From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Mar 1 10:49:00 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Down to the wire -Spring - KC Style Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 09:49:01 -0600 Dear friends, The extra leap day of February has allowed me to make some spring bloom claims in the garden. Enough ice melted to see some actual flowering and even more potential. Today, March 1 is forecast up to 60 degrees F before it plunges back into the mid-teens in a day or two. So I can make the following tally: Narcissus (minor) 'Cedric Morris' fully opened a day or two during a slight melting. Eranthis (Winter Aconite ) - 2 flowers fully open, but many others turning upwards. Galanthus nivalis (mostly) Quite a few turning down and some expanding, but none quite open- perhaps later today. Crocus - none, but anticipating C. sieberi 'Firefly' and C. ancyrensis if the sun and today's warming persist. Both show color. Cyclamen ( I think caucasicum) showing color and turning up barely. Still in tight bud. Adonis amurensis up and 'trying'. Not what you'd call a spring display, but a hint. The forecast calls for a low of 18 or 19 tomorrow and heavy rains on still deeply frozen ground. It is definitely 'not nice' out, but some day soon..... Optimistically yours Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sat Mar 1 13:09:07 2008 Message-Id: <001e01c87bc7$200e1000$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Scilla peruviana, Narcissus tazetta 'Ziva' Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:07:33 -0500 Last year when we discussed Scilla (Oncostema) peruviana, so many people in zone 7-ish localities reported success that I decided to try this species again. In years past it always froze during the winter. Not trusting our climate, I planted a bulb into the ground of the protected cold frame. This plant is now pushing up fat cones of buds. I've mentioned the Narcissus tazetta cultivar 'Ziva' in my posts or byline several times. I didn't expect it to get much notice from this group, but it's worth mentioning again. It's been in bloom in the protected cold frame since at least the second week of February. The flowers last and last. This is a huge contrast to daffodils which bloom in the garden later in the year: if the weather is warm during daffodil time, you can almost watch the bloom go off the petals during the first morning they are fully open. But these 'Ziva' in the cold frame seem fresh as newly open flowers after being open for weeks. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Fritillaria raddeana has joined F. stenanthera in bloom. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From julietleigh@ihug.co.nz Sat Mar 1 21:20:36 2008 Message-Id: <001b01c87c0b$f2f228a0$4201a8c0@JulietsLaptop> From: "Juliet Leigh" Subject: Winterflowering Kniphofias Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 15:20:10 +1300 Hi guys, These are photos I took yesterday of Kniphofias ( species?)flowering on the side of the road. There were also some nerines (sp?)-earlier than my garden by a long way. Maybe the grass acted as a mulch during the arid January-early-Feb we had, so they were ready to go once we had some cooler nights. Juliet Leigh Northland, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Avent" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 12:46 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Winterflowering Kniphofias John: I would agree that genetic distribution plays a role in Gladiolus dalenii as we have seen this first hand. We have clones that bloom in May/June and others that flower in October/November. Such has not been the case with kniphofia. We were given "earlier flowering forms" of K. rooperi and K. sarmentosa that flowered starting in fall and all winter when grown about 3 hours south (1 zone warmer). When we planted them, they changed cycles and flowered during the time that we know as normal for those species, K. rooperi in the late summer through early October and late March for K. sarmentosa. I've since grown both from numerous wild collections, and unlike the gladiolus have seen no difference in flowering times. Thoughts? Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent Lauw de Jager wrote: > Tony, > As John and Ellen confirm, this must have something to o with region of > origin of the various populations. The same cause of the difference in > flowering period was noted for Gladiolus dalenii. > Greetings > > Lauw de Jager > > > Le 28/02/08 13:26, « Tony Avent » a écrit : > >> I continue to be fascinated by how climate affects flowering time. >> Kniphofia rooperi flowers here from August-October. >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From djordan68@comcast.net Sun Mar 2 01:41:29 2008 Message-Id: From: "Deborah Jordan" Subject: Begonia boliviensis Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 00:38:31 -0600 Hi all-- I recently obtained seeds of this in a trade that was really for some other species. I had mentioned I wanted something nice and longer blooming for the shady patio this summer. Since we are having enough translation problems with our original trade (my Spanish leaves much to be desired!) I didn't want to trouble him for even more translation aggravations. I noticed Mary Sue had some really nice pictures of this in the WIKI--so thought someone might could give me some hints. Specifically, average germination times, temps, time to flowering (I had hoped that would be short), dormancy requirements (there is dry and then really dry!). I grow a lot of bulbs from seeds but never any begonia's. Forgive me if this has been a topic of threads in the past, I looked but if its there, I did not see it. If so, point me to a year and I'll find it. Also, not much found in the typical google search either. Thanks in advance and stay safe all, Debbie in sunny Houston (high today 79F) Texas; clear blue skies, birds chirping, and six species of Freesia's, freely blooming! From julietleigh@ihug.co.nz Sun Mar 2 04:16:30 2008 Message-Id: <001701c87c46$1f851730$4201a8c0@JulietsLaptop> From: "Juliet Leigh" Subject: Attention Mary Sue Ittner Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 22:16:39 +1300 Please advise how I become a PBS list member and an approved wiki user. Thank you. Juliet Leigh, 12 Ellen Street Mangawhai Heads, New Zealand From khixson@nu-world.com Sun Mar 2 12:51:46 2008 Message-Id: <47CAE930.1090908@nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Begonia boliviensis Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2008 09:51:44 -0800 Hi, Deborah I'm not an expert on Begonias, but I did plant a few seeds of B. boliviensis about the first of January under a flourescent light fixture. Begonia seed is very small, and slow to get started. They mostly need to be kept warm--about 70-75F, and moist. Drying out is fatal until they've reached the tuber formation size. My seedlings now have one or two leaves about 3/16" across, and now will start to grow faster. They should flower by mid-summer here. B. boliviensis is fairly hardy, and can be left in the ground to about Zone 7 or 7b. Not totally dry, just not soggy wet when dormant. I haven't tried digging it and keeping it indoors in winter, but would treat it like tuberous begonias. Someone else may have better suggestions. Ken From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun Mar 2 14:34:21 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: What a difference..... Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 13:21:41 -0600 Dear Friends, What a difference a day or two of 60 degrees can make. After reporting a paucity of bloom just 2 days ago, the garden today has hundreds of crocus, Galanthus, Eranthis and buds are swelling mightily. I was shocked to find a fully open flower and a 2nd bud on Galanthus elwesii 'Rosemary Burnham' a cv which I don't think has ever bloomed for me during its years of residence. The plant and flower are small, the flowers a cool green so it may easily have skipped my notice. The forecast still shows nights in the 20s and a dip into the teens so there's a halt in exuberance on its way, but right now the sun is shining and a light shirt does not DEMAND a heavy jacket outdoors. Surely spring is on its way. Anticipating. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From dejager@bulbargence.com Mon Mar 3 02:33:29 2008 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Winterflowering Kniphofias Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 08:33:14 +0100 John, My K rooperi came from an old garden on the Côte d'Azur (Villa Noaille, Hyères) of unknwown origin. K sarmentosa: seed of Johan Loubser (Sutherland) and Rachel Saunders (Karoo) Le 29/02/08 14:12, « Ellen Hornig » a écrit : > John Grimshaw wrote: > > Tony, Lauw and Ellen: do your plants come from known wild provenances? From LucGBulot@aol.com Mon Mar 3 12:09:41 2008 Message-Id: <8CA4B678D462949-83C-275B@webmail-md13.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Pushkinia and Scilla Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 12:02:52 -0500 Hi all, My scillas started to show up today.... Updating my files I notived that Pushkinia is not taken into account by the PBS wiki pages and archives while IPNI still seems to keep the genus separate with the following list of species: Puschkinia hyacinthoides Baker -- in Linn. Soc. Journ. xi. (1871) 435. (IK) Puschkinia peshmenii Rix & B.Mathew -- Curtis's Bot. Mag. 24(1): 56 (54-57; plate 582, fig., photo). 2007 Puschkinia scilloides Adams -- in Nov. Act. Acad. Petrop. xiv. (1805) 164. (IK) P. libanotica and P. sicula are considered as synonyms of P. scilloides. Does anybody on the list have a clue about what is the state of the art for Pushkinia ? Best wishes, Luc From maxwithers@gmail.com Mon Mar 3 13:13:10 2008 Message-Id: <47CC3E3E.9080904@gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: Bulbinella latifolia ssp. doleritica Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 10:06:54 -0800 Thank you, Mary Sue. I wish I could take credit for brilliant gardening, but the fact that I bought it at Annie's Annuals suggests that it is at least relatively easy in the Bay Area, presumably because of our rainfall, as you suggest. Oakland averages about 24 inches a year, though last year was very dry, approximately 15" total. (According to SAWS, annual rainfall at Calvinia is 228mm [=8.9"]). My special techniques consist of doing nothing. It's planted in the "bulb bed", which is nothing more than a raised bed with a lot of gravel to leaven my native clay. It gets no supplemental water, and there is some Epilobium californicum (syn. Zauschneria californica) to provide shade for the bulbs, food for the hummingbirds, and something to look at for me in the summer when the bulbs are dormant. It could conceivably be sucking quite a lot of the winter water out of the soil. There are a few more photos of the plant here: http://flickr.com/search/?q=bulbinella&w=48600109944%40N01 > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:49:31 -0800 > From: Mary Sue Ittner > Subject: Re: [pbs] Bulbinella latifolia ssp. doleritica, Lilium > bolanderi update > ... > How are you growing it? > Share your conditions. From maxwithers@gmail.com Mon Mar 3 13:24:13 2008 Message-Id: <47CC4247.9000002@gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: Lilium bolanderi update Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 10:24:07 -0800 Bill, I don't have much to add beyond Ken Hixson's usefully specific information on temp. requirements for the western American lilies. I may have gotten lucky with this as well, as we've had an unusually high accumulation of chill hours this year (831 hrs. to date; avg. appears to be 400-500). Nov.-Feb. diurnal temp. variation averaged 19 degrees F. I don't know how well you can approximate that in Victoria. Our "first storm" was October 10, second storm Nov. 10. I imagine that many but not all wild populations are under snow cover for most of the winter. One thing I forgot to mention: L. bolanderi appeared within a few days of some L. pardalinum that I also stratified in vain last spring, and put out for the first storm. Good Luck! > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 11:31:06 +1100 > From: "Bill Richardson" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Lilium bolanderi update > > ... > I have just obtained seed of this species here in Oz. and your information > will be invaluable in helping me determine how to germination here and when. > Any further info would be considered greatfully. > regards, > Bill Richardson > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Mar 3 16:44:15 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: What's going on here? Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:08:06 -0600 Dear friends, I am fairly alert to plant names, but not an avid grower of tropical bulbs. Still I don't expect quite so many 'surprises' when reading a wholesale bulb catalog. Is there a big market for any of these bulbs? I think they are all Amaryllids, but a brief goggling didn't have a lot to show for them and most are not on the PBS wiki either. Gilliesia gramiea Hannonia hesperidium Miersia chilensis Stenomesson pearcei Vagaria ollivieri OK I admit near total ignorance, but what is going on here? Any guesses? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From djordan68@comcast.net Mon Mar 3 14:32:07 2008 Message-Id: <31AB311D42C44DAAB8C0AA53D557DA64@debbiePC> From: "Deborah Jordan" Subject: Begonia boliviensis and state of scilla Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:29:01 -0600 Thanks Ken-- I had taken some of the seeds 2/21/08 and done more or less what you suggested with the exception of the lights. I just put them in the windowsill because I do all of my other bulb seeds outside; so don't use my lights much anymore. I did think it would be warm enough to put them outside in brighter conditions once they germinated and started growing. And since you say they will bloom quickly from seed, I'll just go ahead and start those I saved back now. I can't tell what part of the country you are in from your post or email provider, but its nice to know someone else is also growing these this season. Thank you again for your reply! As far as the state of scilla goes--that one really is all over the map. Scilla peruviana does fine down here and is blooming now. I keep it fairly dry in the summer. The one I'm finding frustrating from the research end, not the growing end, is one that was given to me last fall under the name of Scilla amethystina. The bulbs looked identical to the Hyacinthoides italica in the WIKI. I don't have the greatest reference books for Southern European bulbs either--but I'm leaning towards this ID. It would certainly help if it would grace me with some blooms soon. The books I have by Leeds, Bryan, Ruksans; as well as the WIKI, indicate it should bloom in early spring and seem to best describe the foliage. Ogden has it all over the map in his book with about 5 other names and blooming in early summer which I intuitively feel cannot be right for this far in the deep south. I know this is not a rare plant, maybe not grown much anymore, but certainly not rare. Not sure why its been so frustrating to pin down. Debbie Houston, Texas; cold front just blowing in blooming here now: Scilla peruviana, Freesia alba, F leichtlinii, F fucata, F refracta, F occidentalis From jegrace@rose.net Mon Mar 3 14:31:30 2008 Message-Id: <1204572678_10540@mail.rose.net> From: "jegrace" Subject: Pacific Bulb Society 2008 Seed Clearence Sale Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:30:35 -0500 Hi, Dell I must have missed the email, just found it. Thanks! Erin Grace, 112 Junius Street, Thomasville, GA 31792 1 "Giant rain lily" 1 pkt 2 Albuca nelsonii 1 pkt 3 Albuca spiralis 1 pkt 9 Chasmanthe bicolor 1 pkt 12 Cyrtanthus brachyscyphus 1 pkt 13 Cyrtanthus contractius 1 pkt 19 Gladiolus carneus 1 pkt 20 Gladiolus grandiflorus 1 pkt 21 Gladiolus huttonii 1 pkt 22 Habranthus martinezi 1 pkt 29 Moraea huttonii 1 pkt 30 Moraea ochroleuca 1 pkt 31 Neopatersonia uitenhagensis 1 pkt 32 Ornithogalum reverchoni 1 pkt 33 Polyxena longituba 1 pkt 34 Rhodophiala granatiflora 1 pkt 38 Sparaxis grandiflora v grandiflora 1 pkt 39 Tigridia pavonia, red 1 pkt 40 Zephyranthes primulina 1 pkt 143 Anthericum sp. 1 pkt 145 Bulbine glauca? 2 pkts 147 Calydorea nuda 2 pkts 148 Colchicum autumnale 2 pkts 149 Cypella coelestis-1 pkt 150 Ferraria crispa- 1 pkt 151 Freesia laxa 3 pkts 152 Gladiolus geardii 2 pkts 153 Herbertia amatorum 1 pkt 154 Herbertia pulchella 1 pkt 157 Lachenalia contaminata 1 pkt 160 Moraea polystachya 1 pkt 161 Moraea spathulata 1 pkt 162 Pancratium maritimum 1 pkt 164 Romulea bulbicodium- 2 pkts 165 Romulea hirta-2 pkts 166 Sisyrinchium macrocarpum 2 pkts 167 Tricyrtis hirta 1 pkt 169 Urginea maritima 1 pkt 170 Veltheimia, mixed colors 3 pkts From jegrace@rose.net Mon Mar 3 14:33:42 2008 Message-Id: <1204572819_10594@mail.rose.net> From: "jegrace" Subject: How EMBARRASSING! Pacific Bulb Society 2008 Seed Clearence Sale Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:32:56 -0500 Oh I am so sorry! After all my shopping I hit the button and forgot to change the 'send to' address My apologies to the group. That was supposed to go to Dell only. I think my head cold is getting the best of me! Erin Grace, Thomasville, Georgia, USA From jshields104@insightbb.com Mon Mar 3 16:50:45 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080303164811.027eb018@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Progress of Spring (Not!) Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 16:50:42 -0500 Yesterday it was sunny, temperatures reached over 60°F (ca. 15°C) here, and I took a look at the woodland garden. The only Trillium up was the same as a few weeks ago: One little patch of T. nivale was up, but still with no color showing. Galanthus elwesii is up and showing white buds. One batch of G. nivalis, f. atkisii, is also up and showing white buds. This is actually progress. Other Galanthus are mostly not up, certainly not showing any white color. A couple of Corydalis species were up, but just barely. No sign of any of the C. solida yet. A few patches of Colchicum have foliage up a couple of inches. The leaves are almost purple, probably from the cold. One Cyclamen is also up, in a spot I'm pretty sure I did not plant any Cyclamen in; so it must have been transplanted by a squirrel. They seem to do that here. Nothing else in sight for the spring, but I uncovered a seed head of Arisaema heterophyllum full of bright red fruits. Somehow, I never spotted that last autumn. Brrrrr! Temperatures are back down to 41°F (5°C), its raining off and on, there are flash flood warnings, and they are predicting freezing rain overnight. Great! Jim Shields in miserable central Indiana (USA) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From auchgourishbotgard@falsyde.sol.co.uk Mon Mar 3 17:03:20 2008 Message-Id: <019501c87d7a$4475ebc0$0501a8c0@homepc> From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" Subject: Lilium bolanderi Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 22:02:26 -0000 I hope the following might be of some interests in relation to this North America lily species. Freshly wild collected seeds arrived here late autumn, early winter two years ago, and were sown immediately into a proprietary John Innes Seed Compost with added peat in the top layer and were then covered lightly with a fine grit and left to over winter outside with no protection. From time to time the pots filled up with snow or were rained on lightly to heavily; that particular winter saw temperatures go as low as -22 C, can't remember how to convert that to Fahrenheit as it being so long since we converted here in Scotland to Centigrade, anyway - 22C is NOT warm but as all research is published in Metric and centigrade we were glad to see the back of F. Come the spring, here that is early May up they popped and then were shifted into our big polytunnel with the other lilies from that autumn's sowing and have never looked back. Given a little diluted seaweed liquid fertiliser from time to time and with luck they will flower this year around June maybe. During this period they had to deal with - 20 C on 18th December and several hard frosts subsequently but none that low... YET as winter isn't finished with us by a long margin. For a reference point on climate, it seems that we are in a very rough sense around the USDA Zone 6 equivalent but it doesn't really compare accurately as apart from everything else we are at nearly 58 degrees north, same as Churchill in central Hudson's Bay, minus the Polar Bears of course , we are clean out of polar bears now. It might interest to the PBS that I am running germination trials on Lily seed this year, and next year. Currently I have 55 species and subspecies of lily in the first trail, roughly half of the known described species, and hopefully most of the remainder will be trialled next year while including 'markers' from this year's species to provide some degree of comparability. Essentially half the species were sown late autumn - early winter and a complete replicate will then be sown this coming April. Essentially I am trying to establish whether [a] any particular species is better sown in the autumn or in the spring; and, [b] I believe that, as with woody plants, monocots will be induced into growth by a heat sum and I am sure knowing what it is will be useful. In the case of trees and shrubs from the temperate and boreal regions it seems the trigger to initiate growth is at 8 degrees Celsius/day times 'X' days of 8 degrees. The follow up to this will be to record, under conditions here, how many years from germination to first flowering, onset of flowering dates, and duration of flowering followed by onset of senescence. If anyone has any advice and suggestions please feel free to put me right. regards, Iain Auchgourish Botanic Garden & Arboretum From johannes-ulrich-urban@t-online.de Mon Mar 3 17:05:37 2008 Message-Id: <1JWImf-1NejY00@fwd32.aul.t-online.de> From: johannes-ulrich-urban@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: Begonia boliviana Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 23:05:21 +0100 Dear Debbie, Begonia boliviana (I think it is called boliviana and not boliviensis) is a very nice plant forming a bushy arching specimen about 2 feet tall and flowering for many months with bright orange-red tubular flowers. I am sure they are visited by humming birds but we do not have that kind of jewels here in Europe..... There is a very good selection available here in Europe which is called 'Bonfire' produced by a japanese seed company, I think Sakata but this may be wrong. If you live in Houston I assume your weather will be very warm not to say hot in summer and I am not sure if B. boliviana will like this as it is a plant of high altutude moist forests in the Andes. For sure it does not like to bake in the sun and is the right plant for a bright northern position. It makes a totally dry dormancy in winter (my plants are pot grown and overwintered dry in their pots until new shoots emerge, kept cold but frost free in my cellar. Well, there may be some residual moisture in the pot.) Tubers kept outside the pot may dry-rot in a strange way. Seed is extremely fine but easy to germinate, sow on the surface not covering it with any compost but cover the pot with glass or cling film or in a closed propagator. Keep it warm and bright but out of direct sunlight. replant as soon as the minuscule seedlings can be handled, there will be some losses. Replant again if they become bigger to avoid crowding. Best are pots with 3-5 adult tubers. These tubers eventually can become enormous and require really large tubs after some years. Seed is easily produced, here I have to hand-pollinate. If happy this plant is very long lived and gets better every year but will also flower first year from seed. The seed of Begonias is very long lived in the fridge (not frozen) Greetings from snowy Germany, Uli From tony@plantdelights.com Mon Mar 3 17:18:00 2008 Message-Id: <47CC791F.4090507@plantdelights.com> From: Tony Avent Subject: What's going on here? Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:18:07 -0500 Jim: My guess is that with the re-organization of the Dutch auction houses, many smaller growers/collectors are simply looking for an outlet for their surplus bulbs. When I was in the Netherlands a few years ago, I was shocked at the unusual types of bulbs grown by specialty growers/collectors that rarely see the commercial catalogs. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent James Waddick wrote: > Dear friends, > I am fairly alert to plant names, but not an avid grower of > tropical bulbs. Still I don't expect quite so many 'surprises' when > reading a wholesale bulb catalog. > > Is there a big market for any of these bulbs? I think they > are all Amaryllids, but a brief goggling didn't have a lot to show > for them and most are not on the PBS wiki either. > > > Gilliesia gramiea > Hannonia hesperidium > Miersia chilensis > Stenomesson pearcei > Vagaria ollivieri > > OK I admit near total ignorance, but what is going on here? > > Any guesses? Best Jim W. > From ron_redding@hotmail.com Mon Mar 3 18:07:03 2008 Message-Id: From: Ronald Redding Subject: US WORSLEYA SHIPMENT Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:06:58 +1000 Hi Everyone: I'm posting details for a US Shipment of Worsleya procera,( Syn: Worsleya rayneri ) from Australian cultivated stock. Anyone interested, please email me privately for details.Kind Regards and Best WishesRon Redding ron_redding@hotmail.com Hervey BayAustralia Join Lavalife for free. What are you waiting for? _________________________________________________________________ New music from the Rogue Traders - listen now! http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=832&referral=hotmailtaglineOct07&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/roguetraders From ixia@dcsi.net.au Mon Mar 3 18:12:24 2008 Message-Id: <001301c87d84$0aa06ce0$0200a8c0@ownerd7bcfa40f> From: "Bill Richardson" Subject: Lilium bolanderi update Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 10:12:16 +1100 Hi Max, thanks for the follow-up information. It will be most useful when it comes to sowing seed. I'll let you know how I go. regards, Bill Richardson Ixiaking Gippsland Victoria, Australia Autumn 6c to 32c at present www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia ixia@dcsi.net.au ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Withers" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 5:24 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Lilium bolanderi update From msittner@mcn.org Mon Mar 3 20:56:52 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080303174023.0139a728@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Begonia boliviensis -spelling Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:52:27 -0800 Hi, Uli suggested that we are calling this by the wrong name so I looked it up in IPNI and Tropicos to see if I needed to change the wiki. The name that Uli said was correct was not found in either place. I never knew there were so many Begonia species. This is what I found: IPNI showed two species with similar names published in 1859. Begoniaceae Begonia boliviensis A.DC. Ann. Sci. Nat., Bot. sér. 4, 11: 122. 1859 Begoniaceae Begonia boiviniana A.DC. Ann. Sci. Nat., Bot. sér. 4, 11: 130. 1859 Both of those were in the same journal and I'm assuming are different species. Tropicos has those two plus: Begonia boiviana DC. Published in: Annales des Sciences Naturelles; Botanique, série 4 11: 130. 1859. {Ann. Sci. Nat., Bot., ser. 4, ; BPH 113.17S4} Since it also had the other spelling that IPNI had for the same reference, one of them is probably wrong unless there are three species. Tropicos lists 6 publications supporting Begonia boliviensis: Published in: Author(s): Bailey, L. H. & E. Z. Bailey Date: 1976 Publication: Hortus Third---A Concise Dictionary of Plants Cultivated in the United States and Canada Author(s): Foster, R. C. Date: 1958 Title: A catalogue of the ferns and flowering plants of Bolivia Publication: Contributions from the Gray Herbarium of Harvard University Author(s): López, A. Date: 1995 Publication: Estudio de Vegetación de las Partes Sud y Sudoeste de las Provincias Mizque y Campero --- Cochabamba Author(s): Saravia, E. F. Date: 1996 Publication: Estudio de la Vegetación de las Partes Altas de las Provincias Campero y Mizque (Cochabamba) Author(s): Serrano, M. & J. Terán Date: 2000 Publication: Identificación de Especies Vegetales en Chuquisaca -- Teoría, Práctica y Resultados Author(s): Zuloaga, F. Date: 1997 Title: Catálogo de las plantas vasculares de la Argentina Publication: Monographs in Systematic Botany from the Missouri Botanical Garden From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Mar 3 21:13:20 2008 Message-Id: <03B12FB6-7C52-4630-A645-0C3F2BCDE2CE@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Begonia boliviana Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 18:13:00 -0800 Containers of Phormium (long narrow coloured leaves) and Begonia Bonfire made a fantastic display all summer and fall on tall poles around the parking lot of my local garden centre. I was surprised, as I always plant my hardy begonias in the shade, like under camellias. The containers are still on their poles, and the Phormiums still look good. I wonder if the begonias will resprout? Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Tue Mar 4 00:33:05 2008 Message-Id: <002101c87db9$31f76de0$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Begonia boliviana Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 05:32:53 -0000 DianaWhitehead wrote: > The containers are still on their poles, and the Phormiums still look > good. I wonder if the begonias ['Bonfire'] will resprout? Begonia boliviensis, in some forms at least, has a reputation for hardiness, so I have experimented with the superb 'Bonfire'. In these conditions though it is a complete failure, so it would be interesting to know if it perennates anywhere else. Its specific epithet commemorates Bolivia; the B. boiviniana unearthed by Mary Sue must refer to one of the three botanists named Boivin, perhaps the bulbously-named Louis Hyacinthe Boivin (1806-1852) who was a near contemporary (until he died) of Alphonse de Candolle (1808-1893) who named it. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Whitehead" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:13 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Begonia boliviana > Containers of Phormium (long narrow coloured leaves) and Begonia > Bonfire made a fantastic display all summer and fall on tall poles > around the parking lot of my local garden centre. I was surprised, as > I always plant my hardy begonias in the shade, like under camellias. > > > Diane Whitehead > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate > mild rainy winters, mild dry summers > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1308 - Release Date: > 03/03/2008 10:01 > > From dejager@bulbargence.com Tue Mar 4 03:17:32 2008 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: What's going on here? Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 09:16:02 +0100 Jim, There is only one catalog with this feature and then when you look at the prices of these species they are not really "wholesale'. They are often coming in very small quantities from private collectors/growers. For information on these species, contact the wholsaler who will go back to the collector. Greetings -- Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence South of France (zone 9 (olive trees) emailto: dejager@bulbargence.com Site www.bulbargence.com Le 3/03/08 20:08, « James Waddick » a écrit : > Dear friends, > I am fairly alert to plant names, but not an avid grower of > tropical bulbs. Still I don't expect quite so many 'surprises' when > reading a wholesale bulb catalog. > Gilliesia graminea > Hannonia hesperidium > Miersia chilensis > Stenomesson pearcei > Vagaria ollivieri From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Mar 4 11:46:00 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: What's going on here? Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:07:02 -0600 >My guess is that with the re-organization of the Dutch auction houses, Dear Tony, Wait. What's this all about? Explain the reorganization of Dutch auction houses.... please. I have had about 6 or 7 off - list responses to this topic - mostly asking for the name of wholesaler. Lots of references to source info on these genera and species. Very kind, thanks. Still not quite sure what is behind this influx of uncommon (and not very commercial) bulbs into a wholesale listing. I do like the fact that it introduces rarities to a wider audience.Even so the full offering of Dutch wholesale lists do not come close to the limited offerings of most US bulb dealers - even those with Dutch partners. Best from Jim W. (back into the deep freeze, but the sunny version these days.) -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From tony@plantdelights.com Tue Mar 4 12:33:49 2008 Message-Id: <47CD8803.9010705@plantdelights.com> From: Tony Avent Subject: What's going on here? Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 12:33:55 -0500 Jim: Perhaps our participants from the Netherlands can offer a better explanation, but many of the Dutch auction houses have closed and the others have been consolidated. It's my understanding that all plants used to have to be run through the auction houses. This is no longer the case. That's about all the details that I remember. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent James Waddick wrote: >> My guess is that with the re-organization of the Dutch auction houses, >> > > > Dear Tony, > Wait. What's this all about? Explain the reorganization of > Dutch auction houses.... please. > > I have had about 6 or 7 off - list responses to this topic - > mostly asking for the name of wholesaler. Lots of references to > source info on these genera and species. Very kind, thanks. > > Still not quite sure what is behind this influx of uncommon > (and not very commercial) bulbs into a wholesale listing. > > I do like the fact that it introduces rarities to a wider > audience.Even so the full offering of Dutch wholesale lists do not > come close to the limited offerings of most US bulb dealers - even > those with Dutch partners. > > > Best from Jim W. (back into the deep freeze, but the sunny > version these days.) > From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Tue Mar 4 13:26:22 2008 Message-Id: <16509156.1204655173963.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: What's going on here?- Dutch flower industry Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 13:26:13 -0500 (EST) many of the Dutch auction houses have closed and the >others have been consolidated. It's my understanding that all plants >used to have to be run through the auction houses. This is no longer >the case. That's about all the details that I remember. The two largest auction houses consolidated recently. FloraHolland and Alsmeer were their names, I think. It's now a 6 billion dollar business. There is a comprehensive discussion of the Dutch flower industry at: http://www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/sector/papers/flrsect/index.htm I found the paper very informative. Best, Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USa Zone 7b-8, I think 70F, rain expected. Several Tritelia germinate, Lachenalia pusilla seed harvested. Planted a Calycanthus raulstonii ‘Hartlage Wine’ outside. From dells@voicenet.com Tue Mar 4 15:04:57 2008 Message-Id: <20080304194330.1D6744C247@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: 2008 seed sale Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 14:31:47 -0500 Dear All, The response to the seed clearance offering has been so enthusiastic that I have decided not to send multiple packets of any one variety to any but the first few requests. Sorry, but I want to spread the wealth around and supplies are running short. Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From paige@hillkeep.ca Tue Mar 4 16:03:17 2008 Message-Id: <01ca01c87e35$8c575800$45b41f45@m6u3j5> From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: What's going on here?- Dutch flower industry Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 12:21:53 -0800 I am a very small participant in the international bulb trade, but in my experience bulbs and plants available only in small quantities do not go through auction houses. Small specialist growers offer their stock directly to wholesalers or even to final customers. The Dutch auctions suit mass merchandise; there would not be 20 hardened bidders vying for a handful of Ostrowskia magnifica tubers or Iris persica bulbs. Selling directly suits small growers better. It also makes it possible for catalogue makers to list uncommon plants with some assurance that they will be available at shipping time. "Some assurance" is not certainty, though. It is fairly common for a wholesaler to list plants on spec, if they have been available in the past, hoping that they will be available again. And it is not unheard-of for a small grower to confirm on spec. Crops fail, fools oversell, shipments are confiscated by ignorant inspectors, or rerouted to the wrong country, or rot in transit, or survive but prove not to be as labelled. There is a lot to be said for growing one's own; I do that, too. Not that I will ever claim that this is a rational business. Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca From ixia@dcsi.net.au Wed Mar 5 01:26:30 2008 Message-Id: <001501c87e89$d3872d50$0200a8c0@ownerd7bcfa40f> From: "Bill Richardson" Subject: Introducing myself Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 17:26:09 +1100 Hi Juliet, I" ve just been browsing through the IBS Bulb image gallery and I found the viridflora Images, worth looking at. Also have a look at the other Ixia images, quite a few species shown here. Ahhh.. such heaven! regards, Bill Richardson Ixiaking Gippsland Victoria, Australia Autumn 6c to 32c at present www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia ixia@dcsi.net.au ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juliet Leigh" To: Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 6:23 PM Subject: [pbs] Introducing myself > Hi there, my name is Juliet and I live ,semi-retired, in a small eastern > coastal village north of Auckland, New Zealand. I love most things with > roots,but at present my focus is on ixia, as our soil is a very light > sandy-loam and I would like to propogate viridiflora as they are very > difficult to obtain here in NZ. I have managed to get some seeds (at > cost!) and would appreciate any hints successful growers can give me that > will steer away from problems. Cheers! > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From ixia@dcsi.net.au Wed Mar 5 01:29:23 2008 Message-Id: <002201c87e8a$3b6ac9e0$0200a8c0@ownerd7bcfa40f> From: "Bill Richardson" Subject: IBS link for Ixia Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 17:29:09 +1100 Juliet, here is the link to IBS for you : http://www.bulbsociety.org/GALLERY_OF_THE_WORLDS_BULBS/GRAPHICS/Ixia/Ixia_viridiflora/Ixiaviridiflora.html regards, Bill Richardson Ixiaking Gippsland Victoria, Australia Autumn 6c to 32c at present www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia ixia@dcsi.net.au ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juliet Leigh" To: Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 6:23 PM Subject: [pbs] Introducing myself From julietleigh@ihug.co.nz Wed Mar 5 03:50:21 2008 Message-Id: <001101c87e9d$e47139d0$4201a8c0@JulietsLaptop> From: "Juliet Leigh" Subject: IBS link for Ixia Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 21:49:58 +1300 Bill, Thanks! What a neat website you have! Stunning pics and great info. Motivating indeed. Juliet. PS Like your hat too! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Richardson" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:29 PM Subject: [pbs] IBS link for Ixia > Juliet, > here is the link to IBS for you : > http://www.bulbsociety.org/GALLERY_OF_THE_WORLDS_BULBS/GRAPHICS/Ixia/Ixia_viridiflora/Ixiaviridiflora.html > > regards, > Bill Richardson > Ixiaking > Gippsland > Victoria, Australia > Autumn 6c to 32c at present > www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia > ixia@dcsi.net.au > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Juliet Leigh" > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 6:23 PM > Subject: [pbs] Introducing myself > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From dejager@bulbargence.com Wed Mar 5 10:46:48 2008 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: What's going on here?- Dutch flower industry Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:39:04 +0100 Dear All, I agree with Paige, that if you want to sure to get what you ordered, buy it straigh from the grower. The very rare species offered by wholesalers are most of the time to attract interest. When ordering the particular item most of the time, it has not yet arrived or is sold out. Concerning the fusion of the flower auctions in the Netherlands this has no direct impact of on the bulb trade. The 2 or 3 bulbtrading houses seem to have no intention of joining together, both have abandoned the auction system and are now mainly selling and buying through internet. Many growers have their own website, thus cutting out very often the middlemen. Kind regards -- Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence South of France (zone 9 (olive trees) emailto: dejager@bulbargence.com Site www.bulbargence.com Le 4/03/08 21:21, « Pacific Rim » a écrit : >It is fairly common for a > wholesaler to list plants on spec, if they have been available in the past, > hoping that they will be available again. And it is > not unheard-of for a small grower to confirm on spec. Crops fail, fools > oversell, shipments are confiscated by ignorant inspectors, or rerouted to > the wrong country, or rot in transit, or survive but prove not to be as > labelled. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Mar 5 13:14:56 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080305095159.016b2638@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Bulbs at the WWSW Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 10:13:35 -0800 Last weekend the Western Winter Study Weekend was held in Vancouver, BC. These study weekends, eastern and western, are an annual function of NARGS, but the western weekends are hosted on a rotating basis by the currently independent rock garden societies of British Columbia as well as by NARGS chapters. Some of the speakers (usually 8 to 10 during the weekend) always focus on bulbs. The meetings are open to non-members of the sponsoring societies at a small additional fee. The next one will be held in Portland, Oregon, March 13-15, 2009 and will include two talks by Ian Young, a well-known bulb grower from Scotland, and one by John Lonsdale of Pennsylvania, who a notable member of this discussion group. There will also be a really big plant sale. I encourage PBS members to consider attending; write me privately for a detailed description. The Vancouver meeting's bulb talks included two by Jim Almond from England, who grows many kinds of bulbs but most notably Juno irises, and two by Henrik Zetterlund of the Gothenburg Botanic Garden, who also concentrates on geophytes to some degree. Perhaps because Almond grows many plants for competitive showing, the techniques he discussed are more exacting than many of us would need to apply to our Junos that we grow just for our own enjoyment. One segment of his talk included a group of plants (e.g., I. magnifica, I. vicaria) that he regards as suitable for the open garden, and another group that he considers must be grown under glass. The difference between UK and Northwest America conditions was brought home to me forcibly this morning, when I finally had time to walk around my rock garden and found that a single division of Iris 'Sindpers', planted out on a berm two years ago, had increased to a spreading clump of 5 crowns and was in full bloom after a wetter and colder than average winter. This was one of Almond's "not for the garden" plants. This encourages me to test more Junos in the open. The most interesting (to me, anyway) information I took from Henrik Zetterlund's talks was his discussion of the new bulb house at Gothenburg. It's a large metal-supported structure with a tempered glass roof and no sides. Since temperatures there can dip to minus 20 C (minus 4 F), I asked him if they would temporarily enclose the sides during cold periods, and he said they would not, but he would probably cover the plants with something like microfoam sheets. This launched me on plans for the bulb-and-alpine house I'll install on my newly purchased "city" (actually woodsy suburb) property before I remove there in 4 or 5 years. An open-sided structure should be even more effective in one of Portland's banana belts, and will eliminate the expense and fuss of vents. By eliminating the expense of side covering, it'll be easier to afford glass on the roof, which I think is necessary because the neighborhood is so full of big trees, and getting tree pollen off glass is much easier than getting it off other types of greenhouse glazing. The BC groups always put on a nice plant exhibit, and this one of course had early bulbs. Most were commonly grown sorts, but there were a lot of snowdrops, including some seldom seen in North America. I'm not in the ranks of card-carrying galanthophiles, but I now covet 'Primrose Warburg' and some variety with large green zones on the outer tepals. I'll try to mention this desire in the "barter wanted" section of my summer surplus list. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From dejager@bulbargence.com Wed Mar 5 13:43:36 2008 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Kniphofia Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:43:04 +0100 Dear members, Thanks to much patience and help of Mary Sue I have at last added some pîctures to the Kniphofia page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Kniphofia New to this page is a description and some images of the winter flowering K. rooperii. Thanks to the fairly mild winter the flowering has been splendid. It started early January and is just finishing now. Kind greetings Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence 30300 FOURQUES Tél 0466 016 519 emailto: dejager@bulbargence.com Site www.bulbargence.com GPS Mas: 43.7.12.18 4.53.70.1 From ron_redding@hotmail.com Wed Mar 5 16:51:52 2008 Message-Id: From: Ronald Redding Subject: Worsleya Update Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 07:50:56 +1000 Hi All I believe I have now contacted everyone that has expressed interest in the worsleya being sent to the US from Australia. I have contacted everyone that has ordered a plant requesting that you confirm your order and your delivery address. If you have not received an email from me requesting this information then I do not have your order. Please contact me privately at this email address ron_redding@hotmail.com if you would like to order or if you have not been contacted about your order.Kind Regards and Best WishesRon ReddingHervey BayAustralia _________________________________________________________________ New music from the Rogue Traders - listen now! http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=832&referral=hotmailtaglineOct07&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/roguetraders From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Mar 5 17:10:13 2008 Message-Id: <28933FB8-F197-49E1-965A-92116086304A@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Colchicum germination Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 14:09:56 -0800 I received various Colchicum seeds from the Alpine Garden Society 1999 exchange, and sowed them with a spoonful of soilless mix into small ziplock bags as soon as they arrived, in February 2000. They have been kept in an unheated greenhouse that never freezes, and never gets very hot. C pusillum germinated in September 2002 - 2 years 7 months C. 'Lilac Wonder' and C. corsicum germinated in February 2004 - 4 years Today, 1 seed of C. autumnale MESE 302 (from an AGS expedition to Greece in 1999) germinated - 8 years 1 month There are still 12 seeds not yet germinated. The final species, bornmuelleri, has not germinated yet. Its 7 seeds are still sound. When the autumnale finally blooms, it will probably look exactly like the ones sold in bulb bins every fall. Ah well. It will have a story to make it special. I Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From c-mueller@tamu.edu Wed Mar 5 18:02:28 2008 Message-Id: <47CED1A7.E5F2.008A.0@ag.tamu.edu> From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: Worsleya Update Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:58:53 -0600 Dear Ron, Could you let me know what size the Worslea bulb will be in diameter? And will it come through the post with leaves on it? -Cynthia Mueller >>> Ronald Redding 3/5/2008 3:50 PM >>> Hi All I believe I have now contacted everyone that has expressed interest in the worsleya being sent to the US from Australia. I have contacted everyone that has ordered a plant requesting that you confirm your order and your delivery address. If you have not received an email from me requesting this information then I do not have your order. Please contact me privately at this email address ron_redding@hotmail.com if you would like to order or if you have not been contacted about your order.Kind Regards and Best WishesRon ReddingHervey BayAustralia _________________________________________________________________ New music from the Rogue Traders - listen now! http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=832&referral=hotmailtaglineOct07&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/roguetraders _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Wed Mar 5 19:39:19 2008 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: Colchicum germination Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 17:39:12 -0700 Aah, the patience of a gardener. Does it 'normally' take that long for germination? If yes, I may rethink that one on my 'want to start from seed' list. Linda Okotoks, AB Canada Zone 3 Spring is just starting, I saw a grasshopper today. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Mar 5 20:09:10 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080305170823.016b7b80@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Colchicum germination Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 17:09:58 -0800 Diane Whitehead's experience with delayed germination of Colchicum is like mine. However, I've also found that during a given year, most germination in this genus takes place almost simultaneously, no matter how many years old the seed pots are. Apparently there is some environmental trigger that affects many species similarly. Jane McGary From debbiett@comcast.net Wed Mar 5 21:26:51 2008 Message-Id: From: "Debbie TT" Subject: Colchicum germination Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 18:26:38 -0800 Diane, Now there's dedication! For me, I usually give up after a few years, mix the soil into some containers to plant in. That's when they germinate. I have a container full of Iris that I am trying to remember which batch I tossed into it. When they flower, hopefully then I can identify them. Debbie ************************************************************************ Debbie TT Web page - Rainy Side Gardeners - rainyside.com Garden blog - Muck About - rainysidegardeners.typepad.com ************************************************************************ -------------------------------------------------- From: "Diane Whitehead" Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 2:09 PM To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Subject: [pbs] Colchicum germination > I received various Colchicum seeds from the Alpine Garden Society 1999 > exchange, and sowed them with a spoonful of soilless mix into small > ziplock bags as soon as they arrived, in February 2000. They have been > kept in an unheated greenhouse that never freezes, and never gets very > hot. > > C pusillum germinated in September 2002 - 2 years 7 months > > C. 'Lilac Wonder' and C. corsicum germinated in February 2004 - 4 years > > Today, 1 seed of C. autumnale MESE 302 (from an AGS expedition to > Greece in 1999) germinated - 8 years 1 month > There are still 12 seeds not yet germinated. > > The final species, bornmuelleri, has not germinated yet. Its 7 seeds > are still sound. > > When the autumnale finally blooms, it will probably look exactly like > the ones sold in bulb bins every fall. Ah well. It will have a story > to make it special. > > Diane Whitehead From jegrace@rose.net Wed Mar 5 21:33:47 2008 Message-Id: <1204770825_30692@mail1.rose.net> From: "jegrace" Subject: Colchicum germination Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 21:33:00 -0500 I am even less patient.....I plant the seeds and wait until real estate gets too dear, if they haven't performed I move them. There are about 30 pots sitting in the plant graveyard, most still with tags. One without a tag just germinated so it will be quite the surprise when I figure out what is in it Erin Grace, Thomasville, Georgia USA USDA Hardiness zone 8b, AHS heat zone9 From miller7398@comcast.net Wed Mar 5 21:34:42 2008 Message-Id: <005401c87f32$a08a9c30$3f39734c@tapa965> From: "Joyce Miller" Subject: Colchicum germination Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 18:34:38 -0800 Interesting thread. I sowed two species of Colchicum in early winter and I have one germination so far. I admire Diane's patience. Best, Joyce Miller, Gresham, Oregon, USA From hornig@earthlink.net Wed Mar 5 22:08:57 2008 Message-Id: <569B3520F46E4D92931D229ECB24365A@ellenPC> From: "Ellen Hornig" Subject: My travelog - botanizing in the Eastern Cape and Lesotho Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 22:14:22 -0500 Hello, all - this is to announce that I've posted, on my website, logs of my recent botanizing expedition in the Eastern Cape and Lesotho, with lots of photos linked to the text. This was a 2+-week trip I took with Cameron McMaster (African Bulbs), John Manning (Kirstenbosch), and Dawie Human (Lifestyle Seeds) . Great literature it is not, but I like to think some of the photos are pretty good, and it should be fun for the botanically-inclined armchair adventurers. Just go to my website, www.senecahillperennials.com, and scroll to the lower part of the menu on the left of the page. Read the Introduction first to get an idea of the route we took. I'll be posting this notice to a couple of other lists - apologies in advance to those who get it more than once. Ellen Ellen Hornig Seneca Hill Perennials 3712 County Route 57 Oswego NY 13126 USA www.senecahillperennials.com _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From tversted@email.dk Thu Mar 6 14:00:40 2008 Message-Id: <035001c87fbb$cf9b9130$c400a8c0@PC202395843122> From: "Martin Tversted" Subject: kniphofia Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 19:56:39 +0100 Some pictures can also be seen on my website: http://www.northern-nursery.dk/kniphofia.htm Martin Tversted From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Mar 6 23:02:21 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Colchicum germination Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 20:02:04 -0800 Jane, I have just read your comment again and understand it differently the second time. I assumed you meant that when seeds of a certain Colchicum species germinate, they all do. But now, I think you meant: as a result of some unknown environmental trigger, many different Colchicum species germinate, no matter how many years they've been buried in their seedpots. If the precipitating factors occur this year, then species A may germinate in only two years, but if the constellation of events don't occur for another ten years, then maybe species A might take 12 years to germinate this time, but not every time. Am I right in my second interpretation? Diane Whitehead Jane McGary wrote: > I've also found that during a given year, most germination > in this genus takes place almost simultaneously, no matter how many > years > old the seed pots are. Apparently there is some environmental > trigger that > affects many species similarly. > From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Thu Mar 6 23:28:32 2008 Message-Id: <6eq1ke$5kir18@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out4.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: Colchicum germination Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:27:12 +1100 > >But now, I think you meant: as a result of some unknown environmental >trigger, many different Colchicum species germinate, no matter how >many years they've been buried in their seedpots. Diane, I find this with Trillium germination...... last year I had seed sown 2, 3, and 4 years before all germinate, or at least in sufficient numbers to notice that there were lots of seedlings simultaneously in lots of pots. I have found that some Colchicum (rhodopaeum for example) have germinated easily (or conditions were just right) while others just sit and wait. Cheers. Paul T. Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Galanthus, Irises, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! From Ger.Stickroth@t-online.de Fri Mar 7 05:13:38 2008 Message-Id: <1JXZEc-0jS1Ca0@fwd31.aul.t-online.de> From: Ger.Stickroth@t-online.de (Gerhard Stickroth) Subject: Eranthis stellate Date: 07 Mar 2008 09:51 GMT Greetings, just received some seed of Eranthis stellate from Siberia. Does anyone have experience in sowing this one. Any help/experience is appreciated. Gerhard Stickroth, Z6/7, Bavaria, Germany From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Mar 7 11:38:07 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080307083351.016ffd90@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Colchicum germination Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 08:35:19 -0800 Diane wrote, >I have just read your comment again and understand it differently the >second time. >I assumed you meant that when seeds of a certain Colchicum species >germinate, they all do. >But now, I think you meant: as a result of some unknown environmental >trigger, many different Colchicum species germinate, no matter how >many years they've been buried in their seedpots. Yes, that is what I meant. I sometimes see COlchicum species planted in three or four consecutive years producing a few seedlings within the space of a week or two in the same year. Jane McGary From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Mar 7 11:38:08 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080307083556.0171f568@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Eranthis stellata Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 08:43:30 -0800 Gerhard asked, >just received some seed of Eranthis stellate from Siberia. Does anyone >have experience in sowing this one. Any help/experience is appreciated. I haven't grown this species, but I've grown other Eranthis species from stored seed, and also Adonis, another member of the Ranunculaceae that is not believed to stay viable (able to germinate) in storage. I find that one doesn't get very good germination, but with these difficult-to-obtain plants, even a single plant is welcome and can usually produce seeds that can be sown fresh. My experience is that seeds sown in late winter have germinated the following midwinter after being left in outdoor temperatures and never allowed to dry out after sowing. Ranunculus and Anemone are related genera with geophytic members and similar problems, but I've grown Ranunculus abnormis from seed. I find that Anemone species that produce seeds coated in woolly "fuzz" germinate well after storage, but those with smooth seeds generally do not. This may account for the frequent appearance of A. multifida, a woolly-seeded species, in exchange seed lists under far more tempting names! Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From totototo@telus.net Fri Mar 7 13:52:10 2008 Message-Id: <20080307185205.7941PHVG0Q@priv-edtnaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Pink Anemone Apennina Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 10:53:15 -0800 I have a very nice form of Anemone apennina with clear pink flowers and beet-red foliage when young. This plant came to me from the Potterton & Martin nursery in England (now Potterton's) about 15 years ago as 'Alba'. 'Alba' is, however, universally described as white with a blue flush on the outside of the petals, including that currently offered by Potterton's. I do not have any record of the catalogue description for the plant I received, hence do not know if they described it as pink or as white with blue reverse. A web search, including the current Potterton's website, has revealed no pink form of Anemone apennina. It's definitely not a form of Anemone blanda masquerading as A. apennina. It's a very good grower, having survived all these years in the duff under an Alberta blue spruce and multiplied reasonably well, though it has never flowered profusely. Presumably its growing conditions are not conducive to flowering. Does this excellent little anemone have a cultivar name? Does anyone else grow it? Does anyone know its history? PS: checking my library, I find that Patrick Synge says in "Collins Guide to Bulbs" that pink forms are known of Anemone apennina. Roy Genders refers to a mauve-pink form, 'purpurea', but mine is a clear pink with no trace of mauve to it. Brian Mathew in both "Dwarf Bulbs" and "The Smaller Bulbs" refers to "pinkish" forms; there's no -ish about mine. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@telus.net Fri Mar 7 13:52:47 2008 Message-Id: <20080307185242.09KNJ2HCMF@priv-edmwaa05.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Eranthis pinnatifida Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 10:53:52 -0800 Has anyone succeeded with Eranthis pinnatifida? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From john@johnlonsdale.net Fri Mar 7 15:09:59 2008 Message-Id: <009701c8808e$e1b424d0$6801a8c0@XPS400> From: "John T Lonsdale" Subject: Eranthis pinnatifida Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:07:33 -0500 "Has anyone succeeded with Eranthis pinnatifida?" Indeed, yes. A few plants are flowering now in the garden; it has been here for about 9 years and I've also raised seedlings from fresh seed to flowering size in about 4 years. They are tricky - keeping them through their first dormancy is the problem, not too dry but not too wet. Eranthis stellata is also flowering at the moment, that also presents the same problems from seed but I do have a few 3 year-old seedlings. They are both beautiful. Last year's seed collections were scratched into the soil around the parents in the hope that they would do OK there. The only Eranthis I've germinated from stored 'old' seed is E. longistipitata - which is supposed to grow in more arid areas anyway so might be expected to have longer-lived seeds. Best, John John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From dkramb@badbear.com Fri Mar 7 15:38:09 2008 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20080307151608.03b3b0b8@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Ipomoea pandurata (yet again) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:36:58 -0500 I had success with my new technique and 2 out of 9 seeds germinated. This slightly exceeds my previous success rate of 0% for the past 2 years. LOL. I was surprised to see them both germinate as follows: http://www.badbear.com/P3070001.JPG http://www.badbear.com/P3070003.JPG Is this normal behavior? The seed shell hasn't sloughed off yet, so I don't know how many leaves are on each sprout. I'm guessing two each? Are the seeds "twins"? I can't find anything on-line about it. This seems odd (interesting) enough that it should be mentioned somewhere. Dennis in Frozen (about to get snowed under) Ohio From john@johnlonsdale.net Fri Mar 7 15:47:16 2008 Message-Id: <009d01c88094$681dfcd0$6801a8c0@XPS400> From: "John T Lonsdale" Subject: Germinating 'difficult' Ranunculaceae Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:47:06 -0500 I just had a look in the greenhouse and found seedlings of Adonis cyllenea - sown in 2004! Best, J. John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From dells@voicenet.com Fri Mar 7 15:52:23 2008 Message-Id: <20080307205214.7F7054C011@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 166 Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 15:51:49 -0500 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 166" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES MAY NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Mark Mazer: 1. Bulbs of Drimiopsis maculata 2. Tubers of Ceropegia woodii var variegata 3. Bulbs of Ledebouria pauciflora Thank you, Mark !! From PBS: 4. Dierama dracomontanum, "Drakensberg Harebell", to 0.8m, linear lvs, pendulous bell-shaped rose pink to red fl borne on nodding stalks Su. Sow Sp. Zone 7. 5. Dierama reynoldsii, 1.5m, beautiful pendulous wine-red fl with white bracts Su. Sow Sp. Zone 7. 6. Dietes iridioides, 0.6m, evergreen, big white fl with blue styles Sp-Au, shade. Sow Sp. Zone 9. 7. Gladiolus gueinzii, 50cm, thick fleshy lvs, small pink/mauve/purplish fl marked with red Su, dunes & sandy beaches, rain all yr. Sow Au/Sp. 8. Gladiolus marlothii, To 1m, very beautiful faintly scented minutely speckled mauve fl Sp, dry, rarely seen. Sow Au. 9. Gladiolus ochroleucus, 45-75cm, often evergreen, Su-growing, white/cream/yellow/pink fl Su-Au. Sow Sp. Zone 7. 10. Gladiolus oppositiflorus ssp salmoneus, 0.8-1.5m, Su-growing, very beautiful large salmon-pink fl Su-Au, cliff dweller. Sow Sp. Zone 6. 11. Gladiolus venosomaculatus, To 1m, Su-growing, linear lvs, pink petals speckled with maroon. Sow Sp. Zone 10. 12. Lapeirousia sandersonii, 2 narrow linear long leaves, Su-growing, numerous mauve fl in a much-branched inflorescence Su. Sow Sp. Zone 8. 13. Littonia modesta, 1m, Su-growing, decid, pendulous bell-shaped yellow or orange fl Su, sun or s/shade. Sow Sp. Zone 8. 14. Moraea alticola, To 1m, Su-growing, solitary leaves, large pale yellow fl with darker yellow nectar guides Sp-Au, wet/water. Sow Sp. Zone 6. 15. Ornithogalum maculatum, 8-50cm, orange or yellow fl, outer petals with dark tips Sp. Sow Au. Seeds of a dark orange form available. 16. Ornithogalum pulchrum, Robust handsome plant, Su growing, lvs spotty at base, 1m fl spike with green and white fl, very arid area. Sow Sp. Zone 10. 17. Watsonia angusta, 1-2m, Wi/Su rain, scarlet fl Su, copious nectar, damp areas. Sow Sp/Au. Zone 8. 18. Watsonia strubeniae, 0.6-1m, Su growing, 4-5 lvs with heavily thickened margins, long spikes of small delicate pale pink fl Su-Au, grassland. Sow Sp. Zone 8. 19. Xerophyta retinervis, "Black-stick lily", to 1.8m, robust rough black stems, grasslike leaves, many deep to pale mauve/white scented fl Sp. Sow Sp. Zone 8. 20. Zantedeschia albomaculata, 'Helen O'Connor,' Attractive spotted lvs, coral pink fl. Sow Sp. Zone 8. Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From alanidae@gmail.com Fri Mar 7 15:53:44 2008 Message-Id: From: "Alani Davis" Subject: Ipomoea pandurata (yet again) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 15:53:37 -0500 Hey Dennis I have grow a number of Ipomea with most of them being the native species. I. pandurata is one of my most favorites and is like a "native" moon flower. I have seen "twin" embryo occurrences happen before with Ipomea as well as other plants, but never commonly and it is certainly not typical for I. pandurata which is usually single. I am not sure I have seen this with I. pandurata itself, but I know I had some I. trichocarpa and I. macrorhiza were there were several twins in a batch of seedlings like yours. Because of the root system of this species it would be curious to see how they develop. Alani Davis Tallahassee, Florida 2.34" inches of rain this morning and hoping it won't drop below freezing with this front From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Fri Mar 7 16:07:44 2008 Message-Id: <13062550.746531204924058492.JavaMail.www@wwinf2236> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Eranthis pinnatifida Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 22:07:38 +0100 (CET) Hello, yes it grows very easily here but just is a martyr to slugs.Good humusy soil in part shade does it perfectly.I have sadly lost my plants after a few years due to slugs... > Message du 07/03/08 19:53 > De : totototo@telus.net > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] Eranthis pinnatifida > > Has anyone succeeded with Eranthis pinnatifida? > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate > > on beautiful Vancouver Island > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From zigur@hotmail.com Fri Mar 7 16:12:05 2008 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: Ipomoea pandurata (yet again) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 13:11:53 -0800 Are you sure what you are seeing is not two long-petioled cotyledons, with the growing point remaining below-ground? Should be able to tell in a few days' time. T> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 15:36:58 -0500> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> From: dkramb@badbear.com> Subject: [pbs] Ipomoea pandurata (yet again)> > I had success with my new technique and 2 out of 9 seeds > germinated. This slightly exceeds my previous success rate of 0% for > the past 2 years. LOL.> > I was surprised to see them both germinate as follows:> http://www.badbear.com/P3070001.JPG> http://www.badbear.com/P3070003.JPG> > Is this normal behavior? The seed shell hasn't sloughed off yet, so > I don't know how many leaves are on each sprout. I'm guessing two > each? Are the seeds "twins"?> > I can't find anything on-line about it. This seems odd (interesting) > enough that it should be mentioned somewhere.> > Dennis in Frozen (about to get snowed under) Ohio> > _______________________________________________> pbs mailing list> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Mar 7 16:36:18 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Germinating 'difficult' Ranunculaceae Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 13:18:47 -0800 Me too! Though my A. cyllenea seeds from Dr. Pilous were sown in January 2005. I also had seeds of Ranunculus cortusifolia germinate this week. It was a packet of seeds I discovered when I cleaned house for Christmas so I'm not sure how old they were. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers John T Lonsdale wrote: > I just had a look in the greenhouse and found seedlings of Adonis > cyllenea - > sown in 2004! > From msittner@mcn.org Fri Mar 7 23:39:20 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080307201820.02e4b458@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions- Narcissus, Romulea, Trillium, Freesia Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 20:35:02 -0800 Added to the wiki in the last 7 days: More Narcissus miniatures from Jay Yourch now in bloom: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MiniatureNarcissus#Elka http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MiniatureNarcissus#Snipe Romulea kamisensis blooming for the first time for me from seed. This is an attractive species from Namaqualand, but more restrained in size that some of the other amazing ones in bloom at the moment: Romulea monadelpha, Romulea sabulosa, Romulea diversiformis, Romulea kombergensis, Romulea subfistulosa, Romulea atrandra http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanRomuleasTwo#kamisensis This is the first year I have Romulea subfistulosa in bloom and I'm really excited about it. I've been spreading some of my Romulea seed about in a grass/weed area between some beds that isn't watered in summer and so far the only one to bloom and return in subsequent years is Romulea flava, but I'm going to keep trying. Nicely fragrant and blooming for awhile is Freesia fergusoniae. I added another picture of it to the wiki. The color of the flowers seems a paler yellow this year and I'm not sure why. I save seed and started some more so it could be a hybrid, although I've notice that some of the bulbs I grow don't look the same when they flower in subsequent years. My weedy Freesia alba is starting to bloom around my garden and it along with some Hyacinth hybrids that bloom well for me every year are making it smell really nice to be wandering around the garden at the moment. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Freesia Finally the local form of Trillium ovatum sometimes has dark spots on the leaves. I collected local seed and tried to grow it on, but always lost it in subsequent years. Finally I just harvested seed and planted it in areas of my garden I thought it ought to like and tried to give those areas a bit of water that first summer and now I have a couple of clumps that are finally blooming. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TrilliumSpeciesTwo#ovatum Mary Sue From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sat Mar 8 10:44:39 2008 Message-Id: <003e01c88133$9a742fc0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Wiki Additions- Narcissus, Romulea, Trillium, Freesia Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 10:46:38 -0500 Thanks Mary Sue and Jay for this latest batch of pictures. My little plant of Freesia viridis is about to bloom in the protected cold frame. This was received in 2005 and has been outside since; I think it's time to move it from the "problematic" column over to the "success" column. Several other freesias were trialed in the cold frame this year and they, too, are doing well. Jay's daffodil pictures brought back some memories. Plants are important to me, of course, but so too are books. A gardening life led without books is not for me. I enjoy my plants through my books, and books as much as anything help to keep it all together. One of the daffodils Jay shows, 'Snipe', is one I've known about for nearly fifty years. It was illustrated on plate XVIII of Patrick Synge's Collins Guide to Bulbs, published in 1961. Back in those days, I never saw it on the daffodil lists from which I bought, although the similar-in-name and somewhat similar-in-appearance 'Jack Snipe' eventually became widely available. Both are cyclamineus hybrids and they have a similar color pattern, but the similarity ends there. 'Snipe' began to appear on the list of one of the big suppliers recently; maybe this year it will finally find its way into this garden. On that same plate XVIII is shown Narcissus cantabricus var petunioides. A plant answering to that description is about to flower in one of the cold frames now. My gosh, it's taken nearly fifty years for this to happen. I'm very happy now, happy as only someone who has known such long denial can understand. Thanks to all who have helped me realize this. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where I'm still waiting for the Romulea to bloom. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sat Mar 8 10:53:05 2008 Message-Id: <003f01c88134$b4b5b970$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Narcissus 'Cantatrice' Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 10:54:33 -0500 The reference to Synge in my previous message got me thinking about another daffodil which is illustrated in that book, one which seems to have disappeared from the face of the earth. Can anyone tell me if the cultivar 'Cantatrice' still exists? I grew this back in the '60s, but as the garden changed over the years it disappeared. Recently I've been asking my daffodil friends if they know about it but so far I've drawn a blank. If anyone knows of a source for 'Cantatrice', I would like to know about it. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Corydalis popovii, in its third year here, has popped into bloom in the protected frame. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From Blee811@aol.com Sat Mar 8 11:00:28 2008 Message-Id: From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: Narcissus 'Cantatrice' Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 11:00:21 EST In a message dated 3/8/2008 10:53:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com writes: Can anyone tell me if the cultivar 'Cantatrice' still exists? I still have 'Cantatrice', Jim. It's one of my favorites of the older cultivars. Very white and so graceful. I know that Dr. John Reed of Oakwood Daffodils in Niles, Michigan can furnish it. Whether he would be willing to dig a few bulbs this year or not is another question. Contact me privately if you don't know how to contact him and/or want to arrange something. Bill Lee **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) From lwallpe@cinci.rr.com Sat Mar 8 12:08:21 2008 Message-Id: <00a401c8813f$3555b030$2902a8c0@lindas> From: "Linda Wallpe" Subject: N. 'Cantatrice' Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 12:09:45 -0500 Jim - 'Cantatrice' still exists but probably only in the gardens of those who like to grow the historic daffodil varieties. Registered in 1936 by Guy Wilson, it is now considered an historic cultivar by the ADS. I can not find it listed in any of the specialty daffodil catalogs that I have. You might try contacting Old House Gardens to see if they have or can find a bulb or two for sale. If you liked 'Cantatrice', you might like 'Silent Valley', a slightly newer variety with similar form. Linda Wallpe Cincinnati, Ohio ready for spring but where the snow is blowing and drifting > Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 10:54:33 -0500 > From: "Jim McKenney" > Subject: [pbs] Narcissus 'Cantatrice' us-ascii" > > The reference to Synge in my previous message got me thinking about another > daffodil which is illustrated in that book, one which seems to have > disappeared from the face of the earth. Can anyone tell me if the cultivar > 'Cantatrice' still exists? > > I grew this back in the '60s, but as the garden changed over the years it > disappeared. Recently I've been asking my daffodil friends if they know > about it but so far I've drawn a blank. > > If anyone knows of a source for 'Cantatrice', I would like to know about it. From julietleigh@ihug.co.nz Sun Mar 9 00:52:36 2008 Message-Id: <003c01c881a6$f95683d0$4201a8c0@JulietsLaptop> From: "Juliet Leigh" Subject: Wiki Additions- Narcissus, Romulea, Trillium, Freesia Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 18:32:32 +1300 Wow Jim-are you related to Methusalah? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McKenney" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 4:46 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Wiki Additions- Narcissus, Romulea, Trillium, Freesia > Thanks Mary Sue and Jay for this latest batch of pictures. > > My little plant of Freesia viridis is about to bloom in the protected cold > frame. This was received in 2005 and has been outside since; I think it's > time to move it from the "problematic" column over to the "success" > column. > Several other freesias were trialed in the cold frame this year and they, > too, are doing well. > > Jay's daffodil pictures brought back some memories. Plants are important > to > me, of course, but so too are books. A gardening life led without books is > not for me. I enjoy my plants through my books, and books as much as > anything help to keep it all together. One of the daffodils Jay shows, > 'Snipe', is one I've known about for nearly fifty years. It was > illustrated > on plate XVIII of Patrick Synge's Collins Guide to Bulbs, published in > 1961. > Back in those days, I never saw it on the daffodil lists from which I > bought, although the similar-in-name and somewhat similar-in-appearance > 'Jack Snipe' eventually became widely available. Both are cyclamineus > hybrids and they have a similar color pattern, but the similarity ends > there. 'Snipe' began to appear on the list of one of the big suppliers > recently; maybe this year it will finally find its way into this garden. > > On that same plate XVIII is shown Narcissus cantabricus var petunioides. A > plant answering to that description is about to flower in one of the cold > frames now. My gosh, it's taken nearly fifty years for this to happen. > > I'm very happy now, happy as only someone who has known such long denial > can > understand. > > Thanks to all who have helped me realize this. > > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where I'm still waiting for > the Romulea to bloom. > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From dells@voicenet.com Sun Mar 9 08:00:27 2008 Message-Id: <20080309120023.5EC9D4C02F@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 166 CLOSED Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 07:59:07 -0400 Dear All, Your response has been overwhelming. I hope I can fill all of your requests. The seeds should go out later this week. Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From alessandro.marinohob@alice.it Sun Mar 9 08:56:52 2008 Message-Id: <001f01c881e4$6f287c70$2701a8c0@microsof7d2734> From: "alessandro.marinohob" Subject: Pacific BX 166 CLOSED Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 13:52:27 +0100 dear Dell not theree problems,and for a next future we are in earth,like I must my self be involved if I want to donate of seeds? Alessandro Marinello " Padova Italy " ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dell Sherk" To: "'Adam Fikso'" ; "'c'" ; ; "'Macfarlane'" ; "'Mark'" ; "'Mark Wilcox'" ; "Pat Colville" ; "PBS list" ; "The Masterson Family" Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 12:59 PM Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 166 CLOSED > Dear All, > > > > Your response has been overwhelming. I hope I can fill all of your > requests. > The seeds should go out later this week. > > > > Enjoy, > > Dell > > > > Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From msittner@mcn.org Sun Mar 9 11:35:53 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080309082749.034e5248@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: North American Lily Conference and Show July 2008 Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 08:32:26 -0700 Hi, I received this note from Jill Britton about this meeting which I think would be of interest to some of you. I expect there are even members of this group who expect to attend. If you are a member of a bulb related group that is having a meeting that you think others might be interested in knowing about, feel free to post the message about it to our group. Mary Sue It may interest members of the Pacific Bulb Society to know that the North American Lily Society will be holding its annual conference and show in Sidney-by-the-Sea on Vancouver Island ... a short ferry ride from both Seattle, Washington and Vancouver, BC. The event is being hosted by the Victoria Lily Society. International speakers include Brian Mathew of England who will be giving two presentations ... "Lilies from A to Z" ... and "The Best of the Rest". Members can learn all about the event by visiting our web page http://nals2008.org. A full press release follows: MARK YOUR CALENDARS! On July 2 - 6, the Victoria Lily Society will be hosting the North American Lily Society annual conference and show, Seaside Scentsation, at the Mary Winspear Centre in Sidney, BC. Conference registration is $100 which includes a reception with complimentary Vancouver Island wines and hors d'oeuvres, 12 conference lectures, and daily admission to the show and plant sale. International presenters include John Lykkegaard (Denmark), Brian Mathew (England), and Jaap Van Tuyl (The Netherlands). The judged show features lily stems, floral designs with lilies, and educational exhibits. For complete information and a registration form, visit NALS2008.org. If not on-line, printed handbooks can be obtained by contacting Jill Britton (250-652-5316) or Beth Ruskowski (250-598-6005). You do not have to be a conference registrant to enter stems or floral designs. The show will be open to the public on July 4 - 6 ($5 per day). See You at the "Seaside Scentsation" in Sidney by the Sea! Jill Britton From dells@voicenet.com Sun Mar 9 15:25:22 2008 Message-Id: <20080309192515.512CD4C015@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 166 CLOSED Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 15:24:57 -0400 Please send this message in Italian. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of alessandro.marinohob Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 8:52 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 166 CLOSED dear Dell not theree problems,and for a next future we are in earth,like I must my self be involved if I want to donate of seeds? Alessandro Marinello " Padova Italy " ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dell Sherk" To: "'Adam Fikso'" ; "'c'" ; ; "'Macfarlane'" ; "'Mark'" ; "'Mark Wilcox'" ; "Pat Colville" ; "PBS list" ; "The Masterson Family" Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 12:59 PM Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 166 CLOSED > Dear All, > > > > Your response has been overwhelming. I hope I can fill all of your > requests. > The seeds should go out later this week. > > > > Enjoy, > > Dell > > > > Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From dells@voicenet.com Sun Mar 9 15:28:51 2008 Message-Id: <20080309192841.A93764C015@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 166 CLOSED Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 15:27:42 -0400 Sorry for sending this to everyone. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dell Sherk Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 3:25 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 166 CLOSED Please send this message in Italian. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of alessandro.marinohob Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 8:52 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 166 CLOSED dear Dell not theree problems,and for a next future we are in earth,like I must my self be involved if I want to donate of seeds? Alessandro Marinello " Padova Italy " ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dell Sherk" To: "'Adam Fikso'" ; "'c'" ; ; "'Macfarlane'" ; "'Mark'" ; "'Mark Wilcox'" ; "Pat Colville" ; "PBS list" ; "The Masterson Family" Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 12:59 PM Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 166 CLOSED > Dear All, > > > > Your response has been overwhelming. I hope I can fill all of your > requests. > The seeds should go out later this week. > > > > Enjoy, > > Dell > > > > Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From alessandro.marinohob@alice.it Sun Mar 9 16:48:34 2008 Message-Id: <001f01c88226$b20d18b0$2701a8c0@microsof7d2734> From: "alessandro.marinohob" Subject: Pacific BX 166 CLOSED Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 21:46:47 +0100 Non ci sono problemi, siamo ancora vivi,ti volevo chiedere come devo fare se voglio donare dei semi grazie Alessandro ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dell Sherk" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 8:24 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 166 CLOSED > Please send this message in Italian. > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of alessandro.marinohob > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 8:52 AM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 166 CLOSED > > dear Dell > not theree problems,and for a next future we are in earth,like I must my > self be involved if I want to donate of seeds? > Alessandro Marinello " Padova Italy " > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dell Sherk" > To: "'Adam Fikso'" ; "'c'" > ; ; "'Macfarlane'" > ; "'Mark'" ; "'Mark Wilcox'" > ; "Pat Colville" ; > "PBS > > list" ; "The Masterson Family" > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 12:59 PM > Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 166 CLOSED > > >> Dear All, >> >> >> >> Your response has been overwhelming. I hope I can fill all of your >> requests. >> The seeds should go out later this week. >> >> >> >> Enjoy, >> >> Dell >> >> >> >> Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From allenr@boardfishing.com Sun Mar 9 22:22:29 2008 Message-Id: <47D49A9F.4010407@boardfishing.com> From: Allen Repashy Subject: Haemanthus at Quail Botanical Gardens Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 19:19:11 -0700 Hello Everyone, I was at Quail Botanical Gardens in Encinitas Ca. today and in the South Africa section they had a large species of Haemanthus that was in leaf. It was labeled as Haemanthus sanguineus. But looking at the Wiki, it doesn't look to me like this species. The leaf's were not prostrate at all... the two leafs were quite large and glossy and approx 6" across at the widest point. probably 18 " long each. shooting straight up and then curling down and touching the ground at the tips, with about an eight inch gap under the arch. It was quite striking. There were two or three clumps of the bulbs in the South African garden. Is anyone here familiar with Quail and the bulbs. I don't think if you were a bulb fan that you could miss them during the growing season. The description said it was a winter grower and deciduous. The plant to me looks exactly like Haemanthus coccineus, but I am a newbie at bulbs and only have photos for reference. Is it possible the plant is mis labeled at the garden? It sure seems the case, but I find it hard to believe they could make a mistake like that. Thanks, Allen From othonna@gmail.com Sun Mar 9 23:04:50 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260803092004qa96f208ke1261279719ad60b@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Haemanthus at Quail Botanical Gardens Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 20:04:48 -0700 Allen, Most botanic gardens do not have the luxury of a bulb specialist on staff, or even members or volunteers who know bulbs well. The plant you saw is almost certainly H. coccineus and not H. sanguineus, the latter in my experience having short broad leaves strongly appressed to the ground and finely rough-textured on the upper surface, with a narrow red margin. It is apparently not uncommon about Cape Town but remains inexplicably rare in cultivation, at least in California. Note that "sanguineus" and "coccineus" both have approximately the same descriptive meaning (red coloration) and the first name may have been accidentally recalled when the sign was made. One of the more notable monocot specimens at Quail was also mislabeled last time I saw it: an imposing bird's nest Anthurium with huge leaves, labeled A. schlechtendalii as I recall but it is actually the distinctive A. salviniae. It is not safe to presume that any name or identification is a sure thing in a botanic garden or any other collection of plants. This is especially true in gardens that lack trained botanical staff (as with Quail) and may not have the resources to verify the names or identities of their plants. Dylan Hannon On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 7:19 PM, Allen Repashy wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > I was at Quail Botanical Gardens in Encinitas Ca. today and in the South > Africa section they had a large species of Haemanthus that was in leaf. > It was labeled as Haemanthus sanguineus. But looking at the Wiki, it > doesn't look to me like this species. The leaf's were not prostrate at > all... the two leafs were quite large and glossy and approx 6" across at > the widest point. probably 18 " long each. shooting straight up and then > curling down and touching the ground at the tips, with about an eight > inch gap under the arch. It was quite striking. There were two or three > clumps of the bulbs in the South African garden. Is anyone here familiar > with Quail and the bulbs. I don't think if you were a bulb fan that you > could miss them during the growing season. The description said it was a > winter grower and deciduous. The plant to me looks exactly like > Haemanthus coccineus, but I am a newbie at bulbs and only have photos > for reference. Is it possible the plant is mis labeled at the garden? It > sure seems the case, but I find it hard to believe they could make a > mistake like that. > > Thanks, Allen > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From allenr@boardfishing.com Mon Mar 10 00:37:39 2008 Message-Id: <47D4BB0D.70203@boardfishing.com> From: Allen Repashy Subject: Haemanthus at Quail Botanical Gardens Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 21:37:33 -0700 From allen@repashy.com Mon Mar 10 00:39:44 2008 Message-Id: <47D4BB87.60607@repashy.com> From: Allen Repashy Subject: Haemanthus at Quail Botanical Gardens Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 21:39:35 -0700 Strange, my message came up blank... sending again... apologies to the group... Allen Thanks Dylan, Thanks for jumping in and giving your valued input. I am glad to know I am at least learning enough about bulbs to pick out the error. I was going to donate a few of my Agave specimens to the Garden, but maybe I should donate them a few new signs!. I will keep my eyes out for things like this. I will be on full alert for mislabeled bulbs when I make my maiden voyage up to the Huntington Botanical Gardens. Allen From crinum@libero.it Mon Mar 10 09:04:08 2008 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Grossi" Subject: Pacific BX 166 CLOSED Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:04:03 +0100 basta spedirli all'indirizzo postale di Dell! ---------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : "Pacific Bulb Society" pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Sun, 9 Mar 2008 21:46:47 +0100 Subject : Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 166 CLOSED > Non ci sono problemi, siamo ancora vivi,ti volevo chiedere come devo fare se > voglio donare dei semi > grazie Alessandro > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dell Sherk" > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 8:24 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 166 CLOSED > > > > Please send this message in Italian. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > > On Behalf Of alessandro.marinohob > > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 8:52 AM > > To: Pacific Bulb Society > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 166 CLOSED > > > > dear Dell > > not theree problems,and for a next future we are in earth,like I must my > > self be involved if I want to donate of seeds? > > Alessandro Marinello " Padova Italy " > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dell Sherk" > > To: "'Adam Fikso'" ; "'c'" > > ; ; "'Macfarlane'" > > ; "'Mark'" ; "'Mark Wilcox'" > > ; "Pat Colville" ; > > "PBS > > > > list" ; "The Masterson Family" > > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 12:59 PM > > Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 166 CLOSED > > > > > >> Dear All, > >> > >> > >> > >> Your response has been overwhelming. I hope I can fill all of your > >> requests. > >> The seeds should go out later this week. > >> > >> > >> > >> Enjoy, > >> > >> Dell > >> > >> > >> > >> Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> pbs mailing list > >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > Alberto Grossi Italy From crinum@libero.it Mon Mar 10 09:38:13 2008 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Grossi" Subject: Pacific BX 166 CLOSED Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:35:43 +0100 Sorry! Alberto ---------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : "pbs" pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:04:03 +0100 Subject : Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 166 CLOSED > basta spedirli all'indirizzo postale di Dell! > > > ---------- Initial Header ----------- > > >From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org > To : "Pacific Bulb Society" pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Cc : > Date : Sun, 9 Mar 2008 21:46:47 +0100 > Subject : Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 166 CLOSED > > > > > > > > > Non ci sono problemi, siamo ancora vivi,ti volevo chiedere come devo fare se > > voglio donare dei semi > > grazie Alessandro > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dell Sherk" > > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" > > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 8:24 PM > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 166 CLOSED > > > > > > > Please send this message in Italian. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > > > On Behalf Of alessandro.marinohob > > > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 8:52 AM > > > To: Pacific Bulb Society > > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 166 CLOSED > > > > > > dear Dell > > > not theree problems,and for a next future we are in earth,like I must my > > > self be involved if I want to donate of seeds? > > > Alessandro Marinello " Padova Italy " > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dell Sherk" > > > To: "'Adam Fikso'" ; "'c'" > > > ; ; "'Macfarlane'" > > > ; "'Mark'" ; "'Mark Wilcox'" > > > ; "Pat Colville" ; > > > "PBS > > > > > > list" ; "The Masterson Family" > > > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 12:59 PM > > > Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 166 CLOSED > > > > > > > > >> Dear All, > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Your response has been overwhelming. I hope I can fill all of your > > >> requests. > > >> The seeds should go out later this week. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Enjoy, > > >> > > >> Dell > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> pbs mailing list > > >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > Alberto Grossi > Italy > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > Alberto Grossi Italy From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Mar 10 10:40:43 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Cyclamen species bloom sequence Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:38:46 -0500 Dear Friends, Can anyone lead me to a calendar of bloom sequence for hardy species of Cylcamen. ? I have one that is just starting to bloom that I think is Cyc. (coum) caucasicum, but this seems very early. Anyone else have bloom outdoors in Zone 5? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Mar 10 10:47:53 2008 Message-Id: <000901c882bd$eb854a30$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Ornithogalum reverchonii Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 10:49:17 -0400 In the summer of 2005 Jane McGary sent me a bulb of Ornithogalum reverchonii. It was such a big bulb that as I potted it up I was confident that it would soon be in bloom. It did not bloom in 2006, and I figured that perhaps it did not like being in a pot. I planted it into the ground of the cold frame. It did not bloom in 2007. Yesterday I took a look, and there is a big inflorescence on the way up! Photos suggest that this is among the most if not the very most elegant of the Ornithogalum - Yippee! Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where frit buds are appearing fast and the Tecophilaea are blooming. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Mar 10 12:42:47 2008 Message-Id: <001601c882cd$970198f0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Chasmanthe floribunda Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:41:26 -0400 A year or two ago I described the problems I was having with Chasmanthe floribunda in my zone 7 garden. To make a long story short, it grew but did not bloom. Back then I was storing them dry inside during the winter and planting them out for the summer. At that time various suggestions were made. One was that it perhaps needed more heat. That suggestion I'm sure was made by someone who has never had the dubious pleasure of enduring summer in Maryland. My own thoughts leaned the other way: perhaps it needed a cool/cold period. With that in mind, I planted the corms outside in a protected spot where they could remain permanently - or die. Last year they came out of the ground too early and were severely cut by cold. This year, they are now just emerging. I'll protect them if necessary, but I'm getting the impression that little by little they are adapting to our local conditions. I'll let you know when they bloom (next year?). Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where slugs have discovered the emerging fritillaries and crinums are pushing up new growth. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From adam14113@ameritech.net Mon Mar 10 13:52:58 2008 Message-Id: <000b01c882d7$3c38e400$52ec8f47@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Ornithogalum reverchonii Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:50:29 -0500 Hello all. I note that it is pictured in the catalog (online) of Desirable Plants (U.K.) but also shows up if one uses www.Dogpile.com and clicks on images. The British nursery does not do mail order From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Mar 10 12:52:45 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080310105312.01701ec8@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Ornithogalum reverchonii Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 10:56:42 -0700 Jim wrote, >In the summer of 2005 Jane McGary sent me a bulb of Ornithogalum >reverchonii. ... Yesterday I took a look, and there is a big inflorescence >on the way up! Photos suggest that this is among the most if not the very >most elegant of the Ornithogalum - Yippee! This species, which is endangered in the wild owing to habitat loss, is a large plant with long, lax foliage, and the flowers are not as showy as one would hope after seeing the photos (Jim probably means the close-up in the Rix and Phillips "Bulbs" manual). Nevertheless, the flowers are unusual in form. I actually prefer the Ornithogalum species that flower right on the ground, stemless or nearly so. O. fimbriatum and O. lanceolatum are particularly pleasing, but they increase so slowly that I haven't tried them in the open garden yet. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Mon Mar 10 14:59:39 2008 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Ornithogalum fimbriatum Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:59:25 -0400 I can't speak to the matter of O. lanceolatum in the open garden, having been without it for several years, but O. fimbriatum (which -- like Jane -- find very pleasing, although we have difficulty selling any) does very well for me in my nursery flats. Said flats are finally visible again after about 3 months beneath the snow pack. Also visible are numerous shoots, nosing their way through the pine needle mulch that blankets the flats. Colchicum szovistii is sending up some flower buds, and I'm quite sure I saw some corydalis buds too -- some of the Central Asian species have a penchant for jumping the gun in our climate. Russell, in central Massachusetts, where spring is finally beginning to look like a possibility At 01:56 PM 3/10/2008, Jane McGary wrote: >I actually prefer the Ornithogalum species that flower right on the ground, >stemless or nearly so. O. fimbriatum and O. lanceolatum are particularly >pleasing, but they increase so slowly that I haven't tried them in the open >garden yet. Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Mon Mar 10 15:11:02 2008 Message-Id: <000701c882e1$25cbe0f0$393d6f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: Ornithogalum reverchonii Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:01:28 -0700 I've been listing it for some time. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs www.telosrarebulbs.com ----- Original Message ----- > Hello all. I note that it is pictured in the catalog (online) of Desirable > Plants (U.K.) but also shows up if one uses www.Dogpile.com and clicks on > images. The British nursery does not do mail order > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Mon Mar 10 15:25:39 2008 Message-Id: <47D58B27.3000205@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Chasmanthe floribunda Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:25:27 -0700 This is interesting, Jim. I don't know which side of South Africa they come from, but here in So. California I see them almost naturalized (even a few up the canyon in the national forest area) and they are definitely a natural winter-grower/summer-dormant plant in this climate. (Which could explain the too-early emergence for you.) --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a Jim McKenney wrote: > A year or two ago I described the problems I was having with Chasmanthe > floribunda in my zone 7 garden. To make a long story short, it grew but did > not bloom. Back then I was storing them dry inside during the winter and > planting them out for the summer. At that time various suggestions were > made. One was that it perhaps needed more heat. That suggestion I'm sure was > made by someone who has never had the dubious pleasure of enduring summer in > Maryland. My own thoughts leaned the other way: perhaps it needed a > cool/cold period. > > With that in mind, I planted the corms outside in a protected spot where > they could remain permanently - or die. > > Last year they came out of the ground too early and were severely cut by > cold. This year, they are now just emerging. I'll protect them if necessary, > but I'm getting the impression that little by little they are adapting to > our local conditions. > > I'll let you know when they bloom (next year?). > > From rdjenkins@bellsouth.net Mon Mar 10 15:52:01 2008 Message-Id: <001c01c882e8$2b9333b0$6101a8c0@JenkinsMachine> From: "rdjenkins" Subject: Chasmanthe floribunda Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:51:42 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McKenney" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 12:41 PM Subject: [pbs] Chasmanthe floribunda >A year or two ago I described the problems I was having with Chasmanthe > floribunda in my zone 7 garden. > Jim McKenney I tried these just once. They were available with the fall bulbs and I put them in in Sept. or Oct. and they started up right away. They froze out almost completely during the winter. I think one may have survived, but in any case it dies the next winter. As Len said, it's a winter grower in the northern hemisphere and in 7B, it doesn't make it, unless a very protected and warm situation can be had. Not sure if fall-purchased ones can be vernalized. Robert. From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Mar 10 15:53:41 2008 Message-Id: <000901c882e8$abbc0a30$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Chasmanthe floribunda Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:55:15 -0400 Lee Poulsen wrote: " This is interesting, Jim. I don't know which side of South Africa they come from, but here in So. California I see them almost naturalized (even a few up the canyon in the national forest area) and they are definitely a natural winter-grower/summer-dormant plant in this climate. (Which could explain the too-early emergence for you.)" What I didn't mention is that now that they're outside, they are summer dormant here, too. There is a burst of growth in late winter and early spring, but by mid summer they've browned off. The first time this happened, I thought I had lost them. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 where Cardiocrinum cordatum is above ground. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From othonna@gmail.com Mon Mar 10 18:40:42 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260803101452k67142eccy69a530b008f823c0@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Ornithogalum reverchonii Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:52:02 -0700 This species has grown well for me for over 15 years in containers, really on the cramped side I'm afraid. They do not always flower but last year was very good. One of the best things about this plant is that it can be maintained well under considerable shade. I was told it grows on shaded limestone cliffs in at least one locality. Also unusual among 'thogs in having no stripes at all on the tepals; flowers are pure white. Dylan Hannon On 3/10/08, Jim McKenney wrote: > > In the summer of 2005 Jane McGary sent me a bulb of Ornithogalum > reverchonii. It was such a big bulb that as I potted it up I was confident > that it would soon be in bloom. > > It did not bloom in 2006, and I figured that perhaps it did not like being > in a pot. I planted it into the ground of the cold frame. It did not bloom > in 2007. > > Yesterday I took a look, and there is a big inflorescence on the way up! > > Photos suggest that this is among the most if not the very most elegant of > the Ornithogalum - Yippee! > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where frit buds are > appearing > fast and the Tecophilaea are blooming. > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Mar 10 19:37:53 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Ornithogalum reverchonii Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:00:01 -0700 Aha! 'thogs - now I know how you pronounce it. My abbreviation would have been 'niths. Either one would puzzle most hearers, I guess. Diane Whitehead From johannes-ulrich-urban@t-online.de Mon Mar 10 19:39:45 2008 Message-Id: <1JYr13-0AD0aM0@fwd24.aul.t-online.de> From: johannes-ulrich-urban@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: BX 162 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:02:45 +0100 Dear All, This is an attempt to source one or two of the plants offered as seed at the end of 2007 in the BX 162, especially a Rhodochiton ? species from Mexico and perhaps Milla magnifica. I contacted the donor of the seed but he had no leftovers neither. I am very interested in these plants and wonder if someone might have just a few seeds left or if someone would be happy to harvest seeds for me from plants grown from the BX 162 seeds, especially the Rhodochiton. I am happy to cover all expenses. I very much hope you do not mind me trying in this rather unusual way. With many thanks and greetings from spring in northern Germany, Uli From rrherold@gmail.com Mon Mar 10 21:43:36 2008 Message-Id: <47D5E3BE.6080208@gmail.com> From: Roy Herold Subject: Cyclamen species bloom sequence Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:43:26 -0400 I have had a couple of generic coums blooming outside since this past Sunday, literally two days after the snow and ice melted. That was fast! The long bloom award for cyclamen this season goes to a potted cyprium that started blooming outdoors in September, and still has a couple of flowers open today in the greenhouse. Lovely leaves, too, with patterns that are distinct from the other species. Years ago I had a C. purparascens that had at least one flower open in each month of a year long stretch. Never been able to duplicate it since. --Roy NW of Boston Sort of Zone 5/6, but only down to +1F this winter with good snow cover. Arnold Trachtenberg wrote: > Jim; > > Check the Cyclamen Society web page. > > http://www.cyclamen.org/indexCS.html > > I get Cyclamen hederifolium to bloom each fall under a medlar tree. > Tried C. coum outdoors but didn't make an appearance. > > Arnold > New Jersey > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From arnold@nj.rr.com Mon Mar 10 21:07:57 2008 Message-Id: <47D5E8AC.5000104@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Cyclamen species bloom sequence Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:04:28 -0500 Jim; Check the Cyclamen Society web page. http://www.cyclamen.org/indexCS.html I get Cyclamen hederifolium to bloom each fall under a medlar tree. Tried C. coum outdoors but didn't make an appearance. Arnold New Jersey From samclan@redshift.com Tue Mar 11 02:24:24 2008 Message-Id: <018b01c88336$4a8b60a0$014ffb48@DF5XS5C1> From: "Shirley" Subject: Chasmanthe floribunda Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:41:09 -0700 I have a large stand of Chasmanthe floribunda that borders on being invasive here in the central coastal area of California (Monterey Bay). They tend to bloom about the same time as the Camellia sasanquas and are definitely winter growers and summer dormant or almost so. Shirley Meneice ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McKenney" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 12:55 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Chasmanthe floribunda > Lee Poulsen wrote: " This is interesting, Jim. I don't know which side of > South Africa they > come from, but here in So. California I see them almost naturalized > (even a few up the canyon in the national forest area) and they are > definitely a natural winter-grower/summer-dormant plant in this climate. > (Which could explain the too-early emergence for you.)" > > > What I didn't mention is that now that they're outside, they are summer > dormant here, too. There is a burst of growth in late winter and early > spring, but by mid summer they've browned off. The first time this > happened, > I thought I had lost them. > > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 where Cardiocrinum cordatum > is > above ground. > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From leo@possi.org Tue Mar 11 20:22:16 2008 Message-Id: <1166.75.172.195.49.1205280287.squirrel@possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Wha'ts blooming Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:04:47 -0700 (MST) Hello All, It's been rewarding to see some of my seedlings blooming for the first time. Here's what's bloomed in the past two weeks: Babiana attenuata (1st season bloomed) Babiana curviscapa (1st season bloomed) These two plants are very similar (but not identical) and the flowers are also very similar (but not identical.) I can't find B. curviscapa in Goldblatt's Cape Bulbs. Each pot will have two plants blooming but consecutively. I don't want to make hybrids. Several of my friends detect a distinct sweet aroma to the B. attenuata but I can't smell anything. I don't know whether that's due to a stuffy head or my genetic makeup. Babiana sinuata (3rd season bloomed) Has a wonderful scent that carries. For the first time two plants are overlapping bloom by a few flowers so I hope to get some seed for the seed bank. Bulbinella eburnifolia (1st season bloomed) Also two plants overlapping bloom. Bottle brushes of white with brigbt yellow stamens. Musty aroma. Ferraria ferrarioloa (1st season bloomed) The color and bouquet of fine absinthe. Just one plant. Freesia tricuspidata (2nd season bloomed) A tiny plant without scent but with nice flowers. Gladiolus scullyi (1st season bloomed) I've read it smells like violets, but to me it has a strong scent just like the leaves of what is sold as "Lime Geranium." Hesperantha vaginata (1st season bloomed) Wow. Just one plant blooming. The shine on the petals is like that on tulips that have just opened. Lachenalia aloides var quadricolor (has bloomed for many years) I can't think of a more vigorous and easy-to-grow winter bulb than this Lach. Lachenalia kliprandensis (1st season bloomed) Powerful scent, very similar to that of L. comptonii. Lachenalia unicolor (1st season bloomed) Just opening. Nice electric purple-blue. Lapeirousis jacquinii (1st season bloomed) Two different sowings. One came as L. sp and the other as L. jacquinii. One plant is almost finished and the other hasn't quite opened yet but I have hope. Pelargonium incrassatum (1st season bloomed) One of the tuberous ones. Electric magenta flowers in a surprisingly large umbel for the size of the plant. Just one plant but it seems to be making some fruits. Romulea monticola (1st season bloomed) Small yellow flowers. One tiny plant of four will bloom this year; one flower is finished, another opening today, and another just emerging. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From paige@hillkeep.ca Wed Mar 12 01:02:01 2008 Message-Id: <001701c883f7$cd0de5e0$71b41f45@m6u3j5> From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: Mark McDonough alliums available Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:16:07 -0700 Dear all: As you know, Mark McDonough's selections of Allium flavum subsp. tauricum are chronicled on his website, www.plantbuzz.com He sent me samples of some of his best ones a few years ago. I'm happy to tell you that three of the most prolific are now available on my website, www.hillkeep.ca . 'Lemon Cooler' is a bracing, acid pale yellow; 'Cantaloupe' and 'Cinnamon' are warm and tawny. All three contrast strikingly with their powdery, grey-blue foliage. I know that PBS has an embargo on commercial announcements. But Mark is a member of this group and I know that many of you have asked for his alliums over the years. For what it's worth, they are priced for sharing. Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca From jyourch@nc.rr.com Wed Mar 12 12:05:55 2008 Message-Id: <25938626.320441205337919950.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web03-z02> From: Jay Yourch Subject: Mark McDonough alliums available Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:05:19 -0400 Here are some links to these on the PBS Wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/AlliumFlavumRelatives#Lemon http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/AlliumFlavumRelatives#Cantaloupe http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/AlliumFlavumRelatives#Cinnamon Paige Woodward wrote: As you know, Mark McDonough's selections of Allium flavum subsp. tauricum are chronicled on his website, www.plantbuzz.com He sent me samples of some of his best ones a few years ago. I'm happy to tell you that three of the most prolific are now available on my website, www.hillkeep.ca . 'Lemon Cooler' is a bracing, acid pale yellow; 'Cantaloupe' and 'Cinnamon' are warm and tawny. All three contrast strikingly with their powdery, grey-blue foliage. From JFlintoff@aol.com Wed Mar 12 12:30:21 2008 Message-Id: <8CA5275754FA863-B10-385@webmail-nd03.sysops.aol.com> From: jflintoff@aol.com Subject: pbs] Mark McDonough alliums available Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:30:03 -0400 ?? Re Allium flavum ssp tauricum ' Lemon Cooler '- as a lover of soft yellow tones I don't think I would use the term "acid" to describe such a gentle hue.? It is a super plant that I aways look foreward to seeing each summer. J John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washington,USA Zone 8 From kellso@irvincentral.com Wed Mar 12 13:05:21 2008 Message-Id: <47D80D2A.5040400@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Mark McDonough alliums available Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:04:42 -0500 Would anybody in the U.S. be interested in combining an order? I could pass the offer on to my customer base, too, and the price could just be a U.S. "equivalent", taking into account all costs (but no more than) and my standard shipping fee, of course. If so, contact my business e-mail, meister@bulbmeister.com, and I will inquire with Paige about availability. I won't be available next week, and I'm trying to get my list published by this weekend. So, if interested, please respond in the next couple of days. Thanks. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b Pacific Rim wrote: > Dear all: > > As you know, Mark McDonough's selections of Allium flavum subsp. tauricum > are chronicled on his website, www.plantbuzz.com > > He sent me samples of some of his best ones a few years ago. I'm happy to > tell you that three of the most prolific are now available on my website, > www.hillkeep.ca . > > 'Lemon Cooler' is a bracing, acid pale yellow; 'Cantaloupe' and 'Cinnamon' > are warm and tawny. All three contrast strikingly with their powdery, > grey-blue > foliage. > > I know that PBS has an embargo on commercial announcements. But Mark is a > member of this group and I know that many of you have asked for his alliums > over the years. For what it's worth, they are priced for sharing. > > Paige Woodward > paige@hillkeep.ca > www.hillkeep.ca > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From paige@hillkeep.ca Wed Mar 12 15:33:08 2008 Message-Id: <018301c88477$bb3c8760$6db41f45@m6u3j5> From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: pbs] Mark McDonough alliums available Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:31:49 -0700 Jerry John Flintoff wrote: > ?? Re Allium flavum ssp tauricum ' Lemon Cooler '- as a lover of soft > yellow tones I don't think I would use the term "acid" to describe such a > gentle hue.? It is a super plant that I aways look foreward to seeing each > summer. We agree on the beauty of the creature, at least. :-)) Paige From dszeszko@gmail.com Wed Mar 12 16:06:11 2008 Message-Id: <9912b0b60803121305q7583321elae13998b6c187f96@mail.gmail.com> From: "Dennis Szeszko" Subject: BX 162 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:05:55 -0600 Johannes: I will do my best to source seeds of both of these plants for you, but it will not be until September. I have a few corms of Milla magnifica that I will be planting in the next few weeks and with some luck they will produce copious seed. The other plant that I tentatively have identified as a Rhodochiton species is growing in my greenhouse and will likely produce seed, as well. A botanist was going to confirm the identify of this plant for me and l will be pass along the information to the PBS listserv. The other seed that I offered of Tigridia aff. mortonii in BX 162 has been confirmed by a Tigridia specialist as, indeed, being this species. This is a true botanical oddity and the first time that this plant has been collected in over 85 years. I hope that people who received seeds of this species have luck in growing it to flowering size. It is the only known Tigridia species with red flowers. (Tigridia pavonia has some selected clones that are red, but in nature it is never this color.) > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:02:45 +0100 > From: johannes-ulrich-urban@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) > Subject: [pbs] BX 162 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <1JYr13-0AD0aM0@fwd24.aul.t-online.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Dear All, > > > > This is an attempt to source one or two of the plants offered as seed at > the > end of 2007 in the BX 162, especially a Rhodochiton ? species from Mexico > and > perhaps Milla magnifica. I contacted the donor of the seed but he had no > leftovers neither. I am very interested in these plants and wonder if > someone > might have just a few seeds left or if someone would be happy to harvest > seeds > for me from plants grown from the BX 162 seeds, especially the > Rhodochiton. I > am happy to cover all expenses. I very much hope you do not mind me trying > in > this rather unusual way. > > > With many thanks and greetings from spring in northern Germany, Uli > > From totototo@telus.net Wed Mar 12 17:17:01 2008 Message-Id: <20080312211433.2BVADCX203@priv-edtnaa05.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Sleeping Beauties from South America Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:15:26 -0700 Some years ago, a pot of Beauverdia sellowiana (aka Ipheion sellowianum, and now considered as Nothoscordum something-or-other) was exposed to more cold than it could handle. But instead of the bulbs rotting away, they simply went totally dormant. Every year I'd inspect the pot, note the absence of new growth, tip it out, and see endless bulbs just sitting there with no trace of root or top growth. The smaller bulblets dwindled in numbers, but the larger ones seemed to hold their own. Someone posted a message here on the PBS mailing list in which they mentioned using heat to give some sluggish amaryllidaceous plant a kick in the ribs and wake up to active growth. Following this tip, I moved my Beauverdia into the house and parked in inside a south- facing patio door where it got full sun most of the day and the soil was warmed up well and truly. This strategy worked; the Beauverdia soon came back to life and has thriven to this day, though flowers remain few. This last week I was making the rounds of the coldframes and observed two other Iphieon-ish bulbs showed only a very few grassy leaves. These were seedlings of Ipheion 'Alberto Castillo' and Ipheion 'Rolf Fiedler' (now Tristagma something-or-other). On tipping the pots out, it was the same story all over again with both of them: plenty of healthy bulbs, but no roots and no top growth. These are now undergoing the patio door treatment and I have my fingers crossed. I'll give this mailing list a report in a month or two when the experiment will have failed or succeeded. I wonder how widespread in the Amaryllidaceae this kind of behavior is. Has anyone else noticed it and, if so, in what species? Or is this behavior restricted to Ipheion and its close relatives? PS: Ipheion uniflora itself seems immune to cold: flats of seedlings of 'Froyle Mill' exposed to the full onslaught of winter cold and rain have plenty of foliage and even some flowers. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From xerics@cox.net Wed Mar 12 16:20:57 2008 Message-Id: <001101c88486$d3bd9400$96f9b546@richard> From: "Richard" Subject: BX 162 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:19:59 -0800 Dennis, I received a few seeds of the ?rhodochiton? But so far there is no germination. I keep them in a greenhouse with a 80 degree minimum temp. (heat Mat) Any ideas on germination them. It has been a long while. The only seed that showed some germination was the Pentstamen. Richard Vista CA -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Szeszko Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 12:06 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] BX 162 Johannes: I will do my best to source seeds of both of these plants for you, but it will not be until September. I have a few corms of Milla magnifica that I will be planting in the next few weeks and with some luck they will produce copious seed. The other plant that I tentatively have identified as a Rhodochiton species is growing in my greenhouse and will likely produce seed, as well. A botanist was going to confirm the identify of this plant for me and l will be pass along the information to the PBS listserv. The other seed that I offered of Tigridia aff. mortonii in BX 162 has been confirmed by a Tigridia specialist as, indeed, being this species. This is a true botanical oddity and the first time that this plant has been collected in over 85 years. I hope that people who received seeds of this species have luck in growing it to flowering size. It is the only known Tigridia species with red flowers. (Tigridia pavonia has some selected clones that are red, but in nature it is never this color.) > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:02:45 +0100 > From: johannes-ulrich-urban@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) > Subject: [pbs] BX 162 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <1JYr13-0AD0aM0@fwd24.aul.t-online.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Dear All, > > > > This is an attempt to source one or two of the plants offered as seed > at the end of 2007 in the BX 162, especially a Rhodochiton ? species > from Mexico and > perhaps Milla magnifica. I contacted the donor of the seed but he had no > leftovers neither. I am very interested in these plants and wonder if > someone > might have just a few seeds left or if someone would be happy to harvest > seeds > for me from plants grown from the BX 162 seeds, especially the > Rhodochiton. I > am happy to cover all expenses. I very much hope you do not mind me trying > in > this rather unusual way. > > > With many thanks and greetings from spring in northern Germany, Uli > > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Mar 12 21:47:55 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080312144934.016a5548@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Fritillaria hybrids Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:03:06 -0700 The fritillarias are getting going well now and I'm having the annual anxiety of trying to verify their identities. Oh for a monograph! I wish I were not so intimidated by the thought of posting photos on the PBS wiki -- every time I try it, I seem to do it wrong. The big surprise today was the first flower in a pot of seedlings of F. pluriflora, seeds from my own plants. It appears to be a hybrid with the pollen parent probably being F. striata, which flowers nearby at the same time. F. pluriflora flowers are held upfacing or at an oblique tilt, whereas this one has fully pendent flowers like F. striata. The tepals are slightly reflexed at the tips, like striata but not like pluriflora. It is deep pink, like pluriflora, but shows the "dotted line" tesselation of F. striata, and also that species' white style. It does not have the sweet fragrance typical of striata. I have sent photos to experts for their opinions. These two species both come from California, but are widely separated geographically. I'm eagerly awaiting the first flowering this year of another plant that I know is a hybrid, because I made a deliberate cross with pollen of F. eastwoodiae onto what I think is F. gentneri (or a very large, flaring F. recurva, which is basically ... gentneri). I did this because I had only one clone of the latter, so could not get pure seed of it, and was curious. F. eastwoodiae itself is sometimes claimed to be a natural hybrid of F. recurva x F. micrantha, but it is very stable and fertile, and I suspect it should be viewed as a good species. I've previously written about bee hybrids here between F. biflora and F. purdyi (both ways), and Ed Rustvold of Berkeley, California, has sent me material of plants he thinks are this cross. Diana Chapman and I have apparent hybrids of F. liliacea x F. agrestis that were made by bees here -- no improvement on the former, unfortunately, as they are green instead of white and smell bad. I prefer to grow wild species, but these garden hybrids are fascinating too, and the purdyi x biflora cross is both attractive and unusually robust, probably a better garden plant than the somewhat miffy F. purdyi but preserving its black-and-white tessellation and shiny surface texture. It also produces many offsets AND viable seed -- I may see the F2 flower this year. So if you'd like to be a lily breeder and don't have much room, consider their little cousins. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Wed Mar 12 20:24:54 2008 Message-Id: <17658291.1205367866948.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: Sleeping Beauties from South America Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:24:26 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >This strategy worked; the Beauverdia soon came back to life and has >thriven to this day, though flowers remain few. > > >This last week I was making the rounds of the coldframes and observed >two other Iphieon-ish bulbs showed only a very few grassy leaves. >These were seedlings of Ipheion 'Alberto Castillo' I recently moved potted Beauverdia 7 hundred or so miles southward from Connecticut to North Carolina, keep them to the same minimum winter temperature, but the bloom and vigor is significantly better here in NC. I think they may prefer the higher summer temps, or are responding to the better quality light. Ipheion 'Alberto Cstillo' is just going over in the greenhouse, but in the landscape, they have been in bloom for several weeks now. Will these become weedy in northeast NC? Mark Mazer Hertford, Norrth Carolina, USA Zone 7b-8, I think From hansennursery@coosnet.com Wed Mar 12 22:18:21 2008 Message-Id: <003d01c884af$8f1b8db0$c7f164d0@homed4aec9b2d8> From: "Robin Hansen" Subject: Fritillaria hybrids Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:11:29 -0700 My frits, too, are having their happiest spring in years, think it must be the prolonged cold we have had here on the coast -- weeks and weeks of it. A question for Jane and whoever received Erythronium x multiscapoideum or ?? Multiscapoideum itself is blooming but there is an erythronium you thought might be a hybrid, Jane; it is spectacular! The leaf pattern is quite a bit darker and more defined and the leaves, stems and buds are all flushed a wonderful rose. It's not quite in bloom yet and I will get photos as soon as possible. Has anyone had this one bloom? And if so, do you have any clues as to identity? It does seem more vigorous than the species. Robin Hansen Southwest Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: Jane McGary To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 3:03 PM Subject: [pbs] Fritillaria hybrids The fritillarias are getting going well now and I'm having the annual anxiety of trying to verify their identities. Oh for a monograph! I wish I were not so intimidated by the thought of posting photos on the PBS wiki -- every time I try it, I seem to do it wrong. The big surprise today was the first flower in a pot of seedlings of F. pluriflora, seeds from my own plants. It appears to be a hybrid with the pollen parent probably being F. striata, which flowers nearby at the same time. F. pluriflora flowers are held upfacing or at an oblique tilt, whereas this one has fully pendent flowers like F. striata. The tepals are slightly reflexed at the tips, like striata but not like pluriflora. It is deep pink, like pluriflora, but shows the "dotted line" tesselation of F. striata, and also that species' white style. It does not have the sweet fragrance typical of striata. I have sent photos to experts for their opinions. These two species both come from California, but are widely separated geographically. I'm eagerly awaiting the first flowering this year of another plant that I know is a hybrid, because I made a deliberate cross with pollen of F. eastwoodiae onto what I think is F. gentneri (or a very large, flaring F. recurva, which is basically ... gentneri). I did this because I had only one clone of the latter, so could not get pure seed of it, and was curious. F. eastwoodiae itself is sometimes claimed to be a natural hybrid of F. recurva x F. micrantha, but it is very stable and fertile, and I suspect it should be viewed as a good species. I've previously written about bee hybrids here between F. biflora and F. purdyi (both ways), and Ed Rustvold of Berkeley, California, has sent me material of plants he thinks are this cross. Diana Chapman and I have apparent hybrids of F. liliacea x F. agrestis that were made by bees here -- no improvement on the former, unfortunately, as they are green instead of white and smell bad. I prefer to grow wild species, but these garden hybrids are fascinating too, and the purdyi x biflora cross is both attractive and unusually robust, probably a better garden plant than the somewhat miffy F. purdyi but preserving its black-and-white tessellation and shiny surface texture. It also produces many offsets AND viable seed -- I may see the F2 flower this year. So if you'd like to be a lily breeder and don't have much room, consider their little cousins. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Thu Mar 13 02:56:47 2008 Message-Id: <003101c884ce$1e70d6a0$6129085a@acer6281efdef1> From: "brown.mark" Subject: Sleeping Beauties from South America and double wild Narcissus Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 06:50:18 +0100 That is strange beacause I nearly lost my Rolf Fiedler through cold until it wen't back into the greenhouse which has some minimal heat.Now I have two pot fulls after going down to one or two bulbs.It is just as you say all the baby bulbs died in the freeze.Nothing happened for a year.I nearly gave up but tipped out the bulbs from thier pot and as there was still a week leaf or two I persisted.And voilà the result.Wisley blue can cope with much more cold.I have lost Charlotte Bishop sadly ,but Alberto Castillio is in the open garden and flowers whenever it feels like it and the weather is not too cold.I must try to get some more clones.I have to get everything from England which is a drag... Double clones of Narcissus pseudonarcissus are coming out now.I have seven or eight diffrent ones.Who else grows or likes these?The woods around here in Normandy are yellow with them.Sunday I found a pale citron single form in the woods by the sea here. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 10:15 PM Subject: [pbs] Sleeping Beauties from South America > Some years ago, a pot of Beauverdia sellowiana (aka Ipheion > sellowianum, and now considered as Nothoscordum something-or-other) > was exposed to more cold than it could handle. But instead of the > bulbs rotting away, they simply went totally dormant. Every year I'd > inspect the pot, note the absence of new growth, tip it out, and see > endless bulbs just sitting there with no trace of root or top growth. > > The smaller bulblets dwindled in numbers, but the larger ones seemed > to hold their own. > > Someone posted a message here on the PBS mailing list in which they > mentioned using heat to give some sluggish amaryllidaceous plant a > kick in the ribs and wake up to active growth. Following this tip, I > moved my Beauverdia into the house and parked in inside a south- > facing patio door where it got full sun most of the day and the soil > was warmed up well and truly. > > This strategy worked; the Beauverdia soon came back to life and has > thriven to this day, though flowers remain few. > > > This last week I was making the rounds of the coldframes and observed > two other Iphieon-ish bulbs showed only a very few grassy leaves. > These were seedlings of Ipheion 'Alberto Castillo' and Ipheion 'Rolf > Fiedler' (now Tristagma something-or-other). On tipping the pots out, > it was the same story all over again with both of them: plenty of > healthy bulbs, but no roots and no top growth. > > These are now undergoing the patio door treatment and I have my > fingers crossed. I'll give this mailing list a report in a month or > two when the experiment will have failed or succeeded. > > > I wonder how widespread in the Amaryllidaceae this kind of behavior > is. Has anyone else noticed it and, if so, in what species? Or is > this behavior restricted to Ipheion and its close relatives? > > > PS: Ipheion uniflora itself seems immune to cold: flats of seedlings > of 'Froyle Mill' exposed to the full onslaught of winter cold and > rain have plenty of foliage and even some flowers. > > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate > > on beautiful Vancouver Island > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From dejager@bulbargence.com Thu Mar 13 03:53:44 2008 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Sleeping Beauties from South America Ipheons Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:21:53 +0100 Dear listmembers, Now that Paige opened the subject on Ipheions, I would like report on our Iphions here in the nursery. All grown outside in the ground and flowering is now at its best. Following my Ipheion posting last summer I report on the september 2006 sowings of: --Alberto Castillo (fairly uniform, but 100% white), -- Charlotte Bishop (varying from light rose to a nice deep pink), --Froylemill, (70% deep purple, some with a white centre, some all purple, by the way I doubt the identity of Froylemill in the wiki page, the sowing contains some interesting large pale blue plants, possibly a result of "Alberto Castillo" pollen?) --Rolf Fiedler: 100% true Some list members obtained several lots of 100b of these sowings, it would be interesting to hear their reports on the flowering. Alberto Castillo has sent me some bulbs of a selection "Summerskies", which now shows its large blue flowers. It looks like a large improved form of 'Rolf Fiedler'(I will have a closer look at its bulbs next summer) and is certainly of future interest. Next weekend I will put up a series of pictures on the wiki. Bye for now -- Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence South of France (zone 9 (olive trees) emailto: dejager@bulbargence.com Site www.bulbargence.com Le 12/03/08 22:15, « totototo@telus.net » a écrit : > These were seedlings of Ipheion 'Alberto Castillo' and Ipheion 'Rolf Fiedler' > PS: Ipheion uniflora itself seems immune to cold: flats of seedlings > of 'Froyle Mill' exposed to the full onslaught of winter cold and > rain have plenty of foliage and even some flowers. From msittner@mcn.org Thu Mar 13 11:41:43 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080313075355.03468680@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions- Hepatica, Narcissus, Leptoceras Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:11:50 -0700 In the past week there have been these additions: Hepatica nobilis from Alessandro Marinello http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Hepatica Additional Narcissus pictures from Jay Yourch Additional pictures of 'Elka' and 'Snipe' at a later stage when the cup color has faded http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MiniatureNarcissus New pictures of 'Pinza' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionTwo#Pinza Add new cultivars 'Toby the First' and 'Wisley' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionSix Add Narcissus jonquilla var. henriquesii http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusSpeciesOne#jonquilla Another orchid from Australia, Leptoceras menziesii or the Rabbit or Hare orchid. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Leptoceras From msittner@mcn.org Thu Mar 13 12:18:32 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080313081751.034ff1c8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Posts to the list from multiple addresses Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:40:40 -0700 Hi, Since this list has been hosted by ibiblio the amount of spam addressed to it has increased dramatically. As this happens we as administrators (Arnold, Diane, and me) have tried to cope with it and so has ibiblio. One of the changes that ibiblio is making as of next week is to discard all messages that come from addresses not subscribed to the list. In the past anyone writing to the list who was not subscribed would get a message telling them their note was not delivered since they were not a member of the list. Unfortunately the spammers would then send spam to the address that sent this message and soon the spam to this address was out of control. At first we got all these messages delivered to our email addresses too, but finally that was too much so they are now held in a place where we can look at them. When those messages got to be 100s a day, ibiblio started to filter them as well so the number of those we have to look at has recently been reduced. If one of those message came from one of you using an additional email address that was not the one you were subscribed under, we could help. Now those messages will just be discarded automatically without notice. So if you post to the group and you don't see that it appears, check first to be sure that you used the same address for the messages you receive. If you want to be able to post from multiple addresses you need to let Arnold, Diane, and me know. We can add the extra addresses as approved addresses where you won't get messages but can send messages to our list. A number of you have already given us extra addresses. Messages from people trying to reach members of this list from the archives and looking for help we expect to be discarded automatically too. Diane has proposed a way we could still see these messages, but we haven't heard from ibiblio back to know if this is an alternative. This change will save us time, especially Diane, but will mean that there are people we will no longer be able to help. I think back to those early days of the Internet when you didn't need a firewall, didn't have to worry about viruses or other evil plans to steal your identity and/or wreck your computer, and when you didn't receive all kinds of messages you don't want to get. Mary sue From djordan68@comcast.net Thu Mar 13 13:48:26 2008 Message-Id: <58F067733178417AA9FD1A1A452E936A@debbiePC> From: "Deborah Jordan" Subject: Ipheions Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:01:08 -0500 Northoscordum sellowianum is a rampant (to the point of almost weedy) grower down here. It seems to prefer acidic conditions (add a little Holly-tone) and definitely prefers some summer moisture. It blooms nonstop from January-February. A good winter blooming species here. All varieties of Ipheions are rampant growers almost to the point of being weedy here (but appreciated for their early blooms). But they will take a lot drier summer conditions than N sellowianum. They are all at their peak about now. Debbie Houston, Texas (zone 9a); where H glausecens is about to bloom From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Mar 13 13:56:41 2008 Message-Id: <000001c8852d$32ad7470$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Wiki Additions- Hepatica, Narcissus, Leptoceras Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:10:49 -0400 Thanks for the heads-up on the new wiki additions, Mary Sue. And good timing, too: Hepatic nobilis and Narcissus jonquilla henriquesii are both blooming today in my Maryland garden. Leucojum vernum came into bloom today - here it's always much later than the early snowdrops. I have just come in from the garden after a morning of "counting my chickens". It's a real pleasure to see so many flower buds pushing up beside so many labels with the names of longed-for plants. Out in the open garden we're in the Crocus vernus cultivar/reticulate iris/early squill/earliest daffodil/garden hellebore stage. In the cold frames it's a different world with lots of frits showing buds, hoop petticoat daffodils in variety and others too numerous to list. Lots of Viola odorata are blooming now - that makes it easy to linger in the garden; and winter honeysuckle sweetens the air now, too. Buxus sempervirens 'Vardar Valley' is in bloom. Bird song increases daily, but I have not heard a peeper or wood frog yet (although I'll bet the wood frogs have already spawned at least once already). A little red back salamander in the black phase appeared on the front porch the other day. And several enormous Vs of geese have gone over lately headed north. And barred owls kick up a ruckus every night. Things are popping! Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Magnolia stellata is beginning to bloom. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From paige@hillkeep.ca Thu Mar 13 15:35:53 2008 Message-Id: <016d01c8853f$0d24ab80$65b41f45@m6u3j5> From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: Sleeping Beauties from South America Ipheons Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:57:44 -0700 > Now that Paige opened the subject on Ipheions That was Rodger Whitlock, Lauw. But I am delighted to hear about your plants. Paige From auchgourishgardens@falsyde.sol.co.uk Thu Mar 13 15:36:27 2008 Message-Id: <01e701c8853f$24126bc0$0501a8c0@homepc> From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 62, Issue 15 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:19:20 -0000 It is very sad to see folk like yourselves so inconvenienced by these creatures who abuse their targets and the systems in place for honourable business communities, and individuals. Personally I already get around 150 + here in Scotland every day, on a 'good' day, some of them are egregiously offensive and disgusting and I don't think of myself as a prude. I get these for my business, our family and also because I am the Shennachie for our Clan to that pop box as well. Somehow the whole system is going to collapse unless ways can be found to curtail all this nonsense. I get stuff here in Japanese, Chinese, Russian, German as well as people trying to operate in English from Hispanic speaking countries and its driving me nuts. Try to keep smiling, but it isn't easy. I think this community is very interesting and while most of the time I am just 'lurking' but I find it fascinating to learn of the different types of bulbous plants folk work with and the highly varied conditions that you all work under, so different for us here in the far north on the other side of the Atlantic. Don't give up. Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 5:22 PM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 62, Issue 15 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Posts to the list from multiple addresses (Mary Sue Ittner) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:40:40 -0700 > From: Mary Sue Ittner > Subject: [pbs] Posts to the list from multiple addresses > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20080313081751.034ff1c8@mail.mcn.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Hi, > > Since this list has been hosted by ibiblio the amount of spam addressed to > it has increased dramatically. As this happens we as administrators > (Arnold, Diane, and me) have tried to cope with it and so has ibiblio. One > of the changes that ibiblio is making as of next week is to discard all > messages that come from addresses not subscribed to the list. In the past > anyone writing to the list who was not subscribed would get a message > telling them their note was not delivered since they were not a member of > the list. Unfortunately the spammers would then send spam to the address > that sent this message and soon the spam to this address was out of > control. > > At first we got all these messages delivered to our email addresses too, > but finally that was too much so they are now held in a place where we can > look at them. When those messages got to be 100s a day, ibiblio started to > filter them as well so the number of those we have to look at has recently > been reduced. If one of those message came from one of you using an > additional email address that was not the one you were subscribed under, > we > could help. Now those messages will just be discarded automatically > without > notice. So if you post to the group and you don't see that it appears, > check first to be sure that you used the same address for the messages you > receive. If you want to be able to post from multiple addresses you need > to > let Arnold, Diane, and me know. We can add the extra addresses as approved > addresses where you won't get messages but can send messages to our list. > A > number of you have already given us extra addresses. > > Messages from people trying to reach members of this list from the > archives > and looking for help we expect to be discarded automatically too. Diane > has > proposed a way we could still see these messages, but we haven't heard > from > ibiblio back to know if this is an alternative. This change will save us > time, especially Diane, but will mean that there are people we will no > longer be able to help. I think back to those early days of the Internet > when you didn't need a firewall, didn't have to worry about viruses or > other evil plans to steal your identity and/or wreck your computer, and > when you didn't receive all kinds of messages you don't want to get. > > Mary sue > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 62, Issue 15 > *********************************** From auchgourishgardens@falsyde.sol.co.uk Thu Mar 13 15:38:22 2008 Message-Id: <01ec01c8853f$8807de30$0501a8c0@homepc> From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 62, Issue 14 ALLIUMS Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:22:08 -0000 ALLIUM WALLICHIII. Would anyone be interested in some seed of Allium wallichii? A lovely plant and not often available. my seed came from the wild originally and this species is very hardy - down to - 25C. I can post seed to a few people, enough to get them started if of interest. Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 3:41 PM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 62, Issue 14 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: pbs] Mark McDonough alliums available (Pacific Rim) > 2. BX 162 (Dennis Szeszko) > 3. Re: BX 162 (Richard) > 4. Sleeping Beauties from South America (totototo@telus.net) > 5. Re: Sleeping Beauties from South America (Mark Mazer) > 6. Fritillaria hybrids (Jane McGary) > 7. Re: Fritillaria hybrids (Robin Hansen) > 8. Re: Sleeping Beauties from South America and double wild > Narcissus (brown.mark) > 9. Re: Sleeping Beauties from South America Ipheons (Lauw de Jager) > 10. Wiki Additions- Hepatica, Narcissus, Leptoceras (Mary Sue Ittner) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:31:49 -0700 > From: "Pacific Rim" > Subject: Re: [pbs] pbs] Mark McDonough alliums available > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Message-ID: <018301c88477$bb3c8760$6db41f45@m6u3j5> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Jerry John Flintoff wrote: > >> ?? Re Allium flavum ssp tauricum ' Lemon Cooler '- as a lover of soft >> yellow tones I don't think I would use the term "acid" to describe such a >> gentle hue.? It is a super plant that I aways look foreward to seeing >> each >> summer. > > We agree on the beauty of the creature, at least. :-)) > > Paige > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:05:55 -0600 > From: "Dennis Szeszko" > Subject: [pbs] BX 162 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: > <9912b0b60803121305q7583321elae13998b6c187f96@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Johannes: > > I will do my best to source seeds of both of these plants for you, but it > will not be until September. I have a few corms of Milla magnifica that I > will be planting in the next few weeks and with some luck they will > produce > copious seed. The other plant that I tentatively have identified as a > Rhodochiton species is growing in my greenhouse and will likely produce > seed, as well. A botanist was going to confirm the identify of this plant > for me and l will be pass along the information to the PBS listserv. > > The other seed that I offered of Tigridia aff. mortonii in BX 162 has been > confirmed by a Tigridia specialist as, indeed, being this species. This > is > a true botanical oddity and the first time that this plant has been > collected in over 85 years. I hope that people who received seeds of > this > species have luck in growing it to flowering size. It is the only known > Tigridia species with red flowers. (Tigridia pavonia has some selected > clones that are red, but in nature it is never this color.) > > >> Message: 9 >> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:02:45 +0100 >> From: johannes-ulrich-urban@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) >> Subject: [pbs] BX 162 >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> Message-ID: <1JYr13-0AD0aM0@fwd24.aul.t-online.de> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Dear All, >> >> >> >> This is an attempt to source one or two of the plants offered as seed at >> the >> end of 2007 in the BX 162, especially a Rhodochiton ? species from Mexico >> and >> perhaps Milla magnifica. I contacted the donor of the seed but he had no >> leftovers neither. I am very interested in these plants and wonder if >> someone >> might have just a few seeds left or if someone would be happy to harvest >> seeds >> for me from plants grown from the BX 162 seeds, especially the >> Rhodochiton. I >> am happy to cover all expenses. I very much hope you do not mind me >> trying >> in >> this rather unusual way. >> >> >> With many thanks and greetings from spring in northern Germany, Uli >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:19:59 -0800 > From: "Richard" > Subject: Re: [pbs] BX 162 > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" > Message-ID: <001101c88486$d3bd9400$96f9b546@richard> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Dennis, > > I received a few seeds of the ?rhodochiton? But so far there is no > germination. I keep them in a greenhouse with a 80 degree minimum temp. > (heat Mat) Any ideas on germination them. It has been a long while. > > The only seed that showed some germination was the Pentstamen. > > Richard > Vista CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Szeszko > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 12:06 PM > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [pbs] BX 162 > > > Johannes: > > I will do my best to source seeds of both of these plants for you, but > it will not be until September. I have a few corms of Milla magnifica > that I will be planting in the next few weeks and with some luck they > will produce copious seed. The other plant that I tentatively have > identified as a Rhodochiton species is growing in my greenhouse and will > likely produce seed, as well. A botanist was going to confirm the > identify of this plant for me and l will be pass along the information > to the PBS listserv. > > The other seed that I offered of Tigridia aff. mortonii in BX 162 has > been confirmed by a Tigridia specialist as, indeed, being this species. > This is a true botanical oddity and the first time that this plant has > been > collected in over 85 years. I hope that people who received seeds of > this > species have luck in growing it to flowering size. It is the only known > Tigridia species with red flowers. (Tigridia pavonia has some selected > clones that are red, but in nature it is never this color.) > > >> Message: 9 >> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:02:45 +0100 >> From: johannes-ulrich-urban@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) >> Subject: [pbs] BX 162 >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> Message-ID: <1JYr13-0AD0aM0@fwd24.aul.t-online.de> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Dear All, >> >> >> >> This is an attempt to source one or two of the plants offered as seed >> at the end of 2007 in the BX 162, especially a Rhodochiton ? species >> from Mexico and >> perhaps Milla magnifica. I contacted the donor of the seed but he had > no >> leftovers neither. I am very interested in these plants and wonder if >> someone >> might have just a few seeds left or if someone would be happy to > harvest >> seeds >> for me from plants grown from the BX 162 seeds, especially the >> Rhodochiton. I >> am happy to cover all expenses. I very much hope you do not mind me > trying >> in >> this rather unusual way. >> >> >> With many thanks and greetings from spring in northern Germany, Uli >> >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:15:26 -0700 > From: totototo@telus.net > Subject: [pbs] Sleeping Beauties from South America > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <20080312211433.2BVADCX203@priv-edtnaa05.telusplanet.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Some years ago, a pot of Beauverdia sellowiana (aka Ipheion > sellowianum, and now considered as Nothoscordum something-or-other) > was exposed to more cold than it could handle. But instead of the > bulbs rotting away, they simply went totally dormant. Every year I'd > inspect the pot, note the absence of new growth, tip it out, and see > endless bulbs just sitting there with no trace of root or top growth. > > The smaller bulblets dwindled in numbers, but the larger ones seemed > to hold their own. > > Someone posted a message here on the PBS mailing list in which they > mentioned using heat to give some sluggish amaryllidaceous plant a > kick in the ribs and wake up to active growth. Following this tip, I > moved my Beauverdia into the house and parked in inside a south- > facing patio door where it got full sun most of the day and the soil > was warmed up well and truly. > > This strategy worked; the Beauverdia soon came back to life and has > thriven to this day, though flowers remain few. > > > This last week I was making the rounds of the coldframes and observed > two other Iphieon-ish bulbs showed only a very few grassy leaves. > These were seedlings of Ipheion 'Alberto Castillo' and Ipheion 'Rolf > Fiedler' (now Tristagma something-or-other). On tipping the pots out, > it was the same story all over again with both of them: plenty of > healthy bulbs, but no roots and no top growth. > > These are now undergoing the patio door treatment and I have my > fingers crossed. I'll give this mailing list a report in a month or > two when the experiment will have failed or succeeded. > > > I wonder how widespread in the Amaryllidaceae this kind of behavior > is. Has anyone else noticed it and, if so, in what species? Or is > this behavior restricted to Ipheion and its close relatives? > > > PS: Ipheion uniflora itself seems immune to cold: flats of seedlings > of 'Froyle Mill' exposed to the full onslaught of winter cold and > rain have plenty of foliage and even some flowers. > > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate > > on beautiful Vancouver Island > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:24:26 -0500 (GMT-05:00) > From: Mark Mazer > Subject: Re: [pbs] Sleeping Beauties from South America > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > <17658291.1205367866948.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >>This strategy worked; the Beauverdia soon came back to life and has >>thriven to this day, though flowers remain few. >> >> >>This last week I was making the rounds of the coldframes and observed >>two other Iphieon-ish bulbs showed only a very few grassy leaves. >>These were seedlings of Ipheion 'Alberto Castillo' > > > I recently moved potted Beauverdia 7 hundred or so miles southward from > Connecticut to North Carolina, keep them to the same minimum winter > temperature, but the bloom and vigor is significantly better here in NC. I > think they may prefer the higher summer temps, or are responding to the > better quality light. > > Ipheion 'Alberto Cstillo' is just going over in the greenhouse, but in the > landscape, they have been in bloom for several weeks now. Will these > become weedy in northeast NC? > > Mark Mazer > Hertford, Norrth Carolina, USA > Zone 7b-8, I think > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:03:06 -0700 > From: Jane McGary > Subject: [pbs] Fritillaria hybrids > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20080312144934.016a5548@pop.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > The fritillarias are getting going well now and I'm having the annual > anxiety of trying to verify their identities. Oh for a monograph! I wish I > were not so intimidated by the thought of posting photos on the PBS > wiki -- > every time I try it, I seem to do it wrong. > > The big surprise today was the first flower in a pot of seedlings of F. > pluriflora, seeds from my own plants. It appears to be a hybrid with the > pollen parent probably being F. striata, which flowers nearby at the same > time. F. pluriflora flowers are held upfacing or at an oblique tilt, > whereas this one has fully pendent flowers like F. striata. The tepals are > slightly reflexed at the tips, like striata but not like pluriflora. It is > deep pink, like pluriflora, but shows the "dotted line" tesselation of F. > striata, and also that species' white style. It does not have the sweet > fragrance typical of striata. I have sent photos to experts for their > opinions. These two species both come from California, but are widely > separated geographically. > > I'm eagerly awaiting the first flowering this year of another plant that I > know is a hybrid, because I made a deliberate cross with pollen of F. > eastwoodiae onto what I think is F. gentneri (or a very large, flaring F. > recurva, which is basically ... gentneri). I did this because I had only > one clone of the latter, so could not get pure seed of it, and was > curious. > F. eastwoodiae itself is sometimes claimed to be a natural hybrid of F. > recurva x F. micrantha, but it is very stable and fertile, and I suspect > it > should be viewed as a good species. > > I've previously written about bee hybrids here between F. biflora and F. > purdyi (both ways), and Ed Rustvold of Berkeley, California, has sent me > material of plants he thinks are this cross. Diana Chapman and I have > apparent hybrids of F. liliacea x F. agrestis that were made by bees here > -- no improvement on the former, unfortunately, as they are green instead > of white and smell bad. > > I prefer to grow wild species, but these garden hybrids are fascinating > too, and the purdyi x biflora cross is both attractive and unusually > robust, probably a better garden plant than the somewhat miffy F. purdyi > but preserving its black-and-white tessellation and shiny surface texture. > It also produces many offsets AND viable seed -- I may see the F2 flower > this year. > > So if you'd like to be a lily breeder and don't have much room, consider > their little cousins. > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon, USA > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:11:29 -0700 > From: "Robin Hansen" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Fritillaria hybrids > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Message-ID: <003d01c884af$8f1b8db0$c7f164d0@homed4aec9b2d8> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > My frits, too, are having their happiest spring in years, think it must be > the prolonged cold we have had here on the coast -- weeks and weeks of it. > > A question for Jane and whoever received Erythronium x multiscapoideum or > ?? Multiscapoideum itself is blooming but there is an erythronium you > thought might be a hybrid, Jane; it is spectacular! The leaf pattern is > quite a bit darker and more defined and the leaves, stems and buds are all > flushed a wonderful rose. It's not quite in bloom yet and I will get > photos as soon as possible. > > Has anyone had this one bloom? And if so, do you have any clues as to > identity? It does seem more vigorous than the species. > > Robin Hansen > Southwest Oregon > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jane McGary > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 3:03 PM > Subject: [pbs] Fritillaria hybrids > > > The fritillarias are getting going well now and I'm having the annual > anxiety of trying to verify their identities. Oh for a monograph! I wish > I > were not so intimidated by the thought of posting photos on the PBS > wiki -- > every time I try it, I seem to do it wrong. > > The big surprise today was the first flower in a pot of seedlings of F. > pluriflora, seeds from my own plants. It appears to be a hybrid with the > pollen parent probably being F. striata, which flowers nearby at the same > time. F. pluriflora flowers are held upfacing or at an oblique tilt, > whereas this one has fully pendent flowers like F. striata. The tepals > are > slightly reflexed at the tips, like striata but not like pluriflora. It > is > deep pink, like pluriflora, but shows the "dotted line" tesselation of F. > striata, and also that species' white style. It does not have the sweet > fragrance typical of striata. I have sent photos to experts for their > opinions. These two species both come from California, but are widely > separated geographically. > > I'm eagerly awaiting the first flowering this year of another plant that > I > know is a hybrid, because I made a deliberate cross with pollen of F. > eastwoodiae onto what I think is F. gentneri (or a very large, flaring F. > recurva, which is basically ... gentneri). I did this because I had only > one clone of the latter, so could not get pure seed of it, and was > curious. > F. eastwoodiae itself is sometimes claimed to be a natural hybrid of F. > recurva x F. micrantha, but it is very stable and fertile, and I suspect > it > should be viewed as a good species. > > I've previously written about bee hybrids here between F. biflora and F. > purdyi (both ways), and Ed Rustvold of Berkeley, California, has sent me > material of plants he thinks are this cross. Diana Chapman and I have > apparent hybrids of F. liliacea x F. agrestis that were made by bees here > -- no improvement on the former, unfortunately, as they are green instead > of white and smell bad. > > I prefer to grow wild species, but these garden hybrids are fascinating > too, and the purdyi x biflora cross is both attractive and unusually > robust, probably a better garden plant than the somewhat miffy F. purdyi > but preserving its black-and-white tessellation and shiny surface > texture. > It also produces many offsets AND viable seed -- I may see the F2 flower > this year. > > So if you'd like to be a lily breeder and don't have much room, consider > their little cousins. > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon, USA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: > 3/12/2008 1:27 PM > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 06:50:18 +0100 > From: "brown.mark" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Sleeping Beauties from South America and double > wild Narcissus > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Message-ID: <003101c884ce$1e70d6a0$6129085a@acer6281efdef1> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > That is strange beacause I nearly lost my Rolf Fiedler through cold until > it > wen't back into the greenhouse which has some minimal heat.Now I have two > pot fulls after going down to one or two bulbs.It is just as you say all > the > baby bulbs died in the freeze.Nothing happened for a year.I nearly gave up > but tipped out the bulbs from thier pot and as there was still a week leaf > or two I persisted.And voil? the result.Wisley blue can cope with much > more > cold.I have lost Charlotte Bishop sadly ,but Alberto Castillio is in the > open garden and flowers whenever it feels like it and the weather is not > too > cold.I must try to get some more clones.I have to get everything from > England which is a drag... > Double clones of Narcissus pseudonarcissus are coming out now.I have seven > or eight diffrent ones.Who else grows or likes these?The woods around here > in Normandy are yellow with them.Sunday I found a pale citron single form > in > the woods by the sea here. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 10:15 PM > Subject: [pbs] Sleeping Beauties from South America > > >> Some years ago, a pot of Beauverdia sellowiana (aka Ipheion >> sellowianum, and now considered as Nothoscordum something-or-other) >> was exposed to more cold than it could handle. But instead of the >> bulbs rotting away, they simply went totally dormant. Every year I'd >> inspect the pot, note the absence of new growth, tip it out, and see >> endless bulbs just sitting there with no trace of root or top growth. >> >> The smaller bulblets dwindled in numbers, but the larger ones seemed >> to hold their own. >> >> Someone posted a message here on the PBS mailing list in which they >> mentioned using heat to give some sluggish amaryllidaceous plant a >> kick in the ribs and wake up to active growth. Following this tip, I >> moved my Beauverdia into the house and parked in inside a south- >> facing patio door where it got full sun most of the day and the soil >> was warmed up well and truly. >> >> This strategy worked; the Beauverdia soon came back to life and has >> thriven to this day, though flowers remain few. >> >> >> This last week I was making the rounds of the coldframes and observed >> two other Iphieon-ish bulbs showed only a very few grassy leaves. >> These were seedlings of Ipheion 'Alberto Castillo' and Ipheion 'Rolf >> Fiedler' (now Tristagma something-or-other). On tipping the pots out, >> it was the same story all over again with both of them: plenty of >> healthy bulbs, but no roots and no top growth. >> >> These are now undergoing the patio door treatment and I have my >> fingers crossed. I'll give this mailing list a report in a month or >> two when the experiment will have failed or succeeded. >> >> >> I wonder how widespread in the Amaryllidaceae this kind of behavior >> is. Has anyone else noticed it and, if so, in what species? Or is >> this behavior restricted to Ipheion and its close relatives? >> >> >> PS: Ipheion uniflora itself seems immune to cold: flats of seedlings >> of 'Froyle Mill' exposed to the full onslaught of winter cold and >> rain have plenty of foliage and even some flowers. >> >> >> >> -- >> Rodger Whitlock >> Victoria, British Columbia, Canada >> Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate >> >> on beautiful Vancouver Island >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:21:53 +0100 > From: Lauw de Jager > Subject: Re: [pbs] Sleeping Beauties from South America Ipheons > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > > Dear listmembers, > Now that Paige opened the subject on Ipheions, I would like report on our > Iphions here in the nursery. All grown outside in the ground and flowering > is now at its best. > Following my Ipheion posting last summer I report on the september 2006 > sowings of: --Alberto Castillo (fairly uniform, but 100% white), > -- Charlotte Bishop (varying from light rose to a nice deep pink), > --Froylemill, (70% deep purple, some with a white centre, some all > purple, > by the way I doubt the identity of Froylemill in the wiki page, the sowing > contains some interesting large pale blue plants, possibly a result of > "Alberto Castillo" pollen?) > --Rolf Fiedler: 100% true > Some list members obtained several lots of 100b of these sowings, it would > be interesting to hear their reports on the flowering. > > Alberto Castillo has sent me some bulbs of a selection "Summerskies", > which > now shows its large blue flowers. It looks like a large improved form of > 'Rolf Fiedler'(I will have a closer look at its bulbs next summer) and is > certainly of future interest. > Next weekend I will put up a series of pictures on the wiki. > Bye for now > > -- Lauw de Jager > Bulb'Argence > South of France (zone 9 (olive trees) > emailto: dejager@bulbargence.com > Site www.bulbargence.com > > > > > Le 12/03/08 22:15, ??totototo@telus.net?? a ?crit?: >> These were seedlings of Ipheion 'Alberto Castillo' and Ipheion 'Rolf >> Fiedler' >> PS: Ipheion uniflora itself seems immune to cold: flats of seedlings >> of 'Froyle Mill' exposed to the full onslaught of winter cold and >> rain have plenty of foliage and even some flowers. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:11:50 -0700 > From: Mary Sue Ittner > Subject: [pbs] Wiki Additions- Hepatica, Narcissus, Leptoceras > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20080313075355.03468680@mail.mcn.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > In the past week there have been these additions: > Hepatica nobilis from Alessandro Marinello > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Hepatica > > Additional Narcissus pictures from Jay Yourch > Additional pictures of 'Elka' and 'Snipe' at a later stage when the cup > color has faded > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MiniatureNarcissus > New pictures of 'Pinza' > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionTwo#Pinza > Add new cultivars 'Toby the First' and 'Wisley' > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionSix > Add Narcissus jonquilla var. henriquesii > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusSpeciesOne#jonquilla > > Another orchid from Australia, Leptoceras menziesii or the Rabbit or Hare > orchid. > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Leptoceras > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 62, Issue 14 > *********************************** From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Thu Mar 13 19:48:28 2008 Message-Id: <000901c88563$458c7ab0$f91f6f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: Fritillaria hybrids Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:37:58 -0700 I grow both forms of E. multiscapoideum, the usual one and the one that used to be called E. cliftonii, which is thought to be a tetraploid. They both grow very near where I used to live in the Sierra foothills. The tetraploid one is much larger and more vigorous, but there are forms in the area that vary a great deal in leaf coloration and vigor. It is a very common species in that part of the world, and you can find many acres in bloom with this wonderful Erythronium. Most do have a pink flush to them, especially in bud, some have it more than others. I really don't think this indicates that it is a hybrid. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs www.telosrarebulbs.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Hansen" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Fritillaria hybrids > My frits, too, are having their happiest spring in years, think it must be > the prolonged cold we have had here on the coast -- weeks and weeks of it. > > A question for Jane and whoever received Erythronium x multiscapoideum or > ?? Multiscapoideum itself is blooming but there is an erythronium you > thought might be a hybrid, Jane; it is spectacular! The leaf pattern is > quite a bit darker and more defined and the leaves, stems and buds are all > flushed a wonderful rose. It's not quite in bloom yet and I will get > photos as soon as possible. > > Has anyone had this one bloom? And if so, do you have any clues as to > identity? It does seem more vigorous than the species. > From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Mar 13 20:26:28 2008 Message-Id: <003a01c8856a$380a3600$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Erythronium multiscapoideum "Cliftoni" was: RE: Fritillaria hybrids Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 20:27:42 -0400 I’m still learning my western North American Erythronium, and Diana Chapman's remark about Erythronium multiscapoideum ‘Cliftoni’ brought back a memory from last year. She wrote: “Most do have a pink flush to them, especially in bud, some have it more than others”. When this plant bloomed here last year for the first time, I thought I was about to see a pink-flowered Erythronium. Nice as it was when in full bloom, I was a bit disappointed that my expectations were ill founded. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 where Tulipa kaufmanniana is about to bloom. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Mar 13 19:33:45 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080313173418.017501e0@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Erythronium hybrids Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:38:54 -0700 Robin Hansen wrote >A question for Jane and whoever received Erythronium x multiscapoideum or >?? Multiscapoideum itself is blooming but there is an erythronium you >thought might be a hybrid, Jane; it is spectacular! The leaf pattern is >quite a bit darker and more defined and the leaves, stems and buds are all >flushed a wonderful rose. It's not quite in bloom yet and I will get >photos as soon as possible. > >Has anyone had this one bloom? And if so, do you have any clues as to >identity? It does seem more vigorous than the species. I'm having a little trouble placing this but it may be from some E. hendersonii x E. oregonum hybrids that I raised from Phyllis Gustafson's cultivated seed. I may have sent some out one summer though I thought I had planted them all in my garden. The ones I have here are quite varied, and there is one particularly good one similar to what Robin is describing. I raise a lot of Erythronium multiscapoideum from seed but haven't noticed any that appear to be hybrids -- which doesn't mean it won't happen. It flowers at the same time as a number of other species, and these bulb frames are a regular orgy pit for the many species of bees and other pollinators here -- and then there are Erythroniums in the garden too. (Some of the fritillarias, especially the later flowering ones, are wasp-pollinated.) Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From hansennursery@coosnet.com Thu Mar 13 21:51:56 2008 Message-Id: <003f01c88575$f4c61830$83f164d0@homed4aec9b2d8> From: "Robin Hansen" Subject: Erythronium multiscapoideum Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 18:51:40 -0700 Thanks, Diana, I will be sure to get some photos this weekend and have a very close look. Robin Hansen Hansen Nursery Southwest Oregon From msittner@mcn.org Fri Mar 14 10:57:29 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080314073020.03070d98@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Cyclamen bloom sequence Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 07:57:03 -0700 Hi, Recently Jim Waddick asked about the Cyclamen bloom sequence. I don't think he got a very complete response and I'm not sure that my experience in Northern California will be very useful since our climates are so different. But I finally had time to look on my data base to see when the ones I grow bloom. I first got interested in this genus when I saw all the lovely ones Bill Dijk had in New Zealand. I'd ordered some from a mail order source before that, but the ones and planted out were not very spectacular. Bill gave me seed and I've been acquiring seed from the NARGS exchange and others and now grow a number of different species. When I look on my data base I see that some species bloom the same time every year and others start earlier or later and some years I'll have plants that bloom much longer than you'd expect them to do and at a different time as well. A lot of the books I have suggest you identify them by when they bloom, but I don't think that would always work. I had a Cyclamen coum (since rotted) bloom one year from August to January and it's supposed to be a winter bloomer. My first attempts to grow these in the ground weren't very successful, but John Lonsdale told me I should be able to grow them in the ground where I live so as they get bigger and growing them in containers gets harder I've been planting them out and am happy to report they are coming back and blooming. They probably still bloom better for me in containers which no doubt has something to do with my low nutrient soil and tendency not to fertilize, but I can still enjoy the leaves. My list below shows times they have bloomed (some years starting earlier and some years ending earlier). Cyclamen hederifolium - July to Nov Cyclamen intaminatum - Jul to, but usually Sep to Oct Cyclamen africanum - Aug to Oct Cyclamen cilicum - Aug to Jan (but not always that long) Cyclamen graecum - Sep to Nov Cyclamen mirable - Sep to Oct Cyclamen elegans - Oct to Dec Cyclamen coum - has bloomed Aug, Sep on but usually Dec-Mar Cyclamen pseuibericum - Jan-Mar Cyclamen repandum - Jan-May, but sometimes doesn't come up until Feb or Mar Cyclamen balearicum - Mar-May Cyclamen creticum - Mar- May Then there is Cyclamen purpurescens that someone said had bloomed year round. It's evergreen and mine bloom off and on, not continuously, but I have had blooms between Jun-Dec This is a genus where you can have a species in bloom most of the year. Mary Sue From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Mar 14 21:00:33 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080314101515.016fba80@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Cyclamen bloom sequence Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:32:49 -0700 Mary Sue mentioned that she had trouble with Cyclamen coum rotting. This surprised me, because it's very wet and significantly colder where I live, and here C. coum is a standard garden subject. Possibly the tubers were damaged by rodents, which introduced rot. It's also surprising that our western American rodents don't feast on our cyclamen, because I think in Europe there are animals that eat the tubers. Regarding the bloom period of this plant, here in Oregon it normally flowers in January through March, but I have had individual plants in containers that bloomed at other times, including one that flowered almost constantly over a year and a half. After I planted it out in the garden, however, it assumed a normal flowering cycle. Adaptability of the various species to outdoor cultivation in the Pacific Northwest falls somewhere between what can be attained in California and in the American Northeast and the UK. Species I have had in the open for several years include hederifolium (a basic ground cover around here), coum, repandum, cilicium (killed in coldest winters), graecum, mirabile, and pseudibericum. The others I grow either in the bulb frame or in a frost-free solarium. The bloom sequence is about as Mary Sue listed it, but the spring-flowering species start later here; for instance, pseudibericum has been in flower for about 3 weeks, and repandum is just emerging. C. purpurascens does not flourish or flower here, and I think it needs a pronounced winter dormancy and perhaps more summer water, since it does so well in colder parts of North America. Yesterday I was admiring the foliage of plants grown from Scottish Rock Garden Club seed under the name C. rhodense, otherwise regarded as a subspecies of C. repandum. The leaves have the usual gray-green "fir tree" zone, but overlying this are random flecks of white as if someone had shaken a paintbrush over the leaves. It's in the bulb frame and I wouldn't risk it outdoors until it produces some seedlings. No one has mentioned C. persicum, the ancestor of the florists' cyclamen, but the wild forms are surprisingly cold-hardy. Those in my bulb frame have survived 20 degrees F (minus 6 C) without damage. It's as easy to grow from seed as other species and should be tried more, because it has wonderfully fragrant flowers, usually very pale pink but large and long-lasting. A friend in Portland, Oregon grew the rare C. rohlfsianum outdoors under Douglas firs, where it enjoyed shelter and dryness and became magnificently large. I'll probably move mine outdoors eventually, since the property I'm buying in the city is badly infested with these trees, some of which are too large to contemplate removing. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Mar 14 21:43:01 2008 Message-Id: <002101c8863e$2ffccc50$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Spring in Maryland Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:45:01 -0400 Spring has “officially” arrived here in my Maryland neighborhood. After a day which brought high temperatures into the 60s F., an early evening shower wet things enough to bring out full choruses of spring peepers, cricket frogs and wood frogs. Barred owls are hooting frequently now. In the garden, Magnolia stellata is wonderfully fragrant even though only a few flowers are fully open. The first waves of garden crocuses, reticulate irises and early squills are all blooming with abundant hellebores. Frits in the frames are surging into growth: in this weather they emerge from the ground buds first and develop very rapidly. I pollinated Tecophilaea cyanocrocus today. Wish me luck – last year my efforts didn’t take. Snowdrops in general are past their prime, but Leucojum vernum carpathicum came into bloom yesterday. Tulipa kaufmanniana opened wide today – as usual, the first tulip of the year here. Last year I left some plants of Kniphofia thomsonii in the ground but in a protected place (in the past, I had dug them and stored the roots in a protected cold frame). I was happy today to see that these have started to push up and grow now. It was a very mild winter here: even some plants of Zephyranthes grandiflora left in the ground are pushing up new growth now. Not bulbous but very nice: loads of sweet violets blooming very fragrantly now. Also not bulbous but interesting: little Hacquetia epipactis is blooming. It reminds me of winter aconite because of the ruff of green bracts which surround the tiny bright yellow flowers ( it’s an umbellifer). Eranthis hyemalis itself is just about over, the hybrid ‘Guinea Gold’ is just starting. Ranunculus ficaria is also blooming. Now to modulate from the major to the minor: my biggest plant of Eremurus robustus, which bloomed spectacularly last year and set lots of seed, does not have an above ground sprout this year. Curious, I dug down to see what was going on. The crown of the plant is there and it’s sound; the thick thong like roots are sound and well embellished with small bright yellow feeder roots. But there is no sign of a sprout. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where Paeonia emodi and P. mascula are well above ground. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From msittner@mcn.org Fri Mar 14 22:18:06 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080314185334.03471db0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Cyclamen bloom sequence Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:05:52 -0700 I didn't mean to imply that Cyclamen coum usually rots for me. It was just that one plant that bloomed so long in the past that died. I actually have C. coum coming up all over the garden. The most surprising one in growing in a very deep pot in a raised bed with a Brunsvigia where it gets full sun and has been blooming reliably for a long time in winter for several years even though the Brunsvigia has yet to bloom. I'm don't think C. purpurascens is as happy here as the other species. I only was successful in germinating two from a batch of seed and several years they have developed spider mites. I water them in summer, but expose them to the elements in winter so I don't think it's excessive water in winter that does them in. I expect they would get too dry in summer in my garden. I repotted them last year mid summer and they responded well to that. I think it helped with the spider mite infestation to start over with new soil. I've not had much success with C. rohlfsianum, but I have a number of Cyclamen persicum that I expect to be blooming size this year. Mary Sue From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Sat Mar 15 02:30:56 2008 Message-Id: <6eq1ke$5nrfr6@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out4.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: Cyclamen bloom sequence Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:27:45 +1100 > >C. purpurascens does not flourish or flower here, and I think it needs a >pronounced winter dormancy and perhaps more summer water, since it does so >well in colder parts of North America. Jane, If anything, I'd say it tends towards a spring dormancy, not winter. Some of my purpurascens are evergreen and can flower pretty much any time they want, but there is a distinct thinning of the leaves on most of them after it warms up in spring, not in the cold of winter. It definitely does like summer watering, as it is in growth again then after it's spring quieter time. Some of mine actually completely lose their leaves in spring, but there are usually at least a couple of leaves on even then. They all have full leaves in winter though. I am just mentioning this in case people try to force their dormant in winter. I realise I have comparatively warm winters (down to -8 or -9'C) but with those temperatures (the purpurascens are not coddled in any way, just left out in their pots through winter) that is how they behave for me. Cheers. Paul T. Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Galanthus, Irises, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! From toadlily@olywa.net Sat Mar 15 03:00:27 2008 Message-Id: <47DB740B.1060901@olywa.net> From: Laura & Dave Subject: Cyclamen bloom sequence and Thanks! Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 00:00:27 -0700 Now it's my turn to be surprised! Jane McGary wrote that C. purpurascens doesn't "flourish or flower" for her. I live about 120 miles to the north, although at a lower elevation, and have several different seed raised accessions flower and thrive. They are in a raised bed, in afternoon shade with no protection from the elements other than that partially provided by the outer branches of two large trees (one pine, one Douglas Fir). I don't let the bed dry out completely, as other plants need the summer moisture (Eastern Trillium, young Western Erythronium and several clumps of Clintonia andrewsiana). The Cyclamen go dormant for about a month in mid to late summer, then announce their reappearance with a wonderful fragrance. I also grow C hederifolium, cilicium, coum, repandum, graecum, pseudibericum and intaminatum outdoors. The C. hederifolium and cilicum bloom in early fall, just after the purpurascens. Various clones of Cyclamen coum iare fowering here from late January thru March. The other species are either too young to bloom (pseudibericum and intaminatum, or I haven't quite got them figured out yet (repandum and graecum). I have several more species and subspecies in my window box/cold frame, but the only one old enough to bloom is C. creticum, which has been in flower for since the last week of February. I think this would be a great time to again offer thanks to all of you who have donated seeds to the Bx! Some of these Cyclamen, and a whole host of other species in many genera are flowering this year for the first time, many after a 3, 4 or 5 year wait. To say that I'm thrilled by each new appearance simply doesn't do it justice. With good luck and cooperative growing conditions, I should be able to return more seed for plants I was lucky enough to receive, but that others may still want. Dave Brastow Tumwater, Washington - 7A From LucGBulot@aol.com Sat Mar 15 05:54:29 2008 Message-Id: <8CA549538D0E016-1500-2233@WEBMAIL-MC01.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Cyclamen bloom sequence in SE France Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 05:22:28 -0400 Dear all, I grow Cyclamen heredifolium, C. cilicium, C. persicum and C. coum. The blooming sequence here is as follow : C. heredifolium - Late August to mid-September C. cilicium : mid September to mid October C. persicum : late December to mid March (depending on the clones) C. coum : late January to mid March I have introduced Cyclamen graecum, Cyclamen graecum album and Cyclamen graecum anatolicum this year and will have to wait to see when they bloom. Take care, Luc From rherold@yahoo.com Sat Mar 15 11:00:57 2008 Message-Id: <47DBE3F1.4080304@yahoo.com> From: Roy Herold Subject: Cyclamen bloom sequence Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 10:57:53 -0400 One species missing from the bloom sequence list is C. rohlfsianum. For me, they start to bloom right after the graecums, in late September and early October. I leave them outside in pots until the first frost, and shuttle them inside and outside for a few weeks before the final transfer to the cool greenhouse. I'm sure that the bloom time could be moved backwards or forwards depending on when they get their first watering. Mine bloom moderately well, with a couple of dozen flowers (not all at once) on each plant, but nowhere as spectacular as the ones pictured in the AGS or SRGC bulletins. I think my leaves are as good or better, however. Each plant has distinct leaves (and flowers), and if you didn't know better you'd swear they were different species. My four (or is it five) 'mother' rohlfsianums take up far too much room in the greenhouse, but are well worth it. They are a bit crowded in 8 to 10 inch pots, but seem happy. My policy has been to leave them in the same pot until it splits, which doesn't take all that long. Dry out completely in the summer, start watering again on Labor Day (first week of Sept). The tubers are decidedly irregular, with widely separated growing points, and unlike most other cyclamen can be divided with a well placed cut. Not recommended for the faint of heart... --Roy NW of Boston, where the snow is changing to rain, and C. balearicum is just starting to bloom in the greenhouse. Jane McGary wrote: > > A friend in Portland, Oregon grew the rare C. rohlfsianum outdoors under > Douglas firs, where it enjoyed shelter and dryness and became magnificently > large. I'll probably move mine outdoors eventually, since the property I'm > buying in the city is badly infested with these trees, some of which are > too large to contemplate removing. > From adam14113@ameritech.net Sat Mar 15 15:08:29 2008 Message-Id: <002001c886cf$f2cbe4a0$52ec8f47@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Tecophilea cyanocrocus Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 14:08:26 -0500 Hello Jim, and others . I don't know this plant, but given the fact that you had problems pollinating it last year, I'd do it again this year, using new pollen on an old flower and vs.vs, to take advantage of any built-in discrepancy that would ordinarily foil self-pollination. If it doesn't work again this year, I'd try a 1% solution of 2-4D into the center of the flower as an assist (which can work with other difficult plants). Another gimmick is a .01% sol'n of boric acid, yes, that's very weak, delivered to the stigma, or one's own saliva as a moistening agent. All three methods have their adherents in the lore of hybridizers. Only one published article about 50 yrs. ago, which I can't designate for you or steer you to. From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sat Mar 15 15:51:33 2008 Message-Id: <000c01c886d5$d6eea820$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: A very unusual crocus Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:50:35 -0400 After a good meeting of our local rock garden group (and later on I’ll post something of interest from that meeting) I got home to find the garden basking in the warmish sun. Things are popping right and left. If you’re still waiting for piles of dirty snow to melt or are shivering in the cold under cloudy skies, let me point out that my cheery description hides a little problem. Yes, things are quickly coming into bloom right and left. But yes, things are going over just as fast. Several years ago a friend handed me a tiny bag of crocus corms: he described them as from the “little purple one you see in lawns”. Around here, the little purple ones you see in lawns is Crocus tommasinisnus. This particular group was in full bloom earlier this week, but by now most of the blooms are pretty ragged. While looking at them this morning, I spotted on which had very narrow tepals. The tepals of some crocuses do roll that way before they finally collapse. But then I took a closer look: what’s this? This crocus had six anthers! Of course it was not a crocus, it was a Colchicum of the Merendera sort. The size and color of the flower matched those of the little tommies so well that I’m surprised I even noticed it. Which one is it? It was growing right up through one of my labels. The label said Colchicum ‘Lilac Bedder’. Hmmmmm…… I have the vague recollection that Colchicum trigynum was planted nearby once. Maybe… Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where trilliums are suddenly up and unfurling their leaves. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sat Mar 15 15:54:05 2008 Message-Id: <000d01c886d6$18bafc90$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Tecophilaea cyanocrocus Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:52:26 -0400 Thanks, Adam. When I raised this issue last year, several more experienced growers chimed in with suggestions. I’m more optimistic about success this year. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sat Mar 15 16:14:54 2008 Message-Id: <001201c886d6$c533aa80$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: frog song Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:57:15 -0400 My analysis of the local batrachian chorus yesterday was somewhat in error. Yes, there were peepers and wood frogs. But it has been pointed out to me that what I then thought were cricket frogs are in fact southeastern chorus frogs. Well, I got the chorus part right. The first of the warblers should be arriving very soon: I’ll have to get out the warbler song recordings to re-calibrate my ear in time for the beginning of the season. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jlongane@hotmail.com Sat Mar 15 16:44:48 2008 Message-Id: From: "John Longanecker" Subject: FYI: Climate info participation Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 13:06:03 -0700 Hello: This may be old news to most, but I just discovered this registry for documentatin of variances in local plant growth patterns over time and in various geographical locations: Project Budburst- A National Phenology Network Field Campaign for Citizen Scientists: http://www.windows.ucar.edu/citizen_science/budburst/ John Longanecker, Placerville Ca. 2240' Zone 7 Banana Belt- today with thunder, hail, snow and sun. From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sat Mar 15 17:15:32 2008 Message-Id: <001701c886db$955785c0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Paeonia 'Chameleon' and Roy Klehm on rock garden peonies Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 16:31:42 -0400 Roy Klehm spoke to our local rock garden group this morning on rock garden peonies. That was only a tiny part of the morning. He gives a very good presentation covering many aspects of the peony phenomenon. This was not one of those presentations where one endures two hours of close ups of flowers. His material was nicely balanced and took into consideration hybridizing, the history of peony hybridizing, propagation, some aspects of the business angles, nursery management, and of course a nice look at a wide spectrum of peonies. When the presentation was over, out came a big cardboard box which contained the peonies which were then distributed to audience members. These were some of the cultivars described in his catalog as rock garden peonies. There are about a dozen very happy rock gardeners here in the greater Washington, D.C. area today! And no doubt there will soon be several dozen more who are not so happy when they find out what they missed because they did not attend the meeting. I learned something interesting which touches on something we discussed on this forum last year in early March. It all began when Lola asked a question about the germination of peony seed obtained through one of the exchanges under the name Chameleon. What I knew then is that there is a validly published name Paeonia × chameleon Troitsky (1930) ex Grossg (although I'm still suspicious about the spelling). That name is applied to the wild hybrid between P. caucasica (P. mascula triternata) and P. wittmanniana. As it turns out, I now know that there is also a peony cultivar named 'Chameleon'. I don't think this cultivated plant has any connection to the wild hybrid mentioned above. Check the Klehm catalog for the picture of 'Chameleon'. These chameleons might not be able to change their color, but some of them might have to change their labels! Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where I can already count the buds on some of the tree peonies. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sat Mar 15 17:51:32 2008 Message-Id: <001801c886e3$5e725af0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Dutch crocus Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:27:26 -0400 The big Dutch crocus are blooming in the garden today, and as I go from clump to clump I find myself really blown away with just how beautiful they are. I realize that in the past there has been a tendency on the part of some participants of this forum to look down on the big Dutch crocus. But when I see these flowers in their fresh perfection, it’s hard for me to understand why anyone would not like them. And you certainly get your money’s worth with these. Some of the flowers I admired today, some huge white-flowered sorts, have been in place for decades. Thirty or thirty-five years ago I planted a thousand corms in the front lawn. Over the years, part of what used to be lawn became beds for perennials. The crocus in the lawn disappeared long ago, but those in the spaces which became beds for perennials have persisted handsomely. Looking at them all today, I could not decide if I liked best the solid purples, the striped ones or the white ones. There are several purples here and at least two distinct striped ones; the whites are perhaps all the same. The flowers are as large as those of small tulips, and on these first few days of blooming they are wonderfully fresh and beautiful. The purple ones are so glossy - they look as if they had been lacquered. The whites could be Colchicum speciosum ‘Album’. I think the two striped ones here are Pickwick and King of the Striped. Pickwick is striped on all tepals, the King only on alternate petals (although the color pattern in this one seems unstable). Everything about them is so smart and crisp! Also blooming are plants of my old stock ‘Vanguard’. This is another favorite. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Sun Mar 16 00:45:31 2008 Message-Id: <001801c88720$8697fcf0$0202a8c0@DAVE1> From: "David Fenwick Snr." Subject: With sad regret Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 04:45:11 -0000 Dear All, and especially to those, and friends around the world that know me, Firstly I would like to say I am OK and in great spirits, and I apologise for not contributing of late but the last few years have not been good, and a few of you, members of the PBS or IBS will know this, probably more, as I know how word of mouth spreads in confined circles. However, this mail is to let everyone know what my circumstances are exactly and to dispel any rumour. Those who do not know me may be aware of my website "The African Garden", www.theafricangarden.com, and here I must state that the site will continue to provide information and images on/of South African Bulbs; but in the future will be sponsored by Trecanna Nurseries (Cornwall, UK), www.trecanna.co.uk, who specialise in Crocosmia and Eucomis; and by Cameron and Rhoda McMaster, www.africanbulbs.com, and I consider to be privileged to be their webmaster and web designer. My arrangement with these people is not one of profit but a way of keeping the site on the web for the continuing provision of information. However, it will sadly and no longer be dedicated to my garden; but dedicated to the culture, the photography and the marketing of South African Bulbs in general. Hence, where to obtain them, how to grow them, and how to see them growing in the wild, and I'd think you'd all agree that this will be of benefit to you all. Obviously the nature of the site will change but the site will continue to provide both accurate images and information in a somewhat basic and honest style some of you have come to expect from me. Sadly I am now able to publicly state that I have had to give up all 5 of my NCCPG National Plant Collections of South African Bulbs in recent months. For those of you who do not know me or are unfamiliar with my name the genera I collected include, Crocosmia with Chasmanthe, Tulbaghia, Amaryllis (genus and intergeneric hybrids), Eucomis with Galtonia and Freesia (Anomatheca Group). The reason for giving up these collections is due to arthritis as I have it in both my knees and my hands. My doctor has stated this is primarily due to my career as I have been a professional horticulturalist for over 25 years, I am now 42. Yes, it was a hard decision to make but you kind of know when you physically have to make a change for the better in the UK climate, and it was taken with a lot of thought for my future health and yes, health has to come first. I'm afraid it is the cultivation aspects of keeping the collections that hinder me, but of course you don't give up being am ambassador for South African Bulbs that easily, and like I have always done, I will continue to advise those with a similar interest, and businesses, in our pursuit and continue to be an ambassador for our hobby, which to some, like me, has become / became somewhat of an obsession. Very sadly I must also add that my wife Colleen and I are in the process of divorce and I will, in the next few weeks be moving away, and to a house where there is little garden, but I am not worried about this, it is kind of a refreshing change. I must add, this happened after my decision to give up my collections, our relationship had not been good for a number of years. I must also add that all my important bulbs have been given very good homes and will continue to increase the diversity of bulbs held in cultivation through the NCCPG Plant Cultivation Scheme here in the UK, although I must add the Tulbaghia collection has been sold in its entirety, to a commercial nursery in Holland, but this nursery will continue both research and the development of this up and coming genus. I must also add that the Amaryllis collection has been sold in its entirety to Andrew Houghton, UK collection holder of the genus Hippeastrum, and I am absolutely sure it cannot be in better hands (Bill W., if your reading this, I am keeping one of your bulbs though). This only leaves me to thanks all those who have helped me develop my bulb collections and be mentors over the years, the list of people is obviously endless but if I could be permitted to name a few I would add the following and I am truly very sorry if your name is not included. Jim Lykos, Dirk Wallace, Dash and Rob (Australia); Bill and David (NZ); Rhoda and Cameron McMaster, Rod and Rachel Saunders, Jaco and Dawie (South Africa); Dr. John Grimshaw, Dr. Marion Wood, Diane Rowe, Harry Hay, Dick Fulcher and especially Pete Wallin and Bill Simpson (UK); Dr. Canio Vosa (Italy), Lindsay Bolden (Barbados); John Bryan, Karl King, Bill the Bulb Barron of Carmel, Roy Sachs, Mary Sue Ittner, Cathy and Diane, and because he's as mad as myself Tony Avent, and because I also want several tee-shirts from him and I like his style (USA); and to, in my opinion the best commercial bulb grower in Europe, perhaps the world, (Lauw de Jager of France), for producing some of the best bulbs I have ever seen. But with great sadness I have to add Les Hannibal, Dr. Jack Elliott and Terry Jones of Zeal Monochorum, and my dad to this list. I'll be around in the background but I just wanted to update you all on what's happening and to formally thank certain individuals for their help. Thank you. Dave Fenwick David Fenwick Snr. The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens, Estover, Plymouth, Devon. England. PL6 8TW Tel: 44 (0)1752 301402 Websites The African Garden www.theafricangarden.com Wildflowers of the Devon and Cornwall Peninsula www.aphotoflora.com Wildlife of the Devon and Cornwall Peninsula www.aphotofauna.com Fungi of the Devon and Cornwall Peninsula www.aphotofungi.com Johnson's Creek - Manor Park www.johnsonscreek.co.uk From profloran@adelphia.net Sun Mar 16 01:11:25 2008 Message-Id: <43F0E68F-E044-4FC7-A7BD-B76892F9F767@adelphia.net> From: Dan Tyson Subject: Cal-Sibe Iris Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 22:11:22 -0700 I recently found a single cultivar of what is advertised to be a cross between a Chinese Siberian Iris and a Pacific Coast Iris. It's offered by McClure-Zimmerman. They call their selection "Pacific-Siberian Cascade Velvet". Is this a Cal-Sibe iris? If so, (or if not) I couldn't find much in searching the web for more information on this type of iris. Anyone have experience or some knowledge of these? They sound interesting. Or did the promise not really turn out to be rewarding? Dan From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun Mar 16 12:45:32 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Peony Chameleons Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 11:19:50 -0500 Dear Jim and all, Yes there are two "chameleons' in the peony garden. The first is P. x chameleon Troitsky ex Grossheim, Flora Kavkaza 2: 92 (1930) a hybrid of P. daurica x P. mlokosewtschii. This is discussed briefly in 'The Genus Paeonia' (Halda & Waddick, 2004, Timber Press). According to Hong D-Y's newest views on this complex, both of these earlier species would now just be considered local forms of P. daurica. You can read some of the back ground at Paige Woodward's web site on peonies. Just scroll down to P. daurica at http://www.hillkeep.ca/ts%20paeonia.htm The second is a cultivar unfortunately named 'Chameleon' by Kreckler/Klehm (2001) can be seen at the Song Sparrow Nursery web site http://www.songsparrow.com/2008new/plantdetails.cfm?ID=286&type=ROCK,&pagetype=plantdetails I say unfortunate, because a registrar should not really accept a second name that is identical to one already used in the genus and easily confused in the literature and by growers. You can also see more info about both names on Carsten Burkhardt's remarkable site devoted peonies at http://paeo.de/navigation/name_ch.html and clicking on both chameleons there. And the peonies are starting to show some life this spring, here, too. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun Mar 16 12:45:26 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Cal-Sibe Iris Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 11:45:21 -0500 Dear Dan and all, The Cal-Sibes or Calsibe are a valid and growing group of hybrids. They are formed by the cross between a Pacific Coast Native iris (PCN) (all of which have 40 chromosomes) and a Siberian Iris with 40 chromosomes, the Sinosiberian sub-group. There are dozens of these named cultivars. One of the most influential hybridizers is Dr. Tomas Tamberg ( see http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.gds-iris-fachgruppe.homepage.t-online.de/irisfg056.htm&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=13&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dcalsibe%2Biris%26num%3D100%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den-us%26pwst%3D1) and others in the US such as Jean Witt and Lorena Reid come to mind. You can see quite a few at http://www.tamberg.homepage.t-online.de/homep9e.htm and scroll down to click to other pages including back crosses called 'Sibcal hybrids'. They do best in areas where the PCNs and Sino-siberian do well, but some of the hybrids are more widely adaptable than either parent. Try some. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun Mar 16 13:01:17 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Further on Dr. Tamberg Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:01:27 -0500 Dear Freinds, I fear I may have short changed the many accomplishments of Tomas Tamberg by failing to mention the amazing width and depth of his iris crosses. Nothing short of amazing. He has produced hybrids previously thought impossible including PCNs, all kinds of Siberian Irises and various less well known species such as I lactea, I. foetidissima, I. setosa, I laevigata and the list goes on. His efforts have been rewarded by both the American and British Iris Societies. Many of his startling creations are available from American nurseries and abroad. If you are seeking something noteworthy for the garden I recommend you seek out other of his productions, not just his Cal-Sibes. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sun Mar 16 13:00:26 2008 Message-Id: <000601c88787$84bc8060$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Peony Chameleons Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 13:02:27 -0400 Thank you, Jim Waddick, for inadvertently answering a question which has been bugging me ever since this issue arose. You see, there are really NOT two peonies named Chameleon/chameleon. The Krekler/Klehm hybrid is Paeonia 'Chameleon'. The other entity is Paeonia x chamaeleon Troitsky ex Grossheim. Note the difference in spelling: the garden peony is named with the American spelling Chameleon. The Troitsky ex Grossheim entity is spelled (as you would expect from a non-American) chamaeleon. Until I followed your link to Carsten Burkhardt's site, I only suspected this spelling difference, but it made me very happy to see it confirmed at his site. So really there is no need to change either name because they are not really the same. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where it is still so cold at 1 P.M. that the crocus have not opened. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From dells@voicenet.com Sun Mar 16 13:14:59 2008 Message-Id: <20080316171458.ACEA04C00F@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Gladiolus cultivation Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 13:14:06 -0400 Dear All, A number of gladiolus species were offered on the PBS 2008 Clearance Sale and on BX 166. I have been looking at photos of Glad. species on our wiki and in various books in my library and am amazed at their beauty and variety. I think that they are much more beautiful than the common gladiolus hybrids that we see so often. I would like to try to grow some of them - actually, all of them - but I don't know quite where to begin. Would any of you who have had success with this genus be so kind as to share some cultivation tips with the rest of us? Happy Spring, Dell In SE PA, Zone 6/7; where galanthus, eranthis, crocus, narcissus, and Iris reticulata are in profuse bloom even before forsythia has started! Indoors, hippeastrums have started - H. papilio has just finished - and Bulbine frutescens, a pleasant discovery that is not, strictly speaking, a geophyte, has been in charming, bright yellow, wildflower bloom in the greenhouse for at least two months. From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sun Mar 16 13:17:06 2008 Message-Id: <000701c88789$d69cd1d0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Colchicum soboliferum/Merendera sobolifera Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 13:19:04 -0400 Yesterday I reported the flowering of an odd little plant which was obviously a Colchicum of the Mernedera sort. At that time I though it might be C. trigynum (M. trigyna). Today that little plant did something new, and in doing so provided a near certain clue as to its identity. When I went out to look at it today, the flower had fallen over and seemed to be falling apart. When I got down on my hands and knees and looked closely, I saw something very strange: the tepals of the flower were connected only at what yesterday was their base; the seeming tube below the flower had seemingly shredded into threads of tissue still connected at both the flower end and the bulb end. Now I knew I was on to something, Instinctively, I gently pulled the tepals apart – and with a slight tug they came apart, still attached to the long thread which connected them to their bulb. At this point I knew what I had: it’s Colchicum sololiferum (Merendera sobolifera), a late-winter/spring blooming species which has little hooks which keep the tepals together at the point where they reflex into the open flower. In typical Merendera fashion, these tepals have no tube above the ovary. However, this species seems to have rethought the family plan and devised a way of temporarily having a tube: the little hooks keep the tepals together when the flower first opens. So today instead of a two inch flower which looks like a skinny-tepaled crocus about to go over, I have a form less tangle of three inch threads flopping on the ground. It’s no beauty, but it’s certainly interesting. My only regret is that I did not photograph the hooks before I unhooked it. I’m still not sure how it got where it is, although when newly received the corm was a three pronged affair which suggested a cluster of Gloriosa corms – these are obviously built for travel underground. Gloriosa by the way is a close Colchicum relative. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where last night in the rain there must have been thousands of spring peepers calling: en masse they sound oddly like sleigh bells. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From eez55@earthlink.net Sun Mar 16 14:04:29 2008 Message-Id: <380-22008301618349187@earthlink.net> From: "Eugene Zielinski" Subject: Gladiolus cultivation Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:03:49 -0400 I'm not a fan of "Me, too" messages, but regarding this message on species Gladiolus, I must say "Me, too!" I've been interested in the summer growing species since I've joined this group, but I've had little luck growing them from seed. The seeds germinate readily enough, but the seedlings stay small, and I ultimately lose them. The exceptions seem to be Gladiolus dalenii, which I have seen growing along the road here (a brownish maroon form, not too showy) and in Savannah, and G. callianthus (Acidanthera). Dell -- if you don't have a copy of Goldblatt and Manning's Gladiolus in Southern Africa, get one (as long as you don't mind spending the money.) Goldblatt's Gladiolus in Tropical Africa isn't as impressive, but is still worthwhile. It may still be available from Edward R. Hamilton, Bookseller at a ridiculously low price ($4?) And while I'm talking about Iridaceae, I'll mention that the pure white Iris albicans is in full bloom. Spring is here. Gene Eugene Zielinski Augusta, GA USA > [Original Message] > From: Dell Sherk > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Date: 3/16/2008 1:14:58 PM > Subject: [pbs] Gladiolus cultivation > > Dear All, > > > > A number of gladiolus species were offered on the PBS 2008 Clearance > Sale and on BX 166. I have been looking at photos of Glad. species on our > wiki and in various books in my library and am amazed at their beauty and > variety. I think that they are much more beautiful than the common gladiolus > hybrids that we see so often. I would like to try to grow some of them - > actually, all of them - but I don't know quite where to begin. Would any of > you who have had success with this genus be so kind as to share some > cultivation tips with the rest of us? > > > > Happy Spring, > > Dell > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun Mar 16 14:18:05 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Peony Chameleons - problem Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 13:17:55 -0500 >Until I followed your link to Carsten Burkhardt's site, I only suspected >this spelling difference, but it made me very happy to see it confirmed at >his site. > >So really there is no need to change either name because they are not really >the same. Dear Jim, I disagree completely. Although I did present a typo (knew the spelling difference as seen in the book), a conscientious registrar should never accept a second name that will cause confusion of any sort. Combine my bad typing, with any one's pronunciation of the two words and you have a real problem - one you first raised about the relationship between these two plants. The ICNCP* would not approve. There isn't much we can do about except complain and point out the difference. Best Jim W. * Int. Code for Names of Cultivated Plants -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sun Mar 16 14:54:48 2008 Message-Id: <000f01c88796$fae2a260$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Peony Chameleons - problem Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:53:08 -0400 Actually Jim, I’m inclined to say that this is one of those situations where we will simply have to agree to disagree. To begin with, when each name is properly cited there is minimal chance of confusion. The name of the cultivar would be written in single quotes and without italics, as Peony ‘Chameleon’ or Paeonia ‘Chameleon’. That other entity would be written Paeonia x chamaeleon Troitsky ex Grossheim or Paeonia x chamaeleon. [I typed this message as an html document, with italics; if my italics do not survive into the version posted, much of the sense of this message will be obscured.] There is no way to prevent people from formatting the names incorrectly and becoming confused. The registrars of the world can be as careful as their task requires them to be, but it’s human nature for us to mess these things up. Furthermore, careful speakers pronounce the words chameleon and chamaeleon differently. For me, the clincher would be the high degree of improbability that these two names would be found in the same discussion outside of the sort of recherché discussion we’re having now. These words exist in different worlds, and the sort of person who enters the more formal world of botanical nomenclature is likely to be the sort of person who knows the difference. I don’t see a problem with maintaining both names. Indeed, it’s a good training example for people learning the differences among the various sorts of nomenclature we use. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From dejager@bulbargence.com Sun Mar 16 17:23:34 2008 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Gladiolus cultivation Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 22:21:47 +0100 Hello Dell, The easyist ones here are: G. italicus, communis, tristis, undulatus, splendens, carneus (all wintergrowers) The best summergrower is G dalenii. Now I noticed that you are in Zone 6-7. My references might not apply to you. Greetings -- Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence South of France (zone 9 (olive trees) emailto: dejager@bulbargence.com Site www.bulbargence.com Le 16/03/08 18:14, « Dell Sherk » a écrit : > Would any of > you who have had success with this genus be so kind as to share some > cultivation tips with the rest of us? From hornig@earthlink.net Sun Mar 16 17:43:15 2008 Message-Id: From: "Ellen Hornig" Subject: Gladiolus cultivation Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:46:08 -0400 Gladiolus oppositiflorus subs. salmoneus, G. saundersii, and various dalenii types (old "primulinus hybrid" sorts: 'Boone', 'Carolina Primrose', southern "parrot glads" and some unnamed salvaged ones I have) have done fine here in the gound for a long time. G. saundersii does particularly well in the hottest, sunniest, best-drained area I have (remember, this is northern NY); in SA it turns out to be quite widespread in the Drakensberg, and we also saw plenty of it in Lesotho. It often turns up in disturbed soils (fields w/crops). In Lesotho, we were joined by a kid (well, 15 years old or so) who told me G. saundersii was edible, and promptly stripped one of its reproductive parts and ate the petals. I tried some, and it was really quite tasty: lke lettuce, but sweet. If you're into edible flowers, this would be a whole lot showier on your salad than a nasturtium... Ellen Ellen Hornig Seneca Hill Perennials 3712 County Route 57 Oswego NY 13126 USA www.senecahillperennials.com Le 16/03/08 18:14, « Dell Sherk » a écrit : > Would any of > you who have had success with this genus be so kind as to share some > cultivation tips with the rest of us? _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From voltaire@islandnet.com Sun Mar 16 18:17:39 2008 Message-Id: <9458E94E-D66C-45D0-99C3-2E9FCDDC3CD4@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Gladiolus cultivation Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 15:09:48 -0700 Cornucopia II lists two edible Gladiolus, but I don't have enough to eat, and besides, I always want the flowers to produce seeds. I guess one could carefully snip the petals and leave the seedmaking parts intact. G. dalenii, Khahla-ea-kholo the anthers are removed and the flowers are eaten raw as a salad or used as a potherb. Children suck the copious nectar. G. italicus, Salepotu corms are added to ice cream and other dairy products as salep is. Dalenii does grow outside here, and papilio spreads well, but not enough to be considered a weed. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From miller7398@comcast.net Sun Mar 16 21:31:47 2008 Message-Id: <006701c887cd$38de0920$3f39734c@tapa965> From: "Joyce Miller" Subject: Gladiolus cultivation Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18:21:26 -0700 Hi Dell, The most important thing about growing glads from seed is that they require a ten degree differential between day and night temperatures. The second thing is to learn which are summer and which are winter growers. Winter growers do not do well here in Gresham, Oregon with our heavy rains which total about 48 inches annually. Best, Joyce Miller, Gresham, OR From dejager@bulbargence.com Mon Mar 17 02:41:13 2008 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Vistit Alan McMurtry Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 07:41:09 +0100 Dear All , Last Saturday I had a visit of Allen Mcmurtry from Canada (Ontario), acompanied by Maurice Boussard. He is specialising in reticulata Irises. It seems that there still is snow in Ontaario, but this Iris seems to do well in this circumstances. He is convinced tht one day thre will be an orange I reticulata. Something to look forward to. Here is his website http://www.reticulatas.com. Kind greetings -- Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence South of France (zone 9 (olive trees) emailto: dejager@bulbargence.com Site www.bulbargence.com From msittner@mcn.org Mon Mar 17 11:06:37 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080317073844.03410d20@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Gladiolus cultivation Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 08:06:07 -0700 Dear Dell, As you can see from some of the responses you have gotten there is a wide difference in which Gladiolus can be grown successfully outside depending on where you live. There are tropical species and there are species that are covered with snow in winter. There are species that have rainfall year round and some that get most of their rain in winter or summer. There are species subjected to hot temperatures in summer and species where the temperatures are mild year round. There are species that occur where the rainfall is very low (and I suspect some years when rainfall is so low don't even show up) and species growing where there is abundant rainfall during their growing season. Throw in the different kinds of soil they grow in and it becomes even more complex. So to grow these successfully it may first have to do with choosing the right species for your conditions. A species that has naturalized for me, Gladiolus carmineus, is described as growing very close to the ocean as I do. I've shared it with my friend Bob Werra who lives two hours away and inland and he does not have the same success. Joyce's comment that winter growers don't do well where she lives in Gresham, Oregon may not have to do with the rainfall, but with the temperatures where she lives or with species selection. There are southwest Cape species that get more rainfall than she gets and I can grow many winter rainfall species successfully and my annual winter rainfall is greater than the amount she gets. Where I live we have a big problem with thrips that turn the leaves of many of the native plants silver in summer. (not an attractive silver). I might be able to grow summer rainfall species if I wanted to keep them dry in winter and water them in summer, but then I'd have to contend with the thrips which don't usually bother the winter growers. I've found a lot of the species I grow are happy in my raised beds growing in 9 to 10 inch deep pots. I've not always had success in germinating seed, but Diane Whitehead shared her technique with me and I did some tests with some seed I had a lot of and in the future am going to switch to her method. I'll leave it up to her to share it. I'm in the process of expanding the Southern Africa Gladiolus pages on the wiki and adding a lot more pictures (going from 4 pages to 9) of current species and adding some new species as well. I've worked on it a little every day for quite a few weeks now and I'm almost ready to add all this to the wiki. It's interesting that this corresponds with the current thread. Mary Sue From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Mar 17 15:06:31 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Peony Chameleons - problem Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:56:43 -0500 >Actually Jim, I’m inclined to say that this is one of those situations where >we will simply have to agree to disagree. Dear Jim and All, I thought I'd just ignore this, but will make a response, probably against my better judgement. Jim, I do not agree to disagree at all, because mostly I am right and mostly you are wrong. Both names are in the same 'Designation Group' (as per ICNCP) as assigned by the ISHS to each ICRA. The second name should never have been approved. Cultivar names are rarely cited in detail and few would pronounce the names differently enough to dispel confusion. The name confusion comes up more often than you'd imagine, obviously. There is a very obvious problem, and it is a good example only of a bad registration practice. We are stuck with this and my trying to explain this to you obviously failed. I hope other readers see this in its correct light. Good luck. Jim W. >To begin with, when each name is properly cited there is minimal chance of >confusion. > >There is no way to prevent people from formatting the names incorrectly and >becoming confused > >Furthermore, careful speakers pronounce the words chameleon and chamaeleon >differently. > > For me, the clincher would be the high degree of improbability that these >two names would be found in the same discussion > >I don’t see a problem with maintaining both names. Indeed, it’s a good >training example for people learning the differences among the various sorts >of nomenclature we use. > >Jim McKenney -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Mar 17 21:16:53 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080317120405.016adcc8@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Cyclamen bloom and ripening sequence Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:14:43 -0700 Recently there was discussion here about the flowering sequence of Cyclamen species in various regions. While indexing back issues of the ARGS Bulletin (predecessor to Rock Garden Quarterly), I came across the following table, which is helpful because it shows when seed of the various kinds is harvested. These data came from J. Leon Sealey of Seattle, Washington, and were published in 1964. I've changed old synonyms to current ones. Cyclamen sp. Bloom Seed purpurascens Aug-May July hederifolium Sept-Nov July africanum Sept-Nov July graecum Sept-Oct July cyprium Sept-Oct July rohlfsianum Sept-Nov July cilicium Oct-Dec June alpinum Nov-Jan June coum Nov-Mar June libanoticum Feb-Mar July pseudibericum Feb-Mar July persicum Jan-Apr July balearicum Mar-Apr July repandum Apr-May July creticum Apr-May July I've grown all these species except C. cyprium and C. balearicum and I find that in a similar climate to the one reported on, bloom times are similar but sometimes later in the spring. No doubt Sealey had some of these under glass. The interesting thing, and something most growers also find, is that no matter when the flowers appear, the seeds all tend to ripen about the same time, early to midsummer. I wonder if this has been influenced evolutionarily by the heightened activity of ants (which distribute the seeds) at this season? Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Mon Mar 17 15:20:33 2008 Message-Id: <01b401c88863$c3c003e0$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Peony Chameleons - problem Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:19:02 -0000 I agree entirely with Jim Waddick: these names are confusing and, as we all know, in horticulture the precise formulation (and pronunciation) of a name is very seldom given, so to aver differences based on the technicalities of authors and spelling is a red herring (or perhaps a blushing chameleon). John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Waddick" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Peony Chameleons - problem >Actually Jim, I'm inclined to say that this is one of those situations >where >we will simply have to agree to disagree. Dear Jim and All, I thought I'd just ignore this, but will make a response, probably against my better judgement. Jim, I do not agree to disagree at all, because mostly I am right and mostly you are wrong. Both names are in the same 'Designation Group' (as per ICNCP) as assigned by the ISHS to each ICRA. The second name should never have been approved. Cultivar names are rarely cited in detail and few would pronounce the names differently enough to dispel confusion. The name confusion comes up more often than you'd imagine, obviously. There is a very obvious problem, and it is a good example only of a bad registration practice. We are stuck with this and my trying to explain this to you obviously failed. I hope other readers see this in its correct light. Good luck. Jim W. >To begin with, when each name is properly cited there is minimal chance of >confusion. > >There is no way to prevent people from formatting the names incorrectly and >becoming confused > >Furthermore, careful speakers pronounce the words chameleon and chamaeleon >differently. > > For me, the clincher would be the high degree of improbability that these >two names would be found in the same discussion > >I don't see a problem with maintaining both names. Indeed, it's a good >training example for people learning the differences among the various >sorts >of nomenclature we use. > >Jim McKenney -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - Release Date: 15/03/2008 14:36 From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Mar 17 15:44:10 2008 Message-Id: <894C278E-98B9-4ED6-8690-D21A97DC0D1C@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: bulb sowing method Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:43:49 -0700 Mary Sue mentioned she is going to copy my method of germinating gladiolus. First off, lots of disclaimers. I devised this method because of problems I had doing things the accepted way. If you don't have my problems, then don't copy me. Problems: If seeds didn't germinate quickly, then one of these happenings would occur: the pots would dry out in the summer all the soil and seeds would wash out when the rains started in the fall or the rains would be just enough to germinate whatever was flying around, and by the next year each pot would contain a little forest of conifers and ferns. So, if I know seeds will germinate quickly or if they are tiny, I sow them in pots, or in closed containers if they require high humidity. If they are big enough to pick up individually (like all bulb seeds), then I sow them with a spoonful of damp sterile seedmix in a small plastic ziplock bag. I write all the information on a self-stick label. (name, source, number of seeds, date of sowing, temperature regime to follow). Then I put all the ziplocks with the same temperature regime together in a sandwich bag and label it. I started out just doing something like this: January 40, April 70, July 40, etc. However, this didn't work for all the seeds in that sandwich bag, so now I make sure to put the year as well. This method makes it really easy for me. I won't need to check the bag in the fridge very often. The bag that has warm-germinating seeds needs to be watched from the first week. The one that goes outside won't need to be looked at till spring. etc. As soon as I see the first radicle, I dump the whole lot into a pot. (unless I am doing a germination study, in which case I will remove just the germinated seeds). I dump out most bags into a reserved area in the garden after 4 years, unless I know that a genus is really slow. This year, for example, I had 8 year old colchicum seeds germinate. If they had been sown into a pot originally, they would never have survived to germinate. Oh, one more thing I sometimes did: when we used to go sailing all summer, I would unwind some wire coathangers and slide all the ziplock bags onto them, then I would hang them from the top of a north-facing window. In case something germinated, it would get enough light to grow till I got home. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From dells@voicenet.com Mon Mar 17 18:11:25 2008 Message-Id: <20080317221125.4E94A4C01A@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: bulb sowing method Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:11:08 -0400 Hi Diane and All, This is very interesting. How do you know which "temperature regime" each species falls in? And what is the "accepted way" that didn't suit your circumstances? Dell From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Mar 17 18:21:10 2008 Message-Id: <002e01c8887d$7d40d6f0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Peony Chameleons - problem Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:23:11 -0400 In my discussion of this issue, I made a proposal for what struck me as a reasonable solution to the problem of having two such similar names. That solution was to format the names properly. I’ve reread Jim Waddick’s response several times and nowhere do I see a counter proposal. Jim Waddick, please propose a solution which we can all discuss. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Mar 17 18:50:49 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: bulb sowing method Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:50:32 -0700 I use Deno's results, and if he hasn't tested a species, I make a best guess based on other species he has tested or I have grown. The accepted way is to sow them in a pot, cover the seeds with grit, and put them outside. I also have a problem with grit: usually plants with grit on them die because I can't figure out when to water them. I know what my standard compost looks like when it needs water. A quick glance is all that is necessary. I don't have to lift it to see if it is feeling light, or tap the pot to see if it rings. People who live in areas with summer rain probably don't have this problem. I also kill plants from nurseries that grow their plants in pumice or its equivalent, even when it is something that grows in squelchy areas on a lakeshore. I think these nurseries have automatic watering systems that come on every day. So I have a double problem: their compost is not just covered with grit, but grit all the way down. I have to remind myself to plant out immediately, or repot into a compost I'm familiar with. Diane On 17-Mar-08, at 3:11 PM, Dell Sherk wrote: > Hi Diane and All, > > This is very interesting. How do you know which "temperature regime" > each > species falls in? And what is the "accepted way" that didn't suit your > circumstances? > > Dell > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Mar 17 19:00:35 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: germinating gladiolus Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:00:19 -0700 I have begun an analysis of my gladiolus germination, which I hope will be useful to someone. The seeds have been mainly from Silverhill and Gordon Summerfield, with a few from alpine seed exchanges. I sow them when I get them, the only safe thing for me to do (When I was cleaning up for Christmas, I discovered a bag of unsown surplus seeds from 2004 - the big exchanges sell the seeds left over from their midwinter frenzy, and the price is too low to pass up. Unfortunately the seeds arrive in the middle of Easter egg hunts in the garden with all the grandchildren, or tomato transplanting time - so these ones were tidied away till they were found over 3 years later. Amazingly, a lot have germinated.) Back from the digression. I know that South African seed is supposed to be treated to a daily change in temperature, and for about a week once I did manage that. I had the bag of seeds in the fridge next to the milk at night, and in the morning, I'd remember to bring them out into the warm kitchen, and put them back each night. Too much to expect of anyone whose main job isn't germinating seeds. So they get a fairly constant temperature, whether sown in summer or winter. I keep them in the living area of my house which is heated in winter to about 18 C (70 F) in the daytime and a bit lower at night. If they are sown in summer, the house maintains about the same temperature. When they germinate, I put them in a pot in my unheated greenhouse which maintains a stable temperature as it is very big - right now, it is 10 C outside, and 15 C inside the greenhouse, and mimosa is blooming - about 4 m high. I've sown 80 packets of Gladiolus seed up to mid-January 2008 (I've made that the cutoff date because some of those have germinated.) So far, 19 have not germinated, 6 of them being Mediterranean, and the others South African. The fastest: leptosiphon 7 days involutus 10 days buckerveldii and pole-evansii 14 days huttonii 17 days flanaganii and geardii 20 days hirsutus 23 days The slowest: (of those which have germinated) kotschyanus and some unknown species from Iran 1 year natalensis 18 months I don't know how long seeds will remain viable but ungerminated (like my 8 year old Colchicum seeds). The oldest ungerminated Silverhill seeds: maculatus sown in July 2006 and trichonemifolius in November 06. I should dump them out to see if they are still sound. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Mon Mar 17 19:32:36 2008 Message-Id: <6a9ms5$8tf2vs@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out1.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: Peony Chameleons - problem Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:32:22 +1100 At 09:23 AM 18/03/2008, you wrote: >In my discussion of this issue, I made a proposal for what struck me as a >reasonable solution to the problem of having two such similar names. That >solution was to format the names properly. Jim, I'll buy into this slightly.... as a non-paeony officionado (I very basically dabble, but I am no expert)..... you're saying that the home gardener should be expecting that the sellers of a plant will definitely have the correct "format" for the names and that the cultivar name isn't enough? Given that so many suppliers can barely get the right thing under the right name isn't that a bit like expecting the cat to look after the mouse? And I do have to make a quick point out re the different spelling of the cultivar being enough to differentiate...... I guess that means that the Americans all grow a different genus to the rest of the world given that you all grow Peonies while the rest of the world used to grow Paeonies (until the American "ease" of spelling was required to be taken up, as many Americans wouldn't accept the correct spelling I assume because it was too hard to remember?). I'm not pointing this out to have a go at the Americans, but rather using it as an example of how dodgy expecting a spelling difference to help differentiate something is...... a single letter in a cultivar name spelling such as the a in your two different "cultivars" called Cham(a)eleon is just not enough differentiation, regardless of how you format them. At this stage the original hybrid may be very rare but you just never know what will happen in the future with tissue culturing etc. Then again, I guess this is no worse than importing new items into a country and giving them a new name..... thereby muddying the waters further and further as these plants are then interchanged with overseas people as "new" cultivars etc. To me a cultivar name should be unique and clearly distinguishable from previous names...... and if it is not then the cultivar name should not be adopted. I can't honestly see the sense in having to have the formatting of a name being the only definition between two different plants. It's already bad enough when you have subspecies that have the names of other species (e.g Narcissus bulbocodium ssp serotinus etc) without an "x" differentiating between two Paeonia (x) Cham(a)eleons (brackets indicate optional items depending on which cultivar you're talking about ) As to a counterproposal..... given the naming has taken place and can't be reversed then I imagine there isn't really much of a counterproposal that could be put forward is there? Other than not letting it happen like this again? Cheers. Paul T. Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Galanthus, Irises, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Mar 17 19:44:53 2008 Message-Id: <2929477C-7222-4BF2-8919-7286E733CE90@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: germinating gladiolus Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:44:33 -0700 I should have said that I don't keep the Mediterranean gladiolus seeds in warm conditions. And eventually I get tired of having the South African ones kicking about the kitchen, so they go out into the unheated greenhouse. Diane > From robertwerra@pacific.net Mon Mar 17 20:14:12 2008 Message-Id: <001601c8888c$fc803a00$ba296ad0@popbob> From: Subject: Gladiolus cultivation Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:14:08 -0700 To All, As a 'brown thumb" winter rainfall grower in inland California, I attempt a few SA winter growing gladioli. I succeed with three. Gladiolus priori (Jan. blm.-10 in.-red blossoms), Gl. watsonii (Feb. blm.-12 in.-orange red blossoms), and Gl. stefaniae (Dec. blm- 10 in. large-"knock your socks off" red and white blossoms). I have pictures of the latter, but as a procrastinater I haven't sent them to Mary Sue as yet, but will soon. They do better in the ground and are a delightful winter sight. They tolerate a few local frosts of 26 F. and a few summer 105 F. No summer water. It looks like I may have some seed for those in a suitable climate, etc. Let me know &/or I will put them on the seed list. Peace, Bob Werra From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Mar 17 20:33:26 2008 Message-Id: <8443F351-9964-4DC4-96A5-E1E04381BDCC@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: germinating gladiolus Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:33:07 -0700 I've dumped out my ziplocks of ungerminated seeds and found that there are no sound seeds in them. There were some "wings" but no seed bumps in the middle of them. All but one species of South African gladiolus had germinated by 5 months, except for G. liliaceus which took one year. Therefore, I won't keep South African gladiolus seeds beyond 5 months without checking to see if there are still seeds in the packet. I will list the species that have not germinated for me. Perhaps someone will know if they share a common need that I did not provide. debilis, papilio (2 accessions), trichonemifolius Diane From khixson@nu-world.com Mon Mar 17 22:22:04 2008 Message-Id: <47DF2729.1060901@nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Peony Chameleons - problem Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:21:29 -0700 Hi, everyone This isn't an area I profess to be an expert in, but I do have an opinion. I agree with Jim Waddick, these names are so similar than I couldn't remember which is which unless I write down and carry the distinctions. And, I'm better educated in horticulture than most buyers of plants. If registration doesn't prevent confusing two distinct plants, why go to the expense and nuisance of registering plants, and maintaining a registry? Let people call their plants whatever they want, and the names mean whatever they say they mean. It's all too close to that already, even with a registration system. There are all too many nurseries that sell "pink tiger" lilies, that are not pink and have no "tiger" in them, but the seller hopes to benefit by using a name to which the plants have no claim. Ken From djordan68@comcast.net Mon Mar 17 23:08:53 2008 Message-Id: <39B7A2F7E224468298566806E8A2AD8F@debbiePC> From: "Deborah Jordan" Subject: glad germination Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:05:34 -0500 Here's my high tech system from southeast Texas--I do a lot of Cape glads--with a wide range of results. All are started in pots with normal compost/seed germinating type medium. I start on them in November and, if the force is with me, it gets completed by mid-January. Almost all of them germinate in about 30 days (and usually right at 30 days too) if they are going to at all. I'm less patient than most, if it hasn't germinated in 60 days (unless I will simply perish without the species) its gone. I sow heavy in those pots too I might add. I don't use grit on anything because a fine layer of grit on the top of any pot of bulb seeds will turn into a thin layer of cement as soon as the temperature reaches 89F here (which it did twice this week, Friday and Saturday, record breaking temp on Sunday for us--hope this isn't an omen for what type of summer we are going to have--sorry to digress here). I coddle and foliar fertilize and get them to grow as much as I can--because come the end of May, when the temps are 89F everyday and the humidity is 98% (as it stays until mid-October) every single one of them is going down; no exceptions with the glads. I then dry the pots off (which takes maybe 1.5 days in 89F temps in the sun), and stack them on top of each other in the shade. As time permits, I bring them inside (in the air conditioning for this stage--for the benefit of the grower, not the glads--because it ranges from 93F-96F from June until the end of September, unless it rains all day long in the summer in which case we might get a break and its only 86F) one pot at a time and dump them on newspapers or into some shallow tub and pray there is something still in there. At this point one of several things happens, depending on if they can tolerate any summer rain at all and my past history/failures with the species. The real test is what happens at the end of October when it cools down to like 78F-84F. They all go back outside then (if they aren't still there because they didn't get taken care of earlier--if not they are unstacked and spread out as I growl to myself for not getting to them earlier); some in pots, some in the ground. Then we pray they start growing with the first fall rains. If they make it to this point--they are usually good to go and are up and growing by the end of November. Its hard to imagine, but it does freeze here in the winter, usually 3-4 times at 29F-31F; and rarely a 28F night. They really start taking off that second season at the end of February. I, unlike others, repot everything now after its first season. We have a long growing season here, so most kinds of bulbs will grow substantially that first year. Not just glads. I don't have space for the failures of any species--and there are an amazing number of those too but we shall leave that discussion for another day. Not sure if this helps or would work anywhere else, or even down the block for that matter, but you did ask for it Dell, so here it is. Debbie Houston, Texas From hansennursery@coosnet.com Mon Mar 17 23:24:33 2008 Message-Id: <003301c888a7$8e0afd60$4afe64d0@homed4aec9b2d8> From: "Robin Hansen" Subject: bulb sowing method Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:24:16 -0700 I think Diane has brought up a very important concern, and that is our own interactions with our particular personal soil mixes, climate, watering practices and personal habits. I truly believe that regardless of what experts say about what soil mixes and propagation techniques to use, we have to adjust them in a way that works for us. Some years ago, after losing numerous treasures from plant sales, I finally and firmly fixed my habit of immediately repotting anything I brought home. It has saved endless grief, not to say money on replacements. The same goes for sowing seed. If you get the true basics right, the rest will happen if it's going to. Use soil mix you understand the qualities of - instead of pumice on the surface, add some to the mix. Pay attention to temperatures, but consider your own microclimates and humidity, etc. Nearly always, close enough is good enough. After more than 25 years of sowing seed every year, I'm less concerned with the procedures than I am with basic viability of seed, which to me is truly the governing factor. The source of your seed - and therefore the quality - is the most important part of the whole process. Mother nature plays a much bigger role than we tend to give her credit for... Robin Hansen Saunders Lake, Oregon where bulbs are in Heaven From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Mar 18 00:17:05 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: glad germination Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:16:47 -0700 Deborah, Wow! Zoom. One question: Where are you getting your seeds - from South Africa or from your own collection now? Diane From talkingpoints@plantsoup.com Tue Mar 18 01:35:46 2008 Message-Id: From: N Sterman Subject: Gladiolus cultivation Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:35:50 -0700 I arrived home from the San Francisco Flower Show close to midnight on Saturday night and as I stumbled to the front door, I was stopped in my tracks by a wonderful fragrance. In the dark, I couldn't pinpoint it, but the next morning when I walked outside, I saw that my Gladiolus tristis are in full exuberant bloom. I knew they released their scent in the afternoon but I had no idea how strong it is at night. I expect they are moth pollinated since they are a ghostly pale yellow and fragrant when it is dark outside. I started with just a few bulbs and now six or seven years later, they are very generous clumps. My mediterranean climate seems to be much to their liking - helped along by the fact that I am very stingy with summer water. In a few weeks, I expect that their polar opposite, G. byzantinus will be blooming its fiery magenta head off. Similar scale plants and similar scale flowers, but leaves are about 1/2" across (G. tristis leaves are as fine as a blade of grass). Both grow to about 2' tall in my garden. G. dalenii blooms in fall here in Southern California. The spring glads do so well and are so easy that I included them in my recent book. Hope this helps, Dell! PS I wholeheartedly agree that species glads are far more beautiful than the gaudy ones that are best used in funeral arrangements. Nan ***************************************** Nan Sterman Plant Soup, Inc. TM TalkingPoints@PlantSoup.Com PO Box 231034 Encinitas, CA 92023 Order your personalized copy of the all new California Gardener's Guide vol II at www.PlantSoup.Com Watch A Growing Passion now on YouTube! Search for all five segments, starting at http://youtube.com/watch? v=4bpTdXY3cG8 From carlobal@netzero.com Tue Mar 18 04:58:59 2008 Message-Id: <20080318.045742.12061.0@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.com" Subject: glad germination Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:57:42 GMT Great post Debbie. Just the kind of information that's helpful to so many... Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com _____________________________________________________________ Click for top financial advice. Reduce debt & save for retirement. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4tx37QCIq3ARFiO2r67Jufk1aO0MAkM2kbkzzTWe0ZwRgLO1/ From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Mar 18 11:38:18 2008 Message-Id: <001501c8890e$5db660c0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: glad germination Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:40:12 -0400 Great post, Debbie: I hope we hear more from you in the future. While we on the East Coast can look to California and the Pacific Northwest for inspiration, we have to look closer to home for down-to-earth advice. Texas might be half way across the continent, but we get (eventually) your weather. The climate and weather down there in Houston and the conditions here in Maryland have a lot in common. The pattern is basically the same, although our winters are longer and colder and your summers are longer and hotter. And I can definitely relate to the living death plants undergo during that period when daytime temperatures are high and nights don't cool off much. It's an extra season we share, something no one who has not lived through it can imagine. When I was in the Army forty years ago I was stationed in central Texas (nowhere near Houston) for a full year. I remember it as one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen. The late winter-early spring wildflowers were wonderful. Several times I got to see summer rains bring up overnight fields of rain lilies: amazing! I wonder how many of us are toying with these south African irids: there's a goldmine of things to work with there. Some Freesia, Babiana, Sparaxis and Watsonia seem to thrive in my cold frame. Little Freesia viridis - almost a glad - is loaded with buds now and should bloom any day. These give me great hope that one day I'll be telling everyone about my glads, too. Do you grow any of the neotropical tigridioid irids? Or for that matter, the native Texan ones? My cold frame is home to one each of Gelasine and Calydorea and others. Cool plants, all of them. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where Magnolia stellata is in profuse, potently fragrant bloom. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Mar 18 11:57:21 2008 Message-Id: <001601c88911$05f5bfe0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Eranthis hyemails 'Guinea Gold' Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:59:17 -0400 There are those who regard nomenclatural matters as mattes of right and wrong: in their view, there is only one right way to do things. I don’t look at it that way at all. I’ve been thinking a lot about winter aconites lately, and these seemingly simple little flowers offer some examples of just how opinion comes to influence nomenclature. In the heading for this post I’ve deliberately used the provocative, benignly provocative I hope, combination Eranthis hyemalis ‘Guinea Gold’. Those of you who know your winter aconites know that ‘Guinea Gold’ was raised in the early twentieth century and presented to the gardening public as a hybrid between what were then known as Eranthis hyemalis and E. cilicica. I believe it was Bowles who coined the name tubergenii for the hybrid group. Until recently, the usual citation of the name would have been Eranthis x tubergenii ‘Guinea Gold’. Some modern botanists regard Eranthis hyemalis and E. cilicica as conspecific. In that view, ‘Guinea Gold’ is not a hybrid – at any rate, not an interspecific hybrid. That allows it to be cited as Eranthis hyemalis ‘Guinea Gold’: both parents of this cultivar are of the species Eranthis hyemalis. There is another formula one encounters: Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group ‘Guinea Gold’. I’m not sure what to make of this combination: I assume it is tacit recognition of the existence of more than one ‘Guinea Gold’. In this view, if I’ve got it right, although the original ‘Guinea Gold’ was a clone, this combination of names recognizes that not only does more than one plant now go around under the name ‘Guinea Gold’, but also that the true, original plant is seemingly lost in the crowd. Some people throw up their hands in the face of such complexities. I relish them as a way of attaining more finely nuanced expressions of the relationships involved. Is one right and the others wrong? I don’t think so. Like everything else in science, the scientific basis of nomenclature is an if…then proposition. If you believe that Eranthis hyemalis and E. cilicica are discrete species, you write Eranthis x tubergenii ‘Guinea Gold’. If you believe E. hyemails and E. cilicica are conspecific, you write Eranthis hyemalis ‘Guinea Gold’. If you believe the plants going around under the name ‘Guinea Gold’ cannot with certainty be attributed to the original clone, then you write Eranthis Tubergenii Group ‘Guinea Gold’ or even Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group ‘Guinea Gold’. But is one of these right and the others wrong? Get out the boxing gloves! There’s more. I’ve also spent some time bugging some very tolerant friends and experts about the gender of this word Eranthis. It’s been traditionally treated as feminine, although some troublesome entries in the Flora Europaea suggested that some at least were treating it as masculine (or were very careless in their typing). Why the uncertainty? In short, because the etymology of the word is uncertain. It looks like Greek, but search the lexica as you will, there is apparently no word –anthis. Salisbury, the author of the genus, complicated things by using a specific epithet, hyemalis, which can be either masculine or feminine. Remember the discussion we had in the past about the gender of the genus Acis? Same author, same problem: as far as I know, Salisbury’s intentions remain unknown. It was not Salisbury who determined the gender of these genera but rather subsequent users – and they by default. All of this gives me new appreciation of the simplicity of “winter aconite”. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where Lilium hansonii and Cardiocrinum cordatum are up. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Mar 18 12:24:47 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Heaving lessons for those in mild climates Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:25:02 -0500 Dear All, This has been one of the worst winters in many for heaving. As I wandered the garden looking at labels askew and scattered, and plants protruding, I realized that gardeners in milder climates may not understand the 'Joys of Heaving'. It made me wonder. Some lessons: What is heaving? During winter the soil alternately freezes and thaws. The soil loosens and tightens its 'grip' around plants, labels, stakes, anything stuck into the ground. This freeze/thaw alternation tends to push 'stuff ' up and out of the soil. It literally 'heaves'. What heaves? Anything can heave, but thin plastic labels are the most common. I have dozens of such labels especially newly stuck labels and some up to 8 inches long lying horizontal across the soil close to their original mark. Late planted perennials that have not had a chance to secure themselves with deep roots can also heave. Even wooden stakes and small fence posts or plant stakes can heave completely out of the ground. What are the cures? Labels can be pushed as far down in the soil as possible and may be re-pushed deeper into the ground in mid winter, but often the soil is too frozen to push a loose label back in. For some plants like bearded iris, I put a brick on the rhizome to hold it down ( there are dozens of bricks around the garden), but for many herbaceous plants it is hard to keep them in the ground. You have to push them down when the soil warms up enough to accept a well placed push. What are the dangers? The worst is when a plant heaves almost totally out the ground and is then subject to a series of hard freezes and thaws or sudden winter warm ups totally exposed. This can kill slightly tender, especially newly planted plants and bulbs. Labels can be heaved out, then blown around by winter breezes making return to their original spot suspect. Are there any pluses to heaving? Well not many. I suppose once labels are completely out of the ground this allows you an 'opportunity' to check if they are legible, correct spelling, add any planting notes or replace them with a longer deeper label. This has been a very wet winter and a long cold one, too. I suspect this has been the cause so much heaving this winter. Is there something comparable in mild climates? Do mild climates have heaving too? Why me ? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From dells@voicenet.com Tue Mar 18 13:16:21 2008 Message-Id: <20080318171617.6AAA04C011@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Gladiolus cultivation Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:15:56 -0400 Thank you to all who responded to my questions. I have more courage now about trying glads. (Not that lack of courage has ever stopped me from trying to grow impossible plants.) I hope that other would-be growers of gladiolus found the comments helpful. And I did follow Eugene Zielinski's suggestion and ordered Manning/Goldblatt's Gladiolus in Southern Africa from Amazon for "only" $62.00 with shipping. Other sites wanted up to about $85. One UK sight listed it for $43 used, but I figured with the shipping it would not end up any cheaper. And Gladiolus in Tropical Africa that Gene said used to be available for from Edw. Hamilton Bookseller, for $4, is no longer of this world. Dell From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Mar 18 13:23:43 2008 Message-Id: <4830438C-427A-4300-9FF3-3D0E73E42D11@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Gladiolus books Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:23:15 -0700 Powells in Portland Oregon has 1 copy left of Gladiolus in Tropical Africa for $17.95 http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-9780881923339-2 Diane > From LucGBulot@aol.com Tue Mar 18 13:49:45 2008 Message-Id: <8CA57378D7AE3EA-148C-3D9@WEBMAIL-MB05.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: : Gladiolus books Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:49:30 -0400 Hi Dell, I just had a look at abebooks.com... 30 copies (new and second hand) are avalaible from various book sellers - price ranging from $ 12 to 45... Even out of print (I believe), this book is easy to find... Luc From msittner@mcn.org Tue Mar 18 14:14:22 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080318104538.015d9c58@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions-Narcissus and Whiteheadia, Colored Logo Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:11:19 -0700 New Narcissus from Jay Yourch: 'Toby the First' and a group picture of 'Wisley' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionSix 'Puppet' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionFive#Puppet 'Trepolo' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionEleven#Trepolo 'Mount Hood' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionOne#Mount group shot of 'Chromacolor' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionTwo#Chromacolor 'Pappy George' and 'Sweetness' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionSeven 'Toto' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MiniatureNarcissus#Toto Additional pictures of Whiteheadia growing in the rocks in Namaqualand, September 2006. We weren't traveling with Diane and Don, but we were there at the same time and don't know if the plants we found in the rocks were the same plants they found in the same rocks. These were the only ones we saw in our three days in Namaqualand and maybe the found the same ones. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Whiteheadia Also Jennifer Hildebrand has added color to the wiki logo. If you can't see this, you may need to refresh or reload the page. I have found in Mozilla Firefox that can have fleeting results with the new image replaced with the old image at a later date. It seems to be tenacious about holding on to the past. Thanks Jen for this attractive improvement. Mary Sue From dells@voicenet.com Tue Mar 18 14:35:15 2008 Message-Id: <20080318183505.714094C011@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Gladiolus books Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:34:15 -0400 Thanks, Diane, for the tip. It looks like some inconsiderate person has snatched it up already. :<0 Dell -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Diane Whitehead Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 1:23 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Gladiolus books Powells in Portland Oregon has 1 copy left of Gladiolus in Tropical Africa for $17.95 http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-9780881923339-2 Diane > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Mar 18 14:43:56 2008 Message-Id: <8B04BF09-33C5-4A46-8D90-6DC80D23B414@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Wiki Additions-Narcissus and Whiteheadia, Colored Logo Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:43:35 -0700 I got "tuned in" to Whiteheadia, so I found it in quite a few places. No exciting variants, though. Diane Whitehead From totototo@telus.net Tue Mar 18 15:11:34 2008 Message-Id: <20080318191129.81NJVBHCQB@priv-edmwaa05.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Eranthis hyemails 'Guinea Gold' Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:12:18 -0700 On 18 Mar 08, at 11:59, Jim McKenney wrote: > There are those who regard nomenclatural matters as mattes of right > and wrong: in their view, there is only one right way to do things. I > don’t look at it that way at all. Oh, come now, what's a little bolshevism between friends? > I’ve been thinking a lot about winter aconites lately, and these > seemingly simple little flowers offer some examples of just how > opinion comes to influence nomenclature. > > In the heading for this post I’ve deliberately used the provocative, > benignly provocative I hope, combination Eranthis hyemalis ‘Guinea > Gold’. > > Those of you who know your winter aconites know that ‘Guinea Gold’ was > raised in the early twentieth century and presented to the gardening > public as a hybrid between what were then known as Eranthis hyemalis > and E. cilicica. I believe it was Bowles who coined the name > tubergenii for the hybrid group. Until recently, the usual citation of > the name would have been Eranthis x tubergenii ‘Guinea Gold’. Janis Ruksans, in his book "Buried Treasure", mentions this plant as one he's received from many sources and doesn't think he's ever gotten the "real thing." I have a patch labelled "Eranthis × tubergenii" that originated at Gothenberg and, afaik, doesn't pretend to be 'Guinea Gold'. Its flowers are rather small, but a deep saturated yellow, with darkish foliage, just as Ruksans describes. Since both specific names are validly published, names for this plant are valid whether they presume one species or two. > Some modern botanists regard Eranthis hyemalis and E. cilicica as > conspecific. In that view, ‘Guinea Gold’ is not a hybrid – at any > rate, not an interspecific hybrid. That allows it to be cited as > Eranthis hyemalis ‘Guinea Gold’: both parents of this cultivar are of > the species Eranthis hyemalis. > > There is another formula one encounters: Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii > Group ‘Guinea Gold’. I’m not sure what to make of this combination: I > assume it is tacit recognition of the existence of more than one > ‘Guinea Gold’. In this view, if I’ve got it right, although the > original ‘Guinea Gold’ was a clone, this combination of names > recognizes that not only does more than one plant now go around under > the name ‘Guinea Gold’, but also that the true, original plant is > seemingly lost in the crowd. What that fancy names means is "a particular clone called Guinea Gold, which is a one of a flock of similar looking plants, the Tubergenii Group, that can be distinguished from run of the mill Eranthis hyemalis. Got it? > Some people throw up their hands in the face of such complexities. I > relish them as a way of attaining more finely nuanced expressions of > the relationships involved. Is one right and the others wrong? I > don’t think so. Like everything else in science, the scientific basis > of nomenclature is an if…then proposition. If you believe that > Eranthis hyemalis and E. cilicica are discrete species, you write > Eranthis x tubergenii ‘Guinea Gold’. > > If you believe E. hyemails and E. cilicica are conspecific, you write > Eranthis hyemalis ‘Guinea Gold’. > > If you believe the plants going around under the name ‘Guinea Gold’ > cannot with certainty be attributed to the original clone, then you > write Eranthis Tubergenii Group ‘Guinea Gold’ or even Eranthis > hyemalis Tubergenii Group ‘Guinea Gold’. Or Eranthis × tubergenii. > But is one of these right and the others wrong? Get out the boxing > gloves! They're all correct. Remember that taxonomy is largely a science of opinion, not hard facts, so the only measure of validity is whether the publication of a name met the technical rules such as Latin description, etc. My best guess is that the cross has been made more than once and the original 'Guinea Gold' is long lost track of in a crowd of lookalikes. It probably still exists in some gardens, as eranthis seem to be pretty permanent plants, but who knows? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Mar 18 15:39:57 2008 Message-Id: <001a01c88930$22f9a240$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Eranthis hyemails 'Guinea Gold' Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:41:59 -0400 I think I follow you, Roger. If so, then to indicate that scenario where all the claimants to the name Guinea Gold are grouped, should we write Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group Guinea Gold Group? Eranthis hyemalis Guinea Gold Group? Eranthis Guinea Gold Group? Is there a better way? Jim McKenney From davidxvictor@btinternet.com Tue Mar 18 15:45:51 2008 Message-Id: <20080318194540.B6A9B4C02A@lists.ibiblio.org> From: David Victor Subject: Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold' Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:45:27 +0000 Hi Jim, You raised a question about the term Tubergenii Group. Its a cultivar group name i.e. a superset of cultivars which contains the cultivar 'Guinea Gold'. Someone somewhere has published the name Tubergenii Group, together with a description of the range of cultivars that it includes. The rules are laid down in the Cultivated Code. The aim with such a grouping is to pull together plants that have a horticultural relationship which are within a Denomination Class (as laid down by the Cultivated Code, which is normally a genus), but which otherwise may not be a very close botanical relationship. For example, it could be a group of variegated plants or a group of early flowering varieties. However, the groups that are normally chosen are close and are often a group of interspecific hybrids. An appropriate example taken from the Code might be in Iris, the Dutch Group, which includes the complex of early flowering cultivars arising mainly from I. tingitana, I. xiphium var. lusitanica and I xiphium var. praecox. Incidentally, one useful feature of such Groups for horticultural purposes is that a particular cultivar can be in more than one group, depending on the need of the author. Best regards, David Victor From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Tue Mar 18 16:05:35 2008 Message-Id: <247132.20871.qm@web84312.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Merendera sobolifera Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:05:23 -0700 (PDT) I mentioned Merendera sobolifera and its peculiar floral construction in several recent posts. I’ve added three images of Merendera sobolifera to the wiki this afternoon. These show the unusual corm, the peculiar, tenuous, elongated tepals and the “hooks” which hold the tepals together at the waist (arcane botanical term) of the flower. Take a look at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Merendera Enjoy! Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Tue Mar 18 16:54:55 2008 Message-Id: <69naj8$73npi9@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out3.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: Eranthis hyemails 'Guinea Gold' Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 07:54:33 +1100 > >If so, then to indicate that scenario where all the claimants to the name >Guinea Gold are grouped, should we write Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group >Guinea Gold Group? >Eranthis hyemalis Guinea Gold Group? >Eranthis Guinea Gold Group? Jim, Does the "aff" tag fit here? Never quite sure how it is applied. Always think of it as meaning "related to" or "possibly" when I see it in naming. Could Eranthis aff. 'Guinea Gold' be applied in this case? Are many of the 'Guina Gold' that are about coming from seedlings from the original? Given it is a hybrid between species (or not, depending on whether they're all hyemalis ) then I would assume you'd throw back to both sides, which would give you a whole range of different flowers under the one name etc? Cheers. Paul T. Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Galanthus, Irises, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Mar 18 17:33:26 2008 Message-Id: <001b01c8893f$f56aeef0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold' Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:35:15 -0400 Thanks, David and Paul. David, you sort of touched on the aspect of the capital G Group concept which appeals to me so greatly, and which makes it such a useful tool when sorting out plants without pedigrees: while it's axiomatic that the categories of formal botany not be polyphyletic, the elements which make up a capital G Group may be polyphyletic. Has no subset (i.e. capital G Group) of Tubergenii Group been named for the group of cultivars which are candidates for consideration as 'Guinea Gold'? The plants which make up Tubergenii Group as I know it range widely in characters. Many are not particularly desirable as garden plants. But every once and a while one runs across a plant which has the sort of characteristics which make an exceptional garden plant and seems to answer to one's preconceived notion of what 'Guinea Gold' should be. These have presumably been the source of the "false Guinea Golds" said to be making the rounds. When the question before us is "which is the true 'Guinea Gold', that subset is the one we need to focus on. Paul mentioned the despicable practice (no bad reflection meant on you, Paul) of using the abbreviation aff. in naming plants. Aff. is neo-Latin for "beats me, I guess it's [fill in the blank]" Since all living things are presumably related at one level or another, every living thing is "aff" every other living thing to some degree. And so this aff. business doesn't tell us much. We gardeners are by and large optimistic sorts. Does hope bloom anywhere else so eternally as it does among gardeners? To answer your other question, Paul, I think I've read that the original 'Guinea Gold' is/was "sterile". I'll repeat my usual caveat here: claims of sterility in the older literature have to be taken with caution. Often the "sterility" in question is the result of a triploid condition in a population which is otherwise diploid. Such triploids often give abundant viable seed when pollinated by tetraploids. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Mar 18 17:43:14 2008 Message-Id: <001c01c88941$5c039f80$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold' Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:45:17 -0400 I noticed that David (thank you) unobtrusively corrected the typo in the subject line of my original post for this thread. Aside from the embarrassment, there is a practical aspect to this that's on my mind. If we correct typos in the subject line, will the messages with the correction link with the ones with the typo for search purposes? Jim McKenney From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Tue Mar 18 17:47:58 2008 Message-Id: <6eq1ke$5p6r1o@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out4.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold' Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:47:43 +1100 > >To answer your other question, Paul, I think I've read that the original >'Guinea Gold' is/was "sterile". I'll repeat my usual caveat here: claims of >sterility in the older literature have to be taken with caution. Often the >"sterility" in question is the result of a triploid condition in a >population which is otherwise diploid. Such triploids often give abundant >viable seed when pollinated by tetraploids. Or, of course, they were sterile in those conditions, but taken into other conditions they were no longer sterile. I often here talk of particular things which are sterile in such-and-such a country, but here in Aus (or vice versa) they produce seed. Sometimes a change in environment can beat that sterility, and all it takes is one beating of that sterility to start producing those seedlings that muddy the waters as to the name being a clone or a group. And that is leaving aside the just plain "wrong thing under wrong name" problem that brings named clones uniqueness undone. Cheers. Paul T. Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Galanthus, Irises, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! From khixson@nu-world.com Tue Mar 18 17:59:25 2008 Message-Id: <47E03B2C.6040702@nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: glad germination Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:59:08 -0700 Hi, Debbie > I don't use grit on anything because a fine layer of grit on the top of any pot of bulb seeds will turn into a thin layer of cement as soon as the temperature reaches 89F here From this I assume you use a "grit" that includes the "fines" or sand. It is also possible to get what is called (for instance) 3/8 "open", meaning the largest particles are 3/8", and the smaller pieces, or "sand", are sieved out. If you can't get a larger "grit" size, try sifting out the smaller particles. An aquarium supply store often carries "aquarium sand" in larger sizes-1/8 to 1/4". If you have access to a farm store, ask what they have for poultry or chicken grit. I use pumice for pot toppings for most things that will germinate while it is still raining, but pumice will dry out and blow around in the summer, so for anything that takes a while to germinate, "grit" is a better choice. I'm still amazed, after years of seeing it, at how much cooler it is, and how much moister, below a few inches of either one. Ken From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Tue Mar 18 18:21:58 2008 Message-Id: <00f601c88946$7a065310$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Aff - able? Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:21:54 -0000 I am surprised at the usually so-precise Jim McKenney's outburst against the invaluable word affinis, abbreviated to aff. > Paul mentioned the despicable practice (no bad reflection meant on you, Paul) of using the abbreviation aff. in naming plants. Aff. is neo-Latin for "beats me, I guess it's [fill in the blank]" Since all living things are presumably related at one level or another, every living thing is "aff" every other living thing to some degree. And so this aff. business doesn't tell us much. Aff. means quite clearly and simply, 'akin to, bordering' (see Stearn's 'Botanical Latin'), and this is the sense in which it is used by every competent botanist. Those of us who attempt to identify wild (or even garden) plants will inevitably come across specimens that do not quite seem to match a description, or a comparative specimen, but seem to be akin to, or bordering on it; these will rightly and properly be annotated as aff. species X. It indicates that further study is required, perhaps to reveal a wider variation than previously recorded in a species' morphology, or perhaps indeed suggesting that it is a hitherto undescribed taxon - that's when aff. becomes fun. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP From adam14113@ameritech.net Tue Mar 18 18:34:10 2008 Message-Id: <005401c88948$1535d800$52ec8f47@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 62, Issue 24 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:33:25 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 4:48 PM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 62, Issue 24 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Gladiolus books (Diane Whitehead) > 2. Re : Gladiolus books (lucgbulot@aol.com) > 3. Wiki Additions-Narcissus and Whiteheadia, Colored Logo > (Mary Sue Ittner) > 4. Re: Gladiolus books (Dell Sherk) > 5. Re: Wiki Additions-Narcissus and Whiteheadia, Colored Logo > (Diane Whitehead) > 6. Re: Eranthis hyemails 'Guinea Gold' (totototo@telus.net) > 7. Re: Eranthis hyemails 'Guinea Gold' (Jim McKenney) > 8. Re: Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold' > (David Victor) > 9. Merendera sobolifera (Jim McKenney) > 10. Re: Eranthis hyemails 'Guinea Gold' (Paul T.) > 11. Re: Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold' > (Jim McKenney) > 12. Re: Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold' > (Jim McKenney) > 13. Re: Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold' (Paul T.) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:23:15 -0700 > From: Diane Whitehead > Subject: Re: [pbs] Gladiolus books > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <4830438C-427A-4300-9FF3-3D0E73E42D11@islandnet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Powells in Portland Oregon has 1 copy left of Gladiolus in Tropical > Africa for $17.95 > > http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-9780881923339-2 > > > Diane > >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:49:30 -0400 > From: lucgbulot@aol.com > Subject: [pbs] Re : Gladiolus books > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <8CA57378D7AE3EA-148C-3D9@WEBMAIL-MB05.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Dell, > > I just had a look at abebooks.com... 30 copies (new and second hand) are > avalaible from various book sellers - price ranging from $ 12 to 45... > Even out of print (I believe), this book is easy to find... > > Luc > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:11:19 -0700 > From: Mary Sue Ittner > Subject: [pbs] Wiki Additions-Narcissus and Whiteheadia, Colored Logo > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20080318104538.015d9c58@mail.mcn.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > New Narcissus from Jay Yourch: > 'Toby the First' and a group picture of 'Wisley' > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionSix > 'Puppet' > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionFive#Puppet > 'Trepolo' > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionEleven#Trepolo > 'Mount Hood' > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionOne#Mount > group shot of 'Chromacolor' > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionTwo#Chromacolor > 'Pappy George' and 'Sweetness' > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionSeven > 'Toto' > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MiniatureNarcissus#Toto > > Additional pictures of Whiteheadia growing in the rocks in Namaqualand, > September 2006. We weren't traveling with Diane and Don, but we were there > at the same time and don't know if the plants we found in the rocks were > the same plants they found in the same rocks. These were the only ones we > saw in our three days in Namaqualand and maybe the found the same ones. > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Whiteheadia > > Also Jennifer Hildebrand has added color to the wiki logo. If you can't > see > this, you may need to refresh or reload the page. I have found in Mozilla > Firefox that can have fleeting results with the new image replaced with > the > old image at a later date. It seems to be tenacious about holding on to > the > past. Thanks Jen for this attractive improvement. > > Mary Sue > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:34:15 -0400 > From: "Dell Sherk" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Gladiolus books > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" > Message-ID: <20080318183505.714094C011@lists.ibiblio.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Thanks, Diane, for the tip. It looks like some inconsiderate person has > snatched it up already. :<0 > > Dell > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of Diane Whitehead > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 1:23 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Gladiolus books > > Powells in Portland Oregon has 1 copy left of Gladiolus in Tropical > Africa for $17.95 > > http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-9780881923339-2 > > > Diane > >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:43:35 -0700 > From: Diane Whitehead > Subject: Re: [pbs] Wiki Additions-Narcissus and Whiteheadia, Colored > Logo > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <8B04BF09-33C5-4A46-8D90-6DC80D23B414@islandnet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > I got "tuned in" to Whiteheadia, so I found it in quite a few places. > No exciting variants, though. > > Diane Whitehead > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:12:18 -0700 > From: totototo@telus.net > Subject: Re: [pbs] Eranthis hyemails 'Guinea Gold' > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <20080318191129.81NJVBHCQB@priv-edmwaa05.telusplanet.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On 18 Mar 08, at 11:59, Jim McKenney wrote: > >> There are those who regard nomenclatural matters as mattes of right >> and wrong: in their view, there is only one right way to do things. I >> don?t look at it that way at all. > > Oh, come now, what's a little bolshevism between friends? > >> I?ve been thinking a lot about winter aconites lately, and these >> seemingly simple little flowers offer some examples of just how >> opinion comes to influence nomenclature. >> >> In the heading for this post I?ve deliberately used the provocative, >> benignly provocative I hope, combination Eranthis hyemalis ?Guinea >> Gold?. >> >> Those of you who know your winter aconites know that ?Guinea Gold? was >> raised in the early twentieth century and presented to the gardening >> public as a hybrid between what were then known as Eranthis hyemalis >> and E. cilicica. I believe it was Bowles who coined the name >> tubergenii for the hybrid group. Until recently, the usual citation of >> the name would have been Eranthis x tubergenii ?Guinea Gold?. > > Janis Ruksans, in his book "Buried Treasure", mentions this plant as > one he's received from many sources and doesn't think he's ever > gotten the "real thing." I have a patch labelled "Eranthis ? > tubergenii" that originated at Gothenberg and, afaik, doesn't pretend > to be 'Guinea Gold'. Its flowers are rather small, but a deep > saturated yellow, with darkish foliage, just as Ruksans describes. > > Since both specific names are validly published, names for this plant > are valid whether they presume one species or two. > > >> Some modern botanists regard Eranthis hyemalis and E. cilicica as >> conspecific. In that view, ?Guinea Gold? is not a hybrid ? at any >> rate, not an interspecific hybrid. That allows it to be cited as >> Eranthis hyemalis ?Guinea Gold?: both parents of this cultivar are of >> the species Eranthis hyemalis. >> >> There is another formula one encounters: Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii >> Group ?Guinea Gold?. I?m not sure what to make of this combination: I >> assume it is tacit recognition of the existence of more than one >> ?Guinea Gold?. In this view, if I?ve got it right, although the >> original ?Guinea Gold? was a clone, this combination of names >> recognizes that not only does more than one plant now go around under >> the name ?Guinea Gold?, but also that the true, original plant is >> seemingly lost in the crowd. > > What that fancy names means is "a particular clone called Guinea > Gold, which is a one of a flock of similar looking plants, the > Tubergenii Group, that can be distinguished from run of the mill > Eranthis hyemalis. Got it? > > >> Some people throw up their hands in the face of such complexities. I >> relish them as a way of attaining more finely nuanced expressions of >> the relationships involved. Is one right and the others wrong? I >> don?t think so. Like everything else in science, the scientific basis >> of nomenclature is an if?then proposition. If you believe that >> Eranthis hyemalis and E. cilicica are discrete species, you write >> Eranthis x tubergenii ?Guinea Gold?. >> >> If you believe E. hyemails and E. cilicica are conspecific, you write >> Eranthis hyemalis ?Guinea Gold?. >> >> If you believe the plants going around under the name ?Guinea Gold? >> cannot with certainty be attributed to the original clone, then you >> write Eranthis Tubergenii Group ?Guinea Gold? or even Eranthis >> hyemalis Tubergenii Group ?Guinea Gold?. > > Or Eranthis ? tubergenii. > >> But is one of these right and the others wrong? Get out the boxing >> gloves! > > They're all correct. Remember that taxonomy is largely a science of > opinion, not hard facts, so the only measure of validity is whether > the publication of a name met the technical rules such as Latin > description, etc. > > My best guess is that the cross has been made more than once and the > original 'Guinea Gold' is long lost track of in a crowd of > lookalikes. It probably still exists in some gardens, as eranthis > seem to be pretty permanent plants, but who knows? > > > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate > > on beautiful Vancouver Island > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:41:59 -0400 > From: "Jim McKenney" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Eranthis hyemails 'Guinea Gold' > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" > Message-ID: <001a01c88930$22f9a240$2f01a8c0@Library> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I think I follow you, Roger. > > If so, then to indicate that scenario where all the claimants to the name > Guinea Gold are grouped, should we write Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii > Group > Guinea Gold Group? > Eranthis hyemalis Guinea Gold Group? > Eranthis Guinea Gold Group? > > Is there a better way? > > Jim McKenney > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:45:27 +0000 > From: David Victor > Subject: Re: [pbs] Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold' > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <20080318194540.B6A9B4C02A@lists.ibiblio.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Hi Jim, > > You raised a question about the term Tubergenii Group. Its a > cultivar group name i.e. a superset of cultivars which contains the > cultivar 'Guinea Gold'. Someone somewhere has published the name > Tubergenii Group, together with a description of the range of > cultivars that it includes. The rules are laid down in the Cultivated > Code. > > The aim with such a grouping is to pull together plants that have a > horticultural relationship which are within a Denomination Class (as > laid down by the Cultivated Code, which is normally a genus), but > which otherwise may not be a very close botanical relationship. For > example, it could be a group of variegated plants or a group of early > flowering varieties. However, the groups that are normally chosen > are close and are often a group of interspecific hybrids. > > An appropriate example taken from the Code might be in Iris, the > Dutch Group, which includes the complex of early flowering cultivars > arising mainly from I. tingitana, I. xiphium var. lusitanica and I > xiphium var. praecox. > > Incidentally, one useful feature of such Groups for horticultural > purposes is that a particular cultivar can be in more than one group, > depending on the need of the author. > > Best regards, > David Victor > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:05:23 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jim McKenney > Subject: [pbs] Merendera sobolifera > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <247132.20871.qm@web84312.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > I mentioned Merendera sobolifera and its peculiar floral construction in > several recent posts. I?ve added three images of Merendera sobolifera to > the wiki this afternoon. These show the unusual corm, the peculiar, > tenuous, elongated tepals and the ?hooks? which hold the tepals together > at the waist (arcane botanical term) of the flower. > > Take a look at: > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Merendera > > Enjoy! > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA > zone 7 > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 07:54:33 +1100 > From: "Paul T." > Subject: Re: [pbs] Eranthis hyemails 'Guinea Gold' > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <69naj8$73npi9@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out3.iinet.net.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > >> >>If so, then to indicate that scenario where all the claimants to the name >>Guinea Gold are grouped, should we write Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii >>Group >>Guinea Gold Group? >>Eranthis hyemalis Guinea Gold Group? >>Eranthis Guinea Gold Group? > > Jim, > > Does the "aff" tag fit here? Never quite sure how it is > applied. Always think of it as meaning "related to" or "possibly" > when I see it in naming. Could Eranthis aff. 'Guinea Gold' be > applied in this case? > > Are many of the 'Guina Gold' that are about coming from seedlings > from the original? Given it is a hybrid between species (or not, > depending on whether they're all hyemalis ) then I would assume > you'd throw back to both sides, which would give you a whole range of > different flowers under the one name etc? > > Cheers. > > Paul T. > Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 > > Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world > including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, > Galanthus, Irises, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about > anything else that doesn't move!! > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:35:15 -0400 > From: "Jim McKenney" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold' > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" > Message-ID: <001b01c8893f$f56aeef0$2f01a8c0@Library> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks, David and Paul. > > David, you sort of touched on the aspect of the capital G Group concept > which appeals to me so greatly, and which makes it such a useful tool when > sorting out plants without pedigrees: while it's axiomatic that the > categories of formal botany not be polyphyletic, the elements which make > up > a capital G Group may be polyphyletic. > > Has no subset (i.e. capital G Group) of Tubergenii Group been named for > the > group of cultivars which are candidates for consideration as 'Guinea > Gold'? > > The plants which make up Tubergenii Group as I know it range widely in > characters. Many are not particularly desirable as garden plants. > > But every once and a while one runs across a plant which has the sort of > characteristics which make an exceptional garden plant and seems to answer > to one's preconceived notion of what 'Guinea Gold' should be. These have > presumably been the source of the "false Guinea Golds" said to be making > the > rounds. > > When the question before us is "which is the true 'Guinea Gold', that > subset > is the one we need to focus on. > > Paul mentioned the despicable practice (no bad reflection meant on you, > Paul) of using the abbreviation aff. in naming plants. Aff. is neo-Latin > for > "beats me, I guess it's [fill in the blank]" Since all living things are > presumably related at one level or another, every living thing is "aff" > every other living thing to some degree. And so this aff. business doesn't > tell us much. We gardeners are by and large optimistic sorts. Does hope > bloom anywhere else so eternally as it does among gardeners? > > To answer your other question, Paul, I think I've read that the original > 'Guinea Gold' is/was "sterile". I'll repeat my usual caveat here: claims > of > sterility in the older literature have to be taken with caution. Often the > "sterility" in question is the result of a triploid condition in a > population which is otherwise diploid. Such triploids often give abundant > viable seed when pollinated by tetraploids. > > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA > zone > 7 > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:45:17 -0400 > From: "Jim McKenney" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold' > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" > Message-ID: <001c01c88941$5c039f80$2f01a8c0@Library> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I noticed that David (thank you) unobtrusively corrected the typo in the > subject line of my original post for this thread. > > Aside from the embarrassment, there is a practical aspect to this that's > on > my mind. > > If we correct typos in the subject line, will the messages with the > correction link with the ones with the typo for search purposes? > > Jim McKenney > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:47:43 +1100 > From: "Paul T." > Subject: Re: [pbs] Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold' > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <6eq1ke$5p6r1o@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out4.iinet.net.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > >> >>To answer your other question, Paul, I think I've read that the original >>'Guinea Gold' is/was "sterile". I'll repeat my usual caveat here: claims >>of >>sterility in the older literature have to be taken with caution. Often the >>"sterility" in question is the result of a triploid condition in a >>population which is otherwise diploid. Such triploids often give abundant >>viable seed when pollinated by tetraploids. > > Or, of course, they were sterile in those conditions, but taken into > other conditions they were no longer sterile. I often here talk of > particular things which are sterile in such-and-such a country, but > here in Aus (or vice versa) they produce seed. Sometimes a change in > environment can beat that sterility, and all it takes is one beating > of that sterility to start producing those seedlings that muddy the > waters as to the name being a clone or a group. And that is leaving > aside the just plain "wrong thing under wrong name" problem that > brings named clones uniqueness undone. > > Cheers. > > Paul T. > Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 > > Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world > including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, > Galanthus, Irises, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about > anything else that doesn't move!! > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 62, Issue 24 > *********************************** From carlobal@netzero.net Tue Mar 18 18:45:57 2008 Message-Id: <20080318.184212.24263.0@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.net" Subject: Aff - able? Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:42:12 GMT Carrying John's point forward, "aff." in my mind, is an appellation applied when a more precise identification can not, or has not YET been made. I view it as an indication that the jury is out, not as part of a name. Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com _____________________________________________________________ Click for top financial advice. Reduce debt & save for retirement. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4tx36o8FnKZVaC7zltJHYPij3f0JawON2OAHr0gChl5IT50R/ From totototo@telus.net Tue Mar 18 19:39:25 2008 Message-Id: <20080318233834.ED8RWU2FQG@priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Eranthis hyemails 'Guinea Gold' Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:39:23 -0700 On 19 Mar 08, at 7:54, Paul T. wrote: > Does the "aff" tag fit here? Never quite sure how it is > applied. Always think of it as meaning "related to" or "possibly" > when I see it in naming. Try "looks a lot like X." The qualifying phrase "to me" is implicit, methinks. AFAIK (as far as I know) "aff" is used for as-yet unidentified plants. It serves as a rough description by reference to another, known species that it resembles reasonably closely. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@telus.net Tue Mar 18 19:39:29 2008 Message-Id: <20080318233834.146VXGB6NL@priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Eranthis hyemails 'Guinea Gold' Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:39:23 -0700 On 18 Mar 08, at 15:41, Jim McKenney wrote: > I think I follow you, Roger. > > If so, then to indicate that scenario where all the claimants to the > name Guinea Gold are grouped, should we write Eranthis hyemalis > Tubergenii Group Guinea Gold Group? Eranthis hyemalis Guinea Gold > Group? Eranthis Guinea Gold Group? I think not. "Guinea Gold" is a clonal name, or at least seems to interpreted in that light, so is only applicable to vegetative descendants of the original seedling. "Tubergenii" is a group name that can be used as "Tubergenii Group" or as " × tubergenii", more or less to taste. The word "grex" may be lurking in the bushes somewhere, making faint rustling noises, but I know it not. IOW, you can write for the authentic, echt-Guinea Gold plant, presuming you can nail it down 1. Eranthis × tubergenii 'Guinea Gold' or 2. Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold' The point being that the Guinea Gold lookalikes *are* the Tubergenii Group. Don't sue me if I'm wrong. Read this all with a grain of salt, because I'm not a real expert on such nomenclatural matters; I only pretend to be one. > Is there a better way? Absolutely. You can join my new religion, pay me all your money, chant the mantras, wear the funny robes, do the yogic poses, contemplate suitably zenoid questions, attend lengthy midnight ceremonies where there are no chairs, and enlightenment will be yours. Maybe. The line forms to the left, ladies and gentlemen. I'm not a real guru or prophet, however; I only pretend to be one. [It's spring, the sap is rising, and some people's senses of humor are working overtime.] -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From carlobal@netzero.net Tue Mar 18 19:47:02 2008 Message-Id: <20080318.194611.3691.0@webmail12.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.net" Subject: Eranthis hyemails 'Guinea Gold' Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:46:11 GMT Which makes you, Rodger, an "aff. guru/prophet" Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com _____________________________________________________________ Learn how to build web sites. Find a web design school near you. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4vCsYXBqJCo0x2ezeHaCtc5aLsEGMXS4EKHzqi1rNGrvDYZv/ From pcamusa@hotmail.com Tue Mar 18 19:47:06 2008 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: Heaving lessons for those in mild climates Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:46:57 -0400 > Is there something comparable in mild climates? Do mild > climates have heaving too? No heaving in Zone 11, but at least heaving lays your labels gently near their origin. Hurricanes, over-enthusiastic raking, and the neighbor's terriers (& chickens) mean that I have resorted to burying the labels with the bulbs and dig them up if I want to refresh my memory (which is increasingly often). My GPS doesn't give fine enough resolution and the grid system I set up years ago was just too much trouble (the dogs got most of the stakes). Still looking for ideas........... Regards, Phil _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Mar 18 20:21:54 2008 Message-Id: <001d01c88957$84694270$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Aff - able? Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:23:54 -0400 John Grimshaw wrote: "I am surprised at the usually so-precise Jim McKenney's outburst against the invaluable word affinis, abbreviated to aff...Aff. means quite clearly and simply, 'akin to...’" John, let me see if I can persuade you that I am trying to be as precise as I usually try to be. Because there appears to be a compliment of sorts to me in the quote above, I will attempt in my response to be affable and to avoid outbursts. I object to the use of this term affinis in the way being discussed because it is illogical: it does not deliver what it promises. It purports to state the very things which are in fact unknown: relationship and identity. The word akin expresses natural relationship, not mere similarity. What sense does it make to use the word akin before such natural relationship is established? This distinction between natural relationship and mere similarity is the salient difference between modern taxonomy and taxonomy as practiced up until the beginning of the twentieth century. Isn't this usage of affinis a vestige of nineteenth century taxonomic practice and thought, a vestige of the times when taxonomists believed that if things looked alike, they must be related? You know as well as I do that similar appearance does not necessarily indicate natural relationship. A better term would be simulans, in the sense of resembling. That word avoids any implication of necessary biological relationship. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Tue Mar 18 20:54:23 2008 Message-Id: <6352518.1205888063188.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: Aff - able? Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:54:22 -0500 (GMT-05:00) -----Original Message----- > >I object to the use of this term affinis in the way being discussed because >it is illogical: it does not deliver what it promises. It purports to state >the very things which are in fact unknown: relationship and identity. > Consanguineous has now become my preferred term. I'll change labels in the morning. Gladiolus ulysae in bloom. Love this little flower. Best, M From carlobal@netzero.net Tue Mar 18 21:24:46 2008 Message-Id: <20080318.212332.24028.0@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.net" Subject: Aff - able? Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 01:23:32 GMT Except that "simulans" is already a specific epithet. Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com _____________________________________________________________ Get educated. Click here for Adult Education programs. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4uIzrHjM9Bno2Mg8txlttlZRPowhrGEtfzjuDvGRx2bfdzjn/ From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Mar 18 21:48:18 2008 Message-Id: <000001c88963$9c551b50$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Aff - able? Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:50:28 -0400 Carlo wrote: "Except that "simulans" is already a specific epithet." Achaetogeron affinis Acmella affinis Acosta affinis Ainsliaea affinis Antennaria affinis Artemisis affinis Baeria affinis Cacalia affinis Carduus affinis et al. How many will it take to convince you, Carlo? Jim McKenney From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Mar 18 22:07:49 2008 Message-Id: <000101c88966$55f2e3b0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Aff - able? Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:09:58 -0400 Consanguineous? Mark, I thought that was only used with genera such as Dracula, Sanguinaria, Haemanthus, Haematoxylon and Arisaema. Jim McKenney From carlobal@netzero.net Tue Mar 18 22:52:19 2008 Message-Id: <20080318.225057.7192.0@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.net" Subject: Aff - able? Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 02:50:57 GMT Point taken...have we exhausted this linguistic bender? Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com _____________________________________________________________ Get educated. Click here for Adult Education programs. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4uIzrTru4MR0D81TO13O6BaEvaRJZN5IgmCszjiT6uAhwnm1/ From othonna@gmail.com Tue Mar 18 23:14:16 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260803182014q3c31e8e4s3f10f6962573fa4@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Aff - able? Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:14:14 -0700 I would like to follow up John Grimshaw's response by mentioning the term "cf." (literally = "compare with"). It is also a staple of botanists and plantsmen and serves a similar but different purpose. My interpretation and experience of "affinis" is that it is used where the entity in question is decidedly or most probably does not belong with the name given, such as Narcissus aff. bulbocodium, but represents an allied or affiliated taxon that is in need of further study and could prove to be new to science. By contrast "cf.", as in Narcissus cf. bulbocodium, indicates that the plant in question could very well be this species but needs confirmation. Both cf. and aff. are temporary designations, though they can be appended to a plant for many years, and they serve mainly to bring attention to the fact that taxonomic sleuthing is needed. They are steps in a process that have led to important increases in knowledge and understanding and can also prevent plants being named incorrectly. Both of these designations are very useful when the name of a plant is in doubt. Since this uncertainty is an unavoidable condition for plant aficionados at times it is well to take advantage of these abbreviations that are normally more a vexation to data bases than to growers. The alternatives range from using the mystic "?" in connection with a doubtful name or abandoning the nuances of plant identification altogether. Dylan Hannon On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 3:21 PM, John Grimshaw wrote: > I am surprised at the usually so-precise Jim McKenney's outburst against > the > invaluable word affinis, abbreviated to aff. > > > Paul mentioned the despicable practice (no bad reflection meant on you, > Paul) of using the abbreviation aff. in naming plants. Aff. is neo-Latin > for > "beats me, I guess it's [fill in the blank]" Since all living things are > presumably related at one level or another, every living thing is "aff" > every other living thing to some degree. And so this aff. business doesn't > tell us much. > > Aff. means quite clearly and simply, 'akin to, bordering' (see Stearn's > 'Botanical Latin'), and this is the sense in which it is used by every > competent botanist. Those of us who attempt to identify wild (or even > garden) plants will inevitably come across specimens that do not quite > seem > to match a description, or a comparative specimen, but seem to be akin to, > or bordering on it; these will rightly and properly be annotated as aff. > species X. It indicates that further study is required, perhaps to reveal > a > wider variation than previously recorded in a species' morphology, or > perhaps indeed suggesting that it is a hitherto undescribed taxon - that's > when aff. becomes fun. > > John Grimshaw > > > Dr John M. Grimshaw > Sycamore Cottage > Colesbourne > Nr Cheltenham > Gloucestershire GL53 9NP > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From msittner@mcn.org Wed Mar 19 00:01:14 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080318201033.03513410@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions-- Gladiolus Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:47:56 -0700 I've finished splitting up the Southern African Gladiolus pages which was a big job. New photos from Bob Werra, Cameron McMaster, Bob Rutemoeller, Rod Saunders, and myself. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusOne On this wiki page I added an additional picture of Gladiolus angustus, new species G. arcuatus, new species Gladiolus aureus, new species Gladiolus bonaspei, a new picture of G. brevifolius and a new picture of G. bullatus. I really enjoyed the first flowering for me this year of Gladiolus bonaspei which held up well in our winter rainfall. Other species sometimes fall over. My last picture even has raindrops on it. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusTwo#cardinalis Additional picture of G. cardinalis http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusThree New pictures of G. cunonius, G. dalenii, new species G. densiflorus, a picture of a pink specimen of Gladious ecklonii, new picture of G. equitans http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusFour New species G. fourcadei, additional pictures of G. guthriei and G. huttonii, new species G. hyalinus http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusFive New species G. inflatus, new picture of G. liliaceus, new species G. longicollis, new pictures of G. maculatus, new species G. marlothii http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusSix Additional new photos of G. monticola, G. orchidiflorus, G. papilio, and G. pappei http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusSeven New photos of G. permeabilis, G. pritzelii, new species G. pubigerus, new pictures of G. quadrangularis, G. rudis, and G. scullyi http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusEight New species G. serpenticola, new pictures of G. speciosus, G. splendens, and G. tristis. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusNine New photos of G. undulatus, G. uysiae, new species G. vinosomaculatus, new picture of a pink G. virescens grown by Alan Horstmann, new photos of G. watermeyeri and G. watsonius, new species G. wilsonii In pots or my garden right now blooming are G. tristis, G. caeruleus, G. aureus, G. huttoni, hybrids of G. huttoni and G. tristis, G. virescens (which is wonderfully fragrant), and G. hyalinus. There are some others spiking and some that were eaten by something before they bloomed that otherwise would be blooming now. Mary Sue From djordan68@comcast.net Tue Mar 18 23:51:58 2008 Message-Id: From: "Deborah Jordan" Subject: glad germination/other topics Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:48:35 -0500 Diane--I get my seed from South Africa; SilverHill and 2 other friends that trade me glad seed for Zephyranthes and Habranthes species which I have an over abundance of all summer long and they want. In fact, they are my best bargaining "chip" for trading, I have a very large collection of these because they are so easy down here. I also save my own seed. I like seeds from other sources too (of any species) for genetic diversity, even if I already grow some. Jim--I do also do a lot of other things besides glads--was just trying to stay on topic; well, stay on topic other than my rant about the heat down here and the challenges it presents. I do a lot of Iridaceae from the Cape, South America, Mexico and Texas too. I have a pretty large collection of Texas natives--I even do some of the more bizarre Texas bulbs like Schencaulon texanum. Ken--Respectfully, nothing but very moisture-retentive mediums work on the top of anything down here for seed germination. I've tried grit, pumice, sands of all sizes, you name it; I've tried it. Otherwise, July through September, I'd have to water 3 times a day. I do add perlite and pea gravel if I need more drainage lower in the pot--just doesn't work on top for germination. Once the seeds (of any kind) have germinated, its another matter. Sometimes I put pea gravel on the top as a visual reminder not to water this one too much. Jim W-- I haven't had the joys of heaving but I do experience the joys of the drought/deluge cycle. It seldom rains lightly down here; if it rains, 2"-4" at a time are not uncommon; although we only got about an inch today and it fell rather softly. As we are fond of saying down here, "We live in a constant state of drought frequently interrupted by deluges". Carlos--Thank You! **I am not guilty of taking that last copy of SubTropical glads from that first source but I did get one from abebooks, thanks for that info. I already have the Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs so thought I should get this one over the other Glad book. **Did anyone but me see those Breezand Dutch show pics with the huge display of Narcissus 'Chromacolor' (thank you for all those additions Jay) from Daffnet? That was one "over the top" show, no? **In my opinion, if Janis Ruksans says he's never seen a real Eranis tubergenii (disclaimer here--I know nothing about the bulb) I tend to believe him. In my opinion, he's phenomenal. ;) Debbie Houston, Texas (where G tristis is budded up and about to bloom and remains wet all year long) From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Mar 19 00:44:04 2008 Message-Id: <42935C35-EFB0-4CA0-9A5A-E016A2F00D4B@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: glad germination/other topics Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:43:44 -0700 Deborah, I wondered if you were developing fast-germinating seeds by growing your own seeds over several generations. However, if you are getting your seeds from South Africa, as I am, then perhaps mine will germinate faster if I keep them hotter than 18 C (70 F). Maybe on top of my water heater. I'll experiment with my next sowing. Diane From LucGBulot@aol.com Wed Mar 19 04:41:29 2008 Message-Id: <8CA57B42573E124-728-1DA6@WEBMAIL-MA16.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Open nomenclature from the palaeontology point of view Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 04:41:23 -0400 Hi all, Quite an interesting debate in many ways that I will try to enlight from the palaeontologist point of view... aff., cf. and gr., sp. nov. 1, etc... are some of the many abreviations used in binomial nomenclature in Paleontology (both palaeozoology and palaebotany) when there is problem with the "true" identity and affinities of a specimen. All are considered as marking "open nomenclature",?outlines a preliminary stage of study and and indicates that the specimen concerned may change status in the future pending better understanding of its "biological significance". They have been many disputes in the literature on the use of the various abreviations and how they should apply. In my concern, one of the main problems lies in the fact that neither the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature, nor the International Code of Botanic Nomenclature make it clear of how aff., cf., gr., and others should be used... Of course in Palaeontology the problem is somehow "easier" since the nomenclature and phylogeny, for obvious preservation problems, is mainly based on morphological features and their is most often no access to DNA data. Hope it helps, Luc From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Wed Mar 19 05:52:03 2008 Message-Id: <00c701c889a6$db8d0dd0$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Aff - able? Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:51:50 -0000 I'm sorry that I have to continue this pointless discussion, as I have far better things to do, but I have been challenged to respond and therefore must do so. I can only reiterate that the whole point of the use of aff. or cf. (etc) is, as also patiently explained by Dylan Hannon, to indicate a perceived relationship or similarity between specimens under consideration. Whether this is a real kinship or not is totally immaterial; that is what the further study indicated by the use of such a cipher will determine. If this term is as inaccurate as Jim McKenney seems to think, it is very curious that the world's botanists are perfectly happy to use it in their day to day work (without requiring any form of definition or rules for usage). John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McKenney" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 12:23 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Aff - able? John Grimshaw wrote: "I am surprised at the usually so-precise Jim McKenney's outburst against the invaluable word affinis, abbreviated to aff...Aff. means quite clearly and simply, 'akin to...'" John, let me see if I can persuade you that I am trying to be as precise as I usually try to be. Because there appears to be a compliment of sorts to me in the quote above, I will attempt in my response to be affable and to avoid outbursts. I object to the use of this term affinis in the way being discussed because it is illogical: it does not deliver what it promises. It purports to state the very things which are in fact unknown: relationship and identity. The word akin expresses natural relationship, not mere similarity. What sense does it make to use the word akin before such natural relationship is established? This distinction between natural relationship and mere similarity is the salient difference between modern taxonomy and taxonomy as practiced up until the beginning of the twentieth century. Isn't this usage of affinis a vestige of nineteenth century taxonomic practice and thought, a vestige of the times when taxonomists believed that if things looked alike, they must be related? You know as well as I do that similar appearance does not necessarily indicate natural relationship. A better term would be simulans, in the sense of resembling. That word avoids any implication of necessary biological relationship. From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed Mar 19 08:47:01 2008 Message-Id: <000301c889bf$a16dddf0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Aff - able? Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:49:10 -0400 John Grimshaw wrote: " If this term is as inaccurate as Jim McKenney seems to think, it is very curious that the world's botanists are perfectly happy to use it in their day to day work (without requiring any form of definition or rules for usage)." What's curious about that, John? I never questioned the word's utility, I questioned its logic. Aren't these the same botanists who for generations have used the ranks Varietas, Forma (and even subdivisions of those) in their naming conventions? Aren't these at least in part the same botanists who have been "perfectly happy" to contentedly wallow in this illogical scheme? In fact, aren't these at least in part the same botanists who over and over have shot first and asked questions later by assigning new taxa to a particular rank before data supporting such a decision were available? If they are indeed "perfectly happy", perhaps it's because there is so little for which they have to answer. Jim McKenney From msittner@mcn.org Wed Mar 19 11:10:59 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080319073959.015f9ea8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Descriptive terms for unidentified bulbs Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:10:42 -0700 Thanks to all of you who helped explain all the terms it is possible to use instead of a question mark when you don't know what something is. It gives us a lot more choices to use on our tags while indicating that we aren't quite sure what it is. It seems so much better to associate the unknown with something that it might be related to than have it be completely a mystery. I think there are probably members of our list who never understood these terms who might not have wanted to ask about them and now know. I've been using aff. for the Romulea species that I grew from seed exchange seed misnamed Romulea linaresii and Romulea ramiflora . Most people consider these plants to be a form of Romulea bulbocodium even though some books describe that species as having a stigma that overtops the stamens and these flowers have short stigmas about the same height as the stamens. It sounds like perhaps I could have been using Romulea cf. bulbocodium instead of Romulea aff. bulbocodium. Since I'm not a taxonomist or a botanist, just a gardener, I am happy that there are terms I can use in a situation like this one. The plant in question is a real winner in my garden, blooming reliably every year and increasing nicely so I can plant it in different places and share with others. For years I wondered about sp. nov. used in so many books. I decided it must be a term used for a new species that someone was researching, but perhaps someone would like to explain what it means as well. Mary Sue From LucGBulot@aol.com Wed Mar 19 12:11:41 2008 Message-Id: <8CA57F30B6A9F6C-E50-76C@WEBMAIL-MB16.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: sp. nov. Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:11:38 -0400 Dear Mary Sue, sp. nov. means species nova (new species)... when an author uses it without giving a formal name it usualy means that the material at his disposal suggests that the species is a new one but is not sufficient to create the new species and typified it... I have done that myself at many occasions in the fossil world... It can happen that in the same publication a series of specimens can be refered as sp. nov. A, B, C, or 1, 2, 3. In any case it means that the specimens pends a more dedicated study... Hope it helps, Luc From LucGBulot@aol.com Wed Mar 19 12:24:37 2008 Message-Id: <8CA57F4D8155A92-E50-846@WEBMAIL-MB16.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: : Aff - able? Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:24:31 -0400 Dear Jim, Being a systematician and taxonomist myself, even not a botanist, I think that you should keep in mind at least two principles: 1 - Living world does not fit in any proper mathematical equations (and if it does we just don't know yet how it does)... 2 - Systematics and phylogenetics, whether they use " the old days standard (e.g. morphology)" or the "new days standards" (e.g. DNA), just represent a state of the art in our understanding of relationship between species (nobody really knows what a species is anymore), genus (a typical "classification draw" for the comfort of human beings) and whatever rank above it... Saying that I just wish to point out that botany classification, just as zoology, is mainly a reflexion of our curent knowledge about some specific aspects of plants biology and by no means should be regarded as the "Truth" in a biblic sense of it. Confusing systematics and open nomenclature just reflects how poor is our knowledge of the living world and how much is still in front of us when it comes to descriptions of plants not just as individuals within a population (the old typoligical "species concept) but as member of the population and a living entity... Well I should just stop before I go too philosophical... I have had no other aim while writing those lines than pointing out the so little we know compared to the so much in front of us... Best wishes.. Luc From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Mar 19 12:27:29 2008 Message-Id: <05D1E34D-A9C0-44AE-A89E-BF9A37267426@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Albuca superfast germinators Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:27:07 -0700 I sowed Albuca shawii and A. aurea two days ago and many have germinated. Some radicles are 5 mm long already. They might have started sprouting as soon as they got moist, but I didn't look at them till today. Are these desert plants that grow as soon as they sense moisture, flower and seed fast, and then die? Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed Mar 19 12:31:36 2008 Message-Id: <000801c889de$fb87b8a0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: flower color in Eranthis 'Guinea Gold' and Freesia viridis Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:33:32 -0400 Little Freesia viridis is in bloom this morning, and it’s teaching me an interesting lesson. In the Eranthis ‘Guinea Gold’ thread, several commentators have mentioned that ‘Guinea Gold’ was said to have bronze-colored foliage. I went out and checked my ‘Guinea Gold’ (which one side of me wants very much to be true to name), and the best I can do with the foliage I saw was to describe some of it as perhaps olive green. Bronze is sometimes described as yellowish-brown, and that’s close to olive green. Does that mean that my plant is true to name? It’s easy to have doubts, especially when there is a lacuna in the tradition (or a lapsus on the label), and given all of the monkey business going on, it’s good to have doubts. But it’s also good to have a broad perspective in order to be aware of what the possibilities are. When Freesia viridis bloomed last year, the flowers were chartreuse green. The base of the flower was paler green, the sort of color seen in Gladiolus tristis. The distal third of the flower was greener. This year’s flowers are different. The distal portions of the flower are as green as those seen last year, but the basal two thirds of the flower is maroon. This makes a very handsome color contrast. I’ve uploaded images to the wiki so you can see this difference. Take a look at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Freesia I have only one plant of Freesia viridis: in other words, chameleon-like this plant has changed its colors from one year to the next. The plant grows in a protected cold frame. I call this one, in the tradition of all the great nomina nuda (not to be confused with nominal nudists), Freesia viridis var. inconstans forma aphidophora. : ) In a related post, Debbi expressed her admiration (which I enthusiastically share) of Janis Ruksans, and went on to say that if Ruksans says he has never seen a bulb of ‘Guinea Gold’, then she’ll believe him. If he said that, then I’ll believe it, too. But if it’s true, I’m inclined to say that it brings into doubt his qualifications for speaking with authority on the identity of the plant. I think it would behoove us to be more interested in the opinions of those whose connections with the real plant are more certain. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where Dracunculus vulgaris is over a foot out of the ground. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From davidxvictor@btinternet.com Wed Mar 19 13:14:37 2008 Message-Id: <20080319171433.6785A4C015@lists.ibiblio.org> From: David Victor Subject: Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold' Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:14:25 +0000 Hi Jim, Firstly, my apologies for interfering with your original. As you indicate, I have no idea what the consequences might be so I really should not have done it. David, you sort of touched on the aspect of the capital G Group concept which appeals to me so greatly, and which makes it such a useful tool when sorting out plants without pedigrees: while it's axiomatic that the categories of formal botany not be polyphyletic, the elements which make up a capital G Group may be polyphyletic. Exactly right. As far as I read the rules, the basis of the Group can be as wide or as narrow as the author wishes, so long as he properly describes and publishes it. Its intentionally a practical tool for the use of horticulturalists. Of course, the more useful it is the more it will be used, the more useless it is, the reverse. Has no subset (i.e. capital G Group) of Tubergenii Group been named for the group of cultivars which are candidates for consideration as 'Guinea Gold'? The answer is that I really don't know. In particular, I don't know what the desciption of Tubergenii Group is or where it was published and I don't know if any other Group have been published which would be more helpful and which include 'Guinea Gold'. The person who should know that is the International Cultivar Registrar (I'm that for Geranium and Erodium only) who is based at the Royal General Bulbgrowers Association in the Netherlands (who does a wide range of hardy bulbs). But every once and a while one runs across a plant which has the sort of characteristics which make an exceptional garden plant and seems to answer to one's preconceived notion of what 'Guinea Gold' should be. These have presumably been the source of the "false Guinea Golds" said to be making the rounds. I guess that the reason the Group was created was that there were so many "close relations" floating around without any clear idea of the original cultivar. That probably became problem due to a careless original description of the cultivar that was so wide as to include many of its subsequent off-spring. Best regards, David Victor From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Mar 19 12:49:00 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080319104958.01706108@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Descriptive terms for unidentified bulbs Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:54:27 -0700 I'm sorry to keep this thread up, but had to comment on: >It sounds like perhaps I could have been using Romulea cf. >bulbocodium instead of Romulea aff. bulbocodium. A botanist once told be that "cf." should not be used unless one has actually compared (one meaning of conferre) the plant in question with herbarium specimens. It this is so, "aff." would be safer for those of us who don't have access to the world's herbaria. However, I shall continue to use question marks, particularly on the totally confusing green-and-brown Fritillaria species, quite a lot of which are now in flower here. Jane McGary From djordan68@comcast.net Wed Mar 19 14:59:31 2008 Message-Id: From: "Deborah Jordan" Subject: Albuca superfast germinators Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:56:08 -0500 Diane-- Albuca's definitely germinate fast for me too, outside from February on--usually about 2 weeks in containers. They tolerate a lot of neglect from me (i.e. I forget to water the seedlings a lot and full blazing Texas sun as seedlings too) and like it on the dry side in the winter; but tolerate a fair amount of winter rainfall too. What's also nice about them, in my opinion anyway, is that they form nice, good sized bulbs in the first growing season. I do A aurea, A nelsonii, and something that came to me as A humilis. I've also got some A clanwilliamgloria hopefully on its way from SilverHIll--I ordered that one because the picture was nice in the Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs and I thought the name was cool. Not a very scientific way of making a decision but the others I have grow well, so hopefully that one will too. I like this species because its easy and fun. Debbie From Pelarg@aol.com Wed Mar 19 18:12:00 2008 Message-Id: From: Pelarg@aol.com Subject: Albuca superfast germinators Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:11:17 EDT Albuca shawii is a grassland plant, I believe, from the summer rainfall areas of South Africa. Here, just a few miles north of the Bronx, NYC line, it is perfectly hardy, even though the bulbs do not go deep into the ground. Certainly no desert here, and they get quite wet in winter as well. Galtonia candicans also does well nearby. Ernie **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Mar 19 18:30:30 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: A warm sunny day Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:30:38 -0500 Dear friends, A warm sunny day -finally. 60 degrees and a warm sun on me; perfect for potting up some bulbs- a grand gift from a friend. And it must be nearly spring as Leucojum vernum carpaticum are up and blooming while Galanthus still look good. Crocus tomm. 'Ruby Giant' is popping out and a variety of other crocus even a Dutch hybrid or two which seems a bit early. Now daily inspections seek out the late fall planting and hoping they will be up and growing well soon. Looking for the tips of the foliage whether it is Lycoris or Fritillaria- each is a find and degree of relief (it made it through the winter !). So the first warm sunny day is a time for optimism. What could possibly go wrong ? Smiling Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From Pelarg@aol.com Wed Mar 19 19:22:43 2008 Message-Id: From: Pelarg@aol.com Subject: Albuca superfast germinators Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:22:29 EDT Hi Linda, My zone would be 6 or 7. Temps rarely get below zero, but usually drop into the single digits at least a couple of times per winter (this winter has been mild, the lowest temps were maybe around 10F briefly). It does get colder rather quickly as one moves north of here. This winter has been rainy with brief cold spells, right now it is pouring outside. Albuca shawii emerges fairly late, so the biggest danger to it around here is me digging them up while planting other things. As an indicator of this winters mildness, there are still a few green leaves at the ends of the branches on an Artemesia afra. Usually it dies back and resprouts from a few inches of stems at the base each year. I also imagine that the figs in the neighborhood did not die back this winter, as they will during a bad winter (like three years ago, I think), but it will be some time before they leaf out. Spring is beginning, with eranthis, iris reticulata, and crocus in bloom. A daffodil planted against a wall in my school garden in Chappaqua is about to open, rather earlier than others in the area. Also against the wall small seedlings of the South African tree Leucosidea sericea are still in full leaf, it is remarkably hardy for a woody SA plant. Ernie **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Wed Mar 19 18:54:48 2008 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: Albuca superfast germinators Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:54:39 -0700 Ernie, What zone are you there that albuca shawii is in the ground and hardy? That's pretty amazing! Linda From Pelarg@aol.com Wed Mar 19 21:06:27 2008 Message-Id: From: Pelarg@aol.com Subject: Albuca superfast germinators also albuca hardiness Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:06:23 EDT Hi Linda, Nothing special for the albuca, except that it gets a lot of sun, and I try not to let it get overwhelmed by nearby plants. It is near a street corner, in a section of garden that has to be protected with fabric tied to fencing in winter from our town's salt throwing trucks that seem to emerge at the sight of a single snowflake. I'd say the bulbs, which are fairly flattish in shape, are about an inch, if even that, below the surface. Soil around this house is probably neutral to somewhat basic, as it is full of marble and near an old marble quarry. Maple tree roots need to be chopped out periodically, since my wife and I live on the second floor of my folks house (if I owned it, there would be no maple trees!). The patch of albuca can get dry in summer, but I do water as needed. I sometimes hand pollinate when they flower among the different plants, they do seem to set more seed than if one leaves it up to mother nature to do the job. As with other seeds, I refrigerate them a few months after harvest, albuca seeds will last much longer in the fridge than at room temps. When I worked at the NYBG, I grew Delosperma "congestum" from seed I got from Panayoti, it did very well in a sand bed, but was prone to rot off in garden soil. Amazing plant when it is covered with white eyed screaming yellow flowers. It is hardier than most other mesembs if well drained in winter (though like the others it likes water in summer). I have some now in a pot on a terrace, which I bring in when temps drop below the teens, since it does get rained on a lot in the winter. Zone three might be pushing it for even Albuca shawii, it would be really interesting to see if it survives there ---I don't think I could, either : ) . I'd think your best chances would be with species that grow on the Drakensberg escarpment, look for anything that grows at 3000 meters or above in the SA field guides. Does Galtonia candicans survive outdoors for you? Hope the info helps, Ernie **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed Mar 19 21:07:07 2008 Message-Id: <001b01c88a26$ffc4b150$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Allium obliquum and crocus; was RE: Albuca superfast germinators also albuca hardiness Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:09:02 -0400 Linda, you mentioned Allium obliquum. How far out of the ground is it up there in zone 3? Here in zone 7 Maryland it’s now about seven inches out of the ground. At 8:30 P.M. tonight the air temperature was still in the mid 60s F. The three Magnolia stellata in the garden are just about in full bloom and really pumping out the fragrance. When I poked my head out the door, it sounded as if a zillion peepers were at it. It’s been trying to rain all day, and so the ground is wet and the air is moist. It’s a great night for walking in the rain. The weather played a trick on the crocus today. Most crocus open in response to temperature (warmth opens them) rather than light conditions. Earlier today, it was heavily overcast and raining. But the air temperature was in the upper 60s F. The crocus were wide open in the rain – and all of their ripe pollen was presumably washed away. It was the same with some of the kaufmanniana hybrid tulips. One of my favorite color combinations in crocus is the amethyst and silver combination seen in some of the tommies. The tommies themselves took a beating in the rain today, but their larger congeners the cultivars ‘Yalta’ and ‘Vanguard’ are now just starting. These provide the same color combination in much larger flowers. Fresh, newly opening buds of either the silver and amethyst tommies or of these bigger cultivars are well worth watching during the morning as they open. The silver outer tepals are a perfect foil for the intense amethyst of the inner tepals; when they are partially open, fresh blooms provide surprisingly intense color. It all passes so fast! Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Wed Mar 19 20:31:40 2008 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: Albuca superfast germinators also albuca hardiness Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:31:28 -0700 Thank you Ernie, can you give me some more details? How deep do you have it planted and how is it sited? Against the house, out in the open garden? Did you do anything special to the medium it's planted in? I am always one to attempt to push the limits and zone 6 or 7 is not that far off my zone 3. Ha ha! Not bulbous, but delosperma aff. congestum (just repeating what was written on the seed pack) survived in the open rock garden this past winter. Our lowest temp this past winter was -49C or -56F, but we had a good 6 - 8 inches of snow cover. I've found albuca to be quite speedy in germination as well. I've had excellent results with Silverhill seed and my collection (obsession) now includes a. altissima, a. angolensis, a. aurea, a. batteniana, a. clanwilliamgloria, a. cooperi, a. echinosperma, a. fastigiata, a. flaccida ?, a. glauca, a. humilis, a. juncifolia, a. maxima, a. nelsoni, a. rupestris, a. schonlandii, a. setosa, a. shawii, a. spiralis, and a. thrichophylla (this last one is a name change isn't it?) A couple more with just numbers for names (Silverhill), and a couple more new ones from the Seed Ex's this year. I also got an hippeastrum elwesii that I would bet a buck is an albuca as well. Debbie there is nothing wrong with obtaining because you like the name, that's what got me in to Albuca in the first place. Linda Zone 3 Okotoks, AB Canada Tarda tulips are up but not even close to blooming, allium obliquum looks like it is going to be stellar this year judging by the growth so far. From othonna@gmail.com Wed Mar 19 21:54:42 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260803191854g709c3fd6yf2fa56aa778d4810@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Descriptive terms for unidentified bulbs Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:54:38 -0700 I don't know that anyone should feel sorry for keeping up this interesting thread, so long as we are learning from it. It touches on certain minutiae that can exasperatingly difficult to clarify on one's own. I think more than a few growers have wondered after the meaning of "cf." and "aff." Jane's more restrictive use of "cf." is new to me but it seems this might quash civilian (non-scientific) use of the term. For the record the more ambiguous "?" is also commonly used in scientific circles, especially in herbaria as part of label annotations. In my own collection I mainly use cf. or aff. for plants that arrive with no name whatsoever. This is convenient in cases where I may be able to make a tentative identification, say from a wildflower book, but need better information to feel certain about a name. Rather than consulting an herbarium this often means waiting for an expert to turn up and issue a verdict using photos or live plants. Very few people live near an herbarium that is well-supplied with specimens relevant to what they grow. It is worth noting here that all of this is rather academic, as they say, when it comes to plants that have no provenance-- information about their wild origin. A plant of "garden origin" may remain without positive identification indefinitely as hybridization and genetic anomalies are more common than in material that can be traced back to a place in the wild. Dylan Hannon On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 10:54 AM, Jane McGary wrote: > I'm sorry to keep this thread up, but had to comment on: > >It sounds like perhaps I could have been using Romulea cf. > >bulbocodium instead of Romulea aff. bulbocodium. > > A botanist once told be that "cf." should not be used unless one has > actually compared (one meaning of conferre) the plant in question with > herbarium specimens. It this is so, "aff." would be safer for those of us > who don't have access to the world's herbaria. However, I shall continue > to > use question marks, particularly on the totally confusing green-and-brown > Fritillaria species, quite a lot of which are now in flower here. > > Jane McGary > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Wed Mar 19 22:00:09 2008 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: Allium obliquum and crocus; was RE: Albuca superfast germinators also albuca hardiness Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:00:04 -0700 >Linda, you mentioned Allium obliquum. How far out of the ground is it up there in zone 3? Here in zone 7 Maryland it’s now about seven inches out of the ground. A good 2 inches out of the ground now, but still with pink tips. From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Wed Mar 19 22:16:22 2008 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: Albuca superfast germinators also albuca hardiness Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:16:16 -0700 That does help considerably, thank you Ernie. I'm still amazed it survives for you there. And at only an inch below the surface. Cool! I wouldn't have dreamt of attempting albuca outside here, but with global warming and all it may soon be possible. I have an abundance of a. maxima bulbs, they would be the first attempt. My reasoning for attempting this one first is not only because of surplus but also I believe I could sink it fairly deep in the ground, below the frost line. My area is near desert conditions and it would be fairly easy to get medium conditions close. I do think I would run into too short a growing period, we average 112 frost free days. I haven't tried Galtonia, do you have pictures of yours you could put up on the wiki? Linda From carlobal@netzero.net Wed Mar 19 23:35:51 2008 Message-Id: <20080319.233416.16151.1@webmail12.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.net" Subject: Descriptive terms for unidentified bulbs Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 03:34:16 GMT Then again there's always "sp." and "cvr." Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com _____________________________________________________________ Product Reviews Read Unbiased Beauty Product Reviews and Join Our Product Review Team! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/JKFkuJkEF9WVpHOseK0uyMQ9SzCUeNn9YERQUCMiTJkZn7FLvpcOX7/ From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Thu Mar 20 01:29:21 2008 Message-Id: <002301c88a4b$582eedf0$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Albuca superfast germinators Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 05:29:17 -0000 The only place I've seen Albuca shawii growing wild is on a rocky outcrop on the slopes below the Ampitheatre in the Royal Natal National Park, in very thin soil. Rapid germination when moisture was adequate would make much sense in such a site. It is also a very fast grower, easily producing an inflorescence in its first growing season. For some reason I don't grow it now, alas. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 From cameron@haznet.co.za Thu Mar 20 02:21:25 2008 Message-Id: <016401c88a52$a1f79d90$503dd0c4@mcmasterdae8d5> From: "Cameron McMaster" Subject: Albuca shawii Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:19:48 +0200 My experience of Albuca shawii is that it is very widespread in the Eastern Cape occuring from rather arid lower altitude habitats in the Karoo, through the Eastern Cape thicket and grassland and up to the southern Drakensberg - so it is a very versatile species. We find it very easy to grow, seeding itself, and its very pretty. Cameron McMaster African Bulbs PO Box 26, Napier 7270 Tel/Fax: 028 423 3651 Mobile: 082 774 2075 Email: africanbulbs@haznet.co.za Website: www.africanbulbs.com From LucGBulot@aol.com Thu Mar 20 08:03:42 2008 Message-Id: <8CA5899907CDA22-C88-3089@Webmail-mg02.sim.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Drakensberg flora - some books Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:03:38 -0400 Dear All,   For those interested in the Afro-Montane Flora of Drakensberg and Lesotho, I strongly suggest the following readings :   Hilliard O. M. & Burtt B. L. 1987. The Botany of the Southern Natal Drakensberg. Annals of Kirtenbosch Botanic Gardens, vol. 15, National Botanic Gardens.   Hilliard O. 1990. Flowers of the Natal Drakensberg – The lily, iris and orchid families and their allies. Ukhahlamba Series n° 2, University of Natal Press.   Pooley, E. 1993. Mountain Flowers – A field guide of the Drakensberg and Lesotho. The Flora Publications Trust (www.floratrustkzn.com). There is a lot more books and publications on the topic and I can provide a somehow exhaustive list to those interested... (I visited some part of Drakensberg in 2002 and this explains why I am documented on the Flora of this area). I know that Delosperma is out of the topic of the list but again I can encourage our members interested in this genus to contact me privately for a list a hardy species. I must just outline that the genus Delosperma is in need of a revision and this applies even more to the Drakensberg species. Interesting references includes: Hargreaves B. J. 1992. Mesembs of Lesotho. Excelsa 15: 97-98. Hargreaves B. J. 1989. Succulents in the snow. Succulents of Lesotho. Part 2. Cact. Succ. J. (USA), 61(2): 81-86.   Hargreaves B. J. 1989. Succulents in the snow: succulents of Lesotho. Part 1. Cact. Succ. J. (U.S.A.) 61(1): 22-25. I was thinking to make a list of the geophytes from the Drakensberg with the elevation range that migh prove usefull for the ones whom wish to test the species hardiness. Hope it helps the one interested, Luc Hargreaves B. J. 1989. Succulents in the snow. Succulents of Lesotho. Part 2. Cact. Succ. J. (USA), 61(2): 81-86.   Hargreaves B. J. 1989. Succulents in the snow: succulents of Lesotho. Part 1. Cact. Succ. J. (U.S.A.) 61(1): 22-25. I was thinking to make a list of the geophytes from the Drakensberg with the elevation range that migh prove usefull for the ones whom wish to test the species hardiness. Hope it helps the one interested, Luc From khixson@nu-world.com Thu Mar 20 12:09:53 2008 Message-Id: <47E28C35.7040407@nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Trimming Roots of Potted bulbs Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 09:09:25 -0700 Dear Members: In a current article on Pot Culture of Lilies, one of the comments made is that the roots are trimmed to 2 1/2 to 3 inches. For years, the claim was made that imported lily bulbs didn't grow well because the roots were usually trimmed. Well, is the claim faulty, or is trimming the roots a bad suggestion? Then, I was taught that roots were only able to absorb nutrients for-at most-an inch back of the growing tip of the root. Trimming roots back would remove the part that is able to absorb nutrients. Yes, the roots are possibly old, but any possible new growth is being sacrificed. Yes, lilies do make new roots, but why not either remove the roots completely, or not trim them at all? Admittedly, roots also serve to anchor the plant, and a couple inches would be better than none, but why injure the roots instead of potting up the whole root system? There are a lot of "old wives tales" in gardening, things that are done because that's how it's always been done. Is this an example? Ken From silverhill@yebo.co.za Thu Mar 20 12:11:48 2008 Message-Id: <0c0101c88aa5$15cc5a10$1400a8c0@server01> From: "Rachel Saunders" Subject: glad germination/other topics Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 18:11:41 +0200 We normally recommend 22C maximum and about 10C minimum. Regards Rachel Saunders Silverhill Seeds and Books Tel: +27 21 762 4245 Fax: +27 21 797 6609 PO Box 53108, Kenilworth, 7745 South Africa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Whitehead" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 6:43 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] glad germination/other topics > Deborah, > > I wondered if you were developing fast-germinating seeds by growing > your own seeds over several generations. However, if you are getting > your seeds from South Africa, as I am, then perhaps mine will > germinate faster if I keep them hotter than 18 C (70 F). Maybe on top > of my water heater. I'll experiment with my next sowing. > > Diane > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: > 2008/03/17 10:48 AM > > From totototo@telus.net Thu Mar 20 13:02:18 2008 Message-Id: <20080320170212.F45QGUD0RH@priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Heaving lessons for those in mild climates Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:02:54 -0700 On 18 Mar 08, at 19:46, P. C. Andrews wrote: > > > Is there something comparable in mild climates? Do mild > > climates have heaving too? > > No heaving in Zone 11, but at least heaving lays your labels gently > near their origin. Hurricanes, over-enthusiastic raking, and the > neighbor's terriers (& chickens) mean that I have resorted to burying > the labels with the bulbs and dig them up if I want to refresh my > memory (which is increasingly often). My GPS doesn't give fine enough > resolution and the grid system I set up years ago was just too much > trouble (the dogs got most of the stakes). Still looking for > ideas........... The system I've used for years (and have probably described before on this mailing list) involves using Dymo embossed stick-on labels affixed to lengths of aluminum strip. I use 12" lengths of 1/2" × 1/8" aluminum. The backing of the embossed label is peeled off and the label applied to an area previously coated with contact cement. Advantages: 1. Even when the label fades, the embossing remains readable. 2. Too heavy for birds, raccoons, and rodents to mess around with. 3. The contact cement means the labels *never* peel off. In the twenty or so years I've used this system, the embossed label has come loose in less than half a dozen cases. 4. The aluminum can be re-used by paring off the old label with a sharp edge and putting on a new one. 5. If you bang these into the ground so only an inch or two shows, they're immovable by any force of nature barring major erosion by flooding. Disadvantages: 1. The garden looks ugly as sin with strips of aluminum sticking up out of the beds all over the place. 2. If you use, as I do, a bolt cutter to cut the aluminum strips to length, you end up with sharp corners that can (and do) cut when you step on them with bare feet. For some time I have been contemplating removing all the garden labels. My garden is, after all, a private pleasure garden, not a botanical garden nor a plant conservation garden, and if I lose track of which bulb is where, what difference does it make to the way the garden looks? The bulbs can be their own labels, iow. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@telus.net Thu Mar 20 13:02:14 2008 Message-Id: <20080320170212.43BVQR58NL@priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Anemone blanda 'Charmer' Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:02:54 -0700 What color is Anemone blanda 'Charmer'? I have a patch of what's supposed to be this, but the variation in flower color tells me that the tubers were not all true to name. Perhaps they're all near-lookalike seedlings, or the stock became contaminated with seedlings; who knows what tricks the bulb trade was up to when I bought them? A few feet from this patch, a single clump turned up this year with flowers of an unusual color, best described as "fluorescent pink". Really: like a flamingo plugged into a neon sign! The flowers seem to be rather small for a cultivar of Anemone blanda, but the color is a real stunner. I have no idea if this is a chance seedling or simply a tuber from the main clump that was displaced during garden maintenance. Unfortunately, Google is hopeless. All the entries it kicks up on the first page are braindead nursery squibs with lots of irrelevant information and not very much that's on point. Does this little anemone sound like 'Charmer' to anyone familiar with the real thing, or is it "something else?" And if it's not 'Charmer', tell us what that famous cultivar looks like. PS: I have authentic Anemone blanda 'Radar' in my garden. It's bigger than this little interloper, and the color is deeper, though it makes much the same kind of spot of brilliant color. I don't know if my little interloper has a white center to the flowers, or not. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@telus.net Thu Mar 20 13:02:13 2008 Message-Id: <20080320170211.28ESSH3EWK@priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Aff - able? Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:02:54 -0700 On 18 Mar 08, at 20:23, Jim McKenney wrote: > I object to the use of this term affinis in the way being discussed > because it is illogical: it does not deliver what it promises. It > purports to state the very things which are in fact unknown: > relationship and identity. > > The word akin expresses natural relationship, not mere similarity. > What sense does it make to use the word akin before such natural > relationship is established? > > This distinction between natural relationship and mere similarity is > the salient difference between modern taxonomy and taxonomy as > practiced up until the beginning of the twentieth century. But Linnaeus was still cooking with gas when he pinpointed floral anatomy as the key to understanding relationships. If you look up from your computer and take a good gander out the window at the taxonomic landscape, you will see that most genera established using floral anatomy are still held to be valid. Yes, there are problematic areas, the South American tangle of Ipheions, Nothoscordums, Beauverdias, and who knows what else being the one that comes to mind, but Mother Nature does have a fondness for playing jokes on scientists, so what else can we expect? The place where DNA and other microscopic evidence is proving valuable is sorting out higher taxons, families in particular. We all know (or should) that there's a tangle involving peonies, podophyllums, jeffersonias, and such, and hopefully DNA is helping figure it out. But the generic boundaries remain largely untouched. Thus, using aff, meaning roughly "looks a lot like", doesn't just mean that there's some kind of vague overall similarity, but that on close inspection, the critical features of floral anatomy (and other relevant details) are closely similar to previously named species. I wrote earlier, and then again just above "looks a lot like" but to be precise the phrase should include "with reference to anatomical details indicative of taxonomic relationships." That's a little vague, but of course the details used in one class of plants may be different from those in another class. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Mar 20 14:17:09 2008 Message-Id: <51BEBB67-24BE-41A6-B095-91D56235F977@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Albuca superfast germinators Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:16:46 -0700 I've just checked with the source of my Albuca aurea and A. shawii seeds. She manages a club seed exchange and was giving away the two year old seeds. This could mean that the seeds were three years old, depending upon which hemisphere they grew in. I also had three Alliums from the same exchange germinate in three days. (caeruleum, splendens and tuvinicum). I am greatly cheered by seeds that are so eager to grow. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From miller7398@comcast.net Thu Mar 20 15:44:54 2008 Message-Id: <005f01c88ac2$d72b3240$3f39734c@tapa965> From: "Joyce Miller" Subject: Trimming Roots of Potted bulbs Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:44:40 -0700 Hi Kenneth and all, My experiences are only anecdotal, but my findings are that trimmed roots are for the convenience of the bulb vendors in packing. If a bulb has live roots all year, I would not trim them when transplanting. A couple of years ago an experienced bulb grower and hybridist sent me some pollen from a couple of Hippeastrum species. I used the pollen on some recently purchased bulbs from a good name plant vendor. The bulbs were trimmed as is the custom. After pollination, the ovary swelled as expected but blasted before final ripening. I wrote to my friend. He wrote back that he found fresh bulbs with trimmed roots often blasted if pollination is done the first year. In addition, I often find newly bulbs do not flower the following season but this may be due to my lapse in care. Old wives tales abound. In California and even here in Oregon, it is a common practice to prune major limbs to stumps. Actually, this practice is common with a number of trees. The result produces countless sprouts the following spring. I find the practice apalling and believe it distorts the natural beauty of the tree. I think new home owners see a neighbor trimming his tree back harshly and think this is the way things should be done. When I see this I sort of laugh to myself. Years ago this extreme pruning was done in France to produce kindling for wood burning stoves. Best wishes, Joyce Miller, Gresham, Oregon USA USDA 7-8. From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Mar 20 16:44:43 2008 Message-Id: <000601c88acb$744544f0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Aff - able? Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:46:19 -0400 Jane's question about the use of cf. intrigues me. Out of curiosity, I Googled some abbreviation sites and was very surprised to discover that many (I think one site returned 65) meanings were cited for cf. used as an abbreviation or as an acronym. Most were very context specific and would be meaningless to most of us and useless in general writing. We don't know which word Jane's advisor was abbreviating. Jane gave the infinitive which is a standard way to cite Latin verbs (because the infinitive indicates the conjugation). But of course there are dozens of forms associated with that infinitive. Any one of them might have been the basis of the abbreviation. It seems to me that the only way to determine its intended meaning is to ask that person. Nevertheless, standard usage in other areas might provide some hints. All of my adult life I've used cf. in an imperative sense. Two Latin words which survive in common usage, vide and fide, are imperatives. Doggies use the present indicative first person singular form, Fido, but they mispronounce it to sound like fy-dough. Another thing to be aware of is the tradition of using the third person to express actions which in everyday speech might be expressed in the first person. For instance, old musical instruments sometimes bear a notation such as “JACOBUS ME FECIT MDCCCXXIII" rather than simply 'I made this...". And if an author wishes to indicate some action on his own part, it will often be expressed in Latin in the third person rather than in the modern norm, the first person. Another locution which I find useful is incertae sedis (literally: of uncertain position). Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where the first flower of Ornithogalum reverchonii is open. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Mar 20 17:05:32 2008 Message-Id: <000701c88ace$6a035b00$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Trimming Roots of Potted bulbs Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 17:07:31 -0400 Bulbs vary, but I would think that it would be a disaster to trim the roots of those bulbs which form non-branching or even slightly branching roots. Yikes! Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jshields@indy.net Fri Mar 21 08:21:38 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080321071306.027bfaa0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Trimming Roots of Potted bulbs Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 07:21:30 -0500 Ken asks a very good question. I habitually work very hard to spare the roots of clivias when repotting or washing for shipment -- but I saw workers repotting clivia plants at a California commercial nursery, and they were chopping off half the root lengths, then repotting in the same pot with fresh potting mix. What are we seeing here? Some plants in the amaryllis family seem to have to struggle to grow new roots when the old ones are damaged or removed. Haemanthus, Crinum, and Clivia are a few examples that come to mind. The thought occurs to me that cutting off part of the roots may stimulate the growth of fresh roots, but I don't know if this is actually what happens. For sure, the gardening literature is full of "old wives' tales" that are not true, or are at best half-truths based on poor understanding of plant biology. Jim Shields in chilly central Indiana (USA) At 09:09 AM 3/20/2008 -0700, you wrote: >Dear Members: > In a current article on Pot Culture of Lilies, >one of the comments made is that the roots are trimmed >to 2 1/2 to 3 inches. For years, the claim was made >that imported lily bulbs didn't grow well because the >roots were usually trimmed. Well, is the claim faulty, >or is trimming the roots a bad suggestion? > > Then, I was taught that roots were only able >to absorb nutrients for-at most-an inch back of the >growing tip of the root. Trimming roots back would >remove the part that is able to absorb nutrients. >Yes, the roots are possibly old, but any possible >new growth is being sacrificed. Yes, lilies do make >new roots, but why not either remove the roots >completely, or not trim them at all? > > Admittedly, roots also serve to anchor the >plant, and a couple inches would be better than none, >but why injure the roots instead of potting up the >whole root system? > > There are a lot of "old wives tales" in >gardening, things that are done because that's how >it's always been done. Is this an example? > >Ken ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Fri Mar 21 15:13:53 2008 Message-Id: <47E408F2.6050607@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Gladiolus cultivation Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:13:54 -0700 I just took these seeds out to plant, and noticed that they are all recommended for Aug or Sep sowing. How hard and fast are these recommendations? Those are my very hot months, and I rarely start seeds until later in fall. Thanks for your suggestions, Marguerite Dell Sherk wrote: > > A number of gladiolus species were offered on the PBS 2008 Clearance > Sale and on BX 166. From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Fri Mar 21 16:22:54 2008 Message-Id: <47E41918.4060801@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Gladiolus cultivation Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:22:48 -0700 OOps. Del tells me that Sp stands for spring, not september. Duh! Sorry to bother. Marguerite English wrote: > I just took these seeds out to plant, and noticed that they are all > recommended for Aug or Sep sowing. From johannes-ulrich-urban@t-online.de Fri Mar 21 18:12:08 2008 Message-Id: <1JcpLD-2Fedzk0@fwd27.aul.t-online.de> From: johannes-ulrich-urban@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: Albuca Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 23:03:59 +0100 Dear All, Having followed the discussion about Albuca I am most amazed that a plant like Albuca shawii is considered hardy. I have grown it for some years and like it very much, especially the fragrant foliage. So I will try some bulbs in the open garden and raise more from some seed that I saved from my own plants. So far it has been pot grown and kept in its dry compost in the pot in my cellar during winter. What I am interested in are Albucas that can be planted in the open garden as summer bulbs like let's say ordinary hybrid Gladiolus. I would not mind digging them up and taking them indoors for winter if they are not hardy enough. So far all Albucas I know except A. shawii are more or less evergreen so they dislike being dug up every year and cannot be kept as dry bulbs over winter. I grew something from seed that was meant to be Albuca angolensis but when the first flowers appeared it did not match the Silverhill description. They were greenish yellow not golden yellow and not fragrant as stated in the catalogue. (In gerneral I am very satisfied with Silverhill's quality, my shawiis are from them, too) And although being winter dormant this Albuca starts growth so early (right now), even dry bulbs produce a scape of buds in the cellar like a pale Asparagus so that again makes them difficult to handle. Does somebody in the forum have a suggestion which Albuca would match my requirements? There is also a potful of A. clamwilliamigloria, I hope at least..... It seems to have an awkward growth pattern, sometimes visible but most of the time dormant, I never really know when to water and when not to, any suggestions for this one? I looked it up in the books and found that it is basically from a winter rain area but flowers without leaves..... At the moment there is not much foliage visible, strange for a winter grower..... What kind of plant is Albuca maxima? Winter dormant? With greetings from really cold spring weather with litterally snow-drop Nacissus in the garden...... Uli From johannes-ulrich-urban@t-online.de Fri Mar 21 18:10:45 2008 Message-Id: <1JcpLE-2Fedzm0@fwd27.aul.t-online.de> From: johannes-ulrich-urban@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: off topic: hardy Mesembryanthemum Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 23:04:00 +0100 Dear All, I remember having read some interesting remarks about hardy Mesembryanthemum from one of you during these last days. I cannot find the message again..... Would you mind contacting me privately? Thank you very much! Uli From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Sat Mar 22 15:05:55 2008 Message-Id: <47E5588E.5020304@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: old seeds Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 12:05:50 -0700 I found a package of seeds, including some old BX seeds, while cleaning this winter, and decided to try some of them before I threw them out. Good thing! I planted 5 pkts of Romulea species and 2 of Lachenalia from BX 5, sent in August, 2002. They all germinated and I have full pots of small seedlings growing strongly. I was amazed at the excellent germination rate from seeds so old. What a miracle geophyte seeds are! Now to try the remainder. I have also been planting some 2-3 year old seeds for herbaceous plant for my garden club plant sale. Only about half of those germinated. (Don't ask; I'm too lazy to do germination tests with paper towels and so on!) From miller7398@comcast.net Sat Mar 22 17:29:15 2008 Message-Id: <004301c88c63$bdeebd90$3f39734c@tapa965> From: "Joyce Miller" Subject: old seeds Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 14:28:58 -0700 Yes, Marguerite, some genera have amazing keeping powers. In Fall 2006 I planted probably 12 pots of Lilium gotten from a left over seed exchange. The oldest had been wild collected in 1981. I kept no records of number of seeds, location etc. but I was satisfied the germination far exceeded my hope. Joyce Miller, Gresham, Oregon, USA USDA 8 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marguerite English" To: Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 12:05 PM Subject: [pbs] old seeds > I found a package of seeds, including some old BX seeds, while > cleaning this winter, and decided to try some of them before I threw > them out. Good thing! I planted 5 pkts of Romulea species and 2 of > Lachenalia from BX 5, sent in August, 2002. They all germinated and I > have full pots of small seedlings growing strongly. I was amazed at > the excellent germination rate from seeds so old. What a miracle > geophyte seeds are! Now to try the remainder. > > I have also been planting some 2-3 year old seeds for herbaceous > plant for my garden club plant sale. Only about half of those > germinated. (Don't ask; I'm too lazy to do germination tests with > paper towels and so on!) > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > __________ NOD32 2967 (20080321) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > From antennaria@charter.net Sat Mar 22 18:22:22 2008 Message-Id: <20080322182221.STDS1.181653.root@fepweb04> From: Mark McDonough Subject: a few early crocus Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 15:22:21 -0700 While it still looks like winter where I live (about 20 miles NW of Roy Herald, in Massachusetts just below the New Hampshire border), on the warm south side of the house, enough snow has receded to allow a few early crocus to open their flowers in the bright sunlight today. For the last couple weeks, Crocus vitellinus threatened to bloom, but it's been too frigid outside, with too many little snowfalls (I'm north of the rain/snow transition line... rains in Boston area, always snows where I am). This is reliably the very first Cocus to bloom, opening it's small but vivid golden yellow flowers with the Galanthus. Here are three views of this species. Note the 6-8" crust of snow in the background. Also note the fresh shiny leaves on Sternbergia lutea, coming through this hard winter unscathed. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Crocus_vitellinus_w_snow_2008a.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Crocus_vitellinus_w_Sternbergia_2008a.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Crocus_vitellinus_w_Sternbergia_2008b.jpg Also in bud for about a week, but finally able to open up today, is Crocus biflorus isauricus. Evidently it is a highly variable species, but always lovely. Mine came a number years ago from Jane McGary, and it's a real good doer here. I particularly like the strong purple veining on the back of the tepals. Here are a few views: http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Crocus_biflorus_isauricus_2008a.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Crocus_biflorus_isauricus_2008b.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Crocus_biflorus_isauricus_2008c.jpg Crocus gargaricus just barely opened a couple of buds today, more buds coming. I think they look hilarious how the hot orange buds just pop out of the soil like tiny orange grapes. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Crocus_gargaricus_buds_2008a.jpg I have a "tree ring" under a Hibiscus syriacus cultivar underplanted with numerous Crocus chrysanthis cultivars such as 'Blue Pearl', 'Advance', 'Prins Claus', and others. They produce masses of seed, so I've gotten into the habit of dabbing pollen from various sorts, then later in summer scratching in all the seed right back into the pine bark mulch the bed is covered with, and they germinate like weeds. The following are two similar views of an interesting brownish hybrid seedling. By the way, the black stuff on the ground is not toxic waste, just the blackened remains of numerous Hibiscus syriacus flowers. http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Crocus_chrys_brownish_seedling_2008a.jpg http://www.plantbuzz.com/buzz/Crocus_chrys_brownish_seedling_2008b.jpg Many more crocus budding up or starting to jump out of the ground as the snow recedes. Mark McDonough antennaria@charter.net Pepperell, Massachusetts, USA USDA Zone 5 From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Sat Mar 22 19:08:03 2008 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: Albuca maxima Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 17:07:50 -0700 Hello Uli, According to Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs, A. maxima flowers August to November. Plants 40 - 150 cm high, flowers nodding, white with green keels. Grows rocky sandstone or granitic soils, Namaqualand to Riversdale. Mine has yet to bloom, going on second year from seed. The bulbs are quite vigorous and almost the size of a golf ball now. Linda Okotoks, AB Canada From msittner@mcn.org Sat Mar 22 23:28:03 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080322200701.03524c10@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Albucas and other South African Hyacinthaceae Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 20:27:43 -0700 I haven't found the winter rainfall Albuca species to do very well for me in my Northern California garden. I have a couple in pots and they often don't break dormancy. Some I put in the ground I never saw again. I'm assuming they might want more summer heat but I'm not sure. Ornithogalums are hit and miss too that way and Daubenya. I'm happy that I can grow Massonia, Lachenalia, and Polyxena. Luckily I have a large enough collection of bulbs now that I no longer grieve the losses and just concentrated on the successes although I will admit to having tried some of the really pretty Ornithogalums and Daubenyas more than once. I have a couple of species of the latter that do come up, but so far haven't bloomed or grown very fast. There is only so much room in the greenhouse to put all the South African and South American species that wish for warmer summer temperatures. As Linda wrote Albuca canadensis, syn. Albuca maxima, is definitely a winter rainfall species. Not too long ago I added some habitat pictures to the wiki of it. It really makes a statement in the wild. Also the name has been changed. I checked with John Manning on this and he confirmed this to be true in spite of it being named maxima in some books he had written rather recently. It is now considered Albuca canadensis which used to be the name for a yellow flowered species and which is a strange name for a South African species. I rather suspect this is going to be a change that is resisted as it is well known as Albuca maxima. I'd think if Linda is growing it in a container it might need a very large one eventually. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Albuca#canadensis Mary Sue From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Mar 23 19:18:28 2008 Message-Id: <47E6F340.9040700@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Crocus kosaninii Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:18:08 -0500 A Crocus from Southern Serbia. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Crocus/Crocus_kosaninii_73.AT.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Crocus/Crocus_kosaninii_75.AT.JPG Arnold New Jersey From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Mar 23 19:29:14 2008 Message-Id: <47E6F5C5.2010201@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Clivia 'Vico Yellow' Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:28:53 -0500 A tissue culture distribution eight years ago. First time flowering. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Clivia/Clivia_Vico_Yellow_93.AT.JPG Arnold New Jersey From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Mar 23 21:32:53 2008 Message-Id: <47E712C6.4050609@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: try again Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:32:38 -0500 Sorry for the bad link. This should do it. Arnold New Jersey http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Clivia/Clivia_Vico_Yellow_93.AT.JPG From msittner@mcn.org Mon Mar 24 10:47:20 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080324073929.030921c8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions-- Narcissus, Arum, Zantedeschia Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 07:40:00 -0700 Hi, Jay Yourch has been very busy adding more Narcissus pictures to the wiki. His garden this time of year has to be truly amazing. He could probably charge admission. Updated pictures of 'Ambergate' and 'Sentinel', addition of 'Audubon' and 'Pink Charm' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionTwo Add 'Bravoure' and 'Pistachio' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionOne Add 'Double Smiles' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionFour#Smiles Add 'Ice Wings' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionFive#Ice Add 'Jack Snipe' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionSix#Jack add group shot of 'Sweetness' and new cultivar 'Pueblo' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionSeven Add 'Apricot Lace' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionEleven#Apricot He also added a picture of Arum creticum which was one of someone's favorite yellow flowers, but we didn't ever have a picture of it. It is really pretty. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Arum I've added some pictures to the Zantedeschia wiki page. The first were habitat pictures of Z. aethiopica which we saw a lot in South Africa and which also has naturalized in Northern California. One was blooming away in an area that had burned earlier. There is also a picture of an amazing cultivar we saw at Rod and Rachel's property at Brackenfell that they call 'Rod's Red' with red coloring on the back of the flower. I don't know if they tissue culture it. I added some pictures from Cameron McMaster of Z. albomaculata and some pictures of Z. 'Blaze' my friend Jana shared with me last summer. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Zantedeschia Mary Sue From dejager@bulbargence.com Mon Mar 24 13:37:21 2008 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Clivia 'Vico Yellow' Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:36:59 +0100 Dear Arnold, Well done! I have not seen flower yet, But then I am not a specialist on this matter. I wonder how anybody else got on with these plants. Greetings -- Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence South of France (zone 9 (olive trees) emailto: dejager@bulbargence.com Site www.bulbargence.com Le 24/03/08 1:28, « Arnold Trachtenberg » a écrit : > A tissue culture distribution eight years ago. First time flowering. From msittner@mcn.org Mon Mar 24 17:03:33 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080324130938.034a0ac8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Clivia 'Vico Yellow' Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:20:59 -0700 Dear Arnold and Lauw, Mine hasn't bloomed yet either although two yellow ones I grew from two seeds started a couple of months prior to this distribution starting blooming in 2004 and have been blooming every year since (and are in bud at the moment). I understand there was a high attrition rate from that distribution and that those of us who kept ours alive did a lot better than others. It really made me wonder whether tissue culture was the way of the future or if the ones we got were just not in very good shape at the time we got them. I remember there was a recommendation that I put mine on a hotpad in the hope that that bottom heat would assist in root development. The ones I grew from seed were free since it was pre BX days and a member who had seed offered seed to people who wanted them. The Vico Yellow distribution was much more costly, but since I had met Sir Peter Smithers, I wanted one of the plants named after where he lived and his work. I'd be curious if others have tissue culture plants that grew much more rapidly like they are supposed to. Mary Sue From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Mon Mar 24 17:13:50 2008 Message-Id: <47E81987.8040808@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Clivia 'Vico Yellow' Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:13:43 -0700 Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > I'd be > curious if others have tissue culture plants that grew much more rapidly > like they are supposed to. > > Mary Sue > I have one of the tissue culture Vico Yellows, and it grew much more slowly, but finally bloomed last year. (It appears to not be sending up a bloom scape this year.) Now the plant looks just like any other Clivia I have of a similar size. The flowers were nice, but as Mary Sue experienced, I have other yellow flowered Clivia that I grew from seeds planted more recently, that have already flowered, and they have equally nice yellow flowers, some with Vico Yellow in their ancestry. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Mon Mar 24 17:43:16 2008 Message-Id: <005701c88df8$0de44a50$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Clivia 'Vico Yellow' Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:43:08 -0000 The plant I got of 'Vico Yellow' was also very slow to develop, although seemingly healthy and happy when received. It finally flowered last year, but it is by no means an exceptional yellow Clivia, far surpassed in my opinion by many seed-raised strains. Dear old Sir Peter's enthusiastic promotion of it raised false hopes, I think. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 > From jshields@indy.net Mon Mar 24 17:44:31 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080324163137.036f3248@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Clivia 'Vico Yellow' Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:44:28 -0500 Hi all, I received five of the little plantlets with their roots in clear medium from Steve Vinisky in 1998. In September 1999, all 5 were still alive and healthy. The first plant bloomed in April 2002. I don't know how long it took to get the t.c. explants to the size plantlets that I received; if I had to guess, I'd hazard about 3 years. I currently have only one survivor, and the losses were due to heavy summer rains for several years in a row, before I had an all-weather greenhouse. This caused various rots and fungal infections of the mature plants. Leaving valuable Clivia plants outdoors in the weather in summer is apparently not a good idea in this part of the country. I had similar misfortunes with other clivia plants over those same summers, so it's not something specific to 'Vico Yellow'. It was the miserable weather here. I have one scape on the surviving plant of 'Vico Yellow' (t.c.) at the moment. I intend to pollinate those blooms shortly. I have a few seedlings from those early Vico blooms, but none are anywhere near blooming size yet. My t.c. plantlets grew to bloom size within 4 years of my receiving them, but they got a LOT of T.L.C. The seedlings from the Vico plants have been rather slower growing; but they don't get much, if any, T.L.C.! Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) At 02:13 PM 3/24/2008 -0700, you wrote: >Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > > I'd be > > curious if others have tissue culture plants that grew much more rapidly > > like they are supposed to. > > > > Mary Sue > > ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Mar 24 21:05:02 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080324190739.017076b8@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Narcissus 'Piccolo' Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:09:28 -0700 A friend told me the other night that he had lost his cherished plant of Narcissus 'Piccolo' to bulb fly and didn't know if he would be able to replace it, so I told him I'd ask on this forum. Does anyone grow it? He would be able to trade something very fine for it, as he and his wife are brilliant professional gardeners who have a very large range of rare plants. Jane McGary From arnold@nj.rr.com Mon Mar 24 21:27:13 2008 Message-Id: <47E862E1.7040104@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Clivia 'Vico Yellow' Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:26:41 -0500 Mary Sue: I did give mine bottom heat for a couple of growing seasons. I attributed the slow growth to my inexperience with Clivias. I kept them under HID lights for a number of years until they bulked up. I have two plants and a friend has one he has on the floor of a sun room that flowered last year. He knows nothing of Clivias let alone a C. 'Vico Yellow'. You can imagine how I felt when he emailed an image of his plant flowering and mine had not! Arnold From LucGBulot@aol.com Tue Mar 25 08:09:00 2008 Message-Id: <8CA5C881E9CCFA9-107C-3C97@FRR5-L18.sis.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Test - and cultivation tips Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:08:50 -0400 Dear all, I am sending this message again since it seems that it did not get through... I received this morning several new bulbs. Among them two species are completely knew to me and I would appreciate advice on the cultivation of those plants. One is Lilium wallichianum and the other Haemanthus pauculifolius. I am thinking of outdoor cultivation (Zone 8b). I have many open possibilities in terms of protection, shade, sun, drainage, etc... Waiting for your advice... thanks in advance. Luc From carlobal@netzero.com Tue Mar 25 08:28:11 2008 Message-Id: <20080325.081741.28163.1@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.com" Subject: Clivia 'Vico Yellow' Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:17:41 GMT John, It might be a good idea to hold your opinion of 'Vico Yellow' until you seen more than a first bloom. I don't grow it amongst my other clivia, but I'm sure you know that first blooms can be a bit underwhelming. Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com _____________________________________________________________ Click for special offer on replacement windows - energy efficient. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4uDmRMpmWFW2zKanjqTbKqMlSADcOoTQJbq56qa5rUHimt9L/ From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Mar 25 08:36:29 2008 Message-Id: <47E8FFC8.2050201@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Test - and cultivation tips Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:36:08 -0500 Luc; On the Lilium, there is a Lily Yahoo Group that may be able to help you. McRae says" This splendid lily is not winter hardy in colder regions but can be grown in a cool greenhouse, increased by seeds or bulbils" Arnold From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Mar 25 08:39:03 2008 Message-Id: <47E90067.90605@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Clivia 'Vico Yellow' Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:38:47 -0500 Carlo: As with many flowers the color changes as the flower matures. I'll post a later image on the Wiki Wiki. There are eight blooms on the scape. Looks to me like the yellow throat is deepening. Arnold From msittner@mcn.org Tue Mar 25 10:57:46 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080325074006.0343a5d0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Haemanthus pauculifolius Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:56:28 -0700 Hi Luc, Several years ago I organized a topic of the week for more than two years where we had a subject we discussed over a couple week period. Often there was a wonderful introduction to start us off provided by a knowledgeable member of our group. Cameron McMaster provided such an introduction on Haemanthus. http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Haemanthus/HaemanthusTOW.htm And here were some of the posts from that week (under Haemanthus): http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2004-December/subject.html Haemanthus pauculifolius is an evergreen species. I leave H. albiflos out year round although I shelter it a bit from the rain when we have a lot of it in winter, but I've found some of my other summer rainfall Haemanthus seem a lot happier staying in my greenhouse where it is warmer in summer. Your climate may be suitable to leaving it outside. After experimenting with a number of them in my covered structure outside in summer I moved them back to the greenhouse. Although this species was slow for me (purchased from Telos), it now seems to be growing quite happily in a pot and it's bloomed the last two years in the fall and I think it is most attractive. I keep the soil moist. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HaemanthusSpeciesThree#pauculifolius Mary Sue From hoe@sify.com Tue Mar 25 11:18:55 2008 Message-Id: <006201c88e8a$24f73170$0132a8c0@yourd36eabcf87> From: "Himalayan Orchid Exports (U.C.Pradhan)" Subject: Test - and cultivation tips Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:38:26 +0530 Dear Luc, Lilium wallichianum hails from the Sikkim Himalayas and is admired for it fragrance. It grows on open grasssy slopes in the subtropical zone and has to be cultivated in well drained medium with pea shingles, some sand and garden soil. We grow them in the open here at elevation of 500-800m. Summer temperatures could go upto 32 C with plenty of rain from end June-early September. Hope this information written hurriedly helps. Regards. Udai Udai C. Pradhan ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 5:38 PM Subject: [pbs] Test - and cultivation tips > > Dear all, > > I am sending this message again since it seems that it did not get > through... > > I received this morning several new bulbs. Among them two species are > completely knew to me and I would appreciate advice on the cultivation of > those plants. > > One is Lilium wallichianum and the other Haemanthus pauculifolius. > > I am thinking of outdoor cultivation (Zone 8b). I have many open > possibilities in terms of protection, shade, sun, drainage, etc... > > Waiting for your advice... thanks in advance. > > Luc > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 > 8:10 PM > > From LucGBulot@aol.com Tue Mar 25 11:58:14 2008 Message-Id: <8CA5CA82076AE31-13E0-CBD@WEBMAIL-MB14.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: : Haemanthus pauculifolius Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:57:58 -0400 Hi Mary, Many thanks for the input and links to former posts on Haemanthus. I also sent an e-mail to Dee Snijman to ask for a reprint copy of the original paper in which H. pauculifolius was described : Snijman, D. A. & van Wyk, A. E. (1993). A new species of Haemanthus (Amaryllidaceae) from the eastern Transvaal Escarpment, South Africa. South African Journal of Botany 59(2): 247–250. Looking through the web for more infos I also found an interesting PDF on Haemanthus cultivation edited by the RHS at the following url: http://www.rhs.org.uk/publications/plantsman/1205/Haemanthus.pdf Take care, Luc (1993). A new species of Haemanthus (Amaryllidaceae) from the eastern Transvaal Escarpment, South Africa. South African Journal of Botany 59(2): 247–250. Looking through the web for more infos I also found an interesting PDF on Haemanthus cultivation edited by the RHS at the following url: http://www.rhs.org.uk/publications/plantsman/1205/Haemanthus.pdf Take care, Luc South African Journal of Botany 59(2): 247–250. Looking through the web for more infos I also found an interesting PDF on Haemanthus cultivation edited by the RHS at the following url: http://www.rhs.org.uk/publications/plantsman/1205/Haemanthus.pdf Take care, Luc From LucGBulot@aol.com Tue Mar 25 12:07:04 2008 Message-Id: <8CA5CA95CB6FED8-13E0-D5E@WEBMAIL-MB14.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: more Lilium Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:06:47 -0400 Dear Arnold and Udai, Many thanks for your first input on this species... As Arnold suggested I have joined the Lilium Yahoo group and searching the archives... Will try to make a summary of what I found. Just wondering if summer is not too dry here for Lilium wallichianum and if the species will not need some extra watering. To give an idea the three species that are doing very well here are L. henryi, L. regale and L. lancifolium (aside the european species). I will give it a try anyway... Luc From djordan68@comcast.net Tue Mar 25 12:25:40 2008 Message-Id: <11A309624F644F4BB87D5A5EBC6BE818@debbiePC> From: "Deborah Jordan" Subject: Narcissus 'Piccolo' Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:22:14 -0500 Jane-- Have your friends join 'daffnet'; it's free, and if anyone has any, those folks do--it's world-wide: http://daffodilusa.org/services/serv.html Very nice people too, I might add--very friendly and helpful for sources. Debbie Houston, Texas USA From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Tue Mar 25 12:02:06 2008 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: Albucas and other South African Hyacinthaceae Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:02:01 -0700 I don't understand how Albuca canadensis, syn. Albuca maxima should be named canadensis? Did a Canadian discover it? Does anyone know the history of this particular albuca? I purchased this seed from Silverhill in 2006, it was labeled a. maxima. In my opinion if one is to pot grow this, start in a large pot to begin with. Preferably a heavy pot, with half a dozen bulbs growing in a 6" square pot, it is easily tipped. Linda Foulis Okotoks, AB Canada From maxwithers@gmail.com Tue Mar 25 14:04:22 2008 Message-Id: <47E93EA1.1040802@gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: Albucas and other South African Hyacinthaceae Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:04:17 -0700 Linda, canada (with a tilde on the "n") is "glen" in Spanish (from the Lat. for "reed"), and one might surmise that this meaning entered Spanish from late- or neolatin, and that this Albuca (or whatever plant was given this name) grows in hollows of some kind; or, potentially, among reeds? Any neolatin experts out there? Linneaus also named plants canadensis because they were from Canada, so he was either inconsistent or confused. ... > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:02:01 -0700 > From: "Linda Foulis" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Albucas and other South African Hyacinthaceae > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I don't understand how Albuca canadensis, syn. Albuca maxima should be named > canadensis? Did a Canadian discover it? Does anyone know the history of > this particular albuca? I purchased this seed from Silverhill in 2006, it > was labeled a. maxima. > ... From LucGBulot@aol.com Tue Mar 25 15:22:52 2008 Message-Id: <8CA5CC4BDCC22FB-9A8-A21@WEBMAIL-MB14.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: canadensis Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:22:46 -0400 Hi Linda and Max, I agree with Max that Cañada is a spanish word that describes small valleys in the South of Spain. Nevertheless I have had a look at my french-latin botanical dictionnary and I could not find any other meaning than "from Canada" when it comes to canadensis... among a long list of examples I can think of: Branta canadensis, Canada Goose Castor canadensis, American Beaver Cervus canadensis, Elk or Wapiti Lynx canadensis, Canadian Lynx   and when it comes to plants - Allium canadense, Amelanchier canadensis, Anemone canadensis, Aquelegia canadensis, Cornus canadensis, Dicentra canadensis, Linaria canadensis, Sambucus canadensis, Sanguinaria canadensis, Stipa canadensis, Taxus canadensis, Viola canadensis, etc. It would be useful to go back to the original description by Linnaeus to know what is the derivatio nominis of the name. Keep in mind that many plants have been first described with inacurate names (in terms of geography) such as Scilla peruana (a mediterranean species) or Cereus peruvianus (that grows in Brazil). Will look more and try to finf the original description... Best regards, Luc From crinum@libero.it Tue Mar 25 15:41:57 2008 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Grossi" Subject: canadensis Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:36:10 +0100 According to Stearn's Dictionary of Plant Names, canadensis is, beside from Canada, a word us by earl writers also to cover the north-eastern US. Alberto ---------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:22:46 -0400 Subject : [pbs] canadensis > Hi Linda and Max, > > I agree with Max that Cañada is a spanish word that describes small valleys in the South of Spain. Nevertheless I have had a look at my french-latin botanical dictionnary and I could not find any other meaning than "from Canada" when it comes to canadensis... among a long list of examples I can think of: > > > Branta canadensis, Canada Goose > > Castor canadensis, American Beaver > > Cervus canadensis, Elk or Wapiti > > Lynx canadensis, Canadian Lynx > >   > > and when it comes to plants - Allium canadense, Amelanchier canadensis, Anemone canadensis, Aquelegia canadensis, Cornus canadensis, Dicentra canadensis, Linaria canadensis, Sambucus canadensis, Sanguinaria canadensis, Stipa canadensis, Taxus canadensis, Viola canadensis, etc. > > It would be useful to go back to the original description by Linnaeus to know what is the derivatio nominis of the name. > > Keep in mind that many plants have been first described with inacurate names (in terms of geography) such as Scilla peruana (a mediterranean species) or Cereus peruvianus (that grows in Brazil). > > Will look more and try to finf the original description... > > Best regards, > > Luc > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki Alberto Grossi Italy From xerantheum@gmail.com Tue Mar 25 16:36:04 2008 Message-Id: From: "Nhu H. Nguyen" Subject: Albucas and other South African Hyacinthaceae Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:29:00 -0700 This has been an interesting thread. I find myself very often trying to decipher the roots of Latin names. Knowing the meaning makes it much easier to memorize the names. While we can't be absolutely sure of the author's meaning of a specific epithet without looking into the original literature (even then it may still be unclear), we can make a few guesses. I would have to agree with the guesses so far that 1) canadensis is a misnomer where Linnaeus thought it came from Canada, and 2) it probably refers to a hallow where the plant was first collected -- suffixes which ends in "ensis" refers to locality of a specimen. Here are a few useful suffixes which we often encounter in Latin nomenclature: locality: -ensis (canadensis) = refers to the locality of the specimen or the range of the species -cola (volcanicola) = living on or the vicinity of possessive: -ii (shawii) = literally means "of Shaw" or "belonging to Shaw", masculine form which means that Shaw must be a man. -ae (barbarae) = "of Barbara", feminine form -iana or -ana (namaquana) = can also be used to indicate belonging to a person or a place -orum (vocanorum) = also belonging to, but plural and often used for objects, masculine form -arum = same as orum, but feminine Nhu Berkeley, CA -- few things are blooming but flowering buds abound! From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Tue Mar 25 15:32:27 2008 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: Albucas and other South African Hyacinthaceae Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:32:25 -0700 Thank you Max and Luc, When I googled canadensis it came back with - canadensis is a New Latin term meaning of Canada which is used in taxonomy to denote species which are indigenous to, or are strongly associated with Canada. j Parts of what is now Canada were being referred to as Canada as early as 1545, which surprised me, I had thought that Linnaeus possibly predated the name Canada. Obviously never thought to search beyond that and to find another meaning for canada. Your explanation makes sense though as albuca canadensis (maxima) is quite reed like in its growth. I'm not sure if I'll be able to explain this or not, the foliage when it starts to grow is tubular and hollow. Each new leaf that grows comes out on the outside of this first tube encircling it. It grows up about a foot and then unfurls to flat and grass like. I've yet to see bloom but I can imagine that it would come from the centre of this tube. Very curious and interesting. Linda From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Mar 25 15:52:16 2008 Message-Id: <47E96479.1040306@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: [Fwd: Re: Test - and cultivation tips] Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:45:45 -0500 Okay, Udai I'll bite what is "pea shingles" Thanks, Arnold From dells@voicenet.com Tue Mar 25 17:20:44 2008 Message-Id: <20080325212037.669144C00F@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 167 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:19:45 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 167" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Lynn Makela: 1. Bulblets of Hippeastrum petiolatum (syn. H. flammigerum?) 2. Bulblets of Habranthus robustus var. biflora, "These bulblets are from a pot of plants with a high percentage of 2 flowers to a stalk. " 3. Scaly rhizomes of Achimenes 'Purple King' 4. Tubers of Sinningia tubiflora (fragrant white flowers with long corolla tube) From Mark Mazer: 5. Seed of Onixotis stricta 6. Seed of Clivia miniata var citrina, "My best yellow. The pollen came from various complicated crosses obtained from Silverhill seed, and also other citrina. The fruit capsules were vigorous, pale yellow, and harvested on March 19." From PBS: SEED: 7. Allium cernuum, bright pink 8. Allium macropetalum, pink flowered variety 9. Calochortus aureus 10. Calochortus concolor 11. Calochortus flexuosus 12. Calochortus gunnisoni, purple 13. Echeandea flavescens 14. Fritillaria atropurpurea 15. Hesperocallis undulata 16. Iris missouriensis arizonica, southern AZ variety, large colorful flowers 17. Milla biflora 18. Zephyranthes longifolia, "Copper zephyr lily," eastern form, NM on limestone Thank you, Lynn and Mark !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Tue Mar 25 17:22:39 2008 Message-Id: <318870.1796.qm@web86311.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: BRIAN WHYER Subject: [Fwd: Re: Test - and cultivation tips] Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:22:26 +0000 (GMT) Arnold You will break your teeth if you bite this. Pea shingle is waterworn, more or less round, pea sized gravel. Used here in the UK for paths and drives, and at one time road surfacing. Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8, (but an arctic Easter with snow) Arnold Trachtenberg wrote: Okay, Udai I'll bite what is "pea shingles" Thanks, Arnold _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Tue Mar 25 17:25:43 2008 Message-Id: <00d701c88ebe$c738fbb0$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Clivia 'Vico Yellow' Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:25:40 -0000 Carlo Balistrieri wrote > John, > > It might be a good idea to hold your opinion of 'Vico Yellow' until you > seen more than a first bloom. I don't grow it amongst my other clivia, but > I'm sure you know that first blooms can be a bit underwhelming. My inflorescence of 'Vico Yellow' was by no means the first I've seen - we grew it, and a very large number of other yellows at the Sahin seed company while I worked there, and although nice enough, I cannot be convinced of special qualities in 'Vico Yellow'. It is curious how these tissue-cultured plants were so slow to flower (compared with normal seedling growth), because mine was always (still is) a very healthy-looking dark green in the leaf. My 'favourite Clivia' remains my original painting by Auriol Batten of the type specimen of C. mirabilis, which hangs in my dining room. It needs no water and is perpetually in flower, giving constant pleasure. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 From jacobknecht@gmail.com Tue Mar 25 17:53:52 2008 Message-Id: <2f42069d0803251453r3de80f7dlb86da33dfdb9681@mail.gmail.com> From: "Jacob Knecht" Subject: canadensis Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:53:50 -1000 HI Linda, Max, and Alberto, On page 13 of The Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs, there is a paragraph retelling how Nerine sarniensis received it's specific epithet to commemorate Sarnia, the Latin name for the isle of Guernsey where the bulbs naturalised "after a Dutch ship returning from Japan in about 1655 with bulbs in her cargo" apparently lost some and washed ashore. It goes on to say that, "The names of several other Cape bulbs described in the 17th century make wildly inaccurate allusions to their purported places of origin, among them Albuca canadensis ( = A. flaccida), Brunsvigia orientalis, and the Malgas (Madagascar) lily, Cybistetes longifolia." From what other accounts I've read it seems that bulbs were collected at different parts of the world on a ships' single voyage and that often the collection would get jumbled up by the time it arrived back in Europe. One can only imagine the confusion with which Linnaeus and other taxonomists we beset with when naming some of the first Cape bulbs. Aloha, Jacob Knecht Honolulu, Hawai`i On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:36 AM, Alberto Grossi wrote: > According to Stearn's Dictionary of Plant Names, canadensis is, beside from Canada, a word us by earl writers also to cover the north-eastern US. > > Alberto > > > ---------- Initial Header ----------- > > >From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org > To : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Cc : > Date : Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:22:46 -0400 > Subject : [pbs] canadensis > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Linda and Max, > > > > I agree with Max that Cañada is a spanish word that describes small valleys in the South of Spain. Nevertheless I have had a look at my french-latin botanical dictionnary and I could not find any other meaning than "from Canada" when it comes to canadensis... among a long list of examples I can think of: > > > > > > Branta canadensis, Canada Goose > > > > Castor canadensis, American Beaver > > > > Cervus canadensis, Elk or Wapiti > > > > Lynx canadensis, Canadian Lynx > > > > > > > > and when it comes to plants - Allium canadense, Amelanchier canadensis, Anemone canadensis, Aquelegia canadensis, Cornus canadensis, Dicentra canadensis, Linaria canadensis, Sambucus canadensis, Sanguinaria canadensis, Stipa canadensis, Taxus canadensis, Viola canadensis, etc. > > > > It would be useful to go back to the original description by Linnaeus to know what is the derivatio nominis of the name. > > > > Keep in mind that many plants have been first described with inacurate names (in terms of geography) such as Scilla peruana (a mediterranean species) or Cereus peruvianus (that grows in Brazil). > > > > Will look more and try to finf the original description... > > > > Best regards, > > > > Luc > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > Alberto Grossi > Italy > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- see my botanical photography at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/ From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Tue Mar 25 18:01:01 2008 Message-Id: <011601c88ec3$b6149bf0$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: canadensis Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:00:58 -0000 The obverse of the coin is Impatiens capensis, from North America! (Though someone will probably say this comes from Cape Cod, or some such promontory, rather than the usual Cape of Good Hope implied by the epithet capensis). John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Mar 25 18:10:02 2008 Message-Id: <000c01c88ec5$43a0c3d0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: OT, Limonium 'Sahin's Yellow' Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:12:05 -0400 John Grimshaw mentioned his time at the Sahin seed company, and that reminded me of something a bit off topic but which he if anyone might remember. John, years ago seed lists listed something called Limonium 'Sahin’s Yellow'. I’m pretty sure it was not simply a yellow-flowered Limonium sinuatum cultivar. It’s one of those plants which intrigued me, but I never got around to growing. Can you tell me what this plant is and if it is still in the trade? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where tiny Hyacinthella atchleyi is making a big, good impression. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From maxwithers@gmail.com Tue Mar 25 19:03:06 2008 Message-Id: <47E984A5.6080501@gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: canadensis Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:03:01 -0700 Thanks to Jacob for resolving this about as far as can be done unless someone has a copy of the second ed. of Species plantarum handy. (Tropicos lists the first appearance of A. canadensis in that ed., while MOBOT has only digitized the first and third editions, which are so poorly indexed as to be nearly useless). At least Guerney is in between Capetown and Kew (or Uppsala)! I am often amazed that plant biologists don't have to take a year or two of latin, although it would often be useless for deciphering the intentions of modern (as in post-Renaissance) botanists. Best, Max > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:53:50 -1000 > From: "Jacob Knecht" > Subject: Re: [pbs] canadensis > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Message-ID: > <2f42069d0803251453r3de80f7dlb86da33dfdb9681@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > HI Linda, Max, and Alberto, > > On page 13 of The Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs, there is a > paragraph retelling how Nerine sarniensis received it's specific > epithet to commemorate Sarnia, the Latin name for the isle of Guernsey > where the bulbs naturalised "after a Dutch ship returning from Japan > in about 1655 with bulbs in her cargo" apparently lost some and washed > ashore. It goes on to say that, "The names of several other Cape > bulbs described in the 17th century make wildly inaccurate allusions > to their purported places of origin, among them Albuca canadensis ( = > A. flaccida), Brunsvigia orientalis, and the Malgas (Madagascar) lily, > Cybistetes longifolia." > > >From what other accounts I've read it seems that bulbs were collected > at different parts of the world on a ships' single voyage and that > often the collection would get jumbled up by the time it arrived back > in Europe. One can only imagine the confusion with which Linnaeus and > other taxonomists we beset with when naming some of the first Cape > bulbs. > > Aloha, > > Jacob Knecht > Honolulu, Hawai`i > From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Mar 25 18:09:15 2008 Message-Id: <47E98608.1020900@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Clivia Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:08:56 -0500 A second picture taken using late day sunshine. Quite a difference. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Clivia Arnold New Jersey (The Garden State?) From hoe@sify.com Tue Mar 25 21:41:32 2008 Message-Id: <00b201c88ee1$1ebcbad0$0132a8c0@yourd36eabcf87> From: "Himalayan Orchid Exports (U.C.Pradhan)" Subject: [Fwd: Re: Test - and cultivation tips] Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:01:28 +0530 Dear Arnold, Dear Arnold. Pea shingles are tiny pebbles of the diam-0.5-1 cm that we obtain from river banks. Our are micaceous in nature and hence do retain some amount of moisture also. Your could think of something readily available your end that helps in good drainage. Goodluck. Udai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arnold Trachtenberg" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 2:15 AM Subject: [pbs] [Fwd: Re: Test - and cultivation tips] > > Okay, Udai I'll bite what is > > "pea shingles" > > Thanks, > > Arnold > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 > 8:10 PM > > From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Tue Mar 25 21:55:01 2008 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: canadensis Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 19:54:59 -0700 Thank you all, that was very interesting and informative. Linda From christopherwhitehouse@rhs.org.uk Wed Mar 26 06:52:57 2008 Message-Id: <03C1FD2D3BA79B48A8DB619A68FAD076203D95@vsmail.rhs.net> From: Subject: Albucas and other South African Hyacinthaceae Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:47:06 -0000 > > It would be useful to go back to the original description by Linnaeus to know what is the derivatio nominis of the name. > Interestingly, having just done this, Linnaeus was under no illusion about where the plant came from as he states "Habitat in Africa" in his Species Plantarum (1753). The confusion appears to originate from earlier in history, for under his Ornithogalum canadense Linnaeus cites Jacques-Philippe Cornut's 1635 publication Canadensium plantarum, aliarumque nondum editarum historia, which describes and illustrates about 30 Canadian plants (and other previously unaccounted for ones). To add to the confusion though, Cornut did not appear to believe that the plant came from Canada either, as he describes it as "Ornithogalum luteovirens indicum", suggesting an origin in India or the West Indies. The illustration by Cornut can be found in Gunn & Codd's Botanical Exploration of Southern Africa, where they also mention 4 other bulbs that are illustrated in this obscure early publication: Chasmanthe aethiopica, Cybistetes longifolia, Nerine sarniensis and Romulea rosea (C. longifolia and R. rosea are also considered to be Indian by Cornut, while N. sarniensis is suggested to be Japanese!). So maybe Linnaeus just decided to name Ornithogalum canadense (Albuca Canadensis) after Cornut's book rather than Canada? Interesting to hypothesise but I guess we will never know. Chris Dr Christopher Whitehouse Keeper of the Herbarium RHS Garden Wisley WOKING Surrey GU23 6QB Tel: 01483 224234 Fax: 01483 211750

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From christopherwhitehouse@rhs.org.uk Wed Mar 26 07:02:05 2008 Message-Id: <03C1FD2D3BA79B48A8DB619A68FAD076203D96@vsmail.rhs.net> From: Subject: Albucas and other South African Hyacinthaceae Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:02:25 -0000 > The illustration by Cornut can be found in Gunn & Codd's Botanical > Exploration of Southern Africa Which for those who are interested is available to view on Google Books, try to find p.20 or search on Google Books for "Gunn Codd Botanical" and then within the book for "Cornut" I still find it incredible that Google are allowed to put all this information up for us to browse freely - long may it last (although I am sure there is a catch somewhere). Chris Dr Christopher Whitehouse Keeper of the Herbarium RHS Garden Wisley WOKING Surrey GU23 6QB Tel: 01483 224234 Fax: 01483 211750

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The contents of this email and any files transmitted with it are confidential, proprietary and may be legally privileged. They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender. If you are not the intended recipient you may not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this email. The sender is not responsible for any changes made to any part of this email after transmission. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Society. Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free from any virus or other defects which might affect any computer or IT system into which they are received, no responsibility is accepted by the Society or any of its associated companies for any loss or damage arising in any way from the receipt or use thereof. The Royal Horticultural Society (RHS) is the UK’s leading gardening charity dedicated to advancing horticulture and promoting good gardening. Anyone with an interest in gardening can enjoy the benefits of RHS membership and help us to secure a healthy future for gardening. For more information call: 0845 130 4646, or visit http://www.rhs.org.uk Reg charity no. 222879/SC038262

From dells@voicenet.com Wed Mar 26 07:17:00 2008 Message-Id: <20080326111700.6B2714C016@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX CLOSED Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:16:40 -0400 Wow, things went fast. Packages should go out after the weekend. Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From mmattus@charter.net Wed Mar 26 07:56:33 2008 Message-Id: From: MATT MATTUS Subject: Clivia 'Vico Yellow' Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:06:44 -0400 When in Japan in 2001, I received a few hundred seeds from Mr. Nakamura while visiting his greenhouses, of various Clivia crosses, many selections attributed to Vico Yellow ( Vico Yellow x Vico Gold, etc.) Many are beginning to bloom now, but I also had about 5 which had started blooming two years ago in 1996. For what it's worth, I have experienced a larger first flowering with many blossoms over four inches in diameter ( some with slight fragrance, and very wide). While in more recent flowerings, the blossoms have been much smaller. Like Jim, I also do not fuss over my plants, so of course, there could be many other factors. They spend most of their time under the benches in my cool greenhouse in Massachusetts. Many should be repotted, or fertilized, I would imagine that Jim's plants are treated better. If you are interested, many of these Clivia are featured on my blog ( exploraculture.blogspot) under March 2006 - please forgive the horrid spelling! I'm lucky to get anything posted with my schedule. This spring, I have about 10 more plants from this lot of Vico parentage ( not T.C.) that are budding for the first time. I will try to photograph and post the images along with the established bloomers. Matt Mattus USDA Zone 5b Worcester, Massachusetts On 3/25/08 8:17 AM, "carlobal@netzero.com" wrote: > > John, > > It might be a good idea to hold your opinion of 'Vico Yellow' until you seen > more than a first bloom. From kellso@irvincentral.com Wed Mar 26 08:33:22 2008 Message-Id: <47EA4277.1070208@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Clivia 'Vico Yellow' Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:32:55 -0500 Here's a link to Matt's last post for March 2006 on Clivia: http://exploraculture.blogspot.com/2006/03/clivia-giant-yellow-x.html He has a handful of older posts directly before which can be accessed in backward order by clicking the "older post" link at the bottom of the posting. Very nice, Matt. Thanks. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b mailto:kellso@irvincentral.com http://www.irvincentral.com/ MATT MATTUS wrote: > If you are interested, many of these Clivia are featured on my blog ( > exploraculture.blogspot) under March 2006 - please forgive the horrid > spelling! I'm lucky to get anything posted with my schedule. From adam14113@ameritech.net Wed Mar 26 19:17:54 2008 Message-Id: <000501c88f97$9b7d1a40$52ec8f47@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: galanthus query Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:01:21 -0500 Hello All. I don't know galanthus and only have one. But it is blooming now, here in a Chicago suburb (NW sie) . I brought it from an abandoned house north of here about 10 years ago and it has bloomed ever since with no care whatsoever in a clayey loam. It has gone through -25° F and survived. It is never more than 4" high. Is the size and hardiness a clue to the species? They all look essentially the same to me, except for the size factor. (Parading my ignorance). Can anybody offer a reasonable guess as to species. I will believe anything you say, contrary to my usual skepticism. From leo@possi.org Wed Mar 26 17:06:54 2008 Message-Id: <37449.209.180.132.162.1206565612.squirrel@possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Gladiolus cultivation Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:06:52 -0700 (MST) > I would like to try to grow some [species Gladiolus] > ...actually, all of them - but I don't know quite where to begin. > Would any of you who have had success with this genus be so kind as to > share some cultivation tips with the rest of us? Hello Dell, I've been out of town for a week and am attacking the shrubbery in my inbox chronologically. The Glad species I've grown, both summer and winter growing, have been pretty easy once they germinate. But - I live in a very different climate from you. I hope you've received information from people who have to grow the winter-growers indoors. Also, there must be many different approaches. Here, so long as temperatures are correct, they grow easily outside in pots. Fresh seed sprouts well if kept very moist to very wet for some weeks. The winter growers seem to prefer a few weeks in the ground of warm days alternating with cool nights to sprout best. I had poor results until I began keeping my seedling pots very wet. Much of what I read warms of rot if kept too wet. With my low humidity that has never been a problem, and drying out has been much more a problem. I use deep pots for all my bulbs; my seedlings do best in 20-ounce foam cups, which are 3" wide at the top and 6" tall. (7.5cm wide x 15cm tall.) One drying out at the wrong time may be fatal for seedlings. I also use a soil with very little organic matter. Most of my winter bulbs grow much better if fertilized weakly and regularly during their growing season. In my absence my Hesperantha vaginata seems to have set three fruits though it was the only example of this genus flowering at the time. I should have some seed of this and hand-pollinated Babiana sinuata for the exchange before long. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From leo@possi.org Wed Mar 26 17:21:20 2008 Message-Id: <38065.209.180.132.162.1206566479.squirrel@possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Aff - able? Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:21:19 -0700 (MST) > Consanguineous Plants don't have blood. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From leo@possi.org Wed Mar 26 17:23:04 2008 Message-Id: <38102.209.180.132.162.1206566583.squirrel@possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Albuca superfast germinators Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:23:03 -0700 (MST) Debbie wrote > I've also got some A clanwilliamgloria hopefully > on its way from SilverHIll--I ordered that one because the picture was > nice in the Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs and I thought the name was cool. Remember that one is a winter grower (at least here in Phoenix.) Plant it next fall and keep it wet. Mine have been alive a few years but I haven't put them in pots big enough. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From dells@voicenet.com Wed Mar 26 18:45:59 2008 Message-Id: <9278.74.95.173.73.1206571413.squirrel@webmail.voicenet.com> From: dells@voicenet.com Subject: Gladiolus cultivation Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:43:33 -0400 (EDT) Thank you, Leo, for the good concrete advice. I look forward to your donation of seeds. Best regards, Dell >> I would like to try to grow some [species Gladiolus] >> ...actually, all of them - but I don't know quite where to begin. >> Would any of you who have had success with this genus be so kind as to >> share some cultivation tips with the rest of us? > > Hello Dell, > > I've been out of town for a week and am attacking the shrubbery in my > inbox chronologically. > > The Glad species I've grown, both summer and winter growing, have been > pretty easy once they germinate. But - I live in a very different climate > from you. I hope you've received information from people who have to grow > the winter-growers indoors. Also, there must be many different approaches. > > Here, so long as temperatures are correct, they grow easily outside in > pots. Fresh seed sprouts well if kept very moist to very wet for some > weeks. The winter growers seem to prefer a few weeks in the ground of warm > days alternating with cool nights to sprout best. > > I had poor results until I began keeping my seedling pots very wet. Much > of what I read warms of rot if kept too wet. With my low humidity that has > never been a problem, and drying out has been much more a problem. > > I use deep pots for all my bulbs; my seedlings do best in 20-ounce foam > cups, which are 3" wide at the top and 6" tall. (7.5cm wide x 15cm tall.) > One drying out at the wrong time may be fatal for seedlings. I also use a > soil with very little organic matter. > > Most of my winter bulbs grow much better if fertilized weakly and > regularly during their growing season. > > In my absence my Hesperantha vaginata seems to have set three fruits > though it was the only example of this genus flowering at the time. I > should have some seed of this and hand-pollinated Babiana sinuata for the > exchange before long. > > Leo Martin > Phoenix Arizona USA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From mmattus@charter.net Wed Mar 26 22:09:10 2008 Message-Id: From: MATT MATTUS Subject: Clivia 'Vico Yellow' Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:19:18 -0400 Thanks Kelly (and everyone) I was hesitant to include a link or a URL, not sure If it would offend someone, or block the email as Spam. I guess I am still a bit unfamiliar with PBS group protocol. Thank you for taking the time to forward a direct link to my blog. Today I noticed four more Vico Yellow seedlings blooming for the first time, perhaps I will post additional images soon. Matt Mattus Worcester, MA USA USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 5b On 3/26/08 8:32 AM, "Kelly Irvin" wrote: > Here's a link to Matt's last post for March 2006 on Clivia: > > http://exploraculture.blogspot.com/2006/03/clivia-giant-yellow-x.html > > He has a handful of older posts directly before which can be accessed in > backward order by clicking the "older post" link at the bottom of the > posting. Very nice, Matt. Thanks. > > Mr. Kelly M. Irvin > 10850 Hodge Ln > Gravette, AR 72736 > USA > 479-787-9958 > USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b > > mailto:kellso@irvincentral.com > http://www.irvincentral.com/ > > > > MATT MATTUS wrote: >> If you are interested, many of these Clivia are featured on my blog ( >> exploraculture.blogspot) under March 2006 - please forgive the horrid >> spelling! I'm lucky to get anything posted with my schedule. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From arnold@nj.rr.com Wed Mar 26 21:21:57 2008 Message-Id: <47EB04B1.6030605@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Albucas and other South African Hyacinthaceae Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:21:37 -0500 Chris: I would guess that the book is out of copyright and Google wants as many people as possible to visit their site. They may be accumulating data on who goes there. ( IP address) Arnold From Neil.Crawford@volvo.com Thu Mar 27 04:23:05 2008 Message-Id: From: "Crawford Neil" Subject: Brunsvigia josephinae Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:22:09 +0100 Hi, Here is a Brunsvigia that we believe is Brunsvigia josephinae, can anyone confirm? http://flickr.com/photos/22594688@N08/2364103165/ It's from the Swartberg pass fairly low down, in Western Cape South Africa, from the 11th February. We first thought it was B.orientalis, but the field guides say that is a more coastal species, Brunsvigia josephinae seems to be more mountainous. Is there a way of seeing the difference, we haven't been able to find a description of that. It was growing half-way down a hill so we had to use binoculars to see it, the photo is taken at 560mm focal length. Even so we were delighted to see it, as it was the only Brunsvigia we saw on our trip. Best regards Neil From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Thu Mar 27 04:50:38 2008 Message-Id: <001401c88fe7$83fad3d0$9252085a@acer6281efdef1> From: "brown.mark" Subject: galanthus query Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:49:49 +0100 Hello, Is it all possible to send an image of this plant?I grow 400 odd galanthus and should be able to help with a good photo or two. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Fikso" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 10:01 PM Subject: [pbs] galanthus query Hello All. I don't know galanthus and only have one. But it is blooming now, here in a Chicago suburb (NW sie) . I brought it from an abandoned house north of here about 10 years ago and it has bloomed ever since with no care whatsoever in a clayey loam. It has gone through -25° F and survived. It is never more than 4" high. Is the size and hardiness a clue to the species? They all look essentially the same to me, except for the size factor. (Parading my ignorance). Can anybody offer a reasonable guess as to species. I will believe anything you say, contrary to my usual skepticism. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From msittner@mcn.org Thu Mar 27 11:06:00 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080327074453.015fffe8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions -- Fritillaria, Diuris Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:05:38 -0700 Hi, Mary Gerristen has recently added some habitat pictures of Fritillaria pluriflora taken at Bear Valley, Northern California where they were blooming in mass. What a sight that must have been. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NorthAmericanFritillarias#pluriflora I've added some more Australian tuberous orchid pictures to the wiki. The genus Diuris is often referred to by the common name of Donkey Orchids because of two large petals that protrude from the top of the flower that reminds people of a donkey's ears. But some of the species are called Bee Orchids, Leopard Orchids, and even Purple Pansy Orchids. We saw a number of them on our trip to Australia and were always delighted when that happened. I've done my best to sort out the species we saw, but looking at my field guides and a couple of Australian orchid books and pictures online did not give me a lot of confidence. There are more than 50 species and so many recent changes in which name to use for each. My books don't have all the species, nor do they all reflect all the name changes and often the description for the different species is the same (flowers yellow and brown) which doesn't help in sorting them out. In addition I'm sure there has to be a lot of variation in the wild and probably hybrids. There is a wonderful Western Australian flora data base internet site which at least gives you pictures and a site map which helps you sort out which species in that state are found in the areas we visited and their time of bloom which eliminates a number of the possibilities. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Diuris Mary Sue From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Thu Mar 27 11:25:40 2008 Message-Id: <014701c8901e$cf247230$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Wiki Additions -- Fritillaria, Diuris Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:25:36 -0000 The Fritillaria pluriflora diisplay is indeed magnificent. Is this area protected in any way? John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Thu Mar 27 12:06:23 2008 Message-Id: <001101c89023$265970b0$db2b6f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: Wiki Additions -- Fritillaria, Diuris Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:56:41 -0700 Dear John: Yes, it is protected. The Nature Conservancy bought about about 30 acres where the major display is. Grazing is still allowed, but the ranchers are supposed to remove their cows when the plants are in growth. I have seen them in there, however, with a lot of plants chewed down to the ground soon after they finished bloom. This Fritillaria used to be common, but grazing has devastated most populations, also true of other bulbs. Where grazing is intense, both on the eastern and the western sides of the Central Valley, there are few bulbs except in areas of scrub where the cows can't get at them. One saving grace for some of these areas is that the only water for the cattle is from streams that often dry up before the plants themselves have dried and scattered their seed, necessitating the removal of the herds. This is probably why Bear Valley, where F. pluriflora grows, still has magnificent displays of wild flowers, as does Table Mountain on the east side of the Central Valley. Diana Chapman ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Grimshaw" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 8:25 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Wiki Additions -- Fritillaria, Diuris > The Fritillaria pluriflora diisplay is indeed magnificent. Is this area > protected in any way? > > John Grimshaw > > > Dr John M. Grimshaw > Sycamore Cottage > Colesbourne > Nr Cheltenham > Gloucestershire GL53 9NP > > Tel. 01242 870567 > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From alessandro.marinohob@alice.it Thu Mar 27 13:19:53 2008 Message-Id: <004401c8902e$8d141ca0$2701a8c0@microsof7d2734> From: "alessandro.marinohob" Subject: Posts to the list from multiple addresses Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:18:15 +0100 Michail non mi ha ancora risposto,deve mandarci ancora qualcosa? per i semi bx 167 sono stato veramente veloce se ne accorto anche Dell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Sue Ittner" To: Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 4:40 PM Subject: [pbs] Posts to the list from multiple addresses > Hi, > > Since this list has been hosted by ibiblio the amount of spam addressed to > it has increased dramatically. As this happens we as administrators > (Arnold, Diane, and me) have tried to cope with it and so has ibiblio. One > of the changes that ibiblio is making as of next week is to discard all > messages that come from addresses not subscribed to the list. In the past > anyone writing to the list who was not subscribed would get a message > telling them their note was not delivered since they were not a member of > the list. Unfortunately the spammers would then send spam to the address > that sent this message and soon the spam to this address was out of > control. > > At first we got all these messages delivered to our email addresses too, > but finally that was too much so they are now held in a place where we can > look at them. When those messages got to be 100s a day, ibiblio started to > filter them as well so the number of those we have to look at has recently > been reduced. If one of those message came from one of you using an > additional email address that was not the one you were subscribed under, > we > could help. Now those messages will just be discarded automatically > without > notice. So if you post to the group and you don't see that it appears, > check first to be sure that you used the same address for the messages you > receive. If you want to be able to post from multiple addresses you need > to > let Arnold, Diane, and me know. We can add the extra addresses as approved > addresses where you won't get messages but can send messages to our list. > A > number of you have already given us extra addresses. > > Messages from people trying to reach members of this list from the > archives > and looking for help we expect to be discarded automatically too. Diane > has > proposed a way we could still see these messages, but we haven't heard > from > ibiblio back to know if this is an alternative. This change will save us > time, especially Diane, but will mean that there are people we will no > longer be able to help. I think back to those early days of the Internet > when you didn't need a firewall, didn't have to worry about viruses or > other evil plans to steal your identity and/or wreck your computer, and > when you didn't receive all kinds of messages you don't want to get. > > Mary sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Thu Mar 27 14:02:27 2008 Message-Id: <47EBE12C.50201@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Wiki Additions -- Fritillaria, Diuris Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:02:20 -0700 From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Thu Mar 27 14:11:29 2008 Message-Id: <47EBE34E.1050208@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Fritillaria biflora Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:11:26 -0700 Sorry if this came through twice. It was blank when it arrived here. My daughter and I started our flower trips last weekend. She photographs, I enjoy. We were thrilled to visit one of our viewing spots to find a field of /Fritillaria biflora/ blooming heavily. I hadn't seen them before in all my years of wildflower looking! There were hundreds of bulbs in a sunny clay bank slope, from directly beside the road back at least 25 yards. What an Easter treat that was! This viewing area is on privately owned land, and the owner discourages trespassers. Marguerite From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Mar 27 16:41:42 2008 Message-Id: <001201c8904b$40de3330$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Fritillaria tubiformis Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:43:44 -0400 I’ve just posted two images of Fritillaria tubiformis to the wiki. These show a form intermediate between the typical dark maroon form and the bright yellow form called moggridgei. The big, brightly colored flowers make it the star of the cold frame this week. Take a look at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/EuropeanFritillaria The bulb came from Jane McGary; perhaps she can tell us something about its provenance. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where Lilium tsingtauense is above ground. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From piabinha@yahoo.com Thu Mar 27 20:41:32 2008 Message-Id: <910633.51520.qm@web51909.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: canadensis? Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:41:31 -0700 (PDT) i don't know if this was mentioned before, but in the era of the great orchid hunting, many neotropical orchids were named sinensis or chinensis (even though they were from peru or mexico) to throw off competing explorers. ========= tsuh yang ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From msittner@mcn.org Fri Mar 28 14:34:15 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080328113131.0310d728@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Sprekelia formossissima 'Orient Red' wanted Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:33:56 -0700 Hi, This message came in as a non member message, but was discarded. He has now joined our list. Can anyone help him with what looks like an impossible request? Mary Sue From: "Pablo Carreño" Hello, I live in Spain and I have an art exhibition to build up in France at the beginning of June. The problem is that I need about 6.000 Sprekelia Formosissima Orient Red to cover a big table and distribute to the people during the act. Those flowers have to be those flowers because they represents a relation between Santiago de Compostela and France. And I have no idea where can I find them. Does anybody know what can I do? Thank you very much -- Pablo Carreño Avenida de Arteixo 3, 1ºC 15004 A Coruña From eagle85@flash.net Fri Mar 28 16:31:11 2008 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Sprekelia formossissima 'Orient Red' wanted Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:31:08 -0700 Mary Sue, That request is very unrealistic. I have several hundred Sprekelia formossissima bulbs blooming, but I have never had more than 50 blooms that would be ready to be "harvested" and sent to Spain on a given date. Regards, Doug From piabinha@yahoo.com Fri Mar 28 17:03:52 2008 Message-Id: <945535.97253.qm@web51903.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: old seeds Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 14:03:36 -0700 (PDT) marguerite, i wouldn't try this, but i read that some scientists a few years ago germinated seed from a magnolia tree, that was a few thousand years old (the seeds, that is). so yes, some seeds do maitain amazing viability. > I found a package of seeds, including some old BX > seeds, while > cleaning this winter, and decided to try some of > them before I threw > them out. Good thing! I planted 5 pkts of > Romulea species and 2 of > Lachenalia from BX 5, sent in August, 2002. They > all germinated and I > have full pots of small seedlings growing strongly. > I was amazed at > the excellent germination rate from seeds so old. > What a miracle > geophyte seeds are! Now to try the remainder. ========= tsuh yang ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From jacobknecht@gmail.com Fri Mar 28 17:31:35 2008 Message-Id: <2f42069d0803281431i7fa99acet1d348110588789ce@mail.gmail.com> From: "Jacob Knecht" Subject: Sprekelia formossissima 'Orient Red' wanted Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:31:26 -1000 Hello all, I am curious, do Sprekelia formossissima flowers make long-lasting cut flowers? If so, wonder if they are grown at all commercially anywhere for this purpose. Aloha, Jacob Honolulu, Hawai`i On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:31 AM, Douglas Westfall wrote: > Mary Sue, > > That request is very unrealistic. I have several hundred Sprekelia > formossissima bulbs blooming, but I have never had more than 50 blooms > that would be ready to be "harvested" and sent to Spain on a given date. > > Regards, > > Doug > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- see my botanical photography at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/ From xerics@cox.net Fri Mar 28 17:49:46 2008 Message-Id: <00b301c89125$f831f460$96f9b546@richard> From: "Richard" Subject: Sprekelia formossissima 'Orient Red' wanted Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 14:49:11 -0800 They sure don't last long in the garden, at least not for me! Richard Vista CA -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jacob Knecht Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 1:31 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Sprekelia formossissima 'Orient Red' wanted Hello all, I am curious, do Sprekelia formossissima flowers make long-lasting cut flowers? If so, wonder if they are grown at all commercially anywhere for this purpose. Aloha, Jacob Honolulu, Hawai`i On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:31 AM, Douglas Westfall wrote: > Mary Sue, > > That request is very unrealistic. I have several hundred Sprekelia > formossissima bulbs blooming, but I have never had more than 50 blooms > that would be ready to be "harvested" and sent to Spain on a given > date. > > Regards, > > Doug > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- see my botanical photography at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/ _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From samclan@redshift.com Fri Mar 28 22:25:24 2008 Message-Id: <001801c89144$22786ba0$6e49fb48@DF5XS5C1> From: "Shirley" Subject: old seeds Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:25:17 -0700 I suspect the seed companies wanted us to buy new supplies each year and inferred, by dating their packets with a particular year, that fresh was needed for germination. Not only geophytes but also perennials and annuals maintain their viability longer than we expect. You may get a smaller percentage of seeds germinating, but you still may be pleasantly surprised. So at least give them a try. Last year at Rancho Santa Ana Botanic Garden in Claremont, CA, I saw some 40 year old seeds they had germinated after being stored in a deep freeze. Almost 100% came up. They were part of the Center for Plant Conservation project to save endangered plants and restore them to their natural habitat. Shirley Meneice ----- Original Message ----- From: "piaba" To: Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 2:03 PM Subject: [pbs] old seeds > marguerite, > > i wouldn't try this, but i read that some scientists a > few years ago germinated seed from a magnolia tree, > that was a few thousand years old (the seeds, that > is). so yes, some seeds do maitain amazing viability. > >> I found a package of seeds, including some old BX >> seeds, while >> cleaning this winter, and decided to try some of >> them before I threw >> them out. Good thing! I planted 5 pkts of >> Romulea species and 2 of >> Lachenalia from BX 5, sent in August, 2002. They >> all germinated and I >> have full pots of small seedlings growing strongly. >> I was amazed at >> the excellent germination rate from seeds so old. >> What a miracle >> geophyte seeds are! Now to try the remainder. > > > > ========= > tsuh yang > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From khixson@nu-world.com Fri Mar 28 23:36:56 2008 Message-Id: <47EDB943.7080809@nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: old seeds Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:36:35 -0700 Dear Members > I suspect the seed companies wanted us to buy new supplies each year and > inferred, by dating their packets with a particular year, that fresh was > needed for germination. There are federal laws requiring that seed packages be marked with the year packaged, the germinating percentage--within six months, I believe --and country of origin. Supposedly this prevents seed companies from selling "bad" seed. Another well intentioned regulation from "Big Brother". How well the law is enforced is another matter. Ken From dryle@wi-net.com Sat Mar 29 17:42:26 2008 Message-Id: <001801c891e5$c63b9130$0201a8c0@VALUED7B9600FA> From: "David Ryle" Subject: Old seed Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 16:42:22 -0500 Hello all, With regards to the questions regarding seeds, I work for one of the largest U.S. mail-order seed houses and can tell you that the seeds viability is monitored extremely closely. Each and EVERY lot is germination tested every thirty days, all lots are required to exceed eighty seven percent or the lot is pulled.No variety that is sold by the company is exempt from this procedure. To say that the company is neurotic about this standard would not be considered an exaggeration.The penalties for infraction of the federal standard are relatively severe, and we are routinely monitored for compliance. regards David Ryle From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Sat Mar 29 18:03:43 2008 Message-Id: <32826373.1206828223057.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: Old seed Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 17:03:42 -0500 (GMT-05:00) .The penalties for infraction of the federal standard are relatively severe, and we are routinely monitored for compliance. The US Federal Seed Act applies to agricultural or vegetable seed. So do the individual state seed laws that I have read. Mark Mazer Hertford, NC From adam14113@ameritech.net Sun Mar 30 15:04:19 2008 Message-Id: <001001c89298$d60a6970$06428346@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 62, Issue 41 Seed germination standard Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:04:09 -0500 Didn't know that there was a federal germination standard. What is it? --are they? . From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Mar 30 17:15:42 2008 Message-Id: <47F010FA.90209@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Chionodoxa luciliae Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:15:22 -0500 Finally remembered to get a photo of the early spring bulb. Grows well in ivy under large beech trees which have not yet leafed out. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Chionodoxa Arnold New Jersey From aley_wd@mac.com Sun Mar 30 23:18:23 2008 Message-Id: <5239F55D-4E21-4E3D-BC6D-CDDBAEB37C3D@mac.com> From: William Aley Subject: old seeds Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 23:18:10 -0400 Hi Big brother's helper here. link to the Federal Seed act or 7 C.F.R. PART 201—FEDERAL SEED ACT REGULATIONS http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title07/7-3.1.1.7.28.html http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/seed/seed_pub.htm The date does help identify those seeds that have lower germination rates as time passes. William Aley aley_wd@mac.com On Mar 28, 2008, at 11:36 PM, Kenneth Hixson wrote: > Dear Members >> I suspect the seed companies wanted us to buy new supplies each >> year and >> inferred, by dating their packets with a particular year, that >> fresh was >> needed for germination. > > There are federal laws requiring that seed > packages be marked with the year packaged, the > germinating percentage--within six months, I believe > --and country of origin. Supposedly this prevents > seed companies from selling "bad" seed. > Another well intentioned regulation from > "Big Brother". How well the law is enforced is > another matter. > > Ken > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From B.J.M.Zonneveld@biology.leidenuniv.nl Mon Mar 31 03:56:01 2008 Message-Id: <8E19E8A2233ED74D8483ACF3FBB3603B018DCF65@iblmail.ibl.leidenuniv.nl> From: "B.J.M. Zonneveld" Subject: black spot on anthers in daffodils Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 09:56:41 +0200 Dear Daffodil lovers Let see what power the internet has. I am looking for the following:Could you check of you have any trumpet daffodil with a black spot at the tip of the anthers like they are present in N bujei and hispanicus? and obvallaris? From gardenstreet184@yahoo.com Mon Mar 31 20:06:47 2008 Message-Id: <649622.82196.qm@web36403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "C.J. Teevan" Subject: Chionodoxa luciliae Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 17:06:46 -0700 (PDT) I was under the impression C. lucilliae was pink, no? Arnold Trachtenberg wrote: Finally remembered to get a photo of the early spring bulb. Grows well in ivy under large beech trees which have not yet leafed out. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Chionodoxa Arnold New Jersey _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki --------------------------------- Special deal for Yahoo! users & friends - No Cost. Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now From arnold@nj.rr.com Mon Mar 31 21:09:21 2008 Message-Id: <47F19938.8050003@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Chionodoxa luciliae Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 21:08:56 -0500 CJ; I did some web searching to try to get the correct name and all the sources stated that it comes in blue and pink. See this; http://www.pc-nijssen.nl/shop/plaatje.php?code=392 Arnold New Jersey