>like Pelargonium. There are several plants that I >can't really tell if they are Eryngiums or Geraniums. >And, there were several Penstemons that I don't know >what the species is. John, I think you are likely meaning Erodiums, not Eryngiums. Totally different beasties to say the least <grin>. Certainly some of the Erodiums I cannot tell from Geranium species (something that I really love) and I for one woud love to knowwhat the real differences between them are. I grow a whole heap of species geraniums and their cultivars and the odd Erodium. I would have said that Erodiums were smaller until last couple of years when Erodium 'Spanish Eyes' came out here in Aus (probably years behind the UK and everyone else <grin>) and it looks just like some of the species geraniums hybrids in flower, but the leaves are finely cut and decidedly nice in their own right..... just like some of the species Pelargoniums. I'll be interested in hearing responses to this one, that is for sure. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!!