Hi Tony; Only time for a short reply now. There are only 7 species of lycoris....two with fall foliage and five with spring foliage. There is a trove of DNA that backs this up, and we have studied the 700+ lycoris clones of lycoris we grow in the field, and our analysis agrees. All other lycoris are hybrids. There are many crosses between spring x spring, fall x fall, and spring x fall foliage types. All of the F1's hybrids between spring x fall show the fall foliage trait to be dominant in the F1 generation. We have not been able to determine how many times a backcross onto a spring foliaged species would be required to bring out the spring foliage phenotypes in the offspring. For seed set you will want to use one of the species are the pod parent, or the single fertile hybrid group listed below. Spring foliaged species chinensis (fertile) longituba(fertile) sanguinea (fertile) shaanxiensis (fertile) (probably not in the US...all plants sold under this name are fall-flowering hybrids) sprengeri (fertile) Fall foliage species aurea (fertile) radiata (fertile, except for the triploid form) Chromosome numbers vary widely within each species, so each clone would need to tested for any meaningful data. For example, see the published chromosome counts for Lycoris aurea 2n=12 Inariyama 1953)(Bose 1958) 2n=13 (inariyama 1937)(Bose/Flory 1963) 2n=14 (Inariyama 1953)(Liu/Hsu 1989)(Kurita unpub)(Roh etal 2002) 2n=15 (Bose/Flory 1963)(Kurita 1987)(Boufford/Ohba 1998)(Roh etal 2002) 2n=16 (Liu/Hsu 1989)(Kurita unpub)(Roh etal 2002)(Shi etal 2006)(Wu etal 2007)(Zhao etal 2008)(Huang etal 2011) 2n=22 (Furuta 1989) Once you omit the duplicate published names for the hybrids , below are the names for the remaining published hybrids, although it may turn out that a few more from this list will be duplicates. There is only one fertile published hybrid, L. x rosea (sprengeri x radiata v. pumila) x albiflora (sterile) x caldwellii (sterile) x chejuensis (sterile) x cinnabarina (sterile) x elsiae (sterile) x flavescens var. flavescens (sterile) x flavescens var. uydoensis (sterile) x houdyshelii (sterile) x rosea (same as jacksoniana) (fertile) x rubroaurantiaca (sterile) x squamigera (same as elegans, incarnata) (sterile) x straminea (sterile) When we finish our analysis and data compilation, we'll be sure to publish it on-line. We hope this helps. Tony Avent Proprietor tony@plantdelights.com Juniper Level Botanic Garden and Plant Delights Nursery Ph 919.772.4794/fx 919.772.4752 9241 Sauls Road, Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA USDA Zone 7b/Winter 0-5 F/Summer 95-105F "Preserving, Studying, Propagating, and Sharing the World's Flora" Since 1988, Plant Delights Nursery is THE Source for unique, rare and native perennial plants. From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Tony Carter Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 2:00 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Lycoris misc - Found Jim and David, Thank you for all of this content. The Kurita et al <https://www.jstor.org/stable/41967120/> is a fantastic resource. I have read through all of the previous discussions I've found on the subject and it has helped me a great deal but some of it (probably more than I realize) I do not yet understand. Of particular issue for me is the chromosomal relation to sterility versus fertility. I gather that in Lycoris, triploids are generally sterile or very close to it and that diploids are generally fertile although there are apparent, notable exceptions . I would like to be able to understand why at a basic level. With L. Straminea for example, is it because it has an odd number (2n = 19) or for some other reason? I have used Google to search things like 'basic plant genetics' and read a few articles but am having trouble finding a good primer on karyotypes beyond what Jim laid out in a past message. In a recent message Jim suggested larger plants and apricots or blues/purples as good hybridizing goals. It all interests me but the blues and purples do in particular. I'm in zone 8a and so am not very restricted by cold hardiness. What potential, available parents would be good candidates for this? Thank you, Tony Carter TX 75065 Zone 8a ________________________________________