PBS Forum

I've just a little note about chipping and twin-scaling.  

If you haven't done it, try it.  

Follow the instructions about cleanliness and you will get great results.  If you have a bulb to spare, don't be put off by this technique.  It works!  It's really quite exciting to watch little bulbs form from simple slices of bulb and plate.

Michael
Interlaken, NY 
USDA Zone... ground freezing winter cold and changeable

Well, that IS intriguing!  I will have to try a little longer growing season with them and keep them closer (likely not under) the lights.  It's always interesting to find out how others are growing plants.  

I've been fortunate to collect a few light carts when people divested, constructed a few, and modified bakers racks.  They all suddenly become a room full.  I do wish for a greenhouse.

I've got to correct a comment I made earlier.  Z. 'Big Dude' is a Tony Avent selection of LaBuffarosa.  I was checking the Wiki and found the history.  It seems I've been checking the archive a lot recently...

Rimmer - unfortunately, I don't have an option on the seasonal timing for most my plants.  I wish I did.  I'm sure your suggestions would make my plants thrive, but my lights are already full.  I already have SO MANY lights running over the winter, I think it actually likely helps my emotional state!  With the exception of Strumaria, most of the bulbous plants I grow are limited to being strictly summer growers.  The Strumaria are small enough to keep under the lights and only take up one full shelf.   I have one or two struggling Haemanthus and a few other winter growing genera under the lights, but for the greater part, I shut down the season around November.  Many plants go onto shelves and stored until spring.  I have to be rather heartless.  Usually the caudiciforms and other succulents are just fine.  Some struggle and I try to be careful with them.  Big pots, like the Crinum and Eucomis go in the cellar and get revived in spring.

Now folks reading this may think, "How many lights?  Is there really no more room?"  There are 20- 4 foot fixtures, 2 -300 watt LED and one 1000 watt LED.  I actually need more lights as it is... or a greenhouse... I'm working on that.  I've been moving towards LED with all the 4 foot fixtures by rewiring the old lines to accept the new tubes.  It has been helping considerably with the ability to offer more light without added expense.  But I digress...

Is anyone growing the more unusual Zephyranthes?  I believe there are quite good doubles available and unique colors.  I'd love to hear about it and see pictures!

I've had these for about 5 years now.  It seems it always takes me a few years to really the hang of growing something, regardless of how much I read about it.  Flower number 5 opened after this was taken.

Zephryanthes 'Big Dude', one of the laBuffarosa lineage, I think it was selected by the old Yucca Do nursery.  The flowers are really quite a bit larger than many of the others, like 'Lily Pies' and 'Cookie Cutter Moon'.  All are taken in for the winter, kept bone dry, and placed back outside in the spring.  Everything gets a good 6 months of active growth before drying off for the winter.  i poke around and refresh soil in the spring, at minimum top dress the first inch or two.

And yes, bulb files are treacherous.  

Michael
Interlaken NY Zone 6-ish

So here is quite a list, cut and pasted.  Contributors include Jim Shields in Indiana (Z5), James Yourch of North Carolina (Z7), David Fenwick in Devon, England (~Z8), and a nice essay from Dr. Jim Waddick, St Louis, Missouri (Z6).  I've included approximate USDA hardiness zones of contributors to give an idea of what we're seeing as to individual plant hardiness.  We're looking at information from almost 20 years ago.  That said, many of the the original zones listed have changed.  I grew up outside of Cleveland in a strongly Z5a.  It has moved to Z6a/b in the last 20 years.  Where I am now used to be Z5a, it's running Z6a/b in just the last 10 years.

I haven't seen many on PBS in recent months/years, only Shields recently and Waddick this past January.  James Yourch had a list of cultivars he was trialing in 2004 but I haven't heard a report.  Some really great information on stretching your limits are the old files.

Maybe I'll get this into a single Excel file.  Does PBS carry information files like that in the Wiki?

All said, it makes me want to try a few of these in the garden.  

Michael
Interlaken, NY Zone 6-ish


J.E. Shields (Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:42:59 PDT)
This has become a very interesting topic. Please keep up the lists!
Here we have two or three crinums growing out in the open nursery field,
just under about 6 inches of mulch in winter:
Crinum variabile -- large plants that have not yet bloomed
C. [bulbispermum X lugardiae] -- blooming right now
C. bulbispermum seedlings
In protected beds, on the south and east sides of a heated greenhouse, we have
C. bulbispermum bloom size
C. 'Ellen Bosanquet'
misc. x-powellii type plants
C. 'J.C. Harvey' that thrives and blooms multiple scapes
Otheres are still being tested.

James Yourch (Thu, 24 Jun 2004 07:22:39 PDT)
Tony Avent wrote a long list of Crinums hardy for him in central North
Carolina. I am also in central North Carolina and am north and west of Tony
so might be a few degrees colder. I agree with Tony on all of our many
duplicates.
I have a few more to add that I have tested in my garden that don't
duplicate any of Tony's:
Crinum rattrayii - a jagus form, in a protected location
Crinum asiaticum - in a protected location
Crinum x 'White Prince' - not sure if this is the same as what Tony listed
as 'Great White Prince', but mine is not a powellii.
Crinum x 'Super Ellen'
Crinum x 'Peachblow'
Crinum x 'Burgundy'


David Fenwick (Wed, 23 Jun 2004 23:33:11 PDT)
Hi All,
I grow the following list of Crinum outdoors in the ground, temps to -5C,
without protection. Most of the hybrids listed are of South African species.
Crinum album syn. yemense
Crinum bulbispermum (and its hybrids)
Crinum bulbispermum x album
Crinum bulbispermum x lugardiae
Crinum campanulatum 'Album'
Crinum macowanii
Crinum moorei
Crinum moorei 'Mousey Pink'
Crinum variabile
Crinum x powellii 'Bill Francis'
Crinum x powellii
Crinum x powellii 'Album'
Crinum x powellii 'Haarlemense'
Crinum x 'Bradley'
Crinum x 'Carnival'
Crinum x 'Cecil Houdyshel'
Crinum x 'Ellen Bosanquet'
Crinum x 'Elizabeth Traub'
Crinum x 'Emma Jones'
Crinum x 'Giant White Prince'
Crinum x 'Louis Bosanquet' (bulbispermum x macowanii) remake
Crinum x 'Magenta' (scabrum x moorei)
Crinum x 'Walter Flory'
Crinum x 'White Mogul' (moorei x abyssinicum)
Crinum x [forbesii x macowanii] x moorei

James Waddick (Sat, 26 Jun 2004 06:14:48 PDT)
We need more people like Jim Waddick and Jim Shields in the colder zones to
take our lists and keep pushing those envelopes.
Dear Tony;
I agree fully. Although there are just a few what I'd call
"Hardy Bulb Growers" on this list, I am surprised when one 'newbie'
suddenly discovers that Crinum x powellii can be grown outdoors in
Zone 6 or 7. I have been growing the Dutch commercial clone in Zone 5
for more than a decade.
I have tried a few cvs, certainly nothing like Jim S does in
his somewhat milder climate or those in even milder climates. I have
relied on the generosity of friends willing to test some cvs here.
They are too pricey for me to buy and die. Anyone have a form they
want to test for hardiness?
Currently in bloom:
C. x powelli- commercial close. This is certainly about as
vigorous and hardy as all, but the flowers are narrow petalled and
skinny. Often barely opening more than a meager trumpet. I used to
think it was pretty great, but compared to others now something of a
weed. Trouble is that in my climate bulbs can 'dig' down 18 inches
and deeper so it is a lot of back ache work to dig them out even to
give away.
However it is worth it as a dazzlingly exotic foliage plant
in this climate. Nothing really like it.
C.x powelli "alba"- a white commercial form, but much better
bloomer with pure white, open flowers. I'd dig, divide and spread
around, if I could borrow a back hoe.
C. bulbispermum- various seedlings. Always the earliest to
bloom and now almost done, but hardy and beautiful. Easy from seed. A
'Giant' strain from M Sheppard has done beautifully with little care.
Never seems to pup though.
'Cecil Houdyshel'- a named x powelli is much improved with
larger wide open flowers.
That's all that are blooming right now, but my favorite
remains 'Catherine' - pure white with the largest and flaring
flowers. Lightly scented and a beauty.
Although the color of 'Ellen Bousanguet' is gorgeous, it is
slightly less hardy and slow to recover from winter and bloom, but
has been here for 5 or 6 years.
Various others are hardy enough, but less reliable in bloom.
So I urge beginners in colder climate to start with C.
bulbispermum as it is very satisfying to grow and easiest from seed.
I'll try to get seed to Dell for the BX. Maybe it could be sent to
cool climate gardeners as a priority.
I also grow a few more tender sorts in large pots including
striped and bronze foliage tropical sorts. Just worth it as pot
plants.
So if you have wondered about whether it is hardy enough to
grow certainly try a bulbispermum of x powelli as these are fast
growing and cheap enough to risk in colder climates.

Arnold, 
I meant to ask, are you on the coast?  Zone?  It's great to see these growing this far up in the States.
Michael

Here is Tony Avent's list of Crinum that have been hardy for him.  Dr. Jim has a few more, as does Jim Shields.  Since 2004, I think Yourch has introduces even more that have exceptional hardiness.  Two others which appear to have hardiness (old posts and personal communications from Jenks Farmer, Jim Waddick, and White) have been 'Super Ellen' and 'Glory', x bulbispermum backgrounds.  Tony's list is a big deal.  I wish it would excite more people into growing these plants.  I'll keep digging around to add a few more names.

