From hpovey@talk21.com Fri Apr 1 05:40:43 2005 Message-Id: <20050401104042.6167.qmail@web86206.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> From: Hugh Povey Subject: Scilla Maderensis Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 11:40:42 +0100 (BST) Dear all, Does anyone know where I can locate seeds or bulbs of this Scilla? I have recently seen some stunning new Ornithogalum Dubium varieties which originate in Israel.I will post pictures shortly. Hugh Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com From JFlintoff@aol.com Fri Apr 1 13:05:17 2005 Message-Id: <8C704FC7D8813DA-E2C-E04A@mblk-d34.sysops.aol.com> From: jflintoff@aol.com Subject: Green-flowered Anemone nemorosa Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 13:05:15 -0500 Rodger Janis Rucksans who has been a major international supplier of the phyllodic form admitted in a catalog a year or so ago that it was the same as ' Green Fingers '. Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washington,USA zone 8 From DaveKarn@aol.com Fri Apr 1 13:39:11 2005 Message-Id: <1c4.255f87f2.2f7eef4b@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: Narcissus Falconet Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 13:39:07 EST Joe ~ If you like 'Falconet,' you'll like several of the others in this class! Its siblings 'Hoopoe' (best grower), 'Radiant Gem' (deepest color), 'Mot Mot,' and 'Sparkling Tarts.' (good color). 'Bright Spangles' and 'Bright Spot' (a bit larger than the others), 'Castanets' (a x w/'Grand Soleil d'Or' that does better in milder climates), 'Explosion,' 'Martinette,' and 'Matador' (itself, the seed parent of these). In each of these hybrids, the delicious light fragrance of N. jonquilla carries through to them. In some cases, it is combined with the equally delightful perfume of N. tazetta from the other parent. I've found no one who objects to this fragrance, unlike that of N. papyraceous (Paperwhites), for example, which can be overpoweringly musky to many, particularly in a closed room where they may have been grown for Winter bloom. It's interesting to note that fragrance or, rather, the ability to detect same or be overpowered by it, is an odd genetic anomaly that may be peculiar to humans. The ability to enjoy or be repelled by fragrance is an individual difference. I never seem able to get enough of the tea rose fragrance of 'Fragrant Rose,' one of my very favorite daffodils. Yet, there are some who are unable to detect any fragrance at all! These tazetta x jonquil hybrids really do better in somewhat milder climates, although I did grow them in Minnesota (not normally thought of as having mild winters!!). Here, in Oregon, after two years down, these hybrids will be an aboslute bush of flowering stems. Any, or all of them will do very well for you in your climate and would be rewarding additions to your Springtime garden. 'Falconet,' while a fine example of these hybrids, has the somewhat annoying habit of being an overly rapid multiplier, necessitating frequent digging and dividing. Grant Mitsch, in addition to being a daffodil hybridizer and creator of most of these hybrids, was an amateur ornithologist who named many of his introductions after birds. That accounts for the odd names of several of these daffodils: Hoopoe is an old world bird, particularly African and Mot Mot is a South American bird related to the kingfishers. Dave Karnstedt Cascade Daffodils P. O. Box 237 Silverton, OR 97381-0237 email: davekarn@aol.com From Blee811@aol.com Fri Apr 1 15:52:34 2005 Message-Id: <29.7042e3f0.2f7f0e88@aol.com> From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: Narcissus Falconet Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 15:52:24 EST In a message dated 4/1/2005 1:39:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, DaveKarn@aol.com writes: I never seem able to get enough of the tea rose fragrance of 'Fragrant Rose,' one of my very favorite daffodils. Yet, there are some who are unable to detect any fragrance at all! I have had the occasion to have stems of 'Fragrant Rose' on exhibit in public displays on several occasions. Because of its breakthrough fragrance, I am in the habit of sticking it in people's faces to smell. My observation is that most men can detect the fragrance, but many women cannot. On the other hand, some of my women daffodil friends tell me that is because the men just won't admit that they can't smell it! Bill Lee From jshields104@insightbb.com Fri Apr 1 21:04:27 2005 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050401205914.0469c420@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: First Get-together of the Midwest Clivia Club Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 21:04:25 -0500 Hi all! At the Clivia Symposium last week, a few of us decided we wanted to start an informal clivia group in the Midwest. We're calling it the Midwest Clivia Club. No dues, no officers, no newsletters, just occasional informal get-togethers. The first is coming up! I know a few PBSers live within 500 miles of Indiana, so if you do, you're welcome to come! We want to get together as soon as possible, before the clivia flowers fade. So we want to meet here at my place in Westfield, Indiana, on Saturday, April 16th. We will start in the morning, have a cold buffet lunch here, and continue through the afternoon. If you have plants in flower, please bring a few to display. Bring 35-mm color slides, powerpoint programs, anything you have on Clivia to share. Hope to see you here on the 16th. If you want to come in on Friday evening or stay over Saturday night, there are several motels/hotels in this general area (1 to 5 miles away). We can offer suggestions if needed. Please RSVP so we can plan the food! Regards, Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From dkramb@badbear.com Fri Apr 1 21:34:26 2005 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20050401213401.01c6c788@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: First Get-together of the Midwest Clivia Club Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 21:34:26 -0500 I don't grow clivias, but I'd love to meet some fellow PBSers... can I come?? Dennis in Cincinnati At 09:04 PM 4/1/2005, you wrote: >Hi all! > >At the Clivia Symposium last week, a few of us decided we wanted to start >an informal clivia group in the Midwest. We're calling it the Midwest >Clivia Club. No dues, no officers, no newsletters, just occasional >informal get-togethers. The first is coming up! > >I know a few PBSers live within 500 miles of Indiana, so if you do, you're >welcome to come! > >We want to get together as soon as possible, before the clivia flowers >fade. So we want to meet here at my place in Westfield, Indiana, on >Saturday, April 16th. We will start in the morning, have a cold buffet >lunch here, and continue through the afternoon. > >If you have plants in flower, please bring a few to display. Bring 35-mm >color slides, powerpoint programs, anything you have on Clivia to share. > >Hope to see you here on the 16th. > >If you want to come in on Friday evening or stay over Saturday night, >there are several motels/hotels in this general area (1 to 5 miles >away). We can offer suggestions if needed. > >Please RSVP so we can plan the food! > >Regards, >Jim Shields > > >************************************************* >Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. >P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ >Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA >Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jshields@indy.net Sat Apr 2 07:28:31 2005 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050402072648.01e33b60@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: First Get-together of the Midwest Clivia Club Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 07:28:29 -0500 Dennis, Sure you can come! So can other PBSers who don't (yet) grow any Clivia. There will be a few spring bulbs in flower outdoors then too, I suspect. Just be sure to RSVP. See you on the 16th. Jim At 09:34 PM 4/1/2005 -0500, you wrote: >I don't grow clivias, but I'd love to meet some fellow PBSers... can I come?? > >Dennis in Cincinnati ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From msittner@mcn.org Sat Apr 2 13:16:42 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050402073645.0278d470@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Mendocino Sonoma Coast Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 10:14:30 -0800 Dear All, Like Angelo I have made a wiki page to add all the geophytes that grow in the area where I live that I visit in the wild. I'm accumulating quite a few and have just added a few more that I photographed when Uli was here and a couple others I just hadn't gotten around to adding. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MendocinoSonomaCoast Seen with Uli this week: Erythronium californicum Fritillaria affinis Smilacina stellata Those three are all very hard to photograph and I think I'll always be trying to improve. They are usually found in the shade and two of them have white flowers which makes getting leaves and flowers in focus and not part of the picture washed out or too dark very hard. Fritillaria affinis on the stretch where we were walking you usually don't see unless the sun is highlighting it and then part is almost always in the sun and part in the shade. Plus in this spot it is surrounded by poison oak. Other pictures added Bob or I had taken before are Smilacina racemosa, Asarum caudatum, and Zantedeschia aethiopica. You may be wondering why I have included the last one on a page devoted to geophytes found in coastal Northern California. It is naturalized here just like Amaryllis belladonna. Once you have it, you have more, especially if it arrives in seasonal wet places. We didn't have any Zantedeschias on our wiki yet and Zantedeschia aethiopica was some people's favorite white flowered bulb. When I made the Smilacina page I was interested to read how many places they are native with totally different rainfall patterns. I have a couple of patches in my garden of Smilacina stellata that expand each year and I am fond of the leaves. It stays green until some time in the fall and then disappears until February or March. So far I haven't gotten a Smilacina racemosa to germinate as I'd love to add it to my garden, but haven't always found berries the deer left. Bob took pictures of one in fruit last summer and I see I missed my chance to gather seed. We saw a pretty plant in bloom in a private garden in Scotland last May and I have added Bob's picture of it to the new wiki Smilacina page. It too is a challenge to photograph. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Smilacina Mary Sue From jshields104@insightbb.com Sat Apr 2 13:54:23 2005 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050402135401.02900150@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: More Noses Showing Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 13:54:21 -0500 Hi all, Besides the Indiana and Illinois Trillium nivale up and flowering here, I found some T. sessile poking their noses out of the ground today. One patch of T. recurvatum are also above ground already. The Galanthus are mostly past; a garden hybrid Primula cf. vulgaris is in flower; Fritillaria thunbergii is up in one spot and seems to have a flower bud, at long last. Fritillaria pallidiflora is starting to come up too. Lots of Iris reticulata cultivars have been in bloom the past week. Narcissus Tete a Tete, Rijnveld's Early Sensation, obvallaris, February Gold, Little Beauty, and asturiensis 'Giant'. Chionodoxa lucillae are in bloom everywhere. Corydallis are coming up, and solida 'Beth Evans' and 'George P. Baker' are already in bloom. Corydalis paczoskii and C. kusnetzovii are in bloom. Eranthus cilicia and Bulbocodium vernum are past. So Spring is making progress here in central Indiana! Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sat Apr 2 13:56:27 2005 Message-Id: <1df.38e6aff2.2f8044d6@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Falconet (and siblings) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 13:56:22 EST In a message dated 4/2/2005 11:02:20 AM Central Standard Time, pbs-DaveKarn@aol.com writes: > If you like 'Falconet,' you'll like several of the others in this class! > Its > siblings 'Hoopoe' (best grower), 'Radiant Gem' (deepest color), 'Mot Mot,' > and 'Sparkling Tarts.' (good color). 'Bright Spangles' and 'Bright Spot' (a > bit > larger than the others), 'Castanets' (a x w/'Grand Soleil d'Or' that does > better in milder climates), 'Explosion,' 'Martinette,' and 'Matador' > (itself, the > seed parent of these). Hi Gang, David, thanks for the tip on the other bulbs. I am always hesitant about buying plants that might not do well in winters with barely a frost. I looked up most of the names on the Web, it is interesting that so few are mentioned widely--perhaps there will be more information in specialized publications. Do you know if any of these come in earlier or later than Falconet? February Gold does OK here but seems sulky, it would be nice to have a fragrant and happy performer early on, as well as something a bit later than Falconet. Falconet is finishing now, and in 2-3 weeks it will likely be too hot for mots Narcissus flowers to hold up in less in mostly shady locations. You are right by the way, I sure do love the fragrance. Conroe Joe From DaveKarn@aol.com Sun Apr 3 22:02:10 2005 Message-Id: <87.24dba5a8.2f81fa20@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: REPLY2: Falconet (and siblings) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 22:02:08 EDT In a message dated 4/2/05 11:57:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ConroeJoe@aol.com writes: > I am always hesitant about buying plants that might not do well in winters > with barely a frost. I looked up most of the names on the Web, it is > interesting that so few are mentioned widely--perhaps there will be more information > in specialized publications. > > Do you know if any of these come in earlier or later than Falconet? > February > Gold does OK here but seems sulky, it would be nice to have a fragrant and > happy performer early on, as well as something a bit later than Falconet. > Joe ~ Hot and wet (as opposed to hot and dry) Summer climates can be death on daffodils as the bulbs will frequently succumb to fusarium fungi in the soil during dormancy. There are some, however, that tend to be less sensitive to this than many. The best of these are the jonquils (RHS Division 7). They seem to do well even as far south as central Florida, as do many of the tazettas. 'Falconet' and the others mentioned are a blend of both species. The three groups of daffodils with notable fragrance are the true jonquils (RHS Division 7), the tazettas (RHS Division 8) and poeticus (Division 9). Your best bets would be selections from these three groups. Fortunately, they are also the groups containing the most fragrant daffodils. The downside (for you) is that most of these bloom in the latter half of daffodil season. The exception is the tazetta group which has many that bloom in late Fall through the Winter months, e.g., Paper Whites, 'Avalanche,' N. italicus, and others. You just won't find many fragrant sorts that bloom early in the season. Interestingly, and after having said all that, I spent much of my career working on projects along the Gulf Coast (oil and petrochemical businesses) and I would find many daffodils each Spring that were not supposed to grow in this climate. Yet, there were others, e.g., italicus, that are vigorous and reliable growers. So, a final bit of advice, is to try some of the other daffodils from the Dutch suppliers that are usually available in the Fall almost everywhere or from the popular catalogs. They tend to be inexpensive (a benefit) but are usually the same ones each year (the downside). The upside is that they are so inexpensive that one can readily afford to treat them (and other Spring-flowering bulbs, e.g., tulips) as annuals and enjoy them the following Spring. If you do happen to find a site suited to them, they can be perennial, even in the Deep South. A visit to the web site of the American Daffodil Society http://daffodilusa.org/ will provide you with many leads, both for information of all sorts, as well as suppliers. Best, Dave Karnstedt From lwallpe@juno.com Sun Apr 3 23:10:38 2005 Message-Id: <20050403.200918.5555.186076@webmail25.lax.untd.com> From: "lwallpe@juno.com" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 27, Issue 3 Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 03:08:51 GMT Conroe Joe - Most, if not all, of the cultivars mentioned can be purchased at: Brent & Becky's Bulbs www.brentandbeckysbulbs.com Mitsch Daffodils www.web-ster.com/havens/mitsch Cherry Creek Daffodils 21700 S.W. Chapman Rd. Sherwood,OR 97140 Their catalogues should give indications of bloom time. There is a daffodil society in Texas. I'll bet they have a list of cultivars that do well in your climate. Linda Wallpe ============================== pbs-DaveKarn@aol.com writes: 'Hoopoe' (best grower), 'Radiant Gem' (deepest color), 'Mot Mot,' > and 'Sparkling Tarts.' (good color). 