Fri, 11 Apr 2003 08:30:24 PDT
Hamish, Harry and all,

where I come from, which is incidentaly in Bucks, we say Bek-ons-field, not
Bee-kons-field, don't know why, it could have been the dialect.  Shows how
pronounciations change from only one region to the other.(or pub, for that
matter)  I've known quite a few "clives" in my life, but none pronounced it
with a short  "i".   Which doesn't mean it's not possible. Hamish pointed
that out.  Is this the same "Clive" of SA fame?  I once heard a story that
the plant was named after a Lady Clive, not her husband.  Also, on the
origin of the word "cliff", the germanic is klippe, which throws another
tidbit in.  I've noticed the replacement of  v-f-p in a number of words.  In
old germanic, their is a script form whereby the individual letters are all
but undecipherable to the uninitiated!  This is another possible source of
spelling changes.  Language is fascinating!  And fluid.

You should hear how germans try to say my name, there is no hard "j" in
german. This is exactly my point, there is no international pronounciation.
Spelling is less of a problem, although there are many exceptions.  In
Europe we have many cities with three names or more, historical left overs.
I makes it difficult for the uninitiated, but no one takes offense at a
different pronounciation, and why should they, as long as clarity is
maintained.  Aix en Chapelle is Aachen is Aken.  Liege is Luttich is Luik.

I really don't see why some people are in such a huff!  Has the current
world climate damaged our humour?and Harry Dewey, friend, you are way off
base, here.  There was no insult to anyone intended, so please do not read
between lines for something that does not exist!  I realise you do not know
me, but such devises do not belong to my character. I would like to know
more about the individuals that are being honoured, as well as try to retain
clarity in speaking, but  not acknowleding different understandings of
pronounciation is simply ignorant!  And using it to belittle a fellow
gardener would be more than childish.  I think we agree on this.

At the risk of more hate mail, I would still like to hear other opinions and
experiences.  I've already learned more from Hamish, which was the idea.
Alberto has shared the pronounciation he learned, which is different from
mine, which stems from my years at University of San Francisco.  We should
stay on topic, though, not too much extrapolation from historic languages.
Bulbs, bulbs, relate it to bulbs.


Jamie V.
Cologne -Köln-Keule-Kölle
actually it's Colonia Claudia Ara Agrippinensum, but come on, that's a

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