From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu, 31 May 2012 21:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Alstroemeria question Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 23:03:58 -0500 >Would it be possible to grow Alstroemeria in Southern Illinois? Dear Mary Sue and all, Yes, but... If you check out Alstroemeria at Plant Delights Nursery for example you'll see a number of hardy cv that are listed as Zone 5b which should include Southern Ill. I grew A. psitticina here (Kansas City, MO) for years until a cold winter got it. Milder recent winter would probably allow even more sp and cv to grow. Depending on the specific microclimate the person making the request might have quite a choice of cvs to grow. I noticed this spring that local garden centers are offing maybe half dozen cvs locally. Good luck and choose the planting location wisely. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From elainejek@yahoo.com Thu, 31 May 2012 22:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <1338525121.79028.YahooMailNeo@web112009.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> From: Elaine Jek Subject: Roy Sachs - a longtime member of PBS passed away this week. Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 21:32:01 -0700 (PDT) Thank you Mary Sue, And what a great idea of Roy's that you shared with us: to give away bulbs as presents!    All the best, -Elaine. ________________________________ From: Mary Sue Ittner To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Roy Sachs - a longtime member of PBS passed away this week. I too feel very sad to learn that Roy has died. He joined us at some of our Northern California meetings and we always enjoyed his company. When I was still a member of IBS, I worked with Roy editing a number of his articles for BULBS and that was a very pleasant experience. He was always curious about the hows and whys of how things grow. I talked him into introducing a topic of the week for us on dormancy of seed and bulbs and it seems a fitting tribute to Roy to give the link for these introductions to all of you who were not participating in our list at that time and as something to reread for those of us who knew him. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/2004-January/h9faepqjul49u7e6ef7angu9e2.html http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/2004-January/098lnbthc53hnfug6nhvdmrp16.html And I found an obituary online. http://www.davisenterprise.com/obits/roy-sachs/ He loved Alstroemeria and found ways to grow it well. On one of our visits he gave me some Tulipa 'Angelique' that was surplus from a wedding of his daughter where he had given some away. It still blooms every year (prechilled for 4-6 weeks in Northern California) and I'm happy to have it as I am reminded of him. Mary Sue From jshields@indy.net Fri, 01 Jun 2012 06:17:26 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20120601091123.03505208@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Alstroemeria question Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2012 09:14:30 -0400 Here in central Indiana, I grew Alstroemeria psittacina and a couple of "hardy" cvs. outdoors for a few years. They survived, for a while, but never bloomed. After a few years, all just disappeared. Jim Shields At 11:03 PM 5/31/2012 -0500, you wrote: > >Would it be possible to grow Alstroemeria in Southern Illinois? > >Dear Mary Sue and all, > Yes, but... > Good luck and choose the planting location wisely. > Jim W. ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From kjblack@pacbell.net Fri, 01 Jun 2012 07:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1338559146.83671.YahooMailRC@web181017.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: Whats blooming now ... need ID, possible Drimia sp - actually an Ornithagolum sp Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 06:59:06 -0700 (PDT) Thank you Dietrich, Dylan and all who responded ...  the consensus seems to be Ornithagolum. It is still blooming and looking good.  Interestingly, the flowers only open on sunny days ... even though the plant itself is kept shaded.  The foliage has declined and now all but disappeared.  Here is a link to a shot of the open florets: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/7314278836/in/photostream Ken San Diego, California USDA zone 10  ________________________________ From: Dietrich Müller-Doblies d.mueller-doblies@gmx.de certainly you are right, it is an interesting Ornithogalum sp. of the O. graminifolium group. ... Cheers Dietrich ... Am 19.05.2012 21:58, schrieb Hannon: ... > I believe this is an Ornithogalum (the "Drimia" designation is erroneous) > that originally came from UC Irvine Arboretum without data or locality. It > is a very dependable little clustering plant for shade and unusual among > hyacinths for its softly pubescent leaves. The flowers will open more fully > and are star-like. > Maybe the Mueller-Doblies can provide a name? > Dylan ... > On 19 May 2012 11:44, Ken  wrote: > >> >> I purchased a bulb with interesting hairy, light green foliage a little >> over a year ago.  It went dormant last Summer and produced a new flush of >>foliage >> again last fall, which now seems to be declining while the plant is in >> full-bloom.  It was labelled 'Drimia species' ... >> Can any of you experts out there help me out? >> >> Bloom spikes: >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/7228462414/in/photostream >> >> Bloom close-up: >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/7228464110/in/photostream >> >> Foliage: >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/7228465432/in/photostream >> ... From hornig@oswego.edu Fri, 01 Jun 2012 07:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Ellen Hornig Subject: Alstroemeria question Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 10:08:43 -0400 Alstroemeria aurea/auriantica was hardy (to a fault) in Ithaca and Oswego, NY (zone 5b, excellent snowcover in Oswego). The orange or red-orange forms are great fun against a white house, but it runs, self-sows, and goes dormant most gracelessly later in the season. Not recommended for small spaces. Ellen -- Ellen Hornig 212 Grafton St Shrewsbury MA 01545 508-925-5147 From kjblack@pacbell.net Fri, 01 Jun 2012 07:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1338559868.62421.YahooMailRC@web181006.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: Whats blooming now ... need ID, possible Drimia sp - actually an Ornithogalum sp Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 07:11:08 -0700 (PDT) My apologies re the misspelling of Ornithogalum ... have not had my coffee yet this morning. Ken ... Subject: Re: [pbs] Whats blooming now ... need ID, possible Drimia sp - actually an Ornithagolum sp Thank you Dietrich, Dylan and all who responded ...  the consensus seems to be Ornithagolum. It is still blooming and looking good.  Interestingly, the flowers only open on sunny days ... even though the plant itself is kept shaded.  The foliage has declined and now all but disappeared.  Here is a link to a shot of the open florets: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/7314278836/in/photostream Ken San Diego, California USDA zone 10  From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Fri, 01 Jun 2012 08:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <410-2201265114391992@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: Alstroemeria question Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 10:39:01 -0400 > > Alstroemeria aurea/auriantica was hardy (to a fault) in Ithaca Ellen, Did you also grow the Bridgen hybrids out of Cornell? Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 8a From jmsjon664@aol.com Fri, 01 Jun 2012 08:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF0E1BB67B534A-1BB8-7287@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> From: "James L. Jones" Subject: Alstroemeria question Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 10:41:07 -0400 (EDT) I have Alstroemeria, probably ligtu, raised from seed 16 years and, to echo Ellen Hornig, it succeeds to a fault, but only tight against the south-facing foundation. It blooms dependably and spectacularly. Recently I've taken to yanking out the stems in later summer, thereby slowing it down, avoiding yellowing foliage, and revealing the interplanted colchicum. It's not that bad a job. Jim Jones Lexington, MA -----Original Message----- From: Mary Sue Ittner To: pbs Sent: Thu, May 31, 2012 10:38 pm Subject: [pbs] Alstroemeria question I got a question about growing Alstroemeria to the PBS website a couple of days ago. I sent it on to Roy Sachs hoping he could help answer it not knowing he had died. So here it is. >The alstroemeria is one of my favorite cut flowers and wish to grow >them in a new perennial bed. When is the best time to plant the >bulbs? Which varieties would be best for Southern Illinois growing >seasons? Which varieties would be growth in full sun? Thank you Would it be possible to grow Alstroemeria in Southern Illinois? Mary Sue From hornig@oswego.edu Fri, 01 Jun 2012 08:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Ellen Hornig Subject: Alstroemeria question Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 11:14:52 -0400 No, I never have. I used to grow A. presliana ssp australis in Oswego, and that was exquisite, but over time it petered out. I will confess to being a species person...too much success makes me nervous. :-) Ellen On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 10:39 AM, MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER < markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net> wrote: > > > > Alstroemeria aurea/auriantica was hardy (to a fault) in Ithaca > > Ellen, > > Did you also grow the Bridgen hybrids out of Cornell? > > Mark Mazer > Hertford, North Carolina USA > Zone 8a > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Ellen Hornig 212 Grafton St Shrewsbury MA 01545 508-925-5147 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri, 01 Jun 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Alstroemeria question Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2012 10:09:39 -0700 Mary Sue forwarded this question to the website: > >The alstroemeria is one of my favorite cut flowers and wish to grow > >them in a new perennial bed. When is the best time to plant the > >bulbs? Which varieties would be best for Southern Illinois growing The alstros grown for cut flowers are hybrids that are selected for stiff stems and rather tubular flowers that can be packed closely for shipping. I think most if not all of these are too tender for outdoor cultivation in Illinois. They are generally grown in greenhouses. Alstroemeria do not grow from bulbs. They have crowns with growing points and tuberous storage roots, rather like a Dahlia but not as compact. Some of them (e.g., A. ligtu) can produce new growth from detached storage roots, while others will produce growth only from a crown. They are pretty easy to grow from seed, flowering in the third or fourth year. The best time to plant them is in fall when the crowns are dormant. Alstroemeria pulchella (syn. A. psittacina) is one of the hardier species and is also tolerant of summer water, but it is not as showy as the cutflower kinds. A. aurea is notably hardy and grows in the mid elevations of the southern Andes, but it can be quite invasive where suited, as can A. ligtu. It comes in orange and yellow. At my former garden where winter lows often reached the mid teens F, I grew the very showy F. ligtu subsp. incarnata and the scarlet F. ligtu subsp. simsii outdoors in a high berm of sand and gravel, not watered in summer (it does not rain here in summer). Another species that is succeeding outdoors in similar conditions is A. angustifolia, which is not so showy but suitable for cutting. The alstros most likely to be found in garden centers are the Princess Strain, a series of low-growing hybrids. The different colors seem to vary in winter hardiness but I would not trust any of them below about 25 F. Their foliage and the markings on their flowers suggest that they are derived in part from the strictly coastal A. pelegrina, which is also short and compact rather than lax and trailing like most other western South American species. If purchased in flower, they should be grown on in their original pots until they start to wither, then allowed to go dry, and planted in fall while dormant. Even A. pelegrina, which grows within the ocean spray zone (if not indeed high-tide line) on rocky beaches, is dormant part of the year. I think another species used in these hybrids (especially the purple ones) is A. philippii. also coastal. So the short answer to your question is that a "perennial bed" in southern Illinois is probably not the place for anything but A. aurea (sometimes sold under its former name A. aurantiaca) or maybe A. pulchella. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri, 01 Jun 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Alstroemeria aurea Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 12:50:24 -0500 Dear Jane, Ellen etc.... The first 50 Google hits had NO plants for sale of this weedy easy to grow species. Why is this? I could moan about the demise of Seneca Hill (which I am doing quietly), or complain about the general pitiful poor state of nursery offerings. If this is so easy and weedy why don't our members donate their weeds? So easy and you can't get it. Give me a break. semi-disgusted Jim -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From santoury@aol.com Fri, 01 Jun 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF0E37870857F6-1A14-8982@webmail-d053.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Spreading Weeds Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 14:00:13 -0400 (EDT) I agree, Jim - Many plants are weedy to some people, and for this reason, they are not shared - although a lot of us would love to have some. Not just Alstro's, but others, too! Here's a neat example: A customer of mine was thankful that I was able to provide him with Norway Maples, a very weedy tree here, because he lives in a place they are not found. It might be a neat idea for us to start a list compilation of what we have, that are weeds, and basically keep a database so that people can request our weeds, without inundating Dell with weeds! From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Fri, 01 Jun 2012 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1338575135.17982.YahooMailClassic@web160306.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: Alstroemeria aurea Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 11:25:35 -0700 (PDT) Jim,  I grew the pressliana Ellen offered, aurea, pulchella, and psitacina and all were very short lived perennials in Kansas, even shorter here. The heat did them in. I found them to attempt to go dormant in the summer put up fall growth, die back over the winter and put up a pathetic spring display. The last was the only one that persisted more than 2 years.  Aaron  E Tennessee --- On Sat, 6/2/12, James Waddick wrote: From: James Waddick Dear Jane, Ellen etc....     The first 50 Google hits had NO plants for sale of this weedy easy to grow species. Why is this?     I could moan about the demise of Seneca Hill (which I am doing quietly), or complain about the general pitiful poor state of nursery offerings. From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Fri, 01 Jun 2012 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1338576203.39965.YahooMailNeo@web87403.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Alstroemeria aurea Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 19:43:23 +0100 (BST)     The first 50 Google hits had NO plants for sale of this weedy >easy to grow species. Why is this? > > >The RHS Plant Finder has only 3 suppliers, and 1 of them is in France >My wife likes sitting in the garden in summer and listening to the pods exploding as it seeds itself around. It is several yards away from where it originally grew. > >Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8'ish From hornig@oswego.edu Fri, 01 Jun 2012 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Ellen Hornig Subject: Alstroemeria aurea Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 14:52:34 -0400 Supply and demand... A. aurea is a mess to grow in pots. The tall stems fall over and break off (the attachment to the rhizome is quite fragile). They get much too tall to ship. In a garden center you'd need to stake every one. In short, there are a million other things one could grow and sell that would be less trouble. Chile Flora used to sell seeds of this species. Their "reds": were just orange and red-orange, but they grew. It's definitely easy from seed. For the record, I miss Seneca Hill Perennials too. :-) It was a great ride while it lasted. Ellen On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 1:50 PM, James Waddick wrote: > Dear Jane, Ellen etc.... > > The first 50 Google hits had NO plants for sale of this weedy > easy to grow species. Why is this? > > I could moan about the demise of Seneca Hill (which I am > doing quietly), or complain about the general pitiful poor state of > nursery offerings. > > If this is so easy and weedy why don't our members donate their > weeds? > > So easy and you can't get it. Give me a break. > semi-disgusted Jim > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Ellen Hornig 212 Grafton St Shrewsbury MA 01545 508-925-5147 From dhkerrmail@yahoo.com Fri, 01 Jun 2012 14:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <1338581795.7453.YahooMailClassic@web160701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Daniel Kerr Subject: Off-topic posting: astonishing response of Notholirion thomsonianum.... Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 13:16:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Jane McGary  Subject: Re: [pbs] Rhodophiala: A Nederland Challege! You wrote off-topic: on the astonishing response of Notholirion thomsonianum. Any chance that you took a picture of your plant?   ************************************ From silkie@frontiernet.net Fri, 01 Jun 2012 15:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <02b501cd4043$8d538560$a7fa9020$@frontiernet.net> From: "david silkwood" Subject: Spreading Weeds Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 15:11:53 -0700 We have a Norway Maple and it has not spread at all. I don't know how old it is, but it is at least 35. Our climate is so harsh that sometimes I like plants that are termed "invasive" thinking it might mean they will actually grow here. It took years before my mint decided to spread and it still is not terribly invasive. Colleen NE Calif. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of The Silent Seed Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 11:00 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Spreading Weeds I agree, Jim - Many plants are weedy to some people, and for this reason, they are not shared - although a lot of us would love to have some. Not just Alstro's, but others, too! Here's a neat example: A customer of mine was thankful that I was able to provide him with Norway Maples, a very weedy tree here, because he lives in a place they are not found. It might be a neat idea for us to start a list compilation of what we have, that are weeds, and basically keep a database so that people can request our weeds, without inundating Dell with weeds! From santoury@aol.com Fri, 01 Jun 2012 17:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF0E65EB9541A3-1A14-A474@webmail-d053.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Spreading Weeds Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 19:32:19 -0400 (EDT) Very nice! They are indeed beautiful trees. How does it look under the hot California sun ? From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri, 01 Jun 2012 20:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Off-topic posting: astonishing response of Notholirion thomsonianum.... Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2012 19:30:25 -0700 Daniel asked, >You wrote off-topic: >on the astonishing response of Notholirion thomsonianum. >Any chance that you took a picture of your plant? Yes, I did, but I just haven't found the time to prepare the photos and post them on the wiki. If Daniel would like me to e-mail the photo to him privately, I can do that. Jane McGary From randysgarden@gmail.com Fri, 01 Jun 2012 20:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Randall P. Linke" Subject: Alstroemeria aurea Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 19:55:49 -0700 On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 10:50 AM, James Waddick wrote: > Dear Jane, Ellen etc...or complain about the general pitiful poor state of > nursery offerings. > Sadly the nursery trade is in decline, and only groups like ours and small specialty growers offer any hope of preserving the great diversity, and availability, of a great number of plants. Many wonderful cultivars have disappeared over time due to changing tastes and the newest fad. Those true plant people among us who have worked in the trade lament this as much as any frustrated real gardener/collector who can not find a 'prized' species or cultivar that was once common. The reasons why this has happened is well beyond the purpose of this forum, but we all equally lament it. Randy Monterey Bay Region, California Zone 9 From donjournet@netspace.net.au Fri, 01 Jun 2012 22:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FC992CB.8050804@netspace.net.au> From: Donald Journet Subject: Spreading Weeds Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2012 14:12:59 +1000 I think this is a very difficult subject as all plants are weeds. A definition of what is a weed is very necessary but extremely difficult in reality. The one that says a weed is a plant out of place is really the only realistic one without getting very technical. Some use the term where a plant has a commercial consequence and causes loss of production in some area or for example contaminates wool from sheep. I am not sure that there is any plant that is not a weed. Is there a universal definition that could be adopted? I have my doubts. Regards Don Journet South Eastern Australia From michaelcmace@gmail.com Fri, 01 Jun 2012 22:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <00e701cd407a$1304c580$390e5080$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Alstroemeria aurea sources Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 21:42:10 -0700 Jane's right, this one is more often sold under the old name, A. aurantiaca. Here are some US Alstroemeria sources: http://www.amazon.com/PERUVIAN-LILY-ALSTROEMERIA-AURANTIACA-seeds/dp/B0049GS TCW http://www.anniesannuals.com/plt_lst/lists/general/lst.gen.asp?prodid=1616 http://www.swallowtailgardenseeds.com/perennials/alstroemeria.html http://yhst-27104608415819.stores.yahoo.net/alstroemeria-peruviana-dwarf-fuc hsia.html http://www.sunnygardens.com/garden_plants/alstroemeria/alstroemeria_1728.php http://www.desert-tropicals.com/Plants/Alstroemeriaceae/Alstroemeria_auranti aca.html http://www.buy-alstroemeria.com/aureas.php Mike San Jose, CA From Jtlehmann@aol.com Fri, 01 Jun 2012 22:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <6c6c8.76faf878.3cfaf9a4@aol.com> From: Jtlehmann@aol.com Subject: Rock & Roll Alstroemeria Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 01:07:48 -0400 (EDT) How well do the Rock & Roll Alstoemeria perform in the long run? They are available at any box store around here being sold as perennials. While the colors & variegation aren't "for me," they do look great when they show up at the stores but look less than stellar within a week. I assumed that was due to the lack of care, but now I'm thinking it is the heat. --Jerry Lehmann, Olathe, KS, USA From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri, 01 Jun 2012 23:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <4FC9ADF2.6010409@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Rock & Roll Alstroemeria Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2012 18:08:50 +1200 I grow several dwarf ones (not the variegated one as it became a weed in my garden as did the aurea one) which thrive over autumn (fall), not bad over winter, and thriving again in spring. Over summer there is a bit of a show. Mine are in full sun. This year bought a very dark one which is called Inticancha Temple of the Sun- dark purple. I tried to keep it in the pot but it got smaller and smaller, so put it in the garden, not in a full sun place, and it is going mad. Of course this is a warm climate. I guess if I put mine more in a shady position, they would be happier over summer too. My guess is that it would not be the heat so much as that they do not do well in pots. Their roots would have to be cool, at least that is my impression. Ina On 2/06/2012 5:07 p.m., Jtlehmann@aol.com wrote: > How well do the Rock& Roll Alstoemeria perform in the long run? They are > available at any box store around here being sold as perennials. While > the colors& variegation aren't "for me," they do look great when they show > up at the stores but look less than stellar within a week. I assumed that > was due to the lack of care, but now I'm thinking it is the heat. > > --Jerry Lehmann, Olathe, KS, USA From opbungalow@gmail.com Sat, 02 Jun 2012 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: David Maxwell Subject: Rhodophiala splendens: The Sweet Poetic Justice! Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 10:09:05 -0700 Well, after a 4 year wait, I was expecting a red R.spenden to finally bloom…but yesterday what bloomed instead was a pink R.advena…or possibly a pink R.bifida...I don't know for sure. Over the course of their repottings & many migrations around the yard, I accidentally switched the potting labels in two (or more) of the pots. Fortuntely a bulb in another pot was also sending up its first scape…so I was hoping the confusion would be quickly resolved when it bloomed. Wouldn’t you know Sacramento had its first scorcher (F98) of the year yesterday…if felt like someone had turned up the sun…and having left all the pots of various Rhodophiala bulbs in full sun, the tender neck of the scape scorched & withered! So the mislabeling mystery…and my delayed gratification…will go one for yet another year! Oh, the sweet poetic justice...and so many lessons yet to be learned! ~david From slsykora@sbcglobal.net Sat, 02 Jun 2012 11:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1F3BB087-D786-4368-857A-5E44E8DDA44A@sbcglobal.net> From: Sylvia Sykora Subject: FREESIAS? Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 11:01:15 -0700 The comments about loss of specialty nurseries reminds me that it's becoming nearly impossible to find single color, let alone, named, cultivars of freesias. I used to be able to buy a wonderful variety from a small nursery in Pittsfield, MA. Now, not even McClure and Zimmerman carries anything but mixed offerings. Does anyone have a source for single color freesias? The gophers devastated my former beautiful collection that grew and throve without any help from me. Thank you. Sylvia Sykora Oakland, CA From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Sat, 02 Jun 2012 11:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <410-2201266218958781@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: FREESIAS? Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 14:09:58 -0400 > > The comments about loss of specialty nurseries reminds me that it's becoming nearly impossible to find single color, let alone, named, cultivars of freesias. Scheepers/Van Engelen has them in the new catalogues. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 8a Brodiaea elegans in bloom today From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat, 02 Jun 2012 13:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Rock & Roll Alstroemeria Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2012 11:17:04 -0700 Ina is right, alstroemerias don't do well in pots once they have any size on them. Part of it is that they don't have a lot of "feeder" roots and that the root system is evolved to range very widely in the poor, open soils where they have evolved (at least, the western South American species; I don't know if the Brazilian species are more compact but suspect they are). In addition, their root systems go quite deep and thus remain cool even in the hot, dry climates where some of them grow. I collected seed of A. umbellata in a canyon in the foothills southeast of Santiago and investigated how it was growing. The stems with their beautiful succulent foliage were spreading around in rough volcanic talus on a very steep slope, but 30-40 cm below the talus layer was a layer of sand, or ash, in which the roots were growing, and this soil was both cool and moist. A. aurea, however, is more adaptable and frequents both open, rocky sites and Nothofagus woodland. In south central Chile I have seen it rising up out of blackberry (bramble) thickets. I brought some from my old garden and planted it in a moderately well drained site in heavily amended clay, and it's starting to flower there -- even though my plants are derived from the well-known population at Chile's Termas de Chillan, where there is a lot of color variation and the alstros grow on a rocky slope in full sun. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From jshields@indy.net Sat, 02 Jun 2012 12:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20120602145756.033f9698@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Rhodophiala splendens: The Sweet Poetic Justice! Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2012 14:59:13 -0400 ...and I thought Indiana was a pain! Jim Shields At 10:09 AM 6/2/2012 -0700, you wrote: >Well, after a 4 year wait,....... > >So the mislabeling mystery…and my delayed gratification…will go one >for yet another year! > >Oh, the sweet poetic justice...and so many lessons yet to be learned! > >~david >_______________________________________________ ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat, 02 Jun 2012 13:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: FREESIAS? Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2012 12:27:19 -0700 Sylvia asked, >The comments about loss of specialty nurseries reminds me that it's >becoming nearly impossible to find single color, let alone, named, >cultivars of freesias. I used to be able to buy a wonderful variety >from a small nursery in Pittsfield, MA. Now, not even McClure and >Zimmerman carries anything but mixed offerings. Does anyone have a >source for single color freesias? The gophers devastated my former >beautiful collection that grew and throve without any help from me. John Scheepers offers both single and double freesias in separate named cultivar colors, but the minimum order is 50 bulbs for $34.50. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From santoury@aol.com Sat, 02 Jun 2012 16:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF0F28E16724E6-1630-EE01@Webmail-m111.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: FREESIAS? Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 18:47:53 -0400 (EDT) Wow, Pittsfield, MA - where I was born. From jshields@indy.net Sat, 02 Jun 2012 18:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20120602200445.03407148@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: What was in bloom Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2012 20:16:20 -0400 I'm trying to catch up on my spring blooms, and finally got some pictures posted in my blog. My first bloom on Ammocharis nerinoides happened about two weeks ago. More bloom on Sprekelia howardii at the same time that Sprekelia 'High Priest' was in bloom. I tried a cross-pollination. There might be seeds. Hymenocallis liriosme, my sole "hardy" accession of liriosme, bloomed two weeks ago outside greenhouse #2. These are shown in the current entry of the blog at: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Blogs/Garden/index.html and at its permanent URL of: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Blogs/Garden/201206.html#e1 if anyone cares to see them. More later. Current bloom: Some hardy Brodiaea are in bloom outdoors in the ground right now, as weeding revealed their presence. The dwarf Crinum walteri (in the trade incorrectly as "Crinum minimum") is in bud. Haemanthus humilis hirsutus has one scape up. Crinum bulbispermum are blooming outdoors in the ground like crazy; I really should plant a lot more of these. Other than that, it seems awfully quiet around here. Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From clayton3120@cablespeed.com Sat, 02 Jun 2012 19:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: clayton3120 clayton3120 Subject: FREESIAS? Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 18:33:55 -0700 Sylvia, I believe Ednie Bulb Company or Gloeckner Horticultural Supply could help you. However, these are suppliers to the trade, and you would have to order in bulk quantities. Perhaps you could band together with other members, or sell the rest on ebay if you didn't want , say, 100 of each color. Their offerings are tremendous, the green flowered Ranunculus is quite a showstopper. Rick K On 6/2/12, The Silent Seed wrote: > > Wow, Pittsfield, MA - where I was born. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 09:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: FREESIAS? -their corms Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 16:38:24 +0100 Surely you mean that the minimum order is 50 corms for $34.50 I have never yet, to my knowlege, seen a Freesia "bulb". -no wonder people get confused..... I read on wikipedia that Musa have corms, -stated with confidence. Perhaps it is true? but I found the fact surprising. At work, as a gardener, I have to be extremely careful to ensure I understand correctly what my clients want when they refer to "Geraniums", "Automn Crocus", "Greater Celandine" and so on. Peter (UK) On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Jane McGary wrote: John Scheepers offers both single and doublefreesias in separate named cultivar colors, but the minimum order is > > 50 bulbs for $34.50. > From santoury@aol.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 09:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF0FB7BF96CFDF-1630-109F3@Webmail-m111.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: FREESIAS? -their corms Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 11:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Box stores often have these Freesias - right about now. Hope that helps! A bag of 25 or so is about $6. From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 09:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: FREESIAS? -their corms Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 17:09:05 +0100 Jude, you miss the reason for my email completely; that Freesias have corms and that referring to them as bulbs perpetuates confusion. You also misunderstand that the original conversation was on the availability of NAMED CULTIVARS, or do the "Box stores" stock named Freesia cultivars? Peter (UK) On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 4:50 PM, The Silent Seed wrote: > > > Box stores often have these Freesias - right about now. Hope that helps! A > bag of 25 or so is about $6. > From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 10:17:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Rhodophiala splendens: The Sweet Poetic Justice! Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 17:19:57 +0100 My sympathy, so many similar stories here too, though fewer since I started to relable as well as repot, and bury an extra lable deeper down. Peter (UK) On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 6:09 PM, David Maxwell wrote: > Well, after a 4 year wait, I was expecting a red R.spenden to finally > bloom…but yesterday what bloomed instead was a pink R.advena…or > possibly a pink R.bifida...I don't know for sure. > ..... > > So the mislabeling mystery…and my delayed gratification…will go one > for yet another year! > From tim@gingerwoodnursery.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 11:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tim Chapman Subject: FREESIAS? -their corms Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 12:23:22 -0500 On Jun 3, 2012, at 10:38 AM, Peter Taggart wrote: > Surely you mean that the minimum order is 50 corms for $34.50 > I have never yet, to my knowlege, seen a Freesia "bulb". > -no wonder people get confused..... I read on wikipedia that Musa have > corms, -stated with confidence. Perhaps it is true? but I found the fact > surprising. > The quote was for "bulbs" because that is how the catalog source listed it. Most of the larger resellers do not cater to the gardeners that know the difference between a bulb and a corm. These people would be confused with the different distinctions, especially when a genus may contain species with bulbs and others with rhizomes, etc. On a side most Musaceae spp have corms with the exception of a few Musa such as M laterita and the relatively new M siamensis, these have rhizomes. Tim Chapman From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 11:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: FREESIAS? -their corms Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 18:49:13 +0100 Thank you Tim, however I do believe very many gardeners are aware that there are distinctions, though unsure of what they are, and become much more confused because apparently knowledgeable people confuse the terms. I see this problem regularly with clients whom I garden for. Thank you too for the Information on Musa, I shall look for an opportunity to cut a plant or two open. the species I have handled did not look cormous on a superficial level. Peter (UK) On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 6:23 PM, Tim Chapman wrote: > > The quote was for "bulbs" because that is how the catalog source listed > it. Most of the larger resellers do not cater to the gardeners that know > the difference between a bulb and a corm. These people would be confused > with the different distinctions, especially when a genus may contain > species with bulbs and others with rhizomes, etc. > > On a side most Musaceae spp have corms with the exception of a few Musa > such as M laterita and the relatively new M siamensis, these have rhizomes. > > From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun, 03 Jun 2012 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: FREESIAS? -their corms Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2012 11:21:18 -0700 Peter wrote, >Surely you mean that the minimum order is 50 corms for $34.50 >I have never yet, to my knowlege, seen a Freesia "bulb". >-no wonder people get confused..... Well, yes, I do know the difference between a bulb and a corm, having repotted tens of thousands of them over the years, but I am human and was looking at the price list and writing an e-mail. And after all, we decided to call ourselves the Pacific Bulb Society when we could have chosen the Pacific and All Other Geographical Areas Bulb, Corm, Tuber, and Large Rhizome Society. I do draw my own line at banana plants, but my "bulb" collection hosts such outliers as deciduous Lewisia species and geophytic Delphinium. I do correct people about "autumn crocus," misused here as in the homeland of our mutual and variable language, but if they say it has a bulb, I don't object unless I'm wearing my professional hat as an editor. Best regards, Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From santoury@aol.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF0FCD51BAC143-1630-11233@Webmail-m111.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: FREESIAS? -their corms Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 14:25:00 -0400 (EDT) Hi, I never called them bulbs. That was somebody else, not that I mind. And yes, they are named - I did not misunderstand anything. Thank you. From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: FREESIAS? -their corms Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 19:44:28 +0100 No personal sleight intended Jane,and I apologise that for my phrasing. I am concious that this list is public and as such read by people who unlike yourself, would not instantly recognise a Freesia corm, in their hand, as a corm. As the term bulb was used with specific referance to Freesias in the price list you quoted from, I feel that some people might infer that Freesias have bulbs rather than corms -rather than only reading the word "bulb" in its colloquial sense which is, as you suggest, a practical necsesity in terms of general referance. Peter (UK) On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Jane McGary wrote: > Peter wrote, > >Surely you mean that the minimum order is 50 corms for $34.50 > >I have never yet, to my knowlege, seen a Freesia "bulb". > >-no wonder people get confused..... > > Well, yes, I do know the difference between a bulb and a corm, having > repotted tens of thousands of them over the years, .. And after all, > we decided to call ourselves the Pacific Bulb Society when we could > have chosen the Pacific and All Other Geographical Areas Bulb, Corm, > Tuber, and Large Rhizome Society. > > From ds429@comcast.net Sun, 03 Jun 2012 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <764245205.455392.1338750265724.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: An inquiry: Delphinium cardinale bulbs Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 19:04:25 +0000 (UTC) ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "Larry Green" To: ds429@comcast.net Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2012 2:52:26 PM Subject: PBS website contact:Delphinium cardinale bulbs   I live in the Denver, Colorado metro area and I am seeking Delphinium cardinale bulbs. Do any of your members have any for sale? -- Pacific Bulb Society web site email: website@pacificbulbsociety.org _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwickham@sbcglobal.net Sun, 03 Jun 2012 14:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1338756901.23382.YahooMailClassic@web81504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: John Wickham Subject: An inquiry: Delphinium cardinale bulbs Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 13:55:01 -0700 (PDT) Delphinium cardinale doesn't produce bulbs. You can periodically buy them from Annies Annuals. John --- On Sun, 6/3/12, ds429@comcast.net wrote: From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: [pbs] An inquiry: Delphinium cardinale bulbs To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Date: Sunday, June 3, 2012, 12:04 PM ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "Larry Green" To: ds429@comcast.net Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2012 2:52:26 PM Subject: PBS website contact:Delphinium cardinale bulbs   I live in the Denver, Colorado metro area and I am seeking Delphinium cardinale bulbs. Do any of your members have any for sale? -- Pacific Bulb Society web site email: website@pacificbulbsociety.org From othonna@gmail.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 15:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: An inquiry: Delphinium cardinale bulbs Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 14:35:27 -0700 Larry, While this species can be treated just like a bulb (geophyte), it is easiest to start from seed. I have grown it for over 15 years as a pot plant in an 8" pot and it flowers most every year. It does not grow as tall as it would in the garden but it is still quite nice. The rootstock is a short root with a few short lobes, the whole thing 1-2" long. A search on the web should easily turn up seed sources. Dylan On 3 June 2012 12:04, wrote: > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > From: "Larry Green" > To: ds429@comcast.net > Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2012 2:52:26 PM > Subject: PBS website contact:Delphinium cardinale bulbs > > I live in the Denver, Colorado metro area and I am seeking Delphinium > cardinale bulbs. Do any of your members have any for sale? -- Pacific Bulb > Society web site email: website@pacificbulbsociety.org > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- "*Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.*" ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton From othonna@gmail.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 15:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: An inquiry: Delphinium cardinale bulbs Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 14:37:21 -0700 Forgot to add: this is a winter grower for me, active Oct/Nov to Mar/Apr, then a dry leafless dormancy. From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 16:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <92ACD3D9-365C-45DC-B9BE-FB9E836791E1@gmail.com> From: Steven Subject: Musa corms Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 09:00:54 +1000 To answer your question on Musa Peter. I have been told by commercial banana growers that bananas are a corm & the plant is actually a stool... Steven : ) Esk Queensland Australia Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 On 04/06/2012, at 1:38 AM, Peter Taggart wrote: I read on wikipedia that Musa havecorms, -stated with confidence. Perhaps it is true? Peter (UK) > > From santoury@aol.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 17:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF0FF87F2EE60A-B80-1534F@webmail-m151.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Musa corms Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 19:34:04 -0400 (EDT) I did not know that banana corms pooped! From othonna@gmail.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 18:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Musa corms Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 17:59:04 -0700 Peter, The term "corm" is inconsistently defined by various sources, including a number of botanical dictionaries. The better definition, in my view, is one that can be usefully confined to bulb-like stems comprised of several nodes and internodes that are *completely exhausted and renewed each season*. Examples include Crocus, Gladiolus, Amorphophallus (not quite all), and many South African irids. "Bulb" can also be closely defined, which usually leaves "tuber" as the catch-all category for other geophytes. Calling a banana rhizome a "corm" is like calling a palm trunk a "caudex", which is an older use of a word now applied to very different structures. Dylan On 3 June 2012 16:00, Steven wrote: > To answer your question on Musa Peter. > I have been told by commercial banana growers that bananas are a corm & > the plant is actually a stool... > > Steven : ) > Esk Queensland Australia > Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 > > On 04/06/2012, at 1:38 AM, Peter Taggart wrote: > > I read on wikipedia that Musa havecorms, -stated with confidence. Perhaps > it is true? > Peter (UK) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- "*Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.*" ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton From tim@gingerwoodnursery.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 18:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <5DA51B76-4ED5-409E-ACAD-1A7692BD8956@gingerwoodnursery.com> From: Tim Chapman Subject: Eucomis Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 20:01:14 -0500 > > Are there any yellow, gold, or chartreuse-leaf selections of any > Eucomis species? > > Nathan The question above was asked back in march, but while digging through the archives on Eucomis I came across it. I recently came across info on E. 'Glow Sticks' .. A great name if you are targeting rave going ecstasy users.. but otherwise not so good. It is a new release of Terra Nova Nurseries (don't know who the hybridizer is). It has new foliage that appears yellow to coppery. I'm not very fond of yellow foliage myself but was excited to see another one of the new releases, 'Dark Star.'. Their photo at least shows solid dark purple foliage, much darker than any of the E autumnalis clones out there (ie oak hurst and sparkling beauty, etc. E vandermerwei is obviously one parent to this as well as 'Freckles' another one of their offerings. A link to these hybrids: http://www.terranovanurseries.com/growers/eucomis-c-82_88.html It's good to see some unique Eucomis hybrids showing up, I think there is tremendous potential with this genus. Tim Chapman From tim@gingerwoodnursery.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 19:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tim Chapman Subject: Musa corms Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 20:24:55 -0500 On Jun 3, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Hannon wrote: > > > Calling a banana rhizome a "corm" is like calling a palm trunk a "caudex", > which is an older use of a word now applied to very different structures. > > Dylan If this is the case then how do you define rhizome? Most Musa do not fit the the normal definition of rhizome. Also, how would Ensete be classified as they do not spread at all? Tim Chapman From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun, 03 Jun 2012 19:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Eucomis Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2012 18:34:05 -0700 Tim wrote >I'm not very fond of yellow foliage myself but was excited to see >another one of the new releases, 'Dark Star.'. Their photo at least >shows solid dark purple foliage, much darker than any of the E >autumnalis clones out there (ie oak hurst and sparkling beauty, >etc. E vandermerwei is obviously one parent to this as well as >'Freckles' another one of their offerings. I am growing 'Dark Star' and it is handsome and vigorous. I think by "sparkling beauty" Tim means 'Sparkling Burgundy', which is widely offered, possibly not always the true clone of that name. It's a bit lighter purple but also very vigorous. These purple ones emerge quite a bit earlier here than the various green-leaved species, which I grew from seed. I have a bed the central part of which is devoted to Eucomis, interspersed with Heuchera selections with purple-and-silver foliage and punctuated by an oakleaf Hydrangea that assumes interesting foliage tones. (I don't care for most yellow-foliaged plants either; they look sick to me.) This is one of the best South African genera for growing in colder climates, because it emerges late in spring and can be protected by deep planting and plenty of mulch. However, the flowers of E. autumnalis can be ruined by frost in fall. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From othonna@gmail.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 19:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Musa corms Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 18:50:53 -0700 Tim, Again, we are dealing with imperfect language (definitions) for structures or 'behaviors' that do not comply to a single norm. Such a caveat applies to most morphological terminology. That said, a rhizome can be thought of as a (typically) horizontally oriented stem with multiple and often congested nodes/internodes. There is a discernible "front end" and "rear end", where the rear dies off gradually and the front progresses and often may branch. Each node may have a potential growth bud. Bearded iris and Aspidistra are classic examples of plants with rhizomes. I think more often rhizomatous plants are better regarded as perennials in the broad sense rather than geophytes in particular. Aside from size and notable pseudostem, why can't Musa be considered rhizomatous? Dylan On 3 June 2012 18:24, Tim Chapman wrote: > > > On Jun 3, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Hannon wrote: > > > > > > > Calling a banana rhizome a "corm" is like calling a palm trunk a > "caudex", > > which is an older use of a word now applied to very different structures. > > > > Dylan > > If this is the case then how do you define rhizome? Most Musa do not fit > the the normal definition of rhizome. Also, how would Ensete be classified > as they do not spread at all? > > Tim Chapman > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- "*Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.*" ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton From othonna@gmail.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 19:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Musa corms Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 18:54:35 -0700 Follow-up: a rhizome may give rise to various types of shoots, as in Cattleya or Flagellaria, or to individual leaves and flowers or inflorescences. On 3 June 2012 18:24, Tim Chapman wrote: > > > On Jun 3, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Hannon wrote: > > > > > > > Calling a banana rhizome a "corm" is like calling a palm trunk a > "caudex", > > which is an older use of a word now applied to very different structures. > > > > Dylan > > If this is the case then how do you define rhizome? Most Musa do not fit > the the normal definition of rhizome. Also, how would Ensete be classified > as they do not spread at all? > > Tim Chapman > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- "*Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.*" ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton From tim@gingerwoodnursery.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 20:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tim Chapman Subject: Eucomis Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 21:18:03 -0500 > . I think by > "sparkling beauty" Tim means 'Sparkling Burgundy', which is widely > offered, possibly not always the true clone of that name. Yes I meant Sparkling Burgundy, oops . > > > This is one of the best South African genera for growing in colder > climates, because it emerges late in spring and can be protected by > deep planting and plenty of mulch. However, the flowers of E. > autumnalis can be ruined by frost in fall. > These are very adaptable plants as they also thrive in south Louisiana. I originally planted them in a terrible location and they fortunately made it through a few years of not so great conditions. Here the E comosa types and the reddish E autumnalis types sprout first (some are blooming now) followed by E pallidiflora, and later by E zambesiaca and E bicolor (the latter are still not in the best location and this may be why the are always last. Perhaps these normally high elevation diploid spp just don't thrive as well as the lower elevation tetraploid spp do here. Too early to tell. I have three other spp to plant out eventually, and still looking for grimshawii, schijffi, a true montana, and amaryllidifolia. (I don't see it listed as such but E amaryllidifolia has been reinstated to species level by Duncan due to it being a diploid and not an allotetraploid like E autumnalis). Where did you buy the 'Dark Star'? I see 'Freckles' for sale online but hadn't come across Dark Star. Tim Chapman From zigur@hotmail.