From daffodil@wave.co.nz Sun Feb 1 04:03:28 2004 Message-Id: <010801c3e8a2$3f8fcac0$51c760cb@Dads> From: "Bill Dijk" Subject: TOW: Veltheimia Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 22:02:01 +1300 Hi Folks, I can't resist commenting on those beautiful, popular TOW Veltheimia's, another one of my favourite plants. I won't add anymore to the already well covered topic, I leave all the lyrical waxing to Michael Loos, another keen Veltheimia grower. Instead I will add a few Veltheimia hybrids raised and selected colour variations pictures to the Wiki. Go have a look and enjoy. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Veltheimia Best wishes, Bill D. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Dear All, > > Reporting from the wetter North Coast of California.... > > Several years ago my husband and I made a trip to New Zealand and were > invited to visit Bill and Willy Dijk in Tauranga. We had a wonderful time > and I came home wanting quite a lot of plants I wasn't already growing. > One of them was Bill's wonderful mixed color Veltheimia. > > Mary Sue From Jamievande@freenet.de Sun Feb 1 04:56:05 2004 Message-Id: <004301c3e8a9$e655de10$6802a8c0@Jamie2> From: "Jamie" Subject: TOW: Veltheimia Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 10:58:07 +0100 Bill, wonderful pictures! The variety of tone and pattern that is developing could ring in a renaissance for Veltheimia as a house plant! Wish my seedlings were a bit further along! Ciao, all, Jamie V. Cologne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Dijk" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] TOW: Veltheimia > Hi Folks, > > I can't resist commenting on those beautiful, popular TOW Veltheimia's, > another one of my favourite plants. > I won't add anymore to the already well covered topic, I leave all the > lyrical waxing to Michael Loos, another keen Veltheimia grower. > Instead I will add a few Veltheimia hybrids raised and selected colour > variations pictures to the Wiki. > Go have a look and enjoy. > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Veltheimia > > Best wishes, > > Bill D. > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Dear All, > > > > Reporting from the wetter North Coast of California.... > > > > Several years ago my husband and I made a trip to New Zealand and were > > invited to visit Bill and Willy Dijk in Tauranga. We had a wonderful time > > and I came home wanting quite a lot of plants I wasn't already growing. > > One of them was Bill's wonderful mixed color Veltheimia. > > > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From dells@voicenet.com Sun Feb 1 10:15:57 2004 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 55 CLOSED Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:16:35 -0500 Dear All, Packages will go out early in this week. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From msittner@mcn.org Sun Feb 1 11:59:22 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040201085520.018dcbf0@mail.mcn.org> From: James Waddick (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Galanthus--TOW Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 08:58:50 -0800 Dear PBS and Alpine-L; Welcome to a combined Topic of the Week (TOW). We hope you have read the earlier posting about how these topics will be presented in February. Enjoy the first below. Mary Sue and Jim An admitted 'Galanthophile', John Grimshaw is also well known as an expert in East Africa Ecology, plant geographer and writer. He is one of the coauthors of the most current book on snowdrops and is garden advisor at Colesbourne Gardens one of the foremost public snowdrop displays. February is his 'busy' month so direct replies may be delayed. ______________________________ Galanthus - Pacific Bulb Society and Alpine Topic opf the Week by John Grimshaw Ah hush! Tread softly through the rime, For there will be a blackbird singing, or a thrush. Like coloured beads the elmbuds flush: All the trees dream of leaves and flowers and light. And see! The northern bank is much more white Than frosty grass, for now is snowdrop time. Mary Webb Snowdrop Time It is now snowdrop time indeed. For weeks the shoots have been emerging, and the clumps becoming more visible. Some have been out for weeks, others are over, but February is really snowdrop time in England, when the majority of snowdrops are in full flower. It is the shortest and, for galanthophiles, the busiest month of the year. Non-gardeners think it odd when I say that February is my busiest time, and even odder when they get the one-word explanation: snowdrops. To the non-gardener and, I fear, sometimes to gardeners as well, snowdrops are just little white flowers that appear when its too cold to think of going outside. They all look the same, to such people. With luck, they'll know of singles and doubles, and some will have a 'giant' snowdrop in their own or friends' garden; at least they may recognize that there are differences. It is the realization that snowdrops are so variable that sparks an interest that may lead to full-blown galanthophilia. Each year, here at Colesbourne Park, we host large numbers of visitors who come to see our snowdrops. It's not always clear why they come - often it's just for something to do - but once we take the time to explain the differences between them, they become fascinated, and can be seen fervently bending down to examine the flowers. The basic model snowdrop flower is very easy to understand, and occurs in all 19 species of the genus Galanthus. The flower has three large 'petals' - correctly the outer perianth segments, that are usually pure white. When the flower is closed during cold weather these wrap around each other to make a tear-drop shaped flower, but when it is warmer, they expand and open, lifting up to reveal the whorl of three inner perianth segments within the flower. The inner segments are much shorter than the outer whorl, and form a stiff little tube in the centre of the flower. On the outer surface they bear a distinctive green marking of varying extent and shape, usually at the apex of the segment; on their inner surface they are ridged, with green lines between the ridges. The tip of the inner segment is almost always notched. The inner segments surround a cone of bright yellow anthers, which in turn surround the stigma. All the floral parts are attached to the ovary, a rounded green organ above the outer segments. The flower is borne on a fine stalk, the pedicel, which emerges from the main stem or scape. In bud the flower is held within the spathe, a fine membrane connected to two spathe valves at the top of the scape: it is erect in bud, but as it bursts from the spathe the flower hangs downwards and assumes the familiar nodding position. If all 19 species of Galanthus have similar flowers, where does the variation come in? First there is the size. Some individuals may have larger, or smaller, flowers than the average. The shape, especially of the outer segments, can differ, some being wider or narrower, longer or shorter, resulting in a different outline to the flower. The outer segments, usually white, may bear green markings at their tips, or over almost their entire extent: occasionally they may even resemble the inner segments in shape, complete with the notch. A great deal of variation occurs in the green marking on the outer face of the inner segment. In many snowdrops the marking is a simple ^ shape, often called an 'inverted V' or 'apical V', above and following the outline of the notch. This may be wider or narrower, sometimes being reduced to a couple of dots, or forming quite a broad band. A simple ^ is characteristic of the common snowdrop, Galanthus nivalis, as well as G. plicatus, G. reginae-olgae and several of the rarer species. In G. ikariae the marks looks square and chunky, covering about half of the segment. In others, particularly G. elwesii var. elwesii, G. gracilis and G. plicatus ssp. byzantinus there is an additional band of green above (as you look at a pendulous flower) the apical V, giving two distinct markings. G. elwesii varies considerably, however, and ranges from individuals with only a single inverted V marking (known as var. monostictus) to those in which the two marks unite, sometimes colouring the whole surface in green (also var. elwesii). The pattern of inner segment markings is remarkably constant and can be used to reliably identify cultivars. A similar range of markings can be found in the numerous hybrids. Colour varies somewhat in the inner segment markings, from pale to very deep green, usually being aptly described as mid-green, however. An occasional variation, very much sought after, is for the markings, and usually the ovary as well, to be yellow, or yellowish green. We get visitors hunting the 'yellow snowdrops' who clearly think that they're looking for something tinted like a daffodil; they can be a bit disappointed when the reality is shown them. But yellow markings make for a very pretty snowdrop and variants such as G. nivalis Sandersii Group, G. plicatus 'Wendy's Gold' and G. elwesii 'Carolyn Elwes' are very popular. Another rare variation is for the inner segments to lack any markings; these are known as albinoes. Not uncommon is the situation where the characteristic inner segments are replaced by what appear to be outer segments - longer and pure white, with no green markings or notch. Such are referred to as poculiforms, a curious word derived from the Latin for a little cup, often shortened by galanthophiles to 'pocs.' The outer segments may have green markings on them, usually close to the tip, but sometimes spreading over the entire segment. Green-tipped plants were formerly regarded as rather rare freaks, but it is becoming apparent that they are a normal part of snowdrop variation and not all that unusual in wild populations. The best known remains G. nivalis 'Viridapice', a vigorous plant and a good doer that is now often available in the dry bulb catalogues. Similar, but differing in its elongated, leafy spathe valves is the amusing 'Scharlockii'. The two sometimes intergrade. In G. elwesii, 'Comet' has good green tips in some years, but not at all in others; the feature is erratic in appearance in this species. 'Comet' is excellent regardless, having large flowers held on elongated pedicels. A long pedicel is usually regarded as adding elegance to the flower. 'Magnet' was the first of this kind to be named, and now, at over 100 years of age, it is still going strong. 'Galatea' is another good one; the angle of kink in the pedicel is what tells them apart. Double flowered snowdrops have been known for 300 years or more, in the shape of G. nivalis 'Flore Pleno', a wonderfully vigorous plant that spreads through woodland almost as easily as its single counterpart. it is sometimes scoffed at by purists who think its multiplication of inner segments is messy, but as a garden plant it is excellent. Although it does not set seed, its pollen is fertile and it is believed that almost all double snowdrop hybrids are descended from it. These include the series known as Greatorex doubles, deliberately raised from 'Flore Pleno' pollen on a G. plicatus stigma, and the beautiful 'Hill Poe' with 5 outer segments and perfectly whorled inner segments. The Greatorex Doubles are mostly named after Shakespearian heroines, 'Ophelia', 'Desdemona', 'Titania' and the like and are rather difficult to identify. They are all good vigorous plants, however. Choice things often arise when 'Flore Pleno' crosses with G. elwesii, including the neat round flowers of 'Richard Ayres' and 'Mrs Wrightson's Double'. In addition to the floral characteristics, the leaves of snowdrops are important for achieving an identification. G. nivalis and its allies tend to have narrow leaves with parallel margins; a feature known as applanate vernation. In G. plicatus, which can have rather broader leaves, the edge of the leaf is neatly folded back under the blade - explicative vernation, most clearly seen when the leaves are young, or later, at their base. In G. elwesii and its allies, the leaves are arranged so that the outer one wraps around the inner, giving two crescents if the shoot were to be cut in transverse section. This is supervolute vernation. (Vernation is the word for the arrangement of leaves in bud). In pure species these categories are very reliable and give an immediate indication of what it may, or cannot be. In hybrids, however, things become more complicated, because the various patterns combine in sometimes odd ways. For example, in 'S.Arnott', a classic hybrid between G. nivalis and G. plicatus, one margin of the four possible on two linear leaves is explicative, i.e. folded back, while 'George Elwes', a cross between G. plicatus x G. elwesii.has supervolute vernation, but the inner leaf has explicative margins! While these are the details that must be looked for and appreciated as a good galanthophile, it is important never to lose sight of snowdrops as objects of beauty. I fear that some of my galanthophilic friends are so busy inspecting inner segments and leaf margins that they are blind to the beauty of the plants they are looking at, but not seeing. Freaks and curiosities are all very well, but what is more important is that hard-to-define entity, 'a good garden plant.' I have my own ideas, but it would be more interesting if Alpine-Elves would suggest their own 5 or 10 best garden snowdrops during the course of this week. I am sure that the selection will be interesting. For further reading on snowdrops, I can only recommend Snowdrops, by Matt Bishop, Aaron Davis and myself, published by the Griffin Press. It is available from the NARGS bookstore, AGS Publications and the RHS bookshop, which are probably the easiest sources of copies for gardeners. As an insider trading tip, stocks are diminishing quickly, and there are no plans to reprint. The book 'Snowdrops', The Griffin Press, is available in the US from Arnold Trachtenberg (with email address shown in a way to avoid spam), arnold at nj.rr.com. And the earlier book, The Genus Galanthus by A.P. Davis from Roy. Bot. Gard., Kew and Timber Press. John Grimshaw Gardens Cottage, Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham, Gloucestershire England Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com Sun Feb 1 13:21:04 2004 Message-Id: From: Nan Sterman Subject: Why doesn't lycoris bloom Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 10:20:49 -0800 I have two good sized clumps of lycoris that have been in the ground for several years - put out nice foliage but never bloom. Any suggestions? Nan in San Diego area -- +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Nan Sterman Plant Soup (TM) PO Box 231034 Encinitas, CA 92023 760.634.2902 (voice) Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com 760.634.2957 (fax) +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 1 13:31:58 2004 Message-Id: <401D4CE7.AE988090@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Why doesn't lycoris bloom Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 11:00:55 -0800 Dear Nan Give them potash and phosphate = )-10-10, to encourage less foliage but more bud initiation. John E. Bryan Nan Sterman wrote: > > I have two good sized clumps of lycoris that have been in the ground > for several years - put out nice foliage but never bloom. Any > suggestions? > > Nan in San Diego area > -- > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= > > Nan Sterman Plant Soup (TM) > PO Box 231034 > Encinitas, CA 92023 760.634.2902 (voice) > Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com 760.634.2957 (fax) > > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun Feb 1 14:11:47 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Why doesn't lycoris bloom Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:11:22 -0600 >I have two good sized clumps of lycoris that have been in the ground >for several years - put out nice foliage but never bloom. Any >suggestions? > >Nan in San Diego area Dear Nan; It depends on the species. What is yours? The common L. squamigera generally does not bloom well in mild climates, while L. radiata does great. Are they in sun or shade? More info. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Sun Feb 1 14:30:13 2004 Message-Id: <401D5416.3050107@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Why doesn't lycoris bloom Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 13:31:34 -0600 Nan: Have they ever bloomed? If they bloomed previously but have quit, they are too crowded. Should be lifted and seperated every 7-10 years. Nan Sterman wrote: > I have two good sized clumps of lycoris that have been in the ground > for several years - put out nice foliage but never bloom. Any > suggestions? > > Nan in San Diego area -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-366-4968 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From jimreese1@comcast.net Sun Feb 1 14:40:35 2004 Message-Id: From: "Jim Reese" Subject: Gardening catalogs Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:39:34 -0600 Just something for the winter "wishing I was Gardening times" Jim http://mailordergardening.com/ From Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com Sun Feb 1 15:20:51 2004 Message-Id: From: Nan Sterman Subject: Why doesn't lycoris bloom Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 12:20:21 -0800 >Nan: > >Have they ever bloomed? If they bloomed previously but have quit, >they are too crowded. Should be lifted and seperated every 7-10 >years. Nope, never bloomed. Clumps are about 12" across in foliage. > >Nan Sterman wrote: > >>I have two good sized clumps of lycoris that have been in the >>ground for several years - put out nice foliage but never bloom. >>Any suggestions? >> >>Nan in San Diego area > > >-- >Mr. Kelly M. Irvin >The Bulbmeister >4407 Town Vu Road >Bentonville, AR 72712 >479-366-4968 > >USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b > >E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com >Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ >Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php -- +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Nan Sterman Plant Soup (TM) PO Box 231034 Encinitas, CA 92023 760.634.2902 (voice) Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com 760.634.2957 (fax) +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Sun Feb 1 15:33:30 2004 Message-Id: <401D62E9.6010708@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Why doesn't lycoris bloom Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 14:34:49 -0600 Nan: If you were the one to plant them, and you know you didn't crowd them in the first place, chances are you should consider Jim's questions and comments. For instance, a Lycoris squamigera (probably any spring foliage Lycoris), although advertised, including by me, to grow to as warm as zone 9, may not be inclined to bloom in that warm a zone. None of the spring foliage are recommended past zone 9. Finally, your particular location, being probably quite different in seasonal water cycles, than the natural habitat of Lycoris, might, maybe, could be detrimental to bloom??? If the foliage is getting scorched by the time April rolls around due to high light intensity, maybe that could affect bloom performance??? Just some thoughts. Nan Sterman wrote: >> Nan: >> >> Have they ever bloomed? If they bloomed previously but have quit, >> they are too crowded. Should be lifted and seperated every 7-10 years. > > > Nope, never bloomed. Clumps are about 12" across in foliage. > >> >> Nan Sterman wrote: >> >>> I have two good sized clumps of lycoris that have been in the ground >>> for several years - put out nice foliage but never bloom. Any >>> suggestions? >>> >>> Nan in San Diego area >> >> >> >> -- >> Mr. Kelly M. Irvin >> The Bulbmeister >> 4407 Town Vu Road >> Bentonville, AR 72712 >> 479-366-4968 >> >> USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b >> >> E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com >> Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ >> Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-366-4968 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun Feb 1 16:15:29 2004 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Why doesn't lycoris bloom Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:15:27 +0000 Dear Nan et al: In my experience Lycorises do not bloom for years for the simple reason that people would share or sell offsets and seldom the mother blooming plant. After a few seasons of being grown on they will flower for years to come. OF course if they increase rapidly the clump will lift the bulbs to unsuitable depths and the whole group will produce no further blooms. BUT, to this same forum Jim Waddick brought the most sound piece of information on Lycorises in bulb cultivation history. After seeing them in the wild in China he advised on watering copiously and giving them shady positions. We have been growing them like Nerines whcih Jim demonstrated they aren't. Best Alberto _________________________________________________________________ MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/ From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Feb 1 17:24:00 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040201142150.00b9a7f0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: New photos on wiki Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 14:23:52 -0800 Pursuant to the recent discussion I have posted a photo of Leontochir ovallei, and also one of Iris stenophylla subsp. allisonii to accompany one of the same previously posted by Rob Hamilton. The iris is in flower today, Feb. 1, in a bulb frame -- every year the very first iris. I don't know if the link to the Leontochir photo will work because I had to put the note in the Alstroemeria information page, this being a monotypic genus. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Leontochir_ovallei.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Iris_stenophylla.jpg Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon USA From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sun Feb 1 20:25:22 2004 Message-Id: <117.2e68425e.2d4f00f7@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: African Crinum spp., don't bother reading unless a confirmed Crinum nut Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 20:25:11 EST Hi, I've been compiling a list of African (and Madagascar) species of Crinum. It is possible there are over 70. I've primarily relied upon the work of Les Hannibal and David Lehmiller. I cannot say for sure that the list is accurate in the sense it includes all Crinum species of Africa, or that it does not have errors or duplicates. I'm writing to know if any of you can refer me to sources of seed for these species. I have some contacts, and (of course) try to buy what I can from Silverhill seeds. Nonetheless, I have many dozens of species to go and many more subspecies and varieties as well. Let me know if you know of sources of the following; seeds are appreciated because I suppose I will have the years and because I'm unwilling to buy them all as bulbs. Cordially, African Crinum species, preliminary list ------------------------------------------------------------- abyssinicum acaule album (= yemense) amboense balkianum baumii biflorum brachynema broussonetii bulbispermum buphanoides campanulatum carolo-schmidtii confusum cordofanum crassicaule (= foetidum) crassipes distichum euchrophyllum filifolium fimbriatulum firmifolium forbesii (= delagoense) giessi glaucum graminicola harmsii hildebrandtii humilis jagus kalahariense kirkii koutiense lanceii lane-poolei leucophyllum lineare longitubum lugardiae macowanii majakallense mauritanum modestum moorei natans nerinoides (= Ammocharis nerinoides) nordaliae nubicum ondogense ornatum paludosum pauciflorum paxtonii piliferum poggeii politicofolium purpurascens rattrayii rautanenianum scabrum schimperi scillifolia stuhlmanii subcernuum tetrapoideum trifidum variablile vassei veroorniae walteri (= minimum) welwitschii wimbushii yuccaeides zeylanicum From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Sun Feb 1 21:13:50 2004 Message-Id: <000701c3e932$30ea8ba0$a8a079a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Digital cameras Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 18:13:45 -0800 Dear All: I know we have discussed digital cameras before, but technology marches on, and I am wondering if there are any opinions as to the best reasonably priced digital camera for photographing flowers. Diana From sheila1@iinet.net.au Mon Feb 2 01:55:40 2004 Message-Id: <00e801c3e958$bf2ac170$38bf3bcb@Burrow> From: "sheilab" Subject: Digital cameras Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 14:49:45 +0800 Nikon CoolPix. Nikon Coolpix 4500 is an excellent macro camera. I use the Coolpix 5000 which is hard to get hold of now. Nikon are bringing out the Coolpix 8700 this year which will be an 8 megapixel camera with a fantastic macro range from as close as 3cm (1.2 in.). http://www.dpreview.com/news/0401/04012805nikoncp8700.asp ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana chapman" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 10:13 AM Subject: [pbs] Digital cameras From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon Feb 2 02:18:28 2004 Message-Id: <001e01c3e95c$c92e1790$52d49851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Digital cameras Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 07:18:40 -0000 I use a Nikon coolpix 5000 which is very hard to use. The hand book is so hard to follow. A friends husband got one for a trip to the US and read the hand book several times while on the 'plane. He set mine for 4 settings - full sun, cloudy, automatic and digitising slides. I use it most of the time on the automatic setting. Mark N Ireland From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Mon Feb 2 06:52:04 2004 Message-Id: From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Ipheion uniflorum 'Alberto Castillo' images added to Wiki Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 06:51:55 EST http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Ipheion_uniflorum_Alberto_Castillo1.j pg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Ipheion_uniflorum_Alberto_Castillo.jp g Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From jshields104@insightbb.com Mon Feb 2 09:24:28 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040202090457.00b0d730@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Digital cameras Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 09:24:21 -0500 Hi all, When choosing a digital camera, you need to be aware that the top of the line digitals are just as complicated and just as powerful as top of the line film cameras. If you don't know what an f-stop is, if you don't understand the relationship between f-stop, shutter speed, and depth of field, you will have trouble with a high-end digital. My favorite camera (film) is a Nikon FM2 single-lens reflex (SLR) shooting 35-mm film. It can be operated in fully manual mode. My digital camera is an older Olympus D-620L single-lens reflex, through-the-lens viewfinder. It does not have adjustable f-stops/shutter speed, so I cannot control depth of field. It has automatic focus, so it sometimes focuses on the wrong part of the picture. Still, I can get by with it's 1.4-Megapixel image and some of the shortcomings. If I want a top quality picture, I use the Nikon FM2. I have a slide/film scanner, also from Nikon, that can generate a digital image of 1800 X 1200 pixels (2.1 megapixels) from a 35-mm slide or film image. This image is larger than the usual PC monitor screen at 1260 X 1024 pixels resolution. As a TIFF file, it takes up over 3 MB of disk space. Do you really want a 5-megapixel digital camera? If you are a point-and-shoot film camera photographer, you should probably start off with a point-and-shoot digital camera. For purposes of web pages and e-mail sharing, my 1.4 megapixel images have to be trimmed down drastically. Still, digital photography is the wave of the future. Traditional film is an endangered species. Whether you use a film camera or a digital camera, you need to match your needs and your skills with the camera's features and capabilties. A mis-match at either end will result in an unhappy photographer and unsatisfactory pictures. Best wishes, Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From vikingdoc@earthlink.net Mon Feb 2 10:33:42 2004 Message-Id: <410-220042121534070@earthlink.net> From: "Kathy Stokmanis" Subject: Galanthus--TOW Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 07:34:00 -0800 This is my first year growing Galanthus (thank you, PBS BX). I don't know why I haven't grown it before. It's been in bloom for almost three weeks now. Lovely. I have a question about pest resistance, though. Currently they are in pots because I have a bad vole problem and because I wanted to keep an eye on them until I know more about them. Are they unappealing to voles, gophers, deer, or am I just providing dessert if I plant them in the ground uncaged? Kathy Stokmanis vikingdoc@earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. From jshields104@insightbb.com Mon Feb 2 10:56:39 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040202103916.00b13430@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Galanthus--TOW Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:56:37 -0500 Hi Kathy, Galanthus are in the Amaryllis Family (Amaryllidaceae). All the plants in the Amaryllidaceae contain toxic, unpleasant tasting alkaloids, especially in the bulbs. So bulbs like Narcissus are almost immune to predation by voles, mice, squirrels, and gophers. The above-ground parts may not be so unpleasant tasting and they may be nibbled by rabbits or deer. Tell us where in the world you live, and we can suggest which species will do best in the ground and which in containers. For instance, here in central Indiana (USDA cold zone 5, AHS heat zone ca 6), I grow some in the ground and they love it (in the shade, not in full sun). However, I grow Galanthus reginae-olgae in a pot in the greenhouse, because it is likely to be tender outdoors in the ground. Best regards, Jim Shields At 07:34 AM 2/2/2004 -0800, you wrote: >........I have a question about pest resistance, though. Currently they >are in pots because I have a bad vole problem and because I wanted to keep >an eye on them until I know more about them. Are they unappealing to >voles, gophers, deer, or am I just providing dessert if I plant them in >the ground uncaged? > >Kathy Stokmanis ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Mon Feb 2 11:13:29 2004 Message-Id: <002601c3e9a7$7c5dfb10$b8a879a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Digital cameras Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 08:13:23 -0800 Hi Jim: Many thanks for the advice. I am NOT experienced with photography, and I am not likely to get interested. I just want photographs of my plants, so I absolutely don't want the high-end cameras. I did have a Koolpix 4000 for a short while, and found it quite terrifying. I really want something easy to use. Taking pictures of pollen grans or the hairs on a bee's leg isn't what I want, but I do want to get within two to three inches and get a good picture. For me, I need something that is not bulky, easy to understand and easy to use otherwise I won't use it. When I was young I bought a good camera to take on multi-day rock climbs to get photographs of the spectacular settings, I took it twice and it stayed in the haul bag almost all of the time. I never used it again. Best. Diana From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Mon Feb 2 11:12:30 2004 Message-Id: <401E7740.9040005@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Digital cameras Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:13:52 -0600 Diana: You might want to at least look into the features of a Minolta DiMage 7i or later model. I, in my searching, settled on this based on combinations of price and features. It can be treated as a fully automatic camera or fully manual with a true mechanical manual focus adjustment if desired. The macro is good but probably not as good as the Nikon. On the other hand, this can probably also easily fixed with inexpensive macro rings. It has a hot shoe for flash attachment if you don't want to use built in. At least 5 Megapixel. You probably only need about 3 if you don't ever intend to use for print publishing. 5MP will do a passable, publishable 8x10 for print, 3 MP will not. The viewfinder is actually digitized, but views through the lens (SLR). You can do just about anything with it. Best just to go find a website with specs to see all features. The first model, model 7, was praised for features but considered very slow with autofocus. The 7i made significant improvements, although, I'm not happy with autofocus in situations requiring a quick shudder release. The 7hi???, I think it is, is supposed to be further refined. Finally, I like that it feels like a regular 35mm in my hands, and the most needed manual controls are easy to access. Most of the images I have shown in my Gallery were taken with my 7i, so that might be a reference for trueness to color, but I don't think that is a big issue with any of the 3+ MP cameras built in the last year. If you are looking for contest quality print publishable images, you would probably have to go to a very high end digital camera for several thousand dollars, and, if you spoke to a professional photographer, s/he would probably still say you can't get the quality possible with 35mm. If you are like me and want to have the capability to go as demanding as 8x10 publishable, you can probably find something (5 MP) very good for between $750-3000 (sometimes the same camera at a different vendor). For your information, if I had had the money, I might have looked harder at the Olympus E-10 two years ago. Very high quality in every way camera for very good price. It's of course been replaced by new generation(s). You should visit, http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/default.asp?view=rating, in my opinion, to get more detailed answers and for making a choice based on features most important to you. I believe, in the past year, too many really good 5 MP cameras have entered the market to offer more advice than to direct you to good review sources, so you can pick the camera that offers the best combination of features you, in particular, are interested in. -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-366-4968 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From Jamievande@freenet.de Mon Feb 2 11:34:58 2004 Message-Id: <012601c3e9aa$ca671050$6802a8c0@Jamie2> From: "Jamie" Subject: Digital cameras Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 17:37:03 +0100 Diana, take a look at the Canon PowerShot series. I have the A40, with 2M pixels and find it great for in the garden. Sure, it could do closer close-ups, etc., but the bees knees are not my subject, usually! Jamie V. Cologne ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana chapman" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Digital cameras > Hi Jim: > > Many thanks for the advice. I am NOT experienced with photography, and I am > not likely to get interested. I just want photographs of my plants, so I > absolutely don't want the high-end cameras. I did have a Koolpix 4000 for a > short while, and found it quite terrifying. I really want something easy to > use. Taking pictures of pollen grans or the hairs on a bee's leg isn't what > I want, but I do want to get within two to three inches and get a good > picture. For me, I need something that is not bulky, easy to understand and > easy to use otherwise I won't use it. When I was young I bought a good > camera to take on multi-day rock climbs to get photographs of the > spectacular settings, I took it twice and it stayed in the haul bag almost > all of the time. I never used it again. > > Best. > > Diana > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Mon Feb 2 13:47:43 2004 Message-Id: <003501c3e9bd$08efcd50$4d0ce150@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Galanthus--TOW pests Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 18:00:30 -0000 Luckily, as Jim Shields says, snowdrops are obnoxious to rodents and deer, etc. Slugs will occasionally graze them, especially when newly planted 'in the green', so appropriate measures should be taken. Pheasants are annoying as they tweak off the heads, but do not usually damage the plants. We have a lot of pheasants here. John Grimshaw Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk From: "Kathy Stokmanis" > > I have a question about pest resistance, though. Currently they are in pots because I have a bad vole problem and because I wanted to keep an eye on them until I know more about them. Are they unappealing to voles, gophers, deer, or am I just providing dessert if I plant them in the ground uncaged? > From vikingdoc@earthlink.net Mon Feb 2 13:23:41 2004 Message-Id: <410-22004212182358910@earthlink.net> From: "Kathy Stokmanis" Subject: Galanthus--TOW Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:23:58 -0800 Hi, Jim and everyone, Thank you for your response to my question. I am a neophyte at geophyte nomenclature and classifications but I've happily grown the more common bulbs all of my life. Usually I post where I live since to me it's one of the very interesting items of information in other peoples' posts and has a direct bearing on how they grow geophytes. This list is a goldmine of information and it's the first thing I log on to every morning. The BX offering I received is Galanthus elwesii. I would be more worried about Galanthus not getting enough winter chill rather than it being too cold. I live in the very beautiful Sierra Nevada foothills in Northern California, Sunset zone 7. But the town rises over 1000 feet in elevation and I'm in the so-called Banana Belt, where citrus can be grown. Over my three years of observation, the temperature has not dropped below 25 degrees F so I think it's zone 8 or even 9 in protected spots. We have not had snow for two years, only rain--50 to 70 inches per year--with the occasional frost. Summer gets 100 degrees plus for weeks on end and is completely dry--Mediterranean climate. More information than you wanted to know, I'm sure, but I love growing things here. Everything seems to thrive and geophytes are perfect because of the many that require little or no water during the summer. Another problem for me is placement for such a tiny plant as Galanthus. We live in a pine forest with very tall trees, all of which start dropping needles in fall and continuing through winter. Even in the sunny areas plants can easily smother under the load, especially when it rains (much of the time) and I am not the most persistent raker. Kathy Stokmanis Where Galanthus elwesii and Narcissus cantabricus ssp. foliosus (sp?) are the only geophytes currently in flower, both PBS BX offerings. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Feb 2 15:56:24 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040202103929.03020b28@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Galanthus--TOW Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:53:45 -0800 Kathy Stokmanis did not indicate where she lives, but her mentioning gophers in her question about predators suggests she is in western North America. In my experience snowdrops are not preyed on by mammals of any kind, or by slugs. Their main predator is the large bulb fly, or narcissus fly, which is widespread in the western USA and, I assume, western Canada, as well as in Britain and Europe; I don't know if it is in other places. Snowdrops planted in shady areas seem to be protected from these insects to some extent, as do narcissus. Valuable snowdrops can be covered with Reemay or some other cover that is permeable to air but not to insects when they are through flowering and the leaves begin to soften, but before they turn yellow. I have now grouped my potted snowdrops to facilitate this and after just one year had almost no infestation. North American gardeners who wish to acquire connoisseurs' Galanthus can buy them from the Temple Nursery, Box 591, Trumansburg, NY 14886; catalog $2, no e-mail. Mr. Lyman, the proprietor, ships them "in the green" (in growth) after the older British method, but all those I bought survived. The prices are very, very high, but I felt I ought to buy some to thank Mr. Lyman for contributing to the Rock Garden Quarterly. (There is a lesson in that for some of you -- start writing and send your catalogs, though I won't go so far as to buy a Crinum or Lycoris!) My own summer list includes a few species and cultivars, shipped dormant in slightly moist medium, and no, I won't have G. reginae-olgae in 2004, you must wait until 2005 and make juju against the bulb fly. In flower here on February 1 are Galanthus fosteri, 'Magnet', 'Atkinsii', G. nivalis 'Simplex' (whatever that is), G. plicatus 'Dionysus', and G. elwesii (larger form) in the garden, and quite a number of smaller or recently acquired ones in pots. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From franc@oregonfast.net Mon Feb 2 14:20:24 2004 Message-Id: <401EA36D.7050606@oregonfast.net> From: Sam Franc Subject: Digital cameras Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 11:22:21 -0800 It depends on what you need and what you want to spend. I was going to get an expensive 5 megapixal one. But I researched the whole subject and talked to several pros and I settled for a Canon A60. 2 mp. It is very good for my uses. It has several automatic settings and I can go manual if I need to. It can focus down to a couple of inches and takes very good pics. My only con is the slow autofocus on indoor shots. But I probably have not read the manual well enough for them. All of them have a complicated control system for manual shots. Just have to learn it. As you take more pics you become more facile. There are several sites that do good reviews of all the digitals. Digital camera reviews and community at PCPhotoREVIEW.com Digital Camera Reviews and News: Digital Photography Review: Forums, Glossary, FAQ Good luck, Sam in Oregon From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon Feb 2 14:23:08 2004 Message-Id: <009f01c3e9c2$0af1eca0$533c2bd9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Galanthus--TOW pests Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:23:29 -0000 > > I have a question about pest resistance A major pest to snowdrops is the Narcissus fly http://www.snowdropinfo.com/narcissus-fly.html Mark N Ireland From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon Feb 2 14:33:46 2004 Message-Id: <00a001c3e9c3$89092bc0$533c2bd9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Galanthus--TOW Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:34:11 -0000 My top 10 snowdrops are in order of flowering - G. reginae-olgae 'Cambridge' http://www.snowdropinfo.com/reginae-cambridge.html G. 'Castlegar' http://www.snowdropinfo.com/castlegar.html G. plicatus 'Three Ships' http://www.snowdropinfo.com/plicatus-three-ships.htm G. plicatus unknown cultivar http://www.snowdropinfo.com/plicatus-unknown.html G. elwesii 'Deer Slot' http://www.snowdropinfo.com/elwesii-deer-slot.html G. 'John Gray' http://www.snowdropinfo.com/john-gray.html G. 'Robin Hood' http://www.snowdropinfo.com/robin-hood.html G. nivalis 'Sandersii' http://www.snowdropinfo.com/nivalis-sandersii.html G. plicatus 'Bill Clarke' http://www.snowdropinfo.com/plicatus-bill-clarke.html G. 'The Whopper' http://www.snowdropinfo.com/the-whopper.html Mark N Ireland From ajbroome@xtra.co.nz Mon Feb 2 14:39:05 2004 Message-Id: <20040202193859.WPND9867.web2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> From: Subject: Digital cameras Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 8:38:59 +1300 Jamie said... > ... take a look at the Canon PowerShot series. I have the > A40, with 2M pixels and find it great for in the > garden... All my most recent pictures at http://www.oxalis.50megs.com have been taken using an A40 I find it an excellent camera for general use. They (or more recent equivalents) are very reasonably priced for their features, mine was something like US$300 a year ago but should be cheaper now. If you turn the camera on, point it at something and push the button, you'll get a photo - which is encouraging when you're starting out. Using the macro and zoom (but still on automatic) I get some good flower photos. In manual mode there are plenty of things to play around with if you have the time and/or inclination. Of course, there are many good cameras on the market these days, I've used Nikon CoolPix 950s a lot and found them excellent too (although significantly more expensive at the time). I've seen some truely excellent flower photos taken with Ricoh cameras too. I still like my Canon, all things considered. Andrew, in NZ. From Theladygardens@aol.com Mon Feb 2 14:57:08 2004 Message-Id: <81.447230a.2d500589@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Digital cameras Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 14:56:57 EST OK, true confession, I did get an Olympus Stylus 400 for Christmas. Life has been so hectic I haven't even had time to read the manual. I do like to photograph pollen and bees knees but know my limits. Point and shoot. Liked Jim's advise very much and actually did follow it when making my selection, I think. My granddaughter age 14 is visiting for a couple of days and I am hoping she will show me how to use it as I still haven't found the time to read the manual. I have to learn to use it soon, my main bloom season is end of March and I already have leucojeum, anemone, many narcissus in bloom and lots of other interesting things. Carolyn in Los Gatos, CA From decoy.farm@zetnet.co.uk Mon Feb 2 18:07:23 2004 Message-Id: <2004020221022982433@zetnet.co.uk> From: Janet Galpin and Oliver Patterson Subject: Digital cameras Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 21:02:29 GMT The message <002601c3e9a7$7c5dfb10$b8a879a5@DJ9SK221> from "diana chapman" contains these words: > Hi Jim: > Many thanks for the advice. I am NOT experienced with photography, and I am > not likely to get interested. I just want photographs of my plants, so I > absolutely don't want the high-end cameras. I did have a Koolpix 4000 for a > short while, and found it quite terrifying. I really want something easy to > use. Taking pictures of pollen grans or the hairs on a bee's leg isn't what > I want, but I do want to get within two to three inches and get a good > picture. For me, I need something that is not bulky, easy to understand and > easy to use otherwise I won't use it. When I was young I bought a good > camera to take on multi-day rock climbs to get photographs of the > spectacular settings, I took it twice and it stayed in the haul bag almost > all of the time. I never used it again. > Best. > Diana Nikon colpix range seem to be particularly recommended for plant photogrraphy because they have such a goof close-up facility. I have the Nikon Coolpix 4300 which is down-market a bit from some of the ones mentioned. I'm not sure how it compares with the 400 you mention but I find it really straightforward. I think it's brilliant because it's a happy medium between the point-and-shoot cameras and the more complicated ones. You can just use it on auto which is dead simple or you can be a bit more adventurous if you want to. Janet From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Mon Feb 2 16:34:53 2004 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476B97601@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Galanthus--TOW Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:34:49 -0600 Most of the existing plantings at the Chicago Botanic Garden were purchased years ago from wholesalers as Galanthus nivalis. We have the most wonderful, if frustrating to inventory, mix of species ranging from those with very narrow foliage typical of G. nivalis to plants with very broad foliage, arrangement of the leaves feature many of the characteristics cited in the introduction. Flowering is also very variable as to size, shape and timing; as is fragrance. In the Chicago region, autumn of 2002 was unseasonably warm, and long. Imagine the surprise when a number of the clumps of bulbs flowered that autumn for the first time. In the mix of species sent us over time we apparently have gotten some of the fall blooming species (I'm surprised that they survive our winters). Now for the 'dumb' question of the day. In all of the years of hybridizing Galanthus, have there been any reports of plants with yellow petals instead of white? Are Galanthus self incompatible? ... the real question is has anybody tried selfing the yellow flowered cultivars in an effort to bring out other recessive genes (assuming the yellow color is a recessive trait)? Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org in the very cold, definitely frozen upper Midwest USA where green flags fly at all of the ponds and lakes signifying the ice is thick enough to hold a grown adult. The good news is temperatures are not expected to dip below 0 degrees F this week. The bad news is we aren't forecast to get above 32 degrees F either. Not a hardy bulb in sight but lots of snowflakes falling from the sky. Absolutely green with jealousy at all of the wonderful reports of bulbs in flower. From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon Feb 2 16:49:06 2004 Message-Id: <00f301c3e9d6$71c42920$533c2bd9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Galanthus--TOW Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 21:49:32 -0000 "have there been any reports of plants with yellow petals instead of white?" The only 'yellow' petalled Galanthus are showing the colour of the anthers inside "has anybody tried selfing the yellow flowered cultivars in an effort to bring out other recessive genes " Joe Sharman from Monksilver Nursery here in the UK is dabbling with the yellow genes. I'll be seeing him next Friday and ask him. John Grimshaw may now more. Mark From parsont@peak.org Mon Feb 2 17:22:36 2004 Message-Id: <401E5C3B.16164.1A97DAA@localhost> From: "Louise Parsons" Subject: Galanthus--TOW Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 14:18:35 -0800 Snowdrops are blooming in profusion here in western Oregon. To name favorites is like trying to choose a favorite child --impossible! The snowdrop webpages are wonderful. A trip to the UK in February ranks very high on my list. I am curious to know what causes some of my very large population of G. elwesii to have four outer petals. On 2 Feb 2004 at 10:23, Kathy Stokmanis wrote: > The BX offering I received is Galanthus elwesii. I would be more worried about > Galanthus not getting enough winter chill rather than it being too cold. I > live in the very beautiful Sierra Nevada foothills in Northern California, > Sunset zone 7. But the town rises over 1000 feet in elevation and I'm in the > so-called Banana Belt, where citrus can be grown. Over my three years of > observation, the temperature has not dropped below 25 degrees F so I think it's > zone 8 or even 9 in protected spots. G.elwesii will do just fine in your climate, especially if they have good shade in summer. Pine needles aren't an insurmountable problem either, even if you skip raking now and then. The only caution with erratic cleanup is that deep duff can become a hiding-place for slugs. Newer slug-baits such as "Sluggo" are a real boon though. The stuff even protects asarums that I previously had severe problems with. About moss in pots.... Here are a couple of ~partial solutions to the problem that are non-chemical. Use a top-dressing of poultry grit or coarse sand when sowing seed. Moss is the biggest problem on trilliums, erythronium, nomocharis, and anything else that is kept in pots for several years, especially since these are kept out of the sun. I found that I can carefully peel a layer of moss off the top in late autumn, when tiny bulbs are dormant and have pulled themselves down deep enough not to be disturbed. I then add a fresh layer of sterile worm-castings or good soil, and pumice or more grit. A bit of snowdrop humor: About fifteen years ago, our college-age daughter ran into the house very excitedly to tell me that she had found "a bunch of yellow- flowered snowdrops". I got very excited when she showed them to me, then caught the little smirk on her face: she had picked some, dyed the flowers, and artfully stuck them back in a neat cluster. We all had a good laugh! Cheers, Louise Willamette Valley in green, green Oregon ***************** From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Mon Feb 2 18:09:30 2004 Message-Id: <000201c3e9e1$9b219a90$8ae6403e@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Galanthus--TOW Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 22:59:17 -0000 Louise Parsons wrote: > I am curious to know what causes some of my very large population of G. elwesii > to have four outer petals. > This is a common mutation, usually happening just once and never again; but in Louise's clone it happens regularly but not always, and in the bulbs she gave me it has never done it again! The clone is known as 'Teresa Stone' and is certainly a very good reliable G. elwesii. John Grimshaw From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Mon Feb 2 18:09:32 2004 Message-Id: <000301c3e9e1$9c257600$8ae6403e@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Galanthus--TOW Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:08:27 -0000 Boyce Tankersley wrote: >Now for the 'dumb' question of the day. In all of the years of hybridizing Galanthus, have there been any reports of plants with yellow petals instead of white? Yes, there have. There is a clone of G. elwesii, 'Joy Cozens' in which the outer segments are tinged faintly orange, most noticeable in bud, but recognizable in the mature flower as well. G. 'Joan Weighell' is lime-cream-tinged in the outer segments, again mostly when young, while in G. nivalis 'Chadwick's Cream' they are cream-coloured. All of these have normal white inner segments with various green marks. In addition, there is a wonderful recent discovery from France with yellow markings plus yellow tips on the outer segments, but I can't recall its name and it's too late to call anyone. G. elwesii 'Carolyn Elwes' also sometimes does yellow tips. So there is some potential for more lively colours! Selfing is necessary to get a proportion of yellow seedlings from yellow parents: the genetics seem to be complicated and not a simple recessive/dominant situation. John Grimshaw From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon Feb 2 18:16:35 2004 Message-Id: <017001c3e9e2$a8683c30$533c2bd9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Galanthus--TOW Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:16:57 -0000 recent discovery from France with yellow markings plus yellow tips on the outer segments, but I can't recall its name Hi John I think the translation is 'Gold Shield' Mark N Ireland From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Mon Feb 2 18:50:25 2004 Message-Id: <005401c3e9e7$4e912c80$0fa779a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Galanthus--TOW pests Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:50:14 -0800 Hi Mark and anyone: Is Imidacloprid effective for Narcissus bulb fly? Diana > > A major pest to snowdrops is the Narcissus fly > http://www.snowdropinfo.com/narcissus-fly.html > > Mark > N Ireland > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Feb 3 02:00:10 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Galanthus--TOW pests Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:00:07 -0800 I have never had anything eat my snowdrops until this year when a motherless fawn bedded down by the window under my hummingbird feeder. He must have been orphaned or sent off before being properly instructed. Fortunately he has wandered off now, so the later flowers are opening unmolested except for my two poculiform elwesii (these are the pure white little lampshade flowers). I had great plans for hybridizing but both flowers were eaten - by slugs, I guess. Another first. Bits of petal left, but not a smidgeon of pollen nor the ovaries. I wonder if the lack of green made the flowers taste better. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From mark@marksgardenplants.com Tue Feb 3 02:35:14 2004 Message-Id: <001f01c3ea28$53c3d400$fc6a2bd9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Galanthus--TOW pests Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 07:35:41 -0000 > Is Imidacloprid effective for Narcissus bulb fly? 'Dursban' works but here is one which I will be receiving via my job in the next few days. It also kills Vine Weevil grubs and Leather Jackets. The fewer snowdrops one has the worse the affect of the fly. Attacks on large clumps of bulbs, like a friend has, doesn't show. Mark N Ireland ----- Original Message ----- From: "diana chapman" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 11:50 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Galanthus--TOW pests > Hi Mark and anyone: > > Is Imidacloprid effective for Narcissus bulb fly? > > Diana > > > > > > A major pest to snowdrops is the Narcissus fly > > http://www.snowdropinfo.com/narcissus-fly.html > > > > Mark > > N Ireland > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From Jamievande@freenet.de Tue Feb 3 08:20:58 2004 Message-Id: <007301c3ea58$de84e9a0$6802a8c0@Jamie2> From: "Jamie" Subject: Arum maculatum photos added Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:23:09 +0100 Jamie Vande Cologne Germany Zone 8 I just loaded a few shots of A. maculatum, a native to the woods in my area. As of now, these are only foliage shots, but blossoms and seed will be added as the season progresses. I must confess to a weakness for this Arum, as it is particularly attractive when sunlight reaches its translucent foliage. It is extremely variable in leaf form as well as spotting, all in the same colonies. Considering plants in their native habitats really gives one insight into their cultivation. The forest floors where this species is abundant is a sandy loam covered with a heavy litter of beech leaves. It is very open and friable, and other than in the late Summer, always moist and cool. The tubers are found directly under the loam surface, their roots spreading horizontally out. Due to the heavy leaf cover, they are well protected and close to impossible to locate out of leaf! Ciao, Jamie V From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Feb 3 09:22:14 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Galanthus--TOW Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:13:59 -0600 > However, I grow Galanthus reginae-olgae in a pot in the greenhouse, >because it is likely to be tender outdoors in the ground. Jim Shields Dear Jim; I live in a harsher climate than you and have grown G. reginae-olgae in the ground for years where it is one of the more reliable species. I think my problem with snowdrops is our droughty conditions, but reginae-olgae comes from summer dry climates and holds up very well. It is certainly hardy enough. I am more fond of fall blooming 'spring bulbs' because they appear when there is not so much going on. In spring lots of bulbs vie for attention, but in fall reginae-olgae is THE STAR of the snowdrop world (as it were). There is spring blooming (var vernalis) form of this species, but to me what's the point unless you are obsessed with snowdrops. It could happen, but not in my climate. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jshields104@insightbb.com Tue Feb 3 10:00:37 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040203095502.00b11088@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Galanthus--TOW Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 10:00:32 -0500 Jim W. and all, I'm not sure where I got the idea that Galanthus reginae-olgae was tender. Since I have only one bulb of it, I think I'll try out the approach that Joy Bishop told about in the Alpine-L TOW: Grow a rare or expensive bulb in a pot until it forms two bulbs. Then take one and propagate it by chipping. When the remaining bulb doubles again, plant one outdoors in the ground and chip the other. Pretty soon, you have quite a nice little collection of that clone, cultivar, species, etc. Someday we need a TOW on propagation of rare, difficult or self-sterile species. I wish I knew more about that. Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) At 08:13 AM 2/3/2004 -0600, Jim Waddick wrote: >> However, I grow Galanthus reginae-olgae in a pot in the greenhouse, >> because it is likely to be tender outdoors in the ground. Jim Shields > >...... > I live in a harsher climate than you and have grown G. > reginae-olgae in the ground for years where it is one of the more > reliable species. I think my problem with snowdrops is our droughty > conditions, but reginae-olgae comes from summer dry climates and holds > up very well. It is certainly hardy enough. >...... ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From msittner@mcn.org Tue Feb 3 10:38:38 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040203072308.01893f00@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Galanthus--TOW Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 07:38:13 -0800 Hi All, This post came from Lyn Edwards in Australia. For some reason I can't figure out yet it was received as a bounce so I am sending it for her. Mary Sue Hi, I am enjoying this topic very much, this has become one my very favourite bulbs,I love it in the garden when it is the only bulb flowering and when it is joined by other small early flowering bulbs -Crocus and Eranthis come to mind, this is the middle of summer so I've probably missed some others that grow at the same time too. In my southern hemisphere garden G. reginae olgae usually sends up its flowers in May and is followed by a succession of cultivars and species till early September.Having plants flowering throughout winter is wonderful,on my suburban quarter acre block I shall never have the wonderful swathes of snowdrops we see in English gardening magazines but I am very happy with what I have and add to the collection whenever possible. Most do well and increase here under deciduous Magnolias and weeping Japanese Maples which give shade protection from the fierce summer conditions and with severe water restrictions in force have priority in what watering is allowed. We are fortunate in that Narcissus fly has not reached Canberra yet so the only pests I have to contend with are slugs and snails which don't seem to be a real problem and blackbirds which are, scattering newly planted bulbs and those which have become crowded and near the surface everywhere. As to favourites, thats just about impossible, but I am particularly fond of G.woronowii which is the smallest I have and increases very well and some old favourites such as Magnet and S.Arnott.A newer cultivar, Otto Fauser, is probably my favourite among the larger flowered snowdrops, Lyn Edwards Canberra approx.zone 8 USDA From msittner@mcn.org Tue Feb 3 10:50:41 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040203074932.018e3ea0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Arum maculatum photos added Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 07:50:16 -0800 Dear All, Jamie's pictures can be found on the wiki Arum page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Arum Mary Sue From DaveKarn@aol.com Tue Feb 3 10:56:54 2004 Message-Id: <16b.2948ca97.2d511eb3@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: Chipping as a form of propagation/increase Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 10:56:35 EST In a message dated 03-Feb-04 7:00:59 AM Pacific Standard Time, jshields104@insightbb.com writes: > When the remaining bulb doubles again, plant one outdoors in the ground and > chip the other. Jim ~ Chipping (or the allied method, twin scaling) is a pretty standard way of increasing stocks of daffodils, as well as galanthus and, perhaps, other tunicate bulbs. Some years ago, I was told by a Dutch grower who routinely chipped (rather than twin scaled because the bulbs are so small) some of the narcissus species, that he had gotten better (i.e., faster results) when he chipped an unbloomed chipped bulb. In other words, chip a chipped bulb before it gets large enough to bloom. It does seem to make sense in that a bulb preparing to bloom undergoes certain physiological changes that a bulb not large enough to bloom does not. Thus, the energy stores remain concentrated on vegetative growth, I guess. Probably shouldn't tell you still very much snow-bound folks back east that out here on the Left Coast, daffodils are starting to bloom, cymbidium and cyclamen are and the camellias (before many of them were knocked off by very heavy rains in the last 24 hours) are covered with bloom. Despite that, spring really doesn't begin for another several weeks . . . really, the very best reason for having a cold greenhouse in any climate! Dave Karnstedt From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Feb 3 11:43:46 2004 Message-Id: <401FCFC2.3060700@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Amaryllis "Snow White" Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 11:43:46 -0500 A double amaryllis received from Greg Pettite and thrives here with outdoor sun all summer. Dried off and placed in basement for two months, and water when flower bud appears around mid january. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Amaryllis_Snow_White_3.JPG Arnold New Jersey From hornig@usadatanet.net Tue Feb 3 11:53:00 2004 Message-Id: <184670-22004223165254484@M2W033.mail2web.com> From: "hornig@usadatanet.net" Subject: Propagating Eucomis vandermerwei Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:52:54 -0500 Does anyone know whether Eucomis vandermerwei is best propagated from leaf cuttings or vertical bulb sections? I've found the former very effective for E. autumnalis, the later best for E. bicolor, and both only mildly successful for E. montana. Could be a matter of timing, of course. Thanks in advance for any help - Ellen Hornig -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Feb 3 19:37:16 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040203085358.00ba5940@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Galanthus--TOW Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 08:58:41 -0800 A couple of responses on recent postings on this topic: Chipping the bulb was mentioned for propagating. Like Joy Bishop, I buy my expensive cultivars by the "each" and coddle them in pots for a few years. I hadn't tried chipping the snowdrops yet but will do so. I have noticed that bulbs attacked by bulb fly but not totally destroyed often form bulblets around the rim of the damaged area, showing the plant's innate defense against such damage. Galanthus reginae-olgae is not grown in the open here because of the wet winters, but it does very well in the bulb frame and in pots plunged on my covered deck, where the temperature dipped below 20 degrees F (minus 6 C) recently for a couple of days. I have heard that it does not perform well in the US Northeast, presumably because of the deeper cold, but perhaps because of the damp summers. Another plant that does well here, G. plicatus 'Dionysus', is also said not to flower well in New York state. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Tue Feb 3 12:05:08 2004 Message-Id: <000601c3ea77$1a0eef20$2689eb50@TheAfricanGarden> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Propagating Eucomis vandermerwei Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 16:59:33 -0000 Does anyone know whether Eucomis vandermerwei is best propagated from leaf cuttings or vertical bulb sections? Hi Ellen, I've never done vertical bulb sections for E. vandermewei but I can tell you that it is very easy from leaf cuttings. I took some leaf cuttings of it late last year, probably September, and these without extra heat have remained green all winter and I lots of new bulbs emerging from each of the sections, even in temps down to -2C. In comparison to the other species and hybrids I took at the same time I would say E. vandermewei is one of the best and easiest to be done this way, and especially if given a little extra heat. Leaf cuttings were approx. 