From leo1010@attglobal.net Sat May 1 03:47:03 2004 Message-Id: <40932BB8.9010705@attglobal.net> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Info on relaxation of USDA import rules for seed Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 00:46:48 -0400 > We are proposing to amend the nursery stock regulations to allow the > importation of small lots of seed under an import permit with specific > conditions, as an alternative to the current phytosanitary certificate > requirement. Before you get all excited, go read the proposed regulations. The proposed "solution" is much worse than what we have now. Paying $50 per shipment for a phytosanitary certificate will look like a 1-pound chocolate bar compared to the new regime. Here is the list of matters before APHIS for comment: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppd/rad/webrepor/ppq.html And here is the link to the text of the full discussion: (READ THE WHOLE THING) http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=2004_register&docid=fr29ap04-10 Leo -- Leo A. Martin Phoenix, Arizona, USA Like cactus and succulents? Central Arizona Cactus and Succulent Society http://www.centralarizonacactus.org From voltaire@islandnet.com Sat May 1 00:54:13 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Anemone nemorosa pictures Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 21:54:10 -0700 I decided to do a Google Images search to see if I could find any pictures of an anemone similar to my new one. I looked at 444 pictures, many of the plain white wild form, lots of Vestal, and occasional blues. Only one Bracteata, but a couple of interesting ones that I haven't seen before. Sylvia from Finland has three pictures of Pink Delight in her Galleria. It is like a medium pink Vestal. Christine Skelmersdale, Owner of Broadleigh Gardens, grows a double white with a blue-purple eye. That is the one that should be named "Blue Eyes" instead of the non-descript one I bought. Hannelotte Kindlund has a page full of nemorosa pictures - Pink Delight here is very pale, and Monstrosa 2 is what I call Bracteata. There are also a couple of green-centred doubles, one called Green Fingers. None like mine, though. I will transplant it to its own space and see if it looks the same next year. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sat May 1 10:00:09 2004 Message-Id: <45.abbe52c.2dc5075b@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Drummon Rain Lily Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 09:59:55 EDT Hi, I've got lost of I think my application for IBS fell through the cracks, and I don't get the exchange notes. But, it doesn't seem to matter, members of this group seem extraordinarily happy to pass on seeds and starts. I'm sort of limiting myself now to some amaryllids of interest and find that I have a zillion pots of seeds already going from such email garden friends. Meanwhile, it is the time for my Zephyranthes drummondii to be bloom (first rains in warm weather).  I have new seed and will continue to get some for the next week or two.  Perhaps I will have 500 seeds this next week or two, which will make a lot of packets at 25-30 seeds each. These guys germinate easily and grow well in warm weather. Just write to me this month and let me know, but the main criterion for getting seeds from me is to send your SASE soon--first come is first served till the seeds run out (use 2 regular stamps on return envelope). Some call it Zephyranthes drummondii, Cooperia drummondii, or C. pedunculata, and some confuse it with Z. chlorosolen (which is delightful plant, but makes a smaller flower). No doubt there is a correct name or two (ISBN correct) out there somewhere. Yet, such a correct name won't sway me. I'll always call it Z. drummondii, it is a popular native plant that tolerates truly crappy conditions as long as it has poor to adequate drainage. LINK: Drummond Rain Lily http://nasa.utep.edu/chih/gardens/plants/coopdrum.htm SEND SASE TO (2 stamps on return envelope): Joe Shaw 16096 Lone Star Ranch Drive Conroe, TX 77302 Cordially, Joe 2 inches of rain last night, and surely will be another inch or two today. Nights are staying near 70 F, and days are not yet "summer hot." From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Sat May 1 11:04:53 2004 Message-Id: <001001c42f8d$a4c33fd0$c0cef7a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Info on relaxation of USDA import rules for seed Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 08:04:45 -0700 Hi Leo: I can't make this link work. Any suggestions? Diana > > > And here is the link to the text of the full discussion: (READ THE WHOLE > THING) > http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=2004_register&docid=fr29ap04-10 > > From vikingdoc@earthlink.net Sat May 1 11:21:07 2004 Message-Id: <410-22004561152128510@earthlink.net> From: "Kathy Stokmanis" Subject: TOW: Blooms in my garden Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 08:21:28 -0700 As Mary Sue said, it has been an unusual year, with temperatures 20+ degrees above normal in early spring, alternating with cool, wet spells, then more record breaking heat. Many blooms were fleeting. In contrast, Dichelostemma ida-maia, currently in bloom, has been coming on for at least a month and probably will last for another month. I love the bizarre flowers. Bletilla striata, Babiana, Nectaroscordum siculum, Daylilies, Allium 'Nancy Ball', Allium garlic chives, Eucrosia (just obtained), are at their peak. My clone of Bletilla striata alba doesn't bloom until later but there is a local clone currently in bloom that I am determined to obtain. I want the pink and white in bloom together. Tall Bearded Iris has just finished up, as have the Dutch Irises and Clivia miniata. Calochortus venustus will be in bloom next week, with some trumpet lilies. Allium spaerocephalum is almost in bloom. The Dogwood blossoms were fleeting this year, unfortunate because it is one of my favorite flowering trees. Clematis, roses and many others are in full bloom. Kathy in Northern California, Sierra foothills, where the temperature, though still a little high, is close to 'normal'. Rain is unlikely for the next six months and the 100+ summer heat is not far off. From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sat May 1 12:48:56 2004 Message-Id: <87.ac4813d.2dc52ef4@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: USDA (part rant)Hi Gang, I would like to know more about what the potential Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 12:48:52 EDT Hi Gang, I would like to know more about what the potential problems are for the new regulations. As near as I can tell, USDA will require an import permit, rather than a phytosanitary permit. But, I could be getting the information scrambled. When you read about the import permit, and the info they as for, it all seems hopelessly confusing (see below my closing). However, I have such a permit and it was an easy thing to get, and was free. For "approximate quantity and kinds" I put down "small seed amounts (less than 200) of flowering plants, including palms, bulbs, succulents, shrubs and ornamentals. USDA accepted this. They sort of filled it in again and put, except for noxious weeds and specifically excluded species. Then they provided a pamphlet of things that you cannot import under any circumstances. For "U.S. port of Entry," I put down, Houston, NY City, Miami, and other appropriate international airports and ports. That was fine with the USDA. For other categories I put similarly broad statements, and for "expected date of arrival" I put "variable, seasonal, depending upon availability." Is it a pain in the butt for USDA to be issuing regulations and being silly? Yes! Was it easy enough to get a very broad permit, valid for 5 years, for free? I think the USDA is nuts, and bent on trying to regulate whatever it can, so that it can increase in scope and power (like most federal agencies). I've seen some earlier regulations from the 80s that were hopelessly without (in my opinion) scientific merit. USDA continues to impose some disease quarantines that the American Phytopathological Society deems silly, detrimental, and useless for the containment of certain diseases. So, do not count me in as a supporter of USDA-APHIS. Of course, I have friends and colleagues working in USDA-APHIS, and all are reasonable people, and not monsters. They are just doing their jobs, and the really silly decisions are made by top-level people who must have backgrounds in "how to increase paperwork and annoy citizens, while at the same time creating a mess." But, in my experience dealing with USDA-APHIS, it seems that there is nothing you can do about it except play their game. The new regulations seem designed to allow in small amounts of seed for hobbyists, and small growers, while still allowing big brother to keep track of who is importing. Sorry, to rant so much. If I have the new USDA regulations pegged incorrectly, please give me the scoop--I'm hoping the permits are free and filled out "easily enough" as before. Joe ----------------------------------------------- The completed permit application must contain the following information: (1) Name, address, and telephone number of the importer; (2) approximate quantity and kinds (botanical designations) of articles intended to be imported; (3) country or locality where grown; (4) intended U.S. port of entry; (5) means of transportation, e.g., mail, airmail, express, air express, freight, airfreight, or baggage; and (6) expected date of arrival. The PPQ program of APHIS will review the application and will then decide whether to issue a permit and the applicable conditions for importation. Permits would be issued at the discretion of APHIS only to residents of the United States, whether an individual or an organization. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- From doji@interpac.net Sat May 1 13:54:02 2004 Message-Id: <003001c42fa5$3fab0b60$3604f804@DJL1SV31> From: "G. D. M." Subject: APHIS site Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 07:53:42 -1000 Hi Diana and all on this list, Try: http://www.regulations.gov/freddocs/04-09716.htm That is the document in question. I would like to know what Leo Martin found objectionable. I do not want to miss anything in my comments. I find that the individual marking of each packet in a shipment (in one box) ridiculous. They could be numbered and listed on the permit itself as is now required. It sounds like this was written by bean counters, not bean growers. I have chased all of the references in the above main proposal and will post the addresses if you would like. Gary From c-mueller@tamu.edu Sat May 1 14:25:11 2004 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: USDA (part rant)Hi Gang,I would like to know more about what the potential Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 13:24:52 -0500 Conroe Joe wrote: >>> ConroeJoe@aol.com 5/1/04 11:48:52 AM >>> "Hi Gang, I would like to know more about what the potential problems are for the new regulations. As near as I can tell, USDA will require an import permit, rather than a phytosanitary permit. But, I could be getting the information scrambled." etc. etc. Conroe Joe: Thanks for getting us this far thru the maze that is the import permit. Can you tell us, finally, to whom do we apply to get the form? Then, with your suggestions, I might actually get an import permit. Thanks so much, Cynthia W. Mueller College Station, TX From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat May 1 14:50:24 2004 Message-Id: <4093F16E.2050601@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Lachenalia Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 14:50:22 -0400 Tsuh: The boophone should be coming into growth about now. Give it as much light as you can manage. For your information the seeds came from Silver Hill three years ago. Arnold From leo1010@attglobal.net Sat May 1 18:13:35 2004 Message-Id: <4093F6D0.4050402@attglobal.net> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Info on relaxation of USDA import rules for seed Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 15:13:20 -0400 Diana Chapman wrote > Hi Leo: I can't make this link work. Any suggestions? Diana > > And here is the link to the text of the full discussion: (READ THE WHOLE >> THING) http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=2004_register&docid=fr29ap04-10 It works for me, even clicking on the quoted line in your E-mail. I got there from here: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppd/rad/webrepor/ppq.html Currently, the top item on the above page is *** Importation of Small Lots of Seed Without Phytosanitary Certificates Docket Number 02-119-1 Proposed rule 7 CFR Part 319 Published April 29, 2004 69 FR 23451 Text | PDF *** Click on Text to get the second link I posted. Leo -- Leo A. Martin Phoenix, Arizona, USA Like cactus and succulents? Central Arizona Cactus and Succulent Society http://www.centralarizonacactus.org From piabinha@yahoo.com Sat May 1 17:43:01 2004 Message-Id: <20040501214230.72549.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Lachenalia Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 14:42:30 -0700 (PDT) it's actually been growing since last fall. thanks. tsuh yang --- Arnold Trachtenberg wrote: > Tsuh: > > The boophone should be coming into growth about now. > Give it as much > light as you can manage. For your information the > seeds came from > Silver Hill three years ago. > > Arnold > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From samclan@redshift.com Sun May 2 00:27:49 2004 Message-Id: <40947955.7000505@redshift.com> From: Shirley Meneice Subject: Info on relaxation of USDA import rules for seed Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 21:30:13 -0700 I'm in complete agreement with Diana. All I get is an outline of what is in the full "discussion". The further link sent to her, got me nothing more. Shirley Meneice diana chapman wrote: >Hi Leo: > >I can't make this link work. Any suggestions? > >Diana > > >>And here is the link to the text of the full discussion: (READ THE WHOLE >>THING) >> >> >> >http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=2004_register&docid=fr29ap04-10 > > >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > From msittner@mcn.org Sun May 2 01:37:53 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040501222417.01946920@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Info on relaxation of USDA import rules for seed Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 22:36:34 -0700 Dear All, After reading through all of this it sounds like a different permit would be required for each shipment of seed. So if say one of the members of this list in another country wanted to send seed to one of us in the United States we would have to ask for a permit for that seed by name and include where it was coming from. If the permit were granted it would be sent to the person along with labels for where to send the seed and then the seed would be sent there to be inspected and if o.k. it would then be sent on to the recipient. Is that the way everyone else interprets this? There would be extra cost for postage to ask for the permit, to send the permit on to the exporter if granted and then to pay for the seed to go for inspection and then back to you. It sounds like for a seed exchange the person receiving the seed would have to know ahead of time what it would be in order to request the permit for each donor and a bit of a nightmare to do all the paper work. Is this what Leo means by thinking the new system might be worse than the old one? Mary Sue From dells@voicenet.com Sun May 2 09:51:18 2004 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Message forwarded from Hamish Sloan Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 09:52:15 -0400 You might like to put onto the PBS list a note that the May issue of "The Garden" (RHS journal) has a photo and short note about Ipheion 'Alberto Castillo'. Says something about flowers larger than the type and standing up straight and taller than other varieties/species. (Writing from memory here as I left the journal at home.) Let us take this as a good omen that Alberto will be back on his feet, standing tall and larger than life, in due course! From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sun May 2 14:18:12 2004 Message-Id: <128.40608f25.2dc6955c@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: USDA Import Permits, caveat and assumptions Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 14:18:04 EDT Hi all, I'll send an email to follow, how I got the permit and what I did, etc. My assumptions are that the new rules are essentially the same, except that the requirement for a Phytosanitary Certificate has been dropped for importing small amounts of seed. This forum has a lot of smart members with sharp eyes; if I have misunderstood the proposed rule changes please let me know where I have gone wrong. It would not be unusual to misunderstand USDA rules. Regulatory agencies have no obligation to make sense or to make it easy on us. Some USDA rules I have seen are nearly impossible for me to understand. USDA rules and regulations are sometimes written with liberal use of impenetrable verbiage, and they are so cryptic they could probably put lawyers into comas. But, for now, my assumption is that there are presently two (2) requirements for importing and that the rule changes are dispensing with one (1) of the requirements for importing small amounts of seeds, or a few bare root plants. I interpret the new rules to mean that the costly part (Phytosanitary Certificate from the sender) is being waived for hobbyists. Cordially, Joe Drying out in Conroe, TX, we got over 6 inches of rain according to my home made rain gauge--almost 4.5 inches of rain according to the nearest airport. I really do have mosquito fish swimming over my lawn that is covered with water. From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sun May 2 14:20:17 2004 Message-Id: <1e1.1f5dce55.2dc695da@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: How I got a USDA Import Permit Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 14:20:10 EDT Hi, 1. I filled out PPQ form 587. This form is for plants and plant parts that come without soil. So, it is mostly about seeds and bare root plants. The Web page is: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppq/permits/plantproducts/nursery.html . You can click on the link for "PPQ Form 587," which is right under "1. How to Apply." There is no fee; my permit was issued in 2-3 weeks. 2. There is an FAQ, as well as other types of info links. For instance, if you click on "Importation of Bulbs," you will find that you don't need a permit for bulbs (generally speaking). However, bulbs must arrive free of soil and not looking diseased, etc. Oddly, I think you need an Import Permit for bulb seeds. 3. There is a list of prohibited items that you can read about. Mostly, such items are hosts for diseases of great agricultural importance, and you can't import such plants from certain locations known to have the disease. Thus, my current list says I can't import junipers from Europe, but that leaves me free to import them from Japan or Canada, etc. Other prohibited items are considered noxious weeds, things that kill waterways, or that invade farmlands aggressively, etc. Don't even bother trying to import something on the noxious weed list-exceptions are very few and you'll never get an exception for a home garden. 4. You can send an email to USDA for help in filling out the form. But, my opinion is that the less you have to do with them the better. Just fill the form out as best you can. I put down the types of things that I thought I would import, a list of families, species, and garden names. I just put them down line by line and filled in about 6-8 lines. I put several lines like: A. bulb species from several families including Amaryllidaceae, Alliaceae) B. palm seeds of multiple species C. seeds of permitted shrubs and ornamentals, including properly exported African succulents D. hobby type bulbs, garden grown (I guess this was not needed) E. permitted grasses and sedges for garden purposes For the ports, I something like the following: NY, NY and Linden NJ, Orlando FL Houston Other appropriate ports Most deliveries will be small items of a few seeds delivered via the mail 5. As I understand the situation, the USDA is not really enforcing the Import Permit and Phytosanitary Certificate requirements right now. This seems to be due to the several reasons: 1) not too many people pay attention to current rules, 2) import volumes are too large to police, and 3) gardeners have political clout (I wonder how many rich people and political donors complained they had trouble getting palm seeds, etc.). So, the new approach (the proposed approach) seems to be designed to increase compliance (encourage people to get an Import Permit) because: A. You won't need a Phytosanitary Certificate from the seed supplier (for small amounts), and B. The Import Permit is easy enough to get. Thus, by dispensing with the Phytosanitary Certificate the USDA is hoping to get better compliance (from hobbyists). The rationale seems to be that the USDA wants to know who is importing, so that if a problem ever does happen (massive new disease problem in Tulips), they can contact hobbyists and talk to them. It is all Big Brother to me, and I really don't think they need to know that much about me. Yet, what can you do, if you flout the Import Permit requirement some suppliers may not send to you, or you might run a very small chance of getting a big fine someday. Of course, I'm not really sure about the "what and why" of USDA thinking; my musings are guesses. Cordially, C.J. From ggroiti@mail.agro.uba.ar Sun May 2 16:40:58 2004 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20040502173943.01d802d0@pop3.agro.uba.ar> From: German Roitman Subject: Alberto Castillo Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 17:40:58 -0300 Hi All: Alberto is back from hospital, and he is recovering very good, he will be back in the forum very soon. Best wishes Germán From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon May 3 01:19:09 2004 Message-Id: <000101c430ce$27f4fe20$b86d2bd9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Iris ID please Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 23:48:58 +0100 hi all I have an Iris which needs to be identified. I have uploaded a photo on to the Scottish Rock web site http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/2305.html?1083537803 Below the image is a decription of the overall size and scent. I dont know where it came from and dont remember buying it or being given it. I would also like to know where to grow this lovely Iris. thanks Mark N Ireland From roberth6@mac.com Mon May 3 02:10:19 2004 Message-Id: <04866C3C-9CC8-11D8-9108-000A95EC1BAA@mac.com> From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Iris ID please Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 16:06:29 +1000 Hi Mark, There are no size details that I can see. If its a tiny thing then my bet would be Iris attica . Cheers, Rob in Tasmania From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Mon May 3 09:45:07 2004 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476B976B4@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Leucojum/Acis autumnale and Lewisia Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 08:45:16 -0500 Hi Barbara: We've had Leucojum autumnalis (or Acis) in our Rock Garden for a couple of years. The winter of year before last was colder than average with no snow cover. This last winter has also been colder than average but we kept around 4" of snow from January 1 through the first week of March. Spring did not arrive until mid-April. The Leucojum autumnalis flowered very well last fall and foliage is up and looking perky this spring. Overnight low was 28 degrees F at the Chicago Botanic Garden (closer to Lake Michigan than the Tankersley household in Grayslake). Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Weintraub [mailto:blweintraub1@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 8:02 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Re: Leucojum/Acis autumnale and Lewisia Hi All, Jane writes: >In other words, USDA Zone 5 (average winter lows down to minus 20 F) is >not a likely garden home for any them, but if snow cover is VERY reliable, >you might try L. autumnale, which is very cheap to buy. I have just planted L. autumnale for the first time in hopes that the little clump of seedlings will build up enough energy to flower and then make it through the winter with protection. I have found that some plants that are commonly expected to die in our climate, don't, and that some that are expected to thrive, don't. Thus, I've become more of an experimental gardener over time. I'll let you know in a year how this species does. From mark@marksgardenplants.com Mon May 3 14:04:08 2004 Message-Id: <000f01c43139$0ba731a0$fa6a2bd9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Iris ID please Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 19:04:14 +0100 hi all Here is a description of my Iris. The Iris has only one flower measuring 4cmx4cm / 1"x1". The scent is cool and fresh with a slight scent similar to Dianthus and night scented pelargoniums. The flowering stem is 11.5cm / 4". The plant is in a 4" square pot and has one main rhizome and 4 off it. Mark N Ireland From hkoopowi@uci.edu Mon May 3 15:28:50 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.2.20040503122811.015f9198@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Info on relaxation of USDA import rules for seed Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 12:28:41 -0700 I just read it and yes, the cure is worse than the disease. Harold At 03:13 PM 5/1/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Diana Chapman wrote > > > Hi Leo: I can't make this link work. Any suggestions? Diana > > > > And here is the link to the text of the full discussion: (READ THE WHOLE > >> THING) > >http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=2004_register&docid=fr29ap04-10 > >It works for me, even clicking on the quoted line in your E-mail. > >I got there from here: > >http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppd/rad/webrepor/ppq.html > >Currently, the top item on the above page is > >*** >Importation of Small Lots of Seed Without Phytosanitary Certificates > >Docket Number 02-119-1 > >Proposed rule > >7 CFR Part 319 > >Published April 29, 2004 > >69 FR 23451 > >Text | PDF >*** > >Click on Text to get the second link I posted. > >Leo > -- >Leo A. Martin >Phoenix, Arizona, USA > >Like cactus and succulents? >Central Arizona Cactus and Succulent Society >http://www.centralarizonacactus.org >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From mail@odysseybulbs.com Mon May 3 18:05:30 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20040503172402.02b183e0@pop.earthlink.net> From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Info on relaxation of USDA import rules for seed Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 18:15:55 -0400 Except for the limits on the number of seeds per packet and the number of packets per shipment, the proposed regulations sound very much like the ones already in place for importation of seeds of woody plants. The rules require such seed to be imported through one of the designated APHIS stations. My Royal Horticultural Society shipment always includes some seeds of woody plants and always enters through New York APHIS, and although USDA is slower than I would like in inspecting the seeds and relaying them to me I have otherwise had no problems. As Joe said, you only need to give general information on the import permit -- such as some of the genera that you're likely to import and the countries you're most likely to import them from. A few weeks later you receive your permit (good for 5 years) and a supply of yellow and green labels to be sent to suppliers, along with a copy of your permit. If you run out of labels USDA will send more. It appears to me that these new rules would in many cases be a significant improvement over the current ones. Some provision needs to be made for importing genera such as Hypericum that tend to have very fine seeds, and the labeling requirements (if taken literally) seem too fussy, but in general these rules will make it much easier and less costly for entities such as the Royal Horticultural Society to send seed to the U.S. In short, far better and less burdensome to be required to obtain a permit -- good for 5 years -- to import small quantities of seeds than to be required to obtain a phyto certificate for each importation. Russell At 10:36 PM 5/1/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Dear All, > >After reading through all of this it sounds like a different permit would >be required for each shipment of seed. So if say one of the members of >this list in another country wanted to send seed to one of us in the >United States we would have to ask for a permit for that seed by name and >include where it was coming from. If the permit were granted it would be >sent to the person along with labels for where to send the seed and then >the seed would be sent there to be inspected and if o.k. it would then be >sent on to the recipient. Is that the way everyone else interprets this? >There would be extra cost for postage to ask for the permit, to send the >permit on to the exporter if granted and then to pay for the seed to go >for inspection and then back to you. It sounds like for a seed exchange >the person receiving the seed would have to know ahead of time what it >would be in order to request the permit for each donor and a bit of a >nightmare to do all the paper work. Is this what Leo means by thinking the >new system might be worse than the old one? > >Mary Sue Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs 8984 Meadow Lane, Berrien Springs, Michigan 49103 269-471-4642 www.odysseybulbs.com From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon May 3 18:32:42 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: TOW N.H.Do in May - Garden Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 15:32:40 -0700 In general, but particularly for Pacific Northwest North America and Western Europe - DEADHEAD Snap off the dead flowers of any bulbs you don't want to set seed. The stems of tulips and daffodils photosynthesize and therefore do their bit towards next year, but if you need to maintain a show garden, you can cut off the stems near the base, or even dig up tulips and replant them out back so they can finish their yearly cycle out of view. CATCH the seeds of early flowering bulbs by enclosing the pod in a little bit of nylon stocking. Snowdrops and fall-blooming crocus will be ripe soon. If you tied the snowdrop pods to skewers last month, they will be easily seen. If you didn't, visualize how tall the flower was, and search around the plants at an equivalent distance to find the pod where it fell over. Crocus seedpods are down at ground level, or a bit below if you've mulched. Anemone nemorosa and kin, (and also the non-bulb Hepatica) produce naked seeds on the outside of the receptacle. A piece of nylon stocking will catch these when they fall, and they should be sown soon after falling. If you are not going to be giving the seeds to someone else, you might as well let the seeds drop and germinate around the mother plant, and then move the seedlings later. FERTILIZE Fertilize any bulbs that still have green leaves with something like 6-10-10 as they are storing nutrients for next year. Crocus and other corms must replace the corm each year. SEPARATE crowded clumps of spring bulbs when the leaves have died, and you can still see where they are. Dig them up with a fork and gently pull them apart, then space them out in soil you've amended with compost. You can also store them dry for the summer, something I have no experience of. PLANT Dahlias, callas, crocosmia and cannas can be planted out. Dahlias will flower prodigiously till frost, but other summer bulbs that flower only once, like gladiolus and tigridias can be planted several times for a succession of flowers. From john@johnlonsdale.net Mon May 3 21:19:00 2004 Message-Id: <20040504011900.1D9D420047@happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: Leucojum/Acis autumnale and Lewisia Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 21:20:58 -0400 < We've had Leucojum autumnalis (or Acis) in our Rock Garden for a couple of years. The winter of year before last was colder than average with no snow cover. This last winter has also been colder than average but we kept around 4" of snow from January 1 through the first week of March. Spring did not arrive until mid-April. The Leucojum autumnalis flowered very well last fall and foliage is up and looking perky this spring.> Boyce, I'm intrigued by your comments above, implying that your Leucojum autumnale flowered in the fall but didn't leaf out until this spring. Wherever I've grown this plant, in several dubiously distinct forms, it has always leafed out a matter of a few days to a couple of weeks after flowering, never the following spring. I grow them as pot subjects now, in the garden here they flowered fine but the leaves were quickly trashed by ice, snow and repeated freeze-thaws. By spring there was nothing left above ground, and, in a raised bed, precious little below ground! J. Dr John T Lonsdale, 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From dkramb@badbear.com Mon May 3 22:03:21 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20040503220058.01af0c98@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Iris ID please Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 22:03:21 -0400 At 06:48 PM 5/2/2004, you wrote: >hi all > >I have an Iris which needs to be identified. I have uploaded a photo on to >the Scottish Rock web site >http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/2305.html?1083537803 Below the >image is a decription of the overall size and scent. I dont know where it >came from and dont remember buying it or being given it. I would also like >to know where to grow this lovely Iris. > >thanks > >Mark >N Ireland Is this a garden hybrid, or a species iris? If it's a species, my best guess is Iris schactii. You can view a photo for comparison at http://www.badbear.com/signa/display-photo.pl?Iris-schachtii+3+1 It might also be Iris attica. http://www.badbear.com/signa/display-photo.pl?Iris-attica+5+5 Dennis in Cincinnati, Ohio, USA From leo1010@attglobal.net Tue May 4 01:18:04 2004 Message-Id: <4096FD4E.6030604@attglobal.net> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Info on relaxation of USDA import rules for seed Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 22:17:50 -0400 Some people haven't been able to get to the links. Start at the APHIS Regulatory Analysis and Development home page http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppd/rad/ In the left menu column, in tiny print, look for RAD Links. Under this see Recent Publications. Click there to go to this page: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppd/rad/webrepor.html Right in front of you in the white section is Plant Protection and Quarantine. Click there to go to this page: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppd/rad/webrepor/ppq.html The first item as of now is Importation of Small Lots of Seed Without Phytosanitary Certificates Below it are links for getting the information as text or as a PDF. > I would like to know more about what the potential problems are for the new > regulations. As near as I can tell, USDA will require an import permit, rather > than a phytosanitary permit. But, I could be getting the information > scrambled. > I would like to know what Leo Martin found objectionable. Shipments with phytosanitary certificates would still be permitted entry. The current method would still be legal and available if a phytosanitary certificate can be issued by the shipper's agricultural department. This proposed system would be another method for importing seed. It would permit importing seed in small quantities without a phytosanitary certificate, but still maintaining compliance with import quarantine goals. A separate permit for each proposed shipment would have to be obtained in advance from APHIS. The permit would specify exactly which seeds would be in the shipment. The proposed system would allow each shipment to contain up to 50 packets of different species, of up to 50 seeds in each packet. Each packet would have to be labeled. The shipment would have to go to one of a few specific ports of entry for APHIS inspection. The seeds would be inspected. If the seeds passed inspection they would be sent along. This system will be more expensive and cumbersome and slower than the current system. I think what we hobbyists had desired all along was an exemption from the phytosanitary certification process so we wouldn't have to pay $50 per shipment. It seems APHIS is not interested in fulfilling this desire. > It sounds like for a seed exchange the person > receiving the seed would have to know ahead of time what it would be in > order to request the permit for each donor and a bit of a nightmare > to do all the paper work. Is this what Leo means by thinking the new system > might be worse than the old one? Yes. Just think about what would happen with exchange of seed that must be planted immediately, such as some amaryllids, or seed of aquatic plants. The regulations specify seeds must be in a gas-permeable container, which means a container that could dry out. And - have any of you seen how big orchid seeds are? Think you would be able to see 50? Or how about Lithops seed? Seed exchanges will be facing an interesting situation. Should they have somebody in Europe receive all the seed, and send to the US in one larger packet, the way Rachel now does from Silverhill? Leo -- Leo A. Martin Phoenix, Arizona, USA Like cactus and succulents? Central Arizona Cactus and Succulent Society http://www.centralarizonacactus.org From totototo@pacificcoast.net Fri Apr 30 21:16:17 2004 Message-Id: <200405010116.i411GAll013267@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Leucojum Hardiness, was New to Group Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 18:19:07 -800 On 30 Apr 04 at 10:52, Lee & Scott Gerow wrote: > Has anyone on this list been able to grow the Leucojums below. > I believe they are listed as zone 7. > I live in zone 5a/b and have a small micro climate provided by > the escarpment and the woods and water as a modifying factor. > Would appreciate any input please. > Leucojum autumnale > Leucojum autumnale var. oporanthum > Leucojum autumnale var. pulchellum > Leucojum nicaeense > Leucojum roseum Of these, L. roseum is the most tender and will not survive very long out of doors here. Even L. tingitanum from North Africa is hardier. If you want to grow L. roseum out of doors, you need to move to California. L. nicaeense is on the tender side, but in a sheltered site with good drainage, has survived for years here. L. autumnale and its forms (not very distinct in my experience) are quite hardy here. However, with its fall-emergent foliage, I suspect it would not do well in a seriously cold winter climate. Still, seed is easy to come by and easy to germinate, so it's worth a gamble. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From JFlintoff@aol.com Tue May 4 00:04:51 2004 Message-Id: <198.28ff49ca.2dc87047@aol.com> From: JFlintoff@aol.com Subject: {Pbs}: Iris ID please Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 00:04:23 EDT Mark Looks to me like Iris suaveolens ( mellita ) . As both Latin names imply, it is sweet-scented. Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washington,USA Zone 8 From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Tue May 4 06:06:23 2004 Message-Id: <005601c431bf$6d003060$6ad0403e@John> From: Subject: TOW N.H.Do in May - Garden Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 09:28:39 +0100 Diane Whitehead wrote: > DEADHEAD > Snap off the dead flowers of any bulbs you don't want to set seed. >> I've never understood the urge to deadhead bulbs except where obvious tidiness is required (in formal garden settings) or where seeding is a positive menace (e.g. some Allium, some Muscari, some Scilla/Hyacinthoides). The majority of commercial bulbs are really or effectively sterile in the garden, so removing spent flowers is merely a quest for tidiness: I have more useful things to do. If seed is set I can see no earthly reason for not allowing it to mature. Even if there is no friend or society to donate it to, then a scattering in the garden may just produce results worth having. Even more tangibly, the presence on the stem of a fruit is an incentive, controlled by hormones, for the plant to remain in growth and therefore build up a much bigger bulb for next year. The 'drain' of photosynthates to the seeds is more than matched by their accumulation in the bulb and the resultant performance next season. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Gardens Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk > From mail@odysseybulbs.com Tue May 4 07:40:45 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20040504072330.025f3d70@pop.earthlink.net> From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Info on relaxation of USDA import rules for seed Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 07:52:32 -0400 The notion that you will have to apply for a separate specific permit for each importation is totally unfounded. The import permits (PPQ Form 597) to which the proposal refers are good for 5 years, and when you apply for one all you have to do is give a general indication of what you will be importing and from where. I have my permit before me, and it gives me permission to import "admissible nursery stock, plants, and roots not subject to postentry quarantine" and "seeds of trees and shrubs and also seeds covered in part 319-37-6". If the proposed rule were implemented, the permit would also allow me to import small quantities of seed without a phytosanitary certificate. As to country of origin, all that is specified is "Various Approved Countries". I've received numerous shipments via APHIS New York under this permitting system and have had few problems. In general it is much less expensive and less burdensome than the phytosanitary certification process. Russell At 10:17 PM 5/3/2004 -0400, Leo wrote: >A separate permit for each proposed shipment would have to be obtained >in advance from APHIS. The permit would specify exactly which seeds >would be in the shipment. Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs 8984 Meadow Lane, Berrien Springs, Michigan 49103 269-471-4642 www.odysseybulbs.com From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Tue May 4 07:24:35 2004 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: TOW N.H.Do in May - Garden Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 08:24:31 -0400 Dear John: Really? Are there studies on this? I am sure that I am not the only one here that has been deadheading their bulbs faithfully each season, simply because it is part of the the accepted lore and advice that has been passed on as gospel for generations. As an intrinsically lazy gardener, I am more than interested in this statement. I have been told (and please correct this if necessary) that most annual and dormancy prone plants, in general, consider their job done after flowering. Rand Nicholson > >I've never understood the urge to deadhead bulbs except where obvious >tidiness is required (snip) > Even more tangibly, the >presence on the stem of a fruit is an incentive, controlled by hormones, for >the plant to remain in growth and therefore build up a much bigger bulb for >next year. The 'drain' of photosynthates to the seeds is more than matched >by their accumulation in the bulb and the resultant performance next season. > >John Grimshaw -- Rand Nicholson Zone 5b Eastern Maritime Canada From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Tue May 4 09:20:06 2004 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476D33EF5@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Leucojum/Acis autumnale and Lewisia Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 08:20:13 -0500 Hi John: Yes, they leafed out right after flowering. Then winter hit and whatever foliage was above ground got hit pretty hard. After temps warmed up (relatively - we went to 28 degrees F on Monday morning)the foliage started to appear again. I am hoping the bulbs made enough growth last fall to be able to put forth some foliage this spring in an effort to survive the rigors of our climate. Time will tell, but initial results are encouraging. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: John Lonsdale [mailto:john@johnlonsdale.net] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 8:21 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: RE: [pbs] Re: Leucojum/Acis autumnale and Lewisia < We've had Leucojum autumnalis (or Acis) in our Rock Garden for a couple of years. The winter of year before last was colder than average with no snow cover. This last winter has also been colder than average but we kept around 4" of snow from January 1 through the first week of March. Spring did not arrive until mid-April. The Leucojum autumnalis flowered very well last fall and foliage is up and looking perky this spring.> Boyce, I'm intrigued by your comments above, implying that your Leucojum autumnale flowered in the fall but didn't leaf out until this spring. Wherever I've grown this plant, in several dubiously distinct forms, it has always leafed out a matter of a few days to a couple of weeks after flowering, never the following spring. I grow them as pot subjects now, in the garden here they flowered fine but the leaves were quickly trashed by ice, snow and repeated freeze-thaws. By spring there was nothing left above ground, and, in a raised bed, precious little below ground! J. Dr John T Lonsdale, 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Tue May 4 13:33:57 2004 Message-Id: <005901c431fd$f9a16f50$aee8403e@John> From: Subject: TOW N.H.Do in May - Garden Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 17:37:02 +0100 I cannot cite a publication on the benefits of leaving bulbs to seed, but empirical testing and observation will bear it out. A private correspondent calls deadheading an old wives' story, and to my mind it is what I call a 'Gardener's Boy' job, invented by head gardeners to keep idle hands busy, but not strictly necessary. I should have said that in commercial cultivation of, e.g. tulips, the flowers are removed promptly to stimulate the plant to complete growth and die back quickly, so that the bulbs can be lifted, graded, packed etc in time to be on sale in early autumn. No doubt a larger bulb could be achieved by a more leisurely approach and letting the flower fall naturally, etc, but this could add a couple of commercially-unaffordable weeks to the cycle. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Gardens Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rand Nicholson" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] TOW N.H.Do in May - Garden > Dear John: > > Really? Are there studies on this? I am sure that I am not the only one here that has been deadheading their bulbs faithfully each season, simply because it is part of the the accepted lore and advice that has been passed on as gospel for generations. As an intrinsically lazy gardener, I am more than interested in this statement. I have been told (and please correct this if necessary) that most annual and dormancy prone plants, in general, consider their job done after flowering. > > Rand Nicholson > > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue May 4 17:17:29 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Old Wives Tales Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 13:26:59 -0500 >I cannot cite a publication on the benefits of leaving bulbs to seed, but >empirical testing and observation will bear it out. A private correspondent >calls deadheading an old wives' story, and to my mind it is what I call a >'Gardener's Boy' job, invented by head gardeners to keep idle hands busy, >but not strictly necessary. Dear all; I tend to agree with John about some long time practices which do not make ecological or biological sense. People here still braid daffodil foliage weeks before they are ready to go dormant, mow herbaceous peony foliage when it isn't attractive and cut iris fans down to stubs in July. Even as foliage on all these go dormant they are still processing sugars back into the roots and even ragged foliage may still be photosynthesizing. Logically why should seed production be so harmful to bulb development? The longer it takes to produce seed, the longer foliage is present in general and that has to a goods thing to over all energy production. If seed production were harmful, why would bulbs produce so much seed when they could vegetatively propagate as well. And it also figures that sterile hybrids would be even more vigorously and propagate more readily by vegetative means - both larger and more bulbs and divisions. I hope I am not suggesting that there are instances which might work either way (pro or con), but I think dead heading is mostly done for reasons of aesthetics not for its biological impact and for control of too vigorous seeding about. Does someone have empirical data pro or con? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From Theladygardens@aol.com Tue May 4 15:06:48 2004 Message-Id: From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: TOW Do in May - Garden Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 15:06:43 EDT It's WEED WEED WEED in my garden! Carolyn in Los Gatos, CA From dejager@bulbargence.com Tue May 4 16:32:07 2004 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: TOW N.H.Do in May - Garden Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 22:29:31 +0200 John, I quite agree with this statement. I my experience the plant keeps on growing much longer then those without flowers or those deadheaded. Regards Lauw le 4/05/04 10:28, johngrimshaw a écrit : > Even more tangibly, the > presence on the stem of a fruit is an incentive, controlled by hormones, for > the plant to remain in growth and therefore build up a much bigger bulb for > next year. The 'drain' of photosynthates to the seeds is more than matched > by their accumulation in the bulb and the resultant performance next season. > > John Grimshaw > Lauw de Jager http://www.bulbargence.com South of France (zone 8 Olivier) From hkoopowi@uci.edu Tue May 4 16:47:49 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.2.20040504134616.0159faf8@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Info on relaxation of USDA import rules for seed Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 13:47:44 -0700 You got it right Mary Sue. Also people like myself who collect bulb seeds in the wild would not even know what to ask for on the permit because one never knows what seed is available in the wild. Harold At 10:36 PM 5/1/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Dear All, > >After reading through all of this it sounds like a different permit would >be required for each shipment of seed. So if say one of the members of >this list in another country wanted to send seed to one of us in the >United States we would have to ask for a permit for that seed by name and >include where it was coming from. If the permit were granted it would be >sent to the person along with labels for where to send the seed and then >the seed would be sent there to be inspected and if o.k. it would then be >sent on to the recipient. Is that the way everyone else interprets this? >There would be extra cost for postage to ask for the permit, to send the >permit on to the exporter if granted and then to pay for the seed to go >for inspection and then back to you. It sounds like for a seed exchange >the person receiving the seed would have to know ahead of time what it >would be in order to request the permit for each donor and a bit of a >nightmare to do all the paper work. Is this what Leo means by thinking the >new system might be worse than the old one? > >Mary Sue > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From hkoopowi@uci.edu Tue May 4 16:51:16 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.2.20040504134916.01653ec8@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Info on relaxation of USDA import rules for seed Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 13:51:03 -0700 As I read the rules Russell, you would have to apply for a new permit for each consignment. This is not at all like my current plant import permit that is good for 5 years. Please tell me that I am wrong. Harold At 06:15 PM 5/3/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Except for the limits on the number of seeds per packet and the number of >packets per shipment, the proposed regulations sound very much like the >ones already in place for importation of seeds of woody plants. The rules >require such seed to be imported through one of the designated APHIS >stations. My Royal Horticultural Society shipment always includes some >seeds of woody plants and always enters through New York APHIS, and >although USDA is slower than I would like in inspecting the seeds and >relaying them to me I have otherwise had no problems. > >As Joe said, you only need to give general information on the import >permit -- such as some of the genera that you're likely to import and the >countries you're most likely to import them from. A few weeks later you >receive your permit (good for 5 years) and a supply of yellow and green >labels to be sent to suppliers, along with a copy of your permit. If you >run out of labels USDA will send more. > >It appears to me that these new rules would in many cases be a significant >improvement over the current ones. Some provision needs to be made for >importing genera such as Hypericum that tend to have very fine seeds, and >the labeling requirements (if taken literally) seem too fussy, but in >general these rules will make it much easier and less costly for entities >such as the Royal Horticultural Society to send seed to the U.S. > >In short, far better and less burdensome to be required to obtain a permit >-- good for 5 years -- to import small quantities of seeds than to be >required to obtain a phyto certificate for each importation. > >Russell > >At 10:36 PM 5/1/2004 -0700, you wrote: >>Dear All, >> >>After reading through all of this it sounds like a different permit would >>be required for each shipment of seed. So if say one of the members of >>this list in another country wanted to send seed to one of us in the >>United States we would have to ask for a permit for that seed by name and >>include where it was coming from. If the permit were granted it would be >>sent to the person along with labels for where to send the seed and then >>the seed would be sent there to be inspected and if o.k. it would then be >>sent on to the recipient. Is that the way everyone else interprets this? >>There would be extra cost for postage to ask for the permit, to send the >>permit on to the exporter if granted and then to pay for the seed to go >>for inspection and then back to you. It sounds like for a seed exchange >>the person receiving the seed would have to know ahead of time what it >>would be in order to request the permit for each donor and a bit of a >>nightmare to do all the paper work. Is this what Leo means by thinking >>the new system might be worse than the old one? >> >>Mary Sue > >Russell Stafford >Odyssey Bulbs >8984 Meadow Lane, Berrien Springs, Michigan 49103 >269-471-4642 >www.odysseybulbs.com > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue May 4 17:07:05 2004 Message-Id: <409805F7.8090809@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Muscari pallens duo Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 17:07:03 -0400 Here are two versions of M. pallens. The differences are evident. The JR is from Janis Ruksans and both have a slight detergent scent (pleasant) http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Muscari Arnold New Jersey From cindi28@juno.com Tue May 4 17:36:37 2004 Message-Id: <20040504.143513.3184.1.cindi28@juno.com> From: Cindi Coffen Subject: saving seeds Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:10:37 -0700 hi jane, thanks for your help. sorry that i am so slow in replying. seems time gets away from me... cindi "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take but by the moments that take our breath away." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From jglatt@ptd.net Tue May 4 17:57:54 2004 Message-Id: <000801c43223$31d7ffe0$139a32d1@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: that USDA seed importation stuff again Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 18:00:17 -0400 Here's an e-mail that came today. I'd corresponded (is that really the correct term for an e-mail back-and-forth?) with Dr. Tschanz last year, and it was thoughtful of him to keep me in the loop. Somewhat amusing, in light of the discussions we've been having on this form. He is doing a good job of "getting the word out" - at the North American Rock Garden Society's Eastern Winter Study Weekend in PA last January he participated in a concurrent session on this topic. Which apparently became so heated that Dr. Tschantz felt it necessary to announce that his suit was made of Kevlar. Judy in sunny, breezy, cool New Jersey where the flowering dogwood and lilacs are in flower. Iris bucharica is going over, and alas, I did not get pictures before yesterday's rain. Planting Tulipa sylvestris in a large circular terra cotta drain tile ring apparently worked to confine its rambling ways - it has 3 flowers. And T. hageri splendens is coloring up. ___________________________________________________________________ The rule change proposed by Plant Protection and Quarantine, APHIS, USDA, to allow the importation of small lots of seed without phytosanitary certificates under a plant import permit with special conditions has been published in the Federal Register on April 29 and is open for comments until June 28, 2004. This proposed rule docket can be accessed through the attachment below or through the following link http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppd/rad/webrepor/ppq.html Directions for providing comments to this proposed rule are detailed in the docket body. If you have problem accessing Docket No. 02-119-1; Importation of Small Lots of Seed Without Phytosanitary Certificates, please let me know, either at the above email address or by phone at 301-734-5306. We would greatly appreciate your comments. Thanks you for your continued interest in this issue. Arnie Arnold T. Tschanz Senior Staff Officer Regulatory Coordination USDA APHIS PPQ ----- Forwarded by Arnold T Tschanz/MD/APHIS/USDA on 05/04/2004 01:48 PM ----- PPQ Stakeholder Registry Sent by: Linda Toran 04/30/2004 08:25 AM To: arnold.t.tschanz@aphis.usda.gov cc: Subject: Importation of Small Lots of Seeds Without Phytosanitary Certificates Proposed Rule From mail@odysseybulbs.com Tue May 4 18:16:47 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20040504174048.029fadd0@pop.earthlink.net> From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Info on relaxation of USDA import rules for seed Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 18:28:35 -0400 I wish I could, Harold (and Leo), but this is a government bureaucracy we're dealing with, so perhaps I've been rash in asserting that the permits referred to in the document are the standard 5-year PPQ-597 forms. That was my first and second reading but the document does contain some passages that raise some questions in my mind as to what exactly is being proposed. Under the section entitled "Permits", the document states that applicants for the permit would submit the same information (including "expected date of arrival") as do applicants for the standard 5-year PPQ-597 permit, and that small shipments of seeds would be added to the ranks of "restricted articles" that require such a permit. This implies that the permit issued would be a standard 5-year permit. Soon thereafter, though, comes this sentence: "As with permits for other plant material that is imported into the United States, the permit for the small lots of seed would be sent to the importer along with written instructions, a copy of the import requirements, and a standard green and yellow shipping label." This hints that the permit might not be the 597 permit and that it would be good for only one shipment. On the other hand, it could merely be fuzzy writing. It's happened before. It's difficult at this point to respond to this proposed rule, because what's being proposed is not entirely clear. If the gist of the change is to add small shipments of seeds to the list of restricted articles that require a 597 permit, while exempting such shipments from the phyto requirement, then bully for it. I just I were absolutely certain that's what's being said. Time to ask for an official interpretation, I guess. Russell At 01:51 PM 5/4/2004 -0700, you wrote: >As I read the rules Russell, you would have to apply for a new permit for >each consignment. This is not at all like my current plant import permit >that is good for 5 years. Please tell me that I am wrong. >Harold Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs 8984 Meadow Lane, Berrien Springs, Michigan 49103 269-471-4642 www.odysseybulbs.com From kellyo@wetrock.com Tue May 4 19:09:34 2004 Message-Id: <4097C032.19454.4F3086DD@localhost> From: "Kelly O'Neill" Subject: Old Wives Tales Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 16:09:22 -0700 > Logically why should seed production be so harmful to bulb > development? The longer it takes to produce seed, the longer foliage > is present in general and that has to a goods thing to over all energy > production. I agree the foliage ought be treated well for the best bulb growth. I think removing the seed heads (only) does help many plants. Some plants even die if you let them go to seed. Such plants are not evolved for long life of individuals. Bulbs do seem less likely to fall into that category. I don't generally worry about deadheading unless I know I want to bulk up the vegetation/bulb on an especially important plant or I know it likes to bloom/seed itself to death. I'm not much for providing "empirical data ". I'm not sure I can even think of a good example of a bulb that really (clearly) benefits from deadheading. I do still believe that part of the "wives tale". The foliage is very important to many. I don't think Jim was saying that if you cut the seed head the foliage dies sooner (I think he was saying people cut the foliage in the process of removing the seed heads). If seed head presence extended foliage health, I would need to reconsider my theories. I think it is the opposite. Eremurus himilaicus (spelling probably off) and lots of irises glorious these days, KellyO -- Kelly O'Neill Wet Rock Gardens Flower Farm U-Pick and more at the farm (open Sun, Wed, Fri 9-6 and by appointment other times and days): 2877 N 19th Street Springfield, Oregon 97477 To contact us: gardens@wetrock.com http://www.wetrock.com (541) 746-4444 Business Office for mail or by appointment only: 1950 Yolanda AVE Springfield, Oregon 97477 From leo1010@attglobal.net Tue May 4 22:23:54 2004 Message-Id: <40982603.4090902@attglobal.net> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Info on relaxation of USDA import rules for seed Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 19:23:47 -0400 > The notion that you will have to apply for a separate > specific permit for each importation is totally unfounded. From the proposal: The completed permit application must contain the following information: (1) Name, address, and telephone number of the importer; (2) approximate quantity and kinds (botanical designations) of articles intended to be imported; (3) country or locality where grown; (4) intended U.S. port of entry; (5) means of transportation, e.g., mail, airmail, express, air express, freight, airfreight, or baggage; and (6) expected date of arrival. Let's go through two of these. > (2) approximate quantity and kinds > (botanical designations) > of articles intended to be imported; For the next five years? > (6) expected date of arrival. You would know this for the next five years? It seems to me they are intending each permit to cover one shipment. Leo -- Leo A. Martin Phoenix, Arizona, USA Like cactus and succulents? Central Arizona Cactus and Succulent Society http://www.centralarizonacactus.org From GEOPHYTE@sbcglobal.net Tue May 4 21:38:02 2004 Message-Id: From: GEOPHYTE@sbcglobal.net Subject: Info on relaxation of USDA import rules for seed Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 21:38:01 -0500 --- Original Message --- From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" >Soon thereafter, though, comes this sentence: "As with permits for other >plant material that is imported into the United States, the permit for the >small lots of seed would be sent to the importer along with written >instructions, a copy of the import requirements, and a standard green and >yellow shipping label." This hints that the permit might not be the 597 >permit and that it would be good for only one shipment. On the other hand, >it could merely be fuzzy writing. It's happened before. To me, this implies that a photocopy of your "small quantities of seed" permit (or perhaps a copy of a standard import permit) should be sent to the shipper, along with the proper shipping tags and a copy of the import requirements. This sounds very similar to the present plant material protocols, except that there is no mention of a phytosanitary permit. If that's the case, I'd say that it amounts to a relaxation of the current regulations Jamie From nargsbs@efn.org Tue May 4 22:48:10 2004 Message-Id: From: "Ernie O'Byrne" Subject: TOW N.H.Do in May - Garden Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 19:47:59 -0700 John, I am rather surprised to hear you say that you are not a proponent of deadheading. You were probably out of town when I asked, some time ago, how you handle the potential problem of seeding among the large drifts of one cultivar of snowdrop at Colesbourne. I never saw a reply to that inquiry, unless, for some reason, I missed it (always possible). I would think that that would be a potential for genetic drift in an established stand. Surely you would never save seed intentionally, sow it, and then sell it as the cultivar. So, what do you do? Surely, most of the cultivars not sterile, are they? I imagined that you must deadhead, but having seen the extensive drifts at Colesbourne, I also couldn't imagine a more daunting task, especially since snowdrops don't hold their seed heads conveniently upright ready for snipping, but flop over to better spread their seed about. So, if you don't deadhead, how do the clumps remain pure. Is it by constant rogueing? That would presume that whoever is doing the rogueing (over the many years at Colesbourne) has an idea of the "perfect" form for that cultivar. Please assuage my curiosity. Ernie O'Byrne Northwest Garden Nursery 86813 Central Road Eugene, ORegon 97402 USA USDA Z. 7B -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 1:29 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] TOW N.H.Do in May - Garden I've never understood the urge to deadhead bulbs except where obvious tidiness is required (in formal garden settings) or where seeding is a positive menace (e.g. some Allium, some Muscari, some Scilla/Hyacinthoides). The majority of commercial bulbs are really or effectively sterile in the garden, so removing spent flowers is merely a quest for tidiness: I have more useful things to do. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Gardens Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP From GEOPHYTE@sbcglobal.net Tue May 4 22:42:48 2004 Message-Id: From: GEOPHYTE@sbcglobal.net Subject: Info on relaxation of USDA import rules for seed Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 22:42:47 -0500 That appears to be the same information that the current 5-year import application requires. Generalized information is routinely approved. Jamie From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Wed May 5 03:36:53 2004 Message-Id: <004e01c43273$baee6530$79d7403e@John> From: Subject: TOW N.H.Do in May - Garden Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 08:07:28 +0100 Sorry to bang on about this, but I realised that there is another point to counter in Rand's earlier question: >I have been told (and please correct this if necessary) that most annual and dormancy prone plants, in general, consider their job done after flowering. NO!!!!!!! A plant's job is 'done' after SEEDING! Life is about reproduction, and flowers are merely a means to that end. Annuals will grow, flower and seed in proportion to the moisture available; if starved and thirsty in a dry year there may be one small flower on a tiny plant, but even that can produce a few seeds. Perennials of all classes, once established, can usually survive an adverse season, and if they miss a year's seeds it is not a great calamity. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Gardens Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rand Nicholson" Subject: Re: [pbs] TOW N.H.Do in May - Garden > Dear John: > > Really? Are there studies on this? I am sure that I am not the only one here that has been deadheading their bulbs faithfully each season, simply because it is part of the the accepted lore and advice that has been passed on as gospel for generations. As an intrinsically lazy gardener, I am more than interested in this statement. I have been told (and please correct this if necessary) that most annual and dormancy prone plants, in general, consider their job done after flowering. > > Rand Nicholson > From khixson@nu-world.com Wed May 5 03:43:20 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20040505004314.0087a724@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Old Wives Tales Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 00:43:14 -0700 Dear Members; >think removing the seed heads (only) does help many plants. Some >plants even die if you let them go to seed. Mostly not bulbs, but my experience: Pieris (japonica, etc), lily-of-the-valley shrub, definately performs much better when deadheaded immediately after flowering. If deadheaded, each branch terminal will usually make three or four branches. If not deadheaded, often no new branches, or only one. If you have a Pieris that is thin and ragged looking, try deadheading. Rhododendron racemosum sets an enormous number of flowers, and each flower becomes a seed pod. Whole branches die, so you seldom see a plant of this rhododendron that doesn't have dead branches. The answer is very simple-- simply take a pair of pruners and cut off most of the previous years' growth and resulting flowers/seed pods, either during flowering (take them into the house for a bouquet) or after the flowers fall. New growth will normally more than make up for what is pruned off. You don't need to remove all of the flowers/seedpods, just most of them. Pyracantha, or firethorn bush, does the same thing--branches that have had masses of berries will usually die back part way, and should be pruned out. I can't give statistics, but lilies (Lilium) which have set a large head of seedpods normally do not flower as well the following year. It is also worth noting that the common tiger lily, (Lilium lancifolium, formerly L. tigrinum), is a triploid, does not set seed, but does produce numerous bulbils in the axils of the leaves. The diploid forms of L. lancifolium are much less vigorous, and produce few or no bulbils. The triploid form is seen everywhere, while the diploid forms are only found in the gardens of lily hobbists. Ken Z7 western Oregon From ang.por@aliceposta.it Wed May 5 04:48:57 2004 Message-Id: <000001c4327d$84feac00$2c0c3352@computer> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: new email address Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 10:46:01 +0200 Dear Friends, I have changed email address. To contact me use ang.por at aliceposta.it many thanks Angelo Porcelli Italy From mrgoldbear@yahoo.com Wed May 5 05:11:36 2004 Message-Id: <20040505091135.9552.qmail@web20511.mail.yahoo.com> From: David Sneddon Subject: Info on relaxation of USDA import rules for seed Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 02:11:35 -0700 (PDT) Howdy, My only comment is that if the process is difficult it will not be followed or will be bypassed and hence the objective will not be achieved. Because it applies to small time seed sending the cost is not justified to have lots of controls in place to prevent small quantities of seed or to bring those in other countries to justice if they don't follow your import procedure? (Risk vs Cost). The procedure if it is too work must be easy, cheap and reliable. And it is worth noting it is a proposed procedure that those outside of the U.S. also have an interest (or disinterest) in. Regards, David. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs From dells@voicenet.com Wed May 5 07:50:04 2004 Message-Id: <200405051150.i45Bo1919627@email1.voicenet.com> From: Subject: Tulipa sylvestris Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 07:50:01 -0400 (EDT) Dear Judy, Is Tulipa sylvestris the floppy, yellow, fragrant one that has naturalized all over the place on my side of the river, do you think? Dell in E. PA On Tue, 4 May 2004 18:00:17 -0400, "Judy Glattstein" wrote : > Here's an e-mail that came today. I'd corresponded (is that really the > correct term for an e-mail back-and-forth?) with Dr. Tschanz last year, and > it was thoughtful of him to keep me in the loop. Somewhat amusing, in light > of the discussions we've been having on this form. He is doing a good job of > "getting the word out" - at the North American Rock Garden Society's Eastern > Winter Study Weekend in PA last January he participated in a concurrent > session on this topic. Which apparently became so heated that Dr. Tschantz > felt it necessary to announce that his suit was made of Kevlar. > > Judy in sunny, breezy, cool New Jersey where the flowering dogwood and > lilacs are in flower. Iris bucharica is going over, and alas, I did not get > pictures before yesterday's rain. Planting Tulipa sylvestris in a large > circular terra cotta drain tile ring apparently worked to confine its > rambling ways - it has 3 flowers. And T. hageri splendens is coloring up. > ___________________________________________________________________ > > The rule change proposed by Plant Protection and Quarantine, APHIS, USDA, to > allow the importation of small lots of seed without phytosanitary > certificates under a plant import permit with special conditions has been > published in the Federal Register on April 29 and is open for comments until > June 28, 2004. This proposed rule docket can be accessed through the > attachment below or through the following link > http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppd/rad/webrepor/ppq.html Directions for > providing comments to this proposed rule are detailed in the docket body. > > If you have problem accessing Docket No. 02-119-1; Importation of Small > Lots of Seed Without Phytosanitary Certificates, please let me know, either > at the above email address or by phone at 301-734-5306. > > We would greatly appreciate your comments. > > Thanks you for your continued interest in this issue. > > Arnie > > Arnold T. Tschanz > Senior Staff Officer > Regulatory Coordination > USDA APHIS PPQ > > ----- Forwarded by Arnold T Tschanz/MD/APHIS/USDA on 05/04/2004 01:48 > PM ----- > PPQ Stakeholder Registry > Sent by: Linda Toran > 04/30/2004 08:25 AM > > > To: arnold.t.tschanz@aphis.usda.gov > cc: > Subject: Importation of Small Lots of Seeds Without > Phytosanitary Certificates > > > Proposed Rule > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > From jshields104@insightbb.com Wed May 5 08:47:07 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040505074033.026e5fd8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Info on relaxation of USDA import rules for seed Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 07:47:06 -0500 I agree with Jamie. I have had a regular plant import permit for a couple of years now. I just send a photocopy of my permit letter and one of the yellow and green labels with my overseas plant orders. The expected arrival date has not been a problem; as I recall, I put down "at appropriate seasons". This proposal in fact appears to me to be an excellent resolution of the dilemma USDA got into (mainly because of international agreements, I suspect). Don't knock it till you've tried it! Jim Shields in central Indiana At 10:42 PM 5/4/2004 -0500, you wrote: >That appears to be the same information that the >current 5-year import application requires. >Generalized information is routinely approved. > >Jamie > ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Wed May 5 09:52:11 2004 Message-Id: <003301c432a8$28d5c7d0$03e9403e@John> From: Subject: not deadheading snowdrops Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 13:49:12 +0100 In reply to Ernie O'Byrne's question about deadheading snowdrops here at Colesbourne Park. The answer is No, we don't attempt to deadhead anything. A) it's impossible and B) we want them to seed! Some clones are sterile, especially the hybrids, which helps. Among these are the triploids 'S. Arnott' and 'Magnet'. Of others, some are fertile, some are not. In many springs very few seeds are set anyway, which is disappointing - it all depends on how warm it is and how active the bees are. But there are pods on some most seasons and we do get lots of self-sown seedlings. In the wild garden this does not really matter, and there are masses of seed-grown G. plicatus ssp. plicatus and ssp. byzantinus. Most of others, especially G. nivalis, while forming big patches, have all actually been planted and give very little seed, sadly. In the new Spring Garden, where the majority of the collection of specials is now grown, the patches are quite discrete and seedlings appearing between them can be observed and removed as appropriate. The thing that makes it quite easy to recognize a seedling is that the established clones nearby will have formed clumps,while a seedling will be on its own as a small bulb. Danger comes when the seedling occurs in the middle of the established patch. Here one can only tell that it is different when it flowers. It is not difficult to spot such interlopers in most clumps, once one's eye is in. They are very seldom closely similar. Once again, it will need removing and again, the single bulb will give the game away. Vigilance is certainly necessary - if in doubt, remove it. The good thing about seeding snowdrops is that it gives the opportunity for interesting seedlings to arise, giving occasionally a nice one, or perhaps even something really special. But if I did see pods floating about dangerously I would be tempted to remove them to somewhere else; there is no point letting clumps be contaminated when the seed can be deployed elsewhere. For excitement in seedling snowdrops I suggest using G. plicatus 'Trym' as a parent; the strangely shaped and marked flowers are transmitted to its offspring with several other species. I know several galanthphiles are going for a yellow 'Trym'! John Grimshaw . Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Gardens Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 Mobile 07 919 840 063 Fax (Estate Office) 01242 870541 Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernie O'Byrne" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:47 AM Subject: RE: [pbs] TOW N.H.Do in May - Garden > John, I am rather surprised to hear you say that you are not a proponent of > deadheading. You were probably out of town when I asked, some time ago, how > you handle the potential problem of seeding among the large drifts of one > cultivar of snowdrop at Colesbourne. I never saw a reply to that inquiry, > unless, for some reason, I missed it (always possible). I would think that > that would be a potential for genetic drift in an established stand. Surely > you would never save seed intentionally, sow it, and then sell it as the > cultivar. So, what do you do? Surely, most of the cultivars not sterile, are > they? > > I imagined that you must deadhead, but having seen the extensive drifts at > Colesbourne, I also couldn't imagine a more daunting task, especially since > snowdrops don't hold their seed heads conveniently upright ready for > snipping, but flop over to better spread their seed about. So, if you don't > deadhead, how do the clumps remain pure. Is it by constant rogueing? That > would presume that whoever is doing the rogueing (over the many years at > Colesbourne) has an idea of the "perfect" form for that cultivar. Please > assuage my curiosity. > > Ernie O'Byrne > From ConroeJoe@aol.com Wed May 5 09:12:26 2004 Message-Id: From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: deadheading Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 09:12:21 EDT Hi, Several questions were posed about deadheading, and "is it useful for plant grow or rebloom," etc. This is a fun topic, and touches on plant physiology, plant evolution, natural selection, and other interesting areas. Q1: Is there data for the idea that developing fruits put a damper on plant growth. A1. I don't have scientific data and will try to find what is published. Maybe I can come up with data rather than just "the accepted explanation," which I present here. Q2: Why would seed production be harmful to the bulb development? A2: The oft given reason is that developing seeds are a "sink." They are a site where photosynthate is shunted. The plant physiology-type idea is that while seeds are developing the plan defers sending much photosynthate to shoots, roots, and storage organs. Q3: If seed production were harmful, why would bulbs produce so much seed when they could vegetatively propagate as well? A3: As I understand evolutionarily theory and sexual reproduction, it is thought that seed production (sexual reproduction) has benefits overall for just about any species. A plant can propagate its genes more effectively in an evolutionary sense when the genes are "mixed and matched" with those of other individuals. The idea from many studies is that just about any species that doesn't reproduce sexually will eventually reach a dead end (but it may take many centuries). Q4: What about flowering, does deadheading enhance flowering? A4: This concept is absolutely demonstrated in some plants that can rebloom (e.g., roses, some annuals). What happens is that developing fruits send a message to the rest of the plant (hormonal or hormone-like). The plant senses the developing fruit and "decides" that it has reproduced successfully for the season, and it makes no more flowers. Deadheading is useful in some plant species because the practice promotes rebloom; i.e., more flowers. This is not a general phenomenon of much bulbous plant, as far as I know. They bloom once and that is it. However, some tuberous gesneriads benefit from deadheading (e.g., Sinningia species). As a side note, I understand that probably seed production is not "harmful," but it does temporarily (if the theory is correct) put food aside for the next generation rather than for the current. Many species of plants are not harmed (per se) as opposed to losing a bit of food for several weeks. But the idea is that the species would be harmed if sexual reproduction did not occur. Q5: What about hybrids, why don't sterile hybrids flower vigorously and propagate more vigorously? A5: Some sterile hybrids do just what is suggested, but many do not. However, in general, hybrids establish their own rules as they try to express the sometimes-conflicting information from two very different gene sets; hybrids don't seem like a good test of the deadheading ideas because, by definition, most hybrids are different from each other and comparisons don't work. Also, quite often, hybrids are selected for color or shape, etc., with no regard for vigor or bloom quantity; thus the hybridizer often throws away vigorous bloomers because they might not be large-flowered or the correct color, etc. Q6: Where is the evidence? A6: I don't know, but I'll try to find out what is published. Maybe bulbs will have patterns of photosynthate movement that are independent of fruit set, maybe not. Such information is probably out there in the scientific record for a variety of bulbs, and collectively may support general statements. Comment: I don't deadhead, it is not in my nature. C.J. From claudesweet@cox.net Wed May 5 11:08:36 2004 Message-Id: <40990373.7070705@cox.net> From: Claude Sweet Subject: list of oxalis sources Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 08:08:35 -0700 I am also developing a list of reliable oxalis sources. Does anyone have any additions to the following list? Telos Rare Bulbs 30 different oxalis species P.O. Box 4147 Arcata, CA 95518 http://www.telosrarebulbs.com/ Odyssey Bulbs bowiei 8984 Meadow Lane comosa Berrien Springs, Michigan 49103 hirta 'Gothenburg' Phone & Fax 269-471-4642 melanosticta 'Ken Aslet' http://www.odysseybulbs.com pes-caprae 'Ione Hecker' McClure and Zimmerman adenophylla P. O. Box 368 pink regnellii (triangularis) Friesland, WI 3935-0368 purpurea Phone: (800) 833-6998 versicolor Fax: (800) 374-6120 http://www.mzbulb.com Brent and Becky's Bulbs adenophylla 7900 Daffodil Lane regnellii 'Irish Mist' Gloucester, VA 23061 tetraphylla Phone: (804) 693-3966 tetraphylla 'Iron Cross' FAX: (804) 693-9436 versicolor http://www.brentandbeckysbulbs.com/ South African Bulbs Garnet' 1452 Santa Fe Drive hirta Encinitas, CA 92024 lobata 760 943-1658 purpurea http://www.thebulbman.com/ BulbMeister corymbosa 4407 Town Vu Road deppei 'Iron Cross' Bentonville, AR 72712 depressa (O.inops) Phone: (479) 366-4968 lasiandra http://www.bulbmeister.com/ triangularis ssp. Plant Delights Nursery, Inc. deppei 'Iron Cross' 9241 Sauls Road lasiandra Raleigh, NC 27603 lobata Phone: (919) 772-4794 regnellii 'Fanny' Fax: (919) 662-0370 regnellii 'Irish Mist' http://www.plantdelights.com/ regnellii 'Triangularis' (Purple Leaf) Arrowhead Alpines crassipes 'Alba' PO Box 857 crassipes 'Rosea' Fowlerville, MI 48836 magellanica 'Nelson' Phone: (517) 223-3581 violaceum Fax: (517) 223-8750 http://www.arrowhead-alpines.com The Violet Barn, hedysaroides 'Rubra' PO Box 9, Naples, Naples, NY 14512 Phone: (585)374-8592 Fax: (585) 374-6947 http://www.robsviolet.com Joy Creek Nursery oregana 20300 NW Watson Road Scappoose, OR 97056 Phone: (503) 543-7474 Fax: (503) 543-6933 http://www.joycreek.com Oregon Exotics Nursery tuburosa 1065 Messinger Road Grants Pass, Oregon 97527 Phone: (541) 846-7578 http://www.exoticfruit.com/ Logee's Greenhouses Silver and Gold' 141 North Street Danielson, CT 06239 Phone: (888) 330-8038 http://www.logees.com Glasshouse Works herrerae P.O. Box 97 peduncularis Stewart, OH 45778-0097 brasiliensis Phone: (740) 662-2142 corymbosa aureo-reticulata Fax: (740) 662-2120 hedysaroides 'Rubra' http://www.glasshouseworks.com Claude Sweet San Diego, CA USA zone 9 From claudesweet@cox.net Wed May 5 11:15:30 2004 Message-Id: <409904F7.3020309@cox.net> From: Claude Sweet Subject: oxalis info list Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 08:15:03 -0700 I am developing a list of information about different oxalis species and selections. My information is in an excel spreadsheet file. I will be pleased to send a copy to anyone who has experience growing oxalis. There are many species I don't have personal experience in growing and I welcome comments, suggestions, and help filling in the blanks. This list is not designed to include all known species and is limited to those that are available from private collectors, plant societies, or mail order sources. I have included some weedy species so that they can be identified easily by the person consulting the list. The various categories include: Species Synonym Common Name Planting Time Hardiness Zone Dormancy Habit Height In Inches Flower Size Flower Color Flowering Season Leaf Color Root Type System Propagation Origin Comments The species I have included in the list are: adenophylla articulata bowiei braziliensis carnosa commutata comosa compressa convexula corniculata corniculata rubra corymbosa aureo-reticulata crassipes ‘Rosea’ crassipes alba deppei depressa drummondii enneaphylla 'Alba' enneaphylla 'Rosea' europaea fabaefolia flava floribunda glabra goniorhiza grandis gigantea haworthioides hedysaroides 'Rubra' herrerae hirta incarnata laciniata lactea lasiandra latifolia lobata luteola magellanica 'Nelson' martiana massoniana mollissima montana obtusa oregana ortgiesii palmifrons peduncularis pes-caprae polphylla purpurea purpurea 'Garnet' purpurea 'Grand Duchess' purpurea 'Ken Aslet' quadrangularis regnellii regnellii regnellii atropurpurea regnellii var. triangularis rosea rubra siliquosa Silver and Gold' stenorrhyncha stipularis stricta tenuifolia tetraphylla tetraphylla 'Iron Cross' tomentosa triangularis triangularis 'Birgit' triangularis 'Fanny' ® triangularis 'Mijke' triangularis ssp. papilionacea triangularis ssp. triangularis tuberosa versicolor violacea zeekoevleyensis Claude Sweet San Diego, CA USA zone 9 From claudesweet@cox.net Wed May 5 11:18:30 2004 Message-Id: <409905C5.3080607@cox.net> From: Claude Sweet Subject: list of oxalis sources Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 08:18:29 -0700 Sorry about the information being all over the place. I'll send an excel file to anyone who is interested. The material was fine on my screen when I sent it. Claude Sweet Claude Sweet wrote: > I am also developing a list of reliable oxalis sources. Does anyone > have any additions to the following list? > > Telos Rare Bulbs 30 different oxalis species > P.O. Box 4147 Arcata, CA 95518 http://www.telosrarebulbs.com/ > Odyssey Bulbs bowiei > 8984 Meadow Lane comosa > Berrien Springs, Michigan 49103 hirta 'Gothenburg' > Phone & Fax 269-471-4642 melanosticta 'Ken Aslet' > From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Wed May 5 10:56:59 2004 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: TOW N.H.Do in May - Garden Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 11:56:54 -0400 Of course, that should have read "... after flowering *and setting seed*." Sorry for being unclear. The seed setting part was meant to be implied. See what I mean about being lazy? Rand (who hopes to have fatter bulbs for next year) >Sorry to bang on about this, but I realised that there is another point to >counter in Rand's earlier question: > >>I have been told (and please correct this if necessary) that most annual >and dormancy prone plants, in general, consider their job done after >flowering. > >NO!!!!!!! > >A plant's job is 'done' after SEEDING! Life is about reproduction, and >flowers are merely a means to that end. Annuals will grow, flower and seed >in proportion to the moisture available; if starved and thirsty in a dry >year there may be one small flower on a tiny plant, but even that can >produce a few seeds. Perennials of all classes, once established, can >usually survive an adverse season, and if they miss a year's seeds it is not >a great calamity. > >John Grimshaw > >Dr John M. Grimshaw >Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens > >Gardens Cottage >Colesbourne >Nr Cheltenham >Gloucestershire GL53 9NP > >Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rand Nicholson" >Subject: Re: [pbs] TOW N.H.Do in May - Garden > > >> Dear John: >> >> Really? Are there studies on this? I am sure that I am not the only one >here that has been deadheading their bulbs faithfully each season, simply >because it is part of the the accepted lore and advice that has been passed >on as gospel for generations. As an intrinsically lazy gardener, I am more >than interested in this statement. I have been told (and please correct this >if necessary) that most annual and dormancy prone plants, in general, >consider their job done after flowering. >> >> Rand Nicholson >> > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From mail@odysseybulbs.com Wed May 5 14:59:36 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20040505150707.024e8c60@pop.earthlink.net> From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Info on relaxation of USDA import rules for seed Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 15:11:15 -0400 Are we certain that the regular import permit applies here, Jim? Or is APHIS introducing a new permit just for small lots of seed? The proposal leaves me wondering. Someone needs to contact APHIS and resolve this. Russell At 07:47 AM 5/5/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I agree with Jamie. I have had a regular plant import permit for a couple >of years now. I just send a photocopy of my permit letter and one of the >yellow and green labels with my overseas plant orders. The expected >arrival date has not been a problem; as I recall, I put down "at >appropriate seasons". This proposal in fact appears to me to be an >excellent resolution of the dilemma USDA got into (mainly because of >international agreements, I suspect). > >Don't knock it till you've tried it! > >Jim Shields >in central Indiana Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs 8984 Meadow Lane, Berrien Springs, Michigan 49103 269-471-4642 www.odysseybulbs.com From valden@vectis52.freeserve.co.uk Wed May 5 15:14:19 2004 Message-Id: <002f01c432d4$fdb9bc00$bf4d893e@deny471g8xq1jy> From: "Den Wilson" Subject: Old Wives Tales Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 20:12:23 +0100 Kelly wrote: << Some plants even die if you let them go to seed. Such plants are not evolved for long life of individuals. Bulbs do seem less likely to fall into that category.>> I agree. Perhaps we are not giving sufficient consideration to the diversity of bulbous pants. Some bulbs, Rhodophiala is a good example, rarely or never make offsets and rely almost entirely on reproducing from seed. It is noticeable that these bulbs are usually short-lived if seed production is permitted to continue unchecked, whereas dead-heading appears to prolong bulb-life considerably. In the case of some Rhodophiala I have noticed that they appear to decline after only 3-4 years of continuous seed production. The bulbs flower repeatedly during summer and are capable of producing large quantities of seed but only at enormous expense to the bulb. In this case dead-heading appears to preserve both vigour and bulb-life, perhaps because the plant still needs to fulfil its main task of reproduction. On the other hand I have noticed no such effect in Nerine or Hippeastrum which usually produce offsets quite freely. However, I have a bulb of Hippeastrum brasilianum which has not produced a single offset in 7 years. It is, however, self-fertile as are many Rhodophiala. Conversely, H. petiolatum is self-sterile and produces offsets by the dozen so dead-heading would make no difference. Some old-wives may have got it right - it depends on what they were growing. Cheers. Den Wilson Isle of Wight UK. Zone 8 (maritime) almost frost-free. From ConroeJoe@aol.com Wed May 5 21:34:21 2004 Message-Id: <126.40175425.2dcaf017@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 16, Issue 6 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 21:34:15 EDT Hi, I have Lycoris sprengeri in the yard. It has been there 2 years and grows well. The first fall there was only a single scape among a dozen or more bulbs. I have head that L. sprengeri just won't flower well in zone 9 because the winters are not cold enough. The last 2 winters have seen lows around 25 F. But other sources indicate it is suitable for zone 9 (e.g., Plant Delights catalog). Generally, venders on the Web indicate the plant is suitable for zone 9. Does anyone know more about this? Maybe the plants need 2 full seasons to recover from being moved? C. J., Conroe TX, sunny and pleasant this week, upper 80s Link: PDN catalog page, Lycoris sprengeri, great photo http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Current/Detail/03821.html Link: Naturalizing Summer-blooming Bulbs http://www.bbg.org/gar2/topics/plants/handbooks/summerbulbs/6.html From arnold@nj.rr.com Wed May 5 22:04:28 2004 Message-Id: <40999D2A.4030603@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 16, Issue 6 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 22:04:26 -0400 CJ: I have L. sprengeri here in Northern New Jersey and it did take two years for it to settle in. I believe that it may have even not appeared the first year above ground. It is located in a damp spot near some species lilies and a cardiocrinum that have nurturing along for three years. Gets three to four hours of sun per day. Arnold New Jersey From scamp@earthlink.net Thu May 6 01:10:55 2004 Message-Id: <410-2200454651053896@earthlink.net> From: "Christine Council" Subject: list of oxalis sources Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 01:10:53 -0400 Hello All: Perhaps I am jumping in, in the middle of a question but I think someone wants information on purchasing rare and exotic plants and bulbs. I found Glass House Works in Stewart, Ohio; They are quite nice and ship plants only when they are ready. I imagine one can ask for plants in various stages, however it has worked out well for me to receive Oxalis when they are beyond dormancy. Glasshouse Works Plants TRaditional & Unusual Church Street P.O Box 97 Stewart, OH 45778-0097 1-740/662-2142 > [Original Message] > From: Claude Sweet > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Date: 5/5/2004 11:18:33 AM > Subject: Re: [pbs] list of oxalis sources > > Sorry about the information being all over the place. > > I'll send an excel file to anyone who is interested. > > The material was fine on my screen when I sent it. > > Claude Sweet > > Claude Sweet wrote: > > > I am also developing a list of reliable oxalis sources. Does anyone > > have any additions to the following list? > > > > Telos Rare Bulbs 30 different oxalis species > > P.O. Box 4147 Arcata, CA 95518 http://www.telosrarebulbs.com/ > > Odyssey Bulbs bowiei > > 8984 Meadow Lane comosa > > Berrien Springs, Michigan 49103 hirta 'Gothenburg' > > Phone & Fax 269-471-4642 melanosticta 'Ken Aslet' > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From scamp@earthlink.net Thu May 6 01:20:56 2004 Message-Id: <410-2200454652054780@earthlink.net> From: "Christine Council" Subject: list of oxalis sources Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 01:20:54 -0400 Sorry, the address for Glasshouse works is, plants@glasshouseworks.com Chris > [Original Message] > From: Claude Sweet > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Date: 5/5/2004 11:18:33 AM > Subject: Re: [pbs] list of oxalis sources > > Sorry about the information being all over the place. > > I'll send an excel file to anyone who is interested. > > The material was fine on my screen when I sent it. > > Claude Sweet > > Claude Sweet wrote: > > > I am also developing a list of reliable oxalis sources. Does anyone > > have any additions to the following list? > > > > Telos Rare Bulbs 30 different oxalis species > > P.O. Box 4147 Arcata, CA 95518 http://www.telosrarebulbs.com/ > > Odyssey Bulbs bowiei > > 8984 Meadow Lane comosa > > Berrien Springs, Michigan 49103 hirta 'Gothenburg' > > Phone & Fax 269-471-4642 melanosticta 'Ken Aslet' > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Thu May 6 08:45:43 2004 Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476B976BA@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Fritillaria assyriaca images Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 07:45:53 -0500 Dear All: Dr. David Lentz, our Vice President for Scientific Affairs has received a request from Dr. Robert King, a retired geneticist, for some information about Fritillaria assyriaca. He edits a book called, "Dictionary of Genetics," and would like a photo or illustration of this plant. Does anyone have this plant growing in their collections? Does anyone have an image of this plant that Dr. King can use? Many thanks, Boyce Tankersley Manager of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel (847) 835-6841 fax (847) 835-1635 btankers@chicagobotanic.org From ggroiti@agro.uba.ar Thu May 6 11:22:17 2004 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040506121422.0220d168@pop3.agro.uba.ar> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n?= Roitman Subject: OOT: xero gardening Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 12:22:04 -0300 Hi All Sorry for the OOT (out of topic) but we are planning a landscaping congress here and we are interested in contacting people with experience in Xero-landscaping (gardening in dry areas) for a possible video conference. If you know somebody with experience in that kind of topic i would appreciate if you can give me name and/or email for further contact. Thanking you in advance Best wishes Germán _______________________________________ Ing. Agr. MSc Germán Roitman mailto:groitman@mail.retina.ar Cátedra de Jardinería FAUBA Av. San Martín 4453. 1417. Buenos Aires Argentina ICQ: 1837762 _______________________________________ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 04/05/2004 From Pekasky@aol.com Thu May 6 12:25:02 2004 Message-Id: From: Pekasky@aol.com Subject: Fritillaria assyriaca images Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 12:24:54 EDT In a message dated 5/6/2004 5:46:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, btankers@chicagobotanic.org writes: Fritillaria assyriaca See Bryan, John E., Bulbs, Timber Press, 2002 (revised edition), pp. 236, 237, Plate 512; see also Turner, R.G., Jr., Botanica, Random House, 1997, p. 384. There are descriptions and pictures in both publications. According to Bryan, Turner and other sources, F. assyriaca is usually misnamed and is actually F. uva-vulpis. The picture in Bulbs is supposedly of F. assyriaca, and the one in Botanica is supposedly F. uva-vulpis. Bryan states that there are two different plants but that uva-vulpis is usually misnamed as assyriaca. F. assyriaca was discovered in 1874; F. uva-vulpis in 1974. Hope I haven't confused the issue too much. From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Thu May 6 14:42:51 2004 Message-Id: <004701c43399$ef59d030$a3d9f7a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Telos Rare Bulbs Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:42:49 -0700 Dear All: The web site, www.telosrarebulbs.com, has been updated for 2004 (thanks to the kindness of Dave Fenwick). Diana Telos Rare Bulbs From jglatt@ptd.net Fri May 7 17:26:02 2004 Message-Id: <000501c4347a$4584c4c0$bd21bacc@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: Tulipa sylvestris Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 17:28:38 -0400 To Dell and all others who might be interested - My understanding is that there are two clones of Tulipa sylvestris out there. Both ramble around, one flowers freely, the other does not. Flowers nod in a graceful manner, and the outer tepals curl back at the tips, reminding me of an illumination in the margins of a medieval manuscript. Mine came from a friend's garden. The one Helen had was the rambling, sparse flowering variety. I've seen this tulip in a private garden in Holland, flowering en masse. The owner said that area was regularly dug over and disturbed, not specifically with the tulips in mind. However, she attributed the freely flowering aspect to the disturbance. The 1996 Classified List and International Register of Tulip Names mentions: T. sylvestris, described in 1753, from West Africa, Europe, Asia Minor, N.W. Iran, clear bright yellow within, exterior yellow, back of tepals greenish, sweet scented. T. sylvestris var.. major "a large form with 8 tepals, and T. sylvestris 'Tabriz Variety' lemon yellow, exterior green, sweetly scented, introduced by Van Tubergen from Iran in 1933 To add to the merriment there's also Tulipa biebersteiniana, described in 1829 from the Crimea, Lower Wolga (no, that's not my typo, don't know about the Classified List) Caucasus, Aralo-Caspian region, lake Balkhash are. Which, apparently, some authorities regard as a synonym of sylvestris. I would surely like to have a clone that flowers more freely. At the same time, I'd never discard the one I have, as my friend died about 18 months ago and this is a sweet reminder of a sweet lady, good friend, and fine gardener. And now back out into the garden to play before the rains return. Judy in new jersey where the arisaema are flaunting their bizarre spathes/ spadix (spadices?) and the Arisarum proboscoideum is ready to display its little mouse-tails. From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Fri May 7 18:35:32 2004 Message-Id: <409C0F2C.5010307@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 16, Issue 6 Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 17:35:24 -0500 Joe: I have heard it rumored that most of the spring foliage Lycoris have difficulty blooming in zone 9. I don't know if it is true or not. Of course, I believe that the zone ranges offered in catalogs are more related to survivability, hardiness, than bloom consistency. Here in zone 6, I have been experiencing about two seasons for recovery of transplanted Lycoris (from dormant trade stock). ConroeJoe@aol.com wrote: >Hi, > >I have Lycoris sprengeri in the yard. It has been there 2 years and grows >well. The first fall there was only a single scape among a dozen or more bulbs. > -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-366-4968 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From khixson@nu-world.com Sat May 8 02:40:46 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20040507234025.0086f840@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: "false" hellebore Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 23:40:25 -0700 Hi, members: Earlier, Jane wrote of wondering why Veratrum was a "false" hellebore, when it didn't resemble Helleborus. While looking for something else, I happened to access the following: www.larkspurbooks.com/Lily5.html "False Hellebore, Corn Lily, Veratrum californicum: The word "hellebore" is from the Greek elleboros. The scientific name is from the Latin "veratrum," both terms were used in antiquity for poisonous plants. Later, those in the Lilly family were given the Latin name veratrum; and those in the Buttercup family the Greek name, helleborus. Thus, "true" hellebores are members of the Buttercup Family . The "false" hellebores are Liliaceae. All are poisonous, although they do have therapeutic value—Helleborus species contain cardiac glycosides and Veratrum viride was, until recently, used to treat hypertension." This all sounds reasonable, so until someone wiser than I proposes a better answer, I'll accept this. Ken PS Lily family, not Lilly. From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Sat May 8 08:00:34 2004 Message-Id: <001401c434f4$12df38a0$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 16, Issue 6 Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 08:00:35 -0400 It is true! The few Lycoris that can be grown here bloom once every few years in zone 9, St. Petersburg, FL. Unfortunately. But those years they bloom I am glad I keep em around. Kevin Preuss ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Irvin" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Re: pbs Digest, Vol 16, Issue 6 > Joe: > > I have heard it rumored that most of the spring foliage Lycoris have > difficulty blooming in zone 9. I don't know if it is true or not. Of > course, I believe that the zone ranges offered in catalogs are more > related to survivability, hardiness, than bloom consistency. > > Here in zone 6, I have been experiencing about two seasons for recovery > of transplanted Lycoris (from dormant trade stock). > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat May 8 09:57:13 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Lycoris Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 08:56:48 -0500 Dear all; Because commercial Lycoris are almost routinely mishandled (dug early, dried and stored too long) they enter the garden stressed. Bulbs can take up to 3 years or more to recover and bloom properly. I'd guess that it is more common to have some stress than not from most suppliers. As for hardiness in Southern Zones. There are two distinct sub-genera in the genus. The group that includes L. squamigera has spring foliage and comes from more northern locations and does no do well in the south. The second group which includes L. radiata and has foliage that appears in the fall does best in southern locations. L. aurea(the true species which is not as common as some substitutes) does not much like frost of any sort. It naturally occurs in and near tropical regions of S. Asia. Thus do not grow northern species in the south-they hate it. Grow warm climate species and have regular good bloom in the south. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From JFlintoff@aol.com Sat May 8 10:23:23 2004 Message-Id: <81.b456c90.2dce4756@aol.com> From: JFlintoff@aol.com Subject: Tulipa sylvestris Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 10:23:18 EDT Judy et al There is another free-flowering clone of Tulipa sylvestris ( ssp. sylvestris ) called ' Grooteboek ' , found in a churchyard in Grootebroek, Holland in 1965, according to the Hoog and Dix catalog of 1996. It increases, but stays in a neat clump. I'll have to check to see if it produces short stolons or none at all later today. It is one of the most graceful and elegant of the wild tulips, and its fragrance is lovely too. The leaves do not seem quite so vulnerable to weather damage and consequent botrytis infection as many of the earlier flowering species. Another varient of T sylvestris that I haven't seen mentioned this year is the plant called T primulina. The flowers are white, flushed a bit with pink without, and very lovely to my eyes. It increases but slowly, alas. I think, but I'm not sure, that it is fragrant. Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washington,USA Zone 8 From mark@marksgardenplants.com Sat May 8 13:09:20 2004 Message-Id: <002c01c4351f$369db520$2b259a51@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Iris ID please Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 18:09:24 +0100 Robert, Denis & Jerry my unknown Iris looks very like I. attica. thanks for your input Mark N Ireland From leo1010@attglobal.net Sat May 8 19:53:45 2004 Message-Id: <409D48CF.3070300@attglobal.net> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Lycoris Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 16:53:35 -0400 > I have heard it rumored that most of the spring foliage Lycoris have > difficulty blooming in zone 9. I don't know if it is true or not. L. radiata, the red one, is bulletproof here in Phoenix. It multiplies well and blooms in August. I planted pink and yellow ones years ago and they grew for one season. Leo -- Leo A. Martin Phoenix, Arizona, USA Like cactus and succulents? Central Arizona Cactus and Succulent Society http://www.centralarizonacactus.org From africanbulbs@haznet.co.za Sun May 9 17:24:17 2004 Message-Id: <000401c4360e$a88447e0$586a27c4@ecuser62> From: "Cameron McMaster" Subject: TOW - Ledebouria Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 23:39:54 +0200 The genus Ledebouria (Hyacinthaceae) in South Africa contains about 40 species, with only two confined to the winter rainfall region, three overlapping winter and summer rainfall regions, and the rest confined to the summer rainfall region. The unpublished revision done in 1993 by S. Venter is the most recent, but it is still not easy to use especially when the bulbs are not in flower. In October 2002 a vegetative key was published by A. Hankey (following Venter's revision) which is more user-friendly. Ledebouria species are from a few cms to about 30 cms tall, usually having interesting or decorative leaves which can make appealing pot subjects, especially the dwarf species. Their flowers are arranged on a floppy spike mostly appearing in early spring before the grass is up. The individual flowers are not large or showy, but when examined closely they are exquisite with various colourings of mauve, purple and pink (sometimes almost luminous) on the stamens and pedicels. They usually like to grow amongst rocks or in grassveld. They go dormant in the dry winters, and can tolerate a degree or two of frost. In the montane grassland species, they would get a bit of winter moisture from mist or the occasional light shower/snowfall. The seeds of most of the summer rainfall species are usually ripe by early summer and ready to germinate immediately with no fuss. I have found a clone or single plants do not set seed. They seem to need cross-pollination to produce seeds. Does anyone know how easily they would hybridise? Hankey divides the South African species into three Sections. In Section A with leaves erect (majority on an axis closer to 90 than 45 degrees), there are eight species, including: L. viscosa which has sand particles sticking to the leaves. L. dolomitica and L. cooperi which may both sometimes have more floppy than upright leaves and are therefore also listed in Section C. L. sandersonii can be very confusing with very variable leaves, and is listed in all three Sections! In Section B with leaves adpressed to the soil surface, there are seven species, including: L. galpinii, a delightful miniature with purplish-green textured leaves, and a beautiful little cluster of pink flowers in early spring. L. ovatifolia, which occurs to tropical Africa and Sri Lanka. L. ovalifolia (confusing with the previous name!!) which I would include in Section C because my plants have semi-upright leaves, definitlely not pressed to the ground. Could it be a hybrid? This one is from the winter rainfall region with a summer dormancy, or evergreen in my experience growing it here in Napier (the Overberg region of the Western Cape). In Section C with leaves variously spreading but not erect or adpressed, there are 25 species, including: L. hypoxidioides, so called because of the likeness to a Hypoxis with hairy (on both sides) leaves. L. rupestris, a dwarf species with interestingly textured leaves. L. socialis, a small species with the bulb exposed and very attractive silvery mottled leaves. L. crispa, a dwarf species with a most attractive crisped leaf margin. My single bulb has multiplied vegetatively into a decorative clump. Alas, no seeds. L. floribunda, a large species, usually with beautifully spotted leaves. The traditional healers in the Eastern Cape use this bulb. L. revoluta, a medium size species, with dull or dark spots on the leaves. It occurs from Port Elizabeth into eastern Africa and as far as India. There are many around Stutterheim in the Eastern Cape. Apparently the bulbs are edible. I hope to post some pics to the wiki tomorrow. References and some further reading: Craib, C. 1998. HERBERTIA Vol. 53: 49-53. Craib, C. and A. Hankey. 1998. HERBERTIA Vol. 53: 54-58. Craib, C. and L. Brown. 1998. HERBERTIA Vol. 53: 59-63. Craib, C. and L. Brown. 1999. HERBERTIA Vol. 54: 43-50. Hankey, A. 2002. Vegetative key to the Genus Ledebouria (Hyacinthaceae) in South Africa. PLANTLIFE No. 27: 16-19. Manning, J. P. Goldblatt and D. Snijman.2002. THE COLOR ENCYCLOPEDIA OF CAPE BULBS: 272-274. Venter, S. 1993. A revision of the genus Ledebouria (Hyacinthaceae) in South Africa. M.Sc. thesis, University of Natal, Pietermaritzburg. Rhoda McMaster African Bulbs (formerly The Croft, Stutterheim, E. Cape) Napier, W. Cape From leo1010@attglobal.net Mon May 10 02:36:45 2004 Message-Id: <409EF8BB.9050206@attglobal.net> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: See you in a while Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 23:36:27 -0400 I'll be gone for a while visiting Madagascar, so if I'm not responding, that's why. I'm unsubscribing after this message for a while. This is a field trip sponsored by the Cactus and Succulent Society of America http://www.cssainc.org The botanists leading the tour are John Lavranos and Gary James. If you want to reach me for the next few days, write me directly. Any bulbs I'll be likely to see in Madagascar this time of year? Leo -- Leo A. Martin Phoenix, Arizona, USA Like cactus and succulents? Central Arizona Cactus and Succulent Society http://www.centralarizonacactus.org From Pekasky@aol.com Mon May 10 02:57:43 2004 Message-Id: <137.2e9fd58b.2dd081e2@aol.com> From: Pekasky@aol.com Subject: See you in a while Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 02:57:38 EDT Lucky you! Who else is going? Have you gone with John L. and Gary James before? I've met John, and he's quite a guy. I'll bet you'll have a GREAT time! I'm so jealous! Marilyn Pekasky From thisisnotgonnawork@yahoo.com Mon May 10 10:49:02 2004 Message-Id: <20040510144900.23233.qmail@web40409.mail.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: See you in a while Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 07:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Enjoy your trip, sounds like a nice place! James Frelichowski "Leo A. Martin" wrote: I'll be gone for a while visiting Madagascar, so if I'm not responding, that's why. I'm unsubscribing after this message for a while. This is a field trip sponsored by the Cactus and Succulent Society of America http://www.cssainc.org The botanists leading the tour are John Lavranos and Gary James. If you want to reach me for the next few days, write me directly. Any bulbs I'll be likely to see in Madagascar this time of year? Leo -- Leo A. Martin Phoenix, Arizona, USA Like cactus and succulents? Central Arizona Cactus and Succulent Society http://www.centralarizonacactus.org _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs From jglatt@ptd.net Mon May 10 11:06:50 2004 Message-Id: <000001c436a0$bf7687a0$8d9a32d1@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: Post-office Iris Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:06:54 -0400 There is a small post office in Baptisttown. Small enough, in fact, that it closes between noon and 1:00 p.m. so the postmistress may have her lunch undisturbed. The previous postmaster was apparently something of a gardener. And when I was there today I found two bearded iris in bloom. One clump has off-white flowers. And there were three clumps of a light blue-violet iris, with that delicious "iris" fragrance I remember from my childhood. The flowers are smaller than modern cultivars, with a yellow beard fading to white where it is more exposed. The scapes are close to 4 feet tall, with four flowers/ buds on a scape. (But they're growing in coarse grass and poison ivy, not much tending in the last 8 or 10 years.) A young man stopping to pick up his mail had a shovel in the back of his pick-up, I had a plastic bag, and the postmistress said to go for it (I think she'll take a some for her own garden.) I know, late June/ July would have been better but the time to take a plant is when you find it. So this will stress the plant, but bearded iris are tough. The half-clump I took will recover. I find that in general, it appears to be the blue range of bearded iris that are more fragrant than other colors. And color is what catalogs focus on. So my question is this: is there any list of fragrant cultivars? Does anyone here have any bearded iris with that delicious floral or grape scent, or sometimes like violets? Would you swap for something I might be growing? Judy, in a nostalgic mood with the blue flag iris of yesterday. From dells@voicenet.com Mon May 10 12:57:10 2004 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 61 Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:57:58 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 61" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER.. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Tsuh Yang Chen: 1. Seed of Sinningia bulbosa 2. Seed of Tacca chantrieri From Arnold Trachtenberg: 3. Hippeastrum unknown, "I was asked by friend to unpot a mass of amaryllis bulbs that had been in the same pot for 35 to 40 years. I potted the large ones and gave them back to the friend and the rest I am sending in to the BX. I saw the flower earlier in the year and it is red with thin petals." From Joyce Miller: 4. Tubers of Sinningia tubiflora, "None has sprouted, but they are ready with a little moisture and heat. The books say they like bottom heat but I am insure that is necessary. They are the progeny of a tuber from Telos Rare Plants, 1999." From Rob Hamilton: 5. Seed of Dahlia coccinea, "It should be a good time to sown in your hemisphere. My plants came from a donation of seed by Uli a several years ago. It has a lovely red single flower from early summer to late autumn here. My plants grow to about 1.2m a little short of the 1.8m in its native Mexico. The slender canes are very strong and stand up well to the strong wind we get at times. This year I have self sown seedlings appearing here and there in a non-invasive way." From Dell Sherk: 6. Seed of Hippeastrum 'Lemon Lime' x H. 'Jewel', pollen dabbing results of the small, fragrant semi-double white with a red throat (Jewel) on to the yellow green Lemon Lime' From Chuck Schwartz: 7. Seed of Sprekelia formosissima x Hippeastrum papilio 8. Seed of Tulbaghia galpinii 9. Seed of Romulea flava 10. Seed of Cyrtanthus brachyscyphus 11. Seed of Gladiolus tristis Thank you, Tsuh Yang, Arnold, Joyce, Rob, and Chuck!! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon May 10 16:27:03 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Alstroemeria philippiana on wiki Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:27:00 -0700 I have just added a picture of Alstroemeria philippiana to the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Alstroemeria I sowed 114 seeds of F & W 10575 last December in my warm dining room, and they surprised me by germinating in nine days. They grew fast, sending long shoots along the window sill. They are each over a metre long, and one has a single flower at the very end, 19 weeks from germination, 20 weeks from sowing. Only a quarter to a third of the seeds seem to have germinated. The whole lot are in a single pot. I moved them up to bigger pots a couple of times, expecting to separate them after they went dormant, but I never expected such speedy growth. This is a desert plant, primed to grow fast as soon as it gets rained on, which is a rare occurrence in its home - Atacama/Coquimbo area, Coastal Semi-Mediterranean Desert Zone. A lot of its leaves are drying. I wonder what it will do after ripening its seed. On the desert, would it die back, leaving its rhizomes waiting years for the next rainfall? Or does it act essentially as an annual? -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From rmsachs@ucdavis.edu Mon May 10 17:14:02 2004 Message-Id: From: "Roy M. Sachs" Subject: Alstroemeria philippiana on wiki Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:18:12 -0700 >I have just added a picture of Alstroemeria philippiana to the wiki: >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Alstroemeria > >I sowed 114 seeds of F & W 10575 last December in my warm dining >room, and they surprised me by germinating in nine days. They grew >fast, sending long shoots along the window sill. They are each over >a metre long, and one has a single flower at the very end, 19 weeks >from germination, 20 weeks from sowing. > >Only a quarter to a third of the seeds seem to have germinated. The >whole lot are in a single pot. I moved them up to bigger pots a >couple of times, expecting to separate them after they went dormant, >but I never expected such speedy growth. > >This is a desert plant, primed to grow fast as soon as it gets >rained on, which is a rare occurrence in its home - Atacama/Coquimbo >area, Coastal Semi-Mediterranean Desert Zone. > >A lot of its leaves are drying. I wonder what it will do after >ripening its seed. On the desert, would it die back, leaving its >rhizomes waiting years for the next rainfall? Or does it act >essentially as an annual? When I grew A. philippiana it behaved as a perennial (in the greenhouse), but I was not able to divide the rhizome mass and clone the species. Roy From JFlintoff@aol.com Mon May 10 21:48:28 2004 Message-Id: <166.2f470ab2.2dd18ae4@aol.com> From: JFlintoff@aol.com Subject: Post-office Iris Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 21:48:20 EDT Judy I wonder if the old blue bearded iris is a form of I. pallida? Many of its forms have a very pleasant grapey fragrance. It is a tough survivor across North America and one occasionally sees it along roadsides and next to foundations of houses long gone. I don't know of any lists of fragrant irises, but the 1939 Check List of the American Iris Society has fragrance codes for many cultivars and species known to the editor Ethal Anson S Peckham. For instance, she correctly codes the old dwarf yellow bearded ' La Perle ' ( 1901 ) as that of lily of the valley. Flowering now ' Afterglow ' ( 1917) has a complex fresh scent with a hint of lemon in the background and ' Yvonne Pellitier ' ( 1916 ) a fragrance that Peckham codes as that of waterlily. As I am only interested in iris species and old bearded hybrids, I cannot comment on modern cultivars, tho there must be many fragrant ones. The rhizomes of many bearded irises, especially clones of x germanica ( such as ' Florentina ' ) and pallida have when drying out a pronounced fragrance of violets. They were ( still? ) used in perfumery as " orris root " . I'm wondering by the way if your off-white iris from the post office may be ' Florentina ' , a greyish white; it too is a real survivor in trying conditions. Do you have any photos? Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washington,USA Zone 8 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue May 11 00:27:13 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040510212319.019f9cd8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Alstroemeria philippiana on wiki Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 21:25:35 -0700 I thought the name of this plant was Alstroemeria phillippii, but anyway, I have been trying to grow it for some years, and as Roy says, it is a perennial. However, as Diane found, it elongates extremely when grown in warm conditions, and for me it does not flower in the conservatory. In the bulb frame, it is very susceptible to frost, and I think I lost 2 of my 3 pots of it last winter, although it flowers much better there and sets seed. I hope the bits I sent off last summer to warmer climes are alive. It is a truly wonderful beauty. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon At 02:18 PM 5/10/2004 -0700, you wrote: >>I have just added a picture of Alstroemeria philippiana to the wiki: >>http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Alstroemeria >> >>I sowed 114 seeds of F & W 10575 last December in my warm dining room, >>and they surprised me by germinating in nine days. They grew fast, >>sending long shoots along the window sill. They are each over a metre >>long, and one has a single flower at the very end, 19 weeks from >>germination, 20 weeks from sowing. >> >>Only a quarter to a third of the seeds seem to have germinated. The whole >>lot are in a single pot. I moved them up to bigger pots a couple of >>times, expecting to separate them after they went dormant, but I never >>expected such speedy growth. >> >>This is a desert plant, primed to grow fast as soon as it gets rained on, >>which is a rare occurrence in its home - Atacama/Coquimbo area, Coastal >>Semi-Mediterranean Desert Zone. >> >>A lot of its leaves are drying. I wonder what it will do after ripening >>its seed. On the desert, would it die back, leaving its rhizomes waiting >>years for the next rainfall? Or does it act essentially as an annual? > > >When I grew A. philippiana it behaved as a perennial (in the greenhouse), >but I was not able to divide the rhizome mass and clone the species. > >Roy >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Theladygardens@aol.com Tue May 11 02:00:11 2004 Message-Id: <1a1.243012f3.2dd1c5e4@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Post-office Iris Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 02:00:04 EDT Judy, many of these are still available, Superstition gardens specializes in historic varieties. Some of the new one have nice fragrances also, some are even named for their fragrance, such as I. spiced ginger and I. nutmeg. The ones used for Orris root, (germanica, florentine and pallida) get the best fragrance from the root after it has been allowed to dry a couple of months, then you shred it. I am planting some in my herb garden for this purpose. Carolyn in Los Gatos From mrgoldbear@yahoo.com Tue May 11 04:38:47 2004 Message-Id: <20040511083846.7064.qmail@web20504.mail.yahoo.com> From: David Sneddon Subject: Louisianna Bulletin Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 01:38:46 -0700 (PDT) Howdy, I'm seeking the following bulletin. If someone should have one they don't want or wish to sell, please send me a private note. Bulletin of Louisiana Society for Horticulral Research vol 3 No 5, 1970-71 Regards, David. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Tue May 11 07:50:14 2004 Message-Id: <20040511115014.6344.qmail@web50103.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Artistry/John Ingram Subject: Pacific BX 61 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 04:50:14 -0700 (PDT) I would like the following: From Chuck Schwartz: 7. Seed of Sprekelia formosissima x Hippeastrum papilio 9. Seed of Romulea flava Thanks, Dell. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. Soon to become www.floralarchitecture.com check it out soon jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From onager@midtown.net Tue May 11 12:28:13 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.2.20040511092657.01b754c8@ms2.midtown.net> From: Joyce Miller Subject: Hippeastrum seed Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:28:01 -0700 Dear John: I would like the following: Hippeastrum seed. Joyce Miller From jglatt@ptd.net Tue May 11 14:30:28 2004 Message-Id: <000001c43786$729aa7e0$059a32d1@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: post office iris again Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:31:07 -0400 I don't know that the post office iris have a connection/ parentage with Iris pallida. The light blue-violet clone was flowering at about 4 feet tall, which seems much taller than the Iris pallida 'Aureo-variegata' & 'Argenteo-variegata' that I occasionally see at nurseries (never see the non-variegated form for sale, too plain vanilla I suppose.) The grayish-white flowered clone has larger flowers than the blue form, and no fragrance. I gave both the sniff test before sauntering in with my mail and request for a start to bring home with me. As far as photos go Jerry, - I am technologically inept when it comes to these things. Taking a digital picture by pushing a button is about my limit. Wouldn't know how to get them onto my computer, let alone the wiki. My husband (my computer guru) was assigned to a job in Kalamazoo, Michigan. In three weeks he'll be home for 3 days, then back to Michigan. I doubt this will have much priority for him. I did a web search for fragrant bearded iris, and came up with the following list: Dark Passion, Fort Apache, Last Chance, Mary Frances, Old Black Magic, Pacific Mist, Scented Bubbles, Stepping Out, Sweet Lena, and Thriller. No mention of color or type of fragrance. Jerry, your list sounds more attractive. For one thing, I find modern cultivars of just about any flower - daylilies as well as bearded iris for example - bloated, swollen, and clumsy, lacking the grace of species and earlier cultivars. And ugly when they age, like used kleenex hanging soggily from the scape rather than withering away in a discreet manner. Judy in New Jersey, where summer has arrive with temperatures of 83° Fahrenheit. At least the trees have leafed out and there's some shade. From JFlintoff@aol.com Tue May 11 15:35:39 2004 Message-Id: <198.295fdc40.2dd28500@aol.com> From: JFlintoff@aol.com Subject: pbs] post office iris again Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:35:28 EDT Judy The common clone of Iris pallida that is so tenacious from former cultivation is much taller than the two variegated forms ( ' Variegata' and ' Argentea ' )-- i.e. about 3 plus feet tall. Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washington,USA Zone 8 From crinum@libero.it Tue May 11 15:58:53 2004 Message-Id: <000801c43792$6d2daf80$64fea8c0@6b6625a8caff485> From: "Alberto Grossi" Subject: Address Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 21:59:08 +0200 Hi to all, I am a new member from Italy. I am interested in Amaryllidaceae above all Crinum and Hymenocallis. I am looking to contact Kevin Preus, for seeds of Hym., but I am not able via e-mail as they come back. Who may help me? Thank you very much. Alberto From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Tue May 11 16:03:58 2004 Message-Id: <1e4.1ff17f38.2dd28baa@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Address Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:03:54 EDT Try: Kevin@Amaryllis-Plus.com Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Tue May 11 16:36:17 2004 Message-Id: <001101c43797$831e31c0$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Address Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:35:34 -0400 Hi Alberto - I can be reached at hyline@tampabay.rr.com Kevin Preuss www.Amaryllis-Plus.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alberto Grossi" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:59 PM Subject: [pbs] Address Hi to all, I am a new member from Italy. I am interested in Amaryllidaceae above all Crinum and Hymenocallis. I am looking to contact Kevin Preus, for seeds of Hym., but I am not able via e-mail as they come back. Who may help me? Thank you very much. Alberto From boutin@goldrush.com Tue May 11 23:54:36 2004 Message-Id: <003601c437d4$c954d170$4e3d7143@boutin> From: "boutin" Subject: TOW - Ledebouria Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 20:54:11 -0700 Dear Rhoda, Thanks for your introduction to Ledebouria. I've attempted several crosses this Spring with Ledebouria: L. galpinii X L. socialis , L. rupestris X L. socialis, and L. crispa X L. socialis. With each I've also tried the reverse cross. Galpinii X socialis yielded two seed, and there is now one seedlings. It remains to be seen if it is a hybrid. Rupestris X socialis yielded 4 seeds, and these have just been planted. Of about 6 differing clones of L. socialis I grow only a couple seem to be fertile, even when intercrossed. Ledebouria rupestris displays a valuable characteristic in having very long lasting flowers starting a grayed purple and aging green, but with an attractive from. I see you have added a new Ledebouria image to the Wiki, L. species growing from a hole in a vertical rock face. Eastern Cape. Hope you give us some idea of scale. Look forward to additional images. Thanks for all the time and effort. Fred Boutin Tuolumne, California Where I have to grow Ledebouria as houseplants. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron McMaster" To: Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 2:39 PM Subject: [pbs] TOW - Ledebouria > The genus Ledebouria (Hyacinthaceae) in South Africa contains about 40 species, with only two confined to the winter rainfall region, three overlapping winter and summer rainfall regions, and the rest confined to the summer rainfall region. The unpublished revision done in 1993 by S. Venter is the most recent, but it is still not easy to use especially when the bulbs are not in flower. In October 2002 a vegetative key was published by A. Hankey (following Venter's revision) which is more user-friendly. > > Ledebouria species are from a few cms to about 30 cms tall, usually having interesting or decorative leaves which can make appealing pot subjects, especially the dwarf species. Their flowers are arranged on a floppy spike mostly appearing in early spring before the grass is up. The individual flowers are not large or showy, but when examined closely they are exquisite with various colourings of mauve, purple and pink (sometimes almost luminous) on the stamens and pedicels. They usually like to grow amongst rocks or in grassveld. They go dormant in the dry winters, and can tolerate a degree or two of frost. In the montane grassland species, they would get a bit of winter moisture from mist or the occasional light shower/snowfall. > > The seeds of most of the summer rainfall species are usually ripe by early summer and ready to germinate immediately with no fuss. I have found a clone or single plants do not set seed. They seem to need cross-pollination to produce seeds. Does anyone know how easily they would hybridise? > > Hankey divides the South African species into three Sections. > > In Section A with leaves erect (majority on an axis closer to 90 than 45 degrees), there are eight species, including: > L. viscosa which has sand particles sticking to the leaves. > L. dolomitica and L. cooperi which may both sometimes have more floppy than upright leaves and are therefore also listed in Section C. > L. sandersonii can be very confusing with very variable leaves, and is listed in all three Sections! > > In Section B with leaves adpressed to the soil surface, there are seven species, including: > L. galpinii, a delightful miniature with purplish-green textured leaves, and a beautiful little cluster of pink flowers in early spring. > L. ovatifolia, which occurs to tropical Africa and Sri Lanka. > L. ovalifolia (confusing with the previous name!!) which I would include in Section C because my plants have semi-upright leaves, definitlely not pressed to the ground. Could it be a hybrid? This one is from the winter rainfall region with a summer dormancy, or evergreen in my experience growing it here in Napier (the Overberg region of the Western Cape). > > > In Section C with leaves variously spreading but not erect or adpressed, there are 25 species, including: > L. hypoxidioides, so called because of the likeness to a Hypoxis with hairy (on both sides) leaves. > L. rupestris, a dwarf species with interestingly textured leaves. > L. socialis, a small species with the bulb exposed and very attractive silvery mottled leaves. > L. crispa, a dwarf species with a most attractive crisped leaf margin. My single bulb has multiplied vegetatively into a decorative clump. Alas, no seeds. > L. floribunda, a large species, usually with beautifully spotted leaves. The traditional healers in the Eastern Cape use this bulb. > L. revoluta, a medium size species, with dull or dark spots on the leaves. It occurs from Port Elizabeth into eastern Africa and as far as India. There are many around Stutterheim in the Eastern Cape. Apparently the bulbs are edible. > > I hope to post some pics to the wiki tomorrow. > > References and some further reading: > > Craib, C. 1998. HERBERTIA Vol. 53: 49-53. > Craib, C. and A. Hankey. 1998. HERBERTIA Vol. 53: 54-58. > Craib, C. and L. Brown. 1998. HERBERTIA Vol. 53: 59-63. > Craib, C. and L. Brown. 1999. HERBERTIA Vol. 54: 43-50. > Hankey, A. 2002. Vegetative key to the Genus Ledebouria (Hyacinthaceae) in South Africa. PLANTLIFE No. 27: 16-19. > Manning, J. P. Goldblatt and D. Snijman.2002. THE COLOR ENCYCLOPEDIA OF CAPE BULBS: 272-274. > Venter, S. 1993. A revision of the genus Ledebouria (Hyacinthaceae) in South Africa. M.Sc. thesis, University of Natal, Pietermaritzburg. > > > Rhoda McMaster > African Bulbs (formerly The Croft, Stutterheim, E. Cape) > Napier, W. Cape > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Wed May 12 03:37:41 2004 Message-Id: <006601c437f4$00549e70$1fdd403e@John> From: Subject: TOW - Ledebouria Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 07:07:14 +0100 Rhoda McMaster's interesting introduction to Ledebouria concentrated on South African species, but the genus ranges through eastern Africa to the Arabian peninsula and across to India (a frequent distribution pattern for predominantly African genera e.g. Aloe, Acacia (African types) and Pelargonium (as far as Iraq only)). I have seen what I believe to be L. kirkii in grassland on the slopes of Kilimanjaro in Tanzania. It has a big bulb (8 cm diameter) that sits exposed from the soil surface and rather broad leaves that are heavily spotted in the usual way. The inflorescence was also the rather 'standard' Ledebouria type. In Socotra grows the extraordinary L. grandifolia, with two large (30 cm long 10 cm wide) leaves tightly adpressed to the ground or rock, as they seem to grow quite frequently in rock crevices. They are bright green, with mottling only at the base on the lower surface. Unfortunately it was not in flower when I visited the island. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Gardens Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk From dells@voicenet.com Wed May 12 06:28:22 2004 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 61 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 06:30:18 -0400 I have received your order. Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From dells@voicenet.com Wed May 12 06:43:36 2004 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 61 CLOSED Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 06:44:44 -0400 Dear All, Thank you for your orders. Packages should go out after the weekend. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From dells@voicenet.com Wed May 12 08:45:59 2004 Message-Id: <200405121245.i4CCjvFI028990@email2.voicenet.com> From: Subject: Pacific BX 61 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:45:57 -0400 (EDT) Whoops! Sorry about that. On Wed, 12 May 2004 06:30:18 -0400, Dell Sherk wrote : > > I have received your order. > > Best wishes, > Dell > > --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > From ang.por@aliceposta.it Wed May 12 18:12:48 2004 Message-Id: <000901c4386d$f91dffa0$f91b3152@computer> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Colchicum byzantinum sterility Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 00:10:44 +0200 Dear All, I have always known that Colchicum byzantinum was a sterile plant, likely to be an hybrid of C.cilicicum or bivonae. But, with my great surprise, I have found a few seeds, while I was cleaning out the messy tuft of yellowing leaves this morning. Is this a lucky event? I would like to hear comments from our colchicum experts :-) many thanks Angelo From africanbulbs@haznet.co.za Thu May 13 02:12:27 2004 Message-Id: <004401c438b3$fc5ef700$7e6827c4@ecuser62> From: "Cameron McMaster" Subject: TOW - Ledebouria Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:26:31 +0200 Fred, it will be interesting to hear the results of your crosses, especially what new leaf characteristics may appear. The image of the Ledebouria sp. growing out of hole in a vertical rock - the hole is about 3 cm in diameter. The Ledebouria seems to be quite old and is a bit stunted I would think. John, unfortunately I couldn't get hold of literature on species not occuring in South Africa. They seem to be very adaptable. There must be some other member who have seen them in other countries? I will be away for four days so the further images of Ledebouria that I want to upload will have to wait until Monday, sorry about the delay. Rhoda Napier, W. Cape From malkredwood@xtra.co.nz Thu May 13 14:49:15 2004 Message-Id: <001301c4391a$df1d7880$da5237d2@malkredwood> From: "Malcolm Redwood" Subject: membership Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 06:48:20 +1200 Dear Pamela, Pease ignore my last email.As I have just received a form with the Herbertia.Thank you. Regards, Malcolm From crinum@libero.it Thu May 13 15:14:11 2004 Message-Id: <003501c4391e$888c8890$64fea8c0@6b6625a8caff485> From: "Alberto Grossi" Subject: Cyclamen Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 21:14:36 +0200 Hi to all, looking for a book about Cyclamen, I have found three ones written by Christopher Grey-Wilson: - Cyclamen: a guide for gardeners, horticulturists and botanists (2003) - Cyclamen: a guide for gardeners, horticulturists and botanists (1997) - The genus cyclamen: a Kew magazine monograph (1988). Who may tell me the difference between them? Thank you . Alberto From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri May 14 11:34:07 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040513193413.01543c00@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Cyclamen Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 19:37:05 -0700 Alberto Grossi asked, >looking for a book about Cyclamen, I have found three ones written by >Christopher Grey-Wilson: >- Cyclamen: a guide for gardeners, horticulturists and botanists (2003) >- Cyclamen: a guide for gardeners, horticulturists and botanists (1997) >- The genus cyclamen: a Kew magazine monograph (1988). >Who may tell me the difference between them? All three books have the same basic contents, but were revised for the new editions in each case. Thus, the 2003 book gives Grey-Wilson's most recent view of the genus. It should be noted that some of the classifications he proposes are somewhat controversial among Cyclamen specialists. Nonetheless, there is a great deal of useful information in this book. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From scamp@earthlink.net Thu May 13 23:54:40 2004 Message-Id: <410-22004551435440308@earthlink.net> From: "Christine Council" Subject: membership Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 23:54:40 -0400 Hello: I am Chris and am a new member at: scamp@earthlink.net Cheers, Chris > [Original Message] > From: Malcolm Redwood > To: > Date: 5/14/2004 2:48:59 PM > Subject: [pbs] re:membership > > Dear Pamela, > > Pease ignore my last email.As I have just received a form with the Herbertia.Thank you. > > Regards, > Malcolm > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From crinum@libero.it Fri May 14 12:20:05 2004 Message-Id: From: "crinum@libero.it" Subject: Cyclamen Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 18:20:04 +0200 Many thanks. Alberto. ---------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : "Pacific Bulb Society" pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Thu, 13 May 2004 19:37:05 -0700 Subject : Re: [pbs] Cyclamen > Alberto Grossi asked, > >looking for a book about Cyclamen, I have found three ones written by > >Christopher Grey-Wilson: > >- Cyclamen: a guide for gardeners, horticulturists and botanists (2003) > >- Cyclamen: a guide for gardeners, horticulturists and botanists (1997) > >- The genus cyclamen: a Kew magazine monograph (1988). > >Who may tell me the difference between them? > > All three books have the same basic contents, but were revised for the new > editions in each case. Thus, the 2003 book gives Grey-Wilson's most recent > view of the genus. > > It should be noted that some of the classifications he proposes are > somewhat controversial among Cyclamen specialists. Nonetheless, there is a > great deal of useful information in this book. > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon, USA > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From plants_man@bigpond.com Sat May 15 19:16:01 2004 Message-Id: <00b901c43ad2$86d1b510$38fa8690@userdamexligce> From: "Daryl Geoghegan" Subject: Our precious heritage Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:14:53 +1000 Greetings on this fine Sunday morning. I hope you are all well and happy. I have recently uploaded a new page to our site. It has nothing to do with bulbs, sorry. It has everything to do with the plight in Tibet. It also has everything to do with our day to day life and how we percive our brothers and sisters here on earth. Our Ancient Spiritual Jewel was sent to me via an email and I though it deserved to be presented to more people. Best wishes, Dash. Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan, Mainly Amaryllids Garden,P O Box 173, Barnawartha,Victoria,3688, Australia. +61 02 60267377,Mobile 0429 621 612 Visit my web site @ http://www.mainlyamaryllidsgarden.com ------------------------------------------------- ABA Web Site: http://www.ausbulbs.org Checkout the bulb images at http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/ From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Sun May 16 05:37:48 2004 Message-Id: <1cd.20fcc8b2.2dd89067@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: TOW- Paris, Daiswa and Kinugasa Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 05:37:43 EDT Paris, Daiswa and Kinugasa Recent publications have split Paris into Paris, Daiswa and Kinugasa. For simplicity (and habit) I will refer to all of the non-trillium Trilliaceae as Paris. Paris are perennial herbs arising from a rhizome that may be thin or tuberous. Atop a simple stem sits a solitary whorl of from 4 to 22+ leaves. Solitary, bisexual flowers sit atop a simple flower stalk The green or red ovary may have one chamber or 4+. One chambered plants are also called Daiswa. The style base may be purplish, red, white or yellow. Seeds may or may not have an aril and can be red, white or brown. Tepals are arranged in 2 whorls of 3-8: outer ones are green, rarely white; inner ones may be absent and can be green, purplish or yellow-green. Stamens are arranged in 2-3 whorls, filaments are flat and narrow, free portion of the connective may be relatively long, short, or globose. Paris are native to Eurasian temperate, deciduous woodlands. They prefer mildly acid to acidic, moisture retentive, rich, light, well drained woodsy soils with deciduous leaf mulch in the fall. They may go dormant in the late summer and resent transplanting. Best in USDA zones 5-8, impossible in tropical Florida, very difficult in Southern California or the desert Southwest. Susan Farmer’s searchable DELTA dataset may be found at: http://flora.huh.harvard.edu:8080/actkey/actkey.jsp?setId=3001 Taxon list and links: http://flora.huh.harvard.edu:8080/actkey/taxon_group_view.jsp?taxonGroupId=300 A key to the 20+ Chinese species may be found at the online Flora of China at: http://flora.huh.harvard.edu:8080/flora/browse.do?flora_id=2&taxon_id=124055 Trillium-L listserv at: http://listserv.surfnet.nl/archives/trillium-l.html Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From mrgoldbear@yahoo.com Sun May 16 07:23:22 2004 Message-Id: <20040516112317.41551.qmail@web20512.mail.yahoo.com> From: David Sneddon Subject: Web Site Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 04:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Howdy, By profession I'm a security/audit person who works in the computer industry, but I rarely get to sit down and play. Recently, and I believe it was on the PBS web site, I read that you can write and have hosted your own web pages (at Geocities). Well I was skeptical about the quality with the compusory ad, or the difficulty. Anyway I gave it a try www.geocities.com/mrgoldbear/index and in one day came up with this. Thanks to the person who communicated this idea -it motivated me enough that I actually did something about it instead of thinking about it. Now I have a site. Its amateurish, but for me it helps me raise awareness around bulbs so I'm happy. BTW it's easy to do with a number of templates provided (though I ended up doing it manually), and the ad is not very intrusive in my opinion. Regards, David. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. From voltaire@islandnet.com Sun May 16 15:11:33 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: TOW- Paris, Daiswa and Kinugasa Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 12:11:31 -0700 I have had no success with Paris, either bought as plants or from seed, which has never germinated. I have bought Paris over several years, in person, from visits to several specialist nurseries in British Columbia and Washington, usually in flower, and looking very healthy, but have none to show for it. Other plants that supposedly like the same conditions as Paris, bought from the same nurseries, at the same times, have thrived. I have small colonies of several species each of Disporum, Epipactis, Podophyllum, Polygonatum, and Trillium. Why is Paris different? -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Sun May 16 18:55:39 2004 Message-Id: <000e01c43b98$ea23d0a0$84e02052@garden> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: New UK Wildflower Website Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 23:55:39 +0100 Dear All, Just a line to inform any UK ex. pats, and everyone else how might be interested for that matter; that I'm making a microsite of images of British Native Wildflowers that occur in my local area of Plymouth, England. Obviously the pics aren't all bulbs but I've tried to include as many bulbs as possible, and a few wild orchids. Basically there's not a lot in flower in the garden here at the moment, so really the new site is an exercise in getting to know a new digital camera before more bulbs start flowering this year. See. http://www.theafricangarden.com/bwf/ and enjoy. Best Wishes, Dave The African Garden NCCPG National Plant Reference Collections of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe, Tulbaghia and Amaryllis 96 Wasdale Gardens, Estover, Plymouth, Devon. England. PL6 8TW Tel: 44 (0)1752 301402 www.theafricangarden.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.683 / Virus Database: 445 - Release Date: 12/05/2004 From plants_man@bigpond.com Sun May 16 20:29:46 2004 Message-Id: <003f01c43ba5$faab00d0$68fa8690@userdamexligce> From: "Daryl Geoghegan" Subject: New UK Wildflower Website Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:29:12 +1000 Hi Dave, nice site, well done! Best wishes, Dash. Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan, Mainly Amaryllids Garden,P O Box 173, Barnawartha,Victoria,3688, Australia. +61 02 60267377,Mobile 0429 621 612 Visit my web site @ http://www.mainlyamaryllidsgarden.com ------------------------------------------------- ABA Web Site: http://www.ausbulbs.org Checkout the bulb images at http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Fenwick" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 8:55 AM Subject: [pbs] New UK Wildflower Website > Dear All, > Just a line to inform any UK ex. pats, and everyone else how might be > interested for that matter; that I'm making a microsite of images of British > Native Wildflowers that occur in my local area of Plymouth, England. > Obviously the pics aren't all bulbs but I've tried to include as many bulbs > as possible, and a few wild orchids. > > Basically there's not a lot in flower in the garden here at the moment, so > really the new site is an exercise in getting to know a new digital camera > before more bulbs start flowering this year. > > See. > http://www.theafricangarden.com/bwf/ > > and enjoy. > > Best Wishes, > Dave > > The African Garden > NCCPG National Plant Reference Collections of > Crocosmia with Chasmanthe, Tulbaghia and Amaryllis > 96 Wasdale Gardens, > Estover, Plymouth, Devon. England. > PL6 8TW > Tel: 44 (0)1752 301402 > www.theafricangarden.com > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.683 / Virus Database: 445 - Release Date: 12/05/2004 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon May 17 02:55:00 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Lilium mackliniae photo Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 23:54:58 -0700 I am so excited! Years ago when I was reading the plant collecting books written by Frank Kingdon-Ward, I read about the dainty, nodding pink flowers of a Nomocharis that he found on a mountainside in northern Burma. This was later considered to be a lily, and named for his wife, using her maiden name of Macklin. This week one is blooming under an apple tree in my garden, six years after sowing the seed. It is lovely! So different from the usual big bright lilies that are usually grown. I have posted a picture of it to the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Lilium -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From Theladygardens@aol.com Mon May 17 03:32:11 2004 Message-Id: <9d.486ee3c5.2dd9c474@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Lilium mackliniae photo Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 03:32:04 EDT Thanks for sharing I would be excited to have such a beauty blooming in my garden also. Enjoy and let us know how long the bloom lasts. Carolyn in Los Gatos, currently in Oregon From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Mon May 17 06:33:01 2004 Message-Id: <1d8.21ad1af3.2dd9eeda@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: TOW- Paris, Daiswa and Kinugasa Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 06:32:58 EDT In a message dated 5/16/2004 3:11:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, voltaire@islandnet.com writes: I have had no success with Paris, either bought as plants or from seed, which has never germinated Diane: I have found that Paris resent transplanting, sometimes sulking for several years before putting out any growth. Fresh seed germinates well, an unknown species sown in in 1999 bloomed this year. Some have recommended that the fleshy arils be removed, I sow straight from the capsule with no cleaning. Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Mon May 17 09:34:40 2004 Message-Id: <915BA069E411684D80859B117CBFE57219ADFC@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Lilium mackliniae photo Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 08:34:55 -0500 Diane: Very nice lily. Well worth the wait. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: Diane Whitehead [mailto:voltaire@islandnet.com] Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 1:55 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Lilium mackliniae photo I am so excited! Years ago when I was reading the plant collecting books written by Frank Kingdon-Ward, I read about the dainty, nodding pink flowers of a Nomocharis that he found on a mountainside in northern Burma. This was later considered to be a lily, and named for his wife, using her maiden name of Macklin. This week one is blooming under an apple tree in my garden, six years after sowing the seed. It is lovely! So different from the usual big bright lilies that are usually grown. I have posted a picture of it to the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Lilium -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Mon May 17 13:22:13 2004 Message-Id: <40A8FAA9.BF47A6B8@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Lilium mackliniae photo Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:47:21 -0700 Dear All: So pleased to hear that Lilium mackliniae is giving pleasure to many. It recalls to mind the time I met Kingdon Ward, I think it was in 1955 and he told me about discovering it, a great man, ramrod straight, gray hair and he was so gracious in taking time to talk to me. he came up to me, thrust out his hand and said " I am Kingdon Ward", how does one reply to such a man? I simply said I am John Bryan and we chatted for quite a while. Cheers, John E. Bryan Theladygardens@aol.com wrote: > > Thanks for sharing I would be excited to have such a beauty blooming in my > garden also. Enjoy and let us know how long the bloom lasts. > Carolyn in Los Gatos, currently in Oregon > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Tue May 18 19:38:12 2004 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: Bulb Dinner 6/19/04 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:37:53 -0700 Dear all, The next PBS bulb dinner and auction is scheduled for Saturday, June 19, 4pm-9pm. Please mark your calendars. Everyone is invited regardless of whether he/she is a member of PBS or not. You are all welcome to bring your spouses and/or any guests you wish. Please notify me if you will be coming so we can calculate the food requirements. DINNER: Pot Luck (I will coordinate with each of you privately as you respond that you would like to attend). RARE BULB AUCTION: Several members will be donating rare (and not-so-rare) bulbs to be auctioned off. If you have any bulbs that you would like to donate, please do bring them - in pots or bare root - just make sure they are labeled if you know what they are. CULTURAL Q & A: We will have a panel of several experts for a cultural question and answer period before the auction. Bring all your bulb-culture questions. If you have unidentified plants/bulbs, you might bring them too, or photos, and the experts will be able to help you identify what you have. LOCATION: 307 Calle Sonora, San Clemente, CA 92672. Cell ph# 949-939-7801 anytime. Or office 949-369-8588 days. I can pick up emails at both locations. Cathy Craig EA From lynelda@netspeed.com.au Wed May 19 02:27:27 2004 Message-Id: From: "Lyn Edwards" Subject: TOW Paris, Daiswa and Kinugasa Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:27:24 +1000 I was hoping to see more from members talking about growing Paris, these are very special as far as I'm concerned. I first saw Parisat shows on a visit to the U.K. a few years ago and set out to find if was available here Australia. Eventually I found Paris quadrifolia listed by two mail order sources, one a large concern and the other very small. I lashed out as it was anything but cheap and ordered one plant from each of these. I should say that these were both only allowing one per customer.These arrived bare rooted. After reading all the horror stories about plants not growing the first year after planting and also not growing at all I was very happy to find both grew well and flowered in their first season in shade under Japanese maples, what a delight that was. They continue to grow and flower, they have not increased very much but I am just happy to have them,I seriously doubt they have to contend with conditions like ours in their native habitats,we are in drought still and no sign of relief yet,Water restrictions have been in force here for a long time and only likely to become more restrictive if we don't get good rain soon, Lyn Edwards Canberra approx. zone 8 USDA From lynelda@netspeed.com.au Wed May 19 06:36:59 2004 Message-Id: From: "Lyn Edwards" Subject: reTOw Paris, Daiswa and Kinugasa-correction Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:36:45 +1000 What I meant to say was Paris podophylla, not quadrifolia,reading the wrong line in my list, Lyn Edwards From leo1010@attglobal.net Thu May 20 02:52:34 2004 Message-Id: <40AC2B77.7080703@attglobal.net> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: See you in a while Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:52:23 -0400 I'm leaving tomorrow morning for almost a month in Madagascar on a trip sponsored by the Cactus and Succulent Society of America. It will be led by John Lavranos and Gary James. http://www.cssainc.org I'm unsubscribing after this message, so See You Later. Leo -- Leo A. Martin Phoenix, Arizona, USA Like cactus and succulents? Central Arizona Cactus and Succulent Society http://www.centralarizonacactus.org From samclan@redshift.com Thu May 20 00:07:51 2004 Message-Id: <40AC2FAC.40903@redshift.com> From: Shirley Meneice Subject: Bulb Dinner 6/19/04 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 21:10:20 -0700 Widsh I were a 100 miles closer. Shirley Meneice Cathy Craig wrote: > Dear all, > > The next PBS bulb dinner and auction is scheduled for Saturday, June > 19, 4pm-9pm. Please mark your calendars. > > Everyone is invited regardless of whether he/she is a member of PBS or > not. You are all welcome to bring your spouses and/or any guests you > wish. > > Please notify me if you will be coming so we can calculate the food > requirements. > > DINNER: Pot Luck (I will coordinate with each of you privately as you > respond that you would like to attend). > > RARE BULB AUCTION: Several members will be donating rare (and > not-so-rare) bulbs to be auctioned off. If you have any bulbs that you > would like to donate, please do bring them - in pots or bare root - > just make sure they are labeled if you know what they are. > > CULTURAL Q & A: We will have a panel of several experts for a cultural > question and answer period before the auction. Bring all your > bulb-culture questions. If you have unidentified plants/bulbs, you > might bring them too, or photos, and the experts will be able to help > you identify what you have. > > LOCATION: 307 Calle Sonora, San Clemente, CA 92672. Cell ph# > 949-939-7801 anytime. Or office 949-369-8588 days. I can pick up > emails at both locations. > > Cathy Craig EA > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From Dpescadera@aol.com Thu May 20 10:35:10 2004 Message-Id: <80.c4d3506.2dde1c0e@aol.com> From: Dpescadera@aol.com Subject: Bulb Dinner 6/19/04 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:34:54 EDT WOW! What an evening. Wish it were in Monterey. Best, Diana From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu May 20 11:43:26 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040520084004.00bc9e80@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Leucojum trichophyllum Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:43:21 -0700 Rodger Whitlock asked, >Anybody had much luck with Leucojum trichophyllum? I have a few >seedlings, but they're not doing well. My sense is that I have them >in the wrong conditions, quite possibly the soil they're potted in. > >In fact, mine do so poorly that I really don't even have a good sense >of what their growth cycle is like. This plant -- both the white and pink forms, the pink being more robust -- grows extremely well in my bulb frames. It tolerates summer drying but does not seem to require severe drying. It produces a great many bulblets, which grow to flowering size in about 2 years. It can be crowded and flower well. My plants are in covered but not heated frames in full sun, repotted every other year into very gritty soil and fed once in fall and 3 times in spring with soluble fertilizer. I grew the white ones from seed and bought the original stock of the pink ones from an English source. I have tried them in the rock garden but they haven't succeeded there. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu May 20 15:24:21 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Dwarf Strelitzia - Slightly OT Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:09:28 -0500 Dear All; Excuse the slightly off topic note, but comes from the delusional belief that everything grows on the Pacific coast and probably someone on this list grows it. I fell in love with Strelitzia juncea on a visit to Huntington Gardens (Clivia Symposium - there's a connection) and would love to grow it, but it is awfully large. I found a source for a Dwarf Strelitzia juncea and wonder if anyone has experience with it. Does it bloom well? How big does it actually get? Since it requires an order from S. Africa it might be an investment and I'd like to know if this is a true dwarf or even if available in the US anywhere. Or anyone interested in splitting the costs if we order 2 or 3? Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From theafricangarden@blueyonder.co.uk Thu May 20 16:39:44 2004 Message-Id: <000401c43eaa$96be8fd0$84e02052@garden> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Dwarf Strelitzia - Slightly OT Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:39:45 +0100 Hi Jim, >>>>I found a source for a Dwarf Strelitzia juncea and wonder if anyone has experience with it. Does it bloom well? How big does it actually get? Since it requires an order from S. Africa it might be an investment and I'd like to know if this is a true dwarf or even if available in the US anywhere. Jim, if you're talking about S. juncea 'Elliott's Knee High', which comes from SA, its leaves are 30cm high and it flowers to 40cm. I've had a piece for three years now and it still hasn't flowered, but this might be because it is kept in a cold greenhouse and it can get temps as low as -3C. Leaves still persist at these temps and are not damaged. It looks be be quite a slow grower though but obviously will make an absolutely stunning pot plant one day; and of course it is very much a talking point in the garden. For all I know about it, I'd say it was an excellant conservatory plant and would be extremely useful outside in states with warm winters. Best Wishes, Dave (Plymouth, UK) The African Garden NCCPG National Plant Reference Collections of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe, Tulbaghia and Amaryllis 96 Wasdale Gardens, Estover, Plymouth, Devon. England. PL6 8TW Tel: 44 (0)1752 301402 www.theafricangarden.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Waddick" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:09 PM Subject: [pbs] Dwarf Strelitzia - Slightly OT > Dear All; > Excuse the slightly off topic note, but comes from the > delusional belief that everything grows on the Pacific coast and > probably someone on this list grows it. > > I fell in love with Strelitzia juncea on a visit to > Huntington Gardens (Clivia Symposium - there's a connection) and > would love to grow it, but it is awfully large. I found a source for > a Dwarf Strelitzia juncea and wonder if anyone has experience with > it. Does it bloom well? How big does it actually get? Since it > requires an order from S. Africa it might be an investment and I'd > like to know if this is a true dwarf or even if available in the US > anywhere. > > Or anyone interested in splitting the costs if we order 2 or 3? > > Thanks Jim W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > E-fax 419-781-8594 > > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.683 / Virus Database: 445 - Release Date: 12/05/2004 From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu May 20 18:09:06 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Dwarf Strelitzia - Slightly OT Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:09:16 -0500 >Jim, if you're talking about S. juncea 'Elliott's Knee High', which comes >from SA, its leaves are 30cm high and it flowers to 40cm. I've had a piece >for three years now and it still hasn't flowered, but this might be because >it is kept in a cold greenhouse and it can get temps as low as -3C. Leaves >still persist at these temps and are not damaged. > Dear Dave; No cv name attached to the plant in question. It sounds very interesting and it should do better here at least in summer with our heat. Anyone else know this plant? Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From ang.por@aliceposta.it Fri May 21 15:14:00 2004 Message-Id: <001201c43f67$74887da0$480a3352@computer> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: dwarf Strelitzia juncea Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:11:43 +0200 I have seen that site and I was also tempted to order it, but indeed I am a bit in doubt if it is actually a dwarf form or not. I do have some seedlings of the normal juncea, so I can sleep quiet for now ! Also, time ago I saw Morgan&Thompson selling a dwarf strain of S.reginae, which they stated ' it doen't exceed 90cm'. I wonder if this size is dwarf, as a reginae in pot won't grow more than that. John Ingram had/has plants of juncea for sale, so maybe he could know more. sorry for the OT :-) Angelo Porcelli Italy From boutin@goldrush.com Sat May 22 12:18:32 2004 Message-Id: <002301c44018$63f96ce0$953d7143@boutin> From: "boutin" Subject: TOW - Ledebouria Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:18:15 -0700 Dear Rhoda, Thanks for the images of Ledebouria floribunda and two of L. species. The image of L. galpinii is not yet accessible. Can you tell us something about the dwarf species from Amatola Mountains grassland? How long are the leaves in the image and how tall the inflorescences? Does this species truly grow amidst grass or does it occupy a special habitat in the grassland? Is it rhizomatous like some forms of L. cooperi? Or are the bulbs just gregarious? So far the seedlings of possible L. galpinii X L. socialis are just green. But then seedlings of L. socialis forms with heavily marked and colored leaves are green until the third or fourth leaf. Fred Tuolumne, California ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron McMaster" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:26 PM Subject: [pbs] TOW - Ledebouria > Fred, it will be interesting to hear the results of your crosses, especially what new leaf characteristics may appear. The image of the Ledebouria sp. growing out of hole in a vertical rock - the hole is about 3 cm in diameter. The Ledebouria seems to be quite old and is a bit stunted I would think. > > John, unfortunately I couldn't get hold of literature on species not occuring in South Africa. They seem to be very adaptable. There must be some other member who have seen them in other countries? > > I will be away for four days so the further images of Ledebouria that I want to upload will have to wait until Monday, sorry about the delay. > > Rhoda > Napier, W. Cape > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From khixson@nu-world.com Sat May 22 17:49:36 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20040522124425.00882064@pop.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Begonia Leaf Spotting Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 12:44:25 -0700 Dear Members: This may be the wrong forum, but I've a question about what governs the leaf spotting on begonias, specifically Begonia grandis alba. Last fall I saved some seed pods and the seed in them. (I also gathered the bulbils, but since I forgot until after the first frost, when they were planted, they rotted, so I don't want to talk about that.) The seed was duly planted this spring in a pot under flourescent lights, covered with a plastic bag, and left. In due course, seedlings appeared, and there are now about ten pots with one or two small plants each. When the fourth leaf appeared, (on each seedling) it was spotted with silver in varying degree-some spots more than an eighth of an inch in diameter, some tiny pinpoint spots. Well, that does appear in Begonias, and I was intrigued, since the parent had never had anything but plain green leaves. The seed was open pollenated, but the only other begonias in the area were some tuberous begonia hybrids, which themselves do not have spots. The seedlings were transplanted, mostly to individual pots, although a few were put two to a pot. They've been fertilized, so the new leaves are darker green and of course larger. Most of these seedlings now have a fifth leaf, and all are plain green with no spotting. So, the question is, what controls the spotting? Light level? They're still under flourescent lights. Fertilizer? Phase of the moon? Whether or not I've been a good boy? Incidentally, Begonia grandis is normally hardy here, though I try to mulch in the fall. The parent plant, outside all winter in the ground, now has a few full size leaves, very pale green, so it has just been fertilized. Ken western Oregon Z7 From piabinha@yahoo.com Sat May 22 20:21:41 2004 Message-Id: <20040523002126.60762.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Scadoxus from Gabon Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 17:21:26 -0700 (PDT) http://persoon.si.edu/plofweek/pltofwk.cfm __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Sat May 22 20:26:17 2004 Message-Id: <40AFEFA7.7010208@bulbmeister.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Scadoxus from Gabon Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 19:26:15 -0500 Is this really a Scadoxus? It's beautiful. piaba wrote: >http://persoon.si.edu/plofweek/pltofwk.cfm > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year >http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin The Bulbmeister 4407 Town Vu Road Bentonville, AR 72712 479-366-4968 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b E-mail: mailto:bulbmeister@bulbmeister.com Website: http://www.bulbmeister.com/ Forum: http://www.bulbmeister.com/forum/ From plants_man@bigpond.com Sat May 22 20:31:58 2004 Message-Id: <003501c4405d$47845e90$7dfa8690@userdamexligce> From: "Daryl Geoghegan" Subject: Scadoxus from Gabon Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 10:31:23 +1000 What a tremendous bloom! Thanks for sharing. Best wishes, Dash. Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan, Mainly Amaryllids Garden,P O Box 173, Barnawartha,Victoria,3688, Australia. +61 02 60267377,Mobile 0429 621 612 Visit my web site @ http://www.mainlyamaryllidsgarden.com ------------------------------------------------- ABA Web Site: http://www.ausbulbs.org Checkout the bulb images at http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "piaba" To: "Bulbs" ; "PBulbS" Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 10:21 AM Subject: [pbs] Scadoxus from Gabon > http://persoon.si.edu/plofweek/pltofwk.cfm > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year > http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From totototo@pacificcoast.net Thu May 20 01:22:07 2004 Message-Id: <200405200522.i4K5M4J8017626@buffy.pacificcoast.net> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Leucojum trichophyllum Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 22:25:53 -800 Anybody had much luck with Leucojum trichophyllum? I have a few seedlings, but they're not doing well. My sense is that I have them in the wrong conditions, quite possibly the soil they're potted in. In fact, mine do so poorly that I really don't even have a good sense of what their growth cycle is like. It's a shame, since I have the rest of the genus well in hand (with w-a-y too much L. nicaeense). -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sun May 23 12:26:21 2004 Message-Id: From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Albuca shawii Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 12:26:14 EDT Hi, I am having great luck with this plant, it seems to be as easy to grow as has been suggested--it went through a damp, wet winter in a pot outside and has emerged in fine shape, blooming and generally happy. I'm looking for a second plant, so that I can eventually set seeds (I'm guessing it is self-incompatible). Please write privately if you have a plant to trade for some odds and ends. Cordially, Joe, Conroe, TX hot and muggy now, time to bring in the winter bloomers and dry them down for summer storage From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sun May 23 12:28:46 2004 Message-Id: From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Hymenocallis liriosme Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 12:28:43 EDT Hi, I have seeds of this bulb that I'm happy to send to anyone for SASE. It will take about 3 regular stamps to send them in the USA. I don't mind sending overseas, if such is allowed. Just write to me and I'll figure out a way to deal with the postage if I can. These are big, fat, ripe seeds that should go into a pot in the next few weeks. Just send a private email if you are interested. Cordially, Joe Shaw Conroe TX conroejoe@aol.com From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun May 23 15:31:34 2004 Message-Id: <40B0FC14.7060702@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Allium heldreichii Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:31:32 -0400 A new flowering onion to me. Grown from NARGS seed from 2002. From Mt. Olympus http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Misc%20Onions Arnold New Jersey From dkramb@badbear.com Sun May 23 16:20:43 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20040523162020.01b4edc0@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Allium heldreichii Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 16:20:43 -0400 At 03:31 PM 5/23/2004, you wrote: >A new flowering onion to me. Grown from NARGS seed from 2002. From Mt. >Olympus > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Misc%20Onions > >Arnold >New Jersey That's quite beautiful. An onion suitable for the gods, I guess! :-) Dennis in Cincinnati From africanbulbs@haznet.co.za Sun May 23 16:41:31 2004 Message-Id: <002801c44109$17a7cac0$9e6927c4@ecuser62> From: "Cameron McMaster" Subject: Ledebouria Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 23:00:14 +0200 Fred The image of Ledebouria galpinii has been uploaded. Sorry, I thought it had uploaded last week! The dwarf species from the Amatola Mts has leaves about 4 cm long and the inflorescence 7-8 cm. The plants in the photo were grown under 40% shadecloth which has caused a bit of elongation. Normally the plants are more compact. The bulbs multiply readily, hence the gregarious appearance. The habitat is in grassland on well drained rocky slopes, NE facing, altitude about 1100 m, mainly summer rainfall about 1000 mm. The flowers are easy to find after a winter grass fire, but with moribund grass they don't flower as much and are not easy to find. This is an exciting spot called Rooikrans or Red Ridge: other bulbs within 200 m are: another Ledebouria species (no photo unfortunately), Cyrtanthus suaveolens, Nerine angulata, Tulbaghia acutiloba, several Hypoxis species, Drimia capitata, Scadoxus puniceus, Zantedeschia albomaculata, Agapanthus praecox (a compact smaller form with deep blue flowers) Scilla nervosa (had a name change?), several ground orchids, and in a seep about 50 m away, Cyrtanthus breviflorus and Kniphofia fibrosa. My 2-year seedlings of L. floribunda were also green in the first year; in the second year the leaves have pale spots. Next summer I hope the spots will be dark. Rhoda Napier, W. Cape Local flowers right now: Nerine humilis and Freesia caryophyllacea >Thanks for the images of Ledebouria floribunda and two of L. species. The >image of L. galpinii is not yet accessible. >Can you tell us something about the dwarf species from Amatola Mountains >grassland? How long are the leaves in the image and how tall the >inflorescences? Does this species truly grow amidst grass or does it occupy >a special habitat in the grassland? Is it rhizomatous like some forms of L. >cooperi? Or are the bulbs just gregarious? >So far the seedlings of possible L. galpinii X L. socialis are just green. >But then seedlings of L. socialis forms with heavily marked and colored >leaves are green until the third or fourth leaf. From boutin@goldrush.com Sun May 23 18:29:01 2004 Message-Id: <002401c44115$5086b2a0$753d7143@boutin> From: "boutin" Subject: Ledebouria Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:28:45 -0700 Dear Rhoda, Thanks for your reply and information on Ledebouria and the dwarf species from the Amatola Mts. Tried to open the image of Ledebouria galpinii, but it still comes up blank. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron McMaster" To: Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 2:00 PM Subject: [pbs] Ledebouria > Fred > The image of Ledebouria galpinii has been uploaded. Sorry, I thought it had uploaded last week! > > The dwarf species from the Amatola Mts has leaves about 4 cm long and the inflorescence 7-8 cm. The plants in the photo were grown under 40% shadecloth which has caused a bit of elongation. Normally the plants are more compact. The bulbs multiply readily, hence the gregarious appearance. The habitat is in grassland on well drained rocky slopes, NE facing, altitude about 1100 m, mainly summer rainfall about 1000 mm. The flowers are easy to find after a winter grass fire, but with moribund grass they don't flower as much and are not easy to find. > > This is an exciting spot called Rooikrans or Red Ridge: other bulbs within 200 m are: another Ledebouria species (no photo unfortunately), Cyrtanthus suaveolens, Nerine angulata, Tulbaghia acutiloba, several Hypoxis species, Drimia capitata, Scadoxus puniceus, Zantedeschia albomaculata, Agapanthus praecox (a compact smaller form with deep blue flowers) Scilla nervosa (had a name change?), several ground orchids, and in a seep about 50 m away, Cyrtanthus breviflorus and Kniphofia fibrosa. > > My 2-year seedlings of L. floribunda were also green in the first year; in the second year the leaves have pale spots. Next summer I hope the spots will be dark. > > Rhoda > Napier, W. Cape > Local flowers right now: Nerine humilis and Freesia caryophyllacea > From Bonsaigai37@aol.com Sun May 23 20:54:52 2004 Message-Id: <1db.224652eb.2de2a1d7@aol.com> From: Bonsaigai37@aol.com Subject: bulb fly question Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 20:54:47 EDT As I seem to recall in the recesses of my memory, Iris borer hangs out at a height to effect tall bearded types. However, the smaller dwarf cultivars are less often plagued. Is this true with the other bulb flies? I have Hippeastrum on a second story balcony. I want them to be safe... after losing nearly half of my collection to the damn maggot last year. Thanks Michael From plants_man@bigpond.com Mon May 24 04:15:34 2004 Message-Id: <003901c44167$328f3720$bbfa8690@userdamexligce> From: "Daryl Geoghegan" Subject: New South African Amaryllid Site Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 18:14:53 +1000 Greetings, I have recently built a small inforamtion site on South African Amaryllids. This is a basic start to the site. I would welocme you to visit and coment on the site, thanks. The site can be found at http://www.mainlyamaryllidsgarden.com/ah/ah.htm or by clicking the 'Amaryllid Habitat' link on my homepage. Best wishes, Dash. Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan, Mainly Amaryllids Garden,P O Box 173, Barnawartha,Victoria,3688, Australia. +61 02 60267377,Mobile 0429 621 612 Visit my web site @ http://www.mainlyamaryllidsgarden.com ------------------------------------------------- ABA Web Site: http://www.ausbulbs.org Checkout the bulb images at http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/ From Antennaria@aol.com Mon May 24 14:17:02 2004 Message-Id: <6326D111.6E46275E.0AC9B285@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Allium heldreichii Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:16:35 -0400 In a message dated 5/24/2004 12:11:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org writes: Arnold Trachtenberg wrote: > A new flowering onion to me. Grown from NARGS seed from > 2002. From Mt.Olympus > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Misc%20Onions Hi Arnold and PBS members, I always look at any Allium grown from the seedexs with a bit of suspicion, because so many Alliums are misidentified. On your Allium heldreichii, it's too hard for me to say with certainty that it's identity is true... I guess I'd need to see more of the plant aspect to make a determination. If you could, please compare your plant with a photo I posted last year to the PBS wiki at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Allium There are three links on that page, 2 showing some "Garden views", and the last link showing "Bulb Profiles". That photo shows 4 different Alliums, bulb and all, with the soil washed off, so one gets the whole impression of what the species looks like. The 2nd plant from the left is A. heldreichii (labeled "F"). I have grown it from several known sources, and typically the flowers are a deep pink to purplish pink, in a rather dense-ish head. Previous to that, I grew the plant numerous times from seed exchanges and they always ended up being usurped by an imposter, such as cyathophorum v. farreri, cernuum, and most commonly schoenoprasum. Your plant might represent a pale-flowered form of heldreichii, perhaps a young immature flowering as well, accounting for the few-flowered head. How tall does your plant grow? What are the leaves like... length, shape in cross-section, hollow or solid? The leaf in the background of your plant.... is that the leaf on the plant? It's a little out of focus, but my guess is that that leaf is terete (round in cross section), therefore I'm not ruling out A. schoenoprasum or ledebourianum, the former species being incredibly diverse, that at first glance it doesn't look like the familiar chives. I grow numerous forms of A. schoenoprasum, and your plant is reminiscent of them. Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States "New England", near New Hampshire USDA Zone 5 ======================================= antennaria@aol.com website: http://www.PlantBuzz.com alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From ken@wildlanders.com Tue May 25 20:50:33 2004 Message-Id: <40B3873E.11252.58B48E@localhost> From: ken@wildlanders.com Subject: native violet (sagebrush violet) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:49:50 -0700 Does anyone know how long it takes for seed grown plants to develop bulbs or bulblets? I have some sagebrush violets (V. trinervata) seed here that I shared with some others and reportedly had a rather high germination rate. I would like to grow some of my own, with the intent of selling the bulbs and promoting native plants at the local farmers market next year. They are quite beautiful. It is all part of my native potted plant intiative to try to get folks in the city to seriously start supporting native plants in the common urban environment (even apartment patios) through the use of hanging baskets and pots (large and small). A low hanging basket of these violets is absolutely beautiful in the spring. In any event, has anyone grown this native violet or any violets with a bulbous like root system? And if so, how long did it take to raise them to the point where they flowered and produced significant size bulb(let)s? -Ken ken at wildlanders.com Ellensburg, WA From Antennaria@aol.com Tue May 25 23:50:36 2004 Message-Id: <39.484da011.2de56e08@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: TOW - Fabulous Foliage Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:50:32 EDT Dear PBS members, I'm a couple days late with this week's TOW topic; sorry about that, but better late than never. Fabulous Foliage PBS Topic of the Week With bulbs and geophytes, perhaps more so than with herbaceous flowering plants, the attention is primarily placed on floral effect. Yet there are some geophytes with handsome foliage, worthy of growing for their foliar appeal as well as the flowers, and even some grown exclusively for the foliage. If some of your bulbs stopped flowering on a regular basis, which ones would you grow because of the nice foliage? Veltheimia comes to mind, as a genus with gorgeous foliage, worth cultivating regardless of whether the pretty flowers show up or not. I grow some geophytes where the main attraction is foliage, and I put together a photo gallery to help illustrate my examples. For ease of access, by having all photos in one place for this discussion, I put together a gallery on my website at: http://www.plantbuzz.com/Buzz/PBS/im_TOW_052404.htm (* Note: some of the same photos are already uploaded to the PBS wiki and can be found there separately. Not all photo galleries at the link above are enabled yet, but will be fully enabled in the next couple of days. Those mini-galleries that are enabled are indicated in red text). Allium ====== Alliums contain a diverse range of plants, some of which have striking foliage. One species that jumps out for foliar interest is Allium senescens var. glaucum, an Asian species known by a number of colorful common names, among them "cowlick oinion", "circle onion", and "spirale onion". I selected the form 'Blue Eddy' in which the foliage is extra silvery-blue, and the prostrate swirling action more pronounced. I use it as a ground cover. The late summer hemispheres of pale pink flowers are pleasant but do little to improve on the effect. Many allium species within the melanocrommyum section (the subgenus that contains the "big ball" types, such as A. giganteum), have remarkable spring foliage. I posted a photo that shows a bed of varied melanocrommyum species in spring growth with lush, succulent foliage. That photo is a springboard to the next species; Allium karataviense, which has outstanding foliage in the spring. From wild collections, and among several known cultivars, the foliage coloration, size, and shape is noticeably variable. But in all forms, the thick leathery leaves held just above ground level are richly pleated, often suffused with purplish tones. The popular new variety 'Ivory Queen' has luxuriant pale pewter-toned foliage creating great accents in a shrub/perennial planting bed, perfectly complimenting the clean white flower globes. Allium nutans is another swirling onion, again from the far east, and akin to Allium senescens. By the way, it's interesting to note that the leaves always spiral in a clockwise direction. I wonder if they spin the other way in the southern hemisphere? But back to A. nutans, it is a stalwart sort with foliage much larger, wider, and thicker than A. senescens. In one particular form I grow, the foliage is extraordinarily heavy and thick, a real "bruiser", with gray leaves that ascend and twist in eye-catching formation. The dense globes of white flowers are pleasant but anticlimactic. It's always fun to find deviant forms of household plants, and one such plant originating in my garden is Allium schoenoprasum 'Curly Mauve' (call it curly chives if you like). I believe it's a cross between typical taller forms of chives with some dwarf collections from Corsica that tended to have prostrate foliage. One has to see this cultivar in person to believe it; from early spring to early summmer bulking up with wild medusan clumps of fine curling "tentacles". The gray-lavender flowers are pretty, but they tend to negate the foliage effect. Novel seedlings appear that are even more extreme in the prostrate curled disposition. Arisaema ======== This is a group many of you know and love, myself included, yet they are plants that your non-gardening friends and loved ones will pretend to admire (or possibly just barely tolerate) as you point them out and wax poetic over the strange brown structures that you and I know as curiously spectacular blooms. But there are some species where the foliage is every bit as alluring as the bizarre flowers, in fact, it seems that nearly all of the Asian species come in both green-leaf forms and beautiful variegated-leaf forms. There are some too, where the leaf shape, size, appearance, and structure, are to be marvelled at, whether variegated or not. Arisaema ringens is such a species. Ariseama ringens has simple three-part foliage, each foliage trio so large, lush, waxy, glossy and pertly displayed, that they barely seem real. The bizarre clenched-fist-like blooms are fascinating for the collector of such oddities, but the huge glossy green leaves appeal to everyone. The Japanese A. kishidae is a real trooper.. a good doer in our harsh New England winters. I grow the variegated form, which has boldly variegated foliage, growing wider than tall, the leaves only reaching about 8" (20 cm). The translucent copper, white-striped spathes appear before the leaves emerge, yet remain above the foliage when the leaves finally unfurl. One of the finest species. Some years it doesn't flower, but I can always admire the foliage. Arisaema heterophyllum is a stalwart giant. It doesn't sprout until June, then miraculously grows to 6' tall (2 meters) in just 3 weeks. The spathe is green, and not showy, but it's the stately stature and elegance of this species that demands attention. The complex multi-segmented leaf that encircles the flower, atop a strong 4-1/2' (135 cm) stem, is impressively bold and imposing. A photograph taken in a friends garden shows Arisaema serratum and A. sikokianum, two more Japanese species, both in their variegated leaf forms. The flowers on the latter species, A. sikokianum, are of course spectacular, but who wouldn't grow either species even if they never flowered. To be continued... ============= Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com < From Antennaria@aol.com Wed May 26 13:27:21 2004 Message-Id: <6B5B5E69.40C365D6.0AC9B285@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: native violet (sagebrush violet) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:27:15 -0400 ken@wildlanders.com wrote: >Does anyone know how long it takes >for seed grown plants [Viola trinervata] >to develop bulbs or bulblets? Hi Ken, I used to live in the Seattle area, and would often go "botanizing" in the Wenatchee Mts, close to your home turf in Ellensburg, Washington. I also frequented the sagebrush areas in the area towards Vantage, WA, and Yakima. With Viola trinervata, I think you have picked a very difficult subject, and you may want to look at the great diversity of other plants in your area to find some that are more amenable to cultivation and propagation, such as some of the Penstemons. Viola trinervata shares a growth cycle like many sagebrush and dryland plants, in having a very short season of growth in spring, after which it goes dormant to some sort of storage root, not a bulb in the true sense, but a fleshy rhizome that carries it through the dry summer. This violet is indeed among the most gorgeous of all violets, along with allied species V. beckwithii and V. hallii, but outside of their austere environment, these species are very difficult to cultivate successfully for any length of time, particularly in areas that receive more rain. One of my favorite plants in your area, is Trifolium macrocephalum, the big-headed clover, which retreats to an underground rhizome after flowering. The form in the Wenatchees intrigued me because the immense spheres of blooms were a salmon orange color, sitting atop sparse but concise leaflets... hardly one's notion of clover. I never succeeded in cultivating the plant for more than a year or two, and never got flowers. Same is true with my attempts at sagebrush delights such as Viola trinervata & Ranunculus glaberriumus (sagebrush buttercup, also geophytic), and limited success with the geophytic delphineum species in the area. I am able to grow other plants from the area, that are more forgiving in our New England climate, such as Eriogonums and Penstemons. My guess is, that if you were able to cultivate V. trinervata (possibly so, given that you live right where it is native), that it would require 5 years or so, for seedlings to reach flowering size, as they aestivate for such a short period of time each spring, that its a slow proposition. I would also summise, that any average gardener who'd purchase a basket full of V. trinervata (its hard to even imagine such a thing), they would most likely kill it in a very short time from watering. There are other Viola species in your area, some lovely yellow ones that grow in more wooded locations, that would probably be more amenable to cultivation. Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States "New England", near New Hampshire USDA Zone 5 ======================================= antennaria@aol.com website: http://www.PlantBuzz.com alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From ang.por@aliceposta.it Wed May 26 14:58:10 2004 Message-Id: <001001c44353$11608020$3c163152@computer> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: ...a bit of onion... Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 20:55:51 +0200 No friends, this is not an Italian recipe ! I have added three Allium species (atroviolaceum, roseum, sunhirsutum) in http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Misc%20Onions Enjoy Angelo Porcelli From jglatt@ptd.net Thu May 27 08:11:15 2004 Message-Id: <000f01c443e4$3d08ae00$d79a32d1@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: fabulous foliage Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:14:58 -0400 First one that comes to mind is caladium - tropical tubers that love heat, humidity, appreciate shade, and have enough color that I don't even need to plant impatiens. Besides, the deer strolling through my garden ignore caladiums, a very large plus. Cannas such as 'Australia' are coming along with purple-bronze foliage; there's gold-striped 'Pretoria'; and razzmatazz peachy, bronze, green 'Tropicana'. All fine for sun and wet. Then there's that intransigent Stuttgart with gray-green and white blotched leaves that likes to brown at the edges unless conditions of moisture and shade are just right. Cyclamen - who needs flowers when leaves look this good? Arum italicum - anything looks good when there's snow on the ground, and the embellishments of 'Pictum' or Chameleon just add to the fun. regards from Judy in gray and overcast New Jersey From claudesweet@cox.net Thu May 27 11:04:23 2004 Message-Id: <40B60375.5000506@cox.net> From: Claude Sweet Subject: oxalis images and chart Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:04:21 -0700 I have started to post images of my oxalis to the web site below http://members.cox.net/hortventures/Oxalisindex.html The article I am writing for HortResources will be published electronically for their members in July. I have created the site to provide the editor with images at low resolution so they can make a selection prior to my sending them as high resolution images. I am still learning how to compose the photos and use the digital camera for maximum effect. Its a slow process to accumulate all of the images I would like to add - bulb/rhizome, leaves, flowers, as a specimen, use in landscape, etc. My editor will be posting my oxalis chart on their web site as it is too much information to include in the text of the article. I still have some information gaps in my chart for the following species: commutata corniculata enneaphylla fabaefolia flava goniorhiza latifolia martiana mollissima polphylla quadrangularis stipularis tuberosa The chart is an Excel file that I can send to anyone interested in providing information. Any comments and suggestions would be appreciated. Claude Sweet San Diego, CA USA > > From ken@wildlanders.com Thu May 27 17:42:16 2004 Message-Id: <40B5FE0E.19380.3C40EA@localhost> From: ken@wildlanders.com Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 16, Issue 30 Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:41:18 -0700 Thanks for the comments Mark. I am bound and determined to get that violet to work. I may have to do some artificial selection though it would go against my primary interest to preserve the plant for its natural (and reclamation) qualities. I have collected the seed from the bighead clover too. When I first seen it, I could not believe the size of those clover heads - four inches across! Wow! I am also hoping to do a desert garden rather than a rock or alpine garden. Will likely use some of the lithosol soils. Sounds like you have done a lot of work in regards to natives here and very good to know someone else who appreciates them. I am still going to try and do that basket. Will have to market them as very special plants with a very short growing season. Will likely put some others in there that bloom a bit later - like the bitterroot. That way the basket will have several 'seasons'. In any event, if they work out, they will be of particular interest to the folks in Spokane, Wenatchee, Yakima, etc. There is a lot of construction going on between Vantage and Ellensburg now so there may be an opportunity to harvest some of the plants from a construction site before they plow the whole country under. Word is there is going to be an "east" Ellensburg out near the Colockum Pass road (SE base of the Wenatchee Mountains). Will not bode well for the deer and elk herds here as that is all winter rangeland. One of the reasons I want to propogate that violet (and others) is to promote it in the local gardens to keep it alive in the event the whole country here ends up like Seattle someday. So I view it as a preservation issue. In any event, thanks for the info. Will hope to keep in touch. Ken Boettger Ellensburg, WA USA USDA Zone 6 http://www.wildlanders.com ken at wildlanders dot com Native Plant Container Gardening: Bringing native plants back to the city to support the native butterflies, native birds, migratory birds and other wildlife. A wonderful way to keep nature around you and bring the wild back to the city! > Hi Ken, > > I used to live in the Seattle area, and would often go "botanizing" in the Wenatchee Mts, close to your home turf in Ellensburg, Washington. I also frequented the sagebrush areas in the area towards Vantage, WA, and Yakima... > > With Viola trinervata, I think you have picked a very difficult subject, and you may want to look at the great diversity of other plants in your area to find some that are more amenable to cultivation and propagation, such as some of the Penstemons. > > Viola trinervata shares a growth cycle like many sagebrush and dryland plants, in having a very short season of growth in spring, after which it goes dormant to some sort of storage root, not a bulb in the true sense, but a fleshy rhizome that carries it through the dry summer. This violet is indeed among the most gorgeous of all violets, along with allied species V. beckwithii and V. hallii, but outside of their austere environment, these species are very difficult to cultivate successfully for any length of time, particularly in areas that receive more rain. > > One of my favorite plants in your area, is Trifolium macrocephalum, the big- headed clover, which retreats to an underground rhizome after flowering. The form in the Wenatchees intrigued me because the immense spheres of blooms were a salmon orange color, sitting atop sparse but concise leaflets... hardly one's notion of clover. I never succeeded in cultivating the plant for more than a year or two, and never got flowers. Same is true with my attempts at sagebrush delights such as Viola trinervata & Ranunculus glaberriumus (sagebrush buttercup, also geophytic), and limited success with the geophytic delphineum species in the area. I am able to grow other plants from the area, that are more forgiving in our New England climate, such as Eriogonums and Penstemons. > > My guess is, that if you were able to cultivate V. trinervata (possibly so, given that you live right where it is native), that it would require 5 years or so, for seedlings to reach flowering size, as they aestivate for such a short period of time each spring, that its a slow proposition. I would also summise, that any average gardener who'd purchase a basket full of V. trinervata (its hard to even imagine such a thing), they would most likely kill it in a very short time from watering. There are other Viola species in your area, some lovely yellow ones that grow in more wooded locations, that would probably be more amenable to cultivation. > > Mark McDonough > Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States > "New England", near New Hampshire > USDA Zone 5 From piabinha@yahoo.com Fri May 28 12:16:48 2004 Message-Id: <20040528161647.27982.qmail@web51909.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: TOW - Fabulous Foliage Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:16:47 -0700 (PDT) not having a garden, it's difficult for me to talk about so many plants that i have not personally grown. but in terms of plants grown for foliage, one could mention: Sinningia - various sinningias have beautiful foliage. S. leucotricha as most of you know have silvery hairy leaves that turn greener and less dense as the stem/leaves grow, but in its incipient stages, it feels and looks like soft wool. others with soft, lanuginous leaves include: globulosa ("lanata"), piresiana, hatschbachii. Smithiantha, Kohleria, Achimenes - rhizomatous members of the Gesneriaceae, many have beautifully felted leaves with various types of markings and stripes in leaves, in addition to the attractive flowers. Asarum - are these considered bulbs/bulb-like? i haven't grown these "wild gingers" but i've seen many that have gorgeous leaves. Tricyrtis - aren't some grown for foliage? Trillium - same as above. Cornukaempferia, Kaempferia - these true gingers are sometimes called peacock gingers for their beautiful leaves. Arisaema, Calladium, Alocasia, Colocasia, Xanthosoma, and various other aroids, as it has been mentioned. Massonia - very strange two-leaved Amaryllid. some species have "corrugated" leaves. Rauhia - the leaves are so huge and succulent that they are a conversation piece in themselves. tsuh yang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Fri May 28 17:47:10 2004 Message-Id: <1BTpBl-20Kr4R0@fwd10.sul.t-online.com> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: TOW bulbs with good foliage Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:46:53 +0200 Dear All There are three favourite plants of mine that have very beautiful foliage. Sinningia speciosa 'Regina' Is a naturally occuring variant of Sinningia speciosa and has dark green velvety leaves with white veins. It forms a fairly large regular rosette and in summer will flower with purply foxglove like flowers well above the foliage but is extremely ornamental just as a foliage plant. It has a short dormancy in winter and forms a big potato like tuber. It looks very noble and I find it aptly named. Many other gesneriads have beautiful foliage like Rechsteineria leucotricha with striking pure silver white leaves and many Kohlerias often totally covered in reddish or brownish hairs. Dahlia imperialis, unfortunately always a foliage plant here in Germany because it is a short day bloomer and will be cut down by frost before it flowers. (apparently there is a summer flowering form in cultivation in Argentina but I did not manage to get hold of it) But WHAT foliage! It forms a thick bamboo like trunk many metres tall and has very large bi- or tripinnate leaves. It is an excellent background plant in a tropical border or in a (very large) container. It grows with a frightening pace when will watered and fed. It is a spectacular plant in bloom in frost free gardens. Zantedeschia aethiopica. Since childhood I love this plant! There are so many forms: some have leaves that are very green, others have a greyish or bluish tinge some leaves are bigger and some slender and very arrow-shaped. Some plants are dwarfer and some really big. There is a var. gigantea. The puristic flower is very beautiful, too but especially the emerging foliage after summer dormancy is most beautiful in its lushness. greetings from a long and very cold spring in Germany, Uli From daffodil@wave.co.nz Fri May 28 22:15:31 2004 Message-Id: <002401c44522$ad44ac20$0dc760cb@Dads> From: "Bill Dijk" Subject: What's flowering Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:14:24 +1200 Hi Folks, At last, after a long, very busy, and sometimes frustrating mail-order season and the just finished planting of all the multitude of bulbs again, we finally catching up with most of the never ending, necessary work, and perhaps have some more spare time to spend with other more interesting activities with our friends and like-minded people. What ever happened to all the well intended semi-retirement plans of leisure,cruises, world tours, holidays etc. Never mind, one day we'll get there, in the meantime no rest for the wicked. Anyway, I thought I start off by showing you what is in flower at the moment or at least just finished lately, and join in with the gang whenever possible. I have just finished downloading a collection of images to share with you and to update and add to the work of others. I will write/add some text to the url's shortly when I get more time. In the meantime enjoy the pictures. Best wishes. Bill D. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Androcymbium.ciliolatum.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Androcymbium-ciliolatum.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Bessera-elegans-purple-form.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Bessera-elegans.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Boophane-flava.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Colchicum-bivonae.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Cyclamen_graecum-alba.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Cyclamen-graecum-alba.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Gladiolus-carmineus.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Gladiolus-priorii.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Glor.superba.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Gloriosa-superba.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Habranthus-brachyandrus.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Haemanthus-carneus.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Lachenalia.rubida.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Lycoris-aurea.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Lycoris-longituba.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Lycoris-sp.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Moraea-polystachya.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Narcissus-bulbocodium-hybr.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Nerine-bowdenii.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Nerine-hybrids.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Nerine-pudica.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Nerine-RedRobin.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis-fabaefolia.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Oxalis-tomentosa.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Polyxena-ensifolia.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Polyxena-paucifolia.jpg Tauranga, New Zealand :annual rainfall :1250 mm. Sunshine hours, mean annual : 2350 hours. Temp.mean max.Summer : 25°C. Winter:15°C. Temp.mean min. Summer :14.5°C. Winter: 5°C. Wet mild Winters with occasional light frost. From Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com Sat May 29 01:43:37 2004 Message-Id: From: Nan Sterman Subject: Allium atroviolaceum Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 22:43:18 -0700 Can anyone tell me where to purchase Allium atroviolaceum . Locations in Southern California are best... Thanks -- +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Nan Sterman Plant Soup (TM) PO Box 231034 Encinitas, CA 92023 760.634.2902 (voice) Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com 760.634.2957 (fax) +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= From ang.por@aliceposta.it Sat May 29 16:21:00 2004 Message-Id: <002b01c445ba$225efaa0$ad113152@computer> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Allium atroviolaceum Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 22:18:40 +0200 Dear Nan, I don't think Alllium atroviolaceum is available commercially and this is a shame, as this species has good ornamental value. Also, bulbs are edible and were used here as substitute of garlic and in the preparation of a dish (boiled and fried with eggs) Angelo Porcelli Italy From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat May 29 16:46:01 2004 Message-Id: <40B8F681.3000500@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Allium atroviolaceum Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 16:45:53 -0400 Seed available here: http://www.reticulatas.com/HardyBulbs/SeedList.html Arnold New Jersey From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Sat May 29 16:50:02 2004 Message-Id: <20040529204947.76055.qmail@web50106.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Artistry/John Ingram Subject: Colorful Foliage Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 13:49:47 -0700 (PDT) Here are my top choices as a designer for most colorful foliage: Canna (duh, but Australia as mentioned before is the best, combine with a bright foliage such as anything chartreuse, i.e. Coleus, Ipomoea 'Marguerite, etc. Toss in some hot pink or burgundy flowers for added interest. These could be Verbena, some Lantana, petunias, etc.) Sinningias, Tsuh Yang said it best Variegated Clivias - wow. The Chinese ones I have are absolutely perfect in clarity and form. Achimenes as Uli said are great So are Smithianas. Dianella (not sure of how much of a tuberous root system there is there but the color is great to add in. The 'Yellow Stripe' can brighten any dark corner and has brilliant cobalt blue flowers with purple berrries that follow. Crinum procerum forms, Nigra, Black Beauty, Nancy, etc. are incredible statement pieces in the garden or in containers. They can be softened with silver foliage of Artemesias, dusty millers, coleus, plectranthus, etc. Alliums. There are many twisted silver foliage forms of them that are great front of the border textures. All the colorful Elephant ears as Tsuh Yang said. Pancratium, there are many forms but those with the almost pure silver leaves are graet counterparts to any annual or perennial with blue or lavender flowers. Begonias, almost all work for color. I was at the Huntington and noticed that there are a lot of areas cleared in the Subtropical and Tropical Garden that have large collections of Begonias. From inches tall to several feet, there is a wide variety of material here to choose from even if they aren't all tuberous. Oxalis, well, there are quite a few that work here. Helleborus, are these considered geophytes? I'll lump them here. THere are variegated and spotted and chartereuse forms that are great in sun or shade areas with enough water. Dicentra spectablis 'Gold Heart' Beautiful blender. It combines two unusual colors, yellow and pink. Eucomis 'Oakhurst' & 'Sparkling Burgundy'. Same reasons as Crinums listed above. Violas, there are many colorful foliage forms. Agapanthus, 'Tinkerbell', africanus 'Variegatus', 'Summer Gold', and more. Some people say they look just like spider plants but we know that they lok better. Yucca, a geophyte but not in the strict sense but included here as there are many forms with incredible winter and summer colors, 'Bright Edge', 'Colorgaurd', and 'Gold Ribbons' are those most common and marketed by Terra Nova so there is wide distribution. These are the closest ones to bulbs/geophytes that I use most often. If you allowed me, I can list 1000's of other plants that give a lot of bang for the buck for colorful foliage, Phormiums, Astelia, bamboos, Hebe, artemisia, and the list goes on, and on, and on, and on, and......... ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. Soon to become www.floralarchitecture.com check it out soon jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000 From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Sat May 29 18:48:04 2004 Message-Id: <1BUCcA-0bgncA0@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: Hippeastrum calyptratum Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 00:47:42 +0200 Dear All, There are two flowers open for the first time on my plant of Hippeastrum calyptratum. The flowers are totally green without any red or other colour and emit a very strong strange not to say offensive smell. I wonder how they are pollinated being so green and growing epiphytically amongst a lot of greenery. Must be the smell that attracts the pollinator, perhaps bats? Does anybody know? I suspect that my plant will be self sterile. will it make sense to send pollen to the BX? How should I sent it? perhaps on cotton swabs? How else? Is there anybody interested in pollen at all before I go into the trouble of packing and sending it? greetings, Uli From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat May 29 21:40:42 2004 Message-Id: <40B93B96.7000302@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Hippeastrum calyptratum Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 21:40:38 -0400 Uli; Try shinning an ultraviolet light on the flower and you may see a different pattern. I think that some flowers have patterns that are not obvious to our eye, but insects can see in a different wavelength. Arnold New Jersey From dells@voicenet.com Sun May 30 07:34:19 2004 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 62 Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 07:36:07 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by PBS list members for sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 61" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER.. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Leo Martin: 1. Seed from various open-pollinated Hippeastrum hybrids. From Dell Sherk: 2. Seed of Hippeastrum 'Lemon Lime' x H. 'Naughty Lady' From Gary Meltzer: 3. Seed of Clivia miniata descended from the plants brought to Golden Gate Park by John McLaren, not the creator, but the first major garden influence and defender of the park in San Francisco. Currently they live under a monkeypod tree (in Hawaii), offset very frequently, bloom profusely, and it seems that all of the seeds sprout and grow very fast blooming within a year or a little more. The one plant I put in the ground 3 years ago is now a cluster about 3' X 5' all of which bloom extremely well. They are in the ground about 5' from an all year stream in an area that gets over 200" of rain a year average, spread throughout the year. I never water them and rarely fertilize. The soil is slightly acid (pH 6.34), and never dry. Exposure is high shade - the monkeypod- and on a slight slope. From Paul Tyerman (photos of some of these are available on the PBS wiki): Amaryllis belladonna - hot pink multifora style Scape- http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/PThot_pink_multiflora_head(for_BX). jpg Bulb- http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/PThot_pink_multiflora_bulb(for_BX). jpg Flower- http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/PThot_pink_multiflora_flower(for_BX ).jpg The colour in the single flower shot is pretty much accurate. A good bright pink. The full scape shot colour has been changed a bit by the camera adjustment to shade. Belladonna - white with pink tips http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/PTwhite_with_pink_tips(for_BX).jpg Belladonna - white fading to pink http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/PTWhite_to_pink(for_BX).jpg Belladonna - hot pink ... looks like I forgot to photograph that this year. The flower colour is very similar to the hot pink multiflora type but there are less flowers and they are uni-directionally arranged like the straight species. I also uploaded a picture of my Agapanthus africanus. Pretty accurate with the colour so people know what they're getting... http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/PTAgapanthus_africanus.jpg 4. Seed of Amaryllis belladonna - hot pink multiflora variety. This is a stunning bright pink multiflora style of belladonna with up to 25 flowers per scape, arranged in a full circle rather than uni-directional like the straight species. No idea what the origins of this plant were or what the offspring will produce. Bulbs get to be nearly the size of a football with mutiple stems per bulb (which I personally had never seen before). 5. Seed ofAmaryllis belladonna - mixed seed of 3 parents. I have mixed these as they were growing near each other and are likely to be cross-pollinated between the 3 of them. The parents are all the floriferous uni-directional species types but flowers are very different as follows: 1. White with pink tips 2. Bright pink with white throat 3. White, fading to dark pink - This produces flowers on the one head that range from white through to dark pink. VERY floriferous plant that flowers happily for me in a pot or the ground unlike so many varieties that don't seem to like pots. 6. Seed of Agapanthus africanus. To my knowledge this is correctly named. It has matched the few pictures I could find of this species. The flower stem is around 2 foot tall at the most with maybe 15 - 20 small decidedly purple flowers that tend to all more or less face in the one direction. 7. Seed of Haemanthus coccineus - This is a mixture of seed from around 9 different seed parents. Numerous crosses with pollen between them were undertaken so there should be a very good mix of genetics within the seed pool. All are very good flowerers for me. They're summer dormant, flowering just prior to the emergence of their single pair of broad flat leaves. Very slow to multiply so seed really is the best option to build up a collection of them. Usually takes around 6 years to flowering but can be a little quicker. From Tom Glavich: Seed of 8. Albuca batteriana - a great large Albuca, flowers from late January through March, clumps. I wouldn't be without this in my garden. White and green flowers. 9. Pancratium maratimum (only 3 seeds) 10. Tritonopsis caffra - spectacular bright red flowers, and great wrinkled seed pods! Bulbs and Bulblets 11. Bellevalia pycnantha 12. Muscari armeniacum 'Blue Spike' 13. Muscari armeniacum 'Cantab' 14. Muscari armeniacum 'Christmas Pearl' 15. Muscari aucheri 'Blue Magic' 16. Muscari comosum 'Plumosum' 17. Muscari latifolium 18. Muscari neglectum 19. Sparaxis bulbifera 20. Watsonia coccinea 21. Watsonia laccata 22. Watsonia pillansii Thank you, Leo, Gary, Paul, and Tom !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From dells@voicenet.com Sun May 30 07:34:03 2004 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pre-emergent weed control Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 07:36:08 -0400 Does anyone out there have experience with using a pre-emergent (Preen is the only one I know of) on bulb beds. I realize that I would lose self-seedings of galanthus, crocus, eranthis etc. but the weeds have really gotten out of control. Any help appreciated, Dell -- Dell Sherk, SE PA US Zone 6. Amaryllids, South Americans, Cyrtanthus, Hardy bulbs, cactus and succulents, and, after a lapse, gesneriads. From c-mueller@tamu.edu Sun May 30 08:52:42 2004 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: Pre-emergent weed control Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 07:51:53 -0500 Dell....I've never been brave enough to use pre-emergent weedkiller on bulb beds - just Ortho grass-b-gone to "wilt" away grassy weeds. Foolishly I let a small leaved tradescantia relative get started around some of my bulbs. It lies flat when it begins growth, but after the plants build up they rise into the air six or eight inches high and choke out many things. Possibly the only solution here is to dig the bulbs, take out all traces of tradescantia and screen the soil that goes back into the bed. Sigh - sounds like work... Cynthia Mueller PS your latest seed exchange is really spectacular. >>> dells@voicenet.com 5/30/04 6:36:08 AM >>> Does anyone out there have experience with using a pre-emergent (Preen is the only one I know of) on bulb beds. I realize that I would lose self-seedings of galanthus, crocus, eranthis etc. but the weeds have really gotten out of control. Any help appreciated, Dell -- Dell Sherk, SE PA US Zone 6. Amaryllids, South Americans, Cyrtanthus, Hardy bulbs, cactus and succulents, and, after a lapse, gesneriads. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From miaam@ars-grin.gov Sun May 30 09:04:36 2004 Message-Id: <006a01c44646$a7cdbd70$6501a8c0@eucharis> From: "Nolo Contendre" Subject: Hippeastrum calyptratum Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 09:04:34 -0400 Uli, Bat pollination was observed on H. calyptratum in Brazil. This was unfortunately never published. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johannes-Ulrich Urban" <320083817243-0001@t-online.de> To: Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 6:47 PM Subject: [pbs] Hippeastrum calyptratum > Dear All, > > > There are two flowers open for the first time on my plant of Hippeastrum > calyptratum. The flowers are totally green without any red or other colour and > emit a very strong strange not to say offensive smell. I wonder how they are > pollinated being so green and growing epiphytically amongst a lot of greenery. > Must be the smell that attracts the pollinator, perhaps bats? Does anybody > know? > I suspect that my plant will be self sterile. will it make sense to send pollen > to the BX? How should I sent it? perhaps on cotton swabs? How else? Is there > anybody interested in pollen at all before I go into the trouble of packing and > sending it? > > greetings, Uli > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From claudesweet@cox.net Sun May 30 11:08:55 2004 Message-Id: <40B9F905.2020105@cox.net> From: Claude Sweet Subject: Pacific BX 62 Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 08:08:53 -0700 Dell, Please send the following: From Paul Tyerman (photos of some of these are available on the PBS wiki): 4. Seed of Amaryllis belladonna - hot pink multiflora variety. This is a stunning bright pink multiflora style of belladonna with up to 25 flowers per scape, arranged in a full circle rather than uni-directional like the straight species. Bulbs get to be nearly the size of a football with mutiple stems per bulb. 7. Seed of Haemanthus coccineus - This is a mixture of seed from around 9 different seed parents. They're summer dormant, flowering just prior to the emergence of their single pair of broad flat leaves. Very slow to multiply so seed really is the best option to build up a collection of them. Usually takes around 6 years to flowering but can be a little quicker. From Tom Glavich: Seed of 8. Albuca batteriana - a great large Albuca, flowers from late January through March, clumps. I wouldn't be without this in my garden. White and green flowers. 10. Tritonopsis caffra - spectacular bright red flowers, and great wrinkled seed pods! Bulbs and Bulblets 11. Bellevalia pycnantha 12. Muscari armeniacum 'Blue Spike' 13. Muscari armeniacum 'Cantab' 14. Muscari armeniacum 'Christmas Pearl' 15. Muscari aucheri 'Blue Magic' 16. Muscari comosum 'Plumosum' 17. Muscari latifolium 18. Muscari neglectum 19. Sparaxis bulbifera 20. Watsonia coccinea 21. Watsonia laccata 22. Watsonia pillansii Claude Sweet 7488 Comet View Court San Diego, CA 92120-2004 > > From skyblueskiesflowers@yahoo.com Sun May 30 13:32:18 2004 Message-Id: <20040530173217.46257.qmail@web12609.mail.yahoo.com> From: Elizabeth Leigh Subject: A collected list of desired seeds? - Revisited Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:32:17 -0700 (PDT) I was wondering if anything had ever come of this? Libby Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:55:49 -0700 From: Laura & Dave Subject: [pbs] A collected list of desired seeds? Hi all, I've been intending to post a note, asking if there is a mechanism in place to list seeds that one would especially like to see on the exchange. I know that if I knew that someone wanted a certain species, I'd make an extra effort to get a good, species true seed set for the exchange. As I've only been a member for half a year, perhaps you've already tried this and found it too much work or bother, or even not in the spontaneous spirit of the exchange. However, I'd be willing to do the work if it is deemed a good idea. Perhaps people could submit a list of no more than five species they really wanted to me, NOT the list. I would then make a compilation list and send it as a weekly e-mail, or however frequently seemed reasonable. We did something similar for a local plant exchange, and it worked quite well. Don't start sending requests just yet, let's see if this idea seems worthwhile to the group. I'll post another note if the feedback is positive, to let you know that the "lust line" is open. Thanks again, Peace and good gardening Dave Brastow toadlily@olywa.net --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun May 30 14:40:39 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040530113954.01713ed0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: A collected list of desired seeds? - Revisited Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 11:40:33 -0700 Regarding the "want list" of seeds, could this be made a wiki page where people could make their own posts? Jane McGary From claudesweet@cox.net Sun May 30 14:43:54 2004 Message-Id: <40BA2B66.4060809@cox.net> From: Claude Sweet Subject: Pacific BX 62 Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 11:43:50 -0700 Sorry my previous post to Dell was to the entire list. Claude Sweet > From toadlily@olywa.net Sun May 30 15:49:56 2004 Message-Id: <40BA3AE6.9000700@olywa.net> From: Laura & Dave Subject: A collected list of desired seeds? - Revisited Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 12:49:58 -0700 Hi Elizabeth, Jane and all The idea of starting a desired seed list was put to the group, but only two people responded, although both positively. This didn't seem like a great response, so I decided not to start the list. Perhaps this is giving up too easily? I'm still willing to coordinate the collection of the desired seed lists (e-mails). A Wiki page would entail everyone learning how to manipulate the Wiki pages, both to add and delete seed requests. Also there would be the task of periodic page cleanup and restoration. How the seed would be gotten from grower to requester was also a bit of a question. My idea was to simply let a grower know that a particular seed was wanted, so that it could be encouraged, harvested and sent to be included in a normal BX or SX. Exactly how a person requesting seed should be ensured of receiveing some I hadn't worked out yet. Options are to send seed directly from grower to requester (extra work and expense for the grower), automatically send seed to the requester from the BX (extra work for the coordinator, duplication of orders, sending seed no longer desired), or an e-mail to the requester letting one know that the seed is available (a little exta work for either the grower or the coordinator). I personally favor the last option. As in all things proposed, the initial idea is simple, but the details are problem. Yours, Dave Brastow (7A, wet after two weeks of mostly rain) toadlily@olywa.net From blweintraub1@earthlink.net Sun May 30 21:57:58 2004 Message-Id: <5978600.1085968677212.JavaMail.root@skeeter.psp.pas.earthlink.net> From: blweintraub1@earthlink.net Subject: A collected list of desired seeds? - Revisited Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 19:57:57 -0600 (GMT-06:00) I'm interested in publishing both a wishlist and an availability list. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun May 30 23:11:09 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040530200738.00bbb810@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: A collected list of desired seeds? - Revisited Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 20:11:01 -0700 At 12:49 PM 5/30/2004 -0700, you wrote: > A Wiki page would entail everyone learning how to manipulate the Wiki pages, both to add >and delete seed requests. Also there would be the task of periodic page cleanup and restoration. I think the instructions could be written so that anyone could do it. Editing the text pages is much less difficult than downloading pictures, and this would just be simple editing. > How the seed would be gotten from grower to requester was also a bit > of a question. How about this: The person seeking an item simply lists his or her e-mail address, and the person responding writes to the requester privately, offers the item, gets the requester's mailing address, and sends it. The PBS would not be involved at all in shipping seeds and bulbs. The two individuals involved could also discuss exchanges, payment for shipping, etc., between themselves. Jane McGary From toadlily@olywa.net Mon May 31 04:49:06 2004 Message-Id: <40BAD872.1000303@olywa.net> From: Laura & Dave Subject: The grower/requester connection and the PBS Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 00:02:10 -0700 My reasons for suggesting having the seeds going through the PBS SX are many. One would be that the profit gained from the SX is used to help keep the email and web sites going, or used for other expenses to the group. (Tnstaafl ... there's no such thing as a free lunch) Another reason is that since seed is being harvested, one might as well send a goodly lot to the SX, so that many people can benefit. Another reason, as I said before, is that postage, packaging and the chore of addressing would be reduced for the members sending seed. Our Sx coordinator, Dell, is doing a great job, and the frequent announcements would ensure that the seed would have nearly identical freshness. Should there be a special need, the grower and requester can always strike a separate arrangement. Thanks again, Peace and good gardening Dave Brastow From crinum@libero.it Mon May 31 07:11:14 2004 Message-Id: From: "crinum@libero.it" Subject: A collected list of desired seeds? - Revisited Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 13:11:12 +0200 I think this is the best. Alberto Italy ---------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : "Pacific Bulb Society" pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Sun, 30 May 2004 20:11:01 -0700 Subject : Re: [pbs] Re: A collected list of desired seeds? - Revisited > At 12:49 PM 5/30/2004 -0700, you wrote: > > A Wiki page would entail everyone learning how to manipulate the Wiki > pages, both to add >and delete seed requests. Also there would be the task > of periodic page cleanup and restoration. > > I think the instructions could be written so that anyone could do it. > Editing the text pages is much less difficult than downloading pictures, > and this would just be simple editing. > > > > How the seed would be gotten from grower to requester was also a bit > > of a question. > > How about this: The person seeking an item simply lists his or her e-mail > address, and the person responding writes to the requester privately, > offers the item, gets the requester's mailing address, and sends it. The > PBS would not be involved at all in shipping seeds and bulbs. The two > individuals involved could also discuss exchanges, payment for shipping, > etc., between themselves. > > Jane McGary > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From jglatt@ptd.net Mon May 31 08:46:40 2004 Message-Id: <000301c4470d$e72c3ec0$d19a32d1@oemcomputer> From: "Judy Glattstein" Subject: pollination Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 08:50:46 -0400 A couple of times now I've heard this fabulous lecture on pollination biology by Larry Mellichamp who teaches at UNC in Charlotte, North Carolina and hybridizes sarracenia for fun. Bat pollinated plants are night blooming, often white flowered (though that's often more applicable to moths) and, more importantly, tall - think yuccas - so bats have an easy time getting at the flowers. Close to the ground would be a problem. Lots of flowers have yellow markings, called bee guides, to show insects the way to pollen and nectar. Think of iris, where German iris have fuzzy markings and I. versicolor has coloration at the base of the falls. We humans see a portion of the spectrum egocentrically called "visible light." Insects see further into the ultra violet. Using a black light will make any such "hidden" markings visible to us. Scent is a whole other technique - carrion/ rotting meat often coupled with dark red flowers (Asarum canadense) attracts carrion beetles or flies, sweet fragrances butterflies and bees. Some flowers are bird-pollinated - and not just humming birds. I came across a report that blue tits in England would enter the flowers of Fritillaria imperialis. It's a fascinating topic. Judy in New Jersey where gray skies make me think that it's going to rain on the parade today . . . From trogon777@sprynet.com Mon May 31 16:26:51 2004 Message-Id: <410-220045131202814700@sprynet.com> From: "DEBRA BURGESS" Subject: Hello Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 13:28:14 -0700 Since I am new I thought that I would introduce myself. After reading some of the digests I feel a little in over my head, but hope that you will welcome a neophyte. I live just north of Seattle, zone 8. My special interests include tuberous begonias and hippeastrum. I also have one iris in bloom out front that someone gave me what I think is a wild Pacific coast iris. I just love it. It's like a pure flower without all of the heavy hybridizing. Of course I love the big showy flowers on my tuberous begonias and don't get me started on the hippeastrum! I really enjoy propagation and seed starting. I also have quite a number of fuchsia including many hardies. Thank you, Debra Burgess Lake Stevens, WA From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Mon May 31 18:09:15 2004 Message-Id: <1BUuxq-0y5Sb30@fwd01.sul.t-online.com> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: List of desired seed Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 00:09:02 +0200 Dear All and Dear Dave, It is such a good idea to be able to request seed that I cannot understand no more people responded to this suggestion. I would also agree that it should go through the PBS, why not let our common communication group some profits! I would be more than happy to propagate plants on request or send seed on request, a personal communication between the two people involved usually takes place anyway and is part of the fun! greetings from Germany, Uli From plants_man@bigpond.com Mon May 31 18:16:07 2004 Message-Id: <000a01c4475c$c50578d0$2afa8690@userdamexligce> From: "Daryl Geoghegan" Subject: Image of Nerine frithii. Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 08:14:48 +1000 Greetings on this beautiful day, I wondered if any one had an image of Nerine frithii they could spare. I wanted the image for web building. Thanks. Best wishes, Dash. Daryl 'Dash' Geoghegan, Mainly Amaryllids Garden,P O Box 173, Barnawartha,Victoria,3688, Australia. +61 02 60267377,Mobile 0429 621 612 Visit my web site @ http://www.mainlyamaryllidsgarden.com ------------------------------------------------- ABA Web Site: http://www.ausbulbs.org Checkout the bulb images at http://www.ausbulbs.org/bulbgal/ From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon May 31 18:39:30 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Was pollination - Dracunculus Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 17:40:14 -0500 Dear All; Judy's mention of pollination coincides with the 4 th (of 6) flowers on Dracunculus vulgaris. This is a tuberous aroid of the Mediterranean. For years I was frustrated growing this thing until some kind person sent me larger tubers. I realize now that they take years from seed. Much longer than I anticipated. May be might colder climate and they grow slower. The huge maroon-red spathe opens on the first day and attracts more flies than you thought were in the neighborhood. The smell of 'something dead' can be overpowering. Hope for an 'up' wind. But your nose tells you when a new flower has opened. I just recently heard of a couple of intrepid plant hunters who went to the island of Crete while this stinker was in full bloom. There they collected tubers of a pure white-flowered form and other with various white/maroon marbling in the spathe. There are tales of yellow flowers also. The plant typically has white 'chevron' marks on the multi-part foliage and they found some with highly marked 50/50 green/white foliage too. Really well grown healthy specimens there approach 7 ft in bloom. Wow. I can only hope that as they settle in, more variants will get into the hands of good propagators. I didn't learn if the white flowers smelled any better- or worse. Always something new out there. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 E-fax 419-781-8594 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From thisisnotgonnawork@yahoo.com Mon May 31 20:51:48 2004 Message-Id: <20040601005147.39650.qmail@web40407.mail.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: tissue culture/epi?genetic changes? Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 17:51:47 -0700 (PDT) I remember doing tissue culture of Hippeastrum 'Apple Blossum' and the resulting bulbs looked different in the flowers than the original mother bulb. I hope to post some photos someday and see if the members agree. James Frelichowski. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger From ggroiti@mail.agro.uba.ar Mon May 31 22:29:17 2004 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20040531225634.01de5340@pop3.agro.uba.ar> From: German Roitman Subject: pollination Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 23:29:13 -0300 Hi Judy: As i have worked in pollination some years ago i can add some things. At 09:50 31/05/2004, you wrote: >A couple of times now I've heard this fabulous lecture on pollination >biology by Larry Mellichamp who teaches at UNC in Charlotte, North Carolina >and hybridizes sarracenia for fun. > >Bat pollinated plants are night blooming, often white flowered (though >that's often more applicable to moths) and, more importantly, tall - think >yuccas - so bats have an easy time getting at the flowers. Close to the >ground would be a problem. Not always white, some times are dark red, like in Kigelia, the sausage tree, the long inflorences almost reach the ground, but smell (usually fruit like) is very important. As far as i know Yucca is pollinated by the yucca moth, a small moth that pollinate and lay the eggs in the ovary so the larva can eat the fruit without damaging the seeds. During the nights bats and moths are the most common pollinators but also small mammals (rodents and marsupials) also visit the flowers. Recently a few species of nocturnal bees has been reported visiting orchid flowers in Ecuador. >Lots of flowers have yellow markings, called bee guides, to show insects the >way to pollen and nectar. Think of iris, where German iris have fuzzy >markings and I. versicolor has coloration at the base of the falls. We >humans see a portion of the spectrum egocentrically called "visible light." >Insects see further into the ultra violet. Using a black light will make any >such "hidden" markings visible to us. That´s true, sometimes nectar guides are just that, and there are no reward inside, it use to happen in some orchids, like Bletilla were there is no reward but very big nectar guides in the labellum. >Scent is a whole other technique - carrion/ rotting meat often coupled with >dark red flowers (Asarum canadense) attracts carrion beetles or flies, sweet >fragrances butterflies and bees. There is amazing information about the power of scent to attract pollinators, and sometimes scent is a reward itself, some males of bees use the scent of certain orchids to enhance the power of there own smell and be more attractive to female bees. In this case the one that use is the male not the female. >Some flowers are bird-pollinated - and not just humming birds. I came across >a report that blue tits in England would enter the flowers of Fritillaria >imperialis. Hummingbirds-plants is considered the largest and highly specialized assemblage of flower-feeding birds, but many other birds can visit and sometimes pollinate flowers. In South America at least three or four cases of a very particular bird-flower interaction has been recently reconsidered. I have studied the bird pollination of Myrrhinium a small tree of the mirtaceae. The flowers produce fleshy petals and is visited by Thrushes and mocking birds among others, they eat the petals like fruits and pollinate in that way. >It's a fascinating topic. I completely agree with you Best wishes Germán _________________________________________ Ing. Agr. MSc. Germán Roitman mailto:roitman@mail.agro.uba.ar Cátedra de Jardinería Coordinador de la Carrera Técnica de Jardinería Facultad de Agronomia. Universidad de Buenos Aires _________________________________________