'Bright Spangles' and 'Bright Spot' (a bit > larger than the others), 'Castanets' (a x w/'Grand Soleil d'Or' that does better in milder climates), 'Explosion,' 'Martinette,' and 'Matador'(itself, the seed parent of these). Hi Gang, perhaps there will be more information in specialized publications. Conroe Joe ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! From msittner@mcn.org Mon Apr 4 01:38:35 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050403215105.01db20a0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: New on Wiki--more Moraeas and Aristea Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 22:18:17 -0700 Dear All, I finished adding more of Bob Werra's Moraea pictures to the wiki. I still have a number of native Fritillaria pictures, some Gladiolus, and some Romulea pictures of his to do. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Moraea%20species%20N-Z New pictures are of Moraea neopavonia (considered now to be M. tulbaghensis and quite striking), Moraea papilionacea, and a picture of Moraea tripetala. I can't believe how many weeks and blooms I got from the latter this year. I'm not sure whether it was our long dry warm spell, but something was to their liking. We had pictures on the wiki, but his picture give an idea of the plants, not just the flower and there were a lot blooming the same day. I also added a picture of my plants blooming one day recently just as it started to rain. I have added a couple of pictures of my second winter rainfall Aristea to bloom from seed, Aristea spiralis. It didn't stay in bloom very long, but it was very pretty and a nice shade of blue and I was thrilled when I saw the spike forming. I've had dismal luck growing Aristea from seed, which still seems surprising since A. ecklonii can reseed about in the garden. I now have a few plants of a number of species so am keeping my fingers crossed. I heard from Martin Grantham after writing our group before about my lack of success with seeds. We both had better luck with our own seed started in the fall after we harvesting our seed so fresh seed may be a help. My other plant which bloomed last spring took a long time for the seed to ripen so I didn't store it very long before it was time to plant it. John Ingram once reported better luck with spring planting and I wonder if that would have been because seed from the southern hemisphere could have been fresh. Martin was using GA3 in combination with a pure smoke concentrate sold by Kings Park BG in Australia which helped a bit and keeping his plants covered with plastic until they germinated. He was growing quite a few species. Maybe if he sees this message he will tell us if he has gotten his to bloom. Some of my seed pots that had zero germination the first year (planted in fall) had a couple of seeds germinate the second winter or spring. They are very tiny so still in the risky stage. There was really no difference between the pots I used the smoke packets I got from Silverhill versus those I did not. My plants seemed much happier once they got transplanted in the ground so I plan to do that with the others if they ever get big enough. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Aristea Mary Sue From Nancy.Gilbert@beale.af.mil Mon Apr 4 11:56:20 2005 Message-Id: <788ADF272F4A4E4891F6BB86894D239A81F5D3@fsbaey08> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC Subject: Mendocino Sonoma Coast Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 08:57:15 -0700 Thanks, Mary Sue. Really informative and lovely photos.-Nancy Gilbert -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Mary Sue Ittner Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 10:15 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Mendocino Sonoma Coast Dear All, Like Angelo I have made a wiki page to add all the geophytes that grow in the area where I live that I visit in the wild. I'm accumulating quite a few and have just added a few more that I photographed when Uli was here and a couple others I just hadn't gotten around to adding. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MendocinoSonomaCoast Seen with Uli this week: Erythronium californicum Fritillaria affinis Smilacina stellata Those three are all very hard to photograph and I think I'll always be trying to improve. They are usually found in the shade and two of them have white flowers which makes getting leaves and flowers in focus and not part of the picture washed out or too dark very hard. Fritillaria affinis on the stretch where we were walking you usually don't see unless the sun is highlighting it and then part is almost always in the sun and part in the shade. Plus in this spot it is surrounded by poison oak. Other pictures added Bob or I had taken before are Smilacina racemosa, Asarum caudatum, and Zantedeschia aethiopica. You may be wondering why I have included the last one on a page devoted to geophytes found in coastal Northern California. It is naturalized here just like Amaryllis belladonna. Once you have it, you have more, especially if it arrives in seasonal wet places. We didn't have any Zantedeschias on our wiki yet and Zantedeschia aethiopica was some people's favorite white flowered bulb. When I made the Smilacina page I was interested to read how many places they are native with totally different rainfall patterns. I have a couple of patches in my garden of Smilacina stellata that expand each year and I am fond of the leaves. It stays green until some time in the fall and then disappears until February or March. So far I haven't gotten a Smilacina racemosa to germinate as I'd love to add it to my garden, but haven't always found berries the deer left. Bob took pictures of one in fruit last summer and I see I missed my chance to gather seed. We saw a pretty plant in bloom in a private garden in Scotland last May and I have added Bob's picture of it to the new wiki Smilacina page. It too is a challenge to photograph. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Smilacina Mary Sue _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Mon Apr 4 14:09:40 2005 Message-Id: <20050404180939.46814.qmail@web50106.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Architecture Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 27, Issue 4 Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:09:39 -0700 (PDT) Mary Sue, My Aristea luck was limited to A. major forms. I was never able to keep any of the other species alive after they sprouted (if they sprouted at all). As you said, they were from Silverhill so the reversed seasons might have had something to do with it. But, I have sold or lost all of my major blue forms. The largest one was planted as a 4" 3-4 leaf seedling in a client's garden. It is now nearly 3' tall and really doing well. It is in an area that doesn't really get a lot of regular water. It is outside the spray of the sprinklers but I am sure the roots can reach down far enough to get to what comes from around it. The leaves are slightly twisted (one or two turns each) and looks great. I have one other seedling, from the same seed batch, that is still only 6" tall. It was planted with the others (that I have lost) in a 6 pack. I think from what I have been told by Cameron McMaster that I have let them dry out too much as seedlings. I guess they want constant moisture. Not what I was expecting but good to know. Now, all the major pink seedlings I had left on the 6" compot that they were sprouted in. I lost quite a few, probably from crowding and drying out. I divided them out a month ago and planted several in a clump into 1 gallon pots. I hope that with the rains that we have had and the slight amount of shade they are in has done them good. They seem to be holding on as of last night when I looked at them. I am hoping that these will be worthy garden plants here as ecklonii (as you said) is so easy and reseeds everywhere. Seedlings are hard to transplant though. I've lost a good percentage trying. Maybe I didn't work with the proper moon schedule. Live and learn. John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) From Ger.Stickroth@t-online.de Mon Apr 4 14:32:01 2005 Message-Id: <1DIWMa-0Nl4zo0@fwd33.sul.t-online.de> From: "Gerhard Stickroth" Subject: Dwarf Narcissus Date: 04 Apr 2005 18:31 GMT Hi, I am trying to get a list of dwarf narcissus. I know of the following ones: Sundisc, Jumblie,Hawera, Little Beauty and Mite. Do you know any others? Thank you. Regards Gerhard Stickroth, Bavaria, Z6/7 From arnold@nj.rr.com Mon Apr 4 18:31:00 2005 Message-Id: <4251C01E.3080906@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Dwarf Narcissus Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 18:30:54 -0400 Gerhard: I have attached a link from the American Daffodil Society where they have a Pdf file on miniature daffodils. http://daffodilusa.org/references/references.html Arnold From jimmckenney@starpower.net Mon Apr 4 22:00:05 2005 Message-Id: <3u3f9p$hq7g0@smtp04.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: "Bermudian snowdrop" Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 22:00:03 -0400 I picked up an inexpensive paperback copy of Margery Fish's We Made a Garden last weekend. She mentions something I've never seen mentioned elsewhere: Bermudian snowdrop. I have no idea what this could be. Does anyone know? Let's assume she did not mean Bermuda buttercup. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the combination of temperatures well up into the 60s F and brisk wind is turning out to be very off-putting. From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Tue Apr 5 04:47:47 2005 Message-Id: <001801c539bc$2416b530$71859b51@2CVEVE1> From: "Brian Whyer" Subject: "Bermudian snowdrop" Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:47:46 +0100 Jim I suggest you contact the present custodians of her house and garden. If anyone knows they should. http://www.eastlambrook.co.uk/html/contact_us.htm Alternatively Avon Bulbs who are nearby might know. http://www.avonbulbs.com/contact.html Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 Erythroniums trilliums and fritillarias now blooming, with narcissus 'Xit'...... > Subject: [pbs] "Bermudian snowdrop" > > I picked up an inexpensive paperback copy of Margery Fish's We Made a Garden > last weekend. She mentions something I've never seen mentioned elsewhere: > Bermudian snowdrop. > > I have no idea what this could be. Does anyone know? Let's assume she did > not mean Bermuda buttercup. > > Jim McKenney From Ger.Stickroth@t-online.de Wed Apr 6 02:24:58 2005 Message-Id: <1DJ3xw-0PhnSy0@fwd32.sul.t-online.de> From: "Gerhard Stickroth" Subject: Dwarf Narcissus Date: 06 Apr 2005 06:23 GMT Greetings, Thank you , Dave Karnstedt and Arnold Trachtenberg, for your tip. The American Daffodil Society provided excactly what I was looking for. Gerhard From jimmckenney@starpower.net Wed Apr 6 10:25:15 2005 Message-Id: <3u3gb7$k9v78@smtp05.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Tulipa polychroma et al. Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 10:25:13 -0400 Tulipa polychroma and Fritillaria uva-vulpis are blooming here today. So too is Sanguinaria canadensis and some of the self-sufficient Corydalis. Temperatures today are predicted to top 80 degrees F. I'm on a new computer lately, and in Microsoft Outlook. I've learned that I have to carefully re-read my posts because spell-check automatically "corrects" my botanical Latin: Tulipa polychroma became Tulipa polychrome, Sanguinaria canadensis became Sanguinaria Canadensis. Ain't technology great! Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where I'm apparently about to get a generous serving of fried bulbs today. From jimmckenney@starpower.net Wed Apr 6 10:53:00 2005 Message-Id: <3u3gb7$ka95v@smtp05.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: double flowered Galanthus nivalis Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 10:50:58 -0400 Yesterday I acquired a nice clump of a very full double-flowered Galanthus nivalis with very evenly disposed floral segments. Double-flowered Galanthus nivalis seem to vary a bit: some are full but very irregular, some are skimpy and very irregular and some are full and regular - to cite some of the possibilities. I've often wondered if growing conditions are not the main factor in causing these differences. The plants I just acquired came from a wet slick at the edge of an abandoned shrubbery - the sort of place where there is mud long after rains but which is dry in dry weather. I'm about to dig and rearrange the snowdrop plantings here, and am wondering if any of you can suggest snowdrop plantings in combination with other plants which you find especially attractive. One group of snowdrops is set to go under a beech tree in combination with Eranthis hyemalis. Ten other cultivars of which I have numerous plants I want to use in two opposite narrow borders where they will be very conspicuous when in bloom. In fact, I would like to plan for an eventual snowdrop garden, perhaps in the narrow borders of a 13' x30' space I call my sunk garden. The sunk garden planting will include Helleborus foetidus. How are others growing their snowdrops? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the last of the snowdrops still show a bit of color but don't bear close inspection - and the first of "our" toads began to trill softly today. From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Wed Apr 6 11:57:51 2005 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: Lachenalia Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:02:23 -0300 I have an unknown Lachenalia that I have had for years. It is a single bulb, the others that arrived with it just rotted away. It has multiple wavy-edged leaves, some of which it keeps all winter (indoors in Canada) and a spread of about 8", height 6-7". It suddenly decided to bloom and the grayish-green bud stem is still closed not having cleared the leaves yet. Been like that for weeks. I will try to identify it when it blooms, or post a pic if I cannot. Can't seem to find a match for it on the wikki. In the meantime, do I feed the thing? It is in a 6" pot in a sunny window and (finally) seems quite happy. Thanks, Rand From jimmckenney@starpower.net Wed Apr 6 12:42:16 2005 Message-Id: <3u3f9p$ifc6a@smtp04.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Miss Euphemia Jessopp's crocus - and rosemary! Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:42:14 -0400 Earlier this year I enjoyed the flowering of Crocus jessoppiae. This crocus, generally thought to be of hybrid origin, was named by E.A.Bowles for a neighbor who raised it from seed supplied by Bowles. The small white flowers are not likely to create much of a stir except in the heart of the confirmed crocomane. My corms came from Jane McGary, and I'm glad to have them. Here in the Washington, D.C. area we have an old, local firm which grows and sells herbs, De Baggio's Herb Farm & Nursery as they now call themselves. Their annual catalog arrived today, and while I was looking over the offerings, noticed the rosemary Miss Jessopp's Upright Rosemary. They have offered this cultivar in the past, but this year I saw it in a new light. According to the herb catalog, this rosemary was introduced by E. A. Bowles and named for this same Euphemia Jessopp. Soon I expect to have two plants commemorating Miss Euphemia Jessopp in the garden. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 where I hope the presence of two plants commemorating someone named Euphemia will have everyone speaking well of my garden (and is it asking too much that they mean it?). From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Wed Apr 6 16:42:39 2005 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Lachenalia Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 20:42:37 +0000 >From: Rand Nicholson >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: Pacific Bulb Society >CC: BULBS-L@NIC.SURFNET.NL >Subject: [pbs] Lachenalia >Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:02:23 -0300 > >I have an unknown Lachenalia that I have had for years. It is a single >bulb, the others that arrived with it just rotted away. It has multiple >wavy-edged leaves, some of which it keeps all winter (indoors in Canada) >and a spread of about 8", height 6-7". It suddenly decided to bloom and the >grayish-green bud stem is still closed not having cleared the leaves yet. >Been like that for weeks. I will try to identify it when it blooms, or post >a pic if I cannot. Can't seem to find a match for it on the wikki. > >In the meantime, do I feed the thing? It is in a 6" pot in a sunny window >and (finally) seems quite happy. > >Thanks, > >Rand Dear Rand: It sounds more like Chlorogalum pomeridianum than a species of Lachenalia. No, do not feed it until the seed setting is over. The period in which a winter or spring flowering bulbs is voracious is after the flower is produced until the leaves are drying off. There is another previous period in which it uses proper food and it is that between the root production and the emergence of the first leaf in Autumn. Use something high in potassium and with low or no nitrogen. Regards Alberto in the pampas of Argentina . _________________________________________________________________ MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/ From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Wed Apr 6 16:43:45 2005 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Lachenalia Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 20:43:44 +0000 >From: Rand Nicholson >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: Pacific Bulb Society >CC: BULBS-L@NIC.SURFNET.NL >Subject: [pbs] Lachenalia >Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:02:23 -0300 > >I have an unknown Lachenalia that I have had for years. It is a single >bulb, the others that arrived with it just rotted away. It has multiple >wavy-edged leaves, some of which it keeps all winter (indoors in Canada) >and a spread of about 8", height 6-7". It suddenly decided to bloom and the >grayish-green bud stem is still closed not having cleared the leaves yet. >Been like that for weeks. I will try to identify it when it blooms, or post >a pic if I cannot. Can't seem to find a match for it on the wikki. > >In the meantime, do I feed the thing? It is in a 6" pot in a sunny window >and (finally) seems quite happy. > >Thanks, > >Rand Dear Rand: It sounds more like Chlorogalum pomeridianum than a species of Lachenalia. No, do not feed it until the seed setting is over. The period in which a winter or spring flowering bulbs is voracious is after the flower is produced until the leaves are drying off. There is another previous period in which it uses proper food and it is that between the root production and the emergence of the first leaf in Autumn. Use something high in potassium and with low or no nitrogen. Regards Alberto in the pampas of Argentina . _________________________________________________________________ MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/ From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Wed Apr 6 16:45:01 2005 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Lachenalia Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 20:45:00 +0000 >From: Rand Nicholson >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: Pacific Bulb Society >CC: BULBS-L@NIC.SURFNET.NL >Subject: [pbs] Lachenalia >Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:02:23 -0300 > >I have an unknown Lachenalia that I have had for years. It is a single >bulb, the others that arrived with it just rotted away. It has multiple >wavy-edged leaves, some of which it keeps all winter (indoors in Canada) >and a spread of about 8", height 6-7". It suddenly decided to bloom and the >grayish-green bud stem is still closed not having cleared the leaves yet. >Been like that for weeks. I will try to identify it when it blooms, or post >a pic if I cannot. Can't seem to find a match for it on the wikki. > >In the meantime, do I feed the thing? It is in a 6" pot in a sunny window >and (finally) seems quite happy. > >Thanks, > >Rand Dear Rand: It sounds more like Chlorogalum pomeridianum than a species of Lachenalia. No, do not feed it until the seed setting is over. The period in which a winter or spring flowering bulbs is voracious is after the flower is produced until the leaves are drying off. There is another previous period in which it uses proper food and it is that between the root production and the emergence of the first leaf in Autumn. Use something high in potassium and with low or no nitrogen. Regards Alberto in the pampas of Argentina . _________________________________________________________________ MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/ From mark@marksgardenplants.com Wed Apr 6 17:02:07 2005 Message-Id: <006901c53aeb$e7b595d0$43559851@markp5xpcz3p3u> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: snowdrops Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:02:12 +0100 > How are others growing their snowdrops? all over now for the 2004/5 season. Mark N Ireland From merrill@gamblegarden.org Wed Apr 6 18:51:50 2005 Message-Id: <20050406225149.CE5443C31F@cmlapp25.siteprotect.com> From: "Merrill Jensen" Subject: snowdrops Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:51:48 -0700 Hi All, I've grown snowdrops in various locations over the last 25 years. They have done well in Eastern Washington (zone 6), SW Idaho (zone 6/7) and the Willamette Valley (zone 8) in Oregon. I've always had them where they get full spring sun where they can take advantage of the warming rays to bloom, but by the time they are done, other plant material has grown up to disguise the drying foliage. I have also grown everything that is commercially available with equal results despite differing soil types in the different locations. Conditions ranged from a pH of 8.2 with heavy clay in Idaho to a 5.4, wonderful humus filled loam in Oregon. My favorite has been G. nivalis 'Viridi-apice' and the least; G. nivalis 'Flore Pleno' (look like over blown bloomers...). In every location, I could count on them to start blooming the last week in January, with some minor variation due to snows. They all colonized well and were one of my favorites, next to species tulips. Eight months ago, I relocated to the Bay Area where they don't receive enough of a winter chill, so am forced to explore the wide, wonderful world of South African geophytes.... Damn.... Merrill Jensen Director of Horticulture Elizabeth F. Gamble Garden 1431 Waverley Street Palo Alto, CA 94301 www.gamblegarden.org Zone 9/10, where tulips are expensive annuals and Chasmanthe are weeds -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Mark Smyth Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 2:02 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] snowdrops > How are others growing their snowdrops? all over now for the 2004/5 season. Mark N Ireland _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jimmckenney@starpower.net Wed Apr 6 19:38:45 2005 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20050406193950.00b08580@pop.starpower.net> From: Jim McKenney Subject: snowdrops Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:39:50 -0400 Merrill Jensen wrote >so am forced to explore the wide, wonderful world of South >African geophytes What a terrible affliction, Merrill, you have my sympathy. Jim McKenney > From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Thu Apr 7 03:25:43 2005 Message-Id: <014a01c53b43$00f522c0$84ec403e@John> From: Subject: snowdrops Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 05:56:38 +0100 The Bay Area of California is not entirely hopeless for snowdrops: Wayne Roderick once took me to see a garden full of naturalised Galanthus elwesii not far from his home in Orinda. I know that this is is on a ridge-top and that Palo Alto is lower, but it was a remarkable sight. We have still got about 6 individual snowdrop flowers open here at Colesbourne, belated secondary flowers of no beauty, but still there. John Grimshaw John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 Mobile 07 919 840 063 Fax (Estate Office) 01242 870541 Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merrill Jensen" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:51 PM Subject: RE: [pbs] snowdrops > Hi All, > > . Eight > months ago, I relocated to the Bay Area where they don't receive enough of a > winter chill, so am forced to explore the wide, wonderful world of South > African geophytes.... Damn.... > > Merrill Jensen > Director of Horticulture > Elizabeth F. Gamble Garden > 1431 Waverley Street > Palo Alto, CA 94301 > www.gamblegarden.org From samclan@redshift.com Thu Apr 7 01:12:46 2005 Message-Id: <4254C1CC.6020102@redshift.com> From: Shirley Meneice Subject: snowdrops Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:14:52 -0700 Don't give up entirely. G. nivalis and G. elwesii both have been doing well for me in Pebble Beach, especially the latter. They don't make large, wonderful colonies, but what I have planted have persisted and arrived in January to brighten up what I hope will be a gray, wet winter landscape. Welcome to a garden we on the central Calif. coast all enjoy. Shirley Meneice Merrill Jensen wrote: >Hi All, > >I've grown snowdrops in various locations over the last 25 years. They have >done well in Eastern Washington (zone 6), SW Idaho (zone 6/7) and the >Willamette Valley (zone 8) in Oregon. I've always had them where they get >full spring sun where they can take advantage of the warming rays to bloom, >but by the time they are done, other plant material has grown up to disguise >the drying foliage. I have also grown everything that is commercially >available with equal results despite differing soil types in the different >locations. Conditions ranged from a pH of 8.2 with heavy clay in Idaho to a >5.4, wonderful humus filled loam in Oregon. My favorite has been G. nivalis >'Viridi-apice' and the least; G. nivalis 'Flore Pleno' (look like over blown >bloomers...). In every location, I could count on them to start blooming >the last week in January, with some minor variation due to snows. They all >colonized well and were one of my favorites, next to species tulips. Eight >months ago, I relocated to the Bay Area where they don't receive enough of a >winter chill, so am forced to explore the wide, wonderful world of South >African geophytes.... Damn.... > >Merrill Jensen >Director of Horticulture >Elizabeth F. Gamble Garden >1431 Waverley Street >Palo Alto, CA 94301 >www.gamblegarden.org > >Zone 9/10, where tulips are expensive annuals and Chasmanthe are weeds > >-----Original Message----- >From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] >On Behalf Of Mark Smyth >Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 2:02 PM >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: [pbs] snowdrops > > > >>How are others growing their snowdrops? >> >> > >all over now for the 2004/5 season. > >Mark >N Ireland > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.4 - Release Date: 4/6/05 From dejager@bulbargence.com Thu Apr 7 03:49:18 2005 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Feeding bulbs (was Lachenalia) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:48:02 +0100 Dear Alberto, I always read your comments with much intererest. But I feel that this statement needs qualifying a bit more, as it is a very interesting aspect when it concerns "bulbs". Plants only use minerals when there is chlorophytic activity. As for applying nutrients at the beginning of the cycle: the plants will not use them, as long as they have no leaves. The plant uses its reserves to create its structure. When the reserves become low, the plant should have sufficient leaves to enable rebuilding its reserves by absorbing minerals. When flowering takes place at the end of the cycle, leaves tend to disintegrate and assimilation of minerals stops. In that case there is little point of feeding the plant. I look forward to hear, what the plant physiologists amongst will think. Kind regards le 6/04/05 21:42, Alberto Castillo à ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com a écrit : > No, do not feed it until the seed setting is over. The period > in which a winter or spring flowering bulbs is voracious is after the flower > is produced until the leaves are drying off. There is another previous > period in which it uses proper food and it is that between the root > production and the emergence of the first leaf in Autumn. Use something high > in potassium and with low or no nitrogen. Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence Mas d'Argence 30300 Fourques France tel 31(0)466 016 519 fax 0466 011 245 http://www.bulbargence.com From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Thu Apr 7 07:47:53 2005 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: Feeding bulbs (was Lachenalia) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 08:42:35 -0300 Dear Lauw: How does this work with a bulb that has produced a flush of leaves and is sending up a bloom stalk? I have had two somewhat different responses to this, concerning my mystery Lachenalia. Rand >Dear Alberto, >I always read your comments with much intererest. >But I feel that this statement needs qualifying a bit more, as it is a very >interesting aspect when it concerns "bulbs". > Plants only use minerals when there is chlorophytic activity. > As for applying nutrients at the beginning of the cycle: the plants will >not use them, as long as they have no leaves. The plant uses its reserves to >create its structure. When the reserves become low, the plant should have >sufficient leaves to enable rebuilding its reserves by absorbing minerals. >When flowering takes place at the end of the cycle, leaves tend to >disintegrate and assimilation of minerals stops. In that case there is >little point of feeding the plant. >I look forward to hear, what the plant physiologists amongst will think. >Kind regards > > le 6/04/05 21:42, Alberto Castillo à ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com a écrit : >> No, do not feed it until the seed setting is over. The period >> in which a winter or spring flowering bulbs is voracious is after the flower >> is produced until the leaves are drying off. There is another previous >> period in which it uses proper food and it is that between the root >> production and the emergence of the first leaf in Autumn. Use something high >> in potassium and with low or no nitrogen. > >Lauw de Jager >Bulb'Argence >Mas d'Argence >30300 Fourques France >tel 31(0)466 016 519 fax 0466 011 245 >http://www.bulbargence.com > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Thu Apr 7 07:58:24 2005 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: Lachenalia Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:02:54 -0300 Dear Alberto: > > >Dear Rand: > It sounds more like Chlorogalum pomeridianum than a species of Lachenalia. (snip) > >Regards >Alberto >in the pampas of Argentina Some of the online pics of Chlorogalum do look quite like my plant, especially the broader leafed type, but no. The bulb does not have a "hairy" coat when dry out-of-pot and the leaves are not prostrate, but erect and spreading. Having seen the blooms of Chlorogalum, however, I rather wish it were one. Rand In The Great White North From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Thu Apr 7 08:19:49 2005 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: OT [was :Feeding bulbs (was Lachenalia)] Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:24:22 -0300 All: My apologies to the PBS List and Lauw de Jager for the double post saying the same thing, phrased differently. Obviously, there are people in this world who should *finish* drinking their morning coffee before attempting anything as complex as written communication and/or pushing a button. I am chagrined to find that I am one of them. Kind Regards, RandRand On His SecondSecond Cup Of Coffee In Some Misty Canadian Time Zone By-The-Sea >Dear Lauw: > >How does this work with a bulb that has produced a flush of leaves and is sending up a bloom stalk? What I draw from the responses concerning my mystery Lachenalia is that the bulb needs little or no feeding, aside from a yearly repotting. > >Rand > > > >>Dear Alberto, >>I always read your comments with much intererest. >>But I feel that this statement needs qualifying a bit more, as it is a very >>interesting aspect when it concerns "bulbs". >> Plants only use minerals when there is chlorophytic activity. >> As for applying nutrients at the beginning of the cycle: the plants will >>not use them, as long as they have no leaves. The plant uses its reserves to >>create its structure. When the reserves become low, the plant should have >>sufficient leaves to enable rebuilding its reserves by absorbing minerals. >>When flowering takes place at the end of the cycle, leaves tend to >>disintegrate and assimilation of minerals stops. In that case there is >>little point of feeding the plant. >>I look forward to hear, what the plant physiologists amongst will think. >>Kind regards > > > >-- >Rand Nicholson >Zone 5b Eastern Maritime Canada >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jglatt@ptd.net Thu Apr 7 08:39:07 2005 Message-Id: <425529EF.9000504@ptd.net> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: fertilizing bulbs Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 08:39:11 -0400 And what about bulbs that do not synchronize flower and leaf production? The majority of colchicum for example - flowering must draw on stored food reserves. These reserves then, are not replenished until leaves grow the following spring. And the clever colchicums also wait until spring to produce their seeds, when food reserves are re-supplied. Judy in New Jersey where yesterday's sunshine and 70° Fahrenheit temperatures were uncomfortably warm for hard work in the garden. That's O.K. - today is overcast and more rain forecast. This after last weekend's flooding of the Delaware River, bridge closings, wet basements, and other such soggy happenings. From merrill@gamblegarden.org Thu Apr 7 10:57:37 2005 Message-Id: <20050407145736.97AC83C929@cmlapp25.siteprotect.com> From: "Merrill Jensen" Subject: fertilizing bulbs Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:57:34 -0700 I've always followed the "Observe, Deduce, Apply" method of fertilization in these cases. No foliage, no fertilizer. I have applied any good organic fertilizer just when the new leaves start to nose out of the ground. This has worked well in the past and I'll do this with my new South African friend, Amaryllis belladonna... Merrill in Palo Alto where it is 60 and soggy again. I feel like I never left Oregon... -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Judy Glattstein Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 5:39 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] fertilizing bulbs And what about bulbs that do not synchronize flower and leaf production? The majority of colchicum for example - flowering must draw on stored food reserves. These reserves then, are not replenished until leaves grow the following spring. And the clever colchicums also wait until spring to produce their seeds, when food reserves are re-supplied. Judy in New Jersey where yesterday's sunshine and 70° Fahrenheit temperatures were uncomfortably warm for hard work in the garden. That's O.K. - today is overcast and more rain forecast. This after last weekend's flooding of the Delaware River, bridge closings, wet basements, and other such soggy happenings. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Thu Apr 7 11:01:20 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050407073354.02a51780@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Lachenalia mystery plant Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 08:01:57 -0700 Hi, I am always surprised when people can identify a plant by only a few sentences when I struggle with a plant in front of me and several books and a key. Years ago Will Ashburner said he never assumed a plant was what it was named to be until he verified it. I have learned over the years that so many things I've grown from plant exchanges and sometimes even from what I consider reliable sources are sometimes wrong. It is easy enough to pass on the wrong name of a plant if you got it from someone you trusted who got it from someone they trusted who got it...Well you get the point. So I always try to verify my plants if I have time and I don't always find it easy. I've been working on a Romulea that the scrub jays have made more difficult by removing the original tag. In the case of Romulea you really need to look at the corm to be sure and I'm reluctant to dig it up since for a few hours every day when it is warm enough this plant is covered with open flowers and quite charming even though the flowers are small. Three or four days after I had given up and written down three possibilities I could check when I look at the corms when dormant another pot with a tag bloomed that looks exactly like the first one. Both of these are first bloom from seed and have different names. In this case I was pleased to see that the name of the second pot was one of the three I thought the first one could be. One is probably wrong unless their corms are different. Even pictures sometimes can be misleading since you often have no idea of the size of anything. There are Lachenalias with wavy leaves. Look at the pictures on the wiki that Bob took of ones that Alan Horstmann was growing. Lachenalia violacea can have wavy leaves. Lachenalia is a challenge to photograph since it is difficult to get both leaves and flowers in focus unless you are far enough away and then you can't see the detail very well. If you have Graham Duncan's book a lot of the pictures of the flowers look similar and the book don't always include leaves which could help I'm sure for the reasons I mentioned. One of the Lachenalia experts in our group has offered to help identify Rand's plant if he will put a picture on the wiki. Chlorogalum usually blooms in the summer. It would be a bit early for it to bloom I'd think. It has a funny growth period, going dormant in the fall for a few months and then resuming growth when it starts raining again although you can accelerate that a bit by watering (like if you want someone to buy a plant at a plant sale that would otherwise not be in growth and therefore unlikely to be purchased.) I suppose that since Rand's plant is growing indoors that could change things. I've no idea what triggers it into flowering. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Thu Apr 7 12:09:13 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050407090725.029c0c90@mail.mcn.org> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Flowering Dates -Erythroniums Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:08:51 -0700 Hi All, We are hoping to get away for a few days soon to photograph Erythroniums in the Siskiyous region and also northern California coastal locations such as Dyerville, Gasquet. I am wondering if the fowering dates this season are running early, on-time or perhaps a bit delayed by all the recent rain? Any help targeting bloom dates this year will be much appreciated. Thanks. NANCY GILBERT Grass Valley, CA. From parsont@peak.org Thu Apr 7 12:06:23 2005 Message-Id: <4254F9F9.21210.8AB101@localhost> From: "Louise Parsons" Subject: Snowdrops Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:14:33 -0700 >>>>> How are others growing their snowdrops?