From goblin@itikzn.co.za Fri Oct 10 08:54:53 2003 Message-Id: <000201c389b7$0d0ecc80$7066fea9@v7m1f0> From: "Greg Pettit" Subject: Landscaping with Bulbs--Natal/South Africa Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:33:00 +0200 Greetings, When I lived in Queensburgh/Durban last year I had set all of my bigger Crinum up into beds. I did my best to emulate where they had come from. About 200-300 Crinum macowanii were in a bed on a bank adjacent to my storm water drain. They were flooded every time it rained. They lived in full sun and most gave me at least 3 stalks per bulb. Some even produced 5 stems (almost at the same time). They were the first to flower (now, in mid spring) Down in the forest I had about 500 Crinum moorei. They were between two annual streams and tended to flower in mid summer. By keeping them more than 5 metres into thick bush, I managed to keep the Amaryllis caterpillar at bay. To do the same in open spaces I need to plant Tagates (Marigold). Between the two beds I had set up an area for my Crinum acaule and delagoense/forbesii. I dug out a bed of about 4 metres by 2 metres and about 500mm deep. I back-filled with fine beach sand and sunk the pre-mentioned two species into the beds. They flowered in December (mid summer). Another large bed was home to about 2000 Eucomis hybrids. These were also in full sun. In the forest I had beds/clumps of the lesser value bulbs. On a bank that was home to a spring, I had all my species Kniphofia and below that was a few thousand Zantedeschia ethiopica. Further in the forest was huge clumps of Dietes grandiflora and iridioides. When I moved here to the farm (near Pietermaritzburg) I brought a few truck loads of bulbs up with me and just planted them anywhere to keep them going. I am slowly separating them and planting them into beds. The only plants not happy with the move has been the Crinum procerum (Hawaii), Crinum asiaticum and Musa merelii (ex Kenya, I think that is the name of my red edible bananas?). All three are unhappy with the cold winters. In Durban we dropped to a minimum of 8C at night whereas here we drop to 0C and even had 2 evenings of light frost. Regards Greg From angelopalm69@inwind.it Wed Oct 1 08:21:08 2003 Message-Id: <000d01c38816$30c85800$75af623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: about Brunsvigia grandiflora Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:18:23 +0200 Dear group, as I know many of you have got seeds of Brunsvigia grandiflora, germinating now, an old question come up again in my mind. This species is summer growing, if I don't wrong, so the question is how to look after these seeds? They need to be sown immediately as they can't be stored till next spring, but in the Northen hemisphere we are going to the winter season. This means the seedlings have to grow in winter; a nonsense then? waiting to hear your comments Angelo Porcelli Italy From jamievande@freenet.de Wed Oct 1 09:07:15 2003 Message-Id: <001d01c3881c$d241df20$6402a8c0@celeron> From: "Jamie" Subject: about Brunsvigia grandiflora Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:06:17 +0200 Angelo, I, too, received some of the Brunsvigia seeds and plan to keep them growing through the Winter. Other Amaryllids are commercially grown with an extended season, so I think it would be worth a try. Perhaps not all seedlings would adapt, but those that do would be better plants for gardeners in any case. I have a few other Brunsvigia seedlings and plan to try and keep them in growth under lights through the winter months. If they go dormant, they go dormant. Frankly, with the purported maturity of Brunsvigia at 15 years! I wish to shorten the cycle where one can. Most plants are opportunistic and will adpat where possible. The trick is to recognise this trait and take advantage of it, much as the Dutch growers do with Hippeastrum. Time will tell if the hemisphere change has a dominating influence. We all need to report back on this. Ciao, Bello, Jamie V. Cologne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angelo Porcelli" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 2:18 PM Subject: [pbs] about Brunsvigia grandiflora Dear group, as I know many of you have got seeds of Brunsvigia grandiflora, germinating now, an old question come up again in my mind. This species is summer growing, if I don't wrong, so the question is how to look after these seeds? They need to be sown immediately as they can't be stored till next spring, but in the Northen hemisphere we are going to the winter season. This means the seedlings have to grow in winter; a nonsense then? waiting to hear your comments Angelo Porcelli Italy _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From roberth6@mac.com Wed Oct 1 09:14:15 2003 Message-Id: From: Robert Hamilton Subject: about Brunsvigia grandiflora Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:12:14 +1000 Hi Angelo, On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 10:18 PM, Angelo Porcelli wrote: > as I know many of you have got seeds of Brunsvigia grandiflora, > germinating now, an old question come up again in my mind. This > species is summer growing, if I don't wrong, so the question is how to > look after these seeds? They need to be sown immediately as they can't > be stored till next spring, but in the Northen hemisphere we are going > to the winter season. This means the seedlings have to grow in winter; > a nonsense then? I sowed Brnsvigia grandiflora seeds in May 2002 - (our autumn) and they remained in leaf through their second winter here, without any protection from the elements. Cheers, Rob in Tasmania From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Oct 1 10:14:05 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: IBSA Symposium 2003/Vist to South Africa TOW Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:09:36 -0500 Dear Mary Sue; Was there any mention of the 'new' species of Clivia , C. mirabilis? Is this in cultivation yet and are seed or plants available yet? Been no mention of this since it was described a year or two ago. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Oct 1 10:14:07 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Biarum tenuifolius Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:13:17 -0500 Dear all; Just to add 2 cents (late) my plants came up and bloomed about the same time as Angelo's in Italy. Our exceedingly dry hot summer must have been for them. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From msittner@mcn.org Wed Oct 1 10:50:37 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031001072326.00e089b0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Clivia mirabilis Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 07:27:48 -0700 Dear Jim, I know my posts are so long that I imagine a lot of people give up before they read the whole thing, but in my first post I mentioned that there was a talk just on this Clivia. Here is what I said: "After her talk, John Rourke told the story of the amazing find of Clivia mirabilis in the Western Cape. It was found in screes and cliffs below a rock plateau near Nieuwoudtville in a semi-desert area in an area with only 400 mm of rainfall, relentless sun. It has leathery leaves and curved pendulous orange flowers with green tips, red pedicels, and red ovaries. It takes up almost every drop of water during the wet season and is almost like a succulent. He speculated the pollinators were attracted to the red pedicels and ovaries. These Clivias offer hope for breeding Clivias that can be grown in the sun. The seeds ripen very rapidly. I was pleased to hear that the plants are protected in a reserve, but there has been an attempt to get seed to growers so plant collectors will be less tempted to dig them from the wild. (The plant habitat makes this a bit difficult however.) And the seed is growing so perhaps one day this newly discovered genus will be better known." Mary Sue From TGlavich@aol.com Wed Oct 1 10:42:09 2003 Message-Id: <20A5210E.3C278417.007B69A6@aol.com> From: TGlavich@aol.com Subject: about Brunsvigia grandiflora Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 10:41:41 -0400 Angello and others, Germination of these were fairly far along, so I potted mine up as well. I'll keep them warm and growing all winter. A bit of light fertilization helps force the growth to continue. If the germination was just beginning, or not started I have had pretty good (not perfect)success. but keeping the seeds in a paper bag in a refrigerator for up to six months. You can then get early growth at the right time of year. I have lost a few to rot, and anything in a plastic bag almost always rots. Tom From msittner@mcn.org Wed Oct 1 10:50:37 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031001072837.00e01c40@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: about Brunsvigia grandiflora Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 07:46:44 -0700 Hi, Many of us who grow Amaryllids seeds from the opposite hemisphere find we can keep these growing on for the first year at least and later get them to adjust to the proper dormancy. This has been my experience with all the Brunsvigia seeds I have tried. You will need to protect them from the cold however. What I find very strange is that one year I got seed of Brunsvigia grandiflora from the Huntington Gardens. (Seed Michael Vassar donated to the BX). It arrived in February and I had green leaves by March. I kept it growing as long as I could and it has become a summer dormant Brunsvigia for me. I tried to keep watering it this summer but it still went dormant. I assumed Michael would have known the correct species but perhaps not. Either it is really a winter growing Brunsvigia species and was misidentified or I have reversed the only Brunsvigia species I have grown from seed from my hemisphere! This reminds me that the recent suggestion from Paul Tyerman to Doug Westfall about adding pictures of Doug's Haemanthus leaves to the wiki is a great idea. I'd like to see pictures of leaves of all the Amaryllid leaves. You don't always find pictures of both leaves and flowers in the books since they often don't both occur together. We saw a lot of Amaryllid species in the wild in South Africa and I wanted to know what they were. Looking at my field guides was often of little help since there weren't pictures and not always descriptions either. So Rob Hamilton and Bill Dijk if you are reading this how about adding some Brunsvigia leaves to the wiki? Thanks. Mary Sue From audrey@cain.net Wed Oct 1 12:13:02 2003 Message-Id: <000001c38836$de750b90$b4824ed5@maggy> From: "Audrey Cain" Subject: IBSA Symposium 2003/Visit to South Africa Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:12:46 +0100 Dear All I have been reading Mary Sue's enthusiastic and detailed accounts of the Symposium and beyond with huge pleasure! I really don't feel I can add much, since I took no notes but just thoroughly enjoyed the whole experience. The exchange of useful information about growing these plants, and the general easy going atmosphere during the whole week made it a very worth while trip, hopefully to be repeated. Audrey -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: 01 October 2003 15:52 To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 9, Issue 1 Send pbs mailing list submissions to pbs@lists.ibiblio.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org You can reach the person managing the list at pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Crinum graminicola seeds (J.E. Shields) 2. Re: pbs Digest, Vol 8, Issue 35 (David Victor) 3. Oxalis, Wiki, and Pelargonium (Mary Sue Ittner) 4. Re: IBSA Symposium 2003/Vist to South Africa TOW (Mary Sue Ittner) 5. Ledbouria socialis (Mary Sue Ittner) 6. about Brunsvigia grandiflora (Angelo Porcelli) 7. Re: about Brunsvigia grandiflora (Jamie) 8. Re: about Brunsvigia grandiflora (Robert Hamilton) 9. Re: IBSA Symposium 2003/Vist to South Africa TOW (James Waddick) 10. Re: Biarum tenuifolius (James Waddick) 11. Re: about Brunsvigia grandiflora (TGlavich@aol.com) 12. Clivia mirabilis (Mary Sue Ittner) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:22:49 -0500 From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: [pbs] Crinum graminicola seeds To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030930131233.026e8910@mail.insightbb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I have a few seeds of Crinum graminicola available for sale. Contact me privately or see my web page at http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Seeds/CrinumSeeds.html if you are interested. Hand-pollinated in the greenhouse; the parental plants came from Greg Pettit in South Africa. I assume that Crinum graminicola is tender in cold climates. Jim Shields in central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:15:32 +0100 From: David Victor Subject: [pbs] Re: pbs Digest, Vol 8, Issue 35 To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030930181529.00bc4660@app4.mailblocks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi there, Firstly, a few words of introduction as I'm new to the list. As Mary Sue, I am also a member of IBSA and attended the recent conference in South Africa. I'm a keen grower of South African bulbs, living in England, where most of them are grown under cold glass. My main interests in this area are Oxalis, Amaryllids (particularly Nerine), Ferraria and the strange tuberous species of Pelargonium found in Section Hoarea of that genus. I've been reading Mary Sue's pieces on the conference and thought that I might add a few notes. Firstly, on Oxalis. The last major taxonomic work on the South African part of the genus was carried out by retired Paymaster-Captain Salter of the Royal Navy, who lived for many years in Cape Town, his hobby being to work on Oxalis. In 1944 he published his major work "The Genus Oxalis in South Africa - A Taxonomic Revision". This was published by The Cape Times under the Authority of the trustees of the National Botanic Gardens of south Africa, Kirstenbosch. In the book he points out that his field work has been limited to the South West of that country and that he has had to rely on herbarium samples for the rest of the country. However, as most of the species occur in the area studied, he does not feel that it too difficult an issue. He also points out that studying live material is particularly important as crucial elements of the analysis depend on floral structures and root-systems, which are not normally available in herbarium samples. He adds that "It is, perhaps, not generally realised that only a proportion of the existing forms are yet known. The genus is one of the most prolific in South Africa, both in quantity and variety, and all collectors of Oxalis, including myself, have only explored a small fraction of the huge and often somewhat inaccessible areas in which this genus abounds, areas in which, during the main Oxalis season (mid-winter) there is little else to attract a botanist." In his revision, he divides the genus into eleven Sections, consisting of some 202 species. As Mary Sue says, there is a South African botanist currently working on a revision of the genus. She is Dr Leanne Dreyer, who I was lucky enough to meet a few years ago. I believe that, at the time, she was working on her Ph. D. thesis, which was based on her re-examination of Salter's work by means of pollen morphology. She was brought to see my collection by Prof. Charlie Stirton, at that time Director of Research at RBG Kew. Before he left South Africa he had considered carrying out a revision of the genus and, to this end, had collected a great deal of material. Sadly, when he left, he had to leave the collection behind at Stellenbosch. Of course, its worth adding that a major part of the genus is in the Americas. There various parts are given within individual countries local flora, where they exist. There was talk at one time that Prof. Alicia Lourteig was intending to produce a revision of the genus overall. However, I believe that is no longer the case. A colleague of mine, Richard Clifton, has produced an overall species checklist of all of the species that he has been able to "identify" i.e. trace, as part of his series of checklists on the family Geraniaceae (yes it was located there at one time!). At this level, the system soon seems to fall into chaos. Few botanists have tried to pull together an overall picture of Oxalis and those that did, all did so a long time ago. Knuth (the top man on Geraniaceae historically, as part of Das Planzenreich, 1897/1930) reckoned 7 genera in the family Oxalidaceae and this was agreed by Lawrence (1969). However Hutchinson reckoned 3 genera and the RHS says 6. If you add on the other odds and ends that are floating around there may be 8 or 9. If we can't even agree on the genera in the family, its difficult to believe we can agree on anything else! In any event, there are several hundred species shown in the book, although I don't have the patience to go through it to add up just how many! To pick up on one of Mary Sue's other points, dormancy in Oxalis. Most of my South African species are just coming into leaf and flower now. Indeed, the first species came into flower on 10th September, a few days after I returned from South Africa. It was brought into growth by watering on the day of my return. The rest are following quickly. Virtually all of them will have flowered by Christmas time and will be returning to dormancy early in the new year. So, most of them will be dormant for six months or so. Finally, a question. Has the list ever thought of having Pelargonium Section Hoarea included on the wiki? ( and by the way, what on earth does wiki stand for?). They are great geophytes! Best regards, David Victor ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:27:17 -0700 From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: [pbs] Oxalis, Wiki, and Pelargonium To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <4.2.2.20030930140759.00e086d0@mail.mcn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dear David, Welcome to our list and thank you so much for your wonderful addition about Oxalis. It is indeed a very complicated subject, but I am sure all of those who are interested in Oxalis have learned a lot from what you have written. Mark McDonough who helps me with the wiki (which is a Hawaiian word meaning quick quick) had a discussion about whether we should create wiki pages for genera that had a few geophytes, but were mainly not geophytic. He thought people could be confused by including them and was inclined to say no. He used Pelargonium as an example. However it was too late as I had already put a picture of Pelargonium incrassatum on the wiki since I was thrilled when mine bloomed. My husband suggested a compromise that was simple but worked for both of us and I changed the wiki page name to Geophytic Pelargoniums. This page could include other sections besides Section Hoarea if they are also geophytes, but definitely is the place to put pictures of those plants. I very much hope you will add your pictures of the geophytic Pelargoniums you grow to that wiki page. And just for all the new members of our list since there are quite a few of you the wiki is like a pbs list web site and any member of this list is welcome to add pictures of the geophytes they grow or have seen in the wild to the wiki. We are not limited to the genera that are listed. New wiki pages can be created if you have something you want to add that is not represented. I have written a lot of instructions about how to do it and am always willing to help new users figure out how to participate. Mary Sue ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:35:28 -0700 From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Re: [pbs] IBSA Symposium 2003/Vist to South Africa TOW To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <4.2.2.20030929204301.00d953c0@mail.mcn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dear All, This year the South African winter rain fall area has been very dry. Right before the IBSA Symposium they had rain and snow and while we were there they continued to have a little rain and have had some since we returned. But in Namaqualand, the West Coast, and some of the areas where my husband and I saw flowers in abundance on our last trip there were few flowers this year. Reports were that bulbs in the areas with so little rainfall just sat the year out. We always worry when our bulbs do that so it is good to remember that it happens in the wild. This made it very difficult for the organizers of the Symposium who had planned to take us to see flowers in areas close to where we were staying as they just weren't blooming at the right time. I understand some have bloomed since. So they had to scramble to find places to take us. Two large buses were rented and the first day we traveled to Swellendam to a farm where we had permission to look for flowers. We spent a lot more time on the bus than anticipated but both days I was lucky to have interesting travel companions. The views out the window in spite of the drought looked very beautiful. There was snow on the mountains and there were swatches of color: green, yellow from farm lands. South Africa is a very beautiful country I think. The sun was out and once we arrived and started walking it felt warmer outside than it had in the previous two days. We got very excited as we found our first bulbs. One of the first was Laperiousa pyramidalis. We saw this one over and over again while we were there. We also saw Gladiolus carinatus, Moraea miniata and tripetala, Oxalis obtusa, Oxalis purpurea, a succulent Oxalis with purple flowers, a couple Romuleas, some nice orchids, a white Geissorhiza, etc. Rhoda McMaster helped my understand the difference between Geissorhiza and Hesperantha. In Hesperantha the style divides at the base of the flower or below and in Geissorhiza the style extends upward and divides higher up. After she clarified this we could at least say we were seeing Geissoriza sp. or Hesperantha sp. for all those white ones that sometimes had pink or brown markings on the back. I have in my notes we saw Moraea fergusoniae and Gladiolus permeabilis. Since those aren't species that I knew before it will be interesting to look at our pictures and see how well they fit with the descriptions. There was enough room for people to fan out and explore on their own. Some of the people I never saw once we got off the bus as they moved more quickly. A new friend I made from South Africa who doesn't grow bulbs was fascinated by the conversations about what we were seeing (since there wasn't always agreement.) People pointed out special finds. Some of the best flowers got photographed by a line of people, often lying in strange positions to get the best shot. I was pleased when Pat Victor went out of her way to back track to find me to show me a natural Oxalis "rock garden" overlooking the river. Those people who went the farthest came back exclaiming over a Gladiolus tristis they saw leaning over the cliff near the river. The following day we went to Hermanus. This was another long trip on the bus. Hermanus has whales and they were present. It also has the Fernkloof Nature Reserve and after we looked at ferns we drove there. Fernkloof has fynbos vegetation so we saw Proteas, Ericas, and Restios. We didn't see a lot of bulbs here, but did find one Gladiolus hirsutus that everyone photographed and a couple of other things. We had lovely walks through the preserve after lunch. On the way back to the Spa we stopped a number of times along the road when someone spotted flowers blooming and I think everyone appreciated that opportunity and while the bus drivers waited we jumped out of the bus to see what we could find. Both buses didn't stop at the same places so we saw different things. We found a field of Gladiolus abbreviatus. Since we weren't expecting a lot even this plant which I'd say is one of those kindly called, "collector's items" was exciting. Their were some pretty Romuleas and a Babiana that most people thought was purpurea. And of course there were Oxalis including some that had wonderful large leaves that reminded me of strawberries and were not blooming. And we saw our first Watsonias about the time I ran out of film. The light was really low by then I reassured myself and I probably wouldn't have gotten much of a picture. Luckily I saw Watsonias in bloom many times after that. The final day we went to the Worcester Botanical Garden. This wasn't such a long trip. A lot of people were leaving at noon so they decided rather than to rent buses to just pile into private cars. This is a dry area and the garden has a lot of succulents. We were lucky to be allowed to view the private bulb and succulent collections. There were a lot of Oxalis pots that attracted my attention. As I looked at them closely there were many different leaves in the same pot and I began to understand that we may be lucky ours don't reseed. I think sorting out all these pots (as there were a lot of them) would be quite a job. We were told they planned to plant many of them out in the garden. Since some of us have discovered except for the weedy ones Oxalis planted out in our gardens haven't done well, it will be interesting to hear how these do. There were other series of plastic pots, but the majority of the bulbs were planted in large concrete deep planters where the bulbs have a deep root run and where soil temperatures are very constant. The concrete is divided into sections with different species in each and they are numbered. I'm not sure I am explaining this very well so I posted two pictures to the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Karoo_bulb_containers.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Karoo_bulb_containers2.jpg The man who is in charge and who was talking to us said that the bulbs were really responding well to this new planting and were growing much better than in pots. This was especially true of the Amaryllids. You can see some nice leaves in the second picture. What they are finding however is that some of them are increasing so rapidly they need dividing. It didn't seem to me that with this design it would be especially easy to divide them or transplant them once planted. He thought ultimately they would be able to grow bulbs better there than at Kirstenbosch. They don't have so much rain so could control the moisture I'd expect. A lot of the South African delegates purchased plants here. They looked through the containers that were for sale and often found bonuses that they valued more than the plant they were purchasing in the same pot. My husband who loves to take pictures of signs found a picture of a Lachenalia that was for sale marked Cape Cows Lips. The Symposium ended after lunch. My husband and I, Patty Colville, and Lauw de Jager spent the afternoon exploring on our own with suggestions about where to go. We explored an area that had been burned first (always a good choice) and found more Moraeas, Albucas, more of that same Lapeirousia, and Lachenalia orchiodes (which we also saw repeatedly). We got our first practice climbing between the barb wired fences and trying to step carefully so we didn't end up with black streaks on our pants. We saw Moraea gawleri here which Bob and I saw often in shades of orange and yellow. At Tulbagh we found some beautiful red Babiana villosa near a cemetery. We found some pretty Romuleas and Lauw removed his shoes to wade in the water to get a better photo of Spiloxene aquatic. As we returned we found a small section of land where the roads crossed that we had been told about but missed on the way that had Lachenalias and Oxalis in bloom. The whole patch was solid flowers. This might have been Lachenalia longibracteata. The International delegates had become quite friendly and a number of us weren't quite ready to say goodbye so thirteen of us arranged to meet one more time for dinner in Worcester. For me the Symposium was a great success. I learned a lot, saw some interesting plants, but most of all I appreciated talking to fellow bulb enthusiasts. Thursday night was scheduled to be the farewell dinner and the local delegates were encouraged to attend and many of them did. At the dinner the noise level was very high. If you looked around the room you saw a lot of happy people very engaged in conversation. IBSA is considering sponsoring another Symposium in 2-4 years and I highly recommend this to anyone who is interested in South African bulbs. I'll continue to share throughout the week about our trip to South Africa and some of the talks, but won't some of the rest of you who are on this list who attended please say something! Shelley, Patty, Stefan, Audrey, Rhoda, Allan, Alan, Nico, Malcolm, Chris, Jim, Dawie please. Rachel is out seed collecting and Lauw has already written. Won't a few of you at least help me out here. Mary Sue ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:51:27 -0700 From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: [pbs] Ledbouria socialis To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <4.2.2.20030930172847.00d3e350@mail.mcn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dear All, Fred asked about where Ledbouria socialis was found and no one was able to help him so when I was in South Africa I tried to see if I could come up with an answer. Rod Saunders directed me to a book on Ledbouria and this is what it said. Ledbouria socialis is endemic to the Cape Province. Most of the known localities are in the Eastern Cape. It is found in fine to medium grained shallow to deep well drained humus rich sandy soil. (Now that's a mouthful.) It usually grows in shade mostly in closed evergreen woodland. A few populations occur in evergreen scrub forest. Most of the localities are in the veld type known as Valley Bushveld. Cameron McMaster described the habitat as dry valley bush veld. He said most of the ones he had seen were found around Grahamstown and Williamstown. He also mentioned the Keiskamma River Valley where the road to Port Alfred crosses the river. I haven't checked any maps for the spelling on these names so maybe if you have a map Fred you can look them up. I hope that this information is helpful. I think I have the book on veld types and could copy the section on Type 23 if this isn't enough. Mary Sue ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:18:23 +0200 From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: [pbs] about Brunsvigia grandiflora To: Message-ID: <000d01c38816$30c85800$75af623e@f1q3z7> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear group, as I know many of you have got seeds of Brunsvigia grandiflora, germinating now, an old question come up again in my mind. This species is summer growing, if I don't wrong, so the question is how to look after these seeds? They need to be sown immediately as they can't be stored till next spring, but in the Northen hemisphere we are going to the winter season. This means the seedlings have to grow in winter; a nonsense then? waiting to hear your comments Angelo Porcelli Italy ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:06:17 +0200 From: "Jamie" Subject: Re: [pbs] about Brunsvigia grandiflora To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Message-ID: <001d01c3881c$d241df20$6402a8c0@celeron> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Angelo, I, too, received some of the Brunsvigia seeds and plan to keep them growing through the Winter. Other Amaryllids are commercially grown with an extended season, so I think it would be worth a try. Perhaps not all seedlings would adapt, but those that do would be better plants for gardeners in any case. I have a few other Brunsvigia seedlings and plan to try and keep them in growth under lights through the winter months. If they go dormant, they go dormant. Frankly, with the purported maturity of Brunsvigia at 15 years! I wish to shorten the cycle where one can. Most plants are opportunistic and will adpat where possible. The trick is to recognise this trait and take advantage of it, much as the Dutch growers do with Hippeastrum. Time will tell if the hemisphere change has a dominating influence. We all need to report back on this. Ciao, Bello, Jamie V. Cologne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angelo Porcelli" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 2:18 PM Subject: [pbs] about Brunsvigia grandiflora Dear group, as I know many of you have got seeds of Brunsvigia grandiflora, germinating now, an old question come up again in my mind. This species is summer growing, if I don't wrong, so the question is how to look after these seeds? They need to be sown immediately as they can't be stored till next spring, but in the Northen hemisphere we are going to the winter season. This means the seedlings have to grow in winter; a nonsense then? waiting to hear your comments Angelo Porcelli Italy _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:12:14 +1000 From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Re: [pbs] about Brunsvigia grandiflora To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi Angelo, On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 10:18 PM, Angelo Porcelli wrote: > as I know many of you have got seeds of Brunsvigia grandiflora, > germinating now, an old question come up again in my mind. This > species is summer growing, if I don't wrong, so the question is how to > look after these seeds? They need to be sown immediately as they can't > be stored till next spring, but in the Northen hemisphere we are going > to the winter season. This means the seedlings have to grow in winter; > a nonsense then? I sowed Brnsvigia grandiflora seeds in May 2002 - (our autumn) and they remained in leaf through their second winter here, without any protection from the elements. Cheers, Rob in Tasmania ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:09:36 -0500 From: James Waddick Subject: Re: [pbs] IBSA Symposium 2003/Vist to South Africa TOW To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Dear Mary Sue; Was there any mention of the 'new' species of Clivia , C. mirabilis? Is this in cultivation yet and are seed or plants available yet? Been no mention of this since it was described a year or two ago. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:13:17 -0500 From: James Waddick Subject: Re: [pbs] Biarum tenuifolius To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Dear all; Just to add 2 cents (late) my plants came up and bloomed about the same time as Angelo's in Italy. Our exceedingly dry hot summer must have been for them. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 10:41:41 -0400 From: TGlavich@aol.com Subject: Re: [pbs] about Brunsvigia grandiflora To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org (Pacific Bulb Society) Message-ID: <20A5210E.3C278417.007B69A6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Angello and others, Germination of these were fairly far along, so I potted mine up as well. I'll keep them warm and growing all winter. A bit of light fertilization helps force the growth to continue. If the germination was just beginning, or not started I have had pretty good (not perfect)success. but keeping the seeds in a paper bag in a refrigerator for up to six months. You can then get early growth at the right time of year. I have lost a few to rot, and anything in a plastic bag almost always rots. Tom ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 07:27:48 -0700 From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: [pbs] Clivia mirabilis To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <4.2.2.20031001072326.00e089b0@mail.mcn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dear Jim, I know my posts are so long that I imagine a lot of people give up before they read the whole thing, but in my first post I mentioned that there was a talk just on this Clivia. Here is what I said: "After her talk, John Rourke told the story of the amazing find of Clivia mirabilis in the Western Cape. It was found in screes and cliffs below a rock plateau near Nieuwoudtville in a semi-desert area in an area with only 400 mm of rainfall, relentless sun. It has leathery leaves and curved pendulous orange flowers with green tips, red pedicels, and red ovaries. It takes up almost every drop of water during the wet season and is almost like a succulent. He speculated the pollinators were attracted to the red pedicels and ovaries. These Clivias offer hope for breeding Clivias that can be grown in the sun. The seeds ripen very rapidly. I was pleased to hear that the plants are protected in a reserve, but there has been an attempt to get seed to growers so plant collectors will be less tempted to dig them from the wild. (The plant habitat makes this a bit difficult however.) And the seed is growing so perhaps one day this newly discovered genus will be better known." Mary Sue ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php End of pbs Digest, Vol 9, Issue 1 ********************************* From dejager@bulbargence.com Wed Oct 1 13:30:38 2003 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: IBSA Symposium 2003/Vist to South Africa TOW Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 19:25:55 +0200 Dear All Now having read MarySue report I wouldliketo add a few of y imprssions durin the field trips msittner@mcn.org a écrit : Two large buses were rented and the first day we traveled to Swellendam to a farm where we had permission to look for flowers. We got very excited as we > found our first bulbs. It was a fantastic landscape in the Overland area along the Breede Rivier. We were just 'let loose' in this large area which was grazed quite regularly. On one side the ridge was bordered by a barley field and sloping toward the east to the river. Most bulbs were found on the top part of the flat ridge,(Moraea, Brunsvigia, Geissorhiza, Hesperantha, Laperousias). Going down towards the river we found more Ixias and Watsonias and Oxalis. The 4 hours spent there passed far too quickly. > > The following day we went to Hermanus. This was another long trip on the > bus. Hermanus has whales and they were present. It also has the Fernkloof > Nature Reserve and after we looked at ferns we drove there. Fernkloof has > fynbos vegetation so we saw Proteas, Ericas, and Restios. We didn't see a > lot of bulbs here, but did find one Gladiolus hirsutus that everyone > photographed and a couple of other things. Don'tforget the great stand of Aristeas major? and Romulaes. Our bus was led by Burger van Eeden, who had a detailed knowledge where to find bulbs. Like many other South africans we met, they have a great ability to spot bulbs from moving cars or buses. Apart from several side of the road stops to see Gladiolus, Babiana and Lachenalias, he took us to a 'Koppie' where there whas great stand of Nerine sarniense. Indeed amongst the basalt blocks on the north face of the granite outcrop masses of leaves of the autumn flowering bulb. On the way back to the bus I was struck by the numerous geissorhiza and Romulea simply growing in the middleof the path!. > The final day we went to the Worcester Botanical Garden. > There were other series of plastic pots, but the majority of the bulbs were > planted in large concrete deep planters where the bulbs have a deep root > run and where soil temperatures are very constant. The concrete is divided > into sections with different species in each and they are numbered. These pure sand plunge beds also intrigued me a lot. I think the succes is partly due to the cooler temperatures around the roots (compared to pot cultures). As far I could see it was pure sand, but I don't know how far it goes down what kind of of soil is down below. There were indeed some very nice stands of Babiana, Lachenalia and Ferraria. It reminded me a bit of the bed Dave Fenwick described to us some years ago. In the gardens there were mass plantings of Boophane and Haemanthus bosmanii, Brusnsvigia and lots of Watsonia, and in the shade of the office a very large clump of Cyrtanthus herrei. Very little iridaceae very seen as garden plants. (We will get to this subject when visiting Jim Holmes nursery) (On Bobs picture of the Worcester bulb beds you can see Rachel Saunders who is a frequent forum participator and one of the IBSA symposium organiser) Kind regards Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence From boutin@goldrush.com Wed Oct 1 13:58:17 2003 Message-Id: <005101c38846$9ac02dc0$143d7143@boutin> From: "boutin" Subject: Ledbouria socialis Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:05:30 -0700 Dear Mary Sue, Thanks for the notes on Ledebouria socialis and for taking the time during your trip to ask about localities. The localities and river you mention are on my map of South Africa. So far I have not seen plants or illustrations of L. socialis from the eastern portion of its range (Grahamstown to East London) including the Keiskama river drainage. I wonder if these vary from the plants from the western portion of its range (west and northwest of Port Elizabeth)? What was the book on Ledebouria you mention? Is this a published book? I found definitions for the Valley Bushveld (A23) under the more detailed discussions of Thicket Biome which are on line. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Sue Ittner" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 5:51 PM Subject: [pbs] Ledbouria socialis > Dear All, > > Fred asked about where Ledbouria socialis was found and no one was able to > help him so when I was in South Africa I tried to see if I could come up > with an answer. Rod Saunders directed me to a book on Ledbouria and this is > what it said. > > Ledbouria socialis is endemic to the Cape Province. Most of the known > localities are in the Eastern Cape. It is found in fine to medium grained > shallow to deep well drained humus rich sandy soil. (Now that's a > mouthful.) It usually grows in shade mostly in closed evergreen woodland. A > few populations occur in evergreen scrub forest. Most of the localities are > in the veld type known as Valley Bushveld. > > Cameron McMaster described the habitat as dry valley bush veld. He said > most of the ones he had seen were found around Grahamstown and > Williamstown. He also mentioned the Keiskamma River Valley where the road > to Port Alfred crosses the river. I haven't checked any maps for the > spelling on these names so maybe if you have a map Fred you can look them > up. I hope that this information is helpful. I think I have the book on > veld types and could copy the section on Type 23 if this isn't enough. > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From msittner@mcn.org Wed Oct 1 15:20:52 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031001113553.00e0ba90@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Ledbouria socialis Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 11:43:19 -0700 Dear Fred, If Cameron and Rhoda are having the time to read these posts they can better answer your first question about variations in this plant. As for the book, unless someone from South Africa can answer for me Rod and Rachel are gone for several weeks so can't respond. The book was in their private library. Rod told me he had a resource and then we just never had time to look it up. Finally towards the end of our trip I reminded him and we went to their office and he found the book for me. I just had a short time to sit on the floor and write down the information since we were heading out. I am remiss in not writing down the resource which I certainly should have. I think the book is out of print. So unless someone else responds we'll have to wait to ask until they get back. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Wed Oct 1 15:20:43 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031001114334.00e096a0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: IBSA Symposium 2003/Vist to South Africa TOW--Nerine sarniensis Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:01:05 -0700 Dear All, Thanks to Lauw and Audrey for posting. Maybe some of you from South Africa can tell us how the Symposium seemed from your perspective. I have started writing about the rest of the trip but it is taking me awhile and I don't have time to finish today. I am hoping I can add a few pictures to illustrate a few points and those pictures are not yet on my computer, much less on the wiki. So today I am just going to write two brief messages instead of one long one. The first has to do with Nerine sarniensis which Lauw has mentioned. We were not on the same bus so I didn't see the leaves that he saw. In one of the IBSA bulb chats Alan Horstmann wrote that the consensus of the IBSA members at one of their meetings was that to get Nerine sarniensis to bloom reliably it needs to have a totally dry dormancy. This goes against what many of us have discovered. In fact as we have discussed on this list watering in summer on a regular basis has meant that a lot of people who weren't getting blooms now are. Hamish in his excellent topic of the week introduction on Nerine spoke of needing to keep the perennial roots from drying out. We visited with Mary Stobie, an IBSA member from Greyton. She told us this species grows high in her mountains where there are often mists in summer. Plants are growing in the rocks and probably only get sun for a few hours every day. There seem to be in very little soil, but she speculated the mists and the rocks probably keep the roots cool and prevent the plants from drying out. This would be quite different conditions than a bulb in a plastic pot would get for those of us who live in warm dry climates. She introduced me to a lady who had a large patch in her garden growing under the shade of an oak tree with Veltheimia bracteata. This area gets regular summer water, but no doubt the oak roots absorb a lot of it. Every year in the fall she has quite a show. Her plants are reseeding and increasing so every year it only gets better. I report this only as an example that there are probably multiple ways to grow our bulbs successfully. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Wed Oct 1 15:20:45 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031001120022.00e09560@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: IBSA Symposium 2003/Visit to South Africa TOW--Breaking Ornithogalum dormancy Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:15:56 -0700 Dear All, On this list at least Paul Tyerman and I have bemoaned the fact that some of our Ornithogalum dubiums choose to remain under ground in spite of our efforts. I think Lyn Edwards also reported on this list or the ABA list of having amazing blooms one year only to find the bulb had disappeared the next. So it was with great interest that we had a conversation with Andy who is Rod and Rachel's partner in their tissue culture ventures. Some of you who order seeds from Silverhill may remember a picture in their latest catalog of Ornithogalums they were attempting to grow and hybridize. The picture was really gorgeous guaranteed to make anyone who saw it want these plants! Well this year a lot of them have not come up which they have found very frustrating as they want to sell them and if someone buys a lot of bulbs and they don't come up that person is not going to be happy. Andy told us that they were having the most trouble with their larger bulbs. Does this mean that if a bulb blooms really well it needs a year or more to recover he wonders? Should they only be selling bulbs that are a smaller size? They are experimenting with gibberelic acid to see if this will help. Andy thinks that it is temperature that starts them into growth. Theirs are stored dry and warm and he things that it is cooler temperatures that initiates growth. So he wonders if you could get successive blooms by keeping them warm and then moving one pot at a time to a cooler place. Anyone care to speculate on any of this? I thought Paul would be pleased to know that he and I are not the only two people who have this problem. Mary Sue From dejager@bulbargence.com Wed Oct 1 15:24:40 2003 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: about Brunsvigia grandiflora Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 21:19:53 +0200 Dear Angelo, I got some of the seeds as weel. It was hrarvested by RFor the northern hemisphere it is the ideal time to sow now. Mine are 4 cm high and will grow throughout the winter. This pecies is a winter grower. 1/10/03 15:12, Robert Hamilton à roberth6@mac.com a écrit : On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 10:18 PM, Angelo Porcelli wrote: >> as I know many of you have got seeds of Brunsvigia grandiflora, >> germinating now, an old question come up again in my mind. This >> species is summer growing, if I don't wrong, so the question is how to >> look after these seeds? They need to be sown immediately as they can't >> be stored till next spring, but in the Northen hemisphere we are going >> to the winter season. This means the seedlings have to grow in winter; >> a nonsense then? > > I sowed Brnsvigia grandiflora seeds in May 2002 - (our autumn) and > they remained in leaf through their second winter here, without any > protection from the elements. > Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence From angelopalm69@inwind.it Wed Oct 1 15:31:19 2003 Message-Id: <003101c38852$48eea100$179f623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: about Brunsvigia grandiflora Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 21:28:35 +0200 Dear group, indeed some plants have a strange behaviour for me here. I told already of my Boophone disticha, seedlings of three years, which are now pushing new leaves after a summer dormancy, in spite of my waterings. Hippeastrum aulicum are sending new leaves and the tips of the flower buds are already visible sideway. They will be in bloom at Christmas, as usually. Crinum moorei will be sending out new leaves soon. Also, surely people from southern California, like me here, have their Zantedeschia aethiopica and Freesia alba just waking up now after a summer dormancy. The Zantedeschia flowers from Januray to early June here and later it disapperas. Indeed I was a bit surprise firts time I discovered that for UK people this is a summer growing plant. regards Angelo From dirkwallace@bigpond.com Wed Oct 1 17:03:35 2003 Message-Id: <004601c3885f$c52df560$3dfa8690@bamburyc> From: Dirk Wallace Subject: about Brunsvigia grandiflora Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 06:52:51 +1000 Hi All, Brunsvigia grandiflora grows well in my climate, and although it comes from a summer rainfall area, the bulbs are definitely winter growing and summer dormant. The trick I have found to growing this plant is to never stop watering it! When summer comes here, and the Brunsvigia grandiflora starts to go dormant, I put them with my Rainlilies just to make sure that I don't forget to water them. They never really dry out and usually receive a summer watering every two or three days. The 6 year old bulbs have increased each year under this cultivation. Hope this helps. Kind regards, Dirk From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Wed Oct 1 17:25:48 2003 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: new email address Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:24:41 -0700 Hi all, Please update your records and change my email address to: CathyCraigEA@hotmail.com Thanks! Cathy Craig EA your Essential Advisor From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Wed Oct 1 17:42:56 2003 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: Dinner & Rare Bulb Auction! Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:41:48 -0700 Hi all, I just spoke with Charles Hardman. We were discussing the semi-annual bulbophile dinner that I customarily have around October each year. Charles is cutting back on his work load, with regard to caring for bulbs (repotting, etc.), and wishes to bring what sounds like a truck-load of rare bulbs to the dinner for auction. Half the proceeds to go to PBS. Many you have been to auctions where Charles is the auctioneer and you will remember that he is an excellent one. He is very entertaining, knows how to auction bulbs off in a very expeditious fashion, and likes to see as many people as possible get bulbs. He uses the Dutch Auction (I believe that's right) method which results in very fair prices for all. The dinner is customarily pot luck and unless I can come up with something a little more original, it will probably be a pot luck again. Since he needs a few weeks to prepare for the auction, we shall probably have to have the dinner in November. So, can I see a show of hands please (private emails please to: CathyCraigEA@hotmail.com ) with your preference for date? Primary date CHOICES are: Saturday, November 8 or Saturday, November 15. RARE BULBS: Charles will be bringing the following: Nerines, Cooperias, Stennomason (pardon my spelling, I am rather rushed just now), and many VERY RARE bulbs among which are the newly named Griffinopsis. IN ADDITON, he will be bringing much rarer bulbs, many of which have not even been named as yet. DON'T MISS THIS once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Please EMAIL ME PRIVATELY ( CathyCraigEA@hotmail.com ) with your date choice: November 8 OR November 15. I will keep you all posted on the results. PLEASE MARK YOUR CALENDARS so you don't miss out! (Or you may call me at 949-369-8588). Cathy Craig EA president PBS Zone 9b From john@johnlonsdale.net Wed Oct 1 19:33:11 2003 Message-Id: <000001c38874$5d4e1cd0$6401a8c0@John> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: Sternbergia greuteriana Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 19:33:05 -0400 Dear Jane, Just a quick note with a question. The ex Mike Salmon Sternbergia lutea ssp. angustifolia you sent me looks and behaves remarkably like Sternbergia sicula here. Is this something you've noticed? It flowers at exactly the same time as sicula - approx. 2-3 weeks before lutea, but especially it has the tell-tale silver stripe down the center of the leaves which I have never seen on any luteas. If you ever have spares of any S. greuteriana clones I'd love to try them. I've had but never germinated seed and the couple plants I've had have not been true to name. Have you ever grown true S. colchiflora - mine always turn into something else? Next year I can let you have S. fischeriana if you like - lovely thing, very late flowering here, in early spring in a normal cold winter. Even in my hoop house it flowered mid-winter. Very large flowers. The leaves are large and glaucous - I sent some to mark McD and he raves about them. Parcel on the way to you on Monday. Best, J. Dr John T Lonsdale, 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jane McGary Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 2:22 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Sternbergia greuteriana After posting the photo of Sternbergia greuteriana, I realized that there is very little information on it available in standard sources, so here is some more: Sternbergia greuteriana Kamari et Artelari (sp. nov. 1990). Native to Karpathos, S. Greece. Narrow bright green leaves (not glaucous as in other small species), slightly emergent at flowering time as in S. sicula. Antoine Hoog writes, "This is the only stoloniferous species in the genus, producing pea-sized offsets at shallow depth, in nature probably very useful for the spread of the species, as these offsets will roll and get washed in all directions; hardiness has been ascertained down to -12 degrees C." This definitely is a good increaser. I have grown it from purchased bulbs (MK.0187) and from seed, so I have several clones. I dry it off in the summer. Although relatively recent to cultivation, S. greuteriana holds a lot of promise! Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From john@johnlonsdale.net Wed Oct 1 19:35:03 2003 Message-Id: <000101c38874$a068c330$6401a8c0@John> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: FW: [pbs] Sternbergia greuteriana Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 19:34:57 -0400 Apologies, this should have gone to Jane directly. J. Dr John T Lonsdale, 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of John Lonsdale Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 7:33 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: RE: [pbs] Sternbergia greuteriana Dear Jane, Just a quick note with a question. The ex Mike Salmon Sternbergia lutea ssp. angustifolia you sent me looks and behaves remarkably like Sternbergia sicula here. Is this something you've noticed? It flowers at exactly the same time as sicula - approx. 2-3 weeks before lutea, but especially it has the tell-tale silver stripe down the center of the leaves which I have never seen on any luteas. If you ever have spares of any S. greuteriana clones I'd love to try them. I've had but never germinated seed and the couple plants I've had have not been true to name. Have you ever grown true S. colchiflora - mine always turn into something else? Next year I can let you have S. fischeriana if you like - lovely thing, very late flowering here, in early spring in a normal cold winter. Even in my hoop house it flowered mid-winter. Very large flowers. The leaves are large and glaucous - I sent some to mark McD and he raves about them. Parcel on the way to you on Monday. Best, J. Dr John T Lonsdale, 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jane McGary Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 2:22 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Sternbergia greuteriana After posting the photo of Sternbergia greuteriana, I realized that there is very little information on it available in standard sources, so here is some more: Sternbergia greuteriana Kamari et Artelari (sp. nov. 1990). Native to Karpathos, S. Greece. Narrow bright green leaves (not glaucous as in other small species), slightly emergent at flowering time as in S. sicula. Antoine Hoog writes, "This is the only stoloniferous species in the genus, producing pea-sized offsets at shallow depth, in nature probably very useful for the spread of the species, as these offsets will roll and get washed in all directions; hardiness has been ascertained down to -12 degrees C." This definitely is a good increaser. I have grown it from purchased bulbs (MK.0187) and from seed, so I have several clones. I dry it off in the summer. Although relatively recent to cultivation, S. greuteriana holds a lot of promise! Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From dejager@bulbargence.com Thu Oct 2 05:54:48 2003 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Sternbergia greuteriana Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:50:03 +0200 Dear John, May I chip here in a private conversation. I grow large quanties of S lutea angustifolia. It looks to me as a hybrid between S lutea and S sicula. The sterile flowers are just like S lutea (rounded petals) The silvery line is is also present in the very narrow leaves of S sicula but are narrower that S lutea. This plant is a common 'wild'garden plant in France and Italy. On the other hand S sicula of which a large clumps has just finished flowering has typical pointed petals. le 2/10/03 1:34, John Lonsdale à john@johnlonsdale.net a écrit : > Apologies, this should have gone to Jane directly. > Just a quick note with a question. The ex Mike Salmon Sternbergia lutea > ssp. angustifolia you sent me looks and behaves remarkably like Sternbergia > sicula here. Is this something you've noticed? It flowers at exactly the > same time as sicula - approx. 2-3 weeks before lutea, but especially it has > the tell-tale silver stripe down the center of the leaves which I have never > seen on any luteas. Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Thu Oct 2 07:58:13 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20031002220211.00b7c2f0@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: IBSA Symposium 2003/Visit to South Africa TOW--Breaking Ornithogalum dormancy Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:02:11 +1000 > >Anyone care to speculate on any of this? I thought Paul would be pleased to >know that he and I are not the only two people who have this problem. > Mary Sue, Yeah but I have bulbs still sitting now after 6 years!!!!!! No exaggeration. Only the orange ones though.... the yellow ones are basically evergreen and no problem at all. After my original ones did not break dormancy I bought 5 more dry bulbs 2 years later. 4 of these still survive (one I assume rotted) and not a single one has surfaced in the 4 years since I bought them. I have recently repotted and put 2 in shade, 2 in full sun, trying to find some way to break their permanent dormancy. I had thought that the original lot had rotted years ago but I recently unearthed a single bulb in their planting location that was identical to the other newer ones I have. So that means that particular bulb which was bought in flower has now survived for 6 years without even thinking about puting up leaves let alone flowers!! Meanwhile as I mentioned above, the yellow form is evergreen for me, flowers very well each year (just coming into bud now), sets seed, produces offsets and is altogether a wonderful plant that I dearly love. I even have seedlings of it that have flowered for me...... all the while with the pot of the orange ones I bought around 4 years ago sitting near them doing nothing (actually, they sat next to them for 2 years, then I have had them elsewhere for the next two trying to get them to do something. I do hope that they work out how we can break their dormancy. Mary Sue, you might want to forward this on to them to let them know just how long mine have now been dormant...... might give them a bit more impetus to sort out how to fix it or else they may have their bulbs sitting for years and not being able to be sold!! Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From msittner@mcn.org Fri Oct 3 00:08:40 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030930192226.00c05cc0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Visit to South Africa TOW Part 1 Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 21:07:27 -0700 Dear All, I'd like to say a few words about the rest of the time we spent in South Africa. So many of people we met as well as the ones we knew from before were so kind to us providing food and/or lodging, information about where to go, and opening their homes and bulb collections to us. And they were very patient with all my questions. We considered ourselves very lucky! There is something quite wonderful about being with people who share your passion. I've had that experience before when I was in New Zealand, Australia, and visited Lauw in France. I highly recommend if you are traveling to try to meet fellow bulb enthusiasts. Rhoda and Cameron McMaster who treated Bob and me with such kindness the last time we visited arranged for us, Patty Colville and Lauw de Jager to spend the weekend with them after the Symposium was over. This was especially thoughtful since Rhoda and Cameron had newly moved to Napier and were moving again in a few weeks to another house. Cameron was to go back to the Eastern Cape before they moved so they were really busy. They arranged for us to go to visit Boskloof and be shown around the property by the owner Thys de Villiers. Boskloof is between Caledon, Stanford and Napier and is mountain fynbos with the "highest concentration of Erica species on earth" (quoted from the brochure.) We paid Thys to show us around in a jeep. He proved to be a very knowledgeable and enthusiastic host and was sure we found bulbs as well as Ericas. He didn't ask us which part of his property we liked the best however as he was afraid he wouldn't like the answer. The day was sunny and warm and there wasn't much wind, even on the top of the mountain. He had predicted we'd be cold so I wore my long underwear and was very sorry! First Thys showed us a lot of plants on some adjoining renosterveld. There were some nice Babianas, some beautiful pink Drosera cistiflora (we saw this quite a lot but I never tired of it), Gladiolus liliaceus, and Moraea tripetala among other things. But the plant I loved and had never seen pictures of before was Aristea teretifolia. My husband's picture of this with the digital camera was so much better than either of our slides which made it pink. Our host took us to see Gladiolus alatus, Spiloxene capensis and then we got in the jeep and started serious exploring. He showed us transition areas between renosterveld and fynbos where we saw a Bobartia species, Romuleas hirsuta, and a lot of Wachendorfia. Then we went on to the fynbos where we saw a lot of flowers in the protea family in bloom, many Ericas, and some special bulbs. We got our first chances to capture Geissorhiza ovata. I had failed on our last trip as it seemed they were always overexposed and we also saw our first Gladiolus debilis, one of my favorites. The star of the day was Gladiolus bullatus which is quite rare and a challenge to grow even though we later met an IBSA member with a pot in bloom. Cameron has taken a really wonderful picture which I hope he will add to the wiki when he has time. As we were wandering around exploring we found Witsenia maura in bloom which was a treat after our pbs TOW on woody Irids. We decided that we should create a wiki page where we could put the pictures of all the bulbs that grow there so that Tys could begin to get as enthusiastic about them as he is about the Ericas. I was to create it and didn't get around to it until today. I've just added one picture to it so far, the one of the Aristea but encourage Cameron and Lauw to fill it up if they have pictures. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Boskloof The following day we went to a really nice Flower Show at Cape Agulhas, the southernmost tip of South Africa. On the way we saw large patches of Gladiolus tristis and Watsonias. Afterwards we drove to Arniston were we were treated to lunch by a friend of Rhoda and Cameron's and outside her house on the rocks overlooking the ocean found Gladiolus cunonius in bloom and a Massonia in seed. We thought it was M. pustulata but were advised that M. depressa is found there. It was quite interesting with the large pods. It was becoming really clear that even in a bad year we were going to see flowers if we were willing to put a little effort into looking for them. Monday the forecast was for rain and we hoped it wouldn't rain, but it did. We were to go to Jim Holmes' nursery and we did. But it wasn't much fun as it was really wet and cold. We still ventured out taking cover in his greenhouses from time to time. We understood that other International members went on Saturday when the weather was delightful (for us too on Boskloof) and spent most of the day so maybe one of them can comment. Jim grows a lot of wonderful things and Lauw especially was disappointed since he was leaving the following day and it was one of his last chances to take flower pictures. We then went to Gordon Summerfield's house where we looked at bulbs in the rain. He has some under cover however. More on that later. Rod and Rachel hosted us a number of times during our stay: before the conference, days we dropped people off at the airport, and at the end. Tuesday we took Patty to see their small holding at Brakenfell. We had been there before, but it was interesting to see all they had done in the meantime. As more and more areas get developed Rod and Rachel are planting out more and more rescued plants. When seeds are cleaned some of what is left is scattered around as well so we expect every year there will be more to see. On the day we were there Gladiolus ringens was in bloom. And the bird perch was blooming too. We never observed that on any of the plants we had seen blooming on our last trip. The area next to them had burned last year and they were able to stop it before it burned their property. So now there were blooming bulbs on the other side of the fence in the burned area. One really gorgeous Lachenalia I admired they were growing in one of their tunnels, Lachenalia anguinea. Another IBSA member, Henry Pauw and his wife Helga, offered to let us use their beach house in Betty's Bay. Before we went there we spent a night in Stellenbosch with them and got to have more than one look at Henry's bulb collection and to talk with him about how he grows bulbs. Henry took us exploring in Stellenbosch and then for a drive. He was disappointed because we were still a little early for very many flowers, but we did find flowers in bloom including a nice Romulea and of course some Oxalis. Betty's Bay is a very beautiful area and although we didn't see a lot of bulbs, we saw penguins and had several wonderful walks and once again saw fynbos. It was while we were walking in Harold Porter garden we were delighted to meet delegates Pat and David Victor. Before the rain made us decide to retreat to the gift store they told us about what they had done since the Symposium ended and suggested we visit Drayton and the garden in Caledon which we did the next day. Drayton as I mentioned in another post was one of my favorite places. I wished other delegates could have gone there too, but the more I thought about it wasn't sure that it would have been good for 90+ people to be tramping around such a small spot. I have made a wiki page for Drayton and added some of the wonderful flowers we saw. My list is over 30 things and obviously I don't have pictures of all of them. Time constraints allowed me only time to add Aristea biflora, Babiana purpurea, many gorgeous forms of Gladiolus liliaceus, three species of Oxalis that I think were different and I am happy to entertain suppositions on identity of, Spiloxene capensis, and Watsonia meriana. If anyone else went to Drayton and has pictures to add please do. Hopefully I'll get some others added on another day if I can find some time. There were some nice Moraeas there and you can see Wachendorfia paniculata if you look hard enough. None of the digital pictures of it turned out very well of it. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Drayton After that we went on to the Caledon Garden and agreed with the Victors that it was a very nice place to visit. We spent quite awhile walking around and were pleased to meet Bill Squires who was a UK delegate to the Symposium. We were very enthusiastic about Drayton and told him to be sure and go the next day when the flowers would be open. It was such a nice feeling to be in a foreign country and to keep running into people you felt were friends. Our last day in Betty's Bay we went for a lovely walk along the beach and caught the flower show at Harold Porter which wasn't nearly as nice as the one at Agulhas. Then we went back to Gordon Summerfield's for lunch and our second look at his large collection of bulbs. We had such a great time discussing and looking at bulbs. I was reminded of what I have learned about my native plants and that is if you grow from seed from many different places you can have wonderful variations in the same species: size, time of bloom, color, markings, etc. Gordon is growing a whole lot of different Spiloxene capensis and I was fascinated by the variations. We also had one more visit with the Pauws when we returned our bedding from their beach cottage and were so glad for the excuse to see them one more time and to see if any more of Henry's flowers were in bloom. To be continued. Mary Sue From arnold@nj.rr.com Fri Oct 3 08:39:26 2003 Message-Id: <3F7D6DFD.9000508@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: new member Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:39:25 -0400 A post from Rand who just joined. So he will be able to read nay responses from the group. Arnold Hello: I have just received some Ferraria crispa bulbs/tubers which are on a Mediterranean cycle and am wondering how I can grow them here in Maritime Canada. What kind of culture should I give them and can they be "switched" to our northern seasons? Regards, Rand Nicholson z 5b Maritime Canada From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Fri Oct 3 09:08:22 2003 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: New Member/Ferraria crispa Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:08:00 -0400 Hello: As an introduction to the PBS List, I am a plant hobbiest with a modest collection, growing a few CPs, Aroids, including Amorphophallus sp. and Arisaema, Bromeliads, orchids, caudiciforms and a hodgepodge of other interesting (to me) plants. Constantly trying new bulbs, I face certain challenges with many because of my zone 5b (offically, if not always in fact) Atlantic Maritime Canadian climate. This often causes me to try and "switch" over bulbs that I _Just Must Have_ from a southern cycle to a northern so that I can grow them outside in our spring and summer. Otherwise, I attempt to grow and bloom them through winter indoors desperately hoping for some colour in a rather long white season. Which brings me to some questions: I have just received some Ferraria crispa bulbs/tubers which are on a Mediterranean cycle and am wondering how I can grow them here in Maritime Canada. What kind of culture should I give them and can they be "switched" to our northern seasons? They are starting to sprout in my veggie crisper as I write, so I have no choice but to pot these up now. Also, anything anyone knows about growing Serapias lingua and Morea sp would be appreciated. Regards, Rand Nicholson z 5b Maritime Canada From msittner@mcn.org Fri Oct 3 10:50:58 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031003073959.01aa2b80@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: New Member/Ferraria crispa Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 07:49:41 -0700 Dear Rand, Welcome to the PBS List. There was a man on the IBS list for awhile many years ago from Seattle named George Krassle. He dropped out and I didn't have any luck contacting him later. He reported to that group that he was growing Ferraria on a summer cycle as he was unable to grow them successfully with his wet cold winters otherwise. I tried to turn some of mine around and didn't have any luck even though he said it was quite easy and they started into growth when he watered them. Maybe if you started them from seed in the spring and they always had been grown that way it would work. Or maybe it depended on how they were stored. In October I plan to have a topic of the week on the subject you have suggested. It was inspired by Lisa Flaum, but I wanted to wait until Mark Wilcox has returned from South America since he too is interested. I've haven't figured out a title yet, maybe Bulbs that can be grown out of their normal cycle? Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Fri Oct 3 11:40:43 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031003075003.01aa39e0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: When to start watering--Second time around Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:38:47 -0700 Dear All, Last year about this time we had an extremely interesting discussion about when to start watering our winter growing bulbs, especially if we have protected them in dormancy or live in an area where it is dry in summer. If you were not part of our list then you might want to look at the archives for October 2003: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2002-October/subject.html When I was in South Africa I asked people when they started watering their bulbs. Gordon Summerfield said if his bulbs had not started into growth by April 15 (October 15 I guess that would make it in the northern hemisphere) he watered them very well then. Others said that seemed about right, but they'd water any others earlier if they showed signs of life. I don't believe anyone said they watered their bulbs in summer, but they do get some rainfall in summer so that no doubt makes a difference. Members of our list who insisted that they lost their bulbs without watering them in summer were mostly from Southern California which has a much shorter rainfall season with less rain than we get in Northern California and I expect higher night time temperatures as well. I had an extremely interesting discussion with Alan Horstmann about this subject of when to start watering. He observed that in the wild there were many South African bulbs that had a very short growing season in response to the amount of rainfall they get. If those are watered early they are in growth much longer than they normally would be and if they bloom in their regular time frame their leaves may have become untidy. So he is going to experiment with starting to water some of these much later to see if they would then become a more attractive pot subject. Genera he mentioned he was thinking about experimenting with were Tritonias and Ixias. This resonated with me since many of these bloom really late in the season for me and with all the rain I get their leaves look awful by then. Many of them are coming up now as I watered them before I left and that means they would be in growth from September-October to when they start drying up in May, a very long time. He also talked about some of the Lachenalias that come from very dry habitats. Some of these also are from cold areas. Gordon had told us to water them from below and shelter them from the dew which he thought caused more problems than rain so he was growing them under cover. My notes from Alan were species like L. isopetala, zebrina, doleritica, obscura, and even mutabilis (although this last one has a wider distribution so it may depend on its origins.) Alan had a very tiny Lachenalia he was growing that was quite choice that he had keyed out to be mutabilis. Finally Alan had some gorgeous pots of Daubenya aurea in bloom. Most of us who would have seen them would have wanted to add them to their collection. Alan told us that he had the very best luck getting them to bloom this year after taking them out of the soil and storing them dry for three months in the refrigerator to provide the proper cooling before potting them. So mine that did not come up last year at all I dumped out of the soil when I got back and they are getting chilled. Since this is a bit late to start we will see how the delayed planting works. Mary Sue From arnold@nj.rr.com Fri Oct 3 12:53:59 2003 Message-Id: <3F7DA9A5.7080506@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Databases Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 12:53:57 -0400 I know that Mary Sue has worked hard to keep the "topics of the week" flowing but I just came upon a topic that I think we all could use some input on. I need a data base to store information on all my bulbs. I am sure that we all have improvised some sort of system for keeping track of where we planted, where we got from and how it grows and flowers. So, is there any " expert" out there that has the ultimate data base we all could use or does anyone have suggestions as to what the data base should contain.. I am sure that there is one better than the one I have improvised. Arnold New Jersey From eagle85@flash.net Fri Oct 3 13:17:02 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: When to start watering--Second time around Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 10:06:39 -0700 Mary Sue IttnerDoug Westfall msittner@mcn.org1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Dear All, Here in "mild" (except for the heat wave that we had this summer) So. California, I keep seedling Scadoxus, Haemanthus, and Hippeastrum growing just as long as possible - often 2 - 3 years. past that time, I mark every species with a "begin foliage" date and start with a first watering sometime in the month before that date. Then, I begin a "normal" watering pattern with the emerging of the leaf or flower. I use 1/4 strength liquid fertilizer with about 80% of the waterings. I also find that "off season" watering (ie. summer) is helpful, beneficial, and realistic. This plan does call for careful "watching." The result for me is that my bulbs are healthier and I am having more blooms than ever before. My seedlings are also growing much faster and more successfully. Doug Westfall From jshields104@insightbb.com Fri Oct 3 13:36:13 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031003120929.0276d850@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Databases Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 12:35:01 -0500 Hi Arnold and all, There is probably no "universal" database, because the most powerful ones are a bit overwhelming to the novice DB user. I do have some words of advice to anyone starting a new database: use a lot more separate, detailed individual fields than you think (right now) that you will need! I would suggest the following as an absolute minimum for the MAIN TABLE: Genus name Species name Subspecific name(s) i.e., subspecies name, or variety name, or form name Cultivar name Accession Number (this is the single most important item in the whole list!) Date acquired Source You can make a separate table for Genus names vs. Family names Then, if a genus gets moved from one family to another, you only have to change it in one place, i.e., in this table. You can and should make a separate table for details about what has been done with or observed in the individual accessions. Use that "Accession Number" to link this table to the main table. The worst single mistake the novice database designer can make is to lump all the names into one field, e.g. Name: "Ismene narcissiflora Advance" instead of Genus: Ismene Species: narcissiflora Subspecific names: Cultivar name: Advance Keep in mind that what one person sends you as Lachenalia bulbifera may not be the same thing that another person may send you as Lachenalia bulbifera -- those accessions numbers enable you to keep your various different examples of "Lachenalia bulbifera" separated in your database. I use Microsoft Access, a relational database. It is indeed very powerful, and lends itself, after you learn to use it, to some pretty sophisticated data analysis, report generation, etc. But I'm prejudiced. I've been working with databases for a long time. The rank beginner should probably use Excel or some other spreadsheet. If you use Excel, you can later pull all those worksheets into an Access database as tables, if you want to upgrade your data systems. If you expect to share data with other hobbyists, be sure to use one of the common programs, like Excel or Access. Don't go for cheap or obscure and then expect to be able to share data with everyone else. I have an MS Access database template (i.e., an empty database) for bulb collections, if you have MS Access and want to look an example. (Contact me privately at if you are interested.) Good luck! Jim Shields in central Indiana At 12:53 PM 10/3/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I know that Mary Sue has worked hard to keep the "topics of the week" >flowing but I just came upon a topic that I think we all could use some >input on. I need a data base to store information on all my bulbs. I am >sure that we all have improvised some sort of system for keeping track of >where we planted, where we got from and how it grows and flowers. > >So, is there any " expert" out there that has the ultimate data base we >all could use or does anyone have suggestions as to what the data base >should contain.. I am sure that there is one better than the one I have >improvised. > >Arnold >New Jersey ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Oct 3 20:50:27 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031003112123.00b75578@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: When to start watering--Second time around Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 11:47:36 -0700 I live in an area (the maritime Pacific Northwest USA) that typically has no rainfall in July and August; this year there were only two rainy days in September as well. However, October through May and often into June is almost continually wet. Most of my more interesting bulbs are grown in permanently covered cold frames, in pots plunged nearly to the rim in sand. One frame has removable covers that I put on only from about mid-November to mid-March; it holds bulbs well adapted to the climate here, things I can grow in the open garden but need to have a stock of for safekeeping. I hand-water the covered frames on different schedules. Frame 1 is not irrigated from about the end of April through late September, and often I don't have to water it much during winter because the sand draws up ground water, which penetrates the mesh and clay pots. I have a dry section in Frame 4 that is managed the same way. Frames 2 and much of 4 are watered more, including enough water in summer to keep the soil just slightly moist. In Frame 5 I have a lot of seedlings, which I water some in summer even if they are xeric species, in order to keep them from desiccating while too small to recover from it. With them I have various bulbs that tolerate summer moisture, and also one section for summer-growers such as alpine Rhodophialas and lilies, which I don't water in winter though they don't dry out, either. I should point out that being plunged, the pots do not get hot and desiccated as they would if kept above ground. Also, summer nights are quite cool here, so the soil doesn't heat up a lot even in the frames. When I lift the pots around the end of July, the bottoms are cool to the touch. In order to decide where to put a given species, I read about its native habitat. Sometimes I interpret this information wrongly and find out later that I've misplaced it. If something doesn't thrive in one area, I move it to another. The most useful books for this purpose are Martyn Rix's "Random House [UK Pan] Book of Bulbs" and Brian Mathew's "Complete Guide to Growing Bulbs," supplemented by field guides such as those by Oleg Polunin, and of course the notes of the seed collectors who enabled me to grow the bulbs. Even better is visiting the source area! This is a lot of hand-watering, considering that the five frames are 40 to 44 feet long and 4 to 5.5 feet wide. However, I like taking the time to observe the plants. This year I watered a bit too early, with the first rain, because soon afterward we had a historic record heat wave in late September. I kept the pots moist, however, because I thought it would cool them down, and so far things look all right. It's true that you can retard growth by delaying watering, but I feel that this can slowly sap the strength of the plants over several years. And it can be death to tiny bulbs. I'd rather protect them from the infrequent severe cold here, and have them flowering throughout fall, winter, and early spring. However, this might not work for those in colder areas such as the Northeast and Midwest USA, or Canada. Someone mentioned avoiding getting water on the foliage of certain bulbous plants from very dry areas. In the new issue of the AGS journal, Rannveig Wallis mentions problems with Botrytis on foliage in their bulb collection in soggy Wales. I don't have any trouble with this disease for some reason, even with the wet winters, though I do try to water below the foliage where it's feasible. The only Botrytis I have seen here has been on the very leafy Fritillaria davisii, and on some Fritillarias I got from China via Paul Christian (most of them died despite lots of spraying). However, Botrytis paeoniae, which seems to have come here on some plants I purchased from a Midwest grower, has destroyed many hybrid peonies in the garden, and I no longer plant them. In summary, I think most bulbs should not become bone-dry even while dormant, but keeping them just faintly moist is tricky unless you plunge the pots. (Using peat-based composts causes problems, too; I use forest loam as the organic component instead.) Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Oct 3 20:50:27 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031003114815.00b77268@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Databases Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 11:57:57 -0700 I use a database application called Filemaker Pro, available from Claris Corporation. I think it's easier to use than any of the Microsoft applications because it does not try to get you to do things you don't want to do, and it doesn't suddenly perform actions you don't understand, and it doesn't have cutesy features. It comes in PC and Mac versions, and I have transferred data done on a Mac to my PC in the past. It is a little difficult to learn how to design the layouts. Adding new entries, finding, sorting, and selecting are easy and intuitive. The fields I use are: Genus; species, subspecies, and cultivar name; source (where I got it, including information on wild collection site, collector's number, etc.); location (where it is in my bulb frames - which have numbered sections - or garden); cost (what I paid per bulb); flowering time; and comments. The Filemaker fields are expandable so I can write as much as I want in any of them. The data can be printed out in a variety of layouts and subsets, and this is handy when I need to have a hard copy on a clipboard to do some particular task in the collection. I recommend this application for anybody who likes to avoid Microsoft. I bought it even though I have Excel and Access, both of which I hate to use. Jane McGary From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Fri Oct 3 14:58:14 2003 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476B9755F@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Databases Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:58:28 -0500 Hi Arnold: This is a question for which there are as many 'ultimate databases' as there are bulb growers. At Chicago Botanic Garden we have an Access database that stores all of our information about our plant collection. Currently the database has columns to hold 110 different fields of information for our 2.2 million plants (rows of information). Because of the size of our job, our Access is configured as a relational database as alluded to by Jim Shields in an earlier email. The database we have at work is overkill for what I have at home but may be appropriate for some of the more avid bulb enthusiasts on this list. We find it very useful because it is 'off the shelf' in contrast to other software packages that are very expensive to purchase and because it is so commonly used we can get help and/or classes when we need them. Excel spreadsheets have come a long way, and current versions permit images to be imbedded in the spreadsheet and called up with the click of a icon. If I was going to enter all of my scraps of paper with names and sources that I keep for the home bulbs into a software application it would probably be Excel. It is very forgiving of mistakes and errors in the design and setup of the table. It is much more difficult however to create a report of a subset of the information (in my experience) and the Excel file I maintain on the plants brought back from Republic of Georgia (until they leave the nursery and are planted in the Gardens, when the information is moved to the Access database) would easily wallpaper a wall if I printed the whole thing. For Mac/Apple users, FoxPro has many of the same characteristics as Access has for PC users. Unfortunately, we've found databases created in Microsoft Access 97 to be incompatible with Access 2000 and later versions. DOS database applications like dBase have also evolved a great deal and some of the more recent versions are supposed to be Windows compatible but I can't speak from personal experience. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: Arnold Trachtenberg [mailto:arnold@nj.rr.com] Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 11:54 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Re: Databases I know that Mary Sue has worked hard to keep the "topics of the week" flowing but I just came upon a topic that I think we all could use some input on. I need a data base to store information on all my bulbs. I am sure that we all have improvised some sort of system for keeping track of where we planted, where we got from and how it grows and flowers. So, is there any " expert" out there that has the ultimate data base we all could use or does anyone have suggestions as to what the data base should contain.. I am sure that there is one better than the one I have improvised. Arnold New Jersey _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From arnold@nj.rr.com Fri Oct 3 21:27:40 2003 Message-Id: <3F7E220A.5000708@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Databases Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 21:27:38 -0400 Jane: I have an old version of Filemaker pro for my Mac. How about some of our more computer able PBS'ers put some sample data bases on the Wiki Wiki so we could review and learn from them. They may be too large for the place but maybe only leave for a couple of weeks. What do you all think. Arnold From bandula@absamail.co.za Sun Oct 5 02:00:24 2003 Message-Id: <009501c38a3d$19d60380$715627c4@w98sysrec> From: "Digby Boswell" Subject: Ornithogalum Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 06:27:06 +0200 Hi All, The question about Ornithogalum dubium :- I have a big problem with this species as it sows itself into any other pot that is near. I have now resorted to digging them out of the pots and planting them into the ground in a raised bed. They are just coming into bloom at the moment and it seems as if they al survived the summer rains. I have also found that if I do not dry them out that they just keep growing. This applies to seed aswell which will flower in it's second season, where as if dried out and forced into dormancy the might flower in the 3rd year. I spoke to someone from Durban ( about 80Km from where I live with a hot humid climate) the other day and he says that O.dubium does not survive their climate and that bulbs brought in last one year. Cheers, Digby Boswell, Pietermaritzburg (Summer rainfall area) South Africa From roberth6@mac.com Sat Oct 4 02:46:02 2003 Message-Id: <016258D4-F636-11D7-823A-0003938EDBFA@mac.com> From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Databases Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 16:43:04 +1000 Hi Arnold, > I have an old version of Filemaker pro for my Mac. Why not use the database which is part of Appleworks. It is very simple to set up with about a dozen different field categories - if you need more than text. Cheers, Rob in Tasmania From bandula@absamail.co.za Sun Oct 5 06:26:58 2003 Message-Id: <005b01c38a62$56a09b20$ac5427c4@w98sysrec> From: "Digby Boswell" Subject: New Member/Ferraria crispa Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 12:27:23 +0200 Hi Rand, I have a couple of Ferraria species that produced the best flowering that I have ever had. The advice I received was that Ferraria's flower best after being disturbed and this would certainly seen to be true. I depotted my bulbs in dormancy and than left them out for about 3 months (I actually forgot about them). I then planted them in a tray that is only 4 inch deep and they responded by flowering so it would seem to me that they need to be repotted yearly if you want them to flower. Cheers, Digby Boswell. Pietermaritzburg South Africa (And it is getting *%^& hot here) ----- Original Message ----- From: Rand Nicholson To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: 04 October 2003 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] New Member/Ferraria crispa > Thanks Jim; > > The Ferraria bulbs are about 3/4" at the largest. Do you have any > suggestions about pot size and depth? I assume they need extra > drainage? > > Rand (warming up a soil mix after last night's frost ...) > > > > >Hi Rand and all, > > > >If you don't have a greenhouse, put the pot of Ferraria in the > >brightest, sunniest window you have. > > > >Good luck on trying to switch them over. My only thought on the > >subject would be to store the bulbs next summer and autumn for as > >long as possible out of the pot, bare, and in a brightly lit, warm > >and quite dry location to delay the new shoots. > > > >Some bulbs are very sensitive to environmental conditions and come > >in and out of dormancy in response to moisture, daylight length, > >heat, cold, etc. Others seem to have a built-in calender and clock > >and grow on their own timetable regardless of conditions around them. > > > >Regards, > >Jim Shields > >in central Indiana, where my pots of Ferraria have not started to grow yet. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From jshields104@insightbb.com Sat Oct 4 09:51:55 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031004084313.02693d68@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: New Member/Ferraria crispa Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 08:51:54 -0500 Hi Rand and all, If you don't have a greenhouse, put the pot of Ferraria in the brightest, sunniest window you have. Good luck on trying to switch them over. My only thought on the subject would be to store the bulbs next summer and autumn for as long as possible out of the pot, bare, and in a brightly lit, warm and quite dry location to delay the new shoots. Some bulbs are very sensitive to environmental conditions and come in and out of dormancy in response to moisture, daylight length, heat, cold, etc. Others seem to have a built-in calender and clock and grow on their own timetable regardless of conditions around them. Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana, where my pots of Ferraria have not started to grow yet. At 10:38 AM 10/4/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Mary Sue and PBSers: > >Thanks for the welcome. > >I will be extremely interested in this particular Topic of the Week, but >right now, I could use some advice on planting my Ferraria crispa bulbs >which are sprouting as I write. And on keeping them going over the winter >until I can try to switch them. They will be potted and kept indoors over >the winter. > >Anyone have any suggestion to share? > >Rand > > >>Dear Rand, >> >>Welcome to the PBS List. There was a man on the IBS list for awhile many >>years ago from Seattle named George Krassle. He dropped out and I didn't >>have any luck contacting him later. He reported to that group that he was >>growing Ferraria on a summer cycle as he was unable to grow them >>successfully with his wet cold winters otherwise. I tried to turn some of >>mine around and didn't have any luck even though he said it was quite >>easy and they started into growth when he watered them. Maybe if you >>started them from seed in the spring and they always had been grown that >>way it would work. Or maybe it depended on how they were stored. >> >>In October I plan to have a topic of the week on the subject you have >>suggested. It was inspired by Lisa Flaum, but I wanted to wait until Mark >>Wilcox has returned from South America since he too is interested. I've >>haven't figured out a title yet, maybe Bulbs that can be grown out of >>their normal cycle? >> >>Mary Sue >> >>_______________________________________________ >>pbs mailing list >>pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From msittner@mcn.org Sat Oct 4 10:32:48 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031004072735.01b18ef0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: New Member/Ferraria crispa Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 07:30:58 -0700 Dear Rand, Ferrarias have the reputation for pulling themselves down very deeply so I'd also recommend a large pot. I'll look through my archives and see if there is anything I can find from the past and will send it to you privately. Mary Sue From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Sat Oct 4 09:39:06 2003 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: New Member/Ferraria crispa Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 10:38:04 -0400 Mary Sue and PBSers: Thanks for the welcome. I will be extremely interested in this particular Topic of the Week, but right now, I could use some advice on planting my Ferraria crispa bulbs which are sprouting as I write. And on keeping them going over the winter until I can try to switch them. They will be potted and kept indoors over the winter. Anyone have any suggestion to share? Rand >Dear Rand, > >Welcome to the PBS List. There was a man on the IBS list for awhile >many years ago from Seattle named George Krassle. He dropped out and >I didn't have any luck contacting him later. He reported to that >group that he was growing Ferraria on a summer cycle as he was >unable to grow them successfully with his wet cold winters >otherwise. I tried to turn some of mine around and didn't have any >luck even though he said it was quite easy and they started into >growth when he watered them. Maybe if you started them from seed in >the spring and they always had been grown that way it would work. Or >maybe it depended on how they were stored. > >In October I plan to have a topic of the week on the subject you >have suggested. It was inspired by Lisa Flaum, but I wanted to wait >until Mark Wilcox has returned from South America since he too is >interested. I've haven't figured out a title yet, maybe Bulbs that >can be grown out of their normal cycle? > >Mary Sue > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Sat Oct 4 11:17:55 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031002210007.00d48250@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Visit to South Africa TOW Part 2 Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 08:16:15 -0700 Dear All, We still had time to explore but were not sure where to go in this very dry year. We were advised to forget about Namaqualand, Nieuwoudtville, the West Coast, Clanwilliam, and the Cedarberg. People had scouted those areas and there just wasn't anything in bloom. Rod and Rachel suggested we go to areas where they had rain, the Little Karoo and back to the southern part of the Cape. Some people wondered about the advice about the Little Karoo since this is an area known for succulents, but Rod and Rachel suggested we scout out the passes and get out of our car and see what we could see. So after a very nice visit to Alan Horstmanm, the IBSA vice chairman, who showed us his very splendid bulb collection and a nice hike in the Silvermine preserve with Rod and Rachel we headed for Montagu. My husband who is not passionate about bulbs does like to see plants in the wild. He proved to be an excellent spotter. He learned to look for southern exposures where the soil would stay wet longer. On one pass before we turned off the main highway there was a very large burn area. So we parked the car, found a break in the fence, and climbed up and around. There were a lot of patches of Oxalis (mostly obtusa as I recall) and quite a lot of Moraeas (Homeria types), Bulbines, Bulbinellas, Ixias, all in all quite a number of interesting things in bloom. We thought there were several different species of the Homerias since some had one long flat leaf and others two and the flowers were different and there seemed to be some two toned very pretty ones, and we wondered if they were natural hybrids. As we drove we stopped whenever we saw other things blooming and encountered a really pretty pink Romulea we weren't sure of and more Bulbinellas. In Montagu we went hiking on a trail we were told about and didn't see too many bulbs (one little blue Moraea only) although we did spot what we thought were klip springers on a ledge overlooking the trail. The next day it was suggested we go to the local garden/reserve since they had tea on Tuesdays. To our delight we found quite a few flowers in bloom, some seen before, but also a few new ones. There was one white Tritonia that we found in a number of places and a very pretty yellow and white small Moraea with interesting leaves. We also saw Cyanella lutea. Now what we heard about Montagu was that it so rarely rained there that when it does rain everyone goes out to look. Seeing the Cyanella lutea it struck me that it was no wonder if wasn't really very happy in an area where we often get 60 inches of rain during our winter rainy season. The fact that I had one in a raised bed subjected to the elements that bloomed for three years before it disappeared was more surprising than the fact it disappeared. Tuesday Teas were started in this community so they could raise funds to pay the man who weeds the garden and it was quite a social occasion. We introduced ourselves and soon were referred to a woman people thought would most know the plants. She went back with us to help us identify the Moraea and the Tritonia. When we got to those places, she looked struck and told us she had never seen those flowers before. We decided with our own research they were probably Moraea serpentina and Tritonia bakeri. Were they blooming because Montagu had twice as much rain as usual this year or had she never just noticed them before? We felt sure she would tell the man who tends the garden and he would watch out for them. She told us where else to go in town to search for bulbs (again in a northern exposure) near an old cannon and we found some beautiful blue and yellow Babianas, nice Watsonias, and on the rocks seem really pretty Oxalis. Exploring the passes around Montagu we found a very beautiful Gladiolus that I think was venustus. The highlight for me was looking out the car window and seeing an apricot hillside. It was a rather large patch and it didn't look like it had been burned. So what was it? It was off in the distance, not right next to the road. Bob offered to take a picture with his telephoto lens when we deduced it was Oxalis, but I wanted to see it more closely so started walking cross country and had vaulted over the fence before he caught up with me. It was the most delightful place that was just covered with Oxalis obtusa. From a distance they all looked the same color but up close there were many variations in color. Why no competition from shrubs in this spot? We were so puzzled. I couldn't decide whether to call it Oxalis Hill or Oxalis Heaven. Two other finds on our drives in the Little Karoo were Gladiolus rogersii which Bob spotted when looking for birds with his binoculars at our lunch spot which resulted in another hill scramble and finally finding one flower to photograph that wasn't half eaten and a cliff of Veltheimia capensis in seed. From a distance you'd think the big red seed pods were flowers. It was very striking. We went back to Swellendam on the other side of the river where we had been on one of the field trips. Bob was ready to see animals, not flowers, so we went to the Bontebok National Park for a day to look for animals. We stayed there all day and at the end of the day the count was two species of animals, Bontebok and Mountain Zebra, quite a number of birds, and more than 40 different geophytes! I won't list them all but we saw 7 different Moraeas (bellendenii, unguiculata and angusta were three new ones), some really attractive Babianas (patula and patersoniae?), wonderful Watsonias (alectroides, laccata, and even some nice merianas), Lachenalia contaminata, a gorgeous Gladiolus (grandiflorus?), and a wonderful orange orchid (Satyruim coriifolium). On the way to the Caledon Flower show the next day we stopped once again at Drayton Siding to admire all those flowers we loved before. It had been raining (which is why flowers look wet in some of our pictures) so many of them were droopy, but we still found it inspiring. We met IBSA member Mary Stobie as arranged at the show and went with her to her home in Greyton where we spent the night. Mary also has a collection of pots we enjoyed looking at and a beautiful garden with a view of the mountains. She has many resident birds including an owl that has taken up lodging. Mary is working on her garden as she hasn't lived in this house for very long and she plans to plant some of her bulbs out in a special sand area if she isn't talked out of it by her daughter who thinks it wouldn't be attractive during summer. We took a walk with her in her native areas and found some more Watsonia laccata and some really striking Gladiolus virescens. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Gladiolus_virescens4.jpg The most exciting thing we saw was a white spider orchid, a Bartholina, that she had only once before seen. Who saw it first? Bob of course. The Clivia Club was having a four day flower show and IBSA had several display tables so we headed back to the Cape Town area for that. We very much enjoyed seeing all the Clivias and the IBSA bulbs in bloom, but even more seeing the IBSA members again who were there. I got to talk with Allan Hill who I had not talked with at the Symposium. Allan grows bulbs in what he calls saw dust, but is what I'd call wood shavings, unlike most of the other IBSA members who use a lot of sand in their mixes. His pots are light to lift and Allan is having very good results, but he said he wouldn't recommend others using it because you have to be very careful how you do it and if not you could lose everything. He makes sure the wood isn't treated and found that one kind of wood gave him an allergy so which wood is important too. He sifts to remove fines, uses the right size pot (for some things shallow is better), takes special care to fertilize with non organic fertilizers since organic fertilizers break the mix down and turn it to mush, and is careful about the watering. If it gets too wet, things rot. He plants the seeds right in the pot with the older bulbs. It was amazing how many plants were growing in these little pots. Our days in South Africa were numbered. We once again hiked in Silvermine with a woman we had met at the Symposium. Another day we went seed collecting with Rod and visited burn areas. On one of them there was a very large patch of Baeometra uniflora in bloom. It was very pretty and Rod commented if he saw it looking like that he might even grow to like it. This plant opens he said around three so no doubt causes frustration but I think we saw it open before that when we were at the Bontebok Park. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Baeometra. We saw a lot of different Babianas with Rod and Gladiolus we had seen before. As we were driving late in the day he stopped abruptly. We thought that he had spotted something, but instead he had smelled Gladiolus virescens. It really is so fragrant. You he has developed an ability to spot bulbs another way as well. The ones we saw with him were yellow. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Gladiolus_virescens2.jpg Rod and Rachel had been invited to visit IBSA member Rossouw Malherbe's property near Paarl and we were able to go with them. We spent the day there and when we had seen all his plants he took us to a neighboring farmer's property too. Highlights here were two more Aristeas. One had both blue and white flowers on the same plant! I loved the Aristeas I saw on this trip and have made a wiki page for all of them. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Aristea Rossouw had some really pretty Gladiolus alatus in bloom too: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Gladiolus_alatus2.jpg But what fascinated us was all the variations in his Moraea papilionacea. I have tried to grow this one but when the plant bloomed it turned out to be Moraea vegeta. I'm trying again, but so far no blooms yet. This Moraea is very hairy. We saw some at Drayton too. Rossouw's were pink, apricot, yellow, and bicolors. We kept seeing more I wanted to photograph. Rossouw told us that when my friend Bob Werra who lives in California visited he told Rossouw he could hear them crying they wanted to come to California! I obviously need to talk to Bob to find out if they did. I think Rachel said Rossouw had said they can collect seed on his property so perhaps seed will be available too. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Moraea_papilionacea.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Moraea_papilionacea3.jpg This one is an interesting combination, both pink and yellow. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Moraea_papilionacea_bi.jpg Rossouw also had a lot of nice Geissorhiza inflexas growing on his property, the bright red ones. At the end of the day he showed us a large flowering patch on his neighbor's land of white ones with a pink reverse. It looked a lot like Hesperantha cucullata from a distance, but the style was divided at the top so it was a Geissorhiza. G. inflexa comes in a lot of different colors. I don't think you can improve on the red ones which I grow, but these were very nice. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Geissorhiza_inflexa_white.jpg The plant that fascinated me on his neighbor's property was Onixotis punctata. I am growing some of this one from seed and when I saw a couple of blooming IBSA pots I was really glad. The pictures in my books never did it justice but now I am looking forward to blooms. The ones we saw were the members growing and in the wild were a nice pink. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Onixotis On our last day we explored the Cape Peninsula National Park and saw Geissorhiza aspera in bloom and another Gladiolus cunonius. Looking at plants in the wild is such a treat. As you try to figure them out you realize you need to look at the leaves as well as the flowers, the bracts, the habitat, the time of bloom, etc. South Africa has so many different species and they aren't all found in field guides. The field guides we had with us often didn't give us enough information to really sort them out. We will continue to learn as we try to identify our pictures. I made a list of over 150 different geophytes I thought we had seen in flower in the wild. There were of course a lot of Amaryllid leaves as well. After we looked at our slides I realized I had missed a lot so the number is much higher. Not bad for a drought year when we didn't think we'd see many flowers. Add to that all those flowers we saw blooming on display tables and in people's collections and the number soars. And there were the views, the Ericas, Proteas, peas, genera that only exists in South Africa we also saw as well. Well that's it. I feel a bit like a rocket that shot out, burned brightly, and is now fading. Writing all this has taken enormous time and energy. A lot of you asked me to tell about this trip and there was so much I learned I wanted to share. I hope you all have enjoyed my reports. We consider ourselves very lucky to have met such nice people, been treated so well, and seen so many things even in a drought year. I will tell you about Gordon's talk, but it is going to have to wait until I have more time and have finished potting up my bulbs and started my seeds. I'll also try to summarize Dee's talk later and send that to those couple of people who said they were interested and do the same for Rob about the Gethyllis talk. (Unless perhaps I get some requests for a Gethyllis topic of the week we can do this fall). Eventually I'll add more pictures to the wiki. And I am sure there will be other things I remember that I can post later. Mary Sue From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Sat Oct 4 10:41:46 2003 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: New Member/Ferraria crispa Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:41:37 -0400 Thanks Jim; The Ferraria bulbs are about 3/4" at the largest. Do you have any suggestions about pot size and depth? I assume they need extra drainage? Rand (warming up a soil mix after last night's frost ...) >Hi Rand and all, > >If you don't have a greenhouse, put the pot of Ferraria in the >brightest, sunniest window you have. > >Good luck on trying to switch them over. My only thought on the >subject would be to store the bulbs next summer and autumn for as >long as possible out of the pot, bare, and in a brightly lit, warm >and quite dry location to delay the new shoots. > >Some bulbs are very sensitive to environmental conditions and come >in and out of dormancy in response to moisture, daylight length, >heat, cold, etc. Others seem to have a built-in calender and clock >and grow on their own timetable regardless of conditions around them. > >Regards, >Jim Shields >in central Indiana, where my pots of Ferraria have not started to grow yet. From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Sat Oct 4 10:49:16 2003 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: New Member/Ferraria crispa Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:49:07 -0400 Heh. I can sure pick 'em. Thanks Mary Sue and Jim. Rand (rooting bemusedly for one big pot, unoccupied) >Dear Rand, > >Ferrarias have the reputation for pulling themselves down very >deeply so I'd also recommend a large pot. I'll look through my >archives and see if there is anything I can find from the past and >will send it to you privately. > >Mary Sue > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jshields104@insightbb.com Sat Oct 4 11:57:57 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031004105224.027644c8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: New Member/Ferraria crispa Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 10:57:32 -0500 Rand, I have mature Ferraria crispa blooming each winter in a 6 inch clay pot. I've had other seedlings of F. crispa in a 6--in clay pot for years with no sign of bloom or increase in size. So, I suspect that a large, deep pot is a good idea in the long run. Your main job right now is to get them through the winter and next summer. You might try drying them off in late winter and starting them again in mid-summer next year, to ease them over to a different cycle. Jim Shields At 11:49 AM 10/4/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Heh. I can sure pick 'em. Thanks Mary Sue and Jim. > >Rand (rooting bemusedly for one big pot, unoccupied) > > >>Dear Rand, >> >>Ferrarias have the reputation for pulling themselves down very deeply so >>I'd also recommend a large pot. I'll look through my archives and see if >>there is anything I can find from the past and will send it to you privately. >> >>Mary Sue >> >>_______________________________________________ >>pbs mailing list >>pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From jshields104@insightbb.com Sat Oct 4 12:29:50 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031004085431.026a1a10@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Databases Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 11:28:41 -0500 They say that the best software to use for a given job is the program you already know how to use. That applies to keeping a database of your bulb collection too. Some people just use MS Word or a text editor and keep the records in one long text file. It is possible to search such a file, and you can always insert extra notes at any point it. It's a snap to print out. It is also extremely inelegant for handling large amounts of data. Filmaker Pro is a fine database, and I believe it can import and export Excel files. It is capable of relational data handling, with a given file containing multiple tables related to each other through key fields. The important thing is to keep records of your bulb collection. I start with a written-on-paper entry, then eventually copy the notebook entries into my database on the computer. I'm only about one year behind in entering the data into the computer. Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Sat Oct 4 12:45:58 2003 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: databases Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 09:44:50 -0700 Hi all, Arnold's suggestion of db topic is a good one. I imagine most of us keep track of plants and/or bulbs for some purpose whether we grow in ground or pots. Jim's reminder about sharing info with others is good. Apple users have only about 15% of the market and their programs are not intended for cross-platform sharing, like MicroSoft programs are. So if you don't care about sharing info, it won't matter which program/platform you use. I have used Excel myself for perhaps going on 20 years now. I don't use all the features because I don't need them all but I use a lot of them. As for the automatic functions Jane spoke of, you need to devote the time to learing a bit about any program you want to use. This includes looking at the drop down menus, particularly the menu marked TOOLS then OPTIONS. If you go through each tab and just read what the boxes say and notice whether or not they are checked, you can set your Excel to do what you want, and to not do what you don't want. Failing success with this, probably half of the robins here use Excel and are always happy to answer some questions privately. There must be 100 different spreadsheets I have designed with Excel that I use very frequently. And I make new ones all the time to keep track of a variety of things. I even use it to make flow charts. If you take the time to learn how to NAME cells and groups of cells, it makes generating reports and doing sorts easier. It is very flexible. If Mary Sue makes room on the WIKI for some sample plant/bulb db spreadsheets, she will let us know, and I will be happy to hang parts of two or three that I have used for plants, bulbs, and gardening in general. Cathy Craig EA your Essential Advisor From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat Oct 4 12:49:08 2003 Message-Id: <3F7EFA02.3040302@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: New Member/Ferraria crispa Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 12:49:06 -0400 Rand: I am a bit confused about your dilemma. You stated that the ferraria bulbs were on a Mediterranean cycle and you were trying to convert them. Is it temperature, season or day length that is the problem. I would guess that the Mediterranean cycle is only different in temperature and day length for you. I have some South African bulbs that we got as a group order from South Africa and I am converting them to my ( New Jersey) seasonal schedule. Arnold From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Sat Oct 4 13:08:37 2003 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: Xmas coming Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 10:07:28 -0700 Hi all, At the risk of annoying any of you who are dreading Christmas, I would like once again to remind you that I subscribe to John Bryan's monthly newsletter and it makes a very nice gift to give another fellow gardener. There are always little historical tidbits, ruminations on his tour of (garden) duty in UK and on the continent of Europe, what to do in the garden this month, notes on roses, lawns, shrubs, annuals, perennials, trees, and bulbs of course. Some notes on tours he is putting together and a book review or two. In the Sept issue was a sentence on the origin of the name wallflower: commonly called wallflowers because they were frequently seen growing on [out of] walls in England. If it weren't for this newsletter, I would forget half of what I need to do each month. Annual subscription is $30 and well worth every dollar. In addition, he will answer any and all calls and/or emails with questions about plants/bulbs/gardening etc. I often call and email him about tree problems, how to propagate particular plants, whether to discard certain plants or try and keep them over, and so on. He is always most polite and always has the answer. Excellent resource. Full value for one's money, imo. What other gift can you give a fellow gardener that will last 12 months? Please don't clog the Forum, email John privately at: JohnBryan@worldnet.att.net Cathy Craig EA your Essential Advisor From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat Oct 4 13:07:57 2003 Message-Id: <3F7EFE6C.2090807@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Colchicums Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 13:07:56 -0400 Two more for the collection http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_Dick_Trotter_9.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_procurrens_2.JPG Arnold New Jersey From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Oct 4 14:18:55 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031004111727.00bb19b0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Databases Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 11:18:47 -0700 Jim SHields noted, >Filemaker Pro is a fine database, and I believe it can import and export Excel files. It is capable >of relational data handling, with a given file containing multiple tables related to each other >through key fields. True, and it can also export to (and I think import from, though I haven't tried it) Word documents, a feature I have used, for instance, when I was producing the catalog for the NARGS seedlist. Jane McGary From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Oct 4 19:01:40 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031004155359.00b744f8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Calostemma purpureum Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 16:00:41 -0700 Some years ago I grew a number of plants of Calostemma purpureum, an Australian coastal amaryllid, from seed and have been keeping them in a sort of solarium where I grow tender bulbs and house plants of various sorts. This summer I moved all the plants that I could out onto my covered deck, and having given the "greenhouse" a good cleaning, I am now going to move them back indoors. The Calostemmas put on a lot of growth over the summer and were watered moderately all season along with the other plants near them. It seems to me they haven't been dormant for quite a while. I just looked them up in several reference books and learned that their dormant period is summer -- but they didn't get a dormancy this year. They still look quite lively, with erect, glossy leaves, not like bulbs that are wanting to go dormant. Which would be better: dry them off now, when it's not possible to give the dormant bulbs a warm period (even indoors); or keep them moist and possibly growing through the winter? Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From roberth6@mac.com Sun Oct 5 07:12:14 2003 Message-Id: From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Calostemma purpureum Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:12:15 -0000 Hi Jane, Calostemma grow as a summer dormant plant for me - even though we get summer rainfall it is usually not heavy and persistent enough to have any great effect on the garden or the potting mix of exposed bulbs. After reading your posting I have revisited an article by Robert Gibson in an Australian Native Plants publication and thought it would be of interest to quote his thoughts on cultivation. "Calostemma purpureum is an easy plant to cultivate and propogate.It grows easily in standard potting mix in a full-length plastic pot at least 15cm accross, and grows in most garden soils. Given their bulbous nature they respond readily to changes in soil moisture levels. In dry conditions the plants become completely dormant and all above ground growth dies away. The bulbs readily produce new growth when the soil becomes moist, with a flush of new leaves and, periodically, flowers triggered by at least some periodic heavy watering. Leaves will survive for several months provided the soil or potting mix remains moist. They occur naturally in areas that receive light winter frosts, which they usually survive, however, this species is probably best thought of as a summer growing bulb. " They survive frost here to -2C and I am sure much colder in Canberra where Paul Tyerman grows them and reported some interesting colour varieties from Canberra Botanical Garden where they would be on a summer dormant cycle. The images of these colour varieties are on the wiki. Jim Lycos grows them in Sydney where the rainfall pattern is different so may tell us how they grow there. Jane, it sounds as though it may be worth drying off your plants for winter to see whether spring / summer watering stimulates flowering. Cheers, Rob in Tasmania Zone 9 equivalent. From sheila1@iinet.net.au Sun Oct 5 08:59:40 2003 Message-Id: <017801c38b40$8840c5e0$b7ae3bcb@Burrow> From: "sheilab" Subject: Visit to South Africa TOW Part 2 Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 20:59:36 +0800 Dear Mary Sue, thankyou so much for everything you wrote about your trip. It made wonderful reading. Thankyou Bob for your beautiful images. Regards Sheila Perth From: "Mary Sue Ittner" Well that's it. I feel a bit like a rocket that shot out, burned brightly, and is now fading. Writing all this has taken enormous time and energy. A lot of you asked me to tell about this trip and there was so much I learned I wanted to share. I hope you all have enjoyed my reports. From msittner@mcn.org Sun Oct 5 11:05:02 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031005074625.01aa75f0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Hesperantha revision Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 07:51:56 -0700 Dear All, Julian Slade announced to the Australian list that Dr Peter Goldblatt has published his synoptic review of Hesperantha and gave this link for a review. http://apt.allenpress.com/aptonline/?request=get-abstract&issn=0026-6493&vol ume=090&issue=03&page=0390 I am sure this won't wrap for many of you so you will have to cut and paste the whole address into your Browser. I couldn't get that to work for me, but it just could have been my browser. I did find it by going to http://apt.allenpress.com and then doing the search and putting in Hesperantha and the Annals of the Missouri Botanical Garden and got it that way. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Sun Oct 5 11:29:19 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031005074536.01b1b5a0@mail.mcn.org> From: "Brian Whyer" (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Message signatures Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 08:20:41 -0700 Hi Mary Sue Could I please request that you ask contributors to give some idea of where they are writing from, so we have an indication of climate and season. It is very difficult for those of us outside the western US to guess what someone means when they say something like "Brunsvigia grandiflora grows well in my climate". I don't really care how it is done, e.g. name, zone, city, country, or something much less formal. Some members give an indication every time, others rarely or never. Many thanks, in anticipation Brian e.g. Brian Whyer, zone 8'ish, Buckinghamshire, UK Or Brian Whyer, -5C min, SEast UK Hi All, I have redirected Brian's message to me to the whole list. His suggestion is a good one and one that I've made before and one that is listed on the instructions for the list. I sometimes do it and sometimes not, especially if I'm not writing about my garden. Since I write a lot of emails to non-garden folks I haven't wanted a default signature with this information. But then I sometimes forget to add it for the list so I am guilty too. I agree that it would be very helpful to add in your signature something about where you live so others will better be able to understand your answer. New people are joining our list all the time so even if you have told about yourself and written about your garden they will not have that information. I am sure the members of this list from the western United States need this information just as much as every one else because we have a very diverse list. I know that we have people from all over the United States and at least these countries: Argentina, Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Italy Netherlands, New Zealand, South Africa (winter and summer rainfall), Sweden, United Kingdom. There may be other countries represented with some of our lurkers since the country code isn't always in the email address. So please everyone identify yourself in your signature when you post regardless of whether you have done it before, especially if you are writing about your garden or your experiences. Could we have discussion about what information people most want listed? Thanks. Mary Sue From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Oct 5 11:23:56 2003 Message-Id: <3F80378C.4050203@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: A SYNOPTIC REVIEW OF THE AFRICAN GENUS HESPERANTHA (IRIDACEAE: CROCOIDEAE) Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:23:56 -0400 The abstract http://apt.allenpress.com/aptonline/?request=get-abstract&issn=0026-6493&volume=090&issue=03&page=0390 Arnold From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Sun Oct 5 10:49:32 2003 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: New Member/Ferraria crispa Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:49:14 -0400 Hi Arnold: >Rand: > >I am a bit confused about your dilemma. You stated that the >ferraria bulbs were on a Mediterranean cycle and you were trying to >convert them. Is it temperature, season or day length that is the >problem. Maybe all the above ... I have never grown Ferraria crispa before and know little about them. My immediate concern is, because they are sprouting, to get them potted. I have done that for the ones showing signs of growth, but there are others that are not sprouting and I am going to try and keep them dormant for as long as they will allow as it would be much easier to grow them over the summer out of doors. >I would guess that the Mediterranean cycle is only different in >temperature and day length for you. I have some South African bulbs >that we got as a group order from South Africa and I am converting >them to my ( New Jersey) seasonal schedule. I, eventually, hope to be able to do this also with mine, hopefully without any casualties. Jim Shields and Mary Sue have been a great help getting me started, the latter sending me archived posts which discuss this very thing. Thanks to all, Rand From msittner@mcn.org Sun Oct 5 14:20:46 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031005102402.01ac7f00@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Topics of the Week Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:17:50 -0700 Dear All, There are a number of people who have promised topic of the week introductions for me sometime, but have not confirmed when they will be ready. So I have looked over my list of suggested topics to come up with some for the rest of the month that will not require a long introduction. Hopefully you all will help out by participating. And hopefully some of those introductions will be ready for the next month. I decided it was also time for me to make a list of everything we have talked about so far. That helps me be sure I am not introducing a topic already discussed. Some time I will make a Wiki page for this as well so that people can easily figure out where to look in the archives for these topics. So here they are so far: November 2002 Growing from Seed Difficult Seeds December 2002 Ornithogalum Favorite Books Digital Photography of Plants and subsequent manipulation Favorite Urls Favorite Urls-List members web sites January 2003 Triteleia Brunsvigia Bulbs for Pacific Northwest Gardens Eremurus (Informal Choice) February 2003 Crocus Species in the Garden Roscoea Schizostylis/Hesperantha a confused genus British Native bulbs and their allies March 2003 Allium Favorite Sources of Bulbs and Seed Bulbs for Mediterranean Gardens Rhodophiala Coping with Cold (Bulbs for frozen soil) April 2003 Growing Tender Bulbs in Cold Climates Babiana Bulbs for Continental climates, Upper Midwest Nerine May 2003 Vegetative Propagation Muscari Favorite Bulbs for Shade Dichelostemma June 2003 Species Lilies Bulbs for Texas Brodiaea Favorite Bulb Combinations Dwarf Alstroemeria July 2003 Albuca Dahlia species Woody Irids Memory Bulbs August 2003 Bulbs that flower without leaves Eucomis Arisaema Unexpected Reappearing Bulbs September 2003 Bulbs with Surprising Hardiness Shy Bloomers/Supposedly Shy Bloomers Tigridia IBSA Symposium 2003/Visit to South Africa Here are the ones for the rest of October: Landscaping with Bulbs Companion Plants to Bulbs Fertilizers Bulbs that can be converted to another cycle Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Oct 5 16:30:24 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031005132840.00b72660@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Biarum davisii Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 13:30:01 -0700 I have posted on the wiki a photo taken today of Biarum davisii: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Biarum_davisii.jpg A description of these plants and their cultivation is on the "Photographs and Information" page for Biarum on the wiki. I hope some of the tubers I sent out this summer are flowering as well as these, but if not, patience and a really hot summer will help. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Oct 5 17:11:10 2003 Message-Id: <3F8088ED.1080306@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Crocus, Colchicum and Arisaema fruit Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 17:11:09 -0400 All taken today. The C. banaticus if the first crocus to flower. I will send the seeds of the arisaema to the BX/SX when they ripen. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colch._autum._alboplenum_1.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_E.A.Bowles_3.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_kotschyi_3.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Crocus_banaticus_4JPG.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Arisaema_Tortusoum_fruit1.JPG Arnold New Jersey From dells@voicenet.com Mon Oct 6 06:39:08 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 44 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 06:38:26 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 44" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Jane McGary: BULBS/CORMS: 1. Leucojum nicaeense 2. Oxalis purpurea 'Garnet' Deep wine-red foliage, bright pink flowers. 3. Gillesia sp. 4. Arum concinnatum 5. Dichelostemma ida-maia 6. Notholirion thomsonianum 7. Romulea bulbocodium ssp. nivalis (Mediterranean). Small but bright bicolored flowers borne in profusion. 8. Scilla mauretanica From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Landscaping with Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 08:11:29 -0700 Dear All, The topic of the week this week is Landscaping with Bulbs. Hopefully Judy Glattstein will post something since she has a book on this topic in process. When we had our Regional Topics: Bulbs for Pacific Northwest Gardens Bulbs for Mediterranean Gardens Bulbs for Continental climates, Upper Midwest Bulbs for Texas some of you wrote about bulbs that were good choices for growing in the ground in your areas. But we never heard from Australia, the northeastern United States (except for Mark's discussion on Alliums), the southern states, non Mediterranean gardens in Europe, etc. So this is an opportunity for all the rest of you to share what bulbs you have found make good landscaping plants. For those who have already told in detail about your gardens you might want to remind us with your favorite five bulbs for landscaping. I hope a lot of people will contribute to this topic, even some of you who are new. It's as easy as listing five favorites from your garden. That wouldn't take much time. Please include in your signature or your post something about where you live to make this information useful. Thanks. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From dells@voicenet.com Mon Oct 6 13:50:32 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 44 CLOSED Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 13:49:50 -0400 It all went faster than a speeding bullet !! And supplies were small. Packages will go out before the end of the week. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From paige@hillkeep.ca Mon Oct 6 16:14:08 2003 Message-Id: <011001c38c46$6de61360$1400000a@paige> From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: Fw: [pbs] Landscaping with Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:14:07 -0700 Dear All: We've seen Crocus and other small bulbs naturalized in greenswards. Click here to view the most beautiful presentation of naturalized Tulipa that I have ever seen. http://www.hillkeep.ca/bulbs%20tulipa.htm They're in the garden of my friend Jim Swayne, who lives in eastern Washington state, USA, where winters are cold and dry and summers are hot and dry. He gets 8-20" of rain a year. This is perfect for Tulipa and many other Central Asian bulbs, and makes it sensible to grow a xeric lawn of Buffalo grass, as he has done. I have other pictures of Jim's tulip lawn, but he's away, so I can't ask his permission to publish them right now. Bulbs that tolerate a wetter winter do very well with us here in southwestern BC; I hope to have time later to post about them, too. Paige Woodward on top of Chilliwack Mountain in southwest British Columbia Canada wet Zone 6 www.hillkeep.ca paige@hillkeep.ca From jshields104@insightbb.com Mon Oct 6 18:48:44 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031006173706.026ca550@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Landscaping with Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 17:48:25 -0500 Hi all, I'm not really into landscaping, but whatever one does, the result is some sort of landscape, good or bad. For instance: I planted about 1000 Narcissus bulbs in clusters of 5 to 7 bulbs in grassy areas about 4 or 5 years ago. They are actually in two swaths, one on each side of my property. One is between the line fence and our gravel lane going to the nursery in back. It must be about 8 to 10 feet wide and 50 to 75 feet long. The other swath is of similar dimensions but runs diagonally in front of an open line of trees and shrubs from the front corner of our property toward the corner of our house. They look very nice when in bloom, and we do not cut the grass and weeds in those areas until the foliage has started to yellow off. I don't see much increase in the bulbs so far. I assume this is due to inadequate fertilizer and excessive competition from grass. Right now we have colchicums in bloom, many of them naturalized in the grass too. I think they are particularly attractive that way, but again we don't mow in those areas until the foliage yellows off in July each year. This is a serious disadvantage to naturalizing bulbs in lawn areas, no matter what species of bulbs you are using. The tall grass and weeds look pretty lousy in June and July. Does anyone have some advice for future naturalizing projects? Regards,] Jim Shields in central Indiana At 01:14 PM 10/6/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Dear All: > >We've seen Crocus and other small bulbs naturalized in greenswards. Click >here to view the most beautiful presentation of naturalized Tulipa that I >have ever seen. http://www.hillkeep.ca/bulbs%20tulipa.htm > >They're in the garden of my friend Jim Swayne, who lives in eastern >Washington state, USA, where winters are cold and dry and summers are hot >and dry. He gets 8-20" of rain a year. This is perfect for Tulipa and >many other Central Asian bulbs, and makes it sensible to grow a xeric lawn >of Buffalo grass, as he has done. > >I have other pictures of Jim's tulip lawn, but he's away, so I can't ask his >permission to publish them right now. > >Bulbs that tolerate a wetter winter do very well with us here in >southwestern >BC; I hope to have time later to post about them, too. > >Paige Woodward >on top of Chilliwack Mountain >in southwest British Columbia >Canada >wet Zone 6 > >www.hillkeep.ca >paige@hillkeep.ca > > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon Oct 6 18:59:16 2003 Message-Id: <006c01c38c5d$864a0170$01322ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: ixia viridiflora Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:59:40 +0100 hi all Does anyone know how hardy Ixia viridiflora is? Or to what zone it is hardy? I've just been given some corms and dont know what to do with them. If they are for pot culture what medium do they need to be in? thanks Mark Northern Ireland zone8 From mrgoldbear@yahoo.com Mon Oct 6 19:52:35 2003 Message-Id: <20031006234331.52030.qmail@web20509.mail.yahoo.com> From: David Sneddon Subject: Landscaping with Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Howdy, First a quick introduction. My name is David Sneddon, I live on the Central Coast, a coastal region around Gosford city 80 Km North of Sydney, Australia. It's zone 9/10 subtropical here. My primary interest with bulbs (and those used in landscaping my garden) are the bulbs for warm climates and especially the Amaryllids. I like Crinums, Nerines, Amaryllis belladonna, Hymenocallis, Gladdys, Kniphofias and many more which won't fit into a quick intro. I also have as a front feature garden what I call my winter garden which is where my magnolia grows with lots of daffodils and freesia. This is framed with lavender and a leucospermum. I got started into bulbs about 8 months ago when considering the plants to use around my new house, which is not big. I love cottage gardens so my first question was how can I use bulbs in a cottage style garden. These go great because everything can be crowded and run a little riot. Also salvia's and other perennials or annuals can cover up somewhat the flopping bulb leaves as they die back. Outside of my garden I find the history, tradition and sociology with bulbs really facinating especially with respect to bulbs like Amaryllis Belladonna and Bidwells crosses etc, Hippeastrum species and so on. I enjoy driving around the Central Coast and Hunter Valley regions visiting old sites and talking with folk at market stalls. I enjoy reading the PBS lists and especially the NERINE TOW (Hamish etc.) and articles by Les Hannibal. Regards, David. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search From c-mueller@tamu.edu Mon Oct 6 20:14:35 2003 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: Landscaping with Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 19:13:56 -0500 Mary Sue, in describing what grew where, said, "The topic of the week this week is Landscaping with Bulbs. When we had our Regional Topics.... some of you wrote about bulbs that were good choices for growing in the ground in your areas. But we never heard from Australia, the northeastern United States (except for Mark's discussion on Alliums), the southern states, non Mediterranean gardens in Europe, etc. So this is an opportunity for all the rest of you to share what bulbs you have found make good landscaping plants. For those who have already told in detail about your gardens you might want to remind us with your favorite five bulbs for landscaping....." Those of you who have access to the current issue of Neil Sperry's Gardens magazine could possibly get ideas from an article I wrote on 'Five Top Bulbs for Texas' meaning, recurring bulbs, not throw aways. Actually, it increased to Six Bulbs because Philippine lilies just couldn't be left out! But, correspondents, please tell us your town and state, or some details of where you garden such as how cold it gets there, or how much of a hot summer, little rainfall, too much rainfall, etc. you have to cope with, so that we readers can adjust your situation to ours! Cynthia W. Mueller College Station, Texas Zone 9b-9 (And, yes, Texas weather is hellish!) _______________________________________________ From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon Oct 6 20:22:40 2003 Message-Id: <008801c38c69$2a7f33e0$01322ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Landscaping with Bulbs--TOW Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:23:00 +0100 only five favourites!? I'm not too sure on the title word landscaping but I'll tell you about by main bulb garden. I have 3 raised beds 18" high made from broken paving stones. In these are my Galanthus collection too many to mention but do have a list if anyone wants to see it. The beds are edged with hardy Geraniums mainly cinereums and sanguiniums and Ranunculaus ficaria cultivars. Also in these beds I have dwarf species and cultivars of Narcissus, Crocus and small species Tulips. These beds all get full sun, when we get in from 0900 until 1800 during late spring and summer. The beds are filled with South African annuals during the summer. An alpine trough 3x2 feet houses more Galanthus, small Colchicums, Trilliums and Cyclamen. A peat bed which doesnt get sun until 1500 or after is home to Colchicums, Trilliums, Erythroniums, Eranthis and other non bulbous plants. A new bed is in the pipeline and should be finished before Christmas, I hope. It will be a scree and rock crevice bed for bulbs which need very good drainage. I think that about covers my main garden. Very soon I will have an up to date list of all bulbs I have in the beds for those who want to see it. The back garden is another story nothing to do with the TOW but I'll let you know anyway. It is home to c200 hardy Geraniums. Mark Northern Ireland zone 8 where we just had the warmest Jan-Sept since records began in 1659, driest August since 1659, warmest summer day (32C/89.6F) since 1659, the warmest September since 1659 and the coldest September night (-2C/28.4F) since 1659 ...... roll on 2004 From lynelda@netspeed.com.au Mon Oct 6 20:26:55 2003 Message-Id: From: "Lyn Edwards" Subject: Landscaping with Bulbs--TOW Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:26:58 +1000 Landscaping with bulbs? where to start? I guess the most important bulb landscaping in my garden is the planting along the front boundary of my suburban home.Due to regulations which don't allow front fences to be built here I needed something to protect my garden from damage caused by children on their way to and from school, straying dogs and the local milkman cutting corners over my garden. The choice of a closely planted "hedge" of blue and white varieties of Agapanthus has proved very successful. By planting large clumps of daffodils,Gladiolus nanus varieties,Kniphofia Christmas Cheer and Ixias behind the Agapanthus and leaving room for some seasonal perennials and ground covers this has been very successful.The Agapanthus look so cool and fresh in the middle of summer and the rest are so welcome in late winter and spring.All the more as these have to hold their own with the not 1 but 2 Fraxinus oxycarpa trees planted as street trees by the powers that be. If I could get my hands on those reponsible for that choice I'd tell them what I thought, it wouldn't be pretty. In my sheltered back garden I grow clumps of woodland type cold climate bulbs in the shelter of my small collection of weeping Japanese maples, Crabapples and deciduous Magnolias, that is Galanthus,Crocuses,Trilliums, Fritillarias,Erythroniums,Eranthis and as many Arisaemas as I can get. These give me great pleasure in season and once they have died down the trees take over and shelter them from the worst of the summer heat. I hope this has given some idea of how I have tried to use some of my favourite bulbs in the landscape, Lyn Edwards Canberra approx Zone 8 U.S.D.A- hot dry summers and cold frosty winters From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Oct 6 21:41:39 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031006183934.00bcfe50@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: ixia viridiflora Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:41:35 -0700 Mark Smyth asked, Does anyone know how hardy Ixia viridiflora is? Or to what zone it is hardy? I expect this will help Mark, who is in Ireland, which is very warm compared to where many of us live. I have some bulbs of Ixia viridiflora in a planter on my patio, and they have survived at least as low as 25 degrees F (about minus 4 C) in that situation, very wet in winter. They flowered quite well this summer. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From arnold@nj.rr.com Mon Oct 6 22:43:10 2003 Message-Id: <3F82283D.3060108@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Landscaping with Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 22:43:09 -0400 I did something similar to Jim. I planted 2500 narcissus in small groups in ivy that surrounds some large beech trees. The chore was to get the bulbs through the ivy roots and then through the roots of the trees. I was a great amount of work, three to four arduous hours each weekend for five to six week. I planted three varieties ( Pueblo, Feb. Gold and Thalia) that span the entire spring and the colors seem to change from yellow to yellow and white and to all white. Each year the display gets better and the foliage has a chance to ripen prior to the trees leafing out. When I started I soon realized that I needed a system to make sure the bulbs were being equally distributed in the planting area. I created a series of grids 8 feet by 8 feet and knew I had to plant at least 250 to 300 bulbs in each grid. This worked out very well. I randomly placed two hundred of each variety in a large bucket and reached in and planted as I went. I used a bulb auger attached to a power drill to dig the hole and dropped in three to four bulbs. Arnold New Jersey From theafricangarden@blueyonder.co.uk Tue Oct 7 02:53:12 2003 Message-Id: <000601c38c9f$3f80cc00$7e89eb50@davidfen> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: ixia viridiflora Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:50:08 +0100 >>>>survived at least as low as 25 degrees F (about minus 4 C) Jane, Thanks for that, I'll plant mine outside this afternoon. Ixia viridiflora has consistantly been one of those plants I love / hate to grow. It survives, but doesn't do much, even after three years the corm is still no bigger than a few millimeters. I for one didn't think it was that hardy, anyway here goes. Will tell you how it does later. Best Wishes, Dave (Plymouth, UK, zone 9, min. -5C) David Fenwick NCCPG National Plant Heritage Collections of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens Estover Plymouth Devon England PL6 8TW Websites www.theafricangarden.com www.crocosmiaheritage.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 29/09/03 From jamievande@freenet.de Tue Oct 7 03:28:59 2003 Message-Id: <003801c38ca4$8e740840$6402a8c0@celeron> From: "Jamie" Subject: TOW - Bulbs in the North Euroscape Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:28:05 +0200 Jamie Vande Cologne Germany Zone 8 Maintaining the precious treasures in pots eventually leads to wishing to see more in the landscape, hoping they will overwinter and establish, but I find there are really only a handful of bulbs available at a price most can afford, that are also excellent landscape plants in wet, North European gardens. It is getting better each season, but it is clear why certain bulbs have set themselves apart with their ease of culture and ability to mix. Alliums are the first that are, for myself, indespensible. A. hollandicum and it's offspring are one of the best, along with A. christophii, which I have planted between roses and other shrubby perennials. Blue is such a great accent to roses! A. giganteum is a good doer for less sunny locations, clumping nicely in a few years. We mentioned Frittilaria imperialis earlier this year, and I still find this one of the most wonderful early bulbs in the garden. For many problematic, but I find it dependable. Personal bests are F. imp. Rubra and F. imp. lutea. Other forms have been less successful. Many smaller Tulipa are well established in my garden, such as T. tarda, T. clusiana, T. linfolia, T. biflora, T. batalinii, T. humilis, T.saxitalis, T. urumiensis and T. sylvestris. I have them tucked between stones and along paths. Simply wonderful, wonderfully simple! My best shade geophytes are Cyclamen hederifolium, Arum maculatum (native) and Narcissus (summer shade). A. maculatum is all over my neighbourhood and I just had to move a few in! The clumps of purple-spotted, soft leaves are wonderful. I have a unknown Ariseum growing between the Geranium, which is perfect. Wish I know what it was! Purple-spotted stems with 5-7 pinnifed umbrellas standing 40cm high. A personal triumph! with no name.... Now that Autumn is here, I really appreciate the patches of Crocus bantanicus, C. ochroleucus and C. speciosus. Much better than C. sativus! As much as I love Colchicum, the seasonal rains and slugs just do them in! Still grow them, mind you! What does not do well for me is Zantedeschia (frost gets it before flowering), Eucomis, Lilium (except L. Black Beauty, which is fabulous and easy) and most other Frittilarias. Just so you know! OK, this is not just five, more like five genera, but they have settled into my tiny landscape so well, I've almost forgotten about them, until they bloom, when I think what a wonderful addition they are. From dejager@bulbargence.com Tue Oct 7 05:17:33 2003 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Landscaping with Bulbs--TOW Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:12:34 +0200 Dear All, A very interesting subject, many of our larger customers use our bulbs for landscaping. They have several distinations in the garden landscape: Colonising naturel areas: such as wooded areas Cyclamen, Anemones, Arums, 'wild lawns" (Narcissus tazetta italicus, Gladiolus italicus, communis, tristis, Leucojum, Freesia, Shaded and wet areas: Dietes grandiflora and irioides Borders along entry roads or paths: Tulbaghia, Zephyranthes candida, Agapanthus, Scilla peruviana Dry slopes: Urginea, Asphodelus, Eremurus Seasonally wet areas: Zephyranthes, Hedychium Hedges: Dietes bicolor In Capetown(Waterside) I saw a big row of this species to protect a side walk. Covering fences, hedges or other vegetation: Anredera(also good groundcover), Tropeaolum, Gloriosa etc One can go on naming the numerous habitats in a garden and each one will certainly have a bulb species adapted to it. The topic of associating bulb species is certainly very related with choosing bulb species for a given garden habitat. The most difficult species to place in a natural(mediterranean)à habitat are the winterdomant summergrowers. Very often the humid conditions during cause rotting. Kind regards Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence South of France From annejim@acay.com.au Tue Oct 7 08:47:11 2003 Message-Id: <3F82B6E0.9090800@acay.com.au> From: Jim Lykos Subject: Calostemma purpureum Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 22:51:44 +1000 Hi Jane and Rob, Rob's growing conditions in Tasmania are probably the most comparable with your own. Complicating the information that Rob has given, is the very wide distribution of this species in the semi arid and arid interior of the Eastern states of Australia down into the southern part of South Australia a span of over 1,500 miles. in the northern parts of the distribution rainfall is heavy in summer, driest in winter , while in the southern part of its distribution it faces winter rain and very dry summers. Populations of this species have generally adapted to these conditions - so that the NSW Calostemma's tend to go dormant during early spring and then are revived and flower once a substantial mid-summer rain storm occurs. In South Australia, they will go dormant early in early or late spring (soon after ground moisture dries up) - and they usually wait until the first late summer storms or autumn rainfall before they flower- and autumn flowering is the most typical flowering period. In my own collection I also have found Calostemma purpureum from South Australian to be the quickest to go into dormancy in dry weather. As Rob mentioned its usually hot and dry soil conditions that initiate hibernation, and hot wet conditions after a rest period that initiate the flowering cycle. In your conditions they appear to have missed the spring and summer heat triggers. In the Australian outback in Spring and Summer it becomes really hot and dry - 30+ for at least 4 months, and these conditions would be most approximated in some regions of Texas and California. To optimise flowering I think it would be best to stop watering them in mid spring, allow the pots to have some direct sunlight during summer and allow watering by natural rainfall or restart watering in the last month of summer. Calostemma luteum on the other hand is much more associated with the flood plains of the interior of Eastern Australia, and grows more commonly in fertile clay flats. It is even more responsive to rainfall in breaking its dry dormancy periods - and it typically flowers in mid to late autumn and in early spring ( April, May and September). Good Calostemming Cheers Jim Lykos Blue Mountains Australia Zone 9b From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Tue Oct 7 10:49:02 2003 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476D33AF1@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Landscaping with Bulbs--TOW Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:28:45 -0500 We've got some beautiful examples of Colchicum coming up through various groundcovers and between clumps of some of the smaller growing Pennisetum grasses ... sort of a 'prairiesque' effect but quite effective. I would recommend replacing your turf with prairie plants (or plants that duplicate the growth and flowering habits of prairie plants). The daffs will be up and flower before the prairie plants start to get too large and the Colchicums will elongate their tubes to 'peak' through the smaller statured plants. The effect is very ornamental and provides for season long interest (year round really if you don't remove the dried grasses, etc. until just before the daffs start to appear. Wished you and Irma lived closer. We have some beautiful examples currently in the Garden. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: J.E. Shields [mailto:jshields104@insightbb.com] Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 5:48 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Landscaping with Bulbs--TOW Hi all, I'm not really into landscaping, but whatever one does, the result is some sort of landscape, good or bad. For instance: I planted about 1000 Narcissus bulbs in clusters of 5 to 7 bulbs in grassy areas about 4 or 5 years ago. They are actually in two swaths, one on each side of my property. One is between the line fence and our gravel lane going to the nursery in back. It must be about 8 to 10 feet wide and 50 to 75 feet long. The other swath is of similar dimensions but runs diagonally in front of an open line of trees and shrubs from the front corner of our property toward the corner of our house. They look very nice when in bloom, and we do not cut the grass and weeds in those areas until the foliage has started to yellow off. I don't see much increase in the bulbs so far. I assume this is due to inadequate fertilizer and excessive competition from grass. Right now we have colchicums in bloom, many of them naturalized in the grass too. I think they are particularly attractive that way, but again we don't mow in those areas until the foliage yellows off in July each year. This is a serious disadvantage to naturalizing bulbs in lawn areas, no matter what species of bulbs you are using. The tall grass and weeds look pretty lousy in June and July. Does anyone have some advice for future naturalizing projects? Regards,] Jim Shields in central Indiana At 01:14 PM 10/6/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Dear All: > >We've seen Crocus and other small bulbs naturalized in greenswards. Click >here to view the most beautiful presentation of naturalized Tulipa that I >have ever seen. http://www.hillkeep.ca/bulbs%20tulipa.htm > >They're in the garden of my friend Jim Swayne, who lives in eastern >Washington state, USA, where winters are cold and dry and summers are hot >and dry. He gets 8-20" of rain a year. This is perfect for Tulipa and >many other Central Asian bulbs, and makes it sensible to grow a xeric lawn >of Buffalo grass, as he has done. > >I have other pictures of Jim's tulip lawn, but he's away, so I can't ask his >permission to publish them right now. > >Bulbs that tolerate a wetter winter do very well with us here in >southwestern >BC; I hope to have time later to post about them, too. > >Paige Woodward >on top of Chilliwack Mountain >in southwest British Columbia >Canada >wet Zone 6 > >www.hillkeep.ca >paige@hillkeep.ca > > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From SheriAnnRicherson@exoticgardening.com Tue Oct 7 10:00:21 2003 Message-Id: <014601c38cdb$57456d00$b600a8c0@sheri> From: "SheriAnnRicherson" Subject: ixia viridiflora Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:59:34 -0500 I finally located seed for some earlier this spring. Has anyone grown this plant from seed? I am wondering about how long it will take to get actual blooms from it. Is there a source where one can purchase flowering size bulbs of this plant? Mine will be greenhouse grown. Thanks, Sheri Do you like gardening? Then visit http://www.exoticgardening.com Do you need a freelance writer, editor, photographer or speaker? Contact Sheri Ann Richerson (765) 674-6167 SheriAnnRicherson@exoticgardening.com http://sheriannricherson.exoticgardening.com From msittner@mcn.org Tue Oct 7 10:56:07 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031007072929.00d545f0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: ixia viridiflora Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 07:54:29 -0700 Hi, Ixia viridiflora has a reputation for being short lived and difficult. It is a very popular flower because of its amazing turquoise color and I expect people who sell it sell out every year. I reread some postings on it from a number of years ago on another list. Some people advised never disturbing the plants after they were potted saying that some corms didn't survive repotting. Some advised a dry dormancy, but at least one person who advised that admitted that corms planted that way only lasted a couple of seasons before they stopped blooming and disappeared. A couple others commented that bulbs they had planted where they got summer water were doing just fine. Someone else suggested maybe that is why people in New Zealand do well because bulbs would be getting year round water. Unlike some of you I don't water most of my winter growing bulbs when they are dormant. Water is precious here and very expensive and our water supply probably comes indirectly from our river. We are encouraged to conserve in summer so there will be enough water left in the river for the fish. Most of my bulbs survive just fine this way and if they don't, I console myself that perhaps they weren't meant for me to grow. But after those stories about Ixia viridiflora I began to make sure it got some summer water and it has bloomed for me every year since. I wouldn't say all the corms bloom, but enough to enjoy. I checked my notes and my Ixia viridiflora bloomed the third year from seed. I first started it in 1995 however and I know lots more about growing from seed now so expect if I did it now it would bloom the second year from seed. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From msittner@mcn.org Tue Oct 7 11:07:05 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031007075523.01b3bcd0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Landscaping with Bulbs--TOW Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 08:05:55 -0700 Dear All, I'm really finding all posts to the topic this week to be very interesting. And I am glad to hear about Australia, European gardens, and other areas we haven't heard from before. I think I left out New Zealand. Will any of our New Zealand members tell us which bulbs can be used for landscaping? I would imagine that the list would be very long. Feel free to discuss as many bulbs as you want. When I said five, I was thinking of those of us who already talked about the bulbs we were growing when we had a regional topic and maybe if I said five that people would feel that was a manageable number and be more inclined to post. If that number is holding you back disregard that suggestion. And Cynthia, aren't you going to tell us those six bulbs you recommended for Texas? Do we have to buy the magazine to find out? Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Oct 7 11:35:57 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Landscaping with Bulbs--TOW Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:35:44 -0500 Dear all; I used to think that narcissus were the totally fool proof landscape bulb for my climate, but have found out slightly differently*. In any case it is still the most reliable, easiest, cheapest and available landscape bulb for my area. Perfectly good acceptable cultivars are sold in garden centers, mass markets, and drug stores every fall, yet I am constantly amazed that it is not in EVERY garden. I live in an area with a major building boom. Houses and developments pop up at an alarming rate. People spend a million dollars on a house and get the standard green meat ball landscape or worse Zero-scaping. Just a few dollars would bring years of joyful bloom in daffodils that multiply and satisfy. So this plea is for you good gardeners to give even your worst black- thumb gardening friends a bag of daffodils of any kind. Plant the bulbs for them if needed. They are available in quantity now. You practically cannot loose. Why wait for Chrsitmas? Surely no one has too many. Best Jim W. * We are subject to late frost and one time, in decades of growing daffodils, a especially hard late freeze totally killed flower stalks and foliage of a couple early varieties, but even so they recovered enough to boom the next spring. This is a rare exception. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Oct 7 11:44:56 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031007084213.00bc45c0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: ixia viridiflora Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 08:44:46 -0700 Sheri asked, >I finally located seed for some [Ixia viridiflora] . Has anyone grown >this plant from seed? I am wondering about how long it will take to get >actual blooms from it. I grew mine from seed and, like most irids, it flowered relatively young -- I believe four years from sowing. The corms do not get very big, as someone else mentioned, but it still manages to produce a stem some 18 inches (45 cm) tall. Mine dry out to some extent in summer, but they get watered now and then during general border sprinkling near their planter. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon (which is, I think, usually much colder than most of Tasmania -- and certainly hotter in midsummer!) From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Tue Oct 7 13:25:05 2003 Message-Id: <20031007172502.59449.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: TOW: Landscaping with Bulbs Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Mary Sue, Only 5 bulbs huh? How about 5 genera? Under these constraints, I would have to say iris, peonies, Muscari, Tulip, and Chionodoxa. Ok, I can't forget one other, lilies. (These are all notes form my aunt's home in Ohio, I will go into So Cal bulbs seperately below) Ok, under these genera I can be a little more specific, right? LOL Iris, well, how do I start? I buy every single pallida I can find, both color forms. THey are nice accents all summer long. The spring fragance they have when planted in mass is quite noticeable. I have a large collection of Japanese, Siberian, German (bearded), dwarf, Luoisiana, and a many misc. other forms such as Spuria, Dutch, English, bucharica, and a reticulata. The Japanese and Siberians are the majority of the summer color. For the rest of the year, I consider then to be texture plants. I have neverseen these in bloom as I am not in Ohio during their bloom time. The German (bearded) forms are the ones that I do get to see every year as they are blooming in May when I am home. Lovely 3 to 4' tall spikes in mostly lavenders and blues. I only wishg these would be more of a foliage piece for the rest of the growing year. Peonies: what is there to say? A garden is not complete without huge mounds of peonies. Tree peonies are a real treat. If anyone out there doesn't have one by now, GET ONE! The flowers, once they mature in 3-5 years, can get tup to 12" across each. Now, who does nto want a trouble free plant in their garden with dinnerplate size flowers???? The cost in the fall is greatly reduced at most garden centers because they do not want to carry them over the winter. They usually have a name or color on the stem at the base somewhere. I just go through and pick out ones I don't have. I think I have over 40 peonies (of differnt kinds) planted all over the yard. Muscari, here I am rather simple. I have only one - armenicaum. I know it is a weed but the color mass display cannot be outdone by ANY bulb that I know of. Tulips. Hum. These are more of an annual but they can creat such gorgeous displays every year. When I get to it, I will post a picture to the wiki of what I planted this year. It is a mass along the front walkway of 500 Tulip 'Maureen' and 400 Hyacinthus 'Woodstock'. It should be a showstopper and I hope I get home in time to see it (I can never get any good pictures out of my family). In the past I have planted masses of tulips everywhere with only a few returning each year. Mostly it is becasue they are sliced up when I plant other things or I pull them out because I want something else there. Chionodoxa. The first sight of spring and such a lovely color. They reseed themselves around pleasntly and take no care at all. Lilies. Who can live without lilies? If this person exists, they would be a very strange person to get to know. I have so many lilies that I can begin to list them here and I am always buying more. I have a weakness for Stargazers and Casablancas. They are old standbys that work everywhere. I am starting to get a wider selection but I am still buying 50-200 stargazers each year. I am trying to concentrate on getting more species. I really want a large area full of formossanum and candida. One lovely combination that I mentioned in my container articles is 'Casa', 'Stargazer', and Pentemon 'Husker Red' with red Paeonia 'Karl Rosenfeldt', Tulipa 'Carnivale', and Hosta 'Patriot'. The reds, pinks, and whites provide color all summer long with foliage and flowers. This fall I went through and did a revamping of the garden. I removed a large area of Louisiana iris, removed huge patches of Calagrostis 'Overdam' and several large clumps of Panicum cvs. To me grasses are a very important part of the garden. Unfortunately in Ohio, grass has become something to put one clump by the mailbox. The reason grass is so important is that mot bulbs that grow in full sun do so in meadows that over overgrown during the summer by grass that provides cover. Since removing things, I have more room for other things to go. I wil incorporate more salvias and other diehard perennials but I want to increase the amount of misc. bulbs that are there. Using perennials as cover is difficult for me since I like to use such large groups of bulbs together. I prefer to simply remove most bulbs and replant the following autumn with more. There are areas the have smaller groups (or survivors) in amungst the perennials. The perennials that are used most often here are daylilies (can never have enough of these either - I just planted out another 12 varieties this spring and 75 plants of 2 varieties this fall), hosta, pestemon, asters, verbenas (planted every spring), and plenty of weeds . I am working on planting more native perennials over the next few years. High Country Gardens and Prairie Nursery Wildflowers has a great selection of drought tolerant natives that are quite hardy. Penstemons, Soidago (goldenrods), and others are a few that I am concentrating on since they come up and cover after my sring bulbs are done and give color from summer all the way past most frosts. An unusual combo that I will be trying this next year is Gloriosa lilies, Penstemon utahensis, Agastache rupestris, Zauschnera 'Orange Carpet', and some coleus varieties. Ok, now in CA. Well, as many of you already know, the possibilities are endless. My choices are Watsonia, Ipheion, Canna, Clivia, and Hippeastrum species. They can all be interplanted with salvias, lavender, rosemary, grasses, daylilies, fuschias, etc. Well, enough of my babbling. I have a lot more favorite bulbs and combinations but I don't want to give away all my secrets or there would be no reason for people to hire me. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Tue Oct 7 14:03:56 2003 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: TOW Landscaping with bulbs Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:02:44 -0700 Hello all, There are a few bulbs that have naturalized quite well here in Southern California. N. Thalia has naturalized wherever I have planted it: on the rather wet, shady north-east side of our yard, also on the hot and dry west side. The more I garden, the more I come to appreciate white flowers. They never clash, always stand out without screaming, show up well at dusk and in the evening dark, always look clean and cheerful. They very gradually increase without benefit of fertilizer and are left to their own devices. One can rely on them to bloom well above the foliage - not true of many other commercial narcissus. The hybrid darwin tulip T. Ollioules (pink and silver) has naturalized in a north bed of very slightly amended clay. They were planted deeply, over a foot, are never fertilized, the bed even though irregated remains pretty dry throughout the year. I planted about a dozen some 4 or 5 years ago and have perhaps 14-16 now that bloom each spring. No indication of the bulbs splitting as yet. Nerine bowdenii (no special selection) has naturallized next to a perennial hollyhock on the shady north-east side (near the N. Thalia). Never disturbed nor fertilized, the clump is a faithful bloomer and seems quite happy even though it gets quite a lot of regular water from the irregation system throughout the year. The common Dutch Hyacinth all seem to naturalize and bloom at top size for many years. They apparently need no chill (they sure aren't getting any here). I plant these about a foot deep and remove the foliage when slightly dessicated (pulls out of the bulb top easily). They also tolerate having their green leaves cut back a bit when I can't stand the mess, and come back just fine the following year. They will eventually split but this seems to take 4 or 5 years before they need replacing. The ones that come back most reliably (per # bulbs planted) is the purple H. Peter Stuyvesant in the relatively dry west parts of the property. Part of Peter's success may be due to the fact I plant more of him than of anything else. The hyacinths will produce full-sized heads for several years before the bulbs split - and so do not seem to 'gradually diminish in flower size'. Leucojum aestivum has naturallized in a dry bed on the north west that sits atop a slope. It increases well each year. One of my favorite things about the L's is that they all bloom at varying times and so the overall display lasts over two or three months. Since the flowers are relatively small, they would be better closer to the house or to an oft-used walk or pathway. That's my five successes. My most lamented failure to date remains the @*#! F. imperialis. I have planted these devils everywhere, in all conditions, at 8 inches to 16 inches deep, in clay soil and in a special planting mixtures (in the holes), have pre-chilled them, not pre-chilled them, and have yet to see one green leaf! ...much less any flowers. This year I have a couple in pots. I roped Mom (Phyllis Flower of the green thumbs) into putting a couple in pots too. Test results this spring. Cathy Craig Pres PBS Maritime zone 9b From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Tue Oct 7 14:06:54 2003 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: TOW Landscaping with bulbs - Arnold Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:05:44 -0700 Arnold wrote: I did something similar to Jim. I planted 2500 narcissus in small groups in ivy that surrounds some large beech trees. ... I created a series of grids 8 feet by 8 feet and knew I had to plant at least 250 to 300 bulbs in each grid. ... I used a bulb auger attached to a power drill to dig the hole and dropped in three to four bulbs. Arnold, aren't the bulbs all on top of one another? Or did you make the holes very wide? Or do they push each other around until they eventually get to be shoulder-to-shoulder do you think? Cathy Craig pres PBS Maritime zone 9b From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Tue Oct 7 14:27:39 2003 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: TOW landscaping with bulbs (Jim W) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:26:28 -0700 Dear all, Jim, you really have a way with words. "Zero scaping" describes major portions of So Cal and certainly my entire street. I have been plying my new next door neighbor with my extra plants and bulbs and he now has a new yard and he seems able to grow everything well. This year WalMart and Home Depot have an extraordinary range of bulbs that heretofore I had to order by mail. They are less than 50cents each (tulips and narcissus) and one can't get them that cheaply anywhere because of the shipping costs. I second Jim's sentiments that we all contribute bulbs to our neighbors. What a great idea! Jim W wrote: [Narcissus] is still the most reliable, easiest, cheapest and available landscape bulb for my area. Perfectly good acceptable cultivars are sold in garden centers, mass markets, ...yet I am constantly amazed that it is not in EVERY garden. ... People spend a million dollars on a house and get the standard green meat ball landscape or worse Zero-scaping. So this plea is for you good gardeners to give even your worst black- thumb gardening friends a bag of daffodils of any kind. Plant the bulbs for them if needed. Cathy Craig EA your Essential Advisor From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Tue Oct 7 20:29:02 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20031008103136.00862970@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: ixia viridiflora Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 10:31:36 +1000 At 07:50 7/10/03 +0100, you wrote: >>>>>survived at least as low as 25 degrees F (about minus 4 C) > >Jane, >Thanks for that, I'll plant mine outside this afternoon. Ixia viridiflora >has consistantly been one of those plants I love / hate to grow. It >survives, but doesn't do much, even after three years the corm is still no >bigger than a few millimeters. I for one didn't think it was that hardy, >anyway here goes. Will tell you how it does later. Dave et al, I responded privately to Mark after his request but given the other interest in it I thought I'd add to the discussion on the list. My Ixia viridiflora do just fine outside here in Canberra, Aus either in pots or in the ground. -8'C most years and do fine in both situations, so it does even colder than the -4'c Jane suggested (in case anyone was feeling that they may be borderline on it surviving for them. I have grown them for a number of years without any hassles, getting flwoers most years. I have been told that these bulbs are relatively short-lived and die out after a time, so keep seedlings coming along to replace. I have not yet had a die out however, now having grown them as mature flwoering plants for something around 5 years or so. I have also harvested seed from them a couple of times and have seedlings coming along. They are just SUCH a cool colour. Another interesting Ixia for those who are interested is 'Amethystina' which is a blue ixia rather than the aquamarine/green colour of viridiflora. The great thing about this variety is that it produces strong upright growth that can stand watering/rain on the flwoers without flopping. For me the main clump gets to around 4ft + high with a LOT of flowers per stem. It starts flowering as the viridifloras are finishing, and is coming to an end as the I. polystachya are starting.. so it nicely fills in the Ixia season. Well worth trying if you don't have it (and can get it of course, not knowing what is available in other countries than Australia). To me, whether in flower or growth, it adds some structure to the garden, sort of like a smaller version of Dierama foliage, very upright and stays that way instead of flopping like most of the Ixias seem to do. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From puppincuff@cox.net Tue Oct 7 22:24:56 2003 Message-Id: <001501c38d43$c7e673c0$738e0544@oc.cox.net> From: "puppincuff" Subject: TOW Landscaping with bulbs Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:27:52 -0700 It's a pity that landscape designers aren't familiar with bulbs. They're the perfect plant to include in landscapes that are already crowded when the landscape crew leaves. I've found Tulip species ( especially chrysantha, clusiana, and saxatilis) to be reliably perennial. Add 'Ice Follies' to the list of good Daffodils. I've made the mistake of planting Crocosmias in irrigated beds; they're too agressive! Also Sinningia tubiflora runs 5 feet per year and tolerates miserable soil. My greatest successes (from my Clints' point of view) have beeb massing Sparaxis tricolor hybrids ( I wish the show were longer) , Hymenocallis littoralis, Alstroemeria hybrids, and Tulbaghis simmleri. Thes are almost evergreen so people don't notice 'holes' where the bulbs are. chuck Schwartz San Clemente, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathy Craig" To: "Forum PBS" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 11:02 AM Subject: [pbs] Re: TOW Landscaping with bulbs Hello all, There are a few bulbs that have naturalized quite well here in Southern California. N. Thalia has naturalized wherever I have planted it: on the rather wet, shady north-east side of our yard, also on the hot and dry west side. The more I garden, the more I come to appreciate white flowers. They never clash, always stand out without screaming, show up well at dusk and in the evening dark, always look clean and cheerful. They very gradually increase without benefit of fertilizer and are left to their own devices. One can rely on them to bloom well above the foliage - not true of many other commercial narcissus. The hybrid darwin tulip T. Ollioules (pink and silver) has naturalized in a north bed of very slightly amended clay. They were planted deeply, over a foot, are never fertilized, the bed even though irregated remains pretty dry throughout the year. I planted about a dozen some 4 or 5 years ago and have perhaps 14-16 now that bloom each spring. No indication of the bulbs splitting as yet. Nerine bowdenii (no special selection) has naturallized next to a perennial hollyhock on the shady north-east side (near the N. Thalia). Never disturbed nor fertilized, the clump is a faithful bloomer and seems quite happy even though it gets quite a lot of regular water from the irregation system throughout the year. The common Dutch Hyacinth all seem to naturalize and bloom at top size for many years. They apparently need no chill (they sure aren't getting any here). I plant these about a foot deep and remove the foliage when slightly dessicated (pulls out of the bulb top easily). They also tolerate having their green leaves cut back a bit when I can't stand the mess, and come back just fine the following year. They will eventually split but this seems to take 4 or 5 years before they need replacing. The ones that come back most reliably (per # bulbs planted) is the purple H. Peter Stuyvesant in the relatively dry west parts of the property. Part of Peter's success may be due to the fact I plant more of him than of anything else. The hyacinths will produce full-sized heads for several years before the bulbs split - and so do not seem to 'gradually diminish in flower size'. Leucojum aestivum has naturallized in a dry bed on the north west that sits atop a slope. It increases well each year. One of my favorite things about the L's is that they all bloom at varying times and so the overall display lasts over two or three months. Since the flowers are relatively small, they would be better closer to the house or to an oft-used walk or pathway. That's my five successes. My most lamented failure to date remains the @*#! F. imperialis. I have planted these devils everywhere, in all conditions, at 8 inches to 16 inches deep, in clay soil and in a special planting mixtures (in the holes), have pre-chilled them, not pre-chilled them, and have yet to see one green leaf! ...much less any flowers. This year I have a couple in pots. I roped Mom (Phyllis Flower of the green thumbs) into putting a couple in pots too. Test results this spring. Cathy Craig Pres PBS Maritime zone 9b _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Nico.Holtzhausen@za.flextronics.com Wed Oct 8 07:05:50 2003 Message-Id: From: "Nico Holtzhausen" Subject: Landscaping with Bulbs Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:03:43 +0200 Hi I suppose it would be a good idea to introduce myself at this point. My name is Nico Holtzhausen, I am one of Mary-Sue's recruits on her visit to South Africa. My wife Jeanette and I live in Cape Town and we have been growing bulbs for about three years (at a very small scale). I would summarize our interest as follows: Firstly to appreciate the bulbs in their natural habitat and to be involved in their conservation, secondly to raise the profile of our indigenous bulbs locally by growing the hardier and commoner species in the garden (landscaping if you want) and thirdly to grow them in pots. Naturally, our focus is on South African natural species, mostly winter-growing, but also summer growing. One of the problems (from a landscapers point of view) with growing our winter-growing bulbs in the garden is their seasonal nature. Planting them on your lawn, which seems like a popular options among the members of the discussion group (maybe everybody is looking for an excuse not to mow the lawn?), seems like an elegant solution here. In Cape Town there is a natural white Sparaxis specie (could be Grandiflora, although the flower looks a bit too small), which does amazingly well at the sides of the roads and in parks. The plants are quite small, about 5cm in height, which seem to help them in their struggle for survival against the insensitive lawn mowers of the council. Just about a month ago, the lawn at one of the sites had been mowed, and right now they are flowering with enthusiasm in mass. A large flowered pink Oxalis specie is another low growing plant that provides wonderful displays on lawns in the Cape Town area. In the beds, there seem to be a number of options as to how to use winter-growing bulbs. Firstly, and the one that you will mostly come across if you read books about indigenous gardening in South Africa, is to use the bulbs in rock gardens. This refers to the waterwise part of your garden which gets no irrigation (i.e. only rain in winter) and which could also contains succulents and optionally rocks. In this type of garden, open soil patches in summer is quite acceptable. This is also the only way to landscape with plants that do not tolerate summer watering. Secondly, the bulbs may be treated as annuals, which imply that they should be removed (and stored for next season) at the end of spring and then replaced with something else for the summer months. Thirdly, they could be inter-planted with other herbaceous perennials or summer growing/winter dormant and/or evergreen bulbs. Kirstenbosch botanical garden (in Cape Town) has some wonderful displays on how these bulbs may be inter-planted. Watsonias and Chasmanthes may for instance be inter-planted with winter dormant or evergreen Agapanthus species. These are just some ideas on using winter-growing species for landscaping. Unfortunately, due to work and other obligations I won't be able to contribute regularly to the list, but I can assure you that I find it very interesting to read about the activities of bulb enthusiast elsewhere in the world. Nico Nico Holtzhausen Software Engineer FLEXTRONICS SA C301 Warehouse Building Black River Park Observatory, 7925 Cape Town, South Africa +27 21 4421240 main +27 21 4421279 direct +27 21 4421264 fax mailto:nico.holtzhausen@za.flextronics.com From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Wed Oct 8 07:56:44 2003 Message-Id: From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: "Bulbs" in the landscape Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:56:31 EDT Pinellia tripartita makes nice clumps and is pleasantly weedy. The hardy Begonia, Begonia grandis ssp. evansiana also does well. Cyclamen hederifolium in all the leaf patterns is wonderful under deciduous shrubs, C. coum not so nice as the leaves crisp up in our winters but is very decorative during fall and early winter in a similar position. One of our favorite combinations is Frit. thunbergii planted along with Hellebore 'Wester Fisk'. The best local display of Daffodils in the landscape is just North of here in Goshen. Hundreds of thousands of naturalized bulbs in the meadows and on an island in a small lake make for a fantastic display visible from the roadside during April and May. Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From mark@marksgardenplants.com Wed Oct 8 10:19:34 2003 Message-Id: <000d01c38da7$2bab3040$b2352ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Ranunculus calandriniodes Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:19:21 +0100 hi all I have just bought two tubers/roots of Ranunculus calandriniodes. Has anyone tried growing these? Thanks for all the input on the Ixia query Mark N Ireland zone 8 From tonyg@thealpinehouse.fsnet.co.uk Wed Oct 8 17:18:16 2003 Message-Id: <000d01c38de1$a82a2c40$164787d9@dan> From: "anthony goode" Subject: Ranunculus calandrinioides Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:18:00 +0100 Here in the southern UK Ranunculus calandrinioides is easily grown under cold glass. Sometimes seen on the showbench it is all too often grown rather lax. This is due to the winter growth being drawn up by low winter light levels. To counteract this grow it as hard as possible (ie don't keep it frost free under glass) and give it as much light as possible. I have also found that it keeps much more compact (and much more beautiful :)) if kept bone dry until mid winter. In this way growth does not commence above ground until early spring and is much less lax. (Watered in early autumn, after a summer rest it comes into growth well before Christmas.) Until this year I had only the one plant but having raised a crop of seedlings I will try it in a dry site outside one day. Tony Goode. Norwich UK. Mintemp -8C From tonyg@thealpinehouse.fsnet.co.uk Wed Oct 8 18:00:16 2003 Message-Id: <004e01c38de7$8872e9e0$164787d9@dan> From: "anthony goode" Subject: Ranunculus calandrinioides Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:00:05 +0100 I have added a couple of pictures to the wiki. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/ranunculuscalandrinioides.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/ranunculuscalandrinioidesl.JP G (Sorry - Got stuck looking for a way and a page to transfer the links onto in the photographs and inbformation area though!) Tony Goode. Norwich UK. Mintemp -8C From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Wed Oct 8 18:52:12 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20031009085619.00b55b90@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Landscaping with Bulbs Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 08:56:19 +1000 At 08:05 7/10/03 -0700, you wrote: >Dear All, > >I'm really finding all posts to the topic this week to be very interesting. >And I am glad to hear about Australia, European gardens, and other areas we >haven't heard from before. I think I left out New Zealand. Will any of our >New Zealand members tell us which bulbs can be used for landscaping? I >would imagine that the list would be very long. > Mary Sue et al, Another Aussie here..... I'm not actually sure what is meant by "landscaping" with bulbs? Are you meaning permanent planting in garden beds rather than pots? If so then I have various bulbs and perennials throughout the garden. From a "major contribution" to my gardens point of view I have in flower at the moment a short row of purple Tulips that have now been undisturbed in-ground for about 5 years (there must be about 35 blooms from 6 clumps which starte out as 6 bulbs). These curve along the edge of my path. Behind them but as a straight line along a previous garden edging is the common blue Ipehion, with Narcissus 'Erlicheer' (finished flowering now, but was beautiful a little while back in combination with the Ipheions) in a similar row behind them. These two rows would be around 6 metres long or so. Behind the Erlicheer are now various clumps of various Daffodills, a few more clumps of Ipheions, and 3 clumps of 3 different coloured "bluebells" (i.e pink, white, blue). Behind all those are a line of roses (shooting madly but not yet in bloom), surmounted by a single, fairly massive now, standardised pink floribunda wisteria currently in full bud. Behind all that is an establishing Escallonia hedge. The reason most of these are built on straight lines is that used to be a garden running along the edge of a square piece of lawn. The lawn went a number of years ago, replaced by a winding path with gardens throughout. I did not alter the existing garden edging of bulbs, but rather added different stuff along the edges of the paths to define them. It actually works very well to have this established garden with the front lines of Narcissus and Ipheions as it gives a back structure, then there are smaller things that sit lower than that garden bed and highlight the paths. The curve of Tulips looks brilliant as it ISN'T the straight line that is behind it, but curves away from it. I have also recently put in a small Lavender hedge which will establish over time to curve perfectly along the path. The path edge itself is small blue granite pieces which defines the path beautifully. I have tried to loosely draw a diagram here of what I have described above. R = rose, W = standardised wisteria, D = daffodil, i = ipheion, T = Tulip, e = Narcissus 'Erlicheer', B = a different colour of bluebells. ------------------------------- Hedgeline R R W R R D D B D B D B D i D i D i D D eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii ---------------------------------- T T T- - - - - T/ \ T/ -------- \ T/ / \ \ I suppose I have outlined all this to empahsise that the bulbs themselves can be used as delineation within the garden, creating borders and "vistas" to draw the eye. From the bottom right of my diagram above the effect is rather nice (others have commented as such... not trying to blow my own trumpet ). The fact that the edging of a previous garden was unaltered and did not match the new paths did not matter as it worked very well. None of these things are lifted, although some will need dividing soon as they're starting to crowd a little. The roses, hedge and standardised wisteria give height and backdrop to the masses of colour produced by the bulbs. The bulbs give an early "fill in" effect that gives a riot of colour which later is produced by the roses etc. It worked out really well. Also in other areas of the garden I have defined my paths by edging with bluebells or muscari, both of which never need lifting yet give a good solid colour to the path edges at their time. I know many people feel that the muscari foliage is ugly, but as a garden edge it is a solid dark green "line" for a long time and it tends to blend in with what is behind it. I am very glad I did this edging as it means that paths stay clearly defined. I also have Freesias and Sparaxis naturalised in a couple of areas of my garden, plus planting of dutch iris interspersed with my roses which are the "backbone" of the front garden bed. While the roses are dormant the dutch iris leaves are produced and give a bit of an echo of the regimentality of the roses, then as the roses are just starting to shoot the duth iris are coming into flower (right now) producing clumps of flowers at about 2 foot tall to give height to the garden. By the time they are finished the roses are budding and ready to take over for summer. The strappy leaves of the dutch iris are then unnoticed as the roses tend to cover them over and they aren't noticed. A good large clump of dutch iris in the garden can make a VERY big statement and providing you think about the placing it can become a focal point in your garden "landscape". So.... I've rambled on about permanent plantings in my garden, and hopefully it may give some ideas to others. Hopefully the rest of you haven't nodded off by now . Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From jglatt@ptd.net Wed Oct 8 19:52:15 2003 Message-Id: <000f01c38df8$c9e5eb00$acd3bacc@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: Landscaping with Bulbs Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:03:36 -0400 Hi All, I've been away, off in Madison WI at Olbrich Botanic Garden and at Chicago Botanic Garden (where Boyce and I had the most marvelous sunny morning strolling the grounds and talking non-stop.) Hence my somewhat tardy reply. I have almost 9 acres. It slopes, we're on a well, there are deer and woodchucks and other critters - naturalistic is the only way that really works for me. Planting large numbers of bulbs just to yank them out after they flower (says she, blithely ignoring all the cannas that will need to be dug and boxed for the winter), well, tulips for example, just not worth the effort in large numbers. Hyacinthoides hispanicus is a thug in smaller gardens, works well in mine where it has room to romp around the woodland. I like the plain old mauve-purple Corydalis solida that happily seeds about and combines so nicely with Helleborus orientals. Sure I'd like the cultivars, but at $10 each for 'George Baker' it isn't going to happen - can't make drifts with one. Fritillaria imperialis does well for me, on a slope in what passes for full sun, in rather heavy soil. They get touched with frost, slump to the ground, resurrects themselves, and bloom. Splitting up but still flowering. Difficulty is finding it a partner as there's not much else that size except shrubs. So I planted Spirea 'Gold Flame' in front, and the rusty new leaves on the shrub make a nice complement to the orange bells. I'm fond of arisaema and Arisarum probiscoideum and lots of others, like snowdrops and snowflakes, Guinea hen flower and more. But I just got home this afternoon, I need to finish unpacking, and I'll write more tomorrow or the next day. And the colchicum at C.B.G. were lovely. regards from Judy, back home in the Garden State From msittner@mcn.org Thu Oct 9 00:17:29 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031008121916.00ccb100@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Moraea polystachya/Moraea venenata Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:16:17 -0700 Dear All, It is that time of year for Moraea polystachya to bloom in my garden. Like Paul Tyerman I have had mixed success with this plant in my garden. When it blooms, it blooms for such a long time and is so pretty that it is a favorite of mine. But for years with me it has been hit or miss whether it would bloom. I tried watering more in summer, planting it in different spots, but never found the magic bullet. Then Dirk Wallace gave me seed he labeled Moraea venenata. It germinated in less than a month in September and bloomed the second year in the fall and it has bloomed every year since (not every corm, but enough to satisfy me). And I really love it. It looks just like Moraea polystachya however and my attempts to key it out still made me think that was what it was. Dirk told me he had it from a good source and we both agreed it was a wonderful plant so I decided it didn't matter for enjoying the plant but in my mind it remained M. venenata ? This year when it is blooming again (I have it in a pot) Moraea polystachya is also blooming in the raised beds I redid last year. So I decided to gather some confidence and tackle the key and the descriptions of the two plants in the Moraea book. I believe both plants are Moraea polystachya. The plant that is supposed to be Moraea venenata is too tall, the outer tepals are too short (the flowers are supposed to be bigger than Moraea polystachya and the plant shorter). Also the seed pods are not long enough. At least this is true of my plants. If any of you growing this in Australia as M. venenata have plants in seed please check out your pods. M. venenata is supposed to have pods that are cylindric and 16-20 mm long and are included in the spathe until nearly ripe. M . polystachya seeds are 11-16 mm. long and are well exserted from the spathe. My plants of the suspect plant that have been blooming only since late September, already have a visible seed pod. To anyone I have given seed or corms of this plant as Moraea venenata if you are reading please change your label. Finally, in the most recent BX my friend Bob Werra offered seed of Moraea polystachya which he says does very well for him. I've had a couple of unusual circumstances preventing my growing corms of his even though he has given some to me. I have seven now from his seed so one of these days I hope to have blooms. Bob says that his does not start blooming in the fall, but instead blooms in winter. That would mean it they behaved the same for me that I could have one group of plants bloom for many months and as they were ending their cycle a new cycle on the plants from his seed would start. But I am wondering if the time of bloom could be variable each year. Last year the Moraea polystachya in the bed I redid bloomed Jan-Mar. This year the same plant has started to bloom in Oct. So maybe when it blooms is a function of environmental conditions and not the plant itself. The plant I grew as Moraea venenata has started blooming reliably each year in the fall but I have always grown it in a pot. Last year it started blooming in October and the last blooms were in January. This is a very long time considering some Moraeas are in bloom for less than a week in my garden. Does anyone in South Africa grow the real Moraea venenata? Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Thu Oct 9 19:46:56 2003 Message-Id: <003601c38ec0$34529c00$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: amaryllis-plus.com back on-line Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:51:04 -0400 Hello, A quick note to to inform y'all that www.amaryllis-plus.com is back on line with an updated site (under some construction, but for the most part, functional). Soon my Griffinia site and a hymenocallis of the SE US will have links on the home page. Keep on Growin' Thank you, Kevin D. Preuss www.Amaryllis-Plus.com From arnold@nj.rr.com Thu Oct 9 20:04:49 2003 Message-Id: <3F85F7A0.4090007@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: TOW Landscaping with bulbs - Arnold Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:04:48 -0400 Cathy; Sorry to be a bit late. I used a four inch auger bit in an electric drill. The hole was wide enough for three to four bulbs. I placed them carefully in the bottom of the hole shoulder to shoulder. I feel the key is to make them look somewhat naturalized and not planted like soldiers at attention. They have been the ground for two seasons and so far the bloom has increased each year. Arnold From jglatt@ptd.net Fri Oct 10 09:03:16 2003 Message-Id: <000e01c38f30$7e3f84c0$0cd3bacc@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: Landscaping with Bulbs Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:14:49 -0400 First, says my husband, define your terms. To me, "landscaping" implies that aesthetics are a major part of the desired goal. Style is immaterial at this point, so landscaping can include informal: country, cottage, naturalistic, as well as formal design. Keukenhof is wonderful, but totally artificial. It is, however, a landscape. Agriculture has production as its end result, so bulb fields in Holland or a farm stand's field with a row of gladiolas for cut flowers fit here. Plants grown in pots as ornamentals are part of the landscape. Those grown in pots as a means of cultivation: nursery production, bulb frame, and so forth, fit more into the agriculture definition than that for landscape. Since I do not have "staff", my focus is on plants that care for themselves. I do enjoy growing lachenalia and veltheimia in my greenhouse, but do not consider this part of the garden. Gardeners in Mediterranean climate regions who can grow them in the ground are using them as landscape plants. The cannas that go into the ground in May and are boxed for winter storage sometime in October are, in my opinion, landscape plants. Since my preferred style is naturalistic (plant community but not restricted to native plants) I try to grow an assortment of plants placed in an informal manner that provides the appearance of nature. Irregular groupings, and the partnership of bulbs with perennials and shrubs growing under larger trees are part of the stylistic focus. Certain bulbs look "gardenesque" to me: pretty much anything with double flowers, certain tulips such as the parrots and lily-flowered, the latest cultivars with variegated foliage - Camassia 'Blue Melody' and Tulip 'Uncium' for example. After that I think it is pretty much anything goes. Personal taste and style is the deciding factor. The most difficult part of designing someone else's garden, for me, is developing their garden, rather than the one I would have if I lived there. So yes, bulbs are very much a component in my landscapes, but I believe it is what the gardener does with them rather than specific bulbs that create that landscape. Design drives the landscape, not the plants per se. Judy in the Garden State of New Jersey, eastern deciduous woodland with summer temperatures as high as 90° Fahrenheit (or a tick more) and winters that can dive into the single digits, precipitation all year round with irregular snow in winter. From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Fri Oct 10 09:05:16 2003 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: Eucharis Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:03:42 -0400 Hello: I have a lovely pot of Eucharis x grandiflora that has been growing nicely for over ten years with regular repotting about every three years. For the last three years they have refused to bloom. Any suggestions as to how I can get these back on track? Rand Nicholson z5b Maritime Canada From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Fri Oct 10 10:01:01 2003 Message-Id: <000f01c38f37$7e016620$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Eucharis Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:04:58 -0400 Rand, Dry them off now and keep them protected and dry at conditions about 60-65 F for about 6-7 weeks and then begin to water again and before Christmas you should have some blooms. Try this again in Feb./March and you can get blooms again for Easter. Best Kevin D. Preuss www.Amaryllis-Plus.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rand Nicholson" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 10:03 AM Subject: [pbs] Eucharis > Hello: > > I have a lovely pot of Eucharis x grandiflora that has been growing > nicely for over ten years with regular repotting about every three > years. For the last three years they have refused to bloom. Any > suggestions as to how I can get these back on track? > > Rand Nicholson > z5b Maritime Canada > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Matthewgale@btopenworld.com Fri Oct 10 10:28:05 2003 Message-Id: <00ac01c38f3b$438778a0$9dfe7ad5@default> From: "Matthew Gale" Subject: Visit to South Africa Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:25:06 +0100 Hi Audrey, So, how was the visit to South Africa? The reports on the PBS list sounded fascinating - sort of 'trip of a lifetime' stuff!! I've started down the path toward a new career, as a primary teacher. I'm spending a few days a week volunteering at a local primary school in a reception class. It's going very well and I'm loving it. Just have to get a place on a PGCE course now. I've just ordered seed from a number of Cyrtanthus species from Silverhill Seeds - hopefully, I will have more luck with them than I have had in the past with the few species I've tried. All the best, Matthew From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Fri Oct 10 10:36:11 2003 Message-Id: <3F86C3CA.2010601@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Visit to South Africa - Cyrtanthus Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:35:54 -0500 Matthew: Most of my Cyrtanthus came up received from Silverhill. They are still under lights, though (for two years now), as I can't seem to get around to constructing a fully climate controlled greenhouse. Matthew Gale wrote: >I've just ordered seed from a number of Cyrtanthus species from Silverhill >Seeds - hopefully, I will have more luck with them than I have had in the >past with the few species I've tried. > -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From msittner@mcn.org Fri Oct 10 10:40:45 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031010073615.01b26570@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Cyrtanthus Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:39:06 -0700 Dear All, It is my understanding that the introduction for Cyrtanthus for the topic of the week is in progress. I know a number of you are eager to discuss this as am I so just wanted you to know that it is coming (I hope). Mary Sue From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Fri Oct 10 10:04:22 2003 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: Eucharis Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:04:15 -0400 See, now ... I knew that. Just had to be reminded. Thank you Kevin. Rand >Rand, >Dry them off now and keep them protected and dry at conditions about 60-65 F >for about 6-7 weeks and then begin to water again and before Christmas you >should have some blooms. >Try this again in Feb./March and you can get blooms again for Easter. >Best >Kevin D. Preuss >www.Amaryllis-Plus.com From msittner@mcn.org Fri Oct 10 12:14:13 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031010084552.00d6a8f0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Brunsvigia grandiflora seeds Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:12:11 -0700 Dear All, Dell tells me that 30+ people asked for the Brunsvigia grandiflora seeds from Rhoda and Cameron. I think this is a splendid opportunity to document how long Amaryllid seed can remain viable and still produce bulbs. Rhoda and Cameron stored the seed in their refrigerator as they planned to sell it as orders came in. So it was there quite a long time. I am sure that many people at the IBS Symposium purchased seed. When we visited them after the Symposium was over, most of the seeds that was left had already formed radicles so the seed needed to be planted immediately. Rhoda and Cameron were going to be moving soon so they were very busy and they made the decision rather than trying to find time to plant it as they normally would have, to bring pleasure to members of this list by donating it. Rachel agreed to provide a phyto and send the seeds to her brother in the US that week. He would send the seeds on to Dell. As I wrote explaining all this to Dell so he could notify everyone, Patty Colville went through all the seeds and removed those that were clearly not going to make it. Rachel advised packing them in a paper bag. We hoped those that were plump even if they had already started the process, could still be sown, and would grow. But then it took about three weeks for the seeds to get to Dell who reported they looked like Chinese Bean Sprouts at that stage. He immediately sent them on to everyone. So it would seem that at least 4-5 weeks had passed and maybe longer after these seeds had started to germinate before they could be planted. And they wouldn't have always been cool in transit. I would assume that if they are going to grow, many of them will already have shoots. I am asking those who got seeds to let us know how they are doing. If you are reluctant to do this to the whole group, please let me or Dell know and we can summarize anonymous reports. I know when I give something to the BX I always wonder what luck people had. I am sure that all of us who were involved in making this happen would love to know if it was worth it. And it would be helpful information for the future. Thanks. Mary Sue From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Fri Oct 10 13:03:46 2003 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: TOW landscaping with bulbs Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:02:33 -0700 Thanks Arnold. Good thinking, they would look better in clumps. I have all the narcissus I am going to plant this year and will put them in in clumps like you did. You are right, in the past mine look like soldiers - and it does look silly. Arnold wrote: The hole was wide enough for three to four bulbs. I placed them carefully in the bottom of the hole shoulder to shoulder. I feel the key is to make them look somewhat naturalized and not planted like soldiers at attention. They have been the ground for two seasons and so far the bloom has increased each year. Cathy Craig EA your Essential Advisor From jamievande@freenet.de Fri Oct 10 13:24:28 2003 Message-Id: <001701c38f53$3d2b20c0$6402a8c0@celeron> From: "Jamie" Subject: Brunsvigia grandiflora seeds Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:23:31 +0200 Mary Sue and all, being one of the lucky recipients of these seeds and considering the long transit they had going from South Africa to the US and then on to northern Europe, I feel obliged to mention their current health! All the seed, which were definitely Wok material, have been planted and are going strong. As an experiment, I have one pot of them on the windowsill in warmth and the rest are in the cool house in the garden. The latter are subject to the changes of temperature, currently mild, only hitting 8°C on the occaisional evening, but they receive much more light. Of the two groups, the cooler/lighter pot is looking a bit more robust with better leaf colour. One can clearly see the swelling of the young bulb developing on both pots. Of course, when freezes are a threat, I may have to bring the second pot under lights as the cool house is not heated, or barely. I hope to keep them in growth through the winter months. They are looking good! Wishing you all sucess with these little treasures. Jamie Vande Cologne Germany From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Fri Oct 10 14:01:03 2003 Message-Id: <3F86F3CD.1060904@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Brunsvigia grandiflora seeds Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:00:45 -0500 I planted mine in a 5 gallon pot on top of the medium, then covered with 1/4-1/2 inch of granite grit. They are exposed to the elements but under high shade. I see presently 3 shoots but expect more activity this week. They seemed in fine condition when received, esentially but all with a radicle already emerged. -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Fri Oct 10 14:08:34 2003 Message-Id: <25.3f2869a8.2cb84f5f@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Brunsvigia grandiflora seeds Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:07:27 EDT In a message dated 10/10/2003 12:15:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, msittner@mcn.org writes: I am asking those who got seeds to let us know how they are doing. Seeds were set on top of our standard mix and then covered with about a quarter inch of coarse sand, bottom watered and are now up at least an inch. They will be kept growing as long as possible in the greenhouse, in an old aquarium with bottom heat supplied. Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 10 15:01:35 2003 Message-Id: <3F870004.56A2148@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Landscaping with bulbs Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:52:52 -0700 Dear All: Unless one has a garden where bulbs are featured in a landscape, such as Keukenhof, bulbs, in my opinion, are best used to compliment existing plantings, not be counted upon to be the only plants to provide color at any given season but to provide additional interest. Mass plantings of evergreen bulbs, Agapanthus, Dieties, Hemercallis, can stand alone in a bed and provide permanent plantings, but if the bulbs loose their foliage, a void during certain periods of the year is not attractive. True, parks such as Mitchel Park in Durban, various city parks in England and elsewhere use bulbs to add color and interest, they are correctly used to add interest to the area but used in conjunction with other plants, pansies, Forget-me-not, being more of less classic examples. In my opinion using Hyacinthoides to augment the color of a border of Azaleas, or planted to naturalize under deciduous trees, Crocus in lawn areas and Narcissus planted to naturalize are great examples of using bulbs effectively in the landscape. But the genera that can be used in such ways, is rather limited and demanding of a good space being available. It is a different story when one considers the overall landscape of the majority of gardens. In such cases, Lilies to prolong the flowering period among spring flowering shrubs, bold clumps to give periods of color among established plantings of other plants, Eranthis to give early spring color and providing color contrasts with the colored stems of Japanese Maples when the Maples are without leaves, Cyclamen to provide groundcover interest in the fall and early winter in shady spots, are good examples of the effective use of bulbs in the landscape. In such situations they excel and contribute greatly to the landscape combining with other plants to increase interest, color and pleasure. Simply planted without other plants, such are not as effective. Gladiolus planted among summer flowering annuals add much with their foliage and flowers, contrasting well WITH the other plants. They are then much more effective than by themselves. Landscaping with bulbs is then, again in my opinion, most effective when viewed with other, perhaps more permanent denizens of the garden. Finding such combinations is a pleasure and a challenge. The number of the bulbs planted in groupings means being cognizant of the scale of the landscape in which they are to perform. On a small scale perhaps 9 bulbs will make a significant splash, in other larger areas to be in scale and contribute, as such will need to be appreciated from a distance, perhaps 90 will be needed. Scale must be remembered, such will dictate the size of plantings. There are exceptions, Cardiocrinum giganteum can stand alone almost as specimen plants, but such is not the rule for the majority of bulbs, scale is a factor that must be kept in mind in any landscape. Perhaps thinking of bulbs as providing points of interest, contributing to the overall interest of the garden, and the size of plantings being in scale is a basic ingredient, essential factor, when using bulbs in the landscape. Cheers, John E. Bryan From jsulmer@covad.net Fri Oct 10 18:45:46 2003 Message-Id: <7AB8DEF9-FB73-11D7-9EFD-000A956B34F8@covad.net> From: Jana Ulmer Subject: Brunsvigia grandiflora seeds Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:45:42 -0700 Dear Mary Sue and All, Of the 25-odd Brunsvigia grandiflora that I received, 17 are now growing and have put up a leaf. The remaining seed still looks capable of growing (i.e. is still plump and green). I did not count how many were ungerminated on arrival, but most were in the aforementioned "bean sprout" stage. When the seed arrived, I potted them up individually in small pots; the pots are outside in a sunny location that is watered regularly and protected from birds, which peck out every living sprout (except weed sprouts, of course) visible at this time of year. I would like to thank Rhoda and Cameron for their generosity and also all the other people involved in getting the seed out to us all. Jana Jana Ulmer Sebastopol, CA Zone 8-9 From mark@marksgardenplants.com Fri Oct 10 20:46:03 2003 Message-Id: <001101c38f91$0836b9e0$f3d59851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Trillium pusillum Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:45:55 +0100 hi all Does anyone know of a source for Trillium pusillum var texanum and or T p var virginianum? Thanks Mark N Ireland zone 8 - with a very warm evening of 17C/63F From ernestwells@mindspring.com Fri Oct 10 20:46:35 2003 Message-Id: <5D3CBA64-FB84-11D7-A219-000A95937A28@mindspring.com> From: Tom Wells Subject: Brunsvigia grandiflora seeds Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:46:34 -0700 Just check the seeds I have, they are in a Pro Bx mix and outside ( Southern California ), all are doing well, some with leaves about 1" long. Tom From paige@hillkeep.ca Fri Oct 10 22:16:12 2003 Message-Id: <11cf01c38f9d$adadecc0$6f8157d1@inet> From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: Fritillary cloning Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:58:56 -0700 In the September 2003 Alpine Gardener, which has just landed on my doorstep, is a how-to article by Joy Bishop on cloning Fritillaria by breaking up or cutting the bulb as though it were a snowdrop or tulip. This practice is apparently uncommon except in large nurseries (it's certainly uncommon in mine!), so I thought you all might be interested. Paige Woodward on top of Chilliwack Mountain in southwest British Columbia Canada wet Zone 6 www.hillkeep.ca paige@hillkeep.ca From GEOPHYTE@sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 10 21:11:54 2003 Message-Id: From: GEOPHYTE@sbcglobal.net Subject: Brunsvigia grandiflora seeds Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:11:53 -0500 First, let me say that there were generous numbers of seed(lings) in the three packets I received, and I potted them up the night they arrived. There were less than 10 that were in such a condition that I didn't even try to plant them. Most of the seed had sprouted quite a long root and many already had an accompanying leaf. I planted them with the seed sitting above the soil, with the root as far into the soil as was practical, which wasn't easy, since many of them were shaped like a corkscrew due to having sprouted in transit. I placed them in a sunny south facing windowsill for their first two days, because I didn't want to burn the leaves. Now, they are outside where they are getting direct sun until noon or so. They are looking very healthy and grow sturdier by the day. The discussion on their growth cycle was not really conclusive, but since they are coming to us now, in what is springtime in their native country, I'm assuming that the parents of these seed are leafing out right about now, and are summer growers. Is this correct? I'm thinking about staging them indoors and under lights over the winter in order to give them the day length and warmth they need until they can go back outside next summer. By next winter they should be large enough to let go dormant. I would like to again thank everyone involved in making this seed distribution possible. I'm enjoying them immensely! Jamie From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Fri Oct 10 22:25:45 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20031011122957.00b3b4f0@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: viability in fleshy amaryllid seeds Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:29:57 +1000 At 09:12 10/10/03 -0700, you wrote: >Dear All, > >Dell tells me that 30+ people asked for the Brunsvigia grandiflora seeds >from Rhoda and Cameron. I think this is a splendid opportunity to document >how long Amaryllid seed can remain viable and still produce bulbs. > Mary Sue et al, If they are anything like Haemanthus (I have never tested this with Brunsvigia) then some of them can germinate and live for months without ever being planted..... How do I know, well OK... Confession time . A couple of years aback I availabled myself of some Haemanthus albiflos seed frm the IBS BX, received them and they , erm.. got lost for a while. 3 months later I found them. All 4 had germinated in the packet and formed tiny bulbs with a somewhat sickly looking short yellow leaf on the top. I think the leaf had started, realised it wasn't going to happen and then stopped itself until ligth etc was available. The bulb was a little larger than the original seed, despite the fact that there was no light at all available to the seed when it germinated. I carefully planted these tiny bulbs at ground level and they grew happily. It was a real surprise to me!! Interesting that this discussion arose now. A while back I wrote on one of hte lists about how I had removed a seed head from a Haemanthus albiflos after hearing that virus could possibly be transferred via pollen (I had of course been madly pollinating this particular plant with one that i had just learned was virused). I put the flower head in a vase to enjoy the flowers for a while and then left it there as there looked to be some activity. It survived many months and produced happily viable seeds which I harvested about 6 weeks ago (one of the berries contained a seed which already had a 1cm radical still WITHIN the berry before harvesting!!). There were still some small berries on the head to I left it just in case. This morning I went to throw it out and thought I'd check the berries just to be sure. 2 of the berries had tiny leaves poking out of their shriveled remains so I harvested about 8 or 9 tiny berries which were still on there. Every one of these contained a viable seed, all of which were producing radicals of some description. The couple which had leaves poking out had no actual seed remaining, but instead had used the seed to produce a small bulb in a similar way to what I outlined happened to me a few years ago in the packet. These tiny bulbs had healthy green leaf on top and I'll be planting them this afternoon. All the others will be similarly planted and I expect all of them will quite happily produce bulbs and grow successfully now. I have no idea whether this applies to Brunsvigia or not, but certainly never give up until the seed is gone and rotted. It was just so cool finding them already germinating before even being picked. I am rather glad I checked before I threw the old head out . Anyway, I thought this might interest some of you. I also seem to recall one of the South African suppliers (Rachel, Rhoda?) saying that they find that seed germinated much better if left in a warm dark cupboard rather than being sown. I have certainly found that fresh seed that is sown immediately may sit for a number of weeks before it does anything (in this case anything may be germinate, or rot!) whereas the same seed kept in an envelope will germinate within a week or two and be WELL ahead of anything from the pot as it will have weeks more to produce food and bulb before it goes dormant. Since I heard that others felt this way I have kept all of my fleshy amaryllid seeds in an envelope until they start germinating, then I sow them. This has included belladonnas, Nerines, Haemanthus etc. It really does produce SO much better germination I have found. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Fri Oct 10 22:41:15 2003 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: Brunsvigia grandiflora seeds Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:41:06 -0400 Hi All; Boy, did I join this list just a tad too late! I have been looking for a Brunsvigia for over fifteen years, when I first saw one in bloom while visiting at a friend's summer camp. It was sitting in a pot on the porch. I had no idea what it was then, but strongly suspected that it was in the amaryllis family and was not able to confirm its identity until a year later. By then it had travelled on to parts unknown. I have been following the Topic of the Week with great interest and hope that, in the future, I will be able to make a contribution to these discussions. Some fascinating plants being discussed on this list and it is heartening to know that there are so many others that are growing successfully, or attempting to grow (my category) various "exotic" bulbs and tubers under less than ideal conditions. Rand Nicholson z 5b Maritime Canada From boutin@goldrush.com Sat Oct 11 01:31:16 2003 Message-Id: <001801c38fb9$e998c1d0$273d7143@boutin> From: "boutin" Subject: Brunsvigia grandiflora seeds Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:38:33 -0700 Thanks again to Rhoda and Cameron and everyone else who made distribution of the Brunsvigia grandiflora seed possible. My packet of sprouts went into a community pot where 19 now have leaves. A few arrived with leaf tips damaged and/or rotted. These are continuing to produce bulbs and some additional leaf growth. Fred Boutin Tuolumne, CA . Zone 7 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Sue Ittner" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 9:12 AM Subject: [pbs] Brunsvigia grandiflora seeds > Dear All, > > Dell tells me that 30+ people asked for the Brunsvigia grandiflora seeds > from Rhoda and Cameron. I think this is a splendid opportunity to document > how long Amaryllid seed can remain viable and still produce bulbs. > > Rhoda and Cameron stored the seed in their refrigerator as they planned to > sell it as orders came in. So it was there quite a long time. I am sure > that many people at the IBS Symposium purchased seed. When we visited them > after the Symposium was over, most of the seeds that was left had already > formed radicles so the seed needed to be planted immediately. Rhoda and > Cameron were going to be moving soon so they were very busy and they made > the decision rather than trying to find time to plant it as they normally > would have, to bring pleasure to members of this list by donating it. > > Rachel agreed to provide a phyto and send the seeds to her brother in the > US that week. He would send the seeds on to Dell. As I wrote explaining all > this to Dell so he could notify everyone, Patty Colville went through all > the seeds and removed those that were clearly not going to make it. Rachel > advised packing them in a paper bag. We hoped those that were plump even if > they had already started the process, could still be sown, and would grow. > But then it took about three weeks for the seeds to get to Dell who > reported they looked like Chinese Bean Sprouts at that stage. He > immediately sent them on to everyone. So it would seem that at least 4-5 > weeks had passed and maybe longer after these seeds had started to > germinate before they could be planted. And they wouldn't have always been > cool in transit. > > I would assume that if they are going to grow, many of them will already > have shoots. I am asking those who got seeds to let us know how they are > doing. If you are reluctant to do this to the whole group, please let me or > Dell know and we can summarize anonymous reports. I know when I give > something to the BX I always wonder what luck people had. I am sure that > all of us who were involved in making this happen would love to know if it > was worth it. And it would be helpful information for the future. > > Thanks. > > Mary Sue > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From davidxvictor@mailblocks.com Sat Oct 11 05:46:34 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20031011103947.00bb4eb8@app4.mailblocks.com> From: David Victor Subject: Brunsvigia grandiflora seed Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:46:16 +0100 Dear Mary Sue, I thought that you might like to know that the pinch of these that I brought back with me from the conference are now around three inches tall and growing away very strongly in my cold greenhouse. So well are they growing that they will need potting on to a larger pot before the next couple of weeks are past. Also, its really starting to become Oxalis time here. Around ten species are flowering today, including O. anomala, for the first time, and O. gracilis will be joining them shortly. Many of the Nerine sp. are also flowering well. However, the garden itself remains a desert, with only 10mm of rain since August 1st. Best regards, David Victor From vikingdoc@earthlink.net Sat Oct 11 12:44:03 2003 Message-Id: <41200310611164412290@earthlink.net> From: "Kathy Stokmanis" Subject: Brunsvigia grandiflora seeds Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 9:44:12 -0700 Dear list members, The seeds arrived very quickly following my order and all had sprouted. Some of the tiny roots were damaged in transit but I planted everything, some in individual pots, some in group pots. All were planted on the surface of the soil. Some are in shade, some are in full sun. Those in shade are leaning towards the light so they'll all be in sun by today. Most are doing well though some seeds have shriveled and turned yellow. I am very excited by the opportunity to attempt to grow this and appreciate everyone who put in so much work. Kathy Stokmanis Paradise, California, Sunset Zone 7 but my own observations suggest a microclimate closer to 8 or even 9. Mediterranean, 50 to 70 inches of rain between November and April, currently in the fifties F at night, eighties F during the day. --- Kathy Stokmanis --- vikingdoc@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. From msittner@mcn.org Sat Oct 11 13:39:53 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031011094641.01bc0ba0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Brunsvigia grandiflora seed Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:38:39 -0700 Dear All, First off I want to remind everyone that Bill Dijk in New Zealand flowers this plant as he has added a picture to the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Brunsvigia_grandflora.jpg Bill if you are reading this perhaps you can tell us how you have succeeded with it and how long it took from seed to flower. Thanks to Dirk for advising us that even though this plant is from a predominantly summer rainfall area it grows in winter. The Bulbous Plants of Southern Africa book says it is summer growing and I guess I didn't look any further and just thought my plants were adapting to my Mediterranean climate. Dirk's comment caused me to go rummaging through my old IBSA bulletins as I recalled Rhoda had written an article in the 2000 year bulletin entitled Some Bulbous Oxymoronaceae. This "family" she has created is for bulbs that have a winter-related growth habit when they are found naturally in an area where rainfall occurs mainly in summer. They grow in the winter and are dormant in summer and have acclimatized to a warm wet summer and a dryish frosty winter. Bulbs in the area where she used to live (Stutterheim) that fell in this category are Freesia laxa, Ixia orientalis, Moraea unguiculata, Hesperantha falcata, Massonia jasminiflora, Lachenalia campanulata, Veltheimia bracteata, Ornithogalum thyrsoides, Haemanthus coccineus, and Strumaria gemmata. In her next paragraph she refers to a group of plants in the Amaryllidaeae that have not quite made up their minds whether they want to belong to the Oxymoronaceae or not. In this category she places Brunsvigia gregaria, Brunsvigia grandiflora and Haemanthus montanus. In Stutterheim the leaves of these three appear in January, halfway between spring and autumn. The Brunsvigia species flower between January and March (summer to autumn), the leaves persist into late winter and then die off in late spring and stay dormant for the rest of the time. They sit solemnly through wet heavy showers in summer and cannot be enticed to sprout earlier. She advised a light sprinkling during early summer when they are dormant. My Pooley books say for distribution scattered in grassland, 1200-3200 meters Eastern Cape, Kwazulu-Natal, and the Free State. So maybe Dawie can tell us about the ones in the Free State. By the way for those interested in common names this one is called the Giant Candelabra Flower. Thanks for all those who have reported that their seeds are coming along just fine in spite of all their journeys. I hope more of you will report as well. Rhoda would have postponed the time they normally would have been germinating by refrigerating them and I am still guessing they would be sending down a radicle when the soil would be dry which doesn't make any sense to me. When we visited Stutterheim in late winter two years ago it looked extremely dry, just like it does in California in the fall before it starts to rain. So does that make this Brunsvigia and B. gregaria seed more adaptable and able to last longer before they get moisture or are Brunsvigia seeds that that way? I know they get some rainfall in winter so perhaps a little is enough. Thanks Paul for your interesting observations about Amaryllid seed. In Northern coastal California my Brunsvigia grandiflora plants from seed started in February 2000 that have been subjected to at least two years of 50+ inches of rain in winter and occasionally sprinklings but mostly dry summers have just this week emerged. So this one may be a very adaptable plant. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From brian.whyer@which.net Sat Oct 11 14:02:28 2003 Message-Id: <000b01c39021$d5a2c280$5b4cfd3e@2CVEVE1> From: "Brian Whyer" Subject: Brunsvigia grandiflora seeds Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:02:18 +0100 My seed, (seedlings?) were another of the batches that crossed the Atlantic twice. On receipt the most advanced had a pale leaf 2" long, the others leaves about 1/4" long. I potted all mine in a single 6" pot, spaced out as I would 1 year seedling bulbs (e.g. narcissus?), or small alpine seedlings. My method of spacing delicate plants came from an alpine book many years ago, and may be of interest to other members. Fill the pot with compost to the level you want the bottom of the existing roots to be, firm slightly and prop the pot securely at an angle of about 45degrees. Layer compost about 1/2" deep up the now lower side of the pot, to the brim, and lay on say 3 evenly spaced seedlings at the required final planting depth. Add another layer of compost and then another layer of say 4 seedlings. Continue the layers of compost and seedlings until the pot is filled. Turn the pot back to the vertical and tamp gently on a firm surface. You have a pot of, hopefully evenly spaced, seedlings all at the required depth and with little or no damage to the roots. I planted mine with the top of the "bulb" about 1/4" below the surface of a 50% sand, 50% soil based commercial potting compost. I now have 14 green leaves showing. They will stay on the kitchen floor, immediately in front of the south facing French windows, for as long as my wife will put up with them, or next spring, when they will go to the frost free greenhouse for the summer. Current bulb(ous)s flowering, colchicum speciosum album and col. 'water lily', crocus pulchellus, kotschyanus, banaticus and speciosus (just), oxalis flava, lobata and depressa?, galanthus reginea-olgae/corcyrensis, habranthus candida, sternbergia clusiana?, several cyclamen, nerine sarniensis, and the odd lingering leucojum, habranthus, albuca and hedychium, and haemanthus albiflos in the greenhouse. Brian Whyer, zone 8'ish, Buckinghamshire, England From Matthewgale@btopenworld.com Sat Oct 11 15:04:14 2003 Message-Id: <00da01c3902b$032bc720$44348351@default> From: "Matthew Gale" Subject: Visit to South Africa/ Cyrtanthus Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:52:56 +0100 My apologies to everyone on the PBS list - as you can probably tell, I had meant to address my previous email to Audrey Cain rather than the whole group. Sorry for the mistake, however, I am really pleased that people seem to be interested in discussing Cyrtanthus since I have very limited experience with the genus and I'm very keen to learn more. My previous experience of growing Cyrtanthus from seed was a few C. breviflorus seed I got from the AGS, which did quite well initially only to die a short while later (damping off?). This happened a few years ago, when I'd first started growing bulbs and had no idea what sort of conditions South African bulbs needed. I'm planning to use a mixture of equal parts compost, perlite and sand for the seed that I'm getting from Silverhill, although I'm wondering whether species like C. helictus and C. smithiae might need even better drainage as seedlings? Best wishes, Matthew matthewgale@btopenworld.com From Matthewgale@btopenworld.com Sat Oct 11 15:04:21 2003 Message-Id: <00dc01c3902b$04b57460$44348351@default> From: "Matthew Gale" Subject: Visit to South Africa - Cyrtanthus Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 20:07:25 +0100 I've always been impressed with the seed I've received from Silverhill - just hope my culture methods are sound... I suspect that was the problem I had with the Cyrtanthus seed I got from the AGS - poor drainage and aeration. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Irvin" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Visit to South Africa - Cyrtanthus > Matthew: > > Most of my Cyrtanthus came up received from Silverhill. They are still > under lights, though (for two years now), as I can't seem to get around > to constructing a fully climate controlled greenhouse. > > Matthew Gale wrote: > > >I've just ordered seed from a number of Cyrtanthus species from Silverhill > >Seeds - hopefully, I will have more luck with them than I have had in the > >past with the few species I've tried. > > > -- > Mr. Kelly M. Irvin > The Bulbmeister > 4407 Town Vu Road > Bentonville, AR 72712 > 479-685-1339 > > USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b > > E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com > Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ > Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From hamish.sloan@virgin.net Sat Oct 11 16:41:15 2003 Message-Id: <01C39040.42016440.hamish.sloan@virgin.net> From: Hamish Sloan Subject: Landscaping with Bulbs: Pest control Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 21:37:17 +0100 Hello All, Judy mentioned a pest that has had a mention before: "I have almost 9 acres. It slopes, we're on a well, there are deer and woodchucks and other critters - naturalistic is the only way that really works for me." Some of the gardens plagued with deer hereabouts (mainly the introduced Chinese water deer or Muntjac) keep them away from their gardens by hanging bars of soap among the plant beds. Tie to a cane so the bars are about 3 feet off the ground. Spacing that I saw was often over 25 yards. Some of the bars I saw had clearly dried out a great deal and must have been hanging in place for several months. Any of you tried this for your local forms of deer? I don't know if highly scented soap works better, i.e., is it the soapy smell or the added scents? It would be interesting to see if it worked with other wildlife. I had no mention of effects on squirrels or wood pigeons. Regards Hamish Wettish (usually!!!) zone 9, South central UK. From msittner@mcn.org Sun Oct 12 11:10:33 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031012080829.00d5e430@mail.mcn.org> From: "daniel thompson" (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Brunsvigia seed Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 08:09:18 -0700 Dear Mary Sue The seed was planted on Sept. 26 in small pots and about 1/2 inch deep. I had to be gone until Oct.8. During the time I was gone the temp. went to 30 F. The plants seem fine and this morning I noticed that 12 have leaves. All the seed are still in good condition and none have gone bad. I hope this helps. Daniel Thompson Kentucky. -10 average low the past few years and 95+ F for the high temp. From msittner@mcn.org Sun Oct 12 11:30:26 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031012081456.00d624c0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Landscaping with Bulbs Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 08:29:05 -0700 Dear All, Thanks for all the wonderful responses everyone has written about landscaping with bulbs. We had some theory and practice as well and examples from a lot of different locations. I don't think anyone from the southern United States shared what worked there, but we did hear about some of the areas of the world that weren't covered in our regional discussions earlier. As I read I kept thinking it would have been nice to see some illustrations of what people were talking about. If there is interest in this we could always make a Landscaping with Bulbs wiki page for pictures. Hamish, the California deer where I live are undeterred with most all of the folk remedies and the ones visiting my garden were especially attracted to some of the sprays meant to keep them away. Maybe the New Jersey deer are different. When we first moved here I didn't want to have a fence so I tried all I read about first. We then fenced one area at a time until finally we did our whole property. We have had a couple visitors since. Twice was during the day when the gate is open and in the beginning we learned that deer can jump over 6 feet. But they seemed to have given up now. Other unknown creatures get under the fence (rabbits?) and the Crested Blue Vultures (Scrub Jays) and I continue to battle for my plant tags. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From brutem@mcn.org Sun Oct 12 12:15:13 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031012090805.00c6c1f0@mail.mcn.org> From: Bob Rutemoeller Subject: Crested Blue Vultures Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 09:13:53 -0700 Mary Sue wrote: and the Crested Blue Vultures (Scrub Jays) and I continue to battle for my plant tags. Slight correction. My pet name for "Crested Blue Vultures" is for our Stellar Jays. They have a peak on top of their head. Many here also call them Blue Jays. The Scrub Jays are also known as "Uphill Planters" as they plant acorns everywhere. I suspect both are potential culprits for removing plant tags. They are getting even with us for taking out "their" raspberry plants. Cheers, Bob Bob Rutemoeller brutem@mcn.org From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Sun Oct 12 13:19:13 2003 Message-Id: <20031012171835.30515.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Brunsvigia grandiflora seeds Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:18:35 -0700 (PDT) I would like to thank all those involved also. Mine are doing just fine (last I looked at them last week). Mine sat on the file cabinet for several days (a week or so maybe) before they were planted. They had all formed small bulbs and an emerging leaf. They are now beachside in full sun (were I accidentally left them before going away for a few days). I haven't seen them since I put them there. I hope the medium did not dry out. Like Paul, I am very reluctant to plant amaryllids immediately. I love getting amaryllids from S. Africa. They are usually well sprouted in transit. And those that aren't, usually rot for me. I prefer to hold seeds in plastic to retain the moisture and keep seeds fresher. I hold all my Hippeastrum seed in plastic to prevent the seeds from drying as I find it keeps more of the seed viable. Once dry, it is harder to get a good germination percentage. I have been chastised by clients for this though. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Oct 12 15:11:12 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031012120632.00b74ae0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: New photos on wiki Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:11:00 -0700 I have just posted a photo of Biarum pyrami to the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Biarum_pyrami.jpg A description is on the Biarum page. The seeds were sown in 1997 and took 2 years to germinate, then another 4 years to bloom, but it was worth the wait as this is a pretty impressive flower for a Biarum. It smells bad, though, as one might expect. I also posted a photo of Colchicum glossophyllum: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_glossophyllum.jpg However, I was not able to access the Colchicum page to edit it, so there is no description yet. This is a name that one authority (Brickell, I think, though the entry is unsigned) says is a variant of C. cupanii; however, as you can see in the photo, the leaves are much broader and longer at anthesis than is typical of C. cupanii as I have seen it. The deep purple anthers are quite striking. This is a very small Colchicum species and usually blooms earlier here. Both these were taken today, Oct. 12. I also tried to photograph Narcissus humilis, but I could not get the digital camera to focus on it properly, so I'll take a slide just to prove I flowered it (once, probably). Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From john@johnlonsdale.net Sun Oct 12 15:24:01 2003 Message-Id: <000001c390f6$5c40a1c0$6401a8c0@John> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: New photos on wiki Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:23:46 -0400 Jane wrote "However, I was not able to access the Colchicum page to edit it, so there is no description yet. This is a name that one authority (Brickell, I think, though the entry is unsigned) says is a variant of C. cupanii; however, as you can see in the photo, the leaves are much broader and longer at anthesis than is typical of C. cupanii as I have seen it. The deep purple anthers are quite striking. This is a very small Colchicum species and usually blooms earlier here. Both these were taken today, Oct. 12. I also tried to photograph Narcissus humilis, but I could not get the digital camera to focus on it properly, so I'll take a slide just to prove I flowered it (once, probably)." I grow this colchicum as C. cupanii var. glossophyllum, mine was an accession of Mike Salmon's. I have no clue as to the 'correct' nomenclature but I do have a variety of forms, vars. and sub-species which have tremendous variation in flowering time, color and leaf morphology. Like most of the rest of the genus, the nomenclature is a mess. Most are lovely. I flowered several forms of Narcissus serotinus this fall, also two ssp. of N. humilis. They certainly need heat to ripen but the bulbs also need to be a certain size. The N. humilis flower reliably, N. serotinus less so. I also flowered N. perezlarae, the hybrid between N. cavanillesii and N. serotinus. I'm thinking that cavanillesii is synonymous with humilis, maybe superceded it? Either way the hybrid is lovely and very variable in color from a good yellow to a creamy pale yellow. J. Dr John T Lonsdale, 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Sun Oct 12 17:51:08 2003 Message-Id: <3F89CCB9.9040300@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Lycoris xhoudyshelii and fall crocus Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:50:49 -0500 Please contact me privately for special offers on subject items. Thanks. -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From msittner@mcn.org Sun Oct 12 18:00:43 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031010195804.00b3fbb0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Gordon Summerfield on Growing Bulbs Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:57:27 -0700 Dear All, I promised you I would tell you a little of what I learned from Gordon Summerfield, an expert grower of South African bulbs from his talk (Creating the Right Environment and Conditions for Growing Bulbous Plants) and my several conversations with him. So here is my attempt. Gordon took up growing bulbs seriously after he retired, but he told us he had been growing for 15 years. Many of the things he had read in books didn't turn out to work well for him. He now grows with what he calls a common sense approach. And he spends a lot of time looking at his plants, pollinating them, collecting seed, cleaning seed, putting information on his data base, etc. He says he has never been so busy in his life! He also plays golf, but most of his energy goes into managing his collection. I seem to recall the figure of 3000 pots. He grows a lot of different species, but they are mostly from the winter rainfall area. He seems to have a fondness for Gladiolus, Romulea, and Lachenalia although we saw many others in bloom as well. Along with three other IBSA friends (Berger van Eeden, Rossouw Malherbe, and Henry Pauw) Gordon drives his four wheel drive out into the Veld to search for plants. They make friends with farmers, get permission to go exploring on their property, and then when the flowers are closed stop for tea and conversation. They have found many an unusual plant or form this way and Gordon has the reputation for being a good spotter and for remembering where they saw plants when they come back to collect seed. So some of the things he grows were collected from their travels. Gordon also sells his bulbs and seed that he has saved from his plants. Here is a picture my husband took of Gordon and Bob Werra the night of the IBSA dinner. Gordon is the one pointing his finger. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/GordonS_BobW_c.jpg First he suggests (and this we have talked about a lot on this list) that you try to duplicate the natural growing conditions of the bulb. To do this you need to know about where they grow. Mix and Watering: Gordon uses a mix of about 1/2 good potting mix and 1/2 grainy sand. He used to try other things but found that his plants benefited from the added nutrients in the potting mix. The grainy sand, and we are talking coarse sand, helps with drainage (translated air filled porosity). Many of the winter rainfall bulbs like acidic soil, but not all so again it is helpful to know where they grow. Freesia leichtlinii grows in limestone for instance. Summer rainfall bulbs often need a higher PH so adding lime to your mix may be helpful. He feels that there is a myth about plants rotting from too much water. If your soil mix is correct, you cannot over water he says. It is much worse to let your plants dry out too much. In spite of saying you can't overwater, he does believe that leaves may need protection, especially from the early morning dews. He found this to be especially true for Lachenalias, Romuleas, and Gladiolus. So he grows many of these under cover of a high roof with open sides. Here is a picture that shows his pots and the structure: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Summerfield_bulbs3.jpg Both he and Alan Horstmann told me a lot of Romuleas grow in very wet spots and you couldn't give them too much water. Species he mentioned were komsbergensis, tortulosa, atrandra, diversiformis, stellata. Plants like Daubenya and Massonia need good light however. Good light, but protection from the dew will reduce crown rot and fungal diseases. Watering from the bottom will help as well. (Just a note--The thought of watering all those pots Gordon has from the bottom was mind boggling. He didn't seem to be doing it for very many, so perhaps he had learned which ones were crucial to water this way.) He advised me that some of the Lachenalias from very dry habitats that I have successfully killed should be watered from below. As for summer water during dormancy he thought corms did not need it, but bulbs with perennial roots would. If his plants have not started growing by April 15th he gives them a good soaking. Gordon advises a southeast facing aspect (that must translate to northwest in the Northern hemisphere?). The late sun is harsher and harder on your plants. Some plants open facing south and never turn around so you need to site them accordingly. One very interesting point that I don't think I'd heard stressed before was how deep to plant. He advised to observe in nature how deep the bulb grows. Most of us can't do that, but we can see when we repot where the bulbs are. If you plant at the wrong depth, the plant won't flower until it is at the correct depth. So if every year you repot and change where they want to be you may never get them to bloom. If they are planted too deep you may lose them because they won't grow well enough to survive over time. It is best therefore to err on planting too shallowly. You won't lose the plants; they may just wait to bloom until they have pulled themselves down to a more comfortable level. When you have as many pots as Gordon does there is no way you can repot every year. He has discovered which plants need repotting and which do not. Otherwise I think he observes during the growing season to decide which to repot the following season. I had asked him over dinner about why the Cape Encyclopedia advises not disturbing Lapeirousias. I have not had good luck with them and have been repotting them most years so wondered if that was why. He said they liked to be planted deeply (which was news to me since most are not very big). Bulbs with a flat bottom like Lapeirousias are best planted at a 40 degree angle as it is easier for their roots to go down in that position. Words on Moraea--a lot prefer not to be repotted. Exception is gigandra which produces a lot of corms from stolons. Fertilizing--He believes that it is a myth that South African bulbs should not be fed. He advised avoiding super phosphates which he says many of the bulbs hate and feels bone meal has no value at all. Also he doesn't think foliar feeding is helpful. Here is his formula for feeding: Magnesium sulfate--If leaves are yellow or the tips brown need this Ammonium sulfate--Provides nitrogen. He says contrary to opinion bulbs need nitrogen Potassium sulfate--Helps the new leaves, if they are purplish they need this Kelp--This helps with formation of the bulb for the next season. He adds 1 Tablespoon to a gallon of water in the middle of the growing season. Both he and Henry Pauw add small amounts of these and dissolve them in water instead of mixing them in the soil. My notes mention problems with mealy bugs, aphids, red spider mites so these beasties seem world wide. He told us to cut down the incidence of rust by treating the soil, but I didn't note how. As for plants that look sickly, he would not toss them out without first trying to help them by adjusting the watering schedule or feeding them. They may just be stressed and not have the nutrients or trace elements they need. The first day we saw Gordon he told us he had been out pollinating. That was surprising since it was pouring rain. But he said it was a good day to pollinate (obviously a lot of flowers would be closed, but things like Lachenalia which he has a lot of and which are under cover would be open.) The pollinators would not be out and he could accumulate pollen before they got it. Gordon is very careful to avoid hybridizing his seed so he wants to be the one to pollinate his flowers. He takes barbecue sticks and wraps them himself with cotton and dabs them with glycerine. Others might use cotton bobs but he likes the different widths he can get by making his own and that these sticks are longer and easier to place in the pots. He collects the pollen on the stick and then places that stick in the pot with those plants he has gathered pollen from. Then on the next warm day he can go back and pollinate the flowers. If he ends up with hybrids (something perhaps that comes up in a pot), he doesn't throw them out, but puts them in his garden to enjoy. He just doesn't want to sell bulbs or seed unless he can be sure they are what they are supposed to be. The picture below was taken that day in the rain when Lauw de Jager, Patty Colville, and I are looking at his flowering bulbs under the cover. He has on the blue coat. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Summerfield_bulbs3.jpg Gordon has found that bulbs that are rescued and therefore dug and without soil and out of water or bulbs that may get inadvertently knocked over by animals that you later find lying on the ground can be transplanted without any shock if you treat them by soaking them in ordinary water for 24-36 hours before you replant them. It is the roots you need to hydrate. You keep the leaves dry and the bulbs and corms out of water although this is not so crucial with corms which can tolerate being wet. Once they are replanted water them well and leave them. Do not cut off the foliage. If the plant has already lost its leaves, it can be stored dry. Seed Advice--I have not always been able to get good germination from Spiloxene so I asked about it. It had seeded itself about in his pots so obviously it shouldn't be hard to grow. I mentioned in another email that Gordon has an amazing collection of different forms of Spiloxene capensis. One of these days I'll get pictures of them on the wiki I hope. He suggested I sow the seed (which is tiny) uncovered without sand or grit and then cover the pot with plastic wrap to maintain the moisture. Water from below so as not to disturb the seed. When the leaves start to emerge you can anchor the seed with a little sand. The same procedure can be used for other tiny seeds like Ornithogalum. He advised patience and leaving some of the small ones in the same pot for a long time. This final picture shows the room that Gordon has managed to talk his wife into letting him have to manage the business and store his seed. He has not only written the name of the plants but the place where the original seed was collected and he is keeping seed of the same species therefore separated. That's me behind him smiling when I saw all those containers of seed. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Summerfield_seeds.jpg Hopefully some of you will find this interesting and helpful. Others may disagree with some of his findings. This is what works for him. Hopefully I'll be corrected if I got any of this confused. Lauw tried very hard to persuade Gordon to join this forum, but I could see that he wasn't going to succeed. Gordon doesn't feel he has time. He did say he'd answer questions if anyone had them and we could send them through his daughter. Lauw volunteered to be the contact person for the group. A very wonderful quality about Gordon is that he really does want people to be successful growing bulbs and he is willing to share all his secrets. Sometimes experts keep their secrets to themselves. And he says he wants to know if people have success with his seeds or not. If they don't have success, there has to be a reason and he is eager to change this. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Sun Oct 12 18:08:27 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031012150449.01ac1df0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Gordon Summerfield on Growing Bulbs-Wrong Link Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:06:40 -0700 Dear All, I meant to check my links before I sent the last message out. I've listed one of them twice. The second one that shows Gordon's bulb collection (on a rainy day) should be: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Summerfield_bulbs4.jpg Sorry. Mary Sue From jglatt@ptd.net Sun Oct 12 18:46:35 2003 Message-Id: <000c01c39114$544e58e0$ed21bacc@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: Garden Pests Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 18:57:57 -0400 Small and large furry vermin are part and parcel of my gardening experience. The organic pest control devices (mine are grey, and the male is, surprisingly, the better hunter. The elderly black lady is rather beyond it at 17 years old.) are reasonably successful on voles, white-footed deer mice, chipmunks and baby rabbits. There are also great horned owls, red tailed hawks, red foxes, coyotes, etc. that are also part of the local landscape, and also part of the balancing act with smaller vermin. I suspect that the woodchuck (= groundhog) that usually grazes on the front lawn recently discovered Ipomoea 'Margerite' - the wretch had to be up in a large container that itself is up on a stand, in order to do as thorough a job of eating off the large spade-shaped chartreuse leaves as it did. Stark petioles now stabbing forth from the trailing stems. Oh well, frost would have gotten them soon in any event. BTW - woodchuck also eats Pulmonaria 'Majeste' - chomps down the foliage, waits a few weeks for it to regrow, eats his salad all over again. Deer are not too much of a problem because I usually avoid their favorite foods, such as tulips and dahlias. The usual run of spring geophytes: narcissus, galanthus, chionodoxa, arisaema, scilla, sanguinaria, Dicentra cucullaria, Corydalis solida, etc are not bothered. Camassia also left alone, as are canna. Deer will taste-test Hyacinthoides, but they just nip the leaf shoot as it emerges, resulting in square-topped leaves. I had an electric fence in Connecticut. Worked like a charm - Gallagher charger, developed in New Zealand for sheep fencing, so excellent with deer (they have hollow hair, insulates better than the usual coat on cattle or horses.) Two fences, strung with high-tensile wire, pair of fences spaced about 2 feet apart - avoid a big enough gap for in-and-out jumping. Deer have lousy depth perception - as a prey species their eyes are set more to the sides of the head to see what's coming up after them. Predators have better binocular vision with eyes towards the front for improved depth perception. Two wires on the outer fence, three on the inner fence, spacing all so they do not line up. And if you really want to reinforce the learning curve - turn the fence off. Cut strips of tin foil. Smear peanut butter on the lower half. Crimp unsmeared end onto topmost, outer fence wire. Turn back on. When deer lick the peanut butter they'll get a shocking reminder to stay away. This site is more difficult to fence - slope is greater, cut with several drainage channels and intermittent creek, also configuration of house/ garage in landscape awkward to arrange fencing to permit entry without opening a gate. Cost quote I was given was so exorbitant I decided to do without. I do use some repellant sprays. In "Made for the Shade" I wrote an entire appendix on coping with deer that runs the gamut from fencing to repellants both commercial and home-made and how to use, and a list of shade-tolerant plants less eaten by deer. If gardening were simple and successful with little effort we'd get complacent. When a troop of wild turkeys struts across the back lawn I can forgive the infrequent damage they do when kicking around (think chickens on steroids.) Heck, I came out of the woods one day and found a neighbor's peacock sampling a leaf here, a flower there. Didn't much care, it was such an unexpected treat. And while I didn't see the black bear that came through one spring a couple of years ago, he was more interested in bird feeders (we don't have any, unfair what with the cats) and greasy barbecue grills than garden plants. About soap Hamish - yes, it works on a certain level. Best bet is use something really smells, shave it into curls, and put it in a plastic bag with microperforations. Zip-lock used to sell them for vegetable storage, but no longer available. I believe quart size can be bought in Canada, but pint size are gone for good. I have a few boxes of pints stock-piled away. Yes, keep soap higher off the ground - skunks eat it. The technique I heard that appeals the most is to have a nice venison dinner, wait a few hours, the go pee around the property. Supposedly it lets deer know that something that eats them is in the area. Alas, my aim is not so good . . . . Judy in New Jersey where the autumn color is beginning to intensify, part and parcel of the pleasures of living in the Northeastern woodlands. From Blee811@aol.com Sun Oct 12 22:47:31 2003 Message-Id: <188.202468c9.2cbb6c3d@aol.com> From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: Homemade deer repellants Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 22:47:25 EDT Judy Glattstein referred to homemade concoctions for repelling deer. A gardener friend told me recently to add Wiltpruf to whatever you make up to make it last longer. My mix consists of very old eggs, garlic, pepper flakes, and some liquid Joy. It smells terrible. I have read somewhere that Wiltpruf will harm some plants--don't know which ones, so this might bear investigate before trying it. I've even had a few reports of deer eating daffodils, which is very unusual. In this part of the country we have the white-tailed deer--beautiful animals, but what they don't eat they kill by rubbing tree bark off. Bill Lee z6a Cincinnati From msittner@mcn.org Mon Oct 13 11:03:35 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031013075003.01fe0600@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Companion plants to Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:02:12 -0700 Dear All, As a continuation of our discussion on landscaping with plants this week's topic is companion plants to bulbs. Some of you have already included this in your postings last week so we have a start. When you grow bulbs in your garden, what do you find you can plant with them either to cover up the foliage when it is drying or to give pleasing combinations? Which plants have you found work as ground covers that bulbs can grow through? So often bulbs need light to do well so most of us have found that some things that were once fine begin to shade out the plants (unless that is what the plants prefer) and they no longer bloom. Also if you use bulbs in your garden alone unless they are evergreen there will be a time when that part looks a little ratty. Please share with everybody what works for you and be sure and include information about where you live when you do so. Thanks. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Oct 13 22:09:47 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031013101714.00b92cf8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Companion plants to Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:43:43 -0700 As I've mentioned before, I grow the great majority of my bulbs in frames, so "companion planting" isn't an issue there. However, I do grow a lot of more common bulbs in the garden, and here are some ideas that have worked for me. 1. When you see photos of tulips in the wild, they're blooming at snowmelt time, with dry grasses around them. This effect can be suggested by planting the brown New Zealand sedges such as Carex petriei and interplanting them with bright species tulips (T. hageri has proven especially perennial here, also T. tarda and T. urumiensis). These sedges are invasive by seed in some climates, though not in my garden. Other bulbs that are attractive in this setting are Iris reticulata and Muscari latifolium (invasive in some climates, not here). Another grass that can be used this way is Deschampsia caespitosa, which does not "run." 2. Muscari azureum and M. armeniacum are not always to be feared, as long as you plant them under large shrubs and trees where their increase and lank foliage will not annoy you. Here they grow (in addition to places I wish they didn't) under a border of small ornamental trees and shrubs such as Acer griseum, Cornus mas, Stewartia, and Viburnum burkwoodii. The area can be sprayed with Round-up when the Muscari is dormant to hold down the weeds. This setting is also appropriate for Cyclamen hederifolium. (C. coum is more often grown in shady rock gardens in this region.) 3. If you, too, have made the mistake of planting sweet woodruff (Galium odoratum), you can plant Spanish bluebells (Hyacinthoides campanulata) under it. Use the pink or blue kind. This robust bulb flowers at the same time as the woodruff and is just as ineradicable. 4. Spreading dwarf shrubs can provide just enough winter protection for winter-growing foliage of marginally hardy bulbs. I have some Muscari macrocarpum doing well under the contorted form of Chaenomeles (flowering quince), although this species is not generally regarded as very cold-hardy. 5. In this cool Mediterranean climate, I have found the best Narcissus for naturalizing in rough grass are cyclamineus hybrids such as 'February Gold' and 'Jenny', and also the species Narcissus pseudonarcissus ssp. (?) obvallaris, or "obvallaris," or however one is supposed to call it. They tolerate ground water running above them during winter, and complete drying in summer. 6. Some regard Crocus tommasinianus as a weed, but it is the best species for growing in lawns, because its leaves lie flat, so that mowing doesn't bother it as much as it would species with erect leaves. Do buy the named deep-colored clones such as 'Whitwell Purple' for best effect. 7. If you don't like to see Colchicum foliage in late spring, hardy geraniums will cover it up at the right time -- but be sure not to plant the kinds that seed all over (there are a few sterile hybrids). 8. Nepeta mussinii, a low-growing ornamental "catnip," flowers all summer and is a good perennial to follow spring bulbs (you can cut it back to the base in fall to give the bulbs room). Origanum libanoticum (current name?) and its hybrid 'Kent Beauty' can be used in the same way; however, steer clear of the taller ornamental oreganos such as 'Herrnhausen', which are ferociously invasive. In the rock garden, prostrate shrubby penstemons such as P. newberryi serve the same purpose. Lately I've also planted the biennial Campanula incurva, a prostrate version of Canterbury bells (C. medium), in a bulb bed. Bulbs will grow up through low sedums and the more restrained helianthemums. If your climate permits it (mine doesn't), I see no reason not to mix spring bulbs with the low-growing Alstroemeria species such as A. pallida and A. hookeri, which will bloom later, though that still leaves a bare period in late summer; the alstros, given a deep root run, will do their growing much deeper than their smaller companions. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon. USA From angelopalm69@inwind.it Mon Oct 13 15:30:13 2003 Message-Id: <000f01c391c0$1d30ed80$a7b0623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: New photos on Wiki Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:27:59 +0200 Jane and all, I have uploaded two other photos of Colchicum cupanii, showing a white form and an intermediate one. They can be seen at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_cupanii_album.jpg and http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_cupanii6.JPG Angelo From eagle85@flash.net Mon Oct 13 15:55:52 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Haemanthus crispus leaves on the WIKI Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:45:24 -0700 Several have asked to see the leaves of the Haemanthus crispus. I have added a picture of the leaves at http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Haemanthus%20crispus%20leaves.jpg Doug Westfall From c-mueller@tamu.edu Mon Oct 13 22:00:41 2003 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: Companion plants to Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:00:23 -0500 I've tried something a little different on my dry, sandy slope that gets relentless sun, especially in the afternoon. I have rainlilies and Rhodophiala seedlings in a swath of Texas frog fruit, Phylla incisa. It is a low-growing member of the Verbenaceae and lies in a crawling, rooting-at-the-nodes mat over the ground. The small, typically verbena nodules with white blooms are very attractive to butterflies and it is a host plant to White Peacock, Buckeye, Phaon Crescentspot. So while the flowers are not showy, the plant is not chokingly thick, either. If it becomes too tall, cut it down here and there. Flowers will appear March-November. It's best virtues are that the narrow leaves stay green, and the plant manages to stay alive on hot, sunny slopes. I dipped up my start of it from off the side of the road. Other Phylla species in Texas are Diamond-leaf (P. strigillosa) and Northern (P. lanceolata), but I'm not familiar with them. Another ground cover for similar circumstances are Delosperma cooperi (which does not freeze dead here) and in the summer some of the flat, mat-forming hybrid portulacas with magenta blossoms. One in particular available here (and comes back from seed, but rather late in the scheme of things) has very compact, narrow leaves that usually lies on the ground no matter how mature the plant gets. Cynthia W. Mueller College Station, Tx Zone 8b-9 From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Tue Oct 14 01:28:29 2003 Message-Id: <20031014052828.92686.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Gordon Summerfield on Growing Bulbs Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:28:28 -0700 (PDT) Mary Sue, Thank you for all that info. It certianly fills in a few blanks for me. I will definitely try a few of the things Gordon recommends from your notes. I have had a hard time with some of the fine seeds (such as Sinningias). I will try the watering from the bottom and hope that works. The problem with watering from the bottom is that if you have salt in your water, it builds up on the top of the soil (ergo seed area) instead of being flushed through. I have always wanted to be able to live in an area with great water but I chose to live in an urban area. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From roberth6@mac.com Tue Oct 14 07:05:36 2003 Message-Id: <1500B6A0-FE36-11D7-A82A-0003938EDBFA@mac.com> From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Gordon Summerfield on Growing Bulbs Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:03:46 +1100 Thanks Mary Sue, for sharing your enlightening experience with Gordon Summerfield. I have a query for Gordon and I wonder if Lauw will pass it on. > Plants like Daubenya and Massonia need good light however. Good light, > but protection from the dew will reduce crown rot and fungal diseases. > Watering from the bottom will help as well. This statement implies that Daubenya and Massonia are grown under cover to prevent dew and rainfall on the leaves. This being the case do they remain totally dry for the summer months ? If not how often are they watered during dormancy ? What about watering management for first and second year seedlings during summer ? Do they tolerate the same management as mature bulbs ? Having just watched the leaves on a mature Massonia echinata disappear from crown rot ,( we had what amounts to half our years average annual rainfall during August and September ) , the under cover management appeals to me , as I have quite a range of first and second year seedlings of both genera. Thanks in anticipation. Rob in Tasmania Zone 9 equivalent From dells@voicenet.com Tue Oct 14 08:47:09 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: BX 44 IN THE MAIL Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:46:48 -0400 As of today, the packages from this offering are on their way to all of you who ordered. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From dells@voicenet.com Tue Oct 14 12:10:29 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 45 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:09:57 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 45" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Mary Sue Ittner: SEED: 1. Allium dichlamydeum-pink, winter growing 2. Cyclamen creticum--W 3. Cyclamen hederifolium--W 4. Delphinium cardinale--This one is from yellow flowered ones, not like John Ingram's red ones, but very tall, summer blooming, loved by snails and slugs, W http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Delphinium_cardinale_yellow.jpg 5. Delphinium hesperium--purple, wild collected seed, W. 6. Dichelostemma multiflorum, W., one of the nicest Dichelostemmas I think 7. Geissorhiza inflexa-lovely red, see wiki picture, W. 8. Geissorhiza imbricata-white, late blooming, W. 9. Gladiolus angustus-Tall, white flowers in late spring, W. 10. Lapeirousia corymbosa--Gorgeous blue-purple small flowers, see Wiki, W. 11. Orthrosanthus polystachyus--Australian, evergreen, blue flowers 12. Pacific Coast Iris hybrid--Purple, evergreen 13. Sparaxis metelerkampiae--This is one of the prettier species of what was once Synnotia, South African irid-W 14. Triteleia bridgsii--California native, very pretty, see wiki pictures, W. 15. Triteleia laxa--This form is very tall and doesn't offset a lot, but has more flowers each year, W. 16. Triteleia peduncularis--white flowers in large umbel, W. 17. Tritonia flabellifolia--long tubed, blooms late spring, W. 18. Zigadenus fremontii--tall white, long blooming. I offered this last year and was going to skip it, but Jane said it was very nice. She was surprised at how big it was, W. From Jane McGary: SEED: 19. Alstroemeria sp., probably pulchra ssp. maxima, a large rather cold-hardy plant with very large inflorescence of mid-pink flowers. 20. Alstroemeria aff. hookeri, sent misnamed to me from the Watson collections; smaller species, white to pale pink flowers with dark red markings. 21. Triteleia peduncularis 22. Dichelostemma multiflorum 23. Allium platycaule 24. Brodiaea elegans Extras from the IBSA Symposium: SEED: (limited supplies) 25. Albuca angloescensis ex Derick McKenzie (3 pkts) 26. Baeometra uniflora (3 pkts) 27. Bulbinella cauda-felis (2 pkts) 28. Cyanella hyacinthoides (2 pkts) 29. Cyanella ramosissima (1 pkt) 30. Ferraria divaricata (2 pkts) 31. Geissorhiza ornithogaloides (1 pkt) 32. Gladiolus geardii (2 pkts) 33. Gladiolus liliaceus (3 pkts) 34. Lachenalia gillettii (1 pkt) 35. Lachenalia violacea (1 pkt) From Kelly Irvin: 36. Lycoris sprengeri seed - open pollinated with L. longituba and L. chinensis in bloom close by. 37. Pinellia pedatisecta seedlings (I THINK). I can't figure out what else they could be in the area I found them. The single leaf arising from the little bulbil looks just like Arum, and that's the only member of Araceae I had in the area. Pictures of the flowering plant at Bulbmeister.COM Gallery Thank you, Mary Sue, Jane, Kelly, and the donors and facilitators from the IBSA !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From rmsachs@ucdavis.edu Tue Oct 14 13:01:44 2003 Message-Id: From: "Roy M. Sachs" Subject: Off topic: aphid preference for a weed Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:04:20 -0700 For the past year I've seen little or no black or green aphids on alstroemeria, but multitudes of them on Crepis species (they are pernicious annual weeds in my greenhouse, field and shade shelters). Most of the aphids don't begin to go to the Crepis until they have begun to bolt, form an inflorescence axis. The USDA has a page-full of Crepis pics at, http://plants.usda.gov/cgi_bin/plant_profile.cgi?symbol=CRTE3. Can't find mention of this in our Integrated Pest Management pubs. Anyone out there with info or can confirm this seeming preference of aphids for Crepis? Also I should note that our rabbit population seems to prefer the Crepis (before bolting when they are excellent salad leaves) to alstroemeria...not that I'm trying to feed the rabbits. Roy Davis, California; Sacramento Valley, very hot summers (over 40 C), wet and cool winters (rarely down to -4 C except when Siberian express drops temps to -8 C) with moderate spring and fall temps. Dry winds are the norm in summer and fall. From angelopalm69@inwind.it Tue Oct 14 13:54:00 2003 Message-Id: <000b01c3927b$d55a3f40$04b1623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Companion plants to Bulbs--TOW Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:51:08 +0200 In addition to Cynthia list, I am using Delosperma lydenburgense (which is much hardier then any cooperi form) on Narcissus beds. This delosperma flowers continuosly from late spring to all winter and grows fast and doesn't need any watering, or at least I don't water it at all !! So the dormancy of narcissus is respected. On Amaryllis belladonna I use instead the portulacas, because these are annuals and during the winter the amaryllis leaves would suffocate any perennial. Even these aren't watered at all and I would recommend everyone in Mediterranean climate growing large beds of Amaryllis or Haemanthus coccineus, to use this trick to cover the bare soil left from these wide leaved plants. Angelo Porcelli Italy From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Oct 14 22:09:52 2003 Message-Id: <3F8CAC6D.7060902@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Ripe fruit Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:09:49 -0400 Fruit of arisaema tortuosum. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Arisaema_tortusoum_2.JPG Arnold New Jersey From dells@voicenet.com Wed Oct 15 06:53:34 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 45 CLOSED Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 06:53:01 -0400 Dear All, Like hotcakes! I expect to be able to mail packages by next Monday. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From msittner@mcn.org Wed Oct 15 11:17:22 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031015075939.00ce2910@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Pacific BX 45 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:15:54 -0700 Dear All, I just wanted to say something about the IBSA seed. After the conference Rachel let us buy some left over seed at a discount so Patty Colville and I tried to figure out what people might want (always hard). I have had really good luck with IBSA seed. I'm not sure about the Albuca which may be summer rainfall but the rest should be started now in the Northern Hemisphere. Maybe the Albuca too since I don't think the shelf life is very long. There will be a little more IBSA seed in another BX as well. If Dell sends the original seed packets it will have the name on it of the person donating it in most cases. You may recognize some of the names from my posts. It may also have the name of the place it was collected if it was wild collected seed and a lot of it is. This can tell you a lot about the hardiness, rainfall, etc. In some cases there is seed of the same thing but collected in different places. Who ever ordered my Delphinium hesperium seed this was collected in Gualala (Northern California) on a bluff overlooking the ocean. (Notes about it: dark purple, full sun, summer rest, mild winter temperatures.) Mary Sue From dejager@bulbargence.com Wed Oct 15 15:11:12 2003 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Gordon Summerfield on Growing Bulbs Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:06:04 +0200 Dear Robert, I have passed your question on to Gordon. Awaiting th answer. But I will be away until Tuesday next week. Regards Lauw de Jager le 14/10/03 13:03, Robert Hamilton à roberth6@mac.com a écrit : for sharing your enlightening experience with Gordon Summerfield. > I have a query for Gordon and I wonder if Lauw will pass it on. > >> Plants like Daubenya and Massonia need good light however. Good light, >> but protection from the dew will reduce crown rot and fungal diseases. >> Watering from the bottom will help as well. > > This statement implies that Daubenya and Massonia are grown under > cover to prevent dew and rainfall on the leaves. This being the > case do they remain totally dry for the summer months ? If not how > often are they watered during dormancy ? What about watering management > for first and second year seedlings during summer ? Do they > tolerate the same management as mature bulbs ? > > Having just watched the leaves on a mature Massonia echinata > disappear from crown rot ,( we had what amounts to half our years > average annual rainfall during August and September ) , the under cover > management appeals to me , as I have quite a range of first and > second year seedlings of both genera. Bulb'Argence From hkoopowi@uci.edu Wed Oct 15 16:27:55 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.2.20031015132720.00b38bc0@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Gordon Summerfield on Growing Bulbs Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:28:11 -0700 Hi: In southern California - we keep them in pots and bone dry during the summer. Slight shade helps too. Harold At 09:06 PM 10/15/2003 +0200, you wrote: > Dear Robert, >I have passed your question on to Gordon. Awaiting th answer. But I will be >away until Tuesday next week. >Regards > >Lauw de Jager > > >le 14/10/03 13:03, Robert Hamilton à roberth6@mac.com a écrit : > for sharing your enlightening experience with Gordon Summerfield. > > I have a query for Gordon and I wonder if Lauw will pass it on. > > > >> Plants like Daubenya and Massonia need good light however. Good light, > >> but protection from the dew will reduce crown rot and fungal diseases. > >> Watering from the bottom will help as well. > > > > This statement implies that Daubenya and Massonia are grown under > > cover to prevent dew and rainfall on the leaves. This being the > > case do they remain totally dry for the summer months ? If not how > > often are they watered during dormancy ? What about watering management > > for first and second year seedlings during summer ? Do they > > tolerate the same management as mature bulbs ? > > > > Having just watched the leaves on a mature Massonia echinata > > disappear from crown rot ,( we had what amounts to half our years > > average annual rainfall during August and September ) , the under cover > > management appeals to me , as I have quite a range of first and > > second year seedlings of both genera. > >Bulb'Argence > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From GEOPHYTE@sbcglobal.net Thu Oct 16 02:23:59 2003 Message-Id: From: GEOPHYTE@sbcglobal.net Subject: Ripe fruit Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 02:23:58 -0500 Hello Arnold, I am envious of your Arisaema culture and collection. I love the big Arisaemas, but I have a little trouble keeping tortuosum and consanguineum alive, even though they are overwintered dry in the garage. Last year a large consanguineum rotted after the leaf collapsed in the fall. (no rain) This year I lost another consanguineum in the spring, shortly after I put it outside. I'm using a light mixture of potting mix and perlite or pumice, in containers. I tried leaving Amorphophallus konjac in the ground one winter and it rotted. What really confuses me is the fact that at the nearby Berkeley Botanical garden, A. tortuosum and consanguineum are thriving as part of the permanent woodland landscape. What kind of soil do you grow them in? Do you lift them in the winter? Approximately how much soil do you have covering the tops of the bulbs? I'd appreciate any advice you can offer. Thanks, Jamie Sunset zone 15, USDA 9 From arnold@nj.rr.com Thu Oct 16 18:55:56 2003 Message-Id: <3F8F21FB.2030401@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Ripe fruit Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:55:55 -0400 Jamie: Funny I wish I had your climate to grow other things. Its all about that forbidden fruit thing I guess. I grow all the arisaemas in normal garden soil except I usually add a couple of hands full of grit as I plant them. I get them from Seneca Hill Perennials in upstate New York. Ellen Hornig is a real careful small scale nursery owner that takes time and stands behind whatever she wells. The grit is somewhat like aquarium gravel. I think that some gardeners use chicken grit which is available at feed stores. I did have an episode of root mealy bugs which caused one of my tubers to die back. Luckily I was able to save them by digging them up and treating with a insecticide. Why are you over wintering in the garage? They are hardy here and we get down to 10 to 15 F routinely. I live ten minutes outside of NYC and we get wet winters and actually this spring and summer were the wettest on record. If you want some of the seeds of the tortuosum let me know and send and address. I was going to send them to the SX/BX for distribution to the group. Arnold From jshields104@insightbb.com Fri Oct 17 09:21:40 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031017080509.026c6468@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Arisaema. Was Re: Ripe fruit Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:21:38 -0500 Hi all, There are several very hardy Arisaema species here in central Indiana, where we get ca 36 inches of precipitation per year and in winter the temperatures drop to 0 to -10 degrees Fahrenheit most winters. We have been growing the following Arisaema here since 1999 (as specimen plants, not for sale): candidissimum consanguineum draconitum (native here) fargesii kishidae ringens sazensoo serratum sikokianum triphyllum (native here) They are grown in a woodland garden, in soil amended with sand and composted leaves, so that the surface is somewhat elevated above the surrounding grade level. The above species survived last winter and spring's heavy precip as well as low temps that hit -8°F three times and -11°F one morning. Besides Ellen Hornig, I have bought Arisaema from Asiatica. I can recommend both sources. For details, see: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/GLOVBulbs/SOURCES.html Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana USDA zone 5 At 06:55 PM 10/16/2003 -0400, Arnold wrote: >Jamie: > >Funny I wish I had your climate to grow other things. Its all about that >forbidden fruit thing I guess. > >I grow all the arisaemas in normal garden soil except I usually add a >couple of hands full of grit as I plant them. I get them from Seneca >Hill Perennials in upstate New York. Ellen Hornig is a real careful small >scale nursery owner that takes time and stands behind whatever she >wells. The grit is somewhat like aquarium gravel. I think that some >gardeners use chicken grit which is available at feed stores. > >I did have an episode of root mealy bugs which caused one of my tubers to >die back. Luckily I was able to save them by digging them up and treating >with a insecticide. > >Why are you over wintering in the garage? They are hardy here and we get >down to 10 to 15 F routinely. I live ten minutes outside of NYC and we >get wet winters and actually this spring and summer were the wettest on record. > >If you want some of the seeds of the tortuosum let me know and send and >address. I was going to send them to the SX/BX for distribution to the group. > >Arnold > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From msittner@mcn.org Fri Oct 17 10:43:25 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031017072112.01ab4220@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Allium picture on the wiki Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:42:04 -0700 Dear All, Some time ago Jane McGary loaded a very pretty picture of a yellow Allium on the wiki. Since Allium is a very large genus and Mark McDonough has created quite a number of Allium pages to make it more manageable, I am sure a lot of us are not exactly sure which Allium page to put pictures on. So this picture had not made it to a wiki page, but I thought a lot of you would enjoy seeing it. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Allium_scorzonerifolium.jpg It reminds me of Triteleia ixioides. Mark says that it is Allium scorzonerifolium ssp. xericiense, which is superior to the species as it is more floriferous. The species has bulbils in the inflorescence and only a few bright yellow flowers; "xericiense" is the showy non-bulbilliferous form. On the other hand the species is hardier and slow to increase so it makes a nice plant except it is small so needs to be protected from plant competition. Mark has lost this subspecies in his New England Zone 5 three or four times and has concluded he may have to overwinter it indoors to keep it going. I have added Jane's picture to the Miscellaneous Onion page for now. Maybe Jane can tell us how she grows it. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Oct 17 13:59:00 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031017105641.00b66e98@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Allium picture on the wiki Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:58:57 -0700 Thanks, Mary Sue, for placing and pointing out my photo of Allium scorzonerifolium ssp. xericense. This rather large and substantial Allium is indeed a good one, but I can't give much guidance on how to grow it because I have had it only one year, having bought it as a bulb from Michael Salmon's Monocot Nursery last year. I have it in a portion of my unheated bulb frames that is kept quite dry in summer. I sent in the photo because of the pleasing bright yellow color. The stem was about 16 inches (38 cm) tall. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Oct 17 22:56:16 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031017195311.00b72ce8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Crocus notes Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 19:56:12 -0700 I have placed a few Crocus pictures on the wiki -- Crocus hadriaticus forms, and also one of Crocus pulchellus 'Inspiration': http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Crocus_pulchellus_Inspir.jpg There are two very odd flowers in this photo, scalloped on the edges. I would appreciate experts' opinions on whether this is a virus symptom or more likely the result of some damage that may have happened when the corms were repotted 2 months ago. I have picked off the weird flowers now. I'd hate to have to discard this lovely (and expensive) Dutch clone, which has performed well for four years here. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From dells@voicenet.com Sat Oct 18 10:12:46 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: BX 45 in the mail Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:12:23 -0400 Dear All, Packages will go into the mail today. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From kopurdy@earthlink.net Sat Oct 18 14:23:33 2003 Message-Id: From: Kathleen Purdy Subject: Introducing myself Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:23:36 -0400 Hello all, I am responding to the invitation in the "Welcome" message to introduce myself. I joined this list to find out more about colchicums. When we moved to our 100+ year old house in 1989, there were some colchicums growing on the property which I believe are C. byzantinum. I have been reading about, buying, and growing colchicums ever since, often with frustrating results. I often find (or at least, believe) them to be incorrectly named. Does anyone else run into this? Is it common? I would appreciate learning of bulb sellers who can be trusted to be reliably correct in what they send. In the meantime, I invite you to visit my weblog at http://weblog.coldclimategardening.com and look over my recent posts and photos about my colchicum collection. The photos are not as good as those I found on your wiki (which is how I came to subscribe to this list), but if anyone can confirm or correct any of my identifications I would be very grateful. Please use the comment feature so others can benefit as well. As time permits, I plan to search the list archives as well. Looking forward to learning more! -- Kathy Purdy USDA Hardiness Zone 4/5 northeast of Binghamton, NY www.coldclimategardening.com From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Sat Oct 18 17:43:00 2003 Message-Id: <3F91B3DE.6090201@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Pacific BX 44 - price break down Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 16:42:54 -0500 Dell: Can you let me know how BX costs are tabulated? I thought each item was one or two dollars. The slip shows $28.50 for a packet's worth of each of the following. >21. Zephyranthes reginae >22. Habranthus gracilifolius >23. Habranthus sp, good yellow form >25. Zephyranthes "Libra" >26. Habranthus magnoi >27. Zephyranthes macrosiphon >28. Zephyranthes "Thad" >29. Zpehyranthes primulina > > -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Sat Oct 18 17:44:03 2003 Message-Id: <3F91B41E.2070403@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Pacific BX 44 - price break down - oops Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 16:43:58 -0500 The message was meant for Dell. My apologies. -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From plants_man@bigpond.com Sat Oct 18 19:17:25 2003 Message-Id: <000e01c395cd$addea5f0$8efa8690@userbwbb7lkmiq> From: Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan Subject: Latest List Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:15:08 +1000 Greetings, I have recently finished our latest list. If you would like a copy please email me privately at plants_man@bigpond.com or can be viewed in the link below. (there a few glitches I've yet to work out) Best wishes, Dash. Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan, Mainly Amaryllids Garden, P O Box 173, Barnawartha,Victoria,3688, Australia. +61 02 60267377 Visit my web site @ www.users.bigpond.com/plants_man/Home.htm Email the Australian Bulb Association at: support@ausbulbs.org ABA Web Sites: http://www.ausbulbs.org Checkout http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/ From mark@marksgardenplants.com Sat Oct 18 19:56:30 2003 Message-Id: <000701c395d3$78a84e80$13322ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Colchicum images Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 00:56:37 +0100 Hi all Now that my Colchicums have finished blooming, until the spring flowering varieties, I have added a photo album to my web site. They can be seen here http://www.marksgardenplants.com/colchicums.htm The only one I'm not sure about is C. giganteum which I got from the US a few years ago. A mental note from the time is they didnt have tunics nor the typical shape for a Colchicum bulb. Mark Northern Ireland zone 8 with a very warm 18C/64F today From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Oct 18 20:39:59 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031018173843.00b7ae38@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Crocus speciosus Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:39:53 -0700 I have added a photo of Crocus speciosus 'Artabir' in the garden to the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Crocus_speciosus_Artabir.jpg This cultivar has a lot of white in the center of its very large flowers and is an excellent garden plant, thriving here and multiplying without disturbance. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Oct 18 20:45:32 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031018174359.01987768@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Colchicum images Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:45:28 -0700 On Mark Smyth's COlchicum pictures, it's hard to tell how large the flowers are. The one he has labeled "Colchicum attica" (not a possible name) looks a lot like C. neapolitanum, but that is a little plant. How big is that flower, Mark? Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From onager@midtown.net Sat Oct 18 22:45:04 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031018194249.017b4710@pop3.midtown.net> From: Joyce Miller Subject: Latest List Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:45:01 -0700 Hi Daryl, Good day or night to you. I tried your link but it didn't work. Please email list. I'm slowing dowen on bulbs but one never knows when something will pop up. Kind regards, Joyce Miller Joyce E. Miller mailto:onager@midtown.net Zone USDA 9A Summer highs 100+degrees F for several to many days. Winter lows 27 degrees F From mark@marksgardenplants.com Sun Oct 19 04:48:21 2003 Message-Id: <001601c3961d$c80ab9f0$b1352ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Colchicum images Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:40:29 +0100 hi Jane It should be C atticum. The flower is the size of a finger. I'm editing the web page to show the flower compared to my finger and a 3 inch label. Mark N Ireland zone 8 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane McGary" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 1:45 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Colchicum images > On Mark Smyth's COlchicum pictures, it's hard to tell how large the flowers > are. The one he has labeled "Colchicum attica" (not a possible name) looks > a lot like C. neapolitanum, but that is a little plant. How big is that > flower, Mark? > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Sun Oct 19 08:13:16 2003 Message-Id: <40.35e5366c.2cc3d9c9@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Syringodea longituba Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 08:12:57 EDT I added two pictures: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Syringodea_longituba1.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Syringodea_longituba2.jpg of a plant acquired under this name. Can anyone confirm the ID? Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From dells@voicenet.com Sun Oct 19 08:31:36 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 46 Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 08:30:55 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 46" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From a trade with the Australian Bulb Association: SEED: (NOTE: supplies are limited) 1. Allium neopolitanum (3 pkts) 2. Cardiocrinum giganteum (3 pkts) 3. Lilium pink trumpets, dark shades (2 pkts) 4. Gladiolus oppositiflorus var salmoneus (2 pkts) 5. Arisaema tortuosum (2 pkts) 6. Pancratium maritimum (2 pkts) 7. Allium unifolium (4 pkts) 8. Allium hyalinum (3 pkts) 9. Allium cyrillii (3 pkts) 10 Allium christophii (2 pkts) 11. Babiana rubrocyanea (2 pkts) 12. Bellevalia romana (2 pkts) 13. Bellevalia dubia (2 pkts) 14. Eremerus himilaicus (1 pkt) 15. Geissorhiza inaequalis (3 pkts) From John Ingram: 16. Seed of Sinningia sellovii " These should be hardy to at least z7. I am testing them this year in z5 (N. Canton, Ohio). Mature plants have 100's of flowers per stem. Once the initial branch is done, the stem branched and pushes out 2 or 3 more stems with nearly as many flowers each. Mine has been blooming since last November. Plant in full sun to light shade. They bloom best in full sun. It also makes a great houseplant if you have the room. My bulbs are in 5 and 7 gallon containers and they are to the edges of them. The plant gets 2' tall with 2' flower spikes on top. In So. Cal it is evergreen with less bloom in the winter months and more during the months of May-August. For photos, go to Plant Delights web page. Tony sells them in 4" containers and mine are in 1 gallon that I sell. The flower color I would describe as a dusky salmon. It can bloom the first year from seed but the second year is more definite." 17. Seed of Delphinium nudicaule (as discussed earlier on this list) W From Angelo Porcelli: 18. Seed of Iris pseudopumila From Theresa Massey: 19. Seed of Rhodophiala bifida " These are the "oxblood" red rhodophiala grown in Austin, TX, and with a Texas provenance, as far as I can determine. I got my bulbs from a nursery that acquired them from a local farm." From Fred Boutin: 20. Seed of Chlorogalum pomeridianum, "soap plant", large fibrous bulb, lvs 2 ft., infl. 5 - 8 ft, flowers white and green open in afternoon, good drainage, winter/spring growth From IBSA donors through the kindness of Mary Sue Ittner, Pat Colville, and Rachel Saunders: (NOTE: supplies are limited) SEED: 21. Moraea alticola (1 pkt) 22. Moraea bellendenii (2 pkts) 23. Moraea lurida (3 pkts) 24. Moraea polystachya (1 pkt) 25. Moraea polyanthos (1 pkt) 26. Moraea speciosa (2 pkts) 27. Ornithogalum dubium (2 pkts) 28. Ornithogalum suaveolens (2 pkts) 29. Polyxena paucifolia (1 pkt) 30. Onixotis punctata (1 pkt) 31. Romulea flava (2 pkts) 32. Romulea obscura (2 pkts) 33. Romulea obscura var substacea (1 pkt) 34. Romulea tetragona (1 pkt) 35 Tritonnia florentiae (2 pkt) Thank you ABA, John, Angelo, Theresa, Fred, Mary Sue, Pat, and Rachel !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From nargsbs@efn.org Sun Oct 19 11:22:26 2003 Message-Id: From: "Ernie O'Byrne" Subject: Pacific BX 46 Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 08:23:34 -0700 Hi Dell, Please send #'s 16, 17, & 19 from BX 46. Thanks, Ernie O'Byrne Northwest Garden Nursery 86813 Central Road Eugene OR 97402-9284 Phone: 541 935-3915 FAX: 541 935-0863 From hkoopowi@uci.edu Sun Oct 19 11:29:02 2003 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20031019082832.017a4fc0@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Syringodea longituba Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 08:28:51 -0700 Looks like a crocus to me. Harold At 08:12 AM 10/19/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I added two pictures: >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Syringodea_longituba1.jpg >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Syringodea_longituba2.jpg >of a plant acquired under this name. Can anyone confirm the ID? > >Mark Mazer >Intarsia Ltd. >Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 >USA >www.therapyshapes.com >USDA Zone 5 >Giant Schnauzer Rescue >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Prof. Harold Koopowitz Ecology and Evolutionary Biology University of California, Irvine, CA 92697 From msittner@mcn.org Sun Oct 19 11:30:48 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031019081455.00ce5930@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Pacific BX 46 Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 08:29:24 -0700 Dear All, John Ingram told us about Delphinium cardinale, not D. nudicaule. So I think this one is wrongly named. 17. Seed of Delphinium nudicaule (as discussed earlier on this list) W Here is what I wrote: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2003-June/003151.html Delphinium cardinale is very tall and grows in Southern California in a very different kind of habitat then our Delphinium nudicaule from Northern California which is a much shorter plant, often found on shady wet banks and much earlier blooming. Here is one of the pictures of a very red one in the group where John found them that I added to the wiki for John. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Delphinium_cardinale_Jules.jpg I don't believe Angelo announced to the list when he recently added a picture to the wiki of the Iris in item #18. He is gradually adding pictures of all the geophytes where he lives in Italy. So for those of you who don't look for those phantom pictures being added and are wondering about this seed: Iris pseudopumila is a bearded species (Pogon section), endemic of Apulia and Sicily. It is thought to be the ancestral form of all the bearded Iris. It grows in shallow stony soils and flowers from January to March. Photo taken in habitat by Angelo Porcelli http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Iris_pseudopumila2.jpg Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Sun Oct 19 11:40:29 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031019083245.01ac25d0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Syringodea longituba Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 08:39:12 -0700 Hi Mark, Do you have the Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs (the South African bible I heard it called)? You must with all the bulbs you grow from this area. If you don't have it, you definitely should get it. It is very cheaply purchased through buy.com, or at least it was. I've never grown Syringodea as the only seed I've had never cameup. There is a picture and a description in that book although not as clear perhaps as yours. It looks very possible. What are the leaves like? (Leaves 5 to 8, filiform with a dorsal groove, often twisted.) To quote from that book, "Like a small-flowered crocus, syringodeas make a fleeting appearance in autumn or early winter, at a time when few other bulbs are in flower." I'm happy to see what yours looks like. Mary Sue From KKerston@aol.com Sun Oct 19 14:27:42 2003 Message-Id: <9.1aab9982.2cc43199@aol.com> From: KKerston@aol.com Subject: Pacific BX 46 Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:27:37 EDT In a message dated 10/19/2003 10:21:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dells@voicenet.com writes: > . I would be interested in some of the Sinningia seed thanks Kerry Kerston From nargsbs@efn.org Sun Oct 19 14:48:03 2003 Message-Id: From: "Ernie O'Byrne" Subject: Pacific BX 46 Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:49:07 -0700 Sorry to the list for forgetting to change the address to Dell's personal address. Ernie O'Byrne Northwest Garden Nursery 86813 Central Road Eugene OR 97402-9284 Phone: 541 935-3915 FAX: 541 935-0863 -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Ernie O'Byrne Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 8:24 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: RE: [pbs] Pacific BX 46 Hi Dell, Please send #'s 16, 17, & 19 from BX 46. Thanks, Ernie O'Byrne Northwest Garden Nursery 86813 Central Road Eugene OR 97402-9284 Phone: 541 935-3915 FAX: 541 935-0863 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Sun Oct 19 15:58:00 2003 Message-Id: <3F92ECC4.3080904@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: this is a test, please ignore Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:57:56 -0500 testing "reply-to" -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From tonyg@thealpinehouse.fsnet.co.uk Sun Oct 19 16:45:04 2003 Message-Id: <000b01c39681$ef5b6e00$75b4193e@dan> From: "anthony goode" Subject: Virus in Crocus Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:45:29 +0100 As a partial answer to Jane McGarys' enquiry about a damaged Crocus pulchellus, I have posted the insert below plus links on the wiki Crocus page. "Crocus are susceptible to virus disease. This is usually visible in the flowers. This distortion may take the form of twisted petals, streaking (as in tulip fire,) sometimes the flowers are depauperate and fail to open properly. The virus also reveals itself as light and dark blotching in the foliage which is most visible when the foliage first emerges. The pictures here have been manipulated to exagerate the streaking in flower and foliage to make it more apparent. (Massive hike in contrast levels does this.) http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/viruscrocus1.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/viruscrocus2.JPG Here is one with distorted petals http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/viruscrocus3.JPG The vectors are aphids which find refuge especially on the backs of the leaves. " I would add that only a very few of my plants exhibit signs of virus such as these and those that do are always removed and quarantined for further evaluation - which usually results in a decision to destroy the plants. Crocus serotinus and Crocus kotschyanus seem to be most susceptible but maybe this is because I grow so many variants of each. Plants grown under glass are much more susceptible, as are overcrowded plants. Both of these situations give shelter to aphids. I suspect that Janes plants are simply victim to some kind of mechanical damage but a very close examination of the flowers and foliage (when it emerges) should clear up any doubts. Tony Goode. Norwich UK. Mintemp -8C From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Oct 19 17:13:20 2003 Message-Id: <3F92FE6F.1020302@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Colchicum baytopiorum Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:13:19 -0400 The last colchicum to flower this year for me. This is larger than the procurrens but very similar. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_baytopiorum_6.JPG Arnold New Jersey From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Sun Oct 19 21:18:02 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20031020111845.00967860@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Aristea ecklonii v Libertia caerulea Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:18:45 +1000 Howdy All, I was at a nursery yesterday and hving a discussion with the owners about a couple of things that they are growing. Knowing I was a bit of an uncommon plant collector they asked me whether I knew the differences between Aristea ecklonii and Libertia caerulea? I can't find any information on the latter so I thought I'd ask here and see what responses I got. I realise not technically a bulb, but I figure it is definitely within the realm of what we all grow here, so it should be acceptable? The 2 plants they were growing under the separate names were identical, to the point that I think they were both Aristea ecklonii which fitted the bill perfectly from references. Is Libertia caerulea an older name, does it even exist as a name or is it just a complete mislabelling? The plants they had had very distinct flattened stems, with clusters (umbells?) of flowers on the end of each branch of the stem. A lovely intense mid-blue to mauvey colour (difficult to describe). Whatever they are they are very nice, but they were wanting to find out for sure whether the Libertia was a mislabelling. I have searched on "Libertia caerulea" on google and not got a single match, so I have to wonder re existence/spelling? A similar search of "Libertia caerula" brings up a single nursery that stocks it (Dancing Oaks nursery). Can anyone help? Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Oct 19 22:33:08 2003 Message-Id: <3F934960.9040702@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Aristea ecklonii v Libertia caerulea Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:33:04 -0400 Paul: Here goes: From Kuitzki "Libertia spreng. " Small to medium evergreen rhizomatous perennials; leaves several, lanceolate to linear; flowering stems several branched, branches long or very short and sometimes clustered; inflorescence spathes short, pedicels exposed; flowers white or blue; tepals free, subequal or the outer whorl much smaller; filaments united in a short tube, anthers erect; style short, dividing above the filament tube into 3 slender branches extending between the stamens; capsules sometimes indehiscent; seeds brown and shed immediately or colored and exposed in the open capsule; x =19. About 10 ssp., Australia, New Guinea, New Zealand and S. America." Aristea Aiton Found in Sub Saharan Africa including Madagascar. From jamievande@freenet.de Mon Oct 20 05:08:38 2003 Message-Id: <005001c396e9$9e63e8c0$6402a8c0@celeron> From: "Jamie" Subject: Aristea ecklonii v Libertia caerulea Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:07:41 +0200 Paul, to add to Arnold's bit, there is a Libertia coerulescens: clump-forming, rhizomatous, linear, rigid and leathery leaves (30-45cm). Spring flowering, one-two leaves on stem, flowers in umbels on short branched terminus. Pale blue. Chile, takes -5°C From the descriptions of A. ecklonii, the flowers are carried up the stem in a spike-like (panicle) manner. The flowers appear to be a much deeper blue and are born in Summer. The plants seem to be similar in stature. Only listed as frost hardy! South Africa Hope this helps, Jamie V. Cologne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arnold Trachtenberg" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 4:33 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Aristea ecklonii v Libertia caerulea > Paul: > > Here goes: > > From Kuitzki "Libertia spreng. > > > > " Small to medium evergreen rhizomatous perennials; leaves several, > lanceolate to linear; flowering stems several branched, branches long or > very short and sometimes clustered; inflorescence spathes short, > pedicels exposed; flowers white or blue; tepals free, subequal or the > outer whorl much smaller; filaments united in a short tube, anthers > erect; style short, dividing above the filament tube into 3 slender > branches extending between the stamens; capsules sometimes indehiscent; > seeds brown and shed immediately or colored and exposed in the open > capsule; x =19. About 10 ssp., Australia, New Guinea, New Zealand and > S. America." > > Aristea Aiton > > Found in Sub Saharan Africa including Madagascar. > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From dells@voicenet.com Mon Oct 20 06:41:42 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: For John Ingram Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:41:21 -0400 Sorry All, But, John Ingram, my messages to you are bouncing. Failure notices say that you are "over quota". Dell From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Mon Oct 20 06:39:07 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20031020204340.00af4c90@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Aristea ecklonii v Libertia caerulea Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:43:40 +1000 Arnold, Thanks for taking the time to answer. Greatly appreciated. Which is this actually describing? It mentions (included below) Libertia spreng at the beginning and then Aristea Aiton at the end, although I think it is meaning that Aristea comes from the sub Sahara etc, while the other from Australia etc? The descriptions etc make sense, just not sure WHICH it is describing > From Kuitzki "Libertia spreng. > >" Small to medium evergreen rhizomatous perennials; leaves several, >lanceolate to linear; flowering stems several branched, branches long or >very short and sometimes clustered; inflorescence spathes short, >pedicels exposed; flowers white or blue; tepals free, subequal or the >outer whorl much smaller; filaments united in a short tube, anthers >erect; style short, dividing above the filament tube into 3 slender >branches extending between the stamens; capsules sometimes indehiscent; >seeds brown and shed immediately or colored and exposed in the open >capsule; x =19. About 10 ssp., Australia, New Guinea, New Zealand and >S. America." > >Aristea Aiton > >Found in Sub Saharan Africa including Madagascar. > Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Mon Oct 20 06:46:03 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20031020205037.009dfe70@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Aristea ecklonii v Libertia caerulea Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:50:37 +1000 >to add to Arnold's bit, there is a Libertia coerulescens: clump-forming, >rhizomatous, linear, rigid and leathery leaves (30-45cm). Spring flowering, >one-two leaves on stem, flowers in umbels on short branched terminus. Pale >blue. Chile, takes -5°C > >From the descriptions of A. ecklonii, the flowers are carried up the stem in >a spike-like (panicle) manner. The flowers appear to be a much deeper blue >and are born in Summer. The plants seem to be similar in stature. Only >listed as frost hardy! South Africa > Jamie, Thanks for the correction in spelling, that may be the key ingredient I need to find it . Does anyone grow these plants and can verify what the flower arrangement and stem are like? The plant they had had very distinct flat stems, even those stem pieces branching off the main stem. The description we could find in the book at the time listed Aristea as having the branching stem with umbells, the same as you're describing the Libertia.... so it is still a bit unclear. Murphy's Law will dictate of course that both of them have the flat stems too . And flower colour is so subjective when we have an apparently single plant under both names and trying to work out what it is. I really feel that what the nursery have may be the same thing under both names, but given how close it is appearing that the plants resemble each other.... that may not be the case? I'll go and do some looking on google under that spelling and see if I can come up with anything. I am hoping that there may be people who grow each of them and have observations about stems etc? Thanks again to those who have rsponded. It would be great to be able too track down what the differences really are. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From jamievande@freenet.de Mon Oct 20 07:26:37 2003 Message-Id: <009401c396fc$c7940f00$6402a8c0@celeron> From: "Jamie" Subject: Aristea ecklonii v Libertia caerulea Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:24:44 +0200 Paul, from the description I found, I am under the impression that Aristea is more Sisyrhynchum-like, while Libertia actually carries the flowers in hanging umbels. I found a picture in a book of a Libertia and the umbels were very distinct and somewhat free-hanging, while the shot of Aristea showed the blooms quite tight on the stem and covering more than half the length. Libertia was more apical. I cannot say when these are culturally influenced or type specific. Good luck, Jamie V. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Tyerman" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 12:50 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Aristea ecklonii v Libertia caerulea >to add to Arnold's bit, there is a Libertia coerulescens: clump-forming, >rhizomatous, linear, rigid and leathery leaves (30-45cm). Spring flowering, >one-two leaves on stem, flowers in umbels on short branched terminus. Pale >blue. Chile, takes -5°C > >From the descriptions of A. ecklonii, the flowers are carried up the stem in >a spike-like (panicle) manner. The flowers appear to be a much deeper blue >and are born in Summer. The plants seem to be similar in stature. Only >listed as frost hardy! South Africa > Jamie, Thanks for the correction in spelling, that may be the key ingredient I need to find it . Does anyone grow these plants and can verify what the flower arrangement and stem are like? The plant they had had very distinct flat stems, even those stem pieces branching off the main stem. The description we could find in the book at the time listed Aristea as having the branching stem with umbells, the same as you're describing the Libertia.... so it is still a bit unclear. Murphy's Law will dictate of course that both of them have the flat stems too . And flower colour is so subjective when we have an apparently single plant under both names and trying to work out what it is. I really feel that what the nursery have may be the same thing under both names, but given how close it is appearing that the plants resemble each other.... that may not be the case? I'll go and do some looking on google under that spelling and see if I can come up with anything. I am hoping that there may be people who grow each of them and have observations about stems etc? Thanks again to those who have rsponded. It would be great to be able too track down what the differences really are. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From arnold@nj.rr.com Mon Oct 20 08:21:45 2003 Message-Id: From: arnold@nj.rr.com Subject: Aristea ecklonii v Libertia caerulea Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:21:45 -0400 ) > Libertia spreng > Paul: Spreng is the name of the person who originally described libertia. I added the aristea to show that it is found in Sub Saharan Africa. Arnold From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Mon Oct 20 08:45:59 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20031020225034.00a4a840@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Aristea ecklonii v Libertia caerulea Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:50:34 +1000 > >Spreng is the name of the person who originally described libertia. > >I added the aristea to show that it is found in Sub Saharan Africa. > Arnold, I thought that may have been the case, but was worth checking to be sure that you were describing Libertia . I had thought that you were showing the difference provenance of the Aristea with the last comments but wasn't sure. Thanks for the clarification. Do you have the corresponding description for Aristea as well? It would be interesting to compare descriptions in similar language to see if anything stands out. Specifically trying to find out whether the flowers sit closer to the stem and sisyrinchium-like as Jamie has described. The picture I saw in the book did not show any of this clearly, and one description in one book described Aristea as having "sparse" flowers. >from the description I found, I am under the impression that Aristea is more >Sisyrhynchum-like, while Libertia actually carries the flowers in hanging >umbels. I found a picture in a book of a Libertia and the umbels were very >distinct and somewhat free-hanging, while the shot of Aristea showed the >blooms quite tight on the stem and covering more than half the length. >Libertia was more apical. I cannot say when these are culturally influenced >or type specific. Jamie, The plant I saw I would definitely not describe as hanging umbels. The stems are stiff ((the flattening of the stem is vertical so the stems stay rigidly outwards, not bending downwards) with a cluster of flowers on the stem, buds facing winthin about a 90' arc at the tip (i.e looking from in front the buds all sit within 45' above and below the lline of the stem, definitely not hanging or in any way I could call pendulous or anything like that. Re flower placement to stem I have seen Aristea described as sparse flowering as well, so it is getting VERY confusing. Thanks again to you both for information. I now have a fairly clear picture of the Libertia according to your descriptions, but this is pretty close to what I have seen for Aristea as well. It really does sound like Aristea is pretty variable, which is also fairly apparent in Arnold's description that Libertia are variable as well (although the description I think was for the genus, not species specific which makes variability more understandable. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From arnold@nj.rr.com Mon Oct 20 09:44:01 2003 Message-Id: From: arnold@nj.rr.com Subject: Aristea ecklonii v Libertia caerulea Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:43:49 -0400 Paul: I'll get to it in the next day or two. Arnold From msittner@mcn.org Mon Oct 20 11:22:28 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031020080740.01ab1af0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Aristea ecklonii v Libertia caerulea Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:20:33 -0700 Dear Paul, I am sure a lot of us grow Aristea ecklonii. It has the reputation for needing lots of water and seeding itself around a bit so some people don't grow it long. I grow mine dryish and it doesn't reseed as much, and does better than I expected with less water. I have gotten seed for Aristea major that turned out to be Aristea ecklonii too which was disappointing. I've been meaning to get some pictures up on the wiki Aristea page, but haven't had time. My flower is closer to blue than purple but you know how hard that is to capture. I'll try to get some pictures to the wiki soon if someone doesn't do it first. In Pooley's book she does not give another name for it and usually she does if there was one. And the common name for this species is Blue Stars. Aristea is only an African genus. Here is what she writes (A Field Guide to Wildflowers Kwazulu-Natal and the Eastern Region): Up to 1 m. in clumps. On forest margins, streambanks, grassland, scrub....Leaves: Basal, in a fan, ± 600 x 14 mm., curved, outer edges white, stem leaves 36-400 x 3-12 mm, narrow, bases keeled. Flowers: Inflorescence stem flattened, branched or not, upper part zigzig, bracts rusty brown, flowers ± 20 mm diam., pale to deep mauve-blue. Hope this helps. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Mon Oct 20 11:50:45 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031020083715.00b42630@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Fertilizers--TOW Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:49:09 -0700 Dear All, The topic of the week this week is fertilizers. In my Gordon Summerfield summary I included his prescription for fertilizing and am repeating it here as a starting point: "He advised avoiding super phosphates which he says many of the bulbs hate and feels bone meal has no value at all. Also he doesn't think foliar feeding is helpful. Here is his formula for feeding: Magnesium sulfate--If leaves are yellow or the tips brown need this Ammonium sulfate--Provides nitrogen. He says contrary to opinion bulbs need nitrogen Potassium sulfate--Helps the new leaves, if they are purplish they need this Kelp--This helps with formation of the bulb for the next season. He adds 1 Tablespoon to a gallon of water in the middle of the growing season. Both he and Henry Pauw add small amounts of these and dissolve them in water instead of mixing them in the soil." So what do the rest of you do? Does anyone still use bone meal? How about the mixes you buy at the stores that are advertised for bulbs? Has anyone done a test with planting using two kinds of fertilizer? Do others feel that bulbs hate phosphorus and if so which ones? Who uses miracle grow and how often? How about manure? We had some osmocote horror stories from Uli's Hippeastrum a number of years ago and from Diana Chapman too if I remember correctly, but are some of you having success with this? How about nutricote which is supposed to release fertilizer slowly and not be temperature dependent like osmocote? Who uses liquid feed only and how often? Will Ashburner once said (if I remember right) that he "suspected" it didn't matter what fertilizer you used as long as you got your mix right. I imagine most of what we know is anecdotal, but please share your experiences and remind us where you live and what you grow. I'd expect there might not be one formula that works for everything. Also tell us about minerals that you have added successfully. Anyone use Spray n Grow? As always I have the questions and hope some of you will have the answers. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Oct 20 18:09:10 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031020101144.00b7dc08@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Fertilizers--TOW Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:36:01 -0700 Thanks to Mary Sue for introducing the timely topic. I used to use bone meal in my bulb potting compost, but I stopped because it attracted too many animals, including my dogs. I don't think it did any harm, though. I have never applied superphosphates, but I know at least one good bulb grower who does. Some years I have mixed a commercial "bulb food" into the potting soil -- a cheap generic brand, I think. Primarily, I rely on liquid fertilizers. Last year I acquired a fertilizing system (EZ-Gro) that hooks into the hose and mixes the fertilizer at what is said to be a steady dilution, though (as John Lonsdale mentioned to me; he has one too) I can't see how it could stay steady over a long period of watering. Anyway, it hasn't killed any plants, so it is not too strong. The dilution is adjustable. It makes this task far easier than it was before, when I was mixing the solution in a garbage can (Brit. dustbin) and applying it with a hand watering can! I use one of the several "root and blossom" formulas available commercially ("tomato food" is good too); these have a lower proportion of nitrogen than general-purpose soluble fertilizers. I apply one feeding in fall and three in late winter through mid-spring. Since I repot all the bulbs every other year, they also get fresh minerals and some organic matter at that time. I do not use manure of any kind in the potting soil, because I think it may promote rotting, but I think it's all right to use well-aged manure on certain bulbs, such as lilies. Alstroemerias like manure, as well. I also fertilize new seedling bulbs, but with a weaker solution (about 1/4 the rate recommended on the container). I think it's a bad idea to apply foliar feeding to many bulbs, because splashes of fertilizer seem to promote Botrytis or other infections on the leaves; probably nurseries apply so much fungicide that this is averted, but I don't use fungicide except in emergencies. When I apply the fertilizer with the hose, I use a water wand with a small rose that keeps the liquid down on the soil. It's important to feed bulbs well if they are being grown in containers, as many of mine are. Out in the open ground, they have more resources. Now that I'm switching gradually to mesh pots instead of clay, I find that certain plants with wide-ranging roots grow and flower much better, and I suppose this is due in part to getting more nutrients as they extend their roots out through the mesh. Mary Sue didn't mention lime, but pH is important in facilitating the plant's use of certain nutrients. I rarely add lime to my bulb soil, but perhaps I should. When I do add lime (mostly for alpines), I use a product called Cal-Pril, which is slow-release and granular, and can be applied in the garden with a lawn fertilizer spreader. For garden fertilizer, including areas with a lot of bulbs, I apply a granular fertilizer made for use on nursery perennials and shrubs. It contains both major nutrients and trace elements. It releases over 6 months, but it is not an Osmocote-type product. I haven't seen this type of fertilizer at garden centers, but the farm stores around here sell such products. I apply it in April or May. Parts of the garden also get topdressings of compost or manure when I have the time and energy. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From rmsachs@ucdavis.edu Mon Oct 20 13:38:11 2003 Message-Id: From: "Roy M. Sachs" Subject: Fertilizers--TOW Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:40:37 -0700 I use slow-release fertilizer, 25% N, 4% K and 4% P at a rate that will supply approximately 50 lbs N/acre (= 50 Kg/ha). I'm not sure that our clay soils ever become deficient in potassium or phosphorous so I buy the richest slow-release source of nitrogen (which just happens to be 25/4/4). Per 1000 sq.ft. (ca 100 sq.m) to get 50 lbs N from the slow release granules, I apply 4.6 lbs (ca 2.1 kg) annually, 2.3 lbs in the spring and 2.3 lbs in the fall. Slow release is easiest for me with varied irrigation rates and sometimes very heavy rainfall, but I have used ammonium sulfate (21% N) successfully. The ammonium form of N tends to exchange with other cations on the clay and compost that I use. I have calculations on a worksheet if anyone's interested. Roy Davis, California; Sacramento Valley, very hot dry summers , mild spring and fall; irrigation required (usually) from April through October. From msittner@mcn.org Mon Oct 20 13:45:13 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031020104034.00c152c0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Aristea ecklonii Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:43:34 -0700 Dear Paul, I uploaded a picture taken in May until I have a chance to take another one. This one was the wrongly named one and was in a pot until it bloomed and I could verify that it wasn't A. major so I'm not sure how well you can see the structure of the plant. We will photograph one in the ground. But in the meantime I hope it will help. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Aristea_ecklonii.jpg Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon Oct 20 15:17:07 2003 Message-Id: <006001c3973e$cdc397a0$433c2bd9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: visit to the US Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:17:28 +0100 hi all I'm planning a visit to the US next summer. Can anyone recommend some gardens to visit? Gardens with interesting but not just everyday plants. Mark N Ireland From arnold@nj.rr.com Mon Oct 20 16:14:35 2003 Message-Id: <2186c1f53c.1f53c2186c@rdc-nyc.rr.com> From: arnold@nj.rr.com Subject: visit to the US Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:14:34 -0400 Mark: Where in the US will you be visiting. Arnold From pollards1@cox.net Mon Oct 20 17:52:52 2003 Message-Id: From: Shawn Pollard Subject: visit to the US Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:51:43 -0600 on 10/20/03 1:17 PM, Mark Smyth at mark@marksgardenplants.com wrote: > > hi all > > I'm planning a visit to the US next summer. Can anyone recommend some > gardens to visit? Gardens with interesting but not just everyday plants. > > Mark > N Ireland Some of my favorites for neat stuff: Strybing (San Francisco) Desert Botanical Garden (Phoenix, AZ--in summer, wait until monsoon rains come) Boyce-Thompson Arboretum (near Florence, AZ--spring my favorite time) UC Santa Cruz Arboretum (Santa Cruz, CA) Quail Botanical Gardens (Encinitas, CA--nera San Diego) Flagstaff Arboretum (Flagstaff, AZ) Best wishes, Shawn Pollard Tucson, AZ From mysticgardn@yahoo.com Mon Oct 20 17:15:32 2003 Message-Id: <20031020211531.18158.qmail@web40501.mail.yahoo.com> From: Ann Marie Subject: free bearded iris Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:15:31 -0700 (PDT) PBS members I've recently divided several areas in my garden of tall bearded iris that have lost their labels, they range in colors of all white with ruffled edges, light blue, yellow and a two tone rose. I've replanted some, given away tons and still have about 25 left would like to find a home(s) for them, anyone interested please email be privately. I'm only asking that you pay for shipping. Thanks Ann Marie mysticgardn@yahoo.com Ann Marie So. California, San Gabriel Valley, Zone 21 (Sunset Western Garden book) , influenced by both marine and interior air(Santa Ana winds). This makes it perfect for Citrus trees and most So African plants. I collect and sometimes sell belladonnas, nerines, oxalis, moraea, amaryllis, palms, epiphyllums, succulents and other south african bulbs. email me at mysticgardn@yahoo.com for list of bulbs and plants for sale. For home and garden sculptures go to http://www.rjunkdrawer.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon Oct 20 17:23:19 2003 Message-Id: <018201c39750$57375dd0$433c2bd9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: visit to the US Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:22:58 +0100 well .... I should have said I am willing to work my trip around places to visit. All I need just now is a list of possibilities Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 9:14 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] visit to the US > > Mark: > > Where in the US will you be visiting. > > Arnold > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From jennifer.hildebrand@att.net Mon Oct 20 17:26:16 2003 Message-Id: <102020032126.23742.2578@att.net> From: jennifer.hildebrand@att.net Subject: mealies on dormant bulbs Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:26:16 +0000 Hi all, I’m finally getting around to planting some of my California Narcissus bulbs here in Nebraska. But upon opening up some of the packages, I was met by my arch-nemesis, the mealy bug. I’ve been reading through the archives and have come across a number of great (and safe to use indoor) solutions, including rubbing alcohol, a Murphy’s Oil combo, rot-gut scotch, gin, and/or vodka, and a 1:1 dishsoap/water mix. I’m wondering, however, if the process changes when treating dormant bulbs as opposed to plants in active growth. Is there a good soak for mealies that won’t damage the bulb or the flower (hopefully) forming inside? Thanks much! Jennifer From eagle85@flash.net Mon Oct 20 18:10:58 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: mealies on dormant bulbs Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:00:01 -0700 jennifer.hildebrand@att.netDoug Westfall jennifer.hildebrand@att.net1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA Hi Jennifer, > > I’m wondering, however, if the process changes when treating dormant bulbs as > opposed to plants in active growth. Is there a good soak for mealies that > won’t damage the bulb or the flower (hopefully) forming inside? > > Thanks much! > Jennifer Did you see the rinse/soak of imidaproclid? It is a "wonder" treatment for mealies and/or aphids. Let me know if you did /do not see it. Doug From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Oct 20 21:54:22 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031020151350.00b76c10@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: visit to the US Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:23:01 -0700 Mark Smyth is not the first visitor to North America who wants to see a lot of plants and isn't quite sure how much he can fit in! There are some states and provinces, especially in the West, that take as long to drive end to end (on our good freeways) as it does to drive across most European countries. Mark, if you want to see alpine flora (and who doesn't?), you may find yourself in Colorado, and there are two superlative public gardens there: the Denver Botanic Garden and the Betty Ford Alpine Garden in Vail. Within an hour's drive of either, you can hike at 11,000 feet and upward. In the Pacific Northwest, there are many good places to see wild plants, and some public gardens too. The Bellevue Botanic Garden in Seattle is admired for its perennial plantings, and the nearby Rhododendron Species Foundation for the obvious sort of thing. If you like trees, the Hoyt Arboretum in Portland is world-famous, and there are also a staggering rose garden and one of the best Japanese gardens outside Japan in the same park. Many of the Northwest's nurseries, such as Siskiyou Rare Plant Nursery in Medford and Northwest Garden Nursery in Eugene, also have remarkable display gardens that are open pretty much continually during the growing season. If you are going to Canada and find yourself in Vancouver, British Columbia, visit the University of British Columbia Botanic Gardens, where you can see a renowned Asian collection and a fine rock garden. A section of the new book "Rock Garden Design and Construction" (Timber Press and NARGS, 2003) describes many public gardens in the USA and Canada. The focus is on rock gardens but most of those described are just small sections of much more complex public botanic gardens. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Mon Oct 20 18:31:13 2003 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Aristea ecklonii v Libertia caerulea Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:31:03 -0700 Paul, You may have already discovered this in your Google searching, but if you want to compare the two directly yourself by growing them both, you can of course get Aristea eklonii from several sources including the Saunders's Silverhill Seeds. Plant World Seeds in England sells seeds of Libertia caerulescens . They describe it as "A most unusual coloured dwarf Chilean libertia. Compact basal iris-like leaves, the intriguing flower heads being that rare shade of palest china blue." They have a tiny picture of the flowers that does look a lot like A. ecklonii. -- --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon Oct 20 18:39:32 2003 Message-Id: <019301c3975b$1783af30$433c2bd9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: visit to the US Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:39:57 +0100 Thanks very much Shawn. I'll file the links for future reference Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn Pollard" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] visit to the US > on 10/20/03 1:17 PM, Mark Smyth at mark@marksgardenplants.com wrote: > > > > > hi all > > > > I'm planning a visit to the US next summer. Can anyone recommend some > > gardens to visit? Gardens with interesting but not just everyday plants. > > > > Mark > > N Ireland > > > Some of my favorites for neat stuff: > > Strybing (San Francisco) > Desert Botanical Garden (Phoenix, AZ--in summer, wait until monsoon rains > come) > Boyce-Thompson Arboretum (near Florence, AZ--spring my favorite time) > UC Santa Cruz Arboretum (Santa Cruz, CA) > Quail Botanical Gardens (Encinitas, CA--nera San Diego) > Flagstaff Arboretum (Flagstaff, AZ) > > Best wishes, > > Shawn Pollard > Tucson, AZ > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From jshields104@insightbb.com Mon Oct 20 18:52:10 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031020174908.026fc408@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: visit to the US Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:52:09 -0500 Mark, I would add the Huntington Gardens, Libraries and Art Galleries near Los Angeles, California. If you are in the Chicago area, be sure to visit Boyce Tankersley at the Chicago Botanic Gardens. In St. Louis, Missouri, there is the incomparable Missouri Botanic Gardens. Have a great trip! Jim Shields in central Indiana (4 hours from Chicago Bot Gdn and about 6 or 7 hrs from MoBot, by auto) At 11:39 PM 10/20/2003 +0100, you wrote: >Thanks very much Shawn. I'll file the links for future reference > >Mark > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Shawn Pollard" >To: "Pacific Bulb Society" >Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 9:51 PM >Subject: Re: [pbs] visit to the US > > > > on 10/20/03 1:17 PM, Mark Smyth at mark@marksgardenplants.com wrote: > > > > > > > > hi all > > > > > > I'm planning a visit to the US next summer. Can anyone recommend some > > > gardens to visit? Gardens with interesting but not just everyday plants. > > > > > > Mark > > > N Ireland > > > > > > Some of my favorites for neat stuff: > > > > Strybing (San Francisco) > > Desert Botanical Garden (Phoenix, AZ--in summer, wait until monsoon rains > > come) > > Boyce-Thompson Arboretum (near Florence, AZ--spring my favorite time) > > UC Santa Cruz Arboretum (Santa Cruz, CA) > > Quail Botanical Gardens (Encinitas, CA--nera San Diego) > > Flagstaff Arboretum (Flagstaff, AZ) > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Shawn Pollard > > Tucson, AZ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From arnold@nj.rr.com Mon Oct 20 19:00:44 2003 Message-Id: <3F94691B.4070405@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Aristea ecklonii v Libertia caerulea Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:00:43 -0400 Aristea Aiton "Small to large evergreen or seasonal perennials with a thick or slender rhizome; leaves lanceolate to linear or terete; flowering stem sometimes compressed or winged, variously branched or simple; inflorescences composed of 1-many binate rhipidia arranged in panicles or crowded in fascicles on short branches; flowers usually fugaceous, stellate, usually shades of blue, occasionally white or mauve, without nectar or rarely with perigonal nectaries; tepals occasionally with contrasting marks, basally connate, subequal or the inner or outer whorl smaller; style deflexed barely divided apically or broadly 3- winged; seeds several to many and angular to cylindric with oblique ends or 1- 2 per locule, often compressed radically arillate; x=16. About 50 spp., sub-Saharan Africa including Madagascar." Kubitzki " Families and Genera of Vascular Plants Volume III Flowering Plants Monocotyledons" Enjoy Arnold From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Mon Oct 20 19:30:51 2003 Message-Id: <43.23a782d9.2cc5ca25@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: visit to the US Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:30:45 EDT Try: www.botanique.com They list gardens, arboreta, etc. by state. From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Oct 20 19:45:24 2003 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: visit to the US Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:45:17 -0700 Mark, Wild is better than gardens. The redwoods in northern California. No more need be said. The Siskiyou Mountains along the border between Oregon and California. Lots of endemics. Every road has different flowers. If you see something in flower, photograph it instead of waiting for a better one, because you might not see another one. You could spend the whole season there. I saw Trillium rivale in flower March 1, and erythroniums follow soon after. April and May are fantastic - more trilliums, erythroniums, iris, alliums, calochortus, with the air perfumed by hillsides of Rhododendron occidentale in bloom. The summer brings lilies and alpine plants at higher elevations. There is a wildflower show in a community hall in Glide, Oregon, on the last full weekend of April every year. http://www.wmni.net/magyan/GWS.htm Either go there first to see what the plants should look like, or go there after to identify everything you've photographed. There is one sample of everything from lichen to trees, and endangered plants are represented by pictures. Everything is labelled. Photographers are allowed in early. There is a wildflower hotline for early spring desert flowers, but I'll leave someone else to write about that because I haven't been yet. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Mon Oct 20 21:09:22 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20031021111357.009e2210@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Aristea ecklonii - we have a winner Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:13:57 +1000 Howdy All, Thank you all so much for the responses. I can pretty much certainly say now that the plant in question IS Aristea ecklonii. Having now had 2 of your provide descriptions that specifically mention the flattened or winged stems it is just too significant to be missed. Also the description of palest china blue does definitely NOT apply to these flowers, they are a strong blue with a hint of mauve to them.... almost an iridescent blue and similar in strength to the picture Mary Sue provided. So thank you all for the responses. It is great to have this list as a facility for tracking down things like this, as the reference books are not always the easiest things to work from (plus I have a lot of reference books, but none that were specific enough in this case to be sure). Thanks again peoples!! Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From eagle85@flash.net Mon Oct 20 22:03:33 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Aristea ecklonii - we have a winner Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:52:52 -0700 Paul TyermanDoug Westfall ptyerman@ozemail.com.au1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA Howdy Paul, Were you the one who wanted to see the leaves of the Haemanthus crispis? Doug From JFlintoff@aol.com Mon Oct 20 22:54:32 2003 Message-Id: <15e.26b180e1.2cc5f9e4@aol.com> From: JFlintoff@aol.com Subject: Allium picture on the Wiki Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:54:28 EDT Jane I've grown Allium scorzonerifolium v xericiense in the open garden for years--it is somewhat like a more attractive and daintier A. moly, the leaves being very narrow as compared to that plant. It grows quite well in a bed with bearded irises that is not watered during the summer. By the bye, the type plant A. scorzonerifolium v scorzonerifolium with its head of bulbils and maybe a single floret or two has proved to be a weed in Betty Lowry's rock garden in Renton,WA. It is only to be recommended to the most ardent of Alliophils. Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island, Washigton, USA Zone 8- the monsoon is here! From mark@marksgardenplants.com Tue Oct 21 03:50:52 2003 Message-Id: <002601c397a8$1c85b350$b6df2ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: visit to the US Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:51:17 +0100 hi Diane thats is a fantastic reply to really make me want to go to the mountains. Everyone When I have my itinery planned I would like to hear about private gardens too. thanka again for all the input Mark N Ireland zone 8 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Whitehead" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 12:45 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] visit to the US > Mark, > > Wild is better than gardens. > > The redwoods in northern California. No more need be said. > > The Siskiyou Mountains along the border between Oregon and > California. Lots of endemics. Every road has different flowers. If > you see something in flower, photograph it instead of waiting for a > better one, because you might not see another one. You could spend > the whole season there. I saw Trillium rivale in flower March 1, and > erythroniums follow soon after. April and May are fantastic - more > trilliums, erythroniums, iris, alliums, calochortus, with the air > perfumed by hillsides of Rhododendron occidentale in bloom. The > summer brings lilies and alpine plants at higher elevations. There is > a wildflower show in a community hall in Glide, Oregon, on the last > full weekend of April every year. http://www.wmni.net/magyan/GWS.htm > Either go there first to see what the plants should look like, or go > there after to identify everything you've photographed. There is one > sample of everything from lichen to trees, and endangered plants are > represented by pictures. Everything is labelled. Photographers are > allowed in early. > > There is a wildflower hotline for early spring desert flowers, but > I'll leave someone else to write about that because I haven't been > yet. > > -- > Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > maritime zone 8 > cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) > sandy soil > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From mark@marksgardenplants.com Tue Oct 21 03:54:24 2003 Message-Id: <002c01c397a8$80889340$b6df2ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: visit to the US Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:54:05 +0100 hi Jane many thanks for your input. Trees arent really my thing other than to see the Red Woods. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane McGary" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 11:23 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] visit to the US > Mark Smyth is not the first visitor to North America who wants to see a lot > of plants and isn't quite sure how much he can fit in! There are some > states and provinces, especially in the West, that take as long to drive > end to end (on our good freeways) as it does to drive across most European > countries. > > Mark, if you want to see alpine flora (and who doesn't?), you may find > yourself in Colorado, and there are two superlative public gardens there: > the Denver Botanic Garden and the Betty Ford Alpine Garden in Vail. Within > an hour's drive of either, you can hike at 11,000 feet and upward. > > In the Pacific Northwest, there are many good places to see wild plants, > and some public gardens too. The Bellevue Botanic Garden in Seattle is > admired for its perennial plantings, and the nearby Rhododendron Species > Foundation for the obvious sort of thing. If you like trees, the Hoyt > Arboretum in Portland is world-famous, and there are also a staggering rose > garden and one of the best Japanese gardens outside Japan in the same park. > Many of the Northwest's nurseries, such as Siskiyou Rare Plant Nursery in > Medford and Northwest Garden Nursery in Eugene, also have remarkable > display gardens that are open pretty much continually during the growing > season. If you are going to Canada and find yourself in Vancouver, British > Columbia, visit the University of British Columbia Botanic Gardens, where > you can see a renowned Asian collection and a fine rock garden. > > A section of the new book "Rock Garden Design and Construction" (Timber > Press and NARGS, 2003) describes many public gardens in the USA and Canada. > The focus is on rock gardens but most of those described are just small > sections of much more complex public botanic gardens. > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From mark@marksgardenplants.com Tue Oct 21 04:00:10 2003 Message-Id: <000701c397a9$6a35be00$b6df2ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: visit to the US Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:00:34 +0100 A section of the new book "Rock Garden Design and Construction" Hi Jane is this the book? http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0881925837.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg Mark N Ireland From plants_man@bigpond.com Tue Oct 21 06:59:13 2003 Message-Id: <00da01c397c2$9a7b3040$5cfa8690@userbwbb7lkmiq> From: Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan Subject: Database research Query 1 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:00:54 +1000 Greetings, I trust this day finds you well. I am collecting information for a database builder here in Oz. Currently, many software Database Managers are available in the US and exceed everyday costs for most Aussies. The development of this particular Australian Database Manager is going to cost $50.00 - $70.00 AU. I think this is an acceptable/affordable cost. This Manager can hold multi collection data records such as dividing you whole plant collection into groups like my plants, plants for sale, plants for trade, hold as many fields as you like, search within you database, Pictures of your bulbs/plants/whole garden, Families, print out a report on each section ( an infinite amount of sections can be added ), you get the idea. First inception use has been for coin and a demo can be download from http://www.aussiecoinvarieties.com/manager/index.htm Now that I have told you a little background information, what I need from you, should you be interested in a Collection Database Manager is what type of fields you think it needs. Name as many as you can think of. The aim is to have a Horticultural Database that can apply to all plant types for all types of plant collectors. Any feed back is most appreciated. Thank you, Dash. Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan, Mainly Amaryllids Garden, P O Box 173, Barnawartha,Victoria,3688, Australia. +61 02 60267377 Visit my web site @ www.users.bigpond.com/plants_man/Home.htm Now with Online Payment Method Email the Australian Bulb Association at: support@ausbulbs.org ABA Web Sites: http://www.ausbulbs.org Checkout http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/ From kellyo@wetrock.com Tue Oct 21 07:08:46 2003 Message-Id: <3F94B121.18309.3D29E7@localhost> From: "Kelly O'Neill" Subject: Introduction and Re: [pbs] visit to the US Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 04:08:01 -0700 > All I need just now is a list of possibilities Hi Mark and everyone, I have joined the list recently and wish to invite everyone to visit my place. I have about 10 acres at my farm near Eugene, Oregon. I think most anyone would enjoy the place. I think it best to warn anyone who is into neat and tidy: It is a mess and weedy and things are disorganized and poorly labelled. It may be hard to see it all in one visit. My main focuses are cut-flowers, rockgarden, and Natives. I agree much of the best stuff is in the wild. BTW, the trees are not the only reason to the see the Redwoods forest. In mountainous areas, peak of blooms moves up in elevation as the Spring progresses. The later you visit, the higher you ought to look. The natural rock gardens at high elevations are great as late as August, or so (July might be better?). There is another wildflower show (Mt. Pisgah) near Eugene, Oregon in early to mid-May. Timing the trip to catch organized events such as the NARGS or other society annual Meetings can be very worthwhile for garden tours, wildland tours and speakers. Have fun, KellyO -- Kelly O'Neill Wet Rock Gardens Flower Farm U-Pick and more at the farm (open 9-6 Wed, Fri, Sun) and by appointment): 2877 N 19th Street Springfield, Oregon 97477 To contact us: gardens@wetrock.com http://www.wetrock.com (541) 746-4444 Business Office for mail or by appointment only: 1950 Yolanda AVE Springfield, Oregon 97477 From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Tue Oct 21 07:26:39 2003 Message-Id: <22.3e7e2a3d.2cc671e6@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Syringodea longituba Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:26:30 EDT In a message dated 10/19/2003 12:32:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, msittner@mcn.org writes: Do you have the Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs (the South African bible I heard it called)? You must with all the bulbs you grow from this area. If you don't have it, you definitely should get it. It is very cheaply purchased through buy.com, or at least it was. I've never grown Syringodea as the only seed I've had never cameup. There is a picture and a description in that book although not as clear perhaps as yours. It looks very possible. What are the leaves like? (Leaves 5 to 8, filiform with a dorsal groove, often twisted.) Hi Mary Sue: I do have the Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs somewhere but can not locate it at the moment, Freddi is in nesting mode and has the house in a shambles for redecorating and restorations. I found a fuzzy picture in a Nieuwoudtville handbook by Manning and Goldblatt that looks like my plant. The leaves (5-6) are filiform and have a channel but are not twisted. The outer bracts are fused into a tubular shape. There is a brief description in the synoptic review of Romulea by Manning and Goldblatt. As soon as I am able to see the open flower again (cloudy or too late in the day when I get to the greenhouse) I may have the answer as the paper says that the style branches are to be simple. Best regards and the Lachenalia season has begun with L. pusilla in bloom, Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From onager@midtown.net Tue Oct 21 12:43:49 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031021092813.017ea658@pop3.midtown.net> From: Joyce Miller Subject: mealies on dormant bulbs Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:41:57 -0700 Hi Jennifer, At this point I believe the flower has already formed in your bulbs. A 10 minute soak in Isopropyl will kill the mealies without hurting the bulb and incipient bloom. After soak, rinse in water to remove the Isopropyl. I have used this methodology on infested Hippeastrum bulbs. Other methods: >rubbing alcohol = Isopropyl (70% wood alcohol) >Murphy's Oil combo (Oil/Isopropyl/water is good for spraying >rot-gut scotch/gin/vodka are 80% alcohol = Isopropyl is more economical > 1:1 dishsoap/water mix = clean mealies. Isopropyl is necessary to > remove the waxy coating on the mealy bug. Kind regards, Joyce Miller Joyce E. Miller mailto:onager@midtown.net Zone USDA 9A Summer highs 100+degrees F for several to many days. Winter lows 27 degrees F From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Oct 21 12:56:47 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031021095451.00b697c8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: visit to the US Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:56:33 -0700 Mark, Yes, that is the book I meant. If you want a copy, you can probably get one at a discount through the AGS, and definitely through NARGS, if you are a member of either. I hope you enjoy it, if so. It's written for North American conditions, though -- and there are few places in North American that are both as warm and as rainy as Ireland. Best regards, Jane McGary At 09:00 AM 10/21/2003 +0100, you wrote: >A section of the new book "Rock Garden Design and Construction" > >Hi Jane > >is this the book? >http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0881925837.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg > >Mark >N Ireland > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Oct 21 13:06:13 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031021100251.00bcf978@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Allium picture on the Wiki Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:06:04 -0700 Jerry, Thanks for the info on Allium scorzonerifolium v xericiense. I may put some in the garden eventually but at present have only one bulb. I will heed your warning about v. scorzonerifolium. So far I've avoided weedy Alliums except for A. carinatum (or A. pulchellum, don't know which name is current), but it's just out in the garden and I appreciate the August flowers; also it's good for cutting. A. moly is not a weed here; it stays in its spot. Hope you are not getting flooded out -- or are you now in a rain shadow area? We are having nice weather with record warm temperatures here. Best regards, Jane From jshields104@insightbb.com Tue Oct 21 13:36:50 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031021121653.00b11660@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Fertilizers--TOW Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:36:48 -0500 Hi all, My basic premise is that facts are vastly superior in practical value to old wifes' tales. So I based my Hippeastrum culture on advice from Len Doran back in the 1970s. Beyond that, I consult the book by de Hertogh and Le Nard, "The Physiology of Flower Bulbs." Len said to avoid bone meal because most of these exotic bulbs are very prone to rotting, and bone meal encourages the growth of fungi and bacteria. Gordon Summerfield is quite right, bone meal is to be avoided if you value your bulbs. Organic potting mixtures and plant foods are to be avoided when growing bulbs like Hippeastrum, since these bulbs are so easily attacked by bacteria or fungi. Organic plant foods require bacterial or fungal digestion to become available to plant roots. Len further recommended that all nitrogen be in the form of nitrate, also to discourage fungal growth. Potassium nitrate, calcium nitrate, and magnesium nitrate would all be quite good sources of nitrogen. De Hertogh and Le Nard make the point that most bulbs need much more nitrogen and potassium than phosphate. Based on this, I suspect that potassium nitrate probably comes very close to being an ideal bulb fertilizer. Summerfield is again right, bulbs need relatively little phosphate. Since I use soilless mixtures based on Promix and amended with sand and granite chick starter grit, I think my bulbs can tolerate the soluble Peters 20-20-20 (with micronutrients) that I currently use. However, I think I could probably shift to something like 20-5-20 and still have healthy, vigorous bulbs. Just my 2 cents' worth. Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) At 08:49 AM 10/20/2003 -0700, Mary Sue wrote: >Dear All, > >The topic of the week this week is fertilizers. In my Gordon Summerfield >summary I included his prescription for fertilizing and am repeating it >here as a starting point: >"He advised avoiding super phosphates which he says many of the bulbs hate >and feels bone meal has no value at all. Also he doesn't think foliar >feeding is helpful. Here is his formula for feeding: >Magnesium sulfate--If leaves are yellow or the tips brown need this >Ammonium sulfate--Provides nitrogen. He says contrary to opinion bulbs >need nitrogen >Potassium sulfate--Helps the new leaves, if they are purplish they need this >Kelp--This helps with formation of the bulb for the next season. He adds 1 >Tablespoon to a gallon of water in the middle of the growing season. >Both he and Henry Pauw add small amounts of these and dissolve them in >water instead of mixing them in the soil." >....... ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Tue Oct 21 13:59:54 2003 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: visit to the US Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:59:46 -0700 >Mark, > >I would add the Huntington Gardens, Libraries and Art Galleries near >Los Angeles, California. > >If you are in the Chicago area, be sure to visit Boyce Tankersley at >the Chicago Botanic Gardens. In St. Louis, Missouri, there is the >incomparable Missouri Botanic Gardens. > >Have a great trip! > >Jim Shields >in central Indiana (4 hours from Chicago Bot Gdn and about 6 or 7 >hrs from MoBot, by auto) > If you end up in Southern California and go to the Huntington, don't forget the Los Angeles County Botanical Gardens and Arboretum as well as the Descanso Gardens, all within a couple of miles of each other. And then there are all the nurseries in northern San Diego county, probably the best place to grow plants of all kinds in the entire United States. I could spend a week just going to nurseries in northern S.D. county and probably still not be able to go to all of them. (Really!) And if we have an El Niño winter (with lots of rain) then the deserts can be spectacular in the spring. I've been to Joshua Tree National Park in an El Niño year as well as Death Valley National Park after an El Niño winter and there were an unbelievable number of wildflowers covering virtually every square inch of sand. I would also recommend the central Texas area in the spring when the countryside (and every vacant lot it seems) literally explodes with color. Even the medians and sides of the freeways become covered in flowers of all kinds. It's unbelievable, and no one quite believes someone who tells them about it until they see it for themselves. Of all the wildflower displays I've seen all over the U.S., I think it is by far the best. I don't know how it compares to the Cape provinces in South Africa in a good rain year or Chile after an El Niño winter, both of which I'd love to see. Here's a website with links to a bunch of arboreta and botanical gardens in various regions across the U.S. . -- --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Tue Oct 21 17:44:44 2003 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Fertilizers--TOW Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:44:31 -0700 >So what do the rest of you do? Does anyone still use bone meal? How >about the mixes you buy at the stores that are advertised for bulbs? >Has anyone done a test with planting using two kinds of fertilizer? >Do others feel that bulbs hate phosphorus and if so which ones? Who >uses miracle grow and how often? How about manure? We had some >osmocote horror stories from Uli's Hippeastrum a number of years ago >and from Diana Chapman too if I remember correctly, but are some of >you having success with this? How about nutricote which is supposed >to release fertilizer slowly and not be temperature dependent like >osmocote? Who uses liquid feed only and how often? I tried bone meal for a couple of years, but didn't notice any difference in growth, and like others have said, it attracted the dog, so I quit using it. I used to use Osmocote, but at half the recommended rate, and I quit after all that discussion some time ago about the problems it has when it gets too hot and things are watered a lot. Someone back then recommended a different product, called Apex, and I finally tracked down, using the Internet, a farm supply chain in South. Calif. that carried it. The only problem was that they only have stores at the periphery of the L.A. metropolitan area (which is huge). So I made a drive out to a store one day, discovered that since it comes in bulk, it is *much* cheaper than Osmoscote, and it comes in many different N-P-K configurations. I bought two 50 lb. bags of it and each bag has lasted a long time, even with all the pots I have. Right before Jennifer moved away, I got her to get me two more bags of it right before one of Cathy Craig's potlucks. I got the 21-5-12 plus minors formulation after hearing all the things that have been discussed over the years, and it turns out that Apex formulates and markets its products for the Australian market as well, which uses a different methodology for measuring the N-P-K contents. According to the bag label, in Australia, the formulation is 21-2.1-9.9 This is supposed to be a good formulation for Australian natives as well, according to Apex. They also make different lengths of duration for the time release and and although it is dependent on temperature, Apex gives a rating table for a range of temperatures. I got the formulation that lasts 9 months at 70 deg. F. (10 months at 60 deg. F., 8 months at 80 deg. F., 7 months at 90 deg. F.) I use it at the rate of 1/2 tablespoon per "gallon" of pot size---which is half the rate suggested on the Osmocote packages. I apply it when shoots start to appear in the autumn for winter growers and in the spring when shoots start to appear for summer growers. Everything seems to be growing much better since I started this regimen, and one appplication lasts most of the growing season for the winter growers. One bag is enough for all my pots and plants for more than 12 months of growing seasons. Best of all it only costs US$30 for a 50 lb. bag. I know this is pragmatist's experience, but it seems to square well with what others have written from a more scientific poitn of view. -- --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From plants_man@bigpond.com Tue Oct 21 18:19:12 2003 Message-Id: <00dc01c39821$98b94fd0$21fa8690@userbwbb7lkmiq> From: Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan Subject: Fertilizers--TOW Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:20:54 +1000 Greetings, we have a product available to us here in Oz. called 'urea free blood and bone'. It works like powdered gold! The bulbs go crazy after a feed and they love it. The only other magic I use is woodash, applied once every 2 years and again the bulbs love this! I use the KISS principle for our fertilizing regiem. Best wishes, Dash. Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan, Mainly Amaryllids Garden, P O Box 173, Barnawartha,Victoria,3688, Australia. +61 02 60267377 Visit my web site @ www.users.bigpond.com/plants_man/Home.htm Now with Online Payment Method Email the Australian Bulb Association at: support@ausbulbs.org ABA Web Sites: http://www.ausbulbs.org Checkout http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Poulsen" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:44 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Fertilizers--TOW > >So what do the rest of you do? Does anyone still use bone meal? How > >about the mixes you buy at the stores that are advertised for bulbs? > >Has anyone done a test with planting using two kinds of fertilizer? > >Do others feel that bulbs hate phosphorus and if so which ones? Who > >uses miracle grow and how often? How about manure? We had some > >osmocote horror stories from Uli's Hippeastrum a number of years ago > >and from Diana Chapman too if I remember correctly, but are some of > >you having success with this? How about nutricote which is supposed > >to release fertilizer slowly and not be temperature dependent like > >osmocote? Who uses liquid feed only and how often? > > I tried bone meal for a couple of years, but didn't notice any > difference in growth, and like others have said, it attracted the > dog, so I quit using it. > > I used to use Osmocote, but at half the recommended rate, and I quit > after all that discussion some time ago about the problems it has > when it gets too hot and things are watered a lot. > > Someone back then recommended a different product, called Apex, and I > finally tracked down, using the Internet, a farm supply chain in > South. Calif. that carried it. The only problem was that they only > have stores at the periphery of the L.A. metropolitan area (which is > huge). So I made a drive out to a store one day, discovered that > since it comes in bulk, it is *much* cheaper than Osmoscote, and it > comes in many different N-P-K configurations. I bought two 50 lb. > bags of it and each bag has lasted a long time, even with all the > pots I have. Right before Jennifer moved away, I got her to get me > two more bags of it right before one of Cathy Craig's potlucks. > > I got the 21-5-12 plus minors formulation after hearing all the > things that have been discussed over the years, and it turns out that > Apex formulates and markets its products for the Australian market as > well, which uses a different methodology for measuring the N-P-K > contents. According to the bag label, in Australia, the formulation > is 21-2.1-9.9 This is supposed to be a good formulation for > Australian natives as well, according to Apex. They also make > different lengths of duration for the time release and and although > it is dependent on temperature, Apex gives a rating table for a range > of temperatures. I got the formulation that lasts 9 months at 70 deg. > F. (10 months at 60 deg. F., 8 months at 80 deg. F., 7 months at 90 > deg. F.) > > I use it at the rate of 1/2 tablespoon per "gallon" of pot > size---which is half the rate suggested on the Osmocote packages. I > apply it when shoots start to appear in the autumn for winter growers > and in the spring when shoots start to appear for summer growers. > Everything seems to be growing much better since I started this > regimen, and one appplication lasts most of the growing season for > the winter growers. One bag is enough for all my pots and plants for > more than 12 months of growing seasons. Best of all it only costs > US$30 for a 50 lb. bag. > > I know this is pragmatist's experience, but it seems to square well > with what others have written from a more scientific poitn of view. > > -- > --Lee Poulsen > Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Antennaria@aol.com Tue Oct 21 23:21:46 2003 Message-Id: <1c7.10ada5a5.2cc751c0@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Allium scorzonerifolium forms Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:21:36 EDT >By the bye, the type plant A. scorzonerifolium >v scorzonerifolium with its head of bulbils and >maybe a single floret or two has proved to be a >weed in Betty Lowry's rock garden in Renton,WA. >It is only to be recommended to the most ardent >of Alliophils. I grew a form of A. scorzonerifolium var. scorzonerifolium over the past dozen years, that had a few to a half dozen little bulbils in each inflorescence, but also had a dozen or more flowers per inflorescence. I never found self sown seedlings or increased plants from the bulbils which I didn't harvest. Sadly, after all these years, the plants finally dwindled and I no longer have it. Fortunately, a friend nearby, still has it growing, and I'll need to get a piece back. It's a small, low growing, gray-leaved plant with refined yellow flowers, and pretty even with the few bulbils. Jane McGary's photo of the non-bulbilliferous variety; A. scorzonerifolium var. xericiense; can be found at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Misc%20Onions It might be that this allium shows the same variability as the american Allium canadense. Normally very weedy, with lots of fat, ready-to-roll bulbils, and sputtering forth one or two miserable white flowers, I have a form of this species, from two collections in Texas, where there are only 3-4 bulbils in the inflorescence, and the flower heads are showy and mostly floriferous. One collection is palest pink, the other is clear white. Thad Howard of Texas, collected these plants growing amongst millions of normal highly bulbilliferous plants, and dubbed the plant "forma florosum" (unpublished). Pictures of this rare floriferous form, and an ornamental red-bulbil form of A. canadense, can be found at the America Allium page on the PBS Wiki at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/American%20onions Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Oct 22 21:08:19 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031022112625.00b822a0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Database research Query 1 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:38:36 -0700 Dash asked for feedback on what should be included in a horticultural database intended for collections management. Compared to a botanic garden or major nursery, I have only a small collection (my database has about 1300 entries), but here are some features I would want: 1. Ability to sort, display, and print in a variety of layouts for different purposes. And the layouts should be easy to design! 2. Exportable to a Word document, so the list can be e-mailed to people who don't have the database program. 3. In addition to the obvious nomenclature fields, here are those I use: source, date acquired, location (I have the bulb frames coded in numbered sections), cost per bulb, price (if I sell bulbs), flowering date, and comments. Others might want fields such as height and flower description -- if I want to note these, I put them in "Comment". Another useful field, which I'll add to my database soon, would be "Authority," for citation of the books or articles where you have checked the plant against its published description -- something we all need to do more. [And another topic entirely is a really good bibliography on bulbs, indexed by genera and maybe species, which we should put together cooperatively and add to the PBS website. I will volunteer to coordinate such a project, since massive bibliographies are one of my specialties.] 4. Would there be a way to add thumbnail photos, or would that make the database too big? Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From dejager@bulbargence.com Wed Oct 22 15:38:11 2003 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Gordon Summerfield: ENVIRONMENT AND CONDITIONS Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:32:59 +0200 Dear PBS forum, Gordon has very kindly replied to the inquiry of Rob Hamilton. He suggested for a better understanding of his philosophy firstly to post the integral text of his talk of at the IBSA conference. Mary Sue mentioned already several points. But you will see that his experience is of great value and corresponds very well wih the actual topic of the week. Regards Lauw de Jager CREATING THE RIGHT ENVIRONMENT AND CONDITIONS It is never my intention to tell people how to grow our winter rainfall bulbs and corms, but rather to share my experiences of growing them over the past 15 years or so. The Illustrated Oxford dictionary defines; ENVIRONMENT: as - surroundings, region, conditions or influences and CONDITIONS: as circumstances, especially those essential to a ëthingsí existence. With this in mind, I have adopted, over the last couple of years, a very simple common-sense approach to growing bulbs and corms. It is always good to listen and learn from other successful growers, however at the end of the day it will be very much a trial and error experience. One is never too old to learn. My main interests are the winter rainfall geophytes of the Western Cape, Northern Cape, Namaqualand and to a lesser degree the Southern & Eastern Cape. Until recent times little was written, documented and published on the active cultivation of our indigenous geophytes. Fortunately the Kirstenbosch Gardening series by Graham Duncan and the very recent "Color encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs" by Manning, Goldblatt and Snijman have served to remove much of the previous "myth" that these bulbs and corms were difficult, if not impossible to grow. There are certain genera and species that do prove difficult to grow such as Gladiolus bullatus, G. cardinalis and G. nerinoides, however by creating the right environment and conditions (similar to their natural habitat) it is possible to cultivate them and others, successfully. In the 'Color encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs' the authors state "Most bulbs (and Cape Bulbs are no exception) respond best in cultivation if their natural growth requirements are duplicated as closely as possible" Provided one uses a sound nutritious, (probably neutral) well-drained soil medium, the three next most important denominators for successful cultivation are; Aspect (ie. situation) Planting strategy Feeding (& watering) Before dealing with each of these issues, I am of the opinion that the potential grower does need to know something of the environment and conditions that the seed or bulb/corm originated from. If this information is not automatically forthcoming donít be shy to ask! Without this knowledge it is tantamount to ëtravelling without a road mapí! I believe it is encumbent upon all suppliers/distributors of seed and corms to divulge this information (or some similar advice) thereby enabling potential growers/growers to make an educated or calculated decision as to the appropriate growing medium, aspect and watering requirements. ASPECT: Ideal is a south/south-east aspect, preferably benefitting from morning sun, although full sun is not essential. The late afternoon setting sun can prove quite harsh, particularly in late Autumn or late Spring when temperatures on the whole are quite raised. In their natural habitat, far more geophytes (& general Fynbos) will be found on the cooler and damper S/SE facing aspects. Of course there are those plants which favour the drier and warmer N/NW aspect. A point of interest, many of the Iridaceae species will naturally flower facing S/SE. HOUSING: Where one experiences heavy night/early morning dew, it is advisable to grow the softer leafed species, such as Daubenya's, Lachenalia's, Gethyllis, Massonia's as well as certain Freesia's, Romulea's and Geissorhiza's amongst others, under cover. However, always ensuring that there is sufficient natural light and good, free air movement. I certainly have enjoyed far greater success since adopting this approach. it has reduced incidences of crown rot, Botrytis and Fusarium infections to almost nil. One does however, have to be extremely vigilant and most wary of infestations of Mealy bug, Aphids and Red spider mite (due to the drier conditions) and take the necessary curative action. There is also a noticeable reduction in the incidence of rust to which certain species of Lachenalia's, such as L. unifolia, L. variegata & L. viridiflora are particularly prone. The need for full sun (whilst probably ideal) is not from my experience essential or indeed necessary. Yes, one will produce slightly lankier plant growth, but then that is also what happens in their natural habitat when growing from under the protection of fynbos/shrubbery. PLANTING: I always start with a good neutral, well-drained (ie. porous) soil medium, made up of ± 60% river sand and ± 40% commercial potting soil (containing no superphosphates!) to which I add additional nutrients/ additives through the growing season. An aspect of planting that I overlooked, to my detriment, for many years is the depth that one plants mature bulbs and corms. Consider the normal growth cycle from seed. The plant pulls itself down to the optimum level before producing flowers. So when planting mature or near-mature bulbs/corms, err on the shallow side rather than too deep. Too deep and you will produce spindly plants that will finally give up the ghost. On the other hand, planted too shallow, they might require a little more time to flowering properly. Also don't be shy to plant your bulbs/corms grouped together ie. in the middle of the container. I am convinced there is a symbiotic influence. Certain corms such as Lapeirousia's, Romulea's and Hesperantha's are bell-shaped with a flat bottom, plant these at an angle to assist their movement down to the optimum level (I always make a note of the depth of existing bulbs/corms when re-potting). FEEDING: An absolute no-no is the addition of any phosphates to the winter rainfall geophytes. However, they do respond well to a regular feeding (once per month) of Magnesium Sulphate (good leaf structure), Potassium Sulphate (Bulb & Flowering development) & Ammonium Sulphate (for Nitrogen and lowering of the pH of soil). Agricultural limestone can be added for those requiring a raised pH above neutral such as summer rainfall species, Nerine's, Cyrtanthus etc. Associated with feeding is of course watering, provided one adopts a good growing medium ie. that drains well, you can never never over-water your bulbs and corms. Also another never never is to allow your container to dry out! How would you react to being deprived of water! Again a common sense approach. Where one experiences incidences of crown rot, provide water from below. Finally temperature does have its part to play. Generally bulbs/corms are tolerant of extremes in temperature. There are certain of our ëAlpineí types, such as Gladiolus cardinalis & G. nerineoides (to name but two), for them to flower successfully one needs to provide a cool S/SE aspect, for they flower in the Western Cape's warmer months, but at high altitude and thus much cooler. Many myths and indeed untruths have been created and espoused around the difficulty of cultivating S.A. indigenous Bulbs/Corms which has unfortunately had a profoundly negative effect of creating an ethos of "conservation through cultivation". Only in recent times has a reasonable amount of good seed and bulbs/corms become available to the enthusiast and this is largely due to IBSA and its members (some of whom are commercial suppliers and growers). However if we are to succeed even further, personal agendas need to be set aside, with successful growers willingly and genuinely sharing all their knowledge and expertise, thus ensuring that we practise what we preach and prove ourselves to be GENUINE CONSERVATIONISTS. CREATING THE RIGHT ENVIRONMENT AND CONDITIONS University of Stellenbosch Gordon Summerfield Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence From dejager@bulbargence.com Wed Oct 22 15:38:37 2003 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Daubenya Gordon Summerfield Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:33:28 +0200 Dear All, Here is the reply of Gordon: "In reply to the query of Rob from Tasmania, I am happy to oblige. "Firstly a copy of my talk from the recent IBSA symposium might be of help (see other Email). In addition to this however, all my bulbs/corms grown under cover receive no water during the dormant period and remain totally dry. This also applies to 1st and 2nd year seedlings, which tolerate the same management as mature bulbs. If they show signs of growth in the early Autumn I will immediately begin a programme of watering (including disinfecting). However I only normally begin watering, should there be no signs of growth on the 15th of April of the year. This actually goes for all my winter rainfall bulbs and corms." le 14/10/03 13:03, Robert Hamilton à roberth6@mac.com a écrit : for sharing your enlightening experience with Gordon Summerfield. > I have a query for Gordon and I wonder if Lauw will pass it on. > >> Plants like Daubenya and Massonia need good light however. Good light, >> but protection from the dew will reduce crown rot and fungal diseases. >> Watering from the bottom will help as well. > > This statement implies that Daubenya and Massonia are grown under > cover to prevent dew and rainfall on the leaves. This being the > case do they remain totally dry for the summer months ? If not how > often are they watered during dormancy ? What about watering management > for first and second year seedlings during summer ? Do they > tolerate the same management as mature bulbs ? > > Having just watched the leaves on a mature Massonia echinata > disappear from crown rot ,( we had what amounts to half our years > average annual rainfall during August and September ) , the under cover > management appeals to me , as I have quite a range of first and > second year seedlings of both genera. Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence From msittner@mcn.org Wed Oct 22 16:30:13 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031022132018.00da5be0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Daubenya Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:28:46 -0700 Dear Lauw, Thanks for all of us for communicating with Gordon and posting his replies. I mentioned in my information about my trip that Alan Horstmann tried chilling his Daubenyas to see if this would improve the bloom. He chilled them dry (like some of us in warmer areas do tulips.) I have created a Daubenya wiki page and you can see his results. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Daubenya Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From arnold@nj.rr.com Wed Oct 22 21:40:42 2003 Message-Id: <3F97319A.3080508@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Database research Query 1 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:40:42 -0400 Jane: I have added thumbnail images to the data base I have in Filemaker Pro. Arnold From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Oct 22 22:51:45 2003 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Database research Query 1 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:51:29 -0700 In addition to Jane's fields, I use these: seed data: source (including seed exchange, seed donor and collection data) number of seeds (I count up to about 50, after that it's "lots") comments (if they're distinctive - eg I just sowed two species of Watsonia, with seeds like the little chips of wood you get when you sharpen a pencil with a knife - one pink, one lavender) treatment (soaking, temperature regimes, smoke etc) date sown date germinated foliage dates I change the font for plants I want but don't have yet refererence (who inspired my desire -lecturer, book, someone's pbs posting,website etc) Not done yet but soon I hope: maps. My garden map book is falling apart so I am going to do the replacement on the computer. Then I'll have all beds numbered instead of my current descriptions, eg "between leaning arbutus and Rhodo macabeanum". -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Oct 22 22:54:11 2003 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Database addenda Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:54:09 -0700 Two more: when it died and why Diane From msittner@mcn.org Wed Oct 22 23:37:10 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031022201208.00dbbe00@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Database research Query 1 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:34:59 -0700 Dear All, I too use data bases which I find much superior to spread sheets when you are searching and want to come up with a whole list of things that are alike. Like Jane I use Filemaker Pro although my husband uses Access (I enjoyed hearing someone else call it Excess.) I find it very irritating with a lot of Microsoft products that if you don't keep updating you can't communicate with people who have the same product. I am sure Access can do some of the same things that Filemaker can, but I am still irritated that it was so difficult to transfer an old flower d-base I started with into Access. I finally figured out how to do it through trial and error, but didn't write it down and then when I wanted to do another one I had to struggle again. The help screens weren't helpful and I am sure they didn't want you to be able to do it easily. If I was creating one I definitely want one where information could be shared cross platform and easily exported into something commonly used. In Filemaker you can save files in many different formats including htm table format which I have found very useful when I want to send something to friends who have a Mac and can't open Excel files or Word docs. One of the things I don't like about filemaker is that you can't highlight a lot of things and then copy them somewhere else. You have to export which is much more time consuming so I'd like to be able to highlight a whole record or a whole layout and copy it so I can quickly take it somewhere else. As for fields the important thing would be to allow the individual to create whatever they wanted. I still haven't gotten over how many fields Boyce said they had for the Chicago Botanic Gardens: "Currently the database has columns to hold 110 different fields of information for our 2.2 million plants (rows of information)." I think data bases are very personal. We all of us may have different things we want to record and that is fine. I like to include the country of origin and the habitat information as that helps me figure out how to grow it. I also like to keep track of when plants break dormancy and when they bloom. I just find it interesting to see if there is a year to year pattern. Also I don't panic if a pot is still not showing life when I know that it is late to come up. Mary Sue From dejager@bulbargence.com Thu Oct 23 03:42:35 2003 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Database research Query 1 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:37:23 +0200 le 23/10/03 5:34, Mary Sue Ittner à msittner@mcn.org a écrit : Like Jane I use Filemaker Pro I also use Filemaker Pro (on Mac) 2200 records with more then 200 fields (number is unlimited) > One of the things I don't like about filemaker is that you can't highlight > a lot of things and then copy them somewhere else. You have to export which > is much more time consuming so I'd like to be able to highlight a whole > record or a whole layout and copy it so I can quickly take it somewhere else. There is a easy way (for Apple Mac at least) to copy and paste all the information of one lay-out of one record: choose the record and layout in question; then copy WITHOUT selecting a field. All the information can then be pasted any where > > As for fields the important thing would be to allow the individual to > create whatever they wanted. It is very advisable to spread out the information over a large number of fields to enable efficient use of the 'find mode' (rather than lumping information in the same field) Kind regards Lauw de Jager www.Bulb'Argence.com South of France (zone 8 Olivier) From angelopalm69@inwind.it Thu Oct 23 05:32:13 2003 Message-Id: <005a01c39948$38b532c0$fa9e623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Allim photos on Wiki Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:29:20 +0200 I regret I had no time to take some photos of two little known native Allium . One is Allium atroviolaceum, a species of eastern Mediterranean which has its western limit in Apulia -Italy. One time common in olive fields, now it is regarded as endangered, due to the farmlands activities. It is related to Allium ampeloprasum, but differs for its taller stature (70-100cm) and the dark purple flower heads and anters. It flowers in June here. It's a charming species and has some horticultural appeal for me. The other one is Allium commutatum, called sea garlic, as it dwells on the rocky lands on the sea. Bulbs are though to be salt resistant and floaters. It flowers very late for a Mediterranean plant, in July and later. This is more or less spread along all Italian coasts. Well, let's wait till next year ! Angelo Porcelli Italy From roberth6@mac.com Thu Oct 23 06:38:40 2003 Message-Id: From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Daubenya Gordon Summerfield Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:36:44 +1100 Dear Lauw, Thanks very much for contacting Gordon and for all the information you have posted. I enjoyed the logical approach and the facts - I am particularly interested to hear about not needing full sun. I am intending to start growing these genera under cover. I do have some concerns about keeping 1st year seedling bulbs totally dry for 4-5 months. I did manage to keep Gethyllis seedlings dry for several months last summer and have some of them return so I guess there is hope. Cheers, Rob in Tasmania Zone 9 From pcamusa@hotmail.com Thu Oct 23 08:24:53 2003 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: Database research Query 1 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:03:51 -0400 Its also helpful to keep track of who you sent cuttings/bulbs/seeds to. Then when plants mysteriously disappear from the garden, you know where to get starts again. Other useful categories- summer/winter growers, bloom times, when transferred from pot to ground, propagation info, whether poisonous, mature size, watering/fertilizing requirements, observed infestations and treatments, known pathogens, year seed production occurred. I also keep a couple of rich text fields for unexpected things that don't fit other categories. Regards, Phil Andrews >From: Jane McGary >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan ,Pacific Bulb Society > >Subject: Re: [pbs] Database research Query 1 >Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:38:36 -0700 > >Dash asked for feedback on what should be included in a horticultural >database intended for collections management. Compared to a botanic garden >or major nursery, I have only a small collection (my database has about >1300 entries), but here are some features I would want: > >1. Ability to sort, display, and print in a variety of layouts for >different purposes. And the layouts should be easy to design! > >2. Exportable to a Word document, so the list can be e-mailed to people who >don't have the database program. > >3. In addition to the obvious nomenclature fields, here are those I use: >source, date acquired, location (I have the bulb frames coded in numbered >sections), cost per bulb, price (if I sell bulbs), flowering date, and >comments. Others might want fields such as height and flower description -- >if I want to note these, I put them in "Comment". Another useful field, >which I'll add to my database soon, would be "Authority," for citation of >the books or articles where you have checked the plant against its >published description -- something we all need to do more. [And another >topic entirely is a really good bibliography on bulbs, indexed by genera >and maybe species, which we should put together cooperatively and add to >the PBS website. I will volunteer to coordinate such a project, since >massive bibliographies are one of my specialties.] > >4. Would there be a way to add thumbnail photos, or would that make the >database too big? > >Jane McGary >Northwestern Oregon, USA > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _________________________________________________________________ Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account has exceeded its 2MB storage limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es From jshields104@insightbb.com Thu Oct 23 09:08:03 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031023080524.026d88a0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Database research Query 1 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:08:01 -0500 Hi all, It can't be over-stated how very important Lauw's point is! Jim Shields At 09:37 AM 10/23/2003 +0200, Lauw wrote: > > > > As for fields the important thing would be to allow the individual to > > create whatever they wanted. >It is very advisable to spread out the information over a large number >of fields to enable efficient use of the 'find mode' (rather than lumping >information in the same field) >Kind regards > >Lauw de Jager >www.Bulb'Argence.com >South of France (zone 8 Olivier) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From dells@voicenet.com Thu Oct 23 09:24:31 2003 Message-Id: <200310231324.h9NDOTO22754@email1.voicenet.com> From: Subject: Imidaproclid Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Dear Doug Westfall and All, Where can I buy the form of imidaproclid (Marathon) which can be dissolved in water and used for a drench or spray? The granular form is quite expensive. Dell From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Thu Oct 23 09:27:32 2003 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476B97579@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Database research Query 1 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:27:43 -0500 Dear all: We continue to add fields to our database; and after following this discussion I suspect you can appreciate why. The amount of information that is of potential use or interest depends upon the individual user. In the case of CBG, we have to anticipate the needs of approximately 200 full time staff, 900 volunteers, a number of instructors from outside the institution as well as the Garden management, our members (45,000) and our visitors (750,000). I say anticipate because it takes time to research and enter data and we depend heavily on our volunteers to complete this work. The typical volunteer works 2-4 hours per week. After 1 1/2 years of work, one of our volunteers just completed updating all of the empty fields of data related to geographic origin in our plant names table. I can post individual table structures and/or contents to anyone who would like a 'jump start'. Typically I like to export them as Excel files since that seems to be an application most PC users have available. Alternatively I could post them on the wiki, if that is of interest or appropriate. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org From arnold@nj.rr.com Thu Oct 23 10:06:18 2003 Message-Id: <6c45e6f8f8.6f8f86c45e@rdc-nyc.rr.com> From: arnold@nj.rr.com Subject: Database research Query 1 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:06:18 -0400 Boyce: I had suggested that we (you) post some sample data bases on the Wiki Wiki even if it is only for a short period of time. Arnold From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Thu Oct 23 10:41:34 2003 Message-Id: <000701c39974$72377900$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Imidaproclid Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:46:27 -0400 Dell, Beyer makes a product now available at Home Depot, in liquid and also granular. I can not recall the name it goes by, but is in a blue plastic container. I have used it (the liquid as a systemic spray) a few times, even though one application ought to last for several months. There are still a few signs of thrips and even some cutworms in the top of the soil have been found. So to the granular form I'll go for the winter months. Kevin Preuss www.Amaryllis-Plus.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 9:24 AM Subject: [pbs] Imidaproclid > Dear Doug Westfall and All, > > Where can I buy the form of imidaproclid (Marathon) which can be > dissolved in water and used for a drench or spray? The granular form > is quite expensive. > > Dell > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From lizwat@earthlink.net Thu Oct 23 11:59:41 2003 Message-Id: <3F97FB8E.BB10C19D@earthlink.net> From: Elizabeth Waterman Subject: Imidaproclid Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:02:22 -0700 Hi Dell, In the US the concentrated form is "Bayer Advanced Garden Tree and Shrub Insect control"  with  1.47% Imidaproclid, which sounds dilute but must be further diluted..  There is also a ready to us spray form with a diluted concentration.  The concentrate is better as you can make up soil drenches etc. There is enough there to share with all your neighbors.  It is the same chemical as is used in Advantage flea control for cats. Liz dells@voicenet.com wrote: > Dear Doug Westfall and All, > >      Where can I buy the form of imidaproclid (Marathon) which can be > dissolved in water and used for a drench or spray? The granular form > is quite expensive. > > Dell > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Oct 23 21:57:04 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031023104046.00b80d10@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Database research Query 1 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:43:44 -0700 Mary Sue wrote, "I like to include the country of origin and the habitat information as that helps me figure out how to grow it. " In the "Source" field, I transcribe whatever information is provided on the seed list from which I bought the seeds, including geographic location and habitat description (these are given by the Archibalds, Ron Ratko, Watsons, and some of the Czech lists). Mary Sue's comment suggests that I look this information up in reference books and add it, but that would probably require a new field so as not to confuse the provenance of my plants. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From eagle85@flash.net Thu Oct 23 15:30:05 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Imidaproclid Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:19:19 -0700 dells@voicenet.comDoug Westfall dells@voicenet.com1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Dear Doug Westfall and All, > > Where can I buy the form of imidaproclid (Marathon) which can be > dissolved in water and used for a drench or spray? The granular form > is quite expensive. > > Dell > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Dell, Forget the 'Marathon' and get a bottle of Bayer's "Tree and Shrub Insect Control." While others places carry it, Home Depot is the least expensive. (One local nyrsery here carries it at a higher price. I think that others have made suggestions, but the "effective" dilution is 1 - 2 oz. per gallon of water. Then you can use it as a "drench," a spray, or an occasional watering. I've used it all three ways, and it IS EFFECTIVE! I've used it on Scadoxus, Hippeastrum, Haemanthus, and other things as well. If you have "stored" bulbs and the mealies are on them, soak them in this mix (I've soaked Sprekelia over night) before planting them. It also works against aphids just as effectively. Let me know if you have other questions on use of Imidacloprid. Doug From eagle85@flash.net Thu Oct 23 19:36:32 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Imidacloprid Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:25:44 -0700 Douglas WestfallDoug Westfall eagle85@flash.net1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA To all interested in the product which "devistates" mealies and aphids, it is "Imidacloprid." There has been a "typo" using the spelling "Imidaproclid." The above is the only active ingredient in Bayer's Tree and Shrub Insect Control. Doug From Antennaria@aol.com Thu Oct 23 21:58:06 2003 Message-Id: <20.1b02a8a9.2cc9e123@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Allium atroviolaceum + commutatum Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:57:55 EDT Angelo Porcelli angelopalm69@inwind.it writes: >I regret I had no time to take some photos of >two little known native Allium. One is Allium >atroviolaceum, a species of eastern Mediterranean >which has its western limit in Apulia -Italy. One >time common in olive fields, now it is regarded >as endangered, due to the farmlands activities. >It is related to Allium ampeloprasum, but differs >for its taller stature (70-100cm) and the dark >purple flower heads and anters. It flowers in June >here. It's a charming species and has some >horticultural appeal for me. The other one is >Allium commutatum, called sea garlic, as it >dwells on the rocky lands on the sea. Bulbs >are though to be salt resistant and floaters. It >flowers very late for a Mediterranean plant, in >July and later. This is more or less spread >along all Italian coasts. I grew Allium atroviolaceum about 6 years ago, perhaps in too wet a spot, as it only persisted 3-4 years, then died out. It grew to nearly 5' (150 cm) tall, much taller than the height you specify (and as specified by some books), but checking Flora Iranica and Brian Mathew's "A Review of Allium section Allium", it is indeed listed as occasionally getting as tall as 150 cm. It's a slender plant, with a largish drumstick of dark reddish purple at the top, having a most pleasing appearance. I haven't grown Allium commutatum, although I've read much about it. It's allied to Allium ampeloprasum (considered the ancestor to the leek) and Allium porrum (the leek). The height range on this one is given to be 50-180 cm, thus able to be quite tall. There are good photos of both species in the Brian Mathews publication. I find it interesting too, that a number of Mediterranean Allium species are so late flowered (late summer to autumn) including Allium callimischon (and varieties), A. cupanii, A. autumnale, Allium ericetorum, and others. Thanks Angelo for the notes on some rarely seen Allium species. Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From msittner@mcn.org Thu Oct 23 23:29:10 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031023200205.00d2d240@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Daubenya help Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:27:20 -0700 Dear All, Last year Peter Maynard announced that his Daubenya aurea has just finished blooming in November. He said he had the red form. I thought this was rather strange since Peter lives in the U.K. and the normal time for Daubenya aurea to bloom is September in South Africa so for it to be blooming in the Northern Hemisphere at the same time would be unusual. Still people sometimes are able to turn around plants as we will hopefully be discussing soon. Peter has just sent me a picture of his Daubenya in bud now and I have added it to the wiki. I am wondering if it could be a different species. There are newly assigned Daubenyas that bloom in the fall in South Africa. One of them with leaves like Peter's is Daubenya zeyheri. This plant has had these names: Massonia zeyheri, Polyxena zeyheri, Massonia pedunculataa, Massonia burchellii, Neobarkia burchellii, Massonia angustifolia. The Kirstenbosch West Coast field guide shows a picture of Massonia angustifolia which I assume is this plant and Spring and Winter Flowering Bulbs of the Cape has a picture of Neobarkia angustifolia which I assume is the same thing as well. The taxonomists must have had a field day with this one. It blooms May-June so the timing would be right for Peter's plants. Daubenya capensis also has similar leaves, but blooms at the wrong time. Here is Peter's picture: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Daubneya_sp.jpg It would seem like the center of the plant might be helpful in identifying it, but maybe there are several like that. I hope someone can identify this. I know Julian Slade is really up to date with a lot of the South African bulbs in this family. And we do have a lot of people from South Africa on this list now too who might help. I'll rename it and spell it properly once we get it identified and then we can add it to the Daubenya page. Thanks. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Fri Oct 24 00:11:23 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031023203528.00e0a570@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Databases, Bibliographies, and the Wiki Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:08:41 -0700 Dear All, I have been thinking about the proposal to add a number of databases to the wiki. I am not very enthusiastic about short term files on the wiki. We now have almost 1300 files and we haven't even had the wiki for a year. I am sure that over time it will continue to grow. It takes me quite awhile to keep on top of all of them and try to make sure that each one makes it to a wiki page. That is where they become a wonderful resource. To have to remember to remove a file later is a task that I am not eager to assume. Since ibiblio has been very generous to allow us all this space as part of their promoting information I think it is important that files that are uploaded do get linked to a wiki page. Otherwise they are just taking up space. If someone in this group would like to volunteer to summarize the discussion about data bases and make a wiki page to be linked to our miscellaneous page with this information on it we would then have a place to put some sample databases for people to try out if they have software that enables them to do so. If and when that happens, Boyce can send me the file he offered and I will transfer it to the wiki and add a link to that page. Otherwise, I suggest that people who are interested can contact him privately and ask for a copy. I think Jane's suggestion of a resource bibliography for bulbs is an excellent one and I accept her offer to compile one. When it is done, she can send it to me and I'll add it to the wiki or to the PBS web page if that is her preference. I believe the Pacific Bulb Society is still hoping that someone will volunteer to be in charge of the PBS web page. What I have put up is really basic and just fulfilled the requirement to be an entry to the wiki which we needed to have. And I'd also like to remind everyone that we ask you to keep your files a reasonable size (100 kb. or lower.) Because Mark and I spend a lot of time taking off weird files that are added to our site we are adding some limitations so some of these files will not be allowed. So if you want to add something besides an image, please check first. If you add a very large file in the future you will get a message telling you the file size is too large so to avoid disappointment please reduce those files before you upload them. Also if you have an unusual name for one of your files you should tell us too. We often take files off without looking at them if they have strange names. Unfortunately, I took off one of Angelo's files named Destruction.jpg. not knowing until he wrote later that it was intended for our group. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From angelopalm69@inwind.it Fri Oct 24 03:58:54 2003 Message-Id: <001701c39a04$5a386d60$a2b0623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Allium atroviolaceum + commutatum Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:56:36 +0200 Yes Mark, Allium atroviolaceum can also reach that size and I have found even plants with a full 10cm (4'') flower heads, very nice. The stalk is slim, no more then 1 cm. The commutatum is a more robust plant in overall appearence. Note that both are pratically leafless when in flower, especially the commutatum. Also, both grow in rather stony soils, so good drainage should be provided. Angelo From dells@voicenet.com Fri Oct 24 06:13:39 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 46 Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:13:22 -0400 Dear Kerry, Please send me your snail mail address. Thanks, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Oct 24 17:34:41 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031024100636.00b73940@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Bibliography project Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:30:18 -0700 Mary Sue has approved of my suggestion that we compile a reference bibliography on bulbs and post it on the PBS website. I will coordinate this project by receiving entries from all of you, editing them into a consistent format, and preparing a cross-reference index. Here are some ideas; perhaps those who are more familiar with web pages can offer better ones as we proceed. I'll prepare the bibliography as a Word document unless someone has a better idea. Anyone who already has a list of relevant references (for example, the bibliography to a paper you have published) in word-processing format is welcome to send it in! I think the main use for this bib[liography] will be looking up where one can find information on specific genera and species of bulbous plants. Many books contain information on a large number of genera. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to subdivide the bib itself into sections; it should be one long list. It should be possible to edit the list on line in order to add new entries as we become aware of them. There are two ways to give the index references. One is by author and date (e.g., Mathew 1992), and the other is by numbering each entry (e.g., 897). The latter is more compact and easier to type, but it is not as intuitive as the author/date citation, and adding new entries to the list would require a complex numbering system (e.g., 897A, or 897.1, 897.2, etc.) that would not be intuitive for users. Therefore, I prefer the author/date citations. Comments welcome on this. Contributors can send me attached Word, WordPerfect, or rtf documents, or, if only a few entries are involved, just include them in an e-mail. Please send these to me directly; don't post them on the forum. Please include the following information: BOOK ENTRY: Author (include full first name, not just initial) Year of publication Full title (including subtitle if any) Place of publication Name of publisher [optional] series title and number, e.g. "Munich Botanical Monographs, 72." List of genera [and species, see comment elsewhere in this note] covered Optional Annotation: descriptive, not evaluative; limit to one short sentence, e.g. "All indexed species illustrated in color." ARTICLE ENTRY: Author (with full first name if known) Year of publication Full title Name of periodical/journal: Please spell this out, do not use abbreviations. If the publication is obscure (e.g., Mariposa, newsletter of the Calochortus Society), please indicate where published. Volume and issue number Pages (give inclusive pages, e.g. 119-132, not just initial page; this will permit users to order the article through Interlibrary Loan) List of genera and species covered. Optional Annotation: descriptive, not evaluative; limit to one brief phrase, e.g. "Describes Crocus paschei and C. biflorus ssp. albo-coronatus." Notice that I have asked only for genus names in regard to books. Finding information on single species, however, is a common task. I'm willing to enter species names for major reference books such as the RHS Dictionary of Gardening, but I don't think it's feasible to ask contributors to transcribe the whole index of such a book. Comments? To avoid duplication of effort, I will post occasionall brief updates on the forum. I'm going to start formatting the document, now, based on Rix & Phillips 1981, 1989 (the large paperback "Bulbs"), so don't bother with that one. I look forward to hearing from you, particularly those of you who specialize in particular families or genera, and those who have access to works in languages other than English. In the latter regard, do not hesitate to list these! Jane McGary Editor, Rock Garden Quarterly From rpries@sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 24 18:04:21 2003 Message-Id: <20031024220419.99441.qmail@web80002.mail.yahoo.com> From: Robt R Pries Subject: Bibliography project Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Although it sounds like a good idea, it could be very unwieldy without creating some sort of database. I have a list of references for the Iris encyclopedia I am working on that is over a thousand entries and that is but one genus. The other problem is Floras and such are going to contain many Genera. Would you create a huge list of Genera and species mentioned? It seems one would have to create some sort of guidlines. From jshields104@insightbb.com Fri Oct 24 20:31:48 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031024192947.026ec6b0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Bibliography project Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:31:46 -0500 I agree with Bob entirely on the subject of database vs. text document. Searching, sorting, cross referencing to genera and even species, that all cries out for a relational database -- or a spreadsheet with multiple tables. Jim Shields At 03:04 PM 10/24/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Although it sounds like a good idea, it could be very unwieldy without >creating some sort of database. I have a list of references for the Iris >encyclopedia I am working on that is over a thousand entries and that is >but one genus. The other problem is Floras and such are going to contain >many Genera. Would you create a huge list of Genera and species mentioned? >It seems one would have to create some sort of guidlines. >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Oct 24 21:16:31 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031024181415.00bc5420@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Bibliography project Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:16:24 -0700 Jim Shields and Robert Pries wrote, >I agree with Bob entirely on the subject of database vs. text >document. Searching, sorting, cross referencing to genera and even >species, that all cries out for a relational database -- or a spreadsheet >with multiple tables. > >Jim Shields > > > >>Although it sounds like a good idea, it could be very unwieldy without >>creating some sort of database. I have a list of references for the Iris >>encyclopedia I am working on that is over a thousand entries and that is >>but one genus. The other problem is Floras and such are going to contain >>many Genera. Would you create a huge list of Genera and species >>mentioned? It seems one would have to create some sort of guidlines. >>_______________________________________________ If Jim, Robert, and other people can design a database that I can use quickly and efficiently (and I don't find Microsoft databases to be usable in a quick, efficient manner!), and if it can present the information in a way that fairly naive users can use intuitively and easily, then I'll do it that way. Please think about the design and make some proposals. Thanks, Jane McGary From arnold@nj.rr.com Fri Oct 24 22:39:27 2003 Message-Id: <3F99E25E.8090805@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Bibliography project Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:39:26 -0400 Jane; Alan Meerow added a bibliography to the Herbertia when he was editor. I have a number of them if you would like I can photo them and send to you. Arnold From arnold@nj.rr.com Fri Oct 24 22:52:04 2003 Message-Id: <3F99E54F.9020906@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: cyclamen and nerine Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:51:59 -0400 In flower today. Arnold http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Cyclamen_hederifolium_7.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Nerine_Salmon_Supreme_1.JPG From jshields104@insightbb.com Sat Oct 25 09:22:52 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031025082121.027fa4f0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Bibliography project Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:22:38 -0500 Jane and all, If I still have my old copy of Filemaker Pro 3, I'll put something together this weekend. I have an Access lit ref DB that I made years ago; I'll see what it looks like. Should export to Filemaker easily. Jim Shields At 06:16 PM 10/24/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Jim Shields and Robert Pries wrote, > >>I agree with Bob entirely on the subject of database vs. text >>document. Searching, sorting, cross referencing to genera and even >>species, that all cries out for a relational database -- or a spreadsheet >>with multiple tables. >> >>Jim Shields >> >> >> >>>Although it sounds like a good idea, it could be very unwieldy without >>>creating some sort of database. I have a list of references for the Iris >>>encyclopedia I am working on that is over a thousand entries and that is >>>but one genus. The other problem is Floras and such are going to contain >>>many Genera. Would you create a huge list of Genera and species >>>mentioned? It seems one would have to create some sort of guidlines. >>>_______________________________________________ > >If Jim, Robert, and other people can design a database that I can use >quickly and efficiently (and I don't find Microsoft databases to be usable >in a quick, efficient manner!), and if it can present the information in a >way that fairly naive users can use intuitively and easily, then I'll do >it that way. Please think about the design and make some proposals. > >Thanks, >Jane McGary > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat Oct 25 09:23:40 2003 Message-Id: <3F9A795B.10601@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Nerine Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:23:39 -0400 One more From the IBS rescue project. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Nerine_Blanchfleur_1.JPG Arnold From dells@voicenet.com Sat Oct 25 11:08:48 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: BX 46 in the mail Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:08:37 -0400 Dear All, Your orders from BX 46 went into the mail today, Saturday. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From john@johnlonsdale.net Sat Oct 25 17:41:25 2003 Message-Id: <20031025214125.854352009E@happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: Offer of Cyclamen graecum Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 17:41:19 -0400 Hi, In recent years I've been growing hundreds of Cyclamen graecum from seed. After flowering a couple of hundred for the first time this fall, selecting maybe a dozen to keep and selling many more, I still have around 80 plants in 3 1/2" pots that are surplus to requirements. They are 3-4 years old, very well established and have a wide range of leaf forms and flower color. If anyone is interested and wants to make a reasonable offer for purchase or exchange, please drop me a private e-mail. Thanks, J. Dr John T Lonsdale, 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From ernestwells@mindspring.com Sun Oct 26 00:04:19 2003 Message-Id: <75EF17DB-0769-11D8-AFE8-000A95937A28@mindspring.com> From: Tom Wells Subject: Imidacloprid Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:04:13 -0700 Hello, Thought I would add this to the information bank. Bayer also has a 'Rose and Flower' version, half strength to 'Tree and Shrub Insect Control'. I also found a Bayer product with Imidacloprid in a stick or stake form which is slow release. All these products are on sale at 'Orange County Farm Supply' in Orange, California (near Angel Stadium and the Pond). Apex slow release fertilizers are also sold there at half the cost of Osmocote (for the same size package- 50# bags.). Tom (Southern California) On Thursday, October 23, 2003, at 04:25 PM, Douglas Westfall wrote: > Douglas WestfallDoug Westfall eagle85@flash.net1111 Claiborne Dr. Long > Beach, CA > > To all interested in the product which "devastates" mealies and > aphids, it > is "Imidacloprid." There has been a "typo" using the spelling > "Imidaproclid." The above is the only active ingredient in Bayer's > Tree and > Shrub Insect Control. > > Doug > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From rpries@sbcglobal.net Sun Oct 26 01:07:14 2003 Message-Id: <20031026050703.48547.qmail@web80010.mail.yahoo.com> From: Robt R Pries Subject: Bibliography project Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:07:03 -0700 (PDT) Dear Jane, Jim and All; I am no great lover of spreadsheets and databases but I wanted to explain my point. As a bibliography to a book I like very much the author title format. But as a stand alone piece what good is it? If you are just interested in authors it is great, but most of us want some information about a particular bulb species. If one looks at most scientific journals today, they have at the beginning of each article a list of keywords. If one placed these three or four words in searchable fields, then one could still present the author title information but have a way of searching the data for special topics. This works for short papers. But what about Floras and the like. You would have to have a field for every species listed to be of value. Of course that would be great. I can imagine how nice it would be if one could enter a species name and bring up all the literature that related to that species. Unfortunately that would be a huge task. But as I explained before a simple list of authors-date-titles would soon get out of hand and be of little value. I can provide such a list of over a thousand works relating to Iris but of what value is it. As it stands as part of the Encyclopedia of Iris it notes where information in that work comes from. But using it to work backwards would not be very productive unless one wanted to repeat the ten years of research I have just completed, From jshields104@insightbb.com Sun Oct 26 08:18:40 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031026081253.00b115d0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Bibliography project Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 08:18:38 -0500 Rpbert, Jane, and all, This is where relational tables come into play. One table for the reference, with an ID number unique to each article or book. E.g., Bulbs, Revised; John Bryan, Ed.; REFID=1 The Lachenalia Handbook; by Graham Duncan; REFID=2 One table for each unique taxon, where there is a record for each time a given taxon is listed in a reference: Scadoxus membranaceus REFID=1 Lachenalia pusilla REFID=1 Lachenalia bachmannii REFID=1 Lachenalia pusilla REFID=2 Lachenalia bachmannii REFID=2 If you see the point..... Jim Shields At 10:07 PM 10/25/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Dear Jane, Jim and All; > >I am no great lover of spreadsheets and databases but I wanted to explain >my point. As a bibliography to a book I like very much the author title >format. But as a stand alone piece what good is it? If you are just >interested in authors it is great, but most of us want some information >about a particular bulb species. If one looks at most scientific journals >today, they have at the beginning of each article a list of keywords. If >one placed these three or four words in searchable fields, then one could >still present the author title information but have a way of searching the >data for special topics. This works for short papers. But what about >Floras and the like. You would have to have a field for every species >listed to be of value. Of course that would be great. I can imagine how >nice it would be if one could enter a species name and bring up all the >literature that related to that species. Unfortunately that would be a >huge task. But as I explained before a simple list of > authors-date-titles would soon get out of hand and be of little value. I > can provide such a list of over a thousand works relating to Iris but of > what value is it. As it stands as part of the Encyclopedia of Iris it > notes where information in that work comes from. But using it to work > backwards would not be very productive unless one wanted to repeat the > ten years of research I have just completed, >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Oct 26 18:05:55 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031026104608.00b7bea0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Bibliography project Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:09:48 -0800 Robert Pries wrote, > >most of us want some information about a particular bulb species. ... at > the beginning of each article a list of keywords. If one placed these > three or four words in searchable fields, then one could still present > the author title information but have a way of searching the data for > special topics. This works for short papers. But what about Floras and > the like. You would have to have a field for every species listed to be > of value. I was not proposing a simple list; I mentioned that the bibliography would be "indexed" at least by genera. The index could simply be an editable text document, separate from the list but referring to its entries either by unique numbers or by some other convention (such as author/date); or it could be integrated with the list in a single database. This is what we need to decide, and what I need help in designing. It would be most useful to list every species in the index. The hardest reference task for me is looking up obscure names, and these often turn out to be invalid names. In the sample index entries I've been playing with, I decided to list synonyms in the format "[Cyclamen] neapolitanum = hederifolium"; the equal sign is more efficient than "see", the usual convention for index cross-reference. I haven't been putting subspecies and varieties in the index at this point, on the assumption that this tracking these down is work that can be done by the user. I've proposed annotations (very brief, objective ones) be included in the bibliography entries, so the user can decide, for example, that she is more likely to find Crocus biflorus ssp. crewei in Mathew's monograph of that genus than in his "Complete Guide to Growing Bulbs," even though C. biflorus is indexed to both. Furthermore, mentioning that Phillips & Rix illustrates all the indexed plants will tell the user that a photo of the subject can be found there, though perhaps not anywhere else. Some indexes use a typographic convention to signal illustration, but this is probably more work than we want to do. Regarding Jim Shields's proposal for a relational database: Aren't such databases extremely space-consuming, with a "different table for each taxon" as Jim writes? Hope this clarifies my thinking. Jane McGary From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Sun Oct 26 14:20:52 2003 Message-Id: <20031026192037.44837.qmail@span.corp.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Lilium seeds Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:20:37 -0800 (PST) I had a L. regal alba that produced some seeds this year all on their own. My question is, are they supposed to be clear and no coloration of an embryo? Are are my seeds just duds? If not, what do I do with them now? John Ingram in L.A., CA. 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Sun Oct 26 17:51:58 2003 Message-Id: <1ADtjh-18jPyS0@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: Imidacloprid Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:51:49 +0100 Dear All, After reading your contributions about Imidacloprid I feel like adding another point of view. It is a product by Bayer and sold under the brand name of Provado here in Germany. It is relatively new and indeed is very effective. It has no smell (many pesticides are mixed with an agent that makes them smell "poisonous" in order to increase the safety of the product) is not visible after spraying and has not done any leaf damage even to hairy Gesneriad leaves. It is extremely long lasting after spraying, one spraying is said to be effective for a "considerable time" but the instruction on the box does not say for how long exactly. It says strictly one treatment only but scale insects may not be fully controlled (yes, I agreee) I spoke quite enthusiastically to a professional gardener about this product as I thought I had found the perfect cure for all the pests. But he warned me saying that by eyperience such potent products will sooner or later develop resistences in many insects and for this reason it is better to use other, less potent products in between. Besides this it is dangerous do bees and must not be sprayed onto flowering plants (it does not say for how long before flowering) The touble with bee-toxic products is that it may kill the bee but even worse if the bee is not killed it will carry the poison into the honey.... All the best! Uli From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Oct 26 18:07:46 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031026150541.00b76f28@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Crocus medius Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:07:42 -0800 I regret to report that the stock of Crocus medius that I thought was virus-free has now started showing some streaking of the flowers. I distributed some of this this past summer. I suggest that anyone who has it remove it from collections of crocuses that the virus may threaten. If you have it in the garden along with crocuses obtained from commercial sources, you probably can leave it there, because the virus is no doubt present already. Please write me privately for a refund. Sorry, Jane McGary From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Oct 26 19:37:41 2003 Message-Id: <3F9C68D4.8030605@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Leucojum_aestivum_Gravetye Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:37:40 -0500 This one was missing from the leucojum page. Arnold http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Leucojum_aestivum_Gravetye_.JPG From ksa@del.net Sun Oct 26 21:28:49 2003 Message-Id: <00b401c39c32$0afac3d0$1ac978d1@Kathy8200> From: "Kathy Andersen" Subject: Lilium seeds Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:28:37 -0500 John, I'm afraid that if you cannot see an embryo when you hold a seed up to the light, it is not there. Have never encountered an invisible one. You might want to plant a few of the stronger ones just to be sure. ProMix or a similar sterile medium with a little milled peat moss on top of the seeds should coax out any unseen embryos. Kathy Andersen ksa@del.net Wilmington, Delaware Zone 6b-7a ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ingram" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 2:20 PM Subject: [pbs] Lilium seeds > > I had a L. regal alba that produced some seeds this year all on their own. My question is, are they supposed to be clear and no coloration of an embryo? Are are my seeds just duds? If not, what do I do with them now? > > > > > John Ingram in L.A., CA. > 310.709.1613 > jjingram@adelphia.net > Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com > www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Sun Oct 26 22:52:51 2003 Message-Id: <3F9C9685.1080504@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Imidacloprid Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:52:37 -0600 Dear Uli: You've given me the "guts" to chime in... My experience with Imidacloprid under the granular form called Marathon was very positive, but I must emphasize you should use as directed, and I strongly recommend using another form or two of protection in a cycle, even if those forms do not control your scale, whitefly, etc. as well. I knew a graduate student who, at the first sign of whitefly activity would treat again with Marathon, time after time. The product, of course lasted a long time each cycle, but she continued to use it in a greenhouse environment without any thought of some form of integrated pest management. Within a year, the whiteflies had developed resistence. Johannes-Ulrich Urban wrote: >saying that by eyperience such potent products will sooner or later develop >resistences in many insects and for this reason it is better to use other, less >potent products in between. > > -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From samarak@gizmoworks.com Sun Oct 26 23:47:48 2003 Message-Id: From: Steve Marak Subject: Offer of Cyclamen graecum Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 22:47:46 -0600 (CST) On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, John Lonsdale wrote: > Hi, > > In recent years I've been growing hundreds of Cyclamen graecum from seed. > After flowering a couple of hundred for the first time this fall, selecting > maybe a dozen to keep and selling many more, I still have around 80 plants > in 3 1/2" pots that are surplus to requirements. They are 3-4 years old, > very well established and have a wide range of leaf forms and flower color. > If anyone is interested and wants to make a reasonable offer for purchase or > exchange, please drop me a private e-mail. > > Thanks, > > J. > > Dr John T Lonsdale, > 407 Edgewood Drive, > Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA > > Home: 610 594 9232 > Cell: 484 678 9856 > Fax: 801 327 1266 > > Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net > > USDA Zone 6b > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > -- Steve Marak -- samarak@gizmoworks.com From KKerston@aol.com Mon Oct 27 02:32:37 2003 Message-Id: <4f.3608c380.2cce240e@aol.com> From: KKerston@aol.com Subject: Pacific BX 46 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 02:32:30 EST Dell, Kerry Kerston 3403 Russet Rd. Brier, WA 98036 Thanks, KK From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Mon Oct 27 06:29:19 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20031027222917.007fb3a0@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Fires in California Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 22:29:17 +1100 Howdy All, On our news here we've been seeing the dreadful fire storms hitting parts of California. Particularly concerning to some of us here in Canberra, Australia where last summer our city lost around 400 houses in a single day to a freak fire storm. Thankfully ours was only a single day whereas reports are that the Californians are expecting the same weather conditions for the next 4 days or so (Ouch!!) and they've already lost more than 500 houses and climbing all the time. This message is just to wish all the best to those on the list who are anywhere near the fires. Here's hoping that none of us are affected too badly. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From dells@voicenet.com Mon Oct 27 06:54:18 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 47 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 06:54:06 -0500 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 47" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Charles Hardman: 1. Small bulbs (~2 cm) of unbloomed Nerine sarniensis cultivars. "These bulbs should produce many beautiful flowers." 2. Small bulbs (~2 cm) of Nerine x 'Mansellii' (N. flexuosa x N. curvifolia) "Grown by the millions in Europe for late cut flowers as it is an easy bloomer." From Ann Marie Rametta: 3. Small bulbs (2 cm) of Amaryllis belladonna From Bill Welch: 4. Seed of Amaryllis belladonna, uncrossed deep red. From Mary Sue Ittner: 5. Small bulblets of Cyrtanthus elatus x montanus, Limited quantity "mine finally bloomed this year and it was gorgeous, just like Bill Dijk's pictures on the wiki" 6. Seed of Amaryllis belladonna hybrids (from the Les Hannibal bulbs) From Alf Vjalbeck: SEED: 7. Lilium martagon, light purple 8. Lilium formosanum pricei 9. Lilium martagon, v. album 10. Lilium regale 11. Habranthus robustus 12. Habranthus tubispathus texensis 13. Habranthus brachyandrus 14. Allium caeruleum 15. Allium cyathophorum v. farreri 16. Eucomis bicolor, striated stem 17. Paris quadrifolia 18. Lapeirousia spp., anceps, divaricata, grandiflora, mixed From Mary Sue Ittner: SEED: 19. Hesperantha latifolia 20. Brodiaea californica--Tall California native, purple flowers 21. Leucocoryne vittae--one of my favorites, long blooming in spring, look at Sheila's picture on the wiki 22. Polyxena ensifolia--IBSA Seed, collected at Middlepos which is a colder area by Berger van Eeden Thank you, Charles, Ann Marie, Bill, Mary Sue, and Alf !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Mon Oct 27 09:25:40 2003 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476B97581@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Bibliography project Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:25:51 -0600 Hi Jane and all: What software application the database uses is less important than it being a relational database. For ease of data entry and retrieval it should be relatively straight forward to use at the user interface (front end). This does not mean the backend tables have to be flat files (non-relational). Basically a table containing bibliographic references with more than one field to hold key codes to link it to a second table containing plant names is all that is needed. In the bibliographic references I encourage a simple Yes/No field to identify if this literature citation represents the first time a scientific name was published. The plant names table could be a single table with fields for taxonomic fields. Alternatively, the plant name table could be relatively elegant with a link to a plant family:genus index table to autofill the plant family name when the genus name is selected (many to one relationship in order to support more than one plant family (when will the plant family relationships/names settle down?)). A second table would be linked in a similar way to hold recognized synonyms. In this way regardless of what a 'user' typed into a query, they would also find references citing an 'old' plant family name or an 'old' synonym. Important when dealing with literature that spans over a hundred years of scientific thought and revisions. A third table could cross-reference common names (a quagmire) but important for many people attempting to find information. Which field is chosen to be required depends upon what level of 'data mining' is anticipated. Based upon a quick review of some of the literature, I would recommend the genus name field. It all depends on how much time anyone wants to invest in creating the database. The important aspect is that regardless of whether the elegant or straightforward approach is taken only one of the fields needs to be 'required'. For instance, the CBG database could not support this sort of data collection and cross-referencing because it is designed to require both genus and species and currently the bibliographic reference is handled by a single text field (I am in the process of creating a bibliographic table to standardize the way we cite literature references and to enable more than one literature citations per plant name. GRRR, much more touchy to retro program a database instead of creating from scratch). Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: J.E. Shields [mailto:jshields104@insightbb.com] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 8:23 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Bibliography project Jane and all, If I still have my old copy of Filemaker Pro 3, I'll put something together this weekend. I have an Access lit ref DB that I made years ago; I'll see what it looks like. Should export to Filemaker easily. Jim Shields At 06:16 PM 10/24/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Jim Shields and Robert Pries wrote, > >>I agree with Bob entirely on the subject of database vs. text >>document. Searching, sorting, cross referencing to genera and even >>species, that all cries out for a relational database -- or a spreadsheet >>with multiple tables. >> >>Jim Shields >> >> >> >>>Although it sounds like a good idea, it could be very unwieldy without >>>creating some sort of database. I have a list of references for the Iris >>>encyclopedia I am working on that is over a thousand entries and that is >>>but one genus. The other problem is Floras and such are going to contain >>>many Genera. Would you create a huge list of Genera and species >>>mentioned? It seems one would have to create some sort of guidlines. >>>_______________________________________________ > >If Jim, Robert, and other people can design a database that I can use >quickly and efficiently (and I don't find Microsoft databases to be usable >in a quick, efficient manner!), and if it can present the information in a >way that fairly naive users can use intuitively and easily, then I'll do >it that way. Please think about the design and make some proposals. > >Thanks, >Jane McGary > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From hkoopowi@uci.edu Mon Oct 27 11:13:23 2003 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20031027081232.01996350@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Fires in California Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:13:20 -0800 On the bright side, if there is one. My garden is covered with wood ash. Should have good flower colors this spring. Harold At 10:29 PM 10/27/2003 +1100, you wrote: >Howdy All, > >On our news here we've been seeing the dreadful fire storms hitting parts >of California. Particularly concerning to some of us here in Canberra, >Australia where last summer our city lost around 400 houses in a single day >to a freak fire storm. Thankfully ours was only a single day whereas >reports are that the Californians are expecting the same weather conditions >for the next 4 days or so (Ouch!!) and they've already lost more than 500 >houses and climbing all the time. > >This message is just to wish all the best to those on the list who are >anywhere near the fires. Here's hoping that none of us are affected too >badly. > >Cheers. > >Paul Tyerman >Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 >mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au > >Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, >Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about >anything else that doesn't move!!!!! > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Prof. Harold Koopowitz Ecology and Evolutionary Biology University of California, Irvine, CA 92697 From franc@oregonfast.net Mon Oct 27 13:04:13 2003 Message-Id: <3F9D5E58.2010701@oregonfast.net> From: Sam Franc Subject: Watsonia Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:05:12 -0800 My watsonia did not bloom this year at all here on the Oregon coast. It has bloomed every year up to now. There was quite a bit of foliage so it was not dead. Does it stop blooming if it gets too crowded? It is not a real big clump. Just about 8 inches across. Sam From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Oct 27 18:57:29 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031027095540.00b83720@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Bibliography project Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:11:36 -0800 Thanks to Boyce Tankersley for his thoughtful remarks on the bibliography database project. My reaction is that Boyce is envisioning a reference aimed more at the scientific user than at the amateurs I was thinking of serving. I believe there are existing bibliographic sources on the Web for botany, are there not? No sense in duplicating their effort; what I had in mind was a parallel tool indexing books and journals not covered by existing sites. Boyce wrote, >In the bibliographic references I encourage a simple Yes/No field to identify if this literature citation represents the first time a scientific name was published. That's probably a good idea. >The plant names table could be a single table with fields for taxonomic >fields. Yes, if we decide to use tables. >Alternatively, the plant name table could be relatively elegant with a >link to a plant family:genus index table to autofill the plant family name >when the genus name is selected (many to one relationship in order to >support more than one plant family (when will the plant family >relationships/names settle down?)). A second table would be linked in a >similar way to hold recognized synonyms. ... A third table could >cross-reference common names (a quagmire) but important for many people >attempting to find information. > I think the first suggestion in the paragraph above is too refined for our purposes, and also it requires that the person doing the data entry make a decision about family membership, which, as Boyce mentions, is more than a lot of botanists can agree on. As for a second table of synonyms, I would rather include the synonyms in the same table, or document, as the current names, with a convention to direct the user to the current name, e.g. "Cyclamen neapolitanum = hederifolium". As for common names, that is a whole other project, albeit an interesting one for a linguist; I won't volunteer for it, but I think we could run a fascinating data collection through the PBS forum and perhaps Alpine-L. In any case, you could include the common names in the same format as synonym cross-references, as many indexes to books do. >Which field is chosen to be required depends upon what level of 'data >mining' is anticipated. Based upon a quick review of some of the >literature, I would recommend the genus name field. Undoubtedly right. However, I think the data mining is more likely to be genus+species. I'd be most likely to use such a tool to find information on obscure species names that come attached to seeds I buy. (And that means that we have to index the relevant genera in the Flora of the USSR, which is where most of these unknown names come from.) This brings me to another topic I've been thinking about: Where to draw the line on inclusion. I suggest that the database be limited to bulbous (in the broad sense) monocots. That would eliminate, e.g., Anemone and Ranunculus, and part of the genus Iris. I'd also exclude the Agavaceae, unless presented with a persuasive argument to the contrary. However, I would like to include the Alstroemeriaceae, because I like them so much.... I am seeking expert help on this database problem and will report when I have more information. Jane McGary From msittner@mcn.org Mon Oct 27 15:18:31 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031027115356.00dc2e10@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Bulbs that can be converted to another cycle--TOW Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:15:49 -0800 Dear All, The topic for this week is bulbs that can be converted to another cycle. I couldn't quite figure out how to phrase this so it would be shorter and clearer. I am hoping that all of you will share your experiences trying to grow bulbs a different way than the would be found in nature. Have any of you in cold climates been able to grow tender bulbs in the summer that would not survive your climates otherwise? Have any of you with harsh hot summers been able to grow plants that would like it cooler at another time, say spring? I know that Lisa Flaum has been trying to turn winter growers into summer growers and I hope she will share how it is going. Some plants must respond to light and temperature one would think. A number of years ago a man from Seattle told that he could grow Ferraria in summer there and found it just wasn't happy in his long wet cool winter, but grew quite happily in his cool dryer summers when there was more light. I am wondering what other things could be treated this way. Andrew Wilson sent me a piece of a Pelargonium. I'm not sure if is one that counts as a geophyte, but he was definitely able to send this piece to me that looked like a dry stick. Although it had gone dormant for the summer already, when I watered it, it sprung to life and even starting blooming late summer. A friend told me of buying Sandersonia at the local farmer's market as a late harvest flower in fall. This one obviously can be grown at different times of the year. Slightly related to this, has anyone found that when they buy a bulb from another hemisphere that starts to grow at the wrong time that they can keep it growing at this time. I got two bulbs of Boophone from Rhoda and Cameron and I am wondering if I can keep them winter growing. No one responded about Peter's Daubenya. Have others found that Daubenya aurea is fall blooming for them instead of spring? So please share your experiences everyone. I know there are some people really eager to hear about this. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From msittner@mcn.org Mon Oct 27 15:21:50 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031027121734.00dbc2a0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Watsonia Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:20:24 -0800 Dear Sam, I have uneven blooming from Watsonias and think they benefit from dividing. When I was in South Africa, I learned that some species don't bloom reliably except after a fire. I suspect my other problem has been that some of the areas of my garden where they grow has become too shady. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From rmsachs@ucdavis.edu Mon Oct 27 15:44:42 2003 Message-Id: From: "Roy M. Sachs" Subject: Watsonia Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:47:08 -0800 >My watsonia did not bloom this year at all here on the Oregon coast. >It has bloomed every year up to now. >There was quite a bit of foliage so it was not dead. >Does it stop blooming if it gets too crowded? >It is not a real big clump. Just about 8 inches across. >Sam I second Mary Sue's suggestion that excessive shade may be the problem; my large clumps push out blooms from the edges. Roy From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon Oct 27 16:11:51 2003 Message-Id: <004101c39cce$fc596960$a1352ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Bulbs that can be converted to another cycle--TOW Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 21:12:09 -0000 brilliant topic I have several Pelargoniums that I would like to try to change from winter growers into summer growers so they can take a break in a dry frost free shed. And I got some Galanthus from Paul in Australia that need to get their clocks reset Mark N Ireland ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Sue Ittner" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 8:15 PM Subject: [pbs] Bulbs that can be converted to another cycle--TOW > Dear All, > > The topic for this week is bulbs that can be converted to another cycle. I > couldn't quite figure out how to phrase this so it would be shorter and > clearer. I am hoping that all of you will share your experiences trying to > grow bulbs a different way than the would be found in nature. Have any of > you in cold climates been able to grow tender bulbs in the summer that > would not survive your climates otherwise? Have any of you with harsh hot > summers been able to grow plants that would like it cooler at another time, > say spring? I know that Lisa Flaum has been trying to turn winter growers > into summer growers and I hope she will share how it is going. Some plants > must respond to light and temperature one would think. > > A number of years ago a man from Seattle told that he could grow Ferraria > in summer there and found it just wasn't happy in his long wet cool winter, > but grew quite happily in his cool dryer summers when there was more light. > I am wondering what other things could be treated this way. > > Andrew Wilson sent me a piece of a Pelargonium. I'm not sure if is one that > counts as a geophyte, but he was definitely able to send this piece to me > that looked like a dry stick. Although it had gone dormant for the summer > already, when I watered it, it sprung to life and even starting blooming > late summer. > > A friend told me of buying Sandersonia at the local farmer's market as a > late harvest flower in fall. This one obviously can be grown at different > times of the year. > > Slightly related to this, has anyone found that when they buy a bulb from > another hemisphere that starts to grow at the wrong time that they can keep > it growing at this time. I got two bulbs of Boophone from Rhoda and Cameron > and I am wondering if I can keep them winter growing. > > No one responded about Peter's Daubenya. Have others found that Daubenya > aurea is fall blooming for them instead of spring? > > So please share your experiences everyone. I know there are some people > really eager to hear about this. > > Mary Sue > > > PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From brian.whyer@which.net Mon Oct 27 16:12:29 2003 Message-Id: <000201c39ccf$05fe6fb0$f44cfd3e@2CVEVE1> From: "Brian Whyer" Subject: Bulbs that can be converted to another cycle--TOW Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 21:12:25 -0000 I am not sure this fits this TOW, "can be" being replaced by "are" maybe. Ornithogalum arabicum I used to see each year at the Chelsea flower show on the Avon bulbs stand in late May, with large heads of approximately 3cm./1 1/4" diameter flowers with a dramatic black centre. Stock I think originating from Holland, and not appreciably forced if I remember correctly. Every time I have bought it since from various sources it has usually sulked and only occasionally flowered, but never in spring, and always with smaller flowers around 2cm./ 3/4" diameter. At present I have had one bulb in flower for at least 6 weeks in my frost free greenhouse, in a 5" pot, and it has many weeks to go still, and it looks me in the eye at 6' tall, complete with attendant menacing spider. Other times when it has bothered to grow or flower it is never in a spring cycle. Is there more than one form of this plant with completely differing seasons of growth? I am told that cyclamen persicum, the species that is not the florist's hybrids, can be flowered in the autumn if it is started into growth early enough in late summer. Am I seeing a similar effect? I grow the ornithogalum under whatever goes for natural conditions in my greenhouse each year. Mainly neglect for this bulb, needless to say at this height it sits on the floor on gravel. Brian Whyer, zone 8'ish, Buckinghamshire, England From jamievande@freenet.de Mon Oct 27 16:39:28 2003 Message-Id: <021f01c39cd2$c8fa06c0$6402a8c0@celeron> From: "Jamie" Subject: Bulbs that can be converted to another cycle--TOW Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 22:39:15 +0100 Jamie Vande Cologne Germany Zone 8 I've seen the bulb displays by Avon Bulbs at Chelsea and they are truly amazing! One sees blossoms together that one would never have in the garden, the seasons are simply wrong. But is this what this TOW is about? Forcing bulbs to produce flowers out of season and changing around the cycle are two different things, or am I being to critical? (of course, both should be discussed, I'm just being difficult!) I do think there are different mechanisms at play. For those who were members in the Spring, do you remember the Lachenalia I mentioned buying, being purported as Spring bulbs. Well, the reality was different, they went dormant almost as soon as they hit the soil. Now, I have leaves appearing and we'll see if I get blossom or not. They did not turn around . We are currently enjoying our Cyclamen persicum cv extravaganza in Germany. They are everywhere in the stores, just like every year, but getting better and better. The leaf forms and colours are truly wonderful and, I've been told, they are managing to get fragrance into them! And they cost €2,00 to €5,00, sometimes less! How do they do it? Otherwise, I've never managed to turn around any bulb, other than Hippeastrum, which is confused in my climate anyway! From mysticgardn@yahoo.com Mon Oct 27 18:20:21 2003 Message-Id: <20031027232020.65218.qmail@web40507.mail.yahoo.com> From: Ann Marie Subject: Pacific BX 47 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:20:20 -0800 (PST) Item 3 on box 47 are dark pink and white A. belladonna these are from Betty Doutt's hybrids. Someday I'll get time to but a photo on the wiki. Ann Marie Dell Sherk wrote: Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 47" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Charles Hardman: 1. Small bulbs (~2 cm) of unbloomed Nerine sarniensis cultivars. "These bulbs should produce many beautiful flowers." 2. Small bulbs (~2 cm) of Nerine x 'Mansellii' (N. flexuosa x N. curvifolia) "Grown by the millions in Europe for late cut flowers as it is an easy bloomer." From Ann Marie Rametta: 3. Small bulbs (2 cm) of Amaryllis belladonna From Bill Welch: 4. Seed of Amaryllis belladonna, uncrossed deep red. From Mary Sue Ittner: 5. Small bulblets of Cyrtanthus elatus x montanus, Limited quantity "mine finally bloomed this year and it was gorgeous, just like Bill Dijk's pictures on the wiki" 6. Seed of Amaryllis belladonna hybrids (from the Les Hannibal bulbs) From Alf Vjalbeck: SEED: 7. Lilium martagon, light purple 8. Lilium formosanum pricei 9. Lilium martagon, v. album 10. Lilium regale 11. Habranthus robustus 12. Habranthus tubispathus texensis 13. Habranthus brachyandrus 14. Allium caeruleum 15. Allium cyathophorum v. farreri 16. Eucomis bicolor, striated stem 17. Paris quadrifolia 18. Lapeirousia spp., anceps, divaricata, grandiflora, mixed From Mary Sue Ittner: SEED: 19. Hesperantha latifolia 20. Brodiaea californica--Tall California native, purple flowers 21. Leucocoryne vittae--one of my favorites, long blooming in spring, look at Sheila's picture on the wiki 22. Polyxena ensifolia--IBSA Seed, collected at Middlepos which is a colder area by Berger van Eeden Thank you, Charles, Ann Marie, Bill, Mary Sue, and Alf !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Ann Marie So. California, San Gabriel Valley, Zone 21 (Sunset Western Garden book) , influenced by both marine and interior air(Santa Ana winds). This makes it perfect for Citrus trees and most So African plants. I collect and sometimes sell belladonnas, nerines, oxalis, moraea, amaryllis, palms, epiphyllums, succulents and other south african bulbs. email me at mysticgardn@yahoo.com for list of bulbs and plants for sale. For home and garden sculptures go to http://www.rjunkdrawer.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears From rmsachs@ucdavis.edu Mon Oct 27 18:19:34 2003 Message-Id: From: "Roy M. Sachs" Subject: Bulbs that can be converted to another cycle--TOW Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:22:05 -0800 >Jamie Vande Cologne Germany Zone 8 > >I've seen the bulb displays by Avon Bulbs at Chelsea and they are truly >amazing! One sees blossoms together that one would never have in the >garden, the seasons are simply wrong. But is this what this TOW is about? >Forcing bulbs to produce flowers out of season and changing around the cycle >are two different things, or am I being to critical? (of course, both >should be discussed, I'm just being difficult!) I do think there are >different mechanisms at play. > >For those who were members in the Spring, do you remember the Lachenalia I >mentioned buying, being purported as Spring bulbs. Well, the reality was >different, they went dormant almost as soon as they hit the soil. Now, I >have leaves appearing and we'll see if I get blossom or not. They did not >turn around . > >We are currently enjoying our Cyclamen persicum cv extravaganza in Germany. >They are everywhere in the stores, just like every year, but getting better >and better. The leaf forms and colours are truly wonderful and, I've been >told, they are managing to get fragrance into them! And they cost ’Ǩ2,00 to >’Ǩ5,00, sometimes less! How do they do it? > >Otherwise, I've never managed to turn around any bulb, other than >Hippeastrum, which is confused in my climate anyway! Jamie seems to have had my experience in never turning seasons on any bulb. All of the amaryllis A. belladonna, Hippeastrum and a Crinum) from South Africa and the Nerines from Australia seem to have adapted to both climates where I cultivate plants. No flowering, but leafing out, the first year but sporadic flowering the second. Nerines are coming on now; the amaryllids finished blooming in September, but some of the Hippeastrum start quite early, say in May. I'm not sure what the 'normal' bloom time is in the regions of origin for the bulbs I received. Roy Davis, California; Sacramento Valley, very hot dry summers , mild spring and fall; irrigation required (usually) from April through October. also on the Russian River, about 90 miles north of San Francisco, and 7 miles inland from the Pacific (warm summers, cooling fogs in the late afternoons and early mornings) From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Oct 27 21:09:23 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031027160308.00b76dd8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Bibliography project Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:14:33 -0800 Rodger Whitlock wrote, The proper form of a relational database for a bibliography is a >very difficult problem to solve. The data does not lend itself >readily or obviously to the relational model. Rather than try to >devise a home-brew solution, those interested are well advised to >conduct a careful and thorough literature search and determine what >solutions have been devised by more experienced people. I am in fact in the process of doing that. I have an old friend who is a specialist in this type of computing and have just sent him an outline of what we need to do, and asked him to recommend models that have worked well in similar situations. Indeed, the planning will encompass the kinds of questions Rodger accuses us of not having asked. I've already mentioned some of them. To reply to his specific points: (1) how complete is this bibliography to be? It cannot be complete for the scientific literature, which can be accessed through other tools already anyway. If it just gets the user to widely accessible documentation, that seems like a good target. We need to compile a list of the kinds of questions potential users are likely to need answered, and then we can evaluate the coverage. In any case, some of the entries have their own extensive bibliographies, and this can be mentioned in the annotation. >(2) who is going to provide the data? and I had envisioned this as a cooperative effort, with my own work as a clearinghouse. >(3) who is going to exercise data quality control? If I enter (or edit) the data and someone else proofs them, is that quality control? >(4) in the long term, how are you going to ensure continuity of >support and function? The bulb literature is not static and any such >compilation will require ongoing work to keep it current. That's why I was proposing it as an electronic entity, not a paper publication. >It is also worthwhile remembering that such indexes as Botanical >Abstracts exist, and no doubt some institutions (the RHS and Kew, in >particular) may have in-house indexes. What is the relationship of >the proposed bibliography to such existing databanks? The proposed bibliography would not cover the same topic range as these, though I envision some overlap. Don't you have to pay a subscription fee to access Botanical Abstracts? Ours should be free. Please -- this is still just a bundle of ideas. No need to attack them yet! Jane McGary From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Oct 27 20:01:50 2003 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Lilium seeds Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:01:47 -0800 > >If your seeds are entirely transparent flakes, they are not >viable seeds. > I remember a message from a Lily Society member - head of the seed exchange, I think. He would divert any donated seeds lacking embryos from the seed exchange, but would toss them all in a certain spot in his garden. A surprising number of them germinated. I wouldn't bother trying to grow such seeds unless they were of overwhelming rarity. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From dells@voicenet.com Tue Oct 28 07:04:22 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 47 closed Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 07:04:13 -0500 Dear All, All items are claimed. I'll let you know when packages go out. Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From africanbulbs@haznet.co.za Tue Oct 28 14:02:40 2003 Message-Id: <008101c39d87$9f072fe0$a56927c4@ecuser62> From: "Cameron McMaster" Subject: Watsonia Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:54:30 +0200 >My watsonia did not bloom this year at all here on the Oregon coast. >It has bloomed every year up to now. >There was quite a bit of foliage so it was not dead. >Does it stop blooming if it gets too crowded? >It is not a real big clump. Just about 8 inches across. Sam Watsonia corms seem to flower better if they are lifted and split up every second or third year, especially those that multiply rapidly like the evergreen W. pillansii. This species is from summer rainfall areas and is best divided in late winter. But the winter rainfall species that go dormant in summer should be divided in late summer/early autumn. The fresh soil probably also promotes better flowering. And of course, they like lots of sun - they probably won't flower at all in the shade. Rhoda McMaster African Bulbs Napier, Western Cape Mediterranean climate with some summer rain From angelopalm69@inwind.it Tue Oct 28 09:27:59 2003 Message-Id: <002601c39d5f$5bdbeee0$d9b0623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Bulbs that can be converted to another cycle--TOW Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:25:03 +0100 Hi all, this is an interesting topic for me. First of all, I would say that I don't try to convert any plant to an opposite cycle, but they do themselves ! Also, with one exception, all these are South African plants. So, Zanthedeschia aethiopica and Freesia alba, old garden plants in south of Italy, are winter growing here and I suppose the same in southern California. They have sprouted from a while and will be in flower from late January to March, accoridng on the winter temperatures. Crinum moorei is summer dormant for me, loosing almost all leaves in June-July. Now they are pushing a flush of leaves (in the manner of cycas) and in winter they have a full crown of leaves. Flowering is in late August. I grow several other Crinum species and hybrids, but they seems to grow normally, instead. However, they are young offsets/seedlings, not flowering size yet. Hippeastrum aulicum is summer dormant too. It looses all leaves in June and they come up again in late September. Now the tip of the flower stalks are visible sideway and they will flower at Christmas time every year. My Cyrtanthus sanguineus go dormant in summer, but flower in August, sending a couple of leaves together with the stalks. They also send out more leaves in autumn, winter and sping, when they like. However, this is the only reliable Cyrtanthus species I am able to grow. Finally, I have several Boophone disticha seedlings 3 yrs old which are growing actively now, having been dormant in summer, even in spite of waterings. Also, I am growing Hieronymiella aurea from seed and they appeared very late this summer, having been green all the past winter and now they are doing the same again, as they were shifting to a winter growing cycle. that's my 2 cent Angelo From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Oct 28 18:11:17 2003 Message-Id: <3F9EF793.1000306@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Bulbs that can be converted to another cycle--TOW Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:11:15 -0500 Angelo; I have three groups of boophone disticha seedlings to discuss. The first I grew from Silverhill Seeds and all have been grown on northern hemisphere schedule. They start growth in early spring while still indoors. I received one from Telos that was already on the Northern hemisphere schedule and the last are three bulbs I recently received from Croft Nursery as part of a PBS group order. They came into growth soon after I received them and grew on very well. Not as lush as the seedling raised ones but put up three to four sets of leaves. I water them very sparsely during the winter sometimes just dripping a couple of drops of water around the inside rim of the pot. They sit on a pebble tray under HID lights. Of the three eucomis (montana, pole-evansii and comosa) only two started to grow and the comosa has yet to make an appearance above the surface of the pot. Arnold From msittner@mcn.org Tue Oct 28 19:24:26 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031028161039.00ce0e10@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Bulbs that can be converted to another cycle--TOW Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:23:00 -0800 Dear Angelo, Zantedeschia aethiopica in spite of its name is one of the two winter rainfall species. We saw it blooming a lot in the winter on our trips to South Africa so it is not turned around for you, but growing as it normally does. It has naturalized in Northern California, especially in spots that stay wet for a long time. Freesia alba has a wide distribution including winter rainfall areas and year round rainfall areas so it isn't on an opposite cycle necessarily either. The Boophone is an interesting one because some varieties of it grow in winter and some in summer. What I am wondering is if I can make the one I have that came from Rhoda in the Southern Hemisphere that was a summer growing one become a winter growing one. As we continue to have really warm temperatures here, it wouldn't recognize that it is fall. The Haemanthus montanus I got from Rhoda did not start to leaf out until this week even though I watered it when I planted it when I got it early summer and occasionally there after. Now I think that was very considerate of it as it seems to be emerging when it should, having experienced a longer than usual dormancy. Has anyone gotten Leucocoryne from Brent and Becky and gotten it to stay summer growers? I have wondered if they like so many other things sold at the wrong time of the year would revert to a winter growing schedule. Or would it be one of those that you could dry out and store warm until you wanted to plant them? So Lisa Flaum, are you going to tell us what you have succeeded growing as summer growers that normally are winter growers? Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Tue Oct 28 22:05:57 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031028185433.00ceeb40@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Improvements Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:04:25 -0800 Dear All, I'd like to announce that Mark Wilcox has agreed to help fine tune our PBS wiki when he has time. He has already created a new look for the Photographs and Information page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/PhotographsAndInformation He has discovered a way to make the listings of genera into a table so that the page loads quicker and it is easier to find what you might be looking for. It is a big improvement! It means that when a new genus page is added there are a few extra steps. It isn't really hard once you get the hang of it I have found, but it does take a bit longer. We have tried to write clear instructions about how to do it, but if any of you want to add a page and get stuck one of us will help you: Mark McDonough (Antennaria at aol.com), Mark Wilcox (marque219 at yahoo.com) or myself. I will update the FAQ soon to include some of the tricks Mark W. has been discovering. We appreciate his help. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) From samclan@redshift.com Tue Oct 28 23:32:41 2003 Message-Id: <3F9F42F6.5060801@redshift.com> From: Shirley Meneice Subject: Watsonia Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:32:54 -0800 On the central coast of Cal. (Monterey Bay), I have Watsonia blooming in a raised bed with afternoon sun. They are terribly overcrowded--I should be ashamed of myself for not having separated them a year or two ago. They bloom like crazy each year. These are white, growing in USDA Zone 9, with little water or special care. My clump is about 3'x 5' across. Shirley Meneice Cameron McMaster wrote: >>My watsonia did not bloom this year at all here on the Oregon coast. >>It has bloomed every year up to now. >>There was quite a bit of foliage so it was not dead. >>Does it stop blooming if it gets too crowded? >>It is not a real big clump. Just about 8 inches across. > > > Sam > Watsonia corms seem to flower better if they are lifted and split up every second or third year, especially those that multiply rapidly like the evergreen W. pillansii. This species is from summer rainfall areas and is best divided in late winter. But the winter rainfall species that go dormant in summer should be divided in late summer/early autumn. The fresh soil probably also promotes better flowering. And of course, they like lots of sun - they probably won't flower at all in the shade. > > Rhoda McMaster > African Bulbs > Napier, Western Cape > Mediterranean climate with some summer rain > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > . > From samclan@redshift.com Tue Oct 28 23:42:16 2003 Message-Id: <3F9F4536.1080508@redshift.com> From: Shirley Meneice Subject: Bulbs that can be converted to another cycle--TOW Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:42:30 -0800 This will probably be of no interest to the group, but I have found that growing things from Rachel's seed from South Africa, means that no conversion is necessary. They don't know they are in a different hemisphere, so planted at the beginning of growth in the northern hemisphere suits them fine and they perform on my time schedule without any need to be convewrted. Shirley Meneice > Dear All, > > The topic for this week is bulbs that can be converted to another cycle. > I couldn't quite figure out how to phrase this so it would be shorter > and clearer. I am hoping that all of you will share your experiences > trying to grow bulbs a different way than the would be found in nature. > Have any of you in cold climates been able to grow tender bulbs in the > summer that would not survive your climates otherwise? Have any of you > with harsh hot summers been able to grow plants that would like it > cooler at another time, say spring? I know that Lisa Flaum has been > trying to turn winter growers into summer growers and I hope she will > share how it is going. Some plants must respond to light and temperature > one would think. > > A number of years ago a man from Seattle told that he could grow > Ferraria in summer there and found it just wasn't happy in his long wet > cool winter, but grew quite happily in his cool dryer summers when there > was more light. I am wondering what other things could be treated this way. > > Andrew Wilson sent me a piece of a Pelargonium. I'm not sure if is one > that counts as a geophyte, but he was definitely able to send this piece > to me that looked like a dry stick. Although it had gone dormant for the > summer already, when I watered it, it sprung to life and even starting > blooming late summer. > > A friend told me of buying Sandersonia at the local farmer's market as a > late harvest flower in fall. This one obviously can be grown at > different times of the year. > > Slightly related to this, has anyone found that when they buy a bulb > from another hemisphere that starts to grow at the wrong time that they > can keep it growing at this time. I got two bulbs of Boophone from Rhoda > and Cameron and I am wondering if I can keep them winter growing. > > No one responded about Peter's Daubenya. Have others found that Daubenya > aurea is fall blooming for them instead of spring? > > So please share your experiences everyone. I know there are some people > really eager to hear about this. > > Mary Sue > > > PBS List Administrator, Wiki Worker, TOW Coordinator (Whew!) > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > . > From marque219@yahoo.com Wed Oct 29 06:47:12 2003 Message-Id: <20031029114710.47417.qmail@web60004.mail.yahoo.com> From: Mark Wilcox Subject: Bulbs that can be converted to another cycle--TOW Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 03:47:10 -0800 (PST) Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Has anyone gotten Leucocoryne from Brent and Becky and gotten it to stay > summer growers? I tried them a few years ago. They bloomed magnificently in spring the first year. Since then they've put up a little foliage in fall. I can't decide if they're digging down to a deeper level or dwindling. In any case, I've seen no sign of bloom since the first year, and the foliage remains on a winter cycle. It burns off during the freezing winter and reappears in spring. In fact, it may be among last winter's casualties. I'll be interested to see if it emerges this time around. Mark Wilcox Washington, DC, zone 7 From jglatt@ptd.net Wed Oct 29 06:53:39 2003 Message-Id: <000a01c39e13$4fbc17c0$b221bacc@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: manuscript on its way Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:53:46 -0500 FedEx came by yesterday and picked up the manuscript (well, two diskettes) and photos for "Choosing and Using Bulbs." So now I get a break before whomever Timber Press assigns as an editor starts pestering me with questions. I just wanted to say "Thank you very much" to everyone here - those of you who patiently responded to my questions, offered observations on your own gardens, and everyone whose questions, comments, and answers on the forum confirmed my impression that of course the whole world loves bulbs. Judy in New Jersey where ark building should be my next project. We got 3.5 inches of rain from Sunday night through Monday, and heavy rain again last night. A) It should have gone to southern California to quench the fires and B) thank goodness is not December - 3.5 inches of rain equals 35 inches of snow. From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Wed Oct 29 12:09:30 2003 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: OT: bulb auction & dinner Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:08:58 -0800 Hi all, I have moved the auction and dinner forward to Saturday November 22. Charles Hardman had a problem come up with Nov 15 and Patty couldn't come then either. Will you all please email me PRIVATELY to: CathyCraigEA@hotmail.com to let me know if you plan on attending? Customary time about 4pm-9pm. I may decide not to do the usual pot luck but to have this more-or-less catered; however I may ask a few of you to bring something specific. Thanks all!! Cathy Craig EA your Essential Advisor From jamievande@freenet.de Wed Oct 29 12:14:16 2003 Message-Id: <002a01c39e40$0fdc57a0$6402a8c0@celeron> From: "Jamie" Subject: manuscript on its way Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:14:00 +0100 Hey Judy, congratulations! Hope you opened a bottle of proper champers to celebrate! Can't wait to see it in print. Ciao, Jamie V Cologne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Glattstein" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 12:53 PM Subject: [pbs] manuscript on its way > FedEx came by yesterday and picked up the manuscript (well, two diskettes) > and photos for "Choosing and Using Bulbs." So now I get a break before > whomever Timber Press assigns as an editor starts pestering me with > questions. I just wanted to say "Thank you very much" to everyone here - > those of you who patiently responded to my questions, offered observations > on your own gardens, and everyone whose questions, comments, and answers on > the forum confirmed my impression that of course the whole world loves > bulbs. > > Judy in New Jersey where ark building should be my next project. We got > 3.5 inches of rain from Sunday night through Monday, and heavy rain again > last night. A) It should have gone to southern California to quench the > fires and B) thank goodness is not December - 3.5 inches of rain equals 35 > inches of snow. > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From msittner@mcn.org Wed Oct 29 12:23:05 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031029091535.00dd43b0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Fires in California Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:21:34 -0800 Hi, I keep looking at the pictures of the fires and the maps and trying to figure out which members of our group might be in danger of losing their homes. Does anyone have any news of Marguerite English? She lives east of San Diego in the mountains and that looks like one of the bad areas. I tried calling her and her daughter for news since Cathy said if she had to leave she'd probably go to her daughter's house. I didn't expect to get through, but thought there was nothing to lose. All I got was a busy signal. How are all of you coping in southern California? Mary Sue From hkoopowi@uci.edu Wed Oct 29 12:39:42 2003 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20031029093912.0195b740@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: OT: bulb auction & dinner Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:39:35 -0800 Cathy: Steve Hampson will accompany us. Harold At 09:08 AM 10/29/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I have moved the auction and dinner forward to Saturday November 22. >Charles Hardman had a problem come up with Nov 15 and Patty couldn't come >then either. > >Will you all please email me PRIVATELY to: CathyCraigEA@hotmail.com to let >me know if you plan on attending? Customary time about 4pm-9pm. I may >decide not to do the usual pot luck but to have this more-or-less catered; >however I may ask a few of you to bring something specific. Thanks all!! > >Cathy Craig EA >your Essential Advisor >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Prof. Harold Koopowitz Ecology and Evolutionary Biology University of California, Irvine, CA 92697 From Pat.Colville@jameshardie.com Wed Oct 29 12:41:32 2003 Message-Id: From: "Pat Colville" Subject: Fires in California Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:41:03 -0800 The fires are very near where I work in Fontana. There have been periodic closings of main roads like the 15 freeway, the main pass through the mountains, which means those who live north of the mountains may not be able to get to work or may not be able to get home. Three of the people I work with have been evacuated since Saturday and the fires are still burning in the vicinity of their homes. The "Santa Ana" winds have died down today and that helps some but there is way too much combustible material because of several years of drought and bark beetle killed trees. The air is full of smoke. There are no fires near Pasadena where I live but they did arrest someone who was trying to start one. We now have copycat arsonists to contend with. Patty Colville -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Mary Sue Ittner Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 9:22 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Fires in California Hi, I keep looking at the pictures of the fires and the maps and trying to figure out which members of our group might be in danger of losing their homes. Does anyone have any news of Marguerite English? She lives east of San Diego in the mountains and that looks like one of the bad areas. I tried calling her and her daughter for news since Cathy said if she had to leave she'd probably go to her daughter's house. I didn't expect to get through, but thought there was nothing to lose. All I got was a busy signal. How are all of you coping in southern California? Mary Sue _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Wed Oct 29 13:00:20 2003 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: Marguerite Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:59:56 -0800 I have not been able to contact Mee. I just called her again about 10 minutes ago. I have been getting what used to be call a trunk line busy signal (fast busy signal). Considering how close the fires are to Descanso, the phone lines are likely fried to a crisp. She has to have at least 4 foster daughters. I think most of them live pretty close by to Descanso. One of them must be in a non-fire-threatened area. I don't have their numbers. Knowing them, most probably live in out-of-the-way places such as Mee favors so it wouldn't surprise me if most of the phones were down in those areas too. Sunday we had a fire just up and across a couple streets from us. Burned about half the hillside in two hours. I am keeping the cat carriers out in the living room until I am sure all the fires are under control. And Dirt Bag has to stay inside. He is not happy, but is cooperating. Today is the first day we have not had a smoke-filled sky - the winds here changed last night and the air here in San Clemente is clear...I even saw some clouds very early this morning. Weather forecast is for fog (had that, now dispersed) and possible drizzle. Good news. Many of the fires have about burned themselves out of fuel, the air is now moist, Santa Ana winds have died down, fires are traveling much more slowly. Many members live in the Pasadena area. The smoke is probably terrible, but I don't think that L.A. (Robert Parker) or the greater Pasadena or Hollywood area are actually threatened by fire (Pat Colville, Charles Hardman, Lee Poulsen, John Ingram, Doug Westfall (Long Beach)... I don't have Andrew Wilson's number here - he lives in No San Diego near Encinitas. There was a fire there yesterday, but I think it was confined to along the ocean side of the #5 Fwy (started by some car dragging something and making sparks). Cathy Craig EA > I keep looking at the pictures of the fires and the maps and trying to > figure out which members of our group might be in danger of losing their > homes. Does anyone have any news of Marguerite English? She lives east of > San Diego in the mountains and that looks like one of the bad areas. I > tried calling her and her daughter for news since Cathy said if she had to > leave she'd probably go to her daughter's house. I didn't expect to get > through, but thought there was nothing to lose. All I got was a busy signal. > > How are all of you coping in southern California? > > Mary Sue From eagle85@flash.net Wed Oct 29 15:01:42 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: So Cal fires Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:50:44 -0800 Mary Sue IttnerDoug Westfall msittner@mcn.org1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA Dear All Thank God, Long Beach is a long way from the fires. Our yard, deck, and pool ARE covered with soot and ash. That is not so bad as what those in the path of the fire are experiencing. Our daughter and son-in-law had fire just 2 blocks from their front door before the fire was knocked down. About 350 homes were distroyed near them. Cathy mentioned Charles Hardman - He is south of the 210 Fwy and just east of the 605 Fwy. The fire was threatning, but I think that he was below the actual fire. Thanks for the concerns of all. This is one of the worst disasters ever to hit So. California. It exceeds the earth quakes. Doug Westfall Long Beach From jennifer.hildebrand@att.net Wed Oct 29 15:40:13 2003 Message-Id: <102920032040.5655.2a99@att.net> From: jennifer.hildebrand@att.net Subject: Fires in California Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 20:40:08 +0000 Hi all, Mee and I IMd a little on Sunday - she had her things ready to evacuate. I've since seen Descanso listed as mandatory evac, so I'm sure she's gone by now. Fingers are crossed for her, as well as for everyone else in an area threatened by the fires. My cousin has been evacuated from Running Springs (San Bernardino mountains) and my aunt from her home near Julian (San Diego), and the safety of their homes is at present unclear... Best of luck to all. Jennifer From Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com Wed Oct 29 18:40:09 2003 Message-Id: From: Nan Sterman Subject: Fires in San Diego and nearby Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:40:06 -0800 So many people have been asking about the fires in this region that I figured it was time for a report. Fortunately, my family and home are fine though we were not sure on Sunday and early Monday that that would continue to be the case. We were packed and ready to evacuate by midday Sunday, thanks to a neighbor who is a fire chief and whose wife keeps us all apprised. My community in eastern Encinitas (about 3 miles from the coast) narrowly escaped a disastrous fire in 1996 (only four homes were lost) so we keep a close eye when fires threaten us. Early Sunday morning, there were banks of smoke coming from, at one count, 8 fires in San Diego County, all in the eastern part of the county but going nearly from the northern border all the way down to the border with Mexico. The southernmost fire did cross the border. We were in the middle of one of our occasional Santa Ana winds which blows from the deserts in the east towards the west (normal airflow is from the ocean on the west, towards the east and brings us our infamous marine layer). Because they are from the deserts, Santa Anas are very hot, very dry winds. Lips chap, skin cracks and hair is a joke during a Santa Ana. At the same time, we live in a fire habitat. Our native habitats are fire adapted and fires are part of the natural cycle, devouring biomass on a periodic basis and causing f dormant seeds to sprout and rejuvenate the chaparral. As humans invade the native habitat, we bring with fire suppression tactics so that the native habitats burn very infrequently, but still accumulate biomass that dies on a regular basis. In wetter environments, the biomass would become a nice, thick, spongy mulch. Under such dry conditions, however, what dies becomes a thin layer of paper-dry carbon-based material. That translates to enormous amounts of fuel just waiting around for an errant cigarette, dragging tailpipe (sparks) ,etc. The largest and most deadly fire at the moment, the Cedar fire, was caused by a lost hunter who lit a signal fire so his buddy could find him. He might regret that decision for the rest of his life. Another problem is that our region was planted with combustible eucalyptus trees in the early 1900s. Eucalyptus did so well that they spread throughout the area. In a fire, they go up like matchsticks. In more mountainous areas, native pines have been plagued by pine bark beetle. The number of dead and near dead pines is tremendous, and they too are more fire prone than healthy pines would be. So the fires started to spread with the wind and the huge fuel load. They looked to be making a clean sweep, north to south, east to west. One fear was that they would all merge. That fear still exists. Under normal circumstances, San Diego has a fairly good fire fighting force. However, many of our fire fighters were deployed to San Bernardino to the north and other areas where fires started burning earlier last week. When the fires hit here, we were operating with a reduced crew. There were too few of them to try containing the fires - only to save people and buildings. Reinforcements from elsewhere didn't arrive until late on Tuesday, after more than 1100 homes had burned, a dozen people died and hundreds of thousands of acres were destroyed. Schools are closed, most nonessential businesses were closed until today in the City of San Diego and coastal communities. Yesterday, the sky was the most awful shade of orange tinged putty, thick and smoky. Ashes rained down like big snowflakes. It was impossible to breathe. Today, the winds have shifted and are blowing from west to east (and driving the blaze that directoin) so we have a bit of blue sky, but I suspect that the clearer skies are still filled with micro contaminants -- my chest aches. Communities in the mountains to the east of us are meanwhile being decimated. You might hear people talk about the rural towns of Cuyamaca, Julian, Pine HIlls, Alpine, Descanso... these communities are all taking it very hard. The community of Cuyamaca is virtually gone. This is after homes were destroyed in rural Valley Center (to the north) and in suburban Scripps Ranch, Tierra Santa and San Carlos (central). The Otay fire in the south seems to have caused only minimal loss of property. . Up towards the north in Riverside County, the mountain resort of Big Bear was evacuated yesterday and pretty hard hit by that fire. It is now moving towards Lake ARrowhead which is another mountain resort in the area. Further north in Ventura county, the fire in Simi Valley is still burning. That's all for now Nan -- +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Nan Sterman Plant Soup (TM) PO Box 231034 Encinitas, CA 92023 760.634.2902 (voice) Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com 760.634.2957 (fax) +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= From Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com Wed Oct 29 23:59:03 2003 Message-Id: From: Nan Sterman Subject: Correction to Fires in San Diego and nearby Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 20:59:00 -0800 Sorry, Big Bear and Lake Arrowhead are in San Bernardino County, not Riverside County Up towards the north in Riverside County, the mountain resort of Big Bear was evacuated yesterday and pretty hard hit by that fire. It is now moving towards Lake ARrowhead which is another mountain resort in the area. Further north in Ventura county, the fire in Simi Valley is still burning. That's all for now Nan -- +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Nan Sterman Plant Soup (TM) PO Box 231034 Encinitas, CA 92023 760.634.2902 (voice) Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com 760.634.2957 (fax) +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= From Theladygardens@aol.com Thu Oct 30 02:33:41 2003 Message-Id: <1db.1361e26a.2cd218cf@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: So Calif. Fires Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 02:33:35 EST Big Bear has not burned. The fire is headed that way and close. They did evacuate yesterday. My daughter and grandson live there and we were on the phone all day. They were packing up, loading the car, video taping the contents of the house, moving the 2 1/2 cords of split firewood away from the house and hosing it down. Hosing down the house. They were instructed to leave the hose attached and stretched down the driveway to the street, leave a ladder beside the front of the house going to the roof and leave the lights on. They left before 2 pm and got into LA at 8 pm. They were headed to a friends house off the 210. She drives that route every other week and nothing looked familiar, the sky was so black, so much ash that lights she was used to seeing weren't visible. My son and his wife kept calling and telling her just to come on to Santa Barbara. As she got to her turnoff in LA she was concerned about the air quality, both she and her son are susceptible to Asthma. And she did not want to be trapped in LA if they were to close the 5 (the route to Mom's). So she did continue on into Santa Barbara. My son called and said he is so relieved because they can take care of them and not worry about them. My phone has rang constantly all day yesterday and today, her mother-in-law on the East coast, relatives and friends from all over the US and Calif. calling to check on their safety and whereabouts. I have another daughter in San Clemente also susceptible to Asthma. She lives just 2 blocks off the ocean and is fine. This has been very traumatic for the daughter who had to evacuate her home. She loves her home, has built quite a nice life for them in Big Bear. She is still concerned they may lose their home and life as they know it. It was very stressful hurrying and trying to pack the things that were important. She said she found herself getting their ski passes and ski equipment out when she realized if the house burned they wouldn't be coming back to ski and wouldn't need them, if it didn't burn they would be there when they got to come home. Watching the news is stressful as she recognizes other mountain neighborhoods, some homes etc. Needless to say we are praying the fires stop and no one else loses their lives or homes. Carolyn in Los Gatos, northern CA From mark@marksgardenplants.com Thu Oct 30 09:17:14 2003 Message-Id: <009001c39ef0$8686b2a0$42559851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: colchicum Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:17:13 -0000 hi all Last week when I posted about my Colchicum images someone commented that one may be wrong ie C atticum may be C neopolitan or something like that. Can you tell me more please. Mark N Ireland Zone 8 Galanthus reginae-olgae is just above ground and G peshmenii (thats is what it was bough as) is in full flower From meenglis@cts.com Thu Oct 30 10:40:05 2003 Message-Id: <200310301540.h9UFe3876830@joker.cts.com> From: "meenglis@cts.com" Subject: Fires in California Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:40:03 -0800 (PST) Dearall. I am safe amd with all of my daughters and son-in-law. We evacuated Sunday night and have stayed together. We feel blessed to have been with each other all the way. We first went to Descanso community and stayed with my foster-daughter. At 3 am the sheriff came through, calling for evacuation, saying 'the fire is immenent.' We left. again in caravan with the entire family, going to the Red Cross shelter east toward the desert. We stayed for two days, anxiously asking anyone from the area for news, and it sounded bleak about the condition of our little valley. Tuesday morning. a couple of neighbors got in. At that time, the fire had capriciously taken 5 houses in the valley, but mine was safe. My daughter's building is standing but no one went close and there may be damage inside. My oldest daughter's house a few miles away was also safe at that time. Tuesday, my youngest daughter came to the evac center and convinced us to go to her house in University Town Center (near the coast.) We are safe and together. We have packed 5 adults, 4 dogs, 3 cats and 8 birds into her two bedroom condo! This morning, we are going to check on the properties and confirm that the fire didn't double back on us. We are prepared for property loss if that has happened, but are grateful that all of us are safe. Needless to say, the newsletter will be late this fall (G!), but I took my computer, so it is ready as soon as I can set up again and have electricity. This modern life surely makes it easier to gather one's pictures and important documents! The greenhouse roof was blowing in the wind, so I may have a few bulb losses, but we'll see what has happened soon. I am using my daughter's computer, so will check my e-mail for a couple of days here before I go home. Thanking God and the fire people! Marguerite From mark@marksgardenplants.com Thu Oct 30 12:18:54 2003 Message-Id: <013e01c39f09$e3bea4f0$42559851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: tulip tschimghanica Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:18:27 -0000 hi all Does anyone have any experience with Tulipa tschimghanica. I just bought some on impulse and I suppose I should have got info on their requirements first. Mark N Ireland zone 8 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Oct 30 13:24:35 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031030102332.00ba62d8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: colchicum Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:24:28 -0800 I think I was the one who wrote that Mark's COlchicum atticum resembled my C. neapolitanum, but I also asked him how big it was, and when he replied, I realized that it was not C. neapolitanum, which is much smaller. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon At 02:17 PM 10/30/2003 +0000, you wrote: >hi all > >Last week when I posted about my Colchicum images someone commented that one >may be wrong ie C atticum may be C neopolitan or something like that. Can >you tell me more please. > >Mark >N Ireland >Zone 8 >Galanthus reginae-olgae is just above ground and G peshmenii (thats is what >it was bough as) is in full flower > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From franc@oregonfast.net Thu Oct 30 13:40:00 2003 Message-Id: <3FA15B3B.3000006@oregonfast.net> From: Sam Franc Subject: WATSONIA Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:40:59 -0800 Thank you to all that answered my plea. We live in a forest where the trees around us are 200 feet tall so the sun doea not hit the ground till about 10 am and the western trees start to shade at about 4 pm. I hope that is not too shady for them. I will separate them before next spring. I suppose i should wait till the foliage dies back. I have had to relearn horticulture since we moved here from Contra Costa County. The same rules do not apply here as there. I can not grow a lot of thing I brought along as there is not enough heat here for them, even though the frost free days are about the same here. There also is a lot more rain here, too. Sam From mark@marksgardenplants.com Thu Oct 30 14:05:26 2003 Message-Id: <015b01c39f18$ca3c0b30$42559851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: colchicum Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:05:30 -0000 I though it was you but couldnt remember. Where did you get yours? I'm trying to build a collection of the small ones to put into troughs. Mark N Ireland ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane McGary" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] colchicum > I think I was the one who wrote that Mark's COlchicum atticum resembled my > C. neapolitanum, but I also asked him how big it was, and when he replied, > I realized that it was not C. neapolitanum, which is much smaller. > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon > > At 02:17 PM 10/30/2003 +0000, you wrote: > >hi all > > > >Last week when I posted about my Colchicum images someone commented that one > >may be wrong ie C atticum may be C neopolitan or something like that. Can > >you tell me more please. > > > >Mark > >N Ireland > >Zone 8 > >Galanthus reginae-olgae is just above ground and G peshmenii (thats is what > >it was bough as) is in full flower > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >pbs mailing list > >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From totototo@mail.pacificcoast.net Mon Oct 27 16:39:52 2003 Message-Id: <200310272139.h9RLdlwc004277@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Lilium seeds Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:41:55 -800 On 26 Oct 03 at 11:20, John Ingram wrote: > I had a L. regal alba that produced some seeds this year all on > their own. My question is, are they supposed to be clear and no > coloration of an embryo? Are are my seeds just duds? If not, what do > I do with them now? Liliaceous seeds -- including tulips, fritillaries, lilies, and their ilk -- in transmitted light show a darkened area (the endosperm) in the middle plus a dormant embryo, a small elongated affair attached to the hilum. The embryo noticeably swells if you soak the seed in water for about 48 hours. If your seeds are entirely transparent flakes, they are not viable seeds. Bulb lovers who cannot make sense of my first paragraph would do well to go look at such seeds over on a light table until they get the hang of this. You needn't use the seed of some rarity: Fritillaria meleagris will do quite nicely. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada "To co-work is human, to cow-ork, bovine." From totototo@mail.pacificcoast.net Mon Oct 27 16:39:54 2003 Message-Id: <200310272139.h9RLdlwe004277@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Bibliography project Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:41:56 -800 On 27 Oct 03 at 8:25, Boyce Tankersley wrote: > What software application the database uses is less important than > it being a relational database. The proper form of a relational database for a bibliography is a very difficult problem to solve. The data does not lend itself readily or obviously to the relational model. Rather than try to devise a home-brew solution, those interested are well advised to conduct a careful and thorough literature search and determine what solutions have been devised by more experienced people. If the documents were all available in digital form, then a googloid search engine would be considerably more useful than a relational database, I think. But as the premise is not true, this conclusion is not useful. It also seems to me (if I may speak with full candor) that this plan for a bibliography has gone off somewhat half-cocked. Even more important than the database design is a specification of the intended uses of the system: precisely what kinds of questions and queries is it intended to answer and what kinds is it NOT intended to answer. Also more important than the database design per se is some kind of realistic planning around the issues of (1) how complete is this bibliography to be? (2) who is going to provide the data? and (3) who is going to exercise data quality control? (4) in the long term, how are you going to ensure continuity of support and function? The bulb literature is not static and any such compilation will require ongoing work to keep it current. A database (sensu latu) where everyman and his sister can input data is only as good as the input of the most careless keyboarder. It remains a fact of human nature that lots of people are notably careless in such matters. There's no point in everyone running off half-cocked until these issues are sorted out. I'm sure we've all run across web sites that were started with best intentions but were left half-constructed when the originator ran out of steam. No point adding another to this melancholy list. It is also worthwhile remembering that such indexes as Botanical Abstracts exist, and no doubt some institutions (the RHS and Kew, in particular) may have in-house indexes. What is the relationship of the proposed bibliography to such existing databanks? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada "To co-work is human, to cow-ork, bovine." From Marque219@Yahoo.com Thu Oct 30 16:45:19 2003 Message-Id: From: Mark Wilcox Subject: Pictures on the Wiki Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:45:12 -0500 Dear all, I have just added a couple shots of Sternbergia sicula to the page for that Genus. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Sternbergia Mark Wilcox Washington, DC From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Oct 30 19:25:11 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031030162228.00ba5fc0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: colchicum Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:25:06 -0800 Mark Smyth asked me about colchicums, >I though it was you but couldnt remember. Where did you get yours? I'm >trying to build a collection of the small ones to put into troughs. I bought a few of the small species from nurseries such as Potterton's and Monocot in ENgland, and from Antoine Hoog in the Netherlands. I think Paul Christian has them sometimes, too. Many of them, however, I grew from seed, either from exchanges or purchased from Jim and Jenny Archibald. It takes the smaller species about 3 to 4 years to flower from seed, and germination can be delayed and erratic. I hope to write an article in the Rock Garden Quarterly about trough-sized colchicums, but I cannot get current information on the nomenclature, which as I understand it is very much in flux at present. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From msittner@mcn.org Thu Oct 30 19:49:03 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031030160343.00b4ac90@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: In memory of Stan Farwig Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:47:06 -0800 Dear All, This week I received my copy of Mariposa, the newsletter of the Calochortus Society. In it I read that Stan Farwig had died August 6th at the age of 74. I have written about Stan before. He and his late partner, Vic Girard, grew bulbs for a number of years in their back yard in Concord, California. They were particularly interested in Calochortus and bulbs of the southern hemisphere. They traveled, gathered seeds, studied what others had written, and learned from their own experience. Both gave lectures and I was fortunate to hear them both and their enthusiasm and splendid photographs were instrumental in igniting a passion in me for bulbs. It saddened me to learn that in 1990 when we had extremely cold weather in California they had lost most of their "tender" bulb collection (Calochortus survived). They never had the heart to start over after that as so much of their collection had been grown from seed. When I heard Stan talk at a Symposium in Berkeley in September 1989 sponsored by the Friends of the University of California Botanical Garden, he passed out a hand out entitled, "A Non-Concise Guide to the Cultivation of Bulbs." My copy is well worn as I have reread it so many times. I have also shared it with others after Stan gave me permission to do that. He was always willing to provide information and encouragement. In that way he is very much like Gordon Summerfield who so kindly shared his recent talk with this group. It occurred to me that I could share this wisdom of Stan's with everyone by adding his words to the wiki. I think he would have liked that. So I scanned in my worn paper and hopefully have corrected all the words that the software couldn't quite figure out. If you see any glaring mistakes (I didn't change any of his words or punctuation) let me know. I think that this paper complements Gordon's words and also is very relevant to our current topic of the week and to our recent posts about Daubenya as well. Perhaps it speaks to me especially as I am always curious, always full of questions and I can relate very much to his words in the beginning, "The more I grow, the less I know." As the title suggests, this is not a quick read, but a fascinating one and I think well worth the time for anyone who is really interested in growing bulbs. I suggest you print it out as you too may want to read it again some day. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Farwig.htm Mary Sue From hkoopowi@uci.edu Thu Oct 30 20:46:40 2003 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20031030174556.01a25400@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: In memory of Stan Farwig Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:46:30 -0800 Mary Sue: Dont you think it should be republished in Bulbs? Harold At 04:47 PM 10/30/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Dear All, > >This week I received my copy of Mariposa, the newsletter of the >Calochortus Society. In it I read that Stan Farwig had died August 6th at >the age of 74. I have written about Stan before. He and his late partner, >Vic Girard, grew bulbs for a number of years in their back yard in >Concord, California. They were particularly interested in Calochortus and >bulbs of the southern hemisphere. They traveled, gathered seeds, studied >what others had written, and learned from their own experience. Both gave >lectures and I was fortunate to hear them both and their enthusiasm and >splendid photographs were instrumental in igniting a passion in me for >bulbs. It saddened me to learn that in 1990 when we had extremely cold >weather in California they had lost most of their "tender" bulb collection >(Calochortus survived). They never had the heart to start over after that >as so much of their collection had been grown from seed. > >When I heard Stan talk at a Symposium in Berkeley in September 1989 >sponsored by the Friends of the University of California Botanical Garden, >he passed out a hand out entitled, "A Non-Concise Guide to the Cultivation >of Bulbs." My copy is well worn as I have reread it so many times. I have >also shared it with others after Stan gave me permission to do that. He >was always willing to provide information and encouragement. In that way >he is very much like Gordon Summerfield who so kindly shared his recent >talk with this group. It occurred to me that I could share this wisdom of >Stan's with everyone by adding his words to the wiki. I think he would >have liked that. So I scanned in my worn paper and hopefully have >corrected all the words that the software couldn't quite figure out. If >you see any glaring mistakes (I didn't change any of his words or >punctuation) let me know. > >I think that this paper complements Gordon's words and also is very >relevant to our current topic of the week and to our recent posts about >Daubenya as well. Perhaps it speaks to me especially as I am always >curious, always full of questions and I can relate very much to his words >in the beginning, "The more I grow, the less I know." As the title >suggests, this is not a quick read, but a fascinating one and I think well >worth the time for anyone who is really interested in growing bulbs. I >suggest you print it out as you too may want to read it again some day. > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Farwig.htm > >Mary Sue > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Prof. Harold Koopowitz Ecology and Evolutionary Biology University of California, Irvine, CA 92697 From jimreese1@comcast.net Fri Oct 31 00:19:33 2003 Message-Id: From: "Jim Reese" Subject: Fertilizers--TOW Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:59:35 -0600 I use Peters 20-20-20 (with micronutrients) on my Hippeastrums also. I use it on everything growing at my home. Keep Smiling, Jim Reese -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of J.E. Shields Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 12:37 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Fertilizers--TOW Hi all, My basic premise is that facts are vastly superior in practical value to old wifes' tales. So I based my Hippeastrum culture on advice from Len Doran back in the 1970s. Beyond that, I consult the book by de Hertogh and Le Nard, "The Physiology of Flower Bulbs." Len said to avoid bone meal because most of these exotic bulbs are very prone to rotting, and bone meal encourages the growth of fungi and bacteria. Gordon Summerfield is quite right, bone meal is to be avoided if you value your bulbs. Organic potting mixtures and plant foods are to be avoided when growing bulbs like Hippeastrum, since these bulbs are so easily attacked by bacteria or fungi. Organic plant foods require bacterial or fungal digestion to become available to plant roots. Len further recommended that all nitrogen be in the form of nitrate, also to discourage fungal growth. Potassium nitrate, calcium nitrate, and magnesium nitrate would all be quite good sources of nitrogen. De Hertogh and Le Nard make the point that most bulbs need much more nitrogen and potassium than phosphate. Based on this, I suspect that potassium nitrate probably comes very close to being an ideal bulb fertilizer. Summerfield is again right, bulbs need relatively little phosphate. Since I use soilless mixtures based on Promix and amended with sand and granite chick starter grit, I think my bulbs can tolerate the soluble Peters 20-20-20 (with micronutrients) that I currently use. However, I think I could probably shift to something like 20-5-20 and still have healthy, vigorous bulbs. Just my 2 cents' worth. Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) At 08:49 AM 10/20/2003 -0700, Mary Sue wrote: >Dear All, > >The topic of the week this week is fertilizers. In my Gordon Summerfield >summary I included his prescription for fertilizing and am repeating it >here as a starting point: >"He advised avoiding super phosphates which he says many of the bulbs hate >and feels bone meal has no value at all. Also he doesn't think foliar >feeding is helpful. Here is his formula for feeding: >Magnesium sulfate--If leaves are yellow or the tips brown need this >Ammonium sulfate--Provides nitrogen. He says contrary to opinion bulbs >need nitrogen >Potassium sulfate--Helps the new leaves, if they are purplish they need this >Kelp--This helps with formation of the bulb for the next season. He adds 1 >Tablespoon to a gallon of water in the middle of the growing season. >Both he and Henry Pauw add small amounts of these and dissolve them in >water instead of mixing them in the soil." >....... ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Fri Oct 31 02:06:25 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031030222248.00dc8a10@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: In memory of Stan Farwig Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:28:31 -0800 Dear Harold, When I asked Stan if I could copy his article and share it with bulb friends, he said yes. I don't know if it was ever published. But I think the Internet is a fine place for it to be where people can find it and appreciate it. I believe the material in Bulb ends up with an IBS copyright which limits its distribution. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Fri Oct 31 10:37:05 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20031030222853.00dd2d60@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Bulbs that can be converted to another cycle--TOW Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:35:09 -0800 Dear All, I remembered another bulb that a lot of people are growing at a different time than in its native habitat and that is Paramongaia weberbaueri. At least there does seem to be a difference of opinion about when to grow it and maybe even when it grows in its native habitat. According to Alberto: Paramongaia is a genus of amaryllids from the hot dry west facing mountains of Peru and Bolivia. The plant has long erect obtuse leaves of an attractive greyish glaucous color. Flowers are like giant daffodils and are produced with the leaves fully developed. Flower color is a deep buttery yellow. A very dry winter dormancy is required. This plant requires hot, sunny conditions and very rocky/gritty soil. Bulbs must be planted deeply and are medium sized. P. superba is one of Ravenna´s species and is only a good sized variant of weberbaueri. Contrast that with this information from Kevin Preuss: They (referring to both species) "are winter bloomers and growers, as are many Andean geophytes. Cultivate under cool, but not cold conditions, frost-free, dry in the summer. The flowers typically appear in early winter before the leaves (hysteranthus). My experience with this species is limited to vegetative growth, no flowers yet! It does not like frost as a couple leaves a damaged from recent freezing temps (30 F / -1 C)." I bought one of these from Bill Dijk in Pasadena who gets his to bloom in August in New Zealand. Then I returned home and reviewed my saved archives about it I got very confused. Most people who have reported getting it to bloom started it in fall and found it didn't grow very long before it wanted to go dormant. One man from Canada started it in February and had better luck. Paul Chapman from the UK was trying to grow it in summer but had never gotten it to bloom. His had been given him by another well known bulb grower in the UK who grew it on a summer schedule. I had planted mine in sand and was waiting for fall to water it, but when Alberto insisted I'd do better growing it in summer I finally watered it and it immediately sprang into life in August 2002. Although I finally stopped watering in November on Alberto's advice the leaves were slow to die back waiting until almost until April before they were totally gone. This year I replanted it in a much deeper pot than before (late spring) and then watered it. There was no sign of activity. Periodically during summer I'd give it a bit of water. When we went to South Africa I tagged it to receive water only if there was foliage. When I returned from South Africa I saw that it had come up while I was gone, probably sometime in August judging from the leaves which were good sized in September. Did it remember when it grew here last year and want to repeat the pattern? It's a mystery to me. Paul tried to turn his into a winter grower, but it continues to come into growth in summer. Someone else reported that no matter how much water she gave hers, it did not start into growth until the temperatures got cooler in the fall. Now since this one is rather tender, it would seem much better to grow it in summer. One wonders what it is that triggers it into growth. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From hkoopowi@uci.edu Fri Oct 31 15:52:27 2003 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20031031125200.019f68e0@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: In memory of Stan Farwig Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:52:21 -0800 Mary Sue: OK Harold At 10:28 PM 10/30/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Dear Harold, > >When I asked Stan if I could copy his article and share it with bulb >friends, he said yes. I don't know if it was ever published. But I think >the Internet is a fine place for it to be where people can find it and >appreciate it. I believe the material in Bulb ends up with an IBS >copyright which limits its distribution. > >Mary Sue >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Prof. Harold Koopowitz Ecology and Evolutionary Biology University of California, Irvine, CA 92697 From meenglis@cts.com Fri Oct 31 17:01:23 2003 Message-Id: <200310312201.h9VM1MV11303@joker.cts.com> From: "meenglis@cts.com" Subject: colchicum Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:01:22 -0800 (PST) I went out into the mountains yesterday with my family. The flames were nowhere close to my oldest daughter's home and everything there is ok. The flames were within inches of my home which has a partly constructed addition going on. The walls are still plywood. I have no idea why it is still standing, but there it is; safe and sound. Almost everything on the surrounding ten acres was at least flashed over, and a portion of it which we had not cleared burned hot and heavy. My water tank, well house, pressure tank are all gone or messed up. The well pressure tank actually exploded, probably from contained steam. The brass fittings on the other devices melted completely away. The 7000 gallon water tank is completely empty, whether from leakage or evaporation. The propane in my tank is gone, who knows how that leak affected the fire there. All exposed plastic faucets or electric wire cables have oompletely melted. The fire burned around the edges of my wooden planter boxes, and any mulch made from chippings obviously burned really hot, because the ground is white and bare in those places. The fire burned all around the greenhouse, but did not touch the structure. It even melted some pots next to the greenhouse, leaving lumps of soil in the places. It is very dry inside; I will be buying a tank for the back of my SUV tomorrow, so I can haul water up on Sunday when I go back. The roses, trees and shrubs are mostly gone, although some will arise from the ashes. The saddest plant losses are the native Englemann oaks and the manzanita. Both of the oaks look lost, but these plants are surprising. They are still alive at the heart and some will put out new leaves and branches as they have time to recover. The manzanita is definitely a California plant that regrows after burns, and will start again up from the roots. My goats did die in the fire. There were two neighbors who (foolishly) stayed; they have been taking care of other animals, including my middle daughter's goats which did survive. The fire scorched all around the cage, right up to the wire. This family's house was in a quonset hut (made of heavy rounded steel arches.) It is a complete loss. The structure is standing there, but everything else is ash. The trip through the burned areas was completely strange. The chapparal looks like it was bombed. There are scorched sticks and yucca plant remains still standing. Everything else is scorched black on the dirt and covered with blowing ash. Despite all of this, we feel blessed. We have each other, and have stayed together all the way. I am so proud of my daughters and son-in-law, who are absolutely doing the best possible support and caring for each other and for me. We are still feeling shell-shocked, but are glad we went up to see how things are for ourselves. The fire engines were in our valley last night doing mopping up and the fire crews are heroes. Marguerite, who is well-cared for and doing well despite these trials. From mellenbe@pacbell.net Fri Oct 31 21:27:38 2003 Message-Id: <20031101022737.56123.qmail@web80512.mail.yahoo.com> From: marvin ellenbecker Subject: OT: bulb auction & dinner Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:27:37 -0800 (PST) Hi, Cathy, sorry I cannot attend due to another commitment. Thanks. Marvin Cathy Craig wrote:Hi all, I have moved the auction and dinner forward to Saturday November 22. Charles Hardman had a problem come up with Nov 15 and Patty couldn't come then either. Will you all please email me PRIVATELY to: CathyCraigEA@hotmail.com to let me know if you plan on attending? Customary time about 4pm-9pm. I may decide not to do the usual pot luck but to have this more-or-less catered; however I may ask a few of you to bring something specific. Thanks all!! Cathy Craig EA your Essential Advisor _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From mellenbe@pacbell.net Fri Oct 31 21:29:49 2003 Message-Id: <20031101022949.56372.qmail@web80512.mail.yahoo.com> From: marvin ellenbecker Subject: OT: bulb auction & dinner Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:29:49 -0800 (PST) marvin ellenbecker wrote:Hi, Cathy, sorry I cannot attend due to another commitment. Thanks. Marvin Cathy Craig wrote:Hi all, I have moved the auction and dinner forward to Saturday November 22. Charles Hardman had a problem come up with Nov 15 and Patty couldn't come then either. Will you all please email me PRIVATELY to: CathyCraigEA@hotmail.com to let me know if you plan on attending? Customary time about 4pm-9pm. I may decide not to do the usual pot luck but to have this more-or-less catered; however I may ask a few of you to bring something specific. Thanks all!! Cathy Craig EA your Essential Advisor _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php