From pjstegmaier@atlanticbb.net Sat Nov 1 12:07:44 2008 Message-Id: From: "PAMELA J FRICKER" Subject: Dipcadi Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 12:07:43 -0400 Greetings, I would like to know if anyone here has grown a Dipcadi crispum and how is the culture for growing this bulb? Is there someone who has bulbs for this plant for sale? Would this plant do well growing under lights indoors? I live in Western Maryland and it get cold here in the winter. I can only put my plants out in the summertime. I'm willing to grow from seeds too. Any information would be much appriciated. Thank you, Pamela From meneice@att.net Sat Nov 1 13:47:21 2008 Message-Id: <21F80AEA192949D1A7AE9B60449D7610@DF5XS5C1> From: Subject: Alstroemeria x bomarea Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 10:46:20 -0700 I also am growing the purported Alstroemeria x Bomarea cross, but cannot se any Alstroemeria characteristics in it. I have never grown Bomarea before, but believe that is what I am growing now. However, I am a complete amateur and this is only my observation from growing the plant in the ground in Zone 9, Pebble Beach, CA. It is vigorous, has had no disease or insect problems, but just does not seem "as advertised". Shirley Meneice -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of N Sterman Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:37 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Alstroemeria x bomarea I recently purchased a plant labeled Alstroemeria x Bomarea (or maybe Bomarea x Alstroemeria) from a nursery in Eugene. Its foliage looks very Alstreomeria like but a bit more blue-green than green. Flowers were just opening when I got it and were tubular coral - unfortunately, they disappeared in the week-long journey it took for the plant to make it from Portland to So California via UPS (I didn't have a choice but to have someone else ship it and the folks who packed it did a lousy job). I don't find mention of this intergeneric hybrid in the PBS wiki or in the archives - does anyone recall seeing a discussion about it? Or know anything about it? I'm wondering about where to plant it and what to expect it to do once it is in the ground.... Thanks! Nan ***************************************** Nan Sterman Plant Soup, Inc. TM TalkingPoints@PlantSoup.Com PO Box 231034 Encinitas, CA 92023 Order your personalized copy of the all new California Gardener's Guide vol II at www.PlantSoup.Com Watch A Growing Passion now on YouTube! Search for all five segments, starting at http://youtube.com/watch?v=4bpTdXY3cG8 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From zigur@hotmail.com Sat Nov 1 13:52:28 2008 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: Dipcadi Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 10:50:58 -0700 I have several unidentified Dipcadi sp., one of which resembles D. crispum, although it originates from the summer rainfall part of Namibia as opposed to the winter rainfall locality described for crispum. The attractiveness of the leaves of these plants is very dependent on growing conditions, particularly stong light. Indoors would not be likely to produce the attractive leaves characteristic of the species, in my opinion. T> From: pjstegmaier@atlanticbb.net> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 12:07:43 -0400> Subject: [pbs] Dipcadi> > Greetings,> > I would like to know if anyone here has grown a > Dipcadi crispum and how is the culture for growing this > bulb? Is there someone who has bulbs for this plant for > sale? Would this plant do well growing under lights > indoors? I live in Western Maryland and it get cold here > in the winter. I can only put my plants out in the > summertime. I'm willing to grow from seeds too. Any > information would be much appriciated.> > Thank you,> Pamela> _______________________________________________> pbs mailing list> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kenandbea@shaw.ca Sun Nov 2 01:08:17 2008 Message-Id: <596FD44CCC244B158CAFC00D0A7FD701@MOMS> From: "KenandBea" Subject: Alstroemeria x bomarea Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 22:08:00 -0700 I don't know if this helps at all but in my research I found out that Bomarea and Alstromeria DNA is indeed different. That is to say Bomarea has x=9 whereas Alstromeria has x=8. The reseach I read said that 3 of the 4 subgenus of Bomarea all had x=9 so it was expected the 4th to also be the same. Nan I am curious where you got your plant from. Would you mind telling me offline as I always want to grow another one:) Bea ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Harvey" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:52 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Alstroemeria x bomarea > > I do not believe the chromosome count is an absolute barrier as you > suggest. After all, horses and donkeys are different (32 and 31 pairs, > respectively). > > T> From: rarebulbs@suddenlink.net> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Date: Sun, > 26 Oct 2008 13:45:24 -0700> Subject: Re: [pbs] Alstroemeria x bomarea> > > The chromosome count in Bomarea and Alstroemeria would make them > > incompatible as far as crossing them is concerned, and the chromosomes > have > other differences, those of Alstroemeria being much larger with > more DNA > than Bomarea. Therefore .... it isn't a hybrid. My guess is > that it is B. > hirtella, the most adaptable of the Bomareas found in > commerce, especially > from the coral color of the outer tepals, and that > it was in bloom in (I > presume) a small container. All the other Bomareas > I grow need a large pot > to bloom at all (2gal minimum, 5gal better). > They probably tacked on > 'alstroemeria' to the name because most people > know what an Alstromeria > looks like, but wouldn't recognize the name > 'Bomarea'.> > Diana> Telos Rare Bulbs> www.telosrarebulbs.com> ----- > Original Message ----- > From: "N Sterman" antSoup.Com>> To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Sent: > Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:36 PM> Subject: [pbs] Alstroemeria x bomarea> > > > >I recently purchased a plant labeled Alstroemeria x Bomarea (or maybe> > > Bomarea x Alstroemeria) from a nursery in Eugene. Its foliage looks> > > very Alstreomeria like but a bit more blue-green than green. Flowers> > > were just opening when I got it and were tubular coral -> > unfortunately, > they disappeared in the week-long journey it took for> > the plant to make > it from Portland to So California via UPS (I didn't> > have a choice but > to have someone else ship it and the folks who> > packed it did a lousy > job).> >> > I don't find mention of this intergeneric hybrid in the PBS > wiki or in> > the archives - does anyone recall seeing a discussion about > it? Or> > know anything about it? I'm wondering about where to plant it > and> > what to expect it to do once it is in the ground....> >> > Thanks!> > >> > Nan> >> > ____________________ > ___________________________> pbs mailing list> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.3/1747 - Release Date: 10/26/2008 > 9:27 AM > > From dells@voicenet.com Sun Nov 2 14:06:57 2008 Message-Id: <13166.74.94.19.117.1225652813.squirrel@webmail.voicenet.com> From: dells@voicenet.com Subject: (no subject) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 14:06:53 -0500 (EST) NOTA BENE -> I am having trouble with my server, so expect the unexpected! Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 190" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Uli Urban: 1. Freshly harvested seed of Tropaeolum. pentaphyllum. ssp megalopetalum. It is strictly summer growing and comes from temperate climates in Bolivia. It forms a huge beet like tuber and is a vigorous climber with annual shoots and will go totally dormant in winter. No idea how hardy the tuber is - have not dared to test this. Seed germinated erratically, sometimes fast, sometimes after more than a year. I recommend sowing singly it in moist jiffy pots after removing the outer blue skin and then seal everything in a plastic bag and keep it at fluctuating temperatures not too warm. From Alberto Grossi: SEED: 2. Iris graminea 3. Amaryllis belladonna 4. Arthropodium cirratum From Dell Sherk: 5. Bulbs of Sprekelia formosissima, most near blooming size. I grow this in pots and keep them absolutely dry and cool in winter. Blooms in spring/early summer after watering commences. 6. Rainlily bulb potluck. Years ago I grew nearly 40 rainlily species and cultivars. To make more space, I moved them all to communal pots and gave the extras to the BX. Now it is time to repot, and here are the extras again. No names, but this past summer I would estimate that at least a dozen different ones (colors, shapes, sizes) bloomed. From David Ehrlich: SEED: 7. Sisyrinchium californicum 8. Aristea ecklonii From Phillip Andrews: 9. Seed of Hymenocallis sp., probably H. littoralis. This is a hymenocallis from the barrier islands of the Bahamas that has adapted to the dunes in that it pushes itself up each growing season as sand builds up. The leaves are generally 2 – 3 ft in length and the flower stalk is usually about a foot taller. Under ideal conditions I have seen the flower stalk at shoulder height. I put a couple of pictures of this cohort of plants on the PBS wiki about a year ago. The seeds in habitat generally sprout on top of the sand (oolitic limestone), but I generally have good luck burying the seeds halfway in wet sand. Give the seeds lots of light and good heat and the success rate should approach 100%. The seeds should be planted immediately because they will sprout shortly. The plants grow in full sun, low nutrient limestone sand, high humidity, and exposure to salt spray. They also do well directly on limestone with minimal sand. Rainfall is typically about 30 inches annually with the bulk of that rain June through November and about 1 inch in other months. From Bob Werra: SEED: 10. Calochortus amoenus 11. Calochortus weedii 12. Calochortus venustus 13. Calochortus amabilis 14. Calochortus plummerae 15. Calochortus obispoensis 16. Erythronium californicum 17. Fritillaria affinis 18. Fritillaria acmopetala 19. Fritillaria biflora Thank you, Uli, Alberto, David, Phillip, and Bob !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From wusong@evilemail.com Mon Nov 3 14:01:20 2008 Message-Id: From: "dave s" Subject: Ledebouria guru needed Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 14:01:18 -0500 I'm amassing a collection of different clones of L. socialis. I was curious to know if anyone knew of material with data here in the 'States. Another question - what IS the origin of L. socialis "miner" - is it a hybrid, or merely a cultivar. Is it simply a locality-specific form of this varaible species? Finally, what IS L. socialis "Gila Monster? I get a hybrid vibe from it, but...? Thanks, Dave S. From msittner@mcn.org Mon Nov 3 15:02:51 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20081103115440.030f8c10@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Mystery Haemanthus Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 12:02:31 -0800 Hi, Alessandro Marinello has added a picture to the Mystery Page of a Haemanthus that he'd like help identifying. The picture is of the leaves and it would be helpful I think to know if it is evergreen or deciduous and when it blooms and information about the flowers. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MysteryBulbs From othonna@gmail.com Mon Nov 3 15:54:36 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260811031254r7401512w508ee9f7f37cd71e@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Mystery Haemanthus Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:54:35 -0800 Probably a form of H. coccineus. Dylan Hannon On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 12:02 PM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Hi, > > Alessandro Marinello has added a picture to the Mystery Page of a > Haemanthus that he'd like help identifying. The picture is of the leaves > and it would be helpful I think to know if it is evergreen or deciduous and > when it blooms and information about the flowers. > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MysteryBulbs > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From lizwat@earthlink.net Mon Nov 3 16:44:55 2008 Message-Id: <490F7114.70504@earthlink.net> From: Liz Waterman Subject: [Fwd: Seeds ....] Lifestyle Seeds SA Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 13:45:56 -0800 Perhaps of interest to this list, too. Liz W -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Seeds .... Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 10:39:54 -0800 From: N Sterman Reply-To: TalkingPoints@plantsoup.com To: MEDIT-PLANTS@ucdavis.edu Plants References: <005401c93dd7$26b04900$0100a8c0@Office1> thought this might interest some members.... Begin forwarded message: > *From: *"Lifestyle Seeds SA; Dawie Human" > > *Date: *November 3, 2008 9:10:41 AM PST > *To: * > *Subject: **Fw: updated seed list* > > > > Dear seed enthusiasts > > It is time again to remind you of all the new arrivals at Lifestyle > Seeds. Please visit the website to see what is > available.www.lifestyleseeds.co.za > > Remember for those of you who still want to see the old seedlist on > the excell file it is still available, just let me know and I can add > your name to the list of the people who wants to see it. > > Hereby a short summary of all the new arrivals but you can also look > under "Fresh arrivals" on the website. > Enjoy playing with seeds. > Dawie Human > Lifestyle Seeds > > *Fresh arrivals* > * * > *Acacia brevispica* > *Acacia gerrardii* > *Acacia hereroensis* > *Acacia nigrescens* > *Acacia nilotica* > *Acacia sieberiana* > *Acacia xanthophloea* > *Adansonia digitata* > *Albizia adianthifolia* > *Anthocleista grandiflora* > *Carissa macrocarpa* > *Chironia linoides* > *Chlorophytum krookianum* > *Curtisia dentata* > *Cussonia spicata* > *Cussonia transvaalensis* > *Cysticapnos vesicarius* > *Dimorphotheca cuneata* > *Diospyros pallens* > *Euryops virgineus* > *Faidherbia albida* > *Galpinia transvaalica* > *Gardenia thunbergii* > *Halleria lucida* > *Hebenstretia comosa* > *Hemimeris racemosa* > *Hermannia angularis* > *Indigofera filifolia* > *Kigelia africana* > *Lasiospermum bipinatum* > *Leucosidea sericea* > *Leucospermum praecox* > *Loxostylis alata* > *Mark**heimia zanzibarica* > *Mundulea sericea* > *Myrica cordifolia* > *Nemesia barbata* > *Nylandtia spinosa* > *Nymania capensis* > *Olinia emarginata* > *Otholobium arborescens* > *Pelargonium dasyphyllum* > *Peltophorum africanum* > *Rhus chirindensis* > *Rhus lancea* > *Schotia afra* > *Sideroxylon inerme* > *Strelitzia nicolai* > *Strychnos pungens* > *Zaluzianskya pulvinata* > *Babiana fourcadei* > *Babiana nana* > *Babiana patula* > *Babiana stricta dark* > *Babiana stricta white* > *Baeometra uniflora* > *Clivia miniata* > *Clivia miniata broad leaves* > *Crinum bulbispermum* > *Dipcadi ciliare* > *Drimia altissima / Urginea epigea* > *Drimia calcaratha* > *Drimia uniflora* > *Eucomis autumnalis* > *Eucomis zambesiaca* > *Galtonia regalis* > *Gladiolus carinatus (large yellow)* > *Gladiolus liliaceus (large with red lines)* > *Gladiolus scullyi* > *Gladiolus tristis* > *Gladiolus virescens* > *Lachenalia fistulosa* > *Lachenalia perryae* > *Lachenalia rubida* > *Lapeirousia jacquinii* > *Lapeirosia pyramidalis* > *Moraea spathulata* > *Nerine flexuosa* > *Ornithogalum multifolia* > *Ornithogalum saundersiae* > *Ornithogalum tenuifolium* > *Sparaxis auriculata* > *Spiloxene capensis white* > *Spiloxene capensis yellow* > *Spiloxene serrata* > *Tulbaghia galpinii* > *Watsonia fourcadei* > *Adenia glauca* > *Aloe aculeata red* > *Aloe arborescens* > *Aloe buhrii* > *Aloe candelabrum* > *Aloe claviflora* > *Aloe comosa* > *Aloe ferox* > *Aloe framesii* > *Aloe gerstneri* > *Aloe globuligemma* > *Aloe krapholiana* > *Aloe lutescens* > *Aloe maculata orange* > *Aloe melanacantha* > *Aloe mudenensis* > *Aloe plicatilis* > *Aloe pratensis* > *Aloe pretoriensis* > *Aloe pruinosa* > *Aloe ramosissima* > *Aloe reitzii* > *Aloinopsis malerbei* > *Anacampseros albidiflora* > *Anacampseros namaquensis* > *Argyroderma deleatii* > *Avonia ustulata* > *Brownanthus pubescens* > *Bulbine caespitosa* > *Bulbine latifolia* > *Bulbine praemorsa* > *Cephalophyllum francisii* > *Cheiridopsis carinata* > *Cheiridopsis meyeri* > *Conophytum minutum* > *Crassula falcata* > *Crassula rupestris* > *Delosperma napiforme (Mestoklema makrorhizum)* > *Ebracteola montis-moltkei* > *Euphorbia braunsii* > *Euphorbia caput-medusae* > *Euphorbia clandestina* > *Euphorbia clava* > *Euphorbia grandicornis* > *Euphorbia heptagona* > *Euphorbia mammillaris* > *Euphorbia meloformis ssp. valida* > *Euphorbia monteroi* > *Euphorbia obesa* > *Euphorbia obesa ssp. symmetrica* > *Euphorbia stellispina* > *Faucaria kingiae* > *Gibbaeum velutinum* > *Glottiphyllum depressum (haagei)* > *Lithops aucampiae* > *Lithops dorotheae* > *Lithops karasmontana ssp. bella* > *Lithops lesliei ssp. lesliei var. minor* > *Lithops marmorata var. elisae* > *Lithops marmorata var. marmorata* > *Lithops meyeri* > *Lithops olivacea* > *Lithops ruschiorum* > *Lithops terricolor C134* > *Monilaria pisiforme* > *Oophytum oviforme* > *Pleiospilos bolusii* > *Trichocaulon piliferum* > > * * From cvschalkwyk@lantic.net Tue Nov 4 06:11:42 2008 Message-Id: From: "Christiaan van Schalkwyk" Subject: Oxalis on the wiki Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 13:11:18 +0200 Hi all The pages on South African Oxalis have been changed extensively. Thanks Mary Sue Ittner and Nhu Nguyen for spliting the pages and doing all the corrections. Thanks Mary Sue for guiding me through the whole process ! About 90 photographs and 29 "new" species have been added, and others expanded or added to. These can be seen at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Oxalis Or, for: South African Oxalis A-B http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalis South African Oxalis C http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisTwo South African Oxalis D-E http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisThree South African Oxalis F-G http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisFour South African Oxalis H-K http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisFive South African Oxalis L-M http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisSix South African Oxalis N-O http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisSeven South African Oxalis P http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisEight South African Oxalis R-S http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisNine South African Oxalis T-Z http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisTen I am looking for more info on Oxalis "fragrans", and where it was originally collected to help with correct Id. If anyone has info, please contact me. Enjoy Christiaan From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Tue Nov 4 08:22:24 2008 Message-Id: <633380.97395.qm@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: Ledebouria guru needed Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 05:22:23 -0800 (PST) Hello,  "Miner" is from Michael Vassar and was introduced through the Huntington BG list (HBG 73608) in 2004. I am sure it was offered somewhere before that though, because it is becoming fairly widespread now. It is supposed to a dwarf form with different maculation on the leaves, more silver overall.  "Gila Monster" is also sold under, lutea, pauciflora, giant socialis, etc. I grow this from a friend and it seems to go into dormancy more so than socialis. It is also larger in all respects. Seems distinct enough that it could be a closely related species.  I have a wild collected form of socialis (with provenance), that sets masses of seed, and thus seedlings, that was collected in South Africa a few years ago.  If you, or anyone, are interested in trading I have a collection of many, many Ledebouria.  All the best,  Aaron Floden  Knoxville, TN   --- On Tue, 11/4/08, dave s wrote: From: dave s Subject: [pbs] Ledebouria guru needed To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 3:01 AM I'm amassing a collection of different clones of L. socialis. I was curious to know if anyone knew of material with data here in the 'States. Another question - what IS the origin of L. socialis "miner" - is it a hybrid, or merely a cultivar. Is it simply a locality-specific form of this varaible species? Finally, what IS L. socialis "Gila Monster? I get a hybrid vibe from it, but...? Thanks, Dave S. From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Nov 4 11:22:11 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Oxalis recommendations? Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 10:23:59 -0500 >Dear Christiaan, Mary Sue, Nhu and all, All the new pix are dazzling, BUT.... ......to me Oxalis is an alternate spelling for 'weed'. I need some recommendations and advice for some good looking, easy to grow species or cvs. that are: 1. Hardy 2. Easy to winter over in a cold climate 3. Not likely to jump around and become a new weed in pots 4. Showy 5. Other fabulous quality. Right now I only intentionally grow O. versicolor (Thanks Roy and BX) which has just begun to bloom again. Can someone give a list of top 10 easy/hardy etc Oxalis for pot or ground? Thanks Jim -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From xerantheum@gmail.com Tue Nov 4 10:59:42 2008 Message-Id: From: "Nhu Nguyen" Subject: Oxalis on the wiki Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 07:59:41 -0800 Hi Christiaan, Thank you for posting all these great species and photos on the wiki. I must say that I am super excited to see them all! I am too an Oxalis fan. Some of the species you posted I have never seen before and are truly exceptional. I look forward to more great photos in the future. Nhu On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 3:11 AM, Christiaan van Schalkwyk < cvschalkwyk@lantic.net> wrote: > Hi all > > The pages on South African Oxalis have been changed extensively. > > Thanks Mary Sue Ittner and Nhu Nguyen for spliting the pages and doing all > the corrections. Thanks Mary Sue for guiding me through the whole process ! > > About 90 photographs and 29 "new" species have been added, and others > expanded or added to. These can be seen at: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Oxalis > > Or, for: > South African Oxalis A-B > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalis > South African Oxalis C > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisTwo > South African Oxalis D-E > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisThree > South African Oxalis F-G > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisFour > South African Oxalis H-K > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisFive > South African Oxalis L-M > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisSix > South African Oxalis N-O > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisSeven > South African Oxalis P > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisEight > South African Oxalis R-S > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisNine > South African Oxalis T-Z > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisTen > > I am looking for more info on Oxalis "fragrans", and where it was > originally > collected to help with correct Id. If anyone has info, please contact me. > > Enjoy > > Christiaan > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/ From msittner@mcn.org Tue Nov 4 11:10:11 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20081104080007.035e0ac8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Oxalis on the wiki Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:09:47 -0800 I'd like thank Christiaan for adding all those photos and text to the wiki of South African Oxalis he grows. A lot of the information he added is not easily available as copies of Salter are very expensive to obtain and some of the newer research also is not in a form most of us can access. The Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs chose to leave Oxalis out so that great source of information on Cape bulbs in not a resource unfortunately. It took him many hours to finish the task and I'm sure Oxalis lovers will be grateful as they discover this resource just as others have been when they have found some of our wiki pages that have been created by people who are passionate about a specific genus. Mary Sue From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Tue Nov 4 12:12:35 2008 Message-Id: <3b9284cd0811040912o500a7d51vd943f379a2604027@mail.gmail.com> From: "Jan Agoston" Subject: Oxalis recommendations? Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 18:12:34 +0100 Oxalis articulata var. crassipes is hardy in Z5a if you put 5 cm (2 inch) of polystyrene foam (=styrofoam),plant in full sun. Seedlings are not hardy here, so without protection they die. Best, J. Agoston 2008/11/4 James Waddick > >Dear Christiaan, Mary Sue, Nhu and all, > > All the new pix are dazzling, BUT.... > > ......to me Oxalis is an alternate spelling for 'weed'. > > I need some recommendations and advice for some good looking, > easy to grow species or cvs. that are: > > 1. Hardy > > 2. Easy to winter over in a cold climate > > 3. Not likely to jump around and become a new weed in pots > > 4. Showy > > 5. Other fabulous quality. > > Right now I only intentionally grow O. versicolor (Thanks Roy > and BX) which has just begun to bloom again. > > > Can someone give a list of top 10 easy/hardy etc Oxalis for > pot or ground? > > > Thanks Jim > > > > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Wed Nov 5 02:23:30 2008 Message-Id: <491149E7.8030404@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: The Bulb Garden Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 23:23:19 -0800 Arnold just mailed the fall issue to all PBS members. Jen and I hope you enjoy this last issue for the year. Jane McGary's 'travelogue' article and her pictures of bulb flowers growing in their native Mediterranean climate are delightful, and Leo Martin's article about bulbs that grow well in the desert should tantalize those of you who live in colder climes. If you are a member and don't get your issue in a week or so, please e-mail Arnold Trachtenberg or me. And don't forget to renew your membership for next year! The winter issue is going to be another interesting one, filled with articles about three different genera that you may be interested in using in your own garden or greenhouse. .And, of course, if you have a yen to write a bit about your own garden or your favorite genus, I would love to receive an article from you. Marguerite, Editor: The Bulb Garden From cvschalkwyk@lantic.net Wed Nov 5 05:06:14 2008 Message-Id: <7BA5A08513E3430C913F2EBEDB4AF891@h4l> From: "Christiaan van Schalkwyk" Subject: Oxalis recommendations? Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 12:06:46 +0200 Hi Jim > ......to me Oxalis is an alternate spelling for 'weed'. Unfortunately some species are rightly called weeds, in my experience they are all American species !! Seriously, though, I guess most Oxalis could be potential weeds if the conditions are good for them and IF they could escape from cultivation. All South African species are bulbous and many produce underground runners. If kept in pots on a shelf they will not escape, some might try the drainage holes as an escape route, but if checked regularly this can be prevented. It is also an indication that the potsize is too small. See also #3 below. > 1. Hardy Most of the winter growing species should be fairly hardy, maybe some of the American growers should comment on this. The summer growing species are dormant in winter, and should also be quite hardy. > 2. Easy to winter over in a cold climate Someone else with experience, please ? > 3. Not likely to jump around and become a new weed in pots Not likely to do so - seed production is very limited and rare in most species of South African Oxalis because not all three (or at least two) of the stylar forms that are needed for polination to occur are available in collections. Mostly the species propagate vegetatively, and thus would stay inside the pot where it was orriginally planted. Seeds might be produced in larger collections if many different localities or forms of similar species are present, as it increase the likelyhood that more than one stylar form is present. Four species-groups come to mind: Oxalis hirta, Oxalis obtusa, and Oxalis flava/fabaefolia/namaquana, O purpurea. > 4. Showy If looked after well most South African species can be beautiful during flowering, some species have unfortunately only a short flowering time. Some are quite nice as leafy plants, eg. O. flava, O. palmifrons, O.bowiei > Can someone give a list of top 10 easy/hardy etc Oxalis for > pot or ground? My favourites: O amigua, annae, bowiei, convexula, glabra, inaequalis, lawsonii, obtusa, purpurea, tenella O. obtusa and O. purpurea have may different forms, and you can build up a decent collection with only these two species. (I have more than 50 different O. obtusa colours and forms, and will easily accept more !) hope this helps Christiaan From Theladygardens@aol.com Wed Nov 5 20:44:28 2008 Message-Id: From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: OT humor: Gardener's Psychiatric hotline Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 20:44:23 EST Sorry, I couldn't help myself... Cheers! Ring, ring...Hello! and welcome to the Gardener's Psychiatric hotline. If you are buying plants, yet have no space or time to plant them, you are obsessive-compulsive. Please press 1 repeatedly. If you want someone else to do the digging, you are co-dependent. Please ask someone to press 2. If you will plant anything and everything, you have multiple personalities. Please press 3, 4, and 5. If you are sure the sun, rain, bugs, and plant diseases are out to get you, you are paranoid delusional. We know who you are and what you want..just stay on the line so we can trace the call. If you are sure the flowers are talking to you, listen carefully and a little voice will tell you which button to press. If you can't throw away a plant, even if it is dying, you are manic-depressive and it doesn't matter which button you press. If you think your garden is being attacked by evil spirits, press 6-6-6. If you continue to plant only flowers with fragrance, you are nasally fixated. Please press the scratch-and-sniff button. If you occasionally hallucinate and know that this year your garden is going to look as good or better than Martha Stewart's please be aware that the thing you are now holding to the side of your head is alive and is about to bite your ear. **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) From kellso@irvincentral.com Wed Nov 5 23:54:45 2008 Message-Id: <49127880.6070602@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: OT humor: Gardener's Psychiatric hotline Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 22:54:24 -0600 Hmmm. I appear to have a number of issues I'm dealing with. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ Theladygardens@aol.com wrote: > > Sorry, I couldn't help myself... > Cheers! > > > Ring, ring...Hello! and welcome to the Gardener's Psychiatric hotline. > If you are buying plants, yet have no space or time to plant them, you are > obsessive-compulsive. Please press 1 repeatedly. > If you want someone else to do the digging, you are co-dependent. Please > ask someone to press 2. > If you will plant anything and everything, you have multiple personalities. > Please press 3, 4, and 5. > If you are sure the sun, rain, bugs, and plant diseases are out to get you, > you are paranoid delusional. We know who you are and what you want..just > stay on the line so we can trace the call. > If you are sure the flowers are talking to you, listen carefully and a > little voice will tell you which button to press. > If you can't throw away a plant, even if it is dying, you are > manic-depressive and it doesn't matter which button you press. > If you think your garden is being attacked by evil spirits, press 6-6-6. > If you continue to plant only flowers with fragrance, you are nasally > fixated. Please press the scratch-and-sniff button. > If you occasionally hallucinate and know that this year your garden is going > to look as good or better than Martha Stewart's please be aware that the > thing you are now holding to the side of your head is alive and is about to > bite your ear. > > > > **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other > Holiday needs. Search Now. > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from > -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From youngs.aberdeen@btinternet.com Thu Nov 6 15:48:37 2008 Message-Id: <6EF8E1D77CAD418C88C0D939A3A7CBC5@userfba71dce46> From: "Ian Young" Subject: OT humor: Gardener's Psychiatric hotline Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 20:48:31 -0000 Hello, Fellow Bulb Lovers, I'm a lurker in these parts and have been delighted by the above named post.... I have stolen the text and posted it in the Forum of the Scottish Rock Garden Club ( part of www.srgc.org.uk .....here.... http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=918.msg60914#new ) I wonder if you could find out for me if the poster , Theladygardens at aol.com wrote the piece and if so, may I have her retrospective permission to re-post in the SRGC site and give her name to it, or does she prefer her pseudonym ? Many thanks, Margaret Young SRGC WebTeam From Theladygardens@aol.com Thu Nov 6 19:31:27 2008 Message-Id: From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: OT humor: Gardener's Psychiatric hotline Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 19:31:24 EST I was sent this from another person and don't know where they got it. I'm pretty sure they also did not write it, it's just going around as a forwarding e-mail. A couple of my gardening friends have changed it to orchids or roses and posted it to their orchid and rose societies. It's much to good to keep under to yourself. As far as I am concerned, continue the gun. PS. I'm a real bad case, I have every condition listed. Carolyn **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Nov 6 20:14:19 2008 Message-Id: <000601c94076$9de94980$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: OT humor: Gardener's Psychiatric hotline Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 20:17:33 -0500 Welcome to "this side", Maggi! Jim McKenney From rvanderhoff@sbcglobal.net Thu Nov 6 21:46:06 2008 Message-Id: <725218.29567.qm@web81003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ron Vanderhoff Subject: Oxalis recommendations? Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 18:46:04 -0800 (PST) Oxalis lovers (and haters), Jim Waddick asked for suggestions of the Top Ten Oxalis to grow. I've grown about 275 Oxalis species and forms and can't limit my favorites to just 10. So here are my top 14: Oxalis anomala: A very clean, medium sized white flower with yellow throat, but lots of them over a long period on a loose, sprawling plant and attractive plant. Oxalis fabaefolia: Such an easy plant to grow. When the sulfur yellow flowers are at their peak of bloom they will be a solid mass of color, so bright it's almost hard to look at. One of the most intense yellows in the bulb kingdom. Oxalis flava: There are so many forms that this is a collector's favorite. Flower color varies from yellows, similar to fabaefolia, to white and shades of pink. The attractive leaves also vary widely, always palmate and ranging from bright green narrow leaflets to blue green broad leaflets, sometimes with undulating margins. Oxalis gracilis: The wiry, thin and airy habit of this unusual species is a break from what one might expect from an Oxalis. The soft orange flowers are quite pretty sitting on top of the foliage. Oxalis inaequalis: The flower size doesn't seem right for this diminutive species. The very small, somewhat succulent leaves easily fit into a very small pot. But the 1-inch wide showy, bright coppery-orange flowers with yellow throats seem oversized for the plant. This species does form loads of crown bulbils, so be careful with it in mild climates. Oxalis peridicaria (syn. O. lobata): I'm a sucker for small, bright yellow flowers against deep green foliage. This one originates from Chile and is the only one on my list not of South African descent. Don't confuse this with O. perdicaria, which is South African, usually a creamy white and also a nice species to grow. Oxalis luteola: The many forms make this another collector's favorite. Most forms have varying degrees of burgundy red on the undersides of the fat, attractive leaves. Others have irregular splashes of the same color on the upper surface of the leaf. This low, matt-forming plant has large soft yellow flowers over a very long period - usually four months for me. Oxalis massoniana: This one is in bloom right now for me. The small, bright orange flowers with yellow centers are so numerous that there is no foliage to see. A nice compact plant as well. Oxalis meisneri: Another with brilliant yellow flowers and very deep, dark green foliage. But this time the foliage is thin and grassy appearing. Really quite pretty. Oxalis obtusa: The dozens of flower colors and ease of growing make this and O. purpurea the most popular of all African Oxalis - deservedly so. Oxalis palmifrons: Nice to grow if just for the attractive foliage. Just as well, because you may never see a flower. But still worth growing. Oxalis pardalis: There are some very pretty forms of this species with a bushy habit and narrow leaflets. The best forms have burgundy-red foliage and soft violet-pink flowers over a three month period. Oxalis purpurea: Like O. obtusa the huge variety of flower and foliage forms make this a hugely popular species. As a garden plant this might be even better than obtusa, although it will travel around a bit. Oxalis versicolor: Most Oxalis exhibit photonastic flower movements (the flowers open and close in response to light). For me, the best view of O. versicolor is on a cool overcast day, when the petals are closed and the candy-cane red margins are in full display. Hard to resist. Not far behind these choices would be Oxalis annae, cathara, glabra and stellata. Why isn't everyone growing Oxalis? Also, be sure to see Christiaan's great new additions to the Wiki, with photos of these and his excellent comments on each species. Ron Vanderhoff Sunny Southern California, where we're hoping for rain! _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Nov 7 17:59:31 2008 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Photos in The Bulb Garden Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 13:46:08 -0800 Thank you to Marguerite English for her nice presentation of my article in the new issue of The Bulb Garden. There is one correction to make: the photo on p. 9 captioned "Crocus baytopiorum" should be "Colchicum baytopiorum." There is, however, a different plant called Crocus baytopiorum -- it is a spring-blooming member of the C. vernus group with pale blue flowers. Both species honor a husband-and-wife team of Turkish botanists named Baytop (the name means "of the Baytops"). Also, in the captions on p. 10, should be Crocus asumaniae, not asumania; and this name commemorates Asuman Baytop, the wife of the said couple. To add to the discussion of Cyclamen graecum, I have a good plant of it growing in the open for the past 2 years. It survived a hard winter this past year and flowered in fall, as well as producing very large, showy leaves, obviously happy in a sloping scree bed. This species does well in full sun. I've given a talk based on these trips to a couple of NARGS chapters. I'm using some of the photos to develop another presentation on bulbs and their native habitats. Jane McGary From paph2@earthlink.net Fri Nov 7 19:55:15 2008 Message-Id: From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Photos in The Bulb Garden Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 16:54:42 -0800 Hi Jane: I enjoyed your article in this issue of the bulb garden. We went to Crete at about the same time a few years ago. It was great fun. I have a question and a comment. Is Galanthus peshmenii autumn flowering? Narcissus serotinus has been confused for centuries. The true N. serotinus is a smaller flower and has a lemon yellow corona with an inflated floral tube. Your flower with its orange corona is actually N. miniatus, the allopolyploid natural hybrid between N. serotinus and N. elegans. This has been confirmed by recent DNA analysis. All of the floras of the Mediterranean are wrong about the identity. This is an ancient hybrid, today the true N. serotinus is confined to Morocco, southern Portugal and a few sites in western Spain while the hybrid covers most of the Mediterranean. cheers Harold At 01:46 PM 11/7/2008, you wrote: >Thank you to Marguerite English for her nice presentation of my >article in the new issue of The Bulb Garden. > >There is one correction to make: the photo on p. 9 captioned "Crocus >baytopiorum" should be "Colchicum baytopiorum." There is, however, a >different plant called Crocus baytopiorum -- it is a spring-blooming >member of the C. vernus group with pale blue flowers. Both species >honor a husband-and-wife team of Turkish botanists named Baytop (the >name means "of the Baytops"). Also, in the captions on p. 10, should >be Crocus asumaniae, not asumania; and this name commemorates Asuman >Baytop, the wife of the said couple. > >To add to the discussion of Cyclamen graecum, I have a good plant of >it growing in the open for the past 2 years. It survived a hard >winter this past year and flowered in fall, as well as producing very >large, showy leaves, obviously happy in a sloping scree bed. This >species does well in full sun. > >I've given a talk based on these trips to a couple of NARGS chapters. >I'm using some of the photos to develop another presentation on bulbs >and their native habitats. > >Jane McGary > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kyle.b1@xtra.co.nz Fri Nov 7 21:37:17 2008 Message-Id: From: Kiyel Subject: Oxalis recommendations? Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 15:37:06 +1300 Hi all I'm an Oxalis lover, lol . Have not grow as many as Ron. My collection is only about 100 Species. As here in New Zealand we cant get them into the country. But Ron's list is pretty well what I would say were my Favorites as well. I do love the O. purpurea forms, I have about 6 forms of this. And thanks to Christiaan for all off his new photos, so we have some thing to sit and dream of, maybe having them in our collections one day. Kiyel Boland In Sunny Napier. http://public.fotki.com/savagegardenz From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Nov 8 12:47:52 2008 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Photos in The Bulb Garden Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 09:33:26 -0800 Thanks to Harold Koopowitz for the correction on identification of fall-flowering Narcissus species. I see I've been perpetuating an error, and will examine the plants I'm growing here and relabel as appropriate. As I recall, all those I have grown from seed have orange coronas and non-inflated tubes. In answer to his question, yes, Galanthus peshmenii is autumn-flowering. Also, everywhere I saw it, it was growing in very sharply drained situations, even in the detritus on top of big boulders (the seeds must have been brought there by ants), and in shade. Here, it flowers somewhat later than G. reginae-olgae; that species I also saw growing in deep shade, but here in Oregon it does fine in sun. Jane McGary Thank you for the correction onAt 04:54 PM 11/7/2008, you wrote: >Hi Jane: > >I enjoyed your article in this issue of the bulb garden. We went to >Crete at about the same time a few years ago. It was great fun. I >have a question and a comment. Is Galanthus peshmenii autumn flowering? > >Narcissus serotinus has been confused for centuries. The true N. >serotinus is a smaller flower and has a lemon yellow corona with an >inflated floral tube. Your flower with its orange corona is actually >N. miniatus, the allopolyploid natural hybrid between N. serotinus >and N. elegans. This has been confirmed by recent DNA analysis. All >of the floras of the Mediterranean are wrong about the identity. This >is an ancient hybrid, today the true N. serotinus is confined to >Morocco, southern Portugal and a few sites in western Spain while the >hybrid covers most of the Mediterranean. From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Nov 8 15:06:08 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Oxalis recommendations? Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 13:31:55 -0500 Dear Friends, Many thanks for all the recommendations. I will have to study these more. I've checked out some pix on the wiki. Both Oxalis gracilis and Oxalis inaequalis sound kinda like 'my kind of flower' although O purpurea sounds easy and with a wide range of variety. Guess I'll have to keep my eyes open for BX offerings. O. versicolor is just covered in blooms now. My only deliberate species. Thanks for all the input. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From tom@evolution-plants.com Sat Nov 8 13:45:48 2008 Message-Id: <97F80BB7-A4AF-4A5E-BD0E-8FF47B0A609F@evolution-plants.com> From: Tom Mitchell Subject: Oxalis recommendations? Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 18:43:58 +0000 Christiaan, Kiyel and other Oxalis lovers, ...and for your next challenge, are there any non-weedy Oxalis species that you think might do outdoors in the wet, mild west of England. Like Jim W, I've spent so much time pulling Oxalis out of pots in which they don't belong that the concept of actually planting one deliberately seem quite perverse. I'm always up for something perverse, however, so please recommend. Tom From msittner@mcn.org Sat Nov 8 16:27:52 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20081108124135.030153a0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Oxalis recommendations? Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 13:27:02 -0800 I too am an Oxalis fan and every year give offsets to the BX. I'm just passing on the generosity of Mike Mace who shared many offsets in the beginning from his IBS Michael Vassar collection. I still remember him describing his delight when his wife gave him the collection as a present and how he stayed up late planting them since they were already growing. A lot of Oxalis enthusiasts are very generous with their extras. Bill Baird, Uli, and Ron Vanderhoff have all shared with me too. And Diana at Telos sells a lot of wonderful species so it isn't hard to get started (at least in the US) and much too easy to become addicted/passionate. I've found the winter rainfall species from South Africa do best for me if I start watering them in August which is earlier than I start watering most of my winter growing bulbs. This means that the early blooming species can start flowering in September and put on a dazzling display of color during the often sunny days we have in fall. Besides the bright colorful flowers and the long blooming season, I also love the variety in the leaves. Oxalis pes-caprae is the one to watch where I live where it has naturalized and taken over in many areas of coastal California. Oxalis purpurea is likely to spread and be hard to eradicate too for me if planted in the ground. It also doesn't bloom for me in the shade which a lot of my property is so I regret the few experiments where I tried it in the ground, beautiful though it may be. However, if you have a place where you don't care if it takes over, it is carefree and blooms for a very long time. I've tried a few Oxalis in the ground like obtusa and they have disappeared. I've grown others in pots in raised beds where I haven't repotted them and have had better luck with a few species like O. flava and O. luteola, but they don't bloom quite as long it seems as when they are repotted each year. At least that's my experience. Living in an area with a lot of winter rainfall and dark days, I expect my plants will never have the tight form that plants do in South Africa and southern California. I often grow a number of them in a cold frame where there is sometimes just enough extra warmth to have the flowers open in winter. Oxalis gracilis is not a strong bloomer for me and Oxalis inaequalis was an early casualty. I did see it bloom briefly one year and was surprised how huge the flower seemed in relation to the size of the plants. So neither would make my favorite list although I like the color of Oxalis gracilis. I think my ten would have to be influenced by which was blooming at the time so if you asked me at different times of the year I might give different answers. But I share some of the favorites that others have mentioned and it's difficult to choose since ones I don't have on this list I'm very fond of: Oxalis bowieii -- fall bloom, large bright pink flowers for a long time Oxalis convexula -- I like the succulent leaves of this species Oxalis elegans -- summer growing species from Ecuador from Uli, or at least that's what we think it is, long blooming in summer, could be hardy if you stored it appropriately since I just leave mine dormant in winter and don't start watering until spring Oxalis flava -- fall bloom, lots of variety in leaves and flower color, long bloom Oxalis hirta -- nice fall blooming plants although they need a deep pot Oxalis peridicaria (syn. O. lobata): I too love this one from South America with its bright yellow flowers Oxalis luteola: I have three forms of this one, one with spotted leaves that does not offset much. I love all three. Oxalis obtusa: Some years some of the forms I grow bloom for three or four months. Lots of great variety in these, but there is a pink one that appears in a lot of pots and I wonder if it seeds itself about Oxalis palmifrons: Grown for the leaves Oxalis versicolor: Another favorite in bud and flower Mary Sue From JmsJon664@aol.com Sat Nov 8 17:32:27 2008 Message-Id: <8CB100900A27E60-944-D5C@WEBMAIL-DG07.sim.aol.com> From: jmsjon664@aol.com Subject: Oxalis Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 17:32:22 -0500 Over the years I've tried quite a few oxalis, mostly tender ones, and of course others have tried me, severely. As with all my greenhouse plants, my prime criterion is fall or winter bloom. (Hint: When descriptions are given, bloom time is always appreciated). Species worth mentioning: O. adenophylla. So it's not winter-blooming! For me it's hardly blooming at all, though it survives in however fitful a way. I wish someone else had shared the secret of success. O. brasiliensis. Nice big rose flowers in March; attractive leaves; slow-growing. Quite frost-hardy. O. hirta 'Gothenberg'. Best in a hanging pot and then superb. Blooming now. I'm trying it in a colder environment, down to 15F. Dare I hope? O. lobata. One I've had for ages; this is a year in which it's blessing me after quite a time of sulking. Lots of yellow flowers in fall. O. melanosticta 'Ken Aslet'. Wonderful leaves; no flowers yet after 2 years. O. obtusa. I managed to struggle with this! - until PBS'ers set me straight. That is to say, this summer it came through just fine. Winter bloom. O. pedunculata. A wacky brassy-yellow flowered succulent species, blooming in January. Not really suited to my GH so out it went. O. rubra; O. articulata ssp rubra f. crassipes; whatever. Clouds of soft pink flowers are borne all summer and on into the fall. Hardy here pressed up against the south-facing foundation. Absolutely non-seeding; easily divided. Put this with Corydalis lutea and you have a good 3 months of pink and yellow. O. triangularis. I'll mention this because it's there and looks like it will always be there. I'm not as enthusiastic about the brick-red leaves as I feel I should be. White flowers summer to autumn. O. versicolor. I enthusiastically second all that's already been said. Winter bloom. O. violacea. Non-bulbous no doubt, but native, attractive enough, and utterly non-threatening. Violet flowers in June. Jim Jones Lexington, MA From dells@voicenet.com Mon Nov 10 07:12:27 2008 Message-Id: <20081110121226.247004C014@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 191 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 07:12:09 -0500 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 191" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Bob Werra: SEED: 1. Hesperantha vaginata 2. Romulea eximia 3. Romulea monadelpha 4. Romulea grandiscapa 5. Gladiolus watsoniae 6. Gladiolus priori 7. Gladiolus venustus 8. Daubenya aurea var. aurea 9. Moraea tulbaghensis 10. Moraea bellendinii 11. Moraea vegeta, 10 cm tan/yellow 12. Moraea bipartita 13. Moraea ciliata, 15 cm blue/yellow 14. Moraea loubseri 15. Moraea gawleri 16. Moraea tripetala 17. Moraea thomasiae 18. Moraea tricuspidata 19. Cormlets of Moraea tricolor From Jerry Flintoff: SEED: 20. Paeonia obovata 21. Gloadiolus flanaganii 22. Crocus gargaricus ssp. herbertii 23. Calochortus syntropus 24. Gymnospermium alberti, orange form 25. Crocosmia paniculata From Nhu Nugyen: SEED: 26. Allium haematochiton (few) - A medium sized Californian native. Flowers are white. Bulbs are blood red. See http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/AmericanAlliumsTwo#haema tochiton 27. Triteleia laxa - This is a form from central California, near Mt. Hamilton. The petals don't open all the way, but pretty still planted en masse. 27. Pasithea caerulea (few) 28. Allium christophii 29. Rhodophiala advena - this is a form with an almost solid peach-colored petals. The inner parts of each petals has a lime-green stripe. Thank you, Bob, Jerry, and Nhu !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Nov 10 10:01:54 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Pacific BX 191 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:03:30 -0500 >Dear Dell, I'll try again. Missed the last one. >27. Pasithea caerulea (few) Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From HHeaven77@aol.com Mon Nov 10 09:52:37 2008 Message-Id: <8CB115B1328719C-3C4-15DE@WEBMAIL-MZ08.sysops.aol.com> From: hheaven77@aol.com Subject: Pacific BX 191 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:52:23 -0500 Hi Dell, My requests for BX 191 are: 5. Gladiolus watsoniae 6. Gladiolus priori 7. Gladiolus venustus 8. Daubenya aurea var. aurea 19. Cormlets of Moraea tricolor Thank you, Celeste Gornick -----Original Message----- From: Dell Sherk To: 'Adam Fikso' ; 'c' ; DavBouch5@aol.com; Douglas Westfall ; General PBS forum ; John Lonsdale ; 'Macfarlane' ; 'Mark' ; 'Mark Wilcox' ; Pat Colville ; The Masterson Family Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 5:12 am Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 191 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 191" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Bob Werra: SEED: 1. Hesperantha vaginata 2. Romulea eximia 3. Romulea monadelpha 4. Romulea grandiscapa 5. Gladiolus watsoniae 6. Gladiolus priori 7. Gladiolus venustus 8. Daubenya aurea var. aurea 9. Moraea tulbaghensis 10. Moraea bellendinii 11. Moraea vegeta, 10 cm tan/yellow 12. Moraea bipartita 13. Moraea ciliata, 15 cm blue/yellow 14. Moraea loubseri 15. Moraea gawleri 16. Moraea tripetala 17. Moraea thomasiae 18. Moraea tricuspidata 19. Cormlets of Moraea tricolor From Jerry Flintoff: SEED: 20. Paeonia obovata 21. Gloadiolus flanaganii 22. Crocus gargaricus ssp. herbertii 23. Calochortus syntropus 24. Gymnospermium alberti, orange form 25. Crocosmia paniculata From Nhu Nugyen: SEED: 26. Allium haematochiton (few) - A medium sized Californian native. Flowers are white. Bulbs are blood red. See http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/AmericanAlliumsTwo#haema tochiton 27. Triteleia laxa - This is a form from central California, near Mt. Hamilton. The petals don't open all the way, but pretty still planted en masse. 27. Pasithea caerulea (few) 28. Allium christophii 29. Rhodophiala advena - this is a form with an almost solid peach-colored petals. The inner parts of each petals has a lime-green stripe. Thank you, Bob, Jerry, and Nhu !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From msittner@mcn.org Mon Nov 10 11:42:37 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20081110074221.03595d70@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Hesperantha Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 08:42:14 -0800 Hi, I've been working on upgrading the wiki Hesperantha pages for a number of weeks and having finally finished them. Hesperantha is a genus in the Iridaceae family from southern and tropical Africa. This genus is closely related to Geissorhiza and sometimes the species are difficult to distinguish. Most species of Geissorhiza have a style that divides above the anthers and in Hesperantha the style divides at the mouth of the tube. Hesperantha species grow in summer rainfall areas and winter rainfall areas in a variety of habitats, at low elevations and high. Flowers are generally not open very long during the day. Some of them open in the morning and close early to late afternoon. Others open early to late afternoon and close late afternoon to evening. Some open at dusk and stay open all night. Those are usually fragrant and pollinated by moths. The same species may have flowers that open during the day however and are not fragrant and they are generally pollinated by bees. Other species with long tubes are pollinated by long probiscid flies. All of the species but one grow from corms. One is rhizomatous and used to have its own genus, Schizostylis. This species, Hesperantha coccinea, grows in very wet areas and the red form of it is pollinated by butterflies. There is very little difference in the flower structure of many of the species and looking at the pictures many of them are very difficult to tell apart. There are size differences and corm differences and differences in when they bloom (fall, winter, spring, summer) and habitat differences however. One that is different and very beautiful is Hesperantha vaginata. It is yellow, usually with dark tips. It opens early afternoon on warm days in late winter, early spring and closes a few hours later. It is pollinated by beetles. We understood that it is endangered and only grows in the Nieuwoudtville reserve, but in 2006 when we visited in South Africa we found it growing in mass on a farm. You could pay to drive through the farm and there were a lot of flowers in bloom so it was well worth the money and the time. So if you look at the Hesperantha pages, I hope you won't give up before you see those habitat pictures. Cameron McMaster has photographed many of the summer rainfall species and in fact discovered one of them, Hesperantha stenosiphon, a long tubed pink species with dark anthers. Photos were added from him, my husband and me, Alan Horstmann, and Rod Saunders. Mary Wise from Australia also gave me permission to add a photo of hers of Hesperanth luticola. This one grows in the Roggeveld and after seeing a picture of it in one of Rod's slide shows, I really wanted to grow it, but have not had any luck. Mary reported that she lost hers as well. As I was writing this note I decided to link to an article Cameron wrote in the IBSA bulletin about a succession of blooms of this genus in the Eastern Cape. When I was searching for the link I found the Hesperantha revision which I would have loved to have had when I started the major project. I tried to find it online when I first started, but couldn't. Sigh. Thanks to Mobot for making two informative articles on this genus (also one on pollination) available to the public online. I added the links for all three of these to the Hesperantha page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Hesperantha I hope those of you who do not know this genus will enjoy learning about it and everyone will enjoy looking at the pictures. Many of them are habitat pictures. The fragrant Hesperantha cucullata form (I grow one form that opens earlier and is not fragrant) that blooms during the night can fill your house with fragrance if you bring it inside and during the night the flower goes through all kinds of movements to make itself available to the pollinators. Hesperatha latifolia is one I'm especially fond of since it is a bit longer blooming and has bright pink flowers in winter. It is native to Namaqualand, but still grows well in my wet Northern California garden. Mary Sue From dells@voicenet.com Mon Nov 10 15:05:25 2008 Message-Id: <20081110200518.84A4B4C011@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 191 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:05:11 -0500 I have received your order. Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of hheaven77@aol.com Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:52 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 191 Hi Dell, My requests for BX 191 are: 5. Gladiolus watsoniae 6. Gladiolus priori 7. Gladiolus venustus 8. Daubenya aurea var. aurea 19. Cormlets of Moraea tricolor Thank you, Celeste Gornick -----Original Message----- From: Dell Sherk To: 'Adam Fikso' ; 'c' ; DavBouch5@aol.com; Douglas Westfall ; General PBS forum ; John Lonsdale ; 'Macfarlane' ; 'Mark' ; 'Mark Wilcox' ; Pat Colville ; The Masterson Family Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 5:12 am Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 191 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 191" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Bob Werra: SEED: 1. Hesperantha vaginata 2. Romulea eximia 3. Romulea monadelpha 4. Romulea grandiscapa 5. Gladiolus watsoniae 6. Gladiolus priori 7. Gladiolus venustus 8. Daubenya aurea var. aurea 9. Moraea tulbaghensis 10. Moraea bellendinii 11. Moraea vegeta, 10 cm tan/yellow 12. Moraea bipartita 13. Moraea ciliata, 15 cm blue/yellow 14. Moraea loubseri 15. Moraea gawleri 16. Moraea tripetala 17. Moraea thomasiae 18. Moraea tricuspidata 19. Cormlets of Moraea tricolor From Jerry Flintoff: SEED: 20. Paeonia obovata 21. Gloadiolus flanaganii 22. Crocus gargaricus ssp. herbertii 23. Calochortus syntropus 24. Gymnospermium alberti, orange form 25. Crocosmia paniculata From Nhu Nugyen: SEED: 26. Allium haematochiton (few) - A medium sized Californian native. Flowers are white. Bulbs are blood red. See http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/AmericanAlliumsTwo#haema tochiton 27. Triteleia laxa - This is a form from central California, near Mt. Hamilton. The petals don't open all the way, but pretty still planted en masse. 27. Pasithea caerulea (few) 28. Allium christophii 29. Rhodophiala advena - this is a form with an almost solid peach-colored petals. The inner parts of each petals has a lime-green stripe. Thank you, Bob, Jerry, and Nhu !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From maxwithers@gmail.com Mon Nov 10 16:00:59 2008 Message-Id: <4918A105.9030206@gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: Cyrtanthus elatus x montanus Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 13:00:53 -0800 Way back on 12/17/2004, Jim Shields wrote: > The bulbs I have of Cyrtanthus [montanus X elatus] have almost always > been > infertile too. I got luck one single time, pollinating one bulb's > flowers > onto the flowers of another of the bulbs that was in bloom at the same > time > and the reverse. One of the two plants set two pods, and I got maybe 6 > seeds. The last time I checked, the pot of those seedlings had 4 nice > bulbs in it, ca. 1 inch in diameter. I'm very curious to see what their > eventual flowers will look like, and to see if these F2 plants are more > fertile than their parents. In a few more years..... I got excellent seed production this year from some C. elatus x montanus purchased from Telos, and I'm wondering what these F2 plants will look like. Jim, Anyone? While we're on the topic, I suppose I should hold off on sowing these until March/April? Best, Max Withers Oakland From leo@possi.org Mon Nov 10 16:56:51 2008 Message-Id: From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Oxalis recommendations? Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 13:56:49 -0800 (PST) The main thing to remember with the winter-growers is they will go dormant, probably until next growing season, if you let them dry out once. Shallow pots are very risky unless you can look at your plants every day. Oxalis tubers are annual. After they sprout and produce plants it will be a while until new tubers form. If you forget to water them and the tops die before the new tubers form they're dead for good. Many of the species have tubers that are tiny and brown. I use a mix of perlite and light-colored sand which makes it easier to see the tubers. One of the best plant propagators in the Central Arizona Cactus and Succulent Society is Joan Skirvin, who told me many Oxalis root from cuttings, either stuck in the soil or layered. I've done it with O. fabaefolia, which is one that tends to send our runners. One winter Joan took cuttings from some of my plants and she said many rooted. I highly recommend the various O. obtusa color forms. They don't make bulblets, don't reseed, are tough, and bloom a lot. If you can provide a lot of sun, try O. purpurea garnet. I would grow it even without the big pink flowers. In full sun the leaves are glowing dark red, one of the best reds I've seen in any plant leaf - rivaling or exceeding red Coleus. But if you can't give it full sun it will be a red / green and not as spectacular. O. glabra makes a great hanging basket; another way to maximize your greenhouse space. The stems are long and dangly, and it blooms a lot. Beyond those it would depend on personal taste; there are so many different leaf forms, vegetative colors, etc. I'm lucky in that I can grow them outside all winter protected only from the birds. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Mon Nov 10 18:55:10 2008 Message-Id: <17111687.1226361309738.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: Cyrtanthus elatus x montanus Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:55:09 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >While we're on the topic, I suppose I should hold off on sowing these >until March/April? > >Best, >Max Withers Max: Cyrtanthus seed germinates better when sown fresh and not allowed to dessicate. Mark Mazer Hertford, NC USA Zone 7b-8 From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Mon Nov 10 19:20:44 2008 Message-Id: <20429179.1226362843956.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: Hesperantha luticola Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:20:43 -0500 (GMT-05:00) photo >of hers of Hesperanth luticola. This one grows in the Roggeveld and after >seeing a picture of it in one of Rod's slide shows, I really wanted to grow >it, but have not had any luck. Mary reported that she lost hers as well. Hi Mary Sue: Harvested a few seed in June, several have germinated. I can tag the pot of mature corms (Silverhill/2003), and should they produce, send you seed H. luticola gets chlorotic about this time of year so I switch to a liquid feed suitable for acid growing plants and dose with chelated iron. I also use a liquid seaweed feed every month and a half, or so. Thanks for the Hesperantha pages. Best, Mark From dkramb@badbear.com Mon Nov 10 23:39:33 2008 Message-Id: <49190C86.7010604@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Iris seeds Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:39:34 -0500 Each year SIGNA, the Species Iris Group of North America, has a seed exchange for its members only. The surplus seeds from the latest exchange are now available on-line to non-members. Some selections might be of interested to PBS members... such as Iris odaesanensis, I. milesii, I. douglasiana, etc. For more information, please visit http://www.signa.org/index.pl?OrderingSeeds Thanks, Dennis in Cincinnati, (the SIGNA webmaster) From dejager@bulbargence.com Tue Nov 11 04:17:53 2008 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Oxalis recommendations? Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:17:39 +0100 Dear all, A bit late to join this discussion. But I am also convinced defender of the genus in this part o the world. I recommend without hesitation: Species with fairly large bulbs (are "controllable" and can let "loose" in the garden): O karooica, flava, polyphylla, palmifrons, hirta (esp form Gothemborg), bowiei, the south american species O articulata and O lobata (a very succesful gift of Andrew Wilson years ago) Small bulbs (only recommended for growing in pots, a cushion plants): O versicolor, massonorum, ambigua, obtusa (to be watched as this species begins to be invasive here) Species obsolutely to be avoided: O pescaprea (double form is less vigorous), caprina and others Hope that is of help to promote the genus -- Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence South of France (zone 9 (olive trees) emailto: dejager@bulbargence.com Site www.bulbargence.com Le 10/11/08 22:56, « Leo A. Martin » a écrit : there are so many different leaf forms, vegetative colors, etc. From dells@voicenet.com Tue Nov 11 07:09:31 2008 Message-Id: <20081111120930.B1BDB4C016@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 191 CLOSED Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 07:09:04 -0500 Enormous response. Packages should go out after the weekend. Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Nov 11 10:08:50 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Sisyrinchium Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:10:27 -0500 Dear Friends, The newest bulletin of the American Iris Society arrived yesterday. There's a good article on the 'The Other Irids, Part II' dedicated to the genus Sisyrinchium. The authors, Edmund and Rita Heaton, hold the National Collection in the UK. A few native 'weedy' species can be grown here, but they claim the hardiest is S. palmifolium, a species I never heard of before. Can anyone comment on this species? I see that Plant Delights sells it and only gives hardiness to Zone 7. Anyone grow it in colder climates? Anyone have seed to share? I have to state that all other yellow flowered Sisyrinchium are not hardy here except for the borderline S. macrocarpum. Currently deceased. Thanks for info. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From kevin_ink@mac.com Tue Nov 11 10:44:18 2008 Message-Id: From: kevin inkawhich Subject: N. cantabricus flos. Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 07:44:09 -0800 GOOD MORNING, I LIVE IN LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA AND HAVE BEEN GROWING N. CANTABRICUS FLOS., IN POTS, FOR 3 YEARS. I AM GETTING A LOT OF FOLIAGE, BUT VERY LITTLE FLOWER. THE LEAVES START TO APPEAR IN OCTOBER. I REST THEM OUTDOORS, IN THE SHADE, WITH VERY LITTLE WATER THRU THE SUMMER. I'M HOPING THAT BECAUSE THEY ARE MEDITERRANEAN, THEY WILL GROW IN MY AREA. IS THERE ANYONE WHO COULD ON BEING MORE SUCCESSFUL? THANK YOU. KEVIN INK From paph2@earthlink.net Tue Nov 11 11:28:30 2008 Message-Id: From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: N. cantabricus flos. Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 08:28:26 -0800 Hi Kevin: I live in Orange County and grow lots of narcissus of all types. You should not have any trouble flowering your cantabricus. When did you repot them last? Maybe they are a little starved. It is still a little early for them to flower in our area. Harold At 07:44 AM 11/11/2008, kevin inkawhich wrote: >GOOD MORNING, > >I LIVE IN LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA AND HAVE BEEN GROWING N. CANTABRICUS >FLOS., IN POTS, FOR 3 YEARS. >I AM GETTING A LOT OF FOLIAGE, BUT VERY LITTLE FLOWER. >THE LEAVES START TO APPEAR IN OCTOBER. >I REST THEM OUTDOORS, IN THE SHADE, WITH VERY LITTLE WATER THRU THE >SUMMER. > >I'M HOPING THAT BECAUSE THEY ARE MEDITERRANEAN, THEY WILL GROW IN MY >AREA. >IS THERE ANYONE WHO COULD ON BEING MORE SUCCESSFUL? > >THANK YOU. > >KEVIN INK >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kevin_ink@mac.com Tue Nov 11 11:54:33 2008 Message-Id: <9FCC226B-4DD4-4004-8203-494D6AF17179@mac.com> From: kevin inkawhich Subject: N. cantabricus flos. Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 08:54:25 -0800 THANK YOU FOR THE INFO HAROLD. WHERE ARE YOU IN ORANGE COUNTY...LOWER ELEVATIONS, HILLS? I WOULD LIKE TO PLANT THIS BULB OUT IN IRVINE. THE AREA WOULD BE IRRIGATED A BIT IN THE SUMMER, BUT NEVER WET, JUST ENOUGH TOO SUPPORT THE GRASSES AND LAVENDERS, ETC. DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD DO ALRIGHT IF TREATED THIS WAY, OR DO THEY REALLY NEED TO BAKE AND DRY IN THE SUMMER MONTHS? DO YOU GROW YOURS IN CONTAINERS OR IN BEDS? I PLANTED THEM IN AZALIA POTS WITH POTTING SOIL, PUMICE, BULB BOOSTER AND WORM CASTINGS. DURING THE GROWING SEASON, I GIVE THEM SOME LIQUID FERTILIZER. I WONDERING IF I AM PLANTING THEM TOO SHALLOWLY. DO YOU GROW N. RUPICOLA SSP. WATIERI? REGARDS, KEVIN INK On Nov 11, 2008, at 8:28 AM, Harold Koopowitz wrote: > Hi Kevin: > > I live in Orange County and grow lots of narcissus of all types. You > should not have any trouble flowering your cantabricus. When did you > repot them last? Maybe they are a little starved. It is still a > little early for them to flower in our area. > Harold > > At 07:44 AM 11/11/2008, kevin inkawhich wrote: >> GOOD MORNING, >> >> I LIVE IN LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA AND HAVE BEEN GROWING N. CANTABRICUS >> FLOS., IN POTS, FOR 3 YEARS. >> I AM GETTING A LOT OF FOLIAGE, BUT VERY LITTLE FLOWER. >> THE LEAVES START TO APPEAR IN OCTOBER. >> I REST THEM OUTDOORS, IN THE SHADE, WITH VERY LITTLE WATER THRU THE >> SUMMER. >> >> I'M HOPING THAT BECAUSE THEY ARE MEDITERRANEAN, THEY WILL GROW IN MY >> AREA. >> IS THERE ANYONE WHO COULD ON BEING MORE SUCCESSFUL? >> >> THANK YOU. >> >> KEVIN INK >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From msittner@mcn.org Tue Nov 11 15:11:24 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20081111120214.03578df0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: N. cantabricus flos. Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 12:10:44 -0800 Dear Kevin, Reporting from coastal Northern California which is different from Southern California of course as we get more rainfall and probably cooler temperatures, but this species is super easy for me in containers kept dry, but moved to the shade in summer. No baking here. Many pots have been blooming for awhile and others are starting into bloom. Mine multiply rapidly in the pots, almost double every year so I repot them frequently and always have pots in bloom to give to friends every year. Perhaps they need to be planted deeper or divided or planted in a deeper container? I obtained mine originally from Bill Dijk in New Zealand and they needed a year or two to change hemispheres, but since then have bloomed reliably and allowed me to share with many others. It's great fun to be able to give people a blooming Narcissus at this time of the year as it is so unexpected. Mary Sue From clayton3120@cablespeed.com Tue Nov 11 15:26:31 2008 Message-Id: From: Subject: N. cantabricus flos. Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:26:21 -0500 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Nov 11 16:56:54 2008 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: N. cantabricus flos. Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:56:36 -0800 Kevin asked about nonflowering Narcissus cantabricus. Perhaps they need more fertilizer, or a different kind. A dry summer rest is appropriate for this species, but they should not become desiccated, and in Los Angeles that might be happening even if the pots are in the shade. In nature they tend to grow in rocky ground where the bulbs are protected from excessive drying. Kevin, try covering your pots with rounds of styrofoam, that might help. Also, how often do you repot them? They should be lifted at least every second year and put in fresh gritty soil. It's normal for the leaves to emerge in late fall. Depending on the subspecies, flowers will appear any time from November to February. My first one opened a couple of days ago. I grow them in a plunge frame in full sun, but it is much cooler here in summer than in southern California. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From kevin_ink@mac.com Tue Nov 11 17:35:02 2008 Message-Id: <8C7154A3-AFF0-4745-8A07-21E8449C0069@mac.com> From: kevin inkawhich Subject: N. cantabricus flos. Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:34:59 -0800 THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE INFORMATION MARY SUE. MAYBE I DO NEED TO PLANT THEM MORE DEEPLY. I KNOW IN THE GARDEN, MOST NARC. THAT ARE PLANTED SHALLOWLY HAVE A TENDENCY TO MULTIPLY MORE THAN BLOOM. MINE ARE UP AND MULTIPLYING VERY WELL, JUST NO BLOOMS. DO YOURS GET REALLY "GRASSY" BEFORE THE BUDS APPEAR? KEVIN On Nov 11, 2008, at 12:10 PM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Dear Kevin, > > Reporting from coastal Northern California which is different from > Southern > California of course as we get more rainfall and probably cooler > temperatures, but this species is super easy for me in containers > kept dry, > but moved to the shade in summer. No baking here. Many pots have been > blooming for awhile and others are starting into bloom. Mine multiply > rapidly in the pots, almost double every year so I repot them > frequently > and always have pots in bloom to give to friends every year. Perhaps > they > need to be planted deeper or divided or planted in a deeper container? > > I obtained mine originally from Bill Dijk in New Zealand and they > needed a > year or two to change hemispheres, but since then have bloomed > reliably and > allowed me to share with many others. It's great fun to be able to > give > people a blooming Narcissus at this time of the year as it is so > unexpected. > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kevin_ink@mac.com Tue Nov 11 17:46:44 2008 Message-Id: From: kevin inkawhich Subject: N. cantabricus flos. Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:46:41 -0800 WOW, YOU PEOPLE ARE SO KIND WITH ALL THE INFO I DON'T LET THEM DRY OUT TOO MUCH EITHER. THEY DO GET A BIT OF DRIP IN THE SUMMER BECAUSE THEY ARE UNDER PLANT BENCHES. BUT IT IS GOOD TO HEAR FROM YOU BECAUSE I WOULD LIKE TO PLANT THEM OUT IN THE GARDEN IN L.A. COUNTY WHERE THEY WILL BE IRRIGATED. IT WILL NOT BE SOAKING BECAUSE I AM GROWING GRASSES AND LAVENDERS, ETC. HOPEFULLY THIS WILL SATISFY EVERY PLANTS REQUIREMENTS. I GUESS NOW IT IS JUST TIME TO GIVE IT A TRY... THANK YOU JANE. On Nov 11, 2008, at 1:56 PM, Jane McGary wrote: > Kevin asked about nonflowering Narcissus cantabricus. > > Perhaps they need more fertilizer, or a different kind. A dry summer > rest is appropriate for this species, but they should not become > desiccated, and in Los Angeles that might be happening even if the > pots are in the shade. In nature they tend to grow in rocky ground > where the bulbs are protected from excessive drying. Kevin, try > covering your pots with rounds of styrofoam, that might help. Also, > how often do you repot them? They should be lifted at least every > second year and put in fresh gritty soil. > > It's normal for the leaves to emerge in late fall. Depending on the > subspecies, flowers will appear any time from November to February. > My first one opened a couple of days ago. I grow them in a plunge > frame in full sun, but it is much cooler here in summer than in > southern California. > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon, USA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From haweha@hotmail.com Tue Nov 11 18:35:53 2008 Message-Id: From: Hans-Werner Hammen Subject: Cyrtanthus elatus x montanus Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 23:35:42 +0000 Hi Max; I herewith confirm: although it is not lethal for them seeds to dry out for a "certain time" I recommend to sow these and, seeds of all those amaryllids with "thin, dark, papery-foiled seeds" as fresh as possible. They will germinate faster and with a higher yield. If you have really lots of seeds then you take advantage by sowing these ALL, densely, and later select those seedlings (after approx 1/2 y) for replanting which begin to reveal that they are the most vigorous and, particularly do produce the most leaves, because later, the number of scapes per season will depend on this property. I noticed that the vigorousity - that is the power of an individual seedling to stand the pressure in a crowded community or even suppress the growth of its neighbours by growing invasively - is sometimes amazingly conspicuous. As to sowing I like to refer to my earlier statement in http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2005-November/023336.html I wish you good success and nice flowers from your crossbreeding project! Hans-Werner > Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:55:09 -0500> From: markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: Re: [pbs] Cyrtanthus elatus x montanus> > >While we're on the topic, I suppose I should hold off on sowing these > >until March/April?> >> >Best,> >Max Withers> > > Max:> > Cyrtanthus seed germinates better when sown fresh and not allowed to dessicate.> > Mark Mazer> Hertford, NC USA> Zone 7b-8> _______________________________________________> pbs mailing list> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _________________________________________________________________ MSN Mobile: Die neuesten Infos aus der Welt der Stars und Sternchen zum Mitnehmen! http://redirect.gimas.net/?n=M0811xMobileDE From tony@plantdelights.com Tue Nov 11 20:44:46 2008 Message-Id: <491A350C.6020106@plantdelights.com> From: Tony Avent Subject: Sisyrinchium Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:44:44 -0500 Jim: I can't speak to the hardiness of Sisyrinchium palmifolium, but it is one fine garden plant...we have grown it since 2000. The bright yellow flowers are huge and unlike other species we have grown, they open in the late afternoon. S. palmifolium is completely evergreen, so I'd have a hard time believing it to be as hardy as something like S. idahoense. The other superb, but little known plant is Sisyrinchium 'Suwanee', a plant that was wild collected in the Florida panhandle, and doesn't behave like any native species from that region and doesn't reseed around the garden. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent James Waddick wrote: > Dear Friends, > The newest bulletin of the American Iris Society arrived > yesterday. There's a good article on the 'The Other Irids, Part II' > dedicated to the genus Sisyrinchium. The authors, Edmund and Rita > Heaton, hold the National Collection in the UK. A few native 'weedy' > species can be grown here, but they claim the hardiest is S. > palmifolium, a species I never heard of before. > > Can anyone comment on this species? > > I see that Plant Delights sells it and only gives hardiness to Zone 7. > > Anyone grow it in colder climates? > > Anyone have seed to share? > > I have to state that all other yellow flowered Sisyrinchium > are not hardy here except for the borderline S. macrocarpum. > Currently deceased. > > Thanks for info. Jim W. > From ang.por@alice.it Wed Nov 12 03:51:21 2008 Message-Id: From: Subject: Cyrtanthus hybrids fertility Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:48:31 +0100 Instead I have never got any seeds on Cyrtanthus elatus x sanguineus, both selfed ora backcrossed with C. elatus pollen. On C. elatus crossed with the hybrid seems to work, but I am not sure I actually prevent any self pollination Angelo Porcelli Apulia - south of Italy Alice Messenger ;-) chatti anche con gli amici di Windows Live Messenger e tutti i telefonini TIM! From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed Nov 12 10:41:41 2008 Message-Id: <000501c944dd$998aee50$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Oxalis recommendations? Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:44:48 -0500 Late October and most of November are the busiest time of the gardening year for me, and as a result I have not had the time to respond to several of the interesting threads now running. The Oxalis thread – and the growing number of Oxalis images on the wiki – are a real pleasure. Thanks so much to everyone taking the time to do this. I grow two horticultural groups of Oxalis here: the winter dormant sorts (these are mostly from Mexico I gather) and a pathetic two southern African winter growing sorts, O. purpurea ‘Garnet’ and O. ‘Ken Aslet’. These two winter growing forms grow in the ground in a protected cold frame and have been outside year ‘round for several years. Oxalis purpurea ‘Garnet’ always begins growth with green foliage here; the intense color does not come until later. It blooms here, but not freely. ‘Ken Aslet’ has never bloomed here. Out in the garden there is also O. articulata in white-flowered and pink-flowered forms. Last summer this was blooming when I brought home pots of an unnamed Sisyrinchium: I put them together for a photo and they harmonize nicely. You can see them here: http://www.jimmckenney.com/oxalis_crassipes_and_sisyrinchiu.htm I have several of the presumably Mexican summer growing Oxalis; these do very well here as pot plants and escapees sometimes survive the winter in the ground. Earlier this week I began to dig these Mexican sorts for storage indoors during the winter. I’ve been meaning to post an image of the summer storage roots these have, but these roots don’t last long and in the past they have been gone by the time I got around to trying to photograph them. This year I got them, so I’ve added an image of the odd icicle-radish-like structures which form beneath the bulb clusters of Oxalis lasiandra. These are also seen in O. tetraphylla/deppei. The first time I saw these I assumed that they were storage roots which would persist during dormancy. But in fact a few days after the bulbs are dug they fall off or deliquesce. They are not firmly attached to the bulb clusters and are easily detached in rough digging. These bright white roots look very sapid to me: does anyone know if they are edible? Take a look here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MiscellaneousOxalis Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where Crocus hermoneus is blooming now. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Wed Nov 12 13:12:53 2008 Message-Id: <491B1CA6.7050703@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Photos in The Bulb Garden Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:12:54 -0800 Thanks to Jane and Harold for identifying the photos in Jane's article correctly. I try to catch typographical errors, but apologize for missing that one. I really appreciate Jane, Leo and Robin who wrote the articles in this issue, and all the authors who have volunteered or yielded to my coaxing in previous issues. PBS couldn't publish any periodical without these lovely folks! And while I am at it, I want to tell you that my co-editor, Jennifer Hildebrand is a worker of magic and deserves all of the credit for the new look of 'The Bulb Garden' . She takes the edited articles and performs wonders with the layout tasks. We did not put the membership directory together (I'm not sure how many fingers were in that), but I know Jen performed the final time-consuming edit. Last, but not least, thanks to Arnold for handling the printing and distribution of all of our publications. This is a tedious task requiring trips to the post office with boxes of packets. If you enjoyed this issue, please be sure to renew your membership so you don't miss the winter issue. The pages are filling up with more interesting articles for your pleasure. And if you have any concerns, preferences, suggestions, please do write me privately. Marguerite From cvschalkwyk@lantic.net Thu Nov 13 04:09:11 2008 Message-Id: <51DB6F74798445FDBE86AB044F045597@h4l> From: "Christiaan van Schalkwyk" Subject: Oxalis recommendations? Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:09:48 +0200 Hi Jim and others I always smile when I hear that someone grow "Ken Aslet", which is suppose to be a free flowering clone of O. melanosticta, because they all say it rarely flowers! Those thich fleshy roots are also found on many South african species. And the following comments might or might not be applicable to american species. Those roots are contractile roots, forming at the base of the bulb and by desicating and contracting they pull the new nutritive scales produced within the old bulb out of the old bulb, downwards, where a new bulb is formed. The old nutritive scales die off with the leaves at autumn, and at the new season the new bulb will sprout. These roots are eadible and very tasty, but do contain some Oxalic acid, if taken in too large quantities this could cause kidney stones. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McKenney" 'Ken Aslet' has never bloomed here. Earlier this week I began to dig these Mexican sorts for storage indoors during the winter. I've been meaning to post an image of the summer storage roots these have, but these roots don't last long and in the past they have been gone by the time I got around to trying to photograph them. This year I got them, so I've added an image of the odd icicle-radish-like structures which form beneath the bulb clusters of Oxalis lasiandra. These are also seen in O. tetraphylla/deppei. The first time I saw these I assumed that they were storage roots which would persist during dormancy. But in fact a few days after the bulbs are dug they fall off or deliquesce. They are not firmly attached to the bulb clusters and are easily detached in rough digging. These bright white roots look very sapid to me: does anyone know if they are edible? Take a look here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MiscellaneousOxalis Jim McKenney From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Nov 13 19:10:07 2008 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Oxalis recommendations? Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:54:06 -0800 I have grown Oxalis 'Ken Aslet' for many years in the bulb frame, where it does flower freely. I let it dry out quite a lot in summer, and it pops up in fall like most of the other bulbs. I also have it in the open garden but I think the buds are damaged by cold and rain there. Still, the foliage is decorative and it is not an invasive plant. Some years ago I bought different color forms of O. obtusa from Telos Rare Bulbs. Only one color survived, so it must be more cold-hardy than the others. It is a yellowish pink ("peach") and has infested the plunge medium in the bulb frame pretty widely. It also turns up in the open garden, where the weather keeps it severely checked -- it barely spreads there. Although it obviously has invasive potential were the climate here a bit warmer, it is so lovely with its tiny gray leaves and huge flowers that I enjoy it. It is too short to swamp nearby plants. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From msittner@mcn.org Fri Nov 14 23:23:22 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20081114200643.030185d0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Leo's Mystery Strumaria Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:22:51 -0800 Hi, I was going to move Leo's Strumaria pictures to the Strumaria page. I too have the book Diana referred to, Systematics of Hessea, Strumaria, and Carpolyza. I looked at the diagrams and read the text and it seems to me that the descriptions are backwards to what you would expect to fit the names of the two subspecies and opposite to what David Victor suggested. I'm really puzzled. In the book Snijman writes: Strumaria discifera subsp. discifera -- "Style smoothly bulbiform or irregularly thickened and longitudinally ridged in the proximal quarter." Strumaria discifera subsp. bulbifera -- "Style discoid proximally, with a prominent irregular rim on the disc distally, abruptly narrowed into a slender column above." The Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs: Strumaria discifera subsp. bulbifera -- "flowers with the stylar swelling topped by a frilly rim" Strumaria discifera subsp. discifera -- "flowers with the stylar swelling smooth above" What David said was: >I'm pretty sure that its Strumaria discifera subsp. discifera. This >subsp. has a frilly disc-like swelling at the base of the style, >whereas the other subsp. (bulbifera) has a bulbous shaped swelling. Can anyone help me figure this out? Could she have switched the descriptions in the first book which was repeated in the Color Encyclopedia since it copied from the monograph? Mary Sue From othonna@gmail.com Sat Nov 15 00:13:11 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260811142113i2b209d86h291a684da0634b95@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Leo's Mystery Strumaria Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 21:13:10 -0800 Mary Sue, The technical details of style + filaments in Hessea and Strumaria can be confusing, even with good technical jargon and illustrations. I have always been bewildered that Snijman or someone else never merged these two, along with Carpolyza, assuming they are a monophyletic lineage. It seems that the justification used for expanding Drimia or merging Ornithogalum with Albuca is comparable, especially when the character state of adnation of style and filaments seems quite artificial. None of which helps answer your question. Leaving floral details aside, I have grown ssp. bulbifera for some years and it is very distinct vegetatively since it offsets prolifically (every year each plant makes some new offsets). These plants have linear, ascending, softly hairy leaves. In contrast, the four different accessions (separate gatherings) of ssp. discifera I grow each has different leaf morphology/presentation, and at least one has leaves similar to ssp. bulbifera as described above but the plants are solitary. Offsetting in this genus in general is uncommon, and I would describe all four of these ssp. discifera as solitary bulbs. All have been under similar conditions for 5-10 years. Dylan Hannon Dylan Hannon Rare Bulbs On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 8:22 PM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Hi, > > I was going to move Leo's Strumaria pictures to the Strumaria page. I too > have the book Diana referred to, Systematics of Hessea, Strumaria, and > Carpolyza. > > I looked at the diagrams and read the text and it seems to me that the > descriptions are backwards to what you would expect to fit the names > of the two subspecies and opposite to what David Victor suggested. I'm > really puzzled. > > In the book Snijman writes: > Strumaria discifera subsp. discifera -- "Style smoothly bulbiform or > irregularly thickened and longitudinally ridged in the proximal quarter." > Strumaria discifera subsp. bulbifera -- "Style discoid proximally, with a > prominent irregular rim on the disc distally, abruptly narrowed into a > slender column above." > > The Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs: > Strumaria discifera subsp. bulbifera -- "flowers with the stylar swelling > topped by a frilly rim" > Strumaria discifera subsp. discifera -- "flowers with the stylar swelling > smooth above" > > What David said was: > >I'm pretty sure that its Strumaria discifera subsp. discifera. This > >subsp. has a frilly disc-like swelling at the base of the style, > >whereas the other subsp. (bulbifera) has a bulbous shaped swelling. > > Can anyone help me figure this out? Could she have switched the > descriptions in the first book which was repeated in the Color Encyclopedia > since it copied from the monograph? > > Mary Sue > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From kevin_ink@mac.com Sat Nov 15 16:22:17 2008 Message-Id: <9D7DD0AC-DEC3-41FD-93B1-C1E596F320DD@mac.com> From: kevin inkawhich Subject: N. cantabricus flos. Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 13:22:14 -0800 Does the foliage of you N. cantabricus come out long before the flowers? Thanks On Nov 11, 2008, at 1:56 PM, Jane McGary wrote: > Kevin asked about nonflowering Narcissus cantabricus. > > Perhaps they need more fertilizer, or a different kind. A dry summer > rest is appropriate for this species, but they should not become > desiccated, and in Los Angeles that might be happening even if the > pots are in the shade. In nature they tend to grow in rocky ground > where the bulbs are protected from excessive drying. Kevin, try > covering your pots with rounds of styrofoam, that might help. Also, > how often do you repot them? They should be lifted at least every > second year and put in fresh gritty soil. > > It's normal for the leaves to emerge in late fall. Depending on the > subspecies, flowers will appear any time from November to February. > My first one opened a couple of days ago. I grow them in a plunge > frame in full sun, but it is much cooler here in summer than in > southern California. > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon, USA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kevin_ink@mac.com Sat Nov 15 16:50:39 2008 Message-Id: <0287DDCE-54FD-4159-A860-F52BDD5C78EE@mac.com> From: kevin inkawhich Subject: N. cantabricus flos. Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 13:50:37 -0800 DEAR JANE, I SAW PHOTOGRAPHS OF YOUR N. RUPICOLA SSP.WATIERI I AM GROWING IT THIS YEAR. SHOULD I CHILL THE BULBS, AFTER POTTING, IN MY FRIDGE? OR DO THEY NOT REQUIRE A CHILL. THANKS, KEVIN On Nov 11, 2008, at 1:56 PM, Jane McGary wrote: > Kevin asked about nonflowering Narcissus cantabricus. > > Perhaps they need more fertilizer, or a different kind. A dry summer > rest is appropriate for this species, but they should not become > desiccated, and in Los Angeles that might be happening even if the > pots are in the shade. In nature they tend to grow in rocky ground > where the bulbs are protected from excessive drying. Kevin, try > covering your pots with rounds of styrofoam, that might help. Also, > how often do you repot them? They should be lifted at least every > second year and put in fresh gritty soil. > > It's normal for the leaves to emerge in late fall. Depending on the > subspecies, flowers will appear any time from November to February. > My first one opened a couple of days ago. I grow them in a plunge > frame in full sun, but it is much cooler here in summer than in > southern California. > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon, USA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Nov 15 18:01:50 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Oxalis recommendations? Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:59:25 -0600 Be afraid, be very afraid. I think I am very primed for the next PBX to include ANY Oxalis. My head is spinning with greed. I can feel my typing fingers twitching already ready to place a request. Now if am SURE that I NEED any I can get my hands on. I crave them. Oh dear. HAve pity. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Nov 15 21:44:27 2008 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: N. cantabricus flos. Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 18:25:56 -0800 Kevin asked, At 01:22 PM 11/15/2008, you wrote: >Does the foliage of you N. cantabricus come out long before the flowers? This species has a number of different subspecies (or varieties, or forms -- you'll have to ask Dr. Koopowitz about Narcissus taxonomy, a subject on which I resolutely refuse to risk opinions). In some cases the leaves are well developed before a bud emerges, and in others the leaves seem to be about half their ultimate length when the scape (flowering stem) is about half as long as the leaves. I noticed some like that in the bulb frame today. I feel that the different subspecies, or whatever they may be, are so mixed up in cultivation that it is unwise to apply names like "foliosus" and "monophyllus" to plants one has grown from seed of cultivated origin. In addition, N. cantabricus has been hybridized with N. romieuxii and there are some lovely intermediate forms. In flower here today are a N. cantabricus selection from Walter Blom, and seedings received as N. eugeniae, which I must look up to see what the "correct" (i.e., British taxonomists') name is. The latter are pale yellow and up-facing. Kevin also asked whether he should chill N. rupicola ssp. watieri bulbs. I don't know, because they do get chilled here naturally. Ask Harold. For those unfamiliar with it, this is a very lovely pure white subspecies, from North Africa; N. rupicola ssp. rupicola is deep yellow. I have had hybrids of N. watieri appear as self-sown seedlings between the pots, but I don't know the other parent; the flowers are pale yellow. There is another member of this complex called N. atlanticus, or rupicola ssp. atlanticus, which has cream-colored flowers; and one that bears multiple flowers on a scape, called N. calcicola. N. rupicola and N. calcicola are hardy in the open garden for me, but I haven't risked the others out of the bulb frame. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From kevin_ink@mac.com Sat Nov 15 21:52:22 2008 Message-Id: From: kevin inkawhich Subject: N. cantabricus flos. Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 18:52:19 -0800 THANK YOU On Nov 15, 2008, at 6:25 PM, Jane McGary wrote: > Kevin asked, > At 01:22 PM 11/15/2008, you wrote: >> Does the foliage of you N. cantabricus come out long before the >> flowers? > > This species has a number of different subspecies (or varieties, or > forms -- you'll have to ask Dr. Koopowitz about Narcissus taxonomy, a > subject on which I resolutely refuse to risk opinions). In some cases > the leaves are well developed before a bud emerges, and in others the > leaves seem to be about half their ultimate length when the scape > (flowering stem) is about half as long as the leaves. I noticed some > like that in the bulb frame today. > > I feel that the different subspecies, or whatever they may be, are so > mixed up in cultivation that it is unwise to apply names like > "foliosus" and "monophyllus" to plants one has grown from seed of > cultivated origin. In addition, N. cantabricus has been hybridized > with N. romieuxii and there are some lovely intermediate forms. > > In flower here today are a N. cantabricus selection from Walter Blom, > and seedings received as N. eugeniae, which I must look up to see > what the "correct" (i.e., British taxonomists') name is. The latter > are pale yellow and up-facing. > > Kevin also asked whether he should chill N. rupicola ssp. watieri > bulbs. I don't know, because they do get chilled here naturally. Ask > Harold. For those unfamiliar with it, this is a very lovely pure > white subspecies, from North Africa; N. rupicola ssp. rupicola is > deep yellow. I have had hybrids of N. watieri appear as self-sown > seedlings between the pots, but I don't know the other parent; the > flowers are pale yellow. There is another member of this complex > called N. atlanticus, or rupicola ssp. atlanticus, which has > cream-colored flowers; and one that bears multiple flowers on a > scape, called N. calcicola. N. rupicola and N. calcicola are hardy in > the open garden for me, but I haven't risked the others out of the > bulb frame. > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon, USA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jshields@indy.net Sun Nov 16 07:32:27 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20081116072441.01b8f7d0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: N. cantabricus flos. Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 07:33:03 -0500 Hi all, Here in central Indiana, USDA cold zone 5, I've not had good luck with the Narcissus cantabricus forms I've raised from seed. They do not survive at all outdoors in the ground, and in the cool greenhouse they dwindle away, almost never blooming. N. calcicola, N. rupicola, N. assoanus, and N. fernandesii have survived in the raised bed rock garden for several years. Only N. calcicola and N. fernandesii still survive, and only calcicola blooms now. None of these did well in pots in the cool greenhouse! N. bulbocodium conspicuus and N. b. nivalis survive outdoors in the ground in regular flower beds, but I think only conspicuus is still blooming each spring. Jim Shields in chilly, rainy central Indiana (USA) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From pierreandre.swart@gmail.com Sun Nov 16 10:47:53 2008 Message-Id: <33b401930811160747s6e6b7b7emff1774add3bc924@mail.gmail.com> From: "Pierre Swart" Subject: Email address Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 17:47:51 +0200 pierreandre.swart@gmail.com -- Pierre André Swart PhD Candidate Research Centre for Plant Growth & Development School of Biological and Conservation Sciences University of KwaZulu-Natal Pietermaritzburg Cell: +27(0)83 260 1344 E mail: pierreandre.swart@gmail.com From perdy@mts.net Sun Nov 16 15:21:50 2008 Message-Id: <1296ADFD830C4C30BEDD3CCE2588E57F@DAndersonPC> From: "D Anderson" Subject: Hymenocallis littoralis Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:22:05 -0600 Hi, what's the best way to start the seeds? Do I just place the rounded part of the seed up in a sandy compost, half cover it with sand and keep it moist? How long can it take to germinate? Does someone have a picture of the seed sprouting? Thanks, Donna in Winnipeg, Manitoba From mmattus@charter.net Sun Nov 16 20:32:22 2008 Message-Id: From: MATT MATTUS Subject: N. cantabricus flos. Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 20:49:24 -0500 Here in central Massachusetts, one hor west of Boston in the snow belt of Worcester County, I too cannot grow N. cantabricus and related forms outside, but in the cold glass house, they have been quite easy for me. Narcissus watieri and N. rupicula won't bloom for me unless they are outside, and seem to do well in the raised stone bed along the western foundation of the greenhouse which acts as both an alpine bed and bulb bed. It is generally covered all winter with at least two feet of snow, since the snow slides off of the greenhouse roof every time it snows, and I think it keeps the ground from freezing deeply, if at all. In the greenhouse, I keep many pots of Narcissus species, mostly the clan and confusing relatives of N romieuxii, N. cantabricus (albidus, zaianicaus, etc). Most are either from seed from the various exchanges, or from shared lot from others. I first became interested after seeing Ian Youngs collection during a NARGS dinner, and later, he shared seeds with me and encouraged to to just 'jump in' because he said, "it's easy". For whatever reason, for me, it was. Then, thanks to nearby NARGS guru Roy Herold, who one summer called me up as asked if I would like to trade some bulbs since he was repotting his collection, I suddenly had a full collection. ( which he recently reminded me that I need to re-share back with him, since he lost some of his). Sharing is a good thing. I find these winter blooming species so rewarding, and easy, but of course, you need the right environment for them. My glass house is cold, 40-45 Degree F in the winter, and single glass, so it gets strong sunlight during the short days of winter, and I have high shelves, where the bulbs can spend the summer hot, dry and baking. They start blooming around Christmas with the N. cantabricus ssp. folioisus, and then many N. romieuxii species and sub species. I have so many, that I have to use Harold;s excel spreadsheet he gave me, to look up the numbers. To make matters worse, I am not as organized as he is, and I usually save seed, and then simply pot it fresh, quickly scribbling out a tag that says something like 'N. Romiuxii December 07 seed-mine. It doesn;t seem to make sense labeling it with more detail, since on warm days, my honey bees find their way in when the vents open, even if there is snow on the ground.. The fragrance must be too much, and they can't help themselves. They seem to bloom in three to four years for me, and with bulbs selling for nearly 10 - 20 US dollars each, a couple of seed pods yields a hundred seeds or so. One needs a full pot, for a decent display. Also, right now, I do have the green flowered autumn species N. viridiflora in bloom, which has never set seed for me, but which has divided nicely from 3 bulbs into 7 over the past two years. Matt Mattus Worcester, MA ZONE 5 On 11/16/08 7:33 AM, "J.E. Shields" wrote: > Hi all, > > Here in central Indiana, USDA cold zone 5, I've not had good luck with the > Narcissus cantabricus forms I've raised from seed. They do not survive at > all outdoors in the ground, and in the cool greenhouse they dwindle away, > almost never blooming. > > N. calcicola, N. rupicola, N. assoanus, and N. fernandesii have survived in > the raised bed rock garden for several years. Only N. calcicola and N. > fernandesii still survive, and only calcicola blooms now. None of these > did well in pots in the cool greenhouse! > > N. bulbocodium conspicuus and N. b. nivalis survive outdoors in the ground > in regular flower beds, but I think only conspicuus is still blooming each > spring. > > Jim Shields > in chilly, rainy central Indiana (USA) > > > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pcamusa@hotmail.com Sun Nov 16 22:59:56 2008 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: Hymenocallis littoralis Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:59:45 -0500 Hi Donna- That should do it. Just keep it warm and give it good light. They should sprout fairly quickly (1 week to a month or two, depending on conditions- might be longer if stressed or temps are low). About a third of the seeds on the ground already had a root started. The average fall and early winter temperature is 75 to 80 degrees (no lower than 60 at night). The top of the soil does not have to always be moist, but good drainage seems important after it gets established. Regards, Phil > From: perdy@mts.net > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:22:05 -0600 > Subject: [pbs] Hymenocallis littoralis > > Hi, what's the best way to start the seeds? Do I just place the rounded part of the seed up in a sandy compost, half cover it with sand and keep it moist? How long can it take to germinate? Does someone have a picture of the seed sprouting? > > Thanks, > Donna in Winnipeg, Manitoba > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _________________________________________________________________ Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_5gb_112008 From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Nov 17 09:58:52 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Sternbergia lutea Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 09:00:24 -0600 Dear Bulb loving friends, A friend just sent me a copy of this recent article "A Morphometric Study of Species Delimitation in Sternbergia lutea (Alliaceae, Amaryllidoideae) and its Allies S. sicula and S. greuterian" by Ewan Gage and Paul Wilkin published in the Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society, 2008, 158, 460-469 Since Sternbergia are frequent garden subjects, I was interested to read this summary: "This research has highlighted a lack of distinctive characters by which S. sicula, S. lutea and S. greuteriana can be separated." The authors assert all Sternbergia belong to a single species and suggest that cultivar names be assigned to horticulturally distinct subjects. Doesn't fit my limited experience with a few very distinctive bulbs. Comments ? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Nov 17 10:22:30 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Sternbergia lutea Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 09:24:16 -0600 Dear Bulb loving friends, A friend just sent me a copy of this recent article "A Morphometric Study of Species Delimitation in Sternbergia lutea (Alliaceae, Amaryllidoideae) and its Allies S. sicula and S. greuterian" by Ewan Gage and Paul Wilkin published in the Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society, 2008, 158, 460-469 Since Sternbergia are frequent garden subjects, I was interested to read this summary: "This research has highlighted a lack of distinctive characters by which S. sicula, S. lutea and S. greuteriana can be separated." The authors assert all Sternbergia belong to a single species and suggest that cultivar names be assigned to horticulturally distinct subjects. Doesn't fit my limited experience with a few very distinctive bulbs. Comments ? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Nov 17 11:00:01 2008 Message-Id: <001701c948cd$c9ac5620$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: N. cantabricus flos. Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:01:42 -0500 I grow most of the forms Jane McGary has offered in her annual surplus bulb distributions since 2005. They are grown in the protected cold frame and have for the most part given no trouble. Bloom time seems to be very erratic as does height of the flowering scapes: sometimes they bloom only an inch or two over the ground, sometimes higher. They are bone dry during the summer and bake in the sun for months. So far I have not given them their first watering of the season until well into November. I did lose Narcissus assoanus this summer: I was unsure just how dry it should be during the summer, so I stored it in a plastic bag with a tiny bit of barely moist soil. It promptly rotted! Here’s a little challenge for you: who else knows the connection between Narcissus assoanus and the petunia relatives grown as Million Bells, Callibrachoa? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where Iris unguicularis has been blooming for two weeks. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From perdy@mts.net Mon Nov 17 12:29:17 2008 Message-Id: <34622149206B42BC929736E5AABBDF83@DAndersonPC> From: "D Anderson" Subject: Hymenocallis littoralis Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:29:24 -0600 Thank you for replying, Phil! :) Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "P. C. Andrews" To: Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:59 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Hymenocallis littoralis > > Hi Donna- That should do it. Just keep it warm and give it good light. > They should sprout fairly quickly (1 week to a month or two, depending on > conditions- might be longer if stressed or temps are low). About a third > of the seeds on the ground already had a root started. The average fall > and early winter temperature is 75 to 80 degrees (no lower than 60 at > night). The top of the soil does not have to always be moist, but good > drainage seems important after it gets established. > Regards, > Phil > > >> From: perdy@mts.net >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:22:05 -0600 >> Subject: [pbs] Hymenocallis littoralis >> >> Hi, what's the best way to start the seeds? Do I just place the rounded >> part of the seed up in a sandy compost, half cover it with sand and keep >> it moist? How long can it take to germinate? Does someone have a >> picture of the seed sprouting? >> >> Thanks, >> Donna in Winnipeg, Manitoba >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail. > http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_5gb_112008 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Nov 17 14:49:47 2008 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Sternbergia lutea Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:49:36 -0800 Jim Waddick wrote > A friend just sent me a copy of this recent article "A >Morphometric Study of Species Delimitation in Sternbergia lutea >(Alliaceae, Amaryllidoideae) and its Allies S. sicula and S. >greuterian" by Ewan Gage and Paul Wilkin published in the Botanical >Journal of the Linnean Society, 2008, 158, 460-469 > "This research has highlighted a lack of distinctive >characters by which S. sicula, S. lutea and S. greuteriana can be >separated." > The authors assert all Sternbergia belong to a single species >and suggest that cultivar names be assigned to horticulturally >distinct subjects. > Doesn't fit my limited experience with a few very distinctive >bulbs. Comments ? At one time Alan Meerow was doing a DNA study of Sternbergia. Has anything come of that? I'm quite prepared to believe that S. lutea and S. sicula are just forms of one species. They are said to frequent different habitats (S. sicula in poor soils on steep slopes, and S. lutea in richer soils on ledges and in flats), but I did see S. lutea clinging to a steep slope in at least one place, and in cultivation they seem minimally distinctive. S. greuteriana is a different matter, to me, because it produces stolons from the bulb. These have even run out of the fine-mesh pot I have it in in the bulb frame, to form bulbs in the surrounding plunge medium. It also flowers well before the others. Then there is a fourth entity, which I grew from seed as S. lutea but it is apparently the very small form of that species reported from Crete. It looks like a half-sized lutea, and I'm not certain but I think it may produce stolons. It flowers later than "greuteriana" and the tepals are a different shape. All of these characteristics are the kind of thing that is important to gardeners and "traditional" botany. Since the study Jim mentions is morphometric, not genetic, it is surprising that it did not find distinctive characters. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From JmsJon664@aol.com Mon Nov 17 16:13:47 2008 Message-Id: <8CB17107AD00DC0-84C-926@WEBMAIL-DG07.sim.aol.com> From: jmsjon664@aol.com Subject: N. cantabricus flo Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:13:32 -0500 Replying to Jim Shields' comments: N. fernandesii has slowly built up steam over 20 years from seed ( Monocot Seeds), mostly in the ground in a 15F entryway but also well enough in pots in the 30F sunhouse. Growing medium is my local moderately acid soil. Attempts outside didn't work. Seed was set once, germinated, then died. The scent repays all efforts at growing. N. rupicola does well here, though probably better in a richer situation than the rock garden. It self-sow, though not in abandon. Jim Jones Lexington, MA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Nov 17 20:11:35 2008 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Status of Merendera Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:11:25 -0800 I've just been trying to find out via internet search whether Merendera is still regarded as a genus separate from Colchicum, and I could not find any information that looked authoritative. Does anyone know if the genus Merendera is still valid? The last time I investigated this, I was told that it was sunk in Colchicum, but that was about 5 or 6 years ago, and some publications appear still to be using Merendera. I got onto this after admiring Merendera attica, or COlchicum atticum, in the bulb frame this afternoon. Its flowers are white, just barely flushed pink, and rise barely above the soil, set off by gray-lavender anthers. Other Merendera (?) species flower here much earlier in fall. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Nov 17 22:07:26 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Cannaceae of the World Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:08:35 -0600 Dear Friends, All you Canna fans have good reason to investigate a new publication. The authors have been working and publishing bits for decades, but here it is all together. .... finally: THE CANNACEAE OF THE WORLD by H. MAAS-VAN DE KAMER & P.J.M. MAAS published in BLUMEA 53: 247-318 Published on 29 October 2008 You can currently view this free at http://docserver.ingentaconnect.com/deliver/connect/nhn/00065196/v53n2/s3.pdf?expires=1226979027&id=47184883&titleid=75002419&accname=Guest+User&checksum=BF4420210FA4C036F21D53B0C286A9FD Don't know how long it will be available as a free pdf. Enjoy Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From paige@hillkeep.ca Mon Nov 17 23:00:45 2008 Message-Id: <83A2099FE7F14A9682E84D572B565753@m6u3j5> From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: Status of Merendera Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:00:37 -0800 Jane McGary asked about the status of Merendera. It's now Colchicum, according to Karin Persson, who is pretty well recognized as the arbiter of taxonomy in Colchicaceae, the Colchicum family. Current Colchicum taxonomy is summarized in Persson's "Nomenclatural Synopsis of the Genus Colchicum (Colchicaceae), with some new species and combinations" in the December 2007 Botanische Jahrbücher für Systematik, Pflanzengeschichte und Pflanzengeographie. Jane, I have no time to check details but I would not be surprised if your references for "Merendera not" were either by Persson or leaning on her. For those who require a little oxygen, Karin Persson is a botanist at the Göteborg Botanical Garden in Sweden. After years and years of work in field and lab, published bursts, she has been promising for some time to publish a detailed treatment of Colchicaceae in book form. The Botanische Jahrbücher für Systematik has considerable whomp. Can anyone suggest a journal in English with the same status? I was thinking perhaps the Journal of the Linnean Society. (Blurt in haste, repent at leisure). Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca From xerantheum@gmail.com Tue Nov 18 00:25:53 2008 Message-Id: From: "Nhu Nguyen" Subject: Cannaceae of the World Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:25:50 -0800 Thank you, Jim for sharing such a great botanical treatment! I had no idea that some species were native to the Southern United States. This publication is definitely worth saving onto your computer, even if you're not a Canna fan. Nhu Berkeley, CA -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/ On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 7:08 PM, James Waddick wrote: > > Dear Friends, > All you Canna fans have good reason to investigate a new > publication. The authors have been working and publishing bits for > decades, but here it is all together. .... finally: > > > THE CANNACEAE OF THE WORLD by H. MAAS-VAN DE KAMER & P.J.M. > MAAS published in BLUMEA 53: 247-318 Published on 29 October 2008 > > You can currently view this free at > > > http://docserver.ingentaconnect.com/deliver/connect/nhn/00065196/v53n2/s3.pdf?expires=1226979027&id=47184883&titleid=75002419&accname=Guest+User&checksum=BF4420210FA4C036F21D53B0C286A9FD > > From xerantheum@gmail.com Tue Nov 18 00:35:56 2008 Message-Id: From: "Nhu Nguyen" Subject: Sternbergia lutea Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:35:23 -0800 On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 7:00 AM, James Waddick wrote: > Dear Bulb loving friends, > A friend just sent me a copy of this recent article "A > Morphometric Study of Species Delimitation in Sternbergia lutea > (Alliaceae, Amaryllidoideae) and its Allies S. sicula and S. > greuterian" > Does anyone find it strange that they're including Sternbergia in the Alliaceae? Nhu -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/ From crinum@libero.it Tue Nov 18 03:25:16 2008 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Grossi" Subject: Cannaceae of the World Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:25:14 +0100 James, sorry but the link doesn't work anymore. If anyone was lucky to download it may forward it to me? James I tried to reply to you privately but all my mails returned as failed. Thank you to you and Aaron! Alberto ---------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:08:35 -0600 Subject : [pbs] Cannaceae of the World > > Dear Friends, > All you Canna fans have good reason to investigate a new > publication. The authors have been working and publishing bits for > decades, but here it is all together. .... finally: > > > THE CANNACEAE OF THE WORLD by H. MAAS-VAN DE KAMER & P.J.M. > MAAS published in BLUMEA 53: 247-318 Published on 29 October 2008 > > You can currently view this free at > > http://docserver.ingentaconnect.com/deliver/connect/nhn/00065196/v53n2/s3.pdf?expires=1226979027&id=47184883&titleid=75002419&accname=Guest+User&checksum=BF4420210FA4C036F21D53B0C286A9FD > > Don't know how long it will be available as a free pdf. > > Enjoy Jim W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > Alberto Grossi Italy From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Tue Nov 18 06:09:23 2008 Message-Id: <412977275B2A4672AC1116C6983595EA@2CVEVE1> From: "Brian Whyer" Subject: Cannaceae of the World Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:08:26 -0000 Hi Try this link http://tinyurl.com/6qdeb5 There is an option to download a pdf file on it. I would highly recommend anyone adding links to messages that they make use of www.tinyurl.com to shrink these very long website addresses, as long as they are open access addresses and don't require a login etc. BUT do make sure they work before sending them as you may have pasted in a wrong address to the tinyurl website by accident to start with. Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, wet and cold at present, at least by our standards. > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On > Behalf Of Alberto Grossi > Sent: 18 November 2008 8:25 > To: pbs > Subject: Re: [pbs] Cannaceae of the World > > James, sorry but the link doesn't work anymore. If anyone was lucky to download it > may forward it to me? > James I tried to reply to you privately but all my mails returned as failed. Thank you > to you and Aaron! > > Alberto > > > > > ---------- Initial Header ----------- > > >From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org > To : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Cc : > Date : Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:08:35 -0600 > Subject : [pbs] Cannaceae of the World > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Friends, > > All you Canna fans have good reason to investigate a new > > publication. The authors have been working and publishing bits for > > decades, but here it is all together. .... finally: > > > > > > THE CANNACEAE OF THE WORLD by H. MAAS-VAN DE KAMER & > P.J.M. > > MAAS published in BLUMEA 53: 247-318 Published on 29 October 2008 > > > > You can currently view this free at > > > > > http://docserver.ingentaconnect.com/deliver/connect/nhn/00065196/v53n2/s3.pd f?e > xpires=1226979027&id=47184883&titleid=75002419&accname=Guest+User&chec > ksum=BF4420210FA4C036F21D53B0C286A9FD > > > > Don't know how long it will be available as a free pdf. > > > > Enjoy Jim W. > > -- > > Dr. James W. Waddick > > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > > USA > > Ph. 816-746-1949 > > Zone 5 Record low -23F > > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > Alberto Grossi > Italy > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From alanidae@gmail.com Tue Nov 18 06:38:57 2008 Message-Id: From: "Alani Davis" Subject: Cannaceae of the World Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 06:38:55 -0500 Also you can go to this link http://www.ingentaconnect.com/about/ingenta_labs/home and paste the title in the search window on the right side of the screen and it will take you to a link to the document. It is still available; its just that the original link has expired, but this will take you to a fresh link. Alani Davis north Florida where we will get our first freeze tonight From carlobal@netzero.net Tue Nov 18 06:42:11 2008 Message-Id: <20081118.064024.17217.1@webmail12.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.net" Subject: Cannaceae of the World Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:40:24 GMT Same problem here...Ingenta not allowing access... Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2849) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com and its BGBlog From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Nov 18 10:12:21 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Cannaceae of the World Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:13:49 -0600 Friends, I tried the link this morning after all the news of failure. It worked fine. You can also go to http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/nhn/blumea/2008/00000053/00000002 Click "The Cannacaeae of the World" and then view pdf (Full text free). If you still have problems, write to me privately and I'll help Enjoy Jim -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From crinum@libero.it Tue Nov 18 11:09:28 2008 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Grossi" Subject: Cannaceae of the World Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:09:27 +0100 This time it works very well. Many thanks. Alberto ---------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : "Pacific Bulb Society" pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:13:49 -0600 Subject : Re: [pbs] Cannaceae of the World > Friends, > I tried the link this morning after all the news of failure. > It worked fine. > > You can also go to > http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/nhn/blumea/2008/00000053/00000002 > > Click "The Cannacaeae of the World" and then view pdf (Full text free). > > If you still have problems, write to me privately and I'll > help > > Enjoy Jim > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > Alberto Grossi Italy From carlobal@netzero.net Tue Nov 18 11:22:33 2008 Message-Id: <20081118.112141.16323.1@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.net" Subject: Cannaceae of the World Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:21:41 GMT And I've got it too...thanks to everyone for their help. Now all I need is time to read it! Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2849) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com and its BGBlog From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Tue Nov 18 11:54:52 2008 Message-Id: <32560786.6513.1227027283854.JavaMail.www@wwinf1c16> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Cannaceae of the World Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:54:43 +0100 (CET) I took time to read it this morning and it is wonderful information clearly written and precise.Bravo and merci ! > Message du 18/11/08 17:22 > De : "carlobal@netzero.net" > A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [pbs] Cannaceae of the World > > > > And I've got it too...thanks to everyone for their help. Now all I need is time to read it! > > Carlo A. Balistrieri > The Gardens at Turtle Point > Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 > Zone 6 (845.351.2849) > Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com and its BGBlog > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From c-mueller@tamu.edu Tue Nov 18 12:58:25 2008 Message-Id: <4922ADB1.E5F2.008A.0@ag.tamu.edu> From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: Cannaceae of the World Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:57:37 -0600 re: "The Cannacaeae of the World" I, too, tried the second link and was able to read the material. It appeared to be sent to me from the A&M library in the next block! -Cynthia Mueller _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Nov 18 12:58:47 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Cannaceae of the World Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:59:43 -0600 >I took time to read it this morning and it is wonderful information >clearly written and precise.Bravo and merci ! Dear Mark and all, The Maas's have been working on this for a while. They have published smaller articles in various Floras, but this is years of work compiled very neatly. As a semi-student of the Family/genus I see a few gaps or topics they just did not mention. The most recent other monograph by N. Tanaka (2001) came up with 19 species. Disregarding the taxonomic conclusions, the biological discussions are very worth while. And if you are really interested in the cultivars and their origins, you should read the 7 articles by I. Mukherjee &T. Khoshoo "Genetic Evolutionary Studies in Cultivated Cannas". They are scattered around in various journals, and not referenced in Maas' paper. This is a fascinating genus that well deserves this new paper. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From totototo@telus.net Tue Nov 18 13:10:23 2008 Message-Id: <49229679.3558.139DFA8B@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Sternbergia lutea Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:18:33 -0800 On 17 Nov 2008, at 11:49, Jane McGary wrote: > [Different habitats, stoloniferous habit, flowering time, size, and tepal > shape] ... are the kind of thing that is important to gardeners and > "traditional" botany. Important to gardeners, but only marginally relevant (if at all) to the delineation of species via "traditional" botany, where the emphasis is on the morphology of the sexual parts of the flowers. The classical test used to answer the question "one species or two?" is hybridization with the creation of fertile offspring. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=48.4676,-123.3262&ll=48.4676,-123.3262&z=14 From maxwithers@gmail.com Tue Nov 18 17:23:34 2008 Message-Id: <49234060.30703@gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: Status of Merendera Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 14:23:28 -0800 A professional could probably answer this easily, but a quick look at ISI JSR (which determines the "impact factors" of scientific journals, basically by the frequency of cited articles) shows that Taxon has the highest factor (2.524) of any journal devoted specifically to systematics. Systematic Botany (NYBG) is 1.632; Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society is 1.075. They don't cover Bot. Jb. fur Systematik. The Annual Review of Plant Biology has the highest impact factor in the plant sciences, at 18.712, but all the rest are below 10. Nature, by contrast, is 28.751. Max Withers Oakland CA > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:00:37 -0800 > From: "Pacific Rim" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Status of Merendera > > .... > > The Botanische Jahrb?cher f?r Systematik has considerable whomp. Can anyone > suggest a journal in English with the same status? I was thinking perhaps > the Journal of the Linnean Society. (Blurt in haste, repent at leisure). > > Paige Woodward > paige@hillkeep.ca > www.hillkeep.ca From leo@possi.org Tue Nov 18 18:14:42 2008 Message-Id: <313ae38846f9368932609a1a5e308e9b.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Leo's Mystery Strumaria Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:14:40 -0800 (PST) Dylan wrote in reply to Mary Sue [snip] > Leaving floral details aside, I have grown [Strumaria discifera] ssp. > bulbifera for > some years and it is very distinct vegetatively since it offsets > prolifically (every year each plant makes some new offsets). These plants > have linear, ascending, softly hairy leaves. In contrast, the four > different accessions (separate gatherings) of ssp. discifera I grow each > has different leaf morphology/presentation, and at least one has leaves > similar to ssp. bulbifera as described above but the plants are solitary. > Offsetting in this genus in general is uncommon, and I > would describe all four of these ssp. discifera as solitary bulbs. All > have been under similar conditions for 5-10 years. My mystery plant has linear, ascending, softly hairy leaves. There are multiple plants in the pot but I don't know whether or not that is due to offsetting; it is a seedling pot that I haven't unpotted since sowing. When I do repot it next fall I'll try to remember to check whether the plants are offsetting or solitary. I pollinated what I believe were separate individuals in the pot and got seed. I am attempting to sprout it now. Leo From paige@hillkeep.ca Wed Nov 19 01:22:06 2008 Message-Id: <6797EC9C6B53482085228225A237DB46@m6u3j5> From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: Journal of Citation Reports, was Status of Merendera Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:21:58 -0800 Max Withers refers to ISI JSR -- :-) -- for the rest of us, the Journal of Citation Reports. It's at http://www.thomsonreuters.com/products_services/scientific/Journal_Citation_Reports . I confess that when I mentioned the status of publications, I was not thinking statistically. For anyone who wants to consult ISI JCR, an immediate problem is that (as with other online references that try to make a profit) if one lacks an institutional subscription one must either pay to get in or corrupt a friend with the entry code. This has to do with the ownership of knowledge. A deeper problem is the definition of knowledge. "Sources most cited" might not be the most accurate. Surely accuracy counts most. Copernicus said in the 16th century that Earth circles the Sun. Until then, for millennia, most savants had imagined, or repeated, that the Sun circles Earth. "Sources most cited" in the 16th century would not have highlighted Copernicus. Habit, fashion, ignorance, sycophancy, doziness, fear for one's life: nonsense is repeated for many reasons. This said, from time to time I read the "most cited" journals that Max mentions. When I can gain access to them. ;-) Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Withers" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Status of Merendera >A professional could probably answer this easily, but a quick look at > ISI JSR (which determines the "impact factors" of scientific journals, > basically by the frequency of cited articles) shows that Taxon has the > highest factor (2.524) of any journal devoted specifically to > systematics. Systematic Botany (NYBG) is 1.632; Botanical Journal of the > Linnean Society is 1.075. They don't cover Bot. Jb. fur Systematik. > > The Annual Review of Plant Biology has the highest impact factor in the > plant sciences, at 18.712, but all the rest are below 10. Nature, by > contrast, is 28.751. > > Max Withers > Oakland CA .org/mailman/listinfo/pbs > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From othonna@gmail.com Wed Nov 19 10:55:31 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260811190746t3ac06b5bu288f15b3268439d7@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Journal of Citation Reports, was Status of Merendera Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 07:46:19 -0800 Any journal that is "most cited" is also likely to be more generalized. This factor is independent of quality of research, which may be as high or higher in less circulated, specialized periodicals. Dylan Hannon On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Pacific Rim wrote: > Max Withers refers to ISI JSR -- :-) -- for the rest of us, the Journal of > Citation Reports. > It's at > > http://www.thomsonreuters.com/products_services/scientific/Journal_Citation_Reports. > > > I confess that when I mentioned the status of publications, I was not > thinking statistically. > > For anyone who wants to consult ISI JCR, an immediate problem is that (as > with other online references that try to make a profit) if one lacks an > institutional subscription one must either pay to get in or corrupt a > friend > with the entry code. This has to do with the ownership of knowledge. > > A deeper problem is the definition of knowledge. "Sources most cited" might > not be the most accurate. Surely accuracy counts most. Copernicus said in > the 16th century that Earth circles the Sun. Until then, for millennia, > most > savants had imagined, or repeated, that the Sun circles Earth. "Sources > most > cited" in the 16th century would not have highlighted Copernicus. Habit, > fashion, ignorance, sycophancy, doziness, fear for one's life: nonsense is > repeated for many reasons. > > This said, from time to time I read the "most cited" journals that Max > mentions. When I can gain access to them. ;-) > > Paige Woodward > paige@hillkeep.ca > www.hillkeep.ca > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Max Withers" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:23 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Status of Merendera > > > >A professional could probably answer this easily, but a quick look at > > ISI JSR (which determines the "impact factors" of scientific journals, > > basically by the frequency of cited articles) shows that Taxon has the > > highest factor (2.524) of any journal devoted specifically to > > systematics. Systematic Botany (NYBG) is 1.632; Botanical Journal of the > > Linnean Society is 1.075. They don't cover Bot. Jb. fur Systematik. > > > > The Annual Review of Plant Biology has the highest impact factor in the > > plant sciences, at 18.712, but all the rest are below 10. Nature, by > > contrast, is 28.751. > > > > Max Withers > > Oakland CA > .org/mailman/listinfo/pbs > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From msittner@mcn.org Wed Nov 19 11:16:09 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20081119072547.03574ed8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Family Information Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 07:55:44 -0800 Nhu asked about why Sternbergia was included in Alliaceae in the article Jim noted about Sternbergia. That is because the Angiospermy Phylogeny Group (2003) proposed sinking Amaryllidaceae and Agapanthaceae into Alliaceae. You will note if you check the Kew monocot world check list for family listings that this list uses the suggested alternatives so all the genera that were once in Amaryllidaceae are now listed in Alliaceae. Another example is the alternative placement by APG (2003) in Asparagaceae of Agavaceae, Anthericaceae, Hyacinthaceae, and Themidaceae. If you look up any genus in the Kew list that used to be in one of those families you now find them listed in Asparagaceae. This makes for some giant families. It's hard for me to think how Brodiaea, Lachenalia, Pasithea, Agave and Asparagus are alike enough to all be in the same family. For those of us who consider ourselves gardeners, not botanists, it means that there is no real advantage in learning the different families and which genera are now included in them since those definitions have become so broad. Mary Sue From othonna@gmail.com Wed Nov 19 12:07:17 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260811190906n4ea43c65laf4195e45ba42d68@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Family Information Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:06:30 -0800 Mary Sue, Rest assured, the scheme will change again in future as new data is sifted and new understandings-- and opinions-- are garnered. A look at the *old* literature shows that frequently what we think of as shocking new proposals are merely resurrections of (nearly) forgotten ideas. The problem of the legumes, a natural group if there ever was one, is a relatively simple example. Is it comprised of three subfamilies (caesalpinioids, faboids, mimosoids)-- or is each of these a family in its own right? Do such questions matter much? To who? At a certain point of fineness there is a loss of stability or durability in classification, with regard to ranking groups especially. Some profound changes do "catch on" and are very useful, such as Dahlgren's splitting up of the lily family in the old and very broad sense. The same seems to be true with recent re-workings of Malvaceae and Scrophulariaceae. If these changes are mainly induced by molecular evidence then hobbyists may have little chance of grasping the new classifications based on familiar characteristics. The important idea here, in my view, is to help users at all levels to recognize natural groupings of plants regardless of what name they receive or how these names are arranged. Thanks to the intrepid work of Alan Meerow an others we know the amaryllids are a natural, monophyletic group, so is Agapanthus by itself and so too the onions and also Themidaceae (Milla, Brodiaea, etc.). There is good cause and good evidence for recognizing each of these as a stand alone group at some level, and it is also possible to justify merging them all into one family (plus others) depending on how that evidence is put to use. Botanists will be forever arranging and rearranging these units, and the units themselves may change, but we can still recognize many natural groups without undue worry about how they fit in the scheme of things. We need to know where to find the things we need in the grocery in a predictable way; we don't need to know the whole layout of the store and what the manager is thinking about every item. Dylan Hannon On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 7:55 AM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Nhu asked about why Sternbergia was included in Alliaceae in the article > Jim noted about Sternbergia. That is because the Angiospermy Phylogeny > Group (2003) proposed sinking Amaryllidaceae and Agapanthaceae into > Alliaceae. You will note if you check the Kew monocot world check list for > family listings that this list uses the suggested alternatives so all the > genera that were once in Amaryllidaceae are now listed in Alliaceae. > Another example is the alternative placement by APG (2003) in Asparagaceae > of Agavaceae, Anthericaceae, Hyacinthaceae, and Themidaceae. If you look up > any genus in the Kew list that used to be in one of those families you now > find them listed in Asparagaceae. This makes for some giant families. It's > hard for me to think how Brodiaea, Lachenalia, Pasithea, Agave and > Asparagus are alike enough to all be in the same family. For those of us > who consider ourselves gardeners, not botanists, it means that there is no > real advantage in learning the different families and which genera are now > included in them since those definitions have become so broad. > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From SRS0=Tr+y4N=32=johnlonsdale.net=john@eigbox.net Wed Nov 19 12:36:47 2008 Message-Id: <003f01c94a6d$5e0d7240$6801a8c0@XPS400> From: "John T Lonsdale" Subject: Family Information Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:36:33 -0500 Taxonomy is a hoot! It is a fascinating and frustrating area of science that seems to be the least dependent upon facts and the most open to opinion. There is no ultimately right answer - ever. Once the facts (whatever characters are being measured) have been established they can be used as evidence to make whatever argument the taxonomist wants, even conveniently ignoring several if they don't fit the desired end result. Just moving a ruler up or down a dendrogram can create and destroy huge entities like families. It should also be remembered that many taxonomic decisions are based upon the analysis of facts derived from herbarium material - which often bears no resemblance to the living plant, is often wrongly identified in the first place, and by definition is a single entity which can't possibly be representative of all the populations out there in nature. Dylan said "Botanists will be forever arranging and rearranging these units, and the units themselves may change, but we can still recognize many natural groups without undue worry about how they fit in the scheme of things". True - because there is no scheme of things. The taxonomists union has an unwritten rule that no two people ever work in the same area to ensure that 1) there are enough plants to go around and 2) someone's opinion will always be right until the next installment comes along. Long live taxonomy - even if it is just an opinion. Best, J. PS. I am a card carrying taxonomist - my thesis involved taxonomic studies of a bizarre group of acidophilic actinomycetes that live in acid coal mine wastes. Really important stuff - my mum never knew what to say when folks asked her what I did. John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From zigur@hotmail.com Wed Nov 19 13:46:17 2008 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: Journal of Citation Reports, was Status of Merendera Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:46:05 -0800 I have to disagree. Journals such as Science or Nature are most cited because they publish the most significant papers in a variety of fields. While they are in the contents-sense general, competition to get papers published in them results in the highest quality (and impact) work being there. Laboratories also try to choose higher rated journals in which to publish their results, which further adds to the cycle. I would have to add the caveat that the Botany/Taxonomy community has a lot of idiosyncrasies, especially when it comes to peer review. T> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 07:46:19 -0800> From: othonna@gmail.com> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: Re: [pbs] Journal of Citation Reports, was Status of Merendera> > Any journal that is "most cited" is also likely to be more generalized. This> factor is independent of quality of research, which may be as high or higher> in less circulated, specialized periodicals.> Dylan Hannon> > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Pacific Rim wrote:> > > Max Withers refers to ISI JSR -- :-) -- for the rest of us, the Journal of> > Citation Reports.> > It's at> >> > http://www.thomsonreuters.com/products_services/scientific/Journal_Citation_Reports.> >> >> > I confess that when I mentioned the status of publications, I was not> > thinking statistically.> >> > For anyone who wants to consult ISI JCR, an immediate problem is that (as> > with other online references that try to make a profit) if one lacks an> > institutional subscription one must either pay to get in or corrupt a> > friend> > with the entry code. This has to do with the ownership of knowledge.> >> > A deeper problem is the definition of knowledge. "Sources most cited" might> > not be the most accurate. Surely accuracy counts most. Copernicus said in> > the 16th century that Earth circles the Sun. Until then, for millennia,> > most> > savants had imagined, or repeated, that the Sun circles Earth. "Sources> > most> > cited" in the 16th century would not have highlighted Copernicus. Habit,> > fashion, ignorance, sycophancy, doziness, fear for one's life: nonsense is> > repeated for many reasons.> >> > This said, from time to time I read the "most cited" journals that Max> > mentions. When I can gain access to them. ;-)> >> > Paige Woodward> > paige@hillkeep.ca> > www.hillkeep.ca> >> > ----- Original Message -----> > From: "Max Withers" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:23 PM> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Status of Merendera> >> >> > >A professional could probably answer this easily, but a quick look at> > > ISI JSR (which determines the "impact factors" of scientific journals,> > > basically by the frequency of cited articles) shows that Taxon has the> > > highest factor (2.524) of any journal devoted specifically to> > > systematics. Systematic Botany (NYBG) is 1.632; Botanical Journal of the> > > Linnean Society is 1.075. They don't cover Bot. Jb. fur Systematik.> > >> > > The Annual Review of Plant Biology has the highest impact factor in the> > > plant sciences, at 18.712, but all the rest are below 10. Nature, by> > > contrast, is 28.751.> > >> > > Max Withers> > > Oakland CA> > .org/mailman/listinfo/pbs> > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki> > >> >> > _______________________________________________> > pbs mailing list> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki> >> _______________________________________________> pbs mailing list> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From totototo@telus.net Wed Nov 19 14:02:01 2008 Message-Id: <4923F412.1227.18F3CBDC@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Family Information Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:10:10 -0800 On 19 Nov 2008, at 7:55, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Nhu asked about why Sternbergia was included in Alliaceae in the article > Jim noted about Sternbergia. That is because the Angiospermy Phylogeny > Group (2003) proposed sinking Amaryllidaceae and Agapanthaceae into > Alliaceae.... > For those of us who consider ourselves gardeners, not botanists, it means > that there is no real advantage in learning the different families and which > genera are now included in them since those definitions have become so broad. One has to wonder why on earth no one has proposed leaving these (former) families alone and erecting a super-family to encompass them. The instability of family definitions is, as Mary Sue so eloquently testifies, becoming a problem for those of us who use taxonomic knowledge in real life. One can only hope that the international group responsible for botanical nomenclature will wake up to this problem and perhaps freeze families, just as they have frozen certain genera. (The technical word is "conserve", not "freeze.") It's time for the botanists to pull their act together and start legislating, instead of the current everyman-for-himself approach. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=48.4676,-123.3262&ll=48.4676,-123.3262&z=14 From othonna@gmail.com Wed Nov 19 15:06:22 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260811191206y3efb5527va95576029b4d44a0@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Journal of Citation Reports, was Status of Merendera Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:06:13 -0800 Tim makes a good point, but then there are those subtleties he mentions. Notable among these is that the highest profile journals he indicates are the most cutting edge and at the forefront of scientific investigation. Charting new frontiers in knowledge, competitively, is their strength. This does not mean that 'lesser' or more obscure journals produce work of lesser quality, but their contributions may be less exciting within the greater body of new scientific information. The latter can produce very solid and practical results that will be of use to a smaller group for a longer period of years. Such work does not try to compete with the cutting edge (and often more fleeting) science found in the most cited journals. Dylan On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Tim Harvey wrote: > > I have to disagree. Journals such as Science or Nature are most cited > because they publish the most significant papers in a variety of fields. > While they are in the contents-sense general, competition to get papers > published in them results in the highest quality (and impact) work being > there. > > Laboratories also try to choose higher rated journals in which to publish > their results, which further adds to the cycle. > > I would have to add the caveat that the Botany/Taxonomy community has a lot > of idiosyncrasies, especially when it comes to peer review. > > T> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 07:46:19 -0800> From: othonna@gmail.com> To: > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: Re: [pbs] Journal of Citation Reports, was > Status of Merendera> > Any journal that is "most cited" is also likely to be > more generalized. This> factor is independent of quality of research, which > may be as high or higher> in less circulated, specialized periodicals.> > Dylan Hannon> > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Pacific Rim < > paige@hillkeep.ca> wrote:> > > Max Withers refers to ISI JSR -- :-) -- for > the rest of us, the Journal of> > Citation Reports.> > It's at> >> > > http://www.thomsonreuters.com/products_services/scientific/Journal_Citation_Reports.> > >> >> > I confess that when I mentioned the status of publications, I was > not> > thinking statistically.> >> > For anyone who wants to consult ISI > JCR, an immediate problem is that (as> > with other online references that > try to make a profit) if one lacks an> > institutional subscription one must > either pay to get in or co > rrupt a> > friend> > with the entry code. This has to do with the > ownership of knowledge.> >> > A deeper problem is the definition of > knowledge. "Sources most cited" might> > not be the most accurate. Surely > accuracy counts most. Copernicus said in> > the 16th century that Earth > circles the Sun. Until then, for millennia,> > most> > savants had imagined, > or repeated, that the Sun circles Earth. "Sources> > most> > cited" in the > 16th century would not have highlighted Copernicus. Habit,> > fashion, > ignorance, sycophancy, doziness, fear for one's life: nonsense is> > > repeated for many reasons.> >> > This said, from time to time I read the > "most cited" journals that Max> > mentions. When I can gain access to them. > ;-)> >> > Paige Woodward> > paige@hillkeep.ca> > www.hillkeep.ca> >> > > ----- Original Message -----> > From: "Max Withers" > > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:23 PM> > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Status of Merendera> >> > > > > >A professional could probably answer this easily, but a quick look > at> > > ISI JSR (which determines the "impact factors" of scientific > journals,> > > basically by the frequency of cited articles) shows that > Taxon has the> > > highest factor (2.524) of any journal devoted > specifically to> > > systematics. Systematic Botany (NYBG) is 1.632; > Botanical Journal of the> > > Linnean Society is 1.075. They don't cover > Bot. Jb. fur Systematik.> > >> > > The Annual Review of Plant Biology has > the highest impact factor in the> > > plant sciences, at 18.712, but all the > rest are below 10. Nature, by> > > contrast, is 28.751.> > >> > > Max > Withers> > > Oakland CA> > .org/mailman/listinfo/pbs> > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki> > >> >> > > _______________________________________________> > pbs mailing list> > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php> > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki> >> > _______________________________________________> pbs m > ailing list> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From xerantheum@gmail.com Wed Nov 19 15:34:54 2008 Message-Id: From: "Nhu Nguyen" Subject: Family Information Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:34:53 -0800 On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 11:10 AM, wrote: > It's time for the botanists to pull their act together and start > legislating, > instead of the current everyman-for-himself approach. The problem as I see it goes beyond botanists. Taxonomists in general are very highly opinionated with their "group". When they try to come together, there's usually a hot debate due to the highly opinionated foundation of the field. For certain questions, it's important to have a higher classification, but for the end user (gardeners and non-taxonomists alike), the species unit is the least artificial. But even at that level, there are still hot debates on what constitute a species. It is clear in the age of genomics is that a single species concept cannot be used to encompass all living things. Nhu Berkeley, CA - it's about to rain, finally! From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Nov 19 17:12:41 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: A Modest Proposal - NABS Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:14:30 -0600 Dear Friends, Apologies first to a unnamed corespondent, whose message I have edited mercilessly in section "1" below. I propose a name change for the Pacific Bulb Society to 'The North American Bulb Society'. 1. PBS really is move diverse than the name suggest : Although our group is called the Pacific Bulb Society, it's only that in name. In terms of the interest of its members there don't seem to be many limits. Tropical plants are rarely discussed and are low on the list of items included in the wiki. The group grew out of a wish to be inclusive, friendly and geared to gardening. The PBS list now has 469 members. I wish we had a different name to reflect who we are. If you look at the Board members of what will be the new board, there are two from California, one from Arizona, one from Oregon, one from Pennsylvania, one from New Jersey, and one from New York so that represents a range of climates. Actual members are even more diverse. 2. The PBS actually reflects a North American, not just Pacific interest in all sorts of bulbs. There is no North American Bulb Society. There is no American Bulb Society. (Either name would be very appropriate, but would suggest input from other North American interests (you know who you are ! ) 3. A new board and officers will further reflect the diversity. 4. As 'The North American Bulb Society' our group will attract even more interest from people (like me) unhappy with joining a group centered only on Pacific Coast interests (as the name, not the content, suggests). 5. With a new slate of officers and a new board, this is a good time to seek a change of name that better reflects the membership and the interests of the organization. 6. Isn't it time for a true North American Bulb Society ? The structure and organization already exists. The name change is relatively minor - in name only. It can only strengthen our group. Can we talk about this and get a response from the organization that hosts this web exchange? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From kellso@irvincentral.com Wed Nov 19 18:33:57 2008 Message-Id: <4924A254.2000603@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: A Modest Proposal - NABS Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:33:40 -0600 I couldn't agree with you more, Jim. One thing I would change, and it's because of the internet, I would make it a little longer, The North American Flower Bulb Society. Other considerations: The Cooperators' Flower Bulb Society The Intercontinental Flower Bulb Society and, quite frankly, The International Flower Bulb Society, which is not in conflict with any other name. Almost from its inception the PBS has spanned beyond the boundaries of California and Washington, and the name very well may turn people away who may be interested in flower bulb culture but get the impression that a west coast climatic emphasis will not help them. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ James Waddick wrote: > Dear Friends, > Apologies first to a unnamed corespondent, whose message I > have edited mercilessly in section "1" below. > > I propose a name change for the Pacific Bulb Society to 'The > North American Bulb Society'. > > 1. PBS really is move diverse than the name suggest : > Although our group is called the Pacific Bulb Society, it's > only that in name. In terms of the interest of its members there > don't seem to be many limits. Tropical plants are rarely discussed > and are low on the list of items included in the wiki. The group grew > out of a wish to be inclusive, friendly and geared to gardening. > > The PBS list now has 469 members. I wish we had a different > name to reflect who we are. If you look at the Board members of what > will be the new board, there are two from California, one from > Arizona, one from Oregon, one from Pennsylvania, one from New Jersey, > and one from New York so that represents a range of climates. > > Actual members are even more diverse. > > 2. The PBS actually reflects a North American, not just > Pacific interest in all sorts of bulbs. There is no North American > Bulb Society. There is no American Bulb Society. (Either name would > be very appropriate, but would suggest input from other North > American interests (you know who you are ! ) > > 3. A new board and officers will further reflect the diversity. > > 4. As 'The North American Bulb Society' our group will > attract even more interest from people (like me) unhappy with joining > a group centered only on Pacific Coast interests (as the name, not > the content, suggests). > > 5. With a new slate of officers and a new board, this is a > good time to seek a change of name that better reflects the > membership and the interests of the organization. > > 6. Isn't it time for a true North American Bulb Society ? The > structure and organization already exists. The name change is > relatively minor - in name only. It can only strengthen our group. > > Can we talk about this and get a response from the > organization that hosts this web exchange? > > Best Jim W. > From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Nov 19 18:42:17 2008 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Family Information Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 15:42:08 -0800 Nhu wrote, "For certain questions, it's important to have a higher >classification, but for the end user (gardeners and non-taxonomists alike), >the species unit is the least artificial. I was asking about Merendera/Colchicum not so much as a gardener, but as an editor with a responsibility to provide readers with the "most valid" names for the plants people write about. I sometimes have drawn a line in the sand -- you will not find "Cistanthe tweedyi" in the Rock Garden Quarterly -- but I do try to offer synonyms where there is controversy, and where I know about it. I have also thrown up my hands in despair on certain issues, such as the genus Narcissus, and just go with whatever name an author wants, perhaps with a disclaimer where it is not too tactless. And this is why I don't think the web will replace print publication too soon: believe it or not, editors do a lot of work for you, and if they are any good, they are constantly trying to anticipate the needs of the audience. Jane McGary From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Wed Nov 19 18:44:02 2008 Message-Id: <19417058.1227138241652.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: A Modest Proposal - NABS Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:44:01 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >and, quite frankly, > >The International Flower Bulb Society, > >which is not in conflict with any other name. > International Geophyte Society?? Mark Mazer Hertford, NC USA Zone 7b-8 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Nov 19 18:45:51 2008 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: A Modest Proposal - NABS Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 15:45:45 -0800 Jim Waddick wrote, I propose a name change for the Pacific Bulb Society to 'The >North American Bulb Society'. I like "Pacific Bulb SOciety" not because I live on the Pacific coast, but because of the other meaning of "pacific." The calmer and more peaceful a plant society is, the happier its members should be; and perhaps the name will be a gentle reminder to those few who actively enjoy conflict. Also, we have a number of members outside North America, and a less geographically limiting name may make them feel more welcome. Jane McGary President-elect, Pacific Bulb Society From kellso@irvincentral.com Wed Nov 19 18:49:34 2008 Message-Id: <4924A5FF.7070704@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: A Modest Proposal - NABS Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:49:19 -0600 So, what you really mean Jane is: The Pacifist Bulb Society ;-) Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ Jane McGary wrote: > Jim Waddick wrote, > I propose a name change for the Pacific Bulb Society to 'The > >> North American Bulb Society'. >> > > I like "Pacific Bulb SOciety" not because I live on the Pacific > coast, but because of the other meaning of "pacific." The calmer and > more peaceful a plant society is, the happier its members should be; > and perhaps the name will be a gentle reminder to those few who > actively enjoy conflict. > > From dkramb@badbear.com Wed Nov 19 22:06:46 2008 Message-Id: <4924D44E.4030301@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: A Modest Proposal - NABS Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 22:06:54 -0500 I like Pacific Bulb Society since the original focus is on pacific-rim bulbs. Granted there's a lot of South African stuff in the BX, but I think PBS is still an apt name. From brutem@mcn.org Wed Nov 19 23:04:03 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20081119195158.02ff8398@mail.mcn.org> From: Bob Rutemoeller Subject: Modest Proposal and name change Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 20:03:43 -0800 Changing the name of the group is not very modest in terms of the load of work it would create. You would need to change your name with the IRS, bank accounts, and most of all with your list and wiki provider. Your most valuable archives and wiki information and links to it may well be lost for future searches. An awful lot of effort to make these thousands of changes would mean less time for work on new information and expanding the current images and cultural information resources. You don't have any "staff" to do this, just a very few very dedicated volunteers. Please think about this carefully. I particularly like Jane's sensible definition of "Pacific". Bob Rutemoeller brutem@mcn.org From honeybunny442@yahoo.com Wed Nov 19 23:21:03 2008 Message-Id: <133591.16814.qm@web56104.mail.re3.yahoo.com> From: Susan B Subject: A Modest Proposal - NABS Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 20:21:02 -0800 (PST) I hesitated to join the PBS email list because of the name, but was pleasantly surprised to find people from all over the world discussing all sorts of bulbous plants.  As a matter of fact, I knew about the PBS and the wiki for years before joining the list, mainly because I thought it was restricted to people on the West Coast. A different name might bring in more members, but I would leave any sort of location such as Pacific or North America out of the name. --- On Wed, 11/19/08, Dennis Kramb wrote: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Re: [pbs] A Modest Proposal - NABS To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Wednesday, November 19, 2008, 10:06 PM I like Pacific Bulb Society since the original focus is on pacific-rim bulbs. Granted there's a lot of South African stuff in the BX, but I think PBS is still an apt name. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From PJOSPUX@aol.com Thu Nov 20 01:59:21 2008 Message-Id: From: PJOSPUX@aol.com Subject: Modest Proposal and name change Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 01:59:15 EST In a message dated 20/11/2008 04:04:18 GMT Standard Time, brutem@mcn.org writes: Please think about this carefully. I particularly like Jane's sensible definition of "Pacific". I am in UK and the slightly recherche title has made me feel that I have joined a very special group and far from putting me off, adds a certain something. Paul From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Thu Nov 20 03:20:02 2008 Message-Id: <31859127.32742.1227169194595.JavaMail.www@wwinf1b21> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Family Information Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:19:54 +0100 (CET) For well over a century gardeners and botanists have coped with the ridiculously large family of Liliaceae.I wonder if the matter ever really will be truely resolved as depending on which set if genes you analyse you get different results just as in morphology different aspects reveal diferences and similitudes.Pehaps when ALL of the genetic sequences have been decoded in all organisms on super powerful computors we will then have a clearer idea.But something tells me that morphology will become fasionable again then! Science is as precise as human minds .It includes opinion and prejudice as well.It is not hard and fast but just interpretation of phenomena that sometimes can be tested by experimentation.How are we to test for family relations?Sometimes hybridisation reveals close genetic make-up. This is where hybridisers , plantspeople and gardeners are so useful to science,but sadly often their work is ignored by the geneticists.Simple observation can be helpful ,but then since the beginning of plant classification everyone assumed Lotus species to be close relatives of Nymphaea.But now we know them to be close relatives of Platanus and Proteaceae.Botanists had overlooked pollen morphology ! Genetics has revealed the importance of a morphology that the morphologists had ignored themselves.Surely these kind of facts underline the real value of genetic study.Had no one looked at pollen of living plants before and made a classification based on that? I am reminded of Huxley's exclamation upon hearing Darwin's theory of evolution that "of course it was so evident". We just have to be very zen and accept that all is in a state of flux... Evolution is a synonym of change after all folks! > Message du 19/11/08 17:16 > De : "Mary Sue Ittner" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] Family Information > > > Nhu asked about why Sternbergia was included in Alliaceae in the article > Jim noted about Sternbergia. That is because the Angiospermy Phylogeny > Group (2003) proposed sinking Amaryllidaceae and Agapanthaceae into > Alliaceae. You will note if you check the Kew monocot world check list for > family listings that this list uses the suggested alternatives so all the > genera that were once in Amaryllidaceae are now listed in Alliaceae. > Another example is the alternative placement by APG (2003) in Asparagaceae > of Agavaceae, Anthericaceae, Hyacinthaceae, and Themidaceae. If you look up > any genus in the Kew list that used to be in one of those families you now > find them listed in Asparagaceae. This makes for some giant families. It's > hard for me to think how Brodiaea, Lachenalia, Pasithea, Agave and > Asparagus are alike enough to all be in the same family. For those of us > who consider ourselves gardeners, not botanists, it means that there is no > real advantage in learning the different families and which genera are now > included in them since those definitions have become so broad. > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Thu Nov 20 03:35:23 2008 Message-Id: <19266271.33442.1227170121542.JavaMail.www@wwinf1b21> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Family Information Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:35:21 +0100 (CET) >" It's time for the botanists to pull their act together and start legislating, > instead of the current everyman-for-himself approach." > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada But then that would no longer be science and no longer allow correction when new data becomes available.Change is useful we ave to accept in the publics sphere that science is evolving and that is the major part of it's attraction.New discoveries are passionately interesting to all when all is said and done.I thoroughly enjoy the roller-coaster ride of botany especially these days of genetic decoding!( Keeping in mind the french proverbe which translates as "the more things change the more they stay the same"!!) From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Thu Nov 20 03:44:55 2008 Message-Id: <17280829.33876.1227170694661.JavaMail.www@wwinf1b21> From: Mark BROWN Subject: A Modest Proposal - NABS Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:44:54 +0100 (CET) > Message du 19/11/08 23:12 > De : "James Waddick" > A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] A Modest Proposal - NABS > > > Dear Friends, > Apologies first to a unnamed corespondent, whose message I > have edited mercilessly in section "1" below. > > I propose a name change for the Pacific Bulb Society to 'The > North American Bulb Society'. I think this is vey good idea. From m.ashley.cooper@comcast.net Thu Nov 20 04:03:37 2008 Message-Id: From: "M Ashley-Cooper" Subject: A Modest Proposal - NABS Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 04:03:07 -0500 A very simple way of a "name" change would merely be to register a new name such as "International Bulb Society" or "American Bulb Society" or whatever; make a simple web site in that name and then have a forwarding "Click here" box to our Pacific Bulb Society's web page. ~Myke Ashley-Cooper ----- Original Message ----- From: Kelly Irvin To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: 19 11, 2008 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] A Modest Proposal - NABS So, what you really mean Jane is: The Pacifist Bulb Society ;-) Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ Jane McGary wrote: > Jim Waddick wrote, > I propose a name change for the Pacific Bulb Society to 'The > >> North American Bulb Society'. >> > > I like "Pacific Bulb SOciety" not because I live on the Pacific > coast, but because of the other meaning of "pacific." The calmer and > more peaceful a plant society is, the happier its members should be; > and perhaps the name will be a gentle reminder to those few who > actively enjoy conflict. > > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From cvschalkwyk@lantic.net Thu Nov 20 04:12:46 2008 Message-Id: <62B3B8EE35794022B3483B1C2EB4ABB1@h4l> From: "Christiaan van Schalkwyk" Subject: A Modest Proposal/Family information Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:10:22 +0200 This post should not be taken seriously :) This is a "timely" request for a name change - with all the debate going on about the change of species and family names ! And I thought we were mostly hobyists and not taxonomists ! Changing all those labels to conform to new ideas . . . I'll rather stick with the old name. (Not being American any title with "american" it it sounds like as if I should not belong) >> Taxonomists in general are very highly opinionated with their "group". >> When they try to come together, there's usually a hot debate due to the >> highly opinionated foundation of the field. (Nhu Nguyen) From othonna@gmail.com Thu Nov 20 04:29:48 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260811200129o7f99c75ie2edf2623d845a72@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Modest Proposal and name change Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 01:29:45 -0800 What Bob says here makes good sense. Do the purported benefits of a name change outweigh the known and unknown downsides? Dylan Hannon On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Bob Rutemoeller wrote: > Changing the name of the group is not very modest in terms of the load of > work it would create. > > You would need to change your name with the IRS, bank accounts, and most of > all with your list and wiki provider. > > Your most valuable archives and wiki information and links to it may well > be lost for future searches. > An awful lot of effort to make these thousands of changes would mean less > time for work on new information and expanding the current images and > cultural information resources. > You don't have any "staff" to do this, just a very few very dedicated > volunteers. > > Please think about this carefully. I particularly like Jane's sensible > definition of "Pacific". > > > Bob Rutemoeller > brutem@mcn.org > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jshields@indy.net Thu Nov 20 08:28:44 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20081120082536.01d17250@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: A Modest Proposal - NABS Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:29:32 -0500 The name "International Bulb Society" is already in use; until 20 or 25 years ago, it was known as the American Plant Life Society. I.B.S. publishes the journal HERBERTIA on an occasional basis. See: http://www.bulbsociety.org/ The redirection suggestion would certainly work for whatever name(s) were adopted. Jim Shields APLS/IBS member since 1971 At 04:03 AM 11/20/2008 -0500, you wrote: >A very simple way of a "name" change would merely be to register a new name >such as "International Bulb Society" or "American Bulb Society" or whatever; >make a simple web site in that name and then have a forwarding "Click here" >box to our Pacific Bulb Society's web page. > >~Myke Ashley-Cooper > > ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it Thu Nov 20 08:41:54 2008 Message-Id: <34F59166-6110-4F1C-AD59-47DB2882DAA7@tiscali.it> From: studio pozzi taubert Subject: Modest Proposal and name change Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:41:33 +0100 Please keep it just as it is now. I was very happy to join the PBS and that name is something interesting, the friends who got it, also like it !!!! which would be the improvement by changing? do you want a WORLD BULB SOCIETY ??? or GALACTIC BULB SOCIETY ??? Il giorno 20/nov/08, alle ore 07:59, PJOSPUX@aol.com ha scritto: > > In a message dated 20/11/2008 04:04:18 GMT Standard Time, > brutem@mcn.org > writes: > > Please think about this carefully. I particularly like Jane's > sensible > definition of "Pacific". > > > > > I am in UK and the slightly recherche title has made me feel that > I have > joined a very special group and far from putting me off, adds a > certain > something. > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki Giorgio Pozzi Travedona (Varese) Italy zone 7/8 studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it From crinum@libero.it Thu Nov 20 09:58:56 2008 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Grossi" Subject: A Modest Proposal - NABS Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:58:54 +0100 Why to change? It could be worth if all bulbs associations lumped in one.... one name is like any other Alberto Italy From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Nov 20 14:08:42 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: A Modest ( but ill conceived and not thought out) Proposal Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:10:36 -0600 Dear Friends, I plead over work and distraction. I currently have a 40 cubic yard dumpster in the yard, I have to fill within a week. Not easy work, and more destruction in store. Been spending most days outside getting things ready and filling this thing. Anyway, I should have adhered to the MO State Motto (unofficial) "Show Me' or considered the adage: 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it" I obviously did not consider the huge amount of work a 'simple' name change entails. I see now it is a OK idea, but difficult to implement. Too difficult for the advantages to out weigh the difficulties. Think I'll keep my mouth shut , at least until I recover from the dumpster filling and related chores. Back to 'bulb talk'. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From tom@evolution-plants.com Thu Nov 20 14:37:31 2008 Message-Id: <6861DC15-8B64-47F5-B384-CC774F68DAEB@evolution-plants.com> From: Tom Mitchell Subject: A Modest Proposal - NABS Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:35:34 +0000 I joined the PBS a little over a year ago despite living, as I put it at the time, 'about as far from the Pacific Rim as you can get without leaving the planet', in a sleepy corner of England. I've benefited enormously from my membership and have made good friends via the Society. Partly as a result of these new found friendships I'm planning a plant hunting trip to the US next year - surely a modest victory for international relations brought about by bulbs! In addition to the opportunity the Society affords its members of being able to make contact with like-minded enthusiasts, the bulb exchange masterminded by Dell Sherk is a unique and outstandingly good value benefit as are the wiki and, not least, the collective depth and breadth of expertise of the small but committed membership, accessible to all via the list. Nothing about the Society, other than the balance of its current membership, is peculiarly North American. Its members' interests span the globe, as do their travels, friendships and correspondence. With great respect to Jim Waddick, I venture that it would be a seriously retrograde move to rename the Society the North American...anything. Surely the more international the membership becomes, the more interesting the Society will be for everyone, North American or not? If a name change is needed, how about just 'The Bulb Society' or 'The Geophyte Society'? Best wishes, Tom From kellso@irvincentral.com Thu Nov 20 15:27:27 2008 Message-Id: <4925C81F.9020201@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: A Modest Proposal - NABS Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:27:11 -0600 The potential difficulties from attempting a name change, besides the variety of opinions on what that name might become, do suggest this could be too big a hurdle to tackle right now, and maybe never. If a name like the PBS becomes standard in the flower bulb enthusiasts' world, then it's lack of inclusiveness by name won't really matter. If PBS ends up stagnating in membership, a look at the name amongst other things might be something to reconsider. I would hope the idea would remain on the table for folks, though. To me "Pacific" is more limiting than "North American", which is more limiting than "International" or such. And I don't so much see a limitation in it's more regional classification in the sense of "people" or "members", but in it's application to flower bulbs. Essentially, when I think of "Pacific", whether I'm correct or not, I think of hardiness zones 9 & 10, maybe 8. As soon as you expand to North America, you represent zones 4-10, which is, in my opinion, more representative of it's members, even if from another country. I really like the word "geophyte", but I would suggest that this description will only attract major students of flower bulb culture. Although no longer regionally restrictive in it's name, I believe it then becomes restrictive in the realm of "people". Most gardeners are not going to do internet searches on "geophyte". I don't want to push any idea one way or the other, myself. PBS is doing pretty good as it is, I think. I exited the IBS when most of the original members of PBS formed the new society, but I didn't join for quite awhile, believing it would only be about California bulbs, or bulbs popular in CA, like South African bulbs. It would be great if folks just mulled it all around in each's own mind every now and then. Another list of names I like is: The Flower Bulb Cooperative Society The Flower Bulb Enthusiast Society The Flower Bulb Enthusiast Cooperative The National Flower Bulb Society The Flower Bulb Culture Cooperative No matter how you slice it, just identifying the meaning of the society with the single word, "bulb", is not practical for society promotion, in my opinion. This was also true with the IBS, which happens to also be an acronym for a syndrome I'd much rather do without. PBS is going to be more familiar in folks minds with the public broadcasting system. Bottom line for me is, this is a solely (or almost so) internet based organization, which means you should cater to that internet as much as is reasonably possible. As PBS has been around several years now, it may be too late. As has been suggested, the change could interfere with visibility, although I know Google will correct search engine links if you do some things with forwarding or parking. With all of this said, you have to have the consensus AND the people power to make any changes, not one without the other. "What's in a name?" --Shakespeare Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ Tom Mitchell wrote: > I joined the PBS a little over a year ago despite living, as I put it > at the time, 'about as far from the Pacific Rim as you can get > without leaving the planet', in a sleepy corner of England. > From eez55@earthlink.net Thu Nov 20 15:27:57 2008 Message-Id: <10825998.1227212876453.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Eugene Zielinski Subject: A Modest ( but ill conceived and not thought out) Proposal Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:27:56 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Jim. Don't you dare keep your mouth shut! It's precisely questions and proposals like these that make us think about who we are and what we're doing as a society, and that can only be useful. I know I've learned a lot from this discussion, and I haven't had a chance to read all of the posts yet. Given the recent discussion on taxonomy and definition of species, etc., I was thinking of a name change to the "Specific" Bulb Society! Gene Eugene Zielinski Augusta, GA USA -----Original Message----- >From: James Waddick >Sent: Nov 20, 2008 2:10 PM >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: [pbs] A Modest ( but ill conceived and not thought out) Proposal > >Dear Friends, > I plead over work and distraction. I currently have a 40 >cubic yard dumpster in the yard, I have to fill within a week. Not >easy work, and more destruction in store. Been spending most days >outside getting things ready and filling this thing. > > > Think I'll keep my mouth shut , at least until I recover from >the dumpster filling and related chores. > > Back to 'bulb talk'. Best Jim W. >-- From jshields@indy.net Thu Nov 20 16:37:21 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20081120163308.01b90e40@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: A Modest Proposal - NABS Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:37:55 -0500 Hi all, Kelly is right about the limitations of the name "Pacific," but he is also wrong. The Pacific extends from Antarctica to Alaska, from British Columbia to Korea, from South America to New Guinea. It is in actual fact very inclusive, once we stop to think about it (which is what Jim Waddick's suggest has made us all do!) I think I quite like all the connotations of the name "Pacific Bulb Sociey." Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA), a good 2000 miles from the shores of the blue Pacific. ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From kellso@irvincentral.com Thu Nov 20 17:09:54 2008 Message-Id: <4925E024.2080900@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: A Modest Proposal - NABS Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:09:40 -0600 good point, Jim. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ J.E. Shields wrote: > Hi all, > > Kelly is right about the limitations of the name "Pacific," but he is also > wrong. From oothal@hotmail.com Thu Nov 20 19:57:43 2008 Message-Id: From: Justin Smith Subject: A Modest Proposal - PBS Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:57:42 -0600 Hi all, Not being a paid member I am hesitant to speak out, (and here it comes) but .... I use to work for a company years ago that was called Electronics Boutique. Some of you may have heard of it. The company had evolved away from selling electronic gear into selling video games and PC software. They had a dilemma. Management decided that their name did not convey who and what they were. It is very expensive and laborious to change names. Some of the pro's and con's have been mentioned. Their solution was very simple and brilliant. They changed their name to EB. It did not suggest their old business of electronic gear and their customer base was not effected at all. The best thing of all they didn't have to change anything. Most everyone here already calls Pacific Bulb Society, PBS anyway. Then again what do I know? I hope one day to save enough money to join the PBS but Mrs. Saunders keeps adding new seed. Join PBS or buy some new gladiolus seed. Oh decisions decisions.. ok it's a no brainer ... I just wonder how much longer I will have to wait for the new seed to arrive! Justin Woodville, TX zone 8b _________________________________________________________________ Access your email online and on the go with Windows Live Hotmail. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_access_112008 From kellso@irvincentral.com Thu Nov 20 21:39:58 2008 Message-Id: <49261F68.40607@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: A Modest Proposal - PBS Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:39:36 -0600 Hey, Justin. I have a Grandma who lives in Woodville. Great area!! Cheers to PBS. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ Justin Smith wrote: > Hi all, Not being a paid member I am hesitant to speak out, (and here it comes) but .... I use to work for a company years ago that was called Electronics Boutique. Some of you may have heard of it. The company had evolved away from selling electronic gear into selling video games and PC software. They had a dilemma. Management decided that their name did not convey who and what they were. It is very expensive and laborious to change names. Some of the pro's and con's have been mentioned. Their solution was very simple and brilliant. They changed their name to EB. It did not suggest their old business of electronic gear and their customer base was not effected at all. The best thing of all they didn't have to change anything. Most everyone here already calls Pacific Bulb Society, PBS anyway. > > Then again what do I know? > > I hope one day to save enough money to join the PBS but Mrs. Saunders keeps adding new seed. Join PBS or buy some new gladiolus seed. Oh decisions decisions.. ok it's a no brainer ... I just wonder how much longer I will have to wait for the new seed to arrive! > > > Justin > Woodville, TX > zone 8b > _________________________________________________________________ > Access your email online and on the go with Windows Live Hotmail. > http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_access_112008 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From Roth@ukzn.ac.za Fri Nov 21 01:03:21 2008 Message-Id: <49266B0C.2298.0024.0@ukzn.ac.za> From: "Rogan Roth" Subject: Modest Proposal and name change Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:02:56 +0200 Why fix what aint broke? In my personal experience changing a name for the sake of name changing is rarely successful - anyway 'Pacific Bulb Society' has a nice ring to it - exotic places, exotic plants... Please find our Email Disclaimer here: http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer/ From msittner@mcn.org Fri Nov 21 01:52:27 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20081120220743.035cc8c0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Modest Proposal and name change Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:49:42 -0800 I've written my thoughts to the Board and they will no doubt vote on this. And Jim has withdrawn his proposal so perhaps they won't even need to vote. However I found the discussion very interesting and appreciated that so many people felt comfortable with offering their opinions. Hopefully there will be a way to address the concerns of those people who don't like the name without changing it. We started the pbs wiki in early 2003 and since then it has grown to be a substantial resource on the Internet. It is frequently a first page hit on Google when you are searching for information about bulbs. I've not counted how many pictures we have on the wiki, but I have a list of file names and it is 75 pages long, double spaced and taking an average number of images for each one of those pages, I estimate we have 8400 images on the wiki. Each one is listed on one or more wiki pages with a url that starts with http://www.pacificbulbsociety/pbswiki/files If you changed the name of the group to something else logically you would retire the domain name and get a new one to reflect the new name and every single one of those urls for the pictures would have to be changed on the wiki pages if you wanted to continue to see them. There is no global way to do it. There would be other things that would need to be changed too. I estimate perhaps 9000 changes would need to be made. Not surprisingly, none of the current wiki helpers are willing to take this on. In addition a lot of other web pages link to the wiki. All of those links would be broken. In spite of the name a lot of people have found this group. The message for the pbs list says: "Welcome to an Internet discussion forum on bulbs, sponsored by the Pacific Bulb Society, for people around the world. Although bulbs (defined more broadly to include all geophytes) are the focus, we recognize that people who grow them probably grow other things too and will be talking about them from time to time." There isn't anything in this description that limits us geographically. But I'm happy to substitute this message with something else if someone wants to provide an improvement. The web site for the Pacific Bulb Society says: "The Pacific Bulb Society (PBS) was organized in Spring 2002 for the benefit of people who garden with bulbs. This includes both cold hardy and tender bulbs, and all the bulbs in between. By 'garden with' we also mean to include plants, shrubs, and even trees that we grow as companions to our bulbs. Membership in PBS is open to bulb lovers around the world. We welcome all to come forward to join us in the celebration of bulbs and in mastering the challenge of gardening with bulbs. " It may be time for the Pacific Bulb Society board to update and perhaps enlarge the mission message. Once again there is nothing in this description that makes this sound like a regional group. So perhaps Jane's take on the word "Pacific" is one we should adopt. People around the world may not know that in the United States pbs stands for public broadcasting system. The funny thing for me is that perhaps because I've written pbs wiki so many times, when I think of pbs now I think of our group instead. Long ago when searching for something about IBS I found irritable bowel syndrome which may be what non bulb enthusiasts think of when they see those initials so it all depends on your experience. I think it may not matter so much what we call our group. It has in it many friendly knowledgeable helpful people who share a common interest. I know my life has been enriched by the contacts I have made and I know so much more now than I did before I became a part of this group. Mary Sue From daffodil@xnet.co.nz Fri Nov 21 02:33:37 2008 Message-Id: <6E2B8660DB13403E9B2B56455FA9C210@WILLIAMPC> From: "Bill Dijk" Subject: A Modest Proposal - NABS Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:33:08 +1300 >The Pacific extends from Antarctica to Alaska, from British Columbia to >Korea, from South America to New Guinea. It is in actual fact very >inclusive, once we stop to think about it (which is what Jim Waddick's >suggest has made us all do!) Jim Shields The Pacific also extend to and include Australia and New Zealand. The whole world knows what the PBS stands for: expertise, outstanding value, and benefit to all keen bulb growers. Please don't change the name. Bill Dijk, New Zealand -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 5.6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 2371 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From HHeaven77@aol.com Fri Nov 21 08:22:18 2008 Message-Id: <8CB19F346152E9B-15A0-47C@webmail-dx07.sysops.aol.com> From: hheaven77@aol.com Subject: PBS BX Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:22:03 -0500 Greetings to all PBS Members, As I go out to water my fall/winter blooming bulbs today, I have a lot of gratitude to the contributing members who donated healthy plant material for the bulb exchange.? Several?Oxalis,?Albuca and Ornithogalums?have already bloomed and other bulbs and seed?are beginning to poke up through the soil.? It is?so interesting to?watch these plants grow and bloom.? Thank you for your?work with the BX and for your spirit of sharing. The wiki is wonderful too. Celeste Gornick Phoenix, AZ From davidxvictor@btinternet.com Fri Nov 21 14:44:21 2008 Message-Id: <20081121194419.4F72A4C015@lists.ibiblio.org> From: David Victor Subject: Leo's Mystery Strumaria Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:43:29 +0000 Dear Mary Sue, With apologies for the delay - I've been out of town and am just catching up with things. As you say, in her book, "Systematics of Hessea, Strumaria and Carpolyza", Snijman identifies two subspecies. The first, subspecies bulbifera, is found in the dolerite koppies around Nieuwoudtville. It is "densely clump-forming", as indicated in Dylan's note, and has "..a pronounced discoid stylar swelling with an irregular frilly rim". It is illustrated on page 112, which clearly indicates the nature of that rim. The left hand photograph of Leo's plant on the WIKI has that stylar construction and so fits the description. The other, subspecies discifera, is found to the east of Nieuwoudtville through to Middlepos, in "..scattered aggregations of solitary bulbs", again echoing Dylan. It has a disc-like stylar swelling "..but these are not as broad..and lack a prominent rim. Elsewhere the stylar swelling tends to be bulbiform.." Again, it is illustrated well on page 111. On the subject of Merendera versus Colchicum, Persson's view has been accepted by Kew - see http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/ Best regards, David Victor From arnold@nj.rr.com Fri Nov 21 21:40:39 2008 Message-Id: <492770E1.8070609@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: [Fwd: [Lilium] Edward McRae] Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:39:29 -0500 From the Lily group. A truly kind and generous man. Edward Austin McRae October 25, 1932 - November 16, 2008 Edward A. McRae was born October 25, 1932, in Echt, Aberdeenshire, Scotland, the son of William McRae and Barbara Jeannie Smith McRae. He was reared by his grandparents William Smith and Wilhelmina Ferguson Smith after his mother’s death in his infancy. After an apprenticeship at Fyvie Castle Gardens, he served in the Royal Air Force as a weather telegrapher in the Suez Canal. He then completed studies at the Edinburgh Royal Botanic Garden, remaining as botanical foreman for four years. In 1961 he joined Jan de Graaff’s Oregon Bulb Farms, in Sandy, Oregon, hybridizing lilies there for over 25 years. In 1988, he began hybridizing lilies at Van der Salm Bulb Farms, in Woodland, Washington. Upon retirement in 1995, Ed founded the Species Lily Preservation Group, centered at Lava Nurseries in Parkdale, Oregon. During his career, he authored numerous articles on lilies and the book Lilies: A Guide for Growers and Collectors. Ed was a founder of the Pacific Northwest Lily Society, deacon and elder of the Sandy Community Presbyterian Church, and past president of the Sandy Kiwanis. Ed became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 1986 but was always proud of his Scottish heritage. Ed and Judith L. Freeman were married in 1972; their daughter Catherine Joy McRae was born in 1974, and their son Andrew Edward McRae was born in 1980. Ed and Judith divorced in 1990 but remained friends and colleagues, and Judith continued to oversee Ed’s care as his health declined in recent years. Ed is survived by his son Andrew, his daughter Catherine Joy van der Salm, his son-in-law Ruud van der Salm, and his granddaughters Juliana van der Salm and Annelies van der Salm, all of Vancouver, Washington; his sister Pearl Ledingham and his brother Alaisdair McRae of Scotland, 3 nieces, 3 nephews, 5 great-nieces and 3 great-nephews. He was preceded in death by his mother Barbara, brother James, father William and brother-in-law Robert Ledingham.. The family is deeply appreciative of the wonderful care Ed received from Sofia Filip, Livia Gagea, and Tina Bogdocian at the Kay Family Home in Vancouver, Washington, where he moved after suffering a stroke in July 2006 They made it possible for Ed truly to enjoy his last years, surrounded by his family, his friends, and his lilies. A memorial service for Edward A. McRae will be held at 11:00 a.m., on Saturday, November 29, at Vancouver First United Methodist Church, 33rd & Main Streets, Vancouver, Washington. __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls ALL content is copyright and MAY NOT be used for any purpose without the express written permission of the author/photographer. Yahoo! Groups Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity * 1 New Members Visit Your Group Sell Online Start selling with our award-winning e-commerce tools. Yahoo! Groups Going Green Zone Learn to go green. Save energy. Save the planet. Moderator Central Yahoo! Groups Join and receive produce updates. . __,_._,___ From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Nov 22 12:39:07 2008 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: [Fwd: [Lilium] Edward McRae] Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 09:38:57 -0800 Eddie McRae was a wonderful gardener and a kind, lively man with a true dedication to the preservation of wild lilies as well as to hybridizing them. I had the privilege of assisting him in the writing of his book and got to know him and to visit his species lily nursery at Parkdale, Oregon. Every plant was an individual to him, and he remembered every lily he had ever seen. As the obituary forwarded by Arnold mentions, he was also a pillar of his community and very active in promoting the annual Scottish festival in Portland, the Highland Games. Public spaces in Sandy, the town where he lived most recently, display rich plantings thanks to Eddie and his helpers. When one of our great gardeners dies, we can reflect that their memorial lives on all around us, in the beautiful plants they grew and shared with all of us. Jane McGary At 06:39 PM 11/21/2008, you wrote: > From the Lily group. A truly kind and generous man. > > >Edward Austin McRae > >October 25, 1932 - November 16, 2008 > >Edward A. McRae was born October 25, 1932, in Echt, Aberdeenshire, >Scotland, the son of William McRae and Barbara Jeannie Smith McRae. He >was reared by his grandparents William Smith and Wilhelmina Ferguson >Smith after his mother's death in his infancy. After an apprenticeship >at Fyvie Castle Gardens, he served in the Royal Air Force as a weather >telegrapher in the Suez Canal. He then completed studies at the >Edinburgh Royal Botanic Garden, remaining as botanical foreman for four >years. In 1961 he joined Jan de Graaff's Oregon Bulb Farms, in Sandy, >Oregon, hybridizing lilies there for over 25 years. In 1988, he began >hybridizing lilies at Van der Salm Bulb Farms, in Woodland, Washington. >Upon retirement in 1995, Ed founded the Species Lily Preservation Group, >centered at Lava Nurseries in Parkdale, Oregon. During his career, he >authored numerous articles on lilies and the book Lilies: A Guide for >Growers and Collectors. From dkramb@badbear.com Sat Nov 22 12:46:08 2008 Message-Id: <49284570.9040608@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: PBS BX Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:46:24 -0500 What a sweet message! :-) I wish I could say the same, but I have only acquired a few things through the BX. And it seems I selected challenging and temperamental specimens. Very few of them have survived, and none of them have thrived. On the other hand, I've shared a couple items with friends in milder climates, and they have been ever so grateful ever since! The biggest success was Ennealophus euryandrus.... which went nuts in Texas, and fizzled out in Ohio... after just a few months. Even though I haven't shared your success, I do share your sentiment. The PBS & the wiki are absolutely wonderful, and I love the BX and all the generous PBS members. This is one of the best organizations I've ever belonged to ! Dennis in Ohio (where it dropped to 18'F last night) hheaven77@aol.com wrote: > Greetings to all PBS Members, > > As I go out to water my fall/winter blooming bulbs today, I have a lot of gratitude to the contributing members who donated healthy plant material for the bulb exchange.? Several?Oxalis,?Albuca and Ornithogalums?have already bloomed and other bulbs and seed?are beginning to poke up through the soil.? It is?so interesting to?watch these plants grow and bloom.? Thank you for your?work with the BX and for your spirit of sharing. > The wiki is wonderful too. > > Celeste Gornick > Phoenix, AZ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > From ron_redding@hotmail.com Sat Nov 22 14:19:23 2008 Message-Id: From: Ronald Redding Subject: PBS BX Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 05:19:21 +1000 "I do share your sentiment. The PBS & the wiki are absolutely wonderful, and I love the BX and all the generous PBS members. This is one of the best organizations I've ever belonged to !" HEAR!! HEAR!! I have bulbs that I have never seen offered anywhere else because of the generosity of members and the tireless commitment from the committee and in particular from Dell in relation to the BX & SX and for that I am truly grateful.Kind Regards and Best Wishes Ron Redding Hervey Bay Australia _________________________________________________________________ Take a summer road trip with Windows Live Hotmail. Multiple prizes and the ultimate dream beach house! http://www.ninemsn.com.au/hotmailroadtrip From dells@voicenet.com Sat Nov 22 17:06:30 2008 Message-Id: <20081122220629.C5CAE4C018@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 192 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:05:20 -0500 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 192" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Charles Hardman: A special offering: $2.00 per bulb. Limit: 2 bulbs of each kind: NOTE: plant immediately 1. Large bulbs of Tecophilaea cyanocrocus (type) 2. Large to medium bulbs of Tecophilaea cyanocrocus 'Leichtlinii' 3. Medium bulbs of Tecophilaea cyanocrocus 'Violacea' Charles says that he has found that, for good germination, a loose, acidic medium is necessary. He uses "Super Soil" for seed starting as well as for growing on to blooming. He said that Andrew Wilson told him that they grow well in the peaty soil of Ireland ! Another piece of advice from Charles: the bulbs do not like to be crowded and will not set seed if they are. SEED: 4. Tecophilaea cyanocrocus (type) 5. Tecophilaea cyanocrocus 'Leichtlinii' 6. Tecophilaea cyanocrocus 'Violacea' 7. Tecophilaea 'Hardman's Violet' large violet hybrid 8. Sparaxis hybs 9. Narcissus papyraceus 10. Gladiolus scullyi 11. Asclepias curassavica (Asclepidaceae, milkweed family) "Brilliant scarlet, orange, and gold flowers. Blooms while still young. Grows to 6 - 7 feet. Keeps blooming. Perennial here in Southern California." From Tom Mitchel: 12. Seed of Veratrum maackii var maackii 13. Seed of Veratrum album, very early flowering form 14. Seed of Galtonia viridiflora From David Ehrlich: 15. Seed of Zantedeschia remanii From Alberto Castillo: SEED: 16. Scilla greilhuberi (W). Very reliable in areas of mild winters, out of direct sun. In cold climates, very hardy. Several scapes per bulb. Does not offset, only propagated from seed. 17. Neopatersonia uitenhagensis (W). Cape bulb for full sun, frost free areas. Besides the "botanical interest" it flowers for a long period and produces several scapes per bulb. Flowers are white and pale green and attractive. BULBS: 18. Oxalis gracilis (W). This is a shortish form, compact, and extremely floriferous, we have it in flower for four months or more in winter. Full sun and gritty soil. 19. Oxalis purpurea 'Garnet' (W). This is the deepest purplish form of this species, spectacular. Full sun and gritty soil. Recently mentioned in the PBS forum as one of the most striking of all. 20. Oxalis compressa, double form (W). Apparently this form is unknown in the States. Flowers are very double, yellow with faint terracotta back to the petals, on tall stems. The foliage is compact, ground hugging and attractive. Some forms have a black center that makes them very striking. Most plants produce plain green leaves as the character of black center is recessive, but of course, from offsets they prove true to the variety. Both forms are here, in mix. From Lynn Makela: BULBS: 21. Hippeastrum 'Firey Bouquet' bulblets, few 22. Hippeastrum 'San Antonio Rose' , small bulbs 23. Scaly rhizomes of Achimenes 'Purple King' 24. Scaly rhizomes of Achimenes grandiflora 'Robert Dressler' 25. Scaly rhizomes of Eucodonia hybs Thank you, Charles, Tom, David, Alberto, and Lynn !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Nov 22 17:32:19 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Oca Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 16:31:21 -0600 Dear All, Still thinking Oxalis.... Does anyone grow 'Oca', Oxalis tuberosa ? Does it have any ornamental qualities ?, is it weedy? Is it even tasty ? I assume there are numerous edible cvs. Anyone have experience growing these either for edible tubers or for ornamental qualities? Are they 'easy'? Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From othonna@gmail.com Sat Nov 22 17:59:23 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260811221459t52ee7d3n2beef05dec8054ea@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Oca Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:59:22 -0800 Jim, My limited experience with this plant, including a few current specimens, indicates most importantly that it is a cool grower that will probably fail without cool night temps year round. "Cool" in this case is approx. 60*F at night and oca probably would like it even cooler, and of course cooler overall-- no hot days. Probably on the Web you can find out more about what elevations it is cultivated at in the Andes. If you can grow the perennial tropaeolums, your chances are probably good in succeeding with oca. When happy it can grow and multiply well, though it is more interesting than attractive. Dylan 2008/11/22 James Waddick > Dear All, > Still thinking Oxalis.... > > Does anyone grow 'Oca', Oxalis tuberosa ? Does it have any > ornamental qualities ?, is it weedy? Is it even tasty ? > > I assume there are numerous edible cvs. Anyone have > experience growing these either for edible tubers or for ornamental > qualities? > > Are they 'easy'? Thanks Jim W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From drpaulbear@xtra.co.nz Sat Nov 22 18:07:33 2008 Message-Id: <468854FF4780442A81B6082E986EBE96@Pauls> From: Subject: Oca Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 12:07:35 +1300 yes and I have a friend that grows them commercially .they prefer an acid soil and they are easy From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Sat Nov 22 18:27:36 2008 Message-Id: <11014985.1227396455325.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: Pacific BX 192 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:27:34 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Hi Dell: Please put me on the list for items: 4, 5, 6, 7, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 Thank you and best regards. Mark -----Original Message----- >From: Dell Sherk >Sent: Nov 22, 2008 5:05 PM >To: 'Adam Fikso' , 'c' , DavBouch5@aol.com, Douglas Westfall , General PBS forum , John Lonsdale , 'Macfarlane' , 'Mark' , 'Mark Wilcox' , Pat Colville , The Masterson Family >Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 192 > >Dear All, > > The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. > > If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY >at . Include "BX 192" in the subject line. > > Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not >specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, >too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, >first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, >included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) >(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you >should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and >first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. > > PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON >EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. > > Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not >members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO >MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage >of future offers such as this. Go to our website: >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... > > If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors >will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), >please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: > >Dell Sherk >6832 Phillips Mill Rd. >New Hope, PA, 18938 >USA > > I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. >IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! > >From Charles Hardman: > >A special offering: $2.00 per bulb. Limit: 2 bulbs of each kind: > >NOTE: plant immediately > >1. Large bulbs of Tecophilaea cyanocrocus (type) > >2. Large to medium bulbs of Tecophilaea cyanocrocus 'Leichtlinii' > >3. Medium bulbs of Tecophilaea cyanocrocus 'Violacea' > >Charles says that he has found that, for good germination, a loose, acidic >medium is necessary. He uses "Super Soil" for seed starting as well as for >growing on to blooming. He said that Andrew Wilson told him that they grow >well in the peaty soil of Ireland ! Another piece of advice from Charles: >the bulbs do not like to be crowded and will not set seed if they are. > >SEED: > >4. Tecophilaea cyanocrocus (type) > >5. Tecophilaea cyanocrocus 'Leichtlinii' > >6. Tecophilaea cyanocrocus 'Violacea' > >7. Tecophilaea 'Hardman's Violet' large violet hybrid > >8. Sparaxis hybs > >9. Narcissus papyraceus > >10. Gladiolus scullyi > >11. Asclepias curassavica (Asclepidaceae, milkweed family) "Brilliant >scarlet, orange, and gold flowers. Blooms while still young. Grows to 6 - 7 >feet. Keeps blooming. Perennial here in Southern California." > >From Tom Mitchel: > >12. Seed of Veratrum maackii var maackii >13. Seed of Veratrum album, very early flowering form >14. Seed of Galtonia viridiflora > >From David Ehrlich: > >15. Seed of Zantedeschia remanii > >From Alberto Castillo: > >SEED: > >16. Scilla greilhuberi (W). Very reliable in areas of mild winters, out of >direct sun. In cold climates, very hardy. Several scapes per bulb. Does not >offset, only propagated from seed. > >17. Neopatersonia uitenhagensis (W). Cape bulb for full sun, frost free >areas. Besides the "botanical interest" it flowers for a long period and >produces several scapes per bulb. Flowers are white and pale green and >attractive. > >BULBS: > >18. Oxalis gracilis (W). This is a shortish form, compact, and extremely >floriferous, we have it in flower for four months or more in winter. Full >sun and gritty soil. > >19. Oxalis purpurea 'Garnet' (W). This is the deepest purplish form of this >species, spectacular. Full sun and gritty soil. Recently mentioned in the >PBS forum as one of the most striking of all. > >20. Oxalis compressa, double form (W). Apparently this form is unknown in >the States. Flowers are very double, yellow with faint terracotta back to >the petals, on tall stems. The foliage is compact, ground hugging and >attractive. Some forms have a black center that makes them very striking. >Most plants produce plain green leaves as the character of black center is >recessive, but of course, from offsets they prove true to the variety. Both >forms are here, in mix. > >From Lynn Makela: > >BULBS: > >21. Hippeastrum 'Firey Bouquet' bulblets, few > >22. Hippeastrum 'San Antonio Rose' , small bulbs > >23. Scaly rhizomes of Achimenes 'Purple King' > >24. Scaly rhizomes of Achimenes grandiflora 'Robert Dressler' > >25. Scaly rhizomes of Eucodonia hybs > >Thank you, Charles, Tom, David, Alberto, and Lynn !! > >Best wishes, >Dell > >Dell Sherk, PBS BX > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From lizwat@earthlink.net Sat Nov 22 18:45:37 2008 Message-Id: <492899AB.8090106@earthlink.net> From: Liz Waterman Subject: Oca Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 15:45:47 -0800 Hi, I have grown Oca for years. Originally I grew for food; it's ok but not particularly tasty. Here in the SF bay area the large produce markets sell in bulk. One called it pink potato. They are very easy to grow outside here and they pretty much stay where planted. Squirrels occasionally move them. Liz W James Waddick wrote: > Dear All, > Still thinking Oxalis.... > > Does anyone grow 'Oca', Oxalis tuberosa ? Does it have any > ornamental qualities ?, is it weedy? Is it even tasty ? > > I assume there are numerous edible cvs. Anyone have > experience growing these either for edible tubers or for ornamental > qualities? > > Are they 'easy'? Thanks Jim W. > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Nov 22 23:28:22 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Oca Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 21:59:41 -0600 Friends, I was surprised that it wasn't pictured in the PBS wiki. I guess the plants are less than ornamental. From Google images, there seem to be a range of tuber colors and shapes. Are these really all the same species? Apparently a New Zealand cv called 'Red' or "Pink" Oca has close to round tubers and a waxy shine to them. Seems to be a dominant edible cv. Is this true. Other forms are rounded ovals, pointed 'carrot' shapes and in colors including yellow, orange and tan. I wonder how much variety there is in the plants from these different tubers. Liz, is Oca a year round crop or more seasonal? Thanks all. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From dells@voicenet.com Sun Nov 23 08:21:35 2008 Message-Id: <20081123132134.D052A4C018@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: BX 192 CLOSED Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 08:21:19 -0500 Wow! 46 orders in 12 hours. Must be a new record. Packages should go out later this week. Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From dells@voicenet.com Sun Nov 23 10:07:00 2008 Message-Id: <20081123150653.437CE4C016@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 192 Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 10:04:47 -0500 I have received your order. Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Mark Mazer Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 6:28 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 192 Hi Dell: Please put me on the list for items: 4, 5, 6, 7, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 Thank you and best regards. Mark -----Original Message----- >From: Dell Sherk >Sent: Nov 22, 2008 5:05 PM >To: 'Adam Fikso' , 'c' , DavBouch5@aol.com, Douglas Westfall , General PBS forum , John Lonsdale , 'Macfarlane' , 'Mark' , 'Mark Wilcox' , Pat Colville , The Masterson Family >Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 192 > >Dear All, > > The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. > > If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY >at . Include "BX 192" in the subject line. > > Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not >specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, >too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, >first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, >included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) >(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you >should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and >first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. > > PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON >EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. > > Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not >members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO >MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage >of future offers such as this. Go to our website: >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... > > If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors >will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), >please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: > >Dell Sherk >6832 Phillips Mill Rd. >New Hope, PA, 18938 >USA > > I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. >IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! > >From Charles Hardman: > >A special offering: $2.00 per bulb. Limit: 2 bulbs of each kind: > >NOTE: plant immediately > >1. Large bulbs of Tecophilaea cyanocrocus (type) > >2. Large to medium bulbs of Tecophilaea cyanocrocus 'Leichtlinii' > >3. Medium bulbs of Tecophilaea cyanocrocus 'Violacea' > >Charles says that he has found that, for good germination, a loose, acidic >medium is necessary. He uses "Super Soil" for seed starting as well as for >growing on to blooming. He said that Andrew Wilson told him that they grow >well in the peaty soil of Ireland ! Another piece of advice from Charles: >the bulbs do not like to be crowded and will not set seed if they are. > >SEED: > >4. Tecophilaea cyanocrocus (type) > >5. Tecophilaea cyanocrocus 'Leichtlinii' > >6. Tecophilaea cyanocrocus 'Violacea' > >7. Tecophilaea 'Hardman's Violet' large violet hybrid > >8. Sparaxis hybs > >9. Narcissus papyraceus > >10. Gladiolus scullyi > >11. Asclepias curassavica (Asclepidaceae, milkweed family) "Brilliant >scarlet, orange, and gold flowers. Blooms while still young. Grows to 6 - 7 >feet. Keeps blooming. Perennial here in Southern California." > >From Tom Mitchel: > >12. Seed of Veratrum maackii var maackii >13. Seed of Veratrum album, very early flowering form >14. Seed of Galtonia viridiflora > >From David Ehrlich: > >15. Seed of Zantedeschia remanii > >From Alberto Castillo: > >SEED: > >16. Scilla greilhuberi (W). Very reliable in areas of mild winters, out of >direct sun. In cold climates, very hardy. Several scapes per bulb. Does not >offset, only propagated from seed. > >17. Neopatersonia uitenhagensis (W). Cape bulb for full sun, frost free >areas. Besides the "botanical interest" it flowers for a long period and >produces several scapes per bulb. Flowers are white and pale green and >attractive. > >BULBS: > >18. Oxalis gracilis (W). This is a shortish form, compact, and extremely >floriferous, we have it in flower for four months or more in winter. Full >sun and gritty soil. > >19. Oxalis purpurea 'Garnet' (W). This is the deepest purplish form of this >species, spectacular. Full sun and gritty soil. Recently mentioned in the >PBS forum as one of the most striking of all. > >20. Oxalis compressa, double form (W). Apparently this form is unknown in >the States. Flowers are very double, yellow with faint terracotta back to >the petals, on tall stems. The foliage is compact, ground hugging and >attractive. Some forms have a black center that makes them very striking. >Most plants produce plain green leaves as the character of black center is >recessive, but of course, from offsets they prove true to the variety. Both >forms are here, in mix. > >From Lynn Makela: > >BULBS: > >21. Hippeastrum 'Firey Bouquet' bulblets, few > >22. Hippeastrum 'San Antonio Rose' , small bulbs > >23. Scaly rhizomes of Achimenes 'Purple King' > >24. Scaly rhizomes of Achimenes grandiflora 'Robert Dressler' > >25. Scaly rhizomes of Eucodonia hybs > >Thank you, Charles, Tom, David, Alberto, and Lynn !! > >Best wishes, >Dell > >Dell Sherk, PBS BX > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From lizwat@earthlink.net Sun Nov 23 23:47:36 2008 Message-Id: <492A31E6.3070502@earthlink.net> From: Liz Waterman Subject: Oca Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:47:34 -0800 Oca seems to be a once a year crop sort of like potatoes and can be harvested after the tops die down. They keep for 2 or more months in the ground or as song as it takes them to sprout again. I've heard they taste better if allowed to sit in the sun a few days before eating. There doesn't seem to be much sun when they are harvested. You can learn more by reading a section in "Lost Crops of the Incas" online. Oca: http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=1398&page=83 It's a fun book to read. CRFG(California Rare Fruit Growers) may have an information sheet. They aren't in the market now but may show up next month. Liz James Waddick wrote: > Friends, > I was surprised that it wasn't pictured in the PBS wiki. I > guess the plants are less than ornamental. > From Google images, there seem to be a range of tuber colors > and shapes. Are these really all the same species? > > Apparently a New Zealand cv called 'Red' or "Pink" Oca has > close to round tubers and a waxy shine to them. Seems to be a > dominant edible cv. Is this true. > > Other forms are rounded ovals, pointed 'carrot' shapes and in > colors including yellow, orange and tan. > > I wonder how much variety there is in the plants from these > different tubers. > > Liz, is Oca a year round crop or more seasonal? > > Thanks all. Jim W. > From telosrarebulbs@suddenlink.net Mon Nov 24 10:34:56 2008 Message-Id: From: "Telos Rare Bulbs" Subject: Supersoil Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 07:32:55 -0800 I have to comment on the recommendation for starting Tecophilaea seeds in Supersoil. I used to use Supersoil, and it was a great product, steam sterilized and mostly finely ground fir bark. Good stuff. Then the company was bought and everything changed. It is no longer sterilized, and I won't say what it looks like, since I don't want to get sued. It sure doesn't look like ground fir bark. I don't use it any more and I would never recommend it, even for mature bulbs. For seed starting I now use a seed starting mix from McConkey. It is very finely ground peat moss with some vermiculite and perlite, plus a wetting agent and some dolomite to adjust the pH. I add more perlite, since for some species it is a bit too moisture retentive. It is very expensive, especially with shipping. For small batches of seed you can make your own seed starting mix by buying sphagnum peat moss and grinding it in a food processor or blender. You can add a wetting agent, although it's not really necessary for small pots, plus about 30% perlite for bulb seeds, and about a quarter teaspoon of dolomitic lime for a quart of mix to adjust the pH. The mix will be sterile, very important if you are sowing precious seed like Tecophialaea. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs www.telosrarebulbs.com www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com From othonna@gmail.com Mon Nov 24 11:21:04 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260811240821q357a517apb23fa5254423e6c8@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Supersoil Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 08:21:02 -0800 The Supersoil change came some time ago and I've heard many growers repeat what Diana says here. All products are subject to change. Even a favorite plastic container can retain the same catalogue number but if they change the die to save material you have a thinner, less useful pot. For seed mixes, I use an organic base, often peat-based but there are other options. This component mostly provides moisture-retention and "fluffs up" the mix to prevent compaction of the roots. Perlite also improves aeration and prevents sogginess and compaction. Finally, I add sand (about 25%) and this is very helpful for several reasons: it allows easier re-wetting when mix is dry, it adds some weight/firmness and provides insulation when bulbs are dormant. Otherwise a peat-based or organic-based mix has a tendency to shrink into a ball when very dry (as in dormancy) and makes for more work overall. When seedling pots are on the dry side during repotting, a sandy mix makes separation of roots easier, and sand has an overall effect of extending the life of the mix. Sand is also inert and so never sours or degrades; most forms of it are also very cheap. Dylan Hannon Dylan Hannon Rare Bulbs On 24/11/2008, Telos Rare Bulbs wrote: > I have to comment on the recommendation for starting Tecophilaea seeds in > Supersoil. > > I used to use Supersoil, and it was a great product, steam sterilized and > mostly finely ground fir bark. Good stuff. Then the company was bought and > everything changed. It is no longer sterilized, and I won't say what it > looks like, since I don't want to get sued. It sure doesn't look like > ground fir bark. I don't use it any more and I would never recommend it, > even for mature bulbs. > > For seed starting I now use a seed starting mix from McConkey. It is very > finely ground peat moss with some vermiculite and perlite, plus a wetting > agent and some dolomite to adjust the pH. I add more perlite, since for > some species it is a bit too moisture retentive. It is very expensive, > especially with shipping. For small batches of seed you can make your own > seed starting mix by buying sphagnum peat moss and grinding it in a food > processor or blender. You can add a wetting agent, although it's not really > necessary for small pots, plus about 30% perlite for bulb seeds, and about a > quarter teaspoon of dolomitic lime for a quart of mix to adjust the pH. The > mix will be sterile, very important if you are sowing precious seed like > Tecophialaea. > > Diana > Telos Rare Bulbs > www.telosrarebulbs.com > www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Nov 24 12:57:42 2008 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Tecophilaea from seed, was Supersoil Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 09:41:08 -0800 I grow Tecophilaea cyanocrocus most years from seeds harvested from my mature plants. I use my normal seed mix, which is equal parts sharp sand, screened peat, and ground pumice. I used to put granite grit on top but when I ran out of it a couple of years ago, I tried pumice and found it works just as well, though it can develop algae after a year or two. I don't sterilize the seed soil because I feel that as soon as it gets into the natural environment (i.e., as soon as it's watered and placed on my deck or in the solarium), it is no longer sterile anyway. I don't reuse the soil for other seeds, though, I mix it fresh each fall. I would note about Tecophilaea that it germinates in winter, but the seedlings tend to stretch out when kept under glass, as they have to be here. Nonetheless, almost all produce bulbs that can be identified and potted on the first year, after which I put them in the bulb frame, where the higher light level and, perhaps, the colder winter, keep them compact and in a normal growing cycle. I've raised hundreds of them this way. I don't hand-pollinate the flowers, but there are so many different pollinators here in spring that almost every flower sets seed. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From pameladaz@msn.com Mon Nov 24 15:12:55 2008 Message-Id: From: "Pamela Slate" Subject: Supersoil Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 13:12:58 -0700 I've spoken with our Supersoil distributor several times over the last couple years about the ownership change and overall quality decline of the product. When Scott bought it, they moved their main location to a place here called Maricopa, the original formula was supposed to be used but wasn't and all kinds of detritus ended up in the bags, including mushrooms and big "chunks of things." Customers were so unhappy that some discontinued doing business altogether with the distributor. Scott decided to clean up its act and started using the original formula - when they changed bags to the lighter tan ones. So I'm told if you see the old dark brown bags in garden stores, pass. According to our distributor, the new product is the old product and he has had no further complaints. From this same distributor, I get a bale of Sunshine Mix and add at least 30% pumice and sometimes loamy sand and sometimes compost, depending. It contains some peat but works beautifully and drainage couldn't be better. I think SM #2 is a bit better for bulbs. Big shipping $$, however, if your local nurseries don't stock it. And I know pumice is not always easy to come by either. Nice points about sand, Dylan. Pam Pamela Slate P.O. Box 5134 Carefree AZ 85377 From toadlily@olywa.net Mon Nov 24 15:18:05 2008 Message-Id: <492B0BFC.9040703@olywa.net> From: Laura & Dave Subject: Tecophilaea questions & soil comment (coir and coffee chaff) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:18:04 -0800 Just a quick question or two regarding Tecophilaea timing; sowing, sprouting and re-emergence of young bulbs. From the posts, I'm guessing that seed should be sown immediately? Would delaying until there is more light available (say, a month or two after the winter solstice) be of benefit, if the seeds will remain viable that long? Here, at 47º N. latitude, the sun is low on the horizon, and seldom seen due to clouds. I've just watered a pot of three year old seedlings, but seem to remember that they took their own sweet time showing up last year. Should I be waiting longer to water them; more like the timing of a snow melt species? I've been using coir in place of peat moss in my soil mixes, and have liked the results. I don't think it retains quite as much water, but it is easier to rewet, doesn't shrink/expand as much, and doesn't need a pH adjustment. I've also gotten a large supply of coffee chaff (not grounds, but the seed coat that comes loose during roasting ... a byproduct, often available for the asking), but haven't used any yet. It's supposed to be an excellent soil amendment, slow to break down and with a good balance of nutrients. I have been wanting to try this in a seed mix, but need a large batch of seed that I'm willing to have not germinate. And I'm still trying to catch up on planting more valuable seed ... Thanks in advance! Dave Brastow From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Nov 24 17:24:16 2008 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Tecophilaea questions & soil comment (coir and coffee chaff) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 14:24:07 -0800 Dave asked, At 12:18 PM 11/24/2008, you wrote: > Just a quick question or two regarding Tecophilaea timing; sowing, >sprouting and re-emergence of young bulbs. From the posts, I'm guessing >that seed should be sown immediately? Would delaying until there is >more light available (say, a month or two after the winter solstice) be >of benefit, if the seeds will remain viable that long? I believe it should be sown in fall like seed of most winter-to-spring growing bulbs. The seeds, however, probably can remain viable for long periods in dry storage, since they come from a semi-arid region with unpredictable moisture from year to year. >I've just watered a pot of three year old seedlings, but seem to >remember that they took their own sweet time showing up last year. >Should I be waiting longer to water them; more like the timing of a snow >melt species? I always start watering my tecophilaeas in the bulb frame in fall. They do not emerge until spring, later than many bulbs. Presumably they start some root growth earlier than the leaves and flowers come. Tecophilaea cyanocrocus here flowers with Fritillaria pudica and Lewisia brachycalyx, a very attractive combination. > I've also gotten a large supply of coffee chaff (not grounds, but the >seed coat that comes loose during roasting ... a byproduct, often >available for the asking), but haven't used any yet. It's supposed to >be an excellent soil amendment, slow to break down and with a good >balance of nutrients. I have been wanting to try this in a seed mix, >but need a large batch of seed that I'm willing to have not germinate. >And I'm still trying to catch up on planting more valuable seed ... I would not try this product in a seed mix, especially since there are tried and true organic materials that work well, are cheap and readily available. As I observed a while back, I note that coffee grounds appear to inhibit germination of annual weeds when applied to a surface. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From totototo@telus.net Mon Nov 24 17:34:46 2008 Message-Id: <492ABB83.13244.10E8F1@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Supersoil Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 14:34:43 -0800 Interesting to read about the decline and fall of Supersoil. Some very green-thumbed growers here use commercial Sunshine Mix, peat based, but I prefer to mix my own starting with "Island's Finest Top Soil." This raw material is fairly cheap, typically $2 or $3 for a 30-liter bag. It appears to be excavated from an old lake bed, so it's a natural mixture of peaty materials and silt. Heretofore, there's always been enough rough twiggage in it to demand that it be screened before use, but this year no such problem. My target is a mix that is close to the famous John Innes potting compost without getting involved in the arcane intricacies of Cornish silver sand, stacked turves, and hoof-and-horn meal. Here's the exact recipe I use these days: 30 liters of soil 16 liters of horticultural perlite 150 g of organic 4-6-8 vegetable fertilizer 170 g of lime 7 g of fritted trace elements Notes: 1. If the perlite bag doesn't say "horticultural", it may contain soluble fluorides. These won't cause a problem if you are pouring the stuff into the wall cavities of your house as insulation, but your plants will take considerable exception. My original recipe (which I may have posted here before) only called for 6 liters of perlite, but I found the result was somewhat too peaty and airless for comfort. The increased quantity is simply based on "how the stuff feels" when you rub it between the palms of your hands. 2. I use an organic fertilizer in the belief that it will break down more slowly than a fertilizer compounded primarily from soluble salts. 3. Lime. I use ground limestone or agricultural lime, not dolomite. The purpose of the lime is to bring the pH of the finished product up to about 6.5; dolomite is too insoluble to do this. I recommend to those who also mix their own soils that they buy some pH testing paper and use it to verify the pH of their final product. The lake bed material I start with has a pH around 4, very acid, so requires a surprising amount of lime to bring it up to near neutrality. 4. Fritted trace elements. This takes care of any trace element deficiencies but is little enough it won't overdo any of them. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=48.4676,-123.3262&ll=48.4676,-123.3262&z=14 From mmattus@charter.net Mon Nov 24 18:25:07 2008 Message-Id: From: MATT MATTUS Subject: A Modest Proposal - NABS Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 18:42:27 -0500 I suppose this is more about branding, than it is identity. This is a bit like re-branding an airline which has decided that the world is much bigger. Devoted passengers are not alienated, and new passengers never are the wiser. I remember when I first found this group, I though, "is this only for people on the Pacific Coast of the US? " " Is is something I should join since I live on the Atlantic coast of the US?" "Do they meet regularly or only on-line?" Still, as a casual visitor ( I still need to actually join again, and I keep forgetting because of the regional name, I think), I do wonder if new members would have an issue with a name and identity change.....I think not. As someone who professionally does intellectual property development and identity recreations for a living, I vote for a name that maybe doesn't have the obvious 'bulb' and 'regional' limitors in the title. So, for what it is worth, I suggest the more unusual, and perhaps more ownable and memorable: 1. Geobulb - The International Society for Geophytic Plants -The Society for the conservation and cultivation of bulbs and geophytes. 2. The World Geophyte Society 3. The Global Geophyte Society 4. The International Geophyte Society 5. The Society for Geophytic Plants I am working on a similar visual prototyping for NARGS ( which I will be posting this week on my blog ( exploraculture.blogspot.com), just having some fun, but also, perhaps helping others to see the beyond the next few years. Perhaps I will 'visually prototype what this group could possible look like too,10, 15 years from now. Regardless, I don't believe that a name change is a big deal at all, a new URL, and perhaps that is it. Maybe a new bank account. Tags, searches, and new members would not be affected, and nothing could keep any of us from finding this group even if it was called the PFFBG ( the Pretty Flowers From Bulbs Group ( or the International Paperwhite Society). At least we are lively! ( and yes, I must go actually join now! Name change or not!). Respectively, Matt Mattus Zone 5b Worcester, Massachusetts USA On 11/19/08 6:45 PM, "Jane McGary" wrote: > Jim Waddick wrote, > I propose a name change for the Pacific Bulb Society to 'The >> North American Bulb Society'. > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From leo@possi.org Tue Nov 25 17:49:25 2008 Message-Id: <20318093fd26e39164d3d43e25233aac.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: A Modest Proposal - NABS Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:49:23 -0800 (PST) Just leave the name alone. It doesn't matter at all what the organization is called. Anybody stumbling across it will read some of the material and decide to join or not based on the quality of content, not the name. The immediately preceding messages are all about the extensive taxonomic changes continually demanded by the ongoing need to produce new PhDs. And the general tone of the chatter seemed to be that name changes are really quite unrewarding except to journal publishers. After The Big One happens to California, will we need to change the name to The North American And New Western Island That Was Formerly California West Of The San Andreas Fault Bulb Society (TNAANWITWFCWOTSAFBS)? Besides, some of our most informative and interesting contributors are from South America, Europe and that island group off western Europe. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From msittner@mcn.org Tue Nov 25 19:25:57 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20081125154045.03f91148@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Iris family book/Goldblatt and Manning Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:19:25 -0800 Hi, I ordered The Iris Family: Natural History and Classification by Peter Goldblatt and John C. Manning when Timber Press had their discount sale and free shipping even though it wasn't published yet. It arrived about a week ago and I wanted all of you who are interested in such things to know that it is now available. As they say in the preface "taxonomy is truly an unending synthesis, and this volume is just one more step in that process." So this isn't the end of the changes, but they hope this book will be a new baseline. They have set the number of genera at 66 and the species at around 2025. Some genera have been combined and some new ones introduced. Here is a summary: subfamily Isophysidoideae -- Isophysis subfamily Patersonioideae -- Patersonia subfamily Geosiridoideae -- Geosiris subfamily Aristeoideae -- Aristea subfamily Nivenioideae -- Nivienia, Klattia, Witsenia subfamily Crocoideae, broken into five tribes which I won't list -- Tritoniopsis, Cyanixia, Zygotritonia, Savannosiphon, Lapeirousia, Pillansia, Thereianthus, Micranthus, Watsonia, Gladiolus, Melasphaerula, Crocosmia, Devia, Freesia, Xenoscapa, Radinosiphon, Romulea, Afrocrocus, Syringodea, Crocus, Geissorhiza, Hesperantha, Babiana, Chasmanthe, Sparaxis, Duthieastrum, Tritonia, Ixia, Dierama subfamily Iridoideae broken into five tribes which I won't list -- Diplarrena, Iris, Dietes, Bobartia, Ferraria, Moraea, Libertia, Orthrosanthus, Olsynium, Sisyrinchium, Solenomelus, Tapeinia, Trimezia, Pseudotrimezia, Neomarica, Alophia, Calydorea, Cipura, Cobana, Cypella, Eleutherine, Ennealophus, Gelasine, Herbertia, Hesperoxiphion, Larentia, Mastigostyla, Nemastylis, Salpingostylis, Tigridia Hopefully I've spelled those all correctly. They have keys for Nivenioideae, Crocoideae, and Iridoideae which must have been quite an undertaking. This isn't a gardening book, but a natural history and classification book as the title explains. There are some nice color photos in the middle, but as would be expected from the background of the authors these are weighted towards South African species. We don't have illustrations of or even descriptions of many of these genera on the wiki although Lee Poulsen added some of them to the Photographs and Information table awaiting someone to make a page for them. I suppose eventually we'll get some of the cross references added for those genera that have departed like Rigidella (now in Tigridia). Anyone who has the book and wants to write about the genera in the Iris family that have a ? next to them in the table based on this information is welcome to do so. I'm always amused when someone comments with surprise that something isn't on the wiki that they think should be. It takes a volunteer who wants to share the information with others and who is willing to take the time to add it. Mary Sue From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Nov 26 09:56:05 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Ullucus tuberosus Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 08:57:52 -0600 Friends, As a diversion from off list discussions of Oca (Oxalis tuberosus), I came across Ullucus tuberosus. One web site said this was 2nd to potato as an Andean food source. Anyone know or grow this one? Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From idavide@sbcglobal.net Wed Nov 26 14:56:29 2008 Message-Id: <422260.81070.qm@web81001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: coffee parchmet Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:56:27 -0800 (PST) Laura & Dave ask whether coffee chaff could replace coir.  As a person who roasts his coffee every morining, I am quite familiar with chaff, although I don't use it.  Unlike coir, it gets very wet, very easily, and it has very little substance, so I don't think it will loosen your mix at all: more likely, just the opposite.  About its value otherwise, I know very little. David Ehrlich From opbungalow@gmail.com Wed Nov 26 16:18:32 2008 Message-Id: <150371710811261318q42e43094q40627a8629932f8b@mail.gmail.com> From: "David Maxwell" Subject: One Man's Pernicious Weed is another's Oxalis Boweii Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:18:28 -0800 Hi All, well, with the rains in Northern California has come everyone's favorite leisure time; pulling weeds. Among the 'weeds' I've been trying to suppress with sheets of plastic & mulch are what appear to be Oxalis Boweii (dark pink fluted flowers with very large, thick, pale green shamrock leaves). O.boweii is actually just my guess based on photos I viewed in the free photo gallery at www.oxalis.org. Anyway, no offense is intended to anyone, but oxais.org or not, they're still weeds to me. So if any domestic-post Members are interested, send me a private email, and I'd be more than happy to box some of these babies up & send 'em your way. Happy weeding, -d. P.S. I can send an actual snap if that would be more informative. From msittner@mcn.org Wed Nov 26 19:30:13 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20081126160027.035929b8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: One Man's Pernicious Weed is another's Oxalis Boweii Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 16:29:47 -0800 Dear David, I wonder if the weed you are describing could be Oxalis purpurea. Diana Chapman once said you could make a lawn out of it. It's the one that in Northern California can spread much more than you'd like (besides Oxalis pes-caprae which is yellow and seems to appear out of nowhere.) I think people purposely plant Oxalis purpurea since it is long blooming , comes in many different colors (white, pink, rose, salmon, yellow, violet, cream) and the leaves are attractive if you like shamrock leaves . Oxalis bowiei (note the correct spelling) which is an Eastern Cape species in my experience produces very large bulbs, is tall and fall blooming. Oxalis purpurea has dark gummy bulbs of many sizes and once planted in Mediterranean climates in the ground is difficult to eradicate. I assume as with many Oxalis species that some forms are more invasive than others. The one called 'Grand Duchess' is often for sale. In my garden in Stockton, California it grew in clay soil with very little to no supplemental water and bloomed from October through April, disappeared in the summer and then reappeared in fall. In spite of its invasive qualities, it was very pretty. On the coast in my garden with a lot of trees and not as much sun, it doesn't bloom nearly as well, but still spreads dramatically. Hopefully one day we'll get pictures of bulbs on the Oxalis pages of the wiki as they are often very helpful in identification. If you are going to give it away, it would be nice for people to know for sure what it is they are getting. Mary Sue From dells@voicenet.com Thu Nov 27 14:05:16 2008 Message-Id: <20081127190515.CBF3C4C014@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Happy Thanksgiving and my bad Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 14:04:54 -0500 Happy Thanksgiving to all of you who celebrate it and accept my apology for replying to the list in general. Dell From idavide@sbcglobal.net Thu Nov 27 14:06:11 2008 Message-Id: <145599.16174.qm@web81002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Iris family book/Goldblatt and Manning Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 11:06:10 -0800 (PST) FYI Timber is having a 30% off sale right now, for those of you who are interested.  Free shipping for orders over $30.00. From info@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org Thu Nov 27 14:14:42 2008 Message-Id: <325221DEEEA34EFDBB23CD8E9A05DFF8@homepc> From: Subject: Name change and Leo Martin Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 19:14:51 -0000 Leo, That island group off western Europe wouldn't be the one which includes the great Scottish nation from whence the clan Martin of Letterfinlay, followers of clan Cameron came from would it? Iain -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 5.7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 35166 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From opbungalow@gmail.com Thu Nov 27 18:18:29 2008 Message-Id: <150371710811271518g49a6b730sbebf89602a16f475@mail.gmail.com> From: "David Maxwell" Subject: O.purpurea: Second Best Guess Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 15:18:27 -0800 Hi Mary Sue, you know, it's entirely possible that what I've got is O.purpurea...and not O.bowiei...since the two look so similar/identical. Well, except purhaps for scale...which is always a problem when viewing anything over the Internet unless a ruler or something that indicates scale is included in the photo. The bulbs of my Oxalis are firm, elongated & dark brown...about the size of large acorns, but more the shape of freesia bulbs. Anyway, since they're freebies...to an Oxalis collector, I have a feeling that O.bowiei or O.purpurea, it's all good. -d. P.S. O.bowiei was spelled incorrectly (O.boweii) on the Oxalis.org website...and it's such a comfort to know that I'm not alone when it comes to making errors-of-fact. From rvanderhoff@sbcglobal.net Fri Nov 28 01:43:28 2008 Message-Id: <128205.16563.qm@web81001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ron Vanderhoff Subject: O.purpurea: Second Best Guess Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 22:43:26 -0800 (PST) David and all, Oxalis bowiei is really quite distinct from Oxalis purpurea. Perhaps the simplist distinction is that O. bowiei is always several flowers per peduncle (usually 8 to 12), whereas O. purpurea is always one flower per peduncle. The flower arrangements make these two species easy to seperate. If no flowers are present, the foliage of O. bowiei is at least twice as large and the leaflets are noticably thicker and almost succulent. Also, the foliage of O. purpurea lies more or less along the ground, seldom more that two or three inches above the soil. The foliage of O. bowiei tends to stands up much higher. Ron Vanderhoff California From kyle.b1@xtra.co.nz Fri Nov 28 14:25:22 2008 Message-Id: From: Kiyel Subject: O.purpurea: Second Best Guess Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 08:25:16 +1300 Hi all , Two photos of Oxalis bulbs. First one is of Oxalis purpurea and the second one is O. bowiei.. As I depot all my Oxalis I am trying to get photos of all the bulb forms.Some like O.pulvinata are rather large and others like O.equalis are like snail eggs. Cheers. http://public.fotki.com/savagegardenz/oxalis-1/oxalis/dsc0001.html http://public.fotki.com/savagegardenz/oxalis-1/oxalis/dsc0003.html Kiyel Boland In Sunny Napier. http://public.fotki.com/savagegardenz From toadlily@olywa.net Fri Nov 28 20:54:54 2008 Message-Id: <4930A0FA.8020500@olywa.net> From: Laura & Dave Subject: O.purpurea: Second Best Guess Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 17:55:06 -0800 The links in Kiyel's message were changed. For O. bowiei it should be: http://public.fotki.com/savagegardenz/oxalis-1/oxalis/bowiei.html And for O. purpurea it should be: http://public.fotki.com/savagegardenz/oxalis-1/oxalis/purpureauli4a.html Dave From leo@possi.org Sat Nov 29 21:22:22 2008 Message-Id: <0090bef4736912c25ab2acd63b3f0938.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Name change and Leo Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 18:22:20 -0800 (PST) > Leo, That island group off western Europe wouldn't be the one which > includes the great Scottish nation from whence the clan Martin of > Letterfinlay, followers of clan Cameron came from would it? Iain Nope, Iain. Some of my best friends are Scots, but on my father's side we're originally from Poland 4 and 5 generations ago. My grandfather changed his name when he couldn't get work. That is how most Martins in the USA got their name - it's the second commonest name in our phone books, after Smith (most of whom also probably didn't bring it with them over the water.) Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From kyle.b1@xtra.co.nz Sun Nov 30 22:16:03 2008 Message-Id: From: Kiyel Subject: O.purpurea: Second Best Guess (Laura & Dave) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 16:15:54 +1300 Thanks Laura and Dave. I'm not sure how that happened. I did not see the message on line until 6 ­30 this morning NZ time. As I only get the digest.Sorry to have caused some confusion. And thanks to all 130 of you that have visited my Photo Album. I always read every email in the Daily Digest, and dream of ever being able to get some of the plants that you all grow. We have such tight restrictions here in New Zealand on importing new plants and seed. So it is really good to be able to see photos, and read about them all. Thanks Kiyel. Kiyel Boland In Sunny Napier. http://public.fotki.com/savagegardenz Kiyel Boland In Sunny Napier. http://public.fotki.com/savagegardenz