>>>>> I tend to give snowdrops (and most other bulbs) their own space. Being a somewhat of a nature freak, I don't mind the looks of the dying foliage or bare earth later on. The foliage is so temporary and easily tidied up when it is ready. Most of my snowdrops grow in raised beds of native soil (excellent silt loam with natural duff) under a high canopy of firs. They do receive good spring sun. In late spring, nearby ferns will partially cover the bare spots without causing conflicts that I have found with "bulb covers" or intergrowths. Cyclamens and dwarf ferns planted at the edges also provide interest. My scheme is not entirely practical when I plant a few ferns, such as Pyrrosia polydactyla, that requires a bit of extra hand-watering in the high summer. Still, I enjoy that task. It gives me the opportunity to do something relaxing enough to actually contemplate and enjoy plants. I love the natural look of certain plant intergrowths and do sometimes create them deliberately, but it can be a challenge to weed. Also one plant will sooner or later reach a dominating stage. In one bed, I tried some forms of Anemone nemorosa, but they were beginning to "bully", so they now have their own space away from the snowdrops. It isn't that snowdrops won't stand root competition; they do fine under many shrubs and fairly aggressive trees. However, if we have a long rainy spring, too much herbage can cause problems with rot and disease AND provide a place for slugs to hide. I wish that there were more US sources for snowdrops. It is so frustrating that so many of the finest nurseries overseas no longer ship to the US. I can't really blame them either. It is expensive and a hassle. Heronswood nursery generally has a nice selection in pots on their open nursery days. Anyone know of other sources with a wide selection that will ship to the US? I wish that there was an international snowdrop society where we could list and trade material. :) Trilliums and erythroniums are in full swing. E. 'White Beauty' has gone crazy here. Fiddleheads are unfurling. Bordering Cyclamen repandum is livening up the snowdrop areas with its large, hot-colored, blooms. The continuing Oregon rain is very welcome! Cheers, Louise Corvallis Oregon From msittner@mcn.org Thu Apr 7 12:16:03 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050407091140.02ad2b90@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Flowering Dates -Erythroniums Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:16:46 -0700 Dear Nancy, Hopefully someone will know about this location although since I'm planning a trip to see flowers after tax season I have found you can find a lot of helpful information online. Sometimes local CNPS groups have postings about what is blooming at the time in their areas. I know ours does. As for our local wildflowers they are about on target for this time of the year, meaning that they are in the beginning stages. The Erythoniums I saw last week were in their later stages however and some years they have been in bloom mid April. Lilium maritimum which can be in bloom late May is well up and developing buds which is early. It's possible the early dry warm weather was as much a factor for them as the recent rains. Perhaps it is different for bulbs than it is for annuals. Mary Sue From Nancy.Gilbert@beale.af.mil Thu Apr 7 12:25:51 2005 Message-Id: <788ADF272F4A4E4891F6BB86894D239A81F602@fsbaey08> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC Subject: Flowering Dates -Erythroniums Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:27:05 -0700 Thanks Mary Sue. I talked with the ranger at Gasquet and we are right on for E. revolutum. --Nancy -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Mary Sue Ittner Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 9:17 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Flowering Dates -Erythroniums Dear Nancy, Hopefully someone will know about this location although since I'm planning a trip to see flowers after tax season I have found you can find a lot of helpful information online. Sometimes local CNPS groups have postings about what is blooming at the time in their areas. I know ours does. As for our local wildflowers they are about on target for this time of the year, meaning that they are in the beginning stages. The Erythoniums I saw last week were in their later stages however and some years they have been in bloom mid April. Lilium maritimum which can be in bloom late May is well up and developing buds which is early. It's possible the early dry warm weather was as much a factor for them as the recent rains. Perhaps it is different for bulbs than it is for annuals. Mary Sue _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From arnold@nj.rr.com Thu Apr 7 13:40:32 2005 Message-Id: <2dbc6742db911f.2db911f2dbc674@rdc-nyc.rr.com> From: arnold@nj.rr.com Subject: Snowdrops Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:40:29 -0400 Louise; I know there is a seller of snowdrops in NY State. It is called Temple Nursery. I have not purchased from him but I know that he has a catalog. When I get home I'll send in the address if I still have one of his old catalogs. Or someone else may have the info at hand. Arnold From khixson@nu-world.com Thu Apr 7 16:11:31 2005 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20050407124713.02823c60@mail.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: fertilizing bulbs Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:11:15 -0700 Hi, members Fertilizing any plant is a complicated matter--your soil, its pH, what minerals are present, the mineral needs of the particular plant you are growing, moisture levels in the soil, temperature, the stage of growth of the plant, etc. all interacting. > No foliage, no fertilizer. I have applied any good organic >fertilizer just when the new leaves start to nose out of the ground. If what you are doing works, continue. But remember when fertilizing bulbs, you are feeding the bulb, and the effect will be shown in next year's plant, with only minor effects on this year's plant. All the minerals for this year's plant are already in the bulb. There are numerous studies of which minerals are taken up by bulbs, and at what times. It is very easy to be mislead, because the mineral levels in the upper leaves of an easter lily for instance, will be different than the mineral levels in the lower, older leaves on the same stems. And, as the season draws to a close, minerals are translocated out of the leaves down to the bulb. An excess of one mineral may cause another needed mineral to become unavailable, and this can change with the pH. Different species or hybrids, even in the genus Lilium for instance, use minerals at different times, and "one size fits all" does not apply. Species which grow their roots at a different season than their foliage, have nutrient needs at a time you may not expect. When using organic fertilizers, it should be remembered that their nutrient content is released more slowly, as the fertilizer is decomposed by soil microorganisms, so applying the fertilizer needs to be done far enough in advance that the decomposition can be accomplished before the minerals are needed by the plant.....then you need to be sure it won't be taken up by some other plant or otherwise tied up, before the targeted plant can use it. What I'm really saying is, I can tell you what works for me, but it may not work for you, growing the same plant under other conditions, and you may be just polluting the ground to apply a fertilizer when the plant can't use it. Comments from elsewhere need to be regarded as a guide, not a "cookbook" that can be blindly followed. Ken From merrill@gamblegarden.org Thu Apr 7 17:53:12 2005 Message-Id: <20050407215311.8DA273C984@cmlapp25.siteprotect.com> From: "Merrill Jensen" Subject: fertilizing bulbs Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:53:10 -0700 Hey everybody, Ken has hit the nail on the head with "ones size fits all" does not apply to all cases or regions. That is where the beauty of "Observe, Deduce, Apply" comes in. If you are paying attention to the volumes of information that our plants are telling us, and taking that information along with all that we have picked up with years of growing, you will easily see what will work in your particular instance. That is why I take cultural information as a guideline and adapt it to the local growing conditions (soil type, pH, exposure, water quality...