PBS Forum

Quote from: janemcgary on February 25, 2024, 02:10:23 PMI would like to offer a proposal for privately arranged exchanges via this forum. Individuals could post "want lists" in this topic for others to read. Those who have the desired species to spare could reply, offering their own want list of possible trade items, and the individuals could then email each other privately to arrange shipping.

I would enjoy "a subforum of the exchange area" where we could post private wants or offers and arrange trades of bulbs, plants or pollen privately.

Of course, it shouldn't upstage the BX or SX, and probably needs to happen within your country for phyto and shipping reasons.

Will there be a decision on this?
Who will be making that decision?
I VOTE FOR IT.

Ken

Your plants might be talking to you about their health and condition-

Here's a study suggesting they are communicating- we just aren't capable yet of hearing them- but other organisms (nearby plants, insects, animals, etc.) might be listening!

QuoteHighlights
•Plants emit ultrasonic airborne sounds when stressed
•The emitted sounds reveal plant type and condition
•Plant sounds can be detected and interpreted in a greenhouse setting
Summary
Stressed plants show... changes in color, smell, and shape. Yet, airborne sounds emitted by stressed plants have not been investigated before. Here we show that stressed plants emit airborne sounds that can be recorded from a distance and classified.
...
We developed machine learning models that succeeded in identifying the condition of the plants, including dehydration level and injury, based solely on the emitted sounds. These informative sounds may also be detectable by other organisms.


 https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(23)00262-3

Link to study article, found in CELL, here:
Sounds emitted by plants under stress are airborne and informative

Hello Clivia miniata growers/breeders!

Help me predict the survival of some variegated Clivia miniata seedlings.
I didn't breed these, so I know little about provenance of each group of seeds.
Here is the seedling tray: 
Group 1:  (Top of the tray- in roughly two lines- ten seedlings)
These are 'regular' Clivia miniata seedlings- orange bloom, non-variegated foliage parents.  It provides a comparison, as all were germinated the same time.  This group seems well on their way to solid growth...


If you have any experience with variegated seedlings:
In the middle of the seedling tray are several germinated rows, but seedlings seem to have a failure to thrive.  I am assuming this is due to the documented Clivia variegation issue that some offspring will express variegation in albino leaves- having no or too little chlorophyl for successful photosynthesis if this is manifest in all leaves.

Are these lighter colored seedlings (yellowish leaves) in the middle of the tray doomed?  I don't know if albino leaves would be totally white or light yellow as they are showing.   The leaf growth is stunted on these lighter yellow seedlings as well- compared to the variegated seedling leaf showing stripping, adjacent.  I assume these are siblings, but cannot be sure.  Time will tell- but I'm just incredibly curious.

FWIW: These seed were sold to me by a U.S. supplier who said they were Chinese varieties of variegated Clivia miniata: including 'light of buddha,' 'LiBan Color,' 'YuanBao Jade,' and 'Painter Color' varieties.

Hello all!

I'm doing some pollen collecting and saving from a modern hybrid Hippeastrum. 
Basically, I'm holding a small reclosable plastic bag (Zip-Lock snack bag) open, and under the stamens, which I then cut  and they (mostly) fall into the bag.  I know I could use more care with a pair of tweezers and my scissors.

Questions:
1) is the poly bag a good way to store this pollen in the freezer or fridge?  I'm wondering if a glassine envelope, or folded wax paper might have been a better option to help me later collect the pollen for use.  I'm wondering if the pollen is attracted to the plastic sides of the bag making later removal with my brush or cotton swab difficult.


^{My stamen/pollen storage baggie}

2) Which? Is the freezer or a fridge the best storage for a few weeks to a month- for Hippeastrum specifically, and maybe all bulb flowers generally?
3) Do you worry about moisture in storage?  Do you worry about to much moisture, or to little?  I.E. do you put the pollen bag in another sealed container (larger poly bag?) with a desiccant pack, or rice, powdered milk, etc. which might have a similar water absorbing effect, to prevent moisture spoilage?  Do you worry about dehydration of the pollen?  I know there is water vapor transfer through plastic bags.
4) Do you instead favor the cotton swab collection method?  I.E. use the cotton swab to remove the pollen now while still on the flower, then just put the cotton swabs in the bag to store, then use those same swabs to pollenate the next flower?
5) What is the best AGE of pollen when collecting it for short-term storage?  I'm assuming shortly after flower opening.  Some have said to pry open a flower and take the pollen then just before flower opening, but some hippeastrum have the stamen sheathed.

I'm a 'no worries' kind of gardener but would love to hear real world input from other professional or hobbyist hybridizers.

I confess I know this has been discussed in great length, but a search of the archives wasn't pulling up much for me.

Any collection/storage ideas?

I guess I'll try them.

Quote from: fierycloud on February 17, 2024, 06:51:51 PMSince the carotene is known bio-synthesized in the plastid....

Wow!  That's way above my abilities, fierycloud!

How do we 'proceed with caution?'

It's not surprising that any GMO discussion brings up the large, multinational corporations that have used GMO technology in the last few decades to make herbicide resistant plants and other ways many of us find distasteful, and possibly dangerous, either to us or the environment.

What is surprising, though, is what might be called the GMO'ed 'elephant in the room-' or the fact that for the past 100 years we've actually been mutating the genes of our plants for our benefit, and calling it selective breeding.

QuotePlant mutation breeding, also called variation breeding, is a method that uses physical radiation or chemical means to induce spontaneous genetic variation in plants to develop new crop varieties. "Mutation" is the source of most genetic variation and the motor of evolution. It is a natural process, which occurs spontaneously and slowly — over generations — in people, plants, animals and all living beings.

(....)
 Many crop varieties developed though mutation breeding have been grown all over the world in the last 100 years. Check out a few examples from Bulgaria, China, Cuba, Uganda and other countries.

What is Mutation Breeding?  This link from the International Atomic Energy Agency talks about it...  As does this independent article:

From Classical Radiation to Modern Radiation: Past, Present, and Future of Radiation Mutation Breeding
presented by the National Library of Medicine, National Center for Biotechnical Information, from where this quote comes:

QuoteAlthough advanced technologies, such as gene editing, have provided effective ways to breed varieties, by editing a single or multiple specific target genes, enhancing germplasm diversity through mutation is still indispensable in modern and classical radiation breeding because it is more likely to produce random mutations in the whole genome.

The coolest of this is space radiation- sending seeds into space and exposing them to space radiation.
We know mother nature uses mutation breeding to give us skin cancer from sun exposure.

So-
All the concerns we've voiced in the thread; the health effects,  the risk of "unintended consequences," or the "escaping of the pollen to the wild" and effecting environmental changes-
all of these have been possible for 100 years- not just past few decades.  Except for those centenarians reading this, we've been growing/eating/possibly spreading mutated genes- or GMO's our whole lives. 

What do I see from the past 100 years of GMO?  I might see more positives than negatives in my past, and the future looks INTERESTING.  Anyone looked at the glow-in-the-dark petunias?  https://light.bio/

GMO purple tomato seeds- Now for sale to home gardeners in the U.S.A.  Not my creation, and it's not me selling them!  But...
Would you?  Could you?
I know I've been eating modern GMO corn for 20-30 years in the U.S. 

see a news article here:
Gardeners can now grow a genetically modified purple tomato made with snapdragon DNA

QuoteMartin isolated the gene in the snapdragon flower that turned on and off the purple color. Next she took the gene and inserted it into the bacteria. The tomato could then take in the foreign genetic material and express this new gene.

It's curious that the EU has just been looking at their longstanding GMO regulations, and with the advent of the simpler gene-editing tech which really just exploded in use over the last decade, -everything from plants to vaccines to cancer treatments- They seem to think they are missing the boat!

