PBS Forum

Humans have a capsaicin receptor known as the Transient Receptor Potential Vanilloid 1 (TRPV1) receptor:

That's why it burns

Quote from: CG100 on December 02, 2024, 08:11:16 AM

Quote from: Arnold on December 02, 2024, 06:00:40 AMIt's always been a mystery to me how some plant material is toxic to one species and innocuous to other.

Mostly it is just a quirk of genetics, what a digestive, or other system, has evolved with.

Humans are one of the very few animals that can safely eat avocado.
A common wormer for dogs - avamectin, a secretion of some moulds - is toxic to a few breeds (such as dalmatians) as they lack a particular enzyme.
Some protective chemicals in plants are enjoyed by some animals - the characteritic flavours in brassicas are insect repellants.
No snake really wants to kill a human, but unluckily for us, many can hit you with a bite that delivers enough toxins to kill you many times over.
Many caucasians retain an ability to digest lactose into adulthood, but very many races do not - dairy food are not popular in the Far East, and elsewhere.
My father was untroubled by stinging nettles (something that I did not inherit, unfortunately).
Capsaicin is loved by many humans, and you can certainly become progressively immune to it to some degree. It has no effect on many, if not all, birds.

Birds do not have receptors for capsaicin. Capsicum is distributed by mostly frugivorous birds although opportunists are definitely involved as well.
The seeds of Capsicum are not able to withstand chewing, hence Capsaicin being irritant to mammals - to the point that you will vomit if you consume large quantities thereof.

Off the bat: Gethyllis ciliaris subsp longituba, although a named entity, is not a discrete taxon. The length of the tube is influenced by environmental conditions and is not genetic. We have found that the tube length varies from the size and vigour of the bulb to the light and cannot be correlated to any pollinator either.

Having said all that: your plant is Gethyllis villosa. Gethyllis ciliaris has glabrous leaves with a ciliate margin.

Here's the grasshopper. I must say ours are more red than black though and excrete brown foam.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictyophorus_spumans

You're welcome

Full sun. Otherwise the foliage is less contorted and more just a succulent strap!

The leaves are devoured by a red chunky grasshopper (I always thought it was a locust as it is rather large - two to three inches long) - I think it's called a red and black foaming grasshopper. It accumulates the toxins and secretes them from behind the thorax as a brown foam. If you have ever smelled Melianthus major foliage the smell is identical! We have them in our garden and it's a constant mission to catch and relocate them - I use kitchen tongs - they will destroy Clivia, Crinum etc in a day.
We adopted a young Africanis and she has a prey drive second to none - anything that moves is prey! She used to catch and maul them. After about the tenth victim she was retching uncontrollably. When she sees them now she barks incessantly so that I investigate and remove them. If not she paws them until they are disabled

But those are babies! I have seen clumps of bulbs north of Kleinsee on the plain between Brand se Baai and Koekenaap where the individual bulbs were 40cm in diameter! They were growing with gigantic Euphorbia tuberculata that were a habitat themselves for all manner of lizards, snakes and invertebrates. A beautiful stunning habitat that is luckily protected now as it is in the envelope of a wind turbine farm.

It's one of those places that creeps into your very being. You can't escape the feeling of ancient. It speaks to you in so many ways.
Whilst conducting search and rescue of all geophytes and succulents for the Sere Wind farm I was fortunate to be there for two successive growing seasons. Something that will always stay with me is a sense of connection with not only the landscape but the ancient people that inhabited it.
During operations we found a previously undocumented shell midden. Apart from the usual remains of shellfish shells and broken ostrich eggs, tortoise carapaces and the who's who of bones there was a stone. Not a discarded stone tool but a beautiful elliptical flattened stone - clearly polished by wave action - that was unlike anything I had seen around there. It was a rich copper brown with darker spots. It was singularly beautiful and lay in stark contrast to the bleached discards of the daily struggle. I kept it. It always reminds me that people are people. I always imagine someone being captivated by it and despite having to slog a considerable distance up a steep slope carrying a heavy bag of essential food to their camp, this object was beautiful and a treasure.

It should fit right in! You grow various other geophytes from the winter rainfall region of South Africa so this will not pose a problem.

It is from somewhat arid areas so it will definitely grow in your garden. It's a greenhouse plant in cold wet Europe.

I heard my name!
Veltheimia capensis is a widespread taxon occurring in winter rain and borderline winter/summer rain. Always somewhat xeric though.

I have seen it near Hutchinson (close to Victoria West) where it grew on dolerite tors with various Lamiaceae and other herbaceous shrubs close to Rock Hyrax dens. The leaves were narrow, slightly undulate, dark green with a light glaucous bloom, short peduncle (approx 20cm) and a small almost capitate inflorescence of slightly curved red flowers. They looked like a miniature version of the coastal form of V. bracteata. BTW this location was so cold at night that a 1.5 liter bottle of water that I left in the foot well of my vehicle froze solid overnight.

In the Western/Moordenaars Karoo I saw small very striking variants. They were growing in dwarf grassy scrub - only the inflorescences were visible. The entire inflorescence was 20cm tall with bright red flowers! The leaves were very narrow - conduplicate with undulate margins, very dark grey-blue glaucous. A very striking sight against the bleak grass. I passed by these plants almost everyday and was lucky to collect seeds (11!). They grew incredibly slowly and every year there was less until none remained. This location was also bitterly cold - I know because my vehicle sank up to the axles in quickmud below a dolerite dyke and I was stuck overnight.

In Hex River Pass were the most spectacular plants. The leaves were very broad like some forms of V. bracteata and a beautiful powder grey. Inflorescences were tall (50cm) and the flowers bright pink - they looked like a very robust V. bracteata. They were growing on a steep cutting in quartzitic sandstone scree in an ecotone between karroid scrub and Protea dominated fynbos. Sadly all poached.

At the southern end of Piekenierskloof Pass were plants very similar to the Western/Moordenaars Karoo plants except a bit more robust and flowers more pink than red. Similar plants are to be found in Malmesbury growing on granite but always under woody shrubs in the shade.

There is only one recognised variable species with all the variations grading into each other. If you made collections of each of the various extremities of the cline and never saw the gradient i.e seen in isolation, one would be inclined to view them as different. But they are best viewed as a single variable species: Veltheimia capensis

Hi @Uli 

I have found that generally Cyrtanthus grow well when grown im morning only sun. Because they have such papyraceous tunics I find that overheating of the bulbs is a major contributor to poor performance - the bulbs either cook or they lose all their roots.

Cyrtanthus falcatus is no exception. It is a cliff grower and it's roots are in cool crevices that are well drained. Unlike C. montanus and sanguineus that grow in horizontal cracks and fissures, falcatus grows in more vertical cracks and fissures.

My falcatus were all in 35cm diameter pots in a loose, rich well-draining medium topped with a layer of fine sharp grit to keep the medium from separating during watering. The bulbs sit on top with their roots and basal plates protected.

They were grown under 50% shade cloth permanently - no rain cover. They performed very well however I found that flowering was increased exponentially if they were kept dry during winter. I covered the pots with large plastic bags and on dry warm days would open them to air, closing up if rain was imminent.

Why don't you post some pics and create a separate post where we can discuss Cyrtanthus .
Cheers

It'll be fine. All the Ledebouria and other summer rain bulbs I've grown have all been exposed to our winter rain and never suffered.

The description is similar to both confusa and concolor in respect of foliage and bulbs. However both of those are gregarious in that they offset freely to form clumps. Also confusa has the typical pink and green flowers.

I've heard the name being applied to concolor before. It might just be an aberrant clone that doesn't offset?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236033953_Synopsis_of_the_genus_Ledebouria_Roth_Hyacinthaceae_in_South_Africa
I don't know if you've seen this document - it's the best source of information available.

