From christopherwhitehouse@rhs.org.uk Mon Nov 1 05:14:52 2010 Message-Id: <76597B6CEABBC84BB63097BF023290B315C880F8FC@VSM07MBX.rhs.net> From: Subject: Banana leaf canna nomenclature question Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 09:01:47 +0000 >If this were a species canna, the change from musaefolia to musifolia would >be in accordance with the current international rules for botanical >nomenclature. >But this is not a species, it?s a cultivar or hybrid. That being the case, >can we retain the original spelling musaefolia? Can some one with access to >the rules for cultivated plants let me know? Article 35.1 of the Cultivated Code states "The correct spelling of epithets in Latin form that were originally published under the provisions of the ICBN but that are subsequently used as cultivar, Group or Grex epithets is to be determined in accordance with the provisions of Art. 60 of the ICBN". So 'Musifolia' is correct if used as a cultivar epithet. Chris From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Nov 1 10:34:20 2010 Message-Id: <903C1C9B78D347C5A56B3C3883938554@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Banana leaf canna nomenclature question Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 10:34:46 -0400 Thanks, Chris. Now let’s ask the same question from a different point of view. A check of IPNI suggests that Canna musifolia was not validly published under the ICBN. Also, the paper “The Cannaceae of the World” by H. Maas-Van De Kamer & P.J.M. Maas in BLUMEA 53: 247–318 Published on 29 October 2008 (thank you Alani) lists Canna musifolia (and its orthographic variants) as a “nomen subnudum”. [For those of you trying to follow this, a nomen nudum is a name published without description. The term “nomen subnudum” (evidently an unofficial term) is sometimes used to describe names which are not quite a nomen nudum, but otherwise not adequately described.] Chris, you framed your response in terms of names published under the ICBN. If the name is not validly published under the ICBN, doesn’t that change things? For purposes of discussion, let’s say Canna musaefolia was not published validly under the ICBN. In that case, would the spelling musaefolia be available for a cultivar name? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From tony@plantdelights.com Mon Nov 1 11:24:14 2010 Message-Id: From: "Tony Avent" Subject: Banana leaf canna nomenclature question Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 11:24:12 -0400 Jim: We published Canna 'Musafolia' as a cultivar in our 2000 catalog. If someone published it before then, I'll be glad to defer. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jim McKenney Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 10:35 AM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Banana leaf canna nomenclature question Thanks, Chris. Now let’s ask the same question from a different point of view. A check of IPNI suggests that Canna musifolia was not validly published under the ICBN. Also, the paper “The Cannaceae of the World” by H. Maas-Van De Kamer & P.J.M. Maas in BLUMEA 53: 247–318 Published on 29 October 2008 (thank you Alani) lists Canna musifolia (and its orthographic variants) as a “nomen subnudum”. [For those of you trying to follow this, a nomen nudum is a name published without description. The term “nomen subnudum” (evidently an unofficial term) is sometimes used to describe names which are not quite a nomen nudum, but otherwise not adequately described.] Chris, you framed your response in terms of names published under the ICBN. If the name is not validly published under the ICBN, doesn’t that change things? For purposes of discussion, let’s say Canna musaefolia was not published validly under the ICBN. In that case, would the spelling musaefolia be available for a cultivar name? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From Santoury@aol.com Mon Nov 1 11:50:36 2010 Message-Id: <8CD47F39F1CC9AD-1F30-19745@Webmail-m122.sysops.aol.com> From: santoury@aol.com Subject: Hello Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2010 11:50:20 -0400 Things have been silent here a while - which is unusual. Am I missing anything? Best, Jude From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Nov 1 13:03:09 2010 Message-Id: <38D71A65A5E64E6C90DE895CE106422E@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Banana leaf canna nomenclature question Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 13:03:14 -0400 Tony wrote: “We published Canna 'Musafolia' as a cultivar in our 2000 catalog. If someone published it before then, I'll be glad to defer.” I’m trying to take this one step by step so-to-speak, but Tony has anticipated a question I had reserved for a later stage in the discussion. There are several complications involved here, and there is a good chance that they might never be resolved except by fiat. The cannas in question are not evidently a single clonal cultivar. One source (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canna_'Musaefolia') lists several forms which, for discussion purposes, has been called the (capital G) Musaefolia Group. This term Group does not have taxonomic rank and does not imply relationship or common ancestry. One salient problem in such a situation is deciding which of the similar forms is the original, the first for which the name was used. As things stand now, I don’t think the combination Canna ‘Musaefolia’ (or any of the usual orthographic variants) without further description can be said with certainty to apply to any of the presently known cannas. Another curious fact is that the etymology of the word Musa seems to be unknown. It is not a word of classical Latin or Greek origin (unless you accept that it is from the name of the physician of Augustus, Antonius Musa ; that explanation came after the word was coined. Incidentally, the brother of Antonius Musa was Euphorbus after whom the genus Euphorbia is said to be named.) The spelling musaefolia treats the word musa as a first declension feminine word, but I don’t understand the basis for that. The spelling Musafolia confused me at first, but now that I know that musa itself is not a Latin or Greek word, it makes sense. Musaefolia is not allowed under ICBN because it is made up of two words - each capable of standing individually - joined into one; such words are now automatically changed to compound words by using the appropriate combining vowel (which in Latin will be i in most cases rather than a case ending) to join the stem of the leading word to the following word. Here’s where I think each name stands: Musaefolia: perhaps the original spelling used Musifolia: the above spelling corrected to current ICBN standards for words published under ICBN Musafolia: a spelling which recognizes that musa is not of Latin or Greek origin Are there others? I know that these discussions drive some people crazy, but some of us really like to get into it. And if nothing else, they illustrate how even the seemingly simplest things have unexpected complexity. It’s also nice, when possible, to be precise. And when that is not possible, it’s nice to know what the alternatives and possibilities are. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From kjblack@pacbell.net Mon Nov 1 13:32:19 2010 Message-Id: <740521.33556.qm@web80402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: Ismene and Amarcrinum Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 10:32:17 -0700 (PDT) This Ismene and all my Amarcrinums have sent up scapes in response to our recent October rains here in SOCAL.   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5136147201/   Ken Blackford San Diego From ds429@comcast.net Mon Nov 1 13:33:30 2010 Message-Id: <000001cb79ea$fba05cd0$f2e11670$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 258 Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 13:34:05 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 258" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact me for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Pam Slate: 1. Cormlets of Tritonia dubia 2. Bulblets of Ipheion uniflorum, mixed cvs ('Rolf Fiedler', 'Jessie', 'Froyle Mill', 'Charlotte Bishop') From Gerry Lehmann: 3. Seedlings of Iris pseudacorus (Note: this can become invasive if it escapes into waterways, ponds, etc.) 4. Seed of Manfreda longiflora (few) From Tommie Gillam: 5. Seed of Remusatia vivipara, "Hitchhiker Elephant Ear" 6. Seed of Remusatia pumila, "Dwarf Hitchhiker Elephant Ear" From Rick Kyper: 7. Small tubers of Zantedeschia jucunda, yellow, ex. Chilterns 8. Bulbs of Oxalis hirta 'Gothenburg' From Jim Waddick: 9. Seed of Canna flaccida, of northernmost origin 10. Seed of Lilium leichtlinii diploid/fertile 'Tiger lily' From Marguerite English: 11. Bulbs of Oxalis bowiei, pink, ex Castillo From Arnold Trachtenberg: 12. Bulbs of Cyrtanthus ?, scarlet trumpet resembling C. montanus Thank you, Pam, Gerry, Tommie, Rick, Jim, Marguerite, and Arnold !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From SRS0=3xuSGV=SC=johnlonsdale.net=john@eigbox.net Mon Nov 1 14:31:42 2010 Message-Id: <01b501cb79ee$d040b4f0$70c21ed0$@net> From: "John T Lonsdale" Subject: FW: Penn Bioinformatics Forum -- Wed. November 10th with Dr. Michael Cummings Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 14:01:28 -0400 The information below might be of interest: Penn Bioinformatics Forum Dr. Michael Cummings Associate Professor Center for Bioinformatics and Computational Biology University of Maryland Wednesday, November 10, 2010 CRB Austrian Auditorium. --- (directions http://www.facilities.upenn.edu/map.php#) 4:45pm (Reception held in the CRB Lobby @ 4:30pm) Quantifying lineage divergence: the genealogical sorting index Abstract - Despite the many speciation mechanisms and the equally diverse range of species concepts, the divergence of species should be reflected in the genealogy of most loci. Ultimately gene copies at a given locus within species should share a common evolutionary history to the exclusion of gene copies within other species, that is, they will form monophyletic groups. The standard categorical phylogenetic concepts of polyphyly, paraphyly, and monophyly describe qualitative relation- ships among organismal groups (such as species) and fail to quantify the degree of genealogical divergence along a continuum. To address this problem we introduce a statistic, the genealogical sorting index (gsi), for quantifying the degree of exclusive ancestry of labeled groups on a rooted genealogy and demonstrate its application. The statistic is simple, intuitive, and easily calculated. It has a normalized range to facilitate comparisons among different groups, trees, or studies and it provides information on individual groups rather than a composite measure for all groups. It naturally handles polytomies and accommodates measures of uncertainty in phylogenetic relationships. We use coalescent simulations to explore the behavior of the gsi across a range of divergence times, with the mean value increasing to 1, the maximum value when exclusivity within a group reached monophyly. Simulations also demonstrate that the power to reject the null hypothesis of mixed genealogical ancestry increased markedly as sample size increased, and that the gsi provides a statistically more powerful measure of divergence than Fst. Applications to data from published studies demonstrated that the gsi provides a useful way to detect significant exclusivity even when groups are not monophyletic. Although we describe this statistic in the context of divergence, it is more broadly applicable to quantify and assess the significance of clustering of observations in labeled groups on any tree. John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 315 571 9232 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From fbiasella@watertownsavings.com Mon Nov 1 14:28:18 2010 Message-Id: <32E505D2AD29E344A76A2672C0622C6D46722677C3@MBX12.EXCHPROD.USA.NET> From: Fred Biasella Subject: Pacific BX 258 Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 18:20:43 +0000 Hi Dell, May I please order: 12. Bulbs of Cyrtanthus ?, scarlet trumpet resembling C. montanus Thanx, Fred From tjgillam@hughes.net Mon Nov 1 14:45:23 2010 Message-Id: <1811708572.73347.1288636066914.JavaMail.mail@webmail02> From: TOMMIE GILLAM Subject: Pacific BX 258 Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 18:27:46 +0000 (GMT) From tony@plantdelights.com Mon Nov 1 14:36:54 2010 Message-Id: From: "Tony Avent" Subject: Banana leaf canna nomenclature question Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 14:36:48 -0400 Jim: Sorry to have de-railed your train of thought by answering a question before it was asked, but I've always found reading minds much more enjoyable than reading books. This discussion reminds me of my favorite quote: "We have not succeeded in answering all of our problems. The answers we have found only serve to raise a whole set of new questions. In some ways we feel we are as confused as ever, but we believe we are confused on a higher level and about more important things." (E. Kelley 1951) I'll be following this thread to see where it leeds. Keep up the good work Mr. Holmes. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jim McKenney Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 1:03 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Banana leaf canna nomenclature question Tony wrote: “We published Canna 'Musafolia' as a cultivar in our 2000 catalog. If someone published it before then, I'll be glad to defer.” I’m trying to take this one step by step so-to-speak, but Tony has anticipated a question I had reserved for a later stage in the discussion. There are several complications involved here, and there is a good chance that they might never be resolved except by fiat. The cannas in question are not evidently a single clonal cultivar. One source (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canna_'Musaefolia') lists several forms which, for discussion purposes, has been called the (capital G) Musaefolia Group. This term Group does not have taxonomic rank and does not imply relationship or common ancestry. One salient problem in such a situation is deciding which of the similar forms is the original, the first for which the name was used. As things stand now, I don’t think the combination Canna ‘Musaefolia’ (or any of the usual orthographic variants) without further description can be said with certainty to apply to any of the presently known cannas. Another curious fact is that the etymology of the word Musa seems to be unknown. It is not a word of classical Latin or Greek origin (unless you accept that it is from the name of the physician of Augustus, Antonius Musa ; that explanation came after the word was coined. Incidentally, the brother of Antonius Musa was Euphorbus after whom the genus Euphorbia is said to be named.) The spelling musaefolia treats the word musa as a first declension feminine word, but I don’t understand the basis for that. The spelling Musafolia confused me at first, but now that I know that musa itself is not a Latin or Greek word, it makes sense. Musaefolia is not allowed under ICBN because it is made up of two words - each capable of standing individually - joined into one; such words are now automatically changed to compound words by using the appropriate combining vowel (which in Latin will be i in most cases rather than a case ending) to join the stem of the leading word to the following word. Here’s where I think each name stands: Musaefolia: perhaps the original spelling used Musifolia: the above spelling corrected to current ICBN standards for words published under ICBN Musafolia: a spelling which recognizes that musa is not of Latin or Greek origin Are there others? I know that these discussions drive some people crazy, but some of us really like to get into it. And if nothing else, they illustrate how even the seemingly simplest things have unexpected complexity. It’s also nice, when possible, to be precise. And when that is not possible, it’s nice to know what the alternatives and possibilities are. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From awilson@avonia.com Mon Nov 1 14:41:48 2010 Message-Id: <84BF47D54D124EB8A4A5B7598993FF0C@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: FW: Penn Bioinformatics Forum -- Wed. November 10th with Dr.Michael Cummings Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 11:43:35 -0700 Sounds interesting. If you attend could you forward us either data supplied or possibly a summary of what you thought? Thanks Andrew Wilson, San Diego -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of John T Lonsdale Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 11:01 AM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society'; 'Trillium Enthusiast Discussion List (and other Woodland plants)' Subject: [pbs] FW: Penn Bioinformatics Forum -- Wed. November 10th with Dr.Michael Cummings The information below might be of interest: Penn Bioinformatics Forum Dr. Michael Cummings Associate Professor Center for Bioinformatics and Computational Biology University of Maryland Wednesday, November 10, 2010 CRB Austrian Auditorium. --- (directions http://www.facilities.upenn.edu/map.php#) 4:45pm (Reception held in the CRB Lobby @ 4:30pm) Quantifying lineage divergence: the genealogical sorting index Abstract - Despite the many speciation mechanisms and the equally diverse range of species concepts, the divergence of species should be reflected in the genealogy of most loci. Ultimately gene copies at a given locus within species should share a common evolutionary history to the exclusion of gene copies within other species, that is, they will form monophyletic groups. The standard categorical phylogenetic concepts of polyphyly, paraphyly, and monophyly describe qualitative relation- ships among organismal groups (such as species) and fail to quantify the degree of genealogical divergence along a continuum. To address this problem we introduce a statistic, the genealogical sorting index (gsi), for quantifying the degree of exclusive ancestry of labeled groups on a rooted genealogy and demonstrate its application. The statistic is simple, intuitive, and easily calculated. It has a normalized range to facilitate comparisons among different groups, trees, or studies and it provides information on individual groups rather than a composite measure for all groups. It naturally handles polytomies and accommodates measures of uncertainty in phylogenetic relationships. We use coalescent simulations to explore the behavior of the gsi across a range of divergence times, with the mean value increasing to 1, the maximum value when exclusivity within a group reached monophyly. Simulations also demonstrate that the power to reject the null hypothesis of mixed genealogical ancestry increased markedly as sample size increased, and that the gsi provides a statistically more powerful measure of divergence than Fst. Applications to data from published studies demonstrated that the gsi provides a useful way to detect significant exclusivity even when groups are not monophyletic. Although we describe this statistic in the context of divergence, it is more broadly applicable to quantify and assess the significance of clustering of observations in labeled groups on any tree. John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 315 571 9232 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon Nov 1 14:49:24 2010 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Tritonia hybridizing OT Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 18:49:22 +0000 Dear all: This is OT but I wanted to bring your attention to this. It has been mentioned in the wiki in the past but it seems to be more problematic than previously thought of. Winter growing Tritonias are mostly easy to flower, dependable cormous plants that are in bloom at the end of the season (except for one or two spp.) when most other SA winter growers are setting seed or already dormant. We grow here several species and they are lovely and undemanding. BUT, recently a large batch of Tritonia dubia seed has flowered and what a mess it is. They were seed from our own Tritonia dubia, therefore no doubt about the origin of the parent plants. Very few look like pure dubia, many superficially resemble deusta and yet others look like crocata in several shades of deep salmon and scarlet orange. All are great garden plants and flower freely even tho this is their first season but it is evident a lot of care must be take to ensure that the seed is pure. As it goes it seems the bees have stirred it up a good deal and our aim is to distribute pure species not a swarm of hybrids, pretty as they may be. Best From joshy46013@yahoo.com Mon Nov 1 14:51:09 2010 Message-Id: <958627.58353.qm@web52901.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Josh Young Subject: Tritonia hybridizing OT Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 11:51:07 -0700 (PDT) Alberto, I would love to see pictures of your hybrid Tritonias if you don't mind! Josh ________________________________ From: Alberto Castillo To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Mon, November 1, 2010 2:49:22 PM Subject: [pbs] Tritonia hybridizing OT Dear all: This is OT but I wanted to bring your attention to this. It has been mentioned in the wiki in the past but it seems to be more problematic than previously thought of. Winter growing Tritonias are mostly easy to flower, dependable cormous plants that are in bloom at the end of the season (except for one or two spp.) when most other SA winter growers are setting seed or already dormant. We grow here several species and they are lovely and undemanding. BUT, recently a large batch of Tritonia dubia seed has flowered and what a mess it is. They were seed from our own Tritonia dubia, therefore no doubt about the origin of the parent plants. Very few look like pure dubia, many superficially resemble deusta and yet others look like crocata in several shades of deep salmon and scarlet orange. All are great garden plants and flower freely even tho this is their first season but it is evident a lot of care must be take to ensure that the seed is pure. As it goes it seems the bees have stirred it up a good deal and our aim is to distribute pure species not a swarm of hybrids, pretty as they may be. Best From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon Nov 1 14:53:34 2010 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Tritonia hybridizing OT Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 18:53:32 +0000 Josh, they already are in the wiki. It is difficult to find something that is not already in the wiki. Despite their beauty I am concerned that pure seed can not be distributed with any certainty. Best > Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 11:51:07 -0700 > From: joshy46013@yahoo.com > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] Tritonia hybridizing OT > > Alberto, > > I would love to see pictures of your hybrid Tritonias if you don't mind! > > Josh > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Alberto Castillo > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: Mon, November 1, 2010 2:49:22 PM > Subject: [pbs] Tritonia hybridizing OT > > > Dear all: > > This is OT but I wanted to bring your attention to this. It has > been mentioned in the wiki in the past but it seems to be more problematic than > previously thought of. > > > Winter growing Tritonias are mostly easy to flower, dependable > cormous plants that are in bloom at the end of the season (except for one or two > spp.) when most other SA winter growers are setting seed or already dormant. We > grow here several species and they are lovely and undemanding. BUT, recently a > large batch of Tritonia dubia seed has flowered and what a mess it is. They were > seed from our own Tritonia dubia, therefore no doubt about the origin of the > parent plants. Very few look like pure dubia, many superficially resemble deusta > and yet others look like crocata in several shades of deep salmon and scarlet > orange. All are great garden plants and flower freely even tho this is their > first season but it is evident a lot of care must be take to ensure that the > seed is pure. As it goes it seems the bees have stirred it up a good deal and > our aim is to distribute pure species not a swarm of hybrids, pretty as they may > be. > > > > Best > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Nov 1 14:57:39 2010 Message-Id: <44C72730-5C00-40AD-AD0C-56F403B17C76@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Tritonia hybridizing OT Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 11:57:37 -0700 Alberto, How far apart are your different Tritonia species? Is it mostly honeybees that are the pollinators? Diane Whitehead From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Nov 1 15:47:53 2010 Message-Id: <516C4AE7872443C294ABD4A43E65F6EE@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Banana leaf canna nomenclature question Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 15:48:35 -0400 Thanks, Tony, I'm going to paste the Kelley quote over my keyboard. It sounds to me like another way of saying that the closer we get to certainty, the further we are from anything which makes sense in a practical everyday way. Jim McKenney From bob.hoel@comcast.net Mon Nov 1 15:56:25 2010 Message-Id: From: Robert Hoel Subject: Iris dardanus Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 14:56:21 -0500 I have purchased some "bulbs" of Iris dardanus thinking that they were like other Dutch Iris that I have planted. When I opened the brown paper bag they came in I realized that these resemble more of a typical bearded Iris rhizome, which I would plant nearly on the surface. Can someone tell me how these should be planted? On the surface or not? If not, how deep? I assume the rhizome should be planted horizontal to the surface like a bearded iris. The packaging said full or partial sun. What I have since read suggests the more sun the better and that they like to bake in the summer sun. Cultivation pointers appreciated. Bob Hoel Chicago area From ds429@comcast.net Mon Nov 1 16:01:29 2010 Message-Id: <003b01cb79ff$a86d0710$f9471530$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 258 Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 16:02:01 -0400 No message -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of TOMMIE GILLAM Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 2:28 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 258 From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Nov 1 16:15:36 2010 Message-Id: From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Iris dardanus Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 16:16:21 -0400 Bob, Iris ‘Dardanus’ is one of the regeliocyclus hybrid irises (the name comes from the name of a group of irises named for Regel, the nineteenth century German/Russian botanist and oncocyclus, the name of another group of irises). I think you’ll find it easy to grow if, and this is important, you keep it very dry during its dormant period. I would suggest beginning to dry the plants off right after they bloom if your soil is at all heavy. By “dry them off” I mean put something transparent over the growing plants (leaving the sides open for ventilation) to keep off all rain. In older books you will sometimes see the recommendation to dig the plants for the summer. That might work in some climates or under some conditions, but in general if you dig the plants too soon you will damage the roots which remain lively for a while after the leaves die down. A few years ago I gave a piece of this plant to a friend who now grows it in a pot. I don’t think she has been all that careful about keeping it completely dry during the summer, and it continues to grow for her. But I would not count on that sort of treatment being successful. When the plants come into bloom, drop what you are doing and go enjoy them. They will be gone for another year before you know it. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From adam14113@ameritech.net Mon Nov 1 18:19:09 2010 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Iris dardanus Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 17:18:44 -0500 Bob. re Dardanus in this area. Plant in the grittiest fastest-draining soil you have with no more than 2% humus. Fertilize only wtih liquid fertilizer, low nitrogen. Check further at the Aril Society's website. A raised bed is in order or a slope. You can use peat in the top 6 inches as Henry Danielson used to-- who was very successful with them.Be sure to pprotect against iris borer along about April 6. Regards, Adam ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Hoel" To: Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 2:56 PM Subject: [pbs] Iris dardanus >I have purchased some "bulbs" of Iris dardanus thinking that they were like >other Dutch Iris that I have planted. When I opened the brown paper bag >they came in I realized that these resemble more of a typical bearded Iris >rhizome, which I would plant nearly on the surface. Can someone tell me >how these should be planted? On the surface or not? If not, how deep? I >assume the rhizome should be planted horizontal to the surface like a >bearded iris. The packaging said full or partial sun. What I have since >read suggests the more sun the better and that they like to bake in the >summer sun. > > Cultivation pointers appreciated. > > Bob Hoel > Chicago area > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From adam14113@ameritech.net Mon Nov 1 18:43:22 2010 Message-Id: <056A454A2B854D7582885F5E64B45F99@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Fw: Iris dardanus -- 2nd message Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 17:43:13 -0500 I've increased my success historically by covering them with styrofoam panels e.g., 16 x 48 from Home Depot andanchoringt theminplace with bricks. Putting them over the plants (covered with coarse sand) about the time of the first heavy snow. It reduces the wetness during the winter. I takek off the styrofoam about April 4, and give them a shot of 10-10-10 fertilizer then. Good Luck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Fikso" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris dardanus > Bob. re Dardanus in this area. Plant in the grittiest fastest-draining > soil you have with no more than 2% humus. Fertilize only wtih liquid > fertilizer, low nitrogen. Check further at the Aril Society's website. A > raised bed is in order or a slope. You can use peat in the top 6 inches > as Henry Danielson used to-- who was very successful with them.Be sure to > pprotect against iris borer along about April 6. Regards, Adam > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Hoel" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 2:56 PM > Subject: [pbs] Iris dardanus > > >>I have purchased some "bulbs" of Iris dardanus thinking that they were >>like other Dutch Iris that I have planted. When I opened the brown paper >>bag they came in I realized that these resemble more of a typical bearded >>Iris rhizome, which I would plant nearly on the surface. Can someone tell >>me how these should be planted? On the surface or not? If not, how deep? >>I assume the rhizome should be planted horizontal to the surface like a >>bearded iris. The packaging said full or partial sun. What I have since >>read suggests the more sun the better and that they like to bake in the >>summer sun. >> >> Cultivation pointers appreciated. >> >> Bob Hoel >> Chicago area >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From Santoury@aol.com Mon Nov 1 21:28:00 2010 Message-Id: <8CD4844412C5FA3-219C-379F@webmail-m013.sysops.aol.com> From: santoury@aol.com Subject: Variegated Opuntia? Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2010 21:27:31 -0400 I know this is just a shot in the dark, and a little off-topic, but since Opuntia can be grown in many different situations, I figured I might give this a shot. I would LOVE some of the variegated Opuntia (Spineless, and if possible, without glocchids.) There are a couple on Ebay, but the names, and species keep changing, and I am not comfortable buying something that the seller just made a name for. I grow Opuntia ellisiana which is completely smooth, with no glocchids, and it's a pleasure petting them. Thanks, Jude From idavide@sbcglobal.net Mon Nov 1 22:00:15 2010 Message-Id: <556000.73340.qm@web81001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Ismene and Amarcrinum Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 19:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Ken,   that Ismene looks white.  As I recall, Sulphur Queen flowers are a pale primrose yellow.  Is your plant able to produce seed?   I was surprised that rain could have such an effect -- I leave my Ismene (xfestalis) outside all the time, here in the S.F. Bay area.  They seem to respond to the season, and not to the amount of water.  So now, despite the wet weather, they are evidently inclining toward dormancy. David E. From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon Nov 1 22:23:22 2010 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Tritonia hybridizing OT Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 02:23:20 +0000 Hi Diane: Only now I see your posting. Like several others, I receive only part of the forum messages. Our Tritonia species are in different frames separated by wide aisles. No chances for the wind to spread pollen. So far it has been bees what are seen on them. Of course it could be other insects (for instance, flies are seen all over Ferraria flowers). Regards From kjblack@pacbell.net Mon Nov 1 23:25:54 2010 Message-Id: <717197.64399.qm@web80401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: Ismene and Amarcrinum Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 20:25:52 -0700 (PDT) Hi David,   Well, not sure about the species or cultivar name ... a neighbor was tossing out the bulb several years ago, which was unlabelled.  It has a slight yellow coloring despite the photo.  I retrieved it and plunked in the ground off my kitchen patio.  The bed in which it resides received no summer irrigation this year, and the plant was dormant until our first rain in late September/early October, when suddenly it pushed up leaves.   The Amarcrinums behind it, also went dormant this year, but pushed up a scape in June and again in August, but no leaves until the H2O arrived.  In past years, they retained their foliage with minimal irrigation.  I will say it seemed we had no Summer this year in coastal San Diego.  With only a few exceptions, the temperature rarely got much above 70F and we suffered an extended "June Gloom" pretty much through October.  Perhaps our weird weather has affected the normal growth cycle.   Ken Blackford San Diego   From: David Ehrlich Subject: Re: [pbs] Ismene and Amarcrinum To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Monday, November 1, 2010, 7:00 PM Ken,   that Ismene looks white.  As I recall, Sulphur Queen flowers are a pale primrose yellow.  Is your plant able to produce seed?   I was surprised that rain could have such an effect -- I leave my Ismene (xfestalis) outside all the time, here in the S.F. Bay area.  They seem to respond to the season, and not to the amount of water.  So now, despite the wet weather, they are evidently inclining toward dormancy. From christopherwhitehouse@rhs.org.uk Tue Nov 2 07:48:43 2010 Message-Id: <76597B6CEABBC84BB63097BF023290B315C880F9BA@VSM07MBX.rhs.net> From: Subject: Banana leaf canna nomenclature question Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 11:48:35 +0000 >Here?s where I think each name stands: >Musaefolia: perhaps the original spelling used >Musifolia: the above spelling corrected to current ICBN standards for words >published under ICBN >Musafolia: a spelling which recognizes that musa is not of Latin or Greek >origin Jim has clearly laid out the options here but much of what is said is based upon the idea that Canna musifolia is a nomen subnudum. This idea appears to come from the Maas's Cannaceae of the World monograph (fortunately freely available to all via the web). However, nomen subnudum is not a term that appears at all in the ICBN and has little value. A name either has a description, in which case it is validly published, or it does not. There is however one possibility to overcome this for names that have an inadequate description which might cause a disruption in that it can be taken to the General Committee for their decision on whether the name should be treated as validly published (article 32.4). Back to Musifolia, the name is therefore valid and in my opinion the orthography should therefore follow the spelling of the ICBN. I doubt anyway whether it really is a subnudum name as there are probably many valid descriptions of it out there for such an old name. One of the great things about Google Books is putting in some of these old horticultural names, which previously have not been picked up by IPNI and finding old references so easily. So a quick search on Canna musaefolia reveals a reasonable description for it back from 1862: "Canna musaefolia: ? feuilles de bananier. - Tige de 1.50 ? 2 m?tres; feuilles dress?es, largement ovales-oblongues; fleurs orange coccin?, tr?s belles." http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=o_QCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA52&dq=canna+musaefolia&hl=en&ei=I9DPTPHhBMORswbWqoylAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-preview-link&resnum=7&ved=0CEYQuwUwBg#v=onepage&q=canna%20musaefolia&f=false Whether this is diagnostic, I cannot say but it is hardly subnudum. Chris From info@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org Tue Nov 2 08:30:48 2010 Message-Id: From: "iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org" Subject: Iris x dardanus Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 12:12:44 -0000 It does not appear that either the name Iris dardanus or Iris x dardanus has been validly published in any of the International standard works, e.g. IPNI nor can I find it in Innes' standard reference work. I would be grateful if anyone can throw light on this, currently pseudo taxon. If a hybrid information on its reputed parentage would also be welcomed please. If the root system is, as described, similar to the rhyzomatic type Iris group then the correct position for planting is, as has already been suggested, just as close to surface level as possible with the rhyzome slightly proud of surface area. Generally amongst the 70 + taxa in our collection here in northern Scotland these Iris do not appreciate poor drainage and invariably rot and/or are frozen during the winter. The ideal time for moving or splitting up is immediately post flowering, this allows the plants to establish a full root system while soil temperatures remain warm during the late summer / early autumn. Splitting clumps in the spring often leads to poor or non existent flowering in their first year post removal. Invariably, unless the group includes two or more seed originated clones, seed set usually does not follow from within that taxon but may occur by pollination from related taxa, this is probably what occurred to produce this horticultural plant, it certainly does not seem to occur in nature anywhere in eastern Europe, Near East, Asia Minor or central Asia as far as I can ascertain but would gratefully welcome more info if anyone knows otherwise. Would that we could grow Scorpio - Juno Iris as well here, how ever often tried so far, all species just wither away in a year or two or three. If of interest, all our Iris taxa survived the worst winter in decades here experiencing temperatures in the range of - 25 C to - 31 C, probably aided by free drainage as most grow in basic glaciated granite sands and gravels with a pH of 4.5 to 5.0 Iain -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 171537 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From joshy46013@yahoo.com Tue Nov 2 13:18:56 2010 Message-Id: <220465.26052.qm@web52902.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Josh Young Subject: Are There Any Hippeastrum Breeders Out Here? Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 10:18:52 -0700 (PDT) Hi Everyone :) I was writing wondering if there is anyone that breeds Hippeastrum that frequents this list. I would love to talk to others about their breeding programs and see what they've come up with :) Josh Anderson, IN From totototo@telus.net Tue Nov 2 14:50:58 2010 Message-Id: <4CCFFB1F.15964.96DED9E@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Iris x dardanus Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 11:50:55 -0700 On 2 Nov 2010, at 12:12, iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org wrote: > It does not appear that either the name Iris dardanus or Iris x dardanus has > been validly published in any of the International standard works, e.g. IPNI > nor can I find it in Innes' standard reference work. "Dardanus" sure sounds like a cultivar name to me. Keep in mind that before L. H. Bailey coined the word & concept "cultivar", cultivated plants were usually referred to as "varieties". Moreover, Latinate cultivar names created before a cutoff date (in the 1950s if my fallible memory still functions) are valid, though they would not be valid if created today. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada From totototo@telus.net Tue Nov 2 14:50:58 2010 Message-Id: <4CCFFB1F.14941.96DEDAF@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Banana leaf canna nomenclature question Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 11:50:55 -0700 On 2 Nov 2010, at 11:48, christopherwhitehouse@rhs.org.uk wrote: > A name either has a description, in which case it is validly published, or it > does not. Isn't there a provision that old epithets are considered "described" if they refer to a good illustration or a pre-Linnean verbal description? My memory of this may be wrong, but I recall it as a way of dealing with epithets published post-Linnaeus but before the ICBN had come into being with its many strictures. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Nov 2 15:03:58 2010 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Iris 'Dardanus' Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 14:03:47 -0500 Friends: Iris 'Daranus' Van Tubergen, an undated hybrid between I. korolkowii ( Section Regelia) x I. iberica (Section Oncocyclus). The Van Tubergen Nursery Ltd, and Zwanenberg Nurseries in Haarlem, Holland. specialized in Regeliocyclus hybrid iris and introduced dozen of still popular cultivars. Most of these date to the period from 1900-1920. This courtesy of the American Iris Society/ SIGNA cultivar checklist and Bob Pries. Best Jim W. ps Cultivation info on the web site of the "Aril Society International" -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From adam14113@ameritech.net Tue Nov 2 18:03:32 2010 Message-Id: <5E82452B7F8549D1969F5BB846C00B32@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Iris x dardanus Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 17:03:21 -0500 "Dardanus' is a cultivar; a regeliocyclus, probably I. korolkowi x I.iberica or its reciprocal. and not the original clone but a remade cross reselected selected. . . I'd have to check--my memory isn't always right. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris x dardanus > On 2 Nov 2010, at 12:12, iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org wrote: > >> It does not appear that either the name Iris dardanus or Iris x dardanus >> has >> been validly published in any of the International standard works, e.g. >> IPNI >> nor can I find it in Innes' standard reference work. > > "Dardanus" sure sounds like a cultivar name to me. Keep in mind that > before L. > H. Bailey coined the word & concept "cultivar", cultivated plants were > usually > referred to as "varieties". Moreover, Latinate cultivar names created > before a > cutoff date (in the 1950s if my fallible memory still functions) are > valid, > though they would not be valid if created today. > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From awilson@avonia.com Tue Nov 2 20:04:53 2010 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: A few nerines Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 17:06:39 -0700 Even though they are a month late here are a few (4) nerines today. The rain helped. Have others on the Pacific coast seen this tardiness? Many more to bloom - but, don't worry, I am not posting them! http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewrmw/ Andrew Wilson San Diego From bulborum@gmail.com Wed Nov 3 03:01:39 2010 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: A few nerines Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 08:01:37 +0100 Hello Andrew nice nerines but they just have numbers do you have some names and what is IMG_3829_1Roland 2010/11/3 AW > Even though they are a month late here are a few (4) nerines today. The > rain > helped. Have others on the Pacific coast seen this tardiness? > Many more to bloom - but, don't worry, I am not posting them! > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewrmw/ > > Andrew Wilson > San Diego > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From davidxvictor@btinternet.com Wed Nov 3 05:07:46 2010 Message-Id: <816594.74792.qm@smtp818.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> From: David Victor Subject: Iris "dardanus" Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 09:07:38 +0000 Iain, I think that the reason you can't find this taxon is because you are looking for a botanical epithet, whereas it is a cultivar name for a hybrid e.g. I. 'Dardanus'. These aren't listed on IPNI or the Kew Database of Monocots. Best regards, David Victor From robertpries@embarqmail.com Wed Nov 3 10:08:20 2010 Message-Id: <671987840.546403.1288793299505.JavaMail.root@md32.embarq.synacor.com> From: Robert Pries Subject: Iris "dardanus" Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 10:08:19 -0400 (EDT) Iain; You can find Dardanus in the Iris Encyclopedia that is under construction available on the American Iris Society website. Unfortunately no one has added a picture yet but by poking around with the various liks you can see its parents and similar hybrids. It appears that Dardanus was never properly registered but the website is attempting to show all irises that have appeared in the literature or trade. If you get a picture you may add it to the listing. Slowly we are asking many iris taxonomists and fanciers to contribute but we only have 27,000 of the approximately 80,000 listed and only about 20,000 photos. We welcome anyone who can contribute their knowledge and photos, since it is a wiki being built by the world's irisarians. It is free to all. Actually it is progressing rapidly for only a 10 month old baby. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Victor" To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2010 5:07:38 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris "dardanus" Iain, I think that the reason you can't find this taxon is because you are looking for a botanical epithet, whereas it is a cultivar name for a hybrid e.g. I. 'Dardanus'. These aren't listed on IPNI or the Kew Database of Monocots. Best regards, David Victor From awilson@avonia.com Wed Nov 3 13:29:29 2010 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: A few nerines Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 10:30:54 -0700 Dear Roland, As you know, many of the records of Nerine sarniensis forms and hybrids are scanty and may be inaccurate in some cases. But, here is the information I have : 5706 : Rosanne 5697 from Zienkowski collection (unlabelled, dated '1990'), ex Vinisky 5699 from Zienkowski collection (unlabelled), ex Vinisky 5693 from Zienkowski collection ('Cinderella grex'), ex Vinisky I acquired some these bulbs via the IBS after the famed hybridiser Zienkowski passsed away. He left no formal records other than plant tags. In many cases, according to Steve Vinisky who sorted through the large collection and shipped me a number of the bulbs, the tags were not present or were partially illegible. In some of the tags there was information about specific crosses. The image 'IMG 3829' is a Zephyranthes andina that I observed in the northern province of Juyjuy, Argentina almost exacrly three years ago. It appears here because I use Flickr only to show images for a temporary purpose. The Flickr files would need to be internally divided into sets to separate it - please disregard. Andrew Wilson San Diego Hello Andrew nice nerines but they just have numbers do you have some names and what is IMG_3829_1Roland From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Wed Nov 3 13:53:56 2010 Message-Id: <193082.4309.qm@web86303.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: A few nerines Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 17:53:50 +0000 (GMT) The RHS at Wisley (UK) has an interesting display of Nerines at present. Each plant is in a black recess in a wall finished with a gilt frame, and lit by a single overhead spot. Until you get close it is difficult to see if it is a painting or a real plant. Very dramatic. Beats the Auricula theatre hands down. A pain to photograph because of the contrast, and flash turns the background to grey.   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8, but a warm 15C this evening From Santoury@aol.com Wed Nov 3 13:55:48 2010 Message-Id: <8CD499772DF1354-1868-4865@webmail-stg-d15.sysops.aol.com> From: santoury@aol.com Subject: Nerines ? Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 13:55:34 -0400 All this talk about Nerines, made me realize I do not even have one in my collection, and that has got to change :) Does anybody have some, or seeds, to swap? Best, Jude -----Original Message----- From: Brian Whyer To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:53 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] A few nerines The RHS at Wisley (UK) has an interesting display of Nerines at present. Each plant is in a black recess in a wall finished with a gilt frame, and lit by a single overhead spot. Until you get close it is difficult to see if it is a painting or a real plant. Very dramatic. Beats the Auricula theatre hands down. A pain to photograph because of the contrast, and flash turns the background to grey. Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8, but a warm 15C this evening From awilson@avonia.com Wed Nov 3 14:06:46 2010 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: A few nerines Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 11:08:14 -0700 That sounds like a dramatic display, one not easily reduced to reproduction of the images. By the way, at what time of year, do these sarniensis forms and hybrids bloom over there - early or late autumn? I ask because normally blooming begins here in mid-September, peaking in October. This year they are rather late. Andrew San Diego (90F and rising) From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Brian Whyer The RHS at Wisley (UK) has an interesting display of Nerines at present. Each plant is in a black recess in a wall finished with a gilt frame, and lit by a single overhead spot. Until you get close it is difficult to see if it is a painting or a real plant. Very dramatic. Beats the Auricula theatre hands down. A pain to photograph because of the contrast, and flash turns the background to grey.   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8, but a warm 15C this evening _______________________________________________ From mikemace@att.net Wed Nov 3 14:12:46 2010 Message-Id: <003701cb7b82$b62034c0$22609e40$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: A few Nerines Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 11:12:43 -0700 Andrew wrote: >> Have others on the Pacific coast seen this tardiness? Nice flowers, Andrew! Thanks for sharing. A couple of my Nerines are in bud now, but most have either just finished blooming or are about 2/3 of the way through. So I'd call it a normal but slightly extended season here. This was a very good Nerine year for me -- I'd guess that about 80% of my small collection bloomed. That's much better than my usual 40-50% rate. I have no idea what caused it, unless it was the fact that I repotted them all two years ago. Nerine buds apparently form over a two year period, so maybe they're thanking me for the fresh soil. Among other bulbs, the fall Oxalis are blooming very nicely, Strumaria truncata is in bud, and Moraea polystachya has been in bloom for a couple of weeks. Mike San Jose, CA From awilson@avonia.com Wed Nov 3 15:32:54 2010 Message-Id: <75491424E46646F29DD35931AD7A18BC@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: A few Nerines Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 12:34:48 -0700 Hi Mike! We've not conversed in years. I think we may have been two of the few people who requested nerine bulbs from that Zienkowski collection. Mine are still doing well, requiring almost no attention - which is probably why they are doing so well. Many are in the same pots as when I first potted them up - was it 1996? Some have mutiplied but get almost nothing in the way of fertiliser. I also got some from Charles Hardman's collection. They have done equally well, but are equally tardy this year. Also glad to hear your Oxalis are thriving. You planted them out, as I recall. But, that's a different topic, and one that may bore people! Regards Andrew San Diego Andrew wrote: >> Have others on the Pacific coast seen this tardiness? Nice flowers, Andrew! Thanks for sharing. A couple of my Nerines are in bud now, but most have either just finished blooming or are about 2/3 of the way through. So I'd call it a normal but slightly extended season here. This was a very good Nerine year for me -- I'd guess that about 80% of my small collection bloomed. That's much better than my usual 40-50% rate. I have no idea what caused it, unless it was the fact that I repotted them all two years ago. Nerine buds apparently form over a two year period, so maybe they're thanking me for the fresh soil. Among other bulbs, the fall Oxalis are blooming very nicely, Strumaria truncata is in bud, and Moraea polystachya has been in bloom for a couple of weeks. Mike San Jose, CA From pelarg@aol.com Wed Nov 3 17:20:18 2010 Message-Id: <8CD49B3A79CC341-1034-1EE7@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> From: pelarg@aol.com Subject: Nerine and garden notes in NY Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 17:17:33 -0400 (EDT) Hi all, Speaking of nerines, a Nerine bowdenii is in bud, it is one of a few I've had in the garden for years. Its close to bursting the bud sheath and opening, but is playing a game of dare with the weather. We have had the lightest touch of frost this week (much heavier in my school garden in Chappaqua, a few miles north) and if it doesn't open before a stronger frost, it will get nailed. The bulbs appear to be perfectly hardy but the flowers come so late that either I have to pick them to open briefly inside, or they tend to get frosted before they have a chance, except in good years of really lingering falls. At school the frosts of at least three nights have taken out the tender annuals, but sweet alyssum, mums, asters, pelargoniums reniforme, grossularoides, and sidoides, and a few other things keep trucking on. The amaryllis belladonna hybrids that I planted along the wall in late summer near the one that bloomed earlier this year are showing small leaves, but I know they will get frosted back if they emerge too far before it gets really cold later on. The foliage of the unknown crinums, maybe powellii, I put in the garden to test for hardiness this year did get damaged by the frosts, but the bulbs are quite deep in the ground (they had long "necks") and I am most curious to see if they come up again next year. Ernie DeMarie Tuckahoe, NY -----Original Message----- From: santoury To: pbs Sent: Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:47 pm Subject: [pbs] Nerines ? All this talk about Nerines, made me realize I do not even have one in my ollection, and that has got to change :) Does anybody have some, or seeds, to wap? est, Jude -----Original Message----- rom: Brian Whyer o: Pacific Bulb Society ent: Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:53 pm ubject: Re: [pbs] A few nerines The RHS at Wisley (UK) has an interesting display of Nerines at present. Each lant is in a black recess in a wall finished with a gilt frame, and lit by a ingle overhead spot. Until you get close it is difficult to see if it is a ainting or a real plant. Very dramatic. Beats the Auricula theatre hands down. pain to photograph because of the contrast, and flash turns the background to rey. rian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8, but a warm 15C this evening ______________________________________________ bs mailing list bs@lists.ibiblio.org ttp://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ttp://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ______________________________________________ bs mailing list bs@lists.ibiblio.org ttp://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ttp://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From hornig@earthlink.net Wed Nov 3 17:27:02 2010 Message-Id: <932154BF2AF240A2AC99440405511D4A@ellenPC> From: "Ellen Hornig" Subject: Nerine and garden notes in NY Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 17:26:53 -0400 I put a group of N. bowdenii in the garden this year, near the south-facing wall of the garage, and they're all in full bloom now, seemingly unperturbed by the fairly significant freeze we had last night (down to at least 28F). This clone, which I confess I got on eBay years ago, has always been quite frost-tolerant in containers (I'd bring them onto the deck to admire when they came in bloom). It's also free-blooming, and multiplies like crazy. I'll be interested to see whether the ones I planted out reappear in spring. Ellen Ellen Hornig Seneca Hill Perennials 3712 County Route 57 Oswego NY 13126 USA www.senecahillperennials.com From info@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org Wed Nov 3 17:58:13 2010 Message-Id: <00012E8F435843FE93D54F7C19F63892@homepc> From: "iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 94, Issue 5 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 21:58:26 -0000 Iris x dardanus. Considerable thanks to everyone who took the trouble to shine a bright light onto my ignorance. My assumption as to nomenclature was based on the absence of the convention for cultivar names i.e. presentation as I. 'Dardanus' missing from the initial query and kindly pointed out by David Victor & Robert Pries, to whom specifically, given that we have both putative parents here maybe I could take a punt at crossing them in both directions and see what they look like, although maintaining horticultural hybrids here isn't something I would normally consider but my nose is now bothering me; all I need to do next year is to try to remember to attempt it, an unreliable memory might conspire against the venture, one wonders of course whether respective flowering is synchronous in both taxa, otherwise such a project would take an extra season presumably. Once again, many thanks to everyone. Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 5:24 PM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 94, Issue 5 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Iris x dardanus (totototo@telus.net) > 2. Re: Banana leaf canna nomenclature question (totototo@telus.net) > 3. Iris 'Dardanus' (James Waddick) > 4. Re: Iris x dardanus (Adam Fikso) > 5. A few nerines (AW) > 6. Re: A few nerines (bulborum botanicum) > 7. Re: Iris "dardanus" (David Victor) > 8. Re: Iris "dardanus" (Robert Pries) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 11:50:55 -0700 > From: totototo@telus.net > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris x dardanus > Message-ID: <4CCFFB1F.15964.96DED9E@localhost> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > On 2 Nov 2010, at 12:12, iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org wrote: > >> It does not appear that either the name Iris dardanus or Iris x dardanus >> has >> been validly published in any of the International standard works, e.g. >> IPNI >> nor can I find it in Innes' standard reference work. > > "Dardanus" sure sounds like a cultivar name to me. Keep in mind that > before L. > H. Bailey coined the word & concept "cultivar", cultivated plants were > usually > referred to as "varieties". Moreover, Latinate cultivar names created > before a > cutoff date (in the 1950s if my fallible memory still functions) are > valid, > though they would not be valid if created today. > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 11:50:55 -0700 > From: totototo@telus.net > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Banana leaf canna nomenclature question > Message-ID: <4CCFFB1F.14941.96DEDAF@localhost> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > On 2 Nov 2010, at 11:48, christopherwhitehouse@rhs.org.uk wrote: > >> A name either has a description, in which case it is validly published, >> or it >> does not. > > Isn't there a provision that old epithets are considered "described" if > they > refer to a good illustration or a pre-Linnean verbal description? > > My memory of this may be wrong, but I recall it as a way of dealing with > epithets published post-Linnaeus but before the ICBN had come into being > with > its many strictures. > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 14:03:47 -0500 > From: James Waddick > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: [pbs] Iris 'Dardanus' > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > Friends: > > Iris 'Daranus' Van Tubergen, an undated hybrid between I. > korolkowii ( Section Regelia) x I. iberica (Section Oncocyclus). > The Van Tubergen Nursery Ltd, and Zwanenberg Nurseries in > Haarlem, Holland. specialized in Regeliocyclus hybrid iris and > introduced dozen of still popular cultivars. Most of these date to > the period from 1900-1920. > > This courtesy of the American Iris Society/ SIGNA cultivar > checklist and Bob Pries. > > Best Jim W. > > ps Cultivation info on the web site of the "Aril Society International" > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 17:03:21 -0500 > From: "Adam Fikso" > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris x dardanus > Message-ID: <5E82452B7F8549D1969F5BB846C00B32@FAMILY> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > "Dardanus' is a cultivar; a regeliocyclus, probably I. korolkowi x > I.iberica > or its reciprocal. and not the original clone but a remade cross > reselected > selected. . . I'd have to check--my memory isn't always right. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 1:50 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris x dardanus > > >> On 2 Nov 2010, at 12:12, iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org wrote: >> >>> It does not appear that either the name Iris dardanus or Iris x dardanus >>> has >>> been validly published in any of the International standard works, e.g. >>> IPNI >>> nor can I find it in Innes' standard reference work. >> >> "Dardanus" sure sounds like a cultivar name to me. Keep in mind that >> before L. >> H. Bailey coined the word & concept "cultivar", cultivated plants were >> usually >> referred to as "varieties". Moreover, Latinate cultivar names created >> before a >> cutoff date (in the 1950s if my fallible memory still functions) are >> valid, >> though they would not be valid if created today. >> >> >> -- >> Rodger Whitlock >> Victoria, British Columbia, Canada >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 17:06:39 -0700 > From: "AW" > To: > Subject: [pbs] A few nerines > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Even though they are a month late here are a few (4) nerines today. The > rain > helped. Have others on the Pacific coast seen this tardiness? > Many more to bloom - but, don't worry, I am not posting them! > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewrmw/ > > Andrew Wilson > San Diego > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 08:01:37 +0100 > From: bulborum botanicum > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] A few nerines > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hello Andrew > > nice nerines but they just have numbers > do you have some names > and what is > IMG_3829_1Roland > > > > 2010/11/3 AW > >> Even though they are a month late here are a few (4) nerines today. The >> rain >> helped. Have others on the Pacific coast seen this tardiness? >> Many more to bloom - but, don't worry, I am not posting them! >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewrmw/ >> >> Andrew Wilson >> San Diego >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > > > > -- > R de Boer > La Maugardiere 1 > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email: bulborum@gmail.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 09:07:38 +0000 > From: David Victor > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris "dardanus" > Message-ID: <816594.74792.qm@smtp818.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Iain, > > I think that the reason you can't find this taxon is because you are > looking for a botanical epithet, whereas it is a cultivar name for a > hybrid e.g. I. 'Dardanus'. These aren't listed on IPNI or the Kew > Database of Monocots. > > > Best regards, > David Victor > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 10:08:19 -0400 (EDT) > From: Robert Pries > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris "dardanus" > Message-ID: > <671987840.546403.1288793299505.JavaMail.root@md32.embarq.synacor.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Iain; You can find Dardanus in the Iris Encyclopedia that is under > construction available on the American Iris Society website. Unfortunately > no one has added a picture yet but by poking around with the various liks > you can see its parents and similar hybrids. It appears that Dardanus was > never properly registered but the website is attempting to show all irises > that have appeared in the literature or trade. If you get a picture you > may add it to the listing. Slowly we are asking many iris taxonomists and > fanciers to contribute but we only have 27,000 of the approximately 80,000 > listed and only about 20,000 photos. We welcome anyone who can contribute > their knowledge and photos, since it is a wiki being built by the world's > irisarians. It is free to all. Actually it is progressing rapidly for only > a 10 month old baby. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Victor" > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2010 5:07:38 AM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris "dardanus" > > Iain, > > I think that the reason you can't find this taxon is because you are > looking for a botanical epithet, whereas it is a cultivar name for a > hybrid e.g. I. 'Dardanus'. These aren't listed on IPNI or the Kew > Database of Monocots. > > > Best regards, > David Victor > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 94, Issue 5 > ********************************** -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 171537 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From adam14113@ameritech.net Wed Nov 3 18:31:20 2010 Message-Id: <2523E8AC7D3743F1BC745C64B38EAEEA@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 94, Issue 5 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 17:31:09 -0500 The original 'Dardanus' was fertile both ways with similar crosses, with many onco or regelia species, and occasionally (rarely) with tall bearded irises and to a greater extent with Clarence White cultivars--much depending on the CGW cv selected, age of flower and time of day. Much of this information is scattered through old Aril Society Yearbooks and not indexed. Just in old ASI members' heads (back 50 years) org" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] pbs Digest, Vol 94, Issue 5 > Iris x dardanus. > > Considerable thanks to everyone who took the trouble to shine a bright > light onto my ignorance. My assumption as to nomenclature was based on the > absence of the convention for cultivar names i.e. presentation as I. > 'Dardanus' missing from the initial query and kindly pointed out by David > Victor & Robert Pries, to whom specifically, given that we have both > putative parents here maybe I could take a punt at crossing them in both > directions and see what they look like, although maintaining horticultural > hybrids here isn't something I would normally consider but my nose is now > bothering me; all I need to do next year is to try to remember to attempt > it, an unreliable memory might conspire against the venture, one wonders > of course whether respective flowering is synchronous in both taxa, > otherwise such a project would take an extra season presumably. > > Once again, many thanks to everyone. Iain > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 5:24 PM > Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 94, Issue 5 > > >> Send pbs mailing list submissions to >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." >> >> >> List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Iris x dardanus (totototo@telus.net) >> 2. Re: Banana leaf canna nomenclature question (totototo@telus.net) >> 3. Iris 'Dardanus' (James Waddick) >> 4. Re: Iris x dardanus (Adam Fikso) >> 5. A few nerines (AW) >> 6. Re: A few nerines (bulborum botanicum) >> 7. Re: Iris "dardanus" (David Victor) >> 8. Re: Iris "dardanus" (Robert Pries) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 11:50:55 -0700 >> From: totototo@telus.net >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris x dardanus >> Message-ID: <4CCFFB1F.15964.96DED9E@localhost> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> >> On 2 Nov 2010, at 12:12, iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org wrote: >> >>> It does not appear that either the name Iris dardanus or Iris x dardanus >>> has >>> been validly published in any of the International standard works, e.g. >>> IPNI >>> nor can I find it in Innes' standard reference work. >> >> "Dardanus" sure sounds like a cultivar name to me. Keep in mind that >> before L. >> H. Bailey coined the word & concept "cultivar", cultivated plants were >> usually >> referred to as "varieties". Moreover, Latinate cultivar names created >> before a >> cutoff date (in the 1950s if my fallible memory still functions) are >> valid, >> though they would not be valid if created today. >> >> >> -- >> Rodger Whitlock >> Victoria, British Columbia, Canada >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 11:50:55 -0700 >> From: totototo@telus.net >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Banana leaf canna nomenclature question >> Message-ID: <4CCFFB1F.14941.96DEDAF@localhost> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> >> On 2 Nov 2010, at 11:48, christopherwhitehouse@rhs.org.uk wrote: >> >>> A name either has a description, in which case it is validly published, >>> or it >>> does not. >> >> Isn't there a provision that old epithets are considered "described" if >> they >> refer to a good illustration or a pre-Linnean verbal description? >> >> My memory of this may be wrong, but I recall it as a way of dealing with >> epithets published post-Linnaeus but before the ICBN had come into being >> with >> its many strictures. >> >> >> -- >> Rodger Whitlock >> Victoria, British Columbia, Canada >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 14:03:47 -0500 >> From: James Waddick >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Subject: [pbs] Iris 'Dardanus' >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >> >> Friends: >> >> Iris 'Daranus' Van Tubergen, an undated hybrid between I. >> korolkowii ( Section Regelia) x I. iberica (Section Oncocyclus). >> The Van Tubergen Nursery Ltd, and Zwanenberg Nurseries in >> Haarlem, Holland. specialized in Regeliocyclus hybrid iris and >> introduced dozen of still popular cultivars. Most of these date to >> the period from 1900-1920. >> >> This courtesy of the American Iris Society/ SIGNA cultivar >> checklist and Bob Pries. >> >> Best Jim W. >> >> ps Cultivation info on the web site of the "Aril Society International" >> -- >> Dr. James W. Waddick >> 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. >> Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 >> USA >> Ph. 816-746-1949 >> Zone 5 Record low -23F >> Summer 100F + >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 17:03:21 -0500 >> From: "Adam Fikso" >> To: "Pacific Bulb Society" >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris x dardanus >> Message-ID: <5E82452B7F8549D1969F5BB846C00B32@FAMILY> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> "Dardanus' is a cultivar; a regeliocyclus, probably I. korolkowi x >> I.iberica >> or its reciprocal. and not the original clone but a remade cross >> reselected >> selected. . . I'd have to check--my memory isn't always right. >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "Pacific Bulb Society" >> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 1:50 PM >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris x dardanus >> >> >>> On 2 Nov 2010, at 12:12, iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org wrote: >>> >>>> It does not appear that either the name Iris dardanus or Iris x >>>> dardanus >>>> has >>>> been validly published in any of the International standard works, e.g. >>>> IPNI >>>> nor can I find it in Innes' standard reference work. >>> >>> "Dardanus" sure sounds like a cultivar name to me. Keep in mind that >>> before L. >>> H. Bailey coined the word & concept "cultivar", cultivated plants were >>> usually >>> referred to as "varieties". Moreover, Latinate cultivar names created >>> before a >>> cutoff date (in the 1950s if my fallible memory still functions) are >>> valid, >>> though they would not be valid if created today. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Rodger Whitlock >>> Victoria, British Columbia, Canada >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 17:06:39 -0700 >> From: "AW" >> To: >> Subject: [pbs] A few nerines >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Even though they are a month late here are a few (4) nerines today. The >> rain >> helped. Have others on the Pacific coast seen this tardiness? >> Many more to bloom - but, don't worry, I am not posting them! >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewrmw/ >> >> Andrew Wilson >> San Diego >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 08:01:37 +0100 >> From: bulborum botanicum >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Subject: Re: [pbs] A few nerines >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Hello Andrew >> >> nice nerines but they just have numbers >> do you have some names >> and what is >> IMG_3829_1Roland >> >> >> >> 2010/11/3 AW >> >>> Even though they are a month late here are a few (4) nerines today. The >>> rain >>> helped. Have others on the Pacific coast seen this tardiness? >>> Many more to bloom - but, don't worry, I am not posting them! >>> >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewrmw/ >>> >>> Andrew Wilson >>> San Diego >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> R de Boer >> La Maugardiere 1 >> F 27260 EPAIGNES >> FRANCE >> >> Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 >> Email: bulborum@gmail.com >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 09:07:38 +0000 >> From: David Victor >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris "dardanus" >> Message-ID: <816594.74792.qm@smtp818.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >> >> Iain, >> >> I think that the reason you can't find this taxon is because you are >> looking for a botanical epithet, whereas it is a cultivar name for a >> hybrid e.g. I. 'Dardanus'. These aren't listed on IPNI or the Kew >> Database of Monocots. >> >> >> Best regards, >> David Victor >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 10:08:19 -0400 (EDT) >> From: Robert Pries >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris "dardanus" >> Message-ID: >> <671987840.546403.1288793299505.JavaMail.root@md32.embarq.synacor.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> Iain; You can find Dardanus in the Iris Encyclopedia that is under >> construction available on the American Iris Society website. >> Unfortunately no one has added a picture yet but by poking around with >> the various liks you can see its parents and similar hybrids. It appears >> that Dardanus was never properly registered but the website is attempting >> to show all irises that have appeared in the literature or trade. If you >> get a picture you may add it to the listing. Slowly we are asking many >> iris taxonomists and fanciers to contribute but we only have 27,000 of >> the approximately 80,000 listed and only about 20,000 photos. We welcome >> anyone who can contribute their knowledge and photos, since it is a wiki >> being built by the world's irisarians. It is free to all. Actually it is >> progressing rapidly for only a 10 month old baby. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "David Victor" >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2010 5:07:38 AM >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris "dardanus" >> >> Iain, >> >> I think that the reason you can't find this taxon is because you are >> looking for a botanical epithet, whereas it is a cultivar name for a >> hybrid e.g. I. 'Dardanus'. These aren't listed on IPNI or the Kew >> Database of Monocots. >> >> >> Best regards, >> David Victor >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> >> End of pbs Digest, Vol 94, Issue 5 >> ********************************** > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 171537 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From joshy46013@yahoo.com Wed Nov 3 18:34:29 2010 Message-Id: <917922.18069.qm@web52908.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Josh Young Subject: H. neopardinum, Is It Valid? / H. "Spotty" = H. neopardinum? Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 15:34:28 -0700 (PDT) Hi guys,     I've ran across Hippeastrum "Spotty" which seems identical to Hippeastrum neopardinum.  Does anyone have any information on this cultivar?  I can't seem to find a source for it, I would love the opportunity to see it in person!    Also, is H. neopardinum actually a described species?  I've noticed many people class neopardinum in with pardinum.  Is the true H. pardinum the one listed by Dennis on the IBS gallery, my H. pardinum is identical to his.    Does anyone have any offsets of H. neopardinum they'd like to trade? If so, shoot me an e-mail! Josh Anderson, IN From unjardinenfrance@gmail.com Wed Nov 3 19:49:55 2010 Message-Id: From: michelle pierce Subject: hello Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 00:49:54 +0100 Hi everyone, I'm new to the pbs but looking forward to learning lots about irises. In France, where I live, it seems very difficult (almost impossible ) to get hold of Pacific coast iris. Does anyone know of anywhere I can get some? Michelle Pierce From Santoury@aol.com Wed Nov 3 19:52:57 2010 Message-Id: <8CD49C95585F667-1868-6DA8@webmail-stg-d15.sysops.aol.com> From: santoury@aol.com Subject: hello Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 19:52:40 -0400 Greetings! Are you speaking of Iris cristata? I have it and would be happy to share. -----Original Message----- From: michelle pierce To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Wed, Nov 3, 2010 7:49 pm Subject: [pbs] hello Hi everyone, I'm new to the pbs but looking forward to learning lots about irises. In France, where I live, it seems very difficult (almost impossible ) to get hold of Pacific coast iris. Does anyone know of anywhere I can get some? Michelle Pierce From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Wed Nov 3 19:54:39 2010 Message-Id: <836097.43165.qm@web86307.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: hello Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 23:54:35 +0000 (GMT) Hi Michelle   Broadleigh Gardens have the largest range of these in the UK. http://www.broadleighbulbs.co.uk/ They export within the EU so you have no problem buying from them.   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 --- On Wed, 3/11/10, michelle pierce wrote: From: michelle pierce Subject: [pbs] hello To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Date: Wednesday, 3 November, 2010, 23:49 Hi everyone, I'm new to the pbs but looking forward to learning lots about irises. In France, where I live, it seems very difficult (almost impossible ) to get hold of Pacific coast iris. Does anyone know of anywhere I can get some? Michelle Pierce _______________________________________________ From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Wed Nov 3 19:56:06 2010 Message-Id: <8047.48857.qm@web86307.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: hello Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 23:56:04 +0000 (GMT) Should be http://www.broadleighbulbs.co.uk/ of course. Sorry --- On Wed, 3/11/10, Brian Whyer wrote: From: Brian Whyer Subject: Re: [pbs] hello To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Wednesday, 3 November, 2010, 23:54 Hi Michelle   Broadleigh Gardens have the largest range of these in the UK. http://www.broadleighbulbs.co.uk/ They export within the EU so you have no problem buying from them.   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 --- On Wed, 3/11/10, michelle pierce wrote: From: michelle pierce Subject: [pbs] hello To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Date: Wednesday, 3 November, 2010, 23:49 Hi everyone, I'm new to the pbs but looking forward to learning lots about irises. In France, where I live, it seems very difficult (almost impossible ) to get hold of Pacific coast iris. Does anyone know of anywhere I can get some? Michelle Pierce _______________________________________________ From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Wed Nov 3 19:57:32 2010 Message-Id: <15925.77391.qm@web86302.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: hello Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 23:57:29 +0000 (GMT) What a pain. Try http://www.broadleighbulbs.co.uk/ --- On Wed, 3/11/10, Brian Whyer wrote: From: Brian Whyer Subject: Re: [pbs] hello To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Wednesday, 3 November, 2010, 23:56 Should be http://www.broadleighbulbs.co.uk/ of course. Sorry --- On Wed, 3/11/10, Brian Whyer wrote: From: Brian Whyer Subject: Re: [pbs] hello To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Wednesday, 3 November, 2010, 23:54 Hi Michelle   Broadleigh Gardens have the largest range of these in the UK. http://www.broadleighbulbs.co.uk/ They export within the EU so you have no problem buying from them.   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 --- On Wed, 3/11/10, michelle pierce wrote: From: michelle pierce Subject: [pbs] hello To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Date: Wednesday, 3 November, 2010, 23:49 Hi everyone, I'm new to the pbs but looking forward to learning lots about irises. In France, where I live, it seems very difficult (almost impossible ) to get hold of Pacific coast iris. Does anyone know of anywhere I can get some? Michelle Pierce _______________________________________________ From unjardinenfrance@gmail.com Wed Nov 3 20:07:49 2010 Message-Id: From: michelle pierce Subject: hello Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 01:07:47 +0100 Hello Well, iris cristata is also on my wish list so if you can give me some I'd be very happy ! Michelle 2010/11/4 > Greetings! > Are you speaking of Iris cristata? I have it and would be happy to share. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: michelle pierce > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Sent: Wed, Nov 3, 2010 7:49 pm > Subject: [pbs] hello > > > Hi everyone, > I'm new to the pbs but looking forward to learning lots about irises. In > France, where I live, it seems very difficult (almost impossible ) to get > hold of Pacific coast iris. Does anyone know of anywhere I can get some? > Michelle Pierce > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Nov 3 20:08:42 2010 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: hello Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 19:08:03 -0500 Dear Michelle, You wrote : Pacific coast iris. Does anyone know of anywhere I can get some? You should contact the Society for Pacific Coast Native Iris http://www.pacificcoastiris.org/ And the Species Iris Group of North America http://signa.org/index.pl?Intro Both have active seed exchanges, which is he best way to get involved with wild iris species. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From unjardinenfrance@gmail.com Wed Nov 3 20:10:00 2010 Message-Id: From: michelle pierce Subject: hello Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 01:09:59 +0100 Hi Brian Thanks for the tip. I've been in touch with broadleigh and they have some but a lot are out of stock for the moment,it seems. And I'm tormented by gorgeous images from the net! Michelle 2010/11/4 Brian Whyer > What a pain. Try > http://www.broadleighbulbs.co.uk/ > > > --- On Wed, 3/11/10, Brian Whyer wrote: > > > From: Brian Whyer > Subject: Re: [pbs] hello > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Date: Wednesday, 3 November, 2010, 23:56 > > > Should be http://www.broadleighbulbs.co.uk/ of course. Sorry > > --- On Wed, 3/11/10, Brian Whyer wrote: > > > From: Brian Whyer > Subject: Re: [pbs] hello > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Date: Wednesday, 3 November, 2010, 23:54 > > > Hi Michelle > > Broadleigh Gardens have the largest range of these in the UK. > http://www.broadleighbulbs.co.uk/ They export within the EU so you have no > problem buying from them. > > Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 > > --- On Wed, 3/11/10, michelle pierce wrote: > > > From: michelle pierce > Subject: [pbs] hello > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Wednesday, 3 November, 2010, 23:49 > > > Hi everyone, > I'm new to the pbs but looking forward to learning lots about irises. In > France, where I live, it seems very difficult (almost impossible ) to get > hold of Pacific coast iris. Does anyone know of anywhere I can get some? > Michelle Pierce > _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jonathan.knisely@yale.edu Wed Nov 3 20:17:59 2010 Message-Id: From: "Knisely, Jonathan" Subject: Worsleya procera Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 20:17:56 -0400 I went onto Ebay to look for 36 cm+ sized amaryllis hybrid bulbs for Christmas gifts to neighbors. I almost by accident saw a listing for a single offset of Worsleya procera, with the current price of ~$32 US. http://cgi.ebay.com/Worsleya-procera-blue-Amaryllis-/320611904948?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PlantsSeedsBulbs_JN&hash=item4aa5f56db4 It is being offered by an individual in Italy. I am unsure whether or not it is only going to really be accessible to individuals in Europe. The cultural conditions for this bulb's optimal growth are more than I could manage with my current situation, so I just kept on going. I hope that the individual who had placed the sole bid on this rarity won't curse my name for having brought it to the attention of the PBS listserv, but greater interest will spur greater availability (hopefully in the intermediate run). Jonathan Knisely New Haven, CT USDA 6a Frost on the grass in the morning From mmattus@charter.net Wed Nov 3 20:31:16 2010 Message-Id: From: Matt Mattus Subject: Nerine notes in MA Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 20:31:10 -0400 Well, as long as we are all chatting about Nerine, I might as well share my images on my Flickr page from last week. http://www.flickr.com/photos/exploraculture/page2/ I also posted some on my blog Growing with plants.com, where there are more. I planted some N. sarniensis ten years ago along the foundation of the greenhouse in the alpine garden, and although they send up foliage every autumn, never a bloom. I may have planted them too deeply ( I think I buried them about a foot deep). I tried photographing all of my collection this year, since most bloomed, so that I could have an image with the name tag, and the blossom, but they are so challenging to photograph. I spent three days shooting each stem with a label, but they looked nothing like the real, live, blossom. I finally decided to just pick them all, and arrange them on a board in the garden, arranged in floral foam by color. I figured that a nice photoshoot was worth a few seeds! Matt Mattus Worcester, MA USA Zone 5b On 11/3/10 5:26 PM, "Ellen Hornig" wrote: > I put a group of N. bowdenii in the garden this year, near the south-facing > wall of the garage, and they're all in full bloom now, seemingly unperturbed > by the fairly significant freeze we had last night (down to at least 28F). > This clone, which I confess I got on eBay years ago, has always been quite > frost-tolerant in containers (I'd bring them onto the deck to admire when > they came in bloom). It's also free-blooming, and multiplies like crazy. > I'll be interested to see whether the ones I planted out reappear in spring. > > Ellen > > Ellen Hornig > Seneca Hill Perennials > 3712 County Route 57 > Oswego NY 13126 USA > www.senecahillperennials.com > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From xerantheum@gmail.com Wed Nov 3 20:32:01 2010 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Oxalis: was A few Nerines Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 17:31:59 -0700 Hi, I would love to hear Mike's success with planting Oxalis in the ground. Everyone I know grow them in containers. Mike, can you elaborate? Nhu Berkeley, CA On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 12:34 PM, AW wrote: > Hi Mike! > > Also glad to hear your Oxalis are thriving. You planted them out, as I > recall. But, that's a different topic, and one that may bore people! > -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/ From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Nov 3 20:41:57 2010 Message-Id: <391146A6-A961-418E-9039-1090E26BEC59@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: hello Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 17:41:55 -0700 Michelle, I just sent a sandwich bag full of Pacific Coast iris seeds to Nicole Grimardias who has a nursery in France. In a couple of years there should be several hundred plants available. Diane Whitehead Canada On 3-Nov-10, at 5:09 PM, michelle pierce wrote: >> . In >> France, where I live, it seems very difficult (almost impossible ) >> to get >> hold of Pacific coast iris. Does anyone know of anywhere I can get >> some? >> Michelle Pierce From Santoury@aol.com Wed Nov 3 20:48:18 2010 Message-Id: <8CD49D10CAFFD0A-1868-7257@webmail-stg-d15.sysops.aol.com> From: santoury@aol.com Subject: hello Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 20:47:53 -0400 Sure! I'd be happy to send some to you - not sure if you have any tropicals to trade? -----Original Message----- From: michelle pierce To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Wed, Nov 3, 2010 8:07 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] hello Hello Well, iris cristata is also on my wish list so if you can give me some I'd be very happy ! Michelle 2010/11/4 > Greetings! > Are you speaking of Iris cristata? I have it and would be happy to share. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: michelle pierce > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Sent: Wed, Nov 3, 2010 7:49 pm > Subject: [pbs] hello > > > Hi everyone, > I'm new to the pbs but looking forward to learning lots about irises. In > France, where I live, it seems very difficult (almost impossible ) to get > hold of Pacific coast iris. Does anyone know of anywhere I can get some? > Michelle Pierce > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From Santoury@aol.com Wed Nov 3 20:49:27 2010 Message-Id: <8CD49D13BB338CA-1868-7270@webmail-stg-d15.sysops.aol.com> From: santoury@aol.com Subject: Nerine notes in MA Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 20:49:12 -0400 I am in MA too - do you know where I might be able to get some - perhaps through a trade? -----Original Message----- From: Matt Mattus To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Wed, Nov 3, 2010 8:31 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] Nerine notes in MA Well, as long as we are all chatting about Nerine, I might as well share my images on my Flickr page from last week. http://www.flickr.com/photos/exploraculture/page2/ I also posted some on my blog Growing with plants.com, where there are more. I planted some N. sarniensis ten years ago along the foundation of the greenhouse in the alpine garden, and although they send up foliage every autumn, never a bloom. I may have planted them too deeply ( I think I buried them about a foot deep). I tried photographing all of my collection this year, since most bloomed, so that I could have an image with the name tag, and the blossom, but they are so challenging to photograph. I spent three days shooting each stem with a label, but they looked nothing like the real, live, blossom. I finally decided to just pick them all, and arrange them on a board in the garden, arranged in floral foam by color. I figured that a nice photoshoot was worth a few seeds! Matt Mattus Worcester, MA USA Zone 5b On 11/3/10 5:26 PM, "Ellen Hornig" wrote: > I put a group of N. bowdenii in the garden this year, near the south-facing > wall of the garage, and they're all in full bloom now, seemingly unperturbed > by the fairly significant freeze we had last night (down to at least 28F). > This clone, which I confess I got on eBay years ago, has always been quite > frost-tolerant in containers (I'd bring them onto the deck to admire when > they came in bloom). It's also free-blooming, and multiplies like crazy. > I'll be interested to see whether the ones I planted out reappear in spring. > > Ellen > > Ellen Hornig > Seneca Hill Perennials > 3712 County Route 57 > Oswego NY 13126 USA > www.senecahillperennials.com > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From mmattus@charter.net Wed Nov 3 20:59:39 2010 Message-Id: From: Matt Mattus Subject: Nerine notes in MA Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 20:59:30 -0400 I can trade, or give you some! Contact me offline. mmattus@charter.net On 11/3/10 8:49 PM, "santoury@aol.com" wrote: > I am in MA too - do you know where I might be able to get some - perhaps > through a trade? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matt Mattus > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: Wed, Nov 3, 2010 8:31 pm > Subject: Re: [pbs] Nerine notes in MA > > > Well, as long as we are all chatting about Nerine, I might as well share my > images on my Flickr page from last week. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/exploraculture/page2/ > > I also posted some on my blog Growing with plants.com, where there are more. > I planted some N. sarniensis ten years ago along the foundation of the > greenhouse in the alpine garden, and although they send up foliage every > autumn, never a bloom. I may have planted them too deeply ( I think I buried > them about a foot deep). > > I tried photographing all of my collection this year, since most bloomed, so > that I could have an image with the name tag, and the blossom, but they are > so challenging to photograph. I spent three days shooting each stem with a > label, but they looked nothing like the real, live, blossom. > > I finally decided to just pick them all, and arrange them on a board in the > garden, arranged in floral foam by color. I figured that a nice photoshoot > was worth a few seeds! > > Matt Mattus > Worcester, MA USA > Zone 5b > > > On 11/3/10 5:26 PM, "Ellen Hornig" wrote: > >> I put a group of N. bowdenii in the garden this year, near the south-facing >> wall of the garage, and they're all in full bloom now, seemingly unperturbed >> by the fairly significant freeze we had last night (down to at least 28F). >> This clone, which I confess I got on eBay years ago, has always been quite >> frost-tolerant in containers (I'd bring them onto the deck to admire when >> they came in bloom). It's also free-blooming, and multiplies like crazy. >> I'll be interested to see whether the ones I planted out reappear in spring. >> >> Ellen >> >> Ellen Hornig >> Seneca Hill Perennials >> 3712 County Route 57 >> Oswego NY 13126 USA >> www.senecahillperennials.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From awilson@avonia.com Wed Nov 3 21:02:21 2010 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: hello Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 18:04:14 -0700 Michelle, Are you referring to I. douglasiana, the Douglas Iris, that grows all the way up and down California? It is being sold here in native plant sales right now. But, in your case, it might be easier to start from seed, which develop quite quickly, although not in one year. Seed is surely available in France - try Chantal Guiraud at http://www.mediterraneangardensociety.org/seedlist.html Andrew San Diego Hi everyone, I'm new to the pbs but looking forward to learning lots about irises. In France, where I live, it seems very difficult (almost impossible ) to get hold of Pacific coast iris. Does anyone know of anywhere I can get some? Michelle Pierce From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Nov 3 21:33:00 2010 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Nerine and garden notes in NY Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 18:32:55 -0700 Some Nerine bowdenii bloom early here and have formed seeds already. Others continue blooming throughout November. Perhaps you should grow some from seed so that you can develop some earlier ones. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers On 3-Nov-10, at 2:17 PM, pelarg@aol.com wrote: > Nerine bowdenii The bulbs appear to be perfectly hardy but the > flowers come so late From oothal@hotmail.com Wed Nov 3 21:38:25 2010 Message-Id: From: Justin Smith Subject: Worsleya procera lack of growth Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 20:33:22 -0500 Hi all, I have several seedlings of Worsleya and all they do is just sit there. Everytime a new leaf appears an old leaf dies. I have them in pure pumice. I am thinking I am not doing something right. They get no direct sunlight. Full Texas sun is not tolerated by a lot of plants that I have tried. Any suggestions with fertilizer humidity ect. would be appreciated. Justin Woodville, TX 8b/9a From totototo@telus.net Wed Nov 3 21:55:33 2010 Message-Id: <4CD1B022.25892.280E9@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: hello Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 18:55:30 -0700 On 4 Nov 2010, at 0:49, michelle pierce wrote: > In France, where I live, it seems very difficult (almost impossible ) to get > hold of Pacific coast iris. Does anyone know of anywhere I can get some? I suggest that you acquire seed from one of the many specialist societies, among which are... 1. Alpine Garden Society (UK) 2. Scottish Rock Garden Club 3. North American Rock Garden Society 4. Species Iris Group of North America (SIGNA) 5. Hardy Plant Society (UK - at one time and possibly even now a good source for seed of highly developed garden forms) Pacific Coast irises are very easy from seed, and reach flowering size within a few years. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada From mikemace@att.net Thu Nov 4 01:08:37 2010 Message-Id: <001901cb7bde$55ed1cb0$01c75610$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Oxalis in the ground Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 22:08:34 -0700 >> I would love to hear Mike's success with planting Oxalis in the ground. Alas, the news is not good. When I first got my Oxalis bulbs from Michael Vassar, I noticed that a lot of them (especially the Oxalis obtusa varieties) produced copious offsets. So I decided to try some of the extras in the ground. I did it in two locations: A flat, well drained area with low competition from other plants; and a rockery area in which I could slip the bulbs between stones. Both locations do not get summer water. In both areas, the bulbs bloomed well the first year, but faded away over the next couple of years. Meanwhile, the ones in the pots continued to reproduce. I don't know why the ones in ground failed. Maybe they just don't like the local soil (which is heavy clay). I also know that the local mice love to dig them up and eat them. But they could not have dug up the bulbs that were between rocks. So I have a mystery. People who think all Oxalis are invasive haven't tried to grow them in the ground. Mike San Jose, CA From mikemace@att.net Thu Nov 4 01:27:50 2010 Message-Id: <001a01cb7be1$04a9b540$0dfd1fc0$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: A few Nerines Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 22:27:47 -0700 Nice to be in touch with you again, Andrew. You wrote: >>I think we may have been two of the few people who requested nerine bulbs from that Zienkowski I don't know how many people took those bulbs, but it was a great way to get started with Nerines. Steve V. deserves endless praise for all of the time he put into that rescue. Which reminds me -- listen up, PBS members. If you have a bulb collection with anything rare in it, make some sort of arrangements to get it distributed to others after you're no longer on the scene. Your family won't know to contact people on this list (or any other forum) unless you give them instructions. I thought the late Les Hannibal handled this well. He gave his best crosses to family, and then invited us to come dig bulbs from the rest. He did something nice for others, and at the same time helped to preserve his hybridizing work. On the other hand, Jack Zinkowski died without making any arrangements for his bulbs. The bulbs were almost thrown out, and no one ever found his breeding records. So we have a lot of nice-looking Nerines with names like "J-36," and there is no way to tell what that means, or what other plants it ought to be crossed with. >>(Nerines:) Mine are still doing well, requiring almost no attention - which is probably why they are doing so well. Many are in the same pots as when I first potted them up - was it 1996? 199-something, yes. Mine too seemed fairly content in their original pots, but eventually I decided they needed a nice repotting. I have been very pleased with the results. Mike San Jose, CA From awilson@avonia.com Thu Nov 4 02:26:31 2010 Message-Id: <3E88C702F7274D6B83F9E5F75AA9E2F5@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: Nerine notes in MA Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 23:28:20 -0700 Your cut stem blooms look beautiful, Matt. They are not the easiest subjects for photographing. Andrew Wilson San Diego > Well, as long as we are all chatting about Nerine, I might as well > share my images on my Flickr page from last week. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/exploraculture/page2/ > > I tried photographing all of my collection this year, since most > bloomed, so that I could have an image with the name tag, and the > blossom, but they are so challenging to photograph. I spent three days > shooting each stem with a label, but they looked nothing like the real, live, blossom. > > I finally decided to just pick them all, and arrange them on a board > in the garden, arranged in floral foam by color. I figured that a nice > photoshoot was worth a few seeds! > > Matt Mattus > Worcester, MA USA > Zone 5b From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Thu Nov 4 03:31:24 2010 Message-Id: <004b01cb7bf2$472c0380$2301a8c0@MAINPC> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Nerine notes Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 07:31:21 -0000 I wrote a series of posts on Nerine on my blog last week, which members might find interesting. Matt Mattus's beautiful pictures of cut stems remind me that at the Nerine & Amaryllid Society meeting last Saturday the subject of virus - often a problem in Nerine - was raised. It was suggested that a principle method of transmission was through cutting the flowers and passing it on in the sap from plant to plant, so it may be wise to clean the knife with spirit between each plant while cutting stems. John Grimshaw Visit John Grimshaw's Garden Diary http://johngrimshawsgardendiary.blogspot.com/ Dr. John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Mattus" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 12:31 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Nerine notes in MA > Well, as long as we are all chatting about Nerine, I might as well share > my > images on my Flickr page from last week. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/exploraculture/page2/ > > From mmattus@charter.net Thu Nov 4 07:43:15 2010 Message-Id: From: Matt Mattus Subject: Nerine notes Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 07:43:11 -0400 Interesting, John, I never think about such things. Good information to have. As an FYI, I snapped the stems off by hand. I wonder what commercial growers do about such virus? I have to admit that I rarely fuss over such things since I am not a serious grower or collector of the genus, they just do well for me for some reason, which keeps me curious about them. For two years now I almost moved them to the compost pile to make room for other genera, then, this year, they almost all bloomed, (clearly, they trying to send me a signal!) Matt Matt Mattus Worcester, MA USA On 11/4/10 3:31 AM, "John Grimshaw" wrote: > I wrote a series of posts on Nerine on my blog last week, which members > might find interesting. > > Matt Mattus's beautiful pictures of cut stems remind me that at the Nerine & > Amaryllid Society meeting last Saturday the subject of virus - often a > problem in Nerine - was raised. It was suggested that a principle method of > transmission was through cutting the flowers and passing it on in the sap > from plant to plant, so it may be wise to clean the knife with spirit > between each plant while cutting stems. > >> > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From christopherwhitehouse@rhs.org.uk Thu Nov 4 07:50:28 2010 Message-Id: <76597B6CEABBC84BB63097BF023290B315C8F7BB8B@VSM07MBX.rhs.net> From: Subject: Banana leaf canna nomenclature question Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 11:50:25 +0000 >> A name either has a description, in which case it is validly published, or it >> does not. >Isn't there a provision that old epithets are considered "described" if >they refer to a good illustration or a pre-Linnean verbal description? You are right that the name does not necessarily need an accompanying description but a new name must refer directly or indirectly to one that has been previously published (I don't think an illustration will do, although most illustrations also have text with them that will suffice; illustrations can be used as types for older names). However, it is recommended that the description was not one prior to Linnaeus (i.e. 1753) - this is a recommendation not a rule as many of Linnaeus' names were published only by referring to earlier descriptions. Chris From arnold140@verizon.net Thu Nov 4 08:12:05 2010 Message-Id: <787134729.343830.1288872724808.JavaMail.root@vznit170072> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: A few Nerines Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 07:12:04 -0500 (CDT) Mike: I was able to get a couple of the Zinkowski Nerines way back. I grew them under HID lights and the actually flowered. They now sit in a brand new greenhouse. One is pushing up a scape. It's the one called Blanchfleur. I believe there is a picture on the Wiki of it. My experience with them is that they are very tough bulbs and given the minimum care they'll flower. Arnold New Jersey From jshields@indy.net Thu Nov 4 09:12:51 2010 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20101104090652.047b86f0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Nerine and garden notes in NY Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 09:12:49 -0400 Hi, I have one lone Nerine bowdenii in bud in the greenhouse at the moment. I grow all my nerines in pots, but I did try some outdoors in the ground ca 10 years ago. All were one clone of bowdenii, which was hardy with mulch in fields in The Netherlands. Most died, and certainly none bloomed while in the ground. In pots in the greenhouse in winter and outdoors in a lath house in summer, the various bowdenii seem to do fairly well. Many bloom each year, mainly in November or December. Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 From idavide@sbcglobal.net Thu Nov 4 14:52:45 2010 Message-Id: <560201.90910.qm@web81003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Window flowers Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 11:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Dear members, Has anyone done an investigation into why some flowers develop windows in their petals?  I came to that question this morning when I noticed a late bloom on my Cypella herbertii (yes, they do have an exceedingly long season, but we've been having unseasonably warm and wet weather lately here on the S.F. Peninsula).  I noticed that the portion of the outer tepals which form the cup are transparent.  In most photos this portion looks white, but it is actually hyaline (or at any rate, it was on this morning's blossom).  There are other plants noted for transparent windows in their petals.  Are there any theories about how these might have evolved? David E. From ds429@comcast.net Thu Nov 4 17:06:46 2010 Message-Id: <005501cb7c63$251041a0$6f30c4e0$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 258 Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 16:59:17 -0400 Dear Tommie, I am filling orders for BX 258 and have not received a real order from you. Do you want anything? Dell -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of TOMMIE GILLAM Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 2:28 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 258 From tjgillam@hughes.net Thu Nov 4 18:37:43 2010 Message-Id: <1205283340.181083.1288910259381.JavaMail.mail@webmail10> From: TOMMIE GILLAM Subject: Pacific BX 258 Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 22:37:39 +0000 (GMT) From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Nov 4 20:12:08 2010 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Neomarica Notes Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 19:11:44 -0500 Friends, A few years ago I collected a half dozen or so species of Neomarica, a South American Irid. The commonest variety, N. candida, is called walking iris because after blooming, the flower stalk develops young terminal plantlets that root and spread the plant a few feet each year. As frost approaches, I cleaned up pots that summered outdoors and sure enough I had three plants of N. candida soundly rooted around the pot. Just like they are 'supposed' to do. I never noticed any of my other plants make these terminal plantlets until today. There was a young plant of N. coerulea 'Regina' 'walking' away from the mother pot. All pots cleaned up of weeds and dead leaves and stored in the greenhouse as the forecast calls for as low as 29 F tonight. I do know better as these cannot take any frost under my conditions. Any similar experiences? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From Santoury@aol.com Thu Nov 4 20:16:23 2010 Message-Id: <8CD4A95C555BBDC-9C8-FF63@webmail-stg-m04.sysops.aol.com> From: santoury@aol.com Subject: Neomarica Notes Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 20:16:05 -0400 Hello, If you are talking about the mother plant making babies that pop up out from the bottom holes of a pot? Sure , they do that - it's not common, but most Neomarica have a pretty significant rhizome, which can sprout youngsters. That said, any interest in parting with some of the youngsters? Best, Jude -----Original Message----- From: James Waddick To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Thu, Nov 4, 2010 8:11 pm Subject: [pbs] Neomarica Notes Friends, A few years ago I collected a half dozen or so species of Neomarica, a South American Irid. The commonest variety, N. candida, is called walking iris because after blooming, the flower stalk develops young terminal plantlets that root and spread the plant a few feet each year. As frost approaches, I cleaned up pots that summered outdoors and sure enough I had three plants of N. candida soundly rooted around the pot. Just like they are 'supposed' to do. I never noticed any of my other plants make these terminal plantlets until today. There was a young plant of N. coerulea 'Regina' 'walking' away from the mother pot. All pots cleaned up of weeds and dead leaves and stored in the greenhouse as the forecast calls for as low as 29 F tonight. I do know better as these cannot take any frost under my conditions. Any similar experiences? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From tjgillam@hughes.net Thu Nov 4 20:17:41 2010 Message-Id: <1737650174.184669.1288916258864.JavaMail.mail@webmail10> From: TOMMIE GILLAM Subject: Pacific BX 258 Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 00:17:38 +0000 (GMT) Just a note on the Remusatia vivipar and R. pumila. The materials donated are bulbils, not seed and are best surface sown in a cool area where they will grow into plants in the spring. From awilson@avonia.com Thu Nov 4 21:39:57 2010 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: Oxalis in the ground Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 18:42:01 -0700 Mike, I was interested by your experiences with Oxalis in the ground as you had initially claimed great success with them. I suspect that heavy clay may be a problem there and I also suspect that planting bulbs under just a few stones is not helpful. While I lost many also, especially ten yers ago, but I have also had some success. Clay soil problem is not present here except for a few patches in the garden where it appears near the surface. I avoid those spots. After numerous attempts with spare bulbs over the years, only a few species like O. purpurea were found to survive rodent attacks if not protected in some way. With other species, the best way I've found for them them succeed is to overlay bulb plantings with brick pathways, a technique that some iridaceous bulbs showed me. Under bricks laid out with only tiny spaces between them, the bulbs are protected from rodent digging. This is specially effective if the bulbs are not close to the pathway edges or if the pathway has a brick subterranean edging to discourage oxalis escaping outwards or rodents digging inwards. This has worked for all species tried but it is less successful for species with thick stems, like O. bowiea. The stems somehow find a way to come up between the bricks. The only penalties are that, once in place, you must leave them for years and that you must be prepared to limit your use of the brick pathway during wintertime when they are in leaf and in bloom. They increase slowly in number and, as the species chosen do not seed here, there is no escape issue to worry about. Your planting in rockeries did not, I suspect, provide adequate protection against rodents. Here, chaparral pack rats are the worst offenders. Mice at least eat the bulbs; pack rats use them in huge numbers to line their nests. You could try much deeper planting or you could apply thick scree. I am still experimenting with a grit and small stone scree mix. So far, it is working, although it upsets me each spring at the start of dormancy to see the rodents have dug up young bulbs that ended up near the surface by the end of the growing season. These methods might work in your area. I don't know. Much as I enjoy pot-grown specimens I really prefer to have them planted out. Oxalis are at their best in great numbers. But, pot protection for them incurs an enormous amount of work, as it does for all my non-amaryllis or non-hyacinth family bulbs. Andrew San Diego -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Michael Mace Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:09 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] Oxalis in the ground >> I would love to hear Mike's success with planting Oxalis in the ground. Alas, the news is not good. When I first got my Oxalis bulbs from Michael Vassar, I noticed that a lot of them (especially the Oxalis obtusa varieties) produced copious offsets. So I decided to try some of the extras in the ground. I did it in two locations: A flat, well drained area with low competition from other plants; and a rockery area in which I could slip the bulbs between stones. Both locations do not get summer water. In both areas, the bulbs bloomed well the first year, but faded away over the next couple of years. Meanwhile, the ones in the pots continued to reproduce. I don't know why the ones in ground failed. Maybe they just don't like the local soil (which is heavy clay). I also know that the local mice love to dig them up and eat them. But they could not have dug up the bulbs that were between rocks. So I have a mystery. People who think all Oxalis are invasive haven't tried to grow them in the ground. Mike San Jose, CA From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Nov 5 01:24:53 2010 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Neomarica Notes Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 23:47:39 -0500 >Dear Jude > > If you are talking about the mother plant making babies that >pop up out from the bottom holes of a pot? NO not at all. The commonest Walking iris produce young plants on the end of elongated flower talks. These are specialized, flattened stalks that remain green and active for a long time after flowering. >That said, any interest in parting with some of the youngsters? Some are heading for Dell by the end of the week. Look out Dell. Best Jim -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From Santoury@aol.com Fri Nov 5 01:27:40 2010 Message-Id: <8CD4AC144777258-E54-11805@webmail-stg-m05.sysops.aol.com> From: santoury@aol.com Subject: Neomarica Notes Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2010 01:27:26 -0400 Hello OK, yes, I am perfectly familiar with the pups forming at the end of the flowering "stems." So, what were you talking about, if not those? >Dear Jude > > If you are talking about the mother plant making babies that >pop up out from the bottom holes of a pot? NO not at all. The commonest Walking iris produce young plants on the end of elongated flower talks. These are specialized, flattened stalks that remain green and active for a long time after flowering. >That said, any interest in parting with some of the youngsters? Some are heading for Dell by the end of the week. Look out Dell. Best Jim -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From daverpoole@hotmail.com Fri Nov 5 10:04:32 2010 Message-Id: From: Dave Poole Subject: Neomarica Notes Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 13:59:30 +0000 N. gracilis and I believe N. northiana also produce adventitious plants on the flower spikes. Many years ago, I grew big clumps of N. gracilis in large hanging planters and they made very imposing specimens as they cascaded over the edges. They were kept in a frost-free greenhouse and several grew to well over 1m. across. When they were in flower they were spectacular and even at other times, they looked seriously 'purposeful' and often raised comment. Unfortunately, Neomaricas aren't widely grown in the UK and it took quite a while to track down some plants earlier this year. I finally acquired a good clump of gracilis from an enthusiast who lives in the north of the county and now have 4 really nice plants, having given several away to friends. They are currently in 18cm. diameter pots and have several growths each with leaves up to 40cms long. I've used a very humus rich compost that is mixed with perlite to aid good drainage and aeration. They are kept very moist and continue to grow strongly even though were are almost in winter with rapidly decreasing light levels. As foliage plants they are handsome enough with their glossy leaves and prominent central vein and I look forward to seeing the reddish-brown barred, white flowers with flashes of blue - hopefully next summer. For this year I am keeping the plants under frost free cover, but plan to experiment with one or two in shady moist parts of the garden over the next year or so. Ignoring last winter, which was unusually cold and hopefully a one-in-30yr.event, I normally only see the very occasional, short-lived dip to around -2C. With a bit of luck normal winters with average days of 11C and nights of 5C will return and enable this plant to be grown outside. If not, I will just grow them in pots and put them out in summer. From daverpoole@hotmail.com Fri Nov 5 10:53:14 2010 Message-Id: From: Dave Poole Subject: A few Nerines Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 14:53:12 +0000 I only have a very few Nerines, but those that are here have put on a good display again this autumn. The first to flower is always a fine red sarniensis, which I 've grown outside for the past 4 or 5 years. It is in a pot and largely ignored for much of the time. I don't worry about the bulbs getting wet in summer although they often get a good baking since I have the pot in an exposed position. Even last winter's unusually cold spell failed to damage the bulbs or leaves and the clump managed 8 spikes this year, the first opening in late September with the last still open. A clump of ordinary bowdenii started flowering during October and are still holding their own. This is by far the commonest species grown here in the UK and it is not unusual to see long borders filled with them, forming a mass of many hundreds of flower heads at this time of year. I'm never quite sure about the colour, but can't deny they add to the autumn scene. There's a bruiser of a bowdenii hybrid that I had and now want to plant in this garden. It is 'Zeal Giant', which is like bowdenii on steroids and an absolute show-stopper whenever it flowers. Happily, it seems quite hardy given gravelly soil and planty of sun. Currently, N. flexuosa 'alba' is looking very flashy with its pert, tightly clustered, crystalline white flowers on 30-40 cms stems. I started off with a single small bulb a few years ago and it is developing into a good clump. It gets much the same treatment as sarniensis and seems to thrive on neglect. This Nerine appears to be remarkably hardy here and even though the bulbs are almost completely exposed, no damage was incurred during a week of sub-zero temperatures, which nearly froze the pots. From idavide@sbcglobal.net Fri Nov 5 13:06:32 2010 Message-Id: <646043.81883.qm@web81008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Neomarica Notes Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 10:06:30 -0700 (PDT) My N. northiana invades other pots, but never roots in the ground around any of the pots, though I wouldn't mid if it did.  N. caerulea is much better behaved -- it produces fewer propagules, albeit more flowers, and they are slower to form.  It never invades.  And this year, it finally produced a seed pod (which I have not yet collected). David E. From lspookrgl@hotmail.com Fri Nov 5 13:46:53 2010 Message-Id: From: roy land Subject: H. neopardinum, Is It Valid? / H. "Spotty" = H. neopardinum? Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 12:41:48 -0500 scott ogden discussed spotty and its origins in his book on southern bulbs > Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 15:34:28 -0700 > From: joshy46013@yahoo.com > To: IBSMEMBERS@yahoogroups.com; pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [pbs] H. neopardinum, Is It Valid? / H. "Spotty" = H. neopardinum? > > Hi guys, > > I've ran across Hippeastrum "Spotty" which seems identical to Hippeastrum > neopardinum. Does anyone have any information on this cultivar? I can't seem > to find a source for it, I would love the opportunity to see it in person! > > Also, is H. neopardinum actually a described species? I've noticed many > people class neopardinum in with pardinum. Is the true H. pardinum the one > listed by Dennis on the IBS gallery, my H. pardinum is identical to his. > > Does anyone have any offsets of H. neopardinum they'd like to trade? If so, > shoot me an e-mail! > > Josh > Anderson, IN > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From mikemace@att.net Fri Nov 5 15:15:39 2010 Message-Id: <002d01cb7d1d$d436dd00$7ca49700$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Oxalis in the ground Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 12:15:36 -0700 Andrew wrote: >>I was interested by your experiences with Oxalis in the ground as you had initially claimed great success with them. Yeah, they grew explosively the first year and were pretty good the second year and then gradually dwindled away. I had a very similar experience with Lachenalias, although L. mutabilis has persisted in one spot in my yard. Your brick idea sounds fantastic! I have a large supply of river rocks, and I think I could create an effect similar to what you did with the bricks. Too bad I'll have to wait six months until I can try the experiment. >>chaparral pack rats are the worst offenders. Mice at least eat the bulbs; pack rats use them in huge numbers to line their nests. I don't know what was eating mine, but it was some small top-digging rodent. I had to put chicken wire in the top of every pot as a result. It also helped when three feral cats moved into the yard. They're very good with the rodents, and also keep me company during repotting sessions. Thanks for the ideas. Mike San Jose, CA From unjardinenfrance@gmail.com Fri Nov 5 16:30:40 2010 Message-Id: From: michelle pierce Subject: hello Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 21:30:32 +0100 Hi santoury not quite sure what you mean exactly by tropicals. Does iris japonicus count? Michelle 2010/11/4 > Sure! I'd be happy to send some to you - not sure if you have any tropicals > to trade? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: michelle pierce > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: Wed, Nov 3, 2010 8:07 pm > Subject: Re: [pbs] hello > > > Hello > Well, iris cristata is also on my wish list so if you can give me some I'd > be very happy ! > Michelle > > 2010/11/4 > > > Greetings! > > Are you speaking of Iris cristata? I have it and would be happy to share. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: michelle pierce > > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > Sent: Wed, Nov 3, 2010 7:49 pm > > Subject: [pbs] hello > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > I'm new to the pbs but looking forward to learning lots about irises. In > > France, where I live, it seems very difficult (almost impossible ) to get > > hold of Pacific coast iris. Does anyone know of anywhere I can get some? > > Michelle Pierce > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From unjardinenfrance@gmail.com Fri Nov 5 16:51:17 2010 Message-Id: From: michelle pierce Subject: A few Nerines Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 21:51:14 +0100 Hi Dave Poole I'd really like to know how to grow nerines adequately. I joined the nerine soc but the newsletter is too far above me. all I want to do is understand what will make my nerines reliably happy. I live in sw france so we have hot summers and cold winters and they are in pots. Also, do you have any advice about how to aquire a few bulbs of different cultivers regards michelle 2010/11/5 Dave Poole > > I only have a very few Nerines, but those that are here have put on a good > display again this autumn. The first to flower is always a fine red > sarniensis, which I 've grown outside for the past 4 or 5 years. It is in a > pot and largely ignored for much of the time. I don't worry about the bulbs > getting wet in summer although they often get a good baking since I have the > pot in an exposed position. Even last winter's unusually cold spell failed > to damage the bulbs or leaves and the clump managed 8 spikes this year, the > first opening in late September with the last still open. > > A clump of ordinary bowdenii started flowering during October and are still > holding their own. This is by far the commonest species grown here in the > UK and it is not unusual to see long borders filled with them, forming a > mass of many hundreds of flower heads at this time of year. I'm never quite > sure about the colour, but can't deny they add to the autumn scene. There's > a bruiser of a bowdenii hybrid that I had and now want to plant in this > garden. It is 'Zeal Giant', which is like bowdenii on steroids and an > absolute show-stopper whenever it flowers. Happily, it seems quite hardy > given gravelly soil and planty of sun. > > Currently, N. flexuosa 'alba' is looking very flashy with its pert, tightly > clustered, crystalline white flowers on 30-40 cms stems. I started off with > a single small bulb a few years ago and it is developing into a good clump. > It gets much the same treatment as sarniensis and seems to thrive on > neglect. This Nerine appears to be remarkably hardy here and even though > the bulbs are almost completely exposed, no damage was incurred during a > week of sub-zero temperatures, which nearly froze the pots. > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From ds429@comcast.net Fri Nov 5 17:15:22 2010 Message-Id: <005401cb7d2e$a9428e30$fbc7aa90$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Greetings Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 17:16:06 -0400 Dear Susan, I corresponded with you years ago when I ran the IBS seed and bulb exchange. I met either you or your sister at the IBS symposium in Chicago. And we exchanged messages about my visiting the Henry Foundation to hear Elizabeth Schultz speak. Since then I have become acquainted with your neighbor Betty Mackey. What has become of the Henry Foundation and its collection of Hippeastrums? I am still a member of the IBS, but I serve an offshoot of that organization in the capacity of seed and bulb exchange director. It is called the Pacific Bulb Society. I hope you will visit our website at pbs@lists.ibiblio.org We are friendly people who include many current and former members of IBS; we have a great seed and bulb exchange, an active online discussion group that is open to all, and an information wiki that is accessible to all and contains a collection of photos and information about geophytic plants that rivals any site on the internet. Best regards, Dell Dell Sherk, New Hope, PA Pacific Bulb Society Seed and Bulb Exchange From xerantheum@gmail.com Fri Nov 5 17:17:11 2010 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Window flowers Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 14:17:01 -0700 Hi David, Modification of flowers (or lack thereof) almost always has to to with pollinators. Plants that don't need animal pollinators have much reduced petals. Plants that have bats pollinated flowers are often white, bloom at night, and may include a perch. Plants that are pollinated by birds are often colorful (red), blooms during the day and may include a perch (hummingbird pollinated flowers don't have perches). And perhaps by far the most elaborate flowers has to do with insect pollinators. Orchid is one of the groups that takes full advantage of this going from giving a sweet nectar reward to tricking insects to mate with them. Botanists call all of this pollination syndrome. The clearing in the petals must have something to do with these insect pollinators. Nhu Berkeley, CA -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/ On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:52 AM, David Ehrlich wrote: > Dear members, > > Has anyone done an investigation into why some flowers develop windows in > their > petals? > From dkramb@gmail.com Fri Nov 5 17:47:15 2010 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Window flowers Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 17:47:13 -0400 I am only familiar with windows in carnivorous pitcher plants, Sarracenia. The theory is that once under the hood of the pitcher, the insect mistakenly thinks the window is a way out and is lured further into the trap. I have no experience with windows on flowers, but seems like Nhu's explanation makes good sense... that it must have something to do with the plant's relationship with insects. Dennis in Cincinnati From joshy46013@yahoo.com Fri Nov 5 17:47:29 2010 Message-Id: <114175.78948.qm@web52904.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Josh Young Subject: Window flowers Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 14:47:27 -0700 (PDT) Nhu,   What a great response, that has really opened my eyes way past the "Bird and the Bee", I've known Hippeastrum calyptratum to be pollinated by bats but I guess I never associated flower charecteristics with this, 2+2=4, of course!    Would you assume that a flower may evolve to be pollinated by other than that typical for the plant? Thanks Josh ________________________________ From: Nhu Nguyen To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Fri, November 5, 2010 5:17:01 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Window flowers Hi David, Modification of flowers (or lack thereof) almost always has to to with pollinators. Plants that don't need animal pollinators have much reduced petals. Plants that have bats pollinated flowers are often white, bloom at night, and may include a perch. Plants that are pollinated by birds are often colorful (red), blooms during the day and may include a perch (hummingbird pollinated flowers don't have perches). And perhaps by far the most elaborate flowers has to do with insect pollinators. Orchid is one of the groups that takes full advantage of this going from giving a sweet nectar reward to tricking insects to mate with them. Botanists call all of this pollination syndrome. The clearing in the petals must have something to do with these insect pollinators. Nhu Berkeley, CA From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Fri Nov 5 20:29:27 2010 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Window flowers Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 00:29:26 +0000 David, in the wild Cypella herberti has been mentioned as pollinated by native bees (solitary, make their "hives" underground) but most often I have noticed beetles on them and they eat good portions of the flowers. The bottom of the cup is more clear in several species of Cypella and may be seen as a circle of light by the insect flying downwards to the flower. From adam14113@ameritech.net Fri Nov 5 21:21:08 2010 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Window flowers-- evolution is non-purposeful Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 20:21:01 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Young" Would you assume that a flower may evolve to be pollinated by other than that typical for the plant? Josh, I'm not sure if you know this but evolution is not purposeful. Flowers do not evolve in order to be pollinated by anythng in particular. Theoretically, a plant could evolve to have its flowers pollinated by anything in the environment which has been around long enough to exert an evolutionary directionality. Your sentence above suggests that you might think of evolution as purposeful--i.e., as if evolve to be =in order to . However, I may have incorrectly inferred this from the ambiguity of meaning in yor choice of words. If I imputed more to you than you intended--Sorry. It's an important point. Thanks Josh ________________________________ From: Nhu Nguyen To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Fri, November 5, 2010 5:17:01 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Window flowers Hi David, Modification of flowers (or lack thereof) almost always has to to with pollinators. Plants that don't need animal pollinators have much reduced petals. Plants that have bats pollinated flowers are often white, bloom at night, and may include a perch. Plants that are pollinated by birds are often colorful (red), blooms during the day and may include a perch (hummingbird pollinated flowers don't have perches). And perhaps by far the most elaborate flowers has to do with insect pollinators. Orchid is one of the groups that takes full advantage of this going from giving a sweet nectar reward to tricking insects to mate with them. Botanists call all of this pollination syndrome. The clearing in the petals must have something to do with these insect pollinators. Nhu Berkeley, CA From mikemace@att.net Fri Nov 5 22:23:49 2010 Message-Id: <001001cb7d59$a36dbb30$ea493190$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: A few Nerines Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 19:23:44 -0700 Michelle wrote: >>all I want to do is understand what will make my nerines reliably happy. Hi, Michelle. First of all, welcome to the list. I hope you'll enjoy it. Most Nerines are pretty easy to grow, but their culture depends on which species you have. Some of them need summer water, some winter. The PBS wiki has some general cultural advice, here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Nerine And there is advice on growing Nerine sarniensis here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NerineSpeciesThree#sarni ensis The general rule is to give them good drainage, not too much fertilizer, and be careful about letting them get completely dry when they are dormant. That last bit of advice is controversial; some growers say they dry off their bulbs completely, some don't. You may have to experiment to see what works best in your climate. >>do you have any advice about how to aquire a few bulbs of different cultivers A very reputable bulb supplier in France is Bulb' Argence. They carry several varieties of Nerines, although most cannot be ordered now because it's the wrong time of the year: http://www.bulbargence.com/m_catalogue/index.php?id_categorie=46 You should also check Nerines.com, which has probably the biggest selection of Nerine sarniensis cultivars in the world. It's based in the UK, so you should be able to get bulbs shipped to you within the EU easily. I hope that helps! Mike San Jose, CA From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Nov 5 22:38:24 2010 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Window flowers Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 19:38:21 -0700 Has anyone tried u-v light on these? Diane On 4-Nov-10, at 11:52 AM, David Ehrlich wrote: > Has anyone done an investigation into why some flowers develop > windows in their > petals? From ds429@comcast.net Sat Nov 6 07:45:55 2010 Message-Id: <000001cb7da8$46a81770$d3f84650$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 259 Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 07:46:26 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 259" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact me for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! BULBS: 1. Hesperantha baurii- summer grower, pink flowers 2. Ferraria crispa - winter growing, I think this is the variety northii SEED: 3. Calochortus argillosus 4. Calochortus Mariposa hybrids - open pollinated and collected from several plants 5. Calydorea amabilis -- summer-fall blooming, short lived flowers, but produces them over a long time, short dormancy 6. Chlorogalum pomeridianum- the Indians used the root of this one to make soap, wavy leaves, tiny star-like flowers that open in the late afternoon and close the next day, can spread a bit by seed 7. Geissorhiza leopoldtii- white flowers, this seems to be one of the easier ones to grow for me 8. Haemanthus humilis- seed from the white one from Cameron McMaster. I don't know if plants will also be white. Some of the seeds are pink and some are starting to sprout. 9. Lilium maritimum - native to where I live, pretty red flowers, I'm not sure how easy it is away from the coastal influences 10. Moraea vegeta - one of the easiest for me to grow in the ground where it increases dramatically, very low growing. Most of the flowers are brownish, although occasionally there appear some with bluish flowers. 11. Nerine angustifolia - summer grower, reliable bloomer for me in a container, much easier than N. bowdenii, which rarely blooms for me 12. Nerine platypetala - summer grower, , reliable bloomer for me in a container, much easier than N. bowdenii, which rarely blooms for me 13. Pelargonium capillare - not a geophyte, evergreen, short plant, pink flowers, few seeds. I added a photo temporarily to the wiki of what it looks like and will take it off later. Original plants grown from Silverhill Seeds. www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Pelargonium/Pelargonium_capillare_m si4.jpg 14. Triteleia bridgesii - one of my favorite Triteleias 15. Watsonia coccinea - shorter plant than some, pretty red flowers, not every corm blooms reliably each year From Nhu Nguyen: 16. Rhodophiala advena - peachy pink form with a light green throat. Similar to the second photo from Osmani Baullosa. http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Rhodophiala#advena 17. Orthrosanthus aff. chimbocarensis - summer growing. These came from my plant which was grown from seed collected in Chiapas, Mexico. These can be sown in late fall but they will not sprout until there is some good warm temperature. They bloom fairly quickly from seeds. http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Orthrosanthus 18.Tulbaghia simmleri (Tulbaghia fragrans) - pink form (few) 19. Ledebouria "pauciflora" - offsets from BX166 from Mark Mazer. This one is slow to pick up but makes very nice fleshy leaves and eventually will divide very well. http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Ledebouria 20. Amaryllis belladonna 21. Solenomelus pedunculatus 22. Calochortus venustus (2009, wild collected) Thank you, Mary Sue and Nhu !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From ds429@comcast.net Sat Nov 6 08:56:22 2010 Message-Id: <002601cb7db2$1ebb4070$5c31c150$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Greetings Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 08:57:07 -0400 Oops! Sorry to send a personal note to the whole list. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dell Sherk Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 5:16 PM To: SPTreadway@aol.com Cc: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: [pbs] Greetings Dear Susan, I corresponded with you years ago when I ran the IBS seed and bulb exchange. I met either you or your sister at the IBS symposium in Chicago. And we exchanged messages about my visiting the Henry Foundation to hear Elizabeth Schultz speak. Since then I have become acquainted with your neighbor Betty Mackey. What has become of the Henry Foundation and its collection of Hippeastrums? I am still a member of the IBS, but I serve an offshoot of that organization in the capacity of seed and bulb exchange director. It is called the Pacific Bulb Society. I hope you will visit our website at pbs@lists.ibiblio.org We are friendly people who include many current and former members of IBS; we have a great seed and bulb exchange, an active online discussion group that is open to all, and an information wiki that is accessible to all and contains a collection of photos and information about geophytic plants that rivals any site on the internet. Best regards, Dell Dell Sherk, New Hope, PA Pacific Bulb Society Seed and Bulb Exchange From unjardinenfrance@gmail.com Sat Nov 6 10:19:23 2010 Message-Id: From: michelle pierce Subject: A few Nerines Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 15:19:20 +0100 Hi Mike Thanks very much for the tips -I'll check out the adresses you gave me, and try to resist as strongly as I can! Michelle 2010/11/6 Michael Mace > Michelle wrote: > > > >>all I want to do is understand what will make my nerines reliably happy. > > Hi, Michelle. > > First of all, welcome to the list. I hope you'll enjoy it. > > Most Nerines are pretty easy to grow, but their culture depends on which > species you have. Some of them need summer water, some winter. > > The PBS wiki has some general cultural advice, here: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Nerine > > And there is advice on growing Nerine sarniensis here: > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NerineSpeciesThree#sarni > ensis > > The general rule is to give them good drainage, not too much fertilizer, > and > be careful about letting them get completely dry when they are dormant. > That last bit of advice is controversial; some growers say they dry off > their bulbs completely, some don't. You may have to experiment to see what > works best in your climate. > > > >>do you have any advice about how to aquire a few bulbs of different > cultivers > > A very reputable bulb supplier in France is Bulb' Argence. They carry > several varieties of Nerines, although most cannot be ordered now because > it's the wrong time of the year: > http://www.bulbargence.com/m_catalogue/index.php?id_categorie=46 > > You should also check Nerines.com, which has probably the biggest selection > of Nerine sarniensis cultivars in the world. It's based in the UK, so you > should be able to get bulbs shipped to you within the EU easily. > > > I hope that helps! > > Mike > San Jose, CA > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From bulborum@gmail.com Sat Nov 6 10:58:35 2010 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: A few Nerines Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 15:58:33 +0100 You can also try this site http://www.labulberaie.fr/accueil/index.html Roland 2010/11/6 Michael Mace : > Michelle wrote: > > >>>all I want to do is understand what will make my nerines reliably happy. > > Hi, Michelle. > > First of all, welcome to the list.  I hope you'll enjoy it. > > Most Nerines are pretty easy to grow, but their culture depends on which > species you have.  Some of them need summer water, some winter. > > The PBS wiki has some general cultural advice, here: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Nerine > > And there is advice on growing Nerine sarniensis here: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NerineSpeciesThree#sarni > ensis R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From idavide@sbcglobal.net Sat Nov 6 13:38:41 2010 Message-Id: <257894.35934.qm@web81006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Window flowers Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 10:38:40 -0700 (PDT) Alberto Castillo wrote >  The bottom of the cup is more clear in several species of Cypella and may be seen as a circle of light  by the insect flying downwards to the flower.                         Or, I guess, by beetles underneath. Thank you very much Alberto.  This explanation makes a great deal of sense. David E. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Nov 6 14:03:37 2010 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Window flowers Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2010 11:03:20 -0700 One possibility that occurs to me, and that hasn't been mentioned yet, about window flowers, is that some flowers (especially alpines) have adaptations that appear to raise the temperature inside the flower. This both attracts insect pollinators and increases the likelihood of fertilization. Would the extra light entering through the windows do this? I seem to recall that some Ranunculaceae that flower very early have window petals. Jane McGary From adam14113@ameritech.net Sat Nov 6 14:23:03 2010 Message-Id: <21705897176C489ABA604D7B04315862@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Window flowers Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 13:23:04 -0500 Don't know if your memory is correct--but it makes sense. It could pick up on both transmitted light from above, or reflected heat and light from the ground. I've not seen this idea or fact before. Thanks. Will check further. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane McGary" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 1:03 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Window flowers > One possibility that occurs to me, and that hasn't been mentioned yet, > about window flowers, is that some flowers (especially alpines) have > adaptations that appear to raise the temperature inside the flower. This > both attracts insect pollinators and increases the likelihood of > fertilization. Would the extra light entering through the windows do this? > I seem to recall that some Ranunculaceae that flower very early have > window petals. > > Jane McGary > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat Nov 6 16:13:57 2010 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Window flowers Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 20:13:54 +0000 Again in Cypellas the brownish or purplish markings at the bottom of the cup are stripes or lines pointing (or ending at) to the staminal column. From joshy46013@yahoo.com Sat Nov 6 16:18:38 2010 Message-Id: <753192.49638.qm@web52902.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Josh Young Subject: Doran Collection Offsets/Bulbs Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 13:18:35 -0700 (PDT) Hi Guys, If anyone has any offsets of Hippeastrum from the Doran collection they'd like to sale please contact me privately, sadly I missed many of the sales and I'd like to have a chance to have a few bulbs if available. Thanks Josh From oothal@hotmail.com Sat Nov 6 21:55:54 2010 Message-Id: From: Justin Smith Subject: Oxalis wildflower and Oxalis weed (Pic) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 20:50:52 -0500 Hi all, Earlier this year I posted a pic of an Oxalis to be identified that I found growing in my front yard some time back. Today I was feeling well enough to dig up another one to put in the same pot as the one I had gotten earlier. Though the one I dug up today was hug compared my earlier one. http://www.flickr.com/photos/oothal/5152144215/ The Oxalis on the left in the picture is that very weedy kind. I dug it up today too. I wanted people to be able to compare them both and would know that these are indeed two different Oxalis. The Oxalis on the right is most attractive and the root structure is most interesting. Looking more like the Michelin tire man. Though with many more legs and arms. lol I know very little about Oxalis but I think if the root structure could be exposed, it would make a most beautiful display in a pot. Sort of like a bonsia Oxalis tree. lol Justin Woodville, TX 8b/9a From kyle.b1@xtra.co.nz Sat Nov 6 22:28:20 2010 Message-Id: <3430B7AB-3AAA-49E1-8C67-8ABD43167EAA@xtra.co.nz> From: Kiyel Boland Subject: Oxalis wildflower and Oxalis weed (Pic) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 15:28:13 +1300 Hi Justin The one in flower is Oxalis articulata. What color are the flowers of the one thats not in flower.We class O.articulata as weed here. But i find that it grows well in a pot and yes you can raise ite tuber above ground and it will still do well. Cheers Kiyel. Kiyel Boland In Sunny Napier. New Zealand. http://www.savagegardenz.co.nz http://public.fotki.com/savagegardenz On 7/11/2010, at 2:50 PM, Justin Smith wrote: > > Hi all, > > Earlier this year I posted a pic of an Oxalis to be identified that I found growing in my front yard some time back. Today I was feeling well enough to dig up another one to put in the same pot as the one I had gotten earlier. Though the one I dug up today was hug compared my earlier one. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/oothal/5152144215/ > > The Oxalis on the left in the picture is that very weedy kind. I dug it up today too. I wanted people to be able to compare them both and would know that these are indeed two different Oxalis. The Oxalis on the right is most attractive and the root structure is most interesting. Looking more like the Michelin tire man. Though with many more legs and arms. lol > > I know very little about Oxalis but I think if the root structure could be exposed, it would make a most beautiful display in a pot. Sort of like a bonsia Oxalis tree. lol > > Justin > Woodville, TX 8b/9a > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From oothal@hotmail.com Sun Nov 7 00:00:09 2010 Message-Id: From: Justin Smith Subject: Oxalis wildflower and Oxalis weed (Pic) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 23:00:07 -0600 Hi Kiyel, What color is the bloom on the Oxalis that is not blooming? I think it is the variety that is pink with white centers and is most weedy and cursed by many in this group. If I were to go out on a limb and give it a name I would most likely get it wrong. Then it would confirm to those that already suspect, that I don't know anything about Oxalis. lol Justin Woodville, TX 8b/9a > > Hi Justin > The one in flower is Oxalis articulata. What color are the flowers of the one thats not in flower.We class O.articulata as weed here. But i find that it grows well in a pot and yes you can raise ite tuber above ground and it will still do well. > Cheers Kiyel. From ds429@comcast.net Sun Nov 7 10:13:16 2010 Message-Id: <000a01cb7e8e$4d2cf980$e786ec80$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 259 CLOSED Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 10:13:14 -0500 Most everything is claimed. Packages should go out by the end of the week. Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From jwickham@sbcglobal.net Sun Nov 7 12:59:35 2010 Message-Id: <897816.22546.qm@web81501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: John Wickham Subject: Massonia question Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 09:59:33 -0800 (PST) I received a Massonia pustulata through the Bulb Exchange this year, BX 247. Now that it has come up, I'm not sure its actually M. pustulata. The leaves are very smooth, not pustulate. I have another of this species in a different pot from a different source and the leaves are very pustulate. Any thoughts on this? Can this species be variable? Or is it likely something else? From arnold140@verizon.net Sun Nov 7 13:20:57 2010 Message-Id: <641074277.518815.1289153999783.JavaMail.root@vznit170072> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Massonia Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 12:19:59 -0600 (CST) John: I received the same distribution. It was BX 247 # 4 I believe. I'm really not sure but maybe immature plants don't develop the pustulate surface until they mature. Mine are growing nicely. Arnold New Jersey From plicht@berkeley.edu Sun Nov 7 13:39:39 2010 Message-Id: <4CD6F265.90204@berkeley.edu> From: Paul Licht Subject: Massonia question Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 10:39:33 -0800 All the M. pustulata (seeds and bulblets) that I've received from PBS in the past 2 yrs are doing the same thing. My understanding, however, is that the pustulate appearance may not develop until they are more mature. We'll see. Paul Licht, Director Univ. California Botanical Garden 200 Centennial Drive Berkeley, CA 94720 (510)-643-8999 http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu On 11/7/2010 9:59 AM, John Wickham wrote: > I received a Massonia pustulata through the Bulb Exchange this year, BX 247. Now that it has come up, I'm not sure its actually M. pustulata. The leaves are very smooth, not pustulate. I have another of this species in a different pot from a different source and the leaves are very pustulate. > > Any thoughts on this? Can this species be variable? Or is it likely something else? > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From joshy46013@yahoo.com Sun Nov 7 13:54:25 2010 Message-Id: <502496.61426.qm@web52906.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Josh Young Subject: All My Hippeastrum Seedlings Were Devoured! Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 10:54:24 -0800 (PST) Hi guys,     I know this is an older topic but I wanted to let everyone know that I followed the advice from Del Allegood, it was succesful and all my Hippeastrum seedlings currently are on their third and fourth leaves.  I'm continuing them on flourescent lighting for 24 hours a day, does anyone know any adverse effects this can create?  I've heard that plants only photosynthesis a certain amount of time a day, am I wasting my electricity? Thanks Josh Anderson, IN ________________________________ From: Del Allegood Put flourescent light over them, three to four inches away,twenty four hours a day. Rake back the medium,so that the little bulbs are exposed at their tops. You might be able to salvage some of them. I have been somewhat successful doing this. I have had tremendous problems with all kinds of plant eaters this year. Del ________________________________ From: Josh Young Hi Guys,     So this morning I awoke to see that several of my pots of Hippeastrum seedlings had been a midnight snack for several caterpillars.  I hope they enjoyed their hamdonii sandwhich with a side of psittacinum puddingand a large diet calyptra-cola!      Seriously tho, they ate all the seedlings to the ground, I had several gallon pots with maybe 15 or more seedlings in each, how can I keep this from happening again without jeopardizing the seedlings themselves?  I had aulicum, blossfeldiae, calyptratum, cybister, mandonii, morelianum, glaucescens and psittacinum and all are gone.  Thanks Josh From arnold140@verizon.net Sun Nov 7 14:00:37 2010 Message-Id: <932527015.520571.1289156430723.JavaMail.root@vznit170072> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: All My Hippeastrum Seedlings Were Devoured! Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 13:00:30 -0600 (CST) Josh: Two things that come to mind with 24 hour light are: The plants are pushed for growth at the expense of developing root and bulb mass. Something like a nursery that pushes fertilizer to get growth at the expense of having a plant with a balanced root to stem ratio. Plants respire or grow at night ( I think ) and use the energy produced during daylight hours to manufacture tissue. Arnold From msittner@mcn.org Sun Nov 7 14:02:08 2010 Message-Id: <20101107190207.DD9E24C04E@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Massonia question Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 11:01:35 -0800 The description of Massonia pustulata in the Color Encyclopedia is "leaves smooth or pustulate-hairy, sometimes spotted". You tell them apart according to the key by measuring the length of the anthers. Massonia pustulata is in the category of anthers 1 to 2 mm long, with filaments usually 16 to 24 mm. long. I once grew plants labeled Massonia pustulata from seed that had smooth leaves, but decided it was probably M. echinata after I measured it. So you may need to wait for flowers. Your question illustrates a couple of points. One, as Arnold has just written, is that leaves change from year to year. I've found this especially to be true of Cyclamen leaves that in the beginning weren't nearly as interesting as they became in subsequent years. Secondly and this is something that I didn't use to appreciate until I started looking at more plants in the wild, there is an amazing diversity found in species. We look at a picture in a book and think all of the plants are going to look like that picture and this isn't so. That's why we often add additional pictures to the wiki of plants already illustrated that show variations. Mary Sue From joshy46013@yahoo.com Sun Nov 7 14:05:25 2010 Message-Id: <613159.67673.qm@web52906.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Josh Young Subject: All My Hippeastrum Seedlings Were Devoured! Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 11:05:23 -0800 (PST) Arnold,    What would you find to be suffecient for seedlings, should I switch to a 16 hours on 8 hours off? Thanks for the advice :) Josh ________________________________ From: "arnold140@verizon.net" To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Sun, November 7, 2010 2:00:30 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] All My Hippeastrum Seedlings Were Devoured! Josh: Two things that come to mind with 24 hour light are: The plants are pushed for growth at the expense of developing root and bulb mass.  Something like a nursery that pushes fertilizer to get growth at the expense of having a plant with a balanced root to stem ratio. Plants respire or grow at night  ( I think ) and use the energy produced during daylight hours to manufacture tissue. Arnold From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Sun Nov 7 15:09:04 2010 Message-Id: <410-220101107194027171@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: Massonia question Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 14:40:27 -0500 > > Any thoughts on this? Can this species be variable? Or is it likely something else? A pot of plants sown in 2008 has 14 dark and pustulate plants and 2 smooth, green leaved plants. The pot sown in 2010 and just germinating has leaves that are green and smooth. All of these come from my plants that are very dark leaved and very pustulate. Can't find the 2009 sowing. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 8a From rherold@yahoo.com Sun Nov 7 17:21:19 2010 Message-Id: <4CD7265D.2000302@yahoo.com> From: Roy Herold Subject: Massonia question Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 17:21:17 -0500 Paul, The pustules are definitely age related, and will show up in the second or third year after sowing. The BX247 bulbs that I sent in this year were from a very crowded seed pot (sorry!), and are probably a bit behind in development. All of the seedlings that I have grown of this selection eventually develop pustules. They will not flower until after the pustules show up, or so it seems. That said, there are smooth or nearly smooth forms of M. pustulata. Paul Cumbleton from Wisley sent some seeds from a 'few pustules' form to BX181. These were sown in 2008, and all are now at the two-leaf stage, with no visible pustules. Some regular pustulata sown at the same time are covered with pustules, not as heavily as a mature plant, and none appear to have buds. There is also a pustulate leaved form of M. jasminiflora. Seeds from Penroc, also sown in 2008, have resulted in very attractive plants that will bloom this year (jasminifloras seem to be quite precocious). These seem to have colored pustules with a green leaf surface. The coloration of M. pustulata is more in the form of blotches and streaks on the leaf surface that go right through the pustules without changing color (got that?). Good luck... --Roy NW of Boston First freeze last week, 11/3. Massonia pygmaea (received as M. pustulata from Silverhill) has finished blooming--bees did a good job on it, lots of fat seed pods already. From xerics@cox.net Sun Nov 7 18:26:25 2010 Message-Id: <000e01cb7ecf$1cdb3850$5691a8f0$@net> From: "Richard" Subject: Massonia question Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 14:57:11 -0800 Hmmm...Anyone have a good spiny form of M. echinata? Richard -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Roy Herold Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 2:21 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Massonia question Paul, The pustules are definitely age related, and will show up in the second or third year after sowing. The BX247 bulbs that I sent in this year were from a very crowded seed pot (sorry!), and are probably a bit behind in development. All of the seedlings that I have grown of this selection eventually develop pustules. They will not flower until after the pustules show up, or so it seems. That said, there are smooth or nearly smooth forms of M. pustulata. Paul Cumbleton from Wisley sent some seeds from a 'few pustules' form to BX181. These were sown in 2008, and all are now at the two-leaf stage, with no visible pustules. Some regular pustulata sown at the same time are covered with pustules, not as heavily as a mature plant, and none appear to have buds. There is also a pustulate leaved form of M. jasminiflora. Seeds from Penroc, also sown in 2008, have resulted in very attractive plants that will bloom this year (jasminifloras seem to be quite precocious). These seem to have colored pustules with a green leaf surface. The coloration of M. pustulata is more in the form of blotches and streaks on the leaf surface that go right through the pustules without changing color (got that?). Good luck... From rherold@yahoo.com Sun Nov 7 18:45:20 2010 Message-Id: <4CD73A0C.9050608@yahoo.com> From: Roy Herold Subject: Massonia question Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 18:45:16 -0500 Richard, I think most of the spiny M echinatas in circulation are actually M pygmaea or M hirsuta. The latter designation is terribly confused, applied to some M jasminiflora types from Addo and also to some M pygmaea(?) types from Van Rhyns Pass. Paul Cumbleton has a putative M hirsuta with the extreme spines you are looking form but the flowers are decidedly M depressa types. See for a picture. I'm guessing you would be happy with the spiny M pygmaea that I'm growing. Stay tuned for seeds in the BX if everything works out. --Roy NW of Boston From npublici@yahoo.com Sun Nov 7 18:57:00 2010 Message-Id: <949584.89856.qm@web59712.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> From: Del Allegood Subject: All My Hippeastrum Seedlings Were Devoured! Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 15:56:58 -0800 (PST) This method was given to Josh in order to salvage young seedlings which had the leaves eaten off,not as a seed starting procedure. When starting seeds sixteen hours works well,but does not seem, to me, to work as well as twenty four hours of light to grow leaves on very young bulbs which have roots..After leaf restoral,sixteen hours should be enough. Del ________________________________ From: Josh Young To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sun, November 7, 2010 1:54:24 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] All My Hippeastrum Seedlings Were Devoured! Hi guys, I know this is an older topic but I wanted to let everyone know that I followed the advice from Del Allegood, it was succesful and all my Hippeastrum seedlings currently are on their third and fourth leaves. I'm continuing them on flourescent lighting for 24 hours a day, does anyone know any adverse effects this can create? I've heard that plants only photosynthesis a certain amount of time a day, am I wasting my electricity? Thanks Josh Anderson, IN ________________________________ From: Del Allegood Put flourescent light over them, three to four inches away,twenty four hours a day. Rake back the medium,so that the little bulbs are exposed at their tops. You might be able to salvage some of them. I have been somewhat successful doing this. I have had tremendous problems with all kinds of plant eaters this year. Del ________________________________ From: Josh Young Hi Guys, So this morning I awoke to see that several of my pots of Hippeastrum seedlings had been a midnight snack for several caterpillars. I hope they enjoyed their hamdonii sandwhich with a side of psittacinum puddingand a large diet calyptra-cola! Seriously tho, they ate all the seedlings to the ground, I had several gallon pots with maybe 15 or more seedlings in each, how can I keep this from happening again without jeopardizing the seedlings themselves? I had aulicum, blossfeldiae, calyptratum, cybister, mandonii, morelianum, glaucescens and psittacinum and all are gone. Thanks Josh From jwickham@sbcglobal.net Sun Nov 7 19:22:06 2010 Message-Id: <630903.48304.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: John Wickham Subject: Massonia question Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 16:22:04 -0800 (PST) Thanks everyone, this is very helpful. I've been growing California native bulbs for a few years now and just started with South African bulbs. Massonia is different from what I'm used to seeing, glad to know what to watch for now. John --- On Sun, 11/7/10, Roy Herold wrote: From: Roy Herold Subject: Re: [pbs] Massonia question To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Sunday, November 7, 2010, 3:45 PM Richard, I think most of the spiny M echinatas in circulation are actually M pygmaea or M hirsuta. The latter designation is terribly confused, applied to some M jasminiflora types from Addo and also to some M pygmaea(?) types from Van Rhyns Pass. Paul Cumbleton has a putative M hirsuta with the extreme spines you are looking form but the flowers are decidedly M depressa types. See for a picture. I'm guessing you would be happy with the spiny M pygmaea that I'm growing. Stay tuned for seeds in the BX if everything works out. --Roy NW of Boston From dkramb@gmail.com Sun Nov 7 19:26:52 2010 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: 'tis the season Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 19:26:51 -0500 There is an inherent, annoying, recurring problem that always happens to me at this time of year. With seeds being harvested from so many different plants both indoors and outdoors... I run out of bowls. I just went to get some salsa for my chips, and there were no clean bowls for my salsa! Yet my countertops are cluttered with bowls filled with all sorts of seeds... Echinacea... Iris... Silphium... you name it. LOL. I can see that I am down to just two bowls NOT being used for seeds. But they were both dirty from meals earlier in the day. Sigh. I need a better system for storing my seeds.... Dennis in Cincinnati From hornig@earthlink.net Sun Nov 7 19:40:15 2010 Message-Id: <581D6DCC5E944E26ACB66EFBF183C616@ellenPC> From: "Ellen Hornig" Subject: Stoering seeds (was Re: 'tis the season) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 19:40:38 -0500 Dennis - get yourself a package of brown paper lunch bags. They're the best thing around for storing seed until you clean and sow it. Scribble your data on the bag, throw the seed heads, berries, whatever in the bags, fold them over and staple if you like, and you can then toss then in a box and forget them for months on end. Ellen Ellen Hornig Seneca Hill Perennials 3712 County Route 57 Oswego NY 13126 USA www.senecahillperennials.com ----- Original Message ----- From joshy46013@yahoo.com Sun Nov 7 19:44:08 2010 Message-Id: <263518.6720.qm@web52908.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Josh Young Subject: 'tis the season Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 16:44:06 -0800 (PST) Dennis, I had this same problem but not from storing seeds, it was what I used to float my Amaryllids :) NOW I buy plastic clear cups. Josh ________________________________ From: Dennis Kramb To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sun, November 7, 2010 7:26:51 PM Subject: [pbs] 'tis the season There is an inherent, annoying, recurring problem that always happens to me at this time of year. With seeds being harvested from so many different plants both indoors and outdoors... I run out of bowls. I just went to get some salsa for my chips, and there were no clean bowls for my salsa! Yet my countertops are cluttered with bowls filled with all sorts of seeds... Echinacea... Iris... Silphium... you name it. LOL. I can see that I am down to just two bowls NOT being used for seeds. But they were both dirty from meals earlier in the day. Sigh. I need a better system for storing my seeds.... Dennis in Cincinnati From arnold140@verizon.net Sun Nov 7 20:50:29 2010 Message-Id: <1311853431.539534.1289181018337.JavaMail.root@vznit170072> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: All My Hippeastrum Seedlings Were Devoured! Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 19:50:18 -0600 (CST) In the past I grew most of my plants under HID lights with a 14 to 16 hour on cycle. I always believed that the plants need a dark period. Arnold From ron_redding@hotmail.com Sun Nov 7 21:10:06 2010 Message-Id: From: Ronald Redding Subject: Artificial lighting Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 12:05:04 +1000 Josh I saved two very special worsleya plants over winter by placing then under a grow light 24/7 for over four months not only did they recover and grow I have now moved them back alongside the main collection now it is spring, they have not looked back. During this time I also germinated and grew some species hippeastrum that also powered along with no darkness at all, this was never a long term situation and they are all now in the natural temps and light here, they now have to deal with whatever mother nature throws at them however I was so succesful with the grow light that I will use it again on some very special plants over winter next year and I won't be switching it off until spring. Kind Regards and Best Wishes Ron Redding Hervey Bay Australia From pcamusa@hotmail.com Sun Nov 7 21:27:10 2010 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: dry winter protection Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 21:22:08 -0500 I usually protect the bed that has my cactus, agave, and summer rainfall african bulbs with a little bit of mulch and a large tarp to keep the soil dry all winter. I'd like to avoid the mulch since its a mess to clean up in the spring. I ran across a roll of Reflectix insulation at a local lumber store that looks like it could be a good solution. Its about 3/8" thick aluminized bubble plastic. Has anyone used this material to protect a bed and if so is it sufficiently UV resistant to last a few winters? Thanks! Phil Andrews Southern Michigan, Zone 5ish From arnold140@verizon.net Sun Nov 7 22:10:39 2010 Message-Id: <1512607890.543124.1289185834232.JavaMail.root@vznit170072> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: dry winter protection Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 21:10:34 -0600 (CST) Phil: Looks like interesting stuff. The aluminized bubble is used on sub floors for radiant heat systems. Have a look. http://www.reflectixinc.com/basepage.asp?Page=DIY+Radiant+Floor+-+Wood+Joists&pageIndex=551 Arnold From adam14113@ameritech.net Sun Nov 7 22:52:46 2010 Message-Id: <4E0B633EC442479DB8A9BB8C35481F97@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: dry winter protection Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 21:52:40 -0600 On this topic-- I've used 16 x 48 styrofoam panels held in place by bricks to grow oncocyclus species and tender hybrids outdoors . To protect them from untimely snow melt and summer rain. I've pied ssandonthem covering the rhizomes, then laying the styrofoam on them with bricks,, taking it off at about April 4 here in the Chicago area. For small areas one can cut the foam witth a sharp knife and it works as well even if only 3-4 inches overlaps the outside margin of the plant. It can be saved and reused for years if one is careful and doesn't let it get too broken up. 'Original Message ----- From: "P. C. Andrews" To: Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 8:22 PM Subject: [pbs] dry winter protection > > I usually protect the bed that has my cactus, agave, and summer rainfall > african bulbs with a little bit of mulch and a large tarp to keep the soil > dry all winter. I'd like to avoid the mulch since its a mess to clean up > in the spring. I ran across a roll of Reflectix insulation at a local > lumber store that looks like it could be a good solution. Its about 3/8" > thick aluminized bubble plastic. Has anyone used this material to protect > a bed and if so is it sufficiently UV resistant to last a few winters? > Thanks! > Phil Andrews > Southern Michigan, Zone 5ish > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ewaterm@earthlink.net Mon Nov 8 02:15:35 2010 Message-Id: <683wo6y4s0b5ioe88t0bpbwq.1289200548061@email.android.com> From: Chris Willig Subject: 'tis the season Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 23:15:48 -0800 Josh Young wrote: >Dennis, > > I had this same problem but not from storing seeds, it was what I used to >float my Amaryllids :) NOW I buy plastic clear cups. > > >Josh > > > > >________________________________ >From: Dennis Kramb >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Sent: Sun, November 7, 2010 7:26:51 PM >Subject: [pbs] 'tis the season > >There is an inherent, annoying, recurring problem that always happens to me >at this time of year. With seeds being harvested from so many different >plants both indoors and outdoors... I run out of bowls. I just went to get >some salsa for my chips, and there were no clean bowls for my salsa! Yet my >countertops are cluttered with bowls filled with all sorts of seeds... >Echinacea... Iris... Silphium... you name it. LOL. > >I can see that I am down to just two bowls NOT being used for seeds. But >they were both dirty from meals earlier in the day. > >Sigh. > >I need a better system for storing my seeds.... > >Dennis in Cincinnati >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From bulborum@gmail.com Mon Nov 8 02:52:24 2010 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: 'tis the season Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 08:52:22 +0100 I just use plastic coffee cups 50 for 1 $ a piece of plywood with holes a little smaller as the cups and 4 long nails in the corner to keep the plywood from the table You can protect the table for the nails just by putting some corks on the nails you protect the table Roland 2010/11/8 Dennis Kramb : > There is an inherent, annoying, recurring problem that always happens to me > at this time of year.  With seeds being harvested from so many different > plants both indoors and outdoors... I run out of bowls.  I just went to get > some salsa for my chips, and there were no clean bowls for my salsa!  Yet my > countertops are cluttered with bowls filled with all sorts of seeds... > Echinacea... Iris... Silphium... you name it.  LOL. > > I can see that I am down to just two bowls NOT being used for seeds.  But > they were both dirty from meals earlier in the day. R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From dkramb@gmail.com Mon Nov 8 11:25:19 2010 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: visiting Los Angeles (please reply off-list) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 11:25:17 -0500 I'll be in Torrance, CA on business and would like to visit some nurseries in my free time. I'm interested in Orchids, Irises, Gesneriads, Hoyas, Carnivorous Plants, and the like. Can any of you recommend places nearby Torrance? I found Orchid Fever in Culver City... and Rainforest Flora in Torrance. Sorry for the cross-posting... some of you will get this more than once. Please reply off-list! From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Nov 8 12:10:08 2010 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: New book on South African plants and conservation Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 09:08:55 -0800 The following announcement is being relayed from a message sent to me via the PBS website. We don't usually make commercial announcements on this forum, but this is a publication of a nonprofit conservation group, so I thought it appropriate to bring it to the attention of our many members who enjoy South African bulbs. >Please could you notify your members and your >website readers about this new book, on >Limestone Fynbos, published by the Duiwenshok >Conservancy. (We’re a non profit organisation!) > >Limestone Fynbos is an intriguing flora that >occurs on our southern coast of South Africa, >wherever there are limestone hills or cliffs. >Most of the plants occur in a broad sweep from >Gansbaai to the Gouritz River, including pockets >at Cape Point and Macassar. This flora can be >divided into three natural units, Agulhas >Limestone, De Hope Limestone and Canca >Limestone. In December 2007 the SA Publication, >Veld and Flora, published an article on the >Agulhas Limestone. The Duiwenhoks Conservancy >has added a new aspect to the literature >available on this rather unknown flora by >publishing a book that describes the Limestone >Fynbos of the Vermaaklikheid area, near >Heildelberg, which falls in the Canca Limestone unit. > >Limestone Fynbos is floristically very different >from other vegetation. The reason for this is >that these plants thrive on a soil type that >would be toxic to most fynbos plants, which are >normally found on acidic or neutral soils. They >grow on limestone soils, which are so alkaline >that if you squeeze lemon juice on them they >will fizz. It is this alkalinity in the soil >that is toxic to most fynbos plants. In a >remarkable adaptation to a hostile soil >environment, Limestone Fynbos has evolved as a >unique flora that shares only a few species in >common with sandstone fynbos and sand fynbos. As >one would expect from a flora that is confined >to such specific soils, many plants are endemic, >meaning that they grow only on such soils or even at only one locality. > >At first glance, this little-known flora appears >as dry woody scrub. On closer inspection a >fascinating array of intriguing and sometimes >tiny flowers emerge. Over the past ten years, >the author Louisa Oberholzer began collecting, >describing and photographing the plants in the >Vermaaklikheid area of the Western Cape . The >Duiwenhoks Conservancy provided financial >support for the identification of the species >and finally for the publication of the book, >Limestone Fynbos of the Vermaaklikheid Area. It >presents a photographic record and description >of 124 species. Of particular interest are the >intriguing Fabaceae, or pea-like flowers and the >pungent buchus, which belong to the Rutacea or citrus family. > >The aim of the publication is to inform the >public and particularly landowners about the >value of Limestone Fynbos and the importance >controlling alien vegetation, which is a major >threat to all the fynbos plant communities. > >The book is priced at R130.00 available from the >Duiwenhoks Conservancy, >info@duiwenhoksconservancy.co.za and also from >the author, louisa.stanford@gmail.com > >Kind regards > >Rob Hill >Treasurer >Duiwenhoks Conservancy From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon Nov 8 12:16:03 2010 Message-Id: <223644.6370.qm@web84305.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: New book on South African plants and conservation Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 09:16:00 -0800 (PST) That's less than $20, is't it? Sounds like a good deal. I wonder what the postage would be? Jim McKenney From oothal@hotmail.com Mon Nov 8 12:35:19 2010 Message-Id: From: Justin Smith Subject: Seed storage was RE: 'tis the season Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 11:35:16 -0600 Hi All, Having tried the plastic cups for a while I think they are about the worst method for storing seed. They tip over too easily and take up too much space. Though I do use them occationally. The best thing I have seen here in the States is the little square plastic tubs baby food comes in. I just never seem to find a good supply of them at the time I need them. Justin Woodville, TX 8b/9a From bulborum@gmail.com Mon Nov 8 13:03:04 2010 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Seed storage was RE: 'tis the season Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 19:03:00 +0100 My cups are hanging in a plywood frame 24 cups in one frame with a label in every cup you can put them in small crates and make a pile with enough space to dry the seeds Roland 2010/11/8 Justin Smith : > > Hi All, > > Having tried the plastic cups for a while I think they are about the worst method for storing seed. They tip over too easily and take up too much space. Though I do use them occationally. > > The best thing I have seen here in the States is the little square plastic tubs baby food comes in. I just never seem to find a good supply of them at the time I need them. > > Justin > Woodville, TX 8b/9a > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From Jtlehmann@aol.com Mon Nov 8 14:25:38 2010 Message-Id: <3b4e.a3822ad.3a09a8a3@aol.com> From: Jtlehmann@aol.com Subject: Reflectix Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 14:25:23 EST I realize the interest is covering the entire bed, and not individual plants, but as a word of caution: I have known people who used regular bubble wrap to protect individual tender plants without success; I know of no one who has used it with success. The plants rot over the winter. From oothal@hotmail.com Mon Nov 8 15:01:25 2010 Message-Id: From: Justin Smith Subject: Seed storage was RE: 'tis the season Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 14:01:24 -0600 Hi All, Ahhhhhh I must have misunderstood. Yeah that sounds like a good idea Roland. Cups by themselves I find most frustrating. Justin > My cups are hanging in a plywood frame > 24 cups in one frame > with a label in every cup > you can put them in small crates > and make a pile with enough space to dry the seeds > > Roland > From joshy46013@yahoo.com Mon Nov 8 15:22:18 2010 Message-Id: <580437.31136.qm@web52905.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Josh Young Subject: Pamianthe Seed Germination Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 12:22:17 -0800 (PST) Hi Guys, I thought I would post this, I've recently received seed of Pamianthe peruviana, I've decided to float some of them and in the span of a few hours 3 out of the 10 I'm floating right now. This seems incredibly quick to me, has anyone else had an experience like this with floating seeds? Josh From bulborum@gmail.com Mon Nov 8 15:27:24 2010 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Seed storage was RE: 'tis the season Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 21:27:23 +0100 I use now 10 cm wide Yoghurt cups seeds dry better in them as in coffee cups but they are less easy to find I bought my Yoghurt at Lidl Roland 2010/11/8 Justin Smith : > > Hi All, > > > Ahhhhhh I must have misunderstood. Yeah that sounds like a good idea Roland. Cups by themselves I find most frustrating. > > Justin R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From joshy46013@yahoo.com Mon Nov 8 15:41:17 2010 Message-Id: <157598.24582.qm@web52901.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Josh Young Subject: Pamianthe Seed Germination Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 12:41:15 -0800 (PST) Well that didn't make sense, let me try again! Out of 10 seeds I've decided to float 3 have sent out a radicle in about an hour or two, has anyone else had this quick of germination with papery Amaryllids? Josh ________________________________ From: Josh Young To: PBS List Sent: Mon, November 8, 2010 3:22:17 PM Subject: [pbs] Pamianthe Seed Germination Hi Guys, I thought I would post this, I've recently received seed of Pamianthe peruviana, I've decided to float some of them and in the span of a few hours 3 out of the 10 I'm floating right now. This seems incredibly quick to me, has anyone else had an experience like this with floating seeds? Josh From Santoury@aol.com Mon Nov 8 16:22:02 2010 Message-Id: <8CD4DA20AE1CB69-1868-24AEA@webmail-stg-d15.sysops.aol.com> From: santoury@aol.com Subject: Reflectix Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 16:21:29 -0500 I did not see the original post - but plastic will rot anything under it. People here in Mass. cover lawns with plastic, or even tarps, in order to kill grass, and everything else, to re-seed. People here use HAY for protection in winter. It would also be a much better insulator than a sheet of plastic. -----Original Message----- From: Jtlehmann@aol.com To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Mon, Nov 8, 2010 2:25 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix I realize the interest is covering the entire bed, and not individual plants, but as a word of caution: I have known people who used regular bubble wrap to protect individual tender plants without success; I know of no one who has used it with success. The plants rot over the winter. From oothal@hotmail.com Mon Nov 8 16:47:20 2010 Message-Id: From: Justin Smith Subject: Pamianthe Seed Germination Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:47:18 -0600 Hi Josh, I have floated only a couple of species of amaryllids but they took overnight for me to get any sign. I would presume fresh seed can germinate rather quickly. Justin Wooville, TX 8b/9a > Subject: Re: [pbs] Pamianthe Seed Germination > > Well that didn't make sense, let me try again! > > Out of 10 seeds I've decided to float 3 have sent out a radicle in about an hour > or two, has anyone else had this quick of germination with papery Amaryllids? > > Josh > From adam14113@ameritech.net Mon Nov 8 16:55:41 2010 Message-Id: <6B0AC7872D0E459FB613AEF050971215@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Pamianthe Seed Germination Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:55:33 -0600 Text missing? re radicles? fgermination? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Young" To: "PBS List" Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 2:22 PM Subject: [pbs] Pamianthe Seed Germination > Hi Guys, > > I thought I would post this, I've recently received seed of Pamianthe > peruviana, I've decided to float some of them and in the span of a few > hours 3 > out of the 10 I'm floating right now. This seems incredibly quick to me, > has > anyone else had an experience like this with floating seeds? > > > Josh > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From adam14113@ameritech.net Mon Nov 8 16:59:33 2010 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Reflectix Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:59:26 -0600 I don't cover the plants wet. Also, the fact that the styrofoam panels are flat allows air circulation under it. Also each plant is covered with 2-4" of dry sand.. Massachusetts winters can't be harsher than Chicago in terms of degrees below zero ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >I did not see the original post - but plastic will rot anything under it. >People here in Mass. cover lawns with plastic, or even tarps, in order to >kill grass, and everything else, to re-seed. > People here use HAY for protection in winter. It would also be a much > better insulator than a sheet of plastic. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jtlehmann@aol.com > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Sent: Mon, Nov 8, 2010 2:25 pm > Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > > > I realize the interest is covering the entire bed, and not individual > plants, but as a word of caution: I have known people who used regular > bubble > wrap to protect individual tender plants without success; I know of no > one > who has used it with success. The plants rot over the winter. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From Santoury@aol.com Mon Nov 8 17:08:13 2010 Message-Id: <8CD4DA885E3F27C-1868-250D8@webmail-stg-d15.sysops.aol.com> From: santoury@aol.com Subject: Reflectix Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 17:07:52 -0500 I thought we were talking about bubble wrap? Isn't that plastic? Pardon if I misunderstood. The moisture from the rotting leaves is what causes the root rot that kills them. Sand actually probably may be part of the problem, since sand is very compressed, and does not allow for any air circulation. Maybe it would be helpful to know what kind of plants you're talking about. Massachusetts is probably much milder, but it's also very wet in winter. I don't cover the plants wet. Also, the fact that the styrofoam panels are flat allows air circulation under it. Also each plant is covered with 2-4" of dry sand.. Massachusetts winters can't be harsher than Chicago in terms of degrees below zero ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >I did not see the original post - but plastic will rot anything under it. >People here in Mass. cover lawns with plastic, or even tarps, in order to >kill grass, and everything else, to re-seed. > People here use HAY for protection in winter. It would also be a much > better insulator than a sheet of plastic. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jtlehmann@aol.com > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Sent: Mon, Nov 8, 2010 2:25 pm > Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > > > I realize the interest is covering the entire bed, and not individual > plants, but as a word of caution: I have known people who used regular > bubble > wrap to protect individual tender plants without success; I know of no > one > who has used it with success. The plants rot over the winter. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From rherold@yahoo.com Mon Nov 8 17:33:55 2010 Message-Id: <4CD87ACA.6000008@yahoo.com> From: Roy Herold Subject: Reflectix Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 17:33:46 -0500 I beg to differ regarding the use of impermeable plastic for covering plants in the winter in Massachusetts. It *does* work. Most of the big commercial nurseries around here that grow potted plants cover their outdoor stock with Microfoam. This is a closed cell polypropylene foam that is around 1/8" thick. Typically it is put over pots or beds after a hard freeze, and removed in March. An additional covering of white plastic film may be used. Note that everything is white to reflect sun, and minimize freeze-thaw cycles. I know home gardeners who have successfully used it, too. I agree that it would be foolish to use plastic in warmer weather, but that's not what we're talking about. Reflectix might work so long as it does not become brittle in cold weather. Microfoam might be more practical and cheaper, however, if you can use a 270 foot long roll. And styrofoam would also work if used properly, as Adam observes. Most nurseries stopped using hay a long, long time ago. --Roy NW of Boston From Santoury@aol.com Mon Nov 8 17:39:27 2010 Message-Id: <8CD4DACE52A0703-1868-2540F@webmail-stg-d15.sysops.aol.com> From: santoury@aol.com Subject: Reflectix Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 17:39:15 -0500 Hi, I'm talking about your usual houseowner, gardener; the use of hay is rampant at homes. I'm sure that nurseries and commercial growers would have different methods, which I'm not familiar with. Typically the ones that I know, put their perennials in a cold frame, rather than covering them up. I've never seen this done, actually. Interesting. -----Original Message----- From: Roy Herold To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Mon, Nov 8, 2010 5:33 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix I beg to differ regarding the use of impermeable plastic for covering plants in the winter in Massachusetts. It *does* work. Most of the big commercial nurseries around here that grow potted plants cover their outdoor stock with Microfoam. This is a closed cell polypropylene foam that is around 1/8" thick. Typically it is put over pots or beds after a hard freeze, and removed in March. An additional covering of white plastic film may be used. Note that everything is white to reflect sun, and minimize freeze-thaw cycles. I know home gardeners who have successfully used it, too. I agree that it would be foolish to use plastic in warmer weather, but that's not what we're talking about. Reflectix might work so long as it does not become brittle in cold weather. Microfoam might be more practical and cheaper, however, if you can use a 270 foot long roll. And styrofoam would also work if used properly, as Adam observes. Most nurseries stopped using hay a long, long time ago. --Roy NW of Boston _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From adam14113@ameritech.net Mon Nov 8 18:55:11 2010 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Reflectix Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 17:55:04 -0600 Hello Santoury in Mass. In was talking about growing oncocyclus species and hybrids. (very touchy) as examples of touchy geophytes. the idea was the the method might be extended to others needing to be protected. Sounds as if you missed a posting. Regards, Adam ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > > I thought we were talking about bubble wrap? Isn't that plastic? Pardon if > I misunderstood. > The moisture from the rotting leaves is what causes the root rot that > kills them. > Sand actually probably may be part of the problem, since sand is very > compressed, and does not allow for any air circulation. > Maybe it would be helpful to know what kind of plants you're talking > about. > Massachusetts is probably much milder, but it's also very wet in winter. > > > > I don't cover the plants wet. Also, the fact that the styrofoam panels > are flat allows air circulation under it. Also each plant is covered with > 2-4" of dry sand.. Massachusetts winters can't be harsher than Chicago in > terms of degrees below zero > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 3:21 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > >>I did not see the original post - but plastic will rot anything under it. >> >People here in Mass. cover lawns with plastic, or even tarps, in order to >> >kill grass, and everything else, to re-seed. >> People here use HAY for protection in winter. It would also be a much > >> better insulator than a sheet of plastic. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jtlehmann@aol.com >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> Sent: Mon, Nov 8, 2010 2:25 pm >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> >> >> I realize the interest is covering the entire bed, and not individual >> plants, but as a word of caution: I have known people who used regular > >> bubble >> wrap to protect individual tender plants without success; I know of no > >> one >> who has used it with success. The plants rot over the winter. >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pcamusa@hotmail.com Mon Nov 8 19:26:34 2010 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: Reflectix Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 19:21:30 -0500 Hi All- Thanks for all your comments. In my case I have the sand bed and the stone mulch bone dry when I cover it so I am not particularly concerned about rot. In fact, dryness seems to be as important as insulation. My major concern is keeping snow melt out of the soil with the consequent freeze damage in the next temperature drop. So I went ahead and picked up a couple of rolls tonight and I'll report on performance some time in April. Regards, Phil Southern (tropical) Michigan, zone 5ish. > From: adam14113@ameritech.net > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 17:55:04 -0600 > Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > > Hello Santoury in Mass. In was talking about growing oncocyclus species and > hybrids. (very touchy) as examples of touchy geophytes. the idea was the > the method might be extended to others needing to be protected. > > Sounds as if you missed a posting. Regards, Adam > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 4:07 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > > > > > > I thought we were talking about bubble wrap? Isn't that plastic? Pardon if > > I misunderstood. > > The moisture from the rotting leaves is what causes the root rot that > > kills them. > > Sand actually probably may be part of the problem, since sand is very > > compressed, and does not allow for any air circulation. > > Maybe it would be helpful to know what kind of plants you're talking > > about. > > Massachusetts is probably much milder, but it's also very wet in winter. > > > > > > > > I don't cover the plants wet. Also, the fact that the styrofoam panels > > are flat allows air circulation under it. Also each plant is covered with > > 2-4" of dry sand.. Massachusetts winters can't be harsher than Chicago in > > terms of degrees below zero > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 3:21 PM > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > > > >>I did not see the original post - but plastic will rot anything under it. > >> >People here in Mass. cover lawns with plastic, or even tarps, in order to > >> >kill grass, and everything else, to re-seed. > >> People here use HAY for protection in winter. It would also be a much > > >> better insulator than a sheet of plastic. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Jtlehmann@aol.com > >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> Sent: Mon, Nov 8, 2010 2:25 pm > >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > >> > >> > >> I realize the interest is covering the entire bed, and not individual > >> plants, but as a word of caution: I have known people who used regular > > >> bubble > >> wrap to protect individual tender plants without success; I know of no > > >> one > >> who has used it with success. The plants rot over the winter. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> pbs mailing list > >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> pbs mailing list > >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From Santoury@aol.com Mon Nov 8 20:12:21 2010 Message-Id: <8CD4DC24129E00C-1868-261BE@webmail-stg-d15.sysops.aol.com> From: santoury@aol.com Subject: BX 258 ? Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 20:12:04 -0500 Would somebody please forward me the list for 258? I need help figuring out what I got. From ksayce@willapabay.org Mon Nov 8 21:14:23 2010 Message-Id: From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: Seed storage Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 18:14:14 -0800 I use both small glass bowls (8-12-18 ounces, buy in packs of 4 or 6 or 8 depending on size) and paper bags, and like them both for different reasons. The bowls are stackable, heavy, even around me they seem unlikely to break very often, and the only drawback is my husband runs off with them to sort electronic parts. I use the bowls for wet seeds that need soaking. Dry seeds go into paper bags, label with a marker and park somewhere to dry until being cleaned. If I fold 2X and staple the top shut, I do not have to worry about aforementioned spouse or self knocking them over, etc. Speaking of seeds, despite a very cool summer here on the PNW coast, my Dierama pulcherrima plants managed to set seed. I know this is not a geophyte, but if anyone is interested, let me know and I can send some seeds on to others. Kathleen PNW coast, z 7-8-9, depending on the winter From adam14113@ameritech.net Mon Nov 8 21:17:05 2010 Message-Id: <6E24DE9C3B1C4AB5A79CBA819A001A04@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Reflectix Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 20:16:56 -0600 Phil? Your climate is much like mine in Glenview,IL Maybe a tad warmer due to lake effect and prevaiing winds. Does your soil slope to the SW?. Better if it does for combined effects of drainage, wind direction, etc. . ----- Original Message ----- From: "P. C. Andrews" To: Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > > Hi All- Thanks for all your comments. In my case I have the sand bed and > the stone mulch bone dry when I cover it so I am not particularly > concerned about rot. In fact, dryness seems to be as important as > insulation. My major concern is keeping snow melt out of the soil with > the consequent freeze damage in the next temperature drop. > So I went ahead and picked up a couple of rolls tonight and I'll report on > performance some time in April. > Regards, > Phil > Southern (tropical) Michigan, zone 5ish. > > >> From: adam14113@ameritech.net >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 17:55:04 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> >> Hello Santoury in Mass. In was talking about growing oncocyclus species >> and >> hybrids. (very touchy) as examples of touchy geophytes. the idea was >> the >> the method might be extended to others needing to be protected. >> >> Sounds as if you missed a posting. Regards, Adam >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 4:07 PM >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> >> >> > >> > I thought we were talking about bubble wrap? Isn't that plastic? Pardon >> > if >> > I misunderstood. >> > The moisture from the rotting leaves is what causes the root rot that >> > kills them. >> > Sand actually probably may be part of the problem, since sand is very >> > compressed, and does not allow for any air circulation. >> > Maybe it would be helpful to know what kind of plants you're talking >> > about. >> > Massachusetts is probably much milder, but it's also very wet in >> > winter. >> > >> > >> > >> > I don't cover the plants wet. Also, the fact that the styrofoam >> > panels >> > are flat allows air circulation under it. Also each plant is covered >> > with >> > 2-4" of dry sand.. Massachusetts winters can't be harsher than Chicago >> > in >> > terms of degrees below zero >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: >> > To: >> > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 3:21 PM >> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> > >> >>I did not see the original post - but plastic will rot anything under >> >>it. >> >> >People here in Mass. cover lawns with plastic, or even tarps, in >> >> >order to >> >> >kill grass, and everything else, to re-seed. >> >> People here use HAY for protection in winter. It would also be a much >> >> > >> >> better insulator than a sheet of plastic. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Jtlehmann@aol.com >> >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> Sent: Mon, Nov 8, 2010 2:25 pm >> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> >> >> >> >> >> I realize the interest is covering the entire bed, and not individual >> >> plants, but as a word of caution: I have known people who used >> >> regular > >> >> bubble >> >> wrap to protect individual tender plants without success; I know of no >> >> > >> >> one >> >> who has used it with success. The plants rot over the winter. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> pbs mailing list >> >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> pbs mailing list >> >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ >> > pbs mailing list >> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > pbs mailing list >> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From adam14113@ameritech.net Mon Nov 8 22:01:18 2010 Message-Id: <80AC9D9F575E4413B178D36D0848DAD2@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Reflectix Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 21:01:10 -0600 As you note. in some cases, dryness is more important than insulation. Th e oncocyclus irises for examplecan stand a fair amount of cold near zero but not wetness of rotting humus or the associated bacteria. Usually Erwinia carotovora. ----- Original Message ----- From: "P. C. Andrews" To: Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix w > > Hi All- Thanks for all your comments. In my case I have the sand bed and > the stone mulch bone dry when I cover it so I am not particularly > concerned about rot. In fact, dryness seems to be as important as > insulation. My major concern is keeping snow melt out of the soil with > the consequent freeze damage in the next temperature drop. > So I went ahead and picked up a couple of rolls tonight and I'll report on > performance some time in April. > Regards, > Phil > Southern (tropical) Michigan, zone 5ish. > > >> From: adam14113@ameritech.net >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 17:55:04 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> >> Hello Santoury in Mass. In was talking about growing oncocyclus species >> and >> hybrids. (very touchy) as examples of touchy geophytes. the idea was >> the >> the method might be extended to others needing to be protected. >> >> Sounds as if you missed a posting. Regards, Adam >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 4:07 PM >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> >> >> > >> > I thought we were talking about bubble wrap? Isn't that plastic? Pardon >> > if >> > I misunderstood. >> > The moisture from the rotting leaves is what causes the root rot that >> > kills them. >> > Sand actually probably may be part of the problem, since sand is very >> > compressed, and does not allow for any air circulation. >> > Maybe it would be helpful to know what kind of plants you're talking >> > about. >> > Massachusetts is probably much milder, but it's also very wet in >> > winter. >> > >> > >> > >> > I don't cover the plants wet. Also, the fact that the styrofoam >> > panels >> > are flat allows air circulation under it. Also each plant is covered >> > with >> > 2-4" of dry sand.. Massachusetts winters can't be harsher than Chicago >> > in >> > terms of degrees below zero >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: >> > To: >> > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 3:21 PM >> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> > >> >>I did not see the original post - but plastic will rot anything under >> >>it. >> >> >People here in Mass. cover lawns with plastic, or even tarps, in >> >> >order to >> >> >kill grass, and everything else, to re-seed. >> >> People here use HAY for protection in winter. It would also be a much >> >> > >> >> better insulator than a sheet of plastic. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Jtlehmann@aol.com >> >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> Sent: Mon, Nov 8, 2010 2:25 pm >> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> >> >> >> >> >> I realize the interest is covering the entire bed, and not individual >> >> plants, but as a word of caution: I have known people who used >> >> regular > >> >> bubble >> >> wrap to protect individual tender plants without success; I know of no >> >> > >> >> one >> >> who has used it with success. The plants rot over the winter. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> pbs mailing list >> >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> pbs mailing list >> >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ >> > pbs mailing list >> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > pbs mailing list >> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From klazina1@gmail.com Mon Nov 8 22:31:48 2010 Message-Id: <4CD8C0A5.8030303@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: Dierama pulcherrima Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 16:31:49 +1300 I have the Dierama Pulcherrima Dove. The WHITE flowers are bigger than the usual Fairy Wand, and the plant is about 2 meters tall. More delicately shaped than the common Dierama. Absolutely lovely when in flower. Mine has almost finished, so should be setting seed soon. If anyone is interested I would be happy to send seed to Dell. What do you think Dell? Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand where we are having gorgeous almost summer weather. Looks like another dry summer though. From pcamusa@hotmail.com Tue Nov 9 07:39:14 2010 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: Reflectix Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 07:39:11 -0500 Hi Adam- There is not a huge lake effect here but the winters don't seem any worse than mid-Indiana. The bed has a very minimal slope to the southeast but is against the foundation which offers some protection and it has a thick layer of sand for drainage (with a gravel drainage channel at the drip edge). I have a gradient of plants from the foundation outwards graded by cold and moisture sensitivity (mostly by trial and error). Regards, Phil > From: adam14113@ameritech.net > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 20:16:56 -0600 > Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > > Phil? Your climate is much like mine in Glenview,IL Maybe a tad warmer due > to lake effect and prevaiing winds. Does your soil slope to the SW?. > Better if it does for combined effects of drainage, wind direction, etc. . > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "P. C. Andrews" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 6:21 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > > > > > > Hi All- Thanks for all your comments. In my case I have the sand bed and > > the stone mulch bone dry when I cover it so I am not particularly > > concerned about rot. In fact, dryness seems to be as important as > > insulation. My major concern is keeping snow melt out of the soil with > > the consequent freeze damage in the next temperature drop. > > So I went ahead and picked up a couple of rolls tonight and I'll report on > > performance some time in April. > > Regards, > > Phil > > Southern (tropical) Michigan, zone 5ish. > > > > > >> From: adam14113@ameritech.net > >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 17:55:04 -0600 > >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > >> > >> Hello Santoury in Mass. In was talking about growing oncocyclus species > >> and > >> hybrids. (very touchy) as examples of touchy geophytes. the idea was > >> the > >> the method might be extended to others needing to be protected. > >> > >> Sounds as if you missed a posting. Regards, Adam > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: > >> To: > >> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 4:07 PM > >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > >> > >> > >> > > >> > I thought we were talking about bubble wrap? Isn't that plastic? Pardon > >> > if > >> > I misunderstood. > >> > The moisture from the rotting leaves is what causes the root rot that > >> > kills them. > >> > Sand actually probably may be part of the problem, since sand is very > >> > compressed, and does not allow for any air circulation. > >> > Maybe it would be helpful to know what kind of plants you're talking > >> > about. > >> > Massachusetts is probably much milder, but it's also very wet in > >> > winter. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > I don't cover the plants wet. Also, the fact that the styrofoam > >> > panels > >> > are flat allows air circulation under it. Also each plant is covered > >> > with > >> > 2-4" of dry sand.. Massachusetts winters can't be harsher than Chicago > >> > in > >> > terms of degrees below zero > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: > >> > To: > >> > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 3:21 PM > >> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > >> > > >> >>I did not see the original post - but plastic will rot anything under > >> >>it. > >> >> >People here in Mass. cover lawns with plastic, or even tarps, in > >> >> >order to > >> >> >kill grass, and everything else, to re-seed. > >> >> People here use HAY for protection in winter. It would also be a much > >> >> > > >> >> better insulator than a sheet of plastic. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: Jtlehmann@aol.com > >> >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> >> Sent: Mon, Nov 8, 2010 2:25 pm > >> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> I realize the interest is covering the entire bed, and not individual > >> >> plants, but as a word of caution: I have known people who used > >> >> regular > > >> >> bubble > >> >> wrap to protect individual tender plants without success; I know of no > >> >> > > >> >> one > >> >> who has used it with success. The plants rot over the winter. > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> pbs mailing list > >> >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> pbs mailing list > >> >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > pbs mailing list > >> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > pbs mailing list > >> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> pbs mailing list > >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 9 08:49:27 2010 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: BX 258 ? Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 13:47:50 +0000 In message <8CD4DC24129E00C-1868-261BE@webmail-stg-d15.sysops.aol.com>, santoury@aol.com writes >Would somebody please forward me the list for 258? >I need help figuring out what I got. All PBS list postings are archived on the web. You can see them from: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php and in particular BX 258 is at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2010-November/039167.html -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton-Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From adam14113@ameritech.net Tue Nov 9 11:03:55 2010 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Reflectix and oncocylus notes Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 10:03:46 -0600 Hi. Southeast is interesting because that's the exposure noted by Werckmeister and somebody else (Mouterde?) in an early paper for plants in Syria. Probably morning sun and only light from later when the sun's really hot in summer. . ----- Original Message ----- From: "P. C. Andrews" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 6:39 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > > Hi Adam- There is not a huge lake effect here but the winters don't seem > any worse than mid-Indiana. The bed has a very minimal slope to the > southeast but is against the foundation which offers some protection and > it has a thick layer of sand for drainage (with a gravel drainage channel > at the drip edge). I have a gradient of plants from the foundation > outwards graded by cold and moisture sensitivity (mostly by trial and > error). > Regards, > Phil > >> From: adam14113@ameritech.net >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 20:16:56 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> >> Phil? Your climate is much like mine in Glenview,IL Maybe a tad warmer >> due >> to lake effect and prevaiing winds. Does your soil slope to the SW?. >> Better if it does for combined effects of drainage, wind direction, etc. >> . >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "P. C. Andrews" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 6:21 PM >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> >> >> > >> > Hi All- Thanks for all your comments. In my case I have the sand bed >> > and >> > the stone mulch bone dry when I cover it so I am not particularly >> > concerned about rot. In fact, dryness seems to be as important as >> > insulation. My major concern is keeping snow melt out of the soil with >> > the consequent freeze damage in the next temperature drop. >> > So I went ahead and picked up a couple of rolls tonight and I'll report >> > on >> > performance some time in April. >> > Regards, >> > Phil >> > Southern (tropical) Michigan, zone 5ish. >> > >> > >> >> From: adam14113@ameritech.net >> >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 17:55:04 -0600 >> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> >> >> >> Hello Santoury in Mass. In was talking about growing oncocyclus >> >> species >> >> and >> >> hybrids. (very touchy) as examples of touchy geophytes. the idea was >> >> the >> >> the method might be extended to others needing to be protected. >> >> >> >> Sounds as if you missed a posting. Regards, Adam >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: >> >> To: >> >> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 4:07 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > I thought we were talking about bubble wrap? Isn't that plastic? >> >> > Pardon >> >> > if >> >> > I misunderstood. >> >> > The moisture from the rotting leaves is what causes the root rot >> >> > that >> >> > kills them. >> >> > Sand actually probably may be part of the problem, since sand is >> >> > very >> >> > compressed, and does not allow for any air circulation. >> >> > Maybe it would be helpful to know what kind of plants you're talking >> >> > about. >> >> > Massachusetts is probably much milder, but it's also very wet in >> >> > winter. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > I don't cover the plants wet. Also, the fact that the styrofoam >> >> > panels >> >> > are flat allows air circulation under it. Also each plant is >> >> > covered >> >> > with >> >> > 2-4" of dry sand.. Massachusetts winters can't be harsher than >> >> > Chicago >> >> > in >> >> > terms of degrees below zero >> >> > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: >> >> > To: >> >> > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 3:21 PM >> >> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> >> > >> >> >>I did not see the original post - but plastic will rot anything >> >> >>under >> >> >>it. >> >> >> >People here in Mass. cover lawns with plastic, or even tarps, in >> >> >> >order to >> >> >> >kill grass, and everything else, to re-seed. >> >> >> People here use HAY for protection in winter. It would also be a >> >> >> much >> >> >> > >> >> >> better insulator than a sheet of plastic. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> From: Jtlehmann@aol.com >> >> >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> >> Sent: Mon, Nov 8, 2010 2:25 pm >> >> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I realize the interest is covering the entire bed, and not >> >> >> individual >> >> >> plants, but as a word of caution: I have known people who used >> >> >> regular > >> >> >> bubble >> >> >> wrap to protect individual tender plants without success; I know of >> >> >> no >> >> >> > >> >> >> one >> >> >> who has used it with success. The plants rot over the winter. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> pbs mailing list >> >> >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> pbs mailing list >> >> >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > pbs mailing list >> >> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > pbs mailing list >> >> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> pbs mailing list >> >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > pbs mailing list >> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pcamusa@hotmail.com Tue Nov 9 11:43:28 2010 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: Reflectix and oncocylus notes Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 11:43:24 -0500 Adam, That is interesting, thanks for the references. I would like to say that my choice of bed location was based on my deep knowledge of bulb and succulent culture, but its the only viable place close to the house foundation. I got lucky. I had been concerned about the lack of late afternoon sun, but it seems to be fine for most agaves, cacti, and lilies but not so great for a few of the south african succulents that appear to need more sun. The site has worked so well that I kept expanding it and its now at the practical size limit. I would have to cut down a couple of the evil black walnuts to expand further. I have not tried oncocyclus yet but if you can grow them in Illinois, its worth a try here. Regards, Phil SE Michigan where the garden stores are out of most supplies as if no one gardens in November..... > From: adam14113@ameritech.net > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 10:03:46 -0600 > Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix and oncocylus notes > > Hi. Southeast is interesting because that's the exposure noted by > Werckmeister and somebody else (Mouterde?) in an early paper for plants in > Syria. Probably morning sun and only light from later when the sun's > really hot in summer. . > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "P. C. Andrews" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 6:39 AM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > > > > > > Hi Adam- There is not a huge lake effect here but the winters don't seem > > any worse than mid-Indiana. The bed has a very minimal slope to the > > southeast but is against the foundation which offers some protection and > > it has a thick layer of sand for drainage (with a gravel drainage channel > > at the drip edge). I have a gradient of plants from the foundation > > outwards graded by cold and moisture sensitivity (mostly by trial and > > error). > > Regards, > > Phil > > > >> From: adam14113@ameritech.net > >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 20:16:56 -0600 > >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > >> > >> Phil? Your climate is much like mine in Glenview,IL Maybe a tad warmer > >> due > >> to lake effect and prevaiing winds. Does your soil slope to the SW?. > >> Better if it does for combined effects of drainage, wind direction, etc. > >> . > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "P. C. Andrews" > >> To: > >> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 6:21 PM > >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > >> > >> > >> > > >> > Hi All- Thanks for all your comments. In my case I have the sand bed > >> > and > >> > the stone mulch bone dry when I cover it so I am not particularly > >> > concerned about rot. In fact, dryness seems to be as important as > >> > insulation. My major concern is keeping snow melt out of the soil with > >> > the consequent freeze damage in the next temperature drop. > >> > So I went ahead and picked up a couple of rolls tonight and I'll report > >> > on > >> > performance some time in April. > >> > Regards, > >> > Phil > >> > Southern (tropical) Michigan, zone 5ish. > >> > > >> > > >> >> From: adam14113@ameritech.net > >> >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> >> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 17:55:04 -0600 > >> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > >> >> > >> >> Hello Santoury in Mass. In was talking about growing oncocyclus > >> >> species > >> >> and > >> >> hybrids. (very touchy) as examples of touchy geophytes. the idea was > >> >> the > >> >> the method might be extended to others needing to be protected. > >> >> > >> >> Sounds as if you missed a posting. Regards, Adam > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: > >> >> To: > >> >> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 4:07 PM > >> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > I thought we were talking about bubble wrap? Isn't that plastic? > >> >> > Pardon > >> >> > if > >> >> > I misunderstood. > >> >> > The moisture from the rotting leaves is what causes the root rot > >> >> > that > >> >> > kills them. > >> >> > Sand actually probably may be part of the problem, since sand is > >> >> > very > >> >> > compressed, and does not allow for any air circulation. > >> >> > Maybe it would be helpful to know what kind of plants you're talking > >> >> > about. > >> >> > Massachusetts is probably much milder, but it's also very wet in > >> >> > winter. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > I don't cover the plants wet. Also, the fact that the styrofoam > >> >> > panels > >> >> > are flat allows air circulation under it. Also each plant is > >> >> > covered > >> >> > with > >> >> > 2-4" of dry sand.. Massachusetts winters can't be harsher than > >> >> > Chicago > >> >> > in > >> >> > terms of degrees below zero > >> >> > > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: > >> >> > To: > >> >> > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 3:21 PM > >> >> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > >> >> > > >> >> >>I did not see the original post - but plastic will rot anything > >> >> >>under > >> >> >>it. > >> >> >> >People here in Mass. cover lawns with plastic, or even tarps, in > >> >> >> >order to > >> >> >> >kill grass, and everything else, to re-seed. > >> >> >> People here use HAY for protection in winter. It would also be a > >> >> >> much > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> better insulator than a sheet of plastic. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> >> From: Jtlehmann@aol.com > >> >> >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> >> >> Sent: Mon, Nov 8, 2010 2:25 pm > >> >> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I realize the interest is covering the entire bed, and not > >> >> >> individual > >> >> >> plants, but as a word of caution: I have known people who used > >> >> >> regular > > >> >> >> bubble > >> >> >> wrap to protect individual tender plants without success; I know of > >> >> >> no > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> one > >> >> >> who has used it with success. The plants rot over the winter. > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> pbs mailing list > >> >> >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> pbs mailing list > >> >> >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> > pbs mailing list > >> >> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> > pbs mailing list > >> >> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> pbs mailing list > >> >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > pbs mailing list > >> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> pbs mailing list > >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From adam14113@ameritech.net Tue Nov 9 12:11:27 2010 Message-Id: <02449D0CAC2E4BC096DB866E39B599EE@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Reflectix and oncocylus notes Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 11:11:19 -0600 Corrrection and warning. I can't say that I can grow any of them reliably here. If you like them it's much better to try arilbreds first (hybrids wth tall bearded and regelia species--some very complex now with 50 years of breeding behind them. ----- Original Message ----- From: "P. C. Andrews" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix and oncocylus notes > > Adam, > That is interesting, thanks for the references. I would like to say that > my choice of bed location was based on my deep knowledge of bulb and > succulent culture, but its the only viable place close to the house > foundation. I got lucky. I had been concerned about the lack of late > afternoon sun, but it seems to be fine for most agaves, cacti, and lilies > but not so great for a few of the south african succulents that appear to > need more sun. The site has worked so well that I kept expanding it and > its now at the practical size limit. I would have to cut down a couple of > the evil black walnuts to expand further. > I have not tried oncocyclus yet but if you can grow them in Illinois, its > worth a try here. > Regards, > Phil > SE Michigan where the garden stores are out of most supplies as if no one > gardens in November..... > > > >> From: adam14113@ameritech.net >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 10:03:46 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix and oncocylus notes >> >> Hi. Southeast is interesting because that's the exposure noted by >> Werckmeister and somebody else (Mouterde?) in an early paper for plants >> in >> Syria. Probably morning sun and only light from later when the sun's >> really hot in summer. . >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "P. C. Andrews" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 6:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> >> >> > >> > Hi Adam- There is not a huge lake effect here but the winters don't >> > seem >> > any worse than mid-Indiana. The bed has a very minimal slope to the >> > southeast but is against the foundation which offers some protection >> > and >> > it has a thick layer of sand for drainage (with a gravel drainage >> > channel >> > at the drip edge). I have a gradient of plants from the foundation >> > outwards graded by cold and moisture sensitivity (mostly by trial and >> > error). >> > Regards, >> > Phil >> > >> >> From: adam14113@ameritech.net >> >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 20:16:56 -0600 >> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> >> >> >> Phil? Your climate is much like mine in Glenview,IL Maybe a tad >> >> warmer >> >> due >> >> to lake effect and prevaiing winds. Does your soil slope to the SW?. >> >> Better if it does for combined effects of drainage, wind direction, >> >> etc. >> >> . >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "P. C. Andrews" >> >> To: >> >> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 6:21 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > Hi All- Thanks for all your comments. In my case I have the sand >> >> > bed >> >> > and >> >> > the stone mulch bone dry when I cover it so I am not particularly >> >> > concerned about rot. In fact, dryness seems to be as important as >> >> > insulation. My major concern is keeping snow melt out of the soil >> >> > with >> >> > the consequent freeze damage in the next temperature drop. >> >> > So I went ahead and picked up a couple of rolls tonight and I'll >> >> > report >> >> > on >> >> > performance some time in April. >> >> > Regards, >> >> > Phil >> >> > Southern (tropical) Michigan, zone 5ish. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> From: adam14113@ameritech.net >> >> >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> >> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 17:55:04 -0600 >> >> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> >> >> >> >> >> Hello Santoury in Mass. In was talking about growing oncocyclus >> >> >> species >> >> >> and >> >> >> hybrids. (very touchy) as examples of touchy geophytes. the idea >> >> >> was >> >> >> the >> >> >> the method might be extended to others needing to be protected. >> >> >> >> >> >> Sounds as if you missed a posting. Regards, Adam >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> From: >> >> >> To: >> >> >> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 4:07 PM >> >> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I thought we were talking about bubble wrap? Isn't that plastic? >> >> >> > Pardon >> >> >> > if >> >> >> > I misunderstood. >> >> >> > The moisture from the rotting leaves is what causes the root rot >> >> >> > that >> >> >> > kills them. >> >> >> > Sand actually probably may be part of the problem, since sand is >> >> >> > very >> >> >> > compressed, and does not allow for any air circulation. >> >> >> > Maybe it would be helpful to know what kind of plants you're >> >> >> > talking >> >> >> > about. >> >> >> > Massachusetts is probably much milder, but it's also very wet in >> >> >> > winter. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I don't cover the plants wet. Also, the fact that the styrofoam >> >> >> > panels >> >> >> > are flat allows air circulation under it. Also each plant is >> >> >> > covered >> >> >> > with >> >> >> > 2-4" of dry sand.. Massachusetts winters can't be harsher than >> >> >> > Chicago >> >> >> > in >> >> >> > terms of degrees below zero >> >> >> > >> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: >> >> >> > To: >> >> >> > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 3:21 PM >> >> >> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>I did not see the original post - but plastic will rot anything >> >> >> >>under >> >> >> >>it. >> >> >> >> >People here in Mass. cover lawns with plastic, or even tarps, >> >> >> >> >in >> >> >> >> >order to >> >> >> >> >kill grass, and everything else, to re-seed. >> >> >> >> People here use HAY for protection in winter. It would also be a >> >> >> >> much >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> better insulator than a sheet of plastic. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> >> From: Jtlehmann@aol.com >> >> >> >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> >> >> Sent: Mon, Nov 8, 2010 2:25 pm >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Reflectix >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I realize the interest is covering the entire bed, and not >> >> >> >> individual >> >> >> >> plants, but as a word of caution: I have known people who used >> >> >> >> regular > >> >> >> >> bubble >> >> >> >> wrap to protect individual tender plants without success; I know >> >> >> >> of >> >> >> >> no >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> one >> >> >> >> who has used it with success. The plants rot over the winter. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >> pbs mailing list >> >> >> >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >> pbs mailing list >> >> >> >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> >> > pbs mailing list >> >> >> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> >> > pbs mailing list >> >> >> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> pbs mailing list >> >> >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > pbs mailing list >> >> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> pbs mailing list >> >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > pbs mailing list >> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From joshy46013@yahoo.com Tue Nov 9 15:27:49 2010 Message-Id: <306029.52542.qm@web52901.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Josh Young Subject: Does Anyone Grow Hippeastrum caupolicanense? Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 12:27:47 -0800 (PST) Hi guys, I've been researching and I ran across Hippeastrum caupolicanense, it is quite a beautiful specie, there seems to be almost nothing wrote about it other than it's from Bolivia. Here is the link to the picture Hippeastrum caupolicanense http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7nZfdHeE-aw/TFecEYgv2-I/AAAAAAAAAJ0/tinQ6oPg8go/s1600/madidi8.jpg Josh From oldtulips@yahoo.com Thu Nov 11 08:05:26 2010 Message-Id: <874804.98393.qm@web45206.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> From: r de vries Subject: flowers Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 04:58:40 -0800 (PST) this may be of some interest to you Charlie. --- On Fri, 11/5/10, Nhu Nguyen wrote: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Re: [pbs] Window flowers To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Friday, November 5, 2010, 5:17 PM Hi David, Modification of flowers (or lack thereof) almost always has to to with pollinators. Plants that don't need animal pollinators have much reduced petals. Plants that have bats pollinated flowers are often white, bloom at night, and may include a perch. Plants that are pollinated by birds are often colorful (red), blooms during the day and may include a perch (hummingbird pollinated flowers don't have perches). And perhaps by far the most elaborate flowers has to do with insect pollinators. Orchid is one of the groups that takes full advantage of this going from giving a sweet nectar reward to tricking insects to mate with them. Botanists call all of this pollination syndrome. The clearing in the petals must have something to do with these insect pollinators. Nhu Berkeley, CA -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/ On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:52 AM, David Ehrlich wrote: > Dear members, > > Has anyone done an investigation into why some flowers develop windows in > their > petals? > From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Thu Nov 11 08:28:24 2010 Message-Id: <83239.89987.qm@web84302.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: flowers Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 05:28:22 -0800 (PST) Rimmer, was this meant for me? Jim ----- Original Message ---- From: r de vries To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 7:58:40 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] flowers this may be of some interest to you Charlie. --- On Fri, 11/5/10, Nhu Nguyen wrote: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Re: [pbs] Window flowers To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Friday, November 5, 2010, 5:17 PM Hi David, Modification of flowers (or lack thereof) almost always has to to with pollinators. Plants that don't need animal pollinators have much reduced petals. Plants that have bats pollinated flowers are often white, bloom at night, and may include a perch. Plants that are pollinated by birds are often colorful (red), blooms during the day and may include a perch (hummingbird pollinated flowers don't have perches). And perhaps by far the most elaborate flowers has to do with insect pollinators. Orchid is one of the groups that takes full advantage of this going from giving a sweet nectar reward to tricking insects to mate with them. Botanists call all of this pollination syndrome. The clearing in the petals must have something to do with these insect pollinators. Nhu Berkeley, CA -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/ On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:52 AM, David Ehrlich wrote: > Dear members, > > Has anyone done an investigation into why some flowers develop windows in > their > petals? > From opbungalow@gmail.com Thu Nov 11 17:58:34 2010 Message-Id: From: David Maxwell Subject: Hipps that won't stay down! Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 14:58:32 -0800 Arg! I'm doing it again! Last year I swore that never again would I spend the holidays (alone) with pots of moist dirt in my living room & dining room! But sure enough, today I brought 9 pots on Hippeastrum in from out of the cold. While most of my Hippeastrum are yellowing & going dormant...'Dancing Queen', H.johnsonii, C.'Sumatra', 'Exotica' and H.striatum died back early and now look like they're gonna go again. So I gave 'em a good soak and brought 'em inside. Oh well. Early New Year's Resolution; I will build a greenhouse in 2011! -David in Sacramento From bulborum@gmail.com Sat Nov 13 04:48:47 2010 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Problems by sending plants to an other country Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 10:48:41 +0100 Here some things to know from Chronopost , USPS and others If you send a parcel and you pay an amount of money the correct phytosanitaire papers are on the parcel you think the parcel arrives save WRONG see email m-lefloch@chronopost.fr aan mij details 9 nov. (4 dagen geleden) Hello, As I was telling you by phone, Chronopost won't be allowed to clear your item because this kind of goods requires a phytosanitary control. You can call the broker Italfreight to the 01 74 25 24 87 that is allowed to clear plants and flower bulbs. Best Regards. Myriam. Myriam LE FLOCH (m-lefloch@chronopost.fr) it took 2 times over 30 minutes with beautiful music to receive this email Roland -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From bulborum@gmail.com Sat Nov 13 07:45:18 2010 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Problems by sending plants to an other country Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 13:45:17 +0100 Here is the Email I received after phoning the phone number mentioned cotation chronopost Douane Bonjour, Je me permets de vous faire ci-dessus le devis pour le dédouanement ... 9 nov. (4 dagen geleden) Douane Bonjour, Je me permets de vous faire ci-dessus le devis pour le dédouanement et la livraison de votre colis : Il faut que Chronopost nous mette à disposition le document phytosanitaire à disposition afin de pouvoir effectuer la visite auprès des service phytosanitaire. -Sommes acquittées à l’administration douanière : à l’identique des sommes avancées -Droits de douane : à l’identique des sommes avancées -tva douane : à l’identique des sommes avancées -Autre taxe à l’importation : à l’identique des sommes avancées -Frais de dossier : 150 euros -TID : 12 EUROS -Frais payés à Chronopost : 35 euros -Passage magasin : 25 euros -Si visite douane : à l’identique des sommes avancées : 50 euros -Livraison PARIS : 60 euros Normandie + 20 euros -Frais de visite phytosanitaire : 100 euros Tous les frais indiqués sont HT à 19.6% Le règlement vous sera demandé en espèce ou par virement à la livraison. Si cette proposition vous convient, merci de me confirmer par écrit votre « bon pour accord ». Merci de m’envoyer le numéro d’ordre Chronopost après les avoirs prévenu que vous passer par nous en nous mettant en copie sur le mail. BEST REGARDS / SALUTATIONS DAVID Bât. 3450 Module A 4 rue du Té - BP 16179 Tremblay en France 95702 Roissy CDG France PH: +33 174 25 24 87 FAX: +33 174 25 25 00 Roland -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From jshields@indy.net Sat Nov 13 08:49:07 2010 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20101113083651.03d1c0a8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Problems by sending plants to an other country Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 08:48:48 -0500 When I receive a shipment coming into the USA by air freight, I use a customs broker to handle clearing the shipment and to forward it on to me. I pay for all these extra services, which are avoided if one uses the postal service. In all cases, a phytosanitary certificate must accompany the shipment. It gets to be expensive. I rarely import anything anymore. In general, the US Postal Service handles parcels sent by mail, including Priority Mail, through US Customs. The cost is included in the postage. The process is much, much slower than using air freight and a customs broker. In all cases, a phytosanitary certificate must accompany the shipment. My customs broker has provided excellent service in the past, and I would be happy to provide their contact details to anyone in the USA who wants to import plant materials by air freight. This is by far the fastest and safest way to bring valuable plant materials into the USA. Just remember, air freight is rather inexpensive, but customs clearance with a broker is quite expensive. Any package imported into the USA by any means other than the postal service will require a customs broker unless you can act as your own broker at the port of entry. Jim Shields At 10:48 AM 11/13/2010 +0100, you wrote: >Here some things to know from Chronopost , USPS and others > >If you send a parcel and you pay an amount of money >the correct phytosanitaire papers are on the parcel >you think the parcel arrives save > >WRONG see email >......... ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 From bulborum@gmail.com Sat Nov 13 09:31:15 2010 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Problems by sending plants to an other country Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 15:31:10 +0100 Hello Jim I just calculated but I have to pay 618.81 USD for the broker and there was a phytosanitaire on the parcel from less as 2 kilo I find this a abnormal price Roland 2010/11/13 J.E. Shields > When I receive a shipment coming into the USA by air freight, I use a > customs broker to handle clearing the shipment and to forward it on to me. > I pay for all these extra services, which are avoided if one uses the > postal service. In all cases, a phytosanitary certificate must accompany > the shipment. It gets to be expensive. I rarely import anything anymore. > > R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From kimarj@aol.com Sat Nov 13 09:36:05 2010 Message-Id: <8CD515737B76E3B-16F4-86BE@webmail-m047.sysops.aol.com> From: kimarj@aol.com Subject: Problems by sending plants to an other country Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 09:35:56 -0500 (EST) Hello I think u have the wrong person..I am Kim... I don't remember ordering anything and if I did please cancel as this is way to costly!!! Thanks Kim Glenn -----Original Message----- From: bulborum botanicum To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:31 am Subject: Re: [pbs] Problems by sending plants to an other country Hello Jim I just calculated but I have to pay 618.81 USD for the broker and there was a phytosanitaire on the parcel from less as 2 kilo I find this a abnormal price Roland 2010/11/13 J.E. Shields > When I receive a shipment coming into the USA by air freight, I use a > customs broker to handle clearing the shipment and to forward it on to me. > I pay for all these extra services, which are avoided if one uses the > postal service. In all cases, a phytosanitary certificate must accompany > the shipment. It gets to be expensive. I rarely import anything anymore. > > R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kimarj@aol.com Sat Nov 13 09:38:23 2010 Message-Id: <8CD515784DFE065-16F4-8713@webmail-m047.sysops.aol.com> From: kimarj@aol.com Subject: Problems by sending plants to an other country Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 09:38:06 -0500 (EST) I am Kim Glen... wrong person for this email -----Original Message----- From: J.E. Shields To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sat, Nov 13, 2010 8:49 am Subject: Re: [pbs] Problems by sending plants to an other country When I receive a shipment coming into the USA by air freight, I use a customs broker to handle clearing the shipment and to forward it on to me. I pay for all these extra services, which are avoided if one uses the postal service. In all cases, a phytosanitary certificate must accompany the shipment. It gets to be expensive. I rarely import anything anymore. In general, the US Postal Service handles parcels sent by mail, including Priority Mail, through US Customs. The cost is included in the postage. The process is much, much slower than using air freight and a customs broker. In all cases, a phytosanitary certificate must accompany the shipment. My customs broker has provided excellent service in the past, and I would be happy to provide their contact details to anyone in the USA who wants to import plant materials by air freight. This is by far the fastest and safest way to bring valuable plant materials into the USA. Just remember, air freight is rather inexpensive, but customs clearance with a broker is quite expensive. Any package imported into the USA by any means other than the postal service will require a customs broker unless you can act as your own broker at the port of entry. Jim Shields At 10:48 AM 11/13/2010 +0100, you wrote: >Here some things to know from Chronopost , USPS and others > >If you send a parcel and you pay an amount of money >the correct phytosanitaire papers are on the parcel >you think the parcel arrives save > >WRONG see email >......... ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kimarj@aol.com Sat Nov 13 09:39:57 2010 Message-Id: <8CD5157C0814B52-16F4-875E@webmail-m047.sysops.aol.com> From: kimarj@aol.com Subject: Problems by sending plants to an other country Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 09:39:46 -0500 (EST) This email is being sent to me in error -----Original Message----- From: kimarj To: pbs Sent: Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:36 am Subject: Re: [pbs] Problems by sending plants to an other country Hello I think u have the wrong person..I am Kim... I don't remember ordering anything and if I did please cancel as this is way to costly!!! Thanks Kim Glenn -----Original Message----- From: bulborum botanicum To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:31 am Subject: Re: [pbs] Problems by sending plants to an other country Hello Jim I just calculated but I have to pay 618.81 USD for the broker and there was a phytosanitaire on the parcel from less as 2 kilo I find this a abnormal price Roland 2010/11/13 J.E. Shields > When I receive a shipment coming into the USA by air freight, I use a > customs broker to handle clearing the shipment and to forward it on to me. > I pay for all these extra services, which are avoided if one uses the > postal service. In all cases, a phytosanitary certificate must accompany > the shipment. It gets to be expensive. I rarely import anything anymore. > > R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kimarj@aol.com Sat Nov 13 09:41:43 2010 Message-Id: <8CD5157FB8F20C1-16F4-87A2@webmail-m047.sysops.aol.com> From: kimarj@aol.com Subject: Problems by sending plants to an other country Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 09:41:29 -0500 (EST) You are sending this to the wrong person -----Original Message----- From: bulborum botanicum To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sat, Nov 13, 2010 7:45 am Subject: [pbs] Problems by sending plants to an other country Here is the Email I received after phoning the phone number mentioned cotation chronopost Douane Bonjour, Je me permets de vous faire ci-dessus le devis pour le dédouanement ... 9 nov. (4 dagen geleden) Douane Bonjour, Je me permets de vous faire ci-dessus le devis pour le dédouanement et la livraison de votre colis : Il faut que Chronopost nous mette à disposition le document phytosanitaire à disposition afin de pouvoir effectuer la visite auprès des service phytosanitaire. -Sommes acquittées à l’administration douanière : à l’identique des sommes avancées -Droits de douane : à l’identique des sommes avancées -tva douane : à l’identique des sommes avancées -Autre taxe à l’importation : à l’identique des sommes avancées -Frais de dossier : 150 euros -TID : 12 EUROS -Frais payés à Chronopost : 35 euros -Passage magasin : 25 euros -Si visite douane : à l’identique des sommes avancées : 50 euros -Livraison PARIS : 60 euros Normandie + 20 euros -Frais de visite phytosanitaire : 100 euros Tous les frais indiqués sont HT à 19.6% Le règlement vous sera demandé en espèce ou par virement à la livraison. Si cette proposition vous convient, merci de me confirmer par écrit votre « bon pour accord ». Merci de m’envoyer le numéro d’ordre Chronopost après les avoirs prévenu que vous passer par nous en nous mettant en copie sur le mail. BEST REGARDS / SALUTATIONS DAVID Bât. 3450 Module A 4 rue du Té - BP 16179 Tremblay en France 95702 Roissy CDG France PH: +33 174 25 24 87 FAX: +33 174 25 25 00 Roland -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From dkramb@gmail.com Sat Nov 13 11:01:56 2010 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Rocky Mountain Rare Plants Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 11:01:51 -0500 I just got a card in the mail from R.M.R.P that this is the last year they will be selling seeds. I've purchased occasionally from them over the last decade, and it's kinda sad to see them close down. I thought I'd post a link here, since they do carry several geophytes. http://www.rmrp.com It's mostly an alpine collection, but I bet you'll find something of interest... From adam14113@ameritech.net Sat Nov 13 12:49:29 2010 Message-Id: <1F6F6990EB7E4D118DFF502D77B44AD4@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Problems by sending plants to an other country Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 11:49:25 -0600 This is important information that you posted, Jim. Not only have restrictions beome greater, but they have become such that trade between the U. S. and even Canada is seriously constrained. A few things might be worth importing but rarely for the backyard grower. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.E. Shields" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Problems by sending plants to an other country > When I receive a shipment coming into the USA by air freight, I use a > customs broker to handle clearing the shipment and to forward it on to me. > I pay for all these extra services, which are avoided if one uses the > postal service. In all cases, a phytosanitary certificate must accompany > the shipment. It gets to be expensive. I rarely import anything anymore. > > In general, the US Postal Service handles parcels sent by mail, including > Priority Mail, through US Customs. The cost is included in the postage. > The process is much, much slower than using air freight and a customs > broker. In all cases, a phytosanitary certificate must accompany the > shipment. > > My customs broker has provided excellent service in the past, and I would > be happy to provide their contact details to anyone in the USA who wants > to import plant materials by air freight. This is by far the fastest and > safest way to bring valuable plant materials into the USA. Just remember, > air freight is rather inexpensive, but customs clearance with a broker is > quite expensive. Any package imported into the USA by any means other > than the postal service will require a customs broker unless you can act > as your own broker at the port of entry. > > Jim Shields > > At 10:48 AM 11/13/2010 +0100, you wrote: >>Here some things to know from Chronopost , USPS and others >> >>If you send a parcel and you pay an amount of money >>the correct phytosanitaire papers are on the parcel >>you think the parcel arrives save >> >>WRONG see email >>......... > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From adam14113@ameritech.net Sat Nov 13 13:05:55 2010 Message-Id: <7ABCADD8F6984A479938BD170E87657B@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Rocky Mountain Rare Plants Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:05:51 -0600 Thanks Dennis. There are a few alternates, fortunately. Not necessarily the same stock at all, but keep looking. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Kramb" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 10:01 AM Subject: [pbs] Rocky Mountain Rare Plants >I just got a card in the mail from R.M.R.P that this is the last year they > will be selling seeds. I've purchased occasionally from them over the > last > decade, and it's kinda sad to see them close down. I thought I'd post a > link here, since they do carry several geophytes. > > http://www.rmrp.com > > It's mostly an alpine collection, but I bet you'll find something of > interest... > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kimarj@aol.com Sat Nov 13 21:02:36 2010 Message-Id: <8CD51B71B359499-1518-123D1@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com> From: kimarj@aol.com Subject: Rocky Mountain Rare Plants Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 21:02:20 -0500 (EST) ???? -----Original Message----- From: Adam Fikso To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sat, Nov 13, 2010 1:06 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] Rocky Mountain Rare Plants Thanks Dennis. There are a few alternates, fortunately. Not necessarily the same stock at all, but keep looking. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Kramb" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 10:01 AM Subject: [pbs] Rocky Mountain Rare Plants >I just got a card in the mail from R.M.R.P that this is the last year they > will be selling seeds. I've purchased occasionally from them over the > last > decade, and it's kinda sad to see them close down. I thought I'd post a > link here, since they do carry several geophytes. > > http://www.rmrp.com > > It's mostly an alpine collection, but I bet you'll find something of > interest... > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kimarj@aol.com Sat Nov 13 21:03:08 2010 Message-Id: <8CD51B72D633C5C-1518-123DB@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com> From: kimarj@aol.com Subject: Problems by sending plants to an other country Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 21:02:51 -0500 (EST) ???? -----Original Message----- From: Adam Fikso To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sat, Nov 13, 2010 12:49 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] Problems by sending plants to an other country This is important information that you posted, Jim. Not only have restrictions beome greater, but they have become such that trade between the U. S. and even Canada is seriously constrained. A few things might be worth importing but rarely for the backyard grower. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.E. Shields" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Problems by sending plants to an other country > When I receive a shipment coming into the USA by air freight, I use a > customs broker to handle clearing the shipment and to forward it on to me. > I pay for all these extra services, which are avoided if one uses the > postal service. In all cases, a phytosanitary certificate must accompany > the shipment. It gets to be expensive. I rarely import anything anymore. > > In general, the US Postal Service handles parcels sent by mail, including > Priority Mail, through US Customs. The cost is included in the postage. > The process is much, much slower than using air freight and a customs > broker. In all cases, a phytosanitary certificate must accompany the > shipment. > > My customs broker has provided excellent service in the past, and I would > be happy to provide their contact details to anyone in the USA who wants > to import plant materials by air freight. This is by far the fastest and > safest way to bring valuable plant materials into the USA. Just remember, > air freight is rather inexpensive, but customs clearance with a broker is > quite expensive. Any package imported into the USA by any means other > than the postal service will require a customs broker unless you can act > as your own broker at the port of entry. > > Jim Shields > > At 10:48 AM 11/13/2010 +0100, you wrote: >>Here some things to know from Chronopost , USPS and others >> >>If you send a parcel and you pay an amount of money >>the correct phytosanitaire papers are on the parcel >>you think the parcel arrives save >> >>WRONG see email >>......... > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ang.por@alice.it Sun Nov 14 04:44:08 2010 Message-Id: <27995259.441661289727845406.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> From: "ang.por@alice.it" Subject: Brunsvigia self sterility Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 10:44:05 +0100 (CET) Dear friends, does anyone know for sure if Brunsvigia spp. are self sterile of not? Last year I got 4 B. bosmaniae to bloom simultaneously, I hand pollinated crossing all them and got un unreal numer of seed. This year have bloomed 5 but I didn't pollinated any, anyway the set seeds on their own, but at afternoon a large number of moths visited the flowers, although the number of seeds has been much lower than past year. This year also has flowered a B. josephinae, which I have hand pollinated with Amaryllis and B. bosmaniae pollen, but not all flowers. So, some have developed a big pod with many seeds inside, while most of them are empty or have just 1-2 seeds. The question is this: if B. josephinae is self sterile, are these seeds all hybrids? In the case, I would send to the PBS BX, as they are really too many or my use. best wishes Angelo Porcelli Apulia - Southern Italy Alice body {margin:0;padding:0;} #footer { height:13px; font-size:11px; font-family:Arial, FreeSans, sans-serif; color:#ADADAD; margin:0; padding:7px 12px; text-align:right; border-top:1px solid #dcdcdc; } #footer a { text-decoration:none; color:#ADADAD; } #footer a:hover { color:#848484; } Inviato dalla nuova Alice mail From CGeat25049@aol.com Sun Nov 14 07:15:17 2010 Message-Id: <3e17f.17ec97d0.3a112cc9@aol.com> From: CGeat25049@aol.com Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 94, Issue 24 Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 07:15:05 EST Hello ! What happened with issue 24 ? So many repeated message. It is more like a dogfight that a message board. I think I was only able to extract three relevent items and some poor woman complaining about being emailed in error . Hello ??? Cherry G From bulborum@gmail.com Sun Nov 14 07:21:50 2010 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 94, Issue 24 Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 13:21:46 +0100 It was just a mistake from Kim a new member Roland 2010/11/14 > Hello ! What happened with issue 24 ? So many repeated message. It is more > like a dogfight that a message board. I think I was only able to extract > three relevent items and some poor woman complaining about being emailed > in > error . Hello ??? > Cherry G > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From ds429@comcast.net Sun Nov 14 13:29:19 2010 Message-Id: <000b01cb8429$da9c6800$8fd53800$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 260 Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 13:29:20 -0500 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 260" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact me for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Jim Waddick: 1. Neomarica candida - Plants. I believe this is the current correct name for this common blue/white /brown flowered "Walking Iris". These are propagules taken from the ends of specialized flower stalks. They are extremely easy to root and I suggest these simply be potted in good soil and kept watered. 2. Neomarica coerulea 'Regina' - a selection of this much larger species with large blue flowers. 3. Lilium formosanum - Seeds. Contrary to the name's expectation, this lily, native to Taiwan, is totally hardy outdoors in my Zone 5. Plants can grow from seed to bloom in one growing season if started early and pushed along. Will usually bloom well the second growing season and flower stalks can easily reach 7 ft and taller. One of the easiest lilies to grow from seed in my experience. From David Ehrlich: 4. Cypella coelestis. Fresh seed from a plant that came from Annie's Annuals. I have only tried germinating this seed once -- unsuccessfully. This will be my second attempt. 5. Iris suaveolens rubromarginata. Just a few plantlets/rhizomes. The rhizomes should be planted just beneath the soil surface, but the perennial roots go very deep, so a deep pot is required. Given enough root space, it will bloom twice a year. The brownish-purple blossoms are unimpressive except that they are as large as the 4" plant itself. 6. Ixia sp. Corms and cormels. This Ixia produces many cormlets, but it also produces many very pretty flowers. Beginning late April off-white red-tipped flowers with a dark eye and a pink blush on the reverse start opening. Soon, the eye fades to deep maroon with a scarlet edge while the white parts get whiter. Unfortunately, the display lasts little more than a month. It is summer dormant; growth resumes around the equinox, and the plant is in leaf through the winter. 7. Neomarica caerulea. Rootless propagules from this year's flowering. From Ron Redding: 8. Seed of Pamianthe peruviana From Jim Shields: 9. Seed of Haemanthus crispus (limited supply) 10. Seed of Haemanthus barkerae 11. Seed of Haemanthus coccineus From Mary Sue Ittner: 12. Seed of Toxicoscordion (Zigadenus) fremontii From Mark Mazer: 13. Large bulbs of Eucomis autumnalis ssp. clavata From Jerry Lehmann: 14. Small clumps of Agapanthus 'Queen Anne' 15. Tubers of Caladium 'White Queen' Thank you, Jim W., David, Ron, Jim S., Mary Sue, Mark, and Jerry !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From dkramb@gmail.com Sun Nov 14 13:35:40 2010 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Aril Society seed sale Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 13:35:34 -0500 Here's another source for geophytic seeds... http://www.arilsociety.org/index.pl?Seed2010 The Aril Society International is having their annual seed sale. Arils are irises that love arid conditions are naturally found in countries of the Middle East and Central Asia. They grow well in other climates if given proper care. I've had great success with hybrids of arils and "regular" bearded irises, here in Cincinnati. To order, send your list of items to the seed chair (hoepfner@privat.dk) and he'll instruct you how to make payment. From joshy46013@yahoo.com Sun Nov 14 13:37:18 2010 Message-Id: <497481.6829.qm@web52904.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Josh Young Subject: Pacific BX 260 Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 10:37:13 -0800 (PST) Dell, I'd like #8 Thanks Joshua Young 708 E 29th St Anderson, IN 46016 ________________________________ From: Dell Sherk To: Pacific Bulb Society ; Roger Macfarlane ; Mark Wilcox Sent: Sun, November 14, 2010 1:29:20 PM Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 260 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 260" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact me for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Jim Waddick: 1. Neomarica candida - Plants. I believe this is the current correct name for this common blue/white /brown flowered "Walking Iris". These are propagules taken from the ends of specialized flower stalks. They are extremely easy to root and I suggest these simply be potted in good soil and kept watered. 2. Neomarica coerulea 'Regina' - a selection of this much larger species with large blue flowers. 3. Lilium formosanum - Seeds. Contrary to the name's expectation, this lily, native to Taiwan, is totally hardy outdoors in my Zone 5. Plants can grow from seed to bloom in one growing season if started early and pushed along. Will usually bloom well the second growing season and flower stalks can easily reach 7 ft and taller. One of the easiest lilies to grow from seed in my experience. From David Ehrlich: 4. Cypella coelestis. Fresh seed from a plant that came from Annie's Annuals. I have only tried germinating this seed once -- unsuccessfully. This will be my second attempt. 5. Iris suaveolens rubromarginata. Just a few plantlets/rhizomes. The rhizomes should be planted just beneath the soil surface, but the perennial roots go very deep, so a deep pot is required. Given enough root space, it will bloom twice a year. The brownish-purple blossoms are unimpressive except that they are as large as the 4" plant itself. 6. Ixia sp. Corms and cormels. This Ixia produces many cormlets, but it also produces many very pretty flowers. Beginning late April off-white red-tipped flowers with a dark eye and a pink blush on the reverse start opening. Soon, the eye fades to deep maroon with a scarlet edge while the white parts get whiter. Unfortunately, the display lasts little more than a month. It is summer dormant; growth resumes around the equinox, and the plant is in leaf through the winter. 7. Neomarica caerulea. Rootless propagules from this year's flowering. From Ron Redding: 8. Seed of Pamianthe peruviana From Jim Shields: 9. Seed of Haemanthus crispus (limited supply) 10. Seed of Haemanthus barkerae 11. Seed of Haemanthus coccineus From Mary Sue Ittner: 12. Seed of Toxicoscordion (Zigadenus) fremontii From Mark Mazer: 13. Large bulbs of Eucomis autumnalis ssp. clavata From Jerry Lehmann: 14. Small clumps of Agapanthus 'Queen Anne' 15. Tubers of Caladium 'White Queen' Thank you, Jim W., David, Ron, Jim S., Mary Sue, Mark, and Jerry !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From zigur@hotmail.com Sun Nov 14 14:00:08 2010 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: Brunsvigia self sterility Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 10:55:03 -0800 B. josephinae and bosmaniae are self-fertile here in Southern California. Another friend in Europe also selfs B. josephinae, producing copious quantities of seed. T > does anyone know for sure if Brunsvigia spp. are self sterile of not? From mikemace@att.net Sun Nov 14 14:21:23 2010 Message-Id: <000e01cb8431$1ce08050$56a180f0$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Brunsvigia self sterility Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 11:21:17 -0800 Angelo wrote: >> does anyone know for sure if Brunsvigia spp. are self sterile of not? B. marginata appears to be, That's the only one I've been able to test directly -- yet. Congratulations on getting all those Brunsvigias to bloom! >>if B. josephinae is self sterile, are these seeds all hybrids? It's because of questions like this that I put tags on the flowers when I make crosses. I use twist ties, write the name of the pollen parent on the side of the tie, and twist it around the flower stem. The only downside is that you have to write really tiny... Mike San Jose, CA From jripperda@sbcglobal.net Sun Nov 14 16:08:08 2010 Message-Id: <364397.10865.qm@web180104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> From: Jerry Ripperda Subject: Request: Pacific BX 260 Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 13:08:05 -0800 (PST) 8. Seed of Pamianthe peruviana From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Nov 15 03:12:50 2010 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Aril Society seed sale Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 00:12:48 -0800 Dennis, Do you mean that non-members can buy the Aril Society seeds? Diane From jimlykos@bigpond.com Mon Nov 15 06:59:11 2010 Message-Id: <694A35AB2C964847816DC68064D2133D@amaryllis> From: "jim lykos" Subject: Brunsvigia self sterility Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 22:44:45 +1100 Hi Angelo and all Concerning self sterility in Brunsvigia's - it has become apparent to me that sterilty/fertility is foremost a direct factor of the Brunsvigia bulbs reserves and growth vigor. The first two flowerings of B. josephinea in my garden produced 27 and 31 flowers in subsequent years. However selfings in both these years failed, with only 3 seeds in the second year which failed to survive as seedlings. However with the continued growth and vigor of the B. josephinea bulb into its third year of flowering reached a peak of 43 flowers. Attempted hybrids were made between B josephinea and Amaryllis, Amarygia and Crinum species together with selfings of B. josephinea. With this higher flower count the Brunsvigia josephinea proved to be self fertile producing from 2 to 8 seeds from each seed capsule. The intergeneric cross with Amarygia produced from 4 to 7 seeds per capsule and 0 to 2 seeds for crosses with Crinums. This latter seed initally grew as Brunsvigia seedlings. The following year there were only 22 flowers on the B. josephinea and it again proved to be almost sterile seed parent to selfings and intergeneric crosses. Seed fertility was restored in the following year when there were 38 flowers produced in late summer. The other observations related to flower count is that the number of bulb leaves produced in early autumn is proportional to the flower count in the following summer. It was also noted that when intergeneric crosses with Crinums or Amargias failed, they still produced one or two seeds that looked identical to Brunsvigia seeds. Occasionally a different coloured seed was produced but these failed to germinate. My conclusion was that the Brunsvigia capsules producing one or two seeds were produced by Apomixis, I tested this out in a subsequent year by using the pollen of a real outlier Doryanthes exsela a massive Agavaceae from Australia known as the Gymea lily. I managed to get one to two seeds from each Brunsvigia flower polinated by Doryanthes - but the seeds were all Brunsvigia josephinea. I have tried similar crosses with B. marginata and it behaves like B. josephinea. Cheers Jim Lykos Blue Mountains Australia From dkramb@gmail.com Mon Nov 15 07:32:13 2010 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Aril Society seed sale Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 07:32:08 -0500 oops no, its a members only thing. I forgot to mention that! On 11/15/10, Diane Whitehead wrote: > Dennis, > > Do you mean that non-members can buy the Aril Society seeds? > > Diane > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From ds429@comcast.net Mon Nov 15 10:01:42 2010 Message-Id: <001d01cb84d6$0a8be840$1fa3b8c0$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Request: Pacific BX 260 Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 10:01:47 -0500 I have received your order. Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Ripperda Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 4:08 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Request: Pacific BX 260 8. Seed of Pamianthe peruviana From adam14113@ameritech.net Mon Nov 15 12:01:00 2010 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Aril Society seed sale Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 10:54:09 -0600 But membership is cheap. One of the cheapest of all plant societies.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Kramb" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Aril Society seed sale > oops no, its a members only thing. I forgot to mention that! > > > On 11/15/10, Diane Whitehead wrote: >> Dennis, >> >> Do you mean that non-members can buy the Aril Society seeds? >> >> Diane >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From dkramb@gmail.com Mon Nov 15 22:43:17 2010 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Tillandsias Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 22:43:15 -0500 I suppose these are horribly off-topic, being epiphytes? But, during my trip to Los Angeles I visited Rainforest Flora and left with an armload of new Tillandsias to add to my collection. I had 5 Tillandsias already, back home... and now I have another 15. And some of them are huge! What really got me excited were the "bulbous" species that I had never encountered before. They look like they're from another planet. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1709285213390&set=a.1709282373319.99370.1275877606 They're wanna-be geophytes, I guess. :-) I just love them! I learned a lot during that visit. I never realized the genus was so diverse... with species that grow in deserts, and others that grow in shady rain forests. Some are tiny, and others have inflorescences several feet tall and wide. And some are heavenly fragrant! (I bought a lot of those.) So... just to recap... this year's new obsessions were: carnivorous plants, gesneriads, orchids, and now tillandsias. LOL. But my old die-hard passions are still there... irises, native wildflowers, and of course geophytes!!! (Actually, there are several geophytes amongst the carnivorous plants, gesneriads, orchids, irises, and native wildflowers... but not Tillandsias.) Dennis in Cincinnati From dkramb@gmail.com Mon Nov 15 22:47:36 2010 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Canna seedling Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 22:47:35 -0500 I had a Canna seedling appear in my garden where I haven't grown any Cannas in years. I dug it up a couple weeks ago after our first frost, but I'm wondering if I should replant it now and try to keep it growing through winter. It seems so small. Does anyone have a recommendation? Likewise, I got some Canna flaccida seeds from the recent BX offering, and wondering if I should sow them now and grow them under lights this winter? Any recommendations? Dennis in Cincinnati From mikemace@att.net Tue Nov 16 00:02:20 2010 Message-Id: <006c01cb854b$70414c00$50c3e400$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Brunsvigia self sterility Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 21:02:15 -0800 Jim, that's extremely interesting information. Thanks for sharing it. Mike From zigur@hotmail.com Tue Nov 16 00:12:21 2010 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: Brunsvigia self sterility Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 21:12:19 -0800 Jim's answer has me wondering - what is the best test for the occurence of apomixy? I frequently see many presumed instances of self-pollination, but never any proof, or even consideration of potential apomixy. This is a general botanical question, not limited to geophytes. I'm not sure Doryanthes are in the Agavaceae either. T > capsules producing one or two seeds > were produced by Apomixis, I tested this out in a subsequent year by using > the pollen of a real outlier Doryanthes exsela a massive Agavaceae from > Australia known as the Gymea lily. I managed to get one to two seeds from > each Brunsvigia flower polinated by Doryanthes - but the seeds were all > Brunsvigia josephinea. From adam14113@ameritech.net Tue Nov 16 00:55:39 2010 Message-Id: <65B6ABA181F2452A899B7C225A53A642@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Canna seedling Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 23:55:33 -0600 If it came through last winter and survived and is a volunteer, I'd leave it in place--marking the spot to see if it isn't something different. And if it comes up, record the lowest temperature. there ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Kramb" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 9:47 PM Subject: [pbs] Canna seedling >I had a Canna seedling appear in my garden where I haven't grown any Cannas > in years. I dug it up a couple weeks ago after our first frost, but I'm > wondering if I should replant it now and try to keep it growing through > winter. It seems so small. Does anyone have a recommendation? > > Likewise, I got some Canna flaccida seeds from the recent BX offering, and > wondering if I should sow them now and grow them under lights this winter? > Any recommendations? > > Dennis in Cincinnati > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From arnold140@verizon.net Tue Nov 16 07:08:10 2010 Message-Id: <2031038333.366075.1289909277371.JavaMail.root@vznit170072> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Brunsvigia self sterility Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 06:07:57 -0600 (CST) Doryanthes is in Doryanthaceae Only one genus. Arnold Nov 16, 2010 12:12:26 AM, pbs@lists.ibiblio.org wrote: Jim's answer has me wondering - what is the best test for the occurence of apomixy? I frequently see many presumed instances of self-pollination, but never any proof, or even consideration of potential apomixy. This is a general botanical question, not limited to geophytes. I'm not sure Doryanthes are in the Agavaceae either. T > capsules producing one or two seeds > were produced by Apomixis, I tested this out in a subsequent year by using > the pollen of a real outlier Doryanthes exsela a massive Agavaceae from > Australia known as the Gymea lily. I managed to get one to two seeds from > each Brunsvigia flower polinated by Doryanthes - but the seeds were all > Brunsvigia josephinea. From carlobal@netzero.net Tue Nov 16 09:12:36 2010 Message-Id: <94048E8B-7FB5-4657-9315-FEF1BFE09ED2@netzero.com> From: "Carlo A. Balistrieri" Subject: Tillandsias Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 09:12:10 -0500 Ahh, Dennis, you've hit upon one of my loves. I have had upwards of 30 or so species (there are many more) and grow them, for the most part, just laying around under the lights. There are a couple other good sources for plants and a book or two (in storage at the moment-- sorry). My favorites are the little guys--and the aforementioned blobs. Carlo 2 6 2 . 4 9 0 . 6 1 6 3 New York NJ Philadelphia From wusong@evilemail.com Tue Nov 16 09:25:37 2010 Message-Id: From: dave s Subject: Tillandsias Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 09:25:35 -0500 The "bulb"-type tillandsias are usually shaped that way to benefit ants (myrmecophytic), getting protection from pests in return. The bulb shape and the long, tubular leaves make sort of a pre-fab ant-farm. The bulb doesn't do much as far as water or nutrient storage, but serves more as a barracks. -Dave On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Carlo A. Balistrieri wrote: > Ahh, Dennis, you've hit upon one of my loves. I have had upwards of 30 or > so species (there are many more) and grow them, for the most part, just > laying around under the lights. There are a couple other good sources for > plants and a book or two (in storage at the moment--sorry). My favorites are > the little guys--and the aforementioned blobs. > > Carlo > > > > 2 6 2 . 4 9 0 . 6 1 6 3 > New York NJ Philadelphia > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- "I *hate* this place. This *zoo*. This *prison*...I can't stand it any longer. It's the smell...I feel saturated by it. I can taste your stink and every time I do, I fear that I've somehow been infected by it." - Agent Smith From jshields104@comcast.net Tue Nov 16 09:55:11 2010 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20101116095006.03966e20@mail.comcast.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Blooming in the Greenhouse Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 09:54:53 -0500 Hi all, Starting to bloom in the greenhouse are my second- or third-season Nerine: bowdenii, humilis, and undulata. Only one bowdenii scape is up so far, and one undulata; but the whole potful of humilis are sending up scapes. This is the first time the humilis have ever bloomed for me, so this is very satisfyling. The sarniensis hybrids finished several weeks ago. The "first season" of nerines here is in July and August, when filifolia, krigei, laticoma, filamentosa, and angulata/angustifolia/appendiculata bloom. Jim Shields in chilly, overcast central Indiana USA ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Nov 16 10:18:37 2010 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: New wiki Pix Ungernia Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 09:18:27 -0600 Dear All, My friend Panayoti Kelaidis travelled to Kazakhstan in late summer. He sent me a couple pix and allowed me to share them with PBS friends. Mary Sue was kind enough to wrangle these on to the wiki. The pix are taken on the border of Kazakhstan and Kyrgestan in a steppe filled with Ungernia sewerzowii gone to seed. The pictures clearly show the 'odd" ,but perfectly normal seed of this genus. Ungernia is the closest relative to Lycoris in the Family Amaryllidaceae and these seed pods look very similar. The seed itself could hardly be more different. Ungernia seed is flat , black and papery like many warm climate Amarayllids, while Lycoris have hard, round, black, pea-size seed. We can only hope that Panayoti brought back lots of seeds and will soon be offering photos of a bank of Ungernia in bloom at Denver Botanic Garden. See http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Ungernia Thanks to PK and MSI. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From ang.por@alice.it Tue Nov 16 14:42:16 2010 Message-Id: <22591820.593391289936286317.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> From: "ang.por@alice.it" Subject: : Brunsvigia self sterility Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 20:38:06 +0100 (CET) Thank Jim for your considerations, which come from your direct observation, but I have to share mine too. One Brunsvigia littoralis flowers well from three years, but it has never set any seed so far, selfed or crossed with Amaryllis pollen. This summer another littoralis has flowered for the first time and I have crossed both reciprocally, but none of them has set seeds. On the other hand, the B. josephinae, at its first flowering (38 florets) has set an average of 8-10 seeds per pod, on those I have hand pollinated with B. bosmaniae and Amaryllis pollen, and while I haven't put any mark on them, I am pretty sure that three of them are those I pollinated. Angelo Porcelli Apulia - Southern Italy Alice body {margin:0;padding:0;} #footer { height:13px; font-size:11px; font-family:Arial, FreeSans, sans-serif; color:#ADADAD; margin:0; padding:7px 12px; text-align:right; border-top:1px solid #dcdcdc; } #footer a { text-decoration:none; color:#ADADAD; } #footer a:hover { color:#848484; } Inviato dalla nuova Alice mail From CGeat25049@aol.com Tue Nov 16 16:26:51 2010 Message-Id: From: CGeat25049@aol.com Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 94, Issue 28 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 16:26:35 EST Hello all, I just received a shipment of seeds form bx259. I notice that the haemanthus and nerine are in the process of germinating ( root emerging). I know that haemanthus cannot hold off germination, Is nerine the same type of seed? It would be good to know this if I buy nerine seeds in the future so I don't let them sit for weeks. Cherry G From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Nov 16 16:37:42 2010 Message-Id: <68DFFE43-153D-483D-BAF4-49AB716EEE58@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: germinating in the mail Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:37:38 -0800 Yes, I have received them already growing, and I have had ones from my own plants start to grow in the bag I put them in. They did OK when I finally put them in a pot, but I wouldn't want to leave them unlooked at for a year. Diane On 16-Nov-10, at 1:26 PM, CGeat25049@aol.com wrote: > I notice that the > haemanthus and nerine are in the process of germinating ( root > emerging). I know > that haemanthus cannot hold off germination, Is nerine the same type > of > seed? It would be good to know this if I buy nerine seeds in the > future so I > don't let them sit for weeks. From jwickham@sbcglobal.net Tue Nov 16 16:49:27 2010 Message-Id: <6414.7064.qm@web81505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: John Wickham Subject: germinating in the mail Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:45:32 -0800 (PST) I had the same experience on both...except I don't think those are roots emerging, they look more like shoots. I potted them up immediately. John --- On Tue, 11/16/10, Diane Whitehead wrote: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: [pbs] germinating in the mail To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Tuesday, November 16, 2010, 1:37 PM Yes, I have received them already growing, and I have had ones from my own plants start to grow in the bag I put them in.  They did OK when I finally put them in a pot, but I wouldn't want to leave them unlooked at for a year. Diane On 16-Nov-10, at 1:26 PM, CGeat25049@aol.com wrote: > I notice that the > haemanthus and nerine are in the process of germinating ( root emerging). I know > that haemanthus cannot hold off germination, Is nerine the same type of > seed?  It would be good to know this if I buy nerine seeds in the future so  I > don't let them sit for weeks. From jshields@indy.net Tue Nov 16 16:52:19 2010 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20101116164442.05704c80@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: germinating in the mail Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 16:52:04 -0500 Growing rather a lot of Haemanthus here, and tending to procrastinate, I've planted "seeds" that were miniature bulbs with a small leaf and a few short roots. These seedlings do just fine once you pot them. If you worry about rot, a tabletop is a good place to germinate Haemanthus, Scadoxus, Crinum, and Nerine seeds of many species. Don't do this with Clivia seeds; they need more moisture to germinate well. For species (a few Haemanthus, more Nerine) that make very tiny "bulbs" when germinated dry, you can't wait anywhere near a year to plant them. The really little ones will shrivel up and die in just a couple of months. Jim Shields At 01:37 PM 11/16/2010 -0800, you wrote: >Yes, I have received them already growing, and I have had ones from my >own plants start to grow in the bag I put them in. They did OK when I >finally put them in a pot, but I wouldn't want to leave them unlooked >at for a year. > >Diane ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 From xerantheum@gmail.com Tue Nov 16 17:46:32 2010 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Blooming in the Greenhouse Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 14:46:29 -0800 Hi Jim and all, Congratulations on all the bloomings. Nerine is a wonderful genus. Everything must look so fantastic in your greenhouse now. Would you take some photos of N. laticoma for the wiki? Nerine season in the Bay Area is long this year. The first to start was N. bowdenii followed by N. humilis about a month ago and now N. pudica is blooming. The strangest thing is that N. sarniensis hybrids have just sent up scapes and the first flower opened about 5 days ago. The late season this year is probably due to the late dormancy. These plants still had leaves in late June and probably even July. Nhu -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/ On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 6:54 AM, J.E. Shields wrote: > > Starting to bloom in the greenhouse are my second- or third-season Nerine: > bowdenii, humilis, and undulata. Only one bowdenii scape is up so far, and > one undulata; but the whole potful of humilis are sending up scapes. > > This is the first time the humilis have ever bloomed for me, so this is > very satisfyling. The sarniensis hybrids finished several weeks ago. The > "first season" of nerines here is in July and August, when filifolia, > krigei, laticoma, filamentosa, and angulata/angustifolia/appendiculata > bloom. > > From pelarg@aol.com Tue Nov 16 17:50:14 2010 Message-Id: <8CD53F7BCF6DB10-D40-1F69@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> From: pelarg@aol.com Subject: Canna seedling Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 17:50:03 -0500 (EST) Hi Dennis, Funny you should mention the canna seedling, I had exactly the same thing happen in my school garden, apparently a canna that was there two years before self sowed. I dug the seedling a couple of weeks ago (its pretty small), potted it, and it is under fluorescent lights in my classroom. It should grow fine, then it can go out next spring. I imagine you could do the same, or put it in a sunny window. Keep in mind cannas can be subject to spider mites indoors, other than that they should present no special problem. The fact that the seed germinated after laying around over a year in the soil suggests that if you want rapid germination of your BX canna seed, it would be advisable to file or nick a hole in the seed, just enough to pierce the water impermeable seed coat. Care (or the use of a vise) is advised, the seeds tend to go flying pretty easily if you don't have a good grip on them and you are trying to chip the coat. If you wait till early spring to start the seedd indoors, that should be enough time for the seedlings to grow to flowering size if given good care that year, so there is no particular need to start them right away. Good luck, Ernie Tuckahoe, NY -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Kramb To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Mon, Nov 15, 2010 10:47 pm Subject: [pbs] Canna seedling I had a Canna seedling appear in my garden where I haven't grown any Cannas n years. I dug it up a couple weeks ago after our first frost, but I'm ondering if I should replant it now and try to keep it growing through inter. It seems so small. Does anyone have a recommendation? Likewise, I got some Canna flaccida seeds from the recent BX offering, and ondering if I should sow them now and grow them under lights this winter? ny recommendations? Dennis in Cincinnati ______________________________________________ bs mailing list bs@lists.ibiblio.org ttp://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ttp://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Nov 16 18:04:56 2010 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: germinating in the mail Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 15:04:11 -0800 When I was doing the intake phase of the NARGS Seed Exchange in the mid-1990s, I got a donation from Australia that included Calostemma purpureum. The envelope fell open, and out rolled what looked like a bunch of sprouting garbanzo beans. I potted them up and gave samples away at our local chapter. The ones I kept are in flower as I write. This is not a showy flower but of course interesting to grow an Australian geophyte here. Jane McGary A From jshields@indy.net Tue Nov 16 18:06:17 2010 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20101116180501.05704f10@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Blooming in the Greenhouse Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 18:06:03 -0500 To whom can I send some images of Nerine laticoma for the wiki? Jim S. At 02:46 PM 11/16/2010 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Jim and all, > >Congratulations on all the bloomings. Nerine is a wonderful genus. >Everything must look so fantastic in your greenhouse now. Would you take >some photos of N. laticoma for the wiki? >....... ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Tue Nov 16 18:18:07 2010 Message-Id: <410-220101121623186453@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: Blooming in the Greenhouse Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 18:18:06 -0500 The strangest thing is that N. sarniensis hybrids have just sent > up scapes and the first flower opened about 5 days ago. The late season this > year is probably due to the late dormancy. Previous reports had led me to believe that my N. sarniensis were late, having just gone over. Apparently not. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 8 From ds429@comcast.net Tue Nov 16 18:31:15 2010 Message-Id: <001b01cb85e6$5d5bca20$18135e60$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: germinating in the mail Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 18:31:16 -0500 In my experience, almost all fleshy amaryllid seed might see fit to germinate before they are planted. I suspect that this gives them an advantage in their natural habitats where the window of opportunity for successful development is of limited size. Along with the genera that Jim S. mentions, the African strumaria, hessea, gethyllis(?), amaryllis, brunsvigia, cybistetes, boophane, etc. and the American hymenocallis and perhaps the Australasian proiphys and calostemma do the same thing. Holding the seeds under refrigeration helps slow down germination for awhile. I think they all benefit from being planted fresh, if their preferred moisture requirements are met. One thing that seems to be true about all of these seeds is that they need to be surface sown. In some cases there is chlorophyll in the seeds that supplies sustenance when there is sunlight available, I think. Best wishes, Dell From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Tue Nov 16 19:16:22 2010 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: New wiki Pix Ungernia Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 16:15:58 -0800 Tell Panayoti thanks for the photos. I wish someone had some good instructions on how to grow these. I now have four seedlings/small bulbs (2 are 4 years old, 2 are 3 years old) that somehow managed to sprout from seeds I got from J J Halda over the years. One or two I think are U. sewerzowii and the other two are two different U. sp. However, I cannot figure out there annual growth cycle. They seem to leaf out at some random time that has been as early as late winter here in So. Calif. and as late as early summer. Some years they go dormant when it starts to get hot after the June gloom finally goes away. Other years like this one, where we had June gloom all the way in to August, they didn't leaf out until June and grew all summer long and into autumn. (Of course we got almost no hot spells except for about two weeks in Sept.) I've decided to dry them off now regardless. Also all they ever produce is two leaves, although the leaves get longer and wider each year. This year the older ones have leaves that are maybe 5 mm wide and 15 cm long. They look a little Lycoris-ish now. In previous years they just looked kind of amaryllid-ish and so I was never sure they really were Ungernias and not some random other amaryllid that somehow found it's way into these various pots (like Zephyranthes). However, they are extremely slow growing, which Zephyranthes definitely are not. Also I have them in small long pots and they seem to grow deeper than Zephs. So how should I be growing them during the year? When should I start giving them water and when should I start drying them off, etc. Should they be kept dry over winter, too? I try to leave them exposed in winter to our chilly but above-freezing winter temperatures. Should they not be watered in summer once it's hot, unless it's cool like this one was? I have no idea how to treat them, but so far, cross my fingers, they haven't died or rotted on me. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a On Nov 16, 2010, at 7:18 AM, James Waddick wrote: > The pix are taken on the border of Kazakhstan and Kyrgestan in a steppe filled with Ungernia sewerzowii gone to seed. The pictures clearly show the 'odd" ,but perfectly normal seed of this genus. Ungernia is the closest relative to Lycoris in the Family Amaryllidaceae and these seed pods look very similar. The seed itself could hardly be more different. Ungernia seed is flat , black and papery like many warm climate Amarayllids, while Lycoris have hard, round, black, pea-size seed. > > We can only hope that Panayoti brought back lots of seeds and will soon be offering photos of a bank of Ungernia in bloom at Denver Botanic Garden. > From mikemace@att.net Tue Nov 16 20:24:55 2010 Message-Id: <003c01cb85f6$3c079510$b416bf30$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Germinating in the mail Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 17:24:52 -0800 Dell wrote: >> Holding the seeds under refrigeration helps slow down germination for awhile. To build on what Dell said, refrigeration of fleshy seeds from the Amaryllidaceae family (list of species here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Amaryllidaceae) can work very nicely. I've used that approach with seeds sent to me from South Africa. They were six months out of season, so I held them in the refrigerator for six months and had good results. The trick is to keep the seeds barely damp so they do not dry out, but not wet, so they do not rot. Here's what works for me: Seal them in a plastic bag, with part of a sheet of paper towel on which you've put a few drops of water. The towel should not be wet all the way through, just slightly damp. Check the bag occasionally for mold. The seeds may start to sprout, but generally they'll just about stop growing. When you plant them, keep in mind that the seeds have been weakened a bit. Plant them with the sprout extending down into the ground, and don't let the seed pot dry out. I've held seeds for six months this way pretty easily, and my latest record was some Nerines that spent a year in refrigeration (because I forgot about them; shame on me). To my surprise, they are in great shape and now growing well. Mike San Jose, CA From ksayce@willapabay.org Tue Nov 16 23:04:14 2010 Message-Id: From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: seeds germinating in packets Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 20:04:06 -0800 I appreciate coming home, opening the newly arrived seed shipment, seeing not one, not two, but three sets of seeds already germinating, going to email to send a message, and finding that several people have already asked the question I was going to ask. Yes, I too received Nerine and Amaryllis seeds that were already sprouting. As soon as I am home during daylight hours, I'll be planting them. Thanks for the rampant geophytic curiousity, Kathleen PNW, zone 8, mostly From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Wed Nov 17 05:44:30 2010 Message-Id: <7021E8AF-0D88-4CD6-AAF7-A3568F150A16@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: germinating in the mail Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 02:44:22 -0800 On Nov 16, 2010, at 1:52 PM, J.E. Shields wrote: > Don't do this with Clivia seeds; they need more moisture to germinate well. > However, if they're in sealed container of some kind, they will do about as well germinating as the other amaryllids that have been mentioned. On a couple of occasions over the years, I've received Clivia seeds from South Africa that were mailed in empty film canisters. (Are those still available??) When they arrived, the had already germinated and the seeds were plump with a nice thick root growing out of the seed. I planted them just like other germinating amaryllids and they grew just fine. I think the small sealed container, although dry, preserved sufficient humidity from the seeds themselves to support germination. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Wed Nov 17 13:25:01 2010 Message-Id: <550923.5661.qm@web86306.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Ferraria growing conditions Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 18:24:57 +0000 (GMT) Can someone advise me on growing Ferraria in the UK? I have 1 pot labelled Ferraria crispa, origin tha AGS 2006, and 2 other pots labelled Ferraria sp. origin PBS 2005. Neither have ever flowered. At present the AGS sourced plants have healthy erect leaves up to 12", the PBS sourced shoots are just emerging. Later both will get 15-18" tall and then tend to flop over if not supported. I grow them in a frost free (min 7C) greenhouse. I wonder if they need more warmth, or maybe more warmth earlier in the season; i.e. do I start them off too late after the summer, when they would get more light? Maybe they just need feeding more.   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 From Chad.Schroter@sandisk.com Wed Nov 17 14:11:33 2010 Message-Id: From: Chad Schroter Subject: Ferraria growing conditions Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 11:00:55 -0800 When I grew these in my unheated greenhouse I had similar results. The next year I planted them out and I got a few blooms, but less than half the corms bloomed. I have also bloomed them in pots outdoors. The gophers seem to leave them alone even though they look tasty. I am in Zone 9 California. I would guess they need more light and or feeding, but mainly I think they like to build up a string of corms before blooming. Chad -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Brian Whyer Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 10:25 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Ferraria growing conditions Can someone advise me on growing Ferraria in the UK? I have 1 pot labelled Ferraria crispa, origin tha AGS 2006, and 2 other pots labelled Ferraria sp. origin PBS 2005. Neither have ever flowered. At present the AGS sourced plants have healthy erect leaves up to 12", the PBS sourced shoots are just emerging. Later both will get 15-18" tall and then tend to flop over if not supported. I grow them in a frost free (min 7C) greenhouse. I wonder if they need more warmth, or maybe more warmth earlier in the season; i.e. do I start them off too late after the summer, when they would get more light? Maybe they just need feeding more. Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 PLEASE NOTE: The information contained in this electronic mail message is intended only for the use of the designated recipient(s) named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this message in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by telephone or e-mail (as shown above) immediately and destroy any and all copies of this message in your possession (whether hard copies or electronically stored copies). From totototo@telus.net Wed Nov 17 14:01:11 2010 Message-Id: <4CE3B5F2.15958.33582E3@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: germinating in the mail Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 11:01:06 -0800 On 17 Nov 2010, at 2:44, Lee Poulsen wrote: > I've received Clivia seeds from South Africa that were mailed in empty film > canisters. (Are those still available??) They still sell 35mm film, though the market has shrunk dramatically, so I would guess that film canisters still exist. There's a good alternative in case we're both hopelessly delusional in this matter: the little canisters that glucometer test strips (used by diabetics) are packaged in. They're much the same as film canisters, but with some kind of desiccant in the lid behind a thin partition. If you squeeze the lid sideways, the lid will buckle so you can remove it and pour out the desiccant. [I'm referring specifically to strips for the "Accu-Chek Compact" made by Roche, but other brands are likely packaged in much the same way.] -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada From CGeat25049@aol.com Wed Nov 17 14:33:01 2010 Message-Id: <22d36.62fe8ffb.3a1587e5@aol.com> From: CGeat25049@aol.com Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 94, Issue 30 re seeds germinating in mail Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 14:32:53 EST Hi Years ago, I had poor luck germinating clivia. Very bad because I paid $2-4 each plus shipping from South Africa. When I complained to Silverhill about the bad seeds they were sending me, it turnd out I had bad sowing advice. Some website had said to sow them in the dark so that's what I was doing. Silverhill corrected my error. I had sowed them two months previously so they were kept moist in a ziplock. I had taken them out to my lanai with the idea of dumping these "bad" seed and had stuck the cell inserts on a shelf for two weeks until I got around to throwing them in the compost heap. Of course they were getting light now. When Silverhill told me what I doing wrong, I rushed out to bring them back inside and lo and behold , the two weeks in the light was a enough to get them started. With all the talk of seeds germinating willy-nilly, I went googling to see what was being said about clivia right now and there is still advice being given about starting them in the dark ! What saved them for the two months was that they were being kept moist. It is suggested that the seeds be refrigerated and I am wondering if that is necessary as long as they are kept moist and in the dark ( when apparently they need light to spout). Cherry G From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Wed Nov 17 14:51:54 2010 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Ferraria growing conditions Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 19:51:50 +0000 Chad and Brian: Feeding is not over important but strong sunshine is. The floppiness is due to insufficient light. And large single corms are capable of producing a large plant with lots of flowers, no need of the "rosary" to form. > > When I grew these in my unheated greenhouse I had similar results. The next year I planted them out and I got a few blooms, but less than half the corms bloomed. I have also bloomed them in pots outdoors. The gophers seem to leave them alone even though they look tasty. I am in Zone 9 California. I would guess they need more light and or feeding, but mainly I think they like to build up a string of corms before blooming. > Can someone advise me on growing Ferraria in the UK? > I have 1 pot labelled Ferraria crispa, origin tha AGS 2006, and 2 other pots labelled Ferraria sp. origin PBS 2005. Neither have ever flowered. At present the AGS sourced plants have healthy erect leaves up to 12", the PBS sourced shoots are just emerging. Later both will get 15-18" tall and then tend to flop over if not supported. I grow them in a frost free (min 7C) greenhouse. > I wonder if they need more warmth, or maybe more warmth earlier in the season; i.e. do I start them off too late after the summer, when they would get more light? Maybe they just need feeding more. From mikemace@att.net Wed Nov 17 16:11:38 2010 Message-Id: <001101cb869c$03ab76e0$0b0264a0$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Ferraria growing conditions Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 13:11:33 -0800 Brian wrote: >> Can someone advise me on growing Ferraria in the UK? Brian, I want to underline what Alberto said -- Ferraria when they're happy are thick-stalked plants that don't flop over. I grow them in California, in 8-inch (20 cm) pots, in an area where the temperature in winter ranges from the 50s-60s during the day (around 15C) down to about 20F at night (about -7C). They don't show any frost damage at that temperature, although they do get leaf burn if the temp drops much below that. So you definitely do not need to keep them warmer than they already are in your frost-free greenhouse. They might even be a bit happier growing in colder conditions. I'm also a little surprised that you have some of them over a foot high already. Mine are just getting started at this time of year (my earliest one, Ferraria densepunctulata, is a few inches tall right now). Of course, the pots are bone dry from May until late October, so there's nothing to trigger growth during the summer. If I had to guess, I'd suggest more light, lower temperatures in the growing season with day-night variation, and keep them as dry as you can in summer. Hope that helps. Mike San Jose CA (zone 9, min temp 20F / -7C) From dkramb@gmail.com Wed Nov 17 17:04:04 2010 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Canna seedling Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 17:04:02 -0500 Ernie, I have a lot of past experience with Nelumbo lutea seeds. I used some pliers and a metal file to prepare them. So I think the Canna flaccida seeds will not pose any major problem for me. :-) Thanks for the feedback, I'll probably sow them this weekend... well, at least some of them. And I will definitely pot up that seedling I lifted a couple weeks ago. I hope it is still alive. Dennis in Cincy From mzukaitis@msn.com Wed Nov 17 18:24:56 2010 Message-Id: From: "mark zukaitis" Subject: Ferraria growing conditions Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 18:27:08 -0500 I don't know much about growing conditions for Ferraria but you reminded me of the time in Key West that I found a patch along someone's walk and I was surprised by the intricate flowers (though they were small in proportion to the plant). It looked like a pretty old planting. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Mace To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Ferraria growing conditions Brian wrote: >> Can someone advise me on growing Ferraria in the UK? Brian, I want to underline what Alberto said -- Ferraria when they're happy are thick-stalked plants that don't flop over. I grow them in California, in 8-inch (20 cm) pots, in an area where the temperature in winter ranges from the 50s-60s during the day (around 15C) down to about 20F at night (about -7C). They don't show any frost damage at that temperature, although they do get leaf burn if the temp drops much below that. So you definitely do not need to keep them warmer than they already are in your frost-free greenhouse. They might even be a bit happier growing in colder conditions. I'm also a little surprised that you have some of them over a foot high already. Mine are just getting started at this time of year (my earliest one, Ferraria densepunctulata, is a few inches tall right now). Of course, the pots are bone dry from May until late October, so there's nothing to trigger growth during the summer. If I had to guess, I'd suggest more light, lower temperatures in the growing season with day-night variation, and keep them as dry as you can in summer. Hope that helps. Mike San Jose CA (zone 9, min temp 20F / -7C) _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From awilson@avonia.com Thu Nov 18 13:30:45 2010 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: ID in an Andean canyon Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 10:36:06 -0800 I've been looking through my files of plants seen when in Argentina a few years ago and, over the past month, have posted messages on the bulbs seen. Here is another: http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewrmw/5186636996/ It was taken in northern Argentina in a deep canyon through which a river flowed. The whole place was humid and on the nearly vertical rock walls grew many plants, notably cacti, begonias, bromeliads and ferns. In this shot the rebutia is R. jajoiana but I do not know what the unusual bulbous bloom is. Small pieces of debris from the canyon walls are noticeable. At first observation I even thought that with the humidity and lichens present it might be a moss ally! But, no, it is not. So, I call upon you experts of those parts to render advice. Andrew Wilson San Diego From bulborum@gmail.com Thu Nov 18 14:04:00 2010 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: ID in an Andean canyon Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:03:56 +0100 As the comment says looks very much an Oxalis sp. but which one just from 2 leaves ?? Roland 2010/11/18 AW > I've been looking through my files of plants seen when in Argentina a few > years ago and, over the past month, have posted messages on the bulbs seen. > Here is another: http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewrmw/5186636996/ > > It was taken in northern Argentina in a deep canyon through which a river > flowed. The whole place was humid and on the nearly vertical rock walls > grew > many plants, notably cacti, begonias, bromeliads and ferns. In this shot > the > rebutia is R. jajoiana but I do not know what the unusual bulbous bloom is. > Small pieces of debris from the canyon walls are noticeable. At first > observation I even thought that with the humidity and lichens present it > might be a moss ally! But, no, it is not. So, I call upon you experts of > those parts to render advice. > > Andrew Wilson > San Diego > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From kimcmich@hotmail.com Thu Nov 18 17:02:00 2010 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: Hello from Berkeley, CA Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 13:56:53 -0800 Greetings, My name is Kipp McMichael and I live in Berkeley, CA (zone 10a). I've been into plants all my life. I grew up in Alabama and my first cultivated bulb experiences were spider lilies (Lycoris), Gladiolus and Crinums. As for true wild bulb species, the wetland Hymenocallis that are common in the South were probably the first native bulbs I ever knew. As a transplant to California's mediterranean climate, I've gravitated toward growing succulents, caudiciforms and, most recently, bulbs. In particular, I've been drawn-in by winter-growing species that provide a wonderful new beginning during a gardening season where most of my other plants are dormant. It's no suprise then that most of my bulbs come from South Africa. I grow Massonia, Daubenya, Boophone, Brunsvigia, Androcymbium, Veltheimia, Lachenalia, Polyxena, Crossyne, Rhadamanthus, Eriospermum and, of course, Haemanthus. I probly have around 200 bulbs from ~45 or so species and/or localities. California is blessed with quite a diverse selection of native winter bulbs as well. I grow Chlorogalum (including an unusual variegated specimen), Dichelostemma, Triteleia, and a few Calochortus. Now that I have recently moved and have a large backyard, I'm starting to increase my collection of California bulbs. I have also begun propagation in earnest and have many 1 & 2 year-old seedlings of from my adult bulbs (mostly Haemanthus and Massonia) as well as 30 or so seedling trays newly sowed with a plethora of South African species (both from my own plants and purchased from Silverhill, Summerfield and others). I would almost say I am more interested in unusual foliage than I am in flowers (the foliage is so much more dependable!). I particularly like species with prostrate leaves, glaucous foliage or frilly margins. Even though winter-growers are my main focus, I also have evergreen and summer-growing Amaryllidaceae, Haemanthus, Boophone, Ledebouria and Resnova. I'm interested in trading seeds, bulbs and knowledge. -| From: pelarg@aol.com Subject: ID in an Andean canyon Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 17:33:34 -0500 (EST) Hi Andrew, That foliage looks an awful lot like Oxalis stipularis, which is a South American species. It grows very freely during summer, multiplies very well, and can sit dry in a pot for winter. One would need to see flowers to confirm the ID, and there are lots of other oxalis in South America, but O. stipularis is definitely a possibility. Ernie DeMarie Tuckahoe NY Z6/7 -----Original Message----- From: AW To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Thu, Nov 18, 2010 1:30 pm Subject: [pbs] ID in an Andean canyon I've been looking through my files of plants seen when in Argentina a few ears ago and, over the past month, have posted messages on the bulbs seen. ere is another: http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewrmw/5186636996/ It was taken in northern Argentina in a deep canyon through which a river lowed. The whole place was humid and on the nearly vertical rock walls grew any plants, notably cacti, begonias, bromeliads and ferns. In this shot the ebutia is R. jajoiana but I do not know what the unusual bulbous bloom is. mall pieces of debris from the canyon walls are noticeable. At first bservation I even thought that with the humidity and lichens present it ight be a moss ally! But, no, it is not. So, I call upon you experts of hose parts to render advice. Andrew Wilson an Diego _______________________________________________ bs mailing list bs@lists.ibiblio.org ttp://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ttp://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From davidxvictor@btinternet.com Fri Nov 19 04:36:13 2010 Message-Id: <599050.97289.qm@smtp822.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: David Victor Subject: Ungernia seed and pictures Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 09:36:02 +0000 Dear all, Following the pieces recently by Jim and Lee, you might all like to know that Kurt Vickery has this year's seed of Ungernia sewerzowii available right now. I had some a week of so ago and its just starting to show roots using the well-known "floating system". You can contact Kurt for his list at: Kurt Vickery I've some photos of the plant in flower that I took on my last visit to Kazakhstan a couple of years ago and I will try to find the time to load them onto the wiki over the week-end. Best regards, David Victor From awilson@avonia.com Fri Nov 19 12:03:43 2010 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: ID in an Andean canyon Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 09:04:11 -0800 Hi Ernie: Well, that makes it three out of three for an Oxalis species. Thanks to all who replied. As a longtime devotee of the genus I am constantly being amazed by its diversity. This species, stipularis as you suggest, or some other, is worth knowing about. The long leaves, like rabbit ears, made a surprising sight near the base of a cliff face among cacti and begonias. Where will Oxalis appear next?! I looked up O. stipulata through GBIF and found that only 6 localities of the species were known, all of them in Mexico, none of them south of there. So, it may be a different species. For now, I'll label it as Oxalis sp. (aff. stipulata). Does your plant have the silvery leaves like this one? From herbarium images shown it was, of course, not possible to tell leaf color. I could not wait around for the plants to bloom. It was springtime there, almost three years ago to the day, in fact. Other plant species were blooming, but not these guys. Andrew Wilson San Diego Hi Andrew, That foliage looks an awful lot like Oxalis stipularis, which is a South American species. It grows very freely during summer, multiplies very well, and can sit dry in a pot for winter. One would need to see flowers to confirm the ID, and there are lots of other oxalis in South America, but O. stipularis is definitely a possibility. Ernie DeMarie Tuckahoe NY Z6/7 From cj5sfo@yahoo.com Fri Nov 19 14:30:45 2010 Message-Id: <797651.44091.qm@web51603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Gregg Subject: ID in an Andean canyon Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 11:30:43 -0800 (PST) Andy and Ernie.   Here is a photo of an Oxalis I photographed in Sept. on an exposed, seasonally dry hillside above a river in Cusco Province, Peru. I had no idea what it was at the time. Each segment is about 7cm long, arising from a thickened semi-geophytic base. A fascinating plant to me. Any ideas on the species? We saw no flowers as it was too early in the season and still very dry- in fact, much higher up wildfires had been burning for over a week and lit up the night sky.   http://www.flickr.com/photos/u4banut/5190383536/ Gregg DeChirico Santa Barbara, California http://www.flickr.com/photos/u4banut/sets/ --- On Fri, 11/19/10, AW wrote: From: AW Subject: Re: [pbs] ID in an Andean canyon To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Date: Friday, November 19, 2010, 9:04 AM Hi Ernie: Well, that makes it three out of three for an Oxalis species. Thanks to all who replied. As a longtime devotee of the genus I am constantly being amazed by its diversity. This species, stipularis as you suggest, or some other, is worth knowing about. The long leaves, like rabbit ears, made a surprising sight near the base of a cliff face among cacti and begonias. Where will Oxalis appear next?! I looked up O. stipulata through GBIF and found that only 6 localities of the species were known, all of them in Mexico, none of them south of there. So, it may be a different species. For now, I'll label it as Oxalis sp. (aff. stipulata). Does your plant have the silvery leaves like this one? From herbarium images shown it was, of course, not possible to tell leaf color. I could not wait around for the plants to bloom. It was springtime there, almost three years ago to the day, in fact. Other plant species were blooming, but not these guys. Andrew Wilson San Diego Hi Andrew, That foliage looks an awful lot like Oxalis stipularis, which is a South American species.  It grows very freely during summer, multiplies very well, and can sit dry in a pot for winter.  One would need to see flowers to confirm the ID, and there are lots of other oxalis in South America, but O. stipularis is definitely a possibility.  Ernie DeMarie Tuckahoe NY Z6/7 From awilson@avonia.com Fri Nov 19 16:32:32 2010 Message-Id: <7206C6CD588949F3BA61ABAF70B21943@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: ID in an Andean canyon Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 13:32:16 -0800 Hi Gregg! That is certainly not an oxalis that I grow! It is conceivable that it is a member of the Oxalis tuberosa alliance or one of the many hybrid oxalids that local people around Cusco eat. Take a look at this paper: "Origins of domestication and polyploidy in oca (Oxalis tuberosa: Oxalidaceae)" 3: AFLP data of oca and four wild, tuber-bearing taxa. Eve Emshwiller, Terra Theim, Alfredo Grau, Victor Nina and Franz Terrazas 2009. American Journal of Botany. 96(10):1839-1848 or, if online: http://wisc.academia.edu/EveEmshwiller/Papers/116970/Origins_of_domesticatio n_and_polyploidy_in_oca_Oxalis_tuberosa_Oxalidaceae_3_AFLP_data_of_oca_and_f our_wild_tuber-bearing_taxa Some of the images of tubers in Fig. 2 in that paper could be consistent with yours. Hybrid plants produce much largers tubers than the original species do. Did you bring any back? Andrew San Diego Andy and Ernie.   Here is a photo of an Oxalis I photographed in Sept. on an exposed, seasonally dry hillside above a river in Cusco Province, Peru. I had no idea what it was at the time. Each segment is about 7cm long, arising from a thickened semi-geophytic base. A fascinating plant to me. Any ideas on the species? We saw no flowers as it was too early in the season and still very dry- in fact, much higher up wildfires had been burning for over a week and lit up the night sky.   http://www.flickr.com/photos/u4banut/5190383536/ Gregg DeChirico Santa Barbara, California http://www.flickr.com/photos/u4banut/sets/ From cj5sfo@yahoo.com Fri Nov 19 18:26:04 2010 Message-Id: <421671.3298.qm@web51608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Gregg Subject: ID in an Andean canyon Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 14:59:22 -0800 (PST) Andrew, That is a very interesting paper. I'm still not sure where my succulent Oxalis falls within the group. I have attached photos of what appears to be Oxalis tuberosa taken about 20 miles or so south of Lima. The Peruvian coastal plain is about the dreariest place I have ever been and these yellow flowers stuck out like little neon lights among shades of gray. I also attached a photo of Oca taken at a farmhouse outside Cajamarca at about 3300 meters elevation. They are as tasty as they are beautiful!   http://www.flickr.com/photos/u4banut/5190800202/   http://www.flickr.com/photos/u4banut/5190202189/   http://www.flickr.com/photos/u4banut/5186036455/ I did not have a permit to collect plants, so I just collected some Tillandsia seed at various places along the way. (Hopeful I should live so long to see them flower!) Gregg DeChirico Santa Barbara, California http://www.flickr.com/photos/u4banut/sets/ --- On Fri, 11/19/10, AW wrote: From: AW Subject: Re: [pbs] ID in an Andean canyon To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Date: Friday, November 19, 2010, 1:32 PM Hi Gregg! That is certainly not an oxalis that I grow! It is conceivable that it is a member of the Oxalis tuberosa alliance or one of the many hybrid oxalids that local people around Cusco eat. Take a look at this paper: "Origins of domestication and polyploidy in oca (Oxalis tuberosa: Oxalidaceae)" 3: AFLP data of oca and four wild, tuber-bearing taxa. Eve Emshwiller, Terra Theim, Alfredo Grau, Victor Nina and Franz Terrazas 2009. American Journal of Botany.  96(10):1839-1848 or, if online: http://wisc.academia.edu/EveEmshwiller/Papers/116970/Origins_of_domesticatio n_and_polyploidy_in_oca_Oxalis_tuberosa_Oxalidaceae_3_AFLP_data_of_oca_and_f our_wild_tuber-bearing_taxa Some of the images of tubers in Fig. 2 in that paper could be consistent with yours. Hybrid plants produce much largers tubers than the original species do. Did you bring any back? Andrew San Diego Andy and Ernie.   Here is a photo of an Oxalis I photographed in Sept. on an exposed, seasonally dry hillside above a river in Cusco Province, Peru. I had no idea what it was at the time. Each segment is about 7cm long, arising from a thickened semi-geophytic base. A fascinating plant to me. Any ideas on the species? We saw no flowers as it was too early in the season and still very dry- in fact, much higher up wildfires had been burning for over a week and lit up the night sky.   http://www.flickr.com/photos/u4banut/5190383536/ Gregg DeChirico Santa Barbara, California http://www.flickr.com/photos/u4banut/sets/ From awilson@avonia.com Fri Nov 19 19:25:00 2010 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: ID in an Andean canyon Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:25:30 -0800 Well, then perhaps we should try to grow them here. A new market. The second coming of the potato and the tomato! On Tillandsia, was the seed from the coastal or mountain areas. T. palacea is a nice one to grow but T. latifolia is big. Andrew San Diego Andrew, That is a very interesting paper. I'm still not sure where my succulent Oxalis falls within the group. I have attached photos of what appears to be Oxalis tuberosa taken about 20 miles or so south of Lima. The Peruvian coastal plain is about the dreariest place I have ever been and these yellow flowers stuck out like little neon lights among shades of gray. I also attached a photo of Oca taken at a farmhouse outside Cajamarca at about 3300 meters elevation. They are as tasty as they are beautiful!   http://www.flickr.com/photos/u4banut/5190800202/   http://www.flickr.com/photos/u4banut/5190202189/   http://www.flickr.com/photos/u4banut/5186036455/ I did not have a permit to collect plants, so I just collected some Tillandsia seed at various places along the way. (Hopeful I should live so long to see them flower!) Gregg DeChirico Santa Barbara, California http://www.flickr.com/photos/u4banut/sets/ From plantnutga@gmail.com Sat Nov 20 07:16:06 2010 Message-Id: From: Erin Grace Subject: Hello from Berkeley, CA Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 07:16:03 -0500 Welcome, Kipp You have come to the right place, especially for trading knowledge! Erin Grace Thomasville, GA From paige@hillkeep.ca Sat Nov 20 18:00:20 2010 Message-Id: <69150506E0194F0DBC1643FCF741092C@m6u3j5> From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: Flora of Brazil online Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 15:00:05 -0800 Forwarded from Taxacom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alina Freire-Fierro" To: ; Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 1:49 PM Subject: [Taxacom] FYI: Flora of Brasil online (Sorry for the cross-postings) Dear all, I have recently learned that the list of flowering plants and fungi from Brasil is available online at: http://floradobrasil.jbrj.gov.br/2010/ The organizing committee (see webpage) is: Rafaela Campostrini Forzza (JBRJ, Coordenação Geral); Paula Moraes Leitman (JBRJ, Assistente); Andrea Costa (Museu Nacional); Aníbal Alves de Carvalho Jr. (JBRJ); Ariane Luna Peixoto (JBRJ); Bruno Machado Teles Walter (CENARGEN); Carlos Bicudo (IBt-SP); Daniela Zappi (KEW); Denise Pinheiro da Costa (JBRJ); Eduardo Lleras (CENARGEN); Gustavo Martinelli (JBRJ); Haroldo Cavalcante de Lima (JBRJ); Jefferson Prado (IBt-SP); João Renato Stehmann (UFMG); José Fernando A. Baumgratz (JBRJ); José Rubens Pirani (USP); Lana da Silva Sylvestre (UFRRJ); Leonor Costa Maia (UFPE); Lucia G. Lohmann (USP); Luciano Paganucci (UEFS); Marcos Silveira (UFAC); Marcus Nadruz (JBRJ); Maria Cândida Henrique Mamede (IBt-SP); Maria Nazaré C. Bastos (Museu Goeldi); Marli Pires Morim (JBRJ); Maria Regina Barbosa (UFPB); Mariângela Menezes (Museu Nacional); Mike Hopkins (INPA); Ricardo Secco (Museu Goeldi); Taciana Cavalcanti (CENARGEN); Vinícius de Castro Souza (ESALQ/USP). Best, Alina. ******** Alina Freire-Fierro (herbarium@ansp.org; freirefierro@ansp.org); Collection Manager; PH Herbarium, Botany Dept.; Academy of Natural Sciences; 19th and Parkway; Philadelphia, PA 19103, U.S.A.; www.ansp.org; 215-299-1157 *** Please do not print this message unless it is strictly necessary*** _______________________________________________ Taxacom Mailing List Taxacom@mailman.nhm.ku.edu http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom The Taxacom archive going back to 1992 may be searched with either of these methods: (1) http://taxacom.markmail.org Or (2) a Google search specified as: site:mailman.nhm.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom your search terms here From klazina1@gmail.com Sun Nov 21 18:51:47 2010 Message-Id: <4CE9B093.2080707@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: which Gladiolus is this? Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 12:51:47 +1300 Which Gladiolus is this? I was given the bulbs by a friend. It looks like a species one to me, but I don't know. Ina Crossley Auckland, New Zealand, where it is a beautiful sunny day, after a day of rain, so perfect for the garden. From klazina1@gmail.com Sun Nov 21 18:52:13 2010 Message-Id: <4CE9B0AD.4070904@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: which Gladiolus is this? Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 12:52:13 +1300 Which Gladiolus is this? I was given the bulbs by a friend. It looks like a species one to me, but I don't know. I've done it again, here is the link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/plantlover/5196144587/ Ina Crossley Auckland, New Zealand, where it is a beautiful sunny day, after a day of rain, so perfect for the garden. From ds429@comcast.net Mon Nov 22 07:25:37 2010 Message-Id: <000001cb8a40$63608100$2a218300$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 261 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 07:25:45 -0500 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 261" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact me for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Charles Hardman (SEED): 1. Ixia polystachya 2. Ixia maculata 3. Bulbine cauda-felis 4. Calceolaria sp., small yellow 5. Gladiolus communis var byzantinus 6. Calochortus 'Golden Orb' 7. Tecophilaea cyanocrocus var 'Leichtlinii' 8. Gladiolus scullyi 9. Syringodea sp. 10. Narcissus papyraceus 11. Lachenalia arbuthnotii 12. Hesperantha cucullata 13. Romulea diversiformis 14. Romulea multisulcata 15. Lilium 'Golden Dragon' 16. Lilium regale 17. Sparaxis, mixed colors 18. Veltheimia capensis 19. Veltheimia bracteata 20. Veltheimia bracteata, pink 21. Veltheimia bracteata, rose 22. Veltheimia bracteata, 'Rosella?' From Kathleen Sayce (SEED): 23. Dierama pulcherrima 24. Brodiaea 'Queen Fabiola' Thank you, Charles and Kathleen !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From msittner@mcn.org Mon Nov 22 11:30:24 2010 Message-Id: <20101122163023.B118A4C084@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: PBS Wiki Statistics Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 08:29:35 -0800 Hi, PmWiki which is the wiki software we are currently using has many recipes you can add to create new features. We have tried to keep our wiki simple so haven't added a lot of them although from time to time David Pilling has found ones that we think are useful and installed them. A little more than a week ago he added a recipe that allows us to look at how many times each page is accessed. In a little over a week there have been 42,664 page views at my last look. I believe this justifies all of the time that has been put into creating the pbs wiki. Our previous wiki kept track of how many hits each page got and we had a Most Popular page so you could see which pages were viewed the most often. Although this might seem to be a way of determining which bulb was most popular, since a lot of the people who viewed the wiki are referred by a Google search engine, the more unusual bulbs would have less competition for pages to find information so could get more hits. In addition we have split up a lot of the pages that we have a lot of pictures of so each page won't take so long to load and sometimes adding a hybrid page to distinguish from the species page, so have multiple pages for : Albuca, Allium, Alstroemeria, Amaryllis, Arisaema, Babiana, Brodiaea, Calochortus, Colchicum, Crinum, Crocus, Cyclamen, Cyrtanthus, Delphinium, Drimia, Erythronium, Favorite Blue Bulbs, Favorite Orange Bulbs, Favorite Pink Bulbs, Favorite White Bulbs, Favorite Yellow Bulbs, Fritillaria, Geissorhiza, Gladiolus, Haemanthus, Hesperantha, Hippeastrum, Homeria, Hymenocallis, Iris, Ismene, Ixia, Lachenalia, Legacy Bulbs, Lilium, Mendocino Sonoma Coast, Moraea, Narcissus, Namaqualand, Nerine, Ornithogalum, Oxalis, Pelargonium, Roggeveld, Romulea, Sparaxis, Tigridia, TOW (Topic of the Week), Trillium, Triteleia, Tritonia, Tulipa, Watsonia, Zephyranthes For some of these we may have just one or two extra pages and for others we have a lot of pages. Allium, Arisaema, Calochortus, Crinum, Crocus, Fritillaria, Gladiolus, Iris, Lilium, Narcissus are a few of the ones with many pages. So to measure their popularity you'd have to add up all the hits for all the pages. When we changed to the new wiki I saved the most popular page from the old wiki. The thirty pages with the most hits in the old wiki in order were: HomePage MostPopular PhotographsAndInformation Iris Nothoscordum Lilium TitleSearch RecentChanges Hippeastrum HardinessZoneMaps Alstroemeria Crocus Zephyranthes BeardlessIrises Curcuma Tigridia Freesia Amaryllis MendocinoCoastBotanicalGardens Oxalis UploadFile Nerine NarcissusHybrids Hymenocallis Ornithogalum Scilla Crinum Tulipa SouthAfricanOxalis Begonia Alocasia If you are interested in seeing the 30 pages that were viewed the most in the past week you can add to any wiki page: ?action=totalcounter It will also tell you the pages viewed that day and the referral sources and a number of other things. You can expand beyond 30 by adding the number you want to see to this &TotalCounterMaxItems= For example: will allow you to see a count for the hits for 500 wiki pages (if that many have had hits) since David added the counter. You can see if the same things are still the most popular (and many of them are). This recipe seems to self destruct over time so we don't know how long it will last, but in the meantime I am finding it very interesting. We hope it will encourage some of you who are just adding photos to your own websites to learn how to use the wiki and help us fill in our missing gaps and make this an even better resource. Mary Sue From adam14113@ameritech.net Mon Nov 22 12:09:41 2010 Message-Id: <22024F6963E440D99CA8FF2E3DD9BC40@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: PBS Wiki Statistics Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 11:09:44 -0600 I'm terribly impressed. Your skills are not only way beyond me but you continue to improve on them to our benefit.Thanks for all that you do. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Sue Ittner" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 10:29 AM Subject: [pbs] PBS Wiki Statistics > Hi, > > PmWiki which is the wiki software we are currently using has many recipes > you can add to create new features. We have tried to keep our wiki simple > so haven't added a lot of them although from time to time David Pilling > has found ones that we think are useful and installed them. A little more > than a week ago he added a recipe that allows us to look at how many times > each page is accessed. In a little over a week there have been 42,664 page > views at my last look. I believe this justifies all of the time that has > been put into creating the pbs wiki. > > Our previous wiki kept track of how many hits each page got and we had a > Most Popular page so you could see which pages were viewed the most often. > Although this might seem to be a way of determining which bulb was most > popular, since a lot of the people who viewed the wiki are referred by a > Google search engine, the more unusual bulbs would have less competition > for pages to find information so could get more hits. In addition we have > split up a lot of the pages that we have a lot of pictures of so each page > won't take so long to load and sometimes adding a hybrid page to > distinguish from the species page, so have multiple pages for : > Albuca, Allium, Alstroemeria, Amaryllis, Arisaema, Babiana, Brodiaea, > Calochortus, Colchicum, Crinum, Crocus, Cyclamen, Cyrtanthus, Delphinium, > Drimia, Erythronium, Favorite Blue Bulbs, Favorite Orange Bulbs, Favorite > Pink Bulbs, Favorite White Bulbs, Favorite Yellow Bulbs, Fritillaria, > Geissorhiza, Gladiolus, Haemanthus, Hesperantha, Hippeastrum, Homeria, > Hymenocallis, Iris, Ismene, Ixia, Lachenalia, Legacy Bulbs, Lilium, > Mendocino Sonoma Coast, Moraea, Narcissus, Namaqualand, Nerine, > Ornithogalum, Oxalis, Pelargonium, Roggeveld, Romulea, Sparaxis, Tigridia, > TOW (Topic of the Week), Trillium, Triteleia, Tritonia, Tulipa, Watsonia, > Zephyranthes > > For some of these we may have just one or two extra pages and for others > we have a lot of pages. Allium, Arisaema, Calochortus, Crinum, Crocus, > Fritillaria, Gladiolus, Iris, Lilium, Narcissus are a few of the ones with > many pages. So to measure their popularity you'd have to add up all the > hits for all the pages. > > When we changed to the new wiki I saved the most popular page from the old > wiki. The thirty pages with the most hits in the old wiki in order were: > HomePage > MostPopular > PhotographsAndInformation > Iris > Nothoscordum > Lilium > TitleSearch > RecentChanges > Hippeastrum > HardinessZoneMaps > Alstroemeria > Crocus > Zephyranthes > BeardlessIrises > Curcuma > Tigridia > Freesia > Amaryllis > MendocinoCoastBotanicalGardens > Oxalis > UploadFile > Nerine > NarcissusHybrids > Hymenocallis > Ornithogalum > Scilla > Crinum > Tulipa > SouthAfricanOxalis > Begonia > Alocasia > > If you are interested in seeing the 30 pages that were viewed the most in > the past week you can add to any wiki page: > ?action=totalcounter > It will also tell you the pages viewed that day and the referral sources > and a number of other things. You can expand beyond 30 by adding the > number you want to see to this &TotalCounterMaxItems= > For example: > > will allow you to see a count for the hits for 500 wiki pages (if that > many have had hits) since David added the counter. You can see if the same > things are still the most popular (and many of them are). > > This recipe seems to self destruct over time so we don't know how long it > will last, but in the meantime I am finding it very interesting. We hope > it will encourage some of you who are just adding photos to your own > websites to learn how to use the wiki and help us fill in our missing gaps > and make this an even better resource. > > Mary Sue > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kimcmich@hotmail.com Mon Nov 22 13:40:03 2010 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: PBS Wiki Statistics Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 10:39:59 -0800 Greetings, I looked over the stats and wondered if the section titles "LastDay" is showing hits by hour. The spikes at 11pm/midnight and the spike at noon makes me think a significant part of the measured traffic may be automated web crawling software. The operating system and referrer stats also show big numbers for "unknown." That makes me think somewhere between 1/2 and 1/3 of the hits measured are not people but software. 20K hits a week is still significant - but it does look like alot of the "pure" hits are non-human (which is pretty standard for websites generally). -| Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 08:29:35 -0800 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > From: msittner@mcn.org > Subject: [pbs] PBS Wiki Statistics > > Hi, > > PmWiki which is the wiki software we are currently using has many > recipes you can add to create new features. We have tried to keep our > wiki simple so haven't added a lot of them although from time to time > David Pilling has found ones that we think are useful and installed > them. A little more than a week ago he added a recipe that allows us > to look at how many times each page is accessed. In a little over a > week there have been 42,664 page views at my last look. I believe > this justifies all of the time that has been put into creating the pbs wiki. > > Our previous wiki kept track of how many hits each page got and we > had a Most Popular page so you could see which pages were viewed the > most often. Although this might seem to be a way of determining which > bulb was most popular, since a lot of the people who viewed the wiki > are referred by a Google search engine, the more unusual bulbs would > have less competition for pages to find information so could get more > hits. In addition we have split up a lot of the pages that we have a > lot of pictures of so each page won't take so long to load and > sometimes adding a hybrid page to distinguish from the species page, > so have multiple pages for : > Albuca, Allium, Alstroemeria, Amaryllis, Arisaema, Babiana, Brodiaea, > Calochortus, Colchicum, Crinum, Crocus, Cyclamen, Cyrtanthus, > Delphinium, Drimia, Erythronium, Favorite Blue Bulbs, Favorite > Orange Bulbs, Favorite Pink Bulbs, Favorite White Bulbs, Favorite > Yellow Bulbs, Fritillaria, Geissorhiza, Gladiolus, Haemanthus, > Hesperantha, Hippeastrum, Homeria, Hymenocallis, Iris, Ismene, Ixia, > Lachenalia, Legacy Bulbs, Lilium, Mendocino Sonoma Coast, Moraea, > Narcissus, Namaqualand, Nerine, Ornithogalum, Oxalis, Pelargonium, > Roggeveld, Romulea, Sparaxis, Tigridia, TOW (Topic of the Week), > Trillium, Triteleia, Tritonia, Tulipa, Watsonia, Zephyranthes > > For some of these we may have just one or two extra pages and for > others we have a lot of pages. Allium, Arisaema, Calochortus, Crinum, > Crocus, Fritillaria, Gladiolus, Iris, Lilium, Narcissus are a few of > the ones with many pages. So to measure their popularity you'd have > to add up all the hits for all the pages. > > When we changed to the new wiki I saved the most popular page from > the old wiki. The thirty pages with the most hits in the old wiki in > order were: > HomePage > MostPopular > PhotographsAndInformation > Iris > Nothoscordum > Lilium > TitleSearch > RecentChanges > Hippeastrum > HardinessZoneMaps > Alstroemeria > Crocus > Zephyranthes > BeardlessIrises > Curcuma > Tigridia > Freesia > Amaryllis > MendocinoCoastBotanicalGardens > Oxalis > UploadFile > Nerine > NarcissusHybrids > Hymenocallis > Ornithogalum > Scilla > Crinum > Tulipa > SouthAfricanOxalis > Begonia > Alocasia > > If you are interested in seeing the 30 pages that were viewed the > most in the past week you can add to any wiki page: > ?action=totalcounter > It will also tell you the pages viewed that day and the referral > sources and a number of other things. You can expand beyond 30 by > adding the number you want to see to this &TotalCounterMaxItems= > For example: > > will allow you to see a count for the hits for 500 wiki pages (if > that many have had hits) since David added the counter. You can see > if the same things are still the most popular (and many of them are). > > This recipe seems to self destruct over time so we don't know how > long it will last, but in the meantime I am finding it very > interesting. We hope it will encourage some of you who are just > adding photos to your own websites to learn how to use the wiki and > help us fill in our missing gaps and make this an even better resource. > > Mary Sue > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 22 16:22:59 2010 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: PBS Wiki Statistics Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 21:21:41 +0000 Hi, In message , Kipp McMichael writes > I looked over the stats and wondered if the section titles "LastDay" >is showing hits by hour. I think so. > The spikes at 11pm/midnight and the spike at noon makes me think a >significant part of the measured traffic may be automated web crawling >software. There's a section on the statistics page "web bots" which shows hits from search engine crawlers - doing the arithmetic 15% of the total. 6000 out of 40,000. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton-Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From kimcmich@hotmail.com Mon Nov 22 16:50:29 2010 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: PBS Wiki Statistics Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 13:50:27 -0800 Greetings, The "web bots" section only counts bots that are honest enough to identify themselves as such - which is why the list of bots is short and confined to popular search engines. The web is thick with nefarious web bots that exist mainly to collect emails for spamming or to insert blog and comment spam into unprotected sites. The high count of "unknown" operating systems (30%) and "unknown" referers (40%) would suggest that more than 15% of the traffic is from web bots. This is useful to know when/if the society decides to allow more access to the editing and posting features of the wiki. Either way, the wiki is getting decent traffic for a noncommercial enterprise. -| Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 21:21:41 +0000 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > From: pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk > Subject: Re: [pbs] PBS Wiki Statistics > > Hi, > > In message , Kipp McMichael > writes > > > I looked over the stats and wondered if the section titles "LastDay" > >is showing hits by hour. > > I think so. > > > The spikes at 11pm/midnight and the spike at noon makes me think a > >significant part of the measured traffic may be automated web crawling > >software. > > There's a section on the statistics page "web bots" which shows hits > from search engine crawlers - doing the arithmetic 15% of the total. > 6000 out of 40,000. > > > > -- > David Pilling > email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk > web: http://www.davidpilling.net > post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton-Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK > fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ksayce@willapabay.org Mon Nov 22 23:03:10 2010 Message-Id: From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: Polyxena longituba Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 20:02:57 -0800 Greetings from the chilly Pacific Northwest. I'd like to know what hardiness conditions others have experienced for Polyxena longituba. My seedlings are less than a year old, so I am unwilling to lose them to cold while they are growing in pots. I wonder if they will need to spend their lives with me in pots so that they can be protected any time temps drop below 30F. Thanks, Kathleen From awilson@avonia.com Tue Nov 23 01:02:15 2010 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: Weedy oxalis Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 22:02:50 -0800 A few, but only a few, oxalis species are known to be weedy. Avoid them and you need not worry. I bring this up because one of these species is described in the wiki without any mention of its potential weediness. That species is O. convexula. A delightful plant in flower, it is grown in Northern California, from where I have so far heard no reports of a weedy character. In San Diego, it simply should not be grown. It produces, below the flowerheads, masses of seed, or really bulbils that are excact clones of the plant. Those tiny bulbils spring into life when they fall on the ground. Their small size allows them to be washed around by rain, assisting spreading very quickly. The question I have is 'are there oxalis growers out there who have had problems with O. convexula'? Mary Sue says she has not heard of any in northern California, or elsewhere. But, does it behave as mine does further south, in Los Angeles, for instance? It's important that we know the weedy species and avoid them. There are so many gorgeous species that never cause problems and are more likely to be eaten by rodents, that it would be wrong to label the genus as 'not to be grown'. I'd like the input so that proper guidance is included in the wiki about those we should avoid and in which areas we should avoid them. Thanks Andrew Wilson San Diego From contact@bulbargence.com Tue Nov 23 02:51:37 2010 Message-Id: From: "contact" Subject: Weedy oxalis Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 08:51:34 +0100 Hello Andrew, I very much second your plea for the Oxalis genus. There are many well behaved and decorative species to be recommended. Only a few spoil the image of the genus. Of course everbody knows and fears O. pes caprae (the 'plena' form is not at all invasive). I would like to add a warning the O. caprina is an dangerous and invasive species (small pale bleu flowers in autumn). I have to spend a lot of time getting it ouof the nursery. The O obtusa forms are lightly invasive, but controllable. I recommend this species to be grown in pots only. For our Oxalis species see www.bulbargence.com/m_catalogue/index.php Greeetings from the south of France. Laauw de Jager Bulb'Argence -----Original Message----- I'd like the input so that proper guidance is included in the wiki about those we should avoid and in which areas we should avoid them. Thanks From bulborum@gmail.com Tue Nov 23 02:52:42 2010 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Weedy oxalis Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 08:52:41 +0100 One of the highly invasive ones is Oxalis pes-caprae the whole Mediterranean near the coast is covered with this weed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxalis_pes-caprae Roland 2010/11/23 AW : > A few, but only a few, oxalis species are known to be weedy. Avoid them and R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From totototo@telus.net Tue Nov 23 15:56:07 2010 Message-Id: <4CEBB9E4.22248.A19D58F@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Weedy oxalis Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 12:56:04 -0800 One difficulty is that a species that is weedy in one place may be perfectly well behaved in another. Andrew Wilson mentioned O. convexula, which gives us a good example of this phenomenon: evidently well behaved at Mary Sue's in northern California, apparently a thug of the first water in San Diego. If our wiki is to include information on weediness, it would be even more helpful if instances of weediness were accompanied with specifics of location; the name of the city would usually be enough. Indeed, location is all-important in determining whether a plant will thrive or not. Plants which are dead easy in, say, the eastern US not uncommonly turn out to be invalids in the PacNW, and vice versa. The annual variation in temperature and precipitation are perhaps the primary factors, but by no means the only one. Soil pH (or perhaps the concentration of free Ca++ ions in the soil) is another important factor. All the more reason, everyone, to remember to include your location in your .sig block -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada From Santoury@aol.com Tue Nov 23 17:12:21 2010 Message-Id: <8CD597298975D11-1730-1F13@webmail-m097.sysops.aol.com> From: santoury@aol.com Subject: BX ? Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 17:12:05 -0500 Hello I've just went through ALL the archived BX's, and am at a loss. I have one box that I opened, but didn't keep the pink tag of. All I know is that NUMBER FOUR is a NEOMARICA. None of the BX's that I can find, list a #4 Neomarica (No, I didn't mix the tag up.) If somebody can help me do some detective work on this, and figure out which BX this is, it'd be greatly appreciated. Best, Jude -----Original Message----- From: David Pilling To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:47 am Subject: Re: [pbs] BX 258 ? In message <8CD4DC24129E00C-1868-261BE@webmail-stg-d15.sysops.aol.com>, santoury@aol.com writes >Would somebody please forward me the list for 258? >I need help figuring out what I got. All PBS list postings are archived on the web. You can see them from: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php and in particular BX 258 is at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2010-November/039167.html -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton-Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From msittner@mcn.org Tue Nov 23 20:12:43 2010 Message-Id: <20101124011242.E25984C01D@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Weedy oxalis Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 17:10:58 -0800 Rodger's advice is very good. It really does depend on where you live. But I do think having a note on the wiki of what can be a problem in certain climates is very helpful. I'm very fond of Oxalis convexula which has succulent leaves and is very dainty, but don't usually have any to share with the BX and it certainly isn't weedy for me like it is for Andrew. But when I've had Oxalis make small babies like Andrew described, I've tossed them quickly. Oxalis obtusa shows up in a lot of my pots, but hasn't returned in the few experiments I made of growing it in the ground even though Lauw suggests doing this would not be a good idea. I don't know why it didn't do well in the ground when it can be pest in pots, but I have found that not every South African winter rainfall bulb does well growing in my garden. Some only survive in pots. alas. Oxalis purpurea which Diana Chapman once suggested would make a nice lawn is one in my Northern California garden that once planted out is difficult to get rid of. But I imagine in colder climates it might not return. And a friend who works in a garden setting said it depended on the variety whether of not it did too well in the ground. Oxalis pes-caprae is a menace in the wild where I live and in many other parts of the world, but probably not everywhere. The legacy bulb pages on the wiki list plants that Kathleen Sayce found in her research had naturalized. Puttting all that information on the wiki took me many months and I didn't transfer the information she found to the genus wiki pages for the species she found as I didn't have time. That job is open for anyone who wants to volunteer to do it. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From awilson@avonia.com Tue Nov 23 20:41:00 2010 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: Weedy oxalis Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 17:41:26 -0800 Thanks to Rodger, also Roland and Laauw for your respective comments. I quite agree with them. However, what I really wanted in posting the message was the noted behavior of just one species, Oxalis convexula. Do you, or anyone out there who grows it , know if it behaves as a weed in your area? It does in mine. I'd like to make an insertion in the Wiki on this behavior as general as possible. Maybe San Diego is the only place where this behavior is seen. Frankly, I think not because, in his original notes, Michael Vassar indicated that there was tendency for it to form crown-based bulbils. Perhaps he based his observations only on where he grew it, just north of Los Angeles. Thanks Andrew Wilson San Diego One difficulty is that a species that is weedy in one place may be perfectly well behaved in another. Andrew Wilson mentioned O. convexula, which gives us a good example of this phenomenon: evidently well behaved at Mary Sue's in northern California, apparently a thug of the first water in San Diego. If our wiki is to include information on weediness, it would be even more helpful if instances of weediness were accompanied with specifics of location; the name of the city would usually be enough. Indeed, location is all-important in determining whether a plant will thrive or not. Plants which are dead easy in, say, the eastern US not uncommonly turn out to be invalids in the PacNW, and vice versa. The annual variation in temperature and precipitation are perhaps the primary factors, but by no means the only one. Soil pH (or perhaps the concentration of free Ca++ ions in the soil) is another important factor. All the more reason, everyone, to remember to include your location in your .sig block Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada From awilson@avonia.com Tue Nov 23 20:50:12 2010 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: Weedy oxalis Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 17:50:42 -0800 Wow, that was close timing, Mary Sue! You mentioned, I note, legacy bulb pages in thw wiki. Can you point me to those pages as I did not see them under Oxalis or contained within other collections. Amdrew San Diego Rodger's advice is very good. It really does depend on where you live. But I do think having a note on the wiki of what can be a problem in certain climates is very helpful. I'm very fond of Oxalis convexula which has succulent leaves and is very dainty, but don't usually have any to share with the BX and it certainly isn't weedy for me like it is for Andrew. But when I've had Oxalis make small babies like Andrew described, I've tossed them quickly. Oxalis obtusa shows up in a lot of my pots, but hasn't returned in the few experiments I made of growing it in the ground even though Lauw suggests doing this would not be a good idea. I don't know why it didn't do well in the ground when it can be pest in pots, but I have found that not every South African winter rainfall bulb does well growing in my garden. Some only survive in pots. alas. Oxalis purpurea which Diana Chapman once suggested would make a nice lawn is one in my Northern California garden that once planted out is difficult to get rid of. But I imagine in colder climates it might not return. And a friend who works in a garden setting said it depended on the variety whether of not it did too well in the ground. Oxalis pes-caprae is a menace in the wild where I live and in many other parts of the world, but probably not everywhere. The legacy bulb pages on the wiki list plants that Kathleen Sayce found in her research had naturalized. Puttting all that information on the wiki took me many months and I didn't transfer the information she found to the genus wiki pages for the species she found as I didn't have time. That job is open for anyone who wants to volunteer to do it. Mary Sue From zigur@hotmail.com Tue Nov 23 21:55:09 2010 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: Weedy oxalis Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 18:55:08 -0800 I grow Oxalis convexula just north of Los Angeles in Thousand Oaks. I have had it in the ground for 7-8 years and it is definitely not invasive. I have to save bulbils in the spring and plant in fall if I wish to propagate this species. I believe they do not survive the heat of summer. Certain species of Ferraria and Cyanella are much more of a problem here. T From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Nov 23 23:39:01 2010 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Weedy bulbous plants Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:17:47 -0600 Dear Friends, Perhaps I am needlessly paranoid about the 'Invasive Plant Police', but I do not think it is the purpose of this forum or the wiki to add injury to this white list/ black list endeavor. I am convinced that almost any plant can be exuberant, weedy, over active, whatever, given the right conditions*, but any (and I do mean any) stamp of 'INVASIVE" on the wiki will merely serve as further proof of the need for prohibition and denial of the right to grow this plant in every other part of the country. By keeping invasive comments into the body of 'conversations' on individual messages, we do not give a PBS stamp to this situation. On the email list individuals can share experiences without tagging a plant over the entire course of its cultivation. I just suggest we be extremely careful before we start tagging any item on the wiki as "Invasive' and so approved by PBS. Is this too extreme to suggest? Just think about what this means and its repercussions. Best Jim W. * For example, I was recently shocked to hear from Ina in New Zealand what an "invasive weed" Lapageria rosea had become for her. Surely there are extremely few people who would want to see this blacklisted from growing in the US because it has invasive tendencies in N. Z. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From awilson@avonia.com Tue Nov 23 23:06:53 2010 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: Weedy oxalis Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 20:07:26 -0800 Thanks, Tim. That's the sort of info I need. It's fascinating that only a bit over a hundred miles makes such a difference. We are probably cooler than your area in summer and they survive just great. So, the difference then is not that yours do not produce bulbils, but that the bulbils do not survive your summers. Here they produce copious quantities of bulbils, hundreds per plant, and they appear to take life either in spring or, in greater numbers, sit quietly all summer and then take of in carpets once the first rain arrives. I have found the best way to eliminate them is to use a blowtorch to incinerate the bulbils. Well, we have at least got somewhere. It sounds like distance from the coast makes the difference. If anyone else has input please add! Andrew San Diego I grow Oxalis convexula just north of Los Angeles in Thousand Oaks. I have had it in the ground for 7-8 years and it is definitely not invasive. I have to save bulbils in the spring and plant in fall if I wish to propagate this species. I believe they do not survive the heat of summer. Certain species of Ferraria and Cyanella are much more of a problem here. T From Santoury@aol.com Tue Nov 23 23:28:58 2010 Message-Id: <8CD59A72ADC5A53-1730-65A7@webmail-m097.sysops.aol.com> From: santoury@aol.com Subject: Weedy oxalis Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 23:28:24 -0500 I think it's time I chimed in - I now have Oxalis semiloba, and O. lassiandra, and am curious about getting others for my "new" Oxalis collection. Anyone feel like swapping some of your Oxalis, weedy or not? (Only known species, please.) -----Original Message----- From: AW To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Sent: Tue, Nov 23, 2010 11:07 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] Weedy oxalis Thanks, Tim. That's the sort of info I need. It's fascinating that only a bit over a hundred miles makes such a difference. We are probably cooler than your area in summer and they survive just great. So, the difference then is not that yours do not produce bulbils, but that the bulbils do not survive your summers. Here they produce copious quantities of bulbils, hundreds per plant, and they appear to take life either in spring or, in greater numbers, sit quietly all summer and then take of in carpets once the first rain arrives. I have found the best way to eliminate them is to use a blowtorch to incinerate the bulbils. Well, we have at least got somewhere. It sounds like distance from the coast makes the difference. If anyone else has input please add! Andrew San Diego I grow Oxalis convexula just north of Los Angeles in Thousand Oaks. I have had it in the ground for 7-8 years and it is definitely not invasive. I have to save bulbils in the spring and plant in fall if I wish to propagate this species. I believe they do not survive the heat of summer. Certain species of Ferraria and Cyanella are much more of a problem here. T From awilson@avonia.com Wed Nov 24 00:19:40 2010 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: Weedy bulbous plants Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:20:17 -0800 Dear James, Your point is taken. Any plant found to be weedy should have its region of weediness circumscribed, precisely what we have been attempting to do with one species here. A broader declaration is valueless, or worse, misleading. In other words, we should not say 'invasive' or 'weedy' etc, but we could say 'invasive in the region...' Standing back, if we do not provide warning where it is necessitated, to people who have not attempted growing some bulb, then we have failed in our responsibility. Andrew Wilson San Diego Dear Friends, Perhaps I am needlessly paranoid about the 'Invasive Plant Police', but I do not think it is the purpose of this forum or the wiki to add injury to this white list/ black list endeavor. I am convinced that almost any plant can be exuberant, weedy, over active, whatever, given the right conditions*, but any (and I do mean any) stamp of 'INVASIVE" on the wiki will merely serve as further proof of the need for prohibition and denial of the right to grow this plant in every other part of the country. By keeping invasive comments into the body of 'conversations' on individual messages, we do not give a PBS stamp to this situation. On the email list individuals can share experiences without tagging a plant over the entire course of its cultivation. I just suggest we be extremely careful before we start tagging any item on the wiki as "Invasive' and so approved by PBS. Is this too extreme to suggest? Just think about what this means and its repercussions. Best Jim W. * For example, I was recently shocked to hear from Ina in New Zealand what an "invasive weed" Lapageria rosea had become for her. Surely there are extremely few people who would want to see this blacklisted from growing in the US because it has invasive tendencies in N. Z. -- Dr. James W. Waddick From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Nov 24 01:09:36 2010 Message-Id: <7C2BD0FD-B27E-491E-B179-232B218BC753@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Weedy bulbous plants Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 22:09:33 -0800 I think the term "invasive" has been used too freely recently. It suggests that a plant will invade an intact, pristine wild area. Occasionally this happens naturally, as when birds eat the berries we used to be advised to plant for them, and excrete the seeds as they perch on a branch. Or the seeds of a water iris float away. However, too many times I have seen the results of someone trundling a wheelbarrow full of plants they have just dug out of their garden and dumping them down the road in that patch of woods. And it's the plants that get the blame if they don't rot down into compost, but carry on growing. I think a straightforward description of how plants increase would be sufficient to promote caution. For example, "stoloniferous" always puts me in mind of mint, morning glory and couch grass, and I would try such a plant in a pot first to see how fast it travelled in my conditions. Its behaviour could be radically different in two gardens only a short distance away, as I have discovered by giving away a piece of something that has barely survived for me for the past ten years, and it romps madly within a few months in my friend's garden. "Seeds freely" gives the means of control - cut the flowers - get a reputation for generosity by giving a bouquet to each visitor. Etc. Diane Whitehead Victoria, B.C. On 23-Nov-10, at 9:20 PM, AW wrote: > we should not say 'invasive' or 'weedy' etc, but we could > say 'invasive in the region...' From kimcmich@hotmail.com Wed Nov 24 01:39:15 2010 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: Weedy bulbous plants Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 22:39:12 -0800 Greetings, I agree with Andrew that it's important to provide accurate information about a plant's behavior and to that end we should not avoid labeling a weedy plant as such. If the specific, and weighty term "invasive" is the problem then we could presumably settle on alternate terminology on the wiki such as "Reported as being weedy by gardeners in San Diego." Whatever terms we choose, we should try to be thorough, honest, and accurate in the wiki just as we would be on the mailing list. -| From: awilson@avonia.com > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:20:17 -0800 > Subject: Re: [pbs] Weedy bulbous plants > > Dear James, > > Your point is taken. Any plant found to be weedy should have its region of > weediness circumscribed, precisely what we have been attempting to do with > one species here. A broader declaration is valueless, or worse, misleading. > In other words, we should not say 'invasive' or 'weedy' etc, but we could > say 'invasive in the region...' > > Standing back, if we do not provide warning where it is necessitated, to > people who have not attempted growing some bulb, then we have failed in our > responsibility. > > Andrew Wilson > San Diego > > > > Dear Friends, > Perhaps I am needlessly paranoid about the 'Invasive Plant Police', > but I do not think it is the purpose of this forum or the wiki to add injury > to this white list/ black list endeavor. I am convinced that almost any > plant can be exuberant, weedy, over active, whatever, given the right > conditions*, but any (and I do mean any) stamp of 'INVASIVE" on the wiki > will merely serve as further proof of the need for prohibition and denial of > the right to grow this plant in every other part of the country. > > > By keeping invasive comments into the body of 'conversations' > on individual messages, we do not give a PBS stamp to this situation. > On the email list individuals can share experiences without tagging a plant > over the entire course of its cultivation. > > I just suggest we be extremely careful before we start tagging any > item on the wiki as "Invasive' and so approved by PBS. > > Is this too extreme to suggest? Just think about what this > means and its repercussions. Best Jim W. > > > > * For example, I was recently shocked to hear from Ina in New Zealand what > an "invasive weed" Lapageria rosea had become for her. Surely there are > extremely few people who would want to see this blacklisted from growing in > the US because it has invasive tendencies in N. Z. > -- > > Dr. James W. Waddick > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From cvschalkwyk@lantic.net Wed Nov 24 10:40:14 2010 Message-Id: From: "Christiaan van Schalkwyk" Subject: Weedy oxalis Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 16:56:21 +0200 Hi All In my nice South African garden Oxalis convexula has never formed axial bulbs. But some other species do. Salter in his monograph noted that O convexula is such a vigorous plant, that it kept growing inbetween the pages of his press, he had to poison it in order to make herbarium specimens. One needs to remember that most Oxalis species will not form seeds in cultivation, with the exemption of much collected species, such as O obtusa, O purpurea, O flava, O hirta, and possibly O ambigua (there might be more - but that's all I can think of at the moment!). Even O pes-caprae does not set seeds, it is the bulbils thats causing all the problems. I have planted many Oxalis in my garden, which gets water weekly throughout the year. O. obtusa did not survive. Different forms of O flava, O purpurea as well as O stenorrhyncha, O adenodes, O annae, O gracilis and O convexula looked very stunning this year (the 2nd year) Some bulbs were removed (garden rearrangement ! ) and were definitely more abundand, but did not spread much wider that where they were orriginally, with the exeption of the white flowered form of O purpurea, which sent up a tuft about 30cm from the mother plant. Mostly I would recommend pot culture, as it is still the safest way to grow Oxalis. But the pots should not sit on the ground - the drainage holes are excelent for escapee bulbs to form and spread. The only species I can regard as being invasive in my garden is O zeekoevleyensis (I had (HAD!) two different clones and they did set seeds abundantly) and O haedulipes - once again too many colections thus more than one stylar form + being in the centre of it's natural distribution + the necessary insect vectors = seeds. Even with more than 70 forms of O obtusa and deliberate pollination, I very seldom see seeds on this species. The other invasive Oxalis species are Oxalis corniculata (non bulbous, and set seeds easily) and O latifolia, an invasive weed from North America. Happy growing ! Christiaan From Santoury@aol.com Wed Nov 24 11:33:17 2010 Message-Id: <8CD5A0C599C8AE0-1B88-47FA@webmail-m097.sysops.aol.com> From: santoury@aol.com Subject: Weedy bulbous plants Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 11:32:41 -0500 Well, I really don't like seeing the term "invasive" used , ever - there are people who LOVE the plants that are not invasive in certain conditions. For example, Lapageria, is a highly sought-after plant here, and there's not a snowball's chance in hell that it would "take over." In fact, I'd LOVE to have several for my greenhouse. There are plants that are especially successful in propagating themselves, yes, but I disagree with the whole invasive term. Norway Maples are very "aggressive" as are Wisterias, here, but in other parts of the country, people seek them out. Using "invasive" only shuts off access to plants that could otherwise be well enjoyed by others. That said, I welcome any and all plants that are not wanted - I like them all. -----Original Message----- From: James Waddick To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Tue, Nov 23, 2010 10:17 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] Weedy bulbous plants Dear Friends, Perhaps I am needlessly paranoid about the 'Invasive Plant Police', but I do not think it is the purpose of this forum or the wiki to add injury to this white list/ black list endeavor. I am convinced that almost any plant can be exuberant, weedy, over active, whatever, given the right conditions*, but any (and I do mean any) stamp of 'INVASIVE" on the wiki will merely serve as further proof of the need for prohibition and denial of the right to grow this plant in every other part of the country. By keeping invasive comments into the body of 'conversations' on individual messages, we do not give a PBS stamp to this situation. On the email list individuals can share experiences without tagging a plant over the entire course of its cultivation. I just suggest we be extremely careful before we start tagging any item on the wiki as "Invasive' and so approved by PBS. Is this too extreme to suggest? Just think about what this means and its repercussions. Best Jim W. * For example, I was recently shocked to hear from Ina in New Zealand what an "invasive weed" Lapageria rosea had become for her. Surely there are extremely few people who would want to see this blacklisted from growing in the US because it has invasive tendencies in N. Z. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Wed Nov 24 12:33:30 2010 Message-Id: <85B3DE9385FB4DD6936AE116E429CBCB@tower> From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: Weedy bulbous plants Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:17:07 -0800 Dear Jim: >Perhaps I am needlessly paranoid about the 'Invasive Plant Police '< You are not "needlessly paranoid". Work is progressing on the government's proposal of a White List of approved plants. If a plant is not on the list, it is automatically banned. I was casually asked by my agricultural agent last year if banning Oxalis would hurt my business. I don't think that question came out of the blue. The White List proposal has been extensively discussed on this list, and I remember well a couple of years ago a representative of the USDAA saying emphatically that if a plant was weedy or invasive in one situation they would ban it for the entire country. I think Lantana and the problems it has caused in Hawaii was cited. When the USDAA gathers information, you may be certain that it will refer to this list for bulb information, so coupling the name of a bulb with the epithet weedy or invasive could be used as justification for banning it. In this climate all kinds of things self sow with great vigor, including Verbascum, Verbena bonariense, feverfew, borage and virtually anything that produces copious seed. Not Oxalis, though. I used to throw my surplus Oxalis bulbs on the ground outside the greenhouses, where they would form lovely little mats throughout their first winter, never to appear again. I live surrounded by pasture. Not one garden plant has ever appeared in the adjacent pastures whereas they sow themselves vigorously in my garden. We should be very, very careful in how we describe plants that make themselves at home in our gardens and neighborhoods. I don't even cosider O. pes-caprae invasive. I have never seen it invade pastures or natural areas, it is mostly present in gardens and disturbed areas in California. Most people don't like it because it competes visually with plants they want to grow. It does not out-compete them and drive them over the brink, in fact it only thrives where there is little to compete with, and I speak from first hand experience. A tip for dealing with aerial bulbils produced by O. convexula and others. Vacuum them up before they have a chance to blow around. A small hand held vacuum works great. I do this so that they don't get in the adjacent pots. Diana From ksayce@willapabay.org Wed Nov 24 20:48:57 2010 Message-Id: From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: Weedy bulbous plants Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 17:48:48 -0800 One of the reasons I used the term legacy plants, when working on what species might naturalize in gardens, was to avoid the use of the word invasive. As several members have pointed out, not all species are aggressive in all gardens. Behavior can vary within 50 to 100 miles. So, as also pointed out, knowing where a member gardens, and the climate, and specific growing conditions that trigger ebullient growth, to pick a different phrase, will help all of us make decisions for our own gardens. Kathleen Pacific Northwest, zone 7-8, mostly wet winters, though it is snowing right now, mostly dry mild summers From awilson@avonia.com Thu Nov 25 00:17:50 2010 Message-Id: <96A06B85AB7849E7936DB8057CE9DBCB@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: Weedy bulbous plants Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:18:24 -0800 Dear Diana, You mention the threatened policy of USDA "if a plant was weedy or invasive in one situation they would ban it for the entire country". That's an unfortunate choice although it is understandable if you are considering importation of a species new to the country. Once it is in the country there are far fewer limitations on its travel. Australia and New Zealand have similar and extremely tough laws on the matter. Regarding the USDA gathering bulb information from our list, there is information already within it regarding weedy bulbous behavior. For instance, the Photo & Information section says "Oxalis pes-caprae, known as the Bermuda Buttercup, has become a major weed in many Mediterranean areas of the world". If they look outside our site, the Jepson Manual describes the same species as 'a pernicious urban weed' within the state of California. Online, if they look at the site of an organization that deals with weedy species http://www.cal-ipc.org/resources/news/pdf/caleppc_news3067.pdf they'll find plenty to whet their interest in the way of weedy bulbs in the garden and bulbs escaped into the wild. I think it would be naïve to think that PBS's modest contributions to this large subject could determine whether the USDA decides to ban or admit a new bulbous species. That being the case, I believe we should be direct and accurate in the descriptions of the bulbs. The Wiki provides many growers with access to valuable data to a huge number of species; we should maintain its high standards, reporting information that would assist those growers for all bulbs, including those that can be weedy in certain places. You mentioned that O. convexula does produce bulbils for you. I am assuming this is indoors and/or with potted plants, as you refer to the use of a vacuum cleaner. Outdoors, and with plants in the ground or among scree, this method would be quite ineffective. I find that outdors, the tiny bulbils do not blow around in the wind, but are washed into cracks and crevices by dew or rain. That does not make the solution easy. This year has been unusually wet here early in the season, so that real care has been needed to ensure that seedlings were plucked out before they reached bulbil stage - some showed blooms but I got there in time. Tedious. Andrew Wilson San Diego Dear Jim: >Perhaps I am needlessly paranoid about the 'Invasive Plant Police '< You are not "needlessly paranoid". Work is progressing on the government's proposal of a White List of approved plants. If a plant is not on the list, it is automatically banned. I was casually asked by my agricultural agent last year if banning Oxalis would hurt my business. I don't think that question came out of the blue. The White List proposal has been extensively discussed on this list, and I remember well a couple of years ago a representative of the USDAA saying emphatically that if a plant was weedy or invasive in one situation they would ban it for the entire country. I think Lantana and the problems it has caused in Hawaii was cited. When the USDAA gathers information, you may be certain that it will refer to this list for bulb information, so coupling the name of a bulb with the epithet weedy or invasive could be used as justification for banning it. In this climate all kinds of things self sow with great vigor, including Verbascum, Verbena bonariense, feverfew, borage and virtually anything that produces copious seed. Not Oxalis, though. I used to throw my surplus Oxalis bulbs on the ground outside the greenhouses, where they would form lovely little mats throughout their first winter, never to appear again. I live surrounded by pasture. Not one garden plant has ever appeared in the adjacent pastures whereas they sow themselves vigorously in my garden. We should be very, very careful in how we describe plants that make themselves at home in our gardens and neighborhoods. I don't even cosider O. pes-caprae invasive. I have never seen it invade pastures or natural areas, it is mostly present in gardens and disturbed areas in California. Most people don't like it because it competes visually with plants they want to grow. It does not out-compete them and drive them over the brink, in fact it only thrives where there is little to compete with, and I speak from first hand experience. A tip for dealing with aerial bulbils produced by O. convexula and others. Vacuum them up before they have a chance to blow around. A small hand held vacuum works great. I do this so that they don't get in the adjacent pots. Diana From zigur@hotmail.com Thu Nov 25 00:48:55 2010 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: Weedy bulbous plants Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:48:53 -0800 Having read the proposals from the USDA, it think it would be naïve and potentially disastrous to expect them to use any kind of logic in their determinations. Andrew, you have not observed any kind of invasive behaviour, correct? T > From: awilson@avonia.com > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:18:24 -0800 > Subject: Re: [pbs] Weedy bulbous plants > I think it would be naïve to think > that PBS's modest contributions to this large subject could determine > whether the USDA decides to ban or admit a new bulbous species. That being From awilson@avonia.com Thu Nov 25 01:50:16 2010 Message-Id: <40EE6207BA894AE285627A60B0726556@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: Weedy bulbous plants Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 22:50:42 -0800 Tim, I have not observed invasive behaviour, but that's because I have remained on top of it, gradually eliminating the problem over five years. The bulbuils may remain dormant for more than a year. Andrew - Having read the proposals from the USDA, it think it would be naïve and potentially disastrous to expect them to use any kind of logic in their determinations. Andrew, you have not observed any kind of invasive behaviour, correct? T From ds429@comcast.net Thu Nov 25 08:20:33 2010 Message-Id: <000001cb8ca3$8adf77d0$a09e6770$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 261 CLOSED Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 08:20:34 -0500 Most everything is claimed. Packages should go out after the weekend. Best wishes for a Happy Thanksgiving, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Thu Nov 25 09:56:08 2010 Message-Id: From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: Weedy bulbous plants Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 06:56:04 -0800 I don't think it is naive at all. Is it logical to ban a plant from the continental US that has caused problems in Hawaii? Also, imagine how these determinations are going to be made. Scientifically? This simply isn't possible, so anecdotal evidence is probably all they can gather. I am not saying that a determination would be made based on information from PBS, but I can assure you that the gathers of information will look into the sources available, and PBS is one. Having dealt with government beaurocracies during my professional life, I don't think logic is their strong point. Diana ----- Original Message ----- From: "AW" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Weedy bulbous plants Dear Diana, You mention the threatened policy of USDA "if a plant was weedy or invasive in one situation they would ban it for the entire country". That's an unfortunate choice although it is understandable if you are considering importation of a species new to the country. Once it is in the country there are far fewer limitations on its travel. Australia and New Zealand have similar and extremely tough laws on the matter. Regarding the USDA gathering bulb information from our list, there is information already within it regarding weedy bulbous behavior. For instance, the Photo & Information section says "Oxalis pes-caprae, known as the Bermuda Buttercup, has become a major weed in many Mediterranean areas of the world". If they look outside our site, the Jepson Manual describes the same species as 'a pernicious urban weed' within the state of California. Online, if they look at the site of an organization that deals with weedy species http://www.cal-ipc.org/resources/news/pdf/caleppc_news3067.pdf they'll find plenty to whet their interest in the way of weedy bulbs in the garden and bulbs escaped into the wild. I think it would be naïve to think that PBS's modest contributions to this large subject could determine whether the USDA decides to ban or admit a new bulbous species. That being the case, I believe we should be direct and accurate in the descriptions of the bulbs. The Wiki provides many growers with access to valuable data to a huge number of species; we should maintain its high standards, reporting information that would assist those growers for all bulbs, including those that can be weedy in certain places. You mentioned that O. convexula does produce bulbils for you. I am assuming this is indoors and/or with potted plants, as you refer to the use of a vacuum cleaner. Outdoors, and with plants in the ground or among scree, this method would be quite ineffective. I find that outdors, the tiny bulbils do not blow around in the wind, but are washed into cracks and crevices by dew or rain. That does not make the solution easy. This year has been unusually wet here early in the season, so that real care has been needed to ensure that seedlings were plucked out before they reached bulbil stage - some showed blooms but I got there in time. Tedious. Andrew Wilson San Diego Dear Jim: >Perhaps I am needlessly paranoid about the 'Invasive Plant Police '< You are not "needlessly paranoid". Work is progressing on the government's proposal of a White List of approved plants. If a plant is not on the list, it is automatically banned. I was casually asked by my agricultural agent last year if banning Oxalis would hurt my business. I don't think that question came out of the blue. The White List proposal has been extensively discussed on this list, and I remember well a couple of years ago a representative of the USDAA saying emphatically that if a plant was weedy or invasive in one situation they would ban it for the entire country. I think Lantana and the problems it has caused in Hawaii was cited. When the USDAA gathers information, you may be certain that it will refer to this list for bulb information, so coupling the name of a bulb with the epithet weedy or invasive could be used as justification for banning it. In this climate all kinds of things self sow with great vigor, including Verbascum, Verbena bonariense, feverfew, borage and virtually anything that produces copious seed. Not Oxalis, though. I used to throw my surplus Oxalis bulbs on the ground outside the greenhouses, where they would form lovely little mats throughout their first winter, never to appear again. I live surrounded by pasture. Not one garden plant has ever appeared in the adjacent pastures whereas they sow themselves vigorously in my garden. We should be very, very careful in how we describe plants that make themselves at home in our gardens and neighborhoods. I don't even cosider O. pes-caprae invasive. I have never seen it invade pastures or natural areas, it is mostly present in gardens and disturbed areas in California. Most people don't like it because it competes visually with plants they want to grow. It does not out-compete them and drive them over the brink, in fact it only thrives where there is little to compete with, and I speak from first hand experience. A tip for dealing with aerial bulbils produced by O. convexula and others. Vacuum them up before they have a chance to blow around. A small hand held vacuum works great. I do this so that they don't get in the adjacent pots. Diana _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From npublici@yahoo.com Thu Nov 25 19:32:47 2010 Message-Id: <621931.83471.qm@web59715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> From: Del Allegood Subject: Weedy bulbous plants Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 16:26:04 -0800 (PST) If the government is as successful at this, as they are at many other things,we will be left with a bland growing pallette,indeed. I'm not sure that this should be a federal responsibility at all. Brazilian pepper is a real pest in Florida,as are several other plants. A few miles north of Florida these plants freeze. In my lifetime our federal government has been taking tremendous amounts of power for itsself,and away from the states,without much basis on precident. Many of the rules, regulations and laws in place now virtually insure the demise of many rare species. Del ________________________________ From: Diana Chapman To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Thu, November 25, 2010 9:56:04 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Weedy bulbous plants I don't think it is naive at all. Is it logical to ban a plant from the continental US that has caused problems in Hawaii? Also, imagine how these determinations are going to be made. Scientifically? This simply isn't possible, so anecdotal evidence is probably all they can gather. I am not saying that a determination would be made based on information from PBS, but I can assure you that the gathers of information will look into the sources available, and PBS is one. Having dealt with government beaurocracies during my professional life, I don't think logic is their strong point. Diana ----- Original Message ----- From: "AW" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Weedy bulbous plants Dear Diana, You mention the threatened policy of USDA "if a plant was weedy or invasive in one situation they would ban it for the entire country". That's an unfortunate choice although it is understandable if you are considering importation of a species new to the country. Once it is in the country there are far fewer limitations on its travel. Australia and New Zealand have similar and extremely tough laws on the matter. Regarding the USDA gathering bulb information from our list, there is information already within it regarding weedy bulbous behavior. For instance, the Photo & Information section says "Oxalis pes-caprae, known as the Bermuda Buttercup, has become a major weed in many Mediterranean areas of the world". If they look outside our site, the Jepson Manual describes the same species as 'a pernicious urban weed' within the state of California. Online, if they look at the site of an organization that deals with weedy species http://www.cal-ipc.org/resources/news/pdf/caleppc_news3067.pdf they'll find plenty to whet their interest in the way of weedy bulbs in the garden and bulbs escaped into the wild. I think it would be naïve to think that PBS's modest contributions to this large subject could determine whether the USDA decides to ban or admit a new bulbous species. That being the case, I believe we should be direct and accurate in the descriptions of the bulbs. The Wiki provides many growers with access to valuable data to a huge number of species; we should maintain its high standards, reporting information that would assist those growers for all bulbs, including those that can be weedy in certain places. You mentioned that O. convexula does produce bulbils for you. I am assuming this is indoors and/or with potted plants, as you refer to the use of a vacuum cleaner. Outdoors, and with plants in the ground or among scree, this method would be quite ineffective. I find that outdors, the tiny bulbils do not blow around in the wind, but are washed into cracks and crevices by dew or rain. That does not make the solution easy. This year has been unusually wet here early in the season, so that real care has been needed to ensure that seedlings were plucked out before they reached bulbil stage - some showed blooms but I got there in time. Tedious. Andrew Wilson San Diego Dear Jim: > Perhaps I am needlessly paranoid about the 'Invasive Plant Police '< You are not "needlessly paranoid". Work is progressing on the government's proposal of a White List of approved plants. If a plant is not on the list, it is automatically banned. I was casually asked by my agricultural agent last year if banning Oxalis would hurt my business. I don't think that question came out of the blue. The White List proposal has been extensively discussed on this list, and I remember well a couple of years ago a representative of the USDAA saying emphatically that if a plant was weedy or invasive in one situation they would ban it for the entire country. I think Lantana and the problems it has caused in Hawaii was cited. When the USDAA gathers information, you may be certain that it will refer to this list for bulb information, so coupling the name of a bulb with the epithet weedy or invasive could be used as justification for banning it. In this climate all kinds of things self sow with great vigor, including Verbascum, Verbena bonariense, feverfew, borage and virtually anything that produces copious seed. Not Oxalis, though. I used to throw my surplus Oxalis bulbs on the ground outside the greenhouses, where they would form lovely little mats throughout their first winter, never to appear again. I live surrounded by pasture. Not one garden plant has ever appeared in the adjacent pastures whereas they sow themselves vigorously in my garden. We should be very, very careful in how we describe plants that make themselves at home in our gardens and neighborhoods. I don't even cosider O. pes-caprae invasive. I have never seen it invade pastures or natural areas, it is mostly present in gardens and disturbed areas in California. Most people don't like it because it competes visually with plants they want to grow. It does not out-compete them and drive them over the brink, in fact it only thrives where there is little to compete with, and I speak from first hand experience. A tip for dealing with aerial bulbils produced by O. convexula and others. Vacuum them up before they have a chance to blow around. A small hand held vacuum works great. I do this so that they don't get in the adjacent pots. Diana _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From SRS0=1xKvHe=S3=gmail.com=rob.blomquist@srs.bis.na.blackberry.com Thu Nov 25 20:08:35 2010 Message-Id: <329261487-1290733710-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1419442698-@bda775.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> From: "Rob Blomquist" Subject: Weedy bulbous plants Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 01:08:28 +0000 I think that the feds are on top of the issue through the states. Off hand, I don't have a URL for WA, but the WA site is pretty thorough, with Kudzu and many others listed. As far as importation of plants, well, nobody knows, who would expect English Ivy to be the bain it is in the PNW or the Starling as the scourge it is. We all are all reponsible for the commons. Rob Montlake Terrace, Wa -----Original Message----- From: Del Allegood Sender: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 16:26:04 To: Pacific Bulb Society Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Weedy bulbous plants If the government is as successful at this, as they are at many other things,we will be left with a bland growing pallette,indeed. I'm not sure that this should be a federal responsibility at all. Brazilian pepper is a real pest in Florida,as are several other plants. A few miles north of Florida these plants freeze. In my lifetime our federal government has been taking tremendous amounts of power for itsself,and away from the states,without much basis on precident. Many of the rules, regulations and laws in place now virtually insure the demise of many rare species. Del ________________________________ From: Diana Chapman To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Thu, November 25, 2010 9:56:04 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Weedy bulbous plants I don't think it is naive at all. Is it logical to ban a plant from the continental US that has caused problems in Hawaii? Also, imagine how these determinations are going to be made. Scientifically? This simply isn't possible, so anecdotal evidence is probably all they can gather. I am not saying that a determination would be made based on information from PBS, but I can assure you that the gathers of information will look into the sources available, and PBS is one. Having dealt with government beaurocracies during my professional life, I don't think logic is their strong point. Diana ----- Original Message ----- From: "AW" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Weedy bulbous plants Dear Diana, You mention the threatened policy of USDA "if a plant was weedy or invasive in one situation they would ban it for the entire country". That's an unfortunate choice although it is understandable if you are considering importation of a species new to the country. Once it is in the country there are far fewer limitations on its travel. Australia and New Zealand have similar and extremely tough laws on the matter. Regarding the USDA gathering bulb information from our list, there is information already within it regarding weedy bulbous behavior. For instance, the Photo & Information section says "Oxalis pes-caprae, known as the Bermuda Buttercup, has become a major weed in many Mediterranean areas of the world". If they look outside our site, the Jepson Manual describes the same species as 'a pernicious urban weed' within the state of California. Online, if they look at the site of an organization that deals with weedy species http://www.cal-ipc.org/resources/news/pdf/caleppc_news3067.pdf they'll find plenty to whet their interest in the way of weedy bulbs in the garden and bulbs escaped into the wild. I think it would be naïve to think that PBS's modest contributions to this large subject could determine whether the USDA decides to ban or admit a new bulbous species. That being the case, I believe we should be direct and accurate in the descriptions of the bulbs. The Wiki provides many growers with access to valuable data to a huge number of species; we should maintain its high standards, reporting information that would assist those growers for all bulbs, including those that can be weedy in certain places. You mentioned that O. convexula does produce bulbils for you. I am assuming this is indoors and/or with potted plants, as you refer to the use of a vacuum cleaner. Outdoors, and with plants in the ground or among scree, this method would be quite ineffective. I find that outdors, the tiny bulbils do not blow around in the wind, but are washed into cracks and crevices by dew or rain. That does not make the solution easy. This year has been unusually wet here early in the season, so that real care has been needed to ensure that seedlings were plucked out before they reached bulbil stage - some showed blooms but I got there in time. Tedious. Andrew Wilson San Diego Dear Jim: > Perhaps I am needlessly paranoid about the 'Invasive Plant Police '< You are not "needlessly paranoid". Work is progressing on the government's proposal of a White List of approved plants. If a plant is not on the list, it is automatically banned. I was casually asked by my agricultural agent last year if banning Oxalis would hurt my business. I don't think that question came out of the blue. The White List proposal has been extensively discussed on this list, and I remember well a couple of years ago a representative of the USDAA saying emphatically that if a plant was weedy or invasive in one situation they would ban it for the entire country. I think Lantana and the problems it has caused in Hawaii was cited. When the USDAA gathers information, you may be certain that it will refer to this list for bulb information, so coupling the name of a bulb with the epithet weedy or invasive could be used as justification for banning it. In this climate all kinds of things self sow with great vigor, including Verbascum, Verbena bonariense, feverfew, borage and virtually anything that produces copious seed. Not Oxalis, though. I used to throw my surplus Oxalis bulbs on the ground outside the greenhouses, where they would form lovely little mats throughout their first winter, never to appear again. I live surrounded by pasture. Not one garden plant has ever appeared in the adjacent pastures whereas they sow themselves vigorously in my garden. We should be very, very careful in how we describe plants that make themselves at home in our gardens and neighborhoods. I don't even cosider O. pes-caprae invasive. I have never seen it invade pastures or natural areas, it is mostly present in gardens and disturbed areas in California. Most people don't like it because it competes visually with plants they want to grow. It does not out-compete them and drive them over the brink, in fact it only thrives where there is little to compete with, and I speak from first hand experience. A tip for dealing with aerial bulbils produced by O. convexula and others. Vacuum them up before they have a chance to blow around. A small hand held vacuum works great. I do this so that they don't get in the adjacent pots. Diana _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From loujost@yahoo.com Thu Nov 25 22:42:47 2010 Message-Id: <595413.77482.qm@web120519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: lou jost Subject: Weedy bulbous plants Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 19:42:44 -0800 (PST) While I am as leary of illogical government regulations as anyone, it seems to me extraordinary that there have been suggestions we be less than forthright about mentioning the weediness of some plants in some situations. What does this do to our credibility when we seek to give input on such regulations? And what if our lack of direct warnings does lead to an invasive problem somewhere? I vote for no mincing of words when we describe potentially invasive plant behavior. Lou From adam14113@ameritech.net Fri Nov 26 01:14:21 2010 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Weedy bulbous plants Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 00:14:20 -0600 You are absolutely right, Lou--- not just here with plants but in politics. If one does not call a spade a spade, how does the hearer know what one is talking about? Away with euphemisms!. Maybe the fussy taxonomists have a point that applies elsewhere., to our advantage and welfare. ----- Original Message ----- From: "lou jost" To: Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Weedy bulbous plants > While I am as leary of illogical government regulations as anyone, it > seems to me extraordinary that there have been suggestions we be less than > forthright about mentioning the weediness of some plants in some > situations. What does this do to our credibility when we seek to give > input on such regulations? And what if our lack of direct warnings does > lead to an invasive problem somewhere? I vote for no mincing of words when > we describe potentially invasive plant behavior. > Lou > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From msittner@mcn.org Fri Nov 26 10:11:13 2010 Message-Id: <20101126151111.42BF64C02E@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Conanthera Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 07:10:21 -0800 Hi, I've just added another species of Conanthera to the wiki courtesy of Lyn Edwards. This is a little know genus in the Tecophilaeaceae family from Chile. Mary Sue From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Nov 26 11:00:22 2010 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Conanthera Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 09:59:49 -0600 >I've just added another species of Conanthera to the wiki courtesy >of Lyn Edwards. This is a little know genus in the Tecophilaeaceae >family from Chile. > Dear MAry Sue, Thanks again for your generous input to the wiki. I went to read the entries there and was struck by the line "They are not quite hardy ". Now what does that mean?. I assume they are not AT ALL hardy here in the midwest, but are they not hardy in Central CA either? Or do you mean they are 'tender'"? or demand frost-free conditions or ? Sure are cute though. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From gmaculata@gmail.com Fri Nov 26 11:36:06 2010 Message-Id: From: Glen Lord Subject: Variegated Veltheimia bracteata Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 11:36:04 -0500 Hello to all. I am now to the PBS list and have been looking at the site for years. I grow many different plants from Succulent to Bonsai. I have a passion for variegated plants and have been trying to acquire a variegated Veltheimia bractiata for several years. I wonder if anyone can Direct me where to look? Regards, Glen M Lord zn5b Massachusetts USA -- Glen From eagle.85@verizon.net Fri Nov 26 12:00:26 2010 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Variegated Veltheimia bracteata Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 09:00:06 -0800 Yes, I have a beautiful one and am trying to find a picture of it. I will find it and send a picture to you SOON. Doug Westfall (in Long Beach, Ca.) From eagle.85@verizon.net Fri Nov 26 12:17:59 2010 Message-Id: <3836E774-4703-4776-A0AA-36654E39785B@verizon.net> From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Variegated Veltheimia bracteata Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 09:17:38 -0800 Glen, I found the picture. I have had the plant(s) for 12 years. This is a young bulb and it only gets better with age. I do have another one that shows the variegation best when it is young, but this is by far the best one that you will ever find. . Doug Westfall From mmattus@charter.net Fri Nov 26 12:58:31 2010 Message-Id: From: Matt Mattus Subject: Variegated Veltheimia bracteata Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 12:58:23 -0500 Welcome to the group Glen, Always great to hear from new members! I've only seen images of Variegated forms of V.bracteata in Japan, but not ones with a clear break in the foliage. Matt Mattus Worcester, MA Zone 5b USA On 11/26/10 11:36 AM, "Glen Lord" wrote: > Hello to all. I am now to the PBS list and have been looking at the site for > years. I grow many different plants from Succulent to Bonsai. I have a > passion for variegated plants and have been trying to acquire a variegated > Veltheimia bractiata for several years. I wonder if anyone can Direct me > where to look? > > Regards, > Glen M Lord > zn5b > Massachusetts USA From msittner@mcn.org Fri Nov 26 13:10:40 2010 Message-Id: <20101126181039.938494C07A@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Conanthera Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 10:10:04 -0800 Dear Jim, The pbs wiki is a compilation of the work of many people. That is the nature of the wiki. People can change each other's text, making corrections and adding information. Since we started the wiki in 2003 and have changed to a different software since then, it is often impossible to track who added information and figure out what they meant. However in this case, I found an old email from Bill Dijk who supplied the information for me and who was an early contributor to the wiki. I don't know where he got his information. I suspect that more people may need to grow this genus to test how hardy it is. Perhaps people on this list who have grown it can share their experiences for how they grow it and how much cold it can tolerate. Mary Sue From gmaculata@gmail.com Fri Nov 26 13:33:39 2010 Message-Id: From: Glen Lord Subject: Variegated Veltheimia bracteata Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:33:36 -0500 Thanks Matt! Doug, I am new to this but I do not see the pic. Are you sending it directly? I think the one on the PBS site is a pic of your plant. Glen On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Matt Mattus wrote: > Welcome to the group Glen, Always great to hear from new members! > I've only seen images of Variegated forms of V.bracteata in Japan, but not > ones with a clear break in the foliage. > > Matt Mattus > Worcester, MA > Zone 5b > USA > > > On 11/26/10 11:36 AM, "Glen Lord" wrote: > > > Hello to all. I am now to the PBS list and have been looking at the site > for > > years. I grow many different plants from Succulent to Bonsai. I have a > > passion for variegated plants and have been trying to acquire a > variegated > > Veltheimia bractiata for several years. I wonder if anyone can Direct me > > where to look? > > > > Regards, > > Glen M Lord > > zn5b > > Massachusetts USA > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Glen From mmattus@charter.net Fri Nov 26 13:56:50 2010 Message-Id: From: Matt Mattus Subject: Variegated Veltheimia bracteata Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:56:41 -0500 The only pic I found on Google Images in Dougs' from 2002. I think. On 11/26/10 1:33 PM, "Glen Lord" wrote: > Thanks Matt! Doug, I am new to this but I do not see the pic. Are you > sending it directly? I think the one on the PBS site is a pic of your > plant. Glen > > On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Matt Mattus wrote: > >> Welcome to the group Glen, Always great to hear from new members! >> I've only seen images of Variegated forms of V.bracteata in Japan, but not >> ones with a clear break in the foliage. >> >> Matt Mattus From gmaculata@gmail.com Fri Nov 26 13:59:16 2010 Message-Id: From: Glen Lord Subject: Variegated Veltheimia bracteata Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:59:12 -0500 Matt. I think that is the one I saw as well. On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 1:56 PM, Matt Mattus wrote: > The only pic I found on Google Images in Dougs' from 2002. I think. > > > On 11/26/10 1:33 PM, "Glen Lord" wrote: > > > Thanks Matt! Doug, I am new to this but I do not see the pic. Are you > > sending it directly? I think the one on the PBS site is a pic of your > > plant. Glen > > > > On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Matt Mattus > wrote: > > > >> Welcome to the group Glen, Always great to hear from new members! > >> I've only seen images of Variegated forms of V.bracteata in Japan, but > not > >> ones with a clear break in the foliage. > >> > >> Matt Mattus > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Glen From oothal@hotmail.com Fri Nov 26 16:05:25 2010 Message-Id: From: Justin Smith Subject: Conanthera Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 15:05:23 -0600 Hi All, I grow a couple of different Conanthera and I treat them the same. I have them in a sandy mix about 80 sand/20 loam in clay pots. I have them with my South African winter growing bulbs. Cold but never freezing. Completely dry in the summer. They seem to do ok though not blooming size yet. Our summers here can be very wet so I don't plant too many things in the ground. If you are wanting to grow these in the ground outdoors, I guess now, would be a good time to start tracking ground temperature/depth in relation to air temperature/duration indexed to rain/soil moisture levels. All that correlated with day/night cycles with lunar and solar relationships considered. Over a 20 or 30 year period with projections for possible future global warming/cooling trends taken into account. That would go a long way in determining how viable outdoor planting would be or you could just plant some and see what happens. Justin Woodville, TX 8b/9a > Subject: Re: [pbs] Conanthera > > Dear Jim, > > I suspect that more people may need to grow this genus to test how > hardy it is. Perhaps people on this list who have grown it can share > their experiences for how they grow it and how much cold it can tolerate. > > Mary Sue From eagle.85@verizon.net Fri Nov 26 16:11:28 2010 Message-Id: <96258DE7-2A9D-4F47-9814-ADC9B4357F37@verizon.net> From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Variegated Veltheimia bracteata Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:11:26 -0800 " I think the one on the PBS site is a pic of your plant" TRUE I'll try again From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Nov 26 18:52:50 2010 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: source of yellow Hesperantha Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 15:52:47 -0800 A plant breeder would like to include yellow flowers in her Hesperantha breeding. If you know a source, could you please email me privately. Thank you. Diane From davidfenwicksnr@googlemail.com Fri Nov 26 20:31:08 2010 Message-Id: <738A21FE97714A24BD1ECDD4D992729E@david2ctm3zeiq> From: "David Fenwick Snr." Subject: source of yellow Hesperantha Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 01:20:41 -0000 Hi Diane, Silverhill Seeds are currently selling seeds of the yellow Hesperantha vaginata. http://www.silverhillseeds.co.za Best Wishes, Dave The African Garden www.theafricangarden.com A-P-H-O-T-O WILDLIFE IMAGE LIBRARIES www.a-p-h-o-t-o.com From mikemace@att.net Sat Nov 27 00:25:11 2010 Message-Id: <002101cb8df3$74256c10$5c704430$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Weedy bulbous plants Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 21:25:07 -0800 Folks, I wrote a message to the list last July summarizing the "whitelist" situation in the US. If you're new to this discussion, you might want to check it out: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2009-July/034384.html A couple of thoughts... I agree that the import regulations in the US are unreasonably eroding our ability to practice our hobby. And I agree that bureaucracies tend to be, well, bureaucratic. But in this particular case, I don't think we can put most of the blame for the regulations on the bureaucrats. The US Congress *ordered* the USDA to put controls on potentially invasive plants. It's written into a law. The USDA has moved slowly on implementing that law, and in many cases has tried to modify it to minimize its impact on our hobby. There have also been some amazing behind the scenes cases in which a few involved people from the gardening societies have worked with the USDA to prevent major mistakes (the save that I'm aware of was the potential banning of the entire genus Moraea from the US after Homeria was merged into Moraea). The "bureaucrats" have been listening to us (when we've bothered to lobby back) and have been trying to accommodate us. But we're late to the party, and in most cases we're getting outshouted. The people pushing the whitelist in the US are the native plant societies, some academics, and their allies like the Nature Conservancy. They are very well organized, and many of them are amazingly strident. They are the one who pushed through the original legislation requiring import restrictions, and they've been lobbying the USDA (and threatening lawsuits) trying to enact the most restrictive regulations possible. I do think we should be very careful about what we label a weed, but I don't think we need to worry too much about our wiki being used as a source for banning plants. Unfortunately, the whitelist regulations as they were being structured the last time I checked would rely on peer-reviewed scientific articles to evaluate invasiveness. That sounds like a good approach, but some of those peer-reviewed articles make scientific guesses at invasiveness by looking at factors like the native climate of a bulb and how many seeds if it sets. So if it grows in a climate similar to some part of the US, and if it sets a lot of seeds, it could be assumed to be invasive even if all of us testify that in reality it isn't. On the other hand, if a species is shown to already be present in the US, it will be exempted from the whitelist. So I think one of the most useful things we can do on the wiki is document what we're already growing here. If you live in the US and don't like the regulations, tell your congressperson, and participate in the public comment opportunities when new regulations are proposed. And if you belong to a native plant society, tell it to back off. If you don't bother to do these things, then look in a mirror before you blame anybody else for the new regulations. Mike San Jose, CA From awilson@avonia.com Sat Nov 27 00:38:12 2010 Message-Id: <69D302D5672F447E8183EA6E13FDEA3A@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: Wiki insertion for Oxalis Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 21:41:22 -0800 Following input earlier this week I have inserted a few caution sentences in the text for Oxalis convexula, but not for the Oxalis genus. Andrew Wilson San Diego From adam14113@ameritech.net Sat Nov 27 01:56:25 2010 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Weedy bulbous plants Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 00:49:42 -0600 Thanks Michael, for the reminder. It will continue to be necessary to be reminded and to continue our input for many, many years, I suspect. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Mace" To: Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 11:25 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Weedy bulbous plants > Folks, > > I wrote a message to the list last July summarizing the "whitelist" > situation in the US. If you're new to this discussion, you might want to > check it out: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2009-July/034384.html > > A couple of thoughts... > > I agree that the import regulations in the US are unreasonably eroding our > ability to practice our hobby. > > And I agree that bureaucracies tend to be, well, bureaucratic. > > But in this particular case, I don't think we can put most of the blame > for > the regulations on the bureaucrats. The US Congress *ordered* the USDA to > put controls on potentially invasive plants. It's written into a law. > The > USDA has moved slowly on implementing that law, and in many cases has > tried > to modify it to minimize its impact on our hobby. There have also been > some > amazing behind the scenes cases in which a few involved people from the > gardening societies have worked with the USDA to prevent major mistakes > (the > save that I'm aware of was the potential banning of the entire genus > Moraea > from the US after Homeria was merged into Moraea). > > The "bureaucrats" have been listening to us (when we've bothered to lobby > back) and have been trying to accommodate us. But we're late to the > party, > and in most cases we're getting outshouted. > > The people pushing the whitelist in the US are the native plant societies, > some academics, and their allies like the Nature Conservancy. They are > very > well organized, and many of them are amazingly strident. They are the one > who pushed through the original legislation requiring import restrictions, > and they've been lobbying the USDA (and threatening lawsuits) trying to > enact the most restrictive regulations possible. > > I do think we should be very careful about what we label a weed, but I > don't > think we need to worry too much about our wiki being used as a source for > banning plants. Unfortunately, the whitelist regulations as they were > being > structured the last time I checked would rely on peer-reviewed scientific > articles to evaluate invasiveness. That sounds like a good approach, but > some of those peer-reviewed articles make scientific guesses at > invasiveness > by looking at factors like the native climate of a bulb and how many seeds > if it sets. So if it grows in a climate similar to some part of the US, > and > if it sets a lot of seeds, it could be assumed to be invasive even if all > of > us testify that in reality it isn't. > > On the other hand, if a species is shown to already be present in the US, > it > will be exempted from the whitelist. So I think one of the most useful > things we can do on the wiki is document what we're already growing here. > > If you live in the US and don't like the regulations, tell your > congressperson, and participate in the public comment opportunities when > new > regulations are proposed. And if you belong to a native plant society, > tell > it to back off. > > If you don't bother to do these things, then look in a mirror before you > blame anybody else for the new regulations. > > Mike > San Jose, CA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ds429@comcast.net Sat Nov 27 13:16:09 2010 Message-Id: <001901cb8e5f$2d4b0680$87e11380$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 262 Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 13:16:13 -0500 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 262" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Michael Mace: Amaryllis belladonna hybrid seed: Except where noted, the parent bulbs all came from Les Hannibal's garden in Sacramento.  The flowers were all open pollinated, so I can't guarantee what you'll get.  Some will be crosses with other nearby plants, others will be clones of the parents.  In particular, seeds from whites may turn out to be pink, and the offspring from pinks can be white.  But I promise that you'll get an interesting selection. You can find photos of most of these flowers on the PBS wiki, here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Amaryllis 1. Mixed pinks: If you want a variety of Amaryllis to play with, this is the choice for you.  Open pollinated seeds from 20 or 30 different pink Amaryllis hybrids, ranging from light to dark pink.  Given the complex genetics of Amaryllis, some of these flowers will be white. 2. Mixed whites: Open pollinated seeds from white flowers.  Most will be white, some will be pink. 3. MBQ 01   A very robust plant with dark pink flowers, nicely radial.  From the old BioQuest nursery.  One of my overall best Amaryllis bulbs. 4. MLH 01   White flowers with a pale yellow center.  The closest I have to a pure white.  This one doesn't bloom often. 5. MLH 03   White flowers with a deep yellow throat.  Fairly radial form. 6. MLH 05   Very light pink lines in the outer third of the flower, white center.  Wide flowers with few ruffles. 7. MLH 07   Pale pink veins with a white star in the center. 8. MLH 09   Mid-pink without a lot of veining, and a yellow center.  Broad petals and ruffles.  Radial. 9. MLH 12   Light pink with a white star at the center.  Few lines and no ruffles.  Light scent. 10. MLH 14   Streaky pink petals, dark at the tips, with a pale yellow center.  No ruffles.  Ages to solid pink. 11. MLH 17   Fairly dark pink with darker veins and yellow center.  Average size, few ruffles.  Not radial. 12. MLH 18   Medium pink aging to deep mauvey pink.  White center.  Very radial, flowers not particularly large.  A dependable bloomer. 13. MLH 19   This one is very robust.  Very large and tall inflorescence, large mid-pink flowers with ruffles.  White centers.  Not radial. 14. MLH 27   Ruffled mid-pink flowers with white center, aging to solid pink.  Not radial. 15. MLH 30   Nicely radial.  White flowers with yellow-orange centers.  Slight ruffles, fairly good bud count.  Flowers are a little bit undersized. 16. MLH 33   Flowers start cream colored (very pale pink veins on the outer quarter of the flower), and then age to solid pink.  The inflorescence produces a berries & cream effect.  Not radial. 17. MLH 34   Flowers start pale pink on the outer parts of the petals, with a white center.  They age to dark pink in the center, creating a striking bullseye effect.  Not radial.  This one doesn't bloom often, so if you want seeds of it, take them now. 18. MLH 39   White with a yellow throat.  Fairly radial, but inflorescence leans toward the sun. 19. MLH 51   White flowers with very narrow pink edges on the petals; a picotee effect. 20. MM 01-06   This is a cross of MLH 18 x MLH 04 21. MM 02-04   (MLH 24 x MLH 04).  White with a yellow center.  Fairly broad petals, not very radial. 22. MM 2010A   Extremely radial white with a few ruffles and yellow centers.  Sorry, only a few seeds.  MLH 30 is similar. 23. MM 99-14A   (MLH 03 x MLH 19).  This cross has produced some great plants.  This particular one has a huge number of buds -- about 30 of them.  Flowers are lightly veined pink with yellow centers.  Photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/83542459@N00/5177291798/ 24. MM 99-16A   (MLH 03 x MLH 18).  Clear vivid magenta flowers with white centers and unusually wide petals.  A nicely radial flower head.  Photo:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/83542459@N00/5177292176/in/photostream/ Nerine seeds Like the Amaryllis, these are open pollinated, so you may get surprises.  Photos here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NerineHybrids 25. Nerine sarniensis ex. A Dry Garden   Found this one in a nursery in Oakland, CA.  Magenta, floriferous and reliable.  Ruffled and slightly asymmetrical.  It was labeled as Nerine sarniensis, but it's probably not a pure sarniensis selection.  A nice plant, though. 26. Nerine 'Kenilworth'   Salmon colored, very radial, vigorous. From Jerry Lehman: 27. Bulbs of Zephyranthes “Pink Rainlily” not so vigorous in clumping and blooming, but large bulbs and large dark ponk flowers – when it flowers 28. Small bulbs of Eucharis amazonica (E. grandiflora?) not a prolific number of flowers at one time, but reliable come late summer/fall. Fragrant. 29. Small tubers of Amorphophallus rivieri var konjac 30. Bulbs of Zephyranthes ‘White Rainlily’ A good vigorous grower and clumper – good number of white flowers during summer and fall. Originally sold to me as Z. candida. From Alberto Grossi: 31. Seed of Urginea maritima Thank you, Mike, Jerry, and Alberto !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Sat Nov 27 16:18:58 2010 Message-Id: <548431D9-75D9-4E61-B477-19F7B6E3BE76@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Conanthera | The use of hardy/half-hardy/tender Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 13:12:07 -0800 On Nov 26, 2010, at 7:59 AM, James Waddick wrote: > > I went to read the entries there and was struck by the line > "They are not quite hardy ". > > Now what does that mean?. I assume they are not AT ALL hardy here in the midwest, but are they not hardy in Central CA either? > > Or do you mean they are 'tender'"? or demand frost-free conditions or ? > I grow this Conanthera (trimaculata) as well as bifolia and campanulata, here in the southern California coastal valleys area. They are really carefree and flower every year for me without my having to do anything special. I give them no protection. However, it only just gets down to 0°C most winters, and even in a very cold winter such as the one we had 2 or 3 years ago, it only got down to -4°C on two consecutive mornings. This was cold enough to badly damage leaves on some Clivia that happened to be completely exposed to the sky and not near any buildings or walls. None of my Conantheras were protected either and they were unaffected by this freeze, so they can take a little bit of cold. However, I completely agree with Jim W. about the usage of "hardy", "half hardy", and "tender" without an associated location included in the description. I remember when I was a teenager, before I learned more about different world climates, that I was always stymied by the use of these words in descriptions of plants that I wanted to try growing at my home in Texas. I didn't pay attention at the time to the fact that many of these were from descriptions given in British books for people living in Great Britain. What I did know at the time was that many of the plants that I was already growing often did not correlate with the hardy/half hardy/tender descriptions given in the library books I checked out. And I could tell they didn't correlate with what I knew of their hardiness growing in the northern half of the U.S. It was very puzzling and was almost useless information for me, but I didn't have any other sources of information for some of these plants. (I was particularly perturbed by the term "half hardy". I didn't know what to do with such a plant. Could I grow it? Or would it die in the winter? I couldn't tell.) I've been on business a lot in the last 4 months in São José dos Campos, Brazil which is just north of the Tropic of Capricorn near São Paulo at about 2000 feet above sea level, but only about 50 or so km away from the ocean. I've always been puzzled by what little I could figure out about the climate in this region from available weather statistics online. It turns out to be a very interesting and basically pleasant climate. I thought that other than being on the humid eastern side of the continent, it was somewhat similar temperature-wise to southern California. However, it turns out to be much milder at both extremes and, from my point of view, you can grow a much wider range of different plants than you can in southern California. I'm speaking of temperatures here, as in hardy, tender, etc. Humidity and annual rainfall pattern are also important for different plant species, but those are different factors than hardiness vs. tenderness. (The most obvious difference being that mediterranean plants will be a challenge to grow here due to the heavy summer rainfall and almost dry winters.) While we can grow Heliconia and mangoes in parts of southern California, it's not that easy, and you don't get prolific fruiting or flowering. However, in SE Brazil as they call it, mangoes grow everywhere, both as intentionally planted shade trees and wild growing trees that appear to have come from seeds that were abandoned. Right now there are mangoes of all kinds maturing on trees throughout the city. It's kind of amazing to see. And there are spectacular inflorescences of Heliconias of all kinds of species visible as one walks or drives around town. What is amazing to me is that in the winter time however, it is rather cool, very reminiscent of the fluctuating temperatures we can experience in So. Calif. during the wintertime. And yet it can (until recently, in the past 10-15 years, according to Mauro Peixoto who lives in this area) frequently get close to freezing, and even below freezing in exceptional winters. Mauro says it used to regularly frost every winter several times with lows down to 0° or 1°C, with an exceptional freeze of -4°C about once every 10-20 years. And yet the trees are filled with epiphytes, many bromeliads and some orchids, and they're all native (except for the mangoes). Worsleya procera experiences this kind of weather as do a number of Griffinia species. And yet true tropicals won't grow here; it's just too chilly in the winter. (Things like Cacao, red sealing wax palm, and cashew for example. Cashew survives but never fruits. However, pineapple of all things does just fine and I have photos of them fruiting right next to Japanese persimmon trees that are also fruiting with lettuce growing right next to them fully exposed yet not bolting nor becoming bitter in what is equivalent to being almost June in the northern hemisphere.) So one could say that pineapples are hardy here, cashew is half hardy, and cacao is tender. In SE Brazil. And I now need to re-calibrate what I thought of as tender and hardy, even in a climate like that of So. Calif. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a From clawler9@cox.net Sat Nov 27 17:59:08 2010 Message-Id: <20101127165408.HMZ8S.233359.imail@fed1rmwml44> From: Subject: Pacific BX 262 Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:54:08 -0500 Hi Dell How about 27, 28, & 30. Jeff Biletnikoff 25227 Hereford Dr. Ramona, Ca., 92065 ---- Dell Sherk wrote: > Dear All, > > The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. > > If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY > at . Include "BX 262" in the subject line. > > Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not > specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, > too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, > first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, > included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) > (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, > please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing > and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. > > PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A > SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. > > Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not > members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO > MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage > of future offers such as this. Go to our website: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... > > If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors > will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), > please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: > > Dell Sherk > 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. > New Hope, PA, 18938 > USA > > Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. > > I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. > IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! > > > From Michael Mace: > > Amaryllis belladonna hybrid seed: > > Except where noted, the parent bulbs all came from Les Hannibal's garden in > Sacramento.  The flowers were all open pollinated, so I can't guarantee what > you'll get.  Some will be crosses with other nearby plants, others will be > clones of the parents.  In particular, seeds from whites may turn out to be > pink, and the offspring from pinks can be white.  But I promise that you'll > get an interesting selection. > > You can find photos of most of these flowers on the PBS wiki, here: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Amaryllis > > 1. Mixed pinks: If you want a variety of Amaryllis to play with, this is the > choice for you.  Open pollinated seeds from 20 or 30 different pink > Amaryllis hybrids, ranging from light to dark pink.  Given the complex > genetics of Amaryllis, some of these flowers will be white. > 2. Mixed whites: Open pollinated seeds from white flowers.  Most will be > white, some will be pink. > 3. MBQ 01   A very robust plant with dark pink flowers, nicely radial.  From > the old BioQuest nursery.  One of my overall best Amaryllis bulbs. > 4. MLH 01   White flowers with a pale yellow center.  The closest I have to > a pure white.  This one doesn't bloom often. > 5. MLH 03   White flowers with a deep yellow throat.  Fairly radial form. > 6. MLH 05   Very light pink lines in the outer third of the flower, white > center.  Wide flowers with few ruffles. > 7. MLH 07   Pale pink veins with a white star in the center. > 8. MLH 09   Mid-pink without a lot of veining, and a yellow center.  Broad > petals and ruffles.  Radial. > 9. MLH 12   Light pink with a white star at the center.  Few lines and no > ruffles.  Light scent. > 10. MLH 14   Streaky pink petals, dark at the tips, with a pale yellow > center.  No ruffles.  Ages to solid pink. > 11. MLH 17   Fairly dark pink with darker veins and yellow center.  Average > size, few ruffles.  Not radial. > 12. MLH 18   Medium pink aging to deep mauvey pink.  White center.  Very > radial, flowers not particularly large.  A dependable bloomer. > 13. MLH 19   This one is very robust.  Very large and tall inflorescence, > large mid-pink flowers with ruffles.  White centers.  Not radial. > 14. MLH 27   Ruffled mid-pink flowers with white center, aging to solid > pink.  Not radial. > 15. MLH 30   Nicely radial.  White flowers with yellow-orange centers.  > Slight ruffles, fairly good bud count.  Flowers are a little bit undersized. > 16. MLH 33   Flowers start cream colored (very pale pink veins on the outer > quarter of the flower), and then age to solid pink.  The inflorescence > produces a berries & cream effect.  Not radial. > 17. MLH 34   Flowers start pale pink on the outer parts of the petals, with > a white center.  They age to dark pink in the center, creating a striking > bullseye effect.  Not radial.  This one doesn't bloom often, so if you want > seeds of it, take them now. > 18. MLH 39   White with a yellow throat.  Fairly radial, but inflorescence > leans toward the sun. > 19. MLH 51   White flowers with very narrow pink edges on the petals; a > picotee effect. > 20. MM 01-06   This is a cross of MLH 18 x MLH 04 > 21. MM 02-04   (MLH 24 x MLH 04).  White with a yellow center.  Fairly broad > petals, not very radial. > 22. MM 2010A   Extremely radial white with a few ruffles and yellow > centers.  Sorry, only a few seeds.  MLH 30 is similar. > 23. MM 99-14A   (MLH 03 x MLH 19).  This cross has produced some great > plants.  This particular one has a huge number of buds -- about 30 of them.  > Flowers are lightly veined pink with yellow centers.  Photo: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/83542459@N00/5177291798/ > 24. MM 99-16A   (MLH 03 x MLH 18).  Clear vivid magenta flowers with white > centers and unusually wide petals.  A nicely radial flower head.  Photo:  > http://www.flickr.com/photos/83542459@N00/5177292176/in/photostream/ > > Nerine seeds Like the Amaryllis, these are open pollinated, so you may get > surprises.  Photos here: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NerineHybrids > > 25. Nerine sarniensis ex. A Dry Garden   Found this one in a nursery in > Oakland, CA.  Magenta, floriferous and reliable.  Ruffled and slightly > asymmetrical.  It was labeled as Nerine sarniensis, but it's probably not a > pure sarniensis selection.  A nice plant, though. > 26. Nerine 'Kenilworth'   Salmon colored, very radial, vigorous. > > From Jerry Lehman: > > 27. Bulbs of Zephyranthes “Pink Rainlily” not so vigorous in clumping and > blooming, but large bulbs and large dark ponk flowers – when it flowers > 28. Small bulbs of Eucharis amazonica (E. grandiflora?) not a prolific > number of flowers at one time, but reliable come late summer/fall. Fragrant. > 29. Small tubers of Amorphophallus rivieri var konjac > 30. Bulbs of Zephyranthes ‘White Rainlily’ A good vigorous grower and > clumper – good number of white flowers during summer and fall. Originally > sold to me as Z. candida. > > From Alberto Grossi: > > 31. Seed of Urginea maritima > > Thank you, Mike, Jerry, and Alberto !! > > Best wishes, > Dell > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ksayce@willapabay.org Sat Nov 27 21:37:12 2010 Message-Id: <396C8301-5CBA-4006-87EA-239E6331250A@willapabay.org> From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: BX 262 Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 18:37:03 -0800 Dell, I am interested in the following seeds.\ Kathleen Kathleen Sayce PO Box 91 Nahcotta WA 98637 2. Mixed whites: 3. MBQ 01 4. MLH 01 5. MLH 03 From dkramb@gmail.com Sun Nov 28 11:05:02 2010 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: membership renewal Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 11:05:01 -0500 Is there any talk of PBS offering a cheaper, greener membership level? One where the newsletters/bulletins are emailed electronically rather than printed, published, and mailed via USPS? I ask because it's that time of year to renew my membership... and it'd be really cool to have this option. Honestly speaking I don't save my newsletters/bulletins from any society (except for the Aril Society's yearbooks which are just too awesome for words). I used to try to save everything, but it became a burden, and a downright mess in my household. But if I had them electronically in PDF format, well that would be another story (one with a happy ending!). Dennis in Cincinnati From adam14113@ameritech.net Sun Nov 28 12:33:47 2010 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: membership renewal Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 11:33:46 -0600 You'd still have the problem of electronic stgorage, defragging, compacting, putting them on CDs and stacking them, problems of compatibility on playback, that is, if you wanted to play them back and changed your computer system. Ever hear of Beta max? 16mm film, Polaroid film--cost of transcription? Or, albumen prints? Might be worth a discussion somewhere down the line. 'Green' doesn't solve this problem, merely moves it into the future or another place-- from my point of view-- but again, might be worth discussing. Do we have a librarian or museum curator hande. Thy deal with these issues all the time. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Kramb" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 10:05 AM Subject: [pbs] membership renewal > Is there any talk of PBS offering a cheaper, greener membership level? > One > where the newsletters/bulletins are emailed electronically rather than > printed, published, and mailed via USPS? > > I ask because it's that time of year to renew my membership... and it'd be > really cool to have this option. Honestly speaking I don't save my > newsletters/bulletins from any society (except for the Aril Society's > yearbooks which are just too awesome for words). I used to try to save > everything, but it became a burden, and a downright mess in my household. > > But if I had them electronically in PDF format, well that would be another > story (one with a happy ending!). > > Dennis in Cincinnati > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From hansennursery@coosnet.com Sun Nov 28 12:56:43 2010 Message-Id: <08227DE0CC354B80A4A25EFA7C960C00@homed4aec9b2d8> From: "Robin Hansen" Subject: membership renewal Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 09:48:20 -0800 Dennis, I'm glad you brought this subject up. Emerald Chapter, NARGS, e-mails its newsletters in color to nearly all members. However, some of our older members without computers must receive a paper copy, which is in black and white. I e-mail my catalog to most customers, but there are those for whom, for whatever reason, need to receive paper copies. I have discovered that there are still a lot of us in very rural areas who cannot get high-speed internet and must rely on dial-up. Cable is out. I don't have a television and cannot justify the expense. When and if Frontier provides the DSL option, I will probably sign up, although it irks me no end because since they took over from Verizon, the dial-up service has seriously deteriorated. I hear DSL has as well, if they are in rural areas. Our ISP has made formal complaint to no avail. PBS has some options but they are not viable for everyone. Smaller press runs cost more, generally speaking. By the way, I'm not speaking for PBS on this - I've based it on our experience with NARGS Emerald Chapter. And I could still be wrong... I, for one, prefer paper. I do not have unlimited capacity for storing electronic files. In looking up a subject stored on paper, I stumble across others and can refresh my memory or answer a number of questions at the same time. There is really a misunderstanding of the word "green". Coming form an accounting background, the powers that be would have us believe that "green" is good. It is not always. An electric car, for example, does reduce the use of oil and other oil-based products, but it still has a high consumption of energy. It has to be recharged. Where does that electricity come from? From coal-fired plants, from hydro power, and other sources that are do not regenerate. Wind farms are not the most efficient source and they are a serious detriment to animals and the environment. Computer manufacturing uses up resources that are difficult to recover, and the search and mining for rare earth minerals can be devastating. Paper can last 200 or more years. There is serious debate about how long a CD lasts, probably a few years at most, with proper storage. Microfiche lasts about 100 years. Then searching computer archives a hundred years from now is quite likely to be problematic. The US government has many years of Social Security records on tape that it no longer has the equipment to read in any large capacity, if at all. At least I can recycle my nursery pots and poly greenhouse covering, and my used soil mix. And I can pass on my paper journals to those who are interested, including, to my amazement, a daughter and a grandson who have discovered a serious interest in gardening. For those who are willing and able to receive electronic media, I say have at it. For others, it's problematic. One final note - and perhaps Jane McGary and Jane Merryman can answer this one. The setup for printing a paper catalog differs clearly from setup for e-mailing. Would this be a problem? Robin Hansen Hansen Nursery briefly clear and sunny and 33 F ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Kramb To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 8:05 AM Subject: [pbs] membership renewal Is there any talk of PBS offering a cheaper, greener membership level? One where the newsletters/bulletins are emailed electronically rather than printed, published, and mailed via USPS? I ask because it's that time of year to renew my membership... and it'd be really cool to have this option. Honestly speaking I don't save my newsletters/bulletins from any society (except for the Aril Society's yearbooks which are just too awesome for words). I used to try to save everything, but it became a burden, and a downright mess in my household. But if I had them electronically in PDF format, well that would be another story (one with a happy ending!). Dennis in Cincinnati _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3270 - Release Date: 11/21/10 Internal Virus Database is out of date. From SRS0=lbaEl2=S5=johnlonsdale.net=john@eigbox.net Sun Nov 28 13:27:03 2010 Message-Id: <007801cb8f25$76c4c500$644e4f00$@net> From: "John T Lonsdale" Subject: membership renewal - 'e' option Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 12:55:36 -0500 I think this is a great idea. I had a discussion recently with Ian Young of the SRGC and they are thinking about providing exactly such an option. At a lower subscription price and with much easier storage and accessing of materials it appeals far more to me than getting paper communications. The price of electronic storage is now so cheap/GB it really isn't an issue and storing things on CDs is a thing of the past. Best, John John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 315 571 9232 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From crinum@libero.it Sun Nov 28 13:17:14 2010 Message-Id: <11878511.134691290967609135.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> From: Alberto Grossi Subject: R: Re: membership renewal Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 19:06:49 +0100 (CET) Why not as available PDF to download, stored on PBS archives, available every time one needs it? A lot of associations have similar way to spread their magazines! Alberto Italy From adam14113@ameritech.net Sun Nov 28 13:11:08 2010 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: membership renewal Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 12:11:06 -0600 Thank you for rounding out and extending my position, (This from a guy who is planning to throw out and recycle an entire set (missing one) of the ASI Yearbook. WiIl check to see if our local library wants it, first. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Hansen" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] membership renewal > Dennis, > > I'm glad you brought this subject up. Emerald Chapter, NARGS, e-mails its > newsletters in color to nearly all members. However, some of our older > members without computers must receive a paper copy, which is in black and > white. > > I e-mail my catalog to most customers, but there are those for whom, for > whatever reason, need to receive paper copies. I have discovered that > there are still a lot of us in very rural areas who cannot get high-speed > internet and must rely on dial-up. > > Cable is out. I don't have a television and cannot justify the expense. > When and if Frontier provides the DSL option, I will probably sign up, > although it irks me no end because since they took over from Verizon, the > dial-up service has seriously deteriorated. I hear DSL has as well, if > they are in rural areas. Our ISP has made formal complaint to no avail. > > PBS has some options but they are not viable for everyone. Smaller press > runs cost more, generally speaking. By the way, I'm not speaking for PBS > on this - I've based it on our experience with NARGS Emerald Chapter. And > I could still be wrong... > > I, for one, prefer paper. I do not have unlimited capacity for storing > electronic files. In looking up a subject stored on paper, I stumble > across others and can refresh my memory or answer a number of questions at > the same time. > > There is really a misunderstanding of the word "green". Coming form an > accounting background, the powers that be would have us believe that > "green" is good. It is not always. An electric car, for example, does > reduce the use of oil and other oil-based products, but it still has a > high consumption of energy. It has to be recharged. Where does that > electricity come from? From coal-fired plants, from hydro power, and > other sources that are do not regenerate. Wind farms are not the most > efficient source and they are a serious detriment to animals and the > environment. Computer manufacturing uses up resources that are difficult > to recover, and the search and mining for rare earth minerals can be > devastating. > > Paper can last 200 or more years. There is serious debate about how long > a CD lasts, probably a few years at most, with proper storage. Microfiche > lasts about 100 years. Then searching computer archives a hundred years > from now is quite likely to be problematic. The US government has many > years of Social Security records on tape that it no longer has the > equipment to read in any large capacity, if at all. > > At least I can recycle my nursery pots and poly greenhouse covering, and > my used soil mix. And I can pass on my paper journals to those who are > interested, including, to my amazement, a daughter and a grandson who have > discovered a serious interest in gardening. > > For those who are willing and able to receive electronic media, I say have > at it. For others, it's problematic. One final note - and perhaps Jane > McGary and Jane Merryman can answer this one. The setup for printing a > paper catalog differs clearly from setup for e-mailing. Would this be a > problem? > > Robin Hansen > Hansen Nursery > briefly clear and sunny and 33 F > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dennis Kramb > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 8:05 AM > Subject: [pbs] membership renewal > > > Is there any talk of PBS offering a cheaper, greener membership level? > One > where the newsletters/bulletins are emailed electronically rather than > printed, published, and mailed via USPS? > > I ask because it's that time of year to renew my membership... and it'd > be > really cool to have this option. Honestly speaking I don't save my > newsletters/bulletins from any society (except for the Aril Society's > yearbooks which are just too awesome for words). I used to try to save > everything, but it became a burden, and a downright mess in my household. > > But if I had them electronically in PDF format, well that would be > another > story (one with a happy ending!). > > Dennis in Cincinnati > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3270 - Release Date: 11/21/10 > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From tjgillam@hughes.net Sun Nov 28 13:24:43 2010 Message-Id: <1141105189.40152.1290968681405.JavaMail.mail@webmail04> From: TOMMIE GILLAM Subject: R: Re: membership renewal Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 18:24:41 +0000 (GMT) The Gesneriad Hybridizers Association (GHA) a small organization, emails PDF copies of their newletter, and as mentioned in regards to another organization, black and white paper copies are mailed to those who prefer a hard copy. The price in subscription email vs snail mail is negligible, $2 per year less for the email. From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun Nov 28 16:41:50 2010 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Electronic membership Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:05:41 -0600 Dear Friends, Just FYI... SIGNA ( Species iris Group of North America, but actually International) recently introduced an electronic membership at 1/2 the regular cost*. This E-membership includes all the benefits except printed and mailed materials. They have yet to issue a newsletter since this option has been available so.... tune in later. If this interests anybody, take a look at http://signa.org/index.pl?Membership Best Jim W. ps The 2009 Seed Exchange will be available in about a month or less. * even less - almost 1/3 the cost for International subscribers. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Sun Nov 28 14:42:38 2010 Message-Id: From: "J. Agoston" Subject: membership renewal - 'e' option Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 20:42:36 +0100 Good I joined SIGNA only because they provided e-subscription. (And because I like Iris :P) :) 2010/11/28 John T Lonsdale > I think this is a great idea. I had a discussion recently with Ian Young > of > the SRGC and they are thinking about providing exactly such an option. At > a > lower subscription price and with much easier storage and accessing of > materials it appeals far more to me than getting paper communications. The > price of electronic storage is now so cheap/GB it really isn't an issue and > storing things on CDs is a thing of the past. > > Best, > > John > > John T Lonsdale PhD > 407 Edgewood Drive, > Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA > > Home: 610 594 9232 > Cell: 484 678 9856 > Fax: 315 571 9232 > > Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net > > USDA Zone 6b > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Protect the environment! Please think twice before printing this e-mail. || Védjük környezetünket, csak szükség esetén nyomtasd ki ezt a levelet! From rob.blomquist@gmail.com Sun Nov 28 15:01:26 2010 Message-Id: From: Robert Blomquist Subject: membership renewal - 'e' option Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 12:01:22 -0800 One of my local clubs sends out newsletters this way and its really not that big a deal. The can be stored as I do on a RAID 0 file server or up to the Cloud at a place like Dropbox.com. There are other options for longterm easy storage, and I am quite sure PDF is here to stay. On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 9:55 AM, John T Lonsdale wrote: > I think this is a great idea.  I had a discussion recently with Ian Young of > the SRGC and they are thinking about providing exactly such an option.  At a > lower subscription price and with much easier storage and accessing of > materials it appeals far more to me than getting paper communications.  The > price of electronic storage is now so cheap/GB it really isn't an issue and > storing things on CDs is a thing of the past. > > Best, > > John > > John T Lonsdale PhD > 407 Edgewood Drive, > Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA > > Home: 610 594 9232 > Cell: 484 678 9856 > Fax: 315 571 9232 > > Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net > > USDA Zone 6b > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Nov 29 00:33:19 2010 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Electronic membership - updated Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 17:17:59 -0600 Dear Friends, ps Make that "The 2010 Seed Exchange" Sorry JIm -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From gmaculata@gmail.com Sun Nov 28 23:12:24 2010 Message-Id: From: Glen Lord Subject: Eriospermum sources Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 23:12:22 -0500 Hello all, I have been looking for sources to procure Erio bulbs and have been striking out, other thank Steve Hammer. I have gotten the few he has available and am looking for others. Does anyone have suggestions? Thanks Glen -- Glen From awilson@avonia.com Sun Nov 28 23:44:56 2010 Message-Id: <0213C2F1BF3541F6961D25A3B22C5611@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: Eriospermum sources Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 20:45:39 -0800 I don't know of any other sources. Maybe Dylan Hannon has something on these lines? Steven does grow some nice specimens. How about trying seed? Andrew San Diego Hello all, I have been looking for sources to procure Erio bulbs and have been striking out, other thank Steve Hammer. I have gotten the few he has available and am looking for others. Does anyone have suggestions? Thanks Glen Glen From jshields104@comcast.net Mon Nov 29 08:44:19 2010 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20101129084224.05b17bf0@mail.comcast.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Haemanthus Hardiness Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 08:44:02 -0500 I've posted this inquiry a couple other places -- SRGC Forum and the I.B.S. Members list -- and got a couple responses. I'd like to ask this group as well: do you grow any Haemanthus in the ground where you garden? Which species? How cold/wet does it get at your place? My previous results are summarized in my blog at: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Blogs/Garden/index.html#nov28.10 Regards, Jim S. ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Mon Nov 29 09:12:50 2010 Message-Id: <410-2201011129141245562@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: Haemanthus Hardiness Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 09:12:45 -0500 I'd like to ask this group as > well: do you grow any Haemanthus in the ground where you garden? Which > species? How cold/wet does it get at your place? > We have a few H. montanus in the garden in northeast North Carolina, Zone 8a.. Hot, humid summer, wet spring and winter. Can't say if they will prove to be long time survivors yet. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 8 From jshields@indy.net Mon Nov 29 09:36:08 2010 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20101129093506.05b17e80@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Haemanthus Hardiness Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 09:35:59 -0500 Hi Mark, Thanks for the note. When did you plant them? Jim At 09:12 AM 11/29/2010 -0500, you wrote: >We have a few H. montanus in the garden in northeast North Carolina, Zone >8a.. Hot, humid summer, wet spring and winter. Can't say if they will >prove to be long time survivors yet. > >Mark Mazer >Hertford, North Carolina USA >Zone 8 ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Mon Nov 29 09:42:33 2010 Message-Id: <410-220101112914422993@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: Haemanthus Hardiness Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 09:42:29 -0500 > > Thanks for the note. When did you plant them? > Late fall of 2009. Lows so far, 13F, minimal ground frost, just a couple of brief snow events. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 8 From jshields@indy.net Mon Nov 29 09:51:41 2010 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20101129095011.05b17d38@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Haemanthus Hardiness Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 09:51:32 -0500 I would think they could take that easily. The bulbs are completely buried, I take it? Had they bloomed before they were plants in the ground? Jim At 09:42 AM 11/29/2010 -0500, you wrote: > > > > Thanks for the note. When did you plant them? > > > >Late fall of 2009. Lows so far, 13F, minimal ground frost, just a couple >of brief snow events. > >Mark Mazer >Hertford, North Carolina USA >Zone 8 ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 From plicht@berkeley.edu Mon Nov 29 09:58:35 2010 Message-Id: <4CF3BF93.5040902@berkeley.edu> From: Paul Licht Subject: Haemanthus Hardiness Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 06:58:27 -0800 We have a diverse collection in the ground here in Berkeley and I don't think we've lost any to frost in my 7 years here. It gets down to mid-20s in the Garden and the leaves get very stiff. I'm sure this doesn't approach the midwest/east coast. Paul Licht, Director Univ. California Botanical Garden 200 Centennial Drive Berkeley, CA 94720 (510)-643-8999 http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu On 11/29/2010 6:12 AM, MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER wrote: > I'd like to ask this group as >> well: do you grow any Haemanthus in the ground where you garden? Which >> species? How cold/wet does it get at your place? >> > We have a few H. montanus in the garden in northeast North Carolina, Zone > 8a.. Hot, humid summer, wet spring and winter. Can't say if they will > prove to be long time survivors yet. > > Mark Mazer > Hertford, North Carolina USA > Zone 8 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jshields@indy.net Mon Nov 29 10:19:42 2010 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20101129101108.05b17fc8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Haemanthus Hardiness Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 10:19:32 -0500 Paul, That's very interesting. As I recall from my grad school days there 50 years ago, it can get rather nippy in Berkeley in winter. I'm not ready to try Haemanthus outdoors in the ground here in Indiana just yet, but I think folks in zone 7 should look into this notion. I'd suggest trying Haemanthus montanus first. If it survives a couple of winters, then try things like albiflos (cheap and common), coccineus (relatively common), and humilis hirsutus (probably pretty cold-hardy). Plant the bulbs completely in the ground, with the tip of the bulb just at or slightly below the ground surface. I'd start off with them in a very well-drained soil. Jim Shields in central Indiana USA At 06:58 AM 11/29/2010 -0800, you wrote: >We have a diverse collection in the ground here in Berkeley and I don't >think we've lost any to frost in my 7 years here. It gets down to mid-20s >in the Garden and the leaves get very stiff. I'm sure this doesn't >approach the midwest/east coast. > >Paul Licht, Director >Univ. California Botanical Garden >200 Centennial Drive >Berkeley, CA 94720 >(510)-643-8999 >http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Mon Nov 29 10:21:25 2010 Message-Id: <410-2201011129152120812@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: Haemanthus Hardiness Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 10:21:20 -0500 > > I would think they could take that easily. The bulbs are completely > buried, I take it? Had they bloomed before they were plants in the ground? The H. montanus bulbs are completely buried in a well drained, raised, sandy bed and are not blooming size. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 8a Massonia echinata in bloom in the greenhouse From jshields104@comcast.net Mon Nov 29 10:40:24 2010 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20101129103239.05b18258@mail.comcast.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Seed from Ismene Festalis Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 10:40:14 -0500 Someone recently sent me a seed from Hymenocallis Festalis, which would be an Ismene according to current thinking. I've forgotten who sent me that seed, so I want to report in: The seed was planted on the surface of my gritty mix in a deep but narrow clay pot. The pot is in a heated lean-to type glasshouse with thermostats set at around 55°F (ca. 13 C). The seed has germinated, and I'm watering it regularly. It's now firmly rooted, but there is no sign of a leaf shoot developing so far. I'd appreciate it if the sender of this seed would get in touch with me please. Jim S. ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 From adam14113@ameritech.net Mon Nov 29 12:27:46 2010 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Haemanthus Hardiness Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 11:21:02 -0600 I've killed a few Haemanthus coccineus at 0° buried 6-8 "down, no mulch, no cover. I haven't tried them closer in to the house. Chicago area, northwest side USDA 5a in Glenview ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.E. Shields" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 8:51 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Haemanthus Hardiness >I would think they could take that easily. The bulbs are completely >buried, I take it? Had they bloomed before they were plants in the ground? > > Jim > > At 09:42 AM 11/29/2010 -0500, you wrote: >> > >> > Thanks for the note. When did you plant them? >> > >> >>Late fall of 2009. Lows so far, 13F, minimal ground frost, just a couple >>of brief snow events. >> >>Mark Mazer >>Hertford, North Carolina USA >>Zone 8 > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From idavide@sbcglobal.net Mon Nov 29 12:44:53 2010 Message-Id: <959641.31156.qm@web81005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Seed from Ismene Festalis Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 09:44:51 -0800 (PST) Hi Jim,   I'm the one who sent you the seed.  My xfestalis produced two seeds this year; I sent you one, and planted the other myself.  Alas, a bird plucked mine out and devoured it before it germinated.   I'm glad you wrote about it -- I was wondering how it was progressing.  You have to be careful with the seedling now -- while it has rooted, this is its dormant time, and it can rot if kept too moist.  It won't leaf out until late spring - early summer.  At least, that's how my earlier xfestalis seedlings progressed.   I don't know how long it will take to get to blooming size; mine have not yet reached that size.  I'm quite anxious to see it flower -- whether it is true to type, especially as xfestalis is supposed to be a sterile hybrid. David E. From tony@plantdelights.com Mon Nov 29 12:52:12 2010 Message-Id: <1C7B8620606048389355548679E8454B@pdn.local> From: "Tony Avent" Subject: Haemanthus Hardiness Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 12:51:09 -0500 Jim, etal: Here are the results of our haemanthus trials. Did not survive winters here Haemanthus albiflos Haemanthus barkarae Haemanthus carneus Haemanthus carneus dwarf Haemanthus coccineus Haemanthus coccineus dark red stripe form Haemanthus deformis Haemanthus humilis ssp. hirsutus Haemanthus humilis ssp. humilis Cathcart E. Cape Form Haemanthus montanus Haemanthus montanus A1SA-057 Haemanthus pauculifolius Haemanthus sanguineus Alive since 2004 Haemanthus humilis ssp. humilis hairy form Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of J.E. Shields Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 10:20 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Haemanthus Hardiness Paul, That's very interesting. As I recall from my grad school days there 50 years ago, it can get rather nippy in Berkeley in winter. I'm not ready to try Haemanthus outdoors in the ground here in Indiana just yet, but I think folks in zone 7 should look into this notion. I'd suggest trying Haemanthus montanus first. If it survives a couple of winters, then try things like albiflos (cheap and common), coccineus (relatively common), and humilis hirsutus (probably pretty cold-hardy). Plant the bulbs completely in the ground, with the tip of the bulb just at or slightly below the ground surface. I'd start off with them in a very well-drained soil. Jim Shields in central Indiana USA At 06:58 AM 11/29/2010 -0800, you wrote: >We have a diverse collection in the ground here in Berkeley and I don't >think we've lost any to frost in my 7 years here. It gets down to >mid-20s in the Garden and the leaves get very stiff. I'm sure this >doesn't approach the midwest/east coast. > >Paul Licht, Director >Univ. California Botanical Garden >200 Centennial Drive >Berkeley, CA 94720 >(510)-643-8999 >http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 From davidxvictor@btinternet.com Mon Nov 29 14:22:37 2010 Message-Id: <62281.51045.qm@smtp821.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> From: David Victor Subject: Ungernia sewerzowii Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 19:22:29 +0000 Dear all, I have posted to the WIKI some photos of this species in flower taken by me in the Tien Shan in July 2008. On this journey I saw it several times at various altitudes, although travelling a very similar route three years previously I had totally failed to see it. It is a striking plant, with very variable flower colours, but almost unknown in cultivation. I don't find this particularly surprising as I have had seed several times and always failed to germinate them. However, this year my luck seems to be turning, as I do have some early signs of germination on seed collected fairly recently. Whether it is my technique or the freshness of the seed which determines success I don't know. However, from what I have heard from the few people that I have traced who have grown this plant, flowering it is even more difficult than germinating the seed. For those who may be interested further, I did write an article on the plant and my encounters with it for the RHS "The Plantsman" magazine, which was published in June 2009. Best regards, David Victor From eez55@earthlink.net Mon Nov 29 21:28:51 2010 Message-Id: <380-220101123022841937@earthlink.net> From: "Eugene Zielinski" Subject: Hesperocallis - Revisited Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 21:28:41 -0500 Several months ago I asked this group about the growth cycle of Hesperocallis undulata. Well...I got my answer during a visit to Anza-Borrego State Natural Area (Park) in late September. I was talking to a volunteer at the visitors center, and he said that the plants were just coming up, in response to the heavy rains the park had experienced recently. He noted that the plants grow through the winter and usually start flowering in February. (He also said they were one of his favorite flowers.) I never got to the area where the plants were; otherwise I might have taken some pictures. Eugene Zielinski Augusta, GA USA From daverpoole@hotmail.com Tue Nov 30 04:45:25 2010 Message-Id: From: Dave Poole Subject: Haemanthus Hardiness Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 09:40:22 +0000 Currently I have a few H. montanus which I raised from seed and have been growing permanently outside for a few years. We had a 'once in 30 year winter' last year and temps here fell to -4C on several occasions with daytimes staying below 3C for 5 consecutive days. They survived that easily, but no flowers this year. This winter has started as though it is going to be a second 'once in 30 yrs ...' (!!!) and the leaves are still alive, but a rather dark, 'greasy' green. Between 1999 and 2008 I had H. albiflos growing permanently outside and during that period, temps only rarely fell to around -2C for very short periods in winter. It didn't receive any special treatment and during very wet winters, the roots almost completely rotted away. By early May the plants would be rooting strongly again and the growth flowered regularly in June each year. Maybe if I'd added plenty of grit when planting, albiflos would have done even better, but it's not exactly the most treasured or rarest of plants and it was originally an offset that was just pushed into the ground. From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Tue Nov 30 05:08:06 2010 Message-Id: From: "J. Agoston" Subject: off - Asparagus Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 11:08:04 +0100 I'm looking for somebody who could identify me a hardy Asparagus. It grows 2-3 feet (60-90 cm) tall, looks like a hardy version of A. myriocladus (maybe a mutant of A. officinalis), but really small phyllocladiums (3-5 mm). Plant looks blue-gray because of being waxy, getting the wax off it is dark green. I don't know if I have taken a picture of it. Hardy in Z5a. Thank you for your help in advance! Jan Hungary -- Protect the environment! Please think twice before printing this e-mail. || Védjük környezetünket, csak szükség esetén nyomtasd ki ezt a levelet! From jonathan.knisely@yale.edu Tue Nov 30 07:23:36 2010 Message-Id: From: "Knisely, Jonathan" Subject: Haemanthus hardiness Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 07:23:33 -0500 So, Tony...are all these Haemanthus species personally frost-killed three times over? Once or twice wouldn't confirm it for you, I understand. Tongue in cheek, Jonathan Knisely New Haven, CT USDA 6a On 11/29/10 1:23 PM, "Pbs-Request@Lists. Org" wrote: Message: 6 Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 12:51:09 -0500 From: "Tony Avent" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Subject: Re: [pbs] Haemanthus Hardiness Message-ID: <1C7B8620606048389355548679E8454B@pdn.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jim, etal: Here are the results of our haemanthus trials. Did not survive winters here Haemanthus albiflos Haemanthus barkarae Haemanthus carneus Haemanthus carneus dwarf Haemanthus coccineus Haemanthus coccineus dark red stripe form Haemanthus deformis Haemanthus humilis ssp. hirsutus Haemanthus humilis ssp. humilis Cathcart E. Cape Form Haemanthus montanus Haemanthus montanus A1SA-057 Haemanthus pauculifolius Haemanthus sanguineus Alive since 2004 Haemanthus humilis ssp. humilis hairy form Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent