From msittner@mcn.org Sat Nov 1 10:57:38 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031101075303.00d00660@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Problems Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 07:56:12 -0800 Dear All, There appears to be a problem with the wiki that prevents any of us from viewing any of the files that are loaded there. I have written about it and will advise you when the problem is resolved. In the meantime you can look at the pages and read information, but you cannot see any of the pictures or read the article by Stan Farwig. And I doubt you'll be able to load files either. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From msittner@mcn.org Sat Nov 1 12:56:51 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031101095433.00cec160@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki file problem resolved Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 09:55:24 -0800 Hi all, We can again access the wiki files as permission has been granted. Mary Sue From voltaire@islandnet.com Sat Nov 1 13:02:41 2003 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Wiki Problems Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:02:39 -0800 Dear Mary Sue, The problem must be fixed. I just clicked on this url from your Sep 27 message 'Wiki links', http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Colchicum and then clicked on the links for the pictures and they work fine. Then I used the new table of genera mentioned in your Oct 28 message 'Wiki Improvements' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/PhotographsAndInformation I clicked on 'Colchicum', which took me to the same page as above, and saw the pictures. Diane Whitehead From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat Nov 1 13:07:29 2003 Message-Id: <3FA3F65F.7020502@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Wiki Problems Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:07:27 -0500 Still can't upload any images. Arnold From mark@marksgardenplants.com Sat Nov 1 15:06:45 2003 Message-Id: <008301c3a0b3$b380d1e0$fed59851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: bulbs for year round interest Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:06:55 -0000 hi all Over the winter months I'm planning to convert 5 large plastic troughs into tufa troughs. My plan is to have small bulbs only and have something in flower all year. Each trough will have for example two small Tulips species I just cant think of bulbs to buy other than spring bulbs and Colchicums. What do you suggest? The troughs will be in full sun. Mark N Ireland zone 8 From puppincuff@cox.net Sat Nov 1 15:23:02 2003 Message-Id: <001f01c3a0b6$69fa28c0$738e0544@oc.cox.net> From: "puppincuff" Subject: bulbs for year round interest Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 12:26:21 -0800 Mark, I would try Ipheion, Anemone spp., Nerine, Cyclamen, dwarf Narcissi, and Alstroemeria (although this last might fill the trough with roots too quickly) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Smyth" To: "pbs" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 12:06 PM Subject: [pbs] bulbs for year round interest hi all Over the winter months I'm planning to convert 5 large plastic troughs into tufa troughs. My plan is to have small bulbs only and have something in flower all year. Each trough will have for example two small Tulips species I just cant think of bulbs to buy other than spring bulbs and Colchicums. What do you suggest? The troughs will be in full sun. Mark N Ireland zone 8 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From mark@marksgardenplants.com Sat Nov 1 17:25:57 2003 Message-Id: <008b01c3a0c7$2c509340$fed59851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: bulbs for year round interest Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 22:26:18 -0000 Puppin I never thought of Cyclamen. Thanks. Nerines are too big for my troughs which will be 2x1 feet approximately. Mark Norn Iron zone 8 ----- Original Message ----- From: "puppincuff" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] bulbs for year round interest > Mark, > I would try Ipheion, Anemone spp., Nerine, Cyclamen, dwarf Narcissi, and > Alstroemeria (although this last might fill the trough with roots too > quickly) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Smyth" > To: "pbs" > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 12:06 PM > Subject: [pbs] bulbs for year round interest > > > hi all > > Over the winter months I'm planning to convert 5 large plastic troughs into > tufa troughs. My plan is to have small bulbs only and have something in > flower all year. Each trough will have for example two small Tulips species > > I just cant think of bulbs to buy other than spring bulbs and Colchicums. > What do you suggest? The troughs will be in full sun. > > Mark > N Ireland > zone 8 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat Nov 1 18:27:44 2003 Message-Id: <3FA44170.7020108@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: bulbs for year round interest Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 18:27:44 -0500 Mark: Galanthus, crocus, allium. Arnold From jshields104@insightbb.com Sat Nov 1 18:31:54 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031101182901.027c22b0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: bulbs for year round interest Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 18:31:53 -0500 Mark, I would suggest Nerine filifolia, N. filamentosa, and N. angulata for your troughs. They can do a fair imitation of being evergreen, and N. platypetala grows in permanent bog or marsh spots. N. filifolia blooms in August, filamentosa in September, and angulata has one bloom showing in my rock garden -- where it was plants this past summer. Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana At 10:26 PM 11/1/2003 +0000, you wrote: >Puppin I never thought of Cyclamen. Thanks. Nerines are too big for my >troughs which will be 2x1 feet approximately. > >Mark >Norn Iron >zone 8 > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "puppincuff" >To: "Pacific Bulb Society" >Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 8:26 PM >Subject: Re: [pbs] bulbs for year round interest > > > > Mark, > > I would try Ipheion, Anemone spp., Nerine, Cyclamen, dwarf Narcissi, and > > Alstroemeria (although this last might fill the trough with roots too > > quickly) > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mark Smyth" > > To: "pbs" > > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 12:06 PM > > Subject: [pbs] bulbs for year round interest > > > > > > hi all > > > > Over the winter months I'm planning to convert 5 large plastic troughs >into > > tufa troughs. My plan is to have small bulbs only and have something in > > flower all year. Each trough will have for example two small Tulips >species > > > > I just cant think of bulbs to buy other than spring bulbs and Colchicums. > > What do you suggest? The troughs will be in full sun. > > > > Mark > > N Ireland > > zone 8 > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Nov 1 20:21:29 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031101164058.00b6fce8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Scilla peruviana Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 16:43:12 -0800 I just noticed a passing mention, in an old issue of the AGS Bulletin, of "a delightful dwarf form of Scilla peruviana, var. gattefossei." Does anyone grow this variety, which apparently came from Morocco? A dwarf S. peruviana would be a better pot subject than the typical form, which, as was mentioned in the recent discussion, soon outgrows a modest pot. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From mark@marksgardenplants.com Sat Nov 1 20:03:11 2003 Message-Id: <009f01c3a0dd$2439cc10$fed59851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: bulbs for year round interest Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 01:03:34 -0000 hi Jim are you sure these Nerines are hardy? I always thought they were heated greenhouse bulbs. If they can stay outside I'll add them to my list. thanks Mark N Ireland zone 8 > Mark, > > I would suggest Nerine filifolia, N. filamentosa, and N. angulata for your > troughs. They can do a fair imitation of being evergreen, and N. > platypetala grows in permanent bog or marsh spots. > > N. filifolia blooms in August, filamentosa in September, and angulata has > one bloom showing in my rock garden -- where it was plants this past summer. > > Regards, > Jim Shields > in central Indiana > > At 10:26 PM 11/1/2003 +0000, you wrote: > >Puppin I never thought of Cyclamen. Thanks. Nerines are too big for my > >troughs which will be 2x1 feet approximately. > > > >Mark > >Norn Iron > >zone 8 > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "puppincuff" > >To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > >Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 8:26 PM > >Subject: Re: [pbs] bulbs for year round interest > > > > > > > Mark, > > > I would try Ipheion, Anemone spp., Nerine, Cyclamen, dwarf Narcissi, and > > > Alstroemeria (although this last might fill the trough with roots too > > > quickly) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Mark Smyth" > > > To: "pbs" > > > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 12:06 PM > > > Subject: [pbs] bulbs for year round interest > > > > > > > > > hi all > > > > > > Over the winter months I'm planning to convert 5 large plastic troughs > >into > > > tufa troughs. My plan is to have small bulbs only and have something in > > > flower all year. Each trough will have for example two small Tulips > >species > > > > > > I just cant think of bulbs to buy other than spring bulbs and Colchicums. > > > What do you suggest? The troughs will be in full sun. > > > > > > Mark > > > N Ireland > > > zone 8 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >pbs mailing list > >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From mark@marksgardenplants.com Sat Nov 1 20:05:26 2003 Message-Id: <00b301c3a0dd$72f39b10$fed59851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: bulbs for year round interest Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 01:05:46 -0000 I suppose I should have said that I already have Galanthus for fall and spring and about 10 small Colchicums Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.E. Shields" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] bulbs for year round interest > Mark, > > I would suggest Nerine filifolia, N. filamentosa, and N. angulata for your > troughs. They can do a fair imitation of being evergreen, and N. > platypetala grows in permanent bog or marsh spots. > > N. filifolia blooms in August, filamentosa in September, and angulata has > one bloom showing in my rock garden -- where it was plants this past summer. > > Regards, > Jim Shields > in central Indiana > > At 10:26 PM 11/1/2003 +0000, you wrote: > >Puppin I never thought of Cyclamen. Thanks. Nerines are too big for my > >troughs which will be 2x1 feet approximately. > > > >Mark > >Norn Iron > >zone 8 > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "puppincuff" > >To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > >Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 8:26 PM > >Subject: Re: [pbs] bulbs for year round interest > > > > > > > Mark, > > > I would try Ipheion, Anemone spp., Nerine, Cyclamen, dwarf Narcissi, and > > > Alstroemeria (although this last might fill the trough with roots too > > > quickly) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Mark Smyth" > > > To: "pbs" > > > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 12:06 PM > > > Subject: [pbs] bulbs for year round interest > > > > > > > > > hi all > > > > > > Over the winter months I'm planning to convert 5 large plastic troughs > >into > > > tufa troughs. My plan is to have small bulbs only and have something in > > > flower all year. Each trough will have for example two small Tulips > >species > > > > > > I just cant think of bulbs to buy other than spring bulbs and Colchicums. > > > What do you suggest? The troughs will be in full sun. > > > > > > Mark > > > N Ireland > > > zone 8 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >pbs mailing list > >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From julian_slade@bigpond.com Sat Nov 1 20:08:38 2003 Message-Id: <020a01c1558b$c33c5250$5c898b90@mdcurfkx8oat132> From: Julian Slade Subject: Daubenya help Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 01:08:39 -0000 Dear Mary Sue, Peter Peter's Daubenya is D. marginata. Of its many names under which it was previously known, Massonia (or Neobakeria) angustifolia was most frequently used. (The real Massonia angustifolia is actually M. echinata.) Regards Julian Slade From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Sat Nov 1 20:17:45 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20031102121800.00a78200@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: bulbs for year round interest Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 12:18:00 +1100 At 01:03 2/11/03 -0000, you wrote: >hi Jim > >are you sure these Nerines are hardy? I always thought they were heated >greenhouse bulbs. If they can stay outside I'll add them to my list. > Mark, I don't know whether you still have my master list, but if you do then check out which Nerines I have. All of mine are grown outside without any protection and they do OK here down to -8'C without major problems. The species I have always found are less problematic to the hybrids, but I have rarely lost any nerine as yet. Species (or related) which I grow here outside (predominantly in small pots which tends to amplify the cold as well...) are filifolia, filamentosa, angulata (a favourite... brilliant flowering every year, even when divided), masoniorum, humilis, undulata, bowdenii, krigei, pudica, fothergillii major and minor, flexuosa alba and umtata. Also about 15 hybrids or named varieties at this this stage as well. Best flowering of the species I'd have to say is angulata, and once settled in filifolia is brilliant as well. I've only had undulata flower once from seed, but I think it'll be another that flowers very well which has smaller flowers on very tall thin stems which I think could look quite effective in troughs. N. masoniorum one well established flowers very nicely as well, and I think it's tiny flowers shouldd look great in that situation as well. I tend to get seed of these most years now so if you are missing any of these let me know. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From jshields104@insightbb.com Sun Nov 2 08:35:16 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031102083017.00b023f8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: bulbs for year round interest Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 08:35:14 -0500 Mark, I have had a few Nerine bowdenii winter over outdoors in the field, under heavy mulch. Most hawever died, and none bloomed. I am currently testing NN. angulata, krigei, 'Pink Triumph', and [filifolia X krigei] outdoors in the rock garden. Will be able to say more about their hardiness next year. I also have small seedlings of NN. [bowdenii wellsii X krigei] and [filifolia X bowdenii wellsii] growing on in pots. Some of those might turn out to be hardy too. I am in USDA cold hardiness zone 5, where the coldest winter temperatures can reach -20 F (-28 C). Jim Shbields in central Indiana (USA) At 01:03 AM 11/2/2003 +0000, you wrote: >hi Jim > >are you sure these Nerines are hardy? I always thought they were heated >greenhouse bulbs. If they can stay outside I'll add them to my list. > >thanks > >Mark >N Ireland >zone 8 > > > > Mark, > > > > I would suggest Nerine filifolia, N. filamentosa, and N. angulata for your > > troughs. They can do a fair imitation of being evergreen, and N. > > platypetala grows in permanent bog or marsh spots. > > > > N. filifolia blooms in August, filamentosa in September, and angulata has > > one bloom showing in my rock garden -- where it was plants this past >summer. > > > > Regards, > > Jim Shields > > in central Indiana > > > > At 10:26 PM 11/1/2003 +0000, you wrote: > > >Puppin I never thought of Cyclamen. Thanks. Nerines are too big for my > > >troughs which will be 2x1 feet approximately. > > > > > >Mark > > >Norn Iron > > >zone 8 > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "puppincuff" > > >To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > > >Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 8:26 PM > > >Subject: Re: [pbs] bulbs for year round interest > > > > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > I would try Ipheion, Anemone spp., Nerine, Cyclamen, dwarf Narcissi, >and > > > > Alstroemeria (although this last might fill the trough with roots too > > > > quickly) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Mark Smyth" > > > > To: "pbs" > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 12:06 PM > > > > Subject: [pbs] bulbs for year round interest > > > > > > > > > > > > hi all > > > > > > > > Over the winter months I'm planning to convert 5 large plastic troughs > > >into > > > > tufa troughs. My plan is to have small bulbs only and have something >in > > > > flower all year. Each trough will have for example two small Tulips > > >species > > > > > > > > I just cant think of bulbs to buy other than spring bulbs and >Colchicums. > > > > What do you suggest? The troughs will be in full sun. > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > N Ireland > > > > zone 8 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > pbs mailing list > > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > pbs mailing list > > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >pbs mailing list > > >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > ************************************************* > > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. > > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > > Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From dells@voicenet.com Sun Nov 2 09:36:22 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 47 in the mail Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 09:36:17 -0500 Dear All, Most packages frrom BX 47 went innto the mail yesterday, Saturday. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From mark@marksgardenplants.com Sun Nov 2 11:46:11 2003 Message-Id: <007f01c3a160$e1cf08c0$58d49851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: The results of your email commands Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 16:46:36 -0000 I normally remove everything from my emails except for the email I replying to. slap on the wrist for me then. sorry everyone Mark zone 8 N Ireland From dells@voicenet.com Sun Nov 2 13:35:43 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 48 Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 13:36:24 -0500 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 48" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! SEED: From Arnold Trachtenberg: 1. Arisaema tortuosum 2. Lilium leucanthum centifolium 3. Lilium canadense var coccineum 4. Allium tuberosum 5. Lycoris longituba From Jamie Vande: 6. Tulipa urumiensis, commercial Dutch strain, open-pollinated 7. Bomarea hirtella 8. Arum maculatum, wild-collected 9. Helleborus foetidus From Angelo Porcelli: 10. Narcissus serotinus 11. Pancratium maritimum From a seed trade with the Australian Bulb Association (Limited supply): 12. Ferraria crispa ssp noterii (2 pkts) 13. Wachendorfia paniculata (2 pkts) 14. Ixia trifolia (2 pkts) 15. Allium recurvatum (3 pkts) 16. Hexaglottis sp. ? (2 pkts) 17. Hesperantha falcata (2 pkts) 18. Chasmanthe floribunda var. ducktii (2 pkt) 19. Chasmanthe floribunda (3 pkt) 20. Ferraria sp? , sand dunes 21. Dichopogon strictus (2 pkts) 22. Allium recurvatum (3 pkts) 23. Lachenalia reflexa (3 pkts) 24. Romulea hirta (2 pkts) 25. Iris siberica 'Tycoon' (2 pkts) 26. Massonia echinata (3 pkts) 27. Moraea longifolia (2 pkts) 28. Onixotis stricta (2 pkts) Thank you, Arnold, Jamie, Angelo, and the ABA and Dirk Wallace !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Nov 2 16:51:15 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031102123851.00b7c6b0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Bibliography Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 12:45:40 -0800 I have heard from my friend, the expert, on the matter of an on-line bibliography. Turns out that I need someone to program it, and he recommends that I set up my own virtual server, which is "also fun." I'm not quite ready for this, and indeed could not do the website myself because I don't have access to anything beyond a dial-up connection. However, I still think it's a good project to work on sometime, somewhere. My fall-back position is that we can include basic references to genera on the "Information" page of the wiki. This would merely involve citing a current monograph or other very useful work. For example, on the Crocus page the introduction can include citation of Brian Mathew's monograph "The Crocus" (with mention of the fact that it is out of print, and that about half a dozen new taxa have been described since its publication). The Fritillaria page can include Phillips & Rix's "Bulbs" paperback and Rix's entry in the "AGS Encyclopaedia of Alpines," and probably also mention of the "Gardener's Guide to Fritillaries" if just to steer people away from it. I'll add these references as I happen to post new pictures and notes on the wiki, and I hope others will also. Jane McGary From msittner@mcn.org Sun Nov 2 18:35:52 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031102152507.00de8490@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Note from Matt Mattus Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 15:34:20 -0800 Hi all, Enjoy these Nerines! I am new to the group. have not officially joined yet but I am receiving the e-mails,and just want to say that this looks like an excellent group to be a part of. real active subjects, and less politics than other groups!. I already know some of you (Hi to Jim S., Harold K. , Lee P., Daryl G. ,and John I.) How are you all. Attached is a photo that I took this morning of some great Nerine sarniensis hybrids. these are old Exbury hybrids. With about 75 bulbs growing, I have about 90% blooming, which has me very pleased since last year I only has 3 bloom. These have been potted for about three years. I live in Central Massachusetts, which is USDA Zone 5, where I keep many bulbs in a glass greenhouse which is approximately 30' by 23'. I have two plunge beds of S.A. bulbs, of various species a-z, as well as some bigger tubs of the larger things like Chasmanthe. All new for me this year, as I get sucked into the new interest of South African bulbs even more. You know how it goes! I have a passion for Clivia as many of you know, and for breeding Nerine sarniensis and Lachenalia, a new passion (Thanks Jim for getting me interested in these!, I now have about 25 species I think, without counting. That database discussion is starting to make more sense! in the greenhouse today the Winter Oxalis are just starting to bloom, I have over 30 species ever since seeing the lecture at the IBS Huntington symposium) with some O. hirta and O. Purpurea 'primrose" opening today in a larger clay pot where it is even bigger than last year, I am suspecting that not disturbing the bulbs during their summer rest is key. Also, I do have a mature Cryptostephanus currently in bloom, it is white, with a pale pink blush. (A gift from visiting Mr. Yoshikazu Nakamura). This is the first time that it has bloomed. Cheers to all( Mary, it this how I should send in a pic? How do I join the group, through the Web site?) Thanks warm regards Matt Mattus Worcester, MA 01607 USDA Zone 5A (5-F-10F) Note from Mary Sue: This post did not get through to the list since it had an attachment which is not allowed. I have downsized Matt's picture as I am sure many of you would like to see it and it was way too big for the wiki. And in addition since the upload file part of the wiki is still not working, I have transferred this in through ftp which only Mark M. and I can do. To see it, http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Nerine_sarn.jpg Welcome to our list Matt. If you want to join the Pacific Bulb Society and be able to participate in the BX from now through 2004 you can find an application form on our wiki and web site: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/MembershipForm7-03.htm I'll write you privately about how to use the wiki. Mary Sue From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Nov 2 22:17:59 2003 Message-Id: <3FA5C8E1.1080502@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: dahlia and cyclamen Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 22:17:53 -0500 Two flowers taken today in our unseasonably warm marathon weather. Arnold http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Dahlia_coccinea_12.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Cyclamen_hederifolium9.JPG From eagle85@flash.net Mon Nov 3 00:05:17 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: New Pic.-Haemanthus unifoliatus Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 20:54:20 -0800 WITH THE HELP OF Mary Sue, I have just added a picture of Haemanthus unifoliatus to the wiki page at - http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Haemanthus_unifoliatus.jpg Doug Westfall From msittner@mcn.org Mon Nov 3 10:53:40 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031103073425.00b66590@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Topic of the Week Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:50:46 -0800 Dear All, I did not announce the topics for discussion for November because I could not get confirmation from a number of people who have said they will provide introductions for me. I am finding that this job of organizing the topics is getting to be a bit of a challenge for me, especially as I spend a fair amount of time on the list and the wiki as well. I understand when our idea got transferred to Alpine-l they decided to have four people involved, not one. My husband says that because so many of our introductions have been so complete and wonderful that people are reluctant to commit to writing one because they don't feel they can provide anything that matches the standard. In addition I know we are all busy and there are times of the year that this is more true than others. And some people are buried in spam or behind in their email. All of this no doubt contributes to my lack of responses when I write about providing an introduction for us or try to find out when one that was promised might be ready. I have decided to bring my problem to the group and hope that you can all help me find some solutions so we can continue to have the topic of the week. I know I find it to be really interesting. When I stopped doing it after a year the first time I did it on the IBS list, so many people kept telling me how much they missed it. We could go back to doing the topic of the week as Kelly did it for IBS in Genera 52. He just announced the topic without much of an introduction and hoped that people would share their experiences. Often they did, but not always. I have saved most of the introductions I was able to obtain when I did the topic of the week for Robert Turley's forum. If that topic has been requested on this list, I could see if the previous introducer would be willing to let me use that introduction again. I am sure some of them would. A few already given permission. We have different participants on this list and those archives are only available to a selected few and never were easy to access. Our discussion would be different from whatever discussion came before and I expect enough time has passed that even the introduction would seem fresh. Some of you who do not want to see this die could write me privately and tell me topics you would be willing to introduce and when. Or you could offer to write someone you know is an expert and see if they would provide us with an introduction. Since a lot of people on this list are lurkers I have no idea what your area of interest or expertise is so I can't write and ask you if you'd provide us with an introduction. When I asked people to tell me what they like as topics here are some of the genera people requested: Alocasia/Colocasia/Xanthosoma, Amaryllis, Ammocharis, Amorphophallus, Anthericum, Arum, Begonia (tuberous), Bellevalia, Boophone, Bulbinella, Canna/Musa and Hedychium, Chlorophytum, Colchicum (several votes), Crinum (several votes), Crocosmia, Cryptostephanus, Cybistes, Cyrtanthus (many requests), Dierama, Ennealophus, Eriospermum, Ferraria, Fritillaria (one vote for varieties to be grown in the ground, one for Mediterranean varieties, a couple general), Galtonia, Geissorhiza, Gelasine, Gesneriads, Gladiolus (one general vote, one for species, one for summer growing varieties), Gloriosa, Gynandriris (now part of Moraea), Hippeastrum (several votes), Homeria (now part of Moraea), Hyacinths (not sure exactly what this one includes), Hymenocallis, Ipomoea, Kniphofia, Lachenalia, Ledebouria, Leucocrinum, Lycoris (several votes and we do have some experts on this list and I have saved Kelly's intro from before), Neomarica, Nothoscordum, Nymphaea, Pancratium, Paramongaia, Paris, Phaedranassa, Pleione, Romulea, Scilla, Sinningia, Species tuberous Solanum, Species tulips, Sprekelia, Stenomesson, Tradescantia, Trillium, Tropaeolum, tuberous Salvias, Tulbaghia, Urginea, Watsonia, Worsleya. In addition I still have a number of the general topics that people have suggested that give me breathing room as they mean I don't have to have an introduction ready. So you see it's not that we don't have suggested topics. Please everyone, help me out. If you are an expert or just intensely interested in a genus that isn't on this list and are willing to start out the discussion write me privately and volunteer to do an introduction. I'd schedule your topic right away. It is one way you can be sure we will talk about a topic dear to your heart. Others have told me in the past they learned a lot just by looking up material and thinking through their experience. So there are some benefits to this. The introduction doesn't have to be long, nor does it have to be scholarly. It just gets us started on our way. So far for November we have for next week Oxalis which Robin Attrill will introduce and Steve Marak has told me he will provide me with an introduction for an Aroid topic for the last week in the month. I can probably fill in again with topics that don't require an introduction if I have to, but hope this plea for help will generate some responses, both public and private. So I suggest that our topic for the week this week will be ideas for continuing the topic of the week. Thanks. Mary Sue From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Nov 4 17:10:26 2003 Message-Id: <3FA823D0.10409@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Pacific BX 48 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:10:24 -0500 Regarding BX 48, all the bulbs are represented by images on the Wiki Wiki. They all are grown outdoors in Northern New Jersey Arnold From sgage4@eq.edu.au Tue Nov 4 22:13:02 2003 Message-Id: <6ad5f6fd79.6fd796ad5f@eq.edu.au> From: sgage4@eq.edu.au Subject: Introduction Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 13:12:57 +1000 From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Wed Nov 5 01:21:00 2003 Message-Id: <20031105062059.83803.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: x Amarygia Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:20:59 -0800 (PST) Does anyone know if anyone has done work on back crossing x Amarygias with any other Brunsvigia? I would be interested to see the increase in count and color influence of the reds. There were a lot of seed heads from these today that I saw at the LA Arboretum. John Ingram in L.A., CA. 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From msittner@mcn.org Wed Nov 5 10:50:16 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031105073824.00c2ae10@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Topic of the Week Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 07:48:45 -0800 Hi, There have been no public responses about the topic of the week and I am not sure how to interpret this. One person wrote privately offering to introduce three of the topics listed and another offered to introduce a new topic. Another suggested I consolidate some of the genera, but I'm not sure how to do that. Should I recycle introductions? Do we want to have topics without introductions? Since anyone can suggest we talk about anything any time I don't know if this would be a help, but maybe it would be a way for those who are interested in a topic but not brave enough to ask. If people don't really care about this I will finish up the topics I can do without an introduction, integrate the promised introductions, and then retire. Mary Sue From mark@marksgardenplants.com Wed Nov 5 11:08:20 2003 Message-Id: <006101c3a3b7$059b91d0$3ed39851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Topic of the Week Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:08:15 -0000 Mary Sue I didn't see the last TOW or maybe I deleted it by mistake. What was it? Mark N Ireland From jennifer.hildebrand@att.net Wed Nov 5 12:18:45 2003 Message-Id: <110520031718.17867.2fcc@att.net> From: jennifer.hildebrand@att.net Subject: TOW: The TOW Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 17:18:40 +0000 Hi all and especially Mary Sue, Please, please, let's not discontinue the TOW! Of course I understand that Mary Sue is feeling exhausted by her incredible effort, but I think that the TOW is one of the best parts of our group. As for a possible solution, so that we neither exhaust our coordinator or our members' expertise: perhaps we could shift to a bi-weekly TOW? At least for the holidays when we are all so busy with other things... Plus, some topics really catch on, and I suspect we could sustain a longer discussion of them. For those topics that don't - well, I guess we'll all just be more chatty when the next topic appears after a few days of silence! I'm sure others out there have some suggestions, too. How can we lighten Mary Sue's load while still maintaining this very useful method for exchanging information? Best, Jennifer > Mary Sue I didn't see the last TOW or maybe I deleted it by mistake. What > was it? > > Mark > N Ireland > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Nov 5 12:34:09 2003 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Topic of the Week Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:33:54 -0800 I would find it helpful to have one TOW per month (or every second month?) be a "What you should be doing now NH" (Northern Hemisphere) and ditto SH. Besides telling what I should be repotting or watering or twin-scaling, it could also include information about sources. For instance, I try to remember when to check various websites so I can order bulbs, but invariably I get a message like: "Our shipping season is over, but we've left these gorgeous photos so you can see what you missed." -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From fbiasella@watertownsavings.com Wed Nov 5 12:37:10 2003 Message-Id: <001a01c3a3c3$97db7cc0$55a7f10a@www.watertownsavings.com> From: "fbiasella" Subject: TOW: The TOW Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:38:14 -0500 Hello All, On behalf of Mary Sue, I would like to say thank you for all your wonderful and extremely useful information discussed in the TOW. Please don't stop :( I think Jennifer's suggestion is a wonderful one. This would give members a little more time to digest what has been discused in the TOW and it would give Mary Sue some much needed rest. Warm Regards, Fred Biasella Boston (Cambridge)MA USDA Zone 6B -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of jennifer.hildebrand@att.net Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:19 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] TOW: The TOW Hi all and especially Mary Sue, Please, please, let's not discontinue the TOW! Of course I understand that Mary Sue is feeling exhausted by her incredible effort, but I think that the TOW is one of the best parts of our group. As for a possible solution, so that we neither exhaust our coordinator or our members' expertise: perhaps we could shift to a bi-weekly TOW? At least for the holidays when we are all so busy with other things... Plus, some topics really catch on, and I suspect we could sustain a longer discussion of them. For those topics that don't - well, I guess we'll all just be more chatty when the next topic appears after a few days of silence! I'm sure others out there have some suggestions, too. How can we lighten Mary Sue's load while still maintaining this very useful method for exchanging information? Best, Jennifer > Mary Sue I didn't see the last TOW or maybe I deleted it by mistake. What > was it? > > Mark > N Ireland > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From david.t.sneddon@eds.com Wed Nov 5 22:54:54 2003 Message-Id: <33CDDBD8CAEFEB4191ABF6F799032AF204CFB160@aubwm206> From: "Sneddon, David T" Subject: x Amarygias Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:54:48 +1100 John, Please forgive me if I'm going over old and familar ground though I suspect your asking your question with respect to what has been done of late or is intended? But in case this isn't so - There was an article posted by Jim Lykos to Hamish with some discussion around this topic in January 2003 as per the link: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2003-January/000152.html Also worth noting on this subject is Les Hannibal's paper: ON THE ORIGIN OF AMARYGIAS, posted at the IBS site, which mentions some (back) crossing occuring. Do I understand correctly that interspecies crosses most often produce plants which will not set seed, or will set semi-fertile seed. I note that Les mentions this in his experiences with back crossing. A question on my mind is why is Bidwell's multiflora so fertile and its crosses when used as the Amaryllis seed parent.....was this a genetic contribution of the mysteric Amaryllis blanda or just chance luck (like DNA Dice??). (My other big question on multifloras would be - where did that long pseudo neck come from....was it perhaps in some crinum genes??) I'd also be very keen to hear of attempts or efforts to cross any of these plants or multiflora's. Regards, David. From sgage4@eq.edu.au Thu Nov 6 01:51:19 2003 Message-Id: <16c4c416e77c.16e77c16c4c4@eq.edu.au> From: sgage4@eq.edu.au Subject: Second try at introduction Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 16:51:05 +1000 Dear Mary Sue and all, Since this is my first foray into this forum, I'll introduce myself. I am Shelley Gage and live about 20 km from the east coast of Queensland, north of Brisbane, level with Fraser Island. The climate is sub-tropical-I don't know which zone.I have a 10 acre red soil small crops farm on the side of a mountain. (in Qld 380m is a mountain!) In one paddock I have a range of hybrid hippeastrums destined for sale when I retire. Being a fulltime teacher with three almost teenagers I don't have the time to market the bulbs. My real interest is in trialing many other amaryllids which I believe would grow very well here. This lead me to the Symposium in South Africa which far exceeded my expectations. I would love to go to another conference in South Africa but would like to see the summer growing amaryllids in flower. If anyone hears of a gathering in South America( Brazil, Chile) please let me know for that would be another once in a lifetime experience. I won't wax lyrical about the Symposium except to say that the feeling of being with 88 or so other like-minded souls bottomsup at Swellendam, examining, discussing and photographing flowers and in the case of amaryllid leaves was an incredibly exhilarating experience and I can't wait to do it again. Shelley. From Theladygardens@aol.com Thu Nov 6 02:12:53 2003 Message-Id: From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Second try at introduction Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 02:12:47 EST Welcome to this list. I am a novice but it is full of wonderful people who have a lot of knowledge to share. Isn't it wonderful to go on a trip/exploration with other like minded souls. I know I have also been fortunate to do so a few times and love to do it again, over and over. Carolyn in Los Gatos From Theladygardens@aol.com Thu Nov 6 02:14:37 2003 Message-Id: From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Preemergent Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 02:14:29 EST Does anyone have advice on putting preemergent in my garden where I have bulbs planted. Will it inhibit their growth or just inhibit the growth of seeds? Carolyn in Los Gatos, CA zone 9 From dells@voicenet.com Thu Nov 6 06:48:24 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 48 CLOSED Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 06:48:06 -0500 All gone. Packages should go out by the weekend. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Thu Nov 6 09:36:08 2003 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: Topic of the Week Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:36:01 -0300 This is an excellent suggestion. I believe that most (if not all) of us grow plants from both hemispheres and it would be a great way to track what is going on with our bulbs from various climates, perhaps encourage some of the less adventurous of us (like myself) to attempt bulbs we would have otherwise not considered as suitable for our conditions. Rand >I would find it helpful to have one TOW per month (or every second >month?) be a "What you should be doing now NH" (Northern Hemisphere) >and ditto SH. > >Besides telling what I should be repotting or watering or >twin-scaling, it could also include information about sources. For >instance, I try to remember when to check various websites so I can >order bulbs, but invariably I get a message like: "Our shipping >season is over, but we've left these gorgeous photos so you can see >what you missed." > >-- >Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada >maritime zone 8 >cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) >sandy soil >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php -- Rand Nicholson Zone 5b Maritime Canada From rmsachs@ucdavis.edu Thu Nov 6 13:09:56 2003 Message-Id: From: "Roy M. Sachs" Subject: Pre-emergent Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:12:21 -0800 Carolyn: Maybe this isn't the answer you want to hear, but, as with all chemicals, it depends on which one you use, how much you use and the bulb species in question. Many times the premerge hasn't been tested on your species so that you have to do small patch tests to make sure that there is no toxicity I've had some bad experiences with a pre-emergent getting down too deep in the soil and inhibiting root growth (my 'soil' is 90% clay and root systems can be very shallow), but I've also had success when I have had sufficient organic matter to bind the pre-emergent very close to the surface. Again, it's a good idea to do a small patch test. I have used both liquid (Surflan/oryzalin)) and granular (again oryzalin incorporated into granules) on alstroemeria; I prefer the granular for ease of application and saving my back-pack sprayers for other dedicated uses. Big thing for mke is to remember where I used the stuff so that when I return to replant I scrape away the surface soil containing the premerge. Don't want that stuff around the roots! >Does anyone have advice on putting preemergent in my garden where I have >bulbs planted. Will it inhibit their growth or just inhibit the >growth of seeds? >Carolyn in Los Gatos, CA zone 9 >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Thu Nov 6 14:31:02 2003 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476B97594@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Pre-emergent Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:31:05 -0600 Hi Carolyn: I succesfully used Treflan about 15 years ago - it's an agricultural pre-emergent herbicide sold at relatively inexpensive prices to farmers. I varied application rates when making applications to different soil textures. The local extension agent was helpful in recommending rates for the different soil types based upon local farmers use in the agricultural fields. At recommended rates (on the label) I observed some toxicity in a couple of genera of woody plants but none on monocots (Chaenomeles - the flowering quince was one, I can't recall the second genus). The pesiticide laws since then have changed significantly and I am not sure this product is still labeled for landscape use. Regardless, pesticides, whether they be herbicides, insecticides, etc. are tested on a limited number of different kinds of plants before they are released. The odds are the number of bulbous taxa was limited. I agree with Roy, test on a small area using recommended application rates on the label (of whatever you end up using) before making widespread applications. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Thu Nov 6 17:57:46 2003 Message-Id: <1AHt4I-2CvWuw0@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: TOW and more Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 23:57:34 +0100 Dear Mary Sue, Dear All! First of all I want to thank Mary Sue for the wonderful job she has been doing for such a long time. She has always help at hand when not so skilled computerists get stranded.......... and she is a nice person I am sure although I have never met her personally. Please Do not retire from the list! Of course you are allowed a rest if necessary, but retiring.......... not allowed. I very much enjoy the topics of the week although I did not contribute a lot recently, I am so very busy. But I always look at the list of topics and read those that sound interesting. However, I noticed that some contributions do not appear in the list of topics that comes first, having noticed that when my own contribution did not appear in the list of topics but was then found lower down but looking strange with a lot of useless data included. This may explain that some people do not respond or their messages may get lost. (Hope it does not happen with this one....) I very much like the suggestion of a regular topic of what to do in Northern and Southern Hemisphere, this would open the eyes on how other people garden in different parts of the world and will for sure give new ideas and perhaps contacts. I do not see the necessity to have a topic each and every week and neither being Mary Sue the manager of all this all the time. Why can these things not be distributed in some way or the other? My time is limited but I am happy to do further topics in the future as long as I know about them early enough. It is very rewarding to write these contributions and has led to many new contacts, informations and last but not least new plants! So I would also like to encourage other people to do so. All the best with many greetings from uncomfortable cold wet and windy Germany Uli From msittner@mcn.org Thu Nov 6 20:49:04 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031106173320.00d1e1e0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:47:29 -0800 Dear All, I believe the wiki is now working again. There was a serious technical problem with it today and in order to resolve it, it was necessary to put on an old index file which has removed the Hawaiian theme. No longer will you see crashing waves and get messages about your attention to detail is appreciated. Now it is just bare bones, but the pictures are there and the information is there. I am afraid that we will just have to be happy with it as it is. I have been working with support on the wiki for almost 4 weeks now when Mark and I first tried to see if we could control the strange and large files that someone has been adding to the wiki. I was told today that we are supposed to know how to solve these problems on our own so am grateful to the man who helped me resolve today's difficulties. I'll need to change a few of the instructions to conform with how it looks now. When the upload file was fixed, the size of the files that can be uploaded was limited so if anyone puts up a file over 100 kb., it won't be added. So be sure and look at what size your file is before you add it so you won't be frustrated. You can continue to ask me or one of the Marks to help you if you need assistance with the wiki. Mary Sue From eagle85@flash.net Fri Nov 7 00:03:55 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Sprekelia color mutation Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 20:52:57 -0800 To all Sprekelia enthusiasts, I have two plantings of Sprekelia (for about 15 years) numbering somewhere between 200 and 250 bulbs. About five months ago, I dug up about 75 bulbs to make room for something else. Having done nothing with the area, a half dozen small offsets have come up. I was going to dig them out soon, but did not. Man am I glad! One of them is just now blooming and it is a color mutation. The color is NOT subtle! It is quite a contrast. The flower and foliage are clearly Sprekelia, but not the color. I will hold the surprise for a couple of days until the flower is fully open. "Stay tuned for the surprise." Doug From mark@marksgardenplants.com Fri Nov 7 03:33:52 2003 Message-Id: <001201c3a509$df29c090$f26a2bd9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Sprekelia color mutation Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:33:50 -0000 Douglas don't forget to let us see! Mark N Ireland From jshields104@insightbb.com Fri Nov 7 08:14:22 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031107081239.02aa0950@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Sprekelia color mutation Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 08:14:20 -0500 Doug, I can't wait to see that flower! Are the Sprekelia in the clump 'Orient Red' or some other named variety? Jim Shields At 08:52 PM 11/6/2003 -0800, you wrote: >To all Sprekelia enthusiasts, > >....... One of them is just now blooming and it is a color >mutation. The color is NOT subtle! It is quite a contrast. The flower and >foliage are clearly Sprekelia, but not the color. ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From mark@marksgardenplants.com Fri Nov 7 10:58:20 2003 Message-Id: <000b01c3a547$ef7f1510$e96a2bd9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Sprekelia color mutation Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:58:05 -0000 Are the Sprekelia in the clump 'Orient > Red' or some other named variety? Wow I didn't even know there are cultivars available. Mark N Ireland From eagle85@flash.net Fri Nov 7 12:06:35 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Sprekelia color mutation Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 08:55:34 -0800 Mark SmythDoug Westfall mark@marksgardenplants.com1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Are the Sprekelia in the clump 'Orient > Red' or some other named variety? ********** Mark, I have 'Orient Red' and it will be blooming in a "fortnight." I will take a picture to compare. > > Wow I didn't even know there are cultivars available. ******** I have the one in the picture, 'Orient Red' (which is a color variation), S. howardii (there is a pic. on the wiki), and this mutation which just appeared in my garden. > Doug Westfall From eagle85@flash.net Fri Nov 7 12:11:03 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Sprekelia color mutation Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 09:00:06 -0800 J.E. ShieldsDoug Westfall jshields104@insightbb.com1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Doug, > > I can't wait to see that flower! Are the Sprekelia in the clump 'Orient > Red' or some other named variety? > > Jim Shields ************* Jim, I have 'Orient Red' and it will be blooming in a week or two. I will take a picture to compare. > I have the one in the picture, 'Orient Red' (which is a color variation), S. howardii (there is a pic. on the wiki), and this mutation which just appeared in my garden. > Doug Westfall From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Fri Nov 7 15:56:19 2003 Message-Id: <20031107205609.9175.qmail@span.corp.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Spreklia 'Red Orient' Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 12:56:09 -0800 (PST) "Wow I didn't even know there are cultivars available. Mark N Ireland" Mark, Jim, et al. I have sent Sprekelia 'Red Orient' off to be tiisue cultured. It is in trials this year and then next year it should be available as starter plants. I got my plant thanks to Lee Poulsen. So, it should be hitting the market full speed soon. I'll keep everyone posted. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From eagle85@flash.net Fri Nov 7 17:19:13 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Sprekelia mutation? Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:08:14 -0800 I am posting it to the wiki. Doug From samhay@earthlink.net Fri Nov 7 21:18:10 2003 Message-Id: <1C21EA6E-1192-11D8-BDD4-000393B8CD9A@earthlink.net> From: Sam Hay Subject: Marguerite English Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 18:20:24 -0800 Hello, I am a new member to the list and will introduce myself later. For now I wonder if anyone has been in contact with Marguerite English since the So Calif fires went through Descanso, CA where she lives? Hoping for the best Sam Hay From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Fri Nov 7 21:25:09 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20031108132538.00a8d3a0@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Marguerite English Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:25:38 +1100 >For now I wonder if anyone has been in contact with Marguerite English >since the So Calif fires went through Descanso, CA where she lives? > >Hoping for the best Sam Hay > Sam, Welcome to the list. There are a good bunch of friendly people here so you should enjoy yourself. Margeurite has been in contact with the list. One the 30th October she sent the following...... I am sending this to the list rather than privately so that people know that Sam has had a response . All the Best. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia ******* Copy of message from Margeurite English 30-Oct-2003 *************** Dearall. I am safe amd with all of my daughters and son-in-law. We evacuated Sunday night and have stayed together. We feel blessed to have been with each other all the way. We first went to Descanso community and stayed with my foster-daughter. At 3 am the sheriff came through, calling for evacuation, saying 'the fire is immenent.' We left. again in caravan with the entire family, going to the Red Cross shelter east toward the desert. We stayed for two days, anxiously asking anyone from the area for news, and it sounded bleak about the condition of our little valley. Tuesday morning. a couple of neighbors got in. At that time, the fire had capriciously taken 5 houses in the valley, but mine was safe. My daughter's building is standing but no one went close and there may be damage inside. My oldest daughter's house a few miles away was also safe at that time. Tuesday, my youngest daughter came to the evac center and convinced us to go to her house in University Town Center (near the coast.) We are safe and together. We have packed 5 adults, 4 dogs, 3 cats and 8 birds into her two bedroom condo! This morning, we are going to check on the properties and confirm that the fire didn't double back on us. We are prepared for property loss if that has happened, but are grateful that all of us are safe. Needless to say, the newsletter will be late this fall (G!), but I took my computer, so it is ready as soon as I can set up again and have electricity. This modern life surely makes it easier to gather one's pictures and important documents! The greenhouse roof was blowing in the wind, so I may have a few bulb losses, but we'll see what has happened soon. I am using my daughter's computer, so will check my e-mail for a couple of days here before I go home. Thanking God and the fire people! Marguerite From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Fri Nov 7 21:30:45 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20031108133114.00a8be40@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Marguerite English - Part 2 Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:31:14 +1100 Sam, This is the later message that she sent to the list (after the fire had been through). As you can see she is safe and sound, and houses have miraculously survived. Someone was obviously looking after her!! Sorry everyone for having had 2 of these messages..... I figured that both of them together would not have gone through as too long, so I decided to forward the 2 messages separately. I hope no-one minds too much? Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia ******** Copy of Message from Margeurite Engllish 31-Oct-2003 *********** I went out into the mountains yesterday with my family. The flames were nowhere close to my oldest daughter's home and everything there is ok. The flames were within inches of my home which has a partly constructed addition going on. The walls are still plywood. I have no idea why it is still standing, but there it is; safe and sound. Almost everything on the surrounding ten acres was at least flashed over, and a portion of it which we had not cleared burned hot and heavy. My water tank, well house, pressure tank are all gone or messed up. The well pressure tank actually exploded, probably from contained steam. The brass fittings on the other devices melted completely away. The 7000 gallon water tank is completely empty, whether from leakage or evaporation. The propane in my tank is gone, who knows how that leak affected the fire there. All exposed plastic faucets or electric wire cables have oompletely melted. The fire burned around the edges of my wooden planter boxes, and any mulch made from chippings obviously burned really hot, because the ground is white and bare in those places. The fire burned all around the greenhouse, but did not touch the structure. It even melted some pots next to the greenhouse, leaving lumps of soil in the places. It is very dry inside; I will be buying a tank for the back of my SUV tomorrow, so I can haul water up on Sunday when I go back. The roses, trees and shrubs are mostly gone, although some will arise from the ashes. The saddest plant losses are the native Englemann oaks and the manzanita. Both of the oaks look lost, but these plants are surprising. They are still alive at the heart and some will put out new leaves and branches as they have time to recover. The manzanita is definitely a California plant that regrows after burns, and will start again up from the roots. My goats did die in the fire. There were two neighbors who (foolishly) stayed; they have been taking care of other animals, including my middle daughter's goats which did survive. The fire scorched all around the cage, right up to the wire. This family's house was in a quonset hut (made of heavy rounded steel arches.) It is a complete loss. The structure is standing there, but everything else is ash. The trip through the burned areas was completely strange. The chapparal looks like it was bombed. There are scorched sticks and yucca plant remains still standing. Everything else is scorched black on the dirt and covered with blowing ash. Despite all of this, we feel blessed. We have each other, and have stayed together all the way. I am so proud of my daughters and son-in-law, who are absolutely doing the best possible support and caring for each other and for me. We are still feeling shell-shocked, but are glad we went up to see how things are for ourselves. The fire engines were in our valley last night doing mopping up and the fire crews are heroes. Marguerite, who is well-cared for and doing well despite these trials. _______________________________________________ From samhay@earthlink.net Fri Nov 7 22:14:57 2003 Message-Id: <0AB76006-119A-11D8-BDD4-000393B8CD9A@earthlink.net> From: Sam Hay Subject: New Member Intro Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 19:17:10 -0800 Hello, I am a new member to the list. I was encouraged to join by my next door neighbor Tom Wells. While I have always been interested in gardening and "specimen" type plants my interest has intensified in the last couple of years. About 7 years ago Joann, my wife, said "I would like to have a koi pond". I built a 3000 gallon koi pond that is a great comfort in our small garden. Three miniature longhaired Dachshunds rule our garden and home. My professional life was spent at California State Polytechnic University, Pomona. I began there as a photographer and finished as a multimedia producer. For many years I pursued an intense interest in personal or "fine art" photography. Tom Wells, a member of the list, has been responsible for supplying me with almost all of the several hundred Clivia seeds and seedlings we have in cultivation. I also have many bulbs he has let/ask me cultivate. I am looking forward to learning more about this very interesting area of horticulture. Thank you in advance for your help and information. sam From mikemace@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 7 23:34:25 2003 Message-Id: <000401c3a5b4$6882ba40$ee05510c@d1fqn01> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Too many Amaryllis photos! Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 20:54:34 -0800 Thanks to some very gracious help from Mary Sue, the Wiki has now gone from having only a couple of Amaryllis photos to having too darned many. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Amaryllis I finally got around to digitizing photos of all the Les Hannibal Amaryllis "multiflora" bulbs I received several years ago (at least, the ones that have bloomed so far). Now you can see the whole range, from white to really dark pink, with lots of interesting variation. Well, it's interesting if you're into this stuff. If you want to look at only one photo, check out the one I labeled "bullseye." Mike San Jose, CA Zone 9 (min temp 20f) PS: Would you believe it -- one of the multifloras is still in bloom today, three months after the blooming season started. From mrgoldbear@yahoo.com Sat Nov 8 00:23:11 2003 Message-Id: <20031108052310.1619.qmail@web20505.mail.yahoo.com> From: David Sneddon Subject: Bidwell's Amaryllis belladonna x 'multiflora' discussion Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 21:23:10 -0800 (PST) Howdy, Jim Lykos and I had an offline discussion (approx september 2003) about Amaryllis belladonnas and multiflora hybrids which we feel would be beneficial to share. Much of this converstation is based on snippets from the PBS and ABA bulb forums during the year. In particular it may help those currently making enquiries about amarygias. An easy to read table format of this discussion can be found at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Australian_Bulbs/files/ However if you can't access this or do not have the appropriate software eg. MS Word then here is the text version: *** Regards, David. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard From voltaire@islandnet.com Sat Nov 8 00:27:13 2003 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Too many Amaryllis photos! Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 21:27:11 -0800 Thank you, Mike - digitizing all those pictures was a lot of work, but very interesting. Unless a person grows masses of flowers from seed, one never sees the range of variation that is possible. Usually, the grower chooses a couple of favourites, and that is all that the rest of us see. Maybe we all would have chosen differently. You mention a number of times that you are selecting for flowers arranged radially. This is a good idea for a garden plant, as so often one-sided flower heads resolutely turn their backs on the viewer, no matter which way they get planted. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From cf018a3312@blueyonder.co.uk Sat Nov 8 03:41:02 2003 Message-Id: <001201c3a5d3$348dda20$7e89eb50@davidfen> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Too many Amaryllis photos! Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 08:35:03 -0000 Mike, Many I publicly take the opportunity to thank you and Mary Sue for putting the pics of the Amaryllis on the wikki. A superb selection to study, and it's very nice that such a large gene of Les's hybrids still exists in the US. Many thanks for sharing them with us. Best Wishes, Dave David Fenwick NCCPG National Plant Heritage Collections of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens Estover Plymouth Devon England PL6 8TW Websites www.theafricangarden.com www.crocosmiaheritage.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Mace" To: Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 4:54 AM Subject: [pbs] Too many Amaryllis photos! > Thanks to some very gracious help from Mary Sue, the Wiki has now gone from > having only a couple of Amaryllis photos to having too darned many. > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Amaryllis > > I finally got around to digitizing photos of all the Les Hannibal Amaryllis > "multiflora" bulbs I received several years ago (at least, the ones that > have bloomed so far). Now you can see the whole range, from white to really > dark pink, with lots of interesting variation. Well, it's interesting if > you're into this stuff. > > If you want to look at only one photo, check out the one I labeled > "bullseye." > > Mike > San Jose, CA > Zone 9 (min temp 20f) > > PS: Would you believe it -- one of the multifloras is still in bloom today, > three months after the blooming season started. > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 03/11/03 From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Sat Nov 8 04:47:53 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20031108204823.00b5e370@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Too many Amaryllis photos! Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 20:48:23 +1100 >A superb selection to study, and it's very nice that such a large gene of >Les's hybrids still exists in the US. > Dave, It is also worth noting that when Les's hybrids were saved some time ago seed was harvested and sent around the world as well. A number of us throughout the world therefore have some of these genetics here as well, which means his genes will be continued in breeding programmes throughout the world, not just in the US. Talk about a Legacy!! Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From roberth6@mac.com Sat Nov 8 05:08:01 2003 Message-Id: <2799FD80-11D3-11D8-8B5A-0003938EDBFA@mac.com> From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Bulb Lecture Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 21:06:00 +1100 Hi all, I was fortunate to be able to travel to Melbourne earlier this week to attend the Alpine Garden Society , Victorian Group 2003 lecture. During registration the plant trade table was a very popular area. The speakers were Mat Murray who is a Senior Horticulturalist , Rock Garden, Mount Tomah annex, Sydney Botanical Gardens and Tony Hall , Manager of the Alpine Unit at Kew Gardens. Mat spoke of his trip to the Atlas Mountains in Morocco . This is a harsh environment where the summers are very hot and dry by day but very cold overnight. He was looking for plants which may suit the Mount Tomah Rock Garden which gets similarly hot and dry in summer. This is the home of garden favourite Narcissus bulbocodium but surprisingly Mat found that it often grew in niches where some moisture was retained and has subsequently found in culture that it flowers better in Sydney after some moisture during summer dormancy. The slides of the alpine landscapes were amazing and Mat's snippets of Moroccan culture made a very entertaining presentation. Tony presented an A to Z of rare bulbous plants he has cultivated at Kew. We saw about 120 rare species of which about one quarter were of his favourite genus Iris , especially the Junos. I have much enjoyed an article by Tony on Juno cultivation, in the AGS special bulb issue in 1998, so to hear more of these amazing bulbs was the driving force for me to cross Bass Straight. Most of the bulbs he mentioned were grown in the Alpine House at Kew to protect them from the extremes of environment especially excess moisture. Some of the taxa he showed us represented the only known representatives in cultivation and sadly one or two of these have been lost to cultivation. There were too many rarities to mention them all but I must mention a few which have remained in my memory. My favourites included Lilium catesbaei (SE USA), Trillidium govanianum ( W Himalayas) , natural hybrid Colchicum kesselringii x luteum (Tadjikistan - kicking myself I didn't order it from the last Archibald list) , Galanthus trojanus (NW Turkey) , Crocus moabiticus (Jordon - an RIP plant), the Juno Iris - I could list 20 or so, Stenomesson aurantiaca (Ecuador, Peru ), Roscoea purpurea "Red Gurkha (Nepal) ,Amorphophallus kiusianus ( Japan , Taiwan , SE China - a hardy one ) and the newly described Biarum ditschianum (SW Turkey - just a hairy spadix appendix poking out of the ground.) Tony was a very entertaining and humerous speaker . Some of his descriptions of the smell of plants were very funny - "wet doggy " was a common one , others are perhaps best not mentioned , although Tony was able to get away with them. Around 200 people thoroughly enjoyed this evening which was rounded off by a delicious selection of edible goodies from Patterson's Cakes workplace of Pastrycook and legendary bulb grower Otto Fauser. Cheers, Rob in Tasmania From cf018a3312@blueyonder.co.uk Sat Nov 8 06:03:03 2003 Message-Id: <000e01c3a5e7$0abb95c0$7e89eb50@davidfen> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Not enough Amaryllis !!! - lol Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 10:57:03 -0000 >>>>>which means his genes will be continued in breeding programmes throughout the world, not just in the US. Hi Paul, I fully realise this, and yes the same here at my place as I've quite a few also, and there are also many in Spain. However at the time of donation and on the IBS list, there wasn't a lot of interest in keeping what could be considered 'a collection' of them together in one place, and in the United States. Obviously where they were bred, and where they really belong. Full marks to Mike, he's doing a grand job with those he has, and is keeping a stock of the of the 'original' bulbs alive. Obviously both better and inferior bulbs could be produced from all the seed that's flying around, but conserving the original plants from Les's garden is extremely important. I'm very much looking forward to the continued breeding though, and think that there's still a lot of work that can be done, and especially down under, as Jim's doing a lot of good work. Don't hammer the Scots too much mate. Best Wishes, Dave David Fenwick NCCPG National Plant Heritage Collections of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens Estover Plymouth Devon England PL6 8TW Websites www.theafricangarden.com www.crocosmiaheritage.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 03/11/03 From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Sat Nov 8 06:13:23 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20031108221351.00802550@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Not enough Amaryllis !!! - lol Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 22:13:51 +1100 Dave, >I fully realise this, and yes the same here at my place as I've quite a few >also, and there are also many in Spain. However at the time of donation and >on the IBS list, there wasn't a lot of interest in keeping what could be >considered 'a collection' of them together in one place, and in the United >States. Obviously where they were bred, and where they really belong. > Very true!! I was just observing that it is wonderful that others of us have been able to partake of the gene pool as well. Of course I have no idea where I am actually going to PLANT the darn things when they need planting out .... but that is fairly standard for me with my teensy tiny little corner block on which everything is packed in with the proverbial shoe-horn. As I was discussing on the phone this evening with a gentleman from the UK..... the Internet has made gardening so much wider for so many of us. Whereas we used to share with friends in the same town or city, or maybe state or country, we now share worldwide plant material which allows us things we've never dreamed of owning before. Some of us with higher quarantine of course end up a little jealous but if we grow things from seed we end up with the plants eventually . That is the thing I have found most about these gardening lists..... that the spirit of gardening can now be shared with people all over the world and we can learn so much from hearing about others experiences in totally different climates. The bulbs and seeds from Les' collection are a fine example as without these gardening groups they never would have been saved or no-one would ever have even known about them in teh first place. Now, so many of us throughout the world have our own small part of the collection, something we would never have had without this list. For all it's quirks and irritations the Internet really CAN be a wonderful place!! Anyway, I'd best stop rabbiting on. I just think its great that a group of people from so diverse countries and growing areas can come together and discuss things like this, sharing ideas as well as plant material around the world. Well done everyone!! > >I'm very much looking forward to the continued breeding though, and think >that there's still a lot of work that can be done, and especially down >under, as Jim's doing a lot of good work. Don't hammer the Scots too much >mate. Jim's results will certainly be interesting, that is for sure!! Half-time and the scores are 9 all........ bring on the Scot-hammering.... Soon Please!!?? Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From msittner@mcn.org Sat Nov 8 12:10:41 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031108082221.00b4fec0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Hybrids Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 09:08:51 -0800 Dear All, As long as we are on the subject of hybrids I put pictures on the wiki of three of the Ornithogalums we saw at Rod and Rachel's small holding. You may recall I spoke of their frustration that a lot of these wonderful plants were sitting the year out under ground, but these were in bloom. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Ornithogalum Also Lee Poulsen has uploaded these files, but not yet put them on a wiki page. Perhaps he can tell us about them. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Habranthus-Rhodophia%231081CB.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Habranthus-Rhodophia%231081CD.jpg I am wondering what page people think crosses like these should be on. Both Habranthus and Rhodophiala, one or the other with reference on the other to the other wiki page, or should we make a page for crosses between two genera? Or all three? Where would you look? I think for those people from the outside they will find it any place we put them if the text is clear so the message can be picked up in a search engine. Mary Sue From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat Nov 8 12:15:18 2003 Message-Id: <3FAD24A5.7040502@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Hybrids Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 12:15:17 -0500 Mary Sue; My vote is to put all the hybrids under that heading( Hybrids) . Like the mystery bulbs and the diseased bulbs. Arnold From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Sat Nov 8 12:18:41 2003 Message-Id: <3FAD2568.2010802@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Hybrids Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 11:18:32 -0600 Mary Sue: I would agree with Arnold with maybe subdivision by Family. Hybrids from Amaryllidaceae, for instance. Arnold Trachtenberg wrote: > Mary Sue; > > My vote is to put all the hybrids under that heading( Hybrids) . Like > the mystery bulbs and the diseased bulbs. > > Arnold > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Sat Nov 8 12:24:21 2003 Message-Id: <1c2.116043e1.2cde80c2@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Phaedrenassa_cinera Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 12:24:18 EST I have added animage of Phaedrenassa cinera to the Wiki at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Phaedrenassa_cinera.jpg Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From msittner@mcn.org Sat Nov 8 14:18:05 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031108102700.00a27f00@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Hybrids Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 11:01:50 -0800 Hi, When you talk about making a separate page for hybrids are we talking about all hybrids or just hybrids between two genera? We after all have a number of genera where there are a lot of hybrids. They are first put on a wiki page for that genus and then as that page gets too long are separated out as a page just for those hybrids leaving the species on the main page. Current examples: Allium hybrids Alstroemeria hybrids Hippeastrum hybrids Lillium hybrids Narcissus hybrids As I think about it I believe we did Tulipa a little different. We started with a Tulipa page and then made a new page for Species Tulips linked to the main page. If we made a hybrid page we could also add these pages to that page, but I think leaving them on their genus page too makes sense as well. A wiki page can be linked to a whole lot of other pages. Each person who makes a wiki page for himself links all of the pictures added to the wiki to their personal page (or I do it if that person forgets) for example. So they could easily be both places. Our focus has seemed to be more on species than hybrids so I suspect we won't have huge numbers of these and since we have avoided arranging by families for genera (since this is fluid and the public and even some enthusiasts may not know which family to look in) I'm not sure we should do this for hybrids. But we could do a table if we had a lot of them since Mark Wilcox has discovered how to do this. I was thinking about the intergeneric hybrids. We could list them separately on the home page or we could do a hybrid page there as Arnold suggested and add all of those listed above in table format and make a new page for intergeneric hybrids and start it off with the two from Lee. As we got more of them we could decide then to divide them by families or some other system. The Amaryllis page right now has only hybrids on it. Then there is the question of cultivars. I'm inclined to leave cultivars linked to a species on the genus page. But for instance there are named Colchiums not linked to species so they eventually probably need to be on a Colchicum hybrid page. Comments please. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Sat Nov 8 15:07:39 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031108110224.00dc4480@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Topic of the Week Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 11:59:23 -0800 Dear All, I want to thank the people who responded privately and publicly to my request for help on the topic of the week and to those who were generous in their support and appreciation. I have considered all the input and have some ideas about how to move forward, but this can still change. First off I would like to announce that Diane Whitehead has kindly agreed to pursue her suggestion for focusing once a month on what to do that month. In her usual organized fashion she has already thought how to break it down and is now looking for a Southern Hemisphere partner. The first week of the month she will be in charge and that will relieve me of 12 topics a year. So thanks go to Diane. This will start in December. When we were organizing the topic of the week last year, Lauw suggested we spread a topic out over two weeks and I have tried it a couple of times. I think he was thinking since we are all busy this would give people more time to respond. It has been my observation that few topics last that long. Most don't even last a whole week unless the moderator or the coordinator (me) continues to make comments and ask questions. Some of those late in the week insertions have often brought out valuable information and I would encourage everyone to help out with this. If the topic is moving, I can remain silent and will have time for other things. When I asked people if they wanted the topic of the week and asked how they were willing to participate a lot of people weren't willing to do introductions but they were willing to ask questions and share their experience. It would really help if more of you who said you would do this will speak up on those topics you are interested in. A good question is very valuable as it often elicits information you would never get any other way. I have a number of suggested topics that won't require a long introduction so I will continue to do at least one of those a month. A few people have promised introductions in the future so hopefully I can come up with at least one of those a month too. Mark McDonough suggested if I was really stuck I could announce a genus and ask for those who grow it to come forward and share their experiences. I also think I could recycle topics. Only one person commented on this and thought we should stick with new topics, but these introductions are about four years old and I would suspect that even those few people who read them may not remember them. I often find it very interesting to review an old topic for something I might not have been interested at the time and even some I was interested in I may have missed some significant points. In addition if I know that any of you are really interested in a specific genus you may hear from me asking you to do an introduction even if no one has requested it. And I'd hope you'd say yes. Introductions do not have to be elaborate. Since I have no idea who to ask to do introductions about some of those genera suggested and only John Ingram came forward offering to help with a few of them, I am a bit stuck. I know that we have people who would like to talk about hardier bulbs, but I need resources for these. I am much more knowledgeable about resources for things I might be able to grow. So if it seems we focus more on Mediterranean topics that is because I know people I can ask about them. Another idea I would like to throw out to consider and hope to get some feedback on is having a monthly topic on what is blooming in the garden that month. I find it very interesting when I get my IBSA newsletter to see which plants were brought for display each month. On the other hand listing plants could get a bit boring so perhaps people may not want to do this. But for those wanting to have year round bloom in their gardens if we did this and people from both hemispheres participated, we would begin to have an idea of what to plant in different parts of the world for continuous bloom. It would be important for people to include their geographical information when they responded. We could do this for a year at least. That would leave me most months with just coming up with one topic to try to find someone to introduce or occasionally two. I appreciate the offer to let me catch my breath that came from a few of you and will certainly choose to do that if I send a bunch of emails and get no responses. One thing I would like to do in December is to review the Urls from last year. Diane has agreed to gather together all the useful Urls presented last year and check to see if they are still operational. I would like to compile the urls for all the members of this list who have a web site. If you were a member of our group last December and nothing has changed you do not need to respond to me. If you have joined our group since then or added a web site or changed your web site please contact me privately with that information. I may have it, but then again I may not so I'd rather err on the side of getting information I already have. I for one want to support the members of this list when I think of buying seeds and bulbs. So once a year this is your chance for free advertising. By the way Lauw defined what he thought was needed to make the topic of the week work. He did it because he thought it was a way to divide the job up if I could find volunteers for any parts of the job. I think he has really focused on the important aspects and when I looked at what he wrote, I thought no wonder I feel burned out! Anyone out there who is willing to help out with any of this for one or more topics will get my appreciation and that of the whole group as well. planning the calendar of topics finding competent persons to introduce the topics finding and representing previous relevant postings finding literature references 'animate' the discussions when it is stalling and concluding the period Mary Sue From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Nov 8 15:15:23 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Too many Amaryllis photos! Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 14:15:04 -0600 Dear Mike, Mary Sue and all; Thanks for all the pics, but I wonder why there are no pics of named Amaryllis belladona cvs. although, for the life me, all I can think of is the white 'Thor'. Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat Nov 8 16:53:49 2003 Message-Id: <3FAD65EC.1080508@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Hybrids Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 16:53:48 -0500 Mary Sue; My suggestion is to have a hybrid page on the genus page. This would allow for example all of the daffodil hybrids to be separated out from the species. As for the colchicum hybrids they should be a sub page on the species page. I think we should work this out now because down the road it can become cumbersome to redo. Arnold From arlen.jose@verizon.net Sat Nov 8 17:56:46 2003 Message-Id: From: "arlen jose" Subject: Hybrids Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 18:00:36 -0500 Hello All, I like the idea of keeping the hybrids on the species page, of course noting what species were involved with that particular cross would be helpful. In the case of the intergeneric crosses, it may be useful to have a hyperlink on the two genera used in that cross so that one could compare and possible try to reproduce. Warm Regards (from very chilly Boston) Fred Biasella -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Arnold Trachtenberg Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 4:54 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Hybrids Mary Sue; My suggestion is to have a hybrid page on the genus page. This would allow for example all of the daffodil hybrids to be separated out from the species. As for the colchicum hybrids they should be a sub page on the species page. I think we should work this out now because down the road it can become cumbersome to redo. Arnold _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From puppincuff@cox.net Sat Nov 8 18:02:42 2003 Message-Id: <001301c3a64c$e66e00c0$738e0544@oc.cox.net> From: "puppincuff" Subject: Preemergent Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 15:06:10 -0800 preemergent should not affect bulbs. If you overdo either Surflan or Treflan, it will temporarily distort the new growth. chuck Schwartz zone 9----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Preemergent > Does anyone have advice on putting preemergent in my garden where I have > bulbs planted. Will it inhibit their growth or just inhibit the growth of seeds? > Carolyn in Los Gatos, CA zone 9 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Nov 8 18:14:23 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031108150923.00b725f0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: More fall crocuses Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 15:14:10 -0800 I have just posted two images on the wiki of crocuses in flower today, November 7: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Crocus_moabiticus.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Crocus_cartwr_CEH.jpg The pot of Crocus moabiticus may not look like a medal-winner but I am very proud of it, having grown these from seed in the early 1990s (SBL 171) and maintained them since. There is now another pot in the frame of small offsets, not yet flowering (it rarely makes offsets) and two pots of seedlings of different ages, and seed and corms have gone to other growers. It is one of the rarest crocus species and deserves to be kept going. Its habitat in Jordan is under severe pressure from development and overgrazing. These plants are kept quite dry in summer. Not apparent in the photo is the persistent dry (marcescent) foliage, which I removed when repotting them this summer. This form of Crocus cartwrightianus ("wild saffron") has the number CEH613 and is very vividly colored in comparison to other forms of the species, which is easily cultivated in mild climates. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat Nov 8 20:13:42 2003 Message-Id: <3FAD94C5.3060102@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: More fall crocuses Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 20:13:41 -0500 Jane: Is the cartwrightianus also a source of saffron? What is your potting mixture for these winter flowering crocus? Arnold From khixson@nu-world.com Sat Nov 8 21:37:10 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20031108183651.0093220c@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Pre-emergent Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 18:36:51 -0800 Hi, Carolyn: In addition to Roy and Boyce's remarks: >I've had some bad experiences with a pre-emergent getting down too >deep in the soil and inhibiting root growth >but I've also had success when >I have had sufficient organic matter to bind the pre-emergent very >close to the surface. At one time I had a small nursery, and weeds overwhelmed me-especially at first. When I considered using a pre-emergent (at that time Casoron for fall application and Simazine for spring), several things I remembered caused me to decide not to use pre-emergent herbicides. First, my nursery management professor several times complained that many nurseries didn't get good results from Casoron because they went elk hunting when they should have been applying the Casoron--meaning that timing of the application to catch germinating seedlings before they got too large and grew roots below the pre-emergent, was critical. Second, I visited one nursery in Washington where after several years he couldn't grow plants in the ground, in fact even weeds wouldn't grow--well, preventing weeds had been his intent, but even his crops wouldn't grow. He finally began to grow plants in containers, as even plowing the soil (turning over the top 8") wasn't enough. He finally sold the property and established a new nursery elsewhere. I know he used Casoron, he may have used Simazine, but I wasn't present when he used either. Third, a local nursery here in Oregon growing rhododendrons. They applied Casoron around established plants in the ground, and felt that the plants simply did not grow well afterward. Even by moving plants to another area of the nursery that hadn't been treated, the plants did not grow well for a year or two. These nursery owners were careful to apply the right amounts, the soil was highly organic and mulched with bark mulch, and they felt the Casoron prevented new roots from growing on these older rhododendrons. Note that both of these nurseries were applying Casoron to rhododendrons, which have a fine, fibrous, and shallow root system, as contrasted to something like the coarse, deep root system of roses. Newer herbicides, or different crops, probably would give different results, but I for one would be very careful to test in small areas before using. Ultimately, in my nursery, I did manage to control weeds fairly well without the use of pre-emergent herbicides. It did take time, and the weed population changed, depending on which weed control techniques had been used. So far, nothing seems to work for everything, but a combination works fairly well. Note that, when you manage to control one weed, a different weed often becomes dominant, so changing techniques and herbicides is necessary. Ken From khixson@nu-world.com Sat Nov 8 22:04:56 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20031108190444.0093a750@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Non Chemical Weed Control Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 19:04:44 -0800 Hi, all: As a followup to the pre-emergent weed control discussion, some of the techniques I have used here might be interesting-more for how I try to control weeds than exactly what I do. Under different conditions other techniques will be necessary. I am anything but an organic gardener- some of the things organic gardeners choose to do seem overly effortful-why apply a thousand pounds of organic fertilizer which must be saved, transported and spread, when a twenty pound bag of chemicals will do the same thing? In the same vein, weed control could be a full time occupation, when a few sprays of chemicals will do the same job much faster-and if your time is of any value, also cheaper. First, control weeds before planting an area-with a hoe, a shovel, tilling, or chemical sprays if needed. After planting, mulch-here, with many rhododendrons, bark mulch is used, which is locally produced. In your area, whatever is available and economical. An organic mulch which adds nutrients to the soil seems desireable, but gravel works well in rock gardens. As the mulch eventually begins to break down, either renew it, or hand weed. You can remove grass, persistant weeds like oxalis, canadian thistles, even blackberries, if you get them small enough. It takes persistance to get them while small. When they get a little bigger, use a knife. I bought a set of steak knives, which are kept with the weed control equipment and are never in the house. They have a serrated blade, and a plastic handle. If I leave them out after a weeding session, they'll still be there, even next year, unharmed. A knife makes quick work of small clumps of grass, many broadleaf weeds, even dandelions. Using a knife does not disturb the soil the way pulling weeds does. When weeds get too large for a knife, then a spot spray of weedkiller like Roundup works. A small hand carried bottle is always available and easily carried where needed. Once you have a hand spray bottle, a gallon of spray solution can be mixed and available at all times. When a weed grows in a clump of something, a "drip bottle" such as a liquid detergent bottle can be used. A paintbrush can also work to apply liquid weedkillers. Anything used with chemicals, including weedkillers, should be clearly marked as such. When dealing with a large area, and weeds seeding in, there are several possibilities. Cultivation is the oldest method, but labor intensive. Mulches of various kinds are a good alternative to cultivation in many situations. In addition to conserving water and adding nutrients, a good mulch prevents weed seeds from germinating by blocking sunlight, insulated the ground from temperature extremes, and may make weeds easy to pull. I don't like to use black plastic for several reasons, including the fact that once applied it is ugly unless covered, blocks water to plants, "kills" the soil under them, and eventually degrades and must be removed and replaced-meaning yet more "junk" to go to the local landfill. There are weed control fabrics which allow water to penetrate, but are still not pretty, and eventually must go to the landfill. I also find that while weeds do not usually grow through them, weed seeds will germinate on top of them and grow roots through the fabric, and are then a problem. Weeds will also creep over the edges and root down. In other words, they still must be weeded, if less than bare ground. At one time, oxalis was a major problem here-anywhere peat moss has been used, oxalis is likely to appear. No chemicals controlled it, pulling it just made more pieces to sprout. After several years of effort and the oxalis winning more ground, I finally found a method that seems to work. I smother it. When an oxalis plant appears, a piece of paper is placed over it, then mulched with something to hold the paper in place. Here in this rainy climate I usually use four thicknesses of newspaper, but have also have used waste paper, including old computer paper. Mulch not only holds the paper in place, it is a lot more attractive than newspaper-and believe me, "bright white" computer paper in the garden stands out from far away. I grow many plants in containers, and the same technique works for them also. When first trying to smother oxalis in containers, I very carefully cut newspaper to just fit the container, cut a slit to the midpoint of the circle so the paper could be slid in around the stem of the plant. With age and increasing laziness, now a square is cut, placed on the container, and the edges tucked under to resemble neatness. It works just as well. If the slit you cut allows weeds to grow through, put two layers of paper on the pot, rotate the second two layers 90 degrees so the slits overlap only at the stem of the plant. Occasionally an oxalis plant will grow right against the stem of the plant being mulched, and can simply be pulled-any root suckers do not seem to find the same hole. Plants around the outside of the pot also can be pulled in the same way. Once in a while a plant has to be remulched with paper, but very seldom. To my amazement, this technique even works on bindweed/convolvulus. Because bindweed suckers widely, it often needs to be remulched, but it can be killed in one growing season-in contrast to chemical controls which usually seem to need three seasons of persistance to control bindweed. You will have to mulch a wider area, and it will possibly sucker through the mulch--simply apply another layer of paper, wet it down, and remulch. Canadian thistle can be controlled, but the paper must be held down with a heavy object-a full pot, large rock, etc. It may also work to cut off the thistle stem with a shovel or knife so it doesn't push the paper up and expose the thistle to sunlight. Those of us with dry summers can also reduce weeding by using drip irrigation instead of overhead sprinklers. There is still some weeding, but in truth, I rather like to weed--a little. It gets me out with my plants, and I notice many things I otherwise wouldn't have time to see just walking by. Ken, western Oregon From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Nov 8 22:12:43 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031108191053.00bc4ab8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: More fall crocuses Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 19:12:38 -0800 Arnold asked, >Is the cartwrightianus also a source of saffron? What is your potting >mixture for these winter flowering crocus? I haven't ever tried harvesting saffron from C. cartwrightianus but I suppose you could -- the styles are just not as long as in C. sativus. I don't particularly like the taste of saffron so don't harvest it often. These crocuses are potted in the same mix I use for almost everything: 2 parts coarse, sharp "upriver" sand, one part ground horticultural (white) pumice, and one part forest humus from my woods. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From annejim@acay.com.au Sat Nov 8 22:31:40 2003 Message-Id: <3FADB658.6070603@acay.com.au> From: Jim Lykos Subject: Too many Amaryllis photos! Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 14:36:56 +1100 Hi Michael, I can only repeat what has been said earlier - thanks, its great to see the results of Les Hannibal's hybridising with Amaryllis Multiflora cultivars. I have been wondering for some time what happened to his Amaryllis collection and have been hoping that someone will display flower images. 'Bullseye' is certainly very attractive and distinctive. The development of excellent striped forms should be a reality in our life times; there was a Multiflora variety sold by an Australian nursery called Shepherds around 1889, called WG Ainsworth. This variety is described as large, pure white with a crimson stripe down the centre of each tepal. We havent found it yet - but we should be able to recreate this colour form. Cheers Jim Lykos Springwood Australia Zone 9b/10 Michael Mace wrote: >Thanks to some very gracious help from Mary Sue, the Wiki has now gone from >having only a couple of Amaryllis photos to having too darned many. > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Amaryllis > >I finally got around to digitizing photos of all the Les Hannibal Amaryllis >"multiflora" bulbs I received several years ago (at least, the ones that >have bloomed so far). Now you can see the whole range, from white to really >dark pink, with lots of interesting variation. Well, it's interesting if >you're into this stuff. > >If you want to look at only one photo, check out the one I labeled >"bullseye." > >Mike >San Jose, CA >Zone 9 (min temp 20f) > >PS: Would you believe it -- one of the multifloras is still in bloom today, >three months after the blooming season started. > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > From mikemace@worldnet.att.net Sat Nov 8 22:50:35 2003 Message-Id: <001201c3a677$74f5f120$5804510c@d1fqn01> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Too many Amaryllis photos Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 20:10:47 -0800 Jim W. wrote: >>I wonder why there are no pics of named Amaryllis belladona... In my case, it's just because I don't have any named varieties. In fact, I've almost never seen any in catalogs. (Maybe I'm reading the wrong catalogs.) The only named one I saw at Mr. Hannibal's was labeled "Rubra." I have a bulb of it, but it hasn't bloomed yet. Diane W. wrote: >>You mention a number of times that you are selecting for flowers arranged radially. This is a good idea for a garden plant I can't take credit for thinking of this -- Mr. Hannibal told me the best ones were radial, so that's what I tried to dig. It's very hard to pick the radial ones when they're in seed, though -- the flowers often bloom one-sided and then the stems straighten out radially as the seeds mature. To me, the really interesting thing about these flowers is that there are so many characteristics you could choose to breed for -- radial shape, size of flowers, stripes and other color patterns, timing of bloom, ruffles, etc. And I didn't mention scent, which ranges from fairly strong to obnoxiously sweet. My wife won't let me bring any cut Amaryllis flowers into the house because she says they give her a headache. When I made my first digging trip to Mr. Hannibal's place, he said he liked the idea that people would be carrying on with breeding and selecting these plants -- so go for it! It'll be fun to compare online the progress we all make (Paul T, I agree strongly with what you said about the Internet and how it broadens our horizons). Mike San Jose, CA (zone 9, min temp 20F) From Theladygardens@aol.com Sat Nov 8 23:26:26 2003 Message-Id: <9.1bdd69cc.2cdf1bee@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Sprekelia color mutation Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 23:26:22 EST We are all staying tuned, checking the e-mail often hoping to see the Sprekelia. From JFlintoff@aol.com Sat Nov 8 23:42:01 2003 Message-Id: <1d5.13df3c0f.2cdf1f92@aol.com> From: JFlintoff@aol.com Subject: Autumn Crocus Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 23:41:54 EST Jane Thanks for posting a picture of Crocus cartwrightianus CEH . I had lost the label showing the source of this compact and very colorful form which is quite distinct from other cartwrightianus collections here. They do well in the open garden. Still very presentable also are C. medius ' Millesimo ' (much better than the virused commercial form I used to struggle with ), C. niveus in white and pale mauve forms and the always dependable early November C. ochroleucus. The last always looks frail but never fails to increase or flower well in the open, even after a week of frosty nights. Kudos for the C moabiticus. I'm envious! Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washington,USA Zone 8 From JFlintoff@aol.com Sat Nov 8 23:49:36 2003 Message-Id: <17e.22a38b79.2cdf2154@aol.com> From: JFlintoff@aol.com Subject: Off Topic: Scilla lingulata Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 23:49:24 EST Does anyone else grow this dwarf blue charmer? I've grown it for many years in a pot that is overwintered in a frame, but not yet in the open. The 4-5 in racemes are borne above short broad glossy green leaves. It was collected in Morocco by Michael Salmon. Sometimes it flowers in December. Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washigton,USA Zone 8 From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Sat Nov 8 23:52:37 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20031109155309.00a8a550@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Off Topic ????? : Scilla lingulata Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:53:09 +1100 At 11:49 8/11/03 EST, you wrote: >Does anyone else grow this dwarf blue charmer? I've grown it for many years >in a pot that is overwintered in a frame, but not yet in the open. The 4-5 in >racemes are borne above short broad glossy green leaves. It was collected in >Morocco by Michael Salmon. Sometimes it flowers in December. > Jerry, Why would this be Off Topic? It is bulbous (or something close to that) isn't it? As far as I knew anything bulbous or related was "On Topic" for this list? Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From msittner@mcn.org Sun Nov 9 01:33:43 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031108223054.00df12e0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Sprekelia color mutation Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 22:32:09 -0800 Doug has put this on the Sprekelia wiki page where you can compare it with the normal red ones. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Sprekelia From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Sun Nov 9 01:46:56 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20031109174727.00a89100@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Sprekelia mutation? Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:47:27 +1100 At 02:08 7/11/03 -0800, you wrote: >I am posting it to the wiki. > Doug, I'll be interested to hear if it continues to flower that colour after you isolate and nurture it. Could it possibly be a reaction to stress for the bulb? Given by the sound of it you stripped the bed and never did anythign with it afterwards, maybe it is different just because it couldn't quite get the resources together to be "normal"? I am sincerely hoping I am wrong...... here's hoping you prove that by flowering it again the same colour next year. IT definitely gives a different appearance to it, that's for sure. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From jamievande@freenet.de Sun Nov 9 05:37:56 2003 Message-Id: <003801c3a6ad$811e3760$6402a8c0@celeron> From: "Jamie" Subject: Hybrids Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 11:37:32 +0100 Hi, All, I would prefer to see a difference between the intrageneric and intergeneric hybrids. Cultivars can be a bit tricky as many so-called cultivars are probably intrageneric hybrids. Time will tell and they will best be at home on the genus page listed as cultivars until we know more. In the end, one must be able to find the photos! We should avoid hiding them! How about a genus page with the cvs and a linked intrageneric hybrids page (Alliums or Crocus would be good examples) and for intergeneric hybrids using the family as main heading with possible link pages for typical groups of hybrids (Amarylliaceae with a page for Brunsvigia X Amaryllis or Amacrinum, etc.) I don't know how the rest of you see it, but I hate having to scroll, scroll, scroll to get an overview of a page. I prefer more, smaller pages. The obvious problem with hybrids is their fertility or lack there of. The Amarillids seem to be relatively fecund, while the Alliums are often sterile. This means we will see fewer intergeneric Alliums, as well as F2, F3, etc hybrids. Amaryllids could develope into a regular complex of intergeneric hybrids and cultivars. There will be genera under the Amaryllids which tend to be only used or most known for their intrageneric hybrids (Clivia) and may never warrant a heading under Amarylliaceae hybrids. Perhaps a reference link to an intrageneric Clivia hybrids page is the solution. Am I getting too confusing? It's, of course, all perfectly clear in my head, but somethimes the steel trap closes around ones neck! Jamie V. Cologne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Sue Ittner" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Hybrids > Hi, > > When you talk about making a separate page for hybrids are we talking about > all hybrids or just hybrids between two genera? We after all have a number > of genera where there are a lot of hybrids. They are first put on a wiki > page for that genus and then as that page gets too long are separated out > as a page just for those hybrids leaving the species on the main page. > Current examples: > Allium hybrids > Alstroemeria hybrids > Hippeastrum hybrids > Lillium hybrids > Narcissus hybrids > > As I think about it I believe we did Tulipa a little different. We started > with a Tulipa page and then made a new page for Species Tulips linked to > the main page. > > If we made a hybrid page we could also add these pages to that page, but I > think leaving them on their genus page too makes sense as well. A wiki page > can be linked to a whole lot of other pages. Each person who makes a wiki > page for himself links all of the pictures added to the wiki to their > personal page (or I do it if that person forgets) for example. So they > could easily be both places. > > Our focus has seemed to be more on species than hybrids so I suspect we > won't have huge numbers of these and since we have avoided arranging by > families for genera (since this is fluid and the public and even some > enthusiasts may not know which family to look in) I'm not sure we should do > this for hybrids. But we could do a table if we had a lot of them since > Mark Wilcox has discovered how to do this. > > I was thinking about the intergeneric hybrids. We could list them > separately on the home page or we could do a hybrid page there as Arnold > suggested and add all of those listed above in table format and make a new > page for intergeneric hybrids and start it off with the two from Lee. As we > got more of them we could decide then to divide them by families or some > other system. > > The Amaryllis page right now has only hybrids on it. > > Then there is the question of cultivars. I'm inclined to leave cultivars > linked to a species on the genus page. But for instance there are named > Colchiums not linked to species so they eventually probably need to be on a > Colchicum hybrid page. > > Comments please. > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From roberth6@mac.com Sun Nov 9 07:03:36 2003 Message-Id: <7704317D-12AC-11D8-AEAB-0003938EDBFA@mac.com> From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Pre-emergent Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:01:34 +1100 Hi all, I remember visiting a local nursery about 12 months ago and seeing the results of a pre-emergent (brand unknown) on a dedicated bulb bed. It was a mass of distorted and stunted foliage especially Tulipa species but also a number of other genera including Erythronium and Fritillaria . I made a mental note to continue digital removal ! Cheers, Rob in Tasmania From john@johnlonsdale.net Sun Nov 9 09:03:49 2003 Message-Id: <20031109140348.A9BD22003A@happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: Off Topic: Scilla lingulata Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 09:03:43 -0500 Jerry, I grow six different accessions of Scilla lingulata, three as var. ciliolata. I agree they are absolutely charming. They are also incredibly variable in flower time and foliage. My earliest clone flowers sans leaves and was over 6 weeks ago, the last is in flower now and the leaves are around 2" long. The flowers don't vary a whole lot, some have more per stem than others and can be a little lighter or darker, stem length also varies somewhat. The biggest variation is in the leaves - some are bright green and erect (and therefore less appealing) but the nicest has short prostrate leaves which are a purple green in color. Two stocks are undocumented (from Tony Goode and Kath Dryden), the others are Mike Salmon collections. I wouldn't be without any of them. Tony reports his is hardy in his SE English garden, I haven't tried them outside here yet, but will as they build up vigorously. Kath's version can be seen at http://edgewoodgardens.net/Plant%20Galleries/album.asp?pic=Scilla%20lingulat a%20var.%20ciliolata%200000.jpg&cat=Amaryllidaceae\Scilla Best, J. Dr John T Lonsdale, 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From eagle85@flash.net Sun Nov 9 11:58:32 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Sprekelia color mutation Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 08:47:14 -0800 Mary Sue IttnerDoug Westfall msittner@mcn.org1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Doug has put this on the Sprekelia wiki page where you can compare it with > the normal red ones. > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Sprekelia > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php I did put it there. Doug From eagle85@flash.net Sun Nov 9 12:01:57 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Sprekelia color mutation Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 08:50:28 -0800 Theladygardens@aol.comDoug Westfall Theladygardens@aol.com1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > We are all staying tuned, checking the e-mail often hoping to see the > Sprekelia. > _______________________________________________ Since the PBS Email arrangement will not support pictures, I posted it to the WIKI page. Doug From eagle85@flash.net Sun Nov 9 12:09:02 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Sprekelia color mutation Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 08:57:41 -0800 Theladygardens@aol.comDoug Westfall Theladygardens@aol.com1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > We are all staying tuned, checking the e-mail often hoping to see the > Sprekelia. > _______________________________________________ Since several did not catch the notice of the posting to the WIKI, here is the listing reference. Doug Westfall http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Pink%20Sprekelia.jpg From eagle85@flash.net Sun Nov 9 12:09:18 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Sprekelia color mutation Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 08:57:51 -0800 Theladygardens@aol.comDoug Westfall Theladygardens@aol.com1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > We are all staying tuned, checking the e-mail often hoping to see the > Sprekelia. ********* Since several members did not see the posting, here is the WIKI reference. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Nov 9 13:06:56 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031109100423.00bc7d30@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Off Topic: Scilla lingulata Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 10:06:51 -0800 Jerry Flintoff wrote, >Does anyone else grow this dwarf blue charmer? I like it very much too, and posted a picture of it on the wiki recently. I got mine the same place Jerry fif, from Michael Salmon's Monocot Nursery in England. I don't think it would survive very well in a Pacific Northwest winter in the open garden, though (like Jerry, I grow it under "glass"). These broad-leafed Mediterranean scillas that emerge in fall tend to freeze and rot if they are very wet when a hard frost hits them. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From dejager@bulbargence.com Sun Nov 9 13:44:55 2003 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Non Chemical Weed Control Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:39:08 +0100 Ken and forum members, I very much appreciated Ken's intervention as it coincides well m with my nursery experien ce. Simazin and Casoron are in my opinion too harsh. The more re ommended chemicls are CPIC (chlorpropham) in combination with Goltix (metamitron). Allways preceded with contact herbicides (Paraquat or Glyphosate) during the domant season and a last treatment just before emergence. For large cale cultivation I could not go without the use of pre emergent chemicals. But there are other means to ruce the weed population: Especially for the summer growers I have drastically reduced the frequency of irrigation, without a noticable reduction in growth and resulted in far less weeds. The use of drip irrigation tubes positioned under the mulch has been interesting improvement for Cannas, Crinum, Hedychium, Dahlias and other summer growers (2 drip tubes on a 110cm(50") wide bed. Also a general use of a thick layer of mulch has very much reduced weed growth. Both for summergrowers and winter growers; in some cases in the open ground (and in allcases in containers) I use 1- 2cm of gravel mulch. Of course as Ken also stated, thereis also some had left to do, butit remains acceptable this way Regards from France (where we have just finished getting our remaining stock into the ground) Lauw de Jager www.Bulb'Argence.com South of France (zone 8 Olivier) le 9/11/03 4:04, Kenneth Hixson à khixson@nu-world.com a écrit : As a followup to the pre-emergent weed control discussion, some of the > techniques I have used here might be interesting > Those of us with dry summers can also reduce weeding by using drip irrigation > instead of overhead sprinklers. There is still some weeding, but in truth, I > rather like to weed--a little. > Ken, western Oregon Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence From Antennaria@aol.com Sun Nov 9 16:25:57 2003 Message-Id: <1d1.13f5c24b.2ce00ad9@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Hybrids Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:25:45 EST "Jamie" jamievande@freenet.de wrote: >The obvious problem with hybrids is their >fertility or lack there of. The Amarillids seem >to be relatively fecund, while the Alliums are >often sterile. This means we will see fewer >intergeneric Alliums, as well as F2, F3, etc >hybrids. I find that sterility among Allium species to be a rarity, not something that "often" occurs. Example: I have numerous forms of Allium schoenoprasum, and in two forms they seem to be "nearly" sterile and produce precious little seed, but most forms of chives produce masses of seed. All the forms interbreed readily. Apomixis is certainly known within the genus (the ability to produce seed asexually), so that can be a factor. Weather conditions can be the appearance of certain species not being fertile. In a few years, if it's dry enough, the Melanocrommyum section of Allium will produce lots of seed, but there are many years in a row where they fail to set a single seed among many species (this year was such a year, way too much way and tropical downpours). A few of the named "big ball" hybrids, such as the famous 'Globe Master" (macleanii x cristophii), are reportedly sterile, the claim largely borne out in my experience. To see this allium, here's a wiki picture showing a young inflorescence: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/allium/Allium_Globe_Master_young.jpg But one thing I do know, my garden is FULL of Allium hybrid seedlings, and the range of possibilties seems to grow each year. Many species freely hybridize with one another, most often among similar sections of the genus, such as among the Rhiziridium alliums angulosum, senescens, nutans, rubens. Surprising hybrids among more distant species, such as between the American cernuum and stellatum with the European and Asian nutans, senescens, and rubens, fire up the imagination. There are no shortage of hybrids here. Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Nov 9 18:32:34 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031109152938.00b7feb8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: More crocus photos Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:32:23 -0800 I have just added more crocus photos to the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Crocus_ochroleucus.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Crocus_robertianus.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Crocus_laev_Dikti.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Crocus_laev_JJA.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Crocus_boryi.jpg We have had a warm October here, followed by about 10 days of record low temperatures for the dates, and now it has warmed up again. Not only are the crocuses in the bulb frames taking it in stride; those in the open garden have not suffered much either. About 8 species are flowering in the open, most of them having been in situ more than one year. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From mark@marksgardenplants.com Sun Nov 9 19:08:40 2003 Message-Id: <005b01c3a71e$d21c3fb0$41559851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Major update and additions to 'Edgewood Gardens' - John Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:08:50 -0000 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Nov 10 12:25:27 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031109173523.00b7a5d0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: More fall crocuses Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:57:01 -0800 Rodger Whitlock's question about my potting mix is difficult to answer in the detail he asks for, but I will try. >Tell us all a little more about your coarse, sharp upriver sand. What >kind of minerals are in it? Which river? (Some of us *do* travel >through Oregon, you know.) It comes from a quarry fairly high up on the Clackamas River, which drains the Oregon Cascade Mountains just south of Mount Hood. It contains basalt, quartz, and perhaps some other minerals. I've found petrified wood in it occasionally. I haven't had it analyzed. It is sold as concrete sand but a concrete contractor I talked with told me it was lousy for that purpose, being too coarse and "dirty" -- the qualities that help make it perfect for plants. You are welcome to show up at my place with a couple of garbage cans, Rodger; there's a big pile of it here at all times. >And the pumice: what screen mesh would you use for this? We can >get bags of a whitish horticultural pumice here (probably imported >from Oregon in bulk and repackaged), but I'd be interested to know >how coarse or fine the stuff is that you use. That stuff in the bags is exactly what I use. I buy it in bags (about 50 or 60 pounds) because it's easier than shoveling it and having it lie around getting weed seeds in it, and I can carry it in my little car instead of taking the truck to the city. I think it is 1/4 inch minus. I have been told that this product has a fairly high pH, near 7, so it would counteract some of the acidity of the sand and humus. I sometimes add a little slow-release lime to the mix, but not always. >And as for the forest humus: what species contribute to it? Alder (Alnus rubra), vine maple (Acer circinatum), thimbleberry (Rubus parviflorus), trailing blackberry (Rubus sp.), and a little Douglas fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii), and herbs such as Dicentra formosa and Montia. In other words, the same plants Rodger probably has in his woods if there is some surface moisture. Alders are nitrogen-fixers, so the soil under them is quite rich. I put it through a coarse sieve to get the large chunks, bugs, etc., out, but it is not sterilized. In fact, it is probably loaded with nematodes, fungi, and bacteria -- yet it seems to be better for the bulbs than any other organic component I've used. I prefer to get soil from the woods rather than the fields because the weed seeds are less of a problem. There was apparently a question that I missed either here or on Alpine-L about sieves. Rex Murfitt was explaining how to make one. If you are not as handy as Rex (I definitely am not!), you can get excellent, indestructible plastic and wire sieves in all sizes from mining supply stores, which are also on the Internet. I don't think my soil mix has much to do with whatever success I achieve, although it does provide a lot of air space and rapid drainage, which is important for some bulbs. Probably regular repotting in fresh soil, application of fertilizer, good air circulation, and managing moisture are more important than what the bulbs are growing in. After all, in nature many of these bulbs grow in heavy clay (e.g., Fritillaria pluriflora, many Calochortus) or soils derived from limestone (many of the crocuses we've been illustrating) or even ultramafic rock (serpentine). Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From Theladygardens@aol.com Mon Nov 10 01:29:18 2003 Message-Id: <161.27e2c220.2ce08a33@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Sprekelia color mutation Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 01:29:07 EST WOW! What a treat to see, hope it blooms the same color next year, thanks for sharing. From eagle85@flash.net Mon Nov 10 11:05:30 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Sprekelia color mutation Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:54:08 -0800 Theladygardens@aol.comDoug Westfall Theladygardens@aol.com1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > WOW! What a treat to see, hope it blooms the same color next year, thanks > for sharing. > _______________________________________________ ME TOO! DOUG From jamievande@freenet.de Mon Nov 10 16:56:49 2003 Message-Id: <000d01c3a7d5$83e06620$6402a8c0@celeron> From: "Jamie" Subject: Hybrids Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:56:32 +0100 Although I've tried with the few "ball" type Alliums, such as A. giganteum, A. jesdianum, A. christoffii, A. schubertii and their possible hybrids (Lucille Ball, Globemaster, hollandicum, etc), I've never managed to set seed through intrageneric pollination. I've found all the named cultivars I have to be sterile. Of course, this is a limited group! Is anyone working with Allium? I remember a wonderful article in the IBS BULBS on A. flavum cultivars. It would be interesting to have a page of hybrids, even without their parentage! We do need to assure they are posted as hybrids of unknown origin to prevent confusion. Jamie V. Cologne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Hybrids > > I find that sterility among Allium species to be a rarity, not something that > "often" occurs. > > Example: I have numerous forms of Allium schoenoprasum, and in two forms they > seem to be "nearly" sterile and produce precious little seed, but most forms > of chives produce masses of seed. All the forms interbreed readily. > > Apomixis is certainly known within the genus (the ability to produce seed > asexually), so that can be a factor. > > Weather conditions can be the appearance of certain species not being > fertile. In a few years, if it's dry enough, the Melanocrommyum section of Allium > will produce lots of seed, but there are many years in a row where they fail to > set a single seed among many species (this year was such a year, way too much > way and tropical downpours). > > A few of the named "big ball" hybrids, such as the famous 'Globe Master" > (macleanii x cristophii), are reportedly sterile, the claim largely borne out in > my experience. To see this allium, here's a wiki picture showing a young > inflorescence: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/allium/Allium_Globe_Master_young.jp g > > But one thing I do know, my garden is FULL of Allium hybrid seedlings, and > the range of possibilties seems to grow each year. Many species freely > hybridize with one another, most often among similar sections of the genus, such as > among the Rhiziridium alliums angulosum, senescens, nutans, rubens. Surprising > hybrids among more distant species, such as between the American cernuum and > stellatum with the European and Asian nutans, senescens, and rubens, fire up > the imagination. There are no shortage of hybrids here. > > Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States > antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 > ============================================== > >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << > alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western > american alpines, iris, plants of all types! > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From msittner@mcn.org Mon Nov 10 17:52:23 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031110144723.00df4bc0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Oxalis--TOW Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:50:39 -0800 This introduction for the topic of the week from Robin Attrill got filtered out by the our server and I have no clue why so I am forwarding it on. Mary Sue Dear all, Amongst many gardeners Oxalis tends to be rather stigmatised by the occurrence of a few weedy taxa amongst the many hundreds of species which constitute the genus. Fortunately there are also a very large number of desirable species which merit a place in cultivation. The majority of these are geophytes, predominately native to Africa and the Americas, and it is these plants that I will introduce in this weeks TOW. The most extensive number of species, and diversity of form, occurs in South Africa, principally in the winter rainfall regions. These plants, which flower from August through to April in the northern hemisphere, occur in an extraordinary range of habit, leaf shape, and flower colour, examples of which are illustrated on the PBS Wiki at http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Oxalis. We are indebted to the late Michael Vassar, whose enthusiasm for these plants, and generosity in distributing them, has done much to popularise oxalis as a whole. A selection of desirable, and easily grown, species includes O. orbicularis (early flowering lilac blooms over very attractive foliage with purple mid ribs and fringes to the leaflets), the O. flava complex (very variable leaf shape and flower colour, typically yellow but also white and lilac), O. hirta ( variable flower colour from almost crimson, in the form 'Gothenberg', to almost white), O. versicolor (white flowers with crimson on the reverse giving a candy stripe effect when in bud), O. massoniana (orange with a yellow centre), and, towards the end of the season, O. obtusa which possesses probably the most variable flower colour of all with the range encompassing pinks, oranges, yellows and white. I find the best means of cultivation is in pots, kept dry in summer then thoroughly watered in autumn after which they are watered on a needs basis throughout the growth period during which they are kept frost free (minimum 5 celsius). The potting medium should be well drained, and not too rich otherwise foliage will predominate at the expense of flower. These plants require excellent light to prevent etiolation. If plants are grown in open ground those species which produce bulblets at ground level (which disperse readily) should be sited with caution. A second group consists of the 'alpines' from southern South America. Three species are widely available and generally not difficult to grow - O. adenophylla, O. enneaphylla and O laciniata - all of which are very worthwhile either in pots or in a rock garden. These come into growth in late winter and flower in spring and early summer. A considerable number of species occur further north in the Americas but rather few of them are in cultivation. Identification of Oxalis tends to be a rather difficult process due to the paucity of recent literature. As mentioned by Dave Victor in a posting a few weeks ago, there is a Checklist, produced by Richard Clifton of the Geraniaceae group (ISBN: 1-899742-43-3), which assists in sourcing the literature associated with the named species but it does not contain keys. The only handbook on the Southern African species, by Salter, is almost sixty years old - a reprint was produced by Rainbow Gardens Bookshop a few years ago but I do not believe it is still in print. Copies of the original are virtually unobtainable as the print run was very small. Despite these difficulties many of the un-named plants in cultivation do have associated collection/accession numbers - particularly those originating from the Vassar collection - which can be used to provide information on their origin. Sources of Oxalis material are widespread but rather few in number. In the USA they include Telos Rare Bulbs(http://www.telosrarebulbs.com/index.html) which offers a good selection, and the PBS exchange lists contain some excellent plants from time to time. In the UK Monocot Nursery lists a small but interesting selection. Remarkably -and unfortunately! - the number of suppliers in South Africa is extemely limited but Cape Seed and Bulb (http://www.clivia.co.za/) offers a small selection. In contrast to bulbs, seed is rarely available - a combination of generally limited viability and exploding seed capsules makes it a rather difficult proposition - but the Flores and Watson seed lists sometimes contain interesting South American species. In summary I believe Oxalis to be a genus with great potential. The plants require little space and are generally easy to grow. They provide a beautiful flowers throughout the year in a range of colours that is difficult to match amongst the monocot geophytes. Why not try them????! Regards Robin Attrill From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Mon Nov 10 22:47:29 2003 Message-Id: <3FB05BCE.5050403@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Oxalis--TOW Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:47:26 -0600 Thanks to Robin for the introduction to Oxalis. Here, in zone 6b, we are pretty much limited to growing Oxalis in summertime if not windowsill or greenhouse gardening. I began offering them for sale this past spring, quite by accident. I've started taking special orders very early each season which allows my customer base to select from thousands of different flower bulbs, most of which will not be offered on my regular season price list. I noticed with this spring's special orders an exaggerated interest in Oxalis, so I also offered them on my regular spring list and was glad I did. When sales ended, I planted the remnants and got to enjoy some very fine displays. My favorite so far for leaf structure (ovarall, actually) is O. lasiandra with the freckled, wagon wheel leaf. The flower on O. depressa is mesmerizing, and holds my top score in the flower department so far. Photos of a number of the Oxalis I grew may be viewed here: http://www.bulbmeister.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=71&thumb=1 I have offered some of the same this fall, like O. tetraphylla (deppei) and O. triangularis (regnellii?), but others as well, like O. enneaphylla, O. adenophylla, and O. versicolor. I'm curious to grow the last mentioned potted in my winter house to compare to what I've grown so far. I'm baffled by the physiological diversity of this genus, above and below ground, and would sure like as simple an explanation as possible as to the common factors that tie them all together into one genus. > Amongst many gardeners Oxalis tends to be rather stigmatised by the > occurrence of a few weedy taxa amongst the many hundreds of species > which constitute the genus. Fortunately there are also a very large > number of desirable species which merit a place in cultivation. The > majority of these are geophytes, predominately native to Africa and > the Americas, and it is these plants that I will introduce in this > weeks TOW. -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From vikingdoc@earthlink.net Tue Nov 11 01:08:50 2003 Message-Id: <410-22003112116851820@earthlink.net> From: "Kathy Stokmanis" Subject: oxalis Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:08:51 -0800 What a great opportunity PBS provides for introduction to new bulbs. I am one of those who have avoided oxalis due to its weedy reputation. I do not have a collection and most things go into the garden so I did not want to take the chance. I think I will be experimenting more in future. Kathy S., gardening in what is supposedly Sunset zone 7, but the town is in the Sierra Nevada foothills, California, USA and rises over 1000 feet. My own observations suggest my microclimate is zone 8 or even 9, Mediterranean climate with our rainy season just starting. vikingdoc@earthlink.net From msittner@mcn.org Tue Nov 11 01:19:05 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031110212651.00dfd680@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Oxalis--TOW Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:17:28 -0800 Dear All, Thank you Robin for the great introduction. I joined the Oxalis fan club a number of years ago when Mike Mace shared offsets several years later after his wife gave him as a present the IBS collection from Michael Vassar bulbs that was offered as a fund raiser. I have also bought some from Telos Bulbs every year and traded some from other enthusiasts. I find them hard to beat because of the long bloom and the variety of colors and leaves. I love the obtusas and put a couple pictures on the Oxalis wiki page of those we saw in mass in the Little Karoo. It was dazzling. We saw so many Oxalis in bloom in South Africa this last trip which was surprising since many of the Oxalis from that country bloom so much earlier. Another one I think is really beautiful not mentioned yet is Oxalis callosa. There are pictures of it on the wiki too. Last year was my first year to grow O. goniorhiza. It is very similar to O. versicolor and very long blooming (I noted the first bloom last year was in Oct. and the last in Feb.) and a winner. Another one that has been spectacular this fall is Oxalis polyphylla v. heptaphylla MV 6396. It is pretty even when it is closed and looking at it sideways with the light shining through it is also a delight. There are pictures of it on the wiki too. I am also very fond of Oxalis luteola although two of the four I have tried to grow have never bloomed for me. The two others are very reliable. Last year when I redid two of my raised beds with Alberto's advice, I decided to plant Oxalis in two different pots in my African bed. I was curious if they would come back since I had promised myself not to replant the bed this year and most people recommend replanting Oxalis every day. Blooming today in the garden in the raised beds is one of the Oxalis luteolas. The other one was an obtusa and it has sprouted again. Below it the one blooming today. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxais_flava_pink4.jpg I do have one question. My Oxalis have been very slow to come up this fall. I planted most of them before I went to South Africa not wanting to have to do it when I returned. It has been my observation that ones that have been out of soil and sprouted come up very quickly once you have potted them up. In fact I recently received some from Uli that arrived looking a bit smashed. I think they all had roots and I believe almost all of them are now up and not showing any ill effects. Contrast that with maybe ten pots of other Oxalis that aren't showing any life and others that have only come up in the last week or two. When I reported about the talk in South Africa people were saying they weren't dormant long and would immediately start growing with moisture. Any clues what is going on? I am tempted to unpot them all next year and not replant them until I see roots. By the way it might be of interest to everyone that Oxalis is the most popular genus page we have on the wiki, having gotten more hits than any of the others. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Tue Nov 11 01:31:02 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031110222659.00d16f00@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Oxalis--TOW Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:28:43 -0800 Dear All, It's true that other Oxalis was blooming today, but in a pot. The link I meant to include of the one in the raised bed was: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis_luteola5.jpg Sorry. Mary Sue From dells@voicenet.com Tue Nov 11 07:12:40 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 48 packages in the mail Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 07:12:41 -0500 Dear All, Packages went into the mail today, Monday. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From dells@voicenet.com Tue Nov 11 07:12:47 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 49 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 07:12:42 -0500 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 49" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! SEED: From Shirley Meneice: 1. Seed of Amaryllis belladonna, pink and white From Charles Hardman: 2. Moraea marlottii (formerly Homeria) 3. Muscari armeniacum 4. Albuca sp., small yellow, good form 5. Bulbinella cauda-felis 6. Gladiolus quadrangulus, (not quadrangularis) extremely primitive, extremely rare, looks like an ixia 7. Gladiolus orchidiformis 8. Gladiolus alatus var alatus 9. Lilium pumilum, orange turk's cap flowers, may need cold or even freezing to germinate. Comes from Mongolia and Russian steppes. 10. Moraea macroscarpa 11. Gladiolus quadrangularis, red 12. Gladiolus carinatus ssp carinatus, blue 13. Gladiolus tenellus, yellow 14. Hesperantha baurii 15. Hesperantha cucullata 16. Moraea sp., violet and lavender with white spots, tiny plant 17. Veltheimia bracteata 18. Narcissus serotinus 19. Ornithogalum sp., mid-sized yellow and kelly green, great beauty 20. Romulea tetragona 21. Sparaxis hybrids from my finest collection, all colors but true blue 22. Hesperantha pauciflora 23. Zigadenus sp., possibly? (bulbs are from Peru) Thank you, Shirley and Charles !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Tue Nov 11 08:47:11 2003 Message-Id: <1ec.12eb1dbc.2ce2425b@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Crocus cancellatus cancellatus on the Wiki Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:47:07 EST IImages at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Crocus_cancellatus_cancellatus.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Crocus_cancellatus_cancellatus1.jpg Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Tue Nov 11 13:40:46 2003 Message-Id: <16c.2635ce8c.2ce28727@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Lachenalia pusilla on the Wiki Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:40:39 EST Images at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Lachenalia_pusilla1.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Lachenalia_pusilla.jpg Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From davidxvictor@mailblocks.com Tue Nov 11 14:05:03 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20031111180624.00b20e20@app4.mailblocks.com> From: David Victor Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 10, Issue 13 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:02:05 +0000 I'd like to add my thanks to Robin for this week's introduction to a favourite genus of mine: Oxalis. I've been growing them for the best part of fifteen years and have (slowly) built up a reasonable collection of them. What's more, many of the more attractive of them are flowering at this time of the year. Add to that the fact that the weather so far this Autumn has been very warm, sunny and bright, and they are flowering with me as never before! I grow a mix of mainly South African, but also South and Central American species. Apart from a few from the far South of Chile, the rest are grown in greenhouses. By far the greater majority are grown in a cold house that drops to around minus 5C or lower in the coldest part of the winter. I find that they can take a few degrees of frost without any damage. If I think that the temperate will be particularly cold, I have a further internal cover that can be pulled over them and the rest of the winter flowering bulbs in the house. I grow the succulent oxalis in a house that does not fall below freezing. Altogether there's around 90 species in the collection, quite a lot of cultivars. Around three quarters are Autumn flowering, mainly between September and Christmas. They are all grown in my standard one litre pots, in a mixture of a soil based compost and sharp grit/sand, roughly two to one. Because of the particularly good weather conditions this Autumn, a number of my plants have flowered properly for the first time and have been particularly welcome. All three of them came to me under an O. species banner or an incorrect name. Luckily, I have a copy of Salter's monograph and have been able to tentatively identify them: I don't by any means find this an easy task as I find Salter difficult to work with. However, I will use those identifications here. The first to flower was O. cathara (which came as O. species). This is one of Section Crassulae, which have large scales at the base of the petioles, such as O. flava. Also like that species, it has multiple leaflets, which are long and thin. However, its flowers are much larger than any I have ever seen on O. flave, having a corolla of some 3cms, pure white, with a pale yellow throat. A truly beautiful plant. The second was another O. species, which turned out to be O. gracilis. This is a caulescent species, with the leaves on petioles a few centimetres long and having a rather strange, flattened outline. The flowers are reminiscent of O. massoniana, both in colour and shape. The third came to me as O. massoniana and, indeed, looked rather like that species until it flowered. However, at the point, the flowers that emerged were almost identical to O. versicolor: white, with a pale pink edge to a reverse petal edge, so it appears similar to a barber's pole. Another very pretty species, which I have tentatively identified as O. heidelbergensis. Incidentally, thinking about identification, many of you will grow O. 'Ken Aslet', which has been identified under a variety of specific epithets in the past. Last year, Mike Grant, the senior taxonomist at RHS Wisley re-keyed the plant and confirmed it as O. melanostica. Best regards, David Victor From davidxvictor@mailblocks.com Tue Nov 11 14:05:12 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20031111190207.00b721a8@app4.mailblocks.com> From: David Victor Subject: Ungernia Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:03:46 +0000 Dear all, For those that might be interested in this genus, which is close to Lycoris, Josef Halda has a number of them on his seed list this year, collected in Tadjikstan. Best regards, David Victor From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Tue Nov 11 14:44:55 2003 Message-Id: <20031111194452.18406.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Too many Amaryllis photos Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:44:52 -0800 (PST) Michael, I'm glad to seee you are working with these. Are you doing any crosses with them back onto Brunsvigia spp.? These are what I would be interested in seeing more and more of. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. Soon to become www.floralarchitecture.com check it out soon 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From robin@rpattrill.freeserve.co.uk Tue Nov 11 16:28:05 2003 Message-Id: <002901c3a89a$ad4758f0$a058893e@ibmcatwpkh6omz> From: "Robin Attrill" Subject: Oxalis--TOW Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:27:56 -0000 Mary Sue et al, > > Another one I think is really beautiful not mentioned yet is Oxalis > callosa. > I agree this is a lovely species, not uncommon in cultivation but frequently labelled as Oxalis sp. I think it is the best of the later flowering species. > > I do have one question. My Oxalis have been very slow to come up this fall. > I planted most of them before I went to South Africa not wanting to have to > do it when I returned. It has been my observation that ones that have been > out of soil and sprouted come up very quickly once you have potted them up. > In fact I recently received some from Uli that arrived looking a bit > smashed. I think they all had roots and I believe almost all of them are > now up and not showing any ill effects. Contrast that with maybe ten pots > of other Oxalis that aren't showing any life and others that have only come > up in the last week or two. When I reported about the talk in South Africa > people were saying they weren't dormant long and would immediately start > growing with moisture. Any clues what is going on? I am tempted to unpot > them all next year and not replant them until I see roots. > In addition to moisture I suspect that lowering temperatures are also important for the winter growers. For example I've notice that pots of O. versicolor, watered at the same time in autumn, come into growth much more quickly if placed in a shady location out of doors relative to those in the greenhouse. As you point out bulbs of many species will produce roots and shoots out of soil and can then be potted up as normal. I have not, however, come across any species where this treatment actually confers a positive benefit. In general they are remarkably resilient to robust treatment, both in and out of active growth. In addition they are amongst the easiest of plants with a dormant period in their annual cycle to transfer between the northern and southern growth cycles - they seem to 'sort themselves out' in about 18 months. From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Nov 11 16:35:29 2003 Message-Id: <3FB15621.8070009@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: overwintering colocasias Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:35:29 -0500 I have a number of alocasias and colocasias that I would like to over winter. I am in northern NJ any suggestions as to a reliable method. I have over wintered cannas and dahlia tubers with success--same treatment? Arnold New Jersey From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Tue Nov 11 17:44:05 2003 Message-Id: <1AJhEs-2JZB8C0@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: TOW Oxalis Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 23:43:58 +0100 Dear All, Thanks to Robin for the very good introduction to the genus Oxalis. Being an Oxalis enthusiast for many years I like to see the genus getting much wider attention now, there is also an Oxalis group on Yahoo. There are also some very nice summer growing Oxalis which are easier to grow to their full beauty in frosty climates. I find the winter growers do not develop to their full potential under glass even in the brightest position because we have so very short days and often overcast skies at this time of the year in northern Europe. There are some summer growers which I will distribute in winter when they are fully dormant, some may even be hardy but then this may cause the potential risk of them becoming weeds. There is a particularly nice tall growing plant form Ecuador (which I traded with nothing but an accession No) with mauve pink flowers with very dark centres in umbels high above the leaves, it may even bloom year round when kept in the appropriate climate. It needed a few years to develop to its full beauty, I suspect that some Oxalis do NOT like to be transplanted every year, most do not mind, though. There is also Oxalis articulata which forms finger-like tuberous stems above ground. it produces mounds of fresh green leaves almost invisible under masses of pink flowers, a nice edging plant and never a weed. This one definetely flowers all year in suitable conditions and is widespread in mild European gardens and is perhaps hardier than expected. There are always a few pots in my Oxalis collection that do not show any growth the odd year. I never throw these away as Oxalis can stay dormant for many years without dying, they often come from extremely arid areas where is does not rain for a very long time and are simply not used to grow every year, I suspect. However, there may also be other reasons for Oxalis not growing........ I now use the wire nesh system to prevent mice from eating the bulbs out of the pots, but I had to learn the hard way...... before I used sqare pieces of not too fine wire mesh cut to fit firmly into the pots I lost a certain number of Oxalis to mice. The Wiki pages on Oxalis are very nice and I was able to identify some of the plants I grow (but having doubts about O. incarnata, there is nothing red about it as the name implies) O "incarnata" is a very nice plant in a hanging basket with masses of scented flowers in spring in my greenhouse. The bulbils sprout wherever they fall onto other pots but so far it has not become a weed with me. But I have seen a mediterranean garden where it formes a solid mat on many beds...... Frost immediately kills the whole plant , so be careful in frost free climates. Some of the nicest Oxalis are not weeds at all but are painfully slow to increase. For substrate I use equal parts of perlite, seramis and a peat based commercial potting compost. This is a low weight substrate which is essential as the pots are in trays on a not too solid shelf under the grenhouse roof. It is also well aerated holds water and drains fast at the same time but the ingredients are not cheap. They get plenty of water while in growth and MUST NOT dry then and also get 2 or 3 waterings with ordinary strength liquid balanced fertilizer. When the greenhouse gets warm in spring dormancy begins. This can be retarded for better bulb size when the trays are moved into the open garden but care must be taken to avoid late frost. Once dormant it is important to keep them totally dry AND WARM, heat seems to stimulate bud formation. The internal biological clock of the plants is then set on again when weather cools in late summer and sprouting begins. All the best, greetings from Germany, Uli From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Nov 11 18:32:27 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031111145335.00b82360@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Oregon get-together Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:57:58 -0800 We are thinking of having a bulb-oriented get-together sometime during the Western Winter Study Weekend of the North American Rock Garden Society, which is to be held in Eugene, Oregon, the first weekend of March 2004. Anyone interested should contact me and I'll let you know the time and place later. You need not be a member of PBS and/or NARGS to attend. People who are not registered at the study weekend would also be welcome, but let me take this opportunity to encourage you to attend it too -- the theme has to do with winter protection and growing plants beyond their expected climatic limits. A major plant sale is a feature of all western winter study weekends. For registration information, see and click on the Meetings page. Jane McGary 503-630-3339 janemcgary@earthlink.net From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Nov 11 18:32:29 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031111145809.00b79b68@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Lost and found Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:05:47 -0800 It's 10 pm -- do you know where all your bulbs are? I just had one of those experiences suffered, probably, by everybody who grows a lot of bulbs: I found a bucket of bulbs I had set aside to plant and forgotten. These were cast-offs from my repotting operation in midsummer and had been sitting under my potting table, outdoors, in an uncovered plastic bucket, through temperatures ranging from 90 to 25 F, with no moisture except fog and splashes of rain, for over 3 months. I wouldn't have noticed them except that Crocus nudiflorus reached out with its huge purple flowers and caught my eye. To my surprise, the heap of crocuses, frits, narcissi, and others had formed a mass of roots in the bottom of the bucket and most of them seemed to be in a condition at least as good as what I've seen in commercial bulbs on sale in some garden centers. I disentangled them carefully and planted them here and there in the rock garden, for whatever they still have in them after this dreadful experience. I suppose it was being so crowded that saved most of them from freezing during our recent cold snap. So look under your potting bench before it gets any later! Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From Theladygardens@aol.com Tue Nov 11 19:17:02 2003 Message-Id: <62.373fd110.2ce2d5f6@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Lost and found Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:16:54 EST Got a chuckle out of your experience. My well meaning husband who can't stand clutter (read pots sitting around everywhere) will, correction, used to, empty pots that look empty to him and store the pot in the shed. I have lost a few treasures that way. I once found a beautiful haemanthus very out of place beside the driveway, uprooted, completely exposed and blooming. It was one he had dumped out. Most I am not fortunate enough to find. Carolyn From msittner@mcn.org Tue Nov 11 19:59:48 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031111165109.00df2c00@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Lost and found Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:58:03 -0800 Dear Jane, Your story and Uli's about the lost Oxalis reminds me of the sad tale of a bulb enthusiast in South Africa. She was potting up bulbs and got distracted and didn't finish and left out the bulbs over night. The mice found them and then decided to investigate some of the other pots which they had not done previously. She lost some of her most favorite bulbs, some very rare that she couldn't replace. I keep worrying that one of these days our resident squirrel is going to realize what gourmet treats await him/her. So far pine cones seem to be the food of choice. And the dog does do squirrel patrol when she is out but I don't know if this is much of a deterrent. Here's hoping your lost bulbs surprise you in the rock garden in the spring and bloom. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Tue Nov 11 21:04:47 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031111175623.00ce5620@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Bulbinella on wiki Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:02:27 -0800 Dear All, We saw a number of Bulbinellas on our trip to South Africa, but weren't able to figure them out as the field guides we had with us were inadequate and we didn't make notes of the right features to figure out later. We passed an area that had been burned near the Hex River pass and there were a lot of interesting things in this spot blooming in the blackened soil. This one could be a subspecies of B. latifolia (ssp. denticulata), but I am just guessing on that since it would bloom when we saw it bloom and grows in that location. According to the key in the Color Encyclopedia we would have needed to look at the leaves, sheathing fibers, and roots to be sure. The pinkish tinge in the background is oxalis. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Bulbinella_sp.HexR.jpg Mary Sue From eagle85@flash.net Wed Nov 12 00:13:58 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Lost and found Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:02:34 -0800 Mary Sue IttnerDoug Westfall msittner@mcn.org1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Dear Jane, > > Your story and Uli's about the lost Oxalis reminds me of the sad tale of a > bulb enthusiast in South Africa. She was potting up bulbs and got > distracted and didn't finish and left out the bulbs over night. The mice > found them and then decided to investigate some of the other pots which > they had not done previously. She lost some of her most favorite bulbs, > some very rare that she couldn't replace. I keep worrying that one of these > days our resident squirrel is going to realize what gourmet treats await > him/her. So far pine cones seem to be the food of choice. And the dog does > do squirrel patrol when she is out but I don't know if this is much of a > deterrent. > > Here's hoping your lost bulbs surprise you in the rock garden in the spring > and bloom. > Mary Sue, Place chicken wire over those bulbs with a covering of soil over the top so that it does not show. That is what we have to do at our place in the Sequoia Forest. It keeps out the squirres and the raccoons. The holes in the chicken wire are big enough for the leaves and the flowers to grow through. After a couple of years, the critters seem to give up. Doug From mikemace@worldnet.att.net Wed Nov 12 02:01:54 2003 Message-Id: <001801c3a8ed$b0aab980$8205510c@d1fqn01> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Oxalis Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 23:22:08 -0800 A few thoughts on Oxalis (and my apologies to those of you who have seen my postings on this topic in the past): --I have tried the South American species here, but they need careful attention to water in my summer-dry climate, so I've given up on them. Beautiful flowers, but too much work to maintain (especially when I was having so much fun with the South Africans). --I was lucky enough to get one of the Michael Vassar Oxalis distributions several years ago, and they have grown pretty well ever since. I have probably lost about six of the 40 varieties in the collection, which is a much higher success rate than I've had with most other genera. The bulbs are growing in 8-inch plastic pots, in a mix of 50% perlite and 50% peat, with a generous handful of bulb fertilizer per pot. The bulbs are happiest if watering starts in August; some of them sprout at that time regardless of the weather. They grow throughout the winter, some blooming in early autumn and others not blooming until late spring. In summer they are completely, 100%, bone dry, no moisture at all, exposed to about 50% sun because I have too many pots and am too lazy to move them under cover. They don't seem to mind this awful treatment at all -- one of the many reasons why I like them. --They seem happier (bloom better and make more offsets) when repotted every other year. Every third years is too long for some of them, and they start to dwindle. --They do not like freezing. Some species lose their leaves, some are less damaged. I was afraid that I had lost a lot of them one year when the tops of the pots froze hard for several days, but the plants generally recovered. I think it was a close call, though. --Some species offset a lot, and send little corms all over the pot. Some make a lot of offsets that cluster together. And some don't seem to make offsets at all. Because of the tendency of some of them to send around offsets, I would not grow them in a plunge bed. But definitely you should not avoid them -- they are, as a group, much less aggressive than (for example) some of the Romuleas that are trying to take over my entire collection. And let's not even talk about certain Alliums... --They don't set seeds. I think I have seen one seed pod in the last five years. I don't know if they are just sterile, or they are not getting the right pollinator. I suspect the latter, and one of these days I'll try some pollination experiments with a paint brush. Anyway, because there are not any seeds, they do not spread much in the garden. I took some of my most vigorously offsetting selections, and planted them among some rocks next to a path. They continue to come up every year, but they have not spread anywhere else, even though there is open ground next to them. If anything, they are very slowly dwindling. I think these things are generally very safe in the garden, at least here in my part of California. --Rodents *love* to eat them. This may be one reason why they don't spread. In the first years I grew these bulbs, rats or mice dug into many of the pots and almost cleaned them out. I finally had to resort to putting a layer of half-inch chicken wire in every pot, under the top inch of soil. This works quite well for me, although you have to cut the piece of chicken wire wider than the pot, and then cram it into place so it's firmly caught. Otherwise the rodents will find a way to pull it out of the way. --Nobody ever seems to talk about the interesting corms of many Oxalis. My favorites, O. obtusa, have a corm that's shaped like a wrinkled spindle -- tapered to a sharp point at both ends, dark brown or black, covered in wrinkles, and very hard. It's a wicked looking little thing, but also very distinctive. On the other hand, one of my other favorites, Oxalis massoniana, surrounds itself with dense tufts of fibers that look like tiny wood shavings. Presumably this protects them in some way. --One of my favorites is one I know only as MV 4991 (that is a Michael Vassar collection number). It's a tiny tuft of foliage, maybe half an inch high and an inch or two wide, topped with big white flowers with yellow throats. If it grew in the Himalayas, alpine enthusiasts would fall all over themselves to create entire scree gardens for it, writing long articles for the AGS Bulletin on its almost-impossible culture and elusive beauty. Instead, this thing grows in the same old plastic pots as everything else, gets cooked bone dry in the summer, and blooms reliably every year. Who needs alpines when you have Oxalis? --There appear to be many other interesting species of Oxalis, but I've never seen them available. For example, Barbara Jeppe's "Spring and Winter Flowering Bulbs of the Cape" has paintings of beauties like O. tenuifolia (long tufted stems with white flowers on top), O. helicoides (long spindly stems with red flowers), O. convexula (looks like another alpine cushion plant, with big salmon-red flowers), O. ciliaris (looks like an Oxalis palm tree, with big pink flowers on top), and O. orthopoda (looks like a tiny telephone pole covered in Oxalis leaves, with a white flower shooting out of the top). Where can we find these things? Mike San Jose, CA (zone 9, min temp 20F) From ajbroome@xtra.co.nz Wed Nov 12 04:33:54 2003 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.20031112093409.00c465cc@pop3.xtra.co.nz> From: Andrew Broome Subject: Oxalis--TOW Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:34:09 +1300 Uli said... > ... there is also an Oxalis group on Yahoo Thanks for the plug. New members are always welcome, see my web page at http://www.oxalis.50megs.com or contact me for info. >There is also Oxalis articulata ... never a weed. O. articulata is certainly one of the weed species in New Zealand (along with O. pes-caprae, O. corniculata, O. incarnata and a plant I think is probably O. compressa). It's not as widespread here as the other species, with O. pes-caprae and especially the freely seeding O. corniculata forms being the most invasive and therefore the most despised by NZ gardeners. > This one definetely flowers all year in suitable conditions and is widespread > in mild European gardens and is perhaps hardier than expected. Here it flowers in spring (ie now) and is rarely seen at other times. It seems to go dormant at the first sign of drought. > ... having doubts about O. incarnata, there is nothing red about it as the name > implies) ... Salter says O. incarnata has white or pale lilac flowers, this matches the one I see flowering freely in shady places here at the moment. > ... with masses of scented flowers ... I've never noticed an odour with this species, I must investigate further. Mike said... >--They don't set seeds. I think I have seen one seed pod in the last five >years. I don't know if they are just sterile, or they are not getting the >right pollinator. Some of the reason that Oxalis don't set seed is down to basic problems due to the tristylous nature of many of the species. I've got a couple of O. hirta forms and have seen a seed pod (but was too slow to collect the seed), maybe next year? Anyway, I'm looking forward to more discussion on my favourite bulb genus. :) Andrew. From dells@voicenet.com Wed Nov 12 06:54:57 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Growth cycles for Pacific BX 49 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 06:54:50 -0500 Alberto has kindly supplied us with information on the cycles for BX 49: SEED: From Shirley Meneice: 1. Seed of Amaryllis belladonna, pink and white (W) From Charles Hardman: 2. Moraea marlottii (formerly Homeria) (W) 3. Muscari armeniacum (W) 4. Albuca sp., small yellow, good form (?) 5. Bulbinella cauda-felis (W) 6. Gladiolus quadrangulus, (not quadrangularis) extremely primitive, extremely rare, looks like an ixia (W) 7. Gladiolus orchidiflorus (W) 8. Gladiolus alatus var alatus (W) 9. Lilium pumilum, orange turk's cap flowers, may need cold or even freezing to germinate. Comes from Mongolia and Russian steppes. (S) 10. Moraea macrocarpa (W) 11. Gladiolus quadrangularis, red (W) 12. Gladiolus carinatus ssp carinatus, blue (W) 13. Gladiolus tenellus, yellow (W) 14. Hesperantha baurii (S) 15. Hesperantha cucullata (W) 16. Moraea sp., violet and lavender with white spots, tiny plant (W) 17. Veltheimia bracteata (W) 18. Narcissus serotinus (W) 19. Ornithogalum sp., mid-sized yellow and kelly green, great beauty (W) 20. Romulea tetragona (W) 21. Sparaxis hybrids from my finest collection, all colors but true blue (W) 22. Hesperantha pauciflora (W) 23. Zigadenus sp., possibly? (bulbs are from Peru) (S) Thank you, Alberto !! From john@johnlonsdale.net Wed Nov 12 08:14:08 2003 Message-Id: <20031112131408.0075520013@happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: Oregon get-together Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:13:50 -0500 Dear Jane, As you know I'm giving a couple of talks at the upcoming WWSW and I'd love to participate in your bulb get-together. I'm flying in on the 5th March(Friday) and out on Sunday 7th - too much to do and not enough time to do it! All the best, J. Dr John T Lonsdale, 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jane McGary Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 5:58 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Oregon get-together We are thinking of having a bulb-oriented get-together sometime during the Western Winter Study Weekend of the North American Rock Garden Society, which is to be held in Eugene, Oregon, the first weekend of March 2004. Anyone interested should contact me and I'll let you know the time and place later. You need not be a member of PBS and/or NARGS to attend. People who are not registered at the study weekend would also be welcome, but let me take this opportunity to encourage you to attend it too -- the theme has to do with winter protection and growing plants beyond their expected climatic limits. A major plant sale is a feature of all western winter study weekends. For registration information, see and click on the Meetings page. Jane McGary 503-630-3339 janemcgary@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Nov 12 09:22:08 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Lost and found Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:11:38 -0600 Dear Jane; Very brave of you to admit to loosing a bucket o' bulbs. I tend to put odds and ends aside and then months later rediscover them. Oops. Tall bearded iris are notoriously 'forgiving' in this regard. Although I DID NOT do this, a friend who moved recalls finding a box of iris rhizomes packed in newspapers in the garage 2 years after the move!!. They were planted and the majority still managed to grow and bloom eventually. The power of survival. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From dejager@bulbargence.com Wed Nov 12 09:38:19 2003 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: TOW Oxalis Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:32:51 +0100 le 11/11/03 23:43, Johannes-Ulrich Urban à 320083817243-0001@t-online.de a écrit : > There is also Oxalis articulata which forms finger-like tuberous stems above > ground. it produces mounds of fresh green leaves almost invisible under masses > of pink flowers, a nice edging plant and never a weed. This one definetely > flowers all year in suitable conditions and is widespread in mild European > gardens and is perhaps hardier than expected. Dear Uli, This description fits in exactly with what I call here O crassipus. It has been in flower September-Octobre but his main season is March-April. It has no bulbs but rather "knobly" rootstocks. A very good garden plant here and not at all weedy. Have a look at the pictures in the Oxalis section in our website http://www.bulbargence.com/ . Let me know please if I got the name wrong. The Oxalis in flowr here: . O masoniorum, flava, hirta (sp and Gothemburg) , Kind regards Lauw de Jager www.bulbargence.com South of France (zone 8 Olivier) From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Wed Nov 12 09:49:25 2003 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476B97598@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Lost and found Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:49:33 -0600 Hi Jane: Confessions from the harried gardener: Actually I found some missing bulbs from last fall a couple of weeks ago in a paper sack that I thought was empty. Some of the Narcissus may make it and surprisingly many of the minor bulbs still seemed to be in relatively good condition. The biggest surprise were the Geranium tuberosum that had budded. I was so disappointed by my oversight that I vowed not to purchase any bulbs this fall until those from last year were in the ground. So far I haven't fallen off the wagon but then not all of the orphans have been planted either. I did 'rescue' a large container of approximately 300 Zephyranthes candida from the compost pile - I rationalized that because money had not changed hands ... The family record belongs to my son however. He purchased some split corona daffs during a visit to Botanica in Witchita, Kansas and didn't discover them until 3 years later - they got misplaced during the move from Missouri to Illinois. A couple of them survived and have established a nice clump. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org From onager@midtown.net Wed Nov 12 11:21:47 2003 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20031112081716.01c80d58@pop3.midtown.net> From: Joyce Miller Subject: Lost and found Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:20:00 -0800 My story is one of Lycoris radiata. A friend brought some he dug from his parents yard. Even knowing they do not like to be bare, I left them in the container for probably 6-9 months. This spring I finally planted them thinking I would never see them again. Several have popped up through the cedar mulch under the tree. Kind regards, Joyce Miller Joyce E. Miller mailto:onager@midtown.net Zone USDA 9A Summer highs 100+degrees F for several to many days. Winter lows 27 degrees F From angelopalm69@inwind.it Wed Nov 12 14:35:46 2003 Message-Id: <000b01c3a953$d3d5f4e0$6bae623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Oxalis -TOW Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:33:18 +0100 I must admit I have a bit of reluctance to consider any Oxalis a plant worth to grow, probably because I am so scared from the invasion of several fields, especially olive trees, with Oxalis pes caprae, that is spreading all over the region. I read it doesn't set seed here, so I wonder how it spreads so fast. But there is another species, which I don't know what it is, with deep pink flowers, which is not invasive and flowers almost all year around, present in many old gardens and even the cemetery here. It has curious tubers which grows the new one on the top on the old one, making a kind of sausage ! Angelo Porcelli Italy From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Wed Nov 12 17:32:48 2003 Message-Id: <1AK3XT-1ZvKpE0@fwd01.sul.t-online.com> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: Oxalis articulata/crassipes Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:32:39 +0100 Dear Andrew, Dear Lauw, When I read Andrew's notes about O. articulata I immediately thought he is writing about a different species than me and the explanation came with Lauw's note. I am not a botanist and do rely on the names given to my by the supplier but I think that O. crassipes is the plant I meant. It also makes sense as its rhizomes are 'thick feet' as the species name tells. For flowering time it DOES flower with me all summer interrupted only by lack of fertilizer or very bad treatment, I like to use it as ground cover on the surface of very large tubs and it flowers right through winter in the greenhouse if it is barely bright enough and warm enough. Is it perhaps stopped flowering by higher summer temperatures than I have here in our average German summer? I truly cannot imagine this plant being a weed as it has no bulbs or bulbili, the rhizomes may break off and root somewhere else but this will be a slowish process. But one never knows as plants do behave differently in different ecosystems. Regards, Uli From eagle85@flash.net Wed Nov 12 17:55:23 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Veltheimia deasii added to the WIKI Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:43:19 -0800 This bulb is far more"petite" than the others that I have seen. While the other one that I have lends credibliity to the claim that "deasii" is just a form of V. capensis, THIS ONE IS DIFFERENT. Doug Westfall http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Veltheimia%20deasii.jpg From robin@rpattrill.freeserve.co.uk Wed Nov 12 18:21:56 2003 Message-Id: <002201c3a973$c18b2240$7bf6883e@ibmcatwpkh6omz> From: "Robin Attrill" Subject: TOW Oxalis - responses to various postings Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:21:49 -0000 All, I have a few comments on various postings, summarised below. regards Robin Uli wrote....... There is a particularly nice tall growing plant > form Ecuador (which I traded with nothing but an accession No) with mauve pink > flowers with very dark centres in umbels high above the leaves, it may even > bloom year round when kept in the appropriate climate. It needed a few years to > develop to its full beauty, I suspect that some Oxalis do NOT like to be > transplanted every year, most do not mind, though. > I presume this could be the plant listed as Oxalis Sp.-Rcb Eq-V-2 in the Oxalis listing of the Cotswold Garden Flowers website at http://www.cgf.net/list.html Sadly they no longer appear to sell it. > There is also Oxalis articulata which forms finger-like tuberous stems above > ground. it produces mounds of fresh green leaves almost invisible under masses > of pink flowers, a nice edging plant and never a weed. This one definetely > flowers all year in suitable conditions and is widespread in mild European > gardens and is perhaps hardier than expected. > O. articulata/crassipes can be weedy in the UK - it is particularly problematic if it colonises mown grassland where mowing operations spread fragments which can form new plants. It is generally not a problem in a garden context. > The Wiki pages on Oxalis are very nice and I was able to identify some of the > plants I grow (but having doubts about O. incarnata, there is nothing red about > it as the name implies) O "incarnata" Under certain conditions the stems are reddish > Some of the nicest Oxalis are not weeds at all but are painfully slow to > increase. In my experience this is true of most plant genera!!! Dave Victor wrote........ >They are all grown in my standard one litre pots, >in a mixture of a soil based compost and sharp grit/sand, roughly two to one. I use the same mix but mostly smaller pots, mostly 9cm squares due to very limited space. These are adequate for all but the largest species. >The second was another O. species, which turned out to be O. >gracilis. O. gracilis, or something very similar, is sometimes sold in commerce as O. karroica, a name which I have not found in the standard Oxalis literature or IPNI. It is a lovely plant. >The third came to me as O. massoniana and, indeed, looked rather like that >species until it flowered. However, at the point, the flowers that emerged >were almost identical to O. versicolor: white, with a pale pink edge to a >reverse petal edge, so it appears similar to a barber's pole. Another very >pretty species, which I have tentatively identified as O. heidelbergensis. O tenuifolia is rather similar >Incidentally, thinking about identification, many of you will grow O. 'Ken >Aslet', which has been identified under a variety of specific epithets in >the past. Last year, Mike Grant, the senior taxonomist at RHS Wisley >re-keyed the plant and confirmed it as O. melanostica. I've held this view for many years - the spelling is actually melanosticta Mike Mace wrote..... >There appear to be many other interesting species of Oxalis, but I've >never seen them available. For example, Barbara Jeppe's "Spring and Winter >Flowering Bulbs of the Cape" has paintings of beauties like O. tenuifolia >(long tufted stems with white flowers on top), O. helicoides (long spindly >stems with red flowers), O. convexula (looks like another alpine cushion >plant, with big salmon-red flowers), O. ciliaris (looks like an Oxalis palm >tree, with big pink flowers on top), and O. orthopoda (looks like a tiny >telephone pole covered in Oxalis leaves, with a white flower shooting out of >the top). Where can we find these things? Many are in cultivation - they have just not been commercialised. O convexula is listed by Telos. Ensuring they grow in the habit found in nature, as illustrated in the Jeppe book, is often difficult, particularly in northern climes. Supplementary artificial light may assist. From totototo@mail.pacificcoast.net Sun Nov 9 18:46:52 2003 Message-Id: <200311092346.hA9NkeH2026413@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: More fall crocuses Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:49:16 -800 On 8 Nov 03 at 19:12, Jane McGary wrote: > These crocuses are potted in the same mix I use for almost > everything: 2 parts coarse, sharp "upriver" sand, one part ground > horticultural (white) pumice, and one part forest humus from my > woods. With all due respect, the ingredients in this recipe are almost as mysterious as the "Cornish silver sand" called for by the original John Innes potting formulation. Tell us all a little more about your coarse, sharp upriver sand. What kind of minerals are in it? Which river? (Some of us *do* travel through Oregon, you know.) And the pumice: what screen mesh would you use for this? We can get bags of a whitish horticultural pumice here (probably imported from Oregon in bulk and repackaged), but I'd be interested to know how coarse or fine the stuff is that you use. And as for the forest humus: what species contribute to it? Inquiring minds want to know; you seem to have considerable success with bulbs that are far from easy and we're all jealous as all get out. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada "To co-work is human, to cow-ork, bovine." From awilson@avonia.com Wed Nov 12 20:43:59 2003 Message-Id: <000001c3a987$da9e6a80$3201a8c0@andrew> From: "awilson" Subject: Oxalis - TOW Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:45:44 -0800 Alerted to the fact that this group was discussing Oxalis I could not resist from peeking and adding a few words of my own. Much has been said about their free spreading habits that are really the bad habits of just a handful of species and there is no need to further belabor that point. But there are three species in bloom here just now that share common traits - all are beautifully foliaged, all have lovely flowers, all are in bloom despite the rain that fell on them last night. And all seem to be able to cope with the depradations of birds and rodents. Indeed, they have increased modestly in number just because of those attacks. No, they are not invasive. They do not seed here. It is just that when a bird of animal scratches pots and digs out bulbs they seem to avoid these three species and, in fact the bulbs (corms) sometimes get kicked into adjacent pots. As a result, all three species now occupy a relatively well represented portion of my collection. Which species are these? O heptaphylla, O. pentaphylla and O. polyphylla. They form a rather unusual group, but a rather choice one. All three have "phylla" appended because, when named, it was the unique, multiply dissected, ferny leaf structure that provided the epithet (7, 5 and many, respectively). What I like about them is that I can distribute them among other areas of my benches where they provide floral elegance and foliage structure that is often missing from the irids and the amaryllids. At present, Stumarias and Hesseas are in bloom. But they do look somewhat bedraggled, despite their delightful blooms, These plentiful oxalids enhance the overall appearance on the bench. And they will continue to do that even when they have stopped flowering, probably by Christmas unless we get more hot weather before then. I have no idea why these three species have benefitted from the pillaging done by the local fauna. Their corms are smaller than most but I have lost many beautiful species with small corms. Maybe, they just don't taste as good. Andrew San Diego, California From Antennaria@aol.com Wed Nov 12 22:58:16 2003 Message-Id: <1d8.1448e902.2ce45b53@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Allium hybrids Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:58:11 EST "Jamie" jamievande@freenet.de wrote: >Although I've tried with the few "ball" type >Alliums, such as A. giganteum, A. jesdianum, >A. christoffii, A. schubertii and their possible >hybrids (Lucille Ball, Globemaster, hollandicum, >etc), I've never managed to set seed through >intrageneric pollination. I've found all the named >cultivars I have to be sterile. Of course, this is >a limited group! >I remember a wonderful article in the IBS BULBS >on A. flavum cultivars. That was my article entitled "The rainbow color genesis of Allium flavum ssp. tauricum" that appeared in IBS BULBS earlier this year. >Is anyone working with Allium? I have selected a good number of Allium hybrids, mostly of the rhizomatous types. I have also been selecting color forms of Allium flavum ssp. tauricum for quite a while, resulting in the huge color range which was the subject of my aforementioned article. While the "big ball" type of allium (section Melanocrommyum) are interesting and showy, they are actually not as useful in the garden as those species that grow all season long with handsome foliage clumps, such as the Rhizirideum section of the genus (those with bulbs attached to rhizomes). There is tremendous untapped potential in developing superior hybrids of summer/fall growing alliums. I have previously posted a number of Allium hybrid pictures to the PBS wiki. Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From mikemace@worldnet.att.net Wed Nov 12 23:43:18 2003 Message-Id: <000c01c3a9a3$80531dc0$8c0b510c@d1fqn01> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Too many Amaryllis photos Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:03:37 -0800 John I. asked: >Are you doing any crosses with them back onto Brunsvigia spp.? These are what I would be interested in seeing more >and more of. I'd make the crosses if I had any blooming-size Brunsvigias. Unfortunately, I can't afford to send 85 pounds plus postage to Paul Christian to get some ;-) So I'll have to wait another 10 years for the seedlings I'm growing. In the meantime, my Brunsvigia crossing experience has been limited to making a bunch of crosses with some B. josephinae pollen sent me last year. Several of those crosses produced intriguing little white seeds that were already sprouting in the pod. I'm told that's a very good sign. We'll see what happens. If anyone wants to trade pollen of amaryllids, let me know privately. I have also been trying some crosses with various Nerine sarniensis cultivars. Very little success so far, although I may have achieved a few using the Nerine as the seed parent. Won't know until they bloom. What I'm trying for is something that combines the red of N. sarniensis with the size and durability of Amaryllis. Mike San Jose, CA (zone 9, min temp 20F) From msittner@mcn.org Thu Nov 13 01:53:42 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031112215636.00b4ec50@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Oxalis--TOW Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:51:05 -0800 Dear All, I am enjoying all the participation in the topic of the week and appreciate Robin's moderating as well. One of the things that frustrates me about this genus is all the host of names that people mention. I always want to know where that plant comes from, what kind of soils is it found in, when does it get rainfall in nature, and when does it bloom. I remembered that earlier on the Oxalis group that David Victor told about a checklist to solve that problem. "The author is Richard Clifton, who is the Editor for the Geraniaceae Group. The checklist was produced three years ago and was based on a review of the Index Kewensis, Salter's monograph of South African Oxalis and various flora. It covers the naming of virtually all species of Oxalis and their authorities and limited descriptive material. There is also a wide critique of O. corniculata. The checklist can be obtained from Richard's home address which is 7 Crabble Road, Dover, Kent, England, CT17 0QD. He is not on e-mail. The checklist cost 15 UK pounds. Post and packing is in addition and will cost two pounds for surface mail and more for air mail. Richard cannot accept credit cards. Cheques are a problem because of exchange costs, unless purchased locally and drawn on a correspondent UK bank. Probably cash is best. " Andrew Broome found this resource as a way to obtain it: http://www.nhbs.com/xbscripts/bkfsrch?search=126428 Does this checklist tell where each of the species is from or time of bloom? I've looked at the Kew list before when I have been puzzled about a name and often all that was listed was the name of the plant and the authority and I am afraid I wanted more information than that. For instance I was curious about the origin of the plant that Lauw and Uli were talking about. It isn't in any of my references but I found in one of my saved references that Oxalis crassipes was a plant from Argentina that had become popular in the Gulf south of the USA where it bloomed in spring and sometimes again in fall. One thing that strikes me is that a lot of people are not growing Oxalis in the mix you usually hear associated with it. I looked up what I could find from Micael Vassar and found this: "The potting mix for Oxalis depends on what kind of Oxalis you are planting. I find that the winter growing species from the Western Cape area of South Africa (now correctly the Southern Cape I think) all do best planted in a very poor mix with little or no organic material. In habitat they almost all grow in pure decomposed sandstone. For these winter growing species I use 50% agricultural pumice, 40% washed builder's sand and 10% leaf mould (or less). A mix of pumice and washed builder's sand would be adequate without any organics at all. I fertilize with a 15-30-15 fertilizer at 1/4 strength about once a month. I don't like perlite because of the dust and because it floats to the top in a planting mix. The summer growing African species need a richer mix and can have up to 25% organic material. They tend to have a longer growing season (some are even evergreen). Oxalis species from Central America and Mexico (mostly rhizomatous) are mostly evergreen and also do best in a richer planting mix. I plant all bulbs one inch (2.5cm) deep. Bulbs adjust themselves in the planting mix to the correct depth. It is impossible to distinguish the top from the bottom of some Oxalis bulbs so plant them sideways-always works well. I find that Oxalis grow, flower, and produce replacement bulbs better if grown on the hard side." As I read on I found the following note from Will Ashburner: "I do the opposite to Mike with regards planting mix. Mine is totally organic (shredded composted pine bark and coco peat)with an air fill porosity of 20% and full range of nutrients. They multiply like rabbits and flower etc. I have never seen them in the wild so they may be out of character and too lush, but ignorance is bliss." It sounds like Oxalis are very flexible. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Thu Nov 13 03:08:03 2003 Message-Id: <000901c3a9bc$5c66e9a0$7e89eb50@davidfen> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Amaryllis with Nerine + Sanders Nursery Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:01:36 -0000 Hi Michael and all, >>>>>I have also been trying some crosses with various Nerine sarniensis cultivars. Very little success so far, although I may have achieved a few using the Nerine as the seed parent. Won't know until they bloom. The same has happened here this year but with Nerine bowdenii 'E. B. Anderson'. The seeds look good but I'll have to see if they'll germinate. Does anyone know anything about Sanders and Sons Nursery ? Presumably an old UK nursery, and one that was going at the turn of the previous century, around the 1900s. I've just received an Amaryllis belladonna 'Sanders Form' with provenance dating back to 1906, and to this nursery, so obviously I'd like to find out a little more about them. Best Wishes, Dave David Fenwick NCCPG National Plant Heritage Collections of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens Estover Plymouth Devon England PL6 8TW Websites www.theafricangarden.com www.crocosmiaheritage.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 03/11/03 From roberth6@mac.com Thu Nov 13 05:38:54 2003 Message-Id: <42C6D547-15C5-11D8-9F72-0003938EDBFA@mac.com> From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Triteleia lemmonae Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:36:38 +1100 Hi all, I have just posted some images of Triteleia lemmonae to the wiki . It is flowering in my garden at present. I raised it from seed purchased from Southwest Native Seeds and have grown it for a number of years , always in a pot until I put some in a new raised be I constructed last summer. The "in ground" plants are flowering later than those in pots but are looking much better and are featured in the images. Mary Sue wrote the following about T lemmonae in her very comprehensive article. "Triteleia lemmonae is a species that is endemic to Arizona where it grows in sparse pine woodland at elevations between 5000 and 7000 feet (1524-2134 meters). It has bright yellow flowers fading purplish with arrowhead-shaped anthers." One of the images illustrates the "arrowheads." http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Triteleia Cheers, Rob in Tasmania From dejager@bulbargence.com Thu Nov 13 11:07:28 2003 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Oxalis--TOW Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:06:45 +0100 Andrew and all, Oxalis polyphylla var heptaphylla came here via Mary Sue from Michel Vassar and is just about to flower. It has palmate ( or digital ?) leaves with very fine lobes. There are other Oxalis with equally deorative leaves like the O palmifrons (still waiting to see the flowers but very decorative leaves) O flava (including a pink form with only two very wide lobes). Four years ago you gave me a yellow Oxalis, which after a few years sulking in its new environment is now doing well and is flowering now with dainty small yellow flowers. Temperorary it was identified as being O lobata but I am not very sure of it. Your picture of this plant is in our website. http://www.bulbargence.com. Can you confirm that it the correct name now? Kin regards Lauw de Jager South of France (zone 8 Olivier) From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Nov 13 20:06:12 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031113095050.00b8bc38@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: References Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:53:34 -0800 Mary Sue has alerted people to a checklist of Oxalis available from a private source in England. When items like this come to our attention, it would be good to add them to the introductory paragraphs in the "Photographs and Information" section of the PBS wiki, under the appropriate genus. Doing this is not as complicated as adding a photograph. You just call up the genus page, click "Edit" at the bottom of the page, type in your information at the proper spot, then click "Save" at the bottom of the page. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From mysticgardn@yahoo.com Thu Nov 13 13:05:11 2003 Message-Id: <20031113180508.76790.qmail@web40503.mail.yahoo.com> From: Ann Marie Subject: Oxalis--TOW Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:05:08 -0800 (PST) I too am a fan of Oxalis. My sister in law Susan introduced them to me 10 years ago and a good friend and Nursery man, Tom Nuccio (Nuccio Nursery in Altadena, CA) also collects the more unusual forms. The 3 of us have been trading for several years. But this group has open my eyes to even more unusual Oxalis of which my favs are on the Oxalis wiki page. Each time they are offered on the PBS bulb exhange I find myself ordering more even if I have them already, I'll give them to Susan or Tom. You can never have too many (accept the weedy ones, I try to stay away from). I thank everyone who has contribute info about Oxalis I save the info, thank you. Ann Marie Sunset zone 9. Mary Sue Ittner wrote: Dear All, Thank you Robin for the great introduction. I joined the Oxalis fan club a number of years ago when Mike Mace shared offsets several years later after his wife gave him as a present the IBS collection from Michael Vassar bulbs that was offered as a fund raiser. I have also bought some from Telos Bulbs every year and traded some from other enthusiasts. I find them hard to beat because of the long bloom and the variety of colors and leaves. I love the obtusas and put a couple pictures on the Oxalis wiki page of those we saw in mass in the Little Karoo. It was dazzling. We saw so many Oxalis in bloom in South Africa this last trip which was surprising since many of the Oxalis from that country bloom so much earlier. Another one I think is really beautiful not mentioned yet is Oxalis callosa. There are pictures of it on the wiki too. Last year was my first year to grow O. goniorhiza. It is very similar to O. versicolor and very long blooming (I noted the first bloom last year was in Oct. and the last in Feb.) and a winner. Another one that has been spectacular this fall is Oxalis polyphylla v. heptaphylla MV 6396. It is pretty even when it is closed and looking at it sideways with the light shining through it is also a delight. There are pictures of it on the wiki too. I am also very fond of Oxalis luteola although two of the four I have tried to grow have never bloomed for me. The two others are very reliable. Last year when I redid two of my raised beds with Alberto's advice, I decided to plant Oxalis in two different pots in my African bed. I was curious if they would come back since I had promised myself not to replant the bed this year and most people recommend replanting Oxalis every day. Blooming today in the garden in the raised beds is one of the Oxalis luteolas. The other one was an obtusa and it has sprouted again. Below it the one blooming today. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxais_flava_pink4.jpg I do have one question. My Oxalis have been very slow to come up this fall. I planted most of them before I went to South Africa not wanting to have to do it when I returned. It has been my observation that ones that have been out of soil and sprouted come up very quickly once you have potted them up. In fact I recently received some from Uli that arrived looking a bit smashed. I think they all had roots and I believe almost all of them are now up and not showing any ill effects. Contrast that with maybe ten pots of other Oxalis that aren't showing any life and others that have only come up in the last week or two. When I reported about the talk in South Africa people were saying they weren't dormant long and would immediately start growing with moisture. Any clues what is going on? I am tempted to unpot them all next year and not replant them until I see roots. By the way it might be of interest to everyone that Oxalis is the most popular genus page we have on the wiki, having gotten more hits than any of the others. Mary Sue _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Ann Marie So. California, San Gabriel Valley, Zone 21 (Sunset Western Garden book) , influenced by both marine and interior air(Santa Ana winds). This makes it perfect for Citrus trees and most So African plants. I collect and sometimes sell belladonnas, nerines, oxalis, moraea, amaryllis, palms, epiphyllums, succulents and other south african bulbs. email me at mysticgardn@yahoo.com for list of bulbs and plants for sale. For home and garden sculptures go to http://www.rjunkdrawer.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard From david@victor.u-net.com Thu Nov 13 14:29:33 2003 Message-Id: <8C5783398A40026-890-71B@APP4> From: Subject: TOW Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:29:31 -0800 Robin wrote O. gracilis, or something very similar, is sometimes sold in commerce as O. karroica, a name which I have not found in the standard Oxalis literature or IPNI. It is a lovely plant. --- Like you, I've come across the name O. karroica, but have never been able to trace a valid reference to it. O tenuifolia is rather similar ---Sadly, the flowers are almost over. However, I'lll try to key it out against O. tenuifolia. My only doubt is that it has red edges to the petals, whereas Salter says O. tenuifolia has purple edges. I've held this view for many years - the spelling is actually melanosticta --- many thanks for noticing my mistake. Mary Sue wrote: I remembered that earlier on the Oxalis group that David Victor told about a checklist to solve that problem. Does this checklist tell where each of the species is from or time of bloom? --- The degree of data depends on what Richard could lay his hands on at the time of writing, to be honest. However, it does cover every species, sub-species and variety he has been able to trace, as well as all of the invalid names and synonyms, with pointers to the correct versions. For each entry he gives the epithet, author, date, and journal of publication. Then, its status, its country and place of origin, Basion, as good a description as he could gather, details of any illustrations and remarks. It is the best that I know of and certainly surpasses IK. --- With this in mind, I thought that I would consult it to sort out my confusion over O. articulatat and O. crassipes. Salter handles O crassipes, but only as a var. of O. hirta (var. tenuicaulis). Richard's entries are as follows: O. crassipes Urb. in Eichl. Jahrb. Berl. iii:242 (1884) Status: Species Habitat/Ecogolgy: Africa "trop", says Index Kewensis O. crassipes L. Bolus in Journ. Bo. lxvi:9 (1928) Status: invalid name, synonym, see O. hirta L. var. tenuicaulis Knuth, says Salter So, the name has been used twice to cover two different oxalis. More recently, Index Kewensis has been updated to include O. articulata forma crassipes (Urb) Lourteig, published in Phytologia 50: 138 (1982). Prof. Alicia Lourteig is an authority, particularly on the weed forms of Oxalis. Incidentally, once again we see the importance of quoting the authority when using names! Best regards, David Victor From angelopalm69@inwind.it Thu Nov 13 15:19:29 2003 Message-Id: <002a01c3aa23$1a61cc20$fa9c623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Germinating Crinum Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:16:29 +0100 Hi all, I have got some Crinum procerum splendens (the red leaves asiaticum type or whatever it is called !) more then a month ago. Some seeds germinated in a matter of days, as all Crinum usually do, but there are still some doing nothing. As I have them just in a shadehouse at natural heat ( I mean a greenhouse which roof is a shadecloth at 90% ) I wonder if they need a bit of heating to germinate. I have always germinate Crinum seeds without difficult, but I have usually got the seeds in summer, so heat was enough. Now temps are cooling down at night (abt 8-10°C or 45-48F). Any suggestion is appreciated. many thanks Angelo From Summer2864@aol.com Thu Nov 13 16:39:22 2003 Message-Id: <9c.37ef3c31.2ce55404@aol.com> From: Summer2864@aol.com Subject: SEEKING CLIVIA SEEDS Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:39:16 EST HELLO, I, AM LOOKING FOR CLIVIA SEEDS . IN PARTICULAR YELLOWS AND VARIGAGATED VARIETIES. HOPING FOR YOSHIKAZU NAKAMURA OR SHIGETAKA SASAKI BREEDINGS. THANK YOU. SINCERELY, TERRY E-MAIL summer2864@aol.com From robin@rpattrill.freeserve.co.uk Thu Nov 13 17:58:35 2003 Message-Id: <005f01c3aa39$a86c8d50$7f16893e@ibmcatwpkh6omz> From: "Robin Attrill" Subject: Oxalis--TOW - More responses Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:58:29 -0000 All, Some more responses to recent postings. regards Robin Mary Sue wrote > > > Does this checklist tell where each of the species is from or time of > bloom? I've looked at the Kew list before when I have been puzzled about a > name and often all that was listed was the name of the plant and the > authority and I am afraid I wanted more information than that. > For most species in just quotes the same information as IPNI, particularly for the non-African taxa, but there is additional data for some species. > > "The potting mix for Oxalis depends on what kind of Oxalis you are > planting. I find that the winter growing species from the Western Cape area > of South Africa (now correctly the Southern Cape I think) all do best > planted in a very poor mix with little or no organic material. In > habitat they almost all grow in pure decomposed sandstone. For these winter > growing species I use 50% agricultural pumice, 40% washed builder's sand > and 10% leaf mould (or less). A mix of pumice and washed builder's sand > would be adequate without any organics at all. I fertilize with a 15-30-15 > fertilizer at 1/4 strength about once a month. I don't like perlite because > of the dust and because it floats to the top in a planting mix. > > It sounds like Oxalis are very flexible. > They certainly are. The protocol that Michael described is fine providing the plants do not go without water for long periods. I find the 2 parts soil based compost (I use JI #2) to one part grit to be better in this respect as it is more moisture retentive. I use it for all my Oxalis, both summer and winter growing. Andrew wrote.... >O heptaphylla, O. pentaphylla and O. polyphylla. They form a rather unusual group, but a rather choice one. This species complex (they are forms of polyphylla) are nice plants and do increase freely. The Vassar introduction assigned as v. heptaphylla (MV6396) originates from Vanrhynsdorp, S Africa and is unusual in that it is almost acaulescent. Lauw wrote.. >There are other Oxalis with equally deorative leaves >like the O palmifrons (still waiting to see the flowers but very decorative leaves) In my experience this is very difficult to flower. Suggestions welcome!!!! From plants_man@bigpond.com Thu Nov 13 20:06:57 2003 Message-Id: <003901c3aa4b$faf49d30$58fa8690@userbwbb7lkmiq> From: "Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan" Subject: Germinating Crinum Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:08:15 +1100 H Angelo, you could try taking them inside where it is warmer. A more stable warmth should do the trick. Of course, some seeds just refuse to shoot! Best wishes, Dash. Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan, Mainly Amaryllids Garden, P O Box 173, Barnawartha,Victoria,3688, Australia. +61 02 60267377 Visit my web site @ www.users.bigpond.com/plants_man/Home.htm Now with Online Payment Method Email the Australian Bulb Association at: support@ausbulbs.org ABA Web Sites: http://www.ausbulbs.org Checkout http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angelo Porcelli" To: Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 7:16 AM Subject: [pbs] Germinating Crinum Hi all, I have got some Crinum procerum splendens (the red leaves asiaticum type or whatever it is called !) more then a month ago. Some seeds germinated in a matter of days, as all Crinum usually do, but there are still some doing nothing. As I have them just in a shadehouse at natural heat ( I mean a greenhouse which roof is a shadecloth at 90% ) I wonder if they need a bit of heating to germinate. I have always germinate Crinum seeds without difficult, but I have usually got the seeds in summer, so heat was enough. Now temps are cooling down at night (abt 8-10°C or 45-48F). Any suggestion is appreciated. many thanks Angelo _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Thu Nov 13 21:02:22 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031113172036.00e0cc90@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: TOW Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:24:50 -0800 Dear David and Robin, Is there any chance David of your posting pictures to the wiki of O. cathara, O. gracilis, and O. heidelbergensis? Thanks for your responses about the checklist. I have ordered it as it sounds like it would be helpful for my collection and for adding information to the wiki as well. David's example is fascinating however as I found several sources on my computer who described Oxalis crassipes as South American. Please help the rest of us in deciphering how to use your information. One reference from 1884 describes this as from tropical Africa. The second description indicates that a plant named as O. crassipes is really a form of Oxalis hirta. And then you have a third reference to a plant named Oxalis articulata forma crassipes. But there was no mention of where this plant is from. So what are we to conclude is the correct name for Lauw's plants, the ones Andrew B. is talking about and Uli's and presumably the ones in my archives that were recommended for the south. Are they all the same plant and should it be more correctly named Oxalis articulata forma crassipes? Or is this plant really Oxalis hirta? Mary Sue >O. crassipes Urb. in Eichl. Jahrb. Berl. iii:242 (1884) >Status: Species >Habitat/Ecogolgy: Africa "trop", says Index Kewensis > >O. crassipes L. Bolus in Journ. Bo. lxvi:9 (1928) >Status: invalid name, synonym, see O. hirta L. var. tenuicaulis >Knuth, says Salter > >So, the name has been used twice to cover two different oxalis. More >recently, Index Kewensis has been updated to include O. articulata forma >crassipes (Urb) Lourteig, published in Phytologia 50: 138 (1982). Prof. >Alicia Lourteig is an authority, particularly on the weed forms of Oxalis. From msittner@mcn.org Thu Nov 13 21:02:33 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031113172544.00d24d40@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Oxalis--TOW Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:58:59 -0800 Dear All, When Jim Holmes spoke in South Africa on Oxalis I attempted to take notes, but that was made a bit challenging since I also was looking at the slides at the same time. And there was no slide list so I had to guess on the names. So I am not sure how helpful any of this information is or how accurate for that matter, but here is what I wrote about the species: Oxalis tenuifolia--grows in sand, vanishing quickly, red stripe on back Oxalis pulchella--looks like purpurea, dark leaves, bright yellow flowers Oxalis polyphylla--white to pink, small Oxalis purpurea--grows in crevices, needs good light Note from Mary Sue, this one can be a bit invasive in California, but it is attractive and long blooming. My experience has been that it doesn't bloom at all if it doesn't get a lot of sun Oxalis flava--dry sandy soils, very deep. Many leaflets, many different leaflet types, some darker forms. Not always happy in a pot. Flowers sitting on ground without leaves if not potted in time. Has largest flowers in the group. Oxalis pulchella--large flowers, very hot conditions, grows on rock in Tonka Karoo where it gets little rain. Found in cracks on bottom, fragrant, no direct sun. Apricot, yellowish, floriferous Oxalis salteri--leaves look almost primula like, pure yellow or pure white flowers in small populations, none in between. Grows very dry, but not very deep. In flava group, more advanced. Oxalis namaquana--looks like flava, but doesn't fit Oxalis cathara--flowers late in single populations, similar to flava bulbs, but smaller. Some double forms. Oxalis palmifrons--from very cold area, leaves flat on ground. Reluctant to flower in cultivation. Need bigger bulb. (I have no idea what the last sentence means.) Oxalis livida--tight rosettes, from damp areas, very variable Oxalis punctata--large flowers, very pretty, found in Nieuwoudtville, short stemmed to tall Oxalis luteola--very floriferous, bulb looks like a stone which protects the bulb Oxalis luteola minor--smaller leaves and flowers Oxalis hirta--widespread, many forms, salmon, orange, white, yellow. Variation is tremendous. Oxalis massoniana--related to hirta, known from Nieuwouldtville, lovely, long blooming Oxalis convexula--Worcester, very succulent, rosette flat or rosette that stands, produces bulbs around ? (Note from Mary Sue, is this the one that produces thousands of what could be baby bulbs around the top of the stem?) Oxalis obtusa--very showy. Comes from dry regions. Bulbs small, concave. Those from Namaqualand are yellow, those from southern areas are pink. Late blooming. Seed of this species has capsules that allow it to survive the long summer, unlike other species Oxalis livilans--needs to be kept wet Oxalis glabra--stoloniferous, makes small colonies, wet seepy areas, white to mauve, small bulbs Oxalis monophylla--found in Cape Town area, Gordon's Bay Oxalis monophylla minor, seep area, single standing leaf, covered in fine tissues, bulb sits on basal plate with 6 or 7 on one plate. One or two flowers from each bulb. Not true of any other group. Oxalis dregei--single leaf, grows in running water Oxalis nortieri--single leaf, flowers like purpurea, looks like nothing else. Oxalis comosa--flowers with three colors. Found in flat, wet areas, Nieuwoudtville, not many with three colors Finally, Cape Plants by Peter Goldblatt and John Manning devotes 8 pages to Oxalis found in the Cape floral province of South Africa. The section is written by B. Bayer. This book incorporates the key and since there is no index to the plants this drives me crazy when I am trying to find a plant listed since they are divided into nine sections in the key. For those of you who do not have this book these are the sections: A. Peduncle more than 1 flowered--10 species including some of the pesty ones (O. corniculata, O. pes-caprae) A.' Peduncle 1-flowered B. Leaves unifoliolate--4 species B.' Leaves usually 4 or more folioate--7 species B.'' Leaves trifoliolate C. Peduncular bracts at an articulation D. Leaves bifurcate to middle or below--3 species D. Leaves not bifurcate--13 species C. Peduncular bracts not at an articulation or lacking E. Plants caulescent with leafy stems; lower leaves at least subsessile or sessile; peduncles often cauline--13 species E. Plants acaulescent or caulescent but then leaves apically congested and distinctly petiolate; peduncles terminal F. Leaflets linear-conduplicate--18 species F. Leaflets oblong to obcordate G. Leaflets fleshy, often small, epidermal cells large--12 species G. Leaflets not as above--40 species Does this key follow Salter? Would any of the botanists in the group be willing to translate this into terms we could all understand? Mary Sue From jan@boltha.nl Fri Nov 14 02:16:52 2003 Message-Id: From: Jan v/d Berg Subject: Allium Hybrids Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:17:45 +0100 Indeed most of the Allim Hybrids are sterile. That are crossings with Allium macrleanii and christophii( Globemaster) and aflatunense with mecleanii ( Lucy Ball and Gladiator) I think for a successfull crossing with this type, you have toe cross between Allium Purpel Sensation, Allium Aflatunense, Allium mecleanii and Allium cristophii (same as Allim albopilosum) and Allium Karataviense. These Allium you can cross wiht each other. To Mark I will say that i like his Allium flavum types very much. I never saw such coulourfull types of Allium flavum before. I missed the article in IBS Bulbs. can you send it me? Jan van den Berg Message: 6 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:58:11 EST From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Re: [pbs] Allium hybrids To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Message-ID: <1d8.1448e902.2ce45b53@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" "Jamie" jamievande@freenet.de wrote: >Although I've tried with the few "ball" type >Alliums, such as A. giganteum, A. jesdianum, >A. christoffii, A. schubertii and their possible >hybrids (Lucille Ball, Globemaster, hollandicum, >etc), I've never managed to set seed through >intrageneric pollination. I've found all the named >cultivars I have to be sterile. Of course, this is >a limited group! >I remember a wonderful article in the IBS BULBS >on A. flavum cultivars. That was my article entitled "The rainbow color genesis of Allium flavum ssp. tauricum" that appeared in IBS BULBS earlier this year. >Is anyone working with Allium? I have selected a good number of Allium hybrids, mostly of the rhizomatous types. I have also been selecting color forms of Allium flavum ssp. tauricum for quite a while, resulting in the huge color range which was the subject of my aforementioned article. While the "big ball" type of allium (section Melanocrommyum) are interesting and showy, they are actually not as useful in the garden as those species that grow all season long with handsome foliage clumps, such as the Rhizirideum section of the genus (those with bulbs attached to rhizomes). There is tremendous untapped potential in developing superior hybrids of summer/fall growing alliums. I have previously posted a number of Allium hybrid pictures to the PBS wiki. Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:03:37 -0800 From: "Michael Mace" Subject: [pbs] Re: Too many Amaryllis photos To: Message-ID: <000c01c3a9a3$80531dc0$8c0b510c@d1fqn01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" John I. asked: >Are you doing any crosses with them back onto Brunsvigia spp.? These are what I would be interested in seeing more >and more of. I'd make the crosses if I had any blooming-size Brunsvigias. Unfortunately, I can't afford to send 85 pounds plus postage to Paul Christian to get some ;-) So I'll have to wait another 10 years for the seedlings I'm growing. In the meantime, my Brunsvigia crossing experience has been limited to making a bunch of crosses with some B. josephinae pollen sent me last year. Several of those crosses produced intriguing little white seeds that were already sprouting in the pod. I'm told that's a very good sign. We'll see what happens. If anyone wants to trade pollen of amaryllids, let me know privately. I have also been trying some crosses with various Nerine sarniensis cultivars. Very little success so far, although I may have achieved a few using the Nerine as the seed parent. Won't know until they bloom. What I'm trying for is something that combines the red of N. sarniensis with the size and durability of Amaryllis. Mike San Jose, CA (zone 9, min temp 20F) ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:51:05 -0800 From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Re: [pbs] Oxalis--TOW To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <4.2.2.20031112215636.00b4ec50@mail.mcn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dear All, I am enjoying all the participation in the topic of the week and appreciate Robin's moderating as well. One of the things that frustrates me about this genus is all the host of names that people mention. I always want to know where that plant comes from, what kind of soils is it found in, when does it get rainfall in nature, and when does it bloom. I remembered that earlier on the Oxalis group that David Victor told about a checklist to solve that problem. "The author is Richard Clifton, who is the Editor for the Geraniaceae Group. The checklist was produced three years ago and was based on a review of the Index Kewensis, Salter's monograph of South African Oxalis and various flora. It covers the naming of virtually all species of Oxalis and their authorities and limited descriptive material. There is also a wide critique of O. corniculata. The checklist can be obtained from Richard's home address which is 7 Crabble Road, Dover, Kent, England, CT17 0QD. He is not on e-mail. The checklist cost 15 UK pounds. Post and packing is in addition and will cost two pounds for surface mail and more for air mail. Richard cannot accept credit cards. Cheques are a problem because of exchange costs, unless purchased locally and drawn on a correspondent UK bank. Probably cash is best. " Andrew Broome found this resource as a way to obtain it: http://www.nhbs.com/xbscripts/bkfsrch?search=126428 Does this checklist tell where each of the species is from or time of bloom? I've looked at the Kew list before when I have been puzzled about a name and often all that was listed was the name of the plant and the authority and I am afraid I wanted more information than that. For instance I was curious about the origin of the plant that Lauw and Uli were talking about. It isn't in any of my references but I found in one of my saved references that Oxalis crassipes was a plant from Argentina that had become popular in the Gulf south of the USA where it bloomed in spring and sometimes again in fall. One thing that strikes me is that a lot of people are not growing Oxalis in the mix you usually hear associated with it. I looked up what I could find from Micael Vassar and found this: "The potting mix for Oxalis depends on what kind of Oxalis you are planting. I find that the winter growing species from the Western Cape area of South Africa (now correctly the Southern Cape I think) all do best planted in a very poor mix with little or no organic material. In habitat they almost all grow in pure decomposed sandstone. For these winter growing species I use 50% agricultural pumice, 40% washed builder's sand and 10% leaf mould (or less). A mix of pumice and washed builder's sand would be adequate without any organics at all. I fertilize with a 15-30-15 fertilizer at 1/4 strength about once a month. I don't like perlite because of the dust and because it floats to the top in a planting mix. The summer growing African species need a richer mix and can have up to 25% organic material. They tend to have a longer growing season (some are even evergreen). Oxalis species from Central America and Mexico (mostly rhizomatous) are mostly evergreen and also do best in a richer planting mix. I plant all bulbs one inch (2.5cm) deep. Bulbs adjust themselves in the planting mix to the correct depth. It is impossible to distinguish the top from the bottom of some Oxalis bulbs so plant them sideways-always works well. I find that Oxalis grow, flower, and produce replacement bulbs better if grown on the hard side." As I read on I found the following note from Will Ashburner: "I do the opposite to Mike with regards planting mix. Mine is totally organic (shredded composted pine bark and coco peat)with an air fill porosity of 20% and full range of nutrients. They multiply like rabbits and flower etc. I have never seen them in the wild so they may be out of character and too lush, but ignorance is bliss." It sounds like Oxalis are very flexible. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:01:36 -0000 From: "David Fenwick" Subject: [pbs] Amaryllis with Nerine + Sanders Nursery To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Message-ID: <000901c3a9bc$5c66e9a0$7e89eb50@davidfen> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Michael and all, >>>>>I have also been trying some crosses with various Nerine sarniensis cultivars. Very little success so far, although I may have achieved a few using the Nerine as the seed parent. Won't know until they bloom. The same has happened here this year but with Nerine bowdenii 'E. B. Anderson'. The seeds look good but I'll have to see if they'll germinate. Does anyone know anything about Sanders and Sons Nursery ? Presumably an old UK nursery, and one that was going at the turn of the previous century, around the 1900s. I've just received an Amaryllis belladonna 'Sanders Form' with provenance dating back to 1906, and to this nursery, so obviously I'd like to find out a little more about them. Best Wishes, Dave David Fenwick NCCPG National Plant Heritage Collections of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens Estover Plymouth Devon England PL6 8TW Websites www.theafricangarden.com www.crocosmiaheritage.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 03/11/03 ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:36:38 +1100 From: Robert Hamilton Subject: [pbs] Triteleia lemmonae To: Pacific Society Message-ID: <42C6D547-15C5-11D8-9F72-0003938EDBFA@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi all, I have just posted some images of Triteleia lemmonae to the wiki . It is flowering in my garden at present. I raised it from seed purchased from Southwest Native Seeds and have grown it for a number of years , always in a pot until I put some in a new raised be I constructed last summer. The "in ground" plants are flowering later than those in pots but are looking much better and are featured in the images. Mary Sue wrote the following about T lemmonae in her very comprehensive article. "Triteleia lemmonae is a species that is endemic to Arizona where it grows in sparse pine woodland at elevations between 5000 and 7000 feet (1524-2134 meters). It has bright yellow flowers fading purplish with arrowhead-shaped anthers." One of the images illustrates the "arrowheads." http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Triteleia Cheers, Rob in TasmaniaFrom dejager@bulbargence.com Thu Nov 13 11:07:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Received: from sydney.provnet.fr (mail.provnet.fr [81.255.52.28]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 647AC2001F for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:07:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from [80.9.113.174] by sydney.provnet.fr (NTMail 5.06.0016/NT2604.00.2eaccbf8) with ESMTP id ssfojbaa for pbs@lists.ibiblio.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:54:53 +0100 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.5 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:06:45 +0100 Subject: Re: [pbs] Oxalis--TOW From: Lauw de Jager To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20031112215636.00b4ec50@mail.mcn.org> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society List-Id: Pacific Bulb Society List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Andrew and all, Oxalis polyphylla var heptaphylla came here via Mary Sue from Michel Vassar and is just about to flower. It has palmate ( or digital ?) leaves with very fine lobes. There are other Oxalis with equally deorative leaves like the O palmifrons (still waiting to see the flowers but very decorative leaves) O flava (including a pink form with only two very wide lobes). Four years ago you gave me a yellow Oxalis, which after a few years sulking in its new environment is now doing well and is flowering now with dainty small yellow flowers. Temperorary it was identified as being O lobata but I am not very sure of it. Your picture of this plant is in our website. http://www.bulbargence.com. Can you confirm that it the correct name now? Kin regards Lauw de Jager South of France (zone 8 Olivier) ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php End of pbs Digest, Vol 10, Issue 16 *********************************** From robin@rpattrill.freeserve.co.uk Fri Nov 14 02:46:45 2003 Message-Id: <002501c3aa83$70f44440$76f5883e@ibmcatwpkh6omz> From: "Robin Attrill" Subject: TOW Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:46:39 -0000 Mary Sue wrote, > So what are we to conclude is the correct name for Lauw's plants, the ones > Andrew B. is talking about and Uli's and presumably the ones in my archives > that were recommended for the south. Are they all the same plant and should > it be more correctly named Oxalis articulata forma crassipes? Or is this > plant really Oxalis hirta? The plant that has been discussed is the former. The latter is autumn flowering, caulescent, and not very hardy although it can be grown out of doors in the mildest parts of the British Isles. > > From robin@rpattrill.freeserve.co.uk Fri Nov 14 03:06:17 2003 Message-Id: <002b01c3aa86$2cce8f20$76f5883e@ibmcatwpkh6omz> From: "Robin Attrill" Subject: Oxalis--TOW Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:06:14 -0000 All, Some comments on Mary Sues references to the Jim Holmes talk etc. Robin > > Oxalis flava--dry sandy soils, very deep. Many leaflets, many different > leaflet types, some darker forms. Not always happy in a pot. Flowers > sitting on ground without leaves if not potted in time. Has largest flowers > in the group. It grows fine in large pots - some forms are very vigorous. > > Oxalis palmifrons--from very cold area, leaves flat on ground. Reluctant to > flower in cultivation. Need bigger bulb. (I have no idea what the last > sentence means.) > The bulbs tend to divide readily but it is very shy flowering. Possibly deep planting may assist the production of fewer, larger bulbs which may be more floriferous > Oxalis livida--tight rosettes, from damp areas, very variable > In my experience species does not form rosettes - it is caulescent with a very elongated mode of growth. > Oxalis obtusa--very showy. Comes from dry regions. Bulbs small, concave. > Those from Namaqualand are yellow, those from southern areas are pink. Late > blooming. Seed of this species has capsules that allow it to survive the > long summer, unlike other species > The late flowering species such as obtusa are the ones which possess reasonable seed longevity for the reason stated. The same is true for the south american spring flowering taxa. Autumn flowering species from winter rainfall areas tend to have transient viability . > Oxalis monophylla > An interesting curiosity with attractive purple flowers. Easy to grow. > > Finally, Cape Plants by Peter Goldblatt and John Manning devotes 8 pages to > Oxalis found in the Cape floral province of South Africa. The section is > written by B. Bayer. This book incorporates the key and since there is no > index to the plants this drives me crazy when I am trying to find a plant > listed since they are divided into nine sections in the key. For those of > you who do not have this book these are the sections:> ....> > Does this key follow Salter? Would any of the botanists in the group be > willing to translate this into terms we could all understand? > Salters book splits them into 11 sections, some of which have a number of sub sections, and there are a couple of species which do not fall into any section! I do not have the Cape Plants book you refer to, although I have the earlier tome by Goldblatt and Bond,which covers a similar area, but would remind users that it covers a discreet geographical area and there are many winter flowering South African Oxalis that may not appear in the keys! From robin@rpattrill.freeserve.co.uk Fri Nov 14 03:19:37 2003 Message-Id: <003101c3aa88$09f8f290$76f5883e@ibmcatwpkh6omz> From: "Robin Attrill" Subject: References Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:19:34 -0000 Jane, This is a sensible suggestion. I will update the Oxalis page, although some information has already been added. Mary Sue, I have an electronic copy of the late Michael Vassars collection which provides useful information on the origins of the various MVxxxx accession numbers. If I edit this to remove non-essenetial detail could it be added to the Oxalis page, eg as a PDF file? - it would be too large to directly paste the text onto the front page. Regards Robin > > When items like this come to our attention, it would be good to add them to > the introductory paragraphs in the "Photographs and Information" section of > the PBS wiki, under the appropriate genus. Doing this is not as complicated > as adding a photograph. You just call up the genus page, click "Edit" at > the bottom of the page, type in your information at the proper spot, then > click "Save" at the bottom of the page. > > From africanbulbs@haznet.co.za Fri Nov 14 07:50:40 2003 Message-Id: <000401c3aaaf$9beff960$d06a27c4@ecuser62> From: "Cameron McMaster" Subject: germinating Crinum Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:45:35 +0200 Angelo You could also try lifting the seeds and soaking them in water for 24 hours, then putting them back in the seed box. See if you can find the spot where the roots will emerge - sometimes it is growing under the skin already - and place that root side downwards. Rhoda Napier, Western Cape Mediterranean climate with some summer rain From annejim@acay.com.au Fri Nov 14 08:58:54 2003 Message-Id: <3FB4E0DF.3020408@acay.com.au> From: Jim Lykos Subject: germinating Crinum Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 01:04:15 +1100 Hi Angelo, While I agree with the cultural logic of Cameron and Dash's suggestions I also think there could be an alternative reason why the Crinum seed hasnt germinated. I have found that some Crinum seed - particularly that collected late in the flowering season doesn't germinate regardless of what cultural inducements you attempt. I have found this particularly with a related species like C. pedunculatum. If it doesnt germinate before the close of early Autumn, it will usually remain dormant until the following early summer, when in most cases the radicle will start to grow from the seed. This could for instance be an adaptation to monsoon dry and wet periods in its natural habitat, or a strategy of germination delay which allows for a greater period of time for seed dispersal particularly by water and sea. I suspect that phytoperiodism and temperature activate the growth of the radicle, and if I am correct then its the length of daily sunlight and temperature that would need to be controlled to induce an earlier germination. The seed should remain turgid and healthy if it is half buried in seedling raising mix, and this is kept out of the sun and protected from frosts in winter. Cheers Jim Lykos Cameron McMaster wrote: >Angelo >You could also try lifting the seeds and soaking them in water for 24 hours, then putting them back in the seed box. See if you can find the spot where the roots will emerge - sometimes it is growing under the skin already - and place that root side downwards. >Rhoda > >Napier, Western Cape >Mediterranean climate with some summer rain >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Fri Nov 14 10:34:28 2003 Message-Id: <20031114153426.52268.qmail@span.corp.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Germinating Crinum Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:34:26 -0800 (PST) Angelo, I made some seeds this year, procerum x pedunculatum and I selfed the pedunculatum. The cross is sprouting outdoors in full sun at the beach with minimum night temps that can go into the low 50's maybe lower I'm not sure. While the selfing, seeds taken were slightly immature, are showing no signs of taking off. Also, I received several seeds last year that sat there for 6-8 months before getting started. It's not like sowing pansies. Crinum are a lot more unpredictable. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. Soon to become www.floralarchitecture.com check it out soon 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From samhay@earthlink.net Fri Nov 14 12:18:18 2003 Message-Id: <8ACE395B-16C5-11D8-A566-000393B8CD9A@earthlink.net> From: Sam Hay Subject: Lewisia Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:11:10 -0800 This may be off topic but I hope someone can lead me to a source for Lewisia seeds. My wife has purchased some Lewisia from our local Trader Joe market. I looked them up in a general book I have and became interested in them. I would also be interested in more information about the genus that is named for Meriwether Lewis. I also am interested in books on bulbs. Is it best to get a book on a specific genus or is there a good general publication? Thank you all, Sam Hay Yorba Linda, CA Zone 10 From samhay@earthlink.net Fri Nov 14 13:46:18 2003 Message-Id: <0BBD4680-16D3-11D8-A566-000393B8CD9A@earthlink.net> From: Sam Hay Subject: BX49 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:47:49 -0800 I see that Dell added a "cycles" note on the species in the BX49. But I'm not familiar with "cycle" used in this context. Does that mean when it blooms? there are a lot of "W's" is it when they are dormant? san hay Yorba Linda, CA From khixson@nu-world.com Wed Nov 19 03:39:31 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20031114115514.00942120@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Oxalis hardiness Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:55:14 -0800 Hi, all: Would someone like to suggest an answer: Which Oxalis are reasonably hardy? For me that means Zone 7. Every so often I buy Oxalis adenophylla from one of the suppliers who presumably buy them from Holland. They last five years or so then disappear. I don't think they freeze out, but they are gone. They do not set seed or otherwise multiply, just disappear. In pots, in the ground, in raised beds, various places, and so far none have been acceptable. Other Oxalis would be trialed if they were likely to be hardy. Ken western Oregon From ernestwells@mindspring.com Fri Nov 14 15:19:46 2003 Message-Id: <32908734.1068841186746.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net> From: ernestwells@mindspring.com Subject: BX49 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:19:46 -0800 (GMT-08:00) It should be when the bloom -----Original Message----- From: Sam Hay Sent: Nov 14, 2003 10:47 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] BX49 I see that Dell added a "cycles" note on the species in the BX49. But I'm not familiar with "cycle" used in this context. Does that mean when it blooms? there are a lot of "W's" is it when they are dormant? san hay Yorba Linda, CA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Fri Nov 14 16:13:55 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031114130028.00a46f00@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Books and Key for seeds Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:12:16 -0800 Dear Sam, About a year ago we talked about adding when plants would be in growth so those people who were starting seeds from the BX would have a clue about the right time to start them. At first Dell included the key and it would probably be good for him to add it to his standard message. People who were donating seed were asked to tell Dell when it grows as he can't be expected to know about all of the things we all grow. Alberto has often kindly supplemented the information when lacking. If it is sp. seed that could be summer or winter growing, then only the donor knows. SEED: (W = winter-growing; S = summer growing; WE = winter-growing, evergreen) We discussed our favorite books last December. You can check out the posts in the archives. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2002-December/subject.html I think what you buy depends on where you live and what you are interested in. We all have various favorites and books we use a lot. From your introduction I am sure you'd want to have Harold Koopowitz's Clivia book for a starter. If you stay on this list and get hooked on growing things from seed you will find that there are a lot of books that you will want to have. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From jennifer.hildebrand@att.net Fri Nov 14 16:31:55 2003 Message-Id: <111420032131.4766.7008@att.net> From: jennifer.hildebrand@att.net Subject: Lewisia Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:31:50 +0000 Hi Sam, I was able to find sevearl Lewisia seed sources - unfortunately, they're all outside the U.S., so you would have to get a phyto. If you're interested, here they are: https://www.jelitto.com/haupt_en.html http://www.ashwood-nurseries.co.uk/ordlewis.htm http://www.edirectory.co.uk/chilternseeds/pages/Default.asp http://www.nickys-nursery.co.uk/seeds/pages/page8a.htm Paige Woodward's Pacific Rim Nursery sells Lewisia plants: http://www.hillkeep.ca/per%20lewisia.htm (Canadian - I believe a phyto would be required?) A few varieties are available from this site (US!) http://www.gardenmakers.com/seedindx.htm#L For info re. Lewis & Clark's "discoveries": http://www.life.umd.edu/emeritus/reveal/pbio/LnC/LnCpublic.html Have fun shopping! Jennifer From jennifer.hildebrand@att.net Fri Nov 14 16:42:47 2003 Message-Id: <111420032142.15437.36de@att.net> From: jennifer.hildebrand@att.net Subject: imidacloprid Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:42:45 +0000 Hi all, Gosh I hope I spelled that right! For anyone considering getting this product to help banish mealy bugs - I just picked up a bottle of Bayer's Advanced Garden Rose & Flower Insect Killer. One of it's two active ingredients is imidacloprid. At any rate, I got it at Walmart - less than $6 for a 32 oz. bottle. Seemed like a good price to me, so I thought I'd pass it along. Also - was it Kelly and Uli who warned against overuse? What other products do you rotate in so that the mealies won't develop a resistance? Jennifer From fbiasella@watertownsavings.com Fri Nov 14 17:01:37 2003 Message-Id: <001601c3aafa$e65e6e00$55a7f10a@www.watertownsavings.com> From: "fbiasella" Subject: imidacloprid Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:01:47 -0500 Hello All, I've had luck with diazanon liquid in controlling those little stinkers (for lack of better words!!!). This summer I had an infestation with most of my amaryllids (Clivias included!!!). I diluted it with water at less than the manufacturer's instruction and used a spray bottle labeled so that nothing else would ever go in that bottle other than the diazinon. I made sure to only spray the affected part...i.e.. the part closest to the soil level and the part where the leaves emerge from the bulb. To date I have not had another outbreak, but I always have a bottle of diazinon spray available. I know it's probably not the most environmentally safe thing to use but I do use it with great care as not to allow it to leach into the surrounding ground or let the kids (our dog and cat) get into. I hope it helps. Warm Regards (From windy and chilly Boston) Fred Biasella USDA Zone 6B -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of jennifer.hildebrand@att.net Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 4:43 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] imidacloprid Hi all, Gosh I hope I spelled that right! For anyone considering getting this product to help banish mealy bugs - I just picked up a bottle of Bayer's Advanced Garden Rose & Flower Insect Killer. One of it's two active ingredients is imidacloprid. At any rate, I got it at Walmart - less than $6 for a 32 oz. bottle. Seemed like a good price to me, so I thought I'd pass it along. Also - was it Kelly and Uli who warned against overuse? What other products do you rotate in so that the mealies won't develop a resistance? Jennifer _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Fri Nov 14 17:38:27 2003 Message-Id: <000c01c3aaff$1aa4dba0$7e89eb50@davidfen> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: germinating Crinum Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:31:53 -0000 >>>>>While I agree with the cultural logic of Cameron and Dash's suggestions I also think there could be an alternative reason why the Crinum seed hasnt germinated. I have found that some Crinum seed - particularly that collected late in the flowering season doesn't germinate regardless of what cultural inducements you attempt. Hi All, I haven't the same problem as Angelo but I've had another problem this year with Crinum seed. Here in SW England it has been a generally good year for Crinum moorei seed production and I've had some very large and good seed this year. However as soon as it comes of the plant, the seed softens, shrivels and turns black, and without being frosted. The cause for this is either 1/ fungal or 2/ or the fact that the seed is infertile. In the past I've germinated Crinum moorei by leaving the seed on the warm top of my computer monitor until a root forms, then as soon as it has it'll get potted up. I can't help thinking that Angelo's seed may also be infertile as mine possibly was this year. Best Wishes, Dave David Fenwick NCCPG National Plant Heritage Collections of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens Estover Plymouth Devon England PL6 8TW Websites www.theafricangarden.com www.crocosmiaheritage.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 03/11/03 From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Fri Nov 14 17:48:59 2003 Message-Id: <1AKmk9-1ScRH70@fwd01.sul.t-online.com> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: Oxalis hirta/crassipes/articulata Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:48:45 +0100 Dear All, What a good topic of the week this is! I think that O hirta is a plant so different from the one I consider O. articulata/crassipes that confusion is unlikely. O. hirta is a winter grower with a long summer dormancy with typical relatively large bulbs/corms. Its leaves are tiny but numerous, atttached dirctly to the branching stem and it grows tall but lanky and is nice in a hanging pot. The flowers are single and much larger than O. crassipes. O. crassipes/articulata is definetely evergreen, does not have bulbs or corms but finger like rhizomes that produce offsets at their base. It is trifoliate with long stalked leaves in large numbers and the flowers are on pedicels numerous per pedicel high above the foliage, the single flower being relatively small. With me it definetely flowers all year even in winter in the greenhouse it there is enough light and heat. Even if we may not be able to solve the name mystery....... it is a nice plant! greetings, Uli From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Fri Nov 14 18:25:34 2003 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: Dylan Hannon??? Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:25:02 -0800 Hi, Anyone out there have a new email address for Dylan? This one has come back as no good: HannonD@mail.cgu.edu Thanks. Please respond privately to: CathyCraigEA@hotmail.com Cathy Craig EA your Essential Advisor From eagle85@flash.net Fri Nov 14 20:04:29 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Dylan Hannon??? Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:52:28 -0800 Cathy CraigDoug Westfall cathycraigea@hotmail.com1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Hi, > > Anyone out there have a new email address for Dylan? This one has come back as > no good: HannonD@mail.cgu.edu > > Thanks. Please respond privately to: CathyCraigEA@hotmail.com > > Cathy Craig EA Try this one. Doug From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Nov 15 15:10:41 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031114181424.00b8ba98@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Lewisia Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:19:21 -0800 Sam Hay asked about sources of Lewisia and bulb books. Lewisia seeds are best obtained from the exchanges of the various rock garden societies. For the North American Rock Garden Society, see . Lewisia plants of various kinds are sold by several nurseries, such as Mt. Tahoma (28111 - 112th Ave. E., Graham, WA 98338; catalog, $3) and Siskiyou Rare Plant Nursery . The best book on bulbs to start out with is also one of the cheapest: Roger Phillips and Martyn Rix, "The Random House Book of Bulbs," a paperback in a series (the US publication of aseries originated by Pan Books in England) available at most large bookstores. It has color photos of hundreds of species and brief but very good information on their cultivation needs in the UK, which can be interpreted for US purposes. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Nov 14 21:21:46 2003 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Lewisia Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:21:43 -0800 No need to go outside the U.S. Lewisia seeds are available in the seed exchanges of various alpine garden societies, including the North American Rock Garden Society (NARGS). You need to be a member to get the seed, but maybe you have a friend who is a member and wouldn't mind giving you some seed. There are two nursery growers in Pacific Northwest who grow wonderful plants, and both have websites and offer mail order. Rick Lupp on the slopes of Mt Rainier, near Seattle, has quite a number of lewisia plants. http://www.backyardgardener.com/mttahoma/ The next one is a Canadian company which has a U.S. address as well. Roger Barlow's Beaver Creek Greenhouses. http://www.rockgardenplants.com/ 15 choices of Lewisia seeds and plants as well. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From totototo@mail.pacificcoast.net Tue Nov 11 23:06:52 2003 Message-Id: <200311120406.hAC46jaB024135@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: More fall crocuses Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:09:33 -800 On 9 Nov 03 at 17:57, Jane McGary wrote: > Rodger Whitlock's question about my potting mix is difficult to > answer in the detail he asks for, but I will try. Your reply is pretty good! I'm satisfied, for whatever that's worth. > >And as for the forest humus: what species contribute to it? > > Alder (Alnus rubra), vine maple (Acer circinatum), thimbleberry > (Rubus parviflorus), trailing blackberry (Rubus sp.), and a little > Douglas fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii), and herbs such as Dicentra > formosa and Montia. In other words, the same plants Rodger probably > has in his woods if there is some surface moisture. Alders are > nitrogen-fixers, so the soil under them is quite rich. I put it > through a coarse sieve to get the large chunks, bugs, etc., out, but > it is not sterilized. In fact, it is probably loaded with nematodes, > fungi, and bacteria -- yet it seems to be better for the bulbs than > any other organic component I've used. I prefer to get soil from the > woods rather than the fields because the weed seeds are less of a > problem. (Footnote: Acer circinnatum is uncommon on Vancouver Island. There's a stand along the San Juan River upstream from Port Renfrew, and that's about it afaik (as far as I know).] Your description is very helpful. Along the east coast of VI, the climate is pretty dry and the ecology subtly different from what you describe; your description suggests (indeed, you say so explicitly) that the forest humus you use is quite rich. The presence of critters, sensu latu, is undoubtedly beneficial. In her "Gardening and Beyond", Florence Bellis extolled the virtues of having good lively microbial flora in one's soil. Sounds like I need to make an expedition toward the west where it's wetter to get some good forest soil. > I don't think my soil mix has much to do with whatever success I > achieve, although it does provide a lot of air space and rapid > drainage, which is important for some bulbs. I'm half-way persuaded that the mixes I've used for a long time are too heavy and airless. These days I pour in the perlite until they start to feel more open and airy. > Probably regular repotting in fresh soil, application of > fertilizer, good air circulation, and managing moisture are more > important than what the bulbs are growing in. Don't forget putting them in a sunny enough position. You simply can't grow sun-loving bulbs in the shade! -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada "To co-work is human, to cow-ork, bovine." From onager@midtown.net Sat Nov 15 00:36:06 2003 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20031114210639.01c41578@pop3.midtown.net> From: Joyce Miller Subject: Lewisia Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:35:24 -0800 Dear Sam, A fine book on Lewisia is a book by that name by the late Roy Davidson. The book is available on line and, I am sure, through the North American Rock Gardening Society. Seed sources are of two kinds: seed exchanges and wild seed collectors. The advantage of seed exchanges is that usually a large number of species are available if you are a member and they are free. Seed exchange seeds are great when beginning with a new genus. You can develop the growing methodology without making a large outlay. The down side is the seed may be mis-labled, may be cross breds, may not be viable. Alternatively, correctly identified but a smaller number of species can be gotten from wild seed collectors like: Northwest Native Seed (Ron Ratko) oreonana@juno.com There is a small ($3?)fee for the first catalog. In his 2003 Catalog, Ron offered 19 different genera/species He accepts credit cards Southwestern Native Seed. Box 50503 Tucson,AZ 85703 Nominal charge ($2)for first catalog SNS offered fewer than 1/2 dozen genera/species. No credit cards, no phone, no fax. Just mail. For the serious hobbyist, their catalogs are worthwhile because of the number of other genera offered. Out PBS members will inundate you with their favorites. My favorite general bulb books are John Bryan's 2 volume 'Bulbs' sadly out of print; his revised 'Bulbs' and 'The Manual of Bulbs' from the Royal Horticultural Society. For going "deep" it is well to buy the one genus books. Best of luck. mailto:onager@midtown.net From dells@voicenet.com Sat Nov 15 10:12:12 2003 Message-Id: <200311151512.hAFFC8u1013114@email2.voicenet.com> From: Subject: imidacloprid Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:12:08 -0500 (EST) I have used Diazanon as well as systemic insecticides other than imdacloprid. I don't know if they were all organophosphates, but they certainly all do smell like dead rats. This makes them unsuitable for indoor use. Anyone know about anything less smelly shich will get down to where the mealies like to hide? Dell in PA where something labeled "Cyrtanthus elatus x falcatus" is in bloom. Also blooming, two weak white crocuses (ochroleucus?) and a pale pink colchicum which I don't remember planting. From msittner@mcn.org Sat Nov 15 11:28:04 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031115075208.00e07700@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Oxalis--TOW Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 08:11:38 -0800 Dear All Thanks Robin for establishing the name we should be calling the plant we have been discussing. Is it from tropical Africa or South America or do we know? >The plant that has been discussed is Oxalis articulata forma crassipes I quickly filled up the area of my garden that is protected from the rain so many things that might like less rain get tested. What I have found surprising is that most of the South African Oxalis seem able to cope with my excessive winter rainfall here in Northern California even when they are from areas that are quite dry. This is true of Oxalis obtusa. Oxalis ambigua which is a white flowered species from South Africa that blooms in the fall is an exception. It has started out nicely and looked horrible after being rained on (and hailed on once) so I keep it in my sheltered area. I would suspect that some of the Oxalis that don't bloom for me could be unhappy with the extra rain and cooler summers but they still grow. I have found that some species can tolerate being planted in shallow pots and bloom wonderfully while others really need a deep pot to bloom reliably. Michael Vassar alerted me to that. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From eagle85@flash.net Sat Nov 15 11:42:54 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: imidacloprid Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 08:30:52 -0800 dells@voicenet.comDoug Westfall dells@voicenet.com1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > > I have used Diazanon as well as systemic insecticides other than > imdacloprid. I don't know if they were all organophosphates, but they > certainly all do smell like dead rats. This makes them unsuitable for > indoor use. Anyone know about anything less smelly shich will get > down to where the mealies like to hide? > > Dell in PA ************ Dell, That is exactly what imidacloprid does. You dont have to "over use" it. Just get rid of the mealies! Doug From msittner@mcn.org Sat Nov 15 13:39:54 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031115095502.00e06820@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: References Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:33:41 -0800 Hi All and especially Jane, I was wondering whether we needed to put the references on the wiki pages in the same way. Usually bibliographies start with the author, but listing them that way in a sentence seems awkward. I think the Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs will be an excellent resource for so many of the Cape Bulbs. But if I add it as Manning, John, Peter Goldblatt and Dee Snijman, The Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs (Portland, Timber Press, 2002)and a description it just doesn't seem to read very well. I started thinking what a pain it would be to have to enter that information for all the South African genera we already have wiki pages for. Then it occurred to me that we could use the wiki for Jane's project. It wouldn't be nearly as sophisticated as what she planned, but perhaps it would be a start. On the main wiki page we could create a bibliography of reference books. Then on the genus pages we could link to the bibliography using a code for whatever book we are referencing. We'd have to come up with a shorthand for each book so people could quickly find it if they wished to know all the details. I suppose we could use a numbering system, but then the books wouldn't be alphabetical. So I'd suggest author and date as Jane initially proposed as a possibility and hope that some of the more prolific writers haven't published a lot in the same year, at least not major works like we would be adding. How I would envision this would be adding a sentence for the reference to each genus page it applied to. So in using my example above, I could paste the sentence below on all the appropriate genera for the Cape: References on the Cape Floral province species can be found in Manning et. al. (2002). I'd enter the author and date like this: [Manning et.al. (2002) | url for wiki references page] That would link the specific reference to the wiki page where the full details could be found. Obviously not everyone would be able to figure out how to do this, but if Jane would volunteer to help those people who had information, but didn't want to add it, since this was her original idea, I think it might work. In the long run it would save time and make the wiki pages easier to read for most of the people who won't care about references, but still would give them for those who did care. And since the question of books always comes up with people who are new to the subject we'd be creating a general list at the same time. What does everyone think of this idea? Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From hamish.sloan@virgin.net Sat Nov 15 14:09:07 2003 Message-Id: <01C3ABAB.B75898E0.hamish.sloan@virgin.net> From: Hamish Sloan Subject: Landscaping with Bulbs--TOW Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 19:06:53 -0000 Hello All, Some time back Jim S wrote about his naturalizing daffs: They look very nice when in bloom, and we do not cut the grass and weeds in those areas until the foliage has started to yellow off. I don't see much increase in the bulbs so far. I assume this is due to inadequate fertilizer and excessive competition from grass. I've found it only necessary here to leave the daffs for six weeks after the flowers first fade before cutting down the foliage. Six weeks worth of development seems to be enough for the following years flower crop to form. I have certainly found that a good dose of general fertilizer scattered over the whole area of the naturalization to be well worth while in terms of the next years flower crop. I use an ordinary general fertilizer during this recovery period, if I remember, I give a second or even a third dose at two week intervals but do water in if you are going to give more than one dose. We have a commonly available one here called Growmore originally developed for veggie growing in WW2! (I use this for the lawns generally rather than pay through the nose for the specialist products.) One reason for a lower crop of flowers in the second year is that newly planted areas seem to split the bulbs or form many offsets as a reaction to the trauma of the transplanting. They are often dug too soon by the growers in any case, possibly not even my suggested six week recovery period allowed, so that the bulb has not had time to form the next flower bud or one that is there aborts because of this mis-treatment. That other amaryllid, nerine, is like this in its reaction. Once established, naturalized daffodils do not seem to be affected by competition from the grasses. Their roots go deeper. An old planting may seem to regress due to overcrowding. Any of my larger clumps appear to flower better round the edges of the clump, so I lift groups here and there every several years (NO, I don't count the years! time flies away fast enough as it is.) and replant immediately in the very early Autumn. Daffodils do like a long settling period to get well established before the Spring. Regards Hamish Wettish zone 9 - and very wet now - in the central south UK (Please put where you are - it tells a lot about your growing conditions) From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Sat Nov 15 15:28:23 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20031116072908.013b7650@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: BX49 - cycles Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 07:29:08 +1100 At 10:47 14/11/03 -0800, you wrote: >I see that Dell added a "cycles" note on the species in the BX49. But >I'm not familiar with "cycle" used in this context. Does that mean >when it blooms? there are a lot of "W's" is it when they are dormant? > Sam, The cycle is their growth cycle.... i.e when they are in growth. Basically you tend to find that plants are winter or summer growers (I know this is a generalisation, but you get the idea ) which gives you an idea when to expect leaves etc. Flowers of course will just depend on the plant type as some flower at beginning, during or end of the leaves depending what they are. That is my understanding of the cycles that Dell sent, but I am more than happy to be corrected if I am wrong ('cause then I'll know what it REALLY means ). Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Nov 15 20:23:15 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031115125219.00b80668@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: References Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 13:04:24 -0800 I don't really understand the wiki the way Mary Sue and the other managers of it do, but now that I know how to post pictures and edit the genus pages, I guess I could work on a References page too. It would not take as long as uploading pictures does (I live in the country and have a slow phone connection). When you figure out what you want done, tell me about it. If we limit the references to books (no journal articles) the size should remain manageable. The basic information needed is author(s) with FULL NAMES, please (not just initials, you scientists), date of publication, and full title (including subtitle). It also helps to have the publisher's name, because some books are published by different presses in different countries (known as copublication; typical example is Timber Press in the USA and Batsford in the UK) and the ISBN number, which is a quick way to order a book. All this information can normally be found on the reverse of the title page. Mary Sue's concern -- " So I'd suggest author and date as Jane initially proposed as a possibility and hope that some of the more prolific writers haven't published a lot in the same year" -- is conventionally addressed by adding letters to the dates, e.g., 1981a, 1981b. I think a BRIEF annotation would be helpful with the entries -- no more than one sentence, and perhaps not even a full sentence. Examples: "Standard work on the genus." "Color photos of 500 plants." "In Japanese with English summary and Latin descriptions." "Outdated but interesting." "Riddled with errors, but useful for color photos." Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat Nov 15 18:15:10 2003 Message-Id: <3FB6B37D.9020908@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: References Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:15:09 -0500 Mary Sue: I think you would need the code system for books containing numerous genus. In that case a code or a two letter designation could be used to refer to each book. Books that are a single genus like the Cyclamen or the Galanthus work could be listed as just that. For example for the Phillips & Rix book it would be { PR} On the Fritillaria sibthorpiana image link would be PR page 95 or something like that. On the Galanthus elwesii image link would be PR page 13, 15 or BDG pg. 7, 32, 166, 341 ( Bishop, Davis & Grimshaw) A Monograph of Cultivated Galanthus I would hope that we could designate one person or a team to upload the reference material for each genus. I think the format would be critical going forward. Time should be spent getting it right before the time is spent to create the references. Now any volunteers? Arnold From onager@midtown.net Sat Nov 15 21:04:12 2003 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20031115180201.01c65638@pop3.midtown.net> From: Joyce Miller Subject: imidacloprid Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:03:28 -0800 Doug and all, Does anyone know the dilution of Imidacloprid for orchids? My container only describes use on trees. Kind regards, Joyce Miller Joyce E. Miller mailto:onager@midtown.net Zone USDA 9A Summer highs 100+degrees F for several to many days. Winter lows 27 degrees F From eagle85@flash.net Sat Nov 15 23:26:02 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: imidacloprid Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:13:55 -0800 Joyce MillerDoug Westfall onager@midtown.net1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Doug and all, > Does anyone know the dilution of Imidacloprid for orchids? My > container only describes use on trees. > > Kind regards, Joyce Miller > > Joyce E. Miller mailto:onager@midtown.net > Zone USDA 9A Summer highs 100+degrees F for several to many days. Winter > lows 27 degrees F ^^^^^ Joyce, Use 1 (one) oz. per gallon of water. If ht einfestation is bad, use up to 2 oz per gallon. I would not feel safe in recommending more than that. Don't be afraid of using it as a spray - esp. on the mealies (if you can see them. The stuff WORKS. Best wishes, Doug From samclan@redshift.com Sat Nov 15 23:17:03 2003 Message-Id: <3FB6FA54.7040108@redshift.com> From: Shirley Meneice Subject: imidacloprid Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:17:24 -0800 I've been mixing diatomaceous earth into my potting mixes and having some success in dealing with the mealies. It's worth a try. Shirley Meneice, Zone 9 or 19 dells@voicenet.com wrote: > I have used Diazanon as well as systemic insecticides other than > imdacloprid. I don't know if they were all organophosphates, but they > certainly all do smell like dead rats. This makes them unsuitable for > indoor use. Anyone know about anything less smelly shich will get > down to where the mealies like to hide? > > Dell in PA > > where something labeled "Cyrtanthus elatus x falcatus" is in > bloom. Also blooming, two weak white crocuses (ochroleucus?) and a > pale pink colchicum which I don't remember planting. > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > . > From samclan@redshift.com Sat Nov 15 23:56:54 2003 Message-Id: <3FB703B1.8080700@redshift.com> From: Shirley Meneice Subject: References Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:57:21 -0800 I like your annotations, which could be very useful! S.A.M. Jane McGary wrote: > I don't really understand the wiki the way Mary Sue and the other > managers of it do, but now that I know how to post pictures and edit the > genus pages, I guess I could work on a References page too. It would not > take as long as uploading pictures does (I live in the country and have > a slow phone connection). When you figure out what you want done, tell > me about it. > > If we limit the references to books (no journal articles) the size > should remain manageable. The basic information needed is author(s) with > FULL NAMES, please (not just initials, you scientists), date of > publication, and full title (including subtitle). It also helps to have > the publisher's name, because some books are published by different > presses in different countries (known as copublication; typical example > is Timber Press in the USA and Batsford in the UK) and the ISBN number, > which is a quick way to order a book. All this information can normally > be found on the reverse of the title page. > > Mary Sue's concern -- " So I'd suggest author and date as Jane > initially proposed as a possibility and hope that some of the more > prolific writers haven't published a lot in the same year" -- is > conventionally addressed by adding letters to the dates, e.g., 1981a, > 1981b. > > I think a BRIEF annotation would be helpful with the entries -- no more > than one sentence, and perhaps not even a full sentence. Examples: > "Standard work on the genus." "Color photos of 500 plants." "In Japanese > with English summary and Latin descriptions." "Outdated but > interesting." "Riddled with errors, but useful for color photos." > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon, USA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > . > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun Nov 16 23:20:01 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Lewisia Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 18:30:20 -0600 Dear all; Today's email brought a list from Beaver Creek Nursery in WA state. They offer seed of around 17 sp and hybrid Lewisia. Plus plants of 10 types. Check out: http://www.rockgardenplants.com/seedcatmain.htm Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From brian.whyer@which.net Sun Nov 16 19:41:35 2003 Message-Id: <004f01c3aca3$8e655c40$414cfd3e@2CVEVE1> From: "Brian Whyer" Subject: Deeper planting bulbs Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 00:41:34 -0000 In a recent UK TV programme it was implied that planting bulbs deeper than "normal" discouraged bulbs from increasing by side bulblets, and consequently gave larger flowers and continuing flowering in subsequent years. In this case large flowered tulip hybrids were the example. The commentary I think said "deeper planting, equals cooler bulbs, larger flowers, longer bulb life", though presumably less bulb increase. Is this "cooler bulbs point" a valid argument for bulbs like tulips, or indeed bulbs in general? E.g. some reticulate irises which split up much more readily than tulips in my experience. Brian Whyer, zone 8'ish, Buckinghamshire, England. From brian.whyer@which.net Sun Nov 16 19:41:56 2003 Message-Id: <005001c3aca3$9a9a3530$414cfd3e@2CVEVE1> From: "Brian Whyer" Subject: imidacloprid Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 00:41:55 -0000 > I have used Diazanon as well as systemic insecticides other than > imdacloprid. I don't know if they were all organophosphates, but they > certainly all do smell like dead rats. This makes them unsuitable for > indoor use. Anyone know about anything less smelly shich will get > down to where the mealies like to hide? The product available in the UK, under the Provado trade name has practically no strong smell, unlike virtually all previous insecticides I have used. At least to my nose. It is available in powder, ready-made liquid and dilutable liquid form. The latter has sunflower oil in it, and gives an oily emulsion, maybe so it wets and clings to mealy bugs and the like. Brian Whyer, zone 8'ish, Buckinghamshire, England From msittner@mcn.org Mon Nov 17 01:17:58 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031116212305.00d28ba0@mail.mcn.org> From: John Ingram (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Sinningia sp. as garden plants Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 21:23:16 -0800 Here is my intro: I have been growing Sinningias since I was a wee lad. My first one was given to me by an orchid grower when I was in Santa Barbara on my internship in college. It was S. cardinalis. This has now been moved by thosee over active splitter taxonomists to something I can't remember at the moment. Since then I got several of the mini's that are popular as houseplants. These I had housed in my 80 gallon terrarium in my dorm room with all the other lush things I loved at the time, orchids, creeping ficus, mini begonias, etc. >From there I went to Longwood Gardens for yet another internship. Here I got to work with the Gesneriad collection. I don't remember getting any plants from here at the time but I might have. They are very generous with material if you ask through the proper channels. I also did my internship report on Sinningias. I have since lost this article. At the time, I was corresponding with Alain Chautems at the Zurich Botanical Garden. This was pre-internet and responses were slow. I am still in contact with Alain about Sinningias. He is a wonderful resource for almost all the gesneriads. Now, on to Sinningias as garden plants. There are several species that are hardy to zone 7. I am trying a few plants in Ohio at my uncle's house. His conditions are supposed to be z5 but the winters are much more mild than what is expeccted of that zone so I am hopeful. If I can get Agapanthus, Dahlias, and palm trees to over winter in his yard, I think the sinningias will too. The two that I planted are S. sellovii and tubiflora. Both do really well here in So Cal as garden plants. The tubiflora is a little bit of a runner with soft felty leaves and large pure white tubular flowers. The sellovii is a nice 2' mound of evergreen foliage with small dusky salmon/red flowers produced by the thousands. I have donated seeds of these to the BX for others to try. They grow to flowering size in about 8 months, maybe less with good fertiliser. The other species that offer possibilities were stated in an email on the gesnerophiles list by Don Tomso. I have copied it here with permission. "Today I finally made a final judgement call on which Sinningia species endured our rather hard winter. I did this by digging around in the bed where they were growing, and looking for signs of life. Except in one case (which I describe below), none of the plants had yet sprouted from their winter dormancy. The winter just past was the first really cold one we've experienced since I began evaluating Sinningia hardiness. By 'really cold,' I mean that temps were into the single-digit (F) range on more than one night, and that we had sustained temps below freezing for several days at a time on a few occassions. This is the type of weather that puts us into USDA zone 7 here in central NC, whereas for the past few years we've had zone 8 or even zone 9 types of temperatures (lows in the teens or twenties). I will point out that the summer preceding this winter gave us a drought of epic proportions, the worst in over 100 years. I was overwhelmed with other demands and failed to water my Sinningia plots regularly enough. Consequently, most of the species were not as large or robust as they could have been when the season ended. This could very well have influenced hardiness. This is year 3 of the hardiness trial. Species which had survived previous moderate winters include: S. conspicua S. aff. reitzii 'Black Hill' S. sellovii S. elatior S. lineata An S. 'Apricot Bouquet' x self seedling with a strong S. warmingii-like look to it. I call this hybrid S. 'Friend of the Devil' right now. S. nivalis and S. allagophylla may also have been in the bed, but I had a dog-induced labeling loss that rendered a few IDs murky. At any rate, this spring I witnessed a depressing lack of growth from the test plot, so I waited and waited. At last, I saw some good-looking shoots emerging from an unexpected quarter--S. lineata was back! Both test specimens emerged and are looking pretty good. This species has grown but not flowered in the test plot, for reasons unknown. I suspect too much sun or inconsistent moisture. This year I will address the later problem if possible, and see if I can induce flowers. I would never have identified this species as a candidate for hardiness, and it landed in the trial simply out of a glut of tubers at the time of planting. Go figure. I'm exceedingly happy about this, though, since this species has figured prominently in many of my crosses. Consequently, I now have quite a bit of hybrid material to evaluate for hardiness in the years to come. I dug up and relocated the huge S. 'Friend of the Devil' tuber earlier this year, and it looked totally intact. Since then, it has failed to begin growth, so I don't know exactly what is happening, except that transplanting may have set it back. At any rate, seeing no other shoots, I dug into the test plot today, looking for tuber remnants as I did so. I found quite a few decayed and/or dessicated husks of dead tubers, confirming my initial diagnosis of gruesome death for most of the species. As I lost faith, I became more careless. Of course, it was shortly thereafter that I turned up a (thoroughly broken) white shoot that looked quite a bit like an underground Sinningia sprout. A careful search of the area turned up not one, but three good-sized and firm tubers, two of which showed definite sprouts. They had a very distinct structure, irregular, connected by underground stems, and spread about in a peculiar fashion. Undoubtedly, these belong to S. aff reitzii 'Black Hill,' an idea which is of course supported by their location in the test plot. So, I now add this species to the 'pretty darned hardy' list. Additionally, the fact that it not only survived, but obviously spread to form a little colony, is very encouraging from a gardening perspective, since the gradual growth of a clump would lend it some advantage as a flowerbed specimen. Its inclination to push new tubers out and down from the parent tuber is certain to be a survival advantage in cold-winter areas. In mid-season I replanted one of these plants to a shadier location, since it seemed to suffer in bright sun, so I am now closely monitoring the second location to see if the other plant sprouts. One last tuber turned up during my rooting around. It is a pretty typical- looking rounded tuber, lacking any shoots but obviously intact. I have planted it to await growth and identification, since it came from the ambiguous section of the plot. Sadly, I can't name the species, although it is almost certainly S. elatior or S. allagophylla, and possibly S. nivalis. S. conspicua clearly died. Surprisingly, about 20 S. sellovii plants also died a true and awful death. This species had endured 4 years in my garden. To recap, S. lineata and S. aff. reitzii 'Black Hill' are truly hardy to at least single-digit temps. S. warmingii (or a hybrid thereof) is likely hardy as well, but I must wait for growth to resume to conclude that. One other terrestrial-type species is alive, and I will ID it as soon as possible to share with the list. S. conspicua can endure 20 and even teen temps, but will apparently rot out at sub-10 temps. Ditto for S. sellovii, widely considered one of the hardier species. Of course, these are all based on one man's experiences, in one garden, in one year of cold temps, so your interpretations (and mine) must be tempered w/ some caution. Now, the exciting thing to me is that one of my favorite hybrids right now is my primary cross between S. iarae and S. aff. reitzii 'Black Hill,' both of which appear hardy. The hybrid, which I'm calling S. 'Dire Wolf' to avoid writing out the longer cross name, is very pretty and floriferous, and I have great hopes for it as a garden specimen now. The other thing I did out there today was plant a new crop of species to be evaluated, including S. tubiflora, S. sceptrum, two collections of S. elatior, S. warmingii, and S. curtiflora. With any luck, these will become established and provide some more information in years to come. I will continue to work with the various hardy species and hybrids as well, of course, and I will keep you all posted as I make more observations! Here are a few updates on the hardiness report from last night: --The S. lineata tubers are not buried very deeply--just beneath the surface, and now covered with about 1 inch of pine bark mulch. Over the winter, they were quite shallow--maybe 1/2 inch below the surface. I'm as suprised as anyone about their survival, as I said. I was sure that rot would get them, even if the cold didn't. I'll photograph them soon to share w/ the list. Their top growth is currently about 3" tall and about 4" across and expanding rapidly. --The S. 'Friend of the Devil' tuber that I relocated has been found and re- re-located. It had something like 30 to 50 shoots emerging from it when I dug it up, so it is clearly alive and well. For those who don't remember, this is the giant tuber that I dug up in February, which is easily the size of a cantaloupe. This will produce a shrub-sized plant in no time, unless it is trampled by my dog. This plant is a monster, and I'll take cuttings to share around this year, which won't be a problem as it is very prolific. This is a hybrid, derived from S. 'Apricot Bouquet,' but showing a very strong resemblance to it's S. warmingii progenitor." This is all very good news. For those of us onthe wst coast who never see temps below 20F. We should all be able to grow them as easily as we do Hemerocallis or Amaryllis. If anyone has other outdoor info, I would greatly appreciate hearing about it. I have a nice crop of seedlings coming along of S. douglasii - a rare red form, sellovii, and a few mixed hybrids. I am also looking into intergenreic crosses with Paliavana and Vanhouttea. The former are large bushes from Brasil with huge flowers. They are evergreen, drought tolerant and have garden potential in milder climates such as mine. Vanhoutteas are a little more difficult to cultivate but I am hoping that the hybrids will be easier, more compact and more floriferous. Many possibilities, so little time. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. Soon to become www.floralarchitecture.com check it out soon 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com Mon Nov 17 01:27:19 2003 Message-Id: From: Nan Sterman Subject: Deeper planting bulbs Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:27:16 -0800 >In a recent UK TV programme it was implied that planting bulbs deeper >than "normal" discouraged bulbs from increasing by side bulblets, and >consequently gave larger flowers and continuing flowering in subsequent >years. In this case large flowered tulip hybrids were the example. The >commentary I think said "deeper planting, equals cooler bulbs, larger >flowers, longer bulb life", though presumably less bulb increase. >Is this "cooler bulbs point" a valid argument for bulbs like tulips, or >indeed bulbs in general? E.g. some reticulate irises which split up much >more readily than tulips in my experience. I did some research on lilies (Asiatic and Oriental) for an article I wrote last year and the expert I consulted also recommended deep planting, in part because the deeper the cooler, and in part because the deeper, the better the root system and the sturdier the stem which, especially with lilies, tends to be a weak point. I am sure you've seen lilies splayed out on the ground with their over heavy blooms just weighing down the poor stems. Supposedly planting bulbs deeper is a way to counter this phenomenon. -- +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Nan Sterman Plant Soup (TM) PO Box 231034 Encinitas, CA 92023 760.634.2902 (voice) Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com 760.634.2957 (fax) +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Mon Nov 17 02:37:34 2003 Message-Id: <20031117073733.5158.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Deeper planting bulbs Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:37:33 -0800 (PST) I know that I planted some sinningias deeper to get some roots on the multiple stems. I not only got roots, I got multiple bulbs. The stems increased above the original bulb to form additional bulbs (properly tubers) at the correct depth for the plant. I removed the secondary tubers and planted them seperately. And since, the original tuber has sprouted again. So, I can get multiple plants from 1. I am very excited about this. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. Soon to become www.floralarchitecture.com check it out soon 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon Nov 17 03:55:13 2003 Message-Id: <001601c3ace8$8c664a90$ab352ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Deeper planting bulbs Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:55:27 -0000 hi all This weekend I attended a talk by Ian Young from Aberdeen and the ex President of Scottish Rock. He covered the topic of how deep to plant bulbs. He said that bulbs are much happier deep and will spend years pulling themselves down at the expense of flowers. He showed us bulbs of Frits and Narcissus that were elongating to go deeper. One slide showed a Narcissus bulb which over three years had pulled itself deeper. Two old dried up bulbs were above the new bulb. Only recently I had dug up some Galanthus which had two bulbs seperated by an elongated bulb. If anyone wants to see a photo email me. This also goes for all round bulb seeds like Crocus, Narcissus, Galanthus. Not Frits which are blown by the wind. He plants the seeds half way down the pot! We say slides to show the differences in depth. I highly recommend that you book Ian Young, and his wife Maggy, for a talk or two. The two talks I was present at last weekend were the best I have ever seen. I learnt so much. I know this has nother to do with bulbils but it is relevent. Mark N Ireland From dells@voicenet.com Mon Nov 17 06:28:22 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 49 CLOSED Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:26:03 -0500 Packages will go into the mail on Monday. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Mon Nov 17 09:03:51 2003 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476D33BB3@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: References Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:03:58 -0600 Hi Mary Sue: You can use a short abbreviation of any part of the bibliography to link back to the full citation. In your example there is no reason why Color Encyc. Cape Bulbs couldn't be the link. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: Mary Sue Ittner [mailto:msittner@mcn.org] Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2003 12:34 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] References Hi All and especially Jane, I was wondering whether we needed to put the references on the wiki pages in the same way. Usually bibliographies start with the author, but listing them that way in a sentence seems awkward. I think the Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs will be an excellent resource for so many of the Cape Bulbs. But if I add it as Manning, John, Peter Goldblatt and Dee Snijman, The Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs (Portland, Timber Press, 2002)and a description it just doesn't seem to read very well. I started thinking what a pain it would be to have to enter that information for all the South African genera we already have wiki pages for. Then it occurred to me that we could use the wiki for Jane's project. It wouldn't be nearly as sophisticated as what she planned, but perhaps it would be a start. On the main wiki page we could create a bibliography of reference books. Then on the genus pages we could link to the bibliography using a code for whatever book we are referencing. We'd have to come up with a shorthand for each book so people could quickly find it if they wished to know all the details. I suppose we could use a numbering system, but then the books wouldn't be alphabetical. So I'd suggest author and date as Jane initially proposed as a possibility and hope that some of the more prolific writers haven't published a lot in the same year, at least not major works like we would be adding. How I would envision this would be adding a sentence for the reference to each genus page it applied to. So in using my example above, I could paste the sentence below on all the appropriate genera for the Cape: References on the Cape Floral province species can be found in Manning et. al. (2002). I'd enter the author and date like this: [Manning et.al. (2002) | url for wiki references page] That would link the specific reference to the wiki page where the full details could be found. Obviously not everyone would be able to figure out how to do this, but if Jane would volunteer to help those people who had information, but didn't want to add it, since this was her original idea, I think it might work. In the long run it would save time and make the wiki pages easier to read for most of the people who won't care about references, but still would give them for those who did care. And since the question of books always comes up with people who are new to the subject we'd be creating a general list at the same time. What does everyone think of this idea? Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From dejager@bulbargence.com Mon Nov 17 10:19:28 2003 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Deeper planting bulbs Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:18:47 +0100 Dear Mark, Some years ago I also attended a a talk given by Ian Young and I very much agree with you. He has some excellent and often original advise, well presented with lots of Scottish humor. However regrding the depth of seeds it depends very much on the species. Kind regards Lauw le 17/11/03 9:55, Mark Smyth à mark@marksgardenplants.com a écrit : This weekend I attended a talk by Ian Young from Aberdeen and the ex > President of Scottish Rock. He covered the topic of how deep to plant bulbs. > He said that bulbs are much happier deep and will spend years pulling > themselves down at the expense of flowers. He showed us bulbs of Frits and > Narcissus that were elongating to go deeper. One slide showed a Narcissus > bulb which over three years had pulled itself deeper. Two old dried up bulbs > were above the new bulb. Only recently I had dug up some Galanthus which had > two bulbs seperated by an elongated bulb. If anyone wants to see a photo > email me. > > This also goes for all round bulb seeds like Crocus, Narcissus, Galanthus. > Not Frits which are blown by the wind. He plants the seeds half way down the > pot! We say slides to show the differences in depth. > > I highly recommend that you book Ian Young, and his wife Maggy, for a talk > or two. The two talks I was present at last weekend were the best I have > ever seen. I learnt so much. Lauw de Jager http://www.bulbargence.com South of France (zone 8 Olivier) From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon Nov 17 10:58:43 2003 Message-Id: <000c01c3ad23$b4a9e6c0$1b322ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: seed depth Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:58:55 -0000 hi Lauw The advice he gave was to plant the seeds halfway down a 4 inch pot so they didnt waste energy pulling themselves deeper. This applied to Narcissus, Crocus, Galanthus and Colchicums. He showed us slides of his experiments and it was clear that those planted deep were better plants and in some cases flowered a year earlier. I'll be trying it his way next year Mark N Ireland From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Nov 17 14:44:33 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031117092418.00b88ff8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Deeper planting bulbs Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:25:57 -0800 Nan Sterman wrote, >I did some research on lilies (Asiatic and Oriental) for an article I >wrote last year and the expert I consulted also recommended deep planting, >in part because the deeper the cooler, and in part because the deeper, the >better the root system and the sturdier the stem which, especially with >lilies, tends to be a weak point. I am sure you've seen lilies splayed >out on the ground with their over heavy blooms just weighing down the poor >stems. Supposedly planting bulbs deeper is a way to counter this phenomenon. In addition, an even more important reason to plant lily bulbs deeply is that many of the species and their hybrids produce roots on the stems above the bulb, and these roots both anchor and nourish the plants. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From davidxvictor@mailblocks.com Mon Nov 17 13:34:07 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20031117181507.00b21ac8@app4.mailblocks.com> From: David Victor Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 10, Issue 17 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:31:48 +0000 Mary Sue wrote: >Dear David and Robin, > >Is there any chance David of your posting pictures to the wiki of O. >cathara, O. gracilis, and O. heidelbergensis? I'm sorry that I didn't reply earlier, but we were away for a long week-end to celebrate our 20th wedding anniversary. Yes, I will post some as soon as I have them developed - they are all on 35mm slides. >So what are we to conclude is the correct name for Lauw's plants, the ones >Andrew B. is talking about and Uli's and presumably the ones in my archives >that were recommended for the south. Are they all the same plant and should >it be more correctly named Oxalis articulata forma crassipes? Or is this >plant really Oxalis hirta? I think that there were three issues involved in this conversation, which became a little confused. My understanding of the three is as follows: 1. You raised references to a South American plant called O. crassipes. I have not been able to find any material referencing this, including Index Kewensis. If it ever has been properly published, it should be on IK. I deduce that, in some way, this is a wild goose chase that will lead nowhere. 2. O. crassipes Urb. This was described and published in 1884 and was the first valid use of the epithet crassipes within Oxalis. In 1982, Lourteig deduced that it was not a separate species and clumped it into O. articulata as forma crassipes (Urb) Lourteig. 3. O. crassipes L. Bolus. This refers to a plant that was described in 1928 under this name. However, the name had already been used and was, thus, invalid. What's more, Salter deduced that it was not a separate species and clumped it into O. hirta var. tenuicaulis R. Knuth. To sum it up: 1 probably doesn't exist, 2 is the plant that we were originally discussing and 3 is a different plant altogether, which we should reference under the name O. hirta var. tenuicaulis R. Knuth. Best regards, David Victor From msittner@mcn.org Mon Nov 17 14:01:02 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031117104944.00b50630@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: South African Oxalis source Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:53:38 -0800 Dear All, Christiaan from South Africa has agreed to let me pass on the following information: "Another supplier of Oxalis bulbs are Sheilam cactus nursery, at Robertson (South Africa). They supplied me with the following: caprina, carnosa, ciliaris, compressa, convexula, dichotoma, fergusoniae, flava, hirta, livida, obtusa, pardalis f klaasvoogdensis, pes-caprae, polyphylla, pubescens, pulchella, tomentosa, viscidula. I do not know whether they have a web site (have not try to look for one), but their e-mail address is: sheilam@lando.co.za." No mention if they export, but perhaps someone could email them and let us know. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Mon Nov 17 14:00:51 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031117092315.00b50670@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Oxalis on the wiki Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:58:55 -0800 Dear All, Here are a few follow-ups to our topic of the week. Bill Dijk has posted a lot of images to the Oxalis pages on the wiki. Unfortunately, he did not realize that I had created a special page for all the South African species since already the Oxalis page was getting to be very long. So I have attempted to redo the page to pull off his images of the South African species and add them to the other page. So don't panic Bill. Your images are still there! http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Oxalis http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalis Bill's images of Oxalis in mass flowering once again demonstrate how good he is at growing bulbs and remind me of why Diana Chapman first attracted me to this genus by describing her benches as dazzling! I need some help with a few of them however. He has this picture of Oxalis cernua which he says is a double yellow. The picture is just of leaves however. Looking in the Manual of Bulbs it says Oxalis cernua is a synonym of Oxalis pes-caprae. So should this be listed on the South African page under that Oxalis? I have tentatively moved it there. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis-cernua-double-yellow.jpg He has a picture of Oxalis peridicaria. Short of a web search which I didn't have time to do all I can find out about this one is that Paul Tyerman grows it. Can anyone tell me about it so I know where it belongs? He also has a picture of Oxalis fabaefolia. This one was discussed on the Australian list and someone gave a reference for it that put it in South Africa so I have moved it there. Also it seems to be confused with Oxalis namaquana but I think the consensus was that they were separate species. Is this right? The Manual of Bulbs describes Oxalis lobata which he also pictures as being from Chile. Is this correct? Does anyone want to write some text for it for the wiki page? He also has a picture of Oxalis tetraphylla which we discussed earlier in the year when it was mixed up with Oxalis triangularis. He has it as a synonym of Oxalis deppei. Which name is preferred, tetraphylla or deppei? I have put it under tetraphylla since that is how it was addressed in our earlier discussion. What do people think we should do with cultivar names? I notice there are several names for the various forms of Oxalis purpurea. Are these official? Should I be including them in the wiki names as a cultivar name or just write that say in California this form of Oxalis purpurea with purple leaves in known as Garnet and in New Zealand it is known as Nigrescens. Ooh I really like that color of the Oxalis pardalis flower although I read that it comes in many different colors (white, yellow, lilac, deep pink, purple or reddish-purple). Interesting that the one Bill shows is orange which isn't mentioned. I guess it needs to be one I look for next year. Thanks all of you in advance for helping me to make our wiki page accurate. Mary Sue From DaveKarn@aol.com Mon Nov 17 15:09:07 2003 Message-Id: <104.39a4ff4e.2cea84d7@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: Deeper planting bulbs Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:08:55 EST In a message dated 16-Nov-03 4:41:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, brian.whyer@which.net writes: > . . . planting bulbs deeper than "normal" discouraged bulbs from increasing > by side bulblets, and consequently gave larger flowers and continuing > flowering in subsequent > years. In this case large flowered tulip hybrids were the example. The > commentary I think said "deeper planting, equals cooler bulbs, larger flowers, > longer bulb life," though presumably less bulb increase. Is this "cooler bulbs > point" a valid argument for bulbs like tulips, or indeed bulbs in general? > e.g. some reticulate irises which split up much > more readily than tulips in my experience. Hello all ~ In the commercial growing of daffodils ( Narcissus ), primarily the 4n hybrids, a "rule of thumb" is that shallower planting can contribute to more rapid increase. In a business based on the selling of dry bulbs, this can be an important consideration! On the other hand, planting a daffodil somewhat deeper ( 5-7" of soil over the tip of the bulb ) than would be considered normal ( 2-4" of soil over the tip of the bulb ) does, indeed, contribute to a slowed rate of multiplication. The reason is simple. It takes more energy to grow from a depth than it does to just poke above the surface to reach the light. With less total energy available, multiplication ( a function of stored energy ) is retarded. In this case, it's an important consideration when planting daffodils in the landscape where the intention is to keep them for a longer time before being forced to dig and separate them to improve flowering that tapers off as the bulbs increase and become crowded. Tunicate bulbs ( generally ) produce an unbranched mass of roots from the basal plate -- an important consideration to bear in mind. To insure long term success in landscape plantings, one has to loosen the soil to a depth of at least 18" to accommodate this trait. It is also helpful to work in some moderate analysis fertilizer at that depth some time before planting begins. Also, tunicate bulbs appreciate substantial moisture during their period of growth. Daffodils can handle at least an inch of water per week -- assuming the soil is friable enough for the excess to drain away. They also respond better when kept dryish during Summer dormancy. I would agree with the suggestions that have been made with respect to planting depth for seed of this type ( round, hard, black seed ). I generally plant my daffodil seed at least an inch to an inch and a half deep in the indigenous soil in full sun and find this works just fine. Although I've not always been able to follow the advice about planting the seed as soon as it is falls from the capsule, it is probably wise to do so. When fresh, the seed is plump and shiny black. As it dries in preparation for dormancy, it shrinks and becomes matte black. The dormancy inhibitors formed during this process have to be washed away by rainfall before the seed will sprout. In other words, planted fresh in June in this climate one will often see the little spears of growth in late Fall. Planted in Spring ( seed harvested the previous June ), the seed will not germinate until the following Spring. I know -- been there, done that! Best, Dave Karnstedt Cascade Daffodils Silverton, Oregon USA 97281-0237 Cool Mediterranean climate -- wet Winters, hot and dry Summers; USDA Zone 7-8 . From DaveKarn@aol.com Mon Nov 17 15:35:12 2003 Message-Id: <139.27e989a7.2cea8af6@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: REPLY: [pbs] Deeper planting bulbs Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:35:02 EST Hello ~ > . . .the expert I consulted also recommended deep planting, in part because > the deeper the cooler, and in part because the deeper, the better the root > system and the sturdier the stem which, especially with lilies, tends to be a > weak point. I am sure you've seen lilies splayed out on the ground with > their over heavy blooms just weighing down the poor > stems. Supposedly planting bulbs deeper is a way to counter this > phenomenon. Whether the stem of a given lily will stand stiffly upright with its inflorescence ( within consideration ) is not necessarily influenced so much by planting depth as it is by genetics. The stems of the trumpet and Aurelian lilies of Division VI are notorious for not being able to stand on their own when in bloom without being staked (almost irrespective of planting depth). In many cases, this is because they descend from Lilium henryi, a species with a weak stem or from one of the trumpet species with weak stems. Trumpet lilies with a closer affinity to Lilium regale, on the other hand, are rather more able to stand on their own. Many of the 4n forms of these lily hybrids ( Division VI ) tend to have very strong, sturdy stems that will support the heavy inflorescence. One will occasionally find some stem weakness in the Asiatic hybrids, but it is not common, as these hybrids will hold the inflorescence on a stiffly upright stem and descend from species where this is a dominant trait. Jane and the others are certainly right, however, on the need for deep planting ( often as much as 7-8" of soil over the tip of the bulb ) as many lilies produce an abundance of roots from the underground portion of their stems. These roots serve to nourish the plant during growth and last only one season. Roots produced from the basal plate are much fewer in number, tend to be larger and heavier, are perennial in nature and serve to anchor the plant and absorb water. When planting lilies, it is important to remember that they revel in a loose, organic soil that drains well but holds some moisture. Many lilies, after blooming, do appreciate somewhat drier conditions. There are some species that do not produce stem roots, Lilium martagon is often said to be one. In my experience, this is not wholly true as a stem will sometimes produce a few. I understand that this species, being native to light woodland conditions, is not exposed to heavy winds and, thus, does not need to be firmly anchored to the soil, as would a lily native to windy grasslands. Best, Dave Karnstedt Cascade Daffodils Silverton, OR USA From msittner@mcn.org Mon Nov 17 16:35:30 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031117133050.00e0fe80@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Sinningia--TOW Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:33:21 -0800 Dear All, I see that John's introduction to the topic of the week this week missed that fact in the subject line. Sorry about that. I added it when I sent on his message, but sometimes Eudora puts back the original subject when I redirect. Thank you John for providing us with this introduction and I hope all of you who grow this genus will share your experiences. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Mon Nov 17 18:46:04 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20031118104654.00aa39e0@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Oxalis on the wiki Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:46:54 +1100 >He has a picture of Oxalis peridicaria. Short of a web search which I >didn't have time to do all I can find out about this one is that Paul >Tyerman grows it. Can anyone tell me about it so I know where it belongs? Mary Sue, O. perdicaria is VERY closely related to O. lobata (can be difficult to tell apart depending whether happy ot unhappy (i.e influences size of leaves and flowers etc). Some people regard perdicaria as a "horticultural form" of lobata but I find it odd to have assigned a species name if that were even vaguely the case. Then again, what we now have as perdicaria could have been hybridised with lobata or misnamed somewhere along the way. Certainly they are VERY close (at least what I grow as perdicaria is anyway) with the same distinct leaflet arrangements and gorgeous golden yellow flowers. > >He also has a picture of Oxalis fabaefolia. This one was discussed on the >Australian list and someone gave a reference for it that put it in South >Africa so I have moved it there. Also it seems to be confused with Oxalis >namaquana but I think the consensus was that they were separate species. Is >this right? My memory of the discussion was that what so many of us have here in Australia as O. namaquana is acutally O. fabaeifolia. I think it was worked out in that discussion that O. namaquana actually has 3 leaflets instead of the 2 the fabaeifolia has, plus the flowers on namaquana are a much stronger gold than the paler yellow that we in here have as that species (which the consensus was that it was actually fabaeifolia should look like). That's my memory of it anyway, but that doesn't mean much given how shot to pieces by CFS / ME my memory is . >What do people think we should do with cultivar names? I notice there are >several names for the various forms of Oxalis purpurea. Are these official? >Should I be including them in the wiki names as a cultivar name or just >write that say in California this form of Oxalis purpurea with purple >leaves in known as Garnet and in New Zealand it is known as Nigrescens. > Don't forget 'Rubra' in Australia, which I think may be the same thing!! Not sure about that though. I have seen the same thing labelled here as 'Garnet' and 'Rubra' so there is at least mislabelling here in Aus and if they are supposed to be different I don't know which one we actually DO have? I hope this is of some help Mary Sue. Sorry if it is garbled but I am having a bad patch with the CFS but still wanted to try to answer some of your questions. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From Mark.Wilcox4@Verizon.net Mon Nov 17 19:26:11 2003 Message-Id: <4ipirv0fneur2h0t15902b108dj7rb7odg@4ax.com> From: Mark Wilcox Subject: Sinningia--TOW Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:26:09 -0500 Dear all, Sinningia as the TOW served as a convenient reminder regarding a picture I've been meaning to upload. Will the Sinningia experts please take a look at the bottom of this page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MysteryBulbs ...and see if identification of the Sinningia now shown is possible? Thanks! Mark in DC From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Mon Nov 17 23:44:59 2003 Message-Id: <20031118044458.74273.qmail@span.corp.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Fwd: Sinningia sp. as garden plants Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:44:58 -0800 (PST) Mark Wilcox asked me the following questions and I think it is relavent to the whole list so I am posting my responses. > > I live in Washington, DC, zone 7b, and was a > recipient of your S. > sellovii seeds in the recent BX. > > While this particular species isn't mentioned in the > general reference > works I have available, it's advised to start seeds > of the genus in > February for the northern hemisphere. As you and whoever else received the seeds know, they are very fine. They do need a little bit of care in the beginning. Use a sterile commercial seed starting mix. You can start them at any time of the year. Lightly dust the seeds over the soil and mist with a spray bottle to moisten. Then I place the whole pot into a dish with several inches of water and let it absorb for several hours. Then I place the whole pot into a large ziplock bag (a 4" pot fits into a small or large freezer bag). I place the pots into an east or west window where it will not get direct sun but stay warm. If available, they can also go under grow lights. The new plants will sprout in 3-6 weeks. Once they are large enough (several sets of new leaves), move them into fresh soil. They will be growing very close together and I usually move clumps of 15-20 plants at a time into fresh media until they are large enough to thin out. Many sinningias can flower in 6 months from seed. Some, very few actually, may take a year or two. They can be fertilized with 1/4 to 1/2 strength fert from the fitst misting. The more fert, the faster they will flower. Most sinningias will take full sun once mature. Slowly move them into stronger light. For me, S. sellovii is evergreen outside in sun or shade. In colder areas, they will die down to the ground. > I and my partner were recently at Iguazu Falls, > along the > Argentine/Brazilian border, while on vacation. > While there I snapped a > picture of what certainly looks like S. sellowii > just coming into flower. > I have yet to post a picture to the wiki as an > "unknown bulb," but plan > to do so. Is this area of the world part of S. > sellovii's natural range? S. sellovii has a large range covering most of Southern Brasil so it could be possible. I would love to see your photo. I saw one Sinningia in bloom when I was there several years ago but the photo never came out for me to get a name put to it. And I was not about to crawl over the ledge to get a closer photo. > > I'll be very interested to see your pictures of the > plants in flower that > you believe will be hardy in zone 7. I have little > space in which to > garden, but am always looking for unusual geophytes, > such as Sinningia, > with which to fill it. I will try to get some photos uploaded when I get a free minute. My family is coming next week for 3 weeks and things are getting hectic tryingto ready everything. > > Lastly, are Ss bothered by any common pests or > diseases we have? You may > have covered it, but if so I don't recall. I have not had any problems with either. I do know what thrips can cause problems when they are present but they don't attract them per se. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. Soon to become www.floralarchitecture.com check it out soon 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From africanbulbs@haznet.co.za Tue Nov 18 04:42:35 2003 Message-Id: <005a01c3adba$022f9160$0100007f@ecuser62> From: "Cameron McMaster" Subject: deeper planting bulbs Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:35:51 +0200 Brian wrote: >In a recent UK TV programme it was implied that planting bulbs deeper >than "normal" discouraged bulbs from increasing by side bulblets, and >consequently gave larger flowers and continuing flowering in subsequent >years. In this case large flowered tulip hybrids were the example. The >commentary I think said "deeper planting, equals cooler bulbs, larger >flowers, longer bulb life", though presumably less bulb increase. >Is this "cooler bulbs point" a valid argument for bulbs like tulips, or >indeed bulbs in general? I'm wondering if this applies to 'bulbs' only, and not to corms such as the Iridaceae? To quote from Mary Sue's copy of Gordons Summerfield's talk at the IBSA Symposium in SA: >An aspect of planting that I > overlooked, to my detriment, for many years is the depth that one plants > mature bulbs and corms. Consider the normal growth cycle from seed. The > plant pulls itself down to the optimum level before producing flowers. So > when planting mature or near-mature bulbs/corms, err on the shallow side > rather than too deep. Too deep and you will produce spindly plants that > will finally give up the ghost. On the other hand, planted too shallow, > they might require a little more time to flowering properly. Also don't be > shy to plant your bulbs/corms grouped together ie. in the middle of the > container. I am convinced there is a symbiotic influence. Certain corms > such as Lapeirousia's, Romulea's and Hesperantha's are bell-shaped with a > flat bottom, plant these at an angle to assist their movement down to the > optimum level (I always make a note of the depth of existing bulbs/corms > when re-potting). Rhoda Napier, Western Cape Mediterranean climate with some summer rain From africanbulbs@haznet.co.za Tue Nov 18 04:42:35 2003 Message-Id: <005b01c3adba$03dad060$0100007f@ecuser62> From: "Cameron McMaster" Subject: germinating Crinum Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:47:35 +0200 Dave F. wrote: >Here in SW England it has been a generally good year for Crinum moorei seed >production and I've had some very large and good seed this year. However as >soon as it comes of the plant, the seed softens, shrivels and turns black, >and without being frosted. The cause for this is either 1/ fungal or 2/ or >the fact that the seed is infertile. I had the same experience earlier this year with C. moorei seed - a bumper season but many of them turned black and shrivelled. They seemed to be infertile - there was no sign of a radicle wanting to emerge anywhere around the seed. The seeds that did germinate had no black on them, and have grown very well with no sign of any kind of fungus infection. If it happens again I'm going to cut them open to see where the black starts and whether there is an embryo or not. Rhoda Napier, Western Cape Mediterranean climate with some summer rain From angelopalm69@inwind.it Tue Nov 18 05:14:14 2003 Message-Id: <000d01c3adbc$5f2ac040$42e8623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: germinating Crinum & more Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:11:10 +0100 While we are still on this topic, can anyone explain why some years I get lots of seeds on Crinum asiaticum (so many to bent the stalks to the ground) and moorei doing absolutely, while in the last two years I have got neither a single seeds, even if hand pollinated all the flowers several times? I suspect that it's a question of moisture, as I remember years ago I had seeds from each flower, because the summer was unusually rainy. Angelo Porcelli Italy zone 9b From dejager@bulbargence.com Tue Nov 18 06:51:38 2003 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Seeding (was Deeper planting bulbs) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:50:52 +0100 Dave, Thank you for this interesting information, which explained clearly why our early summer sowings of Galanthus and Cyclamen succeed so much better then when planted in the autumn. It may also explain why the "floating method" is in some cases so effecient. Regards Lauw de Jager http://www.bulbargence.com South of France (zone 8 Olivier) le 17/11/03 21:08, DaveKarn@aol.com à DaveKarn@aol.com a écrit : Although I've not always been able to follow the advice about planting the seed as soon as it is falls from the capsule, it is probably wise to do so. When fresh, the seed is plump and shiny black. As it dries in preparation for dormancy, it shrinks and becomes matte black. The dormancy inhibitors formed during this process have to be washed away by rainfall before the seed will sprout. In other words, planted fresh in June in this climate one will often see the little spears of growth in late Fall. Planted in Spring ( seed harvested the previous June ), the seed will not germinate until the following Spring. From dells@voicenet.com Tue Nov 18 06:58:55 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 50 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:57:42 -0500 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 50" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! SEED: (W = winter-growing; S = summer growing; WE = winter-growing, evergreen) From Alberto Castillo: 1. Eleutherine bulbosa var citriodora 2. Calydorea pallens 3. Cypella osteniana 4. Cypella armosa 5. Cypella laxa 6. Calydorea amabilis 7. Cypella herberti 8. Cypella laeta 9. Gelasine elongata 10. Sparaxis parviflora From Mark Wilcox: 11. Seeds of Belamcanda chinensis 'Hello Yellow,' selfed (S): seeds only sprout when soil maintains a temperature of around 67?F/19.4?C and suitable moisture is present. Fall-started seeds bloom the following summer. Spring-started seeds bloom in the second year. The visible part of the rhizome and foliage look almost exactly like a small iris. 12. Seeds of Delphinium exaltatum (bulb companion) (S): native to the east coast of the USA, and more adaptable to hot, wet summer conditions. Purple to violet flowers on a relatively small sized plant. From Hamish Sloan: 13. Habranthus magnoi - white flowered trumpet shape, not reflexed petals. this is my first flowering from these seedlings. 14. Zephyranthes "Libra" Pale yellow, upright flower, fairly free flowering. 15. Habranthus sp.? good yellow form 16. Habranthus tubispathus rosea 17. Habranthus gracilifolius Thank you, Alberto, Mark, and Hamish !! Best wishes, Dell From dirkwallace@bigpond.com Tue Nov 18 08:10:18 2003 Message-Id: <002b01c3add6$b842d4a0$12fa8690@bamburyc> From: "Dirk Wallace" Subject: BGB Bulb List Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 00:20:20 +1100 Hello to All, My current bulb list is now available. Please e-mail me privately to receive the list, or you can view it online at my web site http://www.users.bigpond.com/dirkwallace/products.htm Kind regards, Dirk Wallace Check out my web site: http://www.users.bigpond.com/dirkwallace Email the Australian Bulb Association at: support@ausbulbs.org ABA Web Site: http://www.ausbulbs.org Checkout images of bulbs: http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/ Join our free email forums, with Yahoo Groups. Messages - Australian_Bulbs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Images - AB_images-subscribe@yahoogroups.com From JFlintoff@aol.com Tue Nov 18 11:59:19 2003 Message-Id: From: JFlintoff@aol.com Subject: Oxalis hirta/crassipes/articulata{Oxalis-TOW} Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:58:44 EST Re the confusion of the names hirta,crassipes and articulata. Finally had time to look at Alicia Lourteig's paper in Phytologia v.50 (1982) on Oxalis Section Articulatae. The paper is written in Spanish which I do not really know, but I rely on my rather good background in Latin and French for the following. Lourteig recognizes the following plants for this section: articulata,articulata ssp. rubra, articulata ssp. hirta f. crassipes,floribunda, floribunda ssp. ostenii, lasiopetala and monticola. Key to articulata and its subspecies: C. Pubescence dense, more or less straight. Sepals linear, calluses linear or 2-forked. Petals with straight pubescence in the exposed areas at the tip O. articulata ssp. articulata. C. Pubescence short, scanty. Sepals elliptical with small oblong or punctiform calluses. Petals with little pubescence. d. Flowers rose-colored. Sepals with 2 small calluses. O.articulata ssp. rubra ( St. Hil.)Lourteig d. Flowers white. Sepals with 2-4-5 short calluses which are sometimes joined. O.articulata ssp. rubra f. crassipes (Urban) Lourteig. Oxalis articulata: described from a plant collected in 1767 in pastures in Montevideo, Uruguay. Abundant in Uruguay in the Province of Buenos Aires and much rarer in the Entre Rios and in Santa Fe (Argentina) as well in Rio Grane do Sul (Brazil). She studied specimens ( naturalized and cultivated ) in N and S Am.,Europe,S. Africa,Australia and NZ. Oxalis articulata ssp. rubra: described from a plant found by St.Hilaire on the banks of rivers near the village Freguesia Nova in the southern Province of St Paul. Grows in moist places in the Province of Buenos Aires, rare in the south of Uruguay and Brazil. Introduced in N. Am. and Europe and Egypt. Oxalis articulata ssp. rubra f. crassipes: described from a plant cultivated in Germany from " South America ". Lourteig considers this a white-flowered mutation that has been maintained in cultivation. It can be microstylous or mesostylous. Naturalized in Europe, Israel, US, Java and NZ O. hirta of course is from S Afr. Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washington,USA Zone 8 From JFlintoff@aol.com Tue Nov 18 12:25:52 2003 Message-Id: <4d.37aa6dba.2cebb012@aol.com> From: JFlintoff@aol.com Subject: Oxalis on the wiki Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:25:38 EST Mary Sue and Arnold Oxalis perdicaria in the earlier name for O. lobata. The former was first described in 1782 as Sassia perdicaria by Molina whereas the latter was described by Sims in 1823. Even though perdicaria was described in a different genus it still has priority over lobata. In the Encyclopedia of Alpines vol. 2 published by the Alpine Garden Society of GB under O. perdicaria there is a discussion of another paler yellow plant that grows with O.perdicaria that may be possibly an undescribed species. I'd love to get one! O.perdicaria is hardy most years in zone 8 but in a really cold winter it may be wiped out. I grow it in a pot in a frame. It is wonderful to bring indoors in November/December to enjoy its great fragrance. By the bye the rather unusual adjective perdicaria pertains to the Greek/Latin word perdix meaning partridge. I don't know if partridges are native to S Am or introduced but I would imagine that they would be easily scratched out of the ground for a snack. Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washington,USA Zone 8 From joakim.erson@bredband.net Tue Nov 18 12:42:00 2003 Message-Id: <000c01c3adfb$3efd9ab0$0400a8c0@justin> From: "Joakim Erson" Subject: Ledebouria Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:41:49 +0100 Hello:) My name is Joakim, I´m new to the pbs, and just wanted to introduce myself:) Im 24, and live and study economics in Uppsala,sweden. My favourite group of plants is Ledebouria, but I´m also weak for Smithiantha, hippeastrum, sinningia and haemanthus. I have way to many plants in my home, but still I would be interested in swapping, preferably in summer:) I saw an old message regarding photos of Ledebourias, I could sure use some:) Kind reagards/joakim From davidxvictor@mailblocks.com Tue Nov 18 13:29:15 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20031118180543.03276158@app4.mailblocks.com> From: David Victor Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 10, Issue 22 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:07:30 +0000 >Mary Sue wrote: >"Another supplier of Oxalis bulbs are Sheilam cactus nursery, at Robertson >(South Africa). > >No mention if they export, but perhaps someone could email them and let us >know. As it happened, I e-mailed them last night and, yes, they do export and can supply phyto-sanitary and CITES certificates. However, they do not accept personal cheques and the costs add up, particularly if you want things air freighted. If you would like a copy of their list and conditions I can let you have it. Paul wrote: >O. perdicaria is VERY closely related to O. lobata (can be difficult to >tell apart depending whether happy ot unhappy (i.e influences size of >leaves and flowers etc). According to Index Kewensis O. perdicaria Bert. is the same as O. lobata. This is also noted in the Alpine Garden Society's encyclopaedia, the entry for which was written by John Watson, probably the leading field botanist on South American Oxalis nowadays. >My memory of the discussion was that what so many of us have here in >Australia as O. namaquana is acutally O. fabaeifolia. I think it was >worked out in that discussion that O. namaquana actually has 3 leaflets >instead of the 2 the fabaeifolia has, plus the flowers on namaquana are a >much stronger gold than the paler yellow that we in here have as that >species (which the consensus was that it was actually fabaeifolia should >look like). That's my memory of it anyway, but that doesn't mean much >given how shot to pieces by CFS / ME my memory is . Paul, you are not quite right. According to Salter O. namaquana has 3 leaflets, with a corolla which can be yellow or (rarely) white, the yellow funnel shaped tube often purple streaked. O. fabaefolia has 2 - 5 leaflets, with a corolla which can be yellow, pale mauve or white, rarely with a purple eye at the throat. The leaflets of fabaefolia can be rather broad and have "wings", whereas namaquana's leaflets tend to be narrow and have two small brown apical calli. Best regards, David Victor From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Tue Nov 18 13:56:18 2003 Message-Id: <000a01c3ae05$a0cc5100$3ad2f7a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Oxalis on the wiki Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:56:07 -0800 Hi Jerry and All: Just my luck that the TOW on my favorite genus came while I was computerless for a week! I have the pale yellow form of O. lobata, and it came to me as O. perdicaria. The leaflets are the same as O. lobata - they are unusual in that one lobe of the leaflet stands up looking like Mickey Mouse ears. The flowers are pale yellow and have no scent at all, unlike the honey scent of O. lobata. They seem to have other anatomical differences, but since oxalis within the same species can have different configurations of style and filaments or anthers, I'm not sure what that means. This one seems a little less vigorous than O. lobata, but still grows under similar conditions and is not difficult. O. lobata and O. perdicaria are suitable for outdoor planting in the appropriate climates - they can both withstand several degrees of frost and are not invasive at all. Diana Telos ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 9:25 AM Subject: [pbs] Oxalis on the wiki > Mary Sue and Arnold > > Oxalis perdicaria in the earlier name for O. lobata. The former was > first described in 1782 as Sassia perdicaria by Molina whereas the latter was > described by Sims in 1823. Even though perdicaria was described in a different > genus it still has priority over lobata. > > In the Encyclopedia of Alpines vol. 2 published by the Alpine Garden > Society of GB under O. perdicaria there is a discussion of another paler yellow > plant that grows with O.perdicaria that may be possibly an undescribed species. > I'd love to get one! > > O.perdicaria is hardy most years in zone 8 but in a really cold winter it > may be wiped out. I grow it in a pot in a frame. It is wonderful to bring > indoors in November/December to enjoy its great fragrance. > > By the bye the rather unusual adjective perdicaria pertains to the > Greek/Latin word perdix meaning partridge. I don't know if partridges are native > to S Am or introduced but I would imagine that they would be easily scratched > out of the ground for a snack. > > Jerry John Flintoff > Vashon Island,Washington,USA > Zone 8 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From mark@marksgardenplants.com Tue Nov 18 14:28:47 2003 Message-Id: <004201c3ae0a$2b2fba40$f0d59851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Gladioli, oxalis & Moraea Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:28:38 -0000 hi all Some queries re bulbs I have recently bought. Have you had sucess with the following? What conditions do they like and hardy to what zone. Moraea atropunctata Gladiolus flanaganii Oxalis versicolor My Oxalis versicolor has a forest of 'stems' and one flowering stem full of flowers. Has the pot got too many tubers/bulbs in it? When do I divide it? I also bough a potful of Lachenalia versicolor but can find no reference to it. Have you heard of it? The leaves are red with dark blotches. thanks for your time Mark N Ireland zone 8 and too warm. Ranunculus ficaria cultivars are in leaf and have buds showing. From daffodil@wave.co.nz Tue Nov 18 16:04:47 2003 Message-Id: <006801c3ae17$8f962b10$19c760cb@Dads> From: "Bill Dijk" Subject: Oxalis species for PBS Wiki Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:03:10 +1300 Hi All, Although very busy in the nursery, with the winter-flowering Oxalis season long finished for us in the SH, I thought it appropriate with the Oxalis TOW to put a few more Oxalis species on the Wiki. Few of those species are already on the Wiki as single flowers, but will show some of these in larger quantities in our nursery. With the recent discussions on Oxalis species names and synonyms, and the genus being a bone of contention lately, I won't be 100% sure about the correct sp.names, but don't hesitate to let me know or correct me, always a point of interesting conversation. Mary Sue has already mentioned and referred to most of the Oxalis species pictures I put on the Wiki, but have added a few more (the last 6) to the long list down below. I had a few problems with downloading the pictures, but the ever present, always helpful, eagle eyed, day and night hard working, overworked and underpaid, Mary Sue came to my rescue as normal and fixed the problems. We are indeed very fortunenatly to have Mary Sue at the helm and in control of th ship, steering it in the right direction. We owe Mary Sue a great deal of gratitude and support as the PBS list administrator, Wiki worker, TOW coordinator, Trouble-shooter extraordinary (did I forget anything?) Go have a look and enjoy. Best wishes, Bill Dijk Tauranga, New Zealand :annual rainfall :1250 mm. Sunshine hours, mean annual : 2350 hours. Temp.mean max.Summer : 25°C. Winter:15°C. Temp.mean min. Summer :14.5°C. Winter: 5°C. Wet mild Winters with occasional light frost. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis.bowiei..jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis-cernua-double-yellow.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis.deppei_syn.Ox.tetraphylla.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis.fabaefolia.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis.glabra.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Ox.hirta.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Ox.lobata.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Ox.luteola_maculata.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Ox.massoniana.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis.meisneri.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis.obtusa.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Ox.palmifrons.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis.pardalis.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis.peridicaria.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis.purpurea.alba.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis.purpurea_nigrescens.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis.tomentosa.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis.triangularis.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Ox.tenuifolia_.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis.purpureo.yellow.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis.versicolor.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis-hirta_colourform.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Collection_of_Oxalis.jpg From robin@rpattrill.freeserve.co.uk Tue Nov 18 18:17:41 2003 Message-Id: <008801c3ae2a$289775a0$b22a893e@ibmcatwpkh6omz> From: "Robin Attrill" Subject: Jim and Jenny Archibald seedlist website Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:17:37 -0000 All, In case you are unaware....... http://www.jjaseeds.com/ regards Robin From robin@rpattrill.freeserve.co.uk Tue Nov 18 18:24:45 2003 Message-Id: <00a001c3ae2b$24db1470$b22a893e@ibmcatwpkh6omz> From: "Robin Attrill" Subject: Gladioli, oxalis & Moraea Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:24:40 -0000 Mark, > My Oxalis versicolor has a forest of 'stems' and one flowering stem full of > flowers. Has the pot got too many tubers/bulbs in it? When do I divide it? > Divide and repot when dormant in mid-late summer. This species increases well and pots can easily become crowded and shy flowering. Given how prolific the plant is in terms of bulb production it is difficult to rationalise the very high prices charged by some commercial suppliers for this plant........! regards Robin From shayne@essentialrhythms.com Tue Nov 18 18:43:22 2003 Message-Id: <019101c3ae2d$bf5b5120$b7fa8690@m5p0g6> From: "Shayne Willis" Subject: [AB_images] Late spring blooms. Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:29:54 +1100 Hi Rob, I have Calochortus albus "Sierra Nevada Form" just finishing up flowering now. Two out of the three bulbs that flowered had white petals and pink tepals. These two plants also had dark stems, similar to your, where as the all white flower one has green stems. I was thinking the pink ones, I have, might be albus var. rubellus but seeing yours makes me think it might just be variation in the species. There is some seed setting on all three plants so maybe would could do a seed swap at the end of the season. Regards, Shayne. Yackandandah......... From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Tue Nov 18 22:21:06 2003 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Oxalis species for PBS Wiki Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:20:28 -0800 Speaking of uncertainties and bones of contention with regard to species names and synonyms, I was scanning through Dirk's latest list of bulb offerings and happened upon this: "Ipheion pelegrinans (syn. Tristagma pelegrinans) Known as I. 'Rolf Fiedler' in the trade before it's true identity was established. Beautiful starry cobalt blue flowers in Winter to Spring. Increases by stolons." This is news to me. Since in my northern hemisphere garden, my pots of Ipheion 'Rolf Fiedler' are all coming out of dormancy now, this caught my attention. One pot has a new label where I left room after "Ipheion" for a species name in case that ever got settled. My question is: When did it get settled? And when and who established its true identity? Not having any Tristagma, nor ever having seen a live plant, I didn't realize that they were similar enough to Ipheions that there would be a synonymous name for it. Finally, does this mean that it is merely a true species and therefore we no longer need to nor should refer to it as 'Rolf Fiedler' as Dirk now does in his catalog? -- --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From ernestwells@mindspring.com Tue Nov 18 23:52:19 2003 Message-Id: From: Tom Wells Subject: Pacific BX 50 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:35:50 -0800 Hi Dell, Here is a list from BX 50 if they are still available. Tom 10. Sparaxis parviflora 11. Seeds of Belamcanda chinensis 'Hello Yellow 13. Habranthus magnoi 14. Zephyranthes "Libra" Pale yellow From JFlintoff@aol.com Tue Nov 18 23:50:02 2003 Message-Id: <183.2354069d.2cec5067@aol.com> From: JFlintoff@aol.com Subject: pbs Digest, vol.10,Issue 22 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:49:43 EST Paul, David et al . " O. fabaefolia has 2 - 5 leaflets, with a corolla which can be yellow, pale mauve or white, rarely with a purple eye at the throat. The leaflets of fabaefolia can be rather broad and have "wings", whereas namaquana's leaflets tend to be narrow and have two small brown apical calli." The spelling of O fabaefolia is no longer considered correct--it should be fabifolia. Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washington,USA Zone 9 From dells@voicenet.com Wed Nov 19 08:13:03 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Growth Cycles for BX 50 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:12:02 -0500 Alberto has once again supplied us with the cycle information: (W = winter-growing; S = summer growing; WE = winter-growing, evergreen) 1. Eleutherine bulbosa var citriodora (S) 2. Calydorea pallens (S) 3. Cypella osteniana (W) 4. Cypella armosa (W) 5. Cypella laxa (W) 6. Calydorea amabilis (W) 7. Cypella herberti (W) 8. Cypella laeta (W) 9. Gelasine elongata (W) 10. Sparaxis parviflora (W) 13. Habranthus magnoi (S)- white flowered trumpet shape, not reflexed petals. this is my first flowering from these seedlings. 14. Zephyranthes "Libra" (S) Pale yellow, upright flower, fairly free flowering. 15. Habranthus sp.? good yellow form 16. Habranthus tubispathus rosea (W) 17. Habranthus gracilifolius (W) Thank you, Alberto. From jshields104@insightbb.com Wed Nov 19 08:19:51 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031119081755.0282e0d0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Oxalis hardiness Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:19:49 -0500 I would like to echo Kenneth Hixson's request and extend it to USDA zone 5 -- what Oxalis species would be hardy outdoors in the ground where I live in central Indiana? Jim Shields At 11:55 AM 11/14/2003 -0800, Kenneth Hixson wrote: >Hi, all: > Would someone like to suggest an answer: >Which Oxalis are reasonably hardy? For me that means Zone 7. >......... > Other Oxalis would be trialed if they were likely to be hardy. > > Ken western Oregon ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From msittner@mcn.org Wed Nov 19 10:29:56 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031118234057.01c19820@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: References Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:26:47 -0800 Dear All, I'm finally having a moment to respond to Jane's post. I think if she is willing to do a Reference page for us it would be a good addition to the wiki. I'd link it to the home page. I think we could do it in stages. First would be to have a list of references. Later we could link them to the wiki pages. And I agree with Arnold that when we add the links that having volunteers to help would make the process go a lot faster. If no volunteers come forward, then I anticipate genus pages would get linked to references only if someone was especially interested in that genus. That is the nature of the wiki and why some pages have more information and pictures on them than others. For now please send the information about your best reference books to Jane: janemcgary at earthlink.net. I include below the information she has suggested. A lot of us have many bulb books. I certainly do. But I find that some I refer to often and others rarely. Let's start with those books we really use. For the most part I agree with her recommendations to stick to books, but it seems useful to include current revisions of a genus even if it is a journal article. I am thinking of the revision of Ferraria and Romulea for example that were done within the last few years. Could there be an exception for those? This is where you probably will find the latest information about names. >If we limit the references to books (no journal articles) the size should >remain manageable. The basic information needed is author(s) with FULL >NAMES, please (not just initials, you scientists), date of publication, >and full title (including subtitle). It also helps to have the publisher's >name, because some books are published by different presses in different >countries (known as copublication; typical example is Timber Press in the >USA and Batsford in the UK) and the ISBN number, which is a quick way to >order a book. All this information can normally be found on the reverse of >the title page. Once references start to come in I think Jane could start to add them to the wiki which would save a lot of us having to send information for the same book. If she already had it listed, then you wouldn't have to send it again. And although I really like the brief annotation idea, since this will be in the public domain should we be careful about what we write? For example might it be better just to say "Useful for color photos" instead of "Riddled with errors, but useful for color photos." I know we are eager to expose some of the books that drive us crazy, but would there be a liability issue? I see what Boyce means when he says we could use whatever words we wanted to in a link, but if our page of references got to be long, it would seem that the easiest way to find the reference on the page would be searching for whatever first word Jane uses. If she makes it alphabetical by author then you'd want to list the author in the link. If she arranges it by title, then a title. Otherwise you'd have to scan the whole page. But you could solve the dilemma of which reference of an author by referring to the book in the link as well. eg. (Manning, Goldlatt, and Snijman's Color Encyclopedia) Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From joakim.erson@bredband.net Wed Nov 19 10:45:04 2003 Message-Id: <000701c3aeb4$29db4c90$0400a8c0@justin> From: "Joakim Erson" Subject: Oxalis Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:45:31 +0100 Just a thought about oxalis: I have bought 3 species; massoniana, polyphylla and pes-caprae. The polyphylla has come up nicely ( although I think I planted it too shallow. The other two hasnt moved though. I planted them 2-3 weeks ago, but the polyphylla was already sprouting. Does massoniana or pas-caprae need any special temperature/ph? how long does it usually take for them to sprout? ever so thankful/ joakim joakmi.erson@bredband.net From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Wed Nov 19 11:12:24 2003 Message-Id: <001001c3aeb7$e6f749c0$bcd6f7a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Oxalis hardiness Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:12:15 -0800 Hi Jim: I think your problem would be your summers, not the winters. O. enneaphylla, O. loricata, O. adenophylla and O. laciniata would all be hardy for your winters, but they wouldn't survive the heat of the summer. Diana ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.E. Shields" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 5:19 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Oxalis hardiness > I would like to echo Kenneth Hixson's request and extend it to USDA zone 5 > -- what Oxalis species would be hardy outdoors in the ground where I live > in central Indiana? > > Jim Shields > > At 11:55 AM 11/14/2003 -0800, Kenneth Hixson wrote: > >Hi, all: > > Would someone like to suggest an answer: > >Which Oxalis are reasonably hardy? For me that means Zone 7. > >......... > > Other Oxalis would be trialed if they were likely to be hardy. > > > > Ken western Oregon > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jglatt@ptd.net Wed Nov 19 11:33:32 2003 Message-Id: <000301c3aebb$1ad6ada0$7621bacc@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: Oxalis adenophylla Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:35:08 -0500 This fall I purchased 5 Oxalis adenophylla. I potted the firm, dark brown string covered tubers in a pot which was placed on the floor of my cool greenhouse (heated to 50° F.) Curiosity is this cat's besetting sin (but remember that while curiosity killed the cat, satisfaction brought her back.) So I did some poking around on Monday. Four are rotted and one has two white roots. Gently repotted into a smaller pot. So it cannot be winter low temperature that is the problem. regards, Judy in New Jersey where it is currently mild, gray, and drizzling. From davidxvictor@mailblocks.com Wed Nov 19 12:35:28 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20031119173304.02d09b80@app4.mailblocks.com> From: David Victor Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 10, Issue 23 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:35:15 +0000 Mary Sue, You raised a question concerning the recording of cultivar names for Oxalis. Just for the record, the International Registrar for Oxalis is (like many other bulbous genera) the Royal General Bulbgrowers Association in Holland and their contacts e-mail address is vanscheepen@kavb.nl Best regards, David Victor From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Wed Nov 19 13:51:54 2003 Message-Id: <20031119185153.22247.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Sinningia photos uploaded Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:51:53 -0800 (PST) I have loaded a few images of some of my siningias to the wiki: Here is a relatively new comer to the collector world. It was discovered a few years ago. S. iarae has proven to be hardy in NC and has been used extensively in a lot of primary hybrids in hopes of increasing color range: www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/irarae.JPG This is a nice primary hybrid of leucotricha x iarae. It also is a stable F2, coming true from seed: www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/leucoXirarae.jpg And a close up of the flowers with back lighting: www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Lecuo_iaraeSM4.JPG Another hybrid with iarae. This one has glazioviana as a seed parent. Somewhere there is a recesive gene from bronze foliage as that is what the leaves are in full sun. It is quite striking when in bloom. I have had 2 flushes of flowers this year on small plants. My plants are in 1 gallon containers and stand about 10" tall: www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/glaz_iarae4.JPG This is a beautiful blooming specimen. I have tried crossing this with a few other species to see what I will get: www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/magnificaClose1.jpg This is one of the most common species grown, S. leucotricha (sometimes mistakingly sold as canescens). It is quite often sold by succulent growers because of the caudex which is usually exposed that can be quite attractive. The flowers are a beautiful salmon and open before the leaves are fully formed. These small leaves will expand over a month or so to reach 6-8" long: www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/canescens3.JPG Here is a rare red form of S. douglasii: www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/DouglasiiRed5.JPG And a photo of the growth: www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/DouglasiiRed1.JPG This is a large leaf plant with few flowers. I want to use this in some hybrids to increas plant size. The leaves can reach 10" across each and have the feel of sandpaper. It is quite interesting: www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/macrostachys3.JPG Lee P. has posted a picture of this before but here is another shot of 'Tante'. This is a great plant for the open garden: www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Tante4.JPG Sinningia tubiflora is an incredible plant. It has proven to be hardy to zone 6 in sheltered locations and I am trialling it in zone 5 (Canton, OH). The flowers are really sweet. It reminds me of Fruit Loops cereal. It can form nice colonies over time: www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/tubiflora3.jpg Here are several photos of my S. sellovii. One is the blooms and the other one is three full plants in 5 and 7 gallon containers: www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/sellovii3.jpg www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/sellovii6.jpg If any one has questions, let me know. Alberto can add some thoughts as well I'm sure. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. Soon to become www.floralarchitecture.com check it out soon 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From msittner@mcn.org Wed Nov 19 14:20:30 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031119105922.00b528d0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki File Names Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:17:33 -0800 Dear All, Please please name the picture files you load to the wiki with the Genus name first. Mark McDonough and I still look at all the files each day to remove the strange ones. We recently figured out a way to slow down on some of the ones that were going up that didn't belong there. It's usually a clue for us if it has a strange name. If I need to find a file later for any reason it makes my job so much easier if I know where to look for it. The logical way to find it is under the Genus name. We have so many files now that looking through them is a chore. Please please reference the wiki page instead of the file name when you announce you have added to the wiki. If you list the files by name, then if they are renamed later (which we no doubt will do eventually with John Ingram's recent images), the link will no correct in the archives and people won't find the picture. If you have referenced the page instead, even if the file name is changed, people will still be able to find the picture. So I suggest you write a note like this: I have recently added a number of pictures of Sinningia X to the wiki Sinningia page and then reference it not the file names. Thank you John for adding all these images for the topic of the week when I know you are busy also for keeping your file size down. I am sure that all the fans of Sinningia will be happy to look at them. Mary Sue Weary Wiki Worker From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Nov 19 22:38:11 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031119111417.00bcd508@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: References Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:25:22 -0800 Mary Sue wrote, >I'm finally having a moment to respond to Jane's post. I think if she is >willing to do a Reference page for us it would be a good addition to the >wiki. I'd link it to the home page. SOmebody else will have to set up the actual page, which I can't do, although I can edit it. I will also have to be told how to make the links, if that's something I'm supposed to do. And she asked: "And although I really like the brief annotation idea, since this will be in the public domain should we be careful about what we write? For example might it be better just to say "Useful for color photos" instead of "Riddled with errors, but useful for color photos." I know we are eager to expose some of the books that drive us crazy, but would there be a liability issue?" Answer: No, we would not be legally liable for expressing a negative opinion of a book. Thousands of people do it every day, in print and on the Internet. in formal book reviews and in the thumbnail reviews such as are found on Amazon. The worst thing that could happen would be incurring the animosity of the author. The References page should, however, contain some sort of statement to the effect that "Subjective evaluations are those of individual contributors to this web page and do not reflect the official policy of the Pacific Bulb Society, its officers and board of directors." I think it important to warn people away from spending money on bad books, and then using the information in them in further publication; I say this as a person who has had an editorial hand in a lot of books, both good and bad, and who recognizes the flaws of the latter sort. Regarding what the headword of the entry should be, it should be the author's name, not the title, because if you use the title you get into the problem of whether the alphabetization and link include initial articles (a, the, la, les, etc.). Better to use something less subject to interpretation (leaving aside the alphabetization of French and Dutch names, which has its peculiarities!). Let me know when the page is set up. Jane McGary From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Nov 19 22:38:13 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031119113123.00b8fe20@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Oxalis adenophylla Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:35:08 -0800 Judy wrote, >This fall I purchased 5 Oxalis adenophylla. I potted the firm, dark brown >string covered tubers in a pot which was placed on the floor of my cool >greenhouse (heated to 50° F.) Curiosity is this cat's besetting sin (but >remember that while curiosity killed the cat, satisfaction brought her >back.) So I did some poking around on Monday. Four are rotted and one has >two white roots. Gently repotted into a smaller pot. So it cannot be winter >low temperature that is the problem. They were probably in bad condition when you bought them, and you couldn't tell because of the fibrous coats. Oxalis adenophylla in nature grows in gently sloping screes, often in depressions where the snow lies late (the habitat favored by many Lewisia species too). I have had commercially purchased plants in the garden for many years, tucked into retaining walls where the drainage is very good, despite the extremely wet winters here with frequent frosts. The leaves emerge in spring. It is tolerant of summer water but does not require it. I wish we had access to the many color forms of this species that can be seen in a single population in nature. The common commercial form is pale pink, but you see everything from near-white to deep magenta in the Andes. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA (where it is snowing like crazy as I write) From dejager@bulbargence.com Wed Nov 19 15:37:00 2003 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Ledebouria Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:36:14 +0100 Dear Joakim. Welcome to the group, you will see that there is much to learn here. Your experience with Ledebouria will be of great interest to us, I find their identification still a problem. I got several species with no name to it. look forward to hearing from you Lauw de Jager http://www.bulbargence.com South of France (zone 8 Olivier) le 18/11/03 18:41, Joakim Erson à joakim.erson@bredband.net a écrit : > My favourite group of plants is Ledebouria, but I´m also weak for Smithiantha, > hippeastrum, sinningia and haemanthus. I have way too many plants in my home, > but still I would be interested in swapping, preferably in summer. I saw an old message regarding photos of Ledebourias, I could sure use some From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Wed Nov 19 17:07:28 2003 Message-Id: <000301c3aee8$8be39760$7e89eb50@davidfen> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Amaryllis - Help Wanted Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:00:29 -0000 Dear All, Can anyone please help me. I am looking for a copy of a distribution map, old or current, of Amaryllis belladonna in South Africa. This is for private reference only so please don't worry about copyright. A scan or digital photo would be fine. Many thanks for any help. Much appreciated. Best Wishes, Dave David Fenwick NCCPG National Plant Heritage Collections of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens Estover Plymouth Devon England PL6 8TW Websites www.theafricangarden.com www.crocosmiaheritage.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.541 / Virus Database: 335 - Release Date: 14/11/03 From mark@marksgardenplants.com Wed Nov 19 17:21:49 2003 Message-Id: <005c01c3aeeb$85e3c3f0$533c2bd9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: species Gladioli Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:21:47 -0000 hi all Does anyone have a contact for small species Gladioli? Do you grow any? I have a new 8x12 green house ordered and hope to have a frost free plunge bed for South Africa bulbs including Gladioli. Mark N Ireland From msittner@mcn.org Wed Nov 19 17:31:33 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031119142247.01aab660@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Ledebouria Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:29:26 -0800 Dear All, I made a Ledbouria page on the wiki by adding it to the end and will relocate it when there is time to its alphabetical order. Joakim wanted pictures so if anyone has any please upload them to the wiki. Rhoda McMaster has agreed to do an introduction for Ledbouria as the topic of the week some time in 2004. In the Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs there is an interesting write up about this genus with one picture and there are pictures in Elsa Pooley's books too (A Field Guide to Wild Flowers Kwazulu-Natal and the Eastern Region has nine pictures in it). Mary Sue From khixson@nu-world.com Thu Nov 20 03:28:47 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20031119182028.0094629c@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Oxalis adenophylla Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:20:28 -0800 Hi, Rodger, now you've added to the puzzle. >As far as I'm concerned, this species is as tough as old boots and >reports of difficulty with it puzzle me. I thought Diane's suggestion of keeping it dry in summer must be the answer, because I hadn't done that. Jane's growing it with extreme drainage doesn't appear to be what you do in your garden. I've tried it in various spots, all with good if not extreme drainage, for instance in a pot above of a lily, edging the sidewalk by/under rhododendrons, and so on, and they last for a while if not flower heavily, then no more. Your climate should be similiar to mine, and the oxalis here were never put in full sun. So, do yours get dry in summer? Ken, western Oregon From eagle85@flash.net Wed Nov 19 22:54:14 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: species Gladioli Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:42:03 -0800 Mark SmythDoug Westfall mark@marksgardenplants.com1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > hi all > > Does anyone have a contact for small species Gladioli? Do you grow any? > ^^^^^^^^^ Mark, Diana Chapman - Telos Rare Bulbs P.O. Box 4147 Arcata, CA 95518 rarebulbs@earthlink.net Is a member of PBS and usually has a good selection of species Gladioli. Doug Westfall From msittner@mcn.org Wed Nov 19 23:45:40 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031119203935.01aaceb0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: species Gladioli Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:44:02 -0800 Hi Mark, A lot of us love the South African Gladiolus species. If you'll look on the wiki, you will see quite a few pictures. Mark Mazer grows all kind of wonderful South African bulbs in his greenhouse in Conneticut. You can grow them from seed. Sources are Silverhill Seeds, PBS BX, IBSA seed exchanges. Gordon Summerfield also sells both seeds and bulbs, but the bulbs will be on the wrong hemisphere. Mary Sue From mikemace@worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 20 00:46:48 2003 Message-Id: <001001c3af2c$91db5c40$a6c8480c@d1fqn01> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Archibalds online Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:07:22 -0800 Robin A. wrote: >http://www.jjaseeds.com/ Ohhhh my goodness gracious. I have been waiting many years for this moment. Must go order something. Now all we have to do is get Flores & Watson online... Mike San Jose, CA (zone 9, min temp 20F) From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Thu Nov 20 02:53:35 2003 Message-Id: <1AMjcU-1PPcum0@fwd01.sul.t-online.com> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: Oxalis perdicaria Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:52:54 +0100 Dear Mary Sue, Glad to hear that Oxalis perdicaria is still around. I was given a plant in England many years ago, it flowered in autumn with delicate pale yellow scented flowers but I lost it. I was never that easy to grow and did multiply at a painfully slow rate and if I remember rightly I mangaged to share a few offfsets with the IBS Bulb exchange. This plant was from an Alberto Castillo collection from Argentina from the Entre Rios Area so is definetely South Americam. Is there anybody who could spare a small bulb? This is a very nice plant. greetings, Uli From mark@marksgardenplants.com Thu Nov 20 03:56:28 2003 Message-Id: <004a01c3af44$31795ce0$a1df2ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: species Gladioli Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:56:30 -0000 hi all thanks for the input Mark N Ireland From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Nov 20 09:45:33 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Ledebouria - David Fenwick Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:10:46 -0600 >I saw an old message regarding photos of Ledebourias, I could sure use some:) >Kind reagards/joakim Dear All; I have sort of wondered if David Fenwick would respond here. A couple of months ago I asked about this topic and he kindly sent me nearly 30 pics of nearly as many species. Without his permission, I really can't share these, but if David agrees I'd send them privately to Joakim and any others. I found them very useful in this confusing genus. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From onager@midtown.net Thu Nov 20 10:16:47 2003 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20031120070742.01c603c8@pop3.midtown.net> From: Joyce Miller Subject: Ledebouria - David Fenwick Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:10:47 -0800 Hi Jim, I hope David Fenwick would agree to your sending the photos more widely, i.e. I would like to be on the receiving list. Kind regards, Joyce Miller Joyce E. Miller mailto:onager@midtown.net Zone USDA 9A Summer highs 100+degrees F for several to many days. Winter lows 27 degrees F From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Thu Nov 20 10:26:37 2003 Message-Id: <000e01c3af79$b5d75e80$7e89eb50@davidfen> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Ledebouria - David Fenwick Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:19:37 -0000 Hi Jim, >>>>>I have sort of wondered if David Fenwick would respond here. A couple of months ago I asked about this topic and he kindly sent me nearly 30 pics of nearly as many species. Without his permission, I really can't share these, but if David agrees I'd send them privately to Joakim and any others. I found them very useful in this confusing genus. Jim, I'd completely forgot about that, however it's not up to me who you send them to, as the pics that I sent you were images I was storing for personal reference. Best Wishes, Dave David Fenwick NCCPG National Plant Heritage Collections of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens Estover Plymouth Devon England PL6 8TW Websites www.theafricangarden.com www.crocosmiaheritage.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Waddick" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 2:10 PM Subject: [pbs] Ledebouria - David Fenwick > >I saw an old message regarding photos of Ledebourias, I could sure use some:) > >Kind reagards/joakim > > Dear All; > I have sort of wondered if David Fenwick would respond here. > A couple of months ago I asked about this topic and he kindly sent me > nearly 30 pics of nearly as many species. Without his permission, I > really can't share these, but if David agrees I'd send them privately > to Joakim and any others. > I found them very useful in this confusing genus. > > Best Jim W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > E-fax 419-781-8594 > > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.541 / Virus Database: 335 - Release Date: 14/11/03 From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Thu Nov 20 10:55:05 2003 Message-Id: <003501c3af7d$b03a7620$7e89eb50@davidfen> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Ledebouria - David Fenwick Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:48:05 -0000 >>>>>Jim, I'd completely forgot about that, however it's not up to me who you send them to, as the pics that I sent you were images I was storing for personal reference. Sorry, I forgot to add, I don't actually own the copyright for the Ledebouria pics I originally sent to Jim to help solve his personal problem. However nearly all the images can be obtained quite quickly by doing an Image Search on google www.google.com Best Wishes, Dave David Fenwick NCCPG National Plant Heritage Collections of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens Estover Plymouth Devon England PL6 8TW Websites www.theafricangarden.com www.crocosmiaheritage.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.541 / Virus Database: 335 - Release Date: 14/11/03 From msittner@mcn.org Thu Nov 20 11:01:11 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031120075029.01b1c230@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Childanthus fragrans Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:58:02 -0800 Dear All, Julian Slade from Australia posted this on the AB Images list a few days ago and I thought everyone not on that list would be interested so with Julian's permission I am sharing it. In response to his question about whether anyone else was growing and flowering this there was another Australian with it in bloom and a couple who had not ever been able to get it to flower. The one whose was in bloom said she had hers in her shed until it started to leaf out and then she placed it in the garden where it had to count on what nature provided. They had a very dry period followed by rain so her experience is similar to Julian's described below. I threw mine out long ago since it never bloomed, but for those of you who are still trying perhaps this post will help. In giving me permission to share this, Julian also says, "I should also add the caveat that my results could also possibly be due to luck!" Mary Sue Dear all In the past week I managed to flower Chlidanthus fragrans, the so-called Sea Daffodil. It has a reputation of being difficult to flower; plants in cultivation appear to be always virus-infected. I have had this for many years, and the only thing I did differently this year was to NOT water the pot, despite the emerging leaves. When the leaf tips dried off, I then watered the pot to saturation point. Then, just over a week ago and to my great delight, 2 out of the dozen or so bulbs rapidly burst into bloom. Even though it is obvious that this species has perfumed flowers, I have never read exactly what it smells like: to me it has a delicate scent rather like lemon squash with added sugar. Does anyone else grow (and flower) this? Regards Julian Slade From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Thu Nov 20 11:22:30 2003 Message-Id: <003801c3af82$7a78c410$bea779a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Oxalis perdicaria Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:22:21 -0800 Dear Uli and All: I had thought that O. perdicaria was very slow to increase, but when I tipped out the pots this summer there were a LOT of bulbs. I repotted into several pots, but each pot only has a few flowers. It seems that many of the bulbs remain dormant, and one could assume that they weren't there unless you looked. I think a lot of Oxalis do this, but in most of the pots I have there are still so many bulbs that bloom and grow each year, it's easy to overlook the fact that a hefty percentage are sitting the year out. Diana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johannes-Ulrich Urban" <320083817243-0001@t-online.de> To: Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 11:52 PM Subject: [pbs] Oxalis perdicaria > Dear Mary Sue, > > > Glad to hear that Oxalis perdicaria is still around. I was given a plant in > England many years ago, it flowered in autumn with delicate pale yellow scented > flowers but I lost it. I was never that easy to grow and did multiply at a > painfully slow rate and if I remember rightly I mangaged to share a few > offfsets with the IBS Bulb exchange. This plant was from an Alberto Castillo > collection from Argentina from the Entre Rios Area so is definetely South > Americam. > Is there anybody who could spare a small bulb? This is a very nice plant. > > greetings, Uli > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From fbiasella@watertownsavings.com Thu Nov 20 12:39:13 2003 Message-Id: <001a01c3af8d$43f3b340$55a7f10a@www.watertownsavings.com> From: "fbiasella" Subject: Childanthus fragrans Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:39:35 -0500 Greetings All, I too share in the frustration of trying to grow this plant. It's usually readily available in the spring in the Boston area at the more complete nurseries although the majority of them are from Holland and may harbor the afore mentioned virus. I have for many years been "lured" by the alleged ease of growing and flowering this beautiful bulb and every time...the same thing...nothing (heavy sigh). Again in frustration it ended up in the compost heap. Maybe one day I'll be brave and try it again...we'll see. Warm Regards, Fred Biasella Cambridge (Boston) MA USDA Zone 6B -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Mary Sue Ittner Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 10:58 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Childanthus fragrans Dear All, Julian Slade from Australia posted this on the AB Images list a few days ago and I thought everyone not on that list would be interested so with Julian's permission I am sharing it. In response to his question about whether anyone else was growing and flowering this there was another Australian with it in bloom and a couple who had not ever been able to get it to flower. The one whose was in bloom said she had hers in her shed until it started to leaf out and then she placed it in the garden where it had to count on what nature provided. They had a very dry period followed by rain so her experience is similar to Julian's described below. I threw mine out long ago since it never bloomed, but for those of you who are still trying perhaps this post will help. In giving me permission to share this, Julian also says, "I should also add the caveat that my results could also possibly be due to luck!" Mary Sue Dear all In the past week I managed to flower Chlidanthus fragrans, the so-called Sea Daffodil. It has a reputation of being difficult to flower; plants in cultivation appear to be always virus-infected. I have had this for many years, and the only thing I did differently this year was to NOT water the pot, despite the emerging leaves. When the leaf tips dried off, I then watered the pot to saturation point. Then, just over a week ago and to my great delight, 2 out of the dozen or so bulbs rapidly burst into bloom. Even though it is obvious that this species has perfumed flowers, I have never read exactly what it smells like: to me it has a delicate scent rather like lemon squash with added sugar. Does anyone else grow (and flower) this? Regards Julian Slade _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From plants_man@bigpond.com Thu Nov 20 14:31:48 2003 Message-Id: <003301c3af9d$5b437660$24fa8690@userbwbb7lkmiq> From: "Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan" Subject: Paramongia bulbs Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 06:34:45 +1100 Greetings one and All, I wondered if anyone can help me. I am looking for a source of the above bulb. Best wishes, Dash. Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan, Mainly Amaryllids Garden, P O Box 173, Barnawartha,Victoria,3688, Australia. +61 02 60267377 Visit my web site @ www.users.bigpond.com/plants_man/Home.htm Now with Online Payment Method Email the Australian Bulb Association at: support@ausbulbs.org ABA Web Sites: http://www.ausbulbs.org Checkout http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/ From joakim.erson@bredband.net Thu Nov 20 16:20:47 2003 Message-Id: <005601c3afac$20a50ff0$0400a8c0@justin> From: "Joakim Erson" Subject: ledebouria:) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:20:31 +0100 Well, I have a digital camera, so this spring I´ll try to remember to take pics of my ledebourias when in flower ( I´m just counting on that they will:)) I´ll arrange a website or something, so everyone can get to the pics, it´ll be fun:) From glcomp@connexus.net.au Thu Nov 20 18:00:35 2003 Message-Id: <000701c3afb9$edc30f20$0100a8c0@gary> From: "Gary Dunn" Subject: Ledebouria - David Fenwick Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:59:11 +1100 Subject: Re: [pbs] Ledebouria - David Fenwick To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031120070742.01c603c8@pop3.midtown.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi Jim, I also hope David Fenwick would agree to your sending the photos more widely, i.e. I would like to be on the receiving list. Kind regards, Gary Dunn mailto:glcomp@connexus.net.au Gary Dunn PO Box 9012 Scoresby, Victoria 3179 Australia From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Thu Nov 20 18:06:51 2003 Message-Id: <1AMxpZ-1nyCiP0@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: TOW Sinningia Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:03:21 +0100 Dear All, Another favourite genus! Being a member of both the American Gloxinia and Gesneriad Society (AGGS) http://www.aggs.org/ and the Swedish Gesneriad Society (contact Mrs Lindskog: sv.lindskog@telia.com), I would like to spread the information about these societies. Both are relatively small specialist societies and they are VERY friendly. Both run a magificent seed fund, the AGGS seed fund lists so many entries I absolutely never heard of, including both Sinningia species and hybrid seed. Both societies also have regular publications, the swedish one contains an addition with an english translation of the most important articles and all the photographs are commented in English, too. There is also another very good adress for Sinningias in Brazil: Mauro Peixoto. http://mpeixoto.sites.uol.com.br/index.html He has a well done home page with good photographs of many Sinningia species and other plants together with short cultural and habitat information. He also offers seed, I ordered this spring and got good quality, most plants bloomed the first year from seed. He also guides botanical tours in Brazil. Personally I think that Sinningias and other Gesneriads are plants with a lot of future. The great advantage is that they have a very long flowering season compared to Amaryllids or Irids. Some Kohleria Hybrids do in fact flower year round given the right condition. Most Sinningias are also perfect house plants, the very large and thin leaved ones may suffer from dry air, though, but there are so many that come from hot and exposed rock habitats that makes them cope with ease with indoor condition. Many Sinningias go dormant in winter and can be tucked away, but, having learnt through losses most do not want to be bone dry for months on end. They are also underrated foliage plants. For example Sinningea speciosa 'Reginae' has dark green velvety leaves with white veins, together with its dark purple flowers a stunning plant and NOT difficult to grow. It was used in hybridisation to produce white veined giant florists 'Gloxinias' but these seem to have disappeared. Many other Sinningias and Gesneriads have velvety hairy leaves that look very attractive even without flowers, often contrasted with brightly coloured bristly hairs. My Sinningia collection is too young to really jugde but the impression I have is that they are long lived and can form an impressive caudex that makes them look very exotic, some look like a little shrub sitting on a bottle. This summer was excellent hot and dry for Germany and many Gesneriads were in the open garden for the first time. It produced excellent results and most can take far more direct sun than expected, this produces plants of compact habit with well coloured flowers. I can't say I really like the look of the plants grown under artificial lights. But of course I understand if there is no choice it is better than not growing them at all but I can only encourage anybody interested in these groups of plants to try some outside in his or her climate to see how it works. I have not bothered testing for hardiness as our winters are too unstable: the constant change of frost and rain and mild weather and frost again will kill them, I am sure. Have fun with Sinningias! Uli From lizwat@earthlink.net Thu Nov 20 21:47:11 2003 Message-Id: <3FBD7CB1.9010302@earthlink.net> From: Liz Waterman Subject: Ledebourias Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:47:13 -0800 This site was given by Dave Fenwick in an earlier posting. http://www003.upp.so-net.ne.jp/Lachenalia/lili6.html Oodles of pics, Japanese site may not be easy with some browsers. Liz From msittner@mcn.org Fri Nov 21 01:38:53 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031120214941.00d3bac0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Growth cycles for BX 50 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:36:11 -0800 Dear All, It is a treat to have access to these plants from South America and to have Alberto tell us about their growth cycle. Two of them I grow and I am puzzled by the key as mine seem to be summer growers and I am wondering if for some strange reason I have managed to produce a summer grower by starting seed at the wrong time. This was a topic of the week this fall and maybe I have a few plants to add to the list. Calydorea amabilis is a plant I am really fond of. If you deadhead it, it is like the energizer bunny. It just keeps on blooming. In 2002 it bloomed July-Oct and then didn't seem to grow very much and some of the plants died back. This year it started blooming in June and there were even some blooms this month, but it definitely is starting to look a bit scruffy. Some days there were only a couple of flowers open and other days there would be five or six flowers open at the same time. Perhaps what Alberto is telling us is to start the seed in the fall? The first time I tried to grow this seed which Bill Dijk had donated I started it in the spring and thought I had no luck at all. Then one fall a plant bloomed that puzzled me since I had no idea what it was or where it came from and Will Ashburner helped me identify it as Calydorea. Whether the seed had migrated to another pot or I just reused the soil I don't know. I saved seed of that plant and just stuck it in the pot and it came up in December. The second plant is Gelasine elongata. Twice I tried starting seed in winter and had no germination and then started some in spring which germinated the following fall, but I was unable to keep it going. My friend Jana had better luck and gave me some of hers which never bloomed until I put it in the ground. I was advised it wouldn't like my wet winters, but it survived and bloomed a very long time this past summer. I think it would have kept on blooming if I hadn't gone to South Africa and stopped deadheading it. In my climate it seems to be evergreen but it is in active growth in the summer. Should those people getting Alberto's seed in the Northern Hemisphere be starting all the ones with a W as soon as we get it? Mary Sue From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Fri Nov 21 03:57:23 2003 Message-Id: <000901c3b00c$79b66ac0$7e89eb50@davidfen> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Ledebourias Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:50:12 -0000 >>>>>This site was given by Dave Fenwick in an earlier posting. Hi Liz, Liz, many thanks for sending the link, I went looking for it yesterday and couldn't find it. Much appreciated. Best Wishes, Dave David Fenwick NCCPG National Plant Heritage Collections of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens Estover Plymouth Devon England PL6 8TW Websites www.theafricangarden.com www.crocosmiaheritage.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.541 / Virus Database: 335 - Release Date: 14/11/03 From annejim@acay.com.au Fri Nov 21 06:45:16 2003 Message-Id: <3FBDFC16.80401@acay.com.au> From: Jim Lykos Subject: germinating Crinum & more Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 22:50:46 +1100 Hi Angelo, Yes I think you have hit on the right explanation. I've also had exactly the same results last summer- very little seed set on C. pedunculatum, C. flaccidum, and none on C. luteolum or C. moorei. Almost all the Crinum seed that was set late in the flowering season also failed to germinate during Autumn, winter and Spring. We have experienced the worst drought for 150 years on the east coast of Australia, and while no species Crinums were very troubled by the dry conditions they were certainly reluctant to set seed and where seed that was obtained it proved reluctant to germinate - despite irrigating the Crinum garden weekly. However, the good news that I can now report is that most of the recalictrant Crinum seeds survived are now germinating, 7 or 8 months after seed set. Last January I crossed a couple of C. abyssinicum and later in April harvested 4 seeds which was quite a lengthy seed development period. Within a month of harvest three of the smaller seeds changed colour and rotted away. The largest of these seeds did nothing for 7 months sitting on the surface of the moist sandy potting mix. However, it too has developed a 3 cm radicle in the past week - perhaps its no coincidence that finally substantial rain is falling in the Sydney region and the atmosphere has been humid for the past two weeks! Cheers Jim Lykos Blue Mountains Australia Zone 9b/10 Angelo Porcelli wrote: >While we are still on this topic, can anyone explain why some years I get lots of seeds on Crinum asiaticum (so many to bent the stalks to the ground) and moorei doing absolutely, while in the last two years I have got neither a single seeds, even if hand pollinated all the flowers several times? I suspect that it's a question of moisture, as I remember years ago I had seeds from each flower, because the summer was unusually rainy. > >Angelo Porcelli >Italy zone 9b >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > From inalp2000@yahoo.co.uk Fri Nov 21 07:56:26 2003 Message-Id: <20031121125625.42480.qmail@web25201.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?q?ee=20w?= Subject: Jurasek seedlist Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:56:25 +0000 (GMT) I saw he started a website at www.jurasekalpines.com. Anyone tried to order through this ? --------------------------------- Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo!Messenger From inalp2000@yahoo.co.uk Fri Nov 21 09:20:15 2003 Message-Id: <20031121142012.58479.qmail@web25208.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?q?ee=20w?= Subject: Jurasek website Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:20:12 +0000 (GMT) Have you seen www.jurasekalpines.com ? Did anyone already order through this ? Thanks I. --------------------------------- Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo!Messenger From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Nov 21 09:59:42 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Ledebouria pics - NOT Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:29:42 -0600 First; Thanks Liz for the link to the gorgeous picture site in Japan. I NEED the two Ledbourai socialis on the left side of the page. White edged and brightly patterned. Wow. Anyone grow these? Dear all; After corresponding with David and Mary Sue, I cannot offer David's pics to PBS. First these are not all David's pics and they do not have full permission, second they could NEVER go on a web site without permission. David sent these to me from his personal file to look at only. I found them very interesting and second David's suggestion of a Google image search as a good substitute. Sorry and hope I didn't put David on the spot then or now. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From msittner@mcn.org Fri Nov 21 11:38:42 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031121082126.01ab06a0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Growth cycles for BX 50 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:36:57 -0800 Dear All, Alberto has responded to me privately about my questions and I think this information is so valuable for anyone thinking of growing this BX seed so I am sending on his responses. Having information about seed or corms offered in the BX helps people decide whether or not they can be successful growing it. "First of all and before I forget, the Zephyranthes hybrid offered as 'Libra' could not be it. 'Libra' is deep pink, open flat and the segments are broadly rounded at the tips. I am very much with other friends into the preservation of those early T. Howard's hybrids and they may disappear any time now." About the South American plants he is offering seed of: "I would certainly encourage anybody capable of providing near frost free conditions to grow these plants. In a note to Dell I advised people against wasting these seeds in experiments to see if they were hardy to zones 5 or 6. It is a wrong approach to force the plants to accept whatever conditions we can provide and then complain that they are failures. This I mention because it can be heard everywhere! The simple reason why some winter cycle plants grow as summer growers is because the rest of the year temperatures are not adequate. This is also why certain plants do not resprout again and sulk: they have not been "baked" enough. In other words, winter temperatures in your part of the world would not let these plant survive, hence they change to the period they regard as a "warm winter"." And his remarks about the Calydorea that I like so much. "Yes, it is one of the best "Tigridias" You could never imagine how it grows in the wild: in deep shade and in a foul smelling muck with the bulbs deeply embedded in it. But, the area is warm and it grows right in the river banks with their feet in water. In the wild it flowers in spring and ALSO in autumn. These same plants moved to a site in full sun will decline with time although the first couple of years the performance is fabulous. So, their seed must be started in autumn and the plants will go dormant in summer. Hibiscus and Neriums are common garden plants where they grow wild, say a zone 10. If the temperature range is lower than it the plants will try to survive moving to other cycle until they finally die." I wonder how long my Calydorea will live. Perhaps I'll try starting some more of it. Obviously if mine is still blooming in November it did not go dormant in summer, but is doing that now. And about Gelasine elongata: "I would compare this to Cypella (Phallocallis) coelestis. Both are summer dormant plants yet people grow them winter dormant as they respond readily to warmer temperatures. These G. elongata populations I sent seed of grow in a warm region, hilly and gravelly with a thin layer of top soil that you can easily imagine endures furnace like summers. Winters are mostly frost free in the sense that although many slight frosts do take place their effect vanishes by mid morning, not really burning the plants. Plants grown in the same region includes palms and orange groves. Imagine this is a Cape species and you can not err with it. Not all G. elongata seed is good. Some may be hollow and look perfectly healthy and plump. This form I have sent has white flowers with a broad violet edge, very beautiful and different than the usual all-violet form all know. Let me tell you that it does not like MY winters (say zone 9b) if I leave them in an exposed position then. I have resorted to using black containers and they really like them. And for my question "Should those people getting Alberto's seed in the Northern Hemisphere be starting all the ones with a W as soon as we get it? " he answers, "Of course!!! This is the sense behind all this fuss of adding cycles to anything in the BX. Sowing at the wrong time will mean that the dormancy temperatures will catch the plants when they are still too tiny to survive it. And those with a "S" retained until spring and then sow. All seed is very fresh and germination should be 100%" Thanks Alberto. This is really helpful information for all of us. Now I just hope no one has claimed all the Gelasine elongata seed. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Fri Nov 21 12:58:18 2003 Message-Id: <6a.3867cb97.2cefac2e@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Ledebouria pics -use goo for sites in Japan Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:58:06 EST In a message dated 11/21/2003 9:59:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, jwaddick@kc.rr.com writes: Thanks Liz for the link to the gorgeous picture site in Japan Dear Jim et al: Searching for sites in Japan is best accomplished using the goo search engine at: http://www.goo.ne.jp/ rather than Google. A brief visit led to quite a few spectacular photos. Best, Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Fri Nov 21 13:04:08 2003 Message-Id: <20031121180407.73714.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Growth cycles for BX 50 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:04:07 -0800 (PST) Gelasine elongata that I got as seed pots this spring went briefly dormant this summer temps were at the highest and I was not able to water them enough. They sprouted for me about 2 months ago and are doing well. I wanted to seperate them out a little but so I unpotted them and teased them apart. I will try to get a picture of the unusual root/caudex/lump/thing that has formed on the largest ones. I'm sure it is a tractile root or somehting similar. It is just so wierd. I am assuming that mine are the straight blue form. And I skipped the BX offer since I did not know that it was another color form. If someone gets a lot of seeds and has good germination, keep me in mind, I'd like to trade some in the future. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. Soon to become www.floralarchitecture.com check it out soon 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Nov 21 20:20:33 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Japanese Goo Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:54:20 -0600 >Dear Mark; > Thanks for this lead: http://www.goo.ne.jp/ I found some choice items. Incidentally does anyone grow any Ledebouria socialis even close to the sort shown on the site suggested- White edged or very contrasting silver/green. I need those. Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Nov 21 19:10:19 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031121105915.00b8fe60@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Growth cycles for BX 50 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:00:29 -0800 MAry Sue wrote, >Should those people getting Alberto's seed in the Northern Hemisphere be >starting all the ones with a W as soon as we get it? I would. My best results with seed from South America (both winter and summer growers) have been obtained by storing the seeds dry at room temperature over one summer and planting them in the fall. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From lizwat@earthlink.net Fri Nov 21 15:25:00 2003 Message-Id: <3FBE749F.2020703@earthlink.net> From: Liz Waterman Subject: Ledebouria pics Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:25:03 -0800 James Waddick wrote: > First; > Thanks Liz for the link to the gorgeous picture site in Japan. I > NEED the two Ledbourai socialis on the left side of the page. White > edged and brightly patterned. Wow. Anyone grow these? > > > Best Jim W. Jim, You did see that there were about 6 pages of Ledebouria; you might "need" even more. Liz From onager@midtown.net Fri Nov 21 15:48:21 2003 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20031121124621.01caae40@pop3.midtown.net> From: Joyce Miller Subject: Ledebouria pics -use goo for sites in Japan Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:48:12 -0800 Hi Mark, >http://www.goo.ne.jp/ rather than Google. A brief visit led to quite a few >spectacular photos. Home page was in Japanese and further search not intuitive. What is next step. Best, Joyce Miller, Sacramento, CA From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Fri Nov 21 16:15:53 2003 Message-Id: <191.2246015e.2cefda80@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Ledebouria pics -use goo for sites in Japan Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 16:15:44 EST In a message dated 11/21/2003 3:48:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, onager@midtown.net writes: Home page was in Japanese and further search not intuitive. What is next step Hi Joyce: The first text box, upper left- enter the search term Next box, the one with the hand lens icon-click to search For more, towards the bottom of the page, click on the number or the right arrow. Hope this helps, if not let me know. Best, Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From msittner@mcn.org Fri Nov 21 19:22:31 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031121161743.01aab5b0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Reference Page on the Wiki Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 16:20:48 -0800 Dear All, Jane has been working on the reference page for the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/References I've added a few of the books I find very helpful too. I hope many of the rest of you will help out with this by either adding sources directly to the page or by sending your suggestions to Jane so she can add them. Thanks to Jane for taking such quick action on this. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From msittner@mcn.org Fri Nov 21 20:43:39 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031121172857.01aa5260@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Ledebourias Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:32:54 -0800 Dear All, I too enjoyed looking again at those Ledebouria pictures that Liz sent us the link for, but was confused by seeing Lachenalia in the title. David Fenwick has sent me some pictures of Ledebouria which he has taken so they could be added to the wiki. I also added one my husband took of the one I gave to the BX earlier in the year. To see them: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Ledebouria Any body else in the group who has Ledebouria pictures of plants they grow is invited to add them to the wiki to keep these three company. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Fri Nov 21 20:43:40 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031121173446.01aa72a0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Sinningia--TOW Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:41:13 -0800 Dear All, Does anyone else in our group grow Sinningia? Joakim, will you tell us which ones you grow? Do you grow them all inside? Paul Tyerman and Lee Poulsen both have pictures on the wiki so perhaps they too can tell use which ones are favorites for them. I am curious to know who can grow these outside and how many become house plants. John has spent some time working on the Sinningia wiki page which I invite you all to visit: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Sinningia Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From dells@voicenet.com Sat Nov 22 10:06:37 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 50 CLOSED Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 10:05:25 -0500 Packages should go out by midweek. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Sat Nov 22 13:18:00 2003 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: bulb auction ON Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 10:06:04 -0800 Hi all, Yes, bulb auction and dinner is on for later today: 4pm-9pm. Couple people are bringing things to eat/drink, the rest of you - don't bother, I am furnishing all the rest of the food and beverages. BUT DO BRING: flats and boxes for your bulbs and for bulbs you buy in pots. Don't forget your allowance. KEEP: address 307 Calle Sonora, San Clemente, CA. Call us at home on the cell phones: Cathy 949-939-7801, John 714-904-8531, if you need directions, info, etc. Cathy Craig EA your Essential Advisor From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Sat Nov 22 13:20:50 2003 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: Fw: bulb auction ON Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 10:08:57 -0800 Hi all, Yes, bulb auction and dinner is on for later today: 4pm-9pm. Couple people are bringing things to eat/drink, the rest of you - don't bother, I am furnishing all the rest of the food and beverages. BUT DO BRING: flats and boxes for your bulbs and for bulbs you buy in pots. Don't forget your allowance. KEEP: address 307 Calle Sonora, San Clemente, CA. Call us at home on the cell phones: Cathy 949-939-7801, John 714-904-8531, if you need directions, info, etc. Cathy Craig EA your Essential Advisor From joakim.erson@bredband.net Sat Nov 22 13:48:50 2003 Message-Id: <000901c3b129$3d28ded0$555471d5@justin> From: "Joakim Erson" Subject: sinningia TOW Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:48:33 +0100 Hello Mary sue and all:) I grow two (three) sinningias: Sinningia "tinker bells", a cross between two species I ve forgotten, and two crosses between S. pusilla and S. concinna, one looks more like pusilla, the other like concinna. These crosses are gigantic, the leaves are3-4 cm across... well well:) None of these produces overground tubers however ( not yet that is). I grow them indoors. Tinkerbells must be the easiestplant I ve ever grown. cheers/j there are lots of info on the GRW http://www.gesneriads.ca/ Message: 10 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:41:13 -0800 From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Re: [pbs] Sinningia--TOW To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <4.2.2.20031121173446.01aa72a0@mail.mcn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dear All, Does anyone else in our group grow Sinningia? Joakim, will you tell us which ones you grow? Do you grow them all inside? Paul Tyerman and Lee Poulsen both have pictures on the wiki so perhaps they too can tell use which ones are favorites for them. I am curious to know who can grow these outside and how many become house plants. John has spent some time working on the Sinningia wiki page which I invite you all to visit: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Sinningia Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From daffodil@wave.co.nz Sat Nov 22 20:10:00 2003 Message-Id: <000901c3b15e$80fb2250$29c760cb@Dads> From: "Bill Dijk" Subject: Sinningia leucotricha [pbs] Sinningia--TOW Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 14:09:45 +1300 Dear All, This genus of about 40 species of tuberous perennials from central and South America includes the flower-shop Gloxinias, the more popular of the species. The Gloxinia flowers can be as much as 10 cm (4 in.) across and come in the richest shades of blue, violet, pink or red, usually with their throats mottled in white or paler shades of the main colours. All species including the Sinningia leucotricha shown, make spectacular pot plants, each carrying as many as 20 flowers or more, at the centre of a rosette of coarsely velvety leaves. Unfortunately they don't make very good garden plants, easily spoiled by the rain or adverse weather conditions. The whole trend in indoor gardening is towards hybridizing plants which have some sort of display all year long or, if it is of short duration, at least can be replaced rapidly from cuttings or seed. This would be particular welcome in Sinningia leucotricha because it is a very beautiful and aristocratic plant, different in appearance in some vital aspects from any other gesneriads. There will undoubtedly be research into ways of restimulating a dormant tuber, and this may eventually be accomplished by short periods of temperature change or by chemical treatment. The extraordinary appearance of S.leucotricha ( sometimes called the Brazilian edelweiss) is due not only to the form of the stem and leaves but even more so by the texture and colour. All parts are evenly coated with silvery white hairs which have a brushed appearance like a long-fibered fine felt, a soft glow of green penetrates the coating of pure silvery white and will add to the overall effect. The flowers are of a soft pink or red covered with brushed white hairs in a solid cluster and against the silver of the rabbit fur ears makes for a artistic colourful combination. Species of Sinningia prefer a humid atmosphere with bright light but not direct sun, and moist, peaty soil. The top surface of the tuber is planted even with the surface of the soil, as shown in the picture. In spring growth appear in the centre and from a large bulb several stems may be allowed to develop but, for best results, all but one or two should be nipped off at the base, those cuttings could be used for further increase as required. The leaves die down after flowering, after which the tubers can be dried out and stored in a frost-free area. Propagate from seed or from stem cuttings in late spring or summer. I have added these pictures of this Sinningia species to the wiki Sinningia page as suggested by Mary Sue for easier reference. If the page has been referenced instead, even if the file name is changed, people will still be able to find the picture. Go and visit, look and enjoy the pictures: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Sinningia Best wishes, Bill D. Tauranga, New Zealand :annual rainfall :1250 mm. Sunshine hours, mean annual : 2350 hours. Temp.mean max.Summer : 25°C. Winter:15°C. Temp.mean min. Summer :14.5°C. Winter: 5°C. Wet mild Winters with occasional light frost. Subject: Re: [pbs] Sinningia--TOW From totototo@mail.pacificcoast.net Wed Nov 19 23:29:44 2003 Message-Id: <200311200429.hAK4Tbe6018514@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Oxalis adenophylla Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:32:46 -800 On 19 Nov 03 at 11:35, Judy Glattstein wrote: > This fall I purchased 5 Oxalis adenophylla. I potted the firm, dark > brown string covered tubers in a pot which was placed on the floor > of my cool greenhouse (heated to 50° F.) Curiosity is this cat's > besetting sin (but remember that while curiosity killed the cat, > satisfaction brought her back.) So I did some poking around on > Monday. Four are rotted and one has two white roots. Gently repotted > into a smaller pot. So it cannot be winter low temperature that is > the problem. I've had Oxalis adenophylla -- the ordinary form you buy dried in the fall, just like yours -- in my garden for about 15 years and it just keeps on trucking along. I planted some more new ones last fall (2002), bought cheap at an end-of-season markdown, and all (most?) of them leafed out and grew just fine this last spring. As far as I'm concerned, this species is as tough as old boots and reports of difficulty with it puzzle me. The older planting is in rather heavyish soil, the newer in quite sandy soil, but neither spot ever gets standing water in the winter. Not in full unabashed sun; shady in winter, noon sun in summer. Let me hazard a guess: you kept the bulbs too warm, and fungal growth outstripped plant growth. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From jamievande@freenet.de Sun Nov 23 05:48:27 2003 Message-Id: <008201c3b1af$4a99ea60$6402a8c0@celeron> From: "Jamie" Subject: Sinningias Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 11:48:05 +0100 Jamie Vande Cologne Germany Zone 8 Although I do not presently grow any Sinningias, I am fascinated by the current TOW and simply want to encourage more! This group has always been fascinating and underrated in my eyes, with most associations being made with the florist Gloxinia and African Violet! I suppose their fame has led to a degree of neglect for many Gesneriads! (OK, there definitely are a few rabid fans out there! Yes, Yes, YES!) I remember planting (mounting) a Streptocarpus hybrid to a piece of black pumice, as a tennager, and being wonderfully surprised at how wonderfully it grew! Moisture and good air circulation are paramount for many members of this group, which have apparently found their niche and exploited it to the best of possibilities! A group to be admired! With or without tubers. Can anyone discuss raising from seed in more detail? I've never tried it, but now my appetite is well whetted! Would they respond similarly to tuberous begonia methods? I suspect damping-off may be a big problem in closed quarters. Ciao and a special thanks to Bill and John for pushing the envelope! From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun Nov 23 11:20:48 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Ledebouria pics Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 10:12:33 -0600 >Jim, > You did see that there were about 6 pages of Ledebouria; you might "need" even more. Dear Liz; yes there were some wonderful pics there and promoted extreme plant-lust symptoms. Thanks again for the links to this wonderful site. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Sun Nov 23 12:36:15 2003 Message-Id: <20031123173614.79969.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Sinningia leucotrica vs canescens Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:36:14 -0800 (PST) Bill, Great descriptions. I just have a few comments. There are 2 species, leucotricha and canescens. There is great confusion between the 2 species. I even posted the photo to the wiki incorrectly. What I have is leucotricha. The true S. canescens can be viewed here: http://mpeixoto.sites.uol.com.br/gesneriads/sinningia/canescens.jpg S. canescens has less hairs on the stem, leaves are not as hirsute and the flowers are spotted. The leucotricha plants that were oringinally brought into cultivation were incorrectly labeled as canescens and thus have remained as such. The one I bought at the Huntington was incorrectly labeled as canescens. I do have to disagree with you about them not being good for the open garden. Leucotricha is a great plant for that. I have mine out in pots but I have seen it several times in gardens where it was just beautiful. Yes, the plant would get dirty/soiled if steps are not taken but, a little mulch or planting it next to a patio or walkway where there is some hardscape is perfect. I have attempted to cross this species with 2 other plants, S. sellovi and magnifica. No rhyme or reason, just they were in bloom at the same time. It looks like the pollen has taken. We will see what I get. The real nice thing about Sinningias is the short time between seed and bloom. I have never been able to get this one to root from cuttings. I have tried before bloom, when just forming, after bloom, etc. No luck. I also have a ton of stems that form on the bulb but never more than 3 ever grow. The rest remain as a fuzz over the bulb. I have seen photos of specimens with 17 stems on them. Now that would be just gorgeous. I am not aware of any chemical or temp control to force bloom. I think it is more of a timed production from bulbs that are formed from leaf cuttings. This is the most common form of production for the "Florist Gloxinia" (S. speciosa hybrids). If I remember right it takes 6-8 months from leaf cutting to 6" pot in bloom for retail sales. Not a bad production time. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. Soon to become www.floralarchitecture.com check it out soon 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Sun Nov 23 12:46:55 2003 Message-Id: <20031123174654.70895.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Sinningia - TOW Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:46:54 -0800 (PST) Jamie, Here is a link back to a previous posting to Mark about how to start them from seeds. As I get more seeds available, I will be sending more to Dell for the BX. If anyone is interested in a few of the primary hybrids that I have tried, email me privately. I have a few to sell but not many. And I am not sure if the cross actually took or not. Sinningias are rather promiscuous and open pollination is rather hard to control. My grouping of S. sellovii is a major fight zone for all the hummingbirds in the neighborhood. I've been caught in more attacks than I prefer. They go to other plants in the garden as well such as the leucotricha right next to it but it is a lot lower and I don't think they always see it. My S. magnifica is a gorgeous, large flowered plant. I have tried crossing it with sellovii. S. magnifica had a huge flush of blooms and produced tons of seed. I have a crop of them coming along now. It is a lovely salmon peach. I hope that the cross with sellovii works as sellovii has a long bloom time (all year almost) but the individual flowers are not as impressive but are produced by the zillions. So something in between would be great. Time will tell. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. Soon to become www.floralarchitecture.com check it out soon 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From totototo@mail.pacificcoast.net Thu Nov 20 17:34:23 2003 Message-Id: <200311202234.hAKMYGUd008265@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Oxalis adenophylla Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:37:26 -800 On 19 Nov 03 at 18:20, Kenneth Hixson wrote: > Hi, Rodger, now you've added to the puzzle. > >As far as I'm concerned, this species is as tough as old boots and > >reports of difficulty with it puzzle me. > I thought Diane's suggestion of keeping it dry in summer must be > the answer, because I hadn't done that. Jane's growing it with > extreme drainage doesn't appear to be what you do in your garden. > I've tried it in various spots, all with good if not extreme > drainage, for instance in a pot above of a lily, edging the > sidewalk by/under rhododendrons, and so on, and they last for a > while if not flower heavily, then no more. Your climate should be > similiar to mine, and the oxalis here were never put in full sun. > So, do yours get dry in summer? Ken, western Oregon The patch that's in heavyish soil is also very near a large Alberta blue spruce, and the bed would be sucked dry in summer if I didn't water it. The site is sunny enough in summer that a shade-loving Athyrium ("Japanese painted fern") gets burnt unless I keep the soil very moist -- which I don't do faithfully, being a lazy gardener. Perhaps the fact that it's 10-15' north of my house and shaded in winter helps? That would exaggerate the seasonal swing in temperatures, also the diurnal swing in winter. It might be worth noting that the established patch has the bulbs just below soil level. Maybe the original poster planted hers too deep in the pots? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From msittner@mcn.org Mon Nov 24 15:17:12 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031124112132.00d38e20@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Oxalis Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 11:39:17 -0800 Dear All, I'm not sure I thanked everyone for providing me with the information about Oxalis so I could make corrections on the Oxalis wiki pages. Like Jane I live in a rural area with a slow connection so working on the wiki is very time consuming for me but I think I have made most of the changes and added a link to Robin Attrill's introduction for the topic of the week as well. Thank you all. Let me know if I have missed something. And does anyone have any information about Oxalis tomentosa which is illustrated by Bill Dijk? I haven't yet found the time to write about the cultivars using the email address supplied by David Victor, but hopefully will find time. Because I am the proud owner of a watercolor painting by Zoë Carter (A grouping of a Moraea, Babiana, and Geissorhiza) I especially loved the Collection of Oxalis that Bill Dijk added to the bottom of the Oxalis page. I wondered if he could identify what each one was and he kindly added names so I have added a second photo with the names written over the different species. Since most all of them are South African I have added this picture to the South African Oxalis page as well at the bottom. So if you missed this you might want to look at it. Other additions to the South African page are a picture of Oxalis karooica furnished by Andrew Wilson of his plants currently in bloom and one I took yesterday of Oxalis commutata which increases to a frightening degree and blooms for me in fall. From my experience it increases much faster than the Oxalis I have from Michael Vassar he identified as O. caprina which has tiny tufted leaves. That one is supposed to be weedy. Anyone outside of South Africa found that to be true? Oxalis commutata is illustrated in my Karoo field guide where is is described as appearing in flats after good spring rains. In the Cape it blooms from April to June which makes me wonder if you could manipulate it so you could have some going in the fall and some in the spring. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Oxalis http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalis Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From robin@rpattrill.freeserve.co.uk Mon Nov 24 17:35:09 2003 Message-Id: <002901c3b2db$34209b80$3c22893e@ibmcatwpkh6omz> From: "Robin Attrill" Subject: Oxalis Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:35:02 -0000 Mary Sue, Some comments:- >And does anyone have any information about Oxalis tomentosa which is illustrated by Bill Dijk? It is a South African species & should be moved to that page. >Other additions to the South African page are a picture of Oxalis karooica >furnished by Andrew Wilson of his plants currently in bloom ... As discussed in previous Emails O karooica does not appear in IPNI or the mainstream Oxalis literature (including Salters book). The plant illustrated may be a colour form of O gracilis. >.........From my experience it increases much faster than the >Oxalis I have from Michael Vassar he identified as O. caprina which has >tiny tufted leaves. That one is supposed to be weedy. Anyone outside of >South Africa found that to be true? The photos on the wiki labelled as O caprina are not this species which has multiple flowered peduncles. Michael Vassars collection list (which I am editing to a suitable format for posting on the wiki) does not allocate MV4674 to this taxon - it is un-named with a tentative assignment of O. imbricata. It is not this either! I have the plant in my collection but have not keyed it out. Regards Robin From msittner@mcn.org Mon Nov 24 19:51:17 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031124160114.01ad9700@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Oxalis Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:49:27 -0800 Dear Robin, If there has been a discussion about Oxalis karooica I have missed it. I have looked through what I've saved and I can't find it, at least not on the pbs list. Maybe it occurred somewhere else. Uli recently sent me something labeled as that so I guess I need to change the name. I couldn't find it in any of my books, but thought if Uli, Andrew, and Bill Dijk were growing it perhaps it was just one of those in other parts of South Africa that aren't in my books. I will change it to be a sp. however if that is the general consensus. We will start having a lot of those. I probably should move Lyn Edwards picture from the Mystery Bulb page as well since no one ever figured it out. I will change the Oxalis caprina too. Joyce Miller and I wrote Michael Vassar to ask him if he had keyed out any of the plants he gave to IBS and that is where I got the name. I still have the email Joyce sent to me from him: Joyce, Names for the numbers on your list are: 4674 Oxalis caprina 4719 O. convexula 4720 O. obtusa 4719D O. obtusa 4967 O. ambigua 4991 O. densa 5005A O. obtusa 5117 O. commutata? 5630A O. sp. still unidentified 5667 O. luteola 6235 O. obtusa 6316 O. obtusa 6396 O. polyphylla var. heptaphylla 7087 O. obtusa I have found Oxalis tomentosa in Cape Plants so I can now write about it. Except that book says it has white flowers like Bill's and hairy trifoliate leaves and in his picture the leaves although wonderfully hairy don't look trifoliate to me. I hope it won't need to be changed too, but guess we'd want to know if it is wrong too. Sigh.... Keeping the Oxalis straight is a challenge. Thanks for your help. Mary Sue From mark@marksgardenplants.com Tue Nov 25 15:38:52 2003 Message-Id: <003501c3b394$20c46760$15322ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: member Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:38:47 -0000 hi all Just a quick message to let you know that I have officially joined the PBS. I must start adding my photos for you all to see. Mark Northern Ireland where bulbs are 6-8 weeks ahead of time this year From ajbroome@xtra.co.nz Tue Nov 25 16:28:24 2003 Message-Id: <20031125212820.LBAH12184.web3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> From: Subject: Oxalis Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:28:20 +1300 Mary Sue, > I have found Oxalis tomentosa in Cape Plants so I can > now write about it. Except that book says it has white > flowers like Bill's and hairy trifoliate leaves and in > his picture the leaves although wonderfully hairy don't > look trifoliate to me. The plant I grow as O. tomentosa is certainly *not* trifoliate but is definitely very hairy. I've never had it flower. Salter says that O. tomentosa has 5 to 15 leaves with 10 to 20 leaflets, peltately spreading. This matches my plant but doesn't match this: http://makeashorterlink.com/?D525124A6 My plant, although not obtained through him, looks like Bills. > Keeping the Oxalis straight is a challenge. It's all good clean fun though :) Andrew. From ajbroome@xtra.co.nz Tue Nov 25 16:43:07 2003 Message-Id: <20031125214304.LFDP12184.web3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> From: Subject: Oxalis Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:43:04 +1300 Robin said... > As discussed in previous Emails O karooica does not > appear in IPNI or the mainstream Oxalis literature > (including Salters book). The plant illustrated > may be a colour form of O gracilis. The plants currently grown in NZ (I can't speak for the rest of the world) as O. karooica, O. karrooica, O. karrioca and so on and (interestingly) O. pardalis all seem to match the description and photos I've seen for O. gracilis. I've recently acquired a new form labelled as O. karrooica and am waiting to see if it differs in any way, I suspect not. Time will tell. The next update of my webpage will combine the listing for O. karooica and O. pardalis under O. gracilis. Andrew. From ggroiti@agro.uba.ar Tue Nov 25 17:52:36 2003 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20031125194742.0219e1f8@pop3.agro.uba.ar> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n?= Roitman Subject: Sinningia--TOW Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 19:52:17 -0300 Hello All: I have some experience cultivating Sinningia tubiflora, and also Sinningia stricta, this one ussually grow in the same places of S. tubiflora, and is also easy to cultivate. You can have a look here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/sinningiastricta-1.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Sinningia Best wishes Germán _______________________________________ Ing. Agr. MSc Germán Roitman mailto:groitman@mail.retina.ar Cátedra de Jardinería FAUBA Av. San Martín 4453. 1417. Buenos Aires Argentina ICQ: 1837762 _______________________________________ From robin@rpattrill.freeserve.co.uk Tue Nov 25 18:56:52 2003 Message-Id: <003301c3b3af$c3b789a0$8948893e@ibmcatwpkh6omz> From: "Robin Attrill" Subject: Oxalis names etc etc Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 23:56:36 -0000 Mary Sue, Andrew, Andrew et al, re Oxalis tomentosa, the plant illustrated at http://makeashorterlink.com/?D525124A6 , whilst clearly tomentose and rather attractive, is not this taxon - the plant illustrated on the wiki fits the description and is, beyond any reasonable doubt, this species. re Oxalis gracilis/karooica, the plants under this name, at least in the UK, whilst showing some variation, generally resemble the plant illustrated as gracilis in Du Plessis and Duncan, Bulbous Plants of Southern Africa plate 4, fig 7, although the leaves are a little larger and the flowers paler, probably due to inadequate light levels. They are very distinct from O. pardalis and O massoniana which have a very different mode of growth. O. karooica (or a related spelling thereof) may well be published somewhere, possibly in a thesis, but I have not been able to locate it. In addition there are other very similar species to gracilis, eg O. reclinata, to consider. For the time being I believe applying names with confidence to this complex is rather difficult to say the least. re O caprina, the only one in Michael Vassars collection list that I have seen assigned this name is MV6051. re names for the MV numbers, thanks Mary Sue for the list. I have others, received in the past from Diana Chapman, and have some assignments of my own. I will annotate the list with these, identifying the sources of the names added, before posting on the wiki. Overall the only generalisation that can be made with naming Oxalis is that it is fraught with problems. The literature issues are only part of the problem, as intraspecific variation and variation in appearance due to variable cultivation conditions mean that some existing keys do not function well. In this situation maintaining links with the origins of cultivated plants is very important - certainly if plants are received with MV numbers it is helpful to maintain them on subsequent labelling. regards Robin From davidxvictor@mailblocks.com Wed Nov 26 09:07:32 2003 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.0.20031126140131.01e67668@app4.mailblocks.com> From: David Victor Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 10, Issue 32 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:07:21 +0000 Mary Sue wrote: And does anyone have >any information about Oxalis tomentosa which is illustrated by Bill Dijk? Superficially, the foliage of O. tomentosa is similar to O. palmifrons. However, the former is a light, yellow green, whilst the latter is a darker blue-green. Also, the former tends to have a few of the segments forming a raised tuft in the centre, whereas the latter is totally flat. To me, the tri-foliate description you mention doesn't fit. Indeed, Salter's description has the plant with 5 - 15, leaves on 5cms petioles, with patent hairs: leaflets 10 - 20. Whilst I can't be certain, Bill's plant looks correct to me. Best regards, David Victor From msittner@mcn.org Wed Nov 26 11:28:02 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031126075807.01b25d30@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Oxalis tomentosa Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 08:12:13 -0800 Dear Robin, Andrew, and David, Does anyone know the identity of B. Bayer who wrote the Oxalis descriptions in Cape Plants? I don't have the name of the person who was doing the research on Oxalis in South Africa so I am curious about the source of the information in this book. Sometimes people use their own information and other times they use information from other books. It sounds like the description in Cape Plants is really different for this species than what Salter has written. And the picture from Andrew was from the Missouri Botanical Garden which you usually trust for South Africa, but perhaps it should only be for certain families. It makes me wonder how much I can trust Cape Plants. Here is what was written about Oxalis tomentosa in Cape Plants. Under Peduncle 1 flowered, leaves usually 4 or more foliolate (a contradiction already) "tomentosa L.f. Vingersuring Densely silky hairy acaulescent geophyte. Leaves trifoliolate, silky hairy, leaflets 10-20 oblong-cuneate. Flowers white with yellow tube. Apr.-June. Grassy flats and slopes, 75-150 m, NW, SW (Clanwilliam to Cape Peninsula)." I have found a picture in the West Coast field guide so will use the information from it to change the wiki. Thanks all. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Wed Nov 26 11:27:53 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031126081223.01b2edf0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Topic of the Week Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 08:24:54 -0800 Dear All, This is a week in the United States when a lot of people travel to visit their families so I expect it will be a quiet week unless some of our International Members post. I've lost contact with the man who was going to do an introduction for this week so we will just skip the week. Here is what is planned for December Dec. 1--The first of Diane Whitehead's monthly topics on what to do in December (I'm not sure what she is going to call it Dec. 8--Scilla with Jerry Flintoff introducing Dec. 15--Urls revisited Dec. 22--Bulbs for the holidays (I assume this will be another quiet week so we can talk about what is blooming or bulbs that people around the world associate with different holidays) Dec. 29--Cyrtanthus with Bill Dijk introducing (and hopefully some input from Paul Chapman too if he has time) I finally created a wiki page for the Topic of the Week linking to the archives for each topic. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TOW I hope eventually to link each introduction we had for a genus to that genus page. But that depends on when I find the time. For those of you in the United States, Happy Thanksgiving! I am really happy for this group and all I learn from everybody. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From mark@marksgardenplants.com Wed Nov 26 12:32:07 2003 Message-Id: <001f01c3b443$333dc300$1e322ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Cyclamen cyprium Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:31:54 -0000 hi all I have just uploaded my first image to the site. The image is of Cyclamen cyprium http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/cyclamen-cyprium.jpg Mark N Ireland where Galanthus 'Handel' is in flower instead of January. From mark@marksgardenplants.com Wed Nov 26 12:34:57 2003 Message-Id: <002801c3b443$9cb25fd0$1e322ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Cyclamen intaminatum Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:34:57 -0000 hi all Here is a photo of Cyclamen intaminatum http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/cyclamen-intaminatum.jpg Mark N Ireland zone8 From mark@marksgardenplants.com Wed Nov 26 12:40:30 2003 Message-Id: <003c01c3b444$5d4821d0$1e322ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: leucojum roseum Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:40:07 -0000 hi all Lastly from me is a lovely shot of Leucojum (autumnale) roseum http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/leucojum-autumnale.jpg Can someone tell me the proper name of the plant? I have seen it written as L. roseum and L.a. 'Roseum' Mark N Ireland From msittner@mcn.org Wed Nov 26 13:03:04 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031126095011.00d9c800@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Oxalis Resource Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:01:21 -0800 Dear All, My husband said he thought he had written down the woman's name who was doing the research on Oxalis and he had but the spelling was in question. Then I wondered if that information was in David Victor's first post to us when he was introducing himself and it was. Her name is Dr Leanne Dreyer so she is not the one who wrote the Cape Plants section on Oxalis. It was helpful to reread David's post and I have added a link to it on the Oxalis wiki page too since it gives a lot of good background information. Unfortunately it doesn't have a subject listed to help you find it so I am including it here for anyone who missed it. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2003-September/004208.html Mary Sue From hkoopowi@uci.edu Wed Nov 26 13:26:17 2003 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20031126102538.018afca8@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: leucojum roseum Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:26:09 -0800 Mark Can you post a picture of the entire plant? thanks Harold At 05:40 PM 11/26/2003 +0000, you wrote: >hi all > >Lastly from me is a lovely shot of Leucojum (autumnale) roseum >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/leucojum-autumnale.jpg > >Can someone tell me the proper name of the plant? I have seen it written >as L. roseum and L.a. 'Roseum' > >Mark >N Ireland >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Prof. Harold Koopowitz Ecology and Evolutionary Biology University of California, Irvine, CA 92697 From MMiller192@aol.com Wed Nov 26 13:48:33 2003 Message-Id: <42.41a10896.2cf64f7c@aol.com> From: MMiller192@aol.com Subject: Oxalis tomentosa Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:48:28 EST When I see the name B. Bayer I think of Bruce Bayer. He is a South African who has written several books on Haworthia, which are succulents related to Aloes. The biographical blurb in his Haworthia Revisited says he started out as an entomologist but switched to plants and that he was curator of the Karoo Botanic Garden in Worcester. From eagle85@flash.net Wed Nov 26 15:29:26 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: member Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:17:14 -0800 Mark SmythDoug Westfall mark@marksgardenplants.com1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > hi all > > Just a quick message to let you know that I have officially joined the PBS. I > must start adding my photos for you all to see. > > Mark > Northern Ireland > where bulbs are 6-8 weeks ahead of time this year > _______________________________________________ Mark, Welcome. I look forward to seeing some of yor pics. Doug From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Nov 26 22:00:04 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031126122429.00b83cd8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: leucojum roseum Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:33:08 -0800 Harold Koopowitz has requested a full-plant photo of the bulb Mark SMyth posted as "Leucojum (autumnale) roseum", and that will certainly help sort out what it is, since the foliage of the L. autumnale (which can have more or less pink in the flower depending on the individual) and the foliage of L. roseum (which is not, as far as I can tell, lumped with L. autumnale by any of the books I have here) are quite different. The leaves of L. autumnale are long and held upright, while those of L. roseum are much shorter, more flattened, and held nearly horizontally. In addition, L. roseum is sweetly fragrant, but I haven't noticed any fragrance on L. autumnale. L. roseum is by far the smaller of the two, and purportedly much less cold-tolerant; I have always grown it in a pot in my frost-free plant room. Finally, L. autumnale increases very rapidly, but L. roseum is slower to increase, at least as I am growing them. Both are exquisite in flower, but L. autumnale can become a pest in a bulb collection through self-sowing. I've learned the hard way to remove the capsules before they ripen. It is not a problem in the garden here because of its small size and marginal hardiness in this climate. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA, where the snow has finished melting for the time being, and the rhododendrons are on their feet again. From dells@voicenet.com Wed Nov 26 16:24:59 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: BX 50 packages in the mail Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:24:00 -0500 The packages for US participants went into the mail today, Wednesday. Others should go out on Friday. Enjoy (and Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate it!), Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From arnold@nj.rr.com Wed Nov 26 17:13:15 2003 Message-Id: <3ead953ebd96.3ebd963ead95@rdc-nyc.rr.com> From: arnold@nj.rr.com Subject: BX 50 packages in the mail Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:13:14 -0600 Dell: I hope you have a great holiday and I am thankful for all your hard work and dedication to the BX/SX. Without your work it wouldn't be. Arnold New Jersey From eagle85@flash.net Wed Nov 26 17:41:32 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: member Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:29:21 -0800 Mark SmythDoug Westfall mark@marksgardenplants.com1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA >> I look forward to seeing some of yor pics. > > Thanks Douglas. > > I have over 30,000 digital photographs to trawl through to decide what to > show here. > > Mark > N Ireland Mark, I take that as a "good" problem. I like to look at those pictures that I took over the past several years to remember what they lokk like. Doug From mark@marksgardenplants.com Wed Nov 26 17:33:52 2003 Message-Id: <004c01c3b46d$5ad4db40$1e322ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: leucojum roseum Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:33:45 -0000 hi Harold The plant is identical to L. autumnale with the same thin leaves Mark > Can you post a picture of the entire plant? From mark@marksgardenplants.com Wed Nov 26 17:36:38 2003 Message-Id: <005601c3b46d$c32bac00$1e322ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: member Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:36:40 -0000 > I look forward to seeing some of yor pics. Thanks Douglas. I have over 30,000 digital photographs to trawl through to decide what to show here. Mark N Ireland From mark@marksgardenplants.com Wed Nov 26 17:55:55 2003 Message-Id: <008101c3b470$74849a50$1e322ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: images Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:55:57 -0000 Douglas It is a major problem when there is a need to buy an external hard drive to move them to. I save my images in four sizes. Original, 800 pixels wide for desktop wallpaper, 600 pixels wide for web sites and 160 pixels wide for thumbnails. All images are saved in folders for each month of the year e.g. I'm working on 1103 and will add 1203 next week. Each folder has subfolders if I go anywhere to take photos. I also have folders for plant species e.g. hardy Geraniums and Galanthus. Mark From john@johnlonsdale.net Wed Nov 26 19:14:38 2003 Message-Id: <20031127001438.7065F200DA@happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: Leucojum roseum Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:14:28 -0500 Harold et al., There are pictures of flowers/whole plant of L. roseum at my web site (if the link splits over 2 lines you need to include both in the URL): http://edgewoodgardens.net/Plant%20Galleries/album.asp?cat=Amaryllidaceae\Le ucojum I find the small Leucojum to be not easy and frustrating to photograph, so the pictures are not great. L. roseum is around 50-60% of the height of L. autumnale when both are mature. Both do, however, initiate flowering just after they break the surface. The pot in the picture is 3 1/2" square. J. Dr John T Lonsdale, 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From john@johnlonsdale.net Wed Nov 26 22:08:45 2003 Message-Id: <20031127030845.6BE9F2011C@happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: Leucojum roseum Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:08:43 -0500 I would certainly concur with all of Jane's points differentiating L. autumnale and roseum. I have never heard of suggestions that they are anything other than discrete and distinct species. In my hands L. roseum is very slow to increase and more prone to rot. I have never tried it outside and doubt it would 'do' at all. L. autumnale does OK outdoors here but hates repeated freeze-thaws and ice on the leaves. Dr John T Lonsdale, 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From mark@marksgardenplants.com Thu Nov 27 03:49:40 2003 Message-Id: <001d01c3b4c3$6228a880$37d39851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Leucojum roseum Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:49:34 -0000 hi Jane & John Leucojum roseum is new to me this year. I bought it a week ago at an alpine plant sale. All your points have been noted. Thanks for your input. Mark From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Thu Nov 27 05:07:04 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20031127210815.00b89220@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Leucojum roseum Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:08:15 +1100 >anything other than discrete and distinct species. In my hands L. roseum is >very slow to increase and more prone to rot. I have never tried it outside >and doubt it would 'do' at all. L. autumnale does OK outdoors here but >hates repeated freeze-thaws and ice on the leaves. > Howdy All, Leucojum roseum does fine here in my Canberra garden in a small pot. We get to -8'c most winters and no problem at all to the L. roseum. A difficult little beastie to photograph as it is so difficult to get the darn focus on such tiny little flowers or leaves . Definitely much slower multiplying that L. autumnale and I find it tends to be much shorter for me. Always a joy each year as it is at such a baking time of year for us and it is nice to have these little dears pop up "unexpectedly" almost overnight. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From msittner@mcn.org Thu Nov 27 11:07:44 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031127080133.00d45180@mail.mcn.org> From: akennedy@cix.co.uk Subject: Schizostylis DNA Project Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:05:57 -0800 Dear All, Alan Kennedy is on nomail at the moment since he is really busy with the project below. I thought you all might be interested in this report so with his permission am sending this on. ("No problem if you want to use my email to tell your members. The programme goes under the name, 'Project Ludwig'. For those wishing to know more about the background on the test lab I suggest they visit the Bioprofiles web site. www.bioprofiles.co.uk ") Mary Sue You might be interested to know I raised the large amount of money necessary to do the DNA tests on Schizostylis to hopefully identify the various cultivars and the project is well under way. Thanks are due to the Stanley Smith Horticultural Trust(UK) and Bioprofiles Ltd, who are probably the leading European research company in this field. The herbarium records associated with the tests are being supervised by staff from the Royal Botanic Gardens, Edinburgh and I am very grateful for their expertise and contribution. We have some 53 cultivars in the test programme with 3 newly collected in S. Africa. A very interesting new cultivar has turned up, again as yet un-named, and if it proves stable in cultivation and turns out to be recognisably different in the DNA tests it will be well worth all the effort on the project. Results are expected in the New Year and there will be a press release no doubt. Very best wishes, Alan Kennedy From Blee811@aol.com Thu Nov 27 13:16:21 2003 Message-Id: <17d.23ccd054.2cf7996d@aol.com> From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: Schizostylis DNA Project--Cost? Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:16:13 EST In a message dated 11/27/2003 11:08:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, akennedy@cix.co.uk writes: > You might be interested to know I raised the large amount of money > necessary to do the DNA tests on Schizostylis to hopefully identify the > various cultivars and the project is well under way. Just out of curiosity, can you give a range for what a "large amount of money" is for this kind of project? And then how long this project is expected to take? Bill Lee From mark@marksgardenplants.com Thu Nov 27 15:24:35 2003 Message-Id: <000901c3b524$7bc82430$ab6d2bd9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Leucojum roseum Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:24:38 -0000 A difficult little beastie to photograph So I have done well? Actually it's the camera that took the good shot. In macro it can go down to 2cm. Mark N Ireland From dirkwallace@bigpond.com Thu Nov 27 15:17:37 2003 Message-Id: <003401c3b524$f3de7b40$dcfa8690@bamburyc> From: "Dirk Wallace" Subject: Moraea vespertina Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:27:59 +1100 Hi All, Attached are some images of Moraea vespertina flowering for me now. This newly described species has fairly large white flowers that open around 6.00pm and close around 8.00pm, and they have a pure scent of lemons. Kind Regards, Dirk http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/morvespertina.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Moraeavespertina2.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Moraeavespertina3.jpg Check out my web site: http://www.users.bigpond.com/dirkwallace Email the Australian Bulb Association at: support@ausbulbs.org ABA Web Site: http://www.ausbulbs.org Checkout images of bulbs: http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/ Join our free email forums, with Yahoo Groups. Messages - Australian_Bulbs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Images - AB_images-subscribe@yahoogroups.com From tonyg@thealpinehouse.fsnet.co.uk Thu Nov 27 18:21:44 2003 Message-Id: <000f01c3b53d$9fb249c0$60c0193e@dan> From: "anthony goode" Subject: Leucojum roseum Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:24:35 -0000 Here in southern UK Leucojum roseum is an easy bulb for unheated greenhouse culture, flowering anytime from mid August onwards, a succession of flowers over a couple of months. It has survived (only just!) in a sandy raised bed outside but has not flowered there. Under glass it sets seed readily and this is a good means of increase. The green capsules ripen quickly ..... and it pops up in the plunge and surrounding pots if you don't catch it in time! Tony Goode. Norwich UK. Mintemp -8C From akennedy@cix.co.uk Fri Nov 28 05:34:52 2003 Message-Id: From: akennedy@cix.co.uk (A Kennedy) Subject: Schizostylis DNA test costs Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:35 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Bill Lee was enquiring about costs and timing associated with the tests. As this research is pretty leading edge in terms of cultivar identification it is not cheap and we are talking significant 4 figure sums. However as and when the processes become more common in practice costs will drop.. Chemicals and man hours are the main cost components. Let's face it many genera have difficult identification problems when following normal botanical procedures. This usually results in a lot of argument and confusion,so that any plantsman who wants to establish certainty in his stock is going to try to achieve results using DNA analysis. Re time scales this particular test will have to fit in with Bioprofiles other ongoing work but we expect results in the first quarter of 2004. The test itself involves about 240 hours using the technique of developing microsatellites and analysing them on a automated genetic analyser. Successful test work has already been carried out against a small selection of pelargonium cultivars and we are confident that we can produce valid data. regards Alan Kennedy NCCPG National Collection of Schizostylis Cultivars From Blee811@aol.com Fri Nov 28 07:56:41 2003 Message-Id: <12d.35c9f350.2cf8a005@aol.com> From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: DNA studies Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:56:37 EST In a message dated 11/28/2003 5:35:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, akennedy@cix.co.uk writes: > Bill Lee was enquiring about costs and timing associated with the tests.  > As this research is pretty leading edge in terms of cultivar > identification it is not cheap and we are talking significant 4 figure > sums.  However as and when the processes become more common in practice > costs will drop..  Chemicals and man hours are the main cost components. Thanks, Allen. Under $10,000 sounds very reasonable to me. The American Daffodil Society was funding a similar study on narcissus species until one of the researchers changed direction and dropped out. We were looking at higher costs than that, but they were also reasonable because they included the costs of collecting the samples. This DNA research is an incredible tool for straightening out what we think we know about different genera. Bill Lee From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Fri Nov 28 16:48:51 2003 Message-Id: <14e.272f7a68.2cf91cbd@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Lachenalia undulata on the Wiki Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:48:45 EST This one is only for the collector. Distinctive brown spot on the gibbosity. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Lachenalia_undulata.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Lachenalia_undulata1.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Lachenalia_undulata2.jpg Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From Johnson3591@aol.com Fri Nov 28 18:11:51 2003 Message-Id: <63.25a7f5d8.2cf93033@aol.com> From: Johnson3591@aol.com Subject: Archives, Lachenalia and such Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:11:47 EST Hi, I'm new to your list. I've been having a wonderful time reading through the archives, though I could not get the automated search feature to work (so I downloaded everything and have been slogging through it). I really enjoyed some of the comments from the members, including comments about pronouncing Latin names of plants. I grow some southeast-USA type bulbs and enjoy them immensely. Hymenocallis is a favorite species for me as well as Crinum and Zephyranthes (and related genera). I'm not on the Pacific Rim, but grew up there and enjoy reading posts from your members. If I get organized next summer I'll collect seed from Z. drummondii for SASE, it is so plentiful locally. After searching the archives I'm still confused about Lachenalia and cold. Silverhill Seeds claims the seeds they sell should endure quite a bit of cold, and they rate all of their Lachenalia offerings "zone 8" in the 2003 printed catalog. On the other hand, others have advised me (from actual experience) that the plants shouldn't be expected to take more than 25 F (and that only for a short duration), but there are a few tales of surviving down to 20 F or so (but the flowers were surely lost for the season). Is there any consensus out there on general cold-hardiness of this group? Are there any forms more cold hardy than others? Cordially, Joe From mark@marksgardenplants.com Fri Nov 28 18:23:17 2003 Message-Id: <001f01c3b606$92ec13f0$b7df2ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Galanthus 'Rosemary Burnham' Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:23:03 -0000 hi all I'm trying to trace a source for Galanthus 'Rosemary Burnham' which is of US origin up in the north west. I'm willing to buy bulbs or swap for other Galanthus. Mark N Ireland From mark@marksgardenplants.com Fri Nov 28 18:33:45 2003 Message-Id: <002b01c3b608$18224ac0$b7df2ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Galanthus 'Rosemary Burnham' Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:33:56 -0000 I just found this on the 'net http://www.rosemary-burnham.com/Snowdrop%20book%20article.htm Mark N Ireland From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Nov 28 18:49:56 2003 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Galanthus 'Rosemary Burnham' Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 15:49:50 -0800 It is from Vancouver, Canada. An ex-Vancouverite friend of mine here in Victoria has a large clump. Mucky looking. It has lost the crisp contrast that I like in snowdrops. Anyway, she sent some to Phil Cornish this summer, so it will be available in the UK. I will forward your message to her. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From Marque219@Yahoo.com Fri Nov 28 21:09:32 2003 Message-Id: From: Mark Wilcox Subject: New Griffinia Image Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 21:09:26 -0500 Dear all, I have added a macro image of a Griffinia aracensis seed to the wiki's collection. Here is the relevant page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Griffinia Mark Wilcox Washington, DC Zone 7b From donjournet@netspace.net.au Sat Nov 29 07:16:21 2003 Message-Id: <3FC88E07.F4A630C1@netspace.net.au> From: don journet Subject: Archives, Lachenalia and such Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 23:16:07 +1100 Hi Joe, Lachenalia hardiness would probably be difficult to define as a blanket statement without leaving a certain margin for variability and interpretation of zoning figures. A protracted 25 F in an area that usually experiences high humidity might result in water particles in the air falling as quite a heavy deposit of ice crystals. This I feel could affect the surface cells on the exposed leaves. Also as this temperature is below the freezing point of water the soil will freeze to varying depths if the low temperature is sustained. Here in south eastern Australia at low altitudes the lowest temperatures experienced generally do not last for more than a few hours around sun rise. As frosts generally occur on clear nights the mornings usually warm up quite quickly after sun rise. If one looks at the pattern of frost on the areas that have both trees and grassed areas there is a distinct tendency for the trees to prevent ice crystals falling on the areas under the tree overhang. Thus it is possible for us to place beds or pots under the northern aspect of the trees and gain protection. That is not to say that water that is raised up, allowing cold air all round the receptacle, will not gain a thin layer of ice but I am sure that it is quite considerably less than out in the open. In summary my plants given a little protection in an area that experiences -5 C (22 F) all survive but move the pots into open garden and the leaves and flowers are seriously damaged. Incidentally I can also have problems at the other end of the scale with bulbs getting cooked when temperatures exceed 40 C. I hope this helps sort out the conundrum. Regards Don Journet Bacchus Marsh Victoria Australia Zone 9 Johnson3591@aol.com wrote: > Hi, > > I'm new to your list. I've been having a wonderful time reading through the > archives, though I could not get the automated search feature to work (so I > downloaded everything and have been slogging through it). I really enjoyed some > of the comments from the members, including comments about pronouncing Latin > names of plants. > > I grow some southeast-USA type bulbs and enjoy them immensely. Hymenocallis > is a favorite species for me as well as Crinum and Zephyranthes (and related > genera). I'm not on the Pacific Rim, but grew up there and enjoy reading posts > from your members. If I get organized next summer I'll collect seed from Z. > drummondii for SASE, it is so plentiful locally. > > After searching the archives I'm still confused about Lachenalia and cold. > Silverhill Seeds claims the seeds they sell should endure quite a bit of cold, > and they rate all of their Lachenalia offerings "zone 8" in the 2003 printed > catalog. On the other hand, others have advised me (from actual experience) > that the plants shouldn't be expected to take more than 25 F (and that only for > a short duration), but there are a few tales of surviving down to 20 F or so > (but the flowers were surely lost for the season). > > Is there any consensus out there on general cold-hardiness of this group? > Are there any forms more cold hardy than others? > > Cordially, > > Joe > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From dells@voicenet.com Sat Nov 29 08:02:54 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 51 Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:01:55 -0500 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 51" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! SEED: (W = winter-growing; S = summer growing; WE = winter-growing, evergreen) From Mary Sue Ittner: 1. Alstroemeria hookeri--pretty pink, dwarf--W 2. Calochortus catalinae--W 3. Calochortus mariposa hybrids--W 4. Hesperoxiphion peruvianum--S for me, this one blooms and blooms if you dead head it and has amazing large yellow flowers 5. Lachenalia campanulata--this one is evergreen for me if I keep watering it 6. Lachenalia carnosa-W--dry part of South Africa, I really am fond of the leaves and flowers 7. Lachenalia contaminata-W--linear leaves, pretty white flowers 8. Lachenalia nervosa (syn. L. latifolia)-W great leaves on this one, spring bloom 9. Littonia modesta--S But does this need to be planted sooner 10. Sparaxis metelerkampiae--W One of the prettier former Synnotias From Mark Wilcox: 11. Bletilla striata (S): blooming divisions of this plant, with a very few too small to bloom next year. Plant in partial shade with the extreme end of the large growing tips just at, or very slightly beneath, the soil's surface. The tips are very fragile. If broken off, the plant will put all its energy into growing a new one, and won't settle down to blooming again for a couple years. 12. Bletilla striata X 'First Kiss' (S): blooming divisions same as above, with the following differences. This plant is somewhat smaller than the species in all its parts. The leaves are variegated, having a white margin around their edges. The flowers are almost all white, except for a very slight blush of violet. Plant these such that the growing tips are about half an inch below the soil's surface. From Dell Sherk: 13. Small bulbs of Rauhia decora. Amaryllidaceae. from Peru? These are 2.5-year-old seedlings. They are in the process of going dormant for the first time. I think that they need a dormancy to produce their greenish white flowers. Leaves are fleshy, petiolate, green, mottled white. Anyone have any more data? From Pat Bender: 14. Seed of Arisaema taiwanense Thank you, Mary Sue, Pat, and Mark !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From jshields104@insightbb.com Sat Nov 29 09:17:21 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031129091344.00b09340@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Clivia Auction Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 09:17:14 -0500 Hi all, The North American Clivia Society has opened it's first auction. See the details at http://www.northamericancliviasociety.org/ or go directly to http://www.northamericancliviasociety.org/auction.htm This auction is for members of NACS only, but non-members can join now and participate in the auction. There are some fabulous clivia plants available! 'Sir John Thouron" and 'Tessa' for instance...... Jim Shields, president North American Clivia Society ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From msittner@mcn.org Sat Nov 29 13:30:55 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031128215214.01ac6ad0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Archives, Lachenalia and such Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:29:09 -0800 Dear Joe, Welcome to our pbs list. My Lachenalias growing in a raised bed which you'd expect would give them a little more protection than growing in a pot all turned to mush one year when it got to 19 F. degrees (-7 C.)and stayed cold for three days. Some of them I saw again in a couple of year, but most were permanently gone. It has been my observation that a lot of people who grow this genus outside (southern California maybe excepted) give it some protection from the elements (overhead cover for instance). At least that was what I observed on trips to both New Zealand and even South Africa. And Don's experience using trees for the cover in Australia is another example. Bill Dijk had a system in New Zealand that impressed my husband and I enough that we adopted it. Most of my Lachenalias are on benches that are open all around but have a fiber glass cover. We have frost cloth attached to the roof of this bulb structure and rolled up. On those nights when very cold temperatures are predicted (a handful of times a year) we undo the ties and unroll all the frost cloth and the structure is then enclosed in frost cloth. It probably gives us a few more degrees of protection. Coastal species of most of the South African winter rainfall species are more likely to be tender. Plants that grow in the Sutherland region I would expect to be hardier since that area is much colder. I wish they had a field guide for that area as when I have talked to people in South Africa they rave about the delightful bulbs that grow there and it would be nice for those of us who live in colder climates to know which ones they are. I know there are some wonderful Romuleas and Daubenya aurea. I don't know how Rod and Rachel decide what zone to rate plants they offer in the Silverhill Catalog. They haven't grown all of these plants and even if they did, they wouldn't have the temperatures in Cape Town to test them. A forum like this one is useful because people can share their experiences. I looked through the Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs in the Lachenalia section, and looked for which bulbs had RV (Roggeveld Center) next to them. The Roggeveld is an area bordering on the Karoo that is a winter rainfall area where winter temperatures at the higher areas are low and frost and snow usual. Rainfall is 125-250 mm (5-10 inches) a year with the higher amounts along the escarpment. Choosing bulbs from this area could mean you'd be choosing the hardiest, but you still might have to test them to be sure. Some of the soils in this area are doleritic clay so during the rainy season the soil would probably remain wet. So here are the species with that label: L. alba, L. ameliae (widespread, so you might need seed from the colder areas), L. attenuata (also found in other areas), L. comptonii, L. congesta, L. doleritica, L. elegans, L. isopetala, L. macgregoriorum (I've never seen seed of this one), L. marlothii, L. multifolia, L. neilii, L. obscura (also found in other areas), L. schelpei, L. whitehillensis, L. zebrina. Some of the members of our group grow many of these I am sure. If any of these have survived very cold temperatures, please share which and how cold with the group. Mark Mazer has kindly shared offsets with the BX from time to time and I was the lucky recipient of L. zebrina which has the most wonderful leaves. It was good that I had a chance to admire the leaves since it rotted before it bloomed to my dismay. It is probably one of those with leaves that need protection from excessive winter humidity and dew. On another note I particularly am thrilled that you are enjoying our archives since more hours than I care to remember went into getting our old archives from our previous list transferred over to the new list. That discussion about pronouncing Latin names was especially memorable. In fact we edited a line out of it when we didn't get permission in time to include it. I will never feel embarrassed again as I struggle over a name and always reassure people that it doesn't really matter how you say it as long as the person on the other end can figure out what you mean. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Nov 29 16:44:01 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031129134137.00b8b4c8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Narcissus photos Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 13:43:55 -0800 Just to cheer us up in the dark days, I have posted several photos of hoop petticoat Narcissus on the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Narcissus_bulbocodium_pallidus.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Narcissus_bulbocodium_alpinus.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Narcissus_cantabricus_clusii.jpg Two of those names are invalid, so I would appreciate comments from experts on "bulbocodium alpinus" (received from a nonspecialist gardener) and "cantabricus clusii" (a guess on my part based on photos and description in the AGS journal). Thanks, Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From samhay@earthlink.net Sat Nov 29 22:33:16 2003 Message-Id: <37612254-22E6-11D8-82FD-000393B8CD9A@earthlink.net> From: Sam Hay Subject: Lapageria Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 19:35:17 -0800 Thank you all for information on my question on Lewesia and on books. A while back I acquired a Lapageria rosa. It now has two very lovely flowers. Will these flowers pollinate themselves? Can I expect to get seeds? Should I take any special precautions? Thank you for our help sam Zone 10 (Southern California) From voltaire@islandnet.com Sat Nov 29 23:05:20 2003 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Lapageria Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 20:05:17 -0800 Lapageria plants are self-sterile, so you will need to find another plant in flower to provide pollen for your two flowers. There is an excellent website with lots of information and pictures at http://www.lapageria.com/ -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From samclan@redshift.com Sat Nov 29 23:31:12 2003 Message-Id: <3FC972B0.20004@redshift.com> From: Shirley Meneice Subject: Pacific BX 51 Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 20:31:44 -0800 Dell, I would love #4, #7, #11 and #12. Have a lot of sprouting bulbs in my greenhouse, courtesy of the earlier offerings I subscribed to. Many thanks. Shirley Meneice, Box 1520, Pebble Beach, CA 93953 Dell Sherk wrote: > Dear All, > > The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for > sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me > PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 51" in the subject line. > Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify > quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. > When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a > statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS > treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a > good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already > have it. > Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of > the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF > THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future > offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org . Or > contact me at dells@voicenet.com > If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send > CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, > 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for > their donations. > > PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. > IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! > > SEED: > (W = winter-growing; S = summer growing; WE = winter-growing, evergreen) > >From Mary Sue Ittner: > > 1. Alstroemeria hookeri--pretty pink, dwarf--W > 2. Calochortus catalinae--W > 3. Calochortus mariposa hybrids--W > 4. Hesperoxiphion peruvianum--S for me, this one blooms and blooms if you > dead head it and has amazing large yellow flowers > 5. Lachenalia campanulata--this one is evergreen for me if I keep watering > it > 6. Lachenalia carnosa-W--dry part of South Africa, I really am fond of the > leaves and flowers > 7. Lachenalia contaminata-W--linear leaves, pretty white flowers > 8. Lachenalia nervosa (syn. L. latifolia)-W great leaves on this one, spring > bloom > 9. Littonia modesta--S But does this need to be planted sooner > 10. Sparaxis metelerkampiae--W One of the prettier former Synnotias > >From Mark Wilcox: > > 11. Bletilla striata (S): blooming divisions of this plant, with a very few > too small to bloom next year. Plant in partial shade with the extreme > end of the large growing tips just at, or very slightly beneath, the > soil's surface. The tips are very fragile. If broken off, the plant > will put all its energy into growing a new one, and won't settle down to > blooming again for a couple years. > > 12. Bletilla striata X 'First Kiss' (S): blooming divisions same as above, > with the following differences. This plant is somewhat smaller than the > species in all its parts. The leaves are variegated, having a white > margin around their edges. The flowers are almost all white, except for > a very slight blush of violet. Plant these such that the growing tips > are about half an inch below the soil's surface. > >From Dell Sherk: > > 13. Small bulbs of Rauhia decora. Amaryllidaceae. from Peru? These are > 2.5-year-old seedlings. They are in the process of going dormant for the > first time. I think that they need a dormancy to produce their greenish > white flowers. Leaves are fleshy, petiolate, green, mottled white. Anyone > have any more data? > >From Pat Bender: > > 14. Seed of Arisaema taiwanense > > Thank you, Mary Sue, Pat, and Mark !! > > Best wishes, > Dell > > --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > . > From voltaire@islandnet.com Sat Nov 29 23:37:21 2003 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: TOW What to Do Now - plan Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 20:37:19 -0800 I have not found someone in the Southern Hemisphere to coordinate a "What to Do Now" TOW. December is the easiest month to start here north of the Equator, as there is so little to do relative to the rest of the year. Perhaps someone in the Southern Hemisphere may like to begin when their gardening slows down a bit. My plan is to break the jobs up into five categories and introduce one per night, starting on Sunday. This will allow for comments during the rest of the week, which I will gather into one document for posting next year at the relevant time. I hope I have them organized so that the first ones will produce the most comment. If not, I will rearrange them next month. 1.Garden (including bulbframes) 2.Pots (tender plants and winter forcing) 3.Providers ( seed sellers, especially of short-lived seed and specialty nurseries that are open for only a short season) 4.Propagation 5.Problems I have been scouring my library, and have most information about Great Britain and the west coast of North America. I hope those living in other places will fill in my gaps. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From samclan@redshift.com Sun Nov 30 00:04:54 2003 Message-Id: <3FC97A9B.2060305@redshift.com> From: Shirley Meneice Subject: Archives, Lachenalia and such Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 21:05:31 -0800 Thank you, Mary Sue, for the last paragraph of your report. You would be surprised at how many people are intimidated when having to pronounce Latin plant names. As you comment, if the person on the other end can understand the plant you are describing, that's all that is important. But he or she can't guess what you are talking about if you describe it as Winter Ice Plant or Blue Curls or Money Plant. That same plant may have 7 or 17 common names, many of which are only known in one geographical area. Stick with the Latin, even if you are not certain how to pronounce it. They know it in China, South Africa, Chile and even California. Shirley Meneice, Zone 9+, Latin ability -. Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Dear Joe, > > Welcome to our pbs list. My Lachenalias growing in a raised bed which > you'd expect would give them a little more protection than growing in a > pot all turned to mush one year when it got to 19 F. degrees (-7 C.)and > stayed cold for three days. Some of them I saw again in a couple of > year, but most were permanently gone. It has been my observation that a > lot of people who grow this genus outside (southern California maybe > excepted) give it some protection from the elements (overhead cover for > instance). At least that was what I observed on trips to both New > Zealand and even South Africa. And Don's experience using trees for the > cover in Australia is another example. Bill Dijk had a system in New > Zealand that impressed my husband and I enough that we adopted it. Most > of my Lachenalias are on benches that are open all around but have a > fiber glass cover. We have frost cloth attached to the roof of this bulb > structure and rolled up. On those nights when very cold temperatures are > predicted (a handful of times a year) we undo the ties and unroll all > the frost cloth and the structure is then enclosed in frost cloth. It > probably gives us a few more degrees of protection. > > Coastal species of most of the South African winter rainfall species are > more likely to be tender. Plants that grow in the Sutherland region I > would expect to be hardier since that area is much colder. I wish they > had a field guide for that area as when I have talked to people in South > Africa they rave about the delightful bulbs that grow there and it would > be nice for those of us who live in colder climates to know which ones > they are. I know there are some wonderful Romuleas and Daubenya aurea. > > I don't know how Rod and Rachel decide what zone to rate plants they > offer in the Silverhill Catalog. They haven't grown all of these plants > and even if they did, they wouldn't have the temperatures in Cape Town > to test them. A forum like this one is useful because people can share > their experiences. > > I looked through the Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs in the Lachenalia > section, and looked for which bulbs had RV (Roggeveld Center) next to > them. The Roggeveld is an area bordering on the Karoo that is a winter > rainfall area where winter temperatures at the higher areas are low and > frost and snow usual. Rainfall is 125-250 mm (5-10 inches) a year with > the higher amounts along the escarpment. Choosing bulbs from this area > could mean you'd be choosing the hardiest, but you still might have to > test them to be sure. Some of the soils in this area are doleritic clay > so during the rainy season the soil would probably remain wet. > > So here are the species with that label: L. alba, L. ameliae > (widespread, so you might need seed from the colder areas), L. attenuata > (also found in other areas), L. comptonii, L. congesta, L. doleritica, > L. elegans, L. isopetala, L. macgregoriorum (I've never seen seed of > this one), L. marlothii, L. multifolia, L. neilii, L. obscura (also > found in other areas), L. schelpei, L. whitehillensis, L. zebrina. Some > of the members of our group grow many of these I am sure. If any of > these have survived very cold temperatures, please share which and how > cold with the group. Mark Mazer has kindly shared offsets with the BX > from time to time and I was the lucky recipient of L. zebrina which has > the most wonderful leaves. It was good that I had a chance to admire the > leaves since it rotted before it bloomed to my dismay. It is probably > one of those with leaves that need protection from excessive winter > humidity and dew. > > On another note I particularly am thrilled that you are enjoying our > archives since more hours than I care to remember went into getting our > old archives from our previous list transferred over to the new list. > That discussion about pronouncing Latin names was especially memorable. > In fact we edited a line out of it when we didn't get permission in > time to include it. I will never feel embarrassed again as I struggle > over a name and always reassure people that it doesn't really matter how > you say it as long as the person on the other end can figure out what > you mean. > > Mary Sue > > > Mary Sue Ittner > California's North Coast > Wet mild winters with occasional frost > Dry mild summers > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > . > From jthirloway1@earthlink.net Sun Nov 30 01:35:13 2003 Message-Id: From: Jerry Thirloway Subject: Dierama book Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 22:37:33 -0800 What little information i find is for the most part conflicting. Some say keep them dry some say wet. No where have I read how deep do you plant them. Someone told me they like the soil on acid side. I would be interested in your thoughts I live on the coast in San Diego California. From Theladygardens@aol.com Sun Nov 30 02:38:46 2003 Message-Id: <67.1d547aca.2cfaf883@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Latin Names Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 02:38:43 EST I agree with Mary Sue's comments about Latin names. Whether you can pronounce it correctly or not if you know the latin name you can find it in a botanical book to get information about the plant. Another good reason to learn the latin name is when you see the plant for $79.99 in a nursery, if you know the latin name you can usually find the same plant for a fraction of that cost. I have done this often, and it is my best excuse when people tease me about calling plants by their botanical names. I am a novice and really really appreciate all of the information so many of you put into the PBS Thanks, Carolyn Craft From donjournet@netspace.net.au Sun Nov 30 07:24:28 2003 Message-Id: <3FC9E17B.3DC49F7@netspace.net.au> From: don journet Subject: Archives, Lachenalia and such Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:24:27 +1100 Hi, Lachenalia hardiness would probably be difficult to define as a blanket statement without leaving a certain margin for variability and interpretation of zoning figures. A protracted 25 F in an area that usually experiences high humidity might result in water particles in the air falling as quite a heavy deposit of ice crystals. This I feel could affect the surface cells on the exposed leaves. Also as this temperature is below the freezing point of water the soil will freeze to varying depths if the low temperature is sustained. Here in south eastern Australia the lowest temperatures experienced generally do not last for more than a few hours around sun rise. As frosts generally occur on clear nights the mornings usually warm up quite quickly after sun rise. If one looks at the pattern of frost on the areas that have both trees and grassed areas there is a distinct tendency for the trees to prevent ice crystals falling on the areas under the tree overhang. Thus it is possible for us to place beds or pots under the northern aspect of the trees and gain protection. That is not to say that water that is raised up, allowing cold air all round the receptacle, will not gain a thin layer of ice but I am sure that it is quite considerably less than out in the open. In summary my plants given a little protection in an area that experiences -5 C (2 F) all survive but move the pots into open garden and the leaves and flowers are seriously damaged. Incidentally I can also have problems at the other end of the scale with bulbs getting cooked when temperatures exceed 40 C. Johnson3591@aol.com wrote: > Hi, > > I'm new to your list. I've been having a wonderful time reading through the > archives, though I could not get the automated search feature to work (so I > downloaded everything and have been slogging through it). I really enjoyed some > of the comments from the members, including comments about pronouncing Latin > names of plants. > > I grow some southeast-USA type bulbs and enjoy them immensely. Hymenocallis > is a favorite species for me as well as Crinum and Zephyranthes (and related > genera). I'm not on the Pacific Rim, but grew up there and enjoy reading posts > from your members. If I get organized next summer I'll collect seed from Z. > drummondii for SASE, it is so plentiful locally. > > After searching the archives I'm still confused about Lachenalia and cold. > Silverhill Seeds claims the seeds they sell should endure quite a bit of cold, > and they rate all of their Lachenalia offerings "zone 8" in the 2003 printed > catalog. On the other hand, others have advised me (from actual experience) > that the plants shouldn't be expected to take more than 25 F (and that only for > a short duration), but there are a few tales of surviving down to 20 F or so > (but the flowers were surely lost for the season). > > Is there any consensus out there on general cold-hardiness of this group? > Are there any forms more cold hardy than others? > > Cordially, > > Joe > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Sun Nov 30 07:43:21 2003 Message-Id: <44.389fd77a.2cfb3fe5@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Archives, Lachenalia and such Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 07:43:17 EST In a message dated 11/29/2003 1:31:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, msittner@mcn.org writes: L. zebrina which has the most wonderful leaves. It was good that I had a chance to admire the leaves since it rotted before it bloomed to my dismay. It is probably one of those with leaves that need protection from excessive winter humidity and dew. I too have had difficulty with L. zebrina, seedlings damp off easily and the bulbs tend to rot under my growing conditions. I am now potting them in 100% sand and keep them in the alpine plunge where a fan runs 24x7. L. zebrina f. zebrina seems to be more amenable to cultivation here. Another Lachenalia with good looking leaves is L. attenuata. Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From jennifer.hildebrand@att.net Sun Nov 30 11:32:16 2003 Message-Id: <113020031632.11712.5980@att.net> From: jennifer.hildebrand@att.net Subject: "The Bulb Garden" Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:32:14 +0000 Hi all, I have heard from Marguerite, our Vice President and Editor of "The Bulb Garden". Despite the disruption caused by the fires (she doesn't expect her phone service to be restored for another 2-3 weeks!!!), she has been hard at work on our next edition, and has asked me to let you know that it should reach us all this week (except maybe international members, depending on mail speed). Joining you all in anticipation, Jennifer PBS Treasurer From dells@voicenet.com Sun Nov 30 12:19:43 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 51 CLOSED Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 12:18:49 -0500 Things were quickly over-subscribed. I am afraid some of you will be disappointed. I'll do what I can. Packages should go out later this week. Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From dells@voicenet.com Sun Nov 30 12:20:09 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Rauhia Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 12:18:51 -0500 Dear All, Rob Hamilton forwarded this info on Rauhia which was originally sent to the IBS list by Alan Meerow. "I'm pretty sure that I posted pics of Rauhia on the IBS gallery. All Rauhias have green flowers. 2 spp. look like green Phaedranassas, one (R. decora) like a green Eucrosia but without staminal cup or nectar glands at the base of the stamens. They come from seasonally dry inter-Andean valleys along the Maranon and Utcubamba drainages at intermediate elevations. Dry them off in winter; they usually spontaneously begin active growth in spring. Gritty mix is good." And Alberto Castillo passed on this info. "As for the Rauhia it comes from a tropical part of Peru and probably needs hot conditions even during their dry winter dormancy." From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Nov 30 18:34:38 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031130104340.00b920c8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Archives, Lachenalia and such Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 10:50:35 -0800 Don Journet mentioned the extra protection afforded tender foliage by placing it in shaded areas, which he attributed to trees preventing the fall of frost crystals onto the leaves. It is often possible to grow marginally hardy plants in areas that do not receive morning sun. I think this is so because the foliage does not thaw quickly after being frozen. I was discussing Muscari macrocarpum with a Dutch friend who cannot grow it in the open, and we agreed that the difference was that my plants were in a raised bed that is shaded during winter mornings by trees to the south, even though it is very sunny the rest of the year. There is a vivid illustration of this effect in my bulb frame. I have a 10-inch diameter pot containing North African Scilla haemorrhoidalis (what a name!) with broad, tender leaves that happens to be placed just where the shadow of the south wall of the frame bisects it. After a recent cold, sunny spell, the leaves on the north side of the pot were frozen about halfway to the tips, while those on the south, shaded side were undamaged. I put some pots of Lachenalia in the frame this fall, since they were just getting stretched and were not flowering well in the greenhouse. One receiving sun looks pretty unhappy, but one up against the south wall of the frame, and hence in shade, looks quite normal. However, they are different species, so this is not a good experiment. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From totototo@mail.pacificcoast.net Thu Nov 27 14:27:02 2003 Message-Id: <200311271926.hARJQoof016223@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Leucojum roseum Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 11:30:17 -800 On 26 Nov 03 at 22:08, John Lonsdale wrote: > ...In my hands L. roseum is very slow to increase and more prone to > rot. It reaches flowering size very quickly from seed. I have had seed sown in January give flowering bulbs 18 months later. The seeds were originally sown in a 3.5" plastic pot; once they germinated and roots were appearing at the drain holes, the entire soil mass was carefully potted on as a whole in a 6" pot (one of those square "one gallon" pots that a lot of nursery stock comes in). They were fed fairly liberally. > ... I have never tried it outside and doubt it would 'do' at all. It's definitely considerably more tender than L. autumnale. I consider L.autumnale to be fully hardy, but L.roseum must live in a pot protected from any but the lightest frosts. Jane McGary mentioned in passing that for her L. autumnale is marginally hardy, demonstrating the significance of maritime influence on climate -- Victoria is nearly surrounded by saltwater. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From Theladygardens@aol.com Sun Nov 30 14:46:52 2003 Message-Id: <23.381ca51f.2cfba325@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Latin Names Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:46:45 EST When I am in a nursery and see a new 'must have' plant that is priced way beyond my budget, it usually has a common name. If I do not know the correct name I read all the fine print and ask questions until I find the botanical name. Sometimes I already know the botanical name. I can look for the plant by its botanical name in catalogs, on the internet or in the same nursery for much less. Example: I once saw a 3' tall plant labeled Black Taro for $79.99. In the same nursery I found a 4" pot with a 9" tall Colocasia Nigra for $4.99. I was pretty sure they were the same plant, bought the small one and in 2 months it was as large and beautiful as their $79.99 version. Another time a friend called and said I just had to get her a tree she just found at a nursery priced over $100. She gave me some ridiculous name common only to that nursery. I told her to go back, read all the fine print on the tag and see if she could find a botanical name. I also suggested 2-3 possibilities from her description of the flowers on the tree. She called the next day with one of the names I suggested and we were able to find her a Bauhina Tree for around $20.00 I found a beautiful plant in a hanging basket for $89.99 at a nursery, again with a common name. It was a plant that is usually grown in the ground, very easily started and grown from seed. So I bought a package of seed, planted it in a hanging basket and in 2 months had one as beautiful as their $89.99 version. It was Cerinthe major purpulescens and if you haven't tried it in a hanging basket, do. It is most beautiful looking up into the flowers rather than down at the nodding blossoms. Just remember to pinch often in the beginning to get it thick and lush. I'm sure you do the same thing, just never thought of it as saving yourself money by knowing the botanical names. It's just a good argument when people harrass me about needing to know the botanical name. Carolyn Craft in Los Gatos, CA From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 30 14:17:28 2003 Message-Id: <3FCA499E.2D053BD7@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Latin Names Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:48:46 -0800 I was intrigued to know knowing Latin names helps lower costs, can you explain? Cheers, John E. Bryan Theladygardens@aol.com wrote: > > I agree with Mary Sue's comments about Latin names. Whether you can > pronounce it correctly or not if you know the latin name you can find it in a > botanical book to get information about the plant. Another good reason to learn the > latin name is when you see the plant for $79.99 in a nursery, if you know the > latin name you can usually find the same plant for a fraction of that cost. I > have done this often, and it is my best excuse when people tease me about > calling plants by their botanical names. > I am a novice and really really appreciate all of the information so many of > you put into the PBS > Thanks, Carolyn Craft > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Sun Nov 30 15:10:00 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031130120436.00d4c760@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Ipheion 'Rolf Fiedler' Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 12:08:11 -0800 Dear Lee, Did you get a private response from anyone about your question below to the group. I am reposting it since it was written under an Oxalis subject heading and may have gotten lost. I know a lot of us would like the answer to this question. Mary Sue At 07:20 PM 11/18/03 -0800, you wrote: >Speaking of uncertainties and bones of contention with regard to species >names and synonyms, I was scanning through Dirk's latest list of bulb >offerings and happened upon this: > >"Ipheion pelegrinans (syn. Tristagma pelegrinans) Known as I. 'Rolf >Fiedler' in the trade before it's true identity was established. Beautiful >starry cobalt blue flowers in Winter to Spring. Increases by stolons.".... >My question is: When did it get settled? And when and who established its >true identity? Not having any Tristagma, nor ever having seen a live >plant, I didn't realize that they were similar enough to Ipheions that >there would be a synonymous name for it. > >Finally, does this mean that it is merely a true species and therefore we >no longer need to nor should refer to it as 'Rolf Fiedler' as Dirk now >does in his catalog? From msittner@mcn.org Sun Nov 30 15:12:28 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031130120842.00ddd930@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Triteleia picture Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 12:10:40 -0800 Hi, Would the person who uploaded a Triteleia picture to the wiki recently please contact me. Thanks. Mary Sue From jan@boltha.nl Sun Nov 30 16:01:33 2003 Message-Id: From: Jan v/d Berg Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 10, Issue 37 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:00:39 +0100 Triteleia, Brodiaea and Dichelostemma. I have a nice Tritleia, I think it is a laxa variety, it is called Triteleia Rudy? What do you think about it?? see http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Triteleia_Rudykleiner.jpg Jan van den Berg From voltaire@islandnet.com Sun Nov 30 22:19:42 2003 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: TOW N.H.Do in Dec - Garden Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 19:19:39 -0800 Almost everywhere: Search out those bulbs you bought and plant them! Remove big dead leaves, like hostas, from winter-flowering small bulb areas. Northern California (and southern Europe?) - Set out flowering florist's cyclamen in a semi-shady spot sheltered from heavy rain. Southern California, low desert through to Texas (and Mediterranean?) - Plant bulbs of anemone, freesia, gladiolus, narcissus, ranunculus and prechilled crocus, hyacinths and tulips. There is still time for 6 weeks of prechilling tulips in the fridge - they can be planted in January. Mountains and high desert - mulch bulb beds when the ground is not frozen. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From jonivy@earthlink.net Sun Nov 30 23:10:36 2003 Message-Id: From: John MacGregor Subject: Ipheion 'Rolf Fiedler' Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:10:36 -0800 on 11/30/03 12:08 PM, Mary Sue Ittner at msittner@mcn.org wrote: > Dear Lee, > Did you get a private response from anyone about your question below to the > group. I am reposting it since it was written under an Oxalis subject > heading and may have gotten lost. I know a lot of us would like the answer > to this question. At 07:20 PM 11/18/03 -0800, you wrote: >> "Ipheion pelegrinans (syn. Tristagma pelegrinans) Known as I. 'Rolf >> Fiedler' in the trade before it's true identity was established. Beautiful >> starry cobalt blue flowers in Winter to Spring. Increases by stolons.".... >> My question is: When did it get settled? And when and who established its >> true identity? Not having any Tristagma, nor ever having seen a live >> plant, I didn't realize that they were similar enough to Ipheions that >> there would be a synonymous name for it. First, it is Tristagma peregrinans (Latin: wandering). Original descriptions of the genera: Ipheion Raf. Flora Telluriana 2 (Jan.-Mar. 1837) 12. Tristagma Poepp. Family - LILIACEAE - Lily Family Published in: Fragmentum Synopseos Plantarum Phanerogamum 8. 1833. {Fragm. Syn. Pl. } Web illustrations of T. peregrinans (the first is misspelled): http://www.bulbsociety.com/GALLERY_OF_THE_WORLDS_BULBS/GRAPHICS/Tristagma/Tr istagma_peregrinana/Tristagma_peregrinana.html http://www.rareplants.co.uk/tristagm/ In 1963, Hamilton P. Traub, editor of Plant Life, wrote: "Poeppig (1833) proposed the genus Tristagma, with T. nivale (T. nivale Poepp. ex Endl. 1835) as the type. This generic name has priority over Ipheion Rafinesque (1837) with a type (I. uniflorum) [Lindl.] Raf.) which has to be transferred to Tristagma on phylogenetic grounds." See: Liliaceae Tristagma uniflorum (Lindl.) Traub in Plant Life, xix. 61 (1963). This means that there is no more Ipheion. All the correctly "recognized" species in this genus are now Tristagma. Unfortunately, there often is a long lag between the time that botanists publish a name change and nursery catalogs and popular references pick it up. The original description of T. peregrinans was published: Liliaceae Tristagma peregrinans P.Ravenna in Pl. Life, 34: 131 (1978). Collected in Uruguay >> Finally, does this mean that it is merely a true species and therefore we >> no longer need to nor should refer to it as 'Rolf Fiedler' as Dirk now >> does in his catalog? If it is propagated vegetatively, so that each bulb is genetically identical, it is perfectly acceptable to give a cultivar name denoting a single clone. Tristagma peregrinans 'Rolf Fiedler' is a valid name for this clear blue selection. Other colors or flower forms of this same species may be assigned other cultivar names when they are vegetatively propagated. John MacGregor South Pasadena, CA 91030 USDA zone 9 Sunset zones 21/23 From samclan@redshift.com Sun Nov 30 23:16:43 2003 Message-Id: <3FCAC0CC.3000607@redshift.com> From: Shirley Meneice Subject: Ipheion 'Rolf Fiedler' Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:17:16 -0800 great questions. I'll be intrigued to see if you get any answers. i. Rolf Fiedler is a wonderful addition to the edges of my garden, no matter what it's name really is. Shirley Meneice, USDA Zone 9-10. 200' above sea level, Pebble Beach, CA Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Dear Lee, > > Did you get a private response from anyone about your question below to > the group. I am reposting it since it was written under an Oxalis > subject heading and may have gotten lost. I know a lot of us would like > the answer to this question. > > Mary Sue > > At 07:20 PM 11/18/03 -0800, you wrote: > >> Speaking of uncertainties and bones of contention with regard to >> species names and synonyms, I was scanning through Dirk's latest list >> of bulb offerings and happened upon this: >> >> "Ipheion pelegrinans (syn. Tristagma pelegrinans) Known as I. 'Rolf >> Fiedler' in the trade before it's true identity was established. >> Beautiful starry cobalt blue flowers in Winter to Spring. Increases by >> stolons.".... >> My question is: When did it get settled? And when and who established >> its true identity? Not having any Tristagma, nor ever having seen a >> live plant, I didn't realize that they were similar enough to Ipheions >> that there would be a synonymous name for it. >> >> Finally, does this mean that it is merely a true species and therefore >> we no longer need to nor should refer to it as 'Rolf Fiedler' as Dirk >> now does in his catalog? > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > . >