From joakim.erson@bredband.net Thu Apr 1 07:55:21 2004 Message-Id: <001801c417e8$99ec2ca0$075471d5@justin> From: "Joakim Erson" Subject: belevalia tabrizianus Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:55:23 +0200 Hello everyone! the propagation of the bellevalia tabrizianus was a failure, after half of the flowers had been pollinated the bloomstalk aborted. Hopefully it will work better next year. Sorry. /joakim From totototo@pacificcoast.net Mon Mar 29 09:01:23 2004 Message-Id: <200403291401.i2TE1E4q029147@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Leucojum JCA 630.480 Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 06:09:49 -800 On 28 Mar 04 at 22:36, johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk wrote: > Rodger Whitlock wrote: > > > My mystery plant has fairly wide leaves, but the flowers are > > unmarked. If Brian Mathew's 1987 key is accurate, it's definitely L. > > fontianum. I wonder which group the Kew experts would place it in > > since it has the wide leaves of Leucoum sensu strictu and the > > unmarked flowers of Acis. > > The leaves are best thought of as comparatively wide, when compared > with the other members of Acis, not really so when compared with > Leucojum. The two characters I mentioned are but two easily observed > ones from a suite of differences, another being that Acis has solid > scapes compared to hollow ones in Leucojum. I should mention that my would-be L. fontianum has solid scapes. But it is certainly larger than and in regard of leaf distinct from all the other little leucoja. Oops, make that "aces". Unfortunately I have not grown L. (A.) tingitanum(a), though a helpful pbs subscriber in Australia has sent me seed of it. > > Also, does anyone know what the current thinking is on the > > relationship of L. tingitanum and L. fontianum? > > Since Dolores et al. do not mention it I assume they treat it as a > synonym of A. tingitana. Considering that Brian Mathew thought it worthy of inclusion in his 1987 key to Leucojum, it's odd that they do not even mention it. Methinks it's time for some enterprising botanist to review the type specimens of L tingitanum and L fontianum...if they still exist! There's some kind of unresolved mystery here, primarily the question of identity of L. tingitanum sensu Mathew. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Thu Apr 1 12:48:43 2004 Message-Id: <003601c417ff$2ebe9dc0$daa7403e@John> From: Subject: Acis/Leucojum Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:48:52 +0100 Dear Mary Sue, I don't know how to get to the wiki (and don't really know what a wiki is either!) Yours gormlessly, John Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Gardens Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 Mobile 07 919 840 063 Fax (Estate Office) 01242 870541 Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Sue Ittner" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:31 PM Subject: [pbs] Acis/Leucojum > Dear John, > > I made an Acis page on the wiki using the information you have provided to > this group. Hopefully you will look it over and edit it and make any > changes that are necessary to have it be correct. And if it shouldn't be > Acis tingitana I hope someone else will correct the spelling for me. This > one never was published under Acis so I couldn't look at the IPNI site to > check on the spelling and how endings are decided has always been a mystery > to me. > > Mary Sue > > >Surely Acis is masculine in gender? Shouldn't it be Acis tingitanus etc. ? > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From ggroiti@agro.uba.ar Thu Apr 1 12:37:45 2004 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040401141806.02216600@pop3.agro.uba.ar> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n?= Roitman Subject: Pictures of Herbertia Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:37:38 -0300 Dear all: I have download in my web page, just as a test, some pictures of Herbertia, hope you like them. http://www.agro.uba.ar/users/roitman/herbertia/index.html I have used a very friendly software (freeware) called jalbum, its a web photo album generator. If you are interested, you can go to: http://jalbum.net/ and download it. PD: Alberto Castillo is a little bit better now, he had fever last night but now he is ok. Best wishes Germán _______________________________________ Ing. Agr. MSc Germán Roitman mailto:groitman@mail.retina.ar Cátedra de Jardinería FAUBA Av. San Martín 4453. 1417. Buenos Aires Argentina ICQ: 1837762 _______________________________________ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.647 / Virus Database: 414 - Release Date: 29/03/2004 From ggroiti@agro.uba.ar Thu Apr 1 13:32:53 2004 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040401151747.021b0df8@pop3.agro.uba.ar> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n?= Roitman Subject: Hippeastrum or Amarillys? More controverse Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 15:32:42 -0300 Hello all: Here is an article recently published by P. Ravenna in his own Botanical Leaflets, ONIRA. I would like to share his controversial opinions with all of you. The article is longer but i only add here the Hippeastrum-Amarillys part, and the references of the hole paper. I must admit i dont agree with his statements and i would like to know what do you think about them. Looks like he didnt consider the Fourteenth International Botanical Congress in 1987. Best wishes Germán ___________________________________________________________________________ DECISIVE PROOF ON THE VALIDITY OF AMARYLLIS OVER HIPPEASTRUM AS MAINLY A SOUTH AMERICAN GENUS, INCLUDING NEW SPECIES AND NEW RECORDS OF AMARYLLIS FROM ARGENTINA, BRAZIL, AND PARAGUAY Pierfelice Ravenna Abstrac. Datation of a specimen of Brunsvigia rosea in the Clifford Herbarium at BM, revealed that it was pressed around 1794, and not earlier than 1744,As it was argued by several authors, this sheet had supposedly been studies by Lynnaeus during the specimen had been inserted much later than 1737, when this work was published and cannot be considered type of Amaryllis belladonna L. The last argument of those who wanted to hold Hippeastrum falls before this new evidence. At this stage, it is definitely proved that the latter name is a synonym of the New World genus Amaryllis. On the other hand, new species of the genera Amaryllis, and Habranthus (Amaryllidaceae), namely A. buccinata Rav., A. lavrensis Rav., H. amambaicus Rav., Hauratus Rav. Hcaaguazuensis Rav., H.calderensis Rav., Hlilaceus Rav., and Hminor Rav., are decribed. In addition, A.guarapuavica Rav., Myostemma bifida (Herb.) Rav., Habranthus teretifolium (´C.H Wr.)Tr. & Mold., H.tubispathus (L`Her.) Tr., and Hymeocallis niederlenii Pax, are reported as novelties in the Paraguayan flora. Synonymy of the treated species is revised and completed. INTRODUCTION Amaryllis L. is the proper botanical name of a showy neotropical genus. This designation is in accordance with the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature,and to several relevant works, some of them recent, by Traub (1954, 1970: see pp 46-47), and Tjaden (1979,1981).These authors, especially the latter, contributed whit new evidence that demolished the ficticius and inconsistent positions of Baker (1878,1888). Sealy (1839), Dandy & Fosberg (1954), which concur with Hebert´s(1837) arbitrary concept that the name Hippeastrum should prevail for the neotropicl species. According to these authors, Linnaeus supposedly applied the binomial Amaryllis belladonna to a South African species wich, as would be several, perfectly recognized species. As the reader will see, the matter originated from an ill- intentioned nomenclatural fraude. Sealy´ ststements are notr based on facts but on supposed circumstantial considerations. He ellucubrated on what Linaeus had thought when naming Amaryllis belladonna. Seally failed in stating that the protologue phrase '' Amaryllis spatha multiflora corollas campanulatis aequalibus genitalibus declinatis'', was used by Linnaeeus for the first time in 1737. He based it including the genus name from pre-Linnean authors. Under nr. 4 of his statements. Sealy remarks that '' the seconds species to which Linaeus referred in this note is the one he named A. Belladonna in 1753''.But the ''second'' actually refers to the Guernsey Lily, Nerine sarniensis,as Tjaden (1981) has fully demonstrated, not to Amaryllis belladonna. Actually, Miller (1755), was the first who confused the New World plant for the African now called Brunsvigia rosea; he was followed by L´ Heritier (1788). Sealy realized on the existence in the Clifford Herbarium of specimen '' immediately recognizable as the Cape belladonna. The specimen bears noname or identification, and therefore (he suitably argued) there is no ground for stating either that it is the basis of Amaryllis belladonna, or that it is the plant which Linnaeus looked in the Clifford Garden, for the specimen may have added to the herbarium after Linnaeus had left Holland. ''By exposing different mixed viewpoints. Sealy appears as showing equanimity. An expert eye will see, however, that his statement are tendentious and misleading. In his last conclusion (nr. 4) he states: ''We may therefore say that the name A. belladonna should be retained for the Cape Belladonna, and the specimen in the Clifford Herbarium may well be accepted as the lectotype. "By this he contradicted his previous appraisal (see it in bold types). The presence of this specimen appears therefore as the last heavy argument for maintaining the name Amaryllis belladonna for the African plant. Dyer´s and Dandy´s & Fosberg´s papers appear superficial and equally misleading a Sealy´s. In their last remark, the latter authors state: " The fact that every one agrees that Amaryllis must by typified by A belladonna L, makes it follow that the generic name must by applied to the African, not to the American genus." No comments to this sophism. The last argument for retaining the name Amaryllis belladonna L for the African plant now called Brunsvigia rosea (Lam.) Hann., fallsdown before the evidence that this specimen, a scape in flower, was pressed well beyond 1737, the year of publication of Hortus Cliffortianus. In fact, the writer obtained a 3- mm- long piece from the scape base, and sent it to Geochron Laboratories datation company, a division of Krueger Enterprises, of Cambridge, Massachusetts, Mr. Harry Krueger, Manager, informed that the C14 procedure on the AMS sample, revealed that the specimen was alive on a date between 1744 and 1844, on account of the markerd date. Therefore, hardly could Linnaeus had examined this material when he elaborated Hortus Cliffortianus. Who inserted the specimen in the Clifford Herbarium? Who could had special interest in doing that? The reader may judge… Hippeastrum was declared nomen genericum conservandum against Leopoldia Herb. This was a trick, since the latter is a nomen ambiguum and nomen provisorium, and therefore invalid. This action does not affect the status of the previous, validly published genus Amaryllis L. REFERENTES Arroyo- Leuenberger, S. 1996. Amaryllidaceae, in F.O. Zuloaga & O. Morrone (Eds.) Catálogo de las plantas vasculares de la Republica Argentina. Miss. Bot. Gard. Baker, J.G. 1878. Genus Hippeastrum; Trimen J. Bot. 16: 8-84. --------------- 1888. Handbook of the Amaryllidaceae, 428 pp. G. Bell & Sons, London. Dandy, J.E., and F.R. Fosberg 1954. The type of Amaryllis belladonna L; Taxon 3: 231-232. Dyer, R. A. 1954. The Cape Belladonna Lily ; 3 : 72-74. L´Hiritier de Brutelle, Ch. 1788. Sertum Anglicum, seu…, 36 pp, 34 tab. Typ. Didot, Paris. Miller, Ph. 1760. Figures of the most beautiful plants described in the Gardener´s Dictionary 1: 73, tab. 110. Herbert, W. 1837. Amaryllidaceae, 428 pp. J. Ridgway & Sons, London. Ravenna, P. 1970a. Nuevas especies de Amaryllidaceae, Notic. Mens. Mus. Nac. Hist. Nat. Santiago 269 : 1-7. --------------- 1970b. Contributions to South American Amaryllidaceae III; Pl. Life 37: 73-103, figs. 18-25. --------------- 1972. Latin American Amaryllidis 1971; Pl. Life 28: 119-127, fogs. 28-30 -------------- 1988. New species of South American Habranthus and Zephyranthes (Amaryllidaceae); Onira 1 (8): 53-56. ------------ 2003. Elucidation and systematics of the Chilean genera of Amaryllidaceae; Bot. Austr. 2, 21 pp., 12 pls. Sealy, R 1939. Amaryllis and Hippeastrum ; Bull. Misc. Inf. Kew (2): 49-60. Tjaden, W.L. 1979. Amaryllis belladonna and the Guernsey Lily: an overlooked clue; J. Soc. Biblphy. Nat. Hist. 9 (3): 251-256. ------------ 1981. Amaryllis belladonna Linn.- An up-to-date summary; Pl. Life 37: 21-26, figs. 3-5. Traub, H.P. 1954. Typification of Amaryllis belladonnaL; Taxon 3: 192-111. ------------ 1970. An Introduction of Herbert´s "Amaryllidaceae, etc." 1837 and related works. Verlag von J. Cramer, 3301 Lehre. ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________ Ing. Agr. MSc Germán Roitman mailto:groitman@mail.retina.ar Cátedra de Jardinería FAUBA Av. San Martín 4453. 1417. Buenos Aires Argentina ICQ: 1837762 _______________________________________ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.647 / Virus Database: 414 - Release Date: 29/03/2004 From miaam@ars-grin.gov Thu Apr 1 16:08:06 2004 Message-Id: <002101c4182e$ba00e6c0$344285c7@SHRS.APHIS.USDA.GOV> From: "Alan Meerow" Subject: Hippeastrum or Amarillys? More controverse Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:17:23 -0500 Ravenna is up to all his usual tricks. He publishes in his vanity press, and thereby escapes juried review; he ignores papers that conflict with his egoistic view, and rushes into print ANYTHING that he thinks someone else may be working on. The case is closed, as Germán suggests. The 14th Botanical Congress declared that Hippeastrum will forever be applied to the American amaryllis, no matter what anyone else digs up. Alan ----------------------------- Alan W. Meerow, Ph.D., Research Geneticist and Systematist USDA-ARS-SHRS, National Germplasm Repository 13601 Old Cutler Road, Miami, FL 33158 USA voice: (305) 254-3635 fax: (305) 969-6410 email: miaam@ars-grin.gov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Germán Roitman" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 1:32 PM Subject: [pbs] Hippeastrum or Amarillys? More controverse Hello all: Here is an article recently published by P. Ravenna in his own Botanical Leaflets, ONIRA. I would like to share his controversial opinions with all of you. The article is longer but i only add here the Hippeastrum-Amarillys part, and the references of the hole paper. I must admit i dont agree with his statements and i would like to know what do you think about them. Looks like he didnt consider the Fourteenth International Botanical Congress in 1987. Best wishes Germán ___________________________________________________________________________ DECISIVE PROOF ON THE VALIDITY OF AMARYLLIS OVER HIPPEASTRUM AS MAINLY A SOUTH AMERICAN GENUS, INCLUDING NEW SPECIES AND NEW RECORDS OF AMARYLLIS FROM ARGENTINA, BRAZIL, AND PARAGUAY Pierfelice Ravenna Abstrac. Datation of a specimen of Brunsvigia rosea in the Clifford Herbarium at BM, revealed that it was pressed around 1794, and not earlier than 1744,As it was argued by several authors, this sheet had supposedly been studies by Lynnaeus during the specimen had been inserted much later than 1737, when this work was published and cannot be considered type of Amaryllis belladonna L. The last argument of those who wanted to hold Hippeastrum falls before this new evidence. At this stage, it is definitely proved that the latter name is a synonym of the New World genus Amaryllis. On the other hand, new species of the genera Amaryllis, and Habranthus (Amaryllidaceae), namely A. buccinata Rav., A. lavrensis Rav., H. amambaicus Rav., Hauratus Rav. Hcaaguazuensis Rav., H.calderensis Rav., Hlilaceus Rav., and Hminor Rav., are decribed. In addition, A.guarapuavica Rav., Myostemma bifida (Herb.) Rav., Habranthus teretifolium (´C.H Wr.)Tr. & Mold., H.tubispathus (L`Her.) Tr., and Hymeocallis niederlenii Pax, are reported as novelties in the Paraguayan flora. Synonymy of the treated species is revised and completed. INTRODUCTION Amaryllis L. is the proper botanical name of a showy neotropical genus. This designation is in accordance with the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature,and to several relevant works, some of them recent, by Traub (1954, 1970: see pp 46-47), and Tjaden (1979,1981).These authors, especially the latter, contributed whit new evidence that demolished the ficticius and inconsistent positions of Baker (1878,1888). Sealy (1839), Dandy & Fosberg (1954), which concur with Hebert´s(1837) arbitrary concept that the name Hippeastrum should prevail for the neotropicl species. According to these authors, Linnaeus supposedly applied the binomial Amaryllis belladonna to a South African species wich, as would be several, perfectly recognized species. As the reader will see, the matter originated from an ill- intentioned nomenclatural fraude. Sealy´ ststements are notr based on facts but on supposed circumstantial considerations. He ellucubrated on what Linaeus had thought when naming Amaryllis belladonna. Seally failed in stating that the protologue phrase '' Amaryllis spatha multiflora corollas campanulatis aequalibus genitalibus declinatis'', was used by Linnaeeus for the first time in 1737. He based it including the genus name from pre-Linnean authors. Under nr. 4 of his statements. Sealy remarks that '' the seconds species to which Linaeus referred in this note is the one he named A. Belladonna in 1753''.But the ''second'' actually refers to the Guernsey Lily, Nerine sarniensis,as Tjaden (1981) has fully demonstrated, not to Amaryllis belladonna. Actually, Miller (1755), was the first who confused the New World plant for the African now called Brunsvigia rosea; he was followed by L´ Heritier (1788). Sealy realized on the existence in the Clifford Herbarium of specimen '' immediately recognizable as the Cape belladonna. The specimen bears noname or identification, and therefore (he suitably argued) there is no ground for stating either that it is the basis of Amaryllis belladonna, or that it is the plant which Linnaeus looked in the Clifford Garden, for the specimen may have added to the herbarium after Linnaeus had left Holland. ''By exposing different mixed viewpoints. Sealy appears as showing equanimity. An expert eye will see, however, that his statement are tendentious and misleading. In his last conclusion (nr. 4) he states: ''We may therefore say that the name A. belladonna should be retained for the Cape Belladonna, and the specimen in the Clifford Herbarium may well be accepted as the lectotype. "By this he contradicted his previous appraisal (see it in bold types). The presence of this specimen appears therefore as the last heavy argument for maintaining the name Amaryllis belladonna for the African plant. Dyer´s and Dandy´s & Fosberg´s papers appear superficial and equally misleading a Sealy´s. In their last remark, the latter authors state: " The fact that every one agrees that Amaryllis must by typified by A belladonna L, makes it follow that the generic name must by applied to the African, not to the American genus." No comments to this sophism. The last argument for retaining the name Amaryllis belladonna L for the African plant now called Brunsvigia rosea (Lam.) Hann., fallsdown before the evidence that this specimen, a scape in flower, was pressed well beyond 1737, the year of publication of Hortus Cliffortianus. In fact, the writer obtained a 3- mm- long piece from the scape base, and sent it to Geochron Laboratories datation company, a division of Krueger Enterprises, of Cambridge, Massachusetts, Mr. Harry Krueger, Manager, informed that the C14 procedure on the AMS sample, revealed that the specimen was alive on a date between 1744 and 1844, on account of the markerd date. Therefore, hardly could Linnaeus had examined this material when he elaborated Hortus Cliffortianus. Who inserted the specimen in the Clifford Herbarium? Who could had special interest in doing that? The reader may judge. Hippeastrum was declared nomen genericum conservandum against Leopoldia Herb. This was a trick, since the latter is a nomen ambiguum and nomen provisorium, and therefore invalid. This action does not affect the status of the previous, validly published genus Amaryllis L. REFERENTES Arroyo- Leuenberger, S. 1996. Amaryllidaceae, in F.O. Zuloaga & O. Morrone (Eds.) Catálogo de las plantas vasculares de la Republica Argentina. Miss. Bot. Gard. Baker, J.G. 1878. Genus Hippeastrum; Trimen J. Bot. 16: 8-84. --------------- 1888. Handbook of the Amaryllidaceae, 428 pp. G. Bell & Sons, London. Dandy, J.E., and F.R. Fosberg 1954. The type of Amaryllis belladonna L; Taxon 3: 231-232. Dyer, R. A. 1954. The Cape Belladonna Lily ; 3 : 72-74. L´Hiritier de Brutelle, Ch. 1788. Sertum Anglicum, seu., 36 pp, 34 tab. Typ. Didot, Paris. Miller, Ph. 1760. Figures of the most beautiful plants described in the Gardener´s Dictionary 1: 73, tab. 110. Herbert, W. 1837. Amaryllidaceae, 428 pp. J. Ridgway & Sons, London. Ravenna, P. 1970a. Nuevas especies de Amaryllidaceae, Notic. Mens. Mus. Nac. Hist. Nat. Santiago 269 : 1-7. --------------- 1970b. Contributions to South American Amaryllidaceae III; Pl. Life 37: 73-103, figs. 18-25. --------------- 1972. Latin American Amaryllidis 1971; Pl. Life 28: 119-127, fogs. 28-30 -------------- 1988. New species of South American Habranthus and Zephyranthes (Amaryllidaceae); Onira 1 (8): 53-56. ------------ 2003. Elucidation and systematics of the Chilean genera of Amaryllidaceae; Bot. Austr. 2, 21 pp., 12 pls. Sealy, R 1939. Amaryllis and Hippeastrum ; Bull. Misc. Inf. Kew (2): 49-60. Tjaden, W.L. 1979. Amaryllis belladonna and the Guernsey Lily: an overlooked clue; J. Soc. Biblphy. Nat. Hist. 9 (3): 251-256. ------------ 1981. Amaryllis belladonna Linn.- An up-to-date summary; Pl. Life 37: 21-26, figs. 3-5. Traub, H.P. 1954. Typification of Amaryllis belladonnaL; Taxon 3: 192-111. ------------ 1970. An Introduction of Herbert´s "Amaryllidaceae, etc." 1837 and related works. Verlag von J. Cramer, 3301 Lehre. ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________ Ing. Agr. MSc Germán Roitman mailto:groitman@mail.retina.ar Cátedra de Jardinería FAUBA Av. San Martín 4453. 1417. Buenos Aires Argentina ICQ: 1837762 _______________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.647 / Virus Database: 414 - Release Date: 29/03/2004 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Thu Apr 1 16:39:43 2004 Message-Id: <003401c41831$babe14e0$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Hippeastrum or Amarillys? More controverse Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:38:53 -0500 Maybe we should all reach out to Sr. Ravenna and show him its ok not find a new species in every specimen encountered. Kevin Preuss From msittner@mcn.org Thu Apr 1 18:56:41 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040331210611.014a67e0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Recent Images on the Wiki #3 Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 15:54:42 -0800 Dear All, Here are some unannounced images that have been recently added to the wiki. Jane added a picture of Narcissus obesus to the Narcissus page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Narcissus In honor of Jennifer I added a picture of Freesia fergusoniae to the Freesia page. It is orange and yellow and very fragrant: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Freesia Jim Robinett gave me some corms which I shared with a lot of people that were mystery corms. I finally keyed them out to Freesia fergusoniae and Freesia refracta. They were mixed together and I haven't yet managed to get them in different pots. Last year I tried to separate them by looking at the corms, but that didn't work. Their leaves are quite different however and F. fergusoniae leans while the other is upright. Jane McGary added a picture of Tulipa cretica to the Tulipa page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tulipa Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From Run007CB@aol.com Thu Apr 1 21:32:46 2004 Message-Id: <7c.442d82f0.2d9e2ac3@aol.com> From: Run007CB@aol.com Subject: Growing conditions for Z. Candida Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:32:35 EST Hey, A while back, someone mentioned about growing pots of Z. Candida in trays of water. I was wondering, was there a particular season to keep them damp, or was this a year round thing. Charles Edelman South Texas, 75-80 degrees and sunny From c-mueller@tamu.edu Thu Apr 1 21:48:39 2004 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: Growing conditions for Z. Candida Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 20:48:10 -0600 Charles Edelman mentioned, " A while back, someone mentioned about growing pots of Z. Candida in trays of water. I was wondering, was there a particular season to keep them damp, or was this a year round thing." Charles, in Central Texas they do well planted in ordinary garden conditions, and as a matter of fact don't mind blooming even if they are watered regularly by a sprinkling system. Sometimes, during times of rain especially in the winter, they are in wet soil for weeks at a time. Of course, here they never go dormant. Cynthia W. Mueller College Station, TX Zone 8b-9 - 84 degrees F today From dkramb@badbear.com Thu Apr 1 21:54:23 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040401214026.00bb80b0@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Pictures of Herbertia Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 21:54:23 -0500 Hello all! I figured it's time to introduce myself. My name is Dennis Kramb, and I'm from Cincinnati, Ohio, USA. Anyone here into irises has probably heard of me before. I've been actively involved with several iris groups for a few years now including ASI, SIGNA, SLI, and AIS. I recently took over as Aril Society webmaster, and I also started the SIGNA iris species web database a few months back. This PBS mail group has heavy traffic compared to what I'm used to. Much of it is over my head and/or about plants I could never hope to grow in my Zone 6 garden. But I'm THRILLED at some of the messages, such as this one from Germán, with the outstanding photos of Herbertia. I've been lurking here for a while now, and started posting messages in just the last few days. I recognize a few names here so far, such as Bob Pries and Jim Waddick. (Hi guys!) But most of your are new, and I'm looking forward to making some new friends here. For those of you interested in seeing some of my work, you can check them out at http://www.arilsociety.org/ http://www.badbear.com/signa http://www.badbear.com/dkramb I'm just an average gardener with an above average interest in certain flowers, such as irises. I don't have any scientific background in botany, nor any special place to grow my plants. But that doesn't diminish my enthusiasm. I'm not fond of container gardening, so anything I grow has to be tough enough to survive on its own outside in Ohio's very cold very snowless winters. Louisiana irises have been a surprising success here. I can't hardly believe that wild collected plants from the deep south (USA) can thrive here, but they do! Some aril (regelia) species do really well here too. Warmest Regards, Dennis in a very chilly Cincinnati, Ohio At 02:37 PM 4/1/2004 -0300, you wrote: >Dear all: > >I have download in my web page, just as a test, some pictures of >Herbertia, hope you like them. > >http://www.agro.uba.ar/users/roitman/herbertia/index.html > >I have used a very friendly software (freeware) called jalbum, its a web >photo album generator. If you are interested, you can go to: > >http://jalbum.net/ > >and download it. > >PD: Alberto Castillo is a little bit better now, he had fever last night >but now he is ok. > >Best wishes > >Germán > > > >_______________________________________ >Ing. Agr. MSc Germán Roitman >mailto:groitman@mail.retina.ar >Cátedra de Jardinería FAUBA >Av. San Martín 4453. 1417. Buenos Aires >Argentina >ICQ: 1837762 >_______________________________________ > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.647 / Virus Database: 414 - Release Date: 29/03/2004 >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Apr 2 11:25:43 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040402082008.017110d8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Tecophilaea rediscovered Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:25:33 -0800 Rodger Whitlock wrote,I hope everyone will forgive me for being such a cynic, but I >wouldn't be surprised to read that this population [of Tecophilaea] has >already been >collected out of existence by unscrupulous nurserymen. > >It is to be hoped that the government of Chile mounts effective guard >over this precious treasure. This gives me a chance to quote one of John Watson's best lines (I'm quoting from memory, so this may not be utterly verbatim), to the effect that the assumed extinction of T. cyanocrocus was "more likely to have resulted from overgrazing than from spade-wielding peasants in the pay of villainous Dutchmen." The habitat of this plant has been subjected to cattle and goat grazing at a level utterly unsustainable in such an arid environment for more than three centuries, so that in many areas little remains but seriously spiny shrubs and unpalatable plants such as the cushion umbellifers. In fact, Chile has an active conservation community, although excluding local pastoralists from sensitive sites is very difficult for them. One result of this activism is extreme difficulty in getting permits to take native plant material out of Chile, including seeds. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Fri Apr 2 11:27:18 2004 Message-Id: <406D9AAB.2CBB3999@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Pictures of Herbertia Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:54:03 -0800 Dear Dennis: Welcome, enjoyed your postings, excellent pictures, thanks! As an Iris grower, do you have any comments on Barbara Lawton's book Magic of Irises? Would be interested to know. Cheers, John E. Bryan Dennis Kramb wrote: > > Hello all! I figured it's time to introduce myself. My name is Dennis > Kramb, and I'm from Cincinnati, Ohio, USA. Anyone here into irises has > probably heard of me before. I've been actively involved with several iris > groups for a few years now including ASI, SIGNA, SLI, and AIS. I recently > took over as Aril Society webmaster, and I also started the SIGNA iris > species web database a few months back. > > This PBS mail group has heavy traffic compared to what I'm used to. Much > of it is over my head and/or about plants I could never hope to grow in my > Zone 6 garden. But I'm THRILLED at some of the messages, such as this one > from Germán, with the outstanding photos of Herbertia. I've been lurking > here for a while now, and started posting messages in just the last few > days. I recognize a few names here so far, such as Bob Pries and Jim > Waddick. (Hi guys!) But most of your are new, and I'm looking forward to > making some new friends here. > > For those of you interested in seeing some of my work, you can check them > out at > http://www.arilsociety.org/ > http://www.badbear.com/signa > http://www.badbear.com/dkramb > > I'm just an average gardener with an above average interest in certain > flowers, such as irises. I don't have any scientific background in botany, > nor any special place to grow my plants. But that doesn't diminish my > enthusiasm. I'm not fond of container gardening, so anything I grow has to > be tough enough to survive on its own outside in Ohio's very cold very > snowless winters. Louisiana irises have been a surprising success here. I > can't hardly believe that wild collected plants from the deep south (USA) > can thrive here, but they do! Some aril (regelia) species do really well > here too. > > Warmest Regards, > Dennis in a very chilly Cincinnati, Ohio > > At 02:37 PM 4/1/2004 -0300, you wrote: > >Dear all: > > > >I have download in my web page, just as a test, some pictures of > >Herbertia, hope you like them. > > > >http://www.agro.uba.ar/users/roitman/herbertia/index.html > > > >I have used a very friendly software (freeware) called jalbum, its a web > >photo album generator. If you are interested, you can go to: > > > >http://jalbum.net/ > > > >and download it. > > > >PD: Alberto Castillo is a little bit better now, he had fever last night > >but now he is ok. > > > >Best wishes > > > >Germán > > > > > > > >_______________________________________ > >Ing. Agr. MSc Germán Roitman > >mailto:groitman@mail.retina.ar > >Cátedra de Jardinería FAUBA > >Av. San Martín 4453. 1417. Buenos Aires > >Argentina > >ICQ: 1837762 > >_______________________________________ > > > > > >--- > >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > >Version: 6.0.647 / Virus Database: 414 - Release Date: 29/03/2004 > >_______________________________________________ > >pbs mailing list > >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Fri Apr 2 13:37:05 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040401160949.00d0d550@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Recent Images on the Wiki #4 Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:34:24 -0800 Dear All, Jane McGary added a picture of Iris graeberana 'White Fall' to the wiki Iris page. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Iris I summarized all the contributions that people had made about their favorite orange flowered bulbs and turned it into an htm document and added it. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Favorite_Orange_Flowered_Bulbs.htm Hopefully that will wrap, but if not you can also access it from http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TOW The favorite orange flowered bulb mentioned most often was Clivia miniata. A number of people liked Homerias. Crocosmia was another popular selection. We've got a nice list of Crocosmia, Kniphofia, Lilium, and Narcissus species and cultivars. I added a picture of Romulea eximia to the South African Romulea page. This is another one of the really beautiful ones and it is long blooming too. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanRomuleas Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From msittner@mcn.org Sat Apr 3 12:37:18 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040402105234.019b27a0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Recent Images on the Wiki #5 Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:07:10 -0800 Dear All, I don't think Angelo Porcelli announced that he added a picture of Arisarum vulgare which is another one of his Apulia habitat pictures. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Arisarum And speaking of habitat pictures I added a couple of pictures of Trientalis latifolia which is another Redwood forest spring blooming geophyte to my Mendocino Sonoma Coast page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MendocinoSonomaCoast And long before we had the latest pictures from Germán I had added a couple of images of Bill Dijk's to the Herbertia page since we only had one species illustrated. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Herbertia Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From piabinha@yahoo.com Fri Apr 2 16:47:44 2004 Message-Id: <20040402214743.5742.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Sinningia page Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 13:47:43 -0800 (PST) dear friends, i'm home from a week in toronto, attending a local gesneriad (Gesneriaceae) show. i've added some remarks to the introductory paragraph in the Sinningia page (i hope you don't mind, john). i'll be adding some pictures later, from home. please let me know what you think of it. tsuh yang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Fri Apr 2 18:46:34 2004 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Unusual looking Japanese hybrid Hipp photo added to wiki Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:46:33 -0800 I added a photo of a Japanese (Komoriya) hybrid Hippeastrum called 'Yume Mitai' which means 'Looks Like a Dream' in Japanese. Does anyone have a guess as to which species they may have crossed to get this? --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From c-mueller@tamu.edu Fri Apr 2 19:00:01 2004 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: Unusual looking Japanese hybrid Hipp photo added to wiki Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 17:59:53 -0600 Lee...maybe Calyptrata times a Picotee-like hybrid? I am getting some red-edged plants among my seedlings, some of which came from Giraffe. Calyptrata might bring in spindly petals and greenish coloration. Cynthia Mueller >>> wpoulsen@pacbell.net 04/02/04 05:46PM >>> I added a photo of a Japanese (Komoriya) hybrid Hippeastrum called 'Yume Mitai' which means 'Looks Like a Dream' in Japanese. Does anyone have a guess as to which species they may have crossed to get this? --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Pat.Colville@jameshardie.com Fri Apr 2 19:03:37 2004 Message-Id: From: "Pat Colville" Subject: Unusual looking Japanese hybrid Hipp photo added to wiki Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:00:37 -0800 Lee- Your photo looks a lot like H. papillio with most of the maroon missing. The early blooming time is also characteristic. Mine are blooming right now but the rest of the hippeastrum's buds have barely started to emerge. These Japanese hybrids are very interesting. Do you think there is any chance of doing a group order from Japan. I might be willing to coordinate it. Patty Colville From Lee: I added a photo of a Japanese (Komoriya) hybrid Hippeastrum called 'Yume Mitai' which means 'Looks Like a Dream' in Japanese. Does anyone have a guess as to which species they may have crossed to get this? --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jshields104@insightbb.com Fri Apr 2 19:39:45 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040402193807.0282aa28@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Unusual looking Japanese hybrid Hipp photo added to wiki Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 19:39:43 -0500 Lee, My guess is that both ladies are right -- I think it might be a cross between papilio and calyptratum. Maybe an F2? Jim Shields At 04:00 PM 4/2/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Lee- Your photo looks a lot like H. papillio with most of the maroon >missing. The early blooming time is also characteristic. Mine are >blooming right now but the rest of the hippeastrum's buds have barely >started to emerge. >These Japanese hybrids are very interesting. Do you think there is any >chance of doing a group order from Japan. I might be willing to >coordinate it. >Patty Colville > > >From Lee: >I added a photo of a Japanese (Komoriya) hybrid Hippeastrum called >'Yume Mitai' which means 'Looks Like a Dream' in Japanese. > > >Does anyone have a guess as to which species they may have crossed to >get this? > >--Lee Poulsen >Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From eagle85@flash.net Fri Apr 2 21:10:34 2004 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Hippeastrum intiflorum Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 18:05:06 -0800 I've just added "this year's" picture of Hippeastrum to the wiki page. This year, the flowers are larger and deeper in color. Doug Westfall http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Hippeastrum%20intiflorum.jpg From TGlavich@aol.com Sat Apr 3 00:11:21 2004 Message-Id: <1f1.1cf35663.2d9fa176@aol.com> From: TGlavich@aol.com Subject: Unusual looking Japanese hybrid Hipp photo added to wiki Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:11:18 EST Lee, It's a great cultivar. Patty, I'd be willing to participate in a group order. Tom From Antennaria@aol.com Sat Apr 3 00:19:41 2004 Message-Id: <136.2c6e1fcd.2d9fa367@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 14, Issue 42 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:19:35 EST In a message dated 3/30/04 10:29:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, Jim McKenney wrote: It's not my life goal to "correct" clueless people who say ny-fof'-ee-ah or el-scholtz'-ee-ah or ah-jer-ray'-tum. I've always been the rare individual, such as in a class while in grade school, who'd say to a teacher "no, I don't know what you mean", at risk of everyone ridiculing me for admitting to not knowing the answer to the question. Two of the three examples you cite coincide closely with the way I'd say the genus name. The insinuation is, the phonetic examples you site illustrates "clueless blunders". If you can bear it, please supply the elucidating fact, how should these three genera be sounded? Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From angelopalm69@inwind.it Sat Apr 3 13:48:29 2004 Message-Id: <001401c419ab$c69d0de0$a5e8623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Japanese Hippeastrum hybrid Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 20:45:02 +0200 It's my understanding from an online article on the IBS that H.papilio dosen't accept pollen from the Dutch hybrids, so any white or yellow hybrid shouldn't be able to set seeds on papilio giving that yellow-green colour. Maybe evansiae or parodii have been involved rather than cybister, judging from the broad tepals. Angelo Porcelli Italy From totototo@pacificcoast.net Wed Mar 31 17:31:31 2004 Message-Id: <200403312231.i2VMVRrx025695@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Leucojum fontianum/tingitanum (again!) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:40:04 -800 Baker published the name /Leucojum tingitanum/ in 1878. Maire published the name /Leucojum fontianum/ in 1934. Brian Mathew in the key in his 1987 "The Smaller Bulbs" distinguishes L. fontianum from L. tingitanum on the basis of the width of the leaf, describing the leaf of L. tingitanum as "linear" and that of L. fontianum as 6-8 mm wide. Mathew further remarks "F. C. Stern, in 'Snowdrops and Snowflakes', considered it [L. fontianum] to be a robust form of L. tingitanum." Another key on the web, googlable via "leucojum fontianum" (two hits), says "L. tingitanum...broad leaves (4 to 10 mm)". It looks like my plant is what everyone else grows as L. tingitanum even though it agrees with Mathew's description of L. fontianum. I'm confused. (this is nothing new) Do we have two species or one here? Is anyone growing L. tingitanum with a linear leaf rather than a wider keeled one? Does any pbs list subscriber have access to a *good* botanical library in which they can look up the original descriptions by Baker and Maire for me? BTW, if you use Google to recover the key I refer to, it's in French. If you use Google's translation feature, be aware that it slightly garbles the output, translating proper names (Maire -> "Mayor"), abbreviations (an abbreviated journal name "Jour. somethingorother" comes out as "Day. Club-footed."), and turning fragments of text in other languages into nearly meaningless English. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@pacificcoast.net Thu Apr 1 07:22:15 2004 Message-Id: <200404011222.i31CM3nU018328@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Leucojum fontianum/tingitanum (again!) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 04:30:45 -800 On 1 Apr 04 at 4:16, Pascal Vigneron wrote: > > Brian Mathew in the key in his 1987 "The Smaller Bulbs" distinguishes > > L. fontianum from L. tingitanum > > Five years later, in the Kew Magazine (Curtis Botanical Magazine) > vol. 9 Part 4 page 156-160, Brian Mathew write "Having compared > Baker's specimen of L. tingitanum with fresh material [...] in my > opinion, L. tingitanum Baker should be accepted as the correct name > for this interesting spring-flowering species, with L. fontianum > reduced to synonymy." Aha! At last! I wonder if he looked at Maire's specimen of L. "fontianum". At any rate, it's back outside to change the name on the label for the fourth time in two weeks. Thank you very much for supplying this information. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From angelopalm69@inwind.it Sun Apr 4 13:36:53 2004 Message-Id: <001101c41a6a$f07261a0$919c623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Recent Images on the Wiki #5 Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 19:33:26 +0200 Indeed I forgot to announce other photos, such as Anemone hortensis and Ornithogalum montanum, which can be found in their sections. Very few spare time recently, sorry. Angelo From msittner@mcn.org Sun Apr 4 13:55:58 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040401163230.00d0f100@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Recent Images on the Wiki #6 Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 10:54:25 -0700 Dear All, It seems especially timely as the Leucocorynes I have courtesy of my friend Bill Dijk are starting now to bloom (something I look forward to every year) to say that I added two pictures of Bill's hybrids to the Leucocoryne page. For those people who don't know this genus I invite you to review Sheila Burrow's wonderful pictures, some of the first added to our wiki. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Leucocoryne I have been busy adding Lachenalia pictures to the Lachenalia page and have lots more still to add (if I ever have time.) First there are a lot of new Lachenalia aloides pictures: Lachenalia aloides aloides (Bill Dijk), Lachenalia aloides aurea (my favorite orange one, my pictures and one by Jana Ulmer), Lachenalia aloides var. we saw at Gordon Summerfield's and I lusted after. Lachenalia attentuata (donated by Mark Mazer to the BX) had nicely marked leaves. I also added a number of pictures of Lachenalia juncifolia (leaves, flowers), another really attractive one with cool leaves and dainty flowers. Lachenalia splendida is a nicely colored one with exserted stamens. The last two were pictures we took at Alan Horstmann's collection in South Africa. One was this tiny little Lachenalia mutabilis so different from the ones I am growing from Bill Dijk seed that are doing just fine in the ground (and in containers). Finally there is a picture of L. violacea that he was growing. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Lachenalia Maybe that is enough to look up today. Mary Sue From piabinha@yahoo.com Sun Apr 4 14:12:51 2004 Message-Id: <20040404181249.18742.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Recent Images on the Wiki #6 Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 11:12:49 -0700 (PDT) hi, i've added a pic to the Alstroemeria page of A. plantaginea in situ; also several new photos to the Sinningia page. tsuh yang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From cindi28@juno.com Sun Apr 4 18:46:39 2004 Message-Id: <20040404.154522.3052.0.cindi28@juno.com> From: Cindi Coffen Subject: transplanting Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 15:43:53 -0700 hi all, i have some lovely hyacinthus orientalis in my garden that have bloomed beautifully for some years. now i would like to relocate them as the flowers die back. what i would like to know is whether it is safe to relocate them before the leaves have died back? i find that it is easier to see where they are that way . any thoughts on these and on the transplanting of narcissus and iris (tall bearded) early would be really appreciated. i am in the process of overhauling my front garden and would like to showcase the bulbs and rhizomes :). thank you, cindi - eastside seattle, zone 8, clay soil ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From totototo@pacificcoast.net Thu Apr 1 22:14:48 2004 Message-Id: <200404020311.i323BlO3001708@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Tecophilaea rediscovered Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:20:31 -800 "Jane McGary" wrote: > The March 2004 issue of "The Alpine Garden" (bulletin of the AGS) > contains the following news item (I have edited Robert Rolfe's > text a little): > "Tecophilaea cyanocrocus has been relocated in Chile, over 50 years > since it was pronounced extinct there. ...while conducting a > routine botanical mapping survey in the spring of 2001, they > encountered a large but very localised population of the Chilean > Blue Crocus at just over 2000 metres, within 40 kilometres of > Santiago, inhabiting an area no more than 20 x 50 m. > Several illustrations accompany the article, one of them showing > the tecophilaea in spectacular abundance on a level, stony site... > The density of this stand is estimated at 30-50 corms per square > metre, in clumps of 5-20... I hope everyone will forgive me for being such a cynic, but I wouldn't be surprised to read that this population has already been collected out of existence by unscrupulous nurserymen. It is to be hoped that the government of Chile mounts effective guard over this precious treasure. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From meenglis@cts.com Mon Apr 5 00:59:02 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040404215052.00b40b60@mailbox2.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: "The Bulb Garden" Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 21:56:37 -0700 I have mailed all but a couple of copies of the Winter issue of "The Bulb Garden." I am sorry it is so late. Please enjoy the excellent articles by Mark Smyth and Roy Sachs. If you haven't yet renewed your membership this year, please consider doing so. You will receive all back issues for the year when you join. We are always looking for articles. If you have something in mind, please submit it to Cathy Craig who will be editing the Spring issue. Marguerite English, Editor: 'The Bulb Garden' Pacific Bulb Society For information and membership forms, view http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/ From marque219@yahoo.com Mon Apr 5 08:30:51 2004 Message-Id: <20040405123048.34723.qmail@web60005.mail.yahoo.com> From: Mark Wilcox Subject: Pictures Added to the Wiki: Anemone Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 05:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Dear All, I've added 2 pictures of Anemone blanda 'Atrocaerulea,' currently in bloom in my garden, to the wiki. Please see the following page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Anemone Mark Wilcox Zone 7 Washington, DC From Bonsaigai37@aol.com Mon Apr 5 08:54:44 2004 Message-Id: <83.8a7035a.2da2b10b@aol.com> From: Bonsaigai37@aol.com Subject: Fertilizer Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 08:54:35 EDT Hello Group, I am going to be playing around with fertilizer. In the past I have made various concoctions for my bonsai and other plants, this year it's going to be the bulbs. Does anyone have suggestions for their own mixes or fertilizers? There are a few outstanding mixes in past issues of Herbertia for liquid feed. I am trying store bought granular components and then supplying small amounts every week or so (hopeful not burning). The ingredients I plan on using are nitrate of soda, muriate of potash, and super phosphate to supply 16-18-60. This will be applied mainly to the Amaryllids (read- common/expendable Dutch hybrid Hipps). Comments anyone? Thanks Michael From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Mon Apr 5 10:58:06 2004 Message-Id: <40717A3A.8C077BE8@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: transplanting Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 08:24:43 -0700 Dear Cindi: Lift the Hyacinths, let the foliage die back while keeping the bulbs in a shaded airy place. When foliage is easy to remove, remove it, i.e. when died back completely, clean earth off the bulbs, discard any that are damaged, store in old panty hose in cool airy place then plant again this fall. If you move the bearded iris now you risk loosing flowers this year. But discard any old rhizomes, planting only young, light in color portions, add a little lime if soil is acid, do not bury but after watering them in, you should see the back of the rhizomes just, I mean just, breaking the soil. Cheers, John E. Bryan Cindi Coffen wrote: > > hi all, > > i have some lovely hyacinthus orientalis in my garden that have bloomed > beautifully for some years. now i would like to relocate them as the > flowers die back. what i would like to know is whether it is safe to > relocate them before the leaves have died back? i find that it is easier > to see where they are that way . > > any thoughts on these and on the transplanting of narcissus and iris > (tall bearded) early would be really appreciated. i am in the process of > overhauling my front garden and would like to showcase the bulbs and > rhizomes :). > > thank you, > cindi - eastside seattle, zone 8, clay soil > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Mon Apr 5 11:44:20 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040405080942.00b5eaa0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Bellevalia--TOW Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 08:38:08 -0700 Note from Mary Sue--Alberto sent me the introduction for this topic of the week before his surgery. Since he is not online he will not be able to field questions about this genus. I hope all of you who grow any of the species will tell us which ones you grow and how they do in your climates. Since Alberto mentions in his introduction that these can be hard to find a source for seeds and bulbs would be a nice addition to what he has written. There are only a couple of pictures on our wiki so if any of you have photographs of some of these species that Alberto mentions please add them to the wiki so we can all see what they look like. Thanks. Mary Sue TOW Coordinator Dear all: I offered to write a short introduction to Bellevalia which is among my favorite bulbs. This preference may be difficult to explain but if I had to recommend them I would insist on the fact that they are among the most dependable of all. Year after year they will give an early spring show with the minimum of care. Much like the easier Muscaris. There are about 50 species in the genus but most are brown flowered. Only a small handful of species is really attractive and they show the best of the blue shades available in the bulb world, very striking. Unfortunately it is also very difficult to obtain these species in the trade and one often receives just anything instead, mostly Bellevalia romana but also Muscaris. These are bulbs for cool to cold winter climates, say USDA zone 9 or lower and can be very hardy and grown wild in mostly alpine pastures in Europe and the Middle East. In warmer climates they must be given a cool position and morning sun but may not be very permanent under these conditions. The root system is annually produced and it is best not to dry the bulbs off too much when dormant in summer. They need a neutral to alkaline well drained soil. Bulbs must be planted in autumn and will be dormant for the summer. Propagation is from offsets (not freely produced) and from seed. The seeds are distinctive and have a waxy covering that makes them look rather bluish and are comparatively very large and round. Recommended species are: B. forniculata: sterile flowers bright blue B. glauca: sterile flowers a most striking shade of enamel blue B. pycnantha: all flowers blackish blue with yellowish margins to the lobes B. dubia: in some forms the sterile flowers an intense mid blue B. paradoxa : deep navy blue flowers B. romana, all flowers cream and black anthers looking like a Roman hyacinth somehow B. atroviolacea, flowers a deep indigo B. hyacinthoides, a species long known as Strangweia spicata, flowers a lovely sky blue. This needs warmer summer conditions to remain permanent. Since there is a good deal of confusion on Muscari and allied genera, below are mentioned the main features that can tell these genera apart Hyacinthus, loose raceme of funnel or tube shaped flowers with spreading recurved lobes approximately as long as the tube. Flowers very fragrant. Stamens inserted in the lower part of the tube. Style short with a capitate stigma. Bellevalia, long raceme. Flowers campanulate with a short to long perianth tube and six lobes with the stamens attached just inside the mouth of the perianth. Two types of flowers, infertile ones in certain species very colorful on the upper part of the inflorescence, the fertile ones usually pale or dark dull olive brown. Seeds covered with a waxy bloom. Muscari, flowers strongly constricted at the mouth, obovate, ovoid or tubular. The tube is what we usually take for the "flower" the actual perianth lobes being very minute teeth like portions at the mouth Hyacinthella, the bulbs look "powdered" with crystals. Two leaves with prominent fibre strands, loose racemes, tubular or campanulate flowers. Dark blue anthers held just within the mouth of the tube. The perianth remains attached to the developing ovary during the fruiting stage (this doesn't occur in Bellevalia and Muscari) From Theladygardens@aol.com Mon Apr 5 12:23:08 2004 Message-Id: <108.2e0fc5cd.2da2e1c1@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: transplanting Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:22:25 EDT Cindy, On the Iris, it is always best to leave them in place for 6-8 weeks after they have finished blooming. this gives the plant time to take up nutrients necessary to produce beautiful blooms for you next year. Then when you move them you are moving a healthier more robust rhizome. If for some reason you absolutly must move them early you risk losing a bloom season next year but not always. They will eventually bloom for you again. Don't forget the bearded iris need a minimum of 6 hours a day of sun. Carolyn in Los Gatos, CA with over 1000 bearded iris in my garden and a few hundred others. By the way, it is open free to the public weekend afternoons this month and first week of May if any of you are in the area and would like to stop by. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Apr 5 13:08:31 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040405100221.00bbf310@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Bellevalia--TOW Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 10:08:21 -0700 In response to Mary Sue's request, I have posted photos on the wiki of several species of Bellevalia. See the new entries at http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Bellevalia B. dubia and B. forniculata were already there. I added another photo of B. forniculata which I think gets a little closer to its remarkable color than the one that was previously posted (apologies to Arnold!). I also added B. longistyla, not one of the more "beautiful" ones but interesting, and B. pycnantha in a form grown from wild-collected seed. The Dutch commercial form of B. pycnantha is different in color and, I think, not so attractive. However, I don't think it is a Muscari, since it has the typical broader leaves of Bellevalia. I wonder if the two genera hybridize? Alberto wrote that these plants need neutral to alkaline soil, but I have always grown them in mildly acid soil and they do fine. Seed is available from the Archibalds: http://www.jjaseeds.com And it is often available in the exchanges of the AGS, NARGS, and SRGC. Bellevalia forniculata is listed in the catalog of Leonid Bondarenko: http://www.litbulbgarden.com Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From Jamievande@freenet.de Mon Apr 5 13:30:22 2004 Message-Id: <003501c41b34$78d71f30$6502a8c0@Jamie2> From: "Jamie" Subject: Frits and Bits on der Wiki Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:36:04 +0200 Mornin, I've added a few shots from the garden, Narcissus bulbocodium (commercial strain) http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/N.bulbocodium1kl.jv.jpg Anemone nemerosa as found in the woods http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Anemone Fritillaria uva-vulpis, again a commercial strain http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Fritillaria/Fritillaria_uva-vulpis_jv.jpg Also, on the Fritillaria page, I've added Aurora and Lutea Maxima: Others will follow ,as they bloom. Jamie V. Cologne PS: Mary Sue, thanks for sorting things out....again! From dells@voicenet.com Mon Apr 5 14:32:13 2004 Message-Id: <200404051832.i35IW3m16182@email1.voicenet.com> From: Subject: Bellevalia--TOW Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 14:32:03 -0400 (EDT) Wow, Jane!! What a great site. Have you bought from him befora? Dell > > Bellevalia forniculata is listed in the catalog of Leonid Bondarenko: > http://www.litbulbgarden.com > > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon, USA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Apr 5 16:01:05 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Muscari paradoxum Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:08:15 -0600 Dear All; Wonder if anyone has experience with M. paradoxum. A couple years ago, I got a bulb or two (ordered along with Jacob Adler of AR). This has proven to be one of the biggest huskiest Muscari to grow here. Flower heads are just forming, but 2 to 3 x larger than any others and most bulbs (it's multiplied) have 2 heads arising from each. Since I am not a big Muscari fan, this does impress me. Jacob, how are yours doing? Anyone else grow this? Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From dkramb@badbear.com Mon Apr 5 21:29:10 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040405182852.00bc2ee0@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Muscari paradoxum Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 18:30:16 -0400 At 01:08 PM 4/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Dear All; > Wonder if anyone has experience with M. paradoxum. A couple years > ago, I got a bulb or two (ordered along with Jacob Adler of AR). This has > proven to be one of the biggest huskiest Muscari to grow here. Flower > heads are just forming, but 2 to 3 x larger than any others and most > bulbs (it's multiplied) have 2 heads arising from each. > Since I am not a big Muscari fan, this does impress me. > > Jacob, how are yours doing? Anyone else grow this? > > Jim W. >-- I have grown it for 3 years now, and it does equally well here in Cincinnati. I grow an assortment of Muscari and I think 'Valerie Finnis' is probably my favorite for the light blue colored flowers. Dennis in Cincinnati From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Apr 6 19:20:23 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040405220202.00bb0b00@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Bellevalia--TOW Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:02:47 -0700 Dell wrote, >Wow, Jane!! What a great site. Have you bought from him [Leonid >Bondarenko] befora? No, I just found out about the site. I think the prices are rather high, but I'll keep an eye on his list. Jane McGary From msittner@mcn.org Tue Apr 6 10:52:03 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040401160914.00d0da20@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Recent Images on the Wiki#7 Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 07:50:02 -0700 Dear All, I replaced a picture on the Babiana page that was a scan of a print from the past with one that was much improved from the digital camera this year. Last year I asked if anyone could help me figure out a plant that I purchased originally from Jim Duggan (a very long time ago.) He called it Babiana nana angustifolia. There was a plant by that name in Jeppe's book but that is the only place I have found the name. There is a Babiana nana and a Babiana angustifolia, but they are different from my plant. I hoped Alan Horstmann from South Africa who grows and knows a lot about Babiana could help me sort it out and he may still, but I know he is really busy. Julian Slade often helps me identify South African plants so perhaps he'll help me on this one too. This plant is about 10 cm tall, with pale lilac flowers. The bottom three tepals shade to white with maroon v like markings. The flowers are strongly scented like cinnamon. The flowers have a pale lilac stigma on top of purple curved stamens. My plants were especially happy this year with less rain than usual during their flowering time. And they smelled so nice when I passed them. Unlike a lot of Babianas I grow that seem much happier in a deep pot or in the ground, these do well in containers. I wish I knew if they were a true species or just a hybrid. I also added a picture Bob took at Alan's of a Babiana that he was growing that could be a new species. It is such a handsome flower. My Babianas were wonderful this year (with less rain to spoil the flowers) and we took a lot of pictures, but many of them do not look the same color on my screen as in the garden and I'm yet to figure out what to do about that so have waited on putting them on the wiki. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Babiana I also added pictures of the white Ornithogalum (dubium?) we purchased for a bargain price at Orchard Supply last year along with some yellow and orange ones. They were all wonderful and I thought at that time that for the amount of pleasure they gave me and the low cost, it wouldn't matter if they returned. The bulbs all looked healthy afterwards, but I was still disappointed that they remained under ground with the new season. I have just added a couple of pictures of my orange Ornithogalum dubium to that page as well. This pot of four usually only has one or two start to grow and bloom. This year possibly two came up and one seems to have split and has nine spikes. That does kind of make up for the others sitting the season out. I was hoping the yellow one would behave like Paul Tyerman's yellow and bloom every year, but it was not to be. I was really happy with the way the picture of my orange one in bud turned out. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Ornithogalum Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From leo1010@attglobal.net Tue Apr 6 21:45:18 2004 Message-Id: <407332F5.4020001@attglobal.net> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Bellevalia--TOW Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:45:09 -0400 When to sow Bellevalia seed? Thank you, Leo -- Leo A. Martin Phoenix, Arizona, USA Like cactus and succulents? Central Arizona Cactus and Succulent Society http://www.centralarizonacactus.org From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Apr 7 10:21:07 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Wild true hyacinths Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:15:37 -0500 Dear all; As the hyacinths are looking past their peak, I got to wondering- dangerous, I know. Does anyone grow the species instead of these gaudy cultivars? I have a few brightly colored cvs and the 'multi-scaped' forms, but their colors really are pretty shocking compared to the pastels of spring. I assume the few wild species are more subdued, possibly more difficult to grow(?) and less available. Appreciate comments, suggests and sources. Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From mail@odysseybulbs.com Wed Apr 7 10:53:27 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20040407105751.02361ec0@pop.earthlink.net> From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Wild true hyacinths Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:03:57 -0400 Yes, Jim, I grow straight Hyacinthus orientalis (it's in bloom now). You will find a photo on my website. The species offers the durability and fragrance of the hybrids but none of the stiffness or gaudiness. It also increases well by offsets. Russell At 09:15 AM 4/7/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Dear all; > As the hyacinths are looking past their peak, I got to wondering- > dangerous, I know. > Does anyone grow the species instead of these gaudy cultivars? Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs 8984 Meadow Lane, Berrien Springs, Michigan 49103 269-471-4642 www.odysseybulbs.com From msittner@mcn.org Wed Apr 7 11:09:47 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040407072317.01a4a960@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Bellevalia--TOW Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:06:56 -0700 Dear All, I really love blue flowers so am always looking for plants that have them. I only grow three Bellevalias. The first one I ever got was B. romana. I got seed from my friend Will Ashburner who called it "a good doer". He later forgot he told me that and questioned why I had wanted it. When I reminded him, he agreed that it was true. The flowers are white, becoming brown as they age and it is really easy to grow, but not very spectacular. We took a picture of it last year, but didn't get a very good one and I didn't realize I needed to get a better one this year for the wiki and now it is mostly past it. I sowed two, actually 3 batches of seed in the fall and it germinated in 1 to 2 months. Seed sowed September, October 1999 bloomed in spring of 2003. I had three batches of seed because one was seed exchange seed that was supposed to be something else. I started seed Jack Elliott gave me of B. dubia the fall of 2000 and it came up that winter and bloomed last spring for the first time too. It is quite unique with the pretty blue buds and brown flowers. That same year I got seed of what was supposed to be B. forniculata. I say supposed to be because it was seed from the Scottish Rock Garden. I was only a member briefly of that group. It delivers seed very quickly and efficiently, but a large percentage of what I got was misnamed when it finally bloomed so it would need to be verified. My sample was small so it is not a fair indictment, but just made me careful to check out each plant. This one hasn't bloomed yet so I'm not sure what it is. That seed I sowed in fall didn't come up until spring. It has not done as well as the others. I really wanted it after Jack Elliott wrote the following to the old IBS forum about Bellevalia: "They are very little grown here, probably because many of them have rather unattractive straw-coloured to brownish flowers in a looser spike than muscaris, but there are exceptions. B. dubia is about the only one I have now, the lower flowers of the very loose spike being the typical colour but the upper flowers brilliant blue, very worth-while. B. forniculata is amazing. We saw it in Turkey in very wet meadows, which looked vivid sky blue from a mile away from millions of the bellevalias. The meadows would have dried out later and I should say they all have a hot dry summer and a very cold winter under snow. The other popular ones are B. pycnantha and B. forniculata, closely allied or the same, with much denser spikes of extremely dark navy blue flowers. They really only differ from muscaris in having the 'mouths' of the bells open rather than incurved." Having just read that again, I suspect that the second mention of B. forniculata probably should have been a different species, probably B. pycnantha. Perhaps my possible B. forniculata needs colder winters than I can provide. The other two are just fine in my Mediterranean climate. I try to remember to give them occasional water in summer, but haven't always been good about that either. B. dubia bloomed this year when we were having an unusual heat spring heat spell and didn't last nearly as long as last year. It has bloomed in February and March so can be appreciated when it has less competition. Any one else grow this genus and willing to share your experiences? Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Wed Apr 7 11:20:14 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040407081548.01a4b450@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wild true hyacinths Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:19:09 -0700 Dear Jim, I grow the species from Wayne Roderick seed. I'll be happy to share some with you when mine are dormant if you like. More subdued they are. In fact you wouldn't even think they were the same thing. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 7 11:30:09 2004 Message-Id: <407424BA.E9CB41B9@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Bellevalia--TOW Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:56:42 -0700 Dear Leo: Sow as soon as ripe, barely cover the seed. Cheers, John E. Bryan "Leo A. Martin" wrote: > > When to sow Bellevalia seed? > > Thank you, > > Leo > -- > Leo A. Martin > Phoenix, Arizona, USA > > Like cactus and succulents? > Central Arizona Cactus and Succulent Society > http://www.centralarizonacactus.org > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Wed Apr 7 12:19:19 2004 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476B97687@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Bellevalia--TOW Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:19:14 -0500 Dear All: We have a single bulb of Bellevalia makuensis (tentative identification) from the Republic of Georgia in our evaluation raised beds with a number of other geophytes. The foliage is broad lanceolate and I think it is attractive. I took (I hope) a good image of the foliage this morning. Later today I will attempt to load it onto the wiki along with an image taken last year showing the diagnostic characteristics of the flower/fruit. The flower spike emerges in an exuberant sort of way and is relatively tall, about 12" and very open. The flowers at the tip are dark purple and those lower down on the flower stalk are purple with a white rim around the mouth of the flower. This bulb has come through 2 consecutive rough winters in a raised bed with no mulch topdressing in Chicago, USDA climatic zone 5. Rabbits and chipmunks so far have preferred the Fritillaria caucasica, Tulipa and Lilium neighbors (hence the chicken wire cage in part of the image). Aesthetically this is not a 'front of the border' plant, but the height and unusual color would make an interesting backdrop for other spring flowers. From an architectural standpoint the contrast in foliage and flower with members of the genus Muscari is interesting. So far, it has not shown an invasive tendencies. Like all new taxa brought into CBG, it is undergoing a period of observation (for invasive characteristics) prior to use in the public displays. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org From Antennaria@aol.com Wed Apr 7 23:35:55 2004 Message-Id: From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Iris photos posted on the PBS wiki Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:35:47 EDT I uploaded a few Iris photos on the PBS wiki. Each of the following Iris were photographed this morning at 7:00 AM, the temperature was 28 degrees Fahrenheit at the time (frozen), but unlike crocus, at least the Iris reticulata cultivars and allied species have the decency to stay open in low light or when frozen, a blessing for the harried working man or woman. Iris 'Katherine Hodgkin' - an ethereal beauty, I posted two close-up shots showing the intricately marked blooms. Iris histrio - a beautiful little species akin to reticulata, with baby blue flowers and intricate markings. Iris 'Lady Beatrice Stanley' - another reticulata type, with wedgewood blue flowers, broad falls and detailed markings. All can be viewed at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Iris Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From mysticgardn@yahoo.com Thu Apr 8 02:23:26 2004 Message-Id: <20040408062325.68113.qmail@web40504.mail.yahoo.com> From: Ann Marie Subject: Unusual looking Japanese hybrid Hipp photo added to wiki Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:23:25 -0700 (PDT) I second the group order, Ann Marie TGlavich@aol.com wrote:Lee, It's a great cultivar. Patty, I'd be willing to participate in a group order. Tom _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Ann Marie So. California, San Gabriel Valley, Zone 21 (Sunset Western Garden book) , influenced by both marine and interior air(Santa Ana winds). This makes it perfect for Citrus trees and most So African plants. I collect and sometimes sell belladonnas, nerines, oxalis, moraea, amaryllis, palms, epiphyllums, succulents and other south african bulbs. email me at mysticgardn@yahoo.com for list of bulbs and plants for sale. For home and garden sculptures go to http://www.rjunkdrawer.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today From c-mueller@tamu.edu Thu Apr 8 07:50:36 2004 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: Unusual looking Japanese hybrid Hipp photo added to wiki Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 06:50:16 -0500 Please add my name to Lee Poulsen's possible Japanese hippeastrum ordering list! - Cynthia W. Mueller >>> mysticgardn@yahoo.com 4/8/04 1:23:25 AM >>> I second the group order, Ann Marie TGlavich@aol.com wrote:Lee, It's a great cultivar. Patty, I'd be willing to participate in a group order. Tom _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Ann Marie So. California, San Gabriel Valley, Zone 21 (Sunset Western Garden book) , influenced by both marine and interior air(Santa Ana winds). This makes it perfect for Citrus trees and most So African plants. I collect and sometimes sell belladonnas, nerines, oxalis, moraea, amaryllis, palms, epiphyllums, succulents and other south african bulbs. email me at mysticgardn@yahoo.com for list of bulbs and plants for sale. For home and garden sculptures go to http://www.rjunkdrawer.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From dells@voicenet.com Thu Apr 8 07:59:08 2004 Message-Id: <200404081159.i38Bx2Q01179@email1.voicenet.com> From: Subject: Unusual looking Japanese hybrid Hipp photo added to wiki Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 07:59:02 -0400 (EDT) Me too! On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 06:50:16 -0500, "Cynthia Mueller" wrote : > Please add my name to Lee Poulsen's possible Japanese hippeastrum > ordering list! - Cynthia W. Mueller > > >>> mysticgardn@yahoo.com 4/8/04 1:23:25 AM >>> > I second the group order, Ann Marie > > TGlavich@aol.com wrote:Lee, > > It's a great cultivar. > > Patty, > > I'd be willing to participate in a group order. > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > Ann Marie > > So. California, San Gabriel Valley, Zone 21 (Sunset Western Garden > book) , influenced by both marine and interior air(Santa Ana winds). > This makes it perfect for Citrus trees and most So African plants. I > collect and sometimes sell belladonnas, nerines, oxalis, moraea, > amaryllis, palms, epiphyllums, succulents and other south african bulbs. > email me at mysticgardn@yahoo.com for list of bulbs and plants for > sale. For home and garden sculptures go to http://www.rjunkdrawer.com > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > From msittner@mcn.org Thu Apr 8 10:49:37 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040407150413.019024d0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Recent Images on the Wiki #8 and a report Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 07:48:30 -0700 Dear All, I don't believe I ever announced when I created the Cyanella page. I added pictures to it of Cyanellas we photographed while in South Africa. Several images were of that yellow Cyanella alba that I'd love to grow, but never seems available anywhere, not even seed. These were photos of plants in pots grown by IBSA members. Rachel has told me they never find seed of it in the wild in the Biedouw Valley, a very dry area where it comes from. Another picture was of an attractive Cyanella we saw at the Karoo gardens. Julian Slade helped me identify it. Finally I added a picture of Cyanella lutea we saw in the Little Karoo where it would get very little rain. In my report to the group I wrote about our trip I said this: "Seeing the Cyanella lutea it struck me that it was no wonder if wasn't really very happy in an area where we often get 60 inches of rain during our winter rainy season. The fact that I had one in a raised bed subjected to the elements that bloomed for three years before it disappeared was more surprising than the fact it disappeared." When I redid the bed it was last seen in I saved some of the bulbs I wasn't sure of and this year guess what has come up and is blooming in one of the mystery bulbs containers? Perhaps it has been happier in this dryer year? http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Cyanella Most of my Oxalis obtusa that was blooming well went dormant when we had our heat spell. The only ones that didn't were located in cool spots were they got less direct sunshine. But before it went dormant I photographed another Oxalis obtusa Michael Vassar accession, 7087. It is a really nice one and I added it to the wiki even though we have quite a lot of other Oxalis obtusa pictures. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalis How you grow many of the Oxalis really determines how they look. I know that is no doubt true for all we grow, but the form of the obtusas can be so different. When I redid my raised beds I tried a couple of Oxalis in the beds since I was then planting in containers and could contain them and wanted to experimant. The Oxalis luteola did great. This same accession of Oxalis obtusa (7087) planted in the raised beds was slow to emerge and then the plants remained mat like, a much better form. They didn't bloom very long however and the heat spell we had prevents me from being sure whether it was the weather or the way they were planted. Michael Vassar preached little organic matter and no fertilizer to keep the leaves low and contained. But my informal experience has been that I get longer blooming on my Oxalis plants when I fertilize them a little. Mary Sue From pbrooks3@sc.rr.com Thu Apr 8 16:00:38 2004 Message-Id: <004801c41da4$2a24e6c0$6401a8c0@home> From: "Patricia Brooks" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 15, Issue 9 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:00:38 -0400 I would be willing to participate in a group order. If they have something I wish to order. If I know Lee there will be plenty of goodies. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 12:12 PM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 15, Issue 9 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. RE: Bellevalia--TOW (Boyce Tankersley) > 2. Re: Iris photos posted on the PBS wiki (Antennaria@aol.com) > 3. Re: Unusual looking Japanese hybrid Hipp photo added to wiki > (Ann Marie) > 4. Re: Unusual looking Japanese hybrid Hipp photo added to wiki > (Cynthia Mueller) > 5. Re: Unusual looking Japanese hybrid Hipp photo added to wiki > (dells@voicenet.com) > 6. Recent Images on the Wiki #8 and a report (Mary Sue Ittner) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:19:14 -0500 > From: "Boyce Tankersley" > Subject: RE: [pbs] Bellevalia--TOW > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Message-ID: > <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476B97687@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dear All: > > We have a single bulb of Bellevalia makuensis (tentative identification) from the Republic of Georgia in our evaluation raised beds with a number of other geophytes. The foliage is broad lanceolate and I think it is attractive. I took (I hope) a good image of the foliage this morning. Later today I will attempt to load it onto the wiki along with an image taken last year showing the diagnostic characteristics of the flower/fruit. The flower spike emerges in an exuberant sort of way and is relatively tall, about 12" and very open. The flowers at the tip are dark purple and those lower down on the flower stalk are purple with a white rim around the mouth of the flower. This bulb has come through 2 consecutive rough winters in a raised bed with no mulch topdressing in Chicago, USDA climatic zone 5. Rabbits and chipmunks so far have preferred the Fritillaria caucasica, Tulipa and Lilium neighbors (hence the chicken wire cage in part of the image). > > Aesthetically this is not a 'front of the border' plant, but the height and unusual color would make an interesting backdrop for other spring flowers. From an architectural standpoint the contrast in foliage and flower with members of the genus Muscari is interesting. > > So far, it has not shown an invasive tendencies. Like all new taxa brought into CBG, it is undergoing a period of observation (for invasive characteristics) prior to use in the public displays. > > Boyce Tankersley > btankers@chicagobotanic.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:35:47 EDT > From: Antennaria@aol.com > Subject: [pbs] Re: Iris photos posted on the PBS wiki > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > I uploaded a few Iris photos on the PBS wiki. Each of the following Iris > were photographed this morning at 7:00 AM, the temperature was 28 degrees > Fahrenheit at the time (frozen), but unlike crocus, at least the Iris reticulata > cultivars and allied species have the decency to stay open in low light or when > frozen, a blessing for the harried working man or woman. > > Iris 'Katherine Hodgkin' - an ethereal beauty, I posted two close-up shots > showing the intricately marked blooms. > > Iris histrio - a beautiful little species akin to reticulata, with baby blue > flowers and intricate markings. > > Iris 'Lady Beatrice Stanley' - another reticulata type, with wedgewood blue > flowers, broad falls and detailed markings. > > All can be viewed at: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Iris > > > Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States > antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 > ============================================== > >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << > alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western > american alpines, iris, plants of all types! > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:23:25 -0700 (PDT) > From: Ann Marie > Subject: Re: [pbs] Unusual looking Japanese hybrid Hipp photo added to > wiki > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <20040408062325.68113.qmail@web40504.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I second the group order, Ann Marie > > TGlavich@aol.com wrote:Lee, > > It's a great cultivar. > > Patty, > > I'd be willing to participate in a group order. > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > Ann Marie > > So. California, San Gabriel Valley, Zone 21 (Sunset Western Garden book) , influenced by both marine and interior air(Santa Ana winds). This makes it perfect for Citrus trees and most So African plants. I collect and sometimes sell belladonnas, nerines, oxalis, moraea, amaryllis, palms, epiphyllums, succulents and other south african bulbs. email me at mysticgardn@yahoo.com for list of bulbs and plants for sale. For home and garden sculptures go to http://www.rjunkdrawer.com > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 06:50:16 -0500 > From: "Cynthia Mueller" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Unusual looking Japanese hybrid Hipp photo added to > wiki > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Please add my name to Lee Poulsen's possible Japanese hippeastrum > ordering list! - Cynthia W. Mueller > > >>> mysticgardn@yahoo.com 4/8/04 1:23:25 AM >>> > I second the group order, Ann Marie > > TGlavich@aol.com wrote:Lee, > > It's a great cultivar. > > Patty, > > I'd be willing to participate in a group order. > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > Ann Marie > > So. California, San Gabriel Valley, Zone 21 (Sunset Western Garden > book) , influenced by both marine and interior air(Santa Ana winds). > This makes it perfect for Citrus trees and most So African plants. I > collect and sometimes sell belladonnas, nerines, oxalis, moraea, > amaryllis, palms, epiphyllums, succulents and other south african bulbs. > email me at mysticgardn@yahoo.com for list of bulbs and plants for > sale. For home and garden sculptures go to http://www.rjunkdrawer.com > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 07:59:02 -0400 (EDT) > From: > Subject: Re: [pbs] Unusual looking Japanese hybrid Hipp photo added to > wiki > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <200404081159.i38Bx2Q01179@email1.voicenet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > Me too! > > > On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 06:50:16 -0500, "Cynthia Mueller" mueller@tamu.edu> wrote : > > > Please add my name to Lee Poulsen's possible Japanese hippeastrum > > ordering list! - Cynthia W. Mueller > > > > >>> mysticgardn@yahoo.com 4/8/04 1:23:25 AM >>> > > I second the group order, Ann Marie > > > > TGlavich@aol.com wrote:Lee, > > > > It's a great cultivar. > > > > Patty, > > > > I'd be willing to participate in a group order. > > > > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > > > > Ann Marie > > > > So. California, San Gabriel Valley, Zone 21 (Sunset Western Garden > > book) , influenced by both marine and interior air(Santa Ana winds). > > This makes it perfect for Citrus trees and most So African plants. I > > collect and sometimes sell belladonnas, nerines, oxalis, moraea, > > amaryllis, palms, epiphyllums, succulents and other south african bulbs. > > email me at mysticgardn@yahoo.com for list of bulbs and plants for > > sale. For home and garden sculptures go to http://www.rjunkdrawer.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 07:48:30 -0700 > From: Mary Sue Ittner > Subject: [pbs] Recent Images on the Wiki #8 and a report > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <4.2.2.20040407150413.019024d0@mail.mcn.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Dear All, > > I don't believe I ever announced when I created the Cyanella page. I added > pictures to it of Cyanellas we photographed while in South Africa. Several > images were of that yellow Cyanella alba that I'd love to grow, but never > seems available anywhere, not even seed. These were photos of plants in > pots grown by IBSA members. Rachel has told me they never find seed of it > in the wild in the Biedouw Valley, a very dry area where it comes from. > > Another picture was of an attractive Cyanella we saw at the Karoo gardens. > Julian Slade helped me identify it. Finally I added a picture of Cyanella > lutea we saw in the Little Karoo where it would get very little rain. In my > report to the group I wrote about our trip I said this: > > "Seeing the Cyanella lutea it struck me that it was no wonder if wasn't > really very happy in an area where we often get 60 inches of rain during > our winter rainy season. The fact that I had one in a raised bed subjected > to the elements that bloomed for three years before it disappeared was more > surprising than the fact it disappeared." > > When I redid the bed it was last seen in I saved some of the bulbs I wasn't > sure of and this year guess what has come up and is blooming in one of the > mystery bulbs containers? Perhaps it has been happier in this dryer year? > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Cyanella > > Most of my Oxalis obtusa that was blooming well went dormant when we had > our heat spell. The only ones that didn't were located in cool spots were > they got less direct sunshine. But before it went dormant I photographed > another Oxalis obtusa Michael Vassar accession, 7087. It is a really nice > one and I added it to the wiki even though we have quite a lot of other > Oxalis obtusa pictures. > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalis > > How you grow many of the Oxalis really determines how they look. I know > that is no doubt true for all we grow, but the form of the obtusas can be > so different. When I redid my raised beds I tried a couple of Oxalis in the > beds since I was then planting in containers and could contain them and > wanted to experimant. The Oxalis luteola did great. This same accession of > Oxalis obtusa (7087) planted in the raised beds was slow to emerge and then > the plants remained mat like, a much better form. They didn't bloom very > long however and the heat spell we had prevents me from being sure whether > it was the weather or the way they were planted. Michael Vassar preached > little organic matter and no fertilizer to keep the leaves low and > contained. But my informal experience has been that I get longer blooming > on my Oxalis plants when I fertilize them a little. > > Mary Sue > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 15, Issue 9 > ********************************** From totototo@pacificcoast.net Mon Apr 5 18:21:00 2004 Message-Id: <200404052220.i35MKquw015812@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: transplanting Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:22:42 -800 On 4 Apr 04 at 15:43, Cindi Coffen wrote: > i have some lovely hyacinthus orientalis in my garden that have > bloomed beautifully for some years. now i would like to relocate > them as the flowers die back. what i would like to know is whether > it is safe to relocate them before the leaves have died back? i > find that it is easier to see where they are that way . > > any thoughts on these and on the transplanting of narcissus and iris > (tall bearded) early would be really appreciated. i am in the > process of overhauling my front garden and would like to showcase > the bulbs and rhizomes :). My understanding is that monocot roots, unlike those of dicots, will not branch if the root tips are damaged. As a result, it's tricky to transplant monocots when they're in active growth. Your intuition is quite correct. By the time your hyacinth foliage begins to yellow, the roots are probably senescent and nearly non-functional, so that would be a very good time to dig and re-plant the bulbs. It's probably better to lift them slightly early than to risk lifting them late. Narcissus should be handled in the same way. Bearded irises I can't say anything about because I don't grow them and am unfamiliar with their annual growth cycle. One important point, often overlooked: established bulbs start to push out new roots surprisingly early in the season. I've unearthed crocus corms in early August and observed that roots were already beginning to emerge from the base. One trivial point: when you lift your bulbs, be careful not to mix them up. Don't depend on your memory to remember that one stack of hyacinth bulbs is 'Chestnut Flower' and another is 'Oranje Boven'. The phone will ring or something, and when you come back to them, your memory will not work properly. Either lift and replant one cultivar at a time, or bag and label each cultivar as you lift it. The voice of experience, trust me! -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Fri Apr 9 07:27:55 2004 Message-Id: <1BBuA0-2ITG3E0@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: Hyacilnthlus orientalis wild form Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:27:00 +0200 Dear All, I grow some bulbs of Hyacinthus orientalis wild form, some in the open garden in a mesh pot to avoid them being eaten by mice and some in a pot in the greenhouse because I think they are not fully hardy. The ones in the garden are in flower now but they have reduced number of plants and flower size markedly since last year, the ones in the pot in the greenhouse have remained more or less the same but flowered less this year. They produced a lot of small offsetts and I wonder if that is a sign of decline of the whole plant. I got my bulbs for a very reasonable price from Hoog and Dix (now called Dix-Export) in the Netherlands, their website is www.dixexport.com All in all it is a very beautiful and dainty plant and the scent is very strong but more refined than the garden hybrids but it seems I have not yet found out how it wants to be grown to be permanent with me. greetings from very cold, almost frosty Germany, Uli From msittner@mcn.org Fri Apr 9 10:54:16 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040408210819.019001f0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Recent Images on the Wiki #9 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:53:07 -0700 Dear All, Some weeks ago I added a picture of Gladiolus gracilis to the South African Gladiolus page. This bloomed in March. Gladiolus caeruleus often blooms for me in January or occasionally February and almost always when it is raining so it is a gamble every year. The flowers on G. gracilis are smaller, but it the ones I have bloom later, it may work better for me. More recently I have added a picture of Gladiolus caryophyllaceus which has naturalized in Western Australia, but hasn't increased at all for me. I tried to photograph where it is blooming in a raised bed, but couldn't get it in focus until I placed something solid behind it. Blooming for me this year for the first time from seed was Gladiolus quadrangularis. I had this once before from purchased bulbs, but they never bloomed again after the first year. The flowers from before were orange and this species is described as orange to red. Mine grown from seed were yellow and kind of a light apricot-orange. The shape seems right, but not the color. Perhaps they are hybrids. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolus Another genus page I have added several pictures to is Hesperantha. I added a picture of a sp. that has troubled me for a number of years since it came as Geissorhiza seed. I went through the whole Geissorhiza monograph and couldn't figure it out. After my lesson from Rhoda about telling Geissorhiza and Hesperantha apart, I am now sure it is a Hesperantha. I finally threw out the corms (I thought) since it has small flowers that only open very late in the day (if it is warm enough) and close shortly afterwards. As I was repotting this year I came across a lot of unidentified corms (that looked like Geissorhizas.) Not wanting to throw out something that could be special I potted them up. Most didn't come up, but the ones that did appear to be the Hesperantha I thought was gone. I plan to toss it again unless someone writes me privately and wants them. Two other Hesperanthas blooming right now that are more exciting are H. pauciflora and H. pilosa. I saw H. pauciflora in mass in South Africa in a wet year which was very impressive. Some day I'll dig out that slide and scan it. I just have the single flower in bloom making its name seem more appropriate, but this has opened every day for almost a week and is very pretty. Blooming for the first time from seed this year was H. pilosa. I know a lot of these pink Hesperanthas look alike, but this one looked different on the back. It also is a day time bloomer. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Hesperantha Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Apr 9 12:13:25 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040409091015.00bc2e38@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Hyacilnthlus orientalis wild form Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 09:13:08 -0700 Johannes-Ulrich wrote, >I grow some bulbs of Hyacinthus orientalis wild form, some in the open garden >in a mesh pot to avoid them being eaten by mice and some in a pot in the >greenhouse because I think they are not fully hardy. I have grown this bulb from seed and planted the bulbs out in the garden when they were about 3 years old. They have remained there for about 8 years now, flowering well each season. I don't think there is any danger of their being eaten by mice or other rodents -- I believe hyacinth bulbs are unpalatable to these pests, since they are never bothered in my garden, which is horribly infested with both field mice and voles. My plants have survived temperatures as low as 5 degrees F (about minus 15 C). I also grow a form called H. orientalis subsp. chionophyllus, which has lighter blue, larger flowers; it is in the bulb frame at present. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From blweintraub1@earthlink.net Fri Apr 9 15:33:30 2004 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20040409133134.01e9e7a8@earthlink.net> From: Barbara Weintraub Subject: Bellevalia makuensis Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 13:33:27 -0600 Sounds great to me. Any sources? Will CBG release seeds or bulbs? At 10:19 AM 4/7/2004, you wrote: >We have a single bulb of Bellevalia makuensis (tentative identification) >from the Republic of Georgia in our evaluation raised beds with a number >of other geophytes. - Barbara Leaf and Stone Barbara L. Weintraub Santa Fe, NM 7000 ft. elevation blweintraub1@earthlink.net From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Fri Apr 9 15:38:13 2004 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476D33E6C@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Bellevalia makuensis Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:38:12 -0500 Hi Barbara: If it passes the evaluation for invasive characteristics period (typically 3-5 years), I would be glad to share whatever propagules are available. As of this email, the bulb has not produced daughter bulbs and no seedlings are present (a good thing from the invasive evaluation standpoint - but it may mean coming up with propagules may be a problem). Hope you (all) have a good weekend, Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Weintraub [mailto:blweintraub1@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 2:33 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] RE: Bellevalia makuensis Sounds great to me. Any sources? Will CBG release seeds or bulbs? At 10:19 AM 4/7/2004, you wrote: >We have a single bulb of Bellevalia makuensis (tentative identification) >from the Republic of Georgia in our evaluation raised beds with a number >of other geophytes. - Barbara Leaf and Stone Barbara L. Weintraub Santa Fe, NM 7000 ft. elevation blweintraub1@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From blweintraub1@earthlink.net Fri Apr 9 16:36:12 2004 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20040409143522.01e80ec0@earthlink.net> From: Barbara Weintraub Subject: Unusual looking Japanese hybrid Hipp... Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:36:17 -0600 Ditto! At 05:50 AM 4/8/2004, you wrote: >Please add my name to Lee Poulsen's possible Japanese hippeastrum >ordering list! - Cynthia W. Mueller > > >>> mysticgardn@yahoo.com 4/8/04 1:23:25 AM >>> >I second the group order, Ann Marie > >TGlavich@aol.com wrote:Lee, > >It's a great cultivar. > >Patty, > >I'd be willing to participate in a group order. > >Tom - Barbara Leaf and Stone Barbara L. Weintraub Santa Fe, NM 7000 feet elevation blweintraub1@earthlink.net From mrgoldbear@yahoo.com Fri Apr 9 19:11:49 2004 Message-Id: <20040409231148.35829.qmail@web20513.mail.yahoo.com> From: David Sneddon Subject: Seed Solicitation Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 16:11:48 -0700 (PDT) Howdy, Some months back in a thread discussing allium someone said to give a reminder in spring (u.s.a.) and they'd pollinate some allium for the PBS. I hope the time is right for that reminder? Also there are a number of Crinums inclusive of: Erubescens, and wine and milk species and their hybrid - in the Americas which are not easily available here. If anyone has extra seeds coming up in the future pls send some into the PBS. Regards, David. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today From dejager@bulbargence.com Sat Apr 10 03:25:49 2004 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Hyacilnthlus orientalis wild form Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:23:55 +0200 Helaa Jane and Uli, I grow a lovely for of this species found in the Florence area temperarily called 'Villa Petraya" More flowers per stem and shows well above the flowers. I have pictures in my website of both forms to show the difference. It might well be the subsp chionophyllus. Is hardy in our area (zone 8-9) Lauw de Jager http://www.bulbargence.com South of France (zone 8 Olivier) le 9/04/04 18:13, Jane McGary à janemcgary@earthlink.net a écrit : Johannes-Ulrich wrote, >> I grow some bulbs of Hyacinthus orientalis wild form, some in the open garden >> in a mesh pot to avoid them being eaten by mice and some in a pot in the >> greenhouse because I think they are not fully hardy. > > I have grown this bulb from seed and planted the bulbs out in the garden > when they were about 3 years old. They have remained there for about 8 > years now, flowering well each season. I don't think there is any danger of > their being eaten by mice or other rodents -- I believe hyacinth bulbs are > unpalatable to these pests, since they are never bothered in my garden, > which is horribly infested with both field mice and voles. My plants have > survived temperatures as low as 5 degrees F (about minus 15 C). I also grow > a form called H. orientalis subsp. chionophyllus, which has lighter blue, > larger flowers; it is in the bulb frame at present. Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence Mas d'Argence 30300 Fourques France tel 31(0)466 016 519 fax 0466 011 245 http://www.bulbargence.com From dejager@bulbargence.com Sat Apr 10 03:26:05 2004 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Recovering from floods Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:23:59 +0200 Dear all, The nursery was flooded the 3 decembre by 2 m of water and a strong current during 3 days, which left a deposit of 30-70cm of sludgy sand. Since then much have been done to recuperate our plants. Within a month the shade hall and the collapsed plastic tunnel was freed from the deposit and drained. In the garden we dug (where feasable) the most precious species and replanted them higher up (the fact that many bulbs were planted in wirenetting helped). The most affected are the species which were in leaf early december (and on the surface growing evergreens). Most sowings of autumn 2003 have disappeared except those of late emergence. Now it is becoming apperant which species have survived: survivors are: Fritilaria, Narcissus, gladiolus(splendens and tristis are in flower) Hesperantha bachmannii, Anemone coronaria, Tecophelia, Areacea, Sparaxis Ipheion, Hyacinthoides, Leucojum, Crinum, Pancratium (except zeylanicum), Lycoris (except with too much cover and L radiata) Species which are sulking but alive: Morea, Ixia, Disappeared: Tulipa (except T sylvestris), Sternbergia, Dahlia, Dietes, Agapanthus, Neomarica, Hyacinthus, Evergreen rhizomatic Iris, Tropaeolum, Ferraria As flowering is sporadic and the labels have floated around many species have to be reidentified. Fortunately the field of 2 ha only had 50cm of water and no deposit has not been affected and sales were normal this spring. The nursery on the seaside with Haemanthus, Brunsvigia Amaryllis belladonna, Nerines has not been affected. Expedition and plantfairs participation was started again mid January and has now terminated to concentrate on reconstruction the nursery and our house. In June we will start selling again, but for one season many species will not be available. Thanks again to the many people who took an interest during this rather impressive period and provided moral support. We are happy to report that with spring flowering around, things are looking up again. Kind regards Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence Mas d'Argence 30300 Fourques France tel 31(0)466 016 519 fax 0466 011 245 http://www.bulbargence.com From msittner@mcn.org Sat Apr 10 10:53:49 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040410072217.01906880@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Hyacinthus orientalis wild form Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 07:44:11 -0700 Dear All, The picture of Lauw's Hyacinthus orientalis 'Villa Petraya' makes it look quite nice. The color is much better than mine which is a light purple. It is disappointing to read that this is one of the bulbs currently missing from Lauw's inventory. It sounds like Jim Waddick can grow the cultivars just fine in his colder garden, but people are suggesting the wild form for warmer gardens. Has anyone tested the hardiness? While I was looking on Lauw's web page I checked out what pictures he had for Bellevalia, our topic of the week and he has a picture of Bellevalia romana (the "good doer"), the one I didn't get a picture for our wiki. Under the description he has called it a "Roman Hyacinth" which is what Cynthia Mueller talked about growing in Texas. I asked her what she thought the botanical name was for her plants and she suggested it could be Hyacinthus orientalis var. albulus. I searched in the IPNI list and there isn't any listing for this. There is a listing for H. orientalis however. There are two published listing for Hyacinthus romanus however. One equals dubius so perhaps that listing was for what is now known as Bellevalia dubia. There is another one for Hyacinthus romanus however which would be a logical botanical name for Roman Hyacinths. So if this plant is now known as Bellevalia romana it sounds like we have two different plants that are called Roman Hyacinths. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From msittner@mcn.org Sat Apr 10 10:53:32 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040410074430.01911820@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Recovering from floods Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 07:52:04 -0700 Dear Lauw, Thanks so much for catching us up with your nursery. I know a lot of us have wanted to know. We are glad for the progress you have made and hope that more things will return later that gave up for the year this year. It sounds like you will be busy perfecting your plant identification skills with all the tags lost. I find it half frustrating, half challenging (all frustrating) when I can't figure them out but {all satisfying) when I can identify all those pots the birds remove tags for in the fall. To have so many doesn't sound fun at all. I'm glad you haven't lost all your Moraeas even if they are sulking. Mary Sue From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Sat Apr 10 13:04:12 2004 Message-Id: <40782F3F.3B656E5E@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Recovering from floods Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:30:39 -0700 Dear Lauw: When in Normandy a few weeks ago, I saw on T.V. some of the problems you have faced. I do wish you every success in getting all back in order. I hope the authorities give you assistance, do they? On the 21st I return to Normandy, much work to do on the grounds of the Chateau of Canisy. The Narcissus you sent and the Cyclamen disappeared, at least I saw no sign of them in March, I hope some will emerge, if not we will have to plant again. Every good wish, Cheers, John E. Bryan Lauw de Jager wrote: > > Dear all, > The nursery was flooded the 3 decembre by 2 m of water and a strong current > during 3 days, which left a deposit of 30-70cm of sludgy sand. Since then > much have been done to recuperate our plants. Within a month the shade hall > and the collapsed plastic tunnel was freed from the deposit and drained. In > the garden we dug (where feasable) the most precious species and replanted > them higher up (the fact that many bulbs were planted in wirenetting > helped). The most affected are the species which were in leaf early december > (and on the surface growing evergreens). Most sowings of autumn 2003 have > disappeared except those of late emergence. > Now it is becoming apperant which species have survived: > survivors are: Fritilaria, Narcissus, gladiolus(splendens and tristis are in > flower) Hesperantha bachmannii, Anemone coronaria, Tecophelia, Areacea, > Sparaxis Ipheion, Hyacinthoides, Leucojum, Crinum, Pancratium (except > zeylanicum), Lycoris (except with too much cover and L radiata) > Species which are sulking but alive: > Morea, Ixia, > Disappeared: Tulipa (except T sylvestris), Sternbergia, Dahlia, Dietes, > Agapanthus, Neomarica, Hyacinthus, Evergreen rhizomatic Iris, Tropaeolum, > Ferraria > As flowering is sporadic and the labels have floated around many species > have to be reidentified. > Fortunately the field of 2 ha only had 50cm of water and no deposit has not > been affected and sales were normal this spring. The nursery on the seaside > with Haemanthus, Brunsvigia Amaryllis belladonna, Nerines has not been > affected. > Expedition and plantfairs participation was started again mid January and > has now terminated to concentrate on reconstruction the nursery and our > house. In June we will start selling again, but for one season many species > will not be available. > Thanks again to the many people who took an interest during this rather > impressive period and provided moral support. We are happy to report that > with spring flowering around, things are looking up again. > Kind regards > > Lauw de Jager > Bulb'Argence > Mas d'Argence > 30300 Fourques France > tel 31(0)466 016 519 fax 0466 011 245 > http://www.bulbargence.com > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From leo1010@attglobal.net Sun Apr 11 17:01:31 2004 Message-Id: <407987F3.6010409@attglobal.net> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Central Arizona Cactus and Succulent Show and Sale Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 14:01:23 -0400 Slightly off-topic, but there have been a few Albuca, Bulbine, Drimia, Haemanthus, Rauhia, and Scilla available in the past. *** The Central Arizona Cactus and Succulent Society will host its 30th Show and Sale. http://www.centralarizonacactus.org When: Friday - Sunday, April 16 - 18, 2004 Friday- Saturday 9am - 5pm Sunday 9am - 4pm Where: Dorrance Hall, Desert Botanical Garden, 1201 N Galvin Parkway, Papago Park, Phoenix. The DBG is just north of the Phoenix Zoo. Dorrance Hall is next to the Butterfly Pavilion at the DBG. For maps and further Garden information, go to the DBG Web site: http://www.dbg.org More: Hundreds of show plants, and thousands of sale plants and containers. For a current list of the 15 vendors, see http://www.centralarizonacactus.org/vendors.htm Included with Garden admission. Payment accepted: Cash, check with ID, MasterCard, VISA. Free plant for all kids under 15. This overlaps with the Saturday April 17 CSSA Board meeting at the Scottsdale Plaza Resort, just a few miles north of the DBG. I will be at the Show and Sale all day Friday and Sunday, and may be there late Saturday afternoon if the Board meeting breaks early enough. I hope to see you there. Leo -- Leo A. Martin Show Chair, Central Arizona Cactus and Succulent Society From c-mueller@tamu.edu Sun Apr 11 15:51:29 2004 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: "Yellow" hippeastrum Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 14:51:13 -0500 This "yellow" or cream-yellow hippeastrum bloomed for the first time in my garden this year. It had been overshadowed by its neighbors, possibly for some time. Who could identify this? Is it similar to anything in the Sahuc collection? It doesn't look like a narrow enough trumpet to pass for Germa, and also doesn't quite look like Yellow Pioneer. View the two images at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Hippeastrum_yellow_CWM.jpg and http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Hippeastrum_yellow2_cwm.jpg Cynthia W. Mueller College Station, TX From thisisnotgonnawork@yahoo.com Sun Apr 11 16:37:25 2004 Message-Id: <20040411203724.68911.qmail@web40409.mail.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: "Yellow" hippeastrum Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 13:37:24 -0700 (PDT) Looks something like H. anzaldoi to me. James Frelichowski CA. --- Cynthia Mueller wrote: > This "yellow" or cream-yellow hippeastrum bloomed > for the first time in > my garden this year. It had been overshadowed by > its neighbors, > possibly for some time. > > Who could identify this? Is it similar to anything > in the Sahuc > collection? It doesn't look like a narrow enough > trumpet to pass for > Germa, and also doesn't quite look like Yellow > Pioneer. > > View the two images at: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Hippeastrum_yellow_CWM.jpg > > and > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Hippeastrum_yellow2_cwm.jpg > > Cynthia W. Mueller > College Station, TX > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From c-mueller@tamu.edu Sun Apr 11 21:59:15 2004 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: 'yellow' hippeastrum, again Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:59:00 -0500 James Frelichowski replied to my inquiry about the identity of a 'yellow' hippeastrum by saying ..."Looks something like H. anzaldoi to me." James - could you tell us a little about H. anzaldoi? Was it in the Sahuc collection? Cynthia W. Mueller From msittner@mcn.org Sun Apr 11 23:54:35 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040410153644.00d01d80@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Fragrances that Surprise--TOW Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:46:02 -0700 Dear All, Our topic of the week this week was inspired by a suggestion of Robert Parker's. He thought an interesting topic would be to tell about bulbs that have a notable fragrance that you have not seen mentioned in the literature. I am expanding this to include bulbs that have a fragrance that surprises you because they do not fit the description you have read about them. Perhaps you like the smell when you have read the smell is dreadful. Or perhaps something that is billed as wonderfully fragrant has a fragrance that you'd keep at a distance. Please share with the group any bulbs that fit any of these possibilities or even just surprise you even if you read they had an unusual fragrance. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From dells@voicenet.com Mon Apr 12 06:43:23 2004 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 59 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 06:44:02 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 59" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Lynn Makela: 1. Rhizomes of Gloxinia sylvatica 2. Bulbs of Zephyranthes verecunda rosea 3. Bulbs of Cypella peruviana From Mary Sue Ittner: 4. bulbs of Oxalis purpurea (white) -- winter growing, long blooming, but beware of planting in the ground in a Mediterranean climate unless you don't care if it takes over as it expands dramatically, a lot. 5. Tritonia disticha--orange flowers in fall, summer growing, only a few; needs to be planted soon. 6. Bulbs of Eucomis bicolor. These are bulbs started April 2002 from Silverhill seed and still small, and need to be planted Seed from Garry Reid (Australian Bulb Merchant) that he said I could share with the group if I already grew it: 7. Arthropodium strictum--Winter Growing from Australia 8. Solenomelus pedunculatus--Evergreen?, think Sisyrinchium type leaves, from Chile, yellow flowers, quick from seed now. Thank you, Lynn, Mary Sue, and Garry !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From msittner@mcn.org Mon Apr 12 10:47:51 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040412071510.00d0c5d0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Solenomelus pedunculatus and latest BX Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:46:29 -0700 Dear All, I ordered seeds of this from the NARGS list after reading about it in the Innes book. I started the seed February 2003 having no idea when it should be started. It came up a month later and started blooming this year in March so that's another one for the one year group. I have no idea how hardy it is. It has new flowers every few days. It has bright yellow flowers so all of you who don't like yellow flowers should give it at a miss. I am really enjoying it. Gary called it one of those "understated plants that are extremely attractive when looked at closely." I made a wiki page to add pictures so people could see what the foliage and flowers look like The flower is very unusual and so there are pictures from a couple of angles. There are Clarkia leaves in my pictures as I let them reseed every year in my garden which is another reason why I took a picture just of the leaves. I got seed of another Solenomelus species from NARGS at the same time, but it didn't germinate until almost a year later. The first hit you get on Google describes the flower as Gladiolus-like. Check out my pictures and see if any of you think this flower looks like a Gladiolus. I don't. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Solenomelus Arthropodium strictum (Dichopogon strictum) from Australia is called the chocolate lily because of its fragrance. Garry suggested growing it in light shade or morning sun and afternoon shade. Mine are just about to bloom so I should be able to add a picture to the wiki. I don't think I have a good picture from before but some of our Australian list members may have one and there is a picture of one in the ABA Gallery: http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/ Julian Slade has written about Australian Native Bulbs on the ABA website for all of you who might be interested: http://www.ausbulbs.org/AustBulbs.htm Mary Sue From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Apr 12 21:56:16 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040412101311.017cad60@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Aroid issue Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:13:57 -0700 The cover plant for the fall 2004 issue of the Rock Garden Quarterly is Arisaema triphyllum, and I'd like to feature not just this plant but also other aroids grown in North American rock and woodland gardens. I know that there are many Arisaema enthusiasts out there, and I hope some of you will contribute your observations and photos to this issue. Please consider writing a Plant Portrait (300-700 words, no photo necessary but photos welcome) on a single species or a close group; or a more extended article on a genus, techniques of cultivation (such as growing from seed and cleaning the seed, which require special attention in this family), or design with aroids. Subjects should be restricted to non-tropical species; if you're flowering Amorphophallus titanum, I'm sure we'd all like to hear about it if not smell it, but it's not really a Rock Garden Quarterly topic! Some topics I hope to hear about: --Select flower and leaf forms of Arisaema triphyllum --Arisaema dracontium, the "other American" --Pinellia --Biarum (please!) --Propagating the aroids --Arisarum (where is it winter-hardy?) --Seed collection and germination of hardy aroids --Arisaemas in garden design --Arum species suitable for the rock garden The deadline for receipt of copy and photos is AUGUST 1, 2004. Apologies to those who receive this twice -- I'm putting it on Alpine-L as well. Thanks much, Jane McGary Editor, NARGS From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Apr 12 21:56:17 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040412101418.00bc05c8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Fragrances that Surprise--TOW Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:22:30 -0700 Because I grow many of my bulbs in cold frames, I'm often surprised by fragrance that I wouldn't have noticed in the open garden. Many flower scents do not "carry" in cold air but become obvious in the extra warmth under glass. I often raise one of the lights in the late morning and notice a new fragrance. The honey scent of crocuses rushes out even in January. I knew that Erythronium helenae was fragrant and thought it was the only species that was, but E. hendersonii also has a sweet scent, and this characteristic is imparted to at least some of its hybrids (it's useful for hybridizing because it imparts a pink color and seems to be more interfertile than E. revolutum). The lovely fragrance of Fritillaria striata has often been noted. F. liliacea has a faintly sweet scent, but I rarely appreciate it because most of my flowering plants are in close proximity to F. agrestis, which has the worst stench in the genus. Narcissus fernandesii and N. cordubensis are so similar that some authorities combine them in a single species. Curiously, N. fernandesii has a powerful "jonquil" aroma and flowers here a month later than N. cordubensis, which has a fainter scent in the form I have. N. jonquilla, of course, is famous for its fragrance, and being late, is scenting all the gardens now. Two half-hardy bulbs with night-scented flowers are just coming into bloom now: a Hesperantha species, and Gladiolus tristis. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Mon Apr 12 18:04:33 2004 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476B9768F@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Fragrances that Surprise--TOW Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:04:34 -0500 I've never thought of Narcissus as being all that fragrant. Earlier in my horticulture career I am sure I must have stuck my nose in a few Daffodils and I know in my part-time high school job as a florist deliveryman they didn't seem to have a fragrance at all. So imagine my surprise when my questing nose for the most wonderful fragrance late one spring brought me to a small flowered Narcissus with grasslike foliage - Narcissus jonquilla, or one of its hybrids. I've added to the 'must have's' of my garden and have enjoyed this fragrant delight ever since. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org Northern suburbs of Chicago, USDA zone 5, where the snow pellets flew on Easter and rainfall is at the lowest levels in 117 years. Fortunately, most plants are still dormant and relatively immune to the very cold winds experienced recently. Oh Spring - Wherefor Art Thou! From Blee811@aol.com Mon Apr 12 18:10:48 2004 Message-Id: <9f.461afc87.2dac6de0@aol.com> From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: Fragrances that Surprise--TOW Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:10:40 EDT In a message dated 4/12/2004 6:05:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, btankers@chicagobotanic.org writes: > So imagine my surprise when my questing nose for the most wonderful > fragrance late one spring brought me to a small flowered Narcissus with grasslike > foliage - Narcissus jonquilla, or one of its hybrids. I've added to the 'must > have's' of my garden and have enjoyed this fragrant delight ever since. > Boyce, most of the jonquil cultivars are fragrant, since it's a characteristic of N. jonquilla. Many of the tazettas are also fragrant, although some people perceive the fragrance as unpleasant. I also find fragrance in many double daffodils. Check out the citrusy fragrance of 'Sir Winston Churchill'. And don't overlook 'Fragrant Rose', yes a daffodil with the fragrance of a rose, especially when it is relatively freshly open--not everyone can detect it; more men than women seem to be able to detect it when I ask them, but my female friends say the men are lying. Bill Lee From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Apr 13 11:40:42 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040412193051.00bb8d50@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: New photos on wiki Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 19:32:58 -0700 I have posted some new photos on the wiki, including Fritillaria acmopetala, which I hope everyone will look at so you can identify all the occurrences of it that you are growing under other names! http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Fritillaria There are two Ornithogalum species, O. fimbriatum and O. reverchonii: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Ornithogalum And a spectacular camas, C. quamash var. maxima: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Camassia And a great big plant of Narcissus triandrus: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Narcissus And Leucojum nicaeense, now known as Acis nicaeensis: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Leucojum I wish there were a Paeonia page so I could also post P. cambessedesii (now, apparently, to revert to its prior name, P. corsica, which is easier to spell and say), because I took a really good photo of it today! Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Tue Apr 13 00:48:46 2004 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: A few central Texas wildflower bulbs Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:48:46 -0700 Last week we went to Austin, Texas to visit my family and my wife wanted to visit Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center since this is the season when much of Texas bursts into an incredible display of wildflowers almost everywhere you look. Among other flowers, I took some photos of Hymenocallis liriosme and Iris virginica var. shrevei and put them on the wiki. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Hymenocallis http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Iris Our last night there we went to eat dinner at the home of a longtime friend of mine who has moved out into the Hill Country of Central Texas. We got there before sunset and were out in their "backyard" when I noticed a beautiful blue flower here and there, mostly near or under the live oaks dotting his property. I tried to take some pictures, but most of them were blurry due to the diminishing light (and my own difficulty taking close-ups with a digital camera). Also, the flowers were starting to shrivel up. In all my years growing up and living there, I had never seen this flower, nor have I seen it in any of the bulb galleries. I know it is a bulbs because I got my friend's permission to dig up a couple. (He recognized it as the purple bulb he kept digging up when he prepared the beds for his vegetable garden. He also dug up a lot of larger native rainlily bulbs at the same time.) Mary Sue has looked in her few books on the area and has tentatively identified it as one of the Nemastylis species. I uploaded a few photos to the Mystery Bulbs page. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MysteryBulbs --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Tue Apr 13 01:00:54 2004 Message-Id: <8B44ADF0-8D07-11D8-9D1D-0003936313F6@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: More wiki photos Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:00:54 -0700 When we got back from the trip to Texas, lots of things were in bloom here at home. I've uploaded a few images of some of them. Two Leucocorynes, one identified as L. coquimbense, but it looks like Sheila Burrow's L. vittata on the wiki, although it looks like all three L. coquimbensis on the IBS Bulb Gallery. The other one came in a package labeled Leucocoryne Mixed Hybrids, and looks like L. purpurea on the wiki. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Leucocoryne My various Rhodohypoxis are starting to sprout and come into bloom. A "Deep Pink" one is the first to bloom. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Rhodohypoxis A fairly large flowered Freesia grandiflora (labelled Anomatheca grandiflora) is in bloom. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Freesia And finally two Hippeastrum hybrids: Lima, which is an H. cybister hybrid. And Madame Butterfly, which is an enormous H. papilio hybrid. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HippeastrumHybrids --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From msittner@mcn.org Tue Apr 13 01:47:51 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040412223128.01917e30@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: A few central Texas wildflower bulbs Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:36:43 -0700 Dear All, My guess is that Lee's mystery plant is Nemastylis geminiflora, syn. N. acuta. The only thing that doesn't quite seem right is the books say that the flowers shrivel at midday and Lee's were open much longer. The painting in my "Texas Flowers in Natural Color" looks like this species, also known by its common name, Prairie Celestial. Cynthia, is this a flower you are familiar with? Mary Sue From Theladygardens@aol.com Tue Apr 13 02:19:50 2004 Message-Id: <157.32702f6c.2dace083@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Lots of bloom Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 02:19:47 EDT My garden is a riot of color now with the Pacific Coast Hybrid Iris winding down, the Spurias opening, a few Louisiana Iris opening, and hundreds of different bearded iris in bloom. The narcissus 'phesants eye' is strarting to open, just a few of hundreds. The most fascinating thing is the Agave called 'Century Plant'. A week ago Sunday evening my husband and I both noticed that the top of it looked different. In 1 week it has sent up a stalk 8' tall. It looks like an asparagus stalk on steroids. At this rate of speed we expect it will bloom in about 2 weeks. You can watch it grow. Lots of beautiful rose bloom, alstromeria, lavender and other stuff. Unfortunately still to many weeds. The garden is open to the public from 11 a.m. to 4 p.m. on weekends. If any of you are going to be in the area, please come by. Carolyn in Los Gatos, CA From dells@voicenet.com Tue Apr 13 06:42:02 2004 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: BX 59 CLOSED !!!!! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 06:43:36 -0400 Wow, I can tell that spring is here. These items went very fast. I will try to accommodate as many wishes as possible but fear that things won't stretch that far. Packages should go out later in the week. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Apr 13 09:52:28 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Central Texas wildflower bulbs Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:07:12 -0500 >Dear Lee; This is the Irid, Nemastylis gemmiflora. One of its name is 'Celestial lily'. >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MysteryBulbs Although it grows less than 100 miles from me, I have never managed to grow this beauty. It is very fleeting. In KS it grows on prairies with bulbs 8 inches or deeper and pea sized. A beauty. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From ggroiti@agro.uba.ar Tue Apr 13 09:07:35 2004 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040413095927.02224a70@pop3.agro.uba.ar> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n?= Roitman Subject: Alberto Castillo Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:07:30 -0300 Dear all: I have good news, Alberto Castillo is recovering very well, i have just talked to him by phone, i will go to visit him at the hospital soon. i will keep you posted Germán _______________________________________ Ing. Agr. MSc Germán Roitman mailto:groitman@mail.retina.ar Cátedra de Jardinería FAUBA Av. San Martín 4453. 1417. Buenos Aires Argentina ICQ: 1837762 _______________________________________ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 09/04/2004 From c-mueller@tamu.edu Tue Apr 13 09:35:06 2004 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: A few central Texas wildflower bulbs Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:34:50 -0500 Mary Sue: There are beautiful Prairie Celestials blooming here and there on the grounds of the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center in Austin, Texas. I've never been fortunate enough to have any of my own, but would love to add them to my collection. I didn't take note of the time of day they were in flower. Cynthia W. Mueller >>> msittner@mcn.org 4/13/04 12:36:43 AM >>> Dear All, My guess is that Lee's mystery plant is Nemastylis geminiflora, syn. N. acuta. The only thing that doesn't quite seem right is the books say that the flowers shrivel at midday and Lee's were open much longer. The painting in my "Texas Flowers in Natural Color" looks like this species, also known by its common name, Prairie Celestial. Cynthia, is this a flower you are familiar with? Mary Sue _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Tue Apr 13 12:23:03 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040413090525.018fec90@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: New photos on wiki Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:21:45 -0700 Dear All and especially Jane, I've added a Paeonia start on the photographs page so Jane you can click on the question mark and add the text to make it a wiki page and add your really good picture. I am resending Jane's message with the correct links to take you to the wiki pages, not to the files pages as you will end up at a dead end with some of those links and the files pages don't allow you to read Jane's text which is always informative. I especially liked that Camassia. It's such a different color than the dark purple one I have blooming now. Mary Sue The correct links are: I have posted some new photos on the wiki, including Fritillaria acmopetala, which I hope everyone will look at so you can identify all the occurrences of it that you are growing under other names! http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Fritillaria http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Fritillaria There are two Ornithogalum species, O. fimbriatum and O. reverchonii: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Ornithogalum And a spectacular camas, C. quamash var. maxima: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Camassia And a great big plant of Narcissus triandrus: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Narcissus And Leucojum nicaeense, now known as Acis nicaeensis: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Leucojum I wish there were a Paeonia page so I could also post P. cambessedesii (now, apparently, to revert to its prior name, P. corsica, which is easier to spell and say), because I took a really good photo of it today! From ggroiti@agro.uba.ar Tue Apr 13 13:03:53 2004 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040413134742.0221c978@pop3.agro.uba.ar> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n?= Roitman Subject: New photos on wiki Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 14:03:41 -0300 Deal all: looking at the mistery bulbs page, http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MysteryBulbs i realized that the 2 pictures labelled as Habranthus or Rhodophiala, taken Sept. 2003 by Lee Poulsen are Habranthus brachyandrus from Argentina and Brazil. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Habranthus-Rhodophia1081Cb.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Habranthus-Rhodophia1081Cd.jpg Best wishes Germán _______________________________________ Ing. Agr. MSc Germán Roitman mailto:groitman@mail.retina.ar Cátedra de Jardinería FAUBA Av. San Martín 4453. 1417. Buenos Aires Argentina ICQ: 1837762 _______________________________________ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 09/04/2004 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Apr 13 13:09:53 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040413100630.00bb8dd0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Paeonia photos Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:09:45 -0700 Thanks, Mary Sue, for adding a Paeonia page. I trust we will restrict this to species peonies, not hybrids. I've written a tentative introduction, which I hope Jim Waddick will edit for us, since he knows more about the subject than I do by a long run. The photos I've uploaded are of P. cambessedesii, P. mlokosewitschii, and P. tenuifolia, all of which are in flower here as I write. I hope this is the right link (I still don't understand the wiki entirely!): http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Paeonia Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From mark@marksgardenplants.com Tue Apr 13 14:30:59 2004 Message-Id: <003301c42185$847c1d70$403c2bd9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: looking for small Narcissus Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:31:20 +0100 hi all I'm trying to trace supplieers of small growing Narcissus which are less that 6 inches high. I'm trying to find 'Wee Bee', 'Tiny Tot', 'Rosaline Murphy', 'Lilliput', 'Bambi' and 'Candlepower'. any ideas? Mark N Ireland From Jamievande@freenet.de Tue Apr 13 14:59:50 2004 Message-Id: <017f01c4218a$5f330880$6502a8c0@Jamie2> From: "Jamie" Subject: looking for small Narcissus Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:06:01 +0200 mark, have you tried Broadliegh Gardens? www.broadlieghbulbs.co.uk They carry quite a few, but I do not remember the ones you mentioned on their lists. jamie V. Cologne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Smyth" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 8:31 PM Subject: [pbs] looking for small Narcissus > hi all > > I'm trying to trace supplieers of small growing Narcissus which are less > that 6 inches high. I'm trying to find 'Wee Bee', 'Tiny Tot', 'Rosaline > Murphy', 'Lilliput', 'Bambi' and 'Candlepower'. > > any ideas? > > Mark > N Ireland > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From africanbulbs@haznet.co.za Wed Apr 14 04:16:05 2004 Message-Id: <000201c421fb$597d2c60$c56b27c4@ecuser62> From: "Cameron McMaster" Subject: Fragrances tha Surprise - TOW Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:35:47 +0200 Tulbaghia acutiloba will always be on my 'must have' list. My first encounter with it was late one afternoon when I couldn't figure out which one of my plants was emitting such a beautiful strong scent, almost like cinnamon. What a surprise when it turned out to be the insignificant flower of an onion family! It has a scent only after about 4 pm for a couple of hours. Another good one is Tulbaghia simmleri (used to be T. fragrans). Rhoda Napier, W. Cape Blooming now in the wild (Renosterbos) around Napier: Haemanthus coccineus, Nerine humilis, Gladiolus vaginatus, Tritoniopsis pulchra, Brunsvigia orientalis (just over) and an Oxalis sp. From mark@marksgardenplants.com Tue Apr 13 17:51:03 2004 Message-Id: <007201c421a1$7841b580$403c2bd9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: looking for small Narcissus Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:51:25 +0100 thanks Jamie As far as I can tell she doesn't part with unusual Narcissus very often. Mark N Ireland > have you tried Broadliegh Gardens? www.broadlieghbulbs.co.uk From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Apr 13 18:01:05 2004 Message-Id: <407C631E.7020500@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: looking for small Narcissus Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:01:02 -0400 Mark: Try these: http://www.cherrydaf.net/index.html http://www.asis.com/~nwilson/ Arnold From hkoopowi@uci.edu Tue Apr 13 18:51:51 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.2.20040413154549.00b52860@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Great on-line catalog Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:51:26 -0700 I just looked at the on-line catalog for Cherry Creek, it has one of the most spectacular listings of Daffodils and other rare connoisseurs bulbs that I have seen in a long time. But.... What is even more exciting, one can look into the future and get a feel for the wonderful future introductions that are now undergoing trial. Wow! Sorry this sounds like a commercial but there are some wonderful pictures of new seedlings that one can see, here. http://www.cherrydaf.net/index.html Harold From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Apr 13 20:18:22 2004 Message-Id: <407C834D.1040906@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Narcissus 'Quince' Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:18:21 -0400 Rodger: Nancy Wilson has Quince. http://www.asis.com/~nwilson/index.html Arnold From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Apr 13 21:40:40 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Great on-line catalog Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:23:56 -0500 Dear All; Just a reminder that Cherry Creek Daffodils is owned by the wild and wonderful Steve Vinisky who has faded from the bulb cyber communications. Can anyone convince him to return? The Sid Dubose introductions that are exclusive to Cherry Creek are incredible plants. Wish I could afford more of these jewels. My favorite is 'Raspberry Rose' with the a unique pink/rose cup on a pure white ground. Nancy Wilson was one of the source quoted last month in the TOW on smaller daffodils. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Apr 13 21:40:41 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: PeonieS! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:38:12 -0500 Dear All; I have briefly spoken up about accepting peonies into our geophytic company. They certainly has the life style and structure of most fall planted hardy bulbs. I recently heard of person who managed to grow P. corsica from seed to bloom in only 2 years. I'm not sure if that was seed in summer of year 1 and bloom in spring of year 3 or seedling in spring of year 1 and bloom in spring of year 3. Probably the latter, but still extraordinarily fast. I have my first bloom on P. mlokosewitschii yesterday and more species are full of buds.. I think all the species have consideration above and beyond the fleeting explosion of gorgeous flowers. There is a range of size and form from the smallest rock garden types (a foot or even less) to near shrubs over 4 feet tall (and not including the woody species). Foliage can range from needle like and ferny to large, rounded oval and rough with many variables in between. This also gives me an opportunity to mention the new book (The Genus Paeonia) by the eminent Czech botanist Josef Halda with help from me (Timber Press) that is just out and available from all the usual sources. More details than most casual growers will ever need. Some incredible color plates and line drawings that alone are worth the price. I'm leaving Thursday am to lead a group of intrepid travellers to the annual tree peony festivals in NE China. We're hoping to see hundreds of thousands of tree peonies in bloom. Our group includes some well known names of peony growers from the US, Canada, Germany, Australia and Denmark. And more to go. Best and thanks Jane. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From msittner@mcn.org Wed Apr 14 01:13:32 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040413220350.0191b320@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: PeonieS! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:12:05 -0700 Dear All, Jim Waddick has offered to do a topic of the week on peonies some time and I am looking forward to it. I always assumed it wouldn't be cold enough here in Northern California to grow them, but then on a trip to Australia we got to visit Trevor Nottle's garden near Adelaide. His garden is a Mediterranean garden and his philosophy seemed to be that in the summer you rest when it rests. We saw it in spring and I was really taken with the gorgeous peonies he had grown from seed. He told us he looked for species that flowered early before it got really hot. At the time I told myself that I had enough to grow without getting hooked on something else, but when we looked at our slides of his garden, those pictures of the peonies were some of my favorites. Jane's pictures give a beginning idea of the variety. What a great start for that wiki page. I am sure we all wish Jim a good trip and good sales for his book. Mary Sue From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Wed Apr 14 02:46:39 2004 Message-Id: <006601c421ec$3bca7920$9ee4403e@John> From: Subject: Fragrances that Surprise--TOW Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:20:42 +0100 I place great value on fragrance in flowers, and take the trouble to have a sniff at most things. So many spring flowers are beautifully scented: the perfume on entering an RHS show in February or March is quite wonderful. Warmth, however is often needed to release it, hence the failure to notice it in the garden. I have no objection to the stinks of aroids and frits, but what I really hate is the scent of lilies and hyacinths. A bed of trumpet or oriental lilies pumping out their sickly pong pollutes the air about it, and I have to leave - much though I admire the plants and their flowers. I once got a pew at a wedding immediately adjacent to a great mass of lilies and was poisoned throughout the service. As Shakespeare said: 'Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds.' Lilium candidum is an honourable exception. While on a rant about lilies, I object very strongly to the florists' trick of emasculating the flowers, to prevent the pollen staining. The intention is admirable, perhaps, but it removes the beauty of the flower - that circle of six orange anthers poised above the segments give the flower life and beauty, lost when they are removed. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Gardens Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk > From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Wed Apr 14 04:49:31 2004 Message-Id: <000401c421fc$683e3900$8ee02052@TheAfricanGarden> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Fragrances tha Surprise - TOW Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:42:22 +0100 >>>>Tulbaghia acutiloba will always be on my 'must have' list. Rhoda Hi Rhoda, Hopefully by the time you get here in June both Tulbaghia violacea x capensis CGV1970 will be in flower which is also cinnomon scented, and crossed fingers Tulbaghia macrocarpa which strongly smells of almond. If lucky you might even smell banana on some of the Tulbaghia violacea here; and no I'm not going mad. One bulb I do like the fragrance of is Crinum firmifolium from Madagascar, to me it smells of violets. Best Wishes, Dave (Plymouth, UK) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.655 / Virus Database: 420 - Release Date: 08/04/04 From Jamievande@freenet.de Wed Apr 14 06:02:58 2004 Message-Id: <008801c42208$8d3e2740$6502a8c0@Jamie2> From: "Jamie" Subject: Paeonies Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:09:18 +0200 Morning, Gang, I've added a few more photos to the Paeony page. As other plants bloom, I'll be posting them. The photo of P. ostii may well be the cultivar Fen Dan Bai, which appears to be a common name for this species when grown for medicinal purposes. What ever its true identity, it is a lovely, if a bit toooo early blooming, plant. Mine has a massive root structure reminding us, it is a geophyte! http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Paeonia Jane, that is one fabulous shot of P. cambessedesii. Ciao, Jamie V. Cologne Zone 8 From Zonneveld@rulbim.leidenuniv.nl Wed Apr 14 07:36:52 2004 Message-Id: <407D3D02.3390.F2DA3F@localhost> From: "zonneveld" Subject: erythronium DNA Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:30:42 +0200 Dear Bulb lovers For reasons unclear to me ( well, they have nice flowers) I have started to measure total amount of nuclear DNA content in Erythroniums G Dunlop of Ireland of Ballyogar nursery has a nice collection and has provided me with a fair range. Having started with it I want to finish it. Those that are missing are : Erythronium grandiflorum, klamathense, mesochoreum, pluriflorum, propullans, purpurascens, pusaterii, rostratum, quinaultense, taylori and maybe a few others. I will be most gratefull for anybody who can supply me with a single fresh leaf of any of the above. Thanks PS I am also looking for a tetraploid Trillium ( T rhombifolium?) Ben J.M.Zonneveld Institute of Biology,Leiden University, Clusius lab Wassenaarse weg 64, 2333 AL Leiden, The Netherlands Zonneveld@rulbim.Leidenuniv.NL Fax: +31-71-5274999. min temp -10C (15F) From matthewgale@btopenworld.com Wed Apr 14 07:37:29 2004 Message-Id: <002601c42215$0db2dd60$3f8c8351@default> From: "MATTHEW GALE" Subject: Fragrances tha Surprise - TOW Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:37:11 +0100 You're not going mad, Dave! I've noticed that some of my Tulbaghia violacea are scented, but only the white ones. It's quite faint compared to some of the other species, but similar to the scent of bananas. Matthew (Birmingham, UK) ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Fenwick" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Fragrances tha Surprise - TOW > >>>>Tulbaghia acutiloba will always be on my 'must have' list. > Rhoda > > Hi Rhoda, > Hopefully by the time you get here in June both Tulbaghia violacea x > capensis CGV1970 will be in flower which is also cinnomon scented, and > crossed fingers Tulbaghia macrocarpa which strongly smells of almond. > > If lucky you might even smell banana on some of the Tulbaghia violacea here; > and no I'm not going mad. > > One bulb I do like the fragrance of is Crinum firmifolium from Madagascar, > to me it smells of violets. > > Best Wishes, > Dave (Plymouth, UK) > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.655 / Virus Database: 420 - Release Date: 08/04/04 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From angelopalm69@inwind.it Wed Apr 14 08:57:14 2004 Message-Id: <000901c4221f$85923a60$de9e623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Hippeastrum papilio confusion Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:53:10 +0200 Dear group, I have some H.papilio, a Dutch strain, which are blooming now. While I read on Thad Howard's and the recent Veronica Read's books this species carries 2-3 flowers per scape, the first one of mine has 4 and 6 and a third scape is still growing; all the other bulbs have 2 or 3 scape emerging too. But the shape of flowers is different and they don't have those two wide tepals as shown on the photos on those books and from photos of all US folks, but they look rather like the cybister hybrid 'Lima'. On the other hand, this hybrid isn't thought to be so vigorous, according on V.Read. I wonder if it is the true species or an hybrid now. The seller is a reputable source and the bulbs where extra large (28cm+ girt) and they also listed 'Lima' among the hybrids, but papilio was listed separately. Last year I got a papilio and 'Lima' from an Italian retail company, but I thought I had mixed the labels when I saw this flower. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Hippeastrum_papilio_Italy.jpg Oh, BTW this photo was taken when the flowers were already fading, but they weren't much wider than shown. I don't think the Dutch company has supplied a mislabelled batch of bulbs, as the bulbs where well labelled and packed. Maybe European strains are different from US's ones? best regards Angelo From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Wed Apr 14 09:08:20 2004 Message-Id: <000701c42221$09c6b8a0$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Hippeastrum papilio confusion Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:04:35 -0400 Papilio has few flowers. what you are describing could be a papilio x cybister or neoleololpii x cybister. Papilios are whitish green w/ burgundy. These hybrids have some cream color in them. BTW papilio x cybister hybrids grow well for me here in St. Pete, FL! Kevin Preuss www.Amaryllis-Plus.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angelo Porcelli" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 8:53 AM Subject: [pbs] Hippeastrum papilio confusion Dear group, I have some H.papilio, a Dutch strain, which are blooming now. While I read on Thad Howard's and the recent Veronica Read's books this species carries 2-3 flowers per scape, the first one of mine has 4 and 6 and a third scape is still growing; all the other bulbs have 2 or 3 scape emerging too. But the shape of flowers is different and they don't have those two wide tepals as shown on the photos on those books and from photos of all US folks, but they look rather like the cybister hybrid 'Lima'. On the other hand, this hybrid isn't thought to be so vigorous, according on V.Read. I wonder if it is the true species or an hybrid now. The seller is a reputable source and the bulbs where extra large (28cm+ girt) and they also listed 'Lima' among the hybrids, but papilio was listed separately. Last year I got a papilio and 'Lima' from an Italian retail company, but I thought I had mixed the labels when I saw this flower. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Hippeastrum_papilio_Italy.jpg Oh, BTW this photo was taken when the flowers were already fading, but they weren't much wider than shown. I don't think the Dutch company has supplied a mislabelled batch of bulbs, as the bulbs where well labelled and packed. Maybe European strains are different from US's ones? best regards Angelo _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From DaveKarn@aol.com Wed Apr 14 09:21:21 2004 Message-Id: <67.267d8417.2dae94cb@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: REPLY: [pbs] Narcissus 'Quince' Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:21:15 EDT In a message dated 13-Apr-04 4:44:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, totototo@pacificcoast.net writes: > Does anyone know of a source for healthy 'Quince'? It's a nice plant that > I'd like to enjoy for more than one year. > All daffodils in commerce are infected with one, or more, of the viruses known to infect the genus Narcissus. For most people, this is irrelevant, whether in a garden setting or forced for Winter bloom. For others, however, concern ranges from "some" to anathema! See THE DAFFODIL JOURNAL, March 2004, for an article on the incidence of virus in the genus Narcissus. Often, as in the case of the virused 'Quince' Rodger mentioned, the infection can be severe. And, as with all viruses, there is no cure and the best thing to do is dump the bulbs into the trash. The narcissus yellow stripe virus is a potyvirus and, as such, the most virulent type and one easily spread by mechanical means, e.g., cutting a daffodil stem or bulb with a knife not sterilized between cuts, etc. Meristem culture has, on occasion, been employed to "clean-up" some of the older clones hopelessly infected. It has been done for economic reasons, e.g., the clone Grand Soleil d'Or long grown for "cut" flowers in England is one such. 'Tete-a-Tete' and 'Jumblie' or 'Quince' might also be good candidates for the process. These three daffodils, particularly the former, make really fine pot plants and millions are grown for that purpose each year. While I would dearly love to make a cross similar to the one that produced these three daffodils, the parent plant, 'Cyclataz,' is impossible to find. Dave Karnstedt Silverton, Oregon, USA Cool Mediterranean climate; USDA Zone 7-8 From DaveKarn@aol.com Wed Apr 14 09:53:31 2004 Message-Id: <1a2.22d19af0.2dae9c51@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: REPLY: [pbs] Fragrances that Surprise--TOW Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:53:21 EDT In a message dated 13-Apr-04 11:46:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk writes: > I have no objection to the stinks of aroids and frits, but what I really > hate is the scent of lilies and hyacinths. A bed of trumpet or oriental > lilies pumping out their sickly pong pollutes the air about it, and I have > to leave - much though I admire the plants and their flowers. John ~ Fragrance is a funny thing, to say the least! What is fragrant to one, can be nauseating to another. Then there are folks who can't smell anything! I grow a great many lilies (and specialize in L. martagon and hybrids; to my nose, they have a musky and unpleasant fragrance that others find appealing), and, while I find most lily fragrance wonderful on a warm afternoon, true, it can be overwhelming if from a large bouquet in a closed room. I just cut fewer flowers and often put the vase outside overnight where it is cooler; makes the flowers last longer along with cutting the fragrance load indoors! However, I must say that I find your dislike of the fragrance of hyacinth to be unusually severe. To my nose, the fragrance of hyacinth represents the very essence of Spring!! I couldn't have a garden without waves of hyacinth. I will often sit near them just to inhale deeply of that fragrance distilling itself on the edying currents of air. I do have to say, however, get the fragrance when the flowers are fresh because, like a good brie when mature, the odor deterioates to intolerable as the flowers fade. Many daffodils with jonquilla, tazetta or poeticus heritage can be intensely fragrant. It's not common to find appealing fragrance in the large hybrids (to my nose, they often have a sharp and acrid stink!). There is one, however, that I would recommend to anyone with an interest in this flower: 'Fragrant Rose.' Like it's namesake, this white with rose-pink corona daffodil has a light and appealing tea rose fragrance. Many can readily detect the aroma but for others, alas, they perceive nothing. Dave Karnstedt Silverton, Oregon, USA Cool Mediterranean climate; USDA Zone 7-8 From msittner@mcn.org Wed Apr 14 10:25:15 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040413221217.01931790@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Fragrances that Surprise--TOW Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:18:14 -0700 Dear All, Has anyone thought why some plants of the same species are fragrant and some are not? The logical answer I assume would have to do with pollinators. If there weren't a lot of pollinators would they need to be more fragrant? Jane mentioned a couple of South African bulbs known for their fragrance. My Gladiolus tristis never seems very fragrant to me. I make it a point to go outside at night to smell it and I find it very subtle. So either I can't smell it or the ones I have aren't fragrant. I have grown Hesperantha cucullata from about five different sources. In case anyone is wondering why in the world I would do that, most of the seed was masquerading under a different name. All but one of them are very fragrant at night, especially in the dark (light seems to diminish the fragrance). Sometimes the fragrance can be overpowering. On the other hand one of the populations has no fragrance. This is the only one that opens early, often early afternoon. All the others open late in the day, almost at dusk and are pollinated by moths. The one that opens in the afternoon would be easily seen by other pollinators and always has seed if I don't deadhead. So perhaps it doesn't need to be fragrant. My fragrance that is surprising is Ferraria crispa. The latest revision, "The African genus Ferraria", describes it as having an "unpleasant putrid odour". My plants that I thought were F. uncinata since that was what they came as have a delightful smell of vanilla. Since F. uncinata is supposed to have a pleasant smell and one of my books had a picture that looked kind of like my plants, I didn't struggle through the key to verify what it was. But Julian Slade put me on the right track. The yellow one, F. crispa ssp. nortierii, is blooming right now and I put my nose up to it this week and thought there was only a faint fragrance and it was definitely not unpleasant to my nose. Mary Sue From c-mueller@tamu.edu Wed Apr 14 10:50:47 2004 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: Papilio 'improved'? Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:50:30 -0500 There is a cultivar in circulation known as 'Papilio Improved' which looks very like the spidery cybister hybrids. I have viewed it lately on the Scheepers website, I believe. It's under the "Royal Dutch Hybrid Miniature" section, not in the novelty cybister-bred portion of the website. At first when I saw reference to 'Papilio Improved' I thought that meant it would bloom more readily or stay open longer. Now I see that it looks very, very different from Papilio. Cynthia Mueller From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Apr 14 16:50:41 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Peonies! Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:10:04 -0500 Dear All; At the home stretch of departure, but will follow through when I return. Fully a third of the peony species are 'Mediterranean' and I'll rant about the need for more growers of these species that are challenging elsewhere. Glad to see the wiki page begun. Thanks for your kind words. Hope to catch up on all messages when I return. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Apr 14 21:37:32 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040414092853.017e5d68@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: REPLY: [pbs] Fragrances that Surprise--TOW Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:41:35 -0700 Many flowers, including hyacinths, the Oriental and trumpet lilies and hyacinths mentioned by John Grimshaw, and the tazetta narcissi mentioned by Dave Karnstedt, have fragrances that are unpleasant in a warm room but much more tolerable outdoors on a cool spring day or summer evening. One also thinks of shrub flowers such as Hamamelis and jasmine, and I wouldn't bring in my beloved Acer cissifolium's flowers, either. A few years ago I was sold an Azara (not the commonly grown one) as a desirable fragrance plant, but one day in the house when it was blooming, and it was banished. I don't know whether it is the concentration of the scent that makes it unpleasing to many people, or whether different aromatic compounds are released at different temperatures. It may also depend on the age of the flowers -- the scent of many seems to deteriorate after a day or two indoors. Regarding Narcissus tazetta, different subspecies and cultivars have quite different fragrances. I like to have certain paperwhites in the house, but not others. N. tazetta subsp. panizzianus, which is hardy in my garden, has a very good fragrance, as does an Italian wild form of the bicolored subsp. tazetta that I grew from seed. What smells we like are as different as what tastes we like. This may be due in part to memory and in part to individual sensitivity, like the hypersensitivity of about a quarter of individuals to bitter taste (I'm among them and can't stand tannic wines, hoppy beers, and bitter greens). I can't bear artificial musk elements in perfumes, but some women wear nothing else, and these elements are prominent in many men's colognes. Some people dislike the smell of dogs, even clean ones; for my part I dislike the smell of cats, not just their leavings but their carefully cleaned fur too -- and this may be memory and habituation. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA At 09:53 AM 4/14/2004 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 13-Apr-04 11:46:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk writes: > > > I have no objection to the stinks of aroids and frits, but what I really > > hate is the scent of lilies and hyacinths. A bed of trumpet or oriental > > lilies pumping out their sickly pong pollutes the air about it, and I have > > to leave - much though I admire the plants and their flowers. > >John ~ > >Fragrance is a funny thing, to say the least! What is fragrant to one, can >be nauseating to another. Then there are folks who can't smell anything! I >grow a great many lilies (and specialize in L. martagon and hybrids; to my >nose, >they have a musky and unpleasant fragrance that others find appealing), and, >while I find most lily fragrance wonderful on a warm afternoon, true, it can >be overwhelming if from a large bouquet in a closed room. I just cut fewer >flowers and often put the vase outside overnight where it is cooler; makes >the >flowers last longer along with cutting the fragrance load indoors! > >However, I must say that I find your dislike of the fragrance of hyacinth to >be unusually severe. To my nose, the fragrance of hyacinth represents the >very essence of Spring!! I couldn't have a garden without waves of >hyacinth. I >will often sit near them just to inhale deeply of that fragrance distilling >itself on the edying currents of air. I do have to say, however, get the >fragrance when the flowers are fresh because, like a good brie when >mature, the odor >deterioates to intolerable as the flowers fade. > >Many daffodils with jonquilla, tazetta or poeticus heritage can be intensely >fragrant. It's not common to find appealing fragrance in the large hybrids >(to my nose, they often have a sharp and acrid stink!). There is one, >however, >that I would recommend to anyone with an interest in this flower: 'Fragrant >Rose.' Like it's namesake, this white with rose-pink corona daffodil has a >light and appealing tea rose fragrance. Many can readily detect the aroma >but >for others, alas, they perceive nothing. > >Dave Karnstedt >Silverton, Oregon, USA >Cool Mediterranean climate; USDA Zone 7-8 > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From miaam@ars-grin.gov Wed Apr 14 12:43:45 2004 Message-Id: <001201c4223f$a76a6bb0$6401a8c0@eucharis> From: "Nolo Contendre" Subject: Fragrance Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:43:45 -0400 "The colonies in North Africa were of the type that allowed the gene to surface and were thus fragrant. " John - this still isn't a reason to counter pollinator selection pressure in North Africa for fragrance. Or do you not believe in natural selection? Alan Meerow ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bryan" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 12:47 PM Subject: [pbs] Fragrance > Dear All; > > Mary Sue posed a question regarding fragrance in some plants in the same > species having fragrance and others of the same species not having any > fragrance. > > I do not think this has anything to do with pollinators, rather > geographic variation. I remember discussing this with Professor > Doorenbos in Wagening, The Netherlands, back in 1956, when I was living > and studying in The Netherlands. He told me that Cyclamen hederifolium > from North Africa had a distinct fragrance, while others from other > regions of the Mediterranean did not. His opinion was that the gene > carrying the fragrance character was present in all of the species but > recessive. The colonies in North Africa were of the type that allowed > the gene to surface and were thus fragrant. No doubt other colonies with > fragrant flowers were to be found in isolated pockets within the natural > range of the plants, but all from North Africa were fragrant. This seems > to me to be a logical reason. If it were due to pollinators the > variations and ability to adapt to a particular habitat would mean that > even greater variances in fragrance would be apparent. Cheers, John E. > Bryan > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 14 12:21:24 2004 Message-Id: <407D6B2E.AFE7ABDD@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Fragrance Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:47:42 -0700 Dear All; Mary Sue posed a question regarding fragrance in some plants in the same species having fragrance and others of the same species not having any fragrance. I do not think this has anything to do with pollinators, rather geographic variation. I remember discussing this with Professor Doorenbos in Wagening, The Netherlands, back in 1956, when I was living and studying in The Netherlands. He told me that Cyclamen hederifolium from North Africa had a distinct fragrance, while others from other regions of the Mediterranean did not. His opinion was that the gene carrying the fragrance character was present in all of the species but recessive. The colonies in North Africa were of the type that allowed the gene to surface and were thus fragrant. No doubt other colonies with fragrant flowers were to be found in isolated pockets within the natural range of the plants, but all from North Africa were fragrant. This seems to me to be a logical reason. If it were due to pollinators the variations and ability to adapt to a particular habitat would mean that even greater variances in fragrance would be apparent. Cheers, John E. Bryan From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 14 12:51:50 2004 Message-Id: <407D7249.5907E11A@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Hippeastrum papilio Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:18:01 -0700 Dear all: In a recent posting, Angelo Porcelli posted a picture of H. papilio. I agree with Kevin Preuss that the picture is not H. papilio. The petals are not as wide, and it is my opinion that the upper 3 petals of H. papilio are burgundy with an edging of greenish white, the lower 3 are white with a hint of burgundy. The reverse of the upper petals have a distinct margin of green which is well defined. Plate 645 of my book shows a grand planting at the Huntington Botanic Garden. Many scapes are shown, but it must be remembered this planting was of a considerable age. I think that Angelo had indeed mixed the labels. Has anyone seen this species in the wild and have a photograph of it? It would be interesting to see. By the way, Timber Press still have copies of my book for sale!! Cheers, John E. Bryan From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 14 13:06:46 2004 Message-Id: <407D75CE.BED6658F@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Fragrances that Surprise--TOW Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:33:02 -0700 Dear John: Removing the pollen I call "the gelding of the lily!" Cheers, John E. Bryan johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk wrote: > > I place great value on fragrance in flowers, and take the trouble to have a > sniff at most things. So many spring flowers are beautifully scented: the > perfume on entering an RHS show in February or March is quite wonderful. > Warmth, however is often needed to release it, hence the failure to notice > it in the garden. > > I have no objection to the stinks of aroids and frits, but what I really > hate is the scent of lilies and hyacinths. A bed of trumpet or oriental > lilies pumping out their sickly pong pollutes the air about it, and I have > to leave - much though I admire the plants and their flowers. I once got a > pew at a wedding immediately adjacent to a great mass of lilies and was > poisoned throughout the service. As Shakespeare said: 'Lilies that fester > smell far worse than weeds.' Lilium candidum is an honourable exception. > > While on a rant about lilies, I object very strongly to the florists' trick > of emasculating the flowers, to prevent the pollen staining. The intention > is admirable, perhaps, but it removes the beauty of the flower - that circle > of six orange anthers poised above the segments give the flower life and > beauty, lost when they are removed. > > John Grimshaw > > Dr John M. Grimshaw > Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens > > Gardens Cottage > Colesbourne > Nr Cheltenham > Gloucestershire GL53 9NP > > Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 14 13:15:53 2004 Message-Id: <407D77F3.361BE1C2@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Fragrance Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:42:11 -0700 Alan; What do you understand "natural selection" to mean? How do you relate this to fragrance? Cheers, John E. Bryan Nolo Contendre wrote: > > "The colonies in North Africa were of the type that allowed > the gene to surface and were thus fragrant. " > > John - this still isn't a reason to counter pollinator selection pressure in > North Africa for fragrance. Or do you not believe in natural selection? > > Alan Meerow > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bryan" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 12:47 PM > Subject: [pbs] Fragrance > > > Dear All; > > > > Mary Sue posed a question regarding fragrance in some plants in the same > > species having fragrance and others of the same species not having any > > fragrance. > > > > I do not think this has anything to do with pollinators, rather > > geographic variation. I remember discussing this with Professor > > Doorenbos in Wagening, The Netherlands, back in 1956, when I was living > > and studying in The Netherlands. He told me that Cyclamen hederifolium > > from North Africa had a distinct fragrance, while others from other > > regions of the Mediterranean did not. His opinion was that the gene > > carrying the fragrance character was present in all of the species but > > recessive. The colonies in North Africa were of the type that allowed > > the gene to surface and were thus fragrant. No doubt other colonies with > > fragrant flowers were to be found in isolated pockets within the natural > > range of the plants, but all from North Africa were fragrant. This seems > > to me to be a logical reason. If it were due to pollinators the > > variations and ability to adapt to a particular habitat would mean that > > even greater variances in fragrance would be apparent. Cheers, John E. > > Bryan > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From miaam@ars-grin.gov Wed Apr 14 14:30:34 2004 Message-Id: <002701c4224e$938d7010$6401a8c0@eucharis> From: "Nolo Contendre" Subject: Fragrance Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:30:34 -0400 John, If a recessive allele becomes fixed in a population it is usually not a random event - something is exerting selection pressure that gives the plants with the recessive allele some reproductive advantage so that they set more seed than those without it. In the case of floral characters such as fragrance, that is almost always pollinator mediated selection. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bryan" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Fragrance > Alan; > What do you understand "natural selection" to mean? How do you relate > this to fragrance? Cheers, John E. Bryan > > Nolo Contendre wrote: > > > > "The colonies in North Africa were of the type that allowed > > the gene to surface and were thus fragrant. " > > > > John - this still isn't a reason to counter pollinator selection pressure in > > North Africa for fragrance. Or do you not believe in natural selection? > > > > Alan Meerow > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Bryan" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 12:47 PM > > Subject: [pbs] Fragrance > > > > > Dear All; > > > > > > Mary Sue posed a question regarding fragrance in some plants in the same > > > species having fragrance and others of the same species not having any > > > fragrance. > > > > > > I do not think this has anything to do with pollinators, rather > > > geographic variation. I remember discussing this with Professor > > > Doorenbos in Wagening, The Netherlands, back in 1956, when I was living > > > and studying in The Netherlands. He told me that Cyclamen hederifolium > > > from North Africa had a distinct fragrance, while others from other > > > regions of the Mediterranean did not. His opinion was that the gene > > > carrying the fragrance character was present in all of the species but > > > recessive. The colonies in North Africa were of the type that allowed > > > the gene to surface and were thus fragrant. No doubt other colonies with > > > fragrant flowers were to be found in isolated pockets within the natural > > > range of the plants, but all from North Africa were fragrant. This seems > > > to me to be a logical reason. If it were due to pollinators the > > > variations and ability to adapt to a particular habitat would mean that > > > even greater variances in fragrance would be apparent. Cheers, John E. > > > Bryan > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Wed Apr 14 17:16:15 2004 Message-Id: <006e01c42265$b6a03350$82e8403e@John> From: Subject: REPLY: [pbs] Fragrances that Surprise--TOW Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:10:56 +0100 Dave Karn wrote: > ....and, > while I find most lily fragrance wonderful on a warm afternoon, true, it can > be overwhelming if from a large bouquet in a closed room. I find it overwhelming in the open garden - in a room or a greenhouse it is intolerable. > > However, I must say that I find your dislike of the fragrance of hyacinth to > be unusually severe. To my nose, the fragrance of hyacinth represents the > very essence of Spring!! I couldn't have a garden without waves of hyacinth. I > will often sit near them just to inhale deeply of that fragrance distilling > itself on the edying currents of air. I do have to say, however, get the > fragrance when the flowers are fresh because, like a good brie when mature, the odor > deterioates to intolerable as the flowers fade. I restrained myself on the subject of hyacinth odour. I appreciate hyacinths in the garden display, and indeed have planted quite a few here at Colesbourne, but just walking along the path, nose nearly 6 feet above them, the smell was only too apparent. Fortunately, in cheese, the stronger and worse the smell, the better the flavour usually is. Forget the pussy-footed brie, try some of the red-rinded Belgian ones, with what can only be called (politely) a faecal odour, but heavenly flavour! There is an English one called Stinking Bishop, much the same. I must try Narcissus 'Fragrant Rose' - sounds delightful. There is a snowdrop, G. plicatus 'Ispahan' that smells of old roses, rather delightfully. For snowdrop fragrance 'S. Arnott' is hard to beat; on a warm February day the big patch here of some10,000 flowering plants wafts the perfume all around - a lovely heather honey scent. John Grimshaw From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Wed Apr 14 17:16:31 2004 Message-Id: <007001c42265$ba84e790$82e8403e@John> From: Subject: Fragrance Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:31:20 +0100 John Bryan's mention of Cyclamen fragrance deserves a comment. Firstly, the species in North Africa is C. africanum, distinct from, but similar to, C. hederifolium. In my experience it is not scented, but Grey-Wilson says 'occasionally fragrant.' It is true that some populations of C. hederifolium are scented, others not. So far as I can tell, the more westerly populations are not scented, and it is from these that most garden stock probably originated. Further east, C. hederifolium subsp. hederifolium from Turkey is usually scented. I cannot say whether it is scented in Greece or not - cannot remember. Subsp. confusum, however, from Sicily and southern Greece is as gloriously scented as any wild cyclamen. I recall a glorious day in the Mani Peninsular in early November when confusum was in full flower and the air full of its scent - pure heaven for me, with the cyclamen beneath the trees and the open ground carpeted with crocuses. A pot of subsp. confusum will fill a greenhouse with scent; alas, it seems to be slightly less hardy than the nominate subspecies, probably because it grows close to the sea on the Mediterranean shore. I cannot believe that the scent is anything other than adaptive to the pollinators available to the plant in the wild. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Gardens Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bryan" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 5:47 PM Subject: [pbs] Fragrance > Dear All; > > Mary Sue posed a question regarding fragrance in some plants in the same > species having fragrance and others of the same species not having any > fragrance. > > I do not think this has anything to do with pollinators, rather > geographic variation. I remember discussing this with Professor > Doorenbos in Wagening, The Netherlands, back in 1956, when I was living > and studying in The Netherlands. He told me that Cyclamen hederifolium > from North Africa had a distinct fragrance, while others from other > regions of the Mediterranean did not. His opinion was that the gene > carrying the fragrance character was present in all of the species but > recessive. The colonies in North Africa were of the type that allowed > the gene to surface and were thus fragrant. No doubt other colonies with > fragrant flowers were to be found in isolated pockets within the natural > range of the plants, but all from North Africa were fragrant. This seems > to me to be a logical reason. If it were due to pollinators the > variations and ability to adapt to a particular habitat would mean that > even greater variances in fragrance would be apparent. Cheers, John E. > Bryan > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From jshields104@insightbb.com Wed Apr 14 16:42:11 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040414153322.02370a18@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Narcissus 'Quince' Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:42:02 -0500 Another way of cleaning up virus infected bulbs is by heat treatment. It undoubtedly varies by bulb species and pest species, but 55 C for an hour is perhaps close to what you can do. Rather than discard valuable but virus infected bulbs, try heat treating them first. I don't know, does heat also kill mycoplasma? Jim Shields At 01:11 PM 4/14/2004 -0800, you wrote: >On 13 Apr 04 at 20:18, Arnold Trachtenberg wrote: > > > Rodger: > > > > Nancy Wilson has Quince. > > > > http://www.asis.com/~nwilson/index.html > >But is it virus- and nematode-free? I suspect that 'Quince' is one of >those cultivars where all the commercial stock is diseased; >'Tete-a-Tete' is another such. I'm hoping that someone out there >has clean stock of 'Quince' or has run some through meristem culture >to clean it up. > >-- >Rodger Whitlock >Victoria, British Columbia, Canada >Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From lizwat@earthlink.net Wed Apr 14 17:09:41 2004 Message-Id: <407DA890.3020500@earthlink.net> From: Liz Waterman Subject: virus clean up bulbs Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:09:36 -0700 Another way of cleaning up virus infected bulbs is by heat treatment. It undoubtedly varies by bulb species and pest species, but 55 C for an hour is perhaps close to what you can do. Rather than discard valuable but virus infected bulbs, try heat treating them first. I don't know, does heat also kill mycoplasma? Jim Shields > >But is it virus- and nematode-free? I suspect that 'Quince' is one of >those cultivars where all the commercial stock is diseased; >'Tete-a-Tete' is another such. I'm hoping that someone out there >has clean stock of 'Quince' or has run some through meristem culture >to clean it up. > ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From lizwat@earthlink.net Wed Apr 14 17:11:51 2004 Message-Id: <407DA91F.5030508@earthlink.net> From: Liz Waterman Subject: virus clean up bulbs delete Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:11:59 -0700 Sorry, I meant just to edit it for my self not to send it on. Liz > From msittner@mcn.org Thu Apr 15 10:36:45 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040409204106.00b5fe90@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Recent Images on the Wiki--Moraea Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:42:54 -0700 Dear All, Here are some pictures of Moraea flowers that have bloomed in the March and April. In the Moraea group I had blooming Moraea bipartita. This is a really nice one that Lauw gave me twice. I've had trouble keeping it going and expect there is something about my climate that isn't exactly what it wants. I thought I had lost it again when I saw a stalk of blue-violet flowers blooming near my deer fence late one day and went over to take a closer look and was really happy to see it. I tried taking a picture of the stalk of flowers since there were so many, but it didn't turn out as well as looking down on the flowers. I'm not sure how it got there, but hope it returns. In the Gynandriris subgroup I added a picture of Moraea setifolia which has been blooming really well this year. I used to grow this one in a two inch pot and take it with me so I would see it bloom when it opened at 1 p.m. How it managed to grow in that little pot is a mystery to me, but I didn't know very much about growing bulbs at that point. Early afternoon you look at this plant and may catch the sign of flowers to come, but it doesn't look very inspiring, and then later you pass it and it is covered with intricate small amazing flowers. Three different pots were in bloom one day last week, but the picture I added was taken weeks ago. Last year we added a close-up of the flower and this year my picture shows it branching with a number of blooms. I was finally able to get a picture of Moraea cedarmontana (also in the Gynandriris subgroup.) I've had this one for a number of years, but often miss it. It has small white flowers that don't open until very late in the day and if you didn't see it was going to bloom that day and then remind yourself to go look later, the next day is too late. That happened to me when it bloomed the first time, but I was able to stay focused the second time and kept moving it to the sun as different areas of my garden got shaded and finally about 4 p.m. I got to see it. It is supposed to be fragrant, but I couldn't smell anything. Finally this year my Moraea marlothii finally bloomed. This one is in the Homeria subgroup. I had grown it from seed and was trying to grow it in a pot until I saw it in the ground at my friend Jana's and realized I needed to plant it out. It has a very long and wide single leaf. I have one picture of it in the garden and then put something behind it so I could focus on the flower too. It is most unusual I think. I know Paul Tyerman grows it in Australia. You can access all these pictures through the Moraea wiki page, but you will have to click on the Gynandriris and Homeria pages to see those pictures. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Moraea Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From Blee811@aol.com Wed Apr 14 18:45:52 2004 Message-Id: <15a.3274db76.2daf1918@aol.com> From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: Narcissus 'Fragrant Rose' Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:45:44 EDT In a message dated 4/14/2004 5:16:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk writes: > I must try Narcissus 'Fragrant Rose' - sounds delightful. Also try 'Scented Breeze', a sibling of 'Fragrant Rose' from the same hybridizer, Brian Duncan, and also with a delightful fragrance. As far as I know, you can only get 'Scented Breeze' from Ringhaddy Daffodils in Northern Ireland; 'Fragrant Rose' is available from other sources. Bill Lee From wlp@Radar-Sci.Jpl.Nasa.Gov Wed Apr 14 20:06:03 2004 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Papilio 'improved'? Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:05:56 -0700 I ordered one of these from Scheepers a few years ago, because I also thought it looked kind of like a cybister x papilio cross. When it finally bloomed, it looked exactly like H. papilio. It has proven to be very vigorous and blooms with multiple stalks. (This year my one-gallon pot has four scapes so far.) And the flowers last longer than my ordinary papilios. Either I got a straight papilio that was mislabeled or could I have gotten an F2 that happens to appear just like the papilio parent only more vigorous? It doesn't look anything like the picture in the catalog. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 On Apr 14, 2004, at 7:50 AM, Cynthia Mueller wrote: > There is a cultivar in circulation known as 'Papilio Improved' which > looks very like the spidery cybister hybrids. I have viewed it lately > on the Scheepers website, I believe. > At first when I saw reference to 'Papilio Improved' I thought that > meant it would bloom more readily or stay open longer. Now I see that > it looks very, very different from Papilio. > > Cynthia Mueller From valden@vectis52.freeserve.co.uk Thu Apr 15 01:42:27 2004 Message-Id: <000b01c422ac$64eadf50$9d7c883e@deny471g8xq1jy> From: "Den Wilson" Subject: Fragrances that Surprise--TOW Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:41:26 +0100 John, <> Pardon? How about a hyacinth on the kitchen table on New Years day? Or how about Lilium wardii or parryi or kelloggii or rubescens or cernuum or langkongense or......? I think they smell fantastic. If you want to pick on the unfortunates of the lily world try L. pyrenaicum; a real nose-crinkler if you get too close. The strongest scent in my garden is undoubtably a Crinum yemenense from David Fenwick. I like it but some say it is too powerful. I say stand farther back. Cheers. Den Wilson Isle of Wight UK. Zone 8 (maritime) almost frost-free. From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Thu Apr 15 02:55:15 2004 Message-Id: <004f01c422b6$9a170a50$4cec403e@John> From: Subject: Fragrances that Surprise--TOW Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:01:07 +0100 From: "Den Wilson" > John, > > <> > > Pardon? > > How about a hyacinth on the kitchen table on New Years day? A particular bete noire! Or how about > Lilium wardii or parryi or kelloggii or rubescens or cernuum or langkongense > or......? Wish I had the plants to sniff! John Grimshaw> From blweintraub1@earthlink.net Thu Apr 15 04:08:25 2004 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20040415020416.01dbc598@earthlink.net> From: Barbara Weintraub Subject: erythronium DNA Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:06:05 -0600 What I believe is the southernmost population of E. grandiflorum flowers when the snow melts in June or so at 10,000 ft. Collecting a leaf should be easy enough. Remind me in about 8 weeks. At 05:30 AM 4/14/2004, you wrote: >Those that are missing are : Erythronium >grandiflorum, klamathense, mesochoreum, pluriflorum, propullans, >purpurascens, pusaterii, rostratum, quinaultense, taylori and >maybe a few others. I will be most gratefull for anybody who can >supply me with a single fresh leaf of any of the above. Thanks - Barbara Leaf and Stone Barbara L. Weintraub 20 Estambre Road Santa Fe, NM 87508-8769 blweintraub1@earthlink.net From miaam@ars-grin.gov Thu Apr 15 07:12:54 2004 Message-Id: <00e301c422dc$05540b40$344285c7@SHRS.APHIS.USDA.GOV> From: "Alan Meerow" Subject: Fragrances tha Surprise - TOW Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:23:04 -0400 I agree, Rhoda. Tulbahgia simmleri is an absolutely oustanding subject, with a long season of bloom and fragrance to boot. And no foliar garlic odor! The flowers range from white to pink and lavender shades. I will be sending seed to the IBS BX soon. Alan ----------------------------- Alan W. Meerow, Ph.D., Research Geneticist and Systematist USDA-ARS-SHRS, National Germplasm Repository 13601 Old Cutler Road, Miami, FL 33158 USA voice: (305) 254-3635 fax: (305) 969-6410 email: miaam@ars-grin.gov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron McMaster" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 3:35 PM Subject: [pbs] Fragrances tha Surprise - TOW > Tulbaghia acutiloba will always be on my 'must have' list. My first encounter with it was late one afternoon when I couldn't figure out which one of my plants was emitting such a beautiful strong scent, almost like cinnamon. What a surprise when it turned out to be the insignificant flower of an onion family! It has a scent only after about 4 pm for a couple of hours. Another good one is Tulbaghia simmleri (used to be T. fragrans). > > Rhoda > Napier, W. Cape > Blooming now in the wild (Renosterbos) around Napier: Haemanthus coccineus, Nerine humilis, Gladiolus vaginatus, Tritoniopsis pulchra, Brunsvigia orientalis (just over) and an Oxalis sp. > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From msittner@mcn.org Thu Apr 15 10:36:52 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040415072955.01919de0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Virus treatment Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:34:48 -0700 Dear All, Jim Shield's said this week: "Another way of cleaning up virus infected bulbs is by heat treatment. It undoubtedly varies by bulb species and pest species, but 55 C for an hour is perhaps close to what you can do. Rather than discard valuable but virus infected bulbs, try heat treating them first." We have discussed virus many times on this list and the consensus always seemed to be that throwing out virused material was the only way to go. Can you give us more particulars about this new information? Who has done it, were the bulbs tested before and after, do you put them in an oven, etc.? Is the evidence anecdotal (like with aspirin which has been suggested as a treatment in the past) or have there been careful scientific experiments? I am sure we'd all like to know more. Mary Sue From jshields104@insightbb.com Thu Apr 15 11:05:47 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040415095733.021722e0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Virus treatment Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:05:24 -0500 Hi everyone, I cannot cite any scientific literature. I've heard of this for years, but Alberto told me last year that the university group where he is can do this. Alberto Castillo's group may be the only lab currently doing this. Timing and temperature are said to be critical -- too little heat or too short a time and the pathogen survives. Too high a temperature or too long a time and the bulb does not survive. I tried it 25 years ago on virused Hippeastrum bulbs, and did not kill either the viruses nor the bulbs. I used a water bath, hand-regulated on the kitchen stove. I also was trying 45 C, but Alberto has since told me that it needs to be 55 C. The temperature also needs to be automatically regulated, not by hand. I would guess that a temperature sensing probe stuck into the heart of the bulb would help, since the core has to reach the target temperature and then be held there. Sorry I cannot give more precise information. I am still personally inclined to discard any virused plants. Jim Shields At 07:34 AM 4/15/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Dear All, > >Jim Shield's said this week: >"Another way of cleaning up virus infected bulbs is by heat treatment. It >undoubtedly varies by bulb species and pest species, but 55 C for an hour >is perhaps close to what you can do. Rather than discard valuable but >virus infected bulbs, try heat treating them first." > >We have discussed virus many times on this list and the consensus always >seemed to be that throwing out virused material was the only way to go. >Can you give us more particulars about this new information? Who has done >it, were the bulbs tested before and after, do you put them in an oven, >etc.? Is the evidence anecdotal (like with aspirin which has been >suggested as a treatment in the past) or have there been careful >scientific experiments? I am sure we'd all like to know more. > >Mary Sue > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Thu Apr 15 11:25:16 2004 Message-Id: <407EAF70.AAF73D8E@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Papilio 'improved'? Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:51:12 -0700 dear lee: As you live in Pasadena, nip over to the Huntigton and check out their planting of papilio. It would be good to hear your comments. Cheers, John E. Bryan Lee Poulsen wrote: > > I ordered one of these from Scheepers a few years ago, because I also > thought it looked kind of like a cybister x papilio cross. When it > finally bloomed, it looked exactly like H. papilio. It has proven to be > very vigorous and blooms with multiple stalks. (This year my one-gallon > pot has four scapes so far.) And the flowers last longer than my > ordinary papilios. Either I got a straight papilio that was mislabeled > or could I have gotten an F2 that happens to appear just like the > papilio parent only more vigorous? It doesn't look anything like the > picture in the catalog. > > --Lee Poulsen > Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 > > On Apr 14, 2004, at 7:50 AM, Cynthia Mueller wrote: > > There is a cultivar in circulation known as 'Papilio Improved' which > > looks very like the spidery cybister hybrids. I have viewed it lately > > on the Scheepers website, I believe. > > > At first when I saw reference to 'Papilio Improved' I thought that > > meant it would bloom more readily or stay open longer. Now I see that > > it looks very, very different from Papilio. > > > > Cynthia Mueller > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Pat.Colville@jameshardie.com Thu Apr 15 12:03:45 2004 Message-Id: From: "Pat Colville" Subject: Papilio 'improved'? Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:00:05 -0700 I ordered the same bulb from the same source and got just about the same results as Lee. It seems to be a regular H. Papilio just somewhat shorter than the rest I have. It multiplies nicely. Pat Colville Subject: Re: [pbs] Papilio 'improved'? "I ordered one of these from Scheepers a few years ago, because I also thought it looked kind of like a cybister x papilio cross. When it finally bloomed, it looked exactly like H. papilio. It has proven to be very vigorous and blooms with multiple stalks. (This year my one-gallon pot has four scapes so far.) And the flowers last longer than my ordinary papilios. Either I got a straight papilio that was mislabeled or could I have gotten an F2 that happens to appear just like the papilio parent only more vigorous? It doesn't look anything like the picture in the catalog " --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 On Apr 14, 2004, at 7:50 AM, Cynthia Mueller wrote: > There is a cultivar in circulation known as 'Papilio Improved' which > looks very like the spidery cybister hybrids. I have viewed it lately > on the Scheepers website, I believe. > At first when I saw reference to 'Papilio Improved' I thought that > meant it would bloom more readily or stay open longer. Now I see that > it looks very, very different from Papilio. > > Cynthia Mueller _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From DaveKarn@aol.com Thu Apr 15 12:45:47 2004 Message-Id: <10f.2e9ee518.2db01637@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: REPLY2: [pbs] Narcissus 'Quince' Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:45:43 EDT In a message dated 14-Apr-04 1:42:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jshields104@insightbb.com writes: > Another way of cleaning up virus infected bulbs is by heat treatment. It > undoubtedly varies by bulb species and pest species, but 55 C for an hour > is perhaps close to what you can do. Rather than discard valuable but > virus infected bulbs, try heat treating them first. > > I don't know, does heat also kill mycoplasma? > Jim ~ This is a concept rather widely believed. While it may be true in genera other than Narcissus, I stand by my statement that a plant, once infected with virus, is best destroyed or kept isolated. I still isolate many narcissus thinking I would use them for their genetic material. Now, however, I am questioning even that practice since there is evidence that daffodil viruses can be seed transmitted. I think it fair to say that all clonally propagated plants will, sooner or later, contract one (or more) of the viruses known to infect their genus. Bear in mind, there is no guarantee that virus spores won't survive any form of heat treatment only to re-infect when conditions are appropriate (the propagule must continually be ELSA tested for any degree of certainty). In heat treatment of Narcissus, at best, all one can hope for is a diminution of symptomology, not a "cure." I still stand by my belief that once infected, virus in a plant is incurable. On the other hand, what often happens as a result of heat treatment is that viral activity is diminished for a year, or two, leading to healthier appearing plants and to the belief that a cure has taken place. Heat treatment in the form of a circulating, hot water bath in an insulated tank kept at 114 deg F (45.6 C) for three hours is the recommended treatment for the occurrence of the bulb and stem nematode (Ditylenchus sp.), the absolutely worst event to befall a daffodil (or any tunicate bulb) grower! At this temperature range, there is a very fine line between curing the infestation and the death of the bulb! The colloquial name for such treatment is "cooking," and for sound reason! I have heard that there exists in Holland a heat resistant form of this nematode that has (most likely) arisen from sloppy heat treatment practices over the years. Woe to one who contracts this one!!! Over the years, the best advice I have heard, has been (and not entirely tongue-in-cheek) to sell the place and move and start over!! Formalin (formaldehyde) has long been the recommended additive to the hot water bath to combat fungus (e.g., fusarium) at the same time. In many places, this is now a restricted chemical, if even available any longer, even though this is a naturally occurring substance. There are some newer replacement chemicals that have come into the marketplace that have been shown effective against fusarium and the fungi infecting the outer scales of the bulb. Dave Karnstedt Cascade Daffodils Silverton, OR 97381-0237 email: davekarn@AOL.com From DaveKarn@aol.com Thu Apr 15 13:07:02 2004 Message-Id: <1c3.17b283a2.2db01b30@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: Reply: Off topic from the TOW Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:06:56 EDT In a message dated 14-Apr-04 2:16:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk writes: > Fortunately, in cheese, the stronger and worse the smell, the better the > flavour usually is. Forget the pussy-footed brie, try some of the red-rinded > Belgian ones, with what can only be called (politely) a faecal odour, but > heavenly flavour! There is an English one called Stinking Bishop, much the > same. > John ~ Yikes! My wife is a microbiologist and on a first-name basis with many a bug so we're rather restrained in our preferences for cheese. To my taster and smeller, a reasonably fresh, triple-creme brie on chunks of Bartlett pear or fresh sourdough comes close to Heaven with its delightful fresh butter taste. A good accompaniment would be a California chardonnay not been aged in oak. That your nose even allows your throat to function without freezing up at the very thought of "some of the red-rinded Belgian ones, with what can only be called (politely) a faecal odour" astounds me! Perhaps, with your "Stinking Bishop," an appropriate wine would be a vintage of our very own "Fat Bastard." Each to his own, say I! Must admit to a bit of curiosity, tho. If the fragrance of hyacinth is objectionable, what then about freesia, another strong (and to many people) delightful fragrance that, often, is difficult to get enough of? Dave Karnstedt Silverton, ORegon From DaveKarn@aol.com Thu Apr 15 13:23:02 2004 Message-Id: <15a.32879bda.2db01eed@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: REPLY2: [pbs] Fragrances that Surprise--TOW Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:22:53 EDT In a message dated 14-Apr-04 6:37:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, janemcgary@earthlink.net writes: > I like to have certain paperwhites in the house, but not others . . . > Jane, et all ~ I am growing and testing for possible introduction a Paper White hybrid (or selection), 'Miss Linda,' that does not possess (to my degree of detection) the objectionable muskiness of the standard Paper White. The fragrance is much lighter and rather pleasant, even indoors. It has another interesting trait, as well, as the main stems will carry upwards of 50-60 flowers! Each bulb will also produce multiple stems. Alas, it does have a downside, but only for those who aren't content until every wall in the house is papered over with ribbons, it has typical Paper White form and not the more refined form of the several, widely available Israeli hybrids. Dave Karnstedt Cascade Daffodils Silverton, ORegon From Jamievande@freenet.de Thu Apr 15 13:34:16 2004 Message-Id: <003d01c42310$c678a220$6502a8c0@Jamie2> From: "Jamie" Subject: Reply: Off topic from the TOW Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:40:42 +0200 Now, we are into some strange smelly thingies this week. Actually living in Europe, spitting distance from Belgium, I can attest to the strength of certain fromages and, being European, I love 'em (except this nasty stuff from Frankfurt, Germany! Not even old socks! More like rotted cardboard.) Anyway.... Bearded iris are astounding in their palette of fragrances. I never really took notice of them, until I brought them into the house. Then they compete with the most pungent of lilium. Some are spicey, some memories of roses, others lemoney and a few down right awful, as if the mixture just didn't work. Much like lilies, the scent is not often obvious in the garden, in closed quarters, it can become uncomfortable. I wonder if there is a component that causes a reaction in a home atmosphere? It is strange that the scent should become almost oppressive. We had a lovely day, today, warm and sunny. I noted many a fragrance, such as Viburnum, Mahonia and various Narcissus. Even a few of the Tulipa have nice fragrances. The Paeonies, when they are finally open, will certainly set the stage for a Geisha drama under the Japanese maples. Here is a note only appreciated by certain noses. Ciao, Jamie V. Cologne PS: saw a wonderful documentary on Roquefort. That blue mold is Penicillen roqueforteii! Who would have guessed? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 7:06 PM Subject: [pbs] Reply: Off topic from the TOW > In a message dated 14-Apr-04 2:16:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk writes: > > > Fortunately, in cheese, the stronger and worse the smell, the better the > > flavour usually is. Forget the pussy-footed brie, try some of the red-rinded > > Belgian ones, with what can only be called (politely) a faecal odour, but > > heavenly flavour! There is an English one called Stinking Bishop, much the > > same. > > > > John ~ > > Yikes! My wife is a microbiologist and on a first-name basis with many a bug > so we're rather restrained in our preferences for cheese. To my taster and > smeller, a reasonably fresh, triple-creme brie on chunks of Bartlett pear or > fresh sourdough comes close to Heaven with its delightful fresh butter taste. A > good accompaniment would be a California chardonnay not been aged in oak. > That your nose even allows your throat to function without freezing up at the > very thought of "some of the red-rinded Belgian ones, with what can only be > called (politely) a faecal odour" > astounds me! Perhaps, with your "Stinking Bishop," an appropriate wine would > be a vintage of our very own "Fat Bastard." > > Each to his own, say I! > > Must admit to a bit of curiosity, tho. If the fragrance of hyacinth is > objectionable, what then about freesia, another strong (and to many people) > delightful fragrance that, often, is difficult to get enough of? > > Dave Karnstedt > Silverton, ORegon > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Apr 15 14:03:02 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Off topic from the TOW Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:02:45 -0700 > I wonder if there is a >component that causes a reaction in a home atmosphere? When I buy ripe strawberries and put them in the car, they smell wonderful. If I then leave them in the car while I do more shopping, the car smells like garbage when I enter it again. In perhaps ten minutes, the delicious strawberry smell has concentrated itself enough to be disgusting. The strawberries themselves haven't changed, and when I take them into the house, they again smell delicious. Obviously, some component of their scent is pleasant only when dilute. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From hkoopowi@uci.edu Thu Apr 15 15:35:43 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.2.20040415123529.01ae5518@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: The Huntington Symposium Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:35:41 -0700 Hello to all the Clivia enthusiasts out there: Good News and Bad News: The Good news is that we will be holding the next Huntington Symposium at the world famous Huntington Botanic Gardens on the last weekend in March 2005. Bad news is that this falls on an Easter weekend. Sorry but the weekend prior is already taken by the Bonsai society and their show. Doing it earlier or later than those two weekends means missing the peak of the flowering season. The meeting will be sponsored by The Huntington, the North American Clivia Society and possibly one of the local Bulb Societies. We would like to hold a judged Clivia show and I invite judges from other regions of the world to come and judge here. At this time we are trying to guesstimate the number of attendees. 1. If you would like to present a paper or poster also let me know together with the title of your presentation. 2. If you plan on attending please also let me know and estimate the number in your party. 3. If you are prepared to judge the show let me know too. 4. If you want to reserve space to sell seeds or plants I need to know that also. email the above information back to me at the following address paph@pcmagic.net cheers Harold From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Thu Apr 15 16:21:12 2004 Message-Id: <1BEDLu-0BubMe0@fwd00.sul.t-online.com> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: TOW surprise in fragrant bulbs Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:20:50 +0200 Dear All, The last blooms of what I think is Ornithogalum suaveolens are about to fade (Or is it an Albuca? difficult to say) When I found the plants in the wild I hardly detected any scent same as now in my greenhouse but the friend with whom I travelled got very excited about what he described as a very poweful scent like the perfume 'Shalimar'. I have often noticed that some scents cannot be detected by certain people at all, especially the very powerful similar scents of Nicotiana sylvestris or Calonyction album. There may be other groups of volatile chemicals that cause scent that cannot be detected by certain people. I think it has to do with genetics but does anybody know better or more details about this? Spring at last in Germany, Uli From khixson@nu-world.com Thu Apr 15 17:50:32 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20040415145010.00854e84@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Virus treatment Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:50:10 -0700 Mary Sue, everyone >We have discussed virus many times on this list and the consensus always >seemed to be that throwing out virused material was the only way to go. When I was a student at Oregon State University (many years ago), one of the research projects was to heat treat material of Daphne odora, which is mostly heavily virus infected. Supposedly they had succeeded, or at least thought they'd succeeded, in getting rid of virus, though I've not heard any more about it. Also, many lilies are now micropropagated (tissue cultured) in an effort to rid them of virus. "Enchantment", discussed recently, is one cultivar which had ceased to be grown because of virus, was tissue cultured and re-released as virus free. Since lilies can be re-infected fairly quickly, it is hard to know how long a lily will remain virus free, even if it was "cleaned up". The following paragraph is from Judith Freeman's hand-out on tissue/ embryo culturing lilies; the entire article appeared in the NALS December 2001 QB. This has been handed out numerous times, both at classes sponsered by the NALS (North American Lily Society), and with the catalog from the Lilygarden. "How do we "clean up" a clone with tissue culture? "With very small explants, a hopeful heart, and repeated testing! The early theory was that the actual meristem, the little clump of rapidly-dividing cells within the shoot tip, had not been invaded by virus particles, so that we could remove it carefully and start a 'clean' plant from it. Unfortunately, it takes a bigger clump of cells than just the meristem to get a culture going. Different viruses replicate at different rates depending upon many factors, so that by making lots of starts from very small pieces, some of them will not contain enough virus particles to sustain the infection. A variety of interventions can help reduce the replication of virus particles of particular viruses in particular plants. Sometimes it takes a long, long time for a very low level of infection to build up to detectable levels, so that repeated ELISA tests are necessary to be sure that the mother stocks are really clean. At present, we can only test for viruses we have isolated, and if their protein coat changes, an ELISA test will be negative even if the viral RNA is there." This same process is possible with other plants, but is expensive--especially the repeated Elisa test to determine if the virus is present. I believe an ELISA virus test runs from $50 to $200 per test, depending on how many viruses are being tested for. Each type of plant requires slightly different hormone levels, etc, for tissue culture, so it takes experimentation for each new type of plant. I have seen plants offered of (supposedly) virus free Narcissus Peeping Tom and N. Tete-a-tee, but they don't stay virus free very long. However, the presumption is that there is some treatment available which at least strongly reduces the virus in these plants. Possibly the heat treatment already discussed? There are a lot of changes happening in this area, and new treatments will undoubtedly emerge in time. Ken Z 7 western Oregon From totototo@pacificcoast.net Mon Apr 12 17:32:26 2004 Message-Id: <200404122132.i3CLWKJb009744@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Fragrances that Surprise--TOW Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:34:30 -800 On 11 Apr 04 at 20:46, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > ...Please share with the group any bulbs that fit any of these > possibilities or even just surprise you even if you read they had > an unusual fragrance. Although in doing so it lives up to its billing in the press, Arum dioscorides is always a surprise -- but not a pleasant one. It reeks of a compost heap that's been over-watered and gone to the dark side. The first few years it flowered, I wasn't clueful and kept wondering just what my neighbors were putting in their compost! Add in its dire coloring of dirty yellow-green with blackish purple-maroon spots and you have a sure winner! -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Apr 15 19:21:38 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040415161411.01859be8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: TOW surprise in fragrant bulbs Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:21:30 -0700 Diane Whitehead wondered if some fragrances are unpleasant only when concentrated. Her strawberry fragrance may be reacting to the heat of her closed car -- chilled strawberries have little aroma, so it's best to bring them to room temperature before serving. As to whether some people can't smell certain scents, probably true, since some people can't detect certain tastes as well as others. Also, I understand that there are some scents that one can smell for only a short time, and then one ceases to "notice" them. An example is said to be violets, and I think it's true, because I have a violet-scented perfume called 1000 de Patou that becomes much more subtle quite quickly. I think that the flowers of Ipheion 'Froyle Mill' are somewhat violet-scented, even though the bulbs smell like slightly rotten garlic. Another light, wonderful fragrance is that of certain tulips -- red cultivars especially. Many of the plants related to lily of the valley (Convallariaceae) share its delicate and lovely scent, including our native Smilacina racemosa subsp. occidentalis, a fine cut flower as well as a perfect border plant. My favorite fragrance in the garden right now is a shrub, the well-named Jasminum fragrantissimum (evergreen Italian jasmine), which unfortunately does not last long when cut. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From vikingdoc@earthlink.net Thu Apr 15 23:28:36 2004 Message-Id: <410-22004451632857960@earthlink.net> From: "Kathy Stokmanis" Subject: Virus and Daffodils Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:28:57 -0700 The responses about virus and daffodils are unwelcome news to me, to say the least. All cultivars in commerce are virused? What are the symptoms? Seed raised daffodils may not be virus-free? Can anyone enlighten me? I love daffodils and have several cultivars but none show streaking, lack of vigor or any of the symptoms that have been described in other bulbs. The only thing I notice is that sometimes they skip a year in flowering. Thanks in advance, Kathy Stokmanis Zone 8/9, Sierra Nevada foothills, California, Mediterranean climate, currently chilly after a prolonged warm spell. Ranunculus, Dichelostemma ida-maia, Scilla peruviana, Bletilla striata, Babiana and Tall Bearded Iris in bloom From eagle85@flash.net Thu Apr 15 23:59:16 2004 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Hippeastrum cybister pic added to the wiki Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:53:41 -0700 I have added two pics of Hippeastrum cybister to the WIKI. This is the first time this one has bloomed for me and I think that I like it very much. Doug Westfall http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Hippeastrum_cybister1.