From totototo@telus.net Sat Jul 1 01:38:28 2006 Message-Id: <20060701053827.A2A4PVXJEV@priv-edtnaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: New Wiki Photos Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 22:36:40 -0700 I've added three pictures to the wiki with suitable commentary. 1. In the "Mystery" section, a lily that may be L. catesbaei. 2. Also in the "Mystery" section, an alstroemeria grown as A. hookeri but unlikely to be properly named. 3. Tropaeolum polyphyllum. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From ajbroome@xtra.co.nz Sat Jul 1 04:06:58 2006 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.2.20060701200057.0f591d50@pop3.xtra.co.nz> From: Andrew Broome Subject: Latest BX Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 20:06:54 +1200 Mary Sue said... > ... this white one has increased rapidly in my garden. That's interesting. The relatively commonly available clone of a white flowered Ox. purpurea in NZ is slow to reproduce for me. The bulbs get bigger but don't seem to divide readily. A new (to me) clone (U4a) seems to be reproducing nicely though, over the few years I've had it. > I suppose I should have put a warning next to the Oxalis > offerings about the addiction possibilities. Addictive? Whatever do you mean? :) See http://www.oxalis.org Andrew. http://www.freewebtown.com/oxalis/ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: 30/06/2006 From mark@marksgardenplants.com Sat Jul 1 04:56:45 2006 Message-Id: <001601c69cec$45559790$2c398c56@galanthophile> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Wiki pictures used without permission Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 09:56:41 +0100 Subject: Re: [pbs] Wiki pictures used without permission Has anyone ever looked at ebay for stolen images? I find my images on there every week. Obviously I cant search all the ebays across the world. I have a look at .com and .co.uk Some people remove them immediately some in a day or two and others send a very nasty email. You can tell ebay about copyright infringement by using this form http://pages.ebay.co.uk/vero/notice.html When it comes to web sites with stolen images they should be named and shamed. In the past I have found two web sites selling plants with images of Anemones, Iris and Geraniums all mine! Both blamed their web masters. Mark N Ireland From ashley.cooper@new.co.za Sat Jul 1 08:52:05 2006 Message-Id: <020d01c69d0d$131448f0$9370ef9b@mykecbcb148b69> From: "Myke Ashley-Cooper" Subject: [spam] Re: Wiki pictures used without permission Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 14:50:30 +0200 Almost off the subject is that my cartoons float around the world often with the urls removed and my signature erased . . . . I have given up hassling a long time ago! ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Smyth To: totototo@telus.net ; Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 10:56 AM Subject: [spam] Re: [pbs] Wiki pictures used without permission Subject: Re: [pbs] Wiki pictures used without permission Has anyone ever looked at ebay for stolen images? I find my images on there every week. Obviously I cant search all the ebays across the world. I have a look at .com and .co.uk Some people remove them immediately some in a day or two and others send a very nasty email. You can tell ebay about copyright infringement by using this form http://pages.ebay.co.uk/vero/notice.html When it comes to web sites with stolen images they should be named and shamed. In the past I have found two web sites selling plants with images of Anemones, Iris and Geraniums all mine! Both blamed their web masters. Mark N Ireland _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From CAMdon@aol.com Sat Jul 1 09:30:56 2006 Message-Id: <8C86B29B2CD8FCE-1820-2DCB@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com> From: camdon@aol.com Subject: [spam] Re: Wiki pictures used without permission Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 09:30:48 -0400 I believe the problem can be solved or at least better controlled by requiring passwords for downloading or uploading images to the wiki and restricting the password to members. Don -----Original Message----- From: Myke Ashley-Cooper To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 14:50:30 +0200 Subject: Re: [pbs] [spam] Re: Wiki pictures used without permission Almost off the subject is that my cartoons float around the world often with the urls removed and my signature erased . . . . I have given up hassling a long time ago! ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Smyth To: totototo@telus.net ; Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 10:56 AM Subject: [spam] Re: [pbs] Wiki pictures used without permission Subject: Re: [pbs] Wiki pictures used without permission Has anyone ever looked at ebay for stolen images? I find my images on there every week. Obviously I cant search all the ebays across the world. I have a look at .com and .co.uk Some people remove them immediately some in a day or two and others send a very nasty email. You can tell ebay about copyright infringement by using this form http://pages.ebay.co.uk/vero/notice.html When it comes to web sites with stolen images they should be named and shamed. In the past I have found two web sites selling plants with images of Anemones, Iris and Geraniums all mine! Both blamed their web masters. Mark N Ireland _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. From msittner@mcn.org Sat Jul 1 11:01:32 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060701074248.036b6ec8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: [spam] Re: Wiki pictures used without permission Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 08:01:13 -0700 I understand from a private message I received that the owner of the web site with the pirated pictures is very nice so hopefully when he returns from vacation he will contact me and we can resolve this. Our wiki software is quite a challenge to change. There is no way we can prevent people from downloading images. We want people to be able to see our images. Although our wiki serves as a place for our group to share pictures with each other, it so much more than that. Those of us who put in long hours adding images and text hope people will look at the pictures and read what we say. In fact it is kind of disappointing to those people who add pictures when no one responds even privately. On the other hand, we have reluctantly concluded that we are going to have to require passwords for uploading images and editing the wiki to prevent the spam. That will mean it won't really be a wiki anymore in the traditional sense where anyone who wants to can contribute. But it will mean that wiki administrators are not wasting their time taking off spam and others won't find porn links if they were put up before someone caught them and removed them. I will be contacting regular wiki contributors to discuss this off the list. Just in case I forget someone who wants to be included in this category you might email me privately if you want to get the message. And bouquets to Linda Foulis who has put in hours trying to come up with a solution and to Jay Yourch who has found one! Mary Sue >I believe the problem can be solved or at least better controlled by >requiring passwords for downloading or uploading images to the wiki and >restricting the password to members. From honeybunny442@yahoo.com Sat Jul 1 11:17:10 2006 Message-Id: <20060701151709.23911.qmail@web38310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Susan B Subject: [spam] Re: Wiki pictures used without permission Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 08:17:09 -0700 (PDT) Hello, I am new to the list, I live in Wisconsin (but I have been to Seattle, ha ha). I came over via a recommendation on the Aroid-L email list. I grow as many odd and unusual plants as I can without a greenhouse- a few orchids, many bulbous Aroids, and many, many Zantedeschia. I'm hooked on them and am probably borderline OCD as I feel I must have one of every named variety! Anyhow, I just wanted to say that the offending .de website belongs to a pretty nice guy who has given away and traded seeds often. I'm sure he'll take the photos down ASAP, I think people who "steal" photos are thinking more along the lines that people (ok, customers) would like to see what the flowers look like and he is only using the photos and not stealing them. I too, found someone using one of my photos on eBay, had a meltdown, emailed the offender, sent the proper forms to eBay, etc. Nothing was done, of course. Looking back I wonder why I fussed so much, I started a web page to show people what Aroids look like, after all. I spend a lot of time looking at flower bulbs sales (breeders, wholesale, and retail)on the internet, I notice that many use the same photo over and over, must be some copyright infringement there... you-all know what I mean- you google a plant image and 50 images come up, 25 are the same, but on different sites. Susan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jlongane@hotmail.com Sat Jul 1 11:58:10 2006 Message-Id: From: "John Longanecker" Subject: Mystery Lily Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 08:58:09 -0700 The Lilium looks like philadelphicum. John Longanecker, who doesn't have a L. philadelphicum. From norwesgard@earthlink.net Sat Jul 1 15:14:27 2006 Message-Id: <434AC2A3-F50E-4CE6-87C8-8C9156A49203@earthlink.net> From: Mary Gutierrez Subject: Dracunculus vulgaris Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 12:10:34 -0700 Hi all -- "Vulgaris" is the operative word, here. My large clump will be going dormant soon, so if anyone in the US would like to grow their own "Dragon Arum" please let me know. They are a fun plant to grow, so long as they aren't near an open window or doorway! I always have abundant tubers that I can pop in the mail. I read that they are hardy to zone 5b. Here in Seattle, their mottled stems emerge in February or March; they bloom in June and go dormant in July. Mary Gutierrez Seattle, WA Zone 8b (Last winter my low was 17F (-8C).) PS -- I don't know the rules about shipping overseas, hence the shipping in the US. If it is legal, I can send them anywhere. I'm sure some of you know more about this than I do. I'm fairly new to this group. From butterflyamaryllis@yahoo.com Sun Jul 2 12:11:51 2006 Message-Id: <20060702161151.93643.qmail@web33912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: [spam] Re: Wiki pictures used without permission Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:11:50 -0700 (PDT) good idea Don! Pdf files can't be downloaded without permission. I wonder how they do it. James Frelichowski camdon@aol.com wrote: I believe the problem can be solved or at least better controlled by requiring passwords for downloading or uploading images to the wiki and restricting the password to members. Don -----Original Message----- From: Myke Ashley-Cooper To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 14:50:30 +0200 Subject: Re: [pbs] [spam] Re: Wiki pictures used without permission Almost off the subject is that my cartoons float around the world often with the urls removed and my signature erased . . . . I have given up hassling a long time ago! ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Smyth To: totototo@telus.net ; Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 10:56 AM Subject: [spam] Re: [pbs] Wiki pictures used without permission Subject: Re: [pbs] Wiki pictures used without permission Has anyone ever looked at ebay for stolen images? I find my images on there every week. Obviously I cant search all the ebays across the world. I have a look at .com and .co.uk Some people remove them immediately some in a day or two and others send a very nasty email. You can tell ebay about copyright infringement by using this form http://pages.ebay.co.uk/vero/notice.html When it comes to web sites with stolen images they should be named and shamed. In the past I have found two web sites selling plants with images of Anemones, Iris and Geraniums all mine! Both blamed their web masters. Mark N Ireland _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. From butterflyamaryllis@yahoo.com Sun Jul 2 12:13:02 2006 Message-Id: <20060702161301.25775.qmail@web33910.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: Wiki pictures used without permission Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:13:01 -0700 (PDT) I also see people put their name into the photo. I wonder if we could do that with the pics in the wiki (and IBS?) James F. totototo@telus.net wrote: On 30 Jun 06, at 7:09, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > I came across my picture from the wiki of the plant I was working on a > commercial German site. It's the potential for this kind of piracy that has led me to put a copyright notice on each and every picture I contribute to the wiki. Not that I think this will make a devil of a lot of difference, but at least no one can say "I didn't know." In the interests of not obscuring the interesting part of each picture, I keep my copyright notices off in one corner. Of course this makes them easy to remove, but such is life. If the problem persists, it may become advisable for us all to put a watermark copyright notice smack across the face of the picture where it can't be trimmed off. This is actually fairly easy to do using masks and selective adjustment of hue, brightness, contrast, gamma, or whatever suits your fancy. Incidentally, the website is clearly the brainchild of an amateur whose understanding of "usability" is unusually shaky. Among other things, the long unindented list of plant names on the homepage is totally unworkable, while the site demands you have cookies turned on. Whoever built this site clearly doesn't have a clue, not about copyright, not about usability, and obviously not about acquiring and retaining customers. In a word, they're idiots and we shouldn't expect anything more than a seriously subnormal level of competence -- or is that incompetence? Those of you who have been victimized and who are in a malicious frame of mind may wish to simply send them a notice that your fee for unauthorized use of your pictures is X dollars per image, please send your payment in US dollars immediately or the bill will be turned over to a collection agency for action. I suggest that since the site is commercial, it would be reasonable to set X at $500 or so. Complaints to the ISP that hosts the site may also be in order, with the overt object of having the entire site taken offline. Don't get mad, get even. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. From mark@marksgardenplants.com Sun Jul 2 12:15:01 2006 Message-Id: <00a301c69df2$a9aa13e0$56948556@galanthophile> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: [spam] Re: Wiki pictures used without permission Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 17:14:57 +0100 what is the web site concerned so I can check to see if any of my images are on it? Mark N Ireland From totototo@telus.net Sun Jul 2 12:33:29 2006 Message-Id: <20060702163328.6E09XE8MX0@priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Wiki pictures used without permission Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:31:40 -0700 On 2 Jul 06, at 9:13, James Frelichowski wrote: > I also see people put their name into the photo. I wonder if we could > do that with the pics in the wiki (and IBS?) Adding your name to your pictures is easy as pie with any photo editing program. My copyright notice includes my name. Don't expect Mary Sue to do it; do it yourself. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@telus.net Sun Jul 2 12:33:30 2006 Message-Id: <20060702163328.85CCW62XL5@priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Mystery Lily Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:31:40 -0700 On 1 Jul 06, at 8:58, John Longanecker wrote: > The Lilium looks like philadelphicum. What are the distinctions between L. philadelphicum and L. catesbaei? And where does L. p. grow? I noted that L. c. grows in the same general neck of the woods as Iris lacustris. Still wondering how anyone could confuse the flakey seed of a lily with the granular seed of an iris, but I enjoy surprises and mysteries. At least this mystery plant didn't turn out to be Nothoscordum inodorum! -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From mark@marksgardenplants.com Sun Jul 2 12:36:58 2006 Message-Id: <00b301c69df5$bb26ac20$56948556@galanthophile> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Wiki pictures used without permission Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 17:36:55 +0100 I also see people put their name into the photo. I wonder if we could do that with the pics in the wiki (and IBS?) adding a name or a web site name is very easy using Photoshop. Using Picture Shark dozens of images can be copyrighted in seconds. A programme called Digi Mark adds a hidden copyright to the image but costs I think $600 a year. Using the programme you can search the internet for stolen images. It looks for the hidden code. Mark N Ireland From irisman@ameritech.net Sun Jul 2 12:59:16 2006 Message-Id: <00bb01c69df8$a4868f50$0100a8c0@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 42, Issue 2 Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 11:57:45 -0500 Rules about shipping plant materials overseas are determined largely by the country of destination--although we have some too--and they all differ. Nobody wants a new plague. Adam ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 11:00 AM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 42, Issue 2 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post: <mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive: <http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Dracunculus vulgaris (Mary Gutierrez) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 12:10:34 -0700 > From: Mary Gutierrez > Subject: [pbs] Dracunculus vulgaris > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <434AC2A3-F50E-4CE6-87C8-8C9156A49203@earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > Hi all -- > > "Vulgaris" is the operative word, here. My large clump will be going > dormant soon, so if anyone in the US would like to grow their own > "Dragon Arum" please let me know. They are a fun plant to grow, so > long as they aren't near an open window or doorway! I always have > abundant tubers that I can pop in the mail. I read that they are > hardy to zone 5b. > > Here in Seattle, their mottled stems emerge in February or March; > they bloom in June and go dormant in July. > > Mary Gutierrez > Seattle, WA Zone 8b (Last winter my low was 17F (-8C).) > > PS -- I don't know the rules about shipping overseas, hence the > shipping in the US. If it is legal, I can send them anywhere. I'm > sure some of you know more about this than I do. I'm fairly new to > this group. > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 42, Issue 2 > ********************************** > From lewisia@sbcglobal.net Sun Jul 2 13:00:55 2006 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060702095434.0235d608@sbcglobal.net> From: Joyce Miller Subject: Dracunculis vulgaris Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 10:00:16 -0700 Hi Mary, Would love to have a start of Dracunculis vulgaris. I had one once potted but it failed after blooming in Sacramento. Here, I can plant in the ground. My dogs are sure to love the odor. Please send to: Joyce Miller, 901 SE 208th Avenue Gresham, OR 97030. Kind regards, Joyce Miller Not sure of USDA zone here yet. just moved. Might be 7. From blweintraub1@earthlink.net Sun Jul 2 13:07:35 2006 Message-Id: <32598156.1151860055296.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: blweintraub1@earthlink.net Subject: Lilium formosanum v. pricei Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 11:07:35 -0600 (GMT-06:00) I just finished shooting a roll of film on a single bloom on a single stalk of Lilium formosanum v. pricei. I also covered the stigma with pollen in case moths and bees don't do their job. This is its third season in this new garden. Amazingly, it came through last winter (no snow) without supplemental water until April. I certainly hope it's as "weedy" as its reputation avows. - Barbara Weintraub Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA 6700' elevation From putman@pobox.upenn.edu Sun Jul 2 13:14:05 2006 Message-Id: <44A7FECA.70007@pobox.upenn.edu> From: Stephen Putman Subject: Hippeastrum breviflorum Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 13:13:46 -0400 Has anyone been successful in growing and flowering Hipp. breviflorum? If so, will you share some of your experience with it? I have tried keeping mine in its pot in a saucer of water, and it seems to be OK for a while and then loses its leaves. I'm now trying growing it like I grow my other Hippeastrum, over the saucer, so there is no standing water. Any experience based clues here would be welcomed. Regards, Steve Putman From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Jul 2 13:36:56 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20060702103409.00bf41a0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Dracunculis vulgaris Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 10:37:40 -0700 Joyce wrote, > Would love to have a start of Dracunculis vulgaris. I had >one once potted but it failed after blooming in Sacramento. Here, I >can plant in the ground. My dogs are sure to love the odor. Actually, even though the inflorescence of D. vulgaris smells like carrion to us humans, it apparently doesn't to the much more discriminating olfactory sense of dogs. My dogs have never seemed even to investigate this plant in flower, although when it blooms I always start out blaming the dogs for having concealed a dead mole somewhere nearby. There must be some component in the emanations of various aroids that stimulates pollinating insects, but even I can tell the "cow-manure-like" smell of certain species from the smell of real cow manure -- and my dogs haven't ever tried to roll in the arums, which unfortunately is their immediate response to real manure. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From haweha@hotmail.com Sun Jul 2 16:46:38 2006 Message-Id: From: "Hans-Werner Hammen" Subject: Hippeastrum breviflorum Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 20:46:32 +0000 >From: Stephen Putman >Has anyone been successful in growing and flowering Hipp. breviflorum? Hello Stephen: I regret that I do not possess this fine species knight star lily. Nevertheles, I am absolute sure that no hippeastrum can be reliably grown in standing water. Concluding from my very best experiences, the most recent example being http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/2564.jpg (2 y seedlings of H.papilio x "Pink Floyd", 75% blooming - one with 3 scapes à 4 flowers) I strongly recommend pure coco fiber substrate (coco peat from dry coco blocks) Even more perfect with a thick layer of baken clay bullets (Seramis or Lecaton) below. Water but from the bottom, every 2nd -4th day, with lukewarm water, including diluted mineral fertiilzer, rich in potassium, low in phosphorous, for example 4.5-3-7.5 at 1 mL/L, and water applying very variable amounts according to the actual demand. The uppermost cm's of the substrate should remain dry - permanently. The water transport through a Seramis layer proceeds slower, but finally no water should remain in the soucoupe. Good luck Hans-Werner From dells@voicenet.com Sun Jul 2 16:54:00 2006 Message-Id: <4238.209.71.21.3.1151873640.squirrel@webmail.voicenet.com> From: dells@voicenet.com Subject: Hippeastrum breviflorum Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 16:54:00 -0400 (EDT) How about H. angustifolium? I am absolute sure that no hippeastrum can be reliably grown in standing water. Dell From lizwat@earthlink.net Sun Jul 2 18:13:00 2006 Message-Id: <44A844E9.6070607@earthlink.net> From: Liz Waterman Subject: [spam] Re: Wiki pictures used without permission Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 15:12:57 -0700 James Frelichowski wrote: > >Pdf files can't be downloaded without permission. > I wonder how they do it. > > James Frelichowski > > >It is all too simple on a PC, Use the PrintScreen key and paste into any progam that will accept images. >Word or any photo editing program will do. > From jshaw@opuntiads.com Sun Jul 2 22:44:35 2006 Message-Id: <001f01c69e4a$9ee6eb60$6401a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: Mercer Arboretum Crinum Talk Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 21:44:33 -0500 Hi Gang, If you are in the Houston area and can attende, I will give a talk on "Crinums in East Texas" at Mercer Arboretum in Houston, TX on July 18, 2006. The major portion of my talk will be to describe what Crinum hybrids and breeding successes of Marcelle Sheppard over the past 50 years. LINK: Mercer Arborteum and Botanic Gardens http://www.hcp4.net/mercer/ The talk will begin at 11:00 a.m., on Tuesday, July 18. The talk will be informal and will be about 50 minutes with time for questions for another hour or so. LINK: Mercer Arboretum Summer Programs, see top of page 3, Crinum in East Texas http://www.hcp4.net/mercer/pdf/MercerSummerCalendar2006.pdf Cordially, Joe Shaw, Ph.D. From bears_pbs_01@mail.bonzabulbs.com Mon Jul 3 05:42:00 2006 Message-Id: <44A8E5E6.3010608@mail.bonzabulbs.com> From: David Subject: Hippeastrum Breviflorum Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 19:39:50 +1000 Steve, I tried to keep mine a little damp and it threatened to disolve. I note it could be kept through some (actively growing) months a little more moist but in the end I treat it like my other hippeastrums now and that works as well. I think I had my seedlings in loam. You'd need to adapt this for your climate but I think if you treat them as per your other hippies, they will be OK. David. Subtropical Australia. From dkramb@badbear.com Mon Jul 3 13:54:32 2006 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060703135143.01ac26f0@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: wildflower question Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 13:54:35 -0400 Forgive me for being OT, but I found a strange wildflower today that I have no idea what it might be. You folks are SO SMART that I bet one of you can tell me. :-) http://www.badbear.com/P7030003.JPG It's a very small flower on a very small plant, growing alongside a large stream, on a sandy bank. The flower is probably only about half an inch across (rough guess). The only thing that springs to mind is Lantana, but I know it's not that. Dennis in Cincinnati From buj.joschko@freenet.de Mon Jul 3 14:02:14 2006 Message-Id: From: "Hans und Babs Joschko" Subject: seeds of Galanthus and Cyclamen Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 20:02:33 +0200 Hi all , I have finished my seedlist with fresh seeds of Galanthus , Cyclamen and more , mostly from wild orgin . If anybody has interest please contact me privatly , I will only answer for interesting swap offers ,from some seeds are really few . My E - mail adress is : buj.joschko@freenet.de This is not a comercial offer - I like only swap . Many greetings Hans From plantlady@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Mon Jul 3 14:11:19 2006 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis - Beautiful Blooms" Subject: wildflower question Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 12:13:52 -0600 Dennis, Could it be Androsace sempervivoides? Linda Foulis Okotoks, AB Canada From rosemet@kornet.net Mon Jul 3 14:23:57 2006 Message-Id: <20060703182355.591D54C00B@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "rosemet" Subject: seeds of Galanthus and Cyclamen Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 03:23:48 +0900 From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Mon Jul 3 15:24:36 2006 Message-Id: <00ab01c69ed6$4f742700$62481b56@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: wildflower question Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 20:24:30 +0100 The Lantana guess is not far out: it is certainly something in the region of Lippia/Aloysia/Phyla in Verbenaceae. If it is a low prostrate plant with the flower heads borne about 1-2 inches above the ground it could be Phyla nodiflora, often seen in (rock-) gardening literature as Lippia nodiflora. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk > > http://www.badbear.com/P7030003.JPG > > It's a very small flower on a very small plant, growing alongside a > large stream, on a sandy bank. The flower is probably only about > half an inch across (rough guess). > > The only thing that springs to mind is Lantana, but I know it's not that. > > From c-mueller@tamu.edu Mon Jul 3 17:23:28 2006 Message-Id: <44A944520200008A0000290C@ag.tamu.edu> From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: wildflower question Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 16:22:42 -0500 Dennis....where do you live? If it's small, it might be a frogfruit (Phyla nodiflora, if it's in Texas) that looks rather like a lantana, and is in the same family (Verbenaceae). Good butterfly plant, supports some caterpillars, too. -Cynthia Mueller >>> Dennis Kramb 07/03/06 12:54 PM >>> Forgive me for being OT, but I found a strange wildflower today that I have no idea what it might be. You folks are SO SMART that I bet one of you can tell me. :-) http://www.badbear.com/P7030003.JPG It's a very small flower on a very small plant, growing alongside a large stream, on a sandy bank. The flower is probably only about half an inch across (rough guess). The only thing that springs to mind is Lantana, but I know it's not that. Dennis in Cincinnati _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jshields104@insightbb.com Mon Jul 3 18:15:30 2006 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20060703181455.0330cf70@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Hymenocallis woelfleana advice needed Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 18:15:37 -0400 I have a small -- very small! -- bulb of Hymenocallis woelfleana. It is starting to leaf out just now. It does not seem to get any bigger, and every spring I fear that I am going to lose it. I am currently growing it in a 1-gal. plastic container, outdoors, under dappled shade. In winter, it is kept quite dry and in the cool greenhouse, temperatures never quite dropping to 32°F (0°C). It tends to hold it leaves until very early spring, when they yellow off. Does anyone grow this successfully in cultivation? How should this species be grown? Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) where the hot, humid summer has arrived ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From dkramb@badbear.com Mon Jul 3 21:07:45 2006 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060703210539.01f53450@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: wildflower question Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 21:07:49 -0400 See... I *knew* you guys would be smart & know it. I consulted the plants.usda.gov website and my suspicion is that it's Phyla lanceolata. It's one of the few species that reaches into Ohio. The missouriplants.com website has a great page on it, and the leaves seem to match the ones in my own pictures. http://www.missouriplants.com/Whiteopp/Lippia_lanceolata_page.html I find it interesting it's considered a common wildflower, and I've never encountered anything like it before today. I thought for sure it was an exotic species. Boy was I wrong! Thanks everyone!!! Dennis in Cincy From boutin@goldrush.com Mon Jul 3 21:47:01 2006 Message-Id: <008901c69f0b$cf17add0$9f3d7143@homecomputer> From: "boutin" Subject: Fw: Shilka orchid iris Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 18:47:23 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: "boutin" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:24 PM Subject: Shilka orchid iris > Was leafing through a 1939 Carl A. Hansen Nursery catalog from Brookings, > South Dakota, and noticed the offer of "Hansen's new Shilka everblooming > orchid Iris. The offer was derived from collections made by Carl A. > Hansen near the town of Shilka, in the wilds of Siberia. > > Description says it bloomed 6-8 weeks after all other irises were gone. > Wide spreading blooms, single or double, in delicate tones of orchid and > blue, mingled with creamy white. Delicately fragrant. > > What Iris species is this? > > Fred Boutin > From samclan@redshift.com Tue Jul 4 01:18:17 2006 Message-Id: <003201c69f23$1b9291e0$4d012a42@authoriu> From: "samclan" Subject: wildflower question Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 21:34:14 -0700 It's a lot better looking than lantana, but I don't recognize it. Shirley Meneice, Pebble Beach, CA, ex-Chicago and Kansas City ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Kramb" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 10:54 AM Subject: [pbs] wildflower question > Forgive me for being OT, but I found a strange wildflower today that > I have no idea what it might be. You folks are SO SMART that I bet > one of you can tell me. :-) > > http://www.badbear.com/P7030003.JPG > > It's a very small flower on a very small plant, growing alongside a > large stream, on a sandy bank. The flower is probably only about > half an inch across (rough guess). > > The only thing that springs to mind is Lantana, but I know it's not that. > > Dennis in Cincinnati > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > -- ---------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1806 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len From Theladygardens@aol.com Tue Jul 4 02:52:46 2006 Message-Id: <543.1cfe7e0.31db6a33@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Off Topic, a floral card from friend, thought I'd share Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 02:52:35 EDT _http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=HY45336821_ (http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=HY45336821) From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Jul 4 11:13:37 2006 Message-Id: <000701c69f7c$6b962180$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: canine response to floral scents; was : RE: Dracunculis vulgaris Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 11:13:34 -0400 The dogs here have generally ignored not only the stinky aroids but flowers in general. However, I remember one notable exception where one of our dogs took a keen and prolonged interest in a flower. We had kept the runt of a litter years ago; she grew into a slightly deformed, snaggle-toothed, scraggly haired, repellent-looking little beast who generally evoked peals of laughter from people seeing her for the first time. She was also one of the sweetest dogs we have ever had and out-lived her litter mates. While working in the garden one day, I was amused to see her thoughtfully -or so it seemed - sniffing a flower of Trillium erectum, aka Stinking Benjamin or Wet Dog Trillium. She seemed to be deep in thought, or in a trance, as she did this. She would put her nose up to the flower and keep it there for a few minutes, then draw away and stand there for awhile looking intently at the flower. Then she would go back to the flower. She made no attempt to bite the flower or lick it or eat it; she just stood there looking at it and apparently smelling it. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where we are nearing the height of the season for the modern super lilies. From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Tue Jul 4 11:30:14 2006 Message-Id: <9170028E-139E-4B9F-A7A6-53AC69081A3B@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Off Topic, a floral card from friend, thought I'd share Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 08:33:50 -0700 On Jul 3, 2006, at 11:52 PM, Theladygardens@aol.com wrote: > _http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=HY45336821_ > (http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=HY45336821) Very nice. Speaking of state flowers, I assume that we and other countries have national flowers as well. (And do each of the Australian states have state flowers as well? What about provincial flowers for countries like Canada or South Africa? Do other nations have different flowers for each national subdivision--like each country in the UK?) What are the ones for those on the list? (For example, I don't know what the USA national flower is, although I suspect it's the rose.) Are any of them geophytes? They went by too fast in the presentation for me to identify them all, but for example, it looked like Utah's state flower is a Calochortus species. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA, USDA Zone 10a From faeden4444@sbcglobal.net Tue Jul 4 11:55:22 2006 Message-Id: <20060704155521.67193.qmail@web82203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Marilyn Pekasky Subject: Off Topic, a floral card from friend, thought I'd share Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 08:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Great card! Thank you! To see the identification of each of the flowers shown on the card, click on "Skip to End," then "To see your State Flower click here." A list of the states will come up. Click on a state and the flower's picture will come up WITH its identification. You were right, Lee: Our national flower is the Rose. A partial list of national emblems (including animals, people, etc. as well as plants) for other countries can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_flower http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floral_emblem (Australian states/territories) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provincial_and_territorial_symbols (Canadian provinces) Lee Poulsen wrote: On Jul 3, 2006, at 11:52 PM, Theladygardens@aol.com wrote: > _http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=HY45336821_ > (http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=HY45336821) Very nice. Speaking of state flowers, I assume that we and other countries have national flowers as well. (And do each of the Australian states have state flowers as well? What about provincial flowers for countries like Canada or South Africa? Do other nations have different flowers for each national subdivision--like each country in the UK?) What are the ones for those on the list? (For example, I don't know what the USA national flower is, although I suspect it's the rose.) Are any of them geophytes? They went by too fast in the presentation for me to identify them all, but for example, it looked like Utah's state flower is a Calochortus species. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA, USDA Zone 10a _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From john@johnlonsdale.net Tue Jul 4 12:28:58 2006 Message-Id: <001101c69f86$f2382e40$6801a8c0@XPS400> From: "John T Lonsdale" Subject: Perlite substitute? Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 12:28:55 -0400 For years I've used perlite in my bulbs compost, to very good effect. I use Supercoarse grade and sieve it to get rid of the fines. Over the past couple of years I've noticed a trend towards more fines and less Supercoarse particles - to the point where, today, I spent 45 minutes sieving 8 cubic feet of perlite and ended up with less than 50% by volume of sieved material I can use. This seems to be a waste of time and energy and a misrepresentation by the manufacturer of the perlite (Schundler). Is there anything out there that anyone has practical experience with that I can substitute directly for the perlite? I use about 50% perlite in my mix and don't want to have to learn a whole new watering regime unless I have to. Thanks and happy 4th. J. John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From eob@peak.org Tue Jul 4 12:45:30 2006 Message-Id: From: "Ernie O'Byrne" Subject: Perlite substitute? Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 09:44:58 -0700 I've noticed the same thing here on the West coast, John. Inquiries to the company were not helpful. I do hope that you are wearing a well-fitting dust mask when you do the sieving. Perlite dust has been implicated in lung disease, I believe. Ernie O'Byrne Northwest Garden Nursery 86813 Central Road Eugene, ORegon 97402 USA USDA Z. 7B "Most stern moralists are in the habit of thinking of pleasure as only of the senses, and, when they eschew the pleasures of sense, they do not notice that the pleasures of power, which to men of their temperament are far more attractive, have not been brought within the ban of their ascetic self-denial." -- Bertrand Russell -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of John T Lonsdale Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 9:29 AM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: [pbs] Perlite substitute? For years I've used perlite in my bulbs compost, to very good effect. I use Supercoarse grade and sieve it to get rid of the fines. J. John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From irisman@ameritech.net Tue Jul 4 13:00:59 2006 Message-Id: <001101c69f8a$b8646bd0$0100a8c0@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: OT wildflower question. Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 11:55:56 -0500 It certainly looks like Lippia to me. In California they used to make lawns of it. Much beloved of bees--so many on there sometimes one didn't ever walk barefoot on THOSE lawns. Is there enough to transplant? As I remember-- it spread by runners. Adam in Glenview, IL From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Jul 4 13:03:54 2006 Message-Id: <000301c69f8b$d3ae8be0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Fw: Shilka orchid iris Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 13:03:51 -0400 Hi, Fred, I'm glad you ran this one again. I've been searching through a variety of circa WWII gardening material in search of another reference to orchid iris or Shilka everblooming orchid iris. So far, nothing has come up. There are hits for Shilka (a town and a river in southeastern Russia). Does that Hansen catalog give an illustration? If so, can you scan it and send it out? How exactly is this plant described in the catalog? Jim McKenney From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Jul 4 13:25:08 2006 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Fw: Shilka orchid iris Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 10:24:58 -0700 These are the iris species listed on Dr. Berkutenko's seedlist for 2006: http://www.meconopsis.st/Berkutenko.html Iris biglumis Iris ensata (I.kaempferi): To 80 cm h. Fls purplish-violet with yellow spots. Ussurian meadows. Iris glaucescens Iris humilis Iris laevigata: Lvs are longer than stems. Fls 15 cm, blue. Wet places. Iris monieri Iris pallasii Iris potaninii Iris salina, Baikal lake area Iris setosa: Siberia Smaller than above but much less capricious. Iris sibirica Iris variegata From totototo@telus.net Tue Jul 4 13:29:10 2006 Message-Id: <20060704172907.390AW35QP3@priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Plants Missing from the Wiki Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 10:27:18 -0700 The other day I added an image and brief writeup on Tropaeolum polyphyllum to the wiki. I was surprised this well-known, fairly common plant wasn't documented earlier. What other obvious candidates for wikification are there? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From msittner@mcn.org Tue Jul 4 14:17:16 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060704110616.02337fe8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Plants Missing from the Wiki Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 11:16:57 -0700 Hi, When we were doing the topic of the week and everyone was listing their favorite bulbs by color, I linked wiki pictures to the favorite lists I compiled. There were a lot of plants that were favorites that we didn't have photos of on the wiki. I made a list of favorite missing images and when they are added (if I remember) I add the link. There were a lot of favorite cultivars and we don't often have them on the wiki unless someone adds them. People might want to look through the favorites I compiled on this wiki page and see if they have photos of any of them. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/FavoriteBulbs Mary Sue From gardenersview@earthlink.net Tue Jul 4 14:43:02 2006 Message-Id: From: "sekkei" Subject: Perlite substitute? Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 11:43:01 -0700 How about pumice? I have used it for many mixes here in California. The brand I use is from UNI-GROW? It comes in two sometimes three grades. Some batches need sifting, again respiratory precautions necessary. It is a little heavier but works well for me. Terence Hernstrom Kimberly Crest House & Gardens Redlands CA -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of John T Lonsdale Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 9:29 AM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: [pbs] Perlite substitute? For years I've used perlite in my bulbs compost, to very good effect. I use Supercoarse grade and sieve it to get rid of the fines. Over the past couple of years I've noticed a trend towards more fines and less Supercoarse particles - to the point where, today, I spent 45 minutes sieving 8 cubic feet of perlite and ended up with less than 50% by volume of sieved material I can use. This seems to be a waste of time and energy and a misrepresentation by the manufacturer of the perlite (Schundler). Is there anything out there that anyone has practical experience with that I can substitute directly for the perlite? I use about 50% perlite in my mix and don't want to have to learn a whole new watering regime unless I have to. Thanks and happy 4th. J. John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From gardenersview@earthlink.net Tue Jul 4 14:59:51 2006 Message-Id: From: "sekkei" Subject: Plant of the summer, so far. Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 11:59:50 -0700 A plant I have gotten so much joy from this summer is, Kniphofia galpinii "Orange Flame". Planted three years ago it has matured into a 3'X 3' clump that has bloomed continuously for 4 months. Blooms are a dark coral orange with at least ten to twelve spikes blooming or emerging. What a great perennial! I know it is not a true geophyte but Kniphofias are on the list. Just when you start to feel a little jaded, what fun to find a new treasure! Terence Hernstrom Kimberly Crest House & Gardens Redlands CA (Where the temperature is hitting the century mark very regularly.) From john@johnlonsdale.net Tue Jul 4 15:00:42 2006 Message-Id: <000701c69f9c$141394e0$6801a8c0@XPS400> From: "John T Lonsdale" Subject: Perlite substitute? Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 15:00:12 -0400 I'd love to use pumice, and would have done so a long time back, but we have no source within a reasonable distance. I envy those who can get it locally! Best, John John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From ron_redding@hotmail.com Tue Jul 4 15:43:08 2006 Message-Id: From: "Ronald Redding" Subject: Perlite substitute? Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 05:43:02 +1000 Dear John, I thought I would throw in something that some people in this group may be interested in and it is flyash or qloxinty. This is the bi-product from such industry as iron smeltering and energy production from fossil fuels. I have been using this product in my part of the world with many plants in my collection for about three years and found it to be superiour to anything I have tried on some plants. The growth rates that I have on my collection of worsleya is second to none, that I have seen, since I started using a 50% mix. I am fortunate in that I can purchase it already graded to between 4 and 10mm particles, anyone in my neighbourhood can drop in and see it for themselves. Kind Regards and Best Wishes Ron Redding Hervey Bay Australia >From: "John T Lonsdale" >Reply-To: john@johnlonsdale.net,Pacific Bulb Society > >To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" >Subject: Re: [pbs] Perlite substitute? >Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 15:00:12 -0400 > >I'd love to use pumice, and would have done so a long time back, but we >have >no source within a reasonable distance. I envy those who can get it >locally! > >Best, > >John > >John T Lonsdale PhD >407 Edgewood Drive, >Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA > >Home: 610 594 9232 >Cell: 484 678 9856 >Fax: 801 327 1266 > >Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net > >USDA Zone 6b > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _________________________________________________________________ realestate.com.au: the biggest address in property http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au From jshaw@opuntiads.com Tue Jul 4 15:58:33 2006 Message-Id: <3453776.1152043086627.JavaMail.vmail@service3.colo.trueswitch.com> From: jshaw@opuntiads.com Subject: conroejoe@aol.com has a new email address Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 15:58:06 -0400 (EDT) From bears_pbs_01@mail.bonzabulbs.com Tue Jul 4 16:24:43 2006 Message-Id: <44AACE71.8060407@mail.bonzabulbs.com> From: David Subject: Off Topic, a floral card from friend, thought I'd share Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 06:24:17 +1000 Howdy, I don't believe any of our state flowers are bulbs. Pictures and information of most of the state flowers of Australia are at: http://www.aussie-info.com/identity/flora/index.php Our national flower is the Golden Wattle. This site is good for an overview of all things aussie: http://www.enchantedlearning.com/school/Australia/Ausmap.shtml Rgds, David. Central Coast, NSW, Australia. From boutin@goldrush.com Tue Jul 4 16:37:44 2006 Message-Id: <002401c69fa9$be58fc30$203d7143@homecomputer> From: "boutin" Subject: Fw: Shilka orchid iris Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 13:37:55 -0700 Hi, Jim, Thanks for the reply. I was puzzled by the Carl Hansen Iris introduction, "Shilka Iris", but didn't think to look in the Iris Check List for this Iris as a cultivar. There it is as a cultivar, even though it is a seed strain with both singles and doubles. 'Shilka', from seed collected Shilka region,...; form of Iris dichotoma. So that answers my question. It must be very hardy. The Shilka River is east of Lake Baikal. The catalog has gone into hiding. When it resurfaces I will try for a scan. It was difficult to tell much from the illustration other than single and double flowers. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McKenney" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 10:03 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Fw: Shilka orchid iris > Hi, Fred, I'm glad you ran this one again. > > I've been searching through a variety of circa WWII gardening material in > search of another reference to orchid iris or Shilka everblooming orchid > iris. > > So far, nothing has come up. There are hits for Shilka (a town and a river > in southeastern Russia). > > Does that Hansen catalog give an illustration? If so, can you scan it and > send it out? > > How exactly is this plant described in the catalog? > > Jim McKenney > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From jshaw@opuntiads.com Tue Jul 4 17:05:23 2006 Message-Id: <002701c69fad$9241eb30$6401a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: A bit off topic, Beschorneria Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 16:05:23 -0500 Hi Gang, I don't think Beschorneria qualify as geophytes, but I grow some among my bulbs and find they fit right in as long as they have good drainage. Sometimes, Poltianthes (a relative) are accorded geophyte status. Anyway, I wonder if folks out there have a few seeds of hardy Beschorneria types (hybrids are fine), or know where to order such seeds. A few years ago I got some seeds from Peckerwood Garden, but I've never seen seed offered again. However, I did get some from a garden email friend in New Zealand. Cordially, Conroe Joe (Hot and humid in Conroe, more rain, the Crinum seem to love this weather as long as they don't get leaf spots). From dkramb@badbear.com Tue Jul 4 17:47:29 2006 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060704174138.01f5fa18@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: doggy smells Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:47:32 -0400 Hi Jim, group, etc. This is in poor taste to mention, but what the heck. I have a fungus in my garden that graces me with its presence on hot humid (extremely humid) summer days. It's bright orange and resembles a male dog's male organ. In fact, I think that's what the scientific name for it was based on. It's been years since I looked it up on internet, so my memory might be a bit fuzzy. It has an overpowering smell. Not exactly pleasant. Not exactly unpleasant. Suffice it to say, I can tell when one of them is out the instant I step outside the front door. LOL. (I've smelled it twice so far this year.) It sure makes a great conversation starter when I have visitors remark upon the ... unique ... smell of my garden on those special days. LOL. Dennis in Cincinnati (where we're getting some MUCH needed rain) From putman@pobox.upenn.edu Tue Jul 4 17:50:17 2006 Message-Id: <44AAE27D.5010107@pobox.upenn.edu> From: Stephen Putman Subject: doggy smells Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:49:49 -0400 They are also known as "dog stinkhorn" Dennis Kramb wrote: > Hi Jim, group, etc. > > This is in poor taste to mention, but what the heck. I have a fungus > in my garden that graces me with its presence on hot humid (extremely > humid) summer days. It's bright orange and resembles a male dog's > male organ. In fact, I think that's what the scientific name for it > was based on. It's been years since I looked it up on internet, so > my memory might be a bit fuzzy. > > It has an overpowering smell. Not exactly pleasant. Not exactly > unpleasant. Suffice it to say, I can tell when one of them is out > the instant I step outside the front door. LOL. (I've smelled it > twice so far this year.) It sure makes a great conversation starter > when I have visitors remark upon the ... unique ... smell of my > garden on those special days. LOL. > > Dennis in Cincinnati (where we're getting some MUCH needed rain) > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From pollards@adelphia.net Tue Jul 4 17:51:56 2006 Message-Id: <9221398.1152049916302.JavaMail.root@web26> From: Subject: A bit off topic, Beschorneria Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 14:51:56 -0700 > I don't think Beschorneria qualify as geophytes, but I grow some among my > bulbs and find they fit right in as long as they have good drainage. > > Anyway, I wonder if folks out there have a few seeds of hardy Beschorneria > types (hybrids are fine), or know where to order such seeds. Yucca Do Nursery used to sell plants of several different species, but they're down to just Beschorneria septentrionalis last time I checked. The J.L. Hudson, Seedsman catalog periodically has Beschorneria seeds; its address and info is online. Shawn Pollard Yuma, AZ From marie-paule.opdenakker@pandora.be Tue Jul 4 17:59:44 2006 Message-Id: <002f01c69fb5$02a03ab0$6c5aa451@kieken> From: "Marie-Paule" Subject: flyash Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 23:58:40 +0200 Hello, I read in the link here http://edugreen.teri.res.in/explore/air/flyash.htm that flyash is also bad for health? does someone know of it more? Regards, Marie-Paule From jshaw@opuntiads.com Tue Jul 4 18:14:06 2006 Message-Id: <001801c69fb7$2c57f030$6401a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: perlite, pumice, Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 17:14:07 -0500 Hi Gang, I can only second the frustration voiced by John Lonsdale. I cannot find good perlite, and a search for pumice revealed no suppliers within 200 miles of Houston, TX area. Neither the bonsai society nor the various cactus societies had good leads. I've given up on finding good perlite (or pumice), and have started using substitutes; I don't know if they are the best, but they are the best in terms of availability and my willingness to spend money. I use scoria (lava rock such as is used for landscaping) and Styrofoam peanuts. Both have drawbacks and benefits for me. Styrofoam peanuts are essentially free for me from my workplace. Because it is so rainy here, I plant cacti, some bulbs, and many agaves, etc., directly in scoria. I fill the container with scoria, or a mix of scoria and Styrofoam peanuts. Then, I pour a soil mix over the chunks. Sometimes, the soil mix is only 10-15% organic matter, so the whole affair is really 100% scoria (by volume), with other materials filling some of the interstices. Along with fungicides, extra water in dry periods, and other measures, this seems to satisfy many xeric plants. The whole perlite size-reduction issue is perplexing. I wonder if we plant growers who have noticed the difference just don't provide a large enough market for the vendors. I've tried some other possible subsitutes such as Turface, and find that expanded clays hold too much water. Drystall is one option (horse bedding material made from volcanic aggregates), but it is apparently not offered in this area. Cordially, Joe From boutin@goldrush.com Tue Jul 4 18:21:05 2006 Message-Id: <005d01c69fb8$3aadb7e0$203d7143@homecomputer> From: "boutin" Subject: Fw: Shilka orchid iris Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 15:21:37 -0700 Thanks Diane for the link to Dr. Berkutenko's seed list for 2006. He has an interesting selection. Have you or others successfully received seed from him, and does the seed have good viability? Shilka Orchid Iris turns out are forms of Iris dichotoma. Fred From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Jul 4 18:35:01 2006 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Fw: Shilka orchid iris Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 17:28:02 -0500 Dear Fred; I did some research here and meant to reply earlier. UNfortunately it beats me. I can locate Shilka, but no orchid-like iris - Maybe I. laevigata with a large and more purple flower. Not much. Jim W. ps - Now I see your ID as I dichotoma. Although the typical flowers are sort of 'orchid' in color, they are among the smaller iris flowers native there. There are numerous flowers per stalk and held high above the foliage in mid-summer at a time when no other iris is likely to be blooming. They are very hardy. I have seen them in Inner Mongolia in abundance. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From boutin@goldrush.com Tue Jul 4 18:40:24 2006 Message-Id: <006801c69fba$f05fc720$203d7143@homecomputer> From: "boutin" Subject: perlite, pumice, Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 15:41:00 -0700 Even out here in my rural part of California it is difficult to buy large bags of the coarse graded perlite. They seem to only have or want to deliver the so called medium, which has lots of fines in it. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Shaw" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 3:14 PM Subject: [pbs] perlite, pumice, > Hi Gang, > > I can only second the frustration voiced by John Lonsdale. I cannot find > good perlite, and a search for pumice revealed no suppliers within 200 miles > of Houston, TX area. Neither the bonsai society nor the various cactus > societies had good leads. > > I've given up on finding good perlite (or pumice), and have started using > substitutes; I don't know if they are the best, but they are the best in > terms of availability and my willingness to spend money. I use scoria (lava > rock such as is used for landscaping) and Styrofoam peanuts. Both have > drawbacks and benefits for me. Styrofoam peanuts are essentially free for > me from my workplace. > > Because it is so rainy here, I plant cacti, some bulbs, and many agaves, > etc., directly in scoria. I fill the container with scoria, or a mix of > scoria and Styrofoam peanuts. > > Then, I pour a soil mix over the chunks. Sometimes, the soil mix is only > 10-15% organic matter, so the whole affair is really 100% scoria (by > volume), with other materials filling some of the interstices. Along with > fungicides, extra water in dry periods, and other measures, this seems to > satisfy many xeric plants. > > The whole perlite size-reduction issue is perplexing. I wonder if we plant > growers who have noticed the difference just don't provide a large enough > market for the vendors. I've tried some other possible subsitutes such as > Turface, and find that expanded clays hold too much water. Drystall is one > option (horse bedding material made from volcanic aggregates), but it is > apparently not offered in this area. > > > Cordially, > > Joe > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From xerics@cox.net Tue Jul 4 19:12:42 2006 Message-Id: <002401c69fbf$551139c0$0ef8b546@richard> From: "Richard" Subject: Perlite substitute? Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 16:12:33 -0700 >From whom do you buy this graded pumice? ----- Original Message ----- From: "sekkei" To: ; "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Perlite substitute? > How about pumice? I have used it for many mixes here in California. The > brand I use is from UNI-GROW? It comes in two sometimes three grades. > Some > batches need sifting, again respiratory precautions necessary. It is a > little heavier but works well for me. > > Terence Hernstrom > Kimberly Crest House & Gardens > Redlands CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of John T Lonsdale > Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 9:29 AM > To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' > Subject: [pbs] Perlite substitute? > > > For years I've used perlite in my bulbs compost, to very good effect. I > use > Supercoarse grade and sieve it to get rid of the fines. Over the past > couple of years I've noticed a trend towards more fines and less > Supercoarse > particles - to the point where, today, I spent 45 minutes sieving 8 cubic > feet of perlite and ended up with less than 50% by volume of sieved > material > I can use. This seems to be a waste of time and energy and a > misrepresentation by the manufacturer of the perlite (Schundler). > > > > Is there anything out there that anyone has practical experience with that > I > can substitute directly for the perlite? I use about 50% perlite in my > mix > and don't want to have to learn a whole new watering regime unless I have > to. > > > > Thanks and happy 4th. > > > > J. > > > > John T Lonsdale PhD > 407 Edgewood Drive, > Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA > > Home: 610 594 9232 > Cell: 484 678 9856 > Fax: 801 327 1266 > > Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at > > http://www.edgewoodgardens.net > > USDA Zone 6b > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From boutin@goldrush.com Tue Jul 4 19:48:43 2006 Message-Id: <007c01c69fc4$7fad0650$203d7143@homecomputer> From: "boutin" Subject: Fw: Shilka orchid iris Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 16:49:26 -0700 Jim, Thanks for your observations on Iris dichotoma. "Orchid Iris" does suggest a certain substantial size. The catalog skillfully leaves the flower size to the buyer's imagination. What is your experience or guess for a USDA hardiness zone for this Iris from far eastern Russia/northern Mongolia area? Fred From ggroiti@mail.agro.uba.ar Tue Jul 4 19:58:04 2006 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060704205506.01afc600@mail.agro.uba.ar> From: German Roitman Subject: Off Topic, a floral card from friend, thought I'd share Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 20:58:15 -0300 Dear David: The kangaroo paw (Anigozanthos) are beatifull and very extrange bulb plants from Australia. http://www.aussie-info.com/identity/flora/kangapaw.php Best wishes Germán At 17:24 04/07/2006, you wrote: >Howdy, > >I don't believe any of our state flowers are bulbs. Pictures and >information of most of the state flowers of Australia are at: > >http://www.aussie-info.com/identity/flora/index.php > >Our national flower is the Golden Wattle. This site is good for an >overview of all things aussie: > >http://www.enchantedlearning.com/school/Australia/Ausmap.shtml > >Rgds, >David. >Central Coast, NSW, Australia. >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/381 - Release Date: 03/07/2006 _________________________________________ Ing. Agr. MSc. Prof. Germán Roitman mailto:roitman@mail.agro.uba.ar Cátedra de Jardinería Director de la Carrera Técnica de Jardinería Facultad de Agronomia. Universidad de Buenos Aires _________________________________________ From pacegardens@comcast.net Tue Jul 4 19:59:13 2006 Message-Id: <00a801c69fc5$d87137b0$6501a8c0@PACE> From: "Glen Pace" Subject: Iris dichotoma Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 19:59:11 -0400 Here's a site to look at the Iris dichotoma. It is Dennis Kramb's site and the info is fantastic. http://www.badbear.com/signa/signa.pl?Iris-dichotoma Glen Pace Pace Gardens Clio, MI USA USDA zone 5 where last night's 1/2 inch of rain did wonders for the yard From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Jul 4 21:44:35 2006 Message-Id: <000001c69fd4$9362d9d0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: doggy smells Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 21:44:37 -0400 Dennis et al. - Take a look here; is this your fungus? http://www.jimmckenney.com/natural_history_of_new_selbo.htm Look at the image of Mutinus. Jim McKenney From lwallpe@juno.com Tue Jul 4 21:59:43 2006 Message-Id: <20060704.185903.16672.347170@webmail45.lax.untd.com> From: "lwallpe@juno.com" Subject: Perlite substitute Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 01:58:31 GMT John - You might consider looking at a product called Turface. Here is a URL: http://www.profileproducts.com/index.cfm?lp=gb&bhcp=1 It was recommended to me by Jason Delaney at MOBOT for lightening up my clay soil and I think it's great stuff. Linda Wallpe Cincinnati, Ohio From: "John T Lonsdale" Subject: [pbs] Perlite substitute? Is there anything out there that anyone has practical experience with that I can substitute directly for the perlite? ________________________________________________________________________ Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today! From dkramb@badbear.com Tue Jul 4 22:31:32 2006 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060704222931.01f59500@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: doggy smells Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:31:39 -0400 >Take a look here; is this your fungus? > >http://www.jimmckenney.com/natural_history_of_new_selbo.htm > >Look at the image of Mutinus. ROFLMAO - that's the one!!!! Smells great, don't it?! LOL. I've never seen so many in one small spot. Is that in your garden? I bet that smelled loverly. LOL. Just one of them is pungent enough. Dennis in Cincy, who expects some of those to pop up tomorrow morning after the great rain we had today. From dkramb@badbear.com Tue Jul 4 22:32:31 2006 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060704223158.01f5ddf8@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Iris dichotoma Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:32:37 -0400 At 07:59 PM 7/4/2006, you wrote: >Here's a site to look at the Iris dichotoma. It is Dennis Kramb's >site and the info is fantastic. > >http://www.badbear.com/signa/signa.pl?Iris-dichotoma Do you have any idea how mad I am that I didn't keep the white one? I've never seen or heard of another one ever since then. I love the smell of them, too. Kinda like black liquorice. Dennis in Cincy From mmattus@charter.net Tue Jul 4 23:33:52 2006 Message-Id: From: Matt Mattus Subject: Perlite substitute Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 23:33:47 -0400 This year, I have been testing a product made by Espoma (the people who make Holly Tone Fertilizer, in the U.S.) called Soil Perfector. I've been very pleased with the results so far, the only draw back is it's cost, and perhaps weight, which is just slightly less than real gravel chips but more than Turface. Unlike Turface, the product cannot be crushed but it is porous and not sharp like lava rock. It is very natural looking, with a pleasing blue stone slate color. I have been mixing the product with the inferior Perlite which I have been buying, but even a little added to my traditional mixes has impressed me with the's fast draining effect, and aesthetically, it looks exactly like dark gray granite bluestone gravel, when in fact it is a fired ceramic. The Espoma.com website can tell you more about it, here is a brief description from the site: One application of Espoma Soil Perfector permanently improves the structure of any soil. Soil Perfector is made from a naturally derived, ceramic mineral that is kiln-fired at temperatures in excess of 2000º F. This process creates a durable, lightweight granule containing thousands of tiny storage spaces that hold the perfect balance of water, air and nutrients for an improved soil structure. I get mine by the bag at a local Agway store near Boston, at about ten dollars a 27 lb bag. A little pricey, but a hundred dollars worth allowed me to create enough fast-draining soil that is attractive . I've been using it in Cyclamen, Narcissus, Frits, even Clivia and Alpine seedlings this year. Time will tell, but this is the first time that I have not ordered pumice at $30. A ten lb. bag! Matt Mattus Worcester, MA Zone 5b On 7/4/06 9:58 PM, "lwallpe@juno.com" wrote: > > You might consider looking at a product called Turface. Here is a URL: > http://www.profileproducts.com/index.cfm?lp=gb&bhcp=1 > > From msittner@mcn.org Tue Jul 4 23:53:34 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060704200348.045a6cc0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Perlite substitute Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 20:53:05 -0700 Hi, I find it interesting when we revisit this subject every now and then. What I've noticed is that we are such a diverse group from so many climates and situations that what works one place does not seem to work as well other places. In the beginning of my bulb addiction I tried whatever anyone suggested. Perlite made me cough so I abandoned it. Someone recommended cat litter once. I tried it unsuccessfully ( I did look for one without a lot of additives.) I searched everywhere for Turface, calling around and finally found some that I could purchase I think as Profile clay soil conditioner or perhaps it was aquarium mix. Nothing has ever grown very well for me in it so I've stopped looking for it. Someone recommended decomposed granite so I got a bag of it at a landscape supply store. It was so heavy and clumped too and in my wet winters I'm sure did not generate the air porosity I needed. Red lava rock easily obtained in Northern California was not a success either although I think in a bed where I mixed it in bulbs may have done better in later years so perhaps the rain leached something out that was not good in the beginning. When I first started growing bulbs I read that 1/2 sand and 1/2 peat moss was very good. So I bought sand and didn't realize it needed to be coarse. The definition of "sand" to me was what you had in your sandbox as a child or saw at the ocean. I am sure what I added to my mix resulted in less air in the mix instead of more. I never could find grit when I was looking for it when everyone talked of adding grit to the top of their pots. What I use now is coarse sand (which is like small pebbles or rocks) easily obtained at landscape stores and even available here away from civilization and pumice which I can get in bags at Orchard Supply and a place called Harmony Supply in Sebastopol. Those places are a couple hours away so we buy a lot of bags when we go. And it isn't cheap either. You can also get it at Charley's Greenhouse Supply but it is even more expensive there (although in different grades.) What I'm looking for is something to add air porosity to my mixes during my main growing season when it rains a lot and temperatures are cool. Most of the bulbs in my collection are winter growers. Sometimes I add fir bark or even redwood compost and a handful of coir too even though I've been told that the salt content in it can be very damaging for some plants. I loved Bob Werra's description of his Moraea mix when he asked and answered the rhetorical question about why he used what he did with, "just because." There are a lot of ways to grow bulbs and if you keep trying you find what works for you. I seem to recall John Lonsdale who brought up this whole subject telling us he used composted peanut hulls with his perlite and that obviously isn't something easily obtainable here. I'm don't mean to discourage all the suggestions since it is fascinating to hear what works in different places, but since we probably have all levels of experience in our group would like to point out to the beginners in our group that additives are often used to create air spaces in your mix so the bulbs won't rot and to do that the particles have to be different sizes. That's why perlite when it gets to be mostly fines or fine sand is a problem. Using some of these things can create bog conditions with very little air. Mary Sue From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Jul 5 09:26:29 2006 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Iris dichotoma Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 08:25:49 -0500 Dear all; Iris dichotoma is very hardy. Easily Zone 3 and possibly further north. I recommend growing it from seed which is very easy. This is one of the parents of Candy Lilies (xPardancanda). The other is Belamcanda Chinensis (Now Iris domestica). These Candy Lilies actually show a variety of colors and forms-some closer to I dichotoma - others closer to I domestica. I like the ones that have the I dichotoma forms, but a variety of colors from white to yellow, pink, red, purple etc. These take some careful selection of seedlings. A nice things is they bloom very late in the day- about the time you might return from a day of work, these are just open and fresh. Each flower last just a day, but there may be a hundred on each well branched stallk and they open over a long period. And they are drought tolerant too. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Jul 5 12:04:44 2006 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Iris dichotoma - Candy Lilies Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 09:04:39 -0700 >These Candy Lilies ........ >are drought tolerant too. I grew Candy Lilies twice from Parks seed. Healthy plants all winter, then some time in the spring, after the rains stopped - totally gone. They never flowered. This was a long time ago, before the deer , squirrels and rabbits moved in to the neighbourhood, so I figured it was something to do with climate. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From totototo@telus.net Wed Jul 5 12:07:08 2006 Message-Id: <20060705160706.49SHUG3W68@priv-edmwaa05.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: perlite, pumice, Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 09:05:15 -0700 On 4 Jul 06, at 15:41, boutin wrote: > Even out here in my rural part of California it is difficult to buy > large bags of the coarse graded perlite. They seem to only have or > want to deliver the so called medium, which has lots of fines in it. The "coarse" horticultural perlite I buy has gotten much finer the last couple of years. BTW, a warning for those contemplating other sources: don't use perlite sold for insulating houses; it may contain fluorides, unlike "horticultural" perlite. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From irisman@ameritech.net Wed Jul 5 13:31:56 2006 Message-Id: <001801c6a058$38ae48b0$0100a8c0@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: pbs Digest, perlite and such Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 12:26:59 -0500 Oh, yes, Mary Sue-- It's not just the additive and its availability, but what you're putting into and hoping to gain from doing so. . Pine bark is useless for me because it rots too fast. Redwood bark is OK on top as a mulch to keep water in the soil. My clayey loam is quite sticky, holds lots of water but dries as hard as a rock and cracks open in the summer. Cracks can be an inch wide and a foot deep. I thought of using cypress mulch because it does not rot as fast as any other available wood (takes years). But it holds wa-a-ay too much moisture and I had arisaemas rot in pots with only an inch of it in there. I found decomposed granite useful (but expensive). Builder's sand (the term for the coarser (quarry run) sand needs to be sifted to be useful for me, too. Mixing both coarse bark, and other vegetative matter with sand (even the play sand) is better than the soil I have. In any case, I have leasrnedt o NMECVER buyt "top soil" It's often a sludge from Florida swamps that chokes off any air in your soil. I am still trying to counteract the effects of a bag of it in my iris beds 5 years ago. Adam in Glenview, IL-- prehistoric lakeshore of Lake Michigan . Z5a ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 11:00 AM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 42, Issue 8 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post: <mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive: <http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Perlite substitute (Mary Sue Ittner) > 2. Re: Iris dichotoma (James Waddick) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 20:53:05 -0700 > From: Mary Sue Ittner > Subject: Re: [pbs] Perlite substitute > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20060704200348.045a6cc0@mail.mcn.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Hi, > > I find it interesting when we revisit this subject every now and then. > What > I've noticed is that we are such a diverse group from so many climates and > situations that what works one place does not seem to work as well other > places. In the beginning of my bulb addiction I tried whatever anyone > suggested. Perlite made me cough so I abandoned it. Someone recommended > cat litter once. I tried it unsuccessfully ( I did look for one without a > lot of additives.) I searched everywhere for Turface, calling around and > finally found some that I could purchase I think as Profile clay soil > conditioner or perhaps it was aquarium mix. Nothing has ever grown very > well for me in it so I've stopped looking for it. Someone recommended > decomposed granite so I got a bag of it at a landscape supply store. It > was > so heavy and clumped too and in my wet winters I'm sure did not generate > the air porosity I needed. Red lava rock easily obtained in Northern > California was not a success either although I think in a bed where I > mixed > it in bulbs may have done better in later years so perhaps the rain > leached > something out that was not good in the beginning. When I first started > growing bulbs I read that 1/2 sand and 1/2 peat moss was very good. So I > bought sand and didn't realize it needed to be coarse. The definition of > "sand" to me was what you had in your sandbox as a child or saw at the > ocean. I am sure what I added to my mix resulted in less air in the mix > instead of more. I never could find grit when I was looking for it when > everyone talked of adding grit to the top of their pots. What I use now is > coarse sand (which is like small pebbles or rocks) easily obtained at > landscape stores and even available here away from civilization and > pumice > which I can get in bags at Orchard Supply and a place called Harmony > Supply > in Sebastopol. Those places are a couple hours away so we buy a lot of > bags > when we go. And it isn't cheap either. You can also get it at Charley's > Greenhouse Supply but it is even more expensive there (although in > different grades.) What I'm looking for is something to add air porosity > to > my mixes during my main growing season when it rains a lot and > temperatures > are cool. Most of the bulbs in my collection are winter growers. Sometimes > I add fir bark or even redwood compost and a handful of coir too even > though I've been told that the salt content in it can be very damaging for > some plants. I loved Bob Werra's description of his Moraea mix when he > asked and answered the rhetorical question about why he used what he did > with, "just because." There are a lot of ways to grow bulbs and if you > keep > trying you find what works for you. I seem to recall John Lonsdale who > brought up this whole subject telling us he used composted peanut hulls > with his perlite and that obviously isn't something easily obtainable > here. > I'm don't mean to discourage all the suggestions since it is fascinating > to > hear what works in different places, but since we probably have all levels > of experience in our group would like to point out to the beginners in our > group that additives are often used to create air spaces in your mix so > the > bulbs won't rot and to do that the particles have to be different sizes. > That's why perlite when it gets to be mostly fines or fine sand is a > problem. Using some of these things can create bog conditions with very > little air. > > Mary Sue > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 08:25:49 -0500 > From: James Waddick > Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris dichotoma > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > Dear all; > Iris dichotoma is very hardy. Easily Zone 3 and possibly > further north. I recommend growing it from seed which is very easy. > This is one of the parents of Candy Lilies (xPardancanda). The other > is Belamcanda Chinensis (Now Iris domestica). > > These Candy Lilies actually show a variety of colors and > forms-some closer to I dichotoma - others closer to I domestica. I > like the ones that have the I dichotoma forms, but a variety of > colors from white to yellow, pink, red, purple etc. These take some > careful selection of seedlings. > > A nice things is they bloom very late in the day- about the > time you might return from a day of work, these are just open and > fresh. Each flower last just a day, but there may be a hundred on > each well branched stallk and they open over a long period. And they > are drought tolerant too. > > Best Jim W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 42, Issue 8 > ********************************** > From irisman@ameritech.net Wed Jul 5 13:46:52 2006 Message-Id: <000401c6a05a$4e6e7380$0100a8c0@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: How to find things like Turface. Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 12:41:54 -0500 Just type the name of the product into your browser. Usually a group of suppliers and the manufacturer turn up. If suppliers are not there, call the manufacturer, because phone numbers or other modes of contact are usually there. And don't use the yellow pages, or white pages box (say, on www.Dogpile.com), just type it in. I've become expert trying to find Size 15 boots at a reasonable price. So, a palce in California ships to Illinois and the whole thing is cheaper than I can get them here. Cheers. From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Wed Jul 5 13:55:44 2006 Message-Id: <20060705175544.77903.qmail@web34312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: Bekutenko Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 10:55:44 -0700 (PDT) > link to Dr. Berkutenko's seed list for 2006. He has > an interesting selection. Have you or others > successfully received seed from him, and does the > seed have good viability? Hello, I have order twice in the past. The first year I had about 20% of what I bought germinate. Mostly some Thalictrum and a Sanguisorba. None of the Cimicifuga, Schisandra, or Actinidia ever showed after four years. I dumped the pots this spring. The second year I ordered I bought about another 30 packets of seed. Only 3 seeds of Adonis germinated. I had ordered about 30 packets of seed. All the Polygonatum, Smilacina, Arisaema, and Schisandra came as uncleaned fruits. Maybe things have gotten better, but I have not bothered the past 3 years. All the best, Aaron Floden KS --- boutin wrote: > Thanks Diane for the link to Dr. Berkutenko's seed > list for 2006. He has an > interesting selection. Have you or others > successfully received seed from > him, and does the seed have good viability? > > Shilka Orchid Iris turns out are forms of Iris > dichotoma. > > Fred > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Jul 5 14:40:17 2006 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Bekutenko - Berkutenko Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 11:40:13 -0700 I just ordered once from Dr Berkutenko, and one third of her seeds germinated. I think some of the seeds may have been old. I ordered in the fall, thinking I would be receiving current seeds, so my order included seeds that require to be sown fresh. Then her new list came out, I think in January, so I thought that perhaps I had received seed from the previous year. She is in an area where seed collectors go only rarely (I can think of one Czech expedition to Kamchatka), and Russian botanic gardens and universities have had to scramble for operating funds so I don't mind that all the seeds don't germinate - the money goes to a worthwhile cause. However, I would not order any more ephemerals except for ones that are labelled as newly collected. Seeds that germinated: Atragene (Clematis), Dracocephalum, Erigeron, Gentiana (only 1 of 5 ordered, though) and Rhododendron. Seeds that did not germinate: Anemone, Angelica, Cimicifuga, Dryas, Erythronium I did not try any of her iris seeds, but they might not germinate easily either, if my lack of success with a lot of iris seeds from SIGNA (Species Iris Group of North America) is indicative . Diane Whitehead who still has some bags of uncleaned seeds sitting on her kitchen counter since last October, so I know how it can be. From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Jul 5 15:47:28 2006 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: chocolate scented gladiolus Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 12:47:21 -0700 Many years ago I planted some corms of commercial gladiolus corms advertised as being winter hardy. I can't recall whether they ever bloomed. This spring, I removed a cluster of big sword ferns (Polystichum munitum), a native that comes up everywhere, even in my "sunny" spots. When I was beating the soil off their roots, out fell some gladiolus corms, so I replanted them. They are now blooming - white, with red diamond "frames" on the lower three petals. They are chocolate scented. I have read about scented gladiolus species, but not this particular scent. What kind of gladiolus is it? -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From SheriAnnRicherson@exoticgardening.com Wed Jul 5 16:26:30 2006 Message-Id: <012201c6a071$4ce80320$6401a8c0@sheri> From: "Sheri Ann Richerson" Subject: chocolate scented bulbs Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 16:26:30 -0400 The post on the gladiolus with the chocolate scent makes me want to enquire if there are other bulbs that have chocolate scented foliage or flowers. Does anyone know of any or is anyone growing some? Thanks, Sheri From roberth6@mac.com Wed Jul 5 16:49:18 2006 Message-Id: From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Berkutenko seeds Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 06:49:39 +1000 Hi all, I participated in a small group order for seeds which arrived in April 2003. 4 of 8 species germinated one of which was a gift - this was Linum komaravii which germinated immediately . Daphne jezoensis , Daphne kamschatica and Polygonatum officialis germinated between 18 and 24 months after sowing. Cardicrinum glehnii , Dicentra peregrina , Erythronium sibiricum and Lilium pumilum didnt germinate. Overall I was quite satisfied to end up with the rare Daphne plants. Cheers, Rob in Tasmania From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Wed Jul 5 17:00:34 2006 Message-Id: <1c2f0a4f725fe68b2f8e5d4398b9b12e@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: chocolate scented bulbs Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 14:00:29 -0700 Well, there is the famous Cosmos atrosanguineus which has tubers and really does smell like a rich dark chocolate. But I have never ever been able to get them to come back from winter dormancy whether I keep them dry or wet or barely moist over the winter. I have not tried bringing them in from outside. Maybe they require warm winters as well as warm summers? Also, it is supposedly the case that all of them in existence in the entire world are all the same clone and they are extinct in the wild. So no seeds are ever formed. I also like the Sherry Baby Oncidium orchid's chocolate scent--very close to the real thing. But I don't think Oncidiums count as bulbs. (In fact, how do they decide which orchids do count as bulbs, like Pleiones and Bletillas, and which don't?) --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a On Jul 5, 2006, at 1:26 PM, Sheri Ann Richerson wrote: > The post on the gladiolus with the chocolate scent makes me want to > enquire > if there are other bulbs that have chocolate scented foliage or > flowers. > > Does anyone know of any or is anyone growing some? > > Thanks, > Sheri > From hornig@usadatanet.net Wed Jul 5 17:21:52 2006 Message-Id: <380-22006735211835500@M2W012.mail2web.com> From: "hornig@usadatanet.net" Subject: Berkutenko seeds Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 17:18:35 -0400 I used to order from Berkutenko, but found her frustrating to deal with. It's true that she has access to species no-one else does, and it's worth trying a few times to get those - but in my case I was also trying to get seeds for production, and I found that out of, say, every 100 Atragene (clematis) seeds I ordered, roughly 15 of them would have even the appearance of possibly having embryos, and the rest would be empty seedcoats (which in the case of a clematis means they are visibly smaller and flatter than seeds with embryos, and not hard to identify). Her reaction to this was beyond indifferent, which is to say rude, and I tired of dealing with the attitude (in other cases, e.g. thalictrum, I rubbed the "seeds" between my thumb and finger and found, similarly, that roughly 10% were even candidates for sowing - as to the rest, there was nothing there to begin with). In general, where seeds could be isolated from everything else, they germinated pretty well - but she was, as I said, completely uninterested in hearing that she was charging for things that weren't even seeds. The bright side is that you pay her after you get the seeds, so in my case I prorated my payment for the number of seeds I actually received - but after I did that, I didn't feel comfortable placing more orders, so I haven't dealt with her since (roughly 5 or 6 years). Personally, I think she tries to play the sympathy vote: the poor third-worlder versus the rich western capitalist. By training, she's a botanist. She shouldn't have any trouble telling a seed from an empty seedcoat, or at least sampling her wares and adjusting the quantity sent to reflect estimated content. So - caveat emptor. She certainly does list, and send, some interesting species. Ellen Hornig Seneca Hill Perennials 3712 County Route 57 Oswego NY 13126 USA USDA zone 5 Original Message: ----------------- From: Robert Hamilton roberth6@mac.com Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 06:49:39 +1000 To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Berkutenko seeds Hi all, I participated in a small group order for seeds which arrived in April 2003. 4 of 8 species germinated one of which was a gift - this was Linum komaravii which germinated immediately . Daphne jezoensis , Daphne kamschatica and Polygonatum officialis germinated between 18 and 24 months after sowing. Cardicrinum glehnii , Dicentra peregrina , Erythronium sibiricum and Lilium pumilum didnt germinate. Overall I was quite satisfied to end up with the rare Daphne plants. Cheers, Rob in Tasmania _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Wed Jul 5 17:21:33 2006 Message-Id: <72ab5a3744c998baa974f4f37949f4ca@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Leptochiton Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 14:21:31 -0700 Is it the case that the scientific names for plants and the ones for animals need not pay attention to each other? I thought the rule, at least for only plants or only animals, is that once a name is use for a genus or species, then it can't be used for another, different, genus or species. But does this rule apply between the two kingdoms? I was trying to remember the species name for Leptochiton. So I Googled it. Lo and behold, up came links to both Leptochiton quitoensis as well as to a bunch of mollusc species (Leptochiton alveolus, arcticus, asellus, belknapi, cancellatus, ...). This might be okay if there were only the two kingdoms, but these days there are several other kingdoms, depending on whose DNA analyses you believe. And now there are three major branches of the tree of life (bacteria, archaea, eukaryota) and both animals and plants are on the same major branch! Does this mean that someone could name a new genus of bacteria, which are neither animal nor plant, Leptochiton as well? And in fact, the fungi are now considered to be a completely separate kingdom from both plants and animals and according to DNA sequencing are actually much more closely related to animals than to plants, which I think they used to be included in the kingdom of. So would it be okay to name a new genus of muchrooms Leptochiton? I think there are two separate organizations that control the naming of plants and of animals. But is there any organization that controls the naming of all the other living organisms? How does this work these days? (And how did Leptochiton get to be the name of a genus of plants as well as of a genus of animals?) --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a [I just checked wikipedia and it has this to say: <> So there is an ICBN, ICZN, and an ICNB. I never even knew there was an ICNB. And I see that that the ICBN also controls fungi and cyanobacteria. But who decides which of the three get to control names of things on the tree of life that don't easily fall into animals, plants, fungi, cyanobacteria, and bacteria? And once again I ask: Are the three so independent that you can use duplicate names for genera as long as the organism belongs to a different code organization?] From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Wed Jul 5 17:43:17 2006 Message-Id: <20060705214316.11186.qmail@web34302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: Plant of the summer, so far./Kniphofia Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 14:43:16 -0700 (PDT) > What a great > perennial! I know it is not a true geophyte but > Kniphofias are on the list. > Just when you start to feel a little jaded, what fun > to find a new treasure! > > Terence Hernstrom Hello, The Kniphofia are great. I have been surprised by what has proved hardy here in Z5 Kansas. The following have wintered, and all but baurii and multiflora have flowered; sarmentosa (winter grower, but pots of it bloom in cold frames in January) ichopensis buchannaii baurii northiae (died in drought, same bed as hirsuta) caulescens uvaria "border ballet" (blooms all summer) multiflora parviflora (don't really notice the green flowers) triangularis (terracotta from from Ellen Hornig,lovely in front of a yellow leaved dwarf Ulmus!) typhoides typhoides x caulescens (bloom at same time and crossed a fews years ago, no blooms yet, distichous foilage) hirsuta (died in a drought several years back.) Buchananii blooms near the end of May and its delightfully fragrant, sometimes chocolatey. All mine have bloomed within 13 months from sowing. Baurii is taking it's sweet time. Triangularis is great and blooms in late summer when most thins are done. Caulescens cannot be beat for foilage, but the floral display is not so great on one plant. The masses of wild plants are exceptional though. Foliosa, bruceae, alba, and fibrosa were just planted out this year, so we'll see how they fare. I expect well. All the best, Aaron __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From hornig@usadatanet.net Wed Jul 5 17:52:48 2006 Message-Id: <380-22006735215225765@M2W024.mail2web.com> From: "hornig@usadatanet.net" Subject: Plant of the summer, so far./Kniphofia Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 17:52:25 -0400 The plant Aaron praises as K. triangularis (from me) is not. After I saw K. triangularis in the wild in South Africa, I realized that what I had under that name was something else. Best guess, until it blooms again, is a nice selection of K. angustifolia. It came originally from a South African seed source, but mixups do occur! At any rate, it's a gorgeous plant; the photos on the website are of the plants I have; they just aren't K. triangularis. Sigh... Ellen Seneca Hill Perennials www.senecahill.com Original Message: ----------------- From: aaron floden aaron_floden@yahoo.com Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 14:43:16 -0700 (PDT) To: gardenersview@earthlink.net, pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] Plant of the summer, so far./Kniphofia > What a great > perennial! I know it is not a true geophyte but > Kniphofias are on the list. > Just when you start to feel a little jaded, what fun > to find a new treasure! > > Terence Hernstrom Hello, The Kniphofia are great. I have been surprised by what has proved hardy here in Z5 Kansas. The following have wintered, and all but baurii and multiflora have flowered; sarmentosa (winter grower, but pots of it bloom in cold frames in January) ichopensis buchannaii baurii northiae (died in drought, same bed as hirsuta) caulescens uvaria "border ballet" (blooms all summer) multiflora parviflora (don't really notice the green flowers) triangularis (terracotta from from Ellen Hornig,lovely in front of a yellow leaved dwarf Ulmus!) typhoides typhoides x caulescens (bloom at same time and crossed a fews years ago, no blooms yet, distichous foilage) hirsuta (died in a drought several years back.) Buchananii blooms near the end of May and its delightfully fragrant, sometimes chocolatey. All mine have bloomed within 13 months from sowing. Baurii is taking it's sweet time. Triangularis is great and blooms in late summer when most thins are done. Caulescens cannot be beat for foilage, but the floral display is not so great on one plant. The masses of wild plants are exceptional though. Foliosa, bruceae, alba, and fibrosa were just planted out this year, so we'll see how they fare. I expect well. All the best, Aaron __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From honeybunny442@yahoo.com Wed Jul 5 18:12:24 2006 Message-Id: <20060705221224.99226.qmail@web56108.mail.re3.yahoo.com> From: Susan B Subject: chocolate scented bulbs Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 15:12:24 -0700 (PDT) Check out http://www.chocolateflowerfarm.com/ --- Sheri Ann Richerson wrote: > The post on the gladiolus with the chocolate scent > makes me want to enquire > if there are other bulbs that have chocolate scented > foliage or flowers. > > Does anyone know of any or is anyone growing some? > > Thanks, > Sheri > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From samclan@redshift.com Wed Jul 5 19:44:12 2006 Message-Id: <005d01c6a08c$ed4ba0e0$32012a42@authoriu> From: "samclan" Subject: chocolate scented bulbs Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 16:44:14 -0700 I have a group of them growing in the ground in Zone 9 (says USGA), but closer to 10 now. I thought they were perennial herbs, so was surprised to find they were geophytes. They are in 1/2 day sun (unless the fog comes in), spread very moderately, get rain in winter and once a week water in summer. And they definitely smell like chocolate. I would have guessed Pasadena would be perfect for them, but maybe it is too hot in the summer. Shirley Meneice Pebble Beach, 100 yards from the ocean, in the Monterey Pine forest. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Poulsen" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] chocolate scented bulbs > Well, there is the famous Cosmos atrosanguineus which has tubers and > really does smell like a rich dark chocolate. But I have never ever > been able to get them to come back from winter dormancy whether I keep > them dry or wet or barely moist over the winter. I have not tried > bringing them in from outside. Maybe they require warm winters as well > as warm summers? > > Also, it is supposedly the case that all of them in existence in the > entire world are all the same clone and they are extinct in the wild. > So no seeds are ever formed. > > I also like the Sherry Baby Oncidium orchid's chocolate scent--very > close to the real thing. But I don't think Oncidiums count as bulbs. > (In fact, how do they decide which orchids do count as bulbs, like > Pleiones and Bletillas, and which don't?) > > --Lee Poulsen > Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a > > On Jul 5, 2006, at 1:26 PM, Sheri Ann Richerson wrote: > >> The post on the gladiolus with the chocolate scent makes me want to >> enquire >> if there are other bulbs that have chocolate scented foliage or >> flowers. >> >> Does anyone know of any or is anyone growing some? >> >> Thanks, >> Sheri >> > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > -- ---------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1856 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len From lynelda@netspeed.com.au Wed Jul 5 19:55:55 2006 Message-Id: From: "Lyn Edwards" Subject: chocolate scented bulbs Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:55:51 +1000 I have a clump of Cosmos atrosanguineus in my I think USDA 8 zone in inland Australia and despite drought,frosts and whatever else happens weather wise this continues to grow and expand producing masses of chocolate scented flowers.Its a real joy and I can't imagine my garden without it.It does get a bit mildewy towards winter but that is its only fault and that isn't a problem as its time to cut it back anyway, Lyn Edwards Canberra From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Wed Jul 5 20:30:22 2006 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: chocolate scented bulbs Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 17:30:18 -0700 On Jul 5, 2006, at 4:44 PM, samclan wrote: > I have a group of them growing in the ground in Zone 9 (says USGA), but > closer to 10 now. > Shirley Meneice > Pebble Beach, 100 yards from the ocean, in the Monterey Pine forest. On Jul 5, 2006, at 4:55 PM, Lyn Edwards wrote: > I have a clump of Cosmos atrosanguineus in my I think USDA 8 zone in > inland > Australia and despite drought,frosts and whatever else happens weather > wise > this continues to grow and expand... > Lyn Edwards > Canberra > Both of you are in mild climates but that are cooler than mine all year round. And you both have them in the ground. Mine have been in pots. Maybe the combination of my warmer climate and being in pots means the roots or tubers get too hot. Or maybe they just don't like being in pots. I'm going to try some in the ground. Thanks, --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a From jensw1@yahoo.com Wed Jul 5 22:24:54 2006 Message-Id: <20060706022453.37899.qmail@web37714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: jens walden Subject: perlite substitutes Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 19:24:53 -0700 (PDT) Dry stall; is a pumice based substrate that farm feed stores carry. It comes in a 40 pound bag and costs around $10 sans tax in GA...(do not know about "other" states though). The company is http://www.drystall.com/index.html they do have a "dealer" link for inquiries regarding one's particular state... Hopefully this can be of help... J.W. in arid North GA, where the Crinums are blooming and everything else is suffering --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. From arnold@nj.rr.com Wed Jul 5 22:27:51 2006 Message-Id: From: arnold@nj.rr.com Subject: perlite substitutes Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 19:27:50 -0700 I have taken to potting many of my South African bulbs in a 50/50 mix of coir and gravel. I'll let you know how things go in a year or two. Arnold On holiday in Oregon. From jensw1@yahoo.com Wed Jul 5 22:48:15 2006 Message-Id: <20060706024814.61405.qmail@web37710.