From meneice@att.net Fri Aug 1 00:30:20 2008 Message-Id: <001101c8f38f$4b4316e0$4001a8c0@DF5XS5C1> From: Subject: Scadoxus multiflorus ssp. katherinae Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:30:14 -0700 Griffiths Index of Garden Plants gives the common name "Royal Paint Brush" to S. Puniceus. Maybe this is what the guide was referring to. Sorry you didn't have a better guide - most of them are excellent. Shirley Meneice -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Westfall Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:08 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Scadoxus multiflorus ssp. katherinae "Come to think of it, I saw many Scadoxus multifloras ssp? blooming in the shade at Lotusland in Santa Barbara, CA in early July. They were larger in all respects (inflorescence, scape, and leaves) than the one I grow in a pot. I didn't see a tag, and the guide said that they were "some kind of paint brush. They look like they come from Mars." Dell, Yes, S.m. katherina are somewhat larger and more open. Doug _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From silverhill@yebo.co.za Fri Aug 1 06:40:45 2008 Message-Id: <046801c8f3b9$c53e4170$1400a8c0@server01> From: "Rachel Saunders" Subject: Scadoxus multiflorus ssp. katherinae Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:34:17 +0200 When the skin turns red. Regards Rachel Saunders Silverhill Seeds and Books Tel: +27 21 762 4245 Fax: +27 21 797 6609 PO Box 53108, Kenilworth, 7745 South Africa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Thorne" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Scadoxus multiflorus ssp. katherinae > Hi Doug, > > At which stage is the best time to harvest the seed? > > Regards, > Fred > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of Douglas Westfall > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 7:40 AM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Scadoxus multiflorus ssp. katherinae > > "Jim wrote: "I've often wondered what differences there are between S. > multiflorus multiflorus and S. multiflorus katherinae" > >> From what I've read, it sounds like one is evergreen and one is >> deciduous." > > Doug, what say you? > > Basically, that is true. 75 to 80% of S. m. k hold their leaves and > pseudostem through the year until the "new" is ready to appear. At > that time, the old "dies" away and the "new" starts up. Shortly > thereafter, the "flower spike" appears. The "bulb" of this one is > somewhere between a bulb and a risome. > > Scadoxus multiflorus forms more of a bulb, and it "buries" itself in > the planting medium. DO NOT "OVER WATER" this bulb as it will rot if > overwatered. > > There is also "miniature"/"dwarf" form of S. multiflorus. It is also > more of a bulb, buries itself, and goes completely "dormant". > > I hope this "non-scientific" answer helps to distinguish between the > two. > > Doug > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1584 - Release Date: 7/31/2008 > 12:00 PM > > > From jonathanhutchinson@rhs.org.uk Fri Aug 1 08:10:40 2008 Message-Id: <67FCC990C7597E46BEB7E981870923021BDA10@wismail.rhs.net> From: Subject: Scadoxus multiflorus ssp. katherinae Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 13:10:18 +0100 As your info says it is difficult to come up with comparisons and differences within the two subspecies when one is unable to get the full picture but can only look at the material in ones own collection. Certainly my 'Katherinae' plants have a pretty much evergreen stature and the foliage often takes on a rather block like venation .They always flower when in leaf but have not done so this year. Most of the 'multiflorus' available are of commercial origin but I have managed to get a couple of plants of known wild source, and then one can really start to see the range of form between plants within the same subspecies. My 'multiflorus' are deciduous through the early part of the summer,one form coming up in the autumn.Those that have flowered seem to do so before the foliage appears. Though the heads are of good size they do seem to have less flowers than 'katherinae', maybe flower quantity will increase as the plant becomes older. Although one form is definitely on the bulbous side with regard to its storage organ one form produces good rhizome growth. The leaf growth on some of the 'multiflorus' I have lasts through the winter and then dies down in the spring. Material of one form from the Yemen is very dwarf in growth (unflowered as yet) and is in leaf for quite a short period of time. Maybe growth and amount of growth differs depending on what part of the world they are being expected to perform I doubt many would choose North Devon But I still manage to a few good results. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of John Grimshaw Sent: 31 July 2008 19:34 To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Scadoxus multiflorus ssp. katherinae This is quite a useful note in the Flora of Tropical East Africa (I. Nordal, 1982) account for S. multiflorus: "S. multiflorus subsp. multiflorus is widespread and heterogeneous, occuopying a wide range of habitats. Lack of discontinuity prevents further delimitation. Only in the lowland rainforests of Sierra Leone to Gabon and in the coastal areas from Swaziland to the East Cape is differentiation sharp enough to justify separation of subsp. longitubus and subsp. katherinae respectively. In East Africa [ i.e. Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania] the typical savanna form is slender with flowers before the leaves, the mountain form more robust with flowers and leaves contemporary. Intervening habitats have intermediate forms, and the differences disappear in cultivation." Unfortunately, as is so often the case with regional floras, taxa occurring outside their limits are not described, and the only clue to the distinction of subsp. multiflorus provided by Nordal here is the line "Perianth tube usually less than 1.5 cm long; segments usually narrower than 2.5 mm." The dimensions for the whole species, however, are: perianth tube 0.4-2.6 cm long, segments 0.5-5 mm broad. In the absence of comparable detailed descriptions of South African material it is difficult to define subsp. katherinae but Elsa Pooley's Field Guide to the Wild Flowers of Kwa-Zulu-natal has a go, although not providing strictly comparable descriptions: katharinae: Deciduous, robust, to 1.2 m. Coastal & swamp forest. Lamina c. 350 x 150 mm, pseudostem c. 600 mm, produced before flowers. Inflorescence c. 200 mm diameter, stem c. 650 mm, flower tube c. 22 mm, pedicels c. 45 mm multiflorus: Deciduous, robust, to 1 m. Light shade in bushveld, grassland, coast to 2700 m. Lamina c. 450 x 410 mm, shiny, margins wavy, produced after or with flowers, pseudostem and two reduced leaves speckled red-brown at the base ; Inflorescence round, c. 150 (-260) mm diam, stem speckled towards base; flower tube c. 15 mm, tepal lobes c. 30 mm. So it seems that there are significant morphological differences, and also in habitat. My impression from illustrations (I have not grown katherinae) is that katherinae has a flatter and possibly less densely-flowered inflorescence than the big round ball of multiflorus. Hopefully Jonathan Hutchinson will be able to provide further comments and more details. East African subsp. multiflorus can be essentially evergreen in the wild (and in cultivation) - certainly in the Kilimanjaro forest I frequently saw the new shoot spearing through the pseudostem of the previous year's shoot - this would be more or less prostrate, though still green and active. But the deciduosity of the foliage will depend very much on the site and available moisture. I have seen it flowering (without leaves) in the dry savanna of the Serengeti - where the big balls of flowers are a striking sight - and have to say that I don't think the inflorescences were much, if any, smaller than those from the forest. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Westfall" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Scadoxus multiflorus ssp. katherinae "Jim wrote: "I’ve often wondered what differences there are between S. multiflorus multiflorus and S. multiflorus katherinae" > From what I've read, it sounds like one is evergreen and one is > deciduous." Doug, what say you? Basically, that is true. 75 to 80% of S. m. k hold their leaves and pseudostem through the year until the "new" is ready to appear. At that time, the old "dies" away and the "new" starts up. Shortly thereafter, the "flower spike" appears. The "bulb" of this one is somewhere between a bulb and a risome. Scadoxus multiflorus forms more of a bulb, and it "buries" itself in the planting medium. DO NOT "OVER WATER" this bulb as it will rot if overwatered. There is also "miniature"/"dwarf" form of S. multiflorus. It is also more of a bulb, buries itself, and goes completely "dormant". I hope this "non-scientific" answer helps to distinguish between the two. Doug _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.5.8/1582 - Release Date: 30/07/2008 18:37 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Aug 1 20:59:09 2008 Message-Id: <000901c8f43b$5b49cc30$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Lycoris squamigera Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:01:53 -0400 Lycoris squamigera, which I think of as the flagship of the local oporanthous flora, is blooming now in the greater Washington, D.C. area. Not only are they blooming in my garden, but several friends in nearby northern Virginia have reported bloom. As is usual, plants growing in the shade are blooming before plants growing in sunny spots. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where I might have an exciting Cardiocrinum story for you soon. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From kellso@irvincentral.com Fri Aug 1 21:27:54 2008 Message-Id: <4893B801.5050100@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Lycoris squamigera Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 20:27:29 -0500 About a week and a half ago, we had a strong rain come through the area. It probably lasted only 20 minutes, but dropped almost 3/4" of rain. Last Suturday, while driving into Bentonville, I found two locations with L. squamigera in full bloom. One location was a shady area under a house eave, the whole front of the house having a display, and the other was in full sun, just a clump, right by a ditch. The other usual locations showed no sign of bloom. The day after the rain, I went out to check my Lycoris beds. These beds have about 2" of coarse oak mulch on top. Digging my finger into it, I found that only the first inch of mulch was moist. The rain didn't even make it into the soil in the beds. Well, Wednesday, we were supposed to get another string of storms roll through. I watched the radar and the line ran hundreds of miles south and west of us and hundreds more north and east. Somehow, someway, we did not get a single drop of rain from it, even though I could hear thunder constantly to our southwest. Anyway, before this potential rain event, I had zero L. squamigera flower stalks, a few L. longituba and one L. sanguinea coming up. Because we had no rain, I drip irrigated the Lycoris plots yesterday, which, at this point had one L. squamigera bloom stalk. Today, I have about half a dozen coming up of the L. squamigera and L. longituba. We'll see how it goes. I was hoping for a solid stand of L. squamigera this season, as the foliar stand was good and the bulbs are big. So far, no sauce. Even yesterday, none of the usual stands were coming up in Bentonville, so I am guessing the rain triggered bloom in locations that got excess moisture from roofs or ditches. I wonder if change in atmospheric pressure is involved? I believe we have discussed this before, considering irrigation alone does not appear to always provide the solution. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ Jim McKenney wrote: > Lycoris squamigera, which I think of as the flagship of the local > oporanthous flora, is blooming now in the greater Washington, D.C. area. Not > only are they blooming in my garden, but several friends in nearby northern > Virginia have reported bloom. > > As is usual, plants growing in the shade are blooming before plants growing > in sunny spots. > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone > 7, where I might have an exciting Cardiocrinum story for you soon. > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From dszeszko@gmail.com Sat Aug 2 00:49:14 2008 Message-Id: <9912b0b60808012149o18b653d4m3a0bcb8759ebf9b1@mail.gmail.com> From: "Dennis Szeszko" Subject: In-Situ Mexican bulb pictures Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 23:49:06 -0500 PBS list members: I finally got around to resizing and uploading most of my pictures of Mexican geophytes to the Wiki (everything not in *Orchidaceae*, at least). All of these pictures were taken in-situ in Mexico State over the last 2 rainy seasons. I also made some notes about their native habitats, distributions ranges and flowering times. (One of these days I'll get around to posting the Orchid pictures... there are a mere* *3,000 to choose from.) *Bomarea hirtella* http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Bomarea *Calochortus barbatus* http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesOne#barbatus *Calochortus purpureus*http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesFive#purpureus *Calochortus spatulatus*http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesSix#spatulatus *Milla magnifica *http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Milla *Orthrosanthus exsertus* http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Orthrosanthus *Tigridia augusta * http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tigridia (nomenclature change) *Tigridia vanhouttei* http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tigridia If you have any questions or comments, I'd be glad to reply. -Dennis From silverhill@yebo.co.za Sat Aug 2 08:13:22 2008 Message-Id: <03ba01c8f499$0890a550$1400a8c0@server01> From: "Rachel Saunders" Subject: Scadoxus multiflorus ssp. katherinae Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 14:12:28 +0200 Scadoxus multiflorus ssp katherinae is a large plant that is almost evergreen (ours do go dormant but not for long) and it grows in the shade. It grows in well watered areas of SA. It suckers freely from the base and is usually in clumps. It flowers with the leaves in January (in SA), ie after mid summer. S. multiflorus ssp multiflorus is a small plant, grows in dry to very dry savannah areas in sun, is deciduous, is always solitary, and it flowers with no leaves. We have seen it in flower early in December in SA ie before mid summer. Regards Rachel Saunders Silverhill Seeds and Books Tel: +27 21 762 4245 Fax: +27 21 797 6609 PO Box 53108, Kenilworth, 7745 South Africa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dell Sherk" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Scadoxus multiflorus ssp. katherinae > > > Come to think of it, I saw many Scadoxus multiflorus ssp? blooming in the > shade at Lotusland in Santa Barbara, CA in early July. They were larger in > all respects (inflorescence, scape, and leaves) than the one I grow in a > pot. I didn't see a tag, and the guide said that they were "some kind of > paint brush. They look like they come from Mars." She also rushed us > through > the cactus and succulent areas, very impressive collections, because she > didn't like cactus. > > Dell > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1584 - Release Date: 7/31/2008 > 12:00 PM > > > From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sat Aug 2 15:37:36 2008 Message-Id: <4894B77F.3050604@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Crossley Subject: Zephyranthes Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 07:37:35 +1200 I am growing various Zephyranthes, a few from seeds, for the rest ones I have acquired with great difficulty here in New Zealand. I would love some seeds from Zephyranthes Katherinae if anyone has any. Ina Crossley From dells@voicenet.com Sun Aug 3 15:25:27 2008 Message-Id: <20080803192520.0D18E4C01C@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 179 Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 15:22:50 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 145" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Roy Herold: Bulbs, bulblets, bulbils: 1. Narcissus zaianicus lutescens x cantabricus (SF379) Ex RF Beeston via AGS seedex. Nice light yellow. Only a few. 2. Narcissus romieuxii 'Treble Chance' (JCA805) From a friend in Belgium. Not from seed, so should be the real thing. One of the first to bloom here in November. Only a few. 3. Narcissus 'Pick of the Litter' I made a *lot* of controlled crosses in the winter of 2004, and the bees helped a bit with the late ones after the pots went outside. There were seed pods on everything, but due to lack of time they got harvested randomly and dumped into one bucket. Seeds were planted in the fall of 2004, and the resulting offspring started to bloom last winter. There were some real winners, better than any of the parents, but I had a lot of extras after repotting this summer. Speaking of parents, they include most of the good/great types of romieuxii, cantabricus, bulbocodium, zaianicus, tananicus, monophyllus, filifolius, tenuifolius, petunioides, albidus, mesatlanticus, Hat, foliosus, citrinus, rifanus, genuinus, nivalis, obesus, lost labels, and combinations thereof. Enjoy! 4. Iphieon uniflorum 'Album' Named as received from a seed exchange, bloomed in 9 months, with colors ranging from near white to light blue, all with a contrasting blue stripe down the center of the petal. 5. Leucojum (Acis) nicaeense Ex Ruksans. Set plenty of seed, but dropped them before I could harvest. You get bulbs instead. 6. Leucojum (Acis) autumnale Ex WeDu, I think. Almost hardy here. 7. Lachenalia bulbifera Ex Richard Doutt. Big and gaudy. 8. Oxalis polyphylla v. heptaphylla Ex Matt Mattus. From Jim Shields: 9. Seeds from my own Haemanthus montanus, since several pots bloomed together on my deck in June. Not hand pollinated, but no other Haemanthus species were in bloom at the same time. The parent bulbs came from Dawie Human in Bloemfontein, South Africa. 10. Seeds (germinating) of Haemanthus amarylloides polyanthus 11. Four-yr old seedling bulbs of Cybistetes longifolia. The seeds came from Silverhill Seeds in 2004. From Alberto Castillo: SEED: 12. Cypella herbertii, superb form 13. Freesia laxa red and white, a mixture of a robust form and the usual one 14. Moraea polyanthos From Mary Sue Ittner: BULBS: 15. Freesia fucata early blooming for me, (November, December) - fragrant, few 16. Oxalis assinia from Bill Baird, still hasn't bloomed for me 17. Oxalis bowiei This made the favorite pink category of a couple of us. This is a fall blooming, tall, big gorgeous plant. 18. Oxalis caprina fall blooming, purple flowers, bloomed for me last August until November 19. Oxalis commutata -South Africa, winter growing, fall blooming, tiny succulent leaves and lavender-pink flowers with a strong scent like talcum powder. 20. Oxalis engleriana -South African, fall blooming, linear leaves 21. Oxalis flava yellow, winter growing, fall blooming 22. Oxalis flava? (Uli 69) -- bluish gray palmate leaves, grew in seasonally moist soil in heavy clay on the Nieuwoudville plateau. 23. Oxalis flava (lupinifolia) -- lupine like leaves and pink flowers, fall blooming 24. Oxalis flava (pink) -- leaves low to ground, attractive, last year some of the flowers were also yellow (along with the pink), not sure what happened as they have been pink before 25. Oxalis hirta (mauve) received from Ron Vanderhoff, definitely a different color from the pink ones I grow, really pretty, fall blooming 26. Oxalis hirta (pink) From South Africa, blooms late fall, early winter, bright pink flowers. Increases rapidly. does better for me in deep pot 27. Oxalis hirta (yellow) (acquired from Telos as O. namaquana which it is not) 28. Oxalis imbricata -recycled from the BX. Finally bloomed for me last year with pink flowers even though Cape Plants says the flowers are white. The one shown on the web that everyone grows has hairy leaves, pink flowers 29. Oxalis livida - fall blooming (if it blooms), narrow divided leaves 30. Oxalis luteola MV 5567 60km s of Clanwilliam. 1.25" lt yellow flrs, darker ctr. This one has been very reliable for me in Northern California 31. Oxalis MV4674 not sure what species this one is. Collected by Michael Vassar as 16km north into Sweekspoort, South Africa, was described by him as a tiny tufted plant with tiny leaves. It has pink flowers and blooms in the fall. 32. Oxalis melanosticta 'Ken Aslet' -- finally bloomed for me last year for the first time, but mainly grown for its hairy soft leaves 33. Oxalis namaquana, Uli 54 we decided these were probably O. namaquana. I loved the bright yellow blooms in winter. Understood why I saw them bloom in mass in a wet year in Namaqualand as they offset a lot into tiny bulbs 34. Oxalis obtusa (coral) 35. Oxalis obtusa (peach) 36. Oxalis obtusa (pink) 37. Oxalis obtusa (pink) -- grey green leaves, this one expands rapidly, but also blooms a long time 38. Oxalis obtusa MV 4719d -- S of Laingsburg. 1? pale coppery pink, creamy center, dark veins, dark ctr ring. 39. Oxalis obtusa MV5005A 10km n of Matjiesfontein. Red-orange. 40. Oxalis obtusa MV 5051 Vanrhynshoek. 2" lt copper-orange, darker veining, yellow ctr. 41. Oxalis obtusa MV 5516 7.5km s of Nieuwodtville. 1.25" lt yellow flrs above lvs. 42. Oxalis obtusa MV 6235 W. of Sutherland. 1.5" copper flrs, greenish ctr. Tiny lvs. 43. Oxalis obtusa MV 6341 Nieuwoudtville. 1.5" bright yellow. Tight, compact plants. 44. Oxalis obtusa MV 7085 Deep coppery-pink, yellow throat 45. Oxalis palmifrons -grown for the leaves, mine have never flowered, but the leaves I like, supposedly has a better chance of blooming if planted deeply 46. Oxalis polyphylla var heptaphylla MV6396 Vanrhynsdorp. Succulent thread-like leaves. Winter growing, blooms fall 47. Oxalis purpurea (white) winter growing, long blooming, but beware of planting in the ground in a Mediterranean climate unless you don't care if it takes over as it expands dramatically, a lot. 48. Oxalis purpurea 'Skar' originally from Bill Baird, finally bloomed for me last year for a long time, pink flowers 49. Oxalis versicolor --lovely white with candy stripe on back, winter blooming 50. Oxalis zeekoevleyensis blooms early fall, lavender flowers, plant now as is already forming roots From Cynthia Mueller: SEED: 51. Dyckia crosses between reddish & silver. "Coke-bottle" green, prickly, small pineapple, like primitive bromeliads that can stay outside in the teens(F)for short periods. Flower spikes with orange or yellow flowers. 52. Crinum 'White Queen' open-pollinated. From tissue-cultured plant. 53. Crinum scabrum 54. Cooperia drumondii ?. "Giant Prairie Lily" 55. Habranthus tubispathus texanus 56. Zephyranthes katherinae, usually red, but sometimes yellow. Thank you, Roy, Jim, Alberto, Mary Sue, and Cynthia !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From dells@voicenet.com Mon Aug 4 13:18:23 2008 Message-Id: <20080804171823.50B094C014@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 179 CLOSED Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:17:10 -0400 This one will take me a while. ;<)) Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Mon Aug 4 13:20:31 2008 Message-Id: <48973A5F.7000002@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: "The Bulb Garden" Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:20:31 -0700 From tversted@email.dk Mon Aug 4 13:44:47 2008 Message-Id: <015501c8f659$c8279a60$0200000a@PC202395843122> From: "Martin Tversted" Subject: Crinum kunthianum Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 19:44:44 +0200 I was given a specimen of Crinum kunthianum 8 months ago or so. It seems to like it wet but an attemp to grow it in the greenhouse this summer didnt seem to suite it. I would like some advice about it; how to grow it during the year. I would also like to know more about where the species is distributed and what habitat it comes from. I assume it comes from a very wet habitat? Best regards Martin Tversted Denmark http://www.northern-nursery.dk/ From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Mon Aug 4 13:49:28 2008 Message-Id: <48974129.9060603@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: "The Bulb Garden" Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:49:29 -0700 Sorry if this is a duplicate. The previous send arrived blank at my mailbox. The July issue of the Bulb Garden is on its way to you. It's a great issue. Our lead article, written by Roy Sachs, is all about Alstroemeria. There are several other articles and many pictures to explore! Jennifer Hildebrand (my co-editor) and I hope you enjoy it as much as we enjoy putting it together. This is one of the PBS membership benefits, so if you are not a current PBS member, you are missing a treat. We are already at work on the November issue, and I think you will enjoy Jane McGary's article on her tour of Greece. She has graciously sent so many excellent flower photos, we are having a difficult time selecting which to use. And, of course, this is the time for my quarterly request for you to write an article. Without your contributions, there would be a very minimal newsletter. Please consider writing about your garden. Any topic related to bulbs-rhizomes-corms is suitable. Write about your garden design, a special garden spot you enjoy, a favorite genus and its culture. We also use descriptions of public gardens and book reviews. Please e-mail me if you want details about size, etc. And, do please respond if I write asking that you volunteer to write something. Marguerite Please e-mail Arnold Trachtenberg (arnold@nj.rr.com) if you are a current PBS member and do not receive your copy by the end of this week. Please let Pat Colville (Pat.Colville@JHResearchUSA.com) know if your address or membership year is not correct or your membership needs to be renewed. From leo@possi.org Mon Aug 4 19:34:18 2008 Message-Id: <26202.209.180.132.162.1217892843.squirrel@possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: In-Situ Mexican bulb pictures Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:34:03 -0700 (MST) Dennis, thanks for sending those Milla magnifica and other seeds to the BX. And thanks, Dell, for doing such a huge job. I knew I would be out of town most of June, so I didn't sow my Milla until July 20. The first one sprouted Saturday August 2nd and when I left for work this morning (Monday the 4th) there were a total of 5 up. Interesting how they emerge with a hair-pin curve, a the slightly thicker red stem pointing up and the bright green leaf pointing down. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 Dennis Szeszko wrote > I finally got around to resizing and uploading most of my pictures of > Mexican geophytes to the Wiki (everything not in *Orchidaceae*, at least). > All of these pictures were taken in-situ in Mexico State over the last 2 > rainy seasons. I also made some notes about their native habitats, > distributions ranges and flowering times. (One of these days I'll get > around to posting the Orchid pictures... there are a mere* *3,000 to > choose > from.) > > *Bomarea hirtella* > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Bomarea > > *Calochortus barbatus* > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesOne#barbatus > > *Calochortus > purpureus*http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesFive#purpureus > > *Calochortus > spatulatus*http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesSix#spatulatus > > *Milla magnifica > *http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Milla > > *Orthrosanthus exsertus* > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Orthrosanthus > > *Tigridia augusta * > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tigridia (nomenclature > change) > > *Tigridia vanhouttei* > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tigridia > > If you have any questions or comments, I'd be glad to reply. > > -Dennis > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 14:12:28 +0200 > From: "Rachel Saunders" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Scadoxus multiflorus ssp. katherinae > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Message-ID: <03ba01c8f499$0890a550$1400a8c0@server01> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Scadoxus multiflorus ssp katherinae is a large plant that is almost > evergreen (ours do go dormant but not for long) and it grows in the shade. > It grows in well watered areas of SA. It suckers freely from the base and > is usually in clumps. It flowers with the leaves in January (in SA), ie > after mid summer. > S. multiflorus ssp multiflorus is a small plant, grows in dry to very dry > savannah areas in sun, is deciduous, is always solitary, and it flowers > with > no leaves. We have seen it in flower early in December in SA ie before > mid > summer. > > Regards > Rachel Saunders > Silverhill Seeds and Books > Tel: +27 21 762 4245 > Fax: +27 21 797 6609 > PO Box 53108, > Kenilworth, > 7745 South Africa > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dell Sherk" > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 7:48 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Scadoxus multiflorus ssp. katherinae > > >> >> >> Come to think of it, I saw many Scadoxus multiflorus ssp? blooming in >> the >> shade at Lotusland in Santa Barbara, CA in early July. They were larger >> in >> all respects (inflorescence, scape, and leaves) than the one I grow in a >> pot. I didn't see a tag, and the guide said that they were "some kind of >> paint brush. They look like they come from Mars." She also rushed us >> through >> the cactus and succulent areas, very impressive collections, because she >> didn't like cactus. >> >> Dell >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1584 - Release Date: >> 7/31/2008 >> 12:00 PM >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 67, Issue 3 > ********************************** > From crinum@libero.it Wed Aug 6 08:10:32 2008 Message-Id: <31517420.517861218024610621.JavaMail.root@wmail28> From: Alberto Grossi Subject: Crinum nobile Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 14:10:10 +0200 (CEST) Hi All, who can help me with this Crinum? Anyone has the first description (Crinum nobile Hort. ex Gentil Pl. Cult. Serres Jard. Bot. Brux. 65 (1907)? It is a synonym of C. jagus, but as far I know jagus is white, when nobile is creamy white suffused with purple rose on the outer surface of the segments. Does anyone grow it? Anyone has different notices? Thank you Alberto From alessandro.marinohob@alice.it Wed Aug 6 08:20:00 2008 Message-Id: <002c01c8f7be$bab685b0$2701a8c0@microsof9092fb> From: "alessandro.marinello" Subject: Crinum nobile Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 14:19:52 +0200 e' in vendita, o ti stai informando? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alberto Grossi" To: "PBS Forum" Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 2:10 PM Subject: [pbs] Crinum nobile > Hi All, who can help me with this Crinum? Anyone has the first description > (Crinum nobile Hort. ex Gentil > Pl. Cult. Serres Jard. Bot. Brux. 65 (1907)? It is a synonym of C. jagus, > but as far I know jagus is white, when nobile is > creamy white suffused with purple rose on the outer surface of the > segments. > Does anyone grow it? Anyone has different notices? > Thank you > > Alberto > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Wed Aug 6 11:46:52 2008 Message-Id: <000d01c8f7db$9d56f780$25196f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: Lycoris aurea Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 08:46:38 -0700 Just posted a photo of L. aurea (the true one that came from James Waddick). www.thebulbmaven.com. Has anyone more success than I do in getting Lycoris to flower in containers? I get flowers (obviously), but not that many or that often. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs www.telsorarebulbs.com From Chad.Schroter@sandisk.com Wed Aug 6 11:48:50 2008 Message-Id: <969A00CE5A93A24A850B6330DA6C57B11F3A40@MILEXMIPV6.sdcorp.global.sandisk.com> From: "Chad Schroter" Subject: Oxalis rubra - white form ? Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 08:49:11 -0700 I was re-reading one of my older ('94) Pacific Horticulture mags, an article on Oxalis had a picture of both white and pink flowered O. rubra growing together. I like way the O. rubra behaves in the garden - the large rhizomes are easy to find and it pretty much stay's put... So I tried to locate a source for the white form on the web... No luck.. In fact I can't find any reference to rubra white or alba... I suppose the white could have been another species - regnellii comes to mind - anyone have ideas ? Chad Schroter Gardening in Los Gatos, California From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Aug 6 15:05:12 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Lycoris report - 1 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 14:06:21 -0500 Dear Friends, With all the reports about Lycoris blooming - it is the season. Just starting here too with L. squamigera leading the pack. We had a lot of rain this spring - way over the average and I think this has bulked up the bulbs as we are getting multiple stems per bulb and very tall stalks. I have a few L. longituba just starting up and the tallest stalk has topped out just prior to bloom at 40 inches to the base of the inflorescence. Add 4-5 inches to the peak. This is exception, but a number of other stalks are easily 36 inches, also very tall. After a week and 1/2 of no rain, there's a big rain storm predicted for tonight. So I expect to see a flurry of activity in a week or less. So far there's bloom or stalks on L . squamigera, longituba. sprengeri, L. chinensis and some hybrids. Usually L. sanguinea is the first to show, but no sign yet. It was badly hurt in April '07 late killer freezes so may still be set back. Incidentally, Diana, Lycoris are very poor bloomers in pots. I feel lucky to get a single bloom per pot. A friend on the East Coast has better bloom, but they have a lot more rain and I assume this makes all the difference. They can take / appreciate a LOT of water in spring maybe even sitting in water as I have seen in the wild in China for a couple species. Last year's freeze damaged all Lycoris foliage very badly and this year we had no damages and lots of rain, but buds are formed in the previous fall as I recall so they might still be light due to last year's damages. I'll report more in 'part 2' Meanwhile enjoying the show. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Aug 6 15:47:59 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Crinums Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 14:13:26 -0500 Dear Friends, I was gone for week to visit Atlanta and much impressed by the streets lined with a variety of crepe myrtles. What a show! Surprised on returning home at the number and variety of Crinum still blooming and blooming for the first time. Super Ellen is on its third stalk and still dazzling. Crinum x powellii are mostly done except for selection including 'Nestor's Pink'. 'Cecil Houdyshel" and one labelled from Les Hannibal. This last Crinum has not bloomed before. I think it was passed along after Les' garden was dug and bulbs distributed. The flowers are a pale pink and the most fragrant hardy crinum as I reported before. I thought it was an x powellii type, but now that the flowers have faded, there are seeds forming. Sort of a surprise since this should be nearly totally sterile. Even C. scabrum is putting up a new stalk and a few x powellii, but minor. These crinum continue to impress me with their sturdiness, hardiness and vigor. A shame they are not seen more in gardens around here. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From toadlily@olywa.net Wed Aug 6 16:52:50 2008 Message-Id: <489A0F29.3010203@olywa.net> From: Laura & Dave Subject: "The Bulb Garden" Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:52:57 -0700 I just received the latest "The Bulb Garden", and I am very impressed. This obviously took a lot of thought and work. There is a nice blend of information; should be something for everyone! Thanks to all who had a hand in producing the newsletter !! Dave Brastow, 7A, Tumwater, Washington From rherold@yahoo.com Wed Aug 6 17:04:21 2008 Message-Id: <489A11BA.6040907@yahoo.com> From: Roy Herold Subject: Narcissus Fly: When is it safe? Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:03:54 -0400 I had a terrible time with narcissus fly getting into my pots of cyrtanthus when they were outside last summer (2007), so this year I put them in a coldframe covered with a screen (window type). Thinking that the danger of fly infestation was passed, I took the screen off a couple of weeks ago, mainly because flower scapes were running into it. Did I take it off too soon? Or could I have removed it much earlier, and if so, when? The cyrtanthus really seem to have thrived in the screened environment, irrespective of whether it kept the flies off. It gave a little extra shade, and a bit of protection from the incessant thunderstorms we have been having this summer. Lots of bloom, even on the 'difficult' C. tuckii. --Roy Northwest of Boston 8" of rain in July!! From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Wed Aug 6 17:50:04 2008 Message-Id: <13646711.1218059404079.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: Narcissus Fly: When is it safe? Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 16:50:03 -0500 (GMT-05:00) > >Did I take it off too soon? Or could I have removed it much earlier, and >if so, when? Hi Roy: When I lived in Northwest Connecticut, both narcissus fly species in our area had, in most years, laid their eggs by the end of May, most certainly by the middle of June. But the Cyrtanthus species were also highly susceptible to mealy bugs, so I settled on a regime that included an Imadicloprine drench twice a year. Best, Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 7b-8 From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Thu Aug 7 09:07:09 2008 Message-Id: <000701c8f88e$78554dc0$25196f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: Oxalis rubra - white form ? Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 06:06:56 -0700 Could be the white form of O. crassipes which is available from some suppliers. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs www.telosrarebulbs.com > > I was re-reading one of my older ('94) Pacific Horticulture > mags, an article on Oxalis had a picture of both white and pink flowered > O. rubra growing together. I like way the O. rubra behaves in the garden > - the large rhizomes are easy to find and it pretty much stay's put... > So I tried to locate a source for the white form on the web... No luck.. > In fact I can't find any reference to rubra white or alba... > > I suppose the white could have been another species - regnellii > comes to mind - anyone have ideas ? > > Chad Schroter > Gardening in Los Gatos, California > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From benechin@yahoo.com Thu Aug 7 15:22:30 2008 Message-Id: <64686.24386.qm@web90608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Patrick Troy Subject: Scilla forcing Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Has anyone much experience with SCilla peruviana forcing. I have a mostly white and blue colelction of the compact types with corymb heads that flower reliably in February in California. For some reason this year I've had poorer flowering results. Does anyone have references I could read on this? From arnold@nj.rr.com Thu Aug 7 16:11:30 2008 Message-Id: <489B5698.1080506@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Narcissus fly Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:10:00 -0400 Iain: Here is a link to the scientific name. Arnold http://www.insectimages.org/browse/subimages.cfm?SUB=7944 From msittner@mcn.org Thu Aug 7 17:03:45 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080807135419.0359cef8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Narcissus fly Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:57:47 -0700 Dear Iain, We have a wiki page devoted to this with information and photos that were contributed from at least three members from across the pond so it obviously is a problem in Ireland and the United Kingdom. Does anyone know whether this fly is interested in bulbs from any other family besides Amaryllidaceae? http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusBulbFly Mary Sue From johannes-ulrich-urban@T-Online.de Thu Aug 7 18:24:35 2008 Message-Id: <1KRDu9-19Lup00@fwd33.aul.t-online.de> From: "Uli Urban" Subject: "The Bulb Garden" Date: 07 Aug 2008 21:44 GMT Dear All, Not having contributed for a long time in this list does not mean I retired from bulbs..... on the contrary. I am dead-busy to at last get the garden and house finished after some major changes, tired of "pioneer works" I really do understand that this might also mean we have a new President.... So "The Bulb Garden" came as a nice break and I must say thank you to all the contributors. It is so well written and so full of unusual and never-heard-before information. I have always been fond of Alstroemerias but was not sucessful with them except a weedy A.aurea but this one succumbed to the building activities in the garden....... I will for sure come back to these plants once everything is settled here. The article on Wave Hill Garden made me feel like hopping into a plane to have a look myself...... America with its warmer summers for sure has things to offer garden wise which I have never seen as yet...... Also very useful to know at last how to distinguish Cyclamen hederifolium and C. graecum, honestly I always thought it is the same species because I cannot see any difference between two flowering plants. I grow both so next time I will watch out where exactly the fruit stalk curls. Also very useful to read which Cyclamen grows on which soil, this might explain some failure...... It is an interesting solution to that terrible space problem just to buy twenty extra acres...... but can you guys let us all know how you solve the TIME-problem? Thank you all very much! Uli from Germany 35°C here today with heavy thunderstorms and heave rain From rvanderhoff@sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 8 00:55:59 2008 Message-Id: <342295.7361.qm@web81006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ron Vanderhoff Subject: Oxalis rubra - white form ? Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 21:55:57 -0700 (PDT) Chad, "Oxalis rubra" is one of the most confused plants in an already confused genus, Oxalis.   The plant you are probably asking about is probably best called Oxalis articulata ssp. rubra f. crassipes, although you will find this plant listed under a dozen or more different names. These might include Oxalis rubra 'Alba', Oxalis rubra 'White', Oxalis crassipes, Oxalis crassipes 'White', Oxalis articulata 'Alba', Oxalis articulata 'White' and many others.   Dr. Alicia Loureig's (deceased) paper in Phytologia (1982) on Oxalis Section Articulatae attempted to straighten out some of the confusion. It is from this paper that the correct name of Oxalis articulata ssp. rubra f. crassipes was established. In this paper she also indicated that the white flowered version of this Oxalis was described from a plant cultivated in Germany as from "South America".  Lourteig considers this plant a white-flowered mutation that has been maintained only in cultivation.  The stylar length can either be short or medium.   For a supplier of this plant, I think you'll find a few sources if you try some of the synonyms above, especially using the term "crassipes" in your search. Be aware that this white flowered version has somewhat smaller flowers than the rose-pink plants that you are probably familiar with. I also suggest that you hunt for one of the soft pink forms, which are especially attractive. Ron Vanderhoff Sunny Southern California where Oxalis grow easily ----- Original Message ---- From: Chad Schroter To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:49:11 AM Subject: [pbs] Oxalis rubra - white form ?     I was re-reading one of my older ('94) Pacific Horticulture mags, an article on Oxalis had a picture of both white and pink flowered O. rubra growing together. I like way the O. rubra behaves in the garden - the large rhizomes are easy to find and it pretty much stay's put... So I tried to locate a source for the white form on the web... No luck.. In fact I can't find any reference to rubra white or alba...     I suppose the white could have been another species - regnellii comes to mind - anyone have ideas ? Chad Schroter Gardening in Los Gatos, California _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kellso@irvincentral.com Fri Aug 8 06:57:33 2008 Message-Id: <489C2689.4040105@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Narcissus fly - organic control? Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 05:57:13 -0500 Mary Sue: I scanned through the article, which is very helpful. I seem to have heard somewhere or read somewhere that vegetable oils can be used as a spot spray on the foliage base to help with control... As a matter of fact, I just found an article that refers to canola oil and pyrethrins as a drench, "http://davesgarden.com/guides/bf/go/2436/", but I know this is not the source I have in vague memory. Anybody had any experience fighting the Narcissus fly organically? Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Dear Iain, > > We have a wiki page devoted to this with information and photos that were > contributed from at least three members from across the pond so it > obviously is a problem in Ireland and the United Kingdom. Does anyone know > whether this fly is interested in bulbs from any other family besides > Amaryllidaceae? > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusBulbFly > > Mary Sue From tversted@email.dk Fri Aug 8 09:55:49 2008 Message-Id: <000a01c8f95e$75653c30$0200000a@PC202395843122> From: "Martin Tversted" Subject: Kniphofia collectors Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 15:55:46 +0200 I would like to get in touch with other Kniphofia collectors and hybridizers for exchange of plant material and cultivation experience. I have a collection here in Denmark of around 100 species and hybrids. If you are interested please contact me at tversted at email.dk Martin Tversted Zone 7b http://www.northern-nursery.dk/ From msittner@mcn.org Fri Aug 8 11:13:15 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080808075824.035b5e40@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Scilla peruviana and searching the archives Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 08:12:47 -0700 Dear Patrick, We have discussed Scilla peruviana in the past a number of times as people have written with the same question that you have. It has a reputation for skipping seasons of bloom. This has been true in my garden, but apparently is not true for everyone. I think in one spot of my garden it just got too shady. Some people have suggested that it needs a dry period in summer to do well. It gets that in my garden but still does not bloom every year. Here was another suggestion from the past: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2006-April/024919.html By the way for all those of you who are new to our list and for those of you who have forgotten the formula for searching the archives in Google is found on the Pacific Bulb Society web site. It is: +[pbs] [search terms] site:lists.ibiblio.org Google indexes all the posts from ibiblio lists. Unfortunately you can't search from the archives for them, but you can search from Google. In the Google box put in the formula above and substitute whatever you want to find for "search terms". You may get previous and next posts in the list of messages you get, but you will also get the most relevant posts. In this case you would put the following in the google search box if you wanted to find previous posts about Scilla peruviana: +[pbs] [Scilla peruviana] site:lists.ibiblio.org Mary Sue From kellso@irvincentral.com Fri Aug 8 12:07:30 2008 Message-Id: <489C6F33.8020200@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Hippeastrum 'Scarlet Baby' Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:07:15 -0500 I've been trying to re-acquire 'Scarlet Baby' for a few years now, but nobody seems to offer it for sale anymore. If anybody on the list knows of a source, or could be a source, I would appreciate it if you would contact me at, "kellso att irvincentral dawt com". I'm just trying to get one blooming size bulb, but offsets would be fine. Thanks. -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ From totototo@telus.net Fri Aug 8 12:48:55 2008 Message-Id: <19740414223344.44E90526312CFED4@priv-edmwaa15.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Narcissus flies Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 09:41:00 -0700 The large narcissus fly is Merodon equistris. There are at least two species of "lesser narcissus fly", Eumerus strigatus and E. tuburculatus. The online literature, last time I checked, was rather vague on the subject, but it appears that other species of both Merodon and Eumerus also attack amaryllidaceous bulbs. Mary Sue asked if narcissus flies attack non-amaryllidaceous bulbs. The received wisdom is that they will but only opportunistically when they can't find anything tastier to munch on. I have seen them myself in a bulb of a potted garden hyacinth. See for more information: http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/homehort/pest/bulbflies.htm -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@telus.net Fri Aug 8 12:48:55 2008 Message-Id: <19740415012840.DE1F0517310CE482@priv-edmwaa15.