pbs Digest, Vol 131, Issue 40

Michael Masterson sdzoohort@yahoo.com
Tue, 31 Dec 2013 05:56:31 PST
Hello!  I recently purchased a couple seedlings of Crinum flaccidum from an Ebay listing.  I am wondering if anyone on this list has had any experience with this species.  From what little I can find about this bulb it would like to be dry in the winter?  Thak you for any help you can offer.

Mike Masterson
Southern California



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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Datura Trivia (penstemon)
   2. Re: Datura Trivia (Cynthia Mueller)
   3. Re: Datura Trivia and other marginal "geophytes" (pelarg@aol.com)
   4. Re: Datura Trivia and other marginal "geophytes" (Peter Taggart)
   5. Re: germinating Rainlily seed (Nhu Nguyen)
   6. Re: germinating Rainlily seed (Ina Crossley)
   7. Re: germinating Rainlily seed (Alberto)
   8. San Diego ? (The Silent Seed)
   9. Re: germinating Rainlily seed (Ina Crossley)
  10. Re: germinating Rainlily seed (Nhu Nguyen)
  11. Re: germinating Rainlily seed (Peter Taggart)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 10:44:09 -0700
From: "penstemon" <penstemon@Q.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Datura Trivia
To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <CBF66B13111347A893AF545758264657@bobPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8";
    reply-type=original

Shawn mentions Datura wrightii/meteloides. This might be the species 
sometimes seen in gardens here in the greater Washington, D.C. area. 
Carefully sited it is a good perennial here, and big old plants are very 
handsome. The flowers are deliciously lemon-scented in the evening; I've 
often heard them called "ladies of the evening".


The plants native to the southwestern US, including Colorado, are Datura 
wrightii.
Datura meteloides is a synonym for D. inoxia, a species from Mexico. (There 
is an easy, non-botanical way to test the difference. D. wrightii comes up 
the next spring after a cold winter, <-20C; D. inoxia/meteloides does not.)
See Barclay, New considerations in an old genus: Datura. Botanical Museum 
Leaflets, Harvard University, Vol. 18:6, 1959. Page 245 ff.
http://biodiversitylibrary.org/item/31905/…

Snowdrops are up, here. Even the expensive ones.

Bob Nold, Denver, Colorado, USA, Zone 6, or maybe 5, or 4.




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 11:52:38 -0600
From: Cynthia Mueller <cynthiasbulbs@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Datura Trivia
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <BAY407-EAS3062347C66D63F96CBEE89FB6CE0@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

My Daturas usually survive for about three tears here in Central Texas. They do die down to the ground every winter and return from coarse, thickened roots sometimes three inches in diameter and up to six inches long. Of course, here every seed that falls to the ground manages to come up unbidden. -Cynthia Mueller

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 30, 2013, at 10:41 AM, "Jim McKenney" <jamesamckenney@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> Jim McKenney wrote: "It's roots..."
>  
> What an (embarrassed) idiot! 
>  
> Jim McKenney
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, December 30, 2013 11:24 AM, Jim McKenney <jamesamckenney@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> Shawn mentions Datura wrightii/meteloides. This might be the species sometimes seen in gardens here in the greater Washington, D.C. area. Carefully sited it is a good perennial here, and big old plants are very handsome. The flowers are deliciously lemon-scented in the evening; I've often heard them called "ladies of the evening".
>  
> Most well established plants are seen near the foundations of houses, generally in the rain shadow of the eves. It's not likely to survive in the open ground. 
>  
> It's roots are somewhat like those of Mirabilis jalapa or a peony, and like the roots of the Mirabilis can be dug in the fall and successfully stored indoors,  dryish,  during the winter.  
>  
> Jim McKenney
> Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On , Jim McKenney <jamesamckenney@verizon.net> wrote:
>  
> Shawn wrote: "Interestingly, "jimsonweed" is reportedly a corruption of "Jamestown weed."  There is apparently at least one Datura species native to Virginia whose special properties were made known to the early colonists."
> 
>  
> Here's the passage from Robert Beverley's  the History and Present State of Virginia (1705) - I took this from the Wikipedia entry for Datura stramonium:
>  
> The James-Town Weed (which resembles the Thorny Apple of Peru, and I take to be the plant so call'd) is supposed to be one of the greatest coolers in the world. This being an early plant, was gather'd very young for a boil'd salad, by some of the soldiers sent thither to quell the rebellion of Bacon (1676); and some of them ate plentifully of it, the effect of which was a very pleasant comedy, for they turned natural fools upon it for several days: one would blow up a feather in the air; another would dart straws at it with much fury; and another, stark naked, was sitting up in a corner like a monkey, grinning and making mows [grimaces] at them; a fourth would fondly kiss and paw his companions, and sneer in their faces with a countenance more antic than any in a Dutch droll.
> 
> In this frantic condition they were confined, lest they should, in their folly, destroy themselves ? though it was observed that all their actions were full of innocence and good nature. Indeed, they were not very cleanly; for they would have wallowed in their own excrements, if they had not been prevented. A thousand such simple tricks they played, and after eleven days returned themselves again, not remembering
> anything that had
> passed.
> ? The History and Present State of Virginia, 1705  
> 
> I've often wondered if this is not the most frequently quoted passage from Beverley's History. 
> 
> Jim McKenney
> Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where jimsonweed is a common weed.
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, December 30, 2013 10:09 AM, Shawn Pollard <pollards22@yahoo.com> wrote:
>  
> The sacred jimsonweed (Datura wrightii / meteloides) is the most perennial of the southwestern U.S. species and can get become a large sprawling monster when happy in cultivation.  I'm not aware of it developing a geophytic root, though.  To be reliably perennial, it needs tough love.  The most perennial individuals I have observed, returning year after year, were at middle elevations (3,000-5,000 feet) in southeastern Arizona and West Texas where they freeze back to their roots every winter.
> 
> Interestingly, "jimsonweed" is reportedly a corruption of "Jamestown weed."  There is apparently at least one Datura species native to Virginia whose special properties were made known to the early colonists.
> 
> Shawn Pollard
> Yuma, AZ
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 12/29/13, Aad van Beek <avbeek1@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Onward through the fog! - More Drivel and Trivia :-)
> To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Sunday, December 29, 2013, 8:16 PM
> 
> Leo wrote
> 
>> We have several bulbs in the lower Sonoran Desert,
> including what we know as
>> Dichelostemma pulchellum, as well as Hesperocallis
> undulata. There are also Asclepias
>> and Datura species with undergound storage organs.
> 
> Datura are mostly annuals and some of
> them can become very
> weedy. Never seen a datura
> with underground storage organ.
> Do you have a name and picture of such a datura.
> 
> Aad
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 14:17:06 -0500 (EST)
From: pelarg@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pbs] Datura Trivia and other marginal "geophytes"
To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <8D0D3AADCD331FC-D50-5707A@webmail-m224.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


I collected seed of Datura wrightii near Kanab Utah many years ago, and they seem to be hardy near NYC, and I now have 2 plants grown from seed at our new location in Briarcliff Manor, a bit north of where we were before. I have seen plants of other provinence growing in the NYC area that are perennial as well (I think my collection might have slightly larger flowers, but not sure).  However the forecast calls for a recordbreaking low at the end of the week of -1F, which may or may not be preceeded by a snowstorm.  With snow cover I think the daturas and other things I planted out that I really hoped would not have to endure a really cold winter, such as Crinum bulbispermum (2-3 year old seedlings, planted deep), Musa bajoo, and various kniphofia species, gladioli hybrids that have been hardy in Tuckahoe NY for many years, among others should be safe but without snow cover I don't know how well they will get thru.  We've been down to 15 F or less, but
 near the house I still s
ee at least 2 oxalis spp (melanosticta is one of them) from S Africa with undamaged leaves, but I would be amazed if even this protected spot they make it.  At my school garden along a wall Amaryllis belladonna has some foliage and Scilla peruviana is pretty well grown out--they have done well there for years, along with a Dierama that is almost evergreen (and is still green as of last week).  A mature Crinum x powellii has survived in the school garden in an unprotected location on a slope for a few years, it will also be tested by this kind of low I imagine.  I actually can't remember seeing 0F for decades in this general area just north of NYC.  
Spring can't come soon enough,
Ernie DeMarie
Briarcliff Manor NY
Z7 or maybe this year Z6? 







------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 19:36:48 +0000
From: Peter Taggart <petersirises@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Datura Trivia and other marginal "geophytes"
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
    <CAELwaKhxPQ6p+EhGWncu4GQR=L_GfWbJ2nFS9zy5W6T7x=x+oQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Some forms of Scilla peruviana can take 0F
Peter (UK)


On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 7:17 PM, <pelarg@aol.com> wrote:
However the forecast calls for a recordbreaking low at the end of the week
of -1F, which may or may not be preceeded by a snowstorm.

> At my school garden along a wall Amaryllis belladonna has some foliage and
> Scilla peruviana is pretty well grown out--they have done well there for
> years,
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 19:28:09 -0600
From: Nhu Nguyen <xerantheum@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] germinating Rainlily seed
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
    <CAG=tLbjN6GZFSaAvimad6KO2x=JuOPzeBs7HpjYZP64YSzhCGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi Ina,

I haven't tried Trichoderma, but in my experience, good seeds will not
mold. The fungi will go after the bad seeds instead.

Nhu

On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 2:58 AM, Ina Crossley <klazina1@gmail.com> wrote:

> When germinating Rainlily seed, some go mouldy.  I wonder if I put some
> Trichoderma in the water, if that would work.  Has others tried this?
>


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 14:35:54 +1300
From: Ina Crossley <klazina1@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] germinating Rainlily seed
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <52C21F7A.3070001@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Sometimes all I get is not good seed, and as some Rainlilies are scarce, 
I like to do the best I can with them.  Will try and see what happens.

Thank you Nhu.

Ina Crossley
Auckland New Zealand zone 10a

On 31/12/2013 2:28 p.m., Nhu Nguyen wrote:
> Hi Ina,
>
> I haven't tried Trichoderma, but in my experience, good seeds will not
> mold. The fungi will go after the bad seeds instead.
>
> Nhu
>
> On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 2:58 AM, Ina Crossley <klazina1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> When germinating Rainlily seed, some go mouldy.  I wonder if I put some
>> Trichoderma in the water, if that would work.  Has others tried this?
>>
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> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
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> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/
>



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 01:43:56 +0000
From: Alberto <ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] germinating Rainlily seed
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <BAY168-W35919939D5489499F7DD41AEC90@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Try boiling the water first and using boiled water to wash the glasses, jars, etc.

                          

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 20:47:03 -0500 (EST)
From: The Silent Seed <tylus_seklos@aol.com>
Subject: [pbs] San Diego ?
To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <8D0D3E156DAEAFF-1AA4-58332@webmail-vd007.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Do any of you know, or live near, this company? Briggs Tree Company, in/near SD / Vista, CA? 
If so, let me know privately if you might be able to help me get some plants from there. 

Thanks! 










-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thesilentseed.com,     rare and unusual plants from around the world


tylus_seklos@aol.com



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





-----Original Message-----
From: Alberto <ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com>
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Mon, Dec 30, 2013 8:44 pm
Subject: Re: [pbs] germinating Rainlily seed


Try boiling the water first and using boiled water to wash the glasses, jars, 
etc.

                          





------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 14:56:46 +1300
From: Ina Crossley <klazina1@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] germinating Rainlily seed
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <52C2245E.3000303@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

The dishes go through the dishwasher, and then another rinse with clean 
water going through the dishwasher, so they are as sterile as I can get 
them.  Boiled water, sometimes I have but have not made a point of it.  
Will try that too.

Thank you Alberto.

Ina Crossley
Auckland New Zealand zone 10a

On 31/12/2013 2:43 p.m., Alberto wrote:
> Try boiling the water first and using boiled water to wash the glasses, jars, etc.
>
>                           
> _______________________________________________
> pbs mailing list
> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php
> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/
>



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 21:30:10 -0600
From: Nhu Nguyen <xerantheum@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] germinating Rainlily seed
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
    <CAG=tLbiC2oUR62wh=fkq23nHTgBR=AmBR8KirjSYig7B+kzHFg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Alberto, I've read about this boiling technique but being trained as a
microbiologist, it doesn't make much sense to me. Boiling the water and the
equipment helps, but doesn't stop the problem. If you want to be perfectly
clean, you'd have to boil the container, the lid, the water. The seed
coating will probably have inoculum on them already so you need to do a
surface sterilization. I suggest a 10% bleach solution + a drop of
detergent for a couple of minutes. Then wash out the bleach solution with
three good washes with sterile water, all the while working in a
containment hood where no microbes can get in. It's a pain.

I have never boiled water and some of my seeds sit in the unsterilized dish
sometimes for more than a week without any problems. If the seed is bad,
it'll get moldy in 3 days.

Nhu

On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 7:43 PM, Alberto <ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Try boiling the water first and using boiled water to wash the glasses,
> jars, etc.
>


------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 08:25:34 +0000
From: Peter Taggart <petersirises@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] germinating Rainlily seed
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
    <CAELwaKgfdz7jUw2PaU05uo-tURE6M77y3Uih5_yVO=vYR-GVkQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

sometimes helping may be enough, Reducing pathogens could let weak seeds
get started. My recourse would be a dilute chlorine bleach to wash
everything, including the seeds.


On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 3:30 AM, Nhu Nguyen <xerantheum@gmail.com> wrote:

> Boiling the water and the
> equipment helps, but doesn't stop the problem.



> I suggest a 10% bleach solution + a drop of
> detergent for a couple of minutes.
>
> On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 7:43 PM, Alberto <ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Try boiling the water first and using boiled water to wash the glasses,
>


------------------------------

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End of pbs Digest, Vol 131, Issue 40
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