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 20:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: Musa corms Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 19:55:16 -0700 Caudex is just the latin word for trunk. Palm trees definitely have them. Surprisingly, so do Dudleyas, but that is OT. T > Calling a banana rhizome a "corm" is like calling a palm trunk a "caudex", > which is an older use of a word now applied to very different structures. > > Dylan From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 20:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Steven Subject: Musa corms Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 12:56:56 +1000 Even though Musa are described as corms, Perhaps they don't quite fit the descriptions of rhizome, bulb or corm well enough. So i recon we should re-wright the Dictionaries & the Wiki's & reclassify them Rhizocorms Steven : ) Esk Queensland Australia Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 On 04/06/2012, at 11:24 AM, Tim Chapman wrote: > > On Jun 3, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Hannon wrote: >> >> Calling a banana rhizome a "corm" is like calling a palm trunk a "caudex", >> Dylan > > Most Musa do not fit the the normal definition of rhizome. > Tim Chapman > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sun, 03 Jun 2012 20:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <4FCC28AA.3020209@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Musa corms Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2012 15:16:58 +1200 What a great idea Steven! On 4/06/2012 2:56 p.m., Steven wrote: > So i recon we should re-wright the Dictionaries& the Wiki's& reclassify them Rhizocorms > > Steven : ) -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From tim@gingerwoodnursery.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tim Chapman Subject: Musa corms Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 22:18:34 -0500 > > > Aside from size and notable pseudostem, why can't Musa be considered > rhizomatous? > > Dylan > Some are. Musa taxonomists consider some to have corms, other species to have rhizomes. If you were to dig up a rhizomatous species (for example M laterita ) you find something something similar to a Canna rhizome (on steroids). Ie plants attached to a network of rhizomes that are growing horizontally continuously. In M laterita the rhizome can grow a meter before throwing up a new sprout. These rhizomes will usually survive a dormancy or two at least and can sprout new growth along the the rhizome (not just at the end of the growing point..if that makes sense). On the other hand species with corms will spout new plants but there is no connecting stem/rhizome per se. The two corms will eventually separate. The difference is noticeable above ground as well as the rhizomatous plants are clearly runners that can quickly colonize a large area. Those with corms have a more clumping habit. Don't know if it holds true for all Musa, but it seems that rhizome vs corm fits with naturally deciduous vs evergreen. There might be exceptions? 90% of what I grow has rhizomes so it really doesn't matter to me :) but taxonomists do make a distinction within Musa. I agree that the definitions leave room for debate, or better yet that trying to fit so many different types of plants that evolved their growing structures over millions of years into three or so categories is somewhat limiting. I vote we call everything bulbs! ;) Tim Chapman From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sun, 03 Jun 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4FCC2A1B.3010707@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Musa corms Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2012 15:23:07 +1200 Yayyy! On 4/06/2012 3:18 p.m., Tim Chapman wrote: > I vote we call everything bulbs!;) > > Tim Chapman -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Musaceae Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 22:26:17 -0500 Dear Friends, All members of the family Musaceae and the related Zingiberales have rhizomes. Although somewhat modified in bananas, it is very obvious in Cannas, Gingers, Heliconias and other relatives. Just the way it is. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Alstroemeria aurea sources Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 22:28:33 -0500 >Jane's right, this one is more often sold under the old name, A. aurantiaca. > >Here are some US Alstroemeria sources: > >http://www.anniesannuals.com/plt_lst/lists/general/lst.gen.asp?prodid=1616 >Mike Dear Mikee, This looked like a good attempt, but close inspection showed that all but one were either defunct, unavailable or unclear what was being offered etc. Only Annie's actually offered this species. At $10 @ the price is not so bad, but $30 shipping to Kansas City makes it a $40 'weed'. Thanks, but no..... Best Jim -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From othonna@gmail.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Musa corms Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 20:45:57 -0700 Tim, I know Musa is diverse and don't doubt that that diversity extends to rootstocks. Perhaps it is a case similar to Amorphophallus, but reversed: almost all amorphos grow from a more or less globular or discoid structure that is typically used up completely each season and is "replaced" by a new corm formed at (and by) the base of the current season's leaf and cataphylls. However, there is at least one species, A. coaetaneus, that could be described as forming a "chain of corms". Instead of being used up entirely in a season, the corms persist in rhizomatous fashion for several years. Thus, we may consider cormous plants-- certain irids, aroids and others-- to be derived from likely rhizomatous ancestors. It sounds as though this might be the case in Musa, too. I'm not aware of any proper Musa species that do not offset, but there are numerous amorphos that can and do make offsets-- together the mother and daughter corms could be thought of as an extremely abbreviated rhizomatous system (of corms). Dylan From tim@gingerwoodnursery.com Sun, 03 Jun 2012 22:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <92635B52-D33E-4056-BE41-D8B3E1A589D5@gingerwoodnursery.com> From: Tim Chapman Subject: Musa corms Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 00:11:24 -0500 Dylan, Again it all boils down to limiting definitions and diversity. Given the definitions available and the history of use most Musa have corms, some have rhizomes. Now clearly a Musa corm does not fit into the definition you refer to in regards to depletion of and reforming a new corm etc. My main point is that in Musa taxonomy a distinction is made between the two. @ Waddick, the foremost authority on and taxonomist of Musa refers to corms in his literature. The use of the term is valid. Now again we are referring to definitions that aren't ..uh, well defined. Amorphophallus and Musa corms don't function the same way obviously. So yes it is valid to call them both corms but no they aren't the same thing. The same issue exists within Zingiberaceae. All are supposed to have rhizomes yet some do not really fit the definition at all, and almost fit into your definition of corm. However they are called rhizomes. In regards to your statement, yes all Musa sucker, some more than others. The rhizomatous spp will sucker at the base of the pseudostem and along new rhizomes that form. The majority of spp just form new shoots at the base of pseudostem, ie around the top of the corm. Ensete are a different story as they do not multiply at all (unless hacked up and forced to). The corm of an Ensete is not a horizontally growing stem by any means nor is it meant to be a method of reproduction...unless you accept the transfer of Musella back into Ensete.. and if the Musa/Ensete intermediate ever gets published .. Then it gets blurry again. Anyways loose definitions always cause problems when you try to use them for tighter descriptions. As with your examples the lines get blurred. So I think the invention of rhizocorm and modified rhizocorm sounds like a good idea. Tim Chapman On Jun 3, 2012, at 10:45 PM, Hannon wrote: > Tim, > > I know Musa is diverse and don't doubt that that diversity extends to > rootstocks. Perhaps it is a case similar to Amorphophallus, but reversed: > almost all amorphos grow from a more or less globular or discoid structure > that is typically used up completely each season and is "replaced" by a new > corm formed at (and by) the base of the current season's leaf and > cataphylls. However, there is at least one species, A. coaetaneus, that > could be described as forming a "chain of corms". Instead of being used up > entirely in a season, the corms persist in rhizomatous fashion for several > years. Thus, we may consider cormous plants-- certain irids, aroids and > others-- to be derived from likely rhizomatous ancestors. > > It sounds as though this might be the case in Musa, too. I'm not aware of > any proper Musa species that do not offset, but there are numerous amorphos > that can and do make offsets-- together the mother and daughter corms could > be thought of as an extremely abbreviated rhizomatous system (of corms). > > Dylan > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From petersirises@gmail.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 05:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Musa corms Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 12:39:33 +0100 What about the modified leaves - "annular rings" on a corm? I understand a corm to be a stem surrounded by rings of modified leaves, split a Crocosmia and it is very clear. The central stem (miristem?) with a top shoot, possible side shoots (both root and stem) and roots at the bottom of the stem. a new corm is normally formed on top of the old corm, (which may wither OR NOT), each growing cycle. A bulb has a basal plate on which the modified leaves sit (scales), (tulips often have only one I think), onions or daffodils are better examples. I was taught that a tuber is a swollen root and that a rhizome is a swollen stem. There are also such structures as "tuberous roots" though I am not sure if this is a technical term. Neither roots nor tubers are surrounded by leaves but a rhizome is a swollen stem with an extending shoot at the tip which grows leaves and produces roots as it extends. I believe there are rather more types of tuber but I understand that they too do not have their bulk consisting of some type of leaf tissue. Both tubers and stems have internal structure made up of cell tissue apropriately arranged. I understand a stool to be a stump from which shoots may appear, sometimes used for propagating, or else to coppice larger plants, I was not aware that a stool was an anatomical structure. Peter (UK) On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 1:59 AM, Hannon wrote: > Peter, > > The term "corm" is inconsistently defined by various sources, including a > number of botanical dictionaries. The better definition, in my view, is one > that can be usefully confined to bulb-like stems comprised of several nodes > and internodes that are *completely exhausted and renewed each season*. > Examples include Crocus, Gladiolus, Amorphophallus (not quite all), and > many South African irids. "Bulb" can also be closely defined, which usually > leaves "tuber" as the catch-all category for other geophytes. > > Calling a banana rhizome a "corm" is like calling a palm trunk a "caudex", > which is an older use of a word now applied to very different structures. > > On 3 June 2012 16:00, Steven wrote: > > I have been told by commercial banana growers that bananas are a corm & > > the plant is actually a stool... > > > > On 04/06/2012, at 1:38 AM, Peter Taggart wrote: > > > > I read on wikipedia that Musa havecorms, -stated with confidence. > Perhaps > > it is true? > From petersirises@gmail.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 05:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Musa corms Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 12:48:14 +0100 as I said earlier, I shall look for an opportunity to do some dissection on Musa, I reached this conversation before Jim Waddicks email and being familiar with a few of the ginger family I find his statement convincing. Peter (UK) From petersirises@gmail.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 06:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Musa corms Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 13:17:17 +0100 Please, could there be some clarification here? Peter (UK) Jim's ealier email.... Dear Friends, All members of the family Musaceae and the related Zingiberales have rhizomes. Although somewhat modified in bananas, it is very obvious in Cannas, Gingers, Heliconias and other relatives. Just the way it is. Best Jim W. On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 6:11 AM, Tim Chapman wrote: > Dylan, > > Again it all boils down to limiting definitions and diversity. Given the > definitions available and the history of use most Musa have corms, some > have rhizomes. Now clearly a Musa corm does not fit into the definition > you refer to in regards to depletion of and reforming a new corm etc. My > main point is that in Musa taxonomy a distinction is made between the two. > > @ Waddick, the foremost authority on and taxonomist of Musa refers to > corms in his literature. The use of the term is valid. > > From othonna@gmail.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 07:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Musa corms Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 06:33:22 -0700 Tim, You wrote: "So yes it is valid to call them both corms but no they aren't the same thing." It is only "valid" in the sense that different taxonomic researchers may apply the term to structures that are not homologous, and that editors allow preferences. The same is true in Araceae, where one researcher may refer to the rootstock of Amorphophallus as a tuber, while another calls it a corm. With such allowances for inconsistency, growers and botanists alike are unable to achieve a precise, common understanding of basic terms and communication suffers at all levels. Dylan From capebulbs@gmail.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 08:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <3383A502-A3D2-4F96-AD1A-081D14E0F86D@gmail.com> From: Passiflora Cui Subject: Rhodophiala: A Nederland Challege! Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 22:50:25 +0800 Jane McGary wrote: "Finally, in regard to pots vs. open ground for bulbs, I find that most of the larger ones are far better without root restriction. " Not only the larger ones are most suitable for ground, however, some small bulbs are also need to be grown on the ground, or they are difficult to bloom. Such as the most common Lycoris species in China, L. radiata, though the average diameter of their bulbs can not be larger than 3cm, they're still not fit for pots. When I was a small child, I grew 4 bulbs in a 15-inch earthen pot, they struggled in the pot and one of them flowered only 4 buds 4 years later since I transplanted them from the mountains in Nanchang. and the bulbs some became exhausted after flowering. However, those grown in the ground flowered every year, always with two scapes per bulb and one scape often bore 6~8flowers. As L. radiata is among the smallest sized species of genus Lycoris , it's still not fit for pots. So let alone those with larger bulbs with the diameter as large as more than 5cm such as L. longituba and L. aurea. In addition, they are not pleased to be moved frequently like Boophone and Burnsvigia. For they still have fresh roots when dormancy, which, if damaged, the plant will take several years to recover and bloom. Passiflora Cui (Yuwen Cui) Hefei, Anhui, China From rbartontx@yahoo.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 09:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1338823812.35788.YahooMailNeo@web125606.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Rodney Barton Subject: Rhodophiala: A Nederland Challege! Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 08:30:12 -0700 (PDT) L. radiata is a common pass-a-round plant here. I find that it is sensitive to planting depth. Planted at the wrong dept it will take the time to form a new bulb at it's preferred depth before flowering. Rod - North Central Texas, USA Passiflora Cui wrote with regard to L. radiata: > >In addition, they are not pleased to be moved frequently like Boophone and Burnsvigia. For they still have fresh roots when dormancy, which, if damaged, the plant will take several years to recover and bloom. > > From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon, 04 Jun 2012 09:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1338824820.76567.YahooMailNeo@web84515.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Musa corms Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 08:47:00 -0700 (PDT) I'm too busy to get into this discussion now, but I'm sooooo tempted. So I'll add this: one of the reasons attempts to define structures can be so difficult is that the structures in question often evolve separately. A useful distinction is the distinction between analogous structures and homologous structures. Analogous structures, although apparently similar, do not share a common embryological/evolutionary history. The wings of insects and the wings of birds are analogous structures: we call both wings, but these structures have distinct embryological/ evolutionary histories. I've never met anyone whose sense of language propriety is so refined that they felt it an error to call both wings, even though they were very aware that they had nothing in common except an apparent function.  Homologous structures on the other hand share a common embryological or evolutionary history, and that they are of common origin is often not at all apparent. For instance, our teeth and the rough material in shark skin share a common embryological origin - they are homologous structures. Our finger nails and the horn of rhinoceros share a common embryological origin and are homologous structures.  True bulbs and bulb-like structures occur in both monocots and dicots: almost certainly they evolved separately in these groups. But the concept of deep homology might account for their origin.  But even when all is said and done, when all the definitions have been screwed up as tight as possible, there will always be this: try as we might, it is virtually impossible to speak or write without being to some degree metaphorical.   Jim McKenney From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 09:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Crocosmia Q Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 11:00:53 -0500 Dear Boyce, Over the last few years we have become smitten by Crocosmia. After a couple failures 'Lucifer' is well established and dazzles in mid-summer. Then 'George Davidson' and 'Distant Planet'. In the last year we added about 10 more cvs. We thought we were about at the northern limits. Last weekend we we went to Omaha and saw a big clump of Lucifer at Lauritzen Gardens. This got us to wonder. Does CBG grow any Crocsmia and if so which? Have you tried and lost any? We found single 'dry' corms are very difficult to establish, but kept in a pot for a year to get good roots and 'mother' corms, they establish pretty well. Pot grown cvs are also easy. I wonder how far north these things really are. Any thoughts or recommendations? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From silkie@frontiernet.net Mon, 04 Jun 2012 09:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <02a901cd426c$66a1bfb0$33e53f10$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Musa corms Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 09:09:20 -0700 Thank you. Well said. Colleen NE Calif. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jim McKenney Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 8:47 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Musa corms I'm too busy to get into this discussion now, but I'm sooooo tempted. So I'll add this: one of the reasons attempts to define structures can be so difficult is that the structures in question often evolve separately. A useful distinction is the distinction between analogous structures and homologous structures. Analogous structures, although apparently similar, do not share a common embryological/evolutionary history. The wings of insects and the wings of birds are analogous structures: we call both wings, but these structures have distinct embryological/ evolutionary histories. I've never met anyone whose sense of language propriety is so refined that they felt it an error to call both wings, even though they were very aware that they had nothing in common except an apparent function.  Homologous structures on the other hand share a common embryological or evolutionary history, and that they are of common origin is often not at all apparent. For instance, our teeth and the rough material in shark skin share a common embryological origin - they are homologous structures. Our finger nails and the horn of rhinoceros share a common embryological origin and are homologous structures.  True bulbs and bulb-like structures occur in both monocots and dicots: almost certainly they evolved separately in these groups. But the concept of deep homology might account for their origin.  But even when all is said and done, when all the definitions have been screwed up as tight as possible, there will always be this: try as we might, it is virtually impossible to speak or write without being to some degree metaphorical.   Jim McKenney From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 10:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Crocosmia Q Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 11:23:07 -0500 Sorry meant as a private message. Jim W. unless some one grows Crocosmia in Zone 4 or 5 -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 10:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Dioscorea Q Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 11:27:57 -0500 Dear PBSers, Last weekend we we went to Omaha and saw a big plant of an obvious Dioscorea at Lauritzen Gardens. I did not recognize the species, but it is obviously fully hardy that far north. It has three-winged papery seed pods in a chain along the stem and there were seedlings at the base of the vine. A quick Googling came up with D. caucasica, but does anyone grow or know this one? I notice there are NO hardy Dioscorea on the wiki. Appreciate any experience. I have emailed the garden for an ID, but appreciate hearing of experiences. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon, 04 Jun 2012 10:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Eucomis Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2012 09:30:59 -0700 Tim asked, >Where did you buy the 'Dark Star'? I see 'Freckles' for sale online >but hadn't come across Dark Star. Sorry, Tim, I bought it at a local plant sale. Terranova Nursery is a local wholesale firm and sometimes their introductions come on the market sooner here. You might check the website of Cistus Nursery (www.cistus.com) which isn't always up to date on their offerings (their holdings are vast) but you could inquire. Also check Rare Plant Research, which must have a website -- it is a local nursery specializing in half-hardy and tender species and does have a number of Eucomis. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From plicht@berkeley.edu Mon, 04 Jun 2012 10:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4FCCE6F4.5000003@berkeley.edu> From: Paul Licht Subject: Dioscorea Q Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2012 09:48:52 -0700 We have 13 species in the Garden but not this one. http://bnhm.berkeley.edu/query/index.php?&ucbg=true&Genericname=dioscorea&Country_standard=undefined&ViewResults=bigtable&Focus=View+Results&Scientificname=dioscorea&Orderby=scientificname Paul Licht, Director University of California Botanical Garden 200 Centennial Drive Berkeley, CA 94720 (510)-643-8999 http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu On 6/4/2012 9:27 AM, James Waddick wrote: > Dear PBSers, > Last weekend we we went to Omaha and saw a big plant of an > obvious Dioscorea at Lauritzen Gardens. > I did not recognize the species, but it is obviously fully > hardy that far north. It has three-winged papery seed pods in a chain > along the stem and there were seedlings at the base of the vine. > > A quick Googling came up with D. caucasica, but does anyone > grow or know this one? I notice there are NO hardy Dioscorea on the > wiki. > > Appreciate any experience. I have emailed the garden for an > ID, but appreciate hearing of experiences. > > Best Jim W. > > From vc2m@mac.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 11:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <30f36f32-2d2d-45e0-f951-9a4282b93be9@me.com> From: VIJAY CHANDHOK Subject: Crocosmia Q Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2012 16:53:21 +0000 (GMT) I grow Crocosmia in Pittsburgh zoned 5 or 6, Lucifer has been around for quite a few years but only in certain areas of the garden in other areas it only lasts one year. Vijay On Jun 04, 2012, at 09:23 AM, James Waddick wrote: > Sorry meant as a private message. Jim W. > > unless some one grows Crocosmia in Zone 4 or 5 > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 10:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Lycoris Planting Challege! Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 11:56:01 -0500 >Rodney Wrote: L. radiata is a common pass-a-round plant here. I >find that it is sensitive to planting depth. Planted at the wrong >dept it will take the time to form a new bulb at it's preferred >depth before flowering. > Yuwen Cui wrote: For they still have fresh roots when >dormancy, which, if damaged, the plant will take several years to >recover and bloom. Dear Friends, This is a frequent discussion, but some bulbs do not take to growing in pots although the reason may not be clear. And some may be very slow to adjust to incorrect planting depth. Indeed Lycoris do not bloom well in pots and they have preferred planting depths. Other bulbs are far more tolerant. This is the value of this group as we discuss specific examples of what works and what fails. I love to hear of these challenges. Makes the next round so much easier. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 10:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Musaceae and rhizomes Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 12:03:03 -0500 >Please, could there be some clarification here? >Peter (UK) > > All members of the family Musaceae and the related >Zingiberales have rhizomes. Although somewhat modified in bananas, it >is very obvious in Cannas, Gingers, Heliconias and other relatives. > Dear Peter and all, Anatomical categories (rhizome, corm, etc) are just like taxonomic categories (Muscaeae, Brunsvigia, Iris) in some ways. They are artificial 'pigeon holes'. If an organism fits the definition it goes in the box. Some of these boxes are VERY narrow (montypic genera like Worsleya or unique anatomical structure such as Dodder /Cucuta that lacks both leaves and chlorophyll ) and others are very wide such as Iridaceae and Orchidaceae. Same for structures. Some are highly modified and some take close sleuthing to fit in the pigeon hole. By common sense agreement we often say things such as all member of the genus x have 3 petals, except for those that have 5 or 6. Same for some anatomical structures. All Musaceae have rhizomes because most are readily obvious and fit the pigeon hole for "rhizome". Some are odd variations on the theme. I am sure you can think of some structure or taxonomic category that you have to stretch to fit all members, but that is just the nature of variation among organisms. So basically one has look beyond one extreme condition and look at the whole plant or the whole family. Widen the focus from the odd variation to the bigger scheme of things. I feel very confidant having look at banana rhizomes of all sorts and read a lot of the literature, that all Musaceae and Zingiberales have rhizomes. Some are very odd, but so is their foliage, flowers, leaves etc. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From petersirises@gmail.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Musaceae and rhizomes Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 18:21:14 +0100 Thank you Jim, You were referenced as having published material referring to corms of Musa earlier in this discussion, which is why I asked for clarification. I do find your reply informative as well as sensible and I am sure others do.. Peter (UK) On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 6:03 PM, James Waddick wrote: .... > So basically one has look beyond one extreme condition and > look at the whole plant or the whole family. Widen the focus from the > odd variation to the bigger scheme of things. > > I feel very confidant having look at banana rhizomes of all > sorts and read a lot of the literature, that all Musaceae and > Zingiberales have rhizomes. Some are very odd, but so is their > foliage, flowers, leaves etc. > > From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon, 04 Jun 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1338831201.96117.YahooMailNeo@web84510.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Dioscorea Q Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 10:33:21 -0700 (PDT) I'll bet the Dioscorea Jim Waddick saw in Omaha was D. quaternata, a species whose range includes most of the eastern half of the United States. It is a common woodland plant here in Maryland, and a very ornamental one, too.  It's range includes Missouri.  Jim McKenney From othonna@gmail.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 11:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Musa corms Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 10:45:39 -0700 Jim, I'm happy to see your support for the effort to make distinctions, in this case homologous vs. analagous. Would you agree that it is important to discern structures morphologically as well? I think it is important to recognize that there is a useful degree of precision-- limited though it may be-- in defining terms for geophyte rootstocks. Some folks seem to disagree with this idea because no perfect system is possible, or for other reasons. Dylan http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- "*Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.*" ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton From blee811@aol.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 11:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF10926C81E107-1F60-18B3C@webmail-d129.sysops.aol.com> From: Bill Lee Subject: Lycoris Planting Challege! Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 13:55:56 -0400 (EDT) I have a bag of L. squamigera that were dug this past weekend at a farm in Michigan. An expert from MOBOT said they should be plamted righ away with an inch or two of the top left exposed. Bill Lee -----Original Message----- From: James Waddick To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Mon, Jun 4, 2012 1:03 pm Subject: [pbs] Lycoris Planting Challege! >Rodney Wrote: L. radiata is a common pass-a-round plant here. I find that it is sensitive to planting depth. Planted at the wrong dept it will take the time to form a new bulb at it's preferred depth before flowering. Yuwen Cui wrote: For they still have fresh roots when dormancy, which, if damaged, the plant will take several years to recover and bloom. Dear Friends, This is a frequent discussion, but some bulbs do not take to rowing in pots although the reason may not be clear. And some may e very slow to adjust to incorrect planting depth. Indeed Lycoris do ot bloom well in pots and they have preferred planting depths. Other ulbs are far more tolerant. This is the value of this group as we discuss specific xamples of what works and what fails. I love to hear of these challenges. Makes the next round o much easier. Best Jim W. - r. James W. Waddick 871 NW Brostrom Rd. ansas City Missouri 64152-2711 SA h. 816-746-1949 one 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + _______________________________________________ bs mailing list bs@lists.ibiblio.org ttp://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ttp://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 22:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Lycoris Planting Challege! Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 13:36:46 -0500 >I have a bag of L. squamigera that were dug this past weekend at a >farm in Michigan. An expert from MOBOT said they should be plamted >righ away with an inch or two of the top left exposed. >Bill Lee Dear Bill, You don't say where you are planting them - MI, St. Louis? These should be planted as soon as possible and kept slightly moist until you are ready. Mist the bulbs and keep in cool shaded spot in a zip loc bag for a week or two if needed. Do not allow them to dry out totally. In Zone 5/6 the bulbs should be covered, but just. Keep the top of the bulb at or just below ground level; water well after planting and then let them be. Hopefully some may bloom this year, yet, but they may take 2 or 3 years to settle down and then expect regular annual flowering. L. squamigera is one of the most accommodating and easiest of the Lycoris in mid-US. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From avbeek1@hotmail.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 12:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: a vbeek Subject: Lycoris Planting Challege! Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 18:37:02 +0000 James > This is a frequent discussion, but some bulbs do not take to > growing in pots although the reason may not be clear. And some may > be very slow to adjust to incorrect planting depth. Indeed Lycoris do > not bloom well in pots and they have preferred planting depths. Other > bulbs are far more tolerant. After reading several mails about preferred planting depth of Lycoris I'm curious about what depth this may be. Aad From idavide@sbcglobal.net Mon, 04 Jun 2012 12:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <1338836758.41267.YahooMailRC@web184408.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Musa corms Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 12:05:58 -0700 (PDT) Gosh, in elementary school I was taught that a tuber is a stem, not a root.  Of course, the only tubers that New York City schoolchildcren were likely to be familiar with were potatoes, where the tuber is a stem -- I think. David E. ________________________________ From: Peter Taggart To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Mon, June 4, 2012 4:39:43 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Musa corms I was taught that a tuber is a swollen root and that a rhizome is a swollen stem. From silkie@frontiernet.net Mon, 04 Jun 2012 12:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <02e001cd4285$4d9fbc10$e8df3430$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Lycoris Planting Challege! Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 12:07:35 -0700 While my comments do not pertain specifically to Lycoris, I think planting depths are only a guideline and are not specific in all cases. In the harsh climate of NE Calif and N Nevada, my friends and I have found that we often have to plant something deeper than most anyone would think a sane person would consider in order to see a bulb last from year to year. Colleen NE Calif our winter lows have ranged from mid teens to -32F. Two years ago it was -22F, but this year we only got to the single digits. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of a vbeek Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 11:37 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] Lycoris Planting Challege! James > This is a frequent discussion, but some bulbs do not take to growing > in pots although the reason may not be clear. And some may be very > slow to adjust to incorrect planting depth. Indeed Lycoris do not > bloom well in pots and they have preferred planting depths. Other > bulbs are far more tolerant. After reading several mails about preferred planting depth of Lycoris I'm curious about what depth this may be. Aad From othonna@gmail.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 12:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Musa corms Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 12:16:13 -0700 David, Yes, a tuber is a special sort of stem. But because plants enjoy confounding our best efforts to "pigeonhole" them, there are cases where stem tissue may be transitional to root tissue. One South African Dioscorea sp. was found to possess both root and stem tissue (at the anatomical level) mixed within its rootstock. Potatoes are interesting in that they propagate by stolons and form a larger network for a single plant (please correct me if I'm wrong on this). What could be called a more 'orthodox' tuber is solitary, static and accumulates mass over time-- Cyclamen, many Sinningia, Begonia x hybrida, etc. Dylan On 4 June 2012 12:05, David Ehrlich wrote: > Gosh, in elementary school I was taught that a tuber is a stem, not a > root. Of > course, the only tubers that New York City schoolchildcren were likely to > be > familiar with were potatoes, where the tuber is a stem -- I think. > > David E. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Peter Taggart > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: Mon, June 4, 2012 4:39:43 AM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Musa corms > > I was taught that a tuber is a swollen root and that a rhizome is a swollen > stem. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- "*Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.*" ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton From Miller7398@comcast.net Mon, 04 Jun 2012 13:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <41C57E5054A24EEBA8FC20C14B1A574F@OwnerPC> From: "Joyce Miller" Subject: Lycoris Planting Challege! Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 12:19:24 -0700 ... but some bulbs do not take to growing in pots .... This thread has explained and clarified some propagating behavior about the Lycoris. Earlier this spring I told the group I had seen a few radicals emerging in four gallon pots of Lycoris. They were in porous media with a layer of #2 turkey grit, in GH with min. 60 degree Fahrenheit and kept moist. I did not understand why the cotyledon never appeared. In May, I began dumping the pots. Incredibly, I found bulbs, roots and leaves about 4 inches below surface in one gallon pots. I quickly re-potted to the same depth in the gallon pots, watered in and plunged in the outdoor propagation area. No top growth sighted to date. My realistic choices are to leave in the pots or transplant to ground. I choose to let the bulbs remain in the pots. Best wishes, Joyce Miller, Gresham, Oregon, USA, USDA Zone 8. From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon, 04 Jun 2012 13:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1338838938.96159.YahooMailNeo@web84501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Musa corms Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 12:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Dylan, here's the way I look at this discussion. There are people who believe that the answer to these questions is merely a matter of definition: once the definition of corm is in place, and the definition of rhizome is in place, then the difference between the two is a difference in kind. On the other hand, there are people (this is my camp) who believe that  what we call typical corms, as in most crocuses,  evolved from rhizomes (remembering that some crocuses produce rhizomes, too),. To this camp,  the corm is simply a much compressed rhizome. Or rather, to interject the important distinction you made when we discussed this in the past, the corm is a much compressed modular rhizome. For people in this camp, the difference between a corm and a rhizome is a difference of degree.  Those who believe a difference in kind is involved will no doubt insist on sharp distinctions and, since such distinctions are not characteristic of the way things happen in nature, will no doubt find themselves involved in this discussion for a long time.  Those who believe a difference in degree is involved are probably content to recognize that while  some people might consider a given structure a corm and other people  might consider the same structure a rhizome, the only fact is that it is what it is regardless of what we call it.  Dylan, when I read what you wrote "Would you agree that it is important todiscern structures morphologically as well? I think it is important to recognize that there is a useful degree of precision-- limited though it may be-- in defining terms for geophyte rootstocks."  I had to wonder if what you meant when you said "discern structures morphologically" was that things which look alike (structures discerned morphologically). even when they are analogous rather than homologous structures, deserve the same useful degree of precision of definition routinely given to homologous structures. If that is what you meant, I think I would disagree for at least two reasons. For one, if the structures in question are analogous rather than homologous, then the distinctions between them are on the level of importance of the level of the distinctions to be made between insect wings and bird wings. Yes, it is important to learn the basic distinction (your limited useful degree of precision), but is it really worth a lot of discussion? The other reason is this: a system based on analogous distinctions will always be in tension with one based on homologous distinctions; and since most people will recognize the homologous distinctions to be more natural than the analogous distinctions, the system of analogous distinctions will suffer a constant attrition as more and more people come to understand the homologous distinctions.  I can't believe I wrote that on such a beautiful spring day! I need some sunshine.  Jim McKenney  From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon, 04 Jun 2012 13:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1338839319.97849.YahooMailNeo@web84519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Lycoris Planting Challege! Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 12:48:39 -0700 (PDT) Joyce, the reason you never saw cotyledons of Lycoris is that the cotyledons of Lycoris never appear above ground (unless the seed germinates on the surface, in which case the only part of the cotyledon visible will be that part emerging from the seed as the cotyledon pushes down (not up) into the soil. These plants produce a bulb before they produce their first true leaves.  Jim McKenney From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 13:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: "J. Agoston" Subject: Dioscorea Q Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 22:01:48 +0200 I have villosa, caucasica and one of their hybrid and maybe japonica, but i have to check. Janos Hungary Z5a From othonna@gmail.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Musa corms Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 14:35:50 -0700 Jim, Thanks for your reply. For us, and the other two growers who care about such things, a corm can be hypothesized to be a modified rhizome by reduction through evolution. However, I would ask what is the usefulness in saying to someone about his "Crocus bulbs": "Well, they are called corms but really it is just a fancy type of rhizome". What constructive purposed is served by this approach? Where would you draw the lines, if any, between the few most basic terms for geophyte rootstocks? It is not as if corms (sensu stricto) and rhizomes are scattered randomly through the plant kingdom and their presence is not predictive. Gingers are generally rhizomatous (no corms!) as we have learned, many irid genera and Tecophilaeaceae are wholly cormous, etc. If the rootstocks of a few taxa hold on to older corms or present a 'vestigial' rhizome we can still call them corms. Some cormous groups may have a few rhizomatous taxa and vice-versa. Biological terminology is supposed to be flexible in this way, even when applied definitions are fuzzy.To advocate against practical morphological distinctions and classifications, whether putatively homologous or analagous, runs counter to the function of the descriptive natural sciences. Other structures present real problems. "True bulb" examples like Lilium, Calochortus, Tulipa, Massonia and Oxalis are all very different in a variety of ways and it appears their bulbs are not altogether homologous structures. If they are not homologous but only analagous then would you have new terms coined for the different types of "bulbs"? I think it is fair to say that in botanical terminology both* differences in kind and in degree* may be in play for the same term. But merging basic concepts together, i.e., erasing boundaries between rootstock types via evolutionary hypotheses of homology accomplishes little that is applicable outside of theoretical (phylogenetic) considerations. Interesting, yes, but not constructive or practical. Many plants will not fit neatly into any roostock category and that is ok. I'm not sure what you mean when you say that "...the only fact is that it is what it is regardless of what we call it". You indicate that you wonder if it is worth all the fuss to labor at length over such subjects. The query answers itself I think and if others agree then the effort is worthwhile. Dylan On 4 June 2012 12:42, Jim McKenney wrote: > Dylan, here's the way I look at this discussion. > > There are people who believe that the answer to these questions is merely > a matter of definition: once the definition of corm is in place, and the > definition of rhizome is in place, then the difference between the two is a > difference in kind. > > On the other hand, there are people (this is my camp) who believe that > what we call typical corms, as in most crocuses, evolved from rhizomes > (remembering that some crocuses produce rhizomes, too),. To this camp, the > corm is simply a much compressed rhizome. Or rather, to interject the > important distinction you made when we discussed this in the past, the corm > is a much compressed modular rhizome. For people in this camp, the > difference between a corm and a rhizome is a difference of degree. > > Those who believe a difference in kind is involved will no doubt insist on > sharp distinctions and, since such distinctions are not characteristic of > the way things happen in nature, will no doubt find themselves involved in > this discussion for a long time. > > Those who believe a difference in degree is involved are probably content > to recognize that while some people might consider a given structure a > corm and other people might consider the same structure a rhizome, the > only fact is that it is what it is regardless of what we call it. > > Dylan, when I read what you wrote "Would you agree that it is important > todiscern structures morphologically as well? I think it is important to > recognize that there is a useful degree of precision-- limited though it > may be-- in defining terms for geophyte rootstocks." > I had to wonder if what you meant when you said "discern structures > morphologically" was that things which look alike (structures discerned > morphologically). even when they are analogous rather than homologous > structures, deserve the same useful degree of precision of definition > routinely given to homologous structures. If that is what you meant, I > think I would disagree for at least two reasons. For one, if the structures > in question are analogous rather than homologous, then the distinctions > between them are on the level of importance of the level of the > distinctions to be made between insect wings and bird wings. Yes, it is > important to learn the basic distinction (your limited useful degree of > precision), but is it really worth a lot of discussion? The other reason is > this: a system based on analogous distinctions will always be in tension > with one based on homologous distinctions; and since most people will > recognize the homologous distinctions to > be more natural than the analogous distinctions, the system of analogous > distinctions will suffer a constant attrition as more and more people come > to understand the homologous distinctions. > > I can't believe I wrote that on such a beautiful spring day! I need some > sunshine. > > > Jim McKenney > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- "*Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.*" ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton From fatsia1234-pbs1@yahoo.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1338846213.62287.YahooMailNeo@web120101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: jonathan Subject: Rhodophiala: A Nederland Challege! Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 14:43:33 -0700 (PDT) "L. radiata is a common pass-a-round plant here. I find that it is sensitive to planting depth. Planted at the wrong dept it will take the time to form a new bulb at it's preferred depth before flowering." > > > >Rod, what planting depth works for you?  > > > >Jonathan Lubar >Alachua, Florida  z8b/9a_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > From klazina@orcon.net.nz Mon, 04 Jun 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FCD2F14.1090604@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Lycoris Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2012 09:56:36 +1200 Why not change the subject line? On 5/06/2012 9:43 a.m., jonathan wrote: > "L. radiata is a common pass-a-round plant here. I find that it is sensitive to planting depth. Planted at the wrong dept it will take the time to form a new bulb at it's preferred depth before flowering." >> >> >> Rod, what planting depth works for you? >> >> >> >> Jonathan Lubar >> Alachua, Florida z8b/9a_______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From petersirises@gmail.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 17:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Musa corms Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 00:42:23 +0100 When I split a corm from its apex to base I observe a different anatomy to that I see when I split a rhizome from its tip through it's length. Peter (UK) On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 10:35 PM, Hannon wrote: > Jim, > > Thanks for your reply. > > For us, and the other two growers who care about such things, a corm can be > hypothesized to be a modified rhizome by reduction through evolution. > > From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Musaceae and rhizomes Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 00:19:30 +0000 "I feel very confidant having look at banana rhizomes of all > sorts and read a lot of the literature, that all Musaceae and > Zingiberales have rhizomes. Some are very odd, but so is their > foliage, flowers, leaves etc." In other words, nor in behaviour, habit or looks have they anything to do with bulbs in a very lato sensu, being common herbaceous perennials from miles away. From othonna@gmail.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Musaceae and rhizomes Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 17:23:26 -0700 Alberto-- generally agreed but what about deciduous types like Kaempferia, Costus spectabilis, Curcuma, etc,? On 4 June 2012 17:19, Alberto Castillo wrote: > > "I feel very confidant having look at banana rhizomes of all > > sorts and read a lot of the literature, that all Musaceae and > > Zingiberales have rhizomes. Some are very odd, but so is their > > foliage, flowers, leaves etc." > > In other words, nor in behaviour, habit or looks have they anything to do > with bulbs in a very lato sensu, being common herbaceous perennials from > miles away. > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- "*Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.*" ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Musaceae and rhizomes Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 00:35:09 +0000 The exception rather than the rule in the family. I have another proposal (in good faith, I am not being sarcastic this time). Why do not reconsider the question of time ago of changing the name of Pacific Bulb Society? If it becomes the Pacific Plant Society then it would cover all sorts of plants (which a lot of people posting here seems to amply prefer) and then we can discuss bulbs sensu lato stating what they are without any conflict and confusion with the hundreds of other types of plants that have been mentioned, described, uploaded, advrtsed, etc. since PBS was founded seemingly eons ago. From rbartontx@yahoo.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1338857216.74536.YahooMailNeo@web125604.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Rodney Barton Subject: Lycoris was: Rhodophiala: A Nederland Challege! Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 17:46:56 -0700 (PDT) It's been a while but I think it's in the 3-3.5 in. at the base of the bulb. I usually judge by the remnants of the foliage and plant so that the tops are just below the ground level. R >Rod, what planting depth works for you?  > > > From rbartontx@yahoo.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1338857217.48033.YahooMailNeo@web125604.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Rodney Barton Subject: Lycoris was: Rhodophiala: A Nederland Challege! Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 17:46:57 -0700 (PDT) It's been a while but I think it's in the 3-3.5 in. at the base of the bulb. I usually judge by the remnants of the foliage and plant so that the tops are just below the ground level. R >Rod, what planting depth works for you?  > > > From tim@gingerwoodnursery.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 19:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <2c324b7721b5a427dcf16c4e26b89435.squirrel@www.gingerwoodnursery.com> From: tim@gingerwoodnursery.com Subject: Musaceae and rhizomes Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 19:14:21 -0600 > > The exception rather than the rule in the family. > > There are HUNDREDS of Zingiberaceace spp that are naturally deciduous. All Kaempferia, all Roscoea, all Cautleya, all curcuma, all hemiorchis, all gagnepainia, all stahlianthus, all Caulokaempferia,all cornukaempferia and a few other genera are entirely made up of decidous spp. In addition numerous Globba, Hedychium, Zingiber, Boesenbergia, etc also are also naturally decidous. The family covers a vast area and in regions with pronounced dry seasons it is the rule rather than the exception. The naturally deciduous spp often have storage tubers of some sort in addition to the rhizome, a feature rarely seen in the evergreen spp. Decidous spp become a rarity from extreme southern thailand throughout Malaysian, Indonesia, New Guinea etc, but are very common throughout areas of India, Myanmar, China, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, etc. There are of course many evergreens to be found in these countries as well. Tim Chapman From othonna@gmail.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 19:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Musaceae and rhizomes Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 18:24:51 -0700 Alberto, I would counter that the challenge before the PBS is to help define standards of knowledge for a particular, if ill-defined, group of plants rather than giving up and saying that boundaries are too confounding and should be left vague or abandoned altogether. I may be alone in this view. Other focused plant societies seem to deal with broader inclusiveness without throwing in the towel. The rock garden societies are good examples. But if the society goes about talking bamboo, hellebores or chia pets, it should be disclaimed that they are outside the scope of geophytes that is the mission of the PBS. No harm done. "The views of the author do not necessarily reflect the views of management", etc. Dylan On 4 June 2012 17:35, Alberto Castillo wrote: > > The exception rather than the rule in the family. > > I have another proposal (in good faith, I am not being sarcastic this > time). Why do not reconsider the question of time ago of changing the name > of Pacific Bulb Society? If it becomes the Pacific Plant Society then it > would cover all sorts of plants (which a lot of people posting here seems > to amply prefer) and then we can discuss bulbs sensu lato stating what they > are without any conflict and confusion with the hundreds of other types of > plants that have been mentioned, described, uploaded, advrtsed, etc. since > PBS was founded seemingly eons ago. > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- "*Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.*" ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 19:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Musaceae and rhizomes Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 02:08:44 +0000 It was not long ago that when we saw the enormity of including Xanthorrhoea among bulbs, several members took it hilariously saying we were taking ourselves too seriously by objecting to that. So it seems the scope is vague and foggy enough to treat all sorts of plants as bulbs these days. I consider this plainly giving false and misleading information to beginners that in good faith rely to PBs as the fabulous source of knowledge it has been. From kimcmich@hotmail.com Mon, 04 Jun 2012 22:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: wtb: Haemanthus humilis dwarf Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 21:22:13 -0700 Greetings, I know rareplants has Haemanthus humilis 'dwarf' available, but does anyone know of other sources for seeds, or preferably bulbs, of this type? I will be in Europe in a few weeks - so even sources there could work for me. -| From: Passiflora Cui Subject: Rhodophiala: A Nederland Challege! Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 14:43:03 +0800 Rodney Barton wrote:"Planted at the wrong dept it will take the time to form a new bulb at it's preferred depth before flowering." Dear Rod: The favorable depth of Lycoris radiata is nearly 5cm deep from the ground to the bottom of the bulb, and it's better to expose its mouth over the ground. However, in some places I found L. radiata grows in large and dense colonies with most of their bulbs outside the ground. If you can provide me a personal mailbox, I'll send you the photo of it. Best Passiflora Cui Hefei, Anhui 2012-6-5 From capebulbs@gmail.com Tue, 05 Jun 2012 00:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: Passiflora Cui Subject: Thunia alba, A Bulb-like Orchid Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 14:57:18 +0800 Thunia alba, a bulb-like orchid Passiflora Cui Though it is an orchid, the outgrowth is somewhat like that of Dendrobium. flowers at the top of its stem with large flowers which have pure white petals and yellow lip. It's a fast-growing orchid and its root will pervade the 11.5cm-diametered terra-cotta pot in two months. however, in winter, all the roots will die back with the leaves. And I just cut off the roots and harvested the bare stems like bulbs. The stems formed last year will also withered and could be cut off. They should be potted when the new buds is germinating from the bottom of the old stem. So every spring, the new stems and roots forming, and every winter the roots, leaves and old stems withering, much like some summer-growing bulbs. Passiflora Cui Anhui, Hefei, China 2012.6.5 From petersirises@gmail.com Tue, 05 Jun 2012 03:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: wtb: Haemanthus humilis dwarf Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 10:54:52 +0100 Try Dawie Human (lifestyle seeds), Silver hill seeds, or Cameron McMaster, or you can ask me in 18 months. also see here http://www.facebook.com/groups/Haemanthus/429315967088425/?notif_t=group_activity Peter (UK) On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 5:22 AM, Kipp McMichael wrote: > > Greetings, > I know rareplants has Haemanthus humilis 'dwarf' available, but does > anyone know of other sources for seeds, or preferably bulbs, of this type? > I will be in Europe in a few weeks - so even sources there could work for > me. > -| _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From plantnut@cox.net Tue, 05 Jun 2012 07:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <889EE93F-D111-47C5-8E54-D7B002FBD90B@cox.net> From: Joseph Kraatz Subject: wtb: Haemanthus humilis dwarf Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 06:20:45 -0700 Just as a note. There are some of us who don't use facebook and do not intend to start. Joe, Oceanside On Jun 5, 2012, at 2:54 AM, Peter Taggart wrote: > Try Dawie Human (lifestyle seeds), Silver hill seeds, or Cameron McMaster, > or you can ask me in 18 months. also see here > http://www.facebook.com/groups/Haemanthus/429315967088425/?notif_t=group_activity > Peter (UK) > > On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 5:22 AM, Kipp McMichael wrote: > >> >> Greetings, >> I know rareplants has Haemanthus humilis 'dwarf' available, but does >> anyone know of other sources for seeds, or preferably bulbs, of this type? >> I will be in Europe in a few weeks - so even sources there could work for >> me. >> -|> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From blee811@aol.com Tue, 05 Jun 2012 07:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF113634FC0EE8-2388-EB1@Webmail-d108.sysops.aol.com> From: Bill Lee Subject: Lycoris Planting Challege! Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 09:28:19 -0400 (EDT) Jim, I am planting them in Cincinnati OHio. I have some already so I know tey will do wel here. Thanks for the advice.Ihope to get them in the ground today. Bill Lee -----Original Message----- From: James Waddick To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Tue, Jun 5, 2012 1:07 am Subject: Re: [pbs] Lycoris Planting Challege! >I have a bag of L. squamigera that were dug this past weekend at a farm in Michigan. An expert from MOBOT said they should be plamted righ away with an inch or two of the top left exposed. Bill Lee Dear Bill, You don't say where you are planting them - MI, St. Louis? These should be planted as soon as possible and kept slightly oist until you are ready. Mist the bulbs and keep in cool shaded pot in a zip loc bag for a week or two if needed. Do not allow them o dry out totally. In Zone 5/6 the bulbs should be covered, but just. Keep the op of the bulb at or just below ground level; water well after lanting and then let them be. Hopefully some may bloom this year, et, but they may take 2 or 3 years to settle down and then expect egular annual flowering. L. squamigera is one of the most ccommodating and easiest of the Lycoris in mid-US. Best Jim W. - r. James W. Waddick 871 NW Brostrom Rd. ansas City Missouri 64152-2711 SA h. 816-746-1949 one 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + _______________________________________________ bs mailing list bs@lists.ibiblio.org ttp://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ttp://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From bob.hoel@comcast.net Tue, 05 Jun 2012 08:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <02553D77-086E-499B-B2CB-53A25B77482F@comcast.net> From: Robert Hoel Subject: Crocosmia Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 09:54:52 -0500 Jim, I was given some Crocosmia corms last year that were purchased in a local garden center. I don't have a clue as to the variety. Because I was running out of potted plant space in the greenhouse, I decided to put them in the ground here in the Chicago area (zone 5) and they are coming back. I don't know if that is the result of our mild winter or whether they would have made it anyway. Bob Hoel Elmhurst, IL USA On Jun 4, 2012, at 12:53 PM, pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > From: James Waddick > Subject: [pbs] Crocosmia Q > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > Sorry meant as a private message. Jim W. > > unless some one grows Crocosmia in Zone 4 or 5 From tim@gingerwoodnursery.com Tue, 05 Jun 2012 09:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <56827D21-694C-4A8B-9218-7E05A2B1DB2E@gingerwoodnursery.com> From: Tim Chapman Subject: wtb: Haemanthus humilis dwarf Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 10:11:33 -0500 Kipp, Although the sources listed are very good here is the current availability ( I had just received a list for the McMasters, the others are online) McMasters have seed of two forms of H humilis humilis, no bulbs. Lifestyle Seeds has four forms of H humilis humilis as seeds, and three forms available as bulbs. Silverhill had recently added some spp but they seem to have sold already. Tim Chapman On Jun 4, 2012, at 11:22 PM, Kipp McMichael wrote: > > Greetings, > I know rareplants has Haemanthus humilis 'dwarf' available, but does anyone know of other sources for seeds, or preferably bulbs, From xerantheum@gmail.com Tue, 05 Jun 2012 10:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Musaceae and rhizomes Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 09:17:41 -0700 On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Hannon wrote: > I would counter that the challenge before the PBS is to help define > standards of knowledge for a particular, if ill-defined, group of plants > rather than giving up and saying that boundaries are too confounding and > should be left vague or abandoned altogether. I may be alone in this view. > Dylan, you are definitely not alone on this. I completely agree with you that this one of the challenges before the PBS. Eventually information saved on this List will be incorporated into the wiki, but that is a monumental task and will require a good team with lots of time devoted to it. Otherwise, it may take a person a lifetime to deal with it all. On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Alberto Castillo wrote: > I consider this plainly giving false and misleading information to > beginners that in good faith rely to PBs as the fabulous source of > knowledge it has been. > And the PBS/Wiki will continue to be a great source of knowledge of information on bulbs for many years to come. That is a promise. At the last Board of Directors meeting, Mary Sue reported that in about half a year, more than 600 Wiki pages have been modified both in minor and substantive ways. Nhu From ds429@comcast.net Tue, 05 Jun 2012 13:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <000001cd4355$b5b4f970$211eec50$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific Bulb Society (Special) BX 312 Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 15:59:25 -0400 Dear Members of the Pacific Bulb Society, This is a first-time special offering of a donation that is designated to raise some extra income for the Pacific Bulb Society. From Joe Gray via Jim Waddick:     http://www.hineshort.com/Plant.aspx?code=19841 Growing plants of Crinum x ‘Menehune’.  This is a mostly aquatic crinum that can be grown in a frost-free pool above the water line. Foliage is very dark purple; flowers bright pink. An actively clumping variety, it also does well in a pot set in a dish with an inch or two of water. Grows to 2 ft. These plants were generously donated by Hines Horticultural to PBS. 17 small bulbs  (1 – 1.5 cm diameter)      ****************   $5.00 each + $5.35 priority mail shipping 3 large bulbs (3 – 4 cm diameter) with offsets   *****************************  $10.00 each + $5.35 priority mail shipping One bulb per person. Cannot ship out of the United States because of bulk and fragility. If you are interested in obtaining one of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 312" in the subject line.         It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your bulb you will find, included with it, a statement of how much money (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; )no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer.      Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org ....          If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds.             I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! Thank you, Joe and Jim !! From santoury@aol.com Tue, 05 Jun 2012 14:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF11755C05EA1D-E14-415F@webmail-m145.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Pacific Bulb Society (Special) BX 312 CRINUM MENEHUNE Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 17:00:23 -0400 (EDT) Is this the same as the one that was offered a couple of BX's ago ? If not, how are they different? From dkramb@badbear.com Tue, 05 Jun 2012 14:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Pacific Bulb Society (Special) BX 312 CRINUM MENEHUNE Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 17:09:37 -0400 I'm guessing they're the same thing. The names are identical, and the description of the earlier BX offering matches the plant in photo shown in the link on the new offering. But... as I said... I'm guessing. I don't know how you can know for certain since two separate donors submitted the material. Dennis in Cincy On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 5:00 PM, The Silent Seed wrote: > > > Is this the same as the one that was offered a couple of BX's ago ? If not, how are they different? > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ds429@comcast.net Tue, 05 Jun 2012 15:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1129217867.580566.1338932711428.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: Pacific Bulb Society (Special) BX 312 CRINUM MENEHUNE Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 21:45:11 +0000 (UTC) It's the same one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Silent Seed" To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 5:00:23 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society (Special)  BX 312  CRINUM MENEHUNE Is this the same as the one that was offered a couple of BX's ago ? If not, how are they different?   _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From avbeek1@hotmail.com Wed, 06 Jun 2012 02:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: a vbeek Subject: Pacific Bulb Society (Special) BX 312 Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 08:27:55 +0000 Bad luck I don't live in the US. But still many thanks for Joe and Jim for this donation. And happy gardening for everybody receiving one of those bulbs. > Growing plants of Crinum x ‘Menehune’. This is a mostly aquatic crinum that > > One bulb per person. Cannot ship out of the United States because of bulk > and fragility. > Aad From richrd@nas.com Wed, 06 Jun 2012 21:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1E168BC9-9307-4725-A104-17E59D3F0E4C@nas.com> From: Richard Subject: blooming today Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 21:14:38 -0700 Blooming today in wild near Leavenworth, Washington Veratrum californicum http://flic.kr/p/ccfiJ7 Lilium columbianum http://flic.kr/p/ccfjhf Calochortus lyallii http://flic.kr/p/ccfi8A Weather is still cool on the east side of the cascades. These and other flowers in bloom, a beautiful day. Rich Haard From clayton3120@cablespeed.com Wed, 06 Jun 2012 23:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: clayton3120 clayton3120 Subject: blooming today Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 22:30:52 -0700 Did you catch the Lewisia tweedyii blooming on the hillsides? On 6/6/12, Richard wrote: > Blooming today in wild near Leavenworth, Washington > > Veratrum californicum > http://flic.kr/p/ccfiJ7 > Lilium columbianum > http://flic.kr/p/ccfjhf > Calochortus lyallii > http://flic.kr/p/ccfi8A > > Weather is still cool on the east side of the cascades. These and other > flowers in bloom, a beautiful day. > > Rich Haard > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jmsjon664@aol.com Thu, 07 Jun 2012 13:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF1300724B058D-23C8-37F3@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> From: "James L. Jones" Subject: New book Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 16:08:32 -0400 (EDT) I have written a book, Fall and WinterBloom in the Solar Greenhouse, that may be of interest to society members. The book presentsdetailed information on operating a greenhouse that is heated by the sun aloneand on choosing a satisfying array of off-season bloomers that do well underits conditions, inevitably including many geophytes. The information it contains is based on 25 years of observationand enjoyment in my own structure. It is self-published through CreateSpace.comand is now available from www.Amazon.com. Jim Jones (James L. Jones) From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu, 07 Jun 2012 14:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <7F0FF79B-4DAF-4082-A2CC-6AE298681A5F@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: New book Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 13:29:31 -0700 How applicable would your information be to those of us who rarely see the sun in winter? My unheated greenhouse manages to keep itself frost-free but if the sun does come out, the temperature may go up only a degree or two. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada cool mediterranean climate moderate dry summers, moderate rainy winters 68 cm rain (27 in) On 7-Jun-12, at 1:08 PM, James L. Jones wrote: > The book presents detailed information on operating a greenhouse > that is heated by the sun alone and on choosing a satisfying array > of off-season bloomers that do well under its conditions, From jmsjon664@aol.com Thu, 07 Jun 2012 18:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF132B49E268C8-23C8-4ED3@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> From: "James L. Jones" Subject: New book Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 21:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Hi Diane, I'm sure I get more sun in winter than you do but of course it gets much colder here. To deal with that I have a large (300 gallons) tub of water as a heat sink; also, the greenhouse is attached to the south side of the house. In any case, it only goes down to freezing but not below, except near the glass. For you I would think a greater concern would too little light for growth, bad for geophytes but no problem for summer-growering winter-bloomers like camellia and cymbidium. A fair number of the species I describe fall into this category. I hope that helps, and I'll be interested in further thoughts. Jim Jones -----Original Message----- From: Diane Whitehead To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:37 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] New book How applicable would your information be to those of us who rarely see the sun in winter? My unheated greenhouse manages to keep itself frost-free but if the sun does come out, the temperature may go up only a degree or two. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada cool mediterranean climate moderate dry summers, moderate rainy winters 68 cm rain (27 in) On 7-Jun-12, at 1:08 PM, James L. Jones wrote: > The book presents detailed information on operating a greenhouse > that is heated by the sun alone and on choosing a satisfying array > of off-season bloomers that do well under its conditions, From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Thu, 07 Jun 2012 19:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: New book Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2012 02:36:36 +0100 jmsjon664@aol.com wrote: > I hope that helps, and I'll be interested in further thoughts. There was a discussion here: http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=6382.35 which discussed keeping greenhouses warm in Winter. Diane contributed to it. David Pilling From silkie@frontiernet.net Thu, 07 Jun 2012 19:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <07f901cd4519$c7919c00$56b4d400$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: New book Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 18:55:27 -0700 Where are you located? Colleen NE Calif -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James L. Jones Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 6:15 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] New book Hi Diane, I'm sure I get more sun in winter than you do but of course it gets much colder here. To deal with that I have a large (300 gallons) tub of water as a heat sink; also, the greenhouse is attached to the south side of the house. In any case, it only goes down to freezing but not below, except near the glass. For you I would think a greater concern would too little light for growth, bad for geophytes but no problem for summer-growering winter-bloomers like camellia and cymbidium. A fair number of the species I describe fall into this category. I hope that helps, and I'll be interested in further thoughts. Jim Jones -----Original Message----- From: Diane Whitehead To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:37 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] New book How applicable would your information be to those of us who rarely see the sun in winter? My unheated greenhouse manages to keep itself frost-free but if the sun does come out, the temperature may go up only a degree or two. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada cool mediterranean climate moderate dry summers, moderate rainy winters 68 cm rain (27 in) On 7-Jun-12, at 1:08 PM, James L. Jones wrote: > The book presents detailed information on operating a greenhouse that > is heated by the sun alone and on choosing a satisfying array of > off-season bloomers that do well under its conditions, From ds429@comcast.net Fri, 08 Jun 2012 09:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <000001cd4591$7b64f200$722ed600$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 313 Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 12:12:19 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 313" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/ share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Gordon Julian: (SEEDS) 1. Allium christophii 2. Arthropodium candidum 'Bronze' 3. Arum creticum 4. Arum purpureospathum 5. Babiana stricta hybrids 6. Colchicum corsicum 7. Cyclamen coum ex CSE 8. Cyclamen graecum 9. Cyclamen hederifolium 10. Cyclamen libanoticum 11. Cyclamen persicum 12. Cyclamen purpurascens 13. Dierama pulcherrimum purple form 14. Dierama trichorrhizum 15. Fritillaria acmopetala 16. Fritillaria affinis 17. Fritillaria biflora 18. Galtonia candicans 19. Galtonia regalis 20. Gladiolus carneus 21. Gladiolus geardii 22. Gladiolus oppositiflorus ssp.salmonoides 23. Gladiolus tristis 23. Tigridia pavonia mixed 24. Veltheimia bracteata, soft pink color From Dave Boucher: (SEEDS) 25. Griffinia espiritensis var. espiritensis 26. Hippeastrum brasilianum Thank you, Gordon and Dave !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From john.bartlett72@yahoo.com Fri, 08 Jun 2012 10:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1339173097.39038.YahooMailNeo@web120005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: John bartlett Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 313 Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 09:31:37 -0700 (PDT) Dear Mr. Sherk- From BX313 please send me, if available, Nos: 07, 08, 10, 12, 25, 26, one packet of each.  Thanks, John Bartlett ________________________________ From: Dell Sherk To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Sent: Friday, June 8, 2012 12:12 PM Subject: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society BX 313 Dear All,       The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared.   If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 313" in the subject line.         Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/ share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS.     Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org ....         If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds.             I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Gordon Julian: (SEEDS) 1. Allium christophii 2. Arthropodium candidum 'Bronze' 3. Arum creticum 4. Arum purpureospathum 5. Babiana stricta hybrids 6. Colchicum corsicum 7. Cyclamen coum ex CSE 8. Cyclamen graecum 9. Cyclamen hederifolium 10. Cyclamen libanoticum 11. Cyclamen persicum 12. Cyclamen purpurascens 13. Dierama pulcherrimum purple form 14. Dierama trichorrhizum 15. Fritillaria acmopetala 16. Fritillaria affinis 17. Fritillaria biflora 18. Galtonia candicans 19. Galtonia regalis 20. Gladiolus carneus 21. Gladiolus geardii 22. Gladiolus oppositiflorus ssp.salmonoides 23. Gladiolus tristis 23. Tigridia pavonia mixed 24. Veltheimia bracteata, soft pink color From Dave Boucher: (SEEDS) 25. Griffinia espiritensis var. espiritensis 26. Hippeastrum brasilianum Thank you, Gordon and Dave !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From ton1.wijnen@planet.nl Fri, 08 Jun 2012 11:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Ton Wijnen" Subject: e-mailadress Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 20:02:31 +0200 Hallo Does any one knows the emailadress from Kevin Preuss? Or how I can contact him? Thank you very much Kind regards Ton Wijnen From ds429@comcast.net Fri, 08 Jun 2012 11:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1910906106.732573.1339178892753.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 313 Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 18:08:12 +0000 (UTC) I have received your order.   Best wishes, Dell   Dell Sherk, PBS BX ----- Original Message ----- From: "John bartlett" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, June 8, 2012 12:31:37 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society BX 313 Dear Mr. Sherk- From BX313 please send me, if available, Nos: 07, 08, 10, 12, 25, 26, one packet of each.  Thanks, John Bartlett ________________________________  From: Dell Sherk To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Sent: Friday, June 8, 2012 12:12 PM Subject: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society BX 313   Dear All,        The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared.   If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 313" in the subject line.         Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/ share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS.      Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org ....          If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds.             I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! >From Gordon Julian: (SEEDS) 1. Allium christophii 2. Arthropodium candidum 'Bronze' 3. Arum creticum 4. Arum purpureospathum 5. Babiana stricta hybrids 6. Colchicum corsicum 7. Cyclamen coum ex CSE 8. Cyclamen graecum 9. Cyclamen hederifolium 10. Cyclamen libanoticum 11. Cyclamen persicum 12. Cyclamen purpurascens 13. Dierama pulcherrimum purple form 14. Dierama trichorrhizum 15. Fritillaria acmopetala 16. Fritillaria affinis 17. Fritillaria biflora 18. Galtonia candicans 19. Galtonia regalis 20. Gladiolus carneus 21. Gladiolus geardii 22. Gladiolus oppositiflorus ssp.salmonoides 23. Gladiolus tristis 23. Tigridia pavonia mixed 24. Veltheimia bracteata, soft pink color >From Dave Boucher: (SEEDS) 25. Griffinia espiritensis var. espiritensis 26. Hippeastrum brasilianum Thank you, Gordon and Dave !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jmsjon664@aol.com Fri, 08 Jun 2012 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF13BFA3758B7C-23C8-888A@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> From: "James L. Jones" Subject: New book Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 14:57:08 -0400 (EDT) Hi David, Thanks for link -- very interesting and encouraging. What I missed though was any mention of water as the consummate heat storage mechanism. Jim -----Original Message----- From: pbs To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Thu, Jun 7, 2012 9:43 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] New book jmsjon664@aol.com wrote: > I hope that helps, and I'll be interested in further thoughts. There was a discussion here: http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=6382.35 which discussed keeping greenhouses warm in Winter. Diane contributed to it. David Pilling From jmsjon664@aol.com Fri, 08 Jun 2012 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF13C0528BD9C4-23C8-890C@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> From: "James L. Jones" Subject: New book Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 15:02:03 -0400 (EDT) Hi Colleen, I'm in Lexington, MA, with just a hint of ocean effect. Usually a fair amount of sun in January; lowest temp -13oF. Jim -----Original Message----- From: Colleen To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Sent: Thu, Jun 7, 2012 9:55 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] New book Where are you located? Colleen NE Calif -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James L. Jones Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 6:15 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] New book Hi Diane, I'm sure I get more sun in winter than you do but of course it gets much colder here. To deal with that I have a large (300 gallons) tub of water as a heat sink; also, the greenhouse is attached to the south side of the house. In any case, it only goes down to freezing but not below, except near the glass. For you I would think a greater concern would too little light for growth, bad for geophytes but no problem for summer-growering winter-bloomers like camellia and cymbidium. A fair number of the species I describe fall into this category. I hope that helps, and I'll be interested in further thoughts. Jim Jones -----Original Message----- From: Diane Whitehead To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:37 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] New book How applicable would your information be to those of us who rarely see the sun in winter? My unheated greenhouse manages to keep itself frost-free but if the sun does come out, the temperature may go up only a degree or two. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada cool mediterranean climate moderate dry summers, moderate rainy winters 68 cm rain (27 in) On 7-Jun-12, at 1:08 PM, James L. Jones wrote: > The book presents detailed information on operating a greenhouse that > is heated by the sun alone and on choosing a satisfying array of > off-season bloomers that do well under its conditions, From dkramb@badbear.com Sat, 09 Jun 2012 08:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: OT: mystery plant, not a geophyte Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 10:36:47 -0400 This plant arrived in my terrarium as a hitchhiker a couple years ago, and I still have no idea what it is. It blooms on tall stems over beautifully variegated foliage. It self seeds, as you can see by the numerous seedlings throughout the center & top of the photo. http://www.badbear.com/dkramb/P6090001.JPG http://www.badbear.com/dkramb/P6090001-flower.jpg Any ideas? Dennis in Cincinnati From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat, 09 Jun 2012 08:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: OT: mystery plant, not a geophyte Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 14:54:34 +0000 Dennis, that terrarium looks terrific. Can you send other images of the plants groupings? From eez55@earthlink.net Sat, 09 Jun 2012 10:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <9508876.1339260158270.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Eugene Zielinski Subject: OT: mystery plant, not a geophyte Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 10:42:37 -0600 (GMT-06:00) I have to agree with Alberto's assessment. I may have to start a tropical terrarium of my own. The "hitchhiker" plant looks like a Ruellia (Acanthus family) of some sort. Eugene Zielinski (formerly of) Augusta, GA now in Rapid City, SD -----Original Message----- >From: Alberto Castillo >Sent: Jun 9, 2012 8:54 AM >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: Re: [pbs] OT: mystery plant, not a geophyte > > >Dennis, that terrarium looks terrific. Can you send other images of the plants groupings? > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From othonna@gmail.com Sat, 09 Jun 2012 10:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: OT: mystery plant, not a geophyte Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 10:06:08 -0700 It is a species of Chamaeranthemum, perhaps C. gaudichaudii (Acanthaceae). On 9 June 2012 07:36, Dennis Kramb wrote: > This plant arrived in my terrarium as a hitchhiker a couple years ago, > and I still have no idea what it is. It blooms on tall stems over > beautifully variegated foliage. It self seeds, as you can see by the > numerous seedlings throughout the center & top of the photo. > > http://www.badbear.com/dkramb/P6090001.JPG > http://www.badbear.com/dkramb/P6090001-flower.jpg > > Any ideas? > Dennis in Cincinnati > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- "*Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.*" ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat, 09 Jun 2012 10:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: OT: mystery plant, not a geophyte Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 17:10:06 +0000 Dennis always introduce uncommon and interesting plants in his postings. From pslate22@yahoo.com Sat, 09 Jun 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1339262244.33150.YahooMailNeo@web111920.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> From: Pamela Slate Subject: (no subject) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 10:17:24 -0700 (PDT) http://weareendlessjoy.com/wp-content/themes/autofocus/bkrlgf.html?ncbb=qk.ffxjff&nkn=cn.kk&jc=pagm From thegardenguru@yahoo.com Sat, 09 Jun 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1339262315.53673.YahooMailClassic@web45813.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> From: Joseph Seals Subject: (no subject) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 10:18:35 -0700 (PDT) Looks like Pamela's ben hacked and this is spam. Joseph SealsConsultantArroyo Grande, CaliforniaCell: 805-823-5696 New book: "Central Coast Gardening Essentials"more info at: www.centralcoastkitchenandgarden.com  --- On Sat, 6/9/12, Pamela Slate wrote: From: Pamela Slate Subject: [pbs] (no subject) To: Sleepwboss@aol.com, elranchorelollo@qwest.net, helen@rainbowgardensbookshop.com, ds28@cornell.edu, pbs@lists.ibiblio.org, vicm527@verizon.net, ffeditorial@hotmail.com, jacobsonrd@gmail.com Date: Saturday, June 9, 2012, 10:17 AM http://weareendlessjoy.com/wp-content/themes/autofocus/bkrlgf.html?ncbb=qk.ffxjff&nkn=cn.kk&jc=pagm From jacobknecht@gmail.com Sat, 09 Jun 2012 12:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jacob Knecht Subject: latest wiki addition: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 11:47:28 -0700 Greetings geophyte lovers, Nhu and I enjoyed the first blooming of Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum in April this year. We had no idea what to expect since no pictures exist on-line or in any of our books of this species' flowers. They really charmed us with their blushing, sparkly faces and impressive number of blooms for such a tiny bulb. They open sequentially on what appeared to be a branched inflorescence, though I confess that I examine them very closely to be sure. I added this species to the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanOrnithogalum#adseptentrionesvergentulum For higher resolution photos, see: http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/7168487533/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/7353693078/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/7353695448/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/7353690658/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/7296064308/ In our experience growing this species in Berkeley, California, its leaves haven't demonstrated quite so much determination to lean in a single direction. For more information and to see some truly beautiful habitat shots of this species do check out Charles Craib's article on this species: http://www.penroc.co.za/newsletters2008/julyaug08/julyaug08.htm . Charles Craib died earlier this year and his passing is a huge loss for the plants he studied, wrote about and propagated so brilliantly. Unfortunately after his death many of his plants were stolen. Aloha, Jacob Knecht Berkeley, California From santoury@aol.com Sat, 09 Jun 2012 12:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF1487E542BEBA-710-BDC8@webmail-m078.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: latest wiki addition: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 14:50:38 -0400 (EDT) Lovely! Thank you for sharing! ______________________________________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you want to receive my plant newsletters via email? santoury@aol.com The Silent Seed - Rare and Unusual Plants ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Jacob Knecht To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sat, Jun 9, 2012 2:48 pm Subject: [pbs] latest wiki addition: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Greetings geophyte lovers, Nhu and I enjoyed the first blooming of Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum in April this year. We had no idea what to expect since no pictures exist on-line or in any of our books of this species' flowers. They really charmed us with their blushing, sparkly faces and impressive number of blooms for such a tiny bulb. They open sequentially on what appeared to be a branched inflorescence, though I confess that I examine them very closely to be sure. I added this species to the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanOrnithogalum#adseptentrionesvergentulum For higher resolution photos, see: http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/7168487533/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/7353693078/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/7353695448/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/7353690658/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/7296064308/ In our experience growing this species in Berkeley, California, its leaves haven't demonstrated quite so much determination to lean in a single direction. For more information and to see some truly beautiful habitat shots of this species do check out Charles Craib's article on this species: http://www.penroc.co.za/newsletters2008/julyaug08/julyaug08.htm . Charles Craib died earlier this year and his passing is a huge loss for the plants he studied, wrote about and propagated so brilliantly. Unfortunately after his death many of his plants were stolen. Aloha, Jacob Knecht Berkeley, California From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat, 09 Jun 2012 12:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: latest wiki addition: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 18:51:02 +0000 Jacob, in your opinion, which is the advantage of using this grotesquely long and complex names? From loujost@yahoo.com Sat, 09 Jun 2012 12:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: <1339267958.36787.YahooMailClassic@web120502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: lou jost Subject: OT: mystery plant, not a geophyte Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 11:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Seems to be a gesneriad of some kind. From jacobknecht@gmail.com Sat, 09 Jun 2012 12:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jacob Knecht Subject: latest wiki addition: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 11:59:16 -0700 On 9 June 2012 11:51, Alberto Castillo wrote: > > Jacob, in your opinion, which is the advantage of using this grotesquely > long and complex names? > > I don't have much of an opinion on this, and of course I am not a taxonomist. I have a background in Hawaiian and Maori language, so long words aren't cumbersome to me. From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat, 09 Jun 2012 12:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: latest wiki addition: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 19:03:26 +0000 Thanks, sounds like a sensible answer. From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sat, 09 Jun 2012 13:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1620161790.133248.1339272462401.JavaMail.www@wwinf1h16> From: Mark BROWN Subject: latest wiki addition: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 22:07:42 +0200 (CEST) Dear Jacob, I am fascinated that this has a branched inflorescence.I wonder were it will be placed in the evolution of the genus? Is it a throw-back or a relict species? A beautiful soft brown sparkly flower at any rate! Mark "Message du 09/06/12 20:48 > De : "Jacob Knecht" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum They open sequentially on what appeared to be a branched inflorescence, though I > confess that I examine them very closely to be sure. " _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jacobknecht@gmail.com Sat, 09 Jun 2012 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jacob Knecht Subject: latest wiki addition: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 13:46:52 -0700 Hi Mark, Thank you. I made a mistake when typing the original message. The inflorescence appeared to be branched but I didn't examine it very closely to be sure if it was. The photos do seem to show a possible branching structure. Jacob On 9 June 2012 13:07, Mark BROWN wrote: > > Dear Jacob, > > I am fascinated that this has a branched inflorescence.I wonder were it > will be placed in the evolution of the genus? > Is it a throw-back or a relict species? > > A beautiful soft brown sparkly flower at any rate! > > Mark > > > > > > "Message du 09/06/12 20:48 > > De : "Jacob Knecht" > > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > > Copie à : > > Objet : Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum > They open sequentially on what appeared to be a branched inflorescence, > though I > > confess that I examine them very closely to be sure. " > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From tim@gingerwoodnursery.com Sat, 09 Jun 2012 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <5364074F-E1D4-463C-B5E7-E48D24A317C6@gingerwoodnursery.com> From: Tim Chapman Subject: latest wiki addition: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 16:01:17 -0500 I have seen a few photos of the inflor. and foliage. In the ones I've seen there was no branching habit. This is however based on 1 specimen of a friend's. Tim Chapman On Jun 9, 2012, at 3:46 PM, Jacob Knecht wrote: > Hi Mark, > > Thank you. I made a mistake when typing the original message. The > inflorescence appeared to be branched but I didn't examine it very closely > to be sure if it was. The photos do seem to show a possible branching > structure. > > Jacob > > > > On 9 June 2012 13:07, Mark BROWN wrote: > >> >> Dear Jacob, >> >> I am fascinated that this has a branched inflorescence.I wonder were it >> will be placed in the evolution of the genus? >> Is it a throw-back or a relict species? >> >> A beautiful soft brown sparkly flower at any rate! >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> >> >> "Message du 09/06/12 20:48 >>> De : "Jacob Knecht" >>> A : "Pacific Bulb Society" >>> Copie à : >>> Objet : Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum >> They open sequentially on what appeared to be a branched inflorescence, >> though I >>> confess that I examine them very closely to be sure. " >> _______________________________________________ >> _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From arnold140@verizon.net Sat, 09 Jun 2012 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <14429087.1102203.1339275959013.JavaMail.root@vznit170126> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2012 16:05:58 -0500 (CDT) Interesting. Any speculation on the derivation of the name. Arnold From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat, 09 Jun 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 21:32:09 +0000 roughly it translates: "why making it easy if we can make it complicated" > Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 16:05:58 -0500 > From: arnold140@verizon.net > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [pbs] Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum > > Interesting. > > Any speculation on the derivation of the name. > > Arnold > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From arnold140@verizon.net Sat, 09 Jun 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <19410732.1103753.1339277922026.JavaMail.root@vznit170126> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2012 16:38:41 -0500 (CDT) Alberto: Thanks, reminds me of the famous Charley Mingus quote: " It is very easy to complicate the simple, but difficult to simplify the complicated" Arnold On 06/09/12, Alberto Castillo wrote: roughly it translates: "why making it easy if we can make it complicated" > Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 16:05:58 -0500 > From: arnold140@verizon.net > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [pbs] Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum > > Interesting. > > Any speculation on the derivation of the name. > > Arnold > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sat, 09 Jun 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FD3C97E.7000805@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 10:09:02 +1200 Having no knowledge of this, yet to me it looks more like 2 words joined together. With a break between the s and the v. Ina On 10/06/2012 9:38 a.m., arnold140@verizon.net wrote: > Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat, 09 Jun 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 22:10:12 +0000 There is also this Crinum honoring the Madagascar botanist and of course Albuca c-l-a-n-w-i-l-l-i-a-m-i-g-l-o-r-i-a From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat, 09 Jun 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 22:16:20 +0000 It could translate as north of the short bend or north of the little end of the road Perhaps our expert Jane could clarify this further. From idavide@sbcglobal.net Sat, 09 Jun 2012 16:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1339280758.24733.YahooMailRC@web184410.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 15:25:58 -0700 (PDT) I take it to mean little (plant) that bends to the north.  By the way, what does Ornithogalum (bird-milk?) come from Also, Alberto, how often does one have a chance to complain about a sesquipedalian specific epithet?  For that matter, haow often does one have the chance to use the word sesquipedalian? David E. ________________________________ From: Alberto Castillo To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sat, June 9, 2012 3:16:33 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum It could translate as north of the short bend or north of the little end of the road Perhaps our expert Jane could clarify this further.                         From arnold140@verizon.net Sat, 09 Jun 2012 16:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <15917925.1106466.1339281330592.JavaMail.root@vznit170126> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2012 17:35:30 -0500 (CDT) Rare plants say: A very rare species, described only in 1996. It remains barely known. The Latin name translates as ?the little chap inclined towards the north? and refers to the fact that the leaves usually point north. Arnold On 06/09/12, David Ehrlich wrote: I take it to mean little (plant) that bends to the north. By the way, what does Ornithogalum (bird-milk?) come from Also, Alberto, how often does one have a chance to complain about a sesquipedalian specific epithet? For that matter, haow often does one have the chance to use the word sesquipedalian? David E. ________________________________ From: Alberto Castillo To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sat, June 9, 2012 3:16:33 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum It could translate as north of the short bend or north of the little end of the road Perhaps our expert Jane could clarify this further. From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat, 09 Jun 2012 16:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 22:37:59 +0000 Good for David. > Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 17:35:30 -0500 > From: arnold140@verizon.net > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum > > Rare plants say: > > > > > A very rare species, described only in 1996. It remains barely known. The Latin name translates as ?the little chap inclined towards the north? and refers to the fact that the leaves usually point north. > > > > > > Arnold > > > > On 06/09/12, David Ehrlich wrote: > > I take it to mean little (plant) that bends to the north. By the way, what does > Ornithogalum (bird-milk?) come from > > Also, Alberto, how often does one have a chance to complain about a > sesquipedalian specific epithet? For that matter, haow often does one have the > chance to use the word sesquipedalian? > > David E. > > ________________________________ > From: Alberto Castillo > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: Sat, June 9, 2012 3:16:33 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum > > > It could translate as > > north of the short bend > > or north of the little end of the road > > Perhaps our expert Jane could clarify this further. > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From tglavich@sbcglobal.net Sat, 09 Jun 2012 19:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1339290788.7283.YahooMailRC@web181403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Thomas Glavich Subject: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 18:13:08 -0700 (PDT) Little chap who looks at the Seven sisters. It blooms when the Pleiades are overhead. ----- Original Message ---- From: "arnold140@verizon.net" To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Sat, June 9, 2012 2:06:05 PM Subject: [pbs] Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Interesting. Any speculation on the derivation of the name. Arnold From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat, 09 Jun 2012 19:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 01:40:00 +0000 Little chap that retains the herbarium vouchers for decades? From othonna@gmail.com Sat, 09 Jun 2012 20:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: OT: mystery plant, not a geophyte Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 19:19:47 -0700 Dennis, Here is a photo of Chamaeranthemum gauduchaudii (Acatnthaceae): http://www.gardenworldimages.com/Details.aspx?ID=102922&TypeID=1 Probably in your terrarium or as a houseplant it is quite manageable, but on open benches in beds it can be weedy. The New York Botanical Garden has large solid 'plantings' of it in their conservatory. Dylan From eez55@earthlink.net Sat, 09 Jun 2012 21:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <403979.1339300265628.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Eugene Zielinski Subject: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 21:51:05 -0600 (GMT-06:00) I think they just wanted a name that was larger than the plant itself. Eugene Zielinski Rapid City, SD still in the USA -----Original Message----- >From: Thomas Glavich >Sent: Jun 9, 2012 7:13 PM >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: Re: [pbs] Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum > >Little chap who looks at the Seven sisters. It blooms when the Pleiades are >overhead. > > > >----- Original Message ---- >From: "arnold140@verizon.net" >To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >Sent: Sat, June 9, 2012 2:06:05 PM >Subject: [pbs] Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum > >Interesting. > >Any speculation on the derivation of the name. > >Arnold > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From msittner@mcn.org Sat, 09 Jun 2012 22:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <20120610043436.8F2C5E8AB5@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: latest wiki addition: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2012 21:31:46 -0700 Hi, I remember reading more about this plant in the excellent IBSA bulletin. The reference is: http://www.safricanbulbs.org.za/images/bulletins/bulletin_2008.pdf Look at pages 3-4. Mary Sue From d.mueller-doblies@gmx.de Sun, 10 Jun 2012 01:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FD450E4.1050300@gmx.de> From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Dietrich_M=FCller-Doblies?= Subject: latest wiki addition: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 09:46:44 +0200 Greetings B*o*lbophili, I enjoyed very much your Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum pictures and especially your great success of its first flowering. May I ask my great question: Can you spot its exact geographic origin? Is it from a new quarter degree square? Aloha, Dietrich Am 09.06.2012 20:47, schrieb Jacob Knecht: > Greetings geophyte lovers, > > Nhu and I enjoyed the first blooming of Ornithogalum > adseptentrionesvergentulum in April this year. We had no idea what to > expect since no pictures exist on-line or in any of our books of this > species' flowers. They really charmed us with their blushing, sparkly > faces and impressive number of blooms for such a tiny bulb. They open > sequentially on what appeared to be a branched inflorescence, though I > confess that I examine them very closely to be sure. I added this species > to the wiki: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanOrnithogalum#adseptentrionesvergentulum > > For higher resolution photos, see: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/7168487533/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/7353693078/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/7353695448/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/7353690658/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/7296064308/ > > In our experience growing this species in Berkeley, California, its leaves > haven't demonstrated quite so much determination to lean in a single > direction. For more information and to see some truly beautiful habitat > shots of this species do check out Charles Craib's article on this species: > http://www.penroc.co.za/newsletters2008/julyaug08/julyaug08.htm . > > Charles Craib died earlier this year and his passing is a huge loss for the > plants he studied, wrote about and propagated so brilliantly. > Unfortunately after his death many of his plants were stolen. > > Aloha, > > Jacob Knecht > Berkeley, California > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From xerantheum@gmail.com Sun, 10 Jun 2012 01:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 00:54:28 -0700 I personally think the name is great. It does take a whole lungful of air to say and fills up a whole tag to write, but it's a fun one. I think it takes the record for being the longest epithet. Nhu On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Eugene Zielinski wrote: > I think they just wanted a name that was larger than the plant itself. > From sipos.barna@gmail.com Sun, 10 Jun 2012 02:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <3D2AEFA8-963A-4FC6-9A6C-310070E9DF8B@gmail.com> From: Barna Sipos Subject: Amporphophallus ID needed Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 10:03:12 +0100 Geetings, I took some pictures of two Amorphophallus last week. One is from James Bond Island, Thailand, it was about 30 cm tall. I think that some plants had shiny and some had dull leaf. There were lots of them under the trees near the shore. http://www.flickr.com/photos/18591087@N00/7356937492 The other is a flower stalk only, with the fruits on it. This was taken at Ulu Watu, Bali, in the forest close to the temple. It was about 1.20m tall! Seeds were size of a smaller peanut. http://www.flickr.com/photos/18591087@N00/7171722309 Any ideas about the exact names? Thanks! Barna (HU & UK) From jpsknisely@gmail.com Sun, 10 Jun 2012 05:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jonathan Knisely Subject: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum (nomenclature derivation) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 07:29:57 -0400 Herr Professor Dietrich Muller-Doblies and his wife Ute are almost certainly able to resolve the choice of the name for this species, and perhaps the question should be put to them. A bit of searching on the internet determined that he is on the faculty of the Technische Universität Berlin. I was unable to determine an email address for him by looking on the institution's website, but if he is a communicating author on recent publications, his email address should be part of the contact information available for individuals who wish to reach him. I could not find any recent publications that listed email addresses through the limited searching I was able to conduct. Jonathan Knisely New Haven, CT From othonna@gmail.com Sun, 10 Jun 2012 09:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Amporphophallus ID needed Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 08:59:29 -0700 Barna, The first looks like A. albispathus (wild) and the second is probably A. paeonifolius (commonly cultivated). I recommend the IAS website to learn more about aroids: http://www.aroid.org/genera/generapage.php?genus=amorphophallus Dylan On 10 June 2012 02:03, Barna Sipos wrote: > Geetings, > > I took some pictures of two Amorphophallus last week. > > One is from James Bond Island, Thailand, it was about 30 cm tall. I think > that some plants had shiny and some had dull leaf. > There were lots of them under the trees near the shore. > http://www.flickr.com/photos/18591087@N00/7356937492 > > The other is a flower stalk only, with the fruits on it. This was taken at > Ulu Watu, Bali, in the forest close to the temple. > It was about 1.20m tall! Seeds were size of a smaller peanut. > http://www.flickr.com/photos/18591087@N00/7171722309 > > Any ideas about the exact names? > Thanks! > > Barna (HU & UK) > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- "*Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.*" ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton From ernestwells@mindspring.com Mon, 11 Jun 2012 07:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <2D34A637-579D-4793-88B6-E1B1CA151BD0@mindspring.com> From: Tom Wells Subject: July 8th Symposium at the Huntington Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 10:09:59 -0700 > > > > > On Sunday, July 8, 2012 the North American Clivia Society is sponsoring a symposium, "Clivia Around the World". This one-day event will be held at The Huntington; Library, Art Collections, and Botanical Gardens, 1151 Oxford Road, San Marino, California 91108. Scheduled speakers at the event include Harold Koopowitz on New Zealand Clivia, James Comstock on A Work in Progress, Marilyn Paskert on Japanese Clivia, and David Banks on Australian Clivia. Catered lunch and admission to the Huntington grounds are included in the registration fee of $30.00. Gates open at 10:00am, with activities beginning at 10:30am and concluding around 4:00pm. All registrations must be made and paid for in advance. No registrations will be sold at the door. North American Clivia Society membership is not required. The registrar for the event is Tom Wells. > > Please contact Tom with any questions at ernestwells@mindspring.com. > > > > Note: To purchase a registration go to the North American Clivia Society website and use the link supplied there. > > > > Please print out and bring your PayPal receipt to the event as an admission ticket. As each receipt will act as a single ticket, please buy tickets one at a time in separate PayPal transactions, and place the ticketholder's name in the SHIP TO: box. > > > > Admission tickets cover Lunch and Admission to the Huntington Grounds. > > > From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Sun, 10 Jun 2012 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1339352714.21462.YahooMailNeo@web87406.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:25:14 +0100 (BST) Unless I missed the point in all these messages, I assume it will lean to the south in the northern hemisphere, because it is the sun attracting it, not the magnetic north ;-)   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8'ish From dkramb@badbear.com Sun, 10 Jun 2012 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: OT: mystery plant, not a geophyte Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 15:04:20 -0400 That's amazing! Thanks everyone for the quick ID. The nursery I bought from, did sell Chamaeranthemum gaudichaudii. http://www.blackjungleterrariumsupply.com/Chamaeranthemum-gaudichaudii_p_631.html So it makes sense that it hitchhiked in as a seed... and now I have lots of them! I'm very pleased. The internet does not say much about this species, except that it's native to Brazil. And thanks for the kind words about my terrarium. It's not actually that pretty!! It's kind of dirty and gross. :-) Dennis in Cincinnati (very pleased to have the mystery solved!) From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Sun, 10 Jun 2012 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1339355497.43563.YahooMailNeo@web84517.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 12:11:37 -0700 (PDT) It seems to me that this word adseptentrionesvergentulum is not formed properly. Although the phrase "ad septentriones vergentulum" might make sense in prose,  squashing the separate words together does not form a proper botanical epithet. Botanical epithets may be compound words, but such compounds must follow the rules of forming compound words. The published word adseptentrionesvergentulum does not seem to do so.  If "ad septentriones" is construed as the preposition "ad" followed by they accusative plural of the third declension noun "septentriones", with the implied meaning "to the north", then in this sense the word adseptentrionesvergentuum fails the test for a properly compounded word.  If  "adseptentriones" is construed as a word, an adverb to be specific, then it needs an adverbial ending to indicate its adverbial nature. .  Jim McKenney From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 10 Jun 2012 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: OT: mystery plant, not a geophyte Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:11:37 +0000 So, you are posting photos of someone else's terrarium????????????????? From silkie@frontiernet.net Sun, 10 Jun 2012 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <008f01cd4749$bc7632e0$356298a0$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: New book Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 13:43:47 -0700 Sigh, you live a much milder climate than I. I am always hoping there is a way to really use a greenhouse around here, but haven't hit it yet. Thanks for responding :) Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James L. Jones Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 12:02 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] New book Hi Colleen, I'm in Lexington, MA, with just a hint of ocean effect. Usually a fair amount of sun in January; lowest temp -13oF. Jim -----Original Message----- From: Colleen To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Sent: Thu, Jun 7, 2012 9:55 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] New book Where are you located? Colleen NE Calif -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James L. Jones Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 6:15 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] New book Hi Diane, I'm sure I get more sun in winter than you do but of course it gets much colder here. To deal with that I have a large (300 gallons) tub of water as a heat sink; also, the greenhouse is attached to the south side of the house. In any case, it only goes down to freezing but not below, except near the glass. For you I would think a greater concern would too little light for growth, bad for geophytes but no problem for summer-growering winter-bloomers like camellia and cymbidium. A fair number of the species I describe fall into this category. I hope that helps, and I'll be interested in further thoughts. Jim Jones -----Original Message----- From: Diane Whitehead To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:37 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] New book How applicable would your information be to those of us who rarely see the sun in winter? My unheated greenhouse manages to keep itself frost-free but if the sun does come out, the temperature may go up only a degree or two. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada cool mediterranean climate moderate dry summers, moderate rainy winters 68 cm rain (27 in) On 7-Jun-12, at 1:08 PM, James L. Jones wrote: > The book presents detailed information on operating a greenhouse that > is heated by the sun alone and on choosing a satisfying array of > off-season bloomers that do well under its conditions, From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 10 Jun 2012 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: New book Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:57:52 +0000 Colleen, not even a lean-to one? You have the black painted water filled drums resource, that is excellent, also a crushed rock pit instead of floors, etc. From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Sun, 10 Jun 2012 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1339362262.16641.YahooMailNeo@web84504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: New book Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 14:04:22 -0700 (PDT) Colleen, Jim indicates in his message that he experiences lows of minus thirteen degrees F.  Where in California does it get that cold - on a few mountain tops? I think his climate is,  contrary to what you seem to think,  much colder and harsher than yours.  Am I wrong? Jim McKenney From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun, 10 Jun 2012 16:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Lilium humboldtii ssp ocellatum Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 15:22:52 -0700 Two years ago I bought seed of Lilium humboldtii ssp ocellatum from the Theodore Payne Foundation. Nearly every seed germinated and grew on, and I now have quite a few robust seedlings. I'd like to plant them out this fall, but research has me confused about their preferred habitat. The Payne Foundation's website describes the habitat as clearings in yellow pine forest and chaparral, and emphasizes that the plants should be dry in summer. The text on the PBS wiki says the plants are often found on streamsides. I don't know if the "streams" are seasonal or year-round, however. What can others tell me about this? I'm developing the top of a steep bank in my new garden as a chaparral, or garrigue if you prefer the European term, habitat, with scattered drought-tolerant shrubs such as Arctostaphylos and Cistus spp., punctuated by weathered large rocks from my former (still for sale!) home. The soil is nutrient-poor but well "tilled" by the roots of the Douglas firs that used to grow there. I'm mulching it with small gravel. Among the shrubs I've added some shrubby penstemons and other suitable perennials, and of course bulbs. I wish I could put in some small species tulips, which would look perfect, but I won't buy commercial tulips because of the possibility of spreading viruses to my lilies (I have a lot of others, and I can grow them now that I have no deer and rabbits). If this is a suitable habitat for L. humboldtii, I'd like to plant the young lilies in groups between the shrubs. By the way, don't tell me I can't grow these southern California lilies in Oregon. The new place is in a banana belt, and I am positively reveling in zone denial. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1339374988.97027.YahooMailNeo@web84513.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Lilium humboldtii ssp ocellatum Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 17:36:28 -0700 (PDT) Jane McGary wrote: "By the way, don't tell me I can't grow these southern California lilies in Oregon. The new place is in a banana belt, and I am  positively reveling in zone denial." There is no need to deny your zone, Jane, and Lilium humboldtii ocellatum does not need banana belt conditions. Throughout the early part of the twentieth century this species was grown (from collected bulbs, many doubtless from Carl Purdy) in European and British gardens and in the northeastern states of the US.That it rarely became established had nothing to do with harsh winter conditions, but rather with its need for dry, hot summer conditions.   Lilium humboldtii ocellatum is believed to be the seed parent of  the once famous Bellingham hybrid lilies developed by David Griffiths in Bellingham, Washington between the two world wars (from seed provided by Carl Purdy and thought to be from plants of what at that time was called Lilium humboldtii magnificum - our ocellatum - pollinated by other species). Griffiths raised literally hundreds of thousands of seedlings, and after evaluating those selected a score or so for further propagation. After disposing of the original hundreds of thousands of seedlings (how, I wonder), the selected plants were propagated into their thousands for distribution to the public. They must have been amazingly vigorous.  It's distribution in nature (at least as an elevation blind easterner sees the distribution of California's plants)  is no indication of its cold tolerance.  Jim McKenney From jwickham@sbcglobal.net Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1339375283.6069.YahooMailClassic@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: John Wickham Subject: Lilium humboldtii ssp ocellatum Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 17:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Jane, Funny you should ask. I was just out looking at the population of these lilies where I'd collected the seeds for the Payne Foundation which you later bought. They are definitely stream side, emphasis on side. The stream bed was completely dry, though I have seen a trickle of water there in past seasons. The website information is drawn from the Jepson Manual. The "oak canyons" reference is exactly the site where I saw them. These are steep, narrow draws with a stream bed of maybe 3 feet, Leymus and Artemisia on either side, Rubus occasionally. The canyon starts climbing up and at the toe of that transition, you'll find the Humboldt lilies. Then you get Oaks, Bay Laurel, and Sycamores. Beautiful hike...lots still blooming (no bulbs other than the lilies though): Delphinium, Phacelia, Eriophyllum, Silene, Keckiella, Eriogonum, Mimulus, Clarkia, Lonicera, Adenostema, and Erigeron immediately come back to mind. I have my Humboldt lilies planted in a bed shaded by a Jacaranda and it gets some water throughout the year. Also in the bed are Symphicarpos mollis, Polystichum munitum, Geum macrophyllum, and Holodiscus with Polypodium scouleri, Rosa bridgesii and Heuchera elegans at the front. John --- On Sun, 6/10/12, Jane McGary wrote: From: Jane McGary Subject: [pbs] Lilium humboldtii ssp ocellatum To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Sunday, June 10, 2012, 3:22 PM Two years ago I bought seed of Lilium humboldtii ssp ocellatum from the Theodore Payne Foundation. Nearly every seed germinated and grew on, and I now have quite a few robust seedlings. I'd like to plant them out this fall, but research has me confused about their preferred habitat. The Payne Foundation's website describes the habitat as clearings in yellow pine forest and chaparral, and emphasizes that the plants should be dry in summer. The text on the PBS wiki says the plants are often found on streamsides. I don't know if the "streams" are seasonal or year-round, however. What can others tell me about this? I'm developing the top of a steep bank in my new garden as a chaparral, or garrigue if you prefer the European term, habitat, with scattered drought-tolerant shrubs such as Arctostaphylos and Cistus spp., punctuated by weathered large rocks from my former (still for sale!) home. The soil is nutrient-poor but well "tilled" by the roots of the Douglas firs that used to grow there. I'm mulching it with small gravel. Among the shrubs I've added some shrubby penstemons and other suitable perennials, and of course bulbs. I wish I could put in some small species tulips, which would look perfect, but I won't buy commercial tulips because of the possibility of spreading viruses to my lilies (I have a lot of others, and I can grow them now that I have no deer and rabbits). If this is a suitable habitat for L. humboldtii, I'd like to plant the young lilies in groups between the shrubs. By the way, don't tell me I can't grow these southern California lilies in Oregon. The new place is in a banana belt, and I am positively reveling in zone denial. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1339375609.25224.YahooMailNeo@web84503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Lilium humboldtii ssp ocellatum Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 17:46:49 -0700 (PDT) Jim McKenney wrote (or did he?): "It's distribution in nature (at least..." It's distribution?  Did an autocorrect function do that to me? I'm suing for defamation of character! Jim McKenney From awilson@avonia.com Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <7E3317AB56004009AC4A6FD5A4B459F1@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: Roy Sachs - a longtime member of PBS passed away this week. Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:12:49 -0700 I almost missed this. I am very sad to hear that Roy has passed away. I visited him last over ten years ago. He showed me, in bitterly cold weather, his large plantings of alstroemerias; later that day he showed me in the warmth of his home the friendship I expected and found of the man. We planned some beer drinking when he came next to San Diego. That did not happen and never will but his plants are here, are blooming and growing well. Thank you, Roy! Andrew San Diego From othonna@gmail.com Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Lilium humboldtii ssp ocellatum Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:15:56 -0700 John, If any lily should give us warm (summer) dry climate growers hope for cultivating lilies, L. humboldtii is the one. I collected a few bulbs from a landslide along West Camino Cielo in 1998 and grew them in 'long toms' or citrus pots about 6" wide at the top and 3ft deep. This was in much hotter Claremont and the key seemed to be watering all year round but less in summer. No matter what their natural landscape looks like in the dead of summer-- often deciduous poison oak, parched Artemisia douglasiana, etc.-- their roots have access to some permanent water or moisture source. The colony on Camino Cielo was (and is) growing from a hillside spring. As of this writing the citrus pot-bound plants are still doing well and issue 5-6ft inflorescences each year. I have seen smaller plants, in smaller colonies, in San Diego as well, and not in lush montane habitat but rather a rocky dry streambed with Coast Live Oak canopy at San Vicente Reservoir. These plants were only about 3ft tall but larger plants could be here most likely. I'm not sure if this lily makes it into Mexico but the southern and lower elevation populations would be well worth experimenting with for garden adaptability as well as infraspecific and interspecific breeding. Dylan From totototo@telus.net Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FD4E7DB.3120.E571BAC@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Ornithogalum adseptentrionesvergentulum Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:30:51 -0700 On 10 Jun 2012, at 12:11, Jim McKenney wrote: > It seems to me that this word adseptentrionesvergentulum is not formed > properly. > > Although the phrase "ad septentriones vergentulum" might make sense in > prose,  squashing the separate words together does not form a proper > botanical epithet. I offer Arctostaphylos uva-ursi as a solution. "ad-septentriones-vergentulum" But you are really right. The entire Linnean system of binomials was based on abandoning the former system of long descriptive phrases, and "nodding toward the north" is certainly a descriptive phrase. The upshot may very well be that the next name assigned to this taxon will be the permanent one because this lengthy phrase-jammed-together fails to meet the requirements of the ICBN. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1339378421.37953.YahooMailNeo@web84510.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Lilium humboldtii ssp ocellatum Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Dylan wrote: " I'm not sure if this lilymakes it into Mexico ..." Dylan, do you know if there are any believable records for any indigenous Lilium species in Mexico? Over the years I've seen vague references to the possibility that some forms of Californian Lilium (usually it is L. pardalinum which is mentioned) might exist in Mexican populations. I'm keen to hear about this if such are known to exist, or if now extirpated populations are represented by herbarium material with collection data.  Jim McKenney From othonna@gmail.com Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Lilium humboldtii ssp ocellatum Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:18:27 -0700 Jim, Wiggins (1980) says that no specimens from Baja California have been seen of any Lilium spp., "but there are three that occur in adjacent San Diego Co., California, and any one of these, or all of them, may be discovered in some poorly explored canyon or cienega [spring] in the Sierras Juarez or San Pedro Martir." He provides a key to L. parryi, L. humboldtii var. bloomerianum [a sort of southern form generally disregarded formally] and L. pardalinum. These are not unreasonable suppositions based on what is known of other plants that occur on both sides of the border. The area of the state of Baja California is substantially clothed in Mediterranean vegetation, and the taller mountains there (mentioned above) are an extension of our own Peninsular Ranges. It should be noted that there is currently very intensive botanical exploration ongoing in this part of the world. Most of it is being driven by the San Diego Museum of Natural History, which already has substantial Baja herbarium collections. The original floristic treatment (Wiggins) is inadequate and out of date and a new proper flora is one of the major goals. Maybe other lilies are sneaking down the eastern side of the Sierra Madre? Dylan On 10 June 2012 18:33, Jim McKenney wrote: > Dylan wrote: " I'm not sure if this lilymakes it into Mexico ..." > > Dylan, do you know if there are any believable records for any indigenous > Lilium species in Mexico? Over the years I've seen vague references to the > possibility that some forms of Californian Lilium (usually it is L. > pardalinum which is mentioned) might exist in Mexican populations. I'm keen > to hear about this if such are known to exist, or if now extirpated > populations are represented by herbarium material with collection data. > > Jim McKenney > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- "*Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.*" ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton From silkie@frontiernet.net Mon, 11 Jun 2012 07:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <013301cd47db$c6e097b0$54a1c710$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: New book Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 07:09:11 -0700 Well, I tried water, though not drums full because of door size and I do have a crushed rock floor. Our climate is very unpredictable in these days of change, but two winters ago we were back down to -22F (-30C) and we have gotten to -32F. This year we only came close to 0F. Electricity is quite expensive here so I can't afford a heater that would run 24/7. Ventilation and mold are also a problem with the cold air. Thanks Colleen in NE Calif. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Alberto Castillo Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 1:58 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] New book Colleen, not even a lean-to one? You have the black painted water filled drums resource, that is excellent, also a crushed rock pit instead of floors, etc. From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Mon, 11 Jun 2012 08:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <410-220126111142820421@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: New book Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:28:20 -0400 Our climate is very unpredictable in these days > of change, but two winters ago we were back down to -22F (-30C) and we have > gotten to -32F. On January 20, 1937, the temperature at Boca fell to -45°F (-43°C), the coldest temperature ever recorded in California. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 8a From msittner@mcn.org Mon, 11 Jun 2012 08:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <20120611144716.929CEE8B69@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Gladiolus rufomarginatus Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 07:46:57 -0700 Rod and Rachel Saunders from Silverhill Seeds have a project going where they are helping with a new book to be written on Gladiolus and are locating all they can in Southern Africa and photographing them. Rachel has sent me a picture of one we didn't have on the wiki, Gladiolus rufomarginatus, that is as she said really gorgeous : http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusSeven#rufomarginatus From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon, 11 Jun 2012 08:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1339426324.45106.YahooMailNeo@web84508.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: New book Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 07:52:04 -0700 (PDT) Thanks for that clarification, Colleen. If I ever move to California, I'd better check pretty carefully if I expect to end up in a neighborhood with palm trees and oranges. And Mark, somehow I'm having trouble keeping the words "California" and "minus 45 degrees F" in the same thought. Oh my gosh... minus 45 degrees F:  no wonder the town is now deserted.  Jim McKenney From maxwithers@gmail.com Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FD622A9.3070203@gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: New book Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:54:01 -0700 Jim, If you want to move to "California" make sure you move to the California Floristic Province (including SW Oregon and the part of Baja California where one might discover a lily. NE California is in the Great Basin Floristic Province, with a climate to match. On 6/11/12 7:52 AM, Jim McKenney wrote: > Thanks for that clarification, Colleen. If I ever move to California, I'd better check pretty carefully if I expect to end up in a neighborhood with palm trees and oranges. > > And Mark, somehow I'm having trouble keeping the words "California" and "minus 45 degrees F" in the same thought. Oh my gosh... minus 45 degrees F: no wonder the town is now deserted. From dkramb@badbear.com Mon, 11 Jun 2012 11:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: OT: mystery plant, not a geophyte Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:57:41 -0400 LOL. OK, OK... I'll post some more photos. The Chamaeranthemum is blooming like crazy right now. And one of the Tillandsias is flowering, too. The Pinguicula are not blooming at all. :-( There are no geophytes in the terrarium, so this is very OT. Dennis in Cincinnati On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Alberto Castillo wrote: > > So, you are posting photos of someone else's terrarium????????????????? > From xerantheum@gmail.com Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: help with Kniphofia ID Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 14:17:12 -0700 Hi everyone, I bought this plant as Kniphofia caulescens dwarf form, but I'm thinking it's K. ritualis. Can anyone help me with an ID? http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Kniphofia/Kniphofia_ritualis1NN.jpg http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Kniphofia/Kniphofia_ritualis2NN.jpg Thanks, Nhu From steyrhahn@yahoo.com Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1339451682.39942.YahooMailNeo@web121704.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: "Randy.R" Subject: Question about bx310 Cyrtanthus mackenii for Fred Biasella Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 14:54:42 -0700 (PDT) Fred,   Thanks for submitting the Cyrtanthus mackenii bulbs via Dell.   I've read the wiki on Cyrtanthus mackenii and it says Cyrtanthus mackenii may be deciduous or evergreen. Be winter blooming or summer blooming. Like well draining soil or may be aquatic. May like shade or direct sun. hmm???   Could I have a few pointers on the environment these specific bulbs prefer?   I see from a post last year that they are evergreen and you had them in an 8"clay pot.   Thanks again   Randy R From arlen.jose@verizon.net Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Fred Biasella" Subject: Question about bx310 Cyrtanthus mackenii for Fred Biasella Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 19:22:17 -0400 Hi Randy, Mine have always been evergreen and I do water them all year round as well. I pot them in a mixture similar to that of Clivia only it's a slight bit more moisture retentive. My mixture is ProMix BX as the base then I add de-salinated small coco chips, bark, small charcoal, sharp sand and pumice. They just don't seem to want to go dormant and they flower on cue in January/February (our winter). I hope this helps. Warm Regards, Fred Cambridge (Boston) MA USDA Zone 6B -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Randy.R Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 5:55 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Question about bx310 Cyrtanthus mackenii for Fred Biasella Fred,   Thanks for submitting the Cyrtanthus mackenii bulbs via Dell.   I've read the wiki on Cyrtanthus mackenii and it says Cyrtanthus mackenii may be deciduous or evergreen. Be winter blooming or summer blooming. Like well draining soil or may be aquatic. May like shade or direct sun. hmm???   Could I have a few pointers on the environment these specific bulbs prefer?   I see from a post last year that they are evergreen and you had them in an 8"clay pot.   Thanks again   Randy R From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1339456993.76100.YahooMailNeo@web84504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Manfreda undulata 'Chocolate Chips' Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Manfreda undulata 'Chocolate Chips' is blooming here in Maryland  today. For such a comparatively small plant ( the rosette of foliage is only about a foot across, if that), the inflorescence is a big deal! It's not quite five feet high. The individual flowers are a real surprise: before this plant bloomed, I had seen only M. virginica in bloom (its flowers are nothing to brag about). What makes the flowers of 'Chocolate Chips' so interesting is the length of the filaments of the anthers. These are about four inches long, so each flower is surrounded by a ring about six or more inched in diameter of anthers. With several flowers open at once, the inflorescence occupies the space of a soccer ball or basketball: very cool! Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.021954º North, 77.052102º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com   BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS  Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org   Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org        From TalkingPoints@PlantSoup.Com Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <7F3CE4C0-690E-44EB-B9CF-2CDD0352A64E@PlantSoup.Com> From: Nan Sterman Subject: Manfreda undulata 'Chocolate Chips' Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:54:10 -0700 I've grown the species Manfreda undulata and always thought that the inflorescence looks like a cluster of daddy long legs (aka mosquito hawks)! My husband can't' stand the smell of the flowers in bloom but I can't smell it at all. Jim, does yours have a fragrance? On Jun 11, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: > > > Manfreda undulata 'Chocolate Chips' is blooming here in Maryland today. For such a comparatively small plant ( the rosette of foliage is only about a foot across, if that), the inflorescence is a big deal! It's not quite five feet high. The individual flowers are a real surprise: before this plant bloomed, I had seen only M. virginica in bloom (its flowers are nothing to brag about). What makes the flowers of 'Chocolate Chips' so interesting is the length of the filaments of the anthers. These are about four inches long, so each flower is surrounded by a ring about six or more inched in diameter of anthers. With several flowers open at once, the inflorescence occupies the space of a soccer ball or basketball: very cool! > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.021954º North, 77.052102º West, USDA zone 7 > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com > > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon, 11 Jun 2012 18:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1339461116.79978.YahooMailNeo@web84501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Manfreda undulata 'Chocolate Chips' Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:31:56 -0700 (PDT) Yes, Nan, they do have a fragrance (or if you prefer, an odor). It's hard to describe, but it's pronounced - I caught a whiff of it from inside the house. It reminds me of the smell of very hot metal (as when the water boils out of the tea kettle) or very hot wax or an overheated engine.   Jim McKenney From clayton3120@cablespeed.com Mon, 11 Jun 2012 18:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: clayton3120 clayton3120 Subject: help with Kniphofia ID Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:52:03 -0700 Hi Nhu, Not sure it's ritualis. Mine has a much wider leaf than that. The color looks right tho. I'm sure their are many forms of both species. On 6/11/12, Nhu Nguyen wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I bought this plant as Kniphofia caulescens dwarf form, but I'm thinking > it's K. ritualis. Can anyone help me with an ID? > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Kniphofia/Kniphofia_ritualis1NN.jpg > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Kniphofia/Kniphofia_ritualis2NN.jpg > > Thanks, > Nhu > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon, 11 Jun 2012 19:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: help with Kniphofia ID Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 01:53:36 +0000 Kniphofias are like Dieramas: unless the seed or the seedlings are from a wild origin, they could be anything. They intercross freely. From TalkingPoints@PlantSoup.Com Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nan Sterman Subject: Manfreda undulata 'Chocolate Chips' Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:54:48 -0700 What odd descriptions, Jim! No wonder my husband doesn't like it. I can't smell it at all Nan On Jun 11, 2012, at 5:31 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: > Yes, Nan, they do have a fragrance (or if you prefer, an odor). It's hard to describe, but it's pronounced - I caught a whiff of it from inside the house. It reminds me of the smell of very hot metal (as when the water boils out of the tea kettle) or very hot wax or an overheated engine. > > Jim McKenney > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Tue, 12 Jun 2012 05:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1339503169.61481.YahooMailNeo@web84506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Manfreda undulata 'Chocolate Chips' Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 05:12:49 -0700 (PDT) Not only odd, Nan, but probably not very accurate. I'm usually pretty good with scents, but this one is definitely different. As I was falling asleep last night the scent drifted in through my bedroom window and woke me up. I noticed then that there is also a fermented fruit quality to the scent.  I love your description of the inflorescence  - a cluster of daddy long legs!   But I wonder if what you are calling a daddy long legs is what I call a daddy long legs. A quick check of the wikipedia entry for "mosquito hawk" gave me the answer: your daddy long legs is apparently what I know as a crane fly. My daddy long legs is an arachnid (spider relative) of the order Opiliones. Anyone who has seen either will agree that either describes the inflorescence of this plant well.   Now to invite friends over to see my daddy long legs flower!  Jim McKenney From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Tue, 12 Jun 2012 06:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1593626975.134136.1339504668288.JavaMail.www@wwinf1h21> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Manfreda undulata 'Chocolate Chips' Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:37:48 +0200 (CEST) I wonder if this is a bat pollinated flower then? The ratio of stamen length to pistil seems to preclude hummingbirds and favour bats? Mark " Message du 12/06/12 14:13 > De : "Jim McKenney" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [pbs] Manfreda undulata 'Chocolate Chips' >  I'm usually pretty good with scents, but this one is definitely different. As I was falling asleep last night the scent drifted in through my bedroom window and woke me up. I noticed then that there is also a fermented fruit quality to the scent. " _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Tue, 12 Jun 2012 06:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1339505661.97854.YahooMailNeo@web84501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Manfreda undulata 'Chocolate Chips' Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 05:54:21 -0700 (PDT) Mark, are you a mind reader? I just made an entry in my blog about this plant and came to the same conclusion. Too funny... Jim McKenney From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Tue, 12 Jun 2012 06:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <2034839338.165277.1339506977612.JavaMail.www@wwinf1m35> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Manfreda undulata 'Chocolate Chips' Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 15:16:17 +0200 (CEST) It was the fermented fruit piece which made me write.I did suspect this from the start when the flowers morphology was discussed... > Message du 12/06/12 14:54 > De : "Jim McKenney" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [pbs] Manfreda undulata 'Chocolate Chips' > > Mark, are you a mind reader? I just made an entry in my blog about this plant and came to the same conclusion. Too funny... > > Jim McKenney > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From msittner@mcn.org Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <20120612140602.F2B46E8B40@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Ornithogalum identification help Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:05:55 -0700 Lauw de Jager would like help identifying this plant growing in a neighbor's yard in southern France for over 20 years. It flowers in May. He thinks it is an Ornithogalum, but would like help with a species name. He says it is not O umbellatum, not O.magnum. I've added it to the wiki Mystery Bulbs page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MysteryBulbs From TalkingPoints@PlantSoup.Com Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <19716F42-4150-468E-A9C4-FD93FCA750A4@PlantSoup.Com> From: Nan Sterman Subject: Manfreda undulata 'Chocolate Chips' Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:15:06 -0700 That's really interesting, Mark. Since there are no visible petals, it certainly couldn't cue a pollinator by color or flower shape. On Jun 12, 2012, at 5:37 AM, Mark BROWN wrote: > I wonder if this is a bat pollinated flower then? > > The ratio of stamen length to pistil seems to preclude hummingbirds and favour bats? > > Mark > > > > > > > " Message du 12/06/12 14:13 >> De : "Jim McKenney" >> A : "Pacific Bulb Society" >> Copie à : >> Objet : Re: [pbs] Manfreda undulata 'Chocolate Chips' >> I'm usually pretty good with scents, but this one is definitely different. As I was falling asleep last night the scent drifted in through my bedroom window and woke me up. I noticed then that there is also a fermented fruit quality to the scent. " > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Tue, 12 Jun 2012 08:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1549152985.134612.1339513253702.JavaMail.www@wwinf1k17> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Manfreda undulata 'Chocolate Chips' Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:00:53 +0200 (CEST) Bat pollinated flowers are either white or very dull colours and use odd scents. The long stamens with lots of pollen are often a giveaway. Think of Tacca... Mark " Message du 12/06/12 16:15 > De : "Nan Sterman" > Objet : Re: [pbs] Manfreda undulata 'Chocolate Chips' > ... there are no visible petals, it certainly couldn't cue a pollinator by color or flower shape." From TalkingPoints@PlantSoup.Com Tue, 12 Jun 2012 08:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nan Sterman Subject: Manfreda undulata 'Chocolate Chips' Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 08:07:29 -0700 Yep, I knew that… On Jun 12, 2012, at 8:00 AM, Mark BROWN wrote: > Bat pollinated flowers are either white or very dull colours and use odd scents. > > The long stamens with lots of pollen are often a giveaway. Think of Tacca... > Mark > > > > > > > " Message du 12/06/12 16:15 >> De : "Nan Sterman" >> Objet : Re: [pbs] Manfreda undulata 'Chocolate Chips' >> > ... there are no visible petals, it certainly couldn't cue a pollinator by color or flower shape." > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From bulborum@gmail.com Tue, 12 Jun 2012 09:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Ornithogalum identification help Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:19:24 +0200 Could it be Ornithogalum narbonense Roland 2012/6/12 Mary Sue Ittner > Lauw de Jager would like help identifying this plant growing in a > neighbor's yard in southern France for over 20 years. It flowers in > May. He thinks it is an Ornithogalum, but would like help with a > species name. He says it is not O umbellatum, not O.magnum. I've > added it to the wiki Mystery Bulbs page: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MysteryBulbs > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From jmsjon664@aol.com Tue, 12 Jun 2012 13:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF16EDEA60C102-8BC-3B1E@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> From: "James L. Jones" Subject: New book Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:05:57 -0400 (EDT) Hi Colleen, Well, I think we're all rooting for you to have your solar greenhouse, and I suggest it might be feasible if you adjust your expectations, settling for the hardier kind of winter-blooming plants. Basic shrubs would be Camellia (fall-blooming sasanqua hybrids are best to be sure of flowers in the dead of winter), Daphne odora, Indica azaleas, etc.; well-tested bulbs include Narcissus bulbocodium praecox, N. 'Nylon', and N. fernandesii later in the season. These all can take 20oF if planted in the ground; in pots the roots are vulnerable to freezing if the cold lasts too long. Overnight has been okay with me. An efficient way of protecting the pots is to place them thickly on a heating mat that is controlled by a thermostat. Water as a thermal mass is dicey if the temperature is too low for too long, which is to say if surface ice doesn't melt off during the course of the day. Anti-freeze is not out of the question, or an aquarium bubbler to keep things stirred up. Go for it! Jim Jones Lexington, MA -----Original Message----- From: Colleen To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Sent: Mon, Jun 11, 2012 10:09 am Subject: Re: [pbs] New book Well, I tried water, though not drums full because of door size and I do have a crushed rock floor. Our climate is very unpredictable in these days of change, but two winters ago we were back down to -22F (-30C) and we have gotten to -32F. This year we only came close to 0F. Electricity is quite expensive here so I can't afford a heater that would run 24/7. Ventilation and mold are also a problem with the cold air. Thanks Colleen in NE Calif. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Alberto Castillo Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 1:58 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] New book Colleen, not even a lean-to one? You have the black painted water filled drums resource, that is excellent, also a crushed rock pit instead of floors, etc. From d.mueller-doblies@gmx.de Tue, 12 Jun 2012 18:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <4FD7E873.5090601@gmx.de> From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Dietrich_M=FCller-Doblies?= Subject: Ornithogalum identification help Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 03:10:11 +0200 Dear Mary Sue, that is most likely Ornithogalum narbonense L. In Ornithogalum narbonense L. the bracts should be twice as long as the flower buds. Unfortunately I cannot check this character on the photo. The other Ornithogalum with a similar habit indigenous to southern France is O. pyrenaicum with greenish (not pure white flowers inside). What is Lauw de Jager's place name? More than half a century ago I studied for a year phytosociology in the Languedoc with a peak knowledge of more than 2000 spp. of flowering plants and some hundred spp. of mosses and lichens. Best wishes Dietrich Am 12.06.2012 16:05, schrieb Mary Sue Ittner: > Lauw de Jager would like help identifying this plant growing in a > neighbor's yard in southern France for over 20 years. It flowers in > May. He thinks it is an Ornithogalum, but would like help with a > species name. He says it is not O umbellatum, not O.magnum. I've > added it to the wiki Mystery Bulbs page: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MysteryBulbs > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From dkramb@badbear.com Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4FD808B6.7020107@badbear.com> From: dkramb Subject: OT: terrariums Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:27:50 -0400 Here are 3 more pics of (some of) my terrariums. http://www.badbear.com/dkramb/P6120001.JPG http://www.badbear.com/dkramb/P6120006.JPG http://www.badbear.com/dkramb/P6120007.JPG #1 - shows the entire main terrarium - tillandsias on the walls, pinguiculas, microchiritas, etc... #6 - close up of the Chamaeranthemum gaudichaudii in full bloom #7 - Episcia fimbriata 'Blue Heaven' with Episcia 'La Soledad Bronze' Dennis in Cincinnati From randysgarden@gmail.com Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Randall P. Linke" Subject: OT: terrariums Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 20:47:43 -0700 Ugly? NOT! Central Monterey Bay (CMB) Randy. On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 8:27 PM, dkramb wrote: > Here are 3 more pics of (some of) my terrariums. > > http://www.badbear.com/dkramb/P6120001.JPG > http://www.badbear.com/dkramb/P6120006.JPG > http://www.badbear.com/dkramb/P6120007.JPG > > #1 - shows the entire main terrarium - tillandsias on the walls, > pinguiculas, microchiritas, etc... > #6 - close up of the Chamaeranthemum gaudichaudii in full bloom > #7 - Episcia fimbriata 'Blue Heaven' with Episcia 'La Soledad Bronze' > > Dennis in Cincinnati > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- * * A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right. - Thomas Paine --- * * From klazina1@gmail.com Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4FD80F3B.1050507@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: Sternbergia seed Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:55:39 +1200 Does anyone have experience growing Sternbergia from seed? What sort of conditions they like, sown on top of the soil, or covered? Which time of the year? -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand zone 10a From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Wed, 13 Jun 2012 01:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1559068300.8912.1339571824201.JavaMail.www@wwinf1k39> From: Mark BROWN Subject: OT: terrariums Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:17:04 +0200 (CEST) Beautiful, Dennis.You give me some ideas! > Message du 13/06/12 05:34 > De : "dkramb" > A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] OT: terrariums > > Here are 3 more pics of (some of) my terrariums. > > http://www.badbear.com/dkramb/P6120001.JPG > http://www.badbear.com/dkramb/P6120006.JPG > http://www.badbear.com/dkramb/P6120007.JPG > > #1 - shows the entire main terrarium - tillandsias on the walls, > pinguiculas, microchiritas, etc... > #6 - close up of the Chamaeranthemum gaudichaudii in full bloom > #7 - Episcia fimbriata 'Blue Heaven' with Episcia 'La Soledad Bronze' > > Dennis in Cincinnati > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From contact@bulbargence.com Wed, 13 Jun 2012 01:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: "contact" Subject: Ornithogalum identification help Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:18:45 +0200 Hello Roland and Dietrich, Indeed it is close to O narbonense (ofwhich I got quite a stock here) but: 1- this plant is much higher 60cm-70cm 2. the leaves are pale green ( O narbonense more greyish) 3. Flowers ere creamy yellow (not white) petals are narrower and slightly longer than O narbonense 4 seed capsules are exactly like O narbonense 4 flowering part of the spike is 20-30cm long 5 flower bracts too late to verify It could be O.pyranaicum, but I cannot find much information on that species Greetings from south of France (Arles between Marseille and Montpellier) Lauw de Jager http://www.bulbargence.com 5 -----Original Message----- that is most likely Ornithogalum narbonense L. In Ornithogalum narbonense L. the bracts should be twice as long as the flower buds. Unfortunately I cannot check this character on the photo. The other Ornithogalum with a similar habit indigenous to southern France is O. pyrenaicum with greenish (not pure white flowers inside). From christopherwhitehouse@rhs.org.uk Wed, 13 Jun 2012 02:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <76597B6CEABBC84BB63097BF023290B34041FB304D@VSM07MBX.rhs.net> From: Subject: help with Kniphofia ID Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:14:20 +0100 I agree it is not K. ritualis which has much broader less tough leaves and long ciliate margins (see http://mygarden.rhs.org.uk/blogs/plant_scientist/archive/2012/02/10/dumb-and-dumbe.aspx). I believe this is K. hirsuta, which is often offered by seed companies and generally comes true to type albeit with some variation - the leaves are often more scabrid than hairy. Chris www.rhs.org.uk Browse, shop and quiz experts from over 30 specialist nurseries and trade stands at the RHS Garden Hyde Hall Celebration of Plants, 12-14 August. Get Involved: E-Newsletter, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube Twitter #hashtags: #rhshampton, #rhstatton The Royal Horticultural Society (RHS) is the UK's leading gardening charity dedicated to advancing horticulture and promoting good gardening. Anyone with an interest in gardening can enjoy the benefits of RHS Membership and help us to secure a healthy future for gardening. For more information call: 0845 130 4646, or visit http://www.rhs.org.uk Please do not print this email if you really don't need to. The contents of this email and any files transmitted with it are confidential, proprietary and may be legally privileged. They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender. If you are not the intended recipient you may not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this email. The sender is not responsible for any changes made to any part of this email after transmission. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Society. Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free from any virus or other defects which might affect any computer or IT system into which they are received, no responsibility is accepted by the Society or any of its associated companies for any loss or damage arising in any way from the receipt or use thereof. From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Wed, 13 Jun 2012 05:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <1339587636.75518.YahooMailNeo@web84504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Sternbergia seed Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 04:40:36 -0700 (PDT) Long ago I annually had good seed set on my plants of Sternbergia clusiana. The seed ripened in late spring, and I sowed it in the autumn. The seed was covered, but otherwise nothing special was done.  I ultimately lost this stock to bulb fly. Jim McKenney From jshields@indy.net Wed, 13 Jun 2012 08:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20120613102839.02d01480@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Sprekelia wild type Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:33:29 -0400 I'm looking for a few wild-collected bulbs of Sprekelia formosissima. I have bulbs of S. 'Orient Red' and an offset of S. howardii to trade for these. I also have various Haemanthus to trade. I'm interested in seeing the natural variability of wild S. formosissima, and I have never had any of the wild type. Wild collected seed of S. formosissima with locality data would also be of interest. Jim Shields in central Indiana USA ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From dkramb@badbear.com Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Sprekelia wild type Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:50:46 -0400 Wow. Google comes up with NOTHING on wild-collected Sprekelia. I hit nothing but dead-ends. My favorite dead-end was finding a request from you in 2004 for wild-collected Sprekelia. LOL. Dennis in Cincinnati From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1339603951.54867.YahooMailNeo@web84520.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Sprekelia wild type Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:12:31 -0700 (PDT) I'm not surprised that recent collections of Sprekelia from the wild are so hard to track down: the plant has been in cultivation in Europe since at least the sixteenth century (i.e. over 400 years) and has been in the trade for at least well over a century.  Recent collections from the wild probably end up as herbarium hay or in the hands of paranoid collectors who will their earthly possessions to their cats.  Jim McKenney From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Sternbergia seed Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:14:40 -0700 Ina asked, >Does anyone have experience growing Sternbergia from seed? What sort of >conditions they like, sown on top of the soil, or covered? Which time >of the year? I have grown all the Sternbergia species from seed. I sow the seed in fall, or if I get it later in the year, as soon as received. The seeds should be well covered with at least 5 mm of soil and grit topdressing, because the radicle (first root) emerges from the seed first and can push the seed and its single cotyledon (leaf) out of the soil if it is not well covered. (This is true of Crocus seed too.) Usually the seeds germinate the first year after a period of cold (not freezing), but I would keep the seed pot at least two years. Keep the seedlings in their pots until they go dormant. Then you can store the seed pot fairly dry but not completely desiccated, in the shade, and let it grow on another year, or you can sort out the young bulbs and put them in a larger pot for the next year's growth -- also keep this pot somewhat but not totally dry. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From jshields@indy.net Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20120613135247.05465f00@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Sprekelia wild type Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:53:31 -0400 Yup! And I'm still waiting..... Jim At 11:50 AM 6/13/2012 -0400, you wrote: >Wow. Google comes up with NOTHING on wild-collected Sprekelia. I hit >nothing but dead-ends. My favorite dead-end was finding a request >from you in 2004 for wild-collected Sprekelia. LOL. > >Dennis in Cincinnati >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From klazina@orcon.net.nz Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FD8DA5F.6010700@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Sternbergia seed Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:22:23 +1200 Thank you Jim. As we are now at the end of autumn, going into winter, I will sow half now and the rest staggered over the next few months. And see what happens. Ina On 13/06/2012 11:40 p.m., Jim McKenney wrote: > Long ago I annually had good seed set on my plants of Sternbergia clusiana. The seed ripened in late spring, and I sowed it in the autumn. The seed was covered, but otherwise nothing special was done. > > I ultimately lost this stock to bulb fly. > > Jim McKenney > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From klazina@orcon.net.nz Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FD8DBA0.9050808@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Sternbergia seed Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:27:44 +1200 Thank you Jane. Will do that. Knowing to cover them like that and why, helps too. And ongoing care. Now for the patience until they flower..... Not as bad as the Plumeria seed I have just got and I seem to recall they take 7 years to flower. Ina On 14/06/2012 4:14 a.m., Jane McGary wrote: > Ina asked, >> Does anyone have experience growing Sternbergia from seed? What sort of >> conditions they like, sown on top of the soil, or covered? Which time >> of the year? > I have grown all the Sternbergia species from seed. I sow the seed in > fall, or if I get it later in the year, as soon as received. The > seeds should be well covered with at least 5 mm of soil and grit > topdressing, because the radicle (first root) emerges from the seed > first and can push the seed and its single cotyledon (leaf) out of > the soil if it is not well covered. (This is true of Crocus seed > too.) Usually the seeds germinate the first year after a period of > cold (not freezing), but I would keep the seed pot at least two > years. Keep the seedlings in their pots until they go dormant. Then > you can store the seed pot fairly dry but not completely desiccated, > in the shade, and let it grow on another year, or you can sort out > the young bulbs and put them in a larger pot for the next year's > growth -- also keep this pot somewhat but not totally dry. > > Jane McGary > Portland, Oregon, USA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From maxwithers@gmail.com Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Max Withers Subject: Eucomis Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:15:02 -0700 Eucomis reichenbachii is a species I rarely hear mentioned with nicely spotted leaves (and green flowers) that has potential for breeding. Here in the SF Bay area it doesn't emerge until June (for comparison, Calochortus superbus and Begonia boliviensis are already blooming, and my other winter-growing bulbs are dormant). Here is a picture of the leaves emerging: http://www.flickr.com/photos/badthings/7370828044/in/photostream/ When it flowers, I'll try to put a picture on the wiki. Max Withers On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 7:18 PM, Tim Chapman wrote: > >> . I think by >> "sparkling beauty" Tim means 'Sparkling Burgundy', which is widely >> offered, possibly not always the true clone of that name. > > Yes I meant Sparkling Burgundy, oops . > >> >> >> This is one of the best South African genera for growing in colder >> climates, because it emerges late in spring and can be protected by >> deep planting and plenty of mulch. However, the flowers of E. >> autumnalis can be ruined by frost in fall. >> > > These are very adaptable plants as they also thrive in south Louisiana.  I originally planted them in a terrible location and they fortunately made it through a few years of not so great conditions.   Here the E comosa types and the reddish E autumnalis types sprout first (some are blooming now) followed by E pallidiflora, and later by E zambesiaca and E bicolor (the latter are still not in the best location and this may be why the are always last.  Perhaps these normally high elevation diploid spp just don't thrive as well as the lower elevation tetraploid spp do here. Too early to tell. > >  I have three other spp to plant out eventually, and still looking for grimshawii, schijffi, a true montana, and amaryllidifolia. (I don't see it listed as such but E amaryllidifolia has been reinstated to species level by Duncan due to it being a diploid and not an allotetraploid like E autumnalis). > > Where did you buy the 'Dark Star'?  I see 'Freckles' for sale online but hadn't come across Dark Star. > > Tim Chapman > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From bulborum@gmail.com Thu, 14 Jun 2012 00:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Eucomis Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:54:08 +0200 Max Do you have an address where we can get it Roland 2012/6/14 Max Withers : > Eucomis reichenbachii is a species I rarely hear mentioned with nicely > spotted leaves (and green flowers) that has potential for breeding. -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From toadlily@olywa.net Thu, 14 Jun 2012 01:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FD99440.7070700@olywa.net> From: Laura & Dave Subject: Ornithogalum identification help Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 00:35:28 -0700 Hi All I'm not sure if this will help, or just cloud the issue, but I've been growing a group of plants that look very similar to the ones pictured for many years. I received the seed under the valid name O. pyramidale, but I haven't found a good key to the genus to verify this. They are in mid-flowering now, so perhaps I can get a few pictures for comparison. When I recently repotted them, the bulbs did have a bit of a pyramidal shape, one of the characteristics noted for this species. With luck, I should have ample seed to send to the Bx. Dave Brastow Tumwater, Washington (7A - and still raining) From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Thu, 14 Jun 2012 01:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <001501cd4a02$6c1a10d0$444e3270$@virgin.net> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Eucomis Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:50:50 +0100 Eucomis reichenbachii is an illegitimate synonym of E. bicolor, used especially by one notorious nursery in the UK to pretend they have something special. John Grimshaw Visit John Grimshaw’s Garden Diary http://johngrimshawsgardendiary.blogspot.com/ Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Bulborum Botanicum Sent: 14 June 2012 07:54 To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Eucomis Max Do you have an address where we can get it Roland 2012/6/14 Max Withers : > Eucomis reichenbachii is a species I rarely hear mentioned with nicely > spotted leaves (and green flowers) that has potential for breeding. -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2433/5067 - Release Date: 06/13/12 From bulborum@gmail.com Thu, 14 Jun 2012 02:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Eucomis Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:40:05 +0200 Thanks John Roland 2012/6/14 John Grimshaw : > Eucomis reichenbachii is an illegitimate synonym of E. bicolor, used > especially by one notorious nursery in the UK to pretend they have something > special. > > John Grimshaw > Do you have an address where we can get it > > Roland -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From d.mueller-doblies@gmx.de Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FD9F25C.3060309@gmx.de> From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Dietrich_M=FCller-Doblies?= Subject: Ornithogalum identification help Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:17:00 +0200 Dear Laura & Dave, I am pretty sure that your suggestion will solve the identification problem. The Central European endemic O. pyramidale L. 1753 is the elder sister of the South European O. narbonense L. 1756. Both species are so close allies that the younger sister is also called O. pyramidale ssp. narbonense (L.) Aschers. & Graebner. I know O. narbonense & O. pyrenaicum from the field, but O. pyramidale I only know from the Berlin Botanical Garden: in the sixty years (diamond jubilee) of my botanical field observations I never saw it in the field, as far as I remember. You find the *best Ornithogalum key *in Flora Europaea vol. 5 by Zahariadi. Zahariadi was the only botanist who had a clear insight into Ornithogalum in a literal sense. He looked into the secret structures of all Ornithogalum bulbs which he could get hold of in his large living collection. From my occasional side-tracks of bulb structure studies of Amaryllidaceae looking into Albuca, Scilla, Ornithogalum and other Hyacinthaceae I could fully confirm Zahariadi's results when we (my wife Ute & I) met him in the early seventies in Athens. Thus, I propose that you make good photos of your plants and send them via PBS to Lauw de Jager, whether he can agree that your photos represent his plant. Dietrich Am 14.06.2012 09:35, schrieb Laura & Dave: > Hi All > I'm not sure if this will help, or just cloud the issue, but I've been > growing a group of plants that look very similar to the ones pictured for many > years. I received the seed under the valid name O. pyramidale, but I haven't > found a good key to the genus to verify this. They are in mid-flowering now, so > perhaps I can get a few pictures for comparison. When I recently repotted them, > the bulbs did have a bit of a pyramidal shape, one of the characteristics noted > for this species. With luck, I should have ample seed to send to the Bx. > Dave Brastow > Tumwater, Washington (7A - and still raining) > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From maxwithers@gmail.com Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FDA194F.40608@gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: Eucomis Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:03:11 -0700 Thanks John, I knew I should have checked that name before I posted. Interestingly The Plant List doesn't even list it as an invalid synonym. Do you know the origin of the name? As I mentioned, mine has greenish flowers (if I'm remembering correctly), unlike what I think of as typical bicolor. Best, Max Withers On 6/14/12 12:50 AM, John Grimshaw wrote: > Eucomis reichenbachii is an illegitimate synonym of E. bicolor, used > especially by one notorious nursery in the UK to pretend they have something > special. > > John Grimshaw > > Visit John Grimshaw’s Garden Diary > http://johngrimshawsgardendiary.blogspot.com/ > > Dr John M. Grimshaw > Sycamore Cottage > Colesbourne > Cheltenham > Gloucestershire > GL53 9NP > > Tel. 01242 870567 > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of Bulborum Botanicum > Sent: 14 June 2012 07:54 > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Eucomis > > Max > > Do you have an address where we can get it > > Roland > > 2012/6/14 Max Withers: >> Eucomis reichenbachii is a species I rarely hear mentioned with nicely >> spotted leaves (and green flowers) that has potential for breeding. > -- > R de Boer > La Maugardiere 1 > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email: bulborum@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2433/5067 - Release Date: 06/13/12 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From xerantheum@gmail.com Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: help with Kniphofia ID Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:59:01 -0700 Thanks everyone for your input. Chris, the description of the leaves of K. hirsuta matches the plant. Many thanks. Nhu On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 1:14 AM, wrote: > I agree it is not K. ritualis which has much broader less tough leaves and > long ciliate margins (see > http://mygarden.rhs.org.uk/blogs/plant_scientist/archive/2012/02/10/dumb-and-dumbe.aspx). > I believe this is K. hirsuta, which is often offered by seed companies and > generally comes true to type albeit with some variation - the leaves are > often more scabrid than hairy. > > From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: OT: terrariums Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 19:47:46 +0000 Dennis, this is not actually OP. I remember time ago when you started collecting forest tuberous Sinningias and acquired a number of other types. These you are showing now to us are those accompanying plants to those gesneriads to make the groupings look like interesting mini jungle settings. From bulborum@gmail.com Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Zephyranthes Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 21:52:54 +0200 This was a post on the SRGC Is it a Zephyranthes ?? Roland http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9202.new;topicseen#new -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FDB949D.50105@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Zephyranthes Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 08:01:33 +1200 There is no description as to how tall it is or anything like that. To me it looks like it could be one of the Habranthus robustus family Ina On 16/06/2012 7:52 a.m., Bulborum Botanicum wrote: > This was a post on the SRGC > Is it a Zephyranthes ?? > > Roland > > http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9202.new;topicseen#new -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From cj5sfo@yahoo.com Sat, 16 Jun 2012 13:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1339876067.60102.YahooMailNeo@web39406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Gregg Subject: (no subject) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 12:47:47 -0700 (PDT) http://www.altonw.info/wp-content/themes/monochrome/mndlkfs.html?jjk=cc.jjk&jj=nj.kjj&cjn=joiy From bulborum@gmail.com Sat, 16 Jun 2012 14:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: (no subject) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 23:05:09 +0200 This is spam it seems the computer from Gregg is hacked Roland 2012/6/16 Gregg : > http://www.altonw.info/wp-content/themes/monochrome/mndlkfs.html?jjk=cc.jjk&jj=nj.kjj&cjn=joiy > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Sat, 16 Jun 2012 17:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: (was no subject) - now yahoo accounts Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 00:56:25 +0100 Hi, In message , Bulborum Botanicum writes >it seems the computer from Gregg is hacked Yahoo accounts seem to be a successful target for hacking at the moment, this is the second this week here alone. I'd humbly suggest that if you have a yahoo account you make sure your password is strong, and that the answers to the password reset questions are not available in the public domain - e.g. you've got your first pet's name on facebook. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From msittner@mcn.org Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <20120618133714.8A33EE8BA6@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Clivia Symposium message from Harold Koopowitz Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:37:07 -0700 The North American Clivia Society invites members of the IBS and PBS to join us in a symposium celebrating "Clivias around the World" on July 8th, 2012. This will be a rare opportunity to meet and hear David Banks, one of the premier Clivia hybridizers in Australia talk about his work. In addition James Comstock who rarely ever speaks on his Clivia breeding program has been persuaded to talk about some of his hybrids. The admission price of $30 covers the cost of lunch. You need to register on the North American Clivia Society webpage. http://www.northamericancliviasociety.org/home.php Click on the button at the bottom of the page to buy admission. Deadline will be June 30th for registration, the Symposium will be at the Botany Building. Deadline is so we can cater the correct number of lunches. No admissions will be available without registration. Please print out and bring your PayPal receipt to the event as your admission ticket. As each receipt will act as a single ticket, please buy tickets one at a time in separate PayPal transactions, and place the ticket holder's name in the SHIP TO: box. Admission tickets cover Lunch and Admission to the Huntington Grounds. Gates open at 10:00am, with activities beginning at the Botany Building at 10:30am and concluding around 4:00pm. See you there: Harold Koopowitz >On Sunday, July 8, 2012 the North American Clivia Society is >sponsoring a symposium, "Clivia Around the World". This one-day >event will be held at The Huntington; Library, Art Collections, and >Botanical Gardens, 1151 Oxford Road, San Marino, California 91108. >Scheduled speakers at the event include Harold Koopowitz on New >Zealand Clivia, James Comstock on A Work in Progress, Marilyn >Paskert on Japanese Clivia, and David Banks on Australian Clivia. >Catered lunch and admission to the Huntington grounds are included >in the registration fee of $30.00. Gates open at 10:00am, with >activities beginning at 10:30am and concluding around 4:00pm. All >registrations must be made and paid for in advance. No registrations >will be sold at the door. North American Clivia Society membership >is not required. The registrar for the event is Tom Wells. > >Please contact Tom with any questions at ernestwells@mindspring.com . From santoury@aol.com Mon, 18 Jun 2012 09:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF1B7F485664C9-2290-100FE@webmail-m149.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Photos ? Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:36:37 -0400 (EDT) I know we can't post pictures here, and I cannot post on the WIKI - but I cannot, for the life of me, remember the "outside website" that was used to post a picture that people could go to, and view? I have some kind of Hymenocallis or Ismene, or something similar, that I would like identified. All I remember is, it was not PhotoBucket, I don't think, but another one? Thanks, Jude From bulborum@gmail.com Mon, 18 Jun 2012 09:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Photos ? Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:41:34 +0200 You can use Photobucket , Flickr or Picasa and post the link Roland 2012/6/18 The Silent Seed : > > > I know we can't post pictures here, and I cannot post on the WIKI - but I cannot, for the life of me, remember the "outside website" that was used to post a picture that people could go to, and view? I have some kind of Hymenocallis or Ismene, or something similar, that I would like identified. > All I remember is, it was not PhotoBucket, I don't think, but another one? > Thanks, Jude > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From santoury@aol.com Mon, 18 Jun 2012 09:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF1B8042C4EDA9-2290-1020D@webmail-m149.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Photos ? Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:43:37 -0400 (EDT) Thanks! Flickr is what I was after - uploading now (hopefully) From santoury@aol.com Mon, 18 Jun 2012 09:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF1B80E3F247E9-2290-102B8@webmail-m149.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Photos ? Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:48:08 -0400 (EDT) It is now uploaded - do I include a link to the page here ? From bulborum@gmail.com Mon, 18 Jun 2012 09:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Photos ? Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:49:36 +0200 yes R 2012/6/18 The Silent Seed : > It is now uploaded - do I include a link to the page here ? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From santoury@aol.com Mon, 18 Jun 2012 09:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF1B81C903A132-2290-103B1@webmail-m149.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: What am I ? Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:54:32 -0400 (EDT) OK, here goes http://www.flickr.com/photos/21850425@N03/?uploaded=1&magic_cookie=d245693603eed72009c49d1d5516fa9e From bulborum@gmail.com Mon, 18 Jun 2012 09:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: What am I ? Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:58:47 +0200 Nice picture Is it H. harrisiana ?? Roland 2012/6/18 The Silent Seed : > > > OK,  here goes > http://www.flickr.com/photos/21850425@N03/?uploaded=1&magic_cookie=d245693603eed72009c49d1d5516fa9e > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From jshields@indy.net Mon, 18 Jun 2012 09:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20120618115815.03afa650@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: What am I ? Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:03:28 -0400 That is Hymenocallis rather than Ismene. Which species is another question; we need a bit more data. 1. Close-up of flower showing how tepals attach and length of tube. 2. Leaves -- how wide, how long, cross section 3. Where is it from? Geographic place of origin can narrow down the possibilities. Or you can simply send a bulb of it to me and wait a year or two and I'll tell you what it is. I must admit that when Tony Avent does that, I have a couple of times let him down, so be warned! Maybe you should send a bulb to Tony instead..... Jim Shields At 11:54 AM 6/18/2012 -0400, you wrote: >OK, here goes >http://www.flickr.com/photos/21850425@N03/?uploaded=1&magic_cookie=d245693603eed72009c49d1d5516fa9e > ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From jshields@indy.net Mon, 18 Jun 2012 09:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20120618120435.05cea720@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: What am I ? Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:05:50 -0400 Cup looks too big for harrisiana, at least to me. How wide is the cup? How long the tepals? How wide (in mm.) are the tepals? Jim S. At 05:58 PM 6/18/2012 +0200, you wrote: >Nice picture > >Is it H. harrisiana ?? > >Roland > > >2012/6/18 The Silent Seed : > > > > > > OK, here goes > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/21850425@N03/?uploaded=1&magic_cookie=d245693603eed72009c49d1d5516fa9e > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > >-- >R de Boer >La Maugardiere 1 >F 27260 EPAIGNES >FRANCE > >Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 >Email: bulborum@gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From santoury@aol.com Mon, 18 Jun 2012 09:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF1B836C67A473-2290-1057D@webmail-m149.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: What am I ? Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:06:15 -0400 (EDT) Thank you! My fiancee took the photo. I have no idea what it is. I got this in a trade as an unknown, several years ago. Subject: Re: [pbs] What am I ? Nice picture Is it H. harrisiana ?? Roland From thegardenguru@yahoo.com Mon, 18 Jun 2012 09:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <1340035581.34566.YahooMailClassic@web45801.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> From: Joseph Seals Subject: What am I ? Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 09:06:21 -0700 (PDT) Check against Ismene littoralis (?litoralis), I. maximiliani, and I. palmeri. Joe Joseph SealsConsultantArroyo Grande, CaliforniaCell: 805-823-5696 New book: "Central Coast Gardening Essentials"more info at: www.centralcoastkitchenandgarden.com  --- On Mon, 6/18/12, The Silent Seed wrote: From: The Silent Seed Subject: [pbs] What am I ? To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Date: Monday, June 18, 2012, 8:54 AM OK,  here goes  http://www.flickr.com/photos/21850425@N03/?uploaded=1&magic_cookie=d245693603eed72009c49d1d5516fa9e From santoury@aol.com Mon, 18 Jun 2012 09:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF1B843BCC35AF-2290-10662@webmail-m149.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: What am I ? Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:12:03 -0400 (EDT) I'll try for more detailed photos, The leaves are nothing special - about 1 1/2 inches wide, and about a foot and a half long. Fleshy and flexible, not stiff. Superficially, the bulb looks like an Amaryllis (Hippeastrum hybrid, rather.) This is the only one, so am unable to share any with you. Thank you for the offer, though! If it happens to set seed, I'll send you some. No idea where it's from, except from a swap-buddy in Florida's yard. Thanks, Jude From santoury@aol.com Mon, 18 Jun 2012 09:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF1B844A73B2D7-2290-10679@webmail-m149.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: What am I ? Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:12:28 -0400 (EDT) Thanks, will do! From santoury@aol.com Mon, 18 Jun 2012 09:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF1B8460B657F1-2290-1068B@webmail-m149.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: What am I ? Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:13:05 -0400 (EDT) I'll get you that info later today! From alanidae@gmail.com Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alani Davis Subject: What am I ? Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:18:47 -0400 That is a Hymenocallis not an Ismene. The corona is far too big for H. harrisoniana as well as H. maximiliani. H. palmeri would have a different form to the corona evident even at this age of flower and the tepals would be chartruese. There are a number of possible species and hybrids it could be. It won't be possible to identify entirely without more details of the plant and possibly where it is from though it could be narrowed down to less choices. -- Alani From alanidae@gmail.com Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alani Davis Subject: What am I ? Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:21:26 -0400 If it is from a Florida yard and looks like that photo... likely it is Hymenocallis latifolia > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Alani From thegardenguru@yahoo.com Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1340036720.5025.YahooMailClassic@web45804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> From: Joseph Seals Subject: What am I ? Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 09:25:20 -0700 (PDT) Thanks everyone for bringing me into the 21st century.  I know that Hymenocallis and Ismene are different (in their subtleties); I just got stuck on old synonyms. Joe Joseph SealsConsultantArroyo Grande, CaliforniaCell: 805-823-5696 New book: "Central Coast Gardening Essentials"more info at: www.centralcoastkitchenandgarden.com  --- On Mon, 6/18/12, Alani Davis wrote: From: Alani Davis Subject: Re: [pbs] What am I ? To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Monday, June 18, 2012, 9:18 AM That is a Hymenocallis not an Ismene. The corona is far too big for H. harrisoniana as well as H. maximiliani. H. palmeri would have a different form to the corona evident even at this age of flower and the tepals would be chartruese. There are a number of possible species and hybrids it could be. It won't be possible to identify entirely without more details of the plant and possibly where it is from though it could be narrowed down to less choices. -- Alani From jshields@indy.net Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20120618134353.03c539a0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: What am I ? Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:45:31 -0400 Jude, Just as Alani said! The leaf description sounds right for latifolia as well. Jim At 12:21 PM 6/18/2012 -0400, you wrote: >If it is from a Florida yard and looks like that photo... likely it is >Hymenocallis latifolia > >-- >Alani >_______________________________________________ ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From dkramb@badbear.com Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Las Vegas Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:10:37 -0400 I'm traveling to Las Vegas soon to visit a friend living out there. Are there any good garden - botanical - conservatory places to visit? I realize that summer isn't the ideal time to visit, but I wanna squeeze in something plant-related while I'm out there. Thanks, Dennis in Cincinnati From faeden4444@sbcglobal.net Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <1340051598.63753.YahooMailRC@web83604.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> From: Marilyn Pekasky Subject: Las Vegas Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:33:18 -0700 (PDT) There are a few.  One that I aways liked was the Water District's Demonstration Gardens.  I see that they've moved to a much larger space.  It should be even better now:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gardens_at_the_Las_Vegas_Springs_Preserve Another one I like is Ethel M's cactus & succulent garden in Henderson:  http://www.ethelm.com/about_us/cactus_garden.aspx Here's a list of a lot of gardens in the LV area.  I don't know anything about most of them, though: http://walterslasvegasguide.com/lasvegasgardens/ Enjoy! Marilyn Pekasky ________________________________ From: Dennis Kramb To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Mon, June 18, 2012 1:10:58 PM Subject: [pbs] Las Vegas I'm traveling to Las Vegas soon to visit a friend living out there. Are there any good garden - botanical - conservatory places to visit? I realize that summer isn't the ideal time to visit, but I wanna squeeze in something plant-related while I'm out there. Thanks, Dennis in Cincinnati From absousf@yahoo.fr Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1340058137.61996.YahooMailNeo@web28904.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: absousfabrice malvaceae Subject: Gladiolus seeds or corms Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 23:22:17 +0100 (BST) hello i start a collection and search seeds or corms of Gladiolus i have and search seeds of Malvaceae thanks fabrice From absousf@yahoo.fr Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1340058255.16785.YahooMailNeo@web28903.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: absousfabrice malvaceae Subject: Suite Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 23:24:15 +0100 (BST) i am french , scuse me fabrice From petersirises@gmail.com Tue, 19 Jun 2012 00:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Gladiolus seeds or corms Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:27:25 +0100 what species interest you? Tropical? South African? Europaean? Peter (UK) On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 11:22 PM, absousfabrice malvaceae wrote: > hello > > i start a collection and search seeds or corms of Gladiolus > From absousf@yahoo.fr Tue, 19 Jun 2012 01:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1340091670.11781.YahooMailNeo@web28906.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: absousfabrice malvaceae Subject: Gladiolus seeds or corms Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:41:10 +0100 (BST) hello i search all species , i have a garden and a greenhouse thanks fabrice From petersirises@gmail.com Tue, 19 Jun 2012 02:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: help with Kniphofia ID Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:30:42 +0100 This is what I grow as Kniphofia hirsuta, It came from Ron McBeath http://www.flickr.com/photos/organize/ Peter (UK) > From klazina@orcon.net.nz Tue, 19 Jun 2012 02:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4FE03C21.3010404@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: help with Kniphofia ID Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:45:21 +1200 I don't know what happened but when I clicked on your link all that came up was a row of my own thumbnails at the bottom of the screen. Ina On 19/06/2012 8:30 p.m., Peter Taggart wrote: > This is what I grow as Kniphofia hirsuta, It came from Ron McBeath > http://www.flickr.com/photos/organize/ > Peter (UK) > -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From petersirises@gmail.com Tue, 19 Jun 2012 12:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: help with Kniphofia ID Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:21:00 +0100 Try this link then... www.flicker.com/photos/66380714@N06/7400071798/ Peter (UK) On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Ina wrote: > I don't know what happened but when I clicked on your link all that came > up was a row of my own thumbnails at the bottom of the screen.-- > From klazina@orcon.net.nz Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <4FE0D9D5.4060302@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: help with Kniphofia ID Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:58:13 +1200 Ahh, that's much better Peter. Lovely plant! Ina On 20/06/2012 6:21 a.m., Peter Taggart wrote: > Try this link then... www.flicker.com/photos/66380714@N06/7400071798/ > Peter (UK) > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Ina wrote: > >> I don't know what happened but when I clicked on your link all that came >> up was a row of my own thumbnails at the bottom of the screen.-- >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <003801cd4e56$4a92c8a0$dfb859e0$@virgin.net> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: help with Kniphofia ID Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:01:16 +0100 Good K. hirsuta Visit John Grimshaw's Garden Diary http://johngrimshawsgardendiary.blogspot.com/ Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Peter Taggart Sent: 19 June 2012 19:21 To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] help with Kniphofia ID Try this link then... www.flicker.com/photos/66380714@N06/7400071798/ Peter (UK) On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Ina wrote: > I don't know what happened but when I clicked on your link all that > came up was a row of my own thumbnails at the bottom of the screen.-- > ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2437/5079 - Release Date: 06/19/12 From oldtulips@gmail.com Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Rimmer de Vries Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 311 item 15 further detail Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:59:31 -0400 to those you requested item 15 this listing appears to be the same item, From the Summer 2012 BURIED TREASURE list of Rannveig Wallis, *Scilla cilicica RRW96.28. Shaded cliff base on Jebl Nusairia, Syria. We have now been persuaded that this is the correct name for this beauty since it fits with plants of that name in Israeli Racemes of pretty, reflexed flowers like small blue shooting stars. * Rimmer de Vries From oldtulips@gmail.com Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Rimmer de Vries Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 311 item 15 further detail Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:56:37 -0400 Since everyone is asking me for Rannveig Wallis' 2012 BURIED TREASURE list can PBS make a group order as it involves UK money transfer and who know swhat import permits etc. Rimmer On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 6:50 PM, Lee Poulsen wrote: > > On Jun 19, 2012, at 2:59 PM, Rimmer de Vries wrote: > > to those you requested item 15 this listing appears to be the same item, > > From the Summer 2012 BURIED TREASURE list of Rannveig Wallis, > > > *Scilla cilicica RRW96.28. Shaded cliff base on Jebl Nusairia, Syria. > > We have now been persuaded that this is the correct name for this beauty > since it fits with plants of that name in Israeli Racemes of pretty, > reflexed flowers like small blue shooting stars. > * > > > Rimmer de Vries > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > From othonna@gmail.com Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 311 item 15 further detail Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:17:06 -0700 Rimmer, I would be interested in a group order. Searching the web I see this operation has "no website, no email". How does one view the list? Thanks, Dylan On 19 June 2012 15:56, Rimmer de Vries wrote: > Since everyone is asking me for Rannveig Wallis' 2012 BURIED TREASURE list > > can PBS make a group order as it involves UK money transfer and who know > swhat import permits etc. > > Rimmer > > > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 6:50 PM, Lee Poulsen wrote: > > > > > On Jun 19, 2012, at 2:59 PM, Rimmer de Vries wrote: > > > > to those you requested item 15 this listing appears to be the same item, > > > > From the Summer 2012 BURIED TREASURE list of Rannveig Wallis, > > > > > > *Scilla cilicica RRW96.28. Shaded cliff base on Jebl Nusairia, > Syria. > > > > We have now been persuaded that this is the correct name for this beauty > > since it fits with plants of that name in Israeli Racemes of pretty, > > reflexed flowers like small blue shooting stars. > > * > > > > > > Rimmer de Vries > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- "*Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.*" ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton From absousf@yahoo.fr Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1340223595.30677.YahooMailNeo@web28901.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: absousfabrice malvaceae Subject: Gladiolus ID Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:19:55 +0100 (BST) hello i have buy this 4 species , could you please help me with identification ? thanks Fabrice http://www.flickr.com/photos/25310876@N08/7409961936/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/25310876@N08/7409962126/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/25310876@N08/7409962226/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/25310876@N08/7409962004/in/photostream From annamwal@interia.pl Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: "A. M. Walnik" Subject: Another Hymenocallis to ID Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:35:53 +0200 Hi, On my windowsill there is a Hymenocallis flowering these days: http://mwalnik.wodip.opole.pl/botanika/poza_spisem/hymeno_12.html I hope someone can help to identify this species. The flower bud is approx. 24 cm long (near 10 inches). Flowers have – especially on evenings – nice scent, sweet with clove component. Marek Walnik, Glucholazy, Poland. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kjblack@pacbell.net Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1340304612.58770.YahooMailRC@web181001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: Another Hymenocallis to ID Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Hello Walnik, I can't help you with an ID as requested ... but I wanted to say thanks for sharing your photos of Amaryllids at your website ... beautiful ! Ken Blackford San Diego, California ________________________________ From: A. M. Walnik To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Thu, June 21, 2012 9:51:14 AM Subject: [pbs] Another Hymenocallis to ID Hi, On my windowsill there is a Hymenocallis flowering these days: http://mwalnik.wodip.opole.pl/botanika/poza_spisem/hymeno_12.html I hope someone can help to identify this species. The flower bud is approx. 24 cm long (near 10 inches). Flowers have – especially on evenings – nice scent, sweet with clove component. Marek Walnik, Glucholazy, Poland. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From absousf@yahoo.fr Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1340312893.86292.YahooMailNeo@web28903.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: absousfabrice malvaceae Subject: Gladiolus ID Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:08:13 +0100 (BST) hello they are south-african gladiolus and i would to buy seeds or corms of Gladiolus thanks fabrice From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Calochortus report Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:27:45 -0700 The bulb house is a scene of drying foliage and seed capsules now, except for the far side of the "dry" bed, where the Calochortus species are in full bloom. The earliest to flower are in seed now: C. tolmiei, C. monophyllus, C. albus, C. elegans, C. coeruleus, C. umpquaensis, and C. uniflorus. Tall yellow C. amabilis is almost done. Just winding down is tiny C. coxii. The large mariposas -- C. venustus in many color forms, C. superbus, C. splendens, C. vestae. C. catalinae, C. argillosus, C. invenustus, and C. simulans -- have reached their peak. The strange little pink C. striatus has its last flowers open, as does another plant of the Southwest desert, deep orange C. kennedyi. A group of lovely C. concolor have opened in the past two days, these with central markings and brownish exterior flush. This morning a new one for me, C. dunnii, opened three simple white flowers with small dark nectary spots. Another rather plain one in flower is C. howellii, whose spots are greenish. C. longebarbatus is doing very well, which consoles me somewhat for not having its taller relative C. macrocarpus. Calochortus clavatus subsp. gracilis has been in flower for some time, but its larger relative, C. clavatus subsp. clavatus, is yet to open. Waiting to end the parade are C. palmeri, C. weedii, and C. plummerae, and the curious C. obispoensis with its little flowers that look like furry wasps. To see C. subalpinus, however, I'll have to drive up to the mountains nearby, as I've never been able to grow this plain little cream-colored one. And sadly I seem to have lost one of my favorites, C. amoenus, of which I had many that did not survive the move. My collection is also missing most of the species from the interior West, and I have none of the Mexican species. I owe the majority of these plants to the seed collections of Ron Ratko, but some also came from seed purchased from Jim and Georgie Robinett and from the Archibalds, who collected in California a couple of times and in other years got seed from John Andrews. My C. kennedyi came from Sally Walker's seed list. Despite the many different habitats from which these plants have come, I'm growing all of them in the same soil (now, sharp coarse sand with clay and compost down below, where the bulbs may eventually descend), and in just two different moisture regimes, one bed with a little water in the summer and plenty in winter, and the other less moisture in winter and none in summer. All of them have survived about 20 degrees F (minus 6 C) in my former bulb frames; in their new home they may be warmer because of the lower elevation and lack of east wind. They are flowering much better and making much bigger plants (depending on species) now that they're not in pots. The flowers appear to be pollinated by both bumblebees and a small bee, and probably flies too. Last year they set seed well and I sent most of it to the NARGS exchange. Some rare kinds went to Oron Peri in Israel, for him to try in a climate that the southern Californian species in particular should love. This year I'll send some to the PBS BX so more specialized growers can try them. I'll give Dell Sherk a note to accompany it with tips for growing them from seed. I should warn you, though, that hybridization occurs readily between some species, especially in section Mariposa, subsection Venusti. I have what appear to be hybrids raised from wild-collected C. superbus seed, and I read that hybrids between it and C. luteus are frequent and appear much like what I have here -- basically pale yellow. I'll mark them with tape labels on the scapes so I'll know what seed I'm collecting, and the same for the best color forms of C. venustus. This is a fascinating genus if you have the patience to raise them (flowering can take 4 or 5 years) and the room to accommodate them; they do best with a very deep root run, and many of them are tall and floppy, since they grow in nature in grassland and around shrubs they can lean on. Some of my tall ones are fortunately behind clumps of Regelia and Regeliocyclus irises, which are still in leaf at this time and hold the Calochortus up. C. venustus usually stands up well, though, even in wind. Other bulbs that flower at the same time include many Allium species and most of the western American Themidaceae (Brodiaea, Dichelostemma, Triteleia, Bloomeria). As far as I know, the only nursery selling mature material is Diana Chapman's Telos Rare Bulbs, from which I bought several special forms. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From petersirises@gmail.com Fri, 22 Jun 2012 02:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Gladiolus ID Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:26:57 +0100 Have you contacted Silverhill Seeds? http://www.silverhillseeds.co.za/byEntireCat.asp If you buy Gladiolus seeds from them, be careful to sow the seeds at the correct time of year. Peter (UK) On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 10:08 PM, absousfabrice malvaceae wrote: > > and i would to buy seeds or corms of Gladiolus > From absousf@yahoo.fr Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1340394014.83188.YahooMailNeo@web28904.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: absousfabrice malvaceae Subject: Gladiolus ID Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:40:14 +0100 (BST) thanks i know Silverhill , i have many Malvaceae frome , what is the correct date to sow ? From ds429@comcast.net Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <000001cd50b1$22a64d50$67f2e7f0$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 314 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:56:17 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 314" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Mary Sue Ittner: Winter rainfall South African Oxalis bulbs (I usually plant and start watering in August as many of these are fall bloomers). 1. Oxalis callosa 2. Oxalis commutata 3. Oxalis depressa MV4871 4. Oxalis engleriana 5. Oxalis fabaefolia (Christiaan says this is now considered a form of flava) 6. Oxalis hirta 7. Oxalis hirta (mauve form) 8. Oxalis hirta 'Gothenburg' (giant form) 9. Oxalis melanosticta 'Ken Aslet' (blooms best in deep pot) 10. Oxalis palmifrons (grown for the leaves as most of us never see any flowers) 11. Oxalis purpurea (white flowers) 12. Oxalis purpurea 'Lavender & White' 13. Oxalis purpurea 'Skar' (pink flowers) 14. Oxalis zeekoevleyensis (one of the first to start into growth) 15. Very small bulbs of Tulipa batalini - winter growing 16. Seed of Haemanthus albiflos - evergreen From Jim Jones: 17. Small bulbs of Narcissus 'Nylon' From Jim Waddick: 18. Crinum bulbispermum 'Jumbo' seeds. This was originated from the late Crinum expert Les Hannibal and distributed by Marcelle Sheppard. This species does not pup a lot, so must be grown from seed for practical purposes. Totally hardy here in Kansas City Zone 5/6. Flowers open well in shades of light to dark pink. recommended and easy. 19. Seeds of Fritillaria persica. This is a tall clone with rich purple/brown flowers. Does not pup freely here, but quite hardy in Kansas City. 20. Seed of Camassia 'Sacajewea'. Flowers creamy white, foliage white thin white edges. Of 3 or 4 species grown, only this one has made seed. A good size plant may be a form of C. leichtlinii. From Rod Barton: 21. Various sized bulbs of the triploid Rhodophiala bifida heirloom. It's a veritable weed here in North Texas. From Pam Slate: 22. Small bulbs of Lycoris radiata 23. Bulbs of Zephyranthes (Cooperia) drummondii 24. Bulbs of Zephyranthes 'Labuffarosea' 25. Bulbs of Habranthus magnoi 26. Bulbs of Oxalis stenorhyncha 27. Bulbs of Oxalis regnellii Thank you, Mary Sue, Jim J., Jim W., Rod, and Pam !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From santoury@aol.com Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF1ECA3F9DCAF0-1AB0-8FE7@webmail-d071.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Narcissus Nylon Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:10:48 -0400 (EDT) How cold hardy is this one? Thanks, Jude From butterflyamaryllis@yahoo.com Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1340398859.3693.YahooMailNeo@web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: Gladiolus ID Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:00:59 -0700 (PDT) Did you order cotton seeds from me at work? (I know of a scientist in New Orleans that is doing chemistry work with seeds of Malvaceae).   Cheers,     James Frelichowski   ________________________________ From: absousfabrice malvaceae To: "pbs@lists.ibiblio.org" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 2:40 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Gladiolus ID thanks i know Silverhill , i have many Malvaceae frome , what is the correct date to sow ? From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Begonia ID Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:00:47 -0700 I am forwarding an inquiry sent to the Pacific Bulb SOciety website regarding a Begonia. If we have any specialists in this genus, would you please reply privately to Dan Turner . >QUESTION: > I\'m particularly interested in Begonias. We found some beautiful > hanging baskets in the French countryside, and I have not been able > to duplicate here. I have Id\'d the plant as boliviensis, but just > sure of the variety. Can I send a photo to someone? Thank you, Dan From absousf@yahoo.fr Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1340403146.18058.YahooMailNeo@web28903.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: absousfabrice malvaceae Subject: Gladiolus ID Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:12:26 +0100 (BST) hello the Gladiolus is my hobby , Malvaceae are in my job , you work at cotton ? From john.bartlett72@yahoo.com Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1340404029.14818.YahooMailNeo@web120002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: John bartlett Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 314 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Mr. Sherk- From BX314, please send me, if available, one packet each of Nos: 18,20,21,22,25.  Thanks, John Bartlett (#81 LOng Road, Gettysburg, Pa., 17325) ________________________________ From: Dell Sherk To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 3:56 PM Subject: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society BX 314 Dear All,       The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared.   If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 314" in the subject line.         Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS.     Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org ....         If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds.             I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Mary Sue Ittner: Winter rainfall South African Oxalis bulbs (I usually plant and start watering in August as many of these are fall bloomers). 1. Oxalis callosa 2. Oxalis commutata 3. Oxalis depressa MV4871 4. Oxalis engleriana 5. Oxalis fabaefolia (Christiaan says this is now considered a form of flava) 6. Oxalis hirta 7. Oxalis hirta (mauve form) 8. Oxalis hirta 'Gothenburg' (giant form) 9. Oxalis melanosticta 'Ken Aslet' (blooms best in deep pot) 10. Oxalis palmifrons (grown for the leaves as most of us never see any flowers) 11. Oxalis purpurea (white flowers) 12. Oxalis purpurea 'Lavender & White' 13. Oxalis purpurea 'Skar' (pink flowers) 14. Oxalis zeekoevleyensis (one of the first to start into growth) 15. Very small bulbs of Tulipa batalini - winter growing 16. Seed of Haemanthus albiflos - evergreen From Jim Jones: 17. Small bulbs of Narcissus 'Nylon' From Jim Waddick: 18. Crinum bulbispermum 'Jumbo' seeds. This was originated from the late Crinum expert Les Hannibal and distributed by Marcelle Sheppard. This species does not pup a lot, so must be grown from seed for practical purposes. Totally hardy here in Kansas City Zone 5/6. Flowers open well in shades of light to dark pink. recommended and easy. 19. Seeds of Fritillaria persica. This is a tall clone with rich purple/brown flowers. Does not pup freely here, but quite hardy in Kansas City. 20. Seed of Camassia 'Sacajewea'. Flowers creamy white, foliage white thin white edges. Of 3 or 4 species grown, only this one has made seed. A good size plant may be a form of C. leichtlinii. From Rod Barton: 21. Various sized bulbs of the triploid Rhodophiala bifida heirloom. It's a veritable weed here in North Texas. From Pam Slate: 22. Small bulbs of Lycoris radiata 23. Bulbs of Zephyranthes (Cooperia) drummondii 24. Bulbs of Zephyranthes 'Labuffarosea' 25. Bulbs of Habranthus magnoi 26. Bulbs of Oxalis stenorhyncha 27. Bulbs of Oxalis regnellii Thank you, Mary Sue, Jim J., Jim W., Rod, and Pam !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From michaelcmace@gmail.com Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <008c01cd50d9$9cfc5400$d6f4fc00$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Calochortus report Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:45:52 -0700 Jane wrote: >> The bulb house is a scene of drying foliage and seed capsules now, except for the far side of the "dry" bed, where the Calochortus species are in full bloom Thanks for the wonderful verbal painting, Jane. If you have time, I'd love to see a few photos of that end of the bulb house. It sounds delightful. I got C. amabilis back into bloom this year after a several year absence, and right now C. weedi is in bloom, with enormous yellow bowls covered in hairs and spots on the inside. This one barely survived a midwinter assault by snails, who nearly chewed off the stem a few inches above the ground. But I got lucky, and the plant is tough. C. luteus just finished (it's a local form with stippling but no dark eyes on the petals). I also tried C. argillosus in the ground for the first time, inspired by what Bob Werra has done with his collection. It has taken very well to my low-nutrient clay subsoil, and I think confirms Jane's comments about the plants preferring to have an extensive root run. As long as I can keep the critters away from these things, I'll be trying more species in the ground. Folks, if you haven't tried Calochortus in the past, they are a bit particular but well worth the trouble. Mike San Jose, CA (zone 9, min temp 20F / -7C) From michaelcmace@gmail.com Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <008d01cd50d9$9e90d6b0$dbb28410$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Gladiolus ID Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:45:52 -0700 Fabrice wrote: >> i have buy this 4 species , could you please help me with identification ? Those are beautiful flowers, Fabrice! Where did you get them? When were the photos taken, and what part of the world do you garden in? That will help with identification. I don't have access to my Gladiolus book today, so all I can do is give a couple of guesses. I'm sure others can do better. Species 4 looks like one of the bluebell species, which are hard for me to tell apart (because of their variation). Could be something like G. gracilis or G. caeruleus or G. violaceo-lineatus. Species 3: I don't know what that one is, but I want it! Best, Mike San Jose, CA (zone 9, min temp 20F) -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 9:01 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 113, Issue 32 Send pbs mailing list submissions to pbs@lists.ibiblio.