15 - 20mm long, thus about three- quarters of an inch long. About 20 were placed in a 2 litre pot, and in a branded multipurpose compost medium based on Irish Moss Peat. Hope this helps. Best Wishes, Dave (Plymouth, UK) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.562 / Virus Database: 354 - Release Date: 16/01/04 From nargsbs@efn.org Tue Feb 3 11:59:43 2004 Message-Id: From: "Ernie O'Byrne" Subject: Arum maculatum photos added Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 09:02:17 -0800 The link below returns code for me, although the wiki links have always worked in the past. Ernie O'Byrne Northwest Garden Nursery 86813 Central Road Eugene ORegon 97402-9284 USA USDA Zone 8a officially, but really Z. 7b Phone: 541 935-3915 FAX: 541 935-0863 -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Mary Sue Ittner Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 7:50 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Arum maculatum photos added Dear All, Jamie's pictures can be found on the wiki Arum page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Arum Mary Sue _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From tony@plantdelights.com Tue Feb 3 12:04:22 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20040203120415.012b07a8@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: Propagating Eucomis vandermerwei Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 12:04:15 -0500 Ellen: We have rooted Eucomis montana from leaf cuttings (early August in NC) and it is does work, but is much more timing sensitive than E. bicolor or E. comosa. At 11:52 AM 2/3/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone know whether Eucomis vandermerwei is best propagated from leaf >cuttings or vertical bulb sections? I've found the former very effective >for E. autumnalis, the later best for E. bicolor, and both only mildly >successful for E. montana. Could be a matter of timing, of course. Thanks >in advance for any help - > >Ellen Hornig > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >mail2web - Check your email from the web at >http://mail2web.com/ . > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Feb 3 12:05:39 2004 Message-Id: <401FD4DD.9040900@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Arum maculatum photos added Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 12:05:33 -0500 Ernie: I tried the link on your email and it took me to the Arum page. Arnold From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Feb 3 12:13:58 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Arum maculatum Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:13:45 -0600 Dear All; Jamie's photos remind me. 'The Genus Arum' by Peter Boyce is the authority on Arum and he describes the foliage of this species as anything from deep green to spotted and sometimes the spots that are 'bullate'. The color plate shows these spots as forming discrete blisters or 'scars. I have grown quite a few of these and have never seen one show these dark pits or blisters. Spotted forms are especially attractive to me. Yet there are no name cultivars, but the dozens of synonyms given tells of this variation. Does anyone grow this species with 'deep' pits for the dark spots? There is a cultivar called 'Painted Lady' which I have ordered a couple of times and it has neither been 'painted' (i.e. splotched in yellow) as advertised or even this species. Anyone familiar with the true cv? I admit to a mild case of arum-itis and love this species which requires more shade than most others. Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jimmckenney@starpower.net Tue Feb 3 12:20:18 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040203122006.008383c0@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Galanthus--TOW pests Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 12:20:06 -0500 Rodger Whitlock wrote: >Lycoris, except L. sprengeri, also disappear with astonishing >rapidity. Here in my zone 7 Maryland garden, Lycoris sprengeri and L. sanguinea are both prone to bulb fly infestation - L. sanguinea especially so. Snowdrops here do not seem to be much bothered by bulb fly. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, zone 7, where the flying today is being done by birds scrambling in the rain for food at the feeders. From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Tue Feb 3 16:45:28 2004 Message-Id: <002401c3ea9f$08177300$9fed403e@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Propagating Eucomis vandermerwei Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:43:40 -0000 Why bother with leaf cuttings? It flowers in third season from seed! John Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Gardens Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 Mobile 07 919 840 063 Fax (Estate Office) 01242 870541 Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 4:52 PM Subject: [pbs] Propagating Eucomis vandermerwei Does anyone know whether Eucomis vandermerwei is best propagated from leaf cuttings or vertical bulb sections? I've found the former very effective for E. autumnalis, the later best for E. bicolor, and both only mildly successful for E. montana. Could be a matter of timing, of course. Thanks in advance for any help - Ellen Hornig From jimmckenney@starpower.net Tue Feb 3 15:38:04 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040203153754.0083d120@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Chipping as a form of propagation/increase Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 15:37:54 -0500 Dave Karnstedt wrote: >and the camellias (before many of them were knocked off by very heavy >rains in the last 24 hours) are covered with bloom. Last weekend the Camellia japonica were thick with flower buds. An overnight visit by the local deer have left the plants defoliated; one or two flower buds are left on the tips of otherwise naked branches. I'm convinced that widespread compliance with leash laws for dogs seems to have made the invasion of suburban areas by deer that much easier. We've lived here forty-four years; for the first thirty years we never saw deer. Now it's no more surprising to see a deer than to see a squirrel. The deer are really impressive, handsome creatures. But their abundance in the absence of natural predators is just one more indication of how sloppily we have managed our natural resources. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland zone 7 deer country From jimmckenney@starpower.net Tue Feb 3 16:12:34 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040203161222.007952a0@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Digital cameras Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 16:12:22 -0500 Dear All, Has anyone mentioned the Canon EOS 300D (aka Digital Rebel)? I upgraded (or rather was upgraded; thank you, Wayne) from an old Kodak point and shoot to this one last fall. Loads of control over what you are doing. It's not inexpensive, but to get comparable quality in the past you would have had to spend several thousand dollars. None of the pictures I have so-far posted to the wiki was done with this new Canon camera. The ones I've posted were done with point and shoot Kodak cameras. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net who is now able to not only point and shoot but to point and shoot in focus! From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Tue Feb 3 17:05:40 2004 Message-Id: <000801c3eaa1$1a9ae960$2689eb50@TheAfricanGarden> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Propagating Eucomis vandermerwei Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 22:00:13 -0000 >>>Why bother with leaf cuttings? It flowers in third season from seed! Hi John, Don't ask me why but E. vandermewei is shy to set seed here, even with help. Just one pod ripening per scape. I've two distinct forms of this species and I'm hoping than when both flower at the same time I'll be able to cross them and have better success next time. Best Wishes, Dave (Plymouth, UK) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.577 / Virus Database: 366 - Release Date: 03/02/04 From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Feb 3 20:11:47 2004 Message-Id: <402046CB.9080902@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: stem elongation Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 20:11:39 -0500 The image of the hippeastrum double "Snow White" that I posted on the Wiki Wiki has a very long stem. It has reached almost three feet now. Any information on the control of stem elongation in these bulbs. Arnold New Jersey From totototo@pacificcoast.net Sat Jan 31 20:12:02 2004 Message-Id: <200402010112.i111Bx6W029073@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Scoliopus Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:18:01 -800 On 31 Jan 04 at 8:33, diana chapman wrote: > My problem with Scoliopus is getting it past the one and two year > seedling stage. It is besieged by slugs and snails... In the > forests locally where Clintonia andrewsiana and Scoliopus bigelovii > are fairly common, you rarely see any slug or snail damage to the > leaves even though slugs especially are abundant (and VERY large - > six inches at least). The destructive slugs found in gardens are exotics from Eurasia. There are a number of such species, one of the worst being Arion ater, a black slug that can be uncommonly voracious. The native banana slugs are generally not interested in our garden plants. Ditto for snails, esp. the European ground snail, which is very common in California. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Feb 3 23:25:28 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Galanthus--TOW Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 20:25:25 -0800 One of the Eastern U.S. growers mentioned that spring-blooming snowdrops were outstaged by all the other spring bulbs. I think that cold areas must have a compressed spring, where everything blooms more or less at once. Here on the Pacific coast, we have a very long spring. Snowdrops get noticed because the only other things blooming now are Eranthis, Cyclamen coum, Helleborus niger and a couple of other species, and half a dozen shrubs and trees. (rhdodendrons, camellias, November cherry, Hamamelis mollis,etc.). Snowdrops can be noticed from a car without compromising one's safe driving record. White is very eye-catching, and they grow in such masses. One clone of the shiny green-leaved Galanthus woronowii is widespread here. It multiplies prodigiously - the bulbs come surging up out of the ground so most of the mass are sitting on the surface, and being in a big clump doesn't seem to inhibit flowering. It stays in flower a very long time. It begins to flower when it is barely out of the ground, early in January, and continues to flower as the stem elongates. It is finally finished about the first week in March. That's 9 weeks of flower. I have never seen a seedpod. I have another clone of woronowii, a green-tipped one, that is much later - the buds are just clearing the ground now, and it doesn't multiply much. It does set seed, I think. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From Bonsaigai37@aol.com Wed Feb 4 07:21:45 2004 Message-Id: From: Bonsaigai37@aol.com Subject: Propagating Eucomis vandermerwei Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 07:21:35 EST Hello Fellow Eucomis Fans, I also found that my E. vandermervei is quite shy about seed production. Of the three I have from seed, one bloomed in 9 months. I was diligently pollinated and only one capsule formed. The others are sitting quietly. I will attempt again with the other two distinct clones and see if the plant is somewhat more fertile with that pollen. As for the leaf production, I had no success from a leaf accidentally severed in midsummer. I will try it on the plants that have not become dormant (2 of 3 are still "green" but not actively growing). An unusual formation on a floral stem from last August was found last week. I let the vase dry out and left the inflorescenses because they looked nice, even dead. While cleaning out the now weary stems, I found one, without water or soil, was still alive and had calloused, producing bulbous growths on the base of the stem! Outrageously tenacious! They were a mixed grouping of E. bicolor/autumnalis/comosa. I didn't keep track, but I think it's a comosa. Best regards, Michael From totototo@pacificcoast.net Sun Feb 1 14:07:44 2004 Message-Id: <200402011907.i11J7d1O031804@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Spelling. Was: [pbs] Scoliopus Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:13:49 -800 On 31 Jan 04 at 12:22, Jim McKenney wrote: > But I think botanists sometimes go back and change the original > spellings to make them conform to the spelling used by the eponym. A > case in point: all my life I've written Crocus tommasinianus. But > the name is now "officially" changed to respect Signor Tomasini's > spelling, i.e. with one "m". > > Because such activity (i.e. spelling changes) is generally well > below my radar screen, I brought the issue up hoping a practising > botanist familiar with the Scoliopus and Tulipa questions might > respond with the details. > > Any takers? I'm not completely au courant on the matter, but I believe one fairly recent revision of the ICBN (International Code of Botanical Nomenclature) decreed that epithets based on non-Latinized names were to be spelled as the name itself was spelled. Hence tommasinianus became tomasinianus. And bigelovii would become bigelowii, assuming the name honors a Bigelow and not a Bigelov. Note that this change in spelling is entirely independent of German spelling practice. However, I think -- I'm not sure -- that this provision was repealed in the next revision of the ICBN and we're back to spelling botanical epithets as they were when first validly published. Any professional botanist in the mob to confirm or refute all this? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Wed Feb 4 18:04:15 2004 Message-Id: <001401c3eb73$312d13b0$a502e150@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Propagating Eucomis vandermerwei Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:33:25 -0000 I may have been a bit hasty recommending seed propagation for Eucomis vandermerwei, but I started with seed and got a batch of about 80 flowering plants in the third year. These all set seed very well, so I had no idea that seed was otherwise not so freely produced. Perhaps it needs cross-fertilization. I noticed that my plants were abundantly visited by flies - the flowers are malodorous - and they may have effected pollination. Apart from the malodorous flowers it is a most charming plant. John Grimshaw > From tony@plantdelights.com Wed Feb 4 15:47:36 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20040204154736.012aae90@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: South African Bulbs Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 15:47:36 -0500 Dear Bulb Growers: We were just checking some 2003 bulb plantings and we have two surprises so far as relates to winter hardiness. Lachenalia reflexa and Brunsvigia josephine are still evergreen after a brutal winter. We had a low of 8 degrees F., followed by a severe ice storm and several days that the temps didn't rise above freezing. While winter is not over yet, we probably will not see single digits again this year. The plants are growing in an exposed bed with no protection or microclimate. This will also be our third season to flower Ammocharis coranica in the ground. So, how many other lachenalia species should be hardy to these temps? Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From hornig@usadatanet.net Wed Feb 4 18:07:23 2004 Message-Id: <191690-220042342371240@M2W057.mail2web.com> From: "hornig@usadatanet.net" Subject: Malodorous eucomis Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 18:07:12 -0500 This past summer, I devoted considerable effort to searching for the dead mouse in the greenhouse, only to discover that the smell emanated from a group of Eucomis montana in bloom. Handsome, but nasty! Ellen Hornig Original Message: ----------------- From: John Grimshaw johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:33:25 -0000 To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] Propagating Eucomis vandermerwei I may have been a bit hasty recommending seed propagation for Eucomis vandermerwei, but I started with seed and got a batch of about 80 flowering plants in the third year. These all set seed very well, so I had no idea that seed was otherwise not so freely produced. Perhaps it needs cross-fertilization. I noticed that my plants were abundantly visited by flies - the flowers are malodorous - and they may have effected pollination. Apart from the malodorous flowers it is a most charming plant. John Grimshaw > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From mark@marksgardenplants.com Wed Feb 4 18:13:02 2004 Message-Id: <00fd01c3eb74$6ed173e0$b2352ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: snowdrop/narcissus pest control Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:12:54 -0000 hi all The product I bought for the control of Narcissus fly is Sipyrfos which containd Chlorpyrifos. It can be used as either as a regular spray or a drench. The dose is 100ml in 100L whatever that is in 'old money'. I'll get someone to work it out for me. The drench kills eggs and grubs of Narcissus fly. Mark N Ireland From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Wed Feb 4 18:44:46 2004 Message-Id: <000301c3eb78$1db65f80$2689eb50@TheAfricanGarden> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Malodorous eucomis Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:39:20 -0000 Being short of space here doesn't help and I'm always getting told off by my wife. Having grown Dracunculus vulgare beside the bar-b-que and Eucomis bicolor beside the kitchen door she knows all about dead mice. In defence of my bulbs I tell her that we'll have less flies in the house if there is something to attract them outside, and yes it seems to be working, both on my wife and the flies. That said, this year I became a lot more aware of how important Eucomis are as a garden plant because many native insects were being attracted to them for their nectar, not just flies of various descriptions but butterflies, moths and hoverflies. Eucomis bicolor was exceptionally good in attracting day flying Jersey Tiger moths into the garden and these aren't regularly seen. Best Wishes, Dave (Plymouth, UK) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.577 / Virus Database: 366 - Release Date: 03/02/04 From msittner@mcn.org Thu Feb 5 11:04:38 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040205075209.00cfc520@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Photographs Page Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:04:11 -0800 Dear All, Mark Wilcox, Mark McDonough, and I decided that even if a genus has only one species that it is best to make a page for it. Although you could find a genus on another wiki page by searching or by coming in from Google, if you have our wiki bookmarked and access it directly we think you'd look over the list and assume it wasn't there. So yesterday I created a new page for Pabellonia although I kept a link to it on Leucocoryne (Alan Meerow told us when this one was discussed that dna work was probably going to return it one day to Leucocoryne). http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Pabellonia I also made a new page for Leontochir. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Leontochir Both of Jane's images are now on their own page. While I was at it I also created a Bessera page. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Bessera Last year I bought corms from Diana at Telos Rare Bulbs. This genus is in the new family with Brodiaea, Dichelostemma, Triteleia, which I grow as many of as I can get seeds of, so I was interested in seeing how the summer growing genera compared. Mostly I have tried to stick to species more appropriate for my climate. Alas, it bloomed while I was in South Africa so I didn't get to see it, but my friend Jana Ulmer took care of it in my absence and took pictures for me which I have finally gotten on the wiki. I hope it comes back. It looks really gorgeous! Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From angelopalm69@inwind.it Thu Feb 5 14:35:24 2004 Message-Id: <001601c3ec1e$c77df2c0$d2af623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: South African bulbs Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 20:31:49 +0100 Dear Tony, are you saying you have Ammocharis coranica in the ground, unprotected in NC with 8F and it flowers from three years ?! I didn't know this species was cold hardy. BTW, is this species summer growing in Mediterranean climate or again it is one of those with 'changeable humour' ? My seedlings are pushing leaves now. Angelo Porcelli Italy From tony@plantdelights.com Thu Feb 5 14:55:36 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20040205145537.0115c2b0@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: South African bulbs Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 14:55:37 -0500 Dear Angelo: Yes, this is correct...this is our third season. It flowers for us in mid-July. Once again, this illustrates that we must consider all plants hardy until we have killed them ourselves...at least three times. At 08:31 PM 2/5/2004 +0100, you wrote: >Dear Tony, > >are you saying you have Ammocharis coranica in the ground, unprotected in NC with 8F and it flowers from three years ?! >I didn't know this species was cold hardy. BTW, is this species summer growing in Mediterranean climate or again it is one of those with 'changeable humour' ? My seedlings are pushing leaves now. > >Angelo Porcelli >Italy >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From geophyte@sbcglobal.net Thu Feb 5 15:08:41 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20040205114752.0269e490@pop.sbcglobal.net> From: Jamie Subject: Ledebouria and Eucomis Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 12:05:38 -0800 Anyone interested in Ledebouria might want to check out the Drimia species from Somalia offered by 'Out Of Africa'. http://www.out-of-africa-plants.com/ I have grown this for two seasons in full sun, and it is quite striking. (I winter it dry, but out-of doors) I'm by no means a botanist, but it has flowering parts quite similar to the various Ledebouria I grow. I believe I heard that there is considerable "flexibility" in the classification of these two genera, and the related Scilla as well. I am very interested in the recent postings regarding Eucomis leaf cuttings. Are the cuttings best taken in the autumn? Are cuttings nearest the bulb generally more successful than those taken further up the leaf? Jamie Near Berkeley, CA From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Thu Feb 5 15:25:39 2004 Message-Id: <7a.5032d339.2d5400b8@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: South African Bulbs Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:25:28 EST In a message dated 2/4/2004 3:48:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, tony@plantdelights.com writes: >So, how many >other lachenalia species should be hardy to these temps? We lost power recently and the greenhouse had to be backup heated. Unfortunately, it was negative 5F outside and one corner area received inadequate heat. Some pots of Lachenalia in that corner have turned to mush but others seem to have survived. I'll make a note to send you the names of those survivors from that terrible night on my veldt. Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Downtown Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From tony@plantdelights.com Thu Feb 5 17:03:24 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20040205170323.012bad50@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: South African Bulbs Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 17:03:23 -0500 Mark: There is a silver lining to every cloud and we would love to hear which lachenalias survived for you. This would give us all new hope for this genus. > >We lost power recently and the greenhouse had to be backup heated. >Unfortunately, it was negative 5F outside and one corner area received inadequate heat. >Some pots of Lachenalia in that corner have turned to mush but others seem to >have survived. I'll make a note to send you the names of those survivors from >that terrible night on my veldt. > >Mark Mazer >Intarsia Ltd. >Downtown Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 >USA >www.therapyshapes.com >USDA Zone 5 >Giant Schnauzer Rescue >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From angelopalm69@inwind.it Thu Feb 5 17:18:17 2004 Message-Id: <001801c3ec35$89047b60$61af623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: New photos on wiki Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 23:15:15 +0100 Hi all, I have just uploaded some new phtos on the wiki. Iris bicapitata is surely unknown to many of you http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Iris For the lovers of dwarf plants, Allium chamaemoly should be your pet ! http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Misc%20Onions Finally, some forms and hybrids of the beloved Narcissus tazetta http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Narcissus Enjoy Angelo From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Thu Feb 5 18:00:04 2004 Message-Id: <000601c3ec3b$012c1e40$2689eb50@TheAfricanGarden> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: South African bulbs Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 22:54:23 -0000 >>>>are you saying you have Ammocharis coranica in the ground, unprotected in NC with 8F and it flowers from three years ?! Hi Angelo, I grow Ammocharis coranica outside here in my gravel bed, sadly no flowers yet but it survives down to minus 4-5C. But yes Tony's report about it and the Brusvigia is astonishing news. I've just had the good fortune to discuss it with John Bryan this evening over dinner, and he seems to be enjoying his stay very much despite the poor weather. Best Wishes, Dave (Plymouth, UK) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.577 / Virus Database: 366 - Release Date: 03/02/04 From totototo@pacificcoast.net Mon Feb 2 22:52:41 2004 Message-Id: <200402030352.i133qcnC023383@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Galanthus--TOW pests Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:58:49 -800 On 2 Feb 04 at 19:23, Mark Smyth wrote: > A major pest to snowdrops is the Narcissus fly > http://www.snowdropinfo.com/narcissus-fly.html Curiously, snowdrops do quite well here, but many narcissus (and other amaryllids) are destroyed in one season by the narcissus fly. My immediate area used to host commercial daffodil growing operations (there are still such operations outside of town), and abounds with feral clumps of old, long-forgotten cultivars which serve as so many typhoid Marys. I have observed that the beautiful triandrus hybrid narcissus (Liberty Bells, Thalia, and many others) are particularly prone to the fly. You don't even get "grass" the second year! Lycoris, except L. sprengeri, also disappear with astonishing rapidity. Yet crinums, amaryllis belladonna, lycoris sprengeri, and nerine bowdenii all do well. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From msittner@mcn.org Fri Feb 6 15:22:30 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040206121022.00cf4540@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Veltheimia capensis seedpods Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:17:43 -0800 Dear All, I'm a bit late with this, but I finally found the time to scan a few of the slides of our South African trip of the patch of Veltheimia capensis we saw in fruit. As I said when I wrote about our trip my husband got to be quite good about spotting plants even when he was driving on a side of the road he wasn't used to. We thought from a distance that these were flowers since many of them looked red, but when we got out of the car we found they were seed pods. It was an incredible site. None of the seed was ripe yet, but very attractive. I hoped to get these on the wiki when this was still a topic of the week, but didn't manage it until yesterday. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Veltheimia Mary Sue From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Fri Feb 6 17:14:32 2004 Message-Id: <6.21a29bc9.2d556bc5@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: South African Bulbs/Lachenalia survivors Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:14:29 EST The cold temperature survivors: L. unifolia, unifolia var. wrightiii, zeyherii Recently departed: L. viridiflora, glaucina, pallida, orchiodes From ConroeJoe@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:09:30 2004 Message-Id: <66.3c23594f.2d5586b8@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: African plants (Lachenalia) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 19:09:28 EST In a message dated 2/6/2004 11:12:55 AM Central Standard Time, IntarsiaCo@aol.com writes: > Some pots of Lachenalia in that corner have turned to mush but others seem > to > have survived. Hi, I've finally concluded that Lachenalia must be quite variable, even within a single species, with respect to cold hardiness. And, there must be a lot of variation between species. Such variation could make sense if plants grow over a large altitudinal variations, such as near the seashore and high up into the mountains (1,500 meters). There are a whole lot of places in the Western Cape and Northern Cape provinces that are high elevation areas. There is no doubt that some plants can't take more than a few degrees of frost for any period of time (maybe most?). There are too many reports from members of this list and elsewhere, so it is clear that many Lachenalia are sensitive to frost. Yet, Silverhill seeds is quite confident that the Lachenalia species they offer will endure temperatures to 20 F, or lower. They rate them zone 8 hardy, and are clear and confident in their ratings if you email them. Perhaps Silverhill has taken time to get seeds from higher elevation materials? I do trust their general evaluation of their materials. Additionally, some members of this list have reported Lachenalia surviving (maybe not liking it) down to 20 F, outdoors in the ground. One email correspondent reported plants surviving to near 10 F, and resprouting. And, of course, recent reports here on this list show that some Lachenalia can take a fair bit of frost, perhaps even frozen soil. I tried to find information on the genus and found some information that it is very widespread for a South African genus, but it is most often found in the winter rainfall regions. That would put members of the genus in the general area of Sutherland, Northern Cape (elevation 4744 ft.) and Springbok, Northern Cape (elevation 3600 ft). It would also put members of the genus in many areas much closer to sea level. Cordially, From khixson@nu-world.com Sat Feb 7 10:53:30 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20040207075324.007e0658@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Silverhill Seeds, hardiness Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 07:53:24 -0800 Hi, Members ConroeJoe wrote >Yet, Silverhill seeds is quite confident that the Lachenalia species they >offer will endure temperatures to 20 F, or lower. They rate them zone 8 hardy, >and are clear and confident in their ratings if you email them. Perhaps >Silverhill has taken time to get seeds from higher elevation materials? I do trust >their general evaluation of their materials. First, I don't mean this as a criticism, but it appears to me that Silverhill rates hardiness based on their own experience--exactly what you want from a catalog, rather than over-optomistic offerings from some other catalogs. Some examples: Kniphofia rooperi Z9 (Thompson and Morgan lists it as Z7)--I have seedlings of this, and they were apparently unhurt by this winter, which I believe got to +19F. Kniphofia uvaria Z8--the common "red hot poker", and as such far hardier than Z8. The Pfitzer hybrids were raised and selected in Germany, for instance. However, it has been hybridized and selected so I kon't know exactly how hardy the species itself is. Zantedeschia aethiopica, Z8--common white calla lily--has been grown here in Z7 for longer than I've gardened, and there is a selection (Crowbourogh--sp?) that is supposed to be hardy at least to Z6, possibly to Z5 with protection? So, my assumption is, although Silverhill rates their offerings accurately according to their experience, some of them are certainly hardier. Silverhill can't be expected to give information they don't have any experience with. The challenge for the rest of us is to find out just how hardy things are, and find hardier individuals of various species/hybrids, of things which are not reported to be hardy. To paraphrase Tony Avent, "We need to kill plants at least three times ourselves, before we know it isn't hardy". This will take time, and enough plants available to experiment, and the courage to accept the inevitable losses. We then need to share these hardiest individuals of the various species. Certainly, there are many such plants we still have to find. Ken Z7 western Oregon USA From blweintraub1@earthlink.net Sat Feb 7 11:00:24 2004 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20040207085812.01c66ff8@earthlink.net> From: Barbara Weintraub Subject: hardiness of Kniphofia uvaria Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:00:36 -0700 I've seen this growing in a garden in the southern mountains of New Mexico and here in the northern part of the state. Both areas are nominally USDA zone 5. > Kniphofia uvaria Z8--the common "red hot poker", and as such far >hardier than Z8. The Pfitzer hybrids were raised and selected in Germany, >for instance. However, it has been hybridized and selected so I kon't know >exactly how hardy the species itself is. - Barbara Leaf and Stone Barbara L. Weintraub Santa Fe, NM 87508-8769 Elevation 7000 ft. blweintraub1@earthlink.net From jshields104@insightbb.com Sat Feb 7 11:34:00 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040207111154.00b1c788@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Silverhill Seeds, hardiness Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 11:33:58 -0500 Joe, Ken, and all, Good points. I am most interested in the hardy and almost-hardy bulbs. After all, I have a lot more space to grow things outdoors than I do under glass and plastic. Hardiness outdoors here in mid-zone 5 is very important to me. However, zone 5 in Indiana is a wet zone, with almost 40 inches of precipitation (as liquid) each year. We get at least 2 inches per month, and obviously we often get more than that. The plants from arid and semi-arid climates are more likely to suffer from the moisture here. We cannot grow Kniphofia hirsuta, citrina, sarmentosa or stricta out in the open. They seem to survive in protected spots outdoors, such as next to the southeastern corner of one of the greenhouses. the stricta and the citrina seem to bloom sometimes there too. Kniphofia caulescens survived several years and bloomed once outdoors on the south side of a very large Colorado Spruce tree. Kniphofia northiae survived several years but never bloomed out in the wide open spaces of a fully exposed, raised rock garden bed. I have not tried the K. uvariae hybrids yet. I planted some K. linearifolia outdoors in a raised sandy bed, but I don't think they survived. I'll check again next season to be sure. Other unexpectedly hardy South African bulbs here are Crinum variabile as well as CC. bulbispermum and x-powellii, and [bulbispermum X lugardiae]; Gladiolus oppositiflorus salmoneus (but this depends greatly on the specific site) while G. dalenii has not survived. Dierama dracomontanum and latifolium survived outdoors in the ground for several years in a reactively dry bed. Morea galpinii has done better than other Morea outdoors here, but it is not able to bloom. Zantedeschia have not survived outdoors in the open ground here. Nevertheless, I keep trying and hoping. I have one large plant of Z. aethiopica 'Green Goddess' planted up against the outside of the south wall of one greenhouse, between a couple of surviving crinums. Maybe it too will survive....... I had numerous seedling pots of Zantedeschia seedlings that had survived two winters in a cold frame die last winter in the same cold frames. It was unusually wet last winter, and the temperatures stayed below freezing for long periods without any thawing. Too cold and too wet apparently did them in. I'm always looking for more potentially hardy bulbs to test here. Do you have any you would like me to try here? There is lots of room out in the nursery beds. Best wishes, Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) where our coldest temperature so far this winter was -8 F (about -22 C) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From tony@plantdelights.com Sat Feb 7 12:02:45 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20040207120226.0115ec28@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: Silverhill Seeds, hardiness Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 12:02:26 -0500 Jim: Another problem with the hardiness ratings for many of the South African bulbs is that the only folks who have grown these outdoors (until recently) are Pacific Coast gardeners...especially Southern California. Since the temps there almost never drop below 20 degrees F, everything gets listed as zone 9. Those of us in cooler climates are just now starting to compile more acurate cold tolerance data. It's just that we are light years behind our counterparts on the west coast in growing these plants. You are compiling an interesting list of South African bulbs. Our climate is similar as far as moisture (around 50" per year), but not quite as cold in the winter. For us Zantedeschia aethiopica 'Green Goddess' is the weakest growing of the Z. aethiopica cultivars. We can't keep this alive in zone 7. Try Z. 'Whipped Cream' or Z. 'White Giant'. Gladiolus tristis and the "homoglad" hybrids have been truly amazing. We have customers in a solid zone 6 that have had great success with these outdoors. Of all the species glads so far, this and G. dalenii have been the best. We have had success with most kniphofias including sarmentosa, citrina, rooperi, northiae and many more outdoors. I did manage to kill K. hirsuta, but am preparing to try again. All of the Dieramas that we have tried have done well, but D. igneum is particularly fine. We planted many more bulbs last season and am looking forward to an interesting to spring season. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From SheriAnnRicherson@exoticgardening.com Sat Feb 7 12:17:06 2004 Message-Id: <20040207171705.BE4672001C@happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu> From: "Sheri Ann Richerson" Subject: Silverhill Seeds, hardiness Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:16:32 -0500 I have had success outdoors in zone 5 with Kniphofia uvaria'Candlelight.' This will be the third winter I have had it in the ground. This past summer was the first time it bloomed for me. I may be in a microclimate but I can grow zone 6 and zone 7 plants outdoors with fairly good success. Sheri, zone 5, Marion, Indiana Do you like gardening? Then visit http://www.exoticgardening.com Do you need a freelance writer, editor, photographer or speaker? Contact Sheri Ann Richerson (765) 674-6167 SheriAnnRicherson@exoticgardening.com http://sheriannricherson.exoticgardening.com From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 12:29:08 2004 Message-Id: <20040207172907.77724.qmail@web11309.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Artistry/John Ingram Subject: Silverhill Seeds, hardiness Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 09:29:07 -0800 (PST) Jim, et. al., I have had some really lucky placements for "tropical" plants at my uncle's house in OH, z5. I have had the following callas over winter for several years; Mango Flame Green Goddess aetiopica and unlabeled yellow (same size as Flame) Also, they are in various locations. Most are in really heavy clay soils that really drain rather slowly. But I also have them in the rose bed which has years of mulch that has decomposed to the consistancy of peat and it always stay wet any time of the year. I know that ground temps have been rather minimal the last few years so that might have a lot to do with it. But, I also have had Sabal minor and Rhapidophyllum (needle palms) all over winter with minor leaf damage. So, I think my location is a little more protected that it would appear to be. It is a wide open field mostly. Another observation, I know that I have said this in the past but I'll repeat for new members, Acidantheras survive. The main corms turns to mush but the small side corms don't. They are too small to flower and once they get some size, poof. Mush. All I ever get out of them is a field of grass-like leaves that the thrips love. I also have 5 agapanthus that have made it throuh 2 winters. We shall see this year as well. Tony Avent knows of a grower in MI that has a population of 100+ growing for 6 years in the open ground. This is very encouraging. My source for them was a garden here in So CA that wanted them removed. So I shipped them to OH and put them in the mounded beds and the rose (peat-like) bed. All that I left there are still there as of last fall. John From Jamievande@freenet.de Sat Feb 7 13:04:14 2004 Message-Id: <003c01c3eda5$235bee80$6802a8c0@Jamie2> From: "Jamie" Subject: Perceptions of Zones and Hardiness Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:06:40 +0100 Jamie Vande Cologne Germany Zone 8 As you can see from my zone, hardiness tests are not a major criteria for me, but environment adaptiveness is, we are wet and our cold periods are prolonged! I do grow quite a few Kniphofia species and hybrids in the garden, finding their most delicate criteria is soil drainage. They hate winter wet.(the ones I've tried, anyway). K. uvaria and her hybrids handle our wet pretty well, though! In attempting to assess the possible sucessfulness of a plant in my climate, I find the zone is only a starting point. This is particularly true of the South Africans, many of which come from higher elevations or inhabit niches within a zone. Just because we have defined Zone 8 as having a minimum of -12°C, does not mean all plants that regularly survive a periodic dip to -12°C will survive in my Zone 8. Most of the African Zone 8 plants are not exposed to prolonged freezes, which can occur in my Zone 8. A typical Winter day in a SA Zone 8 may have a nightime temperature of -8°C followed by a daytime temperature of +18°C. Prolonged freezes are very rare! In my Zone 8, with the same nightime temperature, the following daytime temperature is typically about -2°C, still below freezing! This may continue for a few weeks, stressing the plant to it's limits. An example this Winter is Chasmanthe, which is winter green. After a week of sub-freezing weather, the plants lost all their leaves. In years with only occaisional/broken frosts, they are green right through to Spring. Similarly Zantedeschia aethiopica can handle light frosts, but hard freezes take it to the ground (along with the developing flowers!) Zone ratings are only the starting point in defining hardiness, in my opinion. From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sat Feb 7 13:15:26 2004 Message-Id: <19c.1fe54b2a.2d568539@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Hardiness in Genera (was African plants, Silverhill seeds, etc.) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 13:15:21 EST In a message dated 2/7/2004 11:07:56 AM Central Standard Time, khixson@nu-world.com writes: > Silverhill rates hardiness based on their own experience--exactly what you > want from a catalog, rather than over-optomistic offerings from some other > catalogs. Hi, Well said, Ken. I think Jim S. has pointed out an important factor in hardiness ratings, we all know what that factor is, moisture. If I don't pay attention to drainage, or rain shelter, or even protection from humidity, I can't grow some plants successfully. Sometimes they die in midwinter and it might be supposed they were victims of cold, but they are victims of "cool and damp." It is common enough knowledge in cactus and succulent culture that cold hardy cacti are often not hardy if they are not kept on the dry side in winter-or at least provided with exquisite drainage. And, I'm sure as I learn more, I'll find out the same amongst the growers of certain bulbs. Cultural concerns I never considered while growing up in a different climate, are of paramount concern here near Houston. As far as cold-hardiness goes, I think I'll try Jim's offer for testing. Crinum americanum is commonly found locally; I'll collect some starts from roadside ditches this spring and send them off to Indiana. Let me know if anyone else (in the USA) wants to try C. americanum. Anyone wanting C. americanum, just write to me separately. Cordially, Joe Shaw, zone 9a, 50 inches of rain From hornig@usadatanet.net Sat Feb 7 13:27:05 2004 Message-Id: <57050-22004267182659880@M2W044.mail2web.com> From: "hornig@usadatanet.net" Subject: Perceptions of Zones and Hardiness Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 13:26:59 -0500 (First, apologies if this more or less duplicates a previous posting; as far as I can tell, it never went through.) As everyone clearly agrees, cold tolerance does not define hardiness! Here in zone 5 (lows to -20F), for example, I grow (in the open, unsheltered garden)the following South Africans: Kniphofia hirsuta, northiae, stricta, typhoides, breviflora, linearifolia, brachystachya, caulescens, triangularis ssp. triangularis, ichopensis, and maybe a couple of others I've forgotten; also Dierama igneum, dracomontanum, trichorrhizum, and pauciflorum; Gladiolus oppositiflorus ssp. salmoneus, old G. dalenii hybrids ("primulinus" types) and G. saundersii; Moraea huttonii; Eucomis montana, autumnalis, and bicolor; Tritonia disticha v. rubrolucens; Galtonia viridiflora and regalis; and a bunch of herbaceous things (Berkeheya purpurea, B. multijuga, Artemisia afra, Geranium robustum, Wahlenbergia rivularis, to name most of them). The secret here is snow cover: usually there from December through March. Last week we got 5 feet in 36 hours, so I guess we're set until about May this year. The ground stays relatively warm under all that insulation. But I have to disagree with some people about kniphofias not tolerating wetness. Here, at least, they revel in it. They freeze and thaw in it for weeks in early "spring" (what we call "mud season" here). Because I garden on a hill, even the wet areas are moving wet, so perhaps that's the key - I don't know. So the bottom line is that minimum temperatures tell you relatively little - Ellen Hornig Oswego NY USA Zone 5 -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Feb 7 13:36:47 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040207103359.00ba99d8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: hardiness of Kniphofia uvaria Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 10:36:38 -0800 A FOrest Service botanist at the ranger station in my small town once told me that she had found a colony of Kniphofia uvaria growing far out in the Mt. Hood National Forest above 4000 feet elevation. We speculated that it might have come there as debris on heavy equipment used in logging, after same equipment had been used in a home garden or compost facility. This would be well above the winter snow line for our area, so the crowns probably don't get very cold, but it attests to the toughness and perhaps even invasiveness of this species, which is unpalatable to grazers. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon At 09:00 AM 2/7/2004 -0700, you wrote: >I've seen this growing in a garden in the southern mountains of New Mexico >and here in the northern part of the state. Both areas are nominally USDA >zone 5. > From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat Feb 7 13:38:52 2004 Message-Id: <402530B9.3080504@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Perceptions of Zones and Hardiness Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 13:38:49 -0500 Ellen: Do you take any special precautions with the soil/medium that you grow all the South African bulbs in? Arnold From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Feb 7 19:00:09 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040207104538.00b9b7b0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Kniphofia adaptability again Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 10:54:53 -0800 Ellen Hornig notes that Kniphofia species may be more susceptible to wet cold than to plain cold, and I think this is right to some extent. However, I also grow a number of species in this genus here in northwestern Oregon in the foothills of the Cascades, where winters are very wet indeed and also cold (near or below freezing most nights between mid-November and April). Even K. northiae, a peculiar species that resembles an Agave in foliage form and has a huge but rather unattractive flower, has persisted here for a long time in rather poor soil on a hillside. On the other hand, I have not found some of the named hybrids from England to tolerate winters here, especially the widely sold small light yellow whose name escapes me at the moment. To get tolerant border kniphofias, I started with a packet of "dwarf hybrid" seeds about 16 years ago. I took seed from plants that survived the famous Pacific deep freeze of 1990-91 and grew on a lot of seedlings from them. From these I selected one moderate-sized plant with bronze stems, narrow evergreen foliage, and clear yellow flowers. I have a planting of it in the garden now that does well every year, and have given divisions to a few people; I think one nursery was selling it for a while. It's not necessarily a better plant than other selections, but it's better for this particular climate. Anyone who has room to trial a batch of seedlings can perform the same experiment, and I did not find it difficult to get rid of the clones I didn't want (though it's pretty strenuous to dig up a full-grown kniphofia). Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From hornig@usadatanet.net Sat Feb 7 14:16:52 2004 Message-Id: <191690-22004267191652218@M2W041.mail2web.com> From: "hornig@usadatanet.net" Subject: Perceptions of Zones and Hardiness Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 14:16:52 -0500 Arnold - no, everything just goes into the gardens as they are. The soil is generally a clayey loam - close to neautral, reasonably fertile, fairly moisture-retentive. Gardens occasionally get amended with nursery compost (mostly MetroMix 510, plus perlite and whatever other stuff typically ends up in compost: judging from the results, more baby arisaemas and cyclamen than we intend!). As I said, we're on a hill, so there's an inevitable downward trend of free moisture. For example, I have several Kniphofia caulescens growing in a swale that is completely liquid in early spring (here, April-May), and they love it. The true bulbs and corms are not in wet spots - I do try to site them on definite slopes. Other than that, nothing gets special conditions or soils - Ellen Original Message: ----------------- From: Arnold Trachtenberg arnold@nj.rr.com Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 13:38:49 -0500 To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] Perceptions of Zones and Hardiness Ellen: Do you take any special precautions with the soil/medium that you grow all the South African bulbs in? Arnold _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From jimmckenney@starpower.net Sat Feb 7 16:42:34 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040207164220.008414f0@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Perceptions of Zones and Hardiness: Rhodohypoxis Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 16:42:20 -0500 For years I assumed that it was just about axiomatic that marginally hardy plants would winter better if kept dry. That's is a very broad generalization. Four years ago I had to leave home for a month in mid-summer. There was a mad scramble to get potted plants into the ground so they would not dry out while I was gone. Among those were several pots of Rhodohypoxis. The Rhodohypoxis were planted in the bog trays; their companions were such plants as Sphagnum, Drosera, Sarracenia, various bog orchids, cranberries and so on. By the time winter rolled around, I had forgotten them. Four years later, some of them are still there, more or less invisible except when they bloom. The soil is either wet all winter or it's a block of ice. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, zone 7, where the ground in general is still a block of ice. From plants_man@bigpond.com Sat Feb 7 18:12:39 2004 Message-Id: <014e01c3edd0$c358c0e0$f2fa8690@userbwbb7lkmiq> From: "Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan" Subject: New Web Address Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:18:56 +1100 Greetings All, I hope this day finds you well. I have moved web address and invite you to come and have a surf on our new web site. http://www.mainlyamaryllidsgarden.com Best wishes, Dash. Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan, Mainly Amaryllids Garden,P O Box 173, Barnawartha,Victoria,3688, Australia. +61 02 60267377, Visit my web site @ http://www.mainlyamaryllidsgarden.com Now with Online Shopping Cart & Payment Method ------------------------------------------------- Email the Australian Bulb Association at: support@ausbulbs.org ABA Web Sites: http://www.ausbulbs.org Checkout the bulb images at http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/ From hornig@usadatanet.net Sat Feb 7 19:17:43 2004 Message-Id: <107560-220042080174390@M2W058.mail2web.com> From: "hornig@usadatanet.net" Subject: Kniphofia adaptability again Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:17:43 -0500 Jane, perhaps I didn't make myself clear - or perhaps I didn't address the question directly. With our winters, winter wet per se is not a likelihood, as it's too cold for water to be liquid, and everything is blanketed for 2 or 3 months with snow. Our springs, however, are typically cold and wet, and the kniphofias freeze and thaw in muddy soil for weeks on end. And they seem to thrive on that. A few years ago, I had the privilege of hosting Rod and Rachel Saunders when they did their NARGS speaking tour. I mentioned to them that I was surprised at how the K. caulescens tolerated freezing and thawing in the at-that-season extremely wet ground, and Rod said something to the effect that "it probably feels right at home - that's very like conditions in the Drakensberg". And the more I've read (Codd's monograph, Pooley, etc), the clearer it's become to me that these are plants of damp to wet soils, and that those soils can indeed still be damp when temperatures fall below freezing at night, even if they're much drier in winter than summer. I keep hoping Rachel Saunders will jump into this discussion and straighten us all out. Rachel? Ellen Hornig Original Message: ----------------- From: Jane McGary janemcgary@earthlink.net Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 10:54:53 -0800 To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Kniphofia adaptability again Ellen Hornig notes that Kniphofia species may be more susceptible to wet cold than to plain cold, and I think this is right to some extent. However, I also grow a number of species in this genus here in northwestern Oregon in the foothills of the Cascades, where winters are very wet indeed and also cold (near or below freezing most nights between mid-November and April). Even K. northiae, a peculiar species that resembles an Agave in foliage form and has a huge but rather unattractive flower, has persisted here for a long time in rather poor soil on a hillside. On the other hand, I have not found some of the named hybrids from England to tolerate winters here, especially the widely sold small light yellow whose name escapes me at the moment. To get tolerant border kniphofias, I started with a packet of "dwarf hybrid" seeds about 16 years ago. I took seed from plants that survived the famous Pacific deep freeze of 1990-91 and grew on a lot of seedlings from them. From these I selected one moderate-sized plant with bronze stems, narrow evergreen foliage, and clear yellow flowers. I have a planting of it in the garden now that does well every year, and have given divisions to a few people; I think one nursery was selling it for a while. It's not necessarily a better plant than other selections, but it's better for this particular climate. Anyone who has room to trial a batch of seedlings can perform the same experiment, and I did not find it difficult to get rid of the clones I didn't want (though it's pretty strenuous to dig up a full-grown kniphofia). Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From vikingdoc@earthlink.net Sat Feb 7 20:00:47 2004 Message-Id: <410-22004208115430@earthlink.net> From: "Kathy Stokmanis" Subject: Veltheimia Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 17:01:05 -0800 Thank you, Michael Loos, and others who responded to the seed starting questions. I moved my Veltheimia seed pots (PBS BX seed from many weeks ago) from outside onto the top of the refrigerator. It's been about seven days and I'm seeing my first sprouts. I'm lucky I did not lose them. I assumed that if they bloomed during winter that winter sowing was the way to go. Kathy S. Gardening in Northern California, zone 8 or 9, where Muscari azureum is starting to show flowers and it's supposed to be sunny for the next seven days. I winter sow many types of seeds because of the mild climate but it certainly didn't work for the Veltheimia. From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Sun Feb 8 03:15:49 2004 Message-Id: <001401c3ee1a$ecc1f380$2689eb50@TheAfricanGarden> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Kniphofia adaptability again Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 08:09:48 -0000 >>>>>K. caulescens tolerated freezing and thawing in the at-that-season extremely wet ground, and Rod said something to the effect that "it probably feels right at home - that's very like conditions in the Drakensberg". Hi Ellen and All, Yes I hope Rachel can join in too is she's not busy. However my experience is slightly different as I have noticed a distinct difference in the hardiness of what could be termed as 'hardy' Kniphofia. I have found the species like caulescens, thomsonii var. snowdenii and brachystachya are probably less hardy with regards their (cold / wet tolerance) the higher the altitude they are collected and have found these plants to prefer drier conditions and probably a little more winter light. I have habitat collected forms of K. caulescens here that were collected from seed from over 10,000 feet in Lesotho. The plants have a very different habit from what we would consider normal garden caulescens, and they are much smaller, dwarfer plants, and spread at a much slower rate. I have also found that these plants are more deciduous than the your average caulescens and may lose all their leaves during harsh frosts, and thus loose a certain amount of their natural protection. I completely agree though that in general that quite a few Kniphofia can tolerate very wet / cold conditions. Three years ago we had one of the wettest winters on record, the plants didn't suffer at all, infact they put on so much root during the winter that they were nearly impossible to dig. I must add though, that the wetter the winter here, the higher the average temperature, and thus the roots were able to grow all through the winter. This was also noticed with Crocosmia, as corms were between 50 -75% larger than normal, and without being swollen; so much for dormancy. The main problem I have here with Kniphofia is that in this month in particular I can have temps of 15-18C by day and -4C by night, and on very wet ground, and thus could suggest that their dormancy is the key factor to their survival. Kniphofia will literally grow all year round if the temperature is right, thus in colder areas they probably switch off for a while. Whilst in areas like mine the switch is proverbially switched on and off all the time which isn't neccessarily helpful at all, and in particular to Kniphofia it could lead to the rotting of soft tissues and sudden death by violet root rot, one of the worst Kniphofia diseases. Similarly I have found here that if grown in pots, Kniphofia generally like to be kept on the dry side during winter, if kept too wet they will rot for a pastime. Hope this helps. Best Wishes, Dave (Plymouth, UK) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.577 / Virus Database: 366 - Release Date: 03/02/04 From arlen.jose@verizon.net Sun Feb 8 12:12:35 2004 Message-Id: From: "arlen jose" Subject: (no subject) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 12:12:26 -0500 Greeting All, It's a cool and windy day in Cambridge MA somewhere in the low 40's, but at least it's sunny and we can re-charge out batteries. I was hoping someone on this list can help me. I am searching for Agapanthus Inapertus, but it seems that the only available web sites are either in South Africa (as seeds) or plants in England or Australia. I am looking for a near or flowering size plant but the shipping costs from over seas would cost a small fortune. If anyone knows of a source in the US, it would greatly appreciated. Warm Regards, Fred Biasella Cambridge (Boston) MA UDSA Zone 6B From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Feb 8 12:51:33 2004 Message-Id: <40267723.7020902@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: (no subject) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 12:51:31 -0500 Fred: I did a quick search and found these. I have no personal experience with any of them. Arnold http://www.maasnursery.com/mappage.htm http://www.cistus.com/plantlist/ag.html http://www.durionursery.com/ http://www.emerisa.com/ From voltaire@islandnet.com Sun Feb 8 14:02:18 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Agapanthus inapertus in U.S. Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:02:10 -0800 Cistus Nursery, near Portland Oregon, grows Agapanthus inapertus, Agapanthus inapertus 'Major Hybrids', and Agapanthus inapertus var. major. These are not necessarily available for sale this year, as the list is their "Master List". Check the website at http://www.cistus.com Diane Whitehead From plants_man@bigpond.com Sun Feb 8 17:23:22 2004 Message-Id: <012501c3ee93$0ce986a0$51fa8690@userbwbb7lkmiq> From: "Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan" Subject: Eucomis vandermerwei flowers and bulb Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:29:42 +1100 Greetings, I have recently uploaded this little gem to the ABA Bulbgal. Have a great day, Dash. Image link http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/details.php?image_id=981 Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan, Mainly Amaryllids Garden,P O Box 173, Barnawartha,Victoria,3688, Australia. +61 02 60267377, Visit my web site @ http://www.mainlyamaryllidsgarden.com Now with Online Shopping Cart & Payment Method ------------------------------------------------- Email the Australian Bulb Association at: support@ausbulbs.org ABA Web Sites: http://www.ausbulbs.org Checkout the bulb images at http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/ From vikingdoc@earthlink.net Sun Feb 8 20:02:35 2004 Message-Id: <410-220042191253250@earthlink.net> From: "Kathy Stokmanis" Subject: Agapanthus inapertus Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:02:53 -0800 It's also available at bulbmania.com. I have not ordered from them. Kathy S. From pollards1@cox.net Sun Feb 8 21:35:41 2004 Message-Id: From: Shawn Pollard Subject: Hermodactylus Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 20:36:00 -0700 Dear all, The widow iris (Hermodactylus tuberosus) have been in bloom for several days now. For the very first time, I noticed they had a scent, rather pleasant. I never noticed a scent all five years I grew them in West Texas; probably too much wind and dust! Shawn Pollard Tucson, AZ From msittner@mcn.org Mon Feb 9 11:21:19 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040209073905.018a2860@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Starting winter growing seed/Veltheimia seed Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 08:06:27 -0800 Dear All, I looked through all my records of starting Veltheimia seed and saw my best results came from starting seed in early October when it would have been very warm here. The next time I have a chance at V. bracteata (bi-color) seed I'll try bottom heat since I have no survivors from my other attempts at that seed. Over the years I've been collecting hints for particular kinds of seed so will add this suggestion about Veltheimia. There are so many factors to consider in starting seed. Some seed is notoriously short lived and needs to be started right away and other seed needs a curing so to speak before it will come up. Vic Girrard in a talk on growing bulbs from seed offered a helpful rule that often works. If a bulb comes from an area with winter rainfall start the seed in fall and if from summer rainfall start in spring. This is why Alberto suggested we add information to the BX offerings so people would know when to start their seeds. Rachel Saunders has said many times that a number of the South Africa species (especially Irids) from the winter rainfall Cape area need a change from day and night temperatures to germinate properly. They are best started in the fall when days are still warm and nights cool. Bottom heat for those might make the temperatures in the soil too uniform. Veltheimia bracteata is not a winter rainfall Cape species however. In my experience you can keep those first seedlings of this species growing for a year or more before they go dormant which may give you more flexibility in timing. Some seedlings go dormant when the weather gets warmer (again a lot of the South African irids) so starting them in early fall (instead of winter) if you live in a climate with hot summers gives your seedlings more time to grow and form a larger bulb or a corm before they go dormant which gives them a better chance of surviving that first dormancy. If you live in a climate with cool summers you may get by with starting seeds later. I know someone who has success with some of the seeds I've been talking about with a late winter sowing, but his summers aren't hot. Last year I started most of my Calochortus seed in February and I had my best survival rate yet. I used to start seed in fall or even early winter and most would come up during our wettest coldest time of the year and go down rather promptly as well. I wonder how long the seed of Veltheimia bracteata remains viable. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From msittner@mcn.org Mon Feb 9 11:21:20 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040209080635.018a64d0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: PBS wiki Birthday Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 08:13:16 -0800 Dear All, A year ago we started our PBS wiki. I find it rather staggering to see how much has been contributed: both pictures and information. Thanks to the ever growing list of contributors and to Mark McDonough for helping me with corrections and keeping all those rogue files off our files page. Thanks to Mark Wilcox who has been a wonderful consultant teaching us new tricks which has reduced the time needed to make changes. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From mysticgardn@yahoo.com Mon Feb 9 12:04:46 2004 Message-Id: <20040209170432.94539.qmail@web40506.mail.yahoo.com> From: Ann Marie Subject: PBS wiki Birthday Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:04:32 -0800 (PST) A thank you to both Mark and Mary Sue for make this site what it is today, for without Mary Sue's pushing us to great things we would have lost our way, thank you all very much I can say for myself alone I have gained so much knowledge. Ann Marie Mary Sue Ittner wrote:Dear All, A year ago we started our PBS wiki. I find it rather staggering to see how much has been contributed: both pictures and information. Thanks to the ever growing list of contributors and to Mark McDonough for helping me with corrections and keeping all those rogue files off our files page. Thanks to Mark Wilcox who has been a wonderful consultant teaching us new tricks which has reduced the time needed to make changes. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Ann Marie So. California, San Gabriel Valley, Zone 21 (Sunset Western Garden book) , influenced by both marine and interior air(Santa Ana winds). This makes it perfect for Citrus trees and most So African plants. I collect and sometimes sell belladonnas, nerines, oxalis, moraea, amaryllis, palms, epiphyllums, succulents and other south african bulbs. email me at mysticgardn@yahoo.com for list of bulbs and plants for sale. For home and garden sculptures go to http://www.rjunkdrawer.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Mon Feb 9 12:18:49 2004 Message-Id: <4027C7B0.FFE93589@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Galanthus, Crocosmia, Amaryllis & South Africa. Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 09:47:28 -0800 Dear All: As I traveled in Devon, England last week, Galanthus nivalis were in full flower, in the hedges, alongside the lanes, in the lawns of gardens, in full sun and in shady areas. The markings on the inner perianth segments varied as did the shape of the outer segments. I am of the opinion that geographical variations are many and varied. I would like to have the time to note all such, being convinced that there are many 'forms' occurring naturally. The height of the plants also varied considerably. David Fenwick and I talked about this over dinner. For those of you who have never met David, let me say he is a grand person and has a very wide knowledge of plants. His comments regarding Crocosmia, are fascinating, and he recently found a new form on Drake's Island, located in Plymouth Sound. His research into the distribution of Amaryllis belladonna will, I am sure, be of interest to many. I would suggest he be asked to write about this and about the Crocosmia finding so we all can learn more about these plants. David has the ability to describe in an easy understandable way complex matters. I think him for a delightful evening that kept my companions who were not gardeners or interested in bulbs, fascinated. On another matter, I will, God willing, be leading a tour to Southern Africa in September, from the 6th to the 24th. Any person interested should contact me privately at johnbryan@att.net and I will be glad to send a brochure. Do not forget to give me the snail mail address to which it should be sent. Cheers, John E. Bryan From vikingdoc@earthlink.net Mon Feb 9 13:01:46 2004 Message-Id: <410-2200421918154770@earthlink.net> From: "Kathy Stokmanis" Subject: Starting winter growing seed Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:01:54 -0800 Climate makes such a difference, which is why I really appreciate people posting their zones and information about their climate. Mary Sue gardens on the coast in Northern California and I garden inland in the foothills of the Sierras. What a difference a hundred or so miles makes. This year my climate must have been ideal for winter sowing. Calochortus venusta planted outside in uncovered pots this fall from my own seed and several months later C. splendens from PBS BX seed in pots covered with plastic bags both germinated very well and survive. These fragile seedlings get knocked down easily by the rain but I still have a plethora of survivors. Calochortus grows wild here and the grasses sprout with the fall rains in November and December, slowly growing taller all winter. I think they must provide a natural support for the C. seedlings without overshadowing them. Sparaxis hybrids, Bulbinella cauda felis, Allium platycaule, Hesperanthus magna, H. cuculata and Moraea loebsen (?) also responded very well to winter sowing--all BX seed. The Brunsvigia grandiflora seeds started last October (not exactly winter sowing, since it's still quite hot here then) have been outside unprotected all winter. They are doing well. I love to read about seed sowing successes and failures. So far I have just been guessing and blundering about. I need to get a good reference on it and will review the PBS archives. I know there was a discussion of favorite books somewhere. Kathy Stokmanis Supposedly Sunset zone 7 but it hasn't snowed at my place in two years--just rain, rain and more rain. Occasional frosts in the morning. Very hot and dry in summer for prolonged periods. I'm more worried about my seedlings surviving the summer than I am about the winter. From angelopalm69@inwind.it Mon Feb 9 13:23:05 2004 Message-Id: <000d01c3ef39$55101ec0$beb0623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Eucomis propagation Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:19:10 +0100 Greetings All, I was wondering if the leaves on the top of the Eucomis flowers could be used to make leaf cuttings? It would be curious, as pineapples can be started from the top of the fruits (who hasn't done this at least one time in his gardener's life??), if this worked for pineapple lilies ! best wishes Angelo From rpries@sbcglobal.net Mon Feb 9 13:56:53 2004 Message-Id: <20040209185650.6993.qmail@web80005.mail.yahoo.com> From: Robt R Pries Subject: Hermodactylus Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:56:50 -0800 (PST) Not that it really matters but I always found Hermodactylus to be a mouth full. Fortunately this plant has been returned to the genus Iris and is now Iris tuberosa. It is sort of like bell bottom trousers, if you wait long enough they come back. Of course now we will never know if someone using the new(old) name is 50 years behind the times or current with this last years changes. I suspect that Hermodactylus will be used in most literature for another twenty years before the old/new name becomes restablished. Shawn Pollard wrote:Dear all, The widow iris (Hermodactylus tuberosus) have been in bloom for several days now. For the very first time, I noticed they had a scent, rather pleasant. I never noticed a scent all five years I grew them in West Texas; probably too much wind and dust! Shawn Pollard Tucson, AZ _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon Feb 9 15:23:11 2004 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Starting winter growing seed Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 20:20:56 +0000 and "Moraea loebsen (?) also responded very well to winter sowing--all BX seed. The Brunsvigia " Hi Kathy: It is Moraea loubseri. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.latam.msn.com/ From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Mon Feb 9 16:36:54 2004 Message-Id: <001501c3ef53$fe9e0a00$2689eb50@TheAfricanGarden> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Galanthus, Crocosmia, Amaryllis & South Africa. Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 21:30:46 -0000 Hi John, Thank you for your kind comments, it was a privilege to meet you and your friends. I'll write something for the group in due course but I've still a fair way to go regarding the research into the distribution of Amaryllis belladonna. I've a fair idea, but now I've got the fair idea I have to get confirmation, proof and of course bulbs for the purposes of comparison. Then I have to put everything together. After I saw you I started an article for a national Portuguese Newspaper and I've just had confirmation of its publication this evening, so this may bring even more useful information; as will a reply when I get it from The National Maritme Museum of South Africa. So watch this space. Just to let eveyone know what I am working on I'm researching how Amaryllis belladonna came to Europe, and a few people on the list are already aware of this. For others though I'm researching the potential that the bulb was imported into Europe by the Portuguese and roughly between 1500 and 1510. I am also researching the potential that the bulb was imported into Brazil, probably from Madeira, between the latter date and 1560. The bulb was introduced into Brazil as part of the trade triangle between Africa, Portugal and the New World and is connected to the slave trade and the global spread of the cultivation of sugar cane. Les Hannibal's daughter Dorothy has just informed me in a completely unrelated mail that it was Portuguese emigrants that imported the bulb into the San Fransisco Bay Area at the turn of the century, early 1900s. So obviously we have to thank the Portuguese for all sorts of things. Best Wishes, Dave (Plymouth, UK) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.577 / Virus Database: 366 - Release Date: 03/02/04 From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Mon Feb 9 17:39:10 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040210094249.00b2be80@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Starting winter growing seed/Veltheimia seed Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:42:49 +1100 At 08:06 9/02/04 -0800, you wrote: >Dear All, > >I looked through all my records of starting Veltheimia seed and saw my best >results came from starting seed in early October when it would have been >very warm here. The next time I have a chance at V. bracteata (bi-color) >seed I'll try bottom heat since I have no survivors from my other attempts >at that seed. Over the years I've been collecting hints for particular >kinds of seed so will add this suggestion about Veltheimia. > Mary Sue et al, I didn't respond to the Veltheimia thread as I came in fairly late (been sick again so not regularly downloading email), but given your comments here now I'll contribute. Last July I was sent seed of both mixed colours and yellow Veltheimias by Doug Westfall (Thank you yet again Doug)...... These were relatively fresh (i.e from recent season) but were not "just picked" or anything like that as far as I know. I also requested and received Veltheimias from a couple of other sources (both times as mixed or bicolor seeds from memory). Checking up on various sources it seemed that I was best to sow in either autumn or winter. Doug recommended that I hold them until my own plants here had their seed maturing so that they would be sown at the same time as they naturally would be harvested and sown here (which makes lots of sense). Given I had heard that they were successfully sown in spring I more or less compromised and sowed during late spring about as mine were setting seed but about 3 or so weeks before that seed matured. I sowed the seed on the 30th October and it started germinating a few weeks later. From the yellow I currently have 9 or 11 seeds up, and pretty much 100% germination from all the other bicolors and mixed colour seed (I can get exact figured if you like as I kept track of amounts of seed in each pot etc). Given that we have a distinct total dormancy in summer here of the Veltheimias I have been a bit concerned that these would crisp off as soon as the weather got to high temps so I've been concerned how long it takes a new seedling to set up a bulb enough to come back if it goes dormant (anyone know how long it takes to set up a sufficient bulb?). They've been through over a week or 30'C plus (including 4 concecutive days over 37'C) over New Years and recently been back up to 37 after a relatively cool January for us. So far no damage and the seedlings are still going strong. So it appears that they are germinating just fine without any sort of treatment at all after being stored for a number of months (not in the fridge but just at room temperature). 100% or close germination in most cases including pretty good germination in the yellow seed which is supposed to be so much more difficult. At this stage it looks like the seedlings will stay evergreen this year, or I think they would have reacted to this heat and gone dormant already. I am hoping they'll stay evergreen as this means bigger bulb and less stress from going dormant. The seedlings are growing in my fairly shaded and protected seed area so this will be helping to cut down the temps as well, plus there is little direct sun and not during the heat of the day. The main bulbs I have are growing in the full sun and are totally dormant now, but some of these seedlings will end up being placed in full shade as I read that these plants can take anything from heavy shade through to full sun and still manage to flower (which is pretty rare in bulb circles, that is for sure). I guess I'd better mention my sowing regime for all my seeds........ standard commercial "seed raising mix" although I am picky about which brand as I find some break down or compact too quickly) filled to about 1cm from top of small pot. The seeds are then sowed on top of this mix, pressing gently but not covering with mix. I then fill to the top of the pot with 3-5mm gravel. This gives about 1cm of gravel coverage which helps to keep surface moist, insulate from heat and controls moss and other covering nasties which always appear if gravel is not present. This method of sowing has worked for me on pretty much any genus (even including Nerines and some of the other fleshy seeded amaryllids) and I am very pleased with it. If I am sowing seed of something that is likely to germinate quickly I also include a bit of bulb food in the bottom third of the pot so that the roots of the seedlings can find it once they have developed sufficiently. Those seeds that are likely to take ages to germinate I do not bother doing this for as they obviously enough will not be using it for a while by which time it will have leached out of the pot anyway. So is this any help to anyone? I have been rather pleased with just how succesful the germination of Veltheimias have been for me, and particularly as from 3 different sources. Hopefully this will help others if it gives some sort of pointer to something that might be working for me that they haven't tried? Worth a try anyway . Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Mon Feb 9 20:12:44 2004 Message-Id: <3A027517-5B66-11D8-B43D-003065EFBD84@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Kniphofia adaptability again Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 17:12:42 -0800 For those who are interested in trying various named hybrids, the new McClure and Zimmerman spring bulb catalog just arrived and on the back cover this year they are featuring a good number of different clones. This is the most I've ever seen offered by one company in the U.S. They are offering the following clones: Alcazar, Bressingham, First Sunrise, Green Jade, Ice Queen, Little Maid, Nancy's Red, Percy's Pride, Royal Standard, Shining Sceptre and Vanilla, and claim they're hardy in USDA zones 5-8. You can also order online at . --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Mon Feb 9 20:17:16 2004 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Starting winter growing seed/Veltheimia seed Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 17:17:14 -0800 > Mary Sue et al, > > I didn't respond to the Veltheimia thread as I came in fairly late > (been > sick again so not regularly downloading email), but given your comments > here now I'll contribute. > I planted all my Veltheimia seeds, including some I harvested from my own plants back in the summer, in October (mid-autumn), and they all sprouted pretty much. I do the same as Paul with my seed starting, except that I mix in some small gravel/grit and sand and other stuff into the seed-starting mix to make it drain extremely well, and I sprinkle Turface granules on top of the seeds instead of gravel. Otherwise, I start almost all my seeds the same way. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10On Feb 9, 2004, at 2:42 PM, Paul Tyerman wrote: From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Mon Feb 9 20:28:58 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040210123245.01355100@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Starting winter growing seed/Veltheimia seed Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:32:45 +1100 > >I sowed the seed on the 30th October and it started germinating a few weeks >later. From the yellow I currently have 9 or 11 seeds up, and pretty much >100% germination from all the other bicolors and mixed colour seed (I can >get exact figured if you like as I kept track of amounts of seed in each >pot etc). Given that we have a distinct total dormancy in summer here of Howdy again All, Just to give exact germination numbers (I have been out and checked this morning)..... "Yellow" seed - 9 of 11 have germinated. "Mixed Colour" - 12 of 12 have germinated "Pink and Bicolors" - 21 of 24 have germinated "Mixed Colours" - 14 of 17 have germinated. The names within quotations are what they were received labelled as. It will be interesting to see what the flower results are. Some are from Bill Djik and some are from Doug Westfall (the other source was PBS BX so I'd have to look it up... Lee Poulson rings a bell in memory) so there could be rather an interesting variety of colours amongst them when they flower. Here's hoping!! Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Feb 10 13:48:26 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040209175253.00ba6398@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Hermodactylus Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:53:25 -0800 Robert Pries wrote: >Not that it really matters but I always found Hermodactylus to be a mouth >full. Fortunately this plant has been returned to the genus Iris and is >now Iris tuberosa. Robert, will you please provide the citation for that change? Thanks, Jane McGary From vikingdoc@earthlink.net Mon Feb 9 23:18:12 2004 Message-Id: <410-22004221041829340@earthlink.net> From: "Kathy Stokmanis" Subject: Seeds Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 20:18:29 -0800 Thank you, Alberto and Mary Sue. I couldn't read my poor writing on the label, Alberto and now I can correct it. Mary Sue, this is pure beginner's luck with the Calochortus. The only geophyte seed I've successfully grown before joining PBS this November were Liliums. I think it's just because the winter has been mild and I did sow both Calochortus much earlier in the year, possibly October or November for my own seed, very early December for BX seed. As for the Veltheimia, only two have sprouted, but it's early days yet. I am very happy to be reminded of the TOW page. Now that you've brought it up, I remember you mentioning it before. I refer to the archives periodically and find them a great resource. Kathy Stokmanis Zone 8?, Northern California, Sierra foothills, 50+ inches of rain November thru April, dry and very hot during the summer. From msittner@mcn.org Tue Feb 10 02:02:15 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040209205609.00cec4d0@mail.mcn.org> From: James Waddick (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Smaller Narcissus - PBS and Alpine Topic of the Week Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 23:00:51 -0800 Dear friends; For this week's topic (actually 10 days) we are lucky to have two views of a fascinating spring bulb topic. The first is posted below and the second will follow tomorrow. Sure to promote a long wish list for fall bulb purchases. Dave Kanstedt - Smaller narcissus have been Dave Karnstedt's focus well before the start of his nursery 'Cascade Daffodils' in the mid-80s in MN. He is now in not quite 'balmy' Oregon and is currently not selling bulbs. He hopes to change that soon. For more glowing words on Dave see http://www.greatplants.com/growers/david_karnstedt/david_karnstedt.html THE LITTLE DAFFODILS IN SPECIES FORM by Dave Kanstedt There are a number of smaller species and forms of the genus Narcissus that make interesting and rewarding plants for special areas in rock gardens, particularly when several of them represent a significant challenge to grow successfully. Most daffodil species are native to the countries bordering the Mediterranean, the majority to the Iberian Peninsula. They grow where there is a distinct rainy season and a corresponding dry season. Several of them grow in montane regions, at altitudes up to ten thousand feet; still others grow at sea level. Daffodils have been grouped into a horticultural classification that arranges them in Divisions (1-13) that correspond to certain characteristics. This formal classification system enables one to categorize them for showing and other purposes. There are also used over those 13 Divisions, primarily for show bench purposes, three general groupings based loosely on height of the plant and diameter of the bloom: miniature (usually under 12" in height and 50 mm in width); intermediate (12-14" tall and less than 80 mm in width); and standards (indeterminate height but greater than 80 mm in width). One issue I have long been in opposition to is considering a small bloom on a tall stem as "miniature." To my mind, it begs the very definition of miniature. The same is true of the recent designation of Intermediate. As far as I am concerned, the flowers so grouped should be miniature or intermediate in all their characters! As might be expected, species daffodils vary widely in height and width. Perhaps the smallest, overall, is N. asturiensis known at one time as N. minimus. This little trumpet daffodil is all of three or four inches tall with a tiny flower barely wider than a fingernail. The trumpet is often serrated to the point of being fringed and is bigger than would be appropriate for the perianth. That's the showman speaking! For the average individual able to succeed with this snowmelt species, clumps of this in earliest spring can be very rewarding. Recently, there have come on the market gross examples masquerading as this species. Supposedly, N. minor, a common and highly variable species across much of Spain ranges in size from the tiniest forms, e.g., asturiensis, to examples almost as large as standard daffodils. In the latter case, something so large loses all pretense for being "miniature" and is best ignored. It may be that, ultimately, this little gem will be recognized, sadly, merely as a very small form of N. minor. Succeeding in a well drained gritty, pH 6 soil kept wet during periods of growth and dryish during dormancy (although not "bone dry" but shaded from the heat of the summer sun much as it would be by grasses and forbs in the mountain meadows that are its home) will be to its liking. Intercross the blooms and plant seed each year as my experience has been that this is not long lived. The most difficult part is actually obtaining it! N. minor has been the parent to many small hybrids most of which are both very similar and hopelessly mixed in the trade. Because things like 'Little Gem,' 'Bagatelle,' and 'Wee Bee' are such good growers, they are widely available. Just don't be convinced that you're getting what you ordered - even from specialists! The species, its forms/sports and hybrids all open pollinate readily but seldom produce anything that is different or better. If you don't care if they do, i.e., the more the merrier, don't pick the pods before they open and let them seed about. If you want to keep the clone pure don't let the seed drop in place. Another little species (with almost sessile blooms on two to three inch stems) that is delightful when sited in an area above a pathway where it can be readily seen is N. rupicola rupicola and it's still quite scarce white form, rupicola waterii. The yellow form can be found growing in pockets of humus in rocks in its homeland that are wet during growth and bone dry during dormancy. It is sometimes amazing to see just how little material there can be in these pockets. Despite the alkaline nature of the rocks on which this is often found growing, the decaying humus provides a distinctly acid environment. This is not particularly easy to grow in captivity, although, when happy, it can be long lived for a species. I've had the same few bulbs for over ten years most of the time growing right in the field. They bloom faithfully each spring, but they have shown no tendency to crowd into a host of daffodils! The scarce white form requires cooler conditions, damper, distinctly acid soils and protection from the heat of the summer sun when dormant. Since this and asturiensis are so small, they really should have some protection from the elements and, of course, slugs! I mulch mine with a layer of poultry grit to protect them from rain-splashed soil because I use them in hybridizing. The yellow form of this species is one of the parents (the other is N. poeticus) of a group of rather widely available hybrids, e.g., 'Sundial,' 'Sun Disc,' 'Bebop,' and 'Little Sentry.' One distinctive and outstanding clone from this group is 'Clare.' It is well worth tracking down, and not only because it is a good do-er, as it is a charming flower in its own right. One goal I have, as a hybridizer, is to remake this Alec Gray cross with better forms of both parents. There is the problem of getting pollen to a flower that does not bloom in sync with the pollen donor! One of the problems with this species is that the pistil/stigma of rupicola is well down in the tube and the flower needs to be torn open to reach it. In a way, this is something of a blessing in disguise as the tube can be gently rolled between one's fingers to dislodge the pollen from the anthers (that occur above the stigma) and pollinate the bloom (without tearing the bloom) and, in this way, one can obtain a few seed each season. With any of the daffodil species, it is always wise to plant a few seed each season as insurance. The white form, waterii, has been used successfully a few times over the years to produce both standard ('Ocean Spray, 'Dainty Miss') and miniature ('Xit,' 'Yellow Xit,' etc.) hybrids. One of the loveliest I've seen (at least from its photo) is a seedling obtained from triandrus triandrus (albus) and waterii pollen and named 'Craigton Coquette.' It is illustrated with a fine photograph on page 412 of Volume 71 of the Bulletin of the Alpine Garden Society, "The Alpine Gardener," taken when the exhibited pan won a P.C. in April 2003. Two older, very attractive but virtually unobtainable hybrids of different form than the above hybrid with triandrus triandrus (albus) are 'Raindrop' and 'Icicle.' That little vignette serves as a good segue to one of the more popular species, N. triandrus triandrus, (in its many forms) that seems to do well where happy, even modestly seeding about. This is one of the few species that I am able to field grow without any particular attention. I will pollinate several florets of the various better formed/colored examples in the group to gain a small amount of seed to plant each season. A number of forms have been given sub-specific rank based on color in this, another widely variable species. People who've seen triandrus triandrus growing in the wild in Spain (where it can be locally abundant), report seeing almost every color, form and size in the range somewhere in all those examples. I grow mine out in the field, in an acidic soil, lightly fertilized each fall. After senescence, I will cover the soil with a barrier to keep it dry and prevent the Sun from heating the soil. Even while ostensibly "dry" during dormancy, there is usually a bit of moisture in the soil nonetheless but for most Narcissus species, moisture and soil warmth is an invariably fatal combination. In all the years I have grown this species from seed, I have never bloomed a clear white one, although I once saw in a show an exquisite example like no other! The flowers of triandrus triandrus (albus) have a slight central thickening of tissue in each perianth segment that tends to a faintly yellowish hue. While distracting close up, at a distance, this is not as noticeable and is only a consideration for a hybridizer trying to improve on what Nature has provided! There is a form of this species, known as loiseuleurii, that is said to be native to the Iles des Glenans off the coast of NW Spain/SW France. I don't recall if it has ever been found there in the wild since its original discovery, however. The plants now seen descend from collections made in the last century. It all parts, it is a rather more robust form of the species with larger flowers of somewhat better substance and form, although, oddly, not as permanent as the basic species. It tends to increase bulb size, rather than splitting, and may be a natural tetraploid; work should be done to verify if this is the case. It is fertile and is often the form that has been used to produce Division 5 standard daffodil hybrids that, until recently, have all been infertile. Some of the best miniature hybrids, e.g., 'April Tears,' Woodstar,' 'Hawera,' 'Angel's 'Whisper,' etc. have been produced with the species in combination with various species/forms of the jonquilla group. There are few finer miniatures than a well-grown stem of 'April Tears,' particularly when the stem has five blooms all open and arranged to one side in order of ascending size. For the most part, these hybrids will do well just about everywhere. 'Hawera,' when happy, can often grow so tall (14-16") as to no longer be miniature. Because the latter is a much better grower than the former, one will usually get this clone when purchasing 'April Tears' off the shelf. 'April Tears' is best purchased from specialists to be assured of the correct clone. The best for last! N. cyclamineus is a unique species, there is no other remotely like it! The segments of the perianth reflex so tightly that they are in the same plane with the trumpet, i.e., 180 degrees. Native to wooded, riverine benches in Portugal, this species has long been thought extinct. Recent discoveries have in Portugal, happily, proven this not to be the case. If you can keep it content (quite acid, humusy soil that never dries out and shaded from the heat of the summer Sun), intercrossing the blooms will produce a modest amount of seed each year that should be sown to keep the species in your garden. The form of the species has been transmitted into a whole range of both miniature and standard hybrids. The best forms inherit both the long trumpet and the sharply reflexed perianth of the species, along with the downward facing pose and can be most attractive. There are both yellow and white forms in these miniature hybrids and a considerably greater color range in the standard hybrids. All of the miniature hybrids are most desirable little daffodils for the rock garden, although it will take some searching to find a source. I have barely touched on several of the better-known species. There is a whole range of bulbocodium and cantabricus forms and hybrids out there that remain to be addressed. Many of these tend to be winter bloomers and are best in mild climates or grown under cover. Then there are the species of the multi-flowered Jonquilla group, again, left to another time. There used to be just a handful of daffodil species/forms but, in recent years, this has ballooned into dozens, nearly all naturally occurring hybrids between adjacent species. There are very few that I've even seen or ever expect to! With so much to choose from, the botanists are having a field day reclassifying and renaming all these forms! While I have grown daffodils for over five decades (and went into business to combat an overly aggressive case of "collectivitis"), I find that I still am learning something each spring with growing these small species and their hybrids. One of the major goals in hybridizing is to introduce color into the hybrids. At the moment, alas, one has a limited choice: either white or yellow usually concolorous and, occasionally, bicolored. The definitive (and very handy) reference for descriptions and photos of the commonly encountered miniature daffodil species and hybrids is a publication put out by the American Daffodil Society, "Miniature Daffodil Cultivars." It is available for twenty dollars from the American Daffodil Society, 4126 Winfield Road, Columbus, OH 43220. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Tue Feb 10 03:31:54 2004 Message-Id: <000d01c3efaf$7fb528c0$2689eb50@TheAfricanGarden> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Kniphofia adaptability again Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:25:50 -0000 >>>>>Alcazar, Bressingham, First Sunrise, Green Jade, Ice Queen, Little Maid, Nancy's Red, Percy's Pride, Royal Standard, Shining Sceptre and Vanilla, and claim they're hardy in USDA zones 5-8 Hi Lee, Just a little advice Ice Queen, Little Maid, Nancy's Red, Percy's Pride, Royal Standard and Shining Sceptre are hybrids that are quite susceptible to Violet Root Rot. That said, they are also very good and very useful hybrids, Royal Standard being perhaps the best bicolour I've seen. Best Wishes, Dave (Plymouth, UK) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.577 / Virus Database: 366 - Release Date: 03/02/04 From msittner@mcn.org Tue Feb 10 12:39:44 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040210093249.00cefc90@mail.mcn.org> From: James Waddick (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Smaller Narcissus -Part 2 PBS and Alpine Topic of the Week Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:38:03 -0800 Dear Friends As promised here is part 2 of the Topic of the Week on Smaller Narcissus, a different view of a fascinating subject. Smaller Narcissus PART TWO Nancy Wilson - Miniature and species narcissus especially historical ones have fascinated Nancy Wilson for decades. Her Northern California nursery is the tip of the iceberg. She has kindly put down a few basics to tempt readers and stimulate discussions on these Smaller Narcissus. To learn more about her and her nursery look for http://www.asis.com/~nwilson/index.html . Smaller Narcissus by Nancy Wilson I have grown Narcissus since I was a child, some 65 plus years ago. I always had a rock garden near by and the small varieties drew my attention. My first home after marriage was is Berkeley, California. The garden consisted of a steep rock bank with species Narcissus in the pockets. I divided them and they increased easily. I learned that many of these delightful species were native to Spain, Portugal, North Africa, Morocco, Algeria and France. We have visited Spain and France and have seen that endemic populations are rapidly being destroyed to make way for monoculture and freeways. Goats and cattle forage on their leaves and boys play soccer in the fields. I have devoted some of my gardening time to preserving these bulbs and spreading their delight to others who might carry on their preservation. N. bulbocodium and N. cantabricus species grow from sea level to over 3000 meters. Many grow in alpine conditions and generally like acid soil and a rocky terrain. Pockets in the rock garden are ideal for many species. When growing rare bulbs it is worth your while to research their native habitats and see if they will be compatible with yours. I live in Northern California where the winters occasionally get to 15 degrees F. and the summers are dry with mid day temperatures up to 100 F.. The nights always cool off. I grow N. bulbocodium, N. cantabricus and N. jonquilla forms well. They like my acid, clay soil and summer baking. I can neglect them in the summer and do not have to water. From November to March we get a lot of rain and they love it. In December and January N. bulbocodium albidus zaianicus blooms with rich yellow flowers. N. cantabricus var. foliosus has white flowers. They both like to grow in clumps and do not need to be disturbed for years. They will self seed. A little later in the spring N. bulbocodium var. conspicuus blooms with lemon yellow flowers and green striped perianths. N. cyclamineus likes a few hours of morning sun and a rocky wall that receives water all year. N. rupicola and N. rupicola ssp. watieri grow in the mountains above 1500 meters where there is snow cover in the winter and dry, well drained soils in the summer. They do well in my screen house where the pots freeze for a few days in winter. If your climate is colder you can plant the bulbs deeper than the usual three inches and mulch them well. The N. jonquilla species like winter rains and will tolerate wet feet but they like to dry off in the summer and bake. N. fernandesii and N. willkommii do well in the open. I have a clone of N. willkommii that came from Michael Jefferson Brown many years ago. It seems sterile but tolerates summer watering near a lawn or in the open rock garden and glows with multiple headed, deep yellow flowers in early spring. Most tazettas are too large for the rock garden. N. tazetta panizzianus and N. tazetta canariensis are the exception. N. 'odoratus' and the Dutch form of N. canaliculatus are under a foot tall and very floriferous. I would suggest many of the hybrid daffodils. The newer, rarer ones are well worth obtaining. Bill Dijk from New Zealand has introduced 'Little Becky', 'Little Emma', 'Little Flik' and 'Dainty Monique'. Rod Barwick, from Tasmania, has bred bulbocodium hybrids 'Smarple', 'Spoirot', and 'Kholmes'. 'Angel's Breath' and 'Angel's Whisper' are wonderful triandrus hybrids from his collection. 'Mickey', 'Minnie', and 'Mortie' are his very small cyclamineus hybrids. If you order bulbs from down under they will arrive in February. Refrigerate them for a week and then plant them immediately to acclimatize them. Roberta Watrous' 'Little Rusky' is a jonquil hybrid with several green eyed, orange rimmed flowers to a stem. 'Toto' and 'Oz', bred by Bill Pannill in the US, are larger but very floriferous and wonderful rock garden plants. A new introduction from Elise Havens, 'Bumble Bee', is charming. Then there are the tried and true favorites which are inexpensive and colorful, 'Little Gem', 'Little Beauty', 'Baby Moon', 'Golden Quince', 'Hawera', 'Midget', and 'Sundial'. These have been propagated by the Dutch and are readily available. The best way to build up a collection is to buy several of the same variety and plant them in clumps. Buy a few kinds each year and slowly build up your stock. They can be divided every three years for increase. In mild climates you can grow fall and winter flowering forms. Sometime in the near future we will have green flowers and pink bi-colors. Enjoy these wonderful flowers. Sources: The American Daffodil Society web page has a good list of suppliers listed under "Specialty Bulb Growers". For specific bulbs contact Nancy R. Wilson, 6525 Briceland Thorn Road, Garberville, CA 95542, nwilson@asis.com Reading: Narcissus, a Guide to Wild Daffodils, John W. Blanchard, Alpine Garden Society. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From hamish.sloan@virgin.net Tue Feb 10 16:52:36 2004 Message-Id: <005501c3f020$2d1c6080$e5070cc3@Douglasdale> From: "Hamish Sloan" Subject: Starting winter growing seed/Veltheimia seed Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:45:00 -0000 Hello All (and a late thought for Jenny H), I have used only the "wet paper towel" method with Veltheimia bracteata. If the seed is ripe and reasonably fresh, it grows. Own seed - 18 seeds germinated out of 18. V.b.rosalba from PBX - 7 seeds out of 7 germinated. V.b. pink and bicolours - 21 seeds germinated out of 21. V.b Lemon Flame - 4 seeds germinated out of 7. Latter result may be due to some seeds not fully ripe. for my own seed I left on the plane as long as possible. I do see that the V.b.pink and bicolours set of seedlings have a different shaped first proper leaf to the others, being more nearly parallel sided with a teaspoon shaped end. Others are more like a long isosceles triangle with a round end. I have been using this wet paper towel method a lot recently, and mainly on the Amaryllidaceae on which I concentrate. Most seed of Clivia miniata hybrids (77 out of 81), C. nobilis (10 out of 10), C. caulescens(2 out of 2) germinate reliably, some being S Africa purchase, some UK purchase, some UK friend, some own. Cyrtanthus depends on freshness of seed; if it is fresh, this method works very well. Amaryllis belladonna - a number of PBX offerings - works well, though have had one lot giving problem with mold. Strelitzia regina 9 out of 9 - but make sure the seed is FRESH and use rainwater that has had no contact with cement, etc., i.e. no lime or calcium compounds present. (Though I have not thought to try it, or better, not made the opportunity to try it with Nerine seed as yet. Jenny, in response to your query earlier, laying on soil surface is Ok. If your seed compost is a bit sstiff, the radical that first pops out of the seed may have difficulty penetrating the soil surface. Make a slit in the surface and pop the radicl into the slit, slight pressure from side to close. This will give the radical enough grip to mget it growing down to its natural depth for formation of the inital bulb.) Now, I need some help. Any suggestions on how to germinate Tecophilea cyanocrocus. Two lots of seed ex PBX so far going no where! Need cool period? need total dark? Regards Hamish ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Tyerman" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 1:32 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Starting winter growing seed/Veltheimia seed Just to give exact germination numbers (I have been out and checked this morning)..... > > "Yellow" seed - 9 of 11 have germinated. > "Mixed Colour" - 12 of 12 have germinated > "Pink and Bicolors" - 21 of 24 have germinated > "Mixed Colours" - 14 of 17 have germinated. From hamish.sloan@virgin.net Tue Feb 10 16:55:51 2004 Message-Id: <005e01c3f020$9bafdf40$e5070cc3@Douglasdale> From: "Hamish Sloan" Subject: Veltheimia germination correction Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:54:48 -0000 Hello All, In my last, for plane read plant. It makes some difference. :-) Regards Hamish From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Tue Feb 10 19:56:15 2004 Message-Id: <0FEB2E7B-5C2D-11D8-94D6-003065EFBD84@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Starting winter growing seed/Veltheimia seed Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:56:01 -0800 On Feb 10, 2004, at 1:45 PM, Hamish Sloan wrote: > Now, I need some help. Any suggestions on how to germinate Tecophilea > cyanocrocus. Two lots of seed ex PBX so far going no where! Need cool > period? need total dark? I had the same experience you have had. I paid good money two or three years in a row to several different British seed sellers (trustworthy ones, the ones many of you, myself included, have obtained many different species if seeds from over the years). I never got a single germination from the Tecophilaea seeds. Finally, a couple of years ago I had seeds from my own plants, and some packets of seeds from a couple of these same sources (Archibalds and Pottertons)--that I had saved in the refrigerator from orders the previous autumn. Based on some discussions that Mary Sue initiated (possibly a TOW?), I planted them all out in late September/very early October while the weather here in Southern California was still quite warm during the day (80s F./30 C., 50s at night) and about a month before the first rain fell. I left them outside fully exposed to the changing autumn seasonal weather here. Sometime in December after the winter rains had begun in November, all the little pots of seeds started sprouting. So I think they really need that warm daytime weather with the gradually increasingly chilly nights to start with, before being exposed to the cool days and rain of the beginning of the mediterranean style rainy season in order to initiate germination. In my previous attempts, by the time I got the seeds from the autumn orders it was already November or later and the days were no longer warm. It didn't occur to me to try holding them until the following early autumn. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From msittner@mcn.org Tue Feb 10 20:20:08 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040210165901.018a7ab0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Tecophilea seed Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:19:04 -0800 Dear Hamish, I'm very impressed with your seed successes especially after my failures last year with Veltheimia. Bill Dijk was selling seed of Tecophilaea when he was in Pasadena at the IBS Symposium in May 2002. Even though I had yet to get any of the seeds I had germinated from him before to bloom I wanted to try more so bought some of all three he was selling. I planted them in October 2002 and they germinated in great numbers in late December and January about the time plants show up every year naturally where I live. They have come back strongly and maybe a few more have germinated this year as well. This is the second year I have had a Tecophilaea bloom from my original sowing. My first seeds were sown in December 1999, again from Bill. They didn't germinate until late March and more germinated the following January. Perhaps it just takes awhile from when you start them before they come up, but starting early as Lee suggested means they come up when their normal cycle should be. The one that has bloomed for me is Tecophilaea cyanocrocus var. leichtlinii. It's the one with the gorgeous blue color on the outside with a white center. Last year in its first year of bloom it didn't seem to last very long, but this year it has sent up more than one flower and each flower has lasted a week or so. There is a bud on one of the corms of T. cyanocrocus that I bought from Bill at the Symposium in May 2002. They didn't bloom for me that first year growing at the wrong time but now seem to be on track. Lee has really good luck with this genus. I need to improve my technique. Thinking that he gets less rain I have tried sheltering them from my rain this year. In the past I've just let them be rained on. And I'm making sure the seedlings get fertilized more when they are young. I'm wondering if they need a warmer summer too. I never could get my Leucocorynes (one of my favorite genera) to bloom until they started spending their summers in my greenhouse. So maybe that's the next experiment to try. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From rpries@sbcglobal.net Tue Feb 10 21:00:54 2004 Message-Id: <20040211020039.5494.qmail@web80008.mail.yahoo.com> From: Robt R Pries Subject: Hermodactylus Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:00:38 -0800 (PST) Jane; A number of changes in nomenclature were presented at a conference on the iridaceae that I attended in Rome about 4 years ago. Last year the proceedings were finally published in the Italian Annals of Botany ( Anali Botanica). Unfortunately I have misplaced my copy and I wanted to cite this reference for another purpose a couple of weeks ago but the Missouri Botanical Garden could not find their copy when I went their a couple of weeks ago. They left a message on my answering machine that they have located their copy but I haven’t had a chance to get back. There were only about two dozen of us in attendance at this conference organized by Prof. Maretta Colasante and was inspired by the symposium I held at the Missouri Botanical Gardens a few years before. The article making these changes is part of a large ongoing study of monocotyledons and in particular Iris, by the Chase group at Jodrell labs at Kew. They have released a number of preliminary results in this paper and at the New Zealand symposium on Irises a year ago. As soon as I can get the exact reference I will send it. Another provocative result of their work is the removal of Iridaceae from the order Liliales to the order Asparagles this new assessment is rarely reflected on most phylogenetic websites and has made me somewhat cynical about most data on the internet. Even when hosted by reputable sources. Of course I am just as ignorant when it comes to a lot of dicot families. Actually I understand that the dicots are now considered polyphyletic. Jane McGary wrote:Robert Pries wrote: >Not that it really matters but I always found Hermodactylus to be a mouth >full. Fortunately this plant has been returned to the genus Iris and is >now Iris tuberosa. Robert, will you please provide the citation for that change? Thanks, Jane McGary _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Feb 10 21:20:07 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Tecophilaea seed Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:17:30 -0800 I also had no success germinating Tecophilaea seed until I was given some fresh seed in mid-October. They did not experience any hot conditions, but germinated in one month. Unfortunately at some point well before they were big enough to flower, I treated them inconsiderately during dormancy, from which they never emerged. I am trying again. 12 Archibald seeds, in my house - about 18 C in the daytime. 6 weeks have passed (sigh). -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From daffodil@wave.co.nz Wed Feb 11 08:19:04 2004 Message-Id: <00d501c3f0a1$9a989e40$04c760cb@Dads> From: "Bill Dijk" Subject: Starting winter growing seed-Tecophilaea cyanocrocus Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 02:11:34 +1300 Hi Hamish, I think Mary Sue, Lee Poulsen and Diane Whitehead, have already covered the germination of the Tecophilaea cyanocrocus seed quite adequate. Like Mary Sue and Lee Poulsen, I sow my fresh seed in April-May (Southern Hemisphere) in deep seed trays, in a well-draining sterile seed mix, topped off with ½ inch of finer mix or river sand. The seed normally germinate in 6-8 weeks ( don't give up hope yet Diane) if everything goes according to schedule. During that time I pay particular attention to watering, not to wet, and always start them in semi-shaded, covered open benches, (Mary Sue knows what I am talking about) in the coolest part of the nursery, to stop them damping off. As soon as the seeds are up, I usually take them outside to harden off and grow them on, and let nature do the rest. I will attach a picture of successful germinated Tecophilaea seedlings after 3 months, from last season's endeavour, and will ask Mary Sue (nicely) to put it on the Wiki in the appropriate place. I have just finished collecting all the (hand-pollinated) 3 Tecophilaea species seed, and if you're interested in some fresh seed, contact me privately. Best wishes, Bill D. Tauranga, New Zealand :annual rainfall :1250 mm. Sunshine hours, mean annual : 2350 hours. Temp.mean max.Summer : 25°C. Winter:15°C. Temp.mean min. Summer :14.5°C. Winter: 5°C. Wet mild Winters with occasional light frost. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hamish Sloan" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Starting winter growing seed/Veltheimia seed > > Now, I need some help. Any suggestions on how to germinate Tecophilea > cyanocrocus. Two lots of seed ex PBX so far going no where! Need cool > period? need total dark? > > Regards Hamish From Bonsaigai37@aol.com Wed Feb 11 09:30:21 2004 Message-Id: <10e.2c08c010.2d5b9679@aol.com> From: Bonsaigai37@aol.com Subject: Lovely Ledebouria Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:30:17 EST Good Day All, I cross posted part of this to the Fat Plants Yahoo Group but I thought that reaching out to PBS with a few more questions could bring additional information. Does anyone know if Ledebouria is self-fertile? I know that it must be somewhat self fertile because of past experience, but I am looking to pollinate my L. galpinii and only one is presently spiking. I've gotten L. socialis and Masara's Drimia (I think it's a Ledebouria) species ex. Somalia both to produce a pittance of seed on their own volition. As far as pollen production and stigma receptivity, and fertilization; which comes first the chicken or the egg? I've had a blasted time with my Veltheimia seed production this year. NOT ONE capsule has formed thus far. Perhaps it is the same for all Hyacinthaceae? Recently I've had clarified L. pauciflora as the type form of L. socialis. Is there a good paper on the genus? Wasn't Venter doing somthing on it? Does the pollen store well? I suppose the method for storing pollen of Hippeastrum could theoretically work... Anyone doing it? Thanks all, Michael From jshields104@insightbb.com Wed Feb 11 09:56:25 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040211095033.04f822e0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Lovely Ledebouria Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:56:24 -0500 Hi Michael, My Ledebouria hypoxidoides have bloomed every season for several years, but have never set any seed. They bloom in summer here, and they are always outdoors in the open air when they bloom. Does anyone know what their natural pollinators are in habitat? My guess would be very small gnats of some sort, probably ones that are missing here. My only other Ledebouria species is L. cooperi, which has never bloomed. Are there clones of L. cooperi that will flower? Maybe I could trade some non-flowering for one that blooms? Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) At 09:30 AM 2/11/2004 -0500, Michael wrote: >....... >Does anyone know if Ledebouria is self-fertile? I know that it must be >somewhat self fertile because of past experience, but I am looking to >pollinate my >L. galpinii and only one is presently spiking. I've gotten L. socialis and >Masara's Drimia (I think it's a >Ledebouria) species ex. Somalia both to produce a pittance of seed on their >own volition. > >As far as pollen production and stigma receptivity, and fertilization; which >comes first the chicken or the egg? I've had a blasted time with my >Veltheimia seed production this year. NOT ONE capsule has formed thus >far. Perhaps it >is the same for all Hyacinthaceae? >....... ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From msittner@mcn.org Wed Feb 11 10:11:45 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040211071026.018a3830@mail.mcn.org> From: "Lyn Edwards" (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Smaller Narcissus--TOW Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:11:15 -0800 Another TOW featuring one of my all time favourites, the smaller Narcissus. I guess the cyclamineus,both the species and the cultivars are at the top of my list and Bill Djik's Daffy Duck is on my "desperately want" list for the future after seeing Bill's image of this on ABimages, if and when it becomes available here in Aus.I'll be among the first in line. Apart from what isn't possible yet there is what is, terrible grammar that,and here we are very fortunate to have Rod Barwick's wonderful miniatures without the problems of turning them around. One of the great joys of the new year is the arrival of Rod's Glenbrook catalogue-a treasure trove of wonderous miniature Narcissus and other delectable bulbous goodies to agonise over with the budget in mind. His bulbocodiums Smarple and Spoirot have already been mentioned but there is also Kholmes, Olumbo and Mitimoto,a lovely lemon hoop petticoat, and that is just naming a few.I am also very fond of a Triandrus cultivar Little Missus from the same source. This is starting to sound like an advertisement which is not my intention. The smaller daffs are wonderful as potted bulbs and its possible to have quite a large collection, small plants don't take up much room and are very decorative and easy to care for on the whole,there is also early flowering varieties bringing delights during winter. The plant societies are a wonderful resource for seed of the species and I am hopeful that the coming season will see babies close to flowering and who knows ? maybe something in those seed pots will flower this time Lyn Edwards Canberra approx zone 8 USDA From msittner@mcn.org Wed Feb 11 10:44:07 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040210182911.00cefae0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Favorite Yellow Bulbs Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:43:38 -0800 Dear All, I made a wiki page for the topic of the week on favorite yellow bulbs to link with the TOW page listing all the suggestions everyone made. It turned out to take longer than I expected. I hope that I didn't miss any. Sometimes people respond with a subject heading that doesn't fit their subject. Please let me know if there were any I missed I need to add and if there are any mistakes feel free to correct them. The genus most often mentioned for favorite yellow flowers was Narcissus following by Lilium. There was a tie for the plant suggested the most (five times): Eranthis hyemalis and Tulipa batalinii (which some consider a form of Tulipa linifolia) The second most mentioned favorite yellow flowered bulb was Sternbergia lutea. The following were mentioned by at least three different people: Arum creticum, Clivia miniata yellow forms, Crocus chrysanthus cultivars, Iris bucharica, Nothoscordum felipponei, Triteleia ixioides (various cultivars and species), and Vetltheimia bracteata yellows. To see a listing of all the plants mentioned in one place: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/FavoriteYellowBulbs All of you who sent in your choices who don't have a wiki page (and therefore are not listed in blue) are invited to make a wiki page with as little or much as you'd like to share about yourself. I added pictures of Bill Dijk's plants he has created and mentioned in his contribution to the Narcissus hybrid page. Nancy Wilson has mentioned some of these in her introduction to this week's topic of the week and Lyn talked about seeing them on AB Images so if you are curious to see what they look like you can go to: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusHybrids and look for Bill Dijk's name. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From khixson@nu-world.com Wed Feb 11 13:01:04 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20040211100052.00834638@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Crinum Pt Claire Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:00:52 -0800 Hi, Rand Slow getting everything answered, please forgive. Thank you for your comment on the hardiness of C. powellii-most definitive thing I've seen. I suspect there are many things about crinum hardiness that are simply not known, because no one has tried them and been able to give reports. again, thanks Ken From plants_man@bigpond.com Wed Feb 11 15:21:15 2004 Message-Id: <00d801c3f0dd$81c2c5d0$51fa8690@userbwbb7lkmiq> From: "Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan" Subject: Searching for a list of Amaryllidaceae plants Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:27:43 +1100 Greetings All, I hope you are well and happy on this fine day :-) I am looking for a list of Amaryllidaceae genus and species? Can anyone help me? Best wishes, Dash. Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan, Mainly Amaryllids Garden,P O Box 173, Barnawartha,Victoria,3688, Australia. +61 02 60267377, Visit my web site @ http://www.mainlyamaryllidsgarden.com Now with Online Shopping Cart & Payment Method ------------------------------------------------- Email the Australian Bulb Association at: support@ausbulbs.org ABA Web Sites: http://www.ausbulbs.org Checkout the bulb images at http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/ From plants_man@bigpond.com Wed Feb 11 15:40:04 2004 Message-Id: <00f901c3f0e0$22ea0b10$51fa8690@userbwbb7lkmiq> From: "Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan" Subject: Calostemma purpurea White Form Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:46:33 +1100 Greetings All, I have this little treasure flowering today in the garden. First time bloom for me with for this one. It can also be found at the following link. http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/details.php?image_id=982 Have a great day, Dash. Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan, Mainly Amaryllids Garden,P O Box 173, Barnawartha,Victoria,3688, Australia. +61 02 60267377, Visit my web site @ http://www.mainlyamaryllidsgarden.com Now with Online Shopping Cart & Payment Method ------------------------------------------------- Email the Australian Bulb Association at: support@ausbulbs.org ABA Web Sites: http://www.ausbulbs.org Checkout the bulb images at http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/ From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Wed Feb 11 16:17:50 2004 Message-Id: <000401c3f0e3$a223bf40$2689eb50@TheAfricanGarden> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Searching for a list of Amaryllidaceae plants Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:11:32 -0000 > I am looking for a list of Amaryllidaceae genus and species? > > Can anyone help me? Dash, Kew have a list of genera see link http://www.kew.org/cgi-bin/web.dbs/genlist.pl?AMARYLLIDACEAE What you'll have to do though is run through each genera using Kew's Epic database. http://www.kew.org/searchepic/searchpage.do Best Wishes, Dave (Plymouth, UK) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.577 / Virus Database: 366 - Release Date: 03/02/04 From hamish.sloan@virgin.net Fri Feb 13 15:57:57 2004 Message-Id: <007d01c3f274$04d434d0$04070cc3@Douglasdale> From: "Hamish Sloan" Subject: Tecophilea seed Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:08:03 -0000 Dear Lee, Mary Sue, Diane, Bill, Thanks for your hints on germination of this one. Several people have extolled the PBX seed offerings and I can only add that my experience in my first year has been great. All the seeds I have had have given over 50% germination, and often 90 to 100%, except the T.c. referred to and the Crinum americanum which was mentioned as another possibly long wait in the list recently. Keep 'em rolling in please!! Some of my Clivia miniata are just throwing the first flowers. Still in the cool house, heater set to "frost-free" only, so that the scapes get a chance to elongate above the foliage. I have noticed before that there are a few of my hybrids (these are just from the usual range of orange shades) that always come into flower well ahead of the rest. I must remember to note dates more carefully and see if there are persistent late ones too. Mary Sue, I find hard to understand why Veltheimia not germinating well. Try the wet paper towel method. As soon as the radical is about the same length as the seed diameter, I pot on in 2.5" pots in what is my standard nerine compost, putting the germinated seed about 0.5" down. Then kept in my warm house, not less than 55F. Although I've lost a few plants using this technique, e.g., one out of the 10 Clvia nobilis I mentioned, at this potting on stage, I've not lost any of the germinated Veltheimia seeds at this later stage. Incidentally, with some of the C. nobilis, the seed shrivelled at what seemed to be an early stage of growth and I thought I was losing more, but I found that the plants had developed a "root" that was the same diameter as the seed started at (about 3mm - it's easier to type than the imperial measure this time - while I think in metric for my science, I usually flip back to imperial in the garden!) and a full inch long before any attempt at a green leaf shows above soil level. Note how my plants suffer from what I call that dread disease of Pulloveria woollyitis - there is this appropriately dressed fellow who keeps on poking around below soil level! I've not checked out C. miniata in this respect. Many thanks your help, Regards Hamish Wettish Zone 9 in central south England - we have not been so cold this winter as the Crinum x powellii has not been cut down to the ground as it usually is. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Sue Ittner" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 1:19 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Tecophilea seed > Bill Dijk was selling seed of Tecophilaea when he was in Pasadena at the > IBS Symposium in May 2002. Even though I had yet to get any of the seeds I > had germinated from him before to bloom I wanted to try more so bought some > of all three he was selling. I planted them in October 2002 and they > germinated in great numbers in late December and January about the time > plants show up every year naturally where I live. They have come back > strongly and maybe a few more have germinated this year as well. This is > the second year I have had a Tecophilaea bloom from my original sowing. My > first seeds were sown in December 1999, again from Bill. They didn't > germinate until late March and more germinated the following January. > Perhaps it just takes awhile from when you start them before they come up, > but starting early as Lee suggested means they come up when their normal > cycle should be. From lynelda@netspeed.com.au Wed Feb 11 18:05:13 2004 Message-Id: From: "Lyn Edwards" Subject: TOW The smaller narcissus Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:05:13 +1100 I don't know what I was thinking when I called Narcissus Little Missus a triandrus cultivar, this is actually a N.fernandesii x N.cyclamineus selection,oops, Lyn Edwards From boutin@goldrush.com Wed Feb 11 21:06:46 2004 Message-Id: <003e01c3f105$af36cac0$6b3d7143@boutin> From: "boutin" Subject: self fertility in Ledebouria Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:14:09 -0800 Hello to all: New plants of Ledebouria galpinii are in bud here in the windowsill, but this is the first year so I can't tell you if this lovely species is self fertile. I can tell you that some clones of L. socialis are self fertile and produce variable seedlings, while other clones are at least self sterile under my conditions as windowsill plants, even with hand pollination. The self fertile clone of L. socialis which I have had for several years is in bud now also and will have flowers until June. As I recall it is only in May and June that seed sets from my hand pollination. The seedlings from the self fertile clone of L. socialis are variable and I loose quite a few from unknown causes. My intention is to select for increased leaf patterning and coloring, increased floral color, and miniature or compact growth. So far I have one seedling with dark red-violet leaves and bulb scales and several seedlings which appear to be miniatures. Only one of these seedlings has so far flowered, and it had flowers paler than the parent clone, where most of the color comes from violet anther filaments. I plan to store some pollen this season, may have more to report later. As I understand it L. socialis, as Scilla socialis, was named, published, and illustrated first, then came the clone which was then thought a species, Scilla pauciflora, and then many many years later came the publication of the form with violet undersides to the leaves, Scilla violacea. The problem and delight of this species is that it has many variations in size, and leaf pattern in the green-leaved form and also many variants in the forms with violet tinted leaves. Unfortunately Venter's monograph on the Ledebouria of South Africa has not been published. Fred > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From rlopez@benderlaw.com Wed Feb 11 23:45:20 2004 Message-Id: <000201c3f122$f2b18c50$0900a8c0@dell8200> From: "RJ Lopez" Subject: Starting winter growing seed-Tecophilaea cyanocrocus Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:44:44 -0500 Bill D. Hello from Raleigh, NC. I was in NZ in Dec and it's just lovely. What I noticed about the weather in your area is how mild it is, neither too hot nor too cold and mostly moist. Do you think that someone working in a place with wider temp/humidity variations can duplicate what you do in a controlled environment, like a glass case indoors or a cold frame in spring when weather is between 5 and 25C? Do you have pictures of your setup online? I'd love to take a peek...If you don't have a photo website you can try posting some to photobucket.com (it's free). Cheers, RJ >During that time I pay particular attention to watering, not to wet, and >always start them in semi-shaded, covered open benches, (Mary Sue knows what >I am talking about) in the coolest part of the nursery, to stop them damping >off. From msittner@mcn.org Thu Feb 12 00:20:50 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040211210915.018bf450@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Starting winter growing seed-Tecophilaea cyanocrocus Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:19:23 -0800 Dear All, I added Bill's picture of his thousands of seedlings to the wiki Tecophilaea page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tecophilaea I checked my pot today and it looks like I'm going to have more than one flower in bloom in a few days. Since I love blue flowers if you listen carefully you may hear me exclaiming since I've looked forward to this event for a long time. One thing really interests me. Lee Poulsen says that his plants always make a lot of offsets. Do they have to be a certain size to do this? Or do some do this and not others. The ones I have been (slowly) growing from seed have never made offsets. I've lost maybe one or two of the three varieties from my initial sowing, but mostly the number of corms has remained stable after the second year. As I said before in my experience some seeds come up the first year and some the second year even after spending a dry summer. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Thu Feb 12 01:50:49 2004 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Starting winter growing seed-Tecophilaea cyanocrocus Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:50:45 -0800 On Feb 11, 2004, at 9:19 PM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > One thing really interests me. Lee Poulsen says that his plants always > make a lot of offsets. Do they have to be a certain size to do this? > Or do some do this and not others. The ones I have been (slowly) > growing from seed have never made offsets. I've lost maybe one or two > of the three varieties from my initial sowing, but mostly the number > of corms has remained stable after the second year. As I said before > in my experience some seeds come up the first year and some the second > year even after spending a dry summer. > I think "a lot" is kind of relative. They don't increase anywhere as rapidly as Ipheion uniflorum does. What happens as far as I can see with my plants is that each bulb that is of flowering size, shortly after sending up a flower scape, starts growing small offset leaves right next to the main plant. It is usually two in number on opposite sides, sometimes three. If the plants grow well during the growing season, these offsets are often just big enough to be of flowering size the following season, and they do the same thing. So the bulbs increase in number roughly as a power of three. So at first there's not a lot of increase, but it starts to add up after just a few years. At the end of the first season, from one bulb to start with, there are three, at the end of the 2nd season there are 9 bulbs, at the end of the 3rd growing season there are 27 bulbs (roughly). So an initial investment of US$15-20 for one small bulb can result in a net worth of more than US$500 by the end of the third year (if you choose to think of it in those terms). BTW, my leitchlinii Tecophilaeas are all bursting into bloom this very week and are looking nice, esp. since we haven't been having much rain down here. The violaceas and the pure blue species pots always bloom a little later. I also managed to get one bulb of a new cultivar that is supposed to be a lavender version of the leitchlinii appearance. What I'd really like to get some day is one of those pure white forms that were observed in a field of wild growing blue ones that were just (re-)discovered recently. (Meaning they're not completely extinct in the wild.) I wonder how long it will take to get that form into cultivation. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From Zonneveld@rulbim.leidenuniv.nl Thu Feb 12 04:05:35 2004 Message-Id: <402B4EDB.568.33C29D@localhost> From: "zonneveld" Subject: intro Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:00:59 +0100 I am a retired geneticist At the moment I am busy measuring all kinds of plant their nuclear DNA content So far I have published these data and their consequences for all species of : Helleborus, Hosta, Galanthus , Agapanthus some Agaves and Aloes. In press are Clivia, Hydrangea and some more. So I am quite busy I ;;work"' 4 days a week ( persuing my hobby as my wife prefers to call it). I am busy now collecting one or two fresh leaves from all over the world from species of Nerine, Fritillaria, narcissi and a few others. I Hope some of you can contribute.e.g. Leucojum fabrei? Ben J.M.Zonneveld Institute of Biology,Leiden University, Clusius lab Wassenaarse weg 64, 2333 AL Leiden, The Netherlands Zonneveld@rulbim.Leidenuniv.NL Fax: +31-71-5274999. min temp -10C (15F) From msittner@mcn.org Thu Feb 12 10:42:19 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040212070521.018c9b30@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Smaller Narcissus - PBS and Alpine Topic of the Week Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:39:33 -0800 Dear All, I really enjoyed reading both introductions for this ten day topic. I expected there would be a lot of contributions since I know there are many members of this list who grow a lot of Narcissus. It is still early however. I was interested in reading about Narcissus rupicola in both introductions since that was a recent offering to the BX from Ernie O'Byrne. So this sentence caught my eye. >This is not particularly easy to grow in captivity, although, when happy, >it can be long lived for a species. And Nancy suggested growing this in a screen house. Since it is under cover of snow, will it be cold enough for me to be able to grow it? Or should I be sharing my BX seeds with someone else? Dave, could you or others tell us your secret of growing Narcissus from seed to flowering size? Nancy told us about the smaller Narcissus species that do well in her Northern California garden. Would some of the rest of you tell us what kinds of Narcissus you can grow in your different areas of the world? What does well for her has done well for me which is not surprising, but I wish I had known sooner what to try. I was surprised recently when the question of what bulbs to grow in California's central valley that no one suggested Narcissus. When I lived in Stockton they were one of the best performers in my garden, flowering well and increasing. I grew hybrids that I ordered from those shiny catalogs at that point in my life. As some one mentioned, Daffodil Hill in the California foothills always had an amazing display that people would drive great distances to see every spring. In my coastal garden most of the Narcissus I dug and brought with me have gone to heaven or where ever they go when they depart. I never knew about the Narcissus bulb fly before some of you told us about it so perhaps they got eaten instead. I always attributed it to the lack of sun. Speaking of the Narcissus bulb fly, I was asked to put information on the wiki about it to go with Arnold's pictures so I came up with information posted on this list mostly and Dave Karnstedt has improved what I started. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusBulbFly I've been able to keep going and blooming a number of bulbs in containers that Bill Dijk originally sent to the IBS BX and I turned around. The ones that have been successful are winter bloomers which is just fine with me since they don't have a lot of competition at that time in the garden and they bloom a long time and provide a lift between rainy periods. My records show Narcissus cantabricus blooming in October, what he called Narcissus bulbocodium monophyllus (which Dave tells me might best be called N. cantabricus instead since it has white flowers) blooming December and January, N. romieuxii blooming in December and January, and N. romieuxii var. zaianicus still blooming from a January start so I've had continuous bloom in one pot or the other for a long time. I've not tried any of these in the ground however. >They like my acid, clay soil and summer baking. I could provide acid sandy soil, but summer baking is questionable. What actually does summer baking mean? Obviously the ones I mentioned have done fine with being moved to the shade and kept dry in a pot during summer, but not certainly not hot. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From jimmckenney@starpower.net Thu Feb 12 17:52:48 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040212121757.0084b730@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Scoliopus: East Coast update Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:17:57 -0500 Dear fellow Scoliopodophiles: Good news on the Scoliopus front: S. bigelowii is alive and growing. S. hallii is still frozen (yet it's only a few inches away ) so I'm not sure what's going on there. I expected S. bigelowii to be the less hardy of the two, so the fact that it is growing is very good news to me. Both of these were wintered in an unheated frame which was frozen shut until yesterday. BTW, I'm not calling it bigelowii instead of bigelovii because I really know which is correct (correct this week, anyway); it's just a habit. Shakespeare is renown for his knowledge of garden plants; but I really wonder if he was all that interested. Otherwise, he would have written "first, kill all the botanists" instead of "first, kill all the lawyers"! We were pretty much frozen between the second week of January and late last week. Although we have not had any unusually low temperatures, the average temperatures have been 5-10 degrees F low. This week daytime temps have been above freezing daily, and snow/ice cover is melting/evaporating. And I'm able to get into the frames or see previously snow covered beds. Colchicum luteum foliage is poking up, too. All this talk about Tecophilaea is driving me crazy! You zone 8-ers are shameless! Jim McKenney jimmckenney2starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland zone 7 where Northern Cardinals, Titmice, Carolina Wrens, and Screech Owls are all singing. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Feb 12 15:44:22 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040212094810.00b9ca08@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Starting winter growing seed-Tecophilaea cyanocrocus Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:55:18 -0800 Mary Sue wrote, >One thing really interests me. Lee Poulsen says that his plants always make a lot of offsets. Do >they have to be a certain size to do this? Or do some do this and not others. I have not seen any offsets from corms smaller than flowering size. Mine make a maximum of 2 offsets per large corm per year, and some years not that much. They are growing much colder than Lee Poulsen's would be, indeed experiencing frost every winter even though in a covered frame. However, I have other plants from the same general area in the same frames, and they handle the conditions well too. When I first got this plant, bulbs purchased from England, I read that it preferred growing in the "open ground" to being in a pot, so I planted it directly into the plunge medium in the frames, where it did not do so well. Once I moved the corms into pots they did better. I think that statement in the older literature reflected being grown in pots in English alpine houses, where the plants may have been dried out too much in summer or subjected to fluctuations in moisture during the growing season, or perhaps didn't get enough light. They will not flower in my cool greenhouse even though in full light -- I suppose temperature fluctuation helps stimulate them too. I don't think they strictly need an arid summer dormancy, because I have read of them flourishing in the open garden in Ireland (although that may have been an exaggeration). I just noticed a lot of aphids on my Tecophilaeas and applied systemic insecticide, so check yours too. They seem particularly attractive to these pests. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Thu Feb 12 14:52:29 2004 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Proiphys amboinensis, U.S. source Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:52:27 -0800 Over on the Aussie bulb list they were discussing a genus of bulbs I had never heard of called Proiphys, previously called Eurycles. There's a good website about them at . Anyway the pictures that were being posted were just beautiful, so of course a rapid case of bulblust set in. Thanks to Google and eBay I found a place in the U.S. that has Proiphys amboinensis for sale at a really good price. Apparently they are getting them from a tissue culture place in Thailand. They have a number of other subtropical/tropical bulbous plants offered as well, also at really good prices (such as Caladiums and Curcumas). And they sell them on eBay as well. I just got the bulbs and their service and the quality of the bulbs has been excellent, so I thought I should inform the list in case anyone is interested. Here is their information if you're interested: Buried Treasures Chris Moore 4613 Harder Ave Sebring, FL 33875 chris@buried-treasure.net http://www.buried-treasure.net --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From DaveKarn@aol.com Thu Feb 12 18:13:51 2004 Message-Id: From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: REPLY2: [pbs] Smaller Narcissus - PBS and Alpine Topic of the Week Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:13:41 EST In a message dated 12-Feb-04 7:42:44 AM Pacific Standard Time, msittner@mcn.org writes: > Subj: Re: [pbs] Smaller Narcissus - PBS and Alpine Topic of the Week > Date: 12-Feb-04 7:42:44 AM Pacific Standard Time Mary Sue, et al ~ > I was interested in reading about Narcissus rupicola in both introductions > since that was a recent offering to the BX from Ernie O'Byrne. So this > sentence caught my eye. > > <<>This is not particularly easy to grow in captivity, although, when happy, > it can be long lived for a species.<>> > > And Nancy suggested growing this in a screen house. Since it is under cover > of snow, will it be cold enough for me to be able to grow it? Or should I be > sharing my BX seeds with someone else? > > Dave, could you or others tell us your secret of growing Narcissus from seed > to flowering size? I use one gallon, plastic nursery cans and a gritty mix made up of part of the indigenous soil, pumice and a gritty potting soil. I'll add more humus for N. cyclamineus. The pots are kept in the shade for the rest of summer and lightly watered, more heavily during the winter months (rainfall if set into the soil or from a hose if not submerged). It's always a pleasant surprise when around now the hair-like leaves emerge here in California from the pots of the more valuable ones that I bring back with me for the winter. Those leaves are so fine they look for all the world like green hair. As the days lengthen, the pots get increasing amounts of sun, although not full sun the first season. I place the pot inside the next size up to protect it from the sun's heat; there is usually a good inch all around the pot (for air movement) containing the seedlings. The crucial thing with daffodil seed is to plant it as soon as the pod ripens. I will get the cyclamineus seed into the soil within a few days of collecting the pods. This is the way 'ol Ma Nature does it and I figure she knows a good many things I don't. Emulating her has proven successful. Only one species demands the soil be quite damp and cool during dormancy and that is N. cyclamineus. If the soil dries out, the bulbs will die. For nearly all of the others, I simply set the pots under cover shaded from the sun and leave them until I start watering them in fall. If these are pots that I lift from the soil out in the open where they've spent the growing season, the soil is usually wet enough that it takes many weeks to dry out. If the species are grown in the field, I will often shade the soil to prevent it from heating in the dog days of summer. Thus, it remains dryish and not as warm as the soil outside of the protected area (a sheet of plywood set on bricks). For a number of years early on, I left those pots (unwatered) out in the midday sun to "bake" as was the "commonly accepted wisdom" for getting these things to bloom regularly. I don't recall they did as well as when there was a bit of moisture in the root zone. Narcissus will often keep a few of the previous season's roots alive during dormancy or the contractile roots that often sprout will also stay alive for a long time afterward. Jim Wells, a noted grower of species and miniatures (nearly everything in a greenhouse), used to unpot everything each year and lay the cleaned bulbs out on the surface of the dry soil and cover over the pots with several layers of newspaper until time to replant. He was quite successful with this method. He often complained that it was impossible to find the right kind of soil, i.e., the open fibrous "loam" that results when one piles up layers of sod for a year to decompose. He also dusted each bulb with a mixture of fungicide powders (e.g., Captan, Benlate, etc.) before replanting. It was his point of view that this was necessary to bring basal rot under control. As far as I know, all of his bulbs went through the dormant season dry. The weakest bulbs succumbed and were removed and the strongest survived to multiply. Like many growers, his desire was to develop seed grown strains of the species. The nearly insurmountable problem is always where and how to obtain most of them!! Even so noted a personage as this gentlemen was not always successful in his quest! The Barwick (bulbocodium x cantabricus) hybrids have always done better both under cover and in the open when planted rather deeper than normal and with dampness present in the root zone during "dormancy." > When I lived in Stockton daffodils were one of the best performers in my > garden, flowering > well and increasing. Sid DuBose, one of the more noted amateur daffodil hybridizers in this country, has lived in the Stockton area for many years. At one time, he had a considerable daffodil patch that resulted from his hybridizing efforts. > I always attributed lack of bloom to the lack of sun. Daffodils want full sun for best results but will grow with variable amounts of shade. Blooming falls off, of course, with decreasing sunlight. Often, one will get blooms only every other year. If a bulb has been parasitized by the large bulb fly, there will often sprout small pieces of the secondary meristem the following spring that will eventually bloom again. > My records show Narcissus cantabricus blooming in October, what he called > Narcissus > bulbocodium monophyllus (which Dave tells me might best be called N. > cantabricus instead since it has white flowers) blooming December and January, N. > romieuxii blooming in December and January, and N. romieuxii var. zaianicus > still blooming from a January start so I've had continuous bloom in one pot or > the other for a long time. I've not tried any of these in the ground, however. I know of no bulbocodium species that blooms in the fall. cantabricus, however, does, from late fall through the winter months. One of my favorites has always been zaianicus forma lutescens with its frilly coronas and evanescent lemon color. Because of the cool temps this time of the year, the flowers will last for weeks protected from the weather. One newer hybrid that I've grown for a couple of years now is Barwick's 'Gadget' (Inspector GADGET). Very floriferous and the most brilliant deep golden-yellow! Well worth seeking out as it has been a good doer and bloomer covering its leaves with a mass of flowers in late winter. Many (if not most) of these species really don't require weather that is that cold. Temps in the forties/high thirties for most of the winter months should suffice when the soil should be kept quite damp, particularly when the leaves appear. I have long been of the opinion that all of the miniature hybrids (and those species multiplied asexually) are infected with one, or more, of the viruses which infect the genus Narcissus and is the basic reason so many of them can be such indifferent growers for so many. The way out of this dilemma is to obtain several of the species and make your own hybrids. It's a very rewarding pastime and you'll be pleased with the results. Dave Karnstedt From Jamievande@freenet.de Fri Feb 13 08:49:22 2004 Message-Id: <016a01c3f238$917944c0$6802a8c0@Jamie2> From: "Jamie" Subject: Lycoris page found Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:52:06 +0100 http://imaginatorium.org/sano/higanb.htm on the above page I found some interesting photos and documentation on Lycoris radiata. Worth a visit. Jamie V. Cologne Germany Zone 8 From jshields104@insightbb.com Fri Feb 13 10:05:58 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040213095247.036c1300@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Lycoris page found Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:01:19 -0500 That is a nice page on Lycoris radiata. L. radiata radiata, the triploid form common in cultivation, is more or less hardy up here in Indiana. I have two little clumps of it that have been coming up for several years in a row, and one of them blooms each September as well. The diploid form, Lycoris radiata pumila, is not hardy here, as far as I can tell from trying it a couple of times. A couple hybrids of L. radiata pumila with one of the hardier species have survived here, but I don't recall any of them ever blooming. Their tendency to produce their leaves in autumn and to try to grow through the winter works against them. D.A. Cooke's page on the genus Lycoris at: http://members.ozemail.com.au/~davcooke/lycoris.htm is very well done. All the species are listed there. Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) At 02:52 PM 2/13/2004 +0100, you wrote: >http://imaginatorium.org/sano/higanb.htm > >on the above page I found some interesting photos and documentation on >Lycoris radiata. Worth a visit. > >Jamie V. ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From Jamievande@freenet.de Fri Feb 13 10:27:13 2004 Message-Id: <018201c3f246$3ca318a0$6802a8c0@Jamie2> From: "Jamie" Subject: Lycoris page found Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:29:56 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Re: [pbs] Lycoris page found L. radiata radiata, the triploid form common in cultivation, is more or less hardy up here in Indiana. > The diploid form, Lycoris radiata pumila, is not hardy here, as far as I can tell from trying it a couple of times Jim, I find it interesting that, once again, the high ploidies prove a bit hardier. It has been postulated that many of the northern forms of plants are polyploids and better suited to the extremes. Many of the Paeonia are tetraploid in the far north of their ranges. Maybe this is a method to create hardy bulbs? Has anyone tried colchicine treatment of scales, etc? I know they have suceeded with Lilium, but I do not know what method was used. This may all be way off base, but... Jamie V. Cologne From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Feb 13 10:54:10 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Lycoris/ Peony Ploidy Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:49:46 -0600 Dear Jamie; You wrote: "I find it interesting that, once again, the high ploidies prove a bit hardier." I don't think this would ever come to my mind that northern/ hardier species are triploid or tetraploid. In Lycoris, L. chinensis is much hardier than L aurea and both have 2n=16. L. squamigera, one of the hardiest with 3n=27 is a lot hardier than L. radiata radiata (3n = 33) and both are triploids. There are a few peony pairs such as P. obovata and P. japonica; and P. wittmanniana and P. mlokosewitschii. In both pairs the first is diploid (2n=10) and second tetraploid (2n = 20), but their distributions essentially overlap. Further there are both 2n=10 and 2n=20 wild collected Paeonia obovata. Paeonia anomala, the very hardiest of all peonies is a diploid, too (2n=10) Hardiness doesn't seem obvious as an attribute related to ploidy? Any other examples? Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From DaveKarn@aol.com Fri Feb 13 11:57:33 2004 Message-Id: <82.52bb251.2d5e5bed@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: REPLY: [pbs] Lycoris/ Peony Ploidy Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:57:17 EST In a message dated 13-Feb-04 7:54:35 AM Pacific Standard Time, jwaddick@kc.rr.com writes: > L. squamigera, one of the hardiest with 3n=27 The is frequently grown in and about the southernmost reaches of Imperial Russian Siberia -- aka Minnesota -- solidly UDSA Zone 4 and survives nicely, thank you! I grew it in both a suburban garden and in a farm field North of the Twin Cities where it had nothing to protect itself from the January deep freeze but a barbed wire fence. I cheated a bit, however, by letting the weed growth stay in the fall. This two feet (+/-) acted as a most efficient snow catch with the result that if there was any amount of snow, the frequent winter winds would just blow the loose snow into the catch where it piled up and insulated anything underneath. While I didn't have that in the former suburban garden, there was usually a winter mulch of several inches of straw to help stave off the worst of that lethal winter cold in those years where snow was scarce. I doubt that either of the people who bought our former properties have gone to any extra trouble with this Lycoris. It wouldn't surprise me one bit that this one grows and blooms there still in both places. Oh!, that it were only fertile!!! Dave Karnstedt Silverton, OR (absolutely tropical, compared to the weather I left behind in MN!!) From Jamievande@freenet.de Fri Feb 13 13:06:42 2004 Message-Id: <003a01c3f25c$82fe4200$6802a8c0@Jamie2> From: "Jamie" Subject: Lycoris/ Peony Ploidy Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:09:23 +0100 Jim, I'm running out the door, so I'll get back on this. I'll try to dig up an article I read on sub-arctic polyploids and high-altitude lobelias. Very interesting stuff, if I can only find it. Ciao, Jamie Cologne ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Waddick" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 4:49 PM Subject: [pbs] Lycoris/ Peony Ploidy > Dear Jamie; > You wrote: > "I find it interesting that, once again, the high ploidies prove a bit > hardier." > > I don't think this would ever come to my mind that northern/ > hardier species are triploid or tetraploid. > > In Lycoris, L. chinensis is much hardier than L aurea and > both have 2n=16. L. squamigera, one of the hardiest with 3n=27 is a > lot hardier than L. radiata radiata (3n = 33) and both are triploids. > > There are a few peony pairs such as P. obovata and P. > japonica; and P. wittmanniana and P. mlokosewitschii. In both pairs > the first is diploid (2n=10) and second tetraploid (2n = 20), but > their distributions essentially overlap. > > Further there are both 2n=10 and 2n=20 wild collected Paeonia obovata. > > Paeonia anomala, the very hardiest of all peonies is a > diploid, too (2n=10) > > Hardiness doesn't seem obvious as an attribute related to > ploidy? Any other examples? > > Jim W. > > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > E-fax 419-781-8594 > > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From Tessner-Timmel@t-online.de Fri Feb 13 13:47:51 2004 Message-Id: <1AriLS-2Eplwr0@fwd10.sul.t-online.com> From: Tessner-Timmel@t-online.de (karl-heinz tessner) Subject: Massonia Date: 13 Feb 2004 18:39 GMT Hello , first of all I like to introduce myself: I am 34 years and try to collect Massonia spec. which seems to be not so easy here in Germany. I am also collecting carnivorous plants, ant plants and terr. orchids. I have actually 2 Massonia in my "collcetion" Massonia pustulata (originally from the Bot. garden Bochum) and Massonia depressa (from Kaktenn Haage, Erfurt). I also have some selfmade seedlings from M. pustulata. Any help with Massonia would be very kind. Thanks Heinz -- Karl-Heinz Tessner Ulbarger Strasse 22 26629 Timmel Germany From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Fri Feb 13 14:00:12 2004 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Massonia Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:00:09 +0000 Hi Karl: A great source for Massonias and many other kinds of bulbs is Silverhill Seeds of South Africa. They do not destroy wild populations by selling endangered species. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/ From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Feb 13 14:41:08 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040213113512.00b93f28@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:40:12 -0800 I'm working on an article on bulbs small enough to be suitable for cultivation in troughs (the concrete-like basins often used for the cultivation of alpines and small xeric plants). The main criteria are : (1) short stems; (2) slow to moderate rate of increase; (3) attractive flowers; and (4), most important, low-lying or sparse foliage that will not look messy as the bulbs mature. There are many well-known bulbous genera that have little-known miniature members (e.g., Colchicum, Narcissus). Can forum members suggest some of their favorites that would be suitable? I particularly need information on genera I don't grow myself, such as Australian and South African ones. Thanks in advance, Jane McGary Editor, NARGS Rock Garden Quarterly From hkoopowi@uci.edu Fri Feb 13 17:18:06 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.2.20040213141445.01ec5bb8@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:16:00 -0800 Jane: How hardy should the bulbs be? Many of the South African bulbs are quite tender. I use some in my troughs but remember I am southern California. Harold At 11:40 AM 2/13/2004 -0800, you wrote: >I'm working on an article on bulbs small enough to be suitable for >cultivation in troughs (the concrete-like basins often used for the >cultivation of alpines and small xeric plants). The main criteria are : >(1) short stems; (2) slow to moderate rate of increase; (3) attractive >flowers; and (4), most important, low-lying or sparse foliage that will >not look messy as the bulbs mature. There are many well-known bulbous >genera that have little-known miniature members (e.g., Colchicum, >Narcissus). Can forum members suggest some of their favorites that would >be suitable? I particularly need information on genera I don't grow >myself, such as Australian and South African ones. > >Thanks in advance, >Jane McGary >Editor, NARGS Rock Garden Quarterly > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Feb 13 18:59:17 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Lycoris/ Peony Ploidy Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:59:11 -0800 > I'll try to dig up an >article I read on sub-arctic polyploids and high-altitude lobelias. This one? "The giant lobelias consist of a Chilean hexaploid group and a pantropical tetraploid group." from "Chloroplast Genome Rearrangements and the Evolution of Giant Lobelias from Herbaceous Ancestors " Eric B. Knox, * Stephen R. Downie,t and Jeffrey D. Palmer Mol. Biol. Evol. 10(2):414-430. 1993. Diane Whitehead From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Feb 13 20:53:37 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040213175220.00baaa38@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:53:32 -0800 Harold asked, >How hardy should the bulbs be? >Many of the South African bulbs are quite tender. I use some in my troughs >but remember I am southern California. They need not be very hardy. Our readers garden in all sorts of climates and need recommendations for warm as well as cold places. Also, many people bring their smaller troughs indoors for the winter. Thanks, Jane McGary From kfong@alumni.caltech.edu Sat Feb 14 00:22:42 2004 Message-Id: <200402140404.i1E44qs6014125@alumnus.caltech.edu> From: "Kirby W. Fong" Subject: Smaller Narcissus Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:04:56 -0800 (PST) One of the rarer small Narcissus that I've had a modicum of success with is N. atlanticus. One of the world's leading experts on Narcissus species, John Blanchard, gave a talk at the World Daffodil Convention in 2000 about how he searched for and found this species in the wild. I was able to purchase a bulb in 1995 from Michael Salmon in England. Steve Vinisky told me that John Blanchard told him he has to pollenate it to get seed to keep the species in cultivation as the bulb is not long lived. I guess I'm fortunate in that my original bulb has slowly increased, but just to be safe, I have on occasion selfed it to get seed. My seed did germinate, and I now have several small bulblets. My impression is that it grows very slowly from seed and will take years to reach flowering size. Offsets reach flowering size sooner. My original bulb did not bloom until 1998. I don't recall when the first offset bloomed, but it was probably 2000 or 2001. Why the fascination with this species? Most of the small species are yellow. N. atlanticus (along with N. dubius, N. watieri) is white. I have been told by two different people who are interested in miniature daffodil cultivars that the cross worth trying is N. atlanticus by N. watieri to achieve a more beautiful white miniature. Neither of these species is widely available, however, N. watieri is defintely easier to come by. I don't know whether the two will bloom at the same time, but I think I have enough of each that I may be able to do the cross this season. As for culture, I've grown N. atlanticus in eight inch diameter pots using about three quarters Super Soil and one quarter perlite. Super Soil is the brand name of a sterilized, soilless potting mix. Most miniatures and species I repot every two or three years, but I repot N. atlanticus every year because I want to see how the bulbs are increasing. The pot gets morning and midday sun with late afternoon shade. The pot is stored in a covered patio during the summer and therefore stays dry. Because I live in a mild winter climate (Livermore, California), I put the pot outside in the winter without much danger of a bulb killing freeze. (The last killer freeze was in 1990.) I've been asked what the secret is to get N. atlanticus to bloom regularly. I didn't know there was supposed to be a secret. Maybe it's just happiest in a Mediterranean climate. I am inland from San Francisco Bay. Most winter nights do not freeze. When it does freeze, there may be a few nights during the winter when it goes down to 25 degrees Fahrenheit. Summer days often reach 90 degrees Fahrenheit and occasionally go above 100 though evenings usually go down to 60. Kirby Fong From paige@hillkeep.ca Sat Feb 14 02:17:40 2004 Message-Id: <01a501c3f2ca$ade22360$0e86fea9@m6u3j5> From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 23:17:58 -0800 Jane McGary asked about tiny bulbs for troughs. I don't know whether tiny non-bulbous geophytes fit Jane's order, but anyone who must cope with part-day shade might like to try Streptopus streptopoides and Polygonatum graminifolium. S. streptopoides is 2" tall, with small white bells in July that are followed by red berries. It grows at the edge of mountain conifer forests in the arc of Beringia from eastern Asia across to Alaska and down western North America as far as Washington and Idaho. I see it described as up to 20 cm (8") tall, but the plants I have seen -- all in southwestern British Columbia -- are much shorter. P. graminifolium is from the Himalaya and 2-4" tall. Tiny, scented pink bells amid grassy leaves are followed by deeper pink fruits. It is native to sunny alpine meadows that are wet in summer, but does well with us in dappled shade. Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca From jshields104@insightbb.com Sat Feb 14 08:54:54 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040214080856.02ab3f60@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 08:46:31 -0500 I can think of some small bulbs. Merendera sp. ought to be a good group to try, and Androcymbium too. How about Leucojum autumnalis? For really tender bulbs, the small Nerine might be interesting. I especially recommend Nerine filamentosa. Some of the smaller Cyrtanthus, perhaps, but also tender. My Cyrtanthus sanguineus stays small in a small pot but blooms. Jim Shields in central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From osthill@htc.net Sat Feb 14 10:21:24 2004 Message-Id: <402E3C3E.8070603@htc.net> From: Lisa and Alec Flaum Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:18:22 -0600 Dear Jane, How about Allium rubrovitattum? Mine are in the ground, but I plan to move one to a trough this year. Tiny and really pretty, 1 bulb puts out 4-5 burgundy drumsticks. Also Allium chamaemoly ssp littoralis, which I got from Monocot Nursery. Again, mine is in the rock garden, but it hugs the ground, blooms very late in the year(sometimes through the snow), stays fairly green through the winter and the developing seed pods are neat to look at. Not flashy, but anything that blooms at the end of November pretty much has the stage to itself. Lisa -- Lisa Flaum Waterloo, IL central USA clay soil, Hot humid summers (to 105F, 40C) generally dry, punctuated by gully washers Cold, wet, cloudy winters, little snow cover, intense freeze/thaw cycle (-10F, -25C) From msittner@mcn.org Sat Feb 14 11:23:43 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040214081101.018b4530@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Scoliopus biglovii Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 08:20:36 -0800 Dear All, Some time ago I think it was Diane Whitehead who told us about Ian Young's web page where he writes weekly updates about what is going on in his bulb houses complete with pictures. He is in Scotland and I really liked the site. I had meant to go there every week, but have gotten busy (surprise) and forgotten. But one of our new members jogged my memory and the latest has a stunning picture of Scoliopus biglovii which he is obviously growing to perfection. http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2004/110204/log.html There are also some gorgeous crocus and Narcissus (right on topic) images in this week's page. I decided to write him as one bulb enthusiast to another and see if he'd help me with my Scoliopus and he has responded to my delight. Since mine are all finally coming up and I haven't lost them I hope I can now get it right. As we have talked on this list numerous times, some things just don't want to be completely dry in dormancy, even when in this case they won't have any rain between May and September most years. Here's what he said: "We have grown Scoliopus biglovii since about 1987 when we received a small plant from a great old grower. All the plants that we now have been raised from our own collected seed from this original and subsequent seedlings. It takes us on average 4 years from seed to flowers - last years seed is just germinating now. The compost we use is a free draining loam based compost with some extra leaf litter to add humus. We grow the seedlings in deep polystyrene (Styrofoam) boxes as they like a deep root run. I get the feeling that you are getting them too hot and dry in the summer, they hate that. We keep them cool and moist in summer - this is not difficult as that is what a Scottish summer usually is. They can withstand long dry periods in the summer but it sets them back and they never seem to progress to flowering size. I think that you are going to have to water them through the summer and give them as much depth as you can as their roots will easily go down 50cms in search of moisture." Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Sat Feb 14 11:33:28 2004 Message-Id: <002a01c3f318$41786600$ebc779a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 08:33:14 -0800 Ipheion sellowianum, now called Nothoscordum felliponei (hope I spelled it right) has deep yellow scented crocus-like flowers and almost prostrate thready leaves. They are in bloom now. Leucojum roseum is very tiny and delightful with pink glistening flowers. This Leucojum is so small it has to be grown in a pot or trough. There are many oxalis from South Africa that do not increase rapidly - unfortunately I don't list them because of this! The many colors of O. obtusa would look wonderful in a trough, and could be planted in a pot or mesh bag for those who would worry about them increasing too much. Biarum davisii and B. marmarisense have tiny hooded inflorescenses that sit on the surface of the soil. The leaves are very attractive and also hug the soil surface. Ambrosina bassii has a slipper-like inflorescence and extremely attractive neat foliage. Allium falcifolium, A. cratericola and A. obtusum are all California native alliums that are very small in stature but with large attractive flowers and neat foliage. Brodiaea terrestris and B. minor are both ground-hugging brodiaeas with large attractive blue flowers. There are dwarf forms of many California natives, such as Fritillaria atropurpurea - I have one that grows only three inches with the normal large flower. Another is F. affinis var. tristulis, with stems only a few inches tall but large dark flowers. I also grow a dwarf form of Dichelostemma capitatum with two inch stems that would look wonderful in a trough. It does not offset. Diana Telos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane McGary" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 11:40 AM Subject: [pbs] Tiny bulbs > I'm working on an article on bulbs small enough to be suitable for > cultivation in troughs (the concrete-like basins often used for the > cultivation of alpines and small xeric plants). The main criteria are : (1) > short stems; (2) slow to moderate rate of increase; (3) attractive flowers; > and (4), most important, low-lying or sparse foliage that will not look > messy as the bulbs mature. There are many well-known bulbous genera that > have little-known miniature members (e.g., Colchicum, Narcissus). Can forum > members suggest some of their favorites that would be suitable? I > particularly need information on genera I don't grow myself, such as > Australian and South African ones. > > Thanks in advance, > Jane McGary > Editor, NARGS Rock Garden Quarterly > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Sat Feb 14 12:38:53 2004 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: Tiny Bulbs Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:37:52 -0800 In response to Jane McGary, Diana Chapman wrote: "Leucojum roseum is very tiny and delightful with pink glistening flowers. This Leucojum is so small it has to be grown in a pot or trough." I have a raised bed that is about 10 ft across, curcular, having a Dragon's Blood tree (huge succulent grown into a tree) in the center. I originally made this bed for hippeastrum bulbs and it is half or more very coarse cilica sand. There is no water beyond my hosing it when I think of it - which can't be more than 12 times a year. In desperation for fear of losing the bulbs in a pot amongst hundreds of pots, I put my L. roseum bulbs together in this bed. I am amazed when each year they come back and bloom. Surely they have foliage but if so it is so small and sparse and disappears so quickly I can't now recall seeing it. However; they bloom reliably every year around early December I think and the blooms come up with no visible foliage...which is just as well as the blooms are quite small on stiff upright stems with the approximate diameter of a darning needle. The are very cute and the stems are about 4-5 inches, hooked at the top like a shepherd's crook, with nodding pink bells. Perfect for a trough I'd say. I don't think they have increased but neither have they declined in numbers over the 3 or 4 years they have been in there now. One would need half a dozen planted perhaps an inch apart. Cathy Craig EA _________________________________________________________________ Let the advanced features & services of MSN Internet Software maximize your online time. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200363ave/direct/01/ From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Feb 14 21:49:39 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040214110601.00bac040@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:08:10 -0800 Jim SHields suggested for bulbs for a trough: >How about Leucojum autumnalis? L. autumnale (note spelling) is probably far too vigorous and leafy for this use. However, L. roseum would be appropriate (though tender). >For really tender bulbs, the small Nerine might be interesting. I >especially recommend Nerine filamentosa. Some of the smaller Cyrtanthus, >perhaps, but also tender. My Cyrtanthus sanguineus stays small in a small >pot but blooms. I can't imagine that there are any Nerine or Cyrtanthus that don't have large foliage. They would be handsome in a large planter, however. I don't grow them because they don't flower in this climate. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA >Jim Shields >in central Indiana > > >************************************************* >Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. >P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ >Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA >Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Feb 14 21:49:42 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040214111122.00bcfda8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:13:17 -0800 Lisa Flaum wrote, >How about Allium rubrovitattum? Mine are in the ground, but I plan to >move one to a >trough this year. Tiny and really pretty, 1 bulb puts out 4-5 burgundy >drumsticks. > >Also Allium chamaemoly ssp littoralis, which I got from Monocot Nursery. I feel that A. rubrovittatum is too tall and vigorous for a trough, but perhaps it would not be in Lisa's climate in the Midwest. I'd choose some of the really short-growing western American alliums such as A. siskiyouense or A. campanulatum, which produce only two leaves per bulb, I think. Jane Mcgary Northwestern Oregon, USA From jshields104@insightbb.com Sat Feb 14 22:10:07 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040214215826.033cea18@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:06:34 -0500 Jane, I don't "do" trough gardening, so maybe I don't understand what is needed for troughs. The leaves on Cyrtanthus sanguineus stay under about 12 inches tall for me, in a small pot. At 11:08 AM 2/14/2004 -0800, you wrote: >>For really tender bulbs, the small Nerine might be interesting. I >>especially recommend Nerine filamentosa. Some of the smaller Cyrtanthus, >>perhaps, but also tender. My Cyrtanthus sanguineus stays small in a >>small pot but blooms. > >I can't imagine that there are any Nerine or Cyrtanthus that don't have >large foliage. They would be handsome in a large planter, however. I don't >grow them because they don't flower in this climate. > >Jane McGary >Northwestern Oregon, USA You have to see and try to grow Nerine filamentosa in that case. Foliage is thread-like, up to 6 inches high. Summer growing, winter semi-dormant, neat little plant and flower that blooms in late summer or autumn. Tender here. See: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Bulbs/nerine-filifolia-profile.html and: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/amaryllids/nerine-b.html Also consider Nerine rehmannii (tiny bulb and plant, white flowered) Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Sun Feb 15 00:11:18 2004 Message-Id: <5B33A818-5F75-11D8-A02D-0003936313F6@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 21:11:05 -0800 On Feb 13, 2004, at 11:40 AM, Jane McGary wrote: > I'm working on an article on bulbs small enough to be suitable for > cultivation in troughs ... Jane, Would Tecophilaeas fulfill the requirements? I don't know what trough cultivation is, but a 1 gal. pot with 8-10 bulbs of Teco. is absolutely amazing in bloom and the leaves are short and low-lying. T. violiflora (sp?) are even smaller, but so is the flower and it's not all that spectacular compared to its cousin species. The thought occurred to me that a trough covered with clumps of the pure blue T. cyanocrocus interspersed with clumps of a miniature yellow Narcissus all in full bloom would be a truly amazing sight. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From samclan@redshift.com Sun Feb 15 01:26:24 2004 Message-Id: <402F116D.5080408@redshift.com> From: Shirley Meneice Subject: Eucomis propagation Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:27:57 -0800 What a fun thought! Hope someone with Eucomis tries it and reports on it. Shirley Meneice Angelo Porcelli wrote: > Greetings All, > > I was wondering if the leaves on the top of the Eucomis flowers could be used to make leaf cuttings? > It would be curious, as pineapples can be started from the top of the fruits (who hasn't done this at least one time in his gardener's life??), if this worked for pineapple lilies ! > > best wishes > Angelo > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > . > From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Sun Feb 15 07:45:53 2004 Message-Id: <000c01c3f3c1$a4638890$6600a8c0@Hymenocallis> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 07:45:50 -0500 There are several small, blue-flowered Griffinias and even Griffiniopsis blumenavia (Hippeatrum/Amaryllis blumenavium). Both these are tender and need at least 75% shade. Also, I have Cyrtanthus hybrids (ex Greg Petit) that flower all winter long and is under 12 inches tall which would do well in a trough. Kevin Preuss www.Amaryllis-Plus.com From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Sun Feb 15 07:46:31 2004 Message-Id: <156.2dad7a62.2d60c424@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 07:46:28 EST In a message dated 2/13/2004 2:41:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, janemcgary@earthlink.net writes: >Can forum >members suggest some of their favorites that would be suitable? I >particularly need information on genera I don't grow myself, such as >Australian and South African ones. There are the smaller Romulea that would be suitable for use in a trough, perhaps R. minutiflora, setifolia or the tortuosas. Syringodea longituba might also be appropriate. Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Sun Feb 15 09:12:22 2004 Message-Id: <146.2204c131.2d60d842@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Scadoxus membranaceus Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:12:18 EST I sowed Scadoxus membranaceus in January of 2003 and they are only now sending out a first leaf. They spent the entire first year with only a root/radicle. Is this normal? It is in the Trilliaceae. Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sun Feb 15 09:49:27 2004 Message-Id: From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Simply Indigenous, Price List Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:49:19 EST Hi, I have received a new price list (mid-Feb, 2004) for bulbs from Simply Indigenous, a South African nursery. They accept credit cards and have some interesting offerings. Their minimum retail order for export is $100.00 (US dollars). They offer some grass aloes, which I grow like summer bulbs because they are deciduous in winter. Bulb List http://members.aol.com/jshaw1953/BulbExports.doc Aloe list http://members.aol.com/jshaw1953/AloeExports.doc Web Site http://www.simplyindigenous.co.za/pages/home.htm Cordially, Joe (zone 9, wet and cool this past 2 weeks) From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun Feb 15 10:32:01 2004 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Scadoxus membranaceus Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:31:59 +0000 Hi Mark: Yes, it takes time to first, produce a bulb, second a leaf. It is a subtropical member of the AMARYLLIDACEAE. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.latam.msn.com/ From khixson@nu-world.com Sun Feb 15 12:57:17 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20040215095706.0083d458@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:57:06 -0800 Hi, All: (1) short stems; (2) slow to moderate rate of increase; (3) attractive flowers; (4), most important, low-lying or sparse foliage that will not look messy as the bulbs mature. I've been pondering this topic for a while, and am not sure I have quite grasped what is being asked. Normally I would start the other way around, meaning if I have a trough, will it have a grit topping/or bark mulch, will it represent some kind of landscape or should it be in glorious flower for a certain period, will it be summer dormant or in flower for a long period of time, will it have winter protection from frost or rain, or won't it, etc. I am assuming this is to be a master list of small (tiny?) bulbs for various uses, and hardy for me with minimal care. If I were to plant a trough, some of the smaller bulbs I'd consider would include: Olysinum (Sisyrinchium) douglasii--especially some of the color varients now becoming available. (sources??) Sisyrinchium macounii album--the nomenclature on this has probably changed, but if there is room for a plant as large as 6-8 inches tall, this is amiable and nice. White is always a good color. Other Sisyrinchium-many are herbaceous perennials, but are petite, and have small scale flowers for a long period. Blue, yellow, white, or? Some of the long season bloomers may set enough seed to be weedy, but we know how to remove weeds. Allium-Ha, bet you can't stop with just one. Choose for foliage interest as well as flowers, to extend the period of interest. A late summer or fall bloomer would be nice to extend the season. Brodia-second Diana's suggestions. I'd add Brodia coronaria. As it grows in my pasture, this is under 6", and is worthwhile because it flowers (blue of course) about the first of July when not a lot is going on. My plants may be depauperate/smaller than some forms. Calochortus--some of the small cat's ears. These deserve close-up inspection to be appreciated. In the garden they really can't be seen. Rather large leaves, but may be glaucous enough to be interesting. Delphineum menziesii-Mary Sue will forgive me for this one, I hope. This gives flowers for a fairly long period, has nice foliage which is different from many bulbous plants, and in the wild as I've seen it, can be under half an inch tall, if there are not too many flowers sticking up. There are other Delphineum, many not geophytes, but small and worthwhile. Dicentra--The small ones I've grown aren't worth growing for flowers, because they go so quickly, but the foliage makes them almost worth growing-- if only it lasted a little longer. I'd look for more small Dicentras. Narcissus-many worthwhile small/tiny ones. I'd probably try N. asturiensis, formerly N. minimus and forever Minimouse. Earlier to start flowering than many narcissus, this is worthwhile as a shock plant--the flower is bigger than the plant, if such a thing is possible. There are many small jonquils, most would be nice. Sun Disc is later than some, and worthwhile for that reason. There are many bulbocodiums, the foliage is small, and in some varieties is also flat on the soil surface, so is not obtrusive. Flowers are usually relatively large, but smaller flowers can be found. I'd like to suggest an anemonee, but haven't grown any small ones. Same with Oxalis. O. adenophylla adds foliage interest when not in flower, but may need winter protection in a trough. Cyclamen get too big after awhile, but might do for a few years, especially as foliage plants. Geranium orientale-tibeticum is probably too big, but there are other tuberous geraniums, some of which are small. I don't grow any, but I'd like to learn about them. Some species gladiolus are very small, almost like crocus, and with reed like foliage. Same with species Freesia, Ixia, etc. I could go on, but it is someone else's turn. Ken Z7 western O-regon From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Feb 15 13:55:23 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040215104949.01f90378@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:52:38 -0800 Thanks to everyone who is replying on this. I'm getting terrific data for the article. And I apologize for forgetting that there are some tiny Nerine species; I used to grow one of them (N. filifolia). Ken Hixson asked, Normally I would start the other way >around, meaning if I have a trough, will it have a grit topping/or bark mulch, >will it represent some kind of landscape or should it be in glorious flower >for a certain period, will it be summer dormant or in flower for a long period >of time, will it have winter protection from frost or rain, or won't it, etc. I was actually envisioning the bulbs as one component of a trough landscape with other types of plants in it that would provide year-round interest, such as dwarf conifers, Daphne petraea and other small species, tiny Rhododendron species, saxifrages, and so on. The bulbs would be a seasonal accent, which is why I specified that their foliage not overwhelm the plants around them. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Feb 15 13:55:24 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040215105251.01fda400@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Bulb session in Eugene Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:55:14 -0800 For those of you who plan attend the NARGS Winter Study Weekend in Eugene, Oregon, the first weekend in March, and also for people in the area who would like to meet with other bulb enthusiasts, we have scheduled a "parasession" on bulbs on Friday, March 5, at 4 p.m. It will be in one of the small meeting rooms at the Valley River Inn, which is near the I-5 freeway in Eugene, and information on exact site will be posted at the registration table. Refreshments and displays will be provided, and attendees are welcome to contribute to either or both. Jane McGary From plants_man@bigpond.com Sun Feb 15 16:57:48 2004 Message-Id: <01d001c3f40f$ac0436f0$d8e736cb@userbwbb7lkmiq> From: "Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan" Subject: Thank you to One and All. Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 08:49:46 +1100 Greetings, I would like to express my sincere thanks to those that helped with the Amaryllidaceae links and information. An excellent response was given me and I thank you all from my heart. Your generosity astounds me! Thank you. Have a great day, Dash. Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan, Mainly Amaryllids Garden,P O Box 173, Barnawartha,Victoria,3688, Australia. +61 02 60267377, Visit my web site @ http://www.mainlyamaryllidsgarden.com Now with Online Shopping Cart & Payment Method ------------------------------------------------- Email the Australian Bulb Association at: support@ausbulbs.org ABA Web Sites: http://www.ausbulbs.org Checkout the bulb images at http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/ From eagle85@flash.net Sun Feb 15 17:16:34 2004 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Scadoxus membranaceus Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:16:38 -0800 > From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com > Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society > Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:12:18 EST > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [pbs] Scadoxus membranaceus > > I sowed Scadoxus membranaceus in January of 2003 and they are only now > sending out a first leaf. They spent the entire first year with only a > root/radicle. > Is this normal? It is in the Trilliaceae. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Mark, This is not unusual for S. membranaceus. I have raised quite a few of them. Doug From hkoopowi@uci.edu Sun Feb 15 18:50:53 2004 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20040215154737.0294f768@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Warning -- Simply Indigenous, Price List Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:50:45 -0800 A very interesting listing. But remember Aloes are appendix II plants in CITES and will need to be accompanied by a CITES certificate. Also Gladiolus corms from Africa are forbidden entry into the USA as there is an indigenous fungus problem in Africa that we dont have here. If you want african gladiolus species you should buy seeds. Harold At 09:49 AM 2/15/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, > >I have received a new price list (mid-Feb, 2004) for bulbs from Simply >Indigenous, a South African nursery. They accept credit cards and have some >interesting offerings. Their minimum retail order for export is $100.00 (US >dollars). They offer some grass aloes, which I grow like summer bulbs >because they >are deciduous in winter. > > >Bulb List >http://members.aol.com/jshaw1953/BulbExports.doc > >Aloe list >http://members.aol.com/jshaw1953/AloeExports.doc > > >Web Site >http://www.simplyindigenous.co.za/pages/home.htm > > >Cordially, > >Joe (zone 9, wet and cool this past 2 weeks) >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Prof. Harold Koopowitz Ecology and Evolutionary Biology University of California, Irvine, CA 92697 From Antennaria@aol.com Sun Feb 15 21:21:52 2004 Message-Id: <199.25e2aeb0.2d61833a@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 21:21:46 EST Jane McGary janemcgary@earthlink.net wrote: >I feel that A. rubrovittatum is too tall and >vigorous for a trough, but perhaps it would >not be in Lisa's climate in the Midwest. >I'd choose some of the really short-growing >western American alliums such as A. >siskiyouense or A. campanulatum, which >produce only two leaves per bulb, I think. When I lived in the Seattle Washingtom area, I grew two forms of Allium rubrovittatum. One grew a mere 2" tall in flower (from Kew), and was surely among the smallest Allium species I have ever grown. Another form grew 6-8" tall, and while a somewhat taller, it was still so slim and demure, that it too would be a good candidate for a trough. None of these, including your form Jane, seem hardy enough to be grown outside here in northern New England, which is a shame. Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From Zonneveld@rulbim.leidenuniv.nl Mon Feb 16 04:21:54 2004 Message-Id: <403098A5.19761.2EE756@localhost> From: "zonneveld" Subject: ploidy in the north Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:17:09 +0100 I think too that in general plants in the north tend to have more polyploids Saying so one compares genera not individual species. This may have to do with the fact that in warmer climates there is more compitition for fast grow and any surplus DNA is a burden then On the contrary in the north plants often divide their time in a period with increasing celle numbers and a period with increae in size of these cells. Most big narcissi, tulips Hippeastrums are tetraploids I suppose they were not only chosen for the increased flower size but also for increases in hardiness, This latter not compared to other species but compared with their diploid parent. Ben J.M.Zonneveld Institute of Biology,Leiden University, Clusius lab Wassenaarse weg 64, 2333 AL Leiden, The Netherlands Zonneveld@rulbim.Leidenuniv.NL Fax: +31-71-5274999. min temp -10C (15F) From Bonsaigai37@aol.com Mon Feb 16 08:11:57 2004 Message-Id: <1ed.192ec792.2d621b96@aol.com> From: Bonsaigai37@aol.com Subject: Eucomis vandermervei forms Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 08:11:50 EST Hello All, I've been looking through files and notes on E. vandermervei and seem to think there are two rather distinct forms. One form has an inflorescence with tightly held leaflets, smaller and more compact, not exceeding the diameter of the inflorescence. The other form has larger and fewer leaflets that are held over the inflorescence in an umbrella like manner. Has anyone noted this or other differences in this species? Could this be a difference induced by cultivation? I have the first form. Would anyone like to trade a plant of the second form? Be Well, Michael Loos From jshields104@insightbb.com Mon Feb 16 10:39:55 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040216103121.00b126d8@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Sprekelia species Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:39:01 -0500 Dear all, I am looking for bulbs or seeds of the various Sprekelia "species" for breeding experiments. these are things I sdtarted 25 years ago and lost. I want to rebuild my Sprekelia germplasm collection and do some new breeding. I have S. formosissima 'Orient Red' (a.k.a. 'Harrison's Orientred') and a very few offsets of S. howardii as well as Haemanthus, Scadoxus, Hippeastrum, Crinum, Nerine, etc. species to offer in trade. Or I will purchase. I am looking especially for bulbs of Sprekelia 'Peru' , S. glauca, and some of the early Thad Howard hybrids or selections from S. formosissima. Wild collected seeds from Sprekelia formosissima would be of great interest also. Please contact me off-list at or telephone 317-896-3925 (home). Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jimmckenney@starpower.net Mon Feb 16 12:07:07 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040216120645.00853e00@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 12:06:45 -0500 No one has mentioned Rhodohypoxis. Not only are they small, but they are increasingly available (mine came from the local Safeway grocery store). Snobs will probably say they are too common and look too much like Impatiens when in bloom. But their high bloom-to-foliage ratio makes them ideal trough plants in my view (although I'm not growing them that way myself). Several Oxalis come to mind, too, especially little O. depressa (O. inops). Here this is a tidy grower and not invasive (I wish it were more so). The Oxalis is not hardy here, and the Rhodohypoxis is a borderline plant. For something very different, and for a "bog trough", try little Habenaria radiata. (You may see it listed as Platanthera or Pecteilis or Pectelis). This is a very charming little bog orchid which gets to be about eight inches or so high with one or two nickel-sized brilliant white flowers which in silhouette suggest a flying bird. It blooms here in August. This one grows from a fuzzy lemon-seed-sized storage structure and is reputed to prefer dry winter conditions. It has grown outside here for years in my bog trays (where it is wet all year). Years ago I had a group of these in a low broad pot surfaced with moss and bottle gentians: very elegant! I've got some seedlings of Gentiana autumnalis coming along, and hope to combine the two soon. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland zone 7 where the first groups of male robins are passing through and red-bellied woodpeckers and barred owls have joined the chorus: bird song is really picking up now! From Antennaria@aol.com Mon Feb 16 12:27:03 2004 Message-Id: <158.2daf6b9f.2d625754@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 12:26:44 EST There are lots of dwarf Allium that are suitable for trough culture. In fact, there are a number of photos of Alliums in one of my troughs posted to the PBS wiki. Here are some links: Allium albidum ssp. caucasicum is a species from Turkey that keeps is green strap leaves throughout the growing season, and little clusters of white flowers in July-August. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Rhizomatous%20onions The Japanese Allium togasii, and the Mongolian Allium tuvinicum are small enough to consider in a trough... both species shown on the aforementioned wiki page. Allium flavum ssp. tauricum and many allied species, present an assortment of floriferous dwarf onions that look good in a trough. Besides nearly prostrate forms of flavum ssp. tauricum, there is kurtzianum, sibthorpianum, and smaller forms of paniculatum, to name but a few. To see some of these, go to: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Allium%20flavum%20%26%20kin By far one of the most delightful small onions in a trough, is the Turkish Allium sibthorpianum. Go to the page listed in the previous URL to see some good photos of this species growing in a trough. I added a couple new photos, including the "Alliums_in_trough" photo in the link below. It shows a trough with Allium sibthorpianum, and a couple of miniature forms of Allium flavum ssp. tauricum in pastel white tones. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Allium/Alliums_in_trough.jpg Another species that I grow in a trough, because it is too easily swamped by other plants in the open garden, is Allium moschatum, with short, firm, thread-thin leaves and small white or pinkish flowers on wiry 4-5" stems, flowering in July-August. It is growing in the same trough as some of my other alliums. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Misc%20Onions There are many American species of Allium that are really tiny and are best grown in containers or troughs, but I'll only mention one here. Allium perdulce, from the central and southwestern plains states, is so slow growing that it is best maintained in pots or containers. The rich pink flowers on 4-5" stems are powerfully perfumed like sweet carnations, so planting them in a trough will make it easier to enjoy the enticing fragrance. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/American%20onions Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From msittner@mcn.org Mon Feb 16 13:04:17 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040216095120.01893f00@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:03:34 -0800 Dear Trough Growers, I don't have a trough and haven't tried to grow anything in one. After hearing a woman with hot summers say she had to water hers every day, sometimes more often I lost interest. Perhaps this is a dumb question and I expect I'll be flooded with references to reading about troughs. If you were picking tiny bulbs to go in a trough for year round interest, wouldn't they have to be bulbs or corms that would be happy with wet conditions both in winter and summer? I know on this list a lot of people have reported successes with bulbs that are supposed to be kept dry during dormancy and weren't. Presumably the other plant roots would be sucking up the moisture too and I assume the mix would have a lot of air in it as well. Normally a lot of California bulbs are recommended for a dry dormancy. And I lost all the rhodohypoxis I left out to be rained on in winter, but they come back fine kept semi-dry. Delphinium nudicaule and Delphinum luteum both come back in containers with other plants watered year round however, but I suppose their leaves might be a bit robust and their tendency to reseed could be a problem too. Mary Sue From Jamievande@freenet.de Mon Feb 16 13:18:46 2004 Message-Id: <014a01c3f4b9$b93a2af0$6402a8c0@Jamie2> From: "Jamie" Subject: Lycoris/ Peony Ploidy Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:21:40 +0100 Diane, Jim, et al, this is the very article I still cannot find! (I may have read it in the doctors office! Diane, you are amazing!) There was, also, an article in The Garden which lightly touched on non-diploid ploidies, which were often found in extreme climates. The gist of the theory was, that during the various ice ages, tetraploids were often the survivours and latter repopulated their earlier range. Now, even I have a few questions, here, as this is very over simplified in my book, but, when one considers studies of tetraploids found inside of the arctic circle, as well as hexaploids and company found at high elevations, which are both postulated as being the product of increased radiation levels (over many generations) and a harsh environ, I was able to make the jump to tetraploids, as survivours, repopulating decimated diploid habitats after an ice age. Indeed, under the Paeonia, there are species that, other than their ploidy, are extremely similar. Again, we jump on the head of the pin and define species, but I still find this an interesting theory, which does have physical evidence in the form of unexpected ploidies. I suppose one could research it and find the required evidence to support either argument, at this point, but the arguments are interesting! I've always hoped someone would find tetraploid Hemerocallis in the northern most distribution, but apparently none until now have been recorded. Ciao, Jamie V. Cologne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Whitehead" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 12:59 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Lycoris/ Peony Ploidy > > I'll try to dig up an > >article I read on sub-arctic polyploids and high-altitude lobelias. > > This one? > > "The giant lobelias consist of a Chilean hexaploid group and a > pantropical tetraploid group." > > from > "Chloroplast Genome Rearrangements and the Evolution of > Giant Lobelias from Herbaceous Ancestors " > Eric B. Knox, * Stephen R. Downie,t and Jeffrey D. Palmer > Mol. Biol. Evol. 10(2):414-430. 1993. > > > Diane Whitehead > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From jimmckenney@starpower.net Mon Feb 16 13:48:24 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040216134811.0084fb10@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Fragrance in Allium Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 13:48:11 -0500 Mark McDonough mentioned fragrance for Allium perdulce. Mark, is Allium moschatum fragrant? The name suggests that it might be. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Feb 16 18:57:18 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040216111431.00baf170@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:18:56 -0800 Mary Sue wrote, >I don't have a trough and haven't tried to grow anything in one. After hearing a woman with hot summers say she had to water hers every day, sometimes more often I lost interest. ... If you were picking tiny bulbs to go in a trough for year round interest, wouldn't they have to be bulbs or corms that would be happy with wet conditions both in winter and summer? Reply: It would of course depend on what else you were growing in the trough, and how large it was. Larger, deeper troughs hold moisture longer, and you can of course manipulate the composition of the fill, or put them in partial shade so they don't dry out or heat up too fast. It seems to me that if you combine your bulbs with dwarf shrubs and perennials from the same type of climate and habitat, you could grow them together happily. For example, western American penstemons, eriogonums, and fritillarias; or Balkan daphnes, campanulas, and crocuses. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Mon Feb 16 15:13:50 2004 Message-Id: <40312B25.5CB55557@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Tiny Bulbs Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 12:42:13 -0800 Dear All You might be interested in the book Miniature Bulbs by Roy Genders, first published in the USA in 1963. The publisher is St. Martin's Press of New York. Cheers, John E. Bryan From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon Feb 16 15:47:42 2004 Message-Id: <003c01c3f4ce$1bd414f0$4c559851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:47:35 -0000 I would like to suggest Galanthus elwesii 'Ransom's Dwarf' if you can get hold of it. It is only 3 inches high. Mark N Ireland From osthill@htc.net Mon Feb 16 16:49:05 2004 Message-Id: <40313A14.6090401@htc.net> From: Lisa and Alec Flaum Subject: Tiny bulbs-A rubrovittatum Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:45:56 -0600 My A rubrovittatum, which came from Jane, flowers at about 4" (10cm). It is fairly dry in the summer-perhaps its stunted? Mark, it is growing outside in my rock garden, a southfacing clay slope, amended with chicken grit and horse manure. I plan to try some in a trough because they are easily overlooked in the garden. Lisa Antennaria@aol.com wrote: > > When I lived in the Seattle Washingtom area, I grew two forms of Allium > rubrovittatum. One grew a mere 2" tall in flower (from Kew), and was surely among > the smallest Allium species I have ever grown. Another form grew 6-8" tall, > and while a somewhat taller, it was still so slim and demure, that it too would > be a good candidate for a trough. None of these, including your form Jane, > seem hardy enough to be grown outside here in northern New England, which is a > shame. -- Lisa Flaum Waterloo, IL central USA clay soil, Hot humid summers (to 105F, 40C) generally dry, punctuated by gully washers Cold, wet, cloudy winters, little snow cover, intense freeze/thaw cycle (-10F, -25C) From lizwat@earthlink.net Mon Feb 16 17:04:07 2004 Message-Id: <40313E6F.2010102@earthlink.net> From: Liz Waterman Subject: Oxalis pes-caprae Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:04:31 -0800 From john@johnlonsdale.net Mon Feb 16 17:49:07 2004 Message-Id: <20040216224906.E07EC20099@happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: Edgewood Gardens web site updated Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:48:58 -0500 Hi, Please find below the list of plants included in the latest update of my website (http://www.edgewoodgardens.net). Snow patches still abound, with more on the way. Last night the temperature bottomed out at 6F, but spring is somewhere around the corner. There's lots of color in the greenhouses as the early spring crocuses and cyclamen get going. There are also a few garden shots, and some of hardy plants looking a bit worse for wear after the snow and ice. They are all OK, though and seem to build up happily regardless. Apologies for the cross-posting. Thanks, J. Aeoniopsis cabulica Aeoniopsis cabulica in mid-winter Allium sp. with moth Aquilegia barnebyi Aquilegia saximontana Arisaema kiusianum Arisaema sp. Arisaema thunbergii var. thunbergii Asarum sp. China (multiple) Bellevalia longipes BioComp BC5 and perlite compost 50-50 Cacti in mid-winter Calochortus bed in mid-winter Calochortus luteus JCA1.166.000 Calochortus sp. Calochortus sp. Indian Valley Ca. Colchicum boissieri Colchicum cupanii ssp. pulverulentum PB324 Colchicum x Janis (kesselringii x luteum) Crocus abantensis Crocus alatavicus Crocus aleppicus S9914 Wadi Dawa Jordan Crocus biflorus aff. artvinensis JCA341.105 Crocus biflorus ssp. alexandri HS ex Drama Greece Crocus biflorus ssp. biflorus MO9528 Bari Italy Crocus biflorus ssp. isauricus Crocus biflorus ssp. melantherus KKK3 Crocus biflorus ssp. pseudonubigena KPPZ90-108 Crocus biflorus ssp. pulchricolor Crocus boryi CEH582 Crocus boryi S0249 Mt. Menikion Crocus cancellatus ssp. cancellatus Icel Crocus 'carpetanus' JCA0.342.609 Crocus caspius PF5035-6 Crocus chrysanthus aff. var. brunellus S0237 Crocus chrysanthus S0239 Paranesti-Dipotama Crocus chrysanthus Sunspot Crocus corsicus albus Crocus danfordiae Crocus fleischeri Crocus gargaricus ssp. gargaricus Crocus goulimyi in mid-winter Crocus hermoneus Crocus kerndorffiorum Crocus kotschyanus ssp. kotschyanus CMW2724 Crocus laevigatus HC4774 Crocus laevigatus P9420 Crocus laevigatus SBL338 Pindus Crocus leichtlinii KPPZ90148 Crocus niveus in mid-winter Crocus ochroleucus JCA0.349.200 Crocus oreocreticus ex JMcG Crocus oreocreticus PB137 Crocus pallasii ssp. dispathaceus JKP98-122 Crocus pallasii ssp. pallasii PB414 Mt. Lazarus Samos Crocus paschei HKEP9034 Crocus pestalozzae var. caeruleus Crocus pulchellus Crocus pulchellus PB337 Evvia Crocus reticulatus hybrid ex. GBG Crocus robertianus JCA0.351.00 Crocus serotinus ssp. clusii Portugal Crocus sieberi ssp. nivalis AE98-24 Langarda Pass Crocus sieberi ssp. sieberi MH99 Mt. Menadous Crocus sp. JMcG Crocus speciosus Crocus veneris PB181 Paphos Crocus versicolor Cyclamen cilicium Cyclamen coum ssp. coum Cyclamen coum ssp. coum forma albissimum ex Hornig Cyclamen coum ssp. coum forma albissimum Golan Heights Cyclamen graecum roots Cyclamen graecum ssp. anatolicum ex. Rhodes Cyclamen graecum ssp. mindleri Cyclamen hederifolium seeds and seed pods Cyclamen hederifolium ssp. confusum Cyclamen intaminatum Cyclamen intaminatum and trochopteranthum seedlings Cyclamen intaminatum seedlings Cyclamen libanoticum Cyclamen pseudibericum Cyclamen pseudibericum forma roseum ex ACW664 Cyclamen purpurascens Cyclamen trochopteranthum Cyclamen trochopteranthum seedlings Daphne beds under snow Daphne diseases Daphne jasminea in mid-winter Daphne oleioides ssp. kurdica Dysosma veitchii Dysosma versipelle Epimedium ecalcaratum Cc970229 Epimedium wushanense Cc960060 Fall 2003 mulch pile Fritillaria davidii leaves Fritillaria davidii leaves in mid-winter Gazania sp. ex PK Gladiolus hysteranthus ssp. carmineus Ipheion Alberto Castillo in mid-winter Ipheion Rolf Fiedler in mid-winter Iris speculatrix Iris unguicularis Iris unguicularis in mid-winter Juno iris bulbs and roots Lewisia rediviva in mid-winter Lilium vollmeri Narcissus viridiflorus Oncocyclus irises in mid-winter Oxalis perdicaria Oxalis versicolor Paeonia lactiflora Raised beds in mid-winter Rhinopetalum stenantherum Scilla messeniaca MS38 Scilla puschkinioides ARJA9708 Sternbergia sicula ex Wallis Tecophilaea Craigton Cloud Trillium rhizome 'buds' Trillium seeds and seed pods Yucca harrimaniae in mid-winter Dr John T Lonsdale, 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Feb 16 19:17:58 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040216160530.01ce55f8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Tiny bulbs-A rubrovittatum Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:07:10 -0800 Lisa wrote: >My A rubrovittatum, which came from Jane, flowers at about 4" (10cm). >It is fairly dry in the summer-perhaps its stunted? > >it is growing outside in my rock garden It grows taller here (about 8 inches/20 cm) in the bulb frame. I don't think I have any outdoors but will put some out next summer. I also keep it dry in summer, no doubt drier than in Lisa's Midwest garden. Jane McGary From msittner@mcn.org Mon Feb 16 19:52:44 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040216165118.00b529a0@mail.mcn.org> From: Liz Waterman (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Oxalis pes-caprae Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:51:54 -0800 http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,82%257E1804%257E1941631,00.html From Jamievande@freenet.de Tue Feb 17 12:02:08 2004 Message-Id: <002401c3f578$2c191db0$6402a8c0@Jamie2> From: "Jamie" Subject: Ba-Ba-Ba..Babiana Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:04:57 +0100 Jamie Vande Cologne Germany Zone 8 There were there, in a basket, just staring up at me with a silly grin on their tunics, saying "Hallo,! Take us home!" I'm a sucker for cutsie corms, so I brough home 15! Babiana stricta, well, we will see about that part, I'm always suspect, especially from Holland! (do you know how badly they pay their packers?) Seriously, though, I was wondering if anyone has experience with these packaged goodies. They are certainly nice and firm, although offered out of season, and I plan to just pop them into one of my large terrace pots, maybe at the base of a wisteria standard. What think we, those more experienced than I? Am I better off trying them in their own terra-cotta? Any chance of them surviving a frost in Zone 8? Spring is raising it's lovely head and I have finally noted for sure, that one of my G. nivalis is definitely and consitently much larger than the wild form (cultivated clone is better). I collected this one bulb some three years ago in a cemetary, probably the best place to find interesting plants seeding about. It has subsequently increased and I currently have some 6-8 bulbs in a small clump and they are almost twice as large as the normal Galanthus nivalis. Same blooming period and do not look to be a hybrid, as the leaves, flowers and habit are in proportion to G. nivalis, just twice the size. Any comments from the peanut gallery? I am not a Galanthophile, just avid gardener, so I have little idea of what to note, other than the obvious. Input appreciated. Ciao.... From msittner@mcn.org Tue Feb 17 18:16:11 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040217133040.00a25af0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: South African Romuleas Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:14:37 -0800 Dear All, Before it started raining last Friday we had some lovely weather in northern California and I had time to admire some of my Romuleas that were blooming. Since then we have been having a lot of rain, heavy enough the last two days that roads are starting to flood. I've added some pictures of mine and Audrey Cain's to the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanRomuleas Last year I posted a lovely picture Bob took of Romulea komsbergensis from seed from Dirk Wallace. Lauw wrote that he thought the identification was wrong because Romulea komsbergensis usually has a brown center and in my plants this was reduced to more of a brown line. This year I have poured over my books (I have three publications just for South African Romuleas) and the keys. I had seed started the same time from IBSA of the same species and there are many similarities and a few differences as well. This second year of blooming they seem much more alike than different although the backs are definitely different (but still fitting within the description of this species) and one of them has a style that divides beyond the anthers and one that divides closer to the anthers. In the most recent monograph by Manning and Goldblatt it was noted that there were populations found that differed in style lengths from the previous population described as deep pink with a pale cup and each tepal marked with a dark central band outlined with a violet zone on the other margin with anthers with reddish brown pollen. Ah, for those earlier days when I didn't really care what it was and just enjoyed the flowers! I have added pictures from this year's flowers showing the very beautiful and different backs of the two clones and one of a bee that I watched rolling around in the flowers. It reminded me of my dog when she seems really happy and rolls on her bag moving around and rubbing it. Romulea diversiformis is blooming this time of the year and I added another picture of it just so you can see the form of the leaves a little better. Audrey has sent me pictures which I added to the South African wiki page under Romulea diversiformis x Romulea komsbergensis hybrids. She writes: "The first of the Romulea pictures came from IBSA wild collected seed, in a batch of R. diversiformis seed. The rest of the seedlings flowered typically, but this one is a R. komsbergensis X R. diversiformis hybrid. The remaining photos are the result of self-pollinating the first flower, so that they are F2 hybrids all from the same pod of seeds!" Be sure and look at the parents first and then her amazing flowers. All you have to do is to take one look at the variations and realize that it would be quite easy to grow hybrids that don't exactly fit the keys even if we didn't manipulate the pollination if more than one flower was blooming at the same time and nature did the job. Finally I added another picture of Romulea luteoflora taken one day when there were quite a few of the wonderful yellow and black flowers open at the same time. My contribution to this rainy dreary day. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From ConroeJoe@aol.com Tue Feb 17 18:17:28 2004 Message-Id: <42.46db9248.2d63fafc@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Nerium florogenesis and embryo development Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:17:16 EST Hi, I found an online abstract about flowering in Nerine. I didn't realize it but the flowers begin their development (in the bulb) 2 years before we see them. Does anyone know how widespread this phenomenon is in the Amaryllidaceae? Does it explain why some plants are prone to miss a year (of flowering) after they are moved? LINK: Abstract: Embryogenesis and seed germination of Nerine http://www.actahort.org/books/430/430_18.htm Cordially, Joe in Conroe, TX, nice Spring-like weather this week. From Antennaria@aol.com Tue Feb 17 21:41:27 2004 Message-Id: <15a.2dd9a825.2d642ad2@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Fragrance in Allium Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 21:41:22 EST Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net wrote: >Mark McDonough mentioned fragrance for Allium >perdulce. Mark, is Allium moschatum fragrant? The >name suggests that it might be. Well, "moschatum" means musky or musk-scented, which of course is not a particularly pleasurable scent for most sniffers. I don't recall any particular scent on this species, so I suspect my specimens are inodorous (I always take note of floral scents). However, an allied species in the same genus section; Scorodon, namely Allium callimischon ssp. haemostictum; and a delightful dwarf autumn blooming species in its own right, has flowers that reek at close hand with the stench of gas. I know only of a couple foul-smelling allium species, whereas most species are lightly fragrant, and quite a number are intensely fragrant... in fact a recently named subsection of the genus Allium described in 1994, is entirely based on fact the blossoms are intensely like hyacinths; subsection Odoratae R. M. Fritsch. Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From Antennaria@aol.com Tue Feb 17 21:56:46 2004 Message-Id: From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Tiny bulbs-A rubrovittatum Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 21:56:36 EST Lisa Flaum osthill@htc.net wrote: >My A rubrovittatum, which came from Jane, >flowers at about 4" (10cm). It is fairly dry in >the summer-perhaps its stunted? >Mark, it is growing outside in my rock garden, >a southfacing clay slope, amended with >chicken grit and horse manure. I plan to try >some in a trough because they are easily >overlooked in the garden. Lisa, from a follow-up message I understand you garden in central USA someplace. Can you tell us whwre and what you climate and zone are, to give context to the fact you are able to grow Allium rubrovittatum outside. Do you consider it reliably hardy for you? How many winters has it survived outdoors? I've tried it twice here in New England, and both times it didn't survive the winter, but maybe I haven't found the right spot for it. It is a cute plant if you like true miniatures. You've given me some clues on how I might treat it next time around. By the way, in Seattle I grew a form of Allium parciflorum that was only about 2-3" tall... absolutely minute. I no longer have that form, but in New England I grow a iron-clad hardy form of this Mediterranean that grows 12"-16" tall... a filmy mass of thready stems and a haze of tiny pinkish bugles in July. This form is large enough, and the bulbs prolific enough building into clumps, to make a noticeable display in mid-summer, whereas the smaller forms are only suitable to a trough or pot. Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From samclan@redshift.com Wed Feb 18 00:10:25 2004 Message-Id: <4032F41A.8050100@redshift.com> From: Shirley Meneice Subject: [Fwd: Oxalis] Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 21:11:54 -0800 Anyone have the answer to this? Shirley Meneice -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Oxalis Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:38:02 EST From: Dpescadera@aol.com To: samclan@redshift.com Dear Shirley, With all your bulb knowledge, do Oxalis spread by seed (I don't mean underground bulbils)? Someone just said that they don't--but how else do you get isolated patches all around? I looked in Corky's book and she describes rooting at nodes, taproots, bulblets--but doesn't talk about fruit, but her botanical drawings have seed pods. In John Bryan's new book he says you don't need to think of other forms of propagation because of the prolific production of offset bulbs. Then he says: Sow seed in spring....Even small offsets will flower after l season's growth." What do you think? If you are rushed, can you just e-mail this to someone in the bulb society? Oxalis is getting to be a big problem on the front ranch, so that is why the subject came up. Many thanks and all the best, Diana Corky lists O.pes-caprae, o.albicans ssp.pilosa,o.corniculata, O.laxa From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Wed Feb 18 07:12:25 2004 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: [Fwd: Oxalis] Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:12:23 +0000 Hi Shirley: Certain Oxalises can become terrible pests (pest-caprae, corniculata, articulata, etc.). Yes they may set seed although this is not so common as in most other plants except in their native habitats. Lots of offsets of many sizes are produced by the mother bulbs and when one removes the big clumps it is common that tiny offsets fell and are spread around. Along this, it is better to place the removed clumps in buckets or bags and not carrying them around in the hands. Another way of propagation shared by both valued and weedy kinds alike is the production of runners that spread new bulbils around. This is another source for Oxalis contamination. Haven't you friend tried spraying the clumps with broad leaved herbicide? This is usually pretty effective and a single application will make it. The plants must be in full growth and warm weather is desirable. Regards Alberto- _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.latam.msn.com/ From jshields104@insightbb.com Wed Feb 18 10:36:33 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040218103607.02a30878@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Sprekelia page Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:36:32 -0500 Hi folks, I have added a page on Sprekelia to my amaryllids web site. The new page is at: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/amaryllids/Sprekelia.html Does anyone have an image of Sprekelia glauca or S. clintae that I could use on that page? Same goes for SS. 'Peru' and formosissima f. williamsii. I give full attribution for images, as on the page mentioned. An image of Hippeastralia (the bigeneric Hippeastrum X Sprekelia hybrid) would also be appreciated. Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From blweintraub1@earthlink.net Wed Feb 18 14:16:14 2004 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20040218072944.01d4fcc0@earthlink.net> From: Barbara Weintraub Subject: Tiny bulbs (mostly western US natives) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:16:13 -0700 Ken Hixson wrote: > I'd like to suggest an anemone, but haven't grown any small ones. I grew various colors of the common A. blanda in my previous garden. They come up late in this climate (May-June), remain in flower longer than many other spring-blooming "bulbs," and the dying foliage isn't offensive. Uncommon and probably not in commerce is the native A. tuberosa. I found (and photographed) one plant blooming along I-10 near the Arizona/New Mexico border after a particularly wet winter and during a particularly wet spring. It's an amazingly delicate little thing, unexpected in the desert sand, that would be difficult to find unless one is looking for it. If there had been an expanse of them, I might have collected one. Collecting seed would be preferable, but doubt I could find it again when not in bloom unless flagged beforehand. If grown hard, another native, Pulsatilla patens, remains in character with a leaf or two and a striking bloom of lavender-blue. It is fairly common in the Ponderosa pine zone of the Rockies, including New Mexico. It is often confused in nurseries with the European species which is larger and has more foliage. If you want the real thing, either grow it from wild-collected seed or get it from a reliable native plant source. Another hard-to-find native is Leucocrinum montanum. I have quixotic directions for a population in/near Raton, New Mexico for which I searched last June. No luck. Turns out that it flowers early (April) and disappears, its seed forming underground. I think I've found a source in Colorado and will check again this spring. Lewisia pygmaea is just that: tiny. Found in montane forest openings and subalpine meadows, it is impressive in large numbers. It would provide an early seasonal splash of color in a trough. This one is fairly common in the right habitat in New Mexico and, I suspect, the rest of the southern Rockies. Claytonia lanceolata and Lloydia serotina are other small, high elevation beauties. Talinum /Phemeranthus sp. - Several species of Talinum are tiny! There's one as-yet-unidentified annual growing on my property that would look great in a trough; it's easy to miss otherwise. It blooms in mid-summer to fall. Most talinums are hard to find in the wild, let alone in commerce. There was an article in The New Mexico Botanist several years ago about the genus, including descriptions of newly-identified species. When hiking through the same canyon where the rare endemic Ipomopsis sancti-spiritus grows, I found (and photographed) a 3" wide mound of a yellow-flowered corydalis. It looked liked Coydalis aurea, except that it wasn't growing upright, was in an entirely different biosphere, and wasn't weedy. Unfortunately, I haven't seen it again. Perhaps there are other tiny corydalises? How's that for a start? I bet there are other tiny yet impressive native bulbous, tuberous, etc. plants that would look great in troughs! - Barbara Leaf and Stone Barbara L. Weintraub 20 Estambre Road Santa Fe, NM 87508-8769 7000 feet elevation blweintraub1@earthlink.net From lizwat@earthlink.net Wed Feb 18 14:25:37 2004 Message-Id: <4033BC2D.9090300@earthlink.net> From: Liz Waterman Subject: [Fwd: Oxalis] Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:25:33 -0800 Some Oxalis do, others don't set seed. O. corniculata does set seed abundantly. O. pes-caprae doesn't set seed at all but still manages to multiply abundantly. Have heard it is a pentaploid and uneven ploids are usually sterile. This is way beyond my own knowledge. This article on O. pes-caprae in our local paper was unusually accurate. http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,82%257E1804%257E1941631,00.html Liz Shirley Meneice wrote: > Anyone have the answer to this? > Shirley Meneice > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Oxalis > Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:38:02 EST > From: Dpescadera@aol.com > To: samclan@redshift.com > > Dear Shirley, > With all your bulb knowledge, do Oxalis spread by seed (I don't > mean > underground bulbils)? Someone just said that they don't--but how else > do you > get isolated patches all around? I looked in Corky's book and she > describes > rooting at nodes, taproots, bulblets--but doesn't talk about fruit, > but her > botanical drawings have seed pods. > In John Bryan's new book he says you don't need to think of other > forms of > propagation because of the prolific production of offset bulbs. Then > he says: > Sow seed in spring....Even small offsets will flower after l season's > growth." > What do you think? If you are rushed, can you just e-mail this to > someone in the bulb society? Oxalis is getting to be a big problem on > the front > ranch, so that is why the subject came up. > Many thanks and all the best, Diana > Corky lists O.pes-caprae, o.albicans ssp.pilosa,o.corniculata, > O.laxa > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From tony@plantdelights.com Wed Feb 18 17:24:44 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20040218172444.012f6ab0@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: south african bulbs Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:24:44 -0500 Bulb Growers: As we continue to scout for winter survivors, we found Boophone haemanthoides has survived and is still evergreen in an open scree planting at 8 degrees F...amazing. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From susanann@sbcglobal.net Wed Feb 18 17:48:42 2004 Message-Id: From: Susan Hayek Subject: Newbie Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:48:51 -0800 Hi! I'm a newbie recently moved from the Central Coast of California, to the North Coast. We moved up during torrential rains last April with 350+ plants onto a 3+ acre parcel and didn't get to planting until mid summer. I have no idea about what is going to thrive and what isn't. Gardening on the Central Coast wasn't easy. We had horrible clay soil, very moderate temps and mostly drought. I'd get one group of plants established (I thought) and then we'd either go through a series of extraordinarily dry years, or flood as we did in '95, or have a severe frost. Up here at least we have some water. In my last garden, I had planted some Australian bulbs from a source in Santa Barbara, but they went out of business, and I can't find my records, so at this point I don't know what I had/have. Some may have survived in the potted plants we brought with us. I did have one Moraea villosa make it. It bloomed this fall and with some looking around I discovered who it was. I have a few seeds and don't know what to do with them. I need to look at some archives to see if it's possible for me to start some seed. I'll lurk and learn, hopefully. susan hayek Fortuna , North Coast of CA, US Zone 9 From arnold@nj.rr.com Wed Feb 18 18:50:01 2004 Message-Id: <4033FA27.6070809@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: south african bulbs Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:49:59 -0500 TONY; Did the foliage die back or remain green and go flaccid from the cold. My boophone disticha lose their leaves and shrivel a bit ( indoors of course). I give a sprinkle around the edge of the pot and that seems to help them through our unbearable winter. Any pictures , please. Arnold New Jersey From susanann@sbcglobal.net Wed Feb 18 21:01:59 2004 Message-Id: From: Susan Hayek Subject: thanks for the welcome Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:02:08 -0800 Thanks to those who posted a welcome to me. I have seed of what is supposed to be Moraea villosa, or some form of Moraea thereof. Where do I go to find out how to or if I can get the seeds to grow? susan North Coast of California, Zone 9 From vikingdoc@earthlink.net Thu Feb 19 01:40:50 2004 Message-Id: <410-2200424196419260@earthlink.net> From: "Kathy Stokmanis" Subject: Slow release fertilizers Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:41:09 -0800 Hello, all Some time ago someone referred to a previous discussion years ago (possibly through IBS?)concerning Osmocote and similar slow release fertilizers. I have been unable to find it in the archives. Can anyone recall the date or answer the question that the brief mention tantalized me with: what did the research indicate about heat and it's effect on this type of fertilizer? If this rather garbled message rings a bell for anyone, please let me know. I need to fertilize some bulbs. Thanks, Kathy S. It's rained 9 inches here since Sunday. Daffodils are starting to bloom as are Iris reticulata. Zone 8/9, Sierra foothills, Northern California, wet in winter, very dry and hot in summer. From khixson@nu-world.com Thu Feb 19 03:55:57 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20040219005539.0084a3f8@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: tiny bulbs, companions Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 00:55:39 -0800 Hi, All Jane wrote: >such as dwarf conifers, Daphne petraea and other small species, tiny >Rhododendron species, saxifrages, and so on. The bulbs would be a seasonal >accent, which is why I specified that their foliage not overwhelm the >plants around them. As Mary Sue noted, this means bulbs that tolerate some summer water, though under a conifer can be fairly dry. I've grown very few of the really small Daphnies, and would be reluctant to have anything overgrow them at any time. My limited experience is that Daphnies do not tolerate being overgrown. Rhododendrons may be a little more variable. The radicans/keleticum/ prostratum group gives lovely little plants. However, even a "large" growing plant like keleticum Rock 58 will loose branches if overgrown for a fairly short period of time, and once a branch is dead, does not seem to fill back in the way some plants do. R. camtschaticum is relatively "large", but seems to tolerate at least some leaning by neighbors. Being deciduous probably has something to do with its' ability to sprout out from bare branches. I have a seedling from Purple Gem, a lepidote or scaly leaved rhododendron, a mound about 15" high/diameter, and fairly dense. Bloomeria crocea had been planted nearby, and seeded into the rhododendron. One year I realized that the rhododendron was being almost completely shaded/ covered over by the leaves of the Bloomeria, which can be more than 1/2" wide and two feet long. Worried that the rhododendron would be killed, I waited until the Bloomeria had died down, in July, and dug the rhodie. The rootball came up as a pancake about 3 inches thick. A few small bulbs of the Bloomeria were in the rootball, but most were in a layer right under where the rhododendron roots ended. I picked up as many bulbs as possible, and even dug down deeper to see if there were more-there weren't many. However, what worried me the most, was the fact that there were matchhead size bulblets--obviously, the Bloomeria was managing to seed into the dome of the rhododendron, germinate and grow well. The rhododendron should have some moisture all summer long, and the whole bed is mulched with bark mulch. The Bloomeria should like to be dry most of the summer. Yet the two have co-existed for about fifteen years now. I think this works is because this rhododendron is tolerant of being shaded for a while, while the Bloomeria makes fairly dense foliage for a while, but not until after the rhododendron has formed and firmed up its' new growth. The Bloomeria foliage is dense for a month, but by late June is gone and only the ripening seedheads/stems remain. Another odd thing about this combination: When the Bloomeria was originally planted, it was in full sun. An oak planted to the south has grown to the extent that now the only direct sunlight is probably briefly in the afternoon. It's not dense shade, but it is full shade, or nearly so. In the noonday shade, the yellow of the Bloomeria glows, but doesn't glare. It's nicer in the shade than in full sun. Ken Z7 western Oregon From khixson@nu-world.com Thu Feb 19 04:00:28 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20040219010022.0084a3f8@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Tiny bulbs Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 01:00:22 -0800 Hi All: Scilla bifolia, blue, opened its' first flowers today alongside a near white Cyclamen coum. Both are on the north side of the trunk of a dawn redwood, so the Scilla would flower earlier elsewhere. Chionodoxa, Scilla, and Chionoscilla are so common that it may not be worth mentioning for Jane's list. I do wish these were more reliably available. I've twice ordered Scilla gigantea alba from a source that imports from Holland, and both times they flowered blue, which I already have. Barbara L. Weintraub wrote: >Another hard-to-find native is Leucocrinum montanum. This "sand Lily" was one of the first things I ordered from Siskiyou Rare Plants, and was disappointed every year when it flowered. Although it had good broad petals, the flower texture was so thin you could almost see through the petals. I've always assumed there were better forms/better substanced flowers. Claude Barr, in "Jewels of the Plains" p106, says "The flower may be little more than an inch or all of two inches wide, the lobes, or petals, often straplike. The finest forms, however, have quite wide petals." Thus I assume it varies and selected forms might be nicer. FWIW, he also says "Several thick, moisture-storing roots, spreading from a tiny crown". Thus this is not a bulb, corm, etc. I would appreciate hearing from others who grow it, and can comment on the substance of the flowers. I'd probably try to replace it if I could find good substanced flowers. This probably would rate as "cute" rather than "exquisite". It should be a good trough plant, if the trough could dry out during the summer. Mine seemed to tolerate our wet winters fairly well, but died out after several years. Ken Z7 western Oregon From ernestwells@mindspring.com Thu Feb 19 07:18:28 2004 Message-Id: From: Tom Wells Subject: Slow release fertilizers Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 04:18:24 -0800 Hi Kathy, I believe you will find your answer at this site, plus many others. Good Hunting.... Tom > http://www.fertilizer.org/ifa/publicat/techpprs/techdx5.asp On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 10:41 PM, Kathy Stokmanis wrote: > Hello, all > > Some time ago someone referred to a previous discussion years ago > (possibly through IBS?)concerning Osmocote and similar slow release > fertilizers. I have been unable to find it in the archives. Can > anyone recall the date or answer the question that the brief mention > tantalized me with: what did the research indicate about heat and > it's effect on this type of fertilizer? If this rather garbled > message rings a bell for anyone, please let me know. I need to > fertilize some bulbs. > > Thanks, > Kathy S. > > It's rained 9 inches here since Sunday. Daffodils are starting to > bloom as are Iris reticulata. Zone 8/9, Sierra foothills, Northern > California, wet in winter, very dry and hot in summer. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From tony@plantdelights.com Thu Feb 19 07:19:45 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20040219071945.012f7ec8@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: south african bulbs Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 07:19:45 -0500 Arnold: The leaves on the Boophane haemanthoides went limp in very cold temps, but returned to normal when the temps rose above freezing. At 06:49 PM 2/18/2004 -0500, you wrote: >TONY; > >Did the foliage die back or remain green and go flaccid from the cold. >My boophone disticha lose their leaves and shrivel a bit ( indoors of >course). I give a sprinkle around the edge of the pot and that seems >to help them through our unbearable winter. > >Any pictures , please. > >Arnold >New Jersey > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Thu Feb 19 07:44:09 2004 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: thanks for the welcome Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:44:04 +0000 Dear Susan: You will need to know the name of your Moraea or any additional data for there are Moraeas that will grow in response to the cool part of the year and others that will only grow in response to warm weather. As for the conditions you have mentioned in your introductory message, Jane McGary and Mary Sue (and a number of others) grow very extensive collections in raised beds, a method that simplifies all garden duties enormously. Welcome too Kind regards Alberto Castillo zone 9b/10 in around Buenos Aires, Argentina _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.latam.msn.com/ From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Thu Feb 19 08:03:36 2004 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Slow release fertilizers Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:03:29 +0000 Hi Kathy: Bulbous plants are not completely like the other kinds of plants. Besides, the same existence of a bulb implies that they are adapted to endure abnormal hardships. Part of these hardships include the scarcity of food in the soils. We tend to regard our bulbs like chicken or pigs that need enormous amount of food and leftovers. I always read with interest postings to the forum in which people state very seriously that their bulbs do very well with THIS or THAT (in many cases formulas that contain a chemical element in a noxious form to bulbs). What they are really saying is that their bulbs can endure THIS and THAT without dying or visible damage. Of course the company that manufactures a certain chemical will put it in heaven as the cure all blessing. The fact is that slow release fertilizers are not apt for bulbs as the release curve in most formulas is dependent on temperature (lots of it released in warm weather), this first. One way to overcome this is to use very minute quantities (not that recommended by the maker) but there are periods of the year when bulbous plants must not receive additional fertilizer at all and other times when they need it. This is not the topic of the week of course but so many disparate things are being said on the subject that a word of warning is important specially if you are new to the itching. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/ From ernestwells@mindspring.com Thu Feb 19 08:06:06 2004 Message-Id: <5FC529FC-62DC-11D8-B47D-000A95937A28@mindspring.com> From: Tom Wells Subject: Slow release fertilizers Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 05:06:04 -0800  Kathy, Here is a site for Apex Fertilizers, http://www.apexfertilizer.com/products/prod_landscape.html , I use Apex 14/14/14 on my plants ( Dave Conway introduced me to this product). If you go to that link, you will see a Soil/Media Temperature release rate tables. Hope that answers your original question on time vs. temperature. Tom   From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Thu Feb 19 08:10:46 2004 Message-Id: <001001c3f6ea$d0ad3be0$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: south african bulbs Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:18:07 -0500 Tony - Are they really evergreen? or do they go dormant in the summer? My 2-3 bulbs of this go dormant in the summer here in Florida. spring is here in St. Petersburg, FL Kevin Preuss ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Avent" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] south african bulbs > Arnold: > > The leaves on the Boophane haemanthoides went limp in very cold temps, but > returned to normal when the temps rose above freezing. > > At 06:49 PM 2/18/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >TONY; > > > >Did the foliage die back or remain green and go flaccid from the cold. > >My boophone disticha lose their leaves and shrivel a bit ( indoors of > >course). I give a sprinkle around the edge of the pot and that seems > >to help them through our unbearable winter. > > > >Any pictures , please. > > > >Arnold > >New Jersey > > > >_______________________________________________ > >pbs mailing list > >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > Tony Avent > Plant Delights Nursery @ > Juniper Level Botanic Garden > 9241 Sauls Road > Raleigh, NC 27603 USA > Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F > Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F > USDA Hardiness Zone 7b > email tony@plantdelights.com > website http://www.plantdel.com > phone 919 772-4794 > fax 919 772-4752 > "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least > three times" - Avent > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From tony@plantdelights.com Thu Feb 19 08:35:09 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20040219083510.012e7bd8@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: south african bulbs Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:35:10 -0500 Kevin: Sorry, I should have said wintergreen as they do go summer dormant. At 08:18 AM 2/19/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Tony - >Are they really evergreen? or do they go dormant in the summer? My 2-3 bulbs >of this go dormant in the summer here in Florida. > >spring is here in St. Petersburg, FL >Kevin Preuss > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tony Avent" >To: "Pacific Bulb Society" >Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 7:19 AM >Subject: Re: [pbs] south african bulbs > > >> Arnold: >> >> The leaves on the Boophane haemanthoides went limp in very cold temps, but >> returned to normal when the temps rose above freezing. >> >> At 06:49 PM 2/18/2004 -0500, you wrote: >> >TONY; >> > >> >Did the foliage die back or remain green and go flaccid from the cold. >> >My boophone disticha lose their leaves and shrivel a bit ( indoors of >> >course). I give a sprinkle around the edge of the pot and that seems >> >to help them through our unbearable winter. >> > >> >Any pictures , please. >> > >> >Arnold >> >New Jersey >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >pbs mailing list >> >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> > >> Tony Avent >> Plant Delights Nursery @ >> Juniper Level Botanic Garden >> 9241 Sauls Road >> Raleigh, NC 27603 USA >> Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F >> Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F >> USDA Hardiness Zone 7b >> email tony@plantdelights.com >> website http://www.plantdel.com >> phone 919 772-4794 >> fax 919 772-4752 >> "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least >> three times" - Avent >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From jshields104@insightbb.com Thu Feb 19 08:40:29 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040219082125.02c218d0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Feeding Bulbs. Was Re: [pbs] Slow release fertilizers Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:40:28 -0500 Hi Kathy and all, Bulb food is a fascinating topic, but let me second the comments of Alberto. The only careful studies I have ever heard of are those discussed in such books as "The Growth of Bulbs" by A.R. Rees (Academic Press, London and New York, 1972) and "The Physiology of Flower Bulbs" by A. de Hartogh and M. Le Nard (Elsevier, Amsterdam, 1993). Those findings dealt mainly with Narcissus, Tulip, and a few other varieties of bulbs that are produced commercially in huge quantities. We have to extrapolate from those to other bulbs. Essentially, all bulbs need to be fed only once or twice a year: when the roots are active and when the tops are actively growing. In all cases the bulbs need relatively large amounts of nitrogen (N) and potassium (K) and relatively little phosphorus (P). In the fertilizer analysis numbers, they are in the order N - P - K and expressed (in the USA anyway) as percentages by weight of N as simply nitrogen, of P as phosphorus pentoxide, and of K as potassium oxide. A fertilizer listed as 14 - 14 - 14 would contain by weight 14% N, 14% P2O5, and 14% K2O. In clay-containing soils, excessive phosphate builds up and can then bind iron, causing iron-deficiency chlorosis. In clay-free potting mixes, the excess phosphate simply washes out, and then causes no harm. Most exotic bulbs (i.e., from someplace other than where you are growing them) are at least a little stressed all the time, so they are much more sensitive to pathogens like fungi and bacteria than they might be in their native habitat. Excessive fertilizer salt build-up can stress the roots. Organic fertilizers can feed and encourage the fungi and bacteria. It sounds from the above as if it is impossible to grow exotic bulbs. In fact, as Alberto pointed out, bulbs evolved to help plants survive times of environmental stress. Any one of us may not be able to grow them all, but most of us can grow most of them. As we learn to grow the more sensitive and demanding bulbs, we learn more about growing bulbs. This and similar plant lists are excellent schools where we can all learn more. Good growing! Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) where the snow is melting at last ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Thu Feb 19 09:03:10 2004 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476B97629@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Slow release fertilizers Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:03:01 -0600 Hi Kathy: I'm working off of memory here. I believe this is the way these fertilizers work, but wouldn't swear to it. Osmocote is a pelleted timed release fertilizer. The coating varies in thickness. The coating is dissolved (perhaps not the correct technical term) through the interaction of moisture and microbes. Because microbes respond to temperature, the higher the temperature the quicker the release rate. Likewise, the warmer the water the more rapidly the coating dissolves. We discovered this when using Osmocote to fertilize some high value ornamental plantings in Texas. The fertilizer seemed to 'run out' before the labeled date. As it turned out, this was not really a problem. Plants also increase metabolic rates during periods of high temperature when moisture is not a limiting factor and so can effectively utilize larger amounts of fertilizer, particularly nitrogen - particularly for plants grown in full sun. We switched to a longer lasting formulation (12 month I think) in order to supply the ornamentals with the 9 months of fertilizer they needed. Never observed any toxicity. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: Kathy Stokmanis [mailto:vikingdoc@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:41 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Slow release fertilizers Hello, all Some time ago someone referred to a previous discussion years ago (possibly through IBS?)concerning Osmocote and similar slow release fertilizers. I have been unable to find it in the archives. Can anyone recall the date or answer the question that the brief mention tantalized me with: what did the research indicate about heat and it's effect on this type of fertilizer? If this rather garbled message rings a bell for anyone, please let me know. I need to fertilize some bulbs. Thanks, Kathy S. It's rained 9 inches here since Sunday. Daffodils are starting to bloom as are Iris reticulata. Zone 8/9, Sierra foothills, Northern California, wet in winter, very dry and hot in summer. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From hkoopowi@uci.edu Thu Feb 19 10:19:23 2004 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20040219071501.019e1c68@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Slow release fertilizers Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 07:19:18 -0800 Hi Kathy: Slow release fertilizers are probably not very good for bulbs. Use either a good potato or tomato fertilizer. Bulb plants need higher potassium (K) than nitrogen (N). Commercial bulb fertilizers and bone meal may not be that good. Feed when the plants are in active growth. We have found that Miracle Grow works resaonably well for bulbs too. cheers harold At 05:06 AM 2/19/2004 -0800, you wrote: > Kathy, > >Here is a site for Apex Fertilizers, >http://www.apexfertilizer.com/products/prod_landscape.html , I use Apex >14/14/14 on my plants ( Dave Conway introduced me to this product). If you >go to that link, you will see a Soil/Media Temperature release rate >tables. Hope that answers your original question on time vs. temperature. > > > >Tom > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Prof. Harold Koopowitz Ecology and Evolutionary Biology University of California, Irvine, CA 92697 From msittner@mcn.org Thu Feb 19 10:24:56 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040219065234.018ce4c0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Slow release fertilizers Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 07:23:46 -0800 Dear Kathy, A number of people in the past have reported losing their bulbs from Osmocote dumping too much at once. Uli had some horror stories about his Hippeastrums and I think Diana Chapman reported some sad results too, but she can report that herself. Uli is currently off line. There is a time release fertilizer called nutricote that isn't supposed to be temperature sensitive. I've tried that since I live in an area with excessive rainfall and I suspect that any fertilizer I add to the soil is leached out rather quickly. At the end of the season the pellets still seemed hard so they obviously are not breaking down quickly like osmocote making me wonder if they were simply decorative or if they were releasing anything at all. They were easy to use however. We discussed fertilizers in these archives: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2003-October/subject.html I bundled together some of the comments on fertilizers from the IBS forum in the past and I'll send that to you privately later today when I have more time. Having paid attention to what has been written about fertilizers in the past on IBS and our forum I think there is not a lot of agreement. I've tried different things and would be hard pressed to say what worked the best. It is complicated by what your medium is, how much water your plants are getting, what your temperatures are and what kind of bulbs you are growing. There probably isn't a one formula fits all. In South Africa on this last trip people were convinced that fertilizing was really helping. Gordon Summerfield's advice on growing bulbs and feeding is in this archive: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2003-October/015568.html Part of the problem seemed that a number of them were using a new batch of sand that probably was very low in nutrients and maybe minerals too and their bulbs that they had done really well with before were not responding. Adding fertilizers perked them up. I know a number of people who swear by dilute miracle grow with every watering. Will Ashburner who was a participant in the IBS forum in the past said something that has stuck in my brain. He suspected getting your medium correct was more important than what kind of fertilizer you used. He stressed a medium with the correct air filled porosity. I hope this helps. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Thu Feb 19 11:50:10 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040219082926.018bfe20@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Moraea villosa seed Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:35:54 -0800 Dear Susan, If your seed is Moraea villosa, my experience has been that it is best started in the fall when it will get a change between day and night temperatures and then come up and be growing when it normally would be (winter to spring). You can refrigerate the seed in a jar until then. I've grown a fair number of IBSA Irid seeds that arrive in spring. I just hold then until the proper time for planting. As Alberto points out, there are summer growing Moraeas and they should be started in spring. If you are interested in growing South African bulbs that are mostly from winter rainfall areas I highly recommend The Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs by John Manning, Peter Goldblatt, and Dee Snijman. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Thu Feb 19 11:50:15 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040219083642.018c9ee0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Ba-Ba-Ba..Babiana Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:49:28 -0800 Dear Jamie, No one has responded to your Babiana question on the list although they may have done it privately. The nice thing about growing bargains is if they act as annuals you don't feel bad. The Babiana stricta hybrids which may be what you have are very easy plants for me. They do well in the ground and have increased nicely. They'd be worth trying in Zone 8 I expect. The ones I had in the ground in 1990 when we got down to 19 F (-7 C) came back. They retain their leaves a long time so by planting now you may be able to keep them growing long enough to develop new corms for next year. You should think of them as bulbs changing hemispheres. If they survive they may take a bit of time to get adjusted and bloom again. They grow deep and do better with containers that are deep it has been my experience. The corms are small so you wouldn't think that by looking at them. I have mine planted in the ground, in large wooden boxes, and in deep plastic pots. They are doing really well in my raised beds (9 inch deep plastic pots submerged in a gravel-sand plunge). They do best in sun, but if it gets hot early for you move them to shade so you can keep them growing as long as possible this year. I had read they were great container plants and that wasn't my experience, at least not in shallow pots. Now I expect a lot of people to write that they grow them well in 2 or 4 inch pots. Mary Sue From jshields104@insightbb.com Thu Feb 19 12:07:47 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040219120428.029cdd30@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Ba-Ba-Ba..Babiana Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:07:35 -0500 Hi all, I've found that I can't seem to grow Babiana at all. I've tried them in 6-inch pots and in 2-gallon pots. They do not do well in my cool greenhouse in winter, it seems. We may not get enough winter sunlight for them; I am not sure what the trouble is. They do seem to get spider mites very easily. Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) At 08:49 AM 2/19/2004 -0800, Mary Sue wrote: >Dear Jamie, > >......... Now I expect a lot of people to write that they grow them well >in 2 or 4 inch pots. > >Mary Sue ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Feb 19 12:29:02 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: BAH! - Babiana Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:28:42 -0600 >I've found that I can't seem to grow Babiana at all. I've tried >them in 6-inch pots and in 2-gallon pots. They do not do well in my >cool greenhouse in winter, it seems. >Jim Shields Dear All; I'll echo Jim S's comments about Babiana, too. I find them worthless here in pots, cool greenhouse, cold frame trying to get them to bloom any way. My friend, the late Bob Ward, had very good luck protecting them in Little Rock Arkansas. Mary Sue mentioned changing hemispheres. I'd bet these bargain bags of Babiana are all Dutch grown and are as much on northern cycles as they get. Chalk up another bulb exclusive mild climate success. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From arnold@nj.rr.com Thu Feb 19 13:10:20 2004 Message-Id: <4034FC09.3000708@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Slow release fertilizers Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:10:17 -0500 Mary Sue: Could you send the info from the IBS to all of us, or can it be placed in the archives for review when needed. Arnold From vikingdoc@earthlink.net Thu Feb 19 13:10:19 2004 Message-Id: <410-220042419181037770@earthlink.net> From: "Kathy Stokmanis" Subject: fertilizers--thank you Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:10:37 -0800 Thank you, everyone, for your responses to my question. I have to fight the tendency to overwater and overfertilize, so a twice a year application of a slow release fertilizer is an attempt to protect my bulbs. I use a VERY porous mix for the same reason. Last year I had success with banishing summer dormant bulbs (Calochortus venusta, Scilla peruviana, Dichelostemma ida-maia to name a few) to an out of the way part of the garden so they did not get water (other than a once a month sprinkling, thanks to some posts I read here about letting many bulbs get too dry). All of them came back during the fall and winter, though the deer munched the Scilla and Muscari. It is very useful to get information on websites and other references. I have bookmarked them all. I found the original reference I had lost thanks to Mary Sue. During the Fertilizer TOW Lee Poulsen referred to a previous discussion about slow release fertilizers, though the comment was not discussed further. The site suggested by Tom Wells answered my question and increases my concern about 'burning' my bulbs during the intense heat of summer here. Even some summer growers seem to move into a type of dormancy just to survive, unlike my experience in other parts of the country that get less hot, so they would not be able to use the extra fertilizer released during hotter periods. I have to water very carefully during July and August. I don't have a sand bed I can plunge my pots in to keep them cooler and I can end up with bulb mush if I water too much. Some members suggested the thought-provoking idea of whether to fertilize at all. I do repot every other year and add compost to the beds. Perhaps I will experiment as my stock of bulbs increases. Kathy Stokmanis, zone 8/9, Northern California, Sierra foothills Sunny today after four days of rain and 9 inches of water. Another reason for very porous mixes. Temperatures in the 40's and 50's, 60's forecast for the weekend, definitely spring. From vikingdoc@earthlink.net Thu Feb 19 13:22:34 2004 Message-Id: <410-220042419182253660@earthlink.net> From: "Kathy Stokmanis" Subject: Babiana Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:22:53 -0800 I unfortunately planted my Babiana stricta in a large, deep pot with summer growers. They have lush green foliage right now and are in partial shade where ithey only get midday sun (tall pines block the sun the rest of the time). They bloom beautifully then the foliage burns, even with the short sun exposure. Then they get watered all summer because of the other plants in the pot but still come back in the late fall. I really need to get them moved into another pot but they obviously love this climate. We get the occasional light frost but the Babiana is sheltered by the tall pines. The temperature rarely falls below 25 F and we haven't had snow for two years. Kathy S. Sunset zone 8/9, winter rain, summer hot and dry. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Feb 19 19:18:36 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040219101835.00bb0cf8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Slow release fertilizers Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:23:08 -0800 Mary Sue wrote, >I know a number of people who swear by dilute miracle grow with every >watering. Will Ashburner who was a participant in the IBS forum in the >past said something that has stuck in my brain. He suspected getting your >medium correct was more important than what kind of fertilizer you used. >He stressed a medium with the correct air filled porosity. I swear by applying a liquid (soluble) fertilizer 4 times a year: once in fall and 3 times in spring. I have used Miracle-Gro, which several writers mentioned, but I prefer Peters Blossom Booster. I also repot my bulbs into completely fresh soil (including nutritious unwashed sand from a subalpine quarry) every other year. The old soil goes onto the garden as a top-dressing or ingredient in rock garden soil. For information on porosity and air space, look in the new book "Rock Garden Design and Construction," (Timber Press, 2003) in the chapters on "Soils" and "Moraines." You will learn probably more than you ever wanted to know on the subject. There is also a detailed table of soil ingredients as an appendix. Best regards, Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From Jamievande@freenet.de Thu Feb 19 13:57:39 2004 Message-Id: <004a01c3f71a$af0d2330$6402a8c0@Jamie2> From: "Jamie" Subject: Babiana Notes Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:00:46 +0100 I wanted to thank you all for the bits and bobs on Babs. Mary Sue, not to worry, there were a few private comments, as well! Most agree they are easy, if it's not too cold, so, in my Zone 8, I'm going to start them in a deep pot and transfer them to the garden in the Summer. Well, I'm off for a few day to do a conference, so, well hear each other when I'm back. It makes a nice escape, as this is the week of Karnival in Cologne and all hell breaks loose! Ciao, Jamie V. Cologne From khixson@nu-world.com Thu Feb 19 14:33:33 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20040219113309.00849518@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: BAH! - Babiana Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:33:09 -0800 HI, All: > I'll echo Jim S's comments about Babiana, too. I find them >worthless here in pots, cool greenhouse, cold frame trying to get >them to bloom any way. My friend, the late Bob Ward, had very good >luck protecting them in Little Rock Arkansas. > Mary Sue mentioned changing hemispheres. I'd bet these >bargain bags of Babiana are all Dutch grown and are as much on >northern cycles as they get. I also bought these, to try in my Z7, western Oregon garden. they came from a seedhouse in South Carolina and arrived in the spring. I first put them in a gallon pot, got leaves, no flowers. Carryed them through the winter with protection from freezing, still no flowers. Planted them in the ground. They lasted another year or so, but never flowered. I also assumed they had been imported from Holland. Ken From khixson@nu-world.com Thu Feb 19 15:18:20 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20040219121804.00850f70@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Feeding Bulbs. Was Re: [pbs] Slow release fertilizers Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:18:04 -0800 >Those findings dealt mainly with >Narcissus, Tulip, and a few other varieties of bulbs that are produced >commercially in huge quantities. We have to extrapolate from those to >other bulbs. > >Essentially, all bulbs need to be fed only once or twice a year: when the >roots are active and when the tops are actively growing. Respectfully disagree with how Jim states this. There are other bulbs on which a very great deal is known. For instance, try a websearch on "Easter Lilies + fertilizing" or go to Walter Britton's Website http://camosun.bc.ca/~jbritton/netlil/lilynetpage.htm and follow some of the links. There are numerous studies of lilies showing when roots grow, nitrogen is translocated, etc, etc. They aren't necessarily all in one place or published on the internet. Different bulbs have different growth cycles. Your goal as a grower of any bulb is to have the fertilizer available to the roots as or just before the roots are ready to take up nutrients. You also have to factor in the fact that nutrients move through the soil/potting mix at different rates, and are absorbed differently at different pHs. Nitrogen for instance is moved as much as 18" into the soil by ONE inch of rain or irrigation. A pot or container is usually highly leached, at least for nitrogen, but other, less mobile fertilizers can build up to toxic levels. Note the white deposits of salts on the insides of even plastic pots. The top growth of the bulb is already contained within the bulb, and fertilizing by the appearance of the top growth is useless. (The top growth does need water, and nitrogen may be taken up by the roots and translocated, but the topgrowth can be completed even if you grow the bulb in marbles, without any nutrient but moisture.) The exception is when a particular plant is unable to absorb nutrients from the soil, due to poor roots or whatever, and foliar feeding can provide some improvement, particularly in appearance. Fortunately, most potting mixes contain organic matter, which can absorb the nitrogen and later release it as the organic matter decays. Peat moss has an extremely high capacity to do this (CEC or cation exchange capacity). Osmocote, Nutricote and similiar fertilizers have a coating which slows the absorbtion of water and thus the release of fertilizer. This works well for plants which need an even supply of nutrients, or a temperature related supply, such as, say, petunias. It may not be a good choice for the specialized growth cycle of flowering bulbs. It may work well for seedling (juvenile) bulbs however. In the end, you have to take the best advice you can get, and adapt it to your own conditions, bulbs you grow, rainfall and temperture patterns, etc. Ken From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Thu Feb 19 15:59:42 2004 Message-Id: <156.2e14830f.2d667db5@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: BAH! - Babiana Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:59:33 EST In a message dated 2/19/2004 12:29:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, jwaddick@kc.rr.com writes: >Dear All; > I'll echo Jim S's comments about Babiana, too. I find them >worthless here in pots, cool greenhouse Gee, most of the Babiana's tried have performed quite well here, no special care. B. nana has been in bloom for weeks perfuming the GH. B. stricta is the first to bloom but I'm not that impressed with the display. Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From osthill@htc.net Thu Feb 19 17:18:24 2004 Message-Id: <40353574.1080502@htc.net> From: Lisa and Alec Flaum Subject: Tiny bulbs-A rubrovittatum Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:15:16 -0600 Dear Mark, Waterloo, IL is about 20 miles south of downtown St. Louis MO My climate data is in my signature. It translates to USDA zone 6. I get about 35 inches of rain a year, which falls as 3 inches a month. In the winter it falls in quarter inch increments, while summer rains tend to fall as 3-4 inches every 4-6 weeks, a sort of "modified mediterranean" A rubrovittatum has been in the ground for 3 years. It flowers well and is multiplying nicely, though I have not yet found any seedlings. I checked the patch earlier today and there are green shoots at the base of the dried leaves. This past winter has been mostly mild, although the last 2 weeks of Jan, and the first week of Feb were teens during the day and single digits at night (in farhenheit). Ice, but no snow cover. Last winter was very long and consistantly cold; the temp didn't get above freezing for 10 weeks. Summers are consistantly hot, with temps in the 90's fairly common. So yeah, I think it is reliably hardy. Now, if I could just get A. caeruleum to stick around! Lisa Antennaria@aol.com wrote: > Lisa, from a follow-up message I understand you garden in central USA > someplace. Can you tell us whwre and what you climate and zone are, to give context > to the fact you are able to grow Allium rubrovittatum outside. Do you > consider it reliably hardy for you? How many winters has it survived outdoors? -- Lisa Flaum Waterloo, IL central USA clay soil, Hot humid summers (to 105F, 40C) generally dry, punctuated by gully washers Cold, wet, cloudy winters, little snow cover, intense freeze/thaw cycle (-10F, -25C) From jimmckenney@starpower.net Thu Feb 19 17:43:23 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040219174309.00856100@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Ba-Ba-Ba..Babiana Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:43:09 -0500 Mary Sue Ittner wrote: >You should think of them as bulbs changing >hemispheres. If they survive they may take a bit of time to get adjusted >and bloom again. What can be done to help them adjust? My experience with Cape Bulbs is that they do not adjust easily. Freesia, Babiana, Sparaxis, Ixia, Ornithogalum, Homeria and others are offered in the trade for spring planting. The ones I have tried bloomed if planted as early as possible - a cool period during early development seems important for successful flower development. By the time they come into bloom it's often so hot that the flowers do not last very long - in fact, they're pretty fleeting. Then, they have another surprise. If you leave them in the garden, they ripen and die down; and then in late August they start to grow again. Some, such as Ornithogalum thyrsoides, will start to grow in August even when dug and stored dry. These would probably survive the winter here if dormant. Is anyone out there growing these outside in a cold-winter climate? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, zone 7 From puppincuff@cox.net Thu Feb 19 20:50:39 2004 Message-Id: <008701c3f754$8649c180$738e0544@oc.cox.net> From: "puppincuff" Subject: fertilizers--thank you Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:54:49 -0800 I have been using a time release lawn food for everything. It is a combination of polymer coated urea, polymer coated sulfur coated urea, and trace elements. The release rate is determined by the amount of water being used (as opposed to Osmocote which releases more quickly in warm weather than cool) and I can buy 50 lbs. for less than $20.00. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Stokmanis" To: Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 10:10 AM Subject: [pbs] fertilizers--thank you > Thank you, everyone, for your responses to my question. I have to fight the tendency to overwater and overfertilize, so a twice a year application of a slow release fertilizer is an attempt to protect my bulbs. I use a VERY porous mix for the same reason. Last year I had success with banishing summer dormant bulbs (Calochortus venusta, Scilla peruviana, Dichelostemma ida-maia to name a few) to an out of the way part of the garden so they did not get water (other than a once a month sprinkling, thanks to some posts I read here about letting many bulbs get too dry). All of them came back during the fall and winter, though the deer munched the Scilla and Muscari. > > It is very useful to get information on websites and other references. I have bookmarked them all. I found the original reference I had lost thanks to Mary Sue. During the Fertilizer TOW Lee Poulsen referred to a previous discussion about slow release fertilizers, though the comment was not discussed further. The site suggested by Tom Wells answered my question and increases my concern about 'burning' my bulbs during the intense heat of summer here. Even some summer growers seem to move into a type of dormancy just to survive, unlike my experience in other parts of the country that get less hot, so they would not be able to use the extra fertilizer released during hotter periods. I have to water very carefully during July and August. I don't have a sand bed I can plunge my pots in to keep them cooler and I can end up with bulb mush if I water too much. > > Some members suggested the thought-provoking idea of whether to fertilize at all. I do repot every other year and add compost to the beds. Perhaps I will experiment as my stock of bulbs increases. > > > Kathy Stokmanis, zone 8/9, Northern California, Sierra foothills > Sunny today after four days of rain and 9 inches of water. Another reason for very porous mixes. Temperatures in the 40's and 50's, 60's forecast for the weekend, definitely spring. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Run007CB@aol.com Thu Feb 19 21:27:31 2004 Message-Id: <145.227473b5.2d66ca84@aol.com> From: Run007CB@aol.com Subject: fertilizers Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:27:16 EST I also use bag fertilizer, a 40lb bag of 13-13-13, for $5. I just scoop some out and apply it lightly to the garden every two weeks when the bulbs are in active growth. I have liquid fertilizers, but I don't have time to pamper stuff. I dug up some Habranthus bulbs to plant something else, and they were huge compared to previous years. Could be the rain we've been getting or maybe its the fertilizer? Charles Edelman South Texas 85 degrees and sunny From msittner@mcn.org Thu Feb 19 22:50:53 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040219193834.00dc5ca0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Slow release fertilizers Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:50:16 -0800 Arnold wrote: >Could you send the info from the IBS to all of us, or can it be placed >in the archives for review when needed. Some of you know that I used to save threads from the IBS forum by editing the email and just adding the responses to the original message. Sometimes if the same subject was discussed again I'd add additional information to it. I found this really helpful since I didn't always know at the time when I might want to review what people said later and it was helpful to have everything in one place. Also I found those archives not easy to access. You really had to order them and have them sent to you. My "archives" were a quick search away since Eudora has a great search feature. Over the years I have shared my archives with a lot of people. Many of these bundles are really long. I don't feel comfortable sending them to this list however since everything is archived and open to the public and those people who provided information did not provide it with the knowledge it would be posted to the Internet. What I saved on fertilizers was from three different dates. I have sent my file to Kathy who started the discussion and to Arnold. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Fri Feb 20 00:52:28 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040219203202.00a20460@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Romulea Mystery Plant Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:51:24 -0800 Dear All, Since we have a lot of new members of our list, I'd like to refer you to our Mystery bulb page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MysteryBulbs There are a lot of pictures on that page that have been there a very long time. Can anyone help us figure them out? I have added a mystery Romulea. Recently there was talk of misnamed pictures on the Internet and I think it is really easy to do if you have a plant from a trusted source and inadequate reference books to help you sort out whether the name is correct or not. This Romulea was first grown from Alpine Garden seed Joyce shared with me under the name Romulea linaresii. I never questioned it and even put a picture on the wiki labeled this (Ouch!) But I have since acquired The Smaller Bulbs by Brian Mathew and The World of Iridaceae (sorry Alberto, but it has information, perhaps wrong, but more than some of my other books on many irids). In those books I learned the flower is either 1.5cm long or 2-2.5cm long. Both say it has a violet throat. Mathew says the inner bract is papery and red spotted and the stamens overtop the style. My plants have a orangy yellow throat, the style is even with the stamens and the inner bract is green with a membranous margin and the flower is bigger so it's not that. Since all the R. bulbocodiums have the characteristic that the stigmas overtop the stamens, it can't be that. The second batch of seed came from a NARGS seed exchange as Romulea ramiflora. It looks like the same plant to me and they both started flowering on the very same day! Mathew describes it as a rather unattractive tall species with small flowers. This is not a tall species and the flowers are much bigger than described and I think it is charming. Innes describes it as having externally greenish-yellow segments, but also with 3 bright violet longitudinal lines. Mine are greenish-yellow, but no lines. This book mentions a subsp. gaditana, syn. Romulea gaditana, syn. R. linaresii var. gaditana, syn. R. ramiflora var gigantea that has bigger flowers, but the throat is described as pale green and the outer segments green. Mine are not like that. Looking on the IBS bulb gallery there is a picture that looks like mine taken by Dirk Wallace and labeled as R. nivalis. The size is right, the color is right according to Mathew (violet to lilac with a yellow throat) and the inner bract is right. But he describes the leaves as stiffly erect and short and these leaves are neither. My picture doesn't look like Tony Goode's picture of that species on the wiki. On the IBS site and others there is a picture of a white flowered plant for this species and Bryan's Bulbs describes it as white tipped lilac, throat yellow, late spring. Innes describes this species as yellow throat, segments tipped bluish-violet with white area below and says it flowers from November to January (which isn't late spring.) This description sounds like Tony's picture. Phillips and Rix shows very erect leaves and the outside of the flowers which also look different. So, can anyone tell me what this plant really is? Robin, help. It is obviously making its way around the seed exchanges. It blooms quickly from seed and has been easy for me to grow. It was already getting pollinated as my picture shows and this was the first day it was open. I'll probably have some to share with the BX, but only if I know what it really is. Thanks for any help. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Fri Feb 20 09:46:24 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040219202905.00d22df0@mail.mcn.org> From: James Waddick (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Dwarf Tulipa-PBS and Alpine Topic of the Week Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 22:25:47 -0800 Mark McDonough: The well known super-hero, "The Onion Man" (aka Mark McDonough), has had a lingering interest in smaller tulip species. Allium and an astounding "Allium Central" are featured on his well-worth-the-visit-website (http://www.plantbuzz.com). The site shows much more and suggests his wide knowledge. This introduction should intensify the bulb wishes of February topics. Dwarf Tulipa by Mark McDonough I've never been a fan of tulips, finding them too tall and fancy, the foliage corpulent and unrefined. The flowers are sumptuous to be sure, but that's beside the point. I plant 'Red Emperor' and 'Yellow Emperor' for my mom; she adores them. In 3-4 years hence, I must dig them out, the waning bulbs sputtering feeble distorted foliage and few diminished blooms, to be replaced with freshly planted Holland-grown bulbs. And the cycle continues. Rock gardeners tend to shun tulips, the allure of growing them spoiled by centuries of selection and over hybridization. We think of tulips as bedding plants suitable for seasonal floral display in parks, corporate landscapes, and botanical gardens; definitely not for the rock garden in the true sense. Even the lovely Tulipa greigii-kaufmanniana hybrids, dwarf enough for rock garden consideration, are still too portly and ostentatious for inclusion. Instead, we rock gardeners prefer to grow "species crocus" (not the inflated Dutch crocus, absolutely not), dwarf narcissus (but with Narcissus, even full sized daffodils are admissible), dwarf reticulata iris, galanthus, scilla, muscari, any fritillary that will grow, no matter the size, and various other "minor bulbs". The enlightened also grow Allium . Tulipa species are poorly represented in rock gardens, perhaps not because they are deliberately shunned, but because we fail to consider them. It wasn't until recent years that I discovered the charm of dwarf Tulipa species. Reluctantly I tried a couple species with the conviction bulbs would fizzle out in a few years, as their fancy brethren do. But they didn't fizzle out, and instead continued to grow, increase, and flower reliably for many years without signs of decline. Dwarf species Tulips are now among my favorite bulbs, and my journey in search of dwarf Tulipa is just beginning. I still hold the line at Tulipa species with coarse fat foliage, preferring instead those that are less "tulip-like", with smaller concise herbage, fascinatingly undulate basal leaves, or fine linear strands of gray or green vegetation. Tulipa photo gallery: ============== To see photographs of dwarf Tulipa, you can click on the link below to view a photo gallery assembled in support of this topic of the week. There are also links to nurseries that sell most or all of the species I've showcased here. http://ww w.plantbuzz.com/RockGard/Bulbs/Tulipa/im_Tulipa_gal1.htm ...or go to http://www.plantbuzz.com and click on the Dwarf Tulipa link. At the end of this message are more links to Tulipa images, as well a few bibliographic citations and bulb sources. Tulipa Taxonomy ============ Tulipa taxonomy exists in a rather confused state; not surprising given the large number of species, possibly numbering as high as 150. The species are mostly found in central Asia, but are also found in Europe to China. The most significant treatment, "The Genus Tulipa" by A. D. Hall in 1940, is considered outdated and in need of a revision. There are smaller regional works and other scientific studies that piecemeal the genus together. Researching a variety of web sites, botanical publications, and taxonomic references, the Tulipa names I've used in this message represent a consensus of recent taxonomic opinion as best I can determine. Of course, there's lots of room for dissenting opinion :-) I gravitate towards web sites like www.hoogdix.com because their descriptive listing of Tulipa species and cultivars is among the most thorough around; a reference in itself. Since this company, along with Van Tubergen, were directly responsible for the introduction of many Tulipa species and cultivars, the brief historical anecdotes on each variety offers more insight than what can be found elsewhere. Some Tulipa species & cultivars I grow: ============================ 1. Tulipa polychroma Thinking about Tulipa, one conjures up visions of blazing red and yellow tones, possibly too brash for those who like more subdued hues. So I start at the opposite end of the spectrum with my favorite; T. polychroma, a refined miniature just 2 - 3" (5 - 7.5 cm) tall in bloom, with white star-cups, clean as snow inside but with yolk-yellow centers, the exterior of the blooms serenely touched with pale gray-olive and a hint of rose. The foliage is light gray, narrow and channeled. The early blooms (in March) are deliciously scented, luring me to lie on the muddy ground to take in the perfume. This species, in the Biflores section of Tulipa, has two to several flowers per stem. 2. Tulipa 'Little Princess' This is a hybrid between T. hageri and T. aucheriana. Both of those species has been in question, but remain as valid species in the most recent taxonomic positions I found references for. A stunning miniature tulip that has universal appeal. The flowers are full and open, greeting the sun, a fascinating coppery orange color with an abrupt ring of yellow encircling a brooding center of dark black-green. The anthers are very large, black, and conspicuously ornamental. The outside of the blooms show lighter melon colors. The lightly fragrant flowers age to Chinese red in about two weeks after first opening. Only 3 - 5" tall (7.5 - 12.5 cm) in flower, later elongating a couple more inches. 3. Tulipa tarda A bright species that'll increase and come back year after year to produce quantities of cheerful little yellow, white-tipped flowers. The photos in my Tulipa gallery show a planting now well over 10 years old, but still making a grand show each spring. The egg-hued blooms only open in full sun, have a light fragrance, and are olive-backed when the flowers are closed tight under low-light conditions. Up to 8 flowers per 5" stem and are olive-backed when the flowers are closed tight under low-light conditions. Up to 8 flowers per 5" stem are produced, accounting for it's floriferous habit. Tulipa biflora, turkestanica, and the aforementioned T. polychroma, are all in the same Biflores Section, each species recognized as valid. 4. Tulipa batalinii This species seems an enigma, but I'm not sure why. It's the opinion of some, this is really a yellow color form of red-flowered T. linifolia. They say, it's in the "linifolia - Batalinii group", whatever that means taxonomically. There are indeed similarities, but lumping these together as a single entity doesn't seem an obvious conclusion. Checking recent taxonomic opinion to ascertain consensus, it appears that T. batalinii and T. linifolia are two distinct species, both members of the closely allied Clusianae Section of Tulipa. T. batalinii has been in cultivation for a long time, as has T. linifolia. The beautiful cultivar known as T. batalinii 'Bronze Charm' is said to be a hybrid between the two species, first introduced by the Holland bulb firm of Van Tubergen, responsible for introducing a number of Tulipa species and cultivars. Photographs of batalinii 'Bronze Charm' and linifolia are found on my photo gallery prepared for this ATOW. Some observations between the two species (from plants I've grown) - batalinii has linear, acuminate, undulate foliage. - linifolia has linear, nearly lorate, foliage, that can be undulate - batalinii has urceolate (lily shaped) flowers - linifolia has flowers that open flat - batalinii has full flowers, but not rotate - linifolia has full flowers that are rotate - batalinii has pale yellow to medium yellow flowers - linifolia has shining, intense red flowers - batalinii has 3 distinct inner petals, and 3 differently shaped outer petals. - linifolia has all 6 petals ~ uniformly shaped and sized - batalinii does not have a distinct central eye - linifolia has a distinct jet-black central eye Personally I find the two species instantly recognizable and distinct, yet some schools of thought put these two entities together as synonyms. 5. Tulipa bakeri 'Lilac Wonder' Pretty lilac-pink flowers and yolk-yellow centers, in small but substantial classic cup-shaped blooms. The foliage is too chubby for my taste, visually detracting from this medium-sized "dwarf" tulip. When buying Holland-grown bulbs in nursery center bulb bins each autumn, it seems this Tulipa is a frequent usurper of other species, the bulbs oftentimes mixed in with other varieties. 6. Tulipa humilis The name can represent a whole cluster of species, depending on one's viewpoint, in the Saxatiles Section of the genus. It has the same coloring as T. bakeri, typically a nice bright pink with a prominent yellow center. This species is dwarfer than bakeri, growing 4 - 6" (10 - 15 cm) tall, with upright starry flowers. The leaves are more refined, being small, linear, and grayish. According to some authors, T. humilis subsumes such species as aucheriana, pulchella, and violacea, but recent botanical works have recognized each as valid species. Bulbs of T. humilis and many of it's varieties are often available inexpensively. 6a. Tulipa humilis 'Albo Coerulea Oculata' (correctly T. violacea var. pallida) It is here among the variable humilis group of allied species, that we have the famous T. humilis 'Albo Coerulea Oculata', a gorgeous thing with open, starry white flowers sporting steel blue centers. It's "to die for". About 3 - 4" in bloom (7.5 - 10 cm). This plant is found under a bewildering array of synonyms and variant names. To the best of my knowledge, it is correctly identified as Tulipa violacea var. pallida. But also look for it as T. pulchella albocoerulea oculata, T. pulchella caerulea, T. humilis alba caerulea, and many other name permutations! The bulbs, when obtainable, cost about $5 - $8 U.S. each! Check the links posted on my Dwarf Tulipa gallery for a couple bulb sources for this beauty. Splurge and get 5-6 bulbs; it's worth the investment. Some photo links are listed below. 7. Tulipa stellata ssp. chrysantha Inexpensively available where better selections of Holland bulbs are sold, this brilliant species is usually labeled simply as T. chrysantha. It's also been considered a variety of T. clusiana, and listed as T. clusiana var. chrysantha, sometimes offered for sale under that name. It's a charming dwarf species with neat basal foliage that is small, narrow and trim, with tightly held buds which in low light show the cinnabar red backs of the petals, metamorphosing into surprisingly large, flat, starry blooms of pure yellow after a couple hours of strong sunshine. It pairs nicely with the electric red T. linifolia. Both this species and T. linifolia are in the Clusianae section of Tulipa. 8. Tulipa linifolia I particularly like the fullness of the blooms on this species, rendering a nearly circular or rotate flower profile when fully opened on warm sunny days. The broad petals reflex backwards, abruptly contracted into a fine point, giving a most distinctive appearance. The flowers, on 4 - 5" (10 - 12.5 cm) stems, have a satiny, light-reflective sheen, and a jet black center to each flower. Flowers in April the same time as T. stellata ssp. chrysantha. Tulipa species & cultivars I want to grow: ============================= There are a large number of desirable dwarf tulipa for the rock garden. It would be tedious to list them all, but here are some that are on my mind: a. T. celsiana - low or prostrate glossy green leaves, and lots of starry yellow flowers, stained red on the outside. The Van Tubergen link below has a good color photo. 10 - 15 cm. b. T. clusiana cultivars - this species is the namesake for the Clusianae section of Tulipa, famous as the 'Lady Tulip'. All varieties are charming, the basic theme being white, cream, yellow, or pinkish flowers, strongly banded with crimson on the exterior. Most varieties grow 8 - 12" (20 - 30 cm). c. T. dasystemon - the true plant is hard to come by. This species, allied to T. tarda, is usually misidentified in cultivation and usurped by T. tarda itself. The true species has blue-green leaves and bright yellow flowers, without the white tips as in T. tarda. About 4" tall (10 cm). d. T. kurdica - here you have an extremely dwarf species, with very narrow straps of foliage and nearly stemless cranberry red flowers sitting nearly stemless. e. T. 'Little Beauty' - a great looking miniature with small, moody, red-purplish-tinted cups. Only 4" (10 cm) tall. There is a very good photo of on the Van Tubegen web site... see link below. f. T. montana (syn. T. wilsoniana) - a small refined species with show-stopping chalice-shaped red-orange flowers on mere 4" - 6" stems (10 - 15 cm). g. T. schrenkii - growing 3" - 4" tall (7.5 - 10 cm), with scarlet flowers and an orange margin. h. T. sylvestris - stoloniferously increasing species with semi-nodding starry flowers of golden yellow, tinged greenish on the exterior. Said to be strongly fragrant. Looks to be a delightful species; see the Van Tubergen link below. i. T. turkestanica - (syn. bifloriformis Vved.) - The photo on the Van Tubergen web site (see link below) shows a most graceful and desirable species, with cream-white flowers with yellow-orange centers. The reflexed and nodding flowers have a strong resemblance to an Erythronium species. Grows 8 - 12" (20 - 30 cm). j. T. vvedenskyi - There are several named forms of this species. Has the appearance of a "classic tulip" in form, but smaller, and growing 8" - 12" tall (20 - 30 cm) with bright orange and yellow flowers. *************** I'm only just getting started with Tulipa species. Please share with us your favorites. Are Tulipa species short-lived in your experience, as the books say, or are they more permanent than generally credited? Know of any good taxonomic references for the genus? *************** Selected Dwarf Tulipa - Internet links. (in no particular order) ========================== Van Tubergen Bulb company http://www.vantuberge n.co.uk/vtub/dept.asp?dept_id=55 (Good images of such species as T. celsiana, turkestanica, 'Little Beauty', "clusiana chrysantha", sylvestris, and others) http://www.hoogdix.com Click on: descriptive catalog > click on Tulipa (large and informative listing of Tulipa species and cultivars) Paul Christian http://rareplants.co.uk/tulipa/ BulbMeister.com http://www.bulbme ister.com/flowershop/fpl2003/page10.html The National Tulip Collection at the Cambridge University Botanic Garden http://www.botanic.cam.ac.uk/Tulip a.html Tulipa "bifloriformis" ( = turkestanica) http://www.gartendat enbank.de/pflanzen/tulipa/a009.htm Pacific Rim native Plant Nursery http://www.hillkeep.ca/bulbs%20tu lipa.htm Odyssey Bulbs http://www.odysseybulbs .com/scillatoveltheimia.html John Lonsdale's Edgewood Gardens John Lonsdale has some very good images of selected Tulipa species. http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/Plant%20Galleries/album.asp?cat=Liliacea e\Tulipa Tulipa kurdica - a very dwarf red-flowered species http://www.alpinegardensociety.org/sho ws/results/shows2003/shows/KENT/images/Trevor_Jones/sizedMVC-007S.JPG.html Tulipa humilis alba caerulea (= T. violacea var. pallida) Good close-up photograph by: Cliff Booker Posted: 26.04.03, 23:46:52 http://home.no.net/alpenpix/board/board.php?action=read&id_board=03042 6234652 Beautiful view of Tulipa humilis 'Alba Caerulea Oculata' ( = T. violacea var. pallida) Pacific Rim Native Plant Nursery http://www.hillkeep.ca/bulbs%20tu lipa.htm http://www.hillkeep.ca/images/Tulipa_humilis_Alba_Caerulea_Oculatax_c_Hans_R oemer.jpg Small thumbnail sized images of Tulipa species and other bulbs available at: http://www.botanicus.nu/index.ph p?menu=007 The Reticulata Iris guy, Alan McMurtrie, Ontario CA, has some nice Tulipa photos: http://www.reticulatas.com /HardyBulbs/index.html http://www.reticulatas.com/HardyBulbs/Tulip-1.html http://www.reticulatas.c om/HardyBulbs/Tulip-2.html http://www.reticulatas.com/HardyBulbs/Tulip-3.html http://www.reticulatas.c om/HardyBulbs/Tulip-4.html article on tulipa species http:/ /www.canoe.ca/HGGardening_PlantGardenPlants/oct01_tulipa1.html tulipa gallery (in German, but some nice photos) http://www.gartenda tenbank.de/pflanzen/tulipa/index.htm Nursery source: Fraser's Thimble Farms, BC Canada http://www.thimblefarms.com/sbulb6. html Dwarf Bulbs, by Brian Mathew, 1973 - contains a brief but most useful enumeration of species. There are several other excellent books by Brian Mathew covering Tulipa. The Random House of Bulbs, by Roger Phillips & Martyn Rix, 1989 - an indispensable photographic guide to bulbs of all sorts, but of course, a good selection of Tulipa. Czechoslovakian Tulipa species study - includes a few pages in English and botanical latin names; representing a recent partial taxonomic summary of species, synonyms, and Sections of related species. http://genban k.vurv.cz/genetic/resources/documents/Tulipa.pdf Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! + dwarf Tulipa! Note from Mary Sue: Our wiki wasn't mentioned, but it has some nice pictures too: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tulipa Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From dejager@bulbargence.com Fri Feb 20 03:55:05 2004 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: BAH! - Babiana Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:54:01 +0100 Dear Jim and Jamie, Indeed these Babianas are Dutch grown, but on a southern hemisphere cycle (warm storage during the winter). Beware! these plants need to be converted carefully otherwise they will disappear next winter. Kind regards nee le 19/02/04 18:28, James Waddick à jwaddick@kc.rr.com a écrit : > Mary Sue mentioned changing hemispheres. I'd bet these > bargain bags of Babiana are all Dutch grown and are as much on > northern cycles as they get. Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence Mas d'Argence 30300 Fourques France tel 31(0)466 016 519 fax 0466 011 245 http://www.bulbargence.com From arnold@nj.rr.com Fri Feb 20 12:45:05 2004 Message-Id: <4036479A.2050007@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Dwarf Tulipa Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:44:58 -0500 From arnold@nj.rr.com Fri Feb 20 12:56:52 2004 Message-Id: <40364A5A.8070205@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Dwarf Tulipa Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:56:42 -0500 Many of Mark's comments mirror my feelings as well. The large showy tulips approach garish costumes at times and they frequently dwindle. I have planted and kept a number of species tulips that have persisted and flower regularly every year. My favorite at the moment is Tulipa ferganica followed closely by Tulipa acuminata. Others that have done well: T. altaica T. aucheriana T. bakeri T. clusiana T. humilis T. tarda T. urumiensis Planted in normal garden soil with a handful of grit added below each bulb. Arnold New Jersey From jimmckenney@starpower.net Fri Feb 20 14:15:04 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040220141446.00858bf0@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Dwarf Tulipa-PBS and Alpine Topic of the Week Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 14:14:46 -0500 Very nice (and very provocative) introduction, Mark. I agree with much that you say, but I enthusiastically and cordially disagree with your assessment of big hybrids, either of Tulipa or Crocus. Since the TOW is Dwarf Tulipa, I'll post my comments on non-dwarf Tulipa separately. Later this year I'll try to post some photos of an old (maybe as much as thirty year old) clump of Tulipa whittallii which now annually puts up hundreds of leaves (and very few flowers; it grows in the shade). The related (some would say conspecific) T. orphanidea has been good here, but does not spread in that way. A tulip received as Tulipa stellata chrysantha many years ago is an accomplished spreader and survivor here. I've seen similar clumps of Tulipa sylvestris in other local gardens. I would not hesitate to recommend these to other gardeners in similar climates. I couldn't agree less about your comments about what rock gardeners prefer. I'm a rock gardener -of sorts, but not the sort who measures everything and tosses anything over eight inches high. But then, I don't have a real rock garden. In my experience, most rock gardeners don't. What they call a rock garden is the rock garden bed, so to speak. When the rock garden craze really bloomed in England a century ago, a proper rock garden (like a proper garden) was something big enough to walk through, something which very literally imitated a walk through an alpine meadow. They were, so to speak, alpine stroll gardens. These gardens were big enough to accommodate any tulip, and the rock gardeners of a century ago were eager planters of the big wild tulips then being introduced from central Asia. I don't think most American gardeners have either the space of the inclination to build a "real" rock garden. When Henri Correvon visited the US (in the 1920's I think) he visited Louise Beebe Wilder's rock garden and made a somewhat dismissive comment to the effect that it was nice but small. Most of us have to be satisfied with something bigger than a trough but smaller by far than the real thing. And in my part of the world, where exposed rock is not a typical part of the landscape, rock gardens of all but the highest degree of sophistication look like sore thumbs: like a Cadillac parked on the lawn in front of a subdivision rambler. They just don't look right, even when planted with the most rarefied of dwarf plants (plants which the majority of people, if it notices them at all, probably thinks they are weeds). The rock gardeners you seem to be referring to are the space-starved modern rock gardeners who set aside a few square yards of rock heap and within that area manage to see glacial till, a moraine, assorted chasms and crevices (one for European plants, a few inches away another for Himalayan plants), and scree. If they are handy with artificially moved water (in my opinion the bane of many an otherwise good garden) there may be water falls and other aqueous gizmos. As for plants, nothing much bigger than a Draba need apply. And thus the need for tiny tulips and crocus. And, as far as I'm concerned, the result is proportionally reduced enjoyment. So let's not bash the big tulips and crocus. And please! We all don't prefer the so-called species - certainly not to the exclusion of the "inflated Dutch crocus". "Absolutely not"? In this garden, absolutely yes! Unless what you are growing has been collected in the wild, there is a good chance that your "species" are in fact infra-specific hybrids. And for that matter, what sense does it make to attach a different significance to a hybrid done by a Dutchman rather than by a bumblebee? It's the same DNA getting scrambled in either case. Those people whose spiritual pride attaches a different significance to the actions of man - as opposed to those of the rest of nature - baffle me. I'm convinced that the vaunted distinction made between species and hybrids is often bogus. If two nominal species cross and produce fertile offspring, we traditionally say the offspring are hybrids. What we should be saying is that fertile offspring are evidence that the parents are conspecific. This simple observation tells us more than the DNA will ever tell us, and it tells it unequivocally. Wow! All of this over a few flowers! Thanks again, Mark, for such a stimulating first volley. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland zone 7 where snowdrops are finally blooming and the first winter aconites have broken ground. From jimmckenney@starpower.net Fri Feb 20 14:20:41 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040220142029.0085c100@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Dwarf Tulipa Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 14:20:29 -0500 Arnold mentions Tulipa clusiana. For old-timers like me, it would be helpful to know if by Tulipa clusiana is meant the old, purportedly pentaploid (and in commerce probably clonal) form which for years was the only Tulipa clusiana known to most of us, or one of the other forms now called Tulipa clusiana. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Feb 20 14:25:11 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Dwarf Tulipa-PBS and Alpine Topic of the Week Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:24:56 -0600 Dear Mark; I used to grow T linfolia in my old garden and was always surprised by it. The foliage is indeed thin, linear and grey-green - stealth personified. The buds sat right on the ground and on a sunny day pop open spread flat against the ground like brilliant glowing stars of bright red. Always a joy. I missed them in the garden move and you may have persuaded me to get some more. Your interest in T. sylvestris is well warranted. I grow this in a fairly shaded spot. It may bloom better in more sun, but winds around stoloniferously among some small yellow foliage hosta (Golden Scepter). It does get out into the grass so there's always plenty to share. T. turkestanica has been a favorite too. I like the really small white flowers on thin stalks. This is multi-flowered with 2 or 3 (more) flowers per stem. One I hope to try is T. sprengeri or is this too big to fit here? Sounds like an easy long lasting tulip. Any experience? Thanks for a return of tulipomania. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Feb 20 21:17:59 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040220113848.00bc5e80@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Dwarf Tulipa-PBS and Alpine Topic of the Week Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:46:10 -0800 Other correspondents have mentioned some dwarf tulip species that grow well around most of North America. People in California and other warm areas sometimes think they can't grow tulips, but there are species that don't need a severe chill to flower. The best-known is Tulipa clusiana, which comes in several named varieties including a brilliant yellow and red. There are also a number of Mediterranean species, fairly rare in cultivation, that should flourish in warmer climates. Some unusual dwarf tulips I have grown from seed (it takes 4 to 6 years for them to flower) include T. orithyoides (tiny, white-and-greenish, in flower now) from Central Asia; T. cretica, just putting up its first buds; and T. sharonensis from Israel, thanks to a NARGS member there, also about to flower here for the first time. I also have a lot of seedlings from the Archibalds' Iranian collections of several years ago, not yet ready to bloom. No one yet has mentioned the plant sold under the name T. humilis 'Lilliput'. I have trouble believing this is the same species as the other commercial forms of T. humilis, such as "Persian Pearl'. 'Lilliput' has dark red flowers right at ground level and very short foliage. I saw a picture once of T. kurdica which reminded me of it. I have a colony of 'Lilliput' on the rock garden that has flowered regularly for the past 5 years, a pretty good record for tulips in this relatively mild climate and rodent-infested countryside. Other long-lived, dependable bloomers here include T. urumiensis, T. hageri, T. clusiana, T. sylvestris, and T. tarda. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA Northwestern Ore From jimmckenney@starpower.net Fri Feb 20 15:19:46 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040220151933.0085eea0@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Tulipa fosteriana Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:19:33 -0500 First of all, is anyone still calling this Tulipa fosterana? I understand why someone with a refined sense of euphony would prefer fosterana to fosteriana, but which is the currently "correct" spelling? There are some puzzles about this plant which raise doubts for me. One is the connection between the names Red Emperor and Madame Lefeber. These names are often treated as synonyms. But is that correct? Because Red Emperor was collected in 1904, it comes as a surprise to read that Madame Lefeber was "Raised in 1931 by Dirk Lefeber..."(Anna Pavord, The Tulip; I have the tenth printing of the first edition - plenty of time, one would think, to fix errors). A qoute given below suggests that the name Red Emperor was in use well before that time. I realize that until the late '20's, tulip names had no official registrar. Whenever I see a tulip name with a date around 1930, I am cautious about jumping to the assumption that the tulip in question was in fact raised at that time - it and its name may have existed for who knows how long before being officially registered. But Pavord clearly says "raised" in 1931. And that makes me wonder if she knows something that I don't: are Red Emperor and Madame Lefeber distinct clones? My scepticism is fed by a passage from J M C Hoog quoted by Pavord. Was the original Red Emperor a clone or a group of similar wild collected plants? Does there (or did there) exist somewhere a sexually reproducing population which corresponds to what we know as Red Emperor? Evidently, what we know as Red Emperor is not typical (typical in the layman's sense) of most wild Tulipa fosteriana. Is it a naturally occuring hybrid? Pavord quotes ( The Tulip, p. 305) Hoog (sometime after 1914 but otherwise undated) as saying: "J M C Hoog of Van Tubergen remembered that 'he [Joseph Haberhauer, the collector] lived in Samarkand and was the man to whom we owe the magnificent tulip which to honour Sir Michael Foster I called T. fosteriana. He collected these in 1904 in the mountains near Samarkand, and I twice got important quantities. It is curious that the splendid variety which I called 'Red Emperor' only appeared in the first importation, not afterwards." That Hoog did not call Red Emperor a clone is not surprising: according to the OED, the word clone was just coming into use at about the turn of the century. But what did Hoog mean in calling it a variety? Was there only one original plant? Or was that first importation made up completely or in part of what he called Red Emperor? Was Hoog's Red Emperor non-clonal? Was Madame Lefeber named to identify one particular clone of an origianlly non-clonal Red Emperor group? Any thoughts? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net From jimmckenney@starpower.net Fri Feb 20 15:30:41 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040220153028.008596e0@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Tulipa eichleri/undulatifolia Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:30:28 -0500 This is a favorite here, but I'm distressed to see things which suggest that I may be using the wrong name for this. I have had several accessions of this species during the last forty years. The plant I know by this name has plain gray-green foliage and flowers with an easily identified shape. But I note that the plant shown on the wiki seems to have mottled foliage and a different flower shape. Furthermore, the plant illustrated in Anna Pavord's The Tulip shows a plant with robustly spotted foliage- foliage as thickly spotted as any Tulipa greigii hybrid I've ever seen - and a flower which, but for that fact that it is a red tulip, looks nothing like those of my plants. What's the story here? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net From tonyg@thealpinehouse.fsnet.co.uk Fri Feb 20 16:13:25 2004 Message-Id: <002401c3f7f7$86259aa0$1d3087d9@dan> From: "anthony goode" Subject: Mystery Romulea Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 21:21:36 -0000 I have added a photo of a dark flowered from of Romulea bulbocodium on the relevant wiki page. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/romulea_bulbocodium_dk.JPG Perhaps this is the plant that you are growing Mary Sue? ...... or it might be Romulea melitensis, see Collins 'Mediterranean Wild Flowers' which describes it as similar to Romulea lenaresii but with a yellow throat. I have also uploaded my a picture of one of own mystery Romuleas. this one appeared in a batch of seed of Crocus corsicus. Perhaps it is Romulea columnae? http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Romulea_sp.JPG Tony Goode. Norwich UK Mintemp -8C From jimmckenney@starpower.net Fri Feb 20 16:37:56 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040220163743.008361e0@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Dwarf Tulipa-PBS and Alpine Topic of the Week Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 16:37:43 -0500 In discussing the nature of Tulipa linifolia and Tulipa batalinii, Mark McDonough says: >Personally I find the two species instantly recognizable and distinct, yet >some schools of thought put these two entities together as synonyms. Mark, I'll bet you find Great Danes and Chihuahuas "instantly recognizable and distinct", yet the received wisdom is that they are the same species. Thank you for providing an entree into one of my favorite rants. : ) The days are long gone when taxonomists should try to base specific distinctions on what things look like. From the time of Plato and his concept of the eidos (and no doubt long before that) until the end of the nineteenth century, taxonomists routinely based their decisions on what things looked like. No one knew any better. But once science began to appreciate the significance of Gregor Mendel's work, things got turned inside out. Cutting- edge biologists came to a revolutionary realization: Organisms are not members of the same species because they look alike. It's the other way around: they look alike because they are members of the same species (i.e. they look alike because they share the same gene pool). And it seems to me that some taxonomists, even now a century later, do not understand the implications of this. Mother Nature, meanwhile, goes about her business oblivious to all of this. For the first time in history, science began to understand the significance of the similarities and differences we observe. One practical consequence of this for people in the species naming business is that the appearance of things (and by appearance I mean gross morphology, chromosome count, DNA profiles and so on) is much less important than was thought - and in itself does not answer the question about species status. What is it that taxonomists really classify? Isn't it true that what they really classify is their knowledge? When we see similarities, that presumably indicates relationship. But the question always remains: what degree of relationship? And what formal category of classification corresponds to this relationship? And in my opinion, to answer that the scientist has to remove his scientist hat and put on his artist hat. They paint the pictures, and the market buys them or not, depending on the skill of the artist and the expectations of the buyer. From arnold@nj.rr.com Fri Feb 20 16:45:07 2004 Message-Id: <40367FE1.4090203@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Dwarf Tulipa Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 16:45:05 -0500 Jim; I know there has been much discussion about the true clusiana. I have attached a link to the image of the one I have. It was received from Hoog and Dix three years ago. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Tulipa/Tulipa_clusiana2.JPG Arnold New Jersey From jimmckenney@starpower.net Fri Feb 20 16:54:53 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040220165436.00859210@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Please disregard prior posting Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 16:54:36 -0500 My last post was sent with unedited draft material attached. Please disregard the earlier posting. The intended posting follows: In discussing the nature of Tulipa linifolia and Tulipa batalinii, Mark McDonough says: >Personally I find the two species instantly recognizable and distinct, yet >some schools of thought put these two entities together as synonyms. Mark, I'll bet you find Great Danes and Chihuahuas "instantly recognizable and distinct", yet the received wisdom is that they are the same species. Thank you for providing an entree into one of my favorite rants. : ) The days are long gone when taxonomists should try to base specific distinctions on what things look like. From the time of Plato and his concept of the eidos (and no doubt long before that) until the end of the nineteenth century, taxonomists routinely based their decisions on what things looked like. No one knew any better. But once science began to appreciate the significance of Gregor Mendel's work, things got turned inside out. Cutting- edge biologists came to a revolutionary realization: Organisms are not members of the same species because they look alike. It's the other way around: they look alike because they are members of the same species (i.e. they look alike because they share the same gene pool). And it seems to me that some taxonomists, even now a century later, do not understand the implications of this. Mother Nature, meanwhile, goes about her business oblivious to all of this. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net From Antennaria@aol.com Fri Feb 20 23:03:13 2004 Message-Id: <9.23089c3a.2d683278@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Dwarf Tulipa - PBS & Alpine-L Topic of the Week (RePOSTED) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 23:03:04 EST Hi folks, Sorry, but for some reason in my introduction message on Dwarf Tulipa, each URL became doubled and concatenated into a much longer URL that obviously would not work. So, I am reposting the message hoping the URLs will not misbehave this time around. In my previous message I also neglected to include a most important URL; a link to this month's companion site, the Pacific Bulb Society (PBS) web site, where in little over a year a remarkable photo gallery has been amassed on bulbous genera. I have added pertinent links to that site at the end of this message. ======================================================== Dwarf Tulipa by Mark McDonough I've never been a fan of tulips, finding them too tall and fancy, the foliage corpulent and unrefined. The flowers are sumptuous to be sure, but that's beside the point. I plant 'Red Emperor' and 'Yellow Emperor' for my mom; she adores them. In 3-4 years hence, I must dig them out, the waning bulbs sputtering feeble distorted foliage and few diminished blooms, to be replaced with freshly planted Holland-grown bulbs. And the cycle continues. Rock gardeners tend to shun tulips, the allure of growing them spoiled by centuries of selection and over hybridization. We think of tulips as bedding plants suitable for seasonal floral display in parks, corporate landscapes, and botanical gardens; definitely not for the rock garden in the true sense. Even the lovely Tulipa greigii-kaufmanniana hybrids, dwarf enough for rock garden consideration, are still too portly and ostentatious for inclusion. Instead, we rock gardeners prefer to grow "species crocus" (not the inflated Dutch crocus, absolutely not), dwarf narcissus (but with Narcissus, even full sized daffodils are admissible), dwarf reticulata iris, galanthus, scilla, muscari, any fritillary that will grow, no matter the size, and various other "minor bulbs". The enlightened also grow Allium . Tulipa species are poorly represented in rock gardens, perhaps not because they are deliberately shunned, but because we fail to consider them. It wasn't until recent years that I discovered the charm of dwarf Tulipa species. Reluctantly I tried a couple species with the conviction bulbs would fizzle out in a few years, as their fancy brethren do. But they didn't fizzle out, and instead continued to grow, increase, and flower reliably for many years without signs of decline. Dwarf species Tulips are now among my favorite bulbs, and my journey in search of dwarf Tulipa is just beginning. I still hold the line at Tulipa species with coarse fat foliage, preferring instead those that are less "tulip-like", with smaller concise herbage, fascinatingly undulate basal leaves, or fine linear strands of gray or green vegetation. Tulipa photo gallery: ============== To see photographs of dwarf Tulipa, you can click on the link below to view a photo gallery assembled in support of this topic of the week. There are also links to nurseries that sell most or all of the species I've showcased here. http://www.plantbuzz.com/RockGard/Bulbs/Tulipa/im_Tulipa_gal1.htm ...or go to http://www.plantbuzz.com and click on the Dwarf Tulipa link. At the end of this message are more links to Tulipa images, as well a few bibliographic citations and bulb sources. Tulipa Taxonomy ============ Tulipa taxonomy exists in a rather confused state; not surprising given the large number of species, possibly numbering as high as 150. The species are mostly found in central Asia, but are also found in Europe to China. The most significant treatment, "The Genus Tulipa" by A. D. Hall in 1940, is considered outdated and in need of a revision. There are smaller regional works and other scientific studies that piecemeal the genus together. Researching a variety of web sites, botanical publications, and taxonomic references, the Tulipa names I've used in this message represent a consensus of recent taxonomic opinion as best I can determine. Of course, there's lots of room for dissenting opinion :-) I gravitate towards web sites like http://www.hoogdix.com because their descriptive listing of Tulipa species and cultivars is among the most thorough around; a reference in itself. Since this company, along with Van Tubergen, were directly responsible for the introduction of many Tulipa species and cultivars, the brief historical anecdotes on each variety offers more insight than what can be found elsewhere. Some Tulipa species & cultivars I grow: ============================ 1. Tulipa polychroma Thinking about Tulipa, one conjures up visions of blazing red and yellow tones, possibly too brash for those who like more subdued hues. So I start at the opposite end of the spectrum with my favorite; T. polychroma, a refined miniature just 2 - 3" (5 - 7.5 cm) tall in bloom, with white star-cups, clean as snow inside but with yolk-yellow centers, the exterior of the blooms serenely touched with pale gray-olive and a hint of rose. The foliage is light gray, narrow and channeled. The early blooms (in March) are deliciously scented, luring me to lie on the muddy ground to take in the perfume. This species, in the Biflores section of Tulipa, has two to several flowers per stem. 2. Tulipa 'Little Princess' This is a hybrid between T. hageri and T. aucheriana. Both of those species has been in question, but remain as valid species in the most recent taxonomic positions I found references for. A stunning miniature tulip that has universal appeal. The flowers are full and open, greeting the sun, a fascinating coppery orange color with an abrupt ring of yellow encircling a brooding center of dark black-green. The anthers are very large, black, and conspicuously ornamental. The outside of the blooms show lighter melon colors. The lightly fragrant flowers age to Chinese red in about two weeks after first opening. Only 3 - 5" tall (7.5 - 12.5 cm) in flower, later elongating a couple more inches. 3. Tulipa tarda A bright species that'll increase and come back year after year to produce quantities of cheerful little yellow, white-tipped flowers. The photos in my Tulipa gallery show a planting now well over 10 years old, but still making a grand show each spring. The egg-hued blooms only open in full sun, have a light fragrance, and are olive-backed when the flowers are closed tight under low-light conditions. Up to 8 flowers per 5" stem and are olive-backed when the flowers are closed tight under low-light conditions. Up to 8 flowers per 5" stem are produced, accounting for it's floriferous habit. Tulipa biflora, turkestanica, and the aforementioned T. polychroma, are all in the same Biflores Section, each species recognized as valid. 4. Tulipa batalinii This species seems an enigma, but I'm not sure why. It's the opinion of some, this is really a yellow color form of red-flowered T. linifolia. They say, it's in the "linifolia - Batalinii group", whatever that means taxonomically. There are indeed similarities, but lumping these together as a single entity doesn't seem an obvious conclusion. Checking recent taxonomic opinion to ascertain consensus, it appears that T. batalinii and T. linifolia are two distinct species, both members of the closely allied Clusianae Section of Tulipa. T. batalinii has been in cultivation for a long time, as has T. linifolia. The beautiful cultivar known as T. batalinii 'Bronze Charm' is said to be a hybrid between the two species, first introduced by the Holland bulb firm of Van Tubergen, responsible for introducing a number of Tulipa species and cultivars. Photographs of batalinii 'Bronze Charm' and linifolia are found on my photo gallery prepared for this ATOW. Some observations between the two species (from plants I've grown) - batalinii has linear, acuminate, undulate foliage. - linifolia has linear, nearly lorate, foliage, that can be undulate - batalinii has urceolate (lily shaped) flowers - linifolia has flowers that open flat - batalinii has full flowers, but not rotate - linifolia has full flowers that are rotate - batalinii has pale yellow to medium yellow flowers - linifolia has shining, intense red flowers - batalinii has 3 distinct inner petals, and 3 differently shaped outer petals. - linifolia has all 6 petals ~ uniformly shaped and sized - batalinii does not have a distinct central eye - linifolia has a distinct jet-black central eye Personally I find the two species instantly recognizable and distinct, yet some schools of thought put these two entities together as synonyms. 5. Tulipa bakeri 'Lilac Wonder' Pretty lilac-pink flowers and yolk-yellow centers, in small but substantial classic cup-shaped blooms. The foliage is too chubby for my taste, visually detracting from this medium-sized "dwarf" tulip. When buying Holland-grown bulbs in nursery center bulb bins each autumn, it seems this Tulipa is a frequent usurper of other species, the bulbs oftentimes mixed in with other varieties. 6. Tulipa humilis The name can represent a whole cluster of species, depending on one's viewpoint, in the Saxatiles Section of the genus. It has the same coloring as T. bakeri, typically a nice bright pink with a prominent yellow center. This species is dwarfer than bakeri, growing 4 - 6" (10 - 15 cm) tall, with upright starry flowers. The leaves are more refined, being small, linear, and grayish. According to some authors, T. humilis subsumes such species as aucheriana, pulchella, and violacea, but recent botanical works have recognized each as valid species. Bulbs of T. humilis and many of it's varieties are often available inexpensively. 6a. Tulipa humilis 'Albo Coerulea Oculata' (correctly T. violacea var. pallida) It is here among the variable humilis group of allied species, that we have the famous T. humilis 'Albo Coerulea Oculata', a gorgeous thing with open, starry white flowers sporting steel blue centers. It's "to die for". About 3 - 4" in bloom (7.5 - 10 cm). This plant is found under a bewildering array of synonyms and variant names. To the best of my knowledge, it is correctly identified as Tulipa violacea var. pallida. But also look for it as T. pulchella albocoerulea oculata, T. pulchella caerulea, T. humilis alba caerulea, and many other name permutations! The bulbs, when obtainable, cost about $5 - $8 U.S. each! Check the links posted on my Dwarf Tulipa gallery for a couple bulb sources for this beauty. Splurge and get 5-6 bulbs; it's worth the investment. Some photo links are listed below. 7. Tulipa stellata ssp. chrysantha Inexpensively available where better selections of Holland bulbs are sold, this brilliant species is usually labeled simply as T. chrysantha. It's also been considered a variety of T. clusiana, and listed as T. clusiana var. chrysantha, sometimes offered for sale under that name. It's a charming dwarf species with neat basal foliage that is small, narrow and trim, with tightly held buds which in low light show the cinnabar red backs of the petals, metamorphosing into surprisingly large, flat, starry blooms of pure yellow after a couple hours of strong sunshine. It pairs nicely with the electric red T. linifolia. Both this species and T. linifolia are in the Clusianae section of Tulipa. 8. Tulipa linifolia I particularly like the fullness of the blooms on this species, rendering a nearly circular or rotate flower profile when fully opened on warm sunny days. The broad petals reflex backwards, abruptly contracted into a fine point, giving a most distinctive appearance. The flowers, on 4 - 5" (10 - 12.5 cm) stems, have a satiny, light-reflective sheen, and a jet black center to each flower. Flowers in April the same time as T. stellata ssp. chrysantha. Tulipa species & cultivars I want to grow: ============================= There are a large number of desirable dwarf tulipa for the rock garden. It would be tedious to list them all, but here are some that are on my mind: a. T. celsiana - low or prostrate glossy green leaves, and lots of starry yellow flowers, stained red on the outside. The Van Tubergen link below has a good color photo. 10 - 15 cm. b. T. clusiana cultivars - this species is the namesake for the Clusianae section of Tulipa, famous as the 'Lady Tulip'. All varieties are charming, the basic theme being white, cream, yellow, or pinkish flowers, strongly banded with crimson on the exterior. Most varieties grow 8 - 12" (20 - 30 cm). c. T. dasystemon - the true plant is hard to come by. This species, allied to T. tarda, is usually misidentified in cultivation and usurped by T. tarda itself. The true species has blue-green leaves and bright yellow flowers, without the white tips as in T. tarda. About 4" tall (10 cm). d. T. kurdica - here you have an extremely dwarf species, with very narrow straps of foliage and nearly stemless cranberry red flowers sitting nearly stemless. e. T. 