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Hippeastrum_cybister.jpg From mark@marksgardenplants.com Fri Apr 16 01:49:14 2004 Message-Id: <000801c42376$8c092860$fad59851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: TOW surprise in fragrant bulbs Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 06:49:12 +0100 hi all Narcissus 'Kennelis' has a slight fresh lemon scent. Night scented tuberous Pelargoniums are great too for scent but just now I cant remember which scents they have. Mark N Ireland From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Fri Apr 16 11:50:29 2004 Message-Id: <000901c423ca$86284ad0$ebcd403e@John> From: Subject: Reply: Off topic from the TOW, but getting back to it Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:42:15 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: > > John ~ > > a reasonably fresh, triple-creme brie on chunks of Bartlett pear or > fresh sourdough comes close to Heaven with its delightful fresh butter taste. A > good accompaniment would be a California chardonnay not been aged in oak. >... Perhaps, with your "Stinking Bishop," an appropriate wine would > be a vintage of our very own "Fat Bastard." I thought "Fat Bastard" wines were French - at least the ones we get here under that sobriquet are. There is a British beer called 'Bishop's Finger', but it's not to my taste, and better with cheddar and pickled onions than brie & pear! And while on ecclesiastical drinks, we must not forget the Belgian Trappist and Abbey beers, and certainly not Chartreuse, reputed to contain Narcissus juice as an ingredient. > > Must admit to a bit of curiosity, tho. If the fragrance of hyacinth is > objectionable, what then about freesia, another strong (and to many people) > delightful fragrance that, often, is difficult to get enough of? I love the smell of freesias, and in Holland, where such things are affordable, would have vases of 50 at a time in the living room, and loved it. OK, modern cutflower freesias are not as strongly scented as F. alba or F. refracta, but they certainly smell. However light-hearted this discussion has got, the message is very clear: we all perceive scents, fragrances, smells and stinks in very different ways. John Grimshaw > > Dave Karnstedt > Silverton, ORegon > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Fri Apr 16 11:50:28 2004 Message-Id: <002e01c423ca$85757590$9adf403e@John> From: Subject: Reply: Off topic from the TOW, but getting back to it Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:42:15 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: > > John ~ > > a reasonably fresh, triple-creme brie on chunks of Bartlett pear or > fresh sourdough comes close to Heaven with its delightful fresh butter taste. A > good accompaniment would be a California chardonnay not been aged in oak. >... Perhaps, with your "Stinking Bishop," an appropriate wine would > be a vintage of our very own "Fat Bastard." I thought "Fat Bastard" wines were French - at least the ones we get here under that sobriquet are. There is a British beer called 'Bishop's Finger', but it's not to my taste, and better with cheddar and pickled onions than brie & pear! And while on ecclesiastical drinks, we must not forget the Belgian Trappist and Abbey beers, and certainly not Chartreuse, reputed to contain Narcissus juice as an ingredient. > > Must admit to a bit of curiosity, tho. If the fragrance of hyacinth is > objectionable, what then about freesia, another strong (and to many people) > delightful fragrance that, often, is difficult to get enough of? I love the smell of freesias, and in Holland, where such things are affordable, would have vases of 50 at a time in the living room, and loved it. OK, modern cutflower freesias are not as strongly scented as F. alba or F. refracta, but they certainly smell. However light-hearted this discussion has got, the message is very clear: we all perceive scents, fragrances, smells and stinks in very different ways. John Grimshaw > > Dave Karnstedt > Silverton, ORegon > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From msittner@mcn.org Fri Apr 16 10:43:22 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040414154435.00d12810@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Recent additions to the wiki--Muscari, Onixotis, Romulea Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:42:07 -0700 Dear All, My Onixotis stricta bloomed really well this year even though it has not been as rainy as usual. I remembered to keep it moist since it is usually found in wet places. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Onixotis This week I have two Muscaris in bloom. One is the very lovely white one I got from Jane McGary, Muscari pallens and the other is a first time from seed and I hope rightly named, short with blue flowers, Muscari aucheri. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Muscari Another South African Romulea blooming for the first time for me from seed this year is Romulea leipoldtii. It is two toned, cream to white with a yellow center. My first pictures all made it look cream colored, but when I took pictures later the edges of the tepals looked white. I don't know if it changed colors on me or if the light was just different on subsequent days so that it appeared cream at certain times and white at others. I added both pictures for the contrast. These are the same flowers. We often look at each others pictures to help identify a plant. Here is an example of the color being different with the same camera and the same background. I've experimented with different solid backgrounds and the color of the flower changes say with green versus white. And we all know that with regular cameras the kind of film you use makes a difference. In many slide shows the pictures of plants look better than they would have at the time. Each of us have our computers adjusted differently so we all see the posted images a little different. I recently took a class where the teacher said the flat screens did not give the richness of color that the old screens did and anyone really interested in photography should use the crt screens. I find my flat screen much easier on my eyes so am not likely to go back. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanRomuleas Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From piabinha@yahoo.com Fri Apr 16 14:53:07 2004 Message-Id: <20040416185303.20670.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: TOW surprise in fragrant bulbs: Polianthes Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:53:03 -0700 (PDT) i love the fragrance of P. tuberosa but it doesn't seem to be very common. tsuh yang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From toadlily@olywa.net Fri Apr 16 14:51:07 2004 Message-Id: <40802C35.1010803@olywa.net> From: Laura & Dave Subject: A collected list of desired seeds? Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:55:49 -0700 Hi all, I've been intending to post a note, asking if there is a mechanism in place to list seeds that one would especially like to see on the exchange. I know that if I knew that someone wanted a certain species, I'd make an extra effort to get a good, species true seed set for the exchange. As I've only been a member for half a year, perhaps you've already tried this and found it too much work or bother, or even not in the spontaneous spirit of the exchange. However, I'd be willing to do the work if it is deemed a good idea. Perhaps people could submit a list of no more than five species they really wanted to me, NOT the list. I would then make a compilation list and send it as a weekly e-mail, or however frequently seemed reasonable. We did something similar for a local plant exchange, and it worked quite well. Don't start sending requests just yet, let's see if this idea seems worthwhile to the group. I'll post another note if the feedback is positive, to let you know that the "lust line" is open. Thanks again, Peace and good gardening Dave Brastow toadlily@olywa.net From totototo@pacificcoast.net Tue Apr 13 19:43:57 2004 Message-Id: <200404132343.i3DNhqXm014418@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Narcissus 'Quince' Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:46:01 -800 Bulbs of Narcissus 'Quince' bought last fall and potted are clearly diseased: the leaves are notably striped and some of the flower scapes are deformed. I don't know if it's the yellow stripe virus or a nematode, but either way, they're going into the garbage (soil too) when they finish flowering. Does anyone know of a source for healthy 'Quince'? It's a nice plant that I'd like to enjoy for more than one year. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@pacificcoast.net Tue Apr 13 19:43:55 2004 Message-Id: <200404132343.i3DNhqXk014418@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Fragrances that Surprise--TOW Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:46:01 -800 On 12 Apr 04 at 17:04, Boyce Tankersley wrote: > I've never thought of Narcissus as being all that fragrant. Earlier > in my horticulture career I am sure I must have stuck my nose in a > few Daffodils and I know in my part-time high school job as a > florist deliveryman they didn't seem to have a fragrance at all. > > So imagine my surprise when my questing nose for the most wonderful > fragrance late one spring brought me to a small flowered Narcissus > with grasslike foliage - Narcissus jonquilla, or one of its hybrids. > I've added to the 'must have's' of my garden and have enjoyed this > fragrant delight ever since. I have large pots of several of the big triandrus hybrids -- Liberty Bells for example -- on my front porch. At night when it's cool, there's a delicious scent from them. Not strong, but definitely there. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada "To co-work is human, to cow-ork, bovine." From thisisnotgonnawork@yahoo.com Fri Apr 16 22:14:23 2004 Message-Id: <20040417021414.53572.qmail@web40407.mail.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: TOW surprise in fragrant bulbs: Polianthes Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:14:14 -0700 (PDT) They are powerful, and can fill a whole house with fragrance! --- piaba wrote: > i love the fragrance of P. tuberosa but it doesn't > seem to be very common. > > > tsuh yang > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From nargsbs@efn.org Sat Apr 17 01:40:02 2004 Message-Id: From: "Ernie O'Byrne" Subject: Another odd scent Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:39:55 -0700 As we were planting Cyclamen libanoticum yesterday, my wife and I both thought that the scent was rather strongly of roofing tar and not, as Chris Grey-Wilson says, "...a strange scent, which is best described as 'peppery' (some say 'acetylene') and not particularly pleasant." Neither of us got the peppery but both got roofing tar, and we frequently disagree on scents. He was right, though, about the "not particularly pleasant" part. Ernie O'Byrne Northwest Garden Nursery 86813 Central Road Eugene, ORegon 97402 USA USDA Z. 7B From valden@vectis52.freeserve.co.uk Sat Apr 17 01:58:11 2004 Message-Id: <001601c42440$e7818af0$448d883e@deny471g8xq1jy> From: "Den Wilson" Subject: Hippeastrum cybister pic added to the wiki Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 06:57:01 +0100 Doug, Excellent pics. Might I ask if these plants were raised from seed distributed around 4 years ago (I think originally contributed by Dwain Hicks)? H.argentinum is just beginning to open here. Regards. Den Wilson Isle of Wight UK. Zone 8 (maritime) almost frost-free. From eagle85@flash.net Sat Apr 17 12:37:50 2004 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Hippeastrum cybister pic added to the wiki Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 09:32:15 -0700 Den WilsonDoug Westfall valden@vectis52.freeserve.co.uk11111Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Doug, > > Excellent pics. > > Might I ask if these plants were raised from seed distributed around 4 years > ago (I think originally contributed by Dwain Hicks)? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Den, No, not that I know of. Perhaps from seed that were germinated by Chas. Hardman. I purchased it as a small bulb at a bulb symposium in Los Angeles, California. As it was growing, it developed about ten offsets. Doug > > Regards. > > Den Wilson > Isle of Wight > UK. > Zone 8 (maritime) almost frost-free. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From skyblueskiesflowers@yahoo.com Sat Apr 17 13:03:01 2004 Message-Id: <20040417170300.86347.qmail@web12603.mail.yahoo.com> From: Elizabeth Leigh Subject: A collected list of desired seeds? Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 10:03:00 -0700 (PDT) Sounds like a good idea. Libby Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:55:49 -0700 From: Laura & Dave Subject: [pbs] A collected list of desired seeds? Hi all, I've been intending to post a note, asking if there is a mechanism in place to list seeds that one would especially like to see on the exchange. I know that if I knew that someone wanted a certain species, I'd make an extra effort to get a good, species true seed set for the exchange. As I've only been a member for half a year, perhaps you've already tried this and found it too much work or bother, or even not in the spontaneous spirit of the exchange. However, I'd be willing to do the work if it is deemed a good idea. Perhaps people could submit a list of no more than five species they really wanted to me, NOT the list. I would then make a compilation list and send it as a weekly e-mail, or however frequently seemed reasonable. We did something similar for a local plant exchange, and it worked quite well. Don't start sending requests just yet, let's see if this idea seems worthwhile to the group. I'll post another note if the feedback is positive, to let you know that the "lust line" is open. Thanks again, Peace and good gardening Dave Brastow toadlily@olywa.net --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th From Jamievande@freenet.de Sat Apr 17 13:00:50 2004 Message-Id: <001201c4249e$71d629b0$6502a8c0@Jamie2> From: "Jamie" Subject: pics added Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:07:19 +0200 Just to let you know, I've added two new pics of Gymnandiris sisyrinchium to the Morea sub-page, as well as a shot of an apricot spider Clivia miniata I snapped up at the garden centre a year ago. Jamie V. Cologne From eagle85@flash.net Sat Apr 17 14:20:34 2004 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Hippeastrom seed germination Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 11:15:06 -0700 To any/all Hippeastrum "growers," I have never tried to germinate Hippeastrum seeds. I have some that I would very much like to germinate. What is the most "reliable" method to use? Any help will be appreciated. Doug Westfall From jshields104@insightbb.com Sat Apr 17 14:57:05 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040417135152.0237aa70@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Hippeastrom seed germination Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:57:00 -0500 Doug, For 30 years, I've gotten far better results with the floatation method than by any other way. Float the seeds on an inch or so of tap water in a clear drinking glass, a jar, or something similar. Cover the top with some clear plastic to prevent mold and bacteria from entering and to avoid evaporation. Place in bright indirect light or, preferably, under fluorescent lights. When the seedlings have both a root and a green leaf, plant in your favorite bulb seedling potting mix. Cover loosely with clear plastic for the first week or so, while keeping well watered. Good luck! Jim Shields in central Indiana At 11:15 AM 4/17/2004 -0700, you wrote: >To any/all Hippeastrum "growers," > >I have never tried to germinate Hippeastrum seeds. I have some that I would >very much like to germinate. > >What is the most "reliable" method to use? > >Any help will be appreciated. > >Doug Westfall ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From ernestwells@mindspring.com Sat Apr 17 15:48:13 2004 Message-Id: <27F57FF2-90A8-11D8-B293-000A95937A28@mindspring.com> From: Tom Wells Subject: Hippeastrom seed germination Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:48:10 -0700 Doug, Jim Shields told me about a floatation method. I use a clear sweet-roll container, which I have dutifully emptied of it contents, with about 3 inches of tap water for the seeds to float in. I started a batch of my 'Piquant' selfed seeds a week ago in my garden window and have already started having seed germinate. I used this same technique last year on 'Minerva' x 'Red Lion' seeds and had about 90% germination. Tom On Saturday, April 17, 2004, at 11:15 AM, Douglas Westfall wrote: > To any/all Hippeastrum "growers," > > I have never tried to germinate Hippeastrum seeds. I have some that I > would > very much like to germinate. > > What is the most "reliable" method to use? > > Any help will be appreciated. > > Doug Westfall > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From eagle85@flash.net Sat Apr 17 16:00:38 2004 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Hippeastrom seed germination Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:55:08 -0700 J.E. ShieldsDoug Westfall jshields104@insightbb.com11111Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA Jim, Thanks for this response inc. instructions. Doug > Doug, > > For 30 years, I've gotten far better results with the floatation method > than by any other way. > > Float the seeds on an inch or so of tap water in a clear drinking glass, a > jar, or something similar. Cover the top with some clear plastic to > prevent mold and bacteria from entering and to avoid evaporation. Place in > bright indirect light or, preferably, under fluorescent lights. When the > seedlings have both a root and a green leaf, plant in your favorite bulb > seedling potting mix. Cover loosely with clear plastic for the first week > or so, while keeping well watered. > > Good luck! > > Jim Shields > in central Indiana From eagle85@flash.net Sat Apr 17 16:02:25 2004 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Hippeastrom seed germination Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:56:58 -0700 Tom WellsDoug Westfall ernestwells@mindspring.com11111Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA Tom, Thanks for the info. Jim just responded with this info as well. I'll give it a try. Doug From ernestwells@mindspring.com Sat Apr 17 16:07:48 2004 Message-Id: From: Tom Wells Subject: Hippeastrom seed germination Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:07:46 -0700 Don't forget, you must eat all the sweet rolls for best results! Tom On Saturday, April 17, 2004, at 12:56 PM, Douglas Westfall wrote: > Tom WellsDoug Westfall ernestwells@mindspring.com11111Claiborne Dr. > Long > Beach, CA > > Tom, > > Thanks for the info. Jim just responded with this info as well. I'll > give > it a try. > > Doug > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From c_mueller@cox-internet.com Sat Apr 17 16:09:32 2004 Message-Id: <002001c424b8$8ae0fec0$f59bfa18@coxinternet.com> From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: Hippeastrom seed germination Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 15:14:09 -0500 Doug... I just lay them out flat on sandy, well draining medium in a container with drainage holes and cover with a very little mixture on top. Then they sit on the mist propagation bench for about 10 days to two weeks and germinate. Dr. McEachern of the department keeps his in a dry but cold storage container for a year and then sows them. He must think they must overcome dormancy, but I never thought that necessary. I believe I read of another method on our e-robin within the last year or so. Planting in margarine tubs with plenty of water on the top - seeds floating. When they germinate punch holes in the bottom of the container so the water will drain and the seeds will come to rest on the surface. Can't recollect who offered this advice. I have had trouble with the floating germination method when I tried to pick up the germinated seeds to plant them. The shoot is very 'brittle' at that time and liable to break off. Cynthia W. Mueller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Westfall" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 1:15 PM Subject: [pbs] Hippeastrom seed germination > To any/all Hippeastrum "growers," > > I have never tried to germinate Hippeastrum seeds. I have some that I would > very much like to germinate. > > What is the most "reliable" method to use? > > Any help will be appreciated. > > Doug Westfall > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From totototo@pacificcoast.net Wed Apr 14 16:09:21 2004 Message-Id: <200404142009.i3EK98PI027115@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Narcissus 'Quince' Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:11:25 -800 On 13 Apr 04 at 20:18, Arnold Trachtenberg wrote: > Rodger: > > Nancy Wilson has Quince. > > http://www.asis.com/~nwilson/index.html But is it virus- and nematode-free? I suspect that 'Quince' is one of those cultivars where all the commercial stock is diseased; 'Tete-a-Tete' is another such. I'm hoping that someone out there has clean stock of 'Quince' or has run some through meristem culture to clean it up. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From eagle85@flash.net Sat Apr 17 17:35:09 2004 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Hippeastrom seed germination Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 14:29:41 -0700 Tom WellsDoug Westfall ernestwells@mindspring.com11111Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Don't forget, you must eat all the sweet rolls for best results! ^^^^^^^ Tom, That should do something for the blood sugar!!! Doug From eagle85@flash.net Sat Apr 17 17:39:22 2004 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Hippeastrom seed germination Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 14:33:53 -0700 Cynthia MuellerDoug Westfall c_mueller@cox-internet.com11111Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > > I have had trouble with the floating germination method when I tried to pick > up the germinated seeds to plant them. The shoot is very 'brittle' at that > time and liable to break off. > > Cynthia W. Mueller ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Cynthia, Which ever method I use, I will be very careful whit the new shoots. Thanks for the response. Doug From eagle85@flash.net Sat Apr 17 17:44:17 2004 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Hippeastrum cybister pic added to the wiki Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 14:38:46 -0700 Den WilsonDoug Westfall valden@vectis52.freeserve.co.uk11111Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA Den, I meant to add that I had three pots of H. papilio, H. intiflorum and H. cybister bloom in March. Sending up flower shoots are H. evansiae and H. petiolatum. By the way, our weather zone is nearly the same. Doug > Doug, > > Excellent pics. > > Might I ask if these plants were raised from seed distributed around 4 years > ago (I think originally contributed by Dwain Hicks)? > > H.argentinum is just beginning to open here. > > Regards. > > Den Wilson > Isle of Wight > UK. > Zone 8 (maritime) almost frost-free. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From thisisnotgonnawork@yahoo.com Sat Apr 17 18:42:09 2004 Message-Id: <20040417224203.38363.qmail@web40407.mail.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: Hippeastrom seed germination Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 15:42:03 -0700 (PDT) I don't know which is the most reliable but I resort to the floating method with tap water changed regularly. It helps me overcome my impatience since I can clearly see how many are germinating. I would handle them carefully after a green leaf forms and pour in vermiculite or whatever fine media around them to avoid breaking them. James Frelichowski Shafter/Wasco, near Bakersfield, CA --- Douglas Westfall wrote: > To any/all Hippeastrum "growers," > > I have never tried to germinate Hippeastrum seeds. > I have some that I would > very much like to germinate. > > What is the most "reliable" method to use? > > Any help will be appreciated. > > Doug Westfall > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From mrgoldbear@yahoo.com Sat Apr 17 19:33:55 2004 Message-Id: <20040417233348.96957.qmail@web20501.mail.yahoo.com> From: David Sneddon Subject: A collected list of desired seeds? Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 16:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Dave, I think your idea has merit, you'll note that I posted a seed solicitation message for milk and wine lily seed a week or two ago. I'd like to think that was enough for someone to help out but everyone is probably thinking the other guy/gal is gonna take care of it?? It's going to come down to this no matter how formal this is done though? Regards, David --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ From msittner@mcn.org Sat Apr 17 22:31:08 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040414161248.01927a20@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Recent wiki additions--Veratrum, Lachenalia, Nothoscordum Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:29:54 -0700 Dear All, My theme for today are three plants that have had negative press. I recently found my husband had taken a picture of our rare fringed corn lily, Veratrum fimbriatum. I've been admiring the leaves as they emerge lately on my hikes. They really are impressive. This plant flowers in late summer and at that time can be a bit scruffy after all kinds of insects have had a chance to eat it and without rain for months everything can be dusty. Still I was rather surprised to read that this species was unattractive in Bulbs of North America. I'm not sure I'd call it beautiful, but the flowers are very intricate and certainly interesting. Since it is one of the geophytes that grows where I live and rare, we consider it special although I'd never think to grow it since it gets so big and needs a very wet place which my garden isn't in summer. I asked all the people in my hiking group when we stopped to look at it this week where it has emerged in very wet sag ponds and the consensus was that the leaves were very attractive at least in the early months. I didn't have a camera with me so these were last year's pictures. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Veratrum Blooming recently for me was Lachenalia bachmanii. Graham Duncan describes it as not particularly attractive, but I like it. Some of the "must have" Lachenalias he lists don't always appeal to me. Obviously what looks good to one person may not to others. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Lachenalia The third plant deserves its bad reputation as an invasive aggressive weed. It is Nothoscordum gracile. I saw it all over the Huntington Garden in Southern California where they will probably never get rid of it. After David Fenwick praised Tulbaghias I decided to grow some from seed and have gotten seed of three different species from NARGS seed exchanges that all turned out to be this pest instead. It is very disheartening. The latest was supposed to be Tulbaghia capensis which is brown to purple and green with an orange corona. You wouldn't think it could be confused with a white flower. But in my search to confirm my suspicion I found that pictures of Nothoscordum gracile are hard to find. The pictures on the web are not very good and the best one I could find, the one below, I think is of something else. http://www.ortobotanicoportici.unina.it/Piante/nothoscordum_gracile.htm There ought to be a section in generic bulb books that shows pictures of some of the ones to avoid or they should be pictured along with all the other bulbs so people could confirm that the one they have is not desirable. So before I toss this new batch as I have done the others in the past, I have added some photographs to the wiki. When it finally opens, the flowers are kind of attractive and nicely fragrant, but a lot of the time the flowers are closed. It certainly has been known by a lot of different names so I added all the synonyms on the wiki. Maybe I'll get a shot of the bulblets around the mother bulb if I find time as it and the soil goes in the trash. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Nothoscordum Mary Sue From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Apr 18 13:14:17 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040417195157.00bc31b0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Recent wiki additions--Veratrum, Lachenalia, Nothoscordum Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 20:00:31 -0700 Mary Sue wrote, >I recently found my husband had taken a picture of our rare fringed corn lily, Veratrum >fimbriatum. I've been admiring the leaves as they emerge lately on my hikes. They really are >impressive. This plant flowers in late summer and at that time can be a bit scruffy after all kinds >of insects have had a chance to eat it and without rain for months everything can be dusty. Still I >was rather surprised to read that this species was unattractive in Bulbs of North America. I'm not >sure I'd call it beautiful, but the flowers are very intricate and certainly interesting. Writers who remark that Veratrum species are unattractive are generally referring to the plants in flower. Many species have small, green flowers that don't appeal to gardeners. However, few serious gardeners fail to be attracted to the foliage of veratrums, especially if it is not damaged by slugs and snails. I grow V. californicum (one of the more attractive in flower) in the garden, having collected seeds from the roadside nearby and sown it in situ. It took almost ten years to flower but now flowers every year. The rootstock is a large bulb, or sort of bulb (I'm not sure just what one should call it) with heavy feeding roots. Digging a mature plant is quite a project. The bulb makes offsets, eventually producing a large colony in moist soil. The leaves are beautiful in spring, and they seem to develop a resistance to slug predation over the years, so even without bait they eventually look good. They do, however, wither by midsummer. Veratrums are a feature of alpine meadows all around the Northern Hemisphere, where they are striking as they are often the largest plants in the community. Their common name is "false hellebore," which I can't understand as they don't resemble hellebores in any respect except in having green flowers. They are quite poisonous. Alaskan native people used them as a wound dressing; they regarded the plants as so powerful that they left a small gift in the hole after digging a plant to propitiate the plant's spirit. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From geophyte@sbcglobal.net Sun Apr 18 00:13:05 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20040417205831.02b9ddb0@pop.sbcglobal.net> From: Jamie Subject: A collected list of desired seeds? Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:09:24 -0700 David, I wouldn't feel ignored over the lack of response to your request - it's only mid-April. I don't think anyone has any Crinum seed available yet. Jamie From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Sun Apr 18 04:11:07 2004 Message-Id: <000f01c4251c$b1f6f3c0$3cca403e@John> From: Subject: Hippeastrom seed germination Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:07:29 +0100 Does anyone know if the flotation method works for Rhodophiala? John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Gardens Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk From jshields104@insightbb.com Sun Apr 18 08:34:57 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040418073320.0227e708@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Hippeastrom seed germination Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 07:34:50 -0500 John, Floatation works for Sprekelia and for Habranthus/Zephyranthes seeds, but I haven't tried any Rhodophiala myself. Has anyone else tried them? Jim At 09:07 AM 4/18/2004 +0100, you wrote: >Does anyone know if the flotation method works for Rhodophiala? > >John Grimshaw > >Dr John M. Grimshaw >Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens > >Gardens Cottage >Colesbourne >Nr Cheltenham >Gloucestershire GL53 9NP > >Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From matthewgale@btopenworld.com Sun Apr 18 09:43:24 2004 Message-Id: <004301c4254b$52168900$a6648751@default> From: "MATTHEW GALE" Subject: Hippeastrom seed germination Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 14:44:03 +0100 Hi John, I tend to use the floatation method for the Rhodophiala I've grown from seed. Most species tend to germinate very quickly, although some of the 'alpine' species such as R. rhodolirion can be a bit slow to germinate in my experience. I tend to float them in petri dishes now rather than other containers and seem get less mouldy seeds as a result. Matthew Gale Birmingham, UK matthewgale@btopenworld.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Hippeastrom seed germination > Does anyone know if the flotation method works for Rhodophiala? > > John Grimshaw > > Dr John M. Grimshaw > Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens > > Gardens Cottage > Colesbourne > Nr Cheltenham > Gloucestershire GL53 9NP > > Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Sun Apr 18 10:49:25 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040418071748.01918e20@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Flotation Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 07:48:02 -0700 Dear All, We discussed Flotation on this list in great detail in November 2002. Lee Poulsen had a very complete response that I reposted from another list: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2002-November/011904.html But anyone interested might want to read some of the other posts on this subject from the same time. The search on our archive page was working just now, but who knows for how long. I'm with Cynthia however about losing seeds in transplanting. I've tried flotation with all kinds of winged seeds and it does work and is very gratifying to see results so quickly. When I did three or four experiments (when I had enough seeds to try it two ways) of flotation and direct planting I had a lot more survivors from direct planting as I lost a lot of seeds after I potted them on. John Harris wrote an article about growing Hippeastrum from seed in the Spring 2000 issue of BULBS. Since I edited that article I remember it well. I have modified his method a little for myself and have had wonderful success using it for Hippeastrum, Rhodophiala, Cyrtanthus, etc. Very briefly for John's method: you add whatever soil you prefer to use to a pot and water it well. Add sand or grit to the top. Use a label or something like that to make a vertical slit and place the seeds on their sides in the slits with some of the seed out of the soil. Put the pot in a plastic bag and close it. He put his under lights and found seed sprouting in about 10 days. He left them in the bag without watering them until the green shoots were taller (7-15 cm., or 3-6 in.) and then removed the bag and watered enough to keep the moisture wet adding dilute fertilizer. He reported that at about 6-8 weeks he had to transplant as at that point the leaves were 25cm (10 in) long and the bulbs 1 cm (1/2 in ) wide. This method is really very easy and eliminates the worry about changing water and transplanting germinating seeds when they are tiny with brittle roots. For those people who want to try flotation I recommend reading Lee's post and some of the others in the archives for that month. Mary Sue From valden@vectis52.freeserve.co.uk Sun Apr 18 14:22:46 2004 Message-Id: <001c01c42572$111e62c0$6687883e@deny471g8xq1jy> From: "Den Wilson" Subject: Rhodophiala and seed germination. Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:21:23 +0100 Hello all, I suppose we all have a favourite method of germinating seed so perhaps it's best to stick with those that work for you. Personally, I've not had much success with floating seeds but perhaps that's down to me. For flat amaryllid seed I place a wad of tissue-paper moistened with a fungicide (sometimes I forget the fungicide) into a small plastic container, sprinkle the seed over the top and replace the lid. Hippeastrum, Rhodophiala and most other tender or near-tender amaryllids will germinate at normal room temperatures in a matter of days or weeks rather than months . Light does not appear to be necessary. I pot up the seed in very gritty/sandy compost as soon as germination is noticed and usually before the first leaf is evident. There the seedlings remain for at least the first year. Rhodophiala (those I have tried) germinate at any time of year. The large majority are summer-growers enjoying similar growth patterns to Hippeastrum but flower later in the summer, usually repeatedly until the autumn. The winter-growers (R. bifida and its relatives) will germinate and grow at any time but settle into a winter-dormant pattern naturally as they mature. These usually flower with the leaves in the autumn but there are one or two which flower on naked stems in late summer well before the foliage emerges. We are fortunate to have active members of this group with first-hand expert knowledge of these amaryllids. Rhodophiala pratense are just showing the first flower spikes. Rr. araucana, advena, chilense and elwesii usually follow in May/June. Alberto tells us there are very many more wonderful species sadly under threat in the wild. I wish Alberto a speedy recovery. Regards. Den Wilson Isle of Wight UK. Zone 8 (maritime) almost frost-free. From mail@odysseybulbs.com Sun Apr 18 15:25:17 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20040418151207.02443ec0@pop.earthlink.net> From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Dicentra cucullaria - pink forms Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:36:01 -0400 Flora North America notes that pink-suffused D. cucullaria are common, but noticeably pink forms are rare in these parts. This spring in the nearby woods I found (and marked for later reference) a clump with quite definitely pale-pink flowers. The same woods also has a colony of D. cucullaria which have pink-blotched white flowers. You can find a lot of other variants of this species in such characteristics as flower size; the length and angle of the basal spurs; the number of flowers per scape; the amount of yellow at the flowers' apex, etc. I've never heard of the cultivar 'Pittsburgh'. Leaf color also shows quite a bit of variation in the two native dicentras. Some populations -- particularly of D. canadensis -- have extremely glaucous foliage. So far this spring the star of the local wildflower show has been Erythronium americanum. For some reason, at least twice as many are in flower this year as in any other spring in my memory. Russell Berrien Springs, Michigan, USA, USDA zone 6 At 11:42 AM 4/18/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Anybody know how many pink forms of Dicentra cucullaria have been >found? How common are pink forms in wild populations? > >And is anyone familiar with the authentic form of 'Pittsburgh', the >one named pink D.c.? What, if anything, distinguishes it from other >pink forms? Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs 8984 Meadow Lane, Berrien Springs, Michigan 49103 269-471-4642 www.odysseybulbs.com From JFlintoff@aol.com Sun Apr 18 16:40:38 2004 Message-Id: <536A6161.68FC0637.022C994E@aol.com> From: JFlintoff@aol.com Subject: {pbs]Dicentra cucullaria-pink forms Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 16:40:30 -0400 Rodger I haven't been able to obtain D cucullaria ' Pittsburg' , tho I believe it is still grown in North America and is certainly available commercially in Great Britain. I do grow a pink form that Rick Lupp selected I believe from some wild-collected plants; it is as pretty as might be imagined. I believe Rick's source was from eastern US or from the Midwest. Having failed at growing it as a woodlander, I find Dutchman breeches thrive best here in pots treated as a fritillary or crocus and allowed to dry out in the summer. Anemonella thalictroides seems to do best here with the same culture. Although Dutchman breeches is usually considered to be a plant of the " east " it does occur in Washington in the Columbia River Gorge between Washington and Oregon. Where I have seen it growing wild it certainly must go completely dry in summer. I haven't tried growing these yet but intend to do so. Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washington,USA Zone 8- modified Mediterranean From susanann@sbcglobal.net Sun Apr 18 16:49:24 2004 Message-Id: From: Susan Hayek Subject: PBS membership Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:49:36 -0700 I don't to whom to address this. I sent my membership money for PBS March 2 and the check still hasn't cleared. Nor have either of my BX payments. ????? -- susan hayek, who is..... owned by Jasper & Schubert the Standard Poodles, Gracie the Rhodesian, Pup-Quiz the Basenji and their new Basenji brother, Jones.... on the North Coast of CA, USA susanann@sbcglobal.net, copyright 2004 From hornig@usadatanet.net Sun Apr 18 17:10:54 2004 Message-Id: <174210-220044018211053300@M2W036.mail2web.com> From: "hornig@usadatanet.net" Subject: {pbs]Dicentra cucullaria-pink forms Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:10:53 -0400 I'm growing a pale-pink-flowered selection (really a group of them, I think) sent to me years ago by Amber Hearn, who collected it - but I would have to hunt around to find out where. It hasn't opened yet; I'll try to pay attention when it does and make a more intellligent evaluation of its flowers. Ellen Hornig Oswego NY USA Z5 -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From DaveKarn@aol.com Sun Apr 18 18:44:04 2004 Message-Id: <1da.1f52a491.2db45eac@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: REPLY: Dicentra cucullaria-pink forms Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:43:56 EDT In a message dated 18-Apr-04 1:40:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, JFlintoff@aol.com writes: > it does occur in Washington in the Columbia River Gorge between Washington > and Oregon. North or South side? Dave Karnstedt From JFlintoff@aol.com Sun Apr 18 19:12:51 2004 Message-Id: <269A0A59.7AB5C7CF.022C994E@aol.com> From: JFlintoff@aol.com Subject: Dicentra cucullaria-pink forms Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:12:46 -0400 Dave I think I've seen the western form of Dutchman's breeches on both sides of the Columbia River Gorge; one place I recall where it was abundant was Major Creek on the Washington side. Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washington,USA Zone 8 From eagle85@flash.net Sun Apr 18 22:46:00 2004 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Hippeastrom seed germination Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:40:19 -0700 James FrelichowskiDoug Westfall thisisnotgonnawork@yahoo.com11111Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > I don't know which is the most reliable but I resort > to the floating method with tap water changed > regularly. It helps me overcome my impatience since I > can clearly see how many are germinating. I would > handle them carefully after a green leaf forms and > pour in vermiculite or whatever fine media around them > to avoid breaking them. > > James Frelichowski > Shafter/Wasco, > near Bakersfield, CA ^^^^^^^^ Thanks, James. The idea of adding the vermiculite or whatever is a "good" suggestion. I'll give it a try. Doug From khixson@nu-world.com Sun Apr 18 23:54:15 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20040418205412.0085f44c@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Veratrum Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 20:54:12 -0700 Mary Sue, thank you for mentioning Veratrum, and Jane, thank you for adding to the subject. I've never grown them, though have often thought they would be attractive architectural plants, if only the leaves were not so consistently shredded. >However, few serious gardeners fail to be >attracted to the foliage of veratrums, especially if it is not damaged by >slugs and snails. >The leaves are beautiful in spring, and they seem to develop a >resistance to slug predation over the years, so even without bait they >eventually look good. >They are quite poisonous. My question is, is this slug/snail damage? The early season leaves I've seen are usually not damaged, and the damage pattern is more consistant with caterpillers than slugs--ie, the leafblades are eaten between the ribs of the leaves, not from the outside in as in the usual pattern of slugs. It is always interesting that some creatures seem able to eat plants which are poisonous to most others. I've long thought I'd like to grow one or more Veratrums somewhere in the garden, but have never been in the right place at the right time to harvest seeds. Ken, western Oregon From khixson@nu-world.com Sun Apr 18 23:54:33 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20040418205419.0085f44c@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Bloom Sequence Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 20:54:19 -0700 Hi, members: I've been wondering if it might be of interest to attempt to compile a list of blooming dates, or at least the sequence of flowering of genera of bulbs, and perhaps adding a paragraph at the bottom of each wiki page? For instance, Gladiolus griseus flowered recently, and at the time I looked at Gladiolus tristis, in another area, thinking it might also be about to flower. Then it wasn't, but now the stems are thickening and presumably it will flower in a couple weeks or so. It would help to remember to look for things in flower, try to photograph, and in this garden, spread slugbait to reduce damage to flowers. Ken, western Oregon From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Apr 19 01:39:58 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040418223727.00bba000@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Veratrum Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:39:46 -0700 Ken Hixson wrote, At 08:54 PM 4/18/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Mary Sue, thank you for mentioning Veratrum, and Jane, thank you for >adding to the subject. I've never grown them, though have often thought >they would be attractive architectural plants, if only the leaves were >not so consistently shredded My question is, is this slug/snail >damage? The early season leaves >I've seen are usually not damaged, and the damage pattern is more consistant >with caterpillers than slugs--ie, the leafblades are eaten between the ribs >of the leaves, not from the outside in as in the usual pattern of slugs. >It is always interesting that some creatures seem able to eat plants which >are poisonous to most others. > Since the leaves are sometimes damaged on plants at high elevations, where there are no slugs, something else must be eating them. However, I have seen slugs feeding on young plants here. Slugs eat a lot of poisonous stuff, like Colchicum leaves and flowers. Ken, if you live near the Portland area, let me know later in the summer and I'll dig up a big Veratrum for you so you won't have to wait 10 years for it to mature. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From msittner@mcn.org Mon Apr 19 02:08:57 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040418230526.01928790@mail.mcn.org> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW-Part One Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:06:14 -0700 Hymenocallis--TOW Part One The New World genus Hymenocallis Salisbury (Amaryllidaceae), recognized as a distinct genus since 1812, is composed of roughly 70 to 80 species with plenty of room for debate. The native habitats range in the United States from Indiana, Kentucky, Virginia, south to the Carolinas, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Louisiana, Texas and Mexico where the genus explodes; the majority of the species occur in Central America and radiate down into the northern portions of South America (Venezuela, Guyana, and Brazil) as well. The closer one looks at the species and groups of species of Hymenocallis, the harder it is to find the lines of distinction. Herbarium specimens are valuable in providing locality information, primarily. Reticulate/hybrid evolution would seem to play some role in speciation within the genus. A big problem in gaining an understanding of the genus is that populations are being eradicated at alarmingly fast rates as wetlands are being modified. Lost populations could be links to other taxa; once the various populations are destroyed, the hybrid swarm populations become isolated. It is like working on a puzzle with missing pieces. For example, H. littoralis, the type specimen, is from a small island (Tera Bomba) on the NE coast of Columbia. This could very well be one of the species H. carribbeae or H. latifolia. The SE US has 15 species (roughly). The tropics (South America, West Indies and Caribbean island) is host to a wide array of species with 4 species occurring in Cuba, at least 3 or 4 species in Jamaica, a few species in the West Indies. South America is host to another 5-6 species (e.g. H. venezuelensis, H. tubiflora, H. speciosa, etc...). In Central America, H. latifolia occurs in Panama, Honduras, Costa Rica, Belize, Guatemala and Mexico (and uncommonly coastal SE US). Mexico is another center of diversity for the genus with many species native to the various climatic regions. Thad Howard, Dave Lehmiller and Jim Bauml (he did his PhD on the Mexican species) have experience with these plants. These are a little more difficult to cultivate, as replicating their habitat is difficult at sea level here in humid Florida. The three closely related genera once classified as Hymenocallis , Ismene, Elisena, and Leptochiton , replace Hymenocallis in the Andean regions. For practical purposes sometimes when referring to hybrids, the genera Elisena, Ismene, and Leptochiton are recognized under the genus Hymenocallis in a broad sense. They are distinct groups, not the true spider lilies however. Meerow and Snijman recognize each group as distinct genera; together the four genera comprise their tribe Hymenocallideae. The taxonomy of the group seems in flux continuously. Interestingly, the taxa that offset prolifically do not readily set seeds and the taxa that set seeds well are not typically prolific offsetters. In some groups, rhizomes may occur in one population while in another of the same species, some individuals in a population may have rhizome while most others do not (H. palmeri, H. henryae, etc...). Some species rarely offset, particularly within the Mexican group. Based upon my encounters with the genus in the United States, Hymenocallis populations most often occur in or on the margins of wetland ecosystems (marshes, lakes, rivers, forested swamps, wet prairies). Less often they occur in dry woods (H. galvestonesis), flatwoods (H. henryae), or in disturbed sites such as pastures and roadside ditches as do, for example, some populations of H. palmeri and H. galvestonensis (H. ocidentalis var. eulae) , or on coastal dunes as does H. latifolia var. keyensis (possibly H. carribeae) on Bahia Honda key in Florida. They are most spectacular when found blooming on many rivers and spring runs in the Southeast, such as the Cahaba lilies (Hymenocallis coronaria) on the Cahaba River in Alabama and the spider lilies (H. rotata) on the Santa Fe River of northern Florida and its spring runs (H. franklinensis is another spring run spider lily) . A few of the southeastern US species are listed as threatened or endangered and are protected in more than one state at the state level (H. coronaria, H. godfreyi, H. henryae). Spider lilies are commonly cultivated throughout most of their range and are grown in many tropical parts of the New World. They make excellent cut flowers, even if short lived. A few of the tropical species hold their flower for a few days, however. Kevin Preuss St. Petersburg, FL From miaam@ars-grin.gov Mon Apr 19 07:27:39 2004 Message-Id: <001f01c42602$a38c7da0$344285c7@SHRS.APHIS.USDA.GOV> From: "Alan Meerow" Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW-Part One Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:37:04 -0400 No, Kevin, we recognized Ismene, Elisena and Pseudostenomesson as SUBGENERA of Ismene. Leptochiton (the former Hymenocallis quitoensis and H. heliantha) was recognzied as a distinct genus. Alan ----------------------------- Alan W. Meerow, Ph.D., Research Geneticist and Systematist USDA-ARS-SHRS, National Germplasm Repository 13601 Old Cutler Road, Miami, FL 33158 USA voice: (305) 254-3635 fax: (305) 969-6410 email: miaam@ars-grin.gov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin D. Preuss (by way of Mary Sue Ittner)" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 2:06 AM Subject: [pbs] Hymenocallis--TOW-Part One > Hymenocallis--TOW Part One > > The New World genus Hymenocallis Salisbury (Amaryllidaceae), recognized as > a distinct genus since 1812, is composed of roughly 70 to 80 species with > plenty of room for debate. The native habitats range in the United States > from Indiana, Kentucky, Virginia, south to the Carolinas, Georgia, Florida, > Alabama, Louisiana, Texas and Mexico where the genus explodes; the > majority of the species occur in Central America and radiate down into the > northern portions of South America (Venezuela, Guyana, and Brazil) as well. > > The closer one looks at the species and groups of species of Hymenocallis, > the harder it is to find the lines of distinction. Herbarium specimens are > valuable in providing locality information, primarily. Reticulate/hybrid > evolution would seem to play some role in speciation within the genus. > > A big problem in gaining an understanding of the genus is that populations > are being eradicated at alarmingly fast rates as wetlands are being > modified. Lost populations could be links to other taxa; once the various > populations are destroyed, the hybrid swarm populations become isolated. > It is like working on a puzzle with missing pieces. For example, H. > littoralis, the type specimen, is from a small island (Tera Bomba) on the > NE coast of Columbia. This could very well be one of the species H. > carribbeae or H. latifolia. > > The SE US has 15 species (roughly). The tropics (South America, West Indies > and Caribbean island) is host to a wide array of species with 4 species > occurring in Cuba, at least 3 or 4 species in Jamaica, a few species in the > West Indies. > > South America is host to another 5-6 species (e.g. H. venezuelensis, H. > tubiflora, H. speciosa, etc...). In Central America, H. latifolia occurs in > Panama, Honduras, Costa Rica, Belize, Guatemala and Mexico (and uncommonly > coastal SE US). Mexico is another center of diversity for the genus with > many species native to the various climatic regions. Thad Howard, Dave > Lehmiller and Jim Bauml (he did his PhD on the Mexican species) have > experience with these plants. > These are a little more difficult to cultivate, as replicating their > habitat is difficult at sea level here in humid Florida. > > The three closely related genera once classified as Hymenocallis , > Ismene, Elisena, and Leptochiton , replace Hymenocallis in the Andean > regions. For practical purposes sometimes when referring to hybrids, the > genera Elisena, Ismene, and Leptochiton are recognized under the genus > Hymenocallis in a broad sense. They are distinct groups, not the true > spider lilies however. Meerow and Snijman recognize each group as distinct > genera; together the four genera comprise their tribe Hymenocallideae. The > taxonomy of the group seems in flux continuously. > > Interestingly, the taxa that offset prolifically do not readily set seeds > and the taxa that set seeds well are not typically prolific offsetters. In > some groups, rhizomes may occur in one population while in another of the > same species, some individuals in a population may have rhizome while most > others do not (H. palmeri, H. henryae, etc...). Some species rarely offset, > particularly within the Mexican group. > > Based upon my encounters with the genus in the United States, Hymenocallis > populations most often occur in or on the margins of wetland ecosystems > (marshes, lakes, rivers, forested swamps, wet prairies). Less often they > occur in dry woods (H. galvestonesis), flatwoods (H. henryae), or in > disturbed sites such as pastures and roadside ditches as do, for example, > some populations of H. palmeri and H. galvestonensis (H. ocidentalis var. > eulae) , or on coastal dunes as does H. latifolia var. keyensis (possibly > H. carribeae) on Bahia Honda key in Florida. They are most spectacular when > found blooming on many rivers and spring runs in the Southeast, such as > the Cahaba lilies (Hymenocallis coronaria) on the Cahaba River in Alabama > and the spider lilies (H. rotata) on the Santa Fe River of northern Florida > and its spring runs (H. franklinensis is another spring run spider lily) . > > A few of the southeastern US species are listed as threatened or endangered > and are protected in more than one state at the state level (H. coronaria, > H. godfreyi, H. henryae). > > Spider lilies are commonly cultivated throughout most of their range and > are grown in many tropical parts of the New World. They make excellent cut > flowers, even if short lived. A few of the tropical species hold their > flower for a few days, however. > > Kevin Preuss > St. Petersburg, FL > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Mon Apr 19 08:16:19 2004 Message-Id: <000501c42608$1dd579e0$6600a8c0@Hymenocallis> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW-Part One Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:16:16 -0400 Alan, Thank you for the clarification. Could you please explain what is Psuedostenomesson, how many, which spp.? One thing that we must remember that in classifying spider lilies (true spider lilies, anyway) - the continuum of variation found in that group and the breaking up of species is not clearly defined. Classification is an artificial construct of the mind. Kevin Preuss From miaam@ars-grin.gov Mon Apr 19 09:20:43 2004 Message-Id: <022c01c42612$6f0daad0$344285c7@SHRS.APHIS.USDA.GOV> From: "Alan Meerow" Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW-Part One Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:29:37 -0400 There are 2 spp. of Ismene subg. Pseudostenomesson, I. vargasii and I. morrisonii, which seem to differ largely on the basis of tube length. These are very high elevation green-flowered taxa with flowers that resemble a Clinanthus sp. (formerly Stenomesson in part). For a review see: Meerow, A. W., C. L. Guy, Q-B. Li, and J. R. Clayton. 2002. Phylogeny of the tribe Hymenocallideae (Amaryllidaceae) based on morphology and molecular characters. Ann. Missouri Bot. Gard. 89: 400-413. Alan ----------------------------- Alan W. Meerow, Ph.D., Research Geneticist and Systematist USDA-ARS-SHRS, National Germplasm Repository 13601 Old Cutler Road, Miami, FL 33158 USA voice: (305) 254-3635 fax: (305) 969-6410 email: miaam@ars-grin.gov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin D. Preuss" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Hymenocallis--TOW-Part One > Alan, > Thank you for the clarification. Could you please explain what is > Psuedostenomesson, how many, which spp.? > > One thing that we must remember that in classifying spider lilies (true > spider lilies, anyway) - the continuum of variation found in that group and > the breaking up of species is not clearly defined. Classification is an > artificial construct of the mind. > > Kevin Preuss > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From msittner@mcn.org Mon Apr 19 12:36:51 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040419072648.019a4890@mail.mcn.org> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW--Cultivation Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:31:04 -0700 Hymenocallis--TOW Part 2 Cultivation of Spider Lilies - True spider lilies belong to the genus Hymenocallis. These can be artificially divided into 3 categories (Tropical, Mexican, and southeastern United States) for cultivation purposes. Tropical species are those from the West Indies/Caribbean and also parts of eastern Mexico to Panama and northern South America. These are typically the larger species that offset prolifically, such as H. latifloia, H. carribbeae, H. expansa, H. tubiflora, H. speciosa, etc...These typically prefer large pots (5 gallons or larger) or to be grown in the open ground (if in tropical /subtropical location). No dormancy period is required for these. The plants from the SE US are mostly wetland plants (with the exception of H. occidentalis). Several species are riverine plants (H. rotata, H. franklinensis, H. coronaria...). Others are found in swamps, sloughs, bogs and ditches like H. crassifolia, & H. liriosme. To cultivate these successfully over time, they must be grown in large tubs flooded routinely, or grown in a pond or stream bank. I grow many of mine in my son's old swimming pool and flood it/drain it almost daily. Others are associated with the seasonally flooded prairies (H. godfreyi & H. puntagordensis). Others are linked to the hydricity of pine flatwoods (H. henryae & H. palmeri). These both prefer wet soils that dry out periodically. With the exception of H. puntagordensis and an undescribed species from central Florida, the other 14 SE US species go dormant in the winter and break dormancy before spring. The Mexican species are less often cultivated. Those in southern California and Texas would do better with these species. H. maxamilianii is commonly grown, as is H. acutifolia. There is rich diversity amongst the Mexican species (from petiolate leaves as in H. glauca, H. harrisiana, H. eucharidifolia to lorate, or strap shaped leaves). These are deciduous for a longer period than the other groups. Most Mexican species are just beginning growth in April through early May here in Florida. Perhaps some California and Australian growers could chime in here and let us all know what kind of cycles your plants are on. In order to breed spider lilies, the filament, which holds the anther above, can be removed and used to pollinate other flowers when they are blooming simultaneously. Alternately the anthers may be removed and (pollen) can be stored in a plastic vial in the refrigerator and may be used to pollinate other spider lilies (of the same species or different ones). Kevin Preuss From Ofarrelljp@estudio-ofarrell.com.ar Mon Apr 19 11:14:06 2004 Message-Id: <0281AACFC45940408C0780BED7BD79560F0590@e2kofarrell.estudio-ofarrell.com.ar> From: "O'Farrell, Juan Patricio" Subject: Alberto Castillo Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:14:52 -0300 Dear All: Yesterday I spent my afternoon visiting Alberto Castillo at the hospital and he thought it would be a good idea if I shared my opinion regarding his recovery with all of you. Alberto had a mayor operation with complications, he was unconscious for nearly nine days, and has had since then many studies that show he is recovering well but must take life slowly. I found him very optimistic regarding his future and was hopping that he would be able to go back home by the end of this week. He is still bedridden and he has a scar from neck to navel that has healed well. I will let you all know when he is taken home as from then he will be able to communicate on the computer. Regards Patrick -----Mensaje original----- De: Germán Roitman [mailto:ggroiti@agro.uba.ar] Enviado el: Martes, 13 de Abril de 2004 10:08 Para: Pacific Bulb Society Asunto: [pbs] Alberto Castillo Dear all: I have good news, Alberto Castillo is recovering very well, i have just talked to him by phone, i will go to visit him at the hospital soon. i will keep you posted Germán _______________________________________ Ing. Agr. MSc Germán Roitman mailto:groitman@mail.retina.ar Cátedra de Jardinería FAUBA Av. San Martín 4453. 1417. Buenos Aires Argentina ICQ: 1837762 _______________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Este mensaje es confidencial. Puede contener información amparada por el secreto profesional. Si usted ha recibido este mensaje por error, por favor notifíquenoslo inmediatamente vía e-mail y elimínelo de su sistema. No deberá copiar el mensaje ni divulgar su contenido a nadie. Muchas gracias. This message is confidential. It may also contain information that is privileged or otherwise legally exempt from disclosure. If you have received this message by mistake please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete it from your system. You should neither copy the message nor disclose its contents to anyone. Many thanks. From Pat.Colville@jameshardie.com Mon Apr 19 11:35:17 2004 Message-Id: From: "Pat Colville" Subject: Hippeastrum cybister pic added to the wiki Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:32:00 -0700 I purchased three H. cybister seedlings at the same symposium. They were from Charles Hardman. He has a mature plant and I think these were his own seeds. My seedlings are doing well. One of them is now in bloom but it isn't even the largest of the three. I really like it as it is but, of course, will use all the pollen on crazy experiments. On Behalf Of Douglas Westfall Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 9:32 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Hippeastrum cybister pic added to the wiki > Might I ask if these plants were raised from seed distributed around 4 years > ago (I think originally contributed by Dwain Hicks)? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Den, No, not that I know of. Perhaps from seed that were germinated by Chas. Hardman. I purchased it as a small bulb at a bulb symposium in Los Angeles, California. As it was growing, it developed about ten offsets. Doug > > Regards. > > Den Wilson > Isle of Wight > UK. > Zone 8 (maritime) almost frost-free. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Mon Apr 19 11:32:54 2004 Message-Id: <4083F745.B5D2B22@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: REPLY: Dicentra cucullaria-pink forms Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:59:01 -0700 It will not be in the middle! Unless on one of the islands! Cheers, John E. Bryan DaveKarn@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 18-Apr-04 1:40:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > JFlintoff@aol.com writes: > > > it does occur in Washington in the Columbia River Gorge between Washington > > and Oregon. > > North or South side? > > Dave Karnstedt > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Mon Apr 19 11:56:11 2004 Message-Id: <4083FCBB.5E0971BF@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Alberto Castillo Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:22:19 -0700 Please give my very best wishes to Alberto, a great mind and always sending great information to us all. Cheers. John E. Bryan "O'Farrell, Juan Patricio" wrote: > > Dear All: Yesterday I spent my afternoon visiting Alberto Castillo at the hospital and he thought it would be a good idea if I shared my opinion regarding his recovery with all of you. > > Alberto had a mayor operation with complications, he was unconscious for nearly nine days, and has had since then many studies that show he is recovering well but must take life slowly. I found him very optimistic regarding his future and was hopping that he would be able to go back home by the end of this week. He is still bedridden and he has a scar from neck to navel that has healed well. I will let you all know when he is taken home as from then he will be able to communicate on the computer. > Regards > Patrick > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Germán Roitman [mailto:ggroiti@agro.uba.ar] > Enviado el: Martes, 13 de Abril de 2004 10:08 > Para: Pacific Bulb Society > Asunto: [pbs] Alberto Castillo > > Dear all: > > I have good news, Alberto Castillo is recovering very well, i have just > > talked to him by phone, i will go to visit him at the hospital soon. > > i will keep you posted > > Germán > > _______________________________________ > Ing. Agr. MSc Germán Roitman > mailto:groitman@mail.retina.ar > Cátedra de Jardinería FAUBA > Av. San Martín 4453. 1417. Buenos Aires > Argentina > ICQ: 1837762 > _______________________________________ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Este mensaje es confidencial. Puede contener información amparada por el secreto profesional. > Si usted ha recibido este mensaje por error, por favor notifíquenoslo inmediatamente vía e-mail > y elimínelo de su sistema. No deberá copiar el mensaje ni divulgar su contenido a nadie. > Muchas gracias. > > This message is confidential. It may also contain information that is privileged or > otherwise legally exempt from disclosure. If you have received this message by mistake > please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete it from your system. You should > neither copy the message nor disclose its contents to anyone. > Many thanks. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Theladygardens@aol.com Mon Apr 19 12:33:07 2004 Message-Id: <85.9c2c1dd.2db5593d@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Alberto Castillo Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:33:01 EDT Is there an address we could all have to send get well cards and wishes by mail, maybe even a central address in his country where someone who lives there could gather them and get them to the hospital if we do not want to put his home address on the internet. From msittner@mcn.org Mon Apr 19 12:36:53 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040419085939.00b635a0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Bloom Sequence Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:34:42 -0700 Dear Ken, I am always happy to have people volunteer for new projects on the wiki as at this stage I don't have time to volunteer for any additional tasks myself. When Jane made the wiki Reference page we were going to link it to the individual genus pages with the Reference to use for that genus. She and I have done a few of them, but most are undone as we are both busy. Bloom sequence, although an interesting idea and probably very useful for having a long sequence of blooms, would be a very challenging project. For one thing bloom sequence of the same species varies by environment. I find when I am out hiking every week that my native bulbs (Mendocino-Sonoma Coast) can be found in different habitats in bloom months apart. An area that is dryer and more exposed will often have flowers in bloom before the shadier wetter areas where bloom is often extended. Bulbs grown from my wild populations often bloom much sooner in my containers (sometimes months sooner.) We have often tracked the appearance of Amaryllis belladonna flowers on this list and there is a wide range no doubt influenced by temperatures and rainfall. Roy Sachs was once going to investigate what made the difference or at least look at a couple of factors. I don't know if he did. Bloom time in Oregon for a lot of things will not be the same time as it would be in Southern California in many instances for example. Some of the bulbs I grow are very reliable in when they bloom. Others may have a several month variation from year to year. Leucojum aestivum, a long blooming very satisfactory bulb in my garden, some years is in bloom as early as December. This year it didn't bloom I think until February. Second, the same species that are grown from seeds from different areas in the wild also bloom at different times in the same garden. At least that has been my observation. Triteleia ixioides and T. laxa are two examples. I grow different clones. The former may be in bloom as early as February and as late as June in my garden. When I add information to the wiki I often add bloom time (either the date it is blooming for me) or general information like, "this bulb blooms late winter to spring" for example. I think this is helpful information and encourage others to add this to their text when they add pictures. It is possible, but very cumbersome to figure out when a picture has been added to the wiki, but even if you took the time to figure that out you don't know if it was added when it was blooming or at another time later so this information would be very useful to people using the wiki as a reference. It would probably be possible to plot the bloom sequence of genera with only a couple of species, but something like Gladiolus would be a nightmare. Ken, if you'd like to try doing a favorite genus to see how this might be done, please do and let us know. It might inspire others to do this for other genera. Next week as we discuss the topic of the week (what is blooming now) I expect if very many participate we will see bulbs announced as blooming one place that are long gone somewhere else and haven't opened in other areas. Mary Sue From ggroiti@agro.uba.ar Mon Apr 19 16:16:50 2004 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040419171051.021e5c68@pop3.agro.uba.ar> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n?= Roitman Subject: Alberto Castillo Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:16:40 -0300 Hello All: Alberto has his email full rigth now but i can recieve your cards and send them to me and i will forward them when he is back at home. Best wishes Germán At 01:33 p.m. 19/04/2004, you wrote: >Is there an address we could all have to send get well cards and wishes by >mail, maybe even a central address in his country where someone who lives >there >could gather them and get them to the hospital if we do not want to put his >home address on the internet. >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 09/04/2004 _______________________________________ Ing. Agr. MSc Germán Roitman mailto:groitman@mail.retina.ar Cátedra de Jardinería FAUBA Av. San Martín 4453. 1417. Buenos Aires Argentina ICQ: 1837762 _______________________________________ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 09/04/2004 From eagle85@flash.net Mon Apr 19 18:07:52 2004 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Hippeastrum cybister pic added to the wiki Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:02:10 -0700 Pat ColvilleDoug Westfall Pat.Colville@jameshardie.com11111Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > I purchased three H. cybister seedlings at the same symposium. They > were from Charles Hardman. He has a mature plant and I think these were > his own seeds. Pat, is this the symposium where Charles brought a blooming H. cybister for the auction table? If so, that is the one. Doug From Pat.Colville@jameshardie.com Mon Apr 19 18:15:07 2004 Message-Id: From: "Pat Colville" Subject: Hippeastrum cybister pic added to the wiki Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:11:48 -0700 Yes, he hasn't brought such unusual seedlings since. I saw Charles yesterday and he said his did not bloom this year. He thinks they aren't getting enough sun. I told him mine is growing in semi-shade like the H. papilio. Patty -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Westfall Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 3:02 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Hippeastrum cybister pic added to the wiki Pat ColvilleDoug Westfall Pat.Colville@jameshardie.com11111Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > I purchased three H. cybister seedlings at the same symposium. They > were from Charles Hardman. He has a mature plant and I think these were > his own seeds. Pat, is this the symposium where Charles brought a blooming H. cybister for the auction table? If so, that is the one. Doug _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From eagle85@flash.net Mon Apr 19 19:59:43 2004 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Hippeastrum cybister pic added to the wiki Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:54:00 -0700 Pat ColvilleDoug Westfall Pat.Colville@jameshardie.com11111Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Yes, he hasn't brought such unusual seedlings since. I saw Charles > yesterday and he said his did not bloom this year. He thinks they > aren't getting enough sun. I told him mine is growing in semi-shade > like the H. papilio. > Patty ^^^^^ Mine is growing on the north side of an overhanging, solid roof patio. It gets bright light, but not sun. Doug From msittner@mcn.org Mon Apr 19 23:11:29 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040419194709.00d127c0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: California Monocot book Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:08:46 -0700 Dear All, In September 2002 I wrote about the book that has been in the works for a number of years about California monocots. Publication was delayed. It is now finally available. The title is Wild Lilies, Irises and Grasses: Gardening with California's Monocots. At the time we talked about it before, a number of people were interested in this book and I offered to do a group order. It is coming out in paperback and hardback at the same time so that most of the on-line services are only discounting the paperback, but for more that 25 %. If that is the version that most people would want, it would hardly seem worth my time to do a group order. The amount we'd save by the time I had to mail everything would be similar to what people could get on their own. If however, a number of people were interested in the hard back it might be worth the effort. I'm going to be away on a trip for most of the next month and I wouldn't have time to do this until June. Please write me privately if you are interested in a group order so I can get some idea about this and if so if you'd want the hard back or the paper back. To learn more about the book I include the URL below. There is also a story about it in Pacific Horticulture that arrived today in my mailbox. http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/10044.html People who are eager to get this book right away can find the paperback discounted through buy.com and amazon.com. The hardback isn't discounted, but shipping is free. Mary Sue From leo1010@attglobal.net Tue Apr 20 02:48:33 2004 Message-Id: <40849D88.4050201@attglobal.net> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Hippeastrom seed germination Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:48:24 -0400 While on the subject of floatation for flat black amaryllid seed, here's my experience with Paramongaia and Cyrtanthus. One by one I floated some Paramongaia weberbaueri seed on water. Many molded. Of those that did not mold, many sprouted and then molded. Of those that sprouted and did not mold and then produced green shoots and then were potted up into sandy soil, all molded. So, I wound up with none out of about ten seeds, of which about 6 had actually sprouted. I have success with Hippeastrum hybrids and Cyrtanthus using this method. Too late, my source for Paramongaia seed told me she just plants the seeds in moist soil, and they sprout and grow. I haven't had any trouble with shoots breaking. I use either a tool sold for plucking eyebrows which I also use for plucking hair from my dog's ears (NOT the kind with a pair of long curved jaws, and NO, I DON'T USE THEM ON MY OWN EYEBROWS EVER!) or a surgical clamp. I pick up the seed by the flat winged part, staying well away from the thick embryo. I set the sprout in a slit in sand for Hippeastrum (note it is spelled with a U not an O) and coir for Cyrtanthus. But then I have steady hands and great eyesight. Be sure to wait for the green leaf to be well along before transplanting; I have lost most seeds I transplanted when just the white shoot was showing, even if the shoot had been very big. Leo -- Leo A. Martin Phoenix, Arizona, USA Like cactus and succulents? Central Arizona Cactus and Succulent Society http://www.centralarizonacactus.org From normarlene@charter.net Tue Apr 20 09:01:54 2004 Message-Id: <000501c426d6$2e7fc9c0$6401a8c0@Norm> From: "Norman Mayer" Subject: Garden Festival Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:51:15 -0700 I would like to invite all members and guest to the San Luis Obispo Botanical annual Garden Festival. Check out our web site:slobg.org. The date is May 1st and 2nd. The location is in San Luis Obispo which is on the central coast of California. Norman Mayer Greenhouse Manager From claudesweet@cox.net Tue Apr 20 17:45:50 2004 Message-Id: <40859A08.5040403@cox.net> From: Claude Sweet Subject: viable email address Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:45:44 -0700 Does anyone have an active email address for Michael Mace? mikemace at worldnet.att.net does not seem to work. Please send any response to me at hortventures@cox.net Claude Sweet San Diego, CA From piabinha@yahoo.com Wed Apr 21 10:40:15 2004 Message-Id: <20040421144002.91409.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Recent wiki additions--Lachenalia Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:40:02 -0700 (PDT) i have a question about Lachenalia aloides quadricolor. my plant bloomed the first year that it was purchased (as bulbs). since then, it has produced an enormous quantity of small bulblets but the bulbs do not grow large enough to bloom. i heard the same experience from other growers. any thoughts on this? tsuh yang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 21 11:58:33 2004 Message-Id: <4086A043.6E0A5F6@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Recent wiki additions--Lachenalia Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:24:35 -0700 Dear Tsuh: I think you have two choices. 1 = be patient, 2= Remove the small bulblets and grow them on, each in its own space. In good soil, where they are at the moment the soil may be too tired, not enough ROOM ETC., they will no doubt grow at a greater rate and thus flower earlier than if left with the parent bulb. Cheers, John E. Bryan piaba wrote: > > i have a question about Lachenalia aloides > quadricolor. my plant bloomed the first year that it > was purchased (as bulbs). since then, it has produced > an enormous quantity of small bulblets but the bulbs > do not grow large enough to bloom. i heard the same > experience from other growers. any thoughts on this? > > tsuh yang > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25˘ > http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Wed Apr 21 12:47:44 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040421092445.019304d0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Lachenalia Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:46:13 -0700 Dear Tsuh Yang, Don Journet is offline at the moment or he would surely respond to your question. He wrote a very interesting article on his experiences growing Lachenalia in Australia in the latest BULBS. I have found in growing Lachenalia that a lot, but not all, of the ones I grow split into smaller size bulbs. It is curious looking at the offspring as they are often attached and very irregularly shaped. Others produce tiny bulblets and some at a distance. I grew Lachenalia aloides quadricolor in a raised bed for years and every year it bloomed well for a long time in winter providing a most welcome bright display during dreary weather. Eventually I got rid of it because the leaves were looking possibly virused even though it was continuing to bloom. I usually repot my Lachenalias every year (at least the ones I grow in containers.) It seems to be a genus where some of the bulbs get diseased and that allows me to toss any that look like they are not healthy and repot the rest so they have plenty of room in the medium. This may require an additional pot or disposing of offsets. Since it is a genus with interesting leaves and a long bloom time, interesting flowers, and occasionally wonderful fragrances I am willing to do this. Most of them (if they come up which they don't always) usually rebloom well once they get to a certain size. In Don's article if I remember correctly he said that over time you might have to start over with some of them as they run out of steam. They are easily grown from seed. I finally got seed of L. aloides quadricolor and am going to do just that since it was one of my favorite winter blooming flowers. Another Lachenalia that I am finding is really prolific is L. mutabilis. I've got it planted a couple of places in the ground and it is doing fine. Also I am finding it in other pots so perhaps I need to be more watchful. Another Lachenalia that I admired years ago in African Hill, UC Botanical Garden, Berkeley, is L. contaminata. I wasn't very successful with my attempts to mimic this in my original raised beds as it was erratic. But I have it in quite a few pots blooming right now (labeled unknown Allium? since the bulbs looked like some of my Allium bulbs) as well as in containers named in its own right. Some of the now identified bulbs are going in the ground next year and I'll try again with it in the garden. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Wed Apr 21 13:32:40 2004 Message-Id: <001301c427c6$a1b63fa0$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW--bloom sequence Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:32:32 -0400 Hymenocallis bloom sequence (here in my yard at St. Pete, FL) for SE US species so far this season. is as follows: Feb. - Hymenocallis from St. Marks, FL (possibly H. crassifolia), but looks like a hybrid between H. godfreyi and H. rotata. Late Feb/Early March - Hymenocallis godfreyi. March- Hym. rotata April - H. franklinensis and H. duvalensis Hym. "caroliniana" from Jim Zimmeraman is about to bloom, too. But the name of this plant is invalid. Hymenocallis caroliniana = Pancratium maritimum. I am uncertain of the ID of this plant. Best, Kevin Preuss From totototo@pacificcoast.net Sun Apr 18 14:39:50 2004 Message-Id: <200404181839.i3IIdkQC023210@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Dicentra cucullaria - pink forms Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:42:12 -800 Anybody know how many pink forms of Dicentra cucullaria have been found? How common are pink forms in wild populations? And is anyone familiar with the authentic form of 'Pittsburgh', the one named pink D.c.? What, if anything, distinguishes it from other pink forms? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From msittner@mcn.org Thu Apr 22 02:08:49 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040421225424.01935e40@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 23:07:34 -0700 Dear All, I don't grow any species in this genus. The closest is an Ismene that I've been growing for a long time that seemed happier in Stockton than it is in coastal Northern California. Lee Poulsen and Bill Dijk obviously grow Hymenocallis as they have pictures on our wiki Hymenocallis page. Kevin has really covered the subject well which may be why not many people are contributing to this topic. But I think it is always a bit discouraging to the person who does the introduction if there aren't questions or comments. Please anyone who grows Hymenocallis tells us where you live and which ones you have found you can grow successfully where you live. Kevin, do you have blooms from Hymenocallis for most of the year or primarily spring into summer? This doesn't sound like a plant for those in Northern California or the Pacific Northwest. Bill Dijk can grow everything in New Zealand however. Are any of the members of this group who live in Texas growing these or anyone from the Southern United States? And how about members of our list from Australia? Lee, please tell us about the ones you grow. Mary Sue From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Thu Apr 22 04:37:20 2004 Message-Id: <001901c42845$05504e60$6600a8c0@Hymenocallis> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:37:15 -0400 I know that there are many members who grow at least a few species. Yes, the genus provides blooms from Feb to Nov. The Mexican species are the easier ones for most to try. The tropical and SE US spp. are more difficult to grow, that is they need more attention. The Mexican species really ought to do well in California to Texas, as well as Australia and the Med. regions. Dave Lehmiller has distributed many taxa via the IBS BX. I think if the plants were made more available bulb enthusiasts would really enjoy these. While they may become slightly untidy in the autumn, they are excellent in the garden. Many people are easily hooked on this genus once they flower a few spider lilies! The variations in floral scents is amazing, becoming strongest in the evening. A collection of 7-8 species can provide spider lily blooms from early Spring through late Autumn. Hymenocallis tubiflora flowers sporadically from May through November. The tropical ones flower more prolifically than the Mexican ones, which are typically limited to one bloom /year. If you have a water garden, many of the US species will bloom in the Spring. Kevin Preuss Ismenes and Leptochiton are breaking dormancy now and will be flowering soon. From miaam@ars-grin.gov Thu Apr 22 07:44:27 2004 Message-Id: <002b01c42860$787dfa70$344285c7@SHRS.APHIS.USDA.GOV> From: "Alan Meerow" Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:53:47 -0400 We should mention how susceptible to Cercospora leaf spot they are - esp. the West Indian and many Mexican species. Interestingly, H. glauca never gets infected. Alan ----------------------------- Alan W. Meerow, Ph.D., Research Geneticist and Systematist USDA-ARS-SHRS, National Germplasm Repository 13601 Old Cutler Road, Miami, FL 33158 USA voice: (305) 254-3635 fax: (305) 969-6410 email: miaam@ars-grin.gov From roberth6@mac.com Thu Apr 22 08:45:55 2004 Message-Id: <61C8B662-945A-11D8-8F8A-0003938EDBFA@mac.com> From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:41:31 +1000 Hi all, Thanks to Kevin for the great introduction. > And how about members of our list from Australia? I have grown Hymenocallis harrisiana for quite a few years and it is a very successful bulb in the open garden, flowering and offsetting freely. H littoralis grows and offsets reasonably well but has not flowered for me, although those in warmer parts of Australia seem to flower it easily. I am now trying some bulbs in the open garden and their growth is stronger so perhaps their is future hope of flowers. Happily I have some strongly growing seedlings of H glauca, howardii and maximillianii from the IBS distribution. Ismene narcissiflora , longipetala and hybrids x Festalis and Sulphur Queen grow and flower well in pots or the garden. All these bulbs appear in late spring and are in leaf until late autumn frost takes them out. Cheers, Rob in Tasmania Temperate Marine Climate Zone 9 equivalent From jshields104@insightbb.com Thu Apr 22 08:58:10 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040422072311.02122250@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:55:48 -0500 Hi folks, I've been growing Hymenocallis off and on for 25 years here in central Indiana. Needless to say, most of them have been grown in pots, but...... For years I grew the Ismene types and the Mexican Hymenocallis in the garden in summer and dug them and stored dry indoors in winter. They flourished! but I didn't, as it got to be a real chore handling the digging in Fall and the planting in Spring. There was great increase, too. However, I gave up that method years ago. I have assembled a nice collection of Hymenocallis occidentalis, a.k.a. H. galvestonensis and H. caroliniana. They are quite hardy outdoors in the ground all year round here. Last summer, I tried another experiment: I planted Hymenocallis liriosme outdoors in the ground. That bulb is coming up! I'm fairly confident that it is really H. liriosme, since Thad Howard got it for me from the wild. The outdoors bulb was planted in a very protected spot, a few feet from the south end of my greenhouse. Still, it survived the winter! Both liriosme and occidentalis are big plants. I have a liriosme-like plant that was originally collected from a river bank in southern Louisiana and was then grown on a mountain-top in Arkansas (USDA zone 6), although not by me in either case. This one is blooming now in the greenhouse. I'm really not sure what it is; I grow it only in pots here, under my number JES-664. I am interested in the smaller Mexican species, since they have a pronounced dormant season in winter, don't take up a lot of space, and many of them bloom reliably in post. So far, I have HH. glauca, harrisiana ex hort, cf. phalangides, eucharidifolia, sonorensis, lehmilleri, and ? woelfleana. I recently received small bulbs of durangoensis, azteciana, and a new still-unnamed species collected by Thad Howard in 1994. Mexican but neither small nor deciduous is H. acutifolia. This one wants to grow in water. I keep the pots sitting in saucers all year round, filled with water in summer but more often dry in winter. I never leave the pots completely dry, not even in winter. This one grows in rivers in southern Mexico. Last year, the Hymeno SIG shared some Florida species. I am trying to grow HH. palmeri, puntagordensis, henryae, littoralis, and rotata. They came through the winter under the benches in the clivia greenhouse and are now shooting green foliage up. A Caribbean member of the Hymeno SIG shared HH. caribaea, expansa, and latifolia. These are BIG plants! I have them in 5-gallon containers. These seem to have come through the winter OK, but in years past I had trouble getting Caribaea Group species through the winter in the greenhouse. They are really tropical species. I have a pot of Leptochiton quitoensis that are now at bloom size. A friend collected these from a farm in Ecuador some years ago, and shared a few small offsets or seedlings with me. They are small plants with relatively huge staminal cups on the flowers. They have a long winter dormancy when they are kept dry but warm, under a bench in the clivia greenhouse I started a Hymenocallis Species Interest Group last year. We have about 14 members at present; and we use a CC: e-mail list, not a Yahoo group. Anyone interested should contact me privately at to be added to the list. Please include a short summary of your activities with Hymenocallis. Best regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From vikingdoc@earthlink.net Thu Apr 22 11:34:18 2004 Message-Id: <410-220044422153436310@earthlink.net> From: "Kathy Stokmanis" Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:34:36 -0700 The only one I have grown is Ismene 'Sulpher Queen', in a pot here in Northern California, though I recently planted Hymenocallis variegata. I pull it out of the pot and store it dry during the winter. I have enough offsets to plant one in the ground but I worry that our wet winters will do it in. I love it. The fragrance is very nice. I had read that Hymenocallis can rebloom but I have not attempted to do so with Sulpher Queen. Does anyone know if this is one that can rebloom? Also, does anyone know the correct botanical name for Ismene 'Sulpher Queen' and Hymenocallis variegata or can you direct me to a book that would provide geographical and species information? Kathy Stokmanis Northern California, zone 8/9, where both of the above mentioned bulbs were recently planted and have sprouted leaves. From arlen.jose@verizon.net Thu Apr 22 12:14:18 2004 Message-Id: From: "arlen jose" Subject: [PBS] Hymenocallis--TOW Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:13:55 -0400 Happy Spring All, Here in Cambridge, MA I grow Ismene Narcissiflorus & Festalis in the ground and treat them like Dahlias and Gladiolus, dug up and stored dry through the winter. I have been doing this for very many years and they produce an incredible number of offsets, so much so that they've become pass along plants in my neighborhood. Has anyone else in the Zone 6 area had the same experience? Warm Regards, Fred Biasella Cambridge (Boston) MA UDSA Zone 6b From pcamusa@hotmail.com Thu Apr 22 12:39:51 2004 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:39:49 -0400 This TOW has been very helpful- I have found it difficult sometimes to sort out information on Hymenocallis to find the drought tolerant, summer rainfall species. The out islands of the northern Bahamas have two 'endemic' Hymenocallis (that I've seen). I hesitate on the endemic status of these because although I've seen one them frequently in the wild, the area has been settled for quite a while and I keep second-guessing myself as to the species. One is relatively large-bulbed (H. arenicola?) and grows in the coral sand dunes right up to the storm line. The bulbs are oten deeply buried. It does not divide and is remarkable tolerant of salt and the winter drought. It is interesting to observe this lily growing out of the debris line from past hurricanes on some of the uninhabited shorelines. Its not clear how far these plants have been carried by the storms. The second species grows more inland, offsets freely and has smaller, narrower, more upright leaves that come to a distinct point. The flowers are correspondingly smaller and have a relatively small corolla. I've never observed this species on the dunes and its usually associated with human habitation- often with abandoned settlements. Virtually all plants exhibit some degree of infection (Cercospora?) as they begin to go dormant during the dry season although plants on the dunes appear to be much less susceptible. Thanks for the useful discussion, Phil Andrews _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From angelopalm69@inwind.it Thu Apr 22 14:57:24 2004 Message-Id: <001a01c4289b$212f33c0$079f623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Hymenocallis - TOW Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:53:05 +0200 I do grow a few here in zone 9b, with mixed results. There's a species (presumably?) quite common in Sicily (zone 10) , which is evergreen and it should be 'Tropical Giant' or caribaea/latifolia. Mine got a bit of cold damage this winte but seems fine so far. No problem for the hybrids x festalis and Sulphur Queen, which I have permanently in the ground. They need good waterings in summer, or the flowers will abort for drought. I have two H. x festalis, one which makes a lot of offsett but few flowers and one which flowers reliably every year. This last I got as 'Zwanenburg', said to be a better clone. From one year I have harrisiana, longipetala and 'Advance', but in pots and overwintered. They should flower this summer, I wish. Oh, BTW, it's by far easier to grow the 'Mediterranean spider lily' , that is Pancratium maritimum, for obvious reasons :-) Angelo Porcelli south of Italy From wlp@Radar-Sci.Jpl.Nasa.Gov Thu Apr 22 20:15:54 2004 Message-Id: <528EAB09-94BB-11D8-84A8-003065EFBD84@radar-sci.jpl.nasa.gov> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:15:27 -0700 I only grow a few Hymenocallis: H. sonorensis, H. eucharidifolia which is new for me, and a couple of species that aren't named. Plus, I grow the two hybrids that are always sold by the regular nurseries, which might be Ismenes rather than Hymenocallis (x festalis and Sulphur Queen). Those two are carefree growers for me. And I now would like to get H. liriosme now that I've seen it. There is a tropical type that grows in a lot of neighborhoods back home in Austin, TX that is a passalong plant. But it must be fairly hardy since it survives Zone 8b winters all the time. However, they become very large plants. I love the scent which is probably why most people grow them, but I don't really like the floppiness of their petals, nor the size of the plant. But they seem to be related to many of the ones I've seen planted in virtually all the tropical countries I've visited. I currently don't have a clue how to distinguish most of the various species and maybe that's why I haven't been such a big fan of them. Plus, the knowing the entire genus reminds me of trying to know the entire genus of Hippeastrum or of Rhodophiala. Things don't seem clear cut as to the species names let alone the genus (Ismene vs. Hymenocallis), there are lots and lots of species, and there are multiple different climate regimes they come from and you have to know which in order to grow some of them successfully. Plus, there doesn't seem to be a good comprehensive reference for any of them that is easily available to the ordinary gardener. However, this hasn't stopped me from collecting too many Hippeastrum or from attempting to collect too many Rhodophiala. So maybe I should get into them more... --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Thu Apr 22 20:16:06 2004 Message-Id: <5F38EE64-94BB-11D8-84A8-003065EFBD84@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:15:48 -0700 I only grow a few Hymenocallis: H. sonorensis, H. eucharidifolia which is new for me, and a couple of species that aren't named. Plus, I grow the two hybrids that are always sold by the regular nurseries, which might be Ismenes rather than Hymenocallis (x festalis and Sulphur Queen). Those two are carefree growers for me. And I now would like to get H. liriosme now that I've seen it. There is a tropical type that grows in a lot of neighborhoods back home in Austin, TX that is a passalong plant. But it must be fairly hardy since it survives Zone 8b winters all the time. However, they become very large plants. I love the scent which is probably why most people grow them, but I don't really like the floppiness of their petals, nor the size of the plant. But they seem to be related to many of the ones I've seen planted in virtually all the tropical countries I've visited. I currently don't have a clue how to distinguish most of the various species and maybe that's why I haven't been such a big fan of them. Plus, the knowing the entire genus reminds me of trying to know the entire genus of Hippeastrum or of Rhodophiala. Things don't seem clear cut as to the species names let alone the genus (Ismene vs. Hymenocallis), there are lots and lots of species, and there are multiple different climate regimes they come from and you have to know which in order to grow some of them successfully. Plus, there doesn't seem to be a good comprehensive reference for any of them that is easily available to the ordinary gardener. However, this hasn't stopped me from collecting too many Hippeastrum or from attempting to collect too many Rhodophiala. So maybe I should get into them more... --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From dejager@bulbargence.com Fri Apr 23 06:24:06 2004 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:21:17 +0200 Dear Lee, I probably missed out somewhere. Can you tell me please the difference between Ismene and Hymenocallis. Regards Lauw le 23/04/04 2:15, Lee Poulsen à wlp@Radar-Sci.Jpl.Nasa.Gov a écrit : > Plus, I grow > the two hybrids that are always sold by the regular nurseries, which > might be Ismenes rather than Hymenocallis (x festalis and Sulphur Queen). Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence Mas d'Argence 30300 Fourques France tel 31(0)466 016 519 fax 0466 011 245 http://www.bulbargence.com From miaam@ars-grin.gov Fri Apr 23 07:02:33 2004 Message-Id: <001601c42923$ca42b4e0$344285c7@SHRS.APHIS.USDA.GOV> From: "Alan Meerow" Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:11:56 -0400 Lauw, Ismene: leaf sheaths forming a prolonged pseudostem, flowers declinate to pendulous, staminal cup usually striped green within along the filamental trace, ovules 2-4 per locule; endemic to Central Andes of Ecuador, Peru and Bolivia. Hymenocallis: leaves never forming a prolonged pseudostem, flowers sub-erect to erect, staminal cup never striped green within, ovules 2-10 per locule, mostly absent from South America (natively in northern S. Amer only and never in the Andes). Alan ----------------------------- Alan W. Meerow, Ph.D., Research Geneticist and Systematist USDA-ARS-SHRS, National Germplasm Repository 13601 Old Cutler Road, Miami, FL 33158 USA voice: (305) 254-3635 fax: (305) 969-6410 email: miaam@ars-grin.gov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lauw de Jager" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 6:21 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Hymenocallis--TOW > Dear Lee, > I probably missed out somewhere. Can you tell me please the difference > between Ismene and Hymenocallis. > > Regards Lauw > > le 23/04/04 2:15, Lee Poulsen à wlp@Radar-Sci.Jpl.Nasa.Gov a écrit : > > > Plus, I grow > > the two hybrids that are always sold by the regular nurseries, which > > might be Ismenes rather than Hymenocallis (x festalis and Sulphur Queen). > > Lauw de Jager > Bulb'Argence > Mas d'Argence > 30300 Fourques France > tel 31(0)466 016 519 fax 0466 011 245 > http://www.bulbargence.com > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Fri Apr 23 12:10:19 2004 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 09:10:11 -0700 Thanks, Alan. I'm glad you spotted Lauw's question and answered it, since I didn't know either. Is there a book or website that lists all the currently accepted names for both Hymenocallis and Ismene? Not knowing where all these plants originate from, should H. x festalis and H. x 'Sulphur Queen' be labelled Ismene x festalis and I. x 'Sulphur Queen'? Also, I remembered I have a couple of seedlings of Hymenocallis amancaes. Is that now Ismene amancaes? ...Patiently waiting for Alan M., Kevin P., and their colleagues to write the definitive book on South American geophytes à la The Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs by John Manning, Peter Goldblatt, Dee Snijman, ;-) --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 On Apr 23, 2004, at 4:11 AM, Alan Meerow wrote: > Lauw, > > Ismene: > Hymenocallis: > From: "Lauw de Jager" >> Dear Lee, >> I probably missed out somewhere. Can you tell me please the >> difference >> between Ismene and Hymenocallis. >> le 23/04/04 2:15, Lee Poulsen a écrit : >> >>> Plus, I grow >>> the two hybrids that are always sold by the regular nurseries, which >>> might be Ismenes rather than Hymenocallis (x festalis and Sulphur > Queen). From jshields104@insightbb.com Fri Apr 23 13:29:41 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040423122737.02049d50@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:29:36 -0500 Alan et al., At 09:10 AM 4/23/2004 -0700, Lee wrote: >....... >...Patiently waiting for Alan M., Kevin P., and their colleagues to write >the definitive book on South American geophytes à la The Color >Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs by John Manning, Peter Goldblatt, Dee Snijman, >;-) >--Lee Poulsen >Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 and I am waiting, too, but not so patiently! Lee picked you a good model to emulate. Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From piabinha@yahoo.com Fri Apr 23 18:52:23 2004 Message-Id: <20040423225219.56981.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Lachenalia Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:52:19 -0700 (PDT) thanks, mary sue. i have a question: what does it mean for the bulb to be diseased? i obviously grow very differently since they are indoors in a pot and i have not repotted so i haven't looked at the bulbs. perhaps it's just not something worth growing indoors? tsuh yang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Sat Apr 24 09:25:46 2004 Message-Id: <001a01c429ff$98826c20$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:25:21 -0400 Phil - This seems to be the case in the West Indes and Meso America - one grows along the coast and the other is more riparian. Typically H. carribbeae occurs on the island while latifolia gows on the coastline of the Gulf dwn into Central America beaches. I've yet to figure out what H. expansa is ( I think this one lacks a neck). H. aerenicola I am not that familiar with. (mine has a neck and 3 offsets). The other plant you have could be H. expansa as I have heard of this occurring on one end of an island while H. carribeae formed large colonies on the other side of the isalnd. Kevin Preuss > The out islands of the northern Bahamas have two 'endemic' Hymenocallis > (that I've seen). I hesitate on the endemic status of these because although > I've seen one them frequently in the wild, the area has been settled for > quite a while and I keep second-guessing myself as to the species. One is > relatively large-bulbed (H. arenicola?) and grows in the coral sand dunes > right up to the storm line. The bulbs are oten deeply buried. It does not > divide and is remarkable tolerant of salt and the winter drought. It is > interesting to observe this lily growing out of the debris line from past > hurricanes on some of the uninhabited shorelines. Its not clear how far > these plants have been carried by the storms. > The second species grows more inland, offsets freely and has smaller, > narrower, more upright leaves that come to a distinct point. The flowers > are correspondingly smaller and have a relatively small corolla. I've > never observed this species on the dunes and its usually associated with > human habitation- often with abandoned settlements. > Virtually all plants exhibit some degree of infection (Cercospora?) as they > begin to go dormant during the dry season although plants on the dunes > appear to be much less susceptible. > Thanks for the useful discussion, > Phil Andrews > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page - FREE > download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Sun Apr 25 09:52:46 2004 Message-Id: <001501c42acc$77c4d5e0$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 09:51:53 -0400 This weekend has been a good one for spider lily blooms here. Right now H. rotata, H. crassifolia, H. henryae, H. duvalensis, and H. liriosme (labled as H. caroliniana) are all blooming. Of course my 35 mm camera is out of order and I am waiting to buy a digital. Jim Shields, the plant you gave me from LA, a riverivne plant, looks like Jim Zimmerman's H. caroliniana, which looks to me like H. liriosme, with a yellow center and long tepals - H. coronaria is from rivers in LA and AL to SC and has yellow centers, but tepals are short. This is not H. occidentalis (Howard suggests H. caroliniana = H. occidentalis, which is in accurate since occidentalis is vailid and H. caroliniana refers to Pancratium maritimum)... Thad Howard in BULBS for Warm Climates suggests that H. choctawensis might be a syn for liriosme. This is incorrect, as they are not the same species as anyone who has sen both would understand. That is not to say that at some point in LA there isn't introgression and possible hybridization between these two. This seems to be the case where H. rotata and H. godfreyi meet up Wakulla Cnty, FL where hybrid swarms are evidemt. One would go crazy trying to sort out colonies of the two in that vicinity (unless on the spring runs, those are rotata, and those in the prairie marshes are H. godfreyi but in the streams, creeks, sloughsand ditches there are hybrids. I wonder if this is what Herbert described as H. crassifolia in the 1800's from St. Mark's, FL???? Thanks to all for letting me ramble on here. As you can tell this is a fun genus for me. Best, Kevin Preuss From jshields104@insightbb.com Sun Apr 25 10:51:04 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040425093312.02041228@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 09:50:59 -0500 Hi Kevin and all, The Louisiana riverine plant, my #664, is finishing blooming just now. The H. liriosme from coastal Texas have not bloomed yet, although they are in the same greenhouse. I tried self-pollinating the #664; maybe I'll get a few seeds -- sometimes I do, sometimes I don't, with #664. The foliage of #664 is thinner than that of the Texas liriosme. Last summer, the Texas liriosme bloomed in mid-summer. I'm waiting to see when it blooms this year. As noted, one bulb of the Texas liriosme survived the winter here outdoors in the ground -- and very protected. I had assumed that #664 was liriosme, until I saw the plants Thad sent me as liriosme. Now I am a bit more skeptical about that identity. It may simply be a local Louisiana variant of liriosme. At 09:51 AM 4/25/2004 -0400, you wrote: >........... >Jim Shields, the plant you gave me from LA, a riverivne plant, looks like >Jim Zimmerman's H. caroliniana, which looks to me like H. liriosme, with a >yellow center and long tepals - H. coronaria is from rivers in LA and AL to >SC and has yellow centers, but tepals are short. This is not H. >occidentalis (Howard suggests H. caroliniana = H. occidentalis, which is in >accurate since occidentalis is vailid and H. caroliniana refers to >Pancratium maritimum)... Most of what is sold as H. caroliniana is actually H. occidentalis. The name occidentalis also seems to cover what Thad Howard refers to as galvestonensis. I have not tested the Louisiana "galvestonensis" (occidentalis) outdoors in the ground yet. All the other accessions I have of occidentalis seem to be hardy here in the ground. Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana >Thad Howard in BULBS for Warm Climates suggests that H. choctawensis might >be a syn for liriosme. This is incorrect, as they are not the same species >as anyone who has sen both would understand. That is not to say that at >some point in LA there isn't introgression and possible hybridization >between these two. >............. >Kevin Preuss ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Sun Apr 25 11:54:16 2004 Message-Id: <001d01c42add$707b8a20$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 11:53:22 -0400 Jim, I, too have a one from the western most part of liriosme's range (Dewitt Cnty, TX) that is different. It has a neck and is 2-ranked, whereas the other almost looks like a crinum at the base. Of course the one from Texas has not flowered. Kevin Preuss From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sun Apr 25 13:42:32 2004 Message-Id: <80.a388db7.2dbd5284@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: more on Hymenocallis Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 13:42:28 EDT Hi, I owe some of you seeds or bulbs from Texas plants. I have not forgotten, but am in the middle of a very busy spring and am still tracking down populations from southeast Texas. My early plants have finished blooming (the small form), whereas the large form plants are just in the middle of their bloom. If it ever dries out a bit I plan to do some seed gathering from wild populations. The most southerly plants that I have (Texas plants) are from Hog Bayou in Calhoun County. I don't yet have germplasm from populations north of Cleveland, TX, but hope to travel to Palestine, TX this spring and collect seed. Everything I've found within 100 miles of Houston has a dab of yellow in the center of the flower, and if I take the time to dig down the bulbs are big (duck egg-sized), and have dark skins--almost black. But the populations are variable in terms of when they bloom, flower size, and overall plant size. Some start as early as March 1, whereas other populations don't get going till 3-4 weeks later even though they are situated half a climate zone warmer (9b vs. 9a). These southeast Texas plants are quite adaptable. They are willing to grow in roadside ditches and even tolerate roadside mowing. So, while their natural habitat is slowly going away, I don't think the species will be lost. The population near my home is due for extinction soon when a 2-lane road is widened, but perhaps it too can survive here and there in ditches and manmade low areas. They do fine in regular gardens but I think they must need seasonal wetness to successfully reproduce in the wild. I'm still looking for Hymenocallis galvestonensis seeds if anyone has some to spare this year. I've never seen that plant in the wild, I guess I just don't know where to look. Cordially, Joe, Conroe TX, lots of rain forecast this week From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Sun Apr 25 20:15:29 2004 Message-Id: <001401c42b23$9410df80$6600a8c0@Hymenocallis> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: more on Hymenocallis Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 20:15:26 -0400 Thanks everyone for the participation and reading. This was a good response! All indications point towards a rapidly evovling group here in the SE US and all this information shared is a greater wealth than any one source, by far! Kevin Preuss From pcamusa@hotmail.com Sun Apr 25 21:02:40 2004 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: Hymenocallis--TOW Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:02:36 -0400 Kevin- Thanks for the information. A synonym for H. arenicola is H. declinata. Described in Flora of the Bahama Archipelago (Correll) as Bulb large. Leaves basal, erect spreading; blades fleshy, smooth, dark-green, 4-6 dm long, 4-6 cm wide, etc. Scape almost equalling the leaves. Gracts large, scarious, ovate to lanceolate, 3-6 cm long, 1-2.5 cm wide. Flowers 7 - 13 in sessile umbel, white, fragrant;tube filiform, rarely longer than 10 cm. I have a picture somewhere that I will post when I find it. Interesting that H. expansa and H. carribae are not listed in the Flora, only arenicola, lattifolia (caymenensis), and speciosa. Synonyms? Ah well, this discussion has been a great help in getting started on the IDs. Thanks, Phil Andrews >From: "Kevin D. Preuss" <hyline@tampabay.rr.com> >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >Subject: Re: [pbs] Hymenocallis--TOW >Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:25:21 -0400 > >Phil - >This seems to be the case in the West Indes and Meso America - one grows >along the coast and the other is more riparian. >Typically H. carribbeae occurs on the island while latifolia gows on the >coastline of the Gulf dwn into Central America beaches. >I've yet to figure out what H. expansa is ( I think this one lacks a neck). >H. aerenicola I am not that familiar with. (mine has a neck and 3 offsets). >The other plant you have could be H. expansa as I have heard of this >occurring on one end of an island while H. carribeae formed large colonies >on the other side of the isalnd. > >Kevin Preuss > > > The out islands of the northern Bahamas have two 'endemic' Hymenocallis > > (that I've seen). I hesitate on the endemic status of these because >although > > I've seen one them frequently in the wild, the area has been settled for > > quite a while and I keep second-guessing myself as to the species. One is > > relatively large-bulbed (H. arenicola?) and grows in the coral sand dunes > > right up to the storm line. The bulbs are oten deeply buried. It does >not > > divide and is remarkable tolerant of salt and the winter drought. It is > > interesting to observe this lily growing out of the debris line from past > > hurricanes on some of the uninhabited shorelines. Its not clear how far > > these plants have been carried by the storms. > > The second species grows more inland, offsets freely and has smaller, > > narrower, more upright leaves that come to a distinct point. The flowers > > are correspondingly smaller and have a relatively small corolla. I've > > never observed this species on the dunes and its usually associated with > > human habitation- often with abandoned settlements. > > Virtually all plants exhibit some degree of infection (Cercospora?) as >they > > begin to go dormant during the dry season although plants on the dunes > > appear to be much less susceptible. > > Thanks for the useful discussion, > > Phil Andrews > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page - FREE > > download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _________________________________________________________________ Test your ‘Travel Quotient’ and get the chance to win your dream trip! http://travel.msn.com From scamp@earthlink.net Sun Apr 25 23:54:07 2004 Message-Id: <410-22004412635412885@earthlink.net> From: "Christine Council" Subject: more on Hymenocallis Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 23:54:12 -0400 Hello: I am new to the group, I can't remember the date I noticed this fine group of people on the net. I am trying to learn identification of the various plants and also would like to have Oxalis (main) bulbs or seeds or what ever. I have nothing to trade but am willing to pay for odd, rare or exotic plants; my love is of course the beautiful, unpredictable Oxalis. Perhaps it is not unpredictable to you learned folks but so far it has been an experience for me. I'm looking for the Oxalis that resembles a fern. If anyone has information about this unusual plant please the information it to my attention. Thanks to all of you who have been unselfish with your knowledge and time; perhaps one day I will know what I am doing. I just love wild flowers or is it that they love me. Bye all. Chris > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 4/25/2004 1:42:35 PM > Subject: [pbs] more on Hymenocallis > > Hi, > > I owe some of you seeds or bulbs from Texas plants. I have not forgotten, > but am in the middle of a very busy spring and am still tracking down > populations from southeast Texas. > > My early plants have finished blooming (the small form), whereas the large > form plants are just in the middle of their bloom. If it ever dries out a bit I > plan to do some seed gathering from wild populations. The most southerly > plants that I have (Texas plants) are from Hog Bayou in Calhoun County. I don't > yet have germplasm from populations north of Cleveland, TX, but hope to travel > to Palestine, TX this spring and collect seed. > > Everything I've found within 100 miles of Houston has a dab of yellow in the > center of the flower, and if I take the time to dig down the bulbs are big > (duck egg-sized), and have dark skins--almost black. But the populations are > variable in terms of when they bloom, flower size, and overall plant size. Some > start as early as March 1, whereas other populations don't get going till 3-4 > weeks later even though they are situated half a climate zone warmer (9b vs. > 9a). > > These southeast Texas plants are quite adaptable. They are willing to grow > in roadside ditches and even tolerate roadside mowing. So, while their natural > habitat is slowly going away, I don't think the species will be lost. The > population near my home is due for extinction soon when a 2-lane road is > widened, but perhaps it too can survive here and there in ditches and manmade low > areas. They do fine in regular gardens but I think they must need seasonal > wetness to successfully reproduce in the wild. > > I'm still looking for Hymenocallis galvestonensis seeds if anyone has some to > spare this year. I've never seen that plant in the wild, I guess I just > don't know where to look. > > > Cordially, > > Joe, Conroe TX, lots of rain forecast this week > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Mon Apr 26 00:16:07 2004 Message-Id: <000e01c42b45$2e4de090$58c279a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Oxalis Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:15:59 -0700 Hi Christine: The species with ferny leaves are as follows: Oxalis glabra, O. versicolor, O. goniorhiza, O. polyphylla and O. polyphylla var. heptaphylla. I am sure there are more, but those are the ones I can think of at this moment. Seed of Oxalis is not usually available, since many species very rarely set seed, and seed is usually very short-lived. Diana > Hello: > I am new to the group, I can't remember the date I noticed this fine group > of people > on the net. I am trying to learn identification of the various plants and > also > would like to have Oxalis (main) bulbs or seeds or what ever. I have > nothing to > trade but am willing to pay for odd, rare or exotic plants; my love is of > course > the beautiful, unpredictable Oxalis. Perhaps it is not unpredictable to > you learned > folks but so far it has been an experience for me. I'm looking for the > Oxalis > that resembles a fern. If anyone has information about this unusual plant > please the information it to my attention. > > Thanks to all of you who have been unselfish with your knowledge and time; > perhaps > one day I will know what I am doing. I just love wild flowers or is it that > they > love me. > > Bye all. > Chris > > > > [Original Message] > > From: > > To: > > Date: 4/25/2004 1:42:35 PM > > Subject: [pbs] more on Hymenocallis > > > > Hi, > > > > I owe some of you seeds or bulbs from Texas plants. I have not > forgotten, > > but am in the middle of a very busy spring and am still tracking down > > populations from southeast Texas. > > > > My early plants have finished blooming (the small form), whereas the > large > > form plants are just in the middle of their bloom. If it ever dries out > a bit I > > plan to do some seed gathering from wild populations. The most southerly > > plants that I have (Texas plants) are from Hog Bayou in Calhoun County. > I don't > > yet have germplasm from populations north of Cleveland, TX, but hope to > travel > > to Palestine, TX this spring and collect seed. > > > > Everything I've found within 100 miles of Houston has a dab of yellow in > the > > center of the flower, and if I take the time to dig down the bulbs are > big > > (duck egg-sized), and have dark skins--almost black. But the populations > are > > variable in terms of when they bloom, flower size, and overall plant > size. Some > > start as early as March 1, whereas other populations don't get going till > 3-4 > > weeks later even though they are situated half a climate zone warmer (9b > vs. > > 9a). > > > > These southeast Texas plants are quite adaptable. They are willing to > grow > > in roadside ditches and even tolerate roadside mowing. So, while their > natural > > habitat is slowly going away, I don't think the species will be lost. > The > > population near my home is due for extinction soon when a 2-lane road is > > widened, but perhaps it too can survive here and there in ditches and > manmade low > > areas. They do fine in regular gardens but I think they must need > seasonal > > wetness to successfully reproduce in the wild. > > > > I'm still looking for Hymenocallis galvestonensis seeds if anyone has > some to > > spare this year. I've never seen that plant in the wild, I guess I just > > don't know where to look. > > > > > > Cordially, > > > > Joe, Conroe TX, lots of rain forecast this week > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Mon Apr 26 09:39:03 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040426234544.01432100@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Fern-like Oxalis Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:45:44 +1000 At 09:15 25/04/04 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Christine: > >The species with ferny leaves are as follows: > >Oxalis glabra, O. versicolor, O. goniorhiza, O. polyphylla and O. polyphylla >var. heptaphylla. I am sure there are more, but those are the ones I can >think of at this moment. > Diane and Christine, I'd like to add Oxalis palmifrons to that list as well. It's leaves look pretty exactly like a "basic" fern or pal frond and are just SO un-oxalis like. I just love it and enjoy it every year, although I am still to flower it unfortunately. It and O. polyphylla var heptaphylla are the strangest I have so far come across in the leaf department, but I'd call palmifrons the one that looks most like a fern leaf. I'd imagine that there is likely to be a picture or two of it up on the wiki but I am just about to head to bed (approaching midnight here) to get some sleep (I can't call it beauty sleep, because it definitely doesn't work that way ). I don't actually get to read much from this list at the moment but having happened to read Diana's message just after it arrived I figured I'd quickly write and add palmifrons to the list as it definitely fits the "ferny" description. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From msittner@mcn.org Mon Apr 26 10:38:35 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040426064825.019b3340@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Lachenalia Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:36:08 -0700 Dear Tsuh Yang, Peter Knippels attended the IBSA conference in South Africa last year and I had a chance to meet him. Peter lives in the Netherlands and grows bulbs indoors. He found when he was looking for information about how to grow a large variety of bulbs indoors there were few references. So he wrote a book about his experiences to fill that gap. It is a thin volume (about 100 pages), but quite remarkable as it includes so much information. The title is Growing Bulbs Indoors by P.J.M. Knippels. Although there are a few bulbs described from other areas, the focus is on bulbs from South Africa, South America, and Chile. Peter gives background information on many genera and then describes the easiest species to grow. And it tells you how deep to plant, when to plant, when they will bloom, etc. Peter wrote this book in his early thirties and it is remarkable to think he had already learned so much. I always find books and articles written by people who have grown what they are writing about so helpful. Perhaps there will some day be another volume focusing on some of the genera he left out. I am amazed at some of the things that he has been able to grow indoors. In the back in the third appendix I see that he has classified Lachenalia in the "very experienced growers" category (along with Boophone, Brunsvigia, Bulbine, Bulbinella, winter growing Cyrtanthus, Gethyllis, winter growing Gladiolus, Massonia, winter growing Moraea, Nerine, winter growing Ornithogalum, winter growing Oxalis, and Whiteheadia.) A critical factor in growing Lachenalia indoors he writes is that you need to grow them in cool temperatures. Otherwise the plant will produce large, weak leaves without markings, no flowers and they will go dormant early. He also points out that they are susceptible to Fusarium which is one of the diseases that I was talking about. Many species come from very dry areas and it can be a tricky balance in a container to give them enough water so the leaves don't droop, but not so much that they rot. He recommends watering only when the soil is dry and then not a lot. Graham Duncan on the other hand recommends a good soaking every two weeks. I found that wasn't enough for many of the ones I grow. Some growers plant the most susceptible in straight sand. In addition if you live in a wet climate like mine when there can be days of cool humid weather and no sunshine bulbs grown outside can get other fungal diseases that start in the leaves and spread to the bulb. In Don Journet's article he noted he didn't have much problem with that in Australia, but I have with some species. Lachenalia zebrina I did not get beyond the pretty striped leaves one year when it rained a lot during November and December just after they had started into growth. Lachenalias are also susceptible to the ornithogalum mosaic virus and Don lists bulb mites as a problem too and said he wasn't sure whether the mites caused the bulbs to rot or attacked damaged bulbs. Growing indoors you may not have some of these problems. Mark Mazer grows a large number very successfully in his greenhouse in Connecticut. I assume temperatures are cooler there than they would be in a house. But perhaps he'd like to comment. Peter recommends growing from 12-17º C (53.6 - 62.6 ºF.) When I repot I toss any bulbs that look at all diseased. I have tried some of them from the desert areas, but as would be expected I do better with those that come from areas where they normally get more rain. I hope this helps. Mary Sue >i have a question: what does it mean for the bulb to be diseased? From msittner@mcn.org Mon Apr 26 10:47:17 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040426074124.019b2640@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: What's Blooming Now--TOW Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:46:00 -0700 Dear All, The topic I am suggesting for this week is one that happens naturally from time to time. I'd like all of you who are willing, to tell us about the bulbs that are flowering now in your garden, in pots, in your greenhouse, indoors. There should be some fall bulbs blooming in the Southern Hemisphere by now and hopefully some of you who live in colder climates are at last joining some of us in warmer climates who have been experiencing spring for awhile. There is a lot in bloom in my garden and I'll write about it tomorrow. You don't have to be an expert to participate in this discussion, just willing to share with all of us. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Mon Apr 26 10:50:17 2004 Message-Id: <002201c42b9d$be8d2f00$89a879a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Oxalis Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:49:56 -0700 I should add that we are offering about 30 species of Oxalis this year and the web site will be updated very shortly. If you or anyone else wants to be added to an e-mail list to be notified, please let me know. The catalogue will also be out soon and is free to PBS and IBS members. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs From jglatt@ptd.net Mon Apr 26 12:46:46 2004 Message-Id: <000701c42bae$5436d500$8b9a32d1@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: What's In Bloom in the Garden State Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:48:36 -0400 It is a soggy day here in the Garden State, so I'm reporting on what's visible out the window or what I remember from working in the garden yesterday. As an aside, IMHO anyone who invents windshield wipers for eyeglasses will make a fortune. Muscari 'Valerie Finnis' with lovely soft, quite pale blue flowers, two nice groups. Narcissus - about 1,400 Narcissus poeticus in bloom, cultivars from recurvuus and 'Old Pheasant Eye' to 'Cantabile' and 'Felindre'. Lots of cyclamineus as I am especially fond of them; 'Dove Wings' & 'Jenny' & 'Foundling' for sure, I'm blocking other names. 'Ice Follies' is in bloom. Hyacinths on the way out - these are repeaters from previous years' plantings, including forced potfuls that receive a second career in the garden. Natives (natural and introduced) in my garden: Erythronium americanum is in bloom, as are Dicentra cucullaria and D. canadensis. Trillium grandiflorum is open, the doubles are still in bud. Sessile trilliums still tight in my garden; in a friend's garden not all that far away T. luteum is beautiful, already displaying its green flowers. He has them planted with blue Phlox divaricata, elegant combination. Lots of Mertensia virginica in my garden, mostly blue and several nice pinks. Claytonia virginica is sprinkled around in the woods, on neighbors' lawns, and roadside edges. Polygonatum japonicum 'Variegatum' is sending up its pink-flushed white asparagus-like shoots. Native polygonatum and smilacina are up and unfurling their leaves. Arisarum proboscoideum has tiny little flower buds just forming - how do I know? I dug and moved 5 tiny tubers in yesterday's deluge. Arisaema thunbergii is up, but I don't recall any flowers yet. Paeonia obovata 'Alba' is budded up, as is P. smouthii. Or maybe the latter is 'Early Scout'. In either case it is a tenuifolia hybrid, with nicely cut foliage and satin-shiny deep red single flowers on a short plant. Arum italicum 'Pictum' foliage still looks very good. Judy in zone 6 where the trees are filling their canopies with a haze of tender green From arnold@nj.rr.com Mon Apr 26 13:12:01 2004 Message-Id: <408D42E0.2010005@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: What's In Bloom in the Garden State Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:12:00 -0400 A little further north of Judy we have: tulipa bakeri tulipa urumiensis tulipa clusiana tulipa ferganica erythronium californium " White beauty" fritillaria acmopetala " Wendelboi" fritillaria aurea fritillaria crassifolia kurdica fritillaria hermonis "amana" fritillaria meleagris fritillaria michailovskyi muscari macrocarpum muscari muscarimi Arisaemas and muscari pallens breaking ground along with lilies. Arnold New Jersey From cindi28@juno.com Mon Apr 26 16:41:08 2004 Message-Id: <20040426.133957.2804.1.cindi28@juno.com> From: Cindi Coffen Subject: What's Blooming Now--TOW Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:23:42 -0700 hello from seattle, there isn't much blooming now in my garden. seems that spring has come and gone pretty quickly. i have a few tulipa hybrids still blooming and the irises are budding now along with the last of the muscari. otherwise, i no longer have any bulbs blooming anymore. i guess we have had too much warm weather and therefore a short spring or something. i did enjoy it while it lasted though :). cindi on seattle's eastside where temps are in the 80's for probably the third time in a month and it is still april! "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take but by the moments that take our breath away." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Mon Apr 26 21:33:57 2004 Message-Id: <001f01c42bf7$b11c60c0$8bc779a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Telos Rare Bulbs catalogue Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:33:48 -0700 I have had a number of inquiries about the catalogue. The new 2004 catalogue will be out shortly. It is free to IBS and PBS members, otherwise it costs $3. If you have ordered within the last two years, you will automatically receive a catalogue. Otherwise, please contact me privately to be put on the list. The web site: www.telosrarebulbs.com, will also be updated shortly. If you would like to be added to an e-mail list to be notified when it has been updated, please contact me privately at rarebulbs@earthlink.net. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Apr 26 22:05:04 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: What's Blooming Now--TOW Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:05:02 -0700 In Victoria, British Columbia, Canada: Anemone de Caen hybrids A. nemorosa ( a few forms have finished, but many are still blooming) Arisaema amurense, ringens, serratum, sikokianum, and taiwanense. Arum nigrum Camassia leichtlinii Convallaria majalis - white flowered, pink flowered, striped leaves. It is wonderful to weed anywhere near them - I love the fragrance Erythroniums - some still have a shrivelled petal or two Iris - Dutch just coming out now Lilies - a few in bud, but none open yet Narcissus - pheasant eye and one double are the only ones left blooming Ranunculus - whatever those double ones are that the Dutch sell Trientalis latifolia - just opening now Trillium albidum (it's been flowering a month already and still looks great), flexipes, luteum, ovatum. Early ones are finished. Tulips -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Apr 27 11:23:20 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040426185024.00bb2df8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: What's Blooming Now--TOW Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:06:25 -0700 This is the hiatus between the great peak of bulb flowering in early spring and the peak of "California" bulb flowering in late May through June. Nonetheless there are some genera making an impression in the bulb frames and even more in the open garden. The fritillarias are through here except for the very late ones -- F. pyrenaica, pontica, graeca (or perhaps now. F. mutabilis) and acmopetala; they are mostly pollinated by wasps, which emerge later than bees and are busy at the green flowers. There are some late Muscari species, such as M. pallens which Mary Sue mentioned -- a small, non-invasive species, with pretty purple stems and white flowers faintly washed with blue; and M. argaei album, which I read is known only in cultivation, a true albino, a little greenish in bud, and coming true from seed. The "comosum" group of Muscari, formerly the genus Leopoldia, are also at their peak now; M. dionysicum, a very large one, is particularly attractive. There are still Bellevalias, mostly the less colorful species now such as B. romana, B. dubia, and B. sarmatica. Scillas go on well into late spring, and most of the late ones are easy garden plants such as S. pratensis (I'm not sure if it it;s synonymous with S. lilio-hyacinthus, but they look similar) and the very small S. verna. The pest "endymion" Rodger mentioned must be the hybrids of Hyacinthoides campanulata and H. non-scripta, sold commercially as " English bluebells." They are naturalized widely in the Pacific Northwest. The white ones are attractive and smaller, anyway. They are best restricted to rough grassy areas, but probably Rodger has no rough areas in his garden! I certainly do. Also best planted in the grass is Ornithogalum umbellatum, the Star of Bethlehem. Many "thogs" (I hear the English fanciers call them that) are in flower now, though the smallest ones started in January. Some are admissible to well-kept plantings, but most increase as fast as cheap Muscari and are best put under big shrubs and so on. I like the common European O. nutans with its nodding, gray-green-striped flowers; it will grow anywhere. A surprise in the garden today was a flowering plant of the miniature Gladiolus alatus (I think), which I have in the frame. I spread the spent potting soil on various beds in the garden, and there was a little orange-and-yellow gladiolus that had made it through a reasonably cold winter or two. The "Sierra giant" form of Triteleia laxa, huge light lavender flowers on tall stems, is blooming in garden and frames. It's so different from the deep violet, shorter form I was used to, that when I first saw it in the wild I had no idea what it was. I collected the seed in Mariposa County, California and have full-size plants in their 4th year. Another Triteleia in flower is tiny T. lemmoniae from Arizona, with dark yellow flowers on 3-inch stems. Many bearded iris species are in flower, and the Pacific Coast irises are starting. Of the latter I have mostly hybrids but also some species, including native I. tenax. Now that I have the slugs on the run I should reintroduce I. tenuis, a crested iris endemic to my home area. A number of arums have flowered this year. A. korolkowii is doing well in the open garden despite its winter foliage, and I'm accumulating some different leaf forms of A. italicum; subsp. albospathum is particularly lush. The few arisaemas I have are just now emerging in the shady garden. Also benefiting from the anti-slug campaign are the lilies. L. mackliniae is soon to flower, and I see buds on L. candidum. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA At 05:00 PM 4/26/2004 -0800, you wrote: >1. Cyclamen repandum. > >Huge sheets of it, mixed forms of all types. It does very well for >me planted in the duff that accumulates under big conifers. > >C. repandum finishes the nine-month cyclamen season for me. It will >start again in late July with a few tentative early blooms on C. >hederifolium, which will come to a climax in September and then >dwindle away by mid-November. Weather permitting, it will be followed >by C. coum, which lasts until mid-March, whereupon C. pseudibericum >fills in the gap until C. repandum once again displays its glory. > >C. mirabile & C. cilicium flower only modestly for me in the fall; C. >europaeum is an abject failure. And other species are generally a >little too tender to survive in the long run: a good blast of arctic >air and they're toast. > > >2. Endymion , a pest of pests, as >every seed germinates if you don't de-flower them religiously. > >3. Camassia leichtlinii ssp. suksdorfii -- I have some >white-flowered bulbs collected locally, but their seedlings revert >to the usual blue-violet. Camas is as bad as bluebells for seeding >about. > >I also have a named form coming into flower, 'Princess >Something-or-other', a beautiful deep violet with the great virtue >of not seeding about. The cream-colored double C. leichtlinii >leichlinii is still in tight bud. >-- >Rodger Whitlock >Victoria, British Columbia, Canada >Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate > >on beautiful Vancouver Island >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Antennaria@aol.com Mon Apr 26 22:48:16 2004 Message-Id: <1e9.1ebcb94b.2dbf23ed@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: What's Blooming Now--TOW Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:48:13 EDT One plant that has flowered well this spring is the Japanese Arisaema kishidae. The cobra-like spathes appear before the leaves above snake-skin mottled leaf sheathes; the spathes are translucent coppery-brown, veined whitish, appearing somber blackish-brown from the backside. The emerging foliage is near black in color, opening up to a lovely green, strongly mottled with silver. This is a smallish species, about 12"-16" tall. The PBS wiki page below has photos showing three aspects of this fine plant in early flower. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Arisaema Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From scamp@earthlink.net Tue Apr 27 00:35:58 2004 Message-Id: <410-2200442274363213@earthlink.net> From: "Christine Council" Subject: Telos Rare Bulbs catalogue Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:36:03 -0400 Hello: Once again this is Christine, I don't know if I am a member or subscriber, but some how I became connected to this group. I would love to have the catalog but I don't know where to send the money. I have decided to send $20.00 membership so that there is no mistake. I must become a genuine member of this clever, witty, informative organization. Most of the time it takes one to three days (at least) to figure out how to pronounce the names of the plants, some of which seem like the names of body parts or body functions. Perhaps we or you learned people have stumbled on to something better then Viagra and haven't realized it as yet. Gee, hope I haven't offended any body. I am just trying to be a comic stand up or sitting down; for the rest of the season I will practice dormancy. Bye for now, Chris > [Original Message] > From: diana chapman > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Date: 4/26/2004 9:33:59 PM > Subject: [pbs] Telos Rare Bulbs catalogue > > I have had a number of inquiries about the catalogue. > > The new 2004 catalogue will be out shortly. It is free to IBS and PBS > members, otherwise it costs $3. If you have ordered within the last two > years, you will automatically receive a catalogue. Otherwise, please > contact me privately to be put on the list. > > The web site: www.telosrarebulbs.com, will also be updated shortly. If you > would like to be added to an e-mail list to be notified when it has been > updated, please contact me privately at rarebulbs@earthlink.net. > > Diana > Telos Rare Bulbs > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ajbroome@xtra.co.nz Tue Apr 27 03:24:43 2004 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.20040427072451.01a20b48@pop3.xtra.co.nz> From: Andrew Broome Subject: Fern-like Oxalis Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:24:51 +1200 Chris said... > I'm looking for the Oxalis that resembles a fern. As well as the ones already mentioned, you could try: O. HEDYSAROIDES Andrew, http://www.oxalis.50megs.com From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Tue Apr 27 07:01:30 2004 Message-Id: <55.55d2c37e.2dbf9788@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: What's Blooming Now--TOW Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 07:01:28 EDT In the GH: Cyrtanthus mackenii, red Hippeastrum from Bill Djik seed, Calochortus superbus, a dark form of Calochortus venustus from Northwest Native Seed and several Paris sp. In the garden Fritillaria thunbergii,and uva-vulpis, Trillium erectum, sulcatum and recurvatum, Iris x graeberiana (various forms), buharica, vicarica, late Narcissus, Arisarum proboscidium. Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From dells@voicenet.com Tue Apr 27 11:02:27 2004 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 60 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 07:10:32 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 60" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Boyce Tankersley: 1. Seeds of Clivia miniata (good yellow cultivar x self) From David Sneddon: 2. Amaryllis Multiflora Rosea. Seeds collected from various plants Southern Hemisphere, Australia. Protect from cold. Potential some are X pollinated. Sow immediately. Hold watering if they enter dormancy. From Michael Loos: 3. Lachenalia pusilla seed 2. Ledebouria galpinii  "I trialed the L. galpinii and it is +90% germination. I got the seeds from Rachel at Silverhill. This is the first generation, self X.  This clone grew from seed to flower in under a year." Thank you, Boyce, David and Michael !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From msittner@mcn.org Tue Apr 27 10:33:29 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040427072447.00b62100@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Veratrum leaves Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 07:31:59 -0700 Dear All, Last week we were hiking with the digital camera along and got some nice shots of the Veratrum fimbriatum leaves so I can illustrate my point about how pretty in the spring they are (and large). It's the cucumber beetle here that takes little bites out of the leaves, but they usually hatch out latter so the leaves are still looking pristine. Now why would you call this species unattractive? Jane said a lot of them are not prized because they have green flowers. But the flowers in this species are white and fringed and very striking. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Veratrum Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From fbiasella@watertownsavings.com Tue Apr 27 11:33:11 2004 Message-Id: <005801c42c6c$ef7922c0$55a7f10a@www.watertownsavings.com> From: "fbiasella" Subject: What's Blooming Now Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:33:04 -0400 Hello All, Well it's another gloomy and drizzly day in Boston but at least it's not doing that fluffy white lumpy stuff whose name we won't mention!!! In my garden now I have Tulipa Clusiana, Pretans Fusilir and several other hybrid early flowering tulips flowering. Several narcissus are also in glorious bloom including Tete a Tete and King Alfred and a few others I can't remember right now. All the peonies are up and growing strong, they're about 10" tall and growing rapidly with all this rain we've had. The Scilla Siberica have just finished flowering and have nice fat seed capsules that should help to spread them out quite nicely. Lillium Lancifolium (formerly Tigrinum) was moved last fall from it's former bed to a newly enriched one and are all doing very well (I think they're happier too). Nerine Bowdenii over-wintered very well...as it usually does...and is showing new growth and offsets. Lycoris Squamigera actually started to grow through the mulch in late February and currently has leaves about 12" tall. The (large) clump Bletilla Striata is doing very well and I'm beginning to see lots of white buds popping out of the soil. The only thing I'm really anxious to see is if the Hippeastrum x Johnsonii made it through our rather nasty past winter. Will keep you posted if and when it makes an appearance. For the most part all of the bulbs made it ok, including those that are "not" supposed to be hardy in this climate zone. In the heated porch I have several mature Clivias and about 30 or so seedlings in various stages of development, Velthemia Bracteata from the PBX, a few cv's of Cyrtahthus (about 5 or so). I can almost hear them all say "I want to go outside"!!!!. Happy Spring and Warm Regards, Fred Biasella Cambridge (Boston) MA USDA Zone 6b P.S. Please excuse any mis-spellings. From silverhill@yebo.co.za Tue Apr 27 11:51:22 2004 Message-Id: <06b201c42c6f$b2392ce0$2d7cef9b@saunders> From: "Rachel Saunders" Subject: What's Blooming Now--TOW Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:52:09 +0200 There are no bulbous species blooming right now in our garden, except one very late Amaryllis belladonna. However, in pots, we have Strumaria picta, from Nieuwoutville. This is a rare species only known from 2 farms and we managed to get seeds a few years ago. This is the first time our plants (2 of them) have flowered. They have large white flowers with red markings onthem, and the spike is about a foot high. Then we also have Polyxena ensifolia flowering. 2 flat leaves and a bunch of white or pink flowers in the middle of the leaves. Very pretty. At the IBSA meeting last Saturday, 2 people brought magnificent pots of Polyxena in flower. THere must have been 50 or 60 plants in each pot, and every one was flowering. Quite spectacular. Also at the IBSA meeting were lots of Nerine sarniensis, various Strumaria and Hessea species, Gladiolus brevifolius, Moraea speciosa, a couple of Oxalis species, a Veltheimia capensis in bud, and some Empodium species (very similar to Spiloxene). Considering how early it is in the season, the IBSA bulb display table was full. So far Cape Town has had some reasonable rain, which on one occasion, went right up north to Namaqualand. East of Cape Town is dry still, so let's hope for rain. Regards Rachel Saunders Cape Town Please note our new telephone & fax numbers: Tel: (021) 705 0295 Fax: (021) 706 7987 International Tel: +27 21 705 0295 International Fax: +27 21 706 7987 ----- Original Message ----- From: Mary Sue Ittner To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 4:46 PM Subject: [pbs] What's Blooming Now--TOW > Dear All, > > The topic I am suggesting for this week is one that happens naturally from > time to time. I'd like all of you who are willing, to tell us about the > bulbs that are flowering now in your garden, in pots, in your greenhouse, > indoors. There should be some fall bulbs blooming in the Southern > Hemisphere by now and hopefully some of you who live in colder climates are > at last joining some of us in warmer climates who have been experiencing > spring for awhile. There is a lot in bloom in my garden and I'll write > about it tomorrow. You don't have to be an expert to participate in this > discussion, just willing to share with all of us. > > Mary Sue > PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jimmckenney@starpower.net Tue Apr 27 16:55:47 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040427165545.008f1670@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: What's Blooming Now--TOW Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:55:45 -0400 My last update was on March 24, 2004; I would have posted sooner, but got caught up in preparations for Easter. And then on April 11 I came down with a lower GI condition which kept me in bed for days and because of which I quickly lost 15 pounds and endured nearly two weeks of fatigue. It's over now, but what an ordeal! And that first big wave I alluded to in the March 24 post came and went while I was hugging my pillow. Here's where we are in Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, zone 7. I've included some non-geophytes to act as guideposts - Lilacs are just past their best; kurume azaleas are at their peak; Davidia involucrata is blooming; I saw Daphne genkwa, Pterostyrax hispida and Sinojackia in full bloom in an Alexandria, Virginia garden yesterday; Wisteria floribunda is in full bloom; Illicium flordianum is in full bloom - it stinks, just like Trillium erectum, and it yellows and drops its old leaves when in full bloom. Not a great recommendation, right? Cornus florida and Cercis canadensis are in full bloom. Darmera peltata is in bloom. The Fritillaria season is just about over; the last F. acmopetala are at their best, all others are over : F. imperialis, F. meleagris, F. uva-vulpis, F. bucharica (described in an earlier entry as F. ariana - I wish!), F. pallidiflora, F. aurea, F. involucrata, F. mystery frit #1, F. mystery frit #2 - photos of these "mystery" frits will be posted later. There are others which did not bloom. The Trillium season opened this year on April 1 with T. smallii - it's about the homeliest Trillium I've ever seen. Right now, T. flexipes, T. cuneatum, T. erectum in various forms, T. luteum in several forms, and T. recurvatum is about to open. A double-flowered Trillium grandiflorum once again aborted its flower buds this year (it has yet to bloom successfully here). Incidentally, T. cuneatum is very sweetly secented - it's one of those fragrances which carries on the air well. There are lots of other Trillium here which do not bloom regularly. We are at about the mid point of the tulip season. The earliest sorts are long gone, and many others are past their best, but there still lots of tulips in the garden. Triumph and Darwin Hybrid types are at their peak or just past. The latest May-flowering sorts are still in bud. Among the species, the later flowering sorts such as sylvestris, linifolia, batalinii, orphanidea and whittallii are now blooming. A plant received as Tulipa saxatilis is blooming: I'll try to post a photo later so the rest of you can tell me what you think about the identity. A tulip new to me this year which I like very much is T. polychroma. It is very sweetly scented. Just before the first flowers opened, it looked so much like T. turkestanica that I suspected yet another imposter. But it's distinct, and I'm glad to have it. Here in the Washington D.C. area we have several large retail garden centers which each year offer dozens of tulip varieties. Every five to eight years I go out and buy one bulb of every variety on offer that year. It's a good way to become familiar with the seasons, sorts and color range of tulips. This year, for instance, there are over 250 nominally different tulip varieties in the garden. During the next few years, many of these will disappear; and then I'll go out and do it again. Cypripedium japonicum is about to bloom, as are various Calanthe. Veratrum nigrum is strong this year but apparently will not bloom. It gets better yearly, but has not yet bloomed here. This is a real eye-catcher: the huge foliage fortunately is not bothered by slugs here (so far). V. album, in one of the bog trays, is also strong but again apparently not blooming. I'll try to post photos of these later. Arisaema sikokianum is in full bloom and strong this year. Lots of other Arisaema grow here. Asarum maximun and lots of other Asarum are either in bloom or in active growth. This makes the slugs very happy. Lilium grayi has five stems up this year. I'm doing something right here! Various other lilies in the bog trays are coming on well. Some of the modern super lilies out in the garden have put up stupendous stems. Seed of Eranthis hyemalis was collected on April 22. E. cilicicus (a botanical conference subjected anthis to a sex-change operation: it's now masucline, after being feminine for generations) seems to set seed here but it does not germinate easily. There are nice batches of germinating Jeffersonia diphylla and Sanguinaria canadensis in the frames. Paris of several sorts grow here but it looks as if none is going to bloom this year. Arisarum proboscideum in not blooming this year either: but a near look alike, Pinellia ternata, is blooming all over. This is a seemingly ineradicable weed here. Cardiocrinum cordatum will apparently bloom this year - for the second time. The first flowering came four years ago from a newly received plant; I was in India when it bloomed. This time I've earned it, and I hope to be here to see it. Various Asian Podophyllum make stunning foliage plants now. Helonias bullata continues to bloom in the bog trays. The first Sarracenia should open within a week or so. Paeonia mascula opened the peony season this year but by April 22, after two days of near 90 degree F temperatures, had shattered. Some other sorts seem to have aborted their buds in the heat (emodi, japonica, whittmanniana). Tree peonies are starting to bloom today. Poppy anemones, Anemone coronaria, are blooming freely now. Turban ranunculus should start to bloom very soon. Those of you who garden in milder climates may take these for granted: we have to work for them here! The poppy anemone will survive the winter in the open garden, but its foliage is so badly damaged that the plants bloom poorly. Here they get a cold frame, and that makes all the difference in the world. Ordinarily I'm relatively indifferent to plants which lack scent, but I make a willing exception for these. Anemone nemorosa is mostly over by now; a white-flowered single, "blue" Robinsoniana and Vestal all grow here. Muscari latifolium and the musk hyacinths are still blooming. Garden hyacinths are mostly past their best. I'll post a photo of "my" Roman hyacinth later. Regeliocyclus iris Dardanus is putting up budded scapes. Toads began to sing at the pool on March 26 and spawned for the first time soon after that. There are now plenty of tadpoles. If the wood frogs spawned, I did not notice. Deciduous trees are rapidly leafing out - the good birding days are quickly ending. Hummingbirds and wood thrushes are back - so are lots of others. The flowering of Aquilegia canadensis coincides with the annual return of the hummers. About a week ago while still ill I dozed off on the deck; I was awakened by a strange bird noise. I looked up just in time to see a great blue heron perched about eight feet away on the edge of the house roof. I guess that explains the disappearing goldfish! The screech owl continues to call nightly. Eremurus robustus has a stout inflorescence on the way up. A nice clump of Dracunculus vulgaris suggests this may be a good year for dragons. I don't see any of the Rhodohypoxis in the bog trays yet. Hemerocallis minor has well budded scapes up and ready to go. This is only the roughest sketch, but it will give an idea of where we are. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, zone 7, where we're at the height of spring and awaiting the arrival of brood X of the 17 year cicada: this will be the fourth time I've witnessed this, and with a bit of luck I should see it at least one more time. From khixson@nu-world.com Tue Apr 27 17:11:02 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20040427141056.0086c160@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: What's Blooming Now--TOW Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:10:56 -0700 Hi, Members >The pest "endymion" Rodger mentioned must be the hybrids of Hyacinthoides >campanulata and H. non-scripta, In my garden the "pink" seems to start a few days earlier than the others, as well as White Triumphator, probably at peak bloom now, and a blue called Excelsior, which seems inferior. H. non-scriptus still has flowers. This is not happy, it may need moving to an area where it gets more water-- it is in the "rainshadow" of a large rhododendron on the end of a bed. >They are best restricted to rough grassy areas Also good along sidewalks, planter strips, or other areas where you need a self sufficient plant. I (tenatively) suggest Brimeura (Hyacinthus) amethystina alba, also flowering now, as a smaller and less agressive but similiar appearing plant. It differs in having two small bracts at the base of the flower spike, and in supposedly more pointed leaves. > >Also best planted in the grass is Ornithogalum umbellatum, the Star of >Bethlehem. Many "thogs" (I hear the English fanciers call them that) are in >flower now, though the smallest ones started in January. Some are >admissible to well-kept plantings, but most increase as fast as cheap >Muscari and are best put under big shrubs and so on. I like the common >European O. nutans with its nodding, gray-green-striped flowers; it will >grow anywhere. I planted Ornithogalum balansae, nutans, and umbellatum along the sidewalk in an area that gets little summer irrigation-kids walking by have kicked off the (pop-up) sprinkler heads, so I don't water there. Somewhat to my surprise, these have diminished, not spread and flourished. >Many bearded iris species are in flower, and the Pacific Coast irises are >starting. Of the latter I have mostly hybrids but also some species, >including native I. tenax. Here, pacific coast iris are probably at peak bloom. The named varieties include Foreign Exchange, yellow (Gold?), Idylwild and a few more. Lots of unnamed seedlings. Not sure if I. tenax is still true, it hybridizes with I. douglasiana, which is also starting to flower. (I don't always pick off the seed pods, so seeds fall into the clump and germinate. I. innominata had one golden gift, a few more coming. I. thompsonii budded. Tall bearded Iris just starting-Perfume Counter, Blue Surprise, a white which should be Space Angel, but the beard doesn't separate from the fall, so may be something else. Golden Encore will open within a day or two. Anemonee nemorosa-blue is well past. Single white with pink tinged exterior, scorched after yesterday's 80F temperature. Crested white in masses, still looking good. Hybrid anemonees almost past. Allium karataviense-one bud has split the sheath, so will be in flower shortly. Allium cowanii/neapolitanum--I bought both names, and the plants were different, but which one still survives? Allium-unnamed, from mixed species seed, possibly A. ostroskianum--anyway, a fair pink, is just starting. This is not what I bought under this name, but? Camassia leichtlinii suksdorfii-tall blue, starting. Narcissus-Polar Ice was fine yesterday morning, the heat melted it. Same with Stratosphere, a tall jonquil hybrid. N. Sun Dial still in bloom but starting to look a little ratty. This was unusually tall this year-almost a foot. N Misty Glen is white, the green eye not obvious now. Ixia hybrids-rose showing color north of the house along the walk to the front door, while elsewhere some open flowers, cream still tight bud. Gladiolus tristis almost open. G. carinatus has a flower, but it is in a pot so can't say it is in season. Lilies-the first here will be L. washingtonianum, usually around June 1. Right now it is less than a foot tall. Dicentra formosa Marjory Fish has been open a couple weeks. Off white, or white with salmony pink midribs. Geranium tuberosum still has a few bluish flowers. Lewisia cotyledon hybrids have been open at least a couple weeks. For comparison, apple trees still have a few flowers, oak tree leaves are partly expanded, Mollis azaleas in salmon and lemon are at peak flower while the named variety Peter Koster is almost done. Buddleia globosa is about to open its' orange yellow balls of flowers, for the first time here. Dames' Rocket, Hesperis matronalis, is starting. I try to keep the white, it keeps sporting back to lavender and I keep pulling out the lavenders. Who will win? Aquilegia flabellata blue, and white, and A. formosa are starting. Roses-- Graham Thomas, Mary Rose, Fru Dagmar Hastrupp--none of them pruned last winter, but still, very early. Ken, western Oregon Z7 From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Apr 27 17:32:45 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: What's Blooming Now--TOW Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:32:31 -0700 The lavender ones are much favoured by Swallowtail butterflies, which then lay their eggs on nearby fennel. I will check and see if the butterflies also like the pale flowers. > Dames' Rocket, Hesperis matronalis, is starting. I try to keep the >white, it keeps sporting back to lavender and I keep pulling out the >lavenders. > >Ken, western Oregon Z7 > A couple of good things about bluebells: 1. Childhood memories: They were the first flowers all the neighbourhood kids used to pick, in a nearby wooded area, next to the field with a horse in it. ( apartment buildings replaced the horse about fifty years ago, alas.) I try to keep them under control in my garden, and never let them set seed, but I still like them for picking as they will fill in a bouquet when I only want to sacrifice one or two tulips. 2. Deer like to browse the copious juicy green leaves, so if they fill up on bluebells, they will surely have less room for trilliums and tulips. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Tue Apr 27 18:12:12 2004 Message-Id: <5CCC1CC0-9895-11D8-A078-003065EFBD84@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: What's Blooming Now--TOW Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:53:48 -0700 As others at this end of the U.S. have pointed out, the big main flush of all the spring bloomers has past. And with the current record breaking heat we're experiencing, anything still blooming in that group will probably end soon. However, the various colors of Ornithogalum dubium are all in bloom as are several other Ornithogalums that others have mentioned. The very first lily is in bloom (a light pink L. longiflorum cultivar whose name I can't recall), but many are in bud. I still have a couple of Leucocorynes in flower, as well as several native Brodiaeas, and Conanthera campanulata. A Gladiolus cardinalis, I believe, that I got from Diana Chapman is also blooming prettily. More of my Rhodohypoxis cultivars are coming into bloom as well. The main show, however, are the Hippeastrums, and related genera including Sprekelia formossisima 'Orient Red' which continues to send up flowers and Griffiniopsis blumenavium (which I finally got a clear photo of and added that to the wiki. I've uploaded a few of the Hipp. cultivars to the wiki. ('Emerald', 'Giraffe', 'Jaguar', and 'Red Peacock'.) http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HippeastrumHybrids I also added an image to the mystery bulbs of what came labelled to me as Hipp. puniceum album. However, it doesn't look like my other H. puniceum and it is red. The flowers are much smaller than all my other Hippeastrums, about 2in/5cm across and 3in/7.5cm deep, yet the leaves look like typical Hipp. leaves. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MysteryBulbs --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From dkramb@badbear.com Tue Apr 27 20:32:26 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20040427201745.01b11ec0@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: request for iris species photos Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:32:27 -0400 Sorry for cluttering your in-boxes with the multiple cross-posting, but I have a big big big BIG request. With bloom season upon those of us in the northern hemisphere, I hope you will consider taking some photos of your iris species & uploading them to the SIGNA database located at http://www.badbear.com/signa Anything from the Family Iridaceae is welcome. I just added some photos that were recently posted on the Louisiana Iris Yahoogroups list, and I sincerely thank those of you that let me use them! But I think there are plenty more photo opportunities out there, this season. Please help!! Thanks in advance!! Best Regards, Dennis (in a very chilly Cincinnati, Ohio) From msittner@mcn.org Wed Apr 28 00:51:20 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040426154117.00d02100@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: What's Blooming Now--TOW Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:36:31 -0700 Hi All, It is so interesting reading about so many different things in bloom in different areas. I don't even know what some of the plants people listed are just as some of you probably won't know the ones I grow either. I hope Jim McKenney as he feels better will add pictures of some of the things he grows to the wiki so I can see what they look like even if I probably can't grow them. My report is from Coastal Northern California. Like Cindi in Seattle we have had an unusually warm spring with long periods without rain. That meant that some bulbs did not bloom nearly as long as they usually do (early tulips for one thing), but what it means now is that a lot of the things that normally bloom in May and June are already in bud or flower so I have more blooming right now than I normally would. If temperatures remain warm the ones starting now may be fleeting as well. There is color everywhere I look, sometimes a lot of different colors. I still have South African winter growing bulbs in bloom. In the ground my Moraeas (Homeria subgroup) are blooming everywhere in shades of yellow, gold, apricot, and orange. Moraea bellendenii with its tall yellow flowers and a late blooming M. sisyrinchium that I got from Fausto via my friend Jana are also in bloom. This clone has darker purple flowers. Moraea setifolia and cedarmontana are still blooming. Some other one is spiking in one of my raised beds, possibly M. lurida which is one of the later ones. Most of my species Babianas are finished, but in the ground are huge swaths of color from the hybrids. They are very happy this year and have put on quite a show. The hybrid Ixias in the ground are blooming too. I wish they didn't fall over, but they are quite striking, white, yellow, magenta with a darker center. The orange Ixia dubia (syn. I. frederickii) opened today and I saw color on an Ixia viridiflora and some of the other late blooming species will be opening soon and that Ixia monadelpha I wrote about earlier is still blooming. Obviously it is better in a warmer dryer time. Ferraria crispa norterii has been in bloom a long time. Tritonias are also in bloom in various shades of orange: T. deusta, T. securigera, T. crocata, and some labeled mixed colors from Kirstenbosch seed. Since I started growing T. securigera under shelter with my Lachenalias it looks a lot better and is really a lovely long blooming flower. Julian Slade identified the plant from Silverhill seed that didn't seem to fit Ixia pumillo as T. dubia and that seems to check out. It is long gone, but I changed it on the wiki and have recently added some pictures of some of the Tritonias that are blooming now (the mixed colored ones and a new T. crocata that I got labeled as T. squalida which is orange so must be T. crocata instead. I also added two pictures Bob took in South Africa of T. karooica grown by Jim Holmes and Henry Pauw that I wish I grew. Check it out Jennifer as it is an amazing orange yellow combination. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tritonia I have some low growing Watsonias in bloom and some others almost in bloom. W. coccinea which may be my favorite is looking really nice this year. This is my first year to have W. laccata in bloom from seed and W. alectroides always blooms a very long time for me where it is planted in one of my raised beds. There is also a tall purple hybrid in bloom. The late blooming Lachenalias have been nice, but not lasting quite as long as usual with the warmer temperatures. Blooming right now are L. comptonii, L. contaminata, L. orthropetala, L. liliflora, L. unicolor, L. zeyheri, L. purpureocaerulea, L. nervosa and L. violacea var. glauca. I've not had much luck with the latter species before. It smells just like coconut. Also just starting is L. campanulata, the evergreen one that I grew from seed from Rhoda and Cameron. Cyrtanthus brachyscaphus just recently started blooming after I thought perhaps it needed to be divided since usually it blooms much sooner, but I have a lot of nice orange flowers in two pots. My Ledebouria cooperii is just starting to bloom. I need to check this one to see if that is still what it is called. There only is one bloom this year, but I didn't repot it. Still I like the leaves. My Geissorhizas have been in bloom a long time, but are finishing now. G. radians and monanthos with their amazingly intricate blooms still have a few flowers and a new unknow sp. from Silverhill seed just started to bloom. G. bracteata (white with red behind) is always one of the last ones to flower. My Ornithogalum dubium is still looking quite nice and any day now I'll have the first bloom on O. conicum. Gladiolus carneus is blooming and some hybrid dark red one growing in the ground. There are spikes on many of the late blooming ones, but they will probably bloom while I'm gone. Aristea ecklonii is now blooming, but what is extremely exciting given my poor luck with Aristeas no matter how many I keep trying from seed is that there is a spike on A. bakeri (syn. A. confusa). I ended up with two plants from that batch of seed and planted them out. One is going to bloom. I so hope it blooms before I leave, but am not sure it will. There is also a Tulbaghia in bloom (cominsii x violacea from Dave Fenwick seed.) And there is one Oxalis obtusa still blooming. I also have a few South American bulbs in bloom. Gelasine uruguaiensis ssp orientalis has started blooming this week. It looks like if I dead head it I may get more blooms than last year. It closes early afternoon so the flowers are really fleeting. I have two species of Phaedranassa in bloom. The Pasithea still has a few flowers, but is nearing the end of its bloom. Leucocoryne vittae is smashing at the moment. I don't seem to have as good luck getting L. purpurea to bloom every year, but have a couple of flowers open. A patch of Alstroemeria which is very happy in the ground and slowly spreading is open as well too. I have a couple of Herbertias blooming. I've had many from seed labeled different things. I think they might both be H. lahue. Australian plants in bloom are Orthrosanthus multiflorus and Arthropodium strictum. There must be 40 or 50 buds on my Thysanotus patersonii (a Telos purchase) which is climbing on a wire fence. Usually it gives out before it blooms, but just maybe this year I'll see those purple flowers. Or maybe they will shrivel in the heat. My California native plants that generally bloom this time of the year have been joined by some that bloom later. I have Sisyrinchium bellum and S. californicum in bloom. The latter is interesting since I haven't seen it for years, as generally it likes wet places (not likely in my garden in summer), but there must have been some seed around that germinated this year. Iris douglasiana and I. innominata (a lovely yellow one) are blooming along with a few of my Pacific Coast hybrids. Dichelostemma capitatum, ida-maia, and multiflorum are in bloom and Triteleia laxa, hyacinthina, ixioides, hendersonii, bridgesii and the last of the T. lilacina. Even T. ixioides ssp. anilina shows color. It is a mountain species and always the last to come up and to bloom. Like Jane I grow quite a lot of different forms of T. laxa so have them in various stages. Brodiaea jolonensis has just started and there are good sized buds on B. californica which is usually summer flowering. Odontostomun hartwegii which most people aren't too excited about is blooming too. Allium crispum, A. uniflorum, and A. peninsulare are blooming and A. haematochiton is still blooming. It blooms for months and months. A lot of other native Alliums will bloom soon. I still have some of the earlier Calochortus in bloom (C. uniflorus, albus, amoenus, monophyllus, tolmieii), but much earlier than usual I have Mariposas blooming: C. venustus and catalinae, and also C. splendens. And C. amabilis opened today. I added some new pictures to the wiki of Calochortus venustus and C. amoenus. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Calochortus Growing in the shade of a Coast Redwood, my Clintonia andrewsiana has a lot of blooms this year and Lilium martimum is really far along for this time of the year, but not quite open. My Zigadenus fremontii is starting to bloom too. The warm weather is slowing down my Delphiniums, but I've really enjoyed them as usual this year. I have been working on my Delphinium wiki page and have a couple still to add, but most of the ones I grow are now pictured. This year was the first year for D. decorum which is really gorgeous with shiny leaves and blue flowers with purple tints. It is very short without as many flowers as D. hesperium which is such a great plant. Also blooming right now is D. parryi that Harold Koopowitz gave me seed of. It has a tall spike with a lot of flowers on it and is also a really pretty color. I am realizing how much they hybridize as I have some very strange looking ones now. I now have the different species located in different parts of my garden. I worry what some of you might get from the BX seed I donated in the past. I've photographed a dark red D. nudicaule I grew from seed of one I discovered in a local orange red wild population. I didn't see any other species in bloom in that area so am not sure how it got that color, but some of them were the same color from that seed. There is one that is orange and yellow that is probably a cross between luteum and nudicaule. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Delphinium I still have Cyclamen in bloom and a few Muscaris and my first bulbous Corydalis (solida alba) from seed. My Bletilla is in bloom too and that Oxalis that reseeds a lot (O. carnosa). In my garden there are lots of shrubs, annuals, and perennials in bloom too, but I'll save listing all of them as this post is already much too long. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From Theladygardens@aol.com Wed Apr 28 03:24:46 2004 Message-Id: <165.2e2deac3.2dc0b637@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Pacific BX 60 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 03:24:39 EDT If they are still available I would like seeds of #1. Clivia miniata and #2? the second number 2 (maybe meant to be 4) Ledebouria galpinii Thanks, Carolyn 16380 Harwood Rd., Los Gatos, CA 95032 From malkredwood@xtra.co.nz Wed Apr 28 06:10:21 2004 Message-Id: <001701c42d08$f5aa8d40$9a4a36d2@malkredwood> From: "Malcolm Redwood" Subject: whats blooming now Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:09:56 +1200 Dear All, A Nerine fothergillii? is starting to fade (Nerine sarniensis is starting to flower at Clive Square in town). Also my Oxalis massoniana has flowers and if only the sun would come out so they will open! Malcolm Redwood. Napier, New Zealand. Zone 9. From msittner@mcn.org Wed Apr 28 13:19:22 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040428092146.00b62cf0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Upcoming Topics--List Resources Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:35:54 -0700 Dear All, I'll be gone most of May. If anyone needs assistance with our list while I am gone, please contact Arnold Trachtenberg, Arnold at nj.rr.com If you need help with the wiki you can contact Mark McDonough at Antennaria at aol.com or Mark Wilcox at marque219 at yahoo.com I haven't scheduled topics of the week for all the time I am gone, but I have a few: May 2 -- To Do -- Diane Whitehead May 9 -- Ledbouria -- Introduction Rhoda McMaster May 16 -- Paris -- Introduction Mark Mazer May 23 -- Open May 30 -- To Do -- Diane Whitehead June 6 -- Favorite Red Flowered Bulbs June 13 -- Trillium -- Introduction John Lonsdale Coming in July--Pelargonium Coming in August--Crocosmia Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From valden@vectis52.freeserve.co.uk Wed Apr 28 13:44:59 2004 Message-Id: <001b01c42d48$8463e150$535b893e@deny471g8xq1jy> From: "Den Wilson" Subject: mystery bulb. Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:32:13 +0100 Lee, <> This Hippeastrum seems to be a wanderer. I received the very same plant approx. 7 years ago from Paul Christian labelled H. stylosum (which it clearly isn't). It is a nice plant of very modest proportions but I have never been able to discover its true identity. Accidents and mistakes do happen but I sometimes wonder how some plants manage to aquire their labels. Cheers. Den Wilson Isle of Wight UK. Zone 8 (maritime) almost frost-free. From dells@voicenet.com Wed Apr 28 13:57:35 2004 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 60 CLOSED Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:58:37 -0400 Dear All, There are still a few of the yellow clivia seeds left, but everything else is gone. Packages should go out by the weekend. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From Dpescadera@aol.com Wed Apr 28 22:16:08 2004 Message-Id: <5F15264D.6EA459EA.0B1FD5AC@aol.com> From: Dpescadera@aol.com Subject: Telos Rare Bulbs catalogue Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:15:55 -0400 Thanks--I already get your wonderful catalogue, and can't wait to see this year's offerings. Wanted to give you my e-mail address, too: dpescadera@aol.com Best wishes, Diana Fish From scamp@earthlink.net Wed Apr 28 23:11:45 2004 Message-Id: <410-22004442931153209@earthlink.net> From: "Christine Council" Subject: Telos Rare Bulbs catalogue Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:11:53 -0400 I can't wait to get the catalog, I did send in my dues as promised. I thought I was a member but found out that I am a subscriber. It must be a great catalog because as the kids used to say "it is the rage." Take care, Chris > [Original Message] > From: > To: ; > Date: 4/28/2004 10:16:33 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Telos Rare Bulbs catalogue > > Thanks--I already get your wonderful catalogue, and can't wait to see this year's offerings. Wanted to give you my e-mail address, too: dpescadera@aol.com > Best wishes, Diana Fish > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From scamp@earthlink.net Wed Apr 28 23:30:38 2004 Message-Id: <410-22004442933045848@earthlink.net> From: "Christine Council" Subject: Fern-like Oxalis Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:30:45 -0400 Andrew, How do you know all of this stuff? you always come through when I have a question. Please keep up the good work. Chris > [Original Message] > From: Andrew Broome > To: > Date: 4/28/2004 3:24:21 AM > Subject: [pbs] Re: Fern-like Oxalis > > Chris said... > > > I'm looking for the Oxalis that resembles a fern. > > As well as the ones already mentioned, you could try: > > O. HEDYSAROIDES > > Andrew, http://www.oxalis.50megs.com > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Thu Apr 29 11:12:40 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040429080702.041a0d60@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: California Monocot book Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:11:21 -0700 Hi All, Only 4 people wrote they were interested in this book and not all for the same version so it probably isn't worth my time and effort in trying to get a discount for us. I've saved the names of those 4 and in June when I have more time I'll email them to see if they still want it and if there are others I've heard from since I'll make a few calls to see about the price. I am sure I'd have to order a certain number to get the discount. Mary Sue From totototo@pacificcoast.net Mon Apr 26 19:58:12 2004 Message-Id: <200404262358.i3QNw70U030163@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: What's Blooming Now--TOW Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:00:50 -800 1. Cyclamen repandum. Huge sheets of it, mixed forms of all types. It does very well for me planted in the duff that accumulates under big conifers. C. repandum finishes the nine-month cyclamen season for me. It will start again in late July with a few tentative early blooms on C. hederifolium, which will come to a climax in September and then dwindle away by mid-November. Weather permitting, it will be followed by C. coum, which lasts until mid-March, whereupon C. pseudibericum fills in the gap until C. repandum once again displays its glory. C. mirabile & C. cilicium flower only modestly for me in the fall; C. europaeum is an abject failure. And other species are generally a little too tender to survive in the long run: a good blast of arctic air and they're toast. 2. Endymion , a pest of pests, as every seed germinates if you don't de-flower them religiously. 3. Camassia leichtlinii ssp. suksdorfii -- I have some white-flowered bulbs collected locally, but their seedlings revert to the usual blue-violet. Camas is as bad as bluebells for seeding about. I also have a named form coming into flower, 'Princess Something-or-other', a beautiful deep violet with the great virtue of not seeding about. The cream-colored double C. leichtlinii leichlinii is still in tight bud. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Fri Apr 30 01:21:20 2004 Message-Id: <20040430052119.23640.qmail@web11309.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Artistry/John Ingram Subject: z5 suprises Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:21:19 -0700 (PDT) I was in OH at my uncle's house doing a little work this last week and had a few suprises. The first and most unbelievable was a little plant I had forgot was even there. On the patio last year in the containers were several "tropicals" that were planted into the ground at the end of summer. I had several things like tropical hibiscus, Purple Fountain Grass (Penneseum setraseuem), ivy geramniums, etc. Well, I had one pot of Tulbaghia violacea variegaata. It is the only thing there that could be coming up with that fragrance. It appears that the whole clump is returning. This is all astounding because it was planted in pure clay with minimum drainage in the winter. I will leave it in place to see what transpires. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. Soon to become www.floralarchitecture.com check it out soon jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From geophyte@sbcglobal.net Fri Apr 30 02:18:05 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20040429231019.02bb1640@pop.sbcglobal.net> From: Jamie Subject: z5 suprises Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:14:10 -0700 Tulbaghia violacea 'Variegata' is sold and grown year-round as an aquatic plant at a Water Garden nursery in Yountville. (Napa Valley, CA) Jamie From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Fri Apr 30 08:36:31 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040430224319.01449b10@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: What's Blooming Now--TOW Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:43:19 +1000 Howdy All, I'm not very active on the list now-a-days due to continuing ill health but I thought I'd chime in with a "What's Blooming Now" report for here in Canberra, Australia. We're still suffering badly from drought with around 2 months since we had any registerable rain (we had 8mm on the 6th of March). Normally our autumn rains would start in late March or early April but there has been a complete failure of them this year which is devastating given how bad our water situation is after the last few years of lower rainfall. If we don't get rain soon then we're going to be in serious trouble next summer, so here's hoping for some decent rain soon!! On to what is blooming now ..... The first of the Galanthus are flowering now which is wonderful. G. peshmenii has been out for a couple of weeks and G. reginae-olgae has started this week as well. Numerous Crocus species are in flower already such as goulimyi, hardiaticus, speciosus 'Oxonian', longiflorus, laevigatus, nudiflorus, erotinus ssp salzmanii and pulchellus (which is a full 2 months later than normal this year). Also flowering now is Crocus sativus (the saffron crocus) which is wonderful as it has skipped the last year or two. Quite a few flowers this year in both pots and the ground which is lovely to see as the bright saffron threads stand out so well. There are also a few otehr autumn and early winter crocus starting to emerge but not close to flowering as yet. The nerines have all been putting on a good display this year. The species N. bowdenii is starting to open a few early flowers right now (which N. bowdenii 'Manina Forest Form' has already been open for a fortnight and is 113cm tall which is pretty amazing) and N. filifolia is in full bloom. Various hybrid nerines are in flower or bud now but there are a few that don't appear to be going to flower this year which is a shame. N. undulata is just about to open its first flowers (second year of flowering for me from seed I purchased from Rachel at Silverhill a few years ago) and is a delightfully delicate nerine that I just adore!! N. flexuosa 'Alba' is sending up buds and will put on its usual display shortly. The last of the dahlias are still in flower (pretty badly hit by the heat and dry, even with regular watering it just isn't the same) and the tree dahlias (imperialis, excelsa and cultivars) are just about to open just in time to be destroyed by the first frosts which are due any time now. Last year our first frosts delayed until June so you just never know what will happen this year. If current trends continue though I'd expect our first frost within the next week to 10 days or so. Various Cyclamens are in flower or bud. Late C. hederifolium are still blooming as well as some persicums, plus there are buds on some of the coums, purpurascens and the odd flower still holding on on intaminatum. So many other cyclamens are shooting as well though, so I figure there's buds down amongst the leaves on a lot of them as well (mirabile, parvifolium, cyprium, libanoticum and cilicicum to name a few. The leaves on most of these are worth it even when not in flower, so this time of year is a joy both from seeing things shooting and knowing they'll flower soon and having the assorted wonderful leaves on so many of the cyclamen. There's still a few of the species geraniums in flower which add a bit of colour, plus a number of different salvias, annual morning glory, Dicentra macrocarpum (still holding on with a few flowers now having been in flower since around November). Clematis cirrhosa varieties such as 'Lansdown Jem', 'Freckles', 'Wisley Cream' and 'Balearicum' are all in flower to varying amounts and a few very late flowers are still around on some of the jackmanii hybrids as well (they've flowered at odd times all summer long due to our strange weather). Hypoxis stellata is just opening its first few buds (VERY late this year) and Polyxena longituba is putting on the best display it has ever done (Mary Sue I think I can finally understand why you actually like it..... it has never flowered like this for me before with virtually a solid mass of flowers just above ground level with leaves poking through. Very pretty I have to say for the first time ever about this species and I definitely have to re-evaluate my thoughts on it. I figured you'd be happy to hear this ). Haemanthus albiflos is flowering now and I am carefully applying pollen I saved from my H. coccineus when they were in flower a month or so ago (harvesting seed of them at the moment) and I am hoping to successfully manage to get seeds and end up with varying shades of pink hybrid offspring (one can but hope!!?). Massonia depressa is starting to think about budding at the moment so it shouldn't be too long now. Trillium noses are sitting at ground level, awaiting the correct time to come into growth. They may only still be there at ground level but they're a nice reminder of the fact that they're there. Hellebores are just starting to send up their first buds on some of the earlier plants, but they're all a way off flowering yet. I'm sure there are numerous things I've forgotten but it gives you all a pretty good idea of what is in flower for me here at the moment down in this part of the Southern Hemisphere in late autumn. It has been great to hear what everyone else around the list has flowering in their various parts of the world. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From jshields104@insightbb.com Fri Apr 30 09:06:43 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040430075204.0279bec0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: What's Blooming Now--TOW Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:06:42 -0500 Hi all, Here in central Indiana, USDA zone 5, we are in late Spring. The Narcissus are all finished. The Primula are starting to bloom now -- veris, sieboldii, and cortusoides are in full bloom, while vulgaris is almost done for. The Redbud trees (Cercis canadensis) are starting to fade, but the Dogwoods (Cornus florida) are at peak blossom. The Wild Plum Trees (Prunus americanus) have dropped all their petals. Some of the Trillium are starting to fade (T. recurvatum), others are just coming into full flower (TT. grandiflorum, flexipes, luteum, erectum). The early season Arisaema are up and in bloom: the native A. triphyllum, as well as the exotic species AA. kishidae, ringens, sazensoo, and sikokianum. Bluebells (Hyacinthoides sp. or hybrids) are starting to bloom. Polygonatum (Solomon Seal) are up and flowering. Podophyllum (May Apples) are up. The Iris cristata are forming a blue carpet on the floor of my woodland garden. This is the best show they have put on so far. Regards, Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Fri Apr 30 10:18:27 2004 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: What's Blooming Now--TOW Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:18:12 -0300 Just to point out the differences in similar zones - here in USDA zone 5b Eastern Maritime Canada some crocus are blooming and the colts foot is up. The moss on my lawn is turning green. Rand Nicholson >Hi all, > >Here in central Indiana, USDA zone 5, we are in late Spring. The >Narcissus are all finished. The Primula are starting to bloom now >-- veris, sieboldii, and cortusoides are in full bloom, while >vulgaris is almost done for. The Redbud trees (Cercis canadensis) >are starting to fade, but the Dogwoods (Cornus florida) are at peak >blossom. The Wild Plum Trees (Prunus americanus) have dropped all >their petals. > >Some of the Trillium are starting to fade (T. recurvatum), others >are just coming into full flower (TT. grandiflorum, flexipes, >luteum, erectum). > >The early season Arisaema are up and in bloom: the native A. >triphyllum, as well as the exotic species AA. kishidae, ringens, >sazensoo, and sikokianum. > >Bluebells (Hyacinthoides sp. or hybrids) are starting to bloom. >Polygonatum (Solomon Seal) are up and flowering. Podophyllum (May >Apples) are up. > >The Iris cristata are forming a blue carpet on the floor of my >woodland garden. This is the best show they have put on so far. > >Regards, >Jim Shields > > >************************************************* >Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. >P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ >Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA >Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From rrgcjsg@bmts.com Fri Apr 30 10:57:18 2004 Message-Id: <009501c42ec2$d1a2ff70$ce8db7d8@c2i8j9> From: "Lee & Scott Gerow" Subject: New to Group Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:52:47 -0400 Good morning, I have recently joined this grooup and I am dropping in to say hello and to say thank you for the vast amounts of information that you have provided. Has anyone on this list been able to grow the Leucojums below. I believe they are listed as zone 7. I live in zone 5a/b and have a small micro climate provided by the escarpment and the woods and water as a modifying factor. Would appreciate any input please. Ronnalee LEUCOJUM AUTUMNALE LEUCOJUM AUTUMNALE var. OPORANTHUM LEUCOJUM AUTUMNALE var. PULCHELLUM LEUCOJUM NICAEENSE LEUCOJUM ROSEUM From Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com Fri Apr 30 11:24:44 2004 Message-Id: From: Nan Sterman Subject: A bit off topic... Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:24:34 -0700 This is a bit off topic so please respond to me off list if you can help.... I have been asked to contribute to a gardening book that is filled with ideas for using household items in the garden - kind of a "trash to treasure" tip book for things to do with old milk containers, baking pans, bedsheets, paper bags, bobby pins, old athletic equipment, children's toys, etc. Since gardeners tend to be the most clever recyclers I know, I am wondering what I can learn from you. Have you found any terrific uses for your old household items? Know anyone else who has? Nan -- +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Nan Sterman Plant Soup (TM) PO Box 231034 Encinitas, CA 92023 760.634.2902 (voice) Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com 760.634.2957 (fax) +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Apr 30 12:27:00 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040430092157.00bbaa48@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: New to Group Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:26:32 -0700 Ronnalee asked, Has anyone on this list been able to grow the Leucojums below. >I believe they are listed as zone 7. >I live in zone 5a/b and have a small micro climate provided by >the escarpment and the woods and water as a modifying factor. >LEUCOJUM AUTUMNALE >LEUCOJUM AUTUMNALE var. OPORANTHUM LEUCOJUM AUTUMNALE var. >PULCHELLUM >LEUCOJUM NICAEENSE LEUCOJUM ROSEUM These plants are now all placed in the genus Acis, but I think they still appear on the PBS "Photographs and Information" page on the website as Leucojum. Leucojum roseum is generally said to be completely frost-tender. L. autumnale survives winter temperatures down to about 15 degrees F without snow cover. L. nicaeense probably is cold-hardy without snow cover to at least 20 degrees F, at least for one year. However, repeated years at these winter lows tend to beat the plants to death. In other words, USDA Zone 5 (average winter lows down to minus 20 F) is not a likely garden home for any them, but if snow cover is VERY reliable, you might try L. autumnale, which is very cheap to buy. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon (Zone 7 most years) From Pat.Colville@jameshardie.com Fri Apr 30 12:31:54 2004 Message-Id: From: "Pat Colville" Subject: A bit off topic... Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:28:04 -0700 Vases for forcing bulbs like hyacinths or narcissus can be made from plastic soft drink or water bottles. Cut off the top just below the curved area. Invert and put back with the bulb inserted. Of course you take off the cap and fill with water to an appropriate level. 16 or 20 oz bottle work well. Phyllis Ferguson, Cathy Craig's mother, grows tiny sinningias ( and perhaps other miniature plants)in the containers used for single doses of milk. The ones you get in Coffee shops. Then she puts whole collections of plants in the transparent containers used for food in deli cases. Very clever recycling for growers of minature plants. Perhaps Cathy will take a picture. Pat Colville -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Nan Sterman Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 8:25 AM Subject: [pbs] A bit off topic... This is a bit off topic so please respond to me off list if you can help.... I have been asked to contribute to a gardening book that is filled with ideas for using household items in the garden - kind of a "trash to treasure" tip book for things to do with old milk containers, baking pans, bedsheets, paper bags, bobby pins, old athletic equipment, children's toys, etc. Since gardeners tend to be the most clever recyclers I know, I am wondering what I can learn from you. Have you found any terrific uses for your old household items? Know anyone else who has? Nan -- +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Nan Sterman Plant Soup (TM) PO Box 231034 Encinitas, CA 92023 760.634.2902 (voice) Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com 760.634.2957 (fax) +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From wlp@Radar-Sci.Jpl.Nasa.Gov Fri Apr 30 13:01:54 2004 Message-Id: <070A5F0D-9AC8-11D8-8C28-003065EFBD84@radar-sci.jpl.nasa.gov> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: A bit off topic... Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:01:30 -0700 Pat, I took a picture of Phyllis's sinningias in a deli container from the last PBS potluck at Cathy's and put it on the wiki. It's on the Miscellaneous 'page in the item called "PBS Get-together - Nov. 2003 at Cathy Craig's home". --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 On Apr 30, 2004, at 9:28 AM, Pat Colville wrote: > Phyllis Ferguson, Cathy Craig's mother, grows tiny sinningias ( and > perhaps other miniature plants)in the containers used for single doses > of milk. The ones you get in Coffee shops. > > Then she puts whole collections of plants in the transparent containers > used for food in deli cases. > Very clever recycling for growers of minature plants. Perhaps Cathy > will take a picture. > Pat Colville > From piabinha@yahoo.com Fri Apr 30 16:44:15 2004 Message-Id: <20040430204413.4158.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Lachenalia Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:44:13 -0700 (PDT) dear mary sue, john b. and others, many thanks for your thoughtful replies. i'm sorry i'm so late in replying, but i appreciate all your help. > book about his experiences to fill that gap. It is a > thin volume (about 100 > pages), but quite remarkable as it includes so much > information. The title > is Growing Bulbs Indoors by P.J.M. Knippels. do you know if this book is available in the u.s.? i appreciate your observations on indoor growings. i've realized that one can never generalize with this group of plants. i've tried in the past growing some cape bulbs indoors and did not have much luck. but i'm able to grow some others like an unidentified Lachenalia someone sent me (with spotted leaves and white flowers with green tips -- is that aloides?) that has bloomed and never gone dormant (i no longer have it, since i gave it to a friend). i have not had problems growing both Veltheimias so far (capensis and bracteata) except that the blooms in capensis have not opened, but have blasted. the ones in bracteata are still holding on. > I am amazed at some of the things that he has been > able to grow indoors. In > the back in the third appendix I see that he has > classified Lachenalia in > the "very experienced growers" category (along with > Boophone, Brunsvigia, > Bulbine, Bulbinella, winter growing Cyrtanthus, > Gethyllis, winter growing > Gladiolus, Massonia, winter growing Moraea, Nerine, > winter growing > Ornithogalum, winter growing Oxalis, and > Whiteheadia.) A critical factor in > growing Lachenalia indoors he writes is that you > need to grow them in cool > temperatures. i have rather cool windowsills. my apt. is not very warm in the winter and in the windowsills, the temp can drop to a high of 50's in the daytime. various plants have appreciated that, whereas others have adapted to it. i just don't grow things like Episcias and some other very warm-growing platns in windowsills anymore. i have Boophane at the office. it's growing fine but no flowers yet, it's still a juvenile. i'd love to grow Gethylis one day. tsuh yang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From cindi28@juno.com Fri Apr 30 17:10:51 2004 Message-Id: <20040430.140945.3192.1.cindi28@juno.com> From: Cindi Coffen Subject: saving seeds Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:06:35 -0700 hi all, i was outside (another warm and sunny day here) just yesterday working among my bulb plants and found that i have some hyacinthus with seed pods on them. they have most likely done this in years past, but i never paid much attention and didn't think about saving seeds. these plants are H. orientalis and of course a hybrid so i am curious as to whether the seeds in those pods would grow and would they come back true to the form i already have? TIA, cindi seattle's eastside where it is 80 degrees again! can seattle shed that rainy/dreary/wet reputation yet? :) "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take but by the moments that take our breath away." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From ConroeJoe@aol.com Fri Apr 30 19:13:46 2004 Message-Id: <157.33e43175.2dc437a8@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Info on relaxation of USDA import rules for seed Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 19:13:44 EDT Hi, See the note below. If you have something to say, be sure to write to the USDA. For my part, I hope to encourage them to relax the rules even more. Joe ----------------------------------------------- We are proposing to amend the nursery stock regulations to allow the importation of small lots of seed under an import permit with specific conditions, as an alternative to the current phytosanitary certificate requirement.  This proposed change is necessary because several entities that import small lots of seed-individual importers, horticultural societies, arboreta, and small businesses have had difficulty obtaining the necessary certificates and have been adversely affected by the phytosanitary certificate requirement.  We will consider all comments that we receive on or before June 28, 2004. -------------------------------------------------------- USDA-APHIS RIN: 0579-AB78 Importation of Small Lots of Seed Without Phytosanitary Certificates -- APHIS Docket No. 02-119-1 STAGE: Proposed Rule ECONOMICALLY SIGNIFICANT: No RECEIVED: 02/23/2004 LEGAL DEADLINE: None COMPLETED: 04/19/2004 Consistent w/no change http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/library/OMBREGSC.html#USDA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Apr 30 20:11:14 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040430170935.019a7d88@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: saving seeds Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:11:07 -0700 I live in the same region as Cindi, who wrote >hi all, > >i was outside (another warm and sunny day here) just yesterday working >among my bulb plants and found that i have some hyacinthus with seed pods >on them. they have most likely done this in years past, but i never >paid much attention and didn't think about saving seeds. these plants >are H. orientalis and of course a hybrid so i am curious as to whether >the seeds in those pods would grow and would they come back true to the >form i already have? This year, my Dutch hyacinths also set seed, which they rarely do. I attribute this to the very unusual weather patterns here this winter, with unseasonably warm temperatures during some spells. To answer the question, yes, at least some of the seeds would probably produce plants, but no, they would not be identical to the parent selection. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From blweintraub1@earthlink.net Fri Apr 30 21:01:46 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.2.20040430184716.01f37ed0@earthlink.net> From: Barbara Weintraub Subject: Leucojum/Acis autumnale and Lewisia Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 19:02:01 -0600 Hi All, Jane writes: >In other words, USDA Zone 5 (average winter lows down to minus 20 F) is >not a likely garden home for any them, but if snow cover is VERY reliable, >you might try L. autumnale, which is very cheap to buy. I have just planted L. autumnale for the first time in hopes that the little clump of seedlings will build up enough energy to flower and then make it through the winter with protection. I have found that some plants that are commonly expected to die in our climate, don't, and that some that are expected to thrive, don't. Thus, I've become more of an experimental gardener over time. I'll let you know in a year how this species does. Incidentally, there was a discussion in January about Lewisia 'Little Plum.' Mine has developed several little rosettes and looks healthy. I don't see any flower buds yet. I'll post a photo when it blooms. For those unfamiliar with the changeable spring in the western high desert, we had spitting sleet this afternoon, with a possible freeze tonight, and 70 degrees a couple of days ago! - Barbara Leaf and Stone Barbara L. Weintraub Santa Fe, NM 87508-8769 7000 feet elevation blweintraub1@earthlink.net From scamp@earthlink.net Fri Apr 30 21:59:24 2004 Message-Id: <410-2200456115926150@earthlink.net> From: "Christine Council" Subject: What's Blooming Now--TOW Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 21:59:26 -0400 Paul, As you know I am new to the group also, I was a subscriber but fell in love with Oxalis and became a member. I wish you well; I understand illness because of my own personal problems. Plants and dirt help me to relax and tune out discomfort. Wishing you a complete recovery and blessings. Chris > [Original Message] > From: Paul Tyerman > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Date: 4/30/2004 8:36:26 AM > Subject: Re: [pbs] What's Blooming Now--TOW > > Howdy All, > > I'm not very active on the list now-a-days due to continuing ill health but > I thought I'd chime in with a "What's Blooming Now" report for here in > Canberra, Australia. We're still suffering badly from drought with around > 2 months since we had any registerable rain (we had 8mm on the 6th of > March). Normally our autumn rains would start in late March or early April > but there has been a complete failure of them this year which is > devastating given how bad our water situation is after the last few years > of lower rainfall. If we don't get rain soon then we're going to be in > serious trouble next summer, so here's hoping for some decent rain soon!! > On to what is blooming now ..... > > The first of the Galanthus are flowering now which is wonderful. G. > peshmenii has been out for a couple of weeks and G. reginae-olgae has > started this week as well. Numerous Crocus species are in flower already > such as goulimyi, hardiaticus, speciosus 'Oxonian', longiflorus, > laevigatus, nudiflorus, erotinus ssp salzmanii and pulchellus (which is a > full 2 months later than normal this year). Also flowering now is Crocus > sativus (the saffron crocus) which is wonderful as it has skipped the last > year or two. Quite a few flowers this year in both pots and the ground > which is lovely to see as the bright saffron threads stand out so well. > There are also a few otehr autumn and early winter crocus starting to > emerge but not close to flowering as yet. > > The nerines have all been putting on a good display this year. The species > N. bowdenii is starting to open a few early flowers right now (which N. > bowdenii 'Manina Forest Form' has already been open for a fortnight and is > 113cm tall which is pretty amazing) and N. filifolia is in full bloom. > Various hybrid nerines are in flower or bud now but there are a few that > don't appear to be going to flower this year which is a shame. N. undulata > is just about to open its first flowers (second year of flowering for me > from seed I purchased from Rachel at Silverhill a few years ago) and is a > delightfully delicate nerine that I just adore!! N. flexuosa 'Alba' > is sending up buds and will put on its usual display shortly. > > The last of the dahlias are still in flower (pretty badly hit by the heat > and dry, even with regular watering it just isn't the same) and the tree > dahlias (imperialis, excelsa and cultivars) are just about to open just in > time to be destroyed by the first frosts which are due any time now. Last > year our first frosts delayed until June so you just never know what will > happen this year. If current trends continue though I'd expect our first > frost within the next week to 10 days or so. > > Various Cyclamens are in flower or bud. Late C. hederifolium are still > blooming as well as some persicums, plus there are buds on some of the > coums, purpurascens and the odd flower still holding on on intaminatum. So > many other cyclamens are shooting as well though, so I figure there's buds > down amongst the leaves on a lot of them as well (mirabile, parvifolium, > cyprium, libanoticum and cilicicum to name a few. The leaves on most of > these are worth it even when not in flower, so this time of year is a joy > both from seeing things shooting and knowing they'll flower soon and having > the assorted wonderful leaves on so many of the cyclamen. > > There's still a few of the species geraniums in flower which add a bit of > colour, plus a number of different salvias, annual morning glory, Dicentra > macrocarpum (still holding on with a few flowers now having been in flower > since around November). Clematis cirrhosa varieties such as 'Lansdown > Jem', 'Freckles', 'Wisley Cream' and 'Balearicum' are all in flower to > varying amounts and a few very late flowers are still around on some of the > jackmanii hybrids as well (they've flowered at odd times all summer long > due to our strange weather). > > Hypoxis stellata is just opening its first few buds (VERY late this year) > and Polyxena longituba is putting on the best display it has ever done > (Mary Sue I think I can finally understand why you actually like it..... it > has never flowered like this for me before with virtually a solid mass of > flowers just above ground level with leaves poking through. Very pretty I > have to say for the first time ever about this species and I definitely > have to re-evaluate my thoughts on it. I figured you'd be happy to hear > this ). Haemanthus albiflos is flowering now and I am carefully > applying pollen I saved from my H. coccineus when they were in flower a > month or so ago (harvesting seed of them at the moment) and I am hoping to > successfully manage to get seeds and end up with varying shades of pink > hybrid offspring (one can but hope!!?). Massonia depressa is starting to > think about budding at the moment so it shouldn't be too long now. > > Trillium noses are sitting at ground level, awaiting the correct time to > come into growth. They may only still be there at ground level but they're > a nice reminder of the fact that they're there. Hellebores are just > starting to send up their first buds on some of the earlier plants, but > they're all a way off flowering yet. I'm sure there are numerous things > I've forgotten but it gives you all a pretty good idea of what is in flower > for me here at the moment down in this part of the Southern Hemisphere in > late autumn. It has been great to hear what everyone else around the list > has flowering in their various parts of the world. > > > Cheers. > > Paul Tyerman > Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 > mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au > > Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, > Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about > anything else that doesn't move!!!!! > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From rrgcjsg@bmts.com Fri Apr 30 22:21:51 2004 Message-Id: <009701c42f22$dcedebf0$0a8db7d8@c2i8j9> From: "Lee & Scott Gerow" Subject: Leucojum Hardiness-answers Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:20:19 -0400 Many thanks to Rodger, Jane and Barbara for their responses to my beginners questions-Leucojum Hardiness in zone 5a/b. I will try to locate some seeds for Leucojum autumnale, thank you Roger. Thank you and good luck with your Leucojum atumnale, Barbara and now off to the PBS "Photographs and Information" site, thank you Jane. Ronnalee Zone 5a/b -Tuesday- snow and hail. Thursday Temp- 23 & expecting highs of 14 and lows of 1-first of the week. From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Apr 30 23:17:28 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: New Anemone nemorosa cultivar Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 20:17:13 -0700 I have just discovered a new Anemone nemoros cultivar growing between 'Vestal' which is pure white with a tuft of small white petals in the centre, and 'Bracteata' which is an unstable flower that varies throughout the clump and from year to year. It is green, white, sometimes with a deep blue eye, and often includes white in leaves just under the flowers. The new plant has a fringe of green and white petals in the centre, but longer than those of 'Vestal'. It looks a bit like a sea anemone. I have put a picture of it on the Wiki Anemone page. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Anemone Has anyone seen a similar flower? -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil