From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Mon Nov 1 02:45:18 2004 Message-Id: <007501c4bfe6$ba34c3e0$25d8403e@John> From: Subject: Cal Hort Meeting Monday November 15, 2004 Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 06:58:12 -0000 One of our members from Oregon is going to be in Northern California in > November, Ernie O'Byrne. His wife Marietta is going to be giving a talk at > the monthly Cal Hort meeting on Monday November 15 entitled, "Hot Borders > -- Cool Plants; Exciting Borders and Interesting Uses of New plants." This should be a fantastic talk: I visited the O'Byrnes in July and their borders are truly sizzling with cool plants. Makes Christopher Lloyd look uninventive. Wish I could be there. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk From ConroeJoe@aol.com Mon Nov 1 18:33:06 2004 Message-Id: <1a3.2b518fcd.2eb821b0@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Manfreda seeds Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 18:33:04 EST Hi, I have Manfreda virginica seeds from southeast Texas, and I'm happy to send them out for S.A.S.E. As always I'm happy to get seeds but no trade is necessary--I'm happy to share these Texas native plants. The seeds are from Montgomery County and Harris County (just north of Houston area and Houston area). They are just about as far west and south as you can find this species. West or South you find other species of Manfreda. Some of the plants have purple spots when stressed, when they are grown in hot, hot sun without fertilizer. However, in the garden, the spots are subtle and hard to see, and the plants produce nice flower stalks. Some say the flowers are fragrant, but I haven't noticed this for myself. If you want seeds please send me a personal email. As always, sending in the USA is easy, overseas can be done sometimes but not always. Cordially, Joe ConroeJoe@aol.com P.S. We finally got a lot of rain, and temperatures cooled off overnight--it was 62 F this morning. I think this extra-long summer is over, temperatures may drop to the mid-50s on Tuesday night (13 C). Rain is predicted for another day or so, 1-3 inches. From ConroeJoe@aol.com Mon Nov 1 20:07:37 2004 Message-Id: From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: APHIS crackdown on noxious weed vendors Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 20:07:34 EST Hi, I found this article this week at the Web edition of the Christian Science Monitor. I always enjoy that newspaper because the articles seem clear, and comprehensive. Apparently, APHIS is ready to start monitoring online sales of seeds and plants of certain species that are considered noxious weeds. I don't know of any bulbs on the noxious weed list but suppose there could be a few. LINK: Newspaper Article http://www.christiansciencemonitor.com/2004/1028/p13s02-sten.html Cordially, Conroe Joe From msittner@mcn.org Tue Nov 2 10:30:46 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041102070415.01eac660@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Another note on pots Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 07:30:04 -0800 Dear All, This thread on white versus black pots I find interesting. A number of years ago I bought white pots and then someone wrote they were worse than black. I had noticed like Paul that there was green on the inside of the pots of some of them when I repot, but those pots were also ones that had tiny drainage holes which were difficult to enlarge. One year I order a large quantity of Dec-Grow granite pots from McConkey Co. They usually sell to nurserymen at wholesale, but were willing to sell to me since I was willing to buy them in quantity. The price was right compared to what I could get elsewhere even though shipping was high. When they arrived I was dismayed since they seemed so light weight and I wasn't sure how long they would last. As I pondered what to do I came on the idea of nesting them. I thought that using two for each planting would make them last longer, but I suspect that it also provides insulation. Using two was still more reasonable than the cost of one of some others. Things have grown very well this way and in addition they seem to be lasting better than some of the heavier more expensive plastic pots. They certainly aren't hot to the touch like some black plastic square one I have (some heavy duty ones that are also lasting, but I have to stuff the four sides with mesh or else the soil comes out). And they rarely are green on the inside either. It would be interesting to place a black one, the white ones, green ones, and terracotta colored ones in a spot getting the same sun and test the soil temperature of each. While I am on this I throw out another related thread and that is what people do for the bottom of their pots. We've talked about mesh from grocery store vegetable bags, heavier duty wire mesh, weed cloth, etc. As I've mentioned the soil comes out in some pots without it and it also seems to prevent the sow bugs from getting in. But Amaryllid roots get caught in some of these things. Some of the members of our group are still adding gravel to the bottom of their pots for "drainage", but others say that just means there is less room for the roots. I've been making side slits in many of my pots at Alberto's suggestion so that water is not trapped at the bottom. It's easy (compared to other pots) to do that with those Dec-Grow containers with regular scissors. They come in granite (whitish) and terracotta colors ranging in size from 6 × 5 ¼ inches to 12 × 10 ¼. As people have time I'd be interested in responses. Thanks. Mary Sue From Nancy.Gilbert@beale.af.mil Tue Nov 2 11:36:04 2004 Message-Id: <3A015C336D8DE5438CC45C4BB03D7DE4057E46@fsbaey08> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC Subject: Another note on pots Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:35:51 -0800 To All, We have verified that black pots do indeed create quite hot internal temperatures, but have also found that white containers are hard to find and generally tend to deteriorate more quickly. After much trial and error, we have settled on Anderson Company's 'deep flats'; Anderson is located in Portland, Oregon. These containers are black, extra heavy duty and are almost indestructable, being used not only in horticulture, but also to grow oysters under seawater. They are also reasonably priced if you order in bulk, as we do. I believe the dimensions are 15" x 15" x 6" deep. The bottom is a heavy duty plastic mesh grid of about 1/2" squares. We line the bottom of each container with weed fabric, which keeps bulbs inside the flat and allows for very good drainage through the perforated flat bottom. We then cover each Anderson deep flat with an inverted standard 17" x 17" flat (ones with large grid patterns)such as supplied by McConkey, and we have a protective cover (we have tree squirrels) for our bulbs that neatly fits right over the outer edges of the Anderson flat. We grow under oak and pine trees so we do have to brush off leaves and pine needles, but growing under the trees provides dappled shade and helps with summer heat problems. Once the leaves have died back on the bulbs, we cover any containers that are getting too hot with shade fabric. Since we are growing faily large numbers of bulbs, this has been the most practical and successful method for us thus far. -Nancy Gilbert Grass Valley, California -----Original Message----- From: Mary Sue Ittner [mailto:msittner@mcn.org] Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:30 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Another note on pots Dear All, This thread on white versus black pots I find interesting. A number of years ago I bought white pots and then someone wrote they were worse than black. I had noticed like Paul that there was green on the inside of the pots of some of them when I repot, but those pots were also ones that had tiny drainage holes which were difficult to enlarge. One year I order a large quantity of Dec-Grow granite pots from McConkey Co. They usually sell to nurserymen at wholesale, but were willing to sell to me since I was willing to buy them in quantity. The price was right compared to what I could get elsewhere even though shipping was high. When they arrived I was dismayed since they seemed so light weight and I wasn't sure how long they would last. As I pondered what to do I came on the idea of nesting them. I thought that using two for each planting would make them last longer, but I suspect that it also provides insulation. Using two was still more reasonable than the cost of one of some others. Things have grown very well this way and in addition they seem to be lasting better than some of the heavier more expensive plastic pots. They certainly aren't hot to the touch like some black plastic square one I have (some heavy duty ones that are also lasting, but I have to stuff the four sides with mesh or else the soil comes out). And they rarely are green on the inside either. It would be interesting to place a black one, the white ones, green ones, and terracotta colored ones in a spot getting the same sun and test the soil temperature of each. While I am on this I throw out another related thread and that is what people do for the bottom of their pots. We've talked about mesh from grocery store vegetable bags, heavier duty wire mesh, weed cloth, etc. As I've mentioned the soil comes out in some pots without it and it also seems to prevent the sow bugs from getting in. But Amaryllid roots get caught in some of these things. Some of the members of our group are still adding gravel to the bottom of their pots for "drainage", but others say that just means there is less room for the roots. I've been making side slits in many of my pots at Alberto's suggestion so that water is not trapped at the bottom. It's easy (compared to other pots) to do that with those Dec-Grow containers with regular scissors. They come in granite (whitish) and terracotta colors ranging in size from 6 × 5 ¼ inches to 12 × 10 ¼. As people have time I'd be interested in responses. Thanks. Mary Sue _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Tue Nov 2 13:03:06 2004 Message-Id: <001201c4c106$2ee91bd0$5bd2f7a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Another note on pots Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:02:56 -0800 Dear All: I have been using the styrofoam boxes that grapes are packed in for some things. They are a bit shallow (about 4"), but the thick styrofoam insulates the potting soil really well. There are holes all around the periphery, so I have to drill a few holes down the middle. They're free!!! I usually only use them for sowing seeds, but some tiny bulbs do well in them too. When I lived in the hot Central Valley, they were outside in full sun, and the seedlings did extremely well in them. I put a torn piece of paper towel over the holes of pots. By the time it has rotted, the roots are filling the pot and holding the potting mix in place. Sometimes I do remove it by just pulling it through the hole. Drainage seems adequate. Diana Telos From khixson@nu-world.com Tue Nov 2 16:14:20 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20041102125157.0260b7c0@mail.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Another note on pots Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:12:55 -0800 Dear Members Diana wrote: >I have been using the styrofoam boxes that grapes are packed in for some >things. In western Oregon, commercial lily growers use milk cartons--the plastic, square containers that hold four, one gallon milk jugs. They start seed or small bulblets in the containers on greenhouse benches, then in spring take them outside and sit them directly on the ground. I've seen rows two containers wide and a quarter mile long, just sitting along the edge of a field of lilies. At the end of the growing season it is easy to tip the contents out, sort the bulbs out, and reuse the containers. Presume they are sterilized, but have never asked. I've never asked about the details, but presume they use peat or peat and perlite. When I pot something with an open bottom, a layer or two of newspaper seems to last long enough that the potting medium consolidates and doesn't fall out. When planted out, the paper can simply be planted with the media. Incidentally, it is often suggested that lilies be simply planted out in blocks (ie, just tipped out of the pot without disturbing the potting mix). Under my conditions, the seedlings invariably rot--presumably because the mix doesn't drain well enough in the garden. Putting "drainage" in a pot is a mistake--a "perched" water table is formed where the soil (or media) texture changes. It isn't always obvious, but it is enough to support a population of pathogenic fungi, and to stop oxygen exchange. A potting mix which is uniform top to bottom is a better choice. Drainage under the pot is a better choice. Ken From jshields104@insightbb.com Wed Nov 3 08:41:47 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041103083304.00b05ad8@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Propagation of Lycoris Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:41:31 -0500 Hi all, A couple months ago we had a lengthy discussion of propagation of Lycoris. On 27 September, I sliced clean bulbs of Lycoris squamigera and place the resulting chips in a tray on the surface of moist vermiculite. The tray was covered with translucent plastic film and placed in a warm area. Today I observe that white, teardrop-shaped bulblets about the size of a pea have formed on many of the chips of L. squamigera. A few days later, I did the same with bulbs of L. sprengeri. A few bulblets are forming on the sprengeri chips also. It appears that Lycoris, like Narcissus and many other plants in the Amaryllidaceae, are readily amenable to propagation by bulb cuttage. Details will be presented elsewhere. Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From Steve.Burger@choa.org Wed Nov 3 12:43:30 2004 Message-Id: <0BAB7B6F7D5A53418C3B75FA01DE2BED05FE1C19@CHOAMAIL4.choa.org> From: "Burger, Steve" Subject: Bletilla striata offsetting and in active growth Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:43:20 -0500 I live in zone 7b in Georgia, USA. We have had an odd "Indian Summer" of sorts, and I'm experiencing a pseudo-spring. My Bletilla is offsetting and pushing up new growth. Can I expect these clumps to be impacted negatively by this? Steve From Steve.Burger@choa.org Wed Nov 3 12:47:48 2004 Message-Id: <0BAB7B6F7D5A53418C3B75FA01DE2BED05FE1C18@CHOAMAIL4.choa.org> From: "Burger, Steve" Subject: Shade loving amaryllids Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:47:03 -0500 Can I get some suggestions for shade loving, summer moisture tolerant, and SE zone 7b hardy amaryllids? For that matter irids too? Thanks, Steve From dejager@bulbargence.com Wed Nov 3 13:01:08 2004 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Shade loving amaryllids Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:01:50 +0100 Steve, Lycoris species are exactly what you are looking for. le 3/11/04 18:47, Burger, Steve à Steve.Burger@choa.org a écrit : > Can I get some suggestions for shade loving, summer moisture tolerant, > and SE zone 7b hardy amaryllids? For that matter irids too? Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence Mas d'Argence 30300 Fourques France tel 31(0)466 016 519 fax 0466 011 245 http://www.bulbargence.com From crinum@libero.it Wed Nov 3 13:35:06 2004 Message-Id: From: "crinum@libero.it" Subject: Bletilla striata offsetting and in active growth Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 19:35:04 +0100 I had this experience a few years ago. After a pseudo-spring we had a very frost winter and I lost almost all my Bletilla. Since then I use to mulch them very well every autumn with leaves: so I had no more problems. Alberto Italy Zone 8 ---------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:43:20 -0500 Subject : [pbs] Bletilla striata offsetting and in active growth > I live in zone 7b in Georgia, USA. We have had an odd "Indian Summer" > of sorts, and I'm experiencing a pseudo-spring. My Bletilla is > offsetting and pushing up new growth. Can I expect these clumps to be > impacted negatively by this? > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Alberto Grossi Italy ____________________________________________________________ Libero ADSL: navighi gratis a 1.2 Mega, senza canone e costi di attivazione. Abbonati subito su http://www.libero.it From ang.por@aliceposta.it Thu Nov 4 02:55:53 2004 Message-Id: <001601c4c221$98d7b800$e80f3352@t7t2y7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: New nerine photos on wiki Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 04:51:01 +0100 Dear friends, the nerine season is at its peak, at least in my area. A new folder has been done for nerine hybrids, where I have added Nerine Purple Prince and Zeal Giant. Here's the link: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NerineHybrids Enjoy Angelo From ConroeJoe@aol.com Thu Nov 4 18:34:51 2004 Message-Id: <1e6.2dfde701.2ebc1696@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Revisiting Scoria Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:34:46 EST Hi, I wanted to chime in and mention that it is absolutely true that scoria is different from pumice--and each acts differently in soil mixes. I can't say if scoria is useful in bulb mixes; I have only tried it on a limited basis. But, I sure do like using it in soil mixes for cacti and succulents where I find if very useful in this wet climate (greater Houston area). I attribute the benefit to the fact that scoria has big bubbles and air pockets (1/16 inch or 1/8 inch, and sometimes larger). I find that by using scoria, I can create a lot of underground air pockets, which seem to be as important as fast drainage in this often humid and rainy climate. I've got 2 bulbous plants growing in mixes of 30% scoria, 30% coarse sand, and 30% perlite (10% humus). The 2 species are Zephyranthes chlorosolen (from very sandy/rocky soil in south Texas, and Alophia drummondii from the same location. Both plants do very well, as well as they do in mixes that are 50% humus and 50% coarse sand. It was just an accident these 2 species came to be in the "cactus mix" and I don't think I'll plant more. Humus and sand are much less expensive materials for soil mixes than is scoria. Conroe Joe Clear and Sunny here, high temp was 65 and low is predicted around 50 F (18 C and 10 C). Fall has arrived finally. From jshields104@insightbb.com Thu Nov 4 19:32:26 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041104191015.00b056b8@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Nerines Blooming Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:32:12 -0500 Hi all, Besides the Nerine bowdenii "Koen's Hardy" that are flowering in the greenhouse, the usual commercial clones of N. bowdenii are also flowering. The blooms on Koen's Hardy look just like those on the other bowdenii (from, e.g., Potterton). It's just that we have seen that the Koen's Hardy can survive outdoors in the ground here. However, Ben Zonneveld did find that Koen's Hardy has about 2 pg less DNA per nucleus than typical bowdenii. According to Ben, Koen's Hardy has 34.6 pg DNA per nucleus. A hybrid that Kelly Irwin sent me a year or two ago is also flowering. N. 'Nikita' looks just like any bowdenii, except that the flowers are a beautiful pale pink! I intend to try pollinating 'Nikita' with Koen's Hardy. I tried pollinating N. 'Dame Alice Godman' with Koen's Hardy, but I don't think any of them took. There is still a chance..... I'm pollinating Koen's Hardy with the robust N. krigei (the one that came labeled "bowdenii wellsii"). N. krigei is of interest because it flowers in July and August, so it's hybrids with bowdenii should be bigger in flower and earlier than October and November to bloom. It also is one of the Nerine species which require chilling to induce bloom the following summer. The "robust" krigei has exactly the same DNA content per nucleus, according to Ben Zonneveld's measurements, as typical N. krigei. I'm also going to try pollinating Koen's Hardy with N. platypetala. This species flowers well in cultivation, just needing to stand in a pan of water in the summer. It is a marsh or bog plant in habitat, and tolerates wet feet, I think crossing bowdenii with platypetala should both move the flowering season to earlier than November, and increase the tolerance for wet growing conditions. I have finally received what should be genuine N. bowdenii wellsii. Once these plants acclimatize and flower, I will have a whole new set of crosses to try. I can't wait! Those of you in mild climates may not appreciate the severe disadvantage here of bulbs that try to flower in November. We have normally had several killing frosts by now. Increasing the hardiness of bowdenii here would be useless if we cannot also move the blooming season up to September or October. If you like nerines, try to get bulbs of N. 'Nikita'. Sorry, I only have the two that Kelly gave me, and they are NOT for sale! The fact that both the bulbs are blooming speaks highly of the culture they received before I got them. Regards, Jim Shields in wet central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From dells@voicenet.com Sat Nov 6 09:08:33 2004 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 80 Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 09:07:16 -0500 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by people from all over the world, to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 80" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER.. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Cynthia Mueller: 1. Seed of Crinum americanum From Bob Werra: 2. small corms of Moraea polystachya From Dell Sherk: 3. Bulbs of mixed rainlilies, mixed sizes. These are from pots which lost their labels. May include Zephyranthes candida, chlorosolen, citrina, drummondii, grandiflora, minima, primulina, reginae, and hybrids and surprises. Also, includes Habranthus brachyandrus, estensis, martinezii, robustus, and tubispathus. Large supply; 10 bulbs per packet. Order multiples if desired. From Dave Brastow: 4. Cypella coelestis ------------- (seed) 5. Trillium parviflorum ------------- (seed) 6. Lilium columbianum ------------- (seed) 7. Camassia leightlinii ------------- (seed) 8. Erythronium oregonum ------------- (seed) 9. Lachenalia aloides quadricolor --- (bulblets) Thank you, Cynthia, Bob, and Dave !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From msittner@mcn.org Sat Nov 6 10:02:47 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041105212806.01cfd860@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Calochortus -- TOW Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 07:02:21 -0800 Dear All, Diana Chapman has kindly taken the time to provide an introduction for Calochortus so we can discuss it in the week or more ahead. Diana will be taking over the editorship of Mariposa, the journal of the Calochortus Society, and is no doubt working on her first issue and is very busy so I really appreciate her doing this for me and all of us. Please share your experiences growing Calochortus and ask questions you have about this genus so we can have a good discussion. Mary Sue CALOCHORTUS TOW Calochortus are truly the treasures of the American West, for while many other genera of bulbous plants native to the west are also beautiful and well worth growing, the variety of form and color found in this large genus is unequalled. Fortunately, these lovely bulbs are becoming better known, and a few of the easier species are available from commerce. The taxonomy of the genus can be somewhat confusing, and there are areas that are in desperate need of revision. For ease of identification, I will give the following more descriptive approach, grouping the genus into three main categories: Mariposa lilies; Star Tulips and Cat's Ears; and Fairy Lanterns. Mariposa lilies: These are tall graceful plants with large upward-facing bowl-shaped flowers that come in a spectacular range of colors. Many species have intricate petals markings that add great beauty to the flower. These are largely bulbs of lowland grasslands, although some can also be found at higher elevations and in desert regions. Many Mariposa Lilies are adaptable and easy to grow, while the high elevation ones are much more challenging. Calochortus luteus is one of the easiest to grow, and is available from the supplier of Dutch grown bulbs. This is a widespread Calochortus of the foothills of California's northern mountain ranges. It has large, brilliant yellow upward-facing flowers, variably marked inside with chestnut brown. Calochortus superbus is likewise, very widespread, its range often overlapping C. luteus. It has large white flowers, sometimes washed with purple on the outside of the petals. It, too, is easy to grow. Calochortus vestae is a magnificent north Coast Range species with huge flowers appearing late in the spring, white tinted and streaked purple, and with beautiful inner markings. There are populations that have pink flowers, and even some of a deep purple. Calochortus venustus is everyone's favorite, since it has the greatest color range of any Calochortus species. The large bowl-shaped flowers range from purest white to all shades of yellow, pink, purple and the deepest crimson. Most of the Mariposas have a basal spot to the petal, but C. venustus usually has another spot, known as an echo spot, on the outer inner petal that is often beautifully colored. C. venustus is found in the Sierra Nevada and the Coast Ranges, with the more colorful ones concentrated in southern California. The challenging Mariposas include those of the desert, such as C. kennedyi, with its gorgeous vermilion flowers, and the high altitude ones, such as C. gunnisonii from the Rocky Mountains. They can be grown, but take dedication and experience to succeed. Star Tulips and Cat's Ears: These are usually small plants with petals that are either smooth (Star Tulips), or densely covered with silky hairs (Cat's Ears). Whoever coined the common name "Cat's Ears" could not have chosen a more suitable term, since the hairy petals look exactly like the inside of a cat's ear. Many of these species grow at higher elevations than Mariposas, although C. tolmiei can be found on coastal bluffs that drop down to the surf, as well as at elevations up to 5,000 ft. in the Coast Ranges and Sierra Nevada. Calochortus tolmiei is the most charming of all the Cat's Ears, with its neat petals completely covered in silky hairs. It is a wonderful rock-garden plant, and comes in a range of colors from white to lavender, pink or purple, often with deep purple or wine colored centers. Calochortus monophyllus is found growing in the shade of shrubby thickets in the Sierra Nevada. It is deep yellow, often with a dark red basal spot to the petal. Calochortus uniflorus is one of the Star Tulips with petals that are largely hairless, having satiny pink petals and deep lavender anthers. This species is one of the easiest to grow, and also has a long bloom season. Other Star Tulips include C. umbellatus, C. nudus and C. minimus. Fairy Lanterns (or Globe Tulips): The pendulous, globe-shaped blooms of this group hang down from the stem, quite unlike other species. These lovely plants are usually found growing in light shade under shrubs and trees on sloping banks. Calochortus albus, found in the Coast Ranges, as well as the Sierra Nevada, is a translucent pearly white, although red varieties are also found, the red hue varying from rusty tints to a beautiful deep purple-red. Each arching stem may carry as many as ten or more flowers. Calochortus amabilis from the Coast Ranges is bright yellow, and is commonly known as "Diogenes' Lantern". Calochortus amoenus is a most beautiful rose pink, and comes from the foothills of the central Sierra Nevada. Growing Calochortus Most Calochortus come from the Mediterranean-type climate of the western USA, growing during the cool rainy winter, then blooming in the spring and going dormant in summer, when they must be kept dry. The exceptions are the high altitude species which are dormant in winter, emerging soon after the snow melts to bloom from mid to late summer. Bulbs can be purchased from suppliers, and there are a few suppliers of wild-collected seed. Most Calochortus are easy to grow from seed, the seed germinating very readily without any kind of special treatment. High-altitude species, however, do need a period of stratification, usually in a refrigerator, to simulate the cold conditions they would experience in nature. Most seed should be sown in the Fall, coinciding with the commencement of the winter rains in California. In regions with mild spring temperatures, sowing can occur up until January or even February, but in areas where spring temperatures can be warm the small seedlings can be forced to go dormant before the bulbs have developed sufficiently if they are sown too late. The easier species can be sown and left outside sheltered from the most severe weather, while seed of high-altitude species can be placed in a ziplock bag with barely dampened vermiculite and left in the refrigerator until the seed starts to germinate, at which time they must be removed and sown as usual. Seed that is stratified can take anywhere from two weeks to three or four months to germinate, depending upon the species. Many of the easier Calochortus will mature and bloom in three years if grown well, while the high altitude species and desert species take longer. From john@johnlonsdale.net Sat Nov 6 10:18:27 2004 Message-Id: <20041106151823.064A54C005@happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: Bletilla striata offsetting and in active growth Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 10:18:22 -0500 Steve, Bletilla striate is hardy here, I have clumps with hundreds of noses per clump and it is spectacular in May, flowering with large clumps of Iris tectorum. I have the Bletilla in a colder situation now, but used to grow them in a very sunny place (they are happy in full sun not just the shade in which they are usually planted) that was much more sheltered. There I encountered the problems you have described, but usually in early spring. The shoots respond quickly to anything they interpret as spring and will extend a couple of inches out of the ground. In this situation they are vulnerable to cold below around 27F - the above ground portions of the shoots will brown and die. If this happens you have to hope that the flower buds weren't also killed - they are generally an inch or two below the tip of the shoot. If just the leaves are hit you end up with truncated leaves with square ends - as if they've been mown or munched by a rabbit. Occasionally the shoot can be completely killed but the rhizomes are just fine. You should protect them as much as possible but don't worry over much - the worst it will cost you is a season's flowers. I have a few things here that have been fooled by our relatively cool and damp summer - a Frit. camschatcensis is flowering - and all my Cyclamen graecum flowered 3 weeks early. J. John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Nov 6 19:13:24 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041106081339.01054ce8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Calochortus -- TOW Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 08:48:06 -0800 Although I live outside the native range of most Calochortus species, I have found most of them unproblematic to grow in large, deep pots plunged in sand, in unheated bulb frames. The only one I grow in the open garden is C. uniflorus, which is native near this region. The other species found near my home is C. subalpinus, but it is difficult to grow because it's adapted to long winter dormancy under unthawing snow cover. C. tolmiei is also reported to grow in the Coast Range across the valley from where I live; it is easy to grow in the frame. As Diana mentioned, much Calochortus seed germinates readily, especially when obtained from Northwest Native Seeds (Ron Ratko). The seed retains its viability for some years in dry storage. The only species I have failed to obtain germination from is C. macrocarpus, a plant of the northern Great Basin and semiarid steppe; others report the same trouble with it. Seeds typically germinate in cool, moist conditions, and here that means bringing them into a frost-free situation as soon as germination occurs. Difficulties ensue, since the seedlings are vulnerable to damping off (treated with a fungicide) and to aphids (treated with systemic granular insecticide). If the seedlings can be kept growing into summer, some but not all of them will form bulbs; in some species a certain proportion fails to do this and is lost. Crowding may be the reason -- some plant species release substances that kill off conspecific competitors within a certain area. This and the damping off have taught me to plant the seeds sparsely in large pots. Many growers prefer to leave the seedling bulbs in the original pots for 2 years, since the bulbs are very small and some germination may be delayed until the second year. If this is done, attention should be paid to fertilizing the plants when in growth. Once potted on or planted out, they should have a dry dormancy. Even those from "monsoon" rain areas of the desert seem able to adapt to "Mediterranean" cycles, in my experience. I repot them every other year and grow them in deep clay or plastic mesh pots, plunged in sand in full sun. All the species I grow have survived temperatures to at least 20 degrees F (minus 7 C). Following are the species that have matured and flowered under this treatment here: Cc. albus, amabilis, amoenus, apiculatus, argillosus, barbatus, bruneaunis, catalinae, clavatus, coeruleus, concolor, coxii, elegans, eurycarpus, excavatus, greenei, gunnisonii, howellii, invenustus, leichtlinii, longebarbatus, luteus, lyallii, monophyllus, nudus, nuttallii, obispoensis, palmeri, plummerae, pulchellus, simulans, splendens, superbus, syntrophus, tolmiei, umpquaensis, uniflorus, venustus, vestae, weedii. I'm also growing some others that have not yet flowered -- it can take 6 or 7 years from seed. Many Calochortus species increase by bulbils formed on the stem near or just below the surface. These start making root growth about now and gradually pull themselves down in the soil as they mature. So when you're cleaning up dried stems in summer, be sure not to throw away these little, hard bulbils. Some Calochortus species hybridize readily, particularly the Mariposa section to which C. venustus belongs. I have a population of hybrids between C. leichtlinii and, I think, C. superbus, for instance. Natural hybrid swarms also occur. The commercially available species include C. venustus in various colors (being grown in Holland as cutflowers), C. luteus (offered as 'Golden Orb'), C. superbus, C. splendens ('Violet Queen' or some such boring Dutch bulb name), and C. uniflorus ('Cupido'). The Dutch method of growing this genus is to store the bulbs at controlled temperature and humidity until late fall, then plant them out very late so they won't break dormancy when the weather is still too cold for them. SInce the fields are essentially pure sand, planting can be done after frost. Pests of mature plants include deer and rabbits, and rodents are known to eat the bulbs. I haven't seen any Botrytis on the plants in the frame, but for some reason there is little Botrytis there anyway. Bulbs that are in moist soil during dormancy are likely to rot. In the garden, it is best to place Calochortus among plants such as clumping grasses and leafy low perennials and shrubs (e.g., Helianthemum) that will support their tall, bare stems and give them some winter protection. Short species such as C. uniflorus and C. tolmiei are suitable for the rock garden. Some of the really tall species with big flowers, such as C. plummerae and C. clavatus, are best appreciated if supported with a natural stake such as a forked branch. However, C. macrocarpus, the tallest of all, has a stout stem -- now if I could only get it growing! Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From toadlily@olywa.net Sat Nov 6 14:32:54 2004 Message-Id: <418D2687.1030100@olywa.net> From: Laura & Dave Subject: Not a new species on BX 80 Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 11:31:19 -0800 Hi all No, I didn't send in seed for a new species of Camassia. The name is supposed to be C. leichtlinii. Since Dell copied the plant list from an e-mail I sent him, the spelling error is all mine. In my defence, the "c key is kinda close to the "g" key, yes? ... well, sorta ... maybe? Dave Brastow From dells@voicenet.com Sat Nov 6 15:55:05 2004 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 80 Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 15:54:49 -0500 I have received your order. Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From Pekasky@aol.com Sat Nov 6 18:36:46 2004 Message-Id: <1de.2ddcae58.2ebeba07@aol.com> From: Pekasky@aol.com Subject: Pacific BX 80 Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 18:36:39 EST Dell: I didn't order anything this time, so you couldn't have received my order. Just want to make sure you don't think you're supposed to send me anything. :>) Marilyn From BBCNURSERY@aol.com Sat Nov 6 20:07:42 2004 Message-Id: <42.5ca36a5b.2ebecf59@aol.com> From: BBCNURSERY@aol.com Subject: Manfreda seeds Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 20:07:37 EST Hi Joe, Do you have any more Manfreda seed? If so I will send a SASE. Greig Pbs From dover74@msn.com Sun Nov 7 05:39:32 2004 Message-Id: From: "Robert Parker" Subject: Pacific BX 80 Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 02:38:17 -0800 DELL: I didn't order anything, either..........WIRES CROSSED ??? SKYLARK >From: Dell Sherk >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 80 >Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 15:54:49 -0500 > > >I have received your order. > >Best wishes, >Dell > >--Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX > > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sun Nov 7 11:03:51 2004 Message-Id: <1f2.21de442.2ebfa160@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Zephyranthes citrina seeds, SASE Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 11:03:44 EST Hi, I have just enough seeds to make 2 packets (25 seeds each). I'm happy to send them to anyone in the USA who wants to send a SASE. Sorry, I can't support more than 2 requests. Contact me privately. First 2 emails get the seed. Joe ConroeJoe@aol.com From msittner@mcn.org Sun Nov 7 15:24:40 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041107111115.0202fbd0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Calochortus -- TOW Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 12:02:14 -0800 Dear All, I too am a Calochortus enthusiast although I'm not as skilled as Diana and Jane in growing them. I have a number of species that do very well for me and others that are less reliable. There are species that are quite happy with my cool wet winter weather and others that are not. Perhaps Jane's frames do the trick for the ones in the latter category. As for growing them from seed I have not found that to be an easy thing. True they do germinate well. I'm not one to rely on chemicals and therefore do not routinely use fungicide on all my seeds. No doubt I'd have better luck if I did. I've found starting seeds in late fall guarantees that they will be coming up and most vulnerable at the worst possible time for my weather. Some of those species that are from areas with a lot of rainfall fare better, but I've lost all the seedlings in dozens of pots some years. If I start them earlier perhaps it would work better, but we always seem to have the warmest temperatures of the year in September and October and wet and warm is not advised either. The last two years I've sowed seeds in February and have had much better success. My summer temperatures are cool enough that I can keep them growing on through part of the summer when they come up in March and even if it is still raining then, it often is raining less and the humidity is not constantly high. Some species I have grown from seed to flowering have dwindled so I still need to do better. Calochortus tolmiei, which is one of my favorites, I have purchased from various sources over the years and the bulbs have enchanted me that first year and then every year I seems to have fewer bulbs. It isn't one that offsets much so if the bulbs die that's it.As Diana points out this one is from many different elevations and habitats so hopefully one of these days I'll be growing some that are happy in my environment. I made the mistake of putting a couple that were still o.k. from two dwindling sources in the same pot since putting one bulb in a specially designed wooden box seemed such a waste of potting mix and space. The two bulbs come up at entirely different times and bloom at entirely different times. One has been in leaf for over a month now when there is no sign of the other. I've also experimented with growing Calochortus in the ground and have some C. vestae which now have bloomed in the ground for 3 years. I made a permanent raised bed for C. albus and it seems happy enough too. But that is the sum of my success. Strangely C. uniflorus which grows a couple of miles from my home in grassland overlooking the ocean has not been happy in my ground 800 ft. higher. In a container it blooms for months (and months earlier than in habitat) however so I don't know what that is about. I gave some to a friend who planted them in the ground at a lower elevation in a shadier spot and they did fine for a couple of years until the deer discovered them. I'm trying to provide a little shelter from the rain for some of the southern California species from drier areas by growing them in my covered shelter that is open at the sides and that may be helping a little. Many of the ones I am growing are in deep wooden boxes my husband built me out of pieces of redwood since the Robinetts suggested this was a good way to grow them. They advised not to grow Calochortus in black plastic as the soil would get too hot. Running out of boxes I've also used my deep terracotta colored pots with large slits up the sides. It is interesting if you unpot them to find the mother bulb at a very deep level, but in many cases the small offsets formed in the leaf sheaf at a entirely different level. Jane mentioned this in her comments, but I've always wondered if nature intended them to be at a higher level until they were bigger. These are the ones I am most successful with in my wet Northern coastal climate: C. albus, amabilis, amoenus, argillosus, catalinae, luteus, splendens(but it is marginal), superbus, umpquaensis, umbellatus, uniflorus and vestae. I lose some C. venustus every year but it is one that makes offsets so I may be about even. C. nitidus which is not a California species has been blooming for me the last couple of years. C. palmerii and nudus have departed and C. clavatus, plummerae, simulans, and weedii are in the dwindle mode. Some of those haven't bloomed yet. I have a few other species that may not last long enough to bloom. I recently read in one of my old Mariposas that Jim Robinett had trouble growing C. clavatus in his climate because it was too wet for it and I'm wetter than he was. Could it be started late like the seed I wonder by controlling the watering? When I repot in the fall some of them are already forming roots and some are not. A number of years ago someone from Idaho reported success growing Calochortus in a very cold climate. The secret was a lot of mulch and not much winter rain so that his plants did not emerge until spring. I think the quality of Ron Ratko's Calochortus seed is really exceptional and most years the Mariposa society members donate seed that is shared and it is good too. I accept responsibility that it is my technique that is the problem. The ones I am successful with range from very charming to spectacular and extend my bulb blooming season every year. Some of the members of this list were experimenting with higher elevation species that probably need chilling. Diana has mastered getting the seed to germinate using the technique she told about. What I'd like to know is if anyone is growing these long enough to get them to bloom and if they have to be chilled every year like tulips. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sun Nov 7 22:43:01 2004 Message-Id: <64.4795fd61.2ec04540@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Will the real Zephyranthes citrina please stand up Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 22:42:56 EST Hi Gang, A smart reader wrote to me, " Z citrina was supposed to come from Demerara in British Guiana for many decades until Thad Howard found it in Yucatan Peninsula, Mexico. Apparently the Dutch propagated it in quantity by bulb cuttage and seed is seldom seen around. I wonder if this is the real thing? " So, I wonder if my Z. citrina seeds are really Z. citrina seeds; is there a plant in the trade that masquerades as Z. citrina? I've heard/read that Z. citrina makes seeds via apomixis, and perhaps this is what my plants have done (what I assumed). But, perhaps my yellow-flowered rain lilies are not Z. citrina? My plants came from Plant Delights Nursery about 3 years ago, and sure do perform well in the garden. Cordially, Conroe Joe From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Nov 8 12:26:13 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Shade loving amaryllids Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 10:14:38 -0500 >Can I get some suggestions for shade loving, summer moisture tolerant, >and SE zone 7b hardy amaryllids? Steve; The top candidate here are Lycoris species. You can grow dozens if you can find them. Do a goggle for the Bulbmeister, Telos, Fairweathter Nursery, Plant Dleights to name a few. > For that matter irids too? > Crested iris in general -I cristata, I tectorum and possibly I japonica. La iris will tolerate some light shade, not deep shade Crocus- some species like C. banaticus love these conditions. Misc. Galanthus, Leucojum vernum, too. Under deciduous trees try Scilla, daffodils etc. Lots of choices, but depends on degreee of shade. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick Near KCI Airport Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From ConroeJoe@aol.com Mon Nov 8 19:19:36 2004 Message-Id: From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Lachenalia and Albuca Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 19:19:25 EST Hi, I'm hoping to get pointers from you all about "easy" and "pretty." I've been doing my research and have seen some great info on the PBS Wiki, other places, as well as photos that make me kookoo to grow these plants. But, I wonder if PBS members have advice. Are there members of either genus that are easier-than-commonly-known or which are prettier-than-the-photos-indicate? I have had such great luck with Albuca shawii that I wonder if there are a few more gems out there to try. As always, SilverHill seeds has way too many choices for my wallet, and I don't know how to choose. As for Lachenalia, I'd really appreciate some expert opinion about how to balance beauty with ease-of-culture. If you can guide me I'd appreciate it. Conroe Joe Sunny days, 55 F at night, no rain for a while From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Nov 8 19:33:05 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041108162937.01074cb0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Scilla lingulata Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 16:33:03 -0800 I couldn't resist posting a second photo of Scilla lingulata ssp. ciliolata on the wiki, since the one I photographed last year is even better this year: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Scilla What a cheerful little bulb to have flowering in mid-November -- and it stays open on dull days, too. On top of all that, it has a delightful fragrance similar to lilacs. I don't think this succulent-leaved bulb would do well in the open garden anywhere but California; however, it is so small (the flowering stems reach only about 3 in/7.5 cm) that you can pack a pot full of it. It increases pretty fast, too. Barring disaster I should have some available next summer. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From dkramb@badbear.com Mon Nov 8 21:08:51 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20041108210752.01c02800@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Shade loving amaryllids Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 21:08:53 -0500 I will second Jim's notion of LA's for semi-shade. Iris brevicaulis in particular will love it there. Iris tridentata (not a Louisiana) should also do well. It is native to SE USA. Dennis in Cincinnati At 10:14 AM 11/8/2004, you wrote: >>Can I get some suggestions for shade loving, summer moisture tolerant, >>and SE zone 7b hardy amaryllids? > >Steve; > The top candidate here are Lycoris species. You can grow dozens > if you can find them. Do a goggle for the Bulbmeister, Telos, > Fairweathter Nursery, Plant Dleights to name a few. > >> For that matter irids too? > Crested iris in general -I cristata, I tectorum and possibly I > japonica. > La iris will tolerate some light shade, not deep shade > Crocus- some species like C. banaticus love these conditions. > >Misc. > Galanthus, Leucojum vernum, too. Under deciduous trees try > Scilla, daffodils etc. > > Lots of choices, but depends on degreee of shade. > > Jim W. >-- >Dr. James W. Waddick >Near KCI Airport >Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 >USA >Ph. 816-746-1949 >Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Mon Nov 8 22:41:25 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041108190157.01626100@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Will the real Zephyranthes citrina please stand up Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 19:14:04 -0800 Dear Joe, I'm not a rain lily expert. Most of them aren't happy in my climate although I found that Zephyranthes candida growing in the same pot with my Meyer lemon and getting drip irrigation every day and citrus fertilizer is finally in its element. It has been in flower for more than 3 months now. I've looked through my archives to see what I could find on Z. citrina. There is this from Paul Niemi in a post about this genus: "Yellow is very common as well, being represented by Z. pulchella, Z. reginae, Z. citrina, forms of Z. katherinae, Z. smallii, Z. jonesii, Z. flavissima and others. Interestingly, the majority of the yellow species are prone to be either apomictic or parthenogenic (older terms that may have been replaced by more modern terminology) tendencies and will generally reproduce true-to-type regardless of what pollen is applied to the stigma." Paul Tyerman asked for the difference between Z. flavissima and Z. citrina and Paul Niemi responded with this: "Z. flavissima is closely related to Z. candida, Z. minima and Z. stellaris (these 4 are sometimes grouped in the subgenus 'Argyropsis'). Side by side Z. flavissima and Z. citrina are easily discernable. The former probably (under ideal conditions) has a longer bloom season with smaller flowers and a very small & delicate stigma. It clumps more readily than does Z. citrina, has narrower foliage with a brighter green color (more akin to the foliage of Z. candida) and prefers moister, even waterlogged conditions; it is also at times reluctant to set seed. Z. citrina is a larger plant with considerably larger bulbs, slower to offset, very adept at setting seed with larger flowers and it prefers dryer conditions and it tends to bloom later in the season. There is some difference in flower color but I don't believe it is a drastic color. Z. flavissima is much more difficult to locate whereas Z. citrina is found everywhere. Plants called Z. citrina were also called Z. sulphurea, but that doesn't appear to be a valid name. A number of people were selling something they called Z. citrina in 2000. I don't know if any of this will help answer your question. Mary Sue From blueberries@acadia.net Tue Nov 9 08:20:43 2004 Message-Id: <000801c4c65e$e6a78420$968c6341@s1099927558> From: "cindy and bruce" Subject: Narcissus alpestris Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 08:20:35 -0500 I am seeking a source for Narcissus alpestris. There seems to be some confusion over the name for this plant, but from what I can find the Narcissus Pseudonarcissus Moschata(var) is not the plant I am looking for. In the Random House Book of Bulbs the plant should be N. psuedonarcissus Moschata -they say it was formerly called Narcissus alpestris Pugsley. From what I am finding the Moschata is a regular daffodil like flower not the drooping petalled alpestris. At any rate, I need help. I have only been able to find Moschata. From thisisnotgonnawork@yahoo.com Tue Nov 9 09:54:38 2004 Message-Id: <20041109145409.58812.qmail@web52905.mail.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: online amaryllids Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 06:54:09 -0800 (PST) Check ebay folks for 'amaryllis' there's some interested hybrids with cybister. James. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Nov 9 11:05:28 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041109080312.0109fee0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Scilla lingulata Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 08:05:24 -0800 As usual I did something wrong when mentioning a newly posted photo. The link in my previous message apparently sends one to a photo of a Scilla posted by Harold Koopowitz. I thought that if I just took the file name of the photo link back to "Scilla" it would go to the text page, but it apparently is called something else. To see the mentioned photo of Scilla lingulata subsp. ciliolata, go to Photographs and Information, and thence to the Scilla page, and click on the SECOND link under the description of that species. Sorry. Jane McGary From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Tue Nov 9 12:11:34 2004 Message-Id: <001e01c4c67f$24ab2a40$cea779a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Lachenalia and Albuca Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 09:11:23 -0800 Hello Joe: I am not growing many Albucas, but Albuca spiralis is so unique that I think it is well worth growing. The leaves are like rubber, and twisted in tight corkscrews, all neatly arranged around the flower spike (they are blooming now). It's a small plant, only about 6-8" tall. Albuca tortuosa has been very easy for me, suffering outdoors in very bad weather, and going on to bloom in the spring and early summer. The flowers are yellow, striped green and are held upwards. It blooms very freely. Diana Telos ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 4:19 PM Subject: [pbs] Lachenalia and Albuca > Hi, > > I'm hoping to get pointers from you all about "easy" and "pretty." I've been > doing my research and have seen some great info on the PBS Wiki, other > places, as well as photos that make me kookoo to grow these plants. > > But, I wonder if PBS members have advice. Are there members of either genus > that are easier-than-commonly-known or which are > prettier-than-the-photos-indicate? > > I have had such great luck with Albuca shawii that I wonder if there are a > few more gems out there to try. As always, SilverHill seeds has way too many > choices for my wallet, and I don't know how to choose. As for Lachenalia, I'd > really appreciate some expert opinion about how to balance beauty with > ease-of-culture. > > If you can guide me I'd appreciate it. > > > Conroe Joe > Sunny days, 55 F at night, no rain for a while > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Tue Nov 9 12:35:31 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041109091743.00b949a0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Scilla lingulata Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 09:24:10 -0800 Hi Jane, Your Scilla is really nice. I hope you'll have some for your surplus list next year. You directed people to the Scilla folder files page, not the Scilla wiki page. Your picture wasn't there yet as images only go into a folder if Jay, one of the Marks or I move them there. As soon as I read your email I moved it to the folder so probably a number of people got to see it if they read your email after I moved it and figured out that they should sort the pictures by date. The Scilla wiki page with text describing images is: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Scilla Mary Sue PBS Wiki Administrator From msittner@mcn.org Tue Nov 9 12:35:28 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041108191429.01621770@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Lachenalia and Albuca Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 09:35:05 -0800 Dear Joe, I'm a big fan of Lachenalia and I don't think it photographs well. I noticed that when I saw it in the wild with some very notable exception it didn't grab your attention as some of the other things did. For one thing it often has dramatic leaves and/or spotted stems and to capture them and the flower both is a challenge. But it means like Cyclamen you can enjoy the leaves even when it isn't yet flowering. I think they are much more attractive than you'd realize from looking at pictures of them. What is pretty to me however may not be pretty to you and what is easy probably varies too by climate and resources (shelter, greenhouse, etc.) for growing them. There are a number from very dry areas that I have a difficult time growing, but someone in Southern California might find easy. Graham Duncan's book, The Lachenalia Handbook, describes how easy each species is in cultivation, at least for him. It is well worth getting if you are going to grow many of these species. I absolutely love most of the Lachenalia aloides varieties. One that did well for years outside for me was recently offered in the BX (L. aloides quadricolor). It would start blooming in winter and stand up to rain and was so bright and colorful. L. aloides aurea is another one I don't think looks as good in a photo as in person, but I give it high marks. Lachenalia unicolor/pustulata (very similar and hard to tell apart) I think of as very easy, quick from seed. L. orthopetala and L. contaminata with similar leaves are also very attractive, long blooming. For massing, L. mutabilis and L. pallida are good. For leaves and flowers both: L. nervosa and L. purpureo-caerulea. I think you'd really just have to go by what appeals to you. Many of them are not very hardy. Where you live it doesn't usually get that cold, but you still might have to protect them from time to time in winter. One cold year I lost most of mine. Most of the easily obtainable species are winter growing and best kept dry in summer which I expect might be more of a challenge for you. Most people tell you not to store them out of their pots. You'd probably be better advised by someone in the south who has tried growing these. Anyone out there in that category? My Albuca spiralis has never had coiled leaves, alas, but the one I put a picture of on the wiki is nicely sprung at the moment. I like its leaves better than I do its flowers however, but that's just a personal opinion, not meant to offend any Albuca fans. Mary Sue From jshields@indy.net Tue Nov 9 14:24:58 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041109140952.01ff1d60@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Lachenalia and Albuca Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 14:24:55 -0500 Hi Joe and all, I think Lachenalia are strongly a matter of personal taste. I have to grow mine inside the greenhouse of course. Right now, L. rubida is in full bloom, but starting to fade a bit. Flower buds are just starting to shoot on L. viridiflora. This and rubida are probably my favorites. L. mutabilis and L. pustulata seem to be too weedy for my taste. That is, the leaves are etiolated and pale. The scapes are long, lanky, and tend to flop over. This may be due to the relatively weak sunlight here in the North in winter, at 40°N latitude, compared to the stronger winter sun they get in South Africa at ca. 33°S latitude. Besides, here they are under glass, but there they are under the wide open sky! If I were only going to grow two varieties, they would be LL. rubida and viridiflora. L. rubida increases very abundantly, while viridiflora increases much more slowly. I am also rather fond of L. aloides quadricolor and of L. bulbifera. L. bulbifera increases fast while quadricolor seems to increaser more slowly. Best regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) USDA zone 5, 40°N, 83°W, el. ca. 800 ft (240 m) above sea level Avg. minimum temp ca. -12°F (ca. -24°C), avg. high temp ca, 96°F (ca. 35°C) Avg. annual precipitation ca. 30 to 40 inches (750 - 1000 mm) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From Steve.Burger@choa.org Tue Nov 9 14:27:39 2004 Message-Id: <0BAB7B6F7D5A53418C3B75FA01DE2BED0550FC6C@CHOAMAIL4.choa.org> From: "Burger, Steve" Subject: Many thanks Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:27:37 -0500 I have asked a few question lately of the mailing list. I haven't had the opportunity to thank everyone individually, but I have gotten quite a few good leads on my pursuits. Thanks, Steve From ConroeJoe@aol.com Tue Nov 9 17:53:17 2004 Message-Id: <20.3789fec7.2ec2a459@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Eucomis vandermerwei Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 17:53:13 EST Hi, An email garden friend sent me seeds of Eucomis vendermeiwei last winter. I started them indoors under fluorescent lights, with the aloes and agaves--long days and bright light. In spring I moved them outdoors and they started growing rapidly. But, by July they were not doing too well--I think the 30 days of rain in June was not agreeable and the hot summer temperatures didn't seem to help them. So, I kept them a bit dry (hard to do here in summer) and now they have started growing again with the cooler days of Fall. October was quite hot, but nights were often 70 F rather than 80 F, and it was dry. I guess this purported summer grower has 2 seasons here in the greater Houston area--spring and fall. I'll keep them out till they obviously complain about the cold and then will dry them down and put them away till next spring. Who knows, perhaps they won't mind our mild winters--last year the low was 25 F a few nights, maybe they will grow all winter. They sure are attractive, even the little seedlings, with the purple-spotted leaves. Conroe Joe From Nancy.Gilbert@beale.af.mil Tue Nov 9 18:09:16 2004 Message-Id: <3A015C336D8DE5438CC45C4BB03D7DE4057EAD@fsbaey08> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC Subject: Calochortus Hybrids Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 23:09:08 -0000 My husband, Ames, and I happened on some interesting Calochortus hybrids in the Mt. Diablo park this spring. One type appeared to be a hybrid between C. umbellatus and C. pulchellus and it had all the intermediate characteristics you would expect if you married the two. We found three plants, all within a small area, that appeared to be these hybrids. Later in the spring Ames returned and found a very unique Calochortus blooming; If I have time I will post some photos and get opinions on it. If I were to guess, based simply on apperances, I would say that it was a hybrid between C. luteus and and C. umbellatus or C. luteus and C. pulchellus. It was the only plant of this type and was really unusual. It looked like a miniature, lemon yellow mariposa that was too shy to fully open. Has anyone every heard of these species hybridizing before? Nancy Gilbert From ConroeJoe@aol.com Tue Nov 9 18:52:46 2004 Message-Id: From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Not exactly a bulb question Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 18:52:42 EST Hi, I am looking for advice (especially the voice of experience) for germinating terrestrial bromeliad seeds. I would especially appreciate knowing the secret for keeping the seedlings alive after germination and growing them on to plants. I have killed several species of terrestrial bromeliad (e.g., Puya and Dyckia) after easily germinating them in sandy soil mix. The problem is that they don't make/keep roots and eventually die as tiny little plants, about 1/8 or 1/4 inch tall. When they are bigger I have no problem growing them. They seem ideally suited to year round rain punctuated with 1-, 2-, or 3-month droughts as long as they have fast drainage. Sometimes they don't even insist on sandy soil, only fast-draining humus-rich soil. They are great companions for Crinum (see, I made a bulb connection), in the garden. The Crium do well in the ground, and the terrestrial bromeliads do well in pots--the contrast of leaves and flowers can be very nice. Please write to me if you know how to keep the darn seedlings alive. Conroe Joe From john@johnlonsdale.net Tue Nov 9 19:23:37 2004 Message-Id: <20041110002336.EF0CF4C005@happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: Scilla lingulata Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 19:23:26 -0500 This is indeed a beautiful plant, and Jane has grown it to perfection. It is all too ready to push up the flower spikes in search of light - with the result that they get a bit lax and floppy. I've taken to putting my pots outside whilst they are coming into flower, then protecting them in the greenhouse over the winter. It is a perfect candidate for a cold frame which gets full light and protection only when necessary, presumably how Jane grows it so well. I have several forms, and the variation in flowering time is very wide, separated by at least 6 weeks. My first in flower is a form from Tony Goode which flowers before the leaves form, the last is flowering now. There are also considerable differences between the leaves, both degree of glaucousness and also habit, from prostrate and succulent to upright. The bulbs build up very quickly and the only pest I've ever seen was mealy bug on the dormant bulbs in late summer before I started treating with Imidacloprid just before dormancy. Tony mentioned his form grows outside in his eastern UK garden; I'm going to try a few outside here next year, but doubt they do well, if at all. Over 80% of my scillas went into the garden this summer so it will be an interesting winter! J. John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From robertwerra@sbcglobal.net Tue Nov 9 19:43:22 2004 Message-Id: <20041110004322.25389.qmail@web81002.mail.yahoo.com> From: Robert Werra Subject: Calochortus Hybrids Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:43:22 -0800 (PST) ear Nancy, I look forward to seeing the picture of the pale yellow poorly open globe calochortus. 120 mi. north of your site we have Calochortus amabilis(rich yellow globe) and Calochotus tolmei(small openfaced furry white-"pussy ears.") They grow in the same semi shaded hillside which I fenced from the ravenous deer 25 yrs. ago. Since then they bloom in profusion, and in some areas cheek by jowl. There are four plants as you descrobe. They come back but seldom set seed. I tried to germinate the occasional few seeds, but have been unsuccesful. I have pictures but I'm too unskilled to put them on internet. In the Sierras, Their is a cross between Cal. albus(white globe) and Cal. monophyllus(yellow cat's ear.) Sincerely, Bob Werra \ --- Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC wrote: > My husband, Ames, and I happened on some interesting > Calochortus hybrids in > the Mt. Diablo park this spring. One type appeared > to be a hybrid between C. > umbellatus and C. pulchellus and it had all the > intermediate characteristics > you would expect if you married the two. We found > three plants, all within > a small area, that appeared to be these hybrids. > Later in the spring Ames returned and found a very > unique Calochortus > blooming; If I have time I will post some photos and > get opinions on it. If > I were to guess, based simply on apperances, I would > say that it was a > hybrid between C. luteus and and C. umbellatus or C. > luteus and C. > pulchellus. It was the only plant of this type and > was really unusual. It > looked like a miniature, lemon yellow mariposa that > was too shy to fully > open. > Has anyone every heard of these species hybridizing > before? > Nancy Gilbert > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From tglavich@sbcglobal.net Tue Nov 9 19:55:33 2004 Message-Id: <20041110005532.72820.qmail@web80803.mail.yahoo.com> From: Thomas Glavich Subject: Not exactly a bulb question Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:55:32 -0800 (PST) Start them in late April or May. I use coir, pumice (or perlite) and granite sand in near equal proportions, with the seeds just pressed in the potting mix, and a light gravel coating. I use a wet mix, in a plastic bag and start under lights. Keep them humid, with bright light throughout the seedling phase. I do mine in Southern California under 50 to 70% shade cloth. Spray the small plants with a weak liquid fertilizer after about 6 weeks. They don't have many roots, but like all bromeliads can absorb water and nutrients through the leaves. If the seed mix compacts, they won't set roots. If you see this happening, replant the small seedlings into a fresh loose mix. Tom ConroeJoe@aol.com wrote: Hi, I am looking for advice (especially the voice of experience) for germinating terrestrial bromeliad seeds. I would especially appreciate knowing the secret for keeping the seedlings alive after germination and growing them on to plants. I have killed several species of terrestrial bromeliad (e.g., Puya and Dyckia) after easily germinating them in sandy soil mix. The problem is that they don't make/keep roots and eventually die as tiny little plants, about 1/8 or 1/4 inch tall. When they are bigger I have no problem growing them. They seem ideally suited to year round rain punctuated with 1-, 2-, or 3-month droughts as long as they have fast drainage. Sometimes they don't even insist on sandy soil, only fast-draining humus-rich soil. They are great companions for Crinum (see, I made a bulb connection), in the garden. The Crium do well in the ground, and the terrestrial bromeliads do well in pots--the contrast of leaves and flowers can be very nice. Please write to me if you know how to keep the darn seedlings alive. Conroe Joe _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Tue Nov 9 20:36:43 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041109173024.02035100@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Calochortus Hybrids Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 17:36:18 -0800 Dear All, A number of years ago Mike Mace tried to create hybrids between the different groups. I think he reported that when they bloomed, they didn't look like hybrids, but like one of the species. Mike, if you are paying attention to this discussion, can you comment. I was amused to just see that Bob Werra's post was just rejected by a Queensland email program because it "was found to contain inappropriate content". This email program has also rejected a number of Jim McKenney's posts so apparently has a high standard for acceptable language. Perhaps it is the common name of C. tolmiei that is the problem? I guess we need to stick to cat's ears. Mary Sue From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Tue Nov 9 20:48:50 2004 Message-Id: <000c01c4c6c7$68081c10$97a779a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Calochortus Hybrids Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 17:48:36 -0800 Dear All: I haven't seen too many hybrids on my wanderings, except for hybrids between C. luteus and C. superbus. These are extremely common where their ranges overlap. I grew a large pot full of hybrid bulbs from one seed pod from a wild hybrid (these are not sterile, obviously), and the color range was amazing - all shades of white through cream, pale yellow to deep yellow. Diana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Sue Ittner" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Calochortus Hybrids > Dear All, > > A number of years ago Mike Mace tried to create hybrids between the > different groups. I think he reported that when they bloomed, they didn't > look like hybrids, but like one of the species. Mike, if you are paying > attention to this discussion, can you comment. > > I was amused to just see that Bob Werra's post was just rejected by a > Queensland email program because it "was found to contain inappropriate > content". This email program has also rejected a number of Jim McKenney's > posts so apparently has a high standard for acceptable language. > > Perhaps it is the common name of C. tolmiei that is the problem? I guess we > need to stick to cat's ears. > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From eagle85@flash.net Tue Nov 9 22:41:25 2004 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Scilla lingulata Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 18:37:37 -0800 Jane McGaryDoug Westfall janemcgary@earthlink.net11111Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > I couldn't resist posting a second photo of Scilla lingulata ssp. ciliolata > on the wiki, since the one I photographed last year is even better this year: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Scilla > > What a cheerful little bulb to have flowering in mid-November -- and it > stays open on dull days, too. On top of all that, it has a delightful > fragrance similar to lilacs. > > I don't think this succulent-leaved bulb would do well in the open garden > anywhere but California; however, it is so small (the flowering stems reach > only about 3 in/7.5 cm) that you can pack a pot full of it. It increases > pretty fast, too. Barring disaster I should have some available next summer. > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon, USA > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Antennaria@aol.com Tue Nov 9 23:06:41 2004 Message-Id: <6a.48e9ed04.2ec2edcd@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Was Calochortus Hybrids, now email filtering Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 23:06:37 EST In a message dated 11/9/04 10:42:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org writes: From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Re: [pbs] Calochortus Hybrids To: Pacific Bulb Society pbs@lists.ibiblio.org I was amused to just see that Bob Werra's post was just rejected by a Queensland email program because it "was found to contain inappropriate content". This email program has also rejected a number of Jim McKenney's posts so apparently has a high standard for acceptable language Hiya, As one who works in an IT group supporting approx. 300 people, and the person who strategically develops the spam filtering "dictionaries" for our email system, I wouldn't read too much into the so-called "high standard for acceptable language". Spammers use every trick in the book, so to combat their wily tricks, one gets aggressive in adding words and phrases that are *weighted* to fail the spam test. Since, in most systems that employ spam filtering in a serious way, the email recipient can establish their own "accept list" or "white list" of acceptable domains or specific email addresses, and as well, there is a corporate "accept list" or "white list", there is considerable incentive to be aggressive with the email filtering. A year ago, in our 300-person firm, we averaged 12,000 spam messages per day. Today, only a year later, we average 116,000 spam messages a day. Our users have the ability to review their spam, and accept any messages or domain names that were inappropriately quarantined. So far as the "feel-good" anti-spam legislation that came out last year in the USA, it is of course, exactly that... "feel good" but utterly ineffective legislation. Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From tony@plantdelights.com Wed Nov 10 07:37:08 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20041110073706.01316ec8@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: Eucomis vandermerwei Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:37:06 -0500 Joe: We have a small plant of Eucomis vandermerwei that didn't like our summer either, but we have hope that it will perform better when it grows larger. We saw large production rows of this in Holland this summer, so it should be imported on a limited basis in a couple of years. You can see a photo on our expedition log at http://www.plantdelights.com/Tony/holland.php and scroll down to Monday August 9. At 05:53 PM 11/9/2004 EST, you wrote: >Hi, > >An email garden friend sent me seeds of Eucomis vendermeiwei last winter. I >started them indoors under fluorescent lights, with the aloes and agaves--long >days and bright light. > >In spring I moved them outdoors and they started growing rapidly. But, by >July they were not doing too well--I think the 30 days of rain in June was not >agreeable and the hot summer temperatures didn't seem to help them. > >So, I kept them a bit dry (hard to do here in summer) and now they have >started growing again with the cooler days of Fall. October was quite hot, but >nights were often 70 F rather than 80 F, and it was dry. > >I guess this purported summer grower has 2 seasons here in the greater >Houston area--spring and fall. I'll keep them out till they obviously complain >about the cold and then will dry them down and put them away till next spring. >Who knows, perhaps they won't mind our mild winters--last year the low was 25 F >a few nights, maybe they will grow all winter. > >They sure are attractive, even the little seedlings, with the purple-spotted >leaves. > > >Conroe Joe >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From hornig@usadatanet.net Wed Nov 10 08:30:58 2004 Message-Id: <9730-2200411310133057468@M2W053.mail2web.com> From: "hornig@usadatanet.net" Subject: Eucomis vandermerwei Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:30:57 -0500 Needless to say, E. vandermerwei *loves* the summers up here in Little South Africa, aka upstate New York. Unfortunately I neglected to get any into the ground, and since the ground is frozen this morning, it won't happen today. Maybe in a day or two, when it warms up. It comes from a fairly cold area -though I don't really expect it to survive our formidable winters (but I must try). As someone suggested earlier this year, when I inquired on this list, leaf cuttings "take" at a high rate (when seeds aren't available). It is a wonderful little plant! Who out there is growing Eucomis schijffii? Any experiences with that in the open garden? It should be quite cold-hardy. I am now the proud owner of 2 young bulbs and 9 new seedlings thereof, so am not ready to sacrifice my own stock to hardiness experiments. While I think of it: if anyone has a bit (small bulb, seeds) of E. humilis to trade, I would love to get hold of some - Ellen Ellen Hornig Seneca Hill Perennials Oswego NY USA Zone 5; avg. annual snowfall 3m/10ft Original Message: ----------------- From: Tony Avent tony@plantdelights.com Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:37:06 -0500 To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] Eucomis vandermerwei Joe: We have a small plant of Eucomis vandermerwei that didn't like our summer either, but we have hope that it will perform better when it grows larger. We saw large production rows of this in Holland this summer, so it should be imported on a limited basis in a couple of years. You can see a photo on our expedition log at http://www.plantdelights.com/Tony/holland.php and scroll down to Monday August 9. At 05:53 PM 11/9/2004 EST, you wrote: >Hi, > >An email garden friend sent me seeds of Eucomis vendermeiwei last winter. I >started them indoors under fluorescent lights, with the aloes and agaves--long >days and bright light. > >In spring I moved them outdoors and they started growing rapidly. But, by >July they were not doing too well--I think the 30 days of rain in June was not >agreeable and the hot summer temperatures didn't seem to help them. > >So, I kept them a bit dry (hard to do here in summer) and now they have >started growing again with the cooler days of Fall. October was quite hot, but >nights were often 70 F rather than 80 F, and it was dry. > >I guess this purported summer grower has 2 seasons here in the greater >Houston area--spring and fall. I'll keep them out till they obviously complain >about the cold and then will dry them down and put them away till next spring. >Who knows, perhaps they won't mind our mild winters--last year the low was 25 F >a few nights, maybe they will grow all winter. > >They sure are attractive, even the little seedlings, with the purple-spotted >leaves. > > >Conroe Joe >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From msittner@mcn.org Wed Nov 10 11:27:53 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041110082430.00a20520@mail.mcn.org> From: "diana chapman" (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Calochortus--TOW--High Elevation Species Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:27:25 -0800 From 2000: In this discussion, I will try to cover some of the high-altitude species that can be somewhat more challenging to grow. These species absolutely require a cold winter, and their smaller stature can make some a very desirable addition to the rock garden in suitable climates. Although they are generally tolerant of summer water, exposed as they are to the summer storms of the mountains, like all Calochortus they require excellent drainage, with the desert species requiring very dry growing conditions. Most species make superb alpine house subjects. The alpine species of Calochortus are dormant in winter, making most of their growth in spring after the snows melt, and blooming in early to late summer, when they then scatter their seed and go dormant. Some High Altitude Mariposas: Calochortus gunnisonii --- This beautiful Calochortus is found in the Rocky Mountains, usually around 2-3000m, where it experiences extremely severe winters, making it the hardiest Calochortus in the entire genus. Flowers are upward facing, white, pink or lavender, with the interior lower one third covered with black based golden hairs. There is often a deep purple band separating the hairy part of the petal from the upper two thirds. Calochortus leichtlinii --- Generally found around 1500-4000m all down the backbone of the Sierra Nevada mountains, as well as the higher altitudes of the mountain ranges of northern California and southern Oregon. This is a beautiful species, a dazzling white that is difficult to describe with black or very dark crimson markings at the base of the petals. There are some yellow markings at the base of the petals, although in the ones I grow, these are not very prominent. It is quite common in its range. Calochortus bruneaunis --- This species occurs mainly in the mountain ranges of the Great Basin, growing in very dry, cold conditions with very high light intensity. It is somewhat similar in appearance to C. leichtlinii, with some golden markings in the center. Calochortus excavatus --- This lovely species superficially resembles both C. leichtlinii and C. bruneaunis, and comes from a very restricted area on the eastern slopes of the Sierra Nevada in its southern end, around Bishop and the Owens Valley. This, too, comes from very harsh desert conditions with cold winters. Calochortus panamintensis --- As the name suggests, this species is from the Panamint mountains of southern California growing in very dry, cold, desert conditions very similar to the habitat of C. bruneaunis at elevations of 2500-3500m. The flower is white tinted lilac, with a very prominent green stripe to the outside of the petal, and often a deep purple spot around the nectary. Calochortus nuttallii --- This may be the most widespread Calochortus of all, occurring as it does from Nevada northeast into the Dakotas, and southeast into New Mexico, occurring generally in high desert conditions. In the southern part of its range, however, conditions are somewhat milder than in the northern region, therefore different populations may require different growing conditions. Flowers are white to deep pink with brownish markings above the nectary, and lacking an exterior green stripe on the petal. This species is commonly called Sego lily, derived from its Shoshone name. Calochortus macrocarpus --- Found in central Washington, across Idaho into the northern part of the Great Basin, and extending northward up to British Columbia, this species also covers and extremely extensive range. In the high desert regions at elevations of over 1500m where this species grows it endures very cold winters throughout most of its range, in addition to extremely hot summers. Flowers are large, light to deep purple, with a prominent green stripe to the outside of the petal. There is usually a deep purple band above the nectary. High Altitude Star Tulips: Calochortus minimus --- As the name suggests, this is the smallest Calochortus, growing only about 10cm tall, and comes from the high elevations of the central Sierra Nevada. While not showy, with its plain white petals, it does have a certain charm, and is reputed to be one of the easier high altitude Calochortus to grow. Calochortus nudus --- Somewhat similar in appearance to C. minimus, this species grows in the northern range of the Sierra Nevada. The range of both of these species overlaps, and hybrids can be found in the overlapping region. C. nudus has pink to lavender flowers, also unmarked, but the flowers are larger. High Altitude Cat's Ears: Calochortus subalpinus --- This species is found in mountain meadow habitats in the Cascade mountains of Oregon and Washington, where, unlike the high altitude Mariposas, it occupies a range that receives very heavy rainfall which occurs mostly in winter, but it is also exposed to summer rains. The flowers are upward facing, the petals completely covered with silky hairs, and the color range is cream, pale yellow or buff. Calochortus tolmiei --- This species can occur at sea level, but is most commonly found at higher elevations of up to 2000m, in the Coast Range of California, as well as the Sierra Nevada, and the northern California ranges into Oregon and Washington. This is a small species, with a very neat growth habit, usually of about 25-20cm. Flowers come in a range of white, lavender, pink and violet, often with deep purple central markings, and the petals are densely hairy. This beautiful Calochortus is quite easy to grow. Calochortus coeruleus --- Found in the northern Sierra Nevada and the northern Coast Ranges, but more commonly found at high altitude in Oregon and Washington, this species superficially resembles C. tolmiei but is white tinted blue. Growing the High Altitude Species: These species have always had a reputation for difficulty, but this may be because many Calochortus lovers (such as ourselves) are growing them in mild-winter regions, where both seed and bulbs do not receive adequate winter chilling. In addition, many of the alpine species require rather cool summers to successfully complete their growth cycle. Obviously, no-one will be able to grow all of the species mentioned, but some are really worth trying, especially for those IBS members who live where winters are severe. Seed: Seed of many species can be had from Northwest Native Seed (Ron Ratko), Southwestern Native Seed, or the Archibalds. Seed of all the species mentioned must be sown in the fall, and stratified in the refrigerator for those who live in warmer climates than USDA zone 6. The exception to this is C. tolmiei, which can be sown in fall and exposed to winter weather in zones 7 and 8. I usually place the seed in very slightly damp peat or vermiculite in a zip-lock plastic bag, and place it in the food compartment of the refrigerator in about October (northern hemisphere). The seed absolutely should NOT be frozen, even when you are germinating seed from a species such as C. gunnisonii that would be in frozen or close to frozen ground for months. Once the seed has imbibed moisture, freezing can be fatal. Seed bags should be checked about once a week after the first month, and any germinated seed should be potted up. All species should be left in the refrigerator UNTIL THEY GERMINATE - i.e. until you see the emergence of a radicle. Some species will require three or four months at refrigerator temperatures, but some will germinate sooner. The alpine desert species from southern California need to be potted in a very free draining mix containing very coarse grit or perlite (or both), and a little lime, since the soils they grow in desert regions are on the alkaline side. Other Calochortus species do not seem fussy about pH. Seedlings should be kept in a covered area to protect from excessive rain, but exposed to winter temperatures. Obviously, if you live in a region with cold winters (USDA zone 6 or colder), you will be able to sow your seed in the fall and leave your seed pots outside exposed to the weather, but protected from birds and rodents. Most of the alpine species have a much shorter growing period than the low elevation species, and therefore the bulbs will take longer to mature. Bulbs: If your winters are mild, it will be necessary to refrigerate your bulbs each winter. This can be done by removing the bulbs from your pots, and putting them in dry peat in the food compartment of your refrigerator each winter, starting in about October. It is necessary to check the bulbs every two weeks or so for root growth, for if they start energetically producing roots, you will need to take them out and pot them up. Some species need extended refrigeration (up to four months), while others need only six to eight weeks. The ideal refrigerator temperature for the chilling of Calochortus is one or two degrees above freezing. I have to admit that I haven't been growing some of the above species long enough for them to bloom, but most seem to be doing well so far. Bringing a more difficult or rare species to flower is a special joy in itself, and many of these species should prove easier for those member who live in colder climes than California. Diana From Steve.Burger@choa.org Wed Nov 10 12:32:46 2004 Message-Id: <0BAB7B6F7D5A53418C3B75FA01DE2BED0550FC7F@CHOAMAIL4.choa.org> From: "Burger, Steve" Subject: Eucrosia bicolor Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:31:57 -0500 How hardy is this plant? I get the impression it's a zone 9er, but sometimes the literature is too conservative. Does anyone hava any experience with this one in cooler climates? Steve From piabinha@yahoo.com Wed Nov 10 12:33:08 2004 Message-Id: <20041110173307.69407.qmail@web51908.