PBS Forum

Hi.

Jane Mcgary inquired after Sternbergia vernalis/ fischeriana, yes, it is the name with priority if I'm not mistaken. 

Carlos

Hi, I am in contact with Dmitri (Dima), I will ask him. He sent me three candidissimum in 2022, but the did not like my mild winter and they are now in Holland.

Carlos

Sternbergia vernalis



Narcissus munozii-garmendiae, early strain from Extremadura, Spain



Over three months with no rain and it's the rainy season, or it used to be. 

Carlos J

Hi

I tried A. rechingeri from Crete. I sowed in autumn and one seed germinated the following autumn, and two more a year after. So don't throw them away.

I also tried A. europaeum and got nothing...

I have not tried South African species.

Carlos

Hi, Lee, I have looked for observations in habitat and yes, weather seems ALWAYS overcast during flowering.

I was right about the seeds, they germinate in the cooler yet rather dry months, they are amazing:

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/115680275

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/115680213

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/115678963

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/95603580

It seems that an amount of 10-12 mm is enough to keep the soil surface moist for the radicle to emerge. Then in December to April the higher rainfall allows the root to grow deeper. 

Evolution and life on planet Earth as just amazing.


Carlos

ps: I might (just "might") get seeds or small bulbs of Ismene amancaes next year...

Hi again

I found an article in Spanish about the reproductive cycle of Ismene amancaes. The flowers begin to differentiate inside the bulb in December-January (leafless bulbs). The inflorescence emerges around May-June ('winter') and the seeds ripe at the end, in October-November, when the plants are still in leaf.

I found a website where it is stated that the seeds germinate while still on the plant and fall to the ground with a root. The article did not focus on germination and early development of seedlings, but this must take place when the rainfall is higher, see more comments below.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262436809_Desarrollo_reproductivo_del_amancay_Ismene_amancaes_Amaryllidaceae_en_su_ambiente_natural

But I looked for a climogram for Lima and the maximum rainfall is from December to March ('summer'). I was surprised to learn how little it rains even in the wettest month (40 mm, March). The average temperature in ° C is 19.7 to 22, with minimum of 17.4 to 20 and maximum of 23 to 25.1 (not really hot, it seems a climate I would enjoy).

When Ismene amancaes flowers and grows (according to the paper) the rainfall is of 12 mm or less (April to November) and the temperature is a bit lower, but not cold (20.5 to 18.3 in average, August being the 'coldest' month with an average of 16.5 °C, and average of minimums of 14.1, not cold at all.

https://es.climate-data.org/america-del-sur/peru/lima/lima-1014/

BUT from the paper it can be inferred that the moisture contents in the soil where the bulbs are (20 cm) does not evolve following the pattern in rainfall. Strangely, they measured the greatest values during two of  the driest months (August-September), and the lowest during the rainier ones.

So Ismene amancaes is a 'winter' grower climatologically and geographically speaking, but for most collectors it should be treated like a tropical, summer growing plant. It is leafless but not really dormant when the highest rainfall takes place, and it should be at this time that new seedlings establish.

I still don't know how to get any bulbs, but I learned a lot. I might search for climatic data for the Paramongaia higher up in the Andes.

Carlos

Hi, Uli, i moved them to a more sunny spot. I think that if it keeps getting over 15 during the day they will be fine.

Regarding what I wrote, it is a bit nonsense to speak about 'summer' and 'winter' in an area which is so close to the equator. It is always hot at low elevation and always cool to cold at high places, the difference is when the rainy season begins.

In Brazil or at least in Bahia state the rains begin in November until April, I think that pattern is the most common until you reach Central America and parts or even most of Mexico, where it rains from May to November, no matter if it's a cold or hot place (cloud forests have a certain degree of self-generated moisture due to fog).

To sum up, I think that coastal Paramongaia are expected to grow in hot conditions and the Andean ones in cool/cold conditions. But do they get rain during the same months in the wild? If so, the reproductive isolation would not be so hermetic...

And yes, I checked and Ismene has a pseudostem and different, fleshy and recalcitrant seeds.

Carlos

Hi. There is a guy in Santiago de Chile who claims to have summer growing clones. He is looking for Ismene amancaes and as I can't offer it he didn't bother in keep messaging me.

Just in case wants to try, he calls himself 'Tom Jones' on Facebook, the avatar is a bunch of white flowers which seem Crocus but I am not sure.

As for the winter growing clones, I have three, two from seeds got by a friend from New Zealand, I think, and one from a German grower. If I have them indoors it's too hot, if I leave them outside, we are getting 8°C now at dawn, up to 19°C during the day and they seem OK, but we will eventually get around 4-5 degrees C, I guess this is too low, right?

Carlos

Pd: what if the summer growing P. weberbaueri are just Ismene amancaes? Are they easy to tell apart? Has anyone done any molecular analysis of both forms?

First seedlings!

Squilla hesperia from Tenerife 
(Ex Urginea, Drimia). Many still available.



Urginea fugax, Ibiza



And Oncocyclus soaking. These were cut last night



Carlos

More Crocus serotinus (as things are now). This is part of my research but it's not really something I found myself: it grows not only on sandy places by the sea, also on acid forest soil ruch in humus, mainly cork oak forests.

First photo in habitat in Odemira, Algarve. 



Carlos

It doesn't matter, do you know which ones they were? And do you have all other Crocus identified? We can sort them out by looking at the bulbs, flowers and leaves...

Carlos

Hi.Crocus in northern Alicante province, Spain, at the foot of the Sierra Mariola.Not sure about how it should be called because Flora Iberica treated all similar plants as C. serotinus but this name has been 'fixed' for the plants with reticulated fibers growing in acid sandy soils and slate on the Atlantic basin, so only Crocus salzmannii is left. Rukšans and Mathew seemed to agree on this.

Carlos



And two pics of what from now on has to be called Crocus serotinus.

Hi, after being sent a paper which changes many things on Crocus nomenclature here, I started some research.

I am looking for any of these numbers for purchase or exchange, specially the first one:

JJA352.099 : CROCUS SEROTINUS subsp. SALZMANNII Spain, Granada, Sierra Nevada below Peñones de San Francisco, 2300m. Turf in NW-facing depression. (A strongly stoloniferous race from alpine-turf. We came across it in 1970 but, other than recording its existence, no-one has thought it worth distinguishing. We have not seen any other quite like it but the C. serotinus group is more than a little complicated. Small corms with long, couch-grass-like stolons. Profuse, pale lilac flowers in autumn.)

JJA352.003 : CROCUS SEROTINUS subsp. SALZMANNII Morocco, Mischliffen = ABS4350

JJA352.004 : CROCUS SEROTINUS subsp. SALZMANNII Morocco, Ksar el Ksiba = ABS4411

JJA352.005 : CROCUS SEROTINUS subsp. SALZMANNII Morocco, Larache. Ex M.Salmon & M.Fillan = SF242.

I am gathering plants from my area and having others sent from Portugal. I might get seeds on them and I will have local salzmannii available, maybe also nevadense.

Thanks

Carlos

Congratulations!! I got three bulbs and they refuse to sprout, they might have been killed by the extreme heat of last summer, I should have unpotted them.

Carlos

I think that small form has been called Sternbergia minoica. All this "lutea complex" should be studied with a molecular approach. 

Carlos