It is suggested that Allium ampeloprasum is the wild parent of Allium porrum. This is also suggested by their identical amount of DNA per nucleus. I measured only a single A ameloprasum from Portugal Kind regards, B.J.M.Zonneveld T +31 (0)71 527 47 38, T +31 (0)71 527 50 08 Einsteinweg 2, P.O. Box 9514, 2300 RA Leiden, The Netherlands E ben.zonneveld@naturalis.nl, I http://www.naturalis.nl/ -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: dinsdag 9 april 2013 23:36 To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 123, Issue 38 Send pbs mailing list submissions to pbs@lists.ibiblio.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org You can reach the person managing the list at pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Today's Topics: 1. Re: Narcissus pseodonarcissus (Jane McGary) 2. Cardamine bulbifera (Kathleen Sayce) 3. Re: (no subject) (Alberto Castillo) 4. Re: Narcissus pseodonarcissus (Mark BROWN) 5. Re: ?Cardamine bulbifera (Mark BROWN) 6. Re: Species Alliums being edible? Allium ampeloprasum (Mark BROWN) 7. Re: Narcissus pseodonarcissus (Peter Taggart) 8. Re: Narcissus pseodonarcissus (Mark BROWN) 9. Re: Narcissus pseodonarcissus (Peter Taggart) 10. Syringodea or Moraea (arnold140@verizon.net) 11. Re: Species Alliums being edible? Allium ampeloprasum (Bulborum Botanicum) 12. Re: Species Alliums being edible? Allium ampeloprasum (Mark BROWN) 13. Re: Species Alliums being edible? Allium ampeloprasum (Bulborum Botanicum) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 09:47:41 -0700 From: Jane McGary <janemcgary@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [pbs] Narcissus pseodonarcissus To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <E1UPbie-0001fM-3a@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Narcissus and Galanthus (snowdrops) planted in woodland or other shady areas are less likely to be attacked by bulb fly. I don't know whether this is because the insect prefers warm situations, or because the coloration of the fading foliage, which is said to attract it, looks different to an insect's eye in sun. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 10:58:18 -0700 From: Kathleen Sayce <ksayce@willapabay.org> Subject: [pbs] Cardamine bulbifera To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Message-ID: <DC424B6A-070A-4EC3-956B-A01F708F0494@willapabay.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mark Brown wrote: In northern Europe we have Cardamine bulbifera which can be a beautiful plant. Some forms however seem to insist on just producing bulbils and more bulbils instead of flowers. So, could PBS members in Europe help find and distribute good forms (flower producers) to this group? Along with the weedy annuals, there are some striking perennial forms. Perennial cardamines here are either summer dormant or wetland/damp soil and summer-growing species, including one rare endemic, Cardamine pattersonii, Saddle Mountain bittercress, which lives on mountain tops in wet seeps. Cheers, Kathleen Kathleen Sayce PNW Coast, WHZ 8, dryish cool summers & mild wet winters ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 18:44:40 +0000 From: Alberto Castillo <ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [pbs] (no subject) To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <BAY156-W32D025F6FAA94978A7A2EBAEC60@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Haylockia has been regarded as a subgenus of Zephyranthes for a long time. Basically it includes those species with a subterranean ovary when the plants flower. Only when the seeds are ripe the scape emerges and shed the seed in a matter of hours. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 21:36:27 +0200 (CEST) From: Mark BROWN <brown.mark@wanadoo.fr> Subject: Re: [pbs] Narcissus pseodonarcissus To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <331552634.41141.1365536187340.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f14> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Dear Jane, there are fine colonies in the sunny meadows of Narcissus pseudonarcissus as well as wild snowdrops here. I grow both in sun as well as in a more shaded area under hazel trees. I might just be lucky! So far. ? Mark " Message du 09/04/13 18:48 > Objet : Re: [pbs] Narcissus pseodonarcissus > > Narcissus and Galanthus (snowdrops) planted in woodland or other shady > areas are less likely to be attacked by bulb fly. I don't know whether > this is because the insect prefers warm situations, or because the > coloration of the fading foliage, which is said to attract it, looks > different to an insect's eye in sun. > > Jane McGary" ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 21:47:11 +0200 (CEST) From: Mark BROWN <brown.mark@wanadoo.fr> Subject: Re: [pbs] ?Cardamine bulbifera To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <588021111.41639.1365536831942.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f14> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Dear Kathleen and All, I would love to help on that score but it is not a local plant here. It was more frequent in the Chiltern Hills in England were I used to live. I did put it in my former garden in an out of the way place with Hyacinthoides non-scripta. They are both prolific plants here. I never have seen it in our local woods. I can get stock from a wild-flower nursery but it will not be a selection. It might be easier for others who have acces to wild populations? I would be very wary introducing this plant to another country though! I much prefer the californian cardamines you have been taling about! There are some really beautiful ones from eastern Europe too, which I must try one day. ? Kind regards, Mark ? > Message du 09/04/13 19:58 > De : "Kathleen Sayce" > Objet : [pbs] ?Cardamine bulbifera > > Mark Brown wrote: In northern Europe we have Cardamine bulbifera which can be a beautiful plant. > Some forms however seem to insist on just producing bulbils and more bulbils instead of flowers. > > > So, could PBS members in Europe help find and distribute good forms (flower producers) to this group? ?Cheers, > Kathleen ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 21:53:56 +0200 (CEST) From: Mark BROWN <brown.mark@wanadoo.fr> Subject: Re: [pbs] Species Alliums being edible? Allium ampeloprasum To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <426220898.41961.1365537236479.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f14> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Roland thanks for that tip! I had noticed that bulbs of garlic left in the ground produced a lot of leaves in spring. I have a great tuft right now in the middle of the veg plot! But I will still have a soft spot for elephant garlic. Spring planted cloves of Allium sativum never do much here. They get terrible rust and barely survive. Autumn plantings are fine. ? Mark " Message du 09/04/13 10:45 > Objet : Re: [pbs] Species Alliums being edible? Allium ampeloprasum > > If you want less heavy garlic taste you just use the leaves from the garlic > the plants you just leave in the soil the whole year > Good time for planting them is now > and you can enjoy them the whole summer > I have maybe 10 varieties for you if you want > > Roland" ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 21:06:26 +0100 From: Peter Taggart <petersirises@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [pbs] Narcissus pseodonarcissus To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <CAELwaKgLKNAxYYXnH7yi8BU4myeoGs_vaggWkOoQ7XLkypW8Pg@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think that your bulbs probably multiply as fast as the fly attacks them Mark. I have often observed this when dividing congested clumps. There are usually lots of infected bulbs which produce several smaller bulbs from the damaged basal plate the following year...... Peter (UK) On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Mark BROWN <brown.mark@wanadoo.fr> wrote: > Dear Jane, > there are fine colonies in the sunny meadows of Narcissus pseudonarcissus > as well as wild snowdrops here. > I grow both in sun as well as in a more shaded area under hazel trees. > > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 22:16:03 +0200 (CEST) From: Mark BROWN <brown.mark@wanadoo.fr> Subject: Re: [pbs] Narcissus pseodonarcissus To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <1983809825.42915.1365538563202.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f14> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I have been dividing wild populations for more than 28 years to get a big orchard full of them. I never once found a trace of narcissus fly nor ever in the snowdrop collection... I would love them to be immune! Mark > Message du 09/04/13 22:06 > De : "Peter Taggart" ? > Objet : Re: [pbs] Narcissus pseodonarcissus > > I think that your bulbs probably multiply as fast as the fly attacks them > Mark. I have often observed this when dividing congested clumps. There are > usually lots of infected bulbs which produce several smaller bulbs from the > damaged basal plate the following year...... > Peter (UK)" ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 21:42:37 +0100 From: Peter Taggart <petersirises@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [pbs] Narcissus pseodonarcissus To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <CAELwaKhyUC3HO6iWnEdYnKpzJxn7Bmfzj5ifmCTae22_sJErVw@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Then I envey you Mark! Peter On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 9:16 PM, Mark BROWN <brown.mark@wanadoo.fr> wrote: > I have been dividing wild populations for more than 28 years to get a big > orchard full of them. > I never once found a trace of narcissus fly nor ever in the snowdrop > collection... > I would love them to be immune! > Mark > > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 16:14:41 -0500 (CDT) From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: [pbs] Syringodea or Moraea To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Message-ID: <22839009.895001.1365542081586.JavaMail.root@vznit170184> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I picked this up from a BX 261 # 9 as Syringodea. Not sure it's not a Moraea. Any advice? http://flickr.com/photos/88332547@N03/… Arnold ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 23:16:31 +0200 From: Bulborum Botanicum <bulborum@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [pbs] Species Alliums being edible? Allium ampeloprasum To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <CABsCM2r70bo59P8_wtTqkhGyaJ9TJf3GkS-yBPXed-HZMwCPpw@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I have to spray against rust here too a little to late and there is no harvest Roland 2013/4/9 Mark BROWN <brown.mark@wanadoo.fr> > Roland thanks for that tip! > I had noticed that bulbs of garlic left in the ground produced a lot of > leaves in spring. > I have a great tuft right now in the middle of the veg plot! > But I will still have a soft spot for elephant garlic. > Spring planted cloves of Allium sativum never do much here. > They get terrible rust and barely survive. > Autumn plantings are fine. > > Mark > > > > > > " Message du 09/04/13 10:45 > > > Objet : Re: [pbs] Species Alliums being edible? Allium ampeloprasum > > > > > If you want less heavy garlic taste you just use the leaves from the > garlic > > the plants you just leave in the soil the whole year > > Good time for planting them is now > > and you can enjoy them the whole summer > > I have maybe 10 varieties for you if you want > > > > Roland" > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook: https://facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/… ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 23:21:48 +0200 (CEST) From: Mark BROWN <brown.mark@wanadoo.fr> Subject: Re: [pbs] Species Alliums being edible? Allium ampeloprasum To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <821699225.45777.1365542508343.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f33> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 What do you spray with? Do autumn planted bulbs get rust with you? Mark > Message du 09/04/13 23:17 > De : "Bulborum Botanicum" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Objet : Re: [pbs] Species Alliums being edible? Allium ampeloprasum > > I have to spray against rust here too > a little to late and there is no harvest > > Roland ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 23:35:20 +0200 From: Bulborum Botanicum <bulborum@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [pbs] Species Alliums being edible? Allium ampeloprasum To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <CABsCM2otVo_gTGz0+qSziKj6AUUYJEo4c6FYf=nR2vQ6GCfWLw@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I tried a few different ones Last year I was to late or the summer was so bad that the treatment didn't work I have to look after the weekend we leaf tomorrow-morning to Beauregard This year I try bouillie bordelaise Roland 2013/4/9 Mark BROWN <brown.mark@wanadoo.fr> > What do you spray with? > Do autumn planted bulbs get rust with you? > Mark > > > > > > > Message du 09/04/13 23:17 > > De : "Bulborum Botanicum" > > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > > Objet : Re: [pbs] Species Alliums being edible? Allium ampeloprasum > > > > I have to spray against rust here too > > a little to late and there is no harvest > > > > Roland > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook: https://facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/… ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php End of pbs Digest, Vol 123, Issue 38 ************************************