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org You can reach the person managing the list at pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Today's Topics: 1. Gladiolus ID (absousfabrice malvaceae) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:19:55 +0100 (BST) From: absousfabrice malvaceae Subject: [pbs] Gladiolus ID To: "pbs@lists.ibiblio.org" Message-ID: <1340223595.30677.YahooMailNeo@web28901.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 hello i have buy this 4 species , could you please help me with identification ? thanks Fabrice http://www.flickr.com/photos/25310876@N08/7409961936/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/25310876@N08/7409962126/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/25310876@N08/7409962226/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/25310876@N08/7409962004/in/photostream ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php End of pbs Digest, Vol 113, Issue 32 ************************************ From richrd@nas.com Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <67648BBF-8094-4933-8F51-63E52ADE1317@nas.com> From: Richard Subject: Calochortus alba ID Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:32:18 -0700 Here is Calochortus alba I found blooming in Butte County, Calif late April. A beautiful plant. Was able to return recently to collect a few seeds for propagation. http://flic.kr/p/ciWRWG Can anyone verify my ID? I have a pressed specimen. Rich H From msittner@mcn.org Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <20120623031947.9BDE4E8A97@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Calochortus alba ID Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:19:44 -0700 It certainly looks like Calochortus albus (note the difference in spelling.) At 06:32 PM 6/22/2012, you wrote: >Here is Calochortus alba I found blooming in Butte County From msittner@mcn.org Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <20120623033356.13DCBE8A9D@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Calochortus report Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:29:45 -0700 My Calochortus report is that something has decided the flowers are very tasty. Most of mine with just a few exceptions had the stems shortened before the buds opened. This has never happened to me before. I suspect the chipmunk that has been visiting my garden for the past two years, but when I've seen it, it moves so quickly I've never actually seen it with anything in its mouth. I suppose it could be birds as well. I suspect them of eating foliage, stealing tags, and planting sunflowers, millet, and tan oak acorns in my pots. They also pulled out and ate Lachenalias this year. Sigh. So I was very envious of Jane Calochortus report. Not all of us have the resources for a bulb house like hers, but it's wonderful that all of her planning has turned out so well. I've had good displays of flowers from many of my native bulbs in the Themidaceae family this year however (Brodiaea, Triteleia, Dichelostemma, Bloomeria). Mary Sue From absousf@yahoo.fr Fri, 22 Jun 2012 22:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1340428267.39437.YahooMailNeo@web28901.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: absousfabrice malvaceae Subject: Gladiolus ID Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:11:07 +0100 (BST) hello Mike do you would this ? : http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120907662260&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 and do you have seeds or corms ? for sale ? thanks fabrice From ds429@comcast.net Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:17:12 -0700 Message-Id: <810964362.1378028.1340448047070.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 314 Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:40:47 +0000 (UTC) I have received your order.   Best wishes, Dell   Dell Sherk, PBS BX ----- Original Message ----- From: "John bartlett" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 6:27:09 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society BX 314 Mr. Sherk- From BX314, please send me, if available, one packet each of Nos: 18,20,21,22,25.  Thanks, John Bartlett (#81 LOng Road, Gettysburg, Pa., 17325) ________________________________  From: Dell Sherk To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 3:56 PM Subject: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society BX 314   Dear All,        The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared.   If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 314" in the subject line.         Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS.      Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org ....          If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds.             I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! >From Mary Sue Ittner: Winter rainfall South African Oxalis bulbs (I usually plant and start watering in August as many of these are fall bloomers). 1. Oxalis callosa 2. Oxalis commutata 3. Oxalis depressa MV4871 4. Oxalis engleriana 5. Oxalis fabaefolia (Christiaan says this is now considered a form of flava) 6. Oxalis hirta 7. Oxalis hirta (mauve form) 8. Oxalis hirta 'Gothenburg' (giant form) 9. Oxalis melanosticta 'Ken Aslet' (blooms best in deep pot) 10. Oxalis palmifrons (grown for the leaves as most of us never see any flowers) 11. Oxalis purpurea (white flowers) 12. Oxalis purpurea 'Lavender & White' 13. Oxalis purpurea 'Skar' (pink flowers) 14. Oxalis zeekoevleyensis (one of the first to start into growth) 15. Very small bulbs of Tulipa batalini - winter growing 16. Seed of Haemanthus albiflos - evergreen >From Jim Jones: 17. Small bulbs of Narcissus 'Nylon' >From Jim Waddick: 18. Crinum bulbispermum 'Jumbo' seeds. This was originated from the late Crinum expert Les Hannibal and distributed by Marcelle Sheppard. This species does not pup a lot, so must be grown from seed for practical purposes. Totally hardy here in Kansas City Zone 5/6. Flowers open well in shades of light to dark pink. recommended and easy. 19. Seeds of Fritillaria persica. This is a tall clone with rich purple/brown flowers. Does not pup freely here, but quite hardy in Kansas City. 20. Seed of Camassia 'Sacajewea'. Flowers creamy white, foliage white thin white edges. Of 3 or 4 species grown, only this one has made seed. A good size plant may be a form of C. leichtlinii. >From Rod Barton: 21. Various sized bulbs of the triploid Rhodophiala bifida heirloom. It's a veritable weed here in North Texas. >From Pam Slate: 22. Small bulbs of Lycoris radiata 23. Bulbs of Zephyranthes (Cooperia) drummondii 24. Bulbs of Zephyranthes 'Labuffarosea' 25. Bulbs of Habranthus magnoi 26. Bulbs of Oxalis stenorhyncha 27. Bulbs of Oxalis regnellii Thank you, Mary Sue, Jim J., Jim W., Rod, and Pam !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Calochortus report Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:52:12 -0700 Mary Sue wrote, At 08:29 PM 6/22/2012, you wrote: >My Calochortus report is that something has decided the flowers are >very tasty. Most of mine with just a few exceptions had the stems >shortened before the buds opened. This happened for two years in my bulb frames, and the culprits were rabbits. I actually caught a pair of young ones in there after I had tried to protect the flowering stems with bird netting. Jane McGary From thegardenguru@yahoo.com Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1340476924.81287.YahooMailClassic@web45804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> From: Joseph Seals Subject: California bulbs for sandy soil Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:42:04 -0700 (PDT) I've navigated the PBS Wiki but couldn't find a good listing of bulbs for sandy soil. I have sandy-silt, silty-sand and I'm looking for dependable bulbs that thrive in such.  Natives or otherwise. California, USDA Zone 9, SWGB Zone 16/17. Help? Thanks, Joe Joseph SealsConsultantArroyo Grande, CaliforniaCell: 805-823-5696 New book: "Central Coast Gardening Essentials"more info at: www.centralcoastkitchenandgarden.com  From ds429@comcast.net Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1878498392.1392811.1340484700354.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: Fwd: PBS website contact:Moraea Aristata Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 20:51:40 +0000 (UTC) Inquiry to the PBS website ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "Maria Sepers" To: ds429@comcast.net Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 4:23:29 PM Subject: PBS website contact:Moraea Aristata   I have been searching the internet in order to find a grower of the above plant from whom I can purchase one. The only sellers I have found are outside the US. Do you sell your plants? If not, would you be able to refer me to someone in the US who does? Thank you. -- Pacific Bulb Society web site email: website@pacificbulbsociety.org _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: California bulbs for sandy soil Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:29:26 -0700 Joe asked, >I have sandy-silt, silty-sand and I'm looking for dependable bulbs >that thrive in such. Natives or otherwise. > >California, USDA Zone 9, SWGB Zone 16/17. Almost all bulbs can be grown in this type of soil as long as you supply them with a little extra fertility and plant them deeply so they will be cool enough during their dormant period. I grow hundreds of Mediterranean-climate species, including California natives, in pure coarse sand over a layer of compost and clay, and when I had them in pots, my soil mix was half sand and one-quarter ground pumice. I fertilize them once in fall and three times in spring with soluble fertilizer (Miracle-Grow Blossom Booster) at half strength. As for dependable, you will have to experiment with that! Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Moraea aristata Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:31:26 -0700 The following inquiry has been received on the PBS website. If you can help Maria, please write to her directly. DO NOT reply to the PBS list, because she is not on it. From: "Maria Sepers" To: ds429@comcast.net Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 4:23:29 PM Subject: PBS website contact:Moraea Aristata  I have been searching the internet in order to find a grower of the above plant from whom I can purchase one. The only sellers I have found are outside the US. Do you sell your plants? If not, would you be able to refer me to someone in the US who does? Thank you From clayton3120@cablespeed.com Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: clayton3120 clayton3120 Subject: Moraea aristata Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:05:12 -0700 PBS is a great resource, in so many ways. I'm passing on many of my South African bulbs, so Maria gets the Moraea. Lilium dauricum color forms are probably going to open this week. I have the yellow, orange, red, and pink forms. I'm just wondering if their is an apricot or peach form. Anyone? Rick K On 6/23/12, Jane McGary wrote: > The following inquiry has been received on the > PBS website. If you can help Maria, please write > to her directly. DO NOT reply to the PBS list, because she is not on it. > > From: "Maria Sepers" > To: ds429@comcast.net Sent: Saturday, June 23, > 2012 4:23:29 PM Subject: PBS website > contact:Moraea Aristata  I have been searching > the internet in order to find a grower of the > above plant from whom I can purchase one. The > only sellers I have found are outside the US. Do > you sell your plants? If not, would you be able > to refer me to someone in the US who does? Thank you > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From maxwithers@gmail.com Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Max Withers Subject: A wide cross in "Liliaceae" Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 21:31:05 -0700 An article in last July's Pacific Horticulture about Luther Burbank's work on Lilies mentioned almost as aside that Burbank successfully crossed Lilium pardalinum and Trillium ovatum, although he was unable to propagate the offspring. If I didn't actually gasp, I at least whistled out loud when I read this, it seemed so unlikely. Further internet research has reinforced my doubts, as I tracked down the following chromosome counts: Lilium pardalinum 2n=24 Trillium ovatum 2n=10 I don't see how such a cross would have been possible, but I have a feeble grasp of genetics, math, and plant breeding, Can anyone correct me? Best, Max Withers Oakland CA From tim@gingerwoodnursery.com Sun, 24 Jun 2012 04:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <882BA418-BF68-41AA-9BFF-142A0438B01F@gingerwoodnursery.com> From: Tim Chapman Subject: A wide cross in "Liliaceae" Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 06:05:34 -0500 On Jun 23, 2012, at 11:31 PM, Max Withers wrote: successfully > crossed Lilium pardalinum and Trillium ovatum, > Further > internet research has reinforced my doubts, as I tracked down the > following chromosome counts: > > Lilium pardalinum 2n=24 > > Trillium ovatum 2n=10 > > I can't comment on the specifics of those species. Regarding similar accounts and such here are some things that I've decided: If an amazing probably impossible cross was made yet no proof is given and no offspring exists, and nobody has been able to recreate it.. It never happened. In regards to chromosome incompatibility, it is extremely rare that the person making a cross is the same person that did the chromosome studies. Ie numerous issues exist including misidentified plants and the existence of different chromosome counts within a species. So if the hybrid does exist then the chances are the chromosome numbers probably did match, just not to the documented numbers for those species. However, plants can do weird things and still end up being compatible. I use published chromosome numbers as a guide to what could work, but not to eliminate anything. It's basically impossible for the average person to truly know what count all of their plants are. Even some things that "should not" work do and some that should don't. Experiment !! Tim Chapman From jshields@indy.net Sun, 24 Jun 2012 05:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20120624073545.05e00e30@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: A wide cross in "Liliaceae" Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 07:47:07 -0400 This is a perennial issue in the plant community. Basically, Tim and Max are right, as far as I can see (I'm a biochemist, not a geneticist). On the other hand, I did see some wide intergeneric hybrids in Amaryllidaceae 20-30 years ago at a small USDA experimental station just outside Washington DC. The hybrids required embryo rescue -- in vitro culture -- to survive. They had essentially no endosperm with the embryos, as I recall. The work was done by Margot Williams working in Dr. Bill Ackerman's lab. I don't recall what cytogenetics Margot may have done, but the plants themselves were clearly "monsters." Grossly distorted leaves and flowers. Some had very heavy textures, so might have been spontaneous polyploids. And those were all within the Amaryllidaceae. I don't know if the work got published before Margot had to leave Bill's lab or not. So, it can happen; but without compelling evidence at the DNA level, we have to assume that they are in 999 cases out of 1000, the product of someone's wishful thinking. I think this might well have been the case with Burbank's wide hybrid; but regardless, there is only hearsay evidence that would never stand up in court or a scientific journal. Jim Shields At 06:05 AM 6/24/2012 -0500, you wrote: >On Jun 23, 2012, at 11:31 PM, Max Withers wrote: > successfully > > crossed Lilium pardalinum and Trillium ovatum, > > > Further > > internet research has reinforced my doubts, as I tracked down the > > following chromosome counts: > > > > Lilium pardalinum 2n=24 > > > > Trillium ovatum 2n=10 > > > > > >I can't comment on the specifics of those species. Regarding similar >accounts and such here are some things that I've decided: > >If an amazing probably impossible cross was made yet no proof is given and >no offspring exists, and nobody has been able to recreate it.. It never >happened. > >In regards to chromosome incompatibility, it is extremely rare that the >person making a cross is the same person that did the chromosome >studies. Ie numerous issues exist including misidentified plants and the >existence of different chromosome counts within a species. So if the >hybrid does exist then the chances are the chromosome numbers probably did >match, just not to the documented numbers for those species. However, >plants can do weird things and still end up being compatible. > >I use published chromosome numbers as a guide to what could work, but not >to eliminate anything. It's basically impossible for the average person >to truly know what count all of their plants are. Even some things that >"should not" work do and some that should don't. Experiment !! > >Tim Chapman >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From thegardenguru@yahoo.com Sun, 24 Jun 2012 12:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1340562364.44413.YahooMailClassic@web45803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> From: Joseph Seals Subject: A wide cross in "Liliaceae" Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 11:26:04 -0700 (PDT) This is what Burbank said in METHODS AND DISCOVERIES AND PRACTICAL APPLICATION PREPARED FROM HIS ORIGINAL FIELD NOTES COVERING MORE THAN 100,000 EXPERIMENTS MADE DURING FORTY YEARS DEVOTED TO PLANT IMPROVEMENT WITH THE ASSISTANCE OF The Luther Burbank Society AND ITS ENTIRE MEMBERSHIP UNDER THE EDITORIAL DIRECTION OF John Whitson and Robert John AND Henry Smith Williams, M« D., LL« D, Volume IX : "Another interesting hybridization was that effected between the pardalinum and a species of the native trillium, a plant familiar in our woods under the name of drooping night-shade. The trillium is, of course, a lily, but, like Alstroemeria, it belongs to a different genus from the leopard lily, and its strikingly different appear- ance has already been referred to. The hybrids produced by this strange union were dwarfs with broad, lily-like foliage, with blos- soms that resembled those of the trillium — having three very broad, flat, greenish-white or yellow petals, and three narrower petals, like sepals. A plant that thus bore a close resemblance as to foliage and general appearance to the leopard lily, yet which had blossoms like those of the wake- robin (though somewhat larger and coarser) made a very striking and interesting exhibit. The species of trillium used in this cross was the common native Trillium ovatum. The hybrids, although in themselves so interest- ing, proved lacking in vitality, and notwithstanding my efforts all died — ^not, however, before I had secured photographs of the strange trillium-lily combination. Among all my experiments with the lilies* there is perhaps no other result quite as interesting as this hybridization with the trillium. Its results suggest the desirability of further experiments along similar lines. There is an almost boundless opportunity for new series of investigations with members of this very extensive group. The plants may readily be cross-fertilized by the amateur, and interesting re- results must follow almost as a matter of course." Joe Joseph SealsConsultantArroyo Grande, CaliforniaCell: 805-823-5696 New book: "Central Coast Gardening Essentials"more info at: www.centralcoastkitchenandgarden.com  --- On Sat, 6/23/12, Max Withers wrote: From: Max Withers Subject: [pbs] A wide cross in "Liliaceae" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Saturday, June 23, 2012, 9:31 PM An article in last July's Pacific Horticulture about Luther Burbank's work on Lilies mentioned almost as aside that Burbank successfully crossed Lilium pardalinum and Trillium ovatum, although he was unable to propagate the offspring. If I didn't actually gasp, I at least whistled out loud when I read this, it seemed so unlikely. Further internet research has reinforced my doubts, as I tracked down the following chromosome counts: Lilium pardalinum 2n=24 Trillium ovatum 2n=10 I don't see how such a cross would have been possible, but I have a feeble grasp of genetics, math, and plant breeding,   Can anyone correct me? Best, Max Withers Oakland CA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From dkramb@badbear.com Sun, 24 Jun 2012 14:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Manfreda "Chocolate Chips" Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 16:49:14 -0400 While browsing at the local nursery I found something that caught my eye: Manfreda "Chocolate Chips" Nurseries around here don't typically carry what I consider to be "southwest" plants. So I was really surprised to find not just a southwest plant... but a Manfreda... a genus that I am kinda in lust with. (I'm growing oodles of Polianthes, Manfreda, and Bravoa from BX seed in the hopes of crossing them with my Manfreda virginica. And I'm really surprised how well many of them do as indoor houseplants year round, although none are old enough to bloom yet.) There were 3 specimens left (all of them were passed blooming) so I picked the one that had the most seed pods (5 of them!). I had a gift card as well, so this plant only cost me $7.50 (instead of $20 -- which is cheap considering Yucca Do (the originator of this plant) sells it for $18.50). The real trick was driving it home. Luckily I had my jeep, and the top was off, and I managed to prop it up just right to make it home safely. http://www.badbear.com/dkramb/20120624_162611.jpg That bloom stalk is about 6 feet tall. So now I have to research the wiki and the googlenets to find out the best way to grow this at my home. I'm guessing potted, so it can be brought indoors for winter. Very excited on a very "southwest" hot day in southwest Ohio... Dennis in Cincinnati From jmsjon664@aol.com Sun, 24 Jun 2012 20:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF208FC3985DB8-524-12637@webmail-d153.sysops.aol.com> From: "James L. Jones" Subject: Narcissus Nylon Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 22:17:11 -0400 (EDT) Quite dependable down to 20oF. Jim Jones -----Original Message----- From: The Silent Seed To: pbs Sent: Fri, Jun 22, 2012 4:11 pm Subject: [pbs] Narcissus Nylon How cold hardy is this one? Thanks, Jude From meneice@att.net Sun, 24 Jun 2012 21:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: "meneice" Subject: A wide cross in "Liliaceae" Att: Tim Chapman and Jim Shields Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 21:05:55 -0700 I love your attitude! Bill has had some remarkable success hybridizing Camellias for cold hardiness, and I would guess they were not always compatible crosses. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, so have at it, PBSers. You could come up with something great. Shirley Meneice -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of J.E. Shields Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2012 4:47 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] A wide cross in "Liliaceae" This is a perennial issue in the plant community. Basically, Tim and Max are right, as far as I can see (I'm a biochemist, not a geneticist). On the other hand, I did see some wide intergeneric hybrids in Amaryllidaceae 20-30 years ago at a small USDA experimental station just outside Washington DC. The hybrids required embryo rescue -- in vitro culture -- to survive. They had essentially no endosperm with the embryos, as I recall. The work was done by Margot Williams working in Dr. Bill Ackerman's lab. I don't recall what cytogenetics Margot may have done, but the plants themselves were clearly "monsters." Grossly distorted leaves and flowers. Some had very heavy textures, so might have been spontaneous polyploids. And those were all within the Amaryllidaceae. I don't know if the work got published before Margot had to leave Bill's lab or not. So, it can happen; but without compelling evidence at the DNA level, we have to assume that they are in 999 cases out of 1000, the product of someone's wishful thinking. I think this might well have been the case with Burbank's wide hybrid; but regardless, there is only hearsay evidence that would never stand up in court or a scientific journal. Jim Shields At 06:05 AM 6/24/2012 -0500, you wrote: >On Jun 23, 2012, at 11:31 PM, Max Withers wrote: > successfully > > crossed Lilium pardalinum and Trillium ovatum, > > > Further > > internet research has reinforced my doubts, as I tracked down the > > following chromosome counts: > > > > Lilium pardalinum 2n=24 > > > > Trillium ovatum 2n=10 > > > > > >I can't comment on the specifics of those species. Regarding similar >accounts and such here are some things that I've decided: > >If an amazing probably impossible cross was made yet no proof is given and >no offspring exists, and nobody has been able to recreate it.. It never >happened. > >In regards to chromosome incompatibility, it is extremely rare that the >person making a cross is the same person that did the chromosome >studies. Ie numerous issues exist including misidentified plants and the >existence of different chromosome counts within a species. So if the >hybrid does exist then the chances are the chromosome numbers probably did >match, just not to the documented numbers for those species. However, >plants can do weird things and still end up being compatible. > >I use published chromosome numbers as a guide to what could work, but not >to eliminate anything. It's basically impossible for the average person >to truly know what count all of their plants are. Even some things that >"should not" work do and some that should don't. Experiment !! > >Tim Chapman >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From michaelcmace@gmail.com Mon, 25 Jun 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <008401cd52fd$21909760$64b1c620$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: A wide cross in "Liliaceae" Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 11:05:39 -0700 Thanks everyone for this very interesting thread. To add a bit to the discussion on chromosome numbers, my amateur experience so far has been that the "rules" apply very thoroughly until they don't, and you cannot know where the boundaries are until you test them. Case in point, in the work I've been doing with Moraeas, most of the species I am crossing (M. aristata, gigandra, neopavonia, etc) all have the same chromosome number, 2n=12. However, some are 2n=24 (M. villosa, tulbaghensis). In other words they have double the number of chromosomes. Here's what is supposed to happen: --Crosses between the 12-chromosome species should have a good chance of being fertile. --Crosses between the 24-chromosome species should have a good chance of being fertile. --Crosses between the 12- and 24- chromosome species should produce "triploids" that may be vigorous but are almost always infertile, because they do not inherit a matched set of chromosomes. So what happens in real life? --Many of the crosses that are 12 x 12 produce plants with withered anthers, little or no pollen, and sometimes won't even set seed if pollinated from something else. That makes them a dead end for breeding. --Many of the 12 x 24 crosses produce plants with abundant pollen, and they set seed readily. One more data point: a famous cross in Moraea history was speciosa x polystachya, which is 20 x 12. It was important because M. speciosa does not look like a traditional Moraea at all. I wish I had the capability to do a chromosome count on these things myself. In the absence of that, my philosophy is to cross everything and see what happens. Comments/suggestions from the more experienced and educated people on the list would be deeply appreciated. Mike San Jose, CA From meneice@att.net Mon, 25 Jun 2012 13:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: "meneice" Subject: A wide cross in "Liliaceae" Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 12:47:19 -0700 I certainly am not among the more educated, but I have been hybridizing, or attempting to hybridize, Camellias for over 40 years. I have come to the same general conclusion as Mike Mace. Under ideal conditions of weather, pollen, bloom times etc., I have had success crossing species with different chromosome counts. In the Camellia world, the C. japonica x C. sasanqua cross in England years ago produced a notable group of hybrids. Howard Asper, in this country also had remarkable success with crosses between C. japonica and C. reticulata. If the so-called rules had applied, those crosses should never have been attempted as they were doomed to failure. So I repeat, have at it. We amateurs have nothing to lose but our time, so why not try the impossible? You might have a notable success! Shirley Meneice Pebble Beach, CA (now Zone 10) Lots of seed pods on this year's Retics and some of the Camellia species! Comments/suggestions from the more experienced and educated people on the list would be deeply appreciated. Mike San Jose, CA From tim@gingerwoodnursery.com Mon, 25 Jun 2012 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <114E8E88-B192-44DD-8F5B-928BB08201AF@gingerwoodnursery.com> From: Tim Chapman Subject: A wide cross in "Liliaceae" Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 15:40:10 -0500 On Jun 25, 2012, at 1:05 PM, "Michael Mace" wrote: > . > > So what happens in real life? > > --Many of the crosses that are 12 x 12 produce plants with withered anthers, > little or no pollen, and sometimes won't even set seed if pollinated from > something else. That makes them a dead end for breeding. > > --Many of the 12 x 24 crosses produce plants with abundant pollen, and they > set seed readily. > > > One more data point: a famous cross in Moraea history was speciosa x > polystachya, which is 20 x 12. It was important because M. speciosa does > not look like a traditional Moraea at all. > > Some comments: to start the info I looked at shows 12 for both polystachya and speciosa. The reference for speciosa was more recent. This illustrates one of the main issues with counts. It's rare to find a complete list of numbers in a genus all determined by the same method and by the same researchers. Most compilations are incomplete and reflect varying numbers by different researchers etc. If the group you are looking at has B chromosomes then the older reports are often even more variable. As to the other quoted parts. With the 12x12 species crosses you've done it would seem there are natural barriers in the way. Unfortunately this is very common (makes sense in the wild, but to a hybridizer this is just a stupid concept!). Your 12x24s are probably tetraploids and it would not be uncommon to have bypassed barriers in the tetraploid forms. Triploids aren't always the case in that kind of cross. Tim Chapman From maxwithers@gmail.com Mon, 25 Jun 2012 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FE8CEB8.3080107@gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: A wide cross in "Liliaceae" Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 13:48:56 -0700 Thank you all for your comments and especially Joe for quoting the original source. For what it's worth, the only online database I know that includes chromosome counts is http://www.tropicos.org/ but it is hardly complete. On 6/25/12 1:40 PM, Tim Chapman wrote: > Some comments: to start the info I looked at shows 12 for both polystachya and speciosa. The reference for speciosa was more recent. This illustrates one of the main issues with counts. It's rare to find a complete list of numbers in a genus all determined by the same method and by the same researchers. Most compilations are incomplete and reflect varying numbers by different researchers etc. If the group you are looking at has B chromosomes then the older reports are often even more variable. > > As to the other quoted parts. With the 12x12 species crosses you've done it would seem there are natural barriers in the way. Unfortunately this is very common (makes sense in the wild, but to a hybridizer this is just a stupid concept!). Your 12x24s are probably tetraploids and it would n From clayton3120@cablespeed.com Mon, 25 Jun 2012 19:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: clayton3120 clayton3120 Subject: A wide cross in "Liliaceae" Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 19:01:28 -0700 In my years of experience, chromosome #'s are a guide, but hardly a given, as I've made many crosses, many of which should've NEVER been fertile, and successful, but have taken, and produced seed. Crocus species which are supposedly incompatible have crossed. One has nothing to lose by experimenting. If you go by the book, you lose. Nature abhors rules, apparently. I think curiosity and an adventurous mind will always drive a hybridizer to achieve the unachievable. Rick K On 6/25/12, Max Withers wrote: > Thank you all for your comments and especially Joe for quoting the > original source. For what it's worth, the only online database I know > that includes chromosome counts is > > http://www.tropicos.org/ > > but it is hardly complete. > > > On 6/25/12 1:40 PM, Tim Chapman wrote: >> Some comments: to start the info I looked at shows 12 for both >> polystachya and speciosa. The reference for speciosa was more recent. >> This illustrates one of the main issues with counts. It's rare to find a >> complete list of numbers in a genus all determined by the same method and >> by the same researchers. Most compilations are incomplete and reflect >> varying numbers by different researchers etc. If the group you are >> looking at has B chromosomes then the older reports are often even more >> variable. >> >> As to the other quoted parts. With the 12x12 species crosses you've done >> it would seem there are natural barriers in the way. Unfortunately this >> is very common (makes sense in the wild, but to a hybridizer this is just >> a stupid concept!). Your 12x24s are probably tetraploids and it would n > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From Ben.Zonneveld@naturalis.nl Tue, 26 Jun 2012 08:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1F470697F8655C48BC74727C54AE3A026316CD@NNMS83.nnm.local> From: "Zonneveld, B.J.M." Subject: chromosome numbers are irrelevant in making crosses Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 08:19:42 +0000 chromosome numbers are irrelevant to get results in making crosses. Just relatedness counts. I made crosses between a sedum that is twentyploid with a graptopetalum that is twelveploid or with a sedum that is diploid. It is only the next generation where problems might arise. There is usually no problem to cross dipliods with tetraploids. Only the resulting triploid is usually largely sterile. Another example: humans and guppies ( fishes) have the same chromosome number 2n=46 I don't think they cross although seeing some people....................(Joke) Ben J.M.Zonneveld NCB Naturalis, Herbarium Section Pobox 9515, 2300 RA Leiden The Netherlands Telf: +31 71 5274738 From santoury@aol.com Tue, 26 Jun 2012 07:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF21BC41F40A2C-16C0-12B8D@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Pseudodracontium Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 10:08:12 -0400 (EDT) I've just learned that this genus has been moved over to Amorphophallus. I see that a couple places still sell their Pseudodracontiums under this genus. Just a heads-up so those of you who grow Pseudodracontium can make the appropriate changes in inventory, or on tags. Best, Jude ______________________________________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you want to receive my plant newsletters via email? santoury@aol.com The Silent Seed - Rare and Unusual Plants ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dkramb@badbear.com Tue, 26 Jun 2012 08:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Canna flaccida, surprise hardiness Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 10:20:37 -0400 Yesterday I noticed a bud on Canna flaccida when I left for work. When I got home the bud was much bigger and showing color. When I looked again an hour later the bud was opened! Last year I missed it entirely and I only saw the spent bloom. This year I practically got to watch it open. I can detect a faint pleasant aroma, but only barely. I snapped some photos but I didn't have time to download them and resize them this morning. I'll try to do it this evening. DK On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 10:10 AM, Dennis Kramb wrote: > So this wasn't the coldest winter for Cincinnati, but I have a surprise to > report.  Canna flaccida that I grew from BX seed survived its first winter > outdoors, in pots, ABOVE ground.  I had so many extra seeds that I was > willing to sacrifice these to test their hardiness.  Imagine my surprise! > > Another surprise is that my tropical Canna hybrids that grew from self-sown > seeds are coming back for their 2nd year in the ground next to the house. > They're literally inches away from the house, so obviously getting enough > warmth to enable them to over winter.  (The parent plants died their first > winter, and they were located 2 feet from the house.)  Maybe this year > they'll be big enough to bloom? > > Thanks Dr. Jim for donating these Bandana of the Everglades seeds!  :-) > From greg@alpacamanagement.com Tue, 26 Jun 2012 19:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Greg Ruckert" Subject: Pseudodracontium Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 07:37:09 +0930 Jude, have been waiting for this for years but still haven't seen it published. What was it done in? Cheers, Greg Ruckert Nairne, South Australia > I've just learned that this genus has been moved over to Amorphophallus. I > see that a couple places still sell their Pseudodracontiums under this > genus. Just a heads-up so those of you who grow Pseudodracontium can make > the appropriate changes in inventory, or on tags. > Best, Jude From munrosj27@yahoo.com Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1340749154.1696.YahooMailNeo@web162403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: stephen munro Subject: Lily photos from the "State of Jefferson" Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:19:14 -0700 (PDT) I was lucky to time my trip down to the Siskiyou Mountains of Oregon and California to coincide with the blooming of a couple rare Lily species and one Calochortus species..  They are Lilium bolanderi, Lilium vollmeri (pardalinum subsp. vollmeri if you want) and Calochortus howelli.  Unfortunately I could not find Lilium wigginsi and I was a couple weeks early to catch L. washingtonianum and kellogii as I found one lily that appeared to be one or the other in bud.    The clump of Vollmer's lily I photographed was amazing.  Dozens and dozens of them with numerous flower heads growing up to or above 90 cm. I hope they will stay safe and undug.   The weather was poor down there with rain and lows in the thirties and highs just into the fifties.  To my disappointment the weather there as of this afternoon and into the weekend will be in the 80s and clear.  Thats the breaks!   Enjoy,   Stephen Munro Seattle   The link is here. www.flickr.com/stephenmunro ________________________________ From: Jane McGary To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Calochortus report Mary Sue wrote, At 08:29 PM 6/22/2012, you wrote: >My Calochortus report is that something has decided the flowers are >very tasty.  Most of mine with just a few exceptions had the stems >shortened before the buds opened. This happened for two years in my bulb frames, and the culprits were rabbits. I actually caught a pair of young ones in there after I had tried to protect the flowering stems with bird netting. Jane McGary From jshields@indy.net Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20120626182605.0516cdd8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: What's in Bloom: June 26 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 18:34:36 -0400 We have Hymenocallis in bloom, in the lath house and on the deck. These are all from Mexico originally. Hymenocallis imperialis living entirely up to its original name -- "Big Fatty." Hymenocallis eucharidifolia in the lath house -- looking a bit exotic and delightful, but soooo delicate and tender! Hymenocallis glauca -- looking alot like eucharidifolia except for glauca having glaucous foliage and being tougher. On the deck in full sun. Hymenocallis durangoensis Hymenocallis guerreroensis -- looks alot like durangoensis but has already bloomed out. The differences are subtle. Some pictures are in my blog at: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Blogs/Garden/index.html#jun25.12 under yesterday's date. Jim Shields in Central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From randysgarden@gmail.com Tue, 26 Jun 2012 17:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Randall P. Linke" Subject: Lily photos from the "State of Jefferson" Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:55:04 -0700 What lovely pictures! I keep hoping to get into the California Cascades again. It has been so long since I have been up into the mountains, either the Cascades or the Sierras. Your photos inspire me to do all I can to make this happen. Randy, Monterey Bay Region, California On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 3:19 PM, stephen munro wrote: > I was lucky to time my trip down to the Siskiyou Mountains of Oregon and > California to coincide with the blooming of a couple rare Lily species and > one Calochortus species.. They are Lilium bolanderi, Lilium vollmeri > (pardalinum subsp. vollmeri if you want) and Calochortus > howelli. Unfortunately I could not find Lilium wigginsi and I was a couple > weeks early to catch L. washingtonianum and kellogii as I found one lily > that appeared to be one or the other in bud. > > The clump of Vollmer's lily I photographed was amazing. Dozens and dozens > of them with numerous flower heads growing up to or above 90 cm. I hope > they will stay safe and undug. > > The weather was poor down there with rain and lows in the thirties and > highs just into the fifties. To my disappointment the weather there as of > this afternoon and into the weekend will be in the 80s and clear. Thats > the breaks! > > Enjoy, > > Stephen Munro > Seattle > > The link is here. www.flickr.com/stephenmunro > > > ________________________________ > From: Jane McGary > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 9:52 AM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Calochortus report > > Mary Sue wrote, > At 08:29 PM 6/22/2012, you wrote: > >My Calochortus report is that something has decided the flowers are > >very tasty. Most of mine with just a few exceptions had the stems > >shortened before the buds opened. > > This happened for two years in my bulb frames, and the culprits were > rabbits. I actually caught a pair of young ones in there after I had > tried to protect the flowering stems with bird netting. > > Jane McGary > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- * * A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right. - Thomas Paine --- * * From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue, 26 Jun 2012 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Lily photos from the "State of Jefferson" Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 17:50:16 -0700 Lovely photos by Stephen Munro! I'm glad to know his camera started working again, and that he didn't have to depend for a photo of C. howellii on the one he took here with his phone. I enjoyed talking with Stephen; he says he is the youngest member of the Northwestern chapter of NARGS, and I hope he can recruit some contemporaries into both it and the PBS. The "State of Jefferson" in his subject line refers to a sporadic movement to combine southern Oregon and northern California into a separate state. Rural, resource-exploiting, and libertarian interests drove it, but with gentrified Ashland and Arcata in the mix, how would that work? Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From randysgarden@gmail.com Tue, 26 Jun 2012 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Randall P. Linke" Subject: Lily photos from the "State of Jefferson" Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 18:07:38 -0700 Though off topic, I think your questions re the questionable viability of the "State of Jeffeson" to be quite valid. Having lived in Mendocino, I can't imagine the Mat-Eel community or Ashland going along with the core values the proponents of this movement. Randy On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Jane McGary wrote: > Lovely photos by Stephen Munro! I'm glad to know his camera started > working again, and that he didn't have to depend for a photo of C. > howellii on the one he took here with his phone. I enjoyed talking > with Stephen; he says he is the youngest member of the Northwestern > chapter of NARGS, and I hope he can recruit some contemporaries into > both it and the PBS. > > The "State of Jefferson" in his subject line refers to a sporadic > movement to combine southern Oregon and northern California into a > separate state. Rural, resource-exploiting, and libertarian interests > drove it, but with gentrified Ashland and Arcata in the mix, how > would that work? > > Jane McGary > Portland, Oregon, USA > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- * * A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right. - Thomas Paine --- * * From santoury@aol.com Tue, 26 Jun 2012 19:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF221C03225483-16C0-18F98@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Pseudodracontium Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:33:39 -0400 (EDT) It will be published soon by the IAS (Int'l Aroid Society) Cheers, Jude From tim@gingerwoodnursery.com Tue, 26 Jun 2012 20:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <0D6F1A6C-812A-4492-8082-82D706F5DA5D@gingerwoodnursery.com> From: Tim Chapman Subject: Pseudodracontium Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:19:57 -0500 From previous experience I can say that trying to implement name changes before they are official is a waste of time. I'm not doubting that this change will happen, but it was suggested well over a decade ago. To expect nurseries to change names now is somewhat ridiculous (no offense). Technically to list something as A harmandii is invalid until an official publication is made. I can give several examples of why jumping the gun on name changes is a bad idea. It can indeed lead to MUCH more confusion. Tim Chapman On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:33 PM, The Silent Seed wrote: > > > > It will be published soon by the IAS (Int'l Aroid Society) Cheers, Jude > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From vc2m@mac.com Tue, 26 Jun 2012 20:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: VIJAY CHANDHOK Subject: Lily photos from the "State of Jefferson" Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 02:43:09 +0000 (GMT) Few years ago we did the Lily Chase trip looking for species Lilies Washington, Oregon and northern California, we were on the road for a week with some friends who knew the locations. It was a great trip, to see photos of the Lilies and the surrounding area check out my site http://vijayc.smugmug.com/Flowers/Lily-Chase/5469812_QCcQJb#!i=334407418&k=CrBuf Vijay Another trek I took was to Gangotri National Forest India near the Gomukh glacier the source of Ganges river looking for the species Lily L. polyphylium, we were lucky to be there in early July to see them in bloom at elevation of about 11,000 ft to 12,000 ft. The photos from this are on page 3 of http://vijayc.smugmug.com/Travel/Gangotri-Gomukh-July-2009-1/9019881_t7JCc9#!i=600038063&k=BDcaK Vijay On Jun 26, 2012, at 04:55 PM, "Randall P. Linke" wrote: > What lovely pictures! I keep hoping to get into the California Cascades > again. It has been so long since I have been up into the mountains, either > the Cascades or the Sierras. Your photos inspire me to do all I can to > make this happen. > > Randy, > Monterey Bay Region, California > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 3:19 PM, stephen munro wrote: > > > I was lucky to time my trip down to the Siskiyou Mountains of Oregon and > > California to coincide with the blooming of a couple rare Lily species and > > one Calochortus species.. They are Lilium bolanderi, Lilium vollmeri > > (pardalinum subsp. vollmeri if you want) and Calochortus > > howelli. Unfortunately I could not find Lilium wigginsi and I was a couple > > weeks early to catch L. washingtonianum and kellogii as I found one lily > > that appeared to be one or the other in bud. > > > > The clump of Vollmer's lily I photographed was amazing. Dozens and dozens > > of them with numerous flower heads growing up to or above 90 cm. I hope > > they will stay safe and undug. > > > > The weather was poor down there with rain and lows in the thirties and > > highs just into the fifties. To my disappointment the weather there as of > > this afternoon and into the weekend will be in the 80s and clear. Thats > > the breaks! > > > > Enjoy, > > > > Stephen Munro > > Seattle > > > > The link is here. www.flickr.com/stephenmunro > > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From maxwithers@gmail.com Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Max Withers Subject: Pseudodracontium Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 20:19:38 -0700 I just learned that Mimulus is no more. I hadn't even adjusted to the genus being moved to Phrymaceae. I don't even object to the process, or the principle, it's just harder to keep up the older I get. Certainly the common names are more stable. Anyway, if you grow a monkeyflower, it's (probably) now an Erythranthe. I certainly wouldn't expect nurseries to change their names soon. Best, Max (See http://www.flickr.com/photos/mark_egger_castilleja/collections/72157623765518454/ for details on the Mimulus revision). On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 7:19 PM, Tim Chapman wrote: > >From previous experience I can say that trying to implement name changes before they are official is a waste of time.  I'm not doubting that this change will happen, but it was suggested well over a decade ago.  To expect nurseries to change names now is somewhat ridiculous (no offense).  Technically to list something as A harmandii is invalid until an official publication is made. > > I can give several examples of why jumping the gun on name changes is a bad idea.   It can indeed lead to MUCH more confusion. > > Tim Chapman > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:33 PM, The Silent Seed wrote: > >> >> >> >> It will be published soon by the IAS (Int'l Aroid Society)    Cheers,   Jude >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From santoury@aol.com Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF222EFD661AED-16C0-1981C@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Pseudodracontium Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 23:49:29 -0400 (EDT) Some of us like our lists to be up-to-date, and accurate, that's all. I figured some of you would want to know. From othonna@gmail.com Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Pseudodracontium Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:05:32 -0700 Tim, Agreed. There is also the possibility (seems doubtful in this case) that the change may go over like a lead balloon in the scientific community. It is after all a proposal, a somewhat subjective one, that aims to arrange things better than before. It doesn't always "take". Recently there has been talk that Sauromatum would be subsumed under Typhonium but apparently this was reconsidered. Same with Albuca vs. Ornithogalum, though this was a little more complicated with internal rearrangements. A heartbreaker was Kleinia saginata, a name published at last for a plant hortists had called Senecio fulleri for many years. Dylan Hannon On 26 June 2012 19:19, Tim Chapman wrote: > >From previous experience I can say that trying to implement name changes > before they are official is a waste of time. I'm not doubting that this > change will happen, but it was suggested well over a decade ago. To expect > nurseries to change names now is somewhat ridiculous (no offense). > Technically to list something as A harmandii is invalid until an official > publication is made. > > I can give several examples of why jumping the gun on name changes is a > bad idea. It can indeed lead to MUCH more confusion. > > Tim Chapman > > From norwesgard@earthlink.net Tue, 26 Jun 2012 23:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <7CAF7FC6-95FA-4EA4-8212-C7D4740B7244@earthlink.net> From: Mary Gutierrez Subject: appreciating this list Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 22:38:22 -0700 I was struck by the beauty and diversity of the photos showing plants and scenery that were posted by list members today. This mailing list allows me to appreciate natural beauty that I will likely never see in person. And I have a bulb question -- I apologize if this question has been asked and answered in this forum before, and I missed it. Anyway, I grow my South African bulbs in pots in an unheated greenhouse, and after the winter bloomers go dormant and the weather warms up, I move them onto racks outside where they will spend the summer. Some creature is rearranging my bulbs. We have squirrels in the neighborhood, but I don't usually have them in my garden because of my dog. Would other rodents do this? (ick) Raccoons? Something digs in the pots in the early summer (now), and in the winter I find lachenalia coming up in the sparaxis. I don't contribute to the PBS list conversations often, but I always appreciate what I see and read. Thanks, Mary G. Seattle PS. Thanks to Nathan Lange, I was able to import some Crinum macowanii seed last winter. I now have a permit to import small lots of seed -- I'm happy to help if anyone needs to receive seed from outside the US. From plantnutga@gmail.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 04:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Erin Grace Subject: appreciating this list Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 07:00:36 -0400 Believe it or not, one of the culprits digging into my pots is a toad who burrows underground during the day to stay cool in the summer. I usually try to give him his own pot, sometimes that works. Also the wrens sometimes like to dig for possible insects, they watch me pot things and sometimes come in afterwards to investigate. And of course squirrels. Erin Grace, Thomasville, GA, USA USDA zone 8b, AHS heat zone 9 thankful from the rain from Debby From Tony@plantdelights.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 05:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tony Avent Subject: Pseudodracontium Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 07:40:30 -0400 Dylan: Glad you brought up the sauromatum issue. Well over a decade ago, the sauromatum switch to typhonium was discussed ad nauseum on Aroid-l, with all the scientific justification presented. A small handful of us weren't convinced and never changed our records. Here we are now in 2012 with two new mea culpa papers published reinstating the genus sauromatum. To me, pseudodracontium is in the same boat. I'll go out on a limb and predict that this merger sinks like the sauromatum one. Just because a bandwagon goes by with lots of people on it doesn't mean everyone should automatically jump on...it may be heading to the dump. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Hannon Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 12:06 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Pseudodracontium Tim, Agreed. There is also the possibility (seems doubtful in this case) that the change may go over like a lead balloon in the scientific community. It is after all a proposal, a somewhat subjective one, that aims to arrange things better than before. It doesn't always "take". Recently there has been talk that Sauromatum would be subsumed under Typhonium but apparently this was reconsidered. Same with Albuca vs. Ornithogalum, though this was a little more complicated with internal rearrangements. A heartbreaker was Kleinia saginata, a name published at last for a plant hortists had called Senecio fulleri for many years. Dylan Hannon On 26 June 2012 19:19, Tim Chapman wrote: > >From previous experience I can say that trying to implement name > >changes > before they are official is a waste of time. I'm not doubting that > this change will happen, but it was suggested well over a decade ago. > To expect nurseries to change names now is somewhat ridiculous (no offense). > Technically to list something as A harmandii is invalid until an > official publication is made. > > I can give several examples of why jumping the gun on name changes is a > bad idea. It can indeed lead to MUCH more confusion. > > Tim Chapman > > From dkramb@badbear.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 05:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Canna flaccida, surprise hardiness Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 07:56:24 -0400 Here are the pictures... http://www.badbear.com/dkramb/P6260009.JPG http://www.badbear.com/dkramb/P6260010.JPG http://www.badbear.com/dkramb/P6260013.JPG Dennis in Cincinnati From dkramb@badbear.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 07:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Pseudodracontium Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:31:29 -0400 My brain hurts from reading that.... I'm still calling my plants Mimulus. :-P Maybe this information will sink in later. P.S. Thanks for posting that info, Max. It was intriguing! On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 11:19 PM, Max Withers wrote: > I just learned that Mimulus is no more. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/mark_egger_castilleja/collections/72157623765518454/ From silkie@frontiernet.net Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <03e701cd5478$ca0b4f80$5e21ee80$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: appreciating this list Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 08:23:21 -0700 Hi Mary, I have had a problem with cats rearranging things in pots, not using the pots, just curious I guess. I also have a very small breed of chickens that live outside 24/7 and I have found that they are offended by name tags in pots. They (generally the hens) will go along and pull out every tag. When I replace them, they do it again. I now have some nameless pots. Colleen NE Calif. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Mary Gutierrez Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:38 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] appreciating this list I was struck by the beauty and diversity of the photos showing plants and scenery that were posted by list members today. This mailing list allows me to appreciate natural beauty that I will likely never see in person. And I have a bulb question -- I apologize if this question has been asked and answered in this forum before, and I missed it. Anyway, I grow my South African bulbs in pots in an unheated greenhouse, and after the winter bloomers go dormant and the weather warms up, I move them onto racks outside where they will spend the summer. Some creature is rearranging my bulbs. We have squirrels in the neighborhood, but I don't usually have them in my garden because of my dog. Would other rodents do this? (ick) Raccoons? Something digs in the pots in the early summer (now), and in the winter I find lachenalia coming up in the sparaxis. I don't contribute to the PBS list conversations often, but I always appreciate what I see and read. Thanks, Mary G. Seattle PS. Thanks to Nathan Lange, I was able to import some Crinum macowanii seed last winter. I now have a permit to import small lots of seed -- I'm happy to help if anyone needs to receive seed from outside the US. From bulborum@gmail.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: appreciating this list Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 17:52:14 +0200 Just write the name on the pot or what i do I put a label (PVC) on the bottom from the pot with a pencil H2 and the number corresponding with my computer database of-course with an on-line free backup if you want an invitation for an free backup account just PM me and NO there are no advertisements or spam in it if you need more as 5GB space you have to pay for it Roland 2012/6/27 Colleen :  I now have some nameless pots. > > Colleen NE Calif. -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Inquiry about seed sources Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 08:57:36 -0700 I was just looking at the website www.rareplants.de and wondering if any members of this list have ordered many seeds from it. Their selection of geophytes is not really extensive, but there are a few species I'd like to acquire. I was concerned, however, to see that some species appear to be illustrated with photos of different species (e.g., Rhodophiala phycelloides appears to be illustrated by R. pratensis or something similar), and a few names and synonyms (e.g.in Iris) are misspelled or confused. This is a good time to discuss seed sources, as in a couple of months it will be time to start planting the seeds of winter-growing geophytes. Since the discontinuation of the Archibalds' list and Ron Ratko's Northwest Native Seeds, I'm looking for new lists. What are some of your favorites? Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From annamwal@interia.pl Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <06F54E2C1D3F4B999704975E2D4928B2@MarekKomputer> From: "A. M. Walnik" Subject: What's in Bloom: June 26 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 18:00:18 +0200 Hi, It's a great experience to watch my Hymenocallis sp. (http://mwalnik.wodip.opole.pl/botanika/poza_spisem/hymeno_12.html), while it opens one flower every 1 - 2 days. At 5 p.m. there is an unopened flower bud. In some minutes it opens one tepal, then another one, then spreads the staminal cup, like an umbrella... All takes some minutes. Marek W., Poland -----Oryginalna wiadomość----- From: J.E. Shields Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 12:34 AM Subject: [pbs] What's in Bloom: June 26 We have Hymenocallis in bloom ... _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From santoury@aol.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF2295A6154FE6-1924-1FC54@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Inquiry about seed sources Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 12:04:21 -0400 (EDT) I have, and about 3/4 the seeds were ok, the rest were dried up, or / and not mature enough to grow. I can understand if a few, out of a pack, were bad - but this wasn't the case. Certain species were ok, other species were not. I had to pull teeth to get resolution. I think they are very busy and allow that to affect customer relations. ______________________________________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you want to receive my plant newsletters via email? santoury@aol.com The Silent Seed - Rare and Unusual Plants ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Jane McGary To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Wed, Jun 27, 2012 11:57 am Subject: [pbs] Inquiry about seed sources I was just looking at the website www.rareplants.de and wondering if any members of this list have ordered many seeds from it. Their selection of geophytes is not really extensive, but there are a few species I'd like to acquire. I was concerned, however, to see that some species appear to be illustrated with photos of different species (e.g., Rhodophiala phycelloides appears to be illustrated by R. pratensis or something similar), and a few names and synonyms (e.g.in Iris) are misspelled or confused. This is a good time to discuss seed sources, as in a couple of months it will be time to start planting the seeds of winter-growing geophytes. Since the discontinuation of the Archibalds' list and Ron Ratko's Northwest Native Seeds, I'm looking for new lists. What are some of your favorites? Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From clayton3120@cablespeed.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: clayton3120 clayton3120 Subject: Inquiry about seed sources Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:14:24 -0700 Jane, Yes, I have ordered from rareplants.de and was very pleased with the service. The seed was quite viable, and order response was relatively quick for overseas ordering and shipping. I recommend this company. Rick K On 6/27/12, Jane McGary wrote: > I was just looking at the website www.rareplants.de and wondering if > any members of this list have ordered many seeds from it. Their > selection of geophytes is not really extensive, but there are a few > species I'd like to acquire. I was concerned, however, to see that > some species appear to be illustrated with photos of different > species (e.g., Rhodophiala phycelloides appears to be illustrated by > R. pratensis or something similar), and a few names and synonyms > (e.g.in Iris) are misspelled or confused. > > This is a good time to discuss seed sources, as in a couple of months > it will be time to start planting the seeds of winter-growing > geophytes. Since the discontinuation of the Archibalds' list and Ron > Ratko's Northwest Native Seeds, I'm looking for new lists. What are > some of your favorites? > > Jane McGary > Portland, Oregon, USA > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From mirrog@yahoo.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: Dichelostemma volubile Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:19:45 -0700 This is a twining Brodiaea. I first discovered it growing in brush in the countryside near Napa. I tried growing it in a large pot in the greenhouse, and it would make foliage, but no flowers. I planted the bulbs out in a raised bed of sandy loam in full sun last Fall, and they are blooming on four-foot twining stems. My garden is in SW Washington state. They don't seem bothered by the wet, cool weather. http://s232.photobucket.com/albums/ee69/motie42/?action=view¤t=IMG_5663.jpg From mirrog@yahoo.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: Dichelostemma ida-maia Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:24:20 -0700 Blooming now in SW Washington state. http://s232.photobucket.com/albums/ee69/motie42/?action=view¤t=IMG_5666small.jpg From mirrog@yahoo.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <876692DC4A7243D4BDA24F09677D233F@emirrojr> From: "Gene Mirro" Subject: Lilium humboldtii ssp ocellatum Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:27:18 -0700 I grew L. ocellatum for many years in my garden in Portland. Full sun, raised bed of sandy loam soil, mulch to keep the soil cool, irrigate once every two weeks in summer, occasional fertilizer. 50+ blooms per stem. In the photo, the white labels indicated cross-pollination with other western lilies. http://s232.photobucket.com/albums/ee69/motie42/?action=view¤t=humboldtismall.jpg From xerics@cox.net Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <002a01cd5482$d97de2c0$8c79a840$@net> From: "Richard" Subject: Inquiry about seed sources Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:35:23 -0700 I ordered from them last year. Euphorbias, a few bulb species such as Gladiolus watermeyeri and had decent germination. They claimed 40% on the Glads and I got about 50%. Did not fare well with Kniphofia. I ordered 2 dwarf species and had a single seed germinate. Richard Wagner Vista ca "I was just looking at the website www.rareplants.de and wondering if any members of this list have ordered many seeds from it. Their selection of geophytes is not really extensive, but there are a few " From bulborum@gmail.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Inquiry about seed sources Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 18:37:16 +0200 I have the same expirence many do well but about 20% of the seeds hardly germinate one species was really terrible 300 seeds two seeds germinated Looks as old seeds Roland 2012/6/27 The Silent Seed : > I have, and about 3/4 the seeds were ok, the rest were dried up, or / and not mature enough to grow. I can understand if a few, out of a pack, were bad - but this wasn't the case. Certain species were ok, other species were not. -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From bulborum@gmail.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Inquiry about seed sources Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 18:49:51 +0200 chileflora.com and http://beingplants.com/zen/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=16&zenid=d2f615ac4e6110dad36737701bcc5ae4 With both I have good experiance Roland -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From dkramb@badbear.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: What's in Bloom: June 26 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 12:55:15 -0400 I'm depressed. Mine apparently isn't going to bloom this year. :-( Dennis in Cincinnati (growing his semi-hydroponically) From ds429@comcast.net Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <000001cd5485$e4995510$adcbff30$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 315 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 12:56:42 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 315" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! Lee Poulsen has donated these seeds. PLEASE NOTE: -->>> MOST OF THE AMARYLLIDS ARE WELL ALONG IN GERMINATION AND WILL PROBABLY NOT TRAVEL WELL FOR LONG. MEMBERS WHO LIVE FAR AWAY SHOULD BE CAUTIOUS ABOUT ORDERING SINCE THE SEEDS MIGHT ARRIVE IN BAD SHAPE IF THEY HAVE TO BE IN TRANSIT FOR MORE THAN A FEW DAYS.<<-- AMARYLLIDS: (LIMITED SUPPLIES) 1. Ammocharis tinneana 2. Brunsvigia littoralis 3. Gethyllis villosa 4. Haemanthus nortieri 5. Nerine laticoma 6. Strumaria discifera, ex Nieuwoudtville OTHERS: 7. Baeometra uniflora 8. Lapeirousia enigmata 9. Nothoscordum montevidense, few 10. Tropaeolum azureum (few) Thank you, Lee !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX . From michaelcmace@gmail.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <004601cd5489$5939def0$0bad9cd0$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Appreciating this list Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:21:53 -0700 Mary wrote: >> We have squirrels in the neighborhood, but I don't usually have them in my garden because of my dog. Would other rodents do this? (ick) Raccoons? Something digs in the pots in the early summer (now), and in the winter I find lachenalia coming up in the sparaxis. If it were in my garden, the culprits would be either rodents or birds, probably rodents. But they don't usually rearrange bulbs; they eat them. A pot visited by rodents is usually a heartbreaking mix of churned soil and empty bulb husks. I put a piece of chicken wire under the surface of the soil in my pots to prevent this. In the past I used galvanized chicken wire, but a friend suggested that I try the plastic stuff. It's much easier to cut, and so far I've had good success with it. Good luck! Mike San Jose, CA From michaelcmace@gmail.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <004701cd5489$c6c42b10$544c8130$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Inquiry about seed sources Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:24:57 -0700 Jane wrote: >> I was just looking at the website www.rareplants.de and wondering if any members of this list have ordered many seeds from it I have used them a couple of times. Prompt service but expensive for the number of seeds you get. I had mixed success with the germination -- some species grew and some didn't. I get the impression that part of their business is acting as a reseller for other seed companies. Nothing wrong with that, but it means you may be able to find the same things elsewhere for less... Mike San Jose, CA From d.avensis@virgin.net Wed, 27 Jun 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <51AD3F9FFDD5415CBD1F53B9A17A2E33@Auricula> From: "David Nicholson" Subject: Inquiry about seed sources Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 19:02:31 +0100 Though none are geophyte specialists a few here that might be of interest:- David Nicholson in Devon, UK, Zone 9b and if so the wettest imaginable! Joseph Jurusek http://www.zahradnictvi-svjan.cz/data/semena2011.html Vladislav Piatek http://www.alpine-seeds.com/seeds.html Milan Sembol http://www.cypripediums.net/english.htm/ Seedhunt http://www.seedhunt.com/ Chiltern Seeds http://www.chilternseeds.co.uk/ Barnhaven Primroses http://www.barnhavenprimroses.com/barnhaven.php From xerantheum@gmail.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: What's in bloom: Hypseocharis pimpinellifolia Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 11:12:18 -0700 Hi everyone, Some of you may know that I am a big fan of the Oxalidaceae, and Hipseocharis is a tuberous geophyte within that family. We bought some seeds from the Archibalds in 2008 and the plant started blooming this week. The seeds came from Argentina. I am in love with this plant! http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/7455775606 http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/7455775510 http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/7455775334 I had three seedlings, one died quickly, two made decent sized tubers, but one died last year before blooming. So finally, I only have one clone and slim possibility of seeds. Is anyone out there growing this species? If you are, please let me know and perhaps we can trade some pollen and the resulting seeds. I would really love to get this species grown more broadly. Happy growing, Nhu Berkeley, CA From jmsjon664@aol.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF22A886D67D81-38C-1541F@webmail-d157.sysops.aol.com> From: "James L. Jones" Subject: appreciating this list Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 14:19:29 -0400 (EDT) At some point, several years ago, during my semi-annual move of dormant geophytes outside from my solar greenhouse, I asked myself, "Why am I doing this?" These plants want dry heat! Since then, to the relief of all of us they stay inside and prosper. There are a couple of distinctive factors at play here that keep the temperature from soaring: an overhead pane is removed (it's plastic) and a large tub of water provides thermal moderation. In any case, it has worked just fine. Jim Jones Lexington, MA -----Original Message----- From: Mary Gutierrez To: pbs Sent: Wed, Jun 27, 2012 1:38 am Subject: [pbs] appreciating this list I was struck by the beauty and diversity of the photos showing plants and scenery that were posted by list members today. This mailing list allows me to appreciate natural beauty that I will likely never see in person. And I have a bulb question -- I apologize if this question has been asked and answered in this forum before, and I missed it. Anyway, I grow my South African bulbs in pots in an unheated greenhouse, and after the winter bloomers go dormant and the weather warms up, I move them onto racks outside where they will spend the summer. Some creature is rearranging my bulbs. We have squirrels in the neighborhood, but I don't usually have them in my garden because of my dog. Would other rodents do this? (ick) Raccoons? Something digs in the pots in the early summer (now), and in the winter I find lachenalia coming up in the sparaxis. I don't contribute to the PBS list conversations often, but I always appreciate what I see and read. Thanks, Mary G. Seattle PS. Thanks to Nathan Lange, I was able to import some Crinum macowanii seed last winter. I now have a permit to import small lots of seed -- I'm happy to help if anyone needs to receive seed from outside the US. From hornig@oswego.edu Wed, 27 Jun 2012 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Ellen Hornig Subject: Albuca humlis Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 14:38:49 -0400 Is anyone out there growing Albuca humilis in the north in an unprotected garden? I was surprised to find that several pots that I took with me when I moved from NY to MA overwintered outside above the ground (covered with oak leaves). The pots did freeze solid - this I know - and yet the bulbs are fine, and have sent up foliage and, in some cases, flowers. These are from seed collected at Naude's Nek (high altitude), where I'm sure they also freeze, but of course there's more to hardiness than just cold tolerance. These seem like really sturdy little guys - and they're good-looking, too. Anyone? Ellen -- Ellen Hornig 212 Grafton St Shrewsbury MA 01545 508-925-5147 From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Wed, 27 Jun 2012 13:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: What's in bloom: Hypseocharis pimpinellifolia Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 12:46:07 -0700 Ooh, I am so jealous. I also bought a packet of those seeds. I only got two seedlings and the following year, neither one came back! So I can't help you. I wonder if any of our Argentine members have it. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a Latitude 34°N, Altitude 1150 ft/350 m On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:12 AM, Nhu Nguyen wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Some of you may know that I am a big fan of the Oxalidaceae, and > Hipseocharis is a tuberous geophyte within that family. We bought some > seeds from the Archibalds in 2008 and the plant started blooming this week. > The seeds came from Argentina. > > I am in love with this plant! > http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/7455775606 > http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/7455775510 > http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/7455775334 > > I had three seedlings, one died quickly, two made decent sized tubers, but > one died last year before blooming. So finally, I only have one clone and > slim possibility of seeds. Is anyone out there growing this species? If you > are, please let me know and perhaps we can trade some pollen and the > resulting seeds. I would really love to get this species grown more broadly. > > Happy growing, > Nhu > Berkeley, CA > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pelarg@aol.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 13:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF22B5367521F3-237C-2202B@Webmail-d107.sysops.aol.com> From: pelarg@aol.com Subject: Albuca humlis Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 15:50:18 -0400 (EDT) Hi Ellen, My A. humilis are still in pots, but I have had A. shawii outside for many years without protection, they are blooming right now. The bulbs are surprisingly close to the surface, they do not go deep, so they have surely been frozen many times before. Last year I also set out some Ledebouria cooperi, they came thru last winter (admittedly a very mild one) beautifully. Ernie Tuckahoe NY Z6/7 -----Original Message----- From: Ellen Hornig To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Wed, Jun 27, 2012 2:39 pm Subject: [pbs] Albuca humlis Is anyone out there growing Albuca humilis in the north in an unprotected garden? I was surprised to find that several pots that I took with me when I moved from NY to MA overwintered outside above the ground (covered with oak leaves). The pots did freeze solid - this I know - and yet the bulbs are fine, and have sent up foliage and, in some cases, flowers. These are from seed collected at Naude's Nek (high altitude), where I'm sure they also freeze, but of course there's more to hardiness than just cold tolerance. These seem like really sturdy little guys - and they're good-looking, too. Anyone? Ellen -- Ellen Hornig 212 Grafton St Shrewsbury MA 01545 508-925-5147 From hornig@oswego.edu Wed, 27 Jun 2012 13:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Ellen Hornig Subject: Albuca humlis Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 16:03:10 -0400 Also - forgot to mention that Albuca fastigiata (Sentinel Peak coll.) overwintered fine in my Oswego garden last year (when winter was a joke, but there was also hardly any snow cover). I dug it up on my last visit and brought it here for re-installation. It's looking good. Ernie, I wish I had known it was worth trying A. shawii....I just brought three miserable bulbs with me, and didn't get them potted until the other day. It'll take them a year just to recuperate (when I potted them, they had tiny leaves and withered vestiges of buds already showing). Ellen > -- > Ellen Hornig > 212 Grafton St > Shrewsbury MA 01545 > 508-925-5147 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Ellen Hornig 212 Grafton St Shrewsbury MA 01545 508-925-5147 From ds429@comcast.net Wed, 27 Jun 2012 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1296718053.1571463.1340830193472.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: PBS BX 315 CLOSED Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 20:49:53 +0000 (UTC) Sorry, the limited supplies have run out. Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From petersirises@gmail.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Albuca humlis Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 22:04:12 +0100 Albuca shawii is cold hardy for me to about minus 12 or 15 degrees centigrade, kept dryish. Ledebouria cooperi is also hardy to this temperature but I lost both at around minus 18 C two winters ago. (since replaced) Peter (UK) On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 8:50 PM, wrote: ..but I have had A. shawii outside for many years without protection,... they have surely been frozen many times before. Last year I also set out some Ledebouria cooperi, they came thru last winter (admittedly a very mild one) beautifully. > > Ernie > Tuckahoe NY Z6/7 > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ellen Hornig > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: Wed, Jun 27, 2012 2:39 pm > Subject: [pbs] Albuca humlis > > > Is anyone out there growing Albuca humilis in the north in an unprotected > garden? I was surprised to find that several pots that I took with me when > I moved from NY to MA overwintered outside above the ground (covered with > oak leaves). The pots did freeze solid - this I know - and yet the bulbs > are fine, and have sent up foliage and, in some cases, flowers. These are > from seed collected at Naude's Nek (high altitude), where I'm sure they > also freeze, but of course there's more to hardiness than just cold > tolerance. These seem like really sturdy little guys - and they're > good-looking, too. Anyone? > > Ellen > > -- > Ellen Hornig > 212 Grafton St > Shrewsbury MA 01545 > 508-925-5147 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From petersirises@gmail.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 15:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Dry heat, Summer 'dormancy'. Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 22:22:26 +0100 I cover dormant pots of bulbs, in the greenhouse, with a white cotton sheet during hot summer weather. Vents stay open and there is usually a lot of glass missing from the sides of my bulb houses. Frost is the only reason for full glazing and only in winter for tender plants. Peter (UK) On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 7:19 PM, James L. Jones wrote: > At some point, several years ago, during my semi-annual move of dormant > geophytes outside from my solar greenhouse, I asked myself, "Why am I doing > this?" These plants want dry heat! Since then, to the relief of all of us > they stay inside and prosper. > There are a couple of distinctive factors at play here that keep the > temperature from soaring: an overhead pane is removed (it's plastic) and a > large tub of water provides thermal moderation. In any case, it has worked > just fine. > From sujithart@gmail.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 15:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Sujit Hart Subject: Dry heat, Summer 'dormancy'. Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 16:35:38 -0500 The temperature was 109 F in Houston, Texas yesterday. Is there anything one should do for young seedlings in the extreme heat of Texas. Sujit, Houston, Texas On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Peter Taggart wrote: > I cover dormant pots of bulbs, in the greenhouse, with a white cotton sheet > during hot summer weather. Vents stay open and there is usually a lot of > glass missing from the sides of my bulb houses. Frost is the only reason > for full glazing and only in winter for tender plants. > Peter (UK) > > From petersirises@gmail.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 15:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Dry heat, Summer 'dormancy'. Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 22:49:24 +0100 Shade them and spray with a LITTLE water when the sun has set, also the floor, to cool the atmosphere and prevent dessication. Heat plus water usually means rotting for winter growing bulbs, don't apply water in hot sun! Peter (UK) On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 10:35 PM, Sujit Hart wrote: > The temperature was 109 F in Houston, Texas yesterday. Is there anything > one should do for young seedlings in the extreme heat of Texas. > From d.mueller-doblies@gmx.de Wed, 27 Jun 2012 17:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4FEB97B7.3010203@gmx.de> From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dietrich_M=FCller-Doblies?= Subject: Albuca humlis & A. tenuifolia, syn. A. shawii frost resistence Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 01:31:03 +0200 Hello Peter, thank you very much for this detailed information on frost hardiness of Albuca shawii and Ledebouria cooperi. Do you have similar observations in other species? By the way Baker was very unfortunate in his taxonomic instinct concerning this Albuca species: he described it under six species names which he placed in all his three subgenera of Albuca. The oldest and thus correct name is Albuca tenuifolia, one year older than A. shawii, see the following linkfile: [url=http://www.linkfile.de/download-5fc31084408a07f4170a4109991b558b.php]Download U.M-D.2012-Albuca4The enigma of Albuca tenuifolia BAKER resolved.pdf[/url] Dietrich Am 27.06.2012 23:04, schrieb Peter Taggart: > Albuca shawii is cold hardy for me to about minus 12 or 15 degrees > centigrade, kept dryish. Ledebouria cooperi is also hardy to this > temperature but I lost both at around minus 18 C two winters ago. (since > replaced) > Peter (UK) > > On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 8:50 PM, wrote: > ..but I have had A. shawii outside for many years without protection,... > they have surely been frozen many times before. Last year I also set out > some Ledebouria cooperi, they came thru last winter (admittedly a very mild > one) beautifully. > >> Ernie >> Tuckahoe NY Z6/7 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ellen Hornig >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Sent: Wed, Jun 27, 2012 2:39 pm >> Subject: [pbs] Albuca humlis >> >> >> Is anyone out there growing Albuca humilis in the north in an unprotected >> garden? I was surprised to find that several pots that I took with me when >> I moved from NY to MA overwintered outside above the ground (covered with >> oak leaves). The pots did freeze solid - this I know - and yet the bulbs >> are fine, and have sent up foliage and, in some cases, flowers. These are >> from seed collected at Naude's Nek (high altitude), where I'm sure they >> also freeze, but of course there's more to hardiness than just cold >> tolerance. These seem like really sturdy little guys - and they're >> good-looking, too. Anyone? >> >> Ellen >> >> -- >> Ellen Hornig >> 212 Grafton St >> Shrewsbury MA 01545 >> 508-925-5147 >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From klazina1@gmail.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FEBAC47.8010005@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: Muscari Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 12:58:47 +1200 Is this one just a hybrid? https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/28thJune2012?authkey=Gv1sRgCIXM-8Ki1NCtGw#5758883804334592082 -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand zone 10a From munrosj27@yahoo.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 19:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1340849668.6827.YahooMailNeo@web162406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: stephen munro Subject: Lily photos from the "State of Jefferson" Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 19:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Vijay,   Those are some great photos in the Lily Chase! How lucky you were to have the friends to help time it just right.  I believe there is nothing quite like seeing a species in its native haunts... I intend to look over those picture often.   The photos and trek from India are truly hardcore.  Nicely done!   Stephen ________________________________ From: VIJAY CHANDHOK To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Lily photos from the "State of Jefferson" Few years ago we did the Lily Chase trip looking for species Lilies Washington, Oregon and northern California, we were on the road for a week with some friends who knew the locations. It was a great trip, to see photos of the Lilies and the surrounding area check out my site http://vijayc.smugmug.com/Flowers/Lily-Chase/5469812_QCcQJb#!i=334407418&k=CrBuf Vijay Another trek I took was to Gangotri National Forest  India near the Gomukh glacier the source of Ganges river looking for the species Lily L. polyphylium, we were lucky to be there in early July to see them in bloom at elevation of about 11,000 ft to 12,000 ft. The photos from this are on page 3 of http://vijayc.smugmug.com/Travel/Gangotri-Gomukh-July-2009-1/9019881_t7JCc9#!i=600038063&k=BDcaK Vijay On Jun 26, 2012, at 04:55 PM, "Randall P. Linke" wrote: > What lovely pictures! I keep hoping to get into the California Cascades > again. It has been so long since I have been up into the mountains, either > the Cascades or the Sierras. Your photos inspire me to do all I can to > make this happen. > > Randy, > Monterey Bay Region, California > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 3:19 PM, stephen munro wrote: > > > I was lucky to time my trip down to the Siskiyou Mountains of Oregon and > > California to coincide with the blooming of a couple rare Lily species and > > one Calochortus species.. They are Lilium bolanderi, Lilium vollmeri > > (pardalinum subsp. vollmeri if you want) and Calochortus > > howelli. Unfortunately I could not find Lilium wigginsi and I was a couple > > weeks early to catch L. washingtonianum and kellogii as I found one lily > > that appeared to be one or the other in bud. > > > > The clump of Vollmer's lily I photographed was amazing. Dozens and dozens > > of them with numerous flower heads growing up to or above 90 cm. I hope > > they will stay safe and undug. > > > > The weather was poor down there with rain and lows in the thirties and > > highs just into the fifties. To my disappointment the weather there as of > > this afternoon and into the weekend will be in the 80s and clear. Thats > > the breaks! > > > > Enjoy, > > > > Stephen Munro > > Seattle > > > > The link is here. www.flickr.com/stephenmunro > > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From munrosj27@yahoo.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 20:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1340851054.93821.YahooMailNeo@web162402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: stephen munro Subject: Lily photos from the "State of Jefferson" Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 19:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Whoa! Didn't mean to start a political hullaballo! Wasn't intended.   When I am down there sometimes I am in Oregon and sometimes I am in California.  Regardless I don't think I am in either state but somewhere else.  The State of Shasta the State of Jefferson the Siskiyous or Klamath Country it is certainly singular.  The unique geologic, plant life, watercourses, and animals all contribute to this "state of mind."   Best,   Stephen ________________________________ From: Randall P. Linke To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Lily photos from the "State of Jefferson" Though off topic, I think  your questions re the questionable viability of the "State of Jeffeson" to be quite valid.  Having lived in Mendocino, I can't imagine the Mat-Eel community or Ashland going along with the core values the proponents of this movement. Randy On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Jane McGary wrote: > Lovely photos by Stephen Munro! I'm glad to know his camera started > working again, and that he didn't have to depend for a photo of C. > howellii on the one he took here with his phone. I enjoyed talking > with Stephen; he says he is the youngest member of the Northwestern > chapter of NARGS, and I hope he can recruit some contemporaries into > both it and the PBS. > > The "State of Jefferson" in his subject line refers to a sporadic > movement to combine southern Oregon and northern California into a > separate state. Rural, resource-exploiting, and libertarian interests > drove it, but with gentrified Ashland and Arcata in the mix, how > would that work? > > Jane McGary > Portland, Oregon, USA > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- * * A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right. - Thomas Paine  --- * * From bulborum@gmail.com Wed, 27 Jun 2012 23:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Muscari Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 08:07:55 +0200 Looks a little as Muscari Baby's Breath Roland 2012/6/28 Ina Crossley : > Is this one just a hybrid? > > https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/28thJune2012?authkey=Gv1sRgCIXM-8Ki1NCtGw#5758883804334592082 > > -- > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand zone 10a > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From klazina@orcon.net.nz Thu, 28 Jun 2012 00:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <4FEBF958.5020505@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Muscari Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 18:27:36 +1200 Thank you Roland. I'd looked at the Wiki but couldn't find it. So it IS a hybrid, bred in Holland I think. I must say mine is not very happy looking, I wonder if it needs more cold. Ina On 28/06/2012 6:07 p.m., Bulborum Botanicum wrote: > Looks a little as Muscari Baby's Breath > > Roland > > > > 2012/6/28 Ina Crossley: >> >Is this one just a hybrid? >> > >> >https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/28thJune2012?authkey=Gv1sRgCIXM-8Ki1NCtGw#5758883804334592082 >> > >> >-- >> >Ina Crossley >> >Auckland New Zealand zone 10a -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From silkie@frontiernet.net Thu, 28 Jun 2012 01:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <049c01cd54fe$a9e02d80$fda08880$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Lily photos from the "State of Jefferson" Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 00:21:40 -0700 One more little bit on the State of Jefferson. Don't be too quick to write it off as a libertarian effort. Lots of Dems and Repubs. around here support the idea :) The idea is to get Sacramento and Portland out of the mix and let the locals make decisions for ourselves. As for Ashland, it would fit just fine. As for the unique geologic areas, I am from Trinity County, Calif. and there is a "Johnny Jump Up", sorry I don't remember the scientific name, that I found when I was doing a plant collection for Tax. Bot. that is said to be located only there and in Africa. I never have been able to wrap my head around that little fact. Colleen who spent many years in S. Or. and now is back in N. Calif. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of stephen munro Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 7:38 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Lily photos from the "State of Jefferson" Whoa! Didn't mean to start a political hullaballo! Wasn't intended.   When I am down there sometimes I am in Oregon and sometimes I am in California.  Regardless I don't think I am in either state but somewhere else.  The State of Shasta the State of Jefferson the Siskiyous or Klamath Country it is certainly singular.  The unique geologic, plant life, watercourses, and animals all contribute to this "state of mind."   Best,   Stephen ________________________________ From: Randall P. Linke To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Lily photos from the "State of Jefferson" Though off topic, I think  your questions re the questionable viability of the "State of Jeffeson" to be quite valid.  Having lived in Mendocino, I can't imagine the Mat-Eel community or Ashland going along with the core values the proponents of this movement. Randy On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Jane McGary wrote: > Lovely photos by Stephen Munro! I'm glad to know his camera started > working again, and that he didn't have to depend for a photo of C. > howellii on the one he took here with his phone. I enjoyed talking > with Stephen; he says he is the youngest member of the Northwestern > chapter of NARGS, and I hope he can recruit some contemporaries into > both it and the PBS. > > The "State of Jefferson" in his subject line refers to a sporadic > movement to combine southern Oregon and northern California into a > separate state. Rural, resource-exploiting, and libertarian interests > drove it, but with gentrified Ashland and Arcata in the mix, how would > that work? > > Jane McGary > Portland, Oregon, USA > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- * * A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right. - Thomas Paine  --- * * From bulborum@gmail.com Thu, 28 Jun 2012 02:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Muscari Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 10:34:47 +0200 Here some more info about Muscari armeniacum Baby's Breath Originally introduced from Cyprus, by Jenny Robinson (holder of the National Collection of Muscari), who in turn passed it to Washfield Nursery in Kent. This stock is traceable to Washfield. The plant both sееds freely and does not come true from seed 2012/6/28 Ina : > Thank you Roland.  I'd looked at the Wiki but couldn't find it.  So it > IS a hybrid, bred in Holland I think. -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From klazina@orcon.net.nz Thu, 28 Jun 2012 02:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <4FEC1ADC.2030809@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Muscari Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 20:50:36 +1200 Right. So My Baby's Breath is really a great-great-grandchild to the nth degree of the real Baby's Breath. On 28/06/2012 8:34 p.m., Bulborum Botanicum wrote: > Here some more info about Muscari armeniacum Baby's Breath > > Originally introduced from Cyprus, by Jenny Robinson (holder of the > National Collection of Muscari), who in turn passed it to Washfield > Nursery in Kent. This stock is traceable to Washfield. The plant both > sееds freely and does not come true from seed > > 2012/6/28 Ina : >> Thank you Roland. I'd looked at the Wiki but couldn't find it. So it >> IS a hybrid, bred in Holland I think. -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From e@griffingriffin.co.uk Thu, 28 Jun 2012 02:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Elaine Subject: Pelargoniums Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 10:08:58 +0100 I live in the south of England, I grow amongst other things pelargoniums, I have had one in particular for several years pelargonium 'ardens' but have not got it to flower. I grow them in a poly tunnel, which in the summer reaches 30 degrees (more later in the summer). In the winter I bring them into the house. Any help with growing much appreciated. I am keen to grow the species pelargoniums in particular. From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Thu, 28 Jun 2012 04:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1340881604.72962.YahooMailClassic@web160302.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: Lily photos from the "State of Jefferson" Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 04:06:44 -0700 (PDT) "Rural, resource-exploiting, and libertarian interests drove it" I would also add that the resource exploiting part makes it sound worse than it should. The local people want to be the beneficiaries of the resources, not the state and federal governments. State and National forest land was claimed, not for preservation, but for logging interests so the government could lease that land to loggers. You only need to spend a day or so to see all the logging trucks coming out of the national forests.  Aaron Floden  E. Tennessee From pelarg@aol.com Thu, 28 Jun 2012 05:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF233D35E47786-1E8-284AA@webmail-m141.sysops.aol.com> From: pelarg@aol.com Subject: Pelargoniums Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 08:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Pelargonium x Ardens is a winter growing plant, it should get lots of sun in winter and cool temperatures. Cool night temps along with lengthening days will help the flower buds form, just as with regal pelargoniums (P x domesticum). It blooms in spring. In summer it goes dormant, should dry off at some point when the leaves yellow, then restart by watering in September or October. Propagate by dividing the tuberous roots just before growth resumes in fall, or if you are really good with plants, try stem cuttings (there isnt much stem on this one) in fall. Ernie Tuckahoe NY Z6/7 From marygastil@yahoo.com Thu, 28 Jun 2012 09:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <1340898672.61401.YahooMailNeo@web161505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Gastil Subject: summer bulb storage Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 08:51:12 -0700 (PDT) How are winter-growing bulbs best stored in summer? All top growth is dry now and Im about to begin digging up or un-potting corms and bulbs. Some I am digging up just to photograph them.  Others need to be spread out from too-thick clumps. Is it ideal to re-plant or re-pot as soon as possible and leave in dry soil until autumn? Or is it better to store them in a cardboard box filled with wood shavings, vermiculite, or some other packing material, or without packing material? I have an over-abundant supply of wood shavings. (My husband makes furniture.) I read in 'Buried Treasure' how bulbs are stored in a shed but I wonder if that was only to keep them dry or away from critters. There is little chance of any rain here (just dew) and I keep critters out with wire mesh. Summer temperatures here are mild, rarely above 85 F. Not too humid nor too dry. If left in the ground, is a mulch recommended? Is it better to leave the dry leaves and stalks on the surface for insulation or better to clear those away? I would like to hear others' experience with summer storage. - Gastil From leo@possi.org Thu, 28 Jun 2012 10:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: summer bulb storage Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 09:37:47 -0700 (PDT) Mary wrote > How are winter-growing bulbs best stored in summer?.... > I have an over-abundant supply of wood shavings.... > There is little chance of any rain here (just dew).... > ...rarely above 85 F. Not too humid nor too dry.... > If left in the ground, is a mulch recommended? > Is it better to leave the dry leaves and stalks on the > surface for insulation or better to clear those away? I think the ideal way to store winter-growing bulbs in containers is to store them undisturbed, in their soil in their containers, where they experience day to night variation in temperature and low average humidity. But, reality occasionally intervenes. In my experience, bulbs surrounded by soil or sand will dry out less than bulbs in wood chips. I would not deliberately unpot my collection to store over summer in wood chips under any circumstances. Bulbs in pots I or the dogs break during springtime gathering in get stored in new containers in soil but not watered until the next season. In your climate you could store containers in a well-ventilated outdoor shed. Keep summer rain off most winter-growing bulbs. You may learn the hard way which ones won't tolerate it and which ones will. Rodent protection will be mandatory. Rodents are ingenious and fit through tiny openings. First-year seedlings have a rough time with the first summer. You might consider not repotting seedlings for 3-4 years and storing them dry in the house, where it's cooler, the first summer. Divide and repot winter-growing bulbs while dormant, as late in the summer as possible so they are disturbed for as little time as possible before the next growing season. Of course, you have to repot when you have time. Repot large, tough bulbs early on and seedlings and small bulbs later in the summer if you are time constrained. If a container breaks during the summmer I will repot right away into soil but not water until fall. In the ground, summer mulch is great for many bulbs. It serves to keep soil temperatures down. But if the mulch retains water it's not a good idea. And some people say some bulbs do better with a hot baking in the summer. I'm not sure it's true but I know some bulbs tolerate this baking and bloom well the following season. Take off the dead top stuff. It serves no purpose and is a mess. But look for seeds before you toss it! Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From arnold140@verizon.net Thu, 28 Jun 2012 10:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <31790112.432965.1340901806613.JavaMail.root@vznit170126> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: summer bulb storage Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 11:43:26 -0500 (CDT) Gastil: The answers to your questions would depend on the bulbs and location. I'm in Northern New Jersey and I over winter Dahlias and Alocasias in the basement where it stays cools and dark. All my SA bulbs that are winter growers go to the basement as well. The greenhouse gets much too hot during summers reaching 100 to 110 F at times. Best to try and duplicate their native growing conditions. Arnold New Jersey From jwickham@sbcglobal.net Thu, 28 Jun 2012 10:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <1340903349.70061.YahooMailClassic@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: John Wickham Subject: summer bulb storage Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 10:09:09 -0700 (PDT) I don't have a shed or garage to store my potted winter-growing bulbs, and its been an annual problem for me. This year, I got a bunch of cinder block and some fencing material, and built and ad hoc storage block in a deeply shaded corner of my yard. Its cool-ish, fully shaded, and the pots aren't nested, but resting on a shelf. I've always stored them in this area...outside in this deeply shaded area..and they come back each year fine. The main problem is protecting from critters who dig in the pots for various reasons. This year, I've got some hardware cloth frames over the top level and that seems to be handling the problem. I've learned, though, that certain species will start growing mid-August without any water to encourage them. So its important to watch. John --- On Thu, 6/28/12, Leo A. Martin wrote: From: Leo A. Martin Subject: Re: [pbs] summer bulb storage To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Date: Thursday, June 28, 2012, 9:37 AM Mary wrote > How are winter-growing bulbs best stored in summer?.... > I have an over-abundant supply of wood shavings.... > There is little chance of any rain here (just dew).... > ...rarely above 85 F. Not too humid nor too dry.... > If left in the ground, is a mulch recommended? > Is it better to leave the dry leaves and stalks on the > surface for insulation or better to clear those away? I think the ideal way to store winter-growing bulbs in containers is to store them undisturbed, in their soil in their containers, where they experience day to night variation in temperature and low average humidity. But, reality occasionally intervenes. In my experience, bulbs surrounded by soil or sand will dry out less than bulbs in wood chips. I would not deliberately unpot my collection to store over summer in wood chips under any circumstances. Bulbs in pots I or the dogs break during springtime gathering in get stored in new containers in soil but not watered until the next season. In your climate you could store containers in a well-ventilated outdoor shed. Keep summer rain off most winter-growing bulbs. You may learn the hard way which ones won't tolerate it and which ones will. Rodent protection will be mandatory. Rodents are ingenious and fit through tiny openings. First-year seedlings have a rough time with the first summer. You might consider not repotting seedlings for 3-4 years and storing them dry in the house, where it's cooler, the first summer. Divide and repot winter-growing bulbs while dormant, as late in the summer as possible so they are disturbed for as little time as possible before the next growing season. Of course, you have to repot when you have time. Repot large, tough bulbs early on and seedlings and small bulbs later in the summer if you are time constrained. If a container breaks during the summmer I will repot right away into soil but not water until fall. In the ground, summer mulch is great for many bulbs. It serves to keep soil temperatures down. But if the mulch retains water it's not a good idea. And some people say some bulbs do better with a hot baking in the summer. I'm not sure it's true but I know some bulbs tolerate this baking and bloom well the following season. Take off the dead top stuff. It serves no purpose and is a mess. But look for seeds before you toss it! Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu, 28 Jun 2012 11:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: summer bulb storage Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 10:14:08 -0700 Gastil wrote, >How are winter-growing bulbs best stored in summer? ... Is it ideal >to re-plant or re-pot as soon as possible and leave in dry soil >until autumn? Or is it better to store them in a cardboard box >filled with wood shavings, vermiculite, or some other packing >material, or without packing material? I have an over-abundant >supply of wood shavings. rarely above 85 F. Is it better to leave >the dry leaves and stalks on the > surface for insulation or better to clear those away? I live in a similar climate, and here is my experience. Replant or repot the bulbs immediately in fresh soil mix that is as dry as possible given your ingredients. Then replace them in their normal place, which one hopes would be a plunge bed in the case of pots. You can allow some winter-growing bulbs to dry out completely in summer, but some (e.g., many Narcissus and most Fritillaria) do best with a little sprinkle of water (not a soak!) every few weeks to keep the soil just barely humid. I clear the dry leaves and stalks away once they can be pulled free of the bulbs with very little pressure -- pulling them off earlier may pull up the bulbs or damage them. You can also cut off flowering stalks close to the ground if the sight of them annoys you. [Oh my, I see that my e-mail application is flagging "stalks" as if it is a bad word. It will also scream at me if I use a botanical name with the epithet "niger" in it.] I never used to mulch material in pots, but now that I have everything in raised beds, I use a pea gravel mulch. Regarding the "baking" that Leo mentioned, this is a word you will find in British books, and it should be banned from the bulb literature. Few bulbs in nature "bake," because they are so far underground or are growing amid grasses or scrub. There are some that grow close to the surface in very hot climates (e.g., Drimia, which insulates its bulbs with deep layers of persistent dead tunics or leaf bases), but most escape the heat at the surface. The idea of "baking" bulbs seems to have arisen among English growers who are keeping their bulbs in pots in alpine houses, in a climate where summers are (or were. when they were writing) not very warm. They felt that the bulbs would not form flowering stems if not given extra warmth. This is not a problem in most of North America. I avoid using bark or shavings with summer-dormant bulbs on the theory (intuitive but not by any means proven) that the organisms that decompose the wood products also attack the tunics (non-living tissue) of bulbs that have tunics. I have seen mycelia on bulb tunics that have been in soil including bark. This is why I always mixed my own potting soil rather than buying it, because it's very hard to find bark-free potting soil in this area (Pacific Northwest). Now my bulbs are all growing freely in pure sharp sand over a layer of clay and compost, and they seem to like it. However, you should never layer soil in pots because it will cause problems with watering, as detailed in the literature on growing alpines in pots. As for Ruksans's method of storage, this is a common technique used by European commercial growers who need to have their bulbs available for shipping some time after they've been lifted. It may also be that he has to plant his bulbs unusually late in fall to prevent their emerging too early in his cold northern (Latvia) climate. Dutch growers do that with some bulbs from milder climates, such as Calochortus. Commercial growers do use wood shavings (pine, mostly, I think) to store certain kinds of bulbs and also to pack them for shipping, but remember that they (at least the big firms) have temperature- and humidity-controlled facilities for bulb storage. There is no advantage to the bulbs in being stored this way, except to protect them from summer rainfall in areas where that occurs. When I was selling surplus bulbs, I kept them in a cool, dim room in paper bags, and I put some barely moist vermiculite around those that have no tunics (e.g., Fritillaria) or those that make root growth very early (e.g., some Narcissus species). They held well in this way for the six weeks I had them out of the ground. Well, I am not an expert at the level of a commercial grower, but these techniques have worked well for me for 20 years. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From othonna@gmail.com Thu, 28 Jun 2012 11:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: summer bulb storage Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 10:29:54 -0700 Gastil, I agree wholeheartedly with Leo about storing bulbs undisturbed in the soil. Unless there is reason for inspection-- suspected pests, disease, propagation (division) needs, etc., then leave them be until late summer or fall. I once unpotted all my lachenalias and put them in packets, shaded and away from heat, only to find that by planting time root mealy had spread through most of them-- which would not have been so easy for them if they had stayed in their protective soil mantle. Usually my bulbs stay in the same pot/soil for several years and I don't need the extra work of repotting annually. The mix is very sandy with lots of pumice, maybe 10-15% organic matter, so it lasts a long time before needing replacement. All the winter growers get covered with shade cloth through the summer to keep them cooler. Cheers, Dylan Hannon On 28 June 2012 08:51, Gastil wrote: > How are winter-growing bulbs best stored in summer? All top growth is dry > now and Im about to begin digging up or un-potting corms and bulbs. Some I > am digging up just to photograph them. Others need to be spread out from > too-thick clumps. Is it ideal to re-plant or re-pot as soon as possible and > leave in dry soil until autumn? Or is it better to store them in a > cardboard box filled with wood shavings, vermiculite, or some other packing > material, or without packing material? I have an over-abundant supply of > wood shavings. (My husband makes furniture.) I read in 'Buried Treasure' > how bulbs are stored in a shed but I wonder if that was only to keep them > dry or away from critters. There is little chance of any rain here (just > dew) and I keep critters out with wire mesh. Summer temperatures here are > mild, rarely above 85 F. Not too humid nor too dry. If left in the ground, > is a mulch recommended? Is it better to leave the dry leaves and stalks on > the > surface for insulation or better to clear those away? I would like to > hear others' experience with summer storage. > > > - Gastil > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- "*Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.*" ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton From marygastil@yahoo.com Thu, 28 Jun 2012 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1340909970.57675.YahooMailNeo@web161503.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Gastil Subject: summer bulb storage Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 11:59:30 -0700 (PDT) Thank you Leo, Arnold, John, Jane and Dylan, As Arnold notes, it should depend on the type of bulb and their native growing conditions. I have chosen primarily species from the Cape and Mediterranean climates to match the climate here in Santa Barbara. It is interesting to hear from your variety of climates. Given the near-certainty of no rain here until September, I will only dig up what I need to for other purposes, will re-plant immediately without storage, will remove dried leaves and stalks (no worries re seeds: Ive aleady harvested those). I will not mulch with bark-based material; I may mulch thinly with gravel, chick grit, or coarse pumice. Jane's note on avoiding bark-based potting mix explains the white fibers I have seen so I will make my own soil mix. I will not dig up any of the seedlings, as tempting as it is to check their progress. And yes, time is limited. Thank you for the practical and experienced advice. - Gastil From msittner@mcn.org Fri, 29 Jun 2012 10:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <20120629164232.5FB2DE8B82@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: summer bulb storage Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 09:42:29 -0700 I finally had time to read all the suggestions about summer bulb storage. This list is such a good source of information based on experience, not just repeating what is written in books. I would like to comment that there seem to be some bulbs that need a period of warm temperatures in the summer to bloom well. This may be where the idea of baking came from as Jane points out. Living in northern coastal California I can't always provide those temperatures. And not only are daytime temperatures moderate, but night time temperatures in summer are often very cool. People where I live don't have air conditioning, but they may build a fire in summer in their wood stoves or turn on the heat on chilly nights or early mornings. My greenhouse does get warmer at least during the day as does upstairs in my house. So I store some things in those places for the summer. I've been having much much more success with Nerine sarniensis hybrids since they got relocated to the greenhouse year round with occasional water in summer. I have great luck with summer rainfall Haemanthus and some Cyrtanthus species that live in the greenhouse, but poor results with a lot of winter rainfall South African amaryllids that are not in the greenhouse and I'm wondering if it is just too cool for them in summer. But I only have so much room so I have to make decisions about who gets to be in the greenhouse. Maybe Ferrarias would come up and bloom with more heat. I always unpot my Leucocoryne and store them in paper bags upstairs as they don't bloom if moved to the shade and kept in pots. It's just not warm enough. And for years there were a number of the beautiful Ornithogalum dubium hybrids that I stored dry upstairs and didn't plant again until I saw signs of growth as frequently they didn't come up otherwise. I'm sure some of those people would say don't leave pots out of soil would be horrified, but leaving them in soil didn't work for me. And I always unpot my Tulipa bulbs (when large enough) and store them in paper bags as well and repot them in December after prechilling them for four to six weeks first. Many of the Tulipa varieties I have grown have been coming back well for 25 years treated this way. And I unpot my Oxalis bulbs and store them in brown bags and send the excess to the BX. I try to get them repotted by August, but if I run out of time I just pot the ones that are already growing first and it doesn't seem to matter. Then when I do pot them up I can water them right away and not have to struggle with the water running around the sides of the pots in the too dry potting material leaving the pots still dry. (Someone on this list suggested watering from below and I do that on occasion, but I have too many pots and sometimes it takes days for them to absorb the moisture so this isn't really a practical solution.) In spite of these comments, I agree with others as most of the things I have growing in pots get moved to the shade for the summer and since I live in a climate like Gastil's we don't usually have rain and even if we did, it takes a long time for the soil to get moistened once has dried out and since it is rarely hot for more than a short period, I'm not dealing with hot humid weather that is very hard on summer dormant bulbs. The birds are as big a problem for me as rodents so I do sometimes try to cover the pots with wire which hasn't been totally successful. So I'd echo Arnold. And say the answer probably is that it depends on your climate and what you are growing. Fortunately since I'm now on the other side of growing more, if something doesn't make it in my conditions it just solves the dilemma of what to eliminate. I have a few candidates for the BX if I can find the time to unpot them. Mary Sue From nate.raingreen@gmail.com Fri, 29 Jun 2012 10:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4fede065.09e1440a.6d41.ffff8582@mx.google.com> From: "Nate" Subject: Crinum 'Bradley' dormant aspect?? Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 10:05:33 -0700 Wow its nice consulting with experts!! Didn't realize how easy it was!! Should have joined when I started designing ha ha ha. Thanks Alani and Steven! Nate From othonna@gmail.com Fri, 29 Jun 2012 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: summer bulb storage Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:23:53 -0700 I would like to add a few points that may be helpful, even if they pertain mostly to growers in warm dry summer climates like SoCal. While I generally keep everything-- a wide range of winter geophytes-- perfectly dry over our warm summers, with overhead shading, what Jane said about some of these plants needing a little 'off season' splash of water is very true. Usually such plants will give notice that they need or enjoy water while resting by holding onto some green leaves but this is not always true. Bulbs with perennial roots like most amaryllids presumably benefit more from such sprinkling than those that lose their roots entirely each season: many irids, oxalis, hyacinths, etc. Geographic range provides a hint: many East Cape and karroo bulbs are essentially winter growing (as with Haworthia, some mesembs, etc.) but are subject to significant summer rains that they need to be healthy and strong. Somewhere I read that California is the driest of all the Mediterranean biomes and that South Africa's Western Cape often experiences, by comparison, more summer precipitation that likely moderates an otherwise harsh summer dry period. What Jane stressed about sprinkling rather than drenching is very important-- the idea is to moderate soil conditions a little (contributing moisture and coolness) and not give so much water that roots are stimulated. Virtually all my repotting is done at season's beginning (Oct or so) or during growth. In my experience it is not good to repot any plant and then leave the soil dry and loose; the soil needs to be 'congealed' so that particles interlock and insulate roots and begin to attain structural integrity. Dry soil left to dry further can become hydrophobic and require rainfall or soaking from below to become thoroughly moistened again. Dry, unwatered soil also provides access to drying air and pests like root mealy. All my winter bulbs are exposed or partly exposed to the elements in winter. At least some direct sun is very helpful and I find that rain is infinitely more beneficial than any irrigation program. In El Nino years I always fear that some delicate plants will drown but after a week of rain almost all look better than ever. Dylan Hannon On 28 June 2012 11:59, Gastil wrote: > Thank you Leo, Arnold, John, Jane and Dylan, > > > As Arnold notes, it should depend on the type of bulb and their native > growing conditions. I have chosen primarily species from the Cape and > Mediterranean climates to match the climate here in Santa Barbara. > > It is interesting to hear from your variety of climates. Given the > near-certainty of no rain here until September, I will only dig up what I > need to for other purposes, will re-plant immediately without storage, will > remove dried leaves and stalks (no worries re seeds: Ive aleady harvested > those). I will not mulch with bark-based material; I may mulch thinly with > gravel, chick grit, or coarse pumice. Jane's note on avoiding bark-based > potting mix explains the white fibers I have seen so I will make my own > soil mix. I will not dig up any of the seedlings, as tempting as it is to > check their progress. And yes, time is limited. Thank you for the practical > and experienced advice. > > - Gastil > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- "*Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.*" ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton From clayton3120@cablespeed.com Fri, 29 Jun 2012 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: clayton3120 clayton3120 Subject: New subject: Something beautiful for your cut bulbs Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 17:51:42 -0700 Hi, Here's something beautiful for your cut summer bulbs. The new line is out and they're offering a free bud vase for orders $100 and up,not hard to do. www.doorpottery.com You'll have to find a liner for the vases tho. In order to get the finish, they are not high fired. When you see their offerings, who cares. Rick K. From silkie@frontiernet.net Fri, 29 Jun 2012 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <082901cd565d$27643bc0$762cb340$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: New subject: Something beautiful for your cut bulbs Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 18:10:34 -0700 This company's products and presentation are/ is VERY similar to Ephraim pottery https://ephraimpottery.com/ in Wisconsin. Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of clayton3120 clayton3120 Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 5:52 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] New subject: Something beautiful for your cut bulbs Hi, Here's something beautiful for your cut summer bulbs. The new line is out and they're offering a free bud vase for orders $100 and up,not hard to do. www.doorpottery.com You'll have to find a liner for the vases tho. In order to get the finish, they are not high fired. When you see their offerings, who cares. Rick K. From faeden4444@sbcglobal.net Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1341019407.69056.YahooMailRC@web83607.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> From: Marilyn Pekasky Subject: New subject: Something beautiful for your cut bulbs Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 18:23:27 -0700 (PDT) It's to be expected, since the founder of Door Pottery, Scott Draves, was one of the founders of Ephraim Pottery:  http://www.doorpottery.com/aboutscott.asp Marilyn Pekasky ________________________________ From: Colleen To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Fri, June 29, 2012 6:10:59 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] New subject: Something beautiful for your cut bulbs This company's products and presentation are/ is VERY similar to Ephraim pottery https://ephraimpottery.com/  in Wisconsin.  Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of clayton3120 clayton3120 Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 5:52 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] New subject: Something beautiful for your cut bulbs Hi, Here's something beautiful for your cut summer bulbs. The new line is out and they're offering a free bud vase  for orders $100 and up,not hard to do. www.doorpottery.com You'll have to find a liner for the vases tho. In order to get the finish, they are not high fired. When you see their offerings, who cares. Rick K. From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4FEE5878.6060307@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Zephyranthes and Habranthus Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 13:38:00 +1200 As it is winter here and nothing much happening in the garden (although there are lots of daffodils coming up etc) I decided last night to put photos of what Zephyranthes and Habranthus have flowered so far, in an album on Picasa. https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/ZephyranthesAndHabranthus?authkey=Gv1sRgCNj_oNuK9aakLQ -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From silkie@frontiernet.net Fri, 29 Jun 2012 22:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <083801cd567b$0863b250$192b16f0$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: New subject: Something beautiful for your cut bulbs Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 21:44:27 -0700 Ah, thanks. Did they split or are they just hitting two different price points? I just couldn't believe the similarity and thought it was a case of copycat. I would love to have a piece of the Ephraim for my posies, but it will not be a budget priority. Are you a potter too? Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Marilyn Pekasky Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 6:23 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] New subject: Something beautiful for your cut bulbs It's to be expected, since the founder of Door Pottery, Scott Draves, was one of the founders of Ephraim Pottery:  http://www.doorpottery.com/aboutscott.asp Marilyn Pekasky ________________________________ From: Colleen To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Fri, June 29, 2012 6:10:59 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] New subject: Something beautiful for your cut bulbs This company's products and presentation are/ is VERY similar to Ephraim pottery https://ephraimpottery.com/  in Wisconsin.  Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of clayton3120 clayton3120 Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 5:52 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] New subject: Something beautiful for your cut bulbs Hi, Here's something beautiful for your cut summer bulbs. The new line is out and they're offering a free bud vase  for orders $100 and up,not hard to do. www.doorpottery.com You'll have to find a liner for the vases tho. In order to get the finish, they are not high fired. When you see their offerings, who cares. Rick K. From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri, 29 Jun 2012 22:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Blooming in the heat. Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 23:53:25 -0500 Dear PBSers, This is a challenging climate under the best of conditions, but lately the temps have been exceedingly the norm. We've had a couple days ranging from 105 to 107 F, baking sun, drying winds and worse. A few hundred miles west of here in Central KS it has been up to 118 degrees and that is in the shade. Yesterday I was driving across the Missouri River and the car thermometer measured 112, but that reflected heat from the pavement and the water reflections. Needless to say the plantings are wilting almost daily and we have to water almost everything and almost every day. Pots evaporate amazingly quickly. So what takes this weather: Crinums are doing great. They all show some water stress with browning leaf tips, but 'Super Ellen' is the star just putting up its 6 or 7th flower stalk up to 6 ft tall. The color is an rich rose red, but the flowers do not last as long as they might in cooler weather. Still with many flowers in succession and many stalks there's been a show for well over two weeks. Various Crinum x powellii are also going to town. The typical pink form's flowers seems very stressed. The petals are normally thin and narrow and the hot drying winds really do damage. The white form I dug last year and donated dozens to the PBS BX, but kept 2 large bulbs. Both have put up two stalks -so far - and look surprisingly good considering they are not well established plants. We also have a few odds and ends- 'Catherine' is very unhappy with stems falling over and flowers very fleeting; 'Nestor's Pink' an improved x powellii is doing much better than typical and is a winner. 'Cecil Houdeyshel' is also holding up well. The first Crocosmia are also starting up. 'Lucifer' "was' an explosion of color in full sun until water hungry deer ate most of the flowers. The smaller and later 'George Davidson' has just started and so far avoided being eaten. Others will follow later. Gladiolus - Over the last couple years I acquired a few different G. papilio 'Ruby' from various seed and bulb sources. There seem to be two distinct color forms masquerading under this name. One is a clear bright red and seems the 'real thing', the other is a shade in dull mauve over red and definitely less showy. Still the more subdued color is interesting. The real test is if either will survive the winter now as both were planted out early this spring. Odds and ends Anthericum probably ramosum. Dozen of tiny white stars. Iris domestica and dichotoma the two parents of Candy Lilies (I x norrissii). A few Rain lilies, Zerphranthes and Habranthus; not due to any rain, but an occasional soak with the hose. Musa basjoo producing lots of foliage, but not attaining any height due to lack of rain. Others that get better watering are growing higher too. The strong winds sure filter out those that shred in a wind and those that keep entire foliage. There's probably something else, but most flowering is very set back by the combination of heat, drought and wind. Fingers crossed and enjoying what does manage to show some color. Best Jim W. in the Hot Heartland of Kansas City, Missouri -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From faeden4444@sbcglobal.net Fri, 29 Jun 2012 23:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1341033906.35112.YahooMailRC@web83602.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> From: Marilyn Pekasky Subject: New subject: Something beautiful for your cut bulbs Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 22:25:06 -0700 (PDT) I have no idea what they did.  I didn't even know of them before the OP posted his message.  Read through Scott Draves' bio for whatever info he decided to impart. No, I'm not a potter, but I know several who are excellent.  They mostly create pots for plants rather than vases, etc. Marilyn ________________________________ From: Colleen To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Fri, June 29, 2012 9:44:43 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] New subject: Something beautiful for your cut bulbs Ah, thanks.  Did they split or are they just hitting two different price points?  I just couldn't believe the similarity and thought it was a case of copycat.  I would love to have a piece of the Ephraim for my posies, but it will not be a budget priority.  Are you a potter too? Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Marilyn Pekasky Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 6:23 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] New subject: Something beautiful for your cut bulbs It's to be expected, since the founder of Door Pottery, Scott Draves, was one of the founders of Ephraim Pottery:  http://www.doorpottery.com/aboutscott.asp Marilyn Pekasky ________________________________ From: Colleen To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Fri, June 29, 2012 6:10:59 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] New subject: Something beautiful for your cut bulbs This company's products and presentation are/ is VERY similar to Ephraim pottery https://ephraimpottery.com/  in Wisconsin.  Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of clayton3120 clayton3120 Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 5:52 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] New subject: Something beautiful for your cut bulbs Hi, Here's something beautiful for your cut summer bulbs. The new line is out and they're offering a free bud vase  for orders $100 and up,not hard to do. www.doorpottery.com You'll have to find a liner for the vases tho. In order to get the finish, they are not high fired. When you see their offerings, who cares. Rick K. From frewintp@gmail.com Fri, 29 Jun 2012 23:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: terry frewin Subject: Zephyranthes and Habranthus Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 15:25:15 +1000 lovely collection Ina and a great record to have. Can't wait for some of mine to flower!! terry On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Ina wrote: > As it is winter here and nothing much happening in the garden (although > there are lots of daffodils coming up etc) I decided last night to put > photos of what Zephyranthes and Habranthus have flowered so far, in an > album on Picasa. > > > https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/ZephyranthesAndHabranthus?authkey=Gv1sRgCNj_oNuK9aakLQ > > -- > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- terry frewin 661 upper boho road boho 3669 03 5790 8635 0429 908 635 From bulborum@gmail.com Sat, 30 Jun 2012 00:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Zephyranthes and Habranthus Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 09:11:53 +0200 I can't agree more here the first buts are visible Roland 2012/6/30 terry frewin : > lovely collection Ina and a great record to have. Can't wait for some of > mine to flower!!   terry >> https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/ZephyranthesAndHabranthus?authkey=Gv1sRgCNj_oNuK9aakLQ -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From frewintp@gmail.com Sat, 30 Jun 2012 01:17:12 -0700 Message-Id: From: terry frewin Subject: Zephyranthes and Habranthus Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 17:49:21 +1000 must be summer Roland! All that is flowering here now are the Alstromerias (in the garden), the last of the Gladiolus serpenticola and an early Narcissus - one of the hoops - a pale cream/yellow (in pots). Wonder if anyone would hazard a guess as to what species this early one could be, if it stops raining I'll get a photo, terry On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 5:11 PM, Bulborum Botanicum wrote: > I can't agree more > > here the first buts are visible > > Roland > > 2012/6/30 terry frewin : > > lovely collection Ina and a great record to have. Can't wait for some of > > mine to flower!! terry > > >> > https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/ZephyranthesAndHabranthus?authkey=Gv1sRgCNj_oNuK9aakLQ > > > -- > R de Boer > La Maugardiere 1 > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email: bulborum@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- terry frewin 661 upper boho road boho 3669 03 5790 8635 0429 908 635 From bulborum@gmail.com Sat, 30 Jun 2012 01:17:12 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Zephyranthes and Habranthus Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 09:59:49 +0200 Have a look here Terry http://www.kevockgarden.co.uk/plantlist/Sb_narcissus_romieuxii_julia_jane.htm Your Gladiolus serpenticola I have never seen in flower I just googled it and there is a nice picture in the wiki Roland 2012/6/30 terry frewin : > must be summer Roland! > All that is flowering here now are the Alstromerias (in the garden), the > last of the Gladiolus serpenticola and an early Narcissus - one of the > hoops - a pale cream/yellow (in pots).  Wonder if anyone would hazard a > guess as to what species this early one could be, if it stops raining I'll > get a photo, terry -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From frewintp@gmail.com Sat, 30 Jun 2012 02:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: terry frewin Subject: Zephyranthes and Habranthus Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 18:19:37 +1000 thanks Roland. I have a named Julia Jane which hasn't flowered yet, so don't think that's what it will be - I'd say it's romieuxii or one of it's ssp or cultivars. forgot to mention the paper whites in the garden are in full bloom too, terry On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 5:59 PM, Bulborum Botanicum wrote: > Have a look here Terry > > > http://www.kevockgarden.co.uk/plantlist/Sb_narcissus_romieuxii_julia_jane.htm > > Your Gladiolus serpenticola I have never seen in flower > I just googled it > and there is a nice picture in the wiki > > Roland > > 2012/6/30 terry frewin : > > must be summer Roland! > > All that is flowering here now are the Alstromerias (in the garden), the > > last of the Gladiolus serpenticola and an early Narcissus - one of the > > hoops - a pale cream/yellow (in pots). Wonder if anyone would hazard a > > guess as to what species this early one could be, if it stops raining > I'll > > get a photo, terry > > > > > -- > R de Boer > La Maugardiere 1 > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email: bulborum@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- terry frewin 661 upper boho road boho 3669 03 5790 8635 0429 908 635 From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sat, 30 Jun 2012 02:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <4FEEC029.3090403@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Zephyranthes and Habranthus Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 21:00:25 +1200 Like you, Terry, the Alstroemerias are flowering as are the Muscari armeniacum Baby's Breath (hybrid probably). And it is very cold for Auckland, with 2 nights of frost, which doesn't happen often. Ina On 30/06/2012 7:49 p.m., terry frewin wrote: > must be summer Roland! > All that is flowering here now are the Alstromerias (in the garden), the > last of the Gladiolus serpenticola and an early Narcissus - one of the > hoops - a pale cream/yellow (in pots). Wonder if anyone would hazard a > guess as to what species this early one could be, if it stops raining I'll > get a photo, terry > -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From bulborum@gmail.com Sat, 30 Jun 2012 02:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Zephyranthes and Habranthus Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 11:11:53 +0200 What I understood is that it was a found in the nature and not a hybrid Roland 2012/6/30 Ina : > Like you, Terry, the Alstroemerias are flowering as are the Muscari > armeniacum Baby's Breath (hybrid probably). -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sat, 30 Jun 2012 03:17:12 -0700 Message-Id: <4FEEC790.4050706@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Zephyranthes and Habranthus Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 21:32:00 +1200 Ahh, so then it IS a species. I misunderstood you, Roland. So if it sets seed, I can label it as M. armeniacum Baby's Breath. Thank you. I looked up Muscari and see that it doesn't like anything warmer than Zone 9, so no wonder it is not a very happy plant. What a pity as I do like it. Ina On 30/06/2012 9:11 p.m., Bulborum Botanicum wrote: > What I understood is that it was a found in the nature > and not a hybrid > > Roland > > 2012/6/30 Ina : >> Like you, Terry, the Alstroemerias are flowering as are the Muscari >> armeniacum Baby's Breath (hybrid probably). > -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From klazina1@gmail.com Sat, 30 Jun 2012 03:17:12 -0700 Message-Id: <4FEECDD1.9050609@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: plants in pots Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 21:58:41 +1200 This presumably would also apply to bulbs. http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/18612661 Ina -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand zone 10a From ds429@comcast.net Sat, 30 Jun 2012 05:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <000001cd56b1$e625f5e0$b271e1a0$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 316 Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 07:17:12 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 316" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Jay Yourch: 1. Crinum bulbispermum seeds, all from Jumbo selections.  Very cold hardy. See http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumSpeciesOne#bul bispermum 2. Bulbs of Crinum bulbispermum 'Wide Open White' x C. 'Spring Joy' , from crosses which I made in 2006.  Their flowers are variable, showing the diversity of genes present in their parents.  They should be very cold hardy, likely doing well into zone 6.  They start flowering before any other Crinum in my garden, usually April here in central North Carolina, although they got started in March this year and continued into June.  There are bulbs with white flowers and bulbs with pale pink flowers, and they are labeled. See https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/117146306040106658755/albums/56030358 94028439249 3. Various sized bulbs of Crinum pedunculatum .  Fairly tender, Zone 8, but does well in colder areas if grown in a large container and protected from freezing temperatures. A greenhouse is not required, my spends each winter in a cool garage (above freezing) and looks nearly as good in early spring as it did the previous autumn.  While I enjoy its spidery, white flowers, I enjoy its architectural foliage even more. See  http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumSpeciesFour#pedun culatum From Terry Laskiewicz: 4. Small bulbs of Cyrtanthus loddigesianus, clear pink, original seed from SGRC. Plant immediately. 5. Bulbs of Hyacinthoides lingulata, fall blooming, "perfect leaves" 6. Bulbs of Notholirion thompsonianum, from Jane McGary Thank you Jay and Terry !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From hanshuizing@home.nl Sat, 30 Jun 2012 05:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <4FEEE31A.9050000@home.nl> From: Hans Huizing Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 316 Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 13:29:30 +0200 I am interested in the following: > 4. Small bulbs of Cyrtanthus loddigesianus, clear pink, original seed from Kind regards, Hans Huizing *H. J. Huizing* Wapendrager 38 7943 RP Meppel Holland // Tel: (0031) 0522-440717 hanshuizing@home.nl www.dehuizings.nl Get a signature like this. Click here. From john.bartlett72@yahoo.com Sat, 30 Jun 2012 05:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <1341057849.43411.YahooMailNeo@web120002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: John bartlett Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 316 Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 05:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Dear Mr. Sherk- From BX 316, please send me 1 each of Nos 2, 4, and 5.. Thank you. John Bartlett ( 381 Long Road, Gettysburg, Pa, 17325). ________________________________ From: Dell Sherk To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 7:17 AM Subject: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society BX 316 Dear All,       The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared.   If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 316" in the subject line.         Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS.     Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org ....         If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds.             I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Jay Yourch: 1. Crinum bulbispermum seeds, all from Jumbo selections.  Very cold hardy. See http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumSpeciesOne#bul bispermum 2. Bulbs of Crinum bulbispermum 'Wide Open White' x C. 'Spring Joy' , from crosses which I made in 2006.  Their flowers are variable, showing the diversity of genes present in their parents.  They should be very cold hardy, likely doing well into zone 6.  They start flowering before any other Crinum in my garden, usually April here in central North Carolina, although they got started in March this year and continued into June.  There are bulbs with white flowers and bulbs with pale pink flowers, and they are labeled. See https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/117146306040106658755/albums/56030358 94028439249 3. Various sized bulbs of Crinum pedunculatum .  Fairly tender, Zone 8, but does well in colder areas if grown in a large container and protected from freezing temperatures. A greenhouse is not required, my spends each winter in a cool garage (above freezing) and looks nearly as good in early spring as it did the previous autumn.  While I enjoy its spidery, white flowers, I enjoy its architectural foliage even more. See  http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumSpeciesFour#pedun culatum From Terry Laskiewicz: 4. Small bulbs of Cyrtanthus loddigesianus, clear pink, original seed from SGRC. Plant immediately. 5. Bulbs of Hyacinthoides lingulata, fall blooming, "perfect leaves" 6. Bulbs of Notholirion thompsonianum, from Jane McGary Thank you Jay and Terry !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From arnold140@verizon.net Sat, 30 Jun 2012 07:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: <347231.598602.1341065265501.JavaMail.root@vznit170126> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: New subject: Something beautiful for your cut bulbs Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 09:07:45 -0500 (CDT) The pottery is strikingly reminiscent of the Arts and Crafts movement. Google Teco, Van Briggle or Rookwood to get a look at where their ideas are coming from. Arnold From gentian21@comcast.net Sat, 30 Jun 2012 09:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: <3AAE21034B0648518821E6F426683E74@Squeeky> From: "gentian21" Subject: Blooming in the heat. Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 11:00:49 -0500 Crinum "Jumbo" has it's 5th spike in bloom, Crocosmia "Lucifer" has never been better, with blooms at eye level. Alstromeria "Laura", "Freedom" and psittacina blooming . The huge patch of psittacina was decimated in the center from drying out too much. Epipactis thunbergii still blooming, Agapanthus "Blue Yonder" and Cyclamen purpurescens. It always amazes me the Cyclamen purpurescens blooms during the hottest days of summer. My daily highs this week have been 98-100F but nothing seems to be suffering (yet). I think since the soil was already hot from previous heat waves everything shut down right away and didn't try to grow at night like the earlier heat waves. No rain since the heat waves started and before that precipitation for the spring was at 50% of normal while the water company has almost tripled water rates in the last three years. I only have 3 rain barrels but I save that mostly for the bog and gentians. Everything has more sun this year because of it being in the 90's in March. All the trees have produced smaller leaves and well as having more dead branches. It has helped that I took 40 flats of sensitive seedlings and put them in the garage temporarily under lights, especially the Primrose and Gentians. Frank Cooper, Central Illinois, zone 5b Record high 109F, record low -25F From ldiane.whitehead@gmail.com Sat, 30 Jun 2012 10:17:13 -0700 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: watering from the bottom easily Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 09:17:25 -0700 I saw some custom-made tray-like benches at Cistus Design nursery in Oregon. I think they were made of metal and could be filled with water to water everything at once. The water drains out through openings in the corner. Diane Whitehead On 2012-06-29, at 9:42 AM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Someone on this list suggested > watering from below and I do that on occasion, but I have too many > pots and sometimes it takes days for them to absorb the moisture so > this isn't really a practical solution. From jwickham@sbcglobal.net Sat, 30 Jun 2012 11:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1341078164.17877.YahooMailClassic@web81505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: John Wickham Subject: Moraea vespertina horticulture? Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 10:42:44 -0700 (PDT) Any advice on how to grow this? I thought it was dormant, so put it away for the summer. But checking my collection, I found one had thrown up a shoot. Is it a summer or winter grower? Water? Sun? Looking for any info. From randysgarden@gmail.com Sat, 30 Jun 2012 11:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Randall P. Linke" Subject: Moraea vespertina horticulture? Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 11:05:34 -0700 This species is from the northern Cape, so that would point to it being a winter growing species. Randy, Monterey Bay, California On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 10:42 AM, John Wickham wrote: > Any advice on how to grow this? I thought it was dormant, so put it away > for the summer. But checking my collection, I found one had thrown up a > shoot. Is it a summer or winter grower? Water? Sun? Looking for any info. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- * * A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right. - Thomas Paine --- * * From arnold140@verizon.net Sat, 30 Jun 2012 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <11728595.613363.1341080243671.JavaMail.root@vznit170126> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Moraea vespertina horticulture? Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 13:17:23 -0500 (CDT) John: In "Cape Bulbs" Manning states it flowers in Sept-Dec. and comes from the Bokkeveld Plateau. This is the Northern Western part of the Cape. Though Sept to Dec. would make it a spring flowering plant here in the N. hemisphere. Arnold From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat, 30 Jun 2012 13:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Moraea vespertina horticulture? Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 19:49:13 +0000 Winter growing. Sun. Large scented flowers similar to those of M. fugax in shape. Flowers in the afternoon. Seeds are very large for a Moraea. From santoury@aol.com Sat, 30 Jun 2012 13:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF25110AC19208-C70-48D62@webmail-m056.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Moraea vespertina horticulture? Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 15:52:40 -0400 (EDT) What happens if the growing point of an Amorph gets hit by too much sun and dried up / breaks off? I assume the tuber will wait another season before growing again? We're talking a couple of konjac, so nothing to write home about. From santoury@aol.com Sat, 30 Jun 2012 13:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF251162EAE1A7-C70-48D77@webmail-m056.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Amorphs Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 15:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Sorry - forgot to change the subject line. What happens if the growing point of an Amorph gets hit by too much sun and dried up / breaks off? I assume the tuber will wait another season before growing again? We're talking a couple of konjac, so nothing to write home about. From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat, 30 Jun 2012 13:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: watering from the bottom easily Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 19:57:06 +0000 Watering from below is very practical and labor saving if you have numbers of pots. But, pristine conditions are imperative as the slightest outbreak of disease will extend like fire. Nursery plastic trays are not difficult to obtain. Plastic is better than metal as can be more easy and drastically disinfected. Besides, metal is always cool in shade or in sun will roast the pots in it. In watering from below the most difficult is to adjust the proper quantity of water to let them the plants drink without drowning. From marie-paule.opdenakker@pandora.be Sat, 30 Jun 2012 13:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <84FC36D5DA034A40912C2AEC20C23279@PCvanmpaule> From: "Marie-Paule" Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 316 Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 22:06:54 +0200 Hello Mr.Dell, Can I have please these? 6. Bulbs of Notholirion thompsonianum, from Jane McGary Kind Regards, Marie-Paule Belgium -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- From: Dell Sherk Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 1:17 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society BX 316 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 316" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Jay Yourch: 1. Crinum bulbispermum seeds, all from Jumbo selections. Very cold hardy. See http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumSpeciesOne#bul bispermum 2. Bulbs of Crinum bulbispermum 'Wide Open White' x C. 'Spring Joy' , from crosses which I made in 2006. Their flowers are variable, showing the diversity of genes present in their parents. They should be very cold hardy, likely doing well into zone 6. They start flowering before any other Crinum in my garden, usually April here in central North Carolina, although they got started in March this year and continued into June. There are bulbs with white flowers and bulbs with pale pink flowers, and they are labeled. See https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/117146306040106658755/albums/56030358 94028439249 3. Various sized bulbs of Crinum pedunculatum . Fairly tender, Zone 8, but does well in colder areas if grown in a large container and protected from freezing temperatures. A greenhouse is not required, my spends each winter in a cool garage (above freezing) and looks nearly as good in early spring as it did the previous autumn. While I enjoy its spidery, white flowers, I enjoy its architectural foliage even more. See http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumSpeciesFour#pedun culatum From Terry Laskiewicz: 4. Small bulbs of Cyrtanthus loddigesianus, clear pink, original seed from SGRC. Plant immediately. 5. Bulbs of Hyacinthoides lingulata, fall blooming, "perfect leaves" 6. Bulbs of Notholirion thompsonianum, from Jane McGary Thank you Jay and Terry !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7260 (20120630) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From gentian21@comcast.net Sat, 30 Jun 2012 14:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <3971A181C1354363ACAF53CB215B8B05@Squeeky> From: "gentian21" Subject: watering from the bottom easily Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 15:24:38 -0500 My best trays I have are ones I got from a pizza place closing up. They were the trays they put the dough in and are about 2' x 3' and 4 inch high and very heavy plastic. I keep a couple in various places and if something needs a soak I put one in and move it when I go by it again. I do that for the odd plants that need more water then their companions. Frank Cooper From jwickham@sbcglobal.net Sat, 30 Jun 2012 14:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <1341090951.61087.YahooMailClassic@web81508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: John Wickham Subject: Moraea vespertina horticulture? Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 14:15:51 -0700 (PDT) Sounds like I've got a confused bulb! --- On Sat, 6/30/12, arnold140@verizon.net wrote: From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Re: [pbs] Moraea vespertina horticulture? To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Date: Saturday, June 30, 2012, 11:17 AM John: In "Cape Bulbs" Manning states it flowers in Sept-Dec. and comes from the Bokkeveld Plateau.  This is the Northern Western part of the Cape. Though Sept to Dec. would make it a spring flowering plant here in the N. hemisphere. Arnold From frewintp@gmail.com Sat, 30 Jun 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: terry frewin Subject: Zephyranthes and Habranthus Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 07:37:34 +1000 What zone are you Ina? I'm zone 9a and my Muscari do fine here, I'll have a look at Baby's Breath today as it should be up then. Has stopped raining and I can see heavy fog outside so hopefully today we'll get some sunshine! On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Ina wrote: > Ahh, so then it IS a species. I misunderstood you, Roland. So if it > sets seed, I can label it as M. armeniacum Baby's Breath. Thank you. > > I looked up Muscari and see that it doesn't like anything warmer than > Zone 9, so no wonder it is not a very happy plant. What a pity as I do > like it. > > Ina > On 30/06/2012 9:11 p.m., Bulborum Botanicum wrote: > > What I understood is that it was a found in the nature > > and not a hybrid > > > > Roland > > > > 2012/6/30 Ina : > >> Like you, Terry, the Alstroemerias are flowering as are the Muscari > >> armeniacum Baby's Breath (hybrid probably). > > > > -- > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- terry frewin 661 upper boho road boho 3669 03 5790 8635 0429 908 635 From bulborum@gmail.com Sat, 30 Jun 2012 16:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Zephyranthes and Habranthus Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 00:41:28 +0200 Maybe there are to many bulblets in the pot or not enough fertiliser Roland 2012/6/30 terry frewin : > What zone are you Ina?  I'm zone 9a and my Muscari do fine here, I'll have > a look at Baby's Breath today as it should be up then. -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Sat, 30 Jun 2012 16:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <410-22012663022592862@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: watering from the bottom easily Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 18:59:28 -0400 > > My best trays I have are ones I got from a pizza place closing up. They > were the trays they put the dough in and are about 2' x 3' and 4 inch high > and very heavy plastic. My best trays are made from soldered copper 20 gauge sheet and are almost 40 years old, 2x36x18 inches. Roofers that work in metals will often manufacture items like this during the "off" season. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USa Zone 8a and hot, hot, hot with weekly flushes of rainlily and crinum and ariseama and eucomis due to adequate rainfall in the garden this season From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sat, 30 Jun 2012 16:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4FEF87BC.3050009@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Zephyranthes and Habranthus Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 11:11:56 +1200 I am in zone 10a Terry, which is just too warm. I also have the ordinary M. armeniacum and it has never done well for me either. Lots of leaves but nary a flower. And I have replanted it and the same result, so it would not be that there are too many bulbs or not enough food, Roland. I'd plant it at the back with less sun, as it would be cooler, but they also want sun. I tend to stick with what agrees with this climate. So they will have to go to someone who would be able to grow it. Somewhere cooler. Ina On 1/07/2012 9:37 a.m., terry frewin wrote: > What zone are you Ina? I'm zone 9a and my Muscari do fine here -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From michaelcmace@gmail.com Sat, 30 Jun 2012 17:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <003a01cd5716$b5544bf0$1ffce3d0$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Moraea vespertina culture Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 16:18:49 -0700 John wrote: >>Any advice on how to grow this? I thought it was dormant, so put it away for the summer. But checking my collection, I found one had thrown up a shoot. Is it a summer or winter grower? Water? Sun? Looking for any info. Bob Werra gave me a few of these, plus some advice on how to grow them. First of all, they are winter/spring growers. The leaves grow in winter, the flowers in mid-to late-spring (at least that's what they do for me). The flowering period is quite long; in fact, one of mine is still putting out occasional blooms, even though it also has nearly-mature seed pods on it. The plants HATE being in pots of any kind. I have some in a regular (8-inch) pot that did not bloom at all this year. I put others in a treepot (14 inches deep) and they put up a couple of ratty-looking flowers. But I grew a few in the ground, in my heavy clay subsoil, and they bloomed magnificently. Bob reported the same sort of thing (he's the one who figured it out). The corms are large, thick and wrinkled, more like a Watsonia corm than what you'd expect from a Moraea. These plants are tough. Although yours is confused, I would be inclined to plant it in the ground somewhere where you can give it occasional summer water, and see what happens. General cultural advice: Lots of sun, and regular watering when in growth. Hope that helps. Mike San Jose, CA From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sat, 30 Jun 2012 17:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4FEF8C03.3030309@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: plants in pots Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 11:30:11 +1200 This presumably would also apply to bulbs. And would go with Mike's comment on these bulbs which just will not do well in pots. http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/18612661 Ina -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From randysgarden@gmail.com Sat, 30 Jun 2012 17:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Randall P. Linke" Subject: Moraea vespertina horticulture? Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 16:34:48 -0700 John Wickham wrote: > Sounds like I've got a confused bulb! > > It happens...