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: jens walden Subject: re; Perlite substitute Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 19:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Has anyone tried this product by Espoma? It appears to be a "perlite" substitute... http://www.espoma.com/pdf/SoilPerfector.pdf It is similar in structure to fullers earth, commonly referred to as turface in the sports turf management arena (theirs is a smaller particle, whereas the Espoma type is quite large) Also, a product called Dri-zit http://www.waverlyminerals.com/Dri-Zit.htm sold through the Automotive chain Advance Auto parts is made from a coarse granule fullers earth. there may need to be some experimenting done with these types of substrate for "bulbs" etc...I have been using these substrates for several ears now in my bulb potting mix with good results. Cheers J.W. in Georgia --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. From Blee811@aol.com Wed Jul 5 22:49:11 2006 Message-Id: <3b2.4e0502e.31ddd423@aol.com> From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: Scientific Names Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:49:07 EDT In a message dated 7/5/2006 5:21:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wpoulsen@pacbell.net writes: Is it the case that the scientific names for plants and the ones for animals need not pay attention to each other? Yes, that is indeed the case. I remember a humorous talk a year or so ago in which the speaker did a great job explaining the nomenclature. Then he illustrated some of the names with drawings and photos and it was amazing to see a monkey and a plant with the same genus name. I think there were primate and avian overlaps too. Bill Lee From boutin@goldrush.com Wed Jul 5 22:54:31 2006 Message-Id: <004001c6a0a7$8c34f020$1a3d7143@homecomputer> From: "boutin" Subject: chocolate scented bulbs/Cosmos Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 19:54:43 -0700 Shirley and Lee, Re. Cosmos atrosanguineus, Appropriately, the first place where I collected seed of this Cosmos was in meadows of herbs under tall pines on a hillside in Jalisco, Mexico. I believe, in my field notes I remarked how the site reminded me of the pine woods of Pebble Beach and the Monterey Peninsula. They have a good home with you Shirley. Another geophytic Cosmos which I once collected and grew at the Huntington, but which we lost, was C. seemannii. This was a small grower with almost dahlia-like tubers. As I recall it was from well drained slopes. Leaves were very divided and fern-like. I don't recall if it was fragrant. Fred Boutin Tuolumne, CA From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Thu Jul 6 00:30:42 2006 Message-Id: <000f01c6a0b4$edbb7280$d8430e52@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Leptochiton & genera names Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 05:30:35 +0100 There seems to be no restriction on the use of the same generic name for different types of organism, so long as they are in the different codes. Several birds have plant generic names,one springing to mind at 5.30 am is Glaucidium - a choice woodland plant genus, or an Old World owlet. But Phoebe is only a common name for certain North American birds, but a proper genus of Asian Lauraceae. Phoenix is only a palm... John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk From BBCNURSERY@aol.com Thu Jul 6 02:31:26 2006 Message-Id: <55b.1abbd0b.31de083a@aol.com> From: BBCNURSERY@aol.com Subject: re; Perlite substitute Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 02:31:22 EDT If your local rock dealer has a fairly inert rock source and if you don't mind the added potting soil weight I find that 1/4 minus gravel gives excellent results. It is cheap and if the fines bother you just run the gravel through a hardware cloth sieve. Here in the rainy Portland Area I find that a great mix for bulbs in pots is equal parts soil, the above gravel and coarse peat. Greig Warner Vancouver, WA From hilary@ingascony.com Thu Jul 6 03:45:48 2006 Message-Id: <001b01c6a0d9$6fa3f000$0400a8c0@shimmer> From: "Hilary Nightingale" Subject: chocolate scented bulbs Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:51:56 +0100 Thanks for the link Susan B, that looks fun I wonder whether the scented gladiolus might be what used to be known as Acidanthera, as they have sweetly scented flowers. The colour and markings sound similar and are very like a gladiolus to look at. Sorry can't remember what they are now called........... Hilary, in (thankfully slightly cooler than it was) SW France ........and we've had some rain :o)) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] chocolate scented bulbs > Check out http://www.chocolateflowerfarm.com/ > > --- Sheri Ann Richerson > wrote: > > > The post on the gladiolus with the chocolate scent > > makes me want to enquire > > if there are other bulbs that have chocolate scented > > foliage or flowers. From barryandjac@bigpond.com Thu Jul 6 05:46:55 2006 Message-Id: <001d01c6a0e1$1819af20$0100000a@user01> From: "Jacinda and Barry" Subject: Iris dichotoma Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 17:46:45 +0800 Hi Becky, Loved the daylily photos. I SO need a digital camera! Would love to post some pics of some of my plants. Would help come ID time also! (Lots of lost labels) LOL Regards Jacinda Wilson, West. Australia From msittner@mcn.org Thu Jul 6 11:10:43 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060706080325.037339a8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Gladiolus callianthus Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 08:10:24 -0700 Hi Hilary, We try to link the old names on our wiki so people will be able to find what they are looking for searching either way. So the Gladiolus you mention can be found on the Acidanthera page. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Acidanthera or you can use the text search on the wiki. If you type in Acidanthera you get all the wiki pages it is found on: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/FullTextSearch?s=Acidanthera Mary Sue From totototo@telus.net Thu Jul 6 11:49:14 2006 Message-Id: <20060706154911.21QW9MGDNP@priv-edtnaa05.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: chocolate scented bulbs Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 08:47:19 -0700 On Jul 5, 2006, at 1:26 PM, Sheri Ann Richerson wrote: > The post on the gladiolus with the chocolate scent makes me want > to enquire if there are other bulbs that have chocolate scented > foliage or flowers. On 5 Jul 06, at 14:00, Lee Poulsen replied: > Well, there is the famous Cosmos atrosanguineus which has tubers and > really does smell like a rich dark chocolate. But I have never ever > been able to get them to come back from winter dormancy whether I keep > them dry or wet or barely moist over the winter. I have not tried > bringing them in from outside. Maybe they require warm winters as well > as warm summers? I've successfully overwintered C.a. by simply shoving the pot into a cold but frost-free storage room and letting it go dry. I wonder if your Pasadena winters are too mild. Try drying the pot off and putting it in the vegetable section of your kitchen refrigerator. Complaints from the distaff side of the household "what the devil is that dirty pot doing in the fridge?" are best ignored. > Also, it is supposedly the case that all of them in existence in the > entire world are all the same clone and they are extinct in the wild. > So no seeds are ever formed. I've seen said this elsewhere and wonder what the truth is. The same situation is supposed to also appertain to /Lotus berthelottii/ from the Canary Islands - extinct in wild, only one clone in cultivation, self-sterile. Can anybody offer a reference that has credibility above "urban myth"? Chocolate scented plants: Berlandiera lyrata also. Not a bulb; rather, a small annual something like the yellow annual cosmos. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Jul 6 12:49:43 2006 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: chocolate scented bulbs Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:49:38 -0700 >I wonder whether the scented gladiolus might be what used to be known as >Acidanthera, as they have sweetly scented flowers. No, it's not that one - I grow that one also. This mystery one isn't sweetly-scented. I've been looking at lots of pictures of gladiolus, and it is Gladiolus nanus, most likely an unnamed one. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From hilary@ingascony.com Thu Jul 6 12:14:34 2006 Message-Id: <00a101c6a120$79c64460$0400a8c0@shimmer> From: "Hilary Nightingale" Subject: Gladiolus callianthus Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 18:20:27 +0100 Thanks Mary Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Sue Ittner" To: Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 4:10 PM Subject: [pbs] Gladiolus callianthus > Hi Hilary, > > We try to link the old names on our wiki so people will be able to find > what they are looking for searching either way. So the Gladiolus you > mention can be found on the Acidanthera page. > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Acidanthera > > or you can use the text search on the wiki. If you type in Acidanthera you > get all the wiki pages it is found on: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/FullTextSearch?s=Acidant hera > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From SheriAnnRicherson@exoticgardening.com Thu Jul 6 13:49:13 2006 Message-Id: <024b01c6a124$6f59d290$6401a8c0@sheri> From: "Sheri Ann Richerson" Subject: chocolate scented bulbs Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:48:44 -0400 Thanks for all the replies. I have been trying to grow Cosmos atrosanguineus with no luck. I either get them dormant and they don't grow or they simply die off. I am in Indiana - zone 5/6. Sheri From hilary@ingascony.com Thu Jul 6 13:12:16 2006 Message-Id: <00c701c6a128$894b1200$0400a8c0@shimmer> From: "Hilary Nightingale" Subject: chocolate scented bulbs Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 19:18:09 +0100 Ah, I'm glad you've found more or less what it is Diane Hilary SW France ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Whitehead" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] chocolate scented bulbs > >I wonder whether the scented gladiolus might be what used to be known as > >Acidanthera, as they have sweetly scented flowers. > > > No, it's not that one - I grow that one also. > > This mystery one isn't sweetly-scented. I've been looking at lots of > pictures of gladiolus, and it is Gladiolus nanus, most likely an > unnamed one. > > -- > Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > maritime zone 8 > cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) > sandy soil > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Thu Jul 6 14:23:53 2006 Message-Id: <000601c6a129$50341740$0202a8c0@DAVE1> From: "David Fenwick Snr." Subject: Chocolate Kniphofia Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 19:23:41 +0100 Sheri, >>>>>>I have been trying to grow Cosmos atrosanguineus with no luck. I >>>>>>either get them dormant and they don't grow or they simply die off. I am in Indiana - zone 5/6. You could try Kniphofia brachystachya, a high altitude poker from Lesotho, it has a lovely chocolate / vanilla smell and could prove hardy. However here I've found it a good container plant, and easier to keep alive as such. It's only a small alpine, dark brown flowered poker so there's no chance of it taking over. A good plant to look out for, and the smell is great. Best Wishes, Dave David Fenwick Snr. The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens, Estover, Plymouth, Devon. England. PL6 8TW Tel: 44 (0)1752 301402 NCCPG National Plant Reference Collections of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe, Tulbaghia, Eucomis with Galtonia, Freesia (Anomatheca Group) and Amaryllis Websites The African Garden www.theafricangarden.com Wildflowers of the Devon and Cornwall Peninsula www.aphotoflora.com Wildlife of the Devon and Cornwall Peninsula www.aphotofauna.com B&Q The Unreal Deal www.wecantdoit.com Crocosmia Heritage www.crocosmiaheritage.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 04/07/2006 From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Thu Jul 6 14:27:03 2006 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: chocolate scented bulbs Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:27:01 -0700 On Jul 6, 2006, at 8:47 AM, totototo@telus.net wrote: >> Also, it is supposedly the case that all of them in existence in the >> entire world are all the same clone and they are extinct in the wild. >> So no seeds are ever formed. > > I've seen said this elsewhere and wonder what the truth is. The same > situation is supposed to also appertain to /Lotus berthelottii/ from > the Canary Islands - extinct in wild, only one clone in cultivation, > self-sterile. > > Can anybody offer a reference that has credibility above "urban myth"? > > I think I read it first in an article on the species in Curtis's Botanical Magazine, Volume 20, Number 1, February 2003, pp. 40-48(9). But I don't have that article available right now. Here's what wikipedia says, and gives as a reference New RHS Dictionary of Gardening: ==================== <> ==================== However, Fred Boutin says he collected seed of this Cosmos in meadows of herbs under tall pines on a hillside in Jalisco, Mexico. Fred, do you still grow any of this from those seeds you collected? --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Jul 6 15:48:12 2006 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: chocolate scented - Gladiolus Nanus Hybrids Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:48:05 -0700 I have discovered something about Gladiolus nanus. One of my bulb books lists it as a species, but several more recent ones say this instead: Gladiolus X colvillei (G. tristis X cardinalis) syn G. nanus hort. Nanus Hybrids Various colours from white to crimson and mauve. Hardy in only the mildest gardens of southern and western England. So the scent must have come from tristis, but I have never smelled it. Also, I have only the one Nanus, so I don't know whether others of them are scented. I shall buy some more this fall when bulbs arrive in the garden centres. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From rmsachs@ucdavis.edu Thu Jul 6 17:00:41 2006 Message-Id: From: "Roy M. Sachs" Subject: chocolate scented - Gladiolus Nanus Hybrids Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:00:31 -0700 >I have discovered something about Gladiolus nanus. One of my bulb >books lists it as a species, but several more recent ones say this >instead: > >Gladiolus X colvillei (G. tristis X cardinalis) syn G. nanus hort. >Nanus Hybrids Various colours from white to crimson and mauve. >Hardy in only the mildest gardens of southern and western England. > >So the scent must have come from tristis, but I have never smelled >it. Also, I have only the one Nanus, so I don't know whether others >of them are scented. I shall buy some more this fall when bulbs >arrive in the garden centres. If we're talking about Gladiolus nanus hybrids, similar to the hundreds that I bought way back in 1990 or so, in several colors, all relatively reduced in stature and floret size, then I would have to caution members about their propensity to acquire a virus disease (probably one of the mosaics in the Davis area, probably from aphids or thrips) In 3 years I lost all but a very and they looked as if they had maybe one more year of life. Not even in the first year, when they were quite beautiful, were any of them scented Roy From coffeecamp@optusnet.com.au Thu Jul 6 17:06:06 2006 Message-Id: <007d01c6a13f$fba0f880$8c76a4cb@geoff2abba5c65> From: "Geoffrey Barnier" Subject: chocolate scented bulbs Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 07:05:00 +1000 Bulbs with flowers or foliage smelling of chocolate would include Australia's Chocolate Lily, Arthropodium strictum, previously Dichopogon strictus found in all Austratian states & territories except Tasmania & the Northern Territory. Its tubers were eaten raw or roasted by the Australian Aborigines although the chocolate smell of the flowers is not reflected in their flavour reportedly. The Aboriginals ate many tuberous perennials like Bulbine bulbosa (Native Leek or Bulbine lily) and Anthropodium milleflorum (Vanilla Lily - yes, we have a bulb which has flowers smelling of vanilla too!), but their taste is too bland or bitter for European palettes and have not even found their way into the current Bush Food or Bush Tucker craze. Also, because these geophytes are native to grasslands and banks of streams & rivers, their numbers in the wild, especially Microseris lanceolata (Murnong or Yam Daisy), have been decimated by livestock. Sadly, the plants themselves are not found even in Native Nurseries here. Seed is obtainable only from specialist merchants and like seed of many Australian natives, is difficult to germinate. I'm thrilled that seed which I sowed last October (Spring) germinated recently (early winter when I had almost given up hope!) and I now have three very healthy & thriving seedlings of our Chocolate Lily. Geoff in sub-tropical NSW, Australia From msittner@mcn.org Thu Jul 6 19:38:33 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060706143247.03680d10@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Scented Bulbs Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 16:38:14 -0700 I grow both of those Arthropodiums and have pictures on the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Arthropodium I've not really notice fragrance in my plants. Perhaps it needs to be hotter when they are blooming. A. milleflorum has really small flowers, but they are cute. It looks like I'll have seed of this one Geoff if you are interested. Dirk Wallace once shared with me some Erythronium seed collected in California by Wayne Roderick who shared it with Dirk in Australia. And Gary Reid traded sent me seed of A. milleflorum when I sent him seed of California species. It's funny how those things work. I decided to get rid of that Cosmos that smelled like Chocolate and later saw it was back. So it can survive wet winters. I wanted to get rid of it because I think I didn't think it was that impressive a plant, but then with my very low nutrient soil and rampant competition from redwood roots, I've found that most perennials don't do as well as they do in other gardens so have replaced them with shrubs that are tougher. I just checked and it looks like it is still alive. At least there is a leaf, but no sign of flowers. It is interesting that Diane's Gladiolus is fragrant. G. tristis has a wonderful fragrance, but only at night. If you smell it during the day, there is no smell at all. I have a hybrid short Glad that is probably one of those hybrids they call Gladiolus nanus. For years it did really well in my garden. Then I dug them up to share and there was a real decline. I had to dig out the few survivours when we need to find our septic tank and have it pumped and I saved a few to grow in a pot and added a few others to the ground. Last year I divided the ones in the pot and put some more in the ground. This year with all of our late rainfall they have appeared all over my garden. Either they reseeded or I truly planted them in places I don't remember. I was thinking that perhaps they had been virused and disturbing them was enough of an environmental change to bring on the virus and that was why there almost disappeared. Now I'm not sure what to think. It's a stunning color though so have added it to the wiki. Mine has no scent I can tell. Maybe Diane can add the one she is growing that is scented. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/GladiolusHybrids Dave Fenwick has some of the G. nanus pictured on his page: http://www.theafricangarden.com/page55.html It looks like he has one like I have, but is just calling it a nanus hybrid. Diane may see what she has pictured on his page. No one ever said if they thought the white one I added under Gladiolus x colvillei to our wiki was a named cultivar. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From barryandjac@bigpond.com Fri Jul 7 02:32:01 2006 Message-Id: <003701c6a18f$077fa940$0100000a@user01> From: "Jacinda and Barry" Subject: chocolate scented bulbs Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 14:31:50 +0800 Hi Lee, Good question re: orchids and what counts as bulbs and what doesn't. Have always wondered this myself! Jacinda Wilson, West. Australia sunny and fine today about 26D Celcius and mid Winter! From totototo@telus.net Fri Jul 7 13:07:35 2006 Message-Id: <20060707170733.35D5W4FJTC@priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Cosmos atrosanguinea, was Re: chocolate scented bulbs Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:05:41 -0700 On 6 Jul 06, at 11:27, Lee Poulsen quoted the Wikipedia on Cosmos atrosanguinea: > Cosmos atrosanguineus (Chocolate Cosmos) is a species of Cosmos, > native to Mexico, where it is extinct in the wild. The species was > introduced into cultivation in 1902, where it survives as a single > clone reproduced by vegetative propagation. I look askance at that "extinct in the wild" part and wonder who is bold enough to make such a broad statement, unless they've personally scouted out Mexico in its entirety. > However, Fred Boutin says he collected seed of this Cosmos in > meadows of herbs under tall pines on a hillside in Jalisco, Mexico. Which is, I'd think, pretty good counter-evidence. I hope Fred Boutin is taking steps to get viable seed and spread it around; these single-clone plants are prone to succumbing to viral infections, though there are counterexamples such as Dahlia 'Bishop of Llandaff'. Another example of supposedly extinct but not quite is Tecophilaea. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@telus.net Fri Jul 7 13:07:35 2006 Message-Id: <20060707170734.DB6BW55QP2@priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: What's a Bulb?, was Re: chocolate scented bulbs Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:05:41 -0700 On 7 Jul 06, at 14:31, Jacinda and Barry wrote: > Good question re: orchids and what counts as bulbs and what doesn't. > Have always wondered this myself! The terms "bulb", "tuber", "rhizome", and "corm" have rather precise definitions in botanical use, which you can unearth in any suitable reference. Some plants are, as you would expect, problematic: various cyclamen species have roots on different faces of their whatevers so the genus as a whole presents a problem when it comes to classifying their storage organs. And many plants have fleshy roots that are none of these: peonies, for example. The storage organs of some orchids are regularly referred to as "tubers", e.g. /Orchis/, but others are less certain. The "bulbs" of /Pleione/ are commonly referred to as "pseudobulbs". So in spite of nomenclatural precision by the botanists, there are, as usual, gray areas and unclassifiable structures to keep us all amused and alert. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From boutin@goldrush.com Fri Jul 7 13:45:41 2006 Message-Id: <005f01c6a1ed$3f008e80$473d7143@homecomputer> From: "boutin" Subject: What's a Bulb?, was Re: chocolate scented bulbs Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:46:09 -0700 Fuchsia decidua is an oddity which I saw years ago in the Sierra de Minatlan in western Jalisco. It has a few long, thick, spongy roots, not defined into potato-like tubers, but still tuberous. The thick roots are buried in moss high up on the trunks of oaks. The very colorful flowers mimic the local mistletoes. A tuberous plant but an epiphyte rather than a geophyte. There are several epiphytic bulbs, so this shouldn't be too far off topic. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 10:05 AM Subject: [pbs] What's a Bulb?, was Re: chocolate scented bulbs > On 7 Jul 06, at 14:31, Jacinda and Barry wrote: > > > Good question re: orchids and what counts as bulbs and what doesn't. > > Have always wondered this myself! > > The terms "bulb", "tuber", "rhizome", and "corm" have rather precise > definitions in botanical use, which you can unearth in any suitable > reference. > > Some plants are, as you would expect, problematic: various cyclamen > species have roots on different faces of their whatevers so the genus > as a whole presents a problem when it comes to classifying their > storage organs. > > And many plants have fleshy roots that are none of these: peonies, > for example. > > The storage organs of some orchids are regularly referred to as > "tubers", e.g. /Orchis/, but others are less certain. The "bulbs" of > /Pleione/ are commonly referred to as "pseudobulbs". > > So in spite of nomenclatural precision by the botanists, there are, > as usual, gray areas and unclassifiable structures to keep us all > amused and alert. > > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate > > on beautiful Vancouver Island > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From boutin@goldrush.com Fri Jul 7 14:09:39 2006 Message-Id: <006e01c6a1f0$9b24eff0$473d7143@homecomputer> From: "boutin" Subject: What's a Bulb?, Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 11:10:13 -0700 Another odd "bulb" which I encountered years ago in far western Jalisco, Mexico, on cliffs between Bara de Navidad and Autlan was Pitcairnia micheliana a bromeliad which was quite "bulbous" and had red-red flowers. This one a bulbous lithophyte, or rock dweller. Fred From butterflyamaryllis@yahoo.com Fri Jul 7 16:19:28 2006 Message-Id: <20060707201927.71027.qmail@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: smoke and seed germination Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 13:19:27 -0700 (PDT) A Special Thanks to PBSers: I don't know who originally brought up the subject and research on smoke and seed germination but it became an important treatment in my work here with cotton seed. My limited memory recalls know Lee Poulsen and Don Mahoney contributing to this topic and I thank them and all members who discussed this topic and brought it to my attention. James Frelichowski btw does anyone know if there is a red Zephyranthes that grows in Texas (Brazos county in College Station)? I see them popping up after our significant rainfall here. Don Mahoney wrote: Several fire ecologists at California State University at Los Angelos have been working extensively on identifying the chemicals in smoke that promote germination. In a research paper in the journal ecology (Ecology 79(7)1998 pp 2330-2336.), they found nitrogen dioxide as the main component of smoke which was involved in germination. Nitrates and nitrites had no effect. The chaparral species (annuals and shrubs) that they tested had complicated requirements. Some germinated with smoke alone, some required smoke plus stratification, and a few required abraison of the seed coat also. They were able to exactly duplicate results of smoke by substituting nitrogen dioxide in their trials. At the botanical garden here we use Kirstenbosch smoke papers for much of the South African seed we germinate and find them important for the germination of ericas, proteas and the grass-like members of the Restinonaceae. Restios for us will not germinate without smoke and protea germination is greatly inhanced. Bulbs on the other hand are a little more forgiving and we have had reasonable germination, especially of our own freshly collected bulb seed, without smoke . We still use smoke on stored bulb seed just in case it really does help. I've never had enough seed to do a true controlled test on bulb seed. Don Mahoney, San Francisco Botanical Garden _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. From butterflyamaryllis@yahoo.com Fri Jul 7 18:57:12 2006 Message-Id: <20060707225711.30207.qmail@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: Hippeastrum evansiae Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 15:57:11 -0700 (PDT) Hello Steve: How are you doing? I've been too busy to compile a concise list but H. stylosum (red) and H. traubi f. doranianae are the only bulbs with babies. The rest are single/double and trying to reestablish themselves (in spite of occasional caterpillars). Take care, James. putman wrote: Hi James, Still some left. What's come along well enough to trade after your move? Steve James Frelichowski wrote: >Hi Steve: > I am interested if some are still available. > James Frelichowski > >putman wrote: > I have a few bulbs of H. evansiae for trade or sale. Contact me privately. > >putman@pobox.upenn.edu > >Steve Putman >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > __________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. From barryandjac@bigpond.com Fri Jul 7 21:12:05 2006 Message-Id: <011e01c6a22b$8025eb60$0100000a@user01> From: "Jacinda and Barry" Subject: Thanks Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 09:11:53 +0800 Hi Rodger, Thanks so much for your reply. Still adding to my collection of bulbs (getting back into growing orchids now) and learning lots of interesting info. Kind regards Jacinda Wilson, West, Australia From barryandjac@bigpond.com Fri Jul 7 23:08:30 2006 Message-Id: <000b01c6a23b$bf171910$0100000a@user01> From: "Jacinda and Barry" Subject: Fw: [AB_images] For Sale - Mainly Amaryllids Garden Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 11:08:11 +0800 Forwarded for a friend on the Australian Bulb Society List. Regards Jacinda ----- Original Message ----- From: Daryl Geoghegan To: AB_Images ; AB_Forum Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 6:10 AM Subject: [AB_images] For Sale - Mainly Amaryllids Garden Good Morning Everyone. This email is to notify all interested parties that Mainly Amaryllids Garden is selling ALL STOCK in one lot. The stock encompasses 10 years of collecting of predominately Amaryllidaceous bulbs plus some Iridaceous and Liliaceous bulbs inclusive. This is a genuine sale and will include EVERY BULB I have. The successful purchaser will obtain every bulb in stock used for running/maintaining Mainly Amaryllids Garden. The purchaser can be in any country as I am prepared to send overseas if needed. It will also include the web site name (www.mainlyamaryllidsgarden.com), the web site and any contacts obtained over the ten year period. This is a perfect opportunity to buy an existing bulb business - ready to trade. With ample stock the successful buyer will have an instant bulb business. All help with this transition will be provided as long as needed with detailed assistance with every aspect of dealing and selling bulbs across the world. The entire collection will be offered in one lot. Failure to achieve sale of the business in one lot - will then allow the lots to be organised and sold off in groups. Interested parties can contact me ( genuine inquiries only) at plants_man@bigpond.com Reason for sale is a Career change. Price and Stock Listing on application. List of All Stock will be ready 10th/July/2006 Please spread the word to help aid this sale. Thank You. Sincerely, Daryl Geoghegan. Mainly Amaryllids Garden. __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Polls | Members | Calendar You are receiving Individual Emails Change Delivery Settings Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe New Message Search Find the message you want faster. Visit your group to try out the improved message search. Share feedback on the new changes to Groups Recent Activity a.. 1New Members b.. 1New Links Visit Your Group SPONSORED LINKS a.. Home and gardens b.. Better homes and gardens c.. Home and garden decor d.. Home and gardens magazine e.. Gardening f.. Organic gardening . __,_._,___ From barryandjac@bigpond.com Fri Jul 7 23:22:43 2006 Message-Id: <003801c6a23d$bfcfa8c0$0100000a@user01> From: "Jacinda and Barry" Subject: (no subject) Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 11:22:31 +0800 Hi Rodger, Re: Tecophilaea. I have been meaning to ask if anyone grows this and if it is easy to set from seed. Also I am aware of one of the Bulb Mail order houses that sells it in Tasmania but not of any others. Would love some info that doesn't come just out of a book. Greatly appreciate any assistance as would like to try growing them but they are about $30 each here! Regards Jacinda Wilson, WA. From totototo@telus.net Sat Jul 8 15:33:38 2006 Message-Id: <20060708193337.F829MHPSBG@priv-edtnaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Tecophilaea Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 12:31:43 -0700 On 8 Jul 06, at 11:22, Jacinda and Barry wrote: > I have been meaning to ask if anyone grows this and if it is easy to > set from seed. Also I am aware of one of the Bulb Mail order houses > that sells it in Tasmania but not of any others. > > Would love some info that doesn't come just out of a book. > > Greatly appreciate any assistance as would like to try growing them > but they are about $30 each here! Regards 1. Add lots of fine granite sand (canary grit, say) or rotted granite to your potting mix. Tecophilaea seems to like the potassium granite gradually releases. 2. The bulbs will set seed if you hand-pollinate them. 3. Seedlings reputedly take a long time to reach flowering size and are rather tricky to carry over the first few years. 4. Foliage is scanty so Tecophilaea must be protected from slugs. 5. Give them a circum-neutral soil, pH 6 or 7. 6. Give them a *cool* dry summer rest: no water, but in the shade. I grow mine in large pots so I can give them shelter from hard arctic freezes, but they spend most of the winter outdoors, sheltered overhead from rain, in as sunny a spot as I can provide. They can handle some frost. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sat Jul 8 16:14:14 2006 Message-Id: <000d01c6a2cb$1765dbd0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Tecophilaea Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 16:14:17 -0400 Roger Whitlock touches on a topic of interest to me when he writes (of Tecophilaea cyanocrocus) " They can handle some frost." Can anyone cite some empirical data which gives us an idea of how much "some" is? I've read that this species spends the winter under the snow in at least some areas of its natural distribution. Has anyone in USDA zone 7 or lower successfully wintered them outside? I wonder if this is one of those plants which might do better for someone such as Ellen Hornig who has terrific snow cover - better than they might do for those of us who do not have dependable snow cover. My plants spent last winter outside in pots and went on to bloom (but not set seed after my clumsy attempt at hand pollination); it was an exceptionally mild winter. Any thoughts? Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where I checked my summer-dry Tecophilaea only yesterday and they look fine. From coffeecamp@optusnet.com.au Sat Jul 8 17:45:29 2006 Message-Id: <002e01c6a2d7$d295f870$f30da4cb@geoff2abba5c65> From: "Geoffrey Barnier" Subject: Scented Bulbs - Arthropodiums Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 07:32:53 +1000 I did checkout the Arthropodiums on the wiki & was interested to find that "This species has a brief dormancy late summer, early fall". Whereas, I found it reported in a database of the Australian National University in the A.C.T. where it's a local native that it "Dies back in winter. Water & fertilize spring & summer." I presume that differences in dormancy times would depend on the plant's adaptation to the local climatic conditions. As A. strictus is native from Queensland in the tropics/subtropics to Victoria in the south with its temperate/cool climate it has adapted to quite a temperature range. However, all of these Australian states have a wet summer and a dry winter I believe. I think the wiki's reference is based on Californian specimens where the summers are dry & the winters wet - the opposite to its native habitat. This may account for the difference in its seasonal dormancy. Because our Chocolate Lily is summer growing/winter dormant here, I expected my seeds to germinate in spring and not winter as they did. South Africa is very good at providing details of when to sow their native seed. I've found such detail as scarce as hen's teeth for Australian natives. Geoff in sub-tropical NSW, Australia. From jshaw@opuntiads.com Sat Jul 8 20:46:13 2006 Message-Id: <010401c6a2f1$1478ffd0$6501a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: Subject: Re: What's a Bulb?, Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 19:46:10 -0500 1. Fuchsia decidua is an oddity which I saw years ago in the Sierra de Minatlan in western Jalisco. It has a few long, thick, spongy roots, not defined into potato-like tubers, but still tuberous. The thick roots are buried in moss high up on the trunks of oaks. 2. Another odd "bulb" which I encountered years ago in far western Jalisco, Mexico, on cliffs between Bara de Navidad and Autlan was Pitcairnia micheliana a bromeliad which was quite "bulbous" and had red-red flowers. This one a bulbous lithophyte, or rock dweller. ================ Hi Gang, I sure enjoy the stories and reports from this group. Now I want to visit Sierra de Minatlan and see the oak tree-hugging Fuchsia. Joe More rain today, still warm and humid. An old fashioned Crinum called 'Apostle' (not Tweleve Apostles) finished blooming. What a pretty plant. From jshaw@opuntiads.com Sat Jul 8 22:37:10 2006 Message-Id: <000b01c6a300$943952b0$6501a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: East Texas Bulbs and Such Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 21:37:08 -0500 Hi Gang, I will cross-post this message on the Pacific Bulb Society and the Int. Bulb Society. Cynthia M. and I drove to Vidor, TX today to visit with Marcelle Sheppard and Margie and Lanny B. Margie and Lanny B. have imported interesting bulbs from Asia over the years and grow many of Marcelle's Crinum hybrids. Along the way, near Sour Lake, TX (near the home of Dr. Dave Crinum Guy), we stopped to dig some Zephyranthes chlorosolen. This plant has a list of confusing names, so I always refer to it as the "plant with the long floral tube and the thin green leaves." It seems to be terminally confused with the very different Drummond rain lily. LINK: Z. chlorosolen (Flora of North America Online) http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=41689&flora_id=1 LINK: Z. drummondii (sometimes C. drummondii, etc.) http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=242102082 Anyway, we visited with Marcelle and had a very nice time, heat and humidity be darned. Marcelle continues to attend her Crinum even though she must use a walker can't do digging the past year. She has many hybrids coming along from the Burgundy series, the Jumbo series, the Champange series, and more. Later, Cynthia and I visited with Margie and Lanny, nearby residents of Vidor, TX. Margie's garden, as usual, was in perfect condition and full of flower and attractive foliage. I like the dayliles a lot, but the very special display are the 20-30 different red-leaved Crinum types that Margie grows--impressive and tropical. Margie sent me home with several Canna hybrids for my front yard (now that I have discovered imidacloprid insecticide), and she also gave me various Amaryllis types (Hippeastrum hybrids) for general use along the Zone 8b and warmer Texas Gulf Coast. As is her custom with visitors, Margie even found a plant that Cynthia M. did not have (a wonderfully vigorous and fragrant Amarcrinum (I think from Les Hannibal) and she sent that home with Cynthia. Margie and Marcelle both gave me Crinum plants, seeds, and seedlings from my favorite Crinums (e.g., 'Bride's Bouquet' and Crinum Jumbo "best dark red-pink," etc.). I think that I will surely run out of growing space as all of the bounty matures. Cordially, Joe Conroe, TX From msittner@mcn.org Sat Jul 8 23:56:42 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060708201657.03636da0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Scented Bulbs - Arthropodiums Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 20:56:23 -0700 Hi Geoff, My husband and I have made two trips to Australia in spring to the areas with Mediterranean climates on plant exploration trips with Rodger Elliott as the guide. The first was to Western Australia and the second to South Australia, Kangaroo Island, and Victoria. These areas have rainfall in winter and mostly dry summers. We saw Arthropodium strictum in bloom on our second trip. My field guide for the Grampians gives the time of bloom from September through December. It's been awhile but I think we saw a even smaller version in bloom too, Arthropodium minus. I see it listed in the Encyclopedia of Australian Plants as found in all states and the same for Arthropodium strictum (listed in Volume 3 under Dichopogon). In spite of it being listed in all states the time of bloom is listed for the same months as my field guide, September through December. There were a lot of plants that I thought really wonderful in the Little Desert and Mt. Arapiles Area. I'm not sure some of the ones I liked would fit our criteria, but there were great ground orchids, and a number of monocots with lily in the common name. Arthropodium strictum is found there too and I think that is where we saw both species. And they were fragrant, unlike my plants. Arthropodium milleflorum is found in Queensland, New South Wales, Victoria, Tasmania and South Australia according to the Encyclopedia of Australian Plants so it grows in areas with both dry and wet winters. It is listed as blooming from September to March so perhaps it blooms in spring in the winter rainfall areas and summer to fall in the summer rainfall areas. Last year my plants started into growth in October and they are still green now with a few flowers and green seed pods. Most of my winter rainfall plants have been dormant for a long time except for the California natives. I listed when my plants grow on the wiki, but how they grow for me is probably much the same as they would in the Mediterranean areas of Australia. These plants bloom very quickly from seed (less than one year to two years from seed) so it will be interesting to see what cycle yours chooses to grow in. When to start seed is always a challenge. It's usually recommended to learn what the weather pattern is where it is found in nature and in the case of these species, that wouldn't help you much. Perhaps you'd have to know the origin of the seed. Mary Sue From daffodil@xnet.co.nz Sun Jul 9 08:23:40 2006 Message-Id: <002f01c6a352$801d08b0$0200a8c0@Dads> From: "Bill Dijk" Subject: Tecophilaea info Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 00:23:12 +1200 Dear Jacinda, I think Rodger Whitlock and Jim Kenney just about covered the basics, although growing and raising Tecophilaea's from seed requires a certain amount of knowledge, understanding the genus and dedication to be successful with Tecophilaea's. Everyone on the Internet already knows what my favourite subject is, our success, and involvement with growing the Tecophilaeae's. For further information and pictures have a look at the PBS Wiki page. What a pity you had to pay $ 30 each, I normally sell them for half that price, but then again you'll have to get them from NZ You might try some seed, much easier, but you have to wait 3-4 years before flowering. I am busy at the moment sowing lots of seed, but will have still some fresh Tecophilaea seed for sale if you're interested. Please contact me personally for further information I will also repeat and reintroduce a previous posting of a article I wrote about the beauty and cultivation of his charming little treasure. (my pet subject). Anyway, its that time of the season again, to get me all excited, when one of my favourite treasures the Tecophilaea's are flowering right now. Hope this info will have been some help to you. Bill Dijk Tauranga, New Zealand :annual rainfall :1250 mm. Sunshine hours, mean annual : 2350 hours. Temp.mean max.Summer : 25°C. Winter:15°C. Temp.mean min. Summer :14.5°C. Winter: 5°C. Wet mild Winters with occasional light frost. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dear Bulbophiles, Without doubt, the most sought after of all the smaller (alpine) flowering bulbs/corms: the fabulous "Chilean blue crocus" Its supreme beauty and rarity makes it a must for in every connoisseur's collection, I am of course talking about the 3 winter-flowering Tecophilaea cyanocrocus species and varieties TECOPHILAEA cyanocrocus: another cold climate hardy bulb for the keen grower and collector. This species is now believed to be critically endangered in the wild, mainly because of over-collecting and intensive grazing by cattle and sheep to the point of becoming extinct. Fortunately they are not difficult to grow, and although rare in cultivation, and given the right environment, will not be lost from the planet. They are usually grown in an alpine house or cold glasshouse. Because they are so unique and beautiful, these plants justify special attention and treatment. It starts growth early in the season, but appears to be hardy in all except very exposed areas. and need very good drainage. Young growth can be scorched with severe frost, but will soon harden. Plant in well drained fertile potting mix in full sun 5cm. deep (2inch.) Bulbs should remain cool until growth appears from mid to late winter. Water only when in growth, but be careful not to over-water in warm humid condition. When flowering is finished, gradually reduce water to allow bulbs to go dormant and dry in summer. In view of its small size and rarity T. cyanocrocus sp.are best cultivated in a container or some other "protected" situation where it can thrive and receive the special attention it deserves. As an Alpine house-plant it can more easily be grown and maintained, and a pot of it is always treasured by keen collectors. Bulbs multiply slowly; the best method of increase is to propagate from fresh seed, sown in autumn in a gritty seed mix. Seed will develop more readily when hand pollinated, which required a deft, delicate touch with a very fine camel-hair brush, if it's going to be successful. Sow seeds in a well-drained seed-medium, with plenty of course sand and or pumice for good drainage (May) Our potting mixture is a simple basic 50% composted bark and 50% horticultural pumice and coarse sand, with a well balanced slow release bulb fertilizer and trace elements, that is low in nitrogen. Seedlings will reach flowering size, when grown on for another 3-4 years. Tecophilaea cyanocrocus: one, often two flowers are produced per stem, of intense vivid gentian blue with a white throat. Flowers 2 inches across when fully open. T.cyanocrocus var.leichtlinii: the same beautiful plant with 2 inch. Sky-blue flowers and large white centres. T.cyanocrocus var.violaea: another member of this attractive but rare species, the bright violet blue colour of this form has great charm. Tecophilaea's are always much admired when flowering en masse, a sight never to be forgotten. I sow my fresh seed in May June-July (Southern Hemisphere) in deep seed trays, in a well-draining sterile seed mix, topped off with ½ inch of finer mix or river sand. The seed normally germinate in 6-8 weeks if everything goes according to schedule. During that time I pay particular attention to watering, not to wet, and always start them in semi-shaded, covered open benches, in the coolest part of the nursery, to stop them damping off. As soon as the seeds are up, I usually take them outside to harden off and grow them on, and let nature do the rest. I will attach a picture of successful germinated Tecophilaea seedlings after 3 months, from last season's endeavour on the wiki, for everyone to have alook at. From msittner@mcn.org Sun Jul 9 10:42:25 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060709065048.03630cf8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Tecophilaea info Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 07:31:56 -0700 Jacinda cross posted her message on the Australian list and Rob Hamilton reported on that list what Lee Poulsen has said in the past and that is that his blooming sized Tecophilaea increases every year by reproducing each year a new corm and two small ones next to it. So that in a very short time his initial investment of one expensive bulb paid off in many additional bulbs. I purchased bulbs and seed from Bill Dijk in the past and have some survivors and eventually some blooms, but never any increasing. In my case the number of bulbs I have every year seems to be diminishing. I felt somewhat better after Lee wrote this in May: "It is almost embarrassingly easy for me to grow and multiply the various varieties of Tecophilaea cyanocrocus starting from just one bulb each. I treat them virtually identically to how I treat my Cape Bulbs on an annual basis. I've germinated seeds of T. cyanocrocus a number of times, and I germinate and grow them with my other Cape Bulb seeds that I'm germinating and growing. However, unlike the mature bulbs pots where each fall it seems that each bulb has added 2 or more additional offsets, very few to none of my pots of T. cyanocrocus seedlings bother to emerge in the fall/winter even though their neighbor Cape Bulb seedlings return to growth just fine. The few Tecos that do return grow just fine, but then finally disappear the second summer never to be seen again." There are a lot of people on this list who grow Tecophilaea. What is your experience? Do you find it increases well from offsets? Perhaps it is time for me to try some of Lee's increasing corms to see if they behave the same way in Northern California as they do in Southern California. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Sun Jul 9 10:42:27 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060709072955.0372bad0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Triteleia peduncularis and offsets from corms Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 07:41:57 -0700 Writing my last post about vegetative increasing of Tecophilaea led me to the following thought so I am posting it separately. We had a discussion earlier about a form of Triteleia ixioides from Table Mountain that does not offset whereas other Triteleia ixioides produce many corms. I find that growing many of the cormous species in the Themidaceae family there is a great variation in the ones that produce offsets even in the same species. The form of Triteleia laxa that is so often sold, Queen Fabiola, produces many cormlets which is no doubt the reason it is a popular cultivar to sell as it is quick to increase. Some of the ones I grow increase very modestly. We have discovered Triteleia peduncularis growing on the Mendocino and Sonoma coast this year. It has to have been here before, but I can't remember seeing it. We had late rains so maybe that was the difference. Perhaps it has dried up before it bloomed before as there were still a few finishing blooms on the 4th when I looked for seed. This Triteleia is very low with much shorter pedicels than the ones I grow and have seen before which ruins the key I made a number of years ago as a long pedicel is usually the distinctive way to identify this species. Many of the pedicels were about the same size as the flower and some were almost but not quite twice the size of the flower. The pedicel elongated a bit once the flower had finished, but even when we went back later and looked at these plants the pedicel was often much shorter than I've seen before. The ovary was yellow, but when I returned three or four weeks later had turned to green. It was a good example for me of why keys are so difficult. To find characteristics that fit all forms of a species can be tricky. It partly depends on when you look at the plant besides the variation in forms. In the future no doubt we will just point our dna machines and push a button and the species name will appear so we won't need to know the identifying features. ;-) The T. peduncularis I grow has multiple baby corms every year. I wonder if this form increases vegetatively. There didn't seem to be a lot of leaves around the flowering clumps, but they could have died back by now. If you are interested in seeing this new form of T. peduncularis I've added it to the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Triteleia Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Jul 9 14:40:55 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20060709113424.00c3e8d0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Tecophilaea info Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 11:41:40 -0700 Mary Sue wrote, "There are a lot of people on this list who grow Tecophilaea. What is your >experience? Do you find it increases well from offsets?" In northwestern Oregon I have to grow Tecophilaea cyanocrocus in an unheated bulb frame, where it is kept dry in summer. Mine increase slightly slower than Lee's do, usually just one or two offsets a year. Most years, they set seed, but this year only one potful produced seed; I think this happened because there was a severe cold snap about the time they should have been fertilized, and either there were no pollinators present (I didn't hand-pollinate them, being out of town at the time) or it was simply too cold for fertilization to take place. The group that set seed are a different seed-grown population and bloom a little later than the others. The seeds germinate well but don't always form corms. I've tried growing these plants in a cool but frost-free solarium, but there, they become elongated and do not flower. I haven't lost any in the bulb frame in about 14 years of keeping them there, although temperatures inside the frame have gone down to 20 F. I started with 3 corms purchased from Potterton's in the UK and now have about 20 plants, but I do sell some corms every other year and give seed most years (not this year, sorry) to the NARGS exchange. Incidentally I had a nice visit last week with Arnold Trachtenberg and his wife and daughter, who were vacationing on the West Coast; they were then heading down to visit Diana Chapman and perhaps Mary Sue Ittner. It's always fun at last to meet people one has corresponded with for years on forums. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Jul 9 14:54:06 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20060709114630.00c54f18@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Triteleia peduncularis and offsets from corms Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 11:54:54 -0700 Thanks to Mary Sue for posting the interesting pictures of the "short" form of Triteleia peduncularis. This species is known to hybridize readily with T. laxa -- was T. laxa also present in the vicinity? Did you check whether the stamens were attached at the same level or at two different levels, by chance? One thing I've noticed about T. peduncularis, which I grow both in the bulb frame and in the open garden, is that the longer a corm remains in the ground, the deeper it plunges, and the larger the inflorescence becomes from year to year. I have one in the frame that grew from a seed that fell between the pots years ago; it must be down at the bottom of the plunge, sitting right on the ground cloth, and typically has a head of flowers at least 15 inches (40 cm) across. Seedlings of it in a large mesh pot, in contrast, flowered for the first time this year at about 1/3 that size, also with smaller individual flowers. Given good culture, they should produce as well as their parent (unless T. laxa got to that parent!). Last fall I bought some bulbs of a European named form of T. laxa, 'Rudy'. They flowered very well this spring in a raised bed and are quite showy, since the purple flowers have strongly marked lighter vertical stripes. 'Rudy' also has rather short stems that stand up well, though I don't know whether this characteristic will persist through the years. I recommend it. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From 2frews@mcmedia.com.au Sun Jul 9 17:21:05 2006 Message-Id: <004b01c6a39e$abd28a60$73aadccb@k2f8l8> From: "Terry Frewin" <2frews@mcmedia.com.au> Subject: Subject: Re: chocolate scented bulbs Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 07:28:50 +1000 Sheri, here in Victoria (and elsewhere in Oz) we have the 'chocolate lily' - it grows all around my area, and the flowers do have a chocolate scent, its close relation is the vanilla lily. There are photos on the wiki. regards Terry The post on the gladiolus with the chocolate scent makes me want to enquire if there are other bulbs that have chocolate scented foliage or flowers. Does anyone know of any or is anyone growing some? From msittner@mcn.org Sun Jul 9 21:32:05 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060709181850.023f0a58@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Triteleia peduncularis and offsets from corms Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 18:31:42 -0700 Dear Jane, In one of the spots I saw this plant (on the Sea Ranch) I didn't see any T. laxa anywhere, but it does T. laxa does grow on the Sea Ranch. On the other spot there is T. laxa and it does bloom at about the same time, but it wasn't exactly close to this population. This population was in the meadow not far from the cows and T. laxa was closer to the Bluff on the rocks. I did check the stamens and they are attached at two different levels which is true both for T. laxa and T. peduncularis so that didn't help. T. laxa has variable length pedicels too (20-90 mm. according to Jepson.) When I checked Jepson for T. peduncularis it listed pedicels from 20 to 160 mm. so obviously there are forms that do not have the long pedicels I've so often seen. It's good to know that T. peduncularis likes to be very deep. Maybe it wouldn't offset so much if planted in a deep pot near the bottom. The Robinetts always recommended deep pots for Triteleia, Dichelostemma, and Brodiaea. They will grow and flower in shallow pots, but seem to be more impressive in bigger pots. Mary Sue From barryandjac@bigpond.com Sun Jul 9 22:23:53 2006 Message-Id: <004e01c6a3c7$de2d2dc0$0100000a@user01> From: "Jacinda and Barry" Subject: Tecophilaea info Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 10:23:44 +0800 Hi Bill, Your info was fantastic and I am so glad that it was detailed for me. I am just starting to try some of the so called "more difficult" bulbs and finding this a fascinating Hobby. Would love to get info on obtaining some seed from you if I am able. would be greatly appreciated. Bulbs have captivated my attention from an early age when I used to walk around my Mum's garden as a youngster and "help" by searching for and uncovering the growing shoots of emerging plants! LOL Still think its wondrous even now! Am taking much delight in involving my two littlies in the digging/ planting process. Still working on their delabelling and picking flower habits though! Am loving hunting for hard to get varieties of bulbs and perusing catalogues. What a great learning process this is! Kind Regards Jacinda Wilson, West. Australia From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Mon Jul 10 14:42:47 2006 Message-Id: <44B29F9B.1010805@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Flower Bulb Gallery Updated Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:42:35 -0500 Dear PBSers: Sorry I've been away so long. I'm slowly starting to get back in the groove again, hoping to contribute thoughts and ideas. I just wanted to let you all know that my flower bulb image gallery has an inventory of almost 1100 images. You may go to, http://www.bulbmeister.com/gallery/, to view. If you just wish to view the latest additions (250+), click the "last 14 days" link when you get there. That link will only be useful through the 12th, I believe. You may also choose the "all images" link, then sort by "latest", if you look later than the 12th. To comment, we just finished a trip to visit family down Houston way. On the trip to, I drove by a roadside "clump" (more of a spread, really) of white rain lilies. I could not identify them at 70 miles an hour, but the urge to stop was tremendous! My rain lily pots underwent a full year of neglect with minimal watering. Grass seed found them easily, though, and, now they are full of grass. I treated with Poast over a week ago, and it has stopped the grass growth. It should die off slowly without significant damage to my potted bulbs. Most of my potted stock needs re-potting, if, for no other reason, than to clean out the weeds. Ah, to be human is to be weedy. --kmi Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 10846 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 479-366-4968 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From 2frews@mcmedia.com.au Tue Jul 11 06:16:13 2006 Message-Id: <00a801c6a4d4$1d8f7240$a7abdccb@k2f8l8> From: "Terry Frewin" <2frews@mcmedia.com.au> Subject: Subject: Scented Bulbs - Arthropodiums Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:23:54 +1000 As a follow up to germination times for Arthropodium strictum (choc lily), here in NE Victoria with wet winters & very dry summers (but not wet this winter unfortunately!) - seed that I sowed in the autumn in pots in an unheated poly tunnel, is just beginning to germinate right now. In the bush round here they will start to emerge late winter and flower late spring/early summer. If anyone would like seed I could collect some this season. I think their fragrance is a choc/caramel/vanilla mix. Terry Frewin in the Strathbogie Ranges where our usually reliable winter rainfall has not eventuated this year - so far! From barryandjac@bigpond.com Tue Jul 11 06:46:04 2006 Message-Id: <004c01c6a4d7$2cbd86a0$0100000a@user01> From: "Jacinda and Barry" Subject: Seeds: Scented Bulbs - Arthropodiums Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:45:49 +0800 Hi Terry, Would love some seeds. Haven't tried growing Arthropodiums yet. Was eyeing some off teh other day in Waldecks/Bunnings. About $15-$20 for a pot though. If you could save me some we could do a swap for seeds you might like. I will post at the end of Spring to let you/and everyone else know what I have. Appreciatively Jac Wilson, West. Australia From dszeszko@gmail.com Tue Jul 11 15:06:24 2006 Message-Id: <9912b0b60607111206q1520cc66mb2e111caaed491ce@mail.gmail.com> From: "Dennis Szeszko" Subject: Comments re: Fuchsia decidua Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:06:23 -0500 I recently saw either this Fuchsia species or F. fulgens in flower around the beginning of May. (I am not 100% sure of the identity of the plant and these two species are very similar.) The flowers are spectacular and look like hanging, red/green rocket ships. The plants are not strictly epiphytic because many of the plants also grow as lithophytes in small pockets of dirt between rocks or, indeed, upon the rocks themselves. The plants grow at an elevation of roughly 1800 meters in oak forest in Amanalco, Mexico State. The plants that I saw were growing in an area of rocky escarpments that used to be an ancient lava flow. (Try to imagine an entire oak forest growing directly on top of volcanic rock!) The roots of the plant look like yucca tubers. The plant has older thick branches at the top of the root stock that do not die back completely. Flowers emerge with the new growth at the tips of the branches at the beginning of the rainy season in May. I collected one plant that I tied to a Prunus sp. in my backyard. I will try to take some pictures of the flowers next spring and post them to the Wiki. Given the information about its lifestyle, in the opinion of others, could this Fuchsia be considered a "bulb" for the purpose of publishing the photos to the wiki? This discussion about an epiphytic Fuchsia brings to mind a Dahlia species reported from the extreme southern end of Chiapas state in Mexico near the border with Guatemala. It is exceedingly rare and has only been seen a few times in the wild, but it also grows as an epiphyte in the jungle. It uses its tubers in much the same way that epiphytic orchids use their pseudobulbs to survive periods of drought. I don't know what the Dahlia species is named, and I think that it may still lack a formal botanic description. -Dennis > > 1. Fuchsia decidua is an oddity which I saw years ago in the Sierra de > Minatlan in western Jalisco. It has a few long, thick, spongy roots, not > defined > into potato-like tubers, but still tuberous. The thick roots are buried > in > moss high up on the trunks of oaks. > > From boutin@goldrush.com Tue Jul 11 16:17:06 2006 Message-Id: <006701c6a527$26655300$523d7143@homecomputer> From: "boutin" Subject: Comments re: Fuchsia decidua Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:18:12 -0700 Dennis, Your sighting, if it had red and green flowers, is probably Fuchsia fulgens. The F. decidua had red tubular/funnelform flowers in handing clusters. Only found them growing in the moss on oak trunks, along the escarpment of the Sierra Minatlan, where the fog/clouds would pour over irrigating and air conditioning the mountain in moisture and coolth. Explored nearby rocky cliffs, which were plastered with lithophytes, but didn't see the Fuchsia there. Fuchsia fulgens and F. decidua seem closely related. Fred From totototo@telus.net Tue Jul 11 16:39:17 2006 Message-Id: <20060711203913.20DFQPSPBN@priv-edtnaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Oxalis melanosticta vs. O. purpurea 'Ken Aslet' Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:37:43 -0700 I have an oxalis bought years ago from Avon Bulbs as "Oxalis melanosticta." Somewhere along the line, the word went out (perhaps via a later catalogue from Avon Bulbs) that this was improperly named and the correct name is(was) "Oxalis purpurea 'Ken Aslet'. [Ken Aslet was head gardener at the RHS Wisley garden and there are other plants he picked out that memorialize him, Tropaeolum tuberosum 'Ken Aslet' being perhaps the best known.] Checking the wiki, I see that the entry for O. melanosticta says it is usually is commonly grown as O. purpurea 'Ken Aslet' with the implication that this latter name is wrong. There is also a picture of O. purpurea w. yellow flowers and it sure doesn't look like my plant. Can anyone give us an authoritative rundown on this nomenclatural confusion? What *is* the right name of that silvery leaved yellow flowered tuberous oxalis? Is there really an Oxalis purpurea 'Ken Aslet' as well? Is it the same as the yellow flowered O. purpurea that has been wikificated? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From boutin@goldrush.com Tue Jul 11 17:52:17 2006 Message-Id: <007b01c6a534$648a5e70$523d7143@homecomputer> From: "boutin" Subject: Comments re: Fuchsia decidua Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:52:56 -0700 Dennis, Wanted to add that at the type locality where Fuchsia decidua was first collected by Ynez Mexia in 1927, at Real Alto in the sierras farther to the west and to the north in Jalisco, this Fuchsia was found growing in crevices of rocks. Fred From eagle85@flash.net Tue Jul 11 20:29:14 2006 Message-Id: <21A4BE57-113C-11DB-89B2-00050277B6E6@flash.net> From: Doug Westfall Subject: Sprekelia howardii "success"? Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:19:49 -0700 On Friday, June 30, 2006, at 09:40 AM, wrote: > The microwaved pollen is surely dead and completely infertile. However, > the dead pollen's surface proteins or polysaccharides are still there, > and > they are what one hopes will trigger the proper responses in the > stigma to > allow fertilization by other pollen, not microwaved, that is then > applied > to the stigma. > > You mix compatible but dead pollen with live pollen that would > otherwise be > rejected by the stigma. This way you get no unwanted hybrids mixed in > with > your seeds. > > Clear as mud? > > Jim Shields > in central Indiana (USA) I'd like to thank those who recommended this system. I have tried it using Sprekelia 'Orient Red' pollen which I microwaved as instructed, and mixed it with the S. howardii pollen. We left on a 2 week "vacation". Upon our return today, we have a "swollen" seed pod. Now we must wait to see if this pod contains seeds. I have taken pictures and will be trying the germinating system used for Hippeastrum seeds unless advised otherwise. Doug From jshaw@opuntiads.com Tue Jul 11 21:12:37 2006 Message-Id: <000a01c6a550$45acd840$6501a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: Crinum x 'Canoelands' Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:12:38 -0500 Hi Gang, I got a small bit of this plant from an Australian email friend (Thanks David). I have not given it the love it deserves and find that it has filled out the soil of a 5-gallon nursery pot. So, I'm moving it to a permanent location in the yard. My notes tell me it might be a C. moorei-derived hybrid, but not necessarily so. I have a photo that shows it to be a very pleasant pink. However, I have a couple of questions. 1. Does it enjoy a sunny location? 2. Does it tolerate sometimes-too-wet soil? 3. Does it rebloom? Mostly I just want to place it correctly, and I wonder if it has C. moorei-type growth preferences. C. moorei generally doesn't do well here in the humid south of the USA, but some hybrids from Les Hannibal do very well (no idea how remotely they are related to wild-type C. moorei). Cordially, Joe P.S. The Amarcrinum types continue to bloom, especially an unnamed clear-pink plant created by Les Hannibal. This particular plant is a keeper and enjoys blooming in July and August, the flowers hold up in the Texas sun. P.P.S. The rains are over for now, but June and early July gave us many inches of rain. Now it is just hot and humid; daytime temperatures are about 90 F (about 32 C), and nights about 70 F (about 22 C). From dszeszko@gmail.com Tue Jul 11 22:13:23 2006 Message-Id: <9912b0b60607111913i52c8575eq850031423468db07@mail.gmail.com> From: "Dennis Szeszko" Subject: Tigridia mexicana & Milla biflora Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:13:21 -0500 I updated some information and added a few pictures of Tigridia mexicana and Milla biflora to the Wiki. The pictures were all taken in situ in Mexico two weeks ago. It's always a treat to be able to see spectacular cormous species such as these flowering in their native habitat. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tigridia (look under T. mexicana) http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Milla -Dennis Toluca, Mexico State, Mexico On 7/11/06, pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post: <mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive: <http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Flower Bulb Gallery Updated (Kelly Irvin) > 2. Subject: Scented Bulbs - Arthropodiums (Terry Frewin) > 3. Re: Seeds: Scented Bulbs - Arthropodiums (Jacinda and Barry) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:42:35 -0500 > From: Kelly Irvin > Subject: [pbs] Flower Bulb Gallery Updated > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <44B29F9B.1010805@bulbmeister.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Dear PBSers: > > Sorry I've been away so long. I'm slowly starting to get back in the > groove again, hoping to contribute thoughts and ideas. I just wanted to > let you all know that my flower bulb image gallery has an inventory of > almost 1100 images. You may go to, http://www.bulbmeister.com/gallery/, > to view. If you just wish to view the latest additions (250+), click the > "last 14 days" link when you get there. That link will only be useful > through the 12th, I believe. You may also choose the "all images" link, > then sort by "latest", if you look later than the 12th. > > To comment, we just finished a trip to visit family down Houston way. On > the trip to, I drove by a roadside "clump" (more of a spread, really) of > white rain lilies. I could not identify them at 70 miles an hour, but > the urge to stop was tremendous! > > My rain lily pots underwent a full year of neglect with minimal > watering. Grass seed found them easily, though, and, now they are full > of grass. I treated with Poast over a week ago, and it has stopped the > grass growth. It should die off slowly without significant damage to my > potted bulbs. Most of my potted stock needs re-potting, if, for no other > reason, than to clean out the weeds. > > Ah, to be human is to be weedy. --kmi > > Mr. Kelly M. Irvin > The Bulbmeister > 10846 Hodge Ln > Gravette, AR 72736 > 479-366-4968 > > USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b > > E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com > Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ > Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:23:54 +1000 > From: "Terry Frewin" <2frews@mcmedia.com.au> > Subject: [pbs] Subject: Scented Bulbs - Arthropodiums > To: > Message-ID: <00a801c6a4d4$1d8f7240$a7abdccb@k2f8l8> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > As a follow up to germination times for Arthropodium strictum (choc lily), > here in NE Victoria with wet winters & very dry summers (but not wet this > winter unfortunately!) - seed that I sowed in the autumn in pots in an > unheated poly tunnel, is just beginning to germinate right now. In the bush > round here they will start to emerge late winter and flower late > spring/early summer. If anyone would like seed I could collect some this > season. I think their fragrance is a choc/caramel/vanilla mix. > Terry Frewin > in the Strathbogie Ranges where our usually reliable winter rainfall has > not eventuated this year - so far! > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:45:49 +0800 > From: "Jacinda and Barry" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Seeds: Scented Bulbs - Arthropodiums > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Message-ID: <004c01c6a4d7$2cbd86a0$0100000a@user01> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Terry, > > Would love some seeds. Haven't tried growing Arthropodiums yet. Was > eyeing > some off teh other day in Waldecks/Bunnings. About $15-$20 for a pot > though. > > If you could save me some we could do a swap for seeds you might like. I > will post at the end of Spring to let you/and everyone else know what I > have. > > Appreciatively > > Jac > Wilson, West. Australia > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 42, Issue 15 > *********************************** > From rvanderhoff@sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 12 00:29:22 2006 Message-Id: <20060712042921.2917.qmail@web81014.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ron Vanderhoff Subject: Oxalis melanosticta vs. O. purpurea 'Ken Aslet' Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:29:21 -0700 (PDT) Oxalis melanosticta was originally described by Sonder in the South African publication Flora Capensis in 1860. However, for many years an Oxalis form was circulated under the name Oxalis purpurea 'Ken Aslet'. Even within this name, there appears to be at least two distinct clones. One which blooms well with nice somewhat overlapping petals and another with thinner petals that is a very shy bloomer. In 2002 it was determined (I'm not sure by who) that Oxalis purpurea 'Ken Aslet' was indeed the same as the species O. melanosticta. Nonetheless, many catalogs and other sources still use the now defunct name O. purpurea 'Ken Aslet'. Don't be confused with by yellow-flowered clones of O. purpurea. These look nothing like the silver-haired plants mentioned here. Ron Vanderhoff Southern California, where South African oxalis grow very well totototo@telus.net wrote: I have an oxalis bought years ago from Avon Bulbs as "Oxalis melanosticta." Somewhere along the line, the word went out (perhaps via a later catalogue from Avon Bulbs) that this was improperly named and the correct name is(was) "Oxalis purpurea 'Ken Aslet'. [Ken Aslet was head gardener at the RHS Wisley garden and there are other plants he picked out that memorialize him, Tropaeolum tuberosum 'Ken Aslet' being perhaps the best known.] Checking the wiki, I see that the entry for O. melanosticta says it is usually is commonly grown as O. purpurea 'Ken Aslet' with the implication that this latter name is wrong. There is also a picture of O. purpurea w. yellow flowers and it sure doesn't look like my plant. Can anyone give us an authoritative rundown on this nomenclatural confusion? What *is* the right name of that silvery leaved yellow flowered tuberous oxalis? Is there really an Oxalis purpurea 'Ken Aslet' as well? Is it the same as the yellow flowered O. purpurea that has been wikificated? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jimlykos@optusnet.com.au Wed Jul 12 03:22:34 2006 Message-Id: <004e01c6a585$499cbd00$b194ecdc@AMARYLLIS> From: "Jim Lykos" Subject: Crinum x 'Canoelands' Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:32:10 +1000 Hi Joe, I also grow the same Crinum Cannoelands given to me by David S. It grows and flowers like a superior C. moorei - but with more flowers of good shape and forms a very large bulb. I suspect that it is a moorei hybrid backcross. It grows well in full sun in a garden bed and should be able to manage a damp wet spell, as long as it also has a short dry spell during spring to summer. Its spring-summer deciduous in my garden and flowers heavily from mid to late summer. I have not yet seen it repeat flower but I imagine it would if there was were a number of rain spells during the summer to early autumn. Cheers Jim From jshaw@opuntiads.com Wed Jul 12 18:09:29 2006 Message-Id: <005201c6a5ff$da70d8f0$6401a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: Epiphytic Fuchsias Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:09:30 -0500 The plants grow at an elevation of roughly 1800 meters in oak forest in Amanalco, Mexico State. ---------------------------- Hi, I'm very curious about the cold tolerance of Fuchsia spp. growing at 1800 m on lava. Perhaps they get a few frosts now and then and might like to try a protected location here in greather Houston, TX area? Some Agave species from over 5,500 ft. elevation in Central and South-central Mexico seem OK here, down to very short exposures of 23 F, with daytime temeratures bouncing back above freezing (to 45 F or higher). The main problem I've had with cold-tolerant Fuchia types is that they really resent heat, especially heat coupled with humidity. Cordially, Joe From robertwerra@pacific.net Wed Jul 12 21:10:41 2006 Message-Id: <001f01c6a618$e6d3e470$e8f20c45@popbob> From: robertwerra@pacific.net Subject: Perlite Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:08:50 -0700 To All, Regarding small diameter perlite, I have researched our small town No. Calif. stores. The small package (4-12 quarts) are very small sized in range of 2 mm. The brands are "Premium Unigro" and "Schultz Perlite". "E.B. Stone & Sons" at www.abstone.org comes in 4 cu. ft. at about $13-15 and is larger sized at approximately 4-6mm. Another 4 cu. ft. size at $13 is "OR:CAL Perlite Co." at 2605 Goodrick Ave. Richmond, Calif. 94801. The size is 4-6 mm. I have used this size perlite for years and it seems large enough to suite me. However when I dish it out of the sack, I either wear a mask or hold my breath because of the dust.. An older more experienced grower said he worried about fluoride affecting the plants, but he kept using it. So far my plants have had no cavities or enamel mottling. I have no opinion how well it works because it is only one component. I like that it makes my pots lighter to carry, Bob Werra in Ukiah, No. Calif.--Winter wainfall area From puppincuff@cox.net Wed Jul 12 21:49:29 2006 Message-Id: <005501c6a61e$9099dc30$6401a8c0@Office> From: "chuck schwartz" Subject: Epiphytic Fuchsias Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:49:22 -0700 Hi Joe, I saw your interest in the epiphytic Fuchsias, which i have also, but I have a species, F. boliviensis, that tolerates heat as long as it gets some sun' I've grown it in zone 9 where i got down to 24F. You're welcome to some seed, it's a spectacular plant; grey-green foliage, 3" white tubes ending with dark pink sepals, about 10' tall. chuck Schwartz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Shaw" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 3:09 PM Subject: [pbs] Epiphytic Fuchsias > The plants grow at an > elevation of roughly 1800 meters in oak forest in Amanalco, Mexico State. > ---------------------------- > > Hi, > > I'm very curious about the cold tolerance of Fuchsia spp. growing at 1800 > m > on lava. > > Perhaps they get a few frosts now and then and might like to try a > protected > location here in greather Houston, TX area? > > Some Agave species from over 5,500 ft. elevation in Central and > South-central Mexico seem OK here, down to very short exposures of 23 F, > with daytime temeratures bouncing back above freezing (to 45 F or higher). > > The main problem I've had with cold-tolerant Fuchia types is that they > really resent heat, especially heat coupled with humidity. > > > Cordially, > > Joe > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Theladygardens@aol.com Thu Jul 13 00:59:16 2006 Message-Id: <577.faf928.31e72d20@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Epiphytic Fuchsias Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 00:59:12 EDT Is this a Fuchsia or Begonia? I tried goggling it and couldn't find it. Sounds interesting. Carolyn From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Jul 13 10:24:54 2006 Message-Id: <000001c6a688$1ee5d660$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Epiphytic Fuchsias Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:24:55 -0400 Joe Shaw asked about Fuchsia suitable to his Houston, Texas climate. Do you know the old Fuchisa triphylla hybrid called Gartenmeister Bonstedt? This won't get you the sort of bragging rights that come with rarities such as the wild forms of Fuchsia decidua and F. fulgens, but if you are looking for a heat/humidity tolerant and very ornamental Fuchsia, a plant with real éclat, this is it. Superficially, it is similar to Fuchsia fulgens. In this area, rooted cuttings are commonly available in the late winter or spring from dealers in bedding plants. I grow it as a pot plant; under those conditions it forms a roughly three foot bush which begins to bloom in July (now). Our weather conditions are not that much different from yours at this time of year: 90+ degrees F during the day and 80 degrees F at night with suffocating humidity and often no significant cool off. This Fuchsia can take those conditions well. It will bloom from now into the new year, long after it has been brought in for the winter. And it blooms profusely - there will be hundreds of flowers in hanging clusters during the next five or six months. During the winter it loses most of its foliage - perhaps more in response to the dry household conditions than to any natural growth cycle - and I let it dry out gradually and water it enough to keep it alive. It seems to be very forgiving. There will sometimes be flowers long after most of the foliage has fallen. After its winter rest it may require a bit of trimming to remove dry, dead growth. It's also very ornamental. The flowers are about two inches long and tubular, an odd shade of glowing red which is hard to photograph in my experience. The individual flowers are superficially similar in size and color to those of Lonicera sempervirens. Hummingbirds love it. Incidentally, the foliage of this plant has a red-bronze flush against which the flowers contrast beautifully. I seem to remember reading in a German gardening magazine that it can be wintered by digging a pit, putting the plant in horizontally, and then covering it completely. I have not tried this. I wouldn't be surprised if it survived the winter here outside right against the house wall with a very heavy mulch - but then you would lose the taller branches. You should have no trouble bringing the crown of the plant through a winter in Houston, although I'm not sure what will happen to the taller branches. During the summer it grows out on the deck with am eastern exposure; it gets sun in the morning, bright indirect light for the rest of the day. But for this plant I would have given up on Fuchsia long ago. By all means save a spot for Fuchisa decidua and F. fulgens in the hope that they will be available and grow for you. But in the meantime, give the Gartenmeister a try. I doubt if you will be disappointed. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the first flowers of the year are appearing on Gartenmeister Bonstedt. From dszeszko@gmail.com Thu Jul 13 14:54:04 2006 Message-Id: <9912b0b60607131154l725e7260r7a3a41a41a236432@mail.gmail.com> From: "Dennis Szeszko" Subject: Epiphytic Fuchsia species Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:54:03 -0500 Fred: You are right. I did an online database search of herbarium specimens and it seems that the species I saw is almost assuredly F. fulgens because F. decidua has never been collected in Mexico State. >Dennis, Your sighting, if it had red and green flowers, is probably Fuchsia >fulgens. The F. decidua had red tubular/funnelform flowers in handingclusters. Only found >them growing in the moss on oak trunks, along the >escarpment of the Sierra Minatlan, where the fog/clouds would pour over >irrigating and air conditioning the mountain in moisture and coolth. >Explored nearby rocky cliffs, which were plastered with lithophytes, but >didn't see the Fuchsia there. Fuchsia fulgens and F. decidua seem closely >related. Chuck: A check of nomenclature leads me to believe that you have F. boliviana and not F. boliviensis. This may be why Carolyn was unable to find images of the plant that you describe. >I saw your interest in the epiphytic Fuchsias, which i have also, but I have >a species, F. boliviensis, Joe: I think that Fuchsia fulgens would probably survive brief periods of frost in the early hours of the morning before things warmed up again. The area where they grow is subject to occasional frost in the months of December and January. However, the cover of Oak leaves protects them to an extent, and the fact that they live off of the ground as an epiphyte means that they would not be exposed to the coldest air which would be found at the base of the tree. To help you get a sense of temperatures, the orchids that grow in that area are classified as requiring Cool-to-Intermediate growing conditions. Joe, you are right when you say that the heat and humidity in Houston would probably kill the plant before the cold temperatures would get a chance to cause freeze damage. I don't think that the plant could take sustained temperatures above 90 degrees. I think that people in Northern California or the Pacific Northwest would best be able to approximate the natural growing conditions of this plant. >I'm very curious about the cold tolerance of Fuchsia spp. growing at 1800 m >on lava. Mary Sue was kind enough to create a page on the Wiki for Fuchsia, so I'm going to post a picture of the plant's tuberous roots. The plant I collected is sprouting new growth from the tips of the branches and with some luck I should have flowers in about 3 months or so. At that time, I will update the wiki with pictures of the flowers. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Fuchsia -Dennis From buj.joschko@freenet.de Thu Jul 13 15:27:03 2006 Message-Id: From: "Hans und Babs Joschko" Subject: Gymnospermum alberti Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 21:27:10 +0200 Hi all , Has any expierience with this plants ? A friend send me a tuber of this plant -but not any advices for cultivation - and now he is in holiday and I can reach him not . Maybe anybody can help me with my questions : What kind of soil like this plants ? How deep sould I plant this tuber ? Which side of the tuber is above ? Which size of pot ? The tuber has a size of 50 mm in diameter . Any advices are very welcome -thanks Many greetings Hans From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Jul 13 15:55:08 2006 Message-Id: <32948639.1152820507654.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: janemcgary@earthlink.net Subject: Gymnospermum alberti Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:55:07 -0700 (GMT-07:00) In answer to Hans's questions about this plant, which I grow a lot: >What kind of soil like this plants ? Very well drained, such as a soil with much coarse (sharp, rough, large) sand and grit (small pieces of stone) (sorry I am traveling far from my German dictionary). In my bulb frames, it often grows in the pure sand of the plunge medium, because the seeds are carried around by ants (they have a sort of structure like an aril that attracts ants to eat it, leaving the main part of the seed in a good place to grow). >How deep sould I plant this tuber ?' A 50 mm tuber is flowering size or nearly so, and so you should plant it at least 10 cm deep or even deeper. >Which side of the tuber is above This is almost impossible to tell when it is dormant, but sometimes you can see a little depression (hollow, hole) where the stems were, and that is the top. If it is a bit flattened, put it with a narrow side up, and the plant will grow as it needs to. >Which size of pot ? At least 25 cm diameter, so it has enough depth; and when you place the pot in your alpine house or frame, be sure not to put it beside any tiny, delicate plants, because the big leaves can smother their neighbors. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Thu Jul 13 18:19:07 2006 Message-Id: <745cfc2d0ca21f2256b2484aa8179fea@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Epiphytic Fuchsias Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 15:19:05 -0700 On Jul 12, 2006, at 6:49 PM, chuck schwartz wrote: > Hi Joe, > I saw your interest in the epiphytic Fuchsias, which i have also, but > I have > a species, F. boliviensis, that tolerates heat as long as it gets some > sun' > I've grown it in zone 9 where i got down to 24F. You're welcome to some > seed, it's a spectacular plant; grey-green foliage, 3" white tubes > ending > with dark pink sepals, about 10' tall. > > chuck Schwartz > On Jul 13, 2006, at 7:24 AM, Jim McKenney wrote: > Joe Shaw asked about Fuchsia suitable to his Houston, Texas climate. > > Do you know the old Fuchisa triphylla hybrid called Gartenmeister > Bonstedt? > This won't get you the sort of bragging rights that come with rarities > such > as the wild forms of Fuchsia decidua and F. fulgens, but if you are > looking > for a heat/humidity tolerant and very ornamental Fuchsia, a plant with > real > éclat, this is it. Superficially, it is similar to Fuchsia fulgens. If I'm not mistaken, and I often am, I vaguely recall reading that one of the parents of Gartenmeister Bonstedt was a low elevation Caribbean Fuchsia species, which is where it got it's ability to withstand hot, humid conditions. As with many other such plants, it is pretty commonly available at most mainstream nurseries here in California. It is a very nice Fuchsia, even if you're in a climate where you're able to grow the more typical Fuchsia hybrids. As for Fuchsia boliviensis that Chuck mentions, it isn't nearly as common, but I only recently learned that along with its ability to take the heat, it can also take quite a bit more cold than I at first thought. I got mine at Kartuz Nursery in San Diego County and they claim that it is frost tender. (It also sounds like Chuck has the 'Alba' form; in the common species, the flowers are all one solid dark pink color.) [See descriptions below.] But Woodlanders Nursery on the mid-Atlantic East Coast says Tony Avent (of Plant Delights Nursery; and I think he's on this list too) has successfully overwintered it in North Carolina. Or at least the clone they brought back from northern Argentina has done so. They claim it's hardy to zone 7. So this sounds like an excellent candidate for Joe to try in Houston as well. I think both forms are very striking. In Pasadena they prefer afternoon shade in the summer when it's hot. However, I don't think either are geophytes. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a Both of these places offer these for sale. http://www.woodlanders.net Fuchsia boliviana Bright red tubular flowers in pendulous clusters.This Fuchsia is from a subtropical rainforest region should prove much more heat tolerant than common types. Overwintered successfully for Tony Avent in Raleigh, NC. Tucuman Province, Argentina. Seed, Tafi del Valle, Argentina USDA Hardiness Zone 7-9 ---------- http://www.kartuz.com/ Fuchsia boliviana Frost-tender shrub with soft grey-green leaves and red veins, pendent clusters of long-tubed scarlet flowers. So. American Andies. Onagraceae Fuchsia boliviana 'Alba' Frost-tender shrub with soft grey-green leaves and red veins, pendent clusters of long-tubed scarlet sepals and long white corolla. Onagraceae From dkramb@badbear.com Thu Jul 13 22:11:45 2006 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060713220432.01f7a408@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Manfreda update Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 22:11:45 -0400 My Manfreda virginica is going to bloom for the first time ever. The stalk keeps getting taller each day. It recently surpassed my own height, and I'm over 6ft tall! I just hope it can withstand the sudden gusts of wind so common in our summer thunderstorms. Dennis in Cincy, OH From msittner@mcn.org Thu Jul 13 23:14:40 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060713193815.045d4370@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Micranthus Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:45:59 -0700 Hi, Does anyone in our group grow Micranthus? I tried seeds from Silverhill of two species and one germinated and came back the second year, but I've lost track of it since. Maybe it was a pot the birds pulled the tags out of. They are supposed to increase by corms in the leaf axils and to increase vegetatively (sounds like Watsonia) so I was a bit worried about introducing a pest, but I've not had success so I guess I'm safe. They bloom in summer and are very attractive to butterflies. I've made a wiki page with pictures from Cameron of a species he photographed in the wild. It is supposed to grow in seasonal wet places, dry in winter. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Micranthus Mary Sue From jshaw@opuntiads.com Thu Jul 13 22:56:43 2006 Message-Id: <00a501c6a6f1$234659a0$6501a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: Seed and Bulb Excanges, some Comments Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 21:56:38 -0500 NOTE: Much of this message was cross posted with the IBS. NOTE: Comments welcome here or at my private email address. ------------------------- Hi Gang, I'm a botanist and a plant pathologist by training, and I've always collected seeds and traded them at no charge (in excess of posage costs) to people in Texas, in the USA, and even overseas. Nonetheless, I do hope the best for the PBS and IBS, and will continue to send (now and then) seeds of various types to the seed exchange for distribution and fund raising efforts--it is all to a good cause and all good fun. NOTE: I do hope that, should I provide materials, that provenance information (who made the ID, which specific locality or county is the source of the seeds, etc.), will be passed on to those who get the seed. I have been lucky enought to get seeds from the IBS (not the PBS because I'm not a dues-paying member) and find that specific information is lacking. As a collector, it is not enough to know that seeds have been identified by someone, or that seeds were collected in one country or another. We all know that taxonomic identifications change (for instance, maybe Crinum flaccidum will beome half a dozen species in the future, or note). Anyway, it is very helpful to know exactly where seeds were collected and who collected them. NOTE: As a confirmed cladist (one who does not believe genera and families are anything more than human fictions), I look to the future when we will have much more information about plants. But such information will not easily be derived from seeds labelled "Z. chlorosolen, USA." The seed exchange might as well say, "Some possible expert has provided seeds that he/she claims are Z. chlorosolen, and the seeds might have been collected in Arkansas, Lousiana, Texas, northern Mexico, or some other place, and may be hybrids or not" Provenance is imporant, and no matter how learned and knowedgeable the seed donor may be, identifications without specifics are mostly unsuitable for taxonomic determinations as a later date. NOTE: Please understand, these comments refer to no particular person or seeds. Rather, these comments refer to the practice of sending out seeds without detailed provenance information: who collected them, where were they collected, were they garden grown, and what steps were taken to prevent cross pollinization, etc. FINAL NOTE: The IBS and the PBS take a lot of care in their offerings, and surely provenance issues make up a minor proportion of questions about plant identities. Nonetheless, provenance information is a standard botantical bit of information (as opposed to horticultural informatin), and providing such can only enhance the status of any seed exchange operation (or bulb exchnge). Cordially, Joe Conroe TX From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Jul 13 23:18:59 2006 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Seed and Bulb Excanges, some Comments Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 20:18:55 -0700 I also am interested in provenance, and always try to keep track of seed donors and the places wild seeds came from. Some seed exchanges that used to publish detailed information (altitude, soil, name of mountain, etc) have stopped doing so. I think this is because of the danger of endangered plants' locations becoming known. I disagree with the policy. Seed of endangered plants should not be offered on seed exchanges, and many plants are in no danger of being over-collected, so publishing their locale will not be a problem. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From buj.joschko@freenet.de Fri Jul 14 03:09:53 2006 Message-Id: From: "Hans und Babs Joschko" Subject: Gymnospermum alberti Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:10:02 +0200 Dear Jane , Many thanks for all your detailed informations and advices . It is not a problem with this terms ( sand , gritt .....) - I know it . Now I will pot my tuber and I hope to see in next year the flowers . With best wishes Hans -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]Im Auftrag von janemcgary@earthlink.net Gesendet: Donnerstag, 13. Juli 2006 21:55 An: Pacific Bulb Society Betreff: Re: [pbs] Gymnospermum alberti In answer to Hans's questions about this plant, which I grow a lot: >What kind of soil like this plants ? Very well drained, such as a soil with much coarse (sharp, rough, large) sand and grit (small pieces of stone) (sorry I am traveling far from my German dictionary). In my bulb frames, it often grows in the pure sand of the plunge medium, because the seeds are carried around by ants (they have a sort of structure like an aril that attracts ants to eat it, leaving the main part of the seed in a good place to grow). >How deep sould I plant this tuber ?' A 50 mm tuber is flowering size or nearly so, and so you should plant it at least 10 cm deep or even deeper. >Which side of the tuber is above This is almost impossible to tell when it is dormant, but sometimes you can see a little depression (hollow, hole) where the stems were, and that is the top. If it is a bit flattened, put it with a narrow side up, and the plant will grow as it needs to. >Which size of pot ? At least 25 cm diameter, so it has enough depth; and when you place the pot in your alpine house or frame, be sure not to put it beside any tiny, delicate plants, because the big leaves can smother their neighbors. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ron_redding@hotmail.com Fri Jul 14 03:54:45 2006 Message-Id: From: "Ronald Redding" Subject: Seed and Bulb Excanges, some Comments Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:54:40 +1000 Diane wrote Seed of endangered plants should not be offered on seed exchanges, and many plants are in no danger of being over-collected, so publishing their locale will not be a problem. > Hi, Some very interesting comments and I believe in the conservation through cultivation and there are very good examples of Australian native plants that have been saved this way. If seeds of endangered plants should not be offered on seed exchanges what should be done with them and what of the seed of endangered plants that are in the hands of collectors? There is little doubt in my mind that I or someone else in this group will have plants that will one day have significant value to the re-introduction of their species into the wild and to the genetic diversity that is in the wild or in other collections. We as a group can help save plants from decline and possibly extiction by saving them from destruction in the name of progress. I myself have jumped out of my car in front of excavators to save native crinums from destruction even though they might be common in my area. They now have a safe home as long as I live here and I have given them the chance to continue there line because I chose to collect them. If it is one day proven that they are endangered I can only be even more thankful that I saved them. Kind Regards and Best Wishes Ron Redding Hervey Bay Australia >From: Diane Whitehead >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: Re: [pbs] Seed and Bulb Excanges, some Comments >Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 20:18:55 -0700 > >I also am interested in provenance, and always try to keep track of >seed donors and the places wild seeds came from. > >Some seed exchanges that used to publish detailed information >(altitude, soil, name of mountain, etc) have stopped doing so. I >think this is because of the danger of endangered plants' locations >becoming known. I disagree with the policy. Seed of endangered >plants should not be offered on seed exchanges, and many plants are >in no danger of being over-collected, so publishing their locale will >not be a problem. > >-- >Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada >maritime zone 8 >cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) >sandy soil _________________________________________________________________ realestate.com.au: the biggest address in property http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Fri Jul 14 09:56:13 2006 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A0324E244@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Seed and Bulb Excanges, some Comments Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:56:11 -0500 Hi All: Very good comments and discussion by everyone on this topic. From time to time I request seeds on behalf of Chicago Botanic Garden from the PBS seed and bulb exchange. In return, I've offered up seeds/bulbs that were excess from the Garden's program in return. Invariably the staff member on whose behalf I've requested the plant propagules contacts the donor directly to obtain the passport information (wild collected or from plants in cultivation?; location and environmental conditions, etc.). I also request seeds or bulbs for my own personal use at home. The information provided by Dell and/or the donors is sufficient. The issue of rare and endangered is much less clear. At Chicago Botanic Garden we have plants that were obtained before they were listed as being of conservation concern. Because our collections are documented, if we chose to we could approach the US Fish and Wildlife Service for a permit to legally propagate and sell them - we haven't; but legally we could. A number of taxa are of conservation concern in their native habitats but are relatively wide spread in cultivation - a couple of well known examples include trees like Metasequoia glyptostroboides, Ginkgo biloba, Araucaria araucana, etc. To muddy the waters even further, some taxa are of limited distribution (of conservation concern) in one political unit (country, province, state) but widespread in a neighboring political unit (not listed of conservation concern). This is particularly noticeable in the USA where one state will list a taxa as being of conservation concern but not the surrounding states. If there is even a remote chance the plants may be useful at anytime in the future for conservation or reintroduction purposes I suggest documenting the provenance as completely as possible - even if this means contacting donors privately offline to obtain the information. As an example, seeds of Sophora toromiro were donated to Missouri Botanical Garden by a relative of a Chilean diplomat long before RBG Kew began efforts to begin a captive breeding program to reintroduce it into its native range. Without the information provided by the donor at the time of donation no one would have suspected these plants were unique and highly valuable. Boyce Tankersley Manager of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel 847-835-6841 fax 847-835-1635 From msittner@mcn.org Fri Jul 14 11:34:54 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060714073414.03637ba8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Seed and Bulb Exchanges, some Comments Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:34:31 -0700 Dell has sent out messages to this list of 121 offerings of bulbs and seed since July 2002. I find that rather incredible. The BX was an inspiration of Jim Waddick and I think it has served us very well. It allows seeds and bulbs to be distributed when they are available, not waiting for a once or twice a year date. I routinely share excess material with friends and people I have corresponded with who share my interest in a particular plant, but I have to confess that I really appreciate that I can send things in bulk to Dell to distribute for me. It is very time consuming to clean seed and bulbs. Some seed is especially challenging. The need to do this happen when I have many other garden chores and am repotting and checking on dormant bulbs. Finding packaging material, dividing seed into packets for anyone who might request what I had, and getting to the post office to mail them always takes considerable time when I don't have it. Knowing I can send it to Dell who is an absolute saint for doing this part of the job is often the difference between the seed and bulbs I don't want going in the trash and getting to someone else. Since I get a postage credit for what it costs to send materials to him, I can then request something someone else has given and not have to pay for it. There is a charge since it costs money to send things and for packaging materials. There is no extra charge to send out materials to international members. I am sure that sometimes if bulbs are heavy and to mail to international members it costs more to distribute than the handling charges and there are other times there is a small profit to balance it out. Dell includes information in the BX offerings he gets from donors. If I have time I send more detailed information that I do if I am swamped. I am sure this is true of everyone who contributes. Since the donor is almost always mentioned, it's easy to contact them for more information about what they have given. People occasionally contact me, but usually I have no idea who has asked for what I donate and whether they had any success. As with all seed exchanges it is helpful to validate that what you have is what the donor said it was supposed to be. Even those people who are knowledgeable are not infallible. Many of us in this group are keen gardeners with limited botanical knowledge so even if we want to know what are plants really are, we may not have the resources to figure them out. Each time I tackle an unknown I know it could take me a couple of hours to pour through my books, look up the words I don't know and then I still may end up with not being sure because my material doesn't quite fit the key. One of the reasons why I've started adding pictures of bulbs and corms of certain species is because I get so confused trying to figure out what some descriptions are actually saying. And those descriptions are written in English! Heaven help me if they were written in a foreign language for me too. There are things I grow that the corm can be the defining characteristic so understanding the words is necessary. John Manning wrote a very provocative article for IBSA a number of years ago. In it he spoke of how quickly material is hybridized and his belief that very little of the material that most of us grow is pure. Even wild collected seed could be hybrid if there are several species growing in the same area that bloom at the same time. He suggested that most of us could just garden for pleasure and perhaps set aside a few things to grow that we wanted to protect that we are extremely careful to protect . Many of us in this group are passionate about our plants and grow huge quantities of things. (Note I'm going for the positive spin instead of saying we are addicted to growing more and more.) I hate to admit besides having a garden with all kinds of bulbs in the ground I also have more than 1200 pots and there are others who have more than I do. To hand pollinate all of those things and make sure I did it before all the insects and birds in my garden got to them first would be impossible. So instead of feeling guilty that I am not protecting the identity of my plants, I have decided just to enjoy them. So seed I give is mostly of garden origin and probably is not pure. Every year I end up with additional bulbs and corms that have ended up in pots that are mystery bulbs. Perhaps they came from errant seed or tiny offsets missed when repotting. Each year I have three or four community large pots I plant them in and then I enjoy seeing what they turn out to be when they bloom. This year I'm thinking of sending these things to the BX, but all I could say about them is winter growing mix. They could be something really special or not. If I did this, I'd assume that the people who asked for them would find it fun and not complain about not knowing in advance what they might get. Having said all that I too love to have information about what I grow so appreciate it when people take the time when they have it to include information about what they are donating. But I also know that sometimes there just isn't a lot of time to write very much and I think Dell would rather people donate with limited information than not donate at all. Mary Sue From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Fri Jul 14 13:28:14 2006 Message-Id: <53462783cb5d8774988f7eece2079f2d@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Seed and Bulb Excanges, some Comments Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:28:12 -0700 On Jul 14, 2006, at 6:56 AM, Boyce Tankersley wrote: > Hi All: > > Very good comments and discussion by everyone on this topic. > > The issue of rare and endangered is much less clear. At Chicago Botanic > Garden we have plants that were obtained before they were listed as > being of conservation concern. Because our collections are documented, > if we chose to we could approach the US Fish and Wildlife Service for a > permit to legally propagate and sell them - we haven't; but legally we > could. > > A number of taxa are of conservation concern in their native habitats > but are relatively wide spread in cultivation - a couple of well known > examples include trees like Metasequoia glyptostroboides, Ginkgo > biloba, > Araucaria araucana, etc. > I agree--a good discussion. But I guess I side with Ron, at least in saying that I haven't yet heard some really good reasons why seeds of rare and endangered species should not be grown by hobbyists. If it were the case that, like wild-collected bulbs or orchids themselves, the supply of seeds were also being decimated and wiped out by overcollection, then I would agree with not sharing them (unless they were from plants already in the public domain). Because, one, if it is that rare and there are that many people purchasing the seeds to grow them, then it would seem that sooner rather than later, there would be a bunch of people around the world growing and then further propagating that species. And two, I find it hard to imagine a scenario where all the seed of a species was being collected and yet no one was furthering the increase of the plants in captivity and the species thereby went extinct. (Which is just a twist on my first reason.) Boyce names several species that ARE being grown in cultivation and don't appear to be in danger of extinction in that arena. Another one I know about is Tecophilaea cyanocrocus which was thought for a long time to be completely extinct in its native habitat although a small population of them has since been re-discovered. However, it can be purchased for a price from nurseries and people literally all over the world. A number of us grow it as well, and it's not that difficult to grow. And yet, someone like Osmani Baullosa, who lives in Chile, and has been offering a large number of spectacular native Chilean bulbs and other plants, cannot find or get hold of either seed or bulbs anywhere in his country. They are completely unavailable to him there. But I'm certain they would grow as easily for him in cultivation as, or more likely *more* easily than, they grow for me. So in this case, I think a Chilean like Osmani might actually be glad that this native extremely rare and endangered beauty is being grown by hobbyists and nurseries elsewhere so he can have the opportunity to grow it himself some day. And maybe even possibly help in restoring it to its native habitat. (I am uninformed on this, so I don't know if there are programs in place already trying to re-introduce it into more of its habitat. Certainly, Chilean hobbyists and ordinary gardeners can't obtain it from their local nurseries.) --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Jul 14 14:02:51 2006 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Dennis' Manfreda update Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:01:55 -0500 >My Manfreda virginica is going to bloom for the first time ever. The >stalk keeps getting taller each day. It recently surpassed my own >height, and I'm over 6ft tall! Dear Dennis and all; Our Manfreda is at it's last few blooms. We have three stalks, the tallest just over 6 ft. They hold up to our weather, but now as the large seed pods weigh the stems they are beginning to lean. I recall some mention of whether they are evergreen or deciduous last winter. Ours are well protected (ha) by dense "wildflowers' around the base so they barely show any loss of foliage in winter. In spring we remove the basal protection (i.e. weed) and they pop back into to healthy growth very fast. So far no pups yet. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Jul 14 14:14:43 2006 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Seed and Bulb Exchanges, some Comments Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:14:31 -0700 I haven't yet heard some really good reasons why seeds of rare and endangered species should not be grown by hobbyists. ====================================================================== The seed exchanges I was thinking of when I said that seeds of endangered plants shouldn't be offered on them are the ones that have over 5000 seed offerings each year. The seeds go out in order of the request being received, donors first. There is no guarantee that the people receiving the seeds will be able to grow them. NARGS (North American Rock Garden Society) will not list seed of endangered plants. I don't know what happens if such seed is donated. Perhaps it is given to a botanic garden, which is what happens when CITES listed plants are discovered by Customs inspectors. ACGBC (Alpine Garden Club of British Columbia) makes a point of not publishing names of seeds if they don't have enough to meet expected demand. If they receive a donation of only a few seeds, they will give them to someone who has already demonstrated success with similar seeds. This policy is in place for all seeds, not just endangered ones. The seedlists of specialized societies is the place for seeds of rare plants. If I had a rare plant, I would first distribute it locally, since it had already shown it could be grown successfully in my area. (This would also give me a good chance of getting some back if mine died.) Later I would send seed of it to a specialist list. Only after it was well-established would I send seeds to a large general list. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Fri Jul 14 15:27:25 2006 Message-Id: <20060714192725.97266.qmail@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: Seed and Bulb Excanges, some Comments Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:27:25 -0700 (PDT) >Because, one, if it is that rare and there are that >many people purchasing the seeds to grow them, then it >would seem that sooner rather than later, there would >be a bunch of people around the world growing and then >further propagating that species. And two, I find it >hard to imagine a scenario where all the seed of a >species was being collected and yet no one was >furthering the increase of the plants in captivity and >the species thereby went extinct. (Which is just a >twist on my first reason.) --- Lee Poulsen wrote: AMEN! Having observed the many dead plants in the K.S.U herbarium and working with them everyday I find it hard to see the need in collecting 20-30 plants from the same locality over the course of as many years for scientific reasons(dead plants), i.e a Zigadenus population near here that has been collected from 40+ times the past 80 years. Some of our files have 100+ specimens for various things, even those plants with small ranges. Granted the only rare one that I have had much interest in is Asclepias meadii, and it is limited to 7 collections ,only one made within the past 60 years. Most of the populations of this plant are protected and have been studied for 30+(?) years. Most of these studies involve it's lack want/ability to procreate sexually. But, some do produce limited numbers of seed. Yet the plant is still in Federally Endangered. Had a few of those seed pods gotten into the right hands (Ellen Hornig could do a fine job!) 30 years ago the plant would be spread throughout gardens around the Us or the world. I searched several counties for this spring was Allium perdulce. I spent over 36(or more) hours of my time finding locations in the herbarium, Frasers papers, and just searching suitable habitat. Most of the original collections (1930's) were in Cloud County which is now 90% covered by agriculture land. I found one small population over the course of 400 miles driving and three days time! Only one of his original locations was still in existence on a sandy hillside left uncultivated for cattle. I am currently working on a single population of Dirca, a genus that has 3 species(yes 3, no one seems to have heard about mexicana.) These Kansas plants key out to occidentalis. The property they grow on, a public arboretum, is fortunately protected. But even they have destroyed parts of the population by bull-dozing pathways through it. They have successfully destroyed a small colony of Collinisia verna, one of maybe 7 in Kansas. I have been collecting seed of the Dirca and trying to get it out to people before it is placed on the federal extinction program. Limiting access to plants is the key, not limiting reasonable access to seed for cultivation. I tried to get one branch of occidentalis for a voucher and DNA work this spring from California but never even got a reply. This was from my work address. If someone had the time to make a list of plants actually extirpated by gardeners, and one of plants extirpated by construction, agriculture, urban sprawl, medecine, ethobotanical reasons, and natural causes, I am sure that the latter one would run far longer than the the first. Then make a list of those plants saved by someone with a keen interest in plants. Cultivation + propagation = conservation I would prefer label data down to at least county, province, etc. level if possible. Most botanical journals give out very little location data now. Most herbaria that have online databases give no information besides state. Aaron Manhattan, KS KSU __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From paul@pleione9.wanadoo.co.uk Fri Jul 14 17:11:01 2006 Message-Id: From: "Paul Cumbleton" Subject: Oxalis melanosticta vs. O. purpurea 'Ken Aslet' Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:10:58 +0100 Here at Wisley we still grow this lovely Oxalis that used to carry the name of one of our previous Superintendents, Ken Aslet. The Botany Department here take the same view that Ron outlined, that the correct name is O. melanosticta - but I'm not sure what the story behind this is. On a separate topic, I am lucky to be attending the Interim International Alpine Plant Conference organised by NARGS in Utah next week. Are any other PBS members attending? - it would be nice to see you there. Paul Cumbleton (Senior Supervisor, Alpine Plants Dept., Wisley) Berkshire, U.K. Zone 8 From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Fri Jul 14 17:23:03 2006 Message-Id: <319acd758ab8a1e786b51895413b1ea1@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Seed and Bulb Exchanges, some Comments Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:22:56 -0700 On Jul 14, 2006, at 11:14 AM, Diane Whitehead wrote: > I haven't yet heard some really good reasons why seeds of rare and > endangered species should not be grown by hobbyists. > ====================================================================== > > The seed exchanges I was thinking of when I said that seeds of > endangered plants shouldn't be offered on them are the ones that have > over 5000 seed offerings each year. The seeds go out in order of the > request being received, donors first. There is no guarantee that the > people receiving the seeds will be able to grow them. Thank you Diane for qualifying your remarks. They make more sense to me now. (Plus your additional comments in your email seem very reasonable to me.) > > NARGS (North American Rock Garden Society) will not list seed of > endangered plants. I don't know what happens if such seed is > donated. Perhaps it is given to a botanic garden, which is what > happens when CITES listed plants are discovered by Customs inspectors. This very last point has been bothering me ever since the last time I brought some plants back with me from abroad (with permits and phytos and everything), and while the LAX Customs agent was taking them away from me to be inspected (and picked up the next day), I asked him what they did with plants that people brought back with them without all the permits. He said they would either destroy them or turn them over to a place designated to receive illegally imported plant material. I somewhat shockedly asked if they destroyed endangered or nearly extinct plants just because they were brought in illegally. He tried to assure me that no, they would turn those over to the proper people. When I further inquired who that might be and what they did with the plants (like rare orchids for example), he said that usually they gave those plants to the L.A. Zoo and the Zoo planted them in their gardens throughout the zoo. Now I'm curious just why the L.A. Zoo would be better prepared and knowledgeable enough to grow any random rare plant that shows up, than anyone else including specialist hobbyists would be? And if all these confiscated plants are planted somewhere, even if they were turned over to better qualified places such as the Huntington or the San Diego Zoo for that matter, where are they and how can we find out what they are and where they're planted in order to see them? And in the case of rare orchids for example, who gets them? If someone tried to illegally bring a Worsleya back from Brazil with them and it got confiscated, who would end up with it and what would they do with it? It's not like any professional plant person or botanist here in California is really going to know how to grow it better than the top experts (but still merely hobbyists) on the Worsleya email list who have actually successfully grown them. In fact, I would bet there isn't any professional botanist or other official botanical professional here in California who knows better how to grow them than the best hobbyist growers in Australia do. I think the botanical officials here would stand a good chance of killing it. Anyway, since I've never seen anything particularly rare or really unusual that is CITES listed that no one else has at either the L.A. Zoo or at the Huntington or the L.A. Arboretum, they're either permanently keeping them out of sight so that only the professionals who work there, and their friends, ever get to see them, or they're losing them just as much as we mere hobbyist would if we tried to grow them on. Furthermore, now that the plant is here anyway, why don't they propagate it in some way, by cloning or seeds or division, and get it out there so that bad people don't keep trying to smuggle them in and decimate the native populations? Just wondering. End of gripe session. ;-) --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Fri Jul 14 18:38:41 2006 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A0324E24C@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Seed and Bulb Exchanges, some Comments Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:38:40 -0500 Hi Lee: The US Fish and Wildlife Service has a number of institutions that have agreed to accept illegially imported plants. Typically they are botanic gardens, zoos, universities, etc. with strong conservation programs or well run facilities. We, Chicago Botanic Garden, are one of over 50 institutions in this program. It works like this, we get a call from an officer at Fish and Wildlife on a rotational basis. If the plants are of interest or further or collection goals we accept them. The conditions are that they have to be held within the institution (not sold or distributed) and that we will submit reports on a periodic basis documenting their status (alive, dead, thriving, etc.). If we don't want some of the seized plants, the Fish and Wildlife officer continues to call other centers until they all have a happy home. As you can imagine, some of these plants were not handled in the best manner prior to being seized or do not respond well to treatments at USDA to insure no pests have also been imported. Everybody involved does the best they can but loses occur. We don't advertise what we have a particular set of resuced plants for several reasons. Security of the collections is paramount (we don't want an irrate importer repossessing them during a 'midnight unauthorized' collection event. The countries of origin also have the legal right to ask that they be repatriated - sometimes these requests are not received until after the plants have been sent to us. Most arrive with very little documentation - usually just a genus or family and country of origin. Most plants appear to have been brought into the US by folks who didn't know it is illegal; every once in a while we get offered large shipments of very well documented plants of choice genera that tend to suggest a knowledgeable plantsperson was responsible (who should also know the rules). Hope this helps clarify the process. Boyce Tankersley Manager of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel 847-835-6841 fax 847-835-1635 -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Lee Poulsen Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 4:23 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Seed and Bulb Exchanges, some Comments This very last point has been bothering me ever since the last time I brought some plants back with me from abroad (with permits and phytos and everything), and while the LAX Customs agent was taking them away from me to be inspected (and picked up the next day), I asked him what they did with plants that people brought back with them without all the permits. He said they would either destroy them or turn them over to a place designated to receive illegally imported plant material. I somewhat shockedly asked if they destroyed endangered or nearly extinct plants just because they were brought in illegally. He tried to assure me that no, they would turn those over to the proper people. When I further inquired who that might be and what they did with the plants (like rare orchids for example), he said that usually they gave those plants to the L.A. Zoo and the Zoo planted them in their gardens throughout the zoo. Now I'm curious just why the L.A. Zoo would be better prepared and knowledgeable enough to grow any random rare plant that shows up, than anyone else including specialist hobbyists would be? And if all these confiscated plants are planted somewhere, even if they were turned over to better qualified places such as the Huntington or the San Diego Zoo for that matter, where are they and how can we find out what they are and where they're planted in order to see them? And in the case of rare orchids for example, who gets them? If someone tried to illegally bring a Worsleya back from Brazil with them and it got confiscated, who would end up with it and what would they do with it? It's not like any professional plant person or botanist here in California is really going to know how to grow it better than the top experts (but still merely hobbyists) on the Worsleya email list who have actually successfully grown them. In fact, I would bet there isn't any professional botanist or other official botanical professional here in California who knows better how to grow them than the best hobbyist growers in Australia do. I think the botanical officials here would stand a good chance of killing it. Anyway, since I've never seen anything particularly rare or really unusual that is CITES listed that no one else has at either the L.A. Zoo or at the Huntington or the L.A. Arboretum, they're either permanently keeping them out of sight so that only the professionals who work there, and their friends, ever get to see them, or they're losing them just as much as we mere hobbyist would if we tried to grow them on. Furthermore, now that the plant is here anyway, why don't they propagate it in some way, by cloning or seeds or division, and get it out there so that bad people don't keep trying to smuggle them in and decimate the native populations? Just wondering. End of gripe session. ;-) --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jshaw@opuntiads.com Fri Jul 14 19:26:03 2006 Message-Id: <00c201c6a79c$e030f740$6501a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: I'm ranting, stop me Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:26:02 -0500 Hi Gang, I have received wonderful private notes and have read other postings. I can see that I really am a plant-nut in the extreme, and that I care about some things that are not of interest to all. Please accept my comments as good natured banter, and I will happily sit in the doghouse for a day or two. It goes without saying, the PBS is a great place to make friends and to learn. Cordially, Joe Shaw Nearly 100 F here today. Wow, how do the Amarcrinum stay so pretty. From msittner@mcn.org Fri Jul 14 20:23:26 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060714171950.036a9268@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Rhodophiala bulb request Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:23:07 -0700 Hi, I'm sending on this request from the newest member of our list who posted this from another email address. Please contact him at the email address below if you can help him. Thanks. Mary Sue My name is Jay Miner. I am a botanical illustrator living in N.C. at the moment.This past year I spent six months in Chile painting the native flora, including four species of Rhodophiala. To complete the paintings I would love to include the bulb and I am wondering if you know of a source in the U.S. where I could purchase bulbs for the following species: R.advena, R.laeta, R.bagnoldii and R.phycelloides. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Jay Miner jwm5054@yahoo.com From dkramb@badbear.com Fri Jul 14 23:39:44 2006 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060714232126.01aca2a0@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: oh rapture! Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 23:40:02 -0400 I came home about 10:30pm tonight and found my first Manfreda flowers had opened. How heavenly scented!!! To experience the fresh new bloom of a new species... let alone a new genus... oh the rapture! Words can't describe. :-) Dennis in Cincinnati From totototo@telus.net Sat Jul 15 13:38:39 2006 Message-Id: <20060715173838.4DD7T92XUE@priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Tecophilaea Grown in Chile?, was Re: Seed and Bulb Excanges Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:37:06 -0700 On 14 Jul 06, at 10:28, Lee Poulsen wrote: > ...Tecophilaea cyanocrocus... Osmani Baullosa, who lives in Chile, and > has been offering a large number of spectacular native Chilean bulbs > and other plants, cannot find or get hold of either seed or bulbs > anywhere in his country. They are completely unavailable to him there. A horticultural friend and her boat-oriented husband went to Chile some years ago for a sailing regatta. After she returned, in conversation I mentioned tecophilaea. Her reply was "oh, that blue thing they grow in the gardens in Santiago." From what she said, tecophilaea is well known as a garden plant in Chile, at least among the more serious gardeners. Why Osmani Baullosa is unable to acquire any locally is a mystery to me. Is there perhaps another blue bulb that my friend mistook for tecophilaea? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat Jul 15 14:38:19 2006 Message-Id: <44B9361A.4090407@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: [Fwd Eddie McRae] Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:38:18 -0400 This was on the lily list. I apologize if this a duplicate message to some. Arnold I realize this is an off-topic message, but for those of you who don't know Eddie, please forgive the intrusion. I thought this was the fastest and best way to get information to those who know and love him best. Eddie has had a stroke and was admitted to the hospital on Monday. On Wednesday, he was transferred to Rehabilitation Institute of Oregon (RIO) at Legacy Hospital in downtown Portland. He will likely be undergoing treatment there for at least 10 days or more. His prognosis is good, and this and his physical strength (and, no doubt, his stubborn Scottish work ethic) are going to serve him well as he undergoes therapy to regain as much function as possible. He is feeling tired, but already walking with just a bit of help and working on his exercises. His speech and vision are slightly impaired, but he would love to hear from you if you'd like to drop him a card or note. You can write to him at: Eddie McRae, Room 10 Rehabilitation Institute of Oregon 1015 N.W. 22nd Avenue Portland, Oregon 97210 Thank you for keeping a good thought for him. Best wishes, Catherine van der Salm (Eddie's daughter) __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls ALL messages & photos on this group are copyright and MAY NOT be used for any purpose without the express written permission of the author/photographer. Yahoo! Groups You are receiving Individual Emails Change Delivery Settings Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe New Message Search Find the message you want faster. Visit your group to try out the improved message search. Share feedback on the new changes to Groups Recent Activity * 8 New Members * 5 New Photos Visit Your Group . __,_._,___ From jshaw@opuntiads.com Sat Jul 15 22:58:29 2006 Message-Id: <007701c6a883$b838f340$6501a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: Hundson River Climate Query Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 21:55:21 -0500 Hi Gang, I have sent some Crinum bulbs and a few odds and ends to a gardening email friend. But, I'm unsure about how they will fare in the new climate. My friend lives in the greater Hoboken, NJ area, not far from the west bank of the Hudson River. I think the location might support some Crinum, but am not sure. Does anyone have experience for the area along the Hudson River, just west of Manhattan? Cordially, Joe Still hot, and the Amarcrinum are still holding up. They are not all the same, but all of mine have fragrance, and a single flower is nice to bring inside. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Jul 15 23:33:09 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20060715202508.00c5a178@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Seed and Bulb Exchanges, some Comments Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 20:31:19 -0700 Diane Whitehead wrote, > NARGS (North American Rock Garden Society) will not list seed of >endangered plants. I don't know what happens if such seed is >donated. Perhaps it is given to a botanic garden, which is what >happens when CITES listed plants are discovered by Customs inspectors. This is not quite true. I was the intake cataloger for this exchange for 3 years in the mid-1990s, so I have experience with its policies. NARGS will list seed of CITES listed plants and endangered species if the seed is FROM A CULTIVATED SOURCE (garden collected). I don't remember encountering any wild collected seed of federally listed endangered species donated to the exchange. As for state listed species, NARGS does not maintain this information on its database, as far as I know; and given the strange things that happen with state listing (particularly the tendency to list outlying populations of plants that are common in other states), this makes sense to me. Certainly CITES listing doesn't come into it, as you can see by the long list of garden-grown Cyclamen seeds on the NARGS seedlist (the whole genus Cyclamen is CITES listed as a result of overcollecting of tubers from the wild, mostly in Turkey). The only seeds discarded by the NARGS exchange are obviously non-viable ones, rotten ones, those too large to handle (e.g., oak seeds), and a whole list of noxious weeds -- many of the latter are donated by European members who classify as "wildflowers" plants that, on introduction to North America, became "noxious weeds." Jane McGary From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sun Jul 16 12:38:22 2006 Message-Id: <000001c6a8f6$44543bb0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Hundson River Climate Query Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:38:28 -0400 Joe Shaw asked about Crinum along the Hudson River. I have no experience gardening there, but the old New Illustrated Encyclopedia of Gardening (c. 1960) edited by T.H. Everett illustrates its article on Crinum with a caption which states that Crinum x powellii is hardy as far north as New York City. It was this statement which prompted me to plant my first Crinum about forty years ago. BTW, when I first read Joe's post, I thought it said Hudson Bay! I think even Crinum x powellii might have trouble there. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where we are predicted to have four days with daily temperatures at or near 100 degrees F beginning tomorrow. From davidxvictor@btinternet.com Sun Jul 16 13:11:50 2006 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060716174842.033f19c0@btinternet.com> From: David Victor Subject: Oxalis melanosticta Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:11:03 +0100 Hi there everyone, I think that I can throw some light on this subject. Around five years ago I had a long conversation with Allan Robinson, who used to be in the Alpine Department at RHS Wisley. Both of us were interested in Oxalis and had some doubts over the naming of this well known plant, which had wobbled around over the years. Mike Grant, who was then the botanist in the Wisley Herbarium and is now the Editor of The Plantsman, was brought into the conversation in the hope that he could determine its correct name. I laboriously typed typed out the description in my copy of Salter's monograph and e-mailed it to him. He then confirmed it to be O. melanosticta Sond. Incidentally, the flower colour can vary from bright yellow to cream and I believe the cultivar 'Ken Aslet' to refer to the bright yellow form that is common in cultivation in the UK, though I don't know where it was first published. Best regards, David Victor From jshaw@opuntiads.com Sun Jul 16 15:32:57 2006 Message-Id: <000b01c6a90e$a5b7cbc0$6501a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: Crinum self-promotion Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:32:57 -0500 Hi Gang, If you follow the link below, you can find some photos I put up on the Texas Garden Web Forum to advertize a talk on Crinum. The talk will be about plants that do well along the Gulf Coast. Crinum don't like it here very much but some do very well. With care some of the other species can be grown. Dave L. has written a good article in this regard, see the second link. LINK: Crinum Photo Montage http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/txgard/msg0712405216976.html?2 LINK: Cultivation of African Crinum in Pots and Tubs, Dave L., 1996, Herbertia, reproduced by permission of the International Bulb Society (an organization devoted to the enjoyment and cultivation of bulbs). http://www.crinum.iconx.com/attachments/African-Crinums-in-Pots.pdf A while back someone requested that the talk be video taped. That is not in the works, but the PowerPoint presentation can be mailed out to Bulb or Garden clubs, etc. Just write to me off list and I'll see what can be arranged. Cordially, Joe Hot, hot, hot today in Conroe. I'm watering everything and the plants want more water. From jshields104@insightbb.com Sun Jul 16 16:24:36 2006 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20060716161000.03bf4708@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Hardy Bulbs Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 16:24:08 -0400 Hi all, The Crinum variabile are in bloom now. This is earlier than usual for them. Note that these are growing in the ground year-round here. These are in a raised bed of highly improved topsoil, about 15 feet from the south end of the big greenhouse. I have never been able to get these to bloom in containers. Since they seem perfectly hardy in the ground, it is very convenient to grow them that way, and the bloom like crazy in July or August. Various Crinum grow around the east and south sides of one of the older and smaller greenhouses. About to bloom again is Crinum 'Catherine', while a couple of pink 'J.C. Harvey'-like hybrids have been blooming for weeks. The various C. bulbispermum seem to have bloomed out after only 2 or 3 scapes apiece. All these are also in the ground. Growing right up against the east wall of this same greenhouse, a bunch of Zantedeschia 'Black Pearl' are in bloom now. Just in front of 'Black Pearl' is another hardy Gladiolus, probably volunteers of G. imbricatus from a dumped seed pot. I just collected a few seeds from this glad. Galtonia candicans is in bloom now too. Galtonia candicans is also hardy in the ground here, in selected beds. They don't like low-lying beds or clay soil! They are doing great in a raised bed made of composted leaves, topsoil, and coarse brown sand. Gladiolus oppositiflorus salmoneus is also hardy here in spots. They have not bloomed yet this summere. They are growing in the same bed as the Crinum variabile. Planted among the Galtonia, all the glads disappeared. I suspect that was due to mice more than to weather. Regards, Jim Shields in very hot central Indiana (USA) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jshaw@opuntiads.com Sun Jul 16 20:01:40 2006 Message-Id: <004501c6a934$2f34f0b0$6501a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: Those darn wannabe geophyte things Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 19:01:41 -0500 Hi Gang, I purchased seeds of Aloe cooperi a few years back from Silverhill Seeds. The seeds germinated easily, and the plants have grow well, so well that I gave some away. In the beginning, I was not sure what to expect, and kept the plants in a position that was not sunny enough. I was sure they would die with the least provocation. However, they did survive, and I potted them up to 2-gallon containers are year ago (or so). I put in lots of scoria, perlite, and very coarse sand. The plants hardly blinked when temperatures dropped to 23 F for an hour or two in the past 2 winters (about -5 C). They certainly did not lose their leaves; in fact they never lose their leaves, perhaps it is just not cold enough or dry enough here. The leaves reach to about 24 inches in length, and may get a bit of tip damage in winter, but they don't die back. This year the plants are tall, leaves over 24 inches, and the biggest plant has 4-5 leaf clumps; the scape reaches higher than the leaves. They don't make seed unless I hand pollinate them; I think they are lacking the right bird or insect. What keepers! The flowers are not exactly super gorgeous, but growing aloes outdoors in Houston is not a usual occurance. I have some more seedlings coming on (2 years behind), and some A. ecklonis and a few other things. I don't know if fungicides are helping, but I have always provided myclobutanil for the outside aloes, the seed grown Aloes from Silverhill. I use the Spectracide lawn granules/meal and put it over the top of the soil (they grow in pots), several times a year. Maybe they would do OK without fungicide, I can't say. However, from experience growing cacti here, I take no chances with plants from arid climates. Cordially, Joe From pcamusa@hotmail.com Mon Jul 17 08:10:14 2006 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: Those darn wannabe geophyte things Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 08:10:09 -0400 Joe- I agree that A. cooperi is more than a keeper. My cooperi just started blooming while I was out of town. The flower head is larger than I expected from such a small plant and the flowers are nicely pendant. I am growing mine outside in a smal pot (bright, partial sun) and much wetter than I grow other aloes (due to a wet summer and my travel preventing bringing it in). I estimate that the soil in the pot has only dried completely two times this summer, at best. Despite the excessive moisture, it looks quite healthy. I've now moved it to a drier location under the eaves. I hope thats not a mistake, but I worry about rot. I just noticed a second flower head emerging while the first is not even halfway through blooming! Regards, -Phil >From: "Joe Shaw" >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: >Subject: [pbs] Those darn wannabe geophyte things >Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 19:01:41 -0500 > >Hi Gang, > >I purchased seeds of Aloe cooperi a few years back from Silverhill Seeds. >The seeds germinated easily, and the plants have grow well, so well that I >gave some away. > >In the beginning, I was not sure what to expect, and kept the plants in a >position that was not sunny enough. I was sure they would die with the >least provocation. > >However, they did survive, and I potted them up to 2-gallon containers are >year ago (or so). I put in lots of scoria, perlite, and very coarse sand. >The plants hardly blinked when temperatures dropped to 23 F for an hour or >two in the past 2 winters (about -5 C). They certainly did not lose their >leaves; in fact they never lose their leaves, perhaps it is just not cold >enough or dry enough here. The leaves reach to about 24 inches in length, >and may get a bit of tip damage in winter, but they don't die back. > >This year the plants are tall, leaves over 24 inches, and the biggest plant >has 4-5 leaf clumps; the scape reaches higher than the leaves. They don't >make seed unless I hand pollinate them; I think they are lacking the right >bird or insect. What keepers! The flowers are not exactly super gorgeous, >but growing aloes outdoors in Houston is not a usual occurance. > >I have some more seedlings coming on (2 years behind), and some A. ecklonis >and a few other things. I don't know if fungicides are helping, but I have >always provided myclobutanil for the outside aloes, the seed grown Aloes >from Silverhill. I use the Spectracide lawn granules/meal and put it over >the top of the soil (they grow in pots), several times a year. Maybe they >would do OK without fungicide, I can't say. However, from experience >growing cacti here, I take no chances with plants from arid climates. > > >Cordially, > > >Joe > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From dells@voicenet.com Mon Jul 17 14:58:42 2006 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 122 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:00:08 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by people from all over the world, to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 122" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (cash, check, or Paypal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: .... Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com . If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER.. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Jim Waddick: Jim says, "I hope everyone is not up to their ears in Crinum bulbispermum 'Jumbo'. I have been collecting seed from plants by color and separating the smaller ones away. Of course all plants are in close proximity here and open pollinated so there may be some cross breeding and mixing. They originated from seed from Marcelle Sheppard's 'Jumbo' strain over 5 years ago. All parent plants are vigorous and have wintered over in Zone 5 with light mulch. No guarantee that seedlings will be true to color, just from parents of the colors listed." 1. Seed from pale pink parents - These may be pale pink 'self' or have pink stripes along the mid-line of each petal. Foliage is glaucous and up to 6 ft long. Flower scapes around 3 ft. 2. Seed from deep pink parents - I refrain from calling these 'red', but the flowers are evenly deep pink to dark rose and have no sign of stripes in the deeply colored petals. Size of plants and foliage as above. 3. Seed from pure white parents - These flowers open wide and have no hint of pink. Plants are about half the size of the above and flowers too. Suited to even a small garden spot. Plants seem vigorous, just smaller in all aspects. From Don Osborne: 4. Seed of Tritonia sp?, rose red/ pink 5. Cormlets of Tritonia sp?, light pink, ex. UC Berkeley gardens 6. Cormlets of Tritonia sp?, rose red/ pink, ex. UC Berkeley gardens 7. Small corms of Wachendorfia sp?, ex. UC Berkeley gardens From Shirley Meneice: 8. Seed of Zigadenus fremontii 9. Cormlets of Ixia sp?, most creamy white; a few deep maroon From Dell Sherk: 10. Bulblets of Griffinia espiritensis espiritensis; evergreen; petiolate amaryllid; pretty, lilac flowers at almost anytime of the year; offsets readily; originally from Kevin Preuss Thank you, Jim, Don, Shirley, and Kevin !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From khixson@nu-world.com Mon Jul 17 16:18:58 2006 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20060717131752.027823b0@mail.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: "rare red lily" Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:18:44 -0700 Dear members: Our local newspaper printed an article today from the associated press, with the above phrase included in the title. Turns out that the Jacksonville (Oregon) Woodland Association wants to prevent rezoning a mine to allow additional mining for gold and sand. The "rare red lily" is Fritillaria gentneri, which is indeed rare and endangered--but not a lily of course. It may or may not be present on the property--no one has found any recently, though they once were said to grow there. Ken From dells@voicenet.com Mon Jul 17 16:43:43 2006 Message-Id: <20060717204342.E8B8A4C00B@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Seed and Bulb Exchanges, some Comments Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:44:03 -0400 Dear Diane, Yes, I think your comments are right on, as usual. Dell -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Diane Whitehead Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 2:15 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Seed and Bulb Exchanges, some Comments I haven't yet heard some really good reasons why seeds of rare and endangered species should not be grown by hobbyists. ====================================================================== The seed exchanges I was thinking of when I said that seeds of endangered plants shouldn't be offered on them are the ones that have over 5000 seed offerings each year. The seeds go out in order of the request being received, donors first. There is no guarantee that the people receiving the seeds will be able to grow them. NARGS (North American Rock Garden Society) will not list seed of endangered plants. I don't know what happens if such seed is donated. Perhaps it is given to a botanic garden, which is what happens when CITES listed plants are discovered by Customs inspectors. ACGBC (Alpine Garden Club of British Columbia) makes a point of not publishing names of seeds if they don't have enough to meet expected demand. If they receive a donation of only a few seeds, they will give them to someone who has already demonstrated success with similar seeds. This policy is in place for all seeds, not just endangered ones. The seedlists of specialized societies is the place for seeds of rare plants. If I had a rare plant, I would first distribute it locally, since it had already shown it could be grown successfully in my area. (This would also give me a good chance of getting some back if mine died.) Later I would send seed of it to a specialist list. Only after it was well-established would I send seeds to a large general list. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From dells@voicenet.com Mon Jul 17 16:43:44 2006 Message-Id: <20060717204344.3B98A4C00B@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Seed and Bulb Exchanges, some Comments Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:44:03 -0400 Dear Mary Sue, I very much agree with and appreciate your comments on this subject! Thank you. I was not able to see Joyce when I was in Portland, but we talked on the phone. I had a great time with family. My only (but exciting) bulb finds were some Calochortus sp? and Xerophyllum sp (bear grass) in beautiful natural bloom on the slopes of Mt Hood. Best wishes, Dell From dkramb@badbear.com Mon Jul 17 20:45:19 2006 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060717204037.035e2488@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Dennis' Manfreda update Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:45:23 -0400 At 02:01 PM 7/14/2006, you wrote: > >My Manfreda virginica is going to bloom for the first time ever. The > >stalk keeps getting taller each day. It recently surpassed my own > >height, and I'm over 6ft tall! > >Dear Dennis and all; > Our Manfreda is at it's last few blooms. We have three >stalks, the tallest just over 6 ft. They hold up to our weather, but >now as the large seed pods weigh the stems they are beginning to lean. > > I recall some mention of whether they are evergreen or >deciduous last winter. Ours are well protected (ha) by dense >"wildflowers' around the base so they barely show any loss of foliage >in winter. In spring we remove the basal protection (i.e. weed) and >they pop back into to healthy growth very fast. > > So far no pups yet. Best Jim W. Wild! Mine started to set pups last year (which I think was it's 3rd year) and started blooming this year. I have about 8 first year seedlings of locally genetic (Ohio native) Manfredas. I'm hoping to have those bloom by 2008. My one plant blooming now is pretty much in full bloom. The lower flowers are all open. The flower spike continues to grow, and is approaching 7 ft. It will be hard to stake it, since it's growing in a shallow bed on top of concrete. So I hope it stays nice and erect. Yah that was me that questioned about winter deciduousness. I must have been hallucinating because when I returned to the nursery growing them en masse, they had all gone squooshy after the first hard freeze. Yes, squooshy is a technical term. LOL. Dennis in Cincinnati From arnold@nj.rr.com Mon Jul 17 21:10:18 2006 Message-Id: <44BC34F9.30009@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: BX Payment Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 21:10:17 -0400 I received a BX payment for BX #121 for $6.00. It arrived in cash and no return address on the envelope or any other identifying info. The cash was wrapped a red lined steno type pad. Please contact me privately at arnold@nj.rr.com so I can correctly credit your account. Thanks, Arnold PBS Treasurer. From alhouston77009@hotmail.com Tue Jul 18 00:07:50 2006 Message-Id: From: "al houston" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 42, Issue 21 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 04:07:45 +0000 Hi Joe, I hope to make it your talk tomorrow at Mercer. Will you talk about the Arboretums remnant Crinum collection by any chance? I understand it was willed to them, but I may be mistaken about that. Al Howell in sweltering Houston, Texas > 3. Crinum self-promotion (Joe Shaw) >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:32:57 -0500 >From: "Joe Shaw" >Subject: [pbs] Crinum self-promotion >To: >Message-ID: <000b01c6a90e$a5b7cbc0$6501a8c0@Petunia> >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > >Hi Gang, > >If you follow the link below, you can find some photos I put up on the >Texas >Garden Web Forum to advertize a talk on Crinum. The talk will be about >plants that do well along the Gulf Coast. Crinum don't like it here very >much but some do very well. With care some of the other species can be >grown. Dave L. has written a good article in this regard, see the second >link. > >LINK: Crinum Photo Montage >http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/txgard/msg0712405216976.html?2 > > >LINK: Cultivation of African Crinum in Pots and Tubs, Dave L., 1996, >Herbertia, reproduced by permission of the International Bulb Society (an >organization devoted to the enjoyment and cultivation of bulbs). >http://www.crinum.iconx.com/attachments/African-Crinums-in-Pots.pdf > > >A while back someone requested that the talk be video taped. That is not >in >the works, but the PowerPoint presentation can be mailed out to Bulb or >Garden clubs, etc. Just write to me off list and I'll see what can be >arranged. > > > >Cordially, > >Joe >Hot, hot, hot today in Conroe. I'm watering everything and the plants want >more water. > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 4 >Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 16:24:08 -0400 >From: "J.E. Shields" >Subject: [pbs] Hardy Bulbs >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20060716161000.03bf4708@mail.insightbb.