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#16
Mystery Bulbs / Re: Ledebouria Agavoides help/???
October 27, 2024, 11:40:23 PM
The description is similar to both confusa and concolor in respect of foliage and bulbs. However both of those are gregarious in that they offset freely to form clumps. Also confusa has the typical pink and green flowers.

I've heard the name being applied to concolor before. It might just be an aberrant clone that doesn't offset?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236033953_Synopsis_of_the_genus_Ledebouria_Roth_Hyacinthaceae_in_South_Africa
I don't know if you've seen this document - it's the best source of information available.

#17
Current Photographs / Re: Worsleya bloom
September 28, 2024, 01:41:32 AM
@CG100 If your contact is ZA is who I think it is then you are being bs'd.
As I mentioned previously: the only Worsleya plants here are from an import from the Frankfurt Palmengarten by Goswin Matthaei. He gave plants to Jim Holmes (of Cape Seed and Bulb). I saw Jim's plants in flower for the first time in 1996 at an IBSA monthly meeting.

In 2003 I visited Goswin and saw his plants. He told me that he gave Jim a plant many years previously and showed me all the other plants he brought in from the Palmengarten.

I acquired a batch of seedlings from him. I mentioned to your friend that I had acquired Worsleya seedlings and could supply them - they informed me that they were getting seeds from Alan Horstmann who had acquired them from Jim.

The seedlings never made it to the third season and I subsequently found out that if selfed they germinate and grow but don't survive long. That's how I knew there was only a single clone in ZA.

Jim through the years sold offsets to collectors with deep pockets. He recently disposed of his stock (I suspect that he has the original plants at home - he told me that he kept a small collection of treasures at his house). My friend acquired three - I am growing them for him. He also recently acquired seeds from the Americas - I never asked where.

And that my friend is the saga of Worsleya procera in ZA.

The Antipodean propagules were sold to Dragon Agro nursery in the States so I'm not sure how your friend is still acquiring them from Ozzy.

I will deal with the wild-collected bulbs in a separate topic as I believe it should be addressed to a wider audience.
#18
Current Photographs / Re: Worsleya bloom
September 27, 2024, 06:43:49 AM

I am told that they are available/being propagated in RSA with one nursery which imported plants from Australia. I was not told, and did not ask, the price, although the implication was that it is large.

I only know of the few that I mentioned that are available in RSA. The Antipodean propagules were acquired by an American tissue culture lab - hence my comments re the cost etc.

As for bragging rights - the buyer of said imported goods - not the seller does so for bragging! People buy expensive treasures for bragging rights. The dealership doesn't do so for bragging rights, they're in it for profit, the buyer of the Lamborghini is in it for bragging rights.

No nursery in RSA is stocking ancient expensive bulbs for local sale. Nobody here would pay for it. The attitude is "I know where they grow". Only overseas Euros, dollars and Pounds pay for those.
#19
Current Photographs / Re: Worsleya bloom
September 27, 2024, 01:24:03 AM
Sorry KenP for hijacking your OP.

@CG100  As mentioned: there are very few Worsleya in RSA - they all originate from a single import and are offsets. I acquired seedlings (from the horticulturist that brought them over in his luggage!) and none made it past the second year - evidence of a single clone. Some of the original plants were acquired by the owner of Cape Seed and Bulb. He through the years sold occasional offsets at astronomical prices.

Nobody in RSA buys huge expensive indigenous bulbs for their own collection. They are for export. And they are most likely not even cultivated bulbs. I have grown, as an example, Brunsvigia orientalis from seed and after 20 years I had first flowering. Take the input costs into consideration and those plants have to be sold for stupid money just to recover costs - it is far more profitable to Clivia or Disa.
 As regards prices.......many a nurseryman with exclusive stock will name their price and wait. Those with the means to acquire exclusive expensive treasures will do so just for bragging rights.
If you're investing in bringing in super expensive treasures then you will want a return sooner rather than later given that plants have a knack of dying on you. The market in RSA just isn't there. Very few people will be able to justify spending ZAR 10,000 for a single Worsleya. They just aren't investment plants like cycads are or even Clivia - with those you can at least sell offsets or seedlings and make a return.

As for the US being expensive - the actual commodities are as is the phytosanitary certificate. ZAR is a weak currency. Why do you think everyone here wants to export bulbs?
And before you try and explain the market etc - I was a nurseryman for decades. I am very well versed in the market and its vagaries.
#20
Current Photographs / Re: Worsleya bloom
September 26, 2024, 12:02:52 PM
Ok. The only plants available in RSA came from the Frankfurt Palmengarten. I personally knew the horticulturist that acquired them - he was friends with the Curator.

I currently am looking after three of them for a friend. He acquired them from a very well-known bulb grower who acquired them from the same person I knew.

The market in RSA is way too small to justify the importation of such expensive plants. Good grief they barely sell anywhere.
The Australian propagules you speak of were acquired by an American nursery. And importing from the States is even more expensive.
#21
Mystery Bulbs / Re: Hitchhiker mystery bulb…
September 17, 2024, 04:43:23 AM
I'm confident with Allium. Allium tuberosum looks about right.

Here in Cape Town we have a similar scenario with A. triquetrum - they were very popular in the early 1900's and are everywhere!
#22
Bloody ugly would've been my answer

But @CG100 is correct Leycesteria formosa Himalayan honeysuckle
#23
Those look almost identical to the plants I saw in the Western Karoo.

A bit of a travel story - go onto Google Maps preferably with aerial photo (landscape features) view to get the full picture!
If one drives from Matjiesfontein to Sutherland there's a electricity substation named "Komsbetg Substation" on the right side of the road - directly opposite is a gravel road. There's a huge power line crossing the road -765kV. I was the botanical specialist on that project and had access to places where who knows when anyone else had been there.
Taking the gravel road one goes through at least three large farms (probably more) before reaching the northern-most limit of the eastern side of the Tanqua Karoo.
On the first farm there's a watercourse. At one point this "road" is parallel but about 15m or so above it on a ridge.
In the reedbeds I saw what looked like amaryllid iumbels - but huge! So I went and had a look - there were gigantic B. josephinae bulbs growing in clusters - whether offsets or multiple seeds had germinated in a spot I couldn't say. But they were huge - each bulb at 60cm across. I could only fit three umbels in the back of my Toyota Hilux load box!

I'll dig out my external drive and post some pics - maybe tomorrow.
#24
If you lift a bulb in full leaf and cut through the neck you will see that the leaves are opposed in two ranks - think a closed book but with a clearly visible plane down the center. (I saw this last week when cable installers cut through several large Brunsvigia orientalis whilst trenching)
#25
It's whatever you want it to be.

If you had a look at the pic of B. josephinae from Matjiesfontein and concluded that it displays distichous foliage..... well then it is what ever you want it to be
#26
@CG100 as I said - the leaves in the neck are distichous however they radiate when above ground. So yes the leaves are distichous for a small portion and the majority is not distichously orientated.
When I hear or read distichous I see oppositely opposed leaves like the pages of a book.
Having seen almost all Brunsvigia in habitat I can vouch that just like Crossyne the foliage is distichous in the neck and thereafter radiates outwards at various angles to the neck and are no longer oppositely opposed.
#27
@CG100 I do not have Graham's book at hand for reference, however I can't imagine that he would say Brunsvigia have distichous leaves. Boophane has distichous leaves. Clivia has distichous leaves. Maybe you read that a synapomorphy of Amaryllidaceae is that the leaves are distichous in the neck of the bulb? Brunsvigia leaves are distichous in the neck - in fact they have amongst the more laterally compressed necks of any of the Amaryllidaceae (along with Crossyne) but once they emerge the leaf pattern is most certainly not distichous. Refer to especially pictures of B. josephinae foliage in the PBS wiki.

@Too Many Plants! I think you are correct: B. josephinae is the best fit.
#28
To the best of my knowledge no Brunsvigia has distichous foliage. And the pics don't show distichous foliage.

It's most likely a Brunsvigia - I'm not sure which species as I've not observed foliage like that.
#29
And I forgot to add: the leaves were broad 7cm+. That's the other thing about your plant - the foliage is very narrow. But as mentioned above I've only seen plants from one part of their distribution range so there could very well be geographic variation.
#30
You are most likely correct.

I have never seen B. josephinae foliage like that though I'm sure there are some regional variations. All the plants I've seen in habitat (only in the Western Karoo mind you) all had broad green leaves - a few with a slight glaucous bloom.

The bulb and inflorescence look spot on for B. josephinae.