Cardamine hirsuta

Kipp McMichael kimcmich@hotmail.com
Wed, 03 Apr 2013 21:13:46 PDT
Greetings,
  We all know the adage "correlation is not causation" - but human nature makes it very hard to apply this concept consistently and we frequently fall prey to exactly this logical error. The ability of an organism to "come back with a vengeance" after disturbance is what makes a plant a problemmatic weed in the first place. As one of the most commonly-used herbicides on the planet, surely someone has run the 10x10 experiment Nhu suggests.  If roundup were such a potent weed stimulant, how could we not have documentation of this effect?
  Concerning Calfornia law and organic farming, the 5 year wait for organic land is not driven by concerns about Roundup specifically but about all the other persistent herbicides common in modern farming. Since we cannot know for certain what herbicides, insecticides or other chemicals have been used on a piece of land, the law includes a blanket 5-year wait (even though Roundup alone does not persist for anywhere close to 5 years). Further, 5 years is not actually long enough to insure farmland if free of all previously used chemicals. But there has to be some reasonable standard that allows people to gain organic certification (especially since nearly all the ag land in California was conventionally farmed for decades before the rise of organic agriculture).
  It is also quite clear from this thread that "GMO" is a topic loaded with confusion and influenced by what can only be labeled superstition: Why else would a gardender speculate that GMO contamination was responsible for weeds being weedy?
  There are indeed serious questions raised by modern farming monoculture, the overuse of pesticides/herbicides, and environmental impacts of GMO crops. At the same time however, the organic farming industry also has a monetary interest in convincing consumers to pay a premium for their products. Because few of the the actors here can be trusted, it's important to demand evidence concerning claims from either side.
-|<ipp
> From: silkie@frontiernet.net
> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 18:32:26 -0700
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Cardamine hirsuta
> 
> A few years ago I caved on my position of having an all organic garden and
> used some Roundup on a grass that is rhizomatous and endemic to this area.
> The Agricultural extension could not identify it, but it is broadly known.
> Many go to raised beds as a last resort.  Anyway, the Roundup appeared to
> kill the stand of the grass in a corner of my vegetable garden, but the next
> year it came back with a vengeance as if I had spoon fed it a tasty meal.  
> 
> Lepidium latifolium commonly known as Tall Whitetop or just Whitetop
>   http://blm.gov/ca/st/…  ,
> http://unce.unr.edu/programs/sites/… 
>  is another plant that seems to ignore Roundup.  The flowers are similar in
> appearance to Baby's Breath so vendors often come to this area to collect
> the flowers for free and then sell them as Baby's Breath thus spreading the
> seeds.  It is starting to invade our property and I am at a loss as to how
> to deal with it.  In the past we have kept it mowed hoping to stunt its
> growth.  This year I'm considering using a weed burner on it.  The Rancher
> across the road keeps it controlled by grazing, but it grows in the
> right-of-way along the road and the seeds blow onto our property.  Grazing
> controls it in our fields, but I do prefer to have flowers, lawn and
> vegetables on some of the land!
> 
> Point- if Roundup left no residue, there would not be the requirement (law)
> to wait 5 years after the last application to be considered organic
> 
> Colleen 
> NE Calif
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]
> On Behalf Of Alberto Castillo
> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 5:31 PM
> To: Pacific Bulb Society
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Cardamine hirsuta
> 
> Jadeboy, this is what we have been discussing in this thread. I assume
> everybody would know but clearly not. Genetically engineered soybean and
> other crops are being widely sown in South America, Africa, and elsewhere.
> This soybean, etc., has been genetically modified to become resistant to
> Roundup; this will kill most of the existing weeds AND native vegetation of
> all sorts but not the soybean. This way competition from other vegetation is
> eliminated. 
> 
> Christian, it seems Roundup has a sort of hormonal effect on Cardamine
> hirsuta boosting is germination to abnormally succesful rates. Otherwise
> there is no evidence that an effect on Cardamine was among the goals when
> projecting the product. As a matter of fact, germination improvement of no
> plant was ever mentioned among the product's "benefits". However there is
> not the slightest doubt that this actually happens from postings in this
> same thread. 
> 
> 
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