Allium Hybrids

Jan v/d Berg
Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:17:45 PST
Indeed most of the  Allim Hybrids are sterile.
That are crossings with Allium macrleanii and christophii( Globemaster)
and aflatunense with mecleanii ( Lucy Ball and Gladiator)
I think for a successfull crossing with this type, you have toe cross
between Allium Purpel Sensation, Allium
Aflatunense, Allium mecleanii and Allium cristophii (same as Allim
albopilosum) and Allium Karataviense.
These Allium you can cross wiht each other.
To Mark I will say that i like his Allium flavum types very much.
I never saw such coulourfull types of Allium flavum before.
I missed the article in IBS Bulbs. can you send it me?
Jan van den Berg

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:58:11 EST
Subject: Re: [pbs] Allium hybrids
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

"Jamie" wrote:

>Although I've tried with the few "ball" type
>Alliums, such as A. giganteum, A. jesdianum,
>A. christoffii, A. schubertii and their possible
>hybrids (Lucille Ball, Globemaster, hollandicum,
>etc), I've never managed to set seed through
>intrageneric pollination. I've found all the named
>cultivars I have to be sterile.  Of course, this is
>a limited group!

>I remember a wonderful article in the IBS BULBS
>on A. flavum cultivars.

That was my article entitled "The rainbow color genesis of Allium flavum
tauricum" that appeared in IBS BULBS earlier this year.

>Is anyone working with Allium?

I have selected a good number of Allium hybrids, mostly of the rhizomatous
types.  I have also been selecting color forms of Allium flavum ssp.
for quite a while, resulting in the huge color range which was the subject
of my
aforementioned article.  While the "big ball" type of allium (section
Melanocrommyum) are interesting and showy, they are actually not as useful
in the
garden as those species that grow all season long with handsome foliage
such as the Rhizirideum section of the genus (those with bulbs attached to
rhizomes).  There is tremendous untapped potential in developing superior
of summer/fall growing alliums.  I have previously posted a number of Allium
hybrid pictures to the PBS wiki.

Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States "New England" USDA Zone 5
>> web site under construction - <<
alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western
american alpines, iris, plants of all types!


Message: 7
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:03:37 -0800
From: "Michael Mace" <>
Subject: [pbs] Re: Too many Amaryllis photos
To: <>
Message-ID: <000c01c3a9a3$80531dc0$8c0b510c@d1fqn01>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

John I. asked:

>Are you doing any crosses with them back onto Brunsvigia spp.?  These are
what I would be interested in seeing more
>and more of.

I'd make the crosses if I had any blooming-size Brunsvigias.  Unfortunately,
I can't afford to send 85 pounds plus postage to Paul Christian to get some
;-)  So I'll have to wait another 10 years for the seedlings I'm growing.

In the meantime, my Brunsvigia crossing experience has been limited to
making a bunch of crosses with some B. josephinae pollen sent me last year.
Several of those crosses produced intriguing little white seeds that were
already sprouting in the pod.  I'm told that's a very good sign.  We'll see
what happens.

If anyone wants to trade pollen of amaryllids, let me know privately.

I have also been trying some crosses with various Nerine sarniensis
cultivars.  Very little success so far, although I may have achieved a few
using the Nerine as the seed parent.  Won't know until they bloom.

What I'm trying for is something that combines the red of N. sarniensis with
the size and durability of Amaryllis.

San Jose, CA (zone 9, min temp 20F)


Message: 8
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:51:05 -0800
From: Mary Sue Ittner <>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Oxalis--TOW
To: Pacific Bulb Society <>
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Dear All,

I am enjoying all the participation in the topic of the week and appreciate
Robin's moderating as well. One of the things that frustrates me about this
genus is all the host of names that people mention. I always want to know
where that plant comes from, what kind of soils is it found in, when does
it get rainfall in nature, and when does it bloom.

I remembered that earlier on the Oxalis group that David Victor told about
a checklist to solve that problem.
"The author is Richard Clifton, who is the Editor for the
Geraniaceae  Group.  The checklist was produced three years ago and was
based on a review of the Index Kewensis, Salter's monograph of South
African Oxalis and various flora.  It covers the naming of virtually all
species of Oxalis and their authorities and limited descriptive
material.  There is also a wide critique of O. corniculata.

The checklist can be obtained from Richard's home address which is 7
Crabble Road, Dover, Kent, England, CT17 0QD. He is not on e-mail.

The checklist cost 15 UK pounds.  Post and packing is in addition and will
cost two pounds for surface mail and more for air mail.  Richard cannot
accept credit cards. Cheques are a problem because of exchange costs,
unless purchased locally and drawn on a correspondent UK bank.  Probably
cash is best. "

Andrew Broome found this resource as a way to obtain it:…

Does this checklist tell where each of the species is from or time of
bloom? I've looked at the Kew list before when I have been puzzled about a
name and often all that was listed was the name of the plant and the
authority and I am afraid I wanted more information than that.

For instance I was curious about the origin of the plant that Lauw and Uli
were talking about. It isn't in any of my references but I found in one of
my saved references that Oxalis crassipes was a plant from Argentina that
had become popular in the Gulf south of the USA where it bloomed in spring
and sometimes again in fall.

One thing that strikes me is that a lot of people are not growing Oxalis in
the mix you usually hear associated with it. I looked up what I could find
from Micael Vassar and found this:

"The potting mix for Oxalis depends on what kind of Oxalis you are
planting. I find that the winter growing species from the Western Cape area
of South Africa (now correctly the Southern Cape I think) all do best
planted in a very poor mix with little or no organic material. In
habitat they almost all grow in pure decomposed sandstone. For these winter
growing species I use 50% agricultural pumice, 40% washed builder's sand
and 10% leaf mould (or less). A mix of pumice and washed builder's sand
would be adequate without any organics at all. I fertilize with a 15-30-15
fertilizer at 1/4 strength about once a month. I don't like perlite because
of the dust and because it floats to the top in a planting mix.

The summer growing African species need a richer mix and can have up to 25%
organic material. They tend to have a longer growing season (some are even

Oxalis species from Central America and Mexico (mostly rhizomatous) are
mostly evergreen and also do best in a richer planting mix.

I plant all bulbs one inch (2.5cm) deep. Bulbs adjust themselves in the
planting mix to the correct depth. It is impossible to distinguish the top
from the bottom of some Oxalis bulbs so plant them sideways-always works

I find that Oxalis grow, flower, and produce replacement bulbs better if
grown on the hard side."
As I read on I found the following note from Will Ashburner:
"I do the opposite to Mike with regards planting mix.  Mine is totally
organic (shredded composted pine bark and coco peat)with an air fill
porosity of 20% and full range of nutrients.

They multiply like rabbits and flower etc.  I have never seen them in the
wild so they may be out of character and too lush, but ignorance is bliss."

It sounds like Oxalis are very flexible.

Mary Sue

Mary Sue Ittner
California's North Coast
Wet mild winters with occasional frost
Dry mild summers


Message: 9
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:01:36 -0000
From: "David Fenwick" <>
Subject: [pbs] Amaryllis with Nerine + Sanders Nursery
To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <>
Message-ID: <000901c3a9bc$5c66e9a0$7e89eb50@davidfen>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Michael and all,

>>>>>I have also been trying some crosses with various Nerine sarniensis
cultivars.  Very little success so far, although I may have achieved a few
using the Nerine as the seed parent.  Won't know until they bloom.

The same has happened here this year but with Nerine bowdenii 'E. B.
Anderson'. The seeds look good but I'll have to see if they'll germinate.

Does anyone know anything about Sanders and Sons Nursery ?

Presumably an old UK nursery, and one that was going at the turn of the
previous century, around the 1900s. I've just received an Amaryllis
belladonna 'Sanders Form' with provenance dating back to 1906, and to this
nursery, so obviously I'd like to find out a little more about them.

Best Wishes,

David Fenwick
NCCPG National Plant Heritage Collections of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and
The African Garden
96 Wasdale Gardens


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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:36:38 +1100
From: Robert Hamilton <>
Subject: [pbs] Triteleia lemmonae
To: Pacific Society <>
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=US-ASCII;	format=flowed

Hi all,

I  have  just  posted  some  images  of  Triteleia  lemmonae  to the
wiki . It  is  flowering in my garden  at  present.  I raised it  from
seed  purchased  from   Southwest Native  Seeds  and  have  grown it
for  a  number  of  years  , always  in a  pot until I  put  some  in a
  new  raised be  I constructed   last  summer. The  "in ground"  plants
  are  flowering later  than those in pots but  are looking  much
better and  are featured  in  the  images.

Mary  Sue  wrote the  following  about T  lemmonae in her  very
comprehensive  article.
"Triteleia lemmonae is a species that is endemic to Arizona where it
in sparse pine woodland at elevations between 5000 and 7000 feet
meters). It has bright yellow flowers fading purplish with
One of the  images  illustrates  the  "arrowheads."…


Rob in TasmaniaFrom  Thu Nov 13 11:07:28 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:06:45 +0100
Subject: Re: [pbs] Oxalis--TOW
From: Lauw de Jager <>
To: Pacific Bulb Society <>
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Andrew and all,
 Oxalis polyphylla var heptaphylla came here via Mary Sue from Michel Vassar
and is just about to flower. It has  palmate ( or digital ?) leaves with
very fine lobes.  There are other Oxalis  with equally  deorative leaves
like the O palmifrons (still waiting to see the flowers  but very decorative
leaves) O flava  (including a pink form with only two very wide lobes).

   Four years ago  you gave me a yellow Oxalis, which after a few years
sulking in its new environment is now doing well and is  flowering now with
dainty small yellow flowers. Temperorary it was identified as being O lobata
but I am not very sure of it.  Your picture of this plant is in our website. Can you confirm that it the correct name now?

Kin regards

Lauw de Jager

South of France (zone 8 Olivier)


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