Erythronium sibiricum seeds

[Diane Whitehead]

I just discovered a packet of Erythronium sibiricum seeds from the Scottish Rock Garden Club.  I am astounded that I didn't get them sown the minute they arrived, as this is a species I don't have and I was delighted they were being offered this year.

I decided to soak them a bit before sowing them.  After a few hours, it looks as though they have germinated already, but the white bits must be the elaiosomes which appeal to ants.  I wonder where they've been hiding.  They certainly weren't noticeable on the small dark brown seeds in the packet.

Well, I think I'll sow them with the eliasomes, unlike what happens in nature when the ants bite them off to feed their babies.

Most Erythronium seeds are very reluctant to sprout for me, except for E. revolutum which has produced hundreds of plants from my one original plant.  I sure hope sibiricum grows.

[David Pilling]

Erythronium, dogs tooth violet, aren't they the ones that try to escape through the bottom of the pot - seem to recall Ian Young talking about that. I never got them to flower from seed.

I've yet to see video of some of the things ants are supposed to do, like transporting seed.

[Diane Whitehead]

No video - I'm usually too busy defending the seeds I'm gathering from the voracious ants.

Maybe you have  different ants.  We also have giant carpenter ants bent on eating the wooden frames of our houses.

[MarcR]

Diane,

most Erythronium seed needs repeated cycles of 90 days alternating between 32 and 70 F starting with a cold cycle.  I alternate between refrigerator and room temperature. Germination usually begins in the third through fifth cycles, and can continue through as many as ten cycles. [this is unnecessary with fresh seed]

[David Pilling]

There's a lot of information on the PBS wiki:

https://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Erythronium

Including a link to Ian Young on sowing seed:

http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2015Jan141421233053BULB_LOG_0215.pdf

[Jan Jeddeloh]

I found this scholarly article about E. japonicum seed germination. Since japonicum is closely related to sibiricum the methods it suggests seem like a good place to start.
 https://bsapubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.3732/ajb.89.11.1779

So for the dens canis tribe it appears you don't want to start with cold as Mark suggests but rather with a warm moist period.  This would more closely match what they get in the wild.  I actually tried this using the paper towel method on one dens canis type (can't remember the exact species) and got germination but was not ultimately successful in growing on, partly because I wasn't in sync with the seasons.  

Here's the abstract of the article which gives you most of the nitty gritty.

Erythronium japonicum (Liliaceae) (Japanese name, katakuri) is indigenous to Japan and adjacent Far East regions. We examined their embryo elongation, germination, and seedling emergence in relationship to the temperature. In incubators, seeds did not germinate at 20°/10° (light 12 h/dark 12 h alternating temperature), 20°, 15°, 5°, or 0°C with a 12-h light photoperiod for 200 d. They germinated at 15°/5° or 10°C, starting on day 135. If seeds were kept at 20° or at 25°/15°C before being exposed to 5°C, the seeds germinated, but if kept at 25° or 30°C they did not. Embryos at 25°/15°C grew to half the seed length without germinating; at 0° or 5°C, embryos elongated little. Embryos grew and seeds germinated when kept at 25°/15°C for 90 d and then at 5°C. In the field, seeds are dispersed in mid-June in Hokkaido and in Honshu, mid-May to mid-June. Seeds do not germinate immediately after dispersal because the embryo is underdeveloped. Embryos elongated at medium temperatures in autumn after summer heat, and germination ends in November at 8°/0°C. After germination, seedling emergence was delayed, and most seedlings were observed in early April around the snowmelt when soil cover was 2–3 mm.

[Diane Whitehead]

I'm glad they tried all those variables and found the seeds prefer the temperatures inside my house.  That'll be easy for me.