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Narcissus Fly: When is it safe? Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 09:41:00 -0700 On 6 Aug 08, at 17:03, Roy Herold wrote: > I had a terrible time with narcissus fly getting into my pots of cyrtanthus > when they were outside last summer (2007), so this year I put them in a > coldframe covered with a screen (window type). Thinking that the danger of > fly infestation was passed, I took the screen off a couple of weeks ago, > mainly because flower scapes were running into it. > > Did I take it off too soon? Or could I have removed it much earlier, and > if so, when? Here (Victoria, BC, Canada), narcissus flies first appear in early May when we finally start getting some warmth in the air. They're on the wing until July, and I'm pretty sure I've seen a few even late in July. They're easy enough to control with insecticidal drenches; they're just flies. But since the only insecticides available now are non-persistent, you have to keep drenching and drenching and drenching for several months. I can't be bothered, and I don't like the idea of pouring lots of insecticide (even if it's non-persistent) on my garden, so I don't bother. Imidaproclide is too toxic to other insects to be considered, even if it were readily available here for insecticidal use. Screened frames are definitely the way to go if your area is infested with narcissus fly and you want to grow amaryllidaceous bulbs they attack. You can also wrap subject plants in Reemay cloth or even kitchen cheesecloth. I'm surprised the pesticide industry hasn't come up with a pheromone attractant for narcissus flies so they could be trapped. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@telus.net Fri Aug 8 12:48:56 2008 Message-Id: <19740415012840.348E0627393C9DBF@priv-edmwaa15.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Scilla peruviana Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 09:41:00 -0700 Scilla peruviana seems to require fairly specific environmental conditions to flower consistently. I have a long-established patch of it that flowers and sets modest amounts of seed every year. Yet some 60 miles away on Vancouver's North Shore, Scilla peruviana will not flower, according to complaints published in the Bulletin of the Alpine Garden Club of BC. My own planting is at the foot of the south wall of my white stucco house, in full sun, fairly heavy soil, but not one of those horrible sticky gumbo marine clays so common in Victoria. It goes bone dry in summer and gets only natural precipitation: some rain in fall and spring, heaviest rain November through February. Temperatures are moderate. Wintertime temperature hovers at 42F day and night, with occasional swings both colder and (more rarely) warmer. In summer, a day over 70F is a warm day, but reflected sunlight makes the planting something of a hot spot. Wintertime drainage is fairly good as the planting is only a meter from my house; the perimeter drains work efficiently, and backfill around the foundation seems to be more permeable than the native soil further out in the garden. The planting is next to a concrete walk, so there may be signfiicant lime in the soil. For details of temperature and weather at Victoria, see http://worldweather.wmo.int/056/c00620.htm Unfortunately, I am unable to find any climatic data for North Vancouver, so a verbal description is necessary. Being on a windward mountain slope, North Vancouver gets signficiantly more rainfall than Victoria, the amount increasing with altitude. I believe it is both wetter and cloudier in summer, colder in winter, and probably about the same temperature in summer. The key factors seem to be (1) not just full sunshine, but reflected light and warmth from the house wall; (2) totally dry summers; (3) some protection from the worst of winter cold, by virtue both of proximity to the house and the shelter it offers from icy north & northeast winds. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From JFlintoff@aol.com Fri Aug 8 12:56:29 2008 Message-Id: <8CAC78EC63A8FE9-A44-AFC@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com> From: jflintoff@aol.com Subject: Narcissus fly Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 12:56:02 -0400 ??? I recall reading somewhere?that the narcissus fly can rarely attack lilies, Dutch iris and a few others but as Jane writes they prefer the Amaryllidaceae. ?? One organic method of control is planting the bulbs in the shade where the flies are far less likely to lay their eggs.? I have some diatomaceous earth that I am planning to try next year as a deterrent for bulbs that require full son.? Removing the dying foliage and filling up the holes where the scape and foliage was is supposed to help also. J. John Flintoff Lake Forest Park,Washington,USA Zone 8 From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Aug 8 13:11:06 2008 Message-Id: <003f01c8f979$7f43adc0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Hippeastrum 'Scarlet Baby' Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 13:09:18 -0400 This is too funny. I’ve been trying to find a source for this one, too. Years ago I was sent a bulb of this cultivar gratis. I grow only a few Hippeastrum now, mostly plants acquired as gifts. I’m not really a Hippeastrum person, and if I were to grow any more they would have to be fragrant. But ‘Scarlet Baby’ made a big impression. Despite the hilarious name (“You didn’t check the water temperature before you put the baby in the bath?” Or “You put habeñeros in the baby formula?”), it’s a very handsome small flowered cultivar. At about the same time I got mine, a friend got one too. I remember her showing me the nice nest of fat bulbs she had been able to raise in only a season or two. I eventually lost mine, and have been looking for a replacement since. So if someone knows of a source, please let us all know. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where Iris dichotoma is blooming (or will be in about three hours). My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From idavide@sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 8 13:35:29 2008 Message-Id: <460392.40285.qm@web81008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Scilla peruviana Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 10:35:28 -0700 (PDT) My Scilla peruviana has been thriving for years here in the Bay Area.  It’s due to plain dumb luck.  It was many years ago – I saw some sad looking, already sprouting, unwanted bulbs at OSH.  Feeling sorry for them, I took them home and potted them up.  I knew nothing about how to grow them.  They flowered late February, and I kept watering them until the leaves yellowed in June.  Next October green sprouts appeared, so I started watering again.  They have flowered every year since.  The regimen is simple: while green, they get watered; otherwise not.  I water them with a weak solution of fertilizer and micro nutrients.  I do keep them in a mostly sunny spot.  This spring they had a poor flowering and did not produce seed, but that may be because I was away and unable to care for them. David Ehrlich From info@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org Thu Aug 7 15:40:15 2008 Message-Id: <004c01c8f98e$aa20aec0$0201a8c0@homepc> From: "iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org" Subject: Narcissus fly Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 20:40:50 +0100 Narcissus Fly is not, thankfully, a beastie we need to concern ourselves with here across our part of the pond but I would be interested to learn if anyone can tell me whether this insect has an infestation presence on Lilium, etc. I would also be grateful to know what this insect's scientific name is, it surely must have one. Common names per se do not 'travel' well, perhaps we know and experience it under a different name. Given that the genus Narcissus is not indigenous to north America I wonder how it arrived there should originate here in Europe, southern Europe to be more precise. Has it any relationship for over winter survival in terms low temperatures of your USDA's hardiness zones? Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 6:21 PM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 67, Issue 8 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Lycoris report - 1 (James Waddick) > 2. Crinums (James Waddick) > 3. Re: "The Bulb Garden" (Laura & Dave) > 4. Narcissus Fly: When is it safe? (Roy Herold) > 5. Re: Narcissus Fly: When is it safe? (Mark Mazer) > 6. Re: Oxalis rubra - white form ? (Diana Chapman) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 14:06:21 -0500 > From: James Waddick > Subject: [pbs] Lycoris report - 1 > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > Dear Friends, > With all the reports about Lycoris blooming - it is the season. > Just starting here too with L. squamigera leading the pack. > We had a lot of rain this spring - way over the average and I think > this has bulked up the bulbs as we are getting multiple stems per > bulb and very tall stalks. > > I have a few L. longituba just starting up and the tallest > stalk has topped out just prior to bloom at 40 inches to the base of > the inflorescence. Add 4-5 inches to the peak. This is exception, but > a number of other stalks are easily 36 inches, also very tall. > > After a week and 1/2 of no rain, there's a big rain storm > predicted for tonight. So I expect to see a flurry of activity in a > week or less. So far there's bloom or stalks on L . squamigera, > longituba. sprengeri, L. chinensis and some hybrids. Usually L. > sanguinea is the first to show, but no sign yet. It was badly hurt in > April '07 late killer freezes so may still be set back. > > Incidentally, Diana, Lycoris are very poor bloomers in pots. > I feel lucky to get a single bloom per pot. A friend on the East > Coast has better bloom, but they have a lot more rain and I assume > this makes all the difference. They can take / appreciate a LOT of > water in spring maybe even sitting in water as I have seen in the > wild in China for a couple species. > > Last year's freeze damaged all Lycoris foliage very badly and > this year we had no damages and lots of rain, but buds are formed in > the previous fall as I recall so they might still be light due to > last year's damages. I'll report more in 'part 2' > > Meanwhile enjoying the show. Jim W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 14:13:26 -0500 > From: James Waddick > Subject: [pbs] Crinums > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > Dear Friends, > I was gone for week to visit Atlanta and much impressed by > the streets lined with a variety of crepe myrtles. What a show! > Surprised on returning home at the number and variety of > Crinum still blooming and blooming for the first time. > > Super Ellen is on its third stalk and still dazzling. > Crinum x powellii are mostly done except for selection > including 'Nestor's Pink'. 'Cecil Houdyshel" and one labelled from > Les Hannibal. This last Crinum has not bloomed before. I think it was > passed along after Les' garden was dug and bulbs distributed. The > flowers are a pale pink and the most fragrant hardy crinum as I > reported before. I thought it was an x powellii type, but now that > the flowers have faded, there are seeds forming. Sort of a surprise > since this should be nearly totally sterile. > > Even C. scabrum is putting up a new stalk and a few x > powellii, but minor. > > These crinum continue to impress me with their sturdiness, > hardiness and vigor. A shame they are not seen more in gardens around > here. > > Best Jim W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:52:57 -0700 > From: Laura & Dave > Subject: Re: [pbs] "The Bulb Garden" > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <489A0F29.3010203@olywa.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > I just received the latest "The Bulb Garden", and I am very impressed. > This obviously took a lot of thought and work. There is a nice blend of > information; should be something for everyone! > > Thanks to all who had a hand in producing the newsletter !! > > Dave Brastow, 7A, Tumwater, Washington > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:03:54 -0400 > From: Roy Herold > Subject: [pbs] Narcissus Fly: When is it safe? > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <489A11BA.6040907@yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > I had a terrible time with narcissus fly getting into my pots of > cyrtanthus when they were outside last summer (2007), so this year I put > them in a coldframe covered with a screen (window type). Thinking that > the danger of fly infestation was passed, I took the screen off a couple > of weeks ago, mainly because flower scapes were running into it. > > Did I take it off too soon? Or could I have removed it much earlier, and > if so, when? > > The cyrtanthus really seem to have thrived in the screened environment, > irrespective of whether it kept the flies off. It gave a little extra > shade, and a bit of protection from the incessant thunderstorms we have > been having this summer. Lots of bloom, even on the 'difficult' C. tuckii. > > --Roy > Northwest of Boston > 8" of rain in July!! > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 16:50:03 -0500 (GMT-05:00) > From: Mark Mazer > Subject: Re: [pbs] Narcissus Fly: When is it safe? > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > <13646711.1218059404079.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >> >>Did I take it off too soon? Or could I have removed it much earlier, and >>if so, when? > > Hi Roy: > When I lived in Northwest Connecticut, both narcissus fly species in our > area had, in most years, laid their eggs by the end of May, most certainly > by the middle of June. But the Cyrtanthus species were also highly > susceptible to mealy bugs, so I settled on a regime that included an > Imadicloprine drench twice a year. > > Best, > Mark Mazer > Hertford, North Carolina USA > Zone 7b-8 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 06:06:56 -0700 > From: "Diana Chapman" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Oxalis rubra - white form ? > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Message-ID: <000701c8f88e$78554dc0$25196f4b@DJ9SK221> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Could be the white form of O. crassipes which is available from some > suppliers. > > Diana > Telos Rare Bulbs > www.telosrarebulbs.com >> >> I was re-reading one of my older ('94) Pacific Horticulture >> mags, an article on Oxalis had a picture of both white and pink flowered >> O. rubra growing together. I like way the O. rubra behaves in the garden >> - the large rhizomes are easy to find and it pretty much stay's put... >> So I tried to locate a source for the white form on the web... No luck.. >> In fact I can't find any reference to rubra white or alba... >> >> I suppose the white could have been another species - regnellii >> comes to mind - anyone have ideas ? >> >> Chad Schroter >> Gardening in Los Gatos, California >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 67, Issue 8 > ********************************** -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 7601 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len From antennaria@charter.net Fri Aug 8 16:02:59 2008 Message-Id: <20080808160238.PNTNM.11858.root@fepweb16> From: Mark McDonough Subject: Manfreda virginica Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 16:02:38 -0400 Hello PBS people, I haven't been very active on this group... it seems that I have to wait until my annual August vacation (all of August, 4-weeks, yippee!) before I have time to do extracurricular activities. I just updated the PBS wiki page with images of Manfreda virginica in flower. Along the upper reaches of a 6' stalk are interesting rather than beautiful flowers, but they are not without their own charm. A surprising aspect is that the tiny whitish three-lobed tube at the center of each stamen-esque floral construction are rather fragrant. The brownish shading to yellowish-green oversized stamens and anthers are interesting upon close viewing. I have added 4 images, taken between thunderstorms and downpours which seem to occur multiple times daily this summer. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Manfreda I grow this plant on a raised enbankment that is rather dry, getting afternoon sun. Thanks Aaron! Mark McDonough Massachusetts, near the New Hampshire border, USDA Zone 5 antennaria@charter.net From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri Aug 8 16:52:53 2008 Message-Id: <489CB224.8070405@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Crossley Subject: organic control of narcissus fly Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 08:52:52 +1200 Would it work to sprinkle dry Neem on the bulbs? Ina Crossley Auckland, New Zealand From kyle.b1@xtra.co.nz Fri Aug 8 16:55:18 2008 Message-Id: <200808090855.57104.kyle.b1@xtra.co.nz> From: Kiyel Boland Subject: Oxalis rubra Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 08:55:56 +1200 Hi Chad. Found this while i was Looking up Oxalis Rubra, seems that there was a white form in New Zealand i . Might just have to do plant hunting. Transactions and Proceedings of the Royal Society of New Zealand 1868-1961 Oxalis rubra A. St. Hil. First recorded by Allan (1940, p. 285), but the distribution is not given. Has been found as an established garden escape; Tauranga, M. Hodgkins! Onehunga, H. Carse! Feilding; Palmerston North, V. D. Zotov! Paekakariki, V. D. Zotov! Wellington City and suburbs, H. H. Allan! Riwaka; Nelson; Christchurch. A white-flowered form has been collected at Wellington, R. Mason! This appears to be that cited as establishing in California (Rose, in Leaflets of Western Botany, vol. i, no. 6, 1933, p. 51), but Knuth (1930, p. 203) makes no mention of such white-flowered forms. Kyle. In New Zealand From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri Aug 8 16:57:03 2008 Message-Id: <489CB31F.2080607@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Crossley Subject: narcissus fly Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 08:57:03 +1200 I read somewhere an article by a guy who had observed that his daffodils which grew in the full sun, got narcissus fly, but ones which were a lot in the shade, didn't. And so far I have never had any bother with my daffodils etc, as they are in a part of the garden which doesn't get much sun. It doesn't seem to affect their flowering. The Hypeastrums have been fine so far, for years now also. Don't know if that would help. Ina Crossley Auckland, New Zealand From Chad.Schroter@sandisk.com Fri Aug 8 17:39:40 2008 Message-Id: <969A00CE5A93A24A850B6330DA6C57B11F3DDE@MILEXMIPV6.sdcorp.global.sandisk.com> From: "Chad Schroter" Subject: Oxalis rubra (alba?) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 14:39:32 -0700 Wow, thanks to everyone who has responded so far, I have a lot to go on... I do have a nice soft pink (not white) Oxalis which is similar to rubra, crassipes etc., but it is a real terror, it can escape pots either through the drain hole or by spilling over the edge and forming bulbils in mid air... It is at least as dangerous as O. pes caprae, but shorter - small consolation... Oh, BTW my original start of O. rubra (pink) came from the BX - thank-you somebody!! Chad Schroter From totototo@telus.net Fri Aug 8 19:10:22 2008 Message-Id: <19740414223344.FB6E062530330071@priv-edmwaa04.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Hippeastrum 'Scarlet Baby' Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 16:02:26 -0700 I'm quite certain that Scarlet Baby has been available from local garden centers within the last two years. Origin at one of the usual wholesale dealers. So have hope! It's not out of cultivation. In fact, the range of Hippeastrum cultivars we get here is absolutely staggering. One year I counted 30 or 40 distinct ones, not all at any one outlet, and the selection changes quite a lot from year to year. If I had the money and space, I'd have a greenhouse devoted to them with a gardener to look after them, but, alas, no such luck. Canadian Tire is a chain roughly equivalent to Pep Boys, but more oriented toward general household goods. Even they have, some seasons, a good selection of Hippeastrums, sometimes cultivars I've never seen elsewhere. PS: Make that hypothetical greenhouse one with screened vents and doors to keep the narcissus fly at bay. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From kellso@irvincentral.com Fri Aug 8 19:22:06 2008 Message-Id: <489CD503.2070701@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Hippeastrum 'Scarlet Baby' Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 18:21:39 -0500 Rodger: I had found on the net that Van Bloem appears to be marketing them through retailers, but I have not seen it around here during the fall. I will look harder this season. Thanks for the heads up. I did finally today, using Ask.com, find glasshouseworks.com to be offering it. I know nothing about this company, and they are charging twice as much as they should, but, hey, I really want it bad. Maybe it's in a pot, instead of dormant. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ totototo@telus.net wrote: > I'm quite certain that Scarlet Baby has been available from local garden > centers within the last two years. Origin at one of the usual wholesale dealers. > > So have hope! It's not out of cultivation. > From kellso@irvincentral.com Fri Aug 8 19:27:18 2008 Message-Id: <489CD649.4090202@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Lycoris report - 1 Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 18:27:05 -0500 Hey, hey, HEY, JW! Well, I don't think we got as much rain as it appeared you did as I followed the radar, but we got a fair soaking yesterday. Today, my L. squamigera are coming up like gangbusters. I see a handful more of L. longituba, too, but no additional activity from the L. sanguinea and L. sprengeri, and I've had nothing whatsoever from my L. chinensis. I hope to see further "surprises" this weekend. You should go out a poke around if you haven't already, Jim. I'm sure you will see new activity from L. squamigera. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ James Waddick wrote: > Dear Friends, > With all the reports about Lycoris blooming - it is the season. > Just starting here too with L. squamigera leading the pack. > We had a lot of rain this spring - way over the average and I think > this has bulked up the bulbs as we are getting multiple stems per > bulb and very tall stalks. > > I have a few L. longituba just starting up and the tallest > stalk has topped out just prior to bloom at 40 inches to the base of > the inflorescence. Add 4-5 inches to the peak. This is exception, but > a number of other stalks are easily 36 inches, also very tall. > > After a week and 1/2 of no rain, there's a big rain storm > predicted for tonight. So I expect to see a flurry of activity in a > week or less. So far there's bloom or stalks on L . squamigera, > longituba. sprengeri, L. chinensis and some hybrids. Usually L. > sanguinea is the first to show, but no sign yet. It was badly hurt in > April '07 late killer freezes so may still be set back. > > Incidentally, Diana, Lycoris are very poor bloomers in pots. > I feel lucky to get a single bloom per pot. A friend on the East > Coast has better bloom, but they have a lot more rain and I assume > this makes all the difference. They can take / appreciate a LOT of > water in spring maybe even sitting in water as I have seen in the > wild in China for a couple species. > > Last year's freeze damaged all Lycoris foliage very badly and > this year we had no damages and lots of rain, but buds are formed in > the previous fall as I recall so they might still be light due to > last year's damages. I'll report more in 'part 2' > > Meanwhile enjoying the show. Jim W. > From pcamusa@hotmail.com Fri Aug 8 19:31:33 2008 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: Hippeastrum 'Scarlet Baby' Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 19:29:49 -0400 Glasshouseworks has Scarlet Baby on their site. -Phil > From: jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 13:09:18 -0400 > Subject: Re: [pbs] Hippeastrum 'Scarlet Baby' > > This is too funny. > > I’ve been trying to find a source for this one, too. > > Years ago I was sent a bulb of this cultivar gratis. I grow only a few > Hippeastrum now, mostly plants acquired as gifts. I’m not really a > Hippeastrum person, and if I were to grow any more they would have to be > fragrant. > > But ‘Scarlet Baby’ made a big impression. Despite the hilarious name (“You > didn’t check the water temperature before you put the baby in the bath?” Or > “You put habeñeros in the baby formula?”), it’s a very handsome small > flowered cultivar. > > At about the same time I got mine, a friend got one too. I remember her > showing me the nice nest of fat bulbs she had been able to raise in only a > season or two. > > I eventually lost mine, and have been looking for a replacement since. > > So if someone knows of a source, please let us all know. > > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone > 7, where Iris dichotoma is blooming (or will be in about three hours). > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _________________________________________________________________ Get Windows Live and get whatever you need, wherever you are. Start here. http://www.windowslive.com/default.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Home_082008 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Aug 7 19:56:55 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080808163311.017327a0@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Narcissus fly Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:38:03 -0700 Mary SUe wrote, Does anyone know >whether this fly is interested in bulbs from any other family besides >Amaryllidaceae? As far as I can see, it isn't. I have a large number of genera and families represented in my collection, and I have found bulb fly larvae only in Narcissus, Galanthus, and Sternbergia. I now cover all the sternbergias and galanthus with screens or Reemay before the flies emerge but the narcissus are so scattered around and so many of them that I haven't grouped and covered them yet. I squeeze the bulbs hard when I lift them to test whether they have grubs -- the species I grow in the frames are all quite small so this is effective though very disgusting. This year spring was very cold for a long time, and the flies did not emerge until about a month later than I have seen them before; they must emerge in response to soil temperature (the larvae pupate in the soil, not inside the bulbs)? Anyway, so far I have found very few infested narcissus bulbs, and no pot with more than one bad one. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Sat Aug 9 01:29:53 2008 Message-Id: <489D2B50.40906@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: "The Bulb Garden" Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 22:29:52 -0700 Uli: Thanks for your kind words about this issue of "The Bulb Garden." Jennifer and I really enjoy editing it, and we are grateful to have such enjoyable contributions from our authors. I, too, wish I were closer to Wave Hill; Judy made it sound beautiful! Roy's article definitely got me interested again in Alstroemerias, and I found two gorgeous new choices on his web site. And certainly, Brian's volunteer article on cyclamen added wonderful information! Marguerite Uli Urban wrote: > So "The Bulb Garden" came as a nice break and I must say thank you to > all the contributors. It is so well written and so full of unusual and > never-heard-before information. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Aug 8 11:59:21 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080809085518.016e58f8@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Narcissus fly - organic control? Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 08:58:46 -0700 Kelly wrote, >Anybody had any experience fighting the Narcissus fly organically? I remember somebody telling me, or writing, that he went out in his bulb garden when they were emerging and whacked them with a tennis racquet. And I think Steve Vinisky, a daffodil breeder, mentioned sending his children out with butterfly nets. I had some luck last year using one of those long-distance wasp sprays (not organic!) and nailing them on the wing. They're easy to identify when flying because of the peculiar sound they make, like giant mosquitoes. I got a couple this spring just by throwing plastic pots at them. Very haphazard methods, all of these...I think a spray at the base of the foliage, where they lay their eggs, is the best idea and will try it next year. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From info@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org Fri Aug 8 17:20:31 2008 Message-Id: <004301c8fa65$d2767a80$0201a8c0@homepc> From: "iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org" Subject: narcissus bug Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 22:20:48 +0100 Thank you Arnold & Mary Sue, stearage to sources and comments hugely appreciated, another day and more to learn. I do feel a bit "thick" sometimes so thank you both. Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 4:59 PM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 67, Issue 9 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Scilla forcing (Patrick Troy) > 2. Re: Narcissus fly (iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org) > 3. Re: Narcissus fly (Arnold Trachtenberg) > 4. Re: Narcissus fly (Mary Sue Ittner) > 5. "The Bulb Garden" (Uli Urban) > 6. Re: Narcissus fly (Jane McGary) > 7. Re: Oxalis rubra - white form ? (Ron Vanderhoff) > 8. Re: Narcissus fly - organic control? (Kelly Irvin) > 9. Kniphofia collectors (Martin Tversted) > 10. Scilla peruviana and searching the archives (Mary Sue Ittner) > 11. Re: Narcissus fly - organic control? (Jane McGary) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:22:28 -0700 (PDT) > From: Patrick Troy > Subject: [pbs] Scilla forcing > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <64686.24386.qm@web90608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Has anyone much experience with SCilla peruviana forcing. I have a mostly > white and blue colelction of the compact types with corymb heads that > flower reliably in February in California. For some reason this year I've > had poorer flowering results. Does anyone have references I could read on > this? > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 20:40:50 +0100 > From: "iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org" > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Narcissus fly > To: > Message-ID: <004c01c8f98e$aa20aec0$0201a8c0@homepc> > Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type="original" > > Narcissus Fly is not, thankfully, a beastie we need to concern ourselves > with here across our part of the pond but I would be interested to learn > if > anyone can tell me whether this insect has an infestation presence on > Lilium, etc. > > I would also be grateful to know what this insect's scientific name is, it > surely must have one. Common names per se do not 'travel' well, perhaps we > know and experience it under a different name. Given that the genus > Narcissus is not indigenous to north America I wonder how it arrived there > should originate here in Europe, southern Europe to be more precise. Has > it > any relationship for over winter survival in terms low temperatures of > your > USDA's hardiness zones? > > Iain > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 6:21 PM > Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 67, Issue 8 > > >> Send pbs mailing list submissions to >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." >> >> >> List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >> List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Lycoris report - 1 (James Waddick) >> 2. Crinums (James Waddick) >> 3. Re: "The Bulb Garden" (Laura & Dave) >> 4. Narcissus Fly: When is it safe? (Roy Herold) >> 5. Re: Narcissus Fly: When is it safe? (Mark Mazer) >> 6. Re: Oxalis rubra - white form ? (Diana Chapman) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 14:06:21 -0500 >> From: James Waddick >> Subject: [pbs] Lycoris report - 1 >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >> >> Dear Friends, >> With all the reports about Lycoris blooming - it is the season. >> Just starting here too with L. squamigera leading the pack. >> We had a lot of rain this spring - way over the average and I think >> this has bulked up the bulbs as we are getting multiple stems per >> bulb and very tall stalks. >> >> I have a few L. longituba just starting up and the tallest >> stalk has topped out just prior to bloom at 40 inches to the base of >> the inflorescence. Add 4-5 inches to the peak. This is exception, but >> a number of other stalks are easily 36 inches, also very tall. >> >> After a week and 1/2 of no rain, there's a big rain storm >> predicted for tonight. So I expect to see a flurry of activity in a >> week or less. So far there's bloom or stalks on L . squamigera, >> longituba. sprengeri, L. chinensis and some hybrids. Usually L. >> sanguinea is the first to show, but no sign yet. It was badly hurt in >> April '07 late killer freezes so may still be set back. >> >> Incidentally, Diana, Lycoris are very poor bloomers in pots. >> I feel lucky to get a single bloom per pot. A friend on the East >> Coast has better bloom, but they have a lot more rain and I assume >> this makes all the difference. They can take / appreciate a LOT of >> water in spring maybe even sitting in water as I have seen in the >> wild in China for a couple species. >> >> Last year's freeze damaged all Lycoris foliage very badly and >> this year we had no damages and lots of rain, but buds are formed in >> the previous fall as I recall so they might still be light due to >> last year's damages. I'll report more in 'part 2' >> >> Meanwhile enjoying the show. Jim W. >> -- >> Dr. James W. Waddick >> 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. >> Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 >> USA >> Ph. 816-746-1949 >> Zone 5 Record low -23F >> Summer 100F + >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 14:13:26 -0500 >> From: James Waddick >> Subject: [pbs] Crinums >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >> >> Dear Friends, >> I was gone for week to visit Atlanta and much impressed by >> the streets lined with a variety of crepe myrtles. What a show! >> Surprised on returning home at the number and variety of >> Crinum still blooming and blooming for the first time. >> >> Super Ellen is on its third stalk and still dazzling. >> Crinum x powellii are mostly done except for selection >> including 'Nestor's Pink'. 'Cecil Houdyshel" and one labelled from >> Les Hannibal. This last Crinum has not bloomed before. I think it was >> passed along after Les' garden was dug and bulbs distributed. The >> flowers are a pale pink and the most fragrant hardy crinum as I >> reported before. I thought it was an x powellii type, but now that >> the flowers have faded, there are seeds forming. Sort of a surprise >> since this should be nearly totally sterile. >> >> Even C. scabrum is putting up a new stalk and a few x >> powellii, but minor. >> >> These crinum continue to impress me with their sturdiness, >> hardiness and vigor. A shame they are not seen more in gardens around >> here. >> >> Best Jim W. >> -- >> Dr. James W. Waddick >> 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. >> Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 >> USA >> Ph. 816-746-1949 >> Zone 5 Record low -23F >> Summer 100F + >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:52:57 -0700 >> From: Laura & Dave >> Subject: Re: [pbs] "The Bulb Garden" >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: <489A0F29.3010203@olywa.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> I just received the latest "The Bulb Garden", and I am very impressed. >> This obviously took a lot of thought and work. There is a nice blend of >> information; should be something for everyone! >> >> Thanks to all who had a hand in producing the newsletter !! >> >> Dave Brastow, 7A, Tumwater, Washington >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:03:54 -0400 >> From: Roy Herold >> Subject: [pbs] Narcissus Fly: When is it safe? >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: <489A11BA.6040907@yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> I had a terrible time with narcissus fly getting into my pots of >> cyrtanthus when they were outside last summer (2007), so this year I put >> them in a coldframe covered with a screen (window type). Thinking that >> the danger of fly infestation was passed, I took the screen off a couple >> of weeks ago, mainly because flower scapes were running into it. >> >> Did I take it off too soon? Or could I have removed it much earlier, and >> if so, when? >> >> The cyrtanthus really seem to have thrived in the screened environment, >> irrespective of whether it kept the flies off. It gave a little extra >> shade, and a bit of protection from the incessant thunderstorms we have >> been having this summer. Lots of bloom, even on the 'difficult' C. >> tuckii. >> >> --Roy >> Northwest of Boston >> 8" of rain in July!! >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 16:50:03 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >> From: Mark Mazer >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Narcissus Fly: When is it safe? >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Message-ID: >> <13646711.1218059404079.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >>> >>>Did I take it off too soon? Or could I have removed it much earlier, and >>>if so, when? >> >> Hi Roy: >> When I lived in Northwest Connecticut, both narcissus fly species in our >> area had, in most years, laid their eggs by the end of May, most >> certainly >> by the middle of June. But the Cyrtanthus species were also highly >> susceptible to mealy bugs, so I settled on a regime that included an >> Imadicloprine drench twice a year. >> >> Best, >> Mark Mazer >> Hertford, North Carolina USA >> Zone 7b-8 >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 06:06:56 -0700 >> From: "Diana Chapman" >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Oxalis rubra - white form ? >> To: "Pacific Bulb Society" >> Message-ID: <000701c8f88e$78554dc0$25196f4b@DJ9SK221> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Could be the white form of O. crassipes which is available from some >> suppliers. >> >> Diana >> Telos Rare Bulbs >> www.telosrarebulbs.com >>> >>> I was re-reading one of my older ('94) Pacific Horticulture >>> mags, an article on Oxalis had a picture of both white and pink flowered >>> O. rubra growing together. I like way the O. rubra behaves in the garden >>> - the large rhizomes are easy to find and it pretty much stay's put... >>> So I tried to locate a source for the white form on the web... No luck.. >>> In fact I can't find any reference to rubra white or alba... >>> >>> I suppose the white could have been another species - regnellii >>> comes to mind - anyone have ideas ? >>> >>> Chad Schroter >>> Gardening in Los Gatos, California >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> >> End of pbs Digest, Vol 67, Issue 8 >> ********************************** > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. > It has removed 7601 spam emails to date. > Paying users do not have this message in their emails. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:10:00 -0400 > From: Arnold Trachtenberg > Subject: Re: [pbs] Narcissus fly > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <489B5698.1080506@nj.rr.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > Iain: > > Here is a link to the scientific name. > > Arnold > > http://www.insectimages.org/browse/subimages.cfm?SUB=7944 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:57:47 -0700 > From: Mary Sue Ittner > Subject: Re: [pbs] Narcissus fly > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20080807135419.0359cef8@mail.mcn.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Dear Iain, > > We have a wiki page devoted to this with information and photos that were > contributed from at least three members from across the pond so it > obviously is a problem in Ireland and the United Kingdom. Does anyone know > whether this fly is interested in bulbs from any other family besides > Amaryllidaceae? > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusBulbFly > > Mary Sue > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: 07 Aug 2008 21:44 GMT > From: "Uli Urban" > Subject: [pbs] "The Bulb Garden" > To: "Pacifib Bulb Society messages" > Message-ID: <1KRDu9-19Lup00@fwd33.aul.t-online.de> > Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset="ISO-8859-1" > > Dear All, > > > > Not having contributed for a long time in this list does not mean I > retired from bulbs..... on the contrary. I am dead-busy to at last get > the garden and house finished after some major changes, tired of > "pioneer works" I really do understand that this might also mean we have > a new President.... > So "The Bulb Garden" came as a nice break and I must say thank you to > all the contributors. It is so well written and so full of unusual and > never-heard-before information. I have always been fond of Alstroemerias > but was not sucessful with them except a weedy A.aurea but this one > succumbed to the building activities in the garden....... I will for > sure come back to these plants once everything is settled here. > The article on Wave Hill Garden made me feel like hopping into a plane > to have a look myself...... America with its warmer summers for sure has > things to offer garden wise which I have never seen as yet...... > Also very useful to know at last how to distinguish Cyclamen > hederifolium and C. graecum, honestly I always thought it is the same > species because I cannot see any difference between two flowering > plants. I grow both so next time I will watch out where exactly the > fruit stalk curls. Also very useful to read which Cyclamen grows on > which soil, this might explain some failure...... > It is an interesting solution to that terrible space problem just to buy > twenty extra acres...... but can you guys let us all know how you solve > the TIME-problem? > > Thank you all very much! Uli from Germany 35?C > here today with heavy thunderstorms and heave rain > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:38:03 -0700 > From: Jane McGary > Subject: Re: [pbs] Narcissus fly > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20080808163311.017327a0@pop.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Mary SUe wrote, Does anyone know >>whether this fly is interested in bulbs from any other family besides >>Amaryllidaceae? > > > As far as I can see, it isn't. I have a large number of genera and > families > represented in my collection, and I have found bulb fly larvae only in > Narcissus, Galanthus, and Sternbergia. I now cover all the sternbergias > and > galanthus with screens or Reemay before the flies emerge but the narcissus > are so scattered around and so many of them that I haven't grouped and > covered them yet. I squeeze the bulbs hard when I lift them to test > whether > they have grubs -- the species I grow in the frames are all quite small so > this is effective though very disgusting. > > This year spring was very cold for a long time, and the flies did not > emerge until about a month later than I have seen them before; they must > emerge in response to soil temperature (the larvae pupate in the soil, not > inside the bulbs)? Anyway, so far I have found very few infested narcissus > bulbs, and no pot with more than one bad one. > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon, USA > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 21:55:57 -0700 (PDT) > From: Ron Vanderhoff > Subject: Re: [pbs] Oxalis rubra - white form ? > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <342295.7361.qm@web81006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Chad, > "Oxalis rubra" is one of the most confused plants in an already confused > genus, Oxalis. > ? > The plant you are probably asking about is probably best called?Oxalis > articulata ssp. rubra f. crassipes, although you will find this plant > listed under a dozen or?more different names. These might include Oxalis > rubra 'Alba', Oxalis rubra 'White', Oxalis crassipes, Oxalis crassipes > 'White', Oxalis articulata 'Alba', Oxalis articulata 'White' and many > others. > ? > Dr. Alicia Loureig's (deceased) paper in Phytologia?(1982) on Oxalis > Section Articulatae attempted to straighten out some of the confusion. It > is from this paper that the correct name of Oxalis articulata ssp. rubra > f. crassipes was established. In this paper she also?indicated that the > white?flowered version of this Oxalis was?described from a plant > cultivated?in Germany as from "South America".? Lourteig considers this > plant a white-flowered mutation that has been maintained only in > cultivation.? The stylar length can either be short or medium. > ? > For a supplier of this plant, I think you'll find a few sources if you try > some of the synonyms above, especially using the term "crassipes" in your > search. Be aware that this white flowered version has somewhat smaller > flowers than the rose-pink plants that you are probably familiar with. I > also suggest that you hunt for one of the soft pink forms, which are > especially attractive. > Ron Vanderhoff > Sunny Southern California where Oxalis grow easily > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Chad Schroter > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:49:11 AM > Subject: [pbs] Oxalis rubra - white form ? > > > ??? I was re-reading one of my older ('94) Pacific Horticulture > mags, an article on Oxalis had a picture of both white and pink flowered > O. rubra growing together. I like way the O. rubra behaves in the garden > - the large rhizomes are easy to find and it pretty much stay's put... > So I tried to locate a source for the white form on the web... No luck.. > In fact I can't find any reference to rubra white or alba... > > ??? I suppose the white could have been another species - regnellii > comes to mind - anyone have ideas ? > > Chad Schroter > Gardening in Los Gatos, California > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 05:57:13 -0500 > From: Kelly Irvin > Subject: Re: [pbs] Narcissus fly - organic control? > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <489C2689.4040105@irvincentral.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Mary Sue: > > I scanned through the article, which is very helpful. I seem to have > heard somewhere or read somewhere that vegetable oils can be used as a > spot spray on the foliage base to help with control... > > As a matter of fact, I just found an article that refers to canola oil > and pyrethrins as a drench, "http://davesgarden.com/guides/bf/go/2436/", > but I know this is not the source I have in vague memory. > > Anybody had any experience fighting the Narcissus fly organically? > > Mr. Kelly M. Irvin > 10850 Hodge Ln > Gravette, AR 72736 > USA > 479-787-9958 > USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b > > http://www.irvincentral.com/ > > > Mary Sue Ittner wrote: >> Dear Iain, >> >> We have a wiki page devoted to this with information and photos that were >> contributed from at least three members from across the pond so it >> obviously is a problem in Ireland and the United Kingdom. Does anyone >> know >> whether this fly is interested in bulbs from any other family besides >> Amaryllidaceae? >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusBulbFly >> >> Mary Sue > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 15:55:46 +0200 > From: "Martin Tversted" > Subject: [pbs] Kniphofia collectors > To: > Message-ID: <000a01c8f95e$75653c30$0200000a@PC202395843122> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I would like to get in touch with other Kniphofia collectors and > hybridizers > for exchange of plant material and cultivation experience. > I have a collection here in Denmark of around 100 species and hybrids. > > If you are interested please contact me at tversted at email.dk > > Martin Tversted > Zone 7b > http://www.northern-nursery.dk/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 08:12:47 -0700 > From: Mary Sue Ittner > Subject: [pbs] Scilla peruviana and searching the archives > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20080808075824.035b5e40@mail.mcn.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Dear Patrick, > > We have discussed Scilla peruviana in the past a number of times as people > have written with the same question that you have. It has a reputation for > skipping seasons of bloom. This has been true in my garden, but apparently > is not true for everyone. I think in one spot of my garden it just got too > shady. Some people have suggested that it needs a dry period in summer to > do well. It gets that in my garden but still does not bloom every year. > Here was another suggestion from the past: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2006-April/024919.html > > By the way for all those of you who are new to our list and for those of > you who have forgotten the formula for searching the archives in Google is > found on the Pacific Bulb Society web site. It is: > +[pbs] [search terms] site:lists.ibiblio.org > > Google indexes all the posts from ibiblio lists. Unfortunately you can't > search from the archives for them, but you can search from Google. In the > Google box put in the formula above and substitute whatever you want to > find for "search terms". You may get previous and next posts in the list > of > messages you get, but you will also get the most relevant posts. In this > case you would put the following in the google search box if you wanted to > find previous posts about Scilla peruviana: > +[pbs] [Scilla peruviana] site:lists.ibiblio.org > > Mary Sue > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 08:58:46 -0700 > From: Jane McGary > Subject: Re: [pbs] Narcissus fly - organic control? > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20080809085518.016e58f8@pop.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Kelly wrote, > >>Anybody had any experience fighting the Narcissus fly organically? > > I remember somebody telling me, or writing, that he went out in his bulb > garden when they were emerging and whacked them with a tennis racquet. And > I think Steve Vinisky, a daffodil breeder, mentioned sending his children > out with butterfly nets. I had some luck last year using one of those > long-distance wasp sprays (not organic!) and nailing them on the wing. > They're easy to identify when flying because of the peculiar sound they > make, like giant mosquitoes. I got a couple this spring just by throwing > plastic pots at them. Very haphazard methods, all of these...I think a > spray at the base of the foliage, where they lay their eggs, is the best > idea and will try it next year. > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon, USA > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 67, Issue 9 > ********************************** -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 7848 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len From miller7398@comcast.net Sat Aug 9 20:13:52 2008 Message-Id: <001601c8fa7d$f6161f00$3f39734c@tapa965> From: "Joyce Miller" Subject: Koleria Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 17:13:42 -0700 Hi, Does anyone from this genera? A friend has a photo of a blooming plant and is trying to get more information about it. Specifically, what are the white tendrils appearing at the base of the plant extending the entire circumference. The plant was grown by me and given as a gift to her but my records aren't complete enough to be able to give her any information and none of my books on bulbs, and I have a number, doesn't even mention the genus. If anyone response, I can forward her photo directly to you. Best wishes, Joyce Miller, Gresham, Oregon, USDA zone 8, dry summers, wet winters. From othonna@gmail.com Sat Aug 9 20:44:26 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260808091744s5b24fb7cnc537e0db27271c50@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Koleria Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 17:44:25 -0700 Joyce, I trust you mean Kohleria, a genus of tropical gesneriads with scaly rhizomes. Try this link to the gesneriad society, a very avid group of growers: http://www.gesneriadsociety.org/ Regards, Dylan Hannon Dylan Hannon Rare Bulbs On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Joyce Miller wrote: > Hi, > Does anyone from this genera? A friend has a photo of a blooming plant > and is trying to get more information about it. Specifically, what are the > white tendrils appearing at the base of the plant extending the entire > circumference. The plant was grown by me and given as a gift to her but my > records aren't complete enough to be able to give her any information and > none of my books on bulbs, and I have a number, doesn't even mention the > genus. If anyone response, I can forward her photo directly to you. > Best wishes, Joyce Miller, Gresham, Oregon, USDA zone 8, dry summers, > wet winters. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat Aug 9 20:53:28 2008 Message-Id: <489E3BAD.5040502@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Koleria Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 20:51:57 -0400 I found a "koeleria" which is a prairie grass. Common name "Junegrass". Arnold From miller7398@comcast.net Sat Aug 9 22:57:52 2008 Message-Id: <000e01c8fa94$d94041f0$3f39734c@tapa965> From: "Joyce Miller" Subject: Koleria Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 19:57:37 -0700 Thanks Arnold but it is definitely a tuber. joyce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arnold Trachtenberg" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 5:51 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Koleria >I found a "koeleria" which is a prairie grass. Common name "Junegrass". > > Arnold > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > __________ NOD32 3342 (20080809) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Sat Aug 9 23:50:46 2008 Message-Id: <6vfgkt$7lg8gp@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out4.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: Kohleria? Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:50:26 +1000 At 10:13 AM 10/08/2008, you wrote: >Hi, > Does anyone from this genera? A friend has a photo of a > blooming plant and is trying to get more information about > it. Specifically, what are the white tendrils appearing at the > base of the plant extending the entire circumference. The plant > was grown by me and given as a gift to her but my records aren't > complete enough to be able to give her any information and none of > my books on bulbs, and I have a number, doesn't even mention the > genus. If anyone response, I can forward her photo directly to you. Joyce, Are you meaning Kohleria? If so, it's a Gesneriad. it produces runners which spread it's rhizomes about a bit. in pots they appear out the drainage holes and run about a bit. They're more or less a tubular flower with a flared lip, usually in reds or pinks, some quite electric in colour. Does that sound like it? Cheers. Paul T. Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Galanthus, Irises, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! From B.J.M.Zonneveld@biology.leidenuniv.nl Mon Aug 11 04:18:42 2008 Message-Id: <8E19E8A2233ED74D8483ACF3FBB3603B01F5D80E@iblmail.ibl.leidenuniv.nl> From: "B.J.M. Zonneveld" Subject: DNA of Scilla peruviana Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:18:38 +0200 Just a bit of information, useless to most of you I suppose.I tested nuclear DNA content of Scilla peruviana from four different sources and found two values : three of them from culture were diploid, a fourth one from the wild ( Alte, Algarve, Portugal) turned out to be triploid! From msittner@mcn.org Mon Aug 11 10:39:39 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080811065510.0361b918@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions-- Oxalis, Tritonia Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 07:36:45 -0700 Hi, I tried to get updated pictures of the South African Oxalis I recently donated to the BX on the wiki before I sent them to Dell. Added Oxalis caprina, picture of bulb of O. compressa, another pic of Oxalis engleriana, photos of Oxalis flava (we think from Uli) http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalis Added another pictures of Oxalis glabra which I plan to send to Dell soon, Oxalis gracilis (sometimes grown as O. karooica), a pretty mauve form of Oxalis hirta from Ron Vanderhoff, and Oxalis imbricata which I first got from the BX and Lyn Makela which finally bloomed last year http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisTwo I finally got the Oxalis melanosticta 'Ken Aslet' to bloom last year so added a picture of that. It doesn't usually bloom so was probably just a freak event, but it does have nice soft hairy velvety leaves. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisThree Added Oxalis purpurea 'Skar' and another picture of Oxalis zeekoevleyensis, the form that many of us grow that blooms in the fall even though my books says this is the wrong time of the year http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisFour I've also been working on Tritonia, a South African Irid that I grow successfully in the ground and in pots in Northern California. Although one of the species I grow is an early bloomer, most of them bloom in the late period for winter rainfall Irids from South Africa so sometimes bloom along with my native bulbs that bloom at the same time. Many of the Tritonias I grow are shades of orange and a lot of the natives I grow that bloom at that time are shades of purple which can be a nice combination. Tritonia has had some recent changes in the name of a couple of species, Tritonia crispa has become Tritonia undulata, and Tritonia lineata has become Tritonia gladiolaris. After I added photos from Rod Saunders, Alan Horstmann, Cameron McMaster, and me the Tritonia page had become too long, so I had to split it up. Added new yellow species, Tritonia chrysantha, photos of Tritonia crocata blooming in the ground with Iris douglasiana, close-up of T. crocata, habitat pictures of Tritonia deusta, disticha, drakenbergensis, and another picture of T. dubia. Tritonia drakenbergensis is a summer rainfall species from a high elevation so may be hardier than most. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TritoniaTwo Added habitat pictures of Tritonia flabellifolia and Tritonia gladiolaris, and a new yellow species, Tritonia florentiae, an early bloomer (May to Sept. in South Africa). http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TritoniaThree Added new species Tritonia laxifolia, Tritonia parvula, and Tritonia undulata (long tubed with crisped and undulate leaves). Also new photos of Tritonia securigera http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TritoniaFour Mary Sue From idavide@sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 11 11:56:51 2008 Message-Id: <946519.88183.qm@web81003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: DNA of Scilla peruviana Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 08:56:50 -0700 (PDT) Wild triploid?  How does it reproduce? David Ehrlich From idavide@sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 11 12:28:25 2008 Message-Id: <401516.5515.qm@web81008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: An everlasting Zinnia Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 09:28:24 -0700 (PDT)   At the beginning of JuneI bought a pot of Zinnia “Swizzle Scarlet & Yellow”.  Only one flower head was open at the time,.  That flower was beautiful – the ray flowers were fuchsia in the center, then red and finally yellow at the tips.  What I thought were disc flowers were not yet open, and red in bud.  That flower-head is still in glorious bloom, over 1 month later!  The “disc” turned out to be more ray flowers; the head just keeps growing larger as the central flowers push out.  The head is now over 4” in diameter.  In the meantime, five more flower heads have opened with the same splendid colors, although the latest three have genuine disc flowers.   This is my first Zinnia, so my question is: is it typical for the flower heads to last this long? David Ehrlich From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Aug 11 13:02:28 2008 Message-Id: <001d01c8fbd4$708ac400$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: An everlasting Zinnia Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 13:05:20 -0400 Yes, I'd say that's characteristic of zinnias. However, older cultivars or contemporary strains which are not well managed tend to produce open flowers - in other words, a shallow ring of ray flowers around a center of disk flowers. The ray flowers go on and on, but eventually fade and discolor. In forms which produce a progression of ray flowers, you don't notice the fading because the faded ray flowers are buried under the new ray flowers. If you dig around under the newer, brightly colored ray flowers, you'll usually find old faded ones. The faded ray flowers often have a papery, used-tea-bag look. Some other composites with multiplied ray flowers do the same thing. I think zinnias are great! When I read the subject line of David's post, I thought he would be telling us about his experiences with one of the cold-hardy perennial zinnias. Jim McKenney From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Mon Aug 11 16:26:06 2008 Message-Id: <000901c8fbf0$9c847b70$4001a8c0@lindaj6m8zgi2a> From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: An everlasting Zinnia Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:26:58 -0600 cold-hardy perennial zinnias - say what? I love zinnias but I've never had any luck growing them here, they do not do well at all. Our nights are much too cold, or that's what I've thought. Can you point me in the right direction to find these cold hardy zinnias? Linda Foulis Okotoks, AB Canada From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Aug 11 16:57:00 2008 Message-Id: <002801c8fbf5$34146410$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: An everlasting Zinnia Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:59:52 -0400 Linda Foulis asked " Can you point me in the right direction to find these cold hardy zinnias?" I figured that would get a response from someone! Yes, I'll be glad to point you, but it won't be to the zinnias you're looking for. The plant I'm talking about is Zinnia grandiflora, and it's given a USDA zone 4 rating by High Country Gardens. It's native as far north as some cold parts of Colorado. It's a perennial, and is probably not suited to garden culture over in areas with wet summers. Zinnia grandiflora is not your typical cut-flower annual zinnia. I think the name if pretty funny because the term "grandiflora" is seed catalog jargon for "latest and greatest" "biggest and best" and so on. The wild Zinnia grandiflora does not look at all like a garden zinnia (unless your idea of a garden zinnia is the small Z. angustifolia sorts). It's a small yellow-orange daisy flower. But it is a hardy perennial, at least in dry zones. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where Gloriosa superba is blooming. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Aug 11 17:02:58 2008 Message-Id: <002901c8fbf6$03c3cf70$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Scilla scilloides/Scilla japonica/Bernardia japonica Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 17:05:40 -0400 Postings on other forums have alerted me to the fact that Scilla scilloides is blooming in some locations in eastern Canada and northwestern Europe. So far, there has been no sign of life above ground here. Is it blooming for any of you yet? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Mon Aug 11 17:05:58 2008 Message-Id: <000a01c8fbf6$2e669320$4001a8c0@lindaj6m8zgi2a> From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: An everlasting Zinnia Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:06:52 -0600 Thank you, Jim. No not the zinnia I was expecting but I think it would do well here. With an average of 11" of rain per year, I think it would do quite well in my rock garden. Linda Foulis From JmsJon664@aol.com Mon Aug 11 19:26:02 2008 Message-Id: <8CACA20BCB7EF95-4C8-5E9@WEBMAIL-MA15.sysops.aol.com> From: jmsjon664@aol.com Subject: Oxalis, Scilla, Scilla Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 19:25:55 -0400 Three recent subjects have been Oxalis 'rosea', Scilla peruviana, and Scilla scilloides.  Following is a report from zone 5/6: I've been growing Oxalis rosea outdoors for many years, with the extent of its domain waxing and waning with the coldness of the winters.  I believe it was killed outright once when the temperature went to 10 below, but I was able to get it going again from an alpine house.  Basically, it hugs the south-facing foundation, a spot it shares with Alstroemeria aurea, blooms throughout the season, and doesn't even dream of being invasive. The bizarrely named Scilla peruviana has also been with me a long time but is far from rampant or even dependable.  In recent times it has settled down in a fairly nondescript location -- open garden, below-average soil, plenty of sun.  It blooms at the end of May. Scilla scilloides, which is rampant to the extent that I have to routinely thin it out, is just beginning to bloom.  It certainly looks good with the naked stalks of pinkish flowers, but the earlier period of senescing foliage is a different matter.  It is tolerable in small quantities among masking vegetation, hence the thinning. Jim Jones Lexington, MA From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Aug 11 19:56:10 2008 Message-Id: <003101c8fc0e$366b6a10$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Oxalis, Scilla, Scilla Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 19:58:53 -0400 Here's a Marylander's take on these three. Oxalis articulata (aka rosea, crassipes) grows here in both pink and white forms. Years ago when I first acquired these I was concerned about their winter hardiness. I've never lost them during the recent mild winters, but during last summer, which was extremely dry, two clumps utterly disappeared and there has been no sign of oxalid life since in those spots. Jim, I'm amazed that Scilla peruviana survives for you. Years ago, when our winters were much nastier than any recent winter, I repeatedly lost it. There used to be a local garden shop which brought in crates of them each fall. These plants would surge into growth in the autumn, and the resulting foliage would invariably be destroyed during the ensuing winter. More recently I've seen it thriving in local gardens: in one garden in particular this year I saw huge plants much bigger than anything I've ever grown myself. You mentioned that it blooms for you at the end of May. The plants here, which grow in a protected cold frame, bloom in early April. Those huge plants I mentioned above were still in bud in late April. A quibble about the name: what's bizarre about it? Clusius named it to commemorate the ship (the Peru) which purportedly brought it to England. You also mention: "It certainly looks good with the naked stalks of pinkish flowers, but the earlier period of senescing foliage is a different matter." Reading that reminded me that I have to 'fess up about something. In a post last year about this plant, I mentioned that the foliage emerges after flowering time and survives the winter and dies down in the spring. Actually, it does no such thing. The foliage is above ground only for a few months in the autumn: it dies down with the arrival of really severe weather, and new foliage does not appear until the next autumn. I gave everyone a generous year to pick up on that, and not one soul did. This must be a very polite group - polite or something. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where Tigridia pavonia is blooming. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From dells@voicenet.com Tue Aug 12 15:36:55 2008 Message-Id: <20080812193654.7373D4C023@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 180 Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 15:36:07 -0400 From xerics@cox.net Tue Aug 12 16:01:24 2008 Message-Id: <004901c8fcb6$2bb3a4e0$831aeea0$@net> From: "Richard" Subject: Pacific BX 180 Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 13:01:12 -0700 Came blank! -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dell Sherk Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 12:36 PM To: 'Adam Fikso'; 'c'; DavBouch5@aol.com; Douglas Westfall; General PBS forum; John Lonsdale; 'Macfarlane'; 'Mark'; 'Mark Wilcox'; Pat Colville; The Masterson Family Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 180 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From totototo@telus.net Tue Aug 12 18:44:06 2008 Message-Id: <19740418235448.ED8A2604312CED2F@priv-edmwaa15.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: DNA of Scilla peruviana Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 15:35:41 -0700 On 11 Aug 08, at 8:56, David Ehrlich wrote: > Wild triploid?  How does it reproduce? By vegetative means, probably the formation of daughter bulbs. AFAIK (as far as I know) this is a fairly common scenario among geophytes. Brodiaea howellii (which has some other name now) occurs only at one site on Vancouver Island, according to my botanical friends. I collected a few tiny bulbs from that site many years ago and (foolishly, as it happened) planted them in a raised bulb bed. Over the years, very few flower stems have formed, none have set seed, but underground the soil is filled for several feet in all directions with offsets formed at the ends of stolons or rhizomes. No DNA analysis to confirm my suspicion, but the behavior strongly suggests I've got a sterile triploid form. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From dells@voicenet.com Tue Aug 12 18:45:31 2008 Message-Id: <20080812224531.65A0F4C01B@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Blank Pacific BX 180 Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:45:02 -0400 Sorry. I don't know how that happened. I'll re-compose and send tomorrow. Dell From Theladygardens@aol.com Tue Aug 12 18:50:24 2008 Message-Id: From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Blank Pacific BX 180 Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:51:26 EDT Ouch, so sorry you have to re-compose that. You do so much work already. It is much appreciated by all of us and I am really aware of how many hours you must spend on this. Thanks, Carolyn **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Tue Aug 12 18:58:57 2008 Message-Id: <6q31p8$8vabk7@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out3.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: DNA of Scilla peruviana Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 08:58:42 +1000 > >Brodiaea howellii (which has some other name now) occurs only at one site on >Vancouver Island, according to my botanical friends. I collected a few tiny >bulbs from that site many years ago and (foolishly, as it happened) planted >them in a raised bulb bed. > >Over the years, very few flower stems have formed, none have set seed, but >underground the soil is filled for several feet in all directions >with offsets >formed at the ends of stolons or rhizomes. > >No DNA analysis to confirm my suspicion, but the behavior strongly suggests >I've got a sterile triploid form. Roger, One of the Scilla peruviana (var harrisiana I think?) produces offset bulbils all along the roots, unlike the other varieties I have seen. It flowers too, just as well as the straight species, but it is never going into the ground for me because it would become a weed pretty quickly here I'd imagine. Cheers. Paul T. Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Galanthus, Irises, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! From leo@possi.org Tue Aug 12 20:09:35 2008 Message-Id: <42443.209.180.132.162.1218585962.squirrel@possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Sinningia seed from BX Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:06:02 -0700 (MST) Hello All, In response to the request for followup on Sinningia seed donated by Tsuh Yang Chen to BX 172.... On July 20 I planted the S. amambayensis and S. reitzii I received. I also found and planted what was left in a packet of S. bulbosa he donated way back in PBX 61, May 2004. The bulbosa didn't sprout for me the first time. I stored it under bad conditions... just in a box my house, where it is above 85 degrees for six months and around 50 degrees for six months. I used a 90% perlite - 10% potting soil mix in 6 ounce styrofoam cups, got the soil good and wet with tap water, drained it in the sink overnight, sowed the seeds on the surface, sprayed with tap water, put the cups in zip baggies, and put them under fluorescent lights. All three species sprouted on 8-8-8. I've never sprouted gesneriad seed before so this is an interesting challenge. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From leo@possi.org Tue Aug 12 20:22:17 2008 Message-Id: <42536.209.180.132.162.1218586721.squirrel@possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Tigridia sprouting Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:18:41 -0700 (MST) Hello All, I received Tigridia sp from BX 162: > 25. Tigridia sp. A short-growing species collected near Bejucos > in Mexico State. Found growing in the shade of Crescentia alata > trees in a very hot environment with an extremely pronounced > dry period. Grows in clay soils that flood during the rainy > season but bake in the dry season. I have seen environments like this in Mexico. I planted my seed July 20 in heavy soil and have watered frequently, so it stays quite wet. Nothing yet. Any other suggestions? The Milla magnifica I planted at the same time (in sandy soil) are up. By the way, Uli, if I get flowers on M. m. I intend to provide seed to the BX. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From Clayton3120@cablespeed.com Tue Aug 12 22:08:46 2008 Message-Id: <001001c8fce9$8513dc70$0a428f18@youro0kwkw9jwc> From: "Clayton3120" Subject: Blank Pacific BX 180 Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:08:44 -0700 I'll have the #21, 47 and 103 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 3:51 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Blank Pacific BX 180 > Ouch, so sorry you have to re-compose that. You do so much work already. > It is much appreciated by all of us and I am really aware of how many > hours > you must spend on this. > Thanks, Carolyn > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your > budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 > ) > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From drpaulbear@xtra.co.nz Tue Aug 12 22:24:14 2008 Message-Id: <001801c8fceb$aea7dd50$0301010a@Pauls> From: Subject: narcissus Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:24:15 +1200 A friend has just bought in a flower of a plant that he believes is named Narcissus Telemonius plenus ??? does any body know this one ? From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Wed Aug 13 03:38:20 2008 Message-Id: <6q31p8$8vhn7f@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out3.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: narcissus Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:38:10 +1000 From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Wed Aug 13 03:45:09 2008 Message-Id: <6q31p8$8vhpif@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out3.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: : Narcissus 'Telemonius Plenus' Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:45:03 +1000 Last attempt at sending this seemed to have stripped the contents out. Never had it happen before, so wondering why it happened this time? Weird!! Anyway, this was the message I attempted sending last time..... Cheers. Paul T. ***************************** Original Message ********************************** At 12:24 PM 13/08/2008, you wrote: >A friend has just bought in a flower of a plant >that he believes is named Narcissus Telemonius plenus ??? >does any body know this one ? Doing a quick check on google, it is mentioned quite well. Apparently it is an old "very double" variety of pseudonarcissus called 'Telemonius Plenus' (they quote it that way as the full name). A couple of references that mention it..... Describing it as.... Div IV - "N. 'Wilmot's Double Daffodil' and 'Guernsey Cubbage Daffodil'. An variety from pre-1620! Yellow. Ht. 16 inches." http://shop.bulbmeister.com/fall/wholesale/flower-bulbs-detail/Narcissus-Telemonius-Plenus_5440-1075-25 and also ... http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=242101787 A couple seem to refer to it as a synonym for 'Van Sion'. Couldn't find a picture of it, but didn't look particularly hard. Sounds nice though. I hope this is a help. Cheers. Paul T. Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Galanthus, Irises, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! From dells@voicenet.com Wed Aug 13 07:22:45 2008 Message-Id: <20080813112238.CD12B4C026@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 180 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 07:21:09 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 180" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Alessandro Marinello: SEEDS: 1. Chlorophytum saundersiae 2. Bellevalia romana 3. Ornithogalum pyrenaicum (few) 4. Eremerus himalaicus 5. Cyrtanthus mackenii, red form 6. Cyrtanthus brachyscyphus 7. Nectaroscordum heliophyllum 8. Hippeastrum vittatum 9. Hippeastrum vittatum, red form? 10. Crinum macowanii (few) From Alberto Castillo: 11. Seed of Habranthus "biflorus", a form of H. robustus From Ton de Waard: 12. Seed of Fritillaria imperialis, 'rubra' 13. Seed of Nectaroscordum siculum From Shirley Meneice: 14. Corms of "Ixia, mostly, a few sparaxis may have slipped in" 15. Corms of Chasmanthe floribunda 16. Small bulbs of Amaryllis belladonna, pink and hybrid white, mixed From Jim Jones: 17. Bulbs of Narcissus bulbocodium ssp praecox. Archibald seed from Atlas Mts., January bloom; medium yellow; very productive. 18. Tubers of Arum albispathum (A. italicum ssp albispathum); Monocot Seeds. Off-white, undistinguished spathes in late May; dependable orange fruits in July and August. Thank you, Alessandro, Alberto, Ton, Shirley, and Jim !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Wed Aug 13 08:05:25 2008 Message-Id: <001601c8fd3d$00aae010$4001a8c0@lindaj6m8zgi2a> From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: Pacific BX 180 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 06:06:21 -0600 Good morning Dell, #7, 8, & 9 please. Linda Foulis 6 Maple Street Okotoks, AB T1S 1J6 Canada Thank you -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Dell Sherk Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 5:21 AM To: 'Adam Fikso'; 'c'; DavBouch5@aol.com; Douglas Westfall; General PBS forum; John Lonsdale; 'Macfarlane'; 'Mark'; 'Mark Wilcox'; Pat Colville; The Masterson Family Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 180 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 180" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Alessandro Marinello: SEEDS: 1. Chlorophytum saundersiae 2. Bellevalia romana 3. Ornithogalum pyrenaicum (few) 4. Eremerus himalaicus 5. Cyrtanthus mackenii, red form 6. Cyrtanthus brachyscyphus 7. Nectaroscordum heliophyllum 8. Hippeastrum vittatum 9. Hippeastrum vittatum, red form? 10. Crinum macowanii (few) From Alberto Castillo: 11. Seed of Habranthus "biflorus", a form of H. robustus From Ton de Waard: 12. Seed of Fritillaria imperialis, 'rubra' 13. Seed of Nectaroscordum siculum From Shirley Meneice: 14. Corms of "Ixia, mostly, a few sparaxis may have slipped in" 15. Corms of Chasmanthe floribunda 16. Small bulbs of Amaryllis belladonna, pink and hybrid white, mixed From Jim Jones: 17. Bulbs of Narcissus bulbocodium ssp praecox. Archibald seed from Atlas Mts., January bloom; medium yellow; very productive. 18. Tubers of Arum albispathum (A. italicum ssp albispathum); Monocot Seeds. Off-white, undistinguished spathes in late May; dependable orange fruits in July and August. Thank you, Alessandro, Alberto, Ton, Shirley, and Jim !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From dells@voicenet.com Wed Aug 13 11:34:40 2008 Message-Id: <20080813153431.454EA4C020@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 180 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 11:34:08 -0400 I have received your order. Best regards, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Linda Foulis Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:06 AM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 180 Good morning Dell, #7, 8, & 9 please. Linda Foulis 6 Maple Street Okotoks, AB T1S 1J6 Canada Thank you -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Dell Sherk Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 5:21 AM To: 'Adam Fikso'; 'c'; DavBouch5@aol.com; Douglas Westfall; General PBS forum; John Lonsdale; 'Macfarlane'; 'Mark'; 'Mark Wilcox'; Pat Colville; The Masterson Family Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 180 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 180" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Alessandro Marinello: SEEDS: 1. Chlorophytum saundersiae 2. Bellevalia romana 3. Ornithogalum pyrenaicum (few) 4. Eremerus himalaicus 5. Cyrtanthus mackenii, red form 6. Cyrtanthus brachyscyphus 7. Nectaroscordum heliophyllum 8. Hippeastrum vittatum 9. Hippeastrum vittatum, red form? 10. Crinum macowanii (few) From Alberto Castillo: 11. Seed of Habranthus "biflorus", a form of H. robustus From Ton de Waard: 12. Seed of Fritillaria imperialis, 'rubra' 13. Seed of Nectaroscordum siculum From Shirley Meneice: 14. Corms of "Ixia, mostly, a few sparaxis may have slipped in" 15. Corms of Chasmanthe floribunda 16. Small bulbs of Amaryllis belladonna, pink and hybrid white, mixed From Jim Jones: 17. Bulbs of Narcissus bulbocodium ssp praecox. Archibald seed from Atlas Mts., January bloom; medium yellow; very productive. 18. Tubers of Arum albispathum (A. italicum ssp albispathum); Monocot Seeds. Off-white, undistinguished spathes in late May; dependable orange fruits in July and August. Thank you, Alessandro, Alberto, Ton, Shirley, and Jim !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Wed Aug 13 13:04:35 2008 Message-Id: <26176345.140761218647065690.JavaMail.www@wwinf1c12> From: Mark BROWN Subject: : Narcissus 'Telemonius Plenus' Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:04:25 +0200 (CEST) > Message du 13/08/08 09:45 > De : "Paul T." > A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] re : Narcissus 'Telemonius Plenus " A couple seem to refer to it as a synonym for 'Van Sion'. Couldn't find a picture of it, but didn't look particularly hard. Sounds nice though." Yes you are quite right.This form of Narcissus pseudonarcissus obvallaris probably and has been grown for centuries.I saw it even in W. Turkey high up in the mountains growing in old cemetaries and various gardens.It is indestructable practically.It has been grown in Normandy for a good many years too probably.It is quite a plastic cultivar ,sometimes people think that they have found something new but the next year it reverts usually back to it's old muddled self.But just occasionally the mutation is stable.I know of at least five relatively distinct clones.Some maybe mutants of N.p.obvallaris it'self as is the cultivar known variously as Thomas' Virescent or the Derwydd Daffodill.This is a wild mutation which occurs in Wales,UK.Another one comes from Cornwall.One form of 'Telemonious Plenus' that is fun to try if you can still get it is 'Green Star' at it's best a perfect green star shaped flower. I must say that I feel hard to imagine august daffodils!The first Cyclamen hederifolium album started ten days or so ago.Otherwise Lilium willmottianum is in full glory and the ravishing Dahlia 'Ragged Robin' a Dahlia sherfii hybrid and the D.coccinea hybrid D.'Amber' which is perfectly hardy here although rodents just love it's tubers! From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Aug 13 17:11:20 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Lycoris Olympics ? Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:11:52 -0500 Friends, Maybe it is a sympathetic response to Phelps in Beijing, but some Lycoris here seem to reaching new heights. I mentioned one early L. longituba at 40 in to the base of the inflorescence. Now clumps of them are blooming around 33 inches to the base of the Inflor. Even L. squamigera is around 34 and 35 to the base of the inflor. This seems about 3 - 5 inches taller than 'normal'. Anyone else seeing this happen? Kelly? Still waiting for rain and main event here. ..and anticipating first bloom on a new planting. Said to have been found in a field of L. squamigera it blooms out of synch and slightly of color. A chance seedling? First bloom (I hope) and at least 4 spikes just appearing at soil level. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From kellso@irvincentral.com Wed Aug 13 17:31:47 2008 Message-Id: <48A352B7.4040003@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Lycoris Olympics ? Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:31:35 -0500 Jim: My stock does not appear to be any different in size than usual. L. squamigera are in full bloom here. L. sanguinea gave me several more stalks all of a sudden, not quite open yet. L. longituba gave another bigger batch of stalks about to bloom. L. sprengeri is just getting going, as well as L. xhaywardii, L. xhaywardii x L. longituba (or the other way around, never can remember unless I'm looking right at the marker :( ), L. radiata var. pumila x L. xrosea (or the other way around... again), and what I hope to be true L. incarnata. I have one lone stalk of L. chinensis, so I'm expecting them any day now. Of the spring foliage Lycoris, I'm now still really only waiting on L. chinensis and L. xcaldwellii. I have a number of fall foliage Lycoris I'm still waiting on and can't wait to see. I really prefer the spider lily forms to the trumpet forms. What I don't get is the timing this year. All of it appears to be at least two weeks late compared to normal. I'll have to take a stab at one or both of a cool and wet spring and early summer being the cause of the delay. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ James Waddick wrote: > Anyone else seeing this happen? Kelly? > > From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Wed Aug 13 18:54:39 2008 Message-Id: <6rfke8$ahlq4t@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out2.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: "red" Cyrtanthus mackenii in Pacific BX 180 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:54:23 +1000 > > >From Alessandro Marinello: > >SEEDS: > >5. Cyrtanthus mackenii, red form Alessandro, Is this Cyrtanthus mackenii a red, or is the he normal orangey one? I have seen the normal orangey one regularly referred to as red, which is why I ask. There are also real red forms, which does lead to some confusion when people refer to the orange ones as "red". I thought it was worthwhile asking, just to find out which it is, as I have the orange one but would be interested in seed of it if it is a red form. I have one named red form, but have yet to flower it, so seed from a red would be most excellent. Also after pinks in the mackenii as well (I already have white, yellow, orange etc), plus any other interesting colours. That's why I am asking. Thanks in anticipation Cheers. Paul T. Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Galanthus, Irises, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! From JmsJon664@aol.com Wed Aug 13 21:54:41 2008 Message-Id: <8CACBC7D4163045-14C-2D93@WEBMAIL-MA15.sysops.aol.com> From: jmsjon664@aol.com Subject: scilla peruviana Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 21:54:31 -0400 Thanks to Jim McKenney for setting the record straight on the derivation of Scilla peruviana (named for the ship, the Peru, that brought it to England from its home in the western Mediterranean).  I was misled by Phillips and Rix, who said in 'Bulbs', "Linnaeus thought it came from Peru". Jim Jones From dszeszko@gmail.com Thu Aug 14 10:54:13 2008 Message-Id: <9912b0b60808140754h5b30a316k296b50d781cd327d@mail.gmail.com> From: "Dennis Szeszko" Subject: Tigridia sprouting Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 09:54:11 -0500 Leo: I consulted with a Tigridia expert about this purported "Tigridia" species. He informed me that it was probably not a Tigridia species but another kind of pleated-leaf Irid called, "Cipura". Specifically he mentioned Cipura paludosa as a possible candidate for the identity of this mystery plant and cited as evidence the flooded, marshy conditions in which I found it. I'm not sure why the seed isn't germinating. The only two possibilities that I can think of are: 1) Seed was not ripe when collected and the seeds are immature. Collecting seeds in the field from undehisced pods is a gamble (especially with unknown or unfamiliar species) because you don't know how far along the seeds are in their development. 2) Perhaps the seeds need a period of extreme heat and drought before being watered in order to break dormancy. Congratulations on the Milla germinating, by the way. My plants are growing well this year and I ancticipate copious seed production for the BX exchange. -Dennis I received Tigridia sp from BX 162: > 25. Tigridia sp. A short-growing species collected near Bejucos > in Mexico State. Found growing in the shade of Crescentia alata > trees in a very hot environment with an extremely pronounced > dry period. Grows in clay soils that flood during the rainy > season but bake in the dry season. I have seen environments like this in Mexico. I planted my seed July 20 in heavy soil and have watered frequently, so it stays quite wet. Nothing yet. Any other suggestions? The Milla magnifica I planted at the same time (in sandy soil) are up. By the way, Uli, if I get flowers on M. m. I intend to provide seed to the BX. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From idavide@sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 14 12:44:50 2008 Message-Id: <361794.94446.qm@web81007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Lily seeds Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 09:44:49 -0700 (PDT) A few years ago, I bought some Tango Lilies from Beck’s.  This summer, they produced a spectacular display.  Now, it looks like I have a number of ripening seed pods.  I’d like to collect the seed for the BX.  How can I tell when the pods are ripe – I don’t want to wait for them to dehisce. David Ehrlich From khixson@nu-world.com Thu Aug 14 14:53:16 2008 Message-Id: <48A47F18.1000808@nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Lily seeds Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:53:12 -0700 David Ehrlich wrote: > A few years ago, I bought some Tango Lilies from Beck’s. ... a number of ripening seed pods. ...seed for the BX. How can I tell when the pods are ripe – First, what you have are OP (open pollenated) seeds, and they may not much resemble the parents. Lily seed pods soften as they approach ripness, begin to turn light brown. Then the top of the pod cracks open along three suture lines. Pick them and allow them to finish ripening, someplace dry and with some air circulation. You can open the pods before they are fully dry, and if the seeds are full size and plump, but still white, they are probably good, and if allowed to dry, will be fine. If the seeds are light brown, they are nearly ripe or mature. You can wrap the pods with nylon mesh or cheesecloth, to prevent the pods from fully opening and dispersing the seed--but check for insects, who will enjoy having a protected place to stay and munch. Just be sure the seeds are well dried, or they will mold. A plastic bag usually means mold. Once properly dried, they can be stored for several months in a cool place, or put in a freezer and kept for up to twenty years. Ken From rakkasanbarnett@gmail.com Thu Aug 14 18:30:42 2008 Message-Id: From: "Donald Barnett" Subject: Escobaria alversonii aka Escobaria vivipara ssp. alversonii Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 15:30:39 -0700 Does anyone know where to see escobaria alversonii in the wild? I am looking for a place to take photo's for the book I am writing. Any help would be greatful. I work at the Las Vegas Springs Preserve and it would be strictly for photo's and scientific study not collecting. Thanks Rakkasan From pameladaz@msn.com Thu Aug 14 18:50:07 2008 Message-Id: From: "Pamela Slate" Subject: Escobaria alversonii aka Escobaria vivipara ssp. alversonii Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 15:49:54 -0700 Donald, The New Cactus Lexicon states, for lectotype, that "Mr. Alverson's specimens were collected at McHaney's Mine near 29 Palms, S.B.P. [Parish]." It says in CA, "desert region in the extreme southeast." It lists distribution as AZ and CA. Do you know Scott McMahon, Curator of the Cactus Collection, at Desert Botanical Garden? He might know. Let me know if you need his contact info. If that doesn't work, you can email me off this list and I will try to help you through other people. Hope this helps and good luck. Pamela Slate -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Donald Barnett Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 3:31 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Escobaria alversonii aka Escobaria vivipara ssp. alversonii Does anyone know where to see escobaria alversonii in the wild? I am looking for a place to take photo's for the book I am writing. Any help would be greatful. I work at the Las Vegas Springs Preserve and it would be strictly for photo's and scientific study not collecting. Thanks Rakkasan _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1612 - Release Date: 8/14/2008 6:03 PM From totototo@telus.net Thu Aug 14 19:18:01 2008 Message-Id: <19740418193432.69AF1A323D2EB402@priv-edtnaa15.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Lily seeds Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:09:12 -0700 On 14 Aug 08, at 9:44, David Ehrlich wrote: > A few years ago, I bought some Tango Lilies from Beck’s.  This summer, they > produced a spectacular display.  Now, it looks like I have a number of ripening > seed pods.  I’d like to collect the seed for the BX.  How can I tell when the > pods are ripe – I don’t want to wait for them to dehisce. David Ehrlich Wrap each seed pod in a piece of old panty hose material, fastened around the stem with a twist tie. Dell Scherk will love you (as will those receiving the seeds) if you take the time and trouble to clean your contribution so it is free of chaff, fragments of seedpod, and infertile seed. The easiest method is to put the seed in a shallow dish and *gently* blow the extraneous material away. Or use the stone age method of tossing the material into the air when there's a breeze and letting it blow the junk away. A certain amount of picking out fragments of pod one by one will be necessary, but as the old adage has it, if it's worth doing at all, it's worth doing well. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@telus.net Thu Aug 14 19:18:02 2008 Message-Id: <19740414224424.B79B0813393D39CF@priv-edtnaa15.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Scilla peruviana Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:09:12 -0700 On 13 Aug 08, at 21:54, jmsjon664@aol.com wrote: > Thanks to Jim McKenney for setting the record straight on the derivation of > Scilla peruviana (named for the ship, the Peru, that brought it to England from > its home in the western Mediterranean).  I was misled by Phillips and Rix, who > said in 'Bulbs', "Linnaeus thought it came from Peru". Jim Jones Another error of the same general type: Roy Gender in his fat book "Bulbs" asserts that Chionodoxa sardensis is named in reference to the island of Sardinia. It's actually named after the ancient city of Sardis located in Asia Minor. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Aug 14 19:57:39 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Scilla peruviana - Hardy to Zone ???? Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:58:43 -0500 Friends, Hearing about all these wide spread cultivations, tempts me (of course). What is the cold tolerance of this species. ? Surely the East Coast can't be that much milder than mid-west ? Or am I dreaming? Appreciate your thoughts on absolute hardiness of this much admired species. Thanks for input. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Aug 14 20:01:28 2008 Message-Id: <000f01c8fe6a$72b54550$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Scilla peruviana Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:04:10 -0400 Here’s another example. The late Graham Stuart Thomas, in a discussion of winter-blooming crocuses, wrote “There are several midwinter species…But, truly named, C. imperati lords it over all. For this is a crocus in a regal cloak.” This passage seems to suggest that Thomas thought the specific epithet meant “imperial” or something of the sort. But the crocus is named after the sixteenth century Italian botanist Ferrante Imperato. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From pameladaz@msn.com Thu Aug 14 20:08:09 2008 Message-Id: From: "Pamela Slate" Subject: Scilla peruviana - Hardy to Zone ???? Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:07:57 -0700 Jim, Here in north Scottsdale, Arizona, one would think Scilla peruviana might suffer from heat, not cold, extremes. However, it tolerates water all summer without burying itself (mine are in raised beds in 50% shade) and multiplies and blooms reliably annually. This does not address the question you asked but may supply info on the heat end of the scale. Great plant. Pamela Slate -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James Waddick Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 4:59 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Scilla peruviana - Hardy to Zone ???? Friends, Hearing about all these wide spread cultivations, tempts me (of course). What is the cold tolerance of this species. ? Surely the East Coast can't be that much milder than mid-west ? Or am I dreaming? Appreciate your thoughts on absolute hardiness of this much admired species. Thanks for input. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1612 - Release Date: 8/14/2008 6:03 PM From cameron@haznet.co.za Fri Aug 15 00:35:36 2008 Message-Id: <002a01c8fe90$5f0c0c70$0300000a@mcmasterdae8d5> From: "Cameron McMaster" Subject: Red Cyrtanthus mackenii Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 06:35:07 +0200 Dear all Cyrtanthys brachycyphus is bright red and grows in similar habitats as Cyrtanthyus mackenii in the Eastern Cape (stream sides in riverine forest). It has similar leaves to C. mackenii and also develops many offsets so is easy to multiply. It can easily be confused with mackenii but the flowers are slightly different shape and it flowers a few months later. My experience with wild populations in the Eastern Cape is that C. mackenii is always bright yellow. I have not seen other colour forms in wild poipulations in the region. Cameron McMaster African Bulbs PO Box 26, Napier 7270 South Africa Tel/Fax: 028 423 3651 Mobile: 082 774 2075 Email: africanbulbs@haznet.co.za Website: www.africanbulbs.com From opbungalow@gmail.com Fri Aug 15 15:49:20 2008 Message-Id: <150371710808151249m3188e4aaob513002767d121ff@mail.gmail.com> From: "David Maxwell" Subject: "Hippearyllis"? Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 12:49:18 -0700 Hi All, well, "Naked Lady" season has come again to Sacramento; Amaryllis belladonnas blooming everywhere like road-side weeds. My Hippeastrum 'Exotica' just sent up its last scape of the year, so I thought I would try an intergeneric cross using the 'Exotica' as the seed-parent and an A.belladonna as a pollen-parent. The ovaries of the 'Exotica' look like they're starting to swell...so maybe the cross took. Has anyone tried this crossing before? I read that the name of an intergeneric cross should be a conjunction of the whole or part of one name combined with the whole or part of the other...maybe combined with a connecting vowel. What is the given name of this intergeneric cross..."Hippearyllis"? Has anyone grown/seen a "Hippearyllis"? I'd be curious to know. -d. From idavide@sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 15 17:13:22 2008 Message-Id: <817559.31853.qm@web81002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: "Hippearyllis"? Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:13:21 -0700 (PDT) I applaud your cross -- I've often thought this cross should be made, and never understood why it wasn't.  (Perhaps it has, and I'm just not aware of it.)  Let us all know how it turns out, and if you get enought seed, perhaps you wil share. Good Luck David Ehrlich From jimlykos@optusnet.com.au Fri Aug 15 20:42:32 2008 Message-Id: <004801c8ff38$f67b5b30$e477ecdc@jimlykos> From: "Jim lykos" Subject: "Hippearyllis"? Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 10:42:28 +1000 Hi David, The intergeneric cross between Hippeastrum and Amaryllis has been attempted many times in the past 2 centuries without any apparent success. While these genera have the same basic Chromosome count 2N= 22, I've read a couple of papers comparing the DNA of Hippeastrum species with Amaryllis belladonna where it is reported that there are significant differences in the total chromosome volume and nuclear DNA with A.?belladonna having significantly larger DNA content and possesses a karyotype different from that of Hippeastrum spp. The two genera are similar in general vegetative and floral morphology, but they have important differences in the internal anatomy of leaves, bulbs, and roots and also some significant karyological differences between the two genera. There is probably more hope in crossing Hippeastrums with Crinums for most Crinum species also have the chromosome count of 2N = 22. Cheers Jim Lykos ----- Original Message ----- From: David Maxwell To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 5:49 AM Subject: [pbs] "Hippearyllis"? Hi All, well, "Naked Lady" season has come again to Sacramento; Amaryllis belladonnas blooming everywhere like road-side weeds. My Hippeastrum 'Exotica' just sent up its last scape of the year, so I thought I would try an intergeneric cross using the 'Exotica' as the seed-parent and an A.belladonna as a pollen-parent. The ovaries of the 'Exotica' look like they're starting to swell...so maybe the cross took. Has anyone tried this crossing before? I read that the name of an intergeneric cross should be a conjunction of the whole or part of one name combined with the whole or part of the other...maybe combined with a connecting vowel. What is the given name of this intergeneric cross..."Hippearyllis"? Has anyone grown/seen a "Hippearyllis"? I'd be curious to know. -d. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Aug 15 14:23:45 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080816112510.0173c028@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Scilla peruviana - Hardy to Zone ???? Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 11:26:46 -0700 Scilla peruviana has grown outdoors here in northwestern Oregon for some years, but it doesn't flower every year. We do not use the USDA zones in this area, but a typical winter low is about 17 F/minus 9 C. My plants are in afternoon shade, and when I saw it growing wild, I noticed that it was in scrub and under trees. Jane McGary From dszeszko@gmail.com Mon Aug 18 00:24:52 2008 Message-Id: <9912b0b60808172124g86d04bdo7c92cfd4520770@mail.gmail.com> From: "Dennis Szeszko" Subject: Tigridia matudae Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 23:24:50 -0500 List members: I uploaded pictures to the PBS wiki of an *extremely* rare Tigridia species with blue flowers. I estimate that fewer than 5 people in the world have seen this plant in person, and I'm pleased to have the opportunity to share these pictures of this beautiful flower. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tigridia -Dennis From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Aug 18 10:18:15 2008 Message-Id: <000f01c9013d$a6342d80$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Tigridia matudae Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:21:03 -0400 Thanks, Dennis. When will you have some bulbs for the bulb exchange? (Just kidding!) My gardener’s concept of Tigridia is shaped by T. pavonia. I took a look at the Tigiridia page on the wiki this morning and was reminded of just how diverse the members of this genus are. It intrigues me that Calochortus, Fritillaria and Tigridia seem in some ways to be mimicking one another. Thanks for these wonderful pictures. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where Bessera elegans is putting up an inflorescence. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Aug 18 10:37:53 2008 Message-Id: <001301c90140$62a6c0c0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Sternbergia lutea Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:40:38 -0400 I was visiting in western Virginia last weekend; a friend and I had been discussing how fast this summer seems to be passing. And just then I noticed two or three Sternbergia lutea in bloom. I’ve been watching this planting for years and have never noticed such early bloom. These are two or three weeks earlier than usual. In the same town, there is a relatively massive planting (maybe 4’ x 25’) of this Sternbergia, but no blooms are evident yet in that group. There is so far no sign of bloom among the plants in the home garden. Nor do I see any signs of new growth above ground among the Nerine, Amaryllis belladonna or tender Lycoris in the cold frame. On the other hand, Rhodophiala bifida in the same cold frame has a spathe up at ground level. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where Cardiocrinum cordatum is developing a nice seed pod. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From carlobal@netzero.net Mon Aug 18 11:02:55 2008 Message-Id: <20080818.110034.18151.0@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.net" Subject: Sternbergia lutea Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:00:34 GMT Jim, et al, Lycoris radiata is blooming here with more coming. Always great fun to have them popping up out of almost nowhere. Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com and its BGBlog From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Aug 18 11:20:00 2008 Message-Id: <001901c90146$4a4f2890$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Sternbergia lutea Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:22:54 -0400 Carlo wrote: "Lycoris radiata is blooming here with more coming." Carlo, which form of Lycoris radiata do you have? I don't think the forms I grow have ever bloomed this early - I think of it as an autumnal plant. Are your plants in the garden or in pots? Jim McKenney From carlobal@netzero.net Mon Aug 18 11:53:37 2008 Message-Id: <20080818.115154.6571.0@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.net" Subject: Sternbergia lutea Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:51:54 GMT It came to me as simply Lycoris radiata. I have not keyed it out beyond that (I'll be lucky to photograph it before it's finished...maybe in the next couple of days). It's in the open ground in two similar locations...one in the rock garden, the other on an exposed ridgetop in native soil--both get full sun and bake. It came up in the garden first, but will soon be in bloom in both locations. Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com and its BGBlog -- "Jim McKenney" wrote: Carlo wrote: "Lycoris radiata is blooming here with more coming." Carlo, which form of Lycoris radiata do you have? I don't think the forms I grow have ever bloomed this early - I think of it as an autumnal plant. Are your plants in the garden or in pots? Jim McKenney _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kellso@irvincentral.com Mon Aug 18 12:06:04 2008 Message-Id: <48A99DCE.8060909@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Lycoris radiata Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:05:34 -0500 Jim: I would suggest it is Lycoris radiata var. pumila. I have some just starting to come up. Mine are in the ground in full sun, but they are winter protected, as I don't believe they would otherwise survive a zone 6 winter, being not as hardy as the sterile triploid, Lycoris radiata var. radiata. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ Jim McKenney wrote: > Carlo wrote: "Lycoris radiata is blooming here with more coming." > > Carlo, which form of Lycoris radiata do you have? I don't think the forms I > grow have ever bloomed this early - I think of it as an autumnal plant. > > Are your plants in the garden or in pots? > > Jim McKenney > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From djordan68@comcast.net Mon Aug 18 13:46:23 2008 Message-Id: <5968E80873C34F378914B4621E4C173B@debbiePC> From: "Deborah Jordan" Subject: Lycoris radiata Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:39:02 -0500 Some of them have been blooming here for a week--rainfall from Eduardo after a very dry summer I suspect--no other Lycoris action though Some Sternbergia leaves are up--guess that bunch won't bloom this year. Rhodophiala bifida red is up but not the pink. I hope all this early activity means we might actually have a winter this year. From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Aug 18 14:14:41 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Lycoris radiata ssp Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 13:15:48 -0500 Dear Carolo and all, There are two subspecies of Lycoris radiata. L. radiata ssp radiata is far more common and widely grown. The plants is larger in all parts that the second ssp L. r. pumila (as the name suggests), the plants are hardier and most notably totally sterile. It is a triploid. They multiply prodigiously by bulb division. It is wide spread in the wild and in cultivation. It prefers damp to wet spots such as the edges of rice paddies in China and Japan and swamp and stream edges elsewhere. On the other hand L. radiata ssp pumila is overall smaller, more tender by a Zone or 2 and they routinely produce fertile pea size seed. This ssp. is a bit fussier to grow due to its more tender constitution, some lack of vigor and smaller size. This ssp is confined in the wild to SW to SE China (approx.) also in damp shady spots. It hybridizes readily with various other Lycoris species and produces some lovely hybrids passing its red color to F1 progeny. Both usually bloom around Sept and Oct. It is among the last to bloom here (in years when winters are mild enough and it actually blooms). Could your Lycoris blooming now be some other species? Send me a picture and I might be able to make a guess. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Aug 18 15:25:41 2008 Message-Id: <000c01c90168$9847d200$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Lycoris radiata ssp Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:28:28 -0400 It seems to me that what Jim Waddick is telling us makes a good case for the point of view that the nomenclatural type for Lycoris radiata (L. radiata subsp. radiata) is itself likely of hybrid origin. If the purported diploid form is always smaller and less cold hardy, and if as Jim says it imparts its red color readily to hybrids, then those characteristics make hybrid origin of the common big form likely. The seeming fact that this big triploid form does not correspond exactly to any diploid population strongly suggests a hybrid origin for the big triploid form (or forms). If this proves to be the case, that means that the two commonest Lycoris in cultivation (L. radiata subsp. radiata and L. squamigera) are triploids of hybrid origin (and thus are not species in the modern sense). It also means that the diploid “Lycoris radiata” will need a new name. I hope I’m around to read the definitive studies. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where the first Achimenes of the year are about to bloom. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From bonaventure@optonline.net Mon Aug 18 16:17:17 2008 Message-Id: From: bonaventure@optonline.net Subject: Impatiens tinctoria Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:17:08 +0000 (GMT) Can anyone on this list kindly share their experiences with Impatiens tinctoria, a plant that I again will order from Annie's Annuals and try to keep alive this time. Bonaventure Magrys New Jersey From bonaventure@optonline.net Mon Aug 18 16:22:00 2008 Message-Id: From: bonaventure@optonline.net Subject: Tigridia matudae Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:21:47 +0000 (GMT) Jim McKenney wrote: "It intrigues me that Calochortus, Fritillaria and Tigridia seem in some ways to be mimicking one another." Yes, and Tigridia vanhouttei ssp. vanhoutteiseems to be mimicing the orchid genus Dracula. Bonaventure Magrys From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Aug 18 16:27:24 2008 Message-Id: <001201c90171$3afab190$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Impatiens tinctoria Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:30:17 -0400 I can't help you with Impatiens tinctoria, but now that you have revealed an interest in this genus, can you tell me anything about the likelihood of success with Impatiens namchabarwensis under eastern North American conditions? Bonaventure, are you still in New Jersey? My Pecteilis radiata do not yet show buds: shouldn't they by now? Jim McKenney From Pelarg@aol.com Mon Aug 18 16:48:14 2008 Message-Id: From: Pelarg@aol.com Subject: Impatiens tinctoria Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:48:00 EDT Since I live in NY, my limited experience with I. tinctoria may be relevant to NJ. I received a plant from a very kind source in spring, and potted it up in store brought miracle gro "container mix" plus perlite to improve drainage. The plant grew well during the cooler weather of spring, and also got lopsided, so the end of the main stem tilted and I was able to air layer it by burying part of it in a pot. I did not injure the stem, but I did notice little bumps on the underside that gave me the idea to try and root it. I was successful, and now have two plants. Our summer has been relatively cool and moist, which is what this plant seems to like, but some of the hard rains we have had did damage leaves on the plant, and some muggy weather caused some dieback after I transplanted the bigger one into a significantly larger pot. Right now it is shooting more sprouts from the base, and hopefully is making tubers. Neither plant has flowered yet, but I have hopes for September, which should bring more of the weather it likes. I got a cutting last summer from another generous person while I was visiting California, and despite my very best efforts (recutting, rooting powder, fungicide, etc) , it melted instead of rooting. Never had such trouble trying to root an impatiens. My plants are in pots on the ground in a semishaded area, where they get mainly morning sun, and a bit in the very late afternoon. It is a thirsty plant. Oddly its close cousin I. flanaganii, which I brought back as a cutting from a nursery while in S. Africa years ago, has never given me any grief as far as growing or propagating goes. It is reluctant to flower well, though, but this year it is doing the best I have ever seen, again probably because the weather is cooler than normal. I. flanaganii will grow during our warmer summers too, but sulks and aborts flower buds, but still makes plenty of red potato like tubers, which can be left in the pots and kept in a cool place for winter, or taken out, washed, dried, and put in ziplock bags in the fridge (NOT freezer). I. tinctoria seems to grow well in England by all accounts, so it may be a challenge in much of the USA. Good luck, Ernie DeMarie z6/7 Tuckahoe NY _www.geraniosgarden.blogspot.com_ (http://www.geraniosgarden.blogspot.com) In a message dated 8/18/2008 4:17:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bonaventure@optonline.net writes: Can anyone on this list kindly share their experiences with Impatiens tinctoria, a plant that I again will order from Annie's Annuals and try to keep alive this time. Bonaventure Magrys New Jersey _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 ) From carlobal@netzero.net Mon Aug 18 16:52:14 2008 Message-Id: <20080818.165101.29585.0@webmail12.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.net" Subject: Impatiens tinctoria Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:51:01 GMT I too am interested in the genus Impatiens. I've had both species mentioned and still have several others. I have not had raging success, but have bloomed I. namchabarwensis here in New York. They don't like it too warm and the combination of heat and water appears nearly instantaneously fatal. Next try will be in the cooled air of a dwelling, or in a basement. Carlo From karlachandler@bbg.org Mon Aug 18 16:58:00 2008 Message-Id: <5BF707B7ED37FE4BBD274D3BA180C6110182FF6A@Boston.home.bbg.org> From: "Chandler, Karla" Subject: washed river sand Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:57:42 -0400 I am propagating my own SA bulb seeds this fall. Could someone suggest the grade or particle size that has worked the best for them? I am having trouble finding "river sand" and the industrial sand comes in different sizes. Thanks, Karla ******************************************** Karla Chandler Curator of Helen Mattin Warm Temperate Pavilion Brooklyn Botanic Garden 1000 Washington Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11225 phone: 718-623-7200 x 6400 fax: 718-622-7847 http://www.bbg.org ******************************************** From Pelarg@aol.com Mon Aug 18 16:58:48 2008 Message-Id: From: Pelarg@aol.com Subject: Impatiens tinctoria Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:58:40 EDT Jim, Just after I sent a reply about I. tinctoria, I see your question about I. namchabarwensis. The Tibetan blue impatiens is very easy for me, I have had it for three years, and it reseeds prolifically in my garden. It is an annual, despite some descriptions to the contrary, and likes what most other impatiens like-moisture, shade and cooler weather. It is more heat tolerant than some others, though, merely stopping flowering during very hot weather (consistent 90's F), but since that hasn't happened this summer, it has been in bloom from June to now. It does not like when the weather gets really cold, like in October, and will die when frosted. The flowers are borne rather close to the leaves, so it is not as showy as more common impatiens, but is nice nonetheless. It roots readily from cuttings and will produce seed easily, bumblebees are fond of it. If too dry, it is susceptible to spider mites (ditto if you try to keep plants over winter indoors). I have discussed this species in detail several months ago in my blog (below). Ernie DeMarie Tuckahoe NY z6/7 _www.geraniosgarden.blogspot.com_ (http://www.geraniosgarden.blogspot.com) In a message dated 8/18/2008 4:29:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com writes: I can't help you with Impatiens tinctoria, but now that you have revealed an interest in this genus, can you tell me anything about the likelihood of success with Impatiens namchabarwensis under eastern North American conditions? Bonaventure, are you still in New Jersey? My Pecteilis radiata do not yet show buds: shouldn't they by now? Jim McKenney _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Aug 18 16:56:58 2008 Message-Id: <001301c90175$5d4c1b40$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Impatiens tinctoria Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:59:48 -0400 Carlo, how was the flower color on I. namchabarwensis? I've read that in hot climates, when it blooms at all, the color is apt to be more purple than blue. Jim McKenney From carlobal@netzero.net Mon Aug 18 17:04:03 2008 Message-Id: <20080818.170240.29585.2@webmail12.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.net" Subject: Impatiens tinctoria Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:02:40 GMT Jim, It was a nice blue for me... Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com and its BGBlog -- "Jim McKenney" wrote: Carlo, how was the flower color on I. namchabarwensis? I've read that in hot climates, when it blooms at all, the color is apt to be more purple than blue. Jim McKenney _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Aug 18 17:17:13 2008 Message-Id: <001e01c90178$2d05fc00$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Impatiens tinctoria Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:20:00 -0400 OK, now tell me about garden effect of Impatiens namchabarwensis. Is the color impact on the order of that of Asiatic Dayflower (Commelina communis) or is it better? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From dells@voicenet.com Mon Aug 18 17:22:40 2008 Message-Id: <20080818212230.19E6A4C019@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: washed river sand Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:22:12 -0400 Dear Karla, Mine is not a scientific solution, and you are, but I've tried all of the commercial products that I could find here in SE PA, and the best thing I've found is sand that collects in the "sand bars" in the little meandering stream near me. It is a mixture of particle sizes, and the larger ones seem to be on top of the piles. If I want it to be particularly coarse (is that a pun?), I sift it through window screen and save the stuff that doesn't pass through. I assume that you could do the same thing with river sand (maybe not sand from the East River!) Dell -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Chandler, Karla Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:58 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] washed river sand I am propagating my own SA bulb seeds this fall. Could someone suggest the grade or particle size that has worked the best for them? I am having trouble finding "river sand" and the industrial sand comes in different sizes. Thanks, Karla ******************************************** Karla Chandler Curator of Helen Mattin Warm Temperate Pavilion Brooklyn Botanic Garden 1000 Washington Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11225 phone: 718-623-7200 x 6400 fax: 718-622-7847 http://www.bbg.org ******************************************** _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Mon Aug 18 17:58:29 2008 Message-Id: <00cf01c9017d$8953cc80$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Impatiens tinctoria Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:58:23 +0100 I am very familiar with Impatiens tinctoria both in cultivation and the wild and think it's a fabulous plant. If you don't know it, it's a big herbaceous perennial, with large fleshy tuberous roots, easily getting to 2 m in a season if amply wet, and where frost-free its fleshy stems survive for some time and can become almost woody. I have seen it up to 3 m + in the wild. The leaves are largish, ovate-lanceolate, dark green, and the flowers hang over them like big white butterflies. The flowers are principally formed of two large white lower petals, marked with red in their centre, and have a long spur at the back. They are strongly scented, particularly in the evening, and are evidently moth-pollinated. I think that I've mentioned before that I believe it forms part of a pollination syndrome with Gladiolus callianthus. The weather has been so foul this year that we haven't had much opportunity to sit out by the pond in an evening and enjoy its scent, but this is a feature that makes it well worth growing. In the wild it grows in wet places in the mountains of East Africa, from Ethiopia south to southern Tanzania, with various subspecies varying principally on the size of the flower, spur length etc, and with some geographical distinctions (see Grey-Wilson, 'Impatiens of Africa', 1980). Despite searching for it elsewhere, I have seen it only in Kenya, in the Cherangani Hills and on Mt Kenya, both times growing in and at the edge of running water in open forest conditions. This is not a plant that likes heat or drought! In Kenya it is represented by subsp. elegantissima, and I believe that this is the only subspecies in cultivation. So far as I know, most material in (at least British) gardens derives from a collection made by an expedition to Mt Elgon and Rwenzori on which Patrick Synge was a member - in 1930, I think. Thereabouts, anyway. He wrote a book about it ('Mountains of the Moon', 1938, but reprinted) that is well worth reading. I. tinctoria can be treated as a hardy perennial in British gardens at present, with no special attention needed, though I usually insulate the crown with some cut-down fern and soil on top - but that is perhaps just a legacy of when we had colder winters and it may not be so necessary now. I do think, however, that one has to strike a balance between its requirement for moisture in summer and not getting the roots too wet in winter, so I grow it in juicy soil adjacent to the pond, rather than in the boggiest areas. In a dry, hot year it can look a bit scraggy, but soon recovers with autumnal coolness and moisture. All growth above ground is killed by frost, but it reappears vigorously in spring. There is usually a crop of flowers in about June, followed by a lull in the heat of summer, then a magnificent show through September and October. This year, however, it has flowered constantly, as there has been no heat to put it off. In my experience there are very few Impatiens that like heat - commercial I. walleriana's tolerance of it is probably in part a result of selection, though as a wild plant it grows at lowish altitudes - and the montane African species hate it. I. tinctoria very seldom sets good seed here and I've never seen a self-sown seedling (one of very few non-prolific Impatiens in my garden), but in Cape Town a cutting from my original plant is prolific with seedlings. It is easily propagated from cuttings, but these should have a heel for best chance of success, and be taken in plenty of time for the plant to make a tuber before winter. Spring cuttings from the emerging shoots, taken as one would a Dahlia cutting, are very successful. Ernie DeMarie mentioned its relative, I. flanaganae from the coast of the Eastern Cape, which has lovely pink flowers on a lower plant. This survives outdoors here as tubers, but doesn't make a good plant: I think this does need a bit more warmth to get it growing. A third member of the clan is I. rothii, from Ethiopia, with smaller, salmony-pink flowers on a thick bush, also growing from thick tubers. It has surprised me by being fully hardy here since 2004, unprotected in the open border and just getting bigger and better every year. Originally only two seedlings germinated: one went to the National Collection holder and I kept the other. Now it self-sows like mad and I have to weed out seedlings - as I do for most species! To conclude this brief account of the group I should mention that there is also I. polhillii from southern Tanzania, with white flowers - I've never seen this - and I. fischeri from Kenyan forests with comparatively small, bright blood-red flowers, which I have lost, unfortunately. There are a number of hardy perennial Impatiens from Asian forests, but I. namchabarwensis is an annual with lovely flowers but terrible self-sowing capacity. I weed it out in barrowloads. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 9:17 PM Subject: [pbs] Impatiens tinctoria > Can anyone on this list kindly share their experiences with Impatiens > tinctoria, a plant that I again will order from Annie's Annuals and try to > keep alive this time. > > Bonaventure Magrys > New Jersey > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.4/1617 - Release Date: 17/08/2008 > 12:58 > > From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Aug 18 18:46:20 2008 Message-Id: <002301c90184$a4c981b0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Impatiens tinctoria Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:49:15 -0400 Thank you, John, for all of that information about Impatiens tinctoria. However, so far no one participating in this thread has answered the other question which has been on my mind. Can someone tell us why it was named tinctoria? Is it a source of a dye? Jim McKenney From JmsJon664@aol.com Mon Aug 18 19:16:37 2008 Message-Id: <8CACF9F921A7625-EA8-2D43@WEBMAIL-MA15.sysops.aol.com> From: jmsjon664@aol.com Subject: Scilla peruviana Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:16:25 -0400 In response to Jim Waddick's query about hardiness: Scilla peruviana has survived lows of minus 11 F. with scant snow cover.  It's hardly been rampant but it's been around for some 15 yrs. Jim Jones From idavide@sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 18 19:31:34 2008 Message-Id: <568240.33172.qm@web81001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Impatiens namchabarwensis Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Carlo --   I can't understand why your plant doesn't care for warm weather.  I've only had mine for a few months; it is flourishing, growing large and blooming profusely in Bay Area weather (warm dry days, cool moist nights).  I have it in a sunny position, but I originally intended it for a shady place, where it will go soon. David Ehrlich From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Mon Aug 18 20:16:04 2008 Message-Id: <48AA10C1.4080701@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Impatiens namchabarwensis Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:16:01 -0700 I get the sense that I. namchabarwensis is sensitive to how cool the nights are during the summer. To most people in the U.S. who have never visited the Bay Area, they have no idea how much it cools down there at night right through July and August. I have killed this species three summers in row now. [Does that mean I can now stop trying to grow it?] They do fine in the spring and fall here in Southern Calif. (BTW, for those who grow fruit trees, I believe that the Bay Area is the only place in the entire U.S. where you can successfully grow and fruit both orange trees and cherry trees simultaneously in the same location, if that gives you an idea of the Bay Area's climate.) This makes me very curious about the climate in that canyon (Tsangpo Gorge), purportedly the largest/deepest in the world and very recently (re-)discovered. ["The canyon has a length of about 150 miles as the gorge bends around Mount Namcha Barwa (7756 m) and cuts its way through the eastern Himalayan range. Its waters drop from 3,000 m near Pe to about 300 m at the end of the gorge. "] Sounds like an amazing place to try visiting one day (if they don't dam it first). --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a David Ehrlich wrote: > Carlo -- > I can't understand why your plant doesn't care for warm weather. I've only had mine for a few months; it is flourishing, growing large and blooming profusely in Bay Area weather (warm dry days, cool moist nights). I have it in a sunny position, but I originally intended it for a shady place, where it will go soon. > > David Ehrlich > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From puppincuff@cox.net Mon Aug 18 20:30:29 2008 Message-Id: <005301c90192$ba1856a0$6401a8c0@Office> From: "chuck schwartz" Subject: washed river sand Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:30:05 -0700 I use #30 silica sand. It comes in 90 lb. sacks for $6. chuck Schwartz San Clemente, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chandler, Karla" To: Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 1:57 PM Subject: [pbs] washed river sand >I am propagating my own SA bulb seeds this fall. Could someone suggest > the grade or particle size that has worked the best for them? I am > having trouble finding "river sand" and the industrial sand comes in > different sizes. > Thanks, > Karla > > ******************************************** > Karla Chandler > Curator of Helen Mattin Warm Temperate Pavilion > Brooklyn Botanic Garden > 1000 Washington Avenue > Brooklyn, NY 11225 > > phone: 718-623-7200 x 6400 > fax: 718-622-7847 > http://www.bbg.org > ******************************************** > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From totototo@telus.net Tue Aug 19 16:32:13 2008 Message-Id: <19740415012840.575006353C0992FD@priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Impatiens namchabarwensis Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:36:22 -0700 On 18 Aug 08, at 17:16, Lee Poulsen wrote: > This makes me very curious about the climate in that canyon (Tsangpo > Gorge), purportedly the largest/deepest in the world and very recently > (re-)discovered. ["The canyon has a length of about 150 miles as the > gorge bends around Mount Namcha Barwa (7756 m) and cuts its way through > the eastern Himalayan range. Its waters drop from 3,000 m near Pe to > about 300 m at the end of the gorge. "] Sounds like an amazing place to > try visiting one day (if they don't dam it first). Google Maps can be used to trace out the route of the river using satellite imagery. The Tsangpo flows from west to east at the north foot of the main range of the Himalaya. If you can't spot this by eye, use the Google Maps search box to position yourself on Lhasa, then follow the Kyi-chu river first west then south and west to its junction with the Tsangpo. Then follow the Tsangpo east (downstream). It eventually gets into some very hairy mountainous territory as it does as hairpin loop around the foot of Namcha Barwa, eventually turning generally southwards and emerging from the mountains in Assam, where it has the name Brahmaputra. It's not easy to trace its route around Namcha Barwa but if you zoom in fairly closely and take your time you can mark out the route. It helps to have a Google ID so you can create a map with the route of the river marked. Frank Kingdon Ward's book "The Riddle of the Tsangpo Gorges" will shed further light, as will some other travelogues set in Tibet before WWII. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Tue Aug 19 04:34:47 2008 Message-Id: <001c01c901d6$6dffa770$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Impatiens tinctoria Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:34:41 +0100 To answer Jim McKenney's question "Can someone tell us why it was named > tinctoria? Is it a source of a dye?" I turned to the 'Flora of Ethiopia > and Eritrea'. This remarkable work says: 'Women cook and pound the tubers into a paste which has a strong red dye in it. The paste is applied to the palms of the hands and to the feet where it turns the skin and nails black and shiny. This treatment helps control fungal infections as well as toughen the skin. It is considered a beauty treatment similar to that of henna.' I think that the prospect of black finger nails does not warrant experimenting with my plants. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 From carlobal@netzero.com Tue Aug 19 07:45:57 2008 Message-Id: <20080819.074350.22736.0@webmail12.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.com" Subject: Impatiens namchabarwensis Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 11:43:50 GMT David, I suspect it's the difference in night temperatures that is the problem. As Lee noted, the Bay area (my daughter lives in San Francisco) is more "temperate" than New York in this respect: the nights here can stay quite warm and humid. I think that the plants don't get a chance to recover from their days exertions. Moreover the soil pathogens are encouraged by the moist heat and do their dastardly best to bring the plant down. Carlo Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com and its BGBlog From carlobal@netzero.com Tue Aug 19 07:49:13 2008 Message-Id: <20080819.074758.22736.1@webmail12.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.com" Subject: Impatiens namchabarwensis in the garden Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 11:47:58 GMT I think it would be much better than Commelina (which is a thug here--although I do grow a nice variegated clone for foliage interest). I. namchabarwensis flowers are larger and showier in all respects. I will be growing it again... And to continue my reply to David's post, part of my problem (in addition to the warm nights of last summer) may have been that I kept it potted. Although it would need to perpetuate itself by reseeding (Ernie noted that it appears to be an annual anyway), it may do better in the open ground where moisture is more regulated and its roots don't heat up so much. I'm beginning to think that some of these more "special" impatiens just don't like to be potted. Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com and its BGBlog -- "Jim McKenney" wrote: OK, now tell me about garden effect of Impatiens namchabarwensis. Is the color impact on the order of that of Asiatic Dayflower (Commelina communis) or is it better? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From silverhill@yebo.co.za Tue Aug 19 08:37:01 2008 Message-Id: <067201c901f8$3e5f25f0$1400a8c0@server01> From: "Rachel Saunders" Subject: washed river sand Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:36:45 +0200 Dear Karla We use swimming pool filter sand and that works well. Regards Rachel Saunders Silverhill Seeds and Books Tel: +27 21 762 4245 Fax: +27 21 797 6609 PO Box 53108, Kenilworth, 7745 South Africa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chandler, Karla" To: Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 10:57 PM Subject: [pbs] washed river sand >I am propagating my own SA bulb seeds this fall. Could someone suggest > the grade or particle size that has worked the best for them? I am > having trouble finding "river sand" and the industrial sand comes in > different sizes. > Thanks, > Karla > > ******************************************** > Karla Chandler > Curator of Helen Mattin Warm Temperate Pavilion > Brooklyn Botanic Garden > 1000 Washington Avenue > Brooklyn, NY 11225 > > phone: 718-623-7200 x 6400 > fax: 718-622-7847 > http://www.bbg.org > ******************************************** > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.5/1619 - Release Date: 8/18/2008 > 5:39 PM > > > From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Aug 19 18:31:11 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080819155015.0172a800@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: washed river sand Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:55:58 -0700 The only kind of sand you have to avoid in a seed mix is very silty, fine-grained sand such as comes from low down on a river. (Of course, you would not use beach sand either.) "Builder's sand" or "concrete sand" should do. If you feel that it has too many fines, put it in a fine sieve and run water through it, or just put it in a large container and run a hose hard into it for awhile until the fines flow out with the water. I grow a number of bulbs from western South America and just plant them in my ordinary seed sowing mix, which is about equal parts of coarse river sand (easily obtained here), ground pumice, and peat. I almost never make a special seed sowing soil for a particular plant, except very fine seeds and Meconopsis. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA At 04:57 PM 8/18/2008 -0400, you wrote: >I am propagating my own SA bulb seeds this fall. Could someone suggest >the grade or particle size that has worked the best for them? I am >having trouble finding "river sand" and the industrial sand comes in >different sizes. From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Aug 19 19:42:29 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Schizobasis intricata Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:43:43 -0500 Dear Friends, I confess a mini-obsession - let's call it 'fascination' with succulent plants. I was at the local Cactus and Succulent show to enjoy the variety* when I saw a new plant (many actually). This plant is Schizobasis intricata a bulbous Liliaceae superficially similar to the common Boweia volubilis, but 'more so'. Does any know or grow this plant? Is it difficult to cultivate? The annual herbaceous growth is even more finely divided than in Boweia and it seems to bloom easily with tiny white flowers. Appreciate any thoughts. Jim W. * Confession I bought two small Adenium obesum cvs, but wanted more. Oh well . -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From rherold@yahoo.com Tue Aug 19 20:19:20 2008 Message-Id: <48AB6304.6000508@yahoo.com> From: Roy Herold Subject: Schizobasis intricata Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:19:16 -0400 Jim, What a coincidence, there was a nice Schizobasis intricatus in *our* cactus and succulent show this past weekend, and it got a blue ribbon. This is an easy bulb to grow, and can be treated similar to boweia. It may or may not go dormant in hot weather--the one in our show did not, but mine did. The flowers are exceedingly self fertile, and each will produce seed without an active pollinator. I would have sent some of mine into the BX, but they always drop before I can collect any. There were a number of other nice bulb/corm/tuber entries in our show that did a good job of balancing out the succulents and cacti. Haemanthus, boophane, scilla, bulbine, gethyllis, eucomis (my vandermerwei got a ribbon), sinningia, boweia (not volubilis but rarer ones like nana), etc. Nice to see these folks are branching out a bit, so to speak. --Roy James Waddick wrote: > Dear Friends, > I confess a mini-obsession - let's call it 'fascination' with > succulent plants. I was at the local Cactus and Succulent show to > enjoy the variety* when I saw a new plant (many actually). This plant > is Schizobasis intricata a bulbous Liliaceae superficially similar > to the common Boweia volubilis, but 'more so'. > > Does any know or grow this plant? Is it difficult to > cultivate? The annual herbaceous growth is even more finely divided > than in Boweia and it seems to bloom easily with tiny white flowers. > > Appreciate any thoughts. Jim W. > > > > * Confession I bought two small Adenium obesum cvs, but wanted more. Oh well . From othonna@gmail.com Tue Aug 19 20:34:26 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260808191734u56b85454m809a72326c6f6f49@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Schizobasis intricata Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 17:34:25 -0700 Schizobasis is generally considered to comprise only one species, S. intricata, but a modest sampling from different localities shows there are probably at least two taxa (species or subspecies) involved. The form most often seen has greenish flowers with an ovoid perianth that seems to open only very slightly (nocturnal?); these flowers may be autogamous or self-pollinating, so to speak. Growth habit may be lax and sprawling and highly branched or small (only 3-4" tall 10 years from seed) and compact and upright. I have one clustering form from Tanzania that is well-branched and upright. The most attractive Schizobasis I have seen is also interesting in that the flowers are very different from those described above. They are white, pendent, decidedly delicate-looking and with perianth segments spreading. It seems never to set seed (of course) and the foliage is a compact mass of extremely fine, angular branches of the inflorescence. The bulbs can be large, lemon-sized, whereas the bulbs of the first form only grow to about walnut size. Culture of these strange bulbs is straightforward: keep on the dry side in winter and frost free. They can be more or less evergreen and prefer some shade. They don't need much root room or organic matter and are good candidates for 'succulent culture'. Dylan Hannon Dylan Hannon Rare Bulbs On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 4:43 PM, James Waddick wrote: > Dear Friends, > I confess a mini-obsession - let's call it 'fascination' with > succulent plants. I was at the local Cactus and Succulent show to > enjoy the variety* when I saw a new plant (many actually). This plant > is Schizobasis intricata a bulbous Liliaceae superficially similar > to the common Boweia volubilis, but 'more so'. > > Does any know or grow this plant? Is it difficult to > cultivate? The annual herbaceous growth is even more finely divided > than in Boweia and it seems to bloom easily with tiny white flowers. > > Appreciate any thoughts. Jim W. > > > > * Confession I bought two small Adenium obesum cvs, but wanted more. Oh > well . > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From JmsJon664@aol.com Tue Aug 19 20:39:27 2008 Message-Id: <8CAD0744E414638-1160-5804@webmail-ne16.sysops.aol.com> From: jmsjon664@aol.com Subject: Scilla peruviana Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:39:14 -0400 Responding to Adam Fisko: I got mine at a local nursery that has since gone out of business; I have no info on its background.  It grows in not very rich, fast-draining soil.  I haven't paid it much attention in terms of seeds or increase - it's a fairly minor component of the garden - but certainly shall in the future.  (And I've never succeeded with any Eucomis outside, though I'm in the process of trying again). Jim Jones From samarak@gizmoworks.com Tue Aug 19 22:45:11 2008 Message-Id: From: Steve Marak Subject: Schizobasis intricata Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:45:09 -0500 (CDT) Jim, I picked up one of these at a cactus and succulent show several years ago (I have a similar fascination for such things) and also have found it to be easy and undemanding. Frost free, of course, and in my climate (NW Arkansas, USA) shaded during mid-day but fairly high light in the morning, as long as watering isn't extreme either way it seems quite happy in a standard fast-draining mix. Mine seems to be the typical form and not the unusual one Dylan mentioned. It's never gone dormant, even when the days hit 38 C (100 F) outdoors and at least 43 C (110 F) in the corner of the greenhouse where the C&S live. It flowers frequently and as Roy noted every flower seems to produce seed. I've collected some (it is an exercise in patience) to send to the BX; I've held off because I wasn't sure how viable it was - you'd think I'd have this everywhere by now, with all the seed that's gotten away, but only a couple. (Unlike the Anacampseros arachnoides I got at the same time - similarly self-fertile but every single seed of that germinates. Not a bulb, but if anyone wants any I can almost supply wholesale quantities.) Steve On Tue, 19 Aug 2008, Roy Herold wrote: > Jim, > > What a coincidence, there was a nice Schizobasis intricatus in *our* > cactus and succulent show this past weekend, and it got a blue ribbon. > This is an easy bulb to grow, and can be treated similar to boweia. It > may or may not go dormant in hot weather--the one in our show did not, > but mine did. The flowers are exceedingly self fertile, and each will > produce seed without an active pollinator. I would have sent some of > mine into the BX, but they always drop before I can collect any. ... > > --Roy > > James Waddick wrote: > > I confess a mini-obsession - let's call it 'fascination' with > > succulent plants. I was at the local Cactus and Succulent show to > > enjoy the variety* when I saw a new plant (many actually). This plant > > is Schizobasis intricata a bulbous Liliaceae superficially similar > > to the common Boweia volubilis, but 'more so'. > > > > Does any know or grow this plant? Is it difficult to > > cultivate? The annual herbaceous growth is even more finely divided > > than in Boweia and it seems to bloom easily with tiny white flowers. -- Steve Marak -- samarak@gizmoworks.com From totototo@telus.net Wed Aug 20 14:39:31 2008 Message-Id: <19740415012840.1F3927253D3CFAB7@priv-edmwaa15.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: washed river sand Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:43:41 -0700 On 19 Aug 08, at 15:55, Jane McGary wrote: > . . . you would not use [saltwater] beach sand Technical detail: You can't get rid of the salt in beach sand by simply washing it. During its long immersion in salt water, sodium ions have gradually penentrated the crystal lattice of the minerals comprising the sand. Removed to a freshwater environment (i.e. in a flowerpot), saltwater beach sand then gradually releases this sodium over a very long period of time. Listen to what Jane says, people, heed her words. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Aug 20 00:36:48 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Was: Scilla peruviana, now Hardy Eucomis Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:26:42 -0500 >Responding to Adam Fisko: I got mine at a local nursery that has >since gone out of business;.... (And I've never succeeded with any >Eucomis outside, though I'm in the process of trying again). Dear Jim, I have had success with E. bicolor outdoors here and urge you to try that species, too. Slow to emerge, but most reliable. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Aug 20 00:36:54 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Schizobasis intricata Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:29:01 -0500 >What a coincidence, there was a nice Schizobasis intricatus in *our* >cactus and succulent show this past weekend, Dear Roy, and all. Coincidence indeed. A shared obsession. Please collect a few seeds for the SeedEx , seedling bulbs or other. And my address is always given at the end of my emails (hint). A web search indicated 5 species*, but not much detail on most. Seems like S. intricata is the most commonly seen. Same with Boweia- a number of species, but B. volubilis the most common. I was surprised to see a range of 'bulbous' plants appear in the succulent sections including Gethyllis, Scilla, Begonia and quite a few others. Hard to quite make a distinction when cauduciform plants are grown so that underground parts that are 'normally' hidden are exposed and appear bulbous. Thanks to all. Jim W. * http://www.aluka.org/action/showCompilationPage?doi=10.5555/AL.AP.COMPILATION.PLANT-NAME-GENUS.SCHIZOBASIS has pictures of 4 species. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From zigur@hotmail.com Wed Aug 20 00:54:11 2008 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: What is a succulent - was Schizobasis intricata Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:53:56 -0700 Aren't most bulbs/corms/tubers water (as well a other things) storage organs, and so technically succulent? T> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:29:01 -0500> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> From: jwaddick@kc.rr.com> Subject: Re: [pbs] Schizobasis intricata> > >What a coincidence, there was a nice Schizobasis intricatus in *our*> >cactus and succulent show this past weekend,> > Dear Roy, and all.> Coincidence indeed. A shared obsession. Please collect a few > seeds for the SeedEx , seedling bulbs or other.> > And my address is always given at the end of my emails (hint).> > A web search indicated 5 species*, but not much detail on > most. Seems like S. intricata is the most commonly seen. Same with > Boweia- a number of species, but B. volubilis the most common.> > I was surprised to see a range of 'bulbous' plants appear in > the succulent sections including Gethyllis, Scilla, Begonia and quite > a few others. Hard to quite make a distinction when cauduciform > plants are grown so that underground parts that are 'normally' hidden > are exposed and appear bulbous.> > Thanks to all. Jim W.> > > * > http://www.aluka.org/action/showCompilationPage?doi=10.5555/AL.AP.COMPILATION.PLANT-NAME-GENUS.SCHIZOBASIS> > has pictures of 4 species.> -- > Dr. James W. Waddick> 8871 NW Brostrom Rd.> Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711> USA> Ph. 816-746-1949> Zone 5 Record low -23F> Summer 100F +> > _______________________________________________> pbs mailing list> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kellso@irvincentral.com Wed Aug 20 06:31:53 2008 Message-Id: <48ABF28B.9020304@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Was: Scilla peruviana, now Hardy Eucomis Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 05:31:39 -0500 Jim: Eucomis bicolor has appeared the most tender here compared to E. autumnalis, E. comosa, E. montana, and E. pole-evansii. Do you plant your Eucomis deeply? Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ James Waddick wrote: >> Responding to Adam Fisko: I got mine at a local nursery that has >> since gone out of business;.... (And I've never succeeded with any >> Eucomis outside, though I'm in the process of trying again). >> > > Dear Jim, > I have had success with E. bicolor outdoors here and urge you > to try that species, too. Slow to emerge, but most reliable. > > Best Jim W. > From totototo@telus.net Wed Aug 20 21:34:53 2008 Message-Id: <19740414223344.262729013C287494@priv-edtnaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Potting Trillium hibbersonii Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 03:39:03 -0700 This last year at long last I've acquired starts of Trillium hibbersonii. I've kept them in the pots they came in, except one which I potted up in pumice. As I may have reported to the PBS mailing list earlier, my botanical friends tell me that T. hibbersonii must not be fertilized: fertilizer easily kills the plants. They further tell me that it is indigenous to rather wet, peaty, probably nutrient-deficient soil on the rain-soaked west coast of Vancouver Island. I may not get another chance to acquire this charming dwarf trillium so I want to give it optimum conditions. I'm planning on potting all my specimens into one pot. What do other PBS list subscribers use as a potting medium for this trillium? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@telus.net Wed Aug 20 21:34:53 2008 Message-Id: <19740415012840.3AF93B12300B9F58@priv-edtnaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Tecophilaea from seed Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 03:39:03 -0700 I have just harvested 3 capsules (32 seeds in toto) of Tecophilaea cyanocrocus leichtlinii and now I'm wondering just what the optimum sowing protocol might be. Years ago I found a web page that said the seeds do best sown in a peaty mix even though mature bulbs prefer a mix rich in minerals, but it's anybody's guess if that's accurate. I also understand that seedling tecophilaea is extremely slow to reach maturity. This implies that they need careful handling for some years. Any and all comments welcome, but preferably based on first hand experience. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From carlobal@netzero.com Wed Aug 20 07:30:47 2008 Message-Id: <20080820.072900.14849.0@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.com" Subject: Schizobasis intricata Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:29:00 GMT Schizobasis intricata is a favorite of mine...and even after sharing seed with friends, I've got some available. Interested parties can email privately (until the supply runs out...). Carlo Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com and its BGBlog -- James Waddick wrote: >What a coincidence, there was a nice Schizobasis intricatus in *our* >cactus and succulent show this past weekend, Dear Roy, and all. Coincidence indeed. A shared obsession. Please collect a few seeds for the SeedEx , seedling bulbs or other. And my address is always given at the end of my emails (hint). A web search indicated 5 species*, but not much detail on most. Seems like S. intricata is the most commonly seen. Same with Boweia- a number of species, but B. volubilis the most common. I was surprised to see a range of 'bulbous' plants appear in the succulent sections including Gethyllis, Scilla, Begonia and quite a few others. Hard to quite make a distinction when cauduciform plants are grown so that underground parts that are 'normally' hidden are exposed and appear bulbous. Thanks to all. Jim W. * http://www.aluka.org/action/showCompilationPage?doi=10.5555/AL.AP.COMPILATION.PLANT-NAME-GENUS.SCHIZOBASIS has pictures of 4 species. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From arnold@nj.rr.com Wed Aug 20 07:39:53 2008 Message-Id: <48AC01D8.5020300@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Schizobasis intricata Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 07:36:56 -0400 To add to the discussion or is it confusion. Kubitzki states there are nine species "southern Africa to Angola and Zimbabwe. Also states" Bulbs formed by imbricate bulb leaves" Arnold \ New Jersey From dells@voicenet.com Wed Aug 20 08:15:31 2008 Message-Id: <20080820121105.4A16B4C0C3@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 181 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:10:37 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 181" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Mary Sue Ittner: BULBS: (some of these are not blooming size): 1. Ferraria crispa 2. Gladiolus alatus cormlets 3. Herbertia lahue grown from 3 sources of seed labeled as other things 4. Lachenalia aloides var. vanzyliae -- this variety has part turquoise flowers 5. Lachenalia liliflora 6. Lachenalia longituba, syn. Polyxena longituba-- increases rapidly, flowers in the fall 7. Lachenalia mutabilis 8. Lachenalia orthopetala 9.Lachenalia splendida 10. Lachenalia viridiflora bulblets 11. Muscari pallens -- small plant that is late to appear, but charming with pale blue to white flowers, originally from Jane 12. Oxalis glabra -- tiny bulbs so easy to find their way into other pots, still bright and colorful when in bloom 12. Oxalis purpurea 'Garnet' -- the one with purple leaves and bright pink flowers 13. Oxalis semiloba -- still hasn't bloomed for me, but the bulbs are getting very big so maybe this year 14. Romulea bulbocodium bulbcodium (purchased from Jane years ago as Romulea clusiana) -- very reliable bloomer every year 15. Tritonia cormlets, mixed colors, probably hybrids of T. crocata, grown originally from Kirstenbosch seed 16. Tulipa turkestanica SEED: (some in limited quantities): 16. Bellevalia romana-- first got seed of this from an Australian friend who said it was a good doer. He is right and I like it when it is first in bloom, although the white flowers do fade to brown 17. Cyclamen pseudibericum 18. Erythronium californicum 19. Erythronium helenae 20. Hesperantha latifolia -- this Namaqualand species has also been easy in coastal Northern California which seems strange, bright pink flowers in winter 21. Hesperantha pauciflora (pink) 22. Lachenalia aloides aurea -- one of my favorites with golden flowers 23. Lachenalia maughanii, syn. Polyxena maughanii 24. Pelargonium barklyi -- attractive leaves, this is one of the geophytic Pelargoniums that I can get to bloom in spite of it being from Namaqualand. In the past it has been recommended to prick the seed with a needle to hasten germination 25. Romulea grandiscapa 26. Sparaxis grandiflora ssp. violacea 27. Tulipa clusiana chrysantha From Roy Herold: 28. Lilium maritimum Seeds and a couple of bulbs. This has turned out to be a very satisfactory pot plant for colder climates, and has definitely become my favorite lily (as in Lilium). I keep it under the bench in the greenhouse for the winter, bring it out when the shoots emerge (late March here), and put outside in mid-April. It blooms for a couple of weeks in May and into June, and goes dormant in mid-July. These seeds are from hand pollinations with a little help from bees and a hummingbird. Use a gritty, sandy soil mix and deep pot. My plants are from a friend, ex Northwest Native Seeds, I think. 29. Adonis vernalis A bit less familiar than Adonis amurensis (or what goes under that name). A. vernalis blooms later, with similar yellow flowers, and more delicate foliage, and does not go dormant until late summer. A quick search turned up no commercial source, but my plant originally came from Ellen Hornig and one of her Czech suppliers. Probably most suitable for cool/cold climates. Plant the woody rhizome with the new bud about an inch or two below the surface of the soil, with the stiff roots going straight down--do not spread out. Only a few. 30. Corydalis turtschaninovii Say that five times fast. Or, if among gardening friends, just say 'church' and they will know what you mean. For me, the best blue corydalis out there, including all of those fancy fibrous rooted types from China, most of which are annuals around here. Mine have started to seed in, or is it seed out, as the ants carry them to interesting spots. I even had a pink one show up this year (not x solida!). Plant immediately, as they don't like to dry out. Bulbs, ex Ruksans, natch. 31. Anemonella thalictroides 'Cameo' Pale, pale pink double, another classic. See general anemonella notes from BX 148. Tubers, only a few. 32. Arum orientale v. sintenisii (aka A. sintenisii?) I give up. Perhaps someone else can get this one to bloom, and share the secret. A few decent size tubers and lots of little offsets. See my notes from BX148. From Paul Cumbleton: 33. Massonia pustulata - a form with very few pustules 34. Massonia pustulata - purple leaf. This is the best form I have seen, where the emerging leaves are dark purple. Green tones develop as the leaves mature. 35. Massonia depressa 36. Massonia pygmaea ssp. Kamiesbergensis 37. Daubenya marginata 38. Polyxena pygmaea - seed from plants grown from seed from the Karas region. 39. Gladiolus uysiae - This lovely dwarf gladiolus has a very strong & delicious perfume! From Alessandro Marinello: 40. Seed of Ixiolirion tartaricum From Tsuh Yang Chen: 41. Scaly rhizomes of Seemania purpurascens (formerly Gloxinia) Thank you, Mary Sue, Roy, Paul, Alessandro, and Tsuh Yang !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From hornig@earthlink.net Wed Aug 20 08:18:38 2008 Message-Id: From: "Ellen Hornig" Subject: Was: Scilla peruviana, now Hardy Eucomis Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:27:15 -0400 Like Jim, I find E. bicolor qiute hardy here - it has even reseeded. I've had a lot of fun selecting the most heavily pigmented seedlings and working with them - they're glorious things, with spotted leaves and heavily marked stems. They even have spots on their "topknots" and seedpods (which are large, fleshy affairs), so that although they emerge very late they're interesting for a long time thereafter. My best grower/bloomer is the E. comosa I imported years ago from Cape Bulb and Seed as 'Peace Candles'. I didn't expect it to be hardy here, but it's *super*-hardy: it grows anywhere, multiplies well, and blooms reliably, with long, long inflorescences of white flowers w/purple stamens. It also tolerates salt - I have a lovely patch by the road that gets salted annually by the snow-plow/salter/sanders. Its only problem is a tendency to flop unless grown lean. E. montana hangs on here. E. vandermerwei has made it through 2 winters but is definitely going downhill. My assorted purple-leaved seedlings (pallidiflora hybrids? not clear what they are - not comosa), which generally resemble 'Oakhurst', are doing pretty well - some are hardier than others, but they're sorting themselves out over time. I recently got some small plants of a stunning cross between E. 'Sparkling Burgundy' and E. pallidiflora ssp pole-evansii - reddish leaves and a massive club-shaped inflorescence - can't wait to get those up to size. The mother plant is just spectacular. Kelly, are you really overwintering pole-evansii outside? I'm going to set some of those out this year and see how it goes. Ellen Ellen Hornig Seneca Hill Perennials 3712 County Route 57 Oswego NY 13126 USA www.senecahillperennials.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Irvin" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 6:31 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Was: Scilla peruviana, now Hardy Eucomis From kellso@irvincentral.com Wed Aug 20 09:13:35 2008 Message-Id: <48AC1866.4040205@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Was: Scilla peruviana, now Hardy Eucomis Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:13:10 -0500 Ellen: I had E. pole-evansii in the ground for two winters at the old location and two winters at the new location, both solid zone 6 locations. That said, I don't believe we have gone below 6-7°F in those winters, so they have not been tested through our worst case scenario. I use at least 2" of coarse wood mulch. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ Ellen Hornig wrote: > Kelly, are you really overwintering pole-evansii outside? I'm going to set > some of those out this year and see how it goes. > > Ellen From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Aug 20 10:48:41 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: What is a succulent - was Schizobasis intricata Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:46:51 -0500 >Aren't most bulbs/corms/tubers water (as well a other things) >storage organs, and so technically succulent? Dear Tim, Off hand I'd think so without getting into technical discriminations especially since we/PBS tend to include a wide range of plants with storage organs - rhizome, thickened roots, tubers etc....and we often PUSH the limits by including all of a genus when only a few qualify. The thing with caudex forming plants is that many/ some? only show this enlarged storage stem (usually) if they are planted abnormally high and above their 'natural' soil level. I suppose that might include a true bulb growing with the majority exposed (Boweia for a recent example). So some bulbs are routinely included in succulent shows and some plants with water storage organs are planted to expose this feature in succulent shows, but there are surely exceptions and lots of limits. For example Leeks versus onions. Both in the same genus, the former neither succulent nor bulbous, the latter both (some might disagree). Others can add 2 cents worth. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed Aug 20 11:59:23 2008 Message-Id: <000601c902de$19dd7970$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: What is a succulent - was Schizobasis intricata Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:02:04 -0400 Thanks to Jim Waddick for bringing up the name Schizobasis; until that post prompted me to do a Google images search, I knew next to nothing about it. But I have known the name for a long time, at least in the sense that I knew that such a name must exist. How? Because Bowiea volubilis was sometimes called Schizobasopsis volubilis in the past. I encountered that name somewhere decades ago and have never forgotten it. Note the spelling of Bowiea. Now I’ll take up Jim Waddick’s invitation to add my two cents worth on some aspects of the succulent/bulb discussion. I would assert that leeks are both succulent (certainly in the culinary sense if not in the gardener’s sense) and bulbous. Remember, the leeks we buy in the grocery store are immature plants, often plants only some months old. After leeks bloom, the big, succulent annual stem dies down to a small bulb, a real bulb. I’ve never heard of anyone growing leeks for culinary purposes from these bulbs – my guess is that the resulting plants would be too small. Tim asked the question “Aren't most bulbs/corms/tubers water (as well a other things) storage organs, and so technically succulent?” True bulbs do have a succulent quality: if you cut into them, you’ll encounter damp tissue. Corms such as crocus corms on the other hand seem dry as a bone, although the bulk of the storage tissue will sometimes seem vaguely moist – just this side of dead moist – if examined closely. They are more like acorns and chestnuts in this respect. I think the term succulent (in its broadest senses, not confining ourselves to the narrower gardener’s sense) implies readily apparent moisture. For instance, good steaks and oysters can properly be described as succulent, as can most fruit. Surely the use of the term in a horticultural sense began as a natural extension of these culinary meanings, and in plain English simply means juicy (although not necessarily sapid in the gardener’s sense). Now on to this business about bulbs and corms. It seems to me that a lot of gardeners give up on really understanding these terms and instead decide to tolerate a messy level of imprecision in their application. I was a long time in making my peace with these terms, but now I’m happy with them and they make sense to me. The epiphany came when I finally understood the most basic difference between bulbs and corms: to tie it into this discussion, let’s say that bulbs are succulent and corms by and large are not succulent to the same degree. The reason bulbs are succulent is that the major moisture storage organs in true bulbs are modified leaves. In corms, on the other hand, the major moisture storage organs are stem tissues. Once I understood this, I realized that the gardener’s preoccupation with the distinction between bulbs and corms missed the really important part: instead of thinking of these structures as different, it makes much better sense if you try to identify the ways in which they are similar. And the most important way (for purposes of this discussion) in which they are similar is that both bulbs and corms have a stem tissue component. In corms the stem tissue component is the major part of the corm. But where is the stem tissue component in bulbs? The stem tissue component in bulbs is the so-called basal plate. This basal plate is the true perennial stem of the bulb. Along this true perennial stem occur the buds surrounded by succulent modified leaves which we call bulbs. In other words, the question which most of us ask, “what’s the difference between a bulb and a corm”, is the wrong question. All bulbs contain a corm; all bulbs are built around a corm, using corm in the broad sense of stem tissue. Try understanding things from that point of view, and a lot of seemingly disparate things will start to make sense. And if you really want to see what succulent means, take a look as this: http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ The succulence begins after the first picture. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Aug 20 12:06:35 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Lilium formosanum Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:07:43 -0500 Dear Friends, Maybe a decade ago I collected seed from towering stems of Lilium formosanum with permission of J.C.Raulston from a long perennial display at the (now named) J. C. Raulston Arboretum in Raleigh NC. With a name of "formosanum' I assumed they'd be tender and the literature then wasn't much help. I grew and nurtured the seed and had 6 foot stems the second year with nodding white trumpets at eye level. The plant proved to be hardy and vigorous. It is still not widely grown and deserves to be. Now many years later is has self sown gently around the garden and is just finishing bloom. The intensely fragrant flowers come late in the lily season and have no competition for their show. If seeds are started early you can have bloom the first fall, but plants will be taller and better the 2nd year and on. It has come through winters below 0 F and manages essentially without my help. I'll send some seed to the SeedEx when they are ripe, but this note is to provide a bit of advance PR for an easy and essential lily even for northern gardens. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Wed Aug 20 12:15:37 2008 Message-Id: <001701c902df$f8a62390$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: What is a succulent - was Schizobasis intricata Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:15:31 +0100 Jim Waddick wrote: For example Leeks versus onions. Both in the same genus, the > former neither succulent nor bulbous, the latter both (some might > disagree). Well, I'd say it would depend on how long you'd left them in the vegetable rack... Whether or not succulent or bulbous both leeks and onions are definitely esculent. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 From hornig@earthlink.net Wed Aug 20 12:15:28 2008 Message-Id: <6B14A072C2AD45A98F318CF73DC32490@ellenPC> From: "Ellen Hornig" Subject: Lilium formosanum Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:27:29 -0400 Amen to Jim's recommendation of L. formosanum! I may even have gotten my original seeds from him, and I still grow these wonderful lilies (zone 5, lots of snow cover). Can't say enough good about them. Ellen Ellen Hornig Seneca Hill Perennials 3712 County Route 57 Oswego NY 13126 USA www.senecahillperennials.com From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed Aug 20 12:39:27 2008 Message-Id: <000b01c902e3$b3f66170$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Lilium formosanum Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:42:14 -0400 Although I share Jim Waddick’s enthusiasm for Lilium formosanum, I would have presented some of that information a bit differently. First of all, Lilium formosanum is hardly anything new. It’s been widely grown and appreciated since the late nineteenth century, when it made the rounds as Lilium philippense formosanum. Never trust seeds offered as L. philippinense if you want the true L. philippinense – there’s a good chance you’ll get L. formosanum. Lilium formosanum has been in cultivation so long that it is widely naturalized in some places far from its original home – such as southern Africa and Australia. As Jim says, it’s a very beautiful lily and, in some respects, very easily grown. With all that going for it, why isn’t it in every garden? This lily has one significant defect: it’s very virus prone. The best plantings are almost always in gardens where there are no other lilies which might serve as a source of virus infection. Another anomaly: although as Jim mentions it’s easy and quick from seed (and yes, as he says, late winter sown seed will sometimes bloom the fall of the same year), bulbs in commerce are hardly cheap as lilies go. And like other lilies quick and easy from seed, individual plants often prove to be short lived. Something else to be aware of: several horticultural strains have been available over the years. These seem to vary in time of bloom (always erratic in this species until –or if – it settles down for you) and height. There is a name, var. pricei, which should yield plants which stay low (under two feet). Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From othonna@gmail.com Wed Aug 20 13:19:09 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260808201019w453ca63amd0378a0ba1629f4c@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: What is a succulent - was Schizobasis intricata Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:19:06 -0700 Dear Jim, You write "In other words, the question which most of us ask, "what's the difference between a bulb and a corm", is the wrong question. All bulbs contain a corm; all bulbs are built around a corm, using corm in the broad sense of stem tissue." Scouring various glossaries and botanical dictionaries it is remarkable to find that there is little clarity or consensus on the definition of "corm". If "corm" is only defined as being stem tissue then there is no boundary between tuber and corm or thickened stem, etc. The key aspect of a corm, in my view, is that it is renewed annually and therefore is modular. Examples are many irids such as Gladiolus, Crocus, etc., and certain "tuberous" aroids like Amorphophallus. In fact, in the last genus one can find a sort of continuum from 'primitive' rhizomatous species to strictly modular cormous species that regenerate a perennating organ each season. There are other taxa that indicate a transition, as in Tecophilaeaceae: Conanthera (annually renewing corms) and Cyanastrum (corms that are perennial). Even some geophytic begonias (e.g. B. biserrata) have what can be called corms. Dylan Hannon On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 7:46 AM, James Waddick wrote: > >Aren't most bulbs/corms/tubers water (as well a other things) > >storage organs, and so technically succulent? > > Dear Tim, > Off hand I'd think so without getting into technical > discriminations especially since we/PBS tend to include a wide range > of plants with storage organs - rhizome, thickened roots, tubers > etc....and we often PUSH the limits by including all of a genus when > only a few qualify. > > The thing with caudex forming plants is that many/ some? only > show this enlarged storage stem (usually) if they are planted > abnormally high and above their 'natural' soil level. I suppose that > might include a true bulb growing with the majority exposed (Boweia > for a recent example). > > So some bulbs are routinely included in succulent shows and > some plants with water storage organs are planted to expose this > feature in succulent shows, but there are surely exceptions and lots > of limits. > > For example Leeks versus onions. Both in the same genus, the > former neither succulent nor bulbous, the latter both (some might > disagree). > > Others can add 2 cents worth. Best Jim > W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From bonaventure@optonline.net Wed Aug 20 13:52:23 2008 Message-Id: From: bonaventure@optonline.net Subject: Impatiens tinctoria Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:52:21 +0000 (GMT) Whew, what a great deal of interest this evoked and expertise (not like my Eulophia query)! Thanks to all. Took me a while just to catch up on my reading. I will try I.t. again from Annies Annuals soon (unless someone has a spare tuber they can send me?). Meanwhile my I. namchab**** from the same source blooms a beautiful crystalline blue in the shade outdoors despite the heat. The little lanterns have also been taking some sun lately despite the heat here in coastal New Jersey. I. arguta and the alba and wine-red forms of glandulifera from Annie's have melted for me but omiensis from Plant Delights is springing back up from the roots. These are all new this year. I also went to Atlock Farms here in NJ and purchased a mature glandulifera, albeit just a regular pink colored form, to replace the plantlets from Annie's lost to me. Balsam impatiens have long reseeded in my yard annually. Thank G*d they've lost their hideous double flowers and the intricate orchid-like Impatiens flower structure is more apparent. Impatiens capensis (Jewel-weed, touch-me-not) is quite abundant locally in moist woodland and waste places with orange spotted butter yellow lanterns on plants that mature at 3 - 6 feet (just under 2 meters). have collected in the cooler north NJ highlands a more petite and gracile variety of capensis which seldom grows over 1 meter but has brilliant concolor (solid) mandarin-orange flowers. New Guinea Impatiens are banned from my garden. Now for the good part. Glandulifera, namchabwhatever, capensis, and balsam, have all traded pollen due to my intercessions. This is recent so I have yet to see seed pods developing. I will keep you posted. Bonaventure From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed Aug 20 14:11:55 2008 Message-Id: <001001c902f0$9e915120$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: What is a succulent - was Schizobasis intricata Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:14:41 -0400 Dylan, I'm sure you've already considered everything I'm about to say here, but bear with me for the sake of those who might not have. Of course, we're trying to make up the definitions a posteriori: the events which caused things to be as they are are long in the past. Good examples, Dylan. In particular, thanks for introducing the concept of modularity into the discussion. It’s sine non qua for bulbs and corms. You also wrote " Scouring various glossaries and botanical dictionaries it is remarkable to find that there is little clarity or consensus on the definition of "corm". If "corm" is only defined as being stem tissue then there is no boundary between tuber and corm or thickened stem, etc." How true: I can still remember when, after years of gardening, I heard someone for the first time call the tuber of an aroid a corm. At the time, that really irritated me (i.e. it didn't agree with my bad ingrained habits). But for me, that usage was the beginning of understanding what a bulb is. It was the beginning of my realizing that the nature of stem tissue was the key to relating and understanding these concepts. Aren't there two main reasons why it's so hard to pin down these concepts? For one, no matter which morphological features one studies in nature, there are almost always intermediate forms which don't fit our neat definitions. And if the intermediate forms don't presently exist, we invent them for discussion's sake. For another, these various structures have evolved independently in a bewilderingly wide range of plants. When you wrote about "no boundaries" you might very well have been alluding to the sort of evolutionary paths by which these structures developed. It was a big step in my understanding of things when it finally dawned on me that there are non-monocots which have "bulbs". Some of those non-monocots have true bulbs (some Oxalis for example); some of those non-monocots have the things gardeners call bulbs for convenience (for instance Cyclamen). One example I like to use is the condition seen in the gesneriaceous genus Achimenes. Gesneriads are dicots, not closely related to the majority of the plants we think of as bulbous. Just what is the structure from which the annual stems of the Achimenes grow? Most references hedge on this: "scaly rhizomes" is one description I've often seen. Have you ever seen the bulb of Lilium superbum? Superficially, it looks pretty much like the structures produced by Achimenes. Are they (in either case) bulbs? Are they something else? The lily people sometimes call such structures "rhizomatous bulbs". I don't like that term: after all, the bulbs are not rhizomatous, the case is that these lilies have rhizomes which bear bulbs. I call them bulbiferous rhizomes. One of the advantages of science is that if we're determined to have answers, in many cases all we have to do is quantify things and then pick (arbitrarily) limits for each concept. This opens the door to great precision of usage, but it also tends to spoil the poetry. In the case of the Achimenes/Lilium superbum structures, we can begin by saying "if they are bulbs, then the majority of the storage tissue must be in the form of modified leaves". Quantification of the amount of storage tissue in the form of modified leaves on the one hand versus the amount in some other form (stem tissues) will provide an answer. We can then say "if more than 50% of the storage tissue is in the form of modified leaves, then we have a bulb." I'll bet that most people find such finely reasoned distinctions vaguely repellent; but they do provide a logical way of both asking and answering the question. On this forum of all forums, there ought to be a lot of opinions about all of this: I can't wait to hear more. Thanks, Dylan. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From idavide@sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 20 15:52:03 2008 Message-Id: <236385.81818.qm@web81004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: What is a succulent Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Even though the name of the group is ... Bulb Society, I have always thought of it as really ... Geophyte Society; others may not agree.  I guess, too, that not every member would agree to what a geophyte is.  I take Geophyte sensu latu to mean any plant with a typically (but not necessarily) underground, specialized storage organ composed of stemlike or leaflike material, upon which it relies when it resumes active growth after its dormancy or for the production of its inflorescence when it's not green.  Not all bulbous or rhizomatous plants qualify as Geophytes s.s. but I think they'd be fair game for our society.  As I say -- others may not agree. From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Wed Aug 20 16:17:04 2008 Message-Id: <19509789.1219263424117.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: Lilium formosanum Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:17:03 -0500 (GMT-05:00) > and Lilium formosanum var. pricei Stoker. The latter is a high altitude ecotype which never the less >breeds true from seed and faithfully follows the temperate regional seasons. I have one small clump of this. In both locations where it has been grown, Connecticut Zone 5 and here in North Carolina Zone 8ish, half bloom in June and half in late August or early September. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 7b-8 From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed Aug 20 17:42:05 2008 Message-Id: <001801c9030d$f84f6220$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: New Gladiolus and Impatiens images on the wiki Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:44:47 -0400 John Grimshaw has contributed three new images to the PBS wiki. Two are of the Mt. Kenya form of Gladiolus watsonioides. Take a look here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MiscellaneousGladiolus The third is of Impatiens tinctoria subsp. elegantissima; for this, take a look here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Impatiens Thank you, John. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Wed Aug 20 17:56:44 2008 Message-Id: <004a01c9030f$a090b280$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Lilium formosanum Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 22:56:39 +0100 My sole contribution to the Flora of Tropical East Africa has been to write the account of the Liliaceae - this sounds quite grand, but in fact the only representative is the alien Lilium formosanum! Nevertheless this warrants a 'fascicle' (individual portion of the work) of its own, and is available from RBG Kew for the sum of £12.90 (one folded sheet of A4 paper inside covers!). Please note that the author does not receive royalties. Anyway, in researching this species I came to the conclusion that var. pricei is probably not tenable, as there seems to be a continuum of stature in the wild, and that the minuscule things in cultivation under that name are probably the result of selections from selections brought back by William Price from 'Formosa' (Taiwan) in 1912. These would probably be best treated as L. formosanum Pricei Group in horticulture. Incidentally, William Price lived about a mile up the valley here and is remembered by some older residents: he accompanied H.J. Elwes of Colesbourne on his journey to Taiwan. He also collected a clone of Pleione formosana long-known as P. pricei, but now called P. formosana 'Oriental Grace'. The other thing that is very striking is that in wild/naturalised situations it is almost always single-flowered, whereas in cultivation it can be multi-flowered. I have not seen the JC Raulston stock (mentioned by Jim Waddick in starting this thread) in flower, but have seen its towering capsules in winter and thought it was magnificent even then. L. formosanum is in general not a great success in the UK, perhaps because of virus, but also I think it needs a hotter summer than we can provide (even in a good year). John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 From jegrace@rose.net Wed Aug 20 18:03:50 2008 Message-Id: <20080820220350.1A7FD4C01E@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "jegrace" Subject: New Gladiolus and Impatiens images on the wiki Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 18:03:48 -0400 Absolutely gorgeous! Erin Grace, Thomasville, Georgia USA From tony@plantdelights.com Wed Aug 20 18:36:34 2008 Message-Id: <1241.220.132.190.223.1219271794.squirrel@webmail12.pair.com> From: "Tony Avent" Subject: Lilium formosanum Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 18:36:34 -0400 (EDT) John: Funny that you should mention Lilium formosanum as I am currently botanizing in Taiwan and one of my goals was to observe this species in situ. At elevations of 3000', it reaches 5-6' tall and indeed as you climb, the stature drops to plants that flower at only 1' tall when you reach the alpine regions above 9500' elevation. It will be very interesting to see if these "dwarf" forms have changed genetically when they are grown at lower elevations. As you also indicate, it typically has only one flower per plant, but where they have been transplanted into cultivation, some stalks have as many as 8-12 flowers. So far, all plants have purple striping on the flower backs. These alpine forms should love the weather in the UK. > My sole contribution to the Flora of Tropical East Africa has been to > write > the account of the Liliaceae - this sounds quite grand, but in fact the > only > representative is the alien Lilium formosanum! Nevertheless this warrants > a > 'fascicle' (individual portion of the work) of its own, and is available > from RBG Kew for the sum of £12.90 (one folded sheet of A4 paper inside > covers!). Please note that the author does not receive royalties. > > Anyway, in researching this species I came to the conclusion that var. > pricei is probably not tenable, as there seems to be a continuum of > stature > in the wild, and that the minuscule things in cultivation under that name > are probably the result of selections from selections brought back by > William Price from 'Formosa' (Taiwan) in 1912. These would probably be > best > treated as L. formosanum Pricei Group in horticulture. Incidentally, > William > Price lived about a mile up the valley here and is remembered by some > older > residents: he accompanied H.J. Elwes of Colesbourne on his journey to > Taiwan. He also collected a clone of Pleione formosana long-known as P. > pricei, but now called P. formosana 'Oriental Grace'. > > The other thing that is very striking is that in wild/naturalised > situations > it is almost always single-flowered, whereas in cultivation it can be > multi-flowered. I have not seen the JC Raulston stock (mentioned by Jim > Waddick in starting this thread) in flower, but have seen its towering > capsules in winter and thought it was magnificent even then. L. formosanum > is in general not a great success in the UK, perhaps because of virus, but > also I think it needs a hotter summer than we can provide (even in a good > year). > > John Grimshaw > > > Dr John M. Grimshaw > Sycamore Cottage > Colesbourne > Nr Cheltenham > Gloucestershire GL53 9NP > > Tel. 01242 870567 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > Tony Avent USDA Zone 7b, (0-10F winter, 90-100F Summer) Plant Delights Nursery 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603, USA ph 919.772.4794 fx 919.772.4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I've killed it myself...at least three times." - Avent From JmsJon664@aol.com Wed Aug 20 19:20:11 2008 Message-Id: <8CAD1326252285C-E94-153D@WEBMAIL-MC21.sysops.aol.com> From: jmsjon664@aol.com Subject: Lilium formosanum Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:19:52 -0400 I've been growing Lilium formosanum for 15 years or so, my initial plant being v. pricei.  That was suitably dwarf but succeeding generations have included full-size ones.  Many have gone by the wayside but in some spots it has persisted for 7 years. Jim Jones Lexington, MA From kjblack@pacbell.net Wed Aug 20 23:58:21 2008 Message-Id: <777865.10533.qm@web81102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: Brunsvigia josephinae beginning to bloom Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 20:58:19 -0700 (PDT) 3 of my Brunsvigia josephinae bulbs are beginning to send up scapes.  This is the first time for 2 of them, and the fourth year of bloom for the 3rd.  All are entering their 14th year from seed, with approximately 8 years in the ground.  Here's a link to a snapshot on Flickr:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2782515707/   I'm so excited ... I feel like a new grandpa!   Ken San Diego USDA Zone 10 From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Thu Aug 21 02:00:15 2008 Message-Id: <003101c90353$29226a60$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Impatiens group Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 07:00:04 +0100 Bonaventure (and others) may be interested to know that there is an Impatiens discussion group: Impatiens@yahoogroups.com and that Derick Pitman maintains a website http://mrimpatiens.com/ devoted to the diversity of this fascinating genus. Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 From pandi_bear@bigpond.com Thu Aug 21 03:40:13 2008 Message-Id: <012101c90361$1c21d4a0$0100000a@Tiggy> From: "Carolyn Fra" Subject: Brunsvigia josephinae beginning to bloom Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:39:57 +1000 Congratulations Ken, :o) Mine have a long way to go to get to this stage, LOL! Carolyn (Tasmania, Australia) -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Ken Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2008 1:58 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Brunsvigia josephinae beginning to bloom 3 of my Brunsvigia josephinae bulbs are beginning to send up scapes.  This is the first time for 2 of them, and the fourth year of bloom for the 3rd.  All are entering their 14th year from seed, with approximately 8 years in the ground.  Here's a link to a snapshot on Flickr:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2782515707/   I'm so excited ... I feel like a new grandpa!   Ken San Diego USDA Zone 10 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From m_resend@yahoo.com.br Thu Aug 21 07:09:52 2008 Message-Id: <806602.47367.qm@web38806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Marcondes de Resende Subject: Lilium callosum Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 04:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Hi! I am trying to find Lilium callosum and Lilium callosum var. flaviflorum seeds. Could you help me, please? Thanks! Marcondes Brazil Novos endereços, o Yahoo! que você conhece. Crie um email novo com a sua cara @ymail.com ou @rocketmail.com. http://br.new.mail.yahoo.com/addresses From dells@voicenet.com Thu Aug 21 08:02:57 2008 Message-Id: <20080821120256.8A5394C01D@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 181 CLOSED Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 08:02:46 -0400 Whew !! Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From carlobal@netzero.com Thu Aug 21 08:10:51 2008 Message-Id: <20080821.080629.20312.1@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.com" Subject: Brunsvigia josephinae beginning to bloom Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:06:29 GMT Congratulations Ken! My thrills are that the seed I obtained was fertile, germinated, and plants are coming along (nearly a year old). I know I've got a loooooong way to go... I'm looking forward to seeing your plants do their thing. Thanks for the photos. Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com and its BGBlog From brent.hine@ubc.ca Thu Aug 21 10:31:49 2008 Message-Id: <48AD7CFE.3070801@ubc.ca> From: brent hine Subject: Brunsvigia josephinae beginning to bloom Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 07:34:38 -0700 I was also happy to read you've finally flowered these. I grow several B. radulosa in a bulb frame. They're increasing their numbers of leaves yearly, but as with others' experiences, there's still miles to go before I weep - from joy, to see them in flower! Brent Hine Vancouver BC Zone 7a From perdy@mts.net Thu Aug 21 11:50:13 2008 Message-Id: <06E72E1EA3384047813D375E150086AD@DAndersonPC> From: "D Anderson" Subject: Brunsvigia josephinae beginning to bloom Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:50:05 -0500 Thanks for the link, Ken. What a good grandpa you are!! :) Donna in Winnipeg, Manitoba ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 10:58 PM Subject: [pbs] Brunsvigia josephinae beginning to bloom 3 of my Brunsvigia josephinae bulbs are beginning to send up scapes. This is the first time for 2 of them, and the fourth year of bloom for the 3rd. All are entering their 14th year from seed, with approximately 8 years in the ground. Here's a link to a snapshot on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2782515707/ I'm so excited ... I feel like a new grandpa! Ken San Diego USDA Zone 10 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Aug 21 12:05:01 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Lilium formosanum Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:05:49 -0500 > I have not seen the JC Raulston stock (mentioned by Jim >Waddick in starting this thread) in flower, but have seen its towering >capsules in winter and thought it was magnificent even then. Dear John, Me too. Since I collected seed they were past flowering, but my imagination inspired me and they have lived up to their potential. Iain, I wasn't at all familiar with the ssp microphyllum. Seems like the sort of plant that should be in cultivation... Keep us posted of your luck. Maybe Tony can look out for it while he's in Taiwan. I have to admit an aversion to L. formosanum pricei. When I have seen this plant its inordinately short stature combined with huge trumpet flowers seemed totally out of proportion: a travesty. And as I recall var. pricei has only one or two flowers per stem giving an all too short a bloom. I suppose one 'good side' of living in a hellishly hot climate is that viruses seem less pronounced here. I have never seen the tell-tale streaking of virus on my plants, here. The warm days AND nights (summer nights "cool" to 80 degrees F and sometimes higher !) seem to suppress virus activity. So if the gardener can survive the temps, the lilies thrive. Glad to get so many good words on this underrated and less known lily. Thanks to all for the input. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From Billthebulbbaron@aol.com Thu Aug 21 12:29:34 2008 Message-Id: From: Billthebulbbaron@aol.com Subject: Brunsvigia josephinae beginning to bloom Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:29:14 EDT In a message dated 8/20/08 8:58:46 PM, kjblack@pacbell.net writes: > 3 of my Brunsvigia josephinae bulbs are beginning to send up scapes. > Ken, Back when I was in Carmel Valley, they did really well, most of them blooming every year. Where I am now on the coast they grow fine, but don't bloom. The fact that they are near some stuff that gets watered in the summer probably doesnt help. I feel like selling them off. Even in Carmel Valley the one bulb that was near some crinums I watered, never bloomed until one year I let them go dry! Best wishes, Bill the Bulb Baron www.BilltheBulbBaron.com William R.P. Welch Please make all checks payable to William R.P. Welch, and use my NEW address: 1031-B Cayuga Street, Santa Cruz, CA 95062, USA New phone numbers as well: Phone (831) 236-8397 fax ONLY (831) 426-4915--HOWEVER I much prefer orders etc placed WITHIN an email (NOT as an attachment) COMPARED to fax as I don't know yet how to transfer fax text over on to my computer where I need it--thanks! ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From eagle85@flash.net Thu Aug 21 14:05:52 2008 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: washed river sand Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:02:37 -0700 What is the response to a mix 50/50 of washed building sand and screened granite for germinating Hipp seeds? Doug Westfall From bonaventure@optonline.net Thu Aug 21 14:10:36 2008 Message-Id: From: bonaventure@optonline.net Subject: What is a succulent Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 18:10:34 +0000 (GMT) What about the "tubers" of Bletilla? Some genera of terrestrial orchids (eg. Cyrtopodium, Eulophia) have species with those underground structures, yet other species with them partially buried and others with them totally exposed where they are termed "pseudobulbs" yet they are completely made up of stem tissue?? Isn't "tuber" a swollen root structure, as in Dahlia and some species of Impatiens, as opposed to "corm" made up of stem tissue? Bonaventure From mikemace@att.net Thu Aug 21 14:28:05 2008 Message-Id: <002a01c903bb$a34ab640$e9e022c0$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Tecophilaea from seeds Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:27:57 -0700 Roger wrote: >> I have just harvested 3 capsules (32 seeds in toto) of Tecophilaea cyanocrocus leichtlinii and now I'm wondering just what the optimum sowing protocol might be. I planted them in fall and grew them in a mix of 50% sand and 50% peat moss, with a handful of complete bulb fertilizer added per eight-inch pot. Full sun. I watered them every week in the winter and kept them dry in the summer. They didn't need any special treatment in my part of California. Where you are, I suspect you'll want to keep the rain off them in summer. They weren't super-fast to reach blooming size, but I don't remember them being horribly slow either. Certainly not as bad as most of my Amaryllids. My biggest problem was slugs and snails, which loved them. Can't remember if they were subject to damping off when tiny, but I'd be careful just in case since you're in a pretty humid area compared to me. One caveat: The fact that you're harvesting seed from your bulbs in August makes me wonder if their growth pattern in BC might be substantially different from California. They were dormant a lot earlier here. Hope that helps. Mike San Jose, CA (zone 9, min temp 20F) From idavide@sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 21 14:42:38 2008 Message-Id: <266181.6176.qm@web81003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: What is a succulent Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:42:37 -0700 (PDT) I was taught, perhaps wrongly, that tubers are composed of stem-like, not root-like tissue.  The example used in high school was not Dahlia or Begonia, where the stem is attached to the tuber, but white potato, where the tuber is clearly separate from the stem.  Orchids, gosh, I'm not sure -- one could certainly make a case for considering (some of) them succulents or geophytes. ----- Original Message ---- From: "bonaventure@optonline.net" To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 11:10:34 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] What is a succulent What about the "tubers" of Bletilla? Some genera of terrestrial orchids (eg. Cyrtopodium, Eulophia) have species with those underground structures, yet other species with them partially buried and others with them totally exposed where they are termed "pseudobulbs" yet they are completely made up of stem tissue?? Isn't "tuber" a swollen root structure, as in Dahlia and some species of Impatiens, as opposed to "corm" made up of stem tissue? Bonaventure _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From butterflyamaryllis@yahoo.com Thu Aug 21 15:25:00 2008 Message-Id: <58394.71821.qm@web33901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: What is a succulent Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:24:59 -0700 (PDT) On a different tangent, what do we say about trees or herbs that can tolerate drought.  For example I know that some cotton plants that can go months without water (even in pots) and then suddenly sprout new leaves with water.  A species on an Island in the Gulf of Mexico was observed to go without water for more than a year and then promptly flower and seed with rain.   James Frelichowski --- On Thu, 8/21/08, David Ehrlich wrote: From: David Ehrlich Subject: Re: [pbs] What is a succulent To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 11:42 AM I was taught, perhaps wrongly, that tubers are composed of stem-like, not root-like tissue.  The example used in high school was not Dahlia or Begonia, where the stem is attached to the tuber, but white potato, where the tuber is clearly separate from the stem.  Orchids, gosh, I'm not sure -- one could certainly make a case for considering (some of) them succulents or geophytes. ----- Original Message ---- From: "bonaventure@optonline.net" To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 11:10:34 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] What is a succulent What about the "tubers" of Bletilla? Some genera of terrestrial orchids (eg. Cyrtopodium, Eulophia) have species with those underground structures, yet other species with them partially buried and others with them totally exposed where they are termed "pseudobulbs" yet they are completely made up of stem tissue?? Isn't "tuber" a swollen root structure, as in Dahlia and some species of Impatiens, as opposed to "corm" made up of stem tissue? Bonaventure _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From dells@voicenet.com Thu Aug 21 16:57:00 2008 Message-Id: <20080821205659.E960B4C032@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Additional information about some of the offerings on BX 181 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:56:49 -0400 Here is some information that Paul Cumbleton sent that I forgot to include in the original BX listing. This info applies to Paul's donations 33-39. There were a couple of points I forgot to say in my last email:; 1. The purple colour on the purple-leafed M. pustulata does not show in the first, and sometimes second year after germination when the seedlings will be green. But it should show the year after. 2. I cannot guarantee they will be true to type - though I hand pollinated them, the bees also had access to the house so there is a chance some of the forms have cross-pollinated Dell, for Paul From info@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org Wed Aug 20 16:03:28 2008 Message-Id: <00d601c903d1$85629b50$0601a8c0@homepc> From: Subject: Lilium formosanum Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 22:04:37 +0100 Perhaps the following information on this taxon would be of interest. There are three recognised botanical varieties currently; the nominate L. formosanum var. formosanum Wallace; Lilium formosanum var. microphyllum T.S. Liu & S.S.Ying; and Lilium formosanum var. pricei Stoker. The latter is a high altitude ecotype which never the less breeds true from seed and faithfully follows the temperate regional seasons. There are a number of plants in circulation which could justify the varietal status, or forma at least of 'alba', these are pure white without any yellow or rose tinting. One group of this colour form is registered to Wall & Wall under the registered name of Lilium formosanum 'Special Group'. I understand these to be erratic as to time of flowering and may well not be of much use in USDA or European equivalent hardiness zones e.g. 6 to 8 perhaps implying they must have been developed by the Walls from coastal provenances. Another similar selection is known as 'Wilson's Pure White'. However, it should be borne in mind that from the coastal region up through the altitudinal range of this species there is clear continuous cline in height of the plants. What isn't clear here in the West is at what altitudinal level this species ceases to adopt an accurate, or normal, seasonal growth rhythm. The variety 'microphyllum' is found restricted to growing at or near coastal level in northern Taiwan. This variety is unfortunately not yet in the lily collection here, indeed it may not as far as I can ascertain be in cultivation at all outside of Taiwan. Of interest might be that I have been told that the Taiwanese do not in fact recognise the variety 'pricei' in their Flora. At the lowest coastal stations this species can be found growing on rocks derived from coral type limestone and can be found in flower most months of the year at such sites. The variety 'pricei' grown in the collection here is growing in almost pure granite derived free draining sand and gravel with a pH of 4.5 and have breezed through - 18C at quite a shallow depth, I think the important point is the free draining aspect to the soil because if it were heavy silt or clay reataining moisture I am not sure how they would cope. There are very many registered cultivars of Lilium formosanum, some fifteen currently as this lily has a high economic value in various countries apart from Taiwan. Regards, Iain Auchgourish Botanic Garden -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 10921 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len From pcamusa@hotmail.com Thu Aug 21 17:35:50 2008 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: Bulbs and corms as food source... Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:35:43 -0400 Mostly for amusement, but I am hoping the manuscript provides a list of the 100 or so edible species they surveyed. Interesting speculation on bulbs and tubers as food sources for early hominids: http://www.physorg.com/news138466447.html Manuscript cited is not yet in print.... Includes a pragmatic if not scientific way to distinguish underground storage organs: bulbs are most tender, so easiest to chew, then corms, tubers and rhizomes. The latter perhaps requiring roasting before they could be easily eaten. Now I understand a bit more about the selection pressures for the bulb collecting gene. -Phil _________________________________________________________________ Be the filmmaker you always wanted to be—learn how to burn a DVD with Windows®. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108588797/direct/01/ From karlachandler@bbg.org Thu Aug 21 17:38:19 2008 Message-Id: <5BF707B7ED37FE4BBD274D3BA180C6110182FF6F@Boston.home.bbg.org> From: "Chandler, Karla" Subject: washed river sand Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:37:58 -0400 Thanks everyone for the "river sand" info. I have many more options than I had realized. All the replies were very helpful. Thank you. Karla ******************************************** Karla Chandler Curator of Helen Mattin Warm Temperate Pavilion Brooklyn Botanic Garden 1000 Washington Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11225 phone: 718-623-7200 x 6400 fax: 718-622-7847 http://www.bbg.org ******************************************** From rherold@yahoo.com Thu Aug 21 17:50:45 2008 Message-Id: <48ADE32A.2070501@yahoo.com> From: Roy Herold Subject: Additional information about some of the offerings on BX 181 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:50:34 -0400 For what it's worth, the Doutt form of M. pustulata that I keep sending to the BX also emerges with a purple leaf, similar to the photo on Paul's blog: (Scroll halfway down). I'm convinced that cool weather during emergence will intensify the purple color. --Roy Dell Sherk wrote: > Here is some information that Paul Cumbleton sent that I forgot to include > in the original BX listing. This info applies to Paul's donations 33-39. > > > > There were a couple of points I forgot to say in my last email:; > > 1. The purple colour on the purple-leafed M. pustulata does not show in the > > first, and sometimes second year after germination when the seedlings will > > be green. But it should show the year after. > > > > 2. I cannot guarantee they will be true to type - though I hand pollinated > > them, the bees also had access to the house so there is a chance some of the > > forms have cross-pollinated > > > > > > Dell, for Paul > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Aug 21 18:54:04 2008 Message-Id: <000301c903e1$38cbe020$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Bulbs and corms as food source... Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 18:57:00 -0400 Phil wrote: "Now I understand a bit more about the selection pressures for the bulb collecting gene." The bulb collecting gene? Who would have known? Thanks, Phil. Now I can retire "the devil made me do it" and substitute "it's a genetic thing". I'm a good candidate for a DNA sample if they want to try to identify the bulb collecting gene sequence more precisely. Jim McKenney From kjblack@pacbell.net Thu Aug 21 19:55:47 2008 Message-Id: <272558.80121.qm@web81104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: x 'Boopharyllis' pollen sterility? Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:55:45 -0700 (PDT) I have a question for the experts .... these crosses between Boophone disticha (seed parent) and Amaryllis belladonna (pollen parent) seem to be sterile as it appears again this year the ovaries/pods which swell are full of nothing but air.   I have had a total of 8 scapes this year and nothing ... yet.    Could the pollen off this hybrid be fertile?    I've been brushing its pollen on hybrid A.belladonnas (with Brunsvigia heritage) and it appears seed is developing.  I also did this last year and a lot of seed developed which seemed a bit larger than normal A.belladonna seed, but germinated well and otherwise look like normal A.belladonna seedlings.    Here are a couple links to shots of this x'Boopharyllis' ...   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2718943764/   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2713270134/   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2742635323/   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2755219211/   Ken San Diego zone 10   From pcamusa@hotmail.com Thu Aug 21 20:41:20 2008 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: Bulb stems Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 20:41:12 -0400 Catching up on PBS emails, I've been following the excellent thread on bulbs vs corms, etc. Among the insights I got was this one from Jim McKenny. "But where is the stem tissue component in bulbs? The stem tissue component in bulbs is the so-called basal plate. This basal plate is the true perennial stem of the bulb. Along this true perennial stem occur the buds surrounded by succulent modified leaves which we call bulbs." I'd been puzzling over my hymenocallis (http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Hymenocallis/Hymenocallis_sp_PA2.jpg)which appear to extend their basal plates to push them higher in the dunes as sand builds up. Some of the extensions are over 3 feet in length and have a couple more feet below that is withered. But if I think of these as stems pushing the buds up towards the surface its at least aesthetically satisfying. Hymenocallis on underground stems. I really should have taken that Botany class back in college. Regards, Phil _________________________________________________________________ Get thousands of games on your PC, your mobile phone, and the web with Windows®. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108588800/direct/01/ From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Thu Aug 21 20:51:43 2008 Message-Id: <48AE0D95.2080609@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Bulbs and corms as food source... Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:51:33 -0700 So should we now use their acronym 'USO' instead of 'geophyte'? [USO = Underground Storage Organs] BTW, I found a link to the article at . It gave a table of all the geophyte species they tested. I've appended the table below, in case you can't access the link, as tab-delimited text for those who want to see it. (And you can cut and paste it into a separate file and open it with Excel to re-produce it in table form if you want.) P. C. Andrews wrote: > Mostly for amusement, but I am hoping the manuscript provides a list of the 100 or so edible species they surveyed. > > Manuscript cited is not yet in print.... > > > "USO form, genus, and species" Family Collection locality Fracture toughness (J m_2) Young’s modulus (MPa) Bulbs Albuca canadensis Hyacinthaceae WF 184 3.3 Albuca cooperi Hyacinthaceae WF 329 0.8 Albuca juncifolia Hyacinthaceae WF 350 5 Albuca maxima Hyacinthaceae K 40 1.4 Albuca setosa Hyacinthaceae WF 219 3.1 Albuca spiralis Hyacinthaceae K 87 1.7 Amaryllis belladonna Amaryllidaceae WF 600 0.3 Boophane disticha Amaryllidaceae Maun 161 3.2 Brunsvigia orientalis Amaryllidaceae WF 2293 2.9 Brunsvigia sp. Amaryllidaceae K 260 1 Crinum foetidum Amaryllidaceae Maun 126 1.1 Crinum sp. Amaryllidaceae HOORC 101 2.8 Dipcadi crispum Hyacinthaceae WF 451 0.8 Gethyllis affra Amaryllidaceae WF 313 2.4 Haemanthus coccineus Amaryllidaceae WF 560 4.7 Haemanthus crispus Amaryllidaceae K 247 2.1 Hessea chaplinii Amaryllidaceae WF 77 0.3 Lachenalia carnosa Hyacinthaceae K 150 2.7 Lachenalia mutabilis Hyacinthaceae WF 126 3.1 Lachenalia unifolia Hyacinthaceae WF 100 1.2 Ledebouria cooperi Hyacinthaceae D 120 3.2 Ornithogalum thyrsoides Hyacinthaceae WF 202 1.9 Oxalis hirta var. tenuicaulis Oxalidaceae WF 324 1.5 Oxalis obliquifolia Oxalidaceae D 183 – Oxalis purpurea Oxalidaceae WF 437 1.3 Oxalis pusilla Oxalidaceae WF 683 1.7 Oxalis versicolor Oxalidaceae WF 606 2.1 Oxalis sp. A Oxalidaceae K 135 1.8 Oxalis sp. B Oxalidaceae K 221 3.6 Scilla dracomontana Hyacinthaceae D 336 3.9 Tulbaghia capensis Alliaceae WF 519 8 Veltheimia glauca Hyacinthaceae WF 420 4.1 Corms Babiana ambigua Iridaceae WF 194 7.2 Babiana scariosa Iridaceae K 362 7.1 Chlorophytum triflorum Anthericaceae WF 180 3.1 Cyperus alatus Cyperaceae MRC 288 8.8 Cyperus cristatus Cyperaceae MRC 117 4.7 Empodium veratrifolium Hypoxidaceae WF 234 2.3 Ferraria uncinata Iridaceae K 325 8.8 Gladiolus carinatus Iridaceae WF 100 6.2 Gladiolus gracilis Iridaceae WF 220 2.4 Hesperantha falcata Iridaceae WF 634 4.6 Ixia maculata Iridaceae WF 291 5.8 Ixia monodelphia Iridaceae WF 426 4.4 Lapeirousia jacquinii Iridaceae WF 86 3.8 Lapeirousia silenoides Iridaceae K 487 5.7 Melasphaerula ramosa Iridaceae WF 261 3.1 Moraea fugax Iridaceae WF 158 1.8 Moraea miniata Iridaceae K 241 3.6 Moraea tricolor Iridaceae WF 299 3.5 Romulea flava Iridaceae WF 232 3.4 Romulea cf. tabularis Iridaceae WF 292 5.7 Sparaxis bulbifera Iridaceae WF 269 12 Spiloxene ovata Hypoxidaceae WF 245 3.9 Wachendorffia paniculata Haemodoraceae WF 100 3.5 Watsonia coccinea Iridaceae WF 328 2.3 Rhizomes Bulbinella triquetra Asphodelaceae WF 3645 2.5 Cynodon dactylon Poaceae MRC 3770 14 Cyperus dives Cyperaceae HOORC 2379 13.7 Ficinia lateralis Cyperaceae WF 7967 13.6 Nymphea lotus Nymphaeaceae HOORC 414 – Phragmites australis Poaceae HOORC 451 6.2 Schoenoplectus corymbosus Cyperaceae HOORC 4743 13.9 Willdenowia incurvata Restionaceae WF 25468 18.7 Zantedeschia aethiopica Araceae WF 193 5.5 Root tubers Acanthosicyos naudinianus Cucurbitaceae H 979 8 Arctopus echinatus Apiaceae WF 2758 2.7 Asparagus asparagoides Liliaceae WF 114 2.8 Asparagus exuvialis Liliaceae Maun 143 2.2 Asparagus rubicundus Liliaceae WF 296 1.5 Cissampelos capensis Menispermaceae WF 3484 9.2 Coccinea aurantiaca Cucurbitaceae Mangola 399 3.5 Conicosia elongata Aizoaceae K 874 4.8 Cucumis africanus Cucurbitaceae H 1397 8.3 Dioscorea sp. Dioscoreaceae Korup 5955 5.3 Eriospermum capense Rusaceae WF 466 5.4 Eriospermum nanum Rusaceae WF 1089 3.8 Eriospermum sp. Rusaceae K 205 2.6 Euphorbia tuberosa Euphorbiaceae WF 2080 3.2 Helichrysum cf. cochleariforme Asteraceae WF 916 2.9 Hypoxis argenta Hypoxidaceae D 825 0.8 Hypoxis hemerocallidea Hypoxidaceae Pretoria 1290 7.8 Monsonia longipes Geroniaceae MRC 1243 5.6 Nymphea lotus Nymphaeaceae HOORC 1139 5.5 Nymphea nouchali Nymphaeaceae HOORC 1064 9.4 Pelargonium seneciodes Geraniaceae WF 902 8.2 Pelargonium triste Geraniaceae WF 742 4.6 Pergularia daemia Asclepiadaceae Maun 2303 5.1 Pteronia divaricata Asteraceae WF 754 7.6 Rumex lativalvis Polygalaceae WF 735 5.9 Vatovaea pseudolablab Fabaceae Mangola 448 – Vigna frutescens Fabaceae Mangola 4859 – Vigna macrorhyncha Fabaceae Mangola 543 4.2 Vigna sp. A Fabaceae Mangola 848 – Unidentified no 1 Apiaceae MRC 1081 5.5 Unidentified no 2 Apiaceae MRC 679 4.2 Unidentified legume no 1 Leguminosae WF 2114 7 Unidentified legume no 2 Leguminosae WF 318 1.4 "Collection locality key: D Drakensberg Mountains, HOORC Henry Oppenheimer Okavango Research Center, H Hotazel, K Kamieskroon (Namaqualand), MRC Mpala Research Centre, WF Wayland’s Farm" From Roth@ukzn.ac.za Fri Aug 22 02:02:28 2008 Message-Id: <48AE7139.2298.0024.0@ukzn.ac.za> From: "Rogan Roth" Subject: Tecophilaea from seed Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:59:42 +0200 Hello Roger, >>>I also understand that seedling tecophilaea is extremely slow to reach maturity. This implies that they need careful handling for some years.<<< On the contrary, I have found Tecophilaea to be extremely easy from seed. My seedlings are planted in a 25:75 mixture of coarse river sand and composted fir bark and are growing in a sunny position with some afternoon shade - I feed and water regularly. After two seasons of growth my seedlings are between two and three inches tall. Good luck! Rogan. Please find our Email Disclaimer here: http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer/ From pcamusa@hotmail.com Fri Aug 22 07:53:59 2008 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: Bulbs and corms as food source... Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:53:49 -0400 I rather enjoyed the acronym also. I kept thinking Unidentified Subterranean Objects- like digging in parts of my garden. Thanks for including the list! It includes quite a few plants I would have considered poisonous or borderline poisonous. They must have considered "medicinal" plants to be fair game. Regards, Phil > Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:51:33 -0700 > From: wpoulsen@pacbell.net > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] Bulbs and corms as food source... > > So should we now use their acronym 'USO' instead of 'geophyte'? [USO = > Underground Storage Organs] _________________________________________________________________ See what people are saying about Windows Live. Check out featured posts. http://www.windowslive.com/connect?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_connect2_082008 From msittner@mcn.org Fri Aug 22 10:14:52 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080822071230.037119f0@mail.mcn.org> From: Ton Wijnen (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Hippeastrum seeds Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:14:33 -0700 Hallo I am searching a few seeds or a little bulb of the Hippeastrum fragrantissimum and Hippeastrum brasillianum. Who can help me?? Thank you very much. Kind regards Ton Wijnen Holland From rherold@yahoo.com Fri Aug 22 10:38:30 2008 Message-Id: <460705.80939.qm@web62403.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: Roy Herold Subject: Tecophilaea from seed Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:38:29 -0700 (PDT) I, too, had some seeds result from my pollen dabbing last spring, on both the regular and leichtlinii types. I was also encouraged to find an offset on one of the corms when repotting last month. Is it normal to see this sort of increase? They seemed to like Rodger's soil recommendation of mostly grit and sand. For cold climates such as mine where the seed pots would be in a cool greenhouse for the winter, should the seeds be planted now or wait until spring? I'm guessing the former, but I don't want them to sulk and rot during the long winter if they don't come up quickly. What would be the typical germination time for 70f days and 50f nights? --Roy NW of Boston Starting to plant all those other seeds... From kellso@irvincentral.com Fri Aug 22 11:09:30 2008 Message-Id: <48AED64A.6050200@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: x 'Boopharyllis' pollen sterility? Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:07:54 -0500 Ken: I'm awestruck! Very interesting and beautiful. Are you saying that all the progeny are sterile, or just the one that looks very similar to A. belladonna in flower structure? I find your last link to be quite different from the other specimen. Seems strange the forms would be so different, and I would more expect the last form than the first. I'm assuming, with such an exposed bulb, this would be a tender hybrid? Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ Ken wrote: > I have a question for the experts .... these crosses between > Boophone disticha (seed parent) and Amaryllis belladonna (pollen parent) seem to be sterile as it appears again this year the ovaries/pods which swell are full of nothing but air. I have had a total of 8 scapes this year and nothing ... yet. > > Could the pollen off this hybrid be fertile? > > I've been brushing its pollen on hybrid A.belladonnas (with Brunsvigia heritage) and it appears seed is developing. I also did this last year and a lot of seed developed which seemed a bit larger than normal A.belladonna seed, but germinated well and otherwise look like normal A.belladonna seedlings. > > Here are a couple links to shots of this x'Boopharyllis' ... > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2718943764/ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2713270134/ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2742635323/ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2755219211/ > > Ken > San Diego > zone 10 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From zigur@hotmail.com Fri Aug 22 13:44:18 2008 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: x 'Boopharyllis' pollen sterility? Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:44:05 -0700 I am not sure as to how one would differentiate between female sterility - i.e. a genetic inability to produce seed, and incompatibility, i.e. not being given the right pollen. I have several plants which do not produce seed but whose pollen I use in hybrids, wo the pollen from your plants could be fine. I saw flowering Brunsvigia radula and namaquana yesterday! T> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:55:45 -0700> From: kjblack@pacbell.net> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: [pbs] x 'Boopharyllis' pollen sterility?> > I have a question for the experts .... these crosses between> Boophone disticha (seed parent) and Amaryllis belladonna (pollen parent) seem to be sterile as it appears again this year the ovaries/pods which swell are full of nothing but air. I have had a total of 8 scapes this year and nothing ... yet. > > Could the pollen off this hybrid be fertile? > > I've been brushing its pollen on hybrid A.belladonnas (with Brunsvigia heritage) and it appears seed is developing. I also did this last year and a lot of seed developed which seemed a bit larger than normal A.belladonna seed, but germinated well and otherwise look like normal A.belladonna seedlings. > > Here are a couple links to shots of this x'Boopharyllis' ...> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2718943764/> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2713270134/> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2742635323/> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2755219211/> > Ken> San Diego> zone 10> > _______________________________________________> pbs mailing list> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kjblack@pacbell.net Fri Aug 22 14:14:51 2008 Message-Id: <949002.63463.qm@web81105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: x 'Boopharyllis' pollen sterility? Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:14:49 -0700 (PDT) Hi Kelly,   Thank you.  So far ... blooms on scapes of all 5 flowering bulbs, all results of the same cross from the same (2000) year ... seem to be (at least) seed sterile.  On the largest, oldest flowering bulb, (now technically 2 bulbs w/4 scapes) most of the ovaries, after attempted pollination, simply turn yellow and dry up.  On 3 of the others ... I seem to get quite a few to remain green and which grow or swell.  However, in each of the last few years, they have yielded no apparent seed ... they have only been full of air.  The word is still out this year, but it appears I will get the same results.    The fifth bulb of the group of siblings, does have markedly different florets than the others.  Narrower and somewhat darker pink petals, but similar (this year) to the others in having 20-30 florets, and all probably 1/2 size of normal individual A.belladonna flowers.  The bulb is more like its siblings, which are more similar to their Boophone parent, as they seem to grow more exposed above the soil surface.  I would assume tenderness, as both parents are somewhat tender, although I think A.belladonna probably displays a tad more cold tolerance than Boophone.  I've only had 1 light frost in my 9.5 years here in San Diego, about 2 miles from the Pacific Ocean.  They all seem to produce some pollen, although not in abundance and I'm not sure of its viability.  There seems to be two kinds on each stamen ... some very small, powder-like ... and a few larger grain-like.  Perhaps the larger 'grains' are simply clumps of the powder-sized particles.   I've been using it on x A.belladonnas which probably have some Brunsvigia heritage.  Some of those ovaries are swelling.  Last year, in the same process, I did get a lot of seed ... but uncertain as to their parentage.   Ken --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Kelly Irvin wrote: ... Are you saying that all the progeny are sterile, or just the one that looks very similar to A. belladonna in flower structure? I find your last link to be quite different from the other specimen. Seems strange the forms would be so different, and I would more expect the last form than the first. I'm assuming, with such an exposed bulb, this would be a tender hybrid? From kjblack@pacbell.net Fri Aug 22 14:47:18 2008 Message-Id: <408386.61641.qm@web81101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: x 'Boopharyllis' pollen sterility? Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Thanks, Tim!  Guess I will just keep playing bumblebee with the x'Boopharyllis pollen!   WOW ... did you get pics?  Where did you see B.radula and B.namaquana?  Are you in S.A. now?    Ken San Diego --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Tim Harvey wrote: ...I saw flowering Brunsvigia radula and namaquana yesterday! From leo@possi.org Fri Aug 22 16:05:59 2008 Message-Id: <1576.209.180.132.162.1219435514.squirrel@possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Schizobasis intricata Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:05:14 -0700 (MST) James Waddick wrote > I confess a mini-obsession - let's call it 'fascination' with > succulent plants. This is completely normal. As Mae West said, "I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it." Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Aug 22 17:27:38 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Bulbs and corms as food source... Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:07:05 -0500 Dear Lee, Thanks for your list of edible USOs. I assume it goes without saying that these are all African species and the list would be many time longer for the rest of world. I see Iain has added Lilium a major food item in Asia. Suppose there's a full list somewhere? Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From totototo@telus.net Sat Aug 23 16:16:22 2008 Message-Id: <19740414223344.D97925243C3DC492@priv-edmwaa07.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Bulbs as a food resource Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 01:20:13 -0700 I once tried the bulbs of Camassia. Whether C. leichtlinii or C. quamash, I don't know. Steamed them. They had the appearance, texture, and taste of library paste. You could survive on them, but it wouldn't be a gourmet's paradise. PS: one reads that the local Salish Indians rogued out xygadenus from the camas fields, and many references imply that zygadenus is only distinguishable from camas by havinga white flower color. That's nonsense written by people with no first-hand experience. The inflorescence of zygadenus is unmistakably different from that of camas, and it's not white anyway: it's a dirty yellow-green. The point of similarity and possibly lethal confusion lies in the resemblance of the dormant bulbs. I collected by dinner when it was in flower, btw. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From info@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org Fri Aug 22 14:53:14 2008 Message-Id: <001f01c90551$9d20c470$0601a8c0@homepc> From: "iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org" Subject: Bulbs as a food resource Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 19:54:03 +0100 In my researches on Lilium it is clear that many societies used, and some still do, both Lilium and Cardiocrinum bulbs as a food resource, for some they are a major source of starch. The Ainu of northern Japan use Cardiocrinum cordite as a starch component for dumplings. Tibetan peasants plant lily bulbs of certain species into the turf of their roofs as a secure resource protected from animal digging in times of famine. Lilies were, and may still be, used in parts of South Eastern Europe as a vegetable. One or two species have been noted as being poisonous and I hope to include information on this in my lily book in due course. Sorry no I don't have any recipes ! Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 6:21 PM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 67, Issue 30 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Tecophilaea from seed (Rogan Roth) > 2. Re: Bulbs and corms as food source... (P. C. Andrews) > 3. Hippeastrum seeds (Ton Wijnen) > 4. Re: Tecophilaea from seed (Roy Herold) > 5. Re: x 'Boopharyllis' pollen sterility? (Kelly Irvin) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:59:42 +0200 > From: "Rogan Roth" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Tecophilaea from seed > To: > Message-ID: <48AE7139.2298.0024.0@ukzn.ac.za> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Hello Roger, > >>>>I also understand that seedling tecophilaea is extremely slow to reach > maturity. This implies that they need careful handling for some years.<<< > > On the contrary, I have found Tecophilaea to be extremely easy from seed. > My seedlings are planted in a 25:75 mixture of coarse river sand and > composted fir bark and are growing in a sunny position with some afternoon > shade - I feed and water regularly. After two seasons of growth my > seedlings are between two and three inches tall. > > Good luck! > > Rogan. > > Please find our Email Disclaimer here: http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer/ > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:53:49 -0400 > From: "P. C. Andrews" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Bulbs and corms as food source... > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > I rather enjoyed the acronym also. I kept thinking Unidentified > Subterranean Objects- like digging in parts of my garden. > Thanks for including the list! > It includes quite a few plants I would have considered poisonous or > borderline poisonous. They must have considered "medicinal" plants to be > fair game. > Regards, > Phil > >> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:51:33 -0700 >> From: wpoulsen@pacbell.net >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Bulbs and corms as food source... >> >> So should we now use their acronym 'USO' instead of 'geophyte'? [USO = >> Underground Storage Organs] > > > _________________________________________________________________ > See what people are saying about Windows Live. Check out featured posts. > http://www.windowslive.com/connect?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_connect2_082008 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:14:33 -0700 > From: Ton Wijnen (by way of Mary Sue Ittner > ) > Subject: [pbs] Hippeastrum seeds > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20080822071230.037119f0@mail.mcn.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Hallo > > I am searching a few seeds or a little bulb of the Hippeastrum > fragrantissimum and Hippeastrum brasillianum. > Who can help me?? > > Thank you very much. > > Kind regards > > Ton Wijnen > Holland > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:38:29 -0700 (PDT) > From: Roy Herold > Subject: Re: [pbs] Tecophilaea from seed > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <460705.80939.qm@web62403.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I, too, had some seeds result from my pollen dabbing last spring, on both > the regular and leichtlinii types. I was also encouraged to find an offset > on one of the corms when repotting last month. Is it normal to see this > sort of increase? They seemed to like Rodger's soil recommendation of > mostly grit and sand. > > For cold climates such as mine where the seed pots would be in a cool > greenhouse for the winter, should the seeds be planted now or wait until > spring? I'm guessing the former, but I don't want them to sulk and rot > during the long winter if they don't come up quickly. What would be the > typical germination time for 70f days and 50f nights? > > --Roy > NW of Boston > Starting to plant all those other seeds... > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:07:54 -0500 > From: Kelly Irvin > Subject: Re: [pbs] x 'Boopharyllis' pollen sterility? > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <48AED64A.6050200@irvincentral.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Ken: > > I'm awestruck! Very interesting and beautiful. Are you saying that all > the progeny are sterile, or just the one that looks very similar to A. > belladonna in flower structure? I find your last link to be quite > different from the other specimen. Seems strange the forms would be so > different, and I would more expect the last form than the first. I'm > assuming, with such an exposed bulb, this would be a tender hybrid? > > Mr. Kelly M. Irvin > 10850 Hodge Ln > Gravette, AR 72736 > USA > 479-787-9958 > USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b > > http://www.irvincentral.com/ > > > > Ken wrote: >> I have a question for the experts .... these crosses between >> Boophone disticha (seed parent) and Amaryllis belladonna (pollen parent) >> seem to be sterile as it appears again this year the ovaries/pods which >> swell are full of nothing but air. I have had a total of 8 scapes this >> year and nothing ... yet. >> >> Could the pollen off this hybrid be fertile? >> >> I've been brushing its pollen on hybrid A.belladonnas (with Brunsvigia >> heritage) and it appears seed is developing. I also did this last year >> and a lot of seed developed which seemed a bit larger than normal >> A.belladonna seed, but germinated well and otherwise look like normal >> A.belladonna seedlings. >> >> Here are a couple links to shots of this x'Boopharyllis' ... >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2718943764/ >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2713270134/ >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2742635323/ >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2755219211/ >> >> Ken >> San Diego >> zone 10 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 67, Issue 30 > *********************************** -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 11536 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Sat Aug 23 17:25:07 2008 Message-Id: <000701c90566$9e449e70$ab176f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: Bulbs as a food resource Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 14:24:24 -0700 Well, yes, but they probably weren't eaten straight, but put into stews with meat and herbs. They were roasted by the Shoshone and Nez Perce Indians by putting them in a large pit, layering with wet alder branches, then more bulbs, then more branches, until the pit was full. A fire was built on top and kept going for at least two or three days. The slow cooking turned the starches to sugar, and they were removed from the pit, cooled and peeled, then dried. They are like a sweet cookie this way, and could be stored for extended periods. For many western tribes they were the staple food, as important as acorns were to California Indians (and acorn soup is a bit bland, but you get used to it). Patches were weeded, but also the seed heads are very different, and one way of making sure you were getting what you wanted was to trace the stem down from the camas seed head, then dig that bulb. The bulbs are very difficult to tell apart. I used to do a presentation on bulbs used as food for Indian kids at a campout, and cooked several different bulbs various ways. Some were pretty interesting, Calochortus was the favorite when roasted, it had the flavor of a corn nut. The kids were wonderful, and ate them all, and they liked the steamed bulbs of Camassia, although they are a bit gluey all by themselves. There's a couple of postings on Native American uses of bulbs on the blog: www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs www.telosrarebulbs.com >I once tried the bulbs of Camassia. Whether C. leichtlinii or C. quamash, I > don't know. Steamed them. They had the appearance, texture, and taste of > library paste. > > You could survive on them, but it wouldn't be a gourmet's paradise. > > PS: one reads that the local Salish Indians rogued out xygadenus from the > camas > fields, and many references imply that zygadenus is only distinguishable > from > camas by havinga white flower color. > > That's nonsense written by people with no first-hand experience. The > inflorescence of zygadenus is unmistakably different from that of camas, > and > it's not white anyway: it's a dirty yellow-green. The point of similarity > and > possibly lethal confusion lies in the resemblance of the dormant bulbs. > > I collected by dinner when it was in flower, btw. > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate > > on beautiful Vancouver Island > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From othonna@gmail.com Sat Aug 23 18:10:15 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260808231510y5ac58d6fo5ec3728dc7c9201a@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Bulbs as a food resource Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:10:13 -0700 Rodger, Thanks for sharing this. Your source may have been referring to difficulty in distinguishing the bulbs of Camassia from Zigadenus. I believe they have a similar appearance and dark tunics? I've eaten the corms of blue dicks (Dichelostemma pulchellum) and remember them as being both nut-like and buttery in texture, palatable but not flavorful. I believe Carl Purdy wrote about collecting Calochortus bulbs where he would have to keep an eye on his Indian helper, lest he eat most of what he dug! Dylan Hannon On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 1:20 AM, wrote: > I once tried the bulbs of Camassia. Whether C. leichtlinii or C. quamash, I > don't know. Steamed them. They had the appearance, texture, and taste of > library paste. > > You could survive on them, but it wouldn't be a gourmet's paradise. > > PS: one reads that the local Salish Indians rogued out xygadenus from the > camas > fields, and many references imply that zygadenus is only distinguishable > from > camas by havinga white flower color. > > That's nonsense written by people with no first-hand experience. The > inflorescence of zygadenus is unmistakably different from that of camas, > and > it's not white anyway: it's a dirty yellow-green. The point of similarity > and > possibly lethal confusion lies in the resemblance of the dormant bulbs. > > I collected by dinner when it was in flower, btw. > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate > > on beautiful Vancouver Island > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From putman@pobox.upenn.edu Sat Aug 23 23:56:28 2008 Message-Id: <2013897721.919201219550175408.JavaMail.root@zm-mbx-modv.zimbra.upenn.edu> From: Stephen Putman Subject: Hippeastrum seeds Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 23:56:15 -0400 (EDT) Ton, I think I still have some small bulbs of H. brazilianum. I am away on vacation, and will be home on 29 August, when I can check in my greenhouse. Are there customs or inspection regulations for shipments to Holland? Steve Putman putman@pobox.upenn.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ton Wijnen" To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 9:14:33 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [pbs] Hippeastrum seeds Hallo I am searching a few seeds or a little bulb of the Hippeastrum fragrantissimum and Hippeastrum brasillianum. Who can help me?? Thank you very much. Kind regards Ton Wijnen Holland _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Aug 23 13:44:26 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080824103835.016e87f8@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Tecophilaea from seed Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 10:45:40 -0700 I have grown many Tecophilaea cyanocrocus from seed over the years, having purchased three corms around 1991. Since the plants rarely increase more than 100% per year vegetatively, it's advisable to do this. I plant the seed in my normal mix (equal parts coarse sand, ground pumice, and peat) in fall and leave them outside until the weather drops seriously below freezing, when I bring them into a cool frost=free sunroom with the other seeds. I don't think it gets up to 70 F very often in there, even on sunny days. They usually germinate in midwinter, two to three months after sowing, and grow on for three to five months. The big problem with growing Tecophilaea under glass is etiolation (the leaves become long and lax). Once I have corms (which can be identified readily after the first growing season), I put them in the bulb frames, where they experience winter temperatures into the 20s F while in growth. I find this species (which is subalpine in nature, growing as a snowmelt plant apparently in similar conditions to our deciduous Lewisia species) stays in character and flowers much better when grown as hard as possible. I think as long as the foliage is not wet, it can stand quite a bit of frost at night. The seedlings are also attacked by aphids when grown frost-free, but I rarely get aphids in the bulb frames. I use a granular systemic insecticide to combat aphids in the sunroom seed trays. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From miller7398@comcast.net Sun Aug 24 22:12:35 2008 Message-Id: <00f401c90658$0060c380$3f39734c@tapa965> From: "Joyce Miller" Subject: Sinningia seeds Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 19:12:18 -0700 Dear All and Mr. Tsuh, Some time ago we were asked for germination data on Sinningia seeds. I had held some of my seeds back because the first few pots became overgrown with moss before I could see any germinations. &/31 and 8/1 I sowed 2 pots of S. iarae and 2 of S. globosa. Each pot had at least one germination by 8/15 and no moss. I used the old pot in plastic bag and had them in the house. Wonder of wonders. Best wishes, Joyce Miller, Gresham, Oregon USDA 8. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark McDonough" To: Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Manfreda virginica > Hello PBS people, > > I haven't been very active on this group... it seems that I have to wait > until my annual August vacation (all of August, 4-weeks, yippee!) before I > have time to do extracurricular activities. > > I just updated the PBS wiki page with images of Manfreda virginica in > flower. Along the upper reaches of a 6' stalk are interesting rather than > beautiful flowers, but they are not without their own charm. A surprising > aspect is that the tiny whitish three-lobed tube at the center of each > stamen-esque floral construction are rather fragrant. The brownish > shading to yellowish-green oversized stamens and anthers are interesting > upon close viewing. > > I have added 4 images, taken between thunderstorms and downpours which > seem to occur multiple times daily this summer. > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Manfreda > > I grow this plant on a raised enbankment that is rather dry, getting > afternoon sun. Thanks Aaron! > > Mark McDonough > Massachusetts, near the New Hampshire border, USDA Zone 5 > antennaria@charter.net > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > __________ NOD32 3340 (20080808) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Aug 24 13:57:19 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080825110217.0173a8e8@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Bulb list Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:04:02 -0700 Several people have written to me asking about my summer surplus bulb sale list. If you're wondering, I haven't forgotten you. We had a very long, cold, wet spring this year and almost every plant was late to flower and go dormant, so I just finished lifting bulbs last week, and hope to have the list out by e-mail in a few days. Best wishes, Jane McGary From bonaventure@optonline.net Mon Aug 25 16:44:27 2008 Message-Id: From: bonaventure@optonline.net Subject: Impatiens namchabarwensis in the garden Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:44:11 +0000 (GMT) Well, I hope mine starts seeding around soon! A broken stem stuck into moist mulch/humus appears to be thriving. The first few flowers, crossed with capensis, glandulifera, and balsamina, don't appear to do anything. Very OT for a bulb group, but if you want to see a nice Impatiens that warrants inclusion into our discussions of tinctoria and flanagae, see grandis from India. It is threatened in the wild. What I hope for in breeding Impatiens is the vigor of reseeding hybrids (in my climate) with capensis and/or balsamina in their background and exotic larger flowered blood included. Bonaventure From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Mon Aug 25 17:58:18 2008 Message-Id: <000001c906fd$d273b260$4001a8c0@lindaj6m8zgi2a> From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: Belamcanda chinensis - Iris domestica Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:59:17 -0600 Hello all, Does Belamcanda have a particular pollinator? Mine is outstanding this year and covered in blooms, however I'm finding that I have to do the pollination myself. Half a dozen blooms came and went without seed pods forming until I started helping, curious. Linda Foulis Okotoks, AB Canada Zone 3 From pcamusa@hotmail.com Mon Aug 25 19:21:38 2008 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: Belamcanda chinensis - Iris domestica Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:21:29 -0400 I have seen my Belamcanda visited frequently by hummingbirds but I don't remember noticing other pollinators. Regards, Phil > From: lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:59:17 -0600 > Subject: [pbs] Belamcanda chinensis - Iris domestica > > Hello all, > Does Belamcanda have a particular pollinator? Mine is outstanding this year > and covered in blooms, however I'm finding that I have to do the pollination > myself. Half a dozen blooms came and went without seed pods forming until I > started helping, curious. > > Linda Foulis > Okotoks, AB > Canada > > Zone 3 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _________________________________________________________________ Get thousands of games on your PC, your mobile phone, and the web with Windows®. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108588800/direct/01/ From Pelarg@aol.com Mon Aug 25 22:18:55 2008 Message-Id: From: Pelarg@aol.com Subject: Impatiens grandis and lost email message Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:18:40 EDT I also have I grandis, but have not seen flowers on mine, it seems to require short days/long nights to flower. I once saw it in bloom in a greenhouse at the NYBG, it is quite pretty. It is easy from cuttings and the foliage is quite glossy but it won't flower in summer, at least in my experience. Since I keep plants indoors under lights for the winter, it doesn't get the required long nights, thus no flowers. Outdoors in favored climates or in greenhouses or rooms where lights never come on at night during the winter, it would make a nice show. Ernie (_pelarg@aol.com_ (mailto:pelarg@aol.com) ) Z6/7 Tuckahoe NY where Crocosmia aurea is putting on a nice show PS I got an email in my aol spam folder a few days ago, it had something in the subject line about re namchabarwensis post, but I inadvertently deleted it with other contents before I realized it wasn't a spam message. I did not see if it was addressed to me personally or to the group, so if someone sent me an email of such nature, please resend it. In a message dated 8/25/2008 4:44:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bonaventure@optonline.net writes: Well, I hope mine starts seeding around soon! A broken stem stuck into moist mulch/humus appears to be thriving. The first few flowers, crossed with capensis, glandulifera, and balsamina, don't appear to do anything. Very OT for a bulb group, but if you want to see a nice Impatiens that warrants inclusion into our discussions of tinctoria and flanagae, see grandis from India. It is threatened in the wild. What I hope for in breeding Impatiens is the vigor of reseeding hybrids (in my climate) with capensis and/or balsamina in their background and exotic larger flowered blood included. Bonaventure _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Aug 26 10:57:01 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Belamcanda chinensis - Iris domestica Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 08:49:38 -0500 Here in the midwest, Belemcanda/Iris domestica is pollinated by many insects and produces seeds readily. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From carlobal@netzero.net Tue Aug 26 11:15:09 2008 Message-Id: <20080826.111351.23772.0@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.net" Subject: Belamcanda chinensis - Iris domestica Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:13:51 GMT Interesting...I don't think I've EVER seen a Belemcanda that didn't produce nice amounts of seed... Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com and its BGBlog From bonaventure@optonline.net Tue Aug 26 14:13:24 2008 Message-Id: From: bonaventure@optonline.net Subject: Impatiens grandis and lost email message Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:13:23 +0000 (GMT) Wasn't me Ernie. Where is Tuckahoe? I'm right on the other side of the Outerbridge (no, not Perth Amboy NJ, bit south). Who specializes in impatiens at NYBG? Do you know Carlo? Bonaventure (becoming obsessive) From BBCNURSERY@aol.com Tue Aug 26 14:16:49 2008 Message-Id: From: BBCNURSERY@aol.com Subject: Bulb list Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:16:41 EDT Hi Jane, Please email list to us too! Greig Warner **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From carlobal@netzero.net Tue Aug 26 14:24:51 2008 Message-Id: <20080826.142345.5655.2@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.net" Subject: Impatiens grandis and lost email message Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:23:45 GMT Hey B (et al), No one "specializes" in impatiens at NYBG. At various times during the recent past they've had things going there. Marc Hachadourian is the current curator of the glasshouses and would be able to tell you what's in the collection at the moment. Ernie and I DO know each other (had lunch last week--always a good time). He and I have been messing--as have many on this list--with a goodly assortment of interesting plants, bulbous and otherwise. Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com and its BGBlog -- bonaventure@optonline.net wrote: Wasn't me Ernie. Where is Tuckahoe? I'm right on the other side of the Outerbridge (no, not Perth Amboy NJ, bit south). Who specializes in impatiens at NYBG? Do you know Carlo? Bonaventure (becoming obsessive) _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Aug 26 14:43:14 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Lycoris report - 2 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:44:24 -0500 Dear Friends, The first wave is about over- this includes Ls. squamigera, chinensis and longituba mainly. These are all winding down as stems are appearing (coincidentally a few days after a 2 inch rain fall) on L. caldwellii, incarnata and an array of hybrids. L. sprengeri overlaps both groups with stalks just coming up in some areas, but done in others. Don't know why but all the bulbs in one area come up at the same time, even though they are all out of synch with bulbs in another area. I have taken a few pix of some of the more interesting hybrids and will post them shortly. And still working on imports from China. I think the Olympics may have narrowed email channels and communications will improve soon. More to come. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From tom@evolution-plants.com Wed Aug 27 07:55:01 2008 Message-Id: From: Tom Mitchell Subject: Veratrum, Zigadenus and other Melantiaceae Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:53:21 +0100 I suspect that this will become an annual plea for anyone who has access to wild populations of species in any of the Melanthiaceae genera to get in touch with me. I'm trying to build up as comprehensive a collection as possible, from known locations, of plants in this family. Some contributors to the PBS list have already been kind enough to send me seed but I am still searching for several species, notably Veratrum fimbriatum. I have lots of interesting stuff to trade and would be more than happy to send a list of what I have available at the moment or imminently to anyone interested. Best wishes, Tom From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed Aug 27 11:52:08 2008 Message-Id: <000901c9085d$410a8900$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Fritillaria imperialis again Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:54:53 -0400 My little experiment with Fritillaria imperialis is going nicely. I checked one of the bulbs in storage for the summer yesterday, and I was surprised to find that it had produced masses of two to three inch unbranched roots. I shouldn’t have been surprised because I’ve read that this species begins to produce new roots in August. I last checked this bulb perhaps two weeks ago at the most, so this root growth is something new. The bulb has spent the summer wrapped in newspaper. What next? Three options present themselves immediately: leave the bulb in its newspaper wrapping until the soil temperatures cool down (i.e. probably sometime in October), plant it now out into the garden (the least attractive option in my view), or store the newspaper wrapped bulb in the refrigerator until planting time. I’m not sure what to do here: any suggestions? The related Fritillaria raddeana (now going into its fourth year here) shows no sign of root growth, nor do Fritillaria persica and its cultivar ‘Ivory Bells’). Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where potted Gladiolus callianthus are blooming now. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From idavide@sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 27 18:27:19 2008 Message-Id: <671708.59663.qm@web81007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Bulb list bounces Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:27:17 -0700 (PDT) Jane,   I never got your bulb list, and I haven't changed my E-mail address in years.  I'd very much like to receive it. Thank you, David Ehrlich idavide@sbcglobal.net ----- Original Message ---- From: Jane McGary To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 9:48:31 AM Subject: [pbs] Bulb list bounces I sent out my surplus bulb list yesterday and about 2 dozen messages bounced. This happens because people have changed their e-mail addresses without telling me, or because they are running a high-level spam blocker that blocks messages to multiple recipients and/or with attachments. If you expected to get it and didn't, let me know PRIVATELY, DO NOT REPLY TO THIS LIST. Thanks, Jane McGary _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From idavide@sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 27 19:05:28 2008 Message-Id: <444.12429.qm@web81006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Fritillaria imperialis again Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Jim --   We plant our bulbs in the autumn so that they’ll grow roots through autumn and winter and be ready to jumpstart spring in February.  I think they actually do their growth in autumn and stand pat during the winter.   I recently repotted a bulb by mistake that I had repotted only a month before.  I don’t know what the bulb is (that’s another story), but I was sure that this is its dormant season.  Anyway, I took photographs both times, and the root growth during this month of ‘dormancy’ was tremendous.   In fact, almost all my plants are showing great growth during these dog days of waning summer.   I don't have an answer to your Fritillaria problem, but my feeling is that if your plants can tolerate your winters, plant them out now during active root growth so that they can dig down below frost level, still get some winter rest, and be ready for spring. David Ehrlich From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed Aug 27 19:07:58 2008 Message-Id: <002201c9089a$286f0500$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Fritillaria imperialis again Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:10:53 -0400 David, where do you live and garden? Jim McKenney From kellso@irvincentral.com Wed Aug 27 19:22:51 2008 Message-Id: <48B5E1BF.4030409@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Lycoris report - 2 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:22:39 -0500 Jim: Things are a little different for me here. Lycoris squamigera, (L. Xhaywardii x L. longituba), and (L. radiata var. pumila x L. Xrosea), and L. sanguinea are completely done. I have a few blooms still holding on L. longituba and L. Xhaywardii, and my L. incarnata are past full bloom. L. sprengeri is almost done with some stalks still about to bloom and L. chinensis is almost to full bloom. L. Xhoudyshelii has just started and so has L. 'Flaming Dragon', which I believe to be a L. Xjacksoniana selection, much darker than L. Xhaywardii and obviously later, but similar in other ways. I have a lost label Lycoris that comes up at the same time as L. straminea and is very similar, but with more red stripe expression in the tepals with a more deep red colored stalk. This one divides more readily than L. straminea and the leaf is not the same. I'm pretty sure I got it from you, Jim W., but I can't figure out what it is. These are in full bloom. L. caldwellii is just about to bloom and a hybrid, L. 'Blushing Lady' and 'Cherry Blossom Pink' are just starting to come up. L. radiata var. pumila is in full bloom as well. Obviously, I have yet to see, if any, L. Xalbiflora, L. radiata var. radiata, L. aurea var. aurea, and L. aurea var. surgens in the ground (The L. aurea are winter protected). I have various other small quantities of fall foliage Lycoris in pots, with the L. shaanxiensis from Chen Yi coming up first as usual. It's spider lily bloom is the whitest bloom I've seen so far on Lycoris, and, no, I don't think it is really L. shaanxiensis, as it does not match the scientific descriptions. Nor does it appear it will bloom for me this year. I'm under the impression, at least, that this species should send up foliage in the spring if it were properly identified. It appears very tender. Everything here is in full sunshine (except potted Lycoris), although a number of my fall foliage Lycoris will likely be receiving less light from this winter forward, because the greenhouse (winter house) might FINALLY be completely up. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ James Waddick wrote: > Dear Friends, > The first wave is about over- this includes Ls. squamigera, > chinensis and longituba mainly. > These are all winding down as stems are appearing > (coincidentally a few days after a 2 inch rain fall) on L. > caldwellii, incarnata and an array of hybrids. > L. sprengeri overlaps both groups with stalks just coming up > in some areas, but done in others. Don't know why but all the bulbs > in one area come up at the same time, even though they are all out of > synch with bulbs in another area. > From idavide@sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 27 22:30:43 2008 Message-Id: <520006.8516.qm@web81006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Fritillaria imperialis again Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:30:42 -0700 (PDT) Bay area.  In the hills on the bayside, so it's considerably cooler here (but not today) than downtown Redwood City, and considerably warmer than on the ocean side of the hills. ----- Original Message ---- From: Jim McKenney To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 4:10:53 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Fritillaria imperialis again David, where do you live and garden? Jim McKenney _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From dejager@bulbargence.com Thu Aug 28 03:01:28 2008 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Fritillaria imperialis again Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:35:39 +0200 Dear Jim, All our large Fritilaria (imperialis, persica, raddeana) in the (dry) ground do not show any root dvelopment. The cause of the roots on your F imperialis surely is a humid environment. In the fridge it will get worse, you can dry them off and loose the roots, or plant them now in the gropund with a little humidity (personally I prefer the last option) Greetings -- Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence South of France (zone 9 (olive trees) emailto: dejager@bulbargence.com Site www.bulbargence.com Le 27/08/08 17:54, « Jim McKenney » a écrit : > I¹ve read that > this species begins to produce new roots in August. I last checked this bulb > perhaps two weeks ago at the most, so this root growth is something new. > > The bulb has spent the summer wrapped in newspaper. > What next? Three options present themselves immediately: leave the bulb in > its newspaper wrapping until the soil temperatures cool down (i.e. probably > sometime in October), plant it now out into the garden (the least attractive > option in my view), or store the newspaper wrapped bulb in the refrigerator > until planting time. > > I¹m not sure what to do here: any suggestions? > > The related Fritillaria raddeana (now going into its fourth year here) shows > no sign of root growth, nor do Fritillaria persica and its cultivar ŒIvory > Bells¹). From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Aug 28 09:36:38 2008 Message-Id: <000601c90913$822dd480$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Fritillaria imperialis again Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:39:33 -0400 Lauw de Jager wrote that all of the large Fritillaria (imperialis, persica, raddeana) in the (dry) ground do not show any root development. "The cause of the roots on your F imperialis surely is a humid environment." Thanks, Lauw. It's hard to avoid humidity here! Your response has answered another un-asked question for me, too: if you are growing Fritillaria imperialis in the zone Olivier of France, then I think I can rule out summer heat as a limiting factor. Of course I know that this plant grows in the wild in some very hot countries; but it is often described as a mountain plant. And presumably the mountains are cooler than the low lands: but maybe not! I hear reports of success with this plant north and west of me, but never east or due south of me. The fact that many reports of success originated to the north suggested that heat might be a limiting factor. But evidently it is not. I think I am making progress in figuring out what this plant needs under our conditions. Thanks, Jim McKenney From dejager@bulbargence.com Thu Aug 28 10:28:05 2008 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Fritillaria imperialis again Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:27:50 +0200 Jim, I cannot say that F. imperialis is thriving here, merely surviving. F radeana seems a little more at ease with a mediterranean climate. The heat and the drought is ok for them in the summer, but they certainly need more cold in the winter then they get here. Greetings -- Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence South of France (zone 9, olive trees) emailto: dejager@bulbargence.com Site www.bulbargence.com Le 28/08/08 15:39, « Jim McKenney » a écrit : > Your response has answered another un-asked question for me, too: if you are > growing Fritillaria imperialis in the zone Olivier of France, then I think I > can rule out summer heat as a limiting factor. > > Of course I know that this plant grows in the wild in some very hot > countries; but it is often described as a mountain plant. And presumably the > mountains are cooler than the low lands: but maybe not! > > I hear reports of success with this plant north and west of me, but never > east or due south of me. The fact that many reports of success originated to > the north suggested that heat might be a limiting factor. But evidently it > is not. > > I think I am making progress in figuring out what this plant needs under our > conditions. > > Thanks, > > Jim McKenney > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From kjblack@pacbell.net Thu Aug 28 11:53:40 2008 Message-Id: <274597.10564.qm@web81103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: summer water for Brunsvigia josephinae? Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:53:38 -0700 (PDT) a fellow bulb enthusiast suggested that perhaps I should give my Brunsvigia josephinae an occasional drink during the summer ... but then somewhat retracted that suggestion concerned that he might be 'blamed' if the bulb rotted.   My bulbs are in the ground, light but rocky clay, on a slope.   I generally do not irrigate them ... although I suppose they have extensive roots which may obtain some moisture from the deeper soil levels. We generally receive no measurable rain from April through October here in San Diego, although last year, a freak summer thunderstorm did dump nearly an inch one August day.  The top 18" of soil is usually bone dry.    Any suggestions from the experts out there?    My 3 B.josephinae scapes are entering their 9th day of growth.  Here's a link to some shots at 1, 4 & 8 days of growth:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/   Ken San Diego From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Aug 28 12:09:45 2008 Message-Id: <001201c90928$e6ea0cd0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Fritillaria imperialis again Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:12:42 -0400 Good, now we're getting somewhere. Thanks, Lauw. Have you been able to observe when the bulbs of Fritillaria imperialis begin to root under your conditions? Thanks, Jim From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Thu Aug 28 12:37:05 2008 Message-Id: <3b9284cd0808280937m381015ceu9b33d021d7d16850@mail.gmail.com> From: "Jan Agoston" Subject: Fritillaria imperialis again Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:37:02 +0200 Dear Jim, Here in the middle-east of europe the normal root development of F. imperialis begins as early as late july. We advice our customers to plant them immediately, because we saw that bulbs planted before root development succeded better than thos planted with roots. The roots break easily and fusarium attacks them soon. Here october planted bulbs died out on clay, but was a bit more succesfull on sand. A dutch trader told me, that they usually have problems with F. imperialis, because the bulbs dry out so soon (even more problems with F. meleagris). Regards, Janos 2008/8/28 Jim McKenney > Good, now we're getting somewhere. Thanks, Lauw. > > Have you been able to observe when the bulbs of Fritillaria imperialis > begin > to root under your conditions? > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From Billthebulbbaron@aol.com Thu Aug 28 12:39:22 2008 Message-Id: From: Billthebulbbaron@aol.com Subject: summer water for Brunsvigia josephinae? Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:39:19 EDT In a message dated 8/28/08 8:54:03 AM, kjblack@pacbell.net writes: > although last year, a freak summer thunderstorm did dump nearly an inch one > August day. > Ken, I suspect it gets the occasional summer thunderstorm in its natural habitat also. I had one once planted with some crinum that got watered weekly thruout the summer. It grew great but never flowered. Until the year I let those crinums go dry. Then it came just fine. One or the other I guess! It thrives in old gardens inTasmania, but I am not sure about the amount of summer rainfall there Maybe Jim Lykos can give us the final word on this... Best wishes, Bill the Bulb Baron www.BilltheBulbBaron.com William R.P. Welch Please make all checks payable to William R.P. Welch, and use my NEW address: 1031-B Cayuga Street, Santa Cruz, CA 95062, USA New phone numbers as well: Phone (831) 236-8397 fax ONLY (831) 426-4915--HOWEVER I much prefer orders etc placed WITHIN an email (NOT as an attachment) COMPARED to fax as I don't know yet how to transfer fax text over on to my computer where I need it--thanks! ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Aug 27 12:41:50 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080828094700.01764cc0@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Bulb list bounces Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:48:31 -0700 I sent out my surplus bulb list yesterday and about 2 dozen messages bounced. This happens because people have changed their e-mail addresses without telling me, or because they are running a high-level spam blocker that blocks messages to multiple recipients and/or with attachments. If you expected to get it and didn't, let me know PRIVATELY, DO NOT REPLY TO THIS LIST. Thanks, Jane McGary From rgb2@cornell.edu Thu Aug 28 13:19:06 2008 Message-Id: From: Robin Bell Subject: Fritillaria imperialis again Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:19:02 -0400 Well, Jim, here's one report of F. imperialis to the east of you. I've had the yellow form in my garden for perhaps 10 - 12 years, maybe more, don't remember. They don't even get a full days sun & they increase slowly every year. Until last Fall? maybe the one before, I had never disturbed the clump & the ones I moved seemed to do fine. Every other batch of F imperialis I've tried has lasted a year or three & then disappeared. I don't bother anymore to order any outsiders as I'm nervous about possible viruses etc. Hope I haven't jinxed myself now. Robin Bell Zone 5, Ithaca, NY From jglatt@hughes.net Thu Aug 28 14:02:57 2008 Message-Id: <48B6E847.3060103@hughes.net> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: Fritillaria imperialis Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:02:47 -0400 Fritillaria imperialis grows well on a partially shaded clay / subsoil slope here in New Jersey near the Delaware Rive. Never disturbed after planting 10 or 12 years ago. Increasing by offsets. There are 5 groups, started with 3 or 5 bulbs per each. Not all bulbs in a clump flower, but some flower every spring. Fritillaria meleagris grows quite well along the edge of woodland, and I believe it too is increasing. My triage is as follows: little ones get planted before larger ones. Naked / no tunic get priority of those with tunic. Any that are known to root early - and I'd certainly include Fritillaria imperialis in this group - also receive earlier rather than later planting. Anyone who is late summer / autumn flowering, such as colchicum also receive priority. Who waits? Tulips especially. Muscari 'Christmas Pearl' is already sending up foliage, silly things. Judy in crispy New Jersey where the last rain was August 15. It's been sunny, cool, and crisp. Even weeds and trees are showing signs of stress, not to mention the water carrier. From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Aug 28 14:33:29 2008 Message-Id: <001c01c9093c$f6cdf3f0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Fritillaria imperialis again Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:36:18 -0400 Robin Bell wrote: “Well, Jim, here's one report of F. imperialis to the east of you.” That's funny, Robin. You're only about half a degree east of me! But you're also far to the north of me, so that doesn't count. I once had one Fritillaria imperialis which lived in my garden for about twenty years. For the first ten or so it did not bloom, but then it began to bloom and bloomed until it died. It too grew in a shaded site. But I'm really impressed that your plant is one of the yellow ones! For me they have been even more touchy than the others. And you've successfully moved them - great. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, -77.090º West, USDA zone 7, where Colchicum alpinum is blooming. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Aug 28 18:42:16 2008 Message-Id: <002401c9095f$b6d36460$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Fritillaria imperialis again Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:45:03 -0400 Hi, Janos, good to hear from you; we have not heard from you in a while. Last fall I did a little experiment. I took two nice fresh healthy bulbs of Fritillaria imperialis which had already initiated root growth and put them in small zip-lock plastic bags with a barely damp piece of paper towel. My initial motivation in doing this was to preserve the roots until I had a chance to plant the bulbs into the garden. But as it turned out, those bulbs went through the winter in the little bags. The bags were put outside in a protected place to allow exposure to the cold. Sometime in early March I finally planted those bulbs into the garden. They grew well and bloomed although they were not as tall as some I’ve seen. And they went on to make good bulbs. This suggests to me that this species does not need much water in the autumn or winter – or at least it can endure with low water levels. In general, I think a lot of bulbs don’t need much water except when they are in active vegetative growth. But if they don’t have it then, they suffer. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Thu Aug 28 19:44:46 2008 Message-Id: <26805903.1219967085717.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: Fritillaria imperialis Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:44:45 -0500 (GMT-05:00) . Anyone who is >late summer / autumn flowering, such as colchicum also receive priority. >Who waits? I had colchicum flowers this morning. Can't ID them as they are a jumble since the move from CT. Cheers, Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 7b-8 From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Aug 28 19:55:46 2008 Message-Id: <002901c90969$fbd66e40$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Fritillaria imperialis again Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:58:34 -0400 While we’re on the topic of Fritillaria imperialis, I’ll mention something which many of you might not be aware of. To make it a bit more interesting, I’ll use a bit (OK, a lot) of hyperbole: Fritillaria imperialis as we know it might soon be extinct in cultivation. Another possibility: the plant you grow as Fritillaria imperialis might not be. What’s all this about? A week or two ago I was looking at the web site of one of the big Dutch firms which specializes in crown imperials (crowns imperial?). Evidently they have already been successful in hybridizing Fritillaria imperialis with other closely related species such as F. raddeana, F. chitralensis and F. eduardii. One goal is to hybridize with other species which do not have the strong characteristic odor of F. imperialis. As I recall the web site showed mass plantings of these hybrids: my guess is that they are already making the rounds, especially if they do not meet the hybridist’s goals. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Aug 28 20:16:38 2008 Message-Id: <002e01c9096c$eb6f07d0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Fritillaria imperialis again Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:19:35 -0400 Jane McGary wrote: " I hope to raise a viable population of this plant in this way." YOU GO, GIRL! Jim McKenney From jshields@indy.net Thu Aug 28 21:28:15 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080828212518.03096868@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Fwd: Establishing taxa as "present" Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:28:29 -0400 For Your Information. Please read carefully, especially for future reference. Jim Shields >From: Joyce Fingerut >To: Dave Richards , > Ian Plenderleith , > Edward Buyarski , > Ian Bainbridge , > Greg Bourke , > Daryl Geoghegan , > Carol Quinn , > Mike Brown , > Anne Wright , > Sue Haffner , > Philip Downs , > Leo Smit , > Jody Haynes , > Lars Høpfner , > Morgan Smith , > Tony Palmer , > Faye Brawner , > Joyce Fingerut , > Gregg Miller , > Pat Lorenz , > Vojtech Holubec , > Jude & Michael Fanton , > Ghan Chee , > Marc Colombel , > Will Plotner , > Dell Sherk , > Deborah Cole , > Jim Shields , > Larry Diehl , > John van der Linde , > Chris Vlok , > Malcolm McGregor , > Bob McFarlane , > Alan Hill , > tommyhayes@esatclear.ie, > Ray Stephenson , > Leslie Milde , > "Berit K. Ostby / Eivind Damsleth" , > Scott Cook , > e.j.gouda@bio.uu.nl, > Ron Lance , > Tim Marshall , > Maureen Janson , > Murray McCallister , > Richard Laurie , > matilija@verizon.net, > Pat Toolan , > Clive Lane , > Peter Shalit , > Tom Cox , > Dorothy Minors , > Fleur Pavlidis , > Pat Toolan , > Jeremy Spon , > Diane Clement >Subject: Establishing taxa as "present" >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:20:37 -0400 > > >To the members of IHSEA - > >Once the latest standard from NAPPO (RSPM No. 32) is published in October, >it will require that the participating countries of Canada, Mexico, and >the United States establish a screening process for all new plant taxa, >which will effectively act as an import barrier into those countries. >Eventually, this RSPM will be the basis of a similar international >standard, under the IPPC and will affect all countries (or at least those >that are signatories to the IPPC, close to 200 nations). >The standard demands that countries enact new regulations/legislation >requiring screening on all future introductions for potential >invasiveness. The screening process would be a form of Weed Risk >Assessment which would have to be completed on any taxon that is not >already present in the country before it will be permitted to enter (be >imported). > >If horticultural societies are to continue to operate seed exchanges, they >must be capable of importing seeds from donors in other countries, as well >as distributing their seeds to members in other countries. Therefore, it >is crucial that we make certain that each country has the largest possible >database of plants as already existing within its borders. Every >specialist plant society must work to see that all its taxa are considered >to be "already present" in its own, and possibly other, >countries. National governmental plant protection organizations (like >APHIS in the US, DEFRA in the UK, CFIA in Canada.....) must be persuaded >that although these plants are not present in commercial Big Box >quantities, they are being grown in both private and public gardens and >offered by the endless array of small specialist nurseries. >(Handling the proposed screening of new items will be another problem, for >another day) > >In the United States, a new project to write a comprehensive "Flora of >Cultivated Plants" is beginning, headed by Dr. Tom Elias, Director of the >National Arboretum. Fortunately, he sees the point of including plants >listed in seed exchanges. He is interested in the seed database that NARGS >currently operates, and my guess is that he would also include the taxa >from other organizations' databases, so that as many genera could be >covered in as great a depth as possible. >-> If other US-based societies would be interested in having the plants in >their seed exchange databases included in the Flora, please contact me. > >My personal feeling is also that, since so many societies based in other >countries have US members, there is a fair chance that the taxa listed in >their exchanges have made their way into US gardens and nurseries. >Therefore, taxa listed on almost any seedlist should be considered as >being cultivated in the US. >-> If I can move the Flora's committee to this way of thinking about the >globalness of horticulture, would other societies, in other countries >(especially Canada and the UK), be interested in having their databases >included? > >I am on the contact list for this project and will attend its next meeting >(not yet scheduled). It would ultimately be helpful to everyone if I can >take a complete record of ALL the plants that we assume are being grown >in the US.....from all sources. Let me hear your thoughts on this >issue. Please contact me with questions - and, especially offers - either >through this list or privately. > >Thank you - >Joyce > > >Joyce Fingerut > >Government Liaison, > >North American Rock Garden Society > >http://www.nargs.org > >Member organization: > >International Horticultural Seed Exchange Advocacy (IHSEA) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From hansennursery@coosnet.com Fri Aug 29 00:44:34 2008 Message-Id: <004401c90991$db541b40$3ff064d0@homed4aec9b2d8> From: "Robin Hansen" Subject: Fwd: Establishing taxa as "present" Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:43:40 -0700 Jim, I'm a small specialist nursery. Do you think that at some point, such nurseries would be of any help by providing their catalogs, in addition to seed exchange lists? Robin Hansen Hansen Nursery North Bend, Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: J.E. Shields To: IBSMembers ; Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 6:28 PM Subject: [pbs] Fwd: Establishing taxa as "present" For Your Information. Please read carefully, especially for future reference. Jim Shields >From: Joyce Fingerut >To: Dave Richards , > Ian Plenderleith , > Edward Buyarski , > Ian Bainbridge , > Greg Bourke , > Daryl Geoghegan , > Carol Quinn , > Mike Brown , > Anne Wright , > Sue Haffner , > Philip Downs , > Leo Smit , > Jody Haynes , > Lars Høpfner , > Morgan Smith , > Tony Palmer , > Faye Brawner , > Joyce Fingerut , > Gregg Miller , > Pat Lorenz , > Vojtech Holubec , > Jude & Michael Fanton , > Ghan Chee , > Marc Colombel , > Will Plotner , > Dell Sherk , > Deborah Cole , > Jim Shields , > Larry Diehl , > John van der Linde , > Chris Vlok , > Malcolm McGregor , > Bob McFarlane , > Alan Hill , > tommyhayes@esatclear.ie, > Ray Stephenson , > Leslie Milde , > "Berit K. Ostby / Eivind Damsleth" , > Scott Cook , > e.j.gouda@bio.uu.nl, > Ron Lance , > Tim Marshall , > Maureen Janson , > Murray McCallister , > Richard Laurie , > matilija@verizon.net, > Pat Toolan , > Clive Lane , > Peter Shalit , > Tom Cox , > Dorothy Minors , > Fleur Pavlidis , > Pat Toolan , > Jeremy Spon , > Diane Clement >Subject: Establishing taxa as "present" >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:20:37 -0400 > > >To the members of IHSEA - > >Once the latest standard from NAPPO (RSPM No. 32) is published in October, >it will require that the participating countries of Canada, Mexico, and >the United States establish a screening process for all new plant taxa, >which will effectively act as an import barrier into those countries. >Eventually, this RSPM will be the basis of a similar international >standard, under the IPPC and will affect all countries (or at least those >that are signatories to the IPPC, close to 200 nations). >The standard demands that countries enact new regulations/legislation >requiring screening on all future introductions for potential >invasiveness. The screening process would be a form of Weed Risk >Assessment which would have to be completed on any taxon that is not >already present in the country before it will be permitted to enter (be >imported). > >If horticultural societies are to continue to operate seed exchanges, they >must be capable of importing seeds from donors in other countries, as well >as distributing their seeds to members in other countries. Therefore, it >is crucial that we make certain that each country has the largest possible >database of plants as already existing within its borders. Every >specialist plant society must work to see that all its taxa are considered >to be "already present" in its own, and possibly other, >countries. National governmental plant protection organizations (like >APHIS in the US, DEFRA in the UK, CFIA in Canada.....) must be persuaded >that although these plants are not present in commercial Big Box >quantities, they are being grown in both private and public gardens and >offered by the endless array of small specialist nurseries. >(Handling the proposed screening of new items will be another problem, for >another day) > >In the United States, a new project to write a comprehensive "Flora of >Cultivated Plants" is beginning, headed by Dr. Tom Elias, Director of the >National Arboretum. Fortunately, he sees the point of including plants >listed in seed exchanges. He is interested in the seed database that NARGS >currently operates, and my guess is that he would also include the taxa >from other organizations' databases, so that as many genera could be >covered in as great a depth as possible. >-> If other US-based societies would be interested in having the plants in >their seed exchange databases included in the Flora, please contact me. > >My personal feeling is also that, since so many societies based in other >countries have US members, there is a fair chance that the taxa listed in >their exchanges have made their way into US gardens and nurseries. >Therefore, taxa listed on almost any seedlist should be considered as >being cultivated in the US. >-> If I can move the Flora's committee to this way of thinking about the >globalness of horticulture, would other societies, in other countries >(especially Canada and the UK), be interested in having their databases >included? > >I am on the contact list for this project and will attend its next meeting >(not yet scheduled). It would ultimately be helpful to everyone if I can >take a complete record of ALL the plants that we assume are being grown >in the US.....from all sources. Let me hear your thoughts on this >issue. Please contact me with questions - and, especially offers - either >through this list or privately. > >Thank you - >Joyce > > >Joyce Fingerut > >Government Liaison, > >North American Rock Garden Society > >http://www.nargs.org > >Member organization: > >International Horticultural Seed Exchange Advocacy (IHSEA) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.10/1638 - Release Date: 8/27/2008 7:06 PM From hansennursery@coosnet.com Fri Aug 29 00:47:26 2008 Message-Id: <004c01c90992$41d20d50$3ff064d0@homed4aec9b2d8> From: "Robin Hansen" Subject: Fwd: Establishing taxa as "present" Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:46:25 -0700 Hi, Mom, Those apples judy sent down are wonderful. I made an apple crunch to take camping and the smell is overwhelming, but I'm determined to take it intact... I ran up to Lakeside to get Naomi's kayak. She said her oldest son would be down soon to put a roof on her shed in back. She's just not her chipper old self yet. And is still walking with a distinct limp. Will see you tomorrow, if only briefly. I've been running around like a madwoman,but things are pretty organized. I just have to load tomorrow and fill the ice chest. Love, Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: J.E. Shields To: IBSMembers ; Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 6:28 PM Subject: [pbs] Fwd: Establishing taxa as "present" For Your Information. Please read carefully, especially for future reference. Jim Shields >From: Joyce Fingerut >To: Dave Richards , > Ian Plenderleith , > Edward Buyarski , > Ian Bainbridge , > Greg Bourke , > Daryl Geoghegan , > Carol Quinn , > Mike Brown , > Anne Wright , > Sue Haffner , > Philip Downs , > Leo Smit , > Jody Haynes , > Lars Høpfner , > Morgan Smith , > Tony Palmer , > Faye Brawner , > Joyce Fingerut , > Gregg Miller , > Pat Lorenz , > Vojtech Holubec , > Jude & Michael Fanton , > Ghan Chee , > Marc Colombel , > Will Plotner , > Dell Sherk , > Deborah Cole , > Jim Shields , > Larry Diehl , > John van der Linde , > Chris Vlok , > Malcolm McGregor , > Bob McFarlane , > Alan Hill , > tommyhayes@esatclear.ie, > Ray Stephenson , > Leslie Milde , > "Berit K. Ostby / Eivind Damsleth" , > Scott Cook , > e.j.gouda@bio.uu.nl, > Ron Lance , > Tim Marshall , > Maureen Janson , > Murray McCallister , > Richard Laurie , > matilija@verizon.net, > Pat Toolan , > Clive Lane , > Peter Shalit , > Tom Cox , > Dorothy Minors , > Fleur Pavlidis , > Pat Toolan , > Jeremy Spon , > Diane Clement >Subject: Establishing taxa as "present" >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:20:37 -0400 > > >To the members of IHSEA - > >Once the latest standard from NAPPO (RSPM No. 32) is published in October, >it will require that the participating countries of Canada, Mexico, and >the United States establish a screening process for all new plant taxa, >which will effectively act as an import barrier into those countries. >Eventually, this RSPM will be the basis of a similar international >standard, under the IPPC and will affect all countries (or at least those >that are signatories to the IPPC, close to 200 nations). >The standard demands that countries enact new regulations/legislation >requiring screening on all future introductions for potential >invasiveness. The screening process would be a form of Weed Risk >Assessment which would have to be completed on any taxon that is not >already present in the country before it will be permitted to enter (be >imported). > >If horticultural societies are to continue to operate seed exchanges, they >must be capable of importing seeds from donors in other countries, as well >as distributing their seeds to members in other countries. Therefore, it >is crucial that we make certain that each country has the largest possible >database of plants as already existing within its borders. Every >specialist plant society must work to see that all its taxa are considered >to be "already present" in its own, and possibly other, >countries. National governmental plant protection organizations (like >APHIS in the US, DEFRA in the UK, CFIA in Canada.....) must be persuaded >that although these plants are not present in commercial Big Box >quantities, they are being grown in both private and public gardens and >offered by the endless array of small specialist nurseries. >(Handling the proposed screening of new items will be another problem, for >another day) > >In the United States, a new project to write a comprehensive "Flora of >Cultivated Plants" is beginning, headed by Dr. Tom Elias, Director of the >National Arboretum. Fortunately, he sees the point of including plants >listed in seed exchanges. He is interested in the seed database that NARGS >currently operates, and my guess is that he would also include the taxa >from other organizations' databases, so that as many genera could be >covered in as great a depth as possible. >-> If other US-based societies would be interested in having the plants in >their seed exchange databases included in the Flora, please contact me. > >My personal feeling is also that, since so many societies based in other >countries have US members, there is a fair chance that the taxa listed in >their exchanges have made their way into US gardens and nurseries. >Therefore, taxa listed on almost any seedlist should be considered as >being cultivated in the US. >-> If I can move the Flora's committee to this way of thinking about the >globalness of horticulture, would other societies, in other countries >(especially Canada and the UK), be interested in having their databases >included? > >I am on the contact list for this project and will attend its next meeting >(not yet scheduled). It would ultimately be helpful to everyone if I can >take a complete record of ALL the plants that we assume are being grown >in the US.....from all sources. Let me hear your thoughts on this >issue. Please contact me with questions - and, especially offers - either >through this list or privately. > >Thank you - >Joyce > > >Joyce Fingerut > >Government Liaison, > >North American Rock Garden Society > >http://www.nargs.org > >Member organization: > >International Horticultural Seed Exchange Advocacy (IHSEA) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.10/1638 - Release Date: 8/27/2008 7:06 PM From hansennursery@coosnet.com Fri Aug 29 00:48:31 2008 Message-Id: <005001c90992$76948590$3ff064d0@homed4aec9b2d8> From: "Robin Hansen" Subject: Wrong Message to PBS Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:47:53 -0700 Please accept my abject apologies - I must be really tired. I believe I sent a personal e-mail to the list. Mea culpa, mea culpa. Robin Hansen From totototo@telus.net Fri Aug 29 00:59:15 2008 Message-Id: <19740414223344.E9F01931381ACF56@priv-edtnaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Fritillaria imperialis again Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:04:58 -0700 On 28 Aug 08, at 19:58, Jim McKenney wrote: > As I recall the web site showed mass plantings of these hybrids: my guess is > that they are already making the rounds, especially if they do not meet the > hybridist’s goals. Actually, good plant breeders ruthlessly destroy sub-par seedlings. Whether these particular hybridists qualify as "good" I cannot say. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=48.4676,-123.3262&ll=48.4676,-123.3262&z=14 From jimlykos@optusnet.com.au Fri Aug 29 02:00:56 2008 Message-Id: <007201c9099c$99ffdc00$ed606c3a@jimlykos> From: "Jim lykos" Subject: summer water for Brunsvigia josephinae? Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:00:55 +1000 Hi Ken and Bill, Brunsvigia josephinea has flowered for me from the beginning of the final month of summer to mid way through the first month of Autumn. Typically it flowers from the 2nd to 3rd weeks of the final month of summer. I live in a relatively winter dry - summer wet climate with a sandy loam soil. Bill is correct in pointing to the occasional mid summer heavy rain storm for bringing B josephinea into leaf during summer - particularly if there is a good temperature gradient between the heat of summer and a cooling break with rainfall for a week or two. If the summer has been mild with lower temperatures than normal and autumn has arrived a few weeks early - there is a good chance that josephinea will go into leaf and not flower that season. Early summer rainfall doesn't usually appear to influence earlier flowering unless the strong heat of summer is broken with a marked cooler period for a week or two. My advice is to leave B josephinea in a dry state until early August, and hand water it twice if a substantial rain storm hasnt occurred by this time - your garden bed drainage seems ideal. Cheers Jim Lykos ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 1:53 AM Subject: [pbs] summer water for Brunsvigia josephinae? a fellow bulb enthusiast suggested that perhaps I should give my Brunsvigia josephinae an occasional drink during the summer ... but then somewhat retracted that suggestion concerned that he might be 'blamed' if the bulb rotted. My bulbs are in the ground, light but rocky clay, on a slope. I generally do not irrigate them ... although I suppose they have extensive roots which may obtain some moisture from the deeper soil levels. We generally receive no measurable rain from April through October here in San Diego, although last year, a freak summer thunderstorm did dump nearly an inch one August day. The top 18" of soil is usually bone dry. Any suggestions from the experts out there? My 3 B.josephinae scapes are entering their 9th day of growth. Here's a link to some shots at 1, 4 & 8 days of growth: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/ Ken San Diego _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Fri Aug 29 09:39:49 2008 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A0D8D7743@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Fwd: Establishing taxa as "present" Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:39:13 -0500 Hi Jim: USDA APHIS gave a presentation on this subject at the recent American Society of Horticultural Sciences annual meeting. Indeed they have chosen to implement the Australian Weed Risk Assessment Model which is predicated upon the existence of a national database of all plants currently grown in the country. The presenters want to set a minimum limit - say 3 growers for each taxon before it would make the list. They also want to ban any plant that has been listed as a weed anywhere in the World regardless of whether it is already in the USA and has not shown invasive tendencies in this country. At this time, they are implementing the protocol without a national database - in other words all plants will be subjected to a Weed Risk Assessment. When we evaluated different models for our use at CBG we found this model produced an excessive number of false positives - in the range of 58% - 87% of the taxa not capable of becoming invasive were denied entry in an effort to insure that no invasive plant is ever imported. From the speakers perspective this level of error was acceptable. Chicago Botanic Garden has led the botanic garden and arboretum community in developing software that will create an online comprehensive list of all taxa currently grown or that have been grown in botanic gardens and arboreta. We've proven the software works - now we need to expand the number of participants beyond the 16 American and two overseas participants. I've changed the business logic of the database to permit information about a taxon to be listed without an accession number after realizing that most smaller growers will not assign accession numbers to their collections. What's next? We need to refine the Portal to this information and that requires us to ask the folks that run Google Base to slightly modify 3 elements of their business logic to permit records to be sorted by scientific name, over a 1,000 records to be returned at one time, and add support for Mandarin. One of our overseas partners, Beijing Botanical Garden is working with us to create a translation protocol to translate all English records into Mandarin for use by Chinese scientists and all Mandarin records into English for our use. Over half of the ornamental plants grown in the USA originated from Chinese germplasm. Apparently the USDA APHIS has never kept a record of the plants that have been imported into the USA. The support of NARGS and PBS towards creating a national database (our botanic garden "PlantCollections" database has committed to providing data to the Flora of Cultivated Plants) is extremely important. Many thanks, Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel: 847-835-6841 fax: 847-835-1635 email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of J.E. Shields Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 8:28 PM To: IBSMembers; Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Fwd: Establishing taxa as "present" For Your Information. Please read carefully, especially for future reference. Jim Shields >From: Joyce Fingerut >To: Dave Richards , > Ian Plenderleith , > Edward Buyarski , > Ian Bainbridge , > Greg Bourke , > Daryl Geoghegan , > Carol Quinn , > Mike Brown , > Anne Wright , > Sue Haffner , > Philip Downs , > Leo Smit , > Jody Haynes , > Lars Høpfner , > Morgan Smith , > Tony Palmer , > Faye Brawner , > Joyce Fingerut , > Gregg Miller , > Pat Lorenz , > Vojtech Holubec , > Jude & Michael Fanton , > Ghan Chee , > Marc Colombel , > Will Plotner , > Dell Sherk , > Deborah Cole , > Jim Shields , > Larry Diehl , > John van der Linde , > Chris Vlok , > Malcolm McGregor , > Bob McFarlane , > Alan Hill , > tommyhayes@esatclear.ie, > Ray Stephenson , > Leslie Milde , > "Berit K. Ostby / Eivind Damsleth" , > Scott Cook , > e.j.gouda@bio.uu.nl, > Ron Lance , > Tim Marshall , > Maureen Janson , > Murray McCallister , > Richard Laurie , > matilija@verizon.net, > Pat Toolan , > Clive Lane , > Peter Shalit , > Tom Cox , > Dorothy Minors , > Fleur Pavlidis , > Pat Toolan , > Jeremy Spon , > Diane Clement >Subject: Establishing taxa as "present" >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:20:37 -0400 > > >To the members of IHSEA - > >Once the latest standard from NAPPO (RSPM No. 32) is published in October, >it will require that the participating countries of Canada, Mexico, and >the United States establish a screening process for all new plant taxa, >which will effectively act as an import barrier into those countries. >Eventually, this RSPM will be the basis of a similar international >standard, under the IPPC and will affect all countries (or at least those >that are signatories to the IPPC, close to 200 nations). >The standard demands that countries enact new regulations/legislation >requiring screening on all future introductions for potential >invasiveness. The screening process would be a form of Weed Risk >Assessment which would have to be completed on any taxon that is not >already present in the country before it will be permitted to enter (be >imported). > >If horticultural societies are to continue to operate seed exchanges, they >must be capable of importing seeds from donors in other countries, as well >as distributing their seeds to members in other countries. Therefore, it >is crucial that we make certain that each country has the largest possible >database of plants as already existing within its borders. Every >specialist plant society must work to see that all its taxa are considered >to be "already present" in its own, and possibly other, >countries. National governmental plant protection organizations (like >APHIS in the US, DEFRA in the UK, CFIA in Canada.....) must be persuaded >that although these plants are not present in commercial Big Box >quantities, they are being grown in both private and public gardens and >offered by the endless array of small specialist nurseries. >(Handling the proposed screening of new items will be another problem, for >another day) > >In the United States, a new project to write a comprehensive "Flora of >Cultivated Plants" is beginning, headed by Dr. Tom Elias, Director of the >National Arboretum. Fortunately, he sees the point of including plants >listed in seed exchanges. He is interested in the seed database that NARGS >currently operates, and my guess is that he would also include the taxa >from other organizations' databases, so that as many genera could be >covered in as great a depth as possible. >-> If other US-based societies would be interested in having the plants in >their seed exchange databases included in the Flora, please contact me. > >My personal feeling is also that, since so many societies based in other >countries have US members, there is a fair chance that the taxa listed in >their exchanges have made their way into US gardens and nurseries. >Therefore, taxa listed on almost any seedlist should be considered as >being cultivated in the US. >-> If I can move the Flora's committee to this way of thinking about the >globalness of horticulture, would other societies, in other countries >(especially Canada and the UK), be interested in having their databases >included? > >I am on the contact list for this project and will attend its next meeting >(not yet scheduled). It would ultimately be helpful to everyone if I can >take a complete record of ALL the plants that we assume are being grown >in the US.....from all sources. Let me hear your thoughts on this >issue. Please contact me with questions - and, especially offers - either >through this list or privately. > >Thank you - >Joyce > > >Joyce Fingerut > >Government Liaison, > >North American Rock Garden Society > >http://www.nargs.org > >Member organization: > >International Horticultural Seed Exchange Advocacy (IHSEA) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Aug 29 11:29:51 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Lycoris report - 2 Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:44:40 -0500 >Things are a little different for me here. Dear Kelly, As (relatively) close as you are to me, I am surprised that your bloom sequence is quite so different. The fall foliage types do not do very well here as we are cold enough to cause lots of winter damage, L. radiata is among the most reliable for me, but it won't bloom until late Sept or early Oct. >Lycoris in pots, with the L. shaanxiensis >from Chen Yi coming up first as usual. It's spider lily bloom is the >whitest bloom I've seen so far on Lycoris, and, no, I don't think it is >really L. shaanxiensis, as it does not match the scientific >descriptions. I don't know if Chen Yi has ever sent a correctly ID ed Lycoris. The true shaanxiensis has has white flowers, but it is not especially spidery and the stamens do NOT protrude from the corolla. The ones I have seen from her have long protruding stamens and spidery ruffled petals. She also sells things like "pink' aurea (no such thing) etc. Right now L. caldwellii has become the star of the garden. I counted one big clump with almost 50 flower stalks coming up. Should be show this weekend. One thing I failed to mention in earlier posts is that Lycoris make surprisingly good cut flowers. Cut stems at their base, then cut to fit the vase. They will last much longer indoors, than out. The only problem is that the base of the stems split and then curls up. In China they are sold as cut flowers. And they still keep coming. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Aug 29 11:29:52 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: What ? Already? Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:48:31 -0500 Friends, Yesterday I made a quick run to Wal-Mart - admittedly NOT the Horticultural center of the city - and was surprised to see bins of fall bulbs set out for sale- Iris to Tulips, Hyacinths and all the basics. This seems very early for commercial displays. Of course they were also finalizing the Halloween displays, too - including candy that should be completely eaten before Halloween which is over 2 months away! Happy Labor Day those in the US. Summer's over (at least on the calendar). Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Aug 29 11:29:56 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Fwd: Establishing taxa as "present" Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:59:23 -0500 Friends, It seems to me there may be quite a few 'collection holders'. that grow a lot of specialty plants that may not show up on many commercial or seed list, but are still circulated and 'present'. I think of my own fairly large number of Lycoris and others with similar esoteric species and selections of Hippeastrum, Gethyllis, Nerine and more. In the perennial area there are even more. Within Lycoris as a poor example, all the species have been grown in the US except for 1 rare obscure species. Even if all the grown species are given the OK, how could any reasonable list exclude the last rare species if it ever were to come into cultivation? Shouldn't the entire genus get approval.? If 20 of 21 species are "present", what is the chance that one unknown will be the one that is invasive? I am sure the same must be true of numerous other at the genus level and possibly at the Family level. Are there any weedy carnivorous plants? Weedy Tecophiliaceae. ? etc. Thinking about this as another heavy hand of the government. Will it make any sense? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From kjblack@pacbell.net Fri Aug 29 11:37:44 2008 Message-Id: <41234.4339.qm@web81107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: summer water for Brunsvigia josephinae? Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:37:32 -0700 (PDT) Bill, Jim ... Thank you both!   In the future, I may give my bulbs a mid-late summer drink.  As it happens, the weather folks here are predicting a good chance of rain today!   Warm moist air from the Sea of Cortez is pushing its way unusually far to the West and we currently have what look like rain clouds overhead.  This happens sometimes and any rain that does fall, usually does so as virga, teasing us coastal San Diegans mercilessly.  We shall see if any measurable amount actually hits the ground.   My 3 scapes continue to expand ... I expect the first florets to open late today or tomorrow ... unless the rain, if it actually occurs, has an affect on them.  The largest scape, on a bulb which has bloomed in each of the last 3 years, appears it will have 36 flowers.  The other two, blooming for the first time this year, appear to have 22 and 19 flowers, respectively.  I am hopeful the ability to cross pollinate will produce more seed, as I have had very little production from my one bloom the last 3 years.   I have heard that B.josephinae can have as many as 80-100 florets ... is this true in your collective experiences?   Ken San Diego   --- On Thu, 8/28/08, Jim lykos wrote: Bill is correct in pointing to the occasional mid summer heavy rain storm for bringing B josephinea into leaf during summer ... From kellso@irvincentral.com Fri Aug 29 11:43:24 2008 Message-Id: <48B8190F.2000806@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Lycoris report - 2 Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:43:11 -0500 James Waddick wrote: > > One thing I failed to mention in earlier posts is that > Lycoris make surprisingly good cut flowers. Cut stems at their base, > then cut to fit the vase. The trick here is to twist a rubber band around the base just above where your final vase cut will be. This solves the splitting problem. From Billthebulbbaron@aol.com Fri Aug 29 12:29:28 2008 Message-Id: From: Billthebulbbaron@aol.com Subject: summer water for Brunsvigia josephinae? Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:29:23 EDT In a message dated 8/29/08 8:38:09 AM, kjblack@pacbell.net writes: > is this true in your collective experiences? >   > Ken , I think it was 87 I counted on Wayne Roderick's plant (PLEASE note new address & phone/fax numbers below Thanks!) Best wishes, Bill the Bulb Baron www.BilltheBulbBaron.com William R.P. Welch Please make all checks payable to William R.P. Welch, and use my NEW address: 1031-B Cayuga Street, Santa Cruz, CA 95062, USA New phone numbers as well: Phone (831) 236-8397 fax ONLY (831) 426-4915--HOWEVER I much prefer orders etc placed WITHIN an email (NOT as an attachment) COMPARED to fax as I don't know yet how to transfer fax text over on to my computer where I need it--thanks! ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From kjblack@pacbell.net Fri Aug 29 12:42:35 2008 Message-Id: <591149.664.qm@web81102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: bloom count for Brunsvigia josephinae? Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:42:34 -0700 (PDT) Hey Bill ... THANKS!   most of my B.josephinae bulbs are from seed off Wayne's bulb he gave me in 1995.  So, hopefully, flower count will increase each year.    Ken   --- On Fri, 8/29/08, Billthebulbbaron@aol.com wrote: I think it was 87 I counted on Wayne Roderick's plant From idavide@sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 29 15:26:06 2008 Message-Id: <250214.13361.qm@web81002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Allium scorzoneriifolium Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:26:05 -0700 (PDT) Jane McGary’s bulb list includes Allium scorzoneriifolium.  Now, scorzonera can refer to members of the genus Scorzonera, especially S. hispanica (= Black salsify) whose leaves resemble those of ramps, which are Alliums.  But scorzonera also refers to Tragopogon porrifolius (= Salsify) whose specific name means leaves like those of a leek, which is also an Allium.  So, ultimately, A. scorzoneriifolium means having leaves which resemble those of another plant whose leaves resemble those of an Allium!  In other words, an Allium which is notable for having leaves like those of an Allium.   I sometimes think of Botanists as a group of guys who after drinking a few rounds settle down to the serious, if not particularly sober business of nomenclature. From samarak@gizmoworks.com Fri Aug 29 15:53:14 2008 Message-Id: From: Steve Marak Subject: Lycoris report - 2 Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:53:12 -0500 (CDT) I'm in NW Arkansas, US, about 320 km (200 miles) south of Jim, and roughly a tenth that far southeast of Kelly, with weather and climate similar to both (a bit warmer than Jim), and my results are different yet. Here the L. radiata is in full flower right now, with the last big flush of L. chinensis, which has the longest "season" of any of the Lycoris for me. It has adapted to my conditions as well the ubiquitous L. squamigera, and I've several times had people ring the doorbell to ask what it is when it really hits its stride. L. longituba has large seed pods on it, L. squamigera is past but for a few stragglers. My L. radiata, obtained locally years ago, sets lots of seed every year and so I assume it's the diploid form, which may account for the difference in flowering time - it's the only form I've ever grown, so I don't really know. (If anyone wants any, I'll collect and send to Dell this year.) I have one clump of L. chinensis and one of L. longituba that always flower at least 10 days, and sometimes as much as 3 weeks, before their fellows. Have others seen this also? Steve On Fri, 29 Aug 2008, James Waddick wrote: > >Things are a little different for me here. > > Dear Kelly, > As (relatively) close as you are to me, I am surprised that > your bloom sequence is quite so different. > > The fall foliage types do not do very well here as we are > cold enough to cause lots of winter damage, L. radiata is among the > most reliable for me, but it won't bloom until late Sept or early Oct. -- Steve Marak -- samarak@gizmoworks.com From kellso@irvincentral.com Fri Aug 29 16:02:39 2008 Message-Id: <48B855D3.8060707@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Lycoris report - 2 Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:02:27 -0500 Steve: My L. radiata var. pumila are in full bloom, too, not expecting the var. radiata for another week or so. I guess I'm amazed that you are successfully growing them without protection. I must admit I've not tried to grow them without winter protection, but maybe I could??? Are yours on a south slope or wall? Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ Steve Marak wrote: > L. longituba has large seed pods on it, L. squamigera is past but for a > few stragglers. My L. radiata, obtained locally years ago, sets lots of > seed every year and so I assume it's the diploid form, which may account > for the difference in flowering time - it's the only form I've ever grown, > so I don't really know. (If anyone wants any, I'll collect and send to > Dell this year.) From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Fri Aug 29 16:24:14 2008 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A0D8D7AF2@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Fwd: Establishing taxa as "present" Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:22:56 -0500 Hi Jim: The Lycoris is a great example. I am not aware of any Lycoris that have escaped from cultivation and naturalized in natural areas either in the USA or overseas. That would be a 'plus' in the evaluation model. Since it is rare and little known, there may be other questions on the evaluation in which it doesn't rank so well but until we see the final evaluation form questions and know about the specifics of the biology of the species there is no way to predict if it would be accepted for entry or not. Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel: 847-835-6841 fax: 847-835-1635 email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James Waddick Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 9:59 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Fwd: Establishing taxa as "present" Friends, It seems to me there may be quite a few 'collection holders'. that grow a lot of specialty plants that may not show up on many commercial or seed list, but are still circulated and 'present'. I think of my own fairly large number of Lycoris and others with similar esoteric species and selections of Hippeastrum, Gethyllis, Nerine and more. In the perennial area there are even more. Within Lycoris as a poor example, all the species have been grown in the US except for 1 rare obscure species. Even if all the grown species are given the OK, how could any reasonable list exclude the last rare species if it ever were to come into cultivation? Shouldn't the entire genus get approval.? If 20 of 21 species are "present", what is the chance that one unknown will be the one that is invasive? I am sure the same must be true of numerous other at the genus level and possibly at the Family level. Are there any weedy carnivorous plants? Weedy Tecophiliaceae. ? etc. Thinking about this as another heavy hand of the government. Will it make any sense? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From samarak@gizmoworks.com Fri Aug 29 16:45:10 2008 Message-Id: From: Steve Marak Subject: Lycoris report - 2 Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:45:08 -0500 (CDT) Kelly, No, there's really nothing in the way of winter protection where the L. radiata are - our entire lot does slope gently to the west, but there's no ridge or other protection feature. I certainly don't do anything in the way of mulching or otherwise helping them! They've been there at least 15 years, maybe more, so they've been through some zone 6 winters, as opposed to what we have seen for the last 9 years or so (no temperatures below -18 C/0 F at our place). L. radiata is far less common in yards in this area than L. squamigera, but isn't that rare, and some of them have been there for as long as anyone in the households can remember with little or no care. I'm always reluctant to suggest someone else risk their bulbs in a hardiness test, and you get a bit colder than we do, but I'd think your odds were good. They do produce fertile seed, and they've been in the area for at least decades - perhaps there has been some selection at work? Steve On Fri, 29 Aug 2008, Kelly Irvin wrote: > Steve: > > My L. radiata var. pumila are in full bloom, too, not expecting the var. > radiata for another week or so. I guess I'm amazed that you are > successfully growing them without protection. I must admit I've not > tried to grow them without winter protection, but maybe I could??? > > Are yours on a south slope or wall? > > Steve Marak wrote: > > few stragglers. My L. radiata, obtained locally years ago, sets lots of > > seed every year and so I assume it's the diploid form, which may account -- Steve Marak -- samarak@gizmoworks.com From kellso@irvincentral.com Fri Aug 29 17:23:29 2008 Message-Id: <48B868C7.70204@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Lycoris report - 2 Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:23:19 -0500 Steve Marak wrote: > They do produce fertile seed, and they've been in the area for at least > decades - perhaps there has been some selection at work? > > Steve Very, very possible. That would be useful, too, for breeding purposes, besides extending the red spider lily season up here. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Aug 28 19:02:47 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080829160726.017ccb48@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Fritillaria imperialis again Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:08:49 -0700 Last year I ordered every list item of Fritillaria imperialis from the NARGS seed exchange, and for the first time got excellent germination on all of them. I just potted up about 20 seedling bulbs and settled them in the frames. They were fully dormant and about the size of a green pea. I hope to raise a viable population of this plant in this way. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From jimlykos@optusnet.com.au Sat Aug 30 09:24:14 2008 Message-Id: <001601c90aa3$b07fc3c0$ed606c3a@jimlykos> From: "Jim lykos" Subject: summer water for Brunsvigia josephinae? Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 23:24:10 +1000 HI Ken, My experience in flowering Brunsvigia josephinea is that flower count will decline progressively if you set seed each year. The high flower counts arise from a couple of years of rest as a seed parent. The highest flower count in the mature josephinea I've grow is 60. This is also directly related to the number of leaves that the bulb supported in the previous season. This year my mature B. josephinea has 14 large leaves and I'm anticipating a large flower count in February 2009. However if you harvest seed from every flower then you can expect the flower count in the following year to be as low as 25, or no flowering at all and a significantly lower leaf count. Self pollinated seed set is a factor of the overall level of plant vigor - ie the higher the flower count the more likely it is that the B. josephinea will set seed from a selfing. Below 30 flowers I've been unable to set any seed from self pollination whereas a josephinea with 50 flowers will produce almost optimal selfing seed set - and there is a gradient in between these levels. Good growing Jim Lykos Blue Mountains Sydney ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 1:37 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] summer water for Brunsvigia josephinae? Bill, Jim ... Thank you both! In the future, I may give my bulbs a mid-late summer drink. As it happens, the weather folks here are predicting a good chance of rain today! Warm moist air from the Sea of Cortez is pushing its way unusually far to the West and we currently have what look like rain clouds overhead. This happens sometimes and any rain that does fall, usually does so as virga, teasing us coastal San Diegans mercilessly. We shall see if any measurable amount actually hits the ground. My 3 scapes continue to expand ... I expect the first florets to open late today or tomorrow ... unless the rain, if it actually occurs, has an affect on them. The largest scape, on a bulb which has bloomed in each of the last 3 years, appears it will have 36 flowers. The other two, blooming for the first time this year, appear to have 22 and 19 flowers, respectively. I am hopeful the ability to cross pollinate will produce more seed, as I have had very little production from my one bloom the last 3 years. I have heard that B.josephinae can have as many as 80-100 florets ... is this true in your collective experiences? Ken San Diego --- On Thu, 8/28/08, Jim lykos wrote: Bill is correct in pointing to the occasional mid summer heavy rain storm for bringing B josephinea into leaf during summer ... _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From msittner@mcn.org Sat Aug 30 11:59:26 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080830083420.03506eb0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions - Moraea Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 08:50:00 -0700 Hi, I've added some more Moraea pictures from Cameron McMaster and Rod Saunders to the wiki. Most of them are summer rainfall species, photographed by Cameron in habitat on some of his trips, some found in the Drakensberg. I added additional photos of Moraea albicuspa and Moraea alticoloa and a new species to the wiki, Moraea alpina. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MoraeaSpeciesOne I added additional photos of Moraea brevistyla http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MoraeaSpeciesTwo#brevistyla This next one, Moraea insolens, is a very rare species found near Caledon. This is the only one from the winter rainfall area, often not seen unless there has been a fire. This is from a scanned slide of Rod's so don't know when it was last seen and don't know if anyone grows it. It's really beautiful. I think Cameron has just written an article about it in the weekly newspaper column he writes for farmers so if he reads this he might want to tell us more. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MoraeaSpeciesFive#insolens New species to the wiki Moraea modesta, a short species with small flowers that blooms before the leaves http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MoraeaSpeciesSix#modesta Additional pictures of Moraea trifida http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MoraeaSpeciesNine#trifida New species Moraea vigilans was added. When I was trying to find out more about it since it was newly named in 2000 and isn't in my Moraea book, I found a nice description in one of my IBSA bulletins that also had a description of Moraea vespertina named at the same time. We had pictures of M. vespertina on the wiki, but didn't know much about it except it opened very late in the day and closed several hours later (not doubt the reason it was named as it was and was not discovered by early plant explorers). So I added text for it as well. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MoraeaSpeciesTen Nhu recently broke up the Hippeastrum page since it was getting very long and added a table. He chose a few pictures of some of the species to add to the table page to make it more attractive and I really liked the way that looked. I decided to do that for Moraea when I was adding the new species to the table. It was very challenging to pick since there are so many species and great pictures to choose from. I decided to do six pictures of some of the subgroups (Galaxia, Gynandriris, Hexaglottis, Homeria) and six pictures from the Moraea subgroup. If you want to check out my choices: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Moraea Mary Sue From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Aug 29 11:57:50 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080830085958.01790690@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Fwd: Establishing taxa as "present" Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:04:18 -0700 Jim, thank you for forwarding Joyce's report. For those who don't know already, Joyce Fingerut, a past president of the North American Rock Garden Society, was the leader in getting the Small Lots of Seed import process approved several years ago, after APHIS was transferred to the Department of Homeland Security and began to prohibit individuals from buying seed from abroad. I would be glad to publish information on this in the Rock Garden Quarterly, which has an international readership. In particular, I'd like people to know how to format their databases of plants they are growing (many of us keep this information up to date) so that the data can be incorporated in the database Boyce Tankersley mentioned. Contributions toward such an article can be sent to me privately, and I can combine them and return the result to contributors for their approval. Jane McGary Editor, NARGS At 08:39 AM 8/29/2008 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Jim: > >USDA APHIS gave a presentation on this subject at the recent American >Society of Horticultural Sciences annual meeting. Indeed they have chosen >to implement the Australian Weed Risk Assessment Model which is predicated >upon the existence of a national database of all plants currently grown in >the country. > >The presenters want to set a minimum limit - say 3 growers for each taxon >before it would make the list. They also want to ban any plant that has >been listed as a weed anywhere in the World regardless of whether it is >already in the USA and has not shown invasive tendencies in this country. > >At this time, they are implementing the protocol without a national >database - in other words all plants will be subjected to a Weed Risk >Assessment. When we evaluated different models for our use at CBG we found >this model produced an excessive number of false positives - in the range >of 58% - 87% of the taxa not capable of becoming invasive were denied >entry in an effort to insure that no invasive plant is ever imported. From >the speakers perspective this level of error was acceptable. > >Chicago Botanic Garden has led the botanic garden and arboretum community >in developing software that will create an online comprehensive list of >all taxa currently grown or that have been grown in botanic gardens and >arboreta. We've proven the software works - now we need to expand the >number of participants beyond the 16 American and two overseas >participants. I've changed the business logic of the database to permit >information about a taxon to be listed without an accession number after >realizing that most smaller growers will not assign accession numbers to >their collections. > >What's next? We need to refine the Portal to this information and that >requires us to ask the folks that run Google Base to slightly modify 3 >elements of their business logic to permit records to be sorted by >scientific name, over a 1,000 records to be returned at one time, and add >support for Mandarin. One of our overseas partners, Beijing Botanical >Garden is working with us to create a translation protocol to translate >all English records into Mandarin for use by Chinese scientists and all >Mandarin records into English for our use. Over half of the ornamental >plants grown in the USA originated from Chinese germplasm. > >Apparently the USDA APHIS has never kept a record of the plants that have >been imported into the USA. > >The support of NARGS and PBS towards creating a national database (our >botanic garden "PlantCollections" database has committed to providing data >to the Flora of Cultivated Plants) is extremely important. > >Many thanks, > >Boyce Tankersley >Director of Living Plant Documentation >Chicago Botanic Garden >1000 Lake Cook Road >Glencoe, IL 60022 >tel: 847-835-6841 >fax: 847-835-1635 >email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org >-----Original Message----- >From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] >On Behalf Of J.E. Shields >Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 8:28 PM >To: IBSMembers; Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: [pbs] Fwd: Establishing taxa as "present" > >For Your Information. > >Please read carefully, especially for future reference. > >Jim Shields > > > > >From: Joyce Fingerut > >To: Dave Richards , > > Ian Plenderleith , > > Edward Buyarski , > > Ian Bainbridge , > > Greg Bourke , > > Daryl Geoghegan , > > Carol Quinn , > > Mike Brown , > > Anne Wright , > > Sue Haffner , > > Philip Downs , > > Leo Smit , > > Jody Haynes , > > Lars Høpfner , > > Morgan Smith , > > Tony Palmer , > > Faye Brawner , > > Joyce Fingerut , > > Gregg Miller , > > Pat Lorenz , > > Vojtech Holubec , > > Jude & Michael Fanton , > > Ghan Chee , > > Marc Colombel , > > Will Plotner , > > Dell Sherk , > > Deborah Cole , > > Jim Shields , > > Larry Diehl , > > John van der Linde , > > Chris Vlok , > > Malcolm McGregor , > > Bob McFarlane , > > Alan Hill , > > tommyhayes@esatclear.ie, > > Ray Stephenson , > > Leslie Milde , > > "Berit K. Ostby / Eivind Damsleth" , > > Scott Cook , > > e.j.gouda@bio.uu.nl, > > Ron Lance , > > Tim Marshall , > > Maureen Janson , > > Murray McCallister , > > Richard Laurie , > > matilija@verizon.net, > > Pat Toolan , > > Clive Lane , > > Peter Shalit , > > Tom Cox , > > Dorothy Minors , > > Fleur Pavlidis , > > Pat Toolan , > > Jeremy Spon , > > Diane Clement > >Subject: Establishing taxa as "present" > >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:20:37 -0400 > > > > > >To the members of IHSEA - > > > >Once the latest standard from NAPPO (RSPM No. 32) is published in October, > >it will require that the participating countries of Canada, Mexico, and > >the United States establish a screening process for all new plant taxa, > >which will effectively act as an import barrier into those countries. > >Eventually, this RSPM will be the basis of a similar international > >standard, under the IPPC and will affect all countries (or at least those > >that are signatories to the IPPC, close to 200 nations). > >The standard demands that countries enact new regulations/legislation > >requiring screening on all future introductions for potential > >invasiveness. The screening process would be a form of Weed Risk > >Assessment which would have to be completed on any taxon that is not > >already present in the country before it will be permitted to enter (be > >imported). > > > >If horticultural societies are to continue to operate seed exchanges, they > >must be capable of importing seeds from donors in other countries, as well > >as distributing their seeds to members in other countries. Therefore, it > >is crucial that we make certain that each country has the largest possible > >database of plants as already existing within its borders. Every > >specialist plant society must work to see that all its taxa are considered > >to be "already present" in its own, and possibly other, > >countries. National governmental plant protection organizations (like > >APHIS in the US, DEFRA in the UK, CFIA in Canada.....) must be persuaded > >that although these plants are not present in commercial Big Box > >quantities, they are being grown in both private and public gardens and > >offered by the endless array of small specialist nurseries. > >(Handling the proposed screening of new items will be another problem, for > >another day) > > > >In the United States, a new project to write a comprehensive "Flora of > >Cultivated Plants" is beginning, headed by Dr. Tom Elias, Director of the > >National Arboretum. Fortunately, he sees the point of including plants > >listed in seed exchanges. He is interested in the seed database that NARGS > >currently operates, and my guess is that he would also include the taxa > >from other organizations' databases, so that as many genera could be > >covered in as great a depth as possible. > >-> If other US-based societies would be interested in having the plants in > >their seed exchange databases included in the Flora, please contact me. > > > >My personal feeling is also that, since so many societies based in other > >countries have US members, there is a fair chance that the taxa listed in > >their exchanges have made their way into US gardens and nurseries. > >Therefore, taxa listed on almost any seedlist should be considered as > >being cultivated in the US. > >-> If I can move the Flora's committee to this way of thinking about the > >globalness of horticulture, would other societies, in other countries > >(especially Canada and the UK), be interested in having their databases > >included? > > > >I am on the contact list for this project and will attend its next meeting > >(not yet scheduled). It would ultimately be helpful to everyone if I can > >take a complete record of ALL the plants that we assume are being grown > >in the US.....from all sources. Let me hear your thoughts on this > >issue. Please contact me with questions - and, especially offers - either > >through this list or privately. > > > >Thank you - > >Joyce > > > > > >Joyce Fingerut > > > >Government Liaison, > > > >North American Rock Garden Society > > > >http://www.nargs.org > > > >Member organization: > > > >International Horticultural Seed Exchange Advocacy (IHSEA) > >************************************************* >Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. >P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ >Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA >Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Aug 29 16:22:07 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080830093259.017d23b8@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Fwd: Establishing taxa as "present" Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:39:49 -0700 Jim Waddick wrote, Even if all the >grown species are given the OK, how could any reasonable list exclude >the last rare species if it ever were to come into cultivation? >Shouldn't the entire genus get approval.? You couldn't go by that. For example, there are tiny alpine Centaurea species that will never invade anything, but that are grown by a few rock gardeners; but no one would suggest that the entire genus is safe. (Probably all the invasive ones are already here, however.) Are there any weedy >carnivorous plants? Weedy Tecophiliaceae. ? etc. Oddly enough, the carnivorous North American species Sarracenia purpurea has been the subject of concern after being introduced to one or more bogs in Britain. I don't know if it's really "weedy" or if this is just an extremist view. It can form pretty dense colonies in its native habitat, though. Anybody who likes to grow non-native plants and is also contributing to the Natural Resources Defense Fund should become familiar with that organization's stance on exotic plants, which I regard as extreme. Regarding databases, I keep one on my bulbs, but this tells me I need to go around and make an updated list of the trees, shrubs, and perennials here. I'd need it anyway once I put the place up for sale, since I'm hoping to attract gardeners instead of somebody who'll clearcut and bulldoze the whole place to plant Christmas trees. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From kjblack@pacbell.net Sat Aug 30 12:49:33 2008 Message-Id: <908616.13273.qm@web81104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: summer water for Brunsvigia josephinae? Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:49:31 -0700 (PDT) GREAT information, Jim!   Thank you very much.  Perhaps I will only try to pollinate my largest bulb this year, or ... maybe just one or two flowers on the newer blooming bulbs!?!  I am hoping to get at least some seed.    Your comment about possible lack of bloom following a year of seed set was especially interesting.  I had that experience with my B.litoralis, which bloomed in 2005, set from 4-13 seeds on each of its 12 florets.  The following year, no bloom ... but I repeated similar bloom and seed set last (2007) year as in 2005.  Of course, there could have been other factors too.    Do you think irrigation during seed formation may help offset some of the stress on the bulb?  Also, do you fertilize?  Another California grower indicated he had 5 blooms on his plants this year after applying ash last winter during the growth cycle.  His bulbs are in pots, though.   here's a link to a photo I shot this morning of mine, now with two open flowers:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2811584970/sizes/l/   Thanks again!   Ken San Diego, California   --- On Sat, 8/30/08, Jim lykos wrote: My experience in flowering Brunsvigia josephinea is that flower count will decline progressively if you set seed each year. The high flower counts arise from a couple of years of rest as a seed parent. The highest flower count in the mature josephinea I've grow is 60. This is also directly related to the number of leaves that the bulb supported in the previous season. This year my mature B. josephinea has 14 large leaves and I'm anticipating a large flower count in February 2009. However if you harvest seed from every flower then you can expect the flower count in the following year to be as low as 25, or no flowering at all and a significantly lower leaf count. Self pollinated seed set is a factor of the overall level of plant vigor - ie the higher the flower count the more likely it is that the B. josephinea will set seed from a selfing. Below 30 flowers I've been unable to set any seed from self pollination whereas a josephinea with 50 flowers will produce almost optimal selfing seed set - and there is a gradient in between these levels. Good growing Jim Lykos Blue Mountains Sydney From perdy@mts.net Sat Aug 30 12:59:03 2008 Message-Id: <0EB43BEE46F740378BA173D9CFA07627@DAndersonPC> From: "D Anderson" Subject: summer water for Brunsvigia josephinae? Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:58:58 -0500 Ken, amazing bulb and blooms! Would be cool to find seeds. Did add you as a friend in Flickr. :) Donna in Winnipeg, Manitoba ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] summer water for Brunsvigia josephinae? GREAT information, Jim! Thank you very much. Perhaps I will only try to pollinate my largest bulb this year, or ... maybe just one or two flowers on the newer blooming bulbs!?! I am hoping to get at least some seed. Your comment about possible lack of bloom following a year of seed set was especially interesting. I had that experience with my B.litoralis, which bloomed in 2005, set from 4-13 seeds on each of its 12 florets. The following year, no bloom ... but I repeated similar bloom and seed set last (2007) year as in 2005. Of course, there could have been other factors too. Do you think irrigation during seed formation may help offset some of the stress on the bulb? Also, do you fertilize? Another California grower indicated he had 5 blooms on his plants this year after applying ash last winter during the growth cycle. His bulbs are in pots, though. here's a link to a photo I shot this morning of mine, now with two open flowers: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2811584970/sizes/l/ Thanks again! Ken San Diego, California --- On Sat, 8/30/08, Jim lykos wrote: My experience in flowering Brunsvigia josephinea is that flower count will decline progressively if you set seed each year. The high flower counts arise from a couple of years of rest as a seed parent. The highest flower count in the mature josephinea I've grow is 60. This is also directly related to the number of leaves that the bulb supported in the previous season. This year my mature B. josephinea has 14 large leaves and I'm anticipating a large flower count in February 2009. However if you harvest seed from every flower then you can expect the flower count in the following year to be as low as 25, or no flowering at all and a significantly lower leaf count. Self pollinated seed set is a factor of the overall level of plant vigor - ie the higher the flower count the more likely it is that the B. josephinea will set seed from a selfing. Below 30 flowers I've been unable to set any seed from self pollination whereas a josephinea with 50 flowers will produce almost optimal selfing seed set - and there is a gradient in between these levels. Good growing Jim Lykos Blue Mountains Sydney _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki