From ???@??? Wed Jul 03 13:45:47 2002 Message-Id: From: Marguerite English Subject: [PacificBulbSociety] Re: Homerias Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 13:02:07 -0700 Sorry to be a late responder. I've been off-line for a few days. Try them, you might like them. I would put them with something you already dump leaves or mulch over for winter protection, but otherwise you are are coldest experimenter that I know of! OOps, I mean the experimenter with the coldest climate... Are you still collecting penstemon seeds for folks? I have three small bushes of P. angustifolius which are covered with seeds. I don't think there was a chance of cross pollination because they bloomed much earlier than the others nearby. Are there any bulbs you do grow with Penstemons? Marguerite: Always seeking articles or tidbits for next issue of 'The Bulb Garden' From ???@??? Wed Jul 03 13:45:47 2002 Message-Id: From: Marguerite English Subject: [PacificBulbSociety] Moraea (Homeria) type seed Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 13:16:14 -0700 You are right. I could wait to deadhead, and get a few more blooms. I don't always spend a lot of time in my garden as the summer progresses, because the heat drives me inside, so I don't want them to blow their seed all over my planting beds. I tend to groom them and lose a few blooms towards the end of spring. I do like the little guys, but don't want to spread them out into the Chaparrel, and I think they just might go there. Marguerite From ???@??? Wed Jul 03 20:43:14 2002 Message-Id: From: antennaria@aol.com Subject: [PacificBulbSociety] new member who likes Ariseama Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 23:37:40 EDT Does anyone know whether we're allowed to post photos (JPG files) to this group? Lyn Edwards said the Ariseamas are a favorite. Right now in the garden, I have the asian Ariseama heterophyllum in bloom, an impression giant species, yet hardy here. The shoots didn't appear until mid June! ... just about two weeks ago, then a spectacular, striped and mottled spathe-covered shoot pops out of the ground and grows with amazing speed. I had two shoots, one being a heavy-textured leaf shoot, the other being the flowering shoot, also with one stalwart leaf... the stem about 4' tall, the single leaf with about 15 crinkled and corrugated leaflets suspended from a handle-bar-like leaf-rim, then a leathery-textured spathe, whitish-green inside and veined, with the upturned rat-tail spadix shooting upwards for another 8-10", bringing the plant close to 5' in height! I can post pictures to the group, if pictures are allowed, or if not, I can post a new page to my website if anyone is interested in seeing the plant. For those interested in the genus Arisaema, last year I posted an Ariseama gallery at: http://www.plantbuzz.com/RockGard/Woodland/Arisaema/Arisaema_gal1.htm Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From lynelda@austarmetro.com.au Wed Jul 03 20:28:25 2002 Message-Id: From: "Lyn Edwards" Subject: [PacificBulbSociety] new member Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:20:11 -0300 Hi, thank you for adding me to this list, I have previously known some of you from another list. My basic bulb interests are small cold climate species and the small South Africans though I do try many other things that are likely to grow in this zone. I really love crocuses and galanthus and fritillarias and trilliums and arisaemas and ------- I look forward to a long and happy association with this group, Lyn Edwards Canberra Australia apprx. zone 8 USDA From meenglis@cts.com Fri Jul 05 15:56:10 2002 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20020705152422.00a34710@mailbox2.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Introductions Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 15:36:37 -0700 I love my bulbs, but also grow many other favorites in my gardens. Roses, salvias, penstemons, pinks and native plants are probably the top five, and I collect many specimens of each of them. I, like many of you, find my favorite to be the one that I'm looking at right now! I live in the back country near Descanso, California. My home is in the mountains, and my weather conditions are quite different from most of the San Diego area. I buy trees and shrubs safe for zone 7b, but we do have milder winters some years, so I experiment with more tender plants as well. As you all know, this year is full drought conditions. I use a well, so can only hope that we will have another rainy year before the deep water is affected. I am editor of "The Bulb Garden" , and am also facilitator of our local Sherilton Valley Fire Safe Council, and write a small monthly newsletter for that. And I thought retirement wouldn't be busy! I share my life with my husband, Ray, my three lovely daughters, a lazy dog and an old-lady cat (as far as we can tell, she is 18 years old). I am playing with a project to create a web-site for my Fire Safe information and as a mini-flora for all the native plants in our valley. My daughter, Carole, is taking photographs to place on the site. Marguerite From ixia@dcsi.net.au Fri Jul 05 16:50:04 2002 Message-Id: <009001c22478$27a81ec0$0500a8c0@main> From: "Ixia" Subject: What I grow Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 09:03:16 +1000 I guess most of you will know me even though I haven't had time to post much for ages because of work commitments. My favourites are the South African Iridaceae and my and I have an eternal and passionate love affair with Ixia (swoon). Check out my website : www.angellfire.com/ri/ixia but I grow lots of other species. In the last two years I've built up a BIG collection of Hippeastrums (god forbid!!) and really don't know what I 'm doing with them. Most of them are in poly boxes and I don't have room for them in the garden. Any suggestions appreciated? I am trying to collect EVERY species of Ixia as well as hybrids and also hope to collect as many Lachenalias as I can. They just love my climate year and grow so well for me. I'd be interested in any Lachenalia seed available. Email me privately. Welcome aboard everyone. May PEACE reign forever here with us (except maybe for a few heated bulb discussions?) regards, Bill Richardson Gippsland Australia 0-17c. Beautiful days of Autumn. Ixia site: http://www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia Suite 101 site: http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/bulbs_and_plants From ???@??? Fri Jul 05 20:05:39 2002 Message-Id: <1ad.4ad999a.2a57b5e2@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: [PacificBulbSociety] Allium questions Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 22:54:26 EDT >> I haven't been able to find any info on several batches >> of seed exchange Alliums. Does anyone know anything >> about A. canum, A cillicium, A daghestanicum or >> A. spkareepora? My reference for checking out these names is the new "Nomenclator Alliorum, Allium names and synonyms, a world guide", published by Kew in 1998, the work of 5 noted taxonomists working on the genus Allium, M.Gregory, R.Fritsch, N.Friesen, F.Khassanov, D.McNeal. A. canum - No such name exists, probably a name corruption or misspelling, perhaps from a worn label... probably a corruption from cyaneum or caesium (change a couple letters and you could easily und up with "canum"). A cillicium - this is an old synonym (and misspelled, it should be cilicicum). Allium cilicicum Boiss. = Allium rotundum. Allium cilicicum (of other authors, non Boiss.) = Allium sphearocephalon. Whether you plant turns out to be rotundum of spherocephalon, they are similar allied species, of the "drumstick onion" type, with tight knobs of red or red-violet bloom atop 2' to 4' stems respectively. Both are easily grown from seed and like full sun and well-drained soil. A. daghestanicum - this is a valid species. I'm not sure where you got your seed, but it's back in the seed exchanges these days from my seed donations (although I can't vouch for it's authenticity if it not from my seed, there are lots of imposters around). I got my seed from the extensive allium genepool at the botanical institute in gatersleben Germany, this collection from the Daghestan Botanic Garden. This is a very fine species from the Caucasus, and it's namesake, Daghestan. It has thready foliage and narrow, tight-clumping bulbs attached to rhizomes that slowly build into a largish and very attractive clump... looks like a large A. cyaneum on steroids, but with delicate, airy sprays of pale pink flowers in August. The stems that are about 18" (45cm) long but the plant looks lower because the wire-thin stems gracefully splay sideways. It needs very good drainage. A. spkareepora - certainly a garbled name, that doesn't even come close to any valid allium species name from which to get a hint of what species it might have been before the name corruption. I saw this name listed in last years' NARGS seed exchange, and was amused when I came across it. Heavens knows what it'll actually turn out to be. I hope that helps. Oh, by the way, the total number of species in the genus Allium, using consensus from the 5 contributing authors to the reference I cited previously, is 857 taxa ( 769 species + 88 subspecies). The book lists over 1400 allium species names, with nearly half being synonyms. Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From ???@??? Fri Jul 05 21:07:29 2002 Message-Id: <016c01c2249e$a32f1640$0500a8c0@main> From: "Ixia" Subject: Oops!! Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:38:46 +1000 Dear all, over the years I have collected some of the Massonia species and about 3 years ago I got seed from Silverhill with packets just labelled species No. 1, No.2, No. 3 - No. 3 has flowered and is very prolific and I photographed it but haven't had film developed yet. One of the other two has a bud and I'm waiting to get a photo of the flower. They all have different leaf structures. The 3rd. is still a small plant and may not flower this season. Has anyone grown these from Silverhill who may be able to tell us which species each is? I haven't had time to key them out yet so would appreciate any feedback. regards, Bill Richardson Gippsland Australia 0-17c. Beautiful days of Autumn. Ixia site: http://www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia Suite 101 site: http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/bulbs_and_plants From dejager@bulbargence.com Sat Jul 06 06:18:02 2002 Message-Id: <3D268A44.8B2168C2@bulbargence.com> From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Intro Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 08:12:20 +0200 Dear All, As I may be amongst several participants who I don't know, here a short introduction: Being a 'refugee' of the IBS forum thanks for having me on your list. In the south of France not far from the mŽditerranean, I run a small bulb nursery specialising in bulbs for the mediterranean climate. Amongst the many mediterranean species I have a particular interest in South african wintergrowers including a collection of Moraeas. At the moment we have lifted most of the bulbs.Weather has been very hot and we are now busy repotting, grading and replanting the stock. My primary interest in the list is exchanging information on botanical species and its cultivation. But not in the least, a discussion forum has proved to be a terrific means of getting to know and make friends amongst people with a common interest. I look forward to making new friends and and continue the contacts with those made in the past. Kind regards -- Lauw de Jager BULB'ARGENCE, 30300 Fourques, France RŽgion: Provence/Camargue; Climat: Zone 9a (Mediterranean) Tel: 33 466 016 519 Fax: 33 466 011 245 Web: http://www.bulbargence.com/ "GUIDE POUR BULBES MƒDITERRANƒENS" disponible, prix 10 Euro (Summer autumn planting catalog is available) (Catalogue 'plantation ŽtŽ-automne' est disponible, expedition esp�ces ˆ floraison fin d'ŽtŽ/automne en cours) From ???@??? Sun Sep 22 07:01:34 2002 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20020706213306.00a82100@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Lachenalias et al Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 21:33:06 +1000 Howdy Bill et al, >it's getting exciting here at my place. >My Lachenalias are showing first signs of blooms. This is always a nice time >of the year although it is cold here. I have L. pendula in full flower here in one part of my garden. I think there are buds on three other varieties as well (all L. aloides varieties from memory). >Also I've got some nice little seedlings from last years seed planting's >coming on but I guess I'll have to wait a bit longer for flowers from them. I have a bunch of seedlings coming up from this years sowings as well as last years coming back. Always exciting to see things come back each year. Looking forward to more of my Third Year Fritillaria seedlings reappearing as well. No idea how I am going to repot them as they were sown into a polystyrene box with other genus in rows, making it difficult to get them out without disturbing the surrounding neighbours. I might have to bite the bullet and lift them out when growing so that I have more to hold onto . They were the first bulb seeds I ever sowed and I never did them that way again. All in their own pots now. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From c-mueller@tamu.edu Sat Jul 06 06:18:02 2002 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: Introductions Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 07:08:24 -0500 Hello to all, I would like to introduce myself - I live in Central Texas and hope to learn from occasional bulb discussions that I could adapt to my region - which is certainly not an easy one. Climate is a mixture of winters that occasionally dip to freezing, but once in awhile go to 18 or 19 degrees F. Possibly 400 to 500 chill hours. Summers have nighttime temperatures in the 80's and daytime temperatures usually in the mid 90's but often over 100. Rain might not come for several months, then it might rain and drizzle for 10 days at stretch. There is humidity. The soil is alkaline, needs help, and the city water has salts. But I keep busy in the garden! Because I was raised in South Pasadena, California, a few miles from the Huntingdon Gardens, hope springs eternal in my breast! After I retired, I became a fulltime volunteer in Horticulture at Texas A&M University, then went to work creating e-communications and doing web work. I'm a member of Garden Writers, Herb Society of America, Master Gardeners, NPSOT, and others. I write garden articles on the side, especially for Neil Sperry's Gardens. Special likes are Hippeastrums, rain lilies, herbs, and Mexican plants, roses, pelargoniums, opuntias/nopales, glads and crinums. I'll be interested in hearing tales from California, especially. -Cynthia W. Mueller Zone 8b - 9 College Station, Texas From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Sat Jul 06 07:35:12 2002 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20020707002230.00a0ba00@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Introduction - Paul Tyerman Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 00:22:30 +1000 Howdy All, I posted this recently to one of the other lists and thanks to Mary Sue, who still had a copy of it, I thought I would post a modified copy here in case any of you out there don't know me. I am over on the other side of the world from many of you (figuratively, not literally ) in Australia where it is winter. There are Galanthus and Cyclamens flowering, Helleborus in bud, Fritillarias just poking their noses up and various Narcissus in bud, flower, or just shooting. As people can see from my signature I collect far too many things as I have only a tiny little space to grow them. I am married (my Wife's names is Yvonne) with two kids (their names are Riley (Cavalier King Charles Spaniel) and Elfinraer (Maltese terrier) and they might as WELL be my kids even if they are only dogs) and I live on a small corner block in a suburb of Canberra, the Capital of Australia. Currently we're trying to work out how to double-stack the garden to try to fit more in . I do actually wish it was possible so that I could grow more. Doesn't stop me from buying more bulbs though. There is always SOMEWHERE that I can fit something in. It is starting to get a tad crowded out there though. I am a member of the IBS, RHS and AGS as well as many of the local Canberra gardening groups. Like I said, I collect too many things. It is interesting to see names I know from some of the various Societies and Yahoogroups that I belong to and it will be great to talk to you all about our bulbs over coming months. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From ???@??? Sat Jul 06 17:32:08 2002 Message-Id: <4C7ADD54-9101-11D6-84A2-0003938EDBFA@trump.net.au> From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Frit pudica Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 02:56:21 +1000 Greetings to all from yet another on the other side of the Pacific. I have raised this problem before on another forum without getting any help. I have no trouble raising Fritillaria pudica from seed - the problem is making them grow to flowering size. The leaves seem to grow at a very slow rate and so far, for me, never attain flowering size. I am growing in pots. Does anyone have any advise ? Flowering here mid winter are hoop petticoats, crocus , colchicum, cyclamen and reticulata iris. Regards, Rob Dr R F Hamilton 7 Beach Road Snug 7054 Tasmania, Australia Temperate Marine Climate -equivalent USDA 8-9 Extremes -2 to 39 degrees C. Average rainfall 27.7 inches - fairly evenly spread. From onager@midtown.net Sat Jul 06 18:42:41 2002 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020706174623.00bcc118@pop3.midtown.net> From: Joyce Miller Subject: Introduction Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 18:22:49 -0700 Dear Members, Like Marguerite English, I love my bulbs for themselves but also because they opened the door to me for so many other types of plants. My life is filled with my garden, a small greenhouse housing orchids and early sown spring seeds and a few flasks of germinating orchid seeds. My special emphasis is plant propagation. I volunteer at the University of California Botanical Conservatory, in the orchid section. However, recently I was asked to recommend 50 geophytes offered by Silverhill Seeds that are suitable for our USDA zone 9. I grow California native plants for our Sacramento Chapter of the California Native Plant Society (CNPS). This pleasant task has evolved into volunteering horticultural work in the CNPS Demonstration garden, located at the Old City Cemetery, in Sacramento. Presently, I am working on weed abatement and designing a plan for a 10 foot square plot using California natives. Although I began geophytes with Hippeastrum (Amaryllidaceae), I think my favorite geophyte family is Iridaceae. I share my home with three miniature poodles and a Siamese cat and volunteer with a local hospice group. Life is full. Joyce Miller From ???@??? Sat Jul 06 18:58:57 2002 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20020706184515.00b94f00@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Fritillaria pudica Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 18:52:19 -0700 Dear All, I just ended up sending this message only to Rob because I hit the reply key so am now posting it to everyone. I tried earlier to hit reply to all and it still only had the person who wrote the message filled in. But if I start typing Pac.. on my to: area, my e-mail program fills in the rest of the address so that is what I will do if I can remember. You can all make Pacific Bulb Society part of your address book too. I hope I can change the way this is set up on Monday however. Thanks Joyce for introducing yourself. Mary Sue Dear Rob, So glad you have joined us. I can't get any of my California Fritillarias to bloom except for the one that I have grown from local seed and it does really well for me in the ground. When you posted your question to the Australian group I was going to look up Diana Chapman's article in one of the more recent NARGS journals and in the meantime have been swamped. But I have just done it. In it she said that some of the ones I can't get to bloom need a warmer summer than they are getting here so I have moved them into my greenhouse and am hoping for blooms as a result. About the species in question she writes it is found in an arid area at 2000 meters. Perhaps what it is lacking for you is cold. This year I prechilled one of my native Alliums that is native to the mountains when I chilled my tulips and was rewarded with a long blooming period when usually I just have leaves. Diana is having more success with some of the mountain Calochortus with providing a cold period for them as well and it has really made a difference in germination as well. The California fritillarias are really gorgeous, but many of them are a challenge to grow for even some of our best growers. So if this is the only one you can't get to bloom you are doing well. I once remember Wayne Roderick who has written about them in several publications showing slides of them in the wild. He told us not even to think about wanting some of them because they were impossible to grow outside of their habitat and he didn't want them to disappear from the wild. I know a man in the Bay Area I met at Cal Hort meeting who is studying them in the wild and who says he is very successful with them and perhaps I can get him to join our group. Jane may be able to help. But that's what I'd try. Mary Sue From ???@??? Sat Jul 06 18:52:53 2002 Message-Id: <00cb01c22559$08f3aee0$1400000a@paige> From: "Pacific Rim Native Plants" Subject: Fw: Frit pudica Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 18:53:02 -0700 Hello, Rob. We grow Fritillaria pudica from seed. I sow in fall in a very porous medium -- grit and more grit -- laced with calcium. We do not disturb the seedlings for a couple of years at least. They take three or more years to reach blooming size. In nature, these Frits are stimulated by spring runoff, sometimes even rising through melting snow. But they grow where rainfall is low, so they prefer a neutral to alkaline pH, and they don't want much moisture in summer. This is not the same as no moisture in summer. Before I learned, I would let them dry out completely. Only the most robust made it till fall. Now I water once or twice a month. Don't make a rule, test the medium with your finger. Like many bulbs, young Frits. tend to migrate to the bottom of the pot or frame, and there the medium should be kept coolly damp but not wet. I feed the pots with dilute 20 20 20 + minors several times a season while they are in growth, sometimes adjusting nutrients individually by the color of the leaves. After May, when temperatures here can quickly rise, I keep them under shade cloth if I can, but when I can't, most of them survive. In nature the grasses that help to shelter them are often gone by then. When I repot them for sale in late summer or early spring, I put some commercial bulb food into the potting mix. No doubt there is more to be said. Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca From plants_man@bigpond.com Sat Jul 06 19:21:45 2002 Message-Id: From: "Daryl Geoghegan" Subject: Introduction Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 12:22:00 +1000 Greeting from a cold part of Australia.I love to grow bulbs, as many of you know. I am looking forward to hearing about your experiences in these little treasures. I do grow other plants other than bulbs like trees and shrubs, Orchids and succulents (these fascinate me just as much as bulbs). I applaud May-Sue for starting this group. Good on you Mary-Sue and good luck. All the best for the future. Best wishes, Daryl Geoghegan, President - Australian Bulb Association Wodonga, Victoria, Australia. Mainly Amaryllids Garden - A conservation garden for Amaryllid species and hybrids We grow Clivia, Crinum,Cyrtanthus, Haemanthus, Brunsvigia. Please visit our pages at our home on the web, http://www.users.bigpond.com/plants_man/Home.htm Join in and talk about your bulbs too! Click below to join. Everyone is welcome! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Australian_Bulbs/join or join the Worsleya rayneri growers Forum http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Worsleya_rayneri_growers/join From shayne.willis@bigpond.com Sun Jul 07 07:18:21 2002 Message-Id: From: "Shayne Willis" Subject: [Australian_Bulbs] Introduction Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 18:53:19 +1000 Dear Pacific Bulb Society, congratulations on your all new venture, may I extend to you my best wishes and offer my assistance in helping you in any way I can. As my knowledge of bulbs is limited, I have joined this group in view of extending my knowledge base further. I do grow a range of geophytes, with my favourites being those of a dwarf or miniature nature. Since stumbling into the world of bulbs, a few years ago, I still haven't left Southern Africa and it's enormous range native flora. Australian native bulbs hold a place in my heart, but as yet only a few, have made into my garden. My biggest joys in the garden are seeds. I love watching new life emerge every season, with their promise of things to come. It's the time between the seed and the bloom that gives you a garden life to enjoy. I look forward in participating and hearing about the highs and lows we all experience in our own parts of the world. Regards, Shayne. P.O. Box 97, Wodonga, Vic, 3689. From tonyg@thealpinehouse.fsnet.co.uk Sun Jul 07 07:18:21 2002 Message-Id: <000f01c225a6$dd2b5a80$462186d9@dan> From: "anthony goode" Subject: Intro and Fritillaria pudica Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 12:09:39 +0100 Hello all Living in eastern England, where we have a maritime climate with mediterranean/continental influences, I have been growing dwarf bulbs since 1989. A busy family man, working full time (not with plants), I find bulbs are more tolerant of my erratic garding routine than the alpine plants which I also attempt to grow! I have a large collection of Crocus and also grow many Narcissus, Fritillaria and Iris. I look forward to learning more and hope to be able to contribute occasionally. I do grow and flower Fritillaria pudica, and have raised it to flower from seed. I grow it in pots under cold glass. I too had problems getting it to flower, until I neglected to repot it for two years - then up jumped the yellow flowers. The routine now is to repot every three or four years. In between I remove the compost above the bulbs and replace it each year but I am careful not to disturb the bulbs and the many rice grains around them. The compost I use is roughly 40%loam : 40% sandy grit : 10%peat : 10% Perlite. I allow the pots to dry out completely during the summer. They are kept moist from autumn until early spring. I increase the watering considerably once the shoots appear above ground until the leaves begin to yellow. Hope this helps. Tony Goode. Norwich UK Mintemp -8C www.thealpinehouse.fsnet.co.uk From ???@??? Sun Jul 07 07:18:21 2002 Message-Id: From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Frit pudica Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:12:01 +1000 Mary Sue & Paige, Thanks for your help on Fritillaria pudica. What I forgot to mention was that my seedlings have started into growth in May this year the last month of our autumn. Since winter hit us some are looking particularly seedy - but in one case a secondary shoot has appeared next to the yellowing initial shoot and this looks stronger. I have grown F affinis and biflora for a long time now and they do very well in our climate so would like to get more of your American Frits going. I have a single seedling ( 3rd year) of F atropurpurea seed of which came from SW Native seeds in Arizona . ( Have raised some great Tigridia species from them as well). I once raised to flowering F phaenthera which was a lovely diminutive brick red - then lost the lot a couple of years later. I noticed the first shoot of Erythronium toulumnese today . Regards, Rob From ???@??? Sun Jul 07 07:18:21 2002 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: gladiolus group Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 08:27:48 -0500 We've just heard about a nice discussion group for dahlias - can anyone tell me of a discussion group for gladiolus, especially species and miniatures? Or even the address of a breeder who might have more than the ordinary tall commercial varieties? Cynthia W. Mueller College Station Tx Zone 8b-9 From ???@??? Sun Jul 07 10:36:43 2002 Message-Id: <3D287240.14F367F1@htc.net> From: Lisa and Al Flaum Subject: gladiolus group Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 11:54:24 -0500 Cynthia, Silverhill Seeds in South Africa sells a lot of different kinds of seed. Rachel Saunders has set up a group order system so that the Phyto requirement only costs and extra few dollars. Lisa Cynthia Mueller wrote: > >Or even the address of a breeder who might have more than the ordinary tall commercial varieties? -- Lisa Flaum Waterloo, SW Illinois, USA Min -10F Max 105F (-24C to 40C) Wet winter, dry summer punctuated by gully washers, high humidity, unreliable snow cover, clay soil Member NARGS, IBS, SRGC, AHS, RHS, APS From ???@??? Sun Jul 07 23:45:31 2002 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20020707103427.008dc460@127.0.0.1> From: Jane McGary Subject: Frit pudica Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 10:34:27 -0700 Fritillaria pudica is native within an hour's drive of my home, but I cannot grow it outdoors (this is not an unusual situation in the mountainous North American Pacific Coast). However, it grows extremely well in my unheated bulb frame, probably because it does not get such a long wet season in winter. I grow it much as Tony Goode describes, except that my compost is about equal parts coarse sharp sand, screened loam, and ground white pumice, with both granular and liquid fertilizer, and I repot them every second year instead of the longer interval Tony describes. It is a bit warmer in summer and colder in winter here than at his place, and I know that we have differential success with some other bulbs. F. pudica is very widespread (the widest range of American frits) so the population from which your seeds come may affect success. If I were in Australia, I'd try to get seed from the coastal Californian populations rather than the inland Northwest ones, which experience rather dry, cold winters with snow and very hot, dry summers. Plants should not sprout in fall as Rob Hamilton describes but should wait until late winter. Of the other American frits Rob mentions, F. affinis and biflora are very easy and adaptable, but F. atropurpurea is known to be difficult. The latter is an inland species but not a "monsoon" climate dweller and grows in areas of distinct cold, snowy winters. F phaeanthera is now called F. eastwoodiae, and I have found it has a tendency to be shorter-lived than other species. Some other American frits that are particularly easy to grow are F. liliacea, F. pluriflora, F. agrestis, F. viridea (not very pretty), F. glauca. F. glauca should probably be grown from seed, not from the commercial stock, which I have heard is now virused. Jane McGary NW Oregon From ???@??? Sun Jul 07 11:52:48 2002 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020707093226.00b7bbb8@pop3.midtown.net> From: Joyce Miller Subject: Pitchin' in Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 10:48:07 -0700 Dear Bill and All, With our group being small (at least for the moment) being a lurker is not a good option if we are to hold interest. So, Bill, tell us about Massonia and I will describe the process of recommending bulbs for the UC/D Greenhouse. Ernesto Sandoval, Curator, asked for bulbs that were 'pretty.' As you know, each genera has showy species and dull species. A species named "pallida" would probably not make the cut. The choices would have to be hardy outside in the Davis, California climate. This climate is the same as Sacramento with about 14 inches of annual rainfall between the months of late October through April. Winter temperatures are usually 27 degrees F, with some years down to 18 degrees F. Summer highs can be in the 100 degree range for many days in the summer. In short, USDA Zone 9. Davis' in ground growing conditions are brutal because of high Boron content. Therefore, UC/D will grow the bulbs in pots using its own mix. Steps: 1. Create spreadsheet listing family, genera, species,variations (v), color and height, as given in the Silverhill Seeds catalog and its 'ephemeral' Amaryllidaceae list. 2. Access Greenhouse web site, by genera, for greenhouse holdings. 3. Cross reference web site data to spreadsheet; eliminate duplications 4. Assemble my major bulb reference books: John Bryan's 'Bulbs,' Hobbs and Hatch 'Best Bulbs for a Temperate Climate, RHS 'Manual of Bulbs' and the Goldblatt books on Gladiolia and Moreae. I have other bulb books, but these are my standbys. There was sometimes a one or two USDA zone difference between Silverhill Seeds and John Bryan, with Bryan being the more conservative. 5. A few genera were eliminated at the start e.g. Lachanalia and Ferraria species because of current holdings, my biases, bulbs known to be weak growers in the Sacramento area etc. 6. Check attractive options. Record notes and comments for or against. 7. Prune list to 50 choices. My recommendations are listed below. Albuca batteniana, Androcymbium pulchrum, Anomatheca grandiflora, Babiana angustifolia, B. distacha, B. rubrocyanea, B. vanzyliae, Brunsvigea marginata (with recommendation for added potash) Bulbinella cauda-felis, B. latifolia v doleritica, B. latifolia v latifolia, Clivia miniata citrina, Crocosima pottsii, Daubena aura, Dietes grandiflora, Dilatris pillansii, Eucomis pole-evansii, Freesia corymbosa, Galaxia fugacissima, Geissorhiza imbricata, G. splendissima, G. tubaghensii, Gladiolus carinatus, G. debulis 'Painted Lady',G. floribundus v floribundus, G.orchidiflorus, G. papilio 'Butterfly,' G. watermeyeri, Gloriosa superbus 'Flame Lily,' Hesperantha pauciflora, Ixia dubia, Littonia modesta, Massonia depressa, Moraea fugax, M. polystacha, M. tripetala, M. villosa, Ornithogalum maculatum, Polyxena corymbosa, Romulea sabulosa, R. tabularis, Sparaxis grandiflora v acutiloba, Spiloxine capensis, Talbotia elegans, Tritonia deusta, Veltheimia capensis, Watsonia aletroides, Zantedeschia albomaculata, Of course, as I did my research, I found a few bulbs I could not live without, but which either did not make the cut above, had growing requirements not available at the Conservatory or I was afraid Ernesto would cut them. B. odorata, B. patersoniae, B. sinuata, Bulbinella cauda-felis, Cryptostepahus vansonii, Daubenya aurea, D. namaguana, Galaxia fugacissima, G. ovata, Gethyllis villosa, Hessea stelleris, Ixia maculata, I. viridifloris, Massonia depressa, Strumeria tenella, S. truncata Kind regards, Joyce Miller Joyce E. Miller mailto:onager@midtown.net 859 56th Street, Sacramento, California 95819-3319 USA Zone USDA 9A Summer highs 100+degrees F for several to many days.Winter lows 27 degrees F From dells@voicenet.com Sun Jul 07 13:47:12 2002 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Introduction Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 16:47:25 -0400 Dear All, I live in SE Pennsylvania in Bucks County, Zone 6?. (Cold, wet winters usually not lower than O F; hot, humid summers >90 F) I have been interested in bulbs since I smelled Amaryllis belladonna blooming in my grandfather's garden in Pasadena, California when I was 10 yrs old. For nearly 40 yrs I searched to find out what that bulb was, in the process acquiring and learning how to grow Lycoris squamigera and Crinums in the vain hope that they might be IT. Finally, I got a hold of xAmarcrinum and knew I had found something close from its unforgettable smell. A few years later, I discovered the IBS on the internet and went hog-wild. Now I grow (but don't always bloom) nearly 400 species of geophytes: mostly amaryllids from everywhere - especially South America and South Africa (indoors in winter/ outdoors in summer/ always in pots), and many hardy bulbs with a recently indulged special interest in Crocus and Colchicum. Besides bulbs, I grow a few gesneriads, many vegetables and herbs, and annuals for cutting. I am a school teacher (LD/English) and manage some of the school's gardens. My fourth wife, Mitzi, is a two-yr-old Shih-tzu. Besides the PBS, I belong to the IBS and the American Gloxinia and Gesneriad Society. I have volunteered to run the seed and bulb exchanges for the PBS since I used to do that for the IBS. Please send clean, labeled donations to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA 18928, USA. Welcome to all of you who I knew from other places and previous lives!! I'm particularly glad to hear from Shayne Willis who I lost track of many months ago. Happy, healthy gardening, Dell -- Dell Sherk, SE PA Zone 6. Amaryllids, South Americans, Cyrtanthus, Nerine, Hardy bulbs. From osthill@htc.net Sun Jul 07 15:32:27 2002 Message-Id: From: Lisa and Al Flaum Subject: Yet another intro Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 17:23:23 -0500 Hello all, I started out with a rock garden so that I could grow rosemary outside year-round(it lived for 3 yrs!)I started adding things like crocus and iris and allium, then calochortus and dichelostemma and brodiea, a few species tulips, more crocus and iris and allium. Then I found out about zephyranthes and crinum and South Africans of all sorts. Oh dear. Right now, my primary bulbous interests are Crocus, Allium, Zephyranthes and Crinum. I enjoy testing the hardiness of different bulbs, and I love seed! I plant more narcissus and lilies every year, plus lots of perennials and woodies. 