Michael
Interlaken,  NY Zone 6-ish

Hardy Crinum List
Tony Avent (Thu, 24 Jun 2004 04:33:13 PDT)
David:
I'll see your crinum list and raise you another list. All of these have
been winter hardy for us to at least 5 degrees F (-15 degrees C). We've
added many new species and clones not included here this spring to our trials.
Latin Name
Crinum 'Alamo Village'
Crinum 'Birthday Party'
Crinum 'Bradley'
Crinum 'Cape Dawn'
Crinum 'Carnival'
Crinum 'Carolina Beauty'
Crinum 'Caroll Abbott'
Crinum 'Cecil Houdyschel'
Crinum 'Claude Davis'
Crinum 'Elizabeth Traub'
Crinum 'Ellen Bosanquet'
Crinum 'Emma Jones'
Crinum 'Fancy Pants'
Crinum 'Fay Horn Buckel'
Crinum 'Flamingo'
Crinum 'Garden Party'
Crinum 'H.J. Elwes'
Crinum 'Hannibal's Dwarf'
Crinum 'J.C. Harvey'
Crinum 'Lorraine Clark'
Crinum 'Magenta'
Crinum 'Maureen Spinks'
Crinum 'Maximillian'
Crinum 'Mrs. Horace Kennedy'
Crinum 'Mrs. James Hendry'
Crinum 'Mystery'
Crinum 'Ollene'
Crinum 'Parfait'
Crinum 'Regina's Disco Lounge'
Crinum 'Rose Parade'
Crinum 'Royal White'
Crinum 'Ruth Dubuisson' clone
Crinum 'Saint Cristopher'
Crinum 'Sangria'
Crinum 'Schreck' clone
Crinum 'Southern Belle'
Crinum 'Stars 'N Stripes'
Crinum 'Summer Nocturne''
Crinum 'Sundance'
Crinum 'Twelve Apostles'
Crinum 'Vera Cruz'
Crinum 'White Queen'
Crinum 'William Herbert'
Crinum (bulbispermum x macowanii)
Crinum amabile
Crinum americanum
Crinum amoenum
Crinum bulbispermum
Crinum bulbispermum 'Frances Marion Galloway'
Crinum bulbispermum 'Sacramento'
Crinum x digwidii
Crinum erubescens
Crinum japonicum
Crinum moorei
Crinum moreii 'Mediopicta'
Crinum moreii 'StarBurst'
Crinum powelli 'Rosea'
Crinum x eboracii 'Pecan Tree Inn'
Crinum x herbertii 'Blockade Runner'
Crinum x powellii 'Album'
Crinum x powellii 'Great White Prince

Since I've been thinking about getting a Crinum thread running, this may be a good start to see if there's interest.

I've been growing 'Schreck' for a few years and this season it made a great display, three spikes over about 6 weeks.  (Picture posted here, blooming June/July .) Presently, it's one of a few in pots that I've decided to try.  I've been convinced to try C. bulbispermum in a protected location in the ground and will be placing that shortly.

Looking through some of the old posts, many over 10 years ago, I thought it might be nice to copy and reopen some of them that have particularly good information on hardiness and general cultivar selection.  Dr. Jim Waddick, Jim Shields, Tony Avent and Jay Yourch all had great things to say to help new growers.  (All mentioned here, please let me know it's not ok to copy your posts and bring them into the present.) If there's any interest, with a little time, it could get going.

At this point, and to add to the present post, from what I understand 'Ellen B." will be perfectly hardy for Jeron.  Apparently, many C. bulbispermum hybrids can be grown easily in Zone 7 and quite a few will make it in Zone 6.  

So who's growing Crinum? what cultivar or species? and where? in containers or in the ground?  

Michael
Interlaken, NY Zone 6-ish

Hi Rimmer,

WOW!  How fantastic!!!  I was so pleased with my single plant coming into bloom.  Your collection of them is striking -  that you brought them to bloom in 8 years is commendable.  Knowing that particular species (slightly) but also understanding the definition of what it means to be a "species", I would suggest that the plants you have are variations of the single species, E. mirabilis, that fit within the range of the definition of the species and not hybrids with E.auratiaca.  Just my two cents.  Alan Meerow would really have a more definitive answer.

Are those simply quart nursery pots?  I've been working with an 8" pot for all these years and only got it to bloom this past season.  What is the medium?  I went from a more moisture retentive medium to mostly pumice in the last two years and it seems to be better.  It also appeared to respond to heavier fertilization.  Is that the case with you?  Reading the Curtis Botanical article helped me understand the native growing conditions and I think those cultural changes got it to bloom.  My tray of seedlings seem much more interesting now that I may be able to get them to blooming size sooner than 18 years.

Thank you for sharing those pictures.

Michael

These photos were taken around February... something like that.  It's the first bloom for me, the bulb has been in my possession for somewhere around 18 years.  Purchased small, it took a while to grow and then it took longer for me to understand what it needed!  Eucrosia mirabilis appears to be self-fertile.  Seeds were amazingly quick to mature on the stalk and had decent germination.  I hope I don't have to wait 18 years for these to bloom!  We'll see if I can get this to post...

Michael

Wonderful!  Patience is key!  The flowers are beautifully upright, good form.  Nicely grown.  Are you getting any fragrance?  I've just started with some seeds.  We'll see what happens in the cold upstate NY growing season.