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >Hi all, > >The Crinum variabile are in bloom now. This is earlier than usual for >them. Note that these are growing in the ground year-round here. These >are in a raised bed of highly improved topsoil, about 15 feet from the >south end of the big greenhouse. I have never been able to get these to >bloom in containers. Since they seem perfectly hardy in the ground, it is >very convenient to grow them that way, and the bloom like crazy in July or >August. > >Various Crinum grow around the east and south sides of one of the older and >smaller greenhouses. About to bloom again is Crinum 'Catherine', while a >couple of pink 'J.C. Harvey'-like hybrids have been blooming for >weeks. The various C. bulbispermum seem to have bloomed out after only 2 >or 3 scapes apiece. All these are also in the ground. > >Growing right up against the east wall of this same greenhouse, a bunch of >Zantedeschia 'Black Pearl' are in bloom now. Just in front of 'Black >Pearl' is another hardy Gladiolus, probably volunteers of G. imbricatus >from a dumped seed pot. I just collected a few seeds from this glad. > >Galtonia candicans is in bloom now too. Galtonia candicans is also hardy >in the ground here, in selected beds. They don't like low-lying beds or >clay soil! They are doing great in a raised bed made of composted leaves, >topsoil, and coarse brown sand. > >Gladiolus oppositiflorus salmoneus is also hardy here in spots. They have >not bloomed yet this summere. They are growing in the same bed as the >Crinum variabile. Planted among the Galtonia, all the glads >disappeared. I suspect that was due to mice more than to weather. > >Regards, >Jim Shields >in very hot central Indiana (USA) > >************************************************* >Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. >P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ >Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA >Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Jul 18 09:17:05 2006 Message-Id: <000001c6aa6c$7b2fd500$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Manfreda question Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:17:11 -0400 I'm glad to see that Dennis is keeping the Manfreda ball rolling. I have a question for those with more experience with this group. Years ago in a local planting here in the Washington, D.C. area I saw a nice thick clump of what I took to be Manfreda virginica. They were labeled Manfreda virginica. The plants were very robust, bigger than the Manfreda virginica I grow in my garden. From memory I remember the leaves being easily over a foot long and several inches wide. And there was this about the leaves: they had distinctly rippled, wavy margins. I saw the plants in mid-May. Are there especially robust forms of Manfreda virginica with leaves with wavy margins? Or was I seeing one of the TexMex species? Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where we're still in the pressure cooker. From maxwithers@gmail.com Tue Jul 18 14:19:36 2006 Message-Id: <44BD262A.7060706@gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: Seed and Bulb Exchanges, some Comments Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 11:19:22 -0700 There is an interesting article in the new Chron. of Higher Ed. about how the publication of new species leads almost instantly to their extinction (thanks to poachers and the ubiquitous "German and Japanese collectors"): http://chronicle.com/free/v52/i46/46a01201.htm If botanists worked with seed exchanges, they could ameliorate some of the pressure on rare plants. Of course, in the case of extremely scarce plants like Ariocarpus bravoanus, exchanges won't help much. See: http://www.living-rocks.com/bravonthedge.htm Both links from Botany Photo of the Day: http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/potd/2006/07/penstemon_confertus.php > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:44:03 -0400 > From: "Dell Sherk" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Seed and Bulb Exchanges, some Comments > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" > Message-ID: <20060717204342.E8B8A4C00B@lists.ibiblio.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear Diane, > > Yes, I think your comments are right on, as usual. > > Dell > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of Diane Whitehead > Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 2:15 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Seed and Bulb Exchanges, some Comments > > I haven't yet heard some really good reasons why seeds of rare and > endangered species should not be grown by hobbyists. > ====================================================================== > > The seed exchanges I was thinking of when I said that seeds of > endangered plants shouldn't be offered on them are the ones that have > over 5000 seed offerings each year. The seeds go out in order of the > request being received, donors first. There is no guarantee that the > people receiving the seeds will be able to grow them. > > NARGS (North American Rock Garden Society) will not list seed of > endangered plants. I don't know what happens if such seed is > donated. Perhaps it is given to a botanic garden, which is what > happens when CITES listed plants are discovered by Customs inspectors. > > ACGBC (Alpine Garden Club of British Columbia) makes a point of not > publishing names of seeds if they don't have enough to meet expected > demand. If they receive a donation of only a few seeds, they will > give them to someone who has already demonstrated success with > similar seeds. This policy is in place for all seeds, not just > endangered ones. > > The seedlists of specialized societies is the place for seeds of rare > plants. If I had a rare plant, I would first distribute it locally, > since it had already shown it could be grown successfully in my area. > (This would also give me a good chance of getting some back if mine > died.) Later I would send seed of it to a specialist list. Only > after it was well-established would I send seeds to a large general > list. > > From jshaw@opuntiads.com Tue Jul 18 15:34:30 2006 Message-Id: <001b01c6aaa1$32c49b40$6501a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 42, Issue 22 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:34:31 -0500 They [the C. bulbispermum Jumbos] originated from seed from Marcelle Sheppard's 'Jumbo' strain over 5 years ago. All parent plants are vigorous and have wintered over in Zone 5 with light mulch. --------------------- Hi, How nice to hear the winter in Zone 5. Hurray for Jumbos. You can count on the Jumbos to perform well, but they are like a packet of mixed color Zinnia seeds. The interesting thing is that, unlike many hybrid C. bulbiepermum types, they seldom make offsets. So, they are reproduced by seed and they make lots of seed when they are in the mood. Cordially, Joe From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Tue Jul 18 20:28:07 2006 Message-Id: <21489e914ded94166fc1b4375c46e200@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Seed and Bulb Exchanges, some Comments Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:28:04 -0700 Thanks for those references, Max. In the Chronicle of Hi Ed article it mentions the Phragmipedium kovachii slipper orchid of Peru. If you ever get a chance to sit down with Harold Koopowitz, you should have him tell you his first hand version of the story about it. Quite amazing what people will do to get these rare new plants, and so sad what happens to them in their native habitat. I'm still puzzled why much greater efforts aren't made to get seeds or offsets or clones into the hands of as many people as want them in an open and as timely a manner as possible. It seems to me that this would go a huge way towards making the poaching of them much less lucrative to the point even of making it not worth the effort. For example, the article mentions the Wollemi Pine of Australia. While this has taken some time to get out to the public, and personally, I think that even the smallest tree seedlings are so overpriced as to counteract the good effect of getting them out to those who really want one, nevertheless, I think it greatly, greatly, reduced the pressure to pay poachers to get one knowing ahead of time, almost from when they were first discovered that efforts were being made to reproduce them so that anyone who wanted one could have the opportunity to purchase one. And not having to wait decades for it either. I think the same can be said about the new Clivia species C. mirabilis that was recently discovered. Once everyone who really wants knows he or she can easily get one fairly soon after the discovery, without reducing the native population at all, where is the incentive to have massive poaching of wild-collected plants? I think it was a brilliant maneuver in the case of both of these species to announce almost right away the efforts to get these new species out to those collectors who really wanted one. Why they couldn't have done something similar with the cactus species Max mentioned, I'm not really sure. Even for species that have been known for a long time but that are extremely rare, similar efforts can be done. For example, the recent efforts by two men in Australia to sell seeds (last northern winter) and now plants of Worsleya procera to those who desire them all over the world, I think will be an enormous boon to reducing pressure to collect them illegally from the wild. A consignment of 100 Worsleya plants was just shipped to the U.S. this week (and smaller consignments have been sent to a number of other countries/continents). This can't but help in a big way to have the dwindling native population remain more undisturbed. My criticism of the Wollemi Pine prices is that if you way overprice things or otherwise make it very difficult to obtain one, then you hurt your stated effort to reduce the desire to get wild-collected plants. Another example of this is in the realm of animals. I think 20 years ago or so, there was a new breed of cats produced by careful breeding from ten or twelve different lines including some wild cat species to produce a nice house cat that had the same kinds of spotted fur patterns as various leopards and other larger cats. The stated objective was to reduce the desire to have them hunted for their pelts as well as reduce the desire to attempt to raise cubs of the actual large cat species. However, the result of their efforts in my opinion has rendered their stated objective nearly worthless. First, they sold the first number of final litters in the Niemann-Marcus Christmas catalog for a very high price, creating a spectacle but not really doing much about getting these "out there" into the general population that wants them. To this day, the breeding of them is highly controlled and restricted, and even a neutered kitten is IMO hugely expensive. They have managed to produce a variety with a coat that resembles almost exactly that of the snow leopard, which I find particularly striking. But I have no desire to constrain myself to the requirements of owning one, let alone pay the asking price for one. Not that I plan to go on a hunting safari or buy a leopard pelt off the black market any time ever. But it just seems like they're not even trying to accomplish their original stated conservation goal. On the other hand, I'm only human. And I find that I really would love to obtain a number of the Hippeastrum species, for example, that come from the Bolivia/Peru/N. Argentina region of South America. I don't want to get them illegally. I would much much prefer to get seeds or offsets from horticulturally grown plants. But they're not available. Contrast this with efforts such as that of Mauro Peixoto of Brazil who offers seeds from time to time of a number of the Brazilian Hippeastrum species, including the rare more desirable ones. For a mere pittance it seems, I've been able to get my hands on a number of the very desirable Brazilian species without harming any of the wild populations there. I think Osmani is providing a similar service to the native populations of many Chilean geophytes. Anyway, I think I have a good point with some valid examples in this long-winded response of mine. Or am I missing something? --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a On Jul 18, 2006, at 11:19 AM, Max Withers wrote: > There is an interesting article in the new Chron. of Higher Ed. about > how the publication of new species leads almost instantly to their > extinction (thanks to poachers and the ubiquitous "German and Japanese > collectors"): > > http://chronicle.com/free/v52/i46/46a01201.htm > > If botanists worked with seed exchanges, they could ameliorate some of > the pressure on rare plants. Of course, in the case of extremely scarce > plants like Ariocarpus bravoanus, exchanges won't help much. See: > http://www.living-rocks.com/bravonthedge.htm > From msittner@mcn.org Wed Jul 19 10:03:17 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060719064350.01eb2dd0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Blooming now Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:01:07 -0700 Hi, Dennis' recent enthusiasm over his Manfreda was matched by my joy that Calochortus weedii is blooming again for me. It was three years after I purchased it before it bloomed for the first time in July 2003 and when I dumped the pot there was only one bulb left and it looked very sickly so when it didn't bloom in 2004 or 2005 I was sure I had lost it. I had repotted it in a large pot with a couple other Calochortus that were not blooming and have kept it sheltered from our heavy rainfall. One of the bulbs in that pot had buds on it now after all the other Calochortus have gone dormant and I've been watching it wondering which one it was going to be. It's just so gorgeous. I've added a current picture to the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Calochortus#weedii I always thought Chlorogalum pomeridianum was pollinated by moths as it is a white and night blooming, but when we have admired its lovely fairy blooms when it has opened early evening lately it has been covered with bees. No wonder it sets so much seed. I love these plants, but have been careless with its seeding about so now I have a few more than I may be happy with although it is quite charming when all those beautiful delicate flowers finally open. Last night as we had all the windows and doors open in our house trying to cool it down when the temperatures got cooler (we don't have air conditioning) we could detect a lovely fragrance coming from the garden. My husband wondered if it could be the Lilium now in bloom I grew from seeds Sir Peter Smithers gave me. I got the flashlight out and took a tour through the garden and instead decided it was the late blooming Gladiolus tristis that has dark markings on the petals. Not only is this plant not fragrant during the day, but the flowers aren't open very wide then either. To look at it you think it needs water. But when night comes the flowers open and it becomes very fragrant. Mary Sue From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed Jul 19 11:30:55 2006 Message-Id: <000001c6ab48$525476e0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Blooming now Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:30:52 -0400 Mary Sue, in reporting her joy over the re-blooming of Calochortus weedii (ant that's a stunningly beautiful species, Mary Sue) has touched on something to which all of us as gardeners can relate. When we buy a bulb and it goes on to bloom, that's nice. But when we grow one from seed and it blooms, that engenders a completely different level of satisfaction. And when we buy a bulb, watch it go into decline, but then eventually reverse itself and bloom - well, that too provides a very special sense of satisfaction. I had that experience this year when a plant of the xiphium hybrid iris 'Bronze Beauty' bloomed. This is a readily available plant, and inexpensive, too. But these so-called Dutch iris are never common in our gardens here in the middle Atlantic states. They must be planted by the hundreds of thousands each year, but they have never become common garden plants. And it's not hard to point to a probable reason: they need hot, dry summers. The heat we can provide in spades, but dry summers are not our style. Dutch iris left in the ground year after year tend to "disappear". In my experience, those which don't disappear and show up again typically don't bloom. In an effort to test the "they need dry hot summers" hypothesis, several years ago I planted a dozen bulbs of 'Bronze Beauty' in a raised bed. The following spring I got a nasty surprise: only one or two of them had survived the winter. Winter hardiness of bulbs planted in the ground has never been an issue here. But plants of any kind in raised beds are often a gamble here during the winter. For instance, very few of a handful of Crocus korolkowii survived that same winter in that same bed. Since so few of them survived the winter, and those which did did not go on to bloom, I more or less forgot about those iris. This raised bed is covered from late May until September. During the summer, because the glass is only six or so inches above the soil, it gets hot under the glass, sometimes hot enough to kill the weeds. Now fast forward a few years. After not having seen any trace of the iris for several years, I spotted a bit of distinct color in that bed this year. There was a plant of Iris 'Bronze Beauty' in full bloom! That plant of 'Bronze Beauty' is mine as no newly purchased bulb will ever be. I earned it. There is every reason to think that it's now here to stay, or at least as much so as anything else in the garden. I've learned how to grow it, and in the garden of life knowledge is the most beautiful bloom of all! Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where it cooled off last night enough to prompt us to turn off the air conditioning and open the windows - and let in the scent of the lilies. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Jul 19 13:50:01 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20060719104542.00c0d848@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Dutch irises (was Blooming now) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:50:55 -0700 Jim McKenney wrote about how a Dutch xiphium Iris hybrid responded to a hot, dry summer in his garden. I think Jim's right about the preferences of these irises, but I also think that the different ones commercially available have different levels of winter hardiness (they are winter-growing and spring-blooming). The one he described, 'Bronze Beauty', is the best performer of the half dozen or so varieties I've tried, here where winters are colder than Xiphium species generally experience in the wild. Mine don't get a completely dry summer (I occasionally water the bed where they grow) but it is very well drained and has a full south exposure. I also grow several wild species in this section in the bulb frame, and was pleased that Iris xiphium itself flowered this spring (after being subjected to a colder than normal winter, too). In general the species are more slender and delicate in appearance than the hybrids, with less substantial flowers. On a side note to Mary Sue's post that began this discussion, Gladiolus tristis is indeed night-fragrant, and I think I wrote in the past that the flowers, when cut and brought into the house, retain this pattern of releasing their fragrance at night, even in a room with little daylight -- a truly mysterious process. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From robertwerra@pacific.net Wed Jul 19 14:08:53 2006 Message-Id: <001601c6ab5e$5f4e2470$e8f20c45@popbob> From: robertwerra@pacific.net Subject: Blooming now Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:08:43 -0700 To All; Ammocharis coranica is just beginning to bloom for the first time. We got the bulb 3-4 years ago, put it in a pot, ignored and forgot about it. In our winter rainfall (35 in.) inland, hot, No. Calif. location, we treated it like a winter grower-- no summer water. Despite this, it survived and this year it was accidently placed in a location where I watered regularly this summer and lo and behold it's large pink buds are progressively opening to form a large pink softball. We are pleased. Bob Werra From dells@voicenet.com Wed Jul 19 14:30:46 2006 Message-Id: <20060719183045.E48624C00B@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Oregon climates Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:31:12 -0400 Dear Jane and Joyce and others who live in Oregon, I recently visited relatives in Tigard, OR (SW of Portland) and traveled to the vicinity of Mt Hood, the fruit growing region on the northeast of the mountain. I know that in CA, the climate/zone/temps and rainfall can vary dramatically from east to west. My relatives told me that in Tigard, there is very little snow and temps rarely get lower than 25F. Is this also true of Gresham, Estacada, and other towns east of Portland? Dell From faeden4444@sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 19 14:42:05 2006 Message-Id: <20060719184204.72381.qmail@web82214.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Marilyn Pekasky Subject: Oregon climates Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:42:04 -0700 (PDT) I'm a native Oregonian, and I can attest that the weather on the east side of the Willamette River near the Columbia River is much different than that on the southwest side of the river. That's partially determined by the Columbia River and Gorge, which brings Arctic-type temperatures west and somewhat south. When it's 25 in Tigard with no snow, it will probably be 10 or below in the areas you mentioned with a foot or more of snow. Tigard, Tualatin, Lake Oswego, etc. are a little protected because the winds from the Gorge don't usually travel that far southwest. I had 6 feet of snowdrifts in my yard in S.W. Portland in 1968-69, and the road and driveway had 3 feet, but that wasn't common. Dell Sherk wrote: Dear Jane and Joyce and others who live in Oregon, I recently visited relatives in Tigard, OR (SW of Portland) and traveled to the vicinity of Mt Hood, the fruit growing region on the northeast of the mountain. I know that in CA, the climate/zone/temps and rainfall can vary dramatically from east to west. My relatives told me that in Tigard, there is very little snow and temps rarely get lower than 25F. Is this also true of Gresham, Estacada, and other towns east of Portland? Dell _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Jul 19 14:58:03 2006 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Lycoris season Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:54:10 -0500 Dear all - As an admitted Lycori-phile, I am always glad to announce the start of the season. My first species . L. sanguinea kiusiana has already come and gone with a very short bloom season in our extended heat and drought. This is one of the smaller species and each stem rarely has more than 4 blooms per stem, but the pale orange- tangerine flower color is a treat. Regardless of speculation, there did not seem to be any flowering 'cue' provided by a major change in temperature or rainfall. They just bloomed. Next... Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From gardenersview@earthlink.net Wed Jul 19 15:17:21 2006 Message-Id: <13157664.1153336641474.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Terry Hernstrom Subject: Lycoris season Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:17:21 -0700 (GMT-07:00) My large population of Lycoris radiata, bloom around Labor Day no matter what the weather cycles are. The curious thing is I can never get them to bloom in pots! Terence Hernstrom Kimberly Crest House & Gardens Redlands, CA (Where it has been over a 100 degrees everyday for weeks and the garden still looks decent!) -----Original Message----- >From: James Waddick >Sent: Jul 19, 2006 11:54 AM >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: [pbs] Lycoris season > >Dear all - > As an admitted Lycori-phile, I am always glad to announce the >start of the season. My first species . L. sanguinea kiusiana has >already come and gone with a very short bloom season in our extended >heat and drought. This is one of the smaller species and each stem >rarely has more than 4 blooms per stem, but the pale orange- >tangerine flower color is a treat. > > Regardless of speculation, there did not seem to be any >flowering 'cue' provided by a major change in temperature or >rainfall. They just bloomed. > > Next... Jim W. >-- >Dr. James W. Waddick >8871 NW Brostrom Rd. >Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 >USA >Ph. 816-746-1949 >Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From merrill@gamblegarden.org Wed Jul 19 17:26:45 2006 Message-Id: <20060719212635.2DCF04C00B@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Merrill Jensen" Subject: Oregon climates Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:26:26 -0700 The winds that come shrieking down the Gorge in winter can be brutal. What happens is cold arctic air builds out in the Columbia basin. The colder, denser air follows the terrain and gets funneled down the Columbia River with tree shredding speed. The east side of Portland can have horrible ice storms while the rest of the Portland metro area just has rain. I've driven into areas that were coated with more than .5" of ice with power lines and tree limbs down all over. The rest of the year, the northern Willamette Valley climate doesn't vary to degree that it does in certain areas of California, such as the Bay Area. I live twenty miles north of Palo Alto and there can be a twenty degree difference on a summer afternoon. Merrill Jensen, former Oregon resident that is hoping to head back north in the near future; roasting in Palo Alto where the first Cyclamen hederifolium started blooming yesterday. That's partially determined by the Columbia River and Gorge, which brings Arctic-type temperatures west and somewhat south. When it's 25 in Tigard with no snow, it will probably be 10 or below in the areas you mentioned with a foot or more of snow. I recently visited relatives in Tigard, OR (SW of Portland) and traveled to the vicinity of Mt Hood, the fruit growing region on the northeast of the mountain. I know that in CA, the climate/zone/temps and rainfall can vary dramatically from east to west. My relatives told me that in Tigard, there is very little snow and temps rarely get lower than 25F. Is this also true of Gresham, Estacada, and other towns east of Portland? Dell _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From faeden4444@sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 19 18:24:47 2006 Message-Id: <20060719222446.84119.qmail@web82211.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Marilyn Pekasky Subject: Oregon climates Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Merrill, how could I have forgotten about the ice storms? And that half inch of or more of ice covers EVERYTHING and is just like soapy glass!! Aaarrgghh!!! Merrill Jensen wrote: The winds that come shrieking down the Gorge in winter can be brutal. What happens is cold arctic air builds out in the Columbia basin. The colder, denser air follows the terrain and gets funneled down the Columbia River with tree shredding speed. The east side of Portland can have horrible ice storms while the rest of the Portland metro area just has rain. I've driven into areas that were coated with more than .5" of ice with power lines and tree limbs down all over. The rest of the year, the northern Willamette Valley climate doesn't vary to degree that it does in certain areas of California, such as the Bay Area. I live twenty miles north of Palo Alto and there can be a twenty degree difference on a summer afternoon. Merrill Jensen, former Oregon resident that is hoping to head back north in the near future; roasting in Palo Alto where the first Cyclamen hederifolium started blooming yesterday. That's partially determined by the Columbia River and Gorge, which brings Arctic-type temperatures west and somewhat south. When it's 25 in Tigard with no snow, it will probably be 10 or below in the areas you mentioned with a foot or more of snow. I recently visited relatives in Tigard, OR (SW of Portland) and traveled to the vicinity of Mt Hood, the fruit growing region on the northeast of the mountain. I know that in CA, the climate/zone/temps and rainfall can vary dramatically from east to west. My relatives told me that in Tigard, there is very little snow and temps rarely get lower than 25F. Is this also true of Gresham, Estacada, and other towns east of Portland? Dell _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Jul 19 21:45:49 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20060719183822.00be78d0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Oregon climates Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 18:45:04 -0700 Dell asked, At 02:31 PM 7/19/2006 -0400, you wrote: >Dear Jane and Joyce and others who live in Oregon, > >I recently visited relatives in Tigard, OR (SW of Portland) and traveled to >the vicinity of Mt Hood, the fruit growing region on the northeast of the >mountain. I know that in CA, the climate/zone/temps and rainfall can vary >dramatically from east to west. My relatives told me that in Tigard, there >is very little snow and temps rarely get lower than 25F. Is this also true >of Gresham, Estacada, and other towns east of Portland? No, it is not. Towns east of Portland, especially Gresham, Sandy, and Troutdale, are subject to continental east winds through the Columbia Gorge, which can drop the temperature drastically in winter and raise it in summer. The Estacada area, where I live, experiences somewhat less severe east winds through the Clackamas River gap in the Cascades. Tigard is nearly at sea level (I think about 40 feet elevation) in the flat Willamette Valley, whereas my land is at 1600 feet in the Cascade foothills (southwwest of Mt. Hood) and is usually 5 to 10 degrees F colder than the Portland airport, which is in turn somewhat colder than it would be in Tigard, West Linn, Lake Oswego, and some of the other suburbs southwest of the Portland city center. However, these western suburbs can experience colder temperatures when an inversion layer associated with the Coast Range lies above them. Snowfall in the Portland area occurs quite variably and is much more common above 1000 feet elevation -- such as on the high ridges west of the city center, or in areas to the east such as where I live. Such microclimatic variation is typical of parts of the western USA near high mountains and major rivers. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From susanann@sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 19 23:52:29 2006 Message-Id: From: Susan Hayek Subject: from Diana Chapman Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:52:19 -0700 Diana is in the process of moving offices and has had some problems with her dsl/cable company. Her email address is bouncing. You can reach her through the www.telosrarebulbs.com address. She should have problems worked out in a week to 10 days. Thanks. s. -- susan hayek, North Coast of CA, USA, zone 9b, Sunset zone 17. 15 miles south of Eureka, CA, overlooking the Eel River, with a peek of the ocean. From ashley.cooper@new.co.za Thu Jul 20 19:33:50 2006 Message-Id: <041301c6ac54$ecdd8a50$b670ef9b@mykecbcb148b69> From: "Myke Ashley-Cooper" Subject: Box 121 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 01:33:32 +0200 Can you please check to see what credit I still have please Arnold. I owe $20 for the latest batch. Also, I have misplaced the little slip with your address on it. Regards Myke From arnold@nj.rr.com Thu Jul 20 20:48:31 2006 Message-Id: <44C0245E.5020506@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Box 121 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 20:48:30 -0400 Myke: I have you owing $6.00 for BX 113 and Dell hasn't sent me the recent BX spread sheet. Address is: Arnold Trachtenberg 140 Lakeview Avenue Leonia, NJ 07605 It may be better to wait for the other charges to get to me and you can send it all at once. I'll forward you the numbers once I get them. Regards, Arnold From paph2@earthlink.net Thu Jul 20 20:58:28 2006 Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.2.20060720175801.02b72d70@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Box 121 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 17:58:25 -0700 Was this supposed to come to me? Harold At 05:48 PM 7/20/2006, you wrote: >Myke: > >I have you owing $6.00 for BX 113 and Dell hasn't sent me the recent BX >spread sheet. > >Address is: > Arnold Trachtenberg >140 Lakeview Avenue >Leonia, NJ 07605 > >It may be better to wait for the other charges to get to me and you can >send it all at once. > >I'll forward you the numbers once I get them. > >Regards, > >Arnold >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Jul 20 20:58:50 2006 Message-Id: <000001c6ac60$d384ee20$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Spanish iris Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 20:58:48 -0400 I happened to be checking the wiki page for iris recently, and I noticed something which raises a question or two for me. The irises include a category called "Spanish irises". Curious to see what this might include, I followed the link and saw that it included bulbous irises with Iris xiphium, I. latifolia and related species in their ancestry. To use wiki parlance, it's time for some disambiguation. Historically, the term "Spanish iris" referred to those garden plants derived from Iris xiphium. This term "Spanish iris" still appears in catalogs, although I frankly wonder if true Spanish iris still exist as commercial entitles. One mass distribution catalog which offered "Spanish irises" for years used an illustration of Iris korolkowii to depict the "Spanish irises". I often wondered what people who ordered those got: did they get Iris korolkowii (given the price, I doubt it) or did they get true Spanish irises? Spanish irises and Dutch irises are not the same. I would not rule out the possibility that the true Spanish irises might not simply be cultivars of Iris xiphium (i.e. they might have some other related species in their background, species other than I. latifolia). And as a horticultural group, they and the Dutch irises are distinct: in particular, according to the older books the Spanish irises bloom later than the Dutch irises and are smaller and more delicate. I've never seen a Spanish iris. Does anyone know if true Spanish irises are still in commerce? I know that the name still appears in catalogs, but has anyone actually received true Spanish irises from a commercial source in recent years? Jane Mc Gary mentioned in a recent post that she grows Iris xiphium itself. My question is: does anyone still grow the Iris xiphium cultivars of garden origin? The last time I ordered Spanish irises I received English irises, Iris latifolia, (the plant long known as Iris xiphioides). Instead of the small bulbs of Spanish irises, I got these huge English iris bulbs. No one, to my knowledge, has successfully grown English irises here in the middle Atlantic states. Now back to what started this for me: what would be a suitable name for irises of this group? If we call them "Spanish irises", that term will lose its historical significance. And some are Portuguese rather than Spanish. "Iberian irises" does not quite work: some members of the group are north African. They are bulbous, but so too are the reticulates and junos, so "bulbous irises" is not sufficiently specific. Any thoughts? Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where I'm sorting bulbs dug for the summer. From msittner@mcn.org Thu Jul 20 21:34:56 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060720182130.02092e80@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Spanish iris Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:34:37 -0700 Hi Jim, When we started dividing up the Irises on the Iris page I was at a loss as how to do it. I did ask for help and got a few responses about how to name some of the pages, but nothing about the plants you are mentioning. And we chose not to use the botanical classification names on naming the pages since we are trying to be more user friendly even though those name are included in the text for the subpages. Since we are crossing all of the species and cultivars to the main page, it will be easy to find information about any specific species. I finally decided to use the name I found in my reference books which is never the best way. I'd much prefer to have the Iris experts on this list tell me what it should be. I am very happy to change the name of the page if someone comes up with a better name. So far there are few pictures on that page. And as an approved wiki user you could create a new page for me and add text and change the references to whatever you name the new page as well. Every Iris page links to all the other pages so all the links will need to be changed too on all those pages. It took Susan and me months of work to do the Iris pages and at the moment I don't have time to change everything again myself. I would then take off the Spanish Irises page once you were finished. Since I have made pages for the other bulbous irises they really need a place of their own I think. So I will follow the suggestions you get from the group with interest. Mary Sue >Now back to what started this for me: what would be a suitable name for >irises of this group? If we call them "Spanish irises", that term will lose >its historical significance. ... They are bulbous, but so too are the >reticulates and junos, so >"bulbous irises" is not sufficiently specific. From doji@hawaii.rr.com Thu Jul 20 23:54:47 2006 Message-Id: <001801c6ac79$5c86db80$370ffea9@Gary> From: "Gary" Subject: Bees and flowers decline in step Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 17:54:26 -1000 This from today's BBC UK Science News. Why some of the rare become even rarer. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5201218.stm Gary in Hilo, HI From eagle85@flash.net Fri Jul 21 00:08:35 2006 Message-Id: <42A195CA-186D-11DB-8365-00050277B6E6@flash.net> From: Doug Westfall Subject: Sprekelia howardii Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 20:59:08 -0700 So now I have seeds from my Sprekelia howardii. I certainly would like to have some success in germinating some (all) of them. I have had success with Hippeastrum intiflorum, so I will try some of the seeds with the "float" method. Has anyone out there ever had success with these? Doug Westfall From ron_redding@hotmail.com Fri Jul 21 05:00:15 2006 Message-Id: From: "Ronald Redding" Subject: Sprekelia howardii Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 19:00:11 +1000 Doug, Well done, I remember when you were asking the group about pollination I can not believe you have seeds already or time really is going by faster and faster. I hope you are happy with your germination rates which ever method you use. I am not really a person to help somebody with as much experience as you however I like to float seeds for a couple of days if their physical characteristics allow it and then place them in seed raising mix even if they show no radicles. I have been successful with this method on hippeastrum, worsleya, pamianthe, pancratium and phaedranessa to name a few, I am always amazed how similair some of these seed appear. I have never germinated or seen a Sprekelia howardii however with everyone's successes the rest of us are one step closer to be able to one day include them in our collections. One other thing, I did not look up the spelling of any of the above and I hope they are all correct. It has made me realise how devoted I have become to learning as much as possible about my "hobby". Maybe one day the internet will become so advanced that we all might be able to have conversations, then I might be able to learn how to pronounce them like I have learnt to spell? Kind Regards and Best Wishes Ron Redding Hervey Bay Australia _________________________________________________________________ Read, write and reply to Hotmail on your mobile. Find out more. http://mobilecentral.ninemsn.com.au/mcmobileHotmail/home.aspx From hilary@ingascony.com Fri Jul 21 05:23:44 2006 Message-Id: <007101c6aca8$3c49f1c0$0400a8c0@shimmer> From: "Hilary Nightingale" Subject: Bees and flowers decline in step Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:29:58 +0200 Thanks for the link Gary. That's really interesting. I have certainly noticed poorer than expected germination and fruit setting in certain plants since starting a vegetable garden here in SW France. We seem to have many different types of bees, but not necessarily the right species in the right quantiies to coincide with flowering. I am intending to start some honey bee hives next spring to ease the problem, but will also look into how I can encourage the wild species that are here. Hilary from hot and sunny Gascony, SW France ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary" To: "PBS" Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 5:54 AM Subject: [pbs] Bees and flowers decline in step > This from today's BBC UK Science News. Why some of the rare become even rarer. > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5201218.stm > > Gary in Hilo, HI > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From ashley.cooper@new.co.za Fri Jul 21 14:47:54 2006 Message-Id: <00b901c6acf6$24cc2a10$8070ef9b@mykecbcb148b69> From: "Myke Ashley-Cooper" Subject: Box 121 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:07:30 +0200 Nope - accidents all round. Sorry! ----- Original Message ----- From: Harold Koopowitz To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 2:58 AM Subject: [spam] Re: [pbs] Box 121 Was this supposed to come to me? Harold At 05:48 PM 7/20/2006, you wrote: >Myke: > >I have you owing $6.00 for BX 113 and Dell hasn't sent me the recent BX >spread sheet. > >Address is: > Arnold Trachtenberg >140 Lakeview Avenue >Leonia, NJ 07605 > >It may be better to wait for the other charges to get to me and you can >send it all at once. > >I'll forward you the numbers once I get them. > >Regards, > >Arnold >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Fri Jul 21 12:59:03 2006 Message-Id: <7cfe3f52f32dba5668d01179e7112fa7@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: USDA Patents Microbes to Fight Wheat Fungus Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:59:01 -0700 This is slightly off-topic, but I thought you had to breed a new or different kind of strain of a plant or propagate a particular clone in order to patent it. I didn't think you could just discover a new species and patent it outright. Since the article below is referring to fungi and bacteria, neither of which are plants, are the rules different? And furthermore, what about animals, including mammals? If you develop a new breed of cat or dog, can you patent it these days? Or that new species of rodent they discovered in Southeast Asia not too long ago: Can the entire species be patented by its discoverers? It seems weird to find a fungus that naturally secretes an antibiotic that kills some disease (rather than being genetically modified to do so), and then patent it without you having "invented" or developed it in any way. All you did was find it. I guess not being a lawyer, I just don't understand what the original intent of granting patents really is. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a ====================== http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2006/060717.htm USDA Patents Microbes to Fight Wheat Fungus By Jan Suszkiw July 17, 2006 Four yeasts and three bacteria that live on flowering wheat heads, but cause no harm there, have been patented by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) as biological control agents in the fight against Fusarium head blight (FHB). Caused by the fungus Fusarium graminearum, FHB is among the most costly diseases of cereal crops worldwide, including wheat, barley and oats. From 1998 to 2000, FHB epidemics in U.S. small grains inflicted an estimated $2.7 billion worth of losses, notes David Schisler. He is a plant pathologist with the Agricultural Research Service (ARS), USDA's chief scientific research agency. The fungus infects wheat through its flower tissues, including anthers. But competition for space and nutrients there is fierce, according to studies by Schisler and colleagues at the ARS National Center for Agricultural Utilization Research in Peoria, Ill., and at Ohio State University (OSU) in Columbus. Indeed, some of the bacteria and yeasts that the researchers isolated from wheat anthers secrete antibiotics, or use other means, to keep the fungus at bay--to the wheat plant's benefit. To exploit this "natural antagonism," Schisler and OSU colleagues Michael Boehm and Naseem Khan devised fermentation procedures to culture quantities of the beneficial microbes for application to flowering wheat heads. The four yeasts and three bacteria that have been patented (U.S. No. 7,001,755) were the "top picks" from about 700 microbial specimens the scientists evaluated for their fungus-fighting prowess. Of these seven, yeast strain OH 182.9 performed the best in field trials, reducing FHB's severity in spring, winter and durum wheats by 20 to 60 percent. USDA's patenting of this approach to controlling FHB is a critical first step towards garnering the commercial interest necessary to develop the microbes as registered biological control products that can be used separately or in specific combinations on wheat or other cereal crops. Their development, along with more FHB-resistant wheat varieties, is especially appealing because the use of foliar fungicides is complicated by timing and availability by state. From rafadiezdom@eresmas.net Sat Jul 22 12:52:29 2006 Message-Id: From: =?us-ascii?Q?Rafa_Diez_Dominguez?= Subject: Spanish iris etc Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 19:00:22 +0200 Hello, Mary Sue, I'am waiting for Celestino's answer about colaborate, I think that he will be glad in donate his photos. Let me please to do a little web guide of the section Xiphium in Spain. Here you can find Iris latifolia and three forms of Iris xiphium, plae blue and blue clare (var. Taitti) and blue clare, that is more common, and the endemic var. lusitanica. http://micologia.net/g2/flora-I Here you can see the endangered Iris boissieri, endemic from nothd of Portugal and Galicia (Spain) www.mma.es/conserv_nat/inventarios/inv_biodiversidad/html/flora_vascular/pdf /704.pdf Here you can see Iris filifolia from my friend Jose Rodriguez http://www.treknature.com/gallery/Europe/Spain/photo49457.htm In this page I colavorate with the author to ID the iris picutre. It is an Iris serotina http://personales.ya.com/mojavis/silvestronas/index.html Here you can Iris juncea http://www.fotonatura.org///galerias/foto.php?id_foto=111740&id_galeria=0&PH PSESSID=ad6f8ff518f74e6ec001791d48740360 And finally Iris tingitana http://homepage.mac.com/jmdelacre/PhotoAlbum33.html All the Xiphums are tender (no more below 0o) except I. xiphium (except var. battandieri and lusitanica) and I. serotina. Finally I would like to add that I. xiphium and I. latifolia, in particular might be white due to a chromosimic failure. Regards -----Mensaje original----- De: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]En nombre de Jim McKenney Enviado el: sabado, 22 de julio de 2006 17:30 Para: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Asunto: Re: [pbs] Spanish iris etc Thanks to Mary Sue and Rafa Diez for keeping the ball rolling on these issues. I can't wait to see the images of the wild irises. But no, the text as written does not address my concerns. The term Spanish iris historically has been used (commonly since at least the nineteenth century) to refer not to any wild iris but to those garden irises derived primarily (most accounts imply exclusively) from Iris xiphium. In a sense, it was the development of the so-called Dutch irises in the very late nineteenth century or early twentieth century (I don't know precisely when, but the hybrids were well known by the end of the first decade of the twentieth century) which reinforced the significance of the distinction to be maintained between the old Spanish iris group of garden origin and the then new Dutch irises. These old Spanish irises of garden origin have been grown since at least the late sixteenth century, the reign of Elizabeth I of England and the time of Shakespeare. Because Iris xiphium itself is native from northwestern Africa to Portugal and Spain and southern France, it's a variable plant. It's worth noting that Grey in his Hardy Bulbs gives the parentage of the Dutch irises as Iris xiphium and "an earlier-flowering stronger growing form, found in the neighborhood of Gibraltar" - in other words, another form of Iris xiphium; if this is true, then at least some of these early Dutch irises were not (nominally at least) inter-specific hybrids at all. On the other hand, there seems to be no doubt that some, perhaps most, of the plants which emerged as Dutch iris later are truly of inter-specific hybrid origin. We still need a name for the group as a whole. To reiterate, "Spanish irises" is not suitable because that term has a long history of use in reference to a particular group of garden irises. This larger group in question includes not only these old garden irises, but also their wild progenitors and related species, most of which related species presumably did not play a role in the development of the garden Spanish irises. An old group name is available: Xiphion. But that term invites confusion with "xiphium". How about "Xiphions: the western Mediterranean bulbous irises"? Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where I'm still sharpening my xiphion on these issues. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Mary Sue Ittner Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 10:24 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Spanish iris etc List member Rafa Diez from Spain has kindly written me with information for the wiki Spanish Iris page so I have added it. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SpanishIrises Will this address your concerns Jim (McKenney) so I won't have to rename the page and change the links? Rafa also sent some pictures from a friend illustrating some of these species so if we get permission to add them to the wiki, when Susan has time, she will downsize them and add them. Thanks Rafa for your help. Mary Sue _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From rafadiezdom@eresmas.net Sat Jul 22 12:58:05 2006 Message-Id: From: =?us-ascii?Q?Rafa_Diez_Dominguez?