European Parliament votes to ease regulation of gene-edited crops
Move is a major victory for biotechnology, but debate remains over patents and labels

QuoteEU-SAGE began to advocate for regulatory reform in 2018, when the European Court of Justice ruled that plants created with the genome editor CRISPR and similar methods that alter existing DNA—referred to as "new genomic technologies" (NGTs)—should be considered genetically modified organisms (GMOs) under EU law. Researchers argued that gene-edited crops should be exempt because unlike transgenic plants created by introducing foreign genes, they just have tweaks to their natural genes.

Of course, the Purple Tomato then would be gene-insertion (transgenic) and not the newer NGT'S using tech like CRISPR. 
Both of those GMO methods are much, much newer than the "Radiation mutation breeding" that should have been flagged as GMO.  Thats low-tech, and its been genetically modifying plants for 100 years, but still isn't treated as GMO by many.  (yeah, and I know somebody will point out nature has / is using transgenic methods even with us- making it perhaps the oldest GMO in existence...)

I'm no scientist, but... I might just give those tomatoes a try.
Your thoughts?

ken

Quote from: janemcgary on April 20, 2023, 11:00:23 AMIt looks like one of the commercial varieties known as Fosteriana hybrids.

Thank you, Jane.
I've been out with my paintbrush- hoping for more seed pods later this spring!

Have you seen this video / article by @Tony Avent  (a forum member) of Plant Delights on arisaema hybridization?  While maybe not EXACTLY your answer, it may prove helpful.

https://www.plantdelights.com/blogs/videos/arisaema-hybridization

Arisaema Hybridization: How to Cross Pollinate Arisaema - Jack-in-the-pulpit

EDIT: I have no experience with Arisaema to share...

Greetings!
ID please!

This tulip has naturalized at my parents zone 7 USA garden, and it was already established in a bed when they bought the house 60 years ago.  While I've bought many tulips over the years, none has truly survived and thrived for decades like this one.

Any ID for it?  It blooms now (early-mid season- with the daffodils and apricots) and grows in clumps about 10"  tall.  It does produce viable seeds, but I'm not sure if it is reseeding or increasing by offsets. 

There is a red version, similar in every way except color....  blooming a week or two later.
I'll collect any seeds they make this spring and grow them out to start a bed of my own.

Thanks in advance for your ideas.
Ken

 
  .

Piotr

I would offer another possibility:
The roots that you see 'floating' (or sinking,) may not have "detached from the seed," as you state, but may have only separated from the papery sheath during the float. Or, in other words, they've outgrown the sheath, and thus discarded it.
The roots portion in this case would still be attached to the newly germinated seed.  Lacking any leaf development yet, the seedling is now looking just like only a root segment, without the sheath.  Does this seem like a possibility?

Using the float method for hippeastrum (a Rhodophialala relative,) I've noticed when floated awhile, the root (and the very small seed portion it protruded from) may look like only a long root segment.  I saw this as I transplanted  several hippeastrum to a seed flat ladt week.  Some looked like just long roots that had separated from the sheath.  I think they'll  transplant succesfully.  I treated them like all the others seedling starts when transplanting.   I have never waited for leaves to appear during the float, but maybe others do.

I agree with Uli that not all paper seeds need to be floated, at least in hippeastrum species and hybrids.  I also use it when the seed is older.  I had some one-year-old Hipps seeds floating last week, with very good germination.  I like science projects, and floating certainly seems like one....

I also agree with CG100's post that when floating seed and I see a 3mm root the seedling probably needs soil, as he stated.  I transplant by poking a hole and laying the root vertical into the hole, with the sheath laying on top of the soil/sand.  Because the sheath is generally perpendicular to the new root, this works.  I give a hole a little squish to firm the soilaround tge root, and then sift a fine dust of planting medium over the seeds. I give them light so when the first leaves poke through, they have light.  They all seem to make it.

With hippeastrum, floating seems to add a step.   If your germination rate is as good in a moist seed flat, and you have the lights and warmth and shelf space, you can skip the transplanting step required by floating.  Also, the floating method produces the long single 'water root' vs. the soil germination method that produces the more normal roots in soil.  This may be a cause of loss or a seedling growth delay as the seedling transitions from water root to soil.  It seems that the seedlings don't seem to have a preference of one method over the other, though.

If I float them to long, I begin to see the finer hairs of what I assume are water molds attaching to the root and sheaths, and I figure that can't be good-so it's time to get them out!

Again, my experience is with Hippeastrum seed- both species and hybrids.  The others on this thread have more experience with Rhodophiala seed floating. 


I just started another float (because I don't have the shelf space just now for another seed flat.)  That picture attached.
Ken

#4 (above) is totally puzzling, as the IBS hasn't existed for a decade, and their website link  the chatbot quoted is a parked domain?

My recent conversation with chatGPT:  
(Subtitle: we're #2!)

[KEN]
Hey chatbot, can you give me a scientific definition of a geophyte?

[ChatGPT]
A geophyte is a type of perennial plant that survives through unfavorable seasons or periods by storing their nutrients in underground storage organs such as bulbs, corms, rhizomes, or tubers. These storage organs allow geophytes to remain dormant during adverse conditions and regrow when conditions improve. Geophytes are commonly found in areas with a pronounced seasonal climate and are adapted to cope with extended periods of drought, heat, and cold. They are an important component of many ecosystems and play a crucial role in maintaining biodiversity.

[Ken]
Is there a club or society I can join that covers the topic of geophytes?

[ChatGPT]
Yes, there are several clubs and societies that focus on the topic of geophytes. Here are a few options:

1.  The North American Rock Garden Society (NARGS) has a Geophyte Study Group that is dedicated to the study and cultivation of geophytes. The group publishes a newsletter, organizes events, and provides resources on geophytes. You can find more information about the group on the NARGS website: https://nargs.org/geophyte-study-group

2.  The Pacific Bulb Society is an international organization dedicated to the cultivation and conservation of bulbs, including geophytes. The society publishes a quarterly journal, organizes events, and provides resources on bulb cultivation. You can find more information about the society on their website: https://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/

3.  The Royal Horticultural Society (RHS) has a Bulb Committee that is dedicated to the study and conservation of bulbs, including geophytes. The committee publishes a newsletter and provides resources on bulb cultivation. You can find more information about the committee on the RHS website: https://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/bulbs/bulb-committee

4.  The International Bulb Society is an organization dedicated to the study and cultivation of bulbs, including geophytes. The society publishes a quarterly journal, organizes events, and provides resources on bulb cultivation. You can find more information about the society on their website: https://www.bulbsociety.org/

[ChatGPT]
I hope this helps you find a group that interests you!

Quote from: Martin Bohnet on April 02, 2022, 05:56:40 AMINaturalist has become a great tool....


....Since they offer project structures, why don't we create one for our members to join, so you can easily see when an observation was made by a PBS affiliate?

There is no downside to joining the PBS group if you use iNaturalist already!  The project is now set up (thxs martin)
https://www.inaturalist.org/projects/pacific-bulb-society

Some screenshots below from the iNaturalist app and web page showing the PBS group.
You do nothing differently in iNaturalist once you have joined, but once you join we can see each others observations in the group in our own individual iNaturalist app or web page.

A screenshot from the groups web page, and then in the iNaturalist app itself (showing we could use a few more group members!)

Quote from: David Pilling on May 21, 2022, 02:46:26 PMDo you have to advertise this group?

Apparently, yes!
We have to advertise this!

How?
Perhaps moving this thread to a different forum section where more people would see it, and post to the email list?

To be clear, you join the PBS iNaturalist group in your iNaturalist app or webpage  in iNaturalist- this link should show you, as iNaturalist and PBS have no connection to each other.

https://www.inaturalist.org/projects/pacific-bulb-society

You also don't need to be a dues-paying member of PBS to join the iNaturalist PBS group- come join it!  And, why not join PBS if you haven't already?