6 years ago, my husband and I bought a small house on 3 acres(climate info in my signature). The property was about evenly divided between grass/weeds and oak-hickery-honeysuckle woods. There is plenty of room both for plants and for the 2 young boys that have the run of the place. It has north, south and east facing slopes and a fenced area for the dogs (4). The property also came with 1 cat, a second arrived this winter, and there have always been 2 in the house. The house cats do not approve of house plants, so I don't have many winter groweres. However, I've been steadily killing the grass/weeds and the honeysuckle and one of these days I'll have a cool greenhouse, too, so I've got to keep planting those seeds. Dell, you've got a volunteer for seed-packing, if you need one. Lisa Lisa Flaum Waterloo, SW Illinois, USA Min -10F Max 105F (-24C to 40C) Wet winter, dry summer punctuated by gully washers, high humidity, unreliable snow cover, clay soil Member NARGS, IBS, SRGC, AHS, RHS, APS From ???@??? Sun Jul 07 23:45:31 2002 Message-Id: <016501c22615$257839c0$0500a8c0@main> From: "Bill Richardson" Subject: Pitchin' in Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:19:35 +1000 Hi Joyce, that is an impressive list of plants. I'm always glad to see one Ixia in there. Interesting to hear that you eliminated i. maculata? What were your findings on this? I will put something together on Massonia but I am no expert on this species. I can relate my own experience on what I have done. Be patient, as I am back at work tomorrow and will have limited time to sit and write, research. But will do it, Joyce. Congratulations on an excellent presentation. Any images of the UC/D greenhouse? regards, Bill Richardson Gippsland Australia 0-15c. Cold, wet days of winter. Ixia site: http://www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia Suite 101 site: http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/bulbs_and_plants From ???@??? Sun Jul 07 23:45:31 2002 Message-Id: <3D290548.C1867394@htc.net> From: Lisa and Al Flaum Subject: [PacificBulbSociety] Allium questions Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 22:21:45 -0500 Hello Mark, Thanks for the information. Do you know of a US source of Nomenclator Alliorum? What information does it provide beyond names? Oh, to figure out what I'm growing! I had wondered if the A. cillicium was perhaps A. cilicicum. I am going to hope that it is A. rotundum. The A daghestanicum came from you via NARGS in 2000/2001. I was so hoping that A. spkareepora was a real thing. It such a great name. The A. canum has bluish 3 edged leaves. It seems quite happy in its pot, so there it will stay till it declares itself. Take care, Lisa Lisa Flaum Waterloo, SW Illinois, USA Min -10F Max 105F (-24C to 40C) Wet winter, dry summer punctuated by gully washers, high humidity, unreliable snow cover, clay soil Member NARGS, IBS, SRGC, AHS, RHS, APS From ???@??? Sun Jul 07 23:45:31 2002 Message-Id: <009b01c22645$0a8e6be0$c5dd8b90@eternalspirit> From: "Shayne Willis" Subject: gladiolus group Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 16:02:14 +1000 Dear Cynthia and Bill, I too adore miniature Gladiolus species, and the select hybrid or two. You can count me in if you find a Gladiolus forum. I'd come back as a "hebe" Gladiolus, if I had a choice. Regards, Shayne. Ph: 02 60597342 P.O. Box 97, Wodonga, Vic, 3689. From jshields104@insightbb.com Mon Jul 08 08:10:14 2002 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020708093939.00a867f0@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Posts & Introductions; new Bulbs Images list started. Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 09:52:56 -0500 Hi everyone, First, my thanks to Mary Sue for setting up this list. I am very grateful to have it available. I have set up a list on Yahoo Groups for bulb images. It is open to anyone who grows and enjoys bulbs. To join, either send me a private e-mail asking to be added to the Bulbs Images list, or send a blank e-mail to: Let me know if you have any problems signing on. I will introduce myself, although I believe I already know many of you. I am interested in all sorts of flower bulbs, both hardy (in USDA zone 5) and tender. We also grow about 10,000 daylily plants, most being seedlings in our breeding programs. This is prime daylily season in Indiana, so we are mostly very busy right now. I am trying to develop a breeding and selection program to find freeze-resistant varieties or hybrids of many "tender" bulbs. Genera of interest include Crinum, Nerine, Haemanthus, Gladiolus,Dierama, Moraea, and probably some other things that have slipped my mind at the moment. I grow a few Clivia, and have started breeding those too. We garden (operate the daylily nursery) on 5 acres (2 hectares) of what was once good farmland. I also have two home greenhouses ca. 11 ft by 24 ft (glass glazing, metal frame). They are unbearably hot in summer (now) so the plants are moved outdoors for the summer every year. I have a momentary surplus of Crinum seeds, so I have set up a page in my web site to sell these. Go to URL = http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Seeds/ to see what I currently have available. The list will change from day to day. Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. +1-317-896-3925 From rmsachs@ucdavis.edu Mon Jul 08 09:41:00 2002 Message-Id: From: "Roy M. Sachs" Subject: I took the hint Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:18:50 -0700 Accustomed as I was in my previous life to writing resumes, I avoid them now...but Mary Sue has done us all such a service that... I worked as a teaching-research horticulturist at UCLA and UCDavis from 1958 through 1996; since then I've devoted full time to a nursery operation outside of Davis, where it's relatively hot and dry (not Saharan) from May through September, and a much smaller planting on the Russian River, about 7-8 miles inland from the Pacific (about 80 miles north of San Francisco), where it is considerably cooler and more humid during that precious May through September interval. The latter is horticultural heaven. I specialize in growing alstroemeria, species and hybrids, but I'll try anything So I have Zantedeschia (many from seed obtained from Silverhill), Crocosmia, Watsonia, Lilies, gladioli (some from Mary Sue), Ixia, some freesia (again from Mary Sue), many amaryllids (some from Les Hannibal's collection and a couple of haemanthus from Joyce)) doing nicely. I have digitized pics for those that want them and a web site, http://e-alstroemeria.hypermart.net, that has several pics. Happy to be on board. Roy From chadschroter@yahoo.com Mon Jul 08 09:56:08 2002 Message-Id: <20020708164911.68091.qmail@web13505.mail.yahoo.com> From: Chad Schroter Subject: A rambling Introduction Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Hello all, My name is Chad Schroter and I garden in Los Gatos California which is a hour south of San Francisco on the inland side of the Santa Cruz Mtns. I have been interested in bulbs nearly all my life, as well as most other plants - perhaps I suffer from Plant Aquisition Syndrome. I have barely enough time to manage my garden along with a family, with a boy almost 3 and two girls 5 and 7. Early on most of my garden reading was UK oriented and only in the last 5 years thanks to the internet have I learned more plants and techniques appropriate to this mediteranean climate. For example I learned the hard way that Large Trumpet Daffodils do not come back here (most of them)I am always looking for "surprises" - the exceptions to the rule plants which are assumed not hardy etc. which will grow here. I had joined this group just before I went on vacation - the old Yahoo Groups one - and so had a lot of catching up to do when I got home :) Chad Schroter From ???@??? Sun Sep 22 07:02:41 2002 Message-Id: <20020708170741.32205.qmail@web13501.mail.yahoo.com> From: Chad Schroter Subject: Lachenalias Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:07:41 -0700 (PDT) I have been growing Lachenalia's for the last 4 years, starting from seed. Most I have tried were easy enough and have flowered. I began with 4in pots from seed and then moved the largest 5 bulbs of each type into 6in clay pots. I only fertilize sporadically, but will be trying to be more methodical in the future. Last year I put all my extra small L. bulbs together into a large (20") but shallow (6") clay pot. These small bulbs grew and flowered as well or better than the large bulbs in the smaller pots. The same potting mix was used for both. About a month ago I was surprised by some relativly huge (Easily twice the size of any I have grown) Lachenalia at the local garden center. L. aloides varients (I can only assume as they were only labeled Cape Cowslip, mostly yellow with spotted leaves) planted 3 per 4" pot in a almost pure peat mix (no sand). The grower is located on the coast here in Half Moon Bay. Because they were well past our regular season here ( mine start to flower in January ) I can only assume they were held in storage and then grown on in a cool greenhouse. I can only guess how they performed so well, perhaps controlled environment and the longer day length ??? Chad Schroter From ???@??? Tues 9 Jul 07:02:41 2002 Subject: Lachenalia To: "Pacific Bulb Society" From: "Ixia" Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 20:33:08 +1000 Chad, nice to find another Lach grower. Your growing methods sound similar to mine except I don't use clay pots, only black plastic and I use very little fertiliser , if anything, I use blood and bone here. They do not need it. My larger bulbs flower every year, flower profusely, seed profusely. Some are almost weedy although I am not complaining about this. Many are grown here in the garden and left in all year. You can buy some species in our supermarkets. They are used as "borders" lovingly nicknamed "soldier boys" as they seem to stand to attention and look lovely in rows. They will even endure our frosts. I have proven this here with mine as each year I bring some out for the winter months and they survive, even high rainfalls. I grow them just as well under cover as long as they get good airflow and light. A very adaptable plant at least with the species I grow. My Lachenalias are showing first signs of blooms. This is always a nice time of the year although it is cold here. Also I've got some nice little seedlings from last years seed planting's coming on but I guess I'll have to wait a bit longer for flowers from them. regards, Bill Richardson Gippsland Australia From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Jul 08 18:46:39 2002 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20020708101644.008dd780@127.0.0.1> From: Jane McGary Subject: Introduction Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 10:16:44 -0700 I didn't think I should write an introduction since my bulb-growing operation is described in such detail in the first Pacific Bulb Society newsletter, but since this forum has members who will not be receiving that newsletter, here is a summary. I live on 10 acres (4 ha) in the foothills of the Cascade Mountains about 30 miles southeast of Portland, Oregon and about 30 miles from Mt. Hood, a not entirely dormant volcano. The elevation here is about 1600 feet (500 m) and the soils are of course volcanic, mildly acidic, and very well drained. Average winter minimum temperature is about 15 degrees F (minus 10 degrees C), but varying quite a lot; most plants in the open garden have survived 5 degrees F (minus 15 C), and most in the bulb frame have survived at least 25 F (minus 4 C). The big problem for bulbs is the wet winters: average 45 inches, almost all as rain, between October and June, with frequent hard frosts in between rainstorms. July through September is normally dry. The natural soil drainage and my berm-style rock garden help, but winter-growing foliage often suffers. The atmospheric humidity is low in summer, resulting in sharp night cooling, so I don't grow many moisture-loving summer bulbs, which I find do not flourish without humidity and constant warmth. I grow about 1,200 taxa of geophytes, mostly in five 40-foot-long, 4-foot-wide ranges of unheated frames, in mesh or clay pots plunged in sharp sand. I'll try almost anything that is likely to be frost-hardy but don't have much success with South African bulbs or with bulbs from wet-summer climates, which are too much trouble when everything else is on a Mediterranean cycle. In addition, there are a lot of bulbs in the open garden, particularly genera that are not attacked by voles and field mice, terrible pests here in the country. Finally, I have a heatable plant room that is part of my house, where I keep tender bulbs over winter and start some of my seedlings. I am the editor of the NARGS journal, the Rock Garden Quarterly, and have now edited three contributor volumes for NARGS and Timber Press, including "Bulbs of North America." I also edit other kinds of books, particularly academic reference books and monographs in the humanities and social sciences, and sometimes in the natural sciences. My BA is in classics (helps with taxonomic names)and MA in comparative literature (helped only with persuading me to forgo the PhD!). I enjoy traveling to see plants and so far have done this in South America (twice), New Zealand, and England. Other hobbies are cooking, collecting Arts and Crafts pottery, and attempting to train my Malamute dogs (2 AKC obedience titles in the past, so it's not impossible, but they'd rather hunt mice). With best regards, Jane McGary From ???@??? Mon Jul 08 12:37:25 2002 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020708120847.00b846b0@pop3.midtown.net> From: Joyce Miller Subject: Ixia & Call for growing info Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:27:44 -0700 Dear Bill and All, Re: Bill's question about why I recommended Ixia dubia over I. maculata on my recommendations to UC/D greenhouse. I can't recall why I chose one over the other, especially since John Bryan(JB) had a photo in 'Bulbs' of I. maculata, but not I. dubia. In general, I was "light" on Ixia selections because JB noted they were not considered frost hardy. Please note, I. maculata was on my personal list. Ernesto and I frequently share seeds. Clever this. Bill, this does not relieve you of sending me info on Massonia. I would appeciation getting growing information for: Daubenya, Gethyllis, Hessea, Massonia and Strumeria species. Joyce E. Miller mailto:onager@midtown.net 859 56th Street, Sacramento, California 95819-3319 USA Zone 9A Sacramento is in the Central Valley of California where temperatures are: Summer highs 100+ degrees F. Winter lows 27 degrees F. From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Mon Jul 08 15:26:36 2002 Message-Id: <10d.14aa38c5.2a5b6822@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Introduction Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 18:11:46 EDT Hello Group: My name is Mark Mazer and live in Gaylordsville (Merwinsville side of town) Connecticut USA. We are in USDA Zone 5 with recorded lows around -26F and highs over 100F. We average 45 inches of rain per year. Snowcover is not reliable. I garden on a sandy south facing acre that sits along and above the Housatonic River, elevation approximately 250' above sea level with views of the valley and the foothills. Married to Freddi with four mostly grown children- one married in Raleigh North Carolina, one in the Navy and stationed in San Diego (just back from a tour of duty in the Arabian Sea - port calls in Brisbane and Hobart-thanks for all that great Aussie support), one is a middle school history teacher and one is entering the second year in college. We have two giant schnauzer dogs, an African gray parrot and a cockatiel. We own a small company that create seating, positioning, mobility and rehab devices for the disabled. In the garden I grow an assortment of the hardy bulbs, Aroids, Trilliums. There is a modest collection of dwarf and slow growing conifers, several rockeries and an old stone barn foundation planted with those buns and mat forming plants favored by rock gardeners. I have a greenhouse, 12'x24,' kept just above freezing throughout the winter where I grow over 150 species of Cape Bulbs- Lachenalia, Ixia, Cyrtanthus, Babiana, Morea, Sparaxis, Geissorhiza, Hesperantha and other non hardy (for me) plants including Aroids, Agapanthus, Clivia, Bamboo, Orchids, Paris, Viryea, some fatties. I have recently started growing some of the California natives offered in Ratko's (the best) Northwest Native Seeds catalog, Calochortus, Frits etc. Visitors are welcome by prior arrangement with the main show in the greenhouse occurring from mid February to late March and the rockeries in April, May and June. Currently, the daylily borders are looking fabulous. I am always interested in trading for new plants or seed. Best regards to all, Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, CT 06755-0142 www.therapyshapes.com Aracea, Paris, Cape Bulbs USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From msittner@mcn.org Mon Jul 08 17:41:04 2002 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20020708160957.00b918b0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Introduction Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:28:39 -0700 Dear All, I know many of you from other lists, but there were names of people I didn't know as well so here is my introduction. I live with my husband and "designer" dog Honey in coastal Northern California. We are about a mile and a half away from the Pacific Ocean but at 800 feet where we have a filtered blue water view of the ocean through the forest. We consider ourselves in a Mediterranean climate as we have mild wet winters (it gets down to freezing but most years the ground does not freeze hard) and dry summers, but being on the first ridge and this far north of the equator we get a lot of rain during the rainy season (average around 50-60 inches). My soil is acidic, nutrient deprived, decomposed sandstone and rock. We have a lot of trees including redwoods and gardening is a challenge. We are blessed with comfortable temperatures in summer, but nights are almost always cool. It can get hot here on the ridge when it may be 15 to 20 degrees cooler down below. If this happens for more than a day or two, the fog rolls in. It is what we call nature's air conditioning. Since I love to grow things from seed and experiment I have found some plants that work: shrubs native to this area, Australian and South African plants, and other Mediterranean basin plants like teucrium, lavandula, and origanum. Ericaeous plants do well so I grow them too. I have been trying to grow South African ericas from seed and it is a lot harder than growing bulbs, but I am getting better at it thanks to some tips from Rod Saunders. I heard Wayne Roderick say one day that he gave up trying to garden in the redwoods and started planting bulbs. His theme is year round bloom without extra water. I was already in love with bulbs, but that got my attention. I started with South African and California bulbs. As I have made friends with other bulb fanatics who have shared seed, bulbs, or enthusiasm for all manner of geophytes I have gotten way out of control. I am trying to switch myself over to learning how to grow what I grow well and not keep seeking more, but it is a struggle. Like others have said my favorites are the ones blooming, but I love Calochortus, Leucocoryne, Romuleas, Oxalis, Brodiaeas, Dichelostemmas, Geissorhizas, Moraeas, Triteleias, Lachenalias, Veltheimias, my native Alliums, Cyclamen... You get the picture. I could go on. I have far too many pots, but also bulbs planted in the ground and raised beds. I have a greenhouse which is measuring 104 at the moment, but it measured in the 50ties last night and we can get 40ties in the summer at night so tropical plants are never happy. I also love looking for plants growing in the wild and am a part of two hiking groups. One I do the planning for and make sure we go to all the good flower places in spring and early summer. My area is very rural and we have many places to walk. This past weekend we spied Lilium pardalinum just opening (in a place the deer couldn't get it) and earlier in the week there was a whole rocky bank covered with Allium dichlamydeum overlooking the ocean to delight me. Lucky for me even though my husband does not like to garden, he likes to go with me looking for plants in nature as does the dog. And he has enjoyed meeting other bulb fanatics which is something else I like to do. I hope more of you will introduce yourselves. Like Paul I am learning more about some people I thought I already knew as they describe their broader garden interests. Mary Sue From ???@??? Mon Jul 08 21:00:13 2002 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20020709125813.00b36100@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Ixia & Call for growing info Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 12:58:13 +1000 Howdy All, I forgot to use the reply to all and delete the private name. This just went to Joyce privately, which isn't much use given I was asking Bill if he knew the name of the pink species . Cheers Paul T. > >>maculata, but not I. dubia. In general, I was "light" on Ixia selections >>because JB noted they were not considered frost hardy. Please note, I. > >Joyce, > >You say that your winter minimums are 27'F in your signature. I have not lost a single Ixia here yet and I have various different species and varieties (although nothing like Bill I'd hazard). We get down to at least -6'C every year, with us usually getting a couple of -8s. If my calculations are correct that puts us at very similar minimums to you. I am happy to send you some bulbs in the off season if you are interested. Definitely I have plenty of Ixia amethystina (later flowering duck-egg blue) and what I assume is a species (name suggestions Bill?) which is intense deep pink with a dark centre. The flower positively glows. This one seeds around the area and they all come true, so I'm assuming that it is a species. I think I have seen a name for it, but have never noted it. I also have a number of different colour forms of ixia hybrids from which I am happy to collect seeds for you if you're interested. Let me know. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From ???@??? Mon Jul 8 23:26:39 2002 Message-Id: From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Joyce's bulbs for Davis Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 23:26:39 Dear Joyce, You may not have time to respond to this before you go, but I am absolutely fascinated with your list, both in what is on it and what is not. Some of those things you have chosen I thought were a bit of a challenge to grow and flower and some of the ones I find really easy and pleasing are not on your list. Perhaps Silverhill wasn't selling those seeds. And I know Davis is different as Roy has pointed out so well in his introduction. I was puzzled about your excluding Lachenalia but I guess it must be because you think it would get too cold. Many of them seem to do fine without so much sun and I remember Don Journet on the IBS forum saying that trees provided frost protection for him in Australia but you could be right. Geissorhiza aspera, monanthos, radians, and inaequalis are all really great plants here provided they get enough water. Sparaxis elegans is very pretty and there are a number of Romuleas I'd want to have although I like the ones you picked. (eg. Romulea monadelpha, Romulea flava for instance). Ixia polystachya (and I wonder if that is the one Paul is talking about since the name he quotes isn't in the Ixia revision is a nice late blooming one) and Ixia viridiflora is certainly a crowd pleaser (one of your alternates.) Hesperantha vaginata is so stunning, but since there is only one place it still grows maybe Rachel doesn't have seed of it either. Moraea aristata may not be available but I'd want it. There are some other low growing Watsonias that are good in containers. The Australian list has been talking about Polyxenas and Massonias. I have not grown too many to flowering yet, but love the ones I have. Massonia pustulata is absolutely wonderful, leaves and flowers. Julian Slade had a picture of a pot of them on the Australian images list that was to die for. Spiloxene canaliculata is another super plant. I suppose it might be too cold for Veltheimia bracteata. That Galaxia you chose (Moraea now) has never ever bloomed for me more than part of a day a year. Mike Mace said he has gotten repeat blooms so it may be they just don't like it here. They are going the way of the rain lilies. I just don't have room for plants like that. What if bloomed on a day I wasn't able to look and and I missed it? I'd have to wait another whole year. Anyway thanks so much for telling us about your project, the careful way you went about selection, and keep us posted on which of the ones they grow turn out to be the best. It must have been really fun deciding. Something like we all do each year when seed lists arrive. Do other members of this group have specific South African bulbs that seed is available for that tolerate a little cold, can be grown in containers, and they would have on a list they could make if someone asked? Mary Sue From ???@??? Tue Jul 09 00:06:19 2002 Message-Id: From: _DrR Hamilton Subject: Frit pudica Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 16:49:35 +1000 To Tony , Diane and Jane, Thanks for your further help with Fritillaria pudica. I looked back on my sowing details and found that last year my seedlings appeared at the correct time in July and August. We have had strange weather this year with a cool moist summer then a very warm dry autumn with sudden onset of severe winter in June. Other seedlings have started in the wrong season - a pot full of 3rd year Trillium albidum seedlings appeared in autumn - they are now a bit sad. Lots of winter flowering bulbs have come early. The F pudica seedlings whose origin I am certain of are from NARGS seedex and are listed below. Fritillaria pudica - Baker Co, Oregon Fritillaria pudica - WA Cascades Fritillaria pudica- Yakima Co WA Jane you mentioned coastal Californian populations would suit my climate best ,so it seem these are probably not the best for me. I realised yesterday I have a pot of 2nd year Frit viridea seedlings up with nice strong second leaves. Cheers Rob From robhamilton@trump.net.au Tue Jul 09 00:06:19 2002 Message-Id: @trump.net.au> From: DrR Hamilton Subject: Introduction Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 16:49:42 +1000 Hi all, I am also bowing to the pressure to provide an introduction. Apologies to those who have read something similar recently - I have done a little editing . I am a country general practitioner having worked in Snug south of Hobart, Tasmania on the D'eauntrecasteaux Channel for 19 years. I have daughters aged 20 and 15, a step daughter aged 10 , a son aged 2 and my wife VIcki and I are expecting twins in 6 days or less!!! We have just built a new home on 3 and a half acres at Margate which is slightly closer to Hobart, but our home is 5 km inland from "The Channel". So the garden has been started from scratch . At this stage we have been planting trees and shrubs - plently of Birches, Oak's , Chestnuts as well as Cupressocyparus Leylandii "Leighton Green" for wind breaks. Have also been planting lots of Cornus, Buddleja , Lilac and assorted other shrubs. I have now commenced experimental planting of winter dormant bulbs in the garden to see how they go. The bulbs are mostly still in pots as we have a clayey soil which will need some work done- the major beds in the garden are built up 30 to 45cm. I have had an interest in bulbs for many years - I have been a member of The Alpine Garden Society for over 20 years to further my interest and more recently have joined The North American Rock Garden Society , IBS , the Arisaema Enthusiasts Group and Australian Bulb Association .I am a retired Australian Orchid Council judge- in the last couple of years I have been unable to find the time to keep my judging skills up to date. My orchid interests are mainly Masdevallia and other Pleurothallids and Maxillaria - the small species. My bulb interests are quite broad . I love Crocus, Colchicum, Erythonium, Fritillaria, Galanthus, Iris. Woodland "bulbs" are a great interest Trillium , Arisaema, Polygonatum - even the proud owner of my first Paris this year - they are a bit of a struggle to manage at present as the only shade we have is the back of the house and a newly constructed shadehouse. My interest in Amaryllids is growing thanks to the contacts established through the IBS - Brunsvigia , Boophane, Haemanthus and similar. I have a reasonable number of Nerines as well. Aracea in general I love - I am even breaking my own rules to try and grow the half-hardy Amorphophallus and Typhonium. (The following was written for Aussie readers but I am leaving it in because Essie is such a great old plantswoman who does have worldwide contacts). I have been privleged for the last 19 years of being able to regularly visit Essie Huxley at Longley ( 200 metres from Woodbank Nursery) . For those that dont know of her she is 85 years young and has been growing bulbs for not quite that long. I visited recently when Colchicums were the main thing to stick in my mind - speciosum by the hundreds including the darker selection Disraeli, speciosum album, autumnale album (single and double), Waterlily and variegatum . She also had in flower "Haemanthus katherinae " which I have found should be Scadoxus multiflorus var katherinae- it was absolutely devine. ( Another example of a bulb out of sync with the seasons.) In my spare time I swim with an Aussie Masters swimming club - at least twice a week. Only started at 45 years old and I'm just a plodder, but I really love it. Rob Dr R F Hamilton , Tasmania, Australia Temperate Marine Climate (USDA 8/9) Average Garden Rainfall 26.7 inches (range 21-36) Temperature extremes -2 C , 38 C. From rkrejzl@hotmail.com Tue Jul 09 06:53:23 2002 Message-Id: From: "Robert Krejzl" Subject: Introduction Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 10:36:08 +0000 Hi, I feel distinctly out of place in such company, but if introductions are in order then here is mine. I first became interested in bulbs when I took myself off to the Chelsea Flower Show at age 12. I liked the display of lilies so much that I went home and returned with enough money to buy one of Jan de Graaf's books. Over the next several decades I grew bulbs when I could, but much of the time lived in flats without gardens (at one point we lived two minutes walk from the Houses of Parliament), did a degree (my undergrad genetics was taught by C R Bantock which had the great benefit of alerting me to the music of Granville Bantock , ran a place for people with autism and generally knocked around before leaving for Australia. After a brief sojourn in the dry tropics where I learnt I was allergic to mango foliage and that possums like Eucharis flowers, we moved to southern Tasmania a little over two years ago. Now we have a half acre plot of free-draining acid sand close to the Channel and I'm slowly building up a collection of bulbs again. I'm presently a member of the RHS lily group, IBS (I think), AGS & AGS fritillary group. Like Rob Hamilton I'm struggling with the difficulty of growing woodlanders in a largely bare garden. As someone who has always had to struggle with the maritime/continental dithering of the UK's climate, Tasmania's mildness is a revelation. Robert Krejzl now Snug in Tasmania Climate USDA 8/9. Climax Vegetation: Dry Sclerophyllous Forest From TheAfricanGarden@aol.com Tue Jul 09 06:53:23 2002 Message-Id: From: TheAfricanGarden@aol.com Subject: Introduction Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 07:22:25 EDT As someone who has always had to struggle with the maritime/continental dithering of the UK's climate, Tasmania's mildness is a revelation. Hi Robert and all, And thanks for giving me the right moment to introduce myself to the list, although I think a few people on the list will know me. I have struggled with the maritime/continental dithering of the UK's climate but I think I've a remedy for the problem, more later. I grow a wide range of South African bulbs, about 800 species in all, on a garden just 17m x 15m, and thats not miles. To this I garden by the inch and not by the yard or acre. See website www.theafricangarden.co.uk and my bulb gallery on http://theafricangarden.netfirms.com. It is a wide range but I concentrate on growing Crocosmia, Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia, and I hold UK National Collections of these. I am also a very passionate grower of Kniphofia, Eucomis, Amaryllis (belladonnas), Crinum and Freesia laxa (Anomatheca), which I breed and have produced a range of pinks and lilacs. I also grow both colvillei and nanus Gladioli. My aim with many species is to grow them successfully in the UK climate and as many of you, get the best display from my garden, which I open for charity from June to September for National Charities. Here in the south-west of the UK we have a warmer climate and we are wetter but our specific problem is that we can have -5C by night and 18C by day and within just 12 hours, if you add rain and ice to the equation then it can be very detrimental to numerous species, especially those grown in pots. During some winters frost penetrates to about three inches so all but the hardiest bulbs have to be planted below 4 inches, indeed I plant Watsonias at 10 inches and have planted Crinum moorei at over two feet. I have learnt to place the bulbs deeper than what many books describe and by talking to many South African bulb specialists, have found that bulbs in habitat are found very deep, and not because of the cold but because of predation, namely baboons; and of course the deeper you plant a bulb, the more stable the soil temperature, which is why mulches are so beneficial, whether they be organic, inorganic or living, and why I can get away with growing such a wide range of species here. I am also very found of the word 'microhabitat' and completely believe that 'thought and placement' are the key words to successfully growing anything. I have found it very difficult to find non-invasive plants (non-bulbs) that will succeed as a groundcover around bulbs here, but perhaps the best to date is the South African Pelargonium grossularoides, which I feel in warmer climes could become quite a weed. It is quite invasive here but rarely shades out even the smaller bulbs. I also annually use Lampranthus as sort of annual sacrificial groundcover as it gets hit by frost but does protect the ground to some extent and of course is so easy to root from cuttings. I'm 37 years old, have spent all of my working life as a horticulturalist, qualifying in Amenity Horticulture at two of the UK finest horticultural colleges, but know look after my disabled wife Colleen on a full time basis which allows me the time to try and successfully grow all the bulbs I enjoy. Swaping and exchanging bulbs and seed with many people. Likes: Gardening, walking our two dogs, sea fishing and music. Dislikes: Not having the time to do everything I want to. All the best, Dave Fenwick The African Garden Plymouth UK From ???@??? Tue Jul 09 12:00:01 2002 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020709094140.00bcbbc0@pop3.midtown.net> From: Joyce Miller Subject: Joyce's bulbs for Davis Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 09:54:14 -0700 Dear Mary Sue and All, >You wrote: Some of those things you have chosen I thought were a bit of a >challenge to grow and flower and some of the ones I find really easy and >pleasing are not on your list. Some of my choices were "book choices" i.e. selection by description with no growing experience to mediate my choices. Lachenalia, Ferraria, Haemanthus and Cyrtanthus were excluded because I had already donated a number of such species to Davis. The high Boron content in Davis soil will not be a problem since they make their own soilless mix. However, the water is a problem. Speaking of Lachenalia, I found a L. viridiflora volunteer in my garden. Heaven only knows how the seed got there because I till this spring I have always had my Lachenalia under cover. >Hesperantha vaginata is so stunning I will be sharing H. vaginata seed from my personal stash. I am biased against Watsonia, but I revealed that to Ernesto so that he can over ride my choices. I was honored to be asked for my opinion and assistance. However, my ego will not be damaged if he doesn't use my choices. As a result of all that work, I have some new packets to sow. Fondly, Joyce From ???@??? Tue Jul 09 13:07:02 2002 Message-Id: <3D2B39EF.DB7876AD@bulbargence.com> From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Introduction Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 21:30:56 +0200 TheAfricanGarden@aol.com a *crit : > I have learned to place the bulbs deeper than what many books describe and by talking to many South African bulb specialists, have found that bulbs in habitat are found very deep, and not because of the cold but because of predation, namely baboons; and of course the deeper you plant a bulb, the more stable the soil temperature, which is why mulches are so beneficial, whether they be organic, inorganic or living, and why I can get away with growing such a wide range of species here. I am also very fond of the word 'microhabitat' and completely believe that 'thought and placement'are the key words to successfully growing anything. Hello Dave, Nice to see you here. I never fail to learn from you. You are so right about planting depth. There are several Moraeas which go to 30-40 cm deep and really thrive in that condition (cool and relative moist during dormancy). Examples are M simulans, setifolia, gigandra, polystachya. They come back every year as mice cannot get at them. But it takes 2-3 years for the corms to get down to that depth. Tell us some more about your experience with this Pelargonium ground cover. Does it disappear in the winter to leave place for the bulbs? Would is do well in our medit conditions? Maybe Mary Sue can upodate us with her experience with the local vetch,(I hope that you can reassure Bill Welch that it has not become an invasive weed!!) Regards -- Lauw de Jager BULB'ARGENCE, 30300 Fourques, France Région: Provence/Camargue; (Climat zone 9a Mediterranean) Site: http://www.bulbargence.com/ "GUIDE POUR BULBES MÉDITERRANÉENS": 100 pages, 400 photos, prix 10 Euro SUMMERCATALOG is available CATALOGUE D'ÉTÉ' est disponible, expedition bulbes est en cours Notre GÎTE de vacances est encore disponible à partir de 31/8/02 (voir photos dans le site) From ???@??? Tue Jul 09 13:56:04 2002 Message-Id: From: TheAfricanGarden@aol.com Subject: Pelargonium grossularoides Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:42:49 EDT Hi Lauw, It grows easily from seed which it produces in very abundant numbers from late July to October, it tolerates dry shade but does best in amongst larger bulbs such as Kniphofia, Crocosmia, larger Gladioli and Moraea alticola; where it shades the soil on a south facing border preventing the soil from drying out. Ideal groundcover for taller summer flowering moisture lovers. Late autumn its seeds can be harvested and it can be cut back to the ground, and will re-emerge during late spring from its roots, has taken -5C in damp to wet ground, so is pretty hardy as well. It will also self-seed itself and one plant has the potential to cover one square yard with ease in good fertile soil in one season from seed. Sadly its flowers are very small. Do you want any seed, a large amount is possible ? It is used in South Africa to treat migraines, I must find out how. Best Wishes, Dave From ???@??? Tue Jul 09 22:47:06 2002 Message-Id: From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Colchicaceaes and Calydorea Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 22:47:06 Dear All, I had a surprise bloom in my greenhouse this week. I know you are supposed to keep seed pots for more than one year if you don't get germination, but I have not always been that patient. If it is something I really want, I will try a 2nd year (or if I know others have had success the 2nd or later years). Robin Attrill has advised giving Romulea more than one year and I have found that to be right. But often I just give up after the first year. I also have a very bad habit of reusing the soil if no seeds come up to pot something else which has meant I have some surprises. I had found a tuber in one of my pots last year that didn't really look like any other tuber I had. I grow Gloriosa and Sandersonia (the latter courtesy of Dirk Wallace and the IBS BX a number of years ago). They are two of the few summer growers I grow. This plant had leaves that looked like a Gloriosa, but the tuber was different. It didn't bloom. I thought it must be a Gloriosa and marked it as such. Today when it bloomed I found I had a Littonia modesta. In my records I have recorded that I started seed of this 3/21/99 and next to the date up I have typed, never. So I guess I need to change that. I am very pleased to have this plant. I experimented with my Sandersonias this year. Someone was selling it as a fall blooming plant at a farmer's market thinking it would be popular as a harvest type flower (and people loved it so they were correct.) It obviously can be manipulated to grow at a different time as I found when Dirk sent all those tubers to the United States and they bloomed well after coming into growth. So I thought I might be able to extend my season. I starting watering one pot in February and one in April. The second pot came up one month after the first and was in bloom as the second was finishing. There wasn't that much difference in timing so obviously something besides water influences growth. Temperatures or light maybe?. As my first Gloriosa also opened today, I have all three in bloom at the same time. Finally I have a story about Calydorea amabilis. Bill Dijk from New Zealand gave seed to the IBS BX. I couldn't find anything out about it and didn't have a clue what to do with it. I started it in spring and didn't get germination until late winter. Once again I have recorded 0 plants as the seedlings didn't survive I thought. The summer before Will Ashburner visited from Australia this unusual plant appeared and I had no idea what it was. It only had a few blooms, but I managed to get a picture of it. Will looked at the picture and told me it was Calydorea amabilis. I lost that plant but not before collecting a lot of seed so I started some more. I read all I could that people had posted about it and it still wasn't clear to me when it was supposed to grow. So I decided to make it a winter grower as that would be more convenient. My plants came up and grew (in my unheated greenhouse)this winter but weren't very vigorous until spring when they came to life. They are blooming happily now. And I'd like to report that I am doing the trick that Sir Peter Smithers told us he had done with Hesperoxiphion peruvianum, a cousin. I am nipping off the spent flower tip each day after it has closed and it is continuing to bloom. I haven't done that in the past with my own Hesperoxiphion and as a result only had a few blooms. My plants look strong this year and I expect they will bloom much longer since I now understand this trick. Do people do this with Herbertias too? Mary Sue From ???@??? Tue Jul 09 22:47:50 2002 Message-Id: From: "Robert Krejzl" Subject: acid sand Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 05:43:13 +0000 I am interested in the term acid sand. What makes it acidic? My background is obviously not geology but I have read quite a lot about various kinds of dirt (natually-occuring growing mediums) and what makes them acidic or alkaline but I cannot imagine an acid sand. Can you elaborate on this? Gosh, I feel like Forrest trying to explain having seen rhododendrons growing on limestone. I'm on a small deposit of sand at the mouth of one of the local rivers. It's very localised; people the other side of the road garden on clay. Most of the local rock seems to be acidic (though there islimestone and some fairly good caves an hour or so away), so the groundwateris acid (as is thetap water which I'd use for irrigation). In digging I haven't come across that many shells so I assume that the sand is mostly river derived. Think of it as being like the sandy soil around Wisley in the UK. Keep the water up throw nutrients at it and it's like a natural raised bed, very free-draining. In fact improbable seeming soils abound. The chalk downland south of London is crowned by pockets of acid woodland for example (the chalk is free-draining and erodes quickly, leaving behind flint nodules which isolate the developing soil from the chalk beneath). Robert From jjingram@adelphia.net Tue Jul 09 22:47:50 2002 Message-Id: From: "Floral Artistry" Subject: Pacific Bulb Society Digest Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 22:47:17 -0700 Glad to see so many familiar faces here. For those who do not know me I will give a brief synopsis. There is more detail on my web page about my background. Right now I am a garden and floral designer in the Los Angeles area. I grow many varieties of plants such as (cover your ears Cathy) palms (love them, all my clients have them), gesneriads (mainly Sinningias and close relatives), orchids (only a few now but in college it was over 200 in my dorm room on a light cart but most were donated to my college at graduation before going to Europe), bulbs (like. Duh..mainly amaryllids - Griffinia, Worsleya, Hippeastrum spp., rain lilies, Crocosmias, Crinum, Cyrtanthus, Canna, misc. "things"), aroids (mostly anthuriums, some Amorphophallus, Alocasia/Colocasia/Xanthosoma, and misc.), tropical foliage plants, flowering tropical trees, and just plain anything not found at most nurseries and overall hard to find plants (as if I'm the only one, right?) I also go to Ohio (Akron/Canton area) twice a year to do the landscaping for my aunt and uncle there. So, I also have a great interest in "tropical" things that just might work there as well. I have added quite a few plants that I have left in the ground last year just to try and see what happened. Granted it was a very mild winter but some things that are still there (with no winter protection at all) are; needle palms, Sabal minor (another native palm), callas ('Green Goddess', aethiopica, and I think the orange one is 'Flame' both flowering at the present time I am told), Acidanthera, Dahlias ('Karma Fuchsiana', 'Bishop of Llandoff', and 'CafŽ au Lait' - first and last have been in the ground for 3 winters now), Ipheion uniflora, Lycoris (6 spp. from Kelly Irwin's Bulbmeister), Agapanthus (common blue CA varieties, 5 plants survived), Crinum powellii and C. p. alba (not a hard one to figure out but I have planted two from Plant Delights - 'Olene' and 'Regina's Disco Lounge' as my nieces name is Regina and it is now her garden to "care for"), Tritonia (from Brent and Becky's I don't remember which varieties off the top of my head), and there are more but I am too blond to remember. Anyway. I also do the Keukenhof type planting. Several years ago I planted 5000 bulbs. Mostly hybrid tulips but also a few crocus (300), Nectoscordum (50), Chinodoxus (1000), Daffs (800 for naturalizing), grape hyacinths M. armeniacum - gotta love that weed - 500), and I think that is about it except for my intense love of peonies. As I can not grow these in SoCa (even though I have told I can and I will try them - let me tell you - in the near future, I only have 6 right now that are new to me), I plant every one that I can get. I must have now 30-35 ones some are duplicates. I love the tree peonies and thanks to a very late spring (or rather a very screwy spring) I got to see all of the tree peonies bloom. They are normally finished before I get there. Many are too young to really flower well yet but a few put out one to three flowers just to show off. The herbaceous ones were not quite ready to pop before I left. I also have planted a whole heck of a lot of different iris. And I will be increasing that planting this fall with more Japanese hybrids and more species (sources are welcome). Well, I think that I have blabbed on here enough for now. OHHHH one more thing. I have a question for Dave - you mentioned about depth of planting increasing hardiness. The two Crinums above that I mentioned I planted this year are in a raised bed. I really planted them deep in the bed (2'+) but they are actually at about soil level in the overall scheme of things. They are about 1-3' in from the edge of the bed (which is merely piled up and not a made bed out of wood or other material). Would you think would be sufficient or should they be deeper? John Ingram jjingram@adelphia.net www.floralartistry.org From ???@??? Wed Jul 10 06:39:37 2002 Message-Id: From: TheAfricanGarden@aol.com Subject: Crinum Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 04:28:24 EDT OHHHH one more thing. I have a question for Dave - John, Your Crinum will do just fine, as there are no hardiness problems with powellii at all, especially in your area. Planting them deep will make sure they get the moisture they require and it'll also keep the roots cooler which as a hardier species they should enjoy. The only problem with planting powellii deep is that it makes them very difficult to move or split with ease once they mature. Best Wishes, Dave From ???@??? Wed Jul 10 06:39:37 2002 Message-Id: From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Wonderful pictures Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:57:58 -0700 Dear All, Rob posted this to the Australian Bulbs list and I am sure that everyone who is on this list is going to want to know about this wonderful resource as well so I am forwarding it to this list. May I suggest that since there are different members on both lists that if you belong to both and you have something really interesting to share that you send the message to both lists. I think Shayne has already done that a few times. Those of us on both can just delete the second message and no one will miss out. Now if only I had the time to look at all of Rod's pictures. As Rob points out we may all want more seeds! Thanks Rob. Mary Sue Hi all, Just in case I'm not the last one to find this. I discovered the link below while looking around Silverhill Seeds- a gallery of photos taken by Rod Saunders. Go to: http://www.ecoport.org/resource.htm Select Picture Databank Then search Author Name Contains Saunders You will then find 380 images most of which are bulbs. Each has a short description. To list a few I really fancied: Stunning Brunsvigia bosmaniae Amazing Gethyllis flowers and foliage- 5 to see Incredible broad twisted foliage of Haemanthus namaquensis- in fruit Heaps of Iridacea , Lachenalia and Shrubs. Hope you enjoy as much as I am. Rob From ???@??? Wed Jul 10 09:11:59 2002 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Moraea Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:26:45 +0200 Dell Sherk a *crit : Did I read correctly that some Moraeas > grow at a depth of 30-40 cm? That would be below the freeze line here. I > guess since they are winter growers it wouldn't work, but I wonder if they > could have their seasons switched to bloom in spring/summer here is USDA zone 6. Dear Dell, In Holland they cultivate wintergrowing Moraeas during their relatively cool summers. But they have to lift the corms every year in Novembre to store them during their dormancy at 26-30° and replant in the spring. Storing them in to ground would not work as it is too cool. Regards Lauw de Jager BULB'ARGENCE, 30300 Fourques, France Région: Provence/Camargue; (Climat zone 9a Mediterranean) Site: http://www.bulbargence.com/ From ???@??? Wed Jul 10 09:11:59 2002 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: Colchicaceaes and Calydorea Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 08:38:35 -0700 Dear everyone, I also have L. modesta that I bought at a nursery (about $6 or 8 for the one bulb!) in July of 00 and it lives in a one gallon plastic pot in the shade. This is a very interesting plant, a relative of the lily. The first year it attained a height of 5 ft and bloomed with perhaps three or four orange bells. This year it is currently eight ft tall and has branched at 5 ft, blooming at the branching with seven bells, and then one bloom a foot out on the branch. The main stem is now at eight feet, the branch at about 18 in, with both continuing to attenuate. This plant grows with a single stem, its dark-green narrow and pointed leaves forming whorls, from a rounded and roughly triangular very hard bulb and must be staked as it is completely herbaceous, the stem firm but not stiff. It is difficult to stake properly and gets very top heavy very fast. Once it gets going, it also grows very fast. To me the bells look Fritillaria-like in shape and F. imperialis orange-colored. I don't know the pollenator but it produced seed last year which I sent the BX or SX. While I did not intend to start any seed myself, I found one left over after the packet went off and so I simply stuck it into the pot with the mother plant and said "good luck". Today I have a little plantlette about 2 or 3 inches tall so apparently the seed will germinate outdoors after 9 or 10 months. Each of the seven flowers now has a seed pod. They ripen slowly and have only 1-3 seeds in each pod but this is a neat plant requiring practically no maintenance and practically no water while dormant and I will send Dell the seeds it produces and you can get it from the SX whenever the time is right. Do try it! Mary Sue wrote: > I had found a tuber in one of my pots last year that didn't really look > like any other tuber I had. I grow Gloriosa and Sandersonia (the latter > courtesy of Dirk Wallace and the IBS BX a number of years ago). They are > two of the few summer growers I grow. This plant had leaves that looked > like a Gloriosa, but the tuber was different. It didn't bloom. I thought it > must be a Gloriosa and marked it as such. Today when it bloomed I found I > had a Littonia modesta. In my records I have recorded that I started seed > of this 3/21/99 and next to the date up I have typed, never. So I guess I > need to change that. I am very pleased to have this plant. From ???@??? Wed Jul 10 11:35:37 2002 Message-Id: From: "Roy M. Sachs" Subject: Fragrance update Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:56:39 -0700 Some weeks ago, May 10th to be exact, on that other forum, Jane McGary contributed the following in the form of a question, >Can anyone explain the mechanism by which flowers emit fragrance at >particular times of day? I know that many flower scents are detectible only >in warm temperatures, regardless of time of day, but others are detectible >primarily in the late afternoon and night, whether the flowers are open or >not. What actually happens, physiologically, when the fragrance is emitted? > >I was moved to ask this because I have some flowers of Gladiolus tristis in >the house right now. Their beautiful scent is not very strong in the >morning, but in late afternoon it suddenly strengthens, even though they >are on cut stems in a room with artificial light as well as daylight. > >Most night-scented flowers seem to be light-colored (like this pale yellow gladiolus) and are said to attract moths as pollinators. Over 40 years ago I worked a bit on release of fragrance from excised corollas of Cestrum nocturnum (night-blooming jasmine)...it turned out that even the excised corollas were most heavily scented in the evenings as if the circadian control was due to mechanisms localized in the coralla and not the entire plant....but we didn't go further. it turns out that there is marvelous stuff going on. In the June 28th issue of Science (vol. 286 p 2327-2329) there is a review of some recent work on fragrance in Clarkia and Antirhinnum. In Clarkia 8 to 12 major compounds were discovered related to their characteristic aroma and the researchers isolated an enzyme in the petals that catalyzes the synthesis of one of linalool (common to many flowers). Now 3 other enzymes have been characterized and they're mainly in the epidermal layer of the petals. The research offers promise for a) understanding the biochemistry and timing of release of aroma from flowers,and b) through genomic studies, which intend to identify the genes controlling the pertinent enzymes, the hope of re-introducing scent to species where scent has been lost in the course of breeding programs (where the primary goals have been bloom size, color and vase life). -- From ???@??? Wed Jul 10 11:54:34 2002 Message-Id: From: TheAfricanGarden@aol.com Subject: Moraea Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 14:45:06 EDT In a message dated 10/07/02 11:37:14 GMT Daylight Time, dells@voicenet.com writes: Dear Lauw and David, First of all, welcome to David! Did I read correctly that some Moraeas grow at a depth of 30-40 cm? That would be below the freeze line here. I guess since they are winter growers it wouldn't work, but I wonder if they could have their seasons switched to bloom in spring/summer here is USDA zone 6. Any thoughts? Hi Dell, I guess the secret would be in the storage of the Moraeas. I don't grow Moraeas but I grow other spring irids, they often need quite high winter light levels to produce flowering sized bulbs on an annual basis. Hence I would try and store them as long as possible through the winter so that the emerging bulbs get as much light as you can possibly give them. However there is often a very fine line between holding back a bulb and dessicating it. Lauw may be able to give you a better idea about storing Moraea. Best Wishes, Dave From ???@??? Wed Jul 10 07:39:26 2002 Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:39:26 To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Message-Id: From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Re: Moraea and how deep to plant Dear All, I find this topic of how deep to plant bulbs very interesting. I recall when we were talking about Nerines on the IBS forum that someone from Tasmania had found in his climate that planting them deeply was very helpful even though you always read to plant them just below the surface. When we were talking about Moraeas, on the other hand, I think it was Dirk who said that if when planting them in containers you plant them too deeply they won't flower. He said they could pull themselves down, but not up. Lauw once observed to me that Moraea polyanthos he always found close to the surface and I often find Moraeas in my raised beds to be close to the surface as well. I am wondering if there is a difference between what you would do in raised beds, containers, and the ground or are we just saying that different species have different needs which would make sense. I have also read that some things will bury themselves so deeply that they never bloom. On the other hand we are told to plant tulips deeply here in California if we have any hope of them returning and other things as well so they won't split into many bulblets. It is confusing. Dell there are summer growing Moraeas you might try. Jim Shields I am sure tries to get seed of all of them. And if you could find seed of Moraea polystachya from a summer rainfall colder area maybe it would work. There are some that bloom in the fall before it gets cold. I have a friend who specializes in Moraea who lives in Ukiah, California and he grows a Moraea polystachya that he says blooms in the spring. He gave me seed and I am eager to see if that is how it will work for me since when it blooms for me it is always fall. I don't know if he has turned it around or if the seed just came from a winter growing population. Related to this same theme Alberto Castillo recently told the Australian forum that he is growing his South American plants in deep pots (5 gallons). Without the extra room for roots they do not set seed as well. It was a very interesting post and I probably need to write and see if I could get his permission to post it here. I'm glad to have you on board David and I hope we won't all overwhelm you with questions in your busy time of year when your garden is at its best. I had thought I would try to limit myself to one post a day as I do not want to dominate this list and I've already done two! One was only partially mine however. I'm out of here. Mary Sue From ???@??? Wed Jul 10 13:18:56 2002 Message-Id: From: Lisa and Al Flaum Subject: Moraea Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 14:25:00 -0500 Dear Dell, Seneca Hill Perennials lists a couple of hardy Moraea. Ellen Hornig grows plants from Silverhill seed. From her spring catalog: Moraea alticola (B) 7.00 Z6 H: to 1m/3ft Sun; wet soil This tall iris-like species with large pale yellow flowers grows in or close to water at altitudes above 2200m/7100ft, and should be reasonably hardy here (we'll be testing that proposition this coming winter). It grows at higher altitudes than the similar M. huttonii, which is hardy in Denver. Moraea huttonii (B) 5.50 Z6? H: to 1m/3ft Sun; wet soil Another denizen of the Drakensberg, with sweetly scented yellow flowers, deep yellow nectar guides and a dark brown to purple splotch on the style crest. Widely distributed in the Drakensberg, in or close to water. I got both of these this spring, but haven't yet worked up the guts to plant them. http://www.senecahill.com/index.html For those who might be interested, Ellen also sells fresh Cyclamen seed. Her list just went up. Lisa Dell Sherk wrote > > guess since they are winter growers it wouldn't work, but I wonder if they > could have their seasons switched to bloom in spring/summer here is USDA > zone 6. Any thoughts? > -- Lisa Flaum Waterloo, SW Illinois, USA Min -10F Max 105F (-24C to 40C) Wet winter, dry summer punctuated by gully washers, high humidity, unreliable snow cover, clay soil Member NARGS, IBS, SRGC, AHS, RHS, APS From Pat.Colville@jameshardie.com Wed Jul 10 14:49:05 2002 Message-Id: <3C86B4DF13CED411A1FC0002B3153BF5117E29@BPFNPNTM001> From: Pat Colville Subject: Pat Colville intro Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 13:02:35 -0700 Hello- and thank you Mary Sue for the invitation to join. I have certainly missed bulb talk. I garden in Pasadena, Calif. attempting to tame a weedy, terraced hillside formed on decomposing sandstone and also tend a few hundred pots of bulbs and such scattered in the level areas. The favorites are mainly amaryllids but numerous bulb experiments are being grown from IBS Exchange and Silverhill seeds. Slowly some of the seedlings are being put into the ground. Rainlilies are currently in bloom- both in the ground and in pots and many daylilies are continuing. Pat Colville From Robin@rpattrill.freeserve.co.uk Wed Jul 10 15:44:42 2002 Message-Id: <001f01c22863$c18530c0$81f5883e@oemcomputer> From: "Robin Attrill" Subject: Introduction Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:46:51 +0100 Dear all, For those who do not know me I am an industrial chemist, I live in Essex, UK and am originally from the Isle of Wight. My horticultural interests are wide but share a common thread in that I aim to grow plants that I like by providing conditions to suit them, rather than choosing plants to suit exisiting conditions. I regard myself as a plantsman, not a gardener - 'garden design' is not a concept that I can identify with - and I never believe the accuracy of the name on any packet of seeds until I see the end result! My main geophyte interests are the genus Romulea, and the cormous Oxalis of southern Africa and the Americas, but I also grow Lachenalias, Leucocorynes, Haemanthus, and a number of other genera under glass including species Pelargoniums. In the open garden I grow other interests including Paeonia, Tulipa, Narcissus and cultivars of Papaver Orientale. In general I like most flowers with the notable exception of double-flowered Snowdrop cultivars! Outside of horticulture my interests are also natural history orientated, particularly the birds, dragonflies and hoverflies of the Isle of Wight. Best Wishes Robin Attrill From ???@??? Fri Jul 12 07:29:55 2002 Message-Id: From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Virus questions Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:29:55 Dear All, Some of you may know about my virused Sparaxis, but here is some background for the others. Alberto Castillo suggested that this very pretty red Sparaxis that had developed white flecks in the flower was probably virused. Although I knew about the virused tulips that had been so popular, it really hadn't occurred to me that could be it since the plants seemed quite healthy, were flowering well, and increasing nicely. So I decided to test a handful of plants that were questionable. I chose a Lachenalia that I was sure was virused since the leaves had the mosaic pattern and they are prone to virus, a yellow hybrid Sparaxis that looked just fine to me but was close to the other, a Romulea that had leaves that looked sick, and a Brodiaea terrestris. The latter had leaves that were more yellow than I remembered when they emerged. It was subtle, but worth exploring. I tossed the Romulea before getting the results as I was sure it had to be virused and the others I isolated. The Romulea was the only one not virused and it was already gone. It must have been cultural with it or maybe it just had not been happy with all the rain we got in November and December. I have removed any Sparaxis that I could find with color break in the petals plus many of the others. I had them all over my garden and I am sure I didn't get them all. And I tossed the Lachenalia and will try to grow it again from seed. But I kept the Brodiaea until I could get seed since I am fond of it and it is so hard to collect seed from the wild as once it stops flowering it just gets lost in the yellowing grass which is much taller than it is. I bought a soil sterilized this year, but have yet to get a piece of sheet metal to go under it so have been cooking soil in the microwave. When you get close to 1000 pots, creating new mixes every year gets prohibitive. I have found that sometimes I have missed some small corms in the mix and once the soil has cooled find them. Those corms look fine which surprises me. They probably aren't and I suppose I'd have to grow them on to find out. What I am wondering is what would happen to my Brodiaea terrestris if I cooked them in the microwave with the soil. If I am going to toss them anyway, I shouldn't have anything to lose. They are supposed to die with wet hot conditions, but I remember reading about a plot that was covered with black plastic to kill weeds before seeding with wild flowers. After several months the plastic was removed and Dichelostemma capitatum that had been there but not seen because of the weeds was coming up. It was sort of a fire effect. High temperatures are supposed to kill viruses. What does everyone think? Am I just making work for myself? Also I was reading Bill Richardson's article in BULBS about ways of dealing with pests with common ingredients available to us like garlic. He can probably give a reference for his site on the web for any members of this group who might not be members of IBS and have read it. In it there is a suggested treatment for virus that I had missed the first time I read it. I had always read there was no solution. Bill, do you know anyone who has tried it and found it works? I am hoping for responses. As you can imagine this has gotten me really freaked. I have been asking everyone I can about viruses and there seems so little concrete information. Even the man who called with the results could not tell me what other plants might be at risk. Mary Sue From edges@mcn.org Fri Jul 12 09:42:37 2002 Message-Id: <200207121550.g6CFoV2D029806@smtp.mcn.org> From: Subject: Introduction Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 15:16:57 GMT Thankyou Mary Sue for turning me on to this valuable list! I am Lily Ricardi,wearer of many horticultural hats for the Mendocino Coast Botanical Gardens in Fort Bragg, CA. 47 acres to the sea. Hat 1--perennial garden--Mediterranean garden--designer, planter, maintaniner. Hat 2--Mediterranean Bulb Collection curator and caregiver. Hat 3--education coordinator. The above isn't enough for a horti-aholic--so I design private gardens in my spare time. My interest in all things bulbous came by way of Mary Sue. Aren't you surprised? She donated our bulb collection. With almost 200 different species. They are displayed in pots during the winter and spring in a display house normally used for Fuchsias and Begonias during the summer. This was the second season and is fast becoming a major interest during the late winter, early spring. Our director Rich Owings was so turned on by geobeauty, he traipsed the board of directors through the collection after each monthly meeting through June. Since I'm not knowledgable about bulbs, I will primarily be lurking and learning. Lily Ricardi From ???@??? Fri Jul 12 17:27:16 2002 Message-Id: From: "Robert Krejzl" Subject: Virus questions Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 23:40:54 +0000 'I am hoping for responses' Seen this site? http://www2.labs.agilent.com/botany/cp/slides/tc/tc.htm I doubt there'd be protocols for the species you're growing but it might be worth a try with something especially desireable. Robert Krejzl Snug Tasmania - USDA 8/9 From ???@??? Fri Jul 12 22:04:11 2002 Message-Id: From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Virus questions Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 22:04:11 Dear Robert and Bill and Diane, Thanks for your responses. I don't think I am going to try tissue culture, but I read that article and it said microwaves were uneven for sterilizing soil. And Bill is probably right, that even if the corm looked all right, it wouldn't be. So perhaps I am wasting my time. I wrote most of this before reading Diane's response, but it was similar to something Jack Elliott wrote a number of years ago about having a plant in his yard that bloomed well and was vigorous, but probably was virused and when he introduced another plant he grew from seed the second plant was affected and showed symptoms. I had remembered that Will Ashburner on the IBS forum had once written that his wife Chris used milk to treat a plant and so I looked it up in my files since I wasn't sure exactly what it was she had done and for what. Will referred to an article in New Scientist magazine espousing the virtues of milk for controlling powdery mildew. A rex begonia that they had brought back from the USA and Chris had nurtured had gotten powdery mildew. In spite of Will's advice to the contrary, Chris decided to follow the description in the article and sprayed the plant and it recovered. I wrote Will to find out more and learned the dilution was one cup per litre (I assume that is water.) He said it washed off easily so you had to respray. When I was searching for anything I could find about viruses I found on the web a very detailed analysis of different viruses published by the Biological Research Information Center (BRIC) of Korea. It listed a whole lot of viruses that affected bulbs and how they were transmitted (usually aphids or mechanically, but sometimes nematodes, thrips, pollen, seed, leaf hoppers, fungus, and even not known.) I transferred this information to my computer and made it into a word table that I could read which took quite a long time as is often true when copying something from the net. If you looked at it, you would be reluctant to grow Alstroemeria as it seems susceptible to lots of different viruses. All my bulbs had the same class of virus and the article said it was transferred by aphids and mechanically. So I wondered if when I cut off seed pods if I could spread it around. It didn't define what mechanically would mean. Still my specific bulbs weren't listed on this table. If anyone wants my table and can get word documents, write my privately and I'll send it. I don't usually see aphids on my Brodiaeas, but am always fighting them on my Alliums. I was interested in reading in Jane's article about her frames that she uses a systemic as she pots to keep the aphids at bay. I know I wouldn't want to do that. I only once used one on Agapanthus that got mealy bugs and got so conflicted I ended up digging them out when the treatement didn't work and I knew I'd have to keep doing it. If Mark is reading, how do you keep the aphids off your Alliums? I try washing them off and using a spray that combines pyrethrum and canola oil which seems to kill them, but they keep coming back. As I have tried to find out more I have learned that Sparaxis are prone to virus and that probably many of the commercial hybrids people buy are virused. I don't think anyone would have thought the one I was growing was virused. In fact Roy Sachs saw it in bloom and thought it was really beautiful the year before and it looked much the same this year. I recently looked at an old picture of one I have had a long time that has always bloomed well and increased and if I looked at the flower carefully there was an interesting pattern break so it could have been virused for years. I know that Bill Dijk sterilizes his soil and I think he uses chemicals. Rachel and Rod Saunders have a huge machine that handles a lot of soil at one time and uses heat. I have reused soil without sterilizing and haven't felt it was much of a problem except for some of those tiny corms like Gladiolus tristis and Geissorhiza inaequalis and Oxalis that can appear unwanted in another pot. But Rod and Rachel made me feel it was important to sterilize if you were going to reuse soil. It seems unclear whether virus can be transmitted by soil, but the whole area is very murky. There probably won't be anybody studying this unless it affects cut flowers, which is maybe why so much is known about Alstroemeria. Mary Sue From ???@??? Tues Jul 16 22:19:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from psmtp.com (exprod5mx3.psmtp.com [64.75.1.143]) by mail.mcn.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id g6GFw8fS006559; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:58:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from source ([204.189.12.62]) by exprod5mx3.postini.com ([64.75.1.251]) with SMTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:58:08 EDT Received: from yahoo.com by listserv.mcn.org with SMTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:58:01 -0700 Message-ID: <20020716155801.65709.qmail@web13508.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:58:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Chad Schroter Subject: Difficulties with Dierama To: pacificbulbsociety@lists.mcn.org In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20020705130451.00b7c8d0@mail.mcn.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sender: Precedence: Bulk X-postinispam-levels: (C:98.0870 M:99.5536 P:95.9259 S:13.4199 ) X-UIDL: ~p_!!-l*"! Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:58:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Difficulties with Dierama I have big clumps of dierama that have been in place since they were seedlings. They flower spectacularly. My soil is sandy (There is a commercial gravel pit nearby), so I need to water them. I used to think that South African plants ought to be in unwatered areas, like Mediterranean or California natives, and when they died, I assumed they died from cold winters. Then I looked at photographs of plants in the wild and discovered some of those plants actually grow on streamsides, so I now plant anything from South Africa near a sprinkler. Dieramas are evergreen, and the foliage is massive, so that they need water year round to maintain it. In Africa, they grow in moist grassland, and don't grow in areas of summer drought. (Information from Dierama The Hairbells of Africa by Hilliard and Burtt) Last fall I dug up a clump that had grown too large for its space, broke it up and put the pieces in a shady pile of leafmould to recover. They are now putting up new growth. I just went out to look at the established clumps, which are currently flowering, to see if they are putting up new leaves too. I can't see that they are, so I don't know when mine actually grow new leaves. The old leaves remain green well past the time that the new leaves grow, so it is hard to notice when that is. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summers, 75 cm rain per year almost all from Oct to May) From ???@??? Fri Jul 12 20:57:45 2002 Message-Id: From: "Bill Richardson" Subject: Virus questions Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 13:45:33 +1000 Dear Mary Sue, As always, Mary Sue, your posts are thought-provoking and interesting and give us all plenty to discuss. The recipe I referred to in my article was for MILK SPRAY, which basically said "dissolve 500 grams of dried milk in 4 litres of water and spray directly onto the leaves, showing signs of virus disease." I have not had need to try this. I know this sounds like a generalisation and I will refer back to my references to see if I can find more about it. But if milk is suggested, I wonder what the properties and components of milk might be that would work? Questions?: How would it work? Why would it work? I wonder if any of our forum team have any experience in this area, who may comment? Here is the link to my article on Suite 101: http://www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia/Insect.html The only virus I have seen here at home has been on Fuchsias which are very prone to virus and I have not wanted to use the chemicals suggested, so I usually destroy the plant and replace it. I have been fortunate enough not to experience virus in any of my bulbs. Most of what I grow has been from seed, probably mainly because what I want to grow is not available in Australia and if they are, usually over-priced by some of the specialist nurseries here that sell bulbs in Australia. I bought Lachenalia bulbs, but mostly seed from Bruce Knight in NSW when he was in business, but Bruce was very fastidious about his plants and I'm not sure if he ever experienced virus. I also got some Agapanthus and a few Hippeastrums from him with no problems. I have a few Romulea from other sources and I grow Sparaxis (none virused). Mary Sue, I used to sterilise all my soil, either in the oven (I wasn't popular with the cook!) or by pouring boiling water through the soil. I have also tried the microwave. Probably the radiation of the microwave would affect your bulbs. I don't bother sterilising soil any more and I still re-use my old mix as like you, the cost is prohibitive when you pot a 1000 or more pots. I don't use chemicals of any kind and I use minimal amounts of blood and bone. Sometimes I use garlic spray or pyrethrum. Often I think the problem is we over-stress our plants with chemicals, over-fertilising, over-watering or whatever and weaken them; and often unseasonable climatic conditions bring on problems, which we are unable to control. Your reference to using black plastic is spot on for killing weeds, and possibly the depth in the ground of the bulbs might have saved them as well as getting rid if the competition of grasses and weeds. The heat generated kills everything close to the top and this would benefit any bulbs that may have been laying dormant for years underground. This has been noted in a lot of South African Botanical Society and IBSA articles and observations made where fire has been through an area and bulbs have appeared that have been dormant for a long time. Mary Sue, it would be interesting and worthwhile to possibly compile our own list of plants where people have had problems with Virus. Yours is a good start. Meanwhile, I will look further into it, but be patient as I work full time and I am also studying at present and time is precious and scarce at my place. Presently, I tend to a lot of my bulb chores in the dark in the mornings before I go to work and arrive home in the dark to jobs and assignments and essays. Hopefully, this will improve when daylight saving starts here and the days lengthen. Life is not dull around here. regards, Bill Richardson Gippsland Australia 0-15c. Cold, wet days of winter. Ixia site: http://www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia Suite 101 site: http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/bulbs_and_plants ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Sue Ittner " To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 12:29 AM Subject: Virus questions Also I was reading Bill Richardson's article in BULBS about ways of dealing with pests with common ingredients available to us like garlic. In it there is a suggested treatment for virus that I had missed the first time I read it. I had always read there was no solution. Bill, do you know anyone who has tried it and found it works? From ???@??? Fri Jul 12 21:58:21 2002 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Virus questions - milk spray Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 21:14:47 -0700 About 30 years ago when I grew bearded iris, growers in the Eastern part of North America would use milk to treat a soft rot of the rhizomes. As far as I know, this is not a problem in Western North America, so I have not had any personal experience with it. That is the only use of milk against plant disease that I have heard of. I did not get in on the very beginning of this discussion as I deleted what I thought were messages about computer viruses, so I hope I don't repeat what has been said. I think if a plant is very vigorous, it might not show symptoms, but if it becomes stressed, the virus then is revealed. In lilies, some very robust ones carry virus without showing it, and insect vectors can spread the virus from them to susceptible ones that readily show symptoms. I haven't heard of virus being spread through soil. Diane Whitehead, Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate From ???@??? Sat Jul 13 06:54:11 2002 Message-Id: From: "Bill Richardson" Subject: Virus questions Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 15:33:47 +1000 Mary Sue, I don't think viruses can be transmitted by soil. I think you are quite safe not to sterilise your soil , it is mainly done to kill weed seeds and other baddies, insects. I wouldn't bother. I found this short reference to virus, which seems to say it all: "As virus diseases cannot be controlled by chemical means, the first line of defence is garden hygiene: dig up and burn any plants suspected of infection. The second precaution is to try to control sap-sucking insects - aphids, jassids and thrips - because these pests spread virus infection from plant to plant. Also eradicate weeds such as rib grass which are often alternative host plants for virus diseases." I think the best advise Mary Sue, is to destroy the infected plants and replace with healthy stock. I'd still like to read more info on the milk though, and was wondering if it had an effect on say, the leaves, foliage of Fuchsias and such-like plants, which are then pruned back. The new growth might be free of virus? regards, Bill Richardson Gippsland Australia 0-15c. Cold, wet days of winter. Ixia site: http://www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia Suite 101 site: http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/bulbs_and_plants From ???@??? Sat Jul 13 06:54:11 2002 Message-Id: From: "Bill Richardson" Subject: Virus questions - milk spray Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 15:38:21 +1000 Diane, I've just thought of the other use I've seen for milk. That is, if you paint a rock with milk, it grows a fungused coating (?) on the rock which gives it that old weathered look. So milk does have some interesting properties? regards, Bill Richardson Gippsland Australia 0-15c. Cold, wet days of winter. Ixia site: http://www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia Suite 101 site: http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/bulbs_and_plants From ???@??? Sat Jul 13 06:54:11 2002 Message-Id: From: "Ixia" Subject: Virus questions Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 16:06:18 +1000 Mary Sue, a reference to something else I found: "If a virus has established, some practices will help to prevent spreading and minimise the damage. Control insects if these are a vector. Wash hands in soapy water and dip knives in trisodium phosphate, Virkon, or milk containing at least 3.5% proteins. The milk must be renewed daily. For all work in the crop, always go in one direction. Have large shoe disinfection trays at the entrance of your property and at every greenhouse entrance. Make enough time for the big clean-up after ending the crop." regards, Bill Richardson Gippsland Australia 0-15c. Cold, wet days of winter. Ixia site: http://www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia Suite 101 site: http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/bulbs_and_plants From ???@??? Sat Jul 13 06:54:11 2002 Message-Id: From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Virus questions - milk spray Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 21:01:40 +1000 At 03:38 13/07/02 +1000, you wrote: >Diane, >I've just thought of the other use I've seen for milk. >That is, if you paint a rock with milk, it grows a fungused coating (?) on >the rock which gives it that old weathered look. >So milk does have some interesting properties? Bill, I've certainly heard of Yoghurt being used for aging rocks and terracotta/stone pots. Lots of moulds appear which lead on to other funguses amnd mosses etc which rapidly discolor and "age" the surface much quicker. With the other discussion of milk for help with viruses..... how exactly DOES milk help? I would assume that all it does is help the plant recover from the virus, thereby removing the symptoms of the virus, rather than actually removing the virus from the plant. It improves the appearance of the plant but doesn't stop the virus then being transmitted by secateurs or sap-suckers etc. Have I got this interpretation right? If that IS the case then I would assume you'd only do this on very special plants that are in a quarantine situation where you know the virus cannot be spread further, otherwise you're likely to "forget" that the plant is virused and you may help spread the virus further? I thought this was worth clarifying. If the milk can actually CURE the virus that is great, but I would have thought that it is just a "cosmetic" fix? I am sorry if this was mentioned earlier. If it was then I must have missed it while I read through the other emails. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From ???@??? Sat Jul 13 06:54:11 2002 Message-Id: From: "Ixia" Subject: Virus questions - milk spray Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 22:08:46 +1000 Paul, we are still trying to ascertain how milk would help. I don't think it would be in a quarantine situation and it certainly wouldn't remove the virus from the bulb. regards, Bill Richardson Gippsland Australia 0-15c. Cold, wet days of winter. Ixia site: http://www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia Suite 101 site: http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/bulbs_and_plants From ???@??? Sat Jul 13 18:19:37 2002 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Virus questions Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 09:12:50 -0700 Mary Sue wrote, >I don't usually see aphids on my Brodiaeas, but am always fighting them on >my Alliums. I was interested in reading in Jane's article about her frames >that she uses a systemic as she pots to keep the aphids at bay. I know I >wouldn't want to do that. I don't routinely add systemic insecticide when repotting. Rather, I sprinkle some on the surface and scratch or water it in when I notice aphids on a particular plant, usually seedlings; they do not seem attracted to mature plants of most species. Because my frames are open on both sides and warm and dry, there are a lot of insect-eating insects in them, which help to control aphids. I am not concerned with it harming birds and animals, because the only birds and animals likely to come in contact with this insecticide are there to eat my bulbs! Using "chemicals" (in the common parlance; in fact, everything's made of chemicals) in this way is a feature of "Integrated Pest Management," a method of applying minimal intervention just when and where it is needed. This assumes that the applicator's reverence for life does not extend to aphids, Botrytis, malaria parasites, etc., at least in the immediate environment. There seems to be some confusion in this discussion between virus diseases and diseases caused by bacteria (e.g., the iris rhizhome rot mentioned) and fungi. The latter can be treated, though not usually eliminated, by superficial means such as applying solutions that alter the chemical environment on the surface of the plant, making it more acidic or alkaline, or alter the physical environment by, e.g., gumming up the pores; milk might do either of these things, resulting in a temporary improvement. Diane Whitehead's observation about virus-tolerant lilies is very well taken and probably applies to many other groups of plants: virus can be present for many years without manifesting as disease symptoms, then appear when the plant is stressed. In addition, there are many, many viruses that exist in organisms without doing obvious harm, and presumably some of these can mutate into injurious viruses from time to time, perhaps to "jump" from one host that tolerates them to another that doesn't. The best form of virus prevention is to grow all your plants from seed, but I don't know of many gardeners to adhere to that strictly. For example, Edward McRae is growing the stock for the Lily Species Foundation from seed, isolated in a nursery on the east side of the Cascades. Jane McGary NW Oregon From ???@??? Sun Jul 14 06:45:15 2002 Message-Id: From: Paul Tyerman Subject: "Natural" insect control Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 00:10:43 +1000 >this is so true and one reason why we shouldn't kill all insects. The good >ones help to keep the status quo. I like your technique of only treating >infected plants, and I'm sure you use it sparingly. Bill, Jane et al, I rarely use sprays in my garden. On rare ocassions I will use a systemic such as Confidor when the aphid populations on the roses get too out of hand. Also the ocassional ant bait granules when a particular plant is affected by the ants farming the aphids. Other than that there is very little needed. I have sat at my computer looking out the window (which seems to happen a lot for some reason ) watching the Fairy Wrens and finches popping in and out of the garden. They land on a branch and you can see them looking carefully around them then they hop up to the rosebud and start munching on the aphids. They tend to keep them pretty much under control. Snails and slugs on the other hand I do need to bait a couple of times a year. I find that a good application of snail bait in autumn really knocks the stuffing out of them. It was suggested to me a couple of years ago that that killed them before they had a chance to lay eggs and go into their dormancy. Since applying bait in autumn I have only needed an ocassional bait in spring when there is a wet spell. I used to apply bait numerous times in spring and never seemed to get ahead. I'm mentioning this here in case it helps others. It certainly has cut down the snail population in my garden and saved both money on baits and any chances of damage to other plants an animals. Also interesting to note.... I had been told that if you used Snail bait then you would kill off any lizard populations in the garden. We have a healthy population of skinks and the ocassional Blue-Tongue so it seems that the autumn method of baiting doesn't bother them as much. There are definitely more of them since I changed the schedule to autumn. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From ???@??? Sun Jul 14 18:56:04 2002 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Pest control Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 08:44:17 -0700 Cathy Craig wrote, >Mechanical methods are a good line of first defense (like cutting >caterpillars and slugs in half with scissors) and provide food for other >garden inhabitants. You can take out a lot of slugs if you can stay up >beyond 11pm. Works if you live in town in a desert. Doesn't help much if you live 6 miles from the nearest town in the next thing to a rain forest. The iron phosphate bait Cathy mentioned is indeed harmless to mammals and birds--don't know about reptiles--and is not at all attractive to my ferociously omnivorous dogs. It is awfully expensive but I have used 3 boxes so far this season and think I have seen some results. I'm hoping they start putting it up in agricultural quantities and keep checking with the farm supply store. As for ants, I don't think they are a problem for bulbs -- but they are a problem for me when I repot the bulbs from the frames in summer, as I often turn out a pot full of healthy bulbs and stinging ants. Maybe, like bee stings, ant stings cure arthritis? However, I have lost several Cassiopes in the rock garden because ants nested under them and carried the soil away from the roots. They like the dense shelter of the plants during the rainy season. I have not seen any damage from pillbugs, although they are present in the environment in small quantities. Cathy mentioned using a castor oil spray for gophers. Has anybody experimented with dipping bulbs in castor oil before planting them? I keep thinking there MUST be a treatment that will make bulbs unpalatable to burrowing rodents (deer mice and voles, here), and I harbor evil suspicions that the Dutch know about one and won't tell us so that we'll buy new tulips every year. I have tried turpentine, which was recommended to me by a grower in the Midwest (didn't work), and Bitter Limene, a product sold for repelling dogs from chewing things (didn't work). What tulips and crocuses I'd have if I could find a vole repellent that was actually ABSORBED by the bulb and didn't dissipate during winter! In fact, if there is someone out there who has the knowledge and facilities to work on it, I'll give her or him a grant to do it. Jane McGary NW Oregon From ???@??? Sun Jul 14 11:26:33 2002 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: "Natural" insect control Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:07:02 -0500 Paul Tyerman wrote of his experiences using snail baits...I, too, have wondered if putting out baits or even poison for snails and pillbugs here in Central Texas would mean killing skinks, lizards and small toads. What do others think? I have a creek on two sides of my house, and feel fortunate to have about 5 species of lizards and skinks, bullfrogs, toads, and treefrogs galore, especially since the emergence of all the news articles about the dearth of amphibians nowdays because of pollutants. Some of the small toads in my garden are no bigger than raisins this time of year. Not many appear to make it to adulthood, tho, so something must eat them in adolescence. Who could tell us if lizards are attracted to "sluggish" slugs or half-dead pillbugs? How long does it take for poisons to finish off pillbugs? What might be the window of time while an insect is still alive but riddled with poison? If one poisons at night, are the intended creatures dead by morning when lizards come out? Another thing that will help us understand just what ingredients are in pesticides used in England, Australia or elsewhere would be if the correspondent could mention the chemical agent in whatever pesticide he/she is using, because brand names seem to be localized. I could, for instance, say that I am using a snail bait that has metaldehyde as the active agent, and everyone in distant areas would have a better understanding... However, even if we are cautious about indiscriminate dosing with chemicals, thank God we have them! Last week a flower stalk appeared on a clump of unknown rainlilies I had grown from seed snatched from a botanical research institute in Grasse, France two years before. The bud seemed a beautiful golden apricot color, and I congratulated myself that after work that day I would be able to have my first view! Imagine when I came up to the clump and found no bloom petals at all, just a greenish gnawed away core with the remains of a style l/4 inch long still sticking out forlornly...I tore up the surrounding aquilegias, inland sea oats, and their litter, but found no grasshopper or large woolly bear caterpillar, two of the most likely suspects. Nature had the last laugh, though. The gnawed remains of the ovary have swelled up, and appear to be forming a seed pod. Better luck next time. I've been putting a little household insect spray on the bloom stalk of my Hipp. mandonii every day, just in case the creature returns. Cynthia W. Mueller College Station, TX Zone 8b-9 >>> ptyerman@ozemail.com.au 07/14/02 09:10AM >>> >this is so true and one reason why we shouldn't kill all insects. The good >ones help to keep the status quo. I like your technique of only treating >infected plants, and I'm sure you use it sparingly. From ???@??? Sun Jul 14 11:26:33 2002 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: "Natural" insect control Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:09:00 -0700 Mechanical methods are a good line of first defense (like cutting caterpillars and slugs in half with scissors) and provide food for other garden inhabitants. You can take out a lot of slugs if you can stay up beyond 11pm. Putting up bird houses also helps a lot. We have a new batch of baby birds (John thinks these little birds we have so many of are tit mice but neither of us is any great ornithologist) just hatched about 5 days ago. Mom and Dad do nothing else from dawn to dark but bring insects of every description into the house to feed the babies. We rarely see any snails any more because we've about wiped them off the property - they are a lot easier to find and remove than slugs are. One doesn't need to use poisen on slugs and snails any longer. The bait containing 1% Iron Phosphate is widely available and my understanding is that it is not a poisen but works as a biological agent. It works on their digestive system and prevents them from feeding and is said not to adversly affect other garden inhabitants. We have plenty of lizards around, but I haven't used any of the slug bait since the delphiniums were babies (about 3 months ago). Personally, I think most animals and insects are too smart to eat stuff that isn't good for them (except of course when there are attractants built into them for specific insects). I customarily spend a couple hours every other day cleaning up the beds and dead-heading. Being out amongst the plants on a regular basis also helps one spot problem pests and they can be dispatched then and there or treated for a large infestation. A spray of straight rubbing alcohol on the hipps and Crinums will take care of mealy bug with two or three treatments as necessary over a period of a week or two. There are many biological agents out there for sale that also work well to break the cycle of a major infestation. They are too expensive to buy all the time and if the chain of a major problem is broken, usually the ambient good insects that inhabit most gardens take care of the day-to-day pests that occur in normally low proportions. John is on the leading edge of ant control but I don't know what he is using just now. If there is sufficient interest, I will ask him and spread the word. We have had nearly 100% success with the gophers (John insists we have gophers and I still think they are moles) using our custom mix containing cold-pressed Castor Oil as the primary agent. If anyone is interested I will post the formula. We have found, like Kelly Irvin, that it absolutely must be sprayed every 90 days to remain effective. We get (when we're lucky) 10 inches of rain a year, almost all of which comes in winter. It is possible that people with more rain must spray more often - although getting the mix watered into the soil and lawn well is a must - so perhaps people with more rain would actually be better off and not need to apply it more often. We have periodic episodes of pill bug infestations (mainly around our sprinkler solenoids/manifolds and under some foxglove plants) that I treat with a chemical toxin but these can be treated in a very localized and short-term (as in one time only) fashion. I don't have a biological for pill bugs. Are there any out there? It would be nice to give up this one poisen for something not so toxic. Cynthia wrote: Paul Tyerman wrote of his experiences using snail baits...I, too, have wondered if putting out baits or even poison for snails and pillbugs here in Central Texas would mean killing skinks, lizards and small toads. What do others think? From ???@??? Sun Jul 14 13:43:58 2002 Message-Id: From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Arisaema heterophyllum - photos Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 15:04:33 EDT As promised, although a trifle late, I have put together a 4-picture gallery of the East Asian Arisaema heterophyllum. After being in bloom for nearly 3 weeks, and after lots of hot weather up to nearly 100 degrees (36 C) for several days, and gusty drying winds, the plant and it's pale green hooded spathe flower looks as fresh today as it did when the flower first opened 3 weeks ago. Please checkout the photos and commentary at: http://www.plantbuzz.com/RockGard/Woodland/Arisaema/im_heterophyllum1.htm ...or goto www.plantbuzz.com and click on the A. heterophyllum link. Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com Received: from psmtp.com (exprod5mx17.psmtp.com [64.75.1.157]) by mail.mcn.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id g6F162qX003631; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 18:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from source ([204.189.12.62]) by exprod5mx17.postini.com ([64.75.1.251]) with SMTP; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 18:06:02 PDT Received: from midtown.net by listserv.mcn.org with SMTP; Sun, 14 Jul 2002 18:05:57 -0700 Message-Id: X-Sender: onager@pop3.midtown.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 17:52:28 -0700 To: "Pacific Bulb Society" From: Joyce Miller Subject: Re: Fragrance update In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Reply-To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sender: Precedence: Bulk X-postinispam-levels: (C:98.5626 P:95.5556 S:13.2070 ) X-UIDL: EdY!!A`:!!>]\"!KA_"! Dear Plantsmen: A local friend who "did" orchids as a teenager and young man told me one of the identification tools for fragrant Cattleya orchids is the time of day they emit fragrance and stop emitting. Amazing things, flowers. Kind regards, Joyce Miller, Sacramento, CA, USA USDA Zone 9A Responses may be sent to: mailto:onager@midtown.net From ???@??? Mon Jul 15 06:24:46 2002 Message-Id: From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Pest control Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:12:41 +1000 Hi all, With the latest "Your Garden" a general Aussie garden magazine, came a sample of "Multiguard" which is Iron- EDTA Complex 60g/kg. It is marketed for Snails and Slugs for " people who care about their pets, native birds, fauna & earthworms and breaks down as nutrients for soil and plants. Regards, Rob From croft@eci.co.za Mon Jul 15 06:24:46 2002 Message-Id: From: "Cameron McMaster" Subject: intro Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:49:51 +0200 Hi All Cameron and Rhoda McMaster here (Stutterheim, E. Cape), and glad to be able to join in, although we are great lurkers too! Cameron has had a great interest in the SA veld all his life, and as a result is very familiar with whatever occurs in the Eastern Cape, especially bulbs & orchids, cycads, aloes, trees, birds and butterflies, with bulbs being the main interest these days. I have had a strong desire to grow bulbs ever since my parents gave me some Sprekelia, Cyclamen and Hyacinths to grow at the age of 12. When I lived in Cape Town I was involved with a small commercial nursery, Rust-en-Vrede, for about ten years up to the mid-eighties, growing winter rainfall species. Cameron and I concentrate on SA bulbs now, mainly from the summer rainfall region. Next April we'll be moving from Stutterheim to a half-acre property in the village of Napier (Western Cape, south of Caledon near Bredasdorp), so that will mean a shift to the winter rainfall species. Our nursery moves with us, seriously condensed! Luckily there are many smallholdings around us, so we will have to hire a patch from a neighbour. What an upheaval - I've been reading about Dash's move (on the AB group) and haven't been comforted. But I'm looking forward to growing the W. Cape bulbs again, and to expanding my clivia collection. Rhoda McMaster From ???@??? Tue Jul 16 11:53:10 2002 Message-Id: From: "Floral Artistry" Subject: Ant contol Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:00:27 -0700 Are there any chemicals, home remedies, natural enemies that I can use to control ants? I think my whole growing area is on top of a HUGE ant hill. Every time I water, all the pots are covered with ants and I usually have a few on me by the time I am done. I want to spray with Liquid Seven but I have used Diazinon in the past. This seems to work for about 2 days and they are back. I think Diazinon merely displaces then and they return. I want something to KILL them with so there is nothing to return. Ants have a tendency to nurture the few aphids, etc. that I have and make them into a huge colony in no time. From ???@??? Tue Jul 16 11:53:10 2002 Message-Id: From: Joyce Miller Subject: Ant contol Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:44:22 -0700 Dear John, A simple ant control is to make a syrup of 1/3 c. sugar to 1 cup water. Boil to dissolve the sugar. Add 1/4 tsp Boric acid. Put in shallow container accessible to the ants. They will carry it back to their nest. Very effective stuff. Since it is poison take precautions to keep the poison from pets and children. Kind regards, Joyce Miller, Sacramento, CA, USA USDA Zone 9A Responses may be sent to: mailto:onager@midtown.net From ???@??? Tue Jul 16 11:53:10 2002 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Moraea Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:45:17 +0200 TheAfricanGarden@aol.com a *crit : I guess the secret would be in the storage of the Moraeas. I don't grow Moraeas but I grow other spring irids, they often need quite high winter light levels to produce flowering sized bulbs on an annual basis. Hence I would try and store them as long as possible through the winter so that the emerging bulbs get as much light as you can possibly give them. However there is often a very fine line between holding back a bulb and dessicating it. Lauw may be able to give you a better idea about storing Moraea. Dear All, I am not accustomed to growing Moraeas outside a mediterranean climate, where I keep the period out of the ground as short as possible. Example: M polystachya is already back in the ground and shoots are poking up. Most other species will be active by the end of august if planted or left in the ground. I cannot see why: "store them as long as possible through the winter so that the emerging bulbs get as much light as". This might be valid for summer growing species, but most wintergrowers will stop growing as soon as day temperatures rise above 25° (77°F). Unless one wants to go through the trouble to inverse the cycle and expose the corms to a warm winter storage and grow them as cool as possible during the summer. Kind regards -- Lauw de Jager BULB'ARGENCE, 30300 Fourques, France Région: Provence/Camargue; (Climat zone 9a Mediterranean) Site: http://www.bulbargence.com/ From ???@??? Tue Jul 16 11:53:10 2002 Message-Id: From: TheAfricanGarden@aol.com Subject: Moraea Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 07:14:43 EDT In a message dated 16/07/02 10:52:34 GMT Daylight Time, dejager@bulbargence.com writes: Lauw wrote: >I cannot see why: "store them as long >as possible through the winter so that the emerging bulbs get as much >light as". This might be valid for summer growing species, but most >wintergrowers will stop growing as soon as day temperatures rise above >25° (77°F). Lauw, I must expand on this. I say that the winter / spring flowers need light. In the case of Tritonia, a winter / spring flowerer, and where annual corms are produced, top sized flowering bulbs will only be produced if the plants get the required amount of daylength and light throughout their growing period. Here on the western side of the UK we get most of the depressions that come across the Atlantic, and our winters can be very dark and gloomy in comparison to some medit countries for instance. I have found by experimentation and a few years of experience with a many SA winter / spring irids, that the later you start them off in the winter the better they do because bulb quality and size is increased by allowing the plants the higher light levels seen from March, April and May. Regarding temperature, as you well know, we rarely get 25C in our summers here so there is little problem regarding to temperature dormancy. Indeed to get the temperature I have to store some bulbs inside the house to extent the dormancy period, eg. Chasmanthe. Hardier winter / spring irids which are grown all year round in the ground here actually do the same thing, they are late to shoot and later to flower. eg. Babiana, Gladiolus and Homeria, these flower in May / June. About a month later than those grown with protection. Obviously, each species has its own requirements but in order to grow a wide range of bulbs you have to generalise and I do think there is a case for what I'm doing under the circumstances, and I also feel the 'light rule' can be applied to most genera of this type, including Moraeas. And yes I agree, it can be very difficult to hold back some of these bulbs and keep them in a dormant or near dormant state. Too warm and they dessicate, too cool and they grow. Best Wishes, Dave (Plymouth UK) From ???@??? Tue Jul 16 11:53:10 2002 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: Ant contol Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 07:02:21 -0700 John is on the leading edge of ant control and is currently using a product called Terro. The active ingredient is borax and it plainly says don't use it near children or pets. He says it is quite effective (against ants). One of the problems with ants is that there are so many and as with most insects it is an ongoing war. (I once saw a nature program that said if it were not for constant human intervention - including that by governmental agencies, commercial farmers, etc. that if we let up, insects would take over the entire world in a matter of a couple of weeks!) You just cannot eliminate them then rest. You must keep after them all the time. The goal seems to be to reduce their numbers and then keep them down to a manageable level through constant vigilance. > Are there any chemicals, home remedies, natural enemies that I can use to > control ants? From ???@??? Tue Jul 16 15:35:42 2002 Message-Id: From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: "Natural" insect control Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:35:42 Dear All, Before we leave the slug, snail topic I have known people to go out at night with a pail of soapy water and drop the snails in as they go. I find slugs harder to collect and was glad to read about something we could use that wouldn't hurt animals and would even improve the soil. This is sold as escar-go or sluggo in the USA and is iron phosphate. One problem with it however is that the birds eat it sometimes before the slugs can get to it. I know it has been called safe for birds. Do you suppose anyone fed it to them to be sure? Mary Sue From ???@??? Tue Jul 16 14:42:27 2002 Message-Id: From: Joyce Miller Subject: Moraea Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:11:21 -0700 Dear Dave and Lauw, Each year, I have brought my spring blooming Iridaceae into the greenhouse in September or October. I have Anomatheca, Lachenalia, Moreae and Lapeirousia. The bulbs bloom well, but the stems are weak, causing the inflorescences to topple. Lachenalia. Could the relatively low light be the cause of the floppiness? If yes, perhaps I could delay the growth onset till mid-February. I had not thought Lachenalia to be frost hardy in our USDA 9A. However, this spring I found a single L. viridiflora blooming in my rock garden. Most amazing. From ???@??? Tue Jul 16 15:42:53 2002 Message-Id: From: Ken K Subject: Moraea Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:16:36 -0700 Joyce Miller wrote: > > I had not thought Lachenalia to be frost hardy in our USDA > 9A. However, this spring I found a single L. viridiflora blooming in my > rock garden. Most amazing. Joyce, Lachenalia viridiflora emerges and blooms very early for me. My Lachenalia are all in pots, which makes them even more susceptible to the cold. I leave most of my Lachenalia outside, exposed to the elements for the winter, although they do look nicer if grown under a simple cover to keep the rain and direct frost from them. I realize that Sacramento is a few degrees colder than here, but from what I understand, their habitat can get fairly cold at night. The 'edge' that the Cape region has on us is that there is less rain than Northern California, with very bright, clear days. I really should put together a raised bed for some of these things this summer. I'll bet some of the Haemanthus, Massonia and Lachenalia would go crazy if unleashed from their pots. Boophone haemanthoides is another one that does well outside for me. You'll have to let us all know when the bulb plantings at UC Davis are in full swing! Ken East S.F. Bay Area, Ca. USDA Zone 9 -2°C to 38°C From ???@??? Tue Jul 16 16:38:06 2002 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: "Natural" insect control Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:13:16 -0700 WalMart also sells it under the name WorryFree (green box) and also they now carry the same thing marketed by Shultz called 'Garden Safe' slug & snail bait in a bag - which makes it a bit more cost effective. Mary Sue, have you found any bird skeletons near the bait? One problem with it > however is that the birds eat it sometimes before the slugs can get to it. > I know it has been called safe for birds. Do you suppose anyone fed it to > them to be sure? From ???@??? Tue Jul 16 16:38:06 2002 Message-Id: From: TheAfricanGarden@aol.com Subject: Moraea Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 19:25:24 EDT In a message dated 16/07/02 22:12:52 GMT Daylight Time, onager@midtown.net writes: > >Each year, I have brought my spring blooming Iridaceae into the >greenhouse in September or October. I have Anomatheca, Lachenalia, Moreae >and Lapeirousia. The bulbs bloom well, but the stems are weak, causing >the inflorescences to topple. Lachenalia. > Could the relatively low light be the cause of the floppiness? > Hi Joyce, It could be low light, it could also be that the bulbs are growing too fast due to higher temperatures and high levels of fertiliser in the compost. It could also be 'humidity' ? I have found on growing them inside a small greenhouse that the best conditions are less humid ones. It's all about getting a balance, right pot size, watering and feeding, compost and environment; and don't worry we're all in the same boat, just don't be afraid to try something different, afterall the answer may be looking straight at you. Try storing a few bulbs a little longer, and once planted water sparingly until growth is seen and then water as required without letting the compost dry out completely; and then post flowering, cut off seed heads before seeds develop and place the bulbs in cool shade, this should keep them green longer which will aid you in keeping the bulbs dormant for longer before having to plant them again. I generally feed with a half strength solution of Chempak 8 (12.5 / 25 / 25) or a weaken tomato feed every two weeks, starting about a month or two post planting. Re. Anomatheca, now correctly Freesia laxa, try sowing them in spring and use them as you would an annual. If sown in February they should flower 6 months later outside and then come back every year thereafter. Best Wishes, Dave (Plymouth, UK) From ???@??? Tue Jul 16 22:28:12 2002 Message-Id: From: "res07umn" Subject: Ant contol Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 20:00:02 -0700 I have a carpenter ant problem and rather than get the folks out to spray, I use a dry mix of half sugar and half 20 Mule Team Borax and sprinkle it around the foundation or wherever. Repeat as needed, but you won't have to do it often. None of my animals touch it. Robin Hansen From ???@??? Sat Jul 27 22:18:22 2002 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Dierama book Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 22:12:02 -0700 Mary Sue, and All, I have a number of dierammas in pots, which dry out between waterings, and they keep blooming. My problem is I've mixed them up, and don't have a decent key. Can you recommend any good references so that I could determine what I have? I know one is probably a dracomontana, and the others are possibly pulcherrimum and pulchellum, or maybe they're hybrids. Thanks, Robin Hansen Dierama, The Hairbells of Africa, by O.M. Hilliard and B.L. Burtt of the Royal Botanic Gardens, Edinburgh, with paintings of each species by Auriol Batten, was published by Acorn Books in Johannesburg and London in 1991. I bought my copy last year at Powell's Books in Portland, Oregon, U.S.A. for $32.50. Diane Whitehead Victoria B.C. Canada From ???@??? Wed Jul 17 08:19:31 2002 Message-Id: From: "Floral Artistry" Subject: Sinningia sellovii interet? Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:52:09 -0700 I have many flower spikes on my Sinningia sellovii (hardy according to Tony) that if there is enough interest, I will send to Dell for the BX. Let me know. Cathy et al, thanks for the info on the ant controls. I will try to get some borax or borax based chemicals to use. I have some creature that has played with one pot of my Cyrtanthus obliquus and out of 14 bulbs, only one is left. It doesn't touch any other bulbs or pots in the whole garden. Go figure. John Ingram jjingram@adelphia.net www.floralartistry.org From ???@??? Wed Jul 17 10:42:38 2002 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20020717103331.00a92820@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Lilium pardalinum Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:42:38 Dear All, A week ago we saw this beautiful flower blooming in the wild near the Gualala River. My husband has just purchased a digital camera and has been spending a lot of time trying to figure it out, but has come up with some nice pictures of the one by the river and one in a large deep container in our garden. I also have one in the ground blooming, but growing near the river is what it wants and the one in the ground is only about a foot tall, maybe 1/6 the size of the ones in the wild. In containers where I am better about watering they are much taller but not nearly as tall as in the wild. I will attach the pictures to the AB_images@yahoogroups.com and to Bulbs_Images@yahoogroups.com Anyone not on those lists who wants to see them can request them privately and I'll send an attachment. We have reduced the files down to a manageable size. Mary Sue From ???@??? Wed Jul 17 22:19:31 2002 Message-Id: From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Difficulties with Dierama Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Dear Chad, I might as well offer my differing experience. That is what I always find so fascinating about sharing. When we bought our house, there were only a few things planted besides the native plants, but Dierama pulcherrimum was one of them. I would expect my climate in Gualala to be very much like yours in Los Gatos except being farther north and on the ridge we probably get more rain in winter and my soil is sandy, very little clay. I loved it when they bloomed and also appreciated the dangling seed pods not recognizing what leaving them to dangle might mean. They were growing in an area we water weekly by sprinklers. I don't think much water ends up getting to most of these plants because we have coast redwood trees and their roots soak it up. At least if I dig in these areas in summer the soil is dry. Even in winter when we get lots of rain, there is never standing water. The Dierama reseeded itself all about my garden. In no time the area around where it was growing looked like it would only be one thing. So I started deadheading each year and removing plants so that I would have only a few clumps to make a statement. Some of the areas of my garden where they appeared get watered once a month in summer. The soil is really dry in those areas!!! Coming from a summer rainfall area they should just hate a wet winter and dry summer, yet they are thriving. A few have appeared where it is shady and they are not blooming as well. Kniphofia on the other hand, as much as I like it, just doesn't get enough water so I have given up on it. I had always seen that doing well close to the ocean so perhaps the fog provides the extra moisture they need. My Dierama plants need a lot of grooming to continue to look well. I cut off all the dead looking leaves. A lot die every year and if you leave them the clumps look unattractive. New leaves keep being produced however and so once the dead ones are cut off at ground level the clump looks green. Perhaps what you need to do Chad is just to plant the seed directly in the ground and not do the transplanting bit. I agree with Dave that transplanting is a bit tricky. They don't ever go totally dormant and it is easy to damage the root. I could probably carefully watch some of my seed pods and collect seed for you to try to plant where you want it. Or try cutting back the dying leaves and see if that improves the appearance. Maybe with a lot of water in summer the leaves don't die back. I usually coddle my seedlings in pots, but Gary Buckley taught me you could plant bulb seed directly in the ground. When I visited his garden in Australia, he had almost no pots. Rhoda, what happens in South Africa during the dry winter to Dierama? Mary Sue From ???@??? Thurs Jul 18 22:19:31 2002 To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Thurs, 18 Jul 2002 08:58:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Chad Schroter Subject: re: Dierama responces Thanks to all who have responded, I feared many were having no problems with these plants, but I am surprised that they are near weeds :), I have not noticed any volunteers as yet, even when I have spread the seeds around myself - it always seems to work this way.... I have been to Gualala - for Indian Guides camp back in the late 60's or early 70's.... I will try to give them more water - I have already been planting the entire seed pots out, without separating the individuals - it does make selection difficult that way.... Chad Schroter From ???@??? Wed Jul 17 22:19:31 2002 Message-Id: From: TheAfricanGarden@aol.com Subject: Difficulties with Dierama Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Hi Chad, Dierama just hate being moved, and are best planted where they can be left undisturbed and I'm sure this has happened to most of us at some time. As has already been said, they love water, and if your climate is very dry then irrigation and mulching is very important. Earlier this year (March) I divided a large Dierama for transporting to Barbados, the foliage was cut right back and the bulbs were cleaned quite hard with a toothbrush. I took the bulbs over there and potted them into a soil based compost and kept them in shade and well watered, knowing that the chance of survival was probably 50/50. I was amazed when within days, shoots were poking through and the bulbs were putting on exceptional growth. So it would seem that Dierama definately benefit from being given both heat, humidity and water post propagation. Best Wishes, Dave Fenwick From ???@??? Thu Jul 18 07:11:38 2002 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20020717201543.00a933e0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Rules for importing seeds Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 07:11:38 Dear All, A number of months ago on the IBS forum some members told us about the USDA draft action plan for noxious weeds. In reading the proposal that Lee Poulsen so kindly made available it seemed there was a recommendation to establish a white or clean list for the United States that would have on it the species of plants allowed into the country. Anything else could not be imported. This would have been a change from the current practice of only prohibiting seeds of plants known to be weeds. I wrote my Congressman and the agencies suggested to protest the white list and also the new enforcement of phytosanitary certificates for any seeds coming into this country. My congressman has responded. He said his office had called USDA/APHIS and learned that they had gotten a lot of calls and letters about the plan. He wrote that people were confusing the Safeguarding Review's recommendation of a "clean list" with the USDA's plans and the USDA was not going to adopt this recommendation and things were going to stay as they were. This reinforces an earlier response that I received directly from the USDA. He also said that he had been told that the APHIS was considering alternatives to requiring phytosanitary certificates for small, non-commercial shipments of seed. This would seem to be very good news for seed exchanges. You all may know this from other lists, but I didn't so am sharing this hopeful news. Perhaps all the protests orchestrated by NARGS and all the letters written will make a difference. Maybe in the future we will be able to share seeds with friends in other countries without worrying about them being seized because there is no certificate. Mary Sue From ???@??? Fri Jul 19 06:14:28 2002 Message-Id: From: Marguerite English Subject: Interesting increase of S.A. bulbs Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:49:43 -0700 I have been repotting Romuleas, Nothoscordums, Babianas and Laperiousas early because I thought I may have lost quite a few when the Big Wind destroyed my greenhouse in January. Almost all the pots had budding flowers or new green shoots scoured out of the tops, and some were even thrown on the floor, either being dumped from the posts or having broken pots with a resulting big mess. I wanted to be sure what was there, so I could re-order some favorites if they hadn't survived. Turns out that while many of them had poor or almost no growth this spring and died back early if they were up at all, they have increased more than the usual pattern here. I guess the attempted murder by the Big Wind caused them to propagate like crazy! (My neighbor's wind device was blown off her roof with a reading of 96 mph, and that was early in the day!) I'll be checking the Ixias and Lachenalias with interest this weekend to see if the same thing is true with them. There are a few unknowns where the big wind mixed up labels , but otherwise the bulbs have done fairly well. Looks as if I'll finally be able to share some of the special ones next year. (When you start with only 1 or 3 of a species, it takes a while to get enough to share!) Marguerite From cyrtanthus@blueyonder.co.uk Fri Jul 19 06:14:29 2002 Message-Id: From: "Dr Paul Chapman" Subject: Overdue Introduction Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:17:55 +0100 Hello Everyone, I've been here more or less from the beginning, having met Mary Sue in Los Angeles in April, but have not yet found the time to write a full intro. The time has now come, but accept my apologies if you find a few crumbs mixed in with the email; I'm trying to eat lunch and write an email at the same time! I'm Paul Chapman, aged 45, with a Ph.D. in the chemical and mineralogical changes that take place as a certain group of rocks in mid-Wales gradually change from rock to soil. I now work full time for the United Kingdom Accreditation Service, the top quality assessment body in the UK, assessing the technical competence of laboratories that test construction materials, such as concrete, aggregates and asphalt. So, growing bulbs is just a hobby, which I have being doing seriously for just over 15 years. I live at the very southern tip of London, UK, 5 minutes drive from open countryside, 35 minutes from the centre of London by train. Because of the heating effect of the city, we are effectively in zone 9a; normal minimum winter temperature -51/4C (231/4F), and that only once or twice a year. Normal maximum summer temperature 301/4C (861/4F), and again only once or twice a year; this year we have had one day of 291/4C (841/4F) and 1 day of 281/4C (821/4F) so far. It seems to be nearly always raining, both winter and summer, but our rainfall actually only averages 65cm (26 inches) a year, although it can occur at any time of year, which seems to vary wildly from year to year. Because of the wet, and the vast numbers of snails and a few slugs, almost all of my bulbs are grown in greenhouses or a cold frame, although some are undoubtedly cold hardy. Nerine and Cyrtanthus are primary interests - I have taken this week as leave from work to repot my Nerines and, with the end of the week nearly here, I am barely half way there yet. The first of my summer/autumn Cyrtanthus came into flower yesterday. I am also particularly fond of Arisaema, Crocus and species Gladiolus, and over the last few years I have also been trying my hand with Hippeastrum. Many other things, particularly South American and South African Amaryllids, seem to find their way into my greenhouses too. Our relatively small garden (20m x 6m) (66 feet x 20 feet) is a mess; all my spare time is spent on "the little weeds in pots" (as my wife calls them) in the greenhouses and frames. I have one 5m x 3m (16 feet x 10 feet) greenhouse, half of which is maintained at a minimum of 101/4C (501/4F) all year; the other half stays just above freezing due to the heat that escapes from the heated part. The other greenhouse is smaller, and completely unheated. I am a member of too many plant societies: RHS and its Lily Group, IBS, NARGS, SRGC, AGS, Hardy Plant Society and its Half-hardy Group, and the Australasian Plant Society, and I am a committee member of the Nerine and Amaryllid Society. Paul Dr Paul Chapman, Wallington, Surrey, UK From ???@??? Fri Jul 19 16:02:22 2002 Message-Id: From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Saving pollen Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 17:42:42 -0500 There was a discussion in the Bulbs_Images list about saving pollen for later use. this is well known to the daylily folks, who do it all the time. It is used by Clivia breeders as well. I have used it on Crinums myself, as well as on daylilies and clivias. The pollen should be ripe and dry. Some pollen, like daylily pollen, will ripen after the anther has been snipped off. Others, like crinum, need to be allowed to complete ripening of the anthers ("anthesis") on the flower before the anther is collected. I dry all pollen over "Drierite" (anhydrous calcium sulfate granules) with blue indicator before storage. Once dried, the anthers can be stored in small ziptop plastic bags or in Eppendorf micro-centrifuge tubes. If you store the pollen in gelatin capsules, the capsules will need to be stored in an air-tight container. Place the pollen containers in the freezer. How long pollen retains its viability in the freezer depends on how well it was dried before freezing and on the genus you are working with. Thoroughly dried daylily pollen stays viable in the freezer for several years. Hippeastrum pollen lasts for about 12 months in the freezer. Hymenocallis pollen lasted only about 6 months for me (many years ago), so I will try that again for Hymenocallis. Clivia breeders maintain that clivia pollen lasts at least several years in the freezer; they further note that ripe clivia pollen is already so dry that it needs no extra treatment before storage. I have used frozen crinum pollen that was about 6 months old with success. You only need to let the pollen (in its container) reach room temperature before using it. An anther in a small (2 inch X 3 inch) plastic ziptop bag will equilibrate to ambient temperature in 5 minutes or less. The contents of an Eppendorf tube may need 10 minutes to reach room temperature. I use a small camels hair artists paint brush to apply the pollen. Jim Shields in central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. +1-317-896-3925 From ixia@dcsi.net.au Sat Jul 20 13:32:38 2002 Message-Id: From: "Ixia" Subject: Getting rain lilies to bloom Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 07:57:35 -0700 Hi Mary Sue, I have copied the emails I posted on the other site to here. They are below, hope they make sense to all. I will write more soon. Feel welcome to make any comments about Rainlilies. Bill Richardson Gippsland Australia Cynthia, I've got a cross called H. texanus x, and also H. martenezii x robustus I've also got H. tubispathus , and syn andersonii, syn rosea, H. tubispathus mixed hybrids, H. brachyandrus, H gracifilius, H. X floryii USA , H. citrianus, H " russell manning".p lus a few others I can't think of at present. I've discussed these names on numerous occasions with Bruce Knight a grower in NSW who I got a lot of mine from and he could give me no indication as to whether any of the names were correct. Obviously the genus is very mixed up with names and he was crossing quite a lot of them to see what he could get in the way of color, size. I have not continued collecting this genus, although I would like to as they are interesting. I'm sure you must be able to hybridise them quite easily. Claire, yes, they are very sporadic flowerers for me too. I always look forward to a rainy day as often a rainlily will flower soon after, even if they were under cover out of the rain. The Z. that is most prolific for me here is minima which flowers like crazy and sets seed like its going out of fashion. Pity it's such a small flower.Although, I must admit, I like and grow a lot of small flowers. Mark, I have grown this one in Gippsland for quite a few years. (Habranthus tubispathus) I got mine as bulbs from a grower in NSW and they flower each year, although not profusely. Here, the flowers last a while. I don't give mine any special treatment. Some I water all year, some get minimal water but this doesn't seem to produce any differences. They seem to multiply well and I look forward to new flowers each year. Bill Richardson From: osthill@htc.net Sun Jul 21 13:32:38 2002 Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 07:57:35 -0700 To: Pacific Bulb Society From: "Lisa and Al Flaum" Subject: Re: Getting rainlilies to bloom Hi all, I grow a lot of different rainlilies (every one I've been able to scavenge!). All are in pots but Zephyranthes candida. I had Z candida in the ground, in a sloping, south-facing rock garden for 3 years. It lived, but did not bloom. In disgust, I moved it to a regular garden bed (clay soil amended with horse manure), and got bloom with the first rain. It has thrived in that area, and blooms in late summer. Everything else is in clay rose pots, taller than wide. The potting soil is 1 part peat basedpotting soil, 1 part composted horse manure and 1 part granite chicken grower grit. The pots are is sun all day and I water every 36-48 hours as long as there is growth. Several species occasionally take a summer rest for no reason I can see(Z labufarosa comes to mind). When this happens, I skip to watering every 3 days at most, until growth resumes. This is probably more water than the bulbs need, but I am really afraid of cooking them in the heat (Todays forecast is for 98F, which is about what its been for the last6 weeks).The pots are outdoors from about April 15 to late November. They are stored in a cool basement completely dry, over the winter. Check my signature for climactic conditions. I can tell you that rainlilies know the difference between a hose and a thunderstorm. I will get an occasional bloom from the hybrids (both Z. and Habranthus). Z. primulina is also a fairly consistant bloomer. However, one rainstorm and ALL the hybrids, plus Z primulina, Z clintae and Z lindleyana bloom at once. Z traubii also bloomed after a rain. Z 'Horsetail Falls', which I think is now Z. huestecana, has only bloomed once this year in may. Z. flavissima is a consistant repeat bloomer in the rock garden at MoBot. Mary Sue, I have read that many hybrids can be convinced to bloom by soaking the pot in water, so that the potting soil is saturated. I have never bothered to try, but could, perhaps, do a little experimenting. Lisa Flaum From: jshields104@insightbb.com Sun Jul 21 13:32:38 2002 To: Subject: Re: Getting rainlilies to bloom From: "J.E. Shields" Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 07:57:35 -0700 Hi all, I grow several types of rain lilies, all in pots. Last year, a rainy summer, they stayed in the greenhouse all summer long and bloomed if I watered them when it rained outside. This year, they are not blooming. I guess I should move them outside and water more. So far this summer, only Zephyranthes lindleyana has bloomed. Outside, I set the pots in saucers. Natural rainfall is still the best stimulus to start bloom. Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana From: ixia@dcsi.net.au Mon Jul 22 13:32:38 2002 Subject: Re: Getting rain lilies to bloom From: "Ixia" Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:03:24 +1000 To: Jim , Mary Sue and all. All of Habs and Zephs are in pots. I don't have room to put them in the ground. Our summer here in Gippsland can be quite hot and our winters can produce frosts and a high rainfall. Although this year, I'm sure Mother Nature doesn't quite know what she is up to. Rainlilies, Habranthus and Zephs don't need any fancy potting mixes. I grow a lot of mine in a good brand seed raising mix and/or potting mix, although I usually do my own mix using some sand. They will grow quite comfortably in this. I have been experimenting for years with different modes of growing - partly keeping some wet through out winter and also drying some off. I haven't seen any great advantage either way and they will flower in a semi-shaded position. They have always been sporadic flowerers - I suggest being prompted by natural rain and other atmospheric pressures and variables produced and created by nature. They usually produce seed after flowering and these grow on quite well in seed raising mix, although the Flotation method is quite successful also to get seed to germinate.They flower more than once or twice during a season. For a number of years, I corresponded with a mutual grower in NSW, Bruce Knight , who was at the time growing a great variety of species and had obtained quite a lot of mixed hybrids from America, as well as species,with some good results. When I first started collecting these and looking for information in gardening books, I discovered a lot of variation in the descriptions and colors given, which was very confusing. Also there was a great variation in names being mixed up and confused with each other. I discussed this with Bruce Knight in NSW by letter over a period of time and he stated that the problem was with the so-called experts writing gardening books who had never sighted these species and relied a lot on second-hand information for their own books. I promptly put these books away and referred to groups like IBS and information and descriptions available in some of their published works. I have not done any work with hybridisation or cross pollination but I am certain from what I have gleaned through the years that they are quite conducive to this process. I have one H. tubispathis which is labelled as large flower which is definitely larger than the normal flower you see. This is either a sport; or a cross with another? This is a genus which needs a lot of sorting out. Habranthus is definitely an interesting species one although I have stated a nice little collection of Zephs lately , which I enjoy growing as well. regards, Bill Richardson From: dejager@bulbargence.com Mon Jul 22 13:32:38 2002 Subject: Re: Getting rain lilies to bloom From: "Lauw de Jager" Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 18:09:12 +0200 To: Mary Sue Ittner a *crit : Please share with us your experiences. Dear All, My experiences are very similar to those of Daryl. Habranthus robustus are planted in pots, kept growing until early July, followed by complete drought until one week before we need flowering. Zephyranthes candida are in full ground and completely submitted to our very dry and hot summer. 2 weeks after a heavy rainstorm the end of August(or thorough irrigation) flowering is massif with several layers of flowers. Before we watered throughout the summer and we got lots of leaves with lots of bulbs bnut por flowering. Regards -- Lauw de Jager BULB'ARGENCE, 30300 Fourques, France From: lynelda@austarmetro.com.au Mon Jul 22 16:53:55 2002 Subject: getting rain lilies to flower From: "Lyn Edwards" Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:53:55 +1000 To: Hello all, thank you Mary Sue for resusitating topics; ,this has been greatly missed. It is a bit hard to get the mind working on rainlilies in the middle of the southern hemisphere winter but I am trying.I don,t grow all that many any more as some do not do well for me. Z.citrina and H.tubispathus both flower intermittently in summer and are welcome when they do, and some others flower just occassionally,e.g. Z.primulina, the ones that flower their head off at just the suggestion of rain here are H.martinezii and the pink form of H.robustus,both really earn their place in my garden, why these do so well when others don,t is puzzling, Lyn Edwards Canberra From: jjingram@adelphia.net Tues Jul 23 13:32:38 2002 Subject: getting rain lilies to flower From: "Floral Artistry" Date: Tues, 23 Jul 2002 16:53:55 +1000 To: I have the following rain lilies and also experiences: Most of my rain lilies are either in the ground in a growing area here in West Hollywood (WH), CA that I don't get a lot of time to look at when I am there watering or in pots in another growing area in Venice, CA at the beach that is much cooler. Both locations are full sun. The WH growing area is good loamy soil and the ones in pots are in a basic commercial potting soil. Both areas are watered about twice a week and usually dry between waterings. All have been acquired last year so this is a new enterprise for me. Habranthus: tubispathus var tubispathus - source? It was commercial I believe but I can't find my notes. It has done well, flowering on and off in a pot for the summer tubispathus var texensis - from Plant Delights - it is on the ground in my growing area and has disappeared (by this I mean the label is gone and until it flowers, I have no idea where it is as I don't keep records of location gracifolius - seeds from BX in March 01 - small bulbs but growing nicely tubispathus - same as gracifolius Zephs: smallii - from Plant Delights - is in the ground in my WH growing area and has increased slightly flowering is minimal if at all. 'Big Shot' - from Odyssey Bulbs - in WH and has increased minimally but has produced a few flowers over last year but none this year have been noticed. 'Grandjax' - from Plant Delights - one or two flowers a year in WH but increase has not been incredible 'Prairie Sunset' - from Odyssey Bulbs - in a pot in Venice - many small offset but no flowers this year so far atamasco -from Plant Delights - label has been lost thus until it flowers again I don't know if I have lost it or not drummondii 'San Carlos' - from Yucca Do - increased nicely with a few flowers. It is in the WH growing area in the ground rosea - from Yucca Do - in the ground in WH and the label has been lost katherinae - from Odyssey Bulbs - in WH in the ground. I can't remember any flowers on it but it has produced a few offsets lindleyana 'Horsetail Falls' - from Odyssey Bulbs - in a pot in Venice. It has flowered really well last year and many seeds have been produced and subsequent bulbs produced but have not flowered. jonesii - from Plant Delights - in WH - label has been lost reginae - in WH - from Plant Delights - plants were lost. Label removed. 'Thad' seed from BX in march 01, small bulbs but growing nicely Labuffarosea - from Brent and Becky's and also from a local wholesaler - those from BB have done well and even flowered some last year. Those from a local supply were in 5 very full 1 gal. pots. The pots were divided and bulbs planted in 4 (qt) pots. They are nearly about 4 flats of pots from these 5 - 1 gals. They were dormant some time but in the last few weeks they have begun to sprout. I did not have them watered while I was on vacation for a week (June 28th to July 5th). Upon returning from vacation, the pots were completely dry. I had watered extensively but they remained dry. I realized that the soil had pulled away from the pot and water was not penetrating. I pushed the soil back around the pot as I was watering. Then watered several times that day. After about 5 days, several of them were in flower. So, I would make the assumption that a dry period followed but good watering, even non-rain water, can induce flowering (at least in this species) macrosiphon - source forgotten - have grown but not flowered a lot, they are in Venice traubii - source unknown - label has been lost carinata - from Japan - just received this last week - but it is in flowering right now. Photo will be posted to the images list soon valles - also just received from Japan and still dormant 'Hakucho' - from Japan 'Ajax' - source unknown - flowered slightly last year grow this year is average in the ground grandiflora - love this one. It is in the ground here in WH and the flowers are a sight to behold. I have only had one flower this year that I know of but I am hoping for more. It will have to be moved soon so I can find out how much it has reproduced when it move it Overall, I have to say that they are not the most florific items in my garden but I also have not taken the time to try to get them to grow, they are there and fend for themselves. I really have not seen too many flowers since last year but some have grown quite nicely. I want to get a larger collection but wonder if it would be worth it as I really don't have the summer rains to get many of them to flower nicely. John Ingram jjingram@adelphia.net http://www.floralartistry.org From: msittner@mcn.org Mon Jul 29 13:32:38 2002 Subject: Re: Getting rainlilies to bloom From: "Mary Sue Ittner " > Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:12:24 -0500 In-Reply-To: <DGEGKCODBCCJPODBINEPGELDCAAA.jjingram@adelphia.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Reply-To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pacificbulbsociety@lists.mcn.org> Sender: <pacificbulbsociety@lists.mcn.org> Precedence: Bulk X-postinispam-levels: (C:98.5626 M:97.0238 P:95.9259 S:21.9294 ) X-UIDL: dgD"!S-3!!l:K!!Of'!! Dear All, Thanks for all the responses about rainlilies. We didn't hear from Dirk, but I know he has been very busy and like Lyn finds it hard to think about rainlilies in the middle of winter when crocuses are much more interesting. But if he has time in the future I am sure his comments will be valuable. It sounds like these are erratic bloomers for many of us. And it sounds like true to their common name, rain does stimulate bloom and watering isn't quite as successful. So that those of us living in Mediterranean climates are at a disadvantage since our rains are when it is cold, not hot. And those with warmer summers have an advantage as well. Probably if we had more people in this group from the southern United States with hot humid summers and rain storms it would be different. I can testify that Lauw's Zephyranthes candida are magnificent since I saw them. It was hard to believe that was the same thing that blooms on rare occasions in my garden and then only briefly. We decided that his climate was hotter, that he had occasional rain in summer when we have none, and the rainy season starts earlier in France than in California while it is still warm. It was interesting to note that Bill R. and Claire (posted on another list) haven't found any difference from a dry winter or a wet winter since that has been true for me as well. They don't bloom either way. People in cold winter climates can just store them in a warmer spot and bring them out when the temperatures are milder. Looking over some of my saved IBS forum notes there was the suggestion that they would not bloom as well in pots as in the ground so it was interesting that some of you who have to grow them that way are still having success. A man from Pakistan suggested you could not get the pots wet enough. He recommended temperatures over 85 F. (29 C.) and monsoon conditions with the plants under water for the very best displays. In fact he told of plants blooming for 3 weeks after they had been submerged. Someone else I didn't save the name of suggested the pots needed to be in saucers of water. Just watering them would not get them wet enough if growing in a pot without a saucer in the sun but if there was a prolonged rainy period they would bloom in a container. I wonder John if you can provide the conditions they need in Southern California to get them to bloom in dramatic fashion. I am amazed at the large number you are trying. You'll have to report again when you have grown them for a longer time which ones turned out well. No one else from Southern California reported so that may be meaningful. I had better luck with them in Stockton where our summers were warmer so Joyce probably has a better chance in Sacramento. I think she gave seed to the IBS BX last year of something we both started at the same time which has never bloomed for me. I think I am going to put my remaining species that have never flowered in my greenhouse and keep them dry for the next three or four weeks and then overwhelm them with water (since we won't have rain.) If they still don't bloom, that may be the end of them as I make room for other things that I can grow better. Shall I just send them all to you Lisa as you were the one who said you were wanting more? Mary Sue From: osthill@htc.net Tue Jul 30 13:32:38 2002 Subject: Re: Getting rainlilies to bloom From: "Lisa and Al Flaum" Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:12:24 -0500 To: Dear Mary Sue, Sure, Mary Sue, offer me more bulbs! Anybody else hear the discussion on Public Radio about greed? Who wants a new car or a 401K when there are bulbs and books to be had? I'm going to try the soaking technique, starting when I get home this evening. The plan is to leave the pots (I am going to use the named hybrids) in water overnight, lift in the am, and see what the next week brings. Its nice to think that all this heat may be good for something. Lisa Flaum From: voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Aug 2 13:32:38 2002 To: "Pacific Bulb Society" From: Diane Whitehead Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 13:34:22 -0400 Subject: Getting rainlilies to bloom OK. Kevin's letter from Florida did it. I went out in the dark and brought in 9 pots of Zephyranthes. It sounds as though they need warm air as well as warm water, and therefore are completely unsuited to Pacific Coast cool dry nights. Well, cool dry days, too, compared to Florida. Having them inside the house won't add much warmth, though, as my electric heat came on this morning (the thermostat is set below 55 F). Yes, I am in the Northern Hemisphere, and this is our summer. Maybe I'll soak them in warm water and then put them on top of the water heater. No sense going to all this effort if they are still too young to bloom, though. The ones sown in 2000 are grasslike, but the ones from 1998 have robust leaves about a half cm broad. Are these likely to be suitable? Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter) From: ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Sun Jul 21 13:32:38 2002 Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 07:57:35 -0700 To: Pacific Bulb Society From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Re: Getting rainlilies to bloom OK.... Now I'm depressed :(. Your H. tubispathus was bad enough, but this Zephyranthes as well. I am positive that I have sown both of these up to three years ago now. Not a flower from any of the dozen or so Zeph and Habranthus pots I have sown. Now I have to wonder what I am doing wrong <sigh!>. Cheers. Paul Tyerman From: msittner@mcn.org Fri Aug 2 13:32:38 2002 To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 13:34:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Getting rainlilies to bloom From: "Mary Sue Ittner " > Dear Kevin, Welcome to our group and thanks for the additional rain lily information. I had forgotten it needed to be warm water although I had been told that in the past. So in three or four weeks warm water it will be for my experiment. Did you use warm water Lisa? Any spikes yet? Mary Sue From: jshields104@insightbb.com Wed Aug 17 13:32:38 2002 To: "Pacific Bulb Society" From: "J.E. Shields" Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2002 13:34:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Getting rainlilies to bloom Hi all, We are in the same situation as Lisa. Our well water is about 55 F, and when we get rain, it is almost always from thunderstorms so the rain is also cold. Afterward, the hot humid weather returns. I moved my pots of rain lilies out of the greenhouse (temps to 120 F in afternoon sun) a week or two ago. I have been setting them in saucers and watering occasionally. There are flower buds on Z. reginae and on Z. longifolia, so far. I think the saucers are critical to getting bloom here. I have been told by field collectors that the rain lilies in Texas often bloom while standing water covers the ground over the bulbs. I've never seen them in situ myself. Jim Shields in central Indiana From ???@??? Wed Aug 14 13:32:38 2002 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20020720072136.00b7a4d0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Getting rain lilies to bloom Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 07:57:35 -0700 Dear All, There was a couple of postings on Jim Shield's new image list about people having trouble getting rain lilies to flower and the question about whether this might be better discussed on a different list, in this case the Great Lakes list. It makes me wish we were all in one place. Not everyone has time to subscribe to all of the lists. But I think that this topic is an interesting one. In my travels over and over again people would tell me how much they enjoyed the topic of the week on the IBS forum and how much they missed it. So I am proposing this as the question of the week. Please report in if you grow rain lilies and tell us where you live, briefly about your climate and if they bloom for you and for how long. Feel free to distinguish species as well. I'll post this to the Australian list and maybe Jim can send it to the Great Lakes list. People who are on those lists and not on this one who respond please include if you are willing to share your responses here. And Paul and Bill please repeat your information if you would. I'll go first. My conditions: wet, mild winters, dry mild summers with occasional hot days. No rain at all until fall and then sometimes not till late fall. They rarely bloom for me and when they do only one or two bloom in a pot and then only for a day or two at a time. Habranthus robustus sometimes blooms more than once a year with blooms lasting about three days. Habranthus tubispathus, now departed, bloomed late summer for a day or two several years, several flowers only per pot. The ones I planted out I haven't seen again. Zephyranthes citrina, drummondii, macrosiphon, morrischiti have yet to bloom from seed. Z. zehryi which is probably a bogus thing bloomed recently after I unpotted it to toss it and the bulbs were so robust I reconsidered and potted it back and watered it. So it was the first and only time for it. Zephyranthes atamasco, a woodland winter growing spring blooming large white flowered species, was given to me last year and it bloomed this spring and was really gorgeous and the container was in bloom for maybe two weeks as different flowers bloomed so it is the only one that may work for me. Z. candida didn't bloom for me in a container much so I planted it out and I get an odd flower in the fall every now and then. When living in a warmer summer climate I could get it to bloom more than once a year. Please share with us your experiences. Mary Sue From ???@??? Sat Jul 20 18:31:06 2002 Message-Id: From: "Daryl Geoghegan" Subject: [Australian_Bulbs] VIRUSED Crinums Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:52:13 +1000 Glenn, I would suppose that seeds are a vector for variegation, of course not virus. Can a plants be effected by virus and transmit the variegate qualities to the seeds? Dash. ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Callcott To: Australian_Bulbs@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [Australian_Bulbs] VIRUSED Crinums There are some interesting aspects to virusing and variegation. Its affect varies from species to species. Generally, regular patterned stripes are true genetic variegation. For instance, we know that a striped Clivia ovary plant will produce a proportion of variegated seedlings. Because of the way cells divide to produce seed, seed is not a vector for virus. In Camellias, there are two types of variegated flower. Stripes are genetically produced. Blotches and spotting are virus produced. The virused Camellia lives on, apparently unaffected. As it happens, my favourite Camellia is a virused form. We had a plant of this in our garden for most of my almost 50 years: only recently destroyed by the rich peasants who are destroying my old family home! In orchids, the mosaic virus grows more pronounced until yellow stripes become black. The plant is doomed well before there is any outward sign of a virus. However, most Daphnes have one of (from memory) over 30 viruses. It has no ill affect on them that I can see. BTW: Daryl the Clivia seed arrived this week. Thanks for the generous additional gift of the Vico yellow x Kevin waters. Glenn Callcott Sydney, Oz ----- Original Message ----- From: Daryl Geoghegan To: Australian_Bulbs@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [Australian_Bulbs] VIRUSED Crinums Alberto, Jim and All, I would have to agree with Alberto in this case. IMHO, there has not been enough work done on virus (with information filtering through to the home gardener) to absolutely convince me that variegated forms of plants do not have virus. This is a side of bulb culture that really needs more investigation. Pests and disease should be common knowledge to every gardener for their area. Traditionally, early type variegated plants came from sports, hybridizing and virused plants yielding siblings that were variegated etc,. With the introduction or techniques like irradiation etc., to obtain variegated plants, it is hard to tell the difference sometimes. Best wishes, Dash. ----- Original Message ----- From: Alberto Castillo To: Australian_Bulbs@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 3:20 AM Subject: [Australian_Bulbs] VIRUSED Crinums Hi Jim et al: A word of warning about the supposedly variegated Crinums. In the second picture in particular it is very clear the mosaic symptomsin the lower leaves. If I were you I would run from that clump of virused Crinums as fast as I could. If there is a mosaic form capable of weakening Crinums to such an extent it would wipe out a whole collection of bulbs. Crinums are very tough plants and usually mask virus symptoms. That is, they have virus and act as carriers without showing symptoms. If you have used a spade to dig them out pass it through a flame for a few minutes. Believe me, such plants belong to a fire along with the soil and pot. Fortunately, you must never have had this problem in your collections. Pray you never have it! Regards Alberto From ???@??? Sat Jul 20 21:31:06 2002 Message-Id: From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: [Australian_Bulbs] VIRUSED Crinums Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:43:18 -0700 Both Glen and Dash and others: We are growing variegated clivias from Chinese seed and the variegated seedlings really look as if they are virus infected - These are Light of Buddha strain and the variegation does not go from base to tip of the leaves. Someone really needs to look for viruses in these seedlings. Harold Prof. Harold Koopowitz Ecology and Evolutionary Biology University of California, Irvine, CA 92697 From ???@??? Sat Jul 20 21:33:47 2002 Message-Id: From: "Daryl Geoghegan" Subject: [Australian_Bulbs] Getting rain lilies to bloom Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:43:18 -0700 Hi Mary Sue and All, I have grown Rainlilies now for a few years in a mixture of sand and potting mix 50/50 with excellent results. The usually bloom for us here twice or more a year. Drying them out seems to help with flowering. Saturating them after a short dry period helps to stimulate them into bloom. Feeding is done with blood and bone, urea free, fertilizer. Zephyranthes candida is by far one of the easiest for us here. It blooms profusely and grows like a weed! Indeed, some of these wonderful little bulbs have escaped into our bush in Queensland. Z. macrosiphon and primulina are also easy to bloom and cultivate. Z. citrina, another easy bulb, grows well here with little or no attention at all. Habranthus robustus 'white form' and H. tubispathus grow like weeds. I have these in larger pots, 20 inch, and the easily fill the entire pot over time. Most of our collection has been double named. That is, I have collected many rainlilies with the same name, different growers naming the bulbs, or perhaps getting the bulb buy that name. Some, have elaborate names like 'Yellow with a red stripe' and are simply H. tubispathus , the usual run of the mill Habranthus tubispathus. Why the grower named it as thus is beyond me. This can be a tad frustrating. I have collected around 150 types of different rainlily, only to find that many are similar or the same. As Mary suggest about Z. zeymeri? This looks like a small Z. macrosiphon and perhaps should be called thus. I know Dirk Wallace in Oz. is studying Rainlilies and has a wonderful collection of correctly taxonomic bulbs. Dirk, where are you buddy? Best wishes, Dash. From ???@??? Sun Jul 21 09:16:32 2002 Message-Id: From: "Floral Artistry" Subject: When are Hymenocallis ripe? Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:22:41 -0700 I have several H. harrisiana spikes that produced seedpods this year and I wanted to know when are the seeds ripe? They were falling off into other plants while they were still green. Many of them came off - actually they all came off- in this state. Are they ripe or were they never pollinated? They are smaller than the last spike which is still ripening. The last spikes seeds are nearly double the size of these first ones and also are more "geometric". By this I mean they are more angular and the first ones are round. Any thoughts? John Ingram jjingram@adelphia.net www.floralartistry.org From ???@??? Sun Jul 21 09:16:32 2002 Message-Id: From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: When are Hymenocallis ripe? Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 10:30:53 -0500 Hi John, Hymenocallis seeds are ripe when they fall off the scape. They stay green, unless they rot. Size and shape seem to depend mainly on how many seeds are packed into the seedpod. Hope this helps. Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. +1-317-896-3925 From ???@??? Sat Jul 27 22:28:04 2002 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20020722105914.00acea40@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Dormancy problems in Ornithogalum dubium Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:59:14 +1000 Howdy All, I have a problem with my orange Ornithogalum dubium. I bought them two years ago and they still haven't shot at all. They have now been through two complete growing seasons without sending up any sort of shoots at all. There are 5 bulbs, all still there in the pot when I checked yesterday. Is there some way to "activate" them? I have seen this discussed before, but cannot recall finding a means of breaking this dormancy. It obviously means that they may be prone to this, but it is still very strange. Meanwhile, I have had a yellow form of O. dubium growing happily the whole time, flowering each year and even setting seed (I assume this as there are three seedlings nearby that look an aweful lot like the O. dubium). I have no idea why this plant has been so happy, when the other ones haven't been growing at all. My only other experience with this orange form is when I bought them a number of years ago in flower. They continued to flower throughout the whole of winter and into spring, eventually exhausting themselves and dying off, never to return. Now i thought it might have been something to do with me, except that the yellow form is so happily growing and multiplying now. Can anyone offer advice on this problem? Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From ???@??? Mon Jul 22 21:14:00 2002 Message-Id: From: Joyce Miller Subject: Hymenocallis seeds Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:42:45 -0700 Dear Friends, I enticed an answer for John Ingram from a shy lurker on the Bulb Forum. Here is what he had to say. Joyce Dear Joyce, While not very experienced with Hymenocallis, the description of the 'seeds' as being angular makes me think that what is being described are actually the ovaries, being sessile at the top of the peduncle and at the base of the floral tube. On all of the various ones I bloomed this year, the ovaries have a distinct angularity to them. I have also observed a size difference of the ovaries on individual scapes. In the H. liriosme that produced seeds, there were multiple seeds within each ovary. I also observed what appeared to be multiple ovum within a dissected ovary of H. coronaria. It is my understanding that all the seeds are rounded or oval and that is what I have observed. The seeds that I have seen have all been green. When ovaries do not produce seed, I have obsrved, in some cases, that they fall individually from their attachment just above the spathe valves. This might give the appearance of shedding of seeds but is more likely simply the shedding of failed ovaries. Kevin Preuss could provide much better info on this than I can. Jim From marque219@yahoo.com Mon Jul 22 12:39:30 2002 Message-Id: From: Mark Wilcox Subject: Introduction Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Hi all, My name is Mark Wilcox, and I live in Washington, DC. I became interested in gardening in 1996, when I moved to a house on Capitol Hill and saw a seemingly infinite variety of flowering plants grown in the postage stamp gardens around me. I have no formal horticultural education and no business reason for growing bulbs. My interest stems from a simple fascination with the beauty of flowers. I grow mostly smaller bulbs as the amount of space in which I have to garden is quite limited. Small bulbs mean I can fit more in, have more plants. I also concentrate on bulbs that are hardy in my area, and enjoy growing things from seed. Thinking about this intro has caused me to reassess the different kinds of bulbs I grow. There are more than I would've thought. The ones that come to mind are: Galanthus, Crocus (both spring- and fall-blooming), tulips (tending toward species lately), Iris reticulata, Hyacinthus, small Gladiolus, Hyacinthoides hispanicus, Clivia miniata, various Cyclamen, Scilla siberica, S. peruviana, various Anemones, Crocosmia, Crinum, X Amarcrinum, various Lycoris, a variety of Colchicums, Ornithogolum, various Habranthus and Zephyranthes, Sandersonia aurantiaca, Gloriosa superba, various Chionodoxa, Belamcanda flabellata, Roscoea, Arum italicum, Rhodophiala bifida (with several other kinds recently started from seed), Narcissus, Amaryllis belladonna, various Hippeastrums (most of which come inside in winter), Corydalis, Griffinia aracensis, and small Dahlias. While I must've forgotten some things, that gives you an idea. I've found that lists such as this one are excellent sources of information, and great pointers to additional info on the web, in books, and elsewhere. Having patient, knowledgable people who are willing to share their experience really helps. Conversely, the run-of-the-mill gardening magazines on the newsstands are virtually no help at all. I'm very happy to be here with you all, and have enjoyed reading all the other introductions, Mark From ???@??? Mon Jul 22 22:28:04 2002 Message-Id: From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Dormancy problems in Ornithogalum dubium Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:09:35 -0700 Dear Paul, In December we had a very interesting discussion of this subject on the Australian images list after someone posted an image of Ornithogalum dubium. Lyn Edwards who like you lives in Canberra had told about losing some orange ones like you have that bloomed themselves to death and others seemed to have more luck with yellow flowered forms. I have had experiences like you have had of their not coming into growth. What is the climate like in Canberra? Here is what I wrote then with a few changes as I see it is still relevant and will save me some time writing it all over again: Subject: Ornithogalum dubium Dear Lyn, I just wanted you to know that you are not the only one to lose Ornithogalum dubium. I am still trying to figure out how to grow them so am interested in all the tips you all are getting. We discussed this on the IBS forum a number of years ago. Lauw de Jager from France could never get them to grow and Mary Irish in the Arizona desert could never get them to last more than one year. I keep trying. The first ones I bought never bloomed nor did they return. Since then I've received bulbs from two different sources. They both bloomed but the first never came back and the second set of three bulbs spent the year following their blooming underground but two of them are up now which is promising. I also got seed from Silverhill which germinated in amazing numbers. I wasn't confident so sowed it too thickly. I had heard Rod Saunders say in a talk that in Israel they can grow these to blooming size in a season, but mine didn't get very big and most of them did not come back up the next season after they went dormant. He didn't say how they did it. Perhaps they had constant light and fertilizer. The advice I have gotten is to feed them well and shelter them from our over abundance of rain. And Rod suggested I try to provide a warm summer so I guess they need to be in my greenhouse. I think what I am learning from all of you is that they should be watered year round, but probably not a lot. If you read where they are found in South Africa they are both in winter rainfall areas (and areas that don't get a lot of rainfall even then) and areas that get year round rainfall (Port Elizabeth I understand gets most of its rain in spring and fall but some year round). Since I have been watering my Ixia viridiflora even when it is dormant it is doing better. I watered the Ornithogalum dubium last summer which is maybe why at least some of the bulbs have come up this year. Maybe they were descendents of bulbs grown in areas with year round rain fall. Mine have not put up multiple blooming stalks and are just about dormant now. I am hoping that if I move them to a warmer place and give them an occasional drink they will come back for me next year, but I haven't dumped them out to look. Alberto Castillo also provided some helpful tips to explain why some might bloom and die afterwards. I am hoping he won't mind my passing them on: This problem of Ornithogalum dubium bulbs dying away like this suggests several possible causes a) inadequate overall temperatures b) lack of watering during the critical period when bulbs really fatten for next year (between flowering and the onset of dormancy) c) you let the young bulbs set seed (this is very detrimental to all bulbs, as in nature they normally do not set seed or even flower every year) d) a fungus disease that destroys them due to excessive moisture once dormancy is on e) improper depth The South African species of Ornithogalum are very prone to disease and it is important to start with healthy bulbs, like those of a source that grows them from seed (you have at least a superb one in Australia). Our Ornithogalum dubium grow in 16 cm pots in full sun and in late Spring they flower profusely and if allowed to, set seed. By the end of the year they go completely dormant but the bulbs are formed like in any other bulb. They are grown in our standard mix for them: 1/3 sterilized proprietary compost, 1/3 horticultural perlite (no dust) and 1/3 crushed rock. Rgds., Alberto Years ago Cathy Craig was keeping track of a very long blooming Ornithogalum dubium. If I haven't made this so long she has stopped reading, Cathy did your plant come back in subsequent years? Mary Sue From ???@??? Mon Jul 22 21:14:00 2002 Message-Id: <001101c231e9$a74a7190$05fa8690@user4fy1aysh6j> From: "Daryl Geoghegan" Subject: [Australian_Bulbs] Re: Dormancy problems in Ornithogalum dubium Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:38:19 +1000 Dear Mary and Paul, I have the 3 types of O. dubium and the cultivation I use for these bulbs is as follows. Plants the seeds into pure sand in 8 inch pots. I use white bricklayers sand for this bulb, it's less fatty than the red. Leave the pots in full sun, full frost, full winter rain and do not water during the summer (although, they do receive rain periodically). These flower each year, produce seeds and then go dormant until next season. I have not had any problems with cultivation of this little treasure using this method. Best wishes, Dash. From ???@??? Mon Jul 22 22:40:54 2002 Message-Id: From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Galanthus 'Lavinia' Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:23:08 +1000 >Arnold and I are in agreement with the exception that he has better weather >than we so if he is not happy about viewing snowdrops in New Jersey, I know I >am never going to be an aficionado. >Maybe, Paul, you would tell us at what temperatures they bloom for you and >how much winter chill (again temp.) is needed. Howdy All, The above was sent to the Bulbs-Images list on yahoogroups, but as we're not supposed to have discussion on there I figured it best to address this here. This was a response to some pictures I posted of the Double Galanthus 'Lavinia' and a brief discussion of finickiness of Galanthus. The following is my response to the above message. I just wanted to explain why this has "appeared" on this list. *********************** Claire, Here in Canberra I get nothing like the weather you guys probably get. We don't get Snow except on very odd ocassions. To us, it is still cold in winter, but to some of you out there we're probably tropical . It is all in the perspective. We get down to at least -6'C each winter here. Some years there are only a couple, whereas others like this year there have been a whole string of cold nights, with down to -8'C already experienced. This winter is colder than a lot of recent ones as a lot of plants previously unaffected by cold have been hit this year. I honestly don't know how much winter chill is needed, just how much we get here. IT works for us, so it can at least give you some idea of what works here. All my Galanthus are grown unprotected from frost with some in the full open and others under shrubs etc. Some of the varieties are actually out in full summer sun (one of these was an accident as the cover plant has taken so long to grow and still hasn't shaded it.... yet the Galanthus is flowering now for the third year running, having experienced all day summer sun into the high 30s ('C). I mention this just to show that not all Galanthus require the cool and shadey aspects. Some definitely prefer a drier summer, while others cannot tolerate it. It depends on the species involved. I find that if the Galanthus get a lot of sun when in bud they tend to have short stems (I have been suffering that this year as we've had very cold nights but rather warm days as well. Some of my favourite cultivars have started flowering on 2 inch stems, somewhat disappointing. I grow my Galanthus in both pots and the ground. They tend to shoot and flower earlier in the pots than the ground, although that is not always the case. Obviously the soil temperatures in the pots rise quicker than the ground, so I don't know what actually stimulates the growth. I find that just about everything I have flowers (obviously not every bulb every year, but a reasonable amount). The only clump I don't have flower is one in very heavy shade. It has failed the last 2 years since a shrub has taken off. I will be moving some of it this year to try to get some flowers next year. They seem to grow happily in the shade, but they just don't flower. This particular species is G. plicatus which is a good flowerer normally (and is in bud in other parts of the garden and in pots). OK, without rambling on any further is that what you were wanting to know? I am certainly no expert on Galanthus, but I'm happy to share experiences with others if it helps them to grow. I must admit that it is easier to grow them in pots as you can lift them to look at the flowers. As Arnold has said... in the middle of winter it is a pain to get down to look at them. Much easier to lift and look at the flower instead of getting down to it . Can I add anything else here to help? Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From ???@??? Tue Jul 23 07:07:25 2002 Message-Id: From: Robert Hamilton Subject: [Australian_Bulbs] What's flowering Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 20:04:43 +1000 Hi all, I'm holidaying after the birth of twins Katie and James on 12/7/02, they are asleep and its raining again, so I have decided to write about whats flowering. I am still digitally challenged so here are some pen pictures. All the following are flowering for me at present - mostly grown from seed (except the Iris and Galanthus). Crocus angustifolius ( Crocus susianus of gardens)- lovely yellow marked heavily with bronze externally. Crocus malyi - white with yellow throat and contrasting red style. Crocus oliveri - striking orange yellow crocus Crocus pestalozzae - a small lavender blue crocus Crocus sieberi Firefly - lavender blue with a pale yellow throat. Crocus sieberi sublimus tricolor- rich lilac blue with yellow throat and a band of white in between. Colchicum bivonae- first flowering from seed - small flowers like most of the winter colchicum - deep pink with white petal tips. I wish there was a definative work on colchicum. Colchicum diamopolis- cream flowers Colchicum kesselringii - white flowers marked deep lavender externally Colchicum luteum -yellow flowers over the last month Meredera eichleri- white flowers with petals tipped lavender. Iris reticulata Harmony - one of the easiest reticulata's Iris reticulata Purple Gem - deep purple as name suggests. Iris stenophylla 'Alisonii'- a juno with deep blue falls with paler blue edges , with central yellow keel with white lines and that juno 'sheen' to the flowers. Galanthus gracilis , worowonii , x Elcatus, Ophelia - very desirable when you dont have any but all white and green and very similar when you do !!! Cyclamen coum (several forms), pseudoibericum, repandum Pelops . Still have lots of varieties of "hoop petticoats" out - with new to me Narcissus bulbocodium graellsii - a tiny gem. I appear to be getting a midwinter flower on a clone of Biarum carratracense which I have had for 5 years without seeing a flower. This follows a wet summer - perhaps the dry mild autumn did the trick. Cheers, Rob Dr R F Hamilton From ???@??? Tue Jul 23 07:07:25 2002 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: BX 1 Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:00:50 -0400 Dear All, This is the first offering of the Pacific Bulb Society Bulb and Seed Exchange (BX). The items listed below have been donated by members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 1" in the subject line. Specify the numbers of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer for you order. Each item costs US$2.00 to cover first-class postage. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send clean, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA 18928, USA. OFFERINGS: From Mary Sue Ittner : 1. Bulblets of Nothoscordum dialystemon (syn. Ipheion dialystemon) "I fell in love with this winter growing bright yellow flower from Argentina when I visited Bill Dijk in New Zealand (ditto the Leucocoryne). I was so lavish in my praise that he sent me a large number to distribute to others. Once turned around to the Northern hemisphere mine has thrived and it blooms for me for a long time in February and March. I give it a warm not totally dry summer dormancy and grow it in my covered but open on the sides bench in winter where it gets some protection from the elements. Mine has finally formed offsets so I can now share them with others." 2. Cormlets of Leucocoryne coquimbensis--"These are offsets of plants originally given by Bill Dijk of New Zealand. This is a Chilean plant with a very attractive flower that blooms fairly long in the spring. These are desert plants that come into flower after it rains. For a picture go to http://www.ctio.noao.edu/misc/floracion/images/huilli_blue.jpg They need a warm summer and plenty of fertilizer when in growth to bloom properly. These are not blooming sized yet, but mine that have bloomed have even prettier markings on the flowers than the ones in the picture." 3. Corms of Hesperantha cucullata--"These are blooming sized corms of a South African irid that is night blooming so is best planted in a container and brought inside early evening as the flowers open. Most of these are fragrant at night, at least when you first bring them in. Flowers close in the morning. I have these to offer since they were misidentified seed and they all turned out to be the same thing and I have more than I need. They rarely produce offsets, but do set seed almost too easily." "Hardiness on these three I am not sure of. They are fine for Zone 9. Perhaps someone has experience with them in colder climates and can report on that." Also from Mary Sue: 4. Seed of Cyrtanthus brachyscyphus. From Dell Sherk: 5. Seed of Zephyranthes atamasca. 6. Seed of Rhodophiala sp.: scapes 30 cm tall with one flower each, bronzed yellow with dark throat. Thank you, Mary Sue! Best wishes, Dell -- Dell Sherk, Pacific Bulb Society Bulb and Seed Exchange From ???@??? Tue Jul 23 07:33:40 2002 Message-Id: From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Message from Rachel Saunders Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:27:41 -0700 Dear All, Rachel Saunders will join us one of these days, but will be out and about for awhile so may wait until she is more stable. But she said I could post this weather/travel report from South Africa: "We went off to the Ceres Karoo for a day last week. The mountains were covered with snow from head to toe, and it was a beautiful cold blue sky day. We left at 6.30am in the icy cold, and by about 10am we were in the Karoo. We were looking for Tritonia florentinae which Andries told us was flowering, and we found it in sheets. The plants are about 5 - 10cm high with large bright yellow flowers - really worth finding. They only seem to grow in a few patches , but were in thousands in those patches. There were also Lachenalia obscura (pretty obscure it is!) and a Massonia with white flowers in flower. On the way home we found some Veltheimia capensis in very green seed. We finally got home after 7pm, so it was a long day, but very nice. The cold weather has spread to the Eastern Cape, and most areas are completely snowed in. There is a meter of snow in many towns, and we are not equipped to cope with those conditions, so we don't have things like snow ploughs, etc. It is pouring with rain today again, and all our mountains are covered with snow. The heaviest snow falls for over 70 years. The top of the Drakensberg and Lesotho have meter deep snow and many people are stranded in cars and on roads that are blocked. This cold front won't help either. But the rain is good for the flowers so let it fall!" From ???@??? Tue Jul 23 22:28:04 2002 Message-Id: From: "Daryl Geoghegan" Subject: Dormancy problems in Ornithogalum dubium Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:28:04 Paul, G'Day buddy, drying of this bulbs seems to be needed. Placing them into the garage is a good idea. I know Gary Reid has a whole shed full of bulbs in dormancy! It works for him quite well. As soon as the foliage tend to yellow and die of, dry them off. Dash. From ???@??? Tue Jul 23 23:28:04 2002 Message-Id: From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Dormancy problems in Ornithogalum dubium Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 23:28:04 >Plants the seeds into pure sand in 8 inch pots. I use white bricklayers sand >for this bulb, it's less fatty than the red. Leave the pots in full sun, >full frost, full winter rain and do not water during the summer (although, >they do receive rain periodically). These flower each year, produce seeds >and then go dormant until next season. I have not had any problems with >cultivation of this little treasure using this method. > Thanks Dash and others who have responded. I have had absolutely no problems with the yellow form that I got from Dirk Wallace (I have been SO happy with that plant, which has really shown up the darn orange ones ). I have seed sown of O. dubium from Silverhill as well, but no signs of germination yet, plus there are the three seedligns that appeared near the yellow mother plant. The seedlings don't seem to ber a problem, it is just these orange ones that refuse to leave dormancy. I must admit I have not dried these off particularly over summer. For that matter the yellow has been watered permanently and has been evergreen for the last two years. Would giving these orange ones a total dry for a couple of weeks in the garage possibly shock them into finally breaking dormancy do you think? I think once they are growing they should do the same as the yellow (or at least I am hoping that will be the case). I would hope that once they have broken dormancy that they will behave normally. It is just trying to get them to grow that is the finicky bit. Given I have 5 bulbs that are doing this, I might experiment with different things for each bulb. Any suggestions for what I should try are welcome. Dash, do you think that drying them in the garage for a couple of weeks now would help or hinder? Thanks in anticipation peoples. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From ???@??? Wed Jul 24 13:04:40 2002 Message-Id: From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Volcanic rock Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:40:43 -0700 Dear All, I am interested in why horticultural pumice if mixed with peat would break down into a clay-like substance. Patty, can you explain this to us with your knowledge of geology. What would this do to a mix? Will Ashburner, a former participant of the IBS forum from Australia, did an air filled porosity test at a meeting a number of us in Northern California attended in his honor and concluded that most of the soil mixes we use, at least in California, were inferior to the ones available in Australia. In fact he pronounced the one he tested fit for bog plants, not bulbs. When he visited me a day later, he was unimpressed with the ingredients I was using in my mixes. The sand I had he declared too fine and said it would make my mix worse rather than better. After his visit I experimented with red lava rock in many of my mixes one year. I don't know if it is the same thing as scoria. The bag we purchased had mixed sizes. Some was rather fine and it sounds like from Jane's report that may be what Loren uses. I thought in retrospect based on Will's advice it would have been better to sift that part out. It didn't seem that things grew that well using it. I have been happier with the white kind of pumice, but have only found one place I could buy it in larger quantities and that is in Berkeley and I'm not there very often. The bags I see for sale locally are small and expensive. Interestingly Rod Saunders suggested when I was trying to grow South African ericas from seed to use a peat, smaller size pumice mix to germinate the seeds. Mary Sue From ???@??? Wed Jul 24 13:04:40 2002 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20020724114043.008e4460@127.0.0.1> From: Jane McGary Subject: VOlcanic rock Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:40:43 -0700 Marguerite and Cathy mentioned crushed volcanic rock and scoria. We use a great deal of these products here in the Pacific Northwest of the USA (because they're local and cheap, and also because they're great for plants). The crushed horticultural pumiceis a pale gray or white pumice and is the kind most people use. A geologist told me that it will break down quickly (i.e., in 5 years or so) to a claylike substance if combined with an acid ingredient such as peat. It is nearly neutral in pH and contributes potassium to the soil, as well as being a superb physical amendment -- hospitable to fine roots, retains just enough water, and is angular for good drainage. European and British gardeners can get a similar product that is mined in Iceland. I use several cubic yards/meters of this pumice every year, purchasing it in bags that weigh 60-70 pounds and cost $7 apiece. It is cheaper bought in bulk but you need a dumptruck and a way to keep the weed seeds out of it once it is dumped. My bulb potting mix is: 1 part crushed pumice, 1 part humus, and 2 parts very coarse, sharp river sand. This is suitable for all the smaller bulbs I grow but would be too lean for, e.g., lilies. Scoria is a harder type of lava that is usually dark in color -- what we get here is dark red. It is typically used as a mulch. I can't find any crushed small enough to use in potting soil, but Loren Russell reports that he goes to the rock yard and scrapes up the dust and grit that falls to the bottom of the redrock bins. Jane McGary NW Oregon From ???@??? Wed Jul 24 22:28:04 2002 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: Dormancy problems in Ornithogalum dubium Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:28:04 I saw Charles Gorenstein's collection two or three times. I was very new to bulbs and so cannot tell what he was growing, Irids for sure but he had hundreds of pots so surely he was growing many of the genus we all discuss, and he grew every one of them in pure sand. Jim Duggan was using the sand-on-the-bottom, then the bulb, with potting medium above (correct me here, Jim), but is now using a different mix. Mee can probably remember exactly what but it is one third crushed volcanic rock. The really interesting part is that he says people always say (especially in the older writings) not to fertilize these types of bulbs. He says the opposite is true for him and he has been getting spectacular results by fertilizing the devil out of them. Cathy Craig From ???@??? Thurs Jul 25 22:28:04 2002 To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Thurs, 25 Jul 2002 22:28:04 From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Re: Dormancy problems in Ornithogalum dubium Howdy again Dash et al, Thanks for the responses. Interesting to see how many people in how many locations grow this. My yellow form is actually quite compact, in fact it has always had too short a stems for cutting really which is a shame. It is now a dense clump with offsets around it, never losing its leaves at all. Interesting to see others expereinces with the orange... obviously the yellow is more compact (well mine is anyway). . In response to Dash's last email (Thank you so much for keeping on answering these questions Dash) <> >yes they should be growing now. If the bulbs have not come up, dig around a >little to see if they are still there. I am unsure if this bulb misses >growing for a season now and then like some bulbs do. > >See if the bulbs are there. If they are, continue to keep them in the >weather to see if they will grow. After the season has finished is the time >to rest them. In my original email I made sure I said that as I knew that was going to be one of the queries .... ******** From my original email ********* I bought them two years ago and they still haven't shot at all. They have now been through two complete growing seasons without sending up any sort of shoots at all. There are 5 bulbs, all still there in the pot when I checked yesterday. Is there some way to "activate" them? ***************************************** All 5 are still there, and they have now skipped not one but 2 complete growing seasons while I have had the yellow form in full growth for that whole time, without any signs of dormancy ever. That is why I asked in the first place as it was so wierd that one type was happy and the other not growing at all. So..... 5 bulbs still there, in a pot, where they have been sitting for the last two years, not a sign of a shoot from any of them in that time. Bulbs still firm with no sign of any roots (nor has there ever been). A couple of metres away is the yellow form in full growth which has been evergreen for me, flowering both of the last two years and even setting seed. That is why I am confused. So...... it looks like I leave then there for the moment and contact you later in the year to find out when they "should" be going dormant so I can dry them. Using my yellow ones as a meter for this isn't going to work as they don't go dormant at all. Now after this i am not going to even ask about Moraea polystachya. I have 5 of those bulbs (plus seedlings coming on) and I have never had 3 of those grow, although the other two have every year in the past. The two that grew have happily flowered each year while the others have sat. Two different sources. One of those that hasn't grown has now been in the ground for 5 years and still never a shoot. This year, not one of the 5 has appeared for me. All 5 bulbs are definitely still there though. I have nothing else that i know of that skips seasons regularly, just the Ornithogalum dubium (orange) and the M. polystachya. I was hoping there was a simple answer, but didn't really expect there to be . Thanks again peoples. Cheers. Paul Tyerman From ???@??? Wed Jul 24 22:28:04 2002 Message-Id: From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Dormancy problems in Ornithogalum dubium Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:28:04 Dear All, This is an interesting topic. I thought I had figured it out, warmth in summer and now Claire says hers go in a cool basement. I looked up my records. Feb 1999--IBS BX planted in Februrary (which I thought very late, but since they were donated by someone in a colder climate they must have been on Claire and Lisa's schedule.) They came up right away and 2 of 4 bloomed in June. When the looked like they were going dormant I stopped watering them. Oct 1999--I repotted them and watered them. They did not start into growth. I stopped watering when the rains stopped. Sometime between then and now I lost them without their ever coming back into growth. Spring 2000-I bought some orange ones in bloom at a grocery store in Texas in May when visiting my family. This is the sign of a true fanatic, going out of state and bringing back bulbs in bloom on the plane. I dried them off when they went dormant. Fall 2000 I start watering them again and they did not come up. Summer 2001 I repotted them (four) and watered them and then watered monthly until two came up in October. They bloomed April-June. I just went out and felt in the pot since I am following Alberto's advice and still applying some water until they are completely dry and it appears that the two that have now stayed dormant for two years are healthy. Twice I have tried Ornithogalum maculatum from seed. No germination one time and the second time I got them to germinate, but they did not return the second year. I had 50 little shoots from seed of Ornithogalum dubium from Silverhill seeds the first year. Most of them did not come into growth the second year and I ended up with 20 tiny bulbs. So my track record is not good. Dash did you keep watering your seedlings or provide a dormant period? I am always amazed to read of people growing things in large containers in pure sand. Don't you have to water a lot and aren't the pots really heavy? How much do you feel your bulbs Dash? Since Alberto says one of the problems is potting at the wrong depth, what is the right depth? Thanks for the suggestion of cutting them right away and enjoying the flowers Claire. Hoping to get better at this, Mary Sue From ???@??? Wed Jul 24 22:28:04 2002 Message-Id: From: Lisa and Al Flaum Subject: Dormancy problems in Ornithogalum dubium Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:28:04 Dear Paul, Like Claire, I grow them in pots and have adapted them to my schedule. Last summer, I bought both and orange and a white at a local discount store. They both bloomed and grew all summer. I dried them off for the winter and stored in the basement with the rainlilies and crinums. I tried starting both in late spring. The white has multiplied considerably and is blooming madly. The orange did nothing for a 7 weeks (I checked the bulbs), then rotted. The white is a splendid bulb and I am going to get seed from Rachel and see if I can get some equally adaptable yellow and orange. Anyway, if it ain't growing, I'd dry it off for 4 weeks (a shot in the dark) and see what happens. At this point, what have you got to loose? Lisa (who treats her plants ruthlessly) From ???@??? Wed Jul 24 22:28:04 2002 Message-Id: From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Dormancy problems in Ornithogalum dubium Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:28:04 Dash, The problem is that they are supposed to be growing now aren't they? That is why I was asking whether it was OK to fully dry them now, even though they "should" be growing at this time of year. Also, with O. dubium.... how long should I dry them in the garage for now? I just want to get them to break dormancy so that they actually grow. Or... would it be best to leave them now and then fully dry them in summer, to try to bring them on at the right time. Sorry to ask all these questions but I want to finally get these right . I will keep in mind when I eventually DO get them growing that I dry them off once their leaves start to yellow...... I just wish they had leaves!!!!!! Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From ???@??? Wed Jul 24 22:28:04 2002 Message-Id: From: "Daryl Geoghegan" Subject: Dormancy problems in Ornithogalum dubium Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:28:04 Paul, yes they should be growing now. If the bulbs have not come up, dig around a little to see if they are still there. I am unsure if this bulb misses growing for a season now and then like some bulbs do. See if the bulbs are there. If they are, continue to keep them in the weather to see if they will grow. After the season has finished is the time to rest them. Let me know if they are still in the pot. Best wishes, Dash. From mysticgardn@yahoo.com Thu Jul 25 17:07:33 2002 Message-Id: From: ann marie Subject: Introduction Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Hello everyone I don't write much because I'm not as knowledgeable as those I read mail from. Bit I feel the need to introduce myself, I lived in Southern California, (Pasadena then Glendora area) my whole life (No Numbers). I find this area to be easier to grow all bulbs and so. African plants. Could be why my garden is soooo full. I have only an average size lot, no acreage to fill up. I'm afraid I'd go mad if I did, or my husband would divorce me. When it's not so hot (97-100) I spend at least 4 hours a day to all day, doesn't leave much time for hubby, good thing he likes to fish and watch sports. I got into bulbs from my mother and sister in-law. I've been collecting for at least 25 years.(ouch I'm feeling old). My favorites are Amaryllis belladonna, Hippeastrum, Crinum, Nerines, Moreae, Iris, Watsonia, Chasmanthes, Scilla, Crocosmia, Allium, Oxalis and Hymenocallis, to name a few bulbs. But I also love Succulents, I can never pass up a Succulent Societies Sale. I also collect Epyphillums (Over 100 named varieies). I also have a pond and raise pond plants and fish. I have 15 different varieties of fruit trees on the property, hedges and walkways, all screaming for attention, besides my dog Meagan and my cat Ashley. I call this menagerie, "Mystic Garden". My moto is if it holds dirt it can hold a plant. I love metal, rusty metal, concrete, bricks and glass and my place is full of it-old, new and used. I will send some pictures along at another time. Ann Marie of So Cal From ???@??? Thu Jul 25 22:28:04 2002 Message-Id: From: "Daryl Geoghegan" Subject: Dormancy problems in Ornithogalum dubium Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:28:04 Hi Mary-Sue and All, Mary Sue wrote> good. Dash did you keep watering your seedlings or provide a dormant period? I did not water at all during this period. Mary Sue wrote> How much do you feel your bulbs Dash? I guess you mean feed, right? At the beginning of the season, when first spring come on and half way during the growing/flowering period too. Best wishes, Dash. From batlette@cox.net Thu Jul 25 21:10:36 2002 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: Introduction and... Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 21:07:50 -0700 Hi all, I live in San Clemente in So. CA, about 750 ft above sea level overlooking the beautiful Pacific Ocean. We are close enough to derive the benefit of cooling from the fog but are just above the normal fog level (which is at around 500 ft hereabouts). While San Clemente only gets about 10 inches of rain a year, we likely get another 5-10 inches of moisture from the fog and marine air. Our temperatures therefore remain pretty stable and the summertime day temps are 12-15 F below what they are even just a half mile inland off the ocean. We are on a lot that is about 1/4 acre with perhaps two thirds of that on a wooded slope of about 45 degrees. My husband and I have been here about 5 years, having moved from Costa Mesa, and so far I only have the back yard finished but am making some real progress at last out front. I grow mostly perennials and bulbs. Most of the bulbs are in pots. It is my mission to get all the bulbs out of pots and growing permanently in the beds sometime before I'm dead of old age. I used to grow hippeastrum (commonly called amaryllis) but they are way too temperamental. If it's not the mealy bugs - and it always is - then it's that red fungus. Nuts to that. I grow H. papilio only which seems happy and remains healthy. Also grow some Clivias and X Cyrtanthiaflora, which I put into a shade bed just recently and they are a lot happier than they ever were in pots. In fact the X Cyrtanthiflora is blooming now. Gorgeous. Got a photo and will try to post it. Lately I've been going nuts with lilies. Trumpets, asiatics, orientals, and all the crosses in between. These are mostly in the beds with daylilies, foxgloves, delphiniums, chocolate cosmos, alstroemerias, coreopsis, campanulas, cannas, and vegetables too. After two separate failures I have managed to sucessfully grow Madonna Lilies. Very pretty, but on the wimpy side. Will see how they do next year, but at least they bloomed this year. There are a flat of 4 in pots of Nerines, just divided and repotted. These do quite well; no bugs and no diseases. Bloom pretty reliably each year. We did rescue a few hundred Amaryllis belladonna bulbs from up north and planted them out on the slope. So far they are alive and well and I hope/expect they will bloom this fall. The South African bulbs live out in the hot beds with the hollyhocks. Can't call yourself a gardener without hollyhocks. And I broke down and finally started growing roses too. Not HTs, but climbers, shrubs, and old-fashioned ones too. I finally saw my first Lycoris bloom a few days ago. Thing has been in the ground for years and at last bloomed. I goofed up and planted it about a foot deep. You have to give bulbs credit, they are tenacious devils! I also grow tulips, hyacinths, and daffodils. T. Ollioules has come back each year and increased some for 4 years now. At last Urgineas are blooming. This is an interesting plant. Enough of that. I am interested to hear what you all grow with your bulbs. This is a challenge; trying to figure out how to pair perennials and bulbs. BTW, anyone and everyone is always welcome to stop by. Our door is always open to plant nuts. Just call or email first to make sure I am here. It's nice to talk plants in person too. And you can always have some to take home with you. Cathy Craig San Clemente CA Zone 9b From ???@??? Fri Jul 26 13:04:40 2002 Message-Id: From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Volcanic rock Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:25:03 EDT Dear Paul and Dave, Thanks so much for your good explanations. This soil business is so complex. It probably explains why we many of us continue to experiment to find what works best for us. I guess I need to rethink the pumice solution. I haven't had much luck in finding some of those clay products in Northern California (turface, profile are names people use) even when I go to stores that supposedly carry them. And thanks too Dave for anticipating my coir question. Mary Sue From ???@??? Fri Jul 26 13:04:40 2002 Message-Id: From: TGlavich@aol.com Subject: Decomposed Granite Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:25:03 EDT Sunburst Rock in Irwindale (Southern California) has a Decomposed Granite, black and red volcanic cinders in every size from 3/16 inch to 3 feet. Tom From ???@??? Fri Jul 26 13:04:40 2002 Message-Id: From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Clay products (Profile) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:25:03 EDT >I haven't had much luck in finding some of those clay products in Northern California (turface, profile are names people use Try to find companies that sell horticulture/turf management supplies to golf courses or ball parks, they often have this. Mark Mazer From ???@??? Fri Jul 24 13:04:40 2002 Message-Id: From: TheAfricanGarden@aol.com Subject: Volcanic rock Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:25:03 EDT Hi Mary Sue and all, On the topic of media I'd just like to say that I use peat based composts for everything I grow here, however I will say that most composts sold here to amateurs in the UK have very low air filled porosities. Some are blends of Irish and dark Somerset sedge peats, and the dark Somerset peats have a tendancy to compact. The composts I favor come from Irish Moss peats, my favorite is from a manufacturer called 'Bulrush' (just in case it is exported). I actually buy their growbags which are sold for tomatoe use, it also works out to just 3p per litre, whats that, 2 cents per litre, if you open them they contain many different grades of peat, and to anyone looking at it, it looks really rough stuff, but gets better once the twigs etc have been taken out. However it has a fantastic air filled porosity, and probably over 13%. The mix also contains a lot of potash for the tomatoes, which is ideal for a lot of the bulbs here. All the SA bulbs I grow here produce a fantasticly large and strong root system, however there are two other factors along with the compost that I take into consideration. All the pots have gravel placed on top, and this to prevent the sun directly drying out the surface of the compost. The sun is also good on terracotta here as being maritime our summers are often cooler, so when the sun decides to come out, the pots get a lot of radiant heat and will be a lot warmer than the air temperature, and this heat can be stored by the pot for longer. This giving a lot of the South African bulbs the heat that they would get and require for growth and flower production. And I use terracotta pots to grow all the bulbs, irrigation can be tricky and time consuming in the summer but in the winter, the compost is able to breathe through the porous pot and hence the bulbs rarely get waterlogged and hence frosted during their dormancy. Very rarely do I put sand or pumice in any mix and primarily because I find that some can clog a mix and make it heavy. Remember sand can be good draining or bad draining dependant on the size of the grains in it. Fortunately this is easy to test. The only problem with the compost here, worms. I never considered them a pest until a few years ago but if a plant starts failing there'll probably be a worm or worms in the pot, and this has become more troublesome than vine weevil or sciarid fly, the compost gnat. The worms actually compact the compost, roots then rot, and the worms then start eating the decaying rots. This has actually been a significant pest on growing Tulbaghia. It can be remedied by soaking the pots with a benomyl fungicide, as this fungicide is know to kill worms as well as fungi. Any other problems are easily sorted by repotting as the compost is very cheap, and it washes off roots easily if the compost needs to be replaced because of a pest etc. From what I've seen of pumice, expansion and breakdown usually takes place after a time because it soaks up too much water and isn't as strong a material as lecca (lightweight expanded clay aggregates). Small grade lecca pellets used in hydroponics may be a better alternative, however they can be very expensive. In theory you can grow anything in literally anything, just look at what is used in the hydroponic industry, eg. rockwool, lecca, straw bails. However, standard growing and composts require a portion of the ingredient to hold onto nutrients for sustainable culture, in peat, it is 'humic acid', which is produced by the breakdown of the peat, and in soil based composts it is 'clay'. I don't see coir as an alternative as it lacks the ability to hold onto nutrients unless mixed with either a loam, or other organic compost. Best Wishes, Dave (Plymouth, UK) N.B. Noting that terracotta pots would probably dry out too quickly in warmer climates, such as the Pacific Coast in full sun. From ???@??? Fri Jul 26 13:04:40 2002 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Volcanic rock Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:25:03 EDT Mary Sue, Have you tried using decomposed granite in your mix? It is inexpensive but rather heavy. I use d.c.(2), coarse sand (3), fine redwood (2), super soil (2), and perelite (1). I do not find that most SA bulbs are too picky. Doug From ???@??? Fri Jul 26 13:04:40 2002 Message-Id: From: Dr Paul Chapman Subject: Volcanic rock Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:25:03 EDT Dear Mary Sue, Dave and all, I'm scraping my distant memory cells, but my Ph.D. work had a lot to do with this. Firstly, pumice is a volcanic rock; it was erupted at the surface of the earth and cooled quickly, as opposed to granite, which cooled slowly, well buried in the earth. As a result, the crystals of minerals in pumice are tiny, and generally need a microscope to be seen easily, because they didn't have time to grow to any size before the lava became solid, whereas crystals (that might be the same minerals) in granite are big enough to see easily. Now comes the scientific bit - for the same total volume of crystal, there is much more surface area if there are lots of small crystals, rather than one big crystal. Believe it or not, the size of crystals in granite are about 1000 times bigger than those in pumice, which gives you 1000 times as much surface area. Most chemical reactions between solids and liquids take place on surfaces, so pumice will react about 1000 times as fast as granite - it will only take a few years to change, not a few thousand years. When more or less any sort of igneous rock breaks down, the minerals don't simply dissolve in the water (except for the silica) - they change first to clays, which then eventually dissolve (if anyone wants a copy of my Ph.D. thesis....). So, that's the basic reason for clay building up in composts containing pumice - helped by the fact that, where there is peat as well, the water in the compost will become acid, which will speed up the reactions that break down the minerals. On a slightly different topic, Dave mentioned that worms were a problem in his pots, and that Benomyl was a possible solution. I have exactly the same problem, and have been looking for a solution for ages. The only trouble is, I haven't seen any Benomyl containing fungicides around for ages, and thought they had been banned in the UK. Do you know the names of any that are still commercially available to amateurs? Best wishes, Paul Dr Paul Chapman, Wallington, Surrey, UK South London commuter belt suburbia - zone 9a - where we have a warm, sunny day today, and you can almost believe the zone number! mailto:cyrtanthus@blueyonder.co.uk From ???@??? Fri Jul 26 13:04:40 2002 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Clay products (Profile) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:25:03 EDT Also, try places that sell water garden supplies. Profile makes a Turface product for lawns, golf courses, etc., but they also sell virtually the same substance in the same size bags but with different labelling as a potting medium for water lilies and other water garden plants. Since discovering this, instead of hunting around at the more obscure places for the lawn turface product, I can almost always find bags of the water gardening turface product at chain stores such as Orchard Supply Hardware for example. It's kind of expensive compared to potting soil mixes, so I probably don't incorporate as much as I should except for those plants that I've had trouble with in the past or are more valuable to me. -- --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From ???@??? Fri Jul 26 08:21:49 2002 Message-Id: From: TheAfricanGarden@aol.com Subject: Volcanic rock Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:54:16 EDT On a slightly different topic, Dave mentioned that worms were a problem in his pots, and that Benomyl was a possible solution. I have exactly the same problem, and have been looking for a solution for ages. The only trouble is, I haven't seen any Benomyl containing fungicides around for ages, and thought they had been banned in the UK. Do you know the names of any that are still commercially available to amateurs? Best wishes, Paul Hi Paul, Yes benomyl has been banned, but at first there was a voluntary removal, I don't know if it has been banned commercially though in the UK. It's easier to obtain than mercuric compounds or aldrin that were once used to kill everything but you'll have to try hard to find it. Usually small DIY or gardening shops are the best. The history of benomyl and worms goes back to a commercial problem that occured in the Vale of Evesham, where yields of onions were falling. ADAS at the time looked into this and found that where benomyl was used to treat white rust the population of worms had dropped significantly, year upon year, therefore the soil was less aerated, hence the drop in yield. Actually a few golf greenkeepers started to use it because of its anti-worm properties. The next thing I'll try for the worms is chilli powder, natures home made irritant !!! Thanks for the info on pumice. Best Wishes, Dave (Plymouth) From ???@??? Fri Jul 26 08:21:49 2002 Message-Id: From: TheAfricanGarden@aol.com Subject: Worms Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:14:49 EDT Actually whilst repairing my greenhouse last year because I found some rot under the wooden eaves. I actually found that many earthworms has actually climbed the front of the greenhouse and were living in the rotting wood. Just think I could have had the first greenhouse ever destroyed by earthworms. No prizes for guessing but the only way they could have got there is by migrating from pots on the greenhouse shelf. So yes bigger problem than I first thought, and don't we all read how beneficial worms can be ! I'll just have to take up fishing, now that could solve the problem and there would be little need to buy bait. Best Wishes, Dave From ???@??? Fri Jul 26 08:21:49 2002 Message-Id: From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Earthworms Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:17:59 EDT In a message dated 7/26/2002 7:55:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time, TheAfricanGarden@aol.com writes: The next thing I'll try for the worms is chilli powder, natures home made irritant !!! A solution of mustard powder and water will bring the worms to the surface where they may easily be removed by hand. Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, CT 06755-0142 www.therapyshapes.com Aracea, Paris, Cape Bulbs USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From ???@??? Fri Jul 26 16:54:07 2002 Message-Id: From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Soils and potting mixes Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 18:20:29 -0500 Hi all, I doubt that we have decomposed granite available around here. Most of our rocks are limestone, and about 100 - 200 ft straight down, below the soils, subsoils, sand, gravel, and whatever. As you may guess, I'm no geologist! Garden soils tend to be clays. If you are fortunate enough to have some original topsoil left where you live, it is probably a sandy loam, loam, or clay loam type. As former agricultural lands are converted to subdivisions, the original topsoil may be sold off or may merely be buried as the areas are graded for construction. Those poor folks in brand new homes have their expensive sod laid on top of pure clay subsoil. When they come to my garden for daylilies, I always advise them to hire a landscaper with a backhoe to dig out the top 12 - 18 inches of clay and replace with high quality blended topsoils, about $15 - $25 per cubic yard, delivered. A few of them really do so. We can get a great triple-mix topsoil here, composed of loam, local black peat, and sand (1 : 1 : 1). In my pots, I use two basic mixes: One, my "sandy mix," is a Promix - sand (2 : 1) mixture. The other one, my "gritty mix," is Promix - sand - granite chick starter grit (ca. 2 : 1 : 1). These two do pretty well for most of my plants. For starting small seeds and daylily seeds, I usually use straight Promix, which is manufactured in Canada and is based on brown Canadian peat mixed with a little perlite, vermiculite, and some rough shredded twigs. You could probably use ordinary brown peat at 1/3 the cost of something like Promix. Pen Henry in the Clivia group suggested using a concrete mixer to make these potting mixes up, and I finally follower her advice, thank god! It works far better than mixing by hand. We bought an electric concrete mixer at Lowe's, for about $250. It has never had cement in it and never will. It has two wheels on one end, and I can roll it around. It is stored in the garage, right beside the propane grill. I grow my Hippeastrum, Cyrtanthus, Nerine, Haementhus, Clivia, and Crinum bulbs in the the gritty mix. I start their seeds on the sandy mix. Both mixes are indeed heavy in large containers. But since a large Clivia plant in a 3-gallon container outdoors will be blown over in a typical summer thunderstorm here, the more weight in the bottom, the better. Because of the weight involved, I usually haul my potted bulbs around on carts. Irma, my wife, found a neat 4-wheeled cart with a removable second story in a garden supply catalog a couple years ago. It hitches to the back of our riding mowers and is great for moving multiple big pots between back door or greenhouse and the outdoors areas in spring and autumn. In summer here in central Indiana, we can have anything from very wet to very dry weather, anything from mild to hot temperatures, and almost always high relative humidity. It can be tough to get clivias through a wet, rainy summer outdoors. Some of my Haemanthus are not very happy in the humidity too. Almost all my Haemanthus carneus are on strike this summer; it looks like they would rather rot than grow. H. humilis hirsutus and H. montanus, however, are apparently doing pretty well. If I ever get the montanus to bloom, I will certainly cross it with hirsutus to pursue my quest for another Haemanthus besides albiflos that it is humanly possible to grow here. Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana, where it is a mite warm and humid after a quick mid-day thunderstorm. ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. +1-317-896-3925 From ???@??? Fri Jul 26 20:12:18 2002 Message-Id: From: Elizabeth Waterman Subject: Haemanthus Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:09:50 -0700 Hi all, As some of you know I volunteer in the shop at the UC Botanical garden in Berkeley. Today there was a real gem in the shop as of 2:00 pm Friday: Haemanthus cinnabarina. It's in full bloom and about five inches across. I'll send a photo to the image groups. Liz Waterman From ???@??? Fri Jul 26 22:21:38 2002 Message-Id: From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Haemanthus Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:02:59 -0700 Dear Liz, Was it for sale and did you buy it? It's really pretty, but I've never heard of it and don't find a reference to it from before or see it in my books. I don't know much about Haemanthus however. Can anyone tell us about it and where it comes from? Thanks for sharing. Mary Sue From ???@??? Sat Jul 27 07:21:48 2002 Message-Id: From: "Ixia" Subject: Haemanthus Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 16:43:52 +1000 Mary Sue, there is a reference in Dee Snijmans book on page 123 under EXCLUDED TAXA . The entry says" " H cinnabarinus Desne. in Fl des serres 12: 27 t 1195 (1857) = S. cinnabarinus (Decne.) Friis & Nordal". Which probably means it is in the Scadoxus family and not truly Haemanthus? regards, Bill Richardson Gippsland Australia 0-15c. Cold, wet days of winter. Ixia site: http://www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia Suite 101 site: http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/bulbs_and_plants From ???@??? Sat Jul 27 07:21:48 2002 Message-Id: From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Haemanthus ? Scadoxus Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 21:28:10 +1000 Hi Bill, I hadnt read your posting when I mentioned Scadoxus. I have since done a search and found Scadoxus cinnabarina mentioned as part of the flora in an area of Gorilla research in Gabon. I certainly have only heard of Scadoxus multiflorus and puniceus. Dash might know the answer . Rob From ???@??? Sat Jul 27 09:34:39 2002 Message-Id: From: Elizabeth Waterman Subject: Haemanthus Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:25:25 -0700 Dear Mary Sue, Yes the Haemanthus was for sale $20 I think. No I didn't buy it. I don't have any information about it, I was just going by the plant tag. Now I think there may have been an accession number on the tag but I didn't check it out. Liz From ???@??? Sat Jul 27 10:30:52 2002 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Haemanthus ? Scadoxus Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:00:39 -0700 on 7/27/02 4:28 AM, Robert Hamilton at robhamilton@trump.net.au wrote: > I have since done a search and found Scadoxus cinnabarina > mentioned as part of the flora in an area of Gorilla research in > Gabon. > > I certainly have only heard of Scadoxus multiflorus and puniceus. > Rob It is indeed Scadoxus. I heed that one to round out my collection. Doug Westfall From ???@??? Sat Jul 27 12:01:47 2002 Message-Id: From: "Floral Artistry" Subject: Agapanhus info Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 11:51:15 -0700 I have some thoughts or using some of the nicer agapanthus varieties for a few clients but I wanted to get some feed back from people who have different varieties. I love the dwarf variegates but I have heard they don't flower as well as the green forms. Also, which ones flower longer, produce more flowers and which ones are early and which ones are late flowering. The only ones that I have seem available are: Tinkerbell Peter Pan Ellamae Elaine Silver Streak Getty White Queen Anne Storm Cloud There are more but these are the majority. John Ingram jjingram@adelphia.net www.floralartistry.org From ???@??? Sat Jul 27 18:59:29 2002 Message-Id: From: "Daryl Geoghegan" Subject: Haemanthus ? Scadoxus Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 10:12:15 +1000 G'Day Bill and Rob, according to Deirdre Snijman' book, The genius Haemanthus, this species is included in excluded taxa.....placed into Scadoxus until more research has been done to clarify the species. According to Friis and Nordal (1976), The Genus Haemanthus, D. Snijman. Does any one in the group have access to South African Botanical updates to help clarify, or perhaps write to Deirdre? Best wishes, Dash. From ???@??? Sat Jul 27 18:59:29 2002 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Haemanthus ? Scadoxus Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 17:59:24 -0700 To the best of my knowledge, John Bryan, Dylan Hannon, and Maurice Boussard identify this as 'Scadoxus cinnabarinus.' Doug Westfall. From ???@??? Sat Jul 27 18:59:29 2002 Message-Id: From: Ken K Subject: Haemanthus Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:14:49 -0700 > > I don't have any information about it, I was just going by > the plant tag. Now I think there may have been an > accession number on the tag but I didn't check it out. Elizabeth, I bought a bulb labeled Haemanthus cinnabarinus at the U.C. Berkeley Fall or Holiday plant sale last year. Accession number 90.1638. The IBS Bulb Gallery shows a picture of Scadoxus cinnabarinus, which looks to be the same plant. One look at the one I bought told me that it is a lot more closely related to the group of plants currently placed in Scadoxus than it is Haemanthus. A Google.com search for Scadoxus cinnabarinus should turn up a few pictures elsewhere. Hope this helps. Ken From ???@??? Sat Jul 27 21:53:17 2002 Message-Id: From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Haemanthus ? Scadoxus Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 19:05:49 -0700 Dear All, As Dash points out Deirdre Snijman is the expert on all the South African amaryllids. Rod and Rachel always consult her as they do Peter Goldblatt and John Manning for many of the other bulbs. The long awaited bulb book that the three of them are writing is listed in Timber Press as coming out this fall (spring for those in Australia). What a treat that will be for all of us. Maybe we should see about some kind of a group order. Mary Sue From ???@??? Sat Jul 27 21:53:17 2002 Message-Id: From: Elizabeth Waterman Subject: Haemanthus Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 19:42:56 -0700 Hi Ken, Thanks, I just did a close-up on my original photo and see it has the same accession number. It seems that everyone agrees that it should have been labeled as Scadoxus cinnabarina. I don't know if the plant is still at the shop. The last time I posted a haemanthus for sale there, it was gone in a matter of hours. Maybe there will be another or some other gems at the fall sale. Unlike the spring sale which was canceled, the fall sale will happen on September 29th. See the web site later for more information. http://www.mip.berkeley.edu/garden/ Liz From ???@??? Sat Jul 27 21:53:17 2002 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: was soils, now plants Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 22:14:04 -0500 Whoa! Chick Starter where I grew up (Southern California) and where I lived for many years (Texas) is the finely ground up beginning feed for baby chickens....the grit they also need may be a small grind, but is still grit (in Texas usually oyster shells). Cynthia W. Mueller College Station, TX Zone 8b-9 From ???@??? Sat Jul 27 21:53:17 2002 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Haemanthus ? Scadoxus Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 20:24:40 -0700 Dash, I have the following: membranaceus, multiflorus ssp. multiflorus, multiflorus ssp. katherinae, multiflorus ssp minima, pole-evansii, nutans, puniceus, (magnificus and natalensis),and psuedocaulus ssp. prorumpens (D. Snijman, pg. 127. There may be one or two more “rare” ones of which I am not aware. Doug From ???@??? Sun Jul 28 07:43:48 2002 Message-Id: From: "Daryl Geoghegan" Subject: Haemanthus ? Scadoxus Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:02:38 +1000 Far out. I hope I can see them one day. Well done. Tell me, did you import the rarer ones as plants or seeds? Dash. Ps. If plants or seeds, can you help me out for a source of S. pole-evansii? I think this one is extraordinary! From ???@??? Sun Jul 28 13:04:40 2002 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Decomposed Granite Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 06:25:03 EDT You have to screen the D C and wash it so that it does not set up like concrete. Doug From ???@??? Sun Jul 28 13:04:40 2002 Message-Id: From: Pat Colville Subject: Rocks and stuff Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 06:25:03 EDT Decomposed Granite-----If you live in an area where the rocks in the mountains are granitic, the chances are that the sand you buy is just finer grades of the local decomposed granite. This is certainly the case here in Southern California. It is unlikely we will find a pure silica sand. I use a rather coarse ungraded sand in my potting mixes that I get in Home Depot when I can find it. Its composition is around 70% feldspar minerals, 25% quartz and 5% misc, which is what we get when granite decomposes. The feldspars will further decompose but that takes a very long time. Acids in the soil or mix help this process. Potassium and some trace elements are released in this process and clay may form. The type of clay will depend on the environment. Around here we get some kaolin but out in the desert I notice that clays like bentonite are more prevalent. It is always best to find nearby sources of heavy material like rock. I have recently been looking for high grade silica sand sources in Northern California for another purpose and have found very few. The construction sands there are mostly granitic. For instance, I have an analysis from RMC Pacific Sales, Pleasanton,( one big supplier) that is around 40% feldspar. The California Geological survey recently reported a new mine of crushed granitic construction materials was permitted near Lincoln, CA so a new source may soon be available. Unfortunately these guys do not market to people like us. They are interested in tons per day sales Pumice---I have been using pumice, especially when filling large pots. The pumice we have available here comes from volcanic deposits in the Eastern California desert and in Nevada. I have tested it and found it is mainly just foamed glass. There is a very small amount of crystalline material present. I haven't been paying attention to it breaking down but will check some pots in another year or so for clay. Of course I could use some clay in my soil (decomposed sandstone, siltstone) so maybe I should be adding some pumice there too. Glassy, foamed volcanic rock tends to break down fast in most environments because, as Paul says, it has all that surface area exposed to the weather. I recall seeing lava flows in Hawaii only a few years old with plants growing on them already. That is what a tough environment does to a weak rock. Just thinking about this stuff is causing a guilt attack over being so far behind in repotting. Pat Colville From ???@??? Sun Jul 28 13:04:40 2002 Message-Id: From: Cathy Craig Subject: Decomposed Granite Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 06:25:03 EDT Orange County Farm Supply has sold a product billed as decomposed granite. You might check out a farm supply place. I would like to try decomposed granite, especially since I hear about it being used all the time. But where does one get it? -- --Lee Poulsen From ???@??? Sun Jul 28 13:04:40 2002 Message-Id: From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Decomposed Granite Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 06:25:03 EDT Dear Lee, We purchased some of this after Diana Chapman was so enthusiastic about it. Bulbs love it I think she said. For one thing it is heavy, probably just as heavy as sand. Finding many bulbs I grow like deep pots, I was hoping for something lighter so I could lift the pots and not need to ask for help. My husband, the family shopper, brought back some from a trip to Santa Rosa. There were choices as Tom points out and he bought one that had a lot of fines not really knowing how to pick since he is not the gardener. This was probably not a good idea if you are wanting air in your mix. My experience with using it was that sometimes when I dumped out a pot that contained it in the mix there seemed to be something growing in the mix that was not growing in other mixes. I couldn't see any improvement from other mixes and was worried about what that white growth could be. So I wouldn't buy it again. Maybe without the fines it would have been better. Diana didn't purchase what she used I don't think, but at one time had a source in the wild. I have a memory from the IBS forum that someone promoted something better than turface or profile, but haven't been able to find it when I have looked through what I have saved. Once I was able to get a local hardware store to order profile for me, but they said the warehouse was not going to stock it anymore. The places on the web site that are supposed to carry it here, don't, although they carry other Schultz products. But thanks for the suggestions of other places to look. So we have two votes (Diana's from the past and Doug's from the present) for decomposed granite and one vote (mine) against. I partly used it because I thought it would add minerals you wouldn't find in sand. Anyone else add it to their mix? Tom, have you used it? Mary Sue From ???@??? Sun Jul 28 13:04:40 2002 Message-Id: From: Lisa and Al Flaum Subject: Decomposed Granite Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 06:25:03 EDT Hi Mary Sue, I use granite chicken grit, which is probably much the same as decomposed granite I buy 50# bags at the local feed store for $5.50. My preference is for grower grit Turkey is too big and starter is too small, though I sometimes use it in seed mixes. Anything I pot up has at least 1 part in 4 of this stuff, most bulbs have at least 1 part in 3. I've just started using traction sand in pots of succulents and some larger aridland bulbs (Rauhia, for instance). I like the look and the texture, but it will be a while before I know if its really beneficial. Lisa From ???@??? Sun Jul 28 13:04:40 2002 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Decomposed Granite Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 06:25:03 EDT No, it isn't. The decomposed granite I've seen, admittedly in the wild, has more fines and is rougher than the chicken grit, which is crushed granite. I use fine granite grit as a topdressing on seed pots, and a larger size as topdressing on pots of alpines. It is heavy and, I think, pretty nonreactive, not breaking down over the years. I get it in several sizes from a rock company. The soil where my brother lives between Monterey and Salinas is known as decomposed granite, but it has a lot of fines and sets like concrete in the summer. There are a number of native bulbs there, so obviously they are happy down under the hard crust. The traction sand Lisa mentions must be similar to what I get as pit run sand from our local quarry. It is high up on a mountain river and is very sharp and coarse -- quite different from the builder's sand sold just 30 miles downriver in Portland. Apparently it doesn't make very good concrete, but it is beloved by plants. Some alpine growers wash their sand to remove the fines, but I think this is a bad idea for most plants, including bulbs, because the available nutrients are likely to be in the fines. The vigorous growth of plants in fresh sand here testifies to the presence of nutrients, probably not just minerals but also organic material from snowmelt runoff. I have a sand and gravel berm where the species Alstroemerias look every bit as happy as they do on railroad embankments in Chile. That was an interesting note by Paul Chapman on the crystalline structure of granite and pumice. I'll have to look at some pumice under a microscope! Jane McGary NW Oregon Land of volcanic rock From ???@??? Sun Jul 28 13:11:27 2002 Message-Id: From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Scadoxus Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 14:44:11 -0500 Doug, Can you tell me anything about the Scadoxus membranaceus, such as when it blooms? Mine were received in 2000 as what I thought were good sized plants. So far none have bloomed. Mine are evergreen, in the same cool greenhouse on the same bench where S. multiflorus katherinae is deciduous for 2 or 3 months each winter. I had my first S. puniceus bloom in that same greenhouse this past spring. The puniceus and the katherinae were all grown from seed. I too would like very much to add S. cinnebarinus and S. pole-evansi to my Scadoxus collection! If any seeds or plants turn up at future UC plant sales, I beg you noble Californians to keep me in mind! Thanks! Jim Shields in hot, steamy central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. +1-317-896-3925 From ???@??? Tue Jul 30 09:48:01 2002 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20020729105244.00bab840@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Merendera--proposed topic of the week Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:04:54 -0700 Dear All, I'm going to borrow a little from the Australian list and see if we could get some of those members to tell us a little about Merendera. It was suggested as a topic of the week when I was doing that for IBS, but didn't get enough votes. And it is blooming now in the southern hemisphere. Maybe Jane, Lauw (if he has time), and Peter can add to this discussion too. I know nothing about this genus. Brian Mathew in his Growing Bulbs book describes it as a small genus from south Europe and western to central Asia, sometimes merged with Colchicum, with erect funnel-shaped white, pink or purple flowers in autumn or spring; they differ from colchicums in having no tube to the flower, the six segments all separtate. His further description makes it sound like many of us could grow these. So could Lyn and Rob from Australia tell us a bit more about them and how they grow them and of course we hope anyone else who grows them will report their experiences as well. There have been pictures on the Australian image list. Mary Sue From ???@??? Tue Jul 30 09:48:01 2002 Message-Id: From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: Merendera--proposed topic of the week Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 17:53:03 +1000 Mary Sue et al., Merendera are not just flowering in the southern hemisphere, flowering time is getting much closer here in the eastern US ! My 'year' always starts in September, and Merendera montana (syn. pyrenaica) is never far from being the first to welcome in the 'New Year', along with Sternbergia sicula and other early Colchicums such as C. macrophyllum and some of the early dwarf species. I grow several accessions from the Pyrenees and northern Spain, each varying in depth of color (pink), some have a bicolor effect. They also vary a little in flowering time - my 5 collections initiating flowering over a three week period. They make fine pot specimens but also do very well here in the open ground, being hardy to at least zone 6. They look superb in full sun when the open flowers lie fully prostrate on the ground like large pink stars. The first evidence of their reappearance is the sight of a pinkish-white bud nosing through the grit. They are very easy to grow and simple to propagate, flowering-size corms making at least one offset a year. Seedlings reach flowering size in around 4 years. Compost should be the standard alpine bulb mix - drainage being the key. Best, John Dr John T Lonsdale 407 Edgewood Drive Exton PA 19341 USA 610 594 9232 - phone 801 327 1266 - fax Zone 6b From ???@??? Tue Jul 30 09:48:01 2002 Message-Id: From: "Lyn Edwards" Subject: Merenderas Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 17:53:03 +1000 Greetings all, We did discuss Merenderas recently on the Australian Bulb Association forum. I have only two, M.montana and M. robusta.I would grow more if I could find them but have to make do with what I have. Rob spoke about another but that is for him to write about.M.montana flowers here in mid March with some of the early colchicums and like them without leaf growth, they do look like spidery pink colchicum flowers but opening flat on soil level, just a little different. M.robusta flowers in July in the middle of winter with some of the very late colchicums,the flowers are quite small white ones compared to montana and appearing with the leaves.The soil where I live is very heavy clay so I grow mine in pots using a mix of 1/2 a standard potting mix and half coarse river sand with some long term fertilizer added. Merenderas aren,t widely grown here but they should be as they are something a little different and certainly are not difficult. When the leaves die down in late spring I just put the pots in an out of the way place in cool shade and leave till the next growing season.They get water when it rains. This is a fairly low rainfall area with most rain generally falling in Autumn, Winter and Spring and mostly storm rain in our dry low humidity Summers. The varieties mentioned by Dr.John Lonsdale sound fascinating. Lyn Edwards Canberra Australia approx. zone 8 USDA From ???@??? Tues Jul 29 13:05:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from psmtp.com (exprod5mx4.psmtp.com [64.75.1.144]) by mail.mcn.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id g6U0nL9i022592; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:49:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from source ([204.189.12.62]) by exprod5mx4.postini.com ([64.75.1.251]) with SMTP; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:49:18 PDT Received: from johnlonsdale.net by listserv.mcn.org with SMTP; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:49:04 -0700 Message-ID: <002d01c23762$eab8d6a0$6501a8c0@John> Reply-To: "Pacific Bulb Society" From: "John Lonsdale" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" References: <4.2.2.20020729105244.00bab840@mail.mcn.org> <001501c2375a$a3e392e0$6501a8c0@John> <3D45E5E3.1040100@nj.rr.com> Subject: 'alpine bulb mix' Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 20:49:07 -0400 Coming from an alpine background in the UK (7 years ago now), where all God-fearing composts contained some form of John Innes loam-based compost, mixed with various grits and a touch of peat, it still makes me cringe to admit that I now use.........composted peanut hulls (in the form of BioComp BC5) mixed with a least 50% supercoarse perlite. I've been using this mix for 3-4 years for everything that I grow, and also sow seeds onto the same compost. It wets easily, holds water nicely, has exceptional air holding capacity and is very light. For some of the more moisture sensitive Juno and Onco irises I mix in some grower grade grani-grit, but don't think this is important other than possibly making the compost faster drying when watering stops in early June. I grow a wide range of bulbs from seed (iris, erythronium, corydalis, calochortus, crocus, fritillaria, colchicum, narcissus, tecophilea, etc.) and germination and seedling growth are robust, with constant weak in-line feeding. Mature bulbs also are happy, although I try to get as much as possible into the garden if there is a chance of it being hardy. Hope this helps. J. Dr John T Lonsdale 407 Edgewood Drive Exton PA 19341 USA 610 594 9232 - phone 801 327 1266 - fax Zone 6b From ???@??? Tues Jul 30 13:05:34 2002 To: "Pacific Bulb Society" From: "Mary Sue Ittner " > Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 17:27:45 -0700 Subject: Re: 'alpine bulb mix' Dear John, I looked up BioComp BC5 and composted peanut hulls on Google and didn't find much about availability, but find your comments fascinating. Is this something you mostly find in the Eastern part of the U.S.? Also you hear such dire warnings about perlite. I know Roy Sachs uses it, but it makes me cough if it dries out even a little. But you grow many things I want to grow successfully. When peanut hulls break down I wonder what they might have in the way of nutrients. I continue to find it amazing all the different mixes people use to grow bulbs. Your description of its properties make it sound ideal. Thanks for sharing it and telling us about what you grow. Mary Sue From ???@??? Tues Jul 30 13:05:34 2002 To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Subject: Re: 'alpine bulb mix' From: "John Lonsdale" Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:59:23 -0400 Mary Sue, The compost originates from a company in the deep south where I assume they have a surplus of peanut hulls. It is made by BioComp Inc, Airport Industrial Park, Edenton, NC. They distribute up and down the east coast. It certainly should be treated as nutrient depleted very soon after you pot up and start watering - hence my regular in-line feeds with Miracle-Gro. Re. perlite - the real dodgy period is mixing the compost. Folks say wet it before use but that only works if you use tiny amounts, and then I guess it is a pig to mix. I just wear a dust mask whilst measuring and mixing, then leave the basement for a few minutes whilst the dust settles. Once mixed I don't find problems, even if it gets dry. J. Dr John T Lonsdale 407 Edgewood Drive Exton PA 19341 USA From ???@??? Tue Jul 30 07:00:38 2002 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: BX 2 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:10:01 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 2" in the subject line. Specify the numbers of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer for you order. Each item costs US$2.00 to cover first-class postage and packing. It is a good idea to include you snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send clean, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA 18928, USA. OFFERINGS - BX 2: SEED: From Mary Sue Ittner : 1. Albuca canadensis (syn. A. flaccida) 2. Fritillaria biflora biflora (syn. roderickii) 3. Triteleia ixioides ssp. scabra - early good yellow 4. Ferraria uncinata 5. Gladiolus angustus 6. Delphinium patens patens 7. Tulipa linifolia 8. Calochortus albus From Cynthia Mueller: 9. Habranthus tubispathus (syn. H. texanus) Copper rain lily 10. Mixed garden amaryllis (Hippeastrum hybs.) CORMS: From Joyce Miller: 11. Ferraria ferrariola 12. Ferraria crispa 13. Ferraria sp. green Thank you Mary Sue, Cynthia, and Joyce !! Best wishes: Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From ???@??? Tue Jul 30 13:48:53 2002 Message-Id: From: Joyce Miller Subject: Calochortus Seed judgement call Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:45:00 -0700 Dear All, Two weeks ago, I dug some Calochortus (pussy ear type) bulbs from an undeveloped wild area behind my sister's home, in Bend, OR. Although the flowers were in full bloom, a few with a seed pods and a few with buds showing, I found the ground at bulb level was bone dry. In fact, the stalk was already brown and dry. Just below soil level, a bulbil had formed. I managed to salvage 3 bulbs and about 5 flower stems. The flowers wilted immediately, but revived as soon as they were put in water. I gathered a small amount of just damp ground from my sister's garden into a zip lock bag, stuck the stalk ends into the damp soil, and closed the zip top as far as it would go. Now, two weeks later, the seed pods seem to be maturing and drying. One bulbil has expanded in size. At this point I do not have enough confidence to cut the dry stalks and let the seed pod dry on its own. And, how should I treat the bulbil? What say my bettors? Kind regards, Joyce Miller Joyce E. Miller Zone USDA 9A Summer highs 100+degrees F for several to many days.Winter lows 27 degrees F From ???@??? Tue Jul 30 18:09:08 2002 Message-Id: From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Calochortus Seed judgement call Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 17:42:24 -0700 Dear Joyce, I was just about to take a stab at this one until I read: What say my bettors? How could anyone answer that? Do I understand that you replanted the bulbs and are wondering about when to harvest the seeds? Or did you just stick the pod in soil? Didn't someone say sometimes you could put flowers in water and seed would continue to ripen? I'm not answering mind you because I don't consider myself your bettor, but will comment that the Robinetts told me you could harvest Calochortus seed (pick the pods) before they were completely dry and open and the seed would still be viable. I've done it with some of the local Calochortus uniflorus that have pretty markings since I can never find them later to collect seed after they are dried out. I just put them in a warm place (upstairs this time of year) and let them open naturally. Mary Sue From ???@??? Tue Jul 30 19:03:32 2002 Message-Id: From: Joyce Miller Subject: Calochortus Seed judgement call Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:27:29 -0700 Dear Mary Sue, In terms of experience growing Calochortus, you are my bettor. This spring I had my first Calochortus bloom and I am sure it came from a bulb you donated. I do not devalue my skill, however, I honestly recognize the areas in which I have not accumulated growing experience. Calochortus have special germinating and summer dry requirements. I am finally to the point of turning full attention to this beautiful bulb. What I did was stick the drying stalks in damp soil. My question was whether, if the stalk appeared brown and dry, would it be safe to cut the pod from the stalk and let it ripen in a warm place. The bulbs themselves are not planted and are awaiting fall planting. Ditto all but one bulbil. Best, Joyce Kind regards, Joyce Miller Zone USDA 9A Summer highs 100+degrees F for several to many days. Winter lows 27 degrees F From ???@??? Tue Jul 30 19:19:09 2002 Message-Id: From: DrR Hamilton Subject: Merenderas Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:04:52 +1000 Hi all, As Mary Sue says they are really like small Colchicum with a couple of differences - no perianth tube and 3 styles. They seem to grow as easily as Cochicum - I grow them in standard potting mix. I grow the common M montanum which has rosy lilac flowers which open to lay flat on the ground - its about 5cm accross when fully open in the sun. It flowers in autumn and its blooms are very tasty to slugs and snails. The other I grow was obtained at M eichleri from a seed distribution. The corm is a very much enlonagted stolon like structure 2-3 mm wide and up to 5cm long. Very easily broken at digging or repotting. It has the typical top and bottom of a colchicum corm. On doing my homework I find that Brian Mathew says that M sobolifera is the only species with a stolon-like corm - so this is apparently what I have. It has small creamy white flowers with lilac tips to the petals on the only flower I have this year. It is in flower at this time . Like Lyn says if there were more avaiable I would grow them. (But I guess you could say that about almost any bulb genera.) Rob Dr R F Hamilton, 7 Beach Road, Snug 7054 Tasmania, Australia Temperate Marine Climate (USDA 8/9) Average Garden Rainfall 26.7 inches- fairly evenly spread (range 21-36) Temperature extremes -2 C , 38 C. From ???@??? Tue Jul 30 19:19:09 2002 Message-Id: From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Calochortus Seed judgement call Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:18:54 -0700 Dear Joyce, If the stalk is brown and dry I think you could cut the pod and ripen it elsewhere. If it is as you have stated it will open soon. It is what I do. I usually leave my Calochortus pots in the shade during the summer and repot in fall, but don't water till it starts raining. (Except for C. nitidus which thanks to Mike Mace's advice of some water year round bloomed for me this past summer after I did that last year). It is maybe a matter of not getting to them right away as I deal with the South Africans first. I have also dumped them out and stored them in brown bags inside. Most people add some dry material like peat moss to keep them from drying out if they store them especially if they are little, but some of the bigger bulbs seem tough to me. Calochortus tolmiei which is native around here and always delights me during my spring hikes when I see it on the bluffs near the ocean, short in the grass, dwindles a bit for me so perhaps someone else has better advice. I keep trying with it since it is one of my favorites. I hope you are successful with it. Mary Sue From ???@??? Tue Jul 30 20:09:28 2002 Message-Id: From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: Perlite Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:28:43 -0400 Vermiculate mined in Montana has been shown to be the cause of numerous mesotheliomas - not due to the vermiculite, but caused by the presence of other fibrous minerals in the vermiculite which possess properties very similar to asbestos. To the best of my knowledge perlite has never been shown to be associated with pneumoconiosis or other related lung disorders, even in miners with up to 20 years exposure. Perlite has been characterized by several sources (ACGIH, OSHA, etc.) as a nuisance or inert dust. Exposure to such dusts can sometimes result in temporary physical irritation, discomfort, impaired visibility, and enhancement of accident potential, but not to health impairment. Inhalation over long periods of high concentrations of any nuisance dust are undesirable as it may interfere with the lung clearance mechanism. In addition, coughing and temporary irritation and inflammation of the eyes, throat and nasal passages can occur as a result of overexposure. Repeated handling or contact may also result in some drying effects of the skin or slight skin abrasions as might occur with any mineral dust. In similar vein, the following is excerpted from a Materials Safety Data Sheet which must accompany all 'chemicals' when shipped/sold. "Summary: Perlite is a naturally occurring volcanic glass consisting of fused sodium*potassium*aluminum silicate. OSHA has classified perlite as a Particulate Not Otherwise Regulated (PNOR), which has the same Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL) as that used for nuisance and inert dusts. Although there are no published reports of adverse health effects from exposure to perlite dust, dust levels should be maintained below the OSHA PEL for PNORs and respirators should be used when airborne dust is present. Excessive inhalation over long periods of time may cause harmful irritation. Perlite is considered a nuisance dust by ACGIH. Medical conditions which may be aggravated: pre-existing upper respiratory and lung disease such as, but not limited to bronchitis, emphysema and asthma. Target Organs: Lungs, eyes. Route of Entry: Inhalation, dust contact with the eyes. Acute Health Effects: Transitory upper respiratory irritant. May cause coughing or throat irritation. Chronic Health Effects: Excessive inhalation of any mineral dust can overload the lung clearance mechanism." If we stick to the facts it makes it a lot easier for folks to make objective and reasonable decisions. J. Dr John T Lonsdale Zone 6b From ???@??? Wed Jul 31 15:02:53 2002 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Scadoxus membranaceus Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:28:09 -0700 Jim, I know that I answered your question before. I'm not certain that you got what you were looking for. I just came in from checking one of my "growing areas," and there is another S.membranaceus flower "spike" showing in one of the pots. I take it that you have tried "methods" that you have used with other Scadoxus and they have not produced blooming results? What size are your bulbs? Generally the "bulbs" are not large, but they do have rather extensive root mass. For that reason, they are "deceptive" as to the required pot size. They can use a minimal 8in. pot, good drainage, and some shade. Scadoxus, in general, thrive on shaded, bright light. Does that give you a slight clue? If you have more specifics, please ask as I think I am just being too general. Doug From ???@??? Wed Jul 31 20:49:45 2002 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20020731200516.00b85dd0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Merenderas Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:11:05 -0700 Dear All, I found an interesting post from Alberto Castillo about these bulbs when they were recently discussed on the Australian list. I hope he won't mind my sharing. It is interesting as he talks about the difference in different hemispheres. "Merenderas, Bulbocodium, Colchicums, Fritillarias, etc do not like the overall warm temperatures of lowlands in Australia, South Africa and South America. They are a lot easier if in a Southern exposure where they receive all the cold and wind they can. A couple of hours of direct sun (in winter, none at all in summer) is enough for them (and for some no direct sun at all). This is possible because the irradiation in this Hemisphere is so intense that the plants can use it to advantage as they make use of direct sun in other latitudes. They must remain in their pots during their summer dormancy as they resent desiccation a good deal. Drainage is a must as otherwise their corms or bulbs become infected easily. It is easy to pot them and bury the pot in the garden in case one gives them the wrong spot. Clay pots( with extra drainage holes) are very good for them because of their refrigerating effect. They are among those faithful, dependable bulbs that one can have From ???@??? Tues Jul 30 13:05:34 2002 To: "Pacific Bulb Society" for many years once their requirements are met." I wonder if any of this applies to Southern California as well. The two people who are growing these in Australia have some of the colder Australian climates I think. I have one question to ask the three of you who have discussed this. How difficult is it to grow from seed? I understand Colchicum can be a bit of a challenge to germinate without fresh seed. Is this true of Merendera too? Any tips for any of us who might see some in a seed exchange and decide to try? Thanks in advance for any help. Mary Sue From ???@??? Thu Aug 01 15:24:04 2002 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Merenderas Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:27:21 -0700 Mary Sue asked, How difficult is it [Merendera] to grow from seed? I >understand Colchicum can be a bit of a challenge to germinate without fresh >seed. Is this true of Merendera too? Any tips for any of us who might see >some in a seed exchange and decide to try? Yes, it is true of both Colchicum and (if the two are still to be separated taxonomically) Merendera. Stored seed germinates poorly and may take one or two years. However, once in a while a batch of seed germinates quite well. My only tip is "Plant it and wait." I have, however, grown quite a number of species from seed, some of which have flowered by now. Note that Colchicum seed is said to be one of the most toxic parts of the plant, but I would not worry about handling it. I just repotted a lot of Colchicum corms, however, and I always wear latex gloves while handling these in quantity. I don't know if the toxin can affect one through the skin, but better to be on the safe side. (The disposable gloves are also useful if you grow a lot of hellebores and collect the seed, which can cause a painful rash. And I carry a pair in my pack in case I need to collect some nasty kind of seed in the wild. Perhaps I will be able to use them on Cajophora coronata, which John Watson calls "the legendary stinging lampshade!") As for climatic adaptability, there are some pretty tender colchicums that might perform better in mild climates. Jane McGary NW Oregon