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: OT: inappropriate content? Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:33:07 -0800 (PST) --- Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > I was amused to just see that Bob Werra's post was > just rejected by a > Queensland email program because it "was found to > contain inappropriate > content". This email program has also rejected a > number of Jim McKenney's > posts so apparently has a high standard for > acceptable language. that reminds me the time i did an internet search for "succulents" or "succulent plants" and got an X-rated site among the results. they were advertising pics of "succulent" girls. someone i know in canada who imports and wholesales tropical fish got many of his emails to customers in the US automatically rejected by email programs because of the word "Negro," as in Rio Negro (in the Amazon, from where many of his fish come from), because it can be considered offensive. as if he didn't have enough trouble with the all the spam filters inadvertently filtering out his emails to customers... ===== tsuh yang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com From msittner@mcn.org Wed Nov 10 12:35:02 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041110093356.01e67e10@mail.mcn.org> From: DaveKarn@aol.com (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Narcissus alpestris Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:34:41 -0800 Dear Blueberry?? (a name to specifically address would have been nice . . .) I am seeking a source for Narcissus alpestris. Lots of luck!! The true thing is one of the rarest daffodil species. It is a denizen of high mountain meadows in Spain and used to cold winters with, I think, snow cover. At any rate, it is a difficult plant to grow and never has been anything like plentiful! There seems to be some confusion over the name for this plant, but from what I can find the Narcissus Pseudonarcissus Moschata(var) is not the plant I am looking for. In the Random House Book of Bulbs the plant should be N. psuedonarcissus Moschata -they say it was formerly called Narcissus alpestris Pugsley. From what I am finding the Moschata is a regular daffodil like flower not the drooping petalled alpestris. At any rate, I need help. I have only been able to find Moschata. N. ps moschatus is the correct name for the "drooping petalled" flower. It is whitish, has forward leaning petals that largely parallel the trumpet-shaped corona and is available in the trade (particularly England) from time to time. N. alpestris has long been described similarly but it is a smaller flower of the same configuration but a clear white in color. Current thinking (depends on the botanist one follows, I guess) is that alpestris is simply a smaller form of moschatus. Take your pick. A lot of narcissus botanical nomenclature is in flux. Much of it was not described from in-depth field studies but herbarium specimens and, like all human-created things, resistant to change. Recent studies of wild populations are questioning some of these earlier descriptions. In particular, those field observations of the Englishman, John Blanchard and the American, Katherine Andersen. Best, Dave Karnstedt Cascade Daffodils Silverton, Oregon, USA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Nov 10 21:10:45 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041110092651.010b31c8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Calochortus--TOW--High Elevation Species Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:42:00 -0800 After reading Diana's excellent summary of subalpine and inland Calochortus species, I'm somewhat amazed that I've been able to grow any of them. My climate, southeast of Portland, Oregon, at 1600 feet/500m elevation in the Cascades foothills, is not particularly cold: most winters it doesn't go below 15 F/-8 C, though about one winter in four is colder. I have everything from C. catalinae (southern California coastal) to C. bruneaunis in the same frame, treated the same way, so perhaps these inland species are more adaptable than we may think -- as long as some climate control can be maintained, here consisting of limiting overhead moisture (moisture rising from the soil beneath is constant in winter, and unavoidable in my system). Some specific comments on Diana's notes: >Calochortus leichtlinii - one of the more vigorous species I grow. Calochortus bruneaunis --- This species occurs mainly in the mountain >ranges of the Great Basin, growing in very dry, cold conditions with very >high light intensity. It doesn't get any of that here, but it has been flowering faithfully, rather late in the season, for 6 or 7 years. I don't think it's suffering in the typical low light of a western Oregon winter, since the stems remain upright. It's definitely the happiest Rocky Mountain/Great Basin species I grow. Calochortus excavatus --- This lovely species superficially resembles >both C. leichtlinii and C. bruneaunis, and comes from a very restricted >area on the eastern slopes of the Sierra Nevada in its southern end, around >Bishop and the Owens Valley. This, too, comes from very harsh desert >conditions with cold winters. I was surprised when C. excavatus flowered here last spring, probably 7 years frow sowing. It does not seem vigorous but has survived. This gives me hope for C. kennedyi and C. striatus, now present here as 3-year-old seedlings. >Calochortus subalpinus --- This species is found in mountain meadow >habitats in the Cascade mountains of Oregon and Washington, where, unlike >the high altitude Mariposas, it occupies a range that receives very heavy >rainfall which occurs mostly in winter, but it is also exposed to summer >rains. Actually, winter precipitation where this species grows is mostly in the form of (very deep) snow. I have not seen it below the usual winter snow line (i.e., where continuous snow cover begins) It's saturated in spring after snowmelt, and brief summer thunderstorms. The soils where it grows are volcanic and, where I've seen it, extremely rocky and well drained. I've never been able to germinate the seed of this or of another nearly local plant, C. macrocarpus. Good thing I can drive for an hour or so and see them in the wild! Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From msittner@mcn.org Wed Nov 10 14:50:50 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041110114051.01e7ea20@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Narcissus alpestris/pseudonarcissus moschatus Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:50:29 -0800 Hi, Dave Karnstedt embedded a picture of Narcissus pseudonarcissus moschatus photographed by Becky Matthews last spring in his message today. Since we don't allow html and limit the size of messages on our pbs list his message did not make it through and I copied and pasted the text portion of the message to answer Cindy's question. A long time ago Dave got permission from Becky to add her picture to the wiki, but it required resizing and renaming and I didn't get it done before I forgot about it. I've now made the changes and added it to the wiki and would appreciate Dave making any necessary corrections to the text on it and Narcissus alpestris which Jane McGary added earlier in the year. Originally he wanted Tony Avent to see what it looked like and to compare it with N. alpestris. So here it is belatedly. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Narcissus Mary Sue From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Wed Nov 10 21:11:02 2004 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Eucrosia bicolor Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 02:10:35 +0000 >From: "Burger, Steve" >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: "Pacific Bulb Society" >Subject: [pbs] Eucrosia bicolor >Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:31:57 -0500 > >How hardy is this plant? I get the impression it's a zone 9er, but >sometimes the literature is too conservative. Does anyone hava any >experience with this one in cooler climates? > >Steve >_______________________________________________ Hi Steve: Rather than a 9er take it for 10er. I have grown this and two other species in the genus and all demand warm conditions even when dormant in winter. Otherwise they are as easy to flower as Phaedranassas and the flowers are spectacular and long lasting. E. bicolor offsets like mad. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.latam.msn.com/ From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Wed Nov 10 21:39:22 2004 Message-Id: <001a01c4c797$92dc0b60$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Eucrosia bicolor Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:38:46 -0500 They do well in zone 8a outside of gainesville, FL. Cover them in the winter while dormant and they should come back. Mine have seen temps into the mid 20'sF and flower vigorously. Then again, they should be shaded and that shade will often kep frost crystals from settling on the plants directly. Kevin D. Preuss www.Amaryllis-Plus.com From cjthomp48@yahoo.com Wed Nov 10 21:42:07 2004 Message-Id: <20041111024207.29156.qmail@web52409.mail.yahoo.com> From: Corey Thompson Subject: Neomarica germination Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:42:07 -0800 (PST) Hello everyone: Would anybody be able to give me some tips on germinating Neomarica seeds? I have seeds of N. sabini, N. pulchella and several other unidentified species that I would like to start, but I have no idea whether they need light/darkness, cool/warm temperatures, if they will sprout in three days or three years, etc. Thanks for any help and/or comments, Corey __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com From jshields@indy.net Thu Nov 11 08:23:21 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041111081952.00b05b90@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Calochortus--TOW--High Elevation Species Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:23:19 -0500 Hi all, The seeds of Calochortus macrocarpus need stratification to germinate -- I treat them like seeds of Gladiolus imbicatrus: put seeds in a small plastic zip-top bag, add a little moisture, and put in the refrigerator. Every few weeks, look to see if any have germinated yet. When they do, plant them in a flat and after planting, don't let them dry out too much until they are well established. My problem is keeping them alive after I get them germinated. Jim Shields in central Indiana At 09:42 AM 11/10/2004 -0800, you wrote: >The soils where it grows are volcanic and, where I've seen it, extremely >rocky and well drained. I've never been able to germinate the seed of this >or of another nearly local plant, C. macrocarpus. Good thing I can drive >for an hour or so and see them in the wild! > >Jane McGary >Northwestern Oregon, USA ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Thu Nov 11 12:22:02 2004 Message-Id: <003101c4c812$c7b4d4e0$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Shade loving amaryllids Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:20:39 -0500 > >Can I get some suggestions for shade loving, summer moisture tolerant, > >and SE zone 7b hardy amaryllids? > > Steve; Try: eucharis x grandiflora Eucrosia bicolor Phaeranassa'a Hymenocallis (many speceis) Hippeasrtum reticulatum var. srtiatifolium and their hynrids Hipp. puniceum Crinum jagus C. moorei Caliphuria subdentata/ Eucharis fosterii Eurycles cunninghamii, possibly even some Ismene/Elisene Pancratiums Scadoxus multiflorus Some agapanthus... Hope this helps lil' bit. Kevin D. Preuss www.Amaryllis-Plus.com From jshields@indy.net Thu Nov 11 14:10:15 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041111140604.00b06a38@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Storing Pollen Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:10:11 -0500 Hi Folks, As many of you already know, you can cross two plants without having them both in bloom at the same time. You just have to collect, dry, and store the pollen when it is available on the plant. I get asked how to do this often enough that I have put up a web page describing my methods. The material there now is my first rough draft. I expect to refine it later. You can find my comments at: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/amaryllids/PollenStorage.html If you have questions about the page, or want to correct some of my errors, please contact me at: Regards, Jim Shields in chilly, wet central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Thu Nov 11 14:55:26 2004 Message-Id: <142.388ba463.2ec51dac@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Neomarica germination Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:55:24 EST In a message dated 11/10/2004 9:42:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, cjthomp48@yahoo.com writes: >Would anybody be able to give me some tips on >germinating Neomarica seeds? Check the PBS archives. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2002-October/011766.html From msittner@mcn.org Thu Nov 11 19:27:12 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041111160710.00dc9610@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Fall Blooming Crocus Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:26:35 -0800 Dear All, We get email to our list all the time from people who are not members and are responding to our archives. Arnold and I attempt to answer these as we can, usually encouraging people to join the list and ask their question directly, but occasionally forwarding the message on if we can figure out who they were trying to contact. And of course we just get rid of the spam without responding. This fall a woman wrote with a Crocus identification question. I encouraged her to join our group knowing we had some really knowledgeable people who could help her and gave her the url for Tony Goode's site, but I never heard back. She was especially unhappy because she said most web sites including our wiki did not mention if the leaves came up before, after, or with the leaves and when the plants bloomed. She thought that would help her in figuring out what she had. Having spent some time looking at Tony's site I know it's a bit more complicated than that, but I thought she had a valid point. I looked at the wiki and indeed she was right. There was not a lot of text information about the plants, although a few species were well described. I have attempted to add what I could consulting Tony's site and Mathew's The Smaller Bulbs since it has quite a lot of detailed information about Crocus. Some of you who know more than I do may want to check it for accuracy and change it as needed. After I did that the wiki page was really long so I pulled out the ones that bloom in the fall. I recently added two more pictures of Crocus niveus which is a gorgeous thing with HUGE (for a Crocus it seems) white flowers. I've really been enjoying it thanks to the NARGS seed exchange. I moved it out of the rain the last couple of days and am hoping for some sunshine tomorrow. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/FallBloomingCrocus Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Thu Nov 11 19:55:14 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041111163520.022cbeb0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Calochortus--TOW Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:54:52 -0800 Dear Diana, I am interested in knowing whether you are getting the high elevation species to bloom that you successfully got to germinate using your techniques. I am wondering if like Tulips some of us in warmer climates than Jane would need to refrigerate them each year. I grow some high elevation Triteleias and they do fine in my climate although they don't emerge sometimes until February but I wonder about Calochortus. I tried refrigerating my Daubenya aurea this year after Alan Horstmann told me he had success with that (and after it didn't even come up last year) and when I checked it, it had good roots and was starting to shoot so I potted it up and it is now growing. But there is only so much room in our tiny second refrigerator and I've already moved my tulips there. Also no one gave me an opinion about whether you could start some of the ones from dryer climates later to miss the worst of our rainy season and have success. Surely there must be a few others growing Calochortus who can share their experiences. Bob Werra grows a lot of them in my county, but in a hotter in summer, colder in winter location. I've seen some of his pictures and have loved his descriptions (Calochortus venustus tomato for example.) And we know some of you in Australia are growing them and I expect many others. Which ones are you growing Nancy (Gilbert)? And how about some of you who grow them only in greenhouses? Which ones respond to those conditions? Mary Sue From vikingdoc@earthlink.net Thu Nov 11 20:25:23 2004 Message-Id: <410-22004115121266760@earthlink.net> From: "Kathy Stokmanis" Subject: Fall Blooming Crocus Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 17:26:06 -0800 This is the first year that I have managed to get fall-blooming crocus established in my garden and it has had a surprisingly powerful emotional impact. Born and raised in a much colder zone, Crocus and miniature Iris were the first flowers of spring. To see them emerging, often in the middle of snow, was an event I looked forward to even as a small child. Seeing these fall blooms has resulted in a similar lifting of my spirits, even though I live in a comparatively balmy climate with numerous plants still in bloom. Kathy Stokmanis Sunset zone 7, seems more like 8 or 9. My first Nerine is in bloom and took me completely by surprise because it somehow got into a huge pot with unrelated plants. What a gift plants are. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Nov 12 12:07:56 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041111182833.0105bad8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Fall Blooming Crocus Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:55:53 -0800 Mary Sue wrote, >This fall a woman wrote with a Crocus identification question. ... She was especially unhappy >because she said most web sites including our wiki did not mention if the leaves came up >before, after, or with the leaves and when the plants bloomed. Here is a list of fall-blooming species, derived from Mathew's "The Crocus" . Some of these species (C. autranii, C. gilanicus, C. hyemalis, C. veneris) are extremely rare in cultivation (i.e., yr. faithful correspondent does not possess them, which is what "rare in cultivation" usually implies; unless the writer is really narcissistic and writes "not in cultivation"). C. autranii: leaves emerge long after flowering C. asumaniae: leaves barely visible at flowering C. banaticus: leaves emerge long after flowering C. biflorus ssp melantherus: leaves slightly visible at flowering C. cancellatus: leaves not or barely emerged at flowering C., cartwrightianus: leaves well developed at flowering C. gilanicus: leaves emerge long after flowering C. goulimyi: leaves partly emerged at flowering C. hadriaticus: leaves barely to well developed at flowering C. hermoneus: leaves not to barely visible at flowering C. hyemalis: leaves well emerged at flowering C. karduchorum: leaves emerge long after flowering C. kotschyanus: leaves not visible at flowering C. laevigatus: leaves slightly to well developed at flowering C. longiflorus: leaves partly emerged at flowering C. mathewii: leaves well emerged at flowering C, medius: Leaves emerge long after flowering C. moabiticus: leaves barely visible at flowering but developing soon after C. niveus: leaves slightly visible at flowering C. nudiflorus: leaves emerge long after flowering C. ochroleucus: leaves slightly emerged at flowering C. oreocreticus: leaves slightly emerged at flowering, soon developing C. pallasii: leaves barely to well emerged at flowering C. pulchellus: leaves emerge long after flowering C. sativus: leaves well developed at flowering C. scharojanii: leaves emerge long after flowering but often persist until flowering C. serotinus: leaves not visible to equalling flower, depending on subspecies and population C. speciosus: leaves emerge long after flowering C. thomasii: leaves well emerged at flowering C. tournefortii: leaves well developed at flowering C. vallicola: leaves emerge long after flowering C. veneris: leaves slightly to well emerged at flowering Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From btankers@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org Fri Nov 12 09:04:22 2004 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A0AA334@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Fall Blooming Crocus Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:05:56 -0600 Hi Mary Sue: Do you think Crocus niveus would survive in the Chicago region, blooming as late as it does? We got our first killing frost in late September, then had a couple of nice weeks of Indian summer. Weather since then has been on the cool side but no real dips into the lower 20's yet. Many thanks, Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Fri Nov 12 10:32:25 2004 Message-Id: <001001c4c8cc$cdfeadc0$5ea079a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Calochortus--TOW Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:32:21 -0800 Dear Mary Sue and All: I haven't yet brought my more difficult Calochortus species to bloom, but I did conduct a little experiment with C. leichtlinii. I refrigerated half the bulbs each winter, but left the rest outside in our mild winters where we experience very little frost, and few nights even near freezing. The refrigerated bulbs were much more vigorous when they came into growth and bulked up at a much greater rate. In fact, the unrefrigerated bulbs did not seem to increase in size hardly at all. It is likely that Jane gets enough winter chill for her high altitude bulbs, even though her climate doesn't come close to the Great Basin conditions, or conditions at 6000'. I don't think any bulbs (or plants) actually need freezing temperatures, but may need a certain amount of time at temperatures between freezing and about 40F - that's why chilling crocus and tulip bulbs in the refrigerator works. We had discussed some time back winter chill needs of other plants, such as fruit trees, since this has been studied extensively, and I believe one of our more knowledgeable members contributed information regarding this. Winter conditions where I live are very mild - not exactly warm, but probably not cold enough for some of the high altitude Calochortus species to get the requisite number of hours of winter chill, although that very likely will vary according to species. Diana From btankers@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org Fri Nov 12 11:40:14 2004 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A0AA335@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: [POSSIBLE SPAM ] - Re: [pbs] Calochortus--TOW - Bayesian Filter detected spam Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:41:43 -0600 Hi Diana: Can you refer me to anyone who has grown the high elevational Calochortus in the upper Midwest? Many thanks, Boyce -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of diana chapman Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 9:32 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [POSSIBLE SPAM ] - Re: [pbs] Calochortus--TOW - Bayesian Filter detected spam Dear Mary Sue and All: I haven't yet brought my more difficult Calochortus species to bloom, but I did conduct a little experiment with C. leichtlinii. I refrigerated half the bulbs each winter, but left the rest outside in our mild winters where we experience very little frost, and few nights even near freezing. The refrigerated bulbs were much more vigorous when they came into growth and bulked up at a much greater rate. In fact, the unrefrigerated bulbs did not seem to increase in size hardly at all. It is likely that Jane gets enough winter chill for her high altitude bulbs, even though her climate doesn't come close to the Great Basin conditions, or conditions at 6000'. I don't think any bulbs (or plants) actually need freezing temperatures, but may need a certain amount of time at temperatures between freezing and about 40F - that's why chilling crocus and tulip bulbs in the refrigerator works. We had discussed some time back winter chill needs of other plants, such as fruit trees, since this has been studied extensively, and I believe one of our more knowledgeable members contributed information regarding this. Winter conditions where I live are very mild - not exactly warm, but probably not cold enough for some of the high altitude Calochortus species to get the requisite number of hours of winter chill, although that very likely will vary according to species. Diana _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Nov 12 12:17:07 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041112091349.010ef768@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Fall Blooming Crocus Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:17:04 -0800 Boyce Tankersley at the Chicago Botanic Garden wrote:wrote: >Do you think Crocus niveus would survive in the Chicago region, blooming >as late as it does? We got our first killing frost in late September, then >had a couple of nice weeks of Indian summer. Weather since then has been >on the cool side but no real dips into the lower 20's yet. There's really no way to predict from experience on the Pacific coast how a given bulb will behave in the upper Midwest. The best way to find out is to plant some and see what happens over a period of 3 or 4 years. I can, however, attest that the flowers of this species recover without apparent harm after frosty nights, since we've had frosts most nights the past 10 days here, and it's in flower in the rock garden, looking good. It increases rapidly in the bulb frame and I should have plenty available next summer. As Mary Sue mentioned, it's also one of the easier species to grow from seed. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From Nancy.Gilbert@beale.af.mil Fri Nov 12 12:53:40 2004 Message-Id: <3A015C336D8DE5438CC45C4BB03D7DE4057ECB@fsbaey08> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC Subject: Calochortus--TOW Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:53:41 -0000 Mary Sue, The only high elevation Calochortus we are presently growing is C. leichtlinii. It germinates without pre-treatment at our elevation (2700' in the Sierra foothills). However, it grows 'very' slowly and we have a few blooms after five years. If we find the spare time for more experiments, we might try some of the other high elevation species as well. -Nancy Gilbert -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Mary Sue Ittner Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 4:55 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Calochortus--TOW Dear Diana, I am interested in knowing whether you are getting the high elevation species to bloom that you successfully got to germinate using your techniques. I am wondering if like Tulips some of us in warmer climates than Jane would need to refrigerate them each year. I grow some high elevation Triteleias and they do fine in my climate although they don't emerge sometimes until February but I wonder about Calochortus. I tried refrigerating my Daubenya aurea this year after Alan Horstmann told me he had success with that (and after it didn't even come up last year) and when I checked it, it had good roots and was starting to shoot so I potted it up and it is now growing. But there is only so much room in our tiny second refrigerator and I've already moved my tulips there. Also no one gave me an opinion about whether you could start some of the ones from dryer climates later to miss the worst of our rainy season and have success. Surely there must be a few others growing Calochortus who can share their experiences. Bob Werra grows a lot of them in my county, but in a hotter in summer, colder in winter location. I've seen some of his pictures and have loved his descriptions (Calochortus venustus tomato for example.) And we know some of you in Australia are growing them and I expect many others. Which ones are you growing Nancy (Gilbert)? And how about some of you who grow them only in greenhouses? Which ones respond to those conditions? Mary Sue _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From theotherjen88@msn.com Fri Nov 12 13:03:04 2004 Message-Id: From: "JENNIFER HILDEBRAND" Subject: treasurer's new email address Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:02:36 -0500 Hi all, I've just completed the change-over of the email address that I use for PBS. You can now reach me through this address (theotherjen88@msn.com) if you have any questions. Best, Jennifer From btankers@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org Fri Nov 12 14:13:44 2004 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A0AA338@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: [POSSIBLE SPAM ] - RE: [pbs] Fall Blooming Crocus - Email found in subject Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:15:18 -0600 Hi Jane: Thanks for the response. It is going on my wish list for next year's bulb orders. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Jane McGary Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 11:17 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [POSSIBLE SPAM ] - RE: [pbs] Fall Blooming Crocus - Email found in subject Boyce Tankersley at the Chicago Botanic Garden wrote:wrote: >Do you think Crocus niveus would survive in the Chicago region, blooming >as late as it does? We got our first killing frost in late September, then >had a couple of nice weeks of Indian summer. Weather since then has been >on the cool side but no real dips into the lower 20's yet. There's really no way to predict from experience on the Pacific coast how a given bulb will behave in the upper Midwest. The best way to find out is to plant some and see what happens over a period of 3 or 4 years. I can, however, attest that the flowers of this species recover without apparent harm after frosty nights, since we've had frosts most nights the past 10 days here, and it's in flower in the rock garden, looking good. It increases rapidly in the bulb frame and I should have plenty available next summer. As Mary Sue mentioned, it's also one of the easier species to grow from seed. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From eez55@earthlink.net Fri Nov 12 22:52:06 2004 Message-Id: <4120041161335244560@earthlink.net> From: "Eugene Zielinski" Subject: Calochortus--TOW - Bayesian Filterdetected spam Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:52:44 -0500 Claude Barr's Jewels of the Plains may be worth looking at. The book is probably out of print, but I've seen it in libraries. Eugene Zielinski Augusta, GA > [Original Message] > From: Boyce Tankersley > To: Pacific Bulb Society ; diana chapman > Cc: > Date: 11/12/04 11:41:43 AM > Subject: RE: [POSSIBLE SPAM ] - Re: [pbs] Calochortus--TOW - Bayesian Filterdetected spam > > Hi Diana: > > Can you refer me to anyone who has grown the high elevational = > Calochortus in the upper Midwest? > > Many thanks, > > Boyce > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of diana chapman > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 9:32 AM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: [POSSIBLE SPAM ] - Re: [pbs] Calochortus--TOW - Bayesian Filter > detected spam > > > Dear Mary Sue and All: > > I haven't yet brought my more difficult Calochortus species to bloom, = > but I > did conduct a little experiment with C. leichtlinii. I refrigerated = > half > the bulbs each winter, but left the rest outside in our mild winters = > where > we experience very little frost, and few nights even near freezing. The > refrigerated bulbs were much more vigorous when they came into growth = > and > bulked up at a much greater rate. In fact, the unrefrigerated bulbs did = > not > seem to increase in size hardly at all. > > It is likely that Jane gets enough winter chill for her high altitude = > bulbs, > even though her climate doesn't come close to the Great Basin = > conditions, or > conditions at 6000'. I don't think any bulbs (or plants) actually need > freezing temperatures, but may need a certain amount of time at = > temperatures > between freezing and about 40F - that's why chilling crocus and tulip = > bulbs > in the refrigerator works. We had discussed some time back winter chill > needs of other plants, such as fruit trees, since this has been studied > extensively, and I believe one of our more knowledgeable members = > contributed > information regarding this. Winter conditions where I live are very = > mild - > not exactly warm, but probably not cold enough for some of the high = > altitude > Calochortus species to get the requisite number of hours of winter = > chill, > although that very likely will vary according to species. > > Diana > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From blueberries@acadia.net Sat Nov 13 12:08:58 2004 Message-Id: <000b01c4c9a3$78313700$b08d6341@s1099927558> From: "cindy and bruce" Subject: Narcissus alpestris Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 12:08:59 -0500 Dear Mary Sue, I am not sure how to work this forum. I wish to thank Dave Karnstedt for his info. Do all the posts go through you? Is there a way to respond to the responder? Do I go back to my original message and somehow add my climate info? Thank you for your help. Dave said he would liked to have had a name to address. I thought that my name would be posted. Sorry for all the questions . This is a new protocol for me. Sincerely, Cindy Gerry From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sat Nov 13 12:23:01 2004 Message-Id: From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Rain Lily Seedlings, What About Crowding? Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 12:22:54 EST Hi, How crowded, and how long, can I safely keep rain lily seedlings in a gallon pot. They came up heavily, and are like a lawn of mondo grass now, at 1 year old and some at 1 1/2 years. Will they be safe till spring, or will they start to edge each other out. There must be 100 seedlings in each of several gallon cans (Z. drummondii, Z. citrina, Z. chlorosolen, Z. tubispathus and a few others). Should I divide to save them, or will they tolerate each other and just grow slowly. In spring I'll have more time, energy, places, etc., to plant them. But, I don't want to lose substantial numbers. Joe From Antennaria@aol.com Sat Nov 13 17:14:51 2004 Message-Id: <65.383f8632.2ec7e157@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Crocus niveus in a cold climate Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:14:47 EST "Boyce Tankersley" btankers@chicagobotanic.org wrote: >Do you think Crocus niveus would survive in the >Chicago region, blooming as late as it does? >We got our first killing frost in late September, >then had a couple of nice weeks of Indian >summer. Weather since then has been on the >cool side but no real dips into the lower 20's yet. Hi Boyce, A two-fold response. Regarding Crocus niveus, it's a splendid species which has flowered well since I received corms in 2000. I'm in northern New England, so my climate might be somewhat similar to yours, in terms of the cold weather arriving at the same time the fall crocus begin blooming. We too, had killing frosts in September. In the past seevral weeks we've had many nights of deep frosts (down to 20 F) and as of last weekend, there were still some flowers on this species and several other crocus (tournefortii, goulimyi, serotinus, pallasii, and the tiny Colchicum cupanii). I can't tell if it's still in bloom now, as we had 3 inches of wet snow last night, which is freezing up into a white crust today and tonight. If tomorrow warms up and the snow melts a little bit, I'll check to see if it still has more buds. What I particularly like about C. niveus, is just how many blooms each corm can make in succession over a period of many weeks. I have both the pure white form and the more common form that is ever so slightly tinged with violet. I think you should try it. Oh, almost forgot, the flowers are nicely perfumed. Second item... Boyce, I recall an email I received from you, which I have surely lost in the mad scattered chaos that characterizes my email inbox (and based on AOL's annoying habit of deleting emails one keeps in one's inbox that are a month old or so). So, please accept my apology for not getting back to you, and I hope that we can pick up where we left off. Your PBS message jolted my memory of the lost email and the overdue response. Cheers to you and PBS'rs at large, Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat Nov 13 20:28:04 2004 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Rain Lily Seedlings, What About Crowding? Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 01:27:19 +0000 >From: ConroeJoe@aol.com >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >Subject: [pbs] Rain Lily Seedlings, What About Crowding? >Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 12:22:54 EST > >Hi, > >How crowded, and how long, can I safely keep rain lily seedlings in a >gallon >pot. They came up heavily, and are like a lawn of mondo grass now, at 1 >year >old and some at 1 1/2 years. > >Will they be safe till spring, or will they start to edge each other out. >There must be 100 seedlings in each of several gallon cans (Z. drummondii, >Z. >citrina, Z. chlorosolen, Z. tubispathus and a few others). > >Should I divide to save them, or will they tolerate each other and just >grow >slowly. In spring I'll have more time, energy, places, etc., to plant >them. >But, I don't want to lose substantial numbers. > > >Joe Dear Joe: The best thing would to pot on to a larger container and let them grow unchecked until they go dormant, when they can be more safely disturbed with less damage. In other words, wait until dormant to disturb the root ball. They take a lot of crowding with no problem. Incidentally most bulbs enjoy growing crowded while babies, the same way succulents do. All the best Alberto _________________________________________________________________ MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/ From eagle85@flash.net Sat Nov 13 23:40:07 2004 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: basal disk Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 19:37:30 -0800 piabaDoug Westfall piabinha@yahoo.com11111Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > while unpotting my Veltheimia, i pulled the bulb out > of the pot and broke it off the basal disk. so now i > have a bulb with lots of leaves but no roots and a > basal disk in the pot. will either or one of them > sprout again? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I am not an "espert," but if you broke off the complete "basal plate," I think that you have lost it. Doug Westfall From piabinha@yahoo.com Sat Nov 13 23:13:37 2004 Message-Id: <20041114041332.21986.qmail@web51901.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: basal disk Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 20:13:32 -0800 (PST) hi all, while unpotting my Veltheimia, i pulled the bulb out of the pot and broke it off the basal disk. so now i have a bulb with lots of leaves but no roots and a basal disk in the pot. will either or one of them sprout again? ===== tsuh yang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com From thisisnotgonnawork@yahoo.com Sat Nov 13 23:41:31 2004 Message-Id: <20041114044131.24856.qmail@web52904.mail.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: basal disk Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 20:41:31 -0800 (PST) I did that once to a Hippeastrum. I cleaned the bulb and put it into clean sand and waited a few months. Maybe it will reroot. The basal portion will probably make new bulbs but slowly I imagine. James Frelichowski piaba wrote: hi all, while unpotting my Veltheimia, i pulled the bulb out of the pot and broke it off the basal disk. so now i have a bulb with lots of leaves but no roots and a basal disk in the pot. will either or one of them sprout again? ===== tsuh yang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Sun Nov 14 06:11:27 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20041114220149.034fbd70@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: basal disk and veltheimia Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:11:16 +1100 At 03:13 14/11/04, you wrote: >hi all, > >while unpotting my Veltheimia, i pulled the bulb out >of the pot and broke it off the basal disk. so now i >have a bulb with lots of leaves but no roots and a >basal disk in the pot. will either or one of them >sprout again? Tsuh, Contrary to all teachings I heave heard regarding bulbs and basal plates.... I did exactly the same thing a little while back and took a chance and planted the broken "top" of the bulb it back into a pot. After noting that the leaves all stayed green and happy after 6 weeks I removed the bulb from the pot and found roots emerging from between scales in 2 places on the base of the bulb. I can guarantee that all the basal plate was removed (incidentally, if you plant the basal plate you should definitely get growth from it) so I would have thought this was impossible.... but it has happened. This took place about 3 months ago. I have now planted the bulb in a shady position in the garden to observe what happens. I expect that at the very least the leaves are continuing to feed the bulb and it will aid in the formation of bulblets between the scales (similar to twin scaling, but without the basal plate piece) but I am waiting to find out whether the bulb just continues to grow and somehow recovers a basal plate. I know that in other bulbs where I have done this (Crinum and Narcissus) the leaves have died off quite rapidly after the basal plate is removed. Not quite sure why I took the chance with the veltheimia, but it is certainly behaving differently to anything I have seen before. At this stage 3 months after the removal of the plate I still have all the leaves green and happy, and I know at least 2 large roots are growing from between the scales. This goes against what is "supposed" to happen with bulbs, but I can at least give you first hand experience on what CAN result from an accident such as yours. I would be interested to hear how your bulb behaves with your similar circumstances. According to botanical sources there should be no hope for growth without the basal plate (even twin-scaling requires a piece of the basal plate with the scales) yet in the case of my bulb it definitely produced roots from between the scales without there being any basal plate attached. Very strange to say the least, but it will be interesting to see what results in the future from this. Needless to say I will be keeping an eye on it to see what it does in the future. Hopefully this experience is of some use to you. Good luck!! Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Trilliums, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From brian.whyer@which.net Sun Nov 14 13:59:10 2004 Message-Id: <20041114185905.ZBUI1225.kx1-gui@[194.168.97.11]> From: Subject: basal disk and veltheimia Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:59:05 +0000 Could this rerooting of the leaf bases be because velthemia is one of the bulbs that can be propagated by leaf cuttings, as distinct from bulb cutting? Several bulbs that have strong mid ribs, such as lachenalia and galanthus, can be propagated in this way, but I would expect each "leaf" to eventually produce a new bulb, or bulbs, rather than the whole original bulb being reformed into one. Brian Whyer, zone 8'ish, Buckinghamshire, England > Contrary to all teachings I heave heard regarding bulbs and basal > plates.... I did exactly the same thing a little while back and took a > chance and planted the broken "top" of the bulb it back into a pot. After > noting that the leaves all stayed green and happy after 6 weeks I removed > the bulb from the pot and found roots emerging from between scales in 2 > places on the base of the bulb. I can guarantee that all the basal plate > was removed (incidentally, if you plant the basal plate you should > definitely get growth from it) so I would have thought this was > impossible.... but it has happened. From mrgoldbear@yahoo.com Sun Nov 14 14:21:54 2004 Message-Id: <20041114192154.4832.qmail@web52108.mail.yahoo.com> From: David Sneddon Subject: basal disk Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 11:21:54 -0800 (PST) Howdy, I've broken the basel plate of more than a few bulbs. It's not hard with some of the bigger crinums if you don't quite have the right leverage and haven't sliced in through the roots under the bulbs. The advise and subsequent experience I have is to pot the bulb in course sand, and place it in the shade. A little humidity may also help promote growth. Keep it a little moist but not wet during it's growing season. You may also consider giving it a periodic dose of systemic fungacide. All my damaged bulbs have regrown roots. Often they have come from the top edge (on the side) where the basel plate once was, and I think this may have meant that some basel material, though hard to discern, was left there for sufficient new growth. If your bulb does not recover it will as others have said develop bulblets. I have also had at least one bulb with has actually divided into a number of bulbs inside the core bulb (killing the original). In this way I've got more than 4 plants from one. I've yet to see how they grow out their roots but this also seems to come from high up on the side. Rgds, David. Zone 9/10 (80Kms North of Sydney Australia). --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com From jshields104@insightbb.com Sun Nov 14 15:10:50 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041114151011.02ae58b8@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Seeds Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 15:10:47 -0500 Hi all, I have fresh seeds of Haemanthus albiflos, the White Paint Brush. See my web pages at: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Seeds/HaemanthusSeeds.html I will be getting some more seeds of a few Hippeastrum species. See: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Seeds/HippeastrumSeeds.html Regards, Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From totototo@pacificcoast.net Sun Nov 14 15:26:08 2004 Message-Id: From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Rain Lily Seedlings, What About Crowding? Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 12:31:42 -8 On 13 Nov 04 at 12:22, ConroeJoe@aol.com wrote: > How crowded, and how long, can I safely keep rain lily > seedlings in a gallon pot. They came up heavily, and are like > a lawn of mondo grass now, at 1 year old and some at 1 1/2 > years. > > Will they be safe till spring, or will they start to edge each > other out. There must be 100 seedlings in each of several > gallon cans (Z. drummondii, Z. citrina, Z. chlorosolen, Z. > tubispathus and a few others). > > Should I divide to save them, or will they tolerate each other > and just grow slowly. In spring I'll have more time, energy, > places, etc., to plant them. But, I don't want to lose > substantial numbers. It is my impression that the Amaryllidaceae generally like crowding. At one end of the size range, you have the big Christmas hippeastrums: they like a small pot. At the other end, I've found that the very dwarf narcissus species seem to flower better if the pot is crowded. Impressions can be mistaken, so if anyone disagrees, speak up. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From cyrtanthus@blueyonder.co.uk Sun Nov 14 16:17:25 2004 Message-Id: <000301c4ca8f$94da8720$53fa30d5@cyrtanthus> From: "Dr Paul Chapman" Subject: Hippeastrum cybister - BX 76 #30 Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:19:03 -0000 Dell and all, I have good news. When I received my seeds from BX 76, there was a label on packet #30, Hippeastrum cybister, saying 'there is reason to believe this seed may not be viable - you have not been charged for this packet'. I used my usual germination technique for Hippeastrum seed - floating on water in a sealed container in the clothes cupboard (temperature about 20-25oC / 68-77oF). I floated the seeds on 30 October. Of the 12 seeds I received, 6 have so far germinated, and are large enough to be potted up. If you also received these seeds, and thought it might not be worth the effort - do try them - 50% germination is better than I get for many seeds! Paul Dr Paul Chapman, Wallington, Surrey, UK South London commuter belt suburbia - zone 9a, where we had the first slight frost of the winter last night, after a very sunny but very cold day, and where the flowers of Cyrtanthus elatus x falcatus are just about to open in the greenhouse. mailto:cyrtanthus@blueyonder.co.uk From onager@midtown.net Sun Nov 14 21:38:45 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.2.20041114183515.01dc8c90@ms2.midtown.net> From: Joyce Miller Subject: Hippeastrum cybister - BX 76 #30 Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:38:21 -0800 Dear John, Dell and All, I too had good luck with the H. cybister seeds. There are now seven good looking germinations under lights. John, don't you just love a bargain. My usual germination technique is modified float. I put the seeds on potting mix, cover slightly with coast sand and set pot in tray of water. This methodology saves pricking out the seedlings and risking failure. Kind regards, Joyce Miller Joyce E. Miller mailto:onager@midtown.net Zone USDA 9A Summer highs 100+degrees F for several to many days. Winter lows 27 degrees F From totototo@pacificcoast.net Mon Nov 15 19:07:58 2004 Message-Id: From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Favorite Blue Flower Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:07:51 +8 On 15 Nov 04 at 8:59, Kathy Stokmanis wrote: > ...Most Agapanthus are a pale washed out blue that I don't > like, in general, not to mention how ubiquitous they are as > store front plantings in my area. There are some lovely deep > violet-blue agapanthus that I adore, such as 'Stormy Seas', > but to my mind we are back to 'is it blue or purple?' There is an English cultivar, 'Bressingham Blue' that is a pretty good deep true blue. It's a rather small cultivar, perhaps 75cm high or so, but considerably hardier than many of the big agapanthus. In our climate, the larger agapanthus, esp. those emanating from Monrovia Nurseries, often prove to be tender when we have a sharp cold spell, so it's wise to look for hardier forms. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@pacificcoast.net Mon Nov 15 19:09:30 2004 Message-Id: From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Favorite Blue Flower Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:07:51 +8 On 15 Nov 04 at 7:58, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > At last Diane W. will have her chance as she early on wished > we'd talk about blue flowers. Please nominate your favorite > blue bulbs that you grow. Without a doubt Tecophilaea cyanocrocus! Not only the queen of blue bulbs, but the queen of blue flowers generally. It has a reputation for being tender and especially prone to the depredations of slugs because of its scant foliage, so mine are kept in pots in a bulb crate that can be carted to safety if we get sub-freezing weather. I haven't found it the easiest bulb to grow, but adopting an idea on the web from a grower in the LA area, my bulbs are now potted in a mix that is ~50% canary grit -- very fine granite grit, really a sharp sand. The granite is believed to provide plentiful potassium, but very slowly. I had the pleasure of hearing Alberto Castillo speak at the 1993 Western Winter Study Weekend held in San Mateo. (He's the reason I attended.) I asked him specifically about tecophilaea culture and got two tips: first, grow it in a circumneutral soil, neither particularly acidic nor particularly alkaline. Second, give it *cool* dry summer resting conditions; don't bake it in the sun like a species tulip. My pots usually go onto my north-facing front porch for the summer after the foliage dies back and are kept there, bone dry but in the shade, until repotted around the beginning of September. There are three forms of Tecophilaea cyanocrocus: the type, which is a deep, pure blue; T. c. leichtlinii, which has a large eye of white; and T.c. violacea, which is distinctly purple. I believe there are crosses between these forms in cultivation now that have given a wider range of color forms. Also, the recently discovered stand of it in the wild (first sighting in 55 years) is reported to have been of intermediate colors. I believe a white form has been reported from in cultivation, but somehow a white tecophilaea seems to be missing the point. The other tecophilaea species, T. violiflora, is not worth growing as the flowers are quite small. Or so I have been told by someone who should know. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From dells@voicenet.com Mon Nov 15 06:28:14 2004 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 81 Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 06:26:25 -0500 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by people from all over the world, to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 81" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER.. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Tsuh Yang Chen: 1. Rhizomes of Gloxinia aff. purpurascens: "It's unfortunate that the genus Gloxinia is not better known, except as the popular name of the florist gloxinia, Sinningia speciosa (similar situation to the "amaryllis" in the genus Hippeastrum or "geraniums" in Pelargonium). The true Gloxinia are a genus in a group known as rhizomatous in the Gesneriaceae, which also includes Kohleria, Smithiantha (temple bells) and Achimenes. These gesneriads produce scaly rhizomes (somewhat resembling elongated pine cones), that can be broken up in smaller pieces so that almost each scale will produce a small plant (of course, the bigger the piece, the bigger the plant). These genera are from tropical America, occurring from Mexico to South America, and usually suffer from a dry season, hence the rhizomatous habit. Various species are quite interesting horticultural subjects, including Gloxinia sylvatica (probably the better known and more widely grown species, a common garden subject in warmer climates, sometimes known by its old name, Seemannia latifolia), G. lindeniana, G. nematanthodes, G. gymnostoma, G. racemosa, G. purpurascens, and G. perennis. Both lindeniana and perennis also produce fragrant flowers. This plant is one of my failures at growing indoors as it will not bloom even with enough light and water. It is apparently found in the region near Belem in the Brazilian Amazon. I'm told by a botanist that it differs significantly from the "true" purpurascens from Bolivia, but because he has not officially described it yet, we are calling it aff. purpurascens. The somewhat hairy leaves are light green (somewhat resembling basil in color and shape), and the flowers are predominantly red. As I said, I have not been able to bloom it indoors but I hope PBS members will have better luck growing it outdoors in warmer regions or in a greenhouse." From Arnold Trachtenberg: 2. Lilium sargentiae stem bulbils which I have harvested from a lily from Chen Yi in China. I over winter them in the refrigerator in moist potting soil or coir. The lily has thrived here and produces a good crop of stem bulbils each year. 3. Seeds of Lilium leucanthum var. centifolium from a bulb that was obtained from the Species Lily Preservation Group. 4. Offsets of Colocasia esculenta which I over winter in a cold attic in bags of just moist coir. From Jane McGary: 5. Allium bolanderi: 5", red-and-white flowers, N. California 6. Alstroemeria revoluta: Small lavender flowers; hardiness unknown. 7. Alstroemeria umbellata: Succulent glaucous foliage, large pink flowers on short stems; from deep scree in Andes foothills, fairly hardy but needs extreme drainage. 8. Asphodelus acaulis: Morocco; nearly stemless pink flowers; winter-growing. 9. Calochortus clavatus: Tall, bright yellow, rather tender. 10. Crocus oreocreticus: fall-blooming, requires dry summer 11. Dichelostemma congestum: Deep blue flowers on 50-cm stems, early summer. 12. Erythronium helenae: White, fragrant, N. California 13. Fritillaria glauca: scree inhabitant, N. California, short, yellow or brown flowers 14. Fritillaria striata: S. California, winter-growing, white, fragrant, should be grown under glass in climates with frost. 15. Fritillaria obliqua: Greece; endangered species; black-purple flowers; winter protection advised 16. Fritillaria amana (syn. F. hermonis ssp. amana): Green-and purple striped flowers, late. 17. Crocus pulchellus: fall-blooming, lavender. 18. Crocus hadriaticus f. lilacinus: fall-blooming, lavender. 19. Iris tingitana ssp. fontanesii: N. Africa, bulbous, blue flowers, rather tender. 20. Orthrosanthes chimboracensis: Tender summer-flowering irid, blue ephemeral flowers; identification tentative. 21. Paradisea lusitanica: Summer-flowering, about 80 cm tall, white. 22. Triteleia crocea: Small yellow flowers (not Bloomeria!) 23. Tulipa cretica: small, pink flowers, mountains of Crete, not very hardy. 24. Tulipa sp. Halda 1991 list #478: Tall bright red. Thank you, Tsuh Yang, Arnold, and Jane !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From btankers@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org Mon Nov 15 09:25:28 2004 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A0AA33D@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: [POSSIBLE SPAM ] - Re: [pbs] Calochortus--TOW - Bayesian Filterdetected spam - Email found in subject Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 08:27:03 -0600 Thanks Eugene: I'll see if our library can obtain a copy through inter-library loan. To the list: Apologies for the [Possible Spam] identification on posts returned by me to the list. We have a new email server with a better filter to delete spam before it arrives in my inbox (recent weekend 603 out of 648 emails received were spam). To identify legit senders we are supposed to reply and the filter automatically adds the sender to the 'approved' list. For some reason it appears it is having a tough time accepting the pbs lists address. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Eugene Zielinski Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 9:53 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [POSSIBLE SPAM ] - Re: [pbs] Calochortus--TOW - Bayesian Filterdetected spam - Email found in subject Claude Barr's Jewels of the Plains may be worth looking at. The book is probably out of print, but I've seen it in libraries. Eugene Zielinski Augusta, GA > [Original Message] > From: Boyce Tankersley > To: Pacific Bulb Society ; diana chapman > Cc: > Date: 11/12/04 11:41:43 AM > Subject: RE: [POSSIBLE SPAM ] - Re: [pbs] Calochortus--TOW - Bayesian Filterdetected spam > > Hi Diana: > > Can you refer me to anyone who has grown the high elevational = > Calochortus in the upper Midwest? > > Many thanks, > > Boyce > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of diana chapman > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 9:32 AM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: [POSSIBLE SPAM ] - Re: [pbs] Calochortus--TOW - Bayesian Filter > detected spam > > > Dear Mary Sue and All: > > I haven't yet brought my more difficult Calochortus species to bloom, = > but I > did conduct a little experiment with C. leichtlinii. I refrigerated = > half > the bulbs each winter, but left the rest outside in our mild winters = > where > we experience very little frost, and few nights even near freezing. The > refrigerated bulbs were much more vigorous when they came into growth = > and > bulked up at a much greater rate. In fact, the unrefrigerated bulbs did = > not > seem to increase in size hardly at all. > > It is likely that Jane gets enough winter chill for her high altitude = > bulbs, > even though her climate doesn't come close to the Great Basin = > conditions, or > conditions at 6000'. I don't think any bulbs (or plants) actually need > freezing temperatures, but may need a certain amount of time at = > temperatures > between freezing and about 40F - that's why chilling crocus and tulip = > bulbs > in the refrigerator works. We had discussed some time back winter chill > needs of other plants, such as fruit trees, since this has been studied > extensively, and I believe one of our more knowledgeable members = > contributed > information regarding this. Winter conditions where I live are very = > mild - > not exactly warm, but probably not cold enough for some of the high = > altitude > Calochortus species to get the requisite number of hours of winter = > chill, > although that very likely will vary according to species. > > Diana > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Mon Nov 15 10:58:52 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041115074246.00dee6d0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Favorite Blue Flower Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:58:20 -0800 Dear All, The participation in the topic of the week is dwindling, but before it ends I'd like to finish out the color spectrum for favorite bulbs. I've been working on htm documents I've added to the wiki summarizing the favorites people have chosen and linking the choices to pictures we have on the wiki. We started out with a bang with yellow even though a lot of people said they didn't like yellow flowers. Perhaps it was all those Narcissus fans in our group. But since then even though our list has grown in number fewer people have nominated your favorites. So I propose letting this topic run for two weeks so everyone will have a chance to write. Looking at the pictures of some of the choices for pink and purple I found myself understanding why we had that color discussion. There were choices for purple I thought looked pink and pink choices I thought looked purple. Perhaps it is just my monitor. You can look at those htm documents from the wiki topic of the week page for 2004 as I have finished adding them. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TOW%202004 At last Diane W. will have her chance as she early on wished we'd talk about blue flowers. Please nominate your favorite blue bulbs that you grow. I expect there will be some purple-blue overlap as we had with orange-yellow and purple-pink. Please include where you live in your post. I hope we can finish the favorite colors in December with white. Coming soon: Haemanthus Mary Sue From vikingdoc@earthlink.net Mon Nov 15 11:59:07 2004 Message-Id: <410-2200411115165951540@earthlink.net> From: "Kathy Stokmanis" Subject: Favorite Blue Flower Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 08:59:51 -0800 How about favorite blue flowered bulbs that I don't grow? (yet) Naturally that would have to be Tecophilaea cyanocrocus. Most Agapanthus are a pale washed out blue that I don't like, in general, not to mention how ubiquitous they are as store front plantings in my area. There are some lovely deep violet-blue agapanthus that I adore, such as 'Stormy Seas', but to my mind we are back to 'is it blue or purple?' Camassia is a nice blue and the range of blues in Iris is incredible. I especially like those that have a picotee edge. I'll have to go through my records to find cultivar names. Kathy Stokmanis Sierra foothills, Northern California, Sunset zone 7 but seems more like 8/9. No blue geophytes in bloom right now but Crocus speciosus is still putting on a lovely display. The rainy season started early this year and it is partly overcast. No frost yet. Dry, very hot summers, mild very wet winters. From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Nov 15 12:23:54 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Blue Flowered Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:02:43 -0600 Dear All; Thought I'd be an early bird responder to Mary Sue: 1.Anemone blanda After years of growing Anemone blanda 'White Splendor' I put in a few hundred cheap mixed blue shades. They are terrific. The shades run the range from a medium pale true blue through deep blue and pale ice blue, but all are harmonious and blend beautifully. Obviously seedlings, they tend to have a range of bloom time from early to late and extend their own season this way. 2. Scilla siberica Almost any of the blue Scilla siberica are top of the 'blue list' whether just typical, seed grown or named forms, they all have a rich blue color and are nearly fool proof here. They self sow, but not vigorously; enough to spread comfortably. These two are such standouts in my hard climate. I wish I could grow Tecophilia which strikes me as the bluest of blue flowered bulbs or Meconopsis, the blue poppy, but both are beyond me. I will add to the list later, but these jumped out. Selected forms of Lycoris sprengeri with almost totally electric blue flowers exist, but none are named or common. Something that deserves attention. More later. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick Near KCI Airport Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From dells@voicenet.com Mon Nov 15 14:10:35 2004 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 81 CLOSED Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:10:27 -0500 Packages should go out later this week Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From Nancy.Gilbert@beale.af.mil Mon Nov 15 14:59:43 2004 Message-Id: <3A015C336D8DE5438CC45C4BB03D7DE4057EDE@fsbaey08> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC Subject: Favorite Blue Bulb Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:59:39 -0800 I am biased towards California native bulbs, and one of my favorites is Triteleia laxa, largely because there are so many different shades of blue and lilac to be seen in different locations. I think the cobalt blue of the species as seen in Humboldt county, referrred to as 'Humboldt Star' by the Robinettes, is stunning, especially when it is found blooming alongside Dichelostemma Ida Maia. Then there is the form found in Fresno County that the Robinettes called 'Sierra Giant' or 'Dinnerplate' Laxa, which has unusually large flower heads (diameter as as large as a dinner plate) and comes in a very soft lilac color. It grows 3 feet tall in some locations and is lovely to see blooming in the dark shade of a Live Oak. Nancy Gilbert From btankers@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org Mon Nov 15 18:25:44 2004 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A0AA348@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: [POSSIBLE SPAM ] - [pbs] Favorite Blue Flower Bulbs--TOW - Email found in subject Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:27:14 -0600 Hi All: Moraea, can't remember the specific species, but these were in the Research greenhouse at Mobot, part of Peter Goldblatt's taxonomic collection. Tecophilaea cyanocrocus. I'm hooked. Apparently can't grow them well in my climate, but it doesn't really matter. Crocus adamii. This endemic (I think) to the Greater Caucasus Mountains comes in a delightful shade of blues with varying shades of gray feathering the outside of the petals. Muscari. How to pick just one favorite blue? Iris. Regardless of series, there seem to be good blues throughout the genus; irrespective of bulb vs. rhizome. Scilla. For my money Scilla siberica are the best of the blues. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Mary Sue Ittner Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 9:58 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [POSSIBLE SPAM ] - [pbs] Favorite Blue Flower Bulbs--TOW - Email found in subject Dear All, The participation in the topic of the week is dwindling, but before it ends I'd like to finish out the color spectrum for favorite bulbs. I've been working on htm documents I've added to the wiki summarizing the favorites people have chosen and linking the choices to pictures we have on the wiki. We started out with a bang with yellow even though a lot of people said they didn't like yellow flowers. Perhaps it was all those Narcissus fans in our group. But since then even though our list has grown in number fewer people have nominated your favorites. So I propose letting this topic run for two weeks so everyone will have a chance to write. Looking at the pictures of some of the choices for pink and purple I found myself understanding why we had that color discussion. There were choices for purple I thought looked pink and pink choices I thought looked purple. Perhaps it is just my monitor. You can look at those htm documents from the wiki topic of the week page for 2004 as I have finished adding them. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TOW%202004 At last Diane W. will have her chance as she early on wished we'd talk about blue flowers. Please nominate your favorite blue bulbs that you grow. I expect there will be some purple-blue overlap as we had with orange-yellow and purple-pink. Please include where you live in your post. I hope we can finish the favorite colors in December with white. Coming soon: Haemanthus Mary Sue _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ConroeJoe@aol.com Mon Nov 15 18:46:36 2004 Message-Id: From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: What About Mexican (and Probably Mexian) Hymenocallis, First Winter Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:46:27 EST Hi, How do I overwinter some seedlings? They germinated in summer, and are mostly doing fine, but short days seem to be enticing them to go dormant. I can leave them outside, in pots of good soil that drains well, or I can dry them down, or I can find room for some indoors under lights. I have thought about leaving them outdoors but covering the posts with see-through plastic. The soil won't freeze but frosts of 20-25 can be expected several times--with the next day always rising above 32 F. Advice appreciated, even random speculation or guesses. Conroe Joe 75 F today, humid, possible light rain tonight From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Mon Nov 15 19:29:07 2004 Message-Id: <000801c4cb73$e3909f00$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: What About Mexican (and Probably Mexian) Hymenocallis, First Winter Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:33:21 -0500 Joe, Let em go until they do/if they do go dormant...some may keep going all year long. If they do not they will just take longer to grow as large. I had a real hard time w/ this. it usually takes a few years and a few mistakes...like most things. I thought my hym. howardii were gone and the next June they came up w/ vigor. many just go away for the winter. The ones from the SE US are in a hurry to come up in the spring, but those from Mexico are later in breaking...some into late May. Plastic can/will get too hot. A small 8x8x8 plastic house of 2x4's covered w/ plastic and a folding door to open in the day did for me 10 yrs ago when starting some of my first hybrid seedling. One night fell don to 9 F and that was it for most. A few Hipp, including neopardinum, made it, Clivia became mush. Kevin Preuss - St. Pete, FL Where Spider lilies are beginning to dry off, while one from Guatemala is in full bloom! From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Mon Nov 15 19:38:22 2004 Message-Id: <001501c4cb75$2e172f20$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Favorite Blue Flower Bulbs--TOW Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:42:41 -0500 Griffinias are small, but fun. Onto the biggies like G. hyacinthina and Worsleya rayneri. These an have 10 to 20 flowers/spike the size of hippeastum flowers. You could grow old and grey waiting fo rthe pleasures of the blooms, but these lilac flowers offers some of the nicest hues of "blue" in the amaryllidaceae. Addmittedly there are reddish pigments influencing the shades of lilac, but... These seem to need ooler drier nights in the summer, too. Kevin D. Preuss www.Amaryllis-Plus.com From jshields@indy.net Mon Nov 15 19:51:05 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041115193800.020c0d28@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: What About Mexican (and Probably Mexian) Hymenocallis, First Winter Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:51:02 -0500 Hi Joe and all, I'm not sure I can help Joe in his Texas climate. Where the Mexican Hymenocallis species are concerned, I have a greenhouse, and some including the new seedlings spend the winter in there, but dry. The older bulbs, of necessity for space, are stored in a heated building, bone-dry from October till May. I fear that over the years I have become calloused, and do not carefully tabulate my loses anymore. If seedlings live, they live. If they die, there will be space for more next year. Most live. As we get more species and more clones of species in cultivation, the risk will decrease in any case. But Joe, you are right to be concerned: The first winter is the worst test of the seedlings' ability to survive. Some Mexican species seem to increase very slowly. H. azteciana comes to mind, as well as H. woelfleana. In years past, I was not able to get seeds on H. azteciana (selfed). I had the same problem with a single bulb of woelfleana. Fortunately for hobbyists but probably sadly for the plants in habitat, H. eucharidifolia is suddenly abundant in commerce. A couple of my plants bloomed, a bit too far apart to cross-pollinate easily. So I selfed them, got some seeds back in July, and those seeds have now germinated (in the greenhouse). Also interesting where eucharidifolia is concerned, all my plants of this one are still in full leaf, although bone dry since mid-September. Only the summer flush of leaves are there, no newer ones. Joe, you really need a greenhouse! Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana At 06:46 PM 11/15/2004 -0500, Joe wrote: >......... >How do I overwinter some seedlings? They germinated in summer, and are >mostly doing fine, but short days seem to be enticing them to go dormant. >......... ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From scamp@earthlink.net Mon Nov 15 21:57:45 2004 Message-Id: <410-220041121625756508@earthlink.net> From: "Christine Council" Subject: What About Mexican (and Probably Mexian) Hymenocallis, First Winter Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:57:56 -0500 Hello, I just wanted to get off the track a bit. Last Summer I saw a greenhouse in a little box at the store and bought it for $19.99. Last week I finally decided to open the package. When I opened the box and saw how it was made I decided "I could do that." It was made of heavy plastic (vinyl)the type comforters and spreads are stored in when we buy them but it was open at the bottom like a tent. I promptly looked through my junk shelf and pulled out my supply of spread and comforter containers;They are square or oblong and sturdy. If you want to make them look like a house take two poles, position them inside of the plastic as if you are building a tent. They already have a zipper installed so leave it open or closed and wa lah, you have an A-Frame or pointed roof. I had two shelves which I put inside of one and I have a small table I plan to put inside of the other. I discovered that this is easy to do and it certainly keeps the frost off and the heat in. I also like the square or oblong containers for small plants and flowers. If I can do it any body can. I am experimenting with this new project and it is working well. Some of the containers have handles so they are easy to carry. I put the plants outside in the sun and bring them in when the sun starts to go down if it is really cold; the plants are doing great. My daughter has a small table with two built in shelves; I set it inside of the plastic container, put the plants on the shelves and zipped it. Use your imagination. Never throw away anything if you like plants because we can use all types of containers. Only joking about not throwing away stuff. Chris > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 11/15/2004 6:46:37 PM > Subject: [pbs] What About Mexican (and Probably Mexian) Hymenocallis,First Winter > > Hi, > > How do I overwinter some seedlings? They germinated in summer, and are > mostly doing fine, but short days seem to be enticing them to go dormant. > > I can leave them outside, in pots of good soil that drains well, or I can dry > them down, or I can find room for some indoors under lights. > > I have thought about leaving them outdoors but covering the posts with > see-through plastic. The soil won't freeze but frosts of 20-25 can be expected > several times--with the next day always rising above 32 F. > > Advice appreciated, even random speculation or guesses. > > > Conroe Joe > 75 F today, humid, possible light rain tonight > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From sheila1@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 16 07:50:18 2004 Message-Id: <00a901c4cbda$d20af8e0$77b73bcb@Burrow> From: "sheilab" Subject: Favorite Blue Flower Bulbs--TOW Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:50:09 +0800 My favourite blue flower is Leucocoryne ixiodes. They are very long flowering bulbs and have a delightful perfume. The cut flowers can last up to 4 weeks in a vase. I believe these are the Queen of blue flowers :-) Regards, Sheila Burrow Perth Western Australia Z10ish From sheila1@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 16 08:00:46 2004 Message-Id: <00b401c4cbdc$3b03b980$77b73bcb@Burrow> From: "sheilab" Subject: Favorite Blue Flower Bulbs--TOW Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:00:20 +0800 Sorry, I forgot to mention the other blue flowering bulbs I like, I am so enarmoured of Leucocoryne. I also like Babiana disticha which is a pale blue with darker blue markings and a lovely perfume. Scilla peruviana, of which I have the blue and a purple form. Ipheion "Rolf Fiedler" can't be beaten for true blue colouring. I also grow a few T. leichtlinii but not very well and I don't like them as much as Leucocoryne. Regards Sheila Perth Western Australia Z 10ish From msittner@mcn.org Tue Nov 16 10:47:47 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041116074302.01eda820@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Leucojum fabrei Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:44:26 -0800 At 08:29 PM 10/24/04 +0200, you wrote: >Hello Bulbfriends , >Has anybody informations , pictures , sources for Leucojum fabrei ? >Best wishes >Hans No one has responded to Hans request for information about Leucojum fabrei some time ago. It isn't listed in any of my books. I looked it up in IPNI and this is what I found. Do any of our European list members know anything about it. Lauw, have you seen it? Does anyone grow it? Amaryllidaceae Leucojum fabrei Quézel & Girerd Bull. Soc. Bot. France, Lett. Bot. 137(1): 78. 1990 France, Southwestern Europe, Europe remarks: Published as "Leucoium" Links basionym of: Amaryllidaceae Acis fabrei (Quézel & Girerd)Lledó, A.P.Davis & M.B.Crespo Pl. Syst. Evol. 246(3-4): 241. 2004 [27 July 2004] From piabinha@yahoo.com Tue Nov 16 11:46:55 2004 Message-Id: <20041116164652.65741.qmail@web51902.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Favorite Blue Bulb: Australian Orchids? Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:46:52 -0800 (PST) it occurs to me that we rarely talk about terrestrial orchids. i don't grow many orchids anymore, and not having an outdoor space, i don't have the same experience as most of you. but years ago, when i was heavily into orchids, i used to dream of growing some of the terrestrial orchids from australia, such as Caladenia and Thelymitra, which include some very beautiful blue species. ===== tsuh yang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com From jimmckenney@starpower.net Tue Nov 16 12:28:38 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20041116122748.00a593a0@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Favorite Blue Bulb Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:27:48 -0500 I'm enjoying this topic. My choices for blue flowering bulbs are for the most part in agreement with those others who live in colder climates. And as do so many of us in cold climates, I suffer from Tecophilaea envy. Just to be different, I'll suggest three blue flowered favorites which no one has mentioned. In fact, I don't recall two of the genera about to be mentioned having been mentioned on this list at all during the time I've been posting. First is Delphinium tricorne. This is a local native (actually just a bit west of us where the soil pH is a bit higher). Yes, this is a geophyte. It grows from a structure which will remind you of that of Ranunculus ficaria. Flower color varies, but it can be very good. Second, and this one will be a bit of a stretch for some (and all I can say to them is to remember that the term geophyte does not indicate relationship): Nymphaea caerulea and some of its hybrids. Yes, these are waterlilies. And yes, these are geophytes. The third choice comes from a genus which for some reason has not come up for discussion on this list lately or ever. And to the extent that clear, sparkling, intense blue is the criterion, even Tecophilaea is not secure of its crown in comparison. What I have in mind is Commelina tuberosa (aka C. coelestis). This one grown from root clusters which will remind you of those of a turban ranunculus. And yes, it's little better than a weed, but a very pretty one. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the only blue bulbs I've ever seen are those of some hyacinths and squills. From crinum@libero.it Tue Nov 16 14:31:20 2004 Message-Id: From: "crinum@libero.it" Subject: Leucojum fabrei Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:31:19 +0100 I have found this: A) An efficient conservation planning of rare plants is often obliterate by the lack of a comprehensive integration of ecological, biological and demographic data. This observation is particularly true if we consider the paucity of informations concerning threatened Mediterranean plants. The aims of our study are to examine through two rare geophytes: (i) microhabitats differences among and within populations, (ii) their influences on demography and on reproductive success, and (iii) their importance in relation to clonal versus sexual reproduction. Leucojum nicaeense Ardoino and Leucojum fabrei Quézel & Girerd are respectively endemic from the Maritimes Alps and the Mont Ventoux (south-east France). These two endemics exhibit contrasted patterns of rarity and threats: L. fabrei comprises only 3 populations, whereas the about 20 known populations of L. nicaeense are seriously threatened by the tremendous urbanization and landscape fragmentation existing on the Côte d’Azur. Floristic and environmental data indicate that the two taxa mainly grow on xerophytic and rocky grasslands, but an higher ecological amplitude exists for L. nicaeense, which is found along a short geographical gradient but a strong ecological one. Demography of L. nicaeense seems to be influenced by the closed presence of a low ligneous stratum but L. fabrei shows no interference with regard to growth forms. Furthermore, reproductive success was positively correlated with population density for L. fabrei and with the total number individuals for L. nicaeense. Our results indicate that the importance of microhabitat-specific differences imply to consider the effects of a local scale variability. These data should allow to develop an adequate conservation planning in order to surmount the hugeness of the actual land-use changes characterizing this region. B) http://perso.club-internet.fr/v_pascal/amaryllidaceae/Acis/ Ciao. Alberto Grossi Italy ---------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : "Pacific Bulb Society" pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:44:26 -0800 Subject : Re: [pbs] Leucojum fabrei > At 08:29 PM 10/24/04 +0200, you wrote: > >Hello Bulbfriends , > >Has anybody informations , pictures , sources for Leucojum fabrei ? > >Best wishes > >Hans > No one has responded to Hans request for information about Leucojum fabrei > some time ago. It isn't listed in any of my books. I looked it up in IPNI > and this is what I found. Do any of our European list members know anything > about it. Lauw, have you seen it? Does anyone grow it? > > Amaryllidaceae Leucojum fabrei Quézel & Girerd > Bull. Soc. Bot. France, Lett. Bot. 137(1): 78. 1990 > > France, Southwestern Europe, Europe > > remarks: Published as "Leucoium" > Links > > basionym of: Amaryllidaceae Acis fabrei (Quézel & Girerd)Lledó, A.P.Davis & > M.B.Crespo Pl. Syst. Evol. 246(3-4): 241. 