From dkramb@gmail.com Sat Jan 1 12:16:38 2011 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: SIGNA Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 12:16:36 -0500 Happy New Year, PBSers! I just wanted to mention the SIGNA seed sale is now underway, http://www.signa.org/index.pl?Seed2010 Only SIGNA members may participate in the sale, so be sure to add at least a $6 e-Membership to your cart, if you're not already a member. Seeds in short supply sell out quickly, as they tend to be rare species that are highly sought after. So take care to order plenty of substitutes, or at least bear it in mind! Of special note are the Iris ensata seeds of Russian provenance (Alexeeva #10). These flowers have unusual, creamy white signals, http://www.signa.org/Iensata.jpg I think these will be popular, and luckily these seeds are plentiful. Dennis in Cincinnati (SIGNA webmaster) From fierycloud2002@yahoo.com.tw Sun Jan 2 00:33:24 2011 Message-Id: <431169.48696.qm@web74208.mail.tp2.yahoo.com> From: fierycloud2002 Subject: The Plant Variety Protection of Japan Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 13:33:21 +0800 (CST) Hello: http://www.hinsyu.maff.go.jp/vips/cmm/apCMM110.aspx?MOSS=1 There are hybrids which is registed and with picture. But the hippeastrum hybrids seem all breed by 2 nurseries. Miyake(http://www009.upp.so-net.ne.jp/miyake-nursery/index.htm) and Komoriya. They both don't ship overseas at the time I asked, but i don't if it is now. Su-hong-Ciao Taiwan. From jacobknecht@gmail.com Sun Jan 2 05:38:32 2011 Message-Id: From: Jacob Knecht Subject: Growing Hippeastrum calyptratum on an epiphytic mount Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 02:38:30 -0800 Greetings bulbophiles, About 8 months ago I decided to mount a Hippeastrum calyptratum seedling. Although it is a naturally epiphytic species, I have never heard of any being grown in cultivation out of pots. I decided it was time I experiment growing one epiphytically. I strapped it to a piece of virgin cork oak bark with fishing line and added a thin layer coco-fibre atop the roots. I placed it inside a "greenhouse" of sorts (actually a growth chamber designed for growing orchids, see: http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/sets/72157624945656449/). The growing conditions align with what orchid growers consider intermediate temperatures. It has been receiving partial sun (at least 2500 foot candles) and high humidity (always above 80% r/h) with decent air movement. I have been more than pleased with how well it has responded. It has grown dozens of new roots, many of which have attached themselves firmly to the cork. The roots love being in open air and this is not surprising because I have found that when this species is grown in a pot, it concentrates its root mass within the very top layer of the medium. Pamianthe peruviana (also an epiphytic bulb) grows in a similar way. It is still a few years from blooming size, but I am so happy to see it doing so well mounted that I thought that I should share my success here in case others would like to try this method. It is really nice not to have to worry about root or basal plate rot now. The mounted plant can never be over-watered. I have added some more information and pictures to the wiki of my mounted seedling. See: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HippeastrumSpeciesOne#calyptratum The roots appear green because there is algae growing on them. Also, when this picture was taken the roots were still moist, exaggerating this. Hau'oli makahiki hou / Happy new year! Jacob Knecht From dkramb@gmail.com Sun Jan 2 11:09:33 2011 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Growing Hippeastrum calyptratum on an epiphytic mount Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 11:09:31 -0500 Plant people are crazy!!!! And also, I'm totally jealous of that orchid chamber. And also, that Hippy is unbelievable!! Thanks for the great pics. I just planted my 11 Hippys in regular boring dumb pots. Actually that's not true, several of them are potted semi-hydroponically this year, like I my orchids. I bet they love it! Dennis in Cincinnati where winter weather has returned On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 5:38 AM, Jacob Knecht wrote: > Greetings bulbophiles, > > About 8 months ago I decided to mount a Hippeastrum calyptratum > seedling. Although it is a naturally epiphytic species, I have never > heard of any being grown in cultivation out of pots. I decided it was > time I experiment growing one epiphytically. I strapped it to a piece > of virgin cork oak bark with fishing line and added a thin layer > coco-fibre atop the roots. I placed it inside a "greenhouse" of sorts > (actually a growth chamber designed for growing orchids, see: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/sets/72157624945656449/). The > growing conditions align with what orchid growers consider > intermediate temperatures. It has been receiving partial sun (at > least 2500 foot candles) and high humidity (always above 80% r/h) with > decent air movement. > > I have been more than pleased with how well it has responded. It has > grown dozens of new roots, many of which have attached themselves > firmly to the cork. The roots love being in open air and this is not > surprising because I have found that when this species is grown in a > pot, it concentrates its root mass within the very top layer of the > medium. Pamianthe peruviana (also an epiphytic bulb) grows in a > similar way. > > It is still a few years from blooming size, but I am so happy to see > it doing so well mounted that I thought that I should share my success > here in case others would like to try this method. It is really nice > not to have to worry about root or basal plate rot now. The mounted > plant can never be over-watered. > > I have added some more information and pictures to the wiki of my > mounted seedling. See: > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HippeastrumSpeciesOne#calyptratum > > The roots appear green because there is algae growing on them. Also, > when this picture was taken the roots were still moist, exaggerating > this. > > Hau'oli makahiki hou / Happy new year! > > Jacob Knecht > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From ksayce@willapabay.org Sun Jan 2 21:12:06 2011 Message-Id: <75679D85-67FD-425A-B7E9-D71D3BB863C8@willapabay.org> From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: cold frame for bulbs Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 17:58:05 -0800 The rains quit, the clouds rolled back, and we had 5 dry days in a row, so my new cold frame is done, and already occupied. I would not have done this without advice and lots of comments about frames elsewhere in PBS-land. Thanks, everyone, who took the time to comment on their own frames. I have achieved a clam-resistant, wind resistant, and insulated frame (cold resistant), 4 x 12 ft, for everything from 5 gallon buckets on down to 4 inch pots. Thanks, and Happy New Year, Kathleen Pacific Northwest Coast, zone 8, under a still-clear night sky From btankers@gmail.com Mon Jan 3 10:50:20 2011 Message-Id: From: Boyce Tankersley Subject: Additions To The Wiki Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 09:50:19 -0600 Thanks Josh: We frequently receive hybrids in flower for our winter displays from vendors that do not provide a scientific name. These pictures will help us try to sort them out. Much nicer to provide a name beyond "Hippeastrum hybrid" whenever possible. Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden From kjblack@pacbell.net Mon Jan 3 22:45:06 2011 Message-Id: <906233.83605.qm@web80403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: Boophone haemanthoides 3.5 years growth Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 19:45:03 -0800 (PST) I  purchased 5 Boophone haemanthoides seedlings 3.5 years ago in June 2007.  Thought I would post a comparison shot showing them then, and again last month, in Dec 2010:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5322665034/   Ken San Diego USDA zone 10  From profloran@roadrunner.com Mon Jan 3 22:53:10 2011 Message-Id: From: DAN TYSON Subject: Cold frame construction Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 19:53:02 -0800 Kathleen, I've become an even bigger fan of coldframes this year -- cramming rooted cuttings, tender succulents and other little guys in. Everything is thriving. Definitely the poor man's greenhouse. In many ways even better than one -- certainly takes up far less space. I want to expand next year. Would you be able to send along any photos showing us details and close-ups? Thanks, Dan Simi Valley Ca. Where we have had well over half our year's rainfall average in just over two weeks. From jonathanhutchinson@rhs.org.uk Tue Jan 4 09:04:46 2011 Message-Id: From: Subject: Urginea undulata Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 13:46:24 +0000 I would say that it and the other species are well worth growing for their quiet beauty and U. undulata has a number of forms where the leaf undulations are quite variable. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James Waddick Sent: 24 December 2010 06:21 To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Urginea undulata Dear friends, Does anyone grow or can anyone recommend U. undulata? There's a picture on the wiki from Jane McG. Has it ever bloomed for you? http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Urginea Kind of wild foliage. Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Jan 4 13:20:00 2011 Message-Id: <6846EEC4737146D487D062AF2F44C720@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Cold frame construction Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 13:20:44 -0500 For those of you who are regulars of long standing on this list, what follows is water long under the bridge. But since there seems to be renewed interest in cold frames, I’ll repeat here some of what I’ve said in the past. Keep in mind where I am: east coast Maryland where winter sun is bright and temperatures can drop to about 0º F (about -17 º C). In other words, this is not sunny California. For me, the main advantages of cold frames have been these: - they allow me to grow many winter-flowering plants which are impossible in the open garden - they allow me to control moisture - they provide a great place to winter marginally hardy plants - their economy is very appealing However, there is one huge disadvantage to cold frames in our climate: they require attention at least twice a day in the matter of opening and closing them. A couple of hours of January sunshine will cook the contents of a cold frame exposed to the sun (and for most purposes you definitely want the frame to have a sunny exposure). I have not tried the automatic openers recommended by some people. There is no evidence that the temperature inside my most protected cold frame has ever dropped below the freezing point. For instance, Zephyranthes grandiflora has gone through the winter in full leaf and never showed any sign of freeze damage. This year I’m trialing some Paphiopedilum and Kalanchoë – so far, so good. I cover the glass light with a double ply poly tarp whenever the outside temperature is below freezing. If the daytime temperatures are predicted to be above freezing, I take off the tarp and prop up the lights a bit to allow ventilation. If I have to be away for a few days, the tarp remains in place until I return. This has turned out to be a good place to grow marginally hardy aroids such as Biarum, Ambrosina, Arisarum and Arum along with a big range of other plants which produce active foliage during the winter. I’ve successfully flowered one of the Chilean Tropaeolum in this frame, and Nerine sarniensis has been in this frame since 2005 – although it grows well it is erratic about blooming. Give cold frames a try – you’ll probably be surprised with what you can get away with. But don’t blame me if your successes in a cold frame soon have you tearing up the yard and spending big bucks to install a greenhouse to house your rapidly expanding collections. You can see my first cold frame here: http://jimmckenney.com/a_protected_cold_frame.htm Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Jan 4 14:10:44 2011 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Cold frame construction Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 11:03:29 -0800 Dan asked, At 07:53 PM 1/3/2011, you wrote: > Kathleen, > I've become an even bigger fan of coldframes this > year -- cramming >rooted cuttings, tender succulents and other little guys in. > Everything is thriving. > > Definitely the poor man's greenhouse. > In many ways even better than one -- certainly > takes up far less >space. > > I want to expand next year. > Would you be able to send along any photos showing > us details and >close-ups? There is a chapter in the Timber Press book "Rock Garden Design and Construction" that covers coldframes, including photos and schematic drawings. I should probably hesitate to recommend it since I wrote it, but there it is. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From ang.por@alice.it Tue Jan 4 14:20:11 2011 Message-Id: <12d5278d5b8.ang.por@alice.it> From: "ang.por@alice.it" Subject: Boophone haemanthoides 3.5 years growth Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 20:20:06 +0100 (CET) Ken, this species seems to grow rather fast, but it's very slow to reach flowering size. I have two pretty big plants in the ground from at least 6 years, planted just the size of your plants and never flowered so far, although the fan of leaves is impressive, as well the bulb neck. Boophone disticha 'Port Elizabeth' form of same age have flowered since two years ago and are much smaller plants. Both have coped -3°C several times in these years, with even a light snowfall, totally unscatted. Angelo Porcelli Apulia - Southern Italy Alice body {margin:0;padding:0;} #footer { height:13px; font-size:11px; font-family:Arial, FreeSans, sans-serif; color:#ADADAD; margin:0; padding:7px 12px; text-align:right; border-top:1px solid #dcdcdc; } #footer a { text-decoration:none; color:#ADADAD; } #footer a:hover { color:#848484; } Inviato dalla nuova Alice mail From plicht@berkeley.edu Tue Jan 4 14:42:07 2011 Message-Id: From: plicht@berkeley.edu Subject: Boophone haemanthoides 3.5 years growth Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 11:42:03 -0800 Ken I'm impressed. How were these grown, inside or out? Paul > I  purchased 5 Boophone haemanthoides seedlings 3.5 years ago in June > 2007.  Thought I would post a comparison shot showing them then, and again > last month, in Dec 2010: >   > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5322665034/ >   > Ken > San Diego > USDA zone 10  > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From kjblack@pacbell.net Tue Jan 4 15:49:49 2011 Message-Id: <956122.46617.qm@web80402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: Boophone haemanthoides 3.5 years growth Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 12:49:47 -0800 (PST) Thanks for the feedback, Angelo !   I was afraid they would take longer to bloom :-( ... but I'll still keep my fingers crossed.  My B.disticha, like yours, have also bloomed in less time ... one in as little as 4 years!   Paul ... these were all seed grown outdoors here in coastal San Diego.  Although I am less than a mile from Mission Bay and less than 3 miles to the ocean as the crows I detest fly ... I am in a canyon which does ocassionally get quite chilly ... in the 30s F ... due to cold air sinking off the mesas and emptying out through my canyon's West facing opening.    Ken Blackford San Diego    --- On Tue, 1/4/11, ang.por@alice.it wrote: Ken, this species seems to grow rather fast, but it's very slow to reach flowering size. I have two pretty big plants in the ground from at least 6 years, planted just the size of your plants and never flowered so far, although the fan of leaves is impressive, as well the bulb neck. Boophone disticha 'Port Elizabeth' form of same age have flowered since two years ago and are much smaller plants. Both have coped -3°C several times in these years, with even a light snowfall, totally unscatted. Angelo Porcelli Apulia - Southern Italy From kjblack@pacbell.net Tue Jan 4 15:55:20 2011 Message-Id: <337179.25474.qm@web80405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: another 3.5 year growth comparison - X Bruns. litoralis Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 12:55:18 -0800 (PST) another comparison showing 3.5 years difference in some Brunsvigia seedlings, the result of brushing B.litoralis florets with B.josephinae pollen:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5324914382/   Ken Blackford San Diego From mikemace@att.net Tue Jan 4 16:19:43 2011 Message-Id: <003301cbac55$17771970$46654c50$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Boophone haemanthoides 3.5 years growth Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 13:19:36 -0800 Ken wrote: >>I purchased 5 Boophone haemanthoides seedlings 3.5 years ago in June 2007. Thought I would post a comparison shot showing them then, and again last month, in Dec 2010: That's impressive growth, Ken. Do you think your success is due to repotting aggressively? If so, do you have any pointers on when to repot? I'm wondering mostly about how you know when the bulb needs a bigger pot, but also if you have any thoughts on what's the best time of year to do it, that would be great. Thanks, Mike San Jose, CA From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Tue Jan 4 16:20:42 2011 Message-Id: <410-22011124212041718@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: Cold frame construction Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 16:20:41 -0500 > > However, there is one huge disadvantage to cold frames in our climate: they > require attention at least twice a day in the matter of opening and closing > them. A couple of hours of January sunshine will cook the contents of a cold > frame exposed to the sun (and for most purposes you definitely want the > frame to have a sunny exposure) A cold frame of the Nearing design, properly sited, can be easier to manage. The secret is the unobstructed overhead light but no direct sunshine from a low winter sun. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 8a From kjblack@pacbell.net Tue Jan 4 16:40:40 2011 Message-Id: <414523.55847.qm@web80405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: Boophone haemanthoides 3.5 years growth Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 13:40:35 -0800 (PST) Hi Mike,   I think the repotting is definitely beneficial. The 2 I repotted last month had roots coming out the drainage holes ... I was hesitant to do so in mid growth so thought I'd repot half of them and monitor for ill effect.  So far, none obvious.  I was as careful as possible not to disturb the root ball ... so maybe that helped.  My experience is that also seems to be true for Amaryllis belladonna ... so that was what I was hoping for with these.  Jim Shields also commented that agressive up-potting with amaryllids is beneficial ... just not TOO agressive!   As far as other 'pointers' ... not sure, but my potting mix is mostly DG with maybe 25% good potting mix, mayb 5-10% pumice and a like amount of perlite.  For the larger bulbs I plan to eventually sink into the ground ... I throw in some of my local clay soil as well ... mayb 20-25%.  Nothing scientific about my mix.  When they go dormant, I have been storing on lower/shaded shelves on the east side of my house with no or little water.  I HAVE treated with an imidacloprid based insecticide a couple months before dormancy to ward off mealies.  I don't like to use insecticides ... but I also don't like to lose my bulbs to mealies!   Ken Blackford San Diego   --- On Tue, 1/4/11, Michael Mace wrote: ... Do you think your success is due to repotting aggressively?  If so, do you have any pointers on when to repot?  I'm wondering mostly about how you know when the bulb needs a bigger pot, but also if you have any thoughts on what's the best time of year to do it, that would be great. Mike San Jose, CA From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Jan 4 17:08:33 2011 Message-Id: <13EDF69D8F4A4DAE94FE6AD280E21632@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Cold frame construction Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 17:08:59 -0500 Mark, thanks for reminding us of Nearing frames. For those of you who are not old enough to remember them and have not otherwise heard of them, Nearing frames are frames positioned so that they face north; they also typically have an upward extension (a sheet of plywood for instance) on the south side of the frame. This extension is of a height to prevent any direct sunlight hitting the frame. Yet the light (glass cover) of the frame is completely exposed to the sky and thus gets plenty of ambient light. Nearing frames were originally designed (I think) for propagating rhododendrons. But savvy gardeners quickly discovered that the use of a Nearing frame might make the difference between success and failure when attempting those fussy plants which require “coolth” (for instance, in our climate, Polygala paucifolia, Cornus canadensis, Trillium undulatum or Cypripedium reginae). So, Nearing frames are used to keep plants cooler than they otherwise might be; the sort of frames I was describing in my post are used to keep plants warmer than they might otherwise be. If you have a wide range of horticultural interests, you’ll eventually want to give both a try. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From ksayce@willapabay.org Tue Jan 4 21:52:14 2011 Message-Id: <8EC74D6C-469A-48CC-9EAB-AFC7B5CB12E4@willapabay.org> From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: cold frame pictures Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 18:52:06 -0800 OK, I created a Flickr page and uploaded photos of this cold frame, and set the access to public. We used 2 inch thick styrofoam insulation, pressure treated wood outside, exterior marine plywood inside for the box. I will paint it, inside and out, in warmer, drier weather later this year, and primed only the top sections before they went into use this week. Tie downs for the sections to keep them on in heavy winds were installed yesterday. Still to come: another 6 inches of gravel inside, to ensure good drainage, and wedges to hold sections open during warmer weather, i.e. above 40 F, and a thermometer. At temps above 50 F, the tops will come off and be stored, unless I am using this frame to keep pots dry. Final dimensions are 4 ft x 12 ft x 2 ft deep. It's this deep because I plan to put 5 gallon buckets in it. I plan to get a roll of insulating cloth to lay over plants when temperatures below 25F are due, and will probably put a tarp over the top as well during heavy snowfalls. http://www.flickr.com/photos/n7ong-photos/sets/72157625750439608/ Now I can move all those pots out of my dining room too, and start eyeing those bulbs that like dry cool winters. And contemplate the next cold frame location, for smaller pots. Kathleen From profloran@roadrunner.com Wed Jan 5 01:26:34 2011 Message-Id: <4D3BEF8A-7137-419E-B61B-B4E6DF0E3ED2@roadrunner.com> From: DAN TYSON Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 22:26:31 -0800 > > > "Give cold frames a try ? you?ll probably be surprised with what you > can get > away with. But don?t blame me if your successes in a cold frame soon > have > you tearing up the yard and spending big bucks to install a > greenhouse to > house your rapidly expanding collections. > > You can see my first cold frame here:" > > http://jimmckenney.com/a_protected_cold_frame.htm > > Jim McKenney > > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > I couldn't agree with you more, Jim. I just have a simple aluminum-framed CF with poly panels I got from Charlie's Greenhouse. Works like a dream. I got revitalized this last Fall to start propagating and potting up plants in the garden. I'm moving a lot of my favorite plants from the ground into pots. I'm favoring container growing over in-ground more and more every year. The CF had languished for years with very little use. Now it is chock full -- and even though we aren't getting the super cold frosty weather like you have in the east -- it dips down into the low thirties. The plants have been growing and stretching out like it was Spring. Next year I will certainly add another frame. Dan Tyson > > > > > > > > > > > > From dkramb@gmail.com Wed Jan 5 09:16:39 2011 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: mystery irid Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 09:16:38 -0500 A question came up on the Iris-Species forum about the identity of this flower... http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kitulo_NP_flower_03_%28paulshaffner%29.jpg Anyone here know? From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Wed Jan 5 10:05:39 2011 Message-Id: <476154.599.qm@web84306.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: cold frame pictures Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 07:05:38 -0800 (PST) Wow! That's impressive. Can you estimate the cost? It reminds me of the pit houses used on old estates in the frigid north east to winter camellias, gardenias and azaleas. If the economy tanks any more, you can move into it! I'm jealous. Jim McKenney From oldtulips@yahoo.com Wed Jan 5 11:36:29 2011 Message-Id: <794949.83378.qm@web45214.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> From: r de vries Subject: cold frame pictures Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 08:36:25 -0800 (PST) Very nice! if you make this frame a few feet deeper so the plant pot tops sit 1-3 feet below grade and tilt the glazing to the north (no sunlight) you can keep the temp more constantly cold and over winter plants that cannot take frost like in a root cellar with daylight but it will need some air circulation, if above freezing. I have a similar but deeper frame adjacent to my basement foundation with access to a basement window, with just a wood frame wrapped in plastic for a top, it is not air tight and the basement window allows some ventilation if i open it on sunny days.  it is a great place to overwinter half hardy plants and grow miniature narcissus, cyclemen, etc.  i get some sun in it for about 1 hr in a portion  in the mid winter.  the top is about flat on top, i like your pitch better, but the goal at construction was cold storage not a cold green house. you will be surprised what just a frame made of 2x12 plunged 6" into the grade with a sand base and flat top in full sun can do.  again not air tight with some gaps , top made of plastic wrapped over a wood frame, the pots are full of crocus seedlings, some blooming, daphne cuttings, tough lilies, acis, and all sorts of stuff from the BX that would get distroyed in the open garden in the frigid midwest.  Rimmer de Vries South of Ann Arbor, MI Zone 5 --- On Tue, 1/4/11, Kathleen Sayce wrote: From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: [pbs] cold frame pictures To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Date: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 9:52 PM OK, I created a Flickr page and uploaded photos of this cold frame, and set the access to public. We used 2 inch thick styrofoam insulation, pressure treated wood outside, exterior marine plywood inside for the box. I will paint it, inside and out, in warmer, drier weather later this year, and primed only the top sections before they went into use this week.  Tie downs for the sections to keep them on in heavy winds were installed yesterday.  Still to come: another 6 inches of gravel inside, to ensure good drainage, and wedges to hold sections open during warmer weather, i.e. above 40 F, and a thermometer. At temps above 50 F, the tops will come off and be stored, unless I am using this frame to keep pots dry. Final dimensions are 4 ft x 12 ft x 2 ft deep. It's this deep because I plan to put 5 gallon buckets in it. I plan to get a roll of insulating cloth to lay over plants when temperatures below 25F are due, and will probably put a tarp over the top as well during heavy snowfalls. http://www.flickr.com/photos/n7ong-photos/sets/72157625750439608/ Now I can move all those pots out of my dining room too, and start eyeing those bulbs that like dry cool winters. And contemplate the next cold frame location, for smaller pots. Kathleen From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Jan 5 12:45:28 2011 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: cold frame pictures Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 09:15:39 -0800 Kathleen wrote >We used 2 inch thick styrofoam insulation, pressure treated wood >outside, exterior marine plywood inside for the box. I will paint it, >inside and out, in warmer, drier weather later this year, and primed >only the top sections before they went into use this week. Tie downs >for the sections to keep them on in heavy winds were installed >yesterday. Still to come: another 6 inches of gravel inside, to >ensure good drainage, and wedges to hold sections open during warmer >weather, i.e. above 40 F, and a thermometer. At temps above 50 F, the >tops will come off and be stored, unless I am using this frame to >keep pots dry. One suggestion I would add to this is, before you put down the gravel (round, not crushed rock), line the bottom and partway up the sides with heavy-duty woven groundcloth. Kathleen, if you can't get hold of it, I can send you some as I have plenty. This will keep out moles, whereas the gravel will not. I learned that the hard way. Chicken wire will also work, but it's a mess to remove after several years should you want to do so, and if (when) your bulbs seed into the plunge material, they can work themselves down under the chicken wire, but not through the groundcloth. The big beds in my new bulb house are lined with this type of groundcloth. It's the product used in commercial nurseries in the greenhouses and "pot yards" and it lasts at least ten years even where exposed to sun. It's also excellent for the bottom of garden paths. The only problem is that it comes in very heavy large rolls -- I can barely lift a full one. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Wed Jan 5 12:50:03 2011 Message-Id: <005d01cbacfe$5c2c7840$2201a8c0@MAINPC> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: mystery irid Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 17:31:17 -0000 This keys out immediately to Moraea callista in the Flora of Tropical East Africa, Iridaceae volume (Goldblatt, 1996), assuming that it has two leaves at flowering time. this species is also cited as occurring in Kitulo NP. John Grimshaw Visit John Grimshaw's Garden Diary http://johngrimshawsgardendiary.blogspot.com/ Dr. John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Kramb" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 2:16 PM Subject: [pbs] mystery irid >A question came up on the Iris-Species forum about the identity of this > flower... > > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kitulo_NP_flower_03_%28paulshaffner%29.jpg > > > From johannes-ulrich-urban@T-Online.de Wed Jan 5 16:54:58 2011 Message-Id: <1Pab4q-03L3pI0@fwd07.aul.t-online.de> From: "Uli Urban" Subject: Hippeastrum calyptratum mounted Date: 05 Jan 2011 20:28 GMT Dear Jacob, This is exactly how H. calyptratum grows in the wild. I have seen mature bulbs growing on moss covered trunks of trees in the forest in Brazil. The roots formed extensive thick carpets about two feet long and at least one foot wide if not bigger. So looking at your picture I think your plant will soon need "repotting" in the sense to attach its piece of cork on a far bigger one. Your method looks very sucessful indeed and thank you for sharing! Uli From Santoury@aol.com Wed Jan 5 16:56:37 2011 Message-Id: <8CD7B3A7DDD933A-110C-11C@webmail-m002.sysops.aol.com> From: santoury@aol.com Subject: Hippeastrum calyptratum mounted Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 16:56:07 -0500 Awesome looking plant guys! I would be interested in looking for some, if anyone has some to share, or leads to find some. Best, Jude -----Original Message----- From: Uli Urban To: Pacifib Bulb Society messages Sent: Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:28 pm Subject: [pbs] Hippeastrum calyptratum mounted Dear Jacob, This is exactly how H. calyptratum grows in the wild. I have seen mature bulbs growing on moss covered trunks of trees in the forest in Brazil. The roots formed extensive thick carpets about two feet long and at least one foot wide if not bigger. So looking at your picture I think your plant will soon need "repotting" in the sense to attach its piece of cork on a far bigger one. Your method looks very sucessful indeed and thank you for sharing! Uli From zonneveld@nhn.leidenuniv.nl Thu Jan 6 08:57:33 2011 Message-Id: <15F108E49358A34DAF66E35648695D5101CA0658@vstpst03.nhncml.org> From: "Zonneveld, B.J.M. (Ben)" Subject: Amarillidaceae from Nepal Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 14:45:54 +0100 A friend asked for a name of an unknown amarillidacae. From the pic I have seen it is a fiercely pink flower and with narrow leaves but maybe most revealing, it was collected in Nepal. Any suggestions? Ben J.M.Zonneveld From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Thu Jan 6 10:23:47 2011 Message-Id: <688442.89658.qm@web84304.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Amarillidaceae from Nepal Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 07:23:46 -0800 (PST) Ben, it's not Zephyranthes grandiflora? Zephyranthes grandiflora is commercially cultivated in India where it has a long history of cultivation; a few years ago I bought a small bag of them from a local shop and was surprised to see them labeled "product of India". Jim McKenney From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Thu Jan 6 10:24:05 2011 Message-Id: <770534.58842.qm@web84307.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Amarillidaceae from Nepal Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 07:24:04 -0800 (PST) Ben, it's not Zephyranthes grandiflora? Zephyranthes grandiflora is commercially cultivated in India where it has a long history of cultivation; a few years ago I bought a small bag of them from a local shop and was surprised to see them labeled "product of India". Jim McKenney From jshields@indy.net Thu Jan 6 10:42:13 2011 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20110106103812.051a1030@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Amarillidaceae from Nepal Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 10:41:38 -0500 Ben, A picture of the flower would be most helpful. I don't think there are any native Amaryllidaceae in Nepal, but numerous introduced ornamentals from this family seem to be there. E.g., http://www.efloras.org/flora_page.aspx?flora_id=110 Jim Shields At 02:45 PM 1/6/2011 +0100, you wrote: >A friend asked for a name of an unknown amarillidacae. From the pic I >have seen it is a fiercely pink flower and with narrow leaves but maybe >most revealing, it was collected in Nepal. Any suggestions? > >Ben J.M.Zonneveld >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 From miller7398@comcast.net Thu Jan 6 14:53:57 2011 Message-Id: <59AD1A132FDC432C81FC194FFCC8D2D9@tapa965> From: "Joyce Miller" Subject: Hippeastrum calyptratum mounted Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 11:53:25 -0800 Me too, me too. Had one years ago, lost to virus. Best, Joyce Miller, USDA 7 Gresham, OR -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 1:56 PM To: Subject: Re: [pbs] Hippeastrum calyptratum mounted > Awesome looking plant guys! I would be interested in looking for some, if > anyone has some to share, or leads to find some. > Best, Jude > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Uli Urban > To: Pacifib Bulb Society messages > Sent: Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:28 pm > Subject: [pbs] Hippeastrum calyptratum mounted > > > Dear Jacob, > > > This is exactly how H. calyptratum grows in the wild. I have seen > mature bulbs growing on moss covered trunks of trees in the forest in > Brazil. The roots formed extensive thick carpets about two feet long > and at least one foot wide if not bigger. So looking at your picture I > think your plant will soon need "repotting" in the sense to attach its > piece of cork on a far bigger one. Your method looks very sucessful > indeed and thank you for sharing! > > > Uli > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5765 (20110106) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5765 (20110106) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Thu Jan 6 15:04:51 2011 Message-Id: <575554.99322.qm@web84305.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Hippeastrum calyptratum mounted Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 12:04:48 -0800 (PST) This is another one of those plants which, believe it or not, Park Seeds sold decades ago (back when they were selling Worsleya seed). I grew one from their seed but lost it before it flowered. A friend had one which he had grown from seed and it did flower. I remember the scent as odd and wax-like (I realize that that's not too helpful as a description; sorry). I've probably told that story before on this list; maybe it's time for me to retire since I'm into re-runs now. Jim McKenney From jacobknecht@gmail.com Thu Jan 6 15:11:32 2011 Message-Id: From: Jacob Knecht Subject: Amarillidaceae from Nepal Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 12:11:29 -0800 Ben, I also think that it sounds like Zephyranthes, which has been recorded as naturalised in parts of Nepal. Jim, You got me curious about Amaryllidaceae in Nepal, so I did a search on Kew's checklist. Apparently there are three members the family native to Nepal: Pancratium verecundum, Crinum amoenum and C. viviparum. Jacob From joshy46013@yahoo.com Thu Jan 6 15:25:48 2011 Message-Id: <679645.59252.qm@web121702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Josh Young Subject: Hippeastrum calyptratum mounted Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 12:25:46 -0800 (PST) Jim, No retiring! I haven't heard any of these stories, keep 'em comin'! :) I grow my calyptratum in an orchid mix with a tad bit of sphagnum, they are really prospering! Josh ________________________________ This is another one of those plants which, believe it or not, Park Seeds sold decades ago (back when they were selling Worsleya seed). I grew one from their seed but lost it before it flowered. A friend had one which he had grown from seed and it did flower. I remember the scent as odd and wax-like (I realize that that's not too helpful as a description; sorry). I've probably told that story before on this list; maybe it's time for me to retire since I'm into re-runs now. Jim McKenney From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Thu Jan 6 16:18:05 2011 Message-Id: <62058.985.qm@web84301.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Hippeastrum calyptratum mounted Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 13:18:03 -0800 (PST) Careful, Mark, you just flashed your membership card for the old folks club. Jim McKenney From mzukaitis@msn.com Thu Jan 6 16:11:07 2011 Message-Id: From: "mark zukaitis" Subject: Hippeastrum calyptratum mounted Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 16:19:11 -0500 Jim I remember Park carrying seed for H. calyptratum! Thinking back this is amazing since it is not really very easy to get ahold of now. I can't believe they were selling Worsleya seed! What a hoot! ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim McKenney To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Hippeastrum calyptratum mounted This is another one of those plants which, believe it or not, Park Seeds sold decades ago (back when they were selling Worsleya seed). I grew one from their seed but lost it before it flowered. A friend had one which he had grown from seed and it did flower. I remember the scent as odd and wax-like (I realize that that's not too helpful as a description; sorry). I've probably told that story before on this list; maybe it's time for me to retire since I'm into re-runs now. Jim McKenney _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Thu Jan 6 19:02:00 2011 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Amarillidaceae from Nepal Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 00:01:58 +0000 Not only Nepal and India, it was reported as growing "wild" in subtropical China decades ago From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Thu Jan 6 20:50:01 2011 Message-Id: <7D1CEBBA-E10F-4F3F-BB66-AE52A51E785B@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Amarillidaceae from Nepal Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 17:49:51 -0800 I've had Pancratium zeylanicum for over 10 years. I assume it's somewhat related to P. verecundum since I think zeylanicum is from Ceylon, the previous name for Sri Lanka. It actually grows really great for me as a foliage plant and multiplies easily. But I have never once seen a flower or scape on it. Does anyone know how to get it to flower? --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a On Jan 6, 2011, at 12:11 PM, Jacob Knecht wrote: > > Jim, > > You got me curious about Amaryllidaceae in Nepal, so I did a search on Kew's > checklist. Apparently there are three members the family native to Nepal: > Pancratium verecundum, Crinum amoenum and C. viviparum. > > Jacob From miller7398@comcast.net Thu Jan 6 21:01:28 2011 Message-Id: From: "Joyce Miller" Subject: H. calytratum seed Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 18:01:26 -0800 Hi Jim, Don't fade away. I remember too the year they withdrew the seed because it only tested as 11% germination. FDA requires 87%. Bought some seed from someone DBA Floral Specialties, in Southern California but seeds were all duds. Would love to try again. Anyone? Joyce Miller, Gresham, Oregon USDA 8 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5765 (20110106) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Jan 6 22:18:20 2011 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Hippeastrum calyptratum mounted Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 20:47:04 -0600 >Dear Jacob, >This is exactly how H. calyptratum grows in the wild. I agree. It is sure nice to see this plant growing more 'naturally' and not stuck in a pot. Hope to see a pic with blooms soon, too. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From dkramb@gmail.com Thu Jan 6 22:02:07 2011 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Dietes robinsoniana Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 22:02:05 -0500 I just received some seeds of this species, and I'm wondering if anyone has any particular suggestions for germinating them. I've grown lots of irises from seeds, but almost no irids, and never Dietes. In fact, this is my first time ever to have a Dietes. I hear they get big! http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/dietes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietes_robinsoniana Thanks! Dennis in Cincinnati From mzukaitis@msn.com Thu Jan 6 22:27:59 2011 Message-Id: From: "mark zukaitis" Subject: Hippeastrum calyptratum mounted Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 22:36:06 -0500 we'll just not tell them about how much we loved ordering from Viech & Sons ... ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim McKenney To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Hippeastrum calyptratum mounted Careful, Mark, you just flashed your membership card for the old folks club. Jim McKenney _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From awilson@avonia.com Thu Jan 6 22:57:17 2011 Message-Id: <4DBBD120719441E6914EC1242A5DC557@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: Dietes robinsoniana Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 19:59:20 -0800 Dennis, There are four species of Dietes, three of them from South Africa and the one outsider, which you now have, from Lord Howe Island in the Tasman sea. I've grown all but this one. They are so easy to germinate, that apart from saying water them, cover them lightly with any reasonable seed soil, and give them 50F or more, there's nothing to be done. They all self sow here with reckless abandon all over the garden. And, unlike most irids around here, the rodents leave them alone. After germination they grow steadily. If you're indoors I am almost scared to warn you about them. Yes, they will grow to 2 to three feet and spread laterally. The South African species tolerate drought very well but luxuriate if they get watered. From where it comes from, D. robinsoniana is probably more demanding of water. Andrew San Diego I just received some seeds of this species, and I'm wondering if anyone has any particular suggestions for germinating them. I've grown lots of irises from seeds, but almost no irids, and never Dietes. In fact, this is my first time ever to have a Dietes. I hear they get big! http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/dietes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietes_robinsoniana Thanks! Dennis in Cincinnati _______________________________________________ From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Thu Jan 6 23:09:21 2011 Message-Id: <530960.13802.qm@web84308.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Hippeastrum calyptratum mounted Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 20:09:17 -0800 (PST) Or Hillier or Harry Saier Jim McKenney From jacobknecht@gmail.com Thu Jan 6 23:58:47 2011 Message-Id: From: Jacob Knecht Subject: Hippeastrum calyptratum mounted Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 20:58:45 -0800 I forgot to add that the roots were completely covered by the coconut fibre at the time of mounting. Thus all the visible roots seen in the pictures are new since mounting. My bulbs are at least 1-2 years from blooming size. When they make seed I will be sure to share it. On 5 January 2011 12:28, Uli Urban wrote: ...So looking at your picture I > think your plant will soon need "repotting" in the sense to attach its > piece of cork on a far bigger one... > > Uli > Uli, I have been thinking about mounting the remainder of the bulbs, but due to the restrictions that I have on space, I am considering fastening them instead into an open hardwood-slat basket (like those used for vandaceous orchids). I'll keep you all updated on our progress and thanks for the encouragement. Jacob From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Fri Jan 7 01:31:22 2011 Message-Id: From: "J. Agoston" Subject: mystery irid Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 07:31:20 +0100 Or maybe Gynandriris ( http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Gynandriris) Jan Z5a, Hungary From Jtlehmann@aol.com Fri Jan 7 01:37:16 2011 Message-Id: <162891.5abbfee5.3a580e8b@aol.com> From: Jtlehmann@aol.com Subject: Worsleya - Eucharis Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 01:36:59 EST I guess I'm also a card carrying member of the old folks club. Park Seed used to send out a special catalog every so often, and a few times I purchased Worsleya bulbs. Yes, bulbs. They were sold as "Blue Amaryllis." Unfortunately, I treated them like...amaryllis. They didn't survive long. I also remember another mail order company that sold "Amorphophallus rivieri" in different "bulb" sizes. They had, as what seemed at the time, some awesome black and white photocopied photos in their price list type of catalog. I don't remember the company name, and sure wish I held onto all those all catalogs and price lists. Back to the Eucharis comments a week or so back...I donated some bulbs earlier this fall. Mine flower for me every year, but never more than one stalk (every few years, maybe two stalks) and never more than a few flowers per stalk. They were pot bound in an 8" pot. They were in that pot for about 12 years. Part sun to dappled shade outside in the summer, heavy on the water as they were irrigated by my sprinkler system, some generic water-soluble fertilizer when they were lucky, and in my garage for the winter. In the garage they were under fluorescent lights (cheap shop lights and bulbs) just to keep them alive. However, my garage is heated, and does not fall below 40F even during very cold winters. (That is my "cold frame.") They were watered in the garage only when very dry and the leaf edges began to turn yellow or brown. By spring they had only one or two leaves left per bulb. The flowering must have been brought on by the stress and dryness during the winter, and the more sun than shade during the summer. I hope this helps those who now own my old bulbs. I will (kind of) miss the plant! --Jerry Lehmann From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Fri Jan 7 04:38:59 2011 Message-Id: <290ABD74-E8D0-43D3-80D3-F4D5F4446239@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Hippeastrum calyptratum mounted Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 01:38:48 -0800 It grows extremely easily from seeds, and Mauro Peixoto of brazilplants.com offers seeds of it all the time. I haven't gotten any up to flowering size yet, but I'm almost there I think. BTW, I got to meet Mauro and see his place and both were great experiences. You could easily wander his shade houses for an entire day or more if you wanted to look at each species he has growing there. And he takes *very* good care of his seedstock. Also several professional botanists depend on him to grow their acquisitions. For example, the guy who did his PhD on the Neomarica genus deposited all of his plants with Mauro, and Dr. Julie Dutilh regularly leaves many of her latest Hippeastrum and Griffinia accessions with him. Got to see a Griffinia gardneriana in bloom recently; huge flowers (10 cm across) on the typically small plants but only last a couple of days in bloom. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a On Jan 5, 2011, at 1:56 PM, santoury@aol.com wrote: > Awesome looking plant guys! I would be interested in looking for some, if anyone has some to share, or leads to find some. > Best, Jude > From idavide@sbcglobal.net Sat Jan 8 19:57:28 2011 Message-Id: <322491.90647.qm@web81005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Dietes robinsoniana Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 16:57:27 -0800 (PST) Hi Dennis Here in Coastal California, Dietes (two or three species) grow freely and easily, but are not weedy.  I've just put the seed in a pot of commercial potting mix and voilà! a new seedling.  They take a few years to get to blooming size. Now tell me -- I've grown many irids from seed, but never Iris.  I just got some Iris seed -- is there anything special I need to know about germinating Iris? David E. From adam14113@ameritech.net Sat Jan 8 20:32:26 2011 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Dietes robinsoniana Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 19:32:21 -0600 It depends on the iris, genus and species. What do you have? and whether it's a hybrid and if is, what kind and where you live. If I recall, you're S. Calif.. . ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Ehrlich" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Dietes robinsoniana Hi Dennis Here in Coastal California, Dietes (two or three species) grow freely and easily, but are not weedy. I've just put the seed in a pot of commercial potting mix and voilà! a new seedling. They take a few years to get to blooming size. Now tell me -- I've grown many irids from seed, but never Iris. I just got some Iris seed -- is there anything special I need to know about germinating Iris? David E. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From dkramb@gmail.com Sat Jan 8 20:33:09 2011 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Dietes robinsoniana Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 20:33:05 -0500 :-) You're the anti-me! My answer to your question is... it depends. Most species and varieties of Iris do well with a cold stratification before germinating. Usually I plant all mine in the fall, and set them in the unheated addition off the back of my house where temps can get to about 20 deg F...but usually stay above freezing. Pacific Coast irises, though, would probably suffer if treated that way. At the moment I only have a few batches of Louisiana irises that I'm trying to germinate. They're on a cold windowsill where temps get down to the 30's at night, and up to 70's in the day. (That swing in temps really seems to trigger germination... especially after a cold stratification of a month or two.) I got 20 seeds of D. robinsoniana and I planted 5, and waiting to see what they do. I'll try again with another batch if these fail to germinate. There's other iris experts on the forum. I'm eager to hear what they say. Dennis in Cincinnati (tonight's forecasted low is 1 deg F. LOL) On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 7:57 PM, David Ehrlich wrote: > Hi Dennis > > Here in Coastal California, Dietes (two or three species) grow freely and > easily, but are not weedy. I've just put the seed in a pot of commercial > potting mix and voilà! a new seedling. They take a few years to get to > blooming > size. > > Now tell me -- I've grown many irids from seed, but never Iris. I just got > some > Iris seed -- is there anything special I need to know about germinating > Iris? > > David E. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Jan 8 23:32:43 2011 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: WAS D robinsoniana NOW Germinating Iris Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 21:43:10 -0600 >Now tell me -- I've grown many irids from seed, but never Iris. I >just got some >Iris seed -- is there anything special I need to know about germinating Iris? Dear David, They range no-brainer simple to frustratingly difficult. It depends. For most species and hybrids you can't beat this old stand by wisdom from the SIGNA web site: http://signa.org/index.pl?Germinating What kind of seed do you have? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jgglatt@gmail.com Sun Jan 9 08:44:59 2011 Message-Id: <4D29BBDB.7060606@gmail.com> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: OT - Invasive Snakes Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 08:44:59 -0500 As you can read here in a New York Times article http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/science/earth/09snakes.html?pagewanted=2&hpw the government is taking aim at non-native thought-to-be-invasive snakes. What caught my attention were the statements: "At the heart of their arguments[the snake owners] is a critique of the emerging science of invasive species risk assessment . And their response has highlighted the challenges that the government faces as it increasingly moves to protect native flora and fauna not just from current invasive species but also from future threats." and "Andrew Wyatt, the president of the [reptile keepers] association, argues that the government is now promoting a native-species-only agenda favored by environmental groups." Sound familiar? Judy in frigid and snow covered New Jersey where any outdoor Burmese pythons would be rendered unable to provide a threat From ksayce@willapabay.org Sun Jan 9 14:07:48 2011 Message-Id: From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: Slightly OT- Wireless thermometers Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 11:07:40 -0800 Would people with experience with wireless thermometers tell me this? I'm looking for one that reliably transmits 100 ft or more, despite what descriptions might say. The first one I purchased said it would transmit 100 ft, and after checking, it reaches no more than 45 ft. Kathleen From adam14113@ameritech.net Sun Jan 9 14:34:09 2011 Message-Id: <4DC6F934AF6648DC85F2D738BA1B9C09@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Slightly OT- Wireless thermometers Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 13:34:05 -0600 Hello Kathleen. Off Topic maybe-- but important. ...Did you contact the mfr for a complaint or replacement?. They might be in hurry to make good if you threaten to mention it on the web. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathleen Sayce" To: Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 1:07 PM Subject: [pbs] Slightly OT- Wireless thermometers > Would people with experience with wireless thermometers tell me this? I'm > looking for one that reliably transmits 100 ft or more, despite what > descriptions might say. > The first one I purchased said it would transmit 100 ft, and after > checking, it reaches no more than 45 ft. > Kathleen > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From adam14113@ameritech.net Sun Jan 9 14:40:54 2011 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Slightly OT- Wireless thermometers Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 13:40:48 -0600 Using Dogpile. Just type in: The Texas Omen and see what happens. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathleen Sayce" To: Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 1:07 PM Subject: [pbs] Slightly OT- Wireless thermometers > Would people with experience with wireless thermometers tell me this? > I'm looking for one that reliably transmits 100 ft or more, despite > what descriptions might say. > The first one I purchased said it would transmit 100 ft, and after > checking, it reaches no more than 45 ft. > Kathleen > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From xerics@cox.net Sun Jan 9 15:06:31 2011 Message-Id: <003301cbb037$d7482330$85d86990$@net> From: "Richard" Subject: Slightly OT- Wireless thermometers Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 12:00:08 -0800 I use a LaCross wireless set. I have one remote in my greenhouse and one at the rear of my property under a tree. It was a bit tricky to set up but once up, it performs well. The rear one is about 150 ft from the main unit. Mine is the older 430 Mhz unit. No troubles. Slightly less than a year battery life and I use premium rechargeables. Richard Vista California -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Kathleen Sayce Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 11:08 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Slightly OT- Wireless thermometers Would people with experience with wireless thermometers tell me this? I'm looking for one that reliably transmits 100 ft or more, despite what descriptions might say. The first one I purchased said it would transmit 100 ft, and after checking, it reaches no more than 45 ft. Kathleen From loujost@yahoo.com Sun Jan 9 15:09:56 2011 Message-Id: <997369.80135.qm@web120518.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: lou jost Subject: Invasive snakes Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 12:09:54 -0800 (PST) I've just read the article cited by Judy about invasive snakes. Yes, the scare about invading Burmese pythons taking over the world seems exaggerated. If there were Burmese pythons where Judy lives, she could play baseball with them (they make great bats) for part of the year. Nevertheless no one disputes that Burmese pythons are a serious threat to the Everglades (even the cited article agrees with that). So if importation of Burmese pythons had been prohibited years ago, one of the most unusual and endangered ecosystems in the US would have been much better off. Far from arguing against control of non-native species, this case poses a strong argument for it. And for every Burmese python there are hundreds of other non-native snakes and lizards with other habitat requirements. There are surely a hundred non-native potentially invasive snakes for every USDA hardiness zone. This threat is real (though insects are a far greater threat than big animals). A ban on non-native snakes would be a wise thing. How can the handful of people who need to possess these non-native snakes weigh the importance of their obsession above the health and survival of entire ecosystems (which generally include other snakes and lizards that these people should ostensibly care about)? People here have often argued that no plant is invasive everywhere. True enough. But it could also be argued that nearly every ecosystem in the US is suffering badly from invasion by one or more non-native plant species. Granted no species poses a universal threat, but many species pose local threats, and as more and more non-native species enter commerce, many will sooner or later be let loose in areas where they could do damage. I would hope that gardeners would better balance their love of their hobby with their (presumed) love of nature and of native plants. A gardener who seriously places his or her gardening pleasure above the continued existence of natural ecosystems is a gardener who has lost sight of why they are gardening. If people who love plants as much as us are not willing to accept any controls that might save some native ecosystems and native plant species, we are traitors to the very things we love. Lou From arnold140@verizon.net Sun Jan 9 15:45:17 2011 Message-Id: <200465094.139664.1294605904013.JavaMail.root@vznit170072> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Slightly OT- Wireless thermometers Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 14:45:03 -0600 (CST) I also use the Lacrosse Technology unit. Model WS-7013U-IT It can be a little tricky setting it up. You have to load the batteries in the transmitter first. The sensor is located on the shady side of a 6 by 6 post. One sensor is in the greenhouse and the other in the master bath. The master bath is on the other side of the house so signals have to travel through the house. It works great. I picked it up a LL Bean Arnold From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sun Jan 9 16:38:23 2011 Message-Id: <27C5473905984439BF00B03038DF69DD@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: OT - Invasive Snakes Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 16:39:54 -0500 Judy, what a coincidence! I suddenly have a snake story of my own to tell. A few minutes ago my mom came to me and asked me if I saw the snake on the front porch. Since she’s having memory problems, at first I assumed that she was remembering something from the past (it has happened). But when I asked her about it again, she told me she had seen a snake on the front porch. I went and took a look and sure enough there was a snake on the front porch, a live snake, a live snake in the winter. It’s a juvenile black rat snake, our largest local snake. Because this species climbs well and spends much time above ground, it has persisted where ground dwelling species have disappeared (probably largely due to domestic cat predation). I sometimes find the shed skins of this species in the attic, and I suspect that they hibernate there. After getting some photos, I gathered up the snake and put it in my most protected cold frame (it can easily get out of this if it wants to because rodents have tunneled into this frame). Here’s a picture of the snake: http://jimmckenney.com/black_rat_snake.htm Maybe this snake believes in global warming. We have two and an half months of potentially bitter weather ahead of us, so maybe it will change its mind. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From adam14113@ameritech.net Sun Jan 9 18:35:08 2011 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: OT - Invasive Snakes Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 17:35:03 -0600 I envy you. I haven 't seen a live snake in Illinois now in 20 years, except for a pregnant massasauga in a forest preserve about 3 miles from here. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McKenney" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] OT - Invasive Snakes Judy, what a coincidence! I suddenly have a snake story of my own to tell. A few minutes ago my mom came to me and asked me if I saw the snake on the front porch. Since she's having memory problems, at first I assumed that she was remembering something from the past (it has happened). But when I asked her about it again, she told me she had seen a snake on the front porch. I went and took a look and sure enough there was a snake on the front porch, a live snake, a live snake in the winter. It's a juvenile black rat snake, our largest local snake. Because this species climbs well and spends much time above ground, it has persisted where ground dwelling species have disappeared (probably largely due to domestic cat predation). I sometimes find the shed skins of this species in the attic, and I suspect that they hibernate there. After getting some photos, I gathered up the snake and put it in my most protected cold frame (it can easily get out of this if it wants to because rodents have tunneled into this frame). Here's a picture of the snake: http://jimmckenney.com/black_rat_snake.htm Maybe this snake believes in global warming. We have two and an half months of potentially bitter weather ahead of us, so maybe it will change its mind. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sun Jan 9 18:47:56 2011 Message-Id: From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: OT - Invasive Snakes Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 18:50:20 -0500 A massasauga? Wow. When I was a kid I kept snakes and once had a pygmy rattlesnake (the southern version of the massassauga). I don't think I've ever even seen a massasauga. At least six species of snake have made an appearance in this garden over the years. In the years when there is a bumper crop of toadlets and frogs, the snake visitors increase. I manage the garden as wildlife habitat. Jim McKenney From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Jan 9 19:55:16 2011 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Slightly OT- Wireless thermometers Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 16:48:21 -0800 Kathleen asked >Would people with experience with wireless thermometers tell me this? >I'm looking for one that reliably transmits 100 ft or more, despite >what descriptions might say. >The first one I purchased said it would transmit 100 ft, and after >checking, it reaches no more than 45 ft. I have one (two, actually, that transmit to one base station) that reliably transmitted from my bulb frames to my former house, a distance of about 140 feet. I got this from a catalog called "Wind and Weather" (I think) but the instrument is made in Portland by, I seem to remember, Oregon Scientific. I'm sorry, I can't find it at the moment, having recently moved--I wish I had it set up, but I don't know where I packed it. The thermometers and the base unit are battery-powered. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon USA From dkramb@gmail.com Sun Jan 9 23:31:16 2011 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Worsleya - Eucharis Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 23:31:15 -0500 I got one of those bulbs. I have been experimenting with growing various things semi-hydroponically. But when this bulb failed to produce any green growth (after how manyw eeks now?) I finally uprooted it today to find it was starting to get moldy. I think I caught it in plenty of time, but clearly this is a bad candidate for SH culture. I gave it a dip in diluted bleach and letting it air dry (probably for a few days). I hope it recovers. Dennis in Cincinnati (who also uprooted his freshly planted Hippeastrums figuring they would turn out the same way as the Eucharis in SH). On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 1:36 AM, wrote: > > Back to the Eucharis comments a week or so back...I donated some bulbs > earlier this fall. Mine flower for me every year, but never more than one > > --Jerry Lehmann > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From adam14113@ameritech.net Sun Jan 9 23:50:58 2011 Message-Id: <7A0A17ACCBA842A6BCFD2C7CB082C03D@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Worsleya - Eucharis Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 22:50:54 -0600 Bulbs are not made for hydroponic culture. They provide their own moisture system with the bulb. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Kramb" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 10:31 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Worsleya - Eucharis >I got one of those bulbs. I have been experimenting with growing various > things semi-hydroponically. But when this bulb failed to produce any > green > growth (after how manyw eeks now?) I finally uprooted it today to find it > was starting to get moldy. I think I caught it in plenty of time, but > clearly this is a bad candidate for SH culture. I gave it a dip in > diluted > bleach and letting it air dry (probably for a few days). I hope it > recovers. > > Dennis in Cincinnati (who also uprooted his freshly planted Hippeastrums > figuring they would turn out the same way as the Eucharis in SH). > > > On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 1:36 AM, wrote: > >> >> Back to the Eucharis comments a week or so back...I donated some bulbs >> earlier this fall. Mine flower for me every year, but never more than >> one >> >> --Jerry Lehmann >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From awilson@avonia.com Sun Jan 9 23:49:17 2011 Message-Id: <37B346C5DD8B4A7AA5DEB845B976A576@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: OT - Invasive Snakes Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 20:50:57 -0800 Dear Judy, I sympathise but am not at all surprised by this. There are many non-native species that have been introduced without finding out first where and/or if their populations may explode. It is indeed a difficult problem to solve - escaped fish, wild horses, pigs or goats, European foxes and rodents, hundreds or maybe thousands of species of plants that have become invasive in this country. Sure, the Burmese python is unlikely to cause a threat anywhere in the US but in Florida, Hawaii or Puerto Rico and that would seem to make enforcement of law to ban them eveywhere ridiculous. Similarly, plant species that have gone wild and invasive in parts of the country are nearly impossible to keep alive elsewhere. It would appear to be ridiculous to ban them if that is the case. The trouble is that once the biological species (animal, plant, fish etc.) is within the country it can be transported within the country, from areas where its invasiveness is negligible to areas where it is not. The Algerian mustard that might barely survive is in most areas becomes a disaster in the southwestern deserts. And the python, so beloved to pet owners in New York, becomes a threat if transported to Florida and released there. For once and much as it displeases me, I am in agreement with the government policy. Unless people can be trusted to retain their possibly invasive pets or potentially weedy plants there appears to be no other solution. We cannot accept more Asian carp or kudzu vines. Australia has adopted an even stronger policy. There was no other choice. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Judy Glattstein Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:45 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] OT - Invasive Snakes As you can read here in a New York Times article http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/science/earth/09snakes.html?pagewanted=2&h pw the government is taking aim at non-native thought-to-be-invasive snakes. What caught my attention were the statements: "At the heart of their arguments[the snake owners] is a critique of the emerging science of invasive species risk assessment . And their response has highlighted the challenges that the government faces as it increasingly moves to protect native flora and fauna not just from current invasive species but also from future threats." and "Andrew Wyatt, the president of the [reptile keepers] association, argues that the government is now promoting a native-species-only agenda favored by environmental groups." Sound familiar? Judy in frigid and snow covered New Jersey where any outdoor Burmese pythons would be rendered unable to provide a threat From mikemace@att.net Mon Jan 10 02:54:04 2011 Message-Id: <001801cbb09b$893b85b0$9bb29110$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Invasive snakes Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 23:53:57 -0800 Lou wrote: >> So if importation of Burmese pythons had been prohibited years ago, one of the most unusual and endangered ecosystems in the US would have been much better off. There's certainly a good argument to ban them from Florida and Louisiana. Banning them from Alaska doesn't do much to protect the Everglades, though. Nor does banning albino ones that can't survive anywhere in the wild. Washington often carries a very blunt bat and swings it very hard. Mike San Jose, CA From wusong@evilemail.com Mon Jan 10 09:26:07 2011 Message-Id: From: dave s Subject: OT - Invasive Snakes Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 09:26:03 -0500 This subject (in the broad sense - not specifically pythons) is always a sore one for me. You mention Asian carp and kudzu - what they have in common, and what most of our "invasives" have in common is that their introductions have very little to do with private individuals. They're mostly the result of local, state and federal efforts to introduce them deliberately, whether for agriculture, sport fishing, or "wildlife management" (those quotes aren't snarky, they're there because it is a very broad heading). A few of the worst are an unfortunate side effect of international trade, the exact thing that a government agency COULD have done something about (I'm looking at you, *Boiga*, *Neogobius*, and * Dreissena*). The private pet owner/gardener is the easy target, but precious few invasives species, globally, jumped from the store shelf to become a rampant problem. Despite widespread stupidity, most (many? :D ) pet owners are at least *fairly* responsible, and don't go releasing unwanted snakes. And even if they do, a snake/lizard/bird here and there is statistically unlikely to cause an epidemic. In other words, this type of legislation is usually a textbook example of bull____, as defined by H.G. Frankfurt: A willful disregard for the truth in an effort to deceive others as to how one feels about a given subject. Politics as usual. It's lazy, unsupported by the facts, and ultimately not likely to help much. And, given the way laws build on what has gone before, likely to progressively encroach on our activities. -Dave From Santoury@aol.com Mon Jan 10 09:31:48 2011 Message-Id: <8CD7EEA2F7C7AC2-156C-2C032@webmail-d056.sysops.aol.com> From: santoury@aol.com Subject: OT - Invasive Snakes Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 09:31:27 -0500 I have not exactly been following the discussion here, but this is a very interesting topic for me, since I spent many years studying fish (Cichlid) behavior, and am very aware of invasive species, and the same goes for plants. I agree with Dave that most species are introduced not by the small guys, us, but rather those in management or governmental positions. Quite often a species is introduced to try and control another species, and as a result, you have two, not just one, invasive. More often yet, species are introduced purposefully as a source of food. Heck, cows, pigs, etc, can be counted as invasives also as well as our beloved Dandelions. We could talk about this all day and all year, and never get tired of it - so I'll pause here. Just wanted to say that I agree that most of them are a result of deliberate action, not the "escaped pet syndrome." And who suffers for it? We do - For instance, I am very sore over the fact there are some wonderful fish species that can no longer be kept in the US because of this. Jude -----Original Message----- From: dave s To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Mon, Jan 10, 2011 9:26 am Subject: Re: [pbs] OT - Invasive Snakes This subject (in the broad sense - not specifically pythons) is always a sore one for me. You mention Asian carp and kudzu - what they have in common, and what most of our "invasives" have in common is that their introductions have very little to do with private individuals. They're mostly the result of local, state and federal efforts to introduce them deliberately, whether for agriculture, sport fishing, or "wildlife management" (those quotes aren't snarky, they're there because it is a very broad heading). A few of the worst are an unfortunate side effect of international trade, the exact thing that a government agency COULD have done something about (I'm looking at you, *Boiga*, *Neogobius*, and * Dreissena*). The private pet owner/gardener is the easy target, but precious few invasives species, globally, jumped from the store shelf to become a rampant problem. Despite widespread stupidity, most (many? :D ) pet owners are at least *fairly* responsible, and don't go releasing unwanted snakes. And even if they do, a snake/lizard/bird here and there is statistically unlikely to cause an epidemic. In other words, this type of legislation is usually a textbook example of bull____, as defined by H.G. Frankfurt: A willful disregard for the truth in an effort to deceive others as to how one feels about a given subject. Politics as usual. It's lazy, unsupported by the facts, and ultimately not likely to help much. And, given the way laws build on what has gone before, likely to progressively encroach on our activities. -Dave _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From wusong@evilemail.com Mon Jan 10 09:43:22 2011 Message-Id: From: dave s Subject: OT - Invasive Snakes Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 09:43:20 -0500 >>there are some wonderful fish species that can no longer be kept in the US because of this. Jude<< *Channa bleheri*. Much of it is media-fueled hysteria. There are some northern states that have banned piranhas because, you know, they could maybe take off a hand when you're pulling a walleye though the hole you chopped in the ice when you go out on the lake in February. :D Lest we lose some people, just remember that's it's not a far jump from that you banning your " all plants of the genera Pinellia and *Arisaema*." -Dave From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Jan 10 13:20:01 2011 Message-Id: <0F340755418849688E521BABBB08330F@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: OT - Invasive Snakes Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 13:23:55 -0500 These discussions about invasive species perplex me. If the basic assumption is that invasive species must be eliminated, then that has some unfortunate consequences. Let's do a reductio ad absurdum here: since the resources to eliminate all invasive species are not likely to exist (we won't bother to kill pythons in Alaska), let's agree to confine our elimination efforts to only the most invasive species and the ones which have had the greatest adverse effects on indigenous plants and animals. OK, so we look around and try to determine which species that is. Hmmm.let's see, would that be starlings? Pigeons? Kudzu? Oops, .it's pretty obvious that the species which has worked hardest to attain that distinction is Homo sapiens, a species not native to the Americas. And of the invasive tendencies of this species, among the most disruptive have been those which result from agricultural activity (billions of acres bereft of their biological patrimony and the substitution of several non-native plant and animal species), road building (which has produced a slaughterhouse for those native animals which survive the road building itself), and the recycling of stage one destructive activities like farming into stage two destructive activities such as housing developments..well, the list could go on and on. Obviously the ethical thing to do is to eliminate ourselves from the New World and allow North, Central and South America to return to the paradises they presumably were before "we" got here and wrecked it. But that's no fun, and since so many of our cultural myths promote us into the role of God's representatives here on earth, we'll exempt ourselves in deference to the wishes of the Deity and get on with trying to maintain a Disneyland-like similitude of the American Ur-landscape. Hmm.too bad about the megafauna, passenger pigeons, Carolina parakeet and those others. We'll have to do some virtual versions to fill the void. And what's more important, the ivory billed woodpecker's need for vast lowland forest tracts or our need for toilet paper and newsprint? Come on, it's a no brainer. And as for that old farm field you're going to restore as a "natural" landscape, old timers seem to be divided over whether it was originally a bog or an upland hardwood forest. Let's make it a prairie instead, and add a few patriotic buffalo to keep the crowds happy. And soon we'll be 9 billion strong. We must be right because there are so many of us. If Malthus could see what's happening now, I wonder if he would be glad that he lived and died in the world as he knew it. He predicted our date with destiny, and we seem to be doing everything in our power to test his hypothesis and bring it on. . From mikemace@att.net Mon Jan 10 15:02:59 2011 Message-Id: <004f01cbb101$5c9dcc00$15d96400$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: OT - Invasive Snakes Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 12:02:50 -0800 Having seen this sort of discussion flare up on the list before, I have a feeling that we're annoying some of the list members. Sorry about that. I've made this offer before, but I'd like to repeat it -- I think something constructive we could do in this area is to develop a voluntary code of conduct for species bulb-growing, to reduce even further the risk of a bulb escaping into the wild. This would help show the regulatory authorities that we can be part of the solution, rather than part of the problem. The code could include: --Guidelines for how to dispose of used potting soil that might have bulblets in it. I don't actually know what is the best way to do this. --Steps to take with bulbs that have wind-dispersed seeds, if you live in an area where they might naturalize (ie, deadhead them). --A central place online for gathering invasiveness reports from our own experiences, and reporting bulbs that have escaped into the wild, if we spot that locally. If we did it right, I think we could show the authorities that it's to their advantage to support our activity, because we can help them focus on species that actually are a potential threat. We could be their early warning system. Is anyone else interested in this? OK, I'll get off the soapbox now. Mike San Jose, CA From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Jan 10 15:34:53 2011 Message-Id: <6BD9B072C66C4911BF0B215C58C31501@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: OT - Invasive Snakes Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 15:38:14 -0500 Mike, get back on your soap box. There's nothing much else happening today. Complainers can use the delete key. I think some of those ideas are great, but I'm dubious about any solution which gets the 'authorities" involved. And believe me, I'm not an anti-government nut. For a good example of what goes wrong when "authorities" get involved, take a look at the labels placed on over the counter chemicals which are known to have potentially dangerous environmental effects. In deference to the local god Free Market, we allow these things to be sold as long as they are labeled for proper use. Yes, that is an important step in the right direction, and I'm grateful for it. But are prospective purchasers of such products required to demonstrate literacy? Are they required to show that they can read and understand the label? Are they given a psychological test to determine if they have sociopathic intentions, latent or otherwise? No to all of the above. And that leaves us where we started, which is to say people of good will will not do these things intentionally and evil, devious people will find ways of getting around the law in order to do them (or to unintentionally cause them to be done) . I'm out of positive solutions today; I hope others chime in and keep this thread gently bubbling. Jim McKenney From ds429@comcast.net Mon Jan 10 16:21:16 2011 Message-Id: <000001cbb10c$65466ff0$2fd34fd0$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Annual New Year Seed Clearance Sale Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 16:21:50 -0500 Dear PBS Members, This year, the list of extra seeds from the BX which are offered at a reduced price will be sent to you with your next issue of the "Bulb Garden." If you wish to order from that list, you must be current with your dues for 2011. If you have not yet renewed, please go to our website http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org and follow the instructions for renewing. Your future participation in the BX, and your receipt of our publications are also dependent on your being current with your dues. And if you have not yet joined, please do so as soon as possible, so you won't miss out on anything. Only dues-paying members can participate in the New Year Sale or in the frequent BX offerings. Happy New Year, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From adam14113@ameritech.net Mon Jan 10 17:12:05 2011 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: OT - Invasive Snakes Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 16:12:07 -0600 But it provides jobs, Jim! So that others can come along and say it's wasteful. Sorry guys, Off topic. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McKenney" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] OT - Invasive Snakes > These discussions about invasive species perplex me. > > > > If the basic assumption is that invasive species must be eliminated, then > that has some unfortunate consequences. Let's do a reductio ad absurdum > here: since the resources to eliminate all invasive species are not likely > to exist (we won't bother to kill pythons in Alaska), let's agree to > confine > our elimination efforts to only the most invasive species and the ones > which > have had the greatest adverse effects on indigenous plants and animals. > > > > OK, so we look around and try to determine which species that is. > Hmmm.let's > see, would that be starlings? Pigeons? Kudzu? Oops, .it's pretty obvious > that the species which has worked hardest to attain that distinction is > Homo > sapiens, a species not native to the Americas. And of the invasive > tendencies of this species, among the most disruptive have been those > which > result from agricultural activity (billions of acres bereft of their > biological patrimony and the substitution of several non-native plant and > animal species), road building (which has produced a slaughterhouse for > those native animals which survive the road building itself), and the > recycling of stage one destructive activities like farming into stage two > destructive activities such as housing developments..well, the list could > go > on and on. > > > > Obviously the ethical thing to do is to eliminate ourselves from the New > World and allow North, Central and South America to return to the > paradises > they presumably were before "we" got here and wrecked it. > > > > But that's no fun, and since so many of our cultural myths promote us into > the role of God's representatives here on earth, we'll exempt ourselves in > deference to the wishes of the Deity and get on with trying to maintain a > Disneyland-like similitude of the American Ur-landscape. Hmm.too bad about > the megafauna, passenger pigeons, Carolina parakeet and those others. > We'll > have to do some virtual versions to fill the void. And what's more > important, the ivory billed woodpecker's need for vast lowland forest > tracts > or our need for toilet paper and newsprint? Come on, it's a no brainer. > And > as for that old farm field you're going to restore as a "natural" > landscape, > old timers seem to be divided over whether it was originally a bog or an > upland hardwood forest. Let's make it a prairie instead, and add a few > patriotic buffalo to keep the crowds happy. > > > > And soon we'll be 9 billion strong. We must be right because there are so > many of us. > > > > If Malthus could see what's happening now, I wonder if he would be glad > that > he lived and died in the world as he knew it. He predicted our date with > destiny, and we seem to be doing everything in our power to test his > hypothesis and bring it on. . > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From bulborum@gmail.com Tue Jan 11 06:59:40 2011 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: YouTube - Mark & Clark band - Worn down piano Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:59:39 +0100 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNPtnEy6ajA From bulborum@gmail.com Tue Jan 11 07:01:42 2011 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: song Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:01:41 +0100 Sorry I pushed the wrong button Roland -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Jan 11 08:24:29 2011 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Crocuses Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 07:24:21 -0600 Friends, In these dim days of mid-winter, crocuses promise the first breath of spring. Timber Press is days away from releasing "Crocuses: A Complete Guide to the Genus" by Janis Ruksans with a foreword by Brian Mathew. List Price is $45 although it is at Amazon for under $27. It doesn't look like an update to Mathew's monograph, but a garden friendly treatment - complete with numerous color photos. Have not seen it yet, but it sure is tempting. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From btankers@gmail.com Tue Jan 11 10:19:45 2011 Message-Id: From: Boyce Tankersley Subject: Crocuses Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:19:43 -0600 Thanks for the heads up Jim - will add that to my wish list. Along with the Crocuses (tomassinianus is one of the few reliable species in Chicago), the Colchicum szovitsii and Merendera trigyna are treasures to be enjoyed when winter finally gives up its grip. Got a laugh yesterday when I was contacted to see if the snowdrops were flowering - sure, 12th coldest December in the last 150 years and temperatures running consistently below freezing throughout the month of January. Oh well, cashing in some frequent flier miles before they expire and heading to southern New Mexico to visit relatives. With any luck, they will have had some nice moisture in late fall/early winter and some of the wild flowers will be blooming at lower elevations. Boyce Tankersley in a very frozen Chicago. On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 7:24 AM, James Waddick wrote: > Friends, > In these dim days of mid-winter, crocuses promise the first breath > of spring. > > From msittner@mcn.org Tue Jan 11 12:19:54 2011 Message-Id: <20110111171951.AFA5F4C073@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Eastern Cape Trip Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:16:57 -0800 Hi, Last year at this time my husband and I were on a trip to the Eastern Cape with friends that was led by Cameron McMaster. One of the disadvantages of being an administrator for the wiki is that I often don't have time to add our pictures as I check additions and help others. So I still haven't added a lot of the pictures from that trip. Since it has been unusually cold here in Northern California even though I know it is nothing compared to what it is like for some of the rest of you, I'd like to remember that trip by adding some photos every day to the wiki (if I can find time). Perhaps it will allow me to feel the warmth of the South African summer. So I'm going to take a break from some of the administrative work to add photos from this trip. Since I've gotten a late start (our first day to take pictures was January 7), it may have to extend a bit on the other end. Cameron is leading a trip like this one for the Alpine Garden Society at the moment with some of the members of this list participating and there are many others on this list who have also gone with him who may enjoy remembering that special time. The photo for today was taken at Satan's Nek. It was overcast, misty finally leading to rain which is reflected in the photos. Cameron led us to a spot where Crocosmia masoniorum was blooming with Agapanthus praecox. It was a little challenging getting to this spot and also challenging to get close enough for a shot. Luckily for me many of the South African friends in this group insisted I'd want to see this and suggested places to put my feet safely to get there and offered helpful hand holds as well. Photos from Cameron and my husband, Bob Rutemoeller. Mary Sue From mikemace@att.net Tue Jan 11 12:58:21 2011 Message-Id: <002101cbb1b9$1d7cb7d0$58762770$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Lewisia Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:58:12 -0800 Donnie wrote: >> Does anyone know where I can get some less common species like kellogii? Or claytonia seeds? Sorry for the slow response. Your best bet used to be Northwest Native Seed, but unfortunately it's now defunct and there is no real replacement. You can search for Lewisia on the PBS Sources page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Sources Scroll down until you see the search box embedded in the text. It returns several hits for Lewisia, but I am not sure how rare they are. You might also try the NARGS seed exchange. Good luck, Mike San Jose, CA From adam14113@ameritech.net Tue Jan 11 13:46:54 2011 Message-Id: <2EEF169F4FA548D49A0AA2E4D61380D7@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Lewisia Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:46:53 -0600 Claytonia virginica is offered by Prairie Moon Nursery. I just type the genus and species into the Dogpile browser and a few sources turn up. Not all may be operative. Try it. Dogpile has a betterm more refined search engine than Google ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Mace" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Lewisia > Donnie wrote: > >>> Does anyone know where I can get some less common species like kellogii? > Or > claytonia seeds? > > Sorry for the slow response. > > Your best bet used to be Northwest Native Seed, but unfortunately it's now > defunct and there is no real replacement. > > You can search for Lewisia on the PBS Sources page: > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Sources > > Scroll down until you see the search box embedded in the text. It returns > several hits for Lewisia, but I am not sure how rare they are. > > You might also try the NARGS seed exchange. > > Good luck, > > Mike > San Jose, CA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From adam14113@ameritech.net Tue Jan 11 14:07:43 2011 Message-Id: <739C370C031B4A7FB6CEB0354B611D4B@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Lewisia seeds-- Follow up to last message. Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:07:42 -0600 A search technique that often works for this kind of thing is to type in to Dogpile's browser the name of the state, and-- native plant seeds--,f.i. Idaho native plant seeds, or -- California native plant seeds. A list of specialty nurseries comes up, (varies by state) some with catalogs, lists , some with eMails and phone numbers for inquiry. Sometimes a small ecological conservation group is listed that specializes in restoration of an area. I found this valuable when searching for high altitude mimulus. Many leads. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Mace" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Lewisia > Donnie wrote: > >>> Does anyone know where I can get some less common species like kellogii? > Or > claytonia seeds? > > Sorry for the slow response. > > Your best bet used to be Northwest Native Seed, but unfortunately it's now > defunct and there is no real replacement. > > You can search for Lewisia on the PBS Sources page: > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Sources > > Scroll down until you see the search box embedded in the text. It returns > several hits for Lewisia, but I am not sure how rare they are. > > You might also try the NARGS seed exchange. > > Good luck, > > Mike > San Jose, CA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ds429@comcast.net Tue Jan 11 16:48:21 2011 Message-Id: <000001cbb1d9$59b9cec0$0d2d6c40$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 265 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:48:57 -0500 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 264" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Patty Colville: 1. Seeds of Haemanthus coccineus 2. Seed of Clivia gardenia From Mary Sue Ittner: 3. Seed of Eucomis comosa - summer growing and flowering 4. Seed of Gladiolus carmineus - fall blooming before the leaves, winter growing, flowers within the sight of the ocean so probably prefers climates not too cold or hot. I have sprinkled seed around my property on the northern California coast and delight each fall when they bloom in many different places 5. Seed of Hesperoxiphion peruvianum - summer growing, late summer, fall blooming. This past year new flowers were produced for about three months, every few days even though I didn't deadhead which is supposed to prolong bloom, but may not matter. The last bloom was in early December, but I finally moved it into the greenhouse since we are now getting a lot of rain and colder temperatures and will dry it off. 6. Nerine hybrid seed - I realized recently when a pot of bulbs I grew from seed produced very different colored and sized bulbs, that I should have probably been identifying all the seed I have donated as Nerine hybrid seed (fall blooming on plants that were dormant in summer) From Dell Sherk: 7. Seedling bulbs of Hippeastrum morelianum (few) 8. Seedling bulbs of Hippeastrum glaucescens (few) 9. Seedling bulbs of Hippeastrum blossfeldiae (few) 10. Seedling bulbs of Dell's cross of Hippeastrum hybrid 'Exotica' x Marvin Ellenbecker complex cross {[Hippeastrum pardinum x (H. puniceum x H. evansiae)] x H. papilio} 11. Small offsets of Haemanthus pauculifolius 12. Small offsets of Griffinia espiritensis espiritensis SCALY RHIZOMES: 13. Achimenes 'Yellow Beauty' 14. Achimenes, tiny red 15. Achimenes, purple 16. Achimenes, pink 17. Eucodonia hybrids Thank you, Patty, and Mary Sue !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From adam14113@ameritech.net Tue Jan 11 17:09:25 2011 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Pacific BX 265 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:09:30 -0600 Dell--------- I notice an error! BX264 or BX265? I want the Nerine bulblets: No. 10. You might want to send a correction if I'm riiht ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dell Sherk" To: "General PBS forum" ; "'Roger Macfarlane'" ; "'Mark Wilcox'" Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 3:48 PM Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 265 > Dear All, > > > > The items listed below have been donated by our members to be > shared. > > > > If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me > PRIVATELY > at . Include "BX 264" in the subject line. > > > > Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not > specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, > too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first > come, > first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, > included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) > (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, > > please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing > and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. > > > > PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A > SURCHARGE > ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. > > > > Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not > members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO > MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take > advantage > of future offers such as this. Go to our website: > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... > > > > If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the > PBS,(Donors > will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their > donations.), > please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: > > > > Dell Sherk > > 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. > > New Hope, PA, 18938 > > USA > > > > Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. > > > > I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. > > IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! > > > From Patty Colville: > > 1. Seeds of Haemanthus coccineus > 2. Seed of Clivia gardenia > > From Mary Sue Ittner: > > 3. Seed of Eucomis comosa - summer growing and flowering > > 4. Seed of Gladiolus carmineus - fall blooming before the leaves, winter > growing, flowers within the sight of the ocean so probably prefers > climates > not too cold or hot. I have sprinkled seed around my property on the > northern California coast and delight each fall when they bloom in many > different places > > 5. Seed of Hesperoxiphion peruvianum - summer growing, late summer, fall > blooming. This past year new flowers were produced for about three months, > every few days even though I didn't deadhead which is supposed to prolong > bloom, but may not matter. The last bloom was in early December, but I > finally moved it into the greenhouse since we are now getting a lot of > rain > and colder temperatures and will dry it off. > > 6. Nerine hybrid seed - I realized recently when a pot of bulbs I grew > from > seed produced very different colored and sized bulbs, that I should have > probably been identifying all the seed I have donated as Nerine hybrid > seed > (fall blooming on plants that were dormant in summer) > > From Dell Sherk: > > 7. Seedling bulbs of Hippeastrum morelianum (few) > 8. Seedling bulbs of Hippeastrum glaucescens (few) > 9. Seedling bulbs of Hippeastrum blossfeldiae (few) > 10. Seedling bulbs of Dell's cross of Hippeastrum hybrid 'Exotica' x > Marvin > Ellenbecker complex cross {[Hippeastrum pardinum x (H. puniceum > x H. evansiae)] x H. papilio} > 11. Small offsets of Haemanthus pauculifolius > 12. Small offsets of Griffinia espiritensis espiritensis > > SCALY RHIZOMES: > > 13. Achimenes 'Yellow Beauty' > 14. Achimenes, tiny red > 15. Achimenes, purple > 16. Achimenes, pink > 17. Eucodonia hybrids > > Thank you, Patty, and Mary Sue !! > > Best wishes, > Dell > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kimarj@aol.com Tue Jan 11 22:11:56 2011 Message-Id: <8CD801D95EE635D-A48-4D1F@webmail-d046.sysops.aol.com> From: kimarj@aol.com Subject: Pacific BX 265 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 22:11:49 -0500 (EST) Hi Dell I would like #1 #11 Thank you! Kim Glenn 1629 East Duval Phila PA 19138 -----Original Message----- From: Dell Sherk To: General PBS forum ; 'Roger Macfarlane' ; 'Mark Wilcox' Sent: Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:48 pm Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 265 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 264" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Patty Colville: 1. Seeds of Haemanthus coccineus 2. Seed of Clivia gardenia From Mary Sue Ittner: 3. Seed of Eucomis comosa - summer growing and flowering 4. Seed of Gladiolus carmineus - fall blooming before the leaves, winter growing, flowers within the sight of the ocean so probably prefers climates not too cold or hot. I have sprinkled seed around my property on the northern California coast and delight each fall when they bloom in many different places 5. Seed of Hesperoxiphion peruvianum - summer growing, late summer, fall blooming. This past year new flowers were produced for about three months, every few days even though I didn't deadhead which is supposed to prolong bloom, but may not matter. The last bloom was in early December, but I finally moved it into the greenhouse since we are now getting a lot of rain and colder temperatures and will dry it off. 6. Nerine hybrid seed - I realized recently when a pot of bulbs I grew from seed produced very different colored and sized bulbs, that I should have probably been identifying all the seed I have donated as Nerine hybrid seed (fall blooming on plants that were dormant in summer) From Dell Sherk: 7. Seedling bulbs of Hippeastrum morelianum (few) 8. Seedling bulbs of Hippeastrum glaucescens (few) 9. Seedling bulbs of Hippeastrum blossfeldiae (few) 10. Seedling bulbs of Dell's cross of Hippeastrum hybrid 'Exotica' x Marvin Ellenbecker complex cross {[Hippeastrum pardinum x (H. puniceum x H. evansiae)] x H. papilio} 11. Small offsets of Haemanthus pauculifolius 12. Small offsets of Griffinia espiritensis espiritensis SCALY RHIZOMES: 13. Achimenes 'Yellow Beauty' 14. Achimenes, tiny red 15. Achimenes, purple 16. Achimenes, pink 17. Eucodonia hybrids Thank you, Patty, and Mary Sue !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kimarj@aol.com Tue Jan 11 22:14:42 2011 Message-Id: <8CD801DF7528E07-A48-4D8E@webmail-d046.sysops.aol.com> From: kimarj@aol.com Subject: Pacific BX 265 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 22:14:32 -0500 (EST) I am a member : ) -----Original Message----- From: kimarj To: pbs Sent: Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:12 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 265 Hi Dell I would like #1 #11 Thank you! Kim Glenn 1629 East Duval Phila PA 19138 -----Original Message----- From: Dell Sherk To: General PBS forum ; 'Roger Macfarlane' ; 'Mark Wilcox' Sent: Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:48 pm Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 265 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 264" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Patty Colville: 1. Seeds of Haemanthus coccineus 2. Seed of Clivia gardenia From Mary Sue Ittner: 3. Seed of Eucomis comosa - summer growing and flowering 4. Seed of Gladiolus carmineus - fall blooming before the leaves, winter growing, flowers within the sight of the ocean so probably prefers climates not too cold or hot. I have sprinkled seed around my property on the northern California coast and delight each fall when they bloom in many different places 5. Seed of Hesperoxiphion peruvianum - summer growing, late summer, fall blooming. This past year new flowers were produced for about three months, every few days even though I didn't deadhead which is supposed to prolong bloom, but may not matter. The last bloom was in early December, but I finally moved it into the greenhouse since we are now getting a lot of rain and colder temperatures and will dry it off. 6. Nerine hybrid seed - I realized recently when a pot of bulbs I grew from seed produced very different colored and sized bulbs, that I should have probably been identifying all the seed I have donated as Nerine hybrid seed (fall blooming on plants that were dormant in summer) From Dell Sherk: 7. Seedling bulbs of Hippeastrum morelianum (few) 8. Seedling bulbs of Hippeastrum glaucescens (few) 9. Seedling bulbs of Hippeastrum blossfeldiae (few) 10. Seedling bulbs of Dell's cross of Hippeastrum hybrid 'Exotica' x Marvin Ellenbecker complex cross {[Hippeastrum pardinum x (H. puniceum x H. evansiae)] x H. papilio} 11. Small offsets of Haemanthus pauculifolius 12. Small offsets of Griffinia espiritensis espiritensis SCALY RHIZOMES: 13. Achimenes 'Yellow Beauty' 14. Achimenes, tiny red 15. Achimenes, purple 16. Achimenes, pink 17. Eucodonia hybrids Thank you, Patty, and Mary Sue !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ds429@comcast.net Wed Jan 12 08:14:12 2011 Message-Id: <009501cbb25a$b1ec1130$15c43390$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 265 CLOSED Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:14:50 -0500 Packages should go out after the weekend. Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From msittner@mcn.org Wed Jan 12 10:48:22 2011 Message-Id: <20110112154815.A9EBD4C020@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Eastern Cape Trip Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 07:34:36 -0800 Although much of the Eastern Cape is grassland, we found a lot of plants growing on rock faces or in crevices in rocks. Some of these were impossible to get close enough to photograph. Yesterday I showed pictures of a couple of plants growing on rocks. Today there are some we saw in Glen Avon. The first was selected as the plant of the day, Scadoxus puniceus. We already have it well pictured on the wiki, but here are a few more of it growing in rock crevices or near rocks (second row of photos). In the same area another plant growing on rocks close enough to photograph was Haemanthus albiflos (last photo). Yesterday I referenced an Agapanthus praecox. Here are a couple more habitat photos of it. The one in Glen Avon was impossible to get very close to. Also on the rocks was a Cyrtanthus, probably C. macowanii but the experts had interesting discussions each evening about what we saw and it seems C. macowanii and C. epiphyticus in the wild are challenging to tell apart. I'll be adding more photos of the two of them later where we were close enough to get a better photo. The other photos of Agapanthus praecox were taken at Gaika's Kop. (first row of photos) It does seem like some of the Agapanthus praecox we saw in the wild have spectacular views. Finally at Glen Avon we also saw growing in a rock crevice, Chlorophytum comosm. Mary Sue From kimcmich@hotmail.com Wed Jan 12 11:15:21 2011 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: Eastern Cape Trip Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:15:16 -0800 Marry Sue, I envy your trip! The H. albiflos image is not of H. albiflos - I doesn't seem to be a Haemanthus at all. Perhaps a Scadoxus? -| Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 07:34:36 -0800 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > From: msittner@mcn.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] Eastern Cape Trip > > Although much of the Eastern Cape is grassland, we found a lot of > plants growing on rock faces or in crevices in rocks. Some of these > were impossible to get close enough to photograph. Yesterday I showed > pictures of a couple of plants growing on rocks. Today there are some > we saw in Glen Avon. > > The first was selected as the plant of the day, Scadoxus puniceus. We > already have it well pictured on the wiki, but here are a few more of > it growing in rock crevices or near rocks (second row of photos). > > > In the same area another plant growing on rocks close enough to > photograph was Haemanthus albiflos (last photo). > > > Yesterday I referenced an Agapanthus praecox. Here are a couple more > habitat photos of it. The one in Glen Avon was impossible to get very > close to. Also on the rocks was a Cyrtanthus, probably C. macowanii > but the experts had interesting discussions each evening about what > we saw and it seems C. macowanii and C. epiphyticus in the wild are > challenging to tell apart. I'll be adding more photos of the two of > them later where we were close enough to get a better photo. The > other photos of Agapanthus praecox were taken at Gaika's Kop. (first > row of photos) It does seem like some of the Agapanthus praecox we > saw in the wild have spectacular views. > > > Finally at Glen Avon we also saw growing in a rock crevice, > Chlorophytum comosm. > > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kimcmich@hotmail.com Wed Jan 12 11:23:41 2011 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: Eastern Cape Trip Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:23:38 -0800 Greetings, Sorry to misspell your name, Mary Sue. The mis-identified bulb in the image could also be a Eucomis perhaps. Rather than make this only a typo correction email, I thought I'd toss in a few shots of my Boophones. The first is a haemanthoides and the second is sp. Aus. -| From: kimcmich@hotmail.com > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:15:16 -0800 > Subject: Re: [pbs] Eastern Cape Trip > > > Marry Sue, > > I envy your trip! > > The H. albiflos image is not of H. albiflos - I doesn't seem to be a Haemanthus at all. Perhaps a Scadoxus? > > -| > > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 07:34:36 -0800 > > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > From: msittner@mcn.org > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Eastern Cape Trip > > > > Although much of the Eastern Cape is grassland, we found a lot of > > plants growing on rock faces or in crevices in rocks. Some of these > > were impossible to get close enough to photograph. Yesterday I showed > > pictures of a couple of plants growing on rocks. Today there are some > > we saw in Glen Avon. > > > > The first was selected as the plant of the day, Scadoxus puniceus. We > > already have it well pictured on the wiki, but here are a few more of > > it growing in rock crevices or near rocks (second row of photos). > > > > > > In the same area another plant growing on rocks close enough to > > photograph was Haemanthus albiflos (last photo). > > > > > > Yesterday I referenced an Agapanthus praecox. Here are a couple more > > habitat photos of it. The one in Glen Avon was impossible to get very > > close to. Also on the rocks was a Cyrtanthus, probably C. macowanii > > but the experts had interesting discussions each evening about what > > we saw and it seems C. macowanii and C. epiphyticus in the wild are > > challenging to tell apart. I'll be adding more photos of the two of > > them later where we were close enough to get a better photo. The > > other photos of Agapanthus praecox were taken at Gaika's Kop. (first > > row of photos) It does seem like some of the Agapanthus praecox we > > saw in the wild have spectacular views. > > > > > > Finally at Glen Avon we also saw growing in a rock crevice, > > Chlorophytum comosm. > > > > > > Mary Sue > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kimcmich@hotmail.com Wed Jan 12 11:26:34 2011 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: Eastern Cape Trip Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:26:32 -0800 Greetings again, So it appears to be my morning! First a typo and then stripped-out thumbnails and the links associated with them. Delightful! Here are those image links again: Boophone haemanthoides: http://www.anexaminedlife.net/house_pics/DSCN1622.JPG Boophone sp. Aus: http://www.anexaminedlife.net/house_pics/DSCN1623.JPG Sorry for 3 emails with very little new to say! -| From: kimcmich@hotmail.com > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:23:38 -0800 > Subject: Re: [pbs] Eastern Cape Trip > > > Greetings, > > Sorry to misspell your name, Mary Sue. The mis-identified bulb in the image could also be a Eucomis perhaps. > > Rather than make this only a typo correction email, I thought I'd toss in a few shots of my Boophones. The first is a haemanthoides and the second is sp. Aus. > > > > > -| > > From: kimcmich@hotmail.com > > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:15:16 -0800 > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Eastern Cape Trip > > > > > > Marry Sue, > > > > I envy your trip! > > > > The H. albiflos image is not of H. albiflos - I doesn't seem to be a Haemanthus at all. Perhaps a Scadoxus? > > > > -| > > > > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 07:34:36 -0800 > > > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > From: msittner@mcn.org > > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Eastern Cape Trip > > > > > > Although much of the Eastern Cape is grassland, we found a lot of > > > plants growing on rock faces or in crevices in rocks. Some of these > > > were impossible to get close enough to photograph. Yesterday I showed > > > pictures of a couple of plants growing on rocks. Today there are some > > > we saw in Glen Avon. > > > > > > The first was selected as the plant of the day, Scadoxus puniceus. We > > > already have it well pictured on the wiki, but here are a few more of > > > it growing in rock crevices or near rocks (second row of photos). > > > > > > > > > In the same area another plant growing on rocks close enough to > > > photograph was Haemanthus albiflos (last photo). > > > > > > > > > Yesterday I referenced an Agapanthus praecox. Here are a couple more > > > habitat photos of it. The one in Glen Avon was impossible to get very > > > close to. Also on the rocks was a Cyrtanthus, probably C. macowanii > > > but the experts had interesting discussions each evening about what > > > we saw and it seems C. macowanii and C. epiphyticus in the wild are > > > challenging to tell apart. I'll be adding more photos of the two of > > > them later where we were close enough to get a better photo. The > > > other photos of Agapanthus praecox were taken at Gaika's Kop. (first > > > row of photos) It does seem like some of the Agapanthus praecox we > > > saw in the wild have spectacular views. > > > > > > > > > Finally at Glen Avon we also saw growing in a rock crevice, > > > Chlorophytum comosm. > > > > > > > > > Mary Sue > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Wed Jan 12 16:46:37 2011 Message-Id: <4D2E19EE.8070209@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Annual New Year Seed Clearance Sale Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 13:15:26 -0800 I keep busy and forget to go to websites for details I need. It would have been nice to see a general announcement to the forum with an amount and address to send a renewal. Dell Sherk wrote: > If you have not yet renewed, please go to our website > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org and follow the instructions for renewing. > Your future participation in th > From arnold140@verizon.net Wed Jan 12 17:09:13 2011 Message-Id: <1929559992.364752.1294870130539.JavaMail.root@vznit170072> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Annual Membership Dues Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 16:08:50 -0600 (CST) Marguerite makes a very good point. Due are $20.00 for Domestic and $25 for Overseas members. They can be PayPal-ed to me at arnold140@verizon.net or by traditional mail to; PBS C/O Arnold Trachtenberg 140 Lakeview Avenue Leonia, New Jersey 07605 Also any member with outstanding BX payments can send them along as well. If those little pink slips have vanished, drop me an offline note and I'll let you know how your account stands. Thanks, Arnold From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Wed Jan 12 19:19:30 2011 Message-Id: <4D2E44F8.1030805@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Annual Membership Dues Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 16:19:04 -0800 Thanks, Arnold. arnold140@verizon.net wrote: > Marguerite makes a very good point. > > Due are $20.00 for Domestic and $25 for Overseas members. > > They can be PayPal-ed to me at arnold140@verizon.net or by traditional mail to; > > PBS > C/O Arnold Trachtenberg > 140 Lakeview Avenue > Leonia, New Jersey 07605 > > Also any member with outstanding BX payments can send them along as well. > > If those little pink slips have vanished, drop me an offline note and I'll let you know how your account stands. > > Thanks, > > Arnold > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From kjblack@pacbell.net Wed Jan 12 20:07:08 2011 Message-Id: <882647.5225.qm@web80405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: blooming now - weedy Oxalis, Hymenocalis(?) and Hippeastrum x'Papilio' Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 17:07:05 -0800 (PST) Besides the very weedy O.pes-caprae, I have this pretty and somewhat less weedy Oxalis species blooming now, with pink flowers and redish stems:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5350165245/  http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5350164769/   What I believe to be Hymenocalis is also blooming now, albeit quite beaten down by recent heavy rains:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5350164377/   and finally a Hippeastrum x'Papilio' ... seemingly blooming 2 months early.  One scape has collapsed:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5350777042/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5350777378/   Ken San Diego,  CA USDA zone 10           From awilson@avonia.com Wed Jan 12 20:43:02 2011 Message-Id: <7C11CEAB7C5C4F199C329415944FC572@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: blooming now - weedy Oxalis, Hymenocalis(?) and Hippeastrum x'Papilio' Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 17:44:05 -0800 Ken, The oxalis looks like O. purpurea. I don't regard it as weedy here in San Diego. At least, it's nowhere near as bad as some of the other ones we've discussed in past month or so. In fact, I encourage it. The rodents do not seem to dig it up, something I cannot say is true for many other oxalis species. It forms small clumps and looks very pretty among trees. Considering the rains and cool temperatures we've had, the Hymenocallis looks excellent. I find 'Papilio' strange when it comes to its blooming time. Some years it blooms in September, even though it's meant to bloom in March or so. This year mine are starting to make a move but they're probably a month away. They are in part shade at this time of year, which does slow them down a bit. Andrew San Diego Besides the very weedy O.pes-caprae, I have this pretty and somewhat less weedy Oxalis species blooming now, with pink flowers and redish stems:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5350165245/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5350164769/   What I believe to be Hymenocalis is also blooming now, albeit quite beaten down by recent heavy rains:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5350164377/   and finally a Hippeastrum x'Papilio' ... seemingly blooming 2 months early.  One scape has collapsed:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5350777042/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5350777378/   Ken San Diego,  CA USDA zone 10   From Santoury@aol.com Wed Jan 12 20:49:42 2011 Message-Id: <8CD80DB3604B47C-1390-6736B@Webmail-m111.sysops.aol.com> From: santoury@aol.com Subject: blooming now - weedy Oxalis, Hymenocalis(?) and Hippeastrum x'Papilio' Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:49:12 -0500 Guys, My Papilio is in full bloom right now - only 2 blooms this time around - first time with this guy, so I couldn't say if this is unusual, or if the flowering period was unusual. -----Original Message----- From: AW To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Sent: Wed, Jan 12, 2011 8:44 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] blooming now - weedy Oxalis, Hymenocalis(?) and Hippeastrum x'Papilio' Ken, The oxalis looks like O. purpurea. I don't regard it as weedy here in San Diego. At least, it's nowhere near as bad as some of the other ones we've discussed in past month or so. In fact, I encourage it. The rodents do not seem to dig it up, something I cannot say is true for many other oxalis species. It forms small clumps and looks very pretty among trees. Considering the rains and cool temperatures we've had, the Hymenocallis looks excellent. I find 'Papilio' strange when it comes to its blooming time. Some years it blooms in September, even though it's meant to bloom in March or so. This year mine are starting to make a move but they're probably a month away. They are in part shade at this time of year, which does slow them down a bit. Andrew San Diego Besides the very weedy O.pes-caprae, I have this pretty and somewhat less weedy Oxalis species blooming now, with pink flowers and redish stems: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5350165245/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5350164769/ What I believe to be Hymenocalis is also blooming now, albeit quite beaten down by recent heavy rains: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5350164377/ and finally a Hippeastrum x'Papilio' ... seemingly blooming 2 months early. One scape has collapsed: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5350777042/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5350777378/ Ken San Diego, CA USDA zone 10 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kjblack@pacbell.net Wed Jan 12 21:20:02 2011 Message-Id: <963746.33605.qm@web80402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: blooming now - weedy Oxalis, Hymenocalis(?) and Hippeastrum x'Papilio' Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 18:19:59 -0800 (PST) Thanks, Andrew!   I thought perhaps it was O.purpurea also ... but I did not see the red, hairy stems in the pictures of it on the PBS Wiki.  This one is very weedy for me in shaded areas ... I only see it rarely where I get full sun, so that seems in line with your comments.  O.pes-caprae, for me ... seems to keep its weediness just to sunny areas.  I also have what I believe to be O.hirta ... it seems to like the expansion joints in concrete in sunny areas and between the bricks in my patio ... more easily eradicated compared to the other two.  I actually 'like' all three ... but would prefer the O.pes-caprae keep its spectacular displays to my neighbors' yards!  It sprouts up and grows between the spines of my barrel cacti and is practically impossible to eradicate.     Ken From: AW awilson@avonia.com The oxalis looks like O. purpurea. I don't regard it as weedy here in San Diego ... It forms small clumps and looks very pretty among trees ... Considering the rains and cool temperatures we've had, the Hymenocallis looks excellent. I find 'Papilio' strange when it comes to its blooming time. Some years it blooms in September, even though it's meant to bloom in March or so. This year mine are starting to make a move but they're probably a month away. They are in part shade at this time of year, which does slow them down a bit. Andrew San Diego From kyle.b1@xtra.co.nz Wed Jan 12 22:23:03 2011 Message-Id: From: Kiyel Boland Subject: blooming now - weedy Oxalis, Hymenocalis(?) and Hippeastrum x'Papilio' Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 16:22:56 +1300 Hi All, Im pretty sure its Oxalis eckloniana sonderi. I think that its now In the O. purpurea group. Cheers Kiyel. Kiyel Boland In Sunny Napier. New Zealand. http://www.savagegardenz.co.nz http://public.fotki.com/savagegardenz On 13/01/2011, at 2:44 PM, AW wrote: > Ken, > > The oxalis looks like O. purpurea. I don't regard it as weedy here in San > Diego. At least, it's nowhere near as bad as some of the other ones we've > discussed in past month or so. In fact, I encourage it. The rodents do not > seem to dig it up, something I cannot say is true for many other oxalis > species. It forms small clumps and looks very pretty among trees. > > Considering the rains and cool temperatures we've had, the Hymenocallis > looks excellent. > > I find 'Papilio' strange when it comes to its blooming time. Some years it > blooms in September, even though it's meant to bloom in March or so. This > year mine are starting to make a move but they're probably a month away. > They are in part shade at this time of year, which does slow them down a > bit. > > Andrew > San Diego > > > Besides the very weedy O.pes-caprae, I have this pretty and somewhat less > weedy Oxalis species blooming now, with pink flowers and redish stems: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5350165245/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5350164769/ > > What I believe to be Hymenocalis is also blooming now, albeit quite beaten > down by recent heavy rains: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5350164377/ > > and finally a Hippeastrum x'Papilio' ... seemingly blooming 2 months early. > One scape has collapsed: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5350777042/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/5350777378/ > > Ken > San Diego, CA > USDA zone 10 > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Jan 12 22:43:54 2011 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: blooming now - in the greenhouse. Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 21:42:53 -0600 Dear Friends, I have a dozen open blooms on Lapeirousa oreogena on a couple bulbs I got from Mark Mazer. He says my 'babies' are slightly ahead of the parent bulbs in North Carolina. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Lapeirousia The color is an intense shade more blue than the picture suggests. Jewel-like coloration and interesting foliage too. Total height maybe 4 inches, but at this time of year and with overnight temps down below 0 F and 7 inches of snow on the ground, I enjoy this little pot on the window sill. A few last bloom on Lachenalia allioides, too, a couple flowers on Ipheion uniflorum cvs, Both white and typical pink Tulbaghia simmleri (aka fragrans). I am hoping to get these to synchronize enough to get cross pollination and seeds. I don't get seed on either alone. Does anyone? A few non bulbous odds and ends. Even with outside tempers VERY cold, a few hours of sunshine makes it very toasty in the green house. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From cvschalkwyk@lantic.net Thu Jan 13 06:48:41 2011 Message-Id: From: "Christiaan van Schalkwyk" Subject: blooming now - weedy Oxalis - now O purpurea and O eckloniana Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 13:09:14 +0200 > Hi All, > Im pretty sure its Oxalis eckloniana sonderi. I think that its now In the > O. purpurea group. That is definitely not O eckloniana, and O eckloniana and O purpurea are not closely related. Unfortunately a lavender form of O purpurea has been circulated widely under the O eckloniana sonderii label. The fact that Thunberg originally and in error described O eckloniana var sonderi as O purpurea AFTER O purpurea was described by Linnaes in 1753 may also be a problem, but this has been rectified in 1939 by Salter. (Salter reinstuted the name O purpurea in the place of O variabilis (Jacq), and renamed the O purpurea sensu Thunberg to O exckloniana var sonderii) The two species are easily told apart when in flower - O purpurea have two bracts BELOW the middle of the peduncle (flower stem), while the one or two bracts of O eckloniana are close to the calyx, i.e. rather HIGH on the peduncle. Furthermore, O eckloniana belongs to the section Sagittatae. If you pull the corolla away so that the stamens and styles are left intact, the short and medium stamens or styles opens up and spread wide. Those of the other sections (such as section stictophylla, to which O purpurea (L) belongs) stay close together. The bulbs are also different, O eckloniana usually have smooth light brown tunics, while that of O purpurea are normally very dark to black, gummy and irregular. There are many forms of both species and thus the leaves (number of leaflets and shape), the degree of hairyness and other characters are useless for identification purposes. The Oxalis pictured is probably O. purpurea (L). Christiaan From msittner@mcn.org Thu Jan 13 11:11:38 2011 Message-Id: <20110113161134.741BD4C348@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Eastern Cape Trip Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 08:11:04 -0800 Hi, Sorry to add an incorrectly named photo. Haemanthus albiflos was on our plant list, but it doesn't look like we got a photo of it. Perhaps it was one of those on high rocky cliffs. Pieter van der Walt suspects the photo is of a morph of Scadoxus puniceus with a very short reduced pseudostem which is not uncommon in the Eastern Cape so I relocated it to the species. At the same place I showed photos from yesterday we saw growing on a rock a very tiny plant with a very tiny flower not so easy to photograph. It is one of those plants previously considered a different genus, Litanthus now rolled into Drimia, Drimia uniflora. I do find the variety of flowers are considered now to belong to Drimia quite broad. The photos I'm sharing today were taken in the afternoon of same day, but in a different place, The Waainek Wild Flower Reserve. Cameron writes about it on his web site: They had had unusually dry weather so we weren't sure what we'd see and the day was overcast and cool which also could have been a disadvantage. It was a grassy area, probably not as green as it is some years, but we did find a few very special flowers. It was like a treasure hunt where you found one of what you were looking for. We found one Haemanthus carneus growing in a rocky spot: Cameron has been there at different times so the wiki entry shows a progression from beginning to end. This is a rare plant so we were pleased to see it. And we found a Cyrtanthus macowanii. This is the plant I mentioned yesterday was probably growing on the rocks with the Agapanthus and one that our experts compared with Cyrtanthus epiphyticus. There didn't seem to be consensus about how these two are different. Of interest to me since it was so different was a plant that we saw a number of that we finally sorted out as Drimia macrantha. Cameron told us we were lucky to see it in bloom since the flowers open late in the day. He speculated that the weather was in our favor. I wasn't sure where to put it on the wiki. It has been considered an Ornithogalum, a Urginea, and most recently Thuranthos nocturnale which is the name Cameron knew. It is mentioned in Cape Plants as now belonging to Drimia, but there is no description of it and searching on the net all I could find was names (no photos, but apparently there are some herbarium specimens). I've added it to the Drimia group page, but if someone wants to suggest another possibility, let me know. The last geophyte we photographed that afternoon was Albuca virens, formerly known as Ornithogalum tenuifolium Mary Sue From plicht@berkeley.edu Thu Jan 13 11:44:02 2011 Message-Id: <4D2F2BCA.9040202@berkeley.edu> From: Paul Licht Subject: Eastern Cape Trip Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 08:43:54 -0800 Mary Sue I'm enjoying this discourse and getting ideas. We started our Eastern Cape exhibit renovation with the construction of 'cycad' hill 3 years ago, and have now just finished a major redoing of another section of this part of the Garden. We had to remove lots of hybrid Babiana and relocate some very large Merwilla, but now we have some prime real estate for planting new material. I mention this now because it might be a good time to get some new and interesting Eastern Cape material if anyone in the PBS group has something interesting of documented wild origin: wild collected bulbs or seeds from native habitats (we can use offsets of such bulbs from gardens but not seeds produced in 'captivity') Regards, Paul Paul Licht, Director Univ. California Botanical Garden 200 Centennial Drive Berkeley, CA 94720 (510)-643-8999 http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu On 1/13/2011 8:11 AM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Hi, > > Sorry to add an incorrectly named photo. Haemanthus albiflos was on > our plant list, but it doesn't look like we got a photo of it. Perhaps > it was one of those on high rocky cliffs. Pieter van der Walt suspects > the photo is of a morph of Scadoxus puniceus with a very short reduced > pseudostem which is not uncommon in the Eastern Cape so I relocated it > to the species. > > At the same place I showed photos from yesterday we saw growing on a > rock a very tiny plant with a very tiny flower not so easy to > photograph. It is one of those plants previously considered a > different genus, Litanthus now rolled into Drimia, Drimia uniflora. > > I do find the variety of flowers are considered now to belong to > Drimia quite broad. > > The photos I'm sharing today were taken in the afternoon of same day, > but in a different place, The Waainek Wild Flower Reserve. Cameron > writes about it on his web site: > > > They had had unusually dry weather so we weren't sure what we'd see > and the day was overcast and cool which also could have been a > disadvantage. It was a grassy area, probably not as green as it is > some years, but we did find a few very special flowers. It was like a > treasure hunt where you found one of what you were looking for. > > We found one Haemanthus carneus growing in a rocky spot: > > > Cameron has been there at different times so the wiki entry shows a > progression from beginning to end. This is a rare plant so we were > pleased to see it. > > And we found a Cyrtanthus macowanii. This is the plant I mentioned > yesterday was probably growing on the rocks with the Agapanthus and > one that our experts compared with Cyrtanthus epiphyticus. There > didn't seem to be consensus about how these two are different. > > > > Of interest to me since it was so different was a plant that we saw a > number of that we finally sorted out as Drimia macrantha. Cameron told > us we were lucky to see it in bloom since the flowers open late in the > day. He speculated that the weather was in our favor. I wasn't sure > where to put it on the wiki. It has been considered an Ornithogalum, a > Urginea, and most recently Thuranthos nocturnale which is the name > Cameron knew. It is mentioned in Cape Plants as now belonging to > Drimia, but there is no description of it and searching on the net all > I could find was names (no photos, but apparently there are some > herbarium specimens). I've added it to the Drimia group page, but if > someone wants to suggest another possibility, let me know. > > > > The last geophyte we photographed that afternoon was Albuca virens, > formerly known as Ornithogalum tenuifolium > > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From mikemace@att.net Thu Jan 13 12:27:29 2011 Message-Id: <001401cbb347$262bdd90$728398b0$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Eastern Cape Trip Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 09:27:26 -0800 I am enjoying these write-ups, Mary Sue. Thanks for doing them! Mike From kyle.b1@xtra.co.nz Thu Jan 13 22:38:56 2011 Message-Id: <6B8DFC4A-437F-4662-A048-53B612E20FA2@xtra.co.nz> From: Kiyel Boland Subject: blooming now - weedy Oxalis - now O purpurea and O eckloniana Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 16:38:47 +1300 Thanks for that info Christiaan, I got the plant labeled as O.eckloniana sonderi. Will wait untill they flower again this season, and look for those features that you mentioned . Will just list it as a O. purpurea form. :) Cheers Kiyel Kiyel Boland In Sunny Napier. New Zealand. http://www.savagegardenz.co.nz http://public.fotki.com/savagegardenz On 14/01/2011, at 12:09 AM, Christiaan van Schalkwyk wrote: > > >> Hi All, >> Im pretty sure its Oxalis eckloniana sonderi. I think that its now In the O. purpurea group. > > That is definitely not O eckloniana, and O eckloniana and O purpurea are not closely related. Unfortunately a lavender form of O purpurea has been circulated widely under the O eckloniana sonderii label. The fact that Thunberg originally and in error described O eckloniana var sonderi as O purpurea AFTER O purpurea was described by Linnaes in 1753 may also be a problem, but this has been rectified in 1939 by Salter. (Salter reinstuted the name O purpurea in the place of O variabilis (Jacq), and renamed the O purpurea sensu Thunberg to O exckloniana var sonderii) > > The two species are easily told apart when in flower - O purpurea have two bracts BELOW the middle of the peduncle (flower stem), while the one or two bracts of O eckloniana are close to the calyx, i.e. rather HIGH on the peduncle. > > Furthermore, O eckloniana belongs to the section Sagittatae. If you pull the corolla away so that the stamens and styles are left intact, the short and medium stamens or styles opens up and spread wide. Those of the other sections (such as section stictophylla, to which O purpurea (L) belongs) stay close together. > > The bulbs are also different, O eckloniana usually have smooth light brown tunics, while that of O purpurea are normally very dark to black, gummy and irregular. There are many forms of both species and thus the leaves (number of leaflets and shape), the degree of hairyness and other characters are useless for identification purposes. > > The Oxalis pictured is probably O. purpurea (L). > > Christiaan > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From msittner@mcn.org Fri Jan 14 11:40:38 2011 Message-Id: <20110114164035.9EC0E4C0DA@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Eastern Cape Trip Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 08:39:38 -0800 Early in the trip we saw examples of Karoo-Namib vegetation and Karoo grassland. Cameron found us a field of Haemanthus montanus in bloom. We have photos of our entire group on their knees photographing different specimens. In the same field you had some starting and some still in fruit. Walking above a road cut we found a Spiloxene I had never heard of, Spiloxene trifurcillata. We were looking for Nerine huttoniae and did find one specimen, but not the usual representation as it was unusually dry in these areas. In an area with a lot of succulents we found Albuca setosa growing up through a shrub. Later in this very hot day we walked on the Goosen farm where we found Ammocharis coronica in bloom. We have a lot of photos of this already on the wiki, but I added some of ours as it was surprising to find anything about to bloom in this very dry habitat. We were thrilled to discover it. In this same spot we saw leaves of a newly described species of Albuca, Albuca crispa. Mary Sue From michaelcmace@gmail.com Fri Jan 14 15:01:34 2011 Message-Id: <002401cbb425$d53cc3b0$7fb64b10$@com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: A mystery bulb Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 12:01:26 -0800 Folks, PBS was contacted by Owen Robinson, who recently inherited a pot of bulbs among his grandmother's belongings. He wondered if we could identify the bulbs for him. I'll let Owen explain: ==== I can't recall what the flower is but I do have a photo of the bulb above the soil and leaves. All my gardening books and most stuff online just shows the flower which is why I thought I'd try you folks. If your members can help that would be great but in not, maybe I'll have to wait to see what it does. The link to the photo is as follows. http://www.flickr.com/photos/51868833@N08/ The bulbs were my grandmothers and probably have been around for 15 years or more. No idea where or when they were bought. The bulb is about 2-3" in diameter and the leaves grow to 18-24" above the bulb. I thought they might be amaryllis but the leaves are totally different. They grow in a layered pattern up from the bulb a ways before branching out a various heights. The plant is in a window that gets direct sun from sunrise until after lunch. I haven't been around the plant frequently until this year so I don't know when/if it blooms but it started producing leaves in late September (perhaps coincidentally shortly after I started watering it - so perhaps the timing this year is meaningless). One noticeable feature is the top of the bulb and lower part of the "stem" of leaves are covered with layers of thin material similar to garlic bulb covering. ==== Any ideas on what grandma was growing? Thanks, Mike From gmaculata@gmail.com Fri Jan 14 15:05:16 2011 Message-Id: From: Glen Lord Subject: A mystery bulb Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:05:13 -0500 Perhaps Crinum? On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Michael Mace wrote: > Folks, > > > > PBS was contacted by Owen Robinson, who recently inherited a pot of bulbs > among his grandmother's belongings. He wondered if we could identify the > bulbs for him. I'll let Owen explain: > > > > ==== > > > > I can't recall what the flower is but I do have a photo of the bulb above > the soil and leaves. All my gardening books and most stuff online just > shows the flower which is why I thought I'd try you folks. If your members > can help that would be great but in not, maybe I'll have to wait to see > what > it does. > > > > The link to the photo is as follows. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/51868833@N08/ > > > > The bulbs were my grandmothers and probably have been around for 15 years > or > more. No idea where or when they were bought. The bulb is about 2-3" in > diameter and the leaves grow to 18-24" above the bulb. I thought they > might > be amaryllis but the leaves are totally different. They grow in a layered > pattern up from the bulb a ways before branching out a various heights. The > plant is in a window that gets direct sun from sunrise until after lunch. > I > haven't been around the plant frequently until this year so I don't know > when/if it blooms but it started producing leaves in late September > (perhaps > coincidentally shortly after I started watering it - so perhaps the timing > this year is meaningless). One noticeable feature is the top of the bulb > and > lower part of the "stem" of leaves are covered with layers of thin material > similar to garlic bulb covering. > > > > ==== > > > > Any ideas on what grandma was growing? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Glen From alanidae@gmail.com Fri Jan 14 15:06:12 2011 Message-Id: From: Alani Davis Subject: A mystery bulb Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:06:07 -0500 Crinum moorei I am fairly sure. -- Alani Davis From jshields@indy.net Fri Jan 14 15:13:53 2011 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20110114151308.04555768@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: A mystery bulb Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:13:29 -0500 That's what it looks like to me as well. Jim Shields At 03:06 PM 1/14/2011 -0500, you wrote: >Crinum moorei I am fairly sure. > > >-- >Alani Davis >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 From bulborum@gmail.com Fri Jan 14 15:30:39 2011 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: A mystery bulb Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 21:30:38 +0100 Same for me Crinum moorei on a to dark place for a longer time Roland > Any ideas on what grandma was growing? -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From adam14113@ameritech.net Sat Jan 15 14:30:59 2011 Message-Id: <80C8B34910BC4B279646157C6CA92F6D@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Off topic--sorry! Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 13:31:03 -0600 Arnold? Did you get my PayPal dues payment?. It's not been picked up. And do you have more than one such account? PayPal is concerned ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dell Sherk" To: "General PBS forum" ; "'Roger Macfarlane'" ; "'Mark Wilcox'" Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 3:21 PM Subject: [pbs] Annual New Year Seed Clearance Sale > Dear PBS Members, > > This year, the list of extra seeds from the BX which are offered at a > reduced price will be sent to you with your next issue of the "Bulb > Garden." > If you wish to order from that list, you must be current with your dues > for > 2011. If you have not yet renewed, please go to our website > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org and follow the instructions for > renewing. > Your future participation in the BX, and your receipt of our publications > are also dependent on your being current with your dues. And if you have > not > yet joined, please do so as soon as possible, so you won't miss out on > anything. Only dues-paying members can participate in the New Year Sale or > in the frequent BX offerings. > > Happy New Year, > Dell > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From awilson@avonia.com Sat Jan 15 15:07:59 2011 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: blooming now - weedy Oxalis - now O purpurea and Oeckloniana Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 12:08:53 -0800 Dear Christiaan, A description of the botanical differences between species, such as you have given, is very useful. It complements the images we see on the Wiki. It would be useful to include botanical descriptions there if members do not object to the increase in the amount of text. Certainly, I would not. Andrew San Diego > Hi All, > Im pretty sure its Oxalis eckloniana sonderi. I think that its now In > the O. purpurea group. That is definitely not O eckloniana, and O eckloniana and O purpurea are not closely related. Unfortunately a lavender form of O purpurea has been circulated widely under the O eckloniana sonderii label. The fact that Thunberg originally and in error described O eckloniana var sonderi as O purpurea AFTER O purpurea was described by Linnaes in 1753 may also be a problem, but this has been rectified in 1939 by Salter. (Salter reinstuted the name O purpurea in the place of O variabilis (Jacq), and renamed the O purpurea sensu Thunberg to O exckloniana var sonderii) The two species are easily told apart when in flower - O purpurea have two bracts BELOW the middle of the peduncle (flower stem), while the one or two bracts of O eckloniana are close to the calyx, i.e. rather HIGH on the peduncle. Furthermore, O eckloniana belongs to the section Sagittatae. If you pull the corolla away so that the stamens and styles are left intact, the short and medium stamens or styles opens up and spread wide. Those of the other sections (such as section stictophylla, to which O purpurea (L) belongs) stay close together. The bulbs are also different, O eckloniana usually have smooth light brown tunics, while that of O purpurea are normally very dark to black, gummy and irregular. There are many forms of both species and thus the leaves (number of leaflets and shape), the degree of hairyness and other characters are useless for identification purposes. The Oxalis pictured is probably O. purpurea (L). Christiaan From arnold140@verizon.net Sat Jan 15 16:22:31 2011 Message-Id: <316224627.555330.1295126540035.JavaMail.root@vznit170072> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Off topic--sorry! Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 15:22:19 -0600 (CST) Adam: didn't come through. Check the address. It should be arnold140@verizon.net. Arnold From adam14113@ameritech.net Sat Jan 15 17:14:46 2011 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Off topic--sorry! Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 16:14:27 -0600 Thanks. I had it wrong. Done now,I think . ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 3:22 PM Subject: [pbs] Off topic--sorry! > Adam: > > didn't come through. > > Check the address. It should be > > arnold140@verizon.net. > > Arnold > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From mikemace@att.net Sat Jan 15 17:59:15 2011 Message-Id: <000e01cbb507$d3163e80$7942bb80$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: A mystery bulb Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 14:59:11 -0800 Alani wrote: >> Crinum moorei I am fairly sure. Thanks, everybody! I'll pass it along to Owen. Mike From pcamusa@hotmail.com Sat Jan 15 21:00:31 2011 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: Hymenocallis caterpillars Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 20:55:29 -0500 Every few years we get a huge number of very large black caterpillars (up to 6 inches) with narrow white/yellow bands that eat the endemic hymenocallis in the dunes here. Its the only pest I've seen eat these plants. They've already eaten a couple of thousand to the ground just in the two hundred yards or so near us. The smaller caterpillars eat the top leaf surface and leave the lower surface hanging down like floppy pieces of gauze while the larger ones eat the whole leaf. I've noticed for the first time this year that the caterpillars are also eating the large seeds which are still lying on the surface of the sand and starting to sprout. It looks like there won't be a new generation of hymenocallis this year. I'm still trying to ID the caterpillars. I have been told that they belong to what is locally called the money moth (Ascalapha odorata) which is a nocturnal black moth the size of a small bat. The caterpillar looks quite different from the money moth photos I've found. Has anyone else had experience with these critters or is there an entomologist on the list willing to take a look at a photo? Regards! Phil Taking a brief break in zone 11 (ostensibly) 26.608 N, 77.016 W From arnold140@verizon.net Sat Jan 15 22:21:24 2011 Message-Id: <992677705.568222.1295148075767.JavaMail.root@vznit170072> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Hymenocallis caterpillars Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 21:21:15 -0600 (CST) Phil: Send me a photo, I may have someone who can help. arnold140@verizon.net Jan 15, 2011 09:00:36 PM, pbs@lists.ibiblio.org wrote: Every few years we get a huge number of very large black caterpillars (up to 6 inches) with narrow white/yellow bands that eat the endemic hymenocallis in the dunes here. Its the only pest I've seen eat these plants. They've already eaten a couple of thousand to the ground just in the two hundred yards or so near us. The smaller caterpillars eat the top leaf surface and leave the lower surface hanging down like floppy pieces of gauze while the larger ones eat the whole leaf. I've noticed for the first time this year that the caterpillars are also eating the large seeds which are still lying on the surface of the sand and starting to sprout. It looks like there won't be a new generation of hymenocallis this year. I'm still trying to ID the caterpillars. I have been told that they belong to what is locally called the money moth (Ascalapha odorata) which is a nocturnal black moth the size of a small bat. The caterpillar looks quite different from the money moth photos I've found. Has anyone else had experience with these critters or is there an entomologist on the list willing to take a look at a photo? Regards! Phil Taking a brief break in zone 11 (ostensibly) 26.608 N, 77.016 W From adam14113@ameritech.net Sat Jan 15 22:23:20 2011 Message-Id: <4EFBC083349C45EFACF7D2A0F918420E@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Hymenocallis caterpillars Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 21:23:28 -0600 hi. TheRe's a website called What's That Bug? whic I've found usefuL for identification of insects and caterpillars. ----- Original Message ----- From: "P. C. Andrews" To: Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 7:55 PM Subject: [pbs] Hymenocallis caterpillars > > Every few years we get a huge number of very large black caterpillars (up > to 6 inches) with narrow white/yellow bands that eat the endemic > hymenocallis in the dunes here. Its the only pest I've seen eat these > plants. They've already eaten a couple of thousand to the ground just in > the two hundred yards or so near us. The smaller caterpillars eat the top > leaf surface and leave the lower surface hanging down like floppy pieces > of gauze while the larger ones eat the whole leaf. I've noticed for the > first time this year that the caterpillars are also eating the large seeds > which are still lying on the surface of the sand and starting to sprout. > It looks like there won't be a new generation of hymenocallis this year. > I'm still trying to ID the caterpillars. I have been told that they > belong to what is locally called the money moth (Ascalapha odorata) which > is a nocturnal black moth the size of a small bat. The caterpillar looks > quite different from the money moth photos I've found. > Has anyone else had experience with these critters or is there an > entomologist on the list willing to take a look at a photo? > Regards! > Phil > Taking a brief break in zone 11 (ostensibly) > 26.608 N, 77.016 W > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pasogal@ameritech.net Sat Jan 15 22:33:38 2011 Message-Id: <004601cbb52e$332ef6b0$998ce410$@net> From: "Annalee" Subject: Caterpillars Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 21:33:52 -0600 This is one of many useful ID sites on the web. Just type in Caterpillar identification and there are 5 or 6 of them. http://www.backyardnature.net/caterpil.htm From pasogal@ameritech.net Sat Jan 15 22:38:45 2011 Message-Id: <004701cbb52e$e8097c90$b81c75b0$@net> From: "Annalee" Subject: Caterpillars Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 21:38:56 -0600 FYI generally. On larvae of North America http://www.backyardnature.net/caterpil.htm From alanidae@gmail.com Sat Jan 15 23:34:54 2011 Message-Id: From: Alani Davis Subject: Hymenocallis caterpillars Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 23:34:52 -0500 The first thing that comes to mind is Xanthopastis timais the Spanish Moth or the Convict Caterpillar. I have never seen caterpillars that large but they sure can mow down Hymenocallis as well as Hippeastrum and Crinum. I have seen them eat scapes as well as developing seed and seen them eat the upper portions of the the bulbs even in native patches of Hymenocallis occidentalis. The colony of Hymenocallis recovered as the bulbs resprouted from the bulb plates but it took two years for them to do it fully. -- Alani Davis From aoleary@esc.net.au Sun Jan 16 00:49:01 2011 Message-Id: <9ECA62CA14D64D88AB6A1527AEDEA5F7@AlanOLearyPC> From: "Alan O'Leary" Subject: Scadoxus flowering time in southern hemisphere Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 16:00:09 +1030 These two species flower reliably for me every January S membranaceous is evergreen while S multiflous is winter and spring dormant. Hopefully some more species next week. http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/croweater49/ScadmultiflorusJan11.jpghttp://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/croweater49/ScadmembranaceusJan11.jpgAlan O'LearyAdelaide ,South Australia, Z10a From aoleary@esc.net.au Sun Jan 16 00:36:43 2011 Message-Id: From: "Alan O'Leary" Subject: Scadoxus flowering time in southern hemisphere Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 16:06:36 +1030 Try this http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/croweater49/ScadmultiflorusJan11.jpg http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/croweater49/ScadmembranaceusJan11.jpg From latsyrc18940@yahoo.com Sun Jan 16 01:16:38 2011 Message-Id: <190199.27933.qm@web56603.mail.re3.yahoo.com> From: kuang huang Subject: Scadoxus flowering time in southern hemisphere Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 22:16:37 -0800 (PST) They are very pretty Andy ________________________________ From: Alan O'Leary To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sat, January 15, 2011 9:36:36 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Scadoxus flowering time in southern hemisphere Try this http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/croweater49/ScadmultiflorusJan11.jpg http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/croweater49/ScadmembranaceusJan11.jpg From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Sun Jan 16 01:50:46 2011 Message-Id: <9cnfl3$lgaele@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out2.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: Scadoxus flowering time in southern hemisphere Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 17:50:17 +1100 At 04:30 PM 16/01/2011, you wrote: >These two species flower reliably for me every January > >S membranaceous is evergreen while S multiflous is winter and spring dormant. Well Done, Alan. I've never flowered either of those species. Congratulations. Cheers. Paul T. Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Galanthus, Irises, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! From msittner@mcn.org Mon Jan 17 09:56:43 2011 Message-Id: <20110117145641.77C814C13E@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Eastern Cape Trip Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 06:55:38 -0800 As our trip progressed we finally made it to high altitude grasslands which was the part of the trip I was really looking forward to. The temperatures there were cooler and we saw more flowering plants. So my reporting is slowing as there are a lot more photos to add. Our first day we stopped at Satansnek Pass. It was misty with rain threatening so we didn't do the walk to the summit to see Haemanthus humilis as they did on previous trips. But there was plenty to see where we were. I have already reported on the Crocosmia and Agapanthus combination with the challenging approach to the site. According to Cameron's web site this is the only place to see the Crocosmia in the wild. We started seeing tuberous orchids on this day (Corycium, Disa, Disperis, Eulophia, Neobolusia, Satyrium, and Schizochilus species) and that continued for the next couple of days. And we saw the first and probably the most unspectacular of many Kniphofia species we were to see. Bob Werra was very thrilled to see the first beautiful Moraea. I have added photos of what we saw at this spot on a page of its own. There are a few photos from previous trips that were already on the wiki, but most of the pictures including the habitat photos showing participants, were taken on this day in the few hours we were there exploring before it started raining. Hopefully at a later date I can add some of Cameron's photos from previous trips of other species seen in this spot that we didn't see. Mary Sue From dkramb@gmail.com Thu Jan 20 13:57:22 2011 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Spiranthes Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 13:57:21 -0500 I've been looking up Spiranthes online, and was stunned to learn there are pink species native throughout the western Pacific rim. For example... http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~flower_world/Orchids/Spiranthes%20australis.htm http://www.orchidsonline.com.au/node/8661 http://www.flickr.com/photos/ggstable/4370686766/ I'm equally surprised about NOT being able to find these in commerce. Does anyone here know if anyone hybridized them with North American Spiranthes? This notion is really intriguing to me. Spiranthes "Chadd's Ford" is so common, it seems like someone would have tried colorizing it by now. Dennis in Cincinnati (dreaming of spring) From ton1.wijnen@planet.nl Thu Jan 20 14:34:08 2011 Message-Id: From: "Ton Wijnen" Subject: japanese Hippeastrum hybrids Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 20:22:03 +0100 Hallo all Does some one know how to import Japanese Hippeastrum hybrids to Europe? Is that possible? I have found two nurseries, Komoriya and Miyake nursery. Perhaps some members knows other Japanese nurseries who export these hybrids bulbs. Please tell me Thank you Ton Wijnen The Netherlands From awilson@avonia.com Thu Jan 20 15:26:56 2011 Message-Id: <8FA087EF56FC4B80B30F8C8754E9B3B5@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: Eastern Cape Trip Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 12:27:50 -0800 Dear Mary Sue, The images of the orchids certainly interested me, particularly Eulophia, which I've grown here for years. Of special interest, though, was the scenery and the environment in which the plants you showed grow. Knowing that certainly helps to understand what they want. I look forward to your next mailing. Andrew San Diego As our trip progressed we finally made it to high altitude grasslands which was the part of the trip I was really looking forward to. The temperatures there were cooler and we saw more flowering plants. So my reporting is slowing as there are a lot more photos to add. Our first day we stopped at Satansnek Pass. It was misty with rain threatening so we didn't do the walk to the summit to see Haemanthus humilis as they did on previous trips. But there was plenty to see where we were. I have already reported on the Crocosmia and Agapanthus combination with the challenging approach to the site. According to Cameron's web site this is the only place to see the Crocosmia in the wild. We started seeing tuberous orchids on this day (Corycium, Disa, Disperis, Eulophia, Neobolusia, Satyrium, and Schizochilus species) and that continued for the next couple of days. And we saw the first and probably the most unspectacular of many Kniphofia species we were to see. Bob Werra was very thrilled to see the first beautiful Moraea. I have added photos of what we saw at this spot on a page of its own. There are a few photos from previous trips that were already on the wiki, but most of the pictures including the habitat photos showing participants, were taken on this day in the few hours we were there exploring before it started raining. Hopefully at a later date I can add some of Cameron's photos from previous trips of other species seen in this spot that we didn't see. Mary Sue From michaelcmace@gmail.com Fri Jan 21 00:35:46 2011 Message-Id: <009501cbb92d$0aeaad90$20c008b0$@com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Updated Narcissus section on the wiki Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:35:38 -0800 Hi, gang. I wanted to let you know that we've reworked and expanded the Narcissus section on the wiki. We added a lot of species, plus a new overview of the genus. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Narcissus This was a problematic project because the taxonomy of Narcissus is controversial and complicated. We found an overview created several years ago by Brian Mathew that included brief descriptions of every species, so we used that as our foundation. I'm not a Narcissus expert, but I know we have some experts on the PBS list, so if you find any mistakes you're cordially invited to log into the wiki and correct them. We could use some more photos to go with the many newly-listed species. If you have some, please post them, or contact me and I'll help. Thanks, Mike From d.avensis@virgin.net Fri Jan 21 04:55:16 2011 Message-Id: From: "David Nicholson" Subject: Updated Narcissus section on the wiki Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 09:55:11 -0000 Michael Mace wrote. I wanted to let you know that we've reworked and expanded the Narcissus section on the wiki. We added a lot of species, plus a new overview of the genus. Haven't had to chance to look in detail at the new pages yet but this Royal Horticultural Society paper might be useful:- http://www.rhs.org.uk/RHSWebsite/files/78/78c20a53-f093-4946-86a6-ebd964646409.pdfDavid Nicholsonin Devon UK. Zone 9b Where the greenhouse is full of Narcissus romieuxii andcantabricus forms.>>>> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Narcissus>>>> This was a problematic project because the taxonomy of Narcissus is> controversial and complicated. We found an overview created several years> ago by Brian Mathew that included brief descriptions of every species, sowe> used that as our foundation. I'm not a Narcissus expert, but I know wehave> some experts on the PBS list, so if you find any mistakes you're cordially> invited to log into the wiki and correct them.>>>> We could use some more photos to go with the many newly-listed species.If> you have some, please post them, or contact me and I'll help.>>>> Thanks,>>>> Mike>> _______________________________________________> pbs mailing list> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Jan 21 06:09:26 2011 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Updated Narcissus url from DN Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 05:09:20 -0600 David wrote: "Haven't had to chance to look in detail at the new pages yet, but this Royal Horticultural Society paper might be useful:-" , but had a typo in the url. The corrected url is http://www.rhs.org.uk/RHSWebsite/files/78/78c20a53-f093-4946-86a6-ebd964646409.pdf and a very interesting list. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From d.avensis@virgin.net Fri Jan 21 07:33:58 2011 Message-Id: <5D5F72051FC2492489F7AAB6EE72D747@Auricula> From: "David Nicholson" Subject: Updated Narcissus url from DN Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 12:33:35 -0000 Thanks Jim, I pressed the send button before the brain was in gear. David Nicholson in Devon, UK Zone 9b. With a heavy frost this morning. From Blee811@aol.com Fri Jan 21 08:55:18 2011 Message-Id: <8CD8789E82F92F4-106C-975C@webmail-d099.sysops.aol.com> From: blee811@aol.com Subject: Updated Narcissus section on the wiki Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 08:54:50 -0500 Regarding narcissus photos, are you aware of Daffseek.org? This is run by the American Daffodil Society and has many photos. It emphasizes cultivars, but I think many of the species are represented as well. If you see something you want to use, I can give you contact info for permissions. The people who photograph our daffodil shows are very generous about the use of their photos. Bill Lee -----Original Message----- From: Michael Mace To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Fri, Jan 21, 2011 12:35 am Subject: [pbs] Updated Narcissus section on the wiki Hi, gang. I wanted to let you know that we've reworked and expanded the Narcissus section on the wiki. We added a lot of species, plus a new overview of the genus. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Narcissus This was a problematic project because the taxonomy of Narcissus is controversial and complicated. We found an overview created several years ago by Brian Mathew that included brief descriptions of every species, so we used that as our foundation. I'm not a Narcissus expert, but I know we have some experts on the PBS list, so if you find any mistakes you're cordially invited to log into the wiki and correct them. We could use some more photos to go with the many newly-listed species. If you have some, please post them, or contact me and I'll help. Thanks, Mike From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Jan 21 13:02:12 2011 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Updated Narcissus section on the wiki Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 10:01:57 -0800 I printed out the nomenclature update from the RHS site to which David Nicholson and Jim Waddick directed us. It includes both the Fernandes Casas classification that is rejected in large part by some British botanists, and references to names in Michael Salmon's (Monocot Nursery) catalogs, which are derived in large part from the Spanish classification. I grew a lot of my Narcissus from seed purchased from Monocot, so I'll go back and match my database with the references in this list and see what I come up with. The RHS list reflects a "lumping" approach that results in very long names -- a lot of work to switch out my embossed metal labels, I'm sure. In any case, at least where the Bulbocodium section and the various forms of N. rupicola are concerned, we should be cautious in labeling seed-grown plants, since in a mixed collection like mine they hybridize within sections quite a lot. When I moved my collection this summer I sifted through tons of plunge sand in the frames and rescued as many as I could find of the volunteer bulbs that had grown between the pots over the years. I planted them at random in sand on a steep bank where my rock garden will be, and under sod on a gentle slope. As I write, a couple of the hoop petticoat narcissi are in flower in the sand. One is apparently N. romieuxii, and the other appears to be a hybrid romieuxii x cantabricus. The latter flower is unusual because it's two flowers partially fused. This feature usually doesn't repeat from year to year in the many kinds of plants in which it can occur. Considering the mistreatment these bulbs received in the course of my move, it's amazing they're even alive, much less flowering. Both the rock garden and the newly laid sod will have "all sorts" in them thanks to the Bulb Frame Volunteers. The presence of my dogs seems to be keeping the squirrels away, and there are no voles or gophers here. Already I see Crocus minimus, Crocus gargaricus, and C. sieberi in bloom, and lower down in the turf area I planted several hundred bulbs of Narcissus obvallaris, dug from an area of rough grass in my former garden. It has kept its name though at times it's been regarded as N. pseudonarcissus; perhaps the British botanists had a soft spot for their only native species. The dozen bulbs I started with 25 years ago formed large colonies in pasture grass that was sometimes inundated in winter and got very dry in summer. There were also seedlings downstream of the large clumps, which interested me because some writers claim this species does not self-sow. The seedlings eventually flowered and appeared identical to the N. obvallaris, which blooms for me well before any large hybrid daffodils do -- in February even up in the Cascade foothills. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From xerantheum@gmail.com Fri Jan 21 13:20:17 2011 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Updated Narcissus section on the wiki Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 10:20:15 -0800 Hi everyone, Controversial the taxonomy may be, the work that Mike put into reorganizing these pages for a large genus is not anything small. I would like to thank Mike for taking on this project which we sorely needed for many years. The wiki is now even better than before for it. Thanks, Mike!! Nhu On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 9:35 PM, Michael Mace wrote: > Hi, gang. > > I wanted to let you know that we've reworked and expanded the Narcissus > section on the wiki. We added a lot of species, plus a new overview of the > genus. > From mikemace@att.net Fri Jan 21 14:56:49 2011 Message-Id: <003301cbb9a5$54c57440$fe505cc0$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Updated Narcissus Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 11:56:45 -0800 Bill wrote: >> Regarding narcissus photos, are you aware of Daffseek.org? Aware of the resource, not aware that we might be able to source photos from it. I'll be in touch once I've compiled my wish list. Thanks for the pointer! David, thanks very much for that list. I wasn't aware of it. The reason we ran with the Mathew "conspectus" was because he's a respected individual, and he included brief descriptions of each species, which was the thing we needed most on the wiki. He also did a very nice job (apparently adapted from a couple of other authors) of grouping the species into several categories, which to me was more useful than the actual species names because it helped me understand the whole genus (as a non-expert, I had been very confused by the whole thing). I found a PDF of Mathew's conspectus online, and can point you to it if you're interested. Just drop me a note privately. Another resource I looked at was the new Kew/Mobot Plant List, http://www.theplantlist.org/ , but it just lists names. Same thing for the RHS list. If anyone wants to go through Plant List, and the RHS list, and add all of those synonyms to the wiki, I think that would be a worthy project and you would earn my undying respect. Jane, I loved your description of the slope with the mixed volunteer bulbs. I wish I could see it. Have you posted any pictures of your whole relocation project? I've really been enjoying reading about it, and I hope you'll continue with the updates. Mike San Jose, CA From Blee811@aol.com Fri Jan 21 15:30:26 2011 Message-Id: <8CD87C124A1D74A-1820-18DD1@webmail-m101.sysops.aol.com> From: blee811@aol.com Subject: Updated Narcissus section on the wiki Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 15:30:14 -0500 I may have spoken too soon. I just opened Daffseek to try to search for species and I can't see how to do it. Maybe species are not included on Daffseek. I'll find out--the expert lives near me. Bill Lee -----Original Message----- From: Michael Mace To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Fri, Jan 21, 2011 12:35 am Subject: [pbs] Updated Narcissus section on the wiki Hi, gang. I wanted to let you know that we've reworked and expanded the Narcissus section on the wiki. We added a lot of species, plus a new overview of the genus. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Narcissus This was a problematic project because the taxonomy of Narcissus is controversial and complicated. We found an overview created several years ago by Brian Mathew that included brief descriptions of every species, so we used that as our foundation. I'm not a Narcissus expert, but I know we have some experts on the PBS list, so if you find any mistakes you're cordially invited to log into the wiki and correct them. We could use some more photos to go with the many newly-listed species. If you have some, please post them, or contact me and I'll help. Thanks, Mike From joshy46013@yahoo.com Fri Jan 21 15:33:13 2011 Message-Id: <863603.94968.qm@web121707.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Josh Young Subject: Updated Narcissus section on the wiki Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 12:33:12 -0800 (PST) Bill, Go to the query page, select the drop down box for 'Division' and at the bottom #13 1 and 2 are both species Josh From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Jan 21 16:11:06 2011 Message-Id: From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Updated Narcissus section on the wiki Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 16:11:54 -0500 Thanks, Mike, for taking the time to do the updates, and thanks Jim, for posting the correct link. I was disappointed to see so many subdivisions of the species used in the Narcissus list. Do all of the names cited really correspond to distinct, sexually reproducing populations in nature? If the basis of modern species concept is the interbreeding population, and if the proper focus of the taxonomist is that interbreeding population, it seems to me that the continued subdivision of the species into smaller units such as the subspecies, variety and form only continues the muddied taxonomy of the past. What sense does it make to have an interbreeding population itself within another interbreeding population itself within yet another larger interbreeding population? I’m still waiting for a truly modern treatment of the genus Narcissus. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From Blee811@aol.com Fri Jan 21 17:33:09 2011 Message-Id: <8CD87D2469C62DD-C28-43D5@webmail-m081.sysops.aol.com> From: blee811@aol.com Subject: Updated Narcissus section on the wiki Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 17:32:52 -0500 Apparently there is something wrong with my Internet Explorer. I still can't search using Daffseek.org. But when I switch to Mozilla Firefox, I have no problem. If you want to see species, try searching for just N. Bill Lee -----Original Message----- From: blee811@aol.com To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Fri, Jan 21, 2011 3:30 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] Updated Narcissus section on the wiki I may have spoken too soon. I just opened Daffseek to try to search for species and I can't see how to do it. Maybe species are not included on Daffseek. I'll find out--the expert lives near me. Bill Lee -----Original Message----- From: Michael Mace To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Fri, Jan 21, 2011 12:35 am Subject: [pbs] Updated Narcissus section on the wiki Hi, gang. I wanted to let you know that we've reworked and expanded the Narcissus section on the wiki. We added a lot of species, plus a new overview of the genus. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Narcissus This was a problematic project because the taxonomy of Narcissus is controversial and complicated. We found an overview created several years ago by Brian Mathew that included brief descriptions of every species, so we used that as our foundation. I'm not a Narcissus expert, but I know we have some experts on the PBS list, so if you find any mistakes you're cordially invited to log into the wiki and correct them. We could use some more photos to go with the many newly-listed species. If you have some, please post them, or contact me and I'll help. Thanks, Mike From arnold140@verizon.net Fri Jan 21 17:37:50 2011 Message-Id: <448855734.284521.1295649456038.JavaMail.root@vznit170072> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Updated Narcissus section on the wiki Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 16:37:35 -0600 (CST) Bill: On the Daffseek search page you pull down the list and select Div. 13 which is Species Botanical and Wild Variants. http://daffseek.org/ Arnold From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Jan 21 17:51:22 2011 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Was: Updated Narcissus section NOW N obvallaris Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 16:44:59 -0600 >lower down in the turf area I planted several hundred bulbs of >Narcissus obvallaris, dug from an area of rough grass in my former >garden. It has kept its name though at times it's been regarded as >N. pseudonarcissus; perhaps the British botanists had a soft spot >for their only native species. The dozen bulbs I started with 25 >years ago formed large colonies in pasture grass that was sometimes >inundated in winter and got very dry in summer. There were also >seedlings downstream of the large clumps, which interested me >because some writers claim this species does not self-sow. The >seedlings eventually flowered and appeared identical to the N. >obvallaris, which blooms for me well before any large hybrid >daffodils do -- in February even up in the Cascade foothills. Dear Jane and all, We ordered a couple dozen bulbs years ago hoping they might naturalize on a W/.facing hill in light shade among Hellebores. The trial was a great success. This is the only Narcissus that self sows here and seedlings pop up all along the hill side. Flowers are uniform and distinctive so there's no real surprises. No one ever says how nice they are, but they are totally trouble free and just do their own thing. We do recommend them to all visitors in season. We have a much harsher climate than Jane and we've never had a problem with them. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From dkramb@gmail.com Fri Jan 21 23:06:45 2011 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: seed permit Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 23:06:43 -0500 Is it a very long wait to get a seed permit from APHIS after submitting an application? This was a big subject last year, but it didn't concern me until now, so I didn't pay attention. I'm considering to import some Passiflora seeds from Costa Rica. Thanks, Dennis in Cincinnati (-2 deg F at the moment) From butterflyamaryllis@yahoo.com Fri Jan 21 23:09:18 2011 Message-Id: <454254.36478.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: seed permit Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 20:09:14 -0800 (PST) No it is not a particularly long wait, probably 3 weeks. I am away from work so i do not have their web address handy.   James Frelichowski Cotton Curator USDA - ARS college Station, TX --- On Fri, 1/21/11, Dennis Kramb wrote: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: [pbs] seed permit To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Friday, January 21, 2011, 8:06 PM Is it a very long wait to get a seed permit from APHIS after submitting an application?  This was a big subject last year, but it didn't concern me until now, so I didn't pay attention.  I'm considering to import some Passiflora seeds from Costa Rica. Thanks, Dennis in Cincinnati (-2 deg F at the moment) From dkramb@gmail.com Fri Jan 21 23:15:08 2011 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: seed permit Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 23:15:05 -0500 It's OK. I already have it. :-) http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/plant_imports/smalllots_seed.shtml As best as I can tell, my Passiflora species are not restricted to import. Three weeks is a long time (to me) but that gives the weather a chance to warm up to something a bit more hospitable for tropical plant seeds, I guess. Thanks for the quick feedback! On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 11:09 PM, James Frelichowski wrote: > No it is not a particularly long wait, probably 3 weeks. > I am away from work so i do not have their web address handy. > > James Frelichowski > Cotton Curator > USDA - ARS > college Station, TX > From awilson@avonia.com Fri Jan 21 23:14:39 2011 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: seed permit Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 20:15:30 -0800 Seconded. Far quicker than I expected when I tried it. Andrew No it is not a particularly long wait, probably 3 weeks. I am away from work so i do not have their web address handy.   James Frelichowski Is it a very long wait to get a seed permit from APHIS after submitting an application?  This was a big subject last year, but it didn't concern me until now, so I didn't pay attention.  I'm considering to import some Passiflora seeds from Costa Rica. Thanks, Dennis in Cincinnati (-2 deg F at the moment) _______________________________________________ From dkramb@gmail.com Sat Jan 22 00:22:36 2011 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: seed permit Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 00:22:34 -0500 Wow. The e-application is hardly efficient or time-saving. So now I have to drive to another county and show my photo ID ?!?? No thanks. I'll just mail in a paper application. Geez. From mikemace@att.net Sat Jan 22 01:01:10 2011 Message-Id: <003301cbb9f9$c2a09450$47e1bcf0$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Seed permit Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 22:01:06 -0800 Dennis wrote: >> Wow. The e-application is hardly efficient or time-saving. So now I have to drive to another county and show my photo ID ?!?? No thanks. I'll just mail in a paper application. Geez. I had exactly the same reaction when I applied. For those of you who are not familiar with what we're talking about, the US government gives you two ways to apply for a seed import permit -- you can sign up for the electronic filing system, or you can print and mail in a paper form. The government website strongly encourages you to use the electronic system, and in fact it's hard to find the paper form at all. But to use the electronic system, your ID has to be hand-verified by an official of the US Department of Agriculture. And USDA offices are, naturally, in rural areas where the farms are. They don't have them in cities. When I first applied for my seed permit, I wasted a huge amount of time trying to figure out how I'd get over to my closest USDA office during business hours. It's in Hollister, CA (a small town about 90 minutes south of San Jose). Then finally I realized that I could just mail in the form. Why they have to physically verify your ID to use an online form, but not to use a mail-in form, is one of the great mysteries 21st century America. Mike San Jose, CA From awilson@avonia.com Sat Jan 22 01:01:15 2011 Message-Id: <61A041F0ABA34C58957DE5703C81AFE9@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: seed permit Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 22:01:44 -0800 Huh! Just scan in your ID. Andrew From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Kramb Subject: Re: [pbs] seed permit Wow. The e-application is hardly efficient or time-saving. So now I have to drive to another county and show my photo ID ?!?? No thanks. I'll just mail in a paper application. Geez. From michaelcmace@gmail.com Sat Jan 22 02:08:28 2011 Message-Id: <003701cbba03$28a79290$79f6b7b0$@com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Favorite stories about bulbs? Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 23:08:21 -0800 Like many of us, I have a fair number of bulb-related books at home. I was paging through them the other day, looking for some information, when I realized that there are basically two types of bulb books. One is the reference book, which focuses on giving information about various bulb species. These books are usually great resources, especially if they have pictures. The other type of bulb book is something we don't have a name for, but I'll call it a narrative because it usually tells a story. A bulb narrative is more about finding and growing bulbs than about classifying them. Even if it gives information on various bulb species, it's usually focused on the experiences the author has had with them. Although the reference books are very useful, I find it's these narrative books that stick with me the most, and they're the ones I'll happily go back to and re-read again. Two examples: Louise Beebe Wilder's "Adventures with Hardy Bulbs" is entertaining because she honestly did think of bulb growing as an adventure. When she writes about bulbs they aren't just plants, they are personalities. Some are nice personalities; some are evil. But they are never boring, and her endless fascination with them is infectious. The second example is Janis Ruksans' "Buried Treasures." This book has been mentioned on this list a couple of times, but in case you missed it, Ruksans is a Latvian bulb collector who has wandered all over the former Soviet bloc looking for bulbs. He has a remarkable talent for getting into and out of difficult spots, both geographically and politically, and this book summarizes his travels. A typical chapter goes something like this: 1. Drive up hazardous dirt road into mountains looking for rare bulb. 2. Find bulb. 3. Nearly get shot by nervous border guard who thinks he is a terrorist. 4. Bribe border guard. 5. Go out to dinner and drinking with border guard. 6. Repeat process the next day. I'd be terrified to travel with the guy, but it makes for fun reading. And like Wilder's book, what makes the story work is the author's complete, over-the-top obsession with bulbs. Does anyone else agree with me about bulb narrative books, and if so, what are your favorites? I'd like to find some more books to read. Mike San Jose, CA From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sat Jan 22 03:13:09 2011 Message-Id: <27073187.69541.1295683986735.JavaMail.www@wwinf1d18> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Favorite stories about bulbs? Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 09:13:06 +0100 (CET) Hello, I for one am very fond of E. A. Bowles' gardening books. His description of a "simple" bulb is a classic! He was not very widely travelled though by todays standards. Just european based and thus mostly european bulbs. His description of Dracunculus muscivorus is quite something too! Mark > Message du 22/01/11 08:08 > De : "Michael Mace" > A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] Favorite stories about bulbs? > > "Like many of us, I have a fair number of bulb-related books at home. I was > paging through them the other day, looking for some information, when I > realized that there are basically two types of bulb books.... > Does anyone else agree with me about bulb narrative books, and if so, what > are your favorites? I'd like to find some more books to read." > > > > Mike > > San Jose, CA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From toadlily@olywa.net Sat Jan 22 04:25:14 2011 Message-Id: <4D3A9DA7.3050501@olywa.net> From: Laura & Dave Subject: Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 01:04:39 -0800 I just got the book Crocuses: A Complete Guide to the Genus byJanis Ruksans and Brian Mathew. And my first impression is Wow! Perhaps now I can begin to make sense of this genus. I haven't had a chance to read much, but it seems to be full of information from someone who is actually finding/growing/studying the plants. And there is a bit of the same fun mentioned in a recent post from Michael Mace, regarding the author. Amazon has a great price break at the moment on this book ($26.73, savings of 41%), and if you wish to order the book from them, please consider accessing their website through the NARGS (North American Rock Garden Society) website (nargs.org). NARGS now gets a small percentage for purchases at Amazon when entered through the NARGS link. This works even for items NARGS doesn't have a direct link for, that you must search for when you get to Amazon. And you don't need to be a member of NARGS. Perhaps the PBS should look into this association as well, but in the mean time another worthy plant society would appreciate your support, especially since this costs nothing extra and you still get all the normal features that Amazon offers. Thanks, Dave Brastow, looking forward to the 4 days of cold but sunny weather promised by the weather service. Tumwater, Washington From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sat Jan 22 05:41:26 2011 Message-Id: <16148418.45752.1295692882726.JavaMail.www@wwinf1h15> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 11:41:22 +0100 (CET) Hello Dave, I would love to buy the book bit NARGS does not list it on their website... Mark > Message du 22/01/11 10:25 > De : "Laura & Dave" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service > > I just got the book Crocuses: A Complete Guide to the Genus byJanis Ruksans > and Brian Mathew. And my first impression is Wow! Perhaps now I can begin to > make sense of this genus. I haven't had a chance to read much, but it seems to > be full of information from someone who is actually finding/growing/studying the > plants. And there is a bit of the same fun mentioned in a recent post from > Michael Mace, regarding the author. > Amazon has a great price break at the moment on this book ($26.73, savings of > 41%), and if you wish to order the book from them, please consider accessing > their website through the NARGS (North American Rock Garden Society) website > (nargs.org). NARGS now gets a small percentage for purchases at Amazon when > entered through the NARGS link. This works even for items NARGS doesn't have a > direct link for, that you must search for when you get to Amazon. And you don't > need to be a member of NARGS. Perhaps the PBS should look into this association > as well, but in the mean time another worthy plant society would appreciate your > support, especially since this costs nothing extra and you still get all the > normal features that Amazon offers. > > Thanks, > Dave Brastow, looking forward to the 4 days of cold but sunny weather > promised by the weather service. > Tumwater, Washington > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Sat Jan 22 05:56:50 2011 Message-Id: <417809.65530.qm@web86302.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:56:48 +0000 (GMT) Hi Mark   It appears you have to click on the Amazon advert in the centre on the first page, when it appears, and then on the bottom of the next page for a similar advert. But this takes you to the US Amazon which you may prefer not to use. Is there a way we can get to our own, Amazon UK in my case, Amazon FR for Mark, and still support NARGS?   I forget the proportion of non US membership of NARGS, but if the AGS at ~30% non UK membership is anything to go buy this may be a large number of members.   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 --- On Sat, 22/1/11, Mark BROWN wrote: Hello Dave, I would love to buy the book bit NARGS does not list it on their website... Mark From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Sat Jan 22 06:05:41 2011 Message-Id: <600329.1604.qm@web86304.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 11:05:39 +0000 (GMT) My mistake. The second click is on the Aisles links. I guess it is a simulated bookshop.   Brian --- On Sat, 22/1/11, Mark BROWN wrote: Hello Dave, I would love to buy the book bit NARGS does not list it on their website... Mark From bulborum@gmail.com Sat Jan 22 06:17:40 2011 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 12:17:39 +0100 In France the Crocus book is much more expensive Acheter neuf: original price EUR 36,17 Amazon price EUR 33,48 = $45,47 maybe it is cheaper to buy in America and send to France Roland -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Sat Jan 22 06:30:24 2011 Message-Id: <181325.48206.qm@web86306.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 11:30:21 +0000 (GMT) UK price is $33.6., still a bit dearer than US price but better. Depends on postage/shipping and delivery time.   Brian In France the Crocus book is much more expensive Acheter neuf: original price EUR 36,17  Amazon price EUR 33,48  = $45,47 maybe it is cheaper to buy in America and send to France Roland -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From bulborum@gmail.com Sat Jan 22 07:06:52 2011 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 13:06:50 +0100 I tried Amazon Netherlands you are linked to Amazon.com with a free shipment after completing the whole form ready for payee then they charge you $23 for the post saying at the end ,just in the US is free Roland 2011/1/22 Brian Whyer : > UK price is $33.6., still a bit dearer than US price but better. Depends on postage/shipping and delivery time. -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Sat Jan 22 08:10:16 2011 Message-Id: <989585.63405.qm@web86304.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 13:10:13 +0000 (GMT) The cheapest supplier on Amazon.co.uk seems to be 16.49 + 4.02 GBP for EU postage. ~$33 equivalent. I tried Amazon Netherlands you are linked to Amazon.com with a free shipment after completing the whole form ready for payee  then they charge you $23 for the post saying at the end ,just in the US is free Roland 2011/1/22 Brian Whyer : > UK price is $33.6., still a bit dearer than US price but better. Depends on postage/shipping and delivery time. -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From bulborum@gmail.com Sat Jan 22 08:24:47 2011 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 14:24:46 +0100 Thanks I try that one Roland 2011/1/22 Brian Whyer : > The cheapest supplier on Amazon.co.uk seems to be 16.49 + 4.02 GBP for EU postage. ~$33 equivalent. -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From bvorlop@comcast.net Sat Jan 22 14:41:47 2011 Message-Id: <60C5D9A528E24631A2BFB5888635297F@ibmyp08061ck4u> From: "Barbara Vorlop" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 96, Issue 25 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 11:41:40 -0800 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 4:06 AM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 96, Issue 25 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Seed permit (Michael Mace) > 2. Re: seed permit (AW) > 3. Favorite stories about bulbs? (Michael Mace) > 4. Re: Favorite stories about bulbs? (Mark BROWN) > 5. Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service (Laura & Dave) > 6. Re: Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service (Mark BROWN) > 7. Re: Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service (Brian Whyer) > 8. Re: Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service (Brian Whyer) > 9. Re: Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service > (bulborum botanicum) > 10. Re: Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service (Brian Whyer) > 11. Re: Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service > (bulborum botanicum) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 22:01:06 -0800 > From: "Michael Mace" > To: > Subject: Re: [pbs] Seed permit > Message-ID: <003301cbb9f9$c2a09450$47e1bcf0$@net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dennis wrote: > >>> Wow. The e-application is hardly efficient or time-saving. So now I > have to drive to another county and show my photo ID ?!?? No thanks. > I'll just mail in a paper application. Geez. > > I had exactly the same reaction when I applied. For those of you who are > not familiar with what we're talking about, the US government gives you > two > ways to apply for a seed import permit -- you can sign up for the > electronic > filing system, or you can print and mail in a paper form. The government > website strongly encourages you to use the electronic system, and in fact > it's hard to find the paper form at all. > > But to use the electronic system, your ID has to be hand-verified by an > official of the US Department of Agriculture. And USDA offices are, > naturally, in rural areas where the farms are. They don't have them in > cities. When I first applied for my seed permit, I wasted a huge amount > of > time trying to figure out how I'd get over to my closest USDA office > during > business hours. It's in Hollister, CA (a small town about 90 minutes > south > of San Jose). Then finally I realized that I could just mail in the form. > > Why they have to physically verify your ID to use an online form, but not > to > use a mail-in form, is one of the great mysteries 21st century America. > > Mike > San Jose, CA > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 22:01:44 -0800 > From: "AW" > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" > Subject: Re: [pbs] seed permit > Message-ID: <61A041F0ABA34C58957DE5703C81AFE9@Desktop> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Huh! Just scan in your ID. > > Andrew > > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of Dennis Kramb > Subject: Re: [pbs] seed permit > > Wow. The e-application is hardly efficient or time-saving. So now I have > to > drive to another county and show my photo ID ?!?? No thanks. > I'll just mail in a paper application. Geez. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 23:08:21 -0800 > From: "Michael Mace" > To: > Subject: [pbs] Favorite stories about bulbs? > Message-ID: <003701cbba03$28a79290$79f6b7b0$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Like many of us, I have a fair number of bulb-related books at home. I > was > paging through them the other day, looking for some information, when I > realized that there are basically two types of bulb books. One is the > reference book, which focuses on giving information about various bulb > species. These books are usually great resources, especially if they have > pictures. > > > > The other type of bulb book is something we don't have a name for, but > I'll > call it a narrative because it usually tells a story. A bulb narrative is > more about finding and growing bulbs than about classifying them. Even if > it gives information on various bulb species, it's usually focused on the > experiences the author has had with them. Although the reference books > are > very useful, I find it's these narrative books that stick with me the > most, > and they're the ones I'll happily go back to and re-read again. > > > > Two examples: > > > > Louise Beebe Wilder's "Adventures with Hardy Bulbs" is entertaining > because > she honestly did think of bulb growing as an adventure. When she writes > about bulbs they aren't just plants, they are personalities. Some are > nice > personalities; some are evil. But they are never boring, and her endless > fascination with them is infectious. > > > > The second example is Janis Ruksans' "Buried Treasures." This book has > been > mentioned on this list a couple of times, but in case you missed it, > Ruksans > is a Latvian bulb collector who has wandered all over the former Soviet > bloc > looking for bulbs. He has a remarkable talent for getting into and out of > difficult spots, both geographically and politically, and this book > summarizes his travels. A typical chapter goes something like this: > > 1. Drive up hazardous dirt road into mountains looking for > rare bulb. > > 2. Find bulb. > > 3. Nearly get shot by nervous border guard who thinks he is > a terrorist. > > 4. Bribe border guard. > > 5. Go out to dinner and drinking with border guard. > > 6. Repeat process the next day. > > > > I'd be terrified to travel with the guy, but it makes for fun reading. > And > like Wilder's book, what makes the story work is the author's complete, > over-the-top obsession with bulbs. > > > > > Does anyone else agree with me about bulb narrative books, and if so, what > are your favorites? I'd like to find some more books to read. > > > > Mike > > San Jose, CA > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 09:13:06 +0100 (CET) > From: Mark BROWN > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Favorite stories about bulbs? > Message-ID: <27073187.69541.1295683986735.JavaMail.www@wwinf1d18> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > > > Hello, > I for one am very fond of E. A. Bowles' gardening books. > His description of a "simple" bulb is a classic! > He was not very widely travelled though by todays standards. > Just european based and thus mostly european bulbs. > His description of Dracunculus muscivorus is quite something too! > > Mark > > >> Message du 22/01/11 08:08 >> De : "Michael Mace" >> A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> Copie ? : >> Objet : [pbs] Favorite stories about bulbs? >> >> "Like many of us, I have a fair number of bulb-related books at home. I >> was >> paging through them the other day, looking for some information, when I >> realized that there are basically two types of bulb books.... > >> Does anyone else agree with me about bulb narrative books, and if so, >> what >> are your favorites? I'd like to find some more books to read." >> >> >> >> Mike >> >> San Jose, CA >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 01:04:39 -0800 > From: Laura & Dave > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: [pbs] Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service > Message-ID: <4D3A9DA7.3050501@olywa.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > I just got the book Crocuses: A Complete Guide to the Genus byJanis > Ruksans > and Brian Mathew. And my first impression is Wow! Perhaps now I can > begin to > make sense of this genus. I haven't had a chance to read much, but it > seems to > be full of information from someone who is actually > finding/growing/studying the > plants. And there is a bit of the same fun mentioned in a recent post > from > Michael Mace, regarding the author. > Amazon has a great price break at the moment on this book ($26.73, > savings of > 41%), and if you wish to order the book from them, please consider > accessing > their website through the NARGS (North American Rock Garden Society) > website > (nargs.org). NARGS now gets a small percentage for purchases at Amazon > when > entered through the NARGS link. This works even for items NARGS doesn't > have a > direct link for, that you must search for when you get to Amazon. And you > don't > need to be a member of NARGS. Perhaps the PBS should look into this > association > as well, but in the mean time another worthy plant society would > appreciate your > support, especially since this costs nothing extra and you still get all > the > normal features that Amazon offers. > > Thanks, > Dave Brastow, looking forward to the 4 days of cold but sunny weather > promised by the weather service. > Tumwater, Washington > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 11:41:22 +0100 (CET) > From: Mark BROWN > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service > Message-ID: <16148418.45752.1295692882726.JavaMail.www@wwinf1h15> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hello Dave, > I would love to buy the book bit NARGS does not list it on their > website... > Mark > > > > >> Message du 22/01/11 10:25 >> De : "Laura & Dave" >> A : "Pacific Bulb Society" >> Copie ? : >> Objet : [pbs] Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service >> >> I just got the book Crocuses: A Complete Guide to the Genus byJanis >> Ruksans >> and Brian Mathew. And my first impression is Wow! Perhaps now I can begin >> to >> make sense of this genus. I haven't had a chance to read much, but it >> seems to >> be full of information from someone who is actually >> finding/growing/studying the >> plants. And there is a bit of the same fun mentioned in a recent post >> from >> Michael Mace, regarding the author. >> Amazon has a great price break at the moment on this book ($26.73, >> savings of >> 41%), and if you wish to order the book from them, please consider >> accessing >> their website through the NARGS (North American Rock Garden Society) >> website >> (nargs.org). NARGS now gets a small percentage for purchases at Amazon >> when >> entered through the NARGS link. This works even for items NARGS doesn't >> have a >> direct link for, that you must search for when you get to Amazon. And you >> don't >> need to be a member of NARGS. Perhaps the PBS should look into this >> association >> as well, but in the mean time another worthy plant society would >> appreciate your >> support, especially since this costs nothing extra and you still get all >> the >> normal features that Amazon offers. >> >> Thanks, >> Dave Brastow, looking forward to the 4 days of cold but sunny weather >> promised by the weather service. >> Tumwater, Washington >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:56:48 +0000 (GMT) > From: Brian Whyer > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service > Message-ID: <417809.65530.qm@web86302.mail.ird.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Hi Mark > ? > It appears you have to click on the Amazon advert in the centre on the > first page, when it appears, and then on the bottom of the next page for a > similar advert. But this takes you to the US Amazon which you may prefer > not to use. > Is there a way we can get to our own, Amazon UK in my case, Amazon FR for > Mark,?and still support NARGS? > ? > I forget the proportion of non US membership of NARGS, but if the AGS at > ~30% non UK > membership is anything to go buy this may be a large number of members. > ? > Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 > > --- On Sat, 22/1/11, Mark BROWN wrote: > > > Hello Dave, > I would love to buy the book bit NARGS does not list it on their > website... > Mark > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 11:05:39 +0000 (GMT) > From: Brian Whyer > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service > Message-ID: <600329.1604.qm@web86304.mail.ird.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > My mistake. The second click is on the Aisles links. I guess it is a > simulated bookshop. > ? > Brian > > --- On Sat, 22/1/11, Mark BROWN wrote: > > > Hello Dave, > I would love to buy the book bit NARGS does not list it on their > website... > Mark > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 12:17:39 +0100 > From: bulborum botanicum > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > In France the Crocus book is much more expensive > Acheter neuf: original price EUR 36,17 Amazon price EUR 33,48 = $45,47 > maybe it is cheaper to buy in America and send to France > > Roland > > > -- > R de Boer > La Maugardiere 1 > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email:?? bulborum@gmail.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 11:30:21 +0000 (GMT) > From: Brian Whyer > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service > Message-ID: <181325.48206.qm@web86306.mail.ird.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > UK price is $33.6., still a bit dearer than US price but better. Depends > on postage/shipping and delivery time. > ? > Brian > > In France the Crocus book is much more expensive > Acheter neuf: original price EUR 36,17? Amazon price EUR 33,48? = $45,47 > maybe it is cheaper to buy in America and send to France > > Roland > > > -- > R de Boer > La Maugardiere 1 > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email:?? bulborum@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 13:06:50 +0100 > From: bulborum botanicum > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Crocus Book and a plug for NARGS book service > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I tried Amazon Netherlands > you are linked to Amazon.com > with a free shipment > after completing the whole form > ready for payee then they charge you $23 for the post > saying at the end ,just in the US is free > > Roland > > > > 2011/1/22 Brian Whyer : >> UK price is $33.6., still a bit dearer than US price but better. Depends >> on postage/shipping and delivery time. > > > -- > R de Boer > La Maugardiere 1 > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email:?? bulborum@gmail.com > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 96, Issue 25 > *********************************** > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3395 - Release Date: 01/21/11 > From mikemace@att.net Sat Jan 22 14:53:34 2011 Message-Id: <002401cbba6e$0b29d190$217d74b0$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Seed permit Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 11:53:29 -0800 Andrew wrote: > Huh! Just scan in your ID. That's how it ought to work. But I contacted them directly, and even offered to send in a notarized copy of my ID. I was told that I had to present my ID in person, to a designated verification agent. Mike From msittner@mcn.org Sat Jan 22 16:09:35 2011 Message-Id: <20110122210934.CAD6B4C01C@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Ibiblio outage Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 13:08:46 -0800 Hi, Although I haven't gotten a message from ibiblio to confirm this, it appears there was some kind of problem that occurred this morning some time after 6 a.m. Pacific Standard time that knocked all of what ibiblio hosts offline. That meant that the Pacific Bulb Society site was not accessible, nor was the wiki and messages to the list bounced back. Everything was working again sometime after 9 a.m. If you sent a message to the list during that time and got a bounce message back you should resend it now that things are working again. Mary Sue pbs list administrator From jgglatt@gmail.com Sat Jan 22 16:58:04 2011 Message-Id: <4D3B52EB.1050101@gmail.com> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: Fwd: Favorite Narrative Bulb Books Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 16:58:03 -0500 I have about a gazillion gardening books. And yes, a fair number are bulb-related. Of the"narrative" style that Michael mentions there are two authors that come immediately to mind. The first is of course Elizabeth Lawrence. Her classic "The Little Bulbs: A Tale of Two Gardens" is a delightful journey through her garden in North Carolina and that of Mr. Krippendorf, in southern Ohio. I've had the pleasure of twice visiting Elizabeth's garden. While many plants she wrote about are no longer extant, some of the bulbs still welcome Spring with exuberant bloom. I am also fortunate to have a copy of "Lob's Wood" a little 78 page pamphlet about Mr. Krippendorf's garden that Miss Lawrence wrote for the Cincinnati Nature Center which (at least back in 1971 when the pamphlet was published, don't know about today) manages Lob's Woods. And the other is M. M. Graff. Her book "Flowers in the Winter Garden" does include some non-bulbous flowers but the focus on winter blossoming plants of necessity primarily about bulbs. Dicky, who died in 2007, lived on Long Island and in Brooklyn NY. "Opinionated" does not begin to cover her approach to life. I had the pleasure of corresponding with her for a number of years and thoroughly enjoy her letters both the first time around and when I re-read them. Published in 1966 and sold for a modest $4.95 the book will doubtless be difficult to find but enjoyable once obtained. Judy in frigid New Jersey where overnight temperatures were in the quite low single (Fahrenheit) digits and the wood burning stove is voraciously consuming wood From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Jan 22 17:22:26 2011 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Seed permit Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 16:22:18 -0600 >Why they have to physically verify your ID to use an online form, but not to >use a mail-in form, is one of the great mysteries 21st century America. > >Mike Dear Mike, 1. Because they are USDA 2. Because they can Nothing logical or mysterious Anonymous -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From eagle.85@verizon.net Sat Jan 22 17:49:40 2011 Message-Id: <9A1F1F41-F7E0-472B-A4E6-987B9D144FEC@verizon.net> From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Paramongaia weberbaueri pollen Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 14:49:28 -0800 To the PBS member who requested Paramongaia weberbaueri pollen and I sent it. Did it "do the job"? I used what was left on the brush, and it appears that mine is developing seeds. "SELF FERTILE"? Please let me know. I have negotiated for another clone of Paramongaia weberbaueri to be certain that I am successful next year. Let me know and I will ttry to send some next year IF YOU REMIND ME! Regards, Doug Westfall From aley_wd@mac.com Sat Jan 22 18:06:09 2011 Message-Id: From: William Aley Subject: Seed permit Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 18:06:04 -0500 no that's the way that the Bush administration set up the peer to peer computer communication authorization. On Jan 22, 2011, at 5:22 PM, James Waddick wrote: >> Why they have to physically verify your ID to use an online form, >> but not to >> use a mail-in form, is one of the great mysteries 21st century >> America. >> >> Mike > > Dear Mike, > > 1. Because they are USDA > > 2. Because they can > > Nothing logical or mysterious Anonymous > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki William Aley aley_wd@me.com www.aley.william.name From adam14113@ameritech.net Sat Jan 22 18:30:08 2011 Message-Id: <1E0BE51F9CA3438493E90E29579DB03A@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Seed permit Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:30:00 -0600 Yes, I went through all that. It's not simple. And then wait until you see the requirements for a password. Must hav one through Homeland Security ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Mace" To: Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Seed permit > Andrew wrote: > >> Huh! Just scan in your ID. > > That's how it ought to work. But I contacted them directly, and even > offered to send in a notarized copy of my ID. I was told that I had to > present my ID in person, to a designated verification agent. > > Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From hornig@earthlink.net Sat Jan 22 18:33:03 2011 Message-Id: <14001956.1295739182131.