From jglatt@ptd.net Mon Sep 1 09:51:26 2003 Message-Id: <000301c37091$6a4b6280$b721bacc@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: Sternbergia Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:00:29 -0400 There I was at a nursery in Connecticut last Saturday. They had four open boxes with Crocus ochroleucus, C. sativus, C. zonatus (isn't the clone that is generally available one that multiplies freely and does not flower?) AND Sternbergia. All items were 10 for $7.00. Of course I succumbed and picked out 10 nice fat brown sternbergia bulbs. Don't you adore it when the bulbs are loose in a bin and you can fondle them and pick out the prettiest? Much better than pre-packed in bags, and getting less and less common. So here's my question - Elizabeth Lawrence in her book "The Little Bulbs" says it likes limestone. I have a 50 pound bag of crushed oyster shell I got from the local farm supply place here in New Jersey. Could/ should I use crushed oyster shell as the drainage material in a potting mix? They'll be potted and on the floor in my cool (50° Fahrenheit) greenhouse over the winter. I'd rather keep them cooler, but the only other choice is to keep them in the attached, unheated garage (38° F. at the coldest) where sufficient sunlight is problematical. Thanks for your sagacious advice. Judy in New Jersey, where it is raining. Again. From jshields104@insightbb.com Mon Sep 1 10:25:22 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030901091748.0267a318@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Sternbergia Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 09:25:21 -0500 Hi, Judy and all, I did not have good luck growing Sternbergia lutea in containers. They survive but they do not bloom in pots for me. Rather, I plant them all outdoors in the ground. They survive, grow, and bloom there! Our soil is over (deep down) limestone bedrock and our water is full of calcium, so I don't know what lime-free soil would do to Sternbergia. I have not done well with other species of Sternbergia either in pots or in the ground. I'd like one that would grow and flower in my raised bed rock garden. Maybe I should try some more S. lutea there. And yes indeed, I certainly do love to run my hands through boxes full of fat, healthy brown bulbs! Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana (USDA zone 5) At 10:00 AM 9/1/2003 -0400, Judy Glattstein wrote: >There I was at a nursery in Connecticut last Saturday. They had four open >boxes with Crocus ochroleucus, C. sativus, C. zonatus (isn't the clone that >is generally available one that multiplies freely and does not flower?) AND >Sternbergia. All items were 10 for $7.00. Of course I succumbed and picked >out 10 nice fat brown sternbergia bulbs. Don't you adore it when the bulbs >are loose in a bin and you can fondle them and pick out the prettiest? Much >better than pre-packed in bags, and getting less and less common. > >So here's my question - Elizabeth Lawrence in her book "The Little Bulbs" >says it likes limestone. I have a 50 pound bag of crushed oyster shell I got >from the local farm supply place here in New Jersey. Could/ should I use >crushed oyster shell as the drainage material in a potting mix? They'll be >potted and on the floor in my cool (50° Fahrenheit) greenhouse over the >winter. I'd rather keep them cooler, but the only other choice is to keep >them in the attached, unheated garage (38° F. at the coldest) where >sufficient sunlight is problematical. > >Thanks for your sagacious advice. > >Judy in New Jersey, where it is raining. Again. > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From Blee811@aol.com Mon Sep 1 10:53:11 2003 Message-Id: <102.34ad744f.2c84b755@aol.com> From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: Sternbergia Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:53:09 EDT I received a gift of several Sternbergia lutea a few years ago, foliage still green, but bulbs bare. I planted them in two different spots in our SW Ohio clay, unamended. They have flourished. I don't think we are particularly limey. One group is on flat ground on the edge of a patch of pachysandra, the other at the top of a slope. I would say from my experience that Sternbergia is not fussy. Bill Lee From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Sep 1 11:50:06 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030901084616.00bbc600@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Crocus "zonatus" Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 08:49:59 -0700 Judy Glattstein wrote, >There I was at a nursery in Connecticut last Saturday. They had four open >boxes with Crocus ochroleucus, C. sativus, C. zonatus (isn't the clone that >is generally available one that multiplies freely and does not flower?) Crocus zonatus is an invalid name for C. kotschyanus (WHY do the Dutch keep using names, like Cyclamen neapolitanum, that have been invalidated decades ago?), and as Judy says, the commercial form is notorious for flowering poorly (though it will bloom if dried off severely in summer and grown very lean). However, there are at least three clones of C. kotschyanus and plenty of wild forms that do flower; the most widely available is called 'Reliant', and an even better one is one from Janis Ruksans under a JRJK collection number. The C. kotschyanus ssp. cappadocicus that I gew from the Archibalds' seed also blooms well. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Sep 1 11:55:16 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030901085039.00badea8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Sternbergia Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 08:54:51 -0700 In my experience, no Sternbergia species (I grow six, if you count S. sicula as separate from S. lutea) needs lime to flower. Mine are all in a mildly acid soil mixture. However, I admit that S. candida has never flowered here, and I have three clones, one of which I've had for almsot ten years. I believe the main prerequisite for flowering in this genus is a warm position. They don't flower well in the open garden for me; I suppose the spring is wet for too long. However, I have seen them flowering well for years in Oregon gardens at slightly lower elevation, up against a south-facing wall. Therefore, I grow them all in a bulb frame and occasionally commit some S. lutea or S. sicula to the garden, where they make leaves but no flowers. In the frame, with very limited water from May through September, they bloom prodigiously. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From cf018a3312@blueyonder.co.uk Mon Sep 1 14:30:53 2003 Message-Id: <000301c370b5$3b03c480$7e89eb50@davidfen> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Eucomis Garden Notes Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:16:57 +0100 Dear All, For those interested, I've had time today to take measurements from some of the Eucomis flowering in the garden here. Hope it's of use to someone. The same info. has also been uploaded to my website, which will of course be updated with further information as I collect it. Floral measurements are averages, whereas leaf measurements are maximums, to this date. Best Wishes, Dave (Plymouth, UK) Eucomis autumnalis (Pot Grown) Height in Flower - 51cm Length of Flowering Head - 17cm Flower Diameter - 19mm Flower Colour - Pure white, shading green. Crown - Less than width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 33cm Leaf Width - 5.8cm Leaf Colour - All green Eucomis autumnalis 'White Dwarf' Height in Flower - 43cm Length of Flowering Head - 19cm Flower Diameter - 18mm Flower Colour - Pure white, shading green. Crown - Larger than width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 30cm Leaf Width - 5cm Leaf Colour - All green Eucomis bicolor Height in Flower - 87cm Length of Flowering Head - 31cm Flower Diameter - 30mm, pendulous. Flower Colour - creamy green, edged red. Crown - Larger than width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 51cm Leaf Width - 11.2cm Leaf Colour - All green, spotted reverse. Eucomis bicolor 'Alba' Height in Flower - 71cm Length of Flowering Head - 23cm Flower Diameter - 24mm, pendulous. Flower Colour - greeny-white Crown - Larger than width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 57cm Leaf Width - 10.5cm Leaf Colour - All green Eucomis comosa (Form One) Height in Flower - 83cm Length of Flowering Head - 23cm Flower Diameter - 26mm Flower Colour - creamy white shading pale green. Crown - Less than width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 76cm Leaf Width - 6.3cm Leaf Colour - Green, spotted leaf bases. Eucomis comosa (Form Two, ex.GP) (Pot Grown) Height in Flower - 78cm Length of Flowering Head - 42cm Flower Diameter - 31mm Flower Colour - creamy white shading green with purplish pink edge. Crown - Less than width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 53cm Leaf Width - 9.5cm Leaf Colour - Green, spotted leaf bases. Eucomis comosa var. striata Height in Flower - 61cm Length of Flowering Head - 25cm Flower Diameter - 28mm Flower Colour - creamy white with light green centre and purplish edge. Crown - Equal to width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 44cm Leaf Width - 6.7cm Leaf Colour - Green, striped reverse. Eucomis comosa 'Cornwood' Height in Flower - 76cm Length of Flowering Head - 42cm Flower Diameter - 25mm Flower Colour - Pure white, shading pale green with purple edge. Crown - Less than width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 58cm Leaf Width - 8cm Leaf Colour - Green, spotted leaf bases. Eucomis comosa 'First Red' Height in Flower - 76cm Length of Flowering Head - 29cm Flower Diameter - 27mm Flower Colour - pinkish white Crown - Equal to width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 88cm Leaf Width - 7cm Leaf Colour - Burgundy Eucomis comosa 'Rose Selection' Height in Flower - 43cm Length of Flowering Head - 25cm Flower Diameter - 24mm Flower Colour - lilac pink. Crown - Less than width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 57cm Leaf Width - 8.5cm Leaf Colour - Bronzey purple. Eucomis comosa 'Sparkling Burgundy' Height in Flower - 91cm Length of Flowering Head - 37cm Flower Diameter - 29mm Flower Colour - Pale reddy green shading purplish reddy green. Crown - Less than width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 70cm Leaf Width - 9cm Leaf Colour - Burgundy Eucomis comosa (purple leafed form) (NCCPG North East Group) Height in Flower - 77cm Length of Flowering Head - 41cm Flower Diameter - 27mm Flower Colour - White to cream, later blushed rose and green. Crown - Larger than width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 64cm Leaf Width - 13cm Leaf Colour - Purplish when young. Other Features - Long pale red streaks on flower spike between buds. Eucomis pallidiflora ? (MF) Height in Flower - 78cm Length of Flowering Head - 35cm Flower Diameter - 30mm Flower Colour - White with green, shading pale green with purplish tips. Crown - Equal to width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 58cm Leaf Width - 8.6cm Leaf Colour - Green, striped reverse. Eucomis pole-evansii (striated hyb.) Height in Flower - 94cm Length of Flowering Head - 41cm Flower Diameter - 29mm Flower Colour - Cream, shading pinky-red and green. Crown - Less than width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 100cm Leaf Width - 12cm Leaf Colour - Bronzey green with deeper striations. Eucomis pole-evansii Height in Flower - 113cm Length of Flowering Head - 27cm Flower Diameter - 30mm Flower Colour - Off white to very pale yellowish green. Crown - Less than width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 105cm Leaf Width - 15cm Leaf Colour - All green. Eucomis vandermerwei Height in Flower - 14cm Length of Flowering Head - 7.5cm Flower Diameter - 15mm Flower Colour - Deep purplish green. Crown - Equal to width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 22cm Leaf Width - 2.6cm Leaf Colour - Dark green, spotted deep burgundy. Eucomis 'African Bride' Height in Flower - 83cm Length of Flowering Head - 40cm Flower Diameter - 27mm Flower Colour - Cream shading green with purple tints. Crown - Less than width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 51cm Leaf Width - 11.2cm Leaf Colour - All green. Eucomis 'Frank Lawley' Height in Flower - 85cm Length of Flowering Head - 34cm Flower Diameter - 35mm Flower Colour - Off white to cream, tinted red green with age. Crown - Equal to width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 73cm Leaf Width - 9.2cm Leaf Colour - Green, with pronounced white midrib. Eucomis 'John Huxtable' Height in Flower - 58cm Length of Flowering Head - 22cm Flower Diameter - Flower Colour - Crown - Less than width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 77cm Leaf Width - 7.5cm Leaf Colour - All green. Eucomis 'John Treasure' Height in Flower - 54cm Length of Flowering Head - 29cm Flower Diameter - 20mm Flower Colour - Pinkish rose to deep reddy purple. Crown - Less than width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 42cm Leaf Width - 5cm Leaf Colour - Purplish green when young. Eucomis 'Swazi Pride' Height in Flower - 70cm Length of Flowering Head - 23cm Flower Diameter - 29mm Flower Colour - Reddy-pink shading reddy-purple. Crown - Less than width of inflorescence Leaf Length - 60cm Leaf Width - 8cm Leaf Colour - All green. David Fenwick NCCPG National Plant Heritage Collections of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens Estover Plymouth Devon England PL6 8TW Websites www.theafricangarden.com www.crocosmiaheritage.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release Date: 14/08/03 From angelopalm69@inwind.it Mon Sep 1 15:42:27 2003 Message-Id: <000901c370c0$e579c3a0$5be8623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Sternbergia Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:40:26 +0200 Hi Judy, the Sternbergia lutea grows in a variety of soils here, from red clay which is rather neutral, to alkaline loam, so I don't think ph would be an issue.Soils are stony, although bulbs are deeply embedded and this species, unlike the Cyclamen hederifolium which share the same habitat, grows only in open areas, that is, never or rarely under shrubs and in this case plants are weak and flower poorly. I have also added a new page with three photos, but for some reasons (this board is still too complicated for me, sorry !) it seems to dont' work :-( Angelo Porcelli Italy From hamish.sloan@virgin.net Mon Sep 1 16:38:38 2003 Message-Id: <01C370D1.5CBA60E0.hamish.sloan@virgin.net> From: Hamish Sloan Subject: Old names Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:37:29 +0100 Hello all, Judy Glattstein wrote, "Crocus zonatus is an invalid name for C. kotschyanus (WHY do the Dutch keep using names, like Cyclamen neapolitanum, that have been invalidated decades ago?), .... " The best example of this continuing use of old names, that I know of, is using Calla for Zantedeschia. Calla was replaced in 1820! Was it replaced by Richardia, then thrown into Arum, then became Zantedeschia. I'm hazy on this but Calla is still around this side of the pond. Regards Hamish Was a wettish Zone 9 - now waitng on some real rain. From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Sep 1 16:52:14 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Sternbergia in MO Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:51:45 -0500 >I would say from my experience that Sternbergia is not >fussy. Bill Lee Dear All; Here in Kansas City* S. lutea is hardy and trouble free for the most part. They do not multiply fast, but do so slowly and eventually. Never tried them in pots for comparison, but hardiness is not a problem. One year I bought some mail order and one of them turned out to be the uncommon species S. colchiciflora with distinct foliage and flower. It has neither off set or set seed, but remains a single bulb. Best Jim W. * Soils here are all alkaline. Summer hot and dry. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From Antennaria@aol.com Mon Sep 1 21:41:39 2003 Message-Id: <14d.235d0a6b.2c854f4b@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Subject: [pbs] Sternbergia Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:41:31 EDT Judy, et al, I grow two Sternbergia here in northern Massachusetts, out in the garden. Both are grown on small enbankments on the south (warm) side of the house in full sun, and flower beautifully. Sternbergia lutea is growing in clay/loam amended with some sand, on the southerly facing base of a rose-of-sharon shrub (hibiscus syriacus cultivar). I plant bulbs around the bases of deciduous shrubs, with the theory that the shrub roots take up much of the summer moisture, allowing the bulbs to dry out properly. So far, this technique has worked very well. This Sternbergia species has handsome shiney green strap-like foliage that remain amazingly evergreen in spite of ice and snow through the winter. The late autumn flowers are glorious. Sternbergia fischeriana is a beautiful species. Buds might show in very late autmun/early winter in mind autumns, but they don't open until early spring here. The flowers are very large, and the glaucous foliage attractive and narcissus-like. This species is grown in a very sandy soil amended with some leaf humus, and seems easy enough to grow. Picture link at: http://www.plantbuzz.com/Buzz/im_stern_id.htm I'm north of you, so these should be doable in your climate. Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From meenglis@cts.com Tue Sep 2 00:58:56 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20030901214046.00bb3058@mailbox2.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Articles, anyone? Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 21:47:54 -0700 I am just about to start editing for the Fall issue of "The Bulb Garden" and still have room for some short articles. If you have an article in the works, please do submit it to me privately. Since November is time to plant spring blooming bulbs for many of us, I would love to have a plant profile on one of your favorite Narcissus or Crocus. Please include description of how you grow it and where your garden lives plus a description of your favorite companions for this bulb and the reasons you like the planting. Plant Profiles usually detail one species or one genus and may be anywhere from one to 3 columns long depending on the information in your article. Marguerite English, Editor: 'The Bulb Garden' Pacific Bulb Society For information and membership forms, view http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/ From jamievande@freenet.de Wed Sep 3 08:49:43 2003 Message-Id: <006b01c37219$c2a13700$6402a8c0@celeron> From: "Jamie" Subject: Origins Article - Hemerocallis Europa Website Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:49:04 +0200 Jamie Vande Cologne Germany Zone 8 Morning Hem fans, we have just posted an article concerning species and their traits, by Dr. Juerg Plodeck, on the Hemerocallis Europa e.V. website. There are a few excellent photos as well as descriptions of the species. Sort of an everything you wanted to know about the species. IMHO, an excellent reference work from one of the leading authorities on Hemerocallis species. The direct link is given below. This is a "reprint" of an article out of the Sept-Dec 2002 Hemerocallis Europa Newsletter. http://hemerocallis-europa.org/html/English/SelectArticles_HemTraitOrigin_En gl.html visit the entire site, in English or German, at http://hemerocallis-europa.org Yes, this is an unashamed membership drive. We welcome members from all corners of the world, so don't let the Europa in the name fool you! Jamie V. Cologne From jshields104@insightbb.com Wed Sep 3 09:40:16 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030903083223.02601dc0@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Duplicate messages; friends' health Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:40:06 -0500 Hi all, When I send a posting to [pbs] and to any other list at the same time, the [pbs] listserver re-sends it to the other addresses in the TO: field. Apparently, only the [pbs] list server does this -- a quirk of the software. Perhaps someone can mention this to the host ISP for the [pbs] list sometime. I will get back three copies of this message: one from Bulbs-L, one from [pbs], and one sent to Bulbs-L by [pbs]. Can anyone tell us how Harold Koopowitz's health is doing? He cancelled his trip to the IBSA (Indigenous Bulb Association of South Africa) bulb symposium because of it. I might also mention that Kathy Andersen came down with a febrile illness shortly after she arrived in South Africa. It was probably contracted before she left home. She was still in hospital there two days ago, according to Dave Lehmiller. Regards, Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From jshields104@insightbb.com Wed Sep 3 13:05:11 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030903115353.00b0ea50@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Hymenocallis maximilianii Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 12:04:59 -0500 Hi all, I got a few bulbs of Hymenocallis maximilianii from Russell Stafford (Odyssey Bulbs) in April, 2002. One of these is now sending up a scape. It isn't in "Flora of North America" vol. 26. Thad Howard lists it as from Mexico, coastal Guerrero, and as being "somewhat like H. acutifolia." Can anyone tell me about how I ought to be growing it? I have the feeling it is only flowering for me because of the extraordinarily rainy season we are having. How big is it going to get someday? What size container ought it be grown in? I've crowded 5 of these into one 10-inch bulb pan (only about 4 or 5 inches deep). Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Wed Sep 3 13:51:29 2003 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476B97529@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Hymenocallis maximilianii Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:51:47 -0500 Hi Jim: Dr. Jim Bauml with the Los Angeles County Arboretum travels to Mexico relatively frequently for his ethnobotanical research. If I remember correctly, he gave a presentation at the IBS meeting at the Huntington and had a lot of Hymenocallis taxa in his slide presentation. I haven't got a direct telephone number for him but the main number is (626) 821-3231. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: J.E. Shields [mailto:jshields104@insightbb.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 12:05 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Hymenocallis maximilianii Hi all, I got a few bulbs of Hymenocallis maximilianii from Russell Stafford (Odyssey Bulbs) in April, 2002. One of these is now sending up a scape. It isn't in "Flora of North America" vol. 26. Thad Howard lists it as from Mexico, coastal Guerrero, and as being "somewhat like H. acutifolia." Can anyone tell me about how I ought to be growing it? I have the feeling it is only flowering for me because of the extraordinarily rainy season we are having. How big is it going to get someday? What size container ought it be grown in? I've crowded 5 of these into one 10-inch bulb pan (only about 4 or 5 inches deep). Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jshields104@insightbb.com Wed Sep 3 14:22:39 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030903130759.0264e068@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Hymenocallis maximilianii Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:22:34 -0500 Boyce, A very good suggestion! I had Jim Bauml's e-mail address, but lost it. I've left him a message on his voice mail, at least. I assume he is in the USA right now, but there's no telling. I did talk with Jim at the IBS symposium at The Huntington. We talked about Hymenocallis, actually. Then I lost his e-mail address. Does anyone still grow that group of Mexican Hymenocallis species described by Jim Bauml, Thad Howard, and maybe some others? I'd like to get new bulbs for my collection, such things as HH. durangensis, chiapasiana, guerreroensis, azteciana, astrostephana, howardii? I had most of them, from Jim and from Thad, in my collection 20 years ago (more or less). I don't have them now, unfortunately. I would be interested in exchanging breeding material of Mexican and U.S. Hymenocallis species with anyone else interested in ex situ preservation of these species. Regards, Jim Shields At 12:51 PM 9/3/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Jim: > >Dr. Jim Bauml with the Los Angeles County Arboretum travels to Mexico >relatively frequently for his ethnobotanical research. If I remember >correctly, he gave a presentation at the IBS meeting at the Huntington and >had a lot of Hymenocallis taxa in his slide presentation. I haven't got a >direct telephone number for him but the main number is (626) 821-3231. > >Boyce Tankersley >btankers@chicagobotanic.org > >-----Original Message----- >From: J.E. Shields [mailto:jshields104@insightbb.com] >Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 12:05 PM >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: [pbs] Hymenocallis maximilianii > > >Hi all, > >I got a few bulbs of Hymenocallis maximilianii from Russell Stafford >(Odyssey Bulbs) in April, 2002. One of these is now sending up a >scape. It isn't in "Flora of North America" vol. 26. Thad Howard lists it >as from Mexico, coastal Guerrero, and as being "somewhat like H. acutifolia." > >Can anyone tell me about how I ought to be growing it? I have the feeling >it is only flowering for me because of the extraordinarily rainy season we >are having. How big is it going to get someday? What size container ought >it be grown in? I've crowded 5 of these into one 10-inch bulb pan (only >about 4 or 5 inches deep). > >Regards, >Jim Shields >in central Indiana > >************************************************* >Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. >P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ >Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA >Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA >Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From tony@plantdel.com Wed Sep 3 16:47:47 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20030903164751.02994918@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: Hymenocallis maximilianii Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:47:51 -0400 Jim: We are growing Hymenocallis maximiliana in typical garden conditions beside H. 'Tropical Giant'. This species is very vigorous here and three year old clumps are 24" wide x 12" tall. It has proven to be a superb garden performer for us. At 12:04 PM 9/3/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I got a few bulbs of Hymenocallis maximilianii from Russell Stafford >(Odyssey Bulbs) in April, 2002. One of these is now sending up a >scape. It isn't in "Flora of North America" vol. 26. Thad Howard lists it >as from Mexico, coastal Guerrero, and as being "somewhat like H. acutifolia." > >Can anyone tell me about how I ought to be growing it? I have the feeling >it is only flowering for me because of the extraordinarily rainy season we >are having. How big is it going to get someday? What size container ought >it be grown in? I've crowded 5 of these into one 10-inch bulb pan (only >about 4 or 5 inches deep). > >Regards, >Jim Shields >in central Indiana > >************************************************* >Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. >P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ >Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA >Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA >Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Sep 3 20:06:43 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Another Lycoris Trick Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:06:15 -0500 Dear all; I recently pondered the effect of drought on Lycoris bloom initiation. After 2 1/2 months of near total drought, a patch of 25 L. chinensis produced a single short flower stalk. Last weekend we had 7 inches of rain over two days and it soaked in very nicely. Within 24 hours and almost visibly this same patch of bulbs is producing 40 flowering stalks some even blooming as they emerged (very odd) and some reaching nearly full size. I can't recall stalks emerging with such such synchrony and speed. It has taken a few more days, but the traditionally later to bloom L. caldwellii have now started to pop. They look like they will be normal in regard to numbers and height, but the still closed buds appear to have a slight pink tinge to them which I don't really recall. Flowers should be a pale yellow. Is this a heat or drought effect? To be continued. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Wed Sep 3 20:13:19 2003 Message-Id: <3F56839A.9080104@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Another Lycoris Trick Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 19:13:14 -0500 Jim: I've only got a clump of the L. caldwellii, and I was wondering why the flower bud looked pink, too. It's not the clump that bloomed last year, though, so it could be an off-type. It will probably open yellow. L. chinensis responded well to the same rain, here. Only a handful had come up before, but I am about to see several dozen in full bloom in the next day or two. James Waddick wrote: > Dear all; > I recently pondered the effect of drought on Lycoris bloom > initiation. > > After 2 1/2 months of near total drought, a patch of 25 L. > chinensis produced a single short flower stalk. Last weekend we had 7 > inches of rain over two days and it soaked in very nicely. Within 24 > hours and almost visibly this same patch of bulbs is producing 40 > flowering stalks some even blooming as they emerged (very odd) and > some reaching nearly full size. I can't recall stalks emerging with > such such synchrony and speed. > > It has taken a few more days, but the traditionally later to bloom > L. caldwellii have now started to pop. They look like they will be > normal in regard to numbers and height, but the still closed buds > appear to have a slight pink tinge to them which I don't really > recall. Flowers should be a pale yellow. Is this a heat or drought > effect? > > To be continued. Best Jim W. -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From HTD10@Columbia.edu Thu Sep 4 03:33:33 2003 Message-Id: <3F56EAD2.90907@Columbia.edu> From: Harry Dewey Subject: Sylvie wrote: "The ATOW is a WONDERFUL idea!!!" Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 03:33:38 -0400 Sylvie wrote: The ATOW is a WONDERFUL idea!!!" And Jim Waddick replied: "Dear Sylvie; Please thank Harry Dewey, the mastermind of this project." NOT SO! It is very kind of Jim to say that, but credit belongs to Kelly Irvin and Mary Sue Ittner. The initial idea seems to have been Kelly'a. Unfortunately, his name was misspelled as "Irwin" in our initial effort to acknowledge his contribution: http://nic.surfnet.nl/scripts/wa.exe?S2=alpine-l&q=irwin&s=&f=&a=aug+2003&b= Irvin's idea of a Genus of the Week has been enormously successful as adopted on PBS, the emailinglist of the Pacific Bulb Society, where its adaptation as "Topic of the Week" has resulted in a tremendously increased amount of participation by subscribers. Having first secured approval from both Irvin and Ittner for borrowing the idea, a group of Alpine-Lves consisting of Jim Waddick, Mark McDonough, Paige Woodward, Sasha Borkovec and myself undertook planning that resulted in what so far seems a successful innovation. A GIMMICK, AN IDEA, OR A REVOLUTION? Is a "topic of the week" just a gimmick, or just a clever idea, or is it a revolution in the world of emailinglists? Particularly because it was not my original idea, I have no hesitation in branding it as the most significant advance in the world of emailinglists in many years. I am told that anyone can see how revolutionary the idea is. And on that ground I was persuaded to omit this assessment from our original announcement at the end of August. But I feel strongly that we should all understand the dimensions of the basic new idea that has made a Topic of the Week such a huge success in the three emailinglists that have so far adopted the device. The power of Kelly Irvin's brilliant concept lies in its organized educational approach to the exchange of knowledge as opposed to the random question and answer method of conventional emailinglists. The more knowledgeable the planners, the more comprehensive and organized the topics of the week are likely to be. The result could easily be a systematically-organized course in rock gardening with hundreds of guest lecturers. Alpine-L’s upcoming ATOWs will provide experts who will lead us in discussions that – over time – can cover a huge range of rock garden knowledge, rather than just the topics that members have asked about in the past. No one within our planning group has been willing to take on the key role of overall leader, in emulation of Mary Sue Ittner's brilliant guidance of the PBS Topics of the Week, and we are proceeding now with four leaders (moderators), with the idea of rotating the leadership on a monthly basis. If, at the end of four months, the program is deemed a success, each of the four moderators will take another turn. We had originally planned to have six moderators, and that -- or seven or even eight == is still an important goal Thank you, Sylvie, for the wonderful compliment. I'm passing it along to Kelly Irvin and Mary Sue Ittner, who deserve it most of all. With best wishes, Harry -- Harry Dewey, moderator, Alpine-L From dells@voicenet.com Thu Sep 4 06:46:52 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 40 CLOSED Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 06:49:14 -0400 Dear All, Packages will go out after the weekend. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Thu Sep 4 10:02:47 2003 Message-Id: <3F574601.1000502@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Sylvie wrote: "The ATOW is a WONDERFUL idea!!!" Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 09:02:41 -0500 Harry: Let's just say, for scenario purposes only, of course, that I have felt like a failure for about the past 7 years. Well, your e-mail message would have effectively erased all that. ;-) Thanks for the comments. Due to your comments, though, I must add a critical name to the formula. Her name is Bibbs Gambler (Gamber?), and she offered the idea within a month of joining the IBS Forum back in December of '98. Nothing ever happens if an idea is not first conceived and expressed. Also, the discussion formula that was devised and named GENERA52 for the year 1999, was nothing so nearly elaborate and effective as what Mary Sue and her talented, enthusiastic team have put together. I must emphasize, if nobody minds, that it's critical success is in being "married" to the existing spontaneous behavior of existing e-mail lists; a bringing together of opposite approaches. I do not believe a scheduled-only topics based list's or a spontaneous-only topics based list's, seperate success, equals the combined success of both styles within ONE list. The idea is based on a theory of cooperation where 1 + 1 no longer equals 2, but maybe 3 or 4. When I put GENERA52 together, it took 2 or 3 months for people to realize spontaneous topics were still an invited and, I believe, necessary part of list discussion. Essentially, having both helped remove lulls in discussion that would normally exist if only one of the styles was an acceptible part of list protocol. Again, thank you for your comments. They sure made my day (or even year). I don't mind too much what you call me either - Kelly (Irvin, Erwin, Irwin, Irving, Ewing [yep, I've been called that], Earwig [anticipated]) - just don't call me "Late for SUPPER!" I knew a former IBS President and, another, my former pastor (actually, two different pastors), neither ever getting it right. To them I was an "Irwin". When I was in elementary school, my teacher taught me to spell my last name "Irving". Boy, was I confused! I may have an identity crisis, but, if I get my supper, I can live with it. Information I found in my records on "Bibbs"... > My name is Bibbs Gamber from Dothan, Alabama. Zone 8b. I normally use >Alabama Grandma as my signature. > > I grow and hybridize tetraploid double daylilies, while also growing many >other perennials, bulbs, shrubs and trees. I have been a member of onelist >bulb forum for about two weeks and have thoroughly enjoyed it and have been >chatting with several in the chat room, but they all talk about IBS and their >friends in IBS so I finally joined IBS. I am truly looking forward to knowing >which bulbs will grow best for this southern area. > > I do grow daffoldils, crocus, anemonies, amaryllis, hippeastrums, scilla, >haemanthus, hymenocallis, iris, lycoris, allium, and a few more. Until >talking with Sheila, Bud and Gary, I did not realize that so many people grew >the species of bulbs. That is very interesting. Seems like one would run out >of the kinds they could grow. I am interested in growing just about >anything in this zone unless they are very invasive. Like ornithogalums! they >are everywhere in the garden! I would love more alliums and hippes, > Harry Dewey wrote: > It is very kind of Jim to say that, but credit belongs to Kelly Irvin > and Mary Sue Ittner. -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Thu Sep 4 10:08:48 2003 Message-Id: <3F57476A.9060902@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: spelling corrections Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 09:08:42 -0500 acceptible = acceptable seperate = separate -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Thu Sep 4 10:20:29 2003 Message-Id: <3F574A27.9040100@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Another Lycoris Trick Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 09:20:23 -0500 Jim et al. I took a picture of my Lycoris caldwellii in bud yesterday evening. Does yours look like this? http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Lycoris_caldwellii04.jpg This morning the largest bud is already losing the pink blush. To add a small bit of horticultural humor, one of the stalks has a bit of a straggler with it, as if one of the flower buds did not make the train... http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Lycoris_caldwellii05.jpg A NOTE to ARNOLD: Please remove these images in the next day or two. I just wanted to illustrate Jim's observation. James Waddick wrote: > Dear all; > I recently pondered the effect of drought on Lycoris bloom > initiation. > > After 2 1/2 months of near total drought, a patch of 25 L. > chinensis produced a single short flower stalk. Last weekend we had 7 > inches of rain over two days and it soaked in very nicely. Within 24 > hours and almost visibly this same patch of bulbs is producing 40 > flowering stalks some even blooming as they emerged (very odd) and > some reaching nearly full size. I can't recall stalks emerging with > such such synchrony and speed. > > It has taken a few more days, but the traditionally later to bloom > L. caldwellii have now started to pop. They look like they will be > normal in regard to numbers and height, but the still closed buds > appear to have a slight pink tinge to them which I don't really > recall. Flowers should be a pale yellow. Is this a heat or drought > effect? > > To be continued. Best Jim W. -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From jamievande@freenet.de Thu Sep 4 10:51:10 2003 Message-Id: <000701c372f3$e4e777e0$6402a8c0@celeron> From: "Jamie" Subject: Cyrtanthus questions Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:50:32 +0200 OK, I could use a bit of advice, here. In a mad buying spree, I ordered the following seed from Silver Hill and would like some advice on planting them. Cyrtanthus brachyscyphus, C. breviflorus, C. clavatus, C. epiphyticus, C. helictus, C. smithiae, C. stenanthus, C. suaveolens and Veltheimia capensis plus V. bracteata. All bits and pieces are welcome! Jamie V. Cologne From arnold@nj.rr.com Thu Sep 4 18:49:28 2003 Message-Id: <3F57C170.2050207@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Sylvie wrote: "The ATOW is a WONDERFUL idea!!!" Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 18:49:20 -0400 Harry: I have one correction. It was Kelly's idea back when many of us were involved with the IBS ( International Bulb Society) Arnold From HTD10@Columbia.edu Fri Sep 5 07:07:25 2003 Message-Id: <3F586E7D.8070401@Columbia.edu> From: Harry Dewey Subject: Sylvie wrote: "The ATOW is a WONDERFUL idea!!!" Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 07:07:41 -0400 John Mitchell, Attorney General of the United States during the Nixon presidency, said (about the Watergate scandal) "When things begin to unravel, they unravel completely." The latest news to unravel is that Bibbs Gamber, of Dothan, Alabama, was responsible for the original idea from which our Alpine Topic Of the Week is descended. Kelly Irvin (to whom Jim Waddick gave credit for the TOW idea in the first ATOW announcement on Alpine-L almost a week ago) has sent me -- and copied to the PBS (Pacific Bulb Society) list -- tidbits that give credit to Bibbs Gamber. Excerpts from his personal message follow my signature, below.: I'm happy to report that, as Kelly emphasizes, Alpine-Lves have recognized the importance of continuing to intersperse questions and answers about other topics among the ATOWs, resulting in a healthy and interesting mix. Thank you, Ann Kline, for your recollections of Mary Sue Ittner's success with the Topic-of-the-Week idea on the IBS emailinglist some five years ago. Does anyone have an email address for "Alabama Grandma" (Bibbs Gamber)? If so, please post it directly to Alpine-L. She deserves thanks from any of us who appreciate her contribution. If you are reading this on the PBS list (to which I'm copying this posting), please post her address to Alpine-L-request@nic.surfnet.NL if you are not a subscriber to Alpine-L, and therefore unable to post directly, to it. I'm tempted to suggest a change of name for our ATOWs to AGTOWs (for Alabama Grandma Topic of the Week -- er, excuse me, I mean Alpine Gardening Topic of the Week). I suppose that's going too far, but I'll be happy for anyone to use either abbreviation. Whichever, you use, would you mind putting it at the END of the subject headers instead of at the beginning? As in: Subject: Smaller iris (ATOW) instead of Subject: ATOW - Smaller iris I know our original ATOW announcement showed it at the beginning. Please forgive me for the goof.. .And don't forget to read about Alabama Grandma's brilliant contribution following my signature. Greetings to all, from Harry (Harry Dewey, moderator, Alpine-L) Kelly wrote me: <<<< My name is Bibbs Gamber from Dothan, Alabama. Zone 8b. I normally use > Alabama Grandma as my signature. > > I grow and hybridize tetraploid double daylilies, while also growing many > other perennials, bulbs, shrubs and trees. I have been a member of > onelist > bulb forum for about two weeks and have thoroughly enjoyed it and have > been > chatting with several in the chat room, but they all talk about IBS > and their > friends in IBS so I finally joined IBS. I am truly looking forward to > knowing > which bulbs will grow best for this southern area. > > I do grow daffodils, crocus, anemones, amaryllis, hippeastrums, scilla, > haemanthus, hymenocallis, iris, lycoris, allium, and a few more. Until > talking with Sheila, Bud and Gary, I did not realize that so many > people grew > the species of bulbs. That is very interesting. Seems like one would > run out > of the kinds they could grow. I am interested in growing just about > anything in this zone unless they are very invasive. Like > ornithogalums! they > are everywhere in the garden! I would love more alliums and hippes, > Harry Dewey wrote: > It is very kind of Jim to say that, but credit belongs to Kelly Irvin > and Mary Sue Ittner. -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ >>>>> From Blee811@aol.com Fri Sep 5 22:16:47 2003 Message-Id: From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: Duplicate messages; friends' health Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 22:16:41 EDT From bandula@absamail.co.za Sun Sep 7 10:08:55 2003 Message-Id: <000101c37480$9aa8de60$d55427c4@w98sysrec> From: "Digby Boswell" Subject: Phaedranessa culture Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:16:19 +0200 Dear Joyce My Phaedranassa's are flowering at the moment after surviving a rather cold (for us here in South Africa). My plants get watered all through the year and it does not deter them from flowering. The temperature range that you get there is roughly the same as mine. My plants are growing in about 60% shade so maybe that is the answer. Cheers, Digby. Pietermaritzburg, South Africa. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joyce Miller To: Sent: 07 September 2003 3:36 AM Subject: [pbs] Phaedranessa culture > Dear All, > I have several species of Phaedranessa bulbs. The only one I am > sure of the ID is the one I bought from Telos Rare Bulbs and it blooms > fairly well. Others I have raised from seed have never bloomed. > I recall reading Phaedranessa requires a drought period. Can > anyone tell me when to withhold water and for how long a period? > I can never get a clear sense of dormancy because when the mother > bulb is dormant, the daughter offset is growing. What to do? > > Kind regards, Joyce Miller > > Joyce E. Miller mailto:onager@midtown.net > Zone USDA 9A Summer highs 100+degrees F for several to many days. Winter > lows 27 degrees F > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From silverhill@yebo.co.za Sat Sep 6 08:19:45 2003 Message-Id: <03ef01c37471$71ea1ac0$237cef9b@saunders> From: "Rachel Saunders" Subject: Cyrtanthus questions Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 13:53:40 +0200 Dear Jamie Cyrtanthus seeds are perishable and should be sown soon. We normally sow them on the surface of potting soil and we do not cover the seeds. Water the pot well, and cover the pot with a plastic bag so that it remains moist. Whent he seeds start to germinate, remove the plastic. Some people float the seeds on water until they germinate, and this also works well. Veltheimias are winter growing plants, so seed should be sown in autumn (although I have heard of people sowing them in spring). Sow on well drained potting mix and keep moist. They need warm days and cold nights to stimulate their germination, so do not put your pot into a hot house or in a house with constant temperature. Regards Rachel Saunders Cape Town ----- Original Message ----- From: Jamie To: Pacific Bulb Society ; Bulbs Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 4:50 PM Subject: [pbs] Cyrtanthus questions > OK, I could use a bit of advice, here. In a mad buying spree, I ordered the > following seed from Silver Hill and would like some advice on planting them. > Cyrtanthus brachyscyphus, C. breviflorus, C. clavatus, C. epiphyticus, C. > helictus, C. smithiae, C. stenanthus, C. suaveolens and Veltheimia capensis > plus V. bracteata. All bits and pieces are welcome! > > Jamie V. > Cologne > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jamievande@freenet.de Sat Sep 6 08:46:06 2003 Message-Id: <009001c37474$bfff16e0$6402a8c0@celeron> From: "Jamie" Subject: Cyrtanthus questions Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:45:02 +0200 Rachel, thanks, especially for the Veltheimias, which I would have definitely done on the windowsill, a mistake! I'll set them in the garden house, so they will enjoy the daily temperature fluctuations. Seeds are always exiciting. Tiny miracles waiting to happen. Again, with the Veltheimias, as one is reported as Winter growing (actually evergreen), do they require different handling at this stage, or would I be wise to try keeping them in growth for the first year or two, as with Hippeastrum? Ciao, Jamie V. Cologne From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Sep 6 09:48:58 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Ungernia post script and question. Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 08:36:07 -0500 Dear all; I know a number of you are very interested in the genus Ungernia supposedly the closest relative to Lycoris. Last fall (after years of pleading) I was able to get 5 bulbs of 3, possibly 4, species. All looked small and pitiful (compared to Lycoris). However, all emerged in spring with some foliage and this lasted a couple of months before yellowing and appearing to go dormant (not just dying). I really did not anticipate bloom this fall-and none have, but this summer's heat and drought should have suited them just fine. Fingers remain crossed that come spring they will pop up stronger then this year. When I got the bulbs I was rather surprised to see what I later learned is a characteristic of the bulb. I'll try to describe it to make sense. The basal plate (at the bottom of the bulb) is fairly thick and very dense. Each year as more bulb scales are added and old ones rot away, the basal plate does not deteriorate. This means that as the bulb ages these basal plates form an under-bulb 'stem' the diameter of the plate and up to a couple of inches in length sort of like a pencil stub coming out of the bottom of the bulb, but consisting of 'woody' basal plates stacked on top of one another. If a bulb has divided these under 'bulb stems' show that branching until eventually they too rot away in time. Very odd looking. I assume that old vigorous bulbs could have an extensive set of underground branches each culminating in a growing bulb, like an underground 'bulb tree'. Hope this makes sense. Has anyone see this in any other bulbs? Always curious Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Sep 6 09:49:11 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Another Lycoris Trick Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 08:48:50 -0500 >Jim et al. > >I took a picture of my Lycoris caldwellii in bud yesterday evening. >Does yours look like this? Hi Kelly; My L. caldwellii in bud wasn't quite as pink as the one in your picture. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Lycoris_caldwellii04.jpg but almost. As the buds elongated, they got paler and paler and now a couple have opened to pale yellow with a faint pink midline. This midline will fade in time. Although I do have another-a hybrid of some sort (oops, lost label) that looks very similar, except the pink line is even stronger and I think it will be more evident when that one opens too. The rain is still bringing on late stalks - even L.sprengeri, while some such as 'Spring of West lake' which had a single stalk about 2 weeks ago now has another half dozen. Later species are now just starting and I expect stragglers all of September and into Oct. One of the BIG advantages to growing a range of Lycoris sp and hybrids is the long bloom season, normally from mid-August to Mid-Oct as one after another comes into bloom. I love it! -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Sat Sep 6 10:06:29 2003 Message-Id: <3F59E9DC.9060506@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Ungernia post script and question. Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 09:06:20 -0500 Jim: I envy your ability to acquire these. Besides my not being able to find any sources, many don't even know what I'm talking about, usually thinking I'm mispelling "Urginea". I've still got that image you sent, I think it was last year. Your observation about the basal plate is quite interesting. Can you tell if the tissue is living? Are you suggesting bulblets or some kind of runners may form off of them for asexual propagation? It's a very curious observation. James Waddick wrote: > Dear all; > I know a number of you are very interested in the genus Ungernia > supposedly the closest relative to Lycoris. -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Sat Sep 6 10:13:44 2003 Message-Id: <3F59EB90.1000700@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Another Lycoris Trick Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 09:13:36 -0500 Mine has turned the expected color, too. A number of my fall foliage species and hybrids are taking off now. The L. aurea var. aurea you sold me is about to bloom, again about 2 weeks ahead of my var. surgens like last season. The latter are only just now showing "signs". When do you expect your L. radiata var. radiata to bloom? I know in zone 7, you can pretty much mark August 31st, give or take, on your calendar, so I am guessing mid-September here. I've not had much luck with bloom on these so far, except in pots. James Waddick wrote: > Hi Kelly; > My L. caldwellii in bud wasn't quite as pink as the one in your > picture. -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From jshields104@insightbb.com Sat Sep 6 10:36:05 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030906092947.0261bc80@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Lycoris, Rhodophiala, and Colchicum. Was Re: [pbs] Another Lycoris Trick Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 09:36:04 -0500 HI Kelly and Jim W., I got Lycoris radiata radiata a couple years ago from Rodney Barton in Texas. I planted these outdoors in the ground in three different spots. One clump died the first winter. The others are alive and have bloomed twice. As I recall, the show up in October here. Rodney also sent me some Rhodophiala bifida at the same time, and they have survived outdoors in one place, but died in another. They should bloom just before the radiata do here. Kelly, try them in the ground, but in several different spots. You ought to find at least one place where they do well year-round. My first Colchicum is in bloom -- C. autumnale. C. cilicicum usually is first, but not this year. Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana At 09:13 AM 9/6/2003 -0500, Kelly Irvin wrote: >Mine has turned the expected color, too. A number of my fall foliage >species and hybrids are taking off now. The L. aurea var. aurea you sold >me is about to bloom, again about 2 weeks ahead of my var. surgens like >last season. The latter are only just now showing "signs". > >When do you expect your L. radiata var. radiata to bloom? I know in zone >7, you can pretty much mark August 31st, give or take, on your calendar, >so I am guessing mid-September here. I've not had much luck with bloom on >these so far, except in pots. ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Sat Sep 6 10:51:50 2003 Message-Id: <3F59F47D.7020308@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Lycoris, Rhodophiala, and Colchicum. Was Re: [pbs] Another Lycoris Trick Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 09:51:41 -0500 Thanks for the advice, Jim S. I do have them in several locations. The best location so far appears to be on the north side under a large maple. The foliage did not get damaged this winter. Frost appears minimal in this location. Another location, right by my winter house gets heavy frost and remains shaded until about 10:30-11 AM in winter. They have not done so well here. At our previous residence, I had good success with L. radiata in a small bed (north facing again) in Asian jasmine. Those bloomed very nicely the season before we moved. I will be covering my new production plots with custom row crop covers to encourage heat buildup during the winter and discourage frost. J.E. Shields wrote: > HI Kelly and Jim W., > > I got Lycoris radiata radiata a couple years ago from Rodney Barton in > Texas. I planted these outdoors in the ground in three different > spots. One clump died the first winter. The others are alive and > have bloomed twice. As I recall, the show up in October here. > > Rodney also sent me some Rhodophiala bifida at the same time, and they > have survived outdoors in one place, but died in another. They should > bloom just before the radiata do here. > > Kelly, try them in the ground, but in several different spots. You > ought to find at least one place where they do well year-round. > > My first Colchicum is in bloom -- C. autumnale. C. cilicicum usually > is first, but not this year. > > Regards, > Jim Shields > in central Indiana > > > At 09:13 AM 9/6/2003 -0500, Kelly Irvin wrote: > >> Mine has turned the expected color, too. A number of my fall foliage >> species and hybrids are taking off now. The L. aurea var. aurea you >> sold me is about to bloom, again about 2 weeks ahead of my var. >> surgens like last season. The latter are only just now showing "signs". >> >> When do you expect your L. radiata var. radiata to bloom? I know in >> zone 7, you can pretty much mark August 31st, give or take, on your >> calendar, so I am guessing mid-September here. I've not had much luck >> with bloom on these so far, except in pots. > > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From mail@odysseybulbs.com Sat Sep 6 11:16:16 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030906113155.0248a8d0@pop.earthlink.net> From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Lycoris, Rhodophiala, and Colchicum. Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 11:40:52 -0400 If your colchicums are only beginning to bloom, Jim, you obviously need to augment your collection . C. bivonae 'Apollo' has been in flower for 2 weeks, with C. bivonae hybrids such as 'Princess Astrid' following close on its heels (many hybrids debut in the last week of August or so). Colchicum speciosum 'Ordu' is also well into bloom. If you were able to grow C. graecum (which I would think would be a possibility), your colchicum season would start in early August (other species reputably flower even earlier, but I cannot personally attest to this). Russell At 09:36 AM 9/6/2003 -0500, you wrote: >My first Colchicum is in bloom -- C. autumnale. C. cilicicum usually is >first, but not this year. > >Regards, >Jim Shields >in central Indiana Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs 8984 Meadow Lane, Berrien Springs, Michigan 49103 269-471-4642 www.odysseybulbs.com From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Sep 6 18:11:32 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Ungernia post script and question. Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 11:17:19 -0500 >Your observation about the basal plate is quite interesting. Can you >tell if the tissue is living? Are you suggesting bulblets or some >kind of runners may form off of them for asexual propagation? It's a >very curious observation. Dear All; Hard to tell from a very small sample, but an article on the genus shows a branched 'understem' with bulbs only at the end. Mine looked pretty 'dead', but I suppose that this could produce a new 'branch' (i.e. 'bulbs') from a dormant bud in each node. - if there actually are and they should be. If I were really brave, I'd cut this off and plant it separately to encourage these buds to break and produce new bulbs. I just don't know all that much about these oddities. I've never seen this in Lycoris or any other bulb. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Sep 6 18:11:38 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Lycoris radiata radiata Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 11:24:55 -0500 > >When do you expect your L. radiata var. radiata to bloom? I know in >zone 7, you can pretty much mark August 31st, give or take, on your >calendar, so I am guessing mid-September here. I've not had much >luck with bloom on these so far, except in pots. Dear Kelly and Jim; I have a couple different L. rad. rad. The best is from a garden here in KC were they have grown for decades. Hardy and blooms each year. They are about the last to bloom- October for sure. Incidentally there is a literature reference to L. radiata 'Alba", but I wonder if this isn't confused with some other Lycoris species like L. albiflora (which isn't very hardy here and taller) or L. houdyshelli - which looks a lot like L. radiata, but has just begun to put up spikes and may have one or two open flowers. Both of these are pure white. I have seen L. radiata in the wild and it was on the edge of dense woods and near flowing streams. So it surely gets dense shade at some time of the day as the sun moves and stay pretty wet most of the year. Blooming in late August is a pretty good idea that the stream is not one that dries up in summer. It might even get occasional flooding. I have seen them growing in LA in mostly full sun. Mine are under a silver maple (ugh), but at the south edge and get quite a bit of sun. L. houdyshelli is in a more densely shaded spot. best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jglatt@ptd.net Sat Sep 6 17:25:56 2003 Message-Id: <000301c374be$c7afc7a0$a621bacc@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: mystery baby bulbs Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:35:13 -0400 So here I am on a nice sunny day top-dressing bulb pots in the greenhouse. As I'm scooping off the played-out dirt from a pot of Lycoris aurea (and they do work their way down to the bottom, don't they!) I'm finding all these baby bulbs. No, not offsets from the lycoris. About the size of a large pea, and just as round as a pea, with a tiny little, just barely noticeable point or tip at the top (and a rather similar bump at the bottom.) Very firm, not in the least soft or flabby. The tunic (I didn't scrape or scratch but it looks like a covering) is a dull gray on most of them. A couple are whitish, and one had a rose-pink spot. There were 42 of them, so clearly they are the progeny of some bulb that reproduces quite easily. Of course I didn't discard them - they are now nicely lined out in a half-flat with a label that has a big "?" for identification. I'm sure they're not cyclamen or freesias. There were pots of various lachenalia in the same general bench area, also nerines, rhodophiala, veltheimia. But none of those seem quite right. Allium neapolitanum? I hope not, one pot is sufficient. To continue the quandary, the adjacent pot of Lycoris albiflora had no little visitors, nor did any other pot I was messing around with. Anyone care to make a guess - informed, educated, or just a random stab - at what they might be? If you are correct - and who knows when they might bloom - I'll give you some. In fact, there are enough that next year I may just send some to the BX. Are unknowns allowed as BX material? TIA. Judy From jshields104@insightbb.com Sat Sep 6 18:01:54 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030906165824.00b1be00@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Lycoris, Rhodophiala, and Colchicum. Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 17:01:53 -0500 Russell, Can you supply some of these bulbs next summer? I might be interested in trying some of them. Our season is probably late this year because the weather was cold and wet well into June this past spring. I guess my C. byzantinum usually start in early to mid August, and they are not up at all yet. Maybe our wet summer was too much of a good thing for some of them. Regards, Jim At 11:40 AM 9/6/2003 -0400, you wrote: >If your colchicums are only beginning to bloom, Jim, you obviously need to >augment your collection . C. bivonae 'Apollo' has been in flower >for 2 weeks, with C. bivonae hybrids such as 'Princess Astrid' following >close on its heels (many hybrids debut in the last week of August or >so). Colchicum speciosum 'Ordu' is also well into bloom. If you were >able to grow C. graecum (which I would think would be a possibility), your >colchicum season would start in early August (other species reputably >flower even earlier, but I cannot personally attest to this). > >Russell > >At 09:36 AM 9/6/2003 -0500, you wrote: >>My first Colchicum is in bloom -- C. autumnale. C. cilicicum usually is >>first, but not this year. >> >>Regards, >>Jim Shields >>in central Indiana > >Russell Stafford >Odyssey Bulbs >8984 Meadow Lane, Berrien Springs, Michigan 49103 >269-471-4642 >www.odysseybulbs.com > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From boutin@goldrush.com Sat Sep 6 18:35:08 2003 Message-Id: <017d01c374c8$19fba7f0$4b3d7143@boutin> From: "boutin" Subject: Ungernia and "basal plate stems". Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 15:41:30 -0700 Dear Jim and all, An unusual thick "basal plate stem" occurs in Ledebouria viscosa. And in some L. socialis forms I've examined, as the "bulb scales" wither they expose a thin rhizome-like stem which functions for rooting and for production of some offset bulbils. There appears to not be a plate-like basal plate in L. socialis, at least in the forms I've dissected. The growing center is elongate like a regular stem, extending way into the "bulb" of clasping succulent leaf bases. If it doesn't have a basal plate is it a bulb? Fred Boutin Tuolumne, CA > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From v_pascal@club-internet.fr Sat Sep 6 20:08:13 2003 Message-Id: <019c01c374d3$229de340$0d342cd5@bh28300186> From: "Pascal Vigneron" Subject: Ungernia post script and question. Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 01:22:06 +0200 Hi Jim and all, Thank to explain this! Now I understand the Latin description of the bulbs in the Flora Iranica: "Bulbus. in collum longum productis." Now that makes sense. Very interesting. The image of a 'bulb tree' look a good model to understand certain aspect of what is a bulbous plant. The only amaryllid I know with long basal plate is old Clivia. But as it don't make real bulb, the look is different. Last year, I was surprised because the basal plate of my Ismene longipetala was 1 or 1,5 cm long. But now I see that was not really long! Regards, Pascal Vigneron, France >... Each year as more bulb scales are added > and old ones rot away, the basal plate does not deteriorate. This > means that as the bulb ages these basal plates form an under-bulb > 'stem' the diameter of the plate and up to a couple of inches in > length sort of like a pencil stub coming out of the bottom of the > bulb, but consisting of 'woody' basal plates stacked on top of one > another. ... From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Sat Sep 6 21:29:01 2003 Message-Id: <3F5A89D4.1080504@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: mystery baby bulbs Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 20:28:52 -0500 Judy: Might the Lycoris aurea have produced seed last year that fell into the pot? You would probably see leaf emergence within the next couple of weeks if these are young L. aurea. Judy Glattstein wrote: >I'm finding all >these baby bulbs. No, not offsets from the lycoris. About the size of a >large pea, and just as round as a pea, with a tiny little, just barely >noticeable point or tip at the top (and a rather similar bump at the >bottom.) Very firm, not in the least soft or flabby. > -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From onager@midtown.net Sat Sep 6 21:37:43 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030906182542.01769718@pop3.midtown.net> From: Joyce Miller Subject: Amaryllis belladonna blanda Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 18:30:05 -0700 Hi all, The UC/Berkeley garden shop was offering Amaryllis belladonna blanda when I passed through the other day. Lovely bulb. The one I bought is opening its flowers now, all 13 of them. The individual flowers are white with a yellow center. They are smaller than the A.b. Bidwell's that I have, but the number of flowers makes up for any lack in size. Lovely. I was told it is a new introduction. Kind regards, Joyce Miller, Sacramento, CA, USA USDA Zone 9A Responses may be sent to: mailto:onager@midtown.net From onager@midtown.net Sat Sep 6 21:37:46 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030906183006.0175ade8@pop3.midtown.net> From: Joyce Miller Subject: Phaedranessa culture Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 18:36:44 -0700 Dear All, I have several species of Phaedranessa bulbs. The only one I am sure of the ID is the one I bought from Telos Rare Bulbs and it blooms fairly well. Others I have raised from seed have never bloomed. I recall reading Phaedranessa requires a drought period. Can anyone tell me when to withhold water and for how long a period? I can never get a clear sense of dormancy because when the mother bulb is dormant, the daughter offset is growing. What to do? Kind regards, Joyce Miller Joyce E. Miller mailto:onager@midtown.net Zone USDA 9A Summer highs 100+degrees F for several to many days. Winter lows 27 degrees F From gatogordo@webtv.net Sun Sep 7 09:21:54 2003 Message-Id: <5128-3F5B30EC-887@storefull-2313.public.lawson.webtv.net> From: gatogordo@webtv.net (Chato Massey) Subject: Iris 'Paltec' Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 08:21:48 -0500 (CDT) Hi All, A rhizome of Iris Paltec has been given to me. This is the hybrid from the bearded iris Pallida and Iris Tectorum. What I don't know is whether to grow it as a bearded (full sun, alkalinePh) or a tectorum (sun to shade, slightly acid). The only thing I know is that Paltec likes to be very well-drained and has the same water requirements as the bearded iris. I would greatly appreciate information about the best growing conditions for this unusual iris. Thank you, Theresa Massey Austin, TX, Z 8B 20-110F, 30" annual rainfall From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun Sep 7 09:54:54 2003 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Phaedranassa, etc. Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 13:51:40 +0000 Hi Joyce: It is common that seedlings try to make use of a long season of growth. This is, of course, to your advantage. So, try to grow the seedlings for as long as possible without forcing them into dormancy: if conditions are warm and water is available, they will remain green (and grow fatter). Their internal "clock" will let them know when to go dormant and start other processes involved with "adult age". Mature bulbs, those capable of flowering, are winter dormant and are very regular on this. In fact, Phaedranassas are very easy provided root run, warmth and adequate temperatures while dormant. I am always surprised that so few people grow them. Provided one can find healthy material they are extremely long lived and flower unfailingly every year (if dry winter dormant). Best regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.yupimsn.com/ From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun Sep 7 19:02:20 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Ungernia stuff Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 08:53:57 -0500 Dear All; I really don't know how much or how long my description of a bulb tree really fits. I have seen these branches, and drawings of branched clumps, but I suppose there must be some rotting of old 'trunks and bulbs can keep growing up all the time, but must pull themselves down.Right? Anyway it is very interesting se that this occurs to a degree at least in other bulbs. We usually don't pay too much attention to what comes out of the bottom of the bulbs, but the top! Me too-still waiting for blooms and multiplication. I do not pretend to understand this genus at all!! Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun Sep 7 10:08:16 2003 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: mystery baby bulbs Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 14:04:24 +0000 And Hi Joyce: A dark tunic would indicate an amaryllid in which case Hippeastrum petiolatum or some of the Cyrtanthi would be suspect. A clear tunic (and garllic smell?) would point to Allium triquetrum and perhaps neapolitanum. A pinkish shade to the tunics would indicate Allium roseum. A pest form of this latter has come from San Francisco in the past and it had a "mild" virus that rapidly spread to neighboring plants. All the best Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.yupimsn.com/ From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Sep 7 11:23:38 2003 Message-Id: <3F5B4D75.5060300@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: fall bloomers Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 11:23:33 -0400 A series of late blooming bulbs. The colchicums are breaking ground but not completely up and open yet. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Allium_senescens_glaucum2.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Cyclamen_hederafolium.JPG Seed from Jack Elliott http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Lycoris_sprengeri_&_guest_30.JPG Is this a pollinator? http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Lycoris_sprengeri_4.JPG Arnold New Jersey Cooling off From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun Sep 7 19:02:35 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: fall bloomers Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:26:49 -0500 Dear Arnold; Thanks for reminding me about fall blooming Allium and Cyclamen. I am doing a radio call in show for Louisville KY tomorrow on fall blooming bulbs (mostly because of Lycoris interest), but will mention a few other common ones like Colchicum, Sternbergia, Fall crocus etc. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From plants_man@bigpond.com Sun Sep 7 17:33:18 2003 Message-Id: <00de01c37588$38a38b30$6bfa8690@userbwbb7lkmiq> From: Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan Subject: Seeds Available Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 07:37:18 +1000 Greetings, I have some Clivia complex hybrid seed becoming available in December 2003/Jan 2004 If you would like to know more please contact me privately at plants_man@bigpond.com and I will email you the details. Best wishes, Dash. Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan, Mainly Amaryllids Garden, P O Box 173, Barnawartha,Victoria,3688, Australia. +61 02 60267377 Visit my web site @ www.users.bigpond.com/plants_man/Home.htm Email the Australian Bulb Association at: support@ausbulbs.org ABA Web Sites: http://www.ausbulbs.org Checkout http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/ From peter_kaye2002@yahoo.co.uk Mon Sep 8 05:27:36 2003 Message-Id: <20030908092735.27115.qmail@web60006.mail.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Peter=20Kaye?= Subject: Ungernia and "basal plate stems". Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:27:35 +0100 (BST) Hello all, I once had two Crinum acaule with basal plates of 14cm length. I dissected one when the bulb succumbed to rot and found that the basal plate tissue was alive right down to the base. Peter --------------------------------- Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo!Messenger From dells@voicenet.com Mon Sep 8 07:10:00 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Special seed offer to the Pacific Bulb Society List Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 07:12:14 -0400 Dear All, Cameron and Rhoda McMasters of the Croft Nursery in South Africa have generously donated fresh seed of Brunsvigia grandiflora which they would like to share with ALL of the members of this list, not just PBS members. Brunsvigia seed is short-lived and may already have sprouted when it gets to the US. It could be a while before the seed arrives, but if you would like to have some please reply to me at dells@voicenet.com, and I will send you the seed as soon as it arrives so that you can sow it asap. We ask a donation of $2/pkt to cover shipping and handling. Please be sure to send your snail mail address. Best regards, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From dells@voicenet.com Mon Sep 8 07:36:52 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 41 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 07:39:24 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 41" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Cynthia Mueller: SEED: 1. Crinum erubescens?: has very glossy, green, healthy leaves untroubled by insects or disease, wine-tinged stalks of white flowers, (stalks, not flowers, are wine-tinged) and spreads via runners. It can grow in rather dry flower beds - just enough water to carry chrysanthemums or smaller roses, for example. 2. Crinum americanum has no wine-tinged stain on the stalks, leaves are a little more upright, lighter green, but still tough enough to live out in what I would call a rather dry flower bed, too. 3. Hesperaloe parviflora: "Red Yucca"; "Female: yellow, may be crossed with coral-pink variety growing nearby. Plant in pre-moistened soil in deep containers, immediately. Keep in cold frame till spring. Seeds sprout over a period of time." From Lynn Makela: "BULBLETS" 4. Oxalis purpurea 'Garnet' 5. Oxalis purpurea 'Ken Aslet', yellow 6. Oxalis versicolor 'Candy Cane' 7. Oxalis imbricata SEED: 8. Zephyranthes primulina 9. Zephyranthes macrosiphon 10. Zephyranthes reginae 'Valles Yellow' From Cathy Craig: 11. Bulbs of Habranthus robustus From Mark Mazer: Bulbs/corms: 12. Calochortus clavatus var clavatus 13. Calochortus striatus 14. Tritonia crocata 15. Calochortus kennedyi var kennedyi 16. Calochortus nudus 17. Lachenalia unifolia 18. Biarum dispar 19. Ixia rapunculoides 20. Wurmbea spicata 21. Lachenalia bulbifera 22. Babiana ringens 23. Narcissus bulbicodium 24. Babiana ambigua 25. Moraea contorta (Gynandriris anomala) Thank you, Cynthia, Lynn, Cathy, and Mark !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Mon Sep 8 13:58:26 2003 Message-Id: <3F5CC179.581F7F27@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Couple of questions Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:50:49 -0700 Dear All; I noticed that my Clivia miniata is again in flower, this just a few months after the last flowers, in late June early July. Thus they have provided blooms for some 10 months of a year. Normally they commence flowering in November and continue through the winter and spring 'till June. Why do some bulbs like to be pot-bound for years? Are there chemical changes that are brought about by being pot-bound that induce flowering and for long periods of time? It is obvious there is little nutrient left in the soil, but they apparently appreciate feedings of Miracle-Gro. I moved a couple of large clumps to an open border in the shade. This some 2 years ago, I did not split the clumps, they still have not flowered yet those in containers continue to flower and seemingly produce more flowers each year, starting earlier and continuing later. I see no reason to move any of these or even repot them. One clump I divided and put them very close together in another pot, they flowered the same year. I just wonder why this is. Foliage is good, of those that are pot bound, seemingly becoming wider with the years, 4+ inches wide being common, some even much wider and very few narrow leaves. Those in the border are now a darker green, little change is width, but no flowers at all. Possibly those remaining in the pots enjoy a higher light intensity, can intensity of light, note not direct sunlight, contribute to the flowering as well as being pot- bound? I have noticed plantings of Clivia miniata in very good light, dappled shade might be the good description, in South Africa flowering well but the foliage was not attractive. I refer to Brenthurst, a fine garden in Johannesburg. The variation in color of the flowers in large plantings was considerable, from deep red to rose to pink to hints of yellow, I attribute this to natural crossing between the plants. Cheers, John E. Bryan From jnj@spamcop.net Mon Sep 8 21:37:18 2003 Message-Id: <004601c37672$c4bb3ba0$4500170a@jnj> From: "James Nerlinger, Jr." Subject: BULBS! Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 21:36:19 -0400 Ok, so I now have this 10 x 30 foot section of yard, see -- I covered it with newspaper and a solid 3-4 inches of cypress mulch about a month and a half ago so any weeds or grass growing there is pretty much history. :) There's a nice sized crabapple in the middle of the bed as well as ample trees in the yard that shade the area well (all deciduous by the way -- a redbud, black walnut, couple of maples). I have a couple of roses along the back edge (big white stone wall that is a foundation for the neighbor's house) and peonies come up in the center strip, but that's it -- nothing else grows in this area right now. My goal, my mission in life -- to fill the area with bulbs. :) Here's the catch -- in late winter and early spring, this area gets lots of sun starting with mid to late afternoon. By mid spring when everything has leafed out it gets less but still does ok -- by late spring when the black walnut leafs out it will get dappled afternoon sun and that's it. By late summer the pattern begins to reverse itself as the black walnut loses its leaves (to give an idea, the tree is pretty much bare already). I would like to come up with a planting scheme that will give me a variety of interest in this bed. Some early bloomers through to late bloomers. I've no problem with foliage (I plan on putting some hosta in there as well) but I'd really like to see something that will attract butterflies, give some much needed color, and so forth. The full 30' back of the bed is bordered by my neighbor's stone wall foundation. This is further painted white. The entire front yard is in and of itself a microclime but this wall adds to that effect for the obvious reasons and will benefit the bed. So, I'm looking for some suggestions on what to put in the bed and how to arrange them. We're in USDA Plant Hardiness Zone 6A, SW Ohio -- average winter temps get down to right about zero with an occasional negative dip as low as -10. James From arnold@nj.rr.com Mon Sep 8 21:55:14 2003 Message-Id: <3F5D3301.7040906@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: BULBS! Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 21:55:13 -0400 James; I have a question and then a suggestion. But first this: "It has been suspected, for hundreds of years, that the black walnut can be detrimental to other plants growing around it. Juglone is the principal allelopathic chemical that is responsible for the inhibition of growth and the death of some species that grow within close proximity to the black walnut. Not all plants are affected by juglone. Juglone is released by the roots of the plant, but it is not very soluble in water and doesn't travel far in the soil. Some examples of plants that may be affected are tomatoes, black alders, alfalfa, apple trees, corns, beans, potatoes and many others. Juglone is also released from decaying roots and may remain active in the soil for several years after walnut trees have been removed. The physiological action of juglone and its allelopathic effects are not well understood. Research has shown that juglone may alter the normal oxygen uptake of mitochondria and may also impair photosynthesis which would lead to decreased growth rates of the effected plants." So once you get past the juglone, I planted 2500 daffodils under european beech trees. The bulbs have flourished and multiplied. they flower ( planted three varieties) for about six weeks and the foliage gets a chance to ripen prior to the beeches leafing out. The shade under the beeches is very heavy. It was quite a task planting the bulbs with digging through the tree roots and the ivy that covers the area under the trees. A very non bulb person suggested I plant three varieties that flower early mid and late season. I have February Gold, Pueblo and Thalia nd the show is great. Arnold New Jersey From Blee811@aol.com Mon Sep 8 22:50:11 2003 Message-Id: <32.3da825b4.2c8e99df@aol.com> From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: BULBS! Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 22:50:07 EDT In a message dated 9/8/2003 9:37:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, jnj@infobin.org writes: > There's a nice sized crabapple in the middle of the bed as well as ample > trees in the yard that shade the area well (all deciduous by the way -- a > redbud, black walnut, couple of maples). I have a couple of roses along the > back edge (big white stone wall that is a foundation for the neighbor's > house) and peonies come up in the center strip, but that's it -- nothing > else grows in this area right now. I have a crabapple in the middle of a daffodil bed. I am losing daffodils in a pattern moving out from the trunk of the crabapple. I think it may be starving the bulbs, as I'm not aware of any toxins from this tree. The black walnut is another matter. I've lost daffodils planted directly under black walnut trees. I too James am in SW Ohio. Bill Lee From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Mon Sep 8 22:56:59 2003 Message-Id: <3F5D4170.1000706@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: BULBS! Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 21:56:48 -0500 I've seen true lilies growing under black walnuts. I don't know how anything else would do, but, if you like hummingbirds, they love my Lycoris (what else do you expect me to talk about anyway??!!) If Lycoris can stand that nasty chemical, they thrive in deciduous shade, plus you can come up with all sorts of colors, plant heights and blooming seasons. We've all read Jim W.'s remarks to this effect many times. I know grasses can't handle the chemical from black walnut. Arnold Trachtenberg wrote: > James; > > I have a question and then a suggestion. But first this: > > "It has been suspected, for hundreds of years, that the black walnut > can be detrimental to other plants growing around it. Juglone is the > principal allelopathic chemical that is responsible for the inhibition > of growth and the death of some species that grow within close > proximity to the black walnut. Not all plants are affected by juglone. -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From dells@voicenet.com Tue Sep 9 06:40:24 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Message replies Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 06:43:32 -0400 Dear All, When you respond to my postings of BX offerings please be sure to write to my personal address instead of the PBS list. I have been hitting the reply button too and know how easy it is to do. BTW I did receive your order, Carolyn Craft, but not one from you, Pat Brooks. My mesages to Pat keep bouncing back. Best, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From dells@voicenet.com Tue Sep 9 06:42:11 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 41 CLOSED Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 06:45:19 -0400 Dear All, Great response!! But I still haven't sent out all of the packages for BX 40. So please be patient. Hope to have it all done after the next weekend. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Sep 9 13:16:38 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030909100248.00b730e8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Fall bloom Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:15:27 -0700 I was surprised to find, among the many e-mails waiting when I returned from a long weekend in California, mention by Russell Stafford in Michigan of certain Colchicum cultivars blooming in early August. They never do that here in Oregon. Some of those Russell named are just beginning to flower now in mid-September, and others I don't expect to see until October. Perhaps his are responding to summer water? Yet even in a border that gets sprinkled weekly here, 'Nancy Lindsay' ("C. pannonicum") is just opening now, and C. speciosum 'Album' is not yet apparent. After an unusually hot, dry summer, the colchicums in flower look as usual, but Cyclamen hederifolium looks a bit unhappy; it is flowering as usual, but the flowers are not as "plump" as I'd expect. The first rain since the beginning of July fell yesterday, though, so I hope they will fatten up, and the fall crocuses will start soon. Scilla autumnalis is already done in the bulb frame. While in California I inspected the bulb plantings I made last fall in my brother's garden in the coastal hills near Monterey. The colchicums there look wonderful, vividly colored and larger-flowered than the same clones here. I added some Sternbergia bulbs and some tender bulbs I'd been keeping in my solarium. They're putting night-scented Gladiolus tristis in a large pot to place on their pool deck while it's in flower, for the enjoyment of evening visitors (which anyone with a pool gets plenty of). I also planted some Cyclamen graecum, and tucked Ornithogalum reverchonii into the side of a steep berm inhabited by a grand Joshua tree (Yucca brevifolia). I forgot to bring Anemone palmata (I still have some rhizomes available) but did install Hyacinthoides reverchonii, a Spanish "bluebell" that should romp away in that climate. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From dells@voicenet.com Tue Sep 9 13:47:16 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: TOW: Bulbs with surprising hardiness Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:49:23 -0400 Dear All, Since Mary Sue is away, I volunteered to introduce the topic for this week. It was suggested by Robert Parker. Please share your experiences with growing bulbs which are reported to be tender in your area but which you have found to survive better than expected. I have one such experience to share. Several years ago when Oxalis began to develop as a hot item on the BX's, I acquired several varieties from Uli Urban in Germany. One, whose name escapes me now, was a large pink one with relatively big leaves and glossy flowers. It bloomed for me indoors that first year and continued to produce flowers and to grow bigger when I put its pot outdoors for the summer. When autumn came, I needed to thin out my collection of potted plants, as usual, so that my indoor space could accommodate everything. I carry out this process of elimination by practicing selective neglect. In the case of this oxalis, I dumped the pot into a bin of soil for recycling. That bin remains outside throughout our Zone 6 winter when we usually experience hard freezes. Most oxalis are not fond of freezing weather, so I expected to lose that one. When spring came and the soil bin had almost thawed, I dipped some soil out as I was potting up some things. Much to my amazement, there were oxalis bulblets in there which had not turned to mush. Still, I thought, "The trauma of freezing will kill them eventually." So when oxalis leaves appeared in the large planting barrel where the recycled soil ended up, I was delighted. The plants grew to be quite large and bloomed most of the summer. Alas, the next winter was much harsher, and they did not survive. Has any of you had a similar experience with bulbs or companion plants which have survived against the odds? Best wishes, Dell From jshields104@insightbb.com Tue Sep 9 16:20:29 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030909125503.02780930@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: BULBS! Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:09:36 -0500 Hi James, I have irises doing well under black walnut, and lots of daylilies (Hemerocallis) in beds under Black Walnut. Try also the hardy Gladiolus like byzantinus, illyricus, italicus, and imbricatus. I also suggest trying Lycoris as preached by Jim Waddick! I don't have any under walnuts, however, so I don't know if they are affected by the secreted alkaloids. There is a huge long list of things you can try: Arisaema, Anemone, Anemonella thalictroides; Brodiaea californica; Claytonia virginica; Corydalis solida; Dicentra canadensis, D. cucullaria, and D. spectabilis; Dichelostemma congestum; Erythronium of all sorts; Fritillaria meleagris; Galanthus elwesii, nivalis, and woronowii; countless types of Narcissus (I have some in a bed under a black walnut); Polygonatum biflorum, P. odoratum variegatum; Sternbergia lutea; Triteleia ixiodes scabra, laxa 'Queen Fabiola', bridgesii; Trillium species of all sorts. I would not bother with tulips or Dutch hyacinths. Jim Shields in central Indiana At 09:36 PM 9/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Ok, so I now have this 10 x 30 foot section of yard, see -- I covered it >with newspaper and a solid 3-4 inches of cypress mulch about a month and a >half ago so any weeds or grass growing there is pretty much history. :) > >There's a nice sized crabapple in the middle of the bed as well as ample >trees in the yard that shade the area well (all deciduous by the way -- a >redbud, black walnut, couple of maples). I have a couple of roses along the >back edge (big white stone wall that is a foundation for the neighbor's >house) and peonies come up in the center strip, but that's it -- nothing >else grows in this area right now. > >My goal, my mission in life -- to fill the area with bulbs. :) Here's the >catch -- in late winter and early spring, this area gets lots of sun >starting with mid to late afternoon. By mid spring when everything has >leafed out it gets less but still does ok -- by late spring when the black >walnut leafs out it will get dappled afternoon sun and that's it. By late >summer the pattern begins to reverse itself as the black walnut loses its >leaves (to give an idea, the tree is pretty much bare already). > >I would like to come up with a planting scheme that will give me a variety >of interest in this bed. Some early bloomers through to late bloomers. >I've no problem with foliage (I plan on putting some hosta in there as well) >but I'd really like to see something that will attract butterflies, give >some much needed color, and so forth. > >The full 30' back of the bed is bordered by my neighbor's stone wall >foundation. This is further painted white. The entire front yard is in and >of itself a microclime but this wall adds to that effect for the obvious >reasons and will benefit the bed. > >So, I'm looking for some suggestions on what to put in the bed and how to >arrange them. We're in USDA Plant Hardiness Zone 6A, SW Ohio -- average >winter temps get down to right about zero with an occasional negative dip as >low as -10. > >James ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From jnj@spamcop.net Tue Sep 9 16:07:17 2003 Message-Id: <00d401c3770d$f271f2a0$4500170a@jnj> From: "Noctaire" Subject: BULBS! Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:07:07 -0400 Gang -- Thanks for all of the suggestions for under the black walnut, but the bed and the black walnut are separated by a concrete sidewalk as well as distance -- in fact, only a small portion of the bed is even under the drip line. The tree just happens to be large enough that it shades the area. Since I planted the tree as a sapling (brought it home from school on Arbor Day about 25 years ago believe it or not) I am all too aware of the wonders of juglone. :) Some pics that might help out a bit.... This is a pic of the front of the house taken a couple of years back: http://garden.infobin.org/Images/Front%20Trees%20View.jpg This is a pic from 2000 that shows how the house looked in 1993 and how it looked in 2000. The trees over the red car (to it's front as you view the picture) had to be removed -- they were dropping some truly nasty sap and had grown into the power lines. :( We're STILL working on getting something around the driveway like shrubs and a small tree to grow at the front. http://garden.infobin.org/2000/images/House-2000.jpg In these pictures, the Black Walnut sits just to the left of the gate. For the best overall view of the front yard (including the neighbor's wall and such) give this link a look: http://garden.infobin.org/2000/Yards.htm This is also a couple of years old, but not much has changed (yeah, I've been a bit lazy -- I've focused on other tasks and then fell into a black hole over some heart problems I've been having for the last year and half to two years (and am still battling)). The bed is the small strip on the opposite side of the sidewalk -- youc an see the neighbor's white stone wall. The whole area is a great little microclime as it's only facing area is to the street. Noc. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Sep 9 22:12:31 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030909132509.00b71ae0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: TOW: Bulbs with surprising hardiness Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:33:39 -0700 Just off the top of my head, here are some bulbs (and other geophytes) that have done well in the garden here against expectations of their hardiness. My garden is nominally USDA Zone 7 (winter minimum zero Fahrenheit/minus 16 C), but plants rated Zone 7 for the eastern part of North America rarely survive a normal winter here, with temperatures in the mid-teens F. Scilla verna Muscari muscarimi Muscari macrocarpum Iris unguicularis Fritillaria persica Narcissus triandrus Crocus laevigatus Crocus ochroleucus Cyclamen graecum I will be trying more this year, even some small Narcissus species. In my bulb frames I grow many reputedly tender species, even though temperatures inside the frames can easily descend to the mid-20s F on cold nights. I've learned over the years that pushing the hardiness limit in this way causes the plants to appear much more in character, whereas in the solarium/greenhouse that is frost-free, they often elongate despite receiving as much light as in the frames, do not flower so well, and get pests and diseases. I have lost a few winter-growers from South Africa and North Africa in the frames, but quite a few plants from those areas flourish there, even some with fleshy winter foliage like Asphodelus acaulis. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From katylesser@hotmail.com Tue Sep 9 17:00:43 2003 Message-Id: From: "Katherine Lesser" Subject: TOW: Bulbs with surprising hardiness Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 17:00:26 -0400 i put a large oxalis in the ground this spring to see how it would fare in my garden. it's gotten quite large, and now that i've read your comments about wintering one over, i'm going to try it. here in northern vermont it gets very cold and i don't have much hope it will make it, but i'll give it a good shot of mulch and see what happens. _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Tue Sep 9 18:01:08 2003 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476B97531@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: TOW: Bulbs with surprising hardiness Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:01:11 -0500 Hi All, One of the many pleasures of being in the plant business is discovering plants that survive where the references or experts say they won't. I was pleasantly surprised that one of the commercial cultivars of Hippeastrum behaved as a perennial in Ft. Worth, Texas, zone 7. Can't recall the cultivar name, it was red flowered and large. The plantings were made in the early 80's and were still flowering well when I left later in the decade (despite some really nasty winter weather). We found Eucomis autumnalis and two cultivars of Zantedeschia from New Zealand survived in St. Louis, zone 6, in the Bulb Garden in the early 90's. The Zantedeschias were shared around with a number of other botanic gardens and I hope they still have them; those in St. Louis were eventually lost. I've been very excited to find Alstromeria 'Sarah' to be hardy in Chicago, zone 5. Shortly after starting work at CBG I discovered some really impressive clumps of Lycoris sanguinea in flower in one of our gardens. It had been reported dead due to lack of winter hardiness some 7 years earlier ... guess the Lycoris didn't get copied on the memo reporting its demise. Following up on the find of L. sanguinea and later L. sprengeri where they shouldn't be, an evaluation of Lycoris from Jim Waddick was initiated 4 years ago and we have found all but radiata ssp. radiata to be hardy in Chicago as well. Iris iberica collected as seeds in Republic of Georgia has grown incredibly well in containers, filling to the edges 5" square pots with healthy rhizomes and foliage. This is one of the taxa that are supposed to be almost impossible to keep alive in cultivation. In a similar fashion, Iris iberica ssp. elegantissima produced some really spectacular blooms this spring and the rhizomes divided up to create additional plants. The other bulbs collected in Republic of Georgia, despite the nay-saying of some of the local pundits, have survived and thrived despite some really harsh winters and monsoonal summers. Yes, from time to time I do let my guard down and a smile crosses my face when I am told or read a reference that plainly states these plants should not be alive. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org From john@johnlonsdale.net Tue Sep 9 18:27:29 2003 Message-Id: <000801c37721$8c0ec470$6401a8c0@John> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: Fall bloom Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:27:26 -0400 "I was surprised to find, among the many e-mails waiting when I returned from a long weekend in California, mention by Russell Stafford in Michigan of certain Colchicum cultivars blooming in early August. They never do that here in Oregon. Some of those Russell named are just beginning to flower now in mid-September, and others I don't expect to see until October. Perhaps his are responding to summer water? Yet even in a border that gets sprinkled weekly here, 'Nancy Lindsay' ("C. pannonicum") is just opening now, and C. speciosum 'Album' is not yet apparent. They never do that here in SE Pa. either. I don't think it is a response to watering directly, rather a response to falling temperatures, particularly at night. My cyclamen in pots haven't had a drop of water for the best part of three months but the significant drop in night-time temperatures over the past 10 days or so has triggered a huge number of C. graecum into magnificent bloom/flower bud. This phenomenon may be exaggerated in this species, others react similarly but not so dramatically. I have just watered them for the first time. I think I have finally proved the point that C. graecum is happier and flowers MUCH better with damp roots but a warm dry tuber during dormancy. I put a lot of trays and pots onto damp sand when they went dormant, at which point they had no roots coming out of the bottom of the pots. I kept the sand just damp but allowed the 5" of compost to get very dry, and, going back to them this week found that during 'dormancy' all the tubers had made massive new root systems, some in excess of 10" long! I took some slides to illustrate this. The tubers are flowering like never before. I did the same thing two summers ago and got great results; storing the pots on a dry surface last summer resulted in very poor flowering. Colchicum macrophyllum is always the first colchicum to flower here, at its prime at the moment in a couple of spots in the garden. One of these areas is exposed to the weather so has gotten moisture (i.e. storms) for much of the past 3 weeks, the other area is in with my onco irises and so very dry in summer for 3 months. Both patches initiated flowering on the same day, moisture levels having varied considerably, but temperatures they encountered being very similar. One of the clones of Merendera pyrenaica is also up in the garden, and Scilla chinensis it at its best also. Lots to come - Colchicum speciosum album being one of the very last to flower, at least a month from now. J. Dr John T Lonsdale, 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 610 476 0428 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From mark@marksgardenplants.com Tue Sep 9 18:37:04 2003 Message-Id: <000501c37722$ddea7770$0e322ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Fall bloom Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 23:36:52 +0100 hi all Colchicum time is well under way here in N Ireland. C graecum is in full flower as are C autumnal and C speciosum 'Album'. I'll keep you posted as others appear. Mark N Ireland zone 8 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lonsdale" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 11:27 PM Subject: RE: [pbs] Fall bloom "I was surprised to find, among the many e-mails waiting when I returned from a long weekend in California, mention by Russell Stafford in Michigan of certain Colchicum cultivars blooming in early August. They never do that here in Oregon. Some of those Russell named are just beginning to flower now in mid-September, and others I don't expect to see until October. Perhaps his are responding to summer water? Yet even in a border that gets sprinkled weekly here, 'Nancy Lindsay' ("C. pannonicum") is just opening now, and C. speciosum 'Album' is not yet apparent. They never do that here in SE Pa. either. I don't think it is a response to watering directly, rather a response to falling temperatures, particularly at night. My cyclamen in pots haven't had a drop of water for the best part of three months but the significant drop in night-time temperatures over the past 10 days or so has triggered a huge number of C. graecum into magnificent bloom/flower bud. This phenomenon may be exaggerated in this species, others react similarly but not so dramatically. I have just watered them for the first time. I think I have finally proved the point that C. graecum is happier and flowers MUCH better with damp roots but a warm dry tuber during dormancy. I put a lot of trays and pots onto damp sand when they went dormant, at which point they had no roots coming out of the bottom of the pots. I kept the sand just damp but allowed the 5" of compost to get very dry, and, going back to them this week found that during 'dormancy' all the tubers had made massive new root systems, some in excess of 10" long! I took some slides to illustrate this. The tubers are flowering like never before. I did the same thing two summers ago and got great results; storing the pots on a dry surface last summer resulted in very poor flowering. Colchicum macrophyllum is always the first colchicum to flower here, at its prime at the moment in a couple of spots in the garden. One of these areas is exposed to the weather so has gotten moisture (i.e. storms) for much of the past 3 weeks, the other area is in with my onco irises and so very dry in summer for 3 months. Both patches initiated flowering on the same day, moisture levels having varied considerably, but temperatures they encountered being very similar. One of the clones of Merendera pyrenaica is also up in the garden, and Scilla chinensis it at its best also. Lots to come - Colchicum speciosum album being one of the very last to flower, at least a month from now. J. Dr John T Lonsdale, 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 610 476 0428 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From eagle85@flash.net Tue Sep 9 19:31:27 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: New image Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 16:21:31 -0700 I have added another pic. This one of Haemanthus coccineus. Note the beautiful, dark markings on the flower stem. Doug Westfall http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Haemanthus%20coccineus.jpg From cf018a3312@blueyonder.co.uk Tue Sep 9 19:54:55 2003 Message-Id: <001901c3772d$afaba040$7e89eb50@davidfen> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: New image Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 00:54:19 +0100 Hi Doug, There's a good habitat pic of Haemanthus coccineus at the Fernkloof Nature Reserve website, I've just been looking at it, and quite well marked. See. http://fernkloof.com/listplantsbyfamily.mv Actually the whole site is well worth a look and there's a few nice pics of species there that you see nowwhere else, especially some species Gladioli and Moraea. Best Wishes, Dave --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 02/09/03 From jshields104@insightbb.com Tue Sep 9 20:40:05 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030909192239.027498c0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: TOW: Bulbs with surprising hardiness Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:40:02 -0500 Hi all, Let me add today's 2 cents' worth of surprising survival. I saw a bit of bright red out beside the greenhouse where a lot of Chinese Lycoris species are growing. Planted in August, 1998, a small group of Lycoris radiata pumila have sent up a scape and are blooming! I had long since given them up for dead. The only other Lycoris still in bloom there are in a clump of L. caldwellii. I was at first amazed at how well Sternbergia lutea survives outdoors here; now of course I expect it to. Our expectations can be mis-directed by the poor quality of plant materials sometimes sold by large commercial outfits. I was convinced Corydalis solida and Fritillaria meleagris were not growable here in central Indiana, until Nina Lambert dug some fresh bulbs from her garden in Upstate New York and sent them to me. What a difference! They did very well here. Later I got very good quality stock of Corydalis solida 'G.P. Baker' and 'Beth Evans' from Don Hachenberry and from Gene Bush. Now I'm trying to spread them around here so I can build up my stock of them, too. Finally, after growing Brodiaea coronaria in a pot in the greenhouse and getting very little bloom, and grumbling because I did not think it worth the precious greenhouse benchtop space it took up, I planted the whole potful out in the rock garden in summer 2002. This summer, they bloomed abundantly! Whoever convinced me that B. coronaria was too tender for Indiana was apparently wrong. These bulbs were grown from seed from Ron Ratko, collected in the wild, his #NNS 97-37. Maybe Ron collected these seeds from a harsher, wetter locality than the usual California types grow in. Regards to all, Jim Shields in central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From DaveKarn@aol.com Tue Sep 9 21:17:57 2003 Message-Id: <118.289fd19c.2c8fd5c2@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: REPLY: [pbs] TOW: Bulbs with surprising hardiness Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:17:54 EDT Hello all ~ I grew L. squamigera and L. sprengeri in Minnesota for many years. And this in Zone 4a. squamigera always bloomed every August, but sprengeri never did for me. I now understand that the latter probably wanted considerable water over the summer months (it got only what fell on it from the occasional thunderstorm) but squamigera took whatever came its way in stride, including near total summer dryness. I don't recall where I got the squamigera (they are still back there and bloom each year) but the sprengeri came from Winterthur. Some of both are now here in Oregon and perform well each year -- would that I were able to develop a lycoris with flowers of the solid electric blue that marks these two as unique. Since MN has such a severe climate, being able to fool "Mother Nature" was always great fun. She would occasionally get even by allowing little snow to fall over the Winter with its well below zero temperatures and that would usually get the tenderer stuff, even under the mulch. Best, Dave Karnstedt Silverton, Oregon email: davekarn@aol.com USDA Zone 7-8 From dejager@bulbargence.com Wed Sep 10 04:50:05 2003 Message-Id: <3F5EE4BC.8060904@bulbargence.com> From: Lauw Dejager Subject: IBSA Symposium Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:45:48 +0200 Dear Rachel and fellow forum members, In spite of the lack of rain we saw a many species in flower. I just looked through my file of pictures taken during the 10 days I was there: including the species on the showbenches (30-40 species), nurseries over 30 species, Kirstenbosch (20 species) we saw flowering in the field at least 20-30 different species (Masonia, Gladiolus Hesperantha , Geissorhiza, Chasmanthe Watsonia, Aristea, Bobartia, Spiloxene, Lachenalia, Moraea, Satyricum, etc). Mary Sue will put up a wiki page (when she returns the 17/9) with all the pictures we took which will give a good idea of the variety of species we saw in flower (in spite of the lack of early winter rains) It has been a very rich experience to meet growers, to visit their nurseries and to visit the areas, to actually see the species growing in the wild. The mind boggles when thinking what it will be like when we will attend the next symposium and direct our visits more up northwest in the Sutherland, Nieuwoudtsville etc. A great thanks to the Indigenous Bulbgrowers assocation of South Africa (IBSA) for the warm welcome and tremendous effort to make this a most interesting event; I glad to hear that there will be a another occasion to meet the newly made friends. I am still puzzled (with a slight feeling of injustice) why all these beautiful plants grow so easily in often common places: road verges, rocks overhanging the rolling ocean waves. Still trying to figure out why we cannot grow here in France these masses of Lachenalias on neglected traffic islands!! (Another reason to go back andtry to find the clues). Greetings Lauw deJager, Bulb'Argence, France Rachel Saunders wrote: > In case anyone is interested, IBSA will probably be organising another > Symposium in 3 or 4 years time. Hopefully the rain will be better and > we will see more in the field. From mail@odysseybulbs.com Wed Sep 10 07:44:54 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030910074123.0246b040@pop.earthlink.net> From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Fall bloom Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:08:55 -0400 I don't recall mentioning any early-August-blooming Colchicum cultivars. I did tantalize Jim Shields with visions of Colchicum graecum blooming then, but I must confess that I have no idea whether it actually would for him. It (or at least something posing quite convincingly as it) does bloom in early to mid-August in at least one garden of my acquaintance (in Oregon, incidentally). From the evidence of corms received in mid-August here, it is obviously well into growth at that time in other gardens as well. It tickles me that I apparently get to enjoy the first flush of colchicums weeks before Jane does. I have always envied those who garden in the Great Northwest, but perhaps we in this locality are more highly favored than I formerly thought. Regarding John Lonsdale's comments, as a purveyor of colchicums it has been my impression that it is heat, not cool, that accelerates colchicum bloom. We always cool them down to slow them down (nothing more dispiriting than several hundred colchicums blooming in their trays rather than in customers' gardens). The Colchicum bivonae 'Apollo' I mentioned as being in bloom is well established in a pot, which means it probably stays warmer than those in the ground. Of course, it would also sense changes in ambient temperature more readily. Russell At 10:15 AM 9/9/2003 -0700, you wrote: >I was surprised to find, among the many e-mails waiting when I returned >from a long weekend in California, mention by Russell Stafford in Michigan >of certain Colchicum cultivars blooming in early August. Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs 8984 Meadow Lane, Berrien Springs, Michigan 49103 269-471-4642 www.odysseybulbs.com From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Sep 10 10:46:11 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Bulbs with surprising hardiness - and problems Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:27:36 -0500 Dear All; As a person who grows bulbs in really cold winter garden, I have to be somewhat amused to see listed as hardy, plants that don't stand a chance here. I was surprised to see Jane M list F. persica which is pretty reliable here and not one I'd consider iffy at all. I am also struck by Jim S, comments about Brodiea performance in a pot versus the ground. and the general performance of Frit. and Corydalis. I think there are two different things happening here: We have discussed how pot culture differs from 'in the ground' in terms of the 'physics' of drainage, temp etc. So it doesn't surprise that some bulbs do better in pots and others in the ground. Also some bulbs multiply madly in post and barely in the ground. Vice versus. Experience tells. A second topic though is the stress that some bulbs have when treated to the (what I'll call ) 'Standard Bulb Treatment' (STB). This STB is the Dutch model suited to Tulips and narcissus. Bulbs are dug in July or August cleaned, sorted, dried and packaged for shipping in August- Sept to arrive in Garden Centers these days. Tulips and narcissus don't mind SBT all that much, but others - the lesser bulbs in particular seem to resent this terribly and may never 'get over this abuse'. I have remarked on Lycoris (which also seem to 'resent ' SBT) with reluctance to put up foliage or bloom for as long as 3 or 4 years before they recover. Bulbs like Fritillaria and Corydalis which are more prone to desiccation may be even less able to recover, particularly if they are growing on the edge of ideal conditions. A specialty grower (like J. Ruksans for example) treats his bulbs quite differently from the Big Dutch growers and instead of SBT they get more individual care. I won't berate the Dutch - too easy a target for their SBT, instead encourage gardeners to buy bulbs from specialty growers who know how to handle each kind of bulb in regard to digging, storage, handling and shipping according to the bulb's needs and not the growers wholesale schedules. Buyer beware. best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Sep 10 10:46:21 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Buyer Beware -Part 2 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:45:51 -0500 Dear All; I just moved soap boxes from ranting about Standard Bulb Treatments not suitable for all bulbs. But I have already stepped to another soap box for a new tale of "bulb danger". Again I won't berate the large Dutch growers or an individual seller, but instead relate my own personal experience and let you draw conclusions. Yesterday's mail brought the catalog for Peter DeJager Bulb Co. The catalog is two parts; the first a slick color brochure of 16 pages illustrating about 560 postage-stamp-size bulb flowers; the second part is a pretty home made price list that's a bit hard to follow. No further comment on part 2. Part one-the color brochure is pretty neat to see all those color pictures across the pages. Being a it of a Lycoris nut (I said 'a bit!!") I went to those pictures to see if they were actually selling L. chinensis or L. aurea as these are often confused names. There are pictures labelled as L. radiata, L. squamiera and L. aurea at the top of the page. Looking closely I wasn't certain of the ID of L. aurea, looking more closely the color of L. squamigera seemed far too pink. Then it Struck me - GASP!!! The three different species were actually THE SAME PHOTO- two mirror images and 'Photoshop'-colored to fit the name: Red L. radiata, Bright pink , reversed L. squamigera and Yellow L. aurea reversed back!! Absolutely identical pictures, totally computer manipulated. Then I wasn't sure that any were actually the species they named. This sure got me thinking. If the company would be so outrageous to foist doctored pictures in the catalog, what would they send? This is a very misleading and disturbing practice. I got to looking at more pictures and although none jumped out as similarly doctored, I then thought hard if I even wanted to place an order. I hear rumors about practices of wanton substitution and use of incorrect names since American bulb buyers are not as discriminating or complain less than others. Well I plan on complaining and will not order. I can't relate any info on the quality or identity of bulbs they actually sell, but I sure do not like this practice one bit. Enough to tell others Buyer Beware! Still fuming Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From Blee811@aol.com Wed Sep 10 11:30:57 2003 Message-Id: <114.288b9978.2c909dad@aol.com> From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: Photos in catalogs Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:30:53 EDT In a message dated 9/10/2003 10:46:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, jwaddick@kc.rr.com writes: > Part one-the color brochure is pretty neat to see all those > color pictures across the pages. Have you seen Brent and Beckys Bulbs new spring catalog this year? Every bulb listed for sale has a color photograph. It's a keeper! We used it at our summer daffodil society meeting and went through the pages with each person describing his or her experiences with the bulbs. Bill Lee From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Sep 10 18:38:53 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030910084824.00b6d0d0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: IBSA Symposium Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:52:45 -0700 Lauw de Jager wrote, I am still puzzled (with a slight feeling of injustice) why all >these beautiful plants grow so easily in often common places: road >verges, rocks overhanging the rolling ocean waves. Still trying to >figure out why we cannot grow here in France these masses of >Lachenalias on neglected traffic islands!! You see this situation all over the world, and the reason is that the plants are (still) growing where grazing animals are less able to eat them. Motor vehicles are their own sort of environmental scourge, but they do deter sheep, goats, cattle, deer, etc., from entering their space. In many parts of the American West, it's almost pointless to walk away from the road, because the surviving native plants are all between the fences and the pavement -- or clinging to big outcrops where cattle and deer don't go, though goats and sheep may. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Sep 10 18:38:52 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030910085549.01f10ec8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Buyer Beware -Part 2 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:59:21 -0700 Jim Waddick mentioned Photoshop-doctored photos in a bulb catalog. This is a very common practice! Just think of all those photos of the "Spring Bulb Garden Special" flowering at once; were they forced in controlled conditions and popped into the ground, or is this just a photo montage? (I notice that the High Country Gardens catalog admits that one of their garden packages - not bulbs - is a photo montage.) And as for the colors they think up to paint the crocuses -- there was one catalog I got recently that showed some fall species as bright rose pink. And I won't even get started on the "hardiness ratings" given for crocuses, narcissus, and some other genera that have quite a range of cold-hardiness within them. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon No crocuses yet. From osthill@htc.net Wed Sep 10 14:05:36 2003 Message-Id: <3F5F6709.8080707@htc.net> From: Lisa and Alec Flaum Subject: Agapanthus cultivars in the US Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:01:45 -0500 A friend is looking for reliable sources of named Agapanthus cultivars, to be purchased for a botanic garden collection. Anybody know any US retailers or wholesalers willing to work with an institution? Thanks Lisa -- Lisa Flaum Waterloo, IL central USA clay soil, Hot humid summers (to 105F, 40C) generally dry, punctuated by gully washers Cold, wet, cloudy winters, little snow cover, intense freeze/thaw cycle (-10F, -25C) From DaveKarn@aol.com Wed Sep 10 14:36:21 2003 Message-Id: <8.3c98d21b.2c90c91f@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: REPLY: [pbs] Buyer Beware -Part 2 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:36:15 EDT In a message dated 10-Sep-03 7:46:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jwaddick@kc.rr.com writes: > I hear rumors about practices of wanton substitution and use of incorrect > names since American bulb buyers are not as discriminating or complain less > than others. Well, I plan on complaining and will not order. I can't relate > any info on the quality or identity of bulbs they actually sell, but I sure do > not like this practice one bit. Enough to tell others Buyer Beware! > Jim ~ Hardly a rumor -- it happens often enough in the mass marketing daffodil world, as well -- caveat emptor is the operative word with these suppliers, many of them barely a step above the level of such reprehensible firms as Michigan Bulb Co. You describe yourself as "a bit" of a Lycoris fancier. In my case, as a daffodil nut, it would have to be much more than "a bit" over the top. Clearly, I fit the category that Murray Evans (an Oregon daffodil breeder/grower of some years ago) used to refer to as one of the "hopelessly bitten!" It's certainly true that these businesses target the naive Joe and Jan Sixpaque types out there who really don't know one clone from another and are content with a line of daffodils planted along their driveway. If a substitution has been made, they will never catch it as these suppliers are devious enough to substitute something with the same color combination and not tell the recipient. That these suppliers continually get away with this sort of thing rankles me no end, as well. As a daffodil judge, I often have to deal with the fall out from this practice. With a bow to diplomacy, it has been a way to win friends and adherents to the genus, although not one that I prefer . . . That whole business aside, for the moment, the thing that really infuriates me is the unsurpassed arrogance when I've written these people and been told (with the clear underlying inference) that, since I'm not Dutch, I can't possibly accurately know what I'm looking at or talking about! It is the very reason I caution anyone who is thinking of buying from the Ohms/Scheepers conglomerate not to -- they don't deserve the business! This does bring up an interesting observation, however. The Dutch are past masters at the marketing and selling of daffodils (and all Spring-flowering bulbs) in the USA. Each year the number of "Dutch" bulbs entering this country increases, even though they supply and sell pretty much the same things year after year. Where is all of that stock going? After JJS have purchased "King Alfred" or 'Ice Follies' for the third or fourth time, they are probably not going to do so again. This is a huge market and one that is being inadequately serviced by the Dutch wholesalers, although, in recent years, there has been at least a trickle of new daffodils entering these channels. On the other hand, this is a market that is neither recognized nor exploited by American daffodil interests or, in particular, the national daffodil organization. Understandably, like so many small horticultural businesses, American daffodil breeder/growers are of the "Mom and Pop" type and geared toward meeting the needs of a very small niche market and have neither the desire nor the capital to compete with the Dutch. And the response by the national organization -- if it even recognizes or understands the issue -- is, at best, disjointed and feeble. Lest anyone think I've singled out daffodils here, one can substitute any Spring or Summer-flowering "bulb" and pretty much reach the same conclusions. Somehow, these affinity organizations dedicated to promotion (if they aren't focussed on doing so, they're missing the proverbial boat altogether) of their particular genus do a totally miserable job. The end result is that this market has been conceded to the Dutch wholesalers without so much as a whimper! Thus, based on results, we have what we deserve . . . Dave Karnstedt Silverton, Oregon, USA 97381-0237 email: davekarn@aol.com USDA Zone 7-8, winter wet, summer dry Mediterranean maritime climate From arnold@nj.rr.com Wed Sep 10 15:08:47 2003 Message-Id: <1a59a71a59d1.1a59d11a59a7@rdc-nyc.rr.com> From: arnold@nj.rr.com Subject: Agapanthus cultivars in the US Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:08:46 -0400 Lisa: Plant Delights has a selection. Arnold From angelopalm69@inwind.it Wed Sep 10 16:01:57 2003 Message-Id: <006901c377d6$14901740$f49c623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Haemanthus coccineus vs. sanguineus Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:59:43 +0200 Doug and others, can you help me on how to tell these species apart? I have some in bloom now, got from Sicily, where these are quite common in old gardens, but I don't know actually which species it is. many thanks Angelo Porcelli Italy From jshields104@insightbb.com Wed Sep 10 16:06:58 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030910150614.02656ac8@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Hippeastrum suppliers Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:06:45 -0500 Hi all, I want to build a small database of mail order vendors who sell Hippeastrum. if you are such, or know of one, please contact me at . I'm not interested in the mass marketers, but rather the bulb specialists. I know a lot of hobbyists and specialists who grow Hippeastrum, but I'm not sure who sells them. At present, the SOURCES page in the Great Lakes Bulbs web site lists only Paul Christian, John Ingram, Herb Kelly, and my garden. The GLB Sources page is at URL = http://www.shieldsgardens.com/GLOVBulbs/SOURCES.html I will add appropriate sources of Hippeastrum to the GLB Sources page. Thanks, Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From geophyte@sbcglobal.net Wed Sep 10 18:01:47 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20030910143156.009e5ca0@pop.sbcglobal.net> From: Jamie Subject: Agapanthus cultivars in the US Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:59:23 -0700 Lisa, Plant Delights is a great source. Heronswood Gardens (http://www.heronswood.com/) also offers a few named varieties. Darrell Apps, owner/operator of Woodside (daylily) Nursery in Bridgeton, New Jersey, used to list two named varieties that were bred in the Pacific Northwest, and were hardy for him. You may need to contact him personally regarding these - I don't believe they are listed in his online catalog. http://www.woodsidenursery.com/paradise/supplier/home.php?id=s004 I hope this helps some. Jamie From john@johnlonsdale.net Wed Sep 10 18:18:11 2003 Message-Id: <000201c377e9$68b5b510$6401a8c0@John> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: Fall bloom Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 18:18:03 -0400 Russell Stafford mentioned "Regarding John Lonsdale's comments, as a purveyor of colchicums it has been my impression that it is heat, not cool, that accelerates colchicum bloom. We always cool them down to slow them down (nothing more dispiriting than several hundred colchicums blooming in their trays rather than in customers' gardens). The Colchicum bivonae 'Apollo' I mentioned as being in bloom is well established in a pot, which means it probably stays warmer than those in the ground. Of course, it would also sense changes in ambient temperature more readily." I think we are talking about two different things here. My comments were meant to imply that a sustained drop in temperature below some undefined threshold is the trigger to initiate blooming. Once that threshold has been crossed then, absolutely (as is the case with all biological processes), higher temperatures will accelerate the blooming cycle and the flowers will go over faster. Cooling them will delay this. J. Dr John T Lonsdale, 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 610 476 0428 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From arnold@nj.rr.com Wed Sep 10 18:39:11 2003 Message-Id: <3F5FA80A.1020706@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Fall bloom Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 18:39:06 -0400 Flower initiation in bulbs has always been a fascinating subject for me. It is always amazing how some plants flower on schedule regardless of the environment. I have witnessed cyclamen, boophone and others come into growth under artificial light( same on/off period) as if they were outside and exposed to lengthening days. I remember reading about integrated Pest management principles and counting the number of days that a certain temperature was reached. This could be used to calculate the appearance of pests and determined the timing for the application of control practices. So why no the same with colchicums or crocus for that matter. I could be that after 45 days of days over 85 degrees the flower ripens and it is not so much the appearance of the cold but the length of time that heat was present. I guess we will all have to go to the lab to wok this out. Arnold From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Sep 10 18:56:21 2003 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Dutch iris requirements Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:56:17 -0700 I am in the process of buying Dutch bulbs. I am looking at pictures of Dutch iris which come in unusual colour combinations (brown and purple) as well as pretty pastels. I can remember buying them years ago, on more than one occasion, but none persisted. I assume they bloomed at least once, but they didn't make an impression on my memory, so I don't think they lasted long. Other bulbs I bought at the same time (25 years ago?), like various scillas, anemones, hyacinths, some of the tulips, still come up every year. I know why some bulbs didn't survive (narcissus bulb fly, rodents eating crocus, inkspot disease of reticulata iris). Is there some reason the Dutch iris wouldn't persist? They are really cheap to buy, so the Dutch must find them really easy. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From jshields104@insightbb.com Wed Sep 10 19:11:24 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030910174928.0266a150@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Haemanthus coccineus vs. sanguineus Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 18:11:22 -0500 Angelo, I assume Doug and Rachel will chime in here, but since I have a copy of Dee Snijman's (out of print) book, "The Genus Haemanthus. A revision", I'll give you what I find there: Haemanthus sanguineus. The peduncle is unmarked (no bands or speckles). The leaves are rough and leathery, and prostrate or close to the ground. The leaf margins are reddish. The underside of the leaves usually without any transverse bands or streaks. The leaves are likely to be almost as broad as long, and blunter at the tip than coccineus. The species is quite variable. Haemanthus coccineus. The peduncle may be spotted or streaked. The leaves are smooth and fleshy, and semi-erect, only sometimes prostrate. The underside of the leaves at the base have transverse bands or streaks. Leaf margins mostly not red. The leaves are more likely to be much longer than broad, and tapering to a point. Where of the ranges of H. coccineus and H. sanguineus overlap at their easternmost end, the plants may be harder to distinguish. If you know where your plants originated in the wild, that will help. H. coccineus has a much broader geographic range than does sanguineus. Most of my H. coccineus plants have the transverse dark green or maroon bands on the underside of the leaves at their base. None of my (far fewer) plants of H. sanguineus show the basal banding. Good luck! Jim Shields in central Indiana At 09:59 PM 9/10/2003 +0200, you wrote: >Doug and others, > >can you help me on how to tell these species apart? I have some in bloom >now, got from Sicily, where these are quite common in old gardens, but I >don't know actually which species it is. > >many thanks >Angelo Porcelli >Italy ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Wed Sep 10 19:57:01 2003 Message-Id: <3F5FBA40.8050209@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Buyer Beware -Part 2 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 18:56:48 -0500 My main catalog pet peeve is the color enhanced photographs that many of the big brokers use. I was struck last season by the picture of Narcissus 'Palmares' on the cover of one of these catalogs, the entire split cup being salmon pink. The description within even supported the color presentation. Well, this spring it sprung with similar form and only a hint of pink on the outer edges of the cup, having more of a yellow coloration. The real McCoy may be viewed: http://www.bulbmeister.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=245 I do suppose environmental conditions could affect color????, but this is ridiculous!!!! I made a big booboo this past spring when selling Canna speciosa. No pictures were involved, but I relied on a description, which may be correct for all I know, that had the flowers pale purple. Well, it happens to be a bright red/orange (the one I sell anyway). Boy, did I feel stupid. I'm not even sure now if its C. speciosa. Anybody who might know, maybe you could set me straight: http://www.bulbmeister.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=998&thumb=1&si=canna+speciosa Finally, I just took a picture today that I want to share with everybody, 'Lycoris Bouquet' (NOT color enhanced): http://www.bulbmeister.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=678 >>Being a bit of a Lycoris nut...I went to those pictures to see if >>they were actually selling L. chinensis or L. aurea... looking more >>closely the color of L. squamigera seemed far too pink. Then it >>Struck me - GASP!!! >> -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From jglatt@ptd.net Wed Sep 10 20:16:41 2003 Message-Id: <000c01c377fb$55df4ca0$dd21bacc@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: fall bloom Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:26:24 -0400 Decades ago we had a little house in Norwalk, Connecticut. I had a couple of fluorescent light units in the basement for growing plants. They were behind a knotty pine board false wall for the finished part of the basement, in the space between the wall and the foundation. In summer, when the cyclamen were dormant, I would turn the lights off. And take a look sometime in August or early September and there would be pale little shoots, somewhat etiolated, questing for light. Now these plants were dry, no light either natural or artificial, and I would think that the temperature in such a below grade setting was relatively uniform. Puzzling, and perhaps even a little scary. How did they know when to wake up? Judy From jglatt@ptd.net Wed Sep 10 20:20:12 2003 Message-Id: <000e01c377fb$d3495140$dd21bacc@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: unexpectedly hardy bulbs Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:29:55 -0400 In Norwalk, Connecticut, zone 6, I had Crocus longiflorus outdoors, had no idea it was not supposed to be hardy so perhaps dumb luck since it grew just fine. And in Wilton, Connecticut, zone 6 but colder since further inland from Long Island Sound, I had Amaryllis belladonna in the garden. It flowered reliably every year. That time I knew it was pushing my luck, gambled, and won. Judy From stocker@itconnect.net.au Wed Sep 10 21:05:16 2003 Message-Id: <000901c37800$659b3730$e332c2cb@DEPARTMEEH8IIP> From: "stocker" Subject: Leucojum autumnale forms Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:02:36 +1000 Dear Jane McGary I read your article about leucojum autumnal forms. Do you ever have seed available for sale of swapping. I am particularly interested in seed of leucojum hiemale and l. longifolium. I have seed of leucojum tingitanum available within a few months. Thanks Bill From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Wed Sep 10 21:13:41 2003 Message-Id: <3F5FCC39.7040302@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: unexpectedly hardy bulbs Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:13:29 -0500 Judy: Please forgive this question, but are you sure your A. belladonna is not Lycoris squamigera? L. squamigera foliage would begin to emerge late February to early March, while A. belladonna is supposed to have foliage throughout the winter. Mainly, you will see this in bud, but L. squamigera has a bit of blue in the petal tip. I don't think any of the A. belladonna varieties have blue coloring, right? Just a thought. Judy Glattstein wrote: >In Norwalk, Connecticut, zone 6, I had Crocus longiflorus outdoors, had no >idea it was not supposed to be hardy so perhaps dumb luck since it grew just >fine. > >And in Wilton, Connecticut, zone 6 but colder since further inland from Long >Island Sound, I had Amaryllis belladonna in the garden. It flowered reliably >every year. That time I knew it was pushing my luck, gambled, and won. > >Judy > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Sep 11 12:50:25 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030910192510.00b5fab0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Dutch iris requirements Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 19:29:37 -0700 Diane Whitehead in British Columbia asked, >Is there some reason the Dutch iris wouldn't persist? Dutch irises are hybrids of various species from the Iberian Peninsula and North Africa. I have not found that they persist here in Oregon either. I can plant them in fall if the winter is a warm one, like last year, but they don't survive a cold winter. I believe they are often sold as spring-planted bulbs, too. This suggests that our Pacific Northwest winters are too cold for them. However, as Diane notes, they are cheap, so I usually buy some and gamble on a warm winter, because they fill in nicely between the daffodils and tulips. I have some of the wild species ancestral to the Dutch irises in my bulb frame, where they do well. I don't know if Iris latifolia, the so-called English iris, which is really from Spain, is involved in the ancestry of Dutch irises. I find it a good perennial here, flowering in late June. There are several named clones available. The color range is limited to white through violet. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From john@johnlonsdale.net Thu Sep 11 06:35:22 2003 Message-Id: <000001c37850$63160490$6401a8c0@John> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: Fall bloom Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 06:35:13 -0400 "I remember reading about integrated Pest management principles and counting the number of days that a certain temperature was reached. This could be used to calculate the appearance of pests and determined the timing for the application of control practices. So why no the same with colchicums or crocus for that matter. I could be that after 45 days of days over 85 degrees the flower ripens and it is not so much the appearance of the cold but the length of time that heat was present. I guess we will all have to go to the lab to wok this out." Arnold's comments about temperature thresholds and insect populations are spot on. It is an interesting point re. bulb flowering initiation but it is contraindicated because the same fall flowering crocus and colchicum flower much earlier in the UK than they do in the eastern US. This is despite the fact that they have encountered fewer days at higher temperatures in the UK. The UK doesn't have the continental type climate we have in the eastern US, so the cool nights come earlier. If number of 'heat days' was the trigger, these bulbs would be flowering in the US long before their brethren in the UK. Of course we are even luckier here because a number of bulbs that do well here don't flower well or at all in the garden in the UK because they don't get warm enough to ripen flower buds at all! Dr John T Lonsdale, 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 610 476 0428 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Thu Sep 11 09:38:15 2003 Message-Id: <002101c3786a$7a972c60$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Hippeastrum suppliers Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:42:00 -0400 Jim, Please add my company to the list: Amaryllis Plus Bulb Company 1932 20th Ave. N St. Petersburg, FL 33713 USA Kevin D. Preuss www.Amaryllis-Plus.com (will be back on-line this weekend) 727 820 0852 Thank you. Kevin Preuss ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.E. Shields" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 4:06 PM Subject: [pbs] Hippeastrum suppliers > Hi all, > > I want to build a small database of mail order vendors who sell > Hippeastrum. if you are such, or know of one, please contact me at > . > > I'm not interested in the mass marketers, but rather the bulb specialists. > I know a lot of hobbyists and specialists who grow Hippeastrum, but I'm not > sure who sells them. > > At present, the SOURCES page in the Great Lakes Bulbs web site lists only > Paul Christian, John Ingram, Herb Kelly, and my garden. The GLB Sources > page is at URL = http://www.shieldsgardens.com/GLOVBulbs/SOURCES.html I > will add appropriate sources of Hippeastrum to the GLB Sources page. > > Thanks, > Jim Shields > > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Sep 11 10:08:20 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Buyer Beware - Can O' Worms Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:03:38 -0500 Dear all; I didn't really mean to open up a replay of 'horror shows', but to relate a recent example. New growers especially need to be aware of unscrupulous business practices of many mass marketers. Buy bulbs from dedicated specialty growers. Observe your plants at bloom to verify their ID. Don't be taken in by claims. Most important don't let low prices equal bargains. You buy what you pay for. I especially hate the color enhancements in catalogs on bulb packages. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jamievande@freenet.de Thu Sep 11 10:36:53 2003 Message-Id: <002401c37872$0c3af0a0$6402a8c0@celeron> From: "Jamie" Subject: Buyer Beware - Can O' Worms Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:36:11 +0200 Jim, I can only echo your words. As the old gardener's adage goes, " a cheap shovel, is an expensive shovel!" I am always shocked and amazed at what is foisted upon an unwary public, especially here in Europe, where we should be more careful with the backyard. True bargains are GETTING what you paid for! Ciao, Jamie V. Cologne ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Waddick" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 4:03 PM Subject: [pbs] Buyer Beware - Can O' Worms > Dear all; > I didn't really mean to open up a replay of 'horror shows', > but to relate a recent example. > New growers especially need to be aware of unscrupulous > business practices of many mass marketers. Buy bulbs from dedicated > specialty growers. Observe your plants at bloom to verify their ID. > Don't be taken in by claims. > > Most important don't let low prices equal bargains. You buy > what you pay for. I especially hate the color enhancements in > catalogs on bulb packages. > > Best Jim W. > > > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > E-fax 419-781-8594 > > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Thu Sep 11 10:44:57 2003 Message-Id: <000701c37873$ca206a40$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Buyer Beware - Can O' Worms Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:48:39 -0400 Jim, This is one thing that I see too much of: growers opting to buy material rather than growing it themselves from seed/divisions of known stock. When you grow them from seed/offset and see them bloom and know the plant, then it can be sold. Too many people see $$$, which is not a reality w/o putting it to somebody,- after all isn't that the American Way? No it is not, not the ideals anyway...maybe the practice of some but not all. I just purchased 5 bulbs of a white striped hippeastrum sp. that arrived w/o a white stripe! now that bulb seller/"grower" did not even attempt to cover what he was doing! In my business i flower all stock material so that i know the divisions and seedlings are true. Granted, honest mistakes do happen. Sincerely, Kevin Preuss ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Waddick" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 10:03 AM Subject: [pbs] Buyer Beware - Can O' Worms > Dear all; > I didn't really mean to open up a replay of 'horror shows', > but to relate a recent example. > New growers especially need to be aware of unscrupulous > business practices of many mass marketers. Buy bulbs from dedicated > specialty growers. Observe your plants at bloom to verify their ID. > Don't be taken in by claims. > > Most important don't let low prices equal bargains. You buy > what you pay for. I especially hate the color enhancements in > catalogs on bulb packages. > > Best Jim W. > > > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > E-fax 419-781-8594 > > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Thu Sep 11 12:52:20 2003 Message-Id: <20030911165218.36535.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Buyer Beware - Can O' Worms Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:52:18 -0700 (PDT) I have to say as a supplier of a lot of species, I have been duped by my wholesalers/suppliers. I ordered rather large crinum bulbs from a grower in FL. I paid top dollar for really large C. scabrum. They did not flower for me the first year (bad soil choice) but many did flower the second. All that flowered were Ellen B. Not really even close. I tried to contact all the people that I sold and traded to but, the plants were already growing for them. From my end, trying to get a good source of properly ID'd material is so hard. I try to make sure everything is labeled properly (I am quite neurotic at times and this is one pet peeve). I have to agree with Kevin. I will be growing all my plants to bloom until they are sold just in case. I might let some go earlier with a warning of possible inaccuracies. Jim, I have seen other suppliers that have used the same photos with different color changes but it was not the supplier to which you referred. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Sep 11 22:42:32 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030911100011.00b6c880@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Buyer Beware -Part 2 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:05:09 -0700 Rodger Whitlock wrote, >Probably Crocus kotschyanus (syn. C. zonatus), which is actually >rather pretty, a pale lavender/mauve with some yellow in the throat. > >This species is notorious because the clone usually sold is nearly >non-flowering. I've had a few of those and the petals were distorted, >suggesting a viral infection. (Whatever happened to phytosanitary >certification? Isn't a virus a disease?) Crocuses can be virus-infected. A few years ago Antoine Hoog visited here and showed me how to spot some outward symptoms (streaking, distortion, mottling), and I got rid of a couple of affected populations. As usual, the solution is to grow your own from seed, which is available from Jim and Jenny Archibald's brand-new list; they are promising a website by the end of this year, hurrah! I have two clones of Crocus kotschyanus that flower reliably. One, appropriately called 'Reliant', comes from Antoine Hoog in Holland and seems very healthy; the other, which carries a "JRJK" collector's number, comes from Janis Ruksans and is even more vigorous and floriferous. I've also grown several groups of this species from wild-collected seed and get flowers from them -- as will the people who ordered the one I have on this year's list, because the unsold corms are about to flower in the bag, and I have to get them in the ground today. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Thu Sep 11 13:22:20 2003 Message-Id: <3F60AD81.72C51109@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Buyer Beware Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:14:41 -0700 Dear All: Without a doubt there are some suppliers of bulbs that pay little or no attention to nomenclature. When you know of unscrupulous vendors, they should be reported, with full documentation, to the American Association of Nurserymen, Mail Order Association of Nurserymen and to the Post Office Inspectors, if there is evidence of fraud. It is all well and good to complain, but unless action is taken, such operations will continue ad infinitum. It is obvious dealing with top quality and respected firms is the only way to go. Perhaps in one of our publications a list of reputable firms with whom members have had good experiences could be listed. Perhaps a PBS Seal of Approval could be given to such firms, this as a fund raiser for the PBS and a good endorsement for the firms themselves. Cheers, John E. Bryan From jamievande@freenet.de Thu Sep 11 13:24:53 2003 Message-Id: <001101c37889$84e41a60$6402a8c0@celeron> From: "Jamie" Subject: Dutch iris requirements Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:23:59 +0200 Diane, Jane, in my Zone 8 garden Dutch iris do rather well and a few are reliable bloomers for me. I am unsure of the names, as I purchased mixed lots, mostly because that was about all you could get! Professor Blaauw is often available, as is Bronze Queen, occaisionally others, but they are the exceptions. I do have that lovely bronze and blue combination, which I believe is Bronze Queen, as well as a number of blues and a glowing yellow. They are in deep, humus soil, wet in Winter, when they start growing, becoming a bit dryer as the ground warms. Summers tend to get a bit dry toward the end and then the Autumn rains come. I can't say they increase well, but they do increase, they may well require more sun to truly prosper. Being stately and firm, they make excellent cut flowers, although they hold only a few days. As they are so cheap to buy, I pay little attention to them and consider them decoration more than charges. I have always assumed them to be quite hardy, but perhaps Zone 6-7 is the limit! I planted them deep, a good 15cm (6"), which they apparently liked. It's a funny thing with the Xiphium Iris, we seem to be taking them for granted! Not exactly fair, is it. They are very satisfactory between other perennials. Jamie V. Cologne From jglatt@ptd.net Thu Sep 11 14:08:33 2003 Message-Id: <000301c37891$1414bbc0$8c21bacc@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: unexpectedly hardy bulbs, again Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:18:18 -0400 Hi Kelly, No offense taken, people frequently confuse Lycoris squamigera and Amaryllis belladonna (especially when they simply call them both "naked ladies.") However what I had was indeed Amaryllis belladonna. Bought in California. Big bulb. Big flowers on a long stalk in September. Wide leaves coming soon after flowers and green through winter. While not planted up against the house it was sheltered under the broad roof overhang. And in winter I would cover the bulb's foliage with evergreen boughs sort of "tented" over it. Now I'm in New Jersey, on clay soil. Half a zone warmer by the "old" USDA zone map. But the heavy wet soil is more lethal in winter. Of course Musa basjoo, next to the house, came through last winter's travails. If I evicted the banana, just think of all the room I'd have for quasi-tender bulbs. BTW, in the same area up against the house and next to the banana I have cannas that think they are living in a milder climate. Unnamed gift from a friend. Slender purple foliage, refined peach-orange flowers, looks very much like Intrigue and might very well be that cultivar for all I know. regards, Judy From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Thu Sep 11 14:25:26 2003 Message-Id: <3F60BE10.7000900@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: unexpectedly hardy bulbs, again Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:25:20 -0500 Wow, Judy! That makes me want to try one or two out in the open (zone 6b). It seems that leaves can handle a lot more "cold" if no frost is involved. Maybe the boughs are what helped with protection against frost for survival, beyond that, productivity. Judy Glattstein wrote: >Hi Kelly, > >No offense taken, people frequently confuse Lycoris squamigera and Amaryllis >belladonna > -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Sep 11 14:31:12 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Dutch iris requirements Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:27:26 -0500 Dear Jane and all; You are destroying my illusions of fields of Dutch Iris growing in the Pacific NW. I understood that this was at one time a major growing area for Dutch Iris (among others). Here they are planted in fall, bloom in spring and disappear. Bulbs seem hardy enough, but they are NOT long lived. A rare bulb blooms weakly the second year. The Dutch must grow them literally by the ton as they are cheap and widely available. What's an Iberian bulb doing flourishing in Holland? Can anyone report long term success with them? best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Sep 11 15:13:23 2003 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Dutch iris requirements Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:13:22 -0700 I thought maybe it was something simple I wasn't doing, but since no one else is wildly successful with them (except the Dutch) I have been driven to old books. The British Iris Society manual suggests leaving them in the ground and fertilizing them. The author of Iris in the Little Garden (publ 1927), Ella Porter McKinney, who lived in New Jersey, U.S.A., couldn't grow them. N. Lesley Cave, who wrote The Iris in mcml, and lived in England, wrote this: It has been said that no one garden will grow both Dutch and English irises, and while this is an exaggeration, there is a lot of truth in it. Dutch (and Spanish) irises require a light, warm soil, the English, on the other hand, demand cool, moist conditions. ......... (The Dutch and Spanish) send up their leaves in autumn, and to prevent damage to the foliage and consequent weakening of the bulbs, they should not be planted until October. This will delay the growth of the leaves. They should be lifted annually as soon as the foliage has withered. Sunset Western Garden Book (for the west coast of North America) says this: Plant in sun 4 in. deep, 3-4 in. apart in October-November. Bulbs hardy, but in coldest climates, mulch in winter. Ample water during growth; after bloom let foliage ripen before digging, store bulbs in a cool, dry place; do not let bulbs stay out of the ground more than 2 months. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Thu Sep 11 15:39:25 2003 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Dutch iris requirements Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:39:09 -0700 >Dear Jane and all; > You are destroying my illusions of fields of Dutch Iris >growing in the Pacific NW. I understood that this was at one time a >major growing area for Dutch Iris (among others). > Here they are planted in fall, bloom in spring and disappear. > > Bulbs seem hardy enough, but they are NOT long lived. A rare >bulb blooms weakly the second year. > > The Dutch must grow them literally by the ton as they are >cheap and widely available. What's an Iberian bulb doing flourishing >in Holland? > > Can anyone report long term success with them? > > best Jim W. >-- A long time ago when I was an undergraduate in the early '80s, I planted a number of these I got at the local nursery in the autumn at my parents' house, in Austin, Texas. They're in a big flowerbed in the front yard, in mostly full sun. Not only did they come back each year, the clumps have continued to grow in size and they continue to be one of my mother's favorite springtime flowers since there are so many of them and they bloom for a few weeks. The foliage doesn't start to appear until late winter/early spring. These are the common blue, white, and yellow types. I think my mother even had to dig the clumps up a few years ago to thin them out and share with all her friends in the neighborhood. Austin is Zone 8b with mostly mild, lightly rainy winters with the occasional Arctic cold front, and very hot, somewhat humid summers with occasional thunderstorms, but usually mostly dry. Some people think it's unbearable in the summer. Spring and autumn weather is spectacular however (IMHO). -- --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From osthill@htc.net Thu Sep 11 16:02:35 2003 Message-Id: <3F60D3F4.7070907@htc.net> From: Lisa and Alec Flaum Subject: Dutch iris requirements Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:58:44 -0500 James Waddick wrote: > > Can anyone report long term success with them? > > best Jim W. Well, maybe. 7 years ago I was given a handful of "mother's day iris" bulbs These start growth in fall and hold their foliage through the winter. By spring they look horrid, but consistently produce flowers the first week of May. They bloom at 18-20" tall. Most are yellow , but some are mid blue. I figured they were Dutch iris but have never gone and gotten any for a side by side comparison. Bulbs purchased as English iris bloomed in June-July. There is nothing special about the bed. It is a south exposure planted with asters, daylilies, garden phlox, coreopsis, geraniums etc. Watered about once every two weeks if there is no rain; certainly not fussed over. Lisa Colchicum, Sternbergia and Scilla autumnalis in bloom. Guess it really is fall. -- Lisa Flaum Waterloo, IL central USA clay soil, Hot humid summers (to 105F, 40C) generally dry, punctuated by gully washers Cold, wet, cloudy winters, little snow cover, intense freeze/thaw cycle (-10F, -25C) From puppincuff@cox.net Thu Sep 11 22:30:12 2003 Message-Id: <003301c378d6$2acb3200$738e0544@oc.cox.net> From: "puppincuff" Subject: Agapanthus cultivars in the US Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:32:53 -0700 i have a good purple that is not in the trade yet that i might be willing to share. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa and Alec Flaum" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 11:01 AM Subject: [pbs] Agapanthus cultivars in the US > > > A friend is looking for reliable sources of named Agapanthus cultivars, to be purchased for a > botanic garden collection. Anybody know any US retailers or wholesalers willing to work with > an institution? Thanks > > > Lisa > > > -- > Lisa Flaum > Waterloo, IL > central USA > clay soil, Hot humid summers (to 105F, 40C) generally dry, punctuated by gully washers > Cold, wet, cloudy winters, little snow cover, intense freeze/thaw cycle (-10F, -25C) > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Sep 12 13:35:53 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030911195849.00b71c90@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Dutch iris requirements Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:02:00 -0700 Jim Waddick wrote, "You are destroying my illusions of fields of Dutch Iris growing in the Pacific NW. I understood that this was at one time a major growing area for Dutch Iris (among others)." I expect they were grown along the southern Oregon coast, where Lilium longiflorum (Easter lily) is also a major crop. It is much warmer there in winter. Cutflower producers also grow a lot of them in poly hoop houses. > "What's an Iberian bulb doing flourishing in Holland?" Presumably they lift them, as they do most everything, store them in climate-controlled warehouses, and plant them late in fall or in winter so that they don't make top growth and freeze out. That said, Dutch irises do get through the warmer winters here, such as the past two or three. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Fri Sep 12 07:09:04 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030912211200.00a21c20@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Dutch iris requirements Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:12:00 +1000 > > Can anyone report long term success with them? > Jim et al, Is this meaning anyone in your area, or anyone at all? I can not believe anyone has any problems with them as they grow so easily for me here in Canberra, Australia. I have one variety called 'Apollo' that I started with I think ti was 5 originally about 10 years ago and if I counted everything I have given away to friends etc and their likely multiples then there would be thousands of them from those 5 bulbs by now. They multiply into large clumps a foot or so wide at the base before they sort of settle down into that size and grow on and flower happily each year. I have only ever found one Dutch Iris that has been a problem to me and that is an old variety called "Bronze Queen" (I saw reference to this in another email..... what we had available here under that name was a much older smaller variety than the moderner hybrids and it was basically bronze, no blue. The current bronze and blue combination has gone through a couple of names such as "Bronze Beauty" and I think "Mystic Beauty", and there are other varieties such as "Marquette" that have that sort of combination too). In my case (and a friend's too) the Bronze Queen died out over a couple of years. Being a very old variety I have been unable to source it since then, which is a shame as I loved the pure bronzey colour, even if the flowers were smaller than "normal" I won't go into growing them here until I find out whether Jim's question about anyone having long term success was only intended to be aimed at those in his zone. I am warmer at maybe -8'C during winter. I still thought I'd respond as I have definitely had clumps of these in both pots and the ground that have survived (and continue to survive) for many years now with no signs of dying out. In fact I have recently planted out some varieties that were neglected in pots for a number of years and they are renewing themselves rapidly and are starting to flower this year for the first time in years (actually getting food helps ). Anyway, if the query from Jim was directed at locals then I apologise for butting in. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Fri Sep 12 07:24:41 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030912212746.00a6a1e0@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Dutch iris requirements - clarification Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:27:46 +1000 > >Is this meaning anyone in your area, or anyone at all? I can not believe >anyone has any problems with them as they grow so easily for me here in >Canberra, Australia. I have one variety called 'Apollo' that I started BTW.... before anyone jumps on me.... the above comment about "I can not believe" was meant as tongue in cheek. I realise that people obviously ARE having problems with growing them long term, it just amazes me as they grow so easily for me here in my garden. I just thought I'd better make this addition in case someone took offence to my comment and thought I was doubting them. 'Twas a joke!! Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Fri Sep 12 10:39:10 2003 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476B97533@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Dutch iris requirements Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:39:27 -0500 A yellow flowered and at least one of the blue fowered cultivars of Dutch Iris grew and flowered well at my parents' garden in southern New Mexico, climatic zone 7 for years during the 1970's. They eventually declined but I assumed it was because they were not divided. Foliage still comes up. Cold winters (the flower beds are kept moist) and hot dry summers. The bulbs are in among other bulbs and perennials and so get summer supplemental irrigation. They don't really spread at all but it is obvious there are daughter bulbs produced. Other colors, bronze and white did not perform well ... I don't even recall them coming up to flower the first year (could be not as hardy?). Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: James Waddick [mailto:jwaddick@kc.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 1:27 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Dutch iris requirements Dear Jane and all; You are destroying my illusions of fields of Dutch Iris growing in the Pacific NW. I understood that this was at one time a major growing area for Dutch Iris (among others). Here they are planted in fall, bloom in spring and disappear. Bulbs seem hardy enough, but they are NOT long lived. A rare bulb blooms weakly the second year. The Dutch must grow them literally by the ton as they are cheap and widely available. What's an Iberian bulb doing flourishing in Holland? Can anyone report long term success with them? best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Sep 12 13:05:25 2003 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Dutch iris requirements Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:05:23 -0700 So far we have had success reported from Australia, Texas and New Mexico. A couple of nurseries in California say they will naturalize easily and multiply rapidly. One of these is just north of San Francisco in grape country. Other successful places mentioned on the web: Las Vegas, Oklahoma. All these places seem to me to have high summer heat in common. Maybe digging the bulbs up after flowering keeps them warmer than if they stayed in the ground where the soil insulates them. OK. I'm going to experiment. I'll get back to you in a couple of years. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From Antennaria@aol.com Fri Sep 12 13:10:02 2003 Message-Id: <7C5FAA78.0C4ACF02.0AC9B285@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Dutch iris requirements Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:09:56 -0400 I believe I posted something about this topic earlier this year, but it seems apropos to do so again. In years past, in the autumn when perusing the bins of dutch bulbs, I passed up the Dutch Iris believing them not to be hardy here (USDA Zone 5) in northern New England, USA. But then again, I've been seeing beautiful displays of them at a local area botanic garden, so I decided to give them a try last year, planting a few bulbs of 2 varieties in the autumn. The foliage sprouted shortly after planting and I thought they'd be doomed when winter arrived. Last winter was a return to harsh winters, after the previous 6-7 much milder winters. We had lots of snow, ice, frigid weather, and a spring that seemed to refuse to arrive. The foliage got battered up. But when spring finally did arrive, the foliage perked up with new growth, and the bulbs flowered beautifully. They're planted on a raised mound 18"-24" tall, in rich garden soil in a mixed foundation planting facing west. It remains to be seen how permanent they are, and whether they'll prosper to flower another year. I remain optimistic. Here are two photos I posted on the PBS wiki earlier this year, one each of cultivar's 'Oriental Beauty' & 'Sapphire Beauty' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Iris_Oriental_Beauty_4.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Iris_Sapphire_Beauty_1.jpg Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States "New England", near New Hampshire USDA Zone 5 ======================================= antennaria@aol.com website: http://www.PlantBuzz.com alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Fri Sep 12 14:43:21 2003 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Dutch iris requirements Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:43:12 -0700 >So far we have had success reported from Australia, Texas and New Mexico. > >A couple of nurseries in California say they will naturalize easily >and multiply rapidly. One of these is just north of San Francisco >in grape country. > >Other successful places mentioned on the web: Las Vegas, Oklahoma. > >All these places seem to me to have high summer heat in common. > >Maybe digging the bulbs up after flowering keeps them warmer than >if they stayed in the ground where the soil insulates them. > >OK. I'm going to experiment. I'll get back to you in a couple of years. > >-- >Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada >maritime zone 8 >cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) >sandy soil >_______________________________________________ This is so interesting. I, like Paul, thought they were so easy to grow that I never thought twice about them. They've basically naturalized in my parents' garden and I just assumed that everyone else in cooler climates easily grew them. I guess that since I;ve seen the Dutch bulb companies offer them so cheaply and so massively for years that they were one of those commonly grown temperate bulbs and I was just lucky to get them to grow so well in Texas. I'm going to have to send some of these newer, more interesting looking varieties that have been offered in recent years to my mother to have her try them as well. -- --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From totototo@mail.pacificcoast.net Wed Sep 10 00:21:06 2003 Message-Id: <200309100421.h8A4L1S15620@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Fall bloom Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:36:25 -700 On 9 Sep 03 at 10:15, Jane McGary wrote: > After an unusually hot, dry summer... Cyclamen hederifolium looks > a bit unhappy; it is flowering as usual, but the flowers are not as > "plump" as I'd expect. The first rain since the beginning of July > fell yesterday, though, so I hope they will fatten up... One of the late, great gardeners of Vancouver Island, Dorothy Shaw, used to have legnedary plantings of cyclamen at her place on Quamichan Lake. I have been told by her one-time gardener that it was her practice to soak the cyclamen beds once a month during the summer. I have a funny idea that while cyclamen will survive drought, they prefer to have a certain degree of moisture present in the soil. She also top dressed her cyclamen with generous amounts of farm manure. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@mail.pacificcoast.net Wed Sep 10 00:21:05 2003 Message-Id: <200309100421.h8A4L3S15635@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: TOW: Bulbs with surprising hardiness Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:36:25 -700 On 9 Sep 03 at 19:40, J.E. Shields wrote: > Finally, after growing Brodiaea coronaria in a pot in the greenhouse > and getting very little bloom, and grumbling because I did not think > it worth the precious greenhouse benchtop space it took up, I > planted the whole potful out in the rock garden in summer 2002. > This summer, they bloomed abundantly! Whoever convinced me that B. > coronaria was too tender for Indiana was apparently wrong. These > bulbs were grown from seed from Ron Ratko, collected in the wild, > his #NNS 97-37. Maybe Ron collected these seeds from a harsher, > wetter locality than the usual California types grow in. Brodiaea coronaria grows as far north as British Columbia and is bone-hardy as far as I am concerned. Our winters are *usually* mild, but every so often we get an "arctic outflow" of extremely cold air. Februrary 1989 is the last one that was really memorable; the soil froze a foot deep in some places. Brodiaea coronaria doesn't turn a hair at these cold snaps. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From magrysbo@shu.edu Fri Sep 12 16:36:11 2003 Message-Id: From: "Bonaventure W Magrys" Subject: TOW: Bulbs with surprising hardiness Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:36:06 -0400 Habenaria (Pecteilis) radiata - the egret flower. This hardy orchid has pea-like tubers. Years ago I grew some of the slender grass-like plants outdoors in a large clay pot half filled with sand and topped with sphagnum moss sitting in a saucer of water at all times. As they went dormant in late summer (later now that they're in better health) I dried the pot slightly and stored it in a shed. They had looked miserable and I promptly forgot about them. When it came time to move to a new house that year, in the haste of moving and unpacking, that pot remained wrapped in a plastic groceries bag in the trunk of my car. Being way in the back of the trunk with other "junk" it traveled to and from work with me every day and elsewhere through a New Jersey winter with occasional dips to 10F. Late next May when I found it I thought "this sphagnum ought to be good for topdressing some of the pots of my orchids that are hanging outside". In doing so I saw small green shoots and to my amazement found tubers from which each shoot came from. The Pecteilis now reside in a homemade bog in a large plastic storage container along with pitcher plants, Platanthera, and Spiranthes odorata 'Chadd's Ford' sitting alongside my driveway. In winter I throw a plastic tarp over it. Bonaventure Magrys Cliffwood Beach, NJ From dejager@bulbargence.com Sat Sep 13 02:27:15 2003 Message-Id: <3F62B7BF.7080708@bulbargence.com> From: Lauw Dejager Subject: SA Bulb Images 'Fern kloof' Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 08:22:55 +0200 Dear Dave, Had a look at this very good website and then I realised that we visited this reserve on our second day trip with the IBSA. Just east of the lovely seaside resort of Hermanus (even saw some whales there) we entered the reserve through a narrow valley which then divided in several directions for botanical walks with super view on the ocean. Apart from a wealth of Ericas there were quite a few bulbs in flower: Romulea rosea(carpets on the path with Oxlis obtusa), R.flava, several Gladiolus rougex, debilis, Spiloxene, Watsonia laccata, several Aristea species (but not in flower yet). Looking at the website there will a lot more flowering lateron Regards Lauw de Jager David Fenwick wrote: I've just come across a very good web resource for photos. Fernkloof Nature Reserve > http://fernkloof.com/listplantsbyfamily.mv They have a great list of plant photos. > You've got to check out the following species, quite superb. > Gladiolus debilis > Moraea lurida > Tritonia cooperi quadrialata > After an hour I'm still on I - for iridaceae From Theladygardens@aol.com Sat Sep 13 02:59:11 2003 Message-Id: <12a.3157e2b1.2c941a38@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Dutch iris requirements - clarification Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 02:59:04 EDT My 2 cents on Dutch Iris. I grow over 1000 different Iris, most are hybrid tall bearded but also, Spuria, Siberian, Louisiana, Japanese, Pacific Coast Hybrids and a few species. Trying to obtain more species all the time. A few years ago I dug up several bulbs of blooming Dutch Iris from a house being torn down and planted them in my garden. They bloomed beautifully and have every year for 6 years now. So I purchased an inexpensive mixed bag at the garden center and they also come up and bloom every year. Two years ago I ordered some hybrids, Eye of The Tiger, Van Gogh, and a few others. Not one has grown or bloomed yet. So my experience has been if it's cheap or free and you don't know the name of it, you will have success. If you pay a lot and know the name you won't. LOL There is a commerical grower about an hour away. He grows acres of them for the cut flower trade and plants new bulbs every year. He told me they won't bloom the 2nd year but every other year. Still waiting for a surprise bloom from the named varieties. Carolyn in Los Gatos CA, zone 9 From totototo@mail.pacificcoast.net Wed Sep 10 18:00:16 2003 Message-Id: <200309102200.h8AM0CA27570@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Buyer Beware -Part 2 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:15:39 -700 On 10 Sep 03 at 9:45, James Waddick wrote: > Yesterday's mail brought the catalog for Peter DeJager Bulb > Co.... > Being a bit of a Lycoris nut...I went to those pictures to see if > they were actually selling L. chinensis or L. aurea... looking more > closely the color of L. squamigera seemed far too pink. Then it > Struck me - GASP!!! > > The three different species were actually THE SAME PHOTO- two > mirror images and 'Photoshop'-colored to fit the name: Red L. > radiata, Bright pink , reversed L. squamigera and Yellow L. aurea > reversed back!! Absolutely identical pictures, totally computer > manipulated. Then I wasn't sure that any were actually the species > they named. > > This sure got me thinking. If the company would be so > outrageous to foist doctored pictures in the catalog, what would > they send? Nearly anything. > This is a very misleading and disturbing practice. I got > to looking at more pictures and although none jumped out as > similarly doctored, I then thought hard if I even wanted to place an > order. If your local garden centre carries bulbs in boxes with a big, pretty color picture on the front, look closely. Some of them are clearly not true to life. Typically, blue flowered forms have had the picture doctored to make it look much bluer than in real life. > I hear rumors about practices of wanton substitution and use > of incorrect names since American bulb buyers are not as > discriminating or complain less than others. Well I plan on > complaining and will not order. I can't relate any info on the > quality or identity of bulbs they actually sell, but I sure do not > like this practice one bit. Enough to tell others Buyer Beware! The Dutch bulb industry has been the target of complaints about mislabelled bulbs since at least 1950. Somewhere in the AGS Bulletin around then, I think, you can find a brief rant by E. B. Anderson on the subject. Perhaps this is the most important point to be made for newbies: don't for a minute trust the labels. When your new bulbs bloom, check them against reliable information (the web is very good these days if you are selective in your choice of sites). > Still fuming Don't fume. It isn't good for your heart. There are two things you can do when you find that a bulb is not true to name: one, return it to the seller with a request for a refund; two, complain to whoever enforces advertising and trade standards in your state/province/ country -- in the US, probably the FTC. I once ordered a white oriental poppy cultivar from the now-defunct Cruickshank's, in Toronto (whose catalog featured the exact same cultivars as "new introductions" for decades, or so it seemed). Said poppy came up flaming orange. I dug it up and shipped it back, roots, leaves, flowers, dirt, and all. Got a refund too. The FTC might be very interested in your comments on the DeJager catalogue pictures. Your complaint might be the very pebble that starts an avalanche. Also remember that somewhere along the line, imported bulbs had their names written down on phytosanitary certificates and such, and some authorities might not be amused to find that the lists were sprinkled with little lies. However: the sellers, though legally responsible for selling you misnamed bulbs, are actually at the mercy of the wholesalers and brokers further down (up?) the food chain. But the more people who put pressure on the bulb industry from below, the greater the likelihood that there may be some reduction in these disgusting practices. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Sat Sep 13 11:24:08 2003 Message-Id: <20030913152407.34990.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Tricyrtis hirta question Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 08:24:07 -0700 (PDT) I'm in Ohio right now and I have a question. There is a Tricyrtis hirta here that is nice and large, just starting to bloom and lovely. But, every year it gets large brown necrotic spots all over the leaves. Is this typical for this plant or is there a disease for which I can spray? It is growing on the north side of the house, it gets maybe 1 hour of direct sun at sunrise and then that is it, it is very bright shade from then on. The soil is mostly clay but I have been adding amendments over the years to help improve it. There is a Japanese painted fern right in front of it that gets more sun and it is doing just fine (other than being crowded out). Thanks for all your help. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From totototo@mail.pacificcoast.net Wed Sep 10 23:55:19 2003 Message-Id: <200309110355.h8B3tHs20792@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Buyer Beware -Part 2 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:10:44 -700 On 10 Sep 03 at 8:59, Jane McGary wrote: > Jim Waddick mentioned Photoshop-doctored photos in a bulb catalog. > ...And as for the colors they think up to paint the crocuses -- > there was one catalog I got recently that showed some fall species > as bright rose pink. Probably Crocus kotschyanus (syn. C. zonatus), which is actually rather pretty, a pale lavender/mauve with some yellow in the throat. This species is notorious because the clone usually sold is nearly non-flowering. I've had a few of those and the petals were distorted, suggesting a viral infection. (Whatever happened to phytosanitary certification? Isn't a virus a disease?) But there are forms of C. kotschyanus with quite big, showy flowers. There is a patch by a certain bus stop here, presumably a relict of an old garden, and they are much, much better than any commercial form I've ever seen. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com Sat Sep 13 19:37:41 2003 Message-Id: From: Nan Sterman Subject: Iris watering Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:37:39 -0700 I've heard rumor that iris will tolerate low water conditions... I am about to plant one called "orangesickle" and I wonder whether anyone can verify this rumor... Thanks Nan -- +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Nan Sterman Minds Over Matter (TM) PO Box 231034 Encinitas, CA 92023 760.634.2902 (voice) nsterman@mindsovermatter.com 760.634.2957 (fax) +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= From Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com Sat Sep 13 19:41:08 2003 Message-Id: From: Nan Sterman Subject: Iris watering Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:41:05 -0700 Sorry, wrong name... that should have been Iris 'orange popsickle.' >I've heard rumor that iris will tolerate low water conditions... I >am about to plant one called "orangesickle" and I wonder whether >anyone can verify this rumor... > >Thanks > >Nan >-- -- +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Nan Sterman Plant Soup (TM) PO Box 231034 Encinitas, CA 92023 760.634.2902 (voice) Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com 760.634.2957 (fax) +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= From khixson@nu-world.com Sun Sep 14 02:36:22 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20030913233515.009bfeac@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Iris watering Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 23:35:15 -0700 Nan >>I've heard rumor that iris will tolerate low water conditions... I >>am about to plant one called "orangesickle" and I wonder whether >>anyone can verify this rumor... It would mean more if you indicate what type of iris you are thinking of--because some types do best with a regular water supply. Possibly you are writing of Dutch Iris, as that has been the topic of discussion lately, but your message doesn't make it clear. Consider Japanese iris, Iris pseudocorus, etc. Others like lots of water during growth, and must have a dry period during their rest period. When the water is present may well be as important as the amount. Ken Z7 western Oregon From Theladygardens@aol.com Sun Sep 14 02:54:21 2003 Message-Id: <1ef.fb27c8b.2c956a9a@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Iris watering Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 02:54:18 EDT Nan, if you are talking about Bearded Iris Hybrids, yes, they can tolerate low water situations. The bearded iris hybrids do not like to be soaking in water, they will rot. They do like a good deep soak, really deep and then excellent drainage, sound familiar? The rhizome should also be planted with the top exposed to air if you are in a mild climate and I think you are. If you are planting it now, dig a deeper hole than you think you need so the roots can grow deep fast. If you have a slow release fertilizer add it at this time. Water it often to get the roots established before whatever winter rains set in. If you do not get winter rains you should water it 1-2 a week. The roots will grow fast and need to get deep enough to hold up the tall bloom stalks you get in spring. It should send up new leaves quickly then It will rest some probably Nov until Feb. It begins growing around the end of Feb and can be fertilized again at this time with something like 10 10 10 or whatever. After it blooms, the iris can take very little water UNLESS it is a rebloomer, if so keep watering it to promote reblooming. If it is not a rebloomer, and it's roots are well established you do not need to water it much at all although it will look better if you do. I have over 800 tall bearded hybrids, 100 Pacific Coast Hybrids, another 100 plus Louisiana, Japanese, Siberian, Spuria and species. My garden is open to the public April and May but after that, I know I am in a Mediterranean Climate and do let it get pretty dry. It does look a bit brown and dry but at that time I prefer to spend my water realistically on the fruit trees and vegetable garden. My husband and I have been amazed at how good our rose garden looks with not much water. Hope this has been helpful. Carolyn Craft Los Gatos, zone 9 From mark@marksgardenplants.com Sun Sep 14 03:10:32 2003 Message-Id: <003b01c37a8f$51c36de0$47559851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Dutch iris requirements Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 08:10:45 +0100 hi all These bulbs frow in a wide range of conditions here in the UK. I've grown them in pots, very rich soil and slightly sticky soil. These multiply so fast by producing many bulbils around the base of the main bulbs. Mark N Ireland zone 8 From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Sep 14 15:54:21 2003 Message-Id: <3F64C76D.2050001@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: colchicums Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:54:21 -0400 Various colchicums in flower today. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchcum_major_6.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_Autumn_Herald_4.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_byzantinum_Album_.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_rhodopaeum8.JPG Arnold New Jersey From Theladygardens@aol.com Sun Sep 14 16:01:51 2003 Message-Id: From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Iris watering/ Orange Popsicle Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:01:46 EDT Nan, Orange Popsicle is a Tall Bearded hybrid Iris, expected to be about 33" tall. It was hybridized by George Sutton and introduced and registered with the AIS in 1987. It is ruffled and laced, creamy orange colored with a tangerine beard and a sweet fragrance. Carolyn Craft in Los Gatos From dirkwallace@bigpond.com Sun Sep 14 19:24:13 2003 Message-Id: <001c01c37b18$19dab120$6ffa8690@bamburyc> From: Dirk Wallace Subject: Fritillaria flowering Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:29:52 +1000 Hi Jane and All, Thankyou for your detailed reply of some weeks ago, and my apologies for taking so long to get back to you. Fritillaria eastwoodiae is flowering for me now and I have uploaded a few pics to the wiki. There certainly is some wonderful variation in these naturally occurring hybrids. Does anyone know if the name Fritillaria phaeanthera is applicable to this species, as stated in the Fritillaria book by Kevin Pratt and Michael Jefferson-Brown? http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/friteastwoodiae04.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/friteastwoodiae061.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/friteastwoodiae071.jpg Kind regards, Dirk Check out my web site: http://www.users.bigpond.com/dirkwallace Email the Australian Bulb Association at: support@ausbulbs.org ABA Web Site: http://www.ausbulbs.org Checkout images of bulbs: http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/ Join our free email forums, with Yahoo Groups. Messages - Australian_Bulbs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Images - AB_images-subscribe@yahoogroups.com From mikemace@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 14 20:36:29 2003 Message-Id: <007101c37b23$f6144060$4f01510c@d1fqn01> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Amaryllis 'Multiflora' bloom report Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 17:54:45 -0700 Folks, I haven't posted to the list for a long time, for which I apologize. I have been hanging out and reading, though, and it has been really interesting. One of the reasons I haven't posted is because I didn't have much to say. I do have a little to share about this year's Amaryllis 'Multiflora' crop, though. Here goes... This is turning out to be an extraordinary bloom year. In most years, at best about 40% of the bulbs have bloomed. This year I'd say the ratio is closer to 80%. I'm getting flowers from bulbs that hadn't bloomed in five years. I have no idea what made the difference this time. I didn't water the bulbs more heavily than usual during the summer, and although we had a couple of bouts of humid weather, we didn't get appreciable rain. Oh well, I'm not complaining -- I'm getting the chance to reacquaint myself with some flowers I hadn't seen for a long time, and doing my best to make some interesting crosses. Because everything's in bloom at once, I can do a lot more comparing between flowers than I had in the past. It's giving me a good overview of the range of these flowers (at least the ones I have): Color There are two basic types of white -- those with and without yellow in the throat. I don't think I have any flowers with no yellow whatsoever, but in many of them it's so pale that you barely notice it. In one of the flowers blooming this year, though, the yellow center is very strong. If it were any darker you'd call it gold. It makes me wonder if somebody could eventually breed a 'Multiflora' that's all yellow. That'd be interesting! (On the other hand, genetics is moving so fast that I bet someone will gene-splice this before we can breed it.) Pinks range from very pale sugar pink just at the tips of the flowers to dark solid pink on the outer 2/3 of the flower. The pink color always shades to white or yellow in the throat of the flower. Most of the flowers darken as they age, with the outer parts of the flowers getting darker pink and the throats darkening as well. I wonder if that's some sort of signal to insects. The color appears to darken as the flower finishes shedding its pollen. One very interesting exception to this pattern is a bulb that bloomed for me for the first time this year (it came from Mr. Hannibal). This one starts off with pink on the outer third and white in the center, but as it ages the outer part of the flower turns white and the inside turns mid-pink. The pattern is very striking from a distance -- a pink circle surrounded by a white circle, just like a bull's-eye. Has anyone else on the list ever seen this before in these flowers? The degree of streaking in the pink varies a lot. Several of the flowers show very prominent veins, and some have a bit of a central stripe at the tip of each petal. The veins usually fade to solid deep pink as the flower ages. Time of blooming Early vs. late seems to be very consistent from year to year -- the plants that are early one year are early every year. There's a lot of variation; some of mine have already finished completely this year, while a few are just now putting up buds. Size and shape of flowers There's some variation in the amount of ruffling the flowers have. None of them are strongly frilly, but a few have more waviness than the others. From a distance, this makes the flower heads look fuller, so I guess it's desirable. Size also appears to be consistent from year to year. Most of the flowers are standard Amaryllis-height, but a few are about half-height. I guess there's a chance that the smaller ones are just in exposures that make them grow smaller. I will have to try moving some of them to different spots. Shape of flower head This is where there's also a lot of variation. Flower head shape falls into three basic groups: Most are very one-sided, with the flowers facing in one direction, spread across about a 90 degree angle, toward the sun. Some spread their flowers up to about 180 degrees, again roughly centered on the sun. A few spread the flowers almost into a full circle, like a wagon wheel. This is pretty striking when you see it next to the others. The interesting thing I'm finding is that there appears to be some year to year variation in the radialness (?) of the flower heads. A couple that I had marked as half-radial came out more fully circular this year. In my own amateur way, I'm trying to cross-breed some of the best characteristics of these flowers -- radialness, color, frilliness. (For example, it would be nice to see if we could combine the yellow throat of one of the white flowers with a pink that turns dark at the center as it ages. Would we get a flower that ages to a true red color?) Since it takes years to get new bulbs to bloom, I don't know yet if I'm having any success at all. We'll see... Storing seeds The other thing I'm learning is just how tough 'Multiflora' seeds are when refrigerated. Two years ago, I mistakenly left a plastic baggie of mixed 'Multiflora' seeds in the back of the refrigerator. They stayed there for more than a year, untouched. I found them 18 months later, in mid-winter of the second year. Maybe a quarter of them had died and turned to brown mush. The inside of the bag was pretty damp, I'd almost say wet. But the rest of the seeds had not rotted. They had put out white sprouts that extended about half an inch to an inch long, and were just sitting there waiting. I took them to a shady and damp spot outside, raked loose some dirt, mixed them into it, and watered. To my surprise, a huge number of the seeds survived and put up healthy-looking leaves. I won't know for a few months how they did during the summer, but I have feeling a lot of them made it. My point here is not that you should try to do this sort of long-term storage on purpose (remember, I lost a lot of the seeds). But it is possible, if you ever need to give it a try. Mike San Jose, CA (zone 9, min temp 20F) From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Sep 14 22:06:26 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030914190505.00bb9228@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Fritillaria flowering Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 19:06:19 -0700 At 09:29 AM 9/15/2003 +1000, Dirk wrote: >Fritillaria eastwoodiae is flowering for me now and I have uploaded a few >pics to the wiki. There certainly is some wonderful variation in these >naturally occurring hybrids. Does anyone know if the name Fritillaria >phaeanthera is applicable to this species, as stated in the Fritillaria >book by Kevin Pratt and Michael Jefferson-Brown? Like almost every other statement in said book, that is in error. F. phaeanthera is an invalid synonym for F. eastwoodiae. Jane McGary From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Sep 14 22:10:10 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030914190729.00b5ac80@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Fritillaria flowering Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 19:10:04 -0700 Further on Dirk's Fritillaria eastwoodiae: Those I am growing here all have more recurved tepals,. and most are more in the scarlet range and less yellow. Some authorities regard F. eastwoodiae as a natural hybrid of F. recurva and F. micrantha, but Frank Callahan reports that the former grows in areas where neither of the latter are presently found. Certainly, however, it is quite a variable species. This year I offered mixed "rice grains" of this species, so I hope the many people who ordered them will come up with a nice range of colors. Jane McGary From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Sun Sep 14 23:25:49 2003 Message-Id: <3F653128.2090807@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Fritillaria flowering Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:25:28 -0500 Very beautiful flower, Dirk. Do you have a picture of the plant form. Thanks for the view. Dirk Wallace wrote: >Fritillaria eastwoodiae is flowering for me now... > -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From meenglis@cts.com Mon Sep 15 00:31:44 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20030914211642.00b32148@mailbox2.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: TOW: Shy bloomers. Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:30:37 -0700 I am introducing the Topic of the Week in Mary Sue's absence. This week's topic was also suggested by Robert Parker. It is: Have you ever grown a bulb that has a reputation as a shy bloomer that blooms reliably for you every year and sometimes twice a year. Tell us about your plant and what you have done to get it to flower. I purchased a Crinum 'Ellen Bosanquet' several years ago, thinking it wouldn't do well because of my cold winters. I placed it in a very large pot in the greenhouse. It immediately grew too big to live in that pot and did not bloom the first year, so I moved it to an outside planter bed. I assumed it was a goner, and wouldn't survive my cold winters! Other than giving the bed a dose of potassium when I started it, and sprinkling a little bulb booster over the Crinum roots sometime in the fall, I do nothing special for it. Well it has grown to cover 1/3 of an 8x12 bed and has bloomed every year! Marguerite English, Vice President, Advertising Chairperson Pacific Bulb Society For information and membership forms, view http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/ From meenglis@cts.com Mon Sep 15 00:46:36 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20030914214249.00ba5fa8@mailbox2.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: question about Sternbergia Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:45:32 -0700 Not too long ago, a message on one of the plant lists to which I belong identified Sternbergia lutea as Crocus sternbergia lutea. I thought Sternbergia is an Amaryllid and not an Iridaceae. Was that message leading me astray, or has Sternbergia really changed its information? Marguerite English - Gardening with bulbs and perennials at 3500 feet in the mountains of southern California. From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Mon Sep 15 06:26:49 2003 Message-Id: <000501c37b73$b5767280$7e89eb50@davidfen> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Amaryllis 'Multiflora' bloom report Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:25:38 +0100 Michael, Thank you for a most marvellous report. Very very interesting to read. Many thanks for providing us with it. Best Wishes, Dave (Plymouth, UK) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 01/09/03 From dirkwallace@bigpond.com Mon Sep 15 06:39:03 2003 Message-Id: <004701c37b76$b577f1c0$41fa8690@bamburyc> From: Dirk Wallace Subject: Fritillaria flowering Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:47:06 +1000 Hi Jane, > Like almost every other statement in said book, that is in error. F. > phaeanthera is an invalid synonym for F. eastwoodiae. Thanks for that. Would the same be said about their making F. roderickii a synonym of F. biflora var. grayana? They also state that this species is a naturally occurring hybrid between F. biflora and F. purdyi. Is this right? Plants of this species I have raised from Jim and Georgie Robinett seed do not show that much variation! Thanks. Regards, Dirk From dirkwallace@bigpond.com Mon Sep 15 06:48:43 2003 Message-Id: <005901c37b78$12973fe0$41fa8690@bamburyc> From: Dirk Wallace Subject: Fritillaria flowering Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:56:52 +1000 Hi Kelly, > Very beautiful flower, Dirk. Do you have a picture of the plant form. > Thanks for the view. No worries! Below are a couple of pics of the stems and also one for size comparison. The bulbs are growing in a 12 inch pot. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/friteastwoodiaestems.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/friteastwoodiaestems2.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/friteastwoodiae4.jpg Enjoy! Kind regards, Dirk From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Mon Sep 15 08:40:37 2003 Message-Id: <3F65B33C.2010807@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Fritillaria flowering Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:40:28 -0500 Wow, Dirk! Thanks, again. The plant actually looks quite sturdy, which was my curiousity concerning plant form. We get lots of wind here in the spring. Dirk Wallace wrote: >Hi Kelly, > > > >>Very beautiful flower, Dirk. Do you have a picture of the plant form. >>Thanks for the view. >> >> > > No worries! Below are a couple of pics of the stems and also one for size >comparison. The bulbs are growing in a 12 inch pot. > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/friteastwoodiaestems.jpg > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/friteastwoodiaestems2.jpg > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/friteastwoodiae4.jpg > >Enjoy! > >Kind regards, > >Dirk > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From totototo@mail.pacificcoast.net Fri Sep 12 18:04:18 2003 Message-Id: <200309122204.h8CM4Ds21335@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Dutch iris requirements Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:17:38 -700 On 11 Sep 03 at 13:27, James Waddick wrote: > Can anyone report long term success with them? Quite a long time ago, I bought a cheap mixture of Dutch irises -- in a little box from Safeway (chain grocery store), iirc (if I recall correctly). These went into a narrow strip of soil between a raised bed and a concrete sidewalk, There were three unnamed color forms in the box: white, yellow, and blue. Only the one color has survived in the long run, but it gives every evidence of being one of those plants that is a "survivor." The other colors lasted 5-10 years before finally petering out. I'm being coy about which color is the survivor because I simply don't remember! They aren't very prominent on my radar screen, you might say, and I don't really pay them much attention except to say "they're back!" (I think it is the yellow that's survived, but am not absolutely certain.) My impression is that Dutch irises (at least the surviving one) want lots of sun, a warm, dry summer soil, but not *too* warm and dry, and a heavy-ish soil with good fertility. This points up another trap for newbies to bulb growing. It's commonly said of tulips, for example, that they want "good drainage." Many garden writers then make the illogical leap to saying that tulips want a *sandy* soil. This is complete b.s. and is a snare and a delusion. Tulips don't mind a heavy soil, but they detest stagnant winter moisture. My own garden has fairly heavy soil that gets standing water in low spots during the wetter periods, once the ground is saturated. But even under these dire conditions, a bed raised only 15" above grade in one of the lower (hence wetter) spots produced good results with a number of species tulips. (Remember that I am in a winter-rainfall, summer-drought area of the PNW.) Amaryllids also seem to enjoy my rather heavy soil. Crocuses do not thrive unless sited with extreme care; they seem to be plants that enjoy a soil that is, unlike mine, downright sandy. I remember with great pleasure the late-winter carpet of Crocus tommasinianus in Doris Page's old garden, growing on nearly pure sand left by the glacier 10,000 years ago. Turning back to bulbous irises: I actually prefer the English irises to the Dutch. I have a white form "Mont Blanc" and a lovely unnamed violet-blue form, and they are persistent. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From jshields104@insightbb.com Mon Sep 15 10:34:11 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030915092837.026402c0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: question about Sternbergia and TOW Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:34:10 -0500 Hi Marguerite, Sternbergia is still a genus in the Amaryllis family! What a strange "re-classification" that would be, to move it to the Iris family! That message was most certainly leading you astray. Speaking of Sternbergia and of TOW, when I first grew Sternbergia lutea, i was convinced it would not survive outdoors here. I grew it strictly in containers. It never bloomed in a pot, not once! Fin ally, I planted some outdoors, where they bloom every autumn now. They even survived last winter, which was very wet and very cold (a real USDA zone 5 winter for a change). I am not sure that they will bloom this year, but it is still too early to know. Jim Shields in central Indiana At 09:45 PM 9/14/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Not too long ago, a message on one of the plant lists to which I belong >identified Sternbergia lutea as Crocus sternbergia lutea. I thought >Sternbergia is an Amaryllid and not an Iridaceae. Was that message >leading me astray, or has Sternbergia really changed its information? > >Marguerite English - Gardening with bulbs and perennials at 3500 feet in >the mountains of southern California. ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From Blee811@aol.com Mon Sep 15 10:49:42 2003 Message-Id: <14a.23f2a9c0.2c972b6b@aol.com> From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: question about Sternbergia and TOW Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:49:15 EDT In a message dated 9/15/2003 10:34:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, jshields104@insightbb.com writes: > I am not sure that they will bloom this year, but it is still too > early to know. Jim, my sternbergia which bloom faithfully each year in the ground in the open have not yet appeared in the Cincinnati area either. Am biding my time and watching for them. Bill Lee From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Mon Sep 15 11:11:07 2003 Message-Id: <001801c37b9b$946af250$acdbfc9e@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Fritillaria flowering Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:11:02 -0700 Hi Dirk: F. purdyi grows at some considerable distance from the plants that are usually called F. biflora var. roderickii. F. purdyi grows at some altitude, the lowest altitude populations I have ever seen being around 1200-1500' in the inner Coast Ranges of California. They generally grow on rocky serpentine ridges. F. biflora var. roderickii grows in a narrow coastal distribution, never at altitude and very far from any populations of F. purdyi. I can't imagine how this allegation of hybridization between two species that grow so far apart and in such different conditions came about. There are two populations (actually, three but I've never seen the third) of the variant on F. biflora. One grows in only one location in an old cemetery and grows to as tall as eighteen inches, the other is on coastal bluffs in grassland and grows only about four to six inches tall. There are some differences between the two in flower color also. It has been proposed that the tall variant be called F. biflora var. grayana and the short one F. biflora var. roderickii, which would help a great deal with the confusion. Diana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dirk Wallace" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 3:47 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Re: Fritillaria flowering > Hi Jane, > > > Like almost every other statement in said book, that is in error. F. > > phaeanthera is an invalid synonym for F. eastwoodiae. > > Thanks for that. > > Would the same be said about their making F. roderickii a synonym of F. > biflora var. grayana? They also state that this species is a naturally > occurring hybrid between F. biflora and F. purdyi. Is this right? Plants of > this species I have raised from Jim and Georgie Robinett seed do not show > that much variation! > > Thanks. > > Regards, > > Dirk > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Mon Sep 15 12:13:34 2003 Message-Id: <000a01c37ba4$19c68740$7e89eb50@davidfen> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Amaryllis multiflora bloom report Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:12:03 +0100 Dear All, Because of Mike's report I've just uploaded more pics of Amaryllis multiflora, especially Les Hannibal's, to my wbsite. They can be viewed at the following page. The pics show heads, buds and blooms and show how Les's hybrids shade on ageing. Amaryllis LHHDF3 is especially good, very large flowers with narrow segments, lots of veining and golden centre. Catches the light wonderfully well. http://www.theafricangarden.com/page40.html Best Wishes, Dave --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 01/09/03 From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon Sep 15 12:23:33 2003 Message-Id: <004001c37ba5$bd501bf0$53d49851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: question about Sternbergia and TOW Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:23:46 +0100 hi all I hope this all true as I have just bought some Sternbergia lutea bulbs Mark N Ireland zone 8 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Sep 15 12:39:41 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030915093812.00bbd498@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: question about Sternbergia Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:39:37 -0700 Marguerite asked, >Not too long ago, a message on one of the plant lists to which I belong >identified Sternbergia lutea as Crocus sternbergia lutea. I thought >Sternbergia is an Amaryllid and not an Iridaceae. Was that message >leading me astray, or has Sternbergia really changed its information? Certainly it was a mistake. Probably it was the same sort of "common-name" error into which people are led by mass-market catalogs that identify colchicums as "autumn crocus." Now that you mention it, I think I've seen Sternbergia lutea pictured along with fall crocuses in some such catalog. Jane McGary No Sternbergias in flower yet, and only one crocus From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Sep 15 12:49:01 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030915094026.00bcf760@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Fritillaria flowering Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:48:55 -0700 Dirk wrote, referring to "The Gardener's Guide to Growing Fritillarias" by Kevin Pratt, >Would the same be said about their making F. roderickii a synonym of F. >biflora var. grayana? They also state that this species is a naturally >occurring hybrid between F. biflora and F. purdyi. Is this right? Another error. As I understand it, F. "roderickii" is not identical with F. "grayana" -- the former is smaller and less robust in growth than the latter, which I (and some others) find to be the easiest form of F. biflora to grow. David King's account in "Bulbs of North America" says F. "roderickii" does not exceed 15 cm (6 inches) and has flowers of "a unique brown color with pale cream tepal tips." The clone 'Martha Roderick' is a selection of "roderickii" made in England. The name "F. roderickii," though not accepted in the "Jepson Manual" (the authoritative California flora), is still in use largely for political reasons, since its restricted population is on the state endangered species list and thus provides leverage for preservation of its habitat. (This is a useful conservation strategy in the USA.) F. purdyi's flowers look a lot like those of F. biflora and, at least here, they flower about the same time (late in the frit season), but I don't know what the possibility of their hybridizing is (i.e., I don't know their chromosome counts). Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From jshields104@insightbb.com Mon Sep 15 13:54:38 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030915124359.02654ff8@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Virus in Clivia Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:54:36 -0500 Hi all, I just had some clivias tested at an Indiana laboratory (Agdia, Elkhart, IN) for apparent virus infection. They did not find any of their usual list of agriculturally significant viruses, but I would like to know what viruses have been confirmed in Clivia in the past, and where these might be tested for. Can anyone help me? I don't have access to the plant pathology literature, but I can forward any lit. refs. on to the nursery inspectors. Jim Shields Viruses tested for, and their abbreviations: Alfalfa Mosaic Virus AMV Arabis Mosaic Virus ArMV Broad Bean Wilt Virus BBWV Chrysanthemum Virus B CVB Cucumber Mosaic Virus CMV Impatients Necrotic Spot Virus INSV Prunus Necrotic Ringspot Virus PNRSV Tobacco Mosaic Virus TMV Tobacco Ringspot Virus TRSV Tobacco Streak Virus TSV Tomato Aspermy Virus TAV Tomato Mosaic Virus ToMV Tomato Ringspot Virus ToRSV Tomato Spotted Wilt Virus TSWV Potyvirus Group POTY ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From mysticgardn@yahoo.com Mon Sep 15 14:00:40 2003 Message-Id: <20030915180039.36366.qmail@web40502.mail.yahoo.com> From: Ann Marie Subject: Dutch Iris Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:00:39 -0700 (PDT) I purchased several packages over the years and each time a fill another area with these bulbs they bloom as told. Each year after they bloom maybe not all but say 80% of the bulbs, since I'll put a dozen or more together in one area at a time. They always seem to bloom around Easter because I always have them on hand for flower arrangements for the tables at Easter brunch (one of many big events with my family). Ann Marie So. California, San Gabriel Valley, Zone 21 (Sunset Western Garden book) , influenced by both marine and interior air(Santa Ana winds). This makes it perfect for Citrus trees and most So African plants. I collect and sometimes sell belladonnas, nerines, oxalis, moraea, amaryllis, palms, epiphyllums, succulents and other south african bulbs. email me at mysticgardn@yahoo.com for list of bulbs and plants for sale. For home and garden sculptures go to http://www.rjunkdrawer.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software From totototo@mail.pacificcoast.net Sat Sep 13 17:48:46 2003 Message-Id: <200309132148.h8DLmh301353@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Dutch iris requirements Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 15:04:07 -700 On 12 Sep 03 at 10:05, Diane Whitehead wrote: > So far we have had success reported from Australia, Texas and New > Mexico. > > A couple of nurseries in California say they will naturalize easily > and multiply rapidly. One of these is just north of San Francisco > in grape country. > > Other successful places mentioned on the web: Las Vegas, Oklahoma. > > All these places seem to me to have high summer heat in common. > > Maybe digging the bulbs up after flowering keeps them warmer than > if they stayed in the ground where the soil insulates them. > > OK. I'm going to experiment. I'll get back to you in a couple of > years. Knowing something of your garden, Diane, I'd say the trouble *you* have is due to your sandy, lean soil and the shadiness of your garden. And don't forget that trees not only throw shade, but send out inquisitive roots that exhaust the soil for meters in all directions. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada "To co-work is human, to cow-ork, bovine." From jglatt@ptd.net Tue Sep 16 08:54:33 2003 Message-Id: <000301c37c53$15c3f740$b621bacc@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: Tigridia? Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:04:36 -0400 When I was in Holland in August of 2002 there was a field of tigridia at the end of the road that Hotel de Nachtegaal was on. Flowering beautifully. They were all chopped down and harvested not even a week after I arrived. There was a nice display of them at the Floriade also. Has anyone grown them? Not that I'm planning on growing them here in New Jersey. But I'm writing them up for my book, and just realized that none of the California, Texas, New Mexico "bulbs I am growing/ have grown" messages make any mention of this extravagant, showy, Mexican flower. And I would have thought it would be suitable. There was a field of soft yellow homeria, and another of peachy orange ones within walking distance of the hotel too. Judy in New Jersey, where today is a break in the rain before the hurricane and its weather arrives. I'll take advantage and plant more bulbs. From tony@plantdel.com Tue Sep 16 09:37:00 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20030916093641.029bf008@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: Tigridia? Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:36:41 -0400 Judy: I have ordered and grown Tigridias from Dutch sources and never had any overwinter here in NC. Conversely, those that we grew from wild collected seed from Yucca Do (5000' elevation in Mexico) have grown and multiplied each year. These are all growing in the very same part of our rock garden. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Tue Sep 16 11:32:11 2003 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476D33A68@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Tigridia? Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:41:09 -0500 Hi Judy: Good point. I tried Tigridia in Ft. Worth They seemed to get spider mites to the extent that the flower display was affected. They were not ground hardy and never matched the displays that I saw in the Las Cruces Tropical Botanic Garden (now the Robert and Catherine Wilson Botanical Garden) among the cloud forests of southern Costa Rica. I can't recall seeing them in any of the landscapes on Galveston Island ... I wonder why? Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: Judy Glattstein [mailto:jglatt@ptd.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 8:05 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Tigridia? When I was in Holland in August of 2002 there was a field of tigridia at the end of the road that Hotel de Nachtegaal was on. Flowering beautifully. They were all chopped down and harvested not even a week after I arrived. There was a nice display of them at the Floriade also. Has anyone grown them? Not that I'm planning on growing them here in New Jersey. But I'm writing them up for my book, and just realized that none of the California, Texas, New Mexico "bulbs I am growing/ have grown" messages make any mention of this extravagant, showy, Mexican flower. And I would have thought it would be suitable. There was a field of soft yellow homeria, and another of peachy orange ones within walking distance of the hotel too. Judy in New Jersey, where today is a break in the rain before the hurricane and its weather arrives. I'll take advantage and plant more bulbs. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Tue Sep 16 10:28:18 2003 Message-Id: <003401c37c5e$c0dc02c0$51dcfc9e@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Tigridia? Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:28:08 -0700 Hi Judy: I grow some of the Mexican Tigridias, Tigridia multiflora, T. chrysantha, T. dugesii and T. durangense. These are all small plants, but some have large flowers. They look wonderful massed in a small pot. I grow them outside in this cool coastal climate, and they do very well, although I generally try to protect them from winter rain when they are dormant. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Glattstein" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 6:04 AM Subject: [pbs] Tigridia? > When I was in Holland in August of 2002 there was a field of tigridia at the > end of the road that Hotel de Nachtegaal was on. Flowering beautifully. They > were all chopped down and harvested not even a week after I arrived. There > was a nice display of them at the Floriade also. > > Has anyone grown them? Not that I'm planning on growing them here in New > Jersey. But I'm writing them up for my book, and just realized that none of > the California, Texas, New Mexico "bulbs I am growing/ have grown" messages > make any mention of this extravagant, showy, Mexican flower. And I would > have thought it would be suitable. > > There was a field of soft yellow homeria, and another of peachy orange ones > within walking distance of the hotel too. > > Judy in New Jersey, where today is a break in the rain before the hurricane > and its weather arrives. I'll take advantage and plant more bulbs. > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com Tue Sep 16 10:44:20 2003 Message-Id: From: Nan Sterman Subject: Tigridia? Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:44:12 -0700 Judy, I have some tigridia growing in my garden here in the San Diego area. They came from Home Depot as I recall, rather than a high-end catalog or other specialty resource. They pop up every year, showing their rather gaudy colors and then, disappear. Well drained soil, full sun, water once a week or so. No special treatment. I am never quite sure whether they are exquisite or horrendous or a combination of both... perhaps that is the definition of gaudy. Let me know if I can help you beyond this description. Nan >When I was in Holland in August of 2002 there was a field of tigridia at the >end of the road that Hotel de Nachtegaal was on. Flowering beautifully. They >were all chopped down and harvested not even a week after I arrived. There >was a nice display of them at the Floriade also. > >Has anyone grown them? Not that I'm planning on growing them here in New >Jersey. But I'm writing them up for my book, and just realized that none of >the California, Texas, New Mexico "bulbs I am growing/ have grown" messages >make any mention of this extravagant, showy, Mexican flower. And I would >have thought it would be suitable. > >There was a field of soft yellow homeria, and another of peachy orange ones >within walking distance of the hotel too. > >Judy in New Jersey, where today is a break in the rain before the hurricane >and its weather arrives. I'll take advantage and plant more bulbs. > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php -- +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Nan Sterman Plant Soup (TM) PO Box 231034 Encinitas, CA 92023 760.634.2902 (voice) Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com 760.634.2957 (fax) +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Sep 16 12:32:32 2003 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Tigridia? Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:32:30 -0700 The tigridias that I bought in one of those Dutch bulb prepacks lived for many years here. I didn't take note of when they eventually failed to appear. It may have been because the shrubs next to them grew too large. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From Theladygardens@aol.com Tue Sep 16 17:50:43 2003 Message-Id: From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Bluebells? Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:50:31 EDT I have just dug up many bulblets from some bluebells I planted about 4 years ago. I am embarrassed to say I don't really know what they are. I should have tried to figure that out when they were in bloom. I got them at a site where a house was being demolished to build a new one. The owner told us they were bluebells and I could have all I could dig up in 1 hour before the tractors tore everything out. My husband and I got just about every one and planted them. They are very pretty a medium blue, grow well in Northern Calif, have no summer watering, bloom in early spring. Would there be any interest in them if I sent them to the bulb exchange? Carolyn in Los Gatos From Theladygardens@aol.com Tue Sep 16 17:55:25 2003 Message-Id: <5f.3ef5a5cf.2c98e0be@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Treasurers address Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:55:10 EDT I didn't put Jennifer's new address in the proper place to find it again. My computer has been in the shop and I lost what was on it. Could someone please put it on the internet again, I may not be the only one who can't find it and needs to send a check. Carolyn Craft From gatogordo@webtv.net Tue Sep 16 22:15:55 2003 Message-Id: <25014-3F67C3DA-8579@storefull-2318.public.lawson.webtv.net> From: gatogordo@webtv.net (Chato Massey) Subject: Tigrida Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:15:54 -0500 (CDT) Last Spring, I planted several tigrida that I got either from Yucca Du or Plant Delights. I put them at the sloping base of a liveoak tree in rich loamy soil where they got bright filtered light all day. They were deeply soaked every 5-7 days. Two of the three plants put up some very scraggly sparse foliage and the other did nothing. There was never even the hint of a blossom. I was afraid that full sun in our very harsh summers would be too much for them. What did I do wrong? Do they need to be kept very moist? Companion plants were Cypella Herbertii and several oxallis and they all bloomed all season. Nearby, in the same bed, iris japonica are thick and thrive. Theresa Massey Austin TX, Zone 8B, 20-110F, approx 30" annual rainfall (long droughts punctuated by flash floods) From tony@plantdel.com Wed Sep 17 07:09:40 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20030917070926.029d4f80@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: Tigrida Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:09:26 -0400 Theresa: I don't think the tigridias are going to grow well in light shade. I would try full sun for at least half a day. At 09:15 PM 9/16/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >Last Spring, I planted several tigrida that I got either from Yucca Du >or Plant Delights. I put them at the sloping base of a liveoak tree in >rich loamy soil where they got bright filtered light all day. They were >deeply soaked every 5-7 days. Two of the three plants put up some very >scraggly sparse foliage and the other did nothing. There was never even >the hint of a blossom. > >I was afraid that full sun in our very harsh summers would be too much >for them. What did I do wrong? Do they need to be kept very moist? >Companion plants were Cypella Herbertii and several oxallis and they all >bloomed all season. Nearby, in the same bed, iris japonica are thick >and thrive. > >Theresa Massey > >Austin TX, Zone 8B, 20-110F, approx 30" annual rainfall (long droughts >punctuated by flash floods) > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com Wed Sep 17 10:33:40 2003 Message-Id: From: Nan Sterman Subject: Tigrida Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:33:36 -0700 I think this might be a case of too much TLC. Mine grow in hot, full Southern California sun, poor soil and little water. Try being a little tougher with them.... Nan >Last Spring, I planted several tigrida that I got either from Yucca Du >or Plant Delights. I put them at the sloping base of a liveoak tree in >rich loamy soil where they got bright filtered light all day. They were >deeply soaked every 5-7 days. Two of the three plants put up some very >scraggly sparse foliage and the other did nothing. There was never even >the hint of a blossom. > >I was afraid that full sun in our very harsh summers would be too much >for them. What did I do wrong? Do they need to be kept very moist? >Companion plants were Cypella Herbertii and several oxallis and they all >bloomed all season. Nearby, in the same bed, iris japonica are thick >and thrive. > >Theresa Massey > >Austin TX, Zone 8B, 20-110F, approx 30" annual rainfall (long droughts >punctuated by flash floods) > > -- +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Nan Sterman Plant Soup (TM) PO Box 231034 Encinitas, CA 92023 760.634.2902 (voice) Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com 760.634.2957 (fax) +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= From lizwat@earthlink.net Wed Sep 17 11:37:04 2003 Message-Id: <3F688031.77196F69@earthlink.net> From: Elizabeth Waterman Subject: Tigrida Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:39:29 -0700 Hi, Anther comment on shade and Tigridias from the Berkeley area.  Here they grow beautifully in full sun or shade and anything in between.  Those that are in the ground are in full sun on a dry hill. At home I have some in a container with tuberous begonia in the shade. (They bloom at different times)  Also in a container in part shade.  None of them gets a lot of water, neither do they go completely dry.  I think too much moisture would rot them out. Liz W Tony Avent wrote: > Theresa: > >         I don't think the tigridias are going to grow well > in light shade.  I > would try full sun for at least half a day.   > > At 09:15 PM 9/16/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > > >Last Spring, I planted several tigrida that I got either > from Yucca Du > >or Plant Delights.  I put them at the sloping base of a > liveoak tree in > >rich loamy soil where they got bright filtered light all > day.  They were > >deeply soaked every 5-7 days. Two of the three plants put > up some very > >scraggly sparse foliage and the other did nothing.  There > was never even > >the hint of a blossom.   > > > >I was afraid that full sun in our very harsh summers > would be too much > >for them.  What did I do wrong?  Do they need to be kept > very moist? > >Companion plants were Cypella Herbertii and several > oxallis and they all > >bloomed all season.  Nearby, in the same bed, iris > japonica are thick > >and thrive. > > > >Theresa Massey > > > >Austin TX, Zone 8B, 20-110F, approx 30" annual rainfall > (long droughts > >punctuated by flash floods)   > >  > > > >_______________________________________________ > >pbs mailing list > >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > Tony Avent > Plant Delights Nursery @ > Juniper Level Botanic Garden > 9241 Sauls Road > Raleigh, NC  27603  USA > Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F > Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F > USDA Hardiness Zone 7b > email tony@plantdelights.com > website  http://www.plantdel.com > phone 919 772-4794 > fax  919 772-4752 > "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it > myself...at least > three times" - Avent > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From totototo@mail.pacificcoast.net Mon Sep 15 14:10:13 2003 Message-Id: <200309151809.h8FI9qo09892@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: question about Sternbergia Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:25:30 -700 On 14 Sep 03 at 21:45, Marguerite English wrote: > Not too long ago, a message on one of the plant lists to which I > belong identified Sternbergia lutea as Crocus sternbergia lutea. I > thought Sternbergia is an Amaryllid and not an Iridaceae. Was that > message leading me astray, or has Sternbergia really changed its > information? To say a sternbergia is a crocus is complete b.s. I am willing to bet that the person asserting this nonsense was very definite about it: it seems like it's always the folks who don't know very much that are absolutely positive about what they know. Newbies: get a basic book on botany or plant identification, and bone up a little on how the various families differ. Among bulbs, the three families Iridaceae, Amaryllidaceae, and Liliaceae account for a pretty large chunk of what we grow, and you will be a better gardener once you've learned to distinguish them. In particular, each of these families has at least one well known crocus-like genus. In the Iridaceae, Crocus and Romulea; in the Amaryllidaceae, Sternbergia; and in the Liliaceae, Colchicum. It's worth your while studying these from the point of view of family identification. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada "To co-work is human, to cow-ork, bovine." From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Thu Sep 18 07:05:00 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030918210825.00a83df0@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Variegated hymenocallis?? Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:08:25 +1000 Howdy All, Is anyone familiar with a variegated Hymenocallis? A friend has offered me a bulb, but I have never heard of one before. I know that there are a number of us here on the PBS who collect Hymenocallis so I figured you'd be the peoples to ask Any differences in cultivation requirements or frost tolerance etc? My current Ismene xFestalis (they're often called Hymenocallis here, so I am wondering whether my friends plant may be actually a variegated Ismene?) grow in the ground here, plus I have a couple of species Hymenocallis and a hybrid or two. So far they have lived through winters here in pots, but I'm expecting them to do much better now they have the insulation of the ground. Here's hoping . I do have a glasshouse if necessary and I am rather partial to variegated plants. So is her plant likely to be what she says it is, or has she mixed up names completely? Thanks in anticipation. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Thu Sep 18 09:18:45 2003 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476D33A73@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Variegated hymenocallis?? Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:19:01 -0500 Hi Paul: We've got some very nice variegated Hymenocallis caribaea that we use in our aquatic display containers. Can't help you out on hardiness; we pamper these along in a greenhouse aquatic tank in the winter in an effort to bulk up numbers. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: Paul Tyerman [mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au] Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 6:08 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Variegated hymenocallis?? Howdy All, Is anyone familiar with a variegated Hymenocallis? A friend has offered me a bulb, but I have never heard of one before. I know that there are a number of us here on the PBS who collect Hymenocallis so I figured you'd be the peoples to ask Any differences in cultivation requirements or frost tolerance etc? My current Ismene xFestalis (they're often called Hymenocallis here, so I am wondering whether my friends plant may be actually a variegated Ismene?) grow in the ground here, plus I have a couple of species Hymenocallis and a hybrid or two. So far they have lived through winters here in pots, but I'm expecting them to do much better now they have the insulation of the ground. Here's hoping . I do have a glasshouse if necessary and I am rather partial to variegated plants. So is her plant likely to be what she says it is, or has she mixed up names completely? Thanks in anticipation. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Sep 18 09:29:46 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Variegated hymenocallis?? Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:29:38 -0500 Dear Paul; Hymenocallis caribaea is fairly common and available in a highly variegated form. Fairly tender to tropical, but sold cheaply as a water garden 'annual" - i.e. buy in spring, let it grow and bloom then freeze over winter. I saw some last weekend for about $7 or 8 a nice pot full. Bloom is fairly sparse. Even though it is normally sold as Hymenocallis caribaea, this name may be suspect. The variegation is quite bright and nice. Wide vertical stripes with good contrast. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Thu Sep 18 09:33:31 2003 Message-Id: <004701c37dea$07ae7980$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Variegated hymenocallis?? Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:37:39 -0400 Hello, I believe these to be clones of a variegated H. littoralis, which would be indicative of the conditions that Boyce describes, as would be found in the bayous of the Deep South where they are do grow. They are also from coastal swales. Kevin Preuss ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boyce Tankersley" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 9:19 AM Subject: RE: [pbs] Variegated hymenocallis?? Hi Paul: We've got some very nice variegated Hymenocallis caribaea that we use in our aquatic display containers. Can't help you out on hardiness; we pamper these along in a greenhouse aquatic tank in the winter in an effort to bulk up numbers. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: Paul Tyerman [mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au] Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 6:08 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Variegated hymenocallis?? Howdy All, Is anyone familiar with a variegated Hymenocallis? A friend has offered me a bulb, but I have never heard of one before. I know that there are a number of us here on the PBS who collect Hymenocallis so I figured you'd be the peoples to ask Any differences in cultivation requirements or frost tolerance etc? My current Ismene xFestalis (they're often called Hymenocallis here, so I am wondering whether my friends plant may be actually a variegated Ismene?) grow in the ground here, plus I have a couple of species Hymenocallis and a hybrid or two. So far they have lived through winters here in pots, but I'm expecting them to do much better now they have the insulation of the ground. Here's hoping . I do have a glasshouse if necessary and I am rather partial to variegated plants. So is her plant likely to be what she says it is, or has she mixed up names completely? Thanks in anticipation. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Thu Sep 18 09:40:13 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030918234333.00796d90@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Variegated hymenocallis?? Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 23:43:33 +1000 > >We've got some very nice variegated Hymenocallis caribaea that we use in our aquatic display containers. Can't help you out on hardiness; we pamper these along in a greenhouse aquatic tank in the winter in an effort to bulk up numbers. > Boyce, Thanks. I've come across that particular name while Net searching as well, also in aquatic displays so I have to wonder if associated with you? A lovely photo of it growing in a bowl with a waterlily.... the striped leaves topped by the classic white hymenocallis flower. I've also been contacted by another Aussie over in Western Oz rather than Queensland (where my friend is) and they bought them over there as well. We here in Canberra tend not to get a lot of interesting things because we're much colder than the most of the rest of the Australian state Capitals. Fair enough it's true, but frustrating when we addicted collectors can't get our hands onto them. Nice to hear that others know of these, so far more likely that what is being marketed here as variegated Hymenocallis actually IS going to be that.... so often we see things labelled as something and it most definitely isn't (but then again, that happens anywhere in the world I imagine). I don't know what the hardiness ratings of most of the Hymenocallis are, but so far the few I have tried have survived OK. I think by the sound of it if I get a bulb from my friend I'll put it into the glasshouse until I can increase it's numbers a little, then try it outside. Until the email from her I had no idea that variegated Hymenocallis even existed. Thanks again for taking the time to respond. Greatly appreciated. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Thu Sep 18 10:00:53 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030919000414.00a77e90@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Variegated hymenocallis?? Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:04:14 +1000 Kevin and Jim, Thank you both for taking the time to respond. As I said in the response to Boyce... I just had never heard of a variegated Hymenocallis. I definitely picked the right place to ask by the sound of it!! Thanks again. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Thu Sep 18 22:10:17 2003 Message-Id: <20030919021004.85703.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Variegated hymenocallis?? Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:10:04 -0700 (PDT) Paul, I had one that I got locally here in Los Angeles and I lost it over the winter to rot. I left the pots outside and I did not tip them over as I usually do for things that like to be dry. Our winters rarely get much below 40F but they were mush. I'm sure (or rather assume) they can take much colder temps if they are dry. I would not suggest wintering them in a pond (or such). ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From osthill@htc.net Fri Sep 19 00:32:11 2003 Message-Id: <3F6A85D5.1040301@htc.net> From: Lisa and Alec Flaum Subject: Tigridia? Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 23:28:05 -0500 Hi Judy, I have never grown these, but do have an interesting reference. "Bulbs for Summer Bloom" by John Philip Baumgardt, has them hardy to zone 5 (Kansas City, MO). He is writing from experience, so presumably it worked for him. Perhaps he and Jim Waddick have hot springs under their homes? Lisa Judy Glattstein wrote: > When I was in Holland in August of 2002 there was a field of tigridia at the > end of the road that Hotel de Nachtegaal was on. Flowering beautifully. They > were all chopped down and harvested not even a week after I arrived. There > was a nice display of them at the Floriade also. > > Has anyone grown them? Not that I'm planning on growing them here in New > Jersey. But I'm writing them up for my book, and just realized that none of > the California, Texas, New Mexico "bulbs I am growing/ have grown" messages > make any mention of this extravagant, showy, Mexican flower. And I would > have thought it would be suitable. > -- Lisa Flaum Waterloo, IL central USA clay soil, Hot humid summers (to 105F, 40C) generally dry, punctuated by gully washers Cold, wet, cloudy winters, little snow cover, intense freeze/thaw cycle (-10F, -25C) From Theladygardens@aol.com Fri Sep 19 01:10:53 2003 Message-Id: <18a.1f7f5e21.2c9be9d3@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Tigridia? Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 01:10:43 EDT I have grown these very successfully in Saratoga, CA, zone 9. No special care and they were beautiful. Wish I had dug them up and moved them with me. They had morning sun, afternoon shade, some water, not much in summertime. Carolyn From jglatt@ptd.net Fri Sep 19 08:24:58 2003 Message-Id: <000301c37eaa$7a1bfae0$d621bacc@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: Oxalis adenophylla Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:35:14 -0400 While wending my way north on Route 1 in Pennsylvania (returning with a friend from a "do" at Longwood) we stopped at a garden center superstore - too many chrysanthemums, cacti & succulents, African violets - you get the picture. Of course I had to check out the wall of bulbs. Along with the usual suspects - tulips and daffodils and such - I found several cultivars of Dutch iris, Ornithogalum nutans (and yes, they were also selling O. umbellatum) AND Oxalis adenophylla. Now I have some vague memory of growing, and losing, this in Connecticut. A web search offered info that it is also a good house plant. Since it is winter-dormant, how does that work? Pot now, water once, lightly, and leave it on the floor of my cool greenhouse until spring? I'm concerned that my New Jersey clay soil will be too wet for this Chilean with its need for good drainage. BTW - the peculiar bulbs like a ball of twine were 5 for $2.49, not bad for an impulse temptation. The Dutch iris and Ornithogalum were in the 10 for $2.69. 10 for $2.99 range. Upended cardboard boxes open at the bottom with loose bulbs, so I could careful withdraw the plumpest, fattest ones. Blue sky, dry basement - as they say, prepare for the worst and hope for the best. And that's how Isabel turned out for us. regards, Judy From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Fri Sep 19 09:17:31 2003 Message-Id: <20030919131730.74627.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Cryptostephanus vansonii Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 06:17:30 -0700 (PDT) I have a few Cryptostephanus vansonii available. If anyone is interested, email me private at floralartistry2000@yahoo.com. DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL, as it will go directly to the list. Thanks. I also have a pricelist (the same from July for those interested) of some nice Clivias (seeds and plants), Sinningias (some may prove to be hardy in z7), Hippeastrum species and primary hybrids, and more. Also, if anyone has plants they have been looking for and can't find, let me know, I am very resourceful! ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Sep 19 09:55:42 2003 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Tigridia? Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:47:03 -0500 >I have never grown these, but do have an interesting reference. >"Bulbs for Summer Bloom" by John Philip Baumgardt, has them hardy to zone 5 >(Kansas City, MO). He is writing from experience, so presumably it worked >for him. Perhaps he and Jim Waddick have hot springs under their homes? Dear all; J. P. Baumgardt was an inspiration for a lot of local gardens; Great book too. I've grown mixed and color selections of Tigridia and they are either wimps or huge and much too gaudy, but never winter over for me. I admit I haven't really given their best spot, but seems the commercial bulbs are pretty uneven in quality. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jshields104@insightbb.com Fri Sep 19 10:10:14 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030919090716.0265f990@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Tigridia? Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:09:26 -0500 Hi all, That book has been an inspiration to me too! I think a .ot of the tricky bulbs he listed in the book were grown at the bask of a south-facing wall, with some protection from moisture and excellent drainage. I've never tried any Tigridia here. Nerine bowdenii may survive in places here, but has not bloomed for me. Jim Shields in central Indiana At 08:47 AM 9/19/2003 -0500, you wrote: >>I have never grown these, but do have an interesting reference. >>"Bulbs for Summer Bloom" by John Philip Baumgardt, has them hardy to zone 5 >>(Kansas City, MO). He is writing from experience, so presumably it worked >>for him. Perhaps he and Jim Waddick have hot springs under their homes? > >Dear all; > J. P. Baumgardt was an inspiration for a lot of local gardens; > Great book too. I've grown mixed and color selections of Tigridia and > they are either wimps or huge and much too gaudy, but never winter over for me. > I admit I haven't really given their best spot, but seems the > commercial bulbs are pretty uneven in quality. > Jim W. > >-- >Dr. James W. Waddick >8871 NW Brostrom Rd. >Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 >USA >Ph. 816-746-1949 >E-fax 419-781-8594 > >Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From silverhill@yebo.co.za Fri Sep 19 10:17:22 2003 Message-Id: <027101c37eb9$08da9c60$4e7cef9b@saunders> From: "Rachel Saunders" Subject: Clivia seeds Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:17:46 +0200 I have some Clivia seeds for sale. Species are Clivia miniata, gardenii and nobilis. And then we have a number of colour selections of Clivia miniata - broad leaves, red flowers, yellow flowers, etc. We also have copies of a new book on the Drakensberg and Lesotho flora - high altitude flora mostly, and lots of orchids and bulbs included. PLEASE CONTACT ME PRIVATELY IF YOU WOULD LIKE FURTHER DETAILS. Regards Rachel Saunders Silverhill Seeds and Books rachel@silverhillseeds.co.za From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Fri Sep 19 10:24:18 2003 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476B9753C@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Unusual bulbs Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:24:34 -0500 For those who are interested, Chicago Botanic Garden has it's Bulb Catalog available on our website at chicagobotanic.org. We can mail out a limited number of items. Descriptions of all of the bulbs might be of interest also (no images available). Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org From fbiasella@watertownsavings.com Fri Sep 19 13:14:58 2003 Message-Id: <002901c37ed1$cd1e8560$55a7f10a@www.watertownsavings.com> From: "fbiasella" Subject: Cyrtanthus Search Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:16:44 -0400 Greetings from Boston, I am brand new to this list but I have looking (oogling really) at the archives pages and I am so smitten with the Cyrtanthus cultivars. I would like to know where I may obtain Cyrtanthus Eucallus and/or it's hybrids. I have tried several other people and I'm witing for replys. I figured if I expand my search base I may have better luck. The pictures which have been posted on the PBS wiki images page show that Bill Dijk grows this species and I was wondering if he exports them to the U.S.. Any help pointing me in the wright direction would be greatly appreciated. Warm Regards, Fred Biasella :o) Boston (Cambridge) MA USDA Zone 6B From jshields104@insightbb.com Fri Sep 19 16:14:46 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030919151423.0266bc70@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Hymenocallis "Big Fatty" Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:14:42 -0500 Hi all, Does anyone have a couple offsets or seedlings of Hymenocallis imperialis (a.k.a. "Big Fatty") they would be willing to part with (swap or purchase)? Jim Shields in central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From msittner@mcn.org Fri Sep 19 19:58:37 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030919163558.00cbc740@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Tigrida Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:51:08 -0700 Dear All, I am back and will write a note about South Africa soon. I am trying to catch up (only 500+ emails as I unsubscribed or set to nomail most of the lists while I was gone. I didn't do that for PBS though so will be getting through all the e-mails one of these days. I grew Tigridia in Stockton California for years and years in my raised beds with my perennials. It bloomed without fail every summer and even though gaudy I loved it. I brought some with me to the north coast and they bloomed the first year and then departed. I assumed it was either that they hated our extreme winter rainfall or they didn't get enough sun or heat or summer water in my garden here. (lots of choices) I have some now in a pot thinking I could shelter them from the winter rain that way. It's a big pot too, but Rob Hamilton said that they didn't like pots and would prefer being in the ground. They are not doing very well in the pot, meaning I have only had a couple of blooms so I am inclined to believe Rob knows what he is talking about. Tigridia was requested as a topic of the week and Alberto promised an introduction for it. Since it has come up and the PBS board member for this week has been unable with a family death to introduce a topic perhaps we can continue to talk about it and maybe Alberto can supply us with something. There are some really nice Tigridia pictures on the Wiki and I know Paul Tyerman and Rob Hamilton have success with Tigridias so perhaps they can share their experiences too. Mary Sue From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Fri Sep 19 21:07:18 2003 Message-Id: <3F6BA838.9000506@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Welcome Back Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:07:04 -0500 Welcome back, Mary Sue! We look forward to your chronicles. Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Dear All, > > I am back and will write a note about South Africa soon. -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From gatogordo@webtv.net Fri Sep 19 21:59:24 2003 Message-Id: <20835-3F6BB47A-57@storefull-2314.public.lawson.webtv.net> From: gatogordo@webtv.net (Chato Massey) Subject: variegated hymenocallis Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:59:22 -0500 (CDT) Stokes Tropicals sells "rhizomes" of variegated hymenocallis littoralis.... Theresa Massey Austin TX Zone 8B From msittner@mcn.org Sat Sep 20 01:04:09 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030919212741.00c0c4b0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Treasurers address Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 21:37:43 -0700 Dear Carolyn, I don't see that anyone answered your request for Jennifer's new address although someone may have written you privately. It is: Jennifer Hildebrand , Treasurer 2000 SW 16 St. Lincoln, NE 68522 The PBS web site that I put up until we find someone willing to take this on as a project and do a more complete job has a membership form on it which lists her address as the contact person for PBS. So if you misplace it again you can always look there: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/ and more specifically: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/MembershipForm7-03.htm Just a reminder for those of you on our list who have been wishing you could participate in the BX, but haven't yet joined the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are a new member joining from October 1st on you will qualify for the BX right away and new member benefits (left over BX offerings), will get the fourth newsletter of the year (online I think or maybe mailed) and will have your membership last through December 2004. The cost is $20 for US members and $25 for International members. Mary Sue From meenglis@cts.com Sat Sep 20 01:34:06 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20030919223031.00bac880@mailbox2.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Treasurers address Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:31:52 -0700 I will mail these.... The fall newsletter may be late, but it will get there. At 09:37 PM 9/19/2003 -0700, you wrote: >will get the fourth newsletter of the year (online I think or maybe >mailed) and will have yo Marguerite English, Editor: 'The Bulb Garden' Pacific Bulb Society For information and membership forms, view http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/ From meenglis@cts.com Sat Sep 20 01:38:50 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20030919223247.01aceee8@mailbox2.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Ray English 7-24-39 to 9-15-03 Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:38:20 -0700 Only a few of you have met Ray, but just for those who did: Ray died Monday morning of a massive heart attack. There were no previous symptoms or problems. He did tell me on the way to the ambulance that he had 'a few' pains the previous two weeks but didn't bother to tell me. So those tough guys out there who think you can ignore such things away, please pay attention for the sake of your loved ones! He was a wonderful man, and I was blessed to be with him for more than 33 years. Marguerite From geophyte@sbcglobal.net Sat Sep 20 02:55:29 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20030919235150.00a60550@pop.sbcglobal.net> From: Jamie Subject: Unusual bulbs Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:53:27 -0700 Boyce, I'm sorry to bother you, however I cannot figure out which link from the main page http://www.chicagobotanic.org/ will take me to the bulb list. Thank you, Jamie From msittner@mcn.org Sat Sep 20 11:10:45 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030920075133.00de3650@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Shy bloomers--TOW Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:05:47 -0700 Dear All, I apologize to Marguerite when I didn't see that she did indeed introduce a topic of the week this week. No one has responded to it. So does that mean that no one in this group has been able to get bulbs described as "shy bloomers" to bloom? What about Childanthus fragrans? Anyone get it to bloom every year? Moraea ramossissima? Perhaps we can lump this topic with all those plants that are only supposed to bloom after a fire. Are some of those plants blooming in cultivation for some of you? I learned in South Africa that a whole lot of Watsonias only bloom after a fire. I knew that was true of Cyrtanthus, but hadn't realized it was true for some species of Watsonia. We saw hillsides of leaves in South Africa of one species that Henry Pauw told us rarely had more than a bloom or two, but after a fire the whole hillsides was covered with blooms. I can't remember which species it was. I was surprised to hear Rod Saunders describe Moraea lurida in a talk as one that only blooms after a fire as once mine started blooming it has bloomed every year. Since Rachel told me that they always collect seed of that includes both purple and yellow ones and I have only ever seen yellow ones from those I have grown from their seed I am wondering if the purple ones need a fire to bloom and not the yellow ones. Just kidding but it is a puzzle. Alberto has sent me an introduction for Tigridia so we will talk about it soon, but I am trying to drum up some business for this topic before the week is over first. Mary Sue From dells@voicenet.com Sat Sep 20 11:04:59 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 42 Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:07:05 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 42" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Mary Sue Ittner: Bulbs/Corms: 1. Babiana nana angustifolia--Couldn't get anyone to tell me what this really is during the topic of the week. It is very reliable, smells like cinnamon, was purchased under this name, picture in wiki--W 2. Calochortus uniflorus--One of the easier to grow, also less spectacular. But blooms a long time for me in Northern California and I like it. It also expands by bulblets. 3. Calochortus vestae--Beautiful white Mariposa flowers, likes good water and fertilizer during its winter growing period. This one expands by bulblets unlike most so that is why there are a lot of this I am giving away. So you should get a good value for your $2 handling charges. 4. Dichelostemma capitatum--Grown from Northwest native seed 98-197--Dwarf form of this species (2-6"), found on North facing open slopes among oak and stunted pines in soil from fragmented shale at 5600 feet. 5. Geissorhiza inaequalis--Purple flowers, long bloom in winter. In my climate potentially weedy, but it's not big enough to replace anything and very charming. It produces a lot of small cormlets around the mother corm, but these are blooming size. 6. Gladiolus communis byzantinus--hasn't bloomed yet so haven't confirmed what it is--W 7. Gladiolus geardii--Look at its picture on the wiki. Blooms in spring, but isn't dormant long. 8. Gladiolus sp.--A winter growing mystery South African type for those who like to gamble. Could be G. tristis, but I grow so many I'm can't tell the dormant ones apart except this one does produce tiny cormlets around the base 9. Hesperantha cucullata A--Blooms at night when you need to bring it in to watch it perform. Fragrant. Winter growing 10. Hesperantha cucullata B--Form I grew from seed from Wayne Roderick and my seed, hopefully is pure. This one opens late afternoon so you can enjoy it outside and is not fragrant. 11. Herbertia lahue--winter growing, blue-purple flowers early summer 12. Ixia frederickii--think this one has been put into something else known for different color flowers, cormlets, red-orange, G. Duncan says can go in ground, late blooming, winter growing 13. Ixia polystachya--late blooming winter growing Ixia with nice markings, I grow two kinds and lost track of which this is 14. Onixotis stricta--White flowers, winter growing, normally found in very wet places 15. Ornithogalum sp.--Seed was misnamed. Blooms after the leaves have shriveled early summer. Small, white, no idea of species 16. Oxalis flava--yellow, winter growing, fall blooming 17. Oxalis incarnata--more of this I offered before, better in shade, creamy white flowers, long blooming if you attend to its needs, potentially weedy 18. Oxalis luteola MV5567-- I believe this is what this is. I left the MV number off when I was setting it aside. If so, it is one of my favorites, nice yellow flowers for a long time. 1.5" brt yellow flowers, 13 km s of Nieuwodtville 19. Oxalis obtusa MV 6235 20. Oxalis obtusa pink--This is that one with grayish leaves that multiplies rapidly From Mark Wilcox: 21. Bulbs of Chionodoxa nana: Blooming size and offsets. 1 - 3 flowers typical. Spring grower. For the next six items, because of their weight and the added postage this requires, we ask for a donation of $4.00 per item instead of the usual $2.00: From Lee Poulsen: 22. Tubers of Sinningia tubiflora 23. Bulbs of Ipheion uniflorum 'Alberto Castillo' From Jim Waddick: 24. Bulbs of Cyrtanthus sanguineus From Marvin Ellenbecker: 25. Near blooming-sized bulbs of Sprekelia formosissima 26. Large bulbs of Amaryllis belladonna 27. Large offsets of Hippeastrum papilio Thank you, Mary Sue, Lee, Jim, Mark, and Marvin !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From dells@voicenet.com Sat Sep 20 11:05:14 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: BX 42 Packages in the mail. Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:07:06 -0400 Dear All, The packages for BX 41 are finally in the mail. Sorry for the delay; I have been insanely busy. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From jennifer.hildebrand@att.net Sat Sep 20 11:11:02 2003 Message-Id: <20030920151100.62796200F4@happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu> From: jennifer.hildebrand@att.net Subject: Unusual bulbs - Chicago Botanical Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 15:10:52 +0000 Hi Jaime & all, After a bit of playing I found the list yesterday - but I've noticed that a link has now been added to the main page. Just go to the address that Boyce provided - http://www.chicagobotanic.org/ - and look for the link that says "Bulb Bazaar is October 10-12". Alternatively, you can just follow this link: http://www.chicagobotanic.org/bulb/index.html Best, Jennifer From onager@midtown.net Sat Sep 20 13:29:10 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030920102638.01784a18@pop3.midtown.net> From: Joyce Miller Subject: Ray English Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:28:32 -0700 Dear Marguerite, Please accept my condolences for your loss. Sincerely, Joyce Miller, Sacramento, CA From angelopalm69@inwind.it Sat Sep 20 14:46:31 2003 Message-Id: <002901c37fa7$365f7f40$45e8623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Shy bloomers Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 20:15:43 +0200 I am at the point to believe that Chlidanthus fragrans isn't a flowering bulb ! I have many from three years that multiply at allarming rate, but never flowered. I have tried to keep a pot totally dry in winter, as someone suggested me, but no result at all. This is a species I will give up soon ! Hymenocallis x festalis, from 1994 in the ground, has turned in a massive clump of maybe 15 bulbs, sends stalks every summer but it aborts the flowers regularly. This summer I have watered them continuosly, thinking it was my summer heat and drought to cause this, but no result again. Probably I have to move the bulbs in a partial shade, as now are in full baking sun. Cyrtanthus elatus (Vallota) flowered for me only one time, countless years ago then nothing. I read this species need a bit of time to set in, but I have given even too much ! Probably from 7 years in the ground. Maybe this species should be grown in a small pot to be well rootbounded, as with some amaryllids this seems to be the key to stimulate flowering. Tulbaghia simmleri simply can't stand my summers and blooms just in early spring and in autumn, but it's reliable. Angelo Porcelli Italy From c-mueller@tamu.edu Sat Sep 20 15:31:49 2003 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: Ray English Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:31:39 -0500 Dear Marguerite, I, too, was very saddened to hear of Ray's passing, and hope you will be surrounded with loving and supportive friends and family. Sincerely, Cynthia W. Mueller >>> onager@midtown.net 09/20/03 12:28PM >>> Dear Marguerite, Please accept my condolences for your loss. Sincerely, Joyce Miller, Sacramento, CA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From SheriAnnRicherson@exoticgardening.com Sat Sep 20 20:01:55 2003 Message-Id: <032a01c37fd3$91563980$0100a8c0@sheri> From: "SheriAnnRicherson" Subject: Shy bloomers--TOW Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 19:01:54 -0500 I have been looking for Childanthus fragrans since 1993. Can anyone tell me where I can get it? Thanks, Sheri Do you like gardening? Then visit http://www.exoticgardening.com Do you need a freelance writer, editor, photographer or speaker? Contact Sheri Ann Richerson (765) 674-6167 SheriAnnRicherson@exoticgardening.com http://sheriannricherson.exoticgardening.com From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Sep 21 11:00:47 2003 Message-Id: <3F6DBD1D.9020706@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: colchicums Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:00:45 -0400 Some images of today's blooms in the garden. Some of the flowers survived Isabel's wrath rather well. Arnold New Jersey http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_cilicicum.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_major3.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_pannonicum6.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_sibthorpii.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_sibthorpii1.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_umbrosum2.JPG From jacque@baclace.net Sun Sep 21 11:38:52 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030921083427.031c78f0@xenon> From: Jacque Baclace Subject: Bluebells? Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:34:27 -0700 Hi, Carolyn. Your bluebells sound nice. Jacque At 05:50 PM 9/16/2003 EDT, you wrote: > >I have just dug up many bulblets from some bluebells I planted about 4 years >ago. I am embarrassed to say I don't really know what they are. I should >have tried to figure that out when they were in bloom. I got them at a site >where a house was being demolished to build a new one. The owner told us they >were bluebells and I could have all I could dig up in 1 hour before the tractors >tore everything out. My husband and I got just about every one and planted >them. They are very pretty a medium blue, grow well in Northern Calif, have no >summer watering, bloom in early spring. >Would there be any interest in them if I sent them to the bulb exchange? >Carolyn in Los Gatos >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > From jglatt@ptd.net Sun Sep 21 18:29:04 2003 Message-Id: <000301c38091$3834bf20$a6d3bacc@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: mystery baby bulbs, update Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:39:28 -0400 I had first posted about the 42 pea-sized gray skinned baby bulbs I found in a lycoris pot a couple of weeks ago. Since I have a difficult time throwing plants away (but I'm getting better, especially as my greenhouse is getting very full and everything is not yet moved indoors for winter) anyhow, I put all 42 in a half-flat, still outdoors. Today I noticed that many of them are sending up a single leaf. There is a light green quasi-membranous sheathing wrapper encircling the base of a medium green leaf that is C-shaped in cross section. Any suggestions? TIA Judy in New Jersey From eagle85@flash.net Sun Sep 21 22:28:54 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Veltheimia deasii Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:18:49 -0700 I have a mature Veltheimia deasii sending up a flower spike - so what is unusual about that? NOTHING! The interesting part is that there are eleven (11) leaves which. are narrower and more undulated than V. capensis. That is several more than Veltheimia capensis. YET, the "experts" are maintaining that it is just a variation of V. capensis. I can hardly wait for the thing to bloom so that I can compare it with V. capensis. Does anyone have any thoughts on the subject? Doug Westfall From msittner@mcn.org Sun Sep 21 23:57:33 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030921203244.00dec430@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: New members of the list and the TOW Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:55:18 -0700 Dear All, A lot of people have joined our list in my absence and I signed up quite a few people who I met in South Africa after I got back. Welcome all and I hope some of you will be brave enough to introduce yourself to us and tell us what you grow and what you are interested in. It is the best way to find others who share your interests. Some of you won't believe it since I write so often now, but I was reluctant to join my first bulb list because I didn't want to introduce myself. But eventually my curiosity got the best of me and I started asking questions which has led to a wealth of information gained and so many wonderful friendships with others who share my passion. In our early archives there are many introductions from some of the rest of us. A number of them can be found in this archive. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2002-July/subject.html and some of us have wiki pages in addition: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Contributors I'd like to announce the rest of the topics of the week for September. TOW for the new members stands for the topic of the week. Each week in addition to whatever else anyone wants to bring up we discuss a topic. Most of these have been suggested by fellow participants and I often am able to find someone who is willing to provide us with an introduction. We have been very fortunate to have had some splendid introductions. If some of you who have newly joined have ideas for future topics please email me privately. This next week will be Tigridia which was started already. We will continue the discussion when I post Alberto's introduction tomorrow and hopefully there will be a few more comments as well. The following week's topic will be the recent IBSA Symposium and visiting in South Africa. Lauw de Jager has already written something about it and I am asking many of the rest of you who attended to share your impressions. I have enough for quite a few emails myself so decided it might be good just to make it a topic. Mary Sue PBS list administrator and TOW coordinator From silverhill@yebo.co.za Mon Sep 22 04:21:00 2003 Message-Id: <01d701c380df$e34de0a0$ba7cef9b@saunders> From: "Rachel Saunders" Subject: Veltheimia deasii Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 07:47:58 +0200 Dear Doug I must say that I have never heard of this Veltheimia. Where does it come from? Veltheimia capensis comes from a very wide range of localities - from 50km north of Cape Town right into the Little Karoo and up to the Orange River on the border with Namibia. This means that it grows in some pretty wet areas right through to an area that gets maybe 100mm (4 inches) of rain, so it is possible that forms from different areas have variable characteristics. It will be interesting to see the flower. Regards Rachel Saunders Cape Town ----- Original Message ----- From: Douglas Westfall To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 4:18 AM Subject: [pbs] Veltheimia deasii > I have a mature Veltheimia deasii sending up a flower spike - so what is > unusual about that? NOTHING! The interesting part is that there are eleven > (11) leaves which. are narrower and more undulated than V. capensis. That > is several more than Veltheimia capensis. YET, the "experts" are > maintaining that it is just a variation of V. capensis. > > I can hardly wait for the thing to bloom so that I can compare it with V. > capensis. > > Does anyone have any thoughts on the subject? > > Doug Westfall > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From fbiasella@watertownsavings.com Mon Sep 22 08:49:54 2003 Message-Id: <001101c38108$48f5dde0$55a7f10a@www.watertownsavings.com> From: "fbiasella" Subject: Ray English 7-24-39 to 9-15-03 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:51:47 -0400 Dear Marguerite, I'm new to the list but I want to express my condolences on your loss. May he be in eternal peace. Fred Biasella -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Marguerite English Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2003 1:38 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Ray English 7-24-39 to 9-15-03 Only a few of you have met Ray, but just for those who did: Ray died Monday morning of a massive heart attack. There were no previous symptoms or problems. He did tell me on the way to the ambulance that he had 'a few' pains the previous two weeks but didn't bother to tell me. So those tough guys out there who think you can ignore such things away, please pay attention for the sake of your loved ones! He was a wonderful man, and I was blessed to be with him for more than 33 years. Marguerite _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Mon Sep 22 09:19:34 2003 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476B97540@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Veltheimia deasii Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:19:50 -0500 Hi Doug: I've got two Veltheimia capensis var. deasii from Dr. Jim Ault, who worked on breeding them when he was at Longwood Gardens. Both of mine are syblings. One has just come into growth (14 leaves) the second is just beginning growth. Despite what appeared to be a promising seed crop from my attempts to cross pollinate my two plants last year, all but 3 of the developing seeds aborted. Of the 2 seeds, 1 apparently rotted, 2 germinated (1 died) so I am left with a single seedling. Neither plant will come into flower until next spring. Can you collect some pollen for cross pollination with my plants? I'll share the seed harvest. I shared a mature leaf from both plants with Harold Koopowitz when he visited the Chicago Botanic Garden last winter in an effort to propagate it by leaf cuttings or tissue culture. Haven't heard if he had any success. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Westfall [mailto:eagle85@flash.net] Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 9:19 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Veltheimia deasii I have a mature Veltheimia deasii sending up a flower spike - so what is unusual about that? NOTHING! The interesting part is that there are eleven (11) leaves which. are narrower and more undulated than V. capensis. That is several more than Veltheimia capensis. YET, the "experts" are maintaining that it is just a variation of V. capensis. I can hardly wait for the thing to bloom so that I can compare it with V. capensis. Does anyone have any thoughts on the subject? Doug Westfall _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From fbiasella@watertownsavings.com Mon Sep 22 09:34:19 2003 Message-Id: <001201c3810e$73861c40$55a7f10a@www.watertownsavings.com> From: "fbiasella" Subject: Shy Bloomers Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:35:55 -0400 Hello All, Many years ago I too tried (in vain!!) to grow Chlidanthus Fragrans, but to no avail. It produced an extraordinary number of off-sets but no blooms. I tried to grow them in pots and even dug them up and kept them dry through the winter but the only things I got the following spring were leaves (lots of them!!!). As for the Cyrtanthus Elatus...same thing. Lots of offsets and leaves. I have since tried some of the other Cyrtanthus members like Mackenii and I have had...so far...much better results. In August of 2002 I purchased some bulbs Cyrtanthus Mackenii from Odyssey Bulbs and in January to February of 2003 they actually sent up some spikes and flowered. Since then I have purchased some Cyrtanthus Brachysyphys and Suavolens from Rhoda McMaster and they appear to be doing fine. We'll see this winter if they flower. I'll keep you posted. Good Growing, Fred Biasella Boston (Cambridge) MA USDA Zone 6B P.S. The non-flowering plants have gone on to the great compost heap in the sky. From msittner@mcn.org Mon Sep 22 10:38:00 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030922073233.00c03d90@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Veltheimia deasii Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 07:37:00 -0700 Dear All, I have added two pictures from Doug of this plant that he grows to the wiki. He promises to send a better picture of it later and we will replace one of these. Earlier in the year he had sent me a picture of two pots with very different leaves and I have included it as well. Maybe Doug can tell us which is which and he and Boyce explain a little more about what they know about this plant. Since we now have more members from South Africa I am sure they would all be interested in the history. Most of us will have not heard of it. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Veltheimia_deasii.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Veltheimia_capensis_deasii.jpg Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Mon Sep 22 11:04:11 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030920204425.00d8c760@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Tigridia--Topic of the Week Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 07:54:35 -0700 Dear All, Since Judy's question has stimulated the discussion of Tigridia and people have already answered it with their experiences we shall expand the discussion to include an introduction. It was requested as a topic of the week and I had asked for an introduction before I left for South Africa and planned to have it be a topic on my return. Thank you Alberto for sending the following very interesting introduction for this genus: Tigridia is a member of the tribe Tigrideae of the Iridaceae. There are approximately 35 species in the genus (including four species previously placed in the genus Rigidella) most of which occur in Mexico and Guatemala but also a few little known species in Chile and Peru. Availability: a few species of Mexican Tigridias are available either as seed or bulbs. The most widely available is Tigridia pavonia, usually as bulbs in mixed color forms from the Dutch trade. Tigridia pavonia was already known and grown by the Aztecs perhaps a thousand years ago. Its native name was "cacomitl", almost the same common present day name in Mexico, "cacomite". A few species are only known from the type collection and had never been collected or found again. Of the South American species, Tigridia philippiana is available as seed. Morphology: the rootstock is a tunicated bulb, found from 3 to 15 cm deep in the wild. It is often mentioned that Tigridia has "corms" in many books. Bulbs are never found to offset in the wild except in T. orthantha (ex Rigidella orthantha). Leaves pleated in a broad fan. Inflorescence is a condensed raceme, flowers are erect in some species and in others nodding. Flowers start appearing the night previous to flowering, they open early in the morning in sunny days and later on cloudy days. In some species flowers open for a few hours and in others last until sunset; then they wilt. The flower has three outer tepals and three smaller ones in two series. Both series are normally very different. The most colourful flowers are those of Tigridia pavonia, in red, white, rose, pink, orange. This species has the largest flowers in the genus. In the other species of Tigridia the flowers are smaller and duller in color but the markings and different colorings of the flowers can be very showy. Growth cycle: Tigridias from Mexico and Guatemala are always dry winter dormant in the wild. Since they grow in a mountainous country some have precise requirements. Some species, mostly those alpine, grow in inundated places that dry out once the rainy season is over. Rains start in May and may extend to August and later. Regarding habit there are two types: one the "normal" type, in which the fan of leaves emerge first and is well developed when the flower scape appears from its centre. Seed is produced at the end of the growth cycle. In the second group a flower scape is produced at the beginning of the cycle and the fan of leaves appear afterwards. Seed is mature and ready in the middle of the growth season. Tigridia philippiana from hot northern Chile is a autumn/winter /spring grower with a dry summer dormancy. It grows in full sun in well drained soils under frost free conditions. T. lutea is said to behave likewise. I have grown the Peruvian T. albicans and this behaved as a winter dormant plant. Cultivation: if their temperature requirements are met, Tigridias are long lived plants. They must be very dry when dormant. Fresh seed sown in well drained soils germinate readily, a contractile root burying the plantlets to the suitable depth. Some species grow in the edge of oak-pine forests. Therefore half day sun would be advisable. Flowering size in the bulbs is obtained from the third year on. As bulbs grow fatter offsets appear in cultivation in all species. Below are a few examples of habitat details in Mexican Tigridias Alpine: seleriana, hallbergii, molseediana, alpestris, Semiarid: bicolor, meleagris, violacea, dugesii, vanhouttei, Semitropical to semialpine: pavonia Semitropical : mexicana ssp pasiflora, multiflora, huajuapanensis, ehrenbergii Wet meadows: chiapensis End From Mary Sue, Diana, can you describe the ones you grow and presumably sell? What others do people grow? I know Mike Mace used to grow these in San Jose, but don't know Mike if you are having time to respond. I hope Rob and Paul will write about their experiences in Australia. Do you protect yours from rain in winter? I am interested in the winter growing species thinking I might have more luck with one that grows when it is wet here in California than ones that need to be kept dry in winter. I had ordered some seed of that one from the ABA, but don't know if it was removed by the US Agriculture because none of those seeds ever arrived. Does anyone in the US grow it? I refer you to the Tigridia wiki page to see some of the interesting markings on some of the species and some of the nice forms of Tigridia pavonia: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tigridia I was surprised to see my Tigridia blooming a day after I said it wasn't blooming well in a pot!! It must have heard me. So I have added a very nice picture Bob took of it to the wiki when it bloomed earlier this summer. Mary Sue From eagle85@flash.net Mon Sep 22 12:29:14 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Veltheimia deasii Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:16:58 -0700 Boyce TankersleyDoug Westfall btankers@chicagobotanic.org1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Hi Doug: > Neither plant will come into flower until next spring. Can you collect some > pollen for cross pollination with my plants? I'll share the seed harvest. > Boyce, I will be happy to try that. With Cyrtanthus, I just clipped the "pollin" and placet it in plastic tube. Will that work with the Veltheimia? What is the "shelf life" of the Velt. pollin? I will need a mailing address. > I shared a mature leaf from both plants with Harold Koopowitz when he visited > the Chicago Botanic Garden last winter in an effort to propagate it by leaf > cuttings or tissue culture. Haven't heard if he had any success. Harold lives a few miles from my home and I have visited him. I know that UCI is working at the tissue culture area. Do you mind if I contact him to ask what progress has been made? Doug From lizwat@earthlink.net Mon Sep 22 17:13:04 2003 Message-Id: <3F6F4CE4.5C1D9003@earthlink.net> From: Elizabeth Waterman Subject: [Fwd: triton-wiki] Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:26:28 -0700 Hi, I have uloadeded the following 2 images to the WIKI. They are probably not  where they should be but I have given up trying to do more.-------- Original Message -------- Subject: triton-wiki Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:08:30 -0700 From: Elizabeth Waterman To: liz waterman http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Tritoniopsis_caffra_a.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Tritoniopsis_caffra_b.jpg From dells@voicenet.com Mon Sep 22 18:25:53 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Brunsvigia Seed has arrived. Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:28:03 -0400 Dear All, The Brunsvigia grandiflora seed from Cameron and Rhoda McMaster has arrived. It is very far along in germination. I will get it into the mail as soon as possible. If it is not viable when it gets to you, please be sure to let me know. I will send generous quantities so that the odds are in favor of successful seedling development. Thank you Cameron, Rhoda, Rachel, and Mary Sue !! Best regards, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Mon Sep 22 20:24:16 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030923102726.00a41100@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Tigridia--Topic of the Week Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:27:26 +1000 Howdy All, I find that Tigridias grow here for me in Canberra, Australia brilliantly. No problems, worries, fusses, care or problems The hybrid "Jockey Caps" with their floamboyent flowers stay permanently in the ground, multiplying quite happily and on ocassions seedlings have popped up. I have a pure white with no markings, white with red markings in the bowl, classic orange with dark markings in the bowl and a red with dark markings in the bowl.... all of which survive in the ground permanently without ANY care at all. I think I also have some theoretically yellow seedlings coming along as well. I ahve harvested seed from my white with red markings and they germinated fine, I have a feeling I may have donated some to the BX but I honestly can't remember for sure. Maybe I just gave them away to friends . In the last couple of years I have also started with some of the species and have found them VERY rewarding with their much more delicate flowers, but in striking colour combinations as well. I think I'd have to say that Tigridia vanhouttei is my favourite of the species so far as it has 1 inch more or less yellow flowers with strong purple veinings and markings. T. chiapensis is predominantly white, T. dugesii is a glorious golden yellow, T. multiflora is an interesting almost brick-red colouration with smaller flowers around 1.4cm wide or so, and T. durangense is a teeny tiny little thing that is extremely easy to miss (or it was in my garden) as the plants are only a couple of inches tall with mauve 1cm flowers that are strongly reflexed. I also have a couple of other species that have not yet flowered for me. The species I take a little more care of than I do the hybrids. I grow all of the species in approximately 7inch plastic pots in a mix that is half sand, half potting mix. This gives them excellent drainage which I have been told they require and they've done well for me so far, increasing quite well in some species. I have had some of the bulbs out of pots dry during late dormancy at times but generally I never remember to do it. I do make sure that in these pots I repot them every year though as I want to make SURE that I preserve the drainage for these. Having said that, a year ago I had a large outbreak of a soil-borne fungus that obviously came fom a bad batch of potting mix. I was mortified at one point to find mushrooms growing out of a number of my pots and one checking further I found that the soil was now a completely solid mass of almost water repellent white firbes. Even though in growth I actually repotted a couple of the Tigridia species but didn't completely remove all soil as I didn't want to shock them too badly. They did not seem to be at all bothered by the fungus as it turned out, nor for that matter the repotting, and at this dormancy all bulbs looked healthy when I repotted them. I still felt better having at least TRIED to deal with the fungus. I have just made sure to keep up the sand content since then and the fungus does not appear to have returned in the new mix, even though there was definitely some of the fungus in the soil around the roots when I repotted. Maybe the sand content has helped ward it off? So basically I have found them all good and hardy, and absolutely no more of a concern than any other bulb I have. I have certainly not had to fuss over them nearly as much as I expected to, and they have not been bothered by year-around watering of their pots (we've been in drought a few years now so pot watering is essential) and I have lost none of the species to rot as yet. I feed them with "Bulb Food" which I use for all my bulbs and they seem to have thrived. Despite the increased sand content I still use "Saturaid" to help to keep water penetration of the soil at a maximum. Nothing special really in comparison to any of my other bulbs. So I am not sure whether anything I've said here is going to be of much use to others as I haven't really found anything different about their culture. They tend to seed easily, and seed have germinated well for me (I have seedlings now from vanhouttei and chiapensis that are doing fine with all my other seedlings of jsut about every other genus in existence (OK, I'm exaggerating a little ). So I suppose to me I find that these guys are all-in-all a no fuss genus that rewards with flowers VERY well each year. The species are less flamboyent than the hybrids but are just as showy in their own way. Definitely all of the Tigridias are WELL worth the effort to grow. Hopefully Rob H can respond here as well. Many of mine originated from him and he likely grows a few more species than I do. His conditions are also quite different to mine climate-wise (particularly rainfall etc) so he may have some experiences that may be more useful to you all? Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From batlette@cox.net Tue Sep 23 00:32:48 2003 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: bluebells Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:27:20 -0700 My goodness, Carolyn, have we ever turned up our noses at any bulbs? I'd love to try some here. I'm sure many of us would love to have some. Cathy Craig President PBS Maritime zone 9b From msittner@mcn.org Tue Sep 23 01:23:57 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030922221523.00d23f00@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Tritoniopsis Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:22:50 -0700 Dear Liz, I made a Tritoniopsis wiki page for you and put your pictures on it. Are they blooming now? It looks like they are growing in a pot. Can you tell us anything about them? I thought this species was a spring summer bloomer but I have this faint recollection that Rhoda said this genus was opportunistic. I lost some I grew from seed in the second or third year. I think I got nervous about what to do with it because of something I read in the IBSA chat about the dangers of transplanting that I didn't quite understand. I recently plunked another species in the ground I was growing in a pot as it hadn't quite gone dormant and it seemed like I might have better luck in the ground since Tom Glavich said he grew his that way. Mary Sue From roberth6@mac.com Tue Sep 23 08:34:49 2003 Message-Id: <05ACEB8A-EDC2-11D7-AD7A-0003938EDBFA@mac.com> From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Tigridia--Topic of the Week Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:32:40 +1000 Hi all, Thanks to Alberto for the really (as usual) informative introduction to Tigridia. I am interested to hear that Rigidella has now been included with Tigridia. I grow Tigridia pavonia and find it does very well in the ground here staying quite wet during its winter dormancy . In fact those in the ground do better than those in pots which I presume are drying out too much during summer. Tigridia (Rigidella) orthantha also tolerates moisture through winter dormancy. I grow the other species mentioned by Paul - chiapensis, dugesii, durangense, multiflora and vanhoutei as well as mexicana passiflora. I treat them all the same way- in pots which I keep out of the rain through winter dormancy. The first 5 species flower well and increase by bulb division and seed freely. I have never flowered mexicana passiflora which grows at 1000m in Mexico and clearly finds my climate a little cool. The bulbs are continuing to enlarge so I live in hope . I have given a couple of bulbs to friends in different climates this winter so hope they can produce flowers. I have raised T philippiana from ABA seed by courtesy of Julian Slade but have to admit they are not really happy- I dont have a lot of returns in their second season. Last summer I put some pollen of Rigidella orthantha onto Tigridia pavonia and managed to harvest 3 seeds. I had read of this hybrid in Brian Mathew's "Larger Bulbs" and thought it was worth a try. I will let you know if I get any germination. Seed for most of my species came from Southwest Native Seeds in Tucson which I am sure will be far easier for most of you to access than it is for me. I also managed to grow and flower the tiny irid Nemastylis tenuis nana from their seed but unfortunately wasnt able to maintain it in cultivation for very long. I would love to hear of any seed sources for the other species mentioned on Alberto's list. Cheers, Rob in Tasmania Zone 9 equivalent. (-2C minimum) Average rainfall 26.5 inches fairly evenly distributed throughout the seasons. Coolish summers with average maximum summer temperatures in low 20C's. From roberth6@mac.com Tue Sep 23 08:40:53 2003 Message-Id: From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Tigridia--Topic of the Week Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:38:58 +1000 Hi again, Alberto wrote: > Bulbs are never found to offset in the wild except in T. orthantha > (ex Rigidella orthantha). By contrast in cultivation I have found the exact opposite occurs - all increase by division except T orthantha. Cheers, Rob From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Tue Sep 23 09:13:56 2003 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476D33A8E@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Tigridia--Topic of the Week Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:14:12 -0500 Paul: Absolutely green with envy. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Tue Sep 23 09:50:40 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030923235409.00a0d8e0@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Tigridia--Topic of the Week Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:54:09 +1000 At 10:38 23/09/03 +1000, you wrote: >Hi again, > >Alberto wrote: >> Bulbs are never found to offset in the wild except in T. orthantha >> (ex Rigidella orthantha). > >By contrast in cultivation I have found the exact opposite occurs - >all increase by division except T orthantha. > Rob, Well if you ever come and visit here don't tell MINE that. Mine increased from 1 to about 4 the first year, and all returned last season but didn't flower (it had flowered the previous year so I assumed it wanted a rest ). As to other species increasing.... all have done so except T. vanhouttei I think. Definitely the hybrids multiply quite well and I have definitely had offsets on T. dugesii and T. durangense and I think that multiflora and chiapensis are looking ready to split after this growing season (they have already divided in 2, but still have a fully linked basal plate so I can't really say they have fully divided as yet. T. vanhouttei is still the original bulb I bought. Obviously they like multiplying for us over here in Aus eh Rob? I can't say I mind at all . I too would like to hear about seed sources for the other species that Alberto mentioned. Great intro Alberto!! Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Tue Sep 23 10:08:50 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030924001215.00a50370@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Tigridia--Topic of the Week Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:12:15 +1000 Howdy All, One thing that may be worth adding as well is that letting seed set on the Tigridias is generally detrimental to flower production. As with Cypellas and the rest of the alliance flowers can keep being produced for quite some period of time in each flowering point of the stem, but if seed is allowed to be produced then there tend to be a lot less flowers after that as the reserves are used for seed production rather the production of more flowers. This has been an observation of mine, but I THINK I have been told this by others as well..... I know I was definitely told that for some of the Cypellas and I am assuming that it applies to the Tigridias as well, at least it does for mine anyway . To get around this I tend to wait until late in the flowering season before I let seed set or deliberately pollinate flowers. I guess I'm trying to have my proverbial cake and eat it as well. I would imagine that there may be higer seed production within a pod earlier in the season when the plant is healthier and less close to dormancy, but I have still had at least a few seeds within each pod on the T. vanhouttei each year and any of the Cypellas I have set seed on. I thought this was worth mentioning to people in case they were thinking of trying to set any seed. This also definitely applies to the Tigridia pavonia hybrids as at one point I had seed set on my white one with the red bowl and within a week flower production had stopped completely. Some of the pods that this alliance produces can be HUGE and contain a hundred seed or more (my white had at least that, in a pod around 3 inches long, and I had the same happen with Cypella coelestris a couple of years back too). If people are interested I will try to set some seed on various of the Tigridias this year so I can donate to the BX. That is assuming that people are interested if I am successful? Would people only be interested in the species, or in the hybrids as well? Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From msittner@mcn.org Tue Sep 23 10:43:53 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030923073503.0247db20@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Tigridia--Topic of the Week Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:42:46 -0700 Dear Paul & Rob, Thanks for your interesting remarks about how you grow these plants. Glad you reminded us Paul about the seed production. I have found if I deadhead Calydorea that it will bloom for months every day or two (July-Oct last year). Gelasine and Hesperoxiphion are two others that bloom a long time if you nip off the flower heads after they have shriveled. Unfortunately while I was in South Africa I was gone to do that and came back to very fat pods and no more blooms. But I see blooming stalks on two of the Hesperoxiphions who hadn't bloomed yet so hope to keep those going for awhile. To see most of these however you need to be working at home, retired, or come home for lunch as most of them open after many would have gone to work and are gone before the day is over. By all means Paul if you finally get tired of seeing all those wonderful flowers do let a few set seed for the rest of us. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Tue Sep 23 13:25:25 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030923093014.00aaef00@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Sternbergia Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:37:13 -0700 Hi all, I am slowly trying to go through the mail and the wiki and fix the problems. If any of you struggled while I was gone please contact me privately so I won't have to be a detective and try to figure out whose images still need to get on pages. Here is Angelo's wiki page on Sternbergia with his images: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Sternbergia He did just fine creating it and getting his images on it. So it was there, but it wasn't linked to any of the pages. Mary Sue >I have also added a new page with three photos, but for some reasons (this >board is still too complicated for me, sorry !) it seems to dont' work :-( > >Angelo Porcelli From msittner@mcn.org Tue Sep 23 13:25:26 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030923101107.00df1580@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Belated Eucomis posting Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:24:22 -0700 Dear All, One more message and that's all I have time for today. I have added Paul's pictures to the Eucomis wiki page. I agree with Mark that he could have been timed out or forgot to save his work. I did that more than once in the beginning especially having previewed everything and it all looks fine and then just gone to the next thing without saving my work and then been very unhappy when I have lost my work. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Eucomis I also added a Eucomis bicolor picture to this page that I found had been uploaded about the same time (August 24). Will someone claim it so we can credit you with the picture? Paul, do you have species names for any of your plants? Or shall we just leave them under sp.? The purple color of the leaves is very nice and the flowers are great too. I also like your dwarf plant. I wanted to comment on your remark that you had been too late to participate in the Eucomis discussion. It is never to late to add a few words I don't think. We recognize that people are busy or gone and may not be able to comment on a topic dear to their hearts when it is discussed. If you have information to share it is always fine to send it later. Cameron McMaster told me he really wanted to participate in the Eucomis discussion but didn't have time. I hope that once he has once again moved and is settled that he will send his comments to the group then. He and Rhoda told me the Eucomis I purchased from the Huntington as Eucomis autumnalis pink couldn't be that species. I think it is probably Eucomis comosa. Regardless it is a wonderful plant. Cameron explained how I can divide it so hopefully sometime this winter I'll have some plants dried up and separated to send to the BX. Mary Sue >I have uploaded pictures of a dwarf white that I have (not at this stage >confirmed as to ID) and pictures of 2 Eucomis varieties that start their >season with deep purple leaves (one has pink, the other white flowers). > >Paul Tyerman From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Tue Sep 23 13:50:05 2003 Message-Id: <000401c381fa$de054400$7e89eb50@davidfen> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Belated Eucomis posting Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:48:15 +0100 Hi Mary Sue, Just had a look at the wiki. The second picture on the wiki under Eucomis bicolor is actually Eucomis autumnalis. Paul's dwarf white also looks like E. autumnalis, it's too big to be considered as the named hybrid 'E. autumnalis 'White Dwarf'. E. autumnalis pink - is indeed an E. comosa form. Regarding Paul's purple leaf form, I have a few hybrids of this type and I think they are most likely hybrids between both E. comosa and E. pole-evansii. Paul actually has quite a nice one, very distinct. Best Wishes, Dave David Fenwick NCCPG National Plant Heritage Collections of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens Estover Plymouth Devon England PL6 8TW Websites www.theafricangarden.com www.crocosmiaheritage.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Sue Ittner" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Belated Eucomis posting > Dear All, > > One more message and that's all I have time for today. I have added Paul's > pictures to the Eucomis wiki page. I agree with Mark that he could have > been timed out or forgot to save his work. I did that more than once in the > beginning especially having previewed everything and it all looks fine and > then just gone to the next thing without saving my work and then been very > unhappy when I have lost my work. > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Eucomis > > I also added a Eucomis bicolor picture to this page that I found had been > uploaded about the same time (August 24). Will someone claim it so we can > credit you with the picture? > > Paul, do you have species names for any of your plants? Or shall we just > leave them under sp.? The purple color of the leaves is very nice and the > flowers are great too. I also like your dwarf plant. > > I wanted to comment on your remark that you had been too late to > participate in the Eucomis discussion. It is never to late to add a few > words I don't think. We recognize that people are busy or gone and may not > be able to comment on a topic dear to their hearts when it is discussed. If > you have information to share it is always fine to send it later. Cameron > McMaster told me he really wanted to participate in the Eucomis discussion > but didn't have time. I hope that once he has once again moved and is > settled that he will send his comments to the group then. He and Rhoda told > me the Eucomis I purchased from the Huntington as Eucomis autumnalis pink > couldn't be that species. I think it is probably Eucomis comosa. Regardless > it is a wonderful plant. Cameron explained how I can divide it so hopefully > sometime this winter I'll have some plants dried up and separated to send > to the BX. > > Mary Sue > > >I have uploaded pictures of a dwarf white that I have (not at this stage > >confirmed as to ID) and pictures of 2 Eucomis varieties that start their > >season with deep purple leaves (one has pink, the other white flowers). > > > >Paul Tyerman > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.518 / Virus Database: 316 - Release Date: 11/09/03 From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Tue Sep 23 17:17:33 2003 Message-Id: <1A1uXA-0SDA6C0@fwd10.sul.t-online.com> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: Dahlia update Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:17:20 +0200 Dear All, After having written the TOW on Dahlia earlier this summer, I promised an update later in the year. I did some investigation and tried to find out more about species Dahlia. Having spoken to several people about the tree dahlias the situation becomes more confusing the more I know about it: On one hand I was told that the difference between D. imperialis and D. excelsa is that D.imperialis produces perennial woody tree-like trunks and branches several meters above soil level whereas D. excelsa produces annual tree-like shoots from the base that do not branch. In another garden I saw plants which were labelled exactly the other way round...... both plants cannot be distinguished by their foliage and it was too early to have seen flowers. However, I was told that cultivation in large pots has produced flowers as early as August in a plant that was considered D. imperialis. There is also the opinion that both D. imperialis and D. excelsa are varieties of one single species. As the plants that are cultivated in England and other northern contries are usually killed by frost before they flower being used as architectural foliage plants we will perhaps not know which ones they in fact are..... unless they flower. I saw a large bed of D. dissecta, the first flowers open and a lot of buds, light pink flowers over very finely cut leaave, quite attractive. Also D. merkii and D. sherfii, D. laciniata, D. coccinea in forms, D macdougallii, the epiphytic Dahlia which flowers in November. I is more a large climber than an epiphyte and looks like an elder..... (Sambucus) The trouble with species Dahlias is their tendency to get virus infections that kill them very quickly and the fact that they hybridize in an uncontrolled way so that the species itself is easily lost. Well... hope this was of interest for you, bye for today, Uli From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Tue Sep 23 19:08:16 2003 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Tigridia--Topic of the Week Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:08:08 -0700 At 23:54 +1000 9/23/03, Paul Tyerman wrote: >Obviously they like multiplying for us over here in Aus eh Rob? I can't >say I mind at all . Don't you and Rob live in parts of Australia that are cooler than most of the rest of the country? The reason I ask is that I have two accessions of the species version of Tigridia pavonia that I got from Yucca Do. (I think Tony Avent of Plant Delights currently offers one of them.) I put a picture of one of them up on the wiki . When I bought them, the catalog description said that they were collected at a much lower and hotter location than the ones that formed the basis of the Dutch trade cultivars. And that therefore they could tolerate much warmer summers than the Dutch varieties. They said that their accessions would easily grow and thrive in the Central Texas climate they are located in as opposed to the Dutch bulbs that never do well there. Could this be a reason some of us have had so much trouble with the standard varieties? I've noticed that most (but not all) of those who said they easily grow them come from climates with cooler summers (or at least cooler nights) than the rest of us. >I too would like to hear about seed sources for >the other species that Alberto mentioned. Great intro Alberto!! If only I had joined some of these organizations earlier, I would have known about Southwest Native Seeds in Tucson much sooner. They haven't listed any Tigridias (or color forms of Bessera) for the past 3 years, even though they have listed some interesting things. I guess they only head down into Mexico to collect every so many years and not every year like they do other areas. (It seems to me that bulbs from Latin America are the least easily obtainable of all the regions in the world. Thad Howard's book on Bulbs for Warm Climates is too difficult to read sometimes because of the unfulfillable bulblust it induces in me.) At 0:12 +1000 9/24/03, Paul Tyerman wrote: >If people are interested I will try to set some seed on various of the >Tigridias this year so I can donate to the BX. That is assuming that >people are interested if I am successful? Would people only be interested >in the species, or in the hybrids as well? Yes, yes, yes! Both species and hybrids. (Some of us are not species purists...) Especially any seed of the pure colored (unmarked) T. pavonias all you Australasians seem to have, but I've never seen offered here in the States. -- --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From lizwat@earthlink.net Tue Sep 23 19:40:24 2003 Message-Id: <3F70DA86.10C622EF@earthlink.net> From: Elizabeth Waterman Subject: Tritoniopsis Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:43:02 -0700 Hi Mary Sue, Again, many thanks for helping me out on my nemesis, the WIKI.  I am due to get a new computer soon.  Maybe then, I'll learn to use it. Regarding the Tritoniopsis, I bought it at UC Berkeley Botanical garden last year.  It originally came from Rosendale's Nursery. It didn't set seed, but seems to have increased in size, i.e. more flowering stalks.  I have no idea what's happening below ground as I haven't dug it up.  It's still in the same 1 gal black plastic pot.  No signs of seed setting in the 2 stalks that are finished.  It started blooming a month or so ago and should finish up in a couple of weeks. More info and another pic: http://www.calhortsociety.org/Plant_Forums/Jul2000/source/1.html Anapalina caffra (new name-Tritoniopsis caffra).         Iridaceae.         We may thank Mr. Goldblatt for creating a new monotypic-genus for this small         RSA irid. It was shown growing in a small container with a 10" long bloom spike         and a few brilliant red 0.75" tubular flowers. The irids of RSA are a joy for         enterprising taxonomists, so every decade or so we can expect nomenclatural         revision.         Martin Grantham, Emeryville Liz   From c-mueller@tamu.edu Tue Sep 23 19:47:21 2003 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: Tigridia--Topic of the Week Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:44:49 -0500 Rob mentions 'Southwest Native Seeds' in Tucson as a source for Tigridas and other bulbs he is growing. It doesn't appear to have a web address - who could tell us its mailing address or telephone number? 'Seeds of Change' in Tucson is mostly vegetables, etc. and does not have a Tigrida offering, so 'Southwest Native Seeds' must be another company? Cynthia Mueller College Station, Tx Zone 8b-9 >>> roberth6@mac.com 09/23/03 07:32AM >>> "....Hi all - ...Seed for most of my species came from Southwest Native Seeds inTucson which I am sure will be far easier for most of you to access than it is for me. I also managed to grow and flower the tiny irid Nemastylis tenuis nana from their seed but unfortunately wasnt able to maintain it in cultivation for very long.... Cheers, Rob in Tasmania" From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Tue Sep 23 19:50:17 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030924095315.00af5e40@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Tigridia--Topic of the Week Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:53:15 +1000 > >Don't you and Rob live in parts of Australia that are cooler than >most of the rest of the country? The reason I ask is that I have two >accessions of the species version of Tigridia pavonia that I got from >Yucca Do. (I think Tony Avent of Plant Delights currently offers one Lee, I have colder winter temperatures than a lot of Australia (but by no means am I the coldest . However, our summer temps sit in the mid 30'C for a lot of January, February and sometimes into March. We ocassionally top 40'C. To do a quick conversion for you that means we get to around 100'F REGULARLY during our summer, but not really more than 105'F. Whether you regard that as cool or warm I do not know and you'll have to let me know. It is not as hot as some of you get, but it ain't exactly freezing either I'll see what I can do re seed of the Tigridias. I think I have to move my pure white one as it doesn't seem to want to flower (I received it from a friend a couple of years back but it hasn't flowered since.... I think I have put it in too much shelter and it doesn't get as warm as it would like in summer. Personally I think the hybrids DEFINITELY prefer a hot summer rather than cooler weather. Ours certainly come into flower only when the weather heats up. Does that help any with working out our temps etc and awhy we do so well here? If I get the time I'll try contacting a friend in another area of Aus who gets more extreme than me here..... temps down to -15'C during winter (as opposed to our usual -8'C or so) and up above the 40'C mark regularly as far as I can remember. Will check if they do well for him or not. That might help work out what it is in Aus that they like? Maybe they just happen to like our accents....although WE don't have accents, every one else has them!! Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From jshields104@insightbb.com Tue Sep 23 20:16:04 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030923191456.02684d28@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Tigridia--Topic of the Week Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:16:03 -0500 The last address I have for them is: Southwest Native Seeds Inc. P.O. Box 50503 Tucson AZ 85703 USA This and many many other sources of bulbs and seeds can be found at: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/GLOVBulbs/SOURCES.html Jim Shields At 06:44 PM 9/23/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Rob mentions 'Southwest Native Seeds' in Tucson as a source for Tigridas >and other bulbs he is growing. It doesn't appear to have a web address - >who could tell us its mailing address or telephone number? 'Seeds of >Change' in Tucson is mostly vegetables, etc. and does not have a >Tigrida offering, so 'Southwest Native Seeds' must be another company? > >Cynthia Mueller >College Station, Tx >Zone 8b-9 > > >>> roberth6@mac.com 09/23/03 07:32AM >>> >"....Hi all - ...Seed for most of my species came from Southwest >Native Seeds inTucson which I am sure will be far easier for most >of you to >access than it is for me. I also managed to grow and flower the >tiny irid Nemastylis tenuis nana from their seed but unfortunately > wasnt able to maintain it in cultivation for very long.... > >Cheers, > >Rob in Tasmania" > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Tue Sep 23 20:14:20 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030924101637.00a40b30@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Belated Eucomis posting Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:16:37 +1000 > >Paul, do you have species names for any of your plants? Or shall we just >leave them under sp.? The purple color of the leaves is very nice and the >flowers are great too. I also like your dwarf plant. > Mary Sue, It may be best to just put them in as hybrids. I assume they are a cross between species that produce the coloured leaves result etc. I don't know so I didn't try to put a species name. Thanks for putting them up on the wiki again for me. I jut had not had a chance to tackle it all again. Was frustrating to have lost it and I still don't know what happened. I KNOW I saved it as I got that little "Thank you for...." page with the picture, which only comes up after saving, not just previewing, doesn't it? Oh yeah.... and Dave. Glad you liked the pics. Which one of the 2 dark leaved ones did you think was the distinct one? There was the one with white flowers and the one with pinky flowers. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Sep 23 21:13:43 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030923181057.00bb14a8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Southwest Native Seeds (was Tigridia) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:13:34 -0700 Cynthia asked, >Rob mentions 'Southwest Native Seeds' in Tucson as a source for Tigridas >and other bulbs he is growing. It doesn't appear to have a web address - >who could tell us its mailing address or telephone number? The mailing address is: P.O. Box 50503 Tucson, AZ 85703 I'm not sure they are still in business; I haven't received a renewal of their ad for the Rock Garden Quarterly, nor a recent list. They have no telephone or computer -- literally. They live in a cabin out in the desert and visit the post office sporadically, telephoning when necessary from a store somewhere near their home. The list is brief in the extreme, but I have grown many good bulbs from their seed in past years. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From gatogordo@webtv.net Tue Sep 23 22:53:06 2003 Message-Id: <15179-3F710710-6358@storefull-2312.public.lawson.webtv.net> From: gatogordo@webtv.net (Chato Massey) Subject: Donation/ rhodofiala bifida seed Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:53:04 -0500 (CDT) Last Spring I mentioned that I had a patch of seedy rhodofiala bifida--apparently an anomaly in Texas-grown rhodofiala. A number of members were interested in acquiring some of these seeds, so I would like to make a donation to the BX. I have some questions though as I am a novice at collecting and packaging seed. First, I understand that these seed are ephemeral, so I need to collect them as soon as they mature--will that be when the seed capsule first ruptures?--or is there some other indicator of maturity? Second, can I collect them in paper envelopes, and should I separate them into separate, individual portions, or send them in bulk? I have about 20 to 30 plants with seed pods, and spotted the first ruptured pods today, but the majority are at least a week from reaching that point. Third, how should I package them for mailing? Because the seed are ephemeral, with viability for about two weeks, I want to collect and mail them as speedily as possible. Your advice will be very helpful and much appreciated. Thank you very much Theresa Massey Austin TX From theafricangarden@blueyonder.co.uk Wed Sep 24 05:39:46 2003 Message-Id: <000601c3827f$85999c00$7e89eb50@davidfen> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Belated Eucomis posting Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:37:50 +0100 >>>>>Oh yeah.... and Dave. Glad you liked the pics. Which one of the 2 dark leaved ones did you think was the distinct one? There was the one with white flowers and the one with pinky flowers. Hi Paul, Both are good, but I particularly liked the pinky flowered one, and because the colour was strong but mainly because it has a stout stem. Good Eucomis hybrids need a stout stem to support the head. The problem with a lot of Eucomis is that they tend to fall over very easily, and need staking. Thus a good sturdy scape, with a good head of flower, and pink ones at that is an extremely useful hybrid. Pinks are more unusual anyway, and aren't that common. Like I said the white is also good and if I remember rightly, (I can't check at thre moment as I'm having problems with viewing the wikki), the other hybrid has dark streaks on the scape where the flowers meet it. I think it was difficult to see on the photo, but was noticable. I've only seen this on one other hybrid, and this is a really nice feature. See http://www.theafricangarden.com/EucomisNEGroup.jpg for a clearer picture of what I mean. Best Wishes, Dave --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.518 / Virus Database: 316 - Release Date: 11/09/03 From totototo@mail.pacificcoast.net Sun Sep 21 14:50:48 2003 Message-Id: <200309211850.h8LIojZE019706@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Shy bloomers Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 12:06:42 -700 On 20 Sep 03 at 20:15, Angelo Porcelli wrote: > Hymenocallis x festalis, from 1994 in the ground, has turned in a > massive clump of maybe 15 bulbs, sends stalks every summer but it > aborts the flowers regularly. This summer I have watered them > continuosly, thinking it was my summer heat and drought to cause > this, but no result again. Probably I have to move the bulbs in a > partial shade, as now are in full baking sun. I wonder if there's some nutritional deficiency involved? Since I started a program of fall fertilization of my garden a couple of years ago, I've noticed all sorts of things flowering that never did much in the past. A stray lycoris, not the usual squamigera, popped up this fall to my astonishment, and the colchicums include some I don't remember seeing flowers on for years. You might, as an experiment, try scattering a general purpose fertilizer on your Hymenocallis now. I use 13-16-10 at a rate around an ounce per square yard, roughly 35 g per square meter -- not much. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada "To co-work is human, to cow-ork, bovine." From tony@plantdel.com Wed Sep 24 06:14:36 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20030924061436.029edd48@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: Southwest Native Seeds (NARGS) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:14:36 -0400 Jane: Sally Walker is the amazing lady who runs Southwest Native Seed. Her daughter who lives in Raleigh was here last week and said everything was fine with her mom. She also said that Sally is planning to attend the NARGS National meeting next May 5-8 to be held here in Raleigh. For those that have ordered by mail, this will be a great chance to meet her and many other wonderful gardeners. The talks will have a strong emphasis on bulbs. Since I've mentioned the meeting, our list of speakers at the meeting include: Jim Archibald, Archibald Seed (Wales) - "Plant Hunting in Turkey and Gone to Seed" Tony Avent, Plant Delights Nursery (NC) - "Humidity and Humility - Rock Gardening in the South" Roy Dicks, Writer/Reviewer (NC) - "The Garden Wit and Wisdom of Beverly Nichols" Pamela Harper, Garden Writer (VA) - "Gone But Not Forgotten" Todd Lasseigne, JC Raulston Arboretum (NC) - "Woody Plants for the Rock Garden" Brian Matthew, Garden Writer (UK) - "A-Z of Bulbs and Associated Matters" Carl Schoenfeld, Yucca Do Nursery (TX) - "New Hardy Plant Introductions from South of the Border" Bobby Ward, Garden Writer (NC) - "Contemporary Plant Hunters and Their Plant Introductions" Emily Wilson, Garden Writer (NC) - "Elizabeth Lawrence - A Life" Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From dells@voicenet.com Wed Sep 24 07:04:01 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Brunsvigia Seed on its way Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:06:42 -0400 Dear All, The seed of Brinsvigia grandiflora which many of you requested is on its way to you. That offering is all gone now. Thanks to the McMasters for donating it. Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From dells@voicenet.com Wed Sep 24 07:04:02 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 42 CLOSED Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:06:43 -0400 Packages should go out on or after the weekend. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From biblio@nc.rr.com Wed Sep 24 07:36:13 2003 Message-Id: From: Bobby Ward Subject: Southwest Native Seeds (NARGS) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:36:11 -0400 Tony, Thanks for the plug on NARGS--and Sally. Bobby >Jane: > > Sally Walker is the amazing lady who runs Southwest Native Seed. Her >daughter who lives in Raleigh was here last week and said everything was >fine with her mom. She also said that Sally is planning to attend the >NARGS National meeting next May 5-8 to be held here in Raleigh. For those >that have ordered by mail, this will be a great chance to meet her and many >other wonderful gardeners. The talks will have a strong emphasis on bulbs. >Since I've mentioned the meeting, our list of speakers at the meeting include: > >Jim Archibald, Archibald Seed (Wales) - "Plant Hunting in Turkey and Gone >to Seed" >Tony Avent, Plant Delights Nursery (NC) - "Humidity and Humility - Rock >Gardening in the South" >Roy Dicks, Writer/Reviewer (NC) - "The Garden Wit and Wisdom of Beverly >Nichols" >Pamela Harper, Garden Writer (VA) - "Gone But Not Forgotten" >Todd Lasseigne, JC Raulston Arboretum (NC) - "Woody Plants for the Rock >Garden" >Brian Matthew, Garden Writer (UK) - "A-Z of Bulbs and Associated Matters" >Carl Schoenfeld, Yucca Do Nursery (TX) - "New Hardy Plant Introductions >from South of the Border" >Bobby Ward, Garden Writer (NC) - "Contemporary Plant Hunters and Their >Plant Introductions" >Emily Wilson, Garden Writer (NC) - "Elizabeth Lawrence - A Life" > > >Tony Avent >Plant Delights Nursery @ >Juniper Level Botanic Garden >9241 Sauls Road >Raleigh, NC 27603 USA >Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F >Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F >USDA Hardiness Zone 7b >email tony@plantdelights.com >website http://www.plantdel.com >phone 919 772-4794 >fax 919 772-4752 >"I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least >three times" - Avent >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ____________ Bobby J. Ward 930 Wimbleton Drive Raleigh, North Carolina 27609-4356 USA Telephone: 919-781-3291 Fax number: 919-783-0654 email biblio@nc.rr.com USDA horticultural Zone 7 From eagle85@flash.net Wed Sep 24 11:22:31 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: New Pic Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:12:03 -0700 To all PBS members interested - I have just added a picture of Stenomesson incarnatum to the WIKI. It is interesting that the first flower is nearly twice the size of the others. It also has twice the number of petals as the others - curious. Doug Westfall http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Stenomesson%20incarnatum.jpg From SheriAnnRicherson@exoticgardening.com Wed Sep 24 11:31:04 2003 Message-Id: <001001c382b0$8b6171e0$0100a8c0@sheri> From: "SheriAnnRicherson" Subject: New Picture of an unknown Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:28:09 -0500 Hello. My plant tag washed off and I am not sure exactly what this bulb is. I uploaded it to the wiki at http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/unknownbulb.JPG Any help in identifying this bulb would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Sheri Do you like gardening? Then visit http://www.exoticgardening.com Do you need a freelance writer, editor, photographer or speaker? Contact Sheri Ann Richerson (765) 674-6167 SheriAnnRicherson@exoticgardening.com http://sheriannricherson.exoticgardening.com From DaveKarn@aol.com Wed Sep 24 11:36:34 2003 Message-Id: <36.4826b5ec.2ca313f0@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: REPLY: Growing bulbs from seed - ATOW Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:36:16 EDT In a message dated 23-Sep-03 10:36:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, janemcgary@EARTHLINK.NET writes: Jane, Jim ~ > I have not noticed named cultivars self-sowing, but since they're used in > breeding, at least some of them have to be fertile. The modern daffodil is a tetraploid. The first three divisions are quite fertile with each other and are the source of much of the breeding taking place today. Open pollinated seed occurs commonly in these hybrids. Oddly, as many have observed, there never seem to be seedlings arising from the seed scattered from those capsules. I suspect the reason for this is consumption of the seed by birds, as the seed (when fresh) is big, black and shiny and rests on the surface of the soil -- easy pickings for sharp eyed seed eaters. In my current lease here in OR, there are small groups of wild turkeys that move through and I suspect that it is the rare seed that escapes these creatures! Daffodil hybrids involving one of the species and a 4n parent, however, tend to be triploid and, thus, infertile, or only marginally so. Many of the commoner species (and species diploid hybrids) will also set quantities of OP seed (but not the scarcer and far more desirable ones!!). The interesting thing about many of these is that the very small capsules are chock-a-block full of seed -- I've counted over a hundred seed from one small bulbocodium capsule! There are so many seed that they tend to be angular so they can all fit in, rather than the spherical form otherwise normal. > Narcissus triandrus 'Albus' and N. pseudonarcissus "obvallaris" self-sow > here regularly in the garden, and I collect a great deal of viable seed from > the species Narcissus I grow in the bulb frames. > I've found N. triandrus triandrus (albus) to readily set seed when manually pollinated. With respect to OP seed, however, Jane has far better luck in her controlled environment than I do with these things grown outdoors where they have to take what 'ol Ma Nature throws their way. Honestly, I've never really noticed obvallaris, although every year I see great quantities of OP seed capsules on N. minor and the various hybrids involving this one, e.g., 'Little Gem.' They have to be unfailingly removed to keep the stocks free of unwanted seedlings. I used to collect and sow this seed but never got anything to justify the time involved. Some of the jonquil and bulbocodium hybrids might even be termed "weeds" here in Oregon (I suspect the daffodil community will strike me dead for such blasphemy) as they will always OP with promiscuous abandon. Same result for the seed, however. Best, Dave Karnstedt Cascade Daffodils Silverton, Oregon, USA Maritime, Mediterranean climate, USDA Z7-8 email: davekarn@AOL.com From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Sep 24 12:43:55 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030924094125.00bc5af8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Southwest Native Seeds (NARGS) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:43:46 -0700 Dear Tony, Thanks for sending the list of speakers. If you're sending it out elsewhere, you need to correct the spelling of Brian Mathew's name (one t, not two). I look forward to attending the meeting -- even though I'll see a whole lot of interesting plants that I can't grow here, where the climate is the diametrical opposite of yours! (And if I can grow them, they turn into weeds....) Best regards, Jane McGary From msittner@mcn.org Wed Sep 24 16:29:32 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030924131039.00c7a480@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Bulbs you thought you had lost Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:27:12 -0700 Dear All, I am slowly getting through the discussions I missed while I was gone and very much enjoyed reading the topic of the week about some of the bulbs people were surprised to see again. In the spirit of my previous message about responding weeks after the discussion is over I'd like to offer two stories of bulbs I thought were long gone. The first concerns a Moraea that was sold to be by the wrong name. I planted it in a pot and although it came up each year for three or four years, all it did was split into smaller corms. Finally I gave up and just planted a bunch of them in the ground. If I marked them, the tag got lost and I long forgot about them. One year I saw these very tall spikes appearing in several spots in my garden and couldn't imagine what in the world they could be. When they bloomed, I was even more puzzled about what they were. Finally I figured out they were Moraea bellendenii. I am sure they were descendants of those misnamed bulbs. This Moraea usually blooms for me now, but when it doesn't I just figure it is taking a year off. A Moraea related to it, Moraea tricuspidata, I thought I had lost since I hadn't seen it for several years, but it bloomed last year when I had redone my beds and planted back unknown Moraea corms. In 1990 when we had in California what we called "The Arctic Freeze", a cold spell in December where it remained below freezing for us for three days in a row, most of my South African bulbs turned to mush. Some of them I had planted in a raised bed sent up new leaves afterwards but didn't bloom. I was sure most of them would never return. The following year to my surprise some of them did return and the year after that a few more appeared. There were Lachenalias in this category appearing two or three years later and one corm of Geissorhiza splendidissima resurfaced two years later and went on to bloom for the next three or four years before disappearing once again, this time for good. Mary Sue From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Wed Sep 24 18:17:21 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030925082057.00a40b30@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: New Picture of an unknown Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:20:57 +1000 At 10:28 24/09/03 -0500, you wrote: > >Hello. My plant tag washed off and I am not sure exactly what this bulb >is. I uploaded it to the wiki at >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/unknownbulb.JPG > Shei, I can't help with the ID, but surely someone will be able to. The flower looks pretty distinctive to say the least, so someone on the list should have an idea. Good luck with IDing it. Not quite like anything else I have seen, well at least nothing I have flowered anyway . Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From eagle85@flash.net Thu Sep 25 01:07:44 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: New picture on the WIKI Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:40:27 -0700 For all of you Haemanthaphiles, I have placed a picture of Haemanthus crispus which is blooming for me - my first in 12 years of "ownership." Doug Westfall http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Haemanthus%20crispus.JPG From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Thu Sep 25 02:16:56 2003 Message-Id: <3F728853.2090201@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: New picture on the WIKI Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 01:16:51 -0500 Looks like it was worth the wait, Doug. Thanks for the view. Douglas Westfall wrote: >For all of you Haemanthaphiles, I have placed a picture of Haemanthus >crispus which is blooming for me - my first in 12 years of "ownership." > >Doug Westfall > -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-685-1339 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Thu Sep 25 06:51:52 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030925205533.0085e430@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: New picture on the WIKI Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:55:33 +1000 At 09:40 24/09/03 -0700, you wrote: >For all of you Haemanthaphiles, I have placed a picture of Haemanthus >crispus which is blooming for me - my first in 12 years of "ownership." > Doug, Nice. Is it as elongated as appears in the photo? What are the leaves on this species like? Great pic of a flower that I find is often hard to photograph clearly, particularly when trying to photograph the whole stem and flowerhead. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From PS3828@aol.com Thu Sep 25 09:17:21 2003 Message-Id: <1a2.1a6aafdf.2ca444d9@aol.com> From: PS3828@aol.com Subject: Some Help Please Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:17:13 EDT I have been trying to message John Ingram but get my mail returned stating that the address I have does not have an account with yahoo. I have this address for him. FloralArtristy2000@yahoo.com Paul Schultz From ernestwells@mindspring.com Thu Sep 25 09:50:47 2003 Message-Id: <3777425.1064497846488.JavaMail.root@wamui03.slb.atl.earthlink.net> From: ernestwells@mindspring.com Subject: Some Help Please Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 06:50:45 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Here is the address I have for John. Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com -----Original Message----- From: PS3828@aol.com Sent: Sep 25, 2003 6:17 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Some Help Please I have been trying to message John Ingram but get my mail returned stating that the address I have does not have an account with yahoo. I have this address for him. FloralArtristy2000@yahoo.com Paul Schultz _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From eagle85@flash.net Thu Sep 25 11:32:49 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: New picture on the WIKI Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:22:24 -0700 Paul TyermanDoug Westfall ptyerman@ozemail.com.au1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > At 09:40 24/09/03 -0700, you wrote: >> For all of you Haemanthaphiles, I have placed a picture of Haemanthus >> crispus which is blooming for me - my first in 12 years of "ownership." >> > Doug, > > Nice. Is it as elongated as appears in the photo? What are the leaves on > this species like? **** Paul, Yes, the pic came out rather accurately. The leaves on some are undulate and on others, they are not - seems individual by bulb. The leaves are never over 1 cm in width. > > Great pic of a flower that I find is often hard to photograph clearly, > particularly when trying to photograph the whole stem and flowerhead. ****** THANKS Doug From eagle85@flash.net Thu Sep 25 11:34:21 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: New picture on the WIKI Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:24:11 -0700 Kelly IrvinDoug Westfall bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Looks like it was worth the wait, Doug. Thanks for the view. > > Douglas Westfall wrote: > >> For all of you Haemanthaphiles, I have placed a picture of Haemanthus >> crispus which is blooming for me - my first in 12 years of "ownership." >> >> Doug Westfall >> Kelly, It really was/is! Doug From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Thu Sep 25 17:48:19 2003 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20030926075158.018d2450@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: New picture on the WIKI Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:51:58 +1000 > >Yes, the pic came out rather accurately. The leaves on some are undulate >and on others, they are not - seems individual by bulb. The leaves are never >over 1 cm in width. >> Doug, Cool! A thin strappy Haemanthus...... very different to anything I have seen before. I note just how variable even my "basic" H. coccineus are, with some having long leaves about 4 inches wide and up to nearly 2 foot long, while the plant next to it has leaves half the length and 1.5x the width. It makes for fascinating viewing to the unitiated as I have them right outside my front door and visitors often ask what they are. I have also planted a couple of different ones together in a clump in the ground..... this definitely affects the leaf growth as the leaves have become a little more "chunky" for them. Also interesting to note that a couple of the ones I have in that clump (they came from a different source to any of my others) have a distinct blue tinge to the leaves, particularly noticeable when first shooting. Now the idea of a Haemanthus that has thin undulating leaves is just weird , but GOOD!! I personally would love to see a picture of the leaves as well when you have one. Always great to learn about new species. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From arnold@nj.rr.com Thu Sep 25 20:12:43 2003 Message-Id: <3F738475.8030609@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: colchicum "Rosy Dawn" Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:12:37 -0400 Another for the collection. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_Rosy_Dawn3.JPG Arnold New Jersey From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Sep 25 22:46:08 2003 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Clivia seeds Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:46:02 -0700 I'd like some more information on the clivia seeds, please, Rachel. Diane Whitehead From msittner@mcn.org Fri Sep 26 00:45:55 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030925210111.00d31e70@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: What's Blooming Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:42:41 -0700 Dear All, Coming from late winter in South Africa to late summer in California is a bit of a shock since everything looked green to me in South Africa in spite of the drought and this time of year in California the hills are brown. We haven't had any significant rainfall since May where I live, just fog and light rainfall one day this month that didn't end up doing more than settling the dust. As Arnold keeps showing all those Colchicums and Doug his Haemanthus I feel compelled to report what is blooming here and show a couple of wiki additions as well. Gladiolus carmineus which is one of my very faithful in the ground bulbs started blooming while I was gone and is still blooming throughout my garden. It has reseeded in my garden and I have many delightful patches. It is known as the Cliff Gladiolus as it is common in Hermanus where it overlooks the ocean. Here in Gualala I don't think it is tall enough to see the ocean, but I can see the ocean through the trees. I still have Amaryllis belladonna hybrids in bloom. Some more started while I was gone and the last to bloom last year is just now appearing. For the first time I have blooms on pots of Nerine angustifolia and Nerine platypetala and there are spikes on N. bowdenii too. My first Polyxena is flowering too. But the two I want to share are a new Gladiolus and my first Oxalis. The Gladiolus is going to be another one of those memory plants we talked about as a topic of the week. It is G. martleyi. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Gladiolus_martleyi2.jpg This is another one of those that blooms before the leaves appear. It is very delicate, pink with pretty markings on the lower tepals. The reason why it has special meaning for me this year is that it came from IBSA seed collected by Gordon Summerfield in Betty's Bay. I had quite a few very interesting conversations on my trip to South Africa with Gordon. Next week when we are talking about the IBSA meeting I will probably devote a day to some of the things I learned from Gordon. Secondly my husband, Patty Colville, and I stayed in the delightful beach house of IBSA member Henry Pauw in Betty's Bay. Not only did he and his wife Helga feed us well before they left us on our own, but Henry also drove us around the area and led us on a very nice hike where we had splendid views of the area. So when I looked on my tag to see what was blooming and looked at the details I was really pleased. The other addition to the wiki is my first Oxalis to bloom in this growing season, Oxalis hirta 'Gothenburg'. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis_hirta_Gothenburg.jpg This Oxalis was a present from Lauw and I didn't manage to get it to bloom the first two years I had it, but this year I planted it in a much bigger pot and it has rewarded me. The regular Oxalis hirta increases radically each year so you need to have a lot of friends to share it with. This cultivar doesn't increase very much and is a bit taller. Maybe some of our Oxalis fans can tell us more about it. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Fri Sep 26 11:04:37 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030926075333.01b0aa10@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Oxalis source Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:58:33 -0700 Dear All, Our newest list member from Italy would like a source of Oxalis corymbosa aureoreticulata. The note originally came to the list as a non member post which meant that it only came to the administrators. I'm afraid it has been deleted so I am asking for him. Can anyone help? Thanks. Mary Sue From onager@midtown.net Fri Sep 26 12:58:12 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030926094444.01794358@pop3.midtown.net> From: Joyce Miller Subject: Drench Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:46:42 -0700 Hi there, Please supply the meaning of fungicide used as a "drench." Does this mean to water till the solution comes out of the drain hole; does it mean soaking the pot in solution. Sincerely, Joyce Miller, Sacramento, CA From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Fri Sep 26 14:55:29 2003 Message-Id: <127.31631e02.2ca5e592@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Oxalis source Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:55:14 EDT In a message dated 9/26/2003 11:04:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, msittner@mcn.org writes: > would like a source of Oxalis corymbosa > aureoreticulata. Glasshouseworks has it but I don't recall if they export. Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From eagle85@flash.net Fri Sep 26 16:04:45 2003 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Drench Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:54:31 -0700 Joyce MillerDoug Westfall onager@midtown.net1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Hi there, > Please supply the meaning of fungicide used as a "drench." Does this mean > to water till the solution comes out of the drain hole; does it mean > soaking the pot in solution. Sincerely, Joyce Miller, Sacramento, CA > ****** Joyce, As an English teacher, I have NO excuse. What I mean is to spray the plant (esp any "critters") using a spray bottle. Otherwise, use the Bayer's product to water as the bulb needs. One watering tends to care for the problem. I sometimes apply a second time. Water w.Bayer's just before bulb goes dormant and again when the new growth just begins. Treat any active critters w/spray as needed. The effect will be QUICK, as in a week. Feel free to ask further questions as I'm sold on it! Doug From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Fri Sep 26 17:52:23 2003 Message-Id: <20030926215222.50390.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Delph seeds Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:52:22 -0700 (PDT) I hit the mother load. There were tons of seeds today. I collected quite a few so there should be enough for all who are interested. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From SheriAnnRicherson@exoticgardening.com Sat Sep 27 00:02:19 2003 Message-Id: <007801c384ac$2288fc30$0100a8c0@sheri> From: "SheriAnnRicherson" Subject: Unknown bulb photo Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:02:08 -0500 My unknown bulb was identified as Dipcadi serotinum. Many thanks to Alberto! Sheri Do you like gardening? Then visit http://www.exoticgardening.com Do you need a freelance writer, editor, photographer or speaker? Contact Sheri Ann Richerson (765) 674-6167 SheriAnnRicherson@exoticgardening.com http://sheriannricherson.exoticgardening.com From geophyte@sbcglobal.net Sat Sep 27 01:31:58 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20030926222739.00a696c0@pop.sbcglobal.net> From: Jamie Subject: Unknown bulb photo Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:29:49 -0700 Sheri, That's a fascinating flower. Where did you obtain it? I can't seem to find any listings on the Internet. Jamie From geophyte@sbcglobal.net Sat Sep 27 01:37:31 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20030926223313.00a6c460@pop.sbcglobal.net> From: Jamie Subject: Brunsvigia seed arrived! Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:35:21 -0700 Thank you Dell. The seed arrived in great shape, and as a bonus, it was already sprouted! I suppose that saves me a little work. Jamie From c-mueller@tamu.edu Sat Sep 27 07:37:55 2003 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: Brunsvigia Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 06:33:27 -0500 Thanks, Dell, for packing so carefully when you sent the sprouted Brunsvigia seed. They came through perfectly! The seeds are bright green, and some had not only a long, ambitious root but the recognizable beginnings of a "bulb" "stalk" and "first leaf." When I read in an English bulb book that they might take 15 years to bloom, I wonder if I will last long enough to see them....but that might just be England, not Texas. Cynthia W. Mueller College Station, Tx Zone 8b-9 From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat Sep 27 10:05:44 2003 Message-Id: <3F759938.7080702@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: colchicums Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:05:44 -0400 Some additional views of colchicum. With speciosum added. Note the ants all over the speciosum. Bowles refers to "myrmecochory" a mechanism of seed dispersal by ants. Perhaps they also pollinate the speciosum by climbing all over the fertile parts. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_Conquest9.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_Rosy_Dawn11.JPG http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_speciosum4.JPG Arnold New Jersey From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Sep 27 12:24:12 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030927091851.00bb4d78@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: colchicums Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:24:03 -0700 Arnold wrote, >Some additional views of colchicum. With speciosum added. Note the ants >all over the speciosum. Bowles refers to "myrmecochory" a mechanism of >seed dispersal by ants. Perhaps they also pollinate the speciosum by >climbing all over the fertile parts. I haven't noticed any ants on my colchicums here, but they are buzzing with honeybees, which are still plentiful here despite the terrible mite plague. Ant dispersal is important for many geophytes, and ants love bulb frames (I get stung horribly when turning out the dry pots, but perhaps it's good for arthritis, as bee stings are said to be?), so it's not unusual to find cyclamens, Gymnospermium, and other plants whose seeds are attractive to ants coming up in the plunge medium I also put a lot of Colchicum photos on the wiki recently, so when you look at Arnold's you can also look at them. I don't know how to make the links in an e-mail so have not announced them. There is also a new photo of Sternbergia greuterana. Regarding Jamie's question about Dipcadi serotinum, it is a very small flower (you can't see the scale in the photo that was posted) that appears at odd times in summer. I have several that bloom a month or more apart. The colors are all very "subtle," to put it kindly -- dull green and peach-tan. The seed is very easy to collect and set in abundance, so you can usually find it in thelarger seed exchanges, such as NARGS and AGS. The plant is said to be rather tender, but I have some in a frame that is hardly protected at all, and they are doing well. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From msittner@mcn.org Sat Sep 27 14:13:55 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030927105044.00b3b940@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki links Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:12:39 -0700 Dear All, All of the wiki pages start the same: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php That gets you to our home page. If you add the name of the genus after this you will get to that genus page. If you go to the page instead of the file you can read what the person has said about their picture. So if you want to look at Arnold and Jane's Colchicums you go to: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Colchicum And if you want to look at Jane's Sternbergia it would be: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Sternbergia I don't know if she announced it at the time but Jane also added a very interesting Calochortus weedii picture while I was gone: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Calchortus Angelo Porcelli is putting on pictures of bulbs in habitat that are native to his area of Italy. As he adds more and more I may also make a wiki page just for that area with all his pictures there too like we are planning to do for Bos Klof in South Africa and hopefully we can do this winter for the Mendocino Coast Botanical Gardens bulb collection. For now you can see his new Narcissus pictures on the Narcissus page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Narcissus And his Cyclamen on the Cyclamen page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Cyclamen And his Biarum pictures on the Biarum page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Biarum If you set your browser home to the Photograph and Information page like I do: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/PhotographsAndInformation you can immediately find whatever genus you might want to look at. If you look at the urls above you will see they all start the same. All that is different is the name of the page is added on the end. Would whoever posted pictures of Fritillaria eastwoodii contact me privately so I can help you get those pictures on a wiki page? Pictures that are unclaimed and not put on a wiki page are eventually deleted from the file page. Thanks in advance. Mary Sue From angelopalm69@inwind.it Sat Sep 27 15:49:45 2003 Message-Id: <001a01c38530$30b07160$85af623e@f1q3z7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Biarum tenuifolius Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:47:30 +0200 Dear group, I have just added two photos of this very elusive species on the wiki. Shame that scent can't be send on the net yet !! http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Biarum Enjoy Angelo From brutem@mcn.org Sat Sep 27 17:39:23 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030927142830.00ae3490@mail.mcn.org> From: Bob Rutemoeller Subject: Wiki link for Calochortus Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:37:48 -0700 The correct link for part of Mary Sue's message should be: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Calochortus The spelling had one letter missing and wanted to make a new page. Bob Bob Rutemoeller brutem@mcn.org From jglatt@ptd.net Sun Sep 28 10:08:02 2003 Message-Id: <000301c385cb$71742c00$02d3bacc@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: "commercial" freesias Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:18:51 -0400 Last year I potted up and flowered some freesia cultivars - blue, yellow, and white. They flowered in late winter in my cool (50° Fahrenheit) greenhouse. Smelled delicious and were a good antidote to the winter blahs. Recently I was just getting ready to discard them, vaguely remembering that they were only supposed to be good for one go-around. But the bulbs, having sat all summer hot and dry in their pots in my greenhouse, look really plump and sound. So maybe that is information put out by vendors who would prefer I purchase new bulbs rather than recycle old ones. My question: can I re-use these, and if yes, do I just start watering them or is it better to repot with fresh potting mix. Thanks in advance. Judy in soggy wet New Jersey From JFlintoff@aol.com Sun Sep 28 12:04:07 2003 Message-Id: <1ad.1a143968.2ca85ec2@aol.com> From: JFlintoff@aol.com Subject: Colchicums Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:56:50 EDT A few comments on names that have been posted: C.autumnale Major is a commercial synonym of C. byzantinum. Foliage is very wide an prominently veined, very unlike the narrow smooth leaves of C. autumnale. C. Conquest is now considered to be Glory of Heemstede. I was given some corms as " Rosy Dream " that may also be this ( not to be confused with the distinct Rosy Dawn ) C.byzantinum Album is being called Innocence at the National Collection in Norfolk England. Album is inadmissable as a cultivar name since it only appeared in print well after 1959, the cut-off date for clonal names using Latin. I can certainly second Rick's comments on C. corsicum. The corms don't seem to multiply much, but it is very easily raised from seed ( even dried seed exchange seeds ) and quickly comes to flowering size. The wee goblets are so welcome when they appear. Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island, Washington, USA zone 8 From hansen.nursery@verizon.net Sun Sep 28 12:26:42 2003 Message-Id: <004b01c385db$282744a0$40abe343@default> From: "Robin L. Hansen" Subject: Drench Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:11:18 -0700 >From a nurseryman's standpoint, "drench" is a thorough soaking of the plant, including the media it's in. And just to get technical, I sometimes use a large tray (in this case one of those "under the bed" plastic storage boxes without the lid to put all the plants in I'm going to drench. This technique would be used where there were root beasties and where you need an exposure of the pesticide of 30 seconds to the roots to be sure to kill them. Robin Hansen Coastal southwest Oregon, Zone 9 From rmsachs@ucdavis.edu Sun Sep 28 13:10:38 2003 Message-Id: From: "Roy M. Sachs" Subject: 'commercial freesias': Freesias in 2nd year and beyond Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:55:34 -0700 Judy: I've grown 'commercial' freesias for 12 years, sometimes with little trouble, but all seem to pick up viruses eventually, sometimes even after the first year. We have significant aphid and white fly attacks, particularly in greenhouses, and I've assumed that that's the source of viruses. It's a good idea to get rid of any freesia, brand new or in those carried over, that show the characteristic virus-induced leaf variegation. All of the Dutch bred freesia that I've grown became virus-infected and I presume that that's the reason for the admonition. The only freesias that seems to remain virus-free for years and years are F. alba (I've had them growing since 1990). Roy From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Sep 28 14:21:45 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030928111641.00bb1c50@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Sternbergia greuteriana Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:21:36 -0700 After posting the photo of Sternbergia greuteriana, I realized that there is very little information on it available in standard sources, so here is some more: Sternbergia greuteriana Kamari et Artelari (sp. nov. 1990). Native to Karpathos, S. Greece. Narrow bright green leaves (not glaucous as in other small species), slightly emergent at flowering time as in S. sicula. Antoine Hoog writes, "This is the only stoloniferous species in the genus, producing pea-sized offsets at shallow depth, in nature probably very useful for the spread of the species, as these offsets will roll and get washed in all directions; hardiness has been ascertained down to -12 degrees C." This definitely is a good increaser. I have grown it from purchased bulbs (MK.0187) and from seed, so I have several clones. I dry it off in the summer. Although relatively recent to cultivation, S. greuteriana holds a lot of promise! Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From msittner@mcn.org Sun Sep 28 14:46:55 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030928094349.00c0ca10@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: IBSA Symposium 2003/Vist to South Africa TOW Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:43:45 -0700 Dear All, I am sorry to have such a long title for this week's topic of the week but I hoped it would be inconclusive and would give all of you who attended the IBSA Symposium and traveled to South Africa in August-September an opportunity to share with the members of this list. I will start out by talking about the Symposium and as the week progresses post about the rest of our trip and about some of the things I learned from talking to people while in South Africa. Sometimes this will be a follow-up to something discussed on this list either because it was a question never answered or just because I was soliciting opinions on the subject from people who lived in South Africa. Sometimes it would be something new. I hope people will ask questions if something is not clear and will correct any mistakes. It was a very intense time, especially in the beginning, so I could very easily have gotten something wrong. And my hands were cold so some of my notes are a little challenging to decipher. Please some of the rest of you contribute as well so I'm not the only one who is posting. IBSA for those who do not know is the Indigenous Bulb Association of South Africa, a group with monthly meetings in South Africa that is interested in South African bulbs. I have been a member for a number of years since this is an interest of mine as well and even though I can't go to the meetings I value the Bulletin produced once a year and currently edited by Rachel Saunders, the monthly bulb chat previously written by Andries de Villiers and now written by Alan Horstmann, and the seed exchange. The IBSA committee decided to have a Bulb Symposium a number of years ago following another Bulb Symposium held in South Africa that was too expensive for most of their members to attend. That Symposium also had only a few talks about South African bulbs so the plan for this one was to focus on their country and its bulbs and to organize a meeting that many of their members would both be able to and want to attend. The plan was for two days of talks followed by three days of field trips. As this event was scheduled three years ahead of time the one thing that could not be predicted was the weather. As it turns out the weather made it very difficult for the organizers. There were over 90 people in attendance. Of the international delegates there was one person from New Zealand, three from Australia, one from the Czech Republic, one from the Netherlands, five from the UK, one from France, and eight of us from the United States. Everyone else was from various parts of South Africa. The International delegates had our meals together (except for the field lunches) and some of the South African delegates joined us for some of the meals. It was very cold the first two days when we were in the meetings and it was raining outside with snow on the mountains. There wasn't any heating in our meeting rooms or our rondavels so no one was in a hurry to rush back to their rooms and we had many wonderful conversations with our eating companions. Instead of asking, "What do you do?" the question was, "What do you grow?" Soon the noise level in the room escalated as people were engaged. The first talk Monday was given by Gordon Summerfield. Gordon was the previous chairman of IBSA for at least 7 years. When Gordon retired, he decided to devote himself to growing bulbs. He has a very large collection and when he is not playing golf or out exploring in the veld he can probably be found observing, pollinating, cleaning seed, etc. He is definitely passionate about his bulbs. I talked to Gordon one night at dinner and visited him and his collection twice and will share a little of his philosophy and what I learned from him in a later email if there is interest in this. His talk was "Creating the right environment and conditions for growing bulbous plants." It was a great way to start. He was followed by Peter Knippels who has written the book Growing Bulbs Indoors. Reading that book you'd never guess that Peter is a very young man since it sounds like he has years of experience. Since Peter is from the Netherlands and can't grow a lot of his bulbs outside he grows bulbs in his attic near a window under lights. In his talk he showed us pictures and described how he does it. Then he went on to giving his talk, "'New' SA bulbous plants in the dutch bulb industry". Some of the popular South African bulbs he talked about were Freesia, Zantedeschia, Gladiolus, Eucomis, and Ixia. In the past there was a lot of forcing of bulbs and not so much anymore. He mentioned there were 45 Zantedeschia growers. Virus is a problem with this genus, but new varieties are coming on. Eucomis is popular because is can be grown in the ground, harvested by machine, and there are new varieties appearing. Cameron McMaster then talked about Eastern Cape Bulbs and showed pictures. These bulbs are from a summer rainfall area with occasional water in winter. Rainfall and altitude varies. Many are endemic to those areas. He showed us pictures of Brunsvigia, Haemanthus, Cyrtanthus, Nerine, Dierama, Gladiolus, Watsonia, Moraea, Hesperantha, Hypoxis, Eucomis, Lachenalia, Albuca, Massonia, Ledbouria and something else I can't make out in my notes. Interestingly some of those species are found in winter rainfall areas too which proves you really need to know your species to grow it properly. Just a few comments from my notes: Haemanthus montanus flowers before leaves are produced, is found in areas with poor drainage. Haemanthus humilis is a cliff grower. The sticky seeds stick to the cliffs. Hesperantha huttonii forms mats, grows in the shade. Massonia jasminiflora is very highly scented. Hypoxis germination is slow, may take 1-5 years. Cyrtanthus that need fire to bloom--Try drying off plant and using smoke filter water or bury your pot and make a fire on top Rod Saunders then showed us a slide show, A season of bulbs. These included pictures of bulbs that only bloom after fires. Rod had great pictures so this was a treat. In the afternoon Dee Snijman gave a talk on Amazing Amaryllids, Specialised but high risk lifestyles. I was very excited to hear her talk. She is very soft spoken and speaks carefully and precisely. I took pages of notes. Lauw de Jager has warned me to be concise and I have already broken that so this is another talk that I could summarize in another email if there is interest. After her talk, John Rourke told the story of the amazing find of Clivia mirabilis in the Western Cape. It was found in screes and cliffs below a rock plateau near Nieuwoudtville in a semi-desert area in an area with only 400 mm of rainfall, relentless sun. It has leathery leaves and curved pendulous orange flowers with green tips, red pedicels, and red ovaries. It takes up almost every drop of water during the wet season and is almost like a succulent. He speculated the pollinators were attracted to the red pedicels and ovaries. These Clivias offer hope for breeding Clivias that can be grown in the sun. The seeds ripen very rapidly. I was pleased to hear that the plants are protected in a reserve, but there has been an attempt to get seed to growers so plant collectors will be less tempted to dig them from the wild. (The plant habitat makes this a bit difficult however.) And the seed is growing so perhaps one day this newly discovered genus will be better known. The final talk of the day was Conservation of the Renosterveld by Tilla Raimondo. The renosterveld is one of those terms I have read a lot, but never really tried to master. In the past, 46% of the Cape Floral province was composed of renosterveld. Now there is only 7% left in the West Coast and 14% left elsewhere. The threats to it are too much grazing and irregular or too frequent fires. Since these areas are shrub lands with nutrient rich soils (shale, granite) they are popular for grazing. Rainfall in these areas is between 250-650 mm. Less rain is found in the succulent Karoo vegetation types and more in fynbos. Besides shrubs in these areas there are also annuals and seasonal geophytes. So from a bulb lovers stand point losing these habitats is worrisome. Fire may be necessary for the bulbs, but too often fires encourage alien grasses. How often fire is needed hasn't really been researched enough. We were encouraged that they are trying to find the areas that are left and reach the farmers who own them to teach them about how valuable these areas are. Bob and I and Lauw de Jager and Patty Colville later had an opportunity to explore an area of renosterveld where we were delighted with the bulbs in flower. We were very lucky that Rhoda and Cameron McMaster arranged this trip for us to Bos Klof and came with us as well. Later we were to see a wonderful area of renosterveld called the Drayton railroad siding. This area off the N2 and near a railroad was one of the treasures of our trip. I counted at least 30 different geophytes in bloom the first day we visited it and some things were in mass bloom like Gladiolus liliaceus in many different variations and color forms. There were also some wonderful Oxalis here, masses of Spiloxene capensis, many Moraeas, Watsonias, Babianas. There is not space to list them all. The super star for me of the plot was Aristea biflora. Once again I am wishing I had better luck germinating these. This area is being looked after by a man who comes and weeds. All around it are either agricultural fields and shrubs with only a few geophytes present. This is the famous last known spot for Moraea insolens. It has been burned in the recent past, but could have been burned at the wrong time after Moraea insolens was in growth. At any rate we didn't see it and others haven't in a number of years either. Hopefully one of these days I'll get pictures of some of these on the wiki, especially that Aristea. I had planned to talk about the talks in day two and the field trips, but this is already too long and as I said before I have been admonished by Lauw to keep my remarks brief. So the rest will have to wait for another email unless someone else in attendance beats me to it. Mary Sue From puppincuff@cox.net Sun Sep 28 18:28:39 2003 Message-Id: <001401c38610$4d501b00$738e0544@oc.cox.net> From: "puppincuff" Subject: "commercial" freesias Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 15:31:45 -0700 Judy, Like Roy I've grown commercial Freesias for a long time. I found virus attacks the pink and blue shades eventually killing them, but the major 'problem' for me is that after a while they all revert to yellow. chuck Schwartz zone 9b puppincuff@cox.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Glattstein" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 7:18 AM Subject: [pbs] "commercial" freesias > Last year I potted up and flowered some freesia cultivars - blue, yellow, > and white. They flowered in late winter in my cool (50° Fahrenheit) > greenhouse. Smelled delicious and were a good antidote to the winter blahs. > > Recently I was just getting ready to discard them, vaguely remembering that > they were only supposed to be good for one go-around. But the bulbs, having > sat all summer hot and dry in their pots in my greenhouse, look really plump > and sound. So maybe that is information put out by vendors who would prefer > I purchase new bulbs rather than recycle old ones. > > My question: can I re-use these, and if yes, do I just start watering them > or is it better to repot with fresh potting mix. > > Thanks in advance. > > Judy in soggy wet New Jersey > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From dells@voicenet.com Sun Sep 28 23:16:19 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: BX 42 in the mail Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:15:37 -0400 Dear All, The last of the Pacific BX 42 packages will go into the mail tomorrow, Monday. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From dells@voicenet.com Mon Sep 29 06:27:41 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 43 Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:27:06 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 43" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Mary Sue Ittner: Bulbs/Corms: 1. Oxalis obtusa--Can't remember which 2. Oxalis sp. MV #3, from Mike Mace after lost tag, winter growing 3. Oxalis purpurea-white, winter growing 4. Romulea hirta--Winter growing, easily grown. 5. Sparaxis elegans--red, but doesn't have all the markings so I think could be a hybrid, but Jim Duggan sells it as this 6. Sparaxis parviflora--small flower, winter growing 7. Tulipa batalini-- One year I got this one mixed up with T. linifolia and I mostly have them separated, but could have a ringer in this lot. I think someone is calling them both by the same name and I can't remember which is right. This is a very charming yellow short tulip. 8. Watsonia hybrid--pink, medium size, winter growing, few From Jane McGary: Bulbs/corms: 9. Allium rubrovittatum < seed. Congested oval head of white, red-striped flowers. Rare. 10. Arum palaestinum From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: IBSA Symposium 2003/Vist to South Africa TOW Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:28:58 -0700 Dear All, On the second day of the IBSA Symposium Leighan Mossop, an employee at the Cape Peninsula National Park, talked about the plant trade and their efforts in the park to protect the biodiversity of their flora. The three problems are development, alien vegetation, and illegal collection of plants by rare plant collectors and medicinal plant collectors. She told us that about 3000 plants had been used for medicine and some of them for thousands of years. So there is a demand for these plants. Syndicates have been developed to supply medicinal plants to areas that don't have them. The next talk was given by Ernst van Jaarsveld who is the curator of the succulent collection at Kirstenbosch. His talk was entitled, "Cliff Hanging Bulbs." He told of going out to search for these plants and showed pictures of some of his adventures and some of the ones he had found. Many have rounded or compact leaves and some are very tiny. If you can obtain them they often are easy to grow and make good basket plants. Some of them retain their drooping nature in cultivation. Sometimes bulblets drop down and you can find them if you look for them on the bottom of the cliff. Seed is dispersed by wind or gravity. Rachel Saunders presented a paper of Charles Craib's on Zantedeschias from Sekhukuneland. She showed pictures of some yellow flowered species, Z. jucunda, Z. pentlandii, and another one which may be a new species. The latter grows in an area that is very wet in summer and dry and sunny in winter and blooms all summer if the soil remains wet. It smells like a Tulbaghia. The next speaker was Jim Holmes who has a very large nursery in Stellenbosch that sells bulbs. He also exports. Many of us enjoyed visiting his nursery after the Symposium. Jim's talk was on Oxalis. I found the talk very interesting and took a lot of notes especially about different species and their habitats. This information is often difficult to come by and unfortunately this genus was not included in the new Manning and Goldblatt Encyclopedia which has given us so much good information about other things. Right before this talk in a conversation during the tea break I was told by one of the advisors on the book that Oxalis was not included because it was not a bulb. I asked what it was then and thought it was certainly a geophyte and corms, rhizomes, and tubers were included in the book. I couldn't get an answer. Jim told us of a woman who was working on the Dna and the biology of this genus. He told us she had determined that the South African Oxalis were true bulbs. In the book Cape Plants 118 are listed in the Cape Floral Kingdom so that may be the reason they are not included in the Encyclopedia. That section would have been very long and the key a huge challenge. Jim said Oxalis was the largest South African genera of true bulbs. There are 206 species and 270 varieties and probably a 60 or 80 species waiting to be described. He said there were 45 forms of Oxalis flava alone. We have talked on this list about how it is rare for most of the Oxalis in cultivation in countries besides South Africa to set very much seed. This contrasts with South Africa where a lot of seed is produced that is projected from the plant and almost immediately starts to germinate making it impossible to save for seed exchanges. If you grow a number of different species and are not careful you will soon have mixed species in your collection. We saw good examples of this in the Karoo Botanical Garden in Worcester where in some of the pots there looked like there could be three or four different things. I can't imagine how they could ever be sorted out. Why the difference I wondered. Lack of pollinators perhaps? Jim said Oxalis has a very short dormancy and delegates from Australia observed the same thing. I found that very interesting because in California with our dry summers the dormancy for my Oxalis is just as long as it is for many of my other South African bulbs. Some of mine start going dormant in late spring and there are no signs of action until mid fall in some of them even if I water them. Apparently just a little moisture can be enough to start them into growth and perhaps we don't get enough. Even when I water dry pots the water often runs down the side of the pots and doesn't really get the soil moist right away. I know there are a number of people on this list very interested in Oxalis so I hope if I haven't reported any of this accurately that Jim will correct me. The next speaker was scheduled to be Harold Koopowitz speaking on Clivias in California, but he was unable to attend. We had all been intrigued with all the wonderful plants that IBSA members brought and placed on display tables under lights (it was cold and raining remember) hoping they would open. So Harold's time was spent talking about some of these plants that we all clustered around during the breaks with a cup of something hot in our hands. After lunch we were treated to a Floral Rhapsody, a double projector slide show with music of some of the wonderful South African flowers arranged by Alan Horstmann and guaranteed to keep us awake. The pictures from several different photographers were first rate and we felt like even if we weren't going to see the floral displays we had read about in the field we could at least see them on screen. The next speaker, Robin Jangle gave a most interesting talk on Gethyllis. It's another talk that I took a lot of notes on and would be worthy of an entire email. There were a lot of Gethyllis in leaf on the display tables. I found them absolutely fascinating even without flowers or the fruit which appears at an entirely different time as the leaves or the flowers. The final speaker was Dave Lehmiller from Texas talking on Crinum. A lot of IBSA members are more interested in growing species than hybrids. Dave showed a lot of species of Crinum that he has seen in the wild and then showed the results of hybridizing between the different species. The results produced plants that were often different and he thought improved. His talk generated a lot of interest I suspect in people that hadn't expected they would find a talk about hybrids so interesting. Tomorrow I will write about the field days. Mary Sue From arnold@nj.rr.com Mon Sep 29 20:59:07 2003 Message-Id: <3F78D559.8090805@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: colchicum speciosum atrorubens Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:59:05 -0400 http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum_speciosum_atrorubens_2.JPG From mikemace@worldnet.att.net Mon Sep 29 23:55:54 2003 Message-Id: <000601c38709$60b5f9e0$040b510c@d1fqn01> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: IBSA Symposium Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:14:42 -0700 Mary Sue wrote: >I could summarize in another email if there is interest Yes, please do! Mike From roberth6@mac.com Tue Sep 30 01:43:50 2003 Message-Id: From: Robert Hamilton Subject: IBSA Symposium 2003/Vist to South Africa TOW Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:41:50 +1000 Thanks Mary Sue, On Monday, September 29, 2003, at 04:43 AM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > The first talk Monday was given by Gordon Summerfield. I talked to > Gordon one night at dinner and visited him and his collection twice > and will share a little of his philosophy and what I learned from him > in a later email if there is interest in this. Yes please. > In the afternoon Dee Snijman gave a talk on Amazing Amaryllids, > Specialised but high risk lifestyles. I was very excited to hear her > talk. She is very soft spoken and speaks carefully and precisely. I > took pages of notes. Lauw de Jager has warned me to be concise and I > have already broken that so this is another talk that I could > summarize in another email if there is interest. Yes please and the same applies to the Gethyllis mentioned in your other email. Regards, Rob in Tasmania From dells@voicenet.com Tue Sep 30 06:57:18 2003 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 43 CLOSED Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 06:56:37 -0400 Wow! DID THAT GO FAST! Packages will go out later this week. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From davidxvictor@mailblocks.com Tue Sep 30 14:17:22 2003 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030930181529.00bc4660@app4.mailblocks.com> From: David Victor Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 8, Issue 35 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:15:32 +0100 Hi there, Firstly, a few words of introduction as I'm new to the list. As Mary Sue, I am also a member of IBSA and attended the recent conference in South Africa. I'm a keen grower of South African bulbs, living in England, where most of them are grown under cold glass. My main interests in this area are Oxalis, Amaryllids (particularly Nerine), Ferraria and the strange tuberous species of Pelargonium found in Section Hoarea of that genus. I've been reading Mary Sue's pieces on the conference and thought that I might add a few notes. Firstly, on Oxalis. The last major taxonomic work on the South African part of the genus was carried out by retired Paymaster-Captain Salter of the Royal Navy, who lived for many years in Cape Town, his hobby being to work on Oxalis. In 1944 he published his major work "The Genus Oxalis in South Africa - A Taxonomic Revision". This was published by The Cape Times under the Authority of the trustees of the National Botanic Gardens of south Africa, Kirstenbosch. In the book he points out that his field work has been limited to the South West of that country and that he has had to rely on herbarium samples for the rest of the country. However, as most of the species occur in the area studied, he does not feel that it too difficult an issue. He also points out that studying live material is particularly important as crucial elements of the analysis depend on floral structures and root-systems, which are not normally available in herbarium samples. He adds that "It is, perhaps, not generally realised that only a proportion of the existing forms are yet known. The genus is one of the most prolific in South Africa, both in quantity and variety, and all collectors of Oxalis, including myself, have only explored a small fraction of the huge and often somewhat inaccessible areas in which this genus abounds, areas in which, during the main Oxalis season (mid-winter) there is little else to attract a botanist." In his revision, he divides the genus into eleven Sections, consisting of some 202 species. As Mary Sue says, there is a South African botanist currently working on a revision of the genus. She is Dr Leanne Dreyer, who I was lucky enough to meet a few years ago. I believe that, at the time, she was working on her Ph. D. thesis, which was based on her re-examination of Salter's work by means of pollen morphology. She was brought to see my collection by Prof. Charlie Stirton, at that time Director of Research at RBG Kew. Before he left South Africa he had considered carrying out a revision of the genus and, to this end, had collected a great deal of material. Sadly, when he left, he had to leave the collection behind at Stellenbosch. Of course, its worth adding that a major part of the genus is in the Americas. There various parts are given within individual countries local flora, where they exist. There was talk at one time that Prof. Alicia Lourteig was intending to produce a revision of the genus overall. However, I believe that is no longer the case. A colleague of mine, Richard Clifton, has produced an overall species checklist of all of the species that he has been able to "identify" i.e. trace, as part of his series of checklists on the family Geraniaceae (yes it was located there at one time!). At this level, the system soon seems to fall into chaos. Few botanists have tried to pull together an overall picture of Oxalis and those that did, all did so a long time ago. Knuth (the top man on Geraniaceae historically, as part of Das Planzenreich, 1897/1930) reckoned 7 genera in the family Oxalidaceae and this was agreed by Lawrence (1969). However Hutchinson reckoned 3 genera and the RHS says 6. If you add on the other odds and ends that are floating around there may be 8 or 9. If we can't even agree on the genera in the family, its difficult to believe we can agree on anything else! In any event, there are several hundred species shown in the book, although I don't have the patience to go through it to add up just how many! To pick up on one of Mary Sue's other points, dormancy in Oxalis. Most of my South African species are just coming into leaf and flower now. Indeed, the first species came into flower on 10th September, a few days after I returned from South Africa. It was brought into growth by watering on the day of my return. The rest are following quickly. Virtually all of them will have flowered by Christmas time and will be returning to dormancy early in the new year. So, most of them will be dormant for six months or so. Finally, a question. Has the list ever thought of having Pelargonium Section Hoarea included on the wiki? ( and by the way, what on earth does wiki stand for?). They are great geophytes! Best regards, David Victor From jshields104@insightbb.com Tue Sep 30 14:48:21 2003 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030930131233.026e8910@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Crinum graminicola seeds Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:22:49 -0500 I have a few seeds of Crinum graminicola available for sale. Contact me privately or see my web page at http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Seeds/CrinumSeeds.html if you are interested. Hand-pollinated in the greenhouse; the parental plants came from Greg Pettit in South Africa. I assume that Crinum graminicola is tender in cold climates. Jim Shields in central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP From msittner@mcn.org Tue Sep 30 17:28:25 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030930140759.00e086d0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Oxalis, Wiki, and Pelargonium Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:27:17 -0700 Dear David, Welcome to our list and thank you so much for your wonderful addition about Oxalis. It is indeed a very complicated subject, but I am sure all of those who are interested in Oxalis have learned a lot from what you have written. Mark McDonough who helps me with the wiki (which is a Hawaiian word meaning quick quick) had a discussion about whether we should create wiki pages for genera that had a few geophytes, but were mainly not geophytic. He thought people could be confused by including them and was inclined to say no. He used Pelargonium as an example. However it was too late as I had already put a picture of Pelargonium incrassatum on the wiki since I was thrilled when mine bloomed. My husband suggested a compromise that was simple but worked for both of us and I changed the wiki page name to Geophytic Pelargoniums. This page could include other sections besides Section Hoarea if they are also geophytes, but definitely is the place to put pictures of those plants. I very much hope you will add your pictures of the geophytic Pelargoniums you grow to that wiki page. And just for all the new members of our list since there are quite a few of you the wiki is like a pbs list web site and any member of this list is welcome to add pictures of the geophytes they grow or have seen in the wild to the wiki. We are not limited to the genera that are listed. New wiki pages can be created if you have something you want to add that is not represented. I have written a lot of instructions about how to do it and am always willing to help new users figure out how to participate. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Tue Sep 30 19:36:55 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030929204301.00d953c0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: IBSA Symposium 2003/Vist to South Africa TOW Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:35:28 -0700 Dear All, This year the South African winter rain fall area has been very dry. Right before the IBSA Symposium they had rain and snow and while we were there they continued to have a little rain and have had some since we returned. But in Namaqualand, the West Coast, and some of the areas where my husband and I saw flowers in abundance on our last trip there were few flowers this year. Reports were that bulbs in the areas with so little rainfall just sat the year out. We always worry when our bulbs do that so it is good to remember that it happens in the wild. This made it very difficult for the organizers of the Symposium who had planned to take us to see flowers in areas close to where we were staying as they just weren't blooming at the right time. I understand some have bloomed since. So they had to scramble to find places to take us. Two large buses were rented and the first day we traveled to Swellendam to a farm where we had permission to look for flowers. We spent a lot more time on the bus than anticipated but both days I was lucky to have interesting travel companions. The views out the window in spite of the drought looked very beautiful. There was snow on the mountains and there were swatches of color: green, yellow from farm lands. South Africa is a very beautiful country I think. The sun was out and once we arrived and started walking it felt warmer outside than it had in the previous two days. We got very excited as we found our first bulbs. One of the first was Laperiousa pyramidalis. We saw this one over and over again while we were there. We also saw Gladiolus carinatus, Moraea miniata and tripetala, Oxalis obtusa, Oxalis purpurea, a succulent Oxalis with purple flowers, a couple Romuleas, some nice orchids, a white Geissorhiza, etc. Rhoda McMaster helped my understand the difference between Geissorhiza and Hesperantha. In Hesperantha the style divides at the base of the flower or below and in Geissorhiza the style extends upward and divides higher up. After she clarified this we could at least say we were seeing Geissoriza sp. or Hesperantha sp. for all those white ones that sometimes had pink or brown markings on the back. I have in my notes we saw Moraea fergusoniae and Gladiolus permeabilis. Since those aren't species that I knew before it will be interesting to look at our pictures and see how well they fit with the descriptions. There was enough room for people to fan out and explore on their own. Some of the people I never saw once we got off the bus as they moved more quickly. A new friend I made from South Africa who doesn't grow bulbs was fascinated by the conversations about what we were seeing (since there wasn't always agreement.) People pointed out special finds. Some of the best flowers got photographed by a line of people, often lying in strange positions to get the best shot. I was pleased when Pat Victor went out of her way to back track to find me to show me a natural Oxalis "rock garden" overlooking the river. Those people who went the farthest came back exclaiming over a Gladiolus tristis they saw leaning over the cliff near the river. The following day we went to Hermanus. This was another long trip on the bus. Hermanus has whales and they were present. It also has the Fernkloof Nature Reserve and after we looked at ferns we drove there. Fernkloof has fynbos vegetation so we saw Proteas, Ericas, and Restios. We didn't see a lot of bulbs here, but did find one Gladiolus hirsutus that everyone photographed and a couple of other things. We had lovely walks through the preserve after lunch. On the way back to the Spa we stopped a number of times along the road when someone spotted flowers blooming and I think everyone appreciated that opportunity and while the bus drivers waited we jumped out of the bus to see what we could find. Both buses didn't stop at the same places so we saw different things. We found a field of Gladiolus abbreviatus. Since we weren't expecting a lot even this plant which I'd say is one of those kindly called, "collector's items" was exciting. Their were some pretty Romuleas and a Babiana that most people thought was purpurea. And of course there were Oxalis including some that had wonderful large leaves that reminded me of strawberries and were not blooming. And we saw our first Watsonias about the time I ran out of film. The light was really low by then I reassured myself and I probably wouldn't have gotten much of a picture. Luckily I saw Watsonias in bloom many times after that. The final day we went to the Worcester Botanical Garden. This wasn't such a long trip. A lot of people were leaving at noon so they decided rather than to rent buses to just pile into private cars. This is a dry area and the garden has a lot of succulents. We were lucky to be allowed to view the private bulb and succulent collections. There were a lot of Oxalis pots that attracted my attention. As I looked at them closely there were many different leaves in the same pot and I began to understand that we may be lucky ours don't reseed. I think sorting out all these pots (as there were a lot of them) would be quite a job. We were told they planned to plant many of them out in the garden. Since some of us have discovered except for the weedy ones Oxalis planted out in our gardens haven't done well, it will be interesting to hear how these do. There were other series of plastic pots, but the majority of the bulbs were planted in large concrete deep planters where the bulbs have a deep root run and where soil temperatures are very constant. The concrete is divided into sections with different species in each and they are numbered. I'm not sure I am explaining this very well so I posted two pictures to the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Karoo_bulb_containers.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Karoo_bulb_containers2.jpg The man who is in charge and who was talking to us said that the bulbs were really responding well to this new planting and were growing much better than in pots. This was especially true of the Amaryllids. You can see some nice leaves in the second picture. What they are finding however is that some of them are increasing so rapidly they need dividing. It didn't seem to me that with this design it would be especially easy to divide them or transplant them once planted. He thought ultimately they would be able to grow bulbs better there than at Kirstenbosch. They don't have so much rain so could control the moisture I'd expect. A lot of the South African delegates purchased plants here. They looked through the containers that were for sale and often found bonuses that they valued more than the plant they were purchasing in the same pot. My husband who loves to take pictures of signs found a picture of a Lachenalia that was for sale marked Cape Cows Lips. The Symposium ended after lunch. My husband and I, Patty Colville, and Lauw de Jager spent the afternoon exploring on our own with suggestions about where to go. We explored an area that had been burned first (always a good choice) and found more Moraeas, Albucas, more of that same Lapeirousia, and Lachenalia orchiodes (which we also saw repeatedly). We got our first practice climbing between the barb wired fences and trying to step carefully so we didn't end up with black streaks on our pants. We saw Moraea gawleri here which Bob and I saw often in shades of orange and yellow. At Tulbagh we found some beautiful red Babiana villosa near a cemetery. We found some pretty Romuleas and Lauw removed his shoes to wade in the water to get a better photo of Spiloxene aquatic. As we returned we found a small section of land where the roads crossed that we had been told about but missed on the way that had Lachenalias and Oxalis in bloom. The whole patch was solid flowers. This might have been Lachenalia longibracteata. The International delegates had become quite friendly and a number of us weren't quite ready to say goodbye so thirteen of us arranged to meet one more time for dinner in Worcester. For me the Symposium was a great success. I learned a lot, saw some interesting plants, but most of all I appreciated talking to fellow bulb enthusiasts. Thursday night was scheduled to be the farewell dinner and the local delegates were encouraged to attend and many of them did. At the dinner the noise level was very high. If you looked around the room you saw a lot of happy people very engaged in conversation. IBSA is considering sponsoring another Symposium in 2-4 years and I highly recommend this to anyone who is interested in South African bulbs. I'll continue to share throughout the week about our trip to South Africa and some of the talks, but won't some of the rest of you who are on this list who attended please say something! Shelley, Patty, Stefan, Audrey, Rhoda, Allan, Alan, Nico, Malcolm, Chris, Jim, Dawie please. Rachel is out seed collecting and Lauw has already written. Won't a few of you at least help me out here. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Tue Sep 30 21:05:46 2003 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20030930172847.00d3e350@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Ledbouria socialis Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:51:27 -0700 Dear All, Fred asked about where Ledbouria socialis was found and no one was able to help him so when I was in South Africa I tried to see if I could come up with an answer. Rod Saunders directed me to a book on Ledbouria and this is what it said. Ledbouria socialis is endemic to the Cape Province. Most of the known localities are in the Eastern Cape. It is found in fine to medium grained shallow to deep well drained humus rich sandy soil. (Now that's a mouthful.) It usually grows in shade mostly in closed evergreen woodland. A few populations occur in evergreen scrub forest. Most of the localities are in the veld type known as Valley Bushveld. Cameron McMaster described the habitat as dry valley bush veld. He said most of the ones he had seen were found around Grahamstown and Williamstown. He also mentioned the Keiskamma River Valley where the road to Port Alfred crosses the river. I haven't checked any maps for the spelling on these names so maybe if you have a map Fred you can look them up. I hope that this information is helpful. I think I have the book on veld types and could copy the section on Type 23 if this isn't enough. Mary Sue