This discussion started of with suggestions of breeding. We found within the old concept of Ornithogalum that it was difficult to make hybrids unless one resorted to embryo rescue. Even within the new Eliokarmos one could not make hybrids between thyrasoides and dubium unless one used embryo rescue. With regards the discussion below, Remember that much of the molecular genetics is only based on one or a few genes (I am not sure of the situation here) and the cladograms displayed are only one of many possibilities. Harold