I have not exactly been following the discussion here, but this is a very interesting topic for me, since I spent many years studying fish (Cichlid) behavior, and am very aware of invasive species, and the same goes for plants. I agree with Dave that most species are introduced not by the small guys, us, but rather those in management or governmental positions. Quite often a species is introduced to try and control another species, and as a result, you have two, not just one, invasive. More often yet, species are introduced purposefully as a source of food. Heck, cows, pigs, etc, can be counted as invasives also as well as our beloved Dandelions. We could talk about this all day and all year, and never get tired of it - so I'll pause here. Just wanted to say that I agree that most of them are a result of deliberate action, not the "escaped pet syndrome." And who suffers for it? We do - For instance, I am very sore over the fact there are some wonderful fish species that can no longer be kept in the US because of this. Jude -----Original Message----- From: dave s <wusong@evilemail.com> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Sent: Mon, Jan 10, 2011 9:26 am Subject: Re: [pbs] OT - Invasive Snakes This subject (in the broad sense - not specifically pythons) is always a sore one for me. You mention Asian carp and kudzu - what they have in common, and what most of our "invasives" have in common is that their introductions have very little to do with private individuals. They're mostly the result of local, state and federal efforts to introduce them deliberately, whether for agriculture, sport fishing, or "wildlife management" (those quotes aren't snarky, they're there because it is a very broad heading). A few of the worst are an unfortunate side effect of international trade, the exact thing that a government agency COULD have done something about (I'm looking at you, *Boiga*, *Neogobius*, and * Dreissena*). The private pet owner/gardener is the easy target, but precious few invasives species, globally, jumped from the store shelf to become a rampant problem. Despite widespread stupidity, most (many? :D ) pet owners are at least *fairly* responsible, and don't go releasing unwanted snakes. And even if they do, a snake/lizard/bird here and there is statistically unlikely to cause an epidemic. In other words, this type of legislation is usually a textbook example of bull____, as defined by H.G. Frankfurt: A willful disregard for the truth in an effort to deceive others as to how one feels about a given subject. Politics as usual. It's lazy, unsupported by the facts, and ultimately not likely to help much. And, given the way laws build on what has gone before, likely to progressively encroach on our activities. -Dave _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/