PBS Forum

So I have grown what was supposed to be G. flanaganii twice from seed.  Both times they grew quite fast, but both times I didn't get to storing the bulbs inside for the winter, and of course, they froze.  (I live in zone 4.)  They didn't bloom (should they have?), consequently, I can't actually say they were true to name.

This third time (all 3 batches from different sources), from the very start they have been growing very slowly.  And now they are all going to put up flowers at such a small size!  The only difference I can think of is that this time I started them in early March under lights (15hrs light/9hrs dark) until I could bring them out in late April.  The first two batches I started outside in May.   Could they be sensitive to night length?  Temperature?

Bulb color can be deceiving because it can change, and there is always the possibility of species variability, too.
Lilium davidii is a good example.
-- Freshly dug bulbs


-- These same bulbs (plus some others) twelve days later, exposed to air in the garage.


-- Bulbs expose to light in the garage.
  

-- The exact same bulbs, showing the "dark" side of the bulbs (opposite the window) 
 

And there is more to it than even that.  This is the exact same L. distichum plant as the bulb I previously showed.  That one (above) was grown in a sand and compost mix.  This is the same bulb, years before when it grew in a very heavy rich clay.
 

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Ya know, bulbs are beautiful.....

"Jointed" scales is another name for "articulate" scales. Same thing.  Here are some pics.  First two of an open pollenated Super Tsing cross, the last one is Lilium distichum.

The "rounder but still triangular" bud one might be L. tsingtauense, assuming the flower in the lower right is not part of it.  That one shows the flower nodding.

All your other pics, Rimmer, I still say are hybrid(s).  Also should have described the triangular buds as being strongly ribbed, too.  Distichum buds are not so.  l. distichum bulbs have articulated scales, too.


Lumitina, interesting about your "L. miqulianum".  I too, have a clone "L. miquelianum" (a natural hybrid of L. tsingtauense x L. distichum or L. medeoloides), it also has just one whorl of leaves but bulbs never have articulated scales, and leaves are more wavy than any supposed L. tsingtauense I've seen.  Attached some pics of it.  I received the clone from a man who had it at least since 1985.

All of those pics show hybrid(s), in my opinion.  As you say, they are a blur, and I don't see any real differences between your pics.  It would be helpful if you have any old pics to share that show the differences that "used to be".

My distichums (two clones from Chen Yi) never have more than one whorl of leaves, consistent with the Flora of China description.  Also consistent with FOC is the many small, regularly attached leaves (bracts?) on the main stalk above the leaf whorl for distichum, not present in tsingtauense. 
     
Much like the dimorphic leaves of L. rosthornii, there are no intermediary form leaves.

- buds are quite round in cross-section compared to the strongly trinagular form of tsingtauense.  Flowers always in a nodding position, even the topmost flower or if there is only a single floret. Pedicels uniform. (second pic, L. tsingtauense buds)
     

Whether or not everything I have said here thus far is true, clearly, none of your pics have any of these characteristics.   I don't see how they could be L. distichum.  If you dig distichum bulbs, all or most of the scales should be articulate.  Tsingtauense bulbs do not have articulate scales.  I haven't noticed any articulate scales in hybrids, either.

  I am not sure anyone in the USA has a real L. tsingtauense.   In my search over the years, I have several different clones that claim to be, but aren't.  From seed, too.  I confess that the pic above alluded to as tsingtauense is not, but shows the correct triangular buds.  I grew it from supposed tsingtauense seed, and it was so promising with that first flower opening in correct positioning, but alas, as subsequent flowers opened, the nodding became apparent.
 

And another runner-up, different again, but I'm not totally convinced yet.


From what I can tell, Darm's seem to be right:
 https://groups.io/g/lilium/message/830

To complicate things more, I have some tissue culture tsingtauense from Matthias.  Not at all mature, but unlike any seedling ones I have ever grown.  they are the three on the left (2 clones), and unlike any martagon section species I've ever seen.  The mystery continues..... and I am anxious to see what they really are!  (right-rear is tissue culture L. distichum).


 
So I have no doubt that there are swarms of natural hybrids in the wild, as the most common tsingtauense imposter, that has been in the trade for at least 50 years, is also a natural hybrid (and the one I put in the 2021 Lily auction).    I find that these hybrids cross quite easily among themselves, and I have many of my own.  BTW, they are all delightfully tasty (but time consuming to clean!).

Thanks Jane and Marc, I do like the species here.  When I was a kid, I transplanted them from the woods to our natural forested yard among the oak root flares.  Some were already volunteered there, too.  I got Mom to ask Dad not to mow them over.  (Anything over 6 inches harbored mosquitoes, he used to say.)  Along with Solomon's seal and Uvularia grandiflora, they made nice little tree collars. The Mayflowers (Thalictrum thalictroides) and Anemone quinquefolia survived without care in our lawn (as did many other wildflowers).

I am very familiar with our wild species here in Minnesota, and your pic, Jane, shows plants with a much more upright than ours, right up through the inflorescence.  Is this a regular trait of the western subspecies compared to the eastern?

Triosteum pinnatiidum

Sometimes you can cheat to get a black background when there isn't any.  Use a flash when all background as far away, or take a photo with the subject in bright sun with the background in the shade.  Like this one.  A little photoshopping, and the background could be completely black.

Thanks, Martin.  That was exactly my worry: that members would be excluded from conversations because they weren't part of a certain group.  I am very glad that this is not the case.

Some questions regarding regional groups that may cause consternation:

1) Does this mean there can be multiple threads on the same topic, but in different regional groups?

2) Does this mean members could choose to follow only their own group's conversations, and not see any other groups' threads?

I do grow a lot of natives, among many many other things.  A mix of everything and it doesn't necessarily have to be beauteous - just interesting; diversity breeds diversity, in plants, insects, animals, soil flora, fungi .... it's a wonderful thing. 

Nevertheless, I don't knock the current bee frenzy.  It's a gateway to learning ecosystems and how nature works in general.  For some, "bees" are as far as they will go (better than not at all); for others, it will spark further intrigue for nature that is everywhere in our surroundings.

Some people use vermiculite.

Mostly, my seed starting mix starts with a good potting soil (with or without peat) and amended with perlite and/or grit to get the "right" consistency.  The potting soil is pasteurized, but other than that, I don't bother about sterility; I use dirty pots and even mix with old soil.  Damping off happens in perhaps one out of twenty seed lots, and I learn which to be careful of.  I grow a lot of alpines, and Townsendia spp. are one of them.  Rather than planting the seed in the soil, my fix is to plant the seed in a bed of #1 grit that is layered over the growing media.  Seedlings need to be bagged longer while they get a sufficient root-hold in the soil below, but it works like a charm for me.