= Subject: Spanish iris etc Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 19:05:59 +0200 Excuse me, The link of Iris boissieri is broken, here another photo http://www.programanthos.org/imagenesplantas/Iris_boissieri_EV7_39_COL.jpg Regards From jshields@indy.net Fri Jul 21 13:16:41 2006 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20060721131122.01b79ae0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: USDA Patents Microbes to Fight Wheat Fungus Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 13:16:56 -0400 Lee, I'm not a lawyer either, but worked with the firm's patent attorneys while I was active in research. So this is sort of my impression of where things were about 10 years ago, kind of. In the U.S., you can patent genes, and genetically modified organisms, like "knock-out mice" for instance. You can patent natural products if you are the first to discover or identify them. In plants, I think (?) you can patent selected clones and seed strains. So selecting for a strain of bacteria or fungus that produces a useful product or effect is not much more far-fetched. I think the E.U. is much less inclined to allow patents on modified animals, at least. Jim Shields biochemist retired from the pharmaceutical industry At 09:59 AM 7/21/2006 -0700, you wrote: >This is slightly off-topic, but I thought you had to breed a new or >different kind of strain of a plant or propagate a particular clone in >order to patent it. I didn't think you could just discover a new >species and patent it outright. Since the article below is referring to >fungi and bacteria, neither of which are plants, are the rules >different? And furthermore, what about animals, including mammals? If >you develop a new breed of cat or dog, can you patent it these days? Or >that new species of rodent they discovered in Southeast Asia not too >long ago: Can the entire species be patented by its discoverers? It >seems weird to find a fungus that naturally secretes an antibiotic that >kills some disease (rather than being genetically modified to do so), >and then patent it without you having "invented" or developed it in any >way. All you did was find it. > >I guess not being a lawyer, I just don't understand what the original >intent of granting patents really is. > >--Lee Poulsen >Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a > >====================== > >http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2006/060717.htm >USDA Patents Microbes to Fight Wheat Fungus > >By Jan Suszkiw >July 17, 2006 >Four yeasts and three bacteria that live on flowering wheat heads, but >cause no harm there, have been patented by the U.S. Department of >Agriculture (USDA) as biological control agents in the fight against >Fusarium head blight (FHB). > >Caused by the fungus Fusarium graminearum, FHB is among the most costly >diseases of cereal crops worldwide, including wheat, barley and oats. > From 1998 to 2000, FHB epidemics in U.S. small grains inflicted an >estimated $2.7 billion worth of losses, notes David Schisler. He is a >plant pathologist with the Agricultural Research Service (ARS), USDA's >chief scientific research agency. > >The fungus infects wheat through its flower tissues, including anthers. >But competition for space and nutrients there is fierce, according to >studies by Schisler and colleagues at the ARS National Center for >Agricultural Utilization Research in Peoria, Ill., and at Ohio State >University (OSU) in Columbus. Indeed, some of the bacteria and yeasts >that the researchers isolated from wheat anthers secrete antibiotics, >or use other means, to keep the fungus at bay--to the wheat plant's >benefit. > >To exploit this "natural antagonism," Schisler and OSU colleagues >Michael Boehm and Naseem Khan devised fermentation procedures to >culture quantities of the beneficial microbes for application to >flowering wheat heads. The four yeasts and three bacteria that have >been patented (U.S. No. 7,001,755) were the "top picks" from about 700 >microbial specimens the scientists evaluated for their fungus-fighting >prowess. Of these seven, yeast strain OH 182.9 performed the best in >field trials, reducing FHB's severity in spring, winter and durum >wheats by 20 to 60 percent. > >USDA's patenting of this approach to controlling FHB is a critical >first step towards garnering the commercial interest necessary to >develop the microbes as registered biological control products that can >be used separately or in specific combinations on wheat or other cereal >crops. Their development, along with more FHB-resistant wheat >varieties, is especially appealing because the use of foliar fungicides >is complicated by timing and availability by state. > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Jul 21 16:39:13 2006 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Spanish iris etc Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:18:50 -0500 Dear Jim et al; Traditionally Spanish Iris have been selections of I. xiphium PERIOD. Likewise, English iris are selections of I. latifolia PERIOD But, both of these and other related species* have contributed to the complex of Dutch Iris Theoretically there can be NO hybrid English or Spanish Iris, by definition these would be Dutch Iris (all hybrids). Coincidentally I just received a new highly detail list of Iris cv still in draft form, that shows over 40 named Spanish Iris cvs. I know some time ago I have seen some of these offered. The Dutch bulb wholesale Dix Export is currently offering the named I xiphium 'Lusitanica', 4 named I. latifolia' and a host of Dutch hybrids. Of course the geographical names of the Cultivar Groups has almost no relationship with their origins. And what you order and what you get are two very distinct things. I think you'd have better luck dealing directly with a high quality English Bulb Dealer such as Pottertons or similar. Mayube other members can make a suggestion. Of course you need the right climate too and we discussed the difficulties of long term success with Dutch iris in the last year or so. Few people succeed. Good luck. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From TalkingPoints@PlantSoup.Com Fri Jul 21 17:51:09 2006 Message-Id: From: N Sterman Subject: When to plant eucomis Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:51:08 -0700 What are the best months to plant Eucomis in California gardens? Thanks! Nan Sterman Plant Soup, Inc. TM TalkingPoints@PlantSoup.Com PO Box 231034 Encinitas, CA 92023 From jshaw@opuntiads.com Fri Jul 21 19:08:40 2006 Message-Id: <007f01c6ad1a$9b40ada0$6501a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: Is that thing an epicotyl? Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:08:38 -0500 Hi Gang, I do have a question, this note is not all self-promotion (by the way, this message was cross-posted at the IBS). I had a good time giving the Crinum lecture at Mercer Arboretum in Houston, TX. Afterwards, the Mercer staff got a golf cart and took me (and another PBS member or three) down to the Mercer Crinum Garden. Mercer Arboretum has many Crinum hybrids, most of them apparently provided over the past 20 years by Marcelle Sheppard. The plants are happy and healthy in appearance, but are clearly awaiting a remake of the water-area garden. After the remake they will surely get a bit more light and a bit more fertilizer and irrigation; perhaps they will boom more heavily. No matter the current conditions, the plants are in good shape and correctly labeled. The C. asiaticum-types seem to be especially happy and produce seedlings with abandon. Anyway, I was happy to find that 2 PBS members attended my talk, maybe more were in attendance but did not seek to announce themselves. At least 1 IBS member attended too. I was happy to connect with them. The PowerPoint presentation is online at http://www.opuntiads.com/mercers/Mercer.ppt . I hope bulb clubs and societies can use it. Of course, resale of images is not permitted but educational use is encouraged (non-profit use is allowed). QUESTION: I am still unsure about the anatomy/morphology of Crinum seeds as they germinate. They send out an extension, from which the shoot and root develop. What is the name of that initial extension/growth? I've been calling it an "epicotyl" but I'm not sure that is the correct term. Cordially, Joe Conroe, TX Temperatures were easily 95 F today (35 C), and may have been 100 F (39 C). From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Jul 21 21:54:15 2006 Message-Id: <000101c6ad31$bbb8c8d0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Is that thing an epicotyl? No, it's not. Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 21:54:13 -0400 Joe, I haven't seen a germinating Crinum seed in years, but as I recall the ones I've seen germinate like Hymenocallis liriosme. Here's how I interpret it: I think what you are seeing is a combination of the cotyledon and the hypocotyl. Being a monocot, Crinum has only one cotyledon, and it typically remains attached to the seed and may not appear above ground. There is a point along that cotyledon-hypocotyl axis where this axis thickens and the incipient bulb begins to differentiate; the first true leaf will emerge from this area; that's the epicotyl. Anything distal along that axis is hypocotyl. Jim McKenney From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Jul 21 22:32:54 2006 Message-Id: <000201c6ad37$228584e0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Spanish iris etc Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 22:32:53 -0400 Just as there is a difference between what one orders and what one receives, there can be a difference between what is commonly accepted to be true and what really exists. In particular, what should we make of the name Iris x anglica? I don't mean the name Iris anglica, which is an old synonym of Iris latifolia. I mean the horticultural name Iris x anglica. This is the name used by some continental writers to name the garden forms of English irises. The implication is that they are not simply Iris latifolia cultivars. When Jim Waddick says " Theoretically there can be NO hybrid English or Spanish Iris, by definition these would be Dutch Iris (all hybrids)." I think I understand what he is trying to say here, but in fact it's more likely that the Spanish irises and maybe the English irises too are in fact hybrids. When Jim Waddick says that there can be no hybrid English or Spanish irises, I think what he meant to say is that no inter-specific hybrid can properly belong to those groups. But the existing forms doubtless arose from infra-specific hybridization. That's what horticulturists do best: mix it all up to see what they'll get. Cultivated corn is attributed to a single species, Zea mays, yet the widely grown corns of today are almost always described as hybrids. Jim McKenney From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Sat Jul 22 02:29:30 2006 Message-Id: <002301c6ad58$2f0bfd40$dde81b52@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Spanish iris etc Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 07:29:27 +0100 Jim Waddick wrote, about obtaining named cultivars: > And what you order and what you get are two very distinct things. > > I think you'd have better luck dealing directly with a high > quality English Bulb Dealer such as Pottertons or similar. Mayube > other members can make a suggestion. > This OK if the plant in question is a rarity not produced by the Dutch growers, but the vast majority of familiar named cultivars ARE produced by the Dutch and retailed by the likes of Pottertons, Avon Bubs, Broadleigh Gardens etc. They do not produce their own stock of standard commercial items, although all grow the choicer special things for which they have good reputations. The issue of misnamed Dutch bulbs is a big problem and it really needs a test case under trading standards legislation to sort out. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk From msittner@mcn.org Sat Jul 22 10:31:41 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060722071446.0258a8c0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Spanish iris etc Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 07:23:33 -0700 List member Rafa Diez from Spain has kindly written me with information for the wiki Spanish Iris page so I have added it. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SpanishIrises Will this address your concerns Jim (McKenney) so I won't have to rename the page and change the links? Rafa also sent some pictures from a friend illustrating some of these species so if we get permission to add them to the wiki, when Susan has time, she will downsize them and add them. Thanks Rafa for your help. Mary Sue From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sat Jul 22 11:29:52 2006 Message-Id: <000001c6ada3$acab9bc0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Spanish iris etc Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:29:50 -0400 Thanks to Mary Sue and Rafa Diez for keeping the ball rolling on these issues. I can't wait to see the images of the wild irises. But no, the text as written does not address my concerns. The term Spanish iris historically has been used (commonly since at least the nineteenth century) to refer not to any wild iris but to those garden irises derived primarily (most accounts imply exclusively) from Iris xiphium. In a sense, it was the development of the so-called Dutch irises in the very late nineteenth century or early twentieth century (I don't know precisely when, but the hybrids were well known by the end of the first decade of the twentieth century) which reinforced the significance of the distinction to be maintained between the old Spanish iris group of garden origin and the then new Dutch irises. These old Spanish irises of garden origin have been grown since at least the late sixteenth century, the reign of Elizabeth I of England and the time of Shakespeare. Because Iris xiphium itself is native from northwestern Africa to Portugal and Spain and southern France, it's a variable plant. It's worth noting that Grey in his Hardy Bulbs gives the parentage of the Dutch irises as Iris xiphium and "an earlier-flowering stronger growing form, found in the neighborhood of Gibraltar" - in other words, another form of Iris xiphium; if this is true, then at least some of these early Dutch irises were not (nominally at least) inter-specific hybrids at all. On the other hand, there seems to be no doubt that some, perhaps most, of the plants which emerged as Dutch iris later are truly of inter-specific hybrid origin. We still need a name for the group as a whole. To reiterate, "Spanish irises" is not suitable because that term has a long history of use in reference to a particular group of garden irises. This larger group in question includes not only these old garden irises, but also their wild progenitors and related species, most of which related species presumably did not play a role in the development of the garden Spanish irises. An old group name is available: Xiphion. But that term invites confusion with "xiphium". How about "Xiphions: the western Mediterranean bulbous irises"? Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where I'm still sharpening my xiphion on these issues. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Mary Sue Ittner Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 10:24 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Spanish iris etc List member Rafa Diez from Spain has kindly written me with information for the wiki Spanish Iris page so I have added it. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SpanishIrises Will this address your concerns Jim (McKenney) so I won't have to rename the page and change the links? Rafa also sent some pictures from a friend illustrating some of these species so if we get permission to add them to the wiki, when Susan has time, she will downsize them and add them. Thanks Rafa for your help. Mary Sue _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Jul 22 11:38:41 2006 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Spanish iris NOT Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:38:28 -0500 Dear Mary Sue and with apologies to our Spanish member, I object to the Title of the wiki page. We get into trouble when you confuse common names like English and Spanish Iris with actual country designations. The Wiki page might be called 'Iris of Spain' which is VERY different from the Horticultural group of cvs known as "Spanish Iris". The better title should be "Xiphium Iris" because it includes the species and the 3 horticultural groups and species who grow beyond the political boundaries of Spain proper. It could be cross referenced to include the 3 horticultural groups. I tried to point out the oddness of all this in my earlier message. As I said "Traditionally Spanish Iris have been selections of I. xiphium PERIOD. Likewise, English iris are selections of I. latifolia PERIOD But, both of these and other related species* have contributed to the complex of Dutch Iris Theoretically there can be NO hybrid English or Spanish Iris, by definition these would be Dutch Iris (all hybrids)." To be specific. Originally Spanish Iris were all only cvs of I. xiphium. Hybrids* of I xiphium with any other species are then 'automatically Dutch Iris. Same for English Iris (I latifolia cvs). Dutch iris are a sort of catch-all and are often given the name Iris xhollandica. But as soon as you start mixing species that SHOULD be called Dutch Iris. And all this has no relationship with what you will get when you order. As John Grimshaw said, yes the Dutch produce a lot of all three groups (so are they all "Dutch" iris because they come from Dutch nurseries?) But some specialty nurseries do (I think) produce some specialty bulbs with more care, just not easy to get. There's a lot of roulette in ordering Spanish and English Iris from Big Box dealers ( I won't name names, but you all get these colorful Fall bulbs catalogs). Makes total no sense to me, just the way it is. Jim W. * Hybrids. Jim McK mentioned the use of this word and it bugs me a lot. I use the word to mean a cross between two species or 'inter-species hybrid'. Today you see the word used to indicate a cross between 2 genetic lines. Such as Hybrid Japanese Iris which are in the same species I. ensata so my kind of hybrids are just not possible. And many people in many plant groups will take a complex advanced multi generational cross (say a modern tall bearded iris) and cross it with a species such as I pallida and call it a "hybrid" or worse a species cross. Yes, but...... Using my definition of hybrid as a species cross, there are no Spanish or English Iris hybrids, only Dutch iris. Cleaar as...... -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jlubelover@telus.net Sat Jul 22 12:32:38 2006 Message-Id: <20060722163234.0240QWXJER@priv-edtnaa06.telusplanet.net> From: jlubelover@telus.net Subject: Spanish iris etc Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:29:42 -0700 On 21 Jul 06, at 14:18, James Waddick wrote: > Traditionally Spanish Iris have been selections of I. xiphium PERIOD. > Likewise, English iris are selections of I. latifolia PERIOD > > But, both of these and other related species* have > contributed to the complex of Dutch Iris The Dutch irises are generally considered not to have I. latifolia in their ancestry, but Mathews (quoted below) admits the possibility. > Theoretically there can be NO hybrid English or Spanish Iris, > by definition these would be Dutch Iris (all hybrids). I think you contradict yourself. A hypothetical hybrid "Dutch" iris with I. latifolia in its ancestry would also be a hybrid English iris. > Of course you need the right climate too and we discussed the > difficulties of long term success with Dutch iris in the last year or > so. Few people succeed. Iris latifolia does fairly well in Victoria. The cultivar "Mount Blanc" has done well for me for many years, and the common blue- violet form (well, for some values of "common") I've seen growing in a front garden under conditions of total neglect. However, in my own garden the common blue-violet form survives but does not flower because of competition from trees and shrubs and perhaps lack of sun. Supposedly I. latifolia demands more water than I. xiphium and its hybrid offspring. Bulbous irises are usually divided into several subgenera: 1. the reticulatas, aka subgenus /Hermodactyloides/ or genus /Iridodictyum/ 2. the xiphions, aka subgenus /Xiphium/ or genus /Xiphium/ 3. the junos, aka subgenus /Scorpiris/ or genus /Juno/ We find this 3-way classification of bulbous irises in Dykes' "Irises" (1912), Köhlein's "Iris" (1981, Eng. translation 1987), and Brian Mathews' "The Iris" (1981, rev. ed 1989). Whether these are subgenera or distinct genera is not of importance. For the purposes of the present discussion, it is only important to note that the xiphions, including "Spanish", "English", and "Dutch" irises form a natural group universally recognized. Mathews says on p. 138 "There are also many garden hybrids betgween I. xiphium and I. tingitana, possibly also with I. latifolia influence, and these are known collectively as the "Dutch iris". To recap: I. xiphium = Spanish iris I. latifolia = I. xiphioides = English iris hybrids within the xiphion group = Dutch iris. As for the wiki, seems to me that under "Iris", we'd do well to have a sub-page for each recognized subcategory, no matter what you might call them. The wiki would be most valuable if it recognized the disparities in naming and what level the subcategories should go at, while pointing out that the subcategories are universally accepted. Mary Sue, shall I start work on synthesizing such a system? From msittner@mcn.org Sat Jul 22 14:49:54 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060722105207.03676268@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Spanish iris etc Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:49:25 -0700 I had avoided the Iris wiki pages for a long time since I knew they would present a huge challenge. But when we started adding John Lonsdale's pictures I was forced to come up with some way of dividing the pages. I asked for help in doing this since I admit I am not an expert on Iris and used some of the few suggestions I got to name the pages. In the past we have had requests not to make our wiki pages more complicated beyond the genus level as we wanted our information to be available to a wide range of users so we have not named our wiki subgenus pages by the subgenus name except perhaps in the case of Moraea when a lot of people were familiar with Homeria, Galaxia, and some of the other former genera that were combined into Moraea. It's one reason I insisted our wiki not be divided by families as most people would not be able to find the information they needed searching that way. So I was at a loss about how to name the wiki iris pages. So this is what I came up with: Bulbous irises with wiki pages named Juno Irises, Reticulata Irises, and Spanish Irises. Irises with rhizomes with wiki pages named Aril Irises, Garden Bearded Irises, Beardless Irises, Crested Irises, and Pacific Coast Irises. My choices could not be perfect and I hoped that by explaining on the top of each page and including the botanical subgenus name if I could find what they were, people could live with my choices. I'm not sure when I started on this project, maybe March. I worked on it for months and months, making one subpage at a time as we removed the information for the species for each group as we transferred them and added new pictures and species from John. Now I wish I had just left them all alphabetical and just divided the pages as Iris One, Iris Two, Iris Three, etc. I'll keep that in mind if and when we tackle any other large genera. If the name Spanish Iris is going to agitate people, it can be changed, but I do not have time at the moment to do it. And no doubt some people won't be happy with using Xiphium as it will only have meaning to those people who are well versed with Iris. I spent some time today hoping to make it better, but that's all the time I have to devote to this. If Rodger is willing to help that would be great. If not I suggest Jim McKenney does it since he is the one who first complained about the choice of words. People can make changes to other people's work on a wiki. All I ask is if the name of the page is changed all of the iris wiki pages are changed at the same time to reflect this so the links will work as I do not have time to do it. And I ask you to name the page something that is consistent with the other wiki Iris pages and name it in a wiki page way by writing the words together instead of using brackets. Mary Sue From eez55@earthlink.net Sat Jul 22 22:59:17 2006 Message-Id: <410-22006702325939520@earthlink.net> From: "Eugene Zielinski" Subject: Spanish iris Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 22:59:39 -0400 Jim McK posed a question and a statement to which he probably wasn't expecting an answer. But, I do have a couple of replies. > From: "Jim McKenney" > Subject: [pbs] Spanish iris > > "One mass distribution catalog which offered "Spanish irises" for years used > an illustration of Iris korolkowii to depict the "Spanish irises". I often > wondered what people who ordered those got: did they get Iris korolkowii > (given the price, I doubt it) or did they get true Spanish irises? " I did order the "Spanish Iris" from that mass distribution catalog. What I received were some "Dutch" irises, and rather inferior ones at that. I wasn't concerned when they failed to reappear the following year. (This was before I knew what an Iris korolkowii was.) > "The last time I ordered Spanish irises I received English irises, Iris > latifolia, (the plant long known as Iris xiphioides). Instead of the small > bulbs of Spanish irises, I got these huge English iris bulbs. No one, to my > knowledge, has successfully grown English irises here in the middle Atlantic > states." Is Pennsylvania a mid-Atlantic state? About 10 years ago, I ordered a dozen "English Irises" (from the same mass distributor, I think.) They bloomed the first year, and sent up only leaves the second year. I figured I'd never see them again, but they bloomed the third year. By year 4, they had spread into two foot clumps, each clump bearing about a dozen blooms. (In other words, they spread like a nice daffodil variety.) The bloom period was short, about a week, but the plants were beautiful. I did photograph the clumps one year. If I can find the pictures and if they are decent, and if I have time to digitize them, I'll get them on the wiki. Needless to say, I did not consider taking any of the bulbs with me when I moved to Georgia. As for what to call the Spanish Iris group, I'm in agreement with Jim W. "Xiphium" is a good term, as long as it is not italicized. It distinguishes these irises from the reticulatas and junos. Gene Eugene Zielinski Augusta, Georgia USA From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Sun Jul 23 02:19:09 2006 Message-Id: <861256E7-F6C8-4694-8E26-E2245C0BBD06@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Spanish iris etc Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:19:10 -0700 On Jul 20, 2006, at 5:58 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: > The last time I ordered Spanish irises I received English irises, Iris > latifolia, (the plant long known as Iris xiphioides). On Jul 22, 2006, at 8:29 AM, Jim McKenney wrote: > An old group name is available: Xiphion. But that term invites > confusion > with "xiphium". > > How about "Xiphions: the western Mediterranean bulbous irises"? On Jul 22, 2006, at 8:38 AM, James Waddick wrote: > The better title should be "Xiphium Iris" because it includes > the species and the 3 horticultural groups and species who grow > beyond the political boundaries of Spain proper. It could be cross > referenced to include the 3 horticultural groups. On Jul 22, 2006, at 9:29 AM, jlubelover@telus.net wrote: > To recap: > > I. xiphium = Spanish iris > I. latifolia = I. xiphioides = English iris > hybrids within the xiphion group = Dutch iris. Not knowing much about Iris species and group names, but having seen the "Spanish," "English," and "Dutch" Irises offered in catalogs over the years, I've learned quite a bit from this and earlier discussions about this group of irises. (And in fact, a bunch of ordinary blue, yellow, and white Dutch Iris I planted in my mother's garden more than 25 years ago in central Texas has thrived and increased and blooms every year in early spring. I've sent her some of the more striking new varieties that have appeared since then to add to her collection.) So, if I were looking to learn more from what I generally had picked up from catalogs and the local nurseries, and based on the above excerpted comments, this is what would be for me the most useful way to subdivide and title the wiki for this group: I'd call the separate page "Spanish, English, and Dutch (Xiphium group) Irises". (The Xiphium in parentheses could be instead Xiphion as suggested above. I don't see a big bottom-line difference between the two.) Then put in three dividing lines with subsection titles on that page for Spanish, English, and Dutch Irises. And then put the various species, horticultural groups, and hybrids in their proper subgroup sections. Also, put in Jim W's (and jlubelover's) succinct summary version of each the three after each subsection heading. (Also, including Jim McK's and jlubelover's mention of the common synonym species name for the English Irises [I. xiphioides], since I had seen that one a number of times over the years.) Mary Sue already has a dividing line separating the Spanish and the Dutch Irises on the "Spanish" Iris page. In the description at the top of the page we could put in a summary of the main comments and concerns that have been expressed about this group of irises because I think this would be useful to the newly interested grower-to-be that might be using the wiki to help them out in understanding this group. If no one else volunteers, I'll make these changes to the wiki. But I won't have time to re-do and refine and edit the first cut. Others could do that since it's always easier to edit or change something that is already there than it is to put the words there in the first place. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA, USDA Zone 10a From khixson@nu-world.com Sun Jul 23 05:45:35 2006 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20060723015332.0278d780@mail.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Spanish iris Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 02:45:04 -0700 Dear Members: There's always someone who can't seem to agree, and this time it is me. Trying to separate "Spanish", "Dutch", and "English" iris by species is like trying to classify tall bearded iris by the species they originally derived from. There has been so much hybridization that it is simply meaningless. "English" iris do not occur in England, and "Dutch" iris have probably been hybridized with all related species. Unlike Jim, I do not believe all hybrids are "Dutch", because all three groups have been hybridized with all related species. (Incidentally, some botanists define hybridization as the crossing of two genetically distinct plants, and even go so far as to say that it includes crossing two plants that differ only in one allele on one chromosome--which is very, very different than what "gardeners" consider hybridization.) (Using this definition, almost all plants are hybrids, even if they are pure species-- confusing, don't you think?) My understanding is that the definitions were functional, rather than genetic. "Spanish" iris were early, had stems too short to make good cut flowers, and had relatively thin textured flowers which didn't stand up well to handling. Flowers smaller than the "Dutch" iris. They generally did not force well except in the spring. At one time they were sold as pot plants, rather than cut flowers. Potted plants are heavy, thus cost money to ship. Spanish iris are now seldom seen in florists' shops. "Dutch" iris force well, year round. Stems were long enough to cut, and flowers were of heavy enough texture to stand handling. They could be cut in bud, and would develop in water and still last in flower. "English" iris flower a little later--a week to ten days--and force poorly, even in the spring and hardly at all out of season. Flowers the largest of the three groups, but that was not enough to offset the slower forcing and reluctance to be forced out of season. Because the market was for cut flowers for florists, the group that best met florists' needs were most developed, and hybridization and selection concentrated on plants which meet the florist specifications. The plants currently being offered to gardeners started their life as cut flower plants, now excess to market needs in the florist industry. So, how do you classify them? In my opinion, the species, and then the hybrids with a short heading explaining the major differences between the hybrid groups. Well, one person's opinion, chose what works for you. Ken From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sun Jul 23 11:35:04 2006 Message-Id: <000001c6ae6d$9118aea0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Spanish iris etc Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:35:02 -0400 I'm enjoying this discussion of the western Mediterranean bulbous irises, and it's interesting to see a sort of consensus emerging. However, there is one point on which I want to be a stickler. I would strongly object to calling this group the Xiphium group. Why? Because the word xiphium is the name of a particular species within the group. Consider that, unlike zoological nomenclature, formal botanical nomenclature is averse to tautological names at the generic-specific ranks. Prohibitions against this are written into the code. In zoological nomenclature, a name such as Bison bison bison is allowed (this is our North American bison in its type subspecies). If the bison were a plant, the name would have to be changed. If the name Bison were kept for the genus, the name of the species would have to change to a different name. I don't know if in naming groups above the rank genus the use of the specific epithet of an included species is prohibited by the code. Perhaps someone who has easy access to a copy of the current code can check this out. But prohibited or not, it strikes me as a poor practice to invite ambiguity when it is so easily avoided. That's why I suggested the name Xiphions. No, that's not a misprint for Xiphiums. Note also that this is English (or English in form - I used the plural to make that clear): it's not meant to be understood as a Latinized Greek taxon. Of course, it's nothing more than an Anglicization of the existing taxon Xiphion. I appreciated the comments of jlubelover. But I have to quibble with the assertion that > I. xiphium = Spanish iris I'm holding out for the narrower point of view that the term "Spanish iris" refers uniquely to the garden cultivars of Iris xiphium. Although it's a hairbreadth distinction, I don't think the name properly applies to the wild forms of Iris xiphium. In particular, it's not appropriate to call a species native to many north African and southwestern European countries "Spanish" (these countries include, according to some accounts, Italy - in particular, Sicily and even some mainland Italian sites). Nor is there any reason to suppose that the cultivated Spanish irises, taken as a group, correspond to any wild population of Iris xiphium. Note that I don't expect horticultural names to meet the same criteria of appropriateness, relevance, geographic accuracy or even implied relationship. Fantasy, metaphor, illusion, downright lies and misconceptions are all part of the tradition of horticultural names. In my book, they're like vernacular names: let sleeping dogs lie! And so with that in mind I'm not about to start to campaign to change the name "English irises". One more thing: when Mary Sue wrote " If not I suggest Jim McKenney does it since he is the one who first complained about the choice of words." But I wasn't complaining, I was promoting disambiguation. And I'll be glad to help with redoing the page. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where crepe myrtles are blooming and giving the area a sort of cotton-candy-carnival atmosphere. From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sun Jul 23 12:19:08 2006 Message-Id: <000101c6ae73$b788dd70$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Spanish iris Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:19:04 -0400 Eugene Zielenski, in commenting on the culture of English irises, asked " Is Pennsylvania a mid-Atlantic state? " In response, I would say depending on the context, maybe. It seems that English irises have been grown successfully in New York State and northward (I'm basing that partially on the account in Molly Price's The Iris Book). So to go back to Eugene's question, I would say that western Pennsylvania is not for purposes of this discussion a middle Atlantic state. I had in mind the piedmont and coastal plain areas, the areas of the major, old cities in this area. For horticultural purposes, the conditions in the physiographic provinces west of the piedmont are significantly different. The zones of similar conditions in this part of the country run roughly southwest to northeast. As you move westward, especially as you cross physiographic provinces, conditions change rapidly. So my question for Eugene is "Where in Pennsylvania were you growing those English irises?" And I'll bet it was not on the coastal plain or piedmont. If it was, please tell us more. There is a sort of gray eminence in this discussion of the culture of bulbous irises, a gray eminence to which I have not called attention. But I have mentioned it in other posts in the past. What I'm referring to are the bulletins written by David Griffiths and published back during the 1920s and 1930s by the USDA. These discuss bulb culture in hugely interesting detail. One such bulletin is devoted to the culture of bulbous irises of the Spanish, Dutch and English groups. Griffiths reported levels of success compatible with commercial production for Spanish and Dutch irises in diverse parts of the country (North Carolina, Virginia, Tennessee, Illinois, Michigan, New York, California, the Pacific Northwest). He reported widespread failure with English irises outside of the Pacific Northwest (the Puget Sound area is evidently ideal for them) and some colder northeastern states (New York and Massachusetts). Of particular interest to me is that one of the sites for his work was a place called the Arlington Experiment Farm in Rosslyn, Virginia. Rosslyn is now a heap of high-rise buildings clustered at the edge of the Potomac River opposite Georgetown, Washington, D.C. I pay particular attention to any comments Griffiths made about successes and failures at Rosslyn - these can fairly be expected to predict success or failure for me because Rosslyn is only about twelve miles from here as the crow flies. English irises were a failure for Griffiths in Washington, D.C. So, Eugene, where in Pennsylvania were you growing those irises? Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where I'm awaiting the delivery of a peck of freshly picked peaches; when the peaches get here, you won't be hearing from me for awhile. I'll be preparing and eating peach pie and peach ice cream for the next few days. From jshaw@opuntiads.com Sun Jul 23 21:18:58 2006 Message-Id: <003401c6aebf$25aa4460$6501a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: frost tolerant Crinum foliage Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 20:19:01 -0500 Hi Gang, I have some C. bulbispermum plants in my yard. The foliage stays green all winter, even when temperatures have dropped briefly to 23 F (rising to well above freezing the next morning. Similarly, C. x powellii types are essentially evergreen. Essentially all other Crinum plants I grow are burned at 28 F and most die back completely with an hour or two of 25 F. Does anyone know at what point these plants lose their folaige to frost? Cordially, Joe Hot again today, Amarcrinum still blooming, and some odds and ends of rainlilies. From khixson@nu-world.com Mon Jul 24 14:00:18 2006 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20060723195448.02e958c0@mail.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: frost tolerant Crinum foliage Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 20:03:45 -0700 Dear Joe: >Does anyone know at what point these plants lose their folaige to frost? I'm not much help. Here (western Oregon, Z7/8) all of the Crinums are frostbitten in winter, and our lows often do not get much below +20F. I almost said Crinums are deciduous, but that is inaccurate, isn't it--they don't lose their leaves, because the leaves just keep growing. They stop growing after cold that "bites" the exposed portions. They start growing more leaves (extending the existing leaves) well before the last frost. I'll try to be more observant this winter. C. Burgundy has opened one flower. Plants by the label "Royal White" have been in bloom for about two weeks, but the flowers have been pink, so presumably I've mixed the labels with C. x powelii. Ken From coffeecamp@optusnet.com.au Mon Jul 24 03:57:09 2006 Message-Id: <000501c6aef6$c153a4b0$550da4cb@geoff2abba5c65> From: "Geoffrey Barnier" Subject: Bees and flowers decline in step Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 17:17:33 +1000 Gary in Hawaii has brought to notice an interesting topic. Organic & permaculture gardeners recommend planting an area of between 1% & 5% of your land with a nectar source for beneficial & pest-controlling insects for good results. This can be along fencelines or garden edges. Planting particular flowers & herbs, known as insectary plants, has been proven to improve the natural balance & reduce pest outbreaks. The insectary plant area should be allowed to go wild & provides year-round nectar, pollen & habitat for native & introduced beneficials, e.g. predatory mites & wasps, ladybirds, lacewings, hoverflies, tachnid flies & predatory beetles as well as bees. Insectary plants include red clover, lucerne, sweet alice, dill, caraway, coriander, cosmos, buckwheat, baby's breath, marigold & Queen Anne's Lace. Every little bit helps. Geoff in Nimbin Subtropical NSW Australia From coffeecamp@optusnet.com.au Mon Jul 24 04:45:19 2006 Message-Id: <001201c6aefd$7bcc66f0$550da4cb@geoff2abba5c65> From: "Geoffrey Barnier" Subject: Bees and flowers decline in step Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:45:13 +1000 Gary in Hawaii has brought to notice an interesting topic of pollinators generally. I do not have the night moth in my area which pollinates Tulbaghia, which isn't surprising since I've taken the plant away out of its natural habitat of South Africa. But I would have thought that one of our local pollinators would step in & do the job but no. The only night moth I know of here is Spodoptera picta, the Lily Borer, Australia's answer to Brithys crini syn. Brithys pancratii or Amaryllis Caterpillar. But looking on the brightside, since Tulbaghias are rather promiscuous & I'm growing many species, then at least my Tulbaghias won't hybridise without my intervention. Organic & permaculture gardeners recommend planting an area of between 1% & 5% of one's land with a nectar source for beneficial & pest-controlling insects for good results. This can be along fencelines or garden edges. Planting particular flowers & herbs, known as insectary plants, has been proven to improve the natural balance & reduce pest outbreaks. The insectary plant area should be allowed to go somewhat wild & provides year-round nectar, pollen & habitat for native & introduced beneficials, e.g. predatory mites & wasps, ladybirds, lacewings, hoverflies, tachnid flies & predatory beetles as well as bees. Insectary plants include red clover, lucerne, sweet alice, dill, caraway, coriander, cosmos, buckwheat, baby's breath, marigold & Queen Anne's Lace. Every little bit helps. Geoff in Nimbin Subtropical NSW Australia From coffeecamp@optusnet.com.au Mon Jul 24 04:45:25 2006 Message-Id: <001601c6aefd$7fea2c90$550da4cb@geoff2abba5c65> From: "Geoffrey Barnier" Subject: Bees and flowers decline in step Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:45:20 +1000 Gary in Hawaii has brought to notice an interesting topic of pollinators generally. I do not have the night moth in my area which pollinates Tulbaghia, which isn't surprising since I've taken the plant away out of its natural habitat of South Africa. But I would have thought that one of our local pollinators would step in & do the job but no. The only night moth I know of here is Spodoptera picta, the Lily Borer, Australia's answer to Brithys crini syn. Brithys pancratii or Amaryllis Caterpillar. But looking on the brightside, since Tulbaghias are rather promiscuous & I'm growing many species, then at least my Tulbaghias won't hybridise without my intervention. Organic & permaculture gardeners recommend planting an area of between 1% & 5% of one's land with a nectar source for beneficial & pest-controlling insects for good results. This can be along fencelines or garden edges. Planting particular flowers & herbs, known as insectary plants, has been proven to improve the natural balance & reduce pest outbreaks. The insectary plant area should be allowed to go somewhat wild & provides year-round nectar, pollen & habitat for native & introduced beneficials, e.g. predatory mites & wasps, ladybirds, lacewings, hoverflies, tachnid flies & predatory beetles as well as bees. Insectary plants include red clover, lucerne, sweet alice, dill, caraway, coriander, cosmos, buckwheat, baby's breath, marigold & Queen Anne's Lace. Every little bit helps. Geoff in Nimbin Subtropical NSW Australia From jshields@indy.net Mon Jul 24 08:04:36 2006 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20060724075444.01b77660@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: frost tolerant Crinum foliage Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 08:04:56 -0400 Hi Joe and all, I've not in the past checked for when the crinums outdoors lose their green foliage, but I'll try to do that this year. We have C. bulbispermum, C. x-powellii, C. variabile, C. [bulbispermum x lugardiae], C. 'Catherine', C. 'Emma', and some "J.C. Harvey" type hybrids growing outdoors in the ground. Some of these are growing right next to a greenhouse, so their bulbs are probably never subjected to actual freezing temperatures. All of them however eventually lose all their foliage in winter, here in Indiana, USDA zone 5. We are ready to test some more crinums outdoors in an open bed -- not close to a greenhouse -- this winter. We've lined out some [bulbispermum x variabile] and some [bulbispermum x graminicola] seedlings. We've also planted a few seedlings from two different batches of C. lugardiae in the ground. We tried a row of ca 20 seedling bulbs of [bulbispermum x macowanii] out in the field some years ago. Only three of the seedling survived the winters. After 2 or 3 winters, I lifted those 3 survivors and now grow them in large pots. I am hoping to use them for breeding when they finally start to bloom. Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) At 08:19 PM 7/23/2006 -0500, you wrote: >I have some C. bulbispermum plants in my yard. The foliage stays green all >winter, even when temperatures have dropped briefly to 23 F (rising to well >above freezing the next morning. Similarly, C. x powellii types are >essentially evergreen. > >Essentially all other Crinum plants I grow are burned at 28 F and most die >back completely with an hour or two of 25 F. > >Does anyone know at what point these plants lose their folaige to frost? > >Cordially, > >Joe ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From YOURCH@nortel.com Tue Jul 25 12:00:44 2006 Message-Id: <45409CEDA4EFB7428420872E126CFB010D0AF8D0@zrtphxm2.corp.nortel.com> From: "James Yourch" Subject: New Rain Lily Photos Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:00:36 -0400 Hi all, The time of year has arrived when each rain shower produces a good rain lily show in my garden. Here are two I photographed last weekend. Both are selections of Z. 'Labuffarosea' made by Plant Delights Nursery. Regards, Jay 'Confection' http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Zephyranthes#Confection 'Pink Panther' http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Zephyranthes#PinkPanther From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Jul 25 12:55:19 2006 Message-Id: <000701c6b00b$1ac932c0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: hybrids Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:55:15 -0400 Jim Waddick objected to my use of the word hybrid to describe "a cross between 2 genetic lines" - in contrast to his preferred usage, a cross between two species. In fact, the word has had the meaning I used (the progeny of parents which are members of the same species but differ in some detail) for over two thousand years. The Romans called the offspring of, for instance, a Roman citizen and a foreigner "hybrida". It might be argued that the word originally had a meaning closer to "mongrel" than to the modern inter-species concept. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the only things I'm crossing now are my fingers: thunderstorms are on the way and I've got things to finish outside before they arrive. From irisman@ameritech.net Tue Jul 25 13:30:08 2006 Message-Id: <001101c6b00f$8a2c12a0$0100a8c0@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 42, Issue 29.. Growing conditions Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:27:00 -0500 Hello all: Between +20 and -20 (Zone 5) there is more than "just" a little difference, which, although acknowledged, tends to be overlooked, glossed, or otherwise neglected in discussions about "hardiness" which word is used carelessly and thrown around about as loosely as partisan words in certain political conversations. Without being clear about what we are saying, we're not going to advance the cause of learning how to grow bulbs very well in different situations. Bulbs, however, are somewhat forgiving because of their storage capabilities--and can "ride out" intermittent climatic unevennesses that would more seriously affect a non-tuberous or non-bulbous plant. Somehow, the quality of soil that certain bulbs grow in needs to be mentioned--more often--if not routinely. Of course, by This certainly got touched on in the discussions about where to get coarse Perlite. Has anyone checked the degree of coarseness of Perlite used in building construction for insulation or manufacture of ceiling insulating tiles? I can imagine that it might be much cheaper even though it might not be packaged in less than cubic yard or carload lots. Adam in Glenview, IL. USDA Zone 5a ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 11:00 AM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 42, Issue 29 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post: <mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive: <http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. frost tolerant Crinum foliage (Kenneth Hixson) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 20:03:45 -0700 > From: Kenneth Hixson > Subject: [pbs] frost tolerant Crinum foliage > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20060723195448.02e958c0@mail.nu-world.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Dear Joe: >>Does anyone know at what point these plants lose their folaige to frost? > > I'm not much help. Here (western Oregon, Z7/8) all of the > Crinums are frostbitten in winter, and our lows often do not get much > below +20F. I almost said Crinums are deciduous, but that is > inaccurate, isn't it--they don't lose their leaves, because the leaves > just keep growing. They stop growing after cold that "bites" the exposed > portions. They start growing more leaves (extending the existing leaves) > well before the last frost. > I'll try to be more observant this winter. > > C. Burgundy has opened one flower. Plants by the label > "Royal White" have been in bloom for about two weeks, but the flowers > have been pink, so presumably I've mixed the labels with C. x powelii. > > Ken > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 42, Issue 29 > *********************************** > From perdy@mts.net Tue Jul 25 13:33:22 2006 Message-Id: <002301c6b010$6615d530$6600a8c0@your4f1261a8e5> From: "D Anderson" Subject: New Rain Lily Photos Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:33:10 -0500 Hi, Jay. Beautiful flowers. Thank you posting the pictures. I've never seen them bloom in person. I have a few rainlilies don't know the name, but I'm hoping that since it is finally raining here that maybe I will. :) Donna in Winnipeg, Manitoba > > 'Confection' > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Zephyranthes#Confection > > 'Pink Panther' > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Zephyranthes#PinkPanther > From dells@voicenet.com Tue Jul 25 18:25:22 2006 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 123 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 18:27:02 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by people from all over the world, to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 123" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (cash, check, or Paypal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: .... Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com . If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER.. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Chuck Schwartz: 1. Seed of Scadoxus puniceus From Mary Sue Ittner: SEED: 1. Cyclamen repandum 2. Cyrtanthus brachyscaphus -- evergreen, can be grown as houseplant or in greenhouse, blooms for me for many months in the spring, easiest of all Cyrtanthus for me 3.Dietes iridioides 4. Erythronium californicum 5. Freesia laxa as grandiflora -- Nargs seed source as F. grandiflora, but blooms at the same time as F. laxa and is only slightly larger than the F. laxa I grow so may just be a form of that BULBS: 6. Ferraria sp. -- Obtained from Telos as F. schaeferi, but when it bloomed looked like F. crispa and I never had a chance to find my Ferraria key to confirm this and this species is not listed in the Color Encyclopedia 7. Freesia corymbosa--This is an Eastern Cape species and although I've gotten it to bloom a couple of times, see wiki, I don't think it is all that happy in my Medit climate so am passing it on 8. Fritillaria pudica-- tiny offsets of a species that has never bloomed for me so I don't know if this is really what it is. 9. Herbertia lahue 10. Lachenalia bachmanii 11. Oxalis assinia (these were given me by someone else and have not bloomed so cannot vouch for their identity) 12. Oxalis flava (kind known as lupinifolia) 13. Oxalis hirta? (acquired from Telos as O. namaquana which it is not) 14. Oxalis luteola MV 6395 (reliable, long blooming for me, late fall) 15. Oxalis massoniana Oxalis obtusa (small quantities of each kind) 16. some unknown color 17. some peach 18. some yellow 19. some pink with gray leaves 20. MV5505a 21. Oxalis pes-caprae (shared as O. compressa, but I think it is the menace of California where it is invading our wild spots, please don't ask for it if there is any chance of it getting away from you where you live such as in Med. climates) 22. Oxalis purpurea 'Garnet' 23. Oxalis purpurea 'Skar' (these were given me by someone else and have not bloomed so cannot vouch for their identity) 24. Oxalis namaquana (Uli 59) -- last year we decided these were probably O. namaquana. I loved the bright yellow blooms in winter. Understood why I saw them bloom in mass in a wet year in Namaqualand as they offset a lot. 25. Oxalis semiloba (these were given me by someone else and have not bloomed so cannot vouch for their identity) 26. Oxalis from Uli labeled 69 bluish gray palmate leaves, grew in seasonally moist soil in heavy clay on the Niewoudville plateau. 27. Polyxena longituba - fall blooming, pot culture, short, very charming, increases well 28. Romulea tabularis-- mostly cormlets, perhaps some might bloom next year, but most probably will need two years 29. Triteleia laxa-- cormlets, not blooming size From Arnold Trachtenberg: "Some Colchicums corms and Colchicum seeds. All the Colchicums grow outside with no protection. I only added grit to the soil upon planting." 30. A quantity of open pollinated seed. I have about twenty different Colchicum in flower at the same time. 31. Seeds of Colchicum rhodopaeum: http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum/Colchicum_rhodopaeum8. JPG 32. Corms of Colchicum umbrosum: http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum/Colchicum_umbrosum2.JP G 33. Corms of Colchicum 'Princess Astrid': http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum/Colchicum_Princess_Ast rid_1.JPG From Al Sisk via Jim Shields: 34. Seeds of Crinum bulbispermum from his collection of old garden Crinum cultivars from Texas. Thank you, Chuck, Mary Sue, Arnold, Al, and Jim !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From jshaw@opuntiads.com Tue Jul 25 20:22:36 2006 Message-Id: <001c01c6b049$9ab915c0$6501a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: Wiki Pages, Crinum, and Crinum Hybrids Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:22:37 -0500 Hi Gang, I looked up some various Crinum hybrids on the WWW and was led to the PBS Crinum hybrid Wiki page. Wow! That page has grown and improved a lot in the past year or two. Similarly, the Crinum page (species) has lots of wonderful information. Thanks all. Thanks to the PBS, and thanks to Jay Yourch, Alani Davis, Alberto Grossi, Cameron McMaster, Jim McKenny, Nestor White, David Fenwick, Angello Porcelli, Rogan Roth, Bill Dijk, and anyone else I have missed. I enjoy the photos, the added notes, and the energy. LINK: Crinum PBS Wiki http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Crinum LINK: Crinum Hybrids PBS Wiki http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Crinum Cordially, Joe Conroe, TX. Lots of rain today, more is predicted for tonight. From totototo@telus.net Wed Jul 26 17:19:21 2006 Message-Id: <20060726211920.1FBDK19LK4@priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Growing conditions Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 14:14:52 -0700 On 25 Jul 06, at 12:27, Adam Fikso wrote: > ...Has anyone checked the degree of coarseness of Perlite used > in building construction for insulation or manufacture of ceiling > insulating tiles? I can imagine that it might be much cheaper even > though it might not be packaged in less than cubic yard or carload > lots. A reminder that such perlite *may* contain fluorides, which can damage your plants. Perlite sold as "horticultural" is selected to be free of fluorides. There's no certainty where other kinds are concerned. N.B. "may" "can" "no certainty" -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From lewisia@hei.net Wed Jul 26 21:16:02 2006 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060726181237.022ed460@hei.net> From: Joyce Miller Subject: Growing conditions Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:15:25 -0700 I got some construction Perlite one time for $11a bag. It was medium size and perfect to mix with Medium bark for orchid media. As a safety precaution, it was always pre wetted to avoid the fluoride. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Joyce E. Miller Sacramento, California, USA USDA Zone 6 Gresham Oregon, just east of Portland Oregon in the Willamette Valley From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Jul 27 09:18:07 2006 Message-Id: <000001c6b17f$1898fc40$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Wiki Pages, Crinum, and Crinum Hybrids Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:18:05 -0400 Last night, I ran across another reference to Crinum culture along the Hudson River: Neltje Blanchan, in her The American Flower Garden, published in 1909, stated that Crinum x powellii is "Hardy at New York if well covered in winter". I assume that means hardy in the New York City area. Isn't it curious that although this plant has been grown in that area for over a century (I assume that Blanchan's statement is based on several years' worth of experience), it's still a "new" plant to so many gardeners. It's odd how the gardening world works. Garden hellebores were evidently well known in the major northeast gardening centers a century ago - and the forms listed back then were sometimes named cultivars. Yet as far as the gardening world is concerned, hellebores were "discovered" only about fifteen years ago. Hardy cyclamen, Iris rosenbachiana and Iris tingitana were grown here in the Washington,D.C. area seventy-five years ago; but there is nothing that I am aware of in local garden lore or practice which acknowledges this. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where we're about to enter that lull between the last of the lilies and the first of the Lycoris squamigera. From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Jul 27 09:25:01 2006 Message-Id: <000101c6b180$0f3157a0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Galtonia candicans Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:24:58 -0400 Few of us have had much if anything to say about Galtonia candicans on this forum. (BTW, is this an Ornithogalum yet?) I've had mixed results with this plant here in Maryland. Planted near a wall, the plants formed clumps and bloomed very well for years - I seem to remember counting seventy-five flowers on one stem once. But plants in the open ground never persist. This has caused me to question its hardiness, although I've seen the statement that it is hardy to Boston. Do any of you have clumps which persist in the open ground in zones 7 or colder? Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where cicadas during the day and katydids during the night keep things lively. From jshields@indy.net Thu Jul 27 10:17:00 2006 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20060727101048.01b775d0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Galtonia candicans Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:17:21 -0400 Hi Jim McK. and all, I had Galtonia candicans and G. viridiflora in the open ground for several years. Both groups of bulbs gradually dwindled away. G. viridiflora may be slightly hardier than candicans around here. A couple years ago I planted some more bulbs of G. candicans, but this time in a raised sandy bed in open ground. I think the plants are increasing as well as flowering very nicely this year. In fact they are in full bloom right now. My impression is that Galtonia is hardy for a few years here. They are well worth replanting from time to time, in my opinion. Jim Shields in warm, rainy central Indiana (USA) At 09:24 AM 7/27/2006 -0400, you wrote: >Few of us have had much if anything to say about Galtonia candicans on this >forum. ..........Do any of you have clumps which persist in the open >ground in zones 7 or >colder? > >Jim McKenney ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jshields@indy.net Thu Jul 27 10:29:20 2006 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20060727101740.02d92f38@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Wiki Pages, Crinum, and Crinum Hybrids Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:28:27 -0400 Jim Waddick got me started playing with hardy crinums here in Indiana. Now I am planting more seedlings out in the open. Certainly not all Crinum are hardy here, and C. x-powellii is probably the least attractive crinum that does survive here. C. bulbispermum seems to do just as well as x-powellii but looks nicer, in my opinion. I have a bunch of different crinums in a very protected spot, but I have grown a few others out in the open field. The most unknown and under-rated Crinum is C. variabile. It seems perfectly hardy here, and it is a real jewel. I have pictures at: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/amaryllids/Crinum.html at the bottom of that page. Contrary to what I wrote there, it probably does not need mulching after its first winter in the ground. It flowers extremely reliably, large bulbs producing three scapes in succession, year after year. Mine are on their third scapes of the season right now. Height is generally under 24 inches, spread may be to 30 inches. Highly recommended! Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) At 09:18 AM 7/27/2006 -0400, you wrote: >Last night, I ran across another reference to Crinum culture along the >Hudson River: Neltje Blanchan, in her The American Flower Garden, published >in 1909, stated that Crinum x powellii is "Hardy at New York if well >covered in winter". ....... >Jim McKenney ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Jul 27 11:00:11 2006 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Galtonia candicans Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:54:31 -0500 >My impression is that Galtonia is hardy for a few years here. They are >well worth replanting from time to time, in my opinion. Dear all; I have had similar results to Jim S, but have not replanted. Not worth the fuss for me. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Jul 27 11:00:13 2006 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Was Crinum, and Crinum Hybrids - Now in the open. Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:00:00 -0500 >Jim Waddick got me started playing with hardy crinums here in Indiana. Now >I am planting more seedlings out in the open. Certainly not all Crinum are >hardy here, and C. x-powellii is probably the least attractive crinum that >does survive here. C. bulbispermum seems to do just as well as x-powellii >but looks nicer, in my opinion. Dear All;' Exactly my experience in a slightly cooler drier climate. These two are easy after a brief period to establish them in the open. > The most unknown and under-rated >Crinum is C. variabile. It seems perfectly hardy here, and it is a real >jewel. Haven't tried this AT All (shocked! ) so must give it a try. It looks very nice. Thanks Jim. I think C. x powellii is the entry level drug on the way to Crinum addiction. Easy and cheap, but not the prettiest flowers. C. x powewlli Alba -on the other hand- is a much nicer flower with all of the typical pink form's ease of growth. Give this one a try instead. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Jul 27 12:22:28 2006 Message-Id: <000201c6b198$d9a01450$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Was Crinum, and Crinum Hybrids - Now in the open. Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:22:26 -0400 Well, it had to happen eventually and now it has: the three Jims are finally in agreement about something! Crinum x powellii is indeed the poor relation in the genus. When this plant first bloomed here over forty years ago, it was the first Crinum I had ever actually seen, and it made a big impression. After a few years I began to notice that my plants were not all alike. Some had better color, some had better form, some had comparatively narrow tepals. And after a few seasons I began to begrudge the huge disproportion between floral effect and foliar expanse. I came to the point of view that in terms of garden effect they were daylilies on steroids - and I'm not big on daylilies as a rule. In the mid-80s I brought in a dozen new cultivars of Crinum, and they were my real introduction to the potential of the genus. After all these years Crinum x powellii is still thriving here. It's in bloom now. I don't know the origin of Crinum x powellii 'Album' (i.e. I don't know if its simply a white-flowered seedling or a sport of a pink-flowered form), but as I've grown it it's all around better than the pink forms. The flowers have a fuller, more regular form, and somehow seem more generous and beautiful than the pink-flowered forms. Great plant.... Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where we're definitely having Crinum weather. From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Jul 27 12:50:52 2006 Message-Id: <000301c6b19c$d0f41730$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: A neat lily for this time of year Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:50:49 -0400 There is a lily blooming in the garden now which, although it's nothing new, deserves a brief moment in the spotlight. Most of you who grow lilies have probably grown Lilium henryi at some time. In recent years there has been some buzz about the rediscovered Lilium rosthornii - this one has flowers essentially identical to those of Lilium henryi, but the rest of the plant is distinct. Lilium henryi is one of the most important lilies in the history of the development of modern garden cultivars. It was the amazing hybridization of Lilium speciosum and Lilium henryi nearly a half-century ago by Lesile Woodriff (the resulting hybrid came to be known as 'Black Beauty') which formed the basis for the developments which made possible the modern super lilies which are blooming now here in Maryland. I don't see Lilium henryi in gardens often. It has one fault for which most gardens will not forgive it: it leans. In fact, long ago E.A. Bowles accurately compared its habit of growth to that of a Polygonatum. I've never seen them, but rigidly upright forms are mentioned in the older literature. These I would like to have. But it was not Lilium henryi itself which prompted this post. The lilies I want to call attention to are the yellow-flowered forms of Lilium henryi. These yellow-flowered forms are lumped under the nonsense name Lilium henryi var citrinum. I call this a nonsense name because a) there is no wild population anywhere in the world which corresponds to these yellow-flowered plants b) they are of independent origin, i.e. they are not a clone c) they are not all alike, a circumstance which corroborates the assumption that they have independent origins. Unfortunately, most lily growers and sellers have never distinguished among them. On the rare occasions when they are offered, it's pot luck. I think at least three clones were known by the second half of the last century. And there is no reason why there may not be many more clones: if the yellow-flowered forms are crossed with the orange-flowered forms, and the progeny of that cross are crossed among themselves, you should get at least some new yellow-flowered forms. This lily has very attractive flowers of a good yellow - really the color of lemon rind. There is no trace of orange in the form I grow. Try to imagine it growing with blue mophead hydrangeas, or beside a blue bench. It seems to be no more difficult to grow than typical Lilium henryi, although the form I grow has so-far never attained the really prodigious dimensions sometimes attained by Lilium henryi. Does anyone else grow this plant? Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where one of the lilies now in bloom, Leslie Woodriff's 'Black Beauty', is the daughter of Lilium henryi which is the ancestor of some of the great modern super-lilies. From arnold@nj.rr.com Thu Jul 27 15:03:02 2006 Message-Id: <44C90964.8010005@nj.rr.com> From: arnold trachtenberg Subject: A neat lily for this time of year Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:43:48 -0400 Jim: I grow both henryi and rosthornii. Rosthornii flowers a bit earlier for me. Both get three to four hours of sun each day. They are strikingly similar and one of the methods to distinguish is the shape of the seed capsules. Arnold From YOURCH@nortel.com Thu Jul 27 14:57:20 2006 Message-Id: <45409CEDA4EFB7428420872E126CFB010D19900B@zrtphxm2.corp.nortel.com> From: "James Yourch" Subject: Was Crinum, and Crinum Hybrids - Now in the open. Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:57:11 -0400 Jim McKenney wrote: >I don't know the origin of Crinum x powellii 'Album' (i.e. I don't know if >its simply a white-flowered seedling or a sport of a pink-flowered form), >but as I've grown it it's all around better than the pink forms. The flowers >have a fuller, more regular form, and somehow seem more generous and >beautiful than the pink-flowered forms. Great plant.... Hi all, I will also put in a good word for Crinum x powellii 'Album', it is easy to grow, tolerant of cold winters, and blooms reliably every year with large, attractive, clean white flowers. See my clump in bloom at: http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybrids#powelliiAl bum The pink C. x powellii commonly offered in the trade is not impressive. While it is easy to grow and often produces many scapes with minimal care, the flowers are small and the petals lack substance. I have rain lilies with bigger flowers on plants that are an order of magnitude smaller! However, there are some attractive pink forms out there that deserve mentioning: 'Cecil Houdyshel' http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybrids#CecilHoudy shel 'Monterey Delight' http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybrids#MontereyDe light 'Imperial Guard' http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybrids#ImperialGu ard 'Eagle Rock' - may not be a pure C. x powellii, but seems closely related. http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybrids#EagleRock Regards, Jay From telosrarebulbs@cox.net Thu Jul 27 15:30:32 2006 Message-Id: <001201c6b1b3$1f112f00$060db146@DJ9SK221> From: "Telos Rare Bulbs" Subject: Telos is back! Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:30:30 -0700 Dear All: I am finally back on line after a break of almost two weeks. My Yahoo account seemed to work, so if you e-mailed me there, I will eventually get to answering your message (278 messages at last count). No messages sent to rarebulbs@cox.net went into my Outlook Express e-mail account, so if you e-mailed me there the messages bounced. Thank you for your patience, and thank you Susan Hayek for notifying people I was having problems. I just moved into a new office, and transferring the account was a big headache. Diana Chapman Telos Rare Bulbs From dells@voicenet.com Thu Jul 27 16:02:02 2006 Message-Id: <20060727200201.DA0934C00B@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Was Crinum, and Crinum Hybrids - Now in the open. Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:02:27 -0400 I too have been contemplating the removal of my clump of C. xpowellii pink. It takes up far too much room for the quality of the display it presents. Now to find a back hoe that will fit through the gate in my deer fence. I don't have powellii white, but I do have a growing clump of 'Carolina Beauty' which is clear white and has survived perhaps 5-6 winters here. The flowers are larger than those of the pink powellii. Does anyone know if 'Royal White' could be hardy if deeply planted here in zone 6-7? I know, Dr Waddick, "Give it a try." Dell -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James Yourch Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 2:57 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Was Crinum, and Crinum Hybrids - Now in the open. Jim McKenney wrote: >I don't know the origin of Crinum x powellii 'Album' (i.e. I don't know if >its simply a white-flowered seedling or a sport of a pink-flowered form), >but as I've grown it it's all around better than the pink forms. The flowers >have a fuller, more regular form, and somehow seem more generous and >beautiful than the pink-flowered forms. Great plant.... Hi all, I will also put in a good word for Crinum x powellii 'Album', it is easy to grow, tolerant of cold winters, and blooms reliably every year with large, attractive, clean white flowers. See my clump in bloom at: http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybrids#powelliiAl bum The pink C. x powellii commonly offered in the trade is not impressive. While it is easy to grow and often produces many scapes with minimal care, the flowers are small and the petals lack substance. I have rain lilies with bigger flowers on plants that are an order of magnitude smaller! However, there are some attractive pink forms out there that deserve mentioning: 'Cecil Houdyshel' http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybrids#CecilHoudy shel 'Monterey Delight' http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybrids#MontereyDe light 'Imperial Guard' http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybrids#ImperialGu ard 'Eagle Rock' - may not be a pure C. x powellii, but seems closely related. http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybrids#EagleRock Regards, Jay _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Jul 27 16:23:03 2006 Message-Id: <000001c6b1ba$74cf8bb0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Lilium rosthornii; was RE: A neat lily for this time of year Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:23:00 -0400 Arnold wrote: "I grow both henryi and rosthornii. Rosthornii flowers a bit earlier for me. Both get three to four hours of sun each day. They are strikingly similar and one of the methods to distinguish is the shape of the seed capsules." Right, Arnold. Some of our members may not know the history involved here. Although Lilium rosthornii was named in 1900 (it had been discovered in 1891), it never became well known in the west. In fact, there is some question about whether it was ever known as a live plant in the west until rather recently. Until Chen Yi began to send out bulbs, I think it's fair to say that virtually no one in the west had any real idea of what it was. Early twentieth century books make vague references to its similarity to Lilium henryi, but virtually nothing was really known about it. Some simply regarded it as a synonym of Lilium henryi. If an old photograph exists, I have not seen it. Writing in 1938, Col. Grey said " Collected by A. von Rosthorn in Szechuan in 1891, and unknown since that date." Its reintroduction at the end of the twentieth century caused a real buzz in the lily world. Right away, those who see only the flower could not understand why it wasn't simply Lilium henryi; maybe it is! Lilium henryi itself was discovered by Augustine Henry in 1888 and named by Baker later that year. That was only three years before the discovery of L. rosthornii. Unlike Lilium rosthronii, Lilium henryi made a smooth transition into cultivation. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where braised lilies are the order of the day. From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Thu Jul 27 16:26:03 2006 Message-Id: <20060727202602.70667.qmail@web34306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: A neat lily for this time of year Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:26:02 -0700 (PDT) I grow all three. I have rosthornii. It is very similar to henryi except for a few morphplogical features and the odd growth habit. Mine grow to a certain height and rest until mid-summer(now) and start to grow again. It is now growing taller and showing buds. It normally does not get much taller than 1m when it flowers. Normal bloom time is early September. And, best of all, it is delightfully fragrant, like Tiarella. My yellow henryi came from MOBOT and bloomed this year for the first time(all from a few bulbs scales originally) Unfortunatetly, I missed the open flowers. The buds though were a nice yellow. Strait henryi is a great species. It may lean, no matter how much sun is given, but it is a great plant and easy!! In bad climates it is one of the best lilies. At least it doesn't produce bulbils. I saw it featured years ago on PBS's Victory Garden; the plant was 2.5m tall held up by wires to keep it from leaning. My form always blooms at about 1m. Does anyone grow taller forms? What is really exceptional, or was last week, were the trumpets Lilies from China that bloom at 7ft. tall and 13 trumpets at the top! And highly fragrant. All the best, Aaron Z5 Kansas __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Jul 27 16:54:09 2006 Message-Id: <000101c6b1be$cd8bc670$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: A neat lily for this time of year Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:54:06 -0400 Aaron Floden wrote: " My form [Lilium henryi] always blooms at about 1m. Does anyone grow taller forms?" Aaron, I would say that a 1 m Lilium henryi is atypical. Typically, even under poor culture this species goes easily up to six feet. Even plants which do not carry a heavy bud count will be tall. And I've read of plants over 10 feet high (and heard from a friend about a 13 foot plant!). Aaron also mentioned tall lilies with lots of flowers. Those of you looking for such lilies have a lot to select from. The modern hybrids known as 'Black Beauty', 'Scheherazade', 'Silk Road', 'Leslie Woodriff' are all readily available and not expensive. These plants easily go to six to eight feet tall with lots of blooms per stem - lots as in twenty-five to thirty, even more if coddled (fewer for 'Silk Road', but it's still hugely impressive when growing well). And they are fragrant. I've had 'Black Beauty' with fifty buds and fragrant blooms in my garden - and I don't coddle my plants. There are lots of others, too. But the ones mentioned above have been successfully grown wherever lilies are grown. The only criticism I've heard of these plants is that some of them are shorter in the extreme north (i.e. Canada). Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Iris dichotoma is opening its first flowers of the year as I type. From jshaw@opuntiads.com Thu Jul 27 18:30:43 2006 Message-Id: <006401c6b1cc$4bcf0120$6401a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: Crinum hardiness Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:30:40 -0500 Last night, I ran across another reference to Crinum culture along the Hudson River: Neltje Blanchan, in her The American Flower Garden, published in 1909, stated that Crinum x powellii is "Hardy at New York if well covered in winter". I assume that means hardy in the New York City area. ----------------------- Hi Gang, Jim has provided some wonderful data from the "old literature." I wonder how much else is out there regarding Crinum and Crinum hybrids. Keep up the good work Jim M. Joe From jshaw@opuntiads.com Thu Jul 27 18:37:23 2006 Message-Id: <006801c6b1cd$3ab3c5f0$6401a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: hardy Crinums and C. powellii Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:37:21 -0500 and C. x-powellii is probably the least attractive crinum that does survive here. -------------------- Hi Gang, Jim S. points out the C. x powellii can be a forlorn plant, some seem to forget that they should make flowers. I know of 2 C. x powellii that I like. One is C. x powellii 'Alba' (or 'Album') and one is something I got in a trade called "Nestor's No. 13. I have 2 or 3 that are real dogs and I keep meaning to dig them up, but in midwinter, when most Crinum foliage dies back, they say evergreen in zone 9a, and I like the look (the winter look, not the flowers). I seem to recall a discussion of the pros and cons of C. x powellii on this forum a while ago, but here goes. ----------------------------------------------------------------- QUESIONS: Does anyone have a C. x powellii that reliably reblooms, either again in summer or fall? Does anyone know of a C. x powellii that has big flowers (big as Crinums go, not as C. x powellii goes). Does anyone have a good C. x powellii that reliably sets seed (your choice of pollen parent). Cordially, Joe Conroe TX Rain is over, not is is just hot and humid. From jshaw@opuntiads.com Thu Jul 27 18:42:03 2006 Message-Id: <006c01c6b1cd$e1b9cca0$6401a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: C. variabile Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:42:01 -0500 It flowers extremely reliably, large bulbs producing three scapes in succession, year after year. Mine are on their third scapes of the season right now. -------------------- Hi Gang, Jim S. reports that C. variabile is hardy and floriferous. I'm curious about the plants because I have some slowly growing along, from seeds purchased from Silverhill Seeds. The plants do fine here in Texas, but seemed to grow better when I put them in large pots and gave them wet feet from time to time. They also seem like a small species. Jim, do you grow in under special conditiosn (e.g., wet feet), or do you just give it good flowerbed-type care? How are the flowers, do they last, or do they fade in heat. Cordially, Joe Conroe TX From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Thu Jul 27 20:03:00 2006 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060727200125.027b6148@pop.earthlink.net> From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Galtonia candicans Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 20:02:49 -0400 Yes -- Jim -- it wintered most years in SW Michigan, in the Lake Michigan snowbelt (USDA zone 6a). Russell Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 From JYOURCH@nc.rr.com Thu Jul 27 21:23:22 2006 Message-Id: <000201c6b1e4$6be7c8d0$0200a8c0@Office> From: "Jay Yourch" Subject: hardy Crinums and C. powellii Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:23:23 -0400 Joe Shaw wrote: >I know of 2 C. x powellii that I like. One is C. x powellii 'Alba' (or >'Album') >and one is something I got in a trade called 'Nestor's No. 13'. Joe, Please note that 'Nestor's No. 13' is also known as 'Nestor's Pink' and 'Imperial Guard'. 'Imperial Guard' is what I am call it on the PBS Wiki Crinum Hybrids page. 'Imperial Guard' is also on the list of C. x powellii I recommended here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2006-July/025661.html There is an attractive hybrid named 'Norma Justine' made by Dave Lehmiller that is reliably seed fertile. It is a backcross of a C. x powellii onto C. bulbispermum. 'Cecil Houdyshel' occasionally sets seed, but not often enough that I would call it reliable. Regards, Jay From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Fri Jul 28 04:57:49 2006 Message-Id: <004101c6b223$e4cb0e30$9b520352@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: A neat lily for this time of year Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:57:07 +0100 I wonder if Jim McKenney's covetable library lacks Woodcock & Stearn's 'Lilies of the World' (1950), which I find to be still the most thorough source of information on lilies. It has the following information on the wild habitat of Lilium henryi, which, I think, explains much about its arching habit: 'On the sun-scorched wind-swept ledges of limestone cliffs in the Ichang gorge, whence Augustine Henry sent bulbs to Kew in 1889, it rarely exceeded three feet in height and bore only one or two flowers.' The arching habit would seem well adapted to holding the flowers away from the cliffs for visitation by pollinating butterflies (I presume). I believe that L. speciosum var. gloriosoides has exactly the same habit and similar habitat. Woodcock & Stearn also mention var. citrinum, which they report to have arisen at Melrose, Massachusetts, about 1925. Although it would not be given the rank of variety these days, back then the concepts of taxonomic rank had not been clearly formulated and there was no way of expressing the modern concept of cultivar, so various varieties, forms, strains etc were named, often with Latin epithets. So we should not be harsh on the originator of the name. Under the name L. henryi 'Improved' Woodcock & Stearn describe 'A form with a stiffer and more erect stem.... It was raised at Charlotte, Vermont, USA by Messrs Horsford, but a form of rather similar habit has been developed in England by Mr. E.A.Bowles.' With similar habit and flower-shape are several Aurelian hybrid lilies, derived from crossing L. henryi with trumpet lilies. I have one bought as 'Lady Alice' flowering now, with more or less white flowers with a soft apricot central band. Very attractive indeed, and next year I shall move it a few feet so that it flowers in front of the pale blue Clematis 'Prince Charles'. Currently occupying that spot is a bright yellow L. leichtlinii that also makes an effective colour pairing, but 'Lady Alice' and 'Prince Charles' will be a very happy match. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McKenney" > > > I don't see Lilium henryi in gardens often. It has one fault for which > most > gardens will not forgive it: it leans. In fact, long ago E.A. Bowles > accurately compared its habit of growth to that of a Polygonatum. > > I've never seen them, but rigidly upright forms are mentioned in the older > literature. These I would like to have. > > But it was not Lilium henryi itself which prompted this post. The lilies I > want to call attention to are the yellow-flowered forms of Lilium henryi. > These yellow-flowered forms are lumped under the nonsense name Lilium > henryi > var citrinum. I call this a nonsense name because a) there is no wild > population anywhere in the world which corresponds to these > yellow-flowered > plants b) they are of independent origin, i.e. they are not a clone c) > they > are not all alike, a circumstance which corroborates the assumption that > they have independent origins. > From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Jul 28 08:16:15 2006 Message-Id: <000101c6b23f$9de8a0b0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: A neat lily for this time of year Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 08:16:11 -0400 John Grimshaw asked " I wonder if Jim McKenney's covetable library lacks Woodcock & Stearn's 'Lilies of the World' (1950), which I find to be still the most thorough source of information on lilies." Sadly, it does. However, one reason it does is this: the pressure to acquire Woodclck & Stearn more or less evaporated when I acquired a copy of the book which was the prototype for Woodcock & Stearn: that book is the Woodcock & Coutts 1935 Lilies Their Culture and Management. It's always intriguing to compare versions of a work, and the earlier effort is well worth any time spent with it. If someone were to hand you the open book, you could be excused for not being immediately sure which version you were reading: there are many similarities, including many of the illustrations. And there are significant differences. The earlier work includes a very cozy image of tiger lilies in a garden setting. The later work omits this image, no doubt because of the by then growing concern about the role of tiger lilies as a virus reservoir. Those of you who know Woodcock & Stearn might consider seeking out Woodcock & Coutts: it won't be a waste of time! John Grimshaw also mentioned the lily cultivar Lady Alice. I too grow this; the last flowers fell a bit over a week ago. This cultivar (it's grown from seed and varies) is of interest because it, in effect, approximates one of the great events in the history of lilies, the crossing which John mentioned of Lilium henryi with the Chinese trumpets. That line of breeding resulted in the lilies which came to be known as "Aurelians" and provided wonderful garden lilies which can be said to have culminated in Leslie Woodriff's grand clone, 'White Henryi'. Incidentally, this is an old cross: at the end of the nineteenth century, Lilium x kewense emerged as a first try in this direction. It did not prove to be permanent. The next big push came about a quarter century later in France, where Lilium x aurelianense (to use the form of nomenclature popular at the time) was a successful second try along similar lines. Lilium x aurelianense probably resembled Lady Alice in most details. I envy John's acquisition of Lilium leichtlinii. I'm not sure I've ever had this lily. I have had lilies acquired under the name Lilium leichtlinii, but although they approximated the true plant, I suspect that they were not. This Lilium leichtlinii was widely regarded by the older authors as among the most beautiful of lilies. It also illustrates one of the peculiarities of the code of nomenclature: the name Lilium leichtlinii was first applied to a yellow-flowered lily which was almost certainly nothing more than a mutant of the widespread orange-red Lilium known in the past as Lilium maximowiczii. The code requires that we call the species in question Lilium leichtlinii. But the fact is that the yellow-flowered form almost certainly does not correspond to any wild population. The yellow forms are probably nothing more that sporadic mutations which occur in some populations of the orange-red form. So far, so good. But horticulture has its own requirements with respect to nomenclature, and gardeners by and large are interested not in population genetics but in getting the flower they saw in the catalog. As a result, the name Lilium leichtlinii var leichtlinii is often used for the yellow-flowered plants and the name Lilium leichtlinii var maximowiczii is used for the orange-red flowered plants. The irony is that these orange-red flowered plants make up almost the entire population of this species. Many gardeners read the nomenclature to mean that these orange-red flowered plants are a form of the yellow-flowered one. But of course, it is the other way around. I've discussed this in the past on this list, and to me it's a good example of the tail wagging the dog. Thanks, John, for the opportunity to engage in some lily talk. Lilies are, of course, among my favorite plants. I've tried to keep my lily musings to a minimum because lilies are served well on other lists. But it doesn't take much provocation to have me ignore those scruples. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the temperature last night was still over 80 degrees F in the middle of the night. From jshields@indy.net Fri Jul 28 08:59:58 2006 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20060728075632.01b78318@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: C. variabile Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:00:19 -0400 Hi Joe and all, My seeds of Crinum variabile came from Silverhill Seeds in 1997. From 11 seeds, I have 9 plants. They were planted outdoors in the ground in 2000 and 2001, with first blooms following a year or two later. They get normal water here in one spot, close to a greenhouse; in the other, they are in a bed with automatic irrigation 2 or 3 times a week. In both locations, they are planted in highly improved garden soil, but their roots reach down to a clay subsoil. Their natural habitat is in a very arid region, Namaqualand, where what rainfall there is comes in winter; but there, they tend to grow in wet spots. In habitat, C. variabile blooms at end of summer and then the new leaves grow. Here in warm, humid central Indiana, it is deciduous in winter and grows in summer and blooms, fully leafed out, in mid- to late summer (i.e., right now). The flowers open almost pure white, but soon develop a rosy pink coloration with a broad, deeper rose band along the midrib of each tepal. The umbel has about 12 buds, which seem to open 2 or 3 at a time. I suppose the individual flowers last about as long as any other crinum here, but I haven't looked carefully at that. I have uploaded an image to the Florapix Bulbs Gallery at: http://botgard.bio.uu.nl//spgm-1.4.4/index.php?spgmGal=Bulbs&group=Bulbs The plants reach no more than 24 inches (60 cm.) in height, mostly less. Scapes are erect as the first flowers open, but gradually lean. The arching leaves are semi-erect to semi-recumbent, and spread so the plants are about 30 inches (75 cm.) across. The plants are similar in size to C. graminicola and some of my moderate-size C. macowanii, so smaller than bulbispermum and larger than lugardiae. Whereas bulbispermum in the ground here produces channeled leaves 4 to 5 feet long (120 to 150 cm.), variabile's leaves are 24 to 30 inches long (not counting the dead material at the tips). By the way, I agree that C. x-powellii "Album" is a fine plant. One of mine, outdoors in the ground next to the greenhouse, has flowers open now on its fourth scape of the season. A fine cultivar indeed! It's time I propagated this variety. Jim Shields in rainy central Indiana (USA) At 05:42 PM 7/27/2006 -0500, you wrote: >....... >Jim S. reports that C. variabile is hardy and floriferous. I'm curious >about the plants because I have some slowly growing along, from seeds >purchased from Silverhill Seeds. The plants do fine here in Texas, but >seemed to grow better when I put them in large pots and gave them wet feet >from time to time. They also seem like a small species. > >Jim, do you grow in under special conditiosn (e.g., wet feet), or do you >just give it good flowerbed-type care? > >How are the flowers, do they last, or do they fade in heat. > >Cordially, > >Joe >Conroe TX ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jshields@indy.net Fri Jul 28 10:22:37 2006 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20060728102126.01b78548@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Galtonia candicans Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:22:55 -0400 At 08:02 PM 7/27/2006 -0400, Russell Stafford wrote: >Yes -- Jim -- it wintered most years in SW Michigan, in the Lake >Michigan snowbelt (USDA zone 6a). > >Russell Stafford >Odyssey Bulbs Russell, Was the soil pretty sandy there in Michigan? Jim ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From dells@voicenet.com Fri Jul 28 12:32:22 2006 Message-Id: <20060728163222.88CA64C00B@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 123 CLOSED Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 12:32:35 -0400 Packages should go out after the weekend. Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From jshaw@opuntiads.com Fri Jul 28 14:26:56 2006 Message-Id: <000a01c6b273$5ecaa5c0$0902a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: Those Canna Leafrollers Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 13:26:23 -0500 Hi Gang, I suppose that familiarity can breed contempt; for a long time I didn't bother growing cannas because they were such "ordinary" plants from my childhood. However, I've come to learn they are really nice in certain places and used in certain ways. I've had good luck with the one called 'Praetoria' (or 'Bengal Tiger' and maybe some other names) by growing in a large pot (about 16 inches across) that is lined with 3 layers of 4 mil insulation plastic. I filled the pot with soil and put the plant in and it thinks it is in a wonderful bog. But then there are the leafrollers; I know of 2 types, lesser and larger. Perhaps there is an in between size too. After trying Bacillus thuringiensis, and encouraging birds to feed on the things, I tried imidacloprid. It works wonders and seems to last for about 3 months. Maybe the product would last longer in a climate with less rain or heat. I put about 1 cup (per large clump) of the Bayer Advanced lawn granules on the soil around plants in spring, summer, and fall. There are no more problems. Do others out there use imidacloprid? I sometimes hesitate to use anything on some plants if I think they will grow out of a problem, or if I don't mind the problem. But, those leafrollers can quickly turn a canna clump into a sodden, disgusting mess of rot, worm debris, and (or course) worms. By the way, I always check any pesticide at EXTOXNET for toxicity profiles, including danger to groundwater, etc. I encourage all to do the same. EXTOXNET is a great source of information; after you read up you can make informed decisions. LINK: Larger Canna Leafroller http://edis.at.ufl.edu/pdffiles/IN/IN28900.pdf LINK: Lesser Canna Leafroller http://ipm.ncsu.edu/AG136/cater12.html LINK: EXTOXNET http://extoxnet.orst.edu/ Cordially, Joe Hot today in Conroe, some Amarcrinum still blooming and wonderfully fragrant. I don't know their background; they are unnamed plants I've picked up here and there. I love 'em even though they are not as grand as Crinum. From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Fri Jul 28 16:10:22 2006 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060728160743.0428f2a8@pop.earthlink.net> From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Galtonia candicans Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:10:16 -0400 I wouldn't call it sandy, Jim, but it certainly wasn't heavy either. Well-drained loam. Russell At 10:22 AM 7/28/2006, you wrote: >At 08:02 PM 7/27/2006 -0400, Russell Stafford wrote: > >Yes -- Jim -- it wintered most years in SW Michigan, in the Lake > >Michigan snowbelt (USDA zone 6a). > > > >Russell Stafford > >Odyssey Bulbs > >Russell, > >Was the soil pretty sandy there in Michigan? > >Jim > >************************************************* >Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. >P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ >Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA >Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 From putman@pobox.upenn.edu Fri Jul 28 20:47:22 2006 Message-Id: <44CAB008.7050902@pobox.upenn.edu> From: Stephen Putman Subject: Hippeastrum vittatum Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 20:47:04 -0400 I have a few bulbs of this nice vigorous species for sale as I start to cut back on plants prior to trying to fit them all back in the greenhouse before hurricane season. Reply to me on my own e-mail as above. Steve Putman From putman@pobox.upenn.edu Fri Jul 28 20:48:19 2006 Message-Id: <44CAB040.3070006@pobox.upenn.edu> From: Stephen Putman Subject: Hippeastrum neoleopoldii Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 20:48:00 -0400 I have a few bulbs of this particularly beautiful species for sale as I start to cut back on plants prior to trying to fit them all back in the greenhouse before hurricane season. Reply to me on my own e-mail as above. Steve Putman From doji@hawaii.rr.com Sat Jul 29 21:50:48 2006 Message-Id: <004001c6b37a$82d336a0$370ffea9@Gary> From: "Gary" Subject: Seeds Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 15:50:17 -1000 Dear All, Here is a site from Texas Tech University on seed harvesting and storage that is part of a course in propagation methods. Section 2 of this syllabus bears reading, as many of the whys? of producing seeds, their storage, and their planting are addressed quite well. http://www.pssc.ttu.edu/plantprop/syllabus/syllabus.htm I found this reference thanks to a contributor in Silicone Valley, CA, on the clivia-enthusiast site Gary in Hilo, HI From eagle85@flash.net Sun Jul 30 13:50:03 2006 Message-Id: <7EC3A05E-1FF2-11DB-9FAD-00050277B6E6@flash.net> From: Doug Westfall Subject: Scadoxus nutans Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:40:30 -0700 Does any member know how long it takes for Scadoxus nutans to mature and ripen? They set about 2 1/2 to 3 months ago and are not ripe. they are dark green and firm. Doug Westfall From eagle85@flash.net Sun Jul 30 19:52:25 2006 Message-Id: <1D665CA8-2025-11DB-A031-00050277B6E6@flash.net> From: Doug Westfall Subject: Dylan Hannon Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:42:51 -0700 Does anyone know the email address for Dylan Hannon ? Doug Westfall From faeden4444@sbcglobal.net Sun Jul 30 20:12:23 2006 Message-Id: <20060731001221.9213.qmail@web82205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Marilyn Pekasky Subject: Dylan Hannon Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 17:12:21 -0700 (PDT) Last I heard he was working at The Huntington. Send John Trager an email and check to see if he's still there (jtrager@huntington.org). Doug Westfall wrote: Does anyone know the email address for Dylan Hannon ? Doug Westfall _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From eagle85@flash.net Sun Jul 30 23:16:28 2006 Message-Id: <9E2509FC-2041-11DB-98EF-00050277B6E6@flash.net> From: Doug Westfall Subject: Dylan Hannon Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:06:53 -0700 On Sunday, July 30, 2006, at 05:12 PM, Marilyn Pekasky wrote: > Last I heard he was working at The Huntington. Send John Trager an > email and check to see if he's still there (jtrager@huntington.org). Marilyn, Thanks. I believe that it is I found a note that one of the secretaries gave to me about 6 months ago. Doug From msittner@mcn.org Sun Jul 30 23:29:51 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060730202440.02af8fb0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Irises from Spain Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:29:31 -0700 Hi, Thanks to Rafa Díez Domínguez and his friends José Miguel Paneque and Celestino Gelpi and some help from Susan and me, we now have pictures of some irises in the Xiphium subgenus photographed in Spain: Iris filifolia, Iris serontina, Iris xiphium, and Iris xiphium var. lusitanica http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SpanishIrises Mary Sue From faeden4444@sbcglobal.net Sun Jul 30 23:34:24 2006 Message-Id: <20060731033423.13004.qmail@web82203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Marilyn Pekasky Subject: Dylan Hannon Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:34:23 -0700 (PDT) You're welcome. If that doesn't work, call John T. directly at 818/405-2162, or email/phone Steve Hammer, who I KNOW will know Dylan's email address: sphaeroid@juno.com; 760/631-7898. Doug Westfall wrote: On Sunday, July 30, 2006, at 05:12 PM, Marilyn Pekasky wrote: > Last I heard he was working at The Huntington. Send John Trager an > email and check to see if he's still there (jtrager@huntington.org). Marilyn, Thanks. I believe that it is I found a note that one of the secretaries gave to me about 6 months ago. Doug _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jshaw@opuntiads.com Mon Jul 31 18:09:58 2006 Message-Id: <004e01c6b4ee$115ecf00$6501a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: Off Topic: Contact Jay Yourch Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 17:09:58 -0500 Hi Jay, If you are out there send me an email. For some reason my emails to you keep bouncing. Cordially, Joe Shaw Conroe TX