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Ellen Hornig Subject: Bureaucracy (was Seed permit) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 18:33:01 -0500 (GMT-05:00) But...but...couldn't it now be changed? Now that we all know who to blame? This reminds me of when I recently spent about 6 hours trying to contact our cable company to report an outage (not 6 solid hours, but off and on). When I finally got through to the right person and reported it, she scheduled us for repair 3 days hence, but cheerfully observed "oh yes! I can see on the map that several streets around you are out too." "Oh", says I, "if you have a whole area out, won't you send someone sooner?" "Can't", she says - "I have to wait until a few more people call to report it. " "But maybe you haven't heard from them because they can't get through?" (gritting my teeth) "Could be", she cheerfully replies, "but that's the rule". Such is life in the post-modern bureaucracy. Doesn't matter if we know what's wrong - that doesn't give us a mandate to fix it. Sigh. Ellen > >no that's the way that the Bush administration set up the peer to peer >computer communication authorization. > >On Jan 22, 2011, at 5:22 PM, James Waddick wrote: > >>> Why they have to physically verify your ID to use an online form, >>> but not to >>> use a mail-in form, is one of the great mysteries 21st century >>> America. >>> >>> Mike >> >> Dear Mike, >> >> 1. Because they are USDA >> >> 2. Because they can >> >> Nothing logical or mysterious Anonymous >> -- >> Dr. James W. Waddick >> 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. >> Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 >> USA >> Ph. 816-746-1949 >> Zone 5 Record low -23F >> Summer 100F + >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > >William Aley >aley_wd@me.com >www.aley.william.name > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki Ellen Hornig Seneca Hill Perennials 3712 Co. Rt. 57 Oswego NY 13126 Phone: 315-342-5915 Fax: 315-342-5573 www.senecahillperennials.com From awilson@avonia.com Sat Jan 22 18:56:38 2011 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: Seed permit Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 15:57:29 -0800 Hi Mike! Hmm! It did work for me last July. In fact, the whole process was surpisingly effective as I wanted to place an order in August to get seeds by early September. It worked. As this was a first and only time for me in many years I don't know how to advise you. Maybe the software has changed. Andrew -Andrew wrote: > Huh! Just scan in your ID. That's how it ought to work. But I contacted them directly, and even offered to send in a notarized copy of my ID. I was told that I had to present my ID in person, to a designated verification agent. Mike From klazina1@gmail.com Sat Jan 22 20:02:57 2011 Message-Id: <4D3B793E.9010808@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: Urceolina Peruviana Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 13:41:34 +1300 Does the Urceolina Peruviana set seed at all? I saw it in the Auckland Botanical Gardens and love it. It looked like there had been a seed head, with the seeds dispersed. Yet was told by someone that it doesn't set seed. I would love to try growing it from seed. Ina Crossley In humid, stormy Auckland in New Zealand From aley_wd@me.com Sat Jan 22 20:36:25 2011 Message-Id: <1C83EED5-3010-4C95-9B21-4C8638687F20@me.com> From: William Aley Subject: More info than you probably need about importing into the USA Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:36:19 -0500 >> About the import permits, >> >> Under the previous administration we were handed this process. It >> seems like the system is a government mess, designed under the >> rules imposed as the result of 911, it's a system that allows US >> residents and citizens to conduct computer peer to peer >> communication. It is also designed by civilians under contract to >> the government and is not owned by the government. In an effort to >> spread tax payer dollars back to the civilians, who are in the >> business of making money. That's the system we got and at this >> point in time it's what we have to work with. >> >> 1. Permits are required for small lots of seed permit and the >> general "Q-37" permit. All shipments are required to have a >> Phytosanitary certificate, but not required for the small lots of >> seed permit. >> >> Links that may be helpful >> ePermits. Designed to be helpful once you get over that annoying >> verification process. one trick is to click on the map to see >> validation sites near you, call to make sure they are open,. >> because of government cut backs some services are limited because >> of staffing shortages and funding. >> USDA did not invent it nor was it APHIS idea, it was a system >> designed and implemented by an elected official using private >> civilian contractors. USDA does not own nor can we change the >> system without paying more money to the civilians who are awarded >> the contract. > learn_epermits.shtml>http://www.aphis.usda.gov/permits/learn_epermits.shtml >> Mail/fax can still be used, it will take longer to get a permit >> because the paper submission is typed into the electronic system >> by a college student to get to the application to the right >> permit specialists. The more submissions received, the longer it >> takes them to get through the in-box. First in first out policy no >> expedited permits are done even when you have a brother who is an >> elected official. Its all FOIA documentation. >> No APHIS cannot hire more people to process permits because there >> is a hiring freeze in place, and only one person is hired for >> every two that leave. We are in the age of smaller government. >> >> Typing in the permit with epermits yourself means it will go >> directly to the permit writer. Thus saving time and possible >> errors. Picture an 18 year old college student at minimum wage >> processing your application. What level of quality control would >> you expect? >> >> If you apply for a permit know the regulations that you are >> applying for. >> 7 CFR319.37 is the regulation to be aware of. Just like getting a >> driver's license there are reasons why the permit is required. The >> rules were in place before anyone on this chat group were born and >> probably many of your grandparents too. Unless of course they are >> 145 years old, then I apologize. >> The 587 is the general import permit that most people will need, >> CITES is another level of import requirements, it's a trade >> regulation put in place by the "exporting" country, the importing >> country monitors and when things go wrong have to offer the plants >> back to the country of origin. >> links to permits: > >http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/permits/plantproducts.shtml >> >> Remember that these are free permits. Not so in all countries. The >> cost for issuing and monitoring is paid by all taxpayers, >> The Phytosanitary certificate is part of the international >> agreements. Shipments can be rejected for lack of this document. >> PPQ established the small lots of seed permit to help out small >> business, seed collectors and folks who found it difficult to >> obtain (cost is prohibitive in some countries) A US Phytosanitary >> certificate is about 50$ to obtain for US origin exports. >> > >http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/plant_imports/smalllots_seed.shtml >> this may be a good option for you if you do seed exchange into the >> USA, there are restrictions and every shipment must clear through a >> Plant Inspection Station. IT is only for seed that have no special >> restrictions. Know the import requirements first be fore you >> request or pay for a shipment. >> >> There is useful information under the circulars > >http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/permits/nursery.shtml >> for bulbs, seed and plants >> >> Bulbs that are precleared is an option from the exporting country, >> the inspection is the same overseas as if done in the USA. The >> foreign exporter pays for this service to have a US inspection and >> inspector in a foreign country, thus not all bulbs are precleared. >> >> Just a personal note after being on this chat group for four years >> now. >> Please understand that every year I check in and as a result I get >> the usual comments about my lineage and how much of a plant nazi I >> am and a few other comments. I realize that this is often >> individuals not this group. Which I find generally have a keen >> interest in plants. >> Please disregard this if you choose, I know I'm long winded and I >> never seem to make this simple, but regulations are complex and >> don't always make common sense, changing the federal regulations is >> a glacial process. My participation in this group is not >> entrapment, nor am I being a sneaky sleaze, in all honesty I can >> care less if you want to smuggle or think the government is out to >> get you personally, just be smart enough to realize that this is a >> public forum as part of the web. If you bring in dirty plants or an >> invasive plant it'll be your backyard that is ground zero. I hope >> your not my neighbor. Very few chat groups have the senior import >> specialist for plants for planting on their site, trust me I do >> grow plants and I have a valid import permit just like anyone else. >> If you have specific details I'll be glad to discuss off line. >> >> Bill > From eagle.85@verizon.net Sat Jan 22 20:47:12 2011 Message-Id: <343BB2BF-18CC-4391-BFB0-6671B0434B60@verizon.net> From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Fwd: Paramongaia weberbaueri pollen Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:46:59 -0800 Begin forwarded message: To the PBS member who requested Paramongaia weberbaueri pollen and I sent it. Did it "do the job"? I used what was left on the brush, and it appears that mine is developing seeds. "SELF FERTILE"? Please let me know. I have negotiated for another clone of Paramongaia weberbaueri to be certain that I am successful next year. Let me know and I will try to send some next year IF YOU REMIND ME! Regards, Doug Westfall _______________________________________________ From idavide@sbcglobal.net Sat Jan 22 21:08:13 2011 Message-Id: <549809.16539.qm@web81008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Seed permit Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 18:08:11 -0800 (PST) I sort of agree with you Mike, but Californians tend to drive up and down the state a bit.  So, I included a visit to Hollister as a short side extension to my next trip to visit friends in L.A.  Maybe on your next trip past Casa de Fruta .... ----- Original Message ---- From: Michael Mace To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 10:01:06 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Seed permit Mike wrote: >> When I first applied for my seed permit, I wasted a huge amount of time trying to figure out how I'd get over to my closest USDA office during business hours.  It's in Hollister, CA (a small town about 90 minutes south of San Jose).  Then finally I realized that I could just mail in the form. From butterflyamaryllis@yahoo.com Sat Jan 22 22:45:38 2011 Message-Id: <460561.27334.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: Seed permit Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 19:45:34 -0800 (PST) I am sorry my answer was so optimistic, because i already work for a branch of the USDA and am 'e-authenticated'.   I hope you get it figured out.   Good luck   James Frelichowski     --- On Fri, 1/21/11, Michael  wrote: From: Michael Mace Subject: Re: [pbs] Seed permit To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Date: Friday, January 21, 2011, 10:01 PM Dennis wrote: >> Wow. The e-application is hardly efficient or time-saving.  So now I have to drive to another county and show my photo ID ?!??  No thanks. I'll just mail in a paper application.  Geez. I had exactly the same reaction when I applied.  For those of you who are not familiar with what we're talking about, the US government gives you two ways to apply for a seed import permit -- you can sign up for the electronic filing system, or you can print and mail in a paper form.  The government website strongly encourages you to use the electronic system, and in fact it's hard to find the paper form at all. But to use the electronic system, your ID has to be hand-verified by an official of the US Department of Agriculture.  And USDA offices are, naturally, in rural areas where the farms are.  They don't have them in cities.  When I first applied for my seed permit, I wasted a huge amount of time trying to figure out how I'd get over to my closest USDA office during business hours.  It's in Hollister, CA (a small town about 90 minutes south of San Jose).  Then finally I realized that I could just mail in the form. Why they have to physically verify your ID to use an online form, but not to use a mail-in form, is one of the great mysteries 21st century America. Mike San Jose, CA From bulborum@gmail.com Sun Jan 23 02:40:09 2011 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Urceolina Peruviana Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 08:40:02 +0100 Hello Ina Try to find it under Stenomesson miniatum ( syn. Urceolina peruviana ) sure the plant makes seeds for multiplying in the nature but maybe you need 2 different plants to make seeds (self-sterile) you can ask Hans SRGS he found them in Australia Roland 2011/1/23 Ina Crossley : > Does the Urceolina Peruviana set seed at all?  I saw it in the Auckland > Botanical Gardens and love it. It looked like there had been a seed head, > with the seeds dispersed.  Yet was told by someone that it doesn't set seed. -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From bulborum@gmail.com Sun Jan 23 02:58:08 2011 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Bureaucracy (was Seed permit) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 08:58:07 +0100 In Belgium 4 students blocked with a large container the entrance from a phone company for some hours with a phone number on the container it is in Dutch sorry for that but with an English translation but this is how to do all over the world so they know how they treat us Roland http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxXlDyTD7wo&NR=1 2011/1/23 Ellen Hornig : > > But...but...couldn't it now be changed?  Now that we all know who to blame? > > This reminds me of when I recently spent about 6 hours trying to contact our cable company to report an outage (not 6 solid hours, but off and on).  When I finally got through to the right person and reported it, she scheduled us for repair 3 days hence, -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sun Jan 23 03:36:42 2011 Message-Id: <5424914.96096.1295771799669.JavaMail.www@wwinf1e29> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Bureaucracy (was Seed permit) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 09:36:39 +0100 (CET) Roland,  that is just hilarious! But did it work? Orange could be the next target. Mark > Message du 23/01/11 08:58 > De : "bulborum botanicum" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [pbs] Bureaucracy (was Seed permit) > > In Belgium 4 students blocked with a large container > the entrance from a phone company for some hours > with a phone number on the container > > it is in Dutch sorry for that but with an English translation > but this is how to do all over the world > so they know how they treat us > > Roland > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxXlDyTD7wo&NR=1 > > > > > > 2011/1/23 Ellen Hornig : > > > > But...but...couldn't it now be changed?  Now that we all know who to blame? > > > > This reminds me of when I recently spent about 6 hours trying to contact our cable company to report an outage (not 6 solid hours, but off and on).  When I finally got through to the right person and reported it, she scheduled us for repair 3 days hence, > > > -- > R de Boer > La Maugardiere 1 > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email:   bulborum@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From bulborum@gmail.com Sun Jan 23 03:54:14 2011 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Bureaucracy (was Seed permit) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 09:54:13 +0100 In Holland A famous comedian made a scandal he started a boycott agains this company this helped in a few weeks over 10.000 people helped boycotting this company in 2 weeks time the help-desk worked proper Orange is a good target I know an other target Cronopost 150 dead bulbs bulbs where 2 months on the road before returned to the sender I told them after 9 days to send them back Roland 2011/1/23 Mark BROWN : > Roland, >  that is just hilarious! > But did it work? > Orange could be the next target. > Mark -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sun Jan 23 04:07:13 2011 Message-Id: <4D3BEFCC.40602@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Urceolina Peruviana Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 22:07:24 +1300 Thanks Roland When I Googled Stenomesson miniatum, nothing came up. It wasn't until I used the Urceolina Peruviana that I had any joy. The Botanical Gardens gave both versions on their label. Of course they are on the PBS website. At least now I know they set seed, there is hope. Will keep looking for the seed. Does anyone on the PBS ever get seed from theirs? Ina in Auckland with floods from high tide and storms. On 8:59 a.m., bulborum botanicum wrote: > Hello Ina > > Try to find it under Stenomesson miniatum ( syn. Urceolina peruviana ) > sure the plant makes seeds for multiplying in the nature > but maybe you need 2 different plants to make seeds (self-sterile) > > you can ask Hans SRGS he found them in Australia > > Roland From bulborum@gmail.com Sun Jan 23 04:39:46 2011 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Urceolina Peruviana Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 10:39:41 +0100 It is sold out in the moment but try this site: http://www.ausgardener.com.au/plants/Urn-Flowers.html Roland 2011/1/23 Ina : > Thanks Roland > > When I Googled Stenomesson miniatum, nothing came up.  It wasn't until I > used the Urceolina Peruviana that I had any joy.  The Botanical Gardens gave -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From bulborum@gmail.com Sun Jan 23 04:48:43 2011 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Urceolina Peruviana Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 10:48:40 +0100 Hallo Ina I just found a site in NZ http://abbiejury.co.nz/2009/11/27/flowering-this-week-we-still-call-it-urceolina-peruviana/ Roland 2011/1/23 bulborum botanicum : > It is sold out in the moment but try this site: > > http://www.ausgardener.com.au/plants/Urn-Flowers.html -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sun Jan 23 05:02:55 2011 Message-Id: <9319079.93750.1295776972519.JavaMail.www@wwinf1g17> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Bureaucracy (was Seed permit) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 11:02:52 +0100 (CET) Chronopost is fairly hopeles for bulbs.The turkish post was much more efficient. It is good to know that these actions got results. But if clientele have to do this evry time, it is a sad reflection of the "organisations". Mark > Message du 23/01/11 09:54 > De : "bulborum botanicum" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [pbs] Bureaucracy (was Seed permit) > > In Holland A famous comedian made a scandal > he started a boycott agains this company > this helped in a few weeks > over 10.000 people helped boycotting this company > in 2 weeks time the help-desk worked proper > > Orange is a good target > > I know an other target > > Cronopost 150 dead bulbs > bulbs where 2 months on the road before returned to the sender > I told them after 9 days to send them back > > Roland > > > > 2011/1/23 Mark BROWN : > > Roland, > >  that is just hilarious! > > But did it work? > > Orange could be the next target. > > Mark > > > -- > R de Boer > La Maugardiere 1 > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email:   bulborum@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From group@shoalcreeksucculents.com Sun Jan 23 09:08:11 2011 Message-Id: <005801cbbb06$2ede9c90$8c9bd5b0$@shoalcreeksucculents.com> From: "Shoal Creek Succulents" Subject: Haemanthus deformis Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 08:02:28 -0600 Hello all- Below is a picture showing a recent bloom. In early 2010, with much concern on the success - I repotted this plant and was amazed with how fast it grew in size. Plant is kept in the greenhouse. http://www.flickr.com/photos/shoalcreeksucculents/5357162130/in/set-72157625 551270023/ Regards,Lisa Kane County, NW Chicago area, Illinois Temp currently -16.1C/3F From hornig@earthlink.net Sun Jan 23 09:36:39 2011 Message-Id: <3D6727E6280B47A184714B928E88D365@ellenPC> From: "Ellen Hornig" Subject: More info than you probably need about importing into the USA Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 09:36:43 -0500 Bill A - I'm curious (and I'm not being accusatory - it's not like you're responsible for this system) - what was the thinking behind requiring separate permits for small seed lots and general plant (or large seed lot) imports, when they are, at least as I understand it, the same type of permit. just differently designated? Why couldn't those of us who own general permits be allowed to use them for small seed lots too? Ellen Ellen Hornig Oswego NY 13126 USA USDA zone 5b ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Aley" To: Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 8:36 PM Subject: [pbs] More info than you probably need about importing into the USA >>> About the import permits, From aley_wd@me.com Sun Jan 23 10:02:59 2011 Message-Id: <299538FD-92F4-4AC2-8684-EFC84D6289C7@me.com> From: William Aley Subject: More info than you probably need about importing into the USA Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 10:02:50 -0500 Ellen, the small lots of seed do not require a phytosanitary certificate. The seeds are inspected at 100% at the USDA Plant Inspection Station. The limits to the small lots of seed permit are 50 lots not to exceed 50 grams or 50 seeds, each, which ever is greater. Its an arbitrary number and amount~ ie: 50 grams of larkspur seed verses 50 palm seed. Larger lots of seed (often up to several hundreds of Kilos) imported under the standard Q37 permit are often sampled by a Department of Homeland Security Customs Border Protection (DHS CBP) inspector at the first port of US entry, usually in a Customs Bonded warehouse. The inspectors could not easily inspect 100 Kilos of seed at 100% and get all of the other inspections accomplished in a day. The authorization as stated on the permit requires a phytosanitary certificate for the general permit and except for woody tree seed, a DHS CBP inspector can inspect the seed at the first port of entry. Under the small lots of seed the shipment must go to a Plant Inspection Station for inspection. Thus it is not a convenient as far as how fast or when the shipment is inspected. Also not all seed requires a permit for import into the USA, again know the rules of importation as stated in the CFR. Restrictions are based upon disease status of seed borne pathogens and insect pests and the country of origin. The pros and cons: obtain a PC and a CBP inspector can inspect and release at any port of entry OR use a small lots of seed permit, limited by weight, size and number and it must go to a plant inspection station, but no PC is required. This permit is a concession to individuals who tend to trade as a collector or for breeding purposes since the import regulations were put in place for commercial imports. Again, 100 years ago most people were not importing small amounts of seed into the USA. This change is less than 10 years old as a result of the way trade has evolved. Hope that helps. On Jan 23, 2011, at 9:36 AM, Ellen Hornig wrote: > Bill A - I'm curious (and I'm not being accusatory - it's not like > you're responsible for this system) - what was the thinking behind > requiring separate permits for small seed lots and general plant (or > large seed lot) imports, when they are, at least as I understand it, > the same type of permit. just differently designated? Why couldn't > those of us who own general permits be allowed to use them for small > seed lots too? > > Ellen > > Ellen Hornig > Oswego NY 13126 USA > USDA zone 5b > ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Aley" > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 8:36 PM > Subject: [pbs] More info than you probably need about importing into > the USA > > >>>> About the import permits, > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki William Aley aley_wd@me.com www.aley.william.name From hornig@earthlink.net Sun Jan 23 10:10:22 2011 Message-Id: <22CB55214B0047329602FFDE16FB9751@ellenPC> From: "Ellen Hornig" Subject: More info than you probably need about importing intothe USA Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 10:10:28 -0500 Thanks! That helps. Ellen Ellen Hornig Oswego NY 13126 USA USDA zone 5b ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Aley" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] More info than you probably need about importing intothe USA > Ellen, the small lots of seed do not require a phytosanitary certificate. > The seeds are inspected at 100% at the USDA Plant Inspection Station. The > limits to the small lots of seed permit are 50 lots not to exceed 50 > grams or 50 seeds, each, which ever is greater. Its an arbitrary number > and amount~ ie: 50 grams of larkspur seed verses 50 palm seed. > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun Jan 23 12:29:07 2011 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: More info than you probably need about importing into the USA Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 10:49:53 -0600 Dear Ellen, Mind if I add 2 cents? The Small lot seed program was only instituted a few years ago and I believe home gardeners, seed exchanges and collectors were seriously involved in these regulations. You might contact Joyce Fingerut of NARGS as she coordinated their efforts. I think Tony Avent was also involved. One thing that was involved was the formation of the European Unon. This union meant, in part, that phytosanitary inspection and certificates were generally no longer need for most plants from most countries. As a result of that, it became more difficult and expensive to actually get a phyto and this became even more difficult for the import of small lots of seeds. There are lots of home gardeners who import European vegetable and flower seed packets in Spring. As co-chair of an international seed exchange, the small lot program is both a boon and a constant hassle. In some cases seeds are delayed almost not at all or interminably and for no reason. The first import labels were labelled for delivery to Jamaica NY (home of JFK airport), but some/many were dutifully sent to Jamaica, the nation. Our worst situation was a five month delay for no obvious reason between departure from a donor in France and the eventual approval and delivery BACK to France instead to designated recipient, me. I have spoken to the inspector often enough to be on a first name basis and we can generally come to some agreement that fits our needs and the USDA regs. They are very understanding. Notwithstanding that the small lot program does in general make legal importation of small packets of seeds much easier and cheaper, there are still totally illogical aspects of USD importation that are not solved by 'knowing the regulations'. These regulations are often buried in text, convoluted and inconsistently enforced. My suggestion: KISS. I have had a variety of USDA permits for decades and it is important to follow the rules , as best you understand them, and keep up to date as best you can. Even doing this and keeping your nose to the grind stone, does not prevent you from the wrath of USDA, Customs, Border Patrol and/or Homeland Security all of which may compete to harass you for reasons not in your control (such as having an import enter at the wrong airport - not an approved port of entry). I won't get on my soap box, but call me if you want to talk about this and not on a public forum and hoping our phones are not tapped. I am not paranoid, unfortunately. Good luck and best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From hansennursery@coosnet.com Sun Jan 23 12:11:44 2011 Message-Id: <1C8AD6691A62402B8B18475D560B19CE@homed4aec9b2d8> From: "Robin Hansen" Subject: Importing Small Lots of Seed - Thanks Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 09:05:37 -0800 I want to thank Bill Aley for taking the time to explain the ins and outs of seed importation. We are very fortunate, Bill, that you offer a detailed, historical knowledge. For me, it really helps understand the process and I think others would agree. Robin Hansen North Bend, Oregon USA Importer of occasional "small lots of seed" ----- Original Message ----- From: Ellen Hornig To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] More info than you probably need about importingintothe USA Thanks! That helps. Ellen Ellen Hornig Oswego NY 13126 USA USDA zone 5b ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Aley" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] More info than you probably need about importing intothe USA > Ellen, the small lots of seed do not require a phytosanitary certificate. > The seeds are inspected at 100% at the USDA Plant Inspection Station. The > limits to the small lots of seed permit are 50 lots not to exceed 50 > grams or 50 seeds, each, which ever is greater. Its an arbitrary number > and amount~ ie: 50 grams of larkspur seed verses 50 palm seed. > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3396 - Release Date: 01/22/11 From adam14113@ameritech.net Sun Jan 23 13:40:41 2011 Message-Id: <42D9AE5CB47B487C88504122983D5C82@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: More info than you probably need about importing into theUSA Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 12:40:46 -0600 Re Ellen's good questionwhich I never asked... Was the thinking ever explicated? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ellen Hornig" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] More info than you probably need about importing into theUSA > Bill A - I'm curious (and I'm not being accusatory - it's not like you're > responsible for this system) - what was the thinking behind requiring > separate permits for small seed lots and general plant (or large seed lot) > imports, when they are, at least as I understand it, the same type of > permit. just differently designated? Why couldn't those of us who own > general permits be allowed to use them for small seed lots too? > > Ellen > > Ellen Hornig > Oswego NY 13126 USA > USDA zone 5b > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Aley" > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 8:36 PM > Subject: [pbs] More info than you probably need about importing into the > USA > > >>>> About the import permits, > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From llhorwitz@gmail.com Sun Jan 23 14:40:03 2011 Message-Id: From: Lola L Horwitz Subject: Stories about Bulbs Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 14:40:01 -0500 Michael: I would recommend M.M. Graff's *Flowers in the Winter Garden*(Doubleday, 1966) which is very opinionated and special for me since I knew the author well during her 80's and 90's, during which time she shared a great many of her opinions, most of them a pleasure to hear. Since you garden in San Jose and she gardened at the time of her writing in Manhasset, Long Island there won't be a lot of overlap. Another book might be E.A. Bowles *A Handbook of Narcissus . *Bowles has already been mentioned. For strong opinions handily delivered you could do no better than Reginald Farrer, although I'm not aware of any of his books that deals exclusively with bulbs.* *Lola Horwitz in zone 7 Brooklyn, NY which feels and looks more like zone 5 * * From mikemace@att.net Sun Jan 23 16:09:46 2011 Message-Id: <000901cbbb41$d9bcab80$8d360280$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Importing small lots of seed Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 13:09:40 -0800 Robin wrote: >> I want to thank Bill Aley for taking the time to explain the ins and outs of seed importation. I agree completely. Thanks, Bill! Mike From aley_wd@mac.com Sun Jan 23 19:01:48 2011 Message-Id: From: William Aley Subject: More info than you probably need about importing into theUSA Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 18:00:35 -0500 the small lots of seed permits do not require a phytosanitary certificate. The seeds are inspected at 100% at the USDA Plant Inspection Station. The limits to the small lots of seed permit are 50 lots not to exceed 50 grams or 50 seeds, each, which ever is greater. Its an arbitrary number and amount~ ie: 50 grams of larkspur seed verses 50 palm seed. Larger lots of seed (often up to several hundreds of Kilos) imported under the standard Q37 permit are often sampled by a Department of Homeland Security Customs Border Protection (DHS CBP) inspector at the first port of US entry, usually in a Customs Bonded warehouse. The inspectors could not easily inspect 100 Kilos of seed at 100% and get all of the other inspections accomplished in a day. The authorization as stated on the permit requires a phytosanitary certificate for the general permit and except for woody tree seed, a DHS CBP inspector can inspect the seed at the first port of entry. Under the small lots of seed the shipment must go to a Plant Inspection Station for inspection. Thus it is not a convenient as far as how fast or when the shipment is inspected. Also not all seed requires a permit for import into the USA, again know the rules of importation as stated in the CFR. Restrictions are based upon disease status of seed borne pathogens and insect pests and the country of origin. The pros and cons: obtain a PC and a CBP inspector can inspect and release at any port of entry OR use a small lots of seed permit, limited by weight, size and number and it must go to a plant inspection station, but no PC is required. This permit is a concession to individuals who tend to trade as a collector or for breeding purposes since the import regulations were put in place for commercial imports. Again, 100 years ago most people were not importing small amounts of seed into the USA. This change is less than 10 years old as a result of the way trade has evolved. Hope that helps.On Jan 23, 2011, at 1:40 PM, Adam Fikso wrote: > Re Ellen's good questionwhich I never asked... Was the thinking > ever explicated? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ellen Hornig" > > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 8:36 AM > Subject: Re: [pbs] More info than you probably need about importing > into theUSA > > >> Bill A - I'm curious (and I'm not being accusatory - it's not like >> you're responsible for this system) - what was the thinking behind >> requiring separate permits for small seed lots and general plant >> (or large seed lot) imports, when they are, at least as I >> understand it, the same type of permit. just differently >> designated? Why couldn't those of us who own general permits be >> allowed to use them for small seed lots too? From aley_wd@me.com Sun Jan 23 18:27:18 2011 Message-Id: From: William Aley Subject: Importing Small Lots of Seed - Thanks Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 18:27:09 -0500 Thanks Robin, In all honesty we do realize that the import system is not reflective of the modern processes. That being said we can not petition congress for change. We can amend the CFRs, and that is a very long process. The US system is great for transparency but can get bogged down with the need to appease as much of the population as possible. Public disclosure, forums & feedback help to keep us on track but this takes time and there is the ever looming problem that government needs to be smaller. Thus international agreements and making our regulations comparable to other countries becomes a slower process. For the plants for planting universe there are changes in the works. Some groups want to totally ban plant imports for reasons of fear to environmental pollution of the N. American biomes. http://www.invasive.org/gist/learnmore.html Where others think the government is too restrictive and all imports should be at the discretion of the individual. We try to find a balance. As I mentioned before the Hatch Act prohibits government employees from advocating change to elected official. But groups like this when organized can contact the Secretary of Agriculture directly with requests, recommendations and (most often) complaints. We do listen and try to find a balance and we try to help as much as we can within the limits of the CFR. For more information go to the PPQ website to be included in the stakeholder registry https://web01.aphis.usda.gov/PPQStakeWeb2.nsf there are a couple of presentations that may be useful too. UNITED STATES of AMERICA (716Kb) - Regulations Affecting Seed ... New information is added to the website from the NAPPRA rule (http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/plant_imports/Q37_nappra.shtml ) to Federal Orders that are the precursor to changing the CFR: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/plant_imports/Q37.shtml I do hope this helps. Bill From robin@no1bird.com Sun Jan 23 20:11:40 2011 Message-Id: <1AA8E9B778004A21AFBC99AE57CDE8DC@OwnerPC> From: "Robin Carrier" Subject: Importing Small Lots of Seed - Thanks Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 20:11:37 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Aley" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Importing Small Lots of Seed - Thanks > Thanks Robin, > In all honesty we do realize that the import system is not reflective of > the modern processes. That being said we can not petition congress for > change. We can amend the CFRs, and that is a very long process. The US > system is great for transparency but can get bogged down with the need to > appease as much of the population as possible. Public disclosure, forums > & feedback help to keep us on track but this takes time and there is the > ever looming problem that government needs to be smaller. Thus > international agreements and making our regulations comparable to other > countries becomes a slower process. > > For the plants for planting universe there are changes in the works. Some > groups want to totally ban plant imports for reasons of fear to > environmental pollution of the N. American biomes. > http://www.invasive.org/gist/learnmore.html Where others think the > government is too restrictive and all imports should be at the discretion > of the individual. We try to find a balance. > As I mentioned before the Hatch Act prohibits government employees from > advocating change to elected official. But groups like this when > organized can contact the Secretary of Agriculture directly with > requests, recommendations and (most often) complaints. We do listen and > try to find a balance and we try to help as much as we can within the > limits of the CFR. > > For more information go to the PPQ website to be included in the > stakeholder registry > https://web01.aphis.usda.gov/PPQStakeWeb2.nsf > there are a couple of presentations that may be useful too. > UNITED STATES of AMERICA (716Kb) - Regulations Affecting Seed ... > > New information is added to the website from the NAPPRA rule > (http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/plant_imports/Q37_nappra.shtml > ) to Federal Orders that are the precursor to changing the CFR: > http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/plant_imports/Q37.shtml > > I do hope this helps. > Bill > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Sun Jan 23 20:50:08 2011 Message-Id: <48903D82-2B6D-449D-A49C-97419476F1DE@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: More info than you probably need about importing into theUSA Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 17:49:59 -0800 Can I add a little to what Bill has so kindly explained to us, based on my experiences only, before and after the small lots of seeds permits were instituted? From about the early 1990s until shortly after the 9/11 attacks, I traded and even imported both seeds and bulbs from outside the U.S. into the U.S. without any permits or phytosanitary certificates (PC). I also had a plant import permit that did and still does require that you get a PC from the originating country before bringing the plants into the U.S. So I read in the material that they sent me with that permit that I didn't need to use the permit to import seeds or dry dormant bulbs. And indeed that is exactly what I did: I traded seeds with international friends who mailed them to me in envelopes and packages. I purchased seeds from other countries (e.g. Silverhill Seeds in South Africa) and had them sent directly to me without any permit or anything. I ordered bulbs from British and European companies directly as well as from Australia and New Zealand. I even brought bulbs and seeds back with me from travels I made abroad. I even brought back both bulbs and plants from Japan in my luggage. I got the necessary PC at the Tokyo (Narita) Airport before boarding my plane back and I only had to get the PC for the live plants and not for the bulbs or seeds. [BTW, Japan up until 8 years ago--I haven't been back since then so don't know if this is currently true--must have the best and easiest method for getting a PC of any country in the world. They have inspectors at the international airport. You call and make an appointment for about 2 hours before you needed to check in and after arriving at the airport went to the inspection office where they inspected all your plants for FREE, typed up a certificate, and sent you on your way!] Anyway, not too long after 9/11, the USDA/APHIS/PPQ suddenly announced one day that they now were going to require PCs and use of a plant import permit (which is still free--yay!) for any plant material of any kind including dry dormant bulbs and seeds. When many hobbyists and plant clubs blew up at this, they pointed out how they had always had the right according to law to do this, but had decided not to enforce it, lo! all these many decades. Sure enough, there it was in the law all this time. But now with increased security being in vogue, they decided to start enforcing it. I guess most people relented on the bulbs since they can easily carry viruses, etc. whether growing or dormant, but most seeds due the biological nature of how they come to form, are usually disease-free except for a few minor but important cases. Many people, spearheaded by Joyce Fingerut of NARGS, as Jim W. pointed out spent a lot of effort writing, emailing, and calling the USDA about how this new policy would essentially wipe out all legal trading of seeds, especially in small quantities, between other countries and the U.S., and only large corporations with the money and means to go through all the hassle of doing it legally would be the only ones importing seeds. The few times I called APHIS/PPQ headquarters or emailed them in the early days of this policy gave me the distinct impression that many of the agents there had no idea we were all trading seeds or of how difficult and/or expensive it is in most countries to get a PC, especially by individuals for a very small quantity of seeds. However, to their credit, as Bill has pointed out, they were sensitive and listened to all these comments and objections and not only invited many of us to join their stakeholders list, but came up with the small lots of seeds permit, which I think is a pretty good compromise and doesn't require the dreaded PC. I know there have been many bumps and kinks in getting it working at all the inspection stations across the U.S., but I have found that the agents at the local inspection station by LAX have tried very hard to be helpful while still trying to understand and follow the new regulations. They have always tried to help me follow the rules better each time I get some seeds through them where the sender didn't quite follow the rules exactly. I really have to give them credit for that. (Still, there is room for improvement...) I only wish there were a similarly easy way to import bulbs. I recently returned from a business trip to Brazil and Argentina, and got to meet with both Mauro Peixoto and Mariano Saviello again, and they both told me how extremely difficult it is to get a PC. Mariano told me it's so difficult in Argentina that he doesn't even try, and Mauro told me that in Brazil, the government will only issue PCs to commercial entities and won't issue them to private individuals making it basically impossible for him to get one under any circumstance. I'm not sure if there is anything in the international treaty governing PCs that addresses this, but I'm not sure our USDA recognizes this difficulty based on the conversations I've had with our local inspection agents and the national office. In other countries it can be incredibly expensive such as Australia where they charge quite a bit and you have to pay in minimum 15-minute increments. In some countries, you can only obtain a PC at one location in the capital city and nowhere else, effectively eliminating the ability to get a PC for individuals who don't live anywhere close to the capital (and can't afford to travel there due to cost or distance) even if the U.S. citizen is willing to pay for the PC. From what I've seen, 95% of the companies in other countries that I've looked into refuse to even try getting PCs. Anyway, this brings me up to the current situation we're in today, which is by no means perfect, but isn't too bad as far as seed importations are concerned. I think that APHIS/PPC needs to think more on the bulb importation method, since one of their stated goals is to make the regulations such that Americans *want* to follow and support them and not try to smuggle items in. And the current difficulties with getting PCs almost everywhere (although not impossible from England or South Africa for example), make the current regulations for bulb importations such that people will be strongly tempted to try smuggling some in now and then. IMHO. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a On Jan 23, 2011, at 3:00 PM, William Aley wrote: > the small lots of seed permits do not require a phytosanitary certificate. The seeds are inspected at 100% at the USDA Plant Inspection Station. The limits to the small lots of seed permit are 50 lots not to exceed 50 grams or 50 seeds, each, which ever is greater. Its an arbitrary number and amount~ ie: 50 grams of larkspur seed verses 50 palm seed. > Larger lots of seed (often up to several hundreds of Kilos) imported under the standard Q37 permit are often sampled by a Department of Homeland Security Customs Border Protection (DHS CBP) inspector at the first port of US entry, usually in a Customs Bonded warehouse. The inspectors could not easily inspect 100 Kilos of seed at 100% and get all of the other inspections accomplished in a day. > > The authorization as stated on the permit requires a phytosanitary certificate for the general permit and except for woody tree seed, a DHS CBP inspector can inspect the seed at the first port of entry. Under the small lots of seed the shipment must go to a Plant Inspection Station for inspection. > Thus it is not a convenient as far as how fast or when the shipment is inspected. Also not all seed requires a permit for import into the USA, again know the rules of importation as stated in the CFR. Restrictions are based upon disease status of seed borne pathogens and insect pests and the country of origin. > > The pros and cons: obtain a PC and a CBP inspector can inspect and release at any port of entry OR use a small lots of seed permit, limited by weight, size and number and it must go to a plant inspection station, but no PC is required. > > This permit is a concession to individuals who tend to trade as a collector or for breeding purposes since the import regulations were put in place for commercial imports. Again, 100 years ago most people were not importing small amounts of seed into the USA. > This change is less than 10 years old as a result of the way trade has evolved. > Hope that helps.On Jan 23, 2011, at 1:40 PM, Adam Fikso wrote: > >> Re Ellen's good questionwhich I never asked... Was the thinking ever explicated? >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ellen Hornig" >> To: "Pacific Bulb Society" >> Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 8:36 AM >> Subject: Re: [pbs] More info than you probably need about importing into theUSA >> >> >>> Bill A - I'm curious (and I'm not being accusatory - it's not like you're responsible for this system) - what was the thinking behind requiring separate permits for small seed lots and general plant (or large seed lot) imports, when they are, at least as I understand it, the same type of permit. just differently designated? Why couldn't those of us who own general permits be allowed to use them for small seed lots too? > From adam14113@ameritech.net Sun Jan 23 20:55:51 2011 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Importing Small Lots of Seed - Thanks Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 19:55:57 -0600 This extended information helps to explain WHY it's complicated. Some of it rests on prior legislation. But that could be amended and simplified... given a different environment. . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Carrier" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Importing Small Lots of Seed - Thanks > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Aley" > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 6:27 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Importing Small Lots of Seed - Thanks > > >> Thanks Robin, >> In all honesty we do realize that the import system is not reflective of >> the modern processes. That being said we can not petition congress for >> change. We can amend the CFRs, and that is a very long process. The US >> system is great for transparency but can get bogged down with the need >> to appease as much of the population as possible. Public disclosure, >> forums & feedback help to keep us on track but this takes time and there >> is the ever looming problem that government needs to be smaller. Thus >> international agreements and making our regulations comparable to other >> countries becomes a slower process. >> >> For the plants for planting universe there are changes in the works. >> Some groups want to totally ban plant imports for reasons of fear to >> environmental pollution of the N. American biomes. >> http://www.invasive.org/gist/learnmore.html Where others think the >> government is too restrictive and all imports should be at the >> discretion of the individual. We try to find a balance. >> As I mentioned before the Hatch Act prohibits government employees from >> advocating change to elected official. But groups like this when >> organized can contact the Secretary of Agriculture directly with >> requests, recommendations and (most often) complaints. We do listen and >> try to find a balance and we try to help as much as we can within the >> limits of the CFR. >> >> For more information go to the PPQ website to be included in the >> stakeholder registry >> https://web01.aphis.usda.gov/PPQStakeWeb2.nsf >> there are a couple of presentations that may be useful too. >> UNITED STATES of AMERICA (716Kb) - Regulations Affecting Seed ... >> >> New information is added to the website from the NAPPRA rule >> (http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/plant_imports/Q37_nappra.shtml >> ) to Federal Orders that are the precursor to changing the CFR: >> http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/plant_imports/Q37.shtml >> >> I do hope this helps. >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From msittner@mcn.org Sun Jan 23 21:25:21 2011 Message-Id: <20110124022520.D1A824C083@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Eastern Cape Trip Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 18:23:28 -0800 Thanks to all of you who have commented positively on my remarks and photos of our Eastern Cape trip. After Satansnek we traveled to Maclear through the rain. On the next day we were to be guided by Adele Moore who is an expert on orchids in the area. This part of the trip had been rained out before and we were keeping our fingers crossed. A portion of the road was flooded as we drove. It was a bit like traveling in a boat, not a car. But luck was with us as that night the rain stopped and we saw a wonderful rainbow. Maclear is in a beautiful valley in the foothills of the Drakensberg Mountains in the Eastern Cape. It is mostly grassland. The next day the weather was better and the water had soaked in the road and we were able to be guided by Adele. It happened to be my birthday and I was allowed to expand the number of favorite plants we could pick at the end of the day. Usually we voted on one favorite. We saw many orchids, but also some other spectacular plants. This is one of the reasons for the delay in posting another report. It has been taking me a very long time to resize our photos and to come up with the text for many of these plants were not previously included on the wiki. At the end of the day I asked to let us pick four plants since there were so many to choose from. We chose a Protea, Protea dracomontana, which was really spectacular as we found a large population with great variety of colors and forms, Pachycarpus campanulatus which was a fascinating plant we had to lie on our backs to photograph, (neither subjects for this group) and two geophytic orchids, Disa cornuta, and Eulophia welwitschii. Because there are so many plants we saw that day to share with you I have decided to make a Maclear page to save you having to look at many different links and I have split the species onto three pages. I'm not finished yet, but here is the first one that shows photos from A to D. Most of the photos were taken on the same day, but there were a few I put on this page that were already on the wiki from Cameron. He took those photos in February when he led Ellen Hornig and friends on a Maclear day. On today's wiki page are pictured these orchids: 5 species of Disa, 4 species of Disperis and a Corycium seen on this day. The Brownleea was photographed later in the year on Ellen's trip. We also saw the first of many Cyrtanthus epiphyticus and the very attractive Dierama reynoldsii. Mary Sue From mikemace@att.net Sun Jan 23 21:36:59 2011 Message-Id: <001301cbbb6f$9012db70$b0389250$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Importing Small Lots of Seed Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 18:36:53 -0800 Bill wrote: >> groups like this when organized can contact the Secretary of Agriculture directly with requests, recommendations and (most often) complaints. Lee wrote: >>Many people, spearheaded by Joyce Fingerut of NARGS, as Jim W. pointed out spent a lot of effort writing, emailing, and calling the USDA We've discussed this issue a few times before, but I just wanted to underline something. Here we have an official of the US government saying that they're open to suggestions from us, and we've got Lee recapping a case in which those suggestions worked. I've talked with Joyce, and she has several other examples where she was able to make a difference. It's really easy to feel helpless and cynical when dealing with a big government bureaucracy, but sometimes it does work. I'd like to ask the members of this list -- especially the Americans and the folks overseas who ship to the US -- to suspend disbelief when issues like this come up in the future. When the new regulations on plant imports are announced, I'm sure there will be an opportunity for us to help fine-tune the rules to accommodate our needs. And in the meantime, I think it would be *great* to see if we can get something similar to the small lots of seed program applied to small quantities of dry bulbs. I'm interested in pursuing that. Is anyone else interested? Mike PS: Thanks, Lee, for the excellent history. From oldtulips@yahoo.com Mon Jan 24 08:24:05 2011 Message-Id: <313637.44794.qm@web45205.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> From: r de vries Subject: easy pass for small quantities of dry bulbs Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 05:24:03 -0800 (PST) Great idea!  but they still have to be free of dirt and bugs and will likely require someone to certify that.... Rimmer de Vries  Michael Mace wrote:  And in the meantime, I think it would be *great* to see if we can get something similar to the small lots of seed program applied to small quantities of dry bulbs.  I'm interested in pursuing that. Is anyone else interested? Mike From aley_wd@me.com Mon Jan 24 10:39:39 2011 Message-Id: From: William Aley Subject: easy pass for small quantities of dry bulbs Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 10:39:34 -0500 It's a difficult dilemma for bulbs, when there are plant pests that only manifest during the green stage. Even a phytosanitary certificate cannot verify that there are no hidden pests and the challenge will be convincing scientist- pathologists, nematologists and entomologists that any bulb is free of all plant pests without conducting destructive analysis to verify this. I am open to suggestions, ideas and solutions. Joyce has asked us in the past about what it would take to have a small lots of plants permit and we have the scientists reply with "how do you know the bulbs are free of plant pests?" That is the purpose of the NAPPRA, which will require a pest risk assessment before any Genera and or Species will be considered generally enterable. This is another LONG winded topic. As I mentioned earlier, seeds are for the most part free of many destructive plant pests. Other plant parts have pathways for plant pests: stem borers, leaf minors, egg layers, cankers, galls, cysts, spores and fungus each plant pest has a particular process to ensure survivability and in this modern era transportation to a new environment. I don't think anyone in this group wants to be known as the importer responsible for a blight, new rust or plant pest that uses the imported plant as primary or an alternative host which might attack other plants both commercial or for hobbyists. For regulators there is the balance between enough information to have a high level of confidence and pest freedom and not so restrictive to be a barrier for free trade. One new pest out break can cost thousands to millions of dollars to clean up. Take Hosta X virus, not even a quarantine pest but a quality plant pest that the Hosta Folks are very concerned about, each shipment imported into the USA must pass a screening to have only a total of plants below a 5% contamination per shipment, the individual test is not cheap and someone pays for the test, time and validation during the in inspection, you do as it's all funded by taxpayer and user fees. Would anyone-one be willing to pay $300 for an import permit to fund inspection and verification at the port of entry for any particular shipment? Usually there is a universal no to that question and then our managers must balance perception with the current trend to make government smaller. But we still have pests like emerald ash borer that will make American Ash tree go the way of the American Chestnut, Asian longhorn beetles that feed uncontrolled on hardwood trees. Barberry rusts that overwinter on barberries and kill certain annual grasses like wheat. Don't even get me started on Phytophthora. Our entire staff works to look for the balance and constructive suggestions are always welcomed, were just folk who have this as our job, just like many of you deliver or make or fix something for a living. Our staff has no problem giving credit where it is due when folks come up with great solutions to the existing dilemmas as the rules we have now are what have been in place at least from 1979 and often way before that. Any positive movement to that balance would be an improvement. But remember that many people view us as the plant nazis or mindless bureaucrats who live for the opportunity to screw over the population. There is a reason why many of my counterparts refuse to be in a public forum to discuss these issues and their absence is often a reflection of vitriolic comments from folks that think they know a lot but may be missing some of the information, understand the rules that restrict or control legal options or even the history of how we got to this place we are at today. To be honest, we in the regulatory side don't have all the answers, I don't think we claim to be the experts in everything. Often groups that have an affinity for a particular subject are far more equipped at being experts because they have a collective passion for the subject. I really believe that one of you may just come up with a suggestion that would work and make sense or galvanize a collective to accept a stance not previously thought of. Individually each of us have our passions and needs and wants, but collectively the resources and knowledge is far greater and that when harnessed can help make this little , tiny, slow moving and often insignificant part of government work just a little bit better so more people have a level of satisfaction rather than disappointment. Perhaps that's what's meant by saying, "We the people" Bill's soapbox about import options On Jan 24, 2011, at 8:24 AM, r de vries wrote: > Great idea! > > but they still have to be free of dirt and bugs and will likely > require someone to certify that.... > > Rimmer de Vries > > > Michael Mace wrote: > > And in the meantime, I think it would be *great* to see if we can > get something similar to the small lots of seed program applied to > small > quantities of dry bulbs. I'm interested in pursuing that. Is anyone > else > interested? > > Mike > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki William Aley aley_wd@me.com www.aley.william.name From adam14113@ameritech.net Mon Jan 24 13:31:29 2011 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Importing Small Lots of Seed Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 12:31:36 -0600 Now this is important information, perhaps the most important so far-- in this troublesome area or regulation on top of regulation as presented in this forum. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Mace" To: Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Importing Small Lots of Seed > Bill wrote: > >>> groups like this when organized can contact the Secretary of Agriculture > directly with requests, recommendations and (most often) complaints. > > > Lee wrote: > >>>Many people, spearheaded by Joyce Fingerut of NARGS, as Jim W. pointed >>>out > spent a lot of effort writing, emailing, and calling the USDA > > > We've discussed this issue a few times before, but I just wanted to > underline something. Here we have an official of the US government saying > that they're open to suggestions from us, and we've got Lee recapping a > case > in which those suggestions worked. I've talked with Joyce, and she has > several other examples where she was able to make a difference. > > It's really easy to feel helpless and cynical when dealing with a big > government bureaucracy, but sometimes it does work. I'd like to ask the > members of this list -- especially the Americans and the folks overseas > who > ship to the US -- to suspend disbelief when issues like this come up in > the > future. > > When the new regulations on plant imports are announced, I'm sure there > will > be an opportunity for us to help fine-tune the rules to accommodate our > needs. And in the meantime, I think it would be *great* to see if we can > get something similar to the small lots of seed program applied to small > quantities of dry bulbs. I'm interested in pursuing that. Is anyone else > interested? > > Mike > > PS: Thanks, Lee, for the excellent history. > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From adam14113@ameritech.net Mon Jan 24 13:38:14 2011 Message-Id: From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: easy pass for small quantities of dry bulbs Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 12:38:20 -0600 Sounds good, Bill. NIce presentation. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Aley" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] easy pass for small quantities of dry bulbs > It's a difficult dilemma for bulbs, when there are plant pests that > only manifest during the green stage. Even a phytosanitary > certificate cannot verify that there are no hidden pests and the > challenge will be convincing scientist- pathologists, nematologists > and entomologists that any bulb is free of all plant pests without > conducting destructive analysis to verify this. I am open to > suggestions, ideas and solutions. > > Joyce has asked us in the past about what it would take to have a > small lots of plants permit and we have the scientists reply with "how > do you know the bulbs are free of plant pests?" > > That is the purpose of the NAPPRA, which will require a pest risk > assessment before any Genera and or Species will be considered > generally enterable. This is another LONG winded topic. > > As I mentioned earlier, seeds are for the most part free of many > destructive plant pests. Other plant parts have pathways for plant > pests: stem borers, leaf minors, egg layers, cankers, galls, cysts, > spores and fungus each plant pest has a particular process to ensure > survivability and in this modern era transportation to a new > environment. I don't think anyone in this group wants to be known as > the importer responsible for a blight, new rust or plant pest that > uses the imported plant as primary or an alternative host which might > attack other plants both commercial or for hobbyists. For regulators > there is the balance between enough information to have a high level > of confidence and pest freedom and not so restrictive to be a barrier > for free trade. > > One new pest out break can cost thousands to millions of dollars to > clean up. > > Take Hosta X virus, not even a quarantine pest but a quality plant > pest that the Hosta Folks are very concerned about, each shipment > imported into the USA must pass a screening to have only a total of > plants below a 5% contamination per shipment, the individual test is > not cheap and someone pays for the test, time and validation during > the in inspection, you do as it's all funded by taxpayer and user > fees. Would anyone-one be willing to pay $300 for an import permit to > fund inspection and verification at the port of entry for any > particular shipment? Usually there is a universal no to that question > and then our managers must balance perception with the current trend > to make government smaller. > But we still have pests like emerald ash borer that will make American > Ash tree go the way of the American Chestnut, Asian longhorn beetles > that feed uncontrolled on hardwood trees. Barberry rusts that > overwinter on barberries and kill certain annual grasses like wheat. > Don't even get me started on Phytophthora. > > Our entire staff works to look for the balance and constructive > suggestions are always welcomed, were just folk who have this as our > job, just like many of you deliver or make or fix something for a > living. > > Our staff has no problem giving credit where it is due when folks > come up with great solutions to the existing dilemmas as the rules we > have now are what have been in place at least from 1979 and often way > before that. Any positive movement to that balance would be an > improvement. But remember that many people view us as the plant nazis > or mindless bureaucrats who live for the opportunity to screw over the > population. There is a reason why many of my counterparts refuse to be > in a public forum to discuss these issues and their absence is often a > reflection of vitriolic comments from folks that think they know a lot > but may be missing some of the information, understand the rules that > restrict or control legal options or even the history of how we got > to this place we are at today. > > To be honest, we in the regulatory side don't have all the answers, I > don't think we claim to be the experts in everything. Often groups > that have an affinity for a particular subject are far more equipped > at being experts because they have a collective passion for the > subject. I really believe that one of you may just come up with a > suggestion that would work and make sense or galvanize a collective to > accept a stance not previously thought of. > Individually each of us have our passions and needs and wants, but > collectively the resources and knowledge is far greater and that when > harnessed can help make this little , tiny, slow moving and often > insignificant part of government work just a little bit better so more > people have a level of satisfaction rather than disappointment. > Perhaps that's what's meant by saying, "We the people" > > Bill's soapbox about import options > > > > > On Jan 24, 2011, at 8:24 AM, r de vries wrote: > >> Great idea! >> >> but they still have to be free of dirt and bugs and will likely >> require someone to certify that.... >> >> Rimmer de Vries >> >> >> Michael Mace wrote: >> >> And in the meantime, I think it would be *great* to see if we can >> get something similar to the small lots of seed program applied to >> small >> quantities of dry bulbs. I'm interested in pursuing that. Is anyone >> else >> interested? >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > William Aley > aley_wd@me.com > www.aley.william.name > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From eagle.85@verizon.net Mon Jan 24 14:17:08 2011 Message-Id: <91C89996-1CF4-4299-9CDB-9164B8BD6F94@verizon.net> From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Eastern Cape Trip Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:16:49 -0800 Mary Sue, I really enjoyed your pictures. Thanks for posting them. Regards, Doug Westfall From adam14113@ameritech.net Mon Jan 24 15:08:29 2011 Message-Id: <66C0B9F2C522426283ED0D5FE25DD100@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: More info than you probably need about importinginto theUSA Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 14:08:30 -0600 Yeah, Lee. I too have had a plant import license for years, (more than 50) imported stuff from Syria, Turkey---once in diplomatic pouch . The current situation increases the size of government,without, I suspect, offering necessary protection. Of course no studies have been done. "Wasteful spending". A "threat to national security" Gotta have bigger guns on it. More regulations---all of them appaently rational, once one accepts the national defense premise, and the myth that privatization can do it cheaper. (And it can-- if you accept the idea that jobs will be lost,that wil eventually cost the government more over the years) This is MY rant--probably socialist or something. ge ----- From: "Lee Poulsen" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 7:49 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] More info than you probably need about importinginto theUSA > Can I add a little to what Bill has so kindly explained to us, based on my > experiences only, before and after the small lots of seeds permits were > instituted? > > From about the early 1990s until shortly after the 9/11 attacks, I traded > and even imported both seeds and bulbs from outside the U.S. into the U.S. > without any permits or phytosanitary certificates (PC). I also had a plant > import permit that did and still does require that you get a PC from the > originating country before bringing the plants into the U.S. So I read in > the material that they sent me with that permit that I didn't need to use > the permit to import seeds or dry dormant bulbs. And indeed that is > exactly what I did: I traded seeds with international friends who mailed > them to me in envelopes and packages. I purchased seeds from other > countries (e.g. Silverhill Seeds in South Africa) and had them sent > directly to me without any permit or anything. I ordered bulbs from > British and European companies directly as well as from Australia and New > Zealand. I even brought bulbs and seeds back with me from travels I made > abroad. I even brought back both bulbs and plants from > Japan in my luggage. I got the necessary PC at the Tokyo (Narita) Airport > before boarding my plane back and I only had to get the PC for the live > plants and not for the bulbs or seeds. > > [BTW, Japan up until 8 years ago--I haven't been back since then so don't > know if this is currently true--must have the best and easiest method for > getting a PC of any country in the world. They have inspectors at the > international airport. You call and make an appointment for about 2 hours > before you needed to check in and after arriving at the airport went to > the inspection office where they inspected all your plants for FREE, typed > up a certificate, and sent you on your way!] > > Anyway, not too long after 9/11, the USDA/APHIS/PPQ suddenly announced one > day that they now were going to require PCs and use of a plant import > permit (which is still free--yay!) for any plant material of any kind > including dry dormant bulbs and seeds. When many hobbyists and plant clubs > blew up at this, they pointed out how they had always had the right > according to law to do this, but had decided not to enforce it, lo! all > these many decades. Sure enough, there it was in the law all this time. > But now with increased security being in vogue, they decided to start > enforcing it. I guess most people relented on the bulbs since they can > easily carry viruses, etc. whether growing or dormant, but most seeds due > the biological nature of how they come to form, are usually disease-free > except for a few minor but important cases. Many people, spearheaded by > Joyce Fingerut of NARGS, as Jim W. pointed out spent a lot of effort > writing, emailing, and calling the USDA about how this new > policy would essentially wipe out all legal trading of seeds, especially > in small quantities, between other countries and the U.S., and only large > corporations with the money and means to go through all the hassle of > doing it legally would be the only ones importing seeds. The few times I > called APHIS/PPQ headquarters or emailed them in the early days of this > policy gave me the distinct impression that many of the agents there had > no idea we were all trading seeds or of how difficult and/or expensive it > is in most countries to get a PC, especially by individuals for a very > small quantity of seeds. However, to their credit, as Bill has pointed > out, they were sensitive and listened to all these comments and objections > and not only invited many of us to join their stakeholders list, but came > up with the small lots of seeds permit, which I think is a pretty good > compromise and doesn't require the dreaded PC. I know there have been many > bumps and kinks in getting it working at al > l the inspection stations across the U.S., but I have found that the > agents at the local inspection station by LAX have tried very hard to be > helpful while still trying to understand and follow the new regulations. > They have always tried to help me follow the rules better each time I get > some seeds through them where the sender didn't quite follow the rules > exactly. I really have to give them credit for that. (Still, there is room > for improvement...) > > I only wish there were a similarly easy way to import bulbs. I recently > returned from a business trip to Brazil and Argentina, and got to meet > with both Mauro Peixoto and Mariano Saviello again, and they both told me > how extremely difficult it is to get a PC. Mariano told me it's so > difficult in Argentina that he doesn't even try, and Mauro told me that in > Brazil, the government will only issue PCs to commercial entities and > won't issue them to private individuals making it basically impossible for > him to get one under any circumstance. I'm not sure if there is anything > in the international treaty governing PCs that addresses this, but I'm not > sure our USDA recognizes this difficulty based on the conversations I've > had with our local inspection agents and the national office. In other > countries it can be incredibly expensive such as Australia where they > charge quite a bit and you have to pay in minimum 15-minute increments. In > some countries, you can only obtain a PC at one l > ocation in the capital city and nowhere else, effectively eliminating the > ability to get a PC for individuals who don't live anywhere close to the > capital (and can't afford to travel there due to cost or distance) even if > the U.S. citizen is willing to pay for the PC. From what I've seen, 95% of > the companies in other countries that I've looked into refuse to even try > getting PCs. > > Anyway, this brings me up to the current situation we're in today, which > is by no means perfect, but isn't too bad as far as seed importations are > concerned. I think that APHIS/PPC needs to think more on the bulb > importation method, since one of their stated goals is to make the > regulations such that Americans *want* to follow and support them and not > try to smuggle items in. And the current difficulties with getting PCs > almost everywhere (although not impossible from England or South Africa > for example), make the current regulations for bulb importations such that > people will be strongly tempted to try smuggling some in now and then. > IMHO. > > --Lee Poulsen > Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a > > > On Jan 23, 2011, at 3:00 PM, William Aley wrote: > >> the small lots of seed permits do not require a phytosanitary >> certificate. The seeds are inspected at 100% at the USDA Plant Inspection >> Station. The limits to the small lots of seed permit are 50 lots not to >> exceed 50 grams or 50 seeds, each, which ever is greater. Its an >> arbitrary number and amount~ ie: 50 grams of larkspur seed verses 50 >> palm seed. >> Larger lots of seed (often up to several hundreds of Kilos) imported >> under the standard Q37 permit are often sampled by a Department of >> Homeland Security Customs Border Protection (DHS CBP) inspector at the >> first port of US entry, usually in a Customs Bonded warehouse. The >> inspectors could not easily inspect 100 Kilos of seed at 100% and get all >> of the other inspections accomplished in a day. >> >> The authorization as stated on the permit requires a phytosanitary >> certificate for the general permit and except for woody tree seed, a DHS >> CBP inspector can inspect the seed at the first port of entry. Under the >> small lots of seed the shipment must go to a Plant Inspection Station for >> inspection. >> Thus it is not a convenient as far as how fast or when the shipment is >> inspected. Also not all seed requires a permit for import into the USA, >> again know the rules of importation as stated in the CFR. Restrictions >> are based upon disease status of seed borne pathogens and insect pests >> and the country of origin. >> >> The pros and cons: obtain a PC and a CBP inspector can inspect and >> release at any port of entry OR use a small lots of seed permit, limited >> by weight, size and number and it must go to a plant inspection station, >> but no PC is required. >> >> This permit is a concession to individuals who tend to trade as a >> collector or for breeding purposes since the import regulations were put >> in place for commercial imports. Again, 100 years ago most people were >> not importing small amounts of seed into the USA. >> This change is less than 10 years old as a result of the way trade has >> evolved. >> Hope that helps.On Jan 23, 2011, at 1:40 PM, Adam Fikso wrote: >> >>> Re Ellen's good questionwhich I never asked... Was the thinking ever >>> explicated? >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ellen Hornig" >>> To: "Pacific Bulb Society" >>> Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 8:36 AM >>> Subject: Re: [pbs] More info than you probably need about importing into >>> theUSA >>> >>> >>>> Bill A - I'm curious (and I'm not being accusatory - it's not like >>>> you're responsible for this system) - what was the thinking behind >>>> requiring separate permits for small seed lots and general plant (or >>>> large seed lot) imports, when they are, at least as I understand it, >>>> the same type of permit. just differently designated? Why couldn't >>>> those of us who own general permits be allowed to use them for small >>>> seed lots too? >> > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From miller7398@comcast.net Mon Jan 24 15:25:03 2011 Message-Id: From: "Joyce Miller" Subject: Off topic Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 12:24:56 -0800 Attention Jim Shields, I halve a spelling chequir, it came with my pea sea, it plainly marques four my revue miss steaks I kin knot sea, eye strike a key and type a word and weight four it two say weather eye am wrong oar write, it shows me strait a weigh, as soon as a miss ache is maid, it nose bee fore two long, and eye can put the error write, its rare lea ever wrong, so I run all of my writing threw it, a am shore your pleased to no its letter perfect awl the weigh, my chequer tolled me sew. Guess who? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5813 (20110124) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From idavide@sbcglobal.net Mon Jan 24 15:52:15 2011 Message-Id: <385740.30579.qm@web81003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Off topic Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 12:52:13 -0800 (PST) I submitted this to the Microsoft Word spelling and grammer checker.  It found no grammatical errors, but didn't like the way you spelled sequin. ----- Original Message ---- From: Joyce Miller To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Mon, January 24, 2011 12:24:56 PM Subject: [pbs] Off topic Attention Jim Shields, I halve a spelling chequir, it came with my pea sea, it plainly marques four my revue miss steaks I kin knot sea, eye strike a key and type a word and weight four it two say weather eye am wrong oar write, it shows me strait a weigh, as soon as a miss ache is maid, it nose bee fore two long, and eye can put the error write, its rare lea ever wrong, so I run all of my writing threw it, a am shore your pleased to no its letter perfect awl the weigh, my chequer tolled me sew. Guess who? __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5813 (20110124) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From xerantheum@gmail.com Mon Jan 24 17:50:54 2011 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Biggest plant genome found Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 14:50:51 -0800 Dear geophyte lovers, Recent news in the hot area of genome biology found that a geophyte, Paris japonica, holds the record for having the largest eukaryotic gemone ever found. Here is a bit from Science Magazine: "Now THAT's a genome. A rare Japanese flower named *Paris japonica* sports an astonishing 149 billion base pairs, making it 50 times the size of a human genome—and the largest genome ever found. Until now, the biggest genome belonged to the marbled lungfish, whose 130 billion base pairs weighed in at an impressive 132.83 picograms. (A picogram is one-trillionth of a gram). The genome of the new record-holder, revealed in a paperin the *Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society*, would be taller than Big Ben if stretched out end to end. (The smallest genome known among organisms with nuclei is that of a mammalian parasite known as *Encephalitozoon intestinalis*, with a relatively paltry 2.25 million base pairs). The researchers warn however that big genomes tend to be a liability: plants with lots of DNA have more trouble tolerating pollution and extreme climatic extinctions—and they grow more slowly than plants with less DNA, because it takes so long to replicate their genome." Nhu Berkeley CA -- unusually sunny and warm this past week -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/ From dkramb@gmail.com Mon Jan 24 19:55:09 2011 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Griffinia Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 19:55:08 -0500 I got one of the Griffinia bulbs from the last BX. I think it's a bit on the soft side. I'm guessing it got frozen at some point in transit during the recent super-cold spell. Can someone confirm my suspicions that it should be hard like a normal Hippeastrum bulb? Or is slightly soft actually normal for this species? From mikemace@att.net Tue Jan 25 01:41:36 2011 Message-Id: <003901cbbc5a$e61a4170$b24ec450$@net> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: easy pass for small quantities of dry bulbs Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 22:41:30 -0800 Thanks, Bill, for the detailed thoughts on importing bulbs. I have some ideas on the questions you asked, but I have a feeling they'd be off topic for most readers on the list. So I'll send you a note separately. If anybody else on the list wants to join that conversation, drop me a note and I'll be glad to include you. Thanks, Mike From zonneveld@nhn.leidenuniv.nl Tue Jan 25 04:28:08 2011 Message-Id: <15F108E49358A34DAF66E35648695D5101D00F2A@vstpst03.nhncml.org> From: "Zonneveld, B.J.M. (Ben)" Subject: Llargest genome Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 10:28:04 +0100 Yes Paris japonica has the largest genome so far of all The second was not a plant but a lungfish However the highest plant so far recorded was Trillium hagae with 264.9 picogram Although the Paris is the highest now, so the the highest monocot, he highest dicot is still Viscum album (mistletoe) with 205.8 picigram ( zonneveld (2010)J of botany vol 2010 article ID 527357, doi 10.1155/2010/527357 For comparison Humans = 6.5 pg and rice 1pg Ben J.M.Zonneveld Nationaal Herbarium Nederland POBox 9514 2300 RA Leiden, The Netherlands telf 071 5274738 E-mail: Zonneveld@NHN.Leidenuniv.nl From msittner@mcn.org Tue Jan 25 11:53:20 2011 Message-Id: <20110125165318.DD9FB4C254@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Eastern Cape Trip Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 08:52:43 -0800 I have added to the wiki my second page of plants seen in the Maclear district. This page includes more orchids. We saw five different and often amazing species of Eulophia on the same day and a Habenaria species. Photos on the wiki previously from this district included a Holothrix and several Gladiolus species probably photographed in February. We saw Gladiolus inandensis, but not the other two. I've added some leaves of unidentified Eriospermum and Ledebouria species and a wonderfully hairy Hypoxis costata. I'm not sure why Eulophia welwitschii was chosen over all the other wonderful Eulophia species to be a favorite of the day. Perhaps it was because someone spotted it on the day before growing in a marshy area as we were driving to our location in the rain and we weren't at all sure we were going to be able to come back and actually see it up close the next day. I hope you enjoy the pictures. Mary Sue From awilson@avonia.com Tue Jan 25 17:54:34 2011 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: Eastern Cape Trip Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:54:41 -0800 More eulophias - great! Fine shots added. Do let us know if you find Eulophia callichroma. It is a species I have subjected here to rather drier conditions than what you appear to be going through. For how any months the grasslands remain green would also be worth finding out. Well worth reporting all this. Andrew San Diego I have added to the wiki my second page of plants seen in the Maclear district. This page includes more orchids. We saw five different and often amazing species of Eulophia on the same day and a Habenaria species. Photos on the wiki previously from this district included a Holothrix and several Gladiolus species probably photographed in February. We saw Gladiolus inandensis, but not the other two. I've added some leaves of unidentified Eriospermum and Ledebouria species and a wonderfully hairy Hypoxis costata. I'm not sure why Eulophia welwitschii was chosen over all the other wonderful Eulophia species to be a favorite of the day. Perhaps it was because someone spotted it on the day before growing in a marshy area as we were driving to our location in the rain and we weren't at all sure we were going to be able to come back and actually see it up close the next day. I hope you enjoy the pictures. Mary Sue From Santoury@aol.com Tue Jan 25 19:02:15 2011 Message-Id: <8CD8B036012F654-192C-28B6@webmail-d050.sysops.aol.com> From: santoury@aol.com Subject: Griffinia Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:01:54 -0500 Mine was a bit soft, too. The Hippeastrum leaves and roots were dead also. -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Kramb To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Mon, Jan 24, 2011 7:55 pm Subject: [pbs] Griffinia I got one of the Griffinia bulbs from the last BX. I think it's a bit on the soft side. I'm guessing it got frozen at some point in transit during the recent super-cold spell. Can someone confirm my suspicions that it should be hard like a normal Hippeastrum bulb? Or is slightly soft actually normal for this species? _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From xerantheum@gmail.com Tue Jan 25 19:06:06 2011 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Griffinia Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:06:04 -0800 Dennis, The bulbs should be firm. Try planting it anyway and hopefully it will grow out of it. Nhu that it should be hard like a normal Hippeastrum bulb? > -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/ From arnold140@verizon.net Tue Jan 25 22:04:16 2011 Message-Id: <412678559.545742.1296011045110.JavaMail.root@vznit170072> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Eastern Cape Trip Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 21:04:05 -0600 (CST) Mary Sue: Enjoyed the images. Hope to see some of them in a upcoming Bulb Garden! Arnold From joshy46013@yahoo.com Wed Jan 26 00:14:37 2011 Message-Id: <648697.30424.qm@web121708.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Josh Young Subject: Griffinia Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 21:14:35 -0800 (PST) The Hippeastrum are small, I'd assume their leaves and roots to die back This wont impede growing if you plant right away and make sure not to overwater to avoid rot. That is the wonder of bulbs... Josh ________________________________ From: "santoury@aol.com" To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Tue, January 25, 2011 7:01:54 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Griffinia Mine was a bit soft, too. The Hippeastrum leaves and roots were dead also. From Santoury@aol.com Wed Jan 26 08:53:53 2011 Message-Id: <8CD8B77930FFE58-E10-B3A1@webmail-d099.sysops.aol.com> From: santoury@aol.com Subject: Griffinia Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 08:53:41 -0500 That's what I figured as well - Thank you everybody for making this all possible. Jude -----Original Message----- From: Josh Young To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Wed, Jan 26, 2011 12:14 am Subject: Re: [pbs] Griffinia The Hippeastrum are small, I'd assume their leaves and roots to die back This wont impede growing if you plant right away and make sure not to overwater to avoid rot. That is the wonder of bulbs... Josh ________________________________ From: "santoury@aol.com" To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Tue, January 25, 2011 7:01:54 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Griffinia Mine was a bit soft, too. The Hippeastrum leaves and roots were dead also. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From msittner@mcn.org Thu Jan 27 10:47:44 2011 Message-Id: <20110127154743.7A5424C008@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Eastern Cape Trip Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 07:47:13 -0800 Hi, Andrew asks a good question I can't answer about how long the grassland remains green. Hopefully when Cameron returns he can help me add a bit more information about some of the places I am describing. I have added a main page with habitat photos for Maclear along with a table for the different species. <http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Maclear > I realized after the fact that the next morning early on our way to our next stop we found some more treasures that belong to this district: Brunsvigia grandiflora, Gloriosa modesta (syn. Littonia modesta), and Hypoxis rigidula. I found the Brunsvigia very interesting since it is the only species of the ones I have tried to grow that has ever bloomed more than once (two years in a row before skipping 2010). In fact mine had been blooming December 2009 in the Northern hemisphere so it was surprising to find it in bloom a month later in the Southern hemisphere in very different conditions. You can access it from the table. And finally I added the third and last species page for Maclear. This page has a variety of different plants from different families. There is Moraea albicuspa, Tritonia drakensbergensis Cameron saw on another trip and a couple of Watsonias from the Iris family, three Oxalis species, more orchids (Satyrium, Schizochilus), Wurmbea kraussii and Zantedeschia albomaculata. As we didn't have any Oxalis experts in our group, hopefully Christiaan will check to see if I identified them correctly. We were mostly looking at what was illustrated in our field guides. We also saw Rhodohypoxis baurii and what the experts thought was a naturally occurring hybrid between it and Hypoxis argentea. I must confess it was one of those times I didn't crawl between the barbed wire fence so I didn't see it, but someone picked the three flowers and laid them on cardboard and I did get to see that. I didn't find that either Cameron or Bob had photographed Hypoxis argentea so I could add it to the wiki as well. After Maclear we made our way to Naude's Nek where we spent part of two days looking at flowers. This was a most amazing place and as long as it took me to do Maclear, doing it will be a major project. So I think I'll skip it for now and my next report will be two days later. Eventually I'll do a page for Naude's Nek. Mary Sue From jwickham@sbcglobal.net Thu Jan 27 15:52:31 2011 Message-Id: <947878.98087.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: John Wickham Subject: Old Watsonia Hybrids Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:52:29 -0800 (PST) I found a thread on the PBS list from 2003 concerning Watsonia hybrids. I was wondering if any more work had been done in identifying old hybrids. I have access to some data concerning old hybrids by Mrs. Bullard. It would be great to match up any surviving hybrids with that data if possible. John Wickham From eagle.85@verizon.net Thu Jan 27 16:40:33 2011 Message-Id: <25E4B68A-BC84-4AAA-8B28-7EA7BBAB8D1F@verizon.net> From: Douglas Westfall Subject: "Scad. cinnabarinus Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 13:38:47 -0800 Mary Sue, Who do you consider to be the "leading authority" on Scadoxus? Doug From jonathanhutchinson@rhs.org.uk Fri Jan 28 03:08:56 2011 Message-Id: From: Subject: "Scad. cinnabarinus Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:08:53 +0000 I would have thought that Prof.Ib Friss and Prof. Inger Nordal would be given that accolade as they produced a number of papers giving a taxanomic review of the whole genus and separating them from Haemanthus. These were published in the Norwegian journal of Botany. Jonathan -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Westfall Sent: 27 January 2011 21:39 To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] "Scad. cinnabarinus Mary Sue, Who do you consider to be the "leading authority" on Scadoxus? Doug From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Fri Jan 28 03:25:25 2011 Message-Id: <003f01cbbec4$eb30c320$2201a8c0@MAINPC> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: "Scad. cinnabarinus Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:25:27 -0000 Jonathan might have mentioned that he has a certain expertise in these genera himself, being holder of a National Plant Collection of them here in the UK. Dr Dee Snijman is an authority on Amaryllidaceae in South Africa. John Grimshaw Visit John Grimshaw's Garden Diary http://johngrimshawsgardendiary.blogspot.com/ Dr. John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: [pbs] "Scad. cinnabarinus >I would have thought that Prof.Ib Friss and Prof. Inger Nordal would be >given that accolade as they produced a number of papers giving a taxanomic >review of the whole genus and separating them from Haemanthus. These were >published in the Norwegian journal of Botany. > From btankers@gmail.com Fri Jan 28 12:33:11 2011 Message-Id: From: Boyce Tankersley Subject: More info than you probably need about importing into the USA Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 11:33:08 -0600 Hi Bill: I can't speak for everyone but I have found your comments very helpful. Yes, things have changed, and yes, they got more complicated. I appreciate your taking the time and interest to answer the PBS questions. Boyce Tankersley On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 7:36 PM, William Aley wrote: > About the import permits, >>> >>> Under the previous administration we were handed this process. It seems >>> like the system is a government mess, designed under the rules imposed as >>> the result of 911, it's a system that allows US residents and citizens to >>> conduct computer peer to peer communication. It is also designed by >>> civilians under contract to the government and is not owned by the >>> government. In an effort to spread tax payer dollars back to the civilians, >>> who are in the business of making money. That's the system we got and at >>> this point in time it's what we have to work with. >>> >>> 1. Permits are required for small lots of seed permit and the general >>> "Q-37" permit. All shipments are required to have a Phytosanitary >>> certificate, but not required for the small lots of seed permit. >>> >>> Links that may be helpful >>> ePermits. Designed to be helpful once you get over that annoying >>> verification process. one trick is to click on the map to see validation >>> sites near you, call to make sure they are open,. because of government cut >>> backs some services are limited because of staffing shortages and funding. >>> USDA did not invent it nor was it APHIS idea, it was a system designed >>> and implemented by an elected official using private civilian contractors. >>> USDA does not own nor can we change the system without paying more money to >>> the civilians who are awarded the contract. < >>> http://www.aphis.usda.gov/permits/learn_epermits.shtml> >>> http://www.aphis.usda.gov/permits/learn_epermits.shtml >>> Mail/fax can still be used, it will take longer to get a permit because >>> the paper submission is typed into the electronic system by a college >>> student to get to the application to the right permit specialists. The more >>> submissions received, the longer it takes them to get through the in-box. >>> First in first out policy no expedited permits are done even when you have a >>> brother who is an elected official. Its all FOIA documentation. >>> No APHIS cannot hire more people to process permits because there is a >>> hiring freeze in place, and only one person is hired for every two that >>> leave. We are in the age of smaller government. >>> >>> Typing in the permit with epermits yourself means it will go directly to >>> the permit writer. Thus saving time and possible errors. Picture an 18 year >>> old college student at minimum wage processing your application. What level >>> of quality control would you expect? >>> >>> If you apply for a permit know the regulations that you are applying for. >>> 7 CFR319.37 is the regulation to be aware of. Just like getting a >>> driver's license there are reasons why the permit is required. The rules >>> were in place before anyone on this chat group were born and probably many >>> of your grandparents too. Unless of course they are 145 years old, then I >>> apologize. >>> The 587 is the general import permit that most people will need, CITES is >>> another level of import requirements, it's a trade regulation put in place >>> by the "exporting" country, the importing country monitors and when things >>> go wrong have to offer the plants back to the country of origin. >>> links to permits: < >>> http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/permits/plantproducts.shtml> >>> http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/permits/plantproducts.shtml >>> >>> Remember that these are free permits. Not so in all countries. The cost >>> for issuing and monitoring is paid by all taxpayers, >>> The Phytosanitary certificate is part of the international agreements. >>> Shipments can be rejected for lack of this document. >>> PPQ established the small lots of seed permit to help out small business, >>> seed collectors and folks who found it difficult to obtain (cost is >>> prohibitive in some countries) A US Phytosanitary certificate is about 50$ >>> to obtain for US origin exports. >>> < >>> http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/plant_imports/smalllots_seed.shtml >>> > >>> http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/plant_imports/smalllots_seed.shtml >>> this may be a good option for you if you do seed exchange into the USA, >>> there are restrictions and every shipment must clear through a Plant >>> Inspection Station. IT is only for seed that have no special restrictions. >>> Know the import requirements first be fore you request or pay for a >>> shipment. >>> >>> There is useful information under the circulars < >>> http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/permits/nursery.shtml> >>> http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/permits/nursery.shtml >>> for bulbs, seed and plants >>> >>> Bulbs that are precleared is an option from the exporting country, the >>> inspection is the same overseas as if done in the USA. The foreign exporter >>> pays for this service to have a US inspection and inspector in a foreign >>> country, thus not all bulbs are precleared. >>> >>> Just a personal note after being on this chat group for four years now. >>> Please understand that every year I check in and as a result I get the >>> usual comments about my lineage and how much of a plant nazi I am and a few >>> other comments. I realize that this is often individuals not this group. >>> Which I find generally have a keen interest in plants. >>> Please disregard this if you choose, I know I'm long winded and I never >>> seem to make this simple, but regulations are complex and don't always make >>> common sense, changing the federal regulations is a glacial process. My >>> participation in this group is not entrapment, nor am I being a sneaky >>> sleaze, in all honesty I can care less if you want to smuggle or think the >>> government is out to get you personally, just be smart enough to realize >>> that this is a public forum as part of the web. If you bring in dirty plants >>> or an invasive plant it'll be your backyard that is ground zero. I hope your >>> not my neighbor. Very few chat groups have the senior import specialist >>> for plants for planting on their site, trust me I do grow plants and I have >>> a valid import permit just like anyone else. If you have specific details >>> I'll be glad to discuss off line. >>> >>> Bill >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From miller7398@comcast.net Fri Jan 28 16:15:01 2011 Message-Id: <7731C4A4FE384A16AF97A32040EC8921@tapa965> From: "Joyce Miller" Subject: O.T. Waxing nostalgic Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:14:54 -0800 This morning's email took me back a few years when International Bulb Society was extant. We had quite a few Ozzie members who had terrific senses of humor. I looked forward to one member's post. Will Ashburner posted the Australian version of the Darwin Awards. Miss those guys. Here are some US nominees with the ultimate winner. Best wishes, Joyce Miller, Gresham, OR USDA 8. The Darwin Award nominees are: Nominee No. 1: [ San Jose Mercury News]: An unidentified man, using a shotgun like a club to break a former girlfriend's windshield, accidentally shot himself to death when the gun discharged, blowing a hole in his gut. Nominee No. 2: [ Kalamazoo Gazette]: James Burns, 34, (a mechanic) of Alamo , MI , was killed in March as he was trying to repair what police describe as a "farm-type truck." Burns got a friend to drive the truck on a highway while Burns hung underneath so that he could ascertain the source of a troubling noise. Burns' clothes caught on something, however, and the other man found Burns "wrapped in the drive shaft." Nominee No. 3: [ Hickory Daily Record]: Ken Charles Barger, 47, accidentally shot himself to death in December in Newton , NC . Awakening to the sound of a ringing telephone beside his bed, he reached for the phone but grabbed instead a Smith &Wesson 38 Special, which discharged when he drew it to his ear. Nominee No. 4: [UPI, Toronto ]: Police said a lawyer demonstrating the safety of windows in a downtown Toronto skyscraper crashed through a pane with his shoulder and plunged 24 floors to his death.? A police spokesman said Garry Hoy, 39, fell into the courtyard of the Toronto Dominion Bank Tower early Friday evening as he was explaining the strength of the building's windows to visiting law students. Hoy previously has conducted demonstrations of window strength according to police reports. Peter Lawson, managing partner of the firm Holden Day Wilson, told the Toronto Sun newspaper that Hoy was "one of the best and brightest" of their 200-member lawyer association. Nominee No. 5: [The News of the Weird]: Michael Anderson Godwin made News of the Weird posthumously. He had spent several years awaiting South Carolina 's electric chair on a murder conviction before having his sentence reduced to life in prison. While sitting on a metal toilet in his cell attempting to fix his small TV set, he bit into a wire and was electrocuted. Nominee No. 6: [The Indianapolis Star]: A cigarette lighter may have triggered a fatal explosion in Dunkirk , IN. A Jay County man, using a cigarette lighter to check the barrel of a muzzleloader, was killed Monday night when the weapon discharged in his face, sheriff's investigators said. Gregory David Pryor, 19, died in his parents' rural Dunkirk home at about 11:30 PM. Investigators said Pryor was cleaning a 54-caliber muzzle-loader that had not been firing properly. He was using the lighter to look into the barrel when the gunpowder ignited. Nominee No. 7: [Reuters, Mississauga , Ontario ]: A man cleaning a bird feeder on the balcony of his condominium apartment in this Toronto suburb slipped and fell 23 stories to his death. "Stefan Macko, 55, was standing on a wheelchair when the accident occurred," said Inspector Darcy Honer of the Peel Regional Police. "It appears that the chair moved, and he went over the balcony," Honer said. And, THIS one, you're going to LOVE!! Finally, THE WINNER!!!: [ Arkansas Democrat Gazette]: Two local men were injured when their pickup truck left the road and struck a tree near Cotton Patch on State Highway 38 early Monday. Woodruff County Deputy Dovey Snyder reported the accident shortly after midnight Monday. Thurston Poole, 33, of Des Arc, and Billy Ray Wallis, 38, of Little Rock , were returning to Des Arc after a frog-catching trip.. On an overcast Sunday night, Poole 's pickup truck headlights malfunctioned. The two men concluded that the headlight fuse on the older-model truck had burned out. As a replacement fuse was not available, Wallis noticed that the ..22 caliber bullets from his pistol fitted perfectly into the fuse box next to the steering-wheel column. Upon inserting the bullet the headlights again began to operate properly, and the two men proceeded on eastbound toward the White River Bridge . After traveling approximately 20 miles, and just before crossing the river, the bullet apparently overheated, discharged and struck Poole in the testicles. The vehicle swerved sharply right, exited the pavement, and struck a tree. Poole suffered only minor cuts and abrasions from the accident but will require extensive surgery to repair the damage to his testicles, which will never again operate as intended. Wallis sustained a broken clavicle and was treated and released. "Thank God we weren't on that bridge when Thurston shot his balls off, or we might be dead," stated Wallis. "I've been a trooper for 10 years in this part of the world, but this is a first for me. I can't believe that those two would admit how this accident happened," said Deputy Snyder. Upon being notified of the wreck, Lavinia ( Poole 's wife) asked how many frogs the boys had caught and did anyone get them from the truck? Though Poole and Wallis did not die as a result of their misadventure as normally required by Darwin Award Official Rules, it can be argued that Poole did, in fact, effectively remove himself from the gene pool. Every day above ground is a good day! Better to be seen than viewed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5828 (20110128) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From ixia@dcsi.net.au Fri Jan 28 20:27:57 2011 Message-Id: <98FB2D6029E2485DBC4AFCCFA632DAE1@DAWN> From: "Bill Richardson" Subject: Will Ashburner Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:27:57 +1000 I was talking to Will Ashburner not long ago at a garden show. He is the proprietor of "Hancocks Daffodils "(and other bulbs), sells by mail order and at garden shows and events. Like him, I am an original member of the IBS group, started all those years ago by Rob Turley. Ah! doesn't time fly!! regards, Bill Richardson Ixiaking West Gippsland Victoria, Australia Summer 10-30c at present www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce Miller" To: Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 7:14 AM Subject: [pbs] O.T. Waxing nostalgic > This morning's email took me back a few years when International Bulb > Society was extant. We had quite a few Ozzie members who had terrific > senses of humor. I looked forward to one member's post. Will Ashburner > posted the Australian version of the Darwin Awards. Miss those guys. > Here are some US nominees with the ultimate winner. > > > > Best wishes, Joyce Miller, Gresham, OR USDA 8. > > > > > > > > The Darwin Award nominees are: > > Nominee No. 1: [ San Jose Mercury News]: > An unidentified man, using a shotgun like a club to break a former > girlfriend's windshield, accidentally shot himself to death when the gun > discharged, blowing a hole in his gut. > > Nominee No. 2: [ Kalamazoo Gazette]: > James Burns, 34, (a mechanic) of Alamo , MI , was killed in March > as he was trying to repair what police describe as a "farm-type truck." > Burns got a friend to drive the truck on a highway while Burns hung > underneath so that he could ascertain the source of a troubling noise. > Burns' clothes caught on something, however, and the other man found Burns > "wrapped in the drive shaft." > > Nominee No. 3: [ Hickory Daily Record]: > Ken Charles Barger, 47, accidentally shot himself to death in > December in Newton , NC . Awakening to the sound of a ringing telephone > beside his bed, he reached for the phone but grabbed instead a Smith > &Wesson 38 Special, which discharged when he drew it to his ear. > > Nominee No. 4: [UPI, Toronto ]: > Police said a lawyer demonstrating the safety of windows in a > downtown Toronto skyscraper crashed through a pane with his shoulder and > plunged 24 floors to his death.? A police spokesman said Garry Hoy, 39, > fell into the courtyard of the Toronto Dominion Bank Tower early Friday > evening as he was explaining the strength of the building's windows to > visiting law students. Hoy previously has conducted demonstrations of > window strength according to police reports. Peter Lawson, managing > partner of the firm Holden Day Wilson, told the Toronto Sun newspaper that > Hoy was "one of the best and brightest" of their 200-member lawyer > association. > > Nominee No. 5: [The News of the Weird]: > Michael Anderson Godwin made News of the Weird posthumously. He had > spent several years awaiting South Carolina 's electric chair on a murder > conviction before having his sentence reduced to life in prison. While > sitting on a metal toilet in his cell attempting to fix his small TV set, > he bit into a wire and was electrocuted. > > Nominee No. 6: [The Indianapolis Star]: > A cigarette lighter may have triggered a fatal explosion in Dunkirk > , IN. A Jay County man, using a cigarette lighter to check the barrel of a > muzzleloader, was killed Monday night when the weapon discharged in his > face, sheriff's investigators said. Gregory David Pryor, 19, died in his > parents' rural Dunkirk home at about 11:30 PM. Investigators said Pryor > was cleaning a 54-caliber muzzle-loader that had not been firing properly. > He was using the lighter to look into the barrel when the gunpowder > ignited. > > Nominee No. 7: [Reuters, Mississauga , Ontario ]: > A man cleaning a bird feeder on the balcony of his condominium > apartment in this Toronto suburb slipped and fell 23 stories to his death. > "Stefan Macko, 55, was standing on a wheelchair when the accident > occurred," said Inspector Darcy Honer of the Peel Regional Police. "It > appears that the chair moved, and he went over the balcony," Honer said. > > > And, THIS one, you're going to LOVE!! > > > Finally, THE WINNER!!!: [ Arkansas Democrat Gazette]: > Two local men were injured when their pickup truck left the road > and struck a tree near Cotton Patch on State Highway 38 early Monday. > Woodruff County Deputy Dovey Snyder reported the accident shortly after > midnight Monday. Thurston Poole, 33, of Des Arc, and Billy Ray Wallis, 38, > of Little Rock , were returning to Des Arc after a frog-catching trip.. On > an overcast Sunday night, Poole 's pickup truck headlights malfunctioned. > The two men concluded that the headlight fuse on the older-model truck had > burned out. As a replacement fuse was not available, Wallis noticed that > the ..22 caliber bullets from his pistol fitted perfectly into the fuse > box next to the steering-wheel column. Upon inserting the bullet the > headlights again began to operate properly, and the two men proceeded on > eastbound toward the White River Bridge . > > After traveling approximately 20 miles, and just before crossing > the river, the bullet apparently overheated, discharged and struck Poole > in the testicles. The vehicle swerved sharply right, exited the pavement, > and struck a tree. Poole suffered only minor cuts and abrasions from the > accident but will require extensive surgery to repair the damage to his > testicles, which will never again operate as intended. Wallis sustained a > broken clavicle and was treated and released. > > "Thank God we weren't on that bridge when Thurston shot his balls > off, or we might be dead," stated Wallis. > > "I've been a trooper for 10 years in this part of the world, but > this is a first for me. I can't believe that those two would admit how > this accident happened," said Deputy Snyder. > > Upon being notified of the wreck, Lavinia ( Poole 's wife) asked > how many frogs the boys had caught and did anyone get them from the truck? > > Though Poole and Wallis did not die as a result of their > misadventure as normally required by Darwin Award Official Rules, it can > be argued that Poole did, in fact, effectively remove himself from the > gene pool. > > > > Every day above ground is a good day! Better to be seen than > viewed. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5828 (20110128) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From zigur@hotmail.com Fri Jan 28 22:46:58 2011 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: Will Ashburner Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 19:41:53 -0800 "Was extant" ??? The IBS is still up and running, and publishes Herbertia annually. I find it to be an extremely important information source. Many new species are described there, so for those wanting to be on the cutting edge, those protologs are vital. See: http://www.bulbsociety.org/ T > > This morning's email took me back a few years when International Bulb > > Society was extant. We had quite a few Ozzie members who had terrific From idavide@sbcglobal.net Sat Jan 29 14:38:15 2011 Message-Id: <798173.45644.qm@web81001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: O.T. Waxing nostalgic Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 11:38:13 -0800 (PST)    Episode #4 (Lawyer demonstrating strength of windows) or its like was the subject of one episode of the TV Program "1000 Ways to Die".    Another, of perhaps equal interest to gardiners was the case of a fellow who decided to help a recalcitrant log through a wood chipper by bracing himself agains the edge of the machine and pushing the log through with his feet.    By the way, IBS is still extant. David E. From awilson@avonia.com Sun Jan 30 15:11:53 2011 Message-Id: <2C51FABF1D544B0BAE59EDFE9F9D1A18@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: A white cyrtanthus Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 12:12:16 -0800 Here is, what seems to me, a white-flowered (really, it's slightly cream-colored) Cyrtanthus. http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewrmw/Optimized-IMG_5768 . I do not know the identity. Could it be C. mackenii or is it something else? It's been in bloom here (outdoors) for the past two months or so. Thanks Andrew From bulborum@gmail.com Sun Jan 30 16:38:02 2011 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: A white cyrtanthus Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 22:38:01 +0100 Hello Andrew Very nice one . Did you buy it or was it in your garden already when you have a spare seed or two later I would be happy to have it for the collection Roland 2011/1/30 AW : > Here is, what seems to me, a white-flowered (really, it's slightly > cream-colored) Cyrtanthus. -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From awilson@avonia.com Sun Jan 30 17:05:04 2011 Message-Id: <9E8CEA4095904606B1F7882D1E1A98DB@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: A white cyrtanthus Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 14:05:57 -0800 Hi Roland! This bulb has been growing here for many years and it has bloomed reliably each year. I do not recall where it came from, but it might have been UC Irvine. Mary Sue has just replied to that it is similar to her C. mackenii hybrids. I'll be glad to send seed if and when I see it. It has not set seedlings to date, and so may indeed be a hybrid. Andrew Hello Andrew Very nice one . Did you buy it or was it in your garden already when you have a spare seed or two later I would be happy to have it for the collection Roland From msittner@mcn.org Mon Jan 31 10:24:17 2011 Message-Id: <20110131152416.C9FC74C216@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Eastern Cape Trip Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 07:13:37 -0800 Hi, I'm skipping Naude's Nek for the moment where we spent part of two days discovering many wonderful plants as it will take some time to gather all our photos and Cameron's from the past to create a new group of pages for a new place on the wiki. We reluctantly left Naude's Nek but had a new treat in store as we were staying at a wonderful farm with very nice people, Balloch. It was very hot again so one of the delights was to cool off in a pool in the river after we unloaded. That night we had dinner outside in an open cave with a dramatic thunderstorm for entertainment. The next morning a hike up to the top of a mountain was scheduled before breakfast. Not only were the views spectacular, but we were rewarded by seeing several different specimens of one of my most favorite plants of the trip, Disa porrecta. I'm afraid I may have added more photos to the wiki than were needed to show its features. After breakfast we did another mountain hike in the area. Well, some of us did. It was already getting to be quite warm and there weren't so many plants to see so part way up the mountain a few of us found a cave with a lovely view and lingered there out of the sun while the rest of the group climbed to the top. Two plants seen at the beginning of this hike were Dierama robustum and Hypoxis angustifolia. Also spotted was a Gladiolus dalenii, but our pictures of it aren't very good so I didn't add them to the wiki. We were lucky to have experts along to help us with identification of these plants. The Hypoxis flowers mostly looked alike to me, although often the leaves were different, but not always enough for me to tell them apart. And a lot of the Dieramas looked similar as well. Later in the day on our way to the next destination we saw a single representative of Nerine angustifolia, but I didn't add it to the wiki either since there are already nice habitat photos on the wiki from Cameron. We then stopped at a field of Kniphofia linearifolia. The Kniphofias we saw were also the subject of some discussion as keys were reviewed in an attempt to tell them apart. I think this was the final conclusion of what this one was. Regardless of what it was, the field was very beautiful and certainly the habitat description seemed correct. Mary Sue From truls@wildgingerfarm.com Mon Jan 31 14:08:26 2011 Message-Id: <19EB226A-EB6B-43C1-B1AE-1BA2EAC898CE@wildgingerfarm.com> From: Truls at Wild Ginger Farm Subject: Cyrtanthus mackenii Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 11:01:43 -0800 We obtained bulbs identified as Cyrtanthus mackenii that have bloomed in three colors, including orange, yellowish cream and a single individual that is pure white. The white flower can be seen in the lower right photo on our catalog page at http://www.wildgingerfarm.com/store/archives/196 Truls Wild Ginger Farm Beavercreek, OR 97004 www.wildgingerfarm.com info@wildgingerfarm.com On Jan 31, 2011, at 10:25 AM, pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > Today's Topics: > > 1. A white cyrtanthus (AW) > 2. Re: A white cyrtanthus (bulborum botanicum) > 3. Re: A white cyrtanthus (AW) > 4. Re: Eastern Cape Trip (Mary Sue Ittner) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 12:12:16 -0800 > From: "AW" > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Subject: [pbs] A white cyrtanthus > Message-ID: <2C51FABF1D544B0BAE59EDFE9F9D1A18@Desktop> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Here is, what seems to me, a white-flowered (really, it's slightly > cream-colored) Cyrtanthus. > http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewrmw/Optimized-IMG_5768 . I do > not know > the identity. Could it be C. mackenii or is it something else? It's > been in > bloom here (outdoors) for the past two months or so. Thanks > > Andrew > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 22:38:01 +0100 > From: bulborum botanicum > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] A white cyrtanthus > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hello Andrew > > Very nice one . Did you buy it or was it in your garden already > when you have a spare seed or two later > I would be happy to have it for the collection > > Roland > > > 2011/1/30 AW : >> Here is, what seems to me, a white-flowered (really, it's slightly >> cream-colored) Cyrtanthus. > > > > -- > R de Boer > La Maugardiere 1 > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Tel./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email:?? bulborum@gmail.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 14:05:57 -0800 > From: "AW" > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" > Subject: Re: [pbs] A white cyrtanthus > Message-ID: <9E8CEA4095904606B1F7882D1E1A98DB@Desktop> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Roland! > > This bulb has been growing here for many years and it has bloomed > reliably > each year. I do not recall where it came from, but it might have > been UC > Irvine. Mary Sue has just replied to that it is similar to her C. > mackenii > hybrids. I'll be glad to send seed if and when I see it. It has not > set > seedlings to date, and so may indeed be a hybrid. > > Andrew > > > Hello Andrew > > Very nice one . Did you buy it or was it in your garden already when > you > have a spare seed or two later I would be happy to have it for the > collection > > Roland > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 07:13:37 -0800 > From: Mary Sue Ittner > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Eastern Cape Trip > Message-ID: <20110131152416.C9FC74C216@lists.ibiblio.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Hi, > > I'm skipping Naude's Nek for the moment where we spent part of two > days discovering many wonderful plants as it will take some time to > gather all our photos and Cameron's from the past to create a new > group of pages for a new place on the wiki. We reluctantly left > Naude's Nek but had a new treat in store as we were staying at a > wonderful farm with very nice people, Balloch. It was very hot again > so one of the delights was to cool off in a pool in the river after > we unloaded. That night we had dinner outside in an open cave with a > dramatic thunderstorm for entertainment. The next morning a hike up > to the top of a mountain was scheduled before breakfast. Not only > were the views spectacular, but we were rewarded by seeing several > different specimens of one of my most favorite plants of the trip, > Disa porrecta. I'm afraid I may have added more photos to the wiki > than were needed to show its features. > > > After breakfast we did another mountain hike in the area. Well, some > of us did. It was already getting to be quite warm and there weren't > so many plants to see so part way up the mountain a few of us found a > cave with a lovely view and lingered there out of the sun while the > rest of the group climbed to the top. Two plants seen at the > beginning of this hike were Dierama robustum and Hypoxis > angustifolia. Also spotted was a Gladiolus dalenii, but our pictures > of it aren't very good so I didn't add them to the wiki. > > > > > We were lucky to have experts along to help us with identification of > these plants. The Hypoxis flowers mostly looked alike to me, although > often the leaves were different, but not always enough for me to tell > them apart. And a lot of the Dieramas looked similar as well. > > Later in the day on our way to the next destination we saw a single > representative of Nerine angustifolia, but I didn't add it to the > wiki either since there are already nice habitat photos on the wiki > from Cameron. We then stopped at a field of Kniphofia linearifolia. > The Kniphofias we saw were also the subject of some discussion as > keys were reviewed in an attempt to tell them apart. I think this was > the final conclusion of what this one was. Regardless of what it was, > the field was very beautiful and certainly the habitat description > seemed correct. > > > > Mary Sue > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 96, Issue 39 > *********************************** From awilson@avonia.com Mon Jan 31 20:20:11 2011 Message-Id: <5A1148C86FBB48EF9518FDDBE1EF4630@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: Cyrtanthus mackenii Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:20:46 -0800 It is indeed interesting how variable are the ways people grow their bulbs! I looked at the Wild Ginger website and saw the instructions about how to grow C. mackenii : " Grow in partial sun in moist, well-drained soil. Keep drier in winter and protect from cold. " I grow this plant in shallow, very fast draining soil. In summer, it gets direct sun almost all day and in winter it is partially shaded. And this is southern California, not Oregon! Finally, this is the season it demands extra water here! Flowers were drooping after our long dry spell. I have treated this plant as a very drought tolerant one and it does not seem to complain. So, it appears to be one tolerant of a rather wide range of conditions. Andrew San Diego We obtained bulbs identified as Cyrtanthus mackenii that have bloomed in three colors, including orange, yellowish cream and a single individual that is pure white. The white flower can be seen in the lower right photo on our catalog page at http://www.wildgingerfarm.com/store/archives/196 Truls Wild Ginger Farm Beavercreek, OR 97004 From antennaria@charter.net Mon Jan 31 23:15:24 2011 Message-Id: <1771191554.7966800.1296532289599.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> From: Mark McDonough Subject: brief announcement Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 22:51:29 -0500 (EST) Announcement: ========== NARGS Forum Open Registration (free) started today, Monday, January 31, 2011 NARGS Forum participation is now available to any registrant whose request is validated and approved by the NARGS Forum Team. Those interested in joining can go to http://nargs.org/smf and click on the Register button. Approval may require up to 24-hours (probably much faster, but depends on the number of requests). Cheers, Mark McDonough antennaria@charter.net Massachusetts, USA, USDA Zone 5 Alpine-L List-Owner NARGS Forum Lead Moderator and co-Administrator 12 F currently, 18-24" of snow is predicted starting tomorrow