Hi, some already know that I have started a quest to get some South American Amaryllidaceae (also South African).
A person in Peru tells me he has "Clinanthus bicolor" available, but I can't find any information on this name.
The plant seems quite distinct, though, does anyone know what it is?
received_264080723223688.jpgreceived_333109286359613.jpg
Thanks
Carlos
The images are from Facebook as "Clinanthus sp. "bicolor" - maybe stolen????????
Why stolen? It's the guy's own Facebook, 'Viveroscar'... He posted some other photos where he says it could be a form of C. humilis... But humilis is always orange-red and grows in the high Andes, this plant seems to have been found in montane meadows at a lower elevation (Huancavelica, according to one of his posts).
Quote from: Carlos on January 23, 2024, 10:25:47 PMWhy stolen?
Because when pic's turn up on the www in more than one place, with no mention of owner etc., they are almost always stolen.
You did not mention a name or source when you posted originally.
Having no knowledge of the area at all, could it be a new species?
Ok, no I didn't, sorry.
Yes, I think so as well.
Alan Meerow, who is the expert on Andean amaryllids, has said that he thinks it most likely is a new species of
Clinanthus.
I may be mixing it up with another Andean amaryllid posted on Facebook, but I thought Viveroscar said a friend was going to publish this as a new species sometime in the future.
(And of course I would
love to get seeds of it!)
Yes!! I sensed this was new. Oscar has not told me about publushing it, in fact it was me who told him yesterday about doing so, and we might have an opportunity to get some bulbs to study. I am trying to know which permits are needed.
The EU and UK import laws are essentially the same - the exporter will need to provide a phytosanitary certificate issued by the responsible authority in the exporting country.
You will need to inform your authority when the import is to take place - in the UK, the appropriate authority is DEFRA - Depertmant for Environment, Fisheries and Rural Affairs; you will probably know the equivalent in Spain.
I rather meant collecting permits. No one will issue a phyto in Peru, at least not easily, even if I have the support of a University. No one will easily issue a collecting permit either, I'm afraid. That's how poaching is encouraged.
Carlos
Do you need a permit to collect anything in Spain?
In the UK, we are free to collect seed of anything. Only the very rarest of plants are protected from collection. We do sometimes have problems with people collecting where they have no permission, but that is theft.
Quote from: CG100 on January 26, 2024, 02:53:22 AMIn the UK, we are free to collect seed of anything.
Combined with my "right to roam" (England), I'll be the strange bloke wandering around your garden this afternoon.
There's satisfaction collecting your own seed from the urban environment and getting it to grow. A lot of people don't understand what you're up to or indeed why. I've also had a lot of pleasure from finding plants growing in the garden, seed having been spread by birds etc.
Another technique I have perfected is bumping into plants growing over people's walls, "oops I have bumped into that plant and a piece has fallen on the ground, in the interest of tidiness I will public spiritedly pick up the piece and take it home" - once home it becomes a cutting, and then a garden landmark "which I got from XXX".
More flagrant practitioners of the art arrive with loppers and claim to be 'hikers' keeping public footpaths clear.
Well, in Spain yes. I guess that we are becoming civilized or at least organized or just obbeying EU regulations on natural areas and threatened species (as UK did before Brexit, I don't know about the regulations in force now).
Any national or natural park has its own regulations, with allowed and forbidden activities. In some you can collect aromatic plants, camp, hike or even hunt, but in most of them collecting any plant is forbidden unless you have a permit for scientific studies. Outside protected areas, collecting is free on public land and you need a permit only for protected species, and/or on private land.
Regarding UK, I happen to need seeds of Prospero autumnalis, and I discovered that under the Wildlife and Countryside Act of 1981, 'it is unlawful to uproot any wild plant without permission from the landowner or occupier'. ANY wild plant, from a poppy to a rare Armeria, if I get it right. And I guess that land owned by the State, or the Crown, or municipalities, has a "landowner" and is possibly "occupied".
This might seem out of date, old-fashioned, or what you like, but to my knowledge, is in force.
Schedule 8 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, which is revised every five years provides a list of endangered plants.
So, well, freedom might not always be what we think.
UK laws have not changed significantly for many years, so far as native wildlife is concerned, although several laws were re-written into one (The Wildlife and Countryside Act) 40 years ago.
Laws affecting import and export have changed only for plants - the EU adopted the UK laws regarding animal import/export that had existed for many years here. Import/export laws/regulations with regards to plants have tightened enormously across mush of the world over the past 3-4 years.
You are correct about removal of plants in the UK without permission - this is theft, as I mentioned previously. It does not apply to seed. (Fungi are not plants, and although most people do not know, and those that do would be very unlikely to abuse the right, but anyone can collect fungi, literally anywhere, even from private gardens.)
It does not apply to seeds??? Then I can go to Devon or Cornwall or the Channel islands and collect Prospero seeds??
Thanks, this is a great change on the initial subject, but great news for me!!
Quote from: Carlos on January 26, 2024, 11:51:07 PMIt does not apply to seeds??? Then I can go to Devon or Cornwall or the Channel islands and collect Prospero seeds??
You still need permission to be there, but you can collect seeds. Just be careful not to disturb the plant.
To be completely legal, you would need a phyto' cert' issued by DEFRA and whatever import requirements Spain stipulates.
I would be very surprised if there were not good numbers of plants in cultivation within the UK. For instance (originally collected in Spain!!) -
Scilla autumnalis – RarePlants (https://www.rareplants.co.uk/product/scilla-autumnalis/)
I am sure that you know, but the latin name is used to cover many genetically distinct species which appear all but identical (a so-called cryptic species complex).
Permission "to be" there? Do you mean on British land? I have my passport.
Yes, I know all the legal procedure to import seeds.
It's not that I just want a generic Prospero autumnale, I collected several just two weeks ago.
I need indigenous stock from the British isles to compare with other plants around the Mediterranean. I know that many Iberian plants are in cultivation in UK.
Carlos, you may like this web page:
https://wildflowerfinder.org.uk/Flowers/S/Squill(Autumn)/Squill(Autumn).htm
There really is a "right to roam" in England - terms and conditions apply.
UK law has not diverged much from EU law - and we should leave it at that.
Where did my post in answer to Carlos go?
There is no right to roam in England (it is different in Scotland). As for Channel Islands and the like.................
Quote from: CG100 on January 27, 2024, 09:22:43 AMWhere did my post in answer to Carlos go?
Hmm which post in reply to Carlos? The one with you saying "You still need permission to be there, but you can collect seeds" is there. But there is not one post Carlos saying "I have my passport.".
Right to roam... " 8% of England is covered by the "right to roam"," seemingly I am not alone in thinking one can walk through a field of corn.
I don't understand the right to roam. I used to listen to Metallica's 'Wherever I may roam', maybe it's related... In Spain you can cross a field of corn or wheat or a vineyard or a forest if it is not fenced, only you are expected not to spoil the plants or disturb wildlife.
I understand EU's regulations. I have contacts who have contacts in Cornwall and Guernsey, they can ask for permission to landowners. Then importing the seeds is my problem.
Anyway, thanks for the link, David. Prospero is far more diverse than I expected. And I can see clear differences in several of the 'races' or 'citotypes'. But I'm just starting.
Let's go back to Clinanthus.
Peru has some laws and one of them roughly says that permits can be issued for scientific purposes. I will start working from that point.
I have emailed Dr. Meerow to know his feelings.