PBS Forum

Amazing, I was given two small bulbs last summer.

A short lesson on autumn flowering Narcissi

Narcissus elegans. From about Al-Hoceima to Nador and Melilla, then again from Tlemcen and Oran to Constantine in Algeria, and Mallorca and Ibiza islands. Flowering with 1-2 leaves.



Narcissus obsoletus, Tangiers peninsula and mountains in Fez area, somewhere dissapearing and allowing elegans to become dominant, appearing again in Tunisia (with possible hybrids with elegans in El Kala-Constantine, Algeria), Sicily, with a disjunct population in Málaga province, Spain (this one has been called Narcissus malacitanus with not very well-based reasons). With 1-2 leaves when flowering.



Narcissus serotinus, almost always one flowered, with a 6-cleft greenish crown. Southwestern Iberian peninsula and opposite Moroccan coast, with very few individuals on Formentera island. No leaves when in bloom, and usually not produced afterwards (the flower stalk does the photosynthesis).






I don't have adult cavanillesii, but it can't be mistaken for any of these.

Carlos Jiménez

And Drimia purpurascens (=Drimia undata, Urginea undulata)

Prospero autumnale alone

Hi, thanks for the advice. There is the 'insert' option as well...


Here the first truly wild Narcissus deficiens I saw in my area, with Prospero autumnale

Hi, autumn Narcissus are reaching their peak for me (Valencia, E coast of Spain, zone 10).

Narcissus obsoletus, Narcissus x perezlarae, Narcissus deficiens 'star morph', this one was rescued two years ago from a mound of earth by a roadside along  with some fellars, I thought they were Tulipa or Dipcadi serotinum.

Narcissus deficiens and Muscari parviflorum received from Malta

Narcissus broussonetii (allegedly, antiatlanticum) from the Djebel Imzi in Morocco, where the Dragon trees were found.

Sorry but I usually have little time to rename pictures, they can be scrolled down in order of citation.

Carlos

Hi, yes

According to Flora Iberica: external tepals 30-55(60) × (5)7-14 mm; perianth tube (6)10-30 cm.

Another hard topic...
Carlos

Hi

I am mainly interested in Amaryllidaceae, as some already know.

Regarding Sternbergia, with plants being often self esterile so seeds are not always available,  and genus being included in CITES so this makes bulbs not easily found (for all species which are not lutea, maybe sicula). 

I live in Spain and we have lutea (thoughjt to have been introduced, always sterile) and colchiciflora (native). 

Colchiciflora gros here in two types of habitat, semiarid areas near Madrid with continental climate (very hot and dry summers and cold winters), on gypsum-rich soils, sometimes under shade of Quercus (evergreen Quercus), and mountain meadows in more humid conditions, on humus-rich ground on limestone, mostly in northern exposures.

That has shocked me ever since I knew about the plants growing on gypsum, but I can cope with "ecological amplitude". 

Our plants flower from late sumemr to early autumn depending on rains and the fecundated ovary remains hidden until late winter, when the fruits like tiny melons emerge, remaining almost at ground level, the seeds ripening in late April to late May. Leaves are usually quite sspiralled, looking quite strange when seen in the field (to someone not used to Albuca spiralis and other Cape plants). The edge is SMOOTH.

I felt almost at ease with that.

Then I had a look at the PBS wiki and found two enigmatic sentences:

"Leaves are finely ciliate indeed"

(taken from S. schubertii) "Seed pods appear soon after to mature in a matter of weeks, in the same way Sternbergia colchiciflora does".

Then some habitat photos by Angelo Porcelli at the Gargano peninsula (Apulia, south-western Italy) are shown.

I asked Angelo and though he has not the plant in cultivatiuon anymore he told me that it occurs at 800 m in cool and moist beech trees (Fagus sylvatica) forest, the only site for beeches in southern Italy (except Sardinia and Sicily), and that the bulbs don't make it through the summer when brought to the lowlands. He could not confirm about the time of ripening of the seeds, but did confirm about the cilia. He has not better photos, unfortunately, so they can't be seen when zooming in on the image.

https://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Sternbergia/Sternbergia_colchiciflora_leaves_AP.jpg

https://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Sternbergia/Sternbergia_colchiflora1_AM.jpg


Her you can see plants from the Crimean peninsula and France, they are the same as ours:

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/105286436?fbclid=IwAR3l53kg2-9oRd49pMjZ-dfISiBW7VsAyDrM8n_gjO7_vUGxw48ekH5ZN94

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/107728731?fbclid=IwAR3-9xYXVRmQJkZr9st0UZkqtdoGFAjw1iWcHLfDuVcaq_m683IiXkpEAI0


After all this literature, my questions are:

Has someone seen the Gargano plant in habitat, os has it in cultivation, and can confirm or deny the information above?

And for anyone who has the plant, would you swap seeds or bulbs (bulbs only within the EU)?

Many thanks

Carlos Jiménez

Hi, thanks for the comments.

I have not seen P. obtusifolia many times, the fruiting stalk is about 25 tall, quite more than the local autumnalis. Yes, last photo are the emerging leaves of an immature bulb. I can collect some seeds if you want to try it. 

Jane, what was circulating as Acis valentina was in fact Acis ionica, I think it is likely thet this is what you have unless you have a reliable source (like, say, me). 

And well, there is no Acis valentina in Africa, just tingitana and autumnalis, possibly trichophyllum but I am not sure. I think you meant autumnalis. 

Acis valentina is very very similar to ionica, and to nicaeensis, am even more rare plant from Nice and Monaco (cited from Monte Carlo, possibly still surviving in the little space left by the casino and luxury villas). Then there is Acis rosea from Corsica and Sardinia, but there is very scarce information on it, it seems to bloom in late spring.

I looked intermedia up and some consider it to be our local obtusifolia, so it would be Prospero obtusifolia subsp, intermedia. I have no African material (but will next year) and can't confirm or deny on this subject.

Regards

Carlos

Hi, it's that time of the year when Acis valentina can be caught in bloom, here some photos taken today. It grows with Prospero obtusifolium here, one of its few locations outside northern Africa. I can't tell the location of the site to protect the plants from poaching, you surely understand.

Some plants have more rounded tepals, more "snowdrop-like" (photos 3, 4, 6).

It is the only strict bulbous endemic in my region (Valencia region, eastern Spain), not really threatened, but only really easy to spot for 15-20 days, so it seems more rare.

 Carlos Jiménez

Hi, I have just decided to start a Calochortus collection. I think I have good conditions for most species outdoors (zone 10, autumn-spring rainfall with a decrease in December-February, eastern coast of Spain near sea level).

I know there are many members from California, where most species occur.

I am interested in botanical taxa, with field data whenever possible (also Zephyranthes and Tigridia).

I can offer seeds of most species in Narcissus, or sometimes bulbs (within the EU). Also several rhizomatous Iris and some in subgenus (or genus) Xiphion, several euro-Asian Allium, Prospero (Scilla), Urginea undulata, Lapiedra martinezii, Acis valentina, Oncostema (Scilla peruviana group), Colchicum bulbocodium (=Bulbocodium vernum), Sternbergia (only EU for the moment)....

I am starting to water my pots but I have plenty of things still in paper bags, so if anyone is interested please feel free to tell me what you are looking for.

Thanks

Carlos

Hi, I have been after Urginea undulata from different sources, as I strongly believe there are still unnamed taxa (I want to start 'serious' botany).

A friend worked for some years in Algeria (I prefer not to reveal where exactly) and brought this plant. Sorry about the quality.

What we have her eis a plant with ciliated leaves and whitish flowers with a darker midstripe, but what has been typifiued as undulata is a plant woth smooth leaf margins and pink-salmon flowers.

I am stunend by this plant, does anyone have something similar?

I have recently been given one bulb from a Tunisian population which I've been told by a Dutch collector that is different from the Iberian / Sardinian plants, but it has not flowered nor sent out any leaves.

Opinions and photographs are welcome (and seeds or bulbs for exchange).

Carlos

note: the palnts in Israel have been named Drimia palaestina, they are closer to our plants. Then there is an obscure plant from Tunisia called Drimia ollivieri, but I don't know how it looks like. Finally, Moroccan plants have been named Drimia serotina, synonym Urginea tazensis. I haven't seen them either.

Hi, I don't write much, but as summer ends and plants resume activity, so will I.

For those who don't know about me, I live on the eastern Spanish coast (Spain), we don't have a specialy high bulb diversity but we have Drimia undulata, Acis valentina, Lapiedra martinezii...

Anyway I have been interested on Urginea / Drimia for a while. What is known and grown in California as Urginea maritima is not the true species, which is a hexaploid (2n=60) with whitish bulbs reaching about 15 cm only.

The massive bulbs with brick-red outer coats belong in Urginea numidica, a tetraploid which occurs mostly on the eastern Mediterranean, mainly Greek islands (except Cyprus and Rhodes I think), also on the Balearics, possibly Malta and the tiny Lampedusa island, probably also Pantelleria.

Then there is a diploid with white bulbs alsop, U. pancration, which frows from the Balearics (mainly Menorca) to Greece, including Sardinia, Sicily and Malta.

More to the east it is replaced by still anothere species, U. aphylla, which is present on the Turkish coast and islands, Cyprus (and Rhodes?) and Levant coast probably reaching Egypt, wher hybrids with numidica have been reported.

Then to the west there is U. maura, of which there is almost no information (but is sold by Oron Peri), and in southern Morocco and the Canaries there is another tetraploid, Urginea hesperia.

There are still two more poorly known species, one is Urginea anthericoides from the central-eastern Algerian coast, and D. secundiflora from near Rabat, Morocco.

One has to swap from Drimia to Urginea because most taxa have been named as a species in one genus, but a subspecies in another.

I have some of them and I look forward to write an article on the group.

Carlos

Hi, Randy, nice to read you, those are Biarum arundanum....