'Little Beauty' - a great looking miniature with small, moody, red-purplish-tinted cups. Only 4" (10 cm) tall. There is a very good photo of on the Van Tubegen web site... see link below. f. T. montana (syn. T. wilsoniana) - a small refined species with show-stopping chalice-shaped red-orange flowers on mere 4" - 6" stems (10 - 15 cm). g. T. schrenkii - growing 3" - 4" tall (7.5 - 10 cm), with scarlet flowers and an orange margin. h. T. sylvestris - stoloniferously increasing species with semi-nodding starry flowers of golden yellow, tinged greenish on the exterior. Said to be strongly fragrant. Looks to be a delightful species; see the Van Tubergen link below. i. T. turkestanica - (syn. bifloriformis Vved.) - The photo on the Van Tubergen web site (see link below) shows a most graceful and desirable species, with cream-white flowers with yellow-orange centers. The reflexed and nodding flowers have a strong resemblance to an Erythronium species. Grows 8 - 12" (20 - 30 cm). j. T. vvedenskyi - There are several named forms of this species. Has the appearance of a "classic tulip" in form, but smaller, and growing 8" - 12" tall (20 - 30 cm) with bright orange and yellow flowers. *************** I'm only just getting started with Tulipa species. Please share with us your favorites. Are Tulipa species short-lived in your experience, as the books say, or are they more permanent than generally credited? Know of any good taxonomic references for the genus? *************** Selected Dwarf Tulipa - Internet links. (in no particular order) ========================== Van Tubergen Bulb company http://www.vantubergen.co.uk/vtub/dept.asp?dept_id=55 (Good images of such species as T. celsiana, turkestanica, 'Little Beauty', "clusiana chrysantha", sylvestris, and others) http://www.hoogdix.com Click on: descriptive catalog > click on Tulipa (large and informative listing of Tulipa species and cultivars) Paul Christian http://rareplants.co.uk/tulipa BulbMeister.com http://www.bulbmeister.com/flowershop/fpl2003/page10.html The National Tulip Collection at the Cambridge University Botanic Garden http://www.botanic.cam.ac.uk/Tulipa.html Tulipa "bifloriformis" ( = turkestanica) http://www.gartendatenbank.de/pflanzen/tulipa/a009.htm Pacific Rim native Plant Nursery http://www.hillkeep.ca/bulbs%20tulipa.htm Odyssey Bulbs http://www.odysseybulbs.com/scillatoveltheimia.html John Lonsdale's Edgewood Gardens John Lonsdale has some very good images of selected Tulipa species. http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/Plant%20Galleries/album.asp?cat=Liliaceae\Tulip a Tulipa kurdica - a very dwarf red-flowered species http://www.alpinegardensociety.org/shows/results/shows2003/shows/KENT/images/T revor_Jones/sizedMVC-007S.JPG.html Tulipa humilis alba caerulea (= T. violacea var. pallida) Good close-up photograph by: Cliff Booker Posted: 26.04.03, 23:46:52 http://home.no.net/alpenpix/board/board.php?action=read&id_board=030426234652 Beautiful view of Tulipa humilis 'Alba Caerulea Oculata' ( = T. violacea var. pallida) Pacific Rim Native Plant Nursery http://www.hillkeep.ca/bulbs%20tulipa.htm http://www.hillkeep.ca/images/Tulipa_humilis_Alba_Caerulea_Oculatax_c_Hans_Roe mer.jpg Small thumbnail sized images of Tulipa species and other bulbs available at: http://www.botanicus.nu/index.php?menu=007 The Reticulata Iris guy, Alan McMurtrie, Ontario CA, has some nice Tulipa photos: http://www.reticulatas.com/HardyBulbs/index.html http://www.reticulatas.com/HardyBulbs/Tulip-1.html http://www.reticulatas.com/HardyBulbs/Tulip-2.html http://www.reticulatas.com/HardyBulbs/Tulip-3.html http://www.reticulatas.com/HardyBulbs/Tulip-4.html article on tulipa species http://www.canoe.ca/HGGardening_PlantGardenPlants/oct01_tulipa1.html tulipa gallery (in German, but some nice photos) http://www.gartendatenbank.de/pflanzen/tulipa/index.htm Nursery source: Fraser's Thimble Farms, BC Canada http://www.thimblefarms.com/sbulb6.html Dwarf Bulbs, by Brian Mathew, 1973 - contains a brief but most useful enumeration of species. There are several other excellent books by Brian Mathew covering Tulipa. The Random House of Bulbs, by Roger Phillips & Martyn Rix, 1989 - an indispensable photographic guide to bulbs of all sorts, but of course, a good selection of Tulipa. Czechoslovakian Tulipa species study - includes a few pages in English and botanical latin names; representing a recent partial taxonomic summary of species, synonyms, and Sections of related species. The link is to a PDF file. http://genbank.vurv.cz/genetic/resources/documents/Tulipa.pdf Last but not least, here are some links to the Pacific Bulb Society and their Tulipa section. The PBS, our February topic-of-the-week companion, has amassed an extensive photo library of bulbs that is surely one of the best on the web. The activities of the PBS group is directed by the indefatigable Mary Sue Ittner, a bulb aficionado par excellence. The first link is to the PBS homepage, the second link to an alphabetical table of bulb genera in the photo library, and the third link is to the Tulipa page, where there are some great Tulipa photos. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HomePage http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/PhotographsAndInformation http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tulipa Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com < From msittner@mcn.org Sat Feb 21 10:59:03 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040221073608.018c6c70@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Mystery Romulea Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 07:58:26 -0800 Dear Tony, Thanks for adding your picture to the wiki. It does indeed look like mine. Is it blooming right now? Brian Mathew in his book, The Smaller Bulbs, states: "The characteristic features (of R. bulbocodium) are that the stigma overtops the stamens considerably and that the inner of the two bracts is a papery brown, not green." My flowers don't fulfill either of these. Do yours? It's hard to tell from the angle of your picture. The picture I added to the wiki of the R. bulbocodium I got from Jane shows the stigma overtopping the stamens. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Romulea/Romulea_bulbocodium.jpg But perhaps these features aren't considered important any more? This book was written in 1987 and the thinking could be really different now. Do any of you have a Flora of Europe that might help me figure out what I should be looking for? I suppose it could be a hybrid and all bets are off. As you say it does grow well. Here's what Mathew says about Romulea bulbocodium which sounds a bit like your picture: "The flowers are white or very pale lilac, 1.0-1.5cm long with a pointed perianth segments. The inner bract is membraneous, spotted brown, and the style is overtopped by the stamens." How big is your flower and what are the bracts like? He also says, "R. rollii is very similar and differs mainly in having very long thread-like leaves up to 30 cm. long." Mary Sue From brian.whyer@which.net Sat Feb 21 11:59:19 2004 Message-Id: <001c01c3f89c$09254550$90932bd9@2CVEVE1> From: "Brian Whyer" Subject: Dwarf Tulipa-PBS and Alpine Topic of the Week Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:59:13 -0000 Tulipa sprengeri was in a paved area "feature pot" on the AGS Chelsea Flower Show stand last May. It was lusted after by many visitors, and a very useful tulip, a) because it flowers late enough to be at the ChelseaFS and b) the AGS was able to sell packets of seed. Hunting around to find some last summer, I was told by 1 nursery it is mainly a rarity because its late season results in the Dutch not showing any interest in mass production. Another alpine nursery I visited had a hundred or more in bloom at the back of a raised rock bed. VERY impressive. I eventually acquired some bulbs and seed, both of which are starting to show above the soil this week. I have grown several of the usual urumiensis, tarda, batalinii, linifolia, vvedenskyi types and montana/wilsoniana/schimganica, I have had all names at times, in pots, but in the garden, T. saxatilis/bakeri lilac wonder is the only dwarf, and it spreads around widely by stolons and pops up amongst other plants. Definitely not for a small rockery with special alpines in. I think this link shows it in its best setting http://www.gartendatenbank.de/pflanzen/tulipa/img/014.jpg Brian Whyer, zone 8'ish, Buckinghamshire, England From brian.whyer@which.net Sat Feb 21 12:25:13 2004 Message-Id: <002301c3f89f$a71b2b50$90932bd9@2CVEVE1> From: "Brian Whyer" Subject: Mandragora officinarum Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:25:06 -0000 Can someone tell me if Mandragora officinarum is self fertile. Should I be out there in the cold tickling it to help it along. It has looked like this link http://pharm1.pharmazie.uni-greifswald.de/allgemei/serturn/arzpfl-b/mand ra-o.jpg for some weeks and has several flowers to "open" yet. It reminds me of Audrey2 in the film Little Shop of Horrors, but I have not heard it scream yet. Brian Whyer, zone 8'ish, Buckinghamshire, England From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Sat Feb 21 14:28:21 2004 Message-Id: <000201c3f8b0$dae26af0$33de403e@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Mandragora officinarum Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:48:39 -0000 Mandragora officinarum is self-fertile - at least my solitary plant sets a good crop of fat fruits each year. I assume the bees do the job of pollination. How to get the seed to germinate is another matter! John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Gardens Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP UK Z7/8 Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Whyer" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 5:25 PM Subject: [pbs] Mandragora officinarum > Can someone tell me if Mandragora officinarum is self fertile. From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sat Feb 21 13:15:44 2004 Message-Id: <159.2e5393ff.2d68fa42@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Scilla lutea Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:15:30 EST Hi, I was fortunate to receive a small start of this plant from an email gardening friend. There is a small bulb that looks like it grows above ground, a few roots, and a few small green leaves (1-2 inches). I am wondering what it really is because when I look it up I get 2 or 3 possibilities, depending upon what synonyms I follow. Can anyone offer insight on Scilla lutea? Cordially, Joe (zone 9, Houston, sunny, no rain, mild temperatures this week) From peter.maynard@btinternet.com Sat Feb 21 15:47:43 2004 Message-Id: <008201c3f8bb$f023d9c0$0302a8c0@IRIS> From: "Peter Maynard" Subject: Mandragora officinarum Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 20:47:33 -0000 Brian, I have grown the blue form of Mandragora off. for many years in a cold frame here but have never seen a seed pod; the green one sets seed sporadically on a raised bed in the open There is only one plant in both cases so one form at least is self fertile. By the way if you want to try the more desirable blue form let me know. Peter.Maynard@btinternet.com S.E. England Zone 8 Coastal Plain natales grate numeras. From hamish.sloan@virgin.net Sat Feb 21 16:53:42 2004 Message-Id: <010b01c3f8c5$24085f00$c2070cc3@Douglasdale> From: "Hamish Sloan" Subject: Slow release fertilizers Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 21:38:49 -0000 Hello Mary Sue, It may be that the coating in Nutricote is a polymer or resin which either 1. does not break down under your soil/temperature/water/etc conditions - hence the unchanged physical appearance; the fertilizer is leacheed out by water going into the pellet through the pores in the polymer coat and solution comes out again. I would still expect some temperature effects on usage rate. or 2. does break down but very slowly. Thus your fertilizer is a very long lasting source that just happens to be much longer than a season. Possibly, too, the pellets are a mix of stabilities to give a proportion releasing fertilizer at any one time over a long period. My info on the latest version of Osmocote mentions a resin coating that "protects young roots from scorching" and claims that release rates are not affected by water availability. Another source says Osmocote has an organic resin coating and fertilizer is released by water diffusing through the coating, dissolving fertilizer and solution diffusing out. Soil temperature is indicated as affecting the release rate - scientifically, one would expect faster diffusion and faster solution at higher temperatures. This info is from two very recent trade catalogues and they both emphasise "new formulation" of the Osmocote as if the coating has been changed recently. I have not used such long life fertilizers. When fertilizing bulbs coming into flower with straight soluble fertilizer, I have noted effects adversely affecting completion of the flowering stage, e.g. collapse of the scape in Nerine. Lower concentrations give fewer affected scapes. However, this collapse may be due to other reasons. My observations so far are very limited and this is just my current hypothesis. It seems to be a matter of not too much and not too little as well as proportions. I prefer Phostrogen, with its higher ratio of K to N, rather than Miracle Gro. Sorry about all the big technical words!! Jim S mentioned excessive phosphate build up in clay soils binding the iron. This reminds me of the old chrysanthemum growers' trick that I used to use of throwing a handful of iron filings into the compost mix. Any old iron will do! If you have a model engineering society near you, its members will probably be delighted to help. It's called re-cycling! Regards Hamish Wettish zone 9 Central south of England ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Sue Ittner" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 3:23 PM Subject: RE: [pbs] Slow release fertilizers > Dear Kathy, > > A number of people in the past have reported losing their bulbs from > Osmocote dumping too much at once. Uli had some horror stories about his > Hippeastrums and I think Diana Chapman reported some sad results too, but > she can report that herself. Uli is currently off line. There is a time > release fertilizer called nutricote that isn't supposed to be temperature > sensitive. I've tried that since I live in an area with excessive rainfall >.... I know a number of people who swear by dilute miracle gro with every > watering. Will Ashburner who was a participant in the IBS forum in the past > said something that has stuck in my brain. He suspected getting your medium > correct was more important than what kind of fertilizer you used. He > stressed a medium with the correct air filled porosity. > > I hope this helps. > > Mary Sue From robin@rpattrill.freeserve.co.uk Sat Feb 21 17:08:59 2004 Message-Id: <003201c3f8c7$4cf411f0$04614e51@ibmcatwpkh6omz> From: "Robin Attrill" Subject: Mystery Romulea Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:08:55 -0000 Mary Sue, The large dark violet-flowered european Romuleas tend to be listed as R. bulbocodium variants - the 'Knightshayes' form is an example - but I'm not sure if this is where they truly belong. Many of the dark flowered palnts in cultivation have short styles. The taxonomy is a mess! I am not aware of a truly comprehensive key - the listings in Flora Europaea do not include all the north African and middle-eastern taxa and are consequently of limited use unless one is sure the plant is of european provenance. This overall situation results in names often being assigned in a somewhat arbitrary fashion, hence the names on packets of seed from exchanges etc should be viewed with circumspect. The plant illustrated from Tony Goode looks like R. columnae to me, although I have no experience with R. rollii. regards Robin From msittner@mcn.org Sat Feb 21 23:27:04 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040221202522.01a15cb0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Dwarf Tulipa-PBS and Alpine Topic of the Week Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 20:25:52 -0800 Dwarf tulip species are the subjects of several Plants of the Month of the NARGS Web Site. Tulipa tarda http://www.nargs.org/potm/potm_apr97.html Tulipa schrenkii http://www.nargs.org/potm/potm_oct99.html Tulipa vvedenskyi http://www.nargs.org/potm/potm_apr02.html Note that the first two letters of "vvedenskyi" are "v"s, even though together they look like a "w"! Tulipa batalanii http://www.nargs.org/potm/potm_oct03.html Iza Goroff Whitewater Wisconsin USA zone 4b From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Feb 22 10:23:44 2004 Message-Id: <4038C97E.3060306@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: hippeastrum hybrid Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:23:42 -0500 Flowering today. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Hippeastrum_hybrid_3.JPG Arnold New Jersey From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Sun Feb 22 11:34:26 2004 Message-Id: <4038DA7C.9050206@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Feeding Bulbs. Was Re: [pbs] Slow release fertilizers Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:36:12 -0600 A quick comment in reply to some statements made by Jim, quoted after. This is only a comment, not promoted to be accepted as fact, but to be considered in relation to the findings in "The Growth of Bulbs". I would believe that fertilizer balance would be very different for large scale bulb production compared to growing bulbs for bloom. It makes sense that the findings would show heavier Nitrogen regimen, because the producers are trying to increase bulb size and/or division. This idea may not apply to those growing to produce a fine flower head. Phosphorus is important for encouraging bloom. If this has already been discussed, my apologies. I'm behind and have not read through everything. J.E. Shields wrote: > Hi Kathy and all, > > Bulb food is a fascinating topic, but let me second the comments of > Alberto. > > Those findings dealt mainly with Narcissus, Tulip, and a few other > varieties of bulbs that are produced commercially in huge quantities. > We have to extrapolate from those to other bulbs. > In all cases the bulbs need relatively large amounts of nitrogen (N) > and potassium (K) and relatively little phosphorus (P). -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-366-4968 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Sun Feb 22 11:47:48 2004 Message-Id: <4038DDA0.5000106@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Slow release fertilizers Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:49:36 -0600 Some tips for most successful use of slow release fertilizers with bulbs. 1. Release times are more in tune with those stated on the label if you incorporate the fertilizer in the mix as opposed to top dressing. 2. Choose one with a higher Phophorus lower Nitrogen ratio. They are harder to find but do exist. 3. Choose one which includes at least Iron as a minor nutrient. 4. Consider a lighter application if your N-P ratio is the same, but you will be losing some benefits of P. 5. As Jim S. has suggested, you are probably wasting fertilizer during dormancy period, maybe even encouraging rot if you can't keep your pots dry during the period, so you might choose one that is labeled to disperse the fertilizer completely by the end of the growth cycle. You can usually find these fertilizers labeled for 3, 6, 9, and 12 month dispersal. NOTE: I generally ignore this one in my practices, choosing the 9 or 12 month, because I believe I can avoid overfertilization more successfully due to the improved coatings on these slow release types. I seem to recall some company(ie)'s claim(s) that their slow release is not affected by temperature. If I find the information, I will post it (don't hold your breath, though). Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Dear Kathy, > > A number of people in the past have reported losing their bulbs from > Osmocote dumping too much at once. -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-366-4968 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From c-mueller@tamu.edu Sun Feb 22 11:53:34 2004 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: hippeastrum hybrid Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:53:07 -0600 Arnold: Enjoyed seeing your hipp hybrid. The color in the image seemed to be very strong - what was the parentage? Cynthia M. >>> arnold@nj.rr.com 02/22/04 09:23AM >>> Flowering today. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Hippeastrum_hybrid_3.JPG Arnold New Jersey _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Feb 22 12:06:48 2004 Message-Id: <4038E1A0.2010007@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: hippeastrum hybrid Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:06:40 -0500 Cynthia: Sorry to say I have no idea about the parentage of the hippeastrum. As I had said it probably was a gift from a neighbor who had no idea what to do after the bloom had faded last year. Arnold From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Sun Feb 22 13:30:51 2004 Message-Id: <001e01c3f971$d884ac20$2689eb50@TheAfricanGarden> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Contact details needed Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:27:57 -0000 Dear List, I'm following up some information I have and to aid my bulb research I need contact details for : Enno Oudshoorn of Toulon, France. Can anyone please help me. Please reply to: crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Many thanks, Dave (Plymouth, UK) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.577 / Virus Database: 366 - Release Date: 03/02/04 From boutin@goldrush.com Sun Feb 22 17:09:12 2004 Message-Id: <00cc01c3f990$4c33b5d0$a53d7143@boutin> From: "boutin" Subject: Scilla lutea Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:07:43 -0800 The plant which I purchased with the name of Scilla lutea from Aridlands Greenhouses is a Ledebouria. The question on my plant is Ledebouria what? My guess is that it is a form of L. socialis with leaves pale gray-green with green spots and blotches and no red-violet anywhere. Also the leaf blades hug the top of the round bulb closely, where as in most forms of L socialis the leaf blades are separated from the tops of the bulbs by petiole-like narrow portion. Fred (zone 7, California Sierra foothills, rainy and cold) - > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From msittner@mcn.org Mon Feb 23 00:28:45 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040222194235.00e046e0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Dwarf Tulipa-PBS and Alpine Topic of the Week Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:24:54 -0800 Dear All, I really enjoyed Mark's introduction to this week's topic with all those great web sites with pictures of tulips I love and some I have never heard of. Like Jim McKenny I am fond of tulips of many sizes. Back before I was addicted to bulbs someone gave me tulips as a wedding present. The ones I planted in the ground only bloomed well the first year and may have sent up a bloom or two the second year before they went to bulb heaven, but I have always grown some in containers since. My infatuation with hybrid Gladiolus diminished when I started growing species and the same for florist's Cyclamen which now seem to have flowers that are much too big, but I still love some of the big tulips. But this is about the dwarf tulips and I am fond of them as well. I have tried planting a lot of them in the ground here in Northern California and sometimes they surprise me with a returning bloom, but even the ones that are supposed to do well in the ground in California haven't for me. So when the leaves die back I dump them out of their containers, save the larger bulbs, store them in a paper bag in a warm spot (upstairs in my non air conditioned house), and then put them in the refrigerator for 4-6 weeks late October or November and plant them again in containers in December. Whether all of them really need chilling I don't know. It just seems easier to treat them all the same. So which have worked this way? The very best has been Tulipa batalinii. I have ordered some 'Bright Gem' and some that were supposed to be red I think and maybe some 'Bronze Charm', but they have always looked the same color to me which may just have to do with the source. Tulipa linifolia has also been a good performer. One year I got some of them mixed in one of my T. batalinii pots. At first I was quite distressed, but it ended up that just extended the period of bloom in that container. Tulipa linifolia planted at the same time as T. batalinii always comes up weeks to a month earlier and blooms earlier as well. I was able to separate them in dormancy for the most part since the bulbs were slightly different. I rather like thinking of them as separate species if they are going to look and behave so differently. When you grow something from seed or buy something it is nice to have a good idea of what it is going to look like. I've grown Tulipa tarda in the past, but for some reason I can't remember eventually tossed it. Or was it Tulipa kaufmanniana? Whatever I think it wasn't a very good performer. Last year I succumbed to a low priced package of five different Tulipa species at Orchard Supply. They were so cheap I didn't feel I could lose. Tulipa tarda was in that package and it didn't bloom. I've replanted the bulbs so they will get one more chance. In that same packet was Tulipa turkestanica. I used to grow it when I lived inland and I really liked it, but here on the coast my bulbs dwindled and eventually stopped blooming. These last year were quite charming so it will be interesting to see if they decline again. Tulipa bakeri 'Lilac Wonder' is another very satisfactory Tulipa. I have planted this in the ground hoping it might come back and occasionally see it returning, but it does much better for me in containers using my usual method. Funny, but I've never found its foliage "chubby." I'll have to look at it this year more closely. I now am growing Tulipa clusiana which I purchased from Lauw. Before I had purchased some from a catalog that turned out to be one of the cultivar forms instead. At first I was very disappointed, but the cultivar is a very beautiful thing that has bloomed for me every year since so I don't mind. The species is really charming however so I like them both. I also grow what I had under the name of Tulipa clusiana var chrysantha. This one returned for me for a number of years in the ground in Stockton where it came up in my "rock garden". Here on the coast it tends to split into smaller bulbs a lot and only a few bloom the following year. Tulipa vvedenskyi is a charmer with silvery wavy edged foliage and large orange-red flowers. It seems to be a good repeater. I just added a picture of it to the wiki from last year that I never got around to adding at the time it bloomed. I think the foliage is really cool and the flowers are surprisingly big. I have also grown Tulipa praestans for years from an original purchase of a variety 'Fusilier' which was supposed to produce many flowers per stem. If it did the first year I can't remember. It never has since. That I am sure of. After blooming in great profusion three or four years ago it hasn't bloomed since, but the bulbs last year seemed bigger in dormancy so I am keeping my fingers crossed that this year they will bloom again. My memory of these bright red flowers was that were really beautiful. Tulipa orphanidea I purchased from an unnamed source were tiny bulbs and did not bloom after several years so I passed them on to the BX hoping someone else would have better luck. I looked at the web sites of three of the members of this list: BulbMeister.com http://www.bulbmeister.com/flowershop/fpl2003/page10.html Pacific Rim native Plant Nursery http://www.hillkeep.ca/bulbs%20tulipa.htm Odyssey Bulbs http://www.odysseybulbs.com/scillatoveltheimia.html and there were some tulips listed I have not grown and am interested in. So my question to Russell, Kelly, and Paige is can you tell us which of the species bulbs you sell do best in different climates. I am especially interested in ones that I might be able to grow, bloom, and get to bloom in subsequent years in Northern California even if I have to grow them in containers and give them an extended cooling period each year. Have your customers in different areas given you any feedback about which ones do the best for them? My attempts at growing these from seed exchanges have not been very successful although I have some T. clusiana from my own seed coming along. I have wanted to have enough of it to plant in the ground since it is supposed to be one that will bloom in the ground in California. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From jshields104@insightbb.com Mon Feb 23 09:46:07 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040223094019.00b08080@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Metric Conversions Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:45:57 -0500 Sometime ago, Mark Mazur passed along a handy web page for converting Fahrenheit and Celsius temperatures back and forth. I've since added some other Metric-English units, and you can find this enlarged page at: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/MetricConversion.html I may eventually add some more conversions to this page. I trust this will be of some use to a few folks. Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) where we use neither metric nor imperial units, but "English" (i.e., US) units, and where a gallon is not always a gallon nor a ton a ton ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Mon Feb 23 10:37:30 2004 Message-Id: <1c5.14e29fe1.2d6b782c@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Metric Conversions Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:37:16 EST Google has a calculator function that does the conversions right from the search box. For example, type in 1 mile=, hit search/enter and it will convert to kilometers. Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From jimmckenney@starpower.net Mon Feb 23 10:37:49 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040223103725.0085b5f0@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Dwarf Tulipa-PBS and Alpine Topic of the Week Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:37:25 -0500 Mary Sue mentioned Tulipa praestans in her recent post. This species (in particular the cultivar Fusilier) has been a very good doer in my Maryland garden. It does not spread, and it clumps only slowly, but it persists and blooms annually without being dug for the summer. I've had the cultivars Fusilier and Zwanenburg: they are different enough to make both worth having. Mark and Mary Sue both mentioned Tulipa batalinii. This persists for awhile in the garden but eventually disappears if not dug. Here's another thought about this plant: Mark mentioned that Rix makes this a form of T. maximowiczii (the name is spelled both maximowiczii and maximoviczii in the Rix/Phillips The Bulb Book and in Anna Pavord's The Tulip - how's that for covering your bases?), whereas others make it a form of T. linifolia. It occurred to me that both may be right. What I mean is this: maybe the Tulipa batalinii of horticulture is polyphyletic. TT. linifolia, maximowiczii, montana, wilsoniana all probably have yellow variants and telling them apart in cultivation (i.e. without reference to their populations in nature) would be tricky. Mary Sue's comments about the differing behavior of her stocks of T. batalinii and T. linifolia are intriguing. Spring here is so condensed and fast that I've never noticed such a pronounced difference, but commercial T. linifolia is a bit earlier than commercial T. batalinii. Are they different species or are we just seeing the two ends of a convoluted rope? Tulipa bakeri Lilac Wonder was also mentioned. When I was starting out in tulips, this was not available. What was available was Tulipa saxatilis. Tulipa saxatilis puts up foliage in the fall; the foliage is severely damaged in a typical winter. As a result, I grew this species (by replacing it frequently) for years without ever seeing it flower. Once, some bulbs planted near the house wall produced one small flowering plant - and it was gone almost before I got a good look at it. When Lilac Wonder became available, I was dubious: wasn't it just another saxatilis variant under a new name? Was there any reason to think that it might do better here? Several people have since told me that it does do fairly well in this area. I'm still a doubter, but I do have some plants now. Has anyone else on the east coast had long term success with this outside? Jim Waddick mentioned Tulipa sprengeri. I grew this from seed; it bloomed in four years as I recall. Rather than spreading, it then disappeared. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, zone 7, where winter aconites are blooming in the neighborhood but not yet in this garden; early snowdrops are finally opening; and foliage of Arum dioscoridis, which looked fine after the big thaw, went to paper shreds in a subsequent milder freeze. From msittner@mcn.org Mon Feb 23 10:42:38 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040222221605.00dfea70@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Growing bulbs out of synch Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 07:41:59 -0800 Dear Jim, We had a topic of the week in October where we discussed a little some of the bulbs that people had managed to convert to growing in a cycle that is different from their normal cycle in their native habitat. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2003-October/subject.htm will find some of those posts. Except for the Ornithogalums many of the other South African genera you mentioned: Freesia, Babiana, Sparaxis, Ixia, Homeria are irids with corms that are mostly from the winter rainfall areas of South Africa. They start to sprout when the temperatures get cooler in the fall and grow during the rainy winters, flower in spring and then die down as soon as the temperatures get hot. When you buy them from Holland and plant them in the spring they often do not grow long enough before the temperatures get warm to produce the size of corm they need to flower the next year. Perhaps the people who sell these hope you'll just treat them like annuals and enjoy them once and buy them again the following year. One year Diana Chapman wrote advice for many of us who were trying to turn around some bulbs in the Northern Hemisphere we had received from Bill Dijk in New Zealand. Her advice was very helpful as well as being hilarious and she told us to grow the plants in the coolest spot we could and if the nights were warm to put them in the refrigerator at night and take them out in the morning. I don't know if you could keep yours going longer that way. It does seem like a lot of trouble and wouldn't work for things like Homeria which can get tall. I found in turning around some of the South African corms I did better to keep them warm until fall and plant them then instead of trying to plant them late spring -- early summer and hope to get enough growth out of them to produce a good sized corm to survive dormancy. I found the critical factor was temperature and I think that is what Lauw was referring to. We may not be able to control temperatures in the same way as the Dutch can do. But if you were to try to replicate what they do, you'd want to keep those Irids growing as long as you could (not exactly easy since most want sunshine to do well) and then when they went dormant keep them dry and warm as long as possible so they would not think it was fall and time to start growing again. Alan Horstmann in South Africa was going to try to experiment with something like this with some of his plants that look a bit the worse for wear after a long period of rain. In their normal habitat they would have much less rain. So he was going to try to keep them dry longer and start them later. I was interested in this because I have the same problem with some of the same things. The Ixia leaves of many I grow look terrible by the time they bloom in May. Until you try some of these things you can't really know however which is something Tony Avent seems to be finding out. I have found some of the Namaqualand species I grow (they may get a couple of inches of rain in the winter growing season compared to my average of 50-60 inches) adjust quite happily to my surprise. Others really do need to be sheltered from the rain. I hope this helps. Mary Sue From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Mon Feb 23 11:03:11 2004 Message-Id: From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Nivenia and frost Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:03:06 EST For those interested, N. stokoei survived the recent below freezing temperatures in the greenhouse whilst the N. binata next to it did not. Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From angelopalm69@inwind.it Mon Feb 23 14:41:37 2004 Message-Id: <001701c3fa44$9d06e220$4db0623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Metric conversions Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:37:53 +0100 Jim, that's a useful link indeed. I am so used to Fahrenheit/Celsius conversion at a point I read indifferently both. But what drives me in the dark is something like 'plant it in a 3 gallon pot'. I have never understood how big is a 3 gallon pot and its diameter. Also British gallon is different from US one. If you need I can forward you a table with size of pot in cm and its volume in liters, as used in nursery trade here. Angelo From jshields104@insightbb.com Mon Feb 23 17:55:35 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040223151538.00b131e8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Metric conversions Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:17:54 -0500 Angelo, That sounds like a good idea! If you will send me the table of nursery container sizes as used in Europe, I'll construct a similar table for the U.S. usage. I'll also put a pair of Gallons-to-Liters converters for US and for British gallons on the same page. Jim At 08:37 PM 2/23/2004 +0100, you wrote: >Jim, > >that's a useful link indeed. I am so used to Fahrenheit/Celsius conversion >at a point I read indifferently both. But what drives me in the dark is >something like 'plant it in a 3 gallon pot'. I have never understood how >big is a 3 gallon pot and its diameter. Also British gallon is different >from US one. If you need I can forward you a table with size of pot in cm >and its volume in liters, as used in nursery trade here. > >Angelo > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Feb 23 15:37:02 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040223123256.00ba64b8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: New photos and questions Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:36:52 -0800 I have posted several photos on the wiki and have some questions about the plants that I hope more experienced growers can answer. One narcissus: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Narcissus_cuatrecasasii_segimonensis.jpg I would appreciate opinions on the identity of these plants, which are close but not exactly matching the description. Three fritillarias: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Fritillaria_eduardii.jpg No questions about that one but I like the photo. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Fritillaria_latifolia.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Fritillaria_tubiformis,jpg As noted in the Information page, I think the "F. latifolia" must be a hybrid with F. tubiformis because of the glaucous leaves. The slightly deformed flower may result from frost damage while developing, or from the fact that this seedling is flowering for the first time, or from the fact that it is a hybrid. The plants of F. tubiformis appear to be correctly named but note that I got a mixture of color forms from cultivated seed. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Mon Feb 23 16:09:00 2004 Message-Id: <001201c3fa51$192a3f80$2689eb50@TheAfricanGarden> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Contact Details Needed Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:07:00 -0000 Dear All, Re. Contact Details Needed Details have been supplied. Thank you. Best Wishes, Dave --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.577 / Virus Database: 366 - Release Date: 03/02/04 From msittner@mcn.org Tue Feb 24 13:14:41 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040224101222.038717c0@mail.mcn.org> From: "Ernie O'Byrne" (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Chen Yi whereabouts Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:13:21 -0800 Has anyone on the list had recent contact with Chen Yi? I have not received a reply at the following address after several tries: chenyi@public.netchina.com.cn Sorry for the cross-posting. Ernie O'Byrne Northwest Garden Nursery 86813 Central Road Eugene ORegon 97402-9284 USA USDA Zone 8a officially, but really Z. 7b Phone: 541 935-3915 FAX: 541 935-0863 From jimmckenney@starpower.net Tue Feb 24 14:41:53 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040224144124.0083ad70@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Prelude to the afternoon of the snowdrops Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 14:41:24 -0500 The following was written in jest. For those of you who do not speak gardener's Greek fluently, a glossary is provided at the conclusion. It helps to know what words mean. Here's a little story, a sort of snowdrops for dummies story, with yours-truly as the butt of the joke. From some recent postings I've realized that I obviously don't know what Galanthus caucasicus is, that I've probably been using the term incorrectly. Our local chapter of the ARGS runs a yearly piece on plants blooming on New Year's Day. Several members reported something called Galanthus elwesii monostictus. I had never heard of Galanthus elwesii monostictus. The editor kindly included in parentheses the synonym Galanthus caucasicus. Then it hit me: monostictus means one-spotted. If you've been growing snowdrops as long as I have, you'll remember the days when one of the first things you learned was that Galanthus elwesii is distinguished by the two spots or the fused spots on the inner perianth segments. Obviously the concept of Galanthus elwesii has been revamped (and evidently by a horticulturist or a botanist with strong horticultural ties): in addition to the traditional two spotted forms, there are now monostictus or one-spotted forms. And some of these monostictus forms are aparently my old pal Galanthus caucasicus. Live and learn - and get used to the red facial flush! With this in mind, I ran out into the garden to check the spotting on my Galanthus elwesii. Many have yet to bloom, so I thought I had best be prepared. I have labels ready for the following should they appear: monostictus, distictus, tristictus, tetrastictus, pentastictus, hexastictus, hebdostictus, myriostictus, polystictus, hemistictus, astictus, leucostictus (often confused with astictus but they really are quite distinct), chrysostictus, chlorostictus, macrostictus, microstictus, eustictus, pseudostictus, and my favorite, the rare Out!damnedstictus!. The glossary: monostictus: one-spotted distictus: two-spotted tristictus: three-spotted tetrastictus: four-spotted pentastictus: five-spotted hexastictus: six-spotted hebdostictus: seven-spotted polystictus: many-spotted myriostictus: thousand-spotted hemistictus: partly spotted astictus: lacking spots leucostictus: white-spotted chrysostictus: golden-spotted chlorostictus: green-spotted macrostictus: large-spotted microstictus: small-spotted eustictus: well-spotted pseudostictus: not really spotted Out!damnedstictus! : Lady Macbeth's red-spotted snowdrop Jim McKenney jimmckeney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland zone 7, where we're having a spot of what the local weatherpeople call wintery mix. From jshields104@insightbb.com Tue Feb 24 15:26:59 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040224152106.029dcd70@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Nursery contains or Flower pot sizes Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 15:26:57 -0500 Angelo's comments inspired me to determine some actual volumes, since I've been wondering about this for literally years. My preliminary results are at: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/FlowerPots.html I simply took some average-looking standard clay flower pots and measured the inside diameters and height, then calculated the volumes. As I recall, for a truncated cone the formula is: V = pi X (r1 + r2) X (r1 + r2) X ht / 4 A 6-inch pot holds a little under 1/2 gallon (US), a 7 inch pot holds a little over that. Regards, Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From hkoopowi@uci.edu Tue Feb 24 15:32:39 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.2.20040224123229.01f9caf8@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: New photos and questions Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:33:09 -0800 Jane: Your cuatrecasasii looks like rupicola to me. Harold At 12:36 PM 2/23/2004 -0800, you wrote: >I have posted several photos on the wiki and have some questions about the >plants that I hope more experienced growers can answer. >One narcissus: >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Narcissus_cuatrecasasii_segimonensis.jpg > >I would appreciate opinions on the identity of these plants, which are >close but not exactly matching the description. > >Three fritillarias: >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Fritillaria_eduardii.jpg > >No questions about that one but I like the photo. > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Fritillaria_latifolia.jpg >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Fritillaria_tubiformis,jpg > >As noted in the Information page, I think the "F. latifolia" must be a >hybrid with F. tubiformis because of the glaucous leaves. The slightly >deformed flower may result from frost damage while developing, or from the >fact that this seedling is flowering for the first time, or from the fact >that it is a hybrid. The plants of F. tubiformis appear to be correctly >named but note that I got a mixture of color forms from cultivated seed. > >Jane McGary >Northwestern Oregon, USA > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Feb 24 19:49:41 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040224164657.01fc9dd8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: New photos and questions Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:49:36 -0800 Harold wrote, >Jane: >Your cuatrecasasii looks like rupicola to me. >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Narcissus_cuatrecasasii_segimonensis.jpg Compared to plants I am growing under the name N. rupicola, this "cuatrecasasii" is much taller (about twice as tall) and has leaves only about half as wide. The floral tube is quite a bit longer, too. Also, all my accessions of N. rupicola flower at least a month later than this plant. However, all the anthers are within the tube, which is not supposed to be true of N. cuatrecasasii (I think). The two species are in the same section, of course. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From hkoopowi@uci.edu Tue Feb 24 21:25:37 2004 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20040224175321.01b1fd68@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: New photos and questions Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:25:36 -0800 Jane: Both species are quite variable with regards, size of plant, leaves, size of flower, height and time of flowering.I have examined both species in Spain. N. cuatrecasasii has three stamens sticking into the corona and there are three in the tube. In N. rupicola all six stamens are in the tube. In N. rupicola the opening to the tube is restricted, in N. cuatrecasasii it is wider. N. rupicola often has a pronouncedly scalloped and shallower, flatter corona like your flowers show, while in the other the corona is more of an acorn-cup shape. My first N. rupicola is in flower, others showing buds while the N. cuatrecasasii still have to show their buds. One definite way to tell is to remove the flower sheath. N. rupicola has amost no pedicel = stalk between the ovary and flower stem, while N. cuatrecasasii has a pedicel about 1 cm long. Check yours out and let me know. Harold At 04:49 PM 2/24/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Harold wrote, >>Jane: >>Your cuatrecasasii looks like rupicola to me. >>http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Narcissus_cuatrecasasii_segimonensis.jpg > >Compared to plants I am growing under the name N. rupicola, this >"cuatrecasasii" is much taller (about twice as tall) and has leaves only >about half as wide. The floral tube is quite a bit longer, too. Also, all >my accessions of N. rupicola flower at least a month later than this plant. > >However, all the anthers are within the tube, which is not supposed to be >true of N. cuatrecasasii (I think). > >The two species are in the same section, of course. > >Jane McGary >Northwestern Oregon > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Prof. Harold Koopowitz Ecology and Evolutionary Biology University of California, Irvine, CA 92697 From toadlily@olywa.net Tue Feb 24 23:16:12 2004 Message-Id: <403C21F2.5020107@olywa.net> From: Laura & Dave Subject: New photo upload for the tulip TOW Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:17:54 -0800 Hi all I hope that we're still on the tulip topic, as I've only just figured out how to load files to the wiki (not really that hard, just didn't want to botch it!) Anyway, there is a photo of one of my favorite species tulips to look at, and probably correct the name of (or add synonyms to). The link is: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tulipa and look for Tulipa pulchella var. humilis Peace and good gardening Dave Brastow, Tumwater, WA (where we're actually getting up to 50+ F days, and above freezing nights. And partially sunny!!! From Antennaria@aol.com Tue Feb 24 23:40:27 2004 Message-Id: <1a4.2056b0e1.2d6d812f@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Dwarf Tulipa - catching up Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 23:40:15 EST Lots of good comments on dwarf Tulipa. Let me respond to a few items: There were two AlpenPix postings of Tulipa species, Tulipa undulatifolia photographed by Graham Nicholls, and Tulipa neustreuvae photographed by Jon Evans. Both are stunning dwarf bulbs, but I'm particularly smitten with T. undulatifolia... not only is it among the most beautiful dwarf tulips I've seen, but it is among the most stunning dwarf bulbs of all time. Tulipa undulatifolia http://home.no.net/alpenpix/board/board.php?action=read&id_board=040220161840 Tulipa neustreuvae http://home.no.net/alpenpix/board/board.php?action=read&id_board=040223004210 The first species is available from Hoog and Dix wholesale, but maybe we could convince Paige Woodward or Russell Stafford to import this beauty through their nursery channels if there were enough interested buyers of a few bulbs each. Mary Sue Ittner wrote: >Tulipa bakeri 'Lilac Wonder' is another very >satisfactory Tulipa. I have planted this in the >ground hoping it might come back and occasionally >see it returning, but it does much better for me in >containers using my usual method. Funny, but I've >never found its foliage "chubby." I'll have to look >at it this year more closely. I do think the foliage is rather chubby, and proportionally too large for the rather small cup-shaped blooms. Check out my photo page on T. polychroma, a most delightful miniature white-flowered species, where it turns out that Tulipa bakeri bulbs were intermingled in the Holland bulb bins. The narrow gray foliage is T. polychroma, the wide, green foliage just emerging is bakeri 'Lilac Wonder'. The foliage will get much bigger and fatter than what you see in the images of early foliar emergence. http://www.plantbuzz.com/RockGard/Bulbs/Tulipa/im_Tulipa_polychroma.htm ...and here's the link to T. bakeri 'Lilac Wonder' bulbs growing out amongst T. tarda bulbs: http://www.plantbuzz.com/RockGard/Bulbs/Tulipa/im_bakeri.htm Jim McKenney wrote several paragraphs: >Tulipa bakeri Lilac Wonder was also mentioned. Tulipa >saxatilis puts up foliage in the fall; the foliage is >severely damaged in a typical winter. As a result, I >grew this species (by replacing it frequently) for years >without ever seeing it flower. When Lilac Wonder >became available, I was dubious: wasn't it just another >saxatilis variant under a new name? Was there any >reason to think that it might do better here? The two species are regarded as quite distinct, albeit the flowers have similar coloration reported as paler pink in T. saxatilis. Considering T. bakeri comes from Crete, it is surprising to me that it is ironclad hardy in New England. The foliage does not sprout in the autumn like saxatilis, but waits until spring. Tulipa saxatilis is said to be stoloniferous. Of the two species, I've only grown T. bakeri, and it certainly shows no tendency to be stoloniferous. >I couldn't agree less about your comments about >what rock gardeners prefer. I'm a rock gardener -of >sorts, but not the sort who measures everything and >tosses anything over eight inches high. But then, I >don't have a real rock garden. In my experience, >most rock gardeners don't. You must not take my comments too seriously, as they were purposely stereotyped to emphasize a point. My comments are based on some level of classic "rock gardening doctrine", personal observation over the years in the New England area, and a bit of mockery of the rock gardening "norms". I'm the first to admit that I like displays of pansies, petunias, huge-headed hydrangeas, giant hibiscus, snapdragons and zinnias, overbred iris and dahlias, lilacs, and a host of shrubs and trees. >The rock gardeners you seem to be referring to >are the space-starved modern rock gardeners who >set aside a few square yards of rock heap and >within that area manage to see glacial till, a >moraine, assorted chasms and crevices I didn't realized I had implied so much! To your assertion, I believe quite the opposite. Some of the best rock gardens in eastern USA that I've visited, particularly in Connecticut, and western and coastal Massachusetts, among other locations, had rather luxuriously expansive sites and elegant gardens, not even close to being a "rock heap". >As for plants, nothing much bigger than >a Draba need apply. And thus the need >for tiny tulips and crocus. And, as far as >I'm concerned, the result is proportionally >reduced enjoyment. "Proportionally reduced enjoyment"?... based on the need for tiny tulip and crocus? I don't see the correlation whatsoever, and find such an idea... let's say...novel. It has more to do with the overall character of a plant, its proportional balance, the disposition of leaves and flowers, and nuance of color and scent; these things offering visual attraction and fidelity, not necessarily based on size or height at all. I adore miniature narcissus... most people seem to, and why not, they are darling replicas of their larger kin. But I have my share of King Alfreds, as many people do, for the sheer exuberance of spring splendor and color they offer. You're right to point out, most rock gardeners are not strickly adherent to the so-called 12" rule (I haven't heard of the 8" rule you mentioned, nor the draba-height rule implying 2" max. height or so), and they tend to grow what they like. >So let's not bash the big tulips and crocus. >And please! We all don't prefer the so-called >species - certainly not to the exclusion of the >"inflated Dutch crocus". "Absolutely not"? I don't think I bashed big tulips, other than trying to encapsulate a few predispositions regarding them, and the perceived "norms" that ensue, whether these be right or wrong. My mom's Red and Orange Emperor tulips that I plant for her are indeed splendid when they bloom, and she's proud that her garden stands out from the neighbors. Regarding Dutch crocus, it is my personal opinion they look big and inflated, and lack the finesse and charm of the smaller sorts. Are Dutch crocus pretty... sure they are, but I'd pass them up gladly, to have a mature clump of C. chrysanthus 'Prins Claus', with pristine flowers so tightly packed they can hardly open and the floral scent worth lying in the mud for, to satiate the senses. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Crocus http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Crocus/Crocus_Prins_Claus_1.JPG Jane McGary mentions a couple species that catch my attention; "T. orithyoides (tiny, white-and-greenish, in flower now) from Central Asia; and T. sharonensis from Israel, thanks to a NARGS member there". Where might we find T. orithyoides? It sounds wonderful. Where is the species from? I guess I must scour the seed lists to find the more unusual sorts. Thanks Iza Goroff for the reminder about the NARGS Plant of the Month, with 4 Tulipa species represented. I particularly like the Tulipa batalinii 'Yellow Jewel' photo, the soft yellow flowers so pert and engaging. http://www.nargs.org/potm/potm_oct03.html Thanks to others for sharing their favorite dwarf tulips. If I had to draw a conclusion from the experience of others, it would be that Tulipa species are quite satisfactory in colder climates, and to a slightly lesser extent in warmer climates, but in all cases, they seem desirable and rewarding to those who grow them. On a closing note for this message, I must quote a line from Paige Woodward's tulipa page on her Pacific Rim Native Plant Nursery. http://www.hillkeep.ca/bulbs%20tulipa.htm In her offerings of Tulipa species (accompanied by photos), she says "Those we offer are primal and voluptuous. Grow them in swathes." That says it all somehow! I must try the primal T. carinata (distinctive flame red stars), ingens (huge red waxy flowers), kaufmanniana 'Ak-Tash' (upfacing cream yellow flowers), and ostrowskiana (hot red-orange blooms on short stems). Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com < From susanann@sbcglobal.net Wed Feb 25 02:15:20 2004 Message-Id: From: Susan Hayek Subject: Boggled brain Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 23:15:31 -0800 > >>If you are interested in growing South African bulbs that are >mostly from winter rainfall areas I highly recommend The Color >Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs by John Manning, Peter Goldblatt, and Dee >Snijman. **I'm rather overwhelmed by the amount of information offered on the pbs list. Are there any other bulb books listers would recommend? I put The Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs on my Amazon.com wish list. Now to win the lottery. The only catalog I have on hand to use as reference is last year's 'Brent and Becky's Bulbs', and I do an occasional google search. I am also entranced by the C. chrysanthus 'Prins Claus' pictured today. All the photos, all of them, have been mind boggling. Too many plants to learn, too little time to grow them. susan hayek fortuna, northern coast of ca, (we can see a peek of water), Zone 9 very very VERY windy tonight, my cuttings are taking a beating -- Owned by Jasper & Schubert the Standard Poodles, Pup-Quiz the Basenji, puppy Basenji boy, Jones, & Gracie the Rhodesian From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Wed Feb 25 03:54:00 2004 Message-Id: <001901c3fb7c$e7d41be0$fdd7403e@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Prelude to the afternoon of the snowdrops Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:42:14 -0000 I am very keen on the idea of Lady Macbeth's Red-spotted Snowdrop: it would liven things up no end! John Grimshaw Gardens Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McKenney" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 7:41 PM Subject: [pbs] Prelude to the afternoon of the snowdrops > The following was written in jest. For those of you who do not speak > gardener's Greek fluently, a glossary is provided at the conclusion. > > It helps to know what words mean. Here's a little story, a sort of > snowdrops for dummies story, with yours-truly as the butt of the joke. > > >From some recent postings I've realized that I obviously don't know what > Galanthus caucasicus is, that I've probably been using the term incorrectly. > > Our local chapter of the ARGS runs a yearly piece on plants blooming on New > Year's Day. Several members reported something called Galanthus elwesii > monostictus. I had never heard of Galanthus elwesii monostictus. The editor > kindly included in parentheses the synonym Galanthus caucasicus. Then it > hit me: monostictus means one-spotted. If you've been growing snowdrops as > long as I have, you'll remember the days when one of the first things you > learned was that Galanthus elwesii is distinguished by the two spots or the > fused spots on the inner perianth segments. Obviously the concept of > Galanthus elwesii has been revamped (and evidently by a horticulturist or a > botanist with strong horticultural ties): in addition to the traditional > two spotted forms, there are now monostictus or one-spotted forms. And some > of these monostictus forms are aparently my old pal Galanthus caucasicus. > Live and learn - and get used to the red facial flush! > > With this in mind, I ran out into the garden to check the spotting on my > Galanthus elwesii. Many have yet to bloom, so I thought I had best be > prepared. I have labels ready for the following should they appear: > monostictus, distictus, tristictus, tetrastictus, pentastictus, > hexastictus, hebdostictus, myriostictus, polystictus, hemistictus, > astictus, leucostictus (often confused with astictus but they really are > quite distinct), chrysostictus, chlorostictus, macrostictus, microstictus, > eustictus, pseudostictus, and my favorite, the rare Out!damnedstictus!. > > > The glossary: > > monostictus: one-spotted > distictus: two-spotted > tristictus: three-spotted > tetrastictus: four-spotted > pentastictus: five-spotted > hexastictus: six-spotted > hebdostictus: seven-spotted > polystictus: many-spotted > myriostictus: thousand-spotted > hemistictus: partly spotted > astictus: lacking spots > leucostictus: white-spotted > chrysostictus: golden-spotted > chlorostictus: green-spotted > macrostictus: large-spotted > microstictus: small-spotted > eustictus: well-spotted > pseudostictus: not really spotted > Out!damnedstictus! : Lady Macbeth's red-spotted snowdrop > > Jim McKenney > jimmckeney@starpower.net > Montgomery County, Maryland zone 7, where we're having a spot of what the > local weatherpeople call wintery mix. > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jshields104@insightbb.com Wed Feb 25 08:15:28 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040225075436.00b17578@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Boggled brain Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 07:59:04 -0500 Susan et al., There are lots of books, some hard to find. I list some on my web pages, such as: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/amaryllids/haemanthus.html at the very bottom of the page (scroll all the way down). Each genus page in that section has a list of books at the bottom, mostly the same but each genus tends to have one or two special books too. Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) At 11:15 PM 2/24/2004 -0800, you wrote: >> >>If you are interested in growing South African bulbs that are mostly >> from winter rainfall areas I highly recommend The Color Encyclopedia of >> Cape Bulbs by John Manning, Peter Goldblatt, and Dee Snijman. > >**I'm rather overwhelmed by the amount of information offered on the pbs list. >Are there any other bulb books listers would recommend? >I put The Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs on my Amazon.com wish list. >Now to win the lottery. > >The only catalog I have on hand to use as reference is last year's 'Brent >and Becky's Bulbs', and I do an occasional google search. >I am also entranced by the C. chrysanthus 'Prins Claus' pictured today. >All the photos, all of them, have been mind boggling. > >Too many plants to learn, too little time to grow them. > > >susan hayek >fortuna, northern coast of ca, (we can see a peek of water), Zone 9 >very very VERY windy tonight, my cuttings are taking a beating >-- >Owned by Jasper & Schubert the Standard Poodles, Pup-Quiz the Basenji, >puppy Basenji boy, Jones, & Gracie the Rhodesian > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jimmckenney@starpower.net Wed Feb 25 08:16:23 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040225081605.0085ead0@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Dwarf Tulipa - catching up Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:16:05 -0500 Well, Mark, my remarks were not really meant to be taken too seriously - I was just playing the devil's advocate and trying to stir things up a bit. I certainly share your enthusiasm for Crocus Prins Claus. If I'm not mistaken, the eponymous Prins Claus died only a year or two ago. Can anyone confirm that? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net At 11:40 PM 2/24/2004 EST, you wrote: >Lots of good comments on dwarf Tulipa. Let me respond to a few items: > >There were two AlpenPix postings of Tulipa species, Tulipa undulatifolia >photographed by Graham Nicholls, and Tulipa neustreuvae photographed by Jon Evans. >Both are stunning dwarf bulbs, but I'm particularly smitten with T. >undulatifolia... not only is it among the most beautiful dwarf tulips I've seen, but it >is among the most stunning dwarf bulbs of all time. > >Tulipa undulatifolia >http://home.no.net/alpenpix/board/board.php?action=read&id_board=040220161840 >Tulipa neustreuvae >http://home.no.net/alpenpix/board/board.php?action=read&id_board=040223004210 > >The first species is available from Hoog and Dix wholesale, but maybe we >could convince Paige Woodward or Russell Stafford to import this beauty through >their nursery channels if there were enough interested buyers of a few bulbs >each. > >Mary Sue Ittner wrote: >>Tulipa bakeri 'Lilac Wonder' is another very >>satisfactory Tulipa. I have planted this in the >>ground hoping it might come back and occasionally >>see it returning, but it does much better for me in >>containers using my usual method. Funny, but I've >>never found its foliage "chubby." I'll have to look >>at it this year more closely. > >I do think the foliage is rather chubby, and proportionally too large for the >rather small cup-shaped blooms. Check out my photo page on T. polychroma, a >most delightful miniature white-flowered species, where it turns out that >Tulipa bakeri bulbs were intermingled in the Holland bulb bins. The narrow gray >foliage is T. polychroma, the wide, green foliage just emerging is bakeri >'Lilac Wonder'. The foliage will get much bigger and fatter than what you see in >the images of early foliar emergence. >http://www.plantbuzz.com/RockGard/Bulbs/Tulipa/im_Tulipa_polychroma.htm >...and here's the link to T. bakeri 'Lilac Wonder' bulbs growing out amongst >T. tarda bulbs: >http://www.plantbuzz.com/RockGard/Bulbs/Tulipa/im_bakeri.htm > >Jim McKenney wrote several paragraphs: >>Tulipa bakeri Lilac Wonder was also mentioned. Tulipa >>saxatilis puts up foliage in the fall; the foliage is >>severely damaged in a typical winter. As a result, I >>grew this species (by replacing it frequently) for years >>without ever seeing it flower. When Lilac Wonder >>became available, I was dubious: wasn't it just another >>saxatilis variant under a new name? Was there any >>reason to think that it might do better here? > >The two species are regarded as quite distinct, albeit the flowers have >similar coloration reported as paler pink in T. saxatilis. Considering T. bakeri >comes from Crete, it is surprising to me that it is ironclad hardy in New >England. The foliage does not sprout in the autumn like saxatilis, but waits until >spring. Tulipa saxatilis is said to be stoloniferous. Of the two species, >I've only grown T. bakeri, and it certainly shows no tendency to be >stoloniferous. > >>I couldn't agree less about your comments about >>what rock gardeners prefer. I'm a rock gardener -of >>sorts, but not the sort who measures everything and >>tosses anything over eight inches high. But then, I >>don't have a real rock garden. In my experience, >>most rock gardeners don't. > >You must not take my comments too seriously, as they were purposely >stereotyped to emphasize a point. My comments are based on some level of classic "rock >gardening doctrine", personal observation over the years in the New England >area, and a bit of mockery of the rock gardening "norms". I'm the first to >admit that I like displays of pansies, petunias, huge-headed hydrangeas, giant >hibiscus, snapdragons and zinnias, overbred iris and dahlias, lilacs, and a host >of shrubs and trees. > >>The rock gardeners you seem to be referring to >>are the space-starved modern rock gardeners who >>set aside a few square yards of rock heap and >>within that area manage to see glacial till, a >>moraine, assorted chasms and crevices > >I didn't realized I had implied so much! To your assertion, I believe quite >the opposite. Some of the best rock gardens in eastern USA that I've visited, >particularly in Connecticut, and western and coastal Massachusetts, among >other locations, had rather luxuriously expansive sites and elegant gardens, not >even close to being a "rock heap". > >>As for plants, nothing much bigger than >>a Draba need apply. And thus the need >>for tiny tulips and crocus. And, as far as >>I'm concerned, the result is proportionally >>reduced enjoyment. > >"Proportionally reduced enjoyment"?... based on the need for tiny tulip and >crocus? I don't see the correlation whatsoever, and find such an idea... let's >say...novel. It has more to do with the overall character of a plant, its >proportional balance, the disposition of leaves and flowers, and nuance of color >and scent; these things offering visual attraction and fidelity, not >necessarily based on size or height at all. I adore miniature narcissus... most >people seem to, and why not, they are darling replicas of their larger kin. But I >have my share of King Alfreds, as many people do, for the sheer exuberance of >spring splendor and color they offer. You're right to point out, most rock >gardeners are not strickly adherent to the so-called 12" rule (I haven't heard >of the 8" rule you mentioned, nor the draba-height rule implying 2" max. >height or so), and they tend to grow what they like. > >>So let's not bash the big tulips and crocus. >>And please! We all don't prefer the so-called >>species - certainly not to the exclusion of the >>"inflated Dutch crocus". "Absolutely not"? > >I don't think I bashed big tulips, other than trying to encapsulate a few >predispositions regarding them, and the perceived "norms" that ensue, whether >these be right or wrong. My mom's Red and Orange Emperor tulips that I plant for >her are indeed splendid when they bloom, and she's proud that her garden >stands out from the neighbors. Regarding Dutch crocus, it is my personal opinion >they look big and inflated, and lack the finesse and charm of the smaller >sorts. Are Dutch crocus pretty... sure they are, but I'd pass them up gladly, to >have a mature clump of C. chrysanthus 'Prins Claus', with pristine flowers so >tightly packed they can hardly open and the floral scent worth lying in the mud >for, to satiate the senses. >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Crocus >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Crocus/Crocus_Prins_Claus_1.JPG > >Jane McGary mentions a couple species that catch my attention; "T. >orithyoides (tiny, white-and-greenish, in flower now) from Central Asia; and T. >sharonensis from Israel, thanks to a NARGS member there". Where might we find T. >orithyoides? It sounds wonderful. Where is the species from? I guess I must >scour the seed lists to find the more unusual sorts. > >Thanks Iza Goroff for the reminder about the NARGS Plant of the Month, with 4 >Tulipa species represented. I particularly like the Tulipa batalinii 'Yellow >Jewel' photo, the soft yellow flowers so pert and engaging. >http://www.nargs.org/potm/potm_oct03.html > >Thanks to others for sharing their favorite dwarf tulips. If I had to draw a >conclusion from the experience of others, it would be that Tulipa species are >quite satisfactory in colder climates, and to a slightly lesser extent in >warmer climates, but in all cases, they seem desirable and rewarding to those who >grow them. > >On a closing note for this message, I must quote a line from Paige Woodward's >tulipa page on her Pacific Rim Native Plant Nursery. >http://www.hillkeep.ca/bulbs%20tulipa.htm >In her offerings of Tulipa species (accompanied by photos), she says "Those >we offer are primal and voluptuous. Grow them in swathes." That says it all >somehow! I must try the primal T. carinata (distinctive flame red stars), >ingens (huge red waxy flowers), kaufmanniana 'Ak-Tash' (upfacing cream yellow >flowers), and ostrowskiana (hot red-orange blooms on short stems). > > >Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States >antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 >============================================== >>> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com < >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From jimmckenney@starpower.net Wed Feb 25 08:43:37 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040225084318.0085f980@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Snowdrop Benhall Beauty Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:43:18 -0500 Snowdrops are finally coming into bloom here in Maryland, and they are reminding me that I have some long un-answered snowdrop questions which members of the list may be able to answer. There is a nice clump here of Benhall Beauty. I'm happy to see that it seems to agree with the photo posted on Mark Smyth's site. Snowdrops often seem to change their identity when they depart the motherland, cross the pond and take up residence here in the colonies. Perhaps they are involved in witness-protection programs? My bulbs came labeled Benhall Beauty, but I got into the perhaps bad habit of calling them Benthall Beauty, after the home of urcroconut George Maw, Benthall Hall. This raises two questions: Is the name of the snowdrop properly Benhall Beauty or Benthall Beauty? How is Benthall properly pronounced? Is it Bent-hall, Benth-all, Ben-thall or something else? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland zone 7, where snowdrops are finally spreading the milk of spring's kindness in the garden. From jimmckenney@starpower.net Wed Feb 25 08:54:30 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040225085408.008628b0@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Prelude to the afternoon of the snowdrops Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:54:08 -0500 John Grimshaw wrote: >I am very keen on the idea of Lady Macbeth's Red-spotted Snowdrop: it would >liven things up no end! Dear Mr Grimshaw, When and if she ever appears, I promise to send you a bulb as soon as the original splits. : ) Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland zone 7, where I think I'll have to hire Heccat and the three Witches as gardeners if I'm to come up with a red-spotted snowdrop. > From brian.whyer@which.net Wed Feb 25 09:16:14 2004 Message-Id: <20040225141612.CCEU1184.kx1-gui@[194.168.97.11]> From: Subject: Snowdrop Benhall Beauty Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:16:12 +0000 I suggest you ring Mr. and Mrs. Benthall at home on the number on http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/scripts/nthandbook.dll?ACTION=PROPERTY&PROPERTYID=122 and see how they answer. The snowdrop is named after the village of Benhall in Suffolk, I presume. Don't have my reference book handy. Brian Whyer, zone 8'ish, Buckinghamshire, England From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Wed Feb 25 11:08:17 2004 Message-Id: <001601c3fbb9$9136b8f0$56a879a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Boggled brain Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:08:00 -0800 Dear Susan: Some of the general bulb books I have really enjoyed are as follows: "Best Bulbs for Temperate Climates" Jack Hobbs & Terry Hatch - Timber Press "Bulbous Plants of Southern Africa" Niel DuPlessis & Graham Duncan "Spring and Winter Flowering Bulbs of the Cape" Barbara Jeppe "Bulbs of North America" Jane McGary, ed. - Timber Press "Garden Bulbs for the South" Scott Ogden "Bulbs for Warm Climates" Thad Howard "Bulbs" John Bryan - Timber Press "Bulbs for the Rock Garden" Jack Elliott These days I usually refer mostly to monographs, but I still refer back to all of the above and several are indispensible for a library focused on bulbs. Anything by Brian Mathew (not listed above) is to be snatched up, but some of his books are no longer in print. Diana From msittner@mcn.org Wed Feb 25 11:16:45 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040225074720.01954cd0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Boggled brain Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:15:38 -0800 Dear Susan, We have been trying to make our wiki a resource for information that is provided on this list or by the list members. As I have time I keep adding to it. On the topic of the week wiki page I have included the links so you will be directed to the portion of the archives where we discussed a specific topic or where you will find the introduction to a topic. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TOW In December 2002 we discussed favorite books. Jane McGary also came up with a great idea of making a reference section on the wiki adding those books that are especially useful with a few words about them. We hoped everyone would add their favorite books, but I suspect most of the entries are hers although I added the books I treasure too for some of the bulbs she doesn't grow and I grow. We had hoped to link the suggested book to the wiki genus pages, but so far I haven't had time and I think there are only a few done. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/References We have people who are new to our list since we started the Reference page and we invite you to add any books you find especially helpful with comments. Also any of you who meant to add references and didn't, can still do that. That is the nice thing about the wiki. It is always evolving and improving. One tip: the way you make a wiki page is to write words together so writing McGary makes the wiki think a new page is desired for Mc Gary so we sometimes have to fudge so if you see Mcgary or another double name and you think it is written in error and you change it to correct it, you will see why it is written Mcgary. In March 2003 we had a discussion of favorite sources of bulbs and seed so you can check that out too from the TOW page. And there is always our BX which I've found is a good source for seeds and bulbs. A lot of us do private sharing and swapping as well. I add people's names to the contributors list when they add a picture to the wiki or I add information they have shared to a page (with credit) or if I have linked their introduction to the topic of the week to the wiki. If you look at all the names there, it's very impressive. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Contributors Mary Sue From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Wed Feb 25 11:19:31 2004 Message-Id: <20040225161928.96463.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Artistry/John Ingram Subject: Phallocallis and Cypella Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:19:28 -0800 (PST) "i just looked up Phallocallis coelestis. it looks just like the Cypella coelestis in plantdelights.com website! i wonder if they are synonyms?" Someone asked this on another list and wondered if someone here could answer, Alberto, Tony, Mary Sue, other? From msittner@mcn.org Wed Feb 25 11:34:40 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040225083148.018d2780@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Phallocallis and Cypella Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:33:43 -0800 Dear John, This plant is grown under a lot of different names. Cypella coelestis seems to be the one most people are preferring at the moment. Other names you might see are Cypella coelestis plumbea, C. plumbea, and Phalocallis coelestis Mary Seu From tony@plantdelights.com Wed Feb 25 11:43:47 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20040225114346.00c1d528@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: Phallocallis and Cypella Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:43:46 -0500 John: Cypella coelestis used to be Phalocallis plumbea as well as Tigridia coelestis. Those darn taxonomists. At 08:19 AM 2/25/2004 -0800, you wrote: >"i just looked up Phallocallis coelestis. it looks >just like the Cypella coelestis in plantdelights.com >website! i wonder if they are synonyms?" > >Someone asked this on another list and wondered if >someone here could answer, Alberto, Tony, Mary Sue, >other? > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Wed Feb 25 12:20:16 2004 Message-Id: <20040225172014.13900.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Artistry/John Ingram Subject: Phallocallis and Cypella Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:20:14 -0800 (PST) Thanks all for the fast response. I'll pass it along to the one who asked. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. Soon to become www.floralarchitecture.com check it out soon 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Feb 25 12:47:55 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040225093029.00bad480@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: New photos and questions Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:46:38 -0800 Regarding the identity of the plant on the wiki as http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Narcissus_cuatrecasasii_segimonensis.jpg Harold Koopowitz wrote that it appeared to be Narcissus rupicola: "Both species are quite variable with regards, size of plant, leaves, size of flower, height and time of flowering.I have examined both species in Spain. N. cuatrecasasii has three stamens sticking into the corona and there are three in the tube. In N. rupicola all six stamens are in the tube. In N. rupicola the opening to the tube is restricted, in N. cuatrecasasii it is wider. N. rupicola often has a pronouncedly scalloped and shallower, flatter corona like your flowers show, while in the other the corona is more of an acorn-cup shape. One definite way to tell is to remove the flower sheath. N. rupicola has amost no pedicel = stalk between the ovary and flower stem, while N. cuatrecasasii has a pedicel about 1 cm long. Check yours out and let me know." This morning I did that. There are 8 flowers in the pot of seedlings, some of which are identical clones, since it has been repotted since originally being grown from seed. Two of the 8 flowers have almost no pedicel. One has an 8 mm pedicel, and the rest have pedicels from 4 to 6 mm long. None have exserted stamens and all have flaring, scalloped coronas. All of them have an angle at the point where the tube opens, rather than flaring gradually, but in no case is the tube constricted at this point. Does this mean that these plants represent hybridizing (possibly in the supplier's collection, even though the seed was supplied with a collector's number)? What should I call this pot of narcissi? How about "Tall N. rupicola hybrids"? It's so different from any others I have that I want to keep it. Thanks, Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon. USA From mark@marksgardenplants.com Wed Feb 25 13:45:03 2004 Message-Id: <004e01c3fbcf$78492f10$473c2bd9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Snowdrop Benhall Beauty Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:44:58 -0000 hi Jim Your bulbs are 'Benhall Beauty' and said ben-hall. According to Matt Bishop et al it has G. elwesii in it's history which can be seen by the hoods on the leaf tips. Mark N Ireland From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Feb 25 18:16:51 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040225095634.00ba1318@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Dwarf Tulipa - catching up Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:32:16 -0800 Mark McDonough asked, "Jane McGary mentions a couple species that catch my attention; "T. >orithyoides (tiny, white-and-greenish, in flower now) from Central Asia; >and T. >sharonensis from Israel, thanks to a NARGS member there". Where might we >find T. >orithyoides? It sounds wonderful. Where is the species from?" I will post a photo of it on the wiki when more flowers open in a week or so. The origin is collector's number JJH948746 and the geographical site is listed as CIMG 3200 m[eters], rocky slopes. I believe this is his code for Chimgan , and I think that's a variant of Chimkent, a province of Kazakhstan. I ordered the seed from his 1994 catalog. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From ksa@del.net Wed Feb 25 14:45:35 2004 Message-Id: <1c8501c3fbd7$dab6a850$bdc878d1@Kathy8200> From: "Kathy Andersen" Subject: New photos and questions Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:44:53 -0500 Jane, N. rupicola is one of the most variable species I have observed in Spain over the last 16 year of visits to its mountainous sites. Most come with one flower per stem, but I have often seen two and on two occasions three. One is certainly preferable. With the ovary sessile to the stalk, the heads are far too crowded and stiff when more than one is present. Have seen flowers from 1.0 cm to 4.5 cm in diameter in colors ranging from faded yellow to the typical bright deep yellow. Coronas very from trim and straight to blousy, ruffled, scalloped and expanded. The stem height is also widely variable. If you have the original collection data, do you have a location? N. rupicola is widely spread north and west of Madrid clear through into Portugal. It has also been reported south of Madrid. Each population is a slightly different, but most are a bit trimer in appearance than those in your picture. I have only seen N. cuatrecasasii segimonensis in mountains south of Madrid and in much smaller and more scattered populations. It is an extremely tidy and precise bloom, and as Harold noted, has three anthers exerted. Unfortunately all of my pictures were taken before acquiring a digital camera. Should I be fortunate enough to see both of these next month, I will post pictures. Kathy Andersen ksa@del.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Jane McGary To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] New photos and questions Regarding the identity of the plant on the wiki as http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Narcissus_cuatrecasasii_segimonensis.jpg Harold Koopowitz wrote that it appeared to be Narcissus rupicola: "Both species are quite variable with regards, size of plant, leaves, size of flower, height and time of flowering.I have examined both species in Spain. N. cuatrecasasii has three stamens sticking into the corona and there are three in the tube. In N. rupicola all six stamens are in the tube. In N. rupicola the opening to the tube is restricted, in N. cuatrecasasii it is wider. N. rupicola often has a pronouncedly scalloped and shallower, flatter corona like your flowers show, while in the other the corona is more of an acorn-cup shape. One definite way to tell is to remove the flower sheath. N. rupicola has amost no pedicel = stalk between the ovary and flower stem, while N. cuatrecasasii has a pedicel about 1 cm long. Check yours out and let me know." This morning I did that. There are 8 flowers in the pot of seedlings, some of which are identical clones, since it has been repotted since originally being grown from seed. Two of the 8 flowers have almost no pedicel. One has an 8 mm pedicel, and the rest have pedicels from 4 to 6 mm long. None have exserted stamens and all have flaring, scalloped coronas. All of them have an angle at the point where the tube opens, rather than flaring gradually, but in no case is the tube constricted at this point. Does this mean that these plants represent hybridizing (possibly in the supplier's collection, even though the seed was supplied with a collector's number)? What should I call this pot of narcissi? How about "Tall N. rupicola hybrids"? It's so different from any others I have that I want to keep it. Thanks, Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon. USA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jimmckenney@starpower.net Wed Feb 25 15:34:32 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040225153418.00862e80@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Dwarf Tulipa - catching up Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:34:18 -0500 In discussing Tulipa saxatilis and Tulipa bakeri Lilac Wonder, Mark McDonough said: >The two species are regarded as quite distinct... And he is quite right. But regarded so by whom, and why? As garden plants they certainly are distinct. But are they "two species"? That's where it gets interesting. And if you read on, perhaps you will emerge with a different opinion. A brief layperson's glossary is provided at the end to help keep everyone up to speed in this discussion. The name Tulipa saxatilis was originally used for a triploid tulip. Triploids do not form sexually reproducing populations. They cannot be true species; there has to be more to the picture. Tulipa cretica and Tulipa bakeri are the likely candidates for consideration as the source of T. saxatilis. For purposes of discussion, let's assume that it was T. bakeri. T. bakeri was named later than T. saxatilis. That means that if T. saxatilis is regarded as a triploid form of T. bakeri, the name for the aggregate becomes T. saxatilis. It's a case of the rules of nomenclature requiring that the tail (triploid, nominal species Tulipa saxatilis) wag the dog (diploid sexually reproducing species T. bakeri). If evidence should arise showing that T. saxatilis has some other origin, then the entire picture changes. For those of you who do not have a technical background yet want to understand what this is all about, here are some informal definitions: diploid: with two sets of chromosomes, one from each parent triploid: with an extra set of chromosomes. The term "sterile triploid" is virtually a cliche, but it is an inaccurate one; triploids can and do set viable seed under the right conditions. sexually reproducing populations: for purposes of this discussion, true species. nominal species: species in name only, not really true species; in the bad old days, taxonomists named everything in sight before they really knew enough about the biology of the entity in question. Familiar examples of nominal species are Lycoris squamigera, Lilium lancifolium, Hemerocallis fulva and Crocus sativus. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland zone 7 where foliage of Tulipa saxatilis planted in early December is just emerging. From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Wed Feb 25 18:02:15 2004 Message-Id: <000e01c3fbf3$357cc560$2689eb50@TheAfricanGarden> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Nursery contains or Flower pot sizes Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:00:45 -0000 > Angelo's comments inspired me to determine some actual volumes, since I've > been wondering about this for literally years. My preliminary results are at: > http://www.shieldsgardens.com/FlowerPots.html Hi Jim, That guide was so very helpful, and helps to clarify how all of you in the US are actually growing many of the bulbs you are. We here in the UK here of things being grown in 8 gallon containers etc., but we know how big you really mean in comparative terms. Thanks Jim, very useful indeed. Best Wishes, Dave (Plymouth, UK) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.577 / Virus Database: 366 - Release Date: 03/02/04 From jshields104@insightbb.com Wed Feb 25 18:10:51 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040225175451.037c4430@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Dwarf Tulipa - catching up Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:10:44 -0500 Lest Jim McK. feel that no one is reading what he writes, I would like to take issue with him on a couple of minor points. Hemerocallis fulva is a perfectly good diploid, fertile species. H. fulva 'Europa' is the almost sterile triploid. As I recall, Verne Grant in his book on plant speciation (the exact title of which I've forgotten) discussed parthenogenic races of known sexual species in the rain lilies (I think it was) as reproductively isolated and hence separate or at least emerging new species. If a triploid race is truly reproductively isolated, it could slowly drift away from its genetic identity with the ancestral sexually reproducing population until it really became a new species. At any rate it is an interesting phenomenon, no matter how you want to treat the plants. Jim Shields in central Indiana At 03:34 PM 2/25/2004 -0500, you wrote: >In discussing Tulipa saxatilis and Tulipa bakeri Lilac Wonder, Mark >McDonough said: > > >The two species are regarded as quite distinct... > >And he is quite right. But regarded so by whom, and why? As garden plants >they certainly are distinct. But are they "two species"? That's where it >gets interesting. And if you read on, perhaps you will emerge with a >different opinion. A brief layperson's glossary is provided at the end to >help keep everyone up to speed in this discussion. > >The name Tulipa saxatilis was originally used for a triploid tulip. >Triploids do not form sexually reproducing populations. They cannot be true >species; there has to be more to the picture. > >Tulipa cretica and Tulipa bakeri are the likely candidates for >consideration as the source of T. saxatilis. For purposes of discussion, >let's assume that it was T. bakeri. T. bakeri was named later than T. >saxatilis. That means that if T. saxatilis is regarded as a triploid form >of T. bakeri, the name for the aggregate becomes T. saxatilis. It's a case >of the rules of nomenclature requiring that the tail (triploid, nominal >species Tulipa saxatilis) wag the dog (diploid sexually reproducing species >T. bakeri). > >If evidence should arise showing that T. saxatilis has some other origin, >then the entire picture changes. > >For those of you who do not have a technical background yet want to >understand what this is all about, here are some informal definitions: > >diploid: with two sets of chromosomes, one from each parent > >triploid: with an extra set of chromosomes. The term "sterile triploid" is >virtually a cliche, but it is an inaccurate one; triploids can and do set >viable seed under the right conditions. > >sexually reproducing populations: for purposes of this discussion, true >species. > >nominal species: species in name only, not really true species; in the bad >old days, taxonomists named everything in sight before they really knew >enough about the biology of the entity in question. Familiar examples of >nominal species are Lycoris squamigera, Lilium lancifolium, Hemerocallis >fulva and Crocus sativus. > > >Jim McKenney >jimmckenney@starpower.net >Montgomery County, Maryland zone 7 where foliage of Tulipa saxatilis >planted in early December is just emerging. > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From totototo@pacificcoast.net Sun Feb 22 18:21:31 2004 Message-Id: <200402222321.i1MNL9f6021761@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Mandragora officinarum Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:28:10 -800 On 21 Feb 04 at 17:25, Brian Whyer wrote: > Can someone tell me if Mandragora officinarum is self fertile. > Should I be out there in the cold tickling it to help it along. It > has looked like this link > http://pharm1.pharmazie.uni-greifswald.de/allgemei/serturn/arzpfl-b/ > mand ra-o.jpg for some weeks and has several flowers to "open" yet. > It reminds me of Audrey2 in the film Little Shop of Horrors, but I > have not heard it scream yet. My impression (not one formed by careful scientific observation, admittedly) is that the mandrakes need a bit of warmth to be fertilized. As far as I know they are self fertile -- after all, they are solanaceous and that family is not known for self-sterility. If your plants are young, don't expect fruit. Mine have taken 5 to 10 years to reach the fruiting stage. BTW, does anyone grow Mandragora officinarum ssp. haussknechtii? And does anyone know a *good* modern treatment of genus Mandragora? The references I have are totally confusing. On 21 Feb 04 at 17:48, John Grimshaw wrote: > Mandragora officinarum is self-fertile - at least my solitary plant > sets a good crop of fat fruits each year. I assume the bees do the > job of pollination. How to get the seed to germinate is another > matter! In the first edition of his Gardening Dictionary, Miller says the seeds must be fresh; but my plants all originated from exchange seed sown long after harvest. Sow the silly things, put the pot in a coldframe, and wait. They'll come up. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From ggroiti@mail.agro.uba.ar Wed Feb 25 19:26:24 2004 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20040225205921.01a572c8@pop3.agro.uba.ar> From: German Roitman Subject: News in Cypella Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 21:26:21 -0300 Hi All: Alberto Castillo and i have published a paper about some novelties in the genus Cypella, and we would like to share the results with you. A new subspecies of Cypella osteniana, C. o. aurantiaca that live in grasslands in Brazil, west of Uruguay and north-east of Argentina is here described for the first time. This subspecies can be easily distinguished from C. osteniana subsp. osteniana because of the orange color of the flower, and the convergent stigma lobes in aurantiaca and the whitish flowers with divergent stigma lobes in osteniana. Also Cypella laxa has been cited for Argentina, it was formerly described for Brazil and Paraguay and Cypella laeta is cited for Uruguay, only cited in Argentina until now. You can see the pictures and info in: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Cypella Published in Bol. Soc. Argent. Bot. 38: 33-339. 2004. If someone is interested, although the paper is in Spanish, i can send you the .pdf file. Best wishes Germán _________________________________________ Ing. Agr. MSc. Germán Roitman mailto:roitman@mail.agro.uba.ar Cátedra de Jardinería Coordinador de la Carrera Técnica de Jardinería Facultad de Agronomia. Universidad de Buenos Aires _________________________________________ From jimmckenney@starpower.net Wed Feb 25 19:36:17 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040225193603.008607f0@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Dwarf Tulipa - catching up Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:36:03 -0500 Jim Shields wrote: >Hemerocallis fulva is a perfectly good diploid, fertile species. H. fulva >'Europa' is the almost sterile triploid. Thanks, Jim, I was not aware that there was a diploid, sexually reproducing entity which corresponds to Hemerocallis fulva. Give me some time to check that out; and then I may bring it up again. Jim McKenney jimmckeney@starpower.net > From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Thu Feb 26 08:25:02 2004 Message-Id: <000001c3fc6b$ee0a79b0$4aa6403e@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Snowdrop Benhall Beauty Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:11:39 -0000 Galanthus 'Benhall Beauty' arose in the garden of John Gray in the village of Benhall in Suffolk. It is one of those snowdrops that would no longer be selected, but persists in collections, to the bemusement of some of us. John Grimshaw Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk From jimmckenney@starpower.net Thu Feb 26 09:59:43 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040226095929.0083bc80@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Snowdrop Benhall Beauty Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:59:29 -0500 John Grimshaw wrote: >It is one of those snowdrops that would no longer be >selected, but persists in collections, to the bemusement of some of us. Is that why, when I first saw it blooming in my garden, I thought "I want my money back"? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net At 09:11 AM 2/26/2004 -0000, you wrote: >Galanthus 'Benhall Beauty' arose in the garden of John Gray in the village >of Benhall in Suffolk. It is one of those snowdrops that would no longer be >selected, but persists in collections, to the bemusement of some of us. > >John Grimshaw > > > >Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From arnold@nj.rr.com Thu Feb 26 13:04:51 2004 Message-Id: <403E3540.2070007@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: hippeastrum papilio Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:04:48 -0500 Flowering today grown with HID lights %%%http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/hippeastrum_papilio_1.JPG Arnold New Jersey From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Feb 26 17:59:48 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040226145734.00ba5a50@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Fritillaria latifolia Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:59:36 -0800 I recently posted a photo of Fritillaria latifolia, grown from seed, on the wiki and had a question about its identity because my plant has glaucous leaves rather than the glossy green leaves mentioned in the British literature. I thought it might be a hybrid with F. tubiformis from Europe. However, Janis Ruksans's new catalog arrived here today, and it has a photo of a wild form from the Caucasus, F. latifolia, with distinctly glaucous leaves, so I won't change my label just yet. I have edited the note on the wiki to reflect this information. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon USA From ConroeJoe@aol.com Fri Feb 27 08:51:31 2004 Message-Id: <129.3bf2369f.2d70a55d@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Why do some plants bloom in summer (off topic) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:51:25 EST It has been known for many years that some plants respond to day length to control certain activities such as flowering, dormancy, and general growth, etc.  The ability is called photoperiodism, and it is not limited to plants.  Many organisms take cues from the number of hours of daylight (or number of hours of darkness).   In more recent years a number of proteins have been identified called photoreceptors; these molecules respond to different wavelengths of light and have been shown to effect some of the plant responses to light (e.g., shade avoidance and choloroplast movement within cells).   One of the more obvious photoperiodic responses of plants is flowering.  How do plants know when to flower?  Many plants can grow in cool temperatures and even flower, but it would be folly to flower too early in the season—a late frost could destroy all of the flowers, which tend to be tender.  Thus, many plants have evolved a mechanism to delay flowering till days are longer, hence the season is more advanced and chances of a frost are reduced.  Of course, there are many other reasons plants bloom at a certain time, one major factor is the presence of a pollinator.  There are many plants that bloom only at the precise time their pollinating insect can be expected to be present.  In fact some insect-plant pollinator relationships are very fine tuned, and the flowers and insects are only active for a few weeks each year.  If they miss each other it might spell doom for both species; no seeds set for the plant and no pollen or nectar for the insects.   Anyway, a molecular mechanism that controls flowering in Arabidopsis has been worked out in the past few years.  The mechanism turns out to be fairly simple.  Photoreceptors are activated by light, and when they are active they can prevent the degradation of a protein called CONSTANS.  In turn, CONSTANS can activate certain genes that promote flowering.  As with any fine tuned system there are opposing controls.  Other photoreceptors cause the degradation of CONSTANS.   So there is a balance between the gain of CONSTANS and the loss of CONSTANS.  Finally, it turns out that the two opposing mechanisms occur late in the day (stabilizing CONSTANS) or early in the day (degrading CONSTANS).  The effect is that levels of CONSTANS rise and fall each day.  However, the stabilizing effect is enhanced as days become longer and more CONSTANS is able to survive.  Finally, when the hours of light reach a critical value, enough CONSTANS accumulates to activate flowering genes.   Plants are clever indeed.  From what we know about them it seems likely that CONSTANS is only one way plants regulate flowering by day length.  Probably we’ ll know  more in the next few years.   LINK 1: Photoreceptor Regulation of CONSTANS (Abstract) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed& list_uids=14963328&dopt=Abstract LINK 2: Science Update Article http://www.nature.com/nsu/020916/020916-12.html LINK 3: Photoreceptors in Arabidopsis http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/100/4/2140.pdf Cordially, Joe , zone 9, Snowdrops emerged this week (Galanthus hybrid) From leo1010@attglobal.net Fri Feb 27 15:05:46 2004 Message-Id: <403F86F0.70301@attglobal.net> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Introduction Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:05:36 -0500 Hello, I am Leo Martin, and I live in Phoenix, Arizona, USA. I grow a lot of different plants, especially many cactus and other succulents. I like to grow from seed where possible. I have gardened in Southern California, where I grew up and got my bachelor's degree at UC Irvine; St Louis, Missouri; and Arizona. Stints in San Francisco and Seattle for further schooling involved only indoor gardening. From my interest in S African succulents, I began growing some bulbs, and have produced some Lachenalia seed. Over the past few years I have planted several dozen pots of winter-growing bulb seed, mostly from Silverhill, but also from the IBS and friends and family in California. Some came up right away and some have straggled up over the years. Some still aren't up. None have bloomed yet. I also have some summer-growing Ammocharis, Boophane, Crinum, and Gethyllis from seed, none of which have bloomed yet. I am involved with the Cactus and Succulent Society of America and the Central Arizona Cactus and Succulent Society. Leo -- Leo A. Martin Phoenix, Arizona, USA Like cactus and succulents? Cactus and Succulent Society of America http://www.cssainc.org Central Arizona Cactus and Succulent Society http://www.centralarizonacactus.org From leo1010@attglobal.net Fri Feb 27 15:15:02 2004 Message-Id: <403F891C.30301@attglobal.net> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Gethyllis seedlings Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:14:52 -0500 Hellos, Any suggestions on Gethyllis seedlings? I received some seed last July, all sprouting, and managed to keep most alive over the rest of our hellish summer. They went dormant in late summer/early fall, about the end of September here, when it was still over 95F / 36C most days. They had had enough heat for a while, I think. With the onset of cooler weather in November they began growing again. But rather than all sprouting at once, a few will sprout, grow for a few weeks, and then die back. A few more then sprout. I don't know if the ones that die back are dead or not. They are in a communal 3.25" / 7.25cm square plastic "rose pot", which is a little deeper than a standard pot. The soil is very sandy. I have not let them dry out since cool weather began, since they are so small, but neither are they standing in water. They have been protected from our light frosts, but have reached temperatures into the mid 30s F / low single digits C. Daytime temperatures are much like S California. They are shaded until about eleven in the morning and receive several hours of sun in the afternoon. The Ferraria, Lachenalia, Romulea, and mesemb seedlings next to them grow fine, though the mesembs are somewhat reddish. I have fertilized about every two weeks with quarter-strength balanced water-soluble fertilizer. I water the seedlings with reverse osmosis water because our water has so many dissolved salts. Adult Gethyllis have done well in these conditions for me (with larger pots.) Any suggestions? Or, is it normal for these seedlings to leaf out only for a few weeks? Thank you, Leo -- Leo A. Martin Phoenix, Arizona, USA Like cactus and succulents? Central Arizona Cactus and Succulent Society http://www.centralarizonacactus.org From mysticgardn@yahoo.com Fri Feb 27 13:37:14 2004 Message-Id: <20040227183704.54523.qmail@web40505.mail.yahoo.com> From: Ann Marie Subject: Boggled brain Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:37:04 -0800 (PST) Susan, try going to Overstock.com to purchase Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs for about $40. Ann Marie Susan Hayek wrote:> >>If you are interested in growing South African bulbs that are >mostly from winter rainfall areas I highly recommend The Color >Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs by John Manning, Peter Goldblatt, and Dee >Snijman. **I'm rather overwhelmed by the amount of information offered on the pbs list. Are there any other bulb books listers would recommend? I put The Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs on my Amazon.com wish list. Now to win the lottery. The only catalog I have on hand to use as reference is last year's 'Brent and Becky's Bulbs', and I do an occasional google search. I am also entranced by the C. chrysanthus 'Prins Claus' pictured today. All the photos, all of them, have been mind boggling. Too many plants to learn, too little time to grow them. susan hayek fortuna, northern coast of ca, (we can see a peek of water), Zone 9 very very VERY windy tonight, my cuttings are taking a beating -- Owned by Jasper & Schubert the Standard Poodles, Pup-Quiz the Basenji, puppy Basenji boy, Jones, & Gracie the Rhodesian _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Ann Marie So. California, San Gabriel Valley, Zone 21 (Sunset Western Garden book) , influenced by both marine and interior air(Santa Ana winds). This makes it perfect for Citrus trees and most So African plants. I collect and sometimes sell belladonnas, nerines, oxalis, moraea, amaryllis, palms, epiphyllums, succulents and other south african bulbs. email me at mysticgardn@yahoo.com for list of bulbs and plants for sale. For home and garden sculptures go to http://www.rjunkdrawer.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail From hkoopowi@uci.edu Fri Feb 27 14:16:41 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.2.20040227110906.00b434c8@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Boggled brain Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:16:30 -0800 Susan: Try Richard Doutt's book on Cape Bulbs. Harold At 10:37 AM 2/27/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Susan, try going to Overstock.com to purchase Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs >for about $40. Ann Marie > >Susan Hayek wrote:> >>If you are interested in >growing South African bulbs that are > >mostly from winter rainfall areas I highly recommend The Color > >Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs by John Manning, Peter Goldblatt, and Dee > >Snijman. > >**I'm rather overwhelmed by the amount of information offered on the pbs list. >Are there any other bulb books listers would recommend? >I put The Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs on my Amazon.com wish list. >Now to win the lottery. > >The only catalog I have on hand to use as reference is last year's >'Brent and Becky's Bulbs', and I do an occasional google search. >I am also entranced by the C. chrysanthus 'Prins Claus' pictured today. >All the photos, all of them, have been mind boggling. > >Too many plants to learn, too little time to grow them. > > >susan hayek >fortuna, northern coast of ca, (we can see a peek of water), Zone 9 >very very VERY windy tonight, my cuttings are taking a beating >-- >Owned by Jasper & Schubert the Standard Poodles, Pup-Quiz the >Basenji, puppy Basenji boy, Jones, & Gracie the Rhodesian > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > >Ann Marie > >So. California, San Gabriel Valley, Zone 21 (Sunset Western Garden book) , >influenced by both marine and interior air(Santa Ana winds). This makes it >perfect for Citrus trees and most So African plants. I collect and >sometimes sell belladonnas, nerines, oxalis, moraea, amaryllis, palms, >epiphyllums, succulents and other south african bulbs. email me at >mysticgardn@yahoo.com for list of bulbs and plants for sale. For home and >garden sculptures go to http://www.rjunkdrawer.com > > > > > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ConroeJoe@aol.com Fri Feb 27 18:59:47 2004 Message-Id: <7d.47c4df05.2d7133e7@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Leucojum, not Galanthus Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:59:35 EST Hi PBS, I sent a note saying my Galanthus was blooming this week. I was thinking one thing, but I wrote another. I have a pass-along Leucojum that is blooming this week. Cordially, From jshields104@insightbb.com Fri Feb 27 19:11:22 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040227190243.02ac5a18@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Leucojum, not Galanthus Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:04:24 -0500 Well, my Galanthus elwesii are in fact poking their flowers up through the layer of dead leaves that has been covering them. Neat! Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) At 06:59 PM 2/27/2004 -0500, Joe wrote: >Hi PBS, > >I sent a note saying my Galanthus was blooming this week. I was thinking one >thing, but I wrote another. I have a pass-along Leucojum that is blooming >this week. > >Cordially, ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From msittner@mcn.org Fri Feb 27 19:47:49 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040227162633.00b57630@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Upcoming Topics of the Week Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:47:08 -0800 Dear All, I want to thank Jim Waddick for sharing his introductions for Alpine-l on Galanthus, Narcissus, and Tulipa with our PBS list. I am sure the information was really helpful to a number of people on this list and I am very grateful to have had a month when I wasn't responsible. I am still hoping Paige, Kelly or Russell will tell us about which Tulips they sell do well in different parts of the country before this latest topic is done. Starting in March I am back in charge. Diane Whitehead will be once again suggesting what to do in March in the Northern Hemisphere. She is hoping that some of our Southern Hemisphere members will chime in as well with what to do there. The second week Robert Pries will give us an overview of Iris which is an amazing and complicated genus. He has promised to come up with a few provocative questions to stimulate the discussion. The following week I am resorting to favorite bulbs by color moving to another color that not everyone is fond of although I don't understand why, orange. So be preparing your lists. We have one already nominated from our yellow list, Bulbinella latifolia var. doleritica. Seeing it in bloom in Nieuwoudtville in a wet year was an awesome sight I will never forget so I am glad to know that someone is growing it successfully and able to nominate it for the favorite orange flowered bulb list. Pascal Vigneron from France who has a very good web site with Amaryllids as the focus will do the fourth week on Pancratium. And since there is part of a fifth week, Diane will once again do what to do, this time in April. While these topics are being discussed other conversations will go on as usual. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From totototo@pacificcoast.net Tue Feb 24 19:47:56 2004 Message-Id: <200402250047.i1P0lbol006620@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Metric conversions Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:54:47 -800 On 23 Feb 04 at 20:37, Angelo Porcelli wrote: > that's a useful link indeed. I am so used to Fahrenheit/Celsius > conversion at a point I read indifferently both. But what drives me > in the dark is something like 'plant it in a 3 gallon pot'. I have > never understood how big is a 3 gallon pot and its diameter. Also > British gallon is different from US one. If you need I can forward > you a table with size of pot in cm and its volume in liters, as used > in nursery trade here. To really frost the cake, a standard "one gallon" pot (as they are called in this area) holds about 2.5 liters -- half an imperial gallon, about 0.6 of a US fluid gallon. Madness! Madness! Where is Lady Macbeth to walk the walls tearing her hair when we need her? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From paige@hillkeep.ca Fri Feb 27 23:13:30 2004 Message-Id: <026401c3fdb1$422278e0$0e86fea9@m6u3j5> From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: Upcoming Topics of the Week Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 20:11:04 -0800 Mary Sue Ittner wrote: I am still > hoping Paige, Kelly or Russell will tell us about which Tulips they sell do > well in different parts of the country before this latest topic is done. Mary Sue, I've kept my head down because this is a crunch period what with spring startup, shipping, final arrangements on Jim Waddick's and my Peonies of China study-tour in April, and departure next week for the NARGS Western Winter Study Weekend in Oregon. (Cue violins). I haven't had tulip complaints. My website stresses that tulips need a cold winter and do not like a wet one. I don't think it's worthwhile to isolate particular species that do better in one part of the world than others. The needs of Tulipa species are more general. Some hybrids, typically found in garden centres, can take wet-winter, chocolate-soil, "non-Tulipa" conditions for a few years, but they gradually dwindle and require replacement. Nor have I have I kept track of who orders tulips as a special class, but off the top of my head many of them live in Mediterranean climates that sometimes drop below zero Centigrade, or in places with heavy snow such as Ontario and Quebec, eastern Washington and Oregon, the Rockies from Alberta to Colorado, Germany, eastern Europe and the Baltics, the former Soviet Union and (wait for it) Iran. So far no orders from Iraq! Rock gardeners who order species tulips tend to be aware already of how to control soil porosity and drainage with grit, rocks, overhead protection and what have you. I have some Tulipa that have been coming up for years. I think their main constraints are water in spring, and too much shade before they die down. They would rather have sun and a dry period that does not imply dessication, but rather faintly moist coolness in gritty soil with no additional water from above. I am very sorry but it cannot be that all who know a little about a subject contribute to it. Once again I must put my head down and withdraw. Paige Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sat Feb 28 10:02:15 2004 Message-Id: <148.233db1ba.2d72076d@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Getting through the first summer Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 10:02:05 EST Hi, I live in an area of hot and humid summers; I've lost winter-growers when I put seedlings outside for summer. I've also lost them if I let them go dormant; they just didn't have enough reserves for the first dormancy. Now, I keep them indoors under lights for the first summer if they are cranky sorts. I keep them on the dry side but still growing. I think they would like cooler nights than I give them, but as long as they have some air conditioning they mostly do OK. I keep wondering if there is a better way. Are there guidelines for how hot is too hot and how much humidity is too much? How do other folks in hot summer climates deal with this? Cordially, Joe, zone 9, Narcissus 'February Gold' is blooming in the lawn. From GEOPHYTE@sbcglobal.net Sat Feb 28 10:16:49 2004 Message-Id: From: GEOPHYTE@sbcglobal.net Subject: Getting through the first summer Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 10:16:48 -0500 I give the winter growers summer shade if they're in pots, but the best place to put them is probably in the ground. If that's not practical, maybe you could plunge the seedling pots into an earthen bed in the shade? Just how hot is it where you are? I'm in zone 9 near Berkeley, so the weather is maritime, and summer nights cool to under 60 degrees. Even so, winter growers in pots will suffer losses if given too much summer sun exposure. Jamie From msittner@mcn.org Sat Feb 28 10:21:32 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040228071701.0193bc20@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Getting through the first summer Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 07:20:52 -0800 Dear Joe, Could you give us some examples of what kinds of things you are talking about, i.e. those you lost before and which ones you are trying indoors? I suspect there may not be a general rule, but may depend on what you are growing and this information would help those in hot and humid climates answer your question. Mary Sue >Are there guidelines for how hot is too hot and how much humidity is too >much? From voltaire@islandnet.com Sat Feb 28 16:55:56 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Eranthis late emerging seedlings Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:55:45 -0800 My Eranthis hyemalis bloomed in January in the garden, and have finished flowering. I have several pots of seedlings, sown in 2001, sheltering in a cold frame. They have just come up again this week. This is the case of all the pots, even though the seeds came from a couple of sources, and would indicate that seedlings normally emerge much later than the mature plants. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From Blee811@aol.com Sat Feb 28 17:04:41 2004 Message-Id: <1c2.15b08789.2d726a6f@aol.com> From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: Eranthis late emerging seedlings Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:04:31 EST Eranthis just started blooming this week in SW Ohio. And I saw the first bluebird today, so spring can't be too far away. Bill Lee From jimmckenney@starpower.net Sat Feb 28 17:27:57 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040228172741.008665f0@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Eranthis late emerging seedlings Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:27:41 -0500 Eranthis hyemalis opened in my garden today. They have been out in a neighborhood garden for over a week. There is no sign yet of E. cilicica or the hybrids - that's usual here. Several crocus opened today, too, including Ruby Giant (generally attributed to C. tommasinianus but not much like it in my view). C. ancyrensis and C. korolkowii are just putting up buds. C. korolkowii blooms in mid-January in mild years. Most Galanthus are now up and blooming except for those in very shaded areas (where the ground is still frozen). One Hepatica nobilis form has a nice cluster of flower buds up, too. Ice is off the pond and the goldfish are sunning. Finally, things are poppin'. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, zone 7 From voltaire@islandnet.com Sat Feb 28 19:38:53 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: TOW N.H.Do in Mar.- Garden Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 16:38:50 -0800 I missed the Do in February but if any of you did something essential to your bulbs last month, please append it to your comments for March, and I'll put them in the right place when the file goes to the WIKI. ============================================================================== In general, but also for Pacific Northwest North America and Western Europe - PROTECT Go out at night with a flashlight so you can see and remove the slugs that would otherwise eat reticulata irises. MOVE Take note of any bulbs that have become shaded by the growth of nearby shrubs or trees and move them to a sunny spot. If the sun never shines on crocus or snowdrops, they won't open to reveal the interesting markings inside, and bees won't pollinate them, so you most likely won't get seed. Snowdrops and other bulbs that have formed big clumps can be dug up and spaced out or put in a new area. It is not necessary to do this while they are "in the green" (ie. still have their leaves), but it makes it easier to see where they are, and it is too easy to forget to do it later. POLLINATE Pollinate any rare bulbs. Many clones are self-sterile, so use pollen from a different plant, but be sure it really is a different clone, and not just an offset from the one you are pollinating. Use tweezers to remove a pollen-bearing anther, and dust it on the central pistil, except for iris, which has the stigmatic surface along the edge of a narrow "shelf" on the underside of the style arm, just above the stamens. You can also use Q-tips or a section of pipe cleaner and then throw them away. This is a lot cheaper than the advice to use artist's brushes. You will not get seeds or fertile pollen from the commercial Iris danfordiae which is a sterile triploid. FERTILIZE Fertilize bulbs. Most bulbs are gross feeders while they are in growth, because they must store nutrients for a good portion of the year. Fertilizers should be low, but not totally deficient, in nitrogen (the first number on a commercial fertilizer package). 6-10-10 is OK. Tomato food is good. Exception: western Erythroniums must not be fertilized, but the European E. dens-canis can be. However, Lester Rowntree, in Hardy Californians, described how strongly Erythroniums grew and flowered following one of the summer brushfires so common in California. She counted up to 25 blossoms on one stem. (presumably this was something like E. tuolumnense). On Vancouver Island, a good grower gives his Erythroniums extra potash. PLANT many Brodiaea species,if they weren't planted in October. Fall-blooming small bulbs: Leucojum autumnale and roseum, Scilla autumnalis Lilies - most lilies are better planted in the fall, but garden centres do sell them in the spring, and many of the scented slightly tender ones like the green and black nepalense or the long white trumpets of Easter lily types like longiflorum and philippinense should be planted now and will flower in August. Summer flowering bulbs can be planted from mid-month on. It's a good idea to stagger the times of planting so you will have flowers over a longer season. Callas, crocosmia, gladiolus, ranunculus, tigridia. Northern California (and southern Europe?) - In addition to the above, canna and dahlias can be planted. Southern California, low desert through to Texas (and Mediterranean?) - In addition to the above, Caladium, Canna and Crinum can be planted when the soil has warmed to 18 C (65 F). From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Sat Feb 28 20:05:34 2004 Message-Id: <40413B59.4050001@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Upcoming Topics of the Week Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:07:37 -0600 Dear Mary Sue et al.: I hesitate to comment on adaptability of the tulips I sell to all areas across the country. Species tulips are a popular part of my bulb brokering of fall bulbs. I carried a couple dozen species and some of their hybrids (or selections) last fall and the list will probably have a handful more next season. I can say these things, though. It is a good rule of thumb to expect most species tulips to do well up through zone 8. Many multiply well by bulb division, creating new generations of flowering bulbs year after year. I've only planted about half a dozen or so species, but they appear to do well for me. I got to take some good (I think) photos of some of these last year which can be seen in my gallery. I'm sorry this isn't more helpful. Except for my fall special order list, which is only available in May, I don't carry any hybrid tulips, and it is not my practice to use them in the landscape; personal preference (please, no hard feelings anybody). Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Dear All, > > I want to thank Jim Waddick for sharing his introductions for Alpine-l > on Galanthus, Narcissus, and Tulipa with our PBS list. I am sure the > information was really helpful to a number of people on this list and > I am very grateful to have had a month when I wasn't responsible. I am > still hoping Paige, Kelly or Russell will tell us about which Tulips > they sell do well in different parts of the country before this latest > topic is done. -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-366-4968 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From msittner@mcn.org Sun Feb 29 10:56:29 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040229073303.00d58100@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Cardamine photos Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 07:50:40 -0800 Dear All, I've talked before about my variegated Cardamine californica var. sinuata (tuberous) grown from seed a friend shared she had saved from a local population. Jane asked me to write something about it for NARGS. I've struggled to get good pictures and this year it has been looking especially nice. One of my hiking friends who visits from Oregon was interested in seeing them and he took pictures for me and Jane using a tripod and I have added them to the wiki. They are growing in an area I try to keep native and also don't water in summer growing under redwoods which is always a challenge. But this patch has been doing well. Companions: Oxalis oregana, Viola sempervirens, Chlorogalum pomeridianum, Lilium maritimum, Dicentra formosa, Vancouveria planipetala. I think the Lilium would like more light and the Dicentra in these conditions merely hangs on and does not spread and I've been unsuccessful getting any of the Trillium ovatum seed I've added there to come up and grow even though there are a few growing in our neighborhood in undeveloped areas. This year the Cardamine has really been floriferous making me give second thoughts about my sometimes saying that I grow this just for the leaves. It has been very delicate and beautiful. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/GeophyticCardamine I've sometimes said that this plant is my Northern California version of Cyclamen. It goes dormant late summer and reappears in December. Mary Sue From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sun Feb 29 14:54:56 2004 Message-Id: From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Getting through the first summer, an example Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:54:44 EST Hi, 2 years ago I had some Albuca seedlings, they started fine under lights, and did well when I first put them outdoors. I also germinated various Protea species over the winter, just to see what would happen. The Albuca seemed pitifully small and I didn't let them go dormant; I gave them bits of water over the summer--keeping them on the dry side. I would add 2-3 tablespoons of water to the pot every day or two. They got a few hours of morning sun, but nothing after 11:00 a.m. Of course the Protea species nearly all died, they were a wonderful demonstration of how different this climate is from their native climate. The Albuca started dying about mid- to late-July. They clearly had fungal problems, but I was surprises as they got little water in the soil. I concluded there was more water in the pumice at the bottom of the pot than I had realized. So, I'm thinking the best thing t do is grow them indoors where air conditioning modifies the temperature and reduces the humidity a bit. I did look up relative humidity ratings and was not surprised to find Houston at the top of the list along with New Orleans, Omaha, and Orlando. Houston even beat Orlando in nighttime relative humidity. I'm having great fun experimenting with these plants, but I wonder if the "first summer" problem happens for others growing summer dormant bulbs. LINK: Relative Humidity of some American Cities http://www.cityrating.com/relativehumidity.asp Cordially, Joe, zone 9, we haven't had frost since Feb. 7 when it was 27 F. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Feb 29 16:51:55 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040229134454.00ba3d28@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Sun break photos Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:51:50 -0800 Today I hurried out during a sun break (a weather term that seems to be indigenous to the Pacific Northwest) and photographed a whole lot of bulbs, then posted them on the wiki. I have some questions about two of them. First, here is another mystery Narcissus: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Narcissus_albidus_occidentalis.jpg There is a subsp. albidus of N. romieuxii, but I don't find occidentalis among the epithets of any member of the Bulbocodium section in the literature I have. Any ideas, Harold and Kathy? Second, here is a really serious mystery Sternbergia: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Sternbergia_sp._foliage.jpg The story of it is on the Photographs and Information page for Sternbergia. In short, it has yellow flowers in fall and utterly S. candida-like foliage in spring, and it was part of a batch of bulbs bought by Panayoti Kelaidis in the early 1990s, which apparently had been wild-dug because there were S. candida bulbs among them. Any ideas? The other items include: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Tulipa_orithyoides.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Iris_kuschakewiczii.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Narcissus_bulbocodium_nivalis.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Muscari_chalusicum.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Crocus_angustifolius_Bronze.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Fritillaria_carica_serpenticola.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Fritillaria_euboica.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Gagea_fibrosa.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Corydalis_henrikii.jpg I've requested a page be set up for Corydalis, which I'm sure many of us will be photographing in the coming weeks. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From jimmckenney@starpower.net Sun Feb 29 20:20:41 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20040229202021.00869610@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Iris danfordiae seed Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 20:20:21 -0500 Diane Whitehead wrote: >You will not get seeds or fertile >pollen from the commercial Iris danfordiae which is a sterile >triploid. Isn't there more than one commercial Iris danfordiae? I'm pretty sure I've had at least two forms at different times over the years. One had much narrower perianth segments than the other. Also, I know from personal experience that what was sold as Iris histrioides Major thirty years ago crossed readily with Iris danfordiae both ways. Nice fat seed pods resulted on both parents. And this has made me wonder if the usually-reported parentage for the hybrids Katherine Hodgkin and Frank Elder , namely Iris winogradowii x histrioides, is not a bluff. In fact, I think Katherine Hodgkin was originally reported to be histrioides x danfordiae. Last year I tried to repeat this cross using Iris Lady Beatrix Stanley and Iris danfordiae: this was a flop both ways. I'm not convinced that Lady Beatrix Stanley is "pure" Iris histrioides; in small ways it's different from the old Major form. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland zone 7, where Mother Nature was not bluffing today: lots of first earlies in bloom finally. From msittner@mcn.org Sun Feb 29 20:31:39 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040229172135.00e0d420@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Jane's Pictures Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 17:30:58 -0800 Dear All, If you want to see the leaves on Jane's Sternbergia go to the wiki page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Sternbergia She made a slight error in reporting the url. Jane always writes interesting things when she posts pictures on the wiki so it is good to access her pictures through the genus page so you can read all about them. I especially recommend looking at the three she added to the Fritillaria page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Fritillaria Fritillaria carica subsp. serpenticola, Fritillaria euboica, and Fritillaria stenanthera I found the latter amazing with all those flowers in one pot. I have set up Corydalis as a potential wiki page. All that one of you Corydalis enthusiasts has to do is to click on the question mark, write some introductory comments about it, and save what you have done. I'm looking forward to the pictures being added. Mary Sue From voltaire@islandnet.com Sun Feb 29 23:10:51 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Iris danfordiae seed Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 20:10:49 -0800 Maybe wild collected Iris danfordiae were sold many years ago, before they found the large-flowered triploid that multiplies so fast by bulbils - a nurseryman's dream. There is a picture of a diploid one here: http://www.rbgkew.org.uk/kewscientist/ks_apr97/news.html They say it is difficult to grow. I bought a diploid danfordiae from Alan McMurtrie of Ontario, Canada. This article describes his search for it in Turkey. http://www.reticulatas.com/Junos/TripToTurkey.html Diane Whitehead