2004 [27 July 2004] > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Alberto Grossi Italy ____________________________________________________________ Libero ADSL: navighi gratis a 1.2 Mega, senza canone e costi di attivazione. Abbonati subito su http://www.libero.it From ConroeJoe@aol.com Tue Nov 16 18:56:41 2004 Message-Id: <79.38a3d74d.2ecbedb7@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 22, Issue 17 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:56:39 EST In a message dated 11/16/2004 10:47:40 AM Central Standard Time, pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org writes: > Joe, you really need a greenhouse! > Hi Jim and all, Many people have suggested a greenhouse for my various questions. I plan never to have another. Thanks though, to all who help me with ideas and suggestions--such certainly stimulates the thinking process. Aloe and Agave plants continue to surprise me with their ability to endure too much rain and cold--so perhaps the Hymenocallis will happily surprise me too. I have some wide-leaved unknown Hymenocallis from Thailand--no doubt they were imported years ago as garden plants. They continue to surprise me--enduring lots of abuse. I sure don't know what they are--maybe when they bloom. One has petioles and one does not--one has 2-3 inch wide leaves and one has 4 inch wide leaves. Joe From jshields@indy.net Tue Nov 16 19:15:11 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041116190756.0212bab8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Hymenocallis over winter Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:15:07 -0500 Joe and all, Thad Howard grew all sorts of Hymenocallis outdoors in the ground near San Antonio for years. His interests were mainly the Mexican species, several of which he discovered and named himself. Now if we can find a few Aloe and Agave that are hardy enough to grow outdoors here in Indiana, I'll be very interested. As I've mentioned often before, I have a plant of Hymenocallis liriosme which Thad sent me that has survived one winter outdoors in the ground here in Indiana, in a very protected spot outside the south end of one of my greenhouses. I did mulch it well, and will need to mulch it again soon. I want eventually to try some more accessions of H. liriosme in the ground here, when the stock has increased more. Does anyone else have observations on hardiness of Hymenocallis outdoors in the ground year-round? Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Tue Nov 16 19:40:41 2004 Message-Id: <001d01c4cc3e$9fd6a720$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Hymenocallis over winter Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:44:40 -0500 I found H. occidentalis var. occidentalis growing 30 miles so. of Louisville, KY, near the upper banks of a pond. I had one but it did not like Floridas's heat, I guess. H. palusvirens is from SC. H. coronaria grows as far north as NC...some of these might be fun candidates. They do not flower here (yet anyway) and I have flowered every florida species now except H. choctawensis. Kevin D. Preuss www.Amaryllis-Plus.com From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Tue Nov 16 19:43:34 2004 Message-Id: <002801c4cc3f$0718faa0$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 22, Issue 17 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:47:33 -0500 probably H. speciosa or H. tubiflora. I have yet to lose one to frost/freeze. They are hardy things in there ranges. now temps below 10 F are another thing. Kevin D. Preuss www.Amaryllis-Plus.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: > Aloe and Agave plants continue to surprise me with their ability to endure > too much rain and cold--so perhaps the Hymenocallis will happily surprise me > too. > > I have some wide-leaved unknown Hymenocallis from Thailand--no doubt they > were imported years ago as garden plants. They continue to surprise me--enduring > lots of abuse. I sure don't know what they are--maybe when they bloom. One > has petioles and one does not--one has 2-3 inch wide leaves and one has 4 inch > wide leaves. > > Joe > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Tue Nov 16 19:59:17 2004 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Favorite Blue Flower Bulbs--TOW Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:59:16 -0800 Well, here is my list of favorite blue flowers. I had a phase where I was on the lookout for any "true blue" flowers, so even though some flowers have slight amounts of purplishness of violet in them and still seem blue, I became something of a purist in my search. Even so, some of the flowers in his list still may have traces of lavender or purple or pale reddishness in them, but they made the list because they were so compelling. At the end I've added another list for a related color that has so few flowers of that shade that I doubt Mary Sue will even need to bother to have a Topic of the Week for it. Nevertheless, the color is so stunning that it merits a small list somewhere for reference' sake. That would be the color I'm going to call teal. Also known as cyan or blue-green, and aqua or aquamarine at the green end of its range and turquoise at the blue end of its range. True blue: Tecophilaea cyanocrocus What can I say? Of all the blue flowers I've grown this one reigns supreme. Not only is it the bluest flower I've grown, it is also the most intense hue of blue I've grown. Luckily, it grows almost without care in my southern California climate. I've mentioned before that I can grow it basically exactly like I do Cape bulbs from South Africa. Ipheion 'Rolf Fiedler' This is very easy to grow and such nice shade of blue. I think it's the best colored of the blue Ipheion/ I. uniflorum cultivars. At peak bloom a pot will be covered with creamy sky blue flowers. Bearded Iris - various cultivars, all shades of blue I can't think of any named cultivars at the moment, but there are many. Some may not be completely true blue, but they're close enough and come in shades from dark to very pale. Lycoris sprengeri buds I had to put this in here after flowering these things. The blue is so electric that you can't help but notice it. And when it is in bud, the bluer bulbs look almost completely neon blue. If someone can breed a pure blue one of these, it will have to be placed on the list of top 5 blue flowers of all time. Aristea ecklonii I love this in flower under trees when it is grown well en masse. Lots of small sparkling blue stars amidst a deep green field of leaves. Cypella coelestis (syn. Phalocallis coelestis, Cypella plumbea) This one isn't completely true blue, but is such a ghostly stunning color of sky blue with a hint of lavender when seen in person that it has to go on the list. Nemastylis geminiflora I couldn't believe that a native to the central Texas hill country where I grew up could be so pretty and so blue. I don't know why I never saw this until last summer. Scilla lingulata The strain that Harold Koopowitz brought to one of Cathy Craig's get-togethers was a wonderful shade of blue. I guess the blueness can vary fairly widely. Zephyra elegans I've never seen this one in person, but a photo I saw made me want to grow this one. Meconopsis betonicifolia "Himalayan Blue Poppy" I don't think this is a geophyte. However, after finally getting to see an entire bed of these in bloom at Butchard Gardens in Victoria, British Columbia, Canada, it also must go on the list of top 5 blue flowers of all time. Why, oh why must it require such a cool summertime climate to grow in...? Delphinium I don't know the species, and I don't know if it's a geophyte, but I know that some Delphiniums are geophytes, so I decided to list this because the plants I bought from an ordinary nursery were so true blue that it has to go on some list of true blue flowers. Teal/Cyan/Aquamarine/Blue-green/Turquoise: Lachenalia viridiflora A stunning color and a very showy Lachenalia. Ixia viridiflora Everyone just stops and stares at this Ixia when it is in bloom. I have trouble keeping this one going from year to year on an ongoing basis. Most people don't believe the above two bulbs' flowers are real or natural when they first view them. Most likely because they've never seen anything this color in nature, at least in the plant kingdom. None of the following are geophytes. But they're the only other flowers I've discovered so far that fall within this color range. They all look unreal when you first see them. Puya alpestris and Puya berteroniana I've only personally seen these in photographs. But I have plants now, so I just have to wait until I get them to flower. Strongylodon macrobotrys Also known as the Jade Vine. A true tropical vine and will not survive temperatures below 40 deg. F. However, I finally saw one in bloom and it is truly a stunning looking flower. Huge racemes of large pea-shaped flowers hanging from the vines in the most unusual shade of teal green you've ever seen. Jane McGary has said the following: "Several gentians are this color, the most familiar being Gentiana glauca, a plant of high latitudes and altitudes." I've never seen the flowers nor photographs, but include it here to make a more complete listing. And finally a year ago while visiting Kew Gardens, I saw another teal green flower in the famous main tropical greenhouse. It appeared to me to be in the same family as what I've known as "Shrimp Plants" (Justicia brandegeana and Pachystachys lutea). I've seen the red and yellow flowered versions before. But try as I could, I could not find a label or anything identifying it. I do have a photo of it, however. These are all I've been able to find in this color range. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From lizwat@earthlink.net Tue Nov 16 21:50:24 2004 Message-Id: <419ABCF8.8010403@earthlink.net> From: Liz Waterman Subject: Favorite Blue Flower Bulbs--TOW Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:52:40 -0800 One if my favorites that I haven't seen mentioned so far is the tuber forming Salvia patens 'Cabridge Blue' . Liz W From ggroiti@agro.uba.ar Wed Nov 17 12:58:01 2004 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20041117145440.022d0a08@pop3.agro.uba.ar> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n?= Roitman Subject: Herbertia Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:57:44 -0300 Dear Mary Sue: Alberto Castillo and i have published in Brittonia a new species of Herbertia http://www.bioone.org/bioone/?request=get-abstract&issn=0007-196X&volume=056&issue=04&page=0361 I would like to upload a picture in the wiki and write some info to send to pbs. I ve tried twice but i couldnt manage to upload the picture as usual. Could you help me? Thanking you in advance Germán _______________________________________ Ing. Agr. MSc Germán Roitman mailto:groitman@mail.retina.ar Cátedra de Jardinería FAUBA Av. San Martín 4453. 1417. Buenos Aires Argentina ICQ: 1837762 _______________________________________ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.797 / Virus Database: 541 - Release Date: 15/11/2004 From jyourch@nc.rr.com Wed Nov 17 13:45:09 2004 Message-Id: <130ef2f130ceec.130ceec130ef2f@southeast.rr.com> From: jyourch@nc.rr.com Subject: Hymenocallis over winter Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:45:07 -0500 Jim Shields wrote: >Does anyone else have observations on hardiness of Hymenocallis >outdoors in the ground year-round? Jim, I had H. latifolia and H. 'Tropical Giant' in the ground over last winter and all survived, sprouted vigorously in the spring, and bloomed and offset well this summer. This year I have added a variegated Hymenocallis (don't know the species), one from Guatemala that I got from Kevin Preuss, H. maximiliani, H. occidentalis, H. rotata, and another mystery Hymenocallis I got from Alani Davis. All are in the ground and are staying there for the winter. I will pile the mulch on if we have any sustained cold outbreaks and will report what happens in the spring. Thanks to another generous PBS member (you know who you are) I now have some new H. acutifolia seedlings that I will winter frost free and plant out next spring. Regards, Jay Yourch Central North Carolina, USA (USDA Zone 7b) From crinum@libero.it Wed Nov 17 18:15:01 2004 Message-Id: From: "crinum@libero.it" Subject: Herbertia Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 00:15:00 +0100 Why not pass us the full text? Alberto Italy ---------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : "Pacific Bulb Society" pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:57:44 -0300 Subject : [pbs] Herbertia > Dear Mary Sue: > > Alberto Castillo and i have published in Brittonia a new species of Herbertia > > http://www.bioone.org/bioone/?request=get-abstract&issn=0007-196X&volume=056&issue=04&page=0361 > > I would like to upload a picture in the wiki and write some info to send to > pbs. I ve tried twice but i couldnt manage to upload the picture as usual. > > Could you help me? > > Thanking you in advance > > Germán > > > _______________________________________ > Ing. Agr. MSc Germán Roitman > mailto:groitman@mail.retina.ar > Cátedra de Jardinería FAUBA > Av. San Martín 4453. 1417. Buenos Aires > Argentina > ICQ: 1837762 > _______________________________________ > Alberto Grossi Italy ____________________________________________________________ Libero ADSL: navighi gratis a 1.2 Mega, senza canone e costi di attivazione. Abbonati subito su http://www.libero.it From buj.joschko@freenet.de Thu Nov 18 04:19:55 2004 Message-Id: From: "Hans und Babs Joschko" Subject: AW: [pbs] Leucojum fabrei Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:20:14 +0100 Hello plantfriends , Thank you Mary Sue Ittner and Alberto Grossi for your informations to Leucojum fabrei. It seems we must wait some time before anybody of us has these plants in his collecton . With best wishes Hans From ggroiti@agro.uba.ar Thu Nov 18 12:51:12 2004 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20041118143644.023289d8@pop3.agro.uba.ar> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n?= Roitman Subject: New herbertia species Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:50:43 -0300 Hi all: Alberto Castillo and i have recently published in Brittonia a new species of Herbertia. Herbertia crosae inhabit stony grasslands in Uruguay. The new species resembles Herbertia lahue, but can be distinguished by the smaller pale lilac flowers, the presence of yellow spots at the base of the tepals. The flowers of Herbertia crosae open during early afternoon and remain open untill the evening; this contrasts with the flowers of the other species of the genus that open early in the morning and close by midday. We dedicate this species to Dr. Orfeo Crosa of the Facultad de Agronomía, Universidad de Uruguay, Montevideo. You can find a picture of it in: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Herbertia You cna look at the abstract here: http://www.bioone.org/bioone/?request=get-abstract&issn=0007-196X&volume=056&issue=04&page=0361 I still dont have the reprints and hope to obtain the .pdf file of the article soon. Best wishes Germán _______________________________________ Ing. Agr. MSc Germán Roitman mailto:groitman@mail.retina.ar Cátedra de Jardinería FAUBA Av. San Martín 4453. 1417. Buenos Aires Argentina _______________________________________ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.797 / Virus Database: 541 - Release Date: 15/11/2004 From crinum@libero.it Thu Nov 18 14:12:36 2004 Message-Id: From: "crinum@libero.it" Subject: New herbertia species Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:12:35 +0100 Thank you very much for your reply. It would be very fine if articles of the year, about bulbs, might be pass to everyone interested! My best regards. Alberto Italy ---------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:50:43 -0300 Subject : [pbs] New herbertia species > Hi all: > > Alberto Castillo and i have recently published in Brittonia a new species > of Herbertia. Herbertia crosae inhabit stony grasslands in Uruguay. The new > species resembles Herbertia lahue, but can be distinguished by the smaller > pale lilac flowers, the presence of yellow spots at the base of the tepals. > The flowers of Herbertia crosae open during early afternoon and remain open > untill the evening; this contrasts with the flowers of the other species of > the genus that open early in the morning and close by midday. > > We dedicate this species to Dr. Orfeo Crosa of the Facultad de Agronomía, > Universidad de Uruguay, Montevideo. > > You can find a picture of it in: > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Herbertia > > You cna look at the abstract here: > > http://www.bioone.org/bioone/?request=get-abstract&issn=0007-196X&volume=056&issue=04&page=0361 > > I still dont have the reprints and hope to obtain the .pdf file of the > article soon. > > > > Best wishes > > Germán > > > _______________________________________ > Ing. Agr. MSc Germán Roitman > mailto:groitman@mail.retina.ar > Cátedra de Jardinería FAUBA > Av. San Martín 4453. 1417. Buenos Aires > Argentina > _______________________________________ > Alberto Grossi Italy ____________________________________________________________ Libero ADSL: navighi gratis a 1.2 Mega, senza canone e costi di attivazione. Abbonati subito su http://www.libero.it From msittner@mcn.org Thu Nov 18 21:21:48 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041118164855.01eb1d20@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Favorite Blue Flower Bulbs--TOW Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:20:36 -0800 Dear All, Since blue is one of my favorite colors I've really enjoyed reading about everyone's favorites. A couple of them were my favorite purple flowers, but I expected a little overlap. I agree with Lee that there are some borderline ones and that many that are mentioned as blue don't really seem blue to me. Like many others I have been trying to grow Tecophilaea cyanocrocus and it has been very slow to bloom for me from seed and even from corms changing hemispheres. Last year I did see one bloom, but it didn't last very long so I was a bit disappointed. For two years I've had blooms from Tecophilaea cyanocrocus var. leichtlinii, the one that is blue and white and it bloomed longer so is a bit higher in my esteem. I nominated Delphinium for purple favorites and there are a couple of native ones, D. decorum and D. paryii that are almost blue or part blue that I really like. Also there is one that is really a gorgeous color of blue that I received from NARGS seed as D. menziesii, which it is not. I don't know what it really is, but I decided to add it again as a sp. to the wiki, along with a picture of the roots, tuber? when dormant. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Delphinium I keep struggling to grow some of the Aristea from seed that are supposed to be blue. A. bakeri has survived our dry summer just fine in the ground so it looks like a keeper and I thought the flowers a nice color of blue when it bloomed this spring. Like Sheila I adore Leucocoryne. Last year Lee Poulsen translated a key for us we found on the Internet. Mine were just about through blooming at the time, but I think the blue one I really like which is not the one I find the easiest to grow is L. coquimbensis. It is blue around the edges with a white center. I believe I got it as L. ixioides. The L. coquimbensis that Bill Dijk gave some of us turned out to be L. vittata (Tepals with undulating/wavy and erose edges, violet-purple color, with an obvious/blatant violet central line.) It made my favorite purple list. I don't think anyone has mention Pasithea caerulea which is a very nice blue and there are a couple of Orthosanthus which are nice too. Bellevalia dubia has nice blue buds when it first starts to bloom and then becomes brown. Like Liz I like Salvia patens even though I have to grow it in a container as my soil is too dry in summer for it to do well. (I've tried.) Finally I don't grow these, but we admired the Iris siberica we saw in the U.K. in May. I've added two pictures to the wiki of ones we saw by name at Wisley. My books say those are often hybrids. There was one called Navy Blue which was a really pretty color. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Iris Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Fri Nov 19 08:21:04 2004 Message-Id: <002e01c4ce3a$fa4271a0$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Favorite Blue Flower Bulbs--TOW Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 08:23:36 -0500 Nature never behaves itself....blue range pigments blend w/ other colors to give us neat variations on blue, indigo and purple. Kevin D. Preuss www.Amaryllis-Plus.com From jshields104@insightbb.com Fri Nov 19 08:58:47 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041119085742.02105ab0@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Vic Daniels Yellows Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 08:58:44 -0500 Hi Folks, I don't see any mention of Vic Daniels in Harold Koopowitz's book "Clivias." Harold, if it's in there, can you point me to it? We saw some original Vic Daniels yellow clones flowering at a nursery in southern California last March. They are excellent light yellows, with nice wide petals and well-opened forms. The labels had long since been lost, so we have no way of knowing if they had been given names. Eric Anderson, also in southern California, grows some Vic Daniels plants he got from his grandfather, Horace. I'm not sure whether they are original Daniels plants or seedlings from the Daniels line. Can anyone tell me? I think the Vic Daniels yellows are very worthy of preservation and propagation. Does anyone out there in Clivia-land grow any of the original Daniels yellow plants? I just succeeded in begging a few offsets from 4 clones; now I want to see who else has them. I certainly hope to propagate these plants in the coming years! Regards, Jim Shields in dark, wet, and warm central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Fri Nov 19 13:18:02 2004 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: Membership Directory Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:17:58 -0800 Hello all, The PBS Membership Directory was mailed to all members yesterday 11/18. US directories went out first class, w/o envelope, Int'l members went out Air Mail in an envelope. Please watch for it in your mail and please report any errors to our membership director: Patty Colville - Pat.Colville@JHResearchUSA.com Thanks, everyone! Cathy Craig EA From Jamievande@freenet.de Fri Nov 19 13:21:39 2004 Message-Id: <003201c4ce65$6f7bce60$6502a8c0@Jamie2> From: "Jamie" Subject: New Paeonia Page Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:27:16 +0100 Hello fellow geopylles, I've added my promised page of Mouton Paeony cultivars to the wiki. You can visit it at the address below. Let me know if you disagree with anything posted! In the next week, I hope to add a page for Section Paeonia cultivars (lactifloras, etc). http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/PaeoniaMoutonCultivars Ciao, Jamie V. Cologne From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Fri Nov 19 13:28:35 2004 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Favorite Blue Flower Bulbs--TOW Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:28:32 -0800 On Nov 18, 2004, at 6:20 PM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > I nominated Delphinium for purple favorites and there are a couple of > native ones, D. decorum and D. paryii that are almost blue or part > blue that I really like. Also there is one that is really a gorgeous > color of blue that I received from NARGS seed as D. menziesii, which > it is not. I don't know what it really is, but I decided to add it > again as a sp. to the wiki, along with a picture of the roots, tuber? > when dormant. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Delphinium This is the one I got at a local nursery a few years ago! I didn't know it was geophytic. But it was so true blue I had to get it. I thought it was some commercial hybrid of some sort. Mine was short and became covered in these flowers--there was no flower "spike". --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Nov 19 13:42:48 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041119103723.010f1f70@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Favorite Blue Flower Bulbs--TOW Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:42:43 -0800 I don't recognize Mary Sue's "Delphinium non menziesii" but I do know that when this name appears in seed exchange lists, it is suspect. The real D. menziesii is difficult to grow at low elevations. It inhabits cliffs and screes, mostly, at elevations above the winter snow line. It seems to be short-lived even in the wild, reproducing by seed. The flower color is more violet than true blue. When I was cataloging the NARGS seed exchange list for 3 years in the mid-1990s, I was sometimes surprised to receive copious donations of garden-collected seed of species I knew to be challenging. Sometimes these were the true plants, being grown in particularly suitable climates (e.g., high alpines in places with continuous winter snow cover), but sometimes they turned out to be impostors that had been passed around for years under a "choice" name. A warning to verify the identity of your plants (even if you bought them from a nursery of good repute) before passing them on. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA At 10:28 AM 11/19/2004 -0800, you wrote: >On Nov 18, 2004, at 6:20 PM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: >>I nominated Delphinium for purple favorites and there are a couple of >>native ones, D. decorum and D. paryii that are almost blue or part blue >>that I really like. Also there is one that is really a gorgeous color of >>blue that I received from NARGS seed as D. menziesii, which it is not. I >>don't know what it really is, but I decided to add it again as a sp. to >>the wiki, along with a picture of the roots, tuber? when dormant. >>http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Delphinium > >This is the one I got at a local nursery a few years ago! I didn't know it >was geophytic. But it was so true blue I had to get it. I thought it was >some commercial hybrid of some sort. Mine was short and became covered in >these flowers--there was no flower "spike". > >--Lee Poulsen From dover74@msn.com Fri Nov 19 14:18:04 2004 Message-Id: From: "Robert Parker" Subject: Hymenocallis over winter Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:17:44 -0800 >From: "J.E. Shields" >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: [pbs] Hymenocallis over winter >Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:15:07 -0500 > >Joe and all, > >Thad Howard grew all sorts of Hymenocallis outdoors in the ground near San >Antonio for years. His interests were mainly the Mexican species, several >of which he discovered and named himself. > >Now if we can find a few Aloe and Agave that are hardy enough to grow >outdoors here in Indiana, I'll be very interested. As I've mentioned often >before, I have a plant of Hymenocallis liriosme which Thad sent me that has >survived one winter outdoors in the ground here in Indiana, in a very >protected spot outside the south end of one of my greenhouses. I did mulch >it well, and will need to mulch it again soon. I want eventually to try >some more accessions of H. liriosme in the ground here, when the stock has >increased more. > >Does anyone else have observations on hardiness of Hymenocallis outdoors in >the ground year-round? > >Regards, >Jim Shields >in central Indiana (USA) > >************************************************* >Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. >P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ >Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA >Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Nov 19 15:33:57 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: plastic orange boxes Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:33:54 -0800 This might be a puzzle to non-West Coast of North Americans. A Christmas tradition here is boxes of Japanese oranges which used to come in little wooden boxes, and now are in cardboard ones. The Chinese broke into this market a few years ago. This year the Chinese cardboard boxes are just coverings for a sturdy green plastic crate 18 cm x 25 cm by 12 cm deep ( 7 x 10 x 5 inches ). They will stack, and I think would be perfect for storing bulbs. Diane Whitehead Victoria B.C. Canada From dejager@bulbargence.com Sat Nov 20 02:57:47 2004 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Leucojum fabrei Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 08:58:54 +0100 Dear all, Allthough I can see the Mont Ventoux from here, I can not add any more information to this research. Possibly Pascal Vigneron can add some thing? (http://perso.club-internet.fr/v_pascal/amaryllidaceae/Acis/) Kinds regards Lauw le 16/11/04 20:31, crinum@libero.it à crinum@libero.it a écrit : No one has responded to Hans request for information about Leucojum fabrei > some time ago. It isn't listed in any of my books. I looked it up in IPNI > and this is what I found. Do any of our European list members know anything > about it. Lauw, have you seen it? Does anyone grow it? > > Amaryllidaceae Leucojum fabrei Quézel & Girerd > Bull. Soc. Bot. France, Lett. Bot. 137(1): 78. 1990 > A) An efficient conservation planning of rare plants is often obliterate by > the lack of a > comprehensive integration of ecological, biological and demographic data. This > observation is particularly true if we consider the paucity of informations > concerning > threatened Mediterranean plants. > The aims of our study are to examine through two rare geophytes: (i) > microhabitats > differences among and within populations, (ii) their influences on demography > and on > reproductive success, and (iii) their importance in relation to clonal versus > sexual > reproduction. > Leucojum nicaeense Ardoino and Leucojum fabrei Quézel & Girerd are > respectively > endemic from the Maritimes Alps and the Mont Ventoux (south-east France). > These two > endemics exhibit contrasted patterns of rarity and threats: L. fabrei > comprises only 3 > populations, whereas the about 20 known populations of L. nicaeense are > seriously > threatened by the tremendous urbanization and landscape fragmentation existing > on the Côte d’Azur. Floristic and environmental data indicate that the two taxa mainly grow on xerophytic and rocky grasslands, but an higher ecological amplitude exists for L. nicaeense, which is found along a short geographical gradient but a strong ecological > one. Demography of L. nicaeense seems to be influenced by the closed presence > of a > low ligneous stratum but L. fabrei shows no interference with regard to growth > forms. > Furthermore, reproductive success was positively correlated with population > density for > > L. fabrei and with the total number individuals for L. nicaeense. Our results > indicate that > the importance of microhabitat-specific differences imply to consider the > effects of a local > scale variability. These data should allow to develop an adequate conservation > planning > in order to surmount the hugeness of the actual land-use changes > characterizing this > region. > > B) http://perso.club-internet.fr/v_pascal/amaryllidaceae/Acis/ > > > Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence Mas d'Argence 30300 Fourques France tel 31(0)466 016 519 fax 0466 011 245 http://www.bulbargence.com From Marque219@Yahoo.com Sat Nov 20 21:14:23 2004 Message-Id: From: Mark Wilcox Subject: Nerine hybrid Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:14:22 -0500 Dear All, I have just added a picture of Nerine X 'Afterglow' to the wiki. You can see it via the following link: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NerineHybrids Mark Wilcox Washington, DC From DaveKarn@aol.com Sat Nov 20 22:11:26 2004 Message-Id: <76.46a32889.2ed1615a@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: Nerine x Lycoris hybrids . . . ? Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 22:11:22 EST Hello all ~ In perusing the beautiful pictures on the Nerine pages on the wiki, a thought occurs that prompts me to ask if Nerine and Lycoris are close enough that crosses between the two genera are possible . . . certainly the flowers are similar, as are the growth patterns. Best, Dave Karnstedt Silverton, OR email: davekarn@aol.com From ernestwells@mindspring.com Sat Nov 20 22:20:49 2004 Message-Id: <56873D94-3B6C-11D9-8585-000A95937A28@mindspring.com> From: Tom Wells Subject: North American Clivia Society Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 19:20:47 -0800 The North American Clivia Society is currently conducting a Clivia Auction to support the 3rd International Huntington Clivia Symposium & Show to be held Marc 26th and 27th, 2005. Please visit the following site for more information, . Tom Wells From dells@voicenet.com Sun Nov 21 07:26:47 2004 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: About Pacific BX 81 Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:26:35 -0500 Dear All, In case you were wondering, I should be putting BX 81 orders into the mail on Monday. Have been very busy with my real job. Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From jshields@indy.net Sun Nov 21 09:17:33 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041121091129.00b05b58@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Nerine x Lycoris hybrids . . . ? Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 09:17:32 -0500 Hi Dave and all, According to Alan Meerow's DNA studies, the Nerines are embedded in the ancient African clade while Lycoris are part of the Eurasian clade, which also includes Narcissus and Galanthus. Nerine is most closely related to Crinum, Amaryllis, and Brunsvigia, e.g. bigenerics like Amarine. Now I have seen plants 30 or so years ago, produced by Ms. Margot Williams at USDA using embryo rescue, the reperesented such wide crossdes aas you suggest. One was and African Crinum X Hippeastrum. If that cross can be made to work, Nerine X Lycoris could too, I'd bet. But you would probably have to be willing to use embryo rescue. Go for it! The Crinum X Hippeastrum was a weirdly distorted plant. It looked like the genes were not at all happy to be sharing the same cell nucleus. Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana At 10:11 PM 11/20/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Hello all ~ > >In perusing the beautiful pictures on the Nerine pages on the wiki, a thought >occurs that prompts me to ask if Nerine and Lycoris are close enough that >crosses between the two genera are possible . . . certainly the flowers are >similar, as are the growth patterns. > >Best, >Dave Karnstedt >Silverton, OR >email: davekarn@aol.com >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From Jamievande@freenet.de Sun Nov 21 09:37:40 2004 Message-Id: <00a201c4cfd8$7de260d0$6502a8c0@Jamie2> From: "Jamie" Subject: Fw:An interesting web site with geophytes and succulents Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:43:39 +0100 I'm forewarding this, as the website mentioned is just fantastic! Takes a while to load and worth every minute! Jamie V. Cologne ----- Original Message ----- > > http://www.asianflora.com/index2.htm > > > From crinum@libero.it Sun Nov 21 10:21:48 2004 Message-Id: From: "crinum@libero.it" Subject: Fw:An interesting web site with geophytes and succulents Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:21:47 +0100 Thanks Jamie, really fantastic. Alberto Italy ---------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : "Pacific Bulb Society" pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:43:39 +0100 Subject : [pbs] Fw:An interesting web site with geophytes and succulents > I'm forewarding this, as the website mentioned is just fantastic! Takes a > while to load and worth every minute! > > Jamie V. > Cologne > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > http://www.asianflora.com/index2.htm > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Alberto Grossi Italy ____________________________________________________________ Libero ADSL: navighi gratis a 1.2 Mega, senza canone e costi di attivazione. Abbonati subito su http://www.libero.it From tglavich@sbcglobal.net Sun Nov 21 10:49:45 2004 Message-Id: <20041121154939.34989.qmail@web80807.mail.yahoo.com> From: Thomas Glavich Subject: Nerine x Lycoris hybrids . . . ? Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:49:39 -0800 (PST) Jim, By any chance do you have a photo of any of the very wide crosses? To stretch the topic a bit, yesterday a few of us were discussing the lack of good color in Habranthus, and the possibility of hybidizing some in. You mention a bit on this on your web page. Do you know if this has ever been done, and were there pictures taken of the resulting flower? Thanks Tom Glavich "J.E. Shields" wrote: Hi Dave and all, According to Alan Meerow's DNA studies, the Nerines are embedded in the ancient African clade while Lycoris are part of the Eurasian clade, which also includes Narcissus and Galanthus. Nerine is most closely related to Crinum, Amaryllis, and Brunsvigia, e.g. bigenerics like Amarine. Now I have seen plants 30 or so years ago, produced by Ms. Margot Williams at USDA using embryo rescue, the reperesented such wide crossdes aas you suggest. One was and African Crinum X Hippeastrum. If that cross can be made to work, Nerine X Lycoris could too, I'd bet. But you would probably have to be willing to use embryo rescue. Go for it! The Crinum X Hippeastrum was a weirdly distorted plant. It looked like the genes were not at all happy to be sharing the same cell nucleus. Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana At 10:11 PM 11/20/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Hello all ~ > >In perusing the beautiful pictures on the Nerine pages on the wiki, a thought >occurs that prompts me to ask if Nerine and Lycoris are close enough that >crosses between the two genera are possible . . . certainly the flowers are >similar, as are the growth patterns. > >Best, >Dave Karnstedt >Silverton, OR >email: davekarn@aol.com >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From c-mueller@tamu.edu Sun Nov 21 11:01:21 2004 Message-Id: From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: About Pacific BX 81 Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:00:37 -0600 Thanks, Dell, for all you do for the Exchange. It can't be fast or easy to pore through all those seeds and make distributions, address the packages, etc. Cynthia Mueller >>> dells@voicenet.com 11/21/04 6:26:35 AM >>> Dear All, In case you were wondering, I should be putting BX 81 orders into the mail on Monday. Have been very busy with my real job. Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jshields@indy.net Sun Nov 21 13:40:02 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041121133347.0330cbd0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Nerine x Lycoris hybrids . . . ? Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:39:58 -0500 Tom and all, Habranthus, Zephyranthes, Sprekelia, and Rhodophiala all seem to cross with one another, at least sometimes. There have been occasional articles on the bigeneric hybrids in Rain Lilies published in HERBERTIA over the years. Since Rhodophiala bifida is hardy here where I live, I would like to see someone using it to breed both rich red flower color and cold tolerance into some of the Rain Lilies. If someone is going to try this, a compilation of chromosome counts for the species in this group would be very handy. I don't plan to work in this area, but I would be happy to field test any potentially hardy Rain Lily hybrids that anyone creates. I unfortunately don't have pictures of any of the wide intergeneric hybrids that Margot made way back when. Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA), USDA zone 5 At 07:49 AM 11/21/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Jim, > >By any chance do you have a photo of any of the very wide crosses? > >To stretch the topic a bit, yesterday a few of us were discussing the lack >of good color in Habranthus, and the possibility of hybidizing some >in. You mention a bit on this on your web page. Do you know if this has >ever been done, and were there pictures taken of the resulting flower? > >Thanks > >Tom Glavich ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sun Nov 21 15:12:55 2004 Message-Id: From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Homeria collina Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:12:41 EST Hi, I got some corms about 18-20 months ago, from an email garden friend. We traded daylilies for Homeria and Lycoris. I potted them up, and they grew a little, but they didn't get lush in the 2-3 months before hot, wet summer set in. I dried them down for 4-5 months and then brought them out for last winter--they were in a small clay pot (7-8 inches) and in soil that was about 60% coarse sand and perlite. They did OK all winter and then I dried them down this past June. I don't know if they will take summer here. June was a mess with rain every day and sticky humidity in between, with nights around 75 F (24 C) and days near 95 F (35 C). Such temperatures are nothing like the H. collina has a reputation as a weed in some climates, so perhaps it is very forgiving and might do fine here in summer if provided with adequate drainage. The corms have been outside now since mid-October (winter 2) and I repotted them up into a 10 inch clay pot (double soil volume, and provided a bit richer soil mix around the original soil ball. The plants have responded well--suddenly taller than ever before at 18-20 inches. I'll keep the pot on the sunny front porch; the corms did well there last year, happily enduring temperatures down to 25 F (-4 C). This fall I have provided dilute fertilizer--first 1/2 strength fish emulsion and then, 4 weeks later, 1/4 strength 20-20-20 with micronutrients. The foliage is attractive, grasslike, sometimes a bit pendant, richly green but with a hint of blue on a cloudy day like today. The grasslike leaves look good in a terra cotta pot. Mine have not flowered, perhaps this coming spring they will do so. I understand yellow forms exist; mine are supposed to be orange and I'll look around for yellow eventually. Cordially, Conroe Joe zone 9a, 5-7 inches of rain this week, lows near 60 F, highs near 75 F greater Houston, TX area From totototo@pacificcoast.net Mon Nov 22 07:48:03 2004 Message-Id: From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Homeria collina Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 04:47:15 +8 In the pbs Digest, Vol 22, Issue 23, there were several messages mentioning difficulty buying Homeria collina. Unless I'm mistaken about the species, this homeria is widely available here among the pre-packaged bulbs sold in the spring for summer flower. These packages contain both orange and yellow forms. And they're not expensive. I've found that while it is pretty hardy here (zone 8 but with seriously cold winter weather some years), it never performs well the first year after planting. It seems to take a year or two to establish, but then it's a very good performer. It shows no sign of going weedy; I'm not even sure it sets seed unless it's sited in a warm spot. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From msittner@mcn.org Sun Nov 21 16:15:01 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041121125409.01e7a4a0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Homeria collina Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:02:20 -0800 Dear Joe, My brother grew Homeria in the ground in Houston for a number of years and really loved them. Eventually they dwindled, but where he had them planted it was very shady so don't know if it was that or something else. He was sorry to lose them. I find a lot of the Moraea, Homeria types, that I grow are much happier in the ground than in a pot. They bloom better for one thing. I grew them in raised beds in Stockton in clay soil where I had perennials and they did fine with regular summer water (the raised beds may have helped some and the perennials may have taken up some of the moisture, but the soil was clay) while they were dormant. I believe these are only allowed in states where they can be weedy like California. At least I recall Jim Duggan saying he wasn't supposed to ship them out of state. Otherwise I'd send you some to try planting out as I have some that got dug up when we worked on our septic system. Mary Sue From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sun Nov 21 16:09:31 2004 Message-Id: <1da.2febbf57.2ed25dff@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Rotating Pot Culture For Bulbs Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:09:19 EST I like plants that can rotate in and out of season easily. By this I mean I leave them outside for months and don't have to bother with them to protect from too much cold or too much rain. There are so many bulbs that will do this, but it is not always clear which ones will be happy here--the main culprit is too much rain--even in their regular growing season. Some bulbs behave like cacti from extreme deserts, and it is just too wet here. Those that have done OK here get 7 months outside and 5 months indoors (totally dry and air conditioned). The bulbs that I've had success with (not that many yet) are easy for another reason; they don't need too big a pot--10 inches seems about right. Thus, there is room for variety on a not-too-large sunny porch and I have enough room to store them indoors in the off season. I just give them a shot of mild pyrethroid insecticide (soil drench in early fall) before I store them and I don't worry about insects. The pots sit here and there, and my friends and family are used to seeing them as doorstops, etc. Some sit on the top shelf in the laundry room where temperatures are generally warmer than the rest of the house (up to 85-90 F) during the day when air conditioning is minimized. I have not yet tried to store summer-growing bulbs-I suppose they would do fine in the garage but the humidity will be higher there. I'll try some experimenting with Eucomis vandermerwei. As far as bulbs go, I am first and foremost, a Crinum addict, but some other species are wonderful and take up far less space. I'm happily waiting on some Nerine species that I'm growing from seed--perhaps they will find the pot rotation culture to their liking. I think I'd like to try some of the Moraea species-I've resisted them a long time because the fortnight lily is such a tediously common landscape plant where I grew up (Southern California). But, plants I want to try include Moraea, more Lachenalia, and some other deciduous Cape bulbs. I think that winters in this area (greater Houston, TX area) will be acceptable to bulbs that come from savannah areas or perhaps grasslands, but maybe not for bulbs from truly arid deserts. If they are like cacti and North American succulents, the bulbs that will do best here (greater Houston, TX) will be those from regions that normally receive at least 15-20 inches of rain per year. Cordially, Joe From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sun Nov 21 16:25:24 2004 Message-Id: <1a9.2ba9ef05.2ed261a4@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: First Summer For Lachenalia Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:24:52 EST Hi, I was concerned about over-summering some Lachenalia seedlings this past summer, their first summer. I had germinated them a bit late (some didn't germinate till late February) and they were not very big plants at the start of summer. The general advice was to dry them down; most thought they wouldn't make it through a tropical-type summer as we have here in the greater Houston, TX area. A year earlier I had successfully killed a few Lachenalia seedlings when I tried to keep them outdoors all summer-they really resented wetness coupled with warm days and nights. So, I put my seedlings indoors about the beginning of June-I withheld water and just kept them in a bright window-they died down eventually, and I supposed they had made tiny storage bulbs. The pots were small (12 ounce plastic cups) and the soil dried quickly and completely indoors, so I put about a teaspoon of water in the pots every other week. I don't know if this water was helpful-but it was therapeutic for me. Finally, about 6 weeks ago, I put the pots back outside; this was just as an extremely warm October arrived-but with little rain-and no Lachenalia appeared. However, in the past 3 weeks, every single species has started to send up leaves-they were probably just waiting for nights to get a bit cooler. I'm pleased that they survived so well-the advice I got to dry them down for summer was very good advice indeed. They have been planted in a mix that is about 50% humus, 25% coarse sand, and 25% perlite. I don't know if this is what they prefer. For now, they don't need new pots so perhaps I'll leave them in the drinking cups another year. Conroe Joe From jimmckenney@starpower.net Sun Nov 21 16:28:08 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20041121162818.00a645f0@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Tigridia pavonia winter storage Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:28:18 -0500 Dear All: Does anyone have a good method for winter storage of Tigridia pavonia in cold climates? All of the old books suggest that they be kept very dry during the winter. When I try that, I get crispy, nearly dead plants. In contrast to that, I've tried storing the freshly dug plump moist bulbs in zip lock bags in the refrigerator. This gave good results, but it was grievously offensive to the gods of domestic tranquility. Any other ideas? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where my bedroom floor is a minefield of bags of freshly dug, muddy tender bulbs. From jshields@indy.net Sun Nov 21 16:36:47 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041121163441.03311050@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Tigridia pavonia winter storage Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:36:43 -0500 Hey, Jim! Do what I did to try to preserve some domestic tranquillity: Buy an extra refrigerator or two, just for plants. It does help, except when I overflow my seeds, bulbs, pollen, etc. into the food fridge or freezer. Jim Shields At 04:28 PM 11/21/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Dear All: > >Does anyone have a good method for winter storage of Tigridia pavonia in >cold climates? > >All of the old books suggest that they be kept very dry during the winter. >When I try that, I get crispy, nearly dead plants. > >In contrast to that, I've tried storing the freshly dug plump moist bulbs >in zip lock bags in the refrigerator. This gave good results, but it was >grievously offensive to the gods of domestic tranquility. > >Any other ideas? > >Jim McKenney ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From hornig@usadatanet.net Sun Nov 21 17:24:13 2004 Message-Id: <87240-220041102122234775@M2W049.mail2web.com> From: "hornig@usadatanet.net" Subject: Tigridia pavonia winter storage Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:23:47 -0500 I too bought an extra refrigerator. Try to find an old clunker that is not "frost free". These maintain a more even temperature and humidity. You may have to defrost occasionally. Extra refrigerators come in handy around Thanksgiving and Christmas, too, if you wipe out the loose peat moss and stuff first. :-) Re Tigridias: I store mine dry in the basement, which is generally cool (50-60) and probably fairly humid. Once they've dried out after harvest, they can be put into a brown paper bag loosely enclosed in a plastic grocery bag. This seems to work fine. Ellen Hornig Seneca Hill Perennials Oswego, NY USA Original Message: ----------------- From: J.E. Shields jshields@indy.net Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:36:43 -0500 To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] Tigridia pavonia winter storage Hey, Jim! Do what I did to try to preserve some domestic tranquillity: Buy an extra refrigerator or two, just for plants. It does help, except when I overflow my seeds, bulbs, pollen, etc. into the food fridge or freezer. Jim Shields At 04:28 PM 11/21/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Dear All: > >Does anyone have a good method for winter storage of Tigridia pavonia in >cold climates? > >All of the old books suggest that they be kept very dry during the winter. >When I try that, I get crispy, nearly dead plants. > >In contrast to that, I've tried storing the freshly dug plump moist bulbs >in zip lock bags in the refrigerator. This gave good results, but it was >grievously offensive to the gods of domestic tranquility. > >Any other ideas? > >Jim McKenney ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From buj.joschko@freenet.de Sun Nov 21 17:29:14 2004 Message-Id: From: "Hans und Babs Joschko" Subject: AW: [pbs] Homeria collina Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:29:17 +0100 Hi plantfriends , I'm not a long time a member in this group - and this is the first that I read about Homeria - this plants are not offered here in Germany . Is anybody here in this who has surplus of this plants ? Maybe we can swap or I will pay . Please contact me privat . With best wishes Hans -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]Im Auftrag von ConroeJoe@aol.com Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. November 2004 21:13 An: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Betreff: [pbs] Homeria collina Hi, I got some corms about 18-20 months ago, from an email garden friend. We traded daylilies for Homeria and Lycoris. I potted them up, and they grew a little, but they didn't get lush in the 2-3 months before hot, wet summer set in. I dried them down for 4-5 months and then brought them out for last winter--they were in a small clay pot (7-8 inches) and in soil that was about 60% coarse sand and perlite. They did OK all winter and then I dried them down this past June. I don't know if they will take summer here. June was a mess with rain every day and sticky humidity in between, with nights around 75 F (24 C) and days near 95 F (35 C). Such temperatures are nothing like the H. collina has a reputation as a weed in some climates, so perhaps it is very forgiving and might do fine here in summer if provided with adequate drainage. The corms have been outside now since mid-October (winter 2) and I repotted them up into a 10 inch clay pot (double soil volume, and provided a bit richer soil mix around the original soil ball. The plants have responded well--suddenly taller than ever before at 18-20 inches. I'll keep the pot on the sunny front porch; the corms did well there last year, happily enduring temperatures down to 25 F (-4 C). This fall I have provided dilute fertilizer--first 1/2 strength fish emulsion and then, 4 weeks later, 1/4 strength 20-20-20 with micronutrients. The foliage is attractive, grasslike, sometimes a bit pendant, richly green but with a hint of blue on a cloudy day like today. The grasslike leaves look good in a terra cotta pot. Mine have not flowered, perhaps this coming spring they will do so. I understand yellow forms exist; mine are supposed to be orange and I'll look around for yellow eventually. Cordially, Conroe Joe zone 9a, 5-7 inches of rain this week, lows near 60 F, highs near 75 F greater Houston, TX area _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jimmckenney@starpower.net Sun Nov 21 18:29:16 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20041121172949.00a633c0@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Tigridia pavonia winter storage Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:29:49 -0500 Jim and Ellen, Of course you mean not a second but a third refrigerator. The second one is already in place and is dedicated to the products of a particular brewery - there might be a disreputable looking cabbage or two in there, too. The vegetable crisper is stuffed with packets of seeds (so is the small freezer section). There is also a stand alone freezer. No, I don't think there is room for a fourth big appliance. Jim McKenney From robhamilton@trump.net.au Sun Nov 21 18:18:40 2004 Message-Id: <4ED5DFA7-3C13-11D9-819E-000A95EC1BAA@trump.net.au> From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Why wont my seedlings return ? Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:16:00 +1100 Hi all, Firstly apologies for those who receive this as a multiple posting, but I want to reach as many experts as possible. I have an ongoing problem of not getting my winter rainfall South African amaryllids to return in their second season. They grow well from sowing in autumn / winter until late spring . As it is now towards the end of their growing season here I have been gently removing the surface of potting mix and in most cases am finding plenty of small bulbs sitting there with active roots in most cases. They do occasionally sprout the following autumn winter but often a lot less than were present. There are exceptions and this year Brunsvigia orientalis , Cybistetes longifolia , Haemanthus coccinea , Nerine humilis and Strumaria discifera and tenella all returned although the latter tended to remain evergreen through summer. In past years I have raised several other Brunsvigia , Crossyne and Strumaria species without any problems. I have no such problem with summer rainfall amaryllids with often grow for 12 to 18 months before their first dormancy. I wonder if our daytime temperatures being too low is part of the problem - from late autumn we often have prolonged periods where daytime high does not get above 10-12C with odd days even lower. However there are many winter growing amaryllids which are very happy growing in the garden here including Amaryllis belladonna, Brunsvigia jospehinae , Haemanthus coccinea and Nerine sarniensis and others of these genera which I have purchased as more mature seedling bulbs seem happy. I am going to trial some of the species under glass next winter to see if it helps with a glasshouse currently under construction. I now raise all these seeds in commercial seed raising mix 50;50 with coarse sand. I would love to hear of your ideas and experiences. Cheers, Rob Dr R F Hamilton 7 Beach Road Snug 7054 Tasmania Zone 9 equivalent at 43 °S Dr R F Hamilton 7 Beach Road Snug 7054 Tasmania Phone 0362679221 Fax 0362679041 From ang.por@aliceposta.it Sun Nov 21 18:38:34 2004 Message-Id: <001001c4d023$db9319e0$c20d3352@t7t2y7> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Storing Hippeastrum seeds Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 00:43:08 +0100 Dear friends, I have some Hippeastrum striatum seeds, just harvested, that I would like to sow next spring. Which is the best way to store them, to avoide they loose viability? Should I keep them at room temp on in fridge at 5°C/42F ? many thanks Angelo Porcelli Italy From plants_man@bigpond.com Sun Nov 21 19:05:33 2004 Message-Id: <016901c4d026$f8bdf5f0$a1fa8690@magdash> From: "Daryl Geoghegan" Subject: Why wont my seedlings return ? Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:05:25 +1100 Hi Rob, the first adjustment I suggest is your raising medium. Try pure sand and feed with blood and bone and woodash. The simpler the soil content, the more success I have had. As bulbs are natures adaptatin to poor soils, you will find that sand and clay keep these bulbs really well during the dormant period. The second is, once they are settled and growing in the sand, use a small covering of grass over the soil during the hotter months. This slows down dessication of most small Amaryllids. My challenge here is too much heat and spring rain before they have had a chance to die down and go dormant. This cooks them in the soil and I can loose them very easily if I don't shade them somehow. I am growing corn in the rows this year and that is working well. Must be that we all have one hickup or another in dealing with our environments. Have a great day, Dash. Daryl Geoghegan, Mainly Amaryllids Garden, P O Box 173, Barnawartha, Victoria, 3688, Australia. +61 02 60267377, Mobile 0429 621 612 Visit my web site @ http://www.mainlyamaryllidsgarden.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ New Home & Garden site - http://www.thegardentalk.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Hamilton" To: Cc: "Pacific Society" Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 10:16 AM Subject: [pbs] Why wont my seedlings return ? Hi all, Firstly apologies for those who receive this as a multiple posting, but I want to reach as many experts as possible. I have an ongoing problem of not getting my winter rainfall South African amaryllids to return in their second season. They grow well from sowing in autumn / winter until late spring . As it is now towards the end of their growing season here I have been gently removing the surface of potting mix and in most cases am finding plenty of small bulbs sitting there with active roots in most cases. They do occasionally sprout the following autumn winter but often a lot less than were present. There are exceptions and this year Brunsvigia orientalis , Cybistetes longifolia , Haemanthus coccinea , Nerine humilis and Strumaria discifera and tenella all returned although the latter tended to remain evergreen through summer. In past years I have raised several other Brunsvigia , Crossyne and Strumaria species without any problems. I have no such problem with summer rainfall amaryllids with often grow for 12 to 18 months before their first dormancy. I wonder if our daytime temperatures being too low is part of the problem - from late autumn we often have prolonged periods where daytime high does not get above 10-12C with odd days even lower. However there are many winter growing amaryllids which are very happy growing in the garden here including Amaryllis belladonna, Brunsvigia jospehinae , Haemanthus coccinea and Nerine sarniensis and others of these genera which I have purchased as more mature seedling bulbs seem happy. I am going to trial some of the species under glass next winter to see if it helps with a glasshouse currently under construction. I now raise all these seeds in commercial seed raising mix 50;50 with coarse sand. I would love to hear of your ideas and experiences. Cheers, Rob Dr R F Hamilton 7 Beach Road Snug 7054 Tasmania Zone 9 equivalent at 43 °S Dr R F Hamilton 7 Beach Road Snug 7054 Tasmania Phone 0362679221 Fax 0362679041 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jshields@indy.net Sun Nov 21 20:00:26 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041121195554.02122518@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Tigridia pavonia winter storage Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:00:23 -0500 Jim McK., It's obvious: You park your car and your wife's both on the driveway in front of the garage and add the extra fridges inside the garage! Or do what we did after that option was overloaded. We moved. The extra garage is the next logical step, insulated and with a nice gas furnace to keep it above freezing in winter. Unfortunately, it is now full of plants and pots, so the new Gator 4X4 is in the garage space where my car used to sit, and my car is out in the driveway. Fortunately, we still have 4 more acres to build on. Jim S. At 05:29 PM 11/21/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Jim and Ellen, > >Of course you mean not a second but a third refrigerator. The second one is >already in place and is dedicated to the products of a particular brewery >- there might be a disreputable looking cabbage or two in there, too. > >The vegetable crisper is stuffed with packets of seeds (so is the small >freezer section). > >There is also a stand alone freezer. > >No, I don't think there is room for a fourth big appliance. > >Jim McKenney ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From dkramb@badbear.com Sun Nov 21 20:23:54 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20041121202021.01b86380@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Tigridia pavonia winter storage Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:23:55 -0500 Did it ever occur to you to focus on plants/seeds that don't require special winter care? :-) Blasphemy!!!! Actually, I've forced myself to do just that. I had too many pots to haul indoors during bad winter weather. It was too ugly and too much a burden. So two years ago I started to eliminate the not-so-hardy species from my collection. This year I only have one pot left!!! I think that's quite an achievement. PS: A lot of plants I decided to try my luck by planting them up against the house for extra winter protection. So far, some of them have survived, but only time will really tell if it will succeed. Dennis in Cincinnati At 08:00 PM 11/21/2004, you wrote: >Jim McK., > >It's obvious: You park your car and your wife's both on the driveway in >front of the garage and add the extra fridges inside the garage! Or do >what we did after that option was overloaded. We moved. The extra garage >is the next logical step, insulated and with a nice gas furnace to keep it >above freezing in winter. Unfortunately, it is now full of plants and >pots, so the new Gator 4X4 is in the garage space where my car used to >sit, and my car is out in the driveway. Fortunately, we still have 4 more >acres to build on. > >Jim S. > > >At 05:29 PM 11/21/2004 -0500, you wrote: >>Jim and Ellen, >> >>Of course you mean not a second but a third refrigerator. The second one is >>already in place and is dedicated to the products of a particular brewery >>- there might be a disreputable looking cabbage or two in there, too. >> >>The vegetable crisper is stuffed with packets of seeds (so is the small >>freezer section). >> >>There is also a stand alone freezer. >> >>No, I don't think there is room for a fourth big appliance. >> >>Jim McKenney > >************************************************* >Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. >P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ >Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA >Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Zonneveld@rulbim.leidenuniv.nl Mon Nov 22 11:00:43 2004 Message-Id: <41A21AA1.9949.1A21CB8@localhost> From: "zonneveld" Subject: Cryptostephanus DNA Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:58:09 +0100 Dear Folks People from all over the world were so kind to send me some Cryptostephanus vansoni. showing the utility of Email. I have measured from all 6 Cryptostephanus vansonii the nuclear DNA content. One out of six is an odd value I like to have your comment please no1. no2 from G. Duncan Kirstenbosch no3 Ken Smith Australia no4 fr Connie and James Abel S Africa no5 ( pink form!) from J Waddick USA All had nearly the same value 44.6 picogram DNA per nucleus. However a ""typical but large leaved white flowering form of J Waddick had 36.4 pg This suggests that it a = hybrid b.= a new species. It would have been simple if the pink form was the odd one ! Moreover a leaf of the other two species might trow some light here too! Ben J.M.Zonneveld Institute of Biology,Leiden University, Clusius lab Wassenaarse weg 64, 2333 AL Leiden, The Netherlands Zonneveld@rulbim.Leidenuniv.NL Fax: +31-71-5274999. min temp -10C (15F) From Zonneveld@rulbim.leidenuniv.nl Mon Nov 22 11:00:44 2004 Message-Id: <41A21AFB.5916.1A37D13@localhost> From: "zonneveld" Subject: cryptostephanus DNA Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:59:39 +0100 Dear Folks People from all over the world were so kind to send me some Cryptostephanus vansoni. showing the utility of Email. I have measured from all 6 Cryptostephanus vansonii the nuclear DNA content. One out of six is an odd value I like to have your comment please no1. no2 from G. Duncan Kirstenbosch no3 Ken Smith Australia no4 fr Connie and James Abel S Africa no5 ( pink form!) from J Waddick USA All had nearly the same value 44.6 picogram DNA per nucleus. However a ""typical but large leaved white flowering form of J Waddick had 36.4 pg This suggests that it a = hybrid b.= a new species. It would have been simple if the pink form was the odd one ! Moreover a leaf of the other two species might trow some light here too! Ben J.M.Zonneveld Institute of Biology,Leiden University, Clusius lab Wassenaarse weg 64, 2333 AL Leiden, The Netherlands Zonneveld@rulbim.Leidenuniv.NL Fax: +31-71-5274999. min temp -10C (15F) From Zonneveld@rulbim.leidenuniv.nl Mon Nov 22 11:05:01 2004 Message-Id: <41A21B55.6009.1A4DE1A@localhost> From: "zonneveld" Subject: crypto DNA Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:01:09 +0100 Dear Folks People from all over the world were so kind to send me some Cryptostephanus vansoni. showing the utility of Email. I have measured from all 6 Cryptostephanus vansonii the nuclear DNA content. One out of six is an odd value I like to have your comment please no1. no2 from G. Duncan Kirstenbosch no3 Ken Smith Australia no4 fr Connie and James Abel S Africa no5 ( pink form!) from J Waddick USA All had nearly the same value 44.6 picogram DNA per nucleus. However a ""typical but large leaved white flowering form of J Waddick had 36.4 pg This suggests that it a = hybrid b.= a new species. It would have been simple if the pink form was the odd one ! Moreover a leaf of the other two species might trow some light here too! Ben J.M.Zonneveld Institute of Biology,Leiden University, Clusius lab Wassenaarse weg 64, 2333 AL Leiden, The Netherlands Zonneveld@rulbim.Leidenuniv.NL Fax: +31-71-5274999. min temp -10C (15F) From Zonneveld@rulbim.leidenuniv.nl Mon Nov 22 11:05:03 2004 Message-Id: <41A21C36.17161.1A84AC8@localhost> From: "zonneveld" Subject: crypto DNA Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:04:54 +0100 Dear Folks People from all over the world were so kind to send me some Cryptostephanus vansoni. showing the utility of Email. I have measured from all 6 Cryptostephanus vansonii the nuclear DNA content. One out of six is an odd value I like to have your comment please no1. no2 from G. Duncan Kirstenbosch no3 Ken Smith Australia no4 fr Connie and James Abel S Africa no5 ( pink form!) from J Waddick USA All had nearly the same value 44.6 picogram DNA per nucleus. However a ""typical but large leaved white flowering form of J Waddick had 36.4 pg This suggests that it a = hybrid b.= a new species. It would have been simple if the pink form was the odd one ! Moreover a leaf of the other two species might trow some light here too! Ben J.M.Zonneveld Institute of Biology,Leiden University, Clusius lab Wassenaarse weg 64, 2333 AL Leiden, The Netherlands Zonneveld@rulbim.Leidenuniv.NL Fax: +31-71-5274999. min temp -10C (15F) From msittner@mcn.org Mon Nov 22 12:52:31 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041122093504.015f9ad0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Searching the PBS Archives Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:51:58 -0800 Hi All, Three or four weeks ago I noticed that the pbs archives could no longer be searched by words as the box that allowed you do so was gone. I wrote ibiblio asking about it, but did not get a response. Yesterday one of our members wrote privately asking about it so I wrote them again and this morning got a reply. Apparently one of the previous ibiblio staffers had created this utility outside of the mailman software and they are not longer supporting it. Although they would like to see this included in the future, it would be up to the software developers of mailman to add it in an update. I found the url for mailman: http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/ Maybe if a number of us emailed them and told them how much we would appreciate their adding a search feature to the archive page it would encourage them to do so. In the meantime, our list can be searched on Google. If you add in pbslist to whatever other key words you are using, perhaps it would help narrow down what you find to our posts, or at least move them closer to the top pages of the find. Mary Sue From ConroeJoe@aol.com Mon Nov 22 18:47:01 2004 Message-Id: <1e9.2f7cc9c9.2ed3d470@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: That Outlaw! Homeria. Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:46:56 EST Hi, Some folks wrote to me about Homeria, and the subject of its weediness came up. I agreed to check with USDA lists. I was surprised to find Homeria listed as a noxious weed for the USA. This means that, if you live in the USA, you (me too) cannot import it from another country (not plants, not corms, not seeds). It also means that the plant cannot be mailed or distributed across state lines in the USA. Some states also outlaw Homeria, I don't have a comprehensive list of those states. But in the past most states that list a plant as a noxious weed also outlaw any type of ownership for gardening purposes. For sure Alabama and North Carolina have listed Homeria as a noxious weed. The USDA outlawed "Homeria spp., cape tulip," which I interpret to mean the whole genus (no matter if you now call such plants Moraea). But, I don't think the whole genus of Moraea is outlawed--only those plants once known as Homeria. Very confusing! So, I have my single potted plant in Texas. I cannot send seeds to another state, and I cannot receive seeds from another state. In order to avoid Homeria collina from becoming the "plant that ate Texas," I will watch mine carefully and prevent any seeds from being released. Under the law, as I understand it, I can send the seeds to people in Texas, but I don't think I will. I wonder if anyone in Texas has seeds of the yellow-flowered type, or some of the pretty bi-colors. Oh well. I've pasted in some text from the Federal Register, year 2000, just below. It is the summary of the action listing Homeria as a noxious weed. Cordially, Joe Shaw ------------------------------------------------ Federal Register: May 25, 2000 (Volume 65, Number 102) Homeria spp.  added to Weed List SUMMARY: We are amending the noxious weeds regulations by adding Homeria spp. (cape tulips) to the list of terrestrial weeds. Listed noxious weeds may be moved into or through the United States or interstate only under a written permit and under conditions that would not involve a danger of dissemination of the weeds. This action is necessary to prevent the artificial spread of noxious weeds into noninfested areas of the United States. From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Mon Nov 22 20:03:00 2004 Message-Id: <001d01c4d0f8$285df6d0$0fd2f7a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: That Outlaw! Homeria. Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:02:50 -0800 Joe: I grew Homeria for many years in a climate that should have made them feel right at home - the Central Valley of California with mild, wet winters and dry, hot summers. It never seeded at all. However, when the ruling came down, I took them all into the local agricultural inspector who destroyed them. I didn't want trouble - not from the Homerias, of course, they were never any trouble at all. Diana Telos ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 3:46 PM Subject: [pbs] That Outlaw! Homeria. Hi, Some folks wrote to me about Homeria, and the subject of its weediness came up. I agreed to check with USDA lists. I was surprised to find Homeria listed as a noxious weed for the USA. This means that, if you live in the USA, you (me too) cannot import it from another country (not plants, not corms, not seeds). It also means that the plant cannot be mailed or distributed across state lines in the USA. Some states also outlaw Homeria, I don't have a comprehensive list of those states. But in the past most states that list a plant as a noxious weed also outlaw any type of ownership for gardening purposes. For sure Alabama and North Carolina have listed Homeria as a noxious weed. The USDA outlawed "Homeria spp., cape tulip," which I interpret to mean the whole genus (no matter if you now call such plants Moraea). But, I don't think the whole genus of Moraea is outlawed--only those plants once known as Homeria. Very confusing! So, I have my single potted plant in Texas. I cannot send seeds to another state, and I cannot receive seeds from another state. In order to avoid Homeria collina from becoming the "plant that ate Texas," I will watch mine carefully and prevent any seeds from being released. Under the law, as I understand it, I can send the seeds to people in Texas, but I don't think I will. I wonder if anyone in Texas has seeds of the yellow-flowered type, or some of the pretty bi-colors. Oh well. I've pasted in some text from the Federal Register, year 2000, just below. It is the summary of the action listing Homeria as a noxious weed. Cordially, Joe Shaw ------------------------------------------------ Federal Register: May 25, 2000 (Volume 65, Number 102) Homeria spp. added to Weed List SUMMARY: We are amending the noxious weeds regulations by adding Homeria spp. (cape tulips) to the list of terrestrial weeds. Listed noxious weeds may be moved into or through the United States or interstate only under a written permit and under conditions that would not involve a danger of dissemination of the weeds. This action is necessary to prevent the artificial spread of noxious weeds into noninfested areas of the United States. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Nov 23 18:20:27 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041122172716.010fbd00@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: That Outlaw! Homeria. Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:30:24 -0800 As I understand it, Homeria was placed on the noxious weeds list because it is toxic to livestock and is considered a pest in South Africa for that reason. This is pretty silly, since Colchicum and Narcissus are also toxic to grazing animals, which seem to have enough sense to leave them alone and would no doubt avoid Homeria too. The federal list seems to have been put together somewhat haphazardly. For example, it contains a great many parasitic plants, including some that no one would ever think of growing, like dodder, and some that are almost impossible to cultivate. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From dkramb@badbear.com Mon Nov 22 20:59:04 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20041122205753.01b84bd8@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: North American Clivia Society Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:59:04 -0500 At 10:20 PM 11/20/2004, you wrote: >The North American Clivia Society is currently conducting a Clivia Auction >to support the 3rd International Huntington Clivia Symposium & Show to be >held Marc 26th and 27th, 2005. > >Please visit the following site for more information, > . > > >Tom Wells Are there any follow-up auctions for us poor people? :-) I am impressed these plants are going so well! Unfortunately it's way outta my league already. I plan to check back closer to the deadline just to see how much these babies really go for. Wow! Dennis in Cincinnati From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Nov 22 21:33:06 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Cryptostephanus DNA Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:31:55 -0600 >All had nearly the same value 44.6 picogram DNA per nucleus. >However a ""typical but large leaved white flowering form of J >Waddick had 36.4 pg This suggests that it a = hybrid b.= a new species. Dear All; I do not know the karyotype or chromosome number of Cryptostephanus. I was wondering if the typical form is a natural tetraploid and my odd plant might be a triploid. The ratio of DNA (44.6 versus 36.4) is close enough to suggest that. Does anyone know the ploidy of this species? Another odd thing about this 'off reading' is that the plant in question is considerably larger in stature than my 'pink form' or another typical white seedling. I'd think a tetraploid might be huskier than a triploid, not the opposite seen here. What might be happening here? Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick Near KCI Airport Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From mysticgardn@yahoo.com Tue Nov 23 02:00:59 2004 Message-Id: <20041123070058.32114.qmail@web40501.mail.yahoo.com> From: Ann Marie Subject: Membership Directory Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:00:58 -0800 (PST) I received mine today. thanks Ann Marie Cathy Craig wrote:Hello all, The PBS Membership Directory was mailed to all members yesterday 11/18. US directories went out first class, w/o envelope, Int'l members went out Air Mail in an envelope. Please watch for it in your mail and please report any errors to our membership director: Patty Colville - Pat.Colville@JHResearchUSA.com Thanks, everyone! Cathy Craig EA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Ann Marie So. California, San Gabriel Valley, Zone 21 (Sunset Western Garden book) , influenced by both marine and interior air(Santa Ana winds). This makes it perfect for Citrus trees and most So African plants. I collect belladonnas, oxalis, criniums, amaryllis, palms, epiphyllums, succulents and other south african bulbs. For home and garden sculptures go to http://www.rjunkdrawer.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free! From buj.joschko@freenet.de Tue Nov 23 04:46:35 2004 Message-Id: From: "Hans und Babs Joschko" Subject: AW: [pbs] That Outlaw! Homeria. Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:46:43 +0100 Hi Plantfriends , First I like to say thank you to all how helps me to find Homeria , and thanks for the information and advices for cultivation . Now I'm a bit shoked about the law in the USA , that this plants are classificated us weed - and if you have this you must destroy this plants - what a crazy world . We have here in Germany not such law , exept if you have Cannabis plants or Papaver for the production of Heroin . I suggest all plantfriend in the USA to make no labels on this plants - or give these plants a other name who is not a problem . With best wishes Hans From dejager@bulbargence.com Tue Nov 23 05:13:42 2004 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Nerine x Lycoris hybrids . . . ? Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 11:14:31 +0100 Dave, Last week I saw in Holland a hybrid (made in the UK) between Nerine bowdenii and Lycoris aurea. The result was: leaves, growth pattern and flowering time much like the Nerine; the flower form was exactly like those in the Lycoris subgenus Lycoris (L aurea; traubii,radiata etc) but the colour was a surprising pale purple. A pity that the yellow colour gene (absent in Nerine) was not evident. Kind regards le 21/11/04 4:11, DaveKarn@aol.com à DaveKarn@aol.com a écrit : > that prompts me to ask if Nerine and Lycoris are close enough that > crosses between the two genera are possible . . . certainly the flowers are > similar, as are the growth patterns. Lauw de Jager http://www.bulbargence.com South of France (zone 8 Olivier) From mrgoldbear@yahoo.com Tue Nov 23 05:54:46 2004 Message-Id: <20041123105445.35030.qmail@web52109.mail.yahoo.com> From: David Sneddon Subject: SEARCH of PBS Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 02:54:45 -0800 (PST) Howdy, From Goggle you can also force a search of the site. Paste this into a web search and have a try >> site:lists.ibiblio.org lycoris November Regards, David. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Discover all that’s new in My Yahoo! From Zonneveld@rulbim.leidenuniv.nl Tue Nov 23 06:58:52 2004 Message-Id: <41A33401.2393.CBD447@localhost> From: "zonneveld" Subject: Suggestions for atypical crypto Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:58:41 +0100 Excuses for the fact thast the message was send four times. Two suggestions have come forth to explain the anomalous value for the large cryptostephanus vansonii Firsts Waddick suggested: ""all plants in culture are tetraploid. Two objections: the number in Cryptostephanus vansonii has been counted as 2n=24 as Clivia has 2n = 22 this seems a diploid. Further if 44.6 is a tetraploid a triploid would be 33.5 not 36.4 pg. Morevover it was grown from seed. G Duncan suggested that it might be a cross with Clivia Apart from the white flowers the DNA does not fir either. Excluding Clivia mirablis, the lowest Clivia value is 34.7 for C nobilis ( C miniata has 39.2) If the plant with 36. 4 is the hybrid the value for the other parent ( with one parent 44.6) would be 28.2 pg not 34.7. So I await other suggestions Ben J.M.Zonneveld Institute of Biology,Leiden University, Clusius lab Wassenaarse weg 64, 2333 AL Leiden, The Netherlands Zonneveld@rulbim.Leidenuniv.NL Fax: +31-71-5274999. min temp -10C (15F) From eagle85@flash.net Tue Nov 23 12:48:45 2004 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Membership Directory Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:45:48 -0800 Cathy CraigDoug Westfall cathycraigea@hotmail.com11111Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Hello all, > > The PBS Membership Directory was mailed to all members yesterday 11/18. US > directories went out first class, w/o envelope, Int'l members went out Air > Mail in an envelope. > > Please watch for it in your mail and please report any errors to our > membership director: Patty Colville - Pat.Colville@JHResearchUSA.com > > Thanks, everyone! > > Cathy Craig EA > Mine arrived today. Many thanks. Doug From lizwat@earthlink.net Tue Nov 23 12:36:16 2004 Message-Id: <41A375A7.1080308@earthlink.net> From: Liz Waterman Subject: SEARCH of PBS Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:38:47 -0800 Thank you. That was incredibly speedy. Liz W David Sneddon wrote: >Howdy, > >From Goggle you can also force a search of the site. > >Paste this into a web search and have a try >> > >site:lists.ibiblio.org lycoris November > >Regards, >David. > > > > > From msittner@mcn.org Tue Nov 23 13:45:57 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041123101156.01eb3bb0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Why wont my seedlings return ? Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:26:25 -0800 Dear Rob, I know you have had a couple of responses on other forums with suggestions, but none on ours. I hope Bill Dijk who has been very busy will comment since he seems successful in growing a lot of South African amaryllids from seed as well. My experience is very limited at this stage and only Cyrtanthus and Nerine have I gotten to bloom stage (and some of those are summer rainfall). I lose a lot of all the things I grow that first year so don't feel like I'm in any position to offer advice. The number that return the second year is often less. It seems like if you can get them through the second year your chances are a lot better. I start most of my South African winter rainfall seeds in my greenhouse because we have excessive rain during the months when they would have just germinated. It provides a little extra heat during the day and having them in one place reminds me to water them with dilute fertilizer so they will grow faster and be able to survive dormancy better. Usually the Amaryllids have kept growing through the first year like you describe your summer rainfall species. I wonder if light is another factor. I always marvel at how fast Sheila and Mary from Western Australia can get things to bloom from seed and someone suggested their high level of light is a help. It sounds like you have had a lot of success from your reports. Which things have not come back and is it a question of their just not coming up (my ongoing experience with Ornithogalum dubium) or not being there the next year? Mary Sue From jimmckenney@starpower.net Tue Nov 23 13:30:54 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20041123133010.00a64c00@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Galanthus elwesii in bloom! Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:30:10 -0500 The first Galanthus elwesii have appeared on the front lawn, a bit earlier than usual. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where we have had a killing freeze yet gardens are still full of interesting flowering odds and ends. From buj.joschko@freenet.de Tue Nov 23 13:47:00 2004 Message-Id: From: "Hans und Babs Joschko" Subject: AW: [pbs] Galanthus elwesii in bloom! Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:47:07 +0100 Hi Jim , Here in my garden I have Galanthus flowering since September - first came G. regina -olgae and G.peshmenii , since the first of November flowering here G. elwesii - my plants comes from England - received as "very early flowering form " , now also flowers G. corcyrensis . Greetings from south west Germany Hans -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]Im Auftrag von Jim McKenney Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. November 2004 19:30 An: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Betreff: [pbs] Galanthus elwesii in bloom! The first Galanthus elwesii have appeared on the front lawn, a bit earlier than usual. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where we have had a killing freeze yet gardens are still full of interesting flowering odds and ends. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From btankers@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org Tue Nov 23 13:54:56 2004 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A0AA372@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: That Outlaw! Homeria. Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:56:34 -0600 I was surprised to find it listed as a Noxious Weed in Minnesota, Massachuesetts, Connecticut and Vermont. Is it really hardy enough to escape cultivation and survive in undisturbed natural areas in these states? Like others, I could find where it is listed as invasive on the WWW but I couldn't find out what habitats/locations within each of these states it had colonized. I would be interested in the original sightings data. FYI, North Carolina State University is still promoting it as an attractive ornamental on the WWW and a number of e-commerce sites still offer it for sale - something the USDA has stated they are going to crack down on. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of ConroeJoe@aol.com Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 5:47 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] That Outlaw! Homeria. Hi, Some folks wrote to me about Homeria, and the subject of its weediness came up. I agreed to check with USDA lists. I was surprised to find Homeria listed as a noxious weed for the USA. This means that, if you live in the USA, you (me too) cannot import it from another country (not plants, not corms, not seeds). It also means that the plant cannot be mailed or distributed across state lines in the USA. Some states also outlaw Homeria, I don't have a comprehensive list of those states. But in the past most states that list a plant as a noxious weed also outlaw any type of ownership for gardening purposes. For sure Alabama and North Carolina have listed Homeria as a noxious weed. The USDA outlawed "Homeria spp., cape tulip," which I interpret to mean the whole genus (no matter if you now call such plants Moraea). But, I don't think the whole genus of Moraea is outlawed--only those plants once known as Homeria. Very confusing! So, I have my single potted plant in Texas. I cannot send seeds to another state, and I cannot receive seeds from another state. In order to avoid Homeria collina from becoming the "plant that ate Texas," I will watch mine carefully and prevent any seeds from being released. Under the law, as I understand it, I can send the seeds to people in Texas, but I don't think I will. I wonder if anyone in Texas has seeds of the yellow-flowered type, or some of the pretty bi-colors. Oh well. I've pasted in some text from the Federal Register, year 2000, just below. It is the summary of the action listing Homeria as a noxious weed. Cordially, Joe Shaw ------------------------------------------------ Federal Register: May 25, 2000 (Volume 65, Number 102) Homeria spp.  added to Weed List SUMMARY: We are amending the noxious weeds regulations by adding Homeria spp. (cape tulips) to the list of terrestrial weeds. Listed noxious weeds may be moved into or through the United States or interstate only under a written permit and under conditions that would not involve a danger of dissemination of the weeds. This action is necessary to prevent the artificial spread of noxious weeds into noninfested areas of the United States. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Tue Nov 23 14:26:41 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041123105704.01eabac0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: That Outlaw! Homeria. Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 11:24:22 -0800 Dear All, >I was surprised to find it listed as a Noxious Weed in Minnesota, >Massachuesetts, Connecticut and Vermont. Is it really hardy enough to >escape cultivation and survive in undisturbed natural areas in these states? No. I seriously doubt it would survive the cold in most of those places. I gave some to my parents in West Texas. Some years it survived and went on to bloom, but many years the cold temperatures wiped it out before it bloomed. After this happened a couple of times, it was gone much to my mother's dismay as she really liked it. I suspect that the USDA is following the lead of Australia where it is a weed. Even in California, the state it is probably most likely to become a weed, it isn't there yet. As Diana says it does not reseed in all habitats. It did not reseed for me when I lived in Stockton either although each year more offsets were produced. But that was true of a lot of bulbs that I was growing. It does reseed for me in coastal Northern California if I don't watch it, but has not achieved pest status yet and is not in my neighbor's garden's either. Out walking where I live now I have seen in wild habitats Amaryllis belladonna, Watsonia meriana and others, Chasmanthe floribunda, Allium triquetrum, Sparaxis sp. Ixia sp., Romulea rosea, Zantedeschia aethiopica, Oxalis pes-caprae and Oxalis corniculata, Crocosmia xcrocosmiiflora. In my garden Freesia alba and Ipheion uniflorum spread faster than Moraea (Homeria) so it wouldn't surprise me to see them as well some day. Many of these "weeds" are not replacing native plants, just appearing with them. The ones here that can take over are the mentioned Allium, Watsonia, Oxalis, and Crocosmia. The Jepson Manual lists all the plants of California includes naturalized plants in its listings. All of those I mentioned above are there. There is no listing under Homeria or Moraea. The USDA is over reaching in this case. Mary Sue From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Nov 23 15:20:51 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: That Outlaw! Homeria. Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:20:48 -0800 >Out walking where I live now I have seen in wild habitats Amaryllis >belladonna, Watsonia meriana and others, Chasmanthe floribunda, >Allium triquetrum, Sparaxis sp. Ixia sp., Romulea rosea, >Zantedeschia aethiopica, Oxalis pes-caprae and Oxalis corniculata, >Crocosmia xcrocosmiiflora. Are these spreading naturally or with human help? It's hard to understand how some seeds can spread unless they are "shooters" like Amaryllis or Broom, air floaters like fireweed, or aquatic floaters like coconuts and water iris. People dig up plants, like Crocosmia or bluebells, that have spread too much in their gardens and throw them onto a nearby area that no one owns. It may be the last empty lot in a suburban area, or across the road in a rural one. Sometimes the bulbs are not deliberately thrown away, but not noticed among the weeds being thrown onto the waste area. There are also people who want to beautify the countryside and toss seeds and bulbs. I heard of a man who was dying and had his daughter drive him around so he could toss foxglove seeds. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Tue Nov 23 16:40:41 2004 Message-Id: From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: That Outlaw! Homeria. Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:40:37 EST http://www.ceris.purdue.edu/napis/pests/weeds/freg/fr000525.txt "APHIS has determined that several areas of the United States provide ideal climate conditions for the establishment of Homeria spp. As stated in our proposed rule, we believe there is a significant risk associated with the importation of seeds of Homeria spp. as contaminants of shipments of Australian oats or other varieties of seeds. We believe that such shipments provide a direct path for establishment of Homeria spp. in U.S. pastures, which could result in the poisoning of livestock, reduction of carrying capacity, and substantial losses for U.S. farmers. Further, our review of the scientific literature has revealed that species of the genus Homeria have escaped from garden plantings in Australia and New Zealand into surrounding areas. According to the literature, dispersal occurs by the movement of corms and seeds, aided by humans, animals, wind, and water. When plants dry out at the end of the growing season, they may break off at the soil level, with seed heads attached. The dry plants then may blow around the ground surface, scattering seeds." Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA www.therapyshapes.com USDA Zone 5 Giant Schnauzer Rescue From eob@nu-world.com Tue Nov 23 21:05:19 2004 Message-Id: From: "Ernie O'Byrne" Subject: Cyclamen coum in bloom Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:05:15 -0800 I noticed the first Cyclamen coum in bloom a couple of days ago, too. Ernie O'Byrne Northwest Garden Nursery 86813 Central Road Eugene, ORegon 97402 USA USDA Z. 7B -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Jim McKenney Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:30 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Galanthus elwesii in bloom! The first Galanthus elwesii have appeared on the front lawn, a bit earlier than usual. Jim McKenney From eagle85@flash.net Wed Nov 24 00:13:37 2004 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Why wont my seedlings return ? Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:10:56 -0800 Mary Sue IttnerDoug Westfall msittner@mcn.org11111Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > It sounds like you have had a lot of success from your reports. Which > things have not come back ^^^^^^ That is the question I ask. If you are dealing with Scadoxus or Haemanthus, I might have some suggestions. Doug From roberth6@mac.com Wed Nov 24 05:24:41 2004 Message-Id: From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Why wont my seedlings return ? Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:22:19 +1100 Hi Mary Sue and Doug, > Which things have not come back and is it a question of their just > not coming up (my ongoing experience with Ornithogalum dubium) or not > being there the next year? Its the problem of them not coming up - in each case there are bulbs present which havent produced leaves , in some cases quite a nice size. The species germinated in 2003 which havent returned this year are Brunsvigias namaquana (sigh!!) , litoralis and striata (both as striata and as minor) , Haemanthus barkerae and sanguineus , Hessea breviflora and pilosula and Strumaria watermeyeri. These all still have small bulbs with active roots. There are also several more Hessea and Strumaria which I havent looked at as yet . I also repotted an overcrowded seedling pot of Albuca namaquensis last summer , which had 20 or so nice bulbs and these have sulked through winter / spring. Cheers, Rob From piabinha@yahoo.com Wed Nov 24 16:36:06 2004 Message-Id: <20041124213605.70949.qmail@web51903.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: embryo rescue? Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:36:05 -0800 (PST) what the heck is an embryo rescue? i have read before that people have crossed turkeys with chickens. that sounds like a pretty wide cross to me. not sure if that's true, and i have never seen or heard of such mixed offspring. tsuh yang --- "J.E. Shields" wrote: > Hi Dave and all, > > According to Alan Meerow's DNA studies, the Nerines > are embedded in the > ancient African clade while Lycoris are part of the > Eurasian clade, which > also includes Narcissus and Galanthus. > > Nerine is most closely related to Crinum, Amaryllis, > and Brunsvigia, e.g. > bigenerics like Amarine. > > Now I have seen plants 30 or so years ago, produced > by Ms. Margot Williams > at USDA using embryo rescue, the reperesented such > wide crossdes aas you > suggest. One was and African Crinum X Hippeastrum. > If that cross can be > made to work, Nerine X Lycoris could too, I'd bet. > But you would probably > have to be willing to use embryo rescue. Go for it! > > The Crinum X Hippeastrum was a weirdly distorted > plant. It looked like the > genes were not at all happy to be sharing the same > cell nucleus. > > Regards, > Jim Shields > in central Indiana __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jshields@indy.net Wed Nov 24 17:42:42 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041124172802.021c5098@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: embryo rescue? Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:42:39 -0500 Hi Folks, At 01:36 PM 11/24/2004 -0800, you wrote: >what the heck is an embryo rescue? >tsuh yang Sometimes in crosses, if the genetics of the two parents are not compatible enough, an embryo will form (ovule in the flower's ovary + pollen gives an embryo) but no endosperm. Also, because of insufficient hormone production by the fertilized ovary, the fruit eventually aborts. However, sometimes, if one removes the embryonic seed from the flower ovary -- would-be seed pod -- and if one then places the embryo on plant tissue culture nutrient medium, the embryo will still develop into a plant. In the wide crosses like Nerine X Lycoris and Crinum X Hippeastrum, it would probably always be necessary to use embryo rescue tissue culture to get the hybrid plant. Especially in the world of Clivia, many wide crosses have been attempted using Clivia as the seed or berry parent. Success has often been claimed, but these have never so far as I know been carried out rigorously enough to preclude the possibility of accidental self-pollination of the Clivia from its own pollen or that of another Clivia in the neighborhood. Clivia pollen is very light and fluffy. If you walk briskly past a blooming clivia, there will be a faint cloud of Clivia pollen blown off into the surrounding air by your wake. The resulting "hybrids" almost always turn out to look just like an ordinary Clivia. So successfully making a very wide intergeneric hybrid is not a simple thing to do. I hope this helps explain the process and why it is used. Jim Shields in central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jimmckenney@starpower.net Wed Nov 24 18:08:13 2004 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20041124180754.00a6a4d0@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: embryo rescue? Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:07:54 -0500 tsuh yang asked: >what the heck is an embryo rescue? And Jim Shields replied (in part): >So successfully making a very wide intergeneric hybrid is not a simple >thing to do. No argument there, but embryo culture itself is not beyond the skills (or learning curve) of most enthusiasts. In the lily world (genus Lilium) embryo culture has received lots of attention from amateurs during the last twenty years. There have been workshops, lots of published instructions, everything you need to know to crank up the pressure cooker, really clean the kitchen work surfaces, excise embryos and morph into lab mode. In the lily world, embryo culture is primarily used to facilitate wide or interdivisional crosses. Since the process is based on tissue culture techniques, you also learn how to multiply clonal material, too. These processes have revolutionized lily hybrids: coming soon to a garden center near you - super lilies, bigger and easier than anything most gardeners have ever seen. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where all I need is yet another way to acquire more plants. From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Nov 24 18:16:36 2004 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Clivia roots and age to flower Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:16:30 -0800 I am transplanting clivia seedlings from seed sown last year. I am surprised at the roots - they are thick and don't seem to have any fibrous roots at all. Is this the way they are supposed to be? About how many years does it take for a seedling to flower? -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From ConroeJoe@aol.com Wed Nov 24 18:32:45 2004 Message-Id: <6d.390e3ac8.2ed67416@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 22, Issue 26 Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:32:38 EST In a message dated 11/24/2004 11:03:05 AM Central Standard Time, Mary Sue wrote: > The Jepson Manual lists all the plants of California includes naturalized > plants in its listings. Hi, Sometimes members of this list provide information that reminds me of my years in California. The Jepson Prairie is 10-15 miles south of Dixon, CA (between Vacaville and Davis). I don't know how many bulb-type plants grow there but do recall seeing Brodiaea coronaria years ago. A species of Fritillaria occurs in the general area. I don't think either of these species actually grows in the pools; probably they grow on the nearby prairie. The preserve holds some of the finest vernal pools left in California; these are shallow basins 8-30 inches deep that fill with water in the cool rainy months. The pools are a unique habitat for plants and animals--and sometimes provide exceptional wildflower displays. The nearby land is level and water does not collect; thus the pools are special and rare. As the pools dry in spring wildflowers grow in the basins--special wildflowers adapted to the seasonal wetland provided by the pools. I'm not sure how the pools originated, but many are gone due to plowing and other efforts to facilitate agriculture. Without the pools a number of species might become much more rare. Conroe Joe From ConroeJoe@aol.com Wed Nov 24 18:33:36 2004 Message-Id: <7a.67385d46.2ed6744e@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Web site for Jepson Prairie Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:33:34 EST Hi Gang, Here is a nice link to a site dedicated to Jepson Prairie. LINK: http://www.vernalpools.org/JepsonSchedule.htm C. Joe From ConroeJoe@aol.com Wed Nov 24 18:49:13 2004 Message-Id: <12e.51cb671d.2ed677f1@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Still more about Homeria Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:49:05 EST Hi, If you live and Texas and have some Homeria seed or corms to trade, let me know. I have the typical H. collina, but would enjoy trying some other types. I might as well try them while they are still legal in this state. I think that Homeria collina is also known as Moraea collina. Cordially, Joe From ConroeJoe@aol.com Wed Nov 24 18:59:37 2004 Message-Id: <1e9.2fac60f4.2ed67a66@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: An answer, sort of Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:59:34 EST Hi, Last summer I posted a question or two about red-leaved Crinum. Someone else wrote in and asked 2 questions that I repeat here. 1. "I wonder how many red-leafed Crinum there are" 2. Are "they all C. asiaticum/Procerum"? I've finally found out "sort of" answers to these questions, my information comes from Marcelle Sheppard. Marcelle reports that she has seedlings resulting from a cross of red-leaved Crinum x a green-leaved Crinum, and that at least some of the progeny have red leaves. She also reports that her crosses were not strictly C. asiaticum procerum types, but included regular C. asiaticum. So this is what I surmise: 1. There can be many types of red-leaved Crinum but perhaps there are only a few that exist in the collections of breeders. 2. The red-leaved trait can extend beyond C. asiaticum procerum-types, but perhaps has not moved far. This is nice to think about; I have a C. x powellii that has splendid foliage but truly horrible flowers (lots of little, wrinkled, quick-to-die flowers). It would be all the more splendid of foliage if the leaves were red or burgundy. Conroe Joe Rain is over, cool tonight, warmer and sunnier conditions predicted for the next few days. No frost yet. From jshields@indy.net Wed Nov 24 19:12:19 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041124190530.021dcc18@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Clivia roots and age to flower Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:12:16 -0500 Diana, Your clivia seedlings are OK. Clivia roots are covered with something like the velum on orchid roots. Go to CliviaNet at: http://www.clivianet.org/ and follow links through "Cultivation" to Loukie Viljoen's tutorials on starting Clivia from seed, at: http://www.clivianet.org/LoukieViljoen.html where you will find lots of images of clivia seeds starting to turn into seedlings. Clivias can take from 3 to 9 years to reach flowering from seed, depending on the species or strain you are growing. Clivia nobilis is probably the slowest growing species. The Belgians are pushing the Belgian Hybrids strain to flowering in just 18 - 24 months. This is being done through a combination of selective breeding and cultural methods. Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana, where the new Clivia greenhouse is at least framed in steel. At 03:16 PM 11/24/2004 -0800, you wrote: >I am transplanting clivia seedlings from seed sown last year. I am >surprised at the roots - they are thick and don't seem to have any fibrous >roots at all. Is this the way they are supposed to be? > >About how many years does it take for a seedling to flower? > >-- >Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From Roth@ukzn.ac.za Fri Nov 26 03:25:26 2004 Message-Id: From: "Rogan Roth" Subject: New Images Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:25:02 +0200 Bulb lovers, It is summer in the southern hemishere and many things are flowering at the moment. Below are links to several images I have added to the wiki in recent weeks. The plants in question are Crinum boophanoides, Tigridia durangense and Dioscorea sylvatica var. paniculata. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Crinum http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tigridia http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Dioscorea Rogan Roth KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Please find our disclaimer at http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer -------------------------------------------------------------------- <<<>>> From ConroeJoe@aol.com Fri Nov 26 19:17:22 2004 Message-Id: <158.44bfcae6.2ed9218d@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Grass Aloes are "sort of" bulbs Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:17:17 EST Hi, Some aloes are deciduous in the wild, growing in summer rainfall areas and dying back in winter. They are typically hardy (as aloes go) for 2 reasons: 1) the top dies back and the root behaves like a bulb, and 2) they typically come from higher elevations. I am growing several species of these "grass" aloes and have found the, so far, to be easy and durable. They are not "bulbs," but because they die back to a perennial rootstock; because they leaf out in warm weather and have such wonderful flowers, I think of them as bulb-type garden plants. I purchased seed from Silverhill seed about 2 years ago of A. cooperi, A. ecklonis, and A. myriacantha (apparently these are the more easily found species). All of them should be hardy down to 15 F, and some are reported hardy in to zone 7. I'm not sure what is a grass aloe and what is a bulb aloe, but they are similar; it is my understanding that both are deciduous-but I'm not sure. I think that bulb aloes actually make a more pronounced storage organ. The leaves of grass aloes are succulent. Here, near Houston, TX, the 3 species from Silverhill germinated easily indoors under lights (room temperature), and grew easily. They really enjoyed our hot Texas summer, and the rain-never seeming to get too much water or sun. They responded well to fertilizer and really seemed to enjoy it when I moved them from seedling pots/media into a 90% mineral mix (30% lava rock, 30% perlite, 30% coarse sand, 10% humus). They are about 20-24 months old now and I've potted them up several times. I plan to keep to or 3 of each type and find homes for the extras. Last year I protected them from rain during winter; they never got bone dry due to splash and spray but the leaves mostly died down. This year I will let them stay out in the garden, in 1- or 2-gallon containers over the winter. Perhaps if we have mild frosts again they will remain evergreen or perhaps they will die down. They are such strong growers that I'm hopeful some will bloom next summer. If nothing else I want to try their pollen on the other aloes that tolerate Houston (e.g., maculata, arborescens, striatula). LINK: Aloe cooperi page at Plantzafrica.com http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantab/aloecooperi.htm LINK: Aloe striatula page at Plant Delights Nursery http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Current/Detail/04037.html Oh yeah, I sure would like to find seed of more species of grass (or bulb) aloes; if you have some to sell or trade please contact me. Cordially, Conroe Joe ConroeJoe@aol.com 71 F high today in Conroe, TX: 55 F predicted for overnight low humidity: 85% at 6:00 p.m. From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Nov 26 23:44:55 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Morea polystachya - hardiness continued Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:45:53 -0600 Dear All; My first note this season about this species was on Oct 10. Now about 7 weeks later; another report. This fall has been exceptionally mild, but earlier in the week snowfall dropped nearly 10 inches and totally buried this Morea. Temps only dropped to about the mid 20s (F- 03 -4C). Warmer weather has melted all the snow and the Morea is unphased. Open flowers are mostly mashed, but unopened buds look ready to open in a day or two. It has bloom with 1,2 or 3 flowers at a time almost continuously for the past 7 weeks. Inches away are plants of Hippeastrum xjohnsonii and they all have severe frost damage to the foliage while foliage of the Morea is untouched. Continued amazement and enjoying this long blooming and stalwart plant. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick Near KCI Airport Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From dejager@bulbargence.com Sat Nov 27 02:26:00 2004 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Morea polystachya - hardiness continued Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:27:10 +0100 Dear Jim, May I join your delight as I have same experience here. Now we have a raher mild autumn/winter. But in the passed years even frost down to -6-8 °( 20-25? °F) does not affect the foliage and seed capsules. When the cold period has passed new buds open again. Seed is generally not set during the colder periods and but the autumn flowering capsules can be sown during the spring Kind regards le 27/11/04 1:45, James Waddick à jwaddick@kc.rr.com a écrit : > This fall has been exceptionally mild, but earlier in the > week snowfall dropped nearly 10 inches and totally buried this Morea. > Temps only dropped to about the mid 20s (F- 03 -4C). Warmer weather > has melted all the snow and the Morea is unphased. Open flowers are > mostly mashed, but unopened buds look ready to open in a day or two. > It has bloom with 1,2 or 3 flowers at a time almost continuously for > the past 7 weeks. Inches away are plants of Hippeastrum xjohnsonii > and they all have severe frost damage to the foliage while foliage of > the Morea is untouched. Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence Mas d'Argence 30300 Fourques France (south of France zone 8) tel 31(0)466 016 519 fax 0466 011 245 http://www.bulbargence.com From crinum@libero.it Sat Nov 27 05:34:51 2004 Message-Id: From: "crinum@libero.it" Subject: Grass Aloes are "sort of" bulbs Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:34:49 +0100 If you interest, next year will be published a book about Grass Aloe by Charles Craib (the author of Geophytic Pelargoniums), Umdaus Press. You can book it by the web pages of Pen Rock. My best regards. Alberto Grossi Italy --------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:17:17 EST Subject : [pbs] Grass Aloes are "sort of" bulbs > Hi, > > Some aloes are deciduous in the wild, growing in summer rainfall areas and > dying back in winter. They are typically hardy (as aloes go) for 2 reasons: 1) > the top dies back and the root behaves like a bulb, and 2) they typically > come from higher elevations. > > I am growing several species of these "grass" aloes and have found the, so > far, to be easy and durable. They are not "bulbs," but because they die back to > a perennial rootstock; because they leaf out in warm weather and have such > wonderful flowers, I think of them as bulb-type garden plants. > > I purchased seed from Silverhill seed about 2 years ago of A. cooperi, A. > ecklonis, and A. myriacantha (apparently these are the more easily found > species). All of them should be hardy down to 15 F, and some are reported hardy in to > zone 7. > > I'm not sure what is a grass aloe and what is a bulb aloe, but they are > similar; it is my understanding that both are deciduous-but I'm not sure. I think > that bulb aloes actually make a more pronounced storage organ. The leaves of > grass aloes are succulent. Here, near Houston, TX, the 3 species from > Silverhill germinated easily indoors under lights (room temperature), and grew > easily. They really enjoyed our hot Texas summer, and the rain-never seeming to get > too much water or sun. They responded well to fertilizer and really seemed > to enjoy it when I moved them from seedling pots/media into a 90% mineral mix > (30% lava rock, 30% perlite, 30% coarse sand, 10% humus). They are about 20-24 > months old now and I've potted them up several times. I plan to keep to or 3 > of each type and find homes for the extras. > > Last year I protected them from rain during winter; they never got bone dry > due to splash and spray but the leaves mostly died down. This year I will let > them stay out in the garden, in 1- or 2-gallon containers over the winter. > Perhaps if we have mild frosts again they will remain evergreen or perhaps they > will die down. > > They are such strong growers that I'm hopeful some will bloom next summer. > If nothing else I want to try their pollen on the other aloes that tolerate > Houston (e.g., maculata, arborescens, striatula). > > LINK: Aloe cooperi page at Plantzafrica.com > http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantab/aloecooperi.htm > > LINK: Aloe striatula page at Plant Delights Nursery > http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Current/Detail/04037.html > > Oh yeah, I sure would like to find seed of more species of grass (or bulb) > aloes; if you have some to sell or trade please contact me. > > > Cordially, > > Conroe Joe > ConroeJoe@aol.com > 71 F high today in Conroe, TX: 55 F predicted for overnight low > humidity: 85% at 6:00 p.m. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Alberto Grossi Italy ____________________________________________________________ Libero ADSL: navighi gratis a 1.2 Mega, senza canone e costi di attivazione. Abbonati subito su http://www.libero.it From jshields104@insightbb.com Sat Nov 27 08:07:44 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041127080110.00b07900@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Grass Aloes Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:07:39 -0500 Hi all, I would love to find an Aloe hardy in my cold climate. I haven't gotten to the grass Aloes yet, but it looks as if I should. The book, "Guide to the Aloes of South Africa" by Ben-Erik van Wyk and Gideon Smith, pub. by Briza Publications (Pretorioa), 2nd edition, 2003, has a chapter on Grass Aloes. The species listed and illustrated. There appear to be about 24 species. Which species have folks in this list tried? How hardy are they? How hard to grow? Jim Shields in central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From SheriAnnRicherson@exoticgardening.com Sat Nov 27 08:11:52 2004 Message-Id: <20041127131151.0D7564C005@happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu> From: "Sheri Ann Richerson" Subject: Grass Aloes Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:11:53 -0500 Jim and all - I second the vote on the hardy aloes! I have not trialed any of them yet. I was able to move in August to an acre and a half of land with a house and a huge barn that I am going to turn into a botanical garden. I did try a Crinium lily and set it up in a raised bed right against the foundation of my greenhouse last winter and it did not make it. I am very interested in learning about some of the different plants and bulbs that have been trialed in zone 5 and successfully over wintered. Sheri Make a difference! Plant-A-Row For The Hungry Ask me how! Region III Plant-A-Row For The Hungry Representative http://www.gwaa.org/Par/index.html Do you like gardening? Don't miss the ultimate website for the truly obsessed plant-a-holic! http://www.exoticgardening.com Do you need a freelance writer, editor, photographer or speaker? Contact Sheri Ann Richerson (765) 664-6916 SheriAnnRicherson@exoticgardening.com http://sheriannricherson.exoticgardening.com From jshields@indy.net Sat Nov 27 08:36:22 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041127083001.02b9c348@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Hardy Bulbs. Was: [pbs] Grass Aloes Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:36:20 -0500 Sheri and all, Micro-environment seems to make a huge difference with marginally hardy bulbs. I mulch my Crinum bulbs that overwinter outdoors in the ground. Gladiolus survive in one spot but not in another. In a row of bulbs of a single clone of Nerine bowdenii, 2/3 die and the rest hang on. It is a bit mysterious. I am trying to get some of my Crinums tested in other gardens besides mine around here. I should have a better idea of their hardiness as time goes on. Jim Shields At 08:11 AM 11/27/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Jim and all - > >I second the vote on the hardy aloes! I have not trialed any of them yet. I >was able to move in August to an acre and a half of land with a house and a >huge barn that I am going to turn into a botanical garden. > >I did try a Crinium lily and set it up in a raised bed right against the >foundation of my greenhouse last winter and it did not make it. > >I am very interested in learning about some of the different plants and >bulbs that have been trialed in zone 5 and successfully over wintered. > >Sheri ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From dkramb@badbear.com Sat Nov 27 08:50:07 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20041127084859.01bb9ec0@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Rigidella orthantha, was Re: [pbs] Morea polystachya - hardiness continued Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:50:06 -0500 I've had very similar weather to you... except for the snow... (no snow yet here in Cincinnati)... and I'm surprised that my Rigidella orthantha is unfazed by the cold weather thus far. No sign of bloom, mind you, but the foliage continues to grow. Dennis in Cincinnati At 07:45 PM 11/26/2004, you wrote: >Dear All; > My first note this season about this species was on Oct 10. Now > about 7 weeks later; another report. > This fall has been exceptionally mild, but earlier in the week > snowfall dropped nearly 10 inches and totally buried this Morea. Temps > only dropped to about the mid 20s (F- 03 -4C). Warmer weather has melted > all the snow and the Morea is unphased. Open flowers are mostly mashed, > but unopened buds look ready to open in a day or two. It has bloom with > 1,2 or 3 flowers at a time almost continuously for the past 7 weeks. > Inches away are plants of Hippeastrum xjohnsonii and they all have severe > frost damage to the foliage while foliage of the Morea is untouched. > > Continued amazement and enjoying this long blooming and stalwart > plant. > > Jim W. >-- >Dr. James W. Waddick >Near KCI Airport >Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 >USA >Ph. 816-746-1949 >Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From dkramb@badbear.com Sat Nov 27 08:52:17 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20041127085047.01b99ec0@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: New Images Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:52:17 -0500 At 03:25 AM 11/26/2004, you wrote: >Bulb lovers, > >It is summer in the southern hemishere and many things are flowering at >the moment. Below are links to several images I have added to the wiki >in recent weeks. The plants in question are Crinum boophanoides, >Tigridia durangense and Dioscorea sylvatica var. paniculata. Wow! I loved the Tigridia photo. This group has the best photographers -- it makes my attempts at garden photography seem feeble. Keep those pictures coming, we're freezing up here in the north. :-) Dennis in Cincinnati From dkramb@badbear.com Sat Nov 27 09:02:19 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20041127085709.01bf8100@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Iris cretensis Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 09:02:19 -0500 It's not a pacific coast bulb by any stretch of the imagination but my Iris cretensis (aka: Iris unguicularis ssp. cretensis) has been blooming off & on for the last month. Last winter we had a warm spell in January and it bloomed then too. Normally this flower can be expected to bloom in March... but give it a few days of temps in the 50's (sorry, don't know what that is in Celsius) and it will try to bloom any time during the winter. Dennis in Cincinnati (whose garden is void of blooms, except for Iris cretensis) From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Nov 27 11:37:38 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: BACK UP - Grass Aloes are "sort of" bulbs - NOT Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:18:55 -0600 >Some aloes are deciduous in the wild, growing in summer rainfall areas and >dying back in winter. They are typically hardy (as aloes go) for 2 >reasons: 1) >the top dies back and the root behaves like a bulb, and 2) they typically >come from higher elevations. >... They are not "bulbs," but because they die back to >a perennial rootstock; because they leaf out in warm weather and have such >wonderful flowers, I think of them as bulb-type garden plants. Dear Joe and All; Hate to be a spoil sport, but... I had to refute comparing grass aloes to bulbs. As far as I know there are no bulbous Aloe. These are herbaceous perennials plain and simple. Don't really mind any discussions especially if any are really Zone 5/6 hardy, but these are not bulbs. Just a small reality check. Humbug season I suppose. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick Near KCI Airport Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Nov 27 11:37:41 2004 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Morea polystachya - hardiness continued Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:20:47 -0600 >May I join your delight as I have same experience here. ...frost down to -6-8 >°( 20-25? °F) does not affect the foliage and seed capsules. Dear Lauw; Wow Seed capsules. I have never had these before, but now hope I might see some before this mild spell plunges us down to the teens- still not in the forecast. Any other Morea face the cold as well for you? Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick Near KCI Airport Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jshields@indy.net Sat Nov 27 10:07:54 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041127095945.02ba6310@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Grass Aloes are "sort of" bulbs Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:07:52 -0500 Looking further into "Guide to the Aloes of South Africa" I note that there are a few "bulbous" Aloe. A. kniphofioides is one such, with red flowers; hardy to ca. -4°C/+25°F; it is one of the Grass Aloes. The others are A. modesta, a Grass Aloe with greenish-yellow flowers; and A. inconspicua, a Grass Aloe with green flowers. A. modesta can tolerate temperatures that dip below freezing, but A. inconspicua cannot. Thus demonstrating that Aloe are not off-topic for a bulb list to discuss! If you want a copy of this book, try Rod & Rachel Sanders' Silverhill Seeds & Books or the bookshop at Kirstenbosch National Botanic Garden in Cape Town. Both do mail-order sales and accept credit cards. More details in http://www.shieldsgardens.com/GLOVBulbs/SOURCES.html Jim Shields At 07:17 PM 11/26/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, > >Some aloes are deciduous in the wild, growing in summer rainfall areas and >dying back in winter. They are typically hardy (as aloes go) for 2 >reasons: 1) >the top dies back and the root behaves like a bulb, and 2) they typically >come from higher elevations. > >I am growing several species of these "grass" aloes and have found the, so >far, to be easy and durable. They are not "bulbs," but because they die >back to >a perennial rootstock; because they leaf out in warm weather and have such >wonderful flowers, I think of them as bulb-type garden plants. > >I purchased seed from Silverhill seed about 2 years ago of A. cooperi, A. >ecklonis, and A. myriacantha (apparently these are the more easily found >species). All of them should be hardy down to 15 F, and some are reported >hardy in to >zone 7. > >I'm not sure what is a grass aloe and what is a bulb aloe, but they are >similar; it is my understanding that both are deciduous-but I'm not >sure. I think >that bulb aloes actually make a more pronounced storage organ. The leaves of >grass aloes are succulent. Here, near Houston, TX, the 3 species from >Silverhill germinated easily indoors under lights (room temperature), and >grew >easily. They really enjoyed our hot Texas summer, and the rain-never >seeming to get >too much water or sun. They responded well to fertilizer and really seemed >to enjoy it when I moved them from seedling pots/media into a 90% mineral mix >(30% lava rock, 30% perlite, 30% coarse sand, 10% humus). They are about >20-24 >months old now and I've potted them up several times. I plan to keep to or 3 >of each type and find homes for the extras. > >Last year I protected them from rain during winter; they never got bone dry >due to splash and spray but the leaves mostly died down. This year I will >let >them stay out in the garden, in 1- or 2-gallon containers over the winter. >Perhaps if we have mild frosts again they will remain evergreen or perhaps >they >will die down. > >They are such strong growers that I'm hopeful some will bloom next summer. >If nothing else I want to try their pollen on the other aloes that tolerate >Houston (e.g., maculata, arborescens, striatula). > >LINK: Aloe cooperi page at Plantzafrica.com >http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantab/aloecooperi.htm > >LINK: Aloe striatula page at Plant Delights Nursery >http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Current/Detail/04037.html > >Oh yeah, I sure would like to find seed of more species of grass (or bulb) >aloes; if you have some to sell or trade please contact me. > > >Cordially, > >Conroe Joe >ConroeJoe@aol.com >71 F high today in Conroe, TX: 55 F predicted for overnight low >humidity: 85% at 6:00 p.m. >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jshields104@insightbb.com Sat Nov 27 10:15:37 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041127101109.02bf63d0@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Book on Aloes Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:15:36 -0500 From JYOURCH@nc.rr.com Sat Nov 27 10:16:25 2004 Message-Id: <000601c4d494$0f55dc30$0200a8c0@Office> From: "Jay Yourch" Subject: New Iris ensata photo added Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:16:24 -0500 Hi all, Yesterday I added a photo of Iris ensata 'Variegata' to the wiki. If you are interested in taking a look see: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Iris Regards, Jay From jshields104@insightbb.com Sat Nov 27 12:19:10 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041127120737.02173010@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Hardy Aloe, Moraea, and Dierama Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:19:03 -0500 Jim W. and all, Now Jim, we expect nothing less from you than a healthy, critical approach to science and plants. However, the previously book clearly refers to the three species, kniphofioides, modesta, and inconspicua, as having persistent underground bulb-like structures atop the root. They even show a picture of them for kniphofioides. They look like the bases of old leaves. I cannot see any of even the hardiest species of Aloe surviving outdoors here through a winter. That does not mean I won't try them if I get some seeds, however! I definitely will. Now Moraea: I have had MM. galpinii and huttonii survive the winter in the ground here, but never to bloom. And they do not survive many winters in the ground! I have had several Dierama species survive at least a few winters outdoors in the ground: DD. dracomontanum, latifolium, and mossii. Of these, dracomontanum and latifolium even flowered once. They are at best short-lived perennials here. Regards, Jim Shields in rainy, cold central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From mark@marksgardenplants.com Sat Nov 27 12:36:48 2004 Message-Id: <01ac01c4d4a7$a91b6bb0$e86a2bd9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Galanthus elwesii in bloom! Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:36:41 -0000 not counting peshemnii and reginae-olgae I have early snowdrops flowering too. Looking good are G. elwesii Hiemalis Group and plicatus 'Three Ships'. The latter normally looks good for Christmas and the new year. I have other winter/spring plants getting things wrong. I have the following in flower Primrose - P. vulgaris Cowslip - P. veris Pulsatilla - P. vulgaris Ranunculus ficaria all in fully leaf and some flowering. Daphne - D. bohlua 'J. Postill' creeping Phlox - Mark N Ireland ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McKenney" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 6:30 PM Subject: [pbs] Galanthus elwesii in bloom! > The first Galanthus elwesii have appeared on the front lawn, a bit earlier > than usual. > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@starpower.net > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where we have had a killing > freeze yet gardens are still full of interesting flowering odds and ends. From totototo@pacificcoast.net Sat Nov 27 14:21:57 2004 Message-Id: From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: BACK UP - Grass Aloes are "sort of" bulbs - NOT Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:27:49 -8 On 27 Nov 04 at 8:18, James Waddick wrote: > Dear Joe and All; > Hate to be a spoil sport, but... > I had to refute comparing grass aloes to bulbs. As far as I > know there are no bulbous Aloe. These are herbaceous perennials > plain and simple. Don't really mind any discussions especially if > any are really Zone 5/6 hardy, but these are not bulbs. > > Just a small reality check. Humbug season I suppose. I've been out on the web & such long enough to take considerably exception to camels' noses when they appear under the edge of the tent. The fastest way to ruin any kind of net-forum (newsgroup, mailing list, whatever) is to discuss related topics that are not actually on-topic. I've seen groups ruined because no body put up a fuss when these irrelevancies started to appear, so I'll put up a fuss here and now and hope to nip them in the bud.[1] I have no shame in being a spoil sport. This is NOT a general gardening mailing list. It is NOT a mailing list for gardeners in the harsh mid-continent climate of North America. IMHO it is a mailing list about *bulbs*, and by courtesy, corms, and tubers and rhizomes where these operate as do bulbs. And given the history of the PBS, there is a special emphasis on amaryllids, esp. those of the New World. So please folks, take the grass aloes -- and dare I say it? -- the peonies to another forum. Also the rhizomatous irises. And the oriental poppies. A plant's dying down in hot dry weather and having a fleshy root structure doesn't qualify it for this list. IMHO, of course. [1] Does my rant get bonus points for making a horticultural analogy? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From msittner@mcn.org Sat Nov 27 20:33:31 2004 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041127170216.01ea2590@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Topics for discussion on our list Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:31:22 -0800 Hi everybody, Our list has been quiet lately so I hate to see new discussion grind to a halt. There never has been a lot of off topic discussion that lasts for very long on this list. Arnold and I rarely intervene as we haven't felt we had to. When we started this list and the Pacific Bulb Society we mainly wanted the discussion to be friendly, to be focused on bulbs and geophytes in general, but to allow some discussion about plants that could be companions to bulbs. Even those of us who are most fanatical about growing bulbs do grow other things. We've been liberal in what we included as geophytes for our wiki as well. There are genera that may have a few geophytes even though most of the species are not and talking about the ones that are geophytes is fine. It sounds like Jim Shields has discovered a few Aloes that fall in this category. If we were being overwhelmed with messages perhaps we'd have to be more restrictive, but we have far fewer posts than we used to have. It is helpful for the subjects to be clearly labeled so that people can skip subjects that they are not interested in. I was curious about this statement of Rodger's: "And given the history of the PBS, there is a special emphasis on amaryllids, esp. those of the New World." I don't think we have a special emphasis on amaryllids. We talk about whatever people on this list bring up. I did a quick check of the genera we have talked about as topics of the week and I counted at least 16 different families represented. We have talked about more amaryllids it is true, but only one more genus than we've talked about in the Hyacinthaceae family, and the Iridaceae family is close behind. If all those California species like Brodiaea, Dichelostemma, Triteleia, Calochortus hadn't recently been taken out of Liliaceae that family would have been well represented as well. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator From dkramb@badbear.com Sat Nov 27 23:25:07 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20041127231411.01b2c9e0@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: hippeastrum seedling Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:25:01 -0500 About 4 years ago I purchased some Hippeastrums at the store. I attempted crossing different colored varieties with each other and got some seeds. Not knowing what I was doing, I planted them. Many sprouted, but eventually withered away. Suffice it to say, only one is now left. About 2 years ago I learned "proper" care for mature Hippeastrums to get them to rebloom. A buddy taught me to plant them in my garden during the warm summer months, and then lift them in winter. It worked like a charm! So this past spring/summer I did the same with my seedling and it nearly doubled in size.... to approximately that of a grape. At any rate, I recently lifted it and have it resting in my basement. I really would like to nurture this thing to bloom. I did a bit of Googling but couldn't find any good sites to get tips on raising them. Is there anyone on-line that could share a few pointers for me? I'm hoping that in 2 years from now I can get it to be big enough to bloom. Dennis in Cincy From mark@marksgardenplants.com Sun Nov 28 04:41:00 2004 Message-Id: <002301c4d52e$585a2090$a1df2ad9@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: hippeastrum seedling Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 09:40:49 -0000 Dennis I think you should contact Veronica Read http://www.veronicareadhippeastrum.com/ or buy her book Hippeastrum The Gardeners Amaryllis published by Timber Press Mark N Ireland Is there > anyone on-line that could share a few pointers for me? I'm hoping that in > 2 years from now I can get it to be big enough to bloom. > > Dennis in Cincy From dejager@bulbargence.com Sun Nov 28 05:18:48 2004 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Morea polystachya - hardiness continued Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 11:19:50 +0100 Dear Jim, The other Moraea which can be qualified as hardy: Moraea marlothii (Homeria section) but the pale yellow flowers appear in march-april le 27/11/04 15:20, James Waddick à jwaddick@kc.rr.com a écrit : > Wow Seed capsules. I have never had these > before, but now hope I might see some before this > mild spell plunges us down to the teens- still > not in the forecast. > Any other Morea face the cold as well for you? Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence Mas d'Argence 30300 Fourques France tel 31(0)466 016 519 fax 0466 011 245 http://www.bulbargence.com From buj.joschko@freenet.de Sun Nov 28 07:57:59 2004 Message-Id: From: "Hans und Babs Joschko" Subject: AW: [pbs] Morea polystachya - hardiness continued Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 13:58:20 +0100 Hello Lauw, Can you please give me a advice what are the other plants beside M. marlothii in the section Homeria of Moraea . Thank you in advance Hans -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]Im Auftrag von Lauw de Jager Gesendet: Sonntag, 28. November 2004 11:20 An: Pacific Bulb Society Betreff: Re: [pbs] Morea polystachya - hardiness continued Dear Jim, The other Moraea which can be qualified as hardy: Moraea marlothii (Homeria section) but the pale yellow flowers appear in march-april le 27/11/04 15:20, James Waddick à jwaddick@kc.rr.com a écrit : > Wow Seed capsules. I have never had these > before, but now hope I might see some before this > mild spell plunges us down to the teens- still > not in the forecast. > Any other Morea face the cold as well for you? Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence Mas d'Argence 30300 Fourques France tel 31(0)466 016 519 fax 0466 011 245 http://www.bulbargence.com _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jshields@indy.net Sun Nov 28 09:58:02 2004 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041128071143.02189498@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: hippeastrum seedling Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 09:58:01 -0500 Hi Dennis, Hippeastrum seedlings should be kept in continuous growth until the bulbs are up to bloom size. Don't let them dry out or they will go dormant. They often don't make it through a dry dormant period while they are still very small. Too much moisture will rot them, the small seedlings are susceptible to damp-off, but drying out is just as likely to kill them. Use Subdue fungicide to control damp-off. I keep them under fluorescent lights, 16hrs on/8 hrs off, for about 2 years at least. Drive up to Indy sometime, and I'd be happy to show you our set-up. Best regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana At 11:25 PM 11/27/2004 -0500, you wrote: >About 4 years ago I purchased some Hippeastrums at the store. I attempted >crossing different colored varieties with each other and got some >seeds. Not knowing what I was doing, I planted them. Many sprouted, but >eventually withered away. Suffice it to say, only one is now left. > >About 2 years ago I learned "proper" care for mature Hippeastrums to get >them to rebloom. A buddy taught me to plant them in my garden during the >warm summer months, and then lift them in winter. It worked like a >charm! So this past spring/summer I did the same with my seedling and it >nearly doubled in size.... to approximately that of a grape. > >At any rate, I recently lifted it and have it resting in my basement. I >really would like to nurture this thing to bloom. I did a bit of Googling >but couldn't find any good sites to get tips on raising them. Is there >anyone on-line that could share a few pointers for me? I'm hoping that in >2 years from now I can get it to be big enough to bloom. > >Dennis in Cincy > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From tglavich@sbcglobal.net Sun Nov 28 10:01:47 2004 Message-Id: <20041128150146.90679.qmail@web80806.mail.yahoo.com> From: Thomas Glavich Subject: hippeastrum seedling Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 07:01:46 -0800 (PST) Dennis, I live in Southern California, and my conditions are different than yours, however, getting Hippeastrum to bloom is not too hard. With luck you can get tetraploid blooms in 3 years, with average care 4. I grow my seedlings in group pots, usually 5.5 inch squares. I start with about 20 seedling plants, and repot as the pot gets full, with the repotting taking place when the bulbs start to touch each other. One seedling per pot would be fine as well. Give it a bit more root room than you think it needs. I use a light mix, pumice or perlite, coir and commercial potting soil. Good drainage is important. I fertilize whenever growing, usually with miracle grow, and generally put some commercial time release fertilizer in the pot as well. If you can, keep the bulb from going dormant during the first two years. Just feed it a lot, and keep it warm. Sometimes they will go dormant anyway and there is nothing you can do. The bulb should survive, it will just be slower. When the bulbs get to be about the size of a golf ball, treat them as you would any commercially purchased bulb, allowing them to go dormant. With you bulb out of the pot, it probably has already gone dormant. I would give it a rest until late Dec or January, pot it up, water once or twice and see if it starts growing again. If not, let it go until April and then get it going again. As you have already found out, Hippeastrum really like free root run. If you get it back in the ground again after the last frost, you should do well quickly. Don't be afraid to fertilize these, they are heavy feeders. Tom Dennis Kramb wrote: About 4 years ago I purchased some Hippeastrums at the store. I attempted crossing different colored varieties with each other and got some seeds. Not knowing what I was doing, I planted them. Many sprouted, but eventually withered away. Suffice it to say, only one is now left. About 2 years ago I learned "proper" care for mature Hippeastrums to get them to rebloom. A buddy taught me to plant them in my garden during the warm summer months, and then lift them in winter. It worked like a charm! So this past spring/summer I did the same with my seedling and it nearly doubled in size.... to approximately that of a grape. At any rate, I recently lifted it and have it resting in my basement. I really would like to nurture this thing to bloom. I did a bit of Googling but couldn't find any good sites to get tips on raising them. Is there anyone on-line that could share a few pointers for me? I'm hoping that in 2 years from now I can get it to be big enough to bloom. Dennis in Cincy _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sun Nov 28 14:07:39 2004 Message-Id: <42.5d50cd6e.2edb7bf2@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: About Crinum Seeds and Seedlings (a long missive) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 14:07:30 EST Hi, A year or two ago I purchased some Crinum variable seedlings from Silverhill Seeds; they germinated easily and grew well, apparently not caring if it was summer, winter, or whatever. They enjoyed the rains and the winter temperatures, etc.; 5 or 6 bulbs sitting happily in 1-gallon pots and growing slowly. I got ambitious and found some C. bulbispermum seeds on plants that had naturalized in this part of Texas. These seeds too were easy, they germinated quickly enough in hot weather and seemed happy with their life in 1-gallon pots. They grew so much that I had to pot them up in a year-3 seedlings per 5-gallon pot. Who knows how long that will hold them. They put on bulk much more quickly than C. variabile but that was the only difference-both species were well behaved and didn't complain. I got still more ambitious and ordered more species of Crinum seed from Silverhill. These arrived from Africa in mid- or late-winter. It was cold out so I planted them up in small pots (sturdy 16 oz. plastic drinking cups) and set them to germinate alongside Agave and Aloe seedlings; they were indoors and under fluorescent lights. I just used cool white bulbs (40 W) and figured they wouldn't need other wavelengths of light for 2 reasons: 1) as seedlings they would likely only need blue light (not red), and 2) they were next to a big window which got bright winter light. The germinated OK, in fact some had germinated in transit and had pre-roots when they arrived. Some of these pregerminators had been damaged, they had bruises and spots where the tender growth had pushed against the packaging. I soaked these seeds in Consan solution for a day or two-changing the double strength solution twice daily. Consan won't hurt seedlings but it does a number on fungi and bacteria in active growth-I reasoned that if the bruises had become infected they would benefit from the Consan treatment and perhaps find time to heal over the bruises. Also, after the Consan treatment I allowed the pergerminators to dry for overnight at room temperature and then I dusted them again with sulfur powder (they came in sulfur). The point of all the drenching and dusting, etc., was to allow time for would healing that might begin before I put the seeds in a high humidity atmosphere for germination-I hoped that such treatment would nip any incipient infections. In truth, the seeds did not appear to be infected when they arrived and other than bruises were in very good shape. Finally, I planted the seeds out in a mix that was about 50% humans and 50% sand and perlite. The mostly all germinated and did fine-a few did not survive but losses were below 20%--not bad for seeds coming all the way from Africa in the wrong growing season. In spring I put the seedlings outside-3-6 per 16 oz. cup. This is where things started to go wrong. They adjusted to the sun OK because I used a shade cloth. And they seemed to be getting along fine. Then June came along with temperatures near 95 F (35 C) most days, and rain every day (30 days of precipitation). I was busy in June and didn't pay attention; a number of seedlings died (interestingly Eucomis vandermerwei seedlings didn't die but they stopped growing). I lost seedlings of all types, even those reported to be from wet conditions and which I supposed might grow like C. bulbispermum seedlings. I probably lost 80% of the winter-arrived seedlings by mid-July and then I took action. I carefully repotted them all in new soil mix, watered them with a systemic fungicide, and gave them dilute fertilizer every 2-3 weeks. They didn't really enjoy things until about mid-October when temperatures moderated a bit. October was warm, but temperatures were often 10 degrees F cooler than had been the case in July and August. Tentative Conclusion: I think that some summer-growing South African bulbs (including Eucomis vandermerwei) are not summer growers in Houston, TX. I think they resent the temperatures (maybe the humidity too), and the respond by going semi-dormant or even dying. Perhaps, if they were in the soil, with cooler root temperatures, they might behave differently. But, in small pots the soil stays at least 70-75 F all summer (night time temperatures) and the soil may become much warmer in the day-even when the roots are shaded. I think that these summer growers might turn out to be 2-season bulbs here in Houston-at least while they are small. They remind me of roses the way they pooped out in the hottest months only to pick up again in the fall. Some Crinum are clearly not as happy here in Texas as is C. bulbispermum. Cordially, Conroe Joe From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Sun Nov 28 14:23:10 2004 Message-Id: <20041128192310.48350.qmail@web50105.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Architecture Subject: Grass aloes Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 11:23:10 -0800 (PST) I have one grass aloe that I got years ago from Out of Africa. It has survived several years with extreme neglect here in So. CA. I had it planted in the ground at a community garden that I had. It was dry all the time except for a monthly flooding. It still flowered and produced copious amount of seeds. My poor seed sowing techniques prevented me from getting seedlings. It went dormant for a year and then came back with a vengance. I believe it is A. myricantha but don't quote me on it. I want to get a lot more because I love the look of them and would like to see them used more in landscapes here. I do believe that they are geophytes because when it went "dormant" and it was being moved, it had a funky storage thing that I could only describe as a swollen root comparable to a small peony. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) From dkramb@badbear.com Sun Nov 28 22:53:41 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20041128224951.01bb8ec0@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: hippeastrum seedling Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 22:53:41 -0500 Thanks for all the responses, everyone! It's a bit of a bummer to find I've done the not-so-best thing (again) but hey, we all have to learn by doing. I think this bulb is big enough to survive it's forced dormancy. I don't have any grow lights or greenhouses or anything, so it will have to make do with what minimal coddling I can provide. Jim, I would love to come visit some time! You're only a couple hours away so maybe after the Christmas season we can make some plans. As for my other seedlings demise I'm sure they mostly died from drying out. I grew them in a cactus tray and didn't always remember to water them. 3 lived for about 3 years, but by the 4th year only one was left. Originally 30-something had germinated. Dennis in Cincinnati At 09:58 AM 11/28/2004, you wrote: >Hi Dennis, > >Hippeastrum seedlings should be kept in continuous growth until the bulbs >are up to bloom size. Don't let them dry out or they will go >dormant. They often don't make it through a dry dormant period while they >are still very small. > >Too much moisture will rot them, the small seedlings are susceptible to >damp-off, but drying out is just as likely to kill them. Use Subdue >fungicide to control damp-off. > >I keep them under fluorescent lights, 16hrs on/8 hrs off, for about 2 >years at least. > >Drive up to Indy sometime, and I'd be happy to show you our set-up. > >Best regards, >Jim Shields >in central Indiana > >At 11:25 PM 11/27/2004 -0500, you wrote: >>About 4 years ago I purchased some Hippeastrums at the store. I >>attempted crossing different colored varieties with each other and got >>some seeds. Not knowing what I was doing, I planted them. Many >>sprouted, but eventually withered away. Suffice it to say, only one is >>now left. >> >>About 2 years ago I learned "proper" care for mature Hippeastrums to get >>them to rebloom. A buddy taught me to plant them in my garden during the >>warm summer months, and then lift them in winter. It worked like a >>charm! So this past spring/summer I did the same with my seedling and it >>nearly doubled in size.... to approximately that of a grape. >> >>At any rate, I recently lifted it and have it resting in my basement. I >>really would like to nurture this thing to bloom. I did a bit of >>Googling but couldn't find any good sites to get tips on raising >>them. Is there anyone on-line that could share a few pointers for >>me? I'm hoping that in 2 years from now I can get it to be big enough to >>bloom. >> >>Dennis in Cincy >> >>_______________________________________________ >>pbs mailing list >>pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >************************************************* >Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. >P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ >Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA >Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Mon Nov 29 05:38:22 2004 Message-Id: <001801c4d600$162230a0$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: hippeastrum seedling Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 05:42:12 -0500 Dennis, this is how most of us learn, the hard way. It seesm ea. seasnb my germination rate goes up exponentially...big learning curve . Kevin D. Preuss www.Amaryllis-Plus.com From daffodil@wave.co.nz Mon Nov 29 06:45:17 2004 Message-Id: <000701c4d608$dfb04490$0a9cfea9@Dads> From: "Bill Dijk" Subject: Favourite blue flowers Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 00:44:58 +1300 Hi Folks, It has been one of those trying, difficult season, where nature with flooding, frost and earthquakes caused major damage and bulb stock losses, from which we are slowly recovering, But life goes on, in good and bad times, whether we like it or not. While we're on the subject (last weeks TOW) I would like to mention my choice favourite blue flowers. Without doubt is of course the exquisite Tecophilaea, the charmer, treasure and envy of all the blue flowers. We have been fortunate to grow it without any problem in our suitable climate, with the right free draining potting medium almost to perfection. Another big favourite is the sometimes temperamental Worsleya rayneri and the showy, long-lasting Leucocoryne species and hybrids, with the added bonus of delectable perfume. I will also download to the wiki a picture of a collection of Leuc.vittata hybrids, very nice, all different. Not to forget others like the beautiful Herbertia species flowering at the moment. This season I managed to flower a special, particular dark blue nicely shaped form of Herb. pulchella, a real treasure. Jim Forrest reckoned he got it from Alberto Castillo, perhaps Alberto might recognise it and put a name to the picture. Then there are the Conathera species, especially the C.bifolia, Moraea villosa "Zoe", Moraea loubseri, Geissorhiza species, especially G.radians, Gelasine azurea (syn G.elongata) the very beautiful Iris cycloglossa, Lapeirousia oreogena, Tropaeolum azureum, just to mention a few I like and grow. There will be plenty more,will show them perhaps another time. I have downloaded the following images to the wiki, go and have a look at them. Enjoy. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Coll.Leuc.vittata-sdgs.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Herbertia-pulchella.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Herbertia-pulchella.form.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Gelasine-azureus.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Leuc.vittata-darker-form.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Iris-cycloglossa.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Moraea-loubseri.jpg Best wishes, Bill D. Tauranga, New Zealand :annual rainfall :1250 mm. Sunshine hours, mean annual : 2350 hours. Temp.mean max.Summer : 25°C. Winter:15°C. Temp.mean min. Summer :14.5°C. Winter: 5°C. Wet mild Winters with occasional light frost. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.3 - Release Date: 26/11/2004 From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Nov 29 09:45:37 2004 Message-Id: From: "James W. Waddick" Subject: Interesting find Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 08:45:15 -0600 Dear all; I cam across this web site, but haven't tried it. Seems this problem has come up before and might be easy for novice use. http://www.resize2mail.com/ I imagine there are other/similar sites, too. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick Near KCI Airport Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Nov 29 20:36:53 2004 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041129095612.010e7c48@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Alstroemeria growing Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:06:39 -0800 I'm collecting material on the genus Alstroemeria in hope of eventually compiling a small book on the subject. One part of this research is learning other growers' experiences. I'd like to correspond and perhaps visit others who have grown both species and hybrids (our forum member Roy Sachs is a notable enthusiast in California, for instance). In particular, I need to answer questions like these: 1. Which species are firmly established in cultivation, and which are considered desirable but not yet established? 2. Which species have been used for hybridizing, other than the well-documented A. ligtu, A. aurea, and A. pulchella? 3. How do commercial hybrids and wild species perform in different climates around the world, especially in the open garden? In particular, what has winter survival been like in regions where winter temperatures regularly fall below 20 degrees F/minus 6 C? 4. How suitable is the current range of hybrids (mostly developed for cutflower production) for planting in gardens? 5. Has anyone attempted to hybridize small, showy species (particularly A. hookeri) with an eye toward creating a low-growing, heavy-flowering group of cultivars for garden borders? I hope some of you can participate in this information-gathering. I've already been growing about 15 species for some years and have viewed and photographed them during three trips to Chile, but I need to do much more! Thanks, Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From dejager@bulbargence.com Mon Nov 29 13:59:10 2004 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: AW: [pbs] Morea polystachya - hardiness continued Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 19:59:52 +0100 Hans, Moraea species of the Homeria section which are (for me) the easiest to grow: M britteniae, collina, flaccida, ochroleuca, marlothii, cookii, miniata and pendula. Should be planted August - september (beware of corms offered during the springsales). In our area none of these species have a tendency to become invasive (apart from possibly M bulbillifera) Pictures are shown in our website Regards le 28/11/04 13:58, Hans und Babs Joschko à buj.joschko@freenet.de a écrit : > Can you please give me a advice what are the other plants beside M. > marlothii in the section Homeria of Moraea . Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence Mas d'Argence 30300 Fourques France (south of France zone 8) tel 31(0)466 016 519 fax 0466 011 245 http://www.bulbargence.com From buj.joschko@freenet.de Mon Nov 29 15:01:57 2004 Message-Id: From: "Hans und Babs Joschko" Subject: AW: AW: [pbs] Morea polystachya - hardiness continued Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 21:02:21 +0100 Hello Lauw , thank you for your answer to Homeria . I have found your wonderful pictures on your webseite . With best wishes Hans -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]Im Auftrag von Lauw de Jager Gesendet: Montag, 29. November 2004 20:00 An: Pacific Bulb Society Betreff: Re: AW: [pbs] Morea polystachya - hardiness continued Hans, Moraea species of the Homeria section which are (for me) the easiest to grow: M britteniae, collina, flaccida, ochroleuca, marlothii, cookii, miniata and pendula. Should be planted August - september (beware of corms offered during the springsales). In our area none of these species have a tendency to become invasive (apart from possibly M bulbillifera) Pictures are shown in our website Regards le 28/11/04 13:58, Hans und Babs Joschko à buj.joschko@freenet.de a écrit : > Can you please give me a advice what are the other plants beside M. > marlothii in the section Homeria of Moraea . Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence Mas d'Argence 30300 Fourques France (south of France zone 8) tel 31(0)466 016 519 fax 0466 011 245 http://www.bulbargence.com _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From pbrooks3@sc.rr.com Mon Nov 29 17:05:30 2004 Message-Id: <001a01c4d65f$8a22cc30$6501a8c0@home> From: "Patricia Brooks" Subject: BX/87 Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:05:29 -0500 I am sorry to say that I lost my list for BX/87, would some one be so kind and tell me what 4, and 21 were. Thanks Pat in SC From pbrooks3@sc.rr.com Mon Nov 29 17:21:44 2004 Message-Id: <001d01c4d661$cf6856f0$6501a8c0@home> From: "Patricia Brooks" Subject: SAorry I meant BX81 Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:21:45 -0500 Sorry wrong number. Probably need my g lasses changed. Pat From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Mon Nov 29 17:32:55 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20041130093102.058daa00@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: BX/87 Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:33:29 +1100 At 09:05 30/11/04, you wrote: >I am sorry to say that I lost my list for BX/87, would some one be so kind >and tell me what 4, and 21 were. Pat, From BX 81...... #4 and #21 are as follows.... >From Arnold Trachtenberg: 4. Offsets of Colocasia esculenta which I over winter in a cold attic in bags of just moist coir. >From Jane McGary: 21. Paradisea lusitanica: Summer-flowering, about 80 cm tall, white. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Trilliums, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Tue Nov 30 03:22:04 2004 Message-Id: <002701c4d6b5$aad99f70$30df403e@John> From: Subject: Grass Aloes are good geophytes Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 06:37:17 -0000 Just to throw my spanner in the works, in my opinion grass aloes are at least as 'bulbous' as may of the plants discussed on this list. They have a swollen, tuberous root, become dormant and lose their leaves as summer drought sets in and reappear when it rains. An excellent example of a geophytic perennial monocot, which is, after all, what we love to discuss here. They behave exactly as do the western American geophytic Delphinium species regularly discussed here without cavil, or Tropaeolum, or Alstroemeria, or Cyclamen, or Narcissus... To rant about such plants that occasionally pop up in a general discussion seems unnecessary. We are gardeners here, some perhaps call themselves plantsmen, and the fringes of our subject should never be excluded: I enjoy broadening my horizons, not narrowing them. As a group we live in many parts of the world and to me at least, it is rather interesting if a mini-thread develops on growing bulbs in a harsh climate, a mild climate, wherever. Crinums grown in Florida are out of my reach, but it doesn't mean to say I am not interested. I agree that the core of our discussion should be 'bulbous' plants - whatever they may be - but let us not forget that a core has a periphery. And yes, I do grow a grass aloe, A. myriacantha, currently resting out the dormant season in a pot alongside Gloriosa superba; my succulent aloes are growing adjacent to my Clivia miniata. Which of these are geophytes? John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rodger Whitlock" To: Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] BACK UP - Grass Aloes are "sort of" bulbs - NOT > On 27 Nov 04 at 8:18, James Waddick wrote: > > > Dear Joe and All; > > Hate to be a spoil sport, but... > > I had to refute comparing grass aloes to bulbs. As far as I > > know there are no bulbous Aloe. These are herbaceous perennials > > plain and simple. Don't really mind any discussions especially if > > any are really Zone 5/6 hardy, but these are not bulbs. > > > > Just a small reality check. Humbug season I suppose. > > I've been out on the web & such long enough to take considerably > exception to camels' noses when they appear under the edge of the > tent. The fastest way to ruin any kind of net-forum (newsgroup, > mailing list, whatever) is to discuss related topics that are not > actually on-topic. I've seen groups ruined because no body put up a > fuss when these irrelevancies started to appear, so I'll put up a > fuss here and now and hope to nip them in the bud.[1] > > I have no shame in being a spoil sport. > > This is NOT a general gardening mailing list. It is NOT a mailing > list for gardeners in the harsh mid-continent climate of North > America. IMHO it is a mailing list about *bulbs*, and by courtesy, > corms, and tubers and rhizomes where these operate as do bulbs. > > And given the history of the PBS, there is a special emphasis on > amaryllids, esp. those of the New World. > > So please folks, take the grass aloes -- and dare I say it? -- the > peonies to another forum. Also the rhizomatous irises. And the > oriental poppies. A plant's dying down in hot dry weather and having > a fleshy root structure doesn't qualify it for this list. IMHO, of > course. > > [1] Does my rant get bonus points for making a horticultural analogy? > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate > > on beautiful Vancouver Island > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Tue Nov 30 06:29:53 2004 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20041130222233.03dbb900@pop.ozemail.com.au> From: Paul Tyerman Subject: Alstroemeria growing Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 22:30:23 +1100 > >5. Has anyone attempted to hybridize small, showy species (particularly A. >hookeri) with an eye toward creating a low-growing, heavy-flowering group >of cultivars for garden borders? Jane, I am not aware of whether these are unique to Australia or not, but we have a whole range of "Dwarf" Alstroemerias available over here. There must be at least a dozen different varieties now (not including duplicates sold under different names by different suppliers!). The dwarf varieties range from around 6-8 inches tall up to a bit under 2 feet...... they're most definitely dwarf when compared to the old favourites like 'Yellow King', 'Red Fury', 'Reginae' etc (I think I have seen these mentioned by overseas people which is why I am fairly certain they aren't just Aussie ones). I do not have any idea of how these dwarf varieties were bred though..... just that they range in colour from almost white through yellow, a range of different pinks and red-pinks etc. Some have distinct flashes of other colour, while I recently bought one that is supposed to only grow to 2 feet tall that is probably the most purple I have seen of any Alstroemeria. If I can get any more information for you then please let me know. I have sent to the list in case it interests others. I grow all of mine in large self-watering tubs. They like the extra water, and it controls them so they don't take over the world. The only problem is that the tubers all end up right at the bottom of the pots and are almost impossible to lift out without repotting the whole thing. I promised one to Roy Sachs a few years ago but I have yet to successfully get a piece out of the pot, and I have not been well enough to go through upending the whole tub to get one out... and they're basically evergreen so I don't want to break off the flowers! LOL I just can't win! The dwarfs definitely do put on a wonderful display though, and much easier to enjoy as they are packed in together instead of waving around on long stems getting in the way! Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Trilliums, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! From biblio@nc.rr.com Tue Nov 30 07:47:11 2004 Message-Id: From: Bobby Ward Subject: Grass Aloes are good geophytes Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 07:47:07 -0500 >Just to throw my spanner in the works, in my opinion grass aloes are at >least as 'bulbous' as may of the plants discussed on this list. Good comment, John. BJ -- ____________ Bobby J. Ward 930 Wimbleton Drive Raleigh, North Carolina 27609-4356 USA Telephone: 919-781-3291 Fax number: 919-783-0654 email biblio@nc.rr.com USDA horticultural Zone 7 From john@floralarchitecture.com Tue Nov 30 12:37:32 2004 Message-Id: <20041130173731.58667.qmail@web50109.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Gethyllis cilliaris Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:37:31 -0800 (PST) Can anyone give me some info on this plant? A supplier has offered me some bulbs but I have no idea what to do with them if I get them. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) From mysticgardn@yahoo.com Tue Nov 30 17:35:04 2004 Message-Id: <20041130223503.83667.qmail@web40510.mail.yahoo.com> From: Ann Marie Subject: Favourite blue flowers Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:35:03 -0800 (PST) Such nice photos and so organized thank you, I enjoyed them. Ann Marie Bill Dijk wrote:Hi Folks, It has been one of those trying, difficult season, where nature with flooding, frost and earthquakes caused major damage and bulb stock losses, from which we are slowly recovering, But life goes on, in good and bad times, whether we like it or not. While we're on the subject (last weeks TOW) I would like to mention my choice favourite blue flowers. Without doubt is of course the exquisite Tecophilaea, the charmer, treasure and envy of all the blue flowers. We have been fortunate to grow it without any problem in our suitable climate, with the right free draining potting medium almost to perfection. Another big favourite is the sometimes temperamental Worsleya rayneri and the showy, long-lasting Leucocoryne species and hybrids, with the added bonus of delectable perfume. I will also download to the wiki a picture of a collection of Leuc.vittata hybrids, very nice, all different. Not to forget others like the beautiful Herbertia species flowering at the moment. This season I managed to flower a special, particular dark blue nicely shaped form of Herb. pulchella, a real treasure. Jim Forrest reckoned he got it from Alberto Castillo, perhaps Alberto might recognise it and put a name to the picture. Then there are the Conathera species, especially the C.bifolia, Moraea villosa "Zoe", Moraea loubseri, Geissorhiza species, especially G.radians, Gelasine azurea (syn G.elongata) the very beautiful Iris cycloglossa, Lapeirousia oreogena, Tropaeolum azureum, just to mention a few I like and grow. There will be plenty more,will show them perhaps another time. I have downloaded the following images to the wiki, go and have a look at them. Enjoy. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Coll.Leuc.vittata-sdgs.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Herbertia-pulchella.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Herbertia-pulchella.form.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Gelasine-azureus.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Leuc.vittata-darker-form.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Iris-cycloglossa.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Moraea-loubseri.jpg Best wishes, Bill D. Tauranga, New Zealand :annual rainfall :1250 mm. Sunshine hours, mean annual : 2350 hours. Temp.mean max.Summer : 25°C. Winter:15°C. Temp.mean min. Summer :14.5°C. Winter: 5°C. Wet mild Winters with occasional light frost. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.3 - Release Date: 26/11/2004 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Ann Marie So. California, San Gabriel Valley, Zone 21 (Sunset Western Garden book) , influenced by both marine and interior air(Santa Ana winds). This makes it perfect for Citrus trees and most So African plants. I collect belladonnas, oxalis, criniums, amaryllis, palms, epiphyllums, succulents and other south african bulbs. For home and garden sculptures go to http://www.rjunkdrawer.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo! From pbrooks3@sc.rr.com Tue Nov 30 22:09:11 2004 Message-Id: <005001c4d753$23298ec0$6501a8c0@home> From: "Patricia Brooks" Subject: Thanks Paul and now a question Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 22:09:14 -0500 I have Crinum erubescens blooming now. Is there a g reen st em version of this or is that another type of Crinum Thanks Paul for the informationon the BX Pat in Zone 8 SC