@CG100 If your contact is ZA is who I think it is then you are being bs'd.
As I mentioned previously: the only Worsleya plants here are from an import from the Frankfurt Palmengarten by Goswin Matthaei. He gave plants to Jim Holmes (of Cape Seed and Bulb). I saw Jim's plants in flower for the first time in 1996 at an IBSA monthly meeting.

In 2003 I visited Goswin and saw his plants. He told me that he gave Jim a plant many years previously and showed me all the other plants he brought in from the Palmengarten.

I acquired a batch of seedlings from him. I mentioned to your friend that I had acquired Worsleya seedlings and could supply them - they informed me that they were getting seeds from Alan Horstmann who had acquired them from Jim.

The seedlings never made it to the third season and I subsequently found out that if selfed they germinate and grow but don't survive long. That's how I knew there was only a single clone in ZA.

Jim through the years sold offsets to collectors with deep pockets. He recently disposed of his stock (I suspect that he has the original plants at home - he told me that he kept a small collection of treasures at his house). My friend acquired three - I am growing them for him. He also recently acquired seeds from the Americas - I never asked where.

And that my friend is the saga of Worsleya procera in ZA.

The Antipodean propagules were sold to Dragon Agro nursery in the States so I'm not sure how your friend is still acquiring them from Ozzy.

I will deal with the wild-collected bulbs in a separate topic as I believe it should be addressed to a wider audience.

I am told that they are available/being propagated in RSA with one nursery which imported plants from Australia. I was not told, and did not ask, the price, although the implication was that it is large.

I only know of the few that I mentioned that are available in RSA. The Antipodean propagules were acquired by an American tissue culture lab - hence my comments re the cost etc.

As for bragging rights - the buyer of said imported goods - not the seller does so for bragging! People buy expensive treasures for bragging rights. The dealership doesn't do so for bragging rights, they're in it for profit, the buyer of the Lamborghini is in it for bragging rights.

No nursery in RSA is stocking ancient expensive bulbs for local sale. Nobody here would pay for it. The attitude is "I know where they grow". Only overseas Euros, dollars and Pounds pay for those.

Sorry KenP for hijacking your OP.

@CG100  As mentioned: there are very few Worsleya in RSA - they all originate from a single import and are offsets. I acquired seedlings (from the horticulturist that brought them over in his luggage!) and none made it past the second year - evidence of a single clone. Some of the original plants were acquired by the owner of Cape Seed and Bulb. He through the years sold occasional offsets at astronomical prices.

Nobody in RSA buys huge expensive indigenous bulbs for their own collection. They are for export. And they are most likely not even cultivated bulbs. I have grown, as an example, Brunsvigia orientalis from seed and after 20 years I had first flowering. Take the input costs into consideration and those plants have to be sold for stupid money just to recover costs - it is far more profitable to Clivia or Disa.
 As regards prices.......many a nurseryman with exclusive stock will name their price and wait. Those with the means to acquire exclusive expensive treasures will do so just for bragging rights.
If you're investing in bringing in super expensive treasures then you will want a return sooner rather than later given that plants have a knack of dying on you. The market in RSA just isn't there. Very few people will be able to justify spending ZAR 10,000 for a single Worsleya. They just aren't investment plants like cycads are or even Clivia - with those you can at least sell offsets or seedlings and make a return.

As for the US being expensive - the actual commodities are as is the phytosanitary certificate. ZAR is a weak currency. Why do you think everyone here wants to export bulbs?
And before you try and explain the market etc - I was a nurseryman for decades. I am very well versed in the market and its vagaries.

Ok. The only plants available in RSA came from the Frankfurt Palmengarten. I personally knew the horticulturist that acquired them - he was friends with the Curator.

I currently am looking after three of them for a friend. He acquired them from a very well-known bulb grower who acquired them from the same person I knew.

The market in RSA is way too small to justify the importation of such expensive plants. Good grief they barely sell anywhere.
The Australian propagules you speak of were acquired by an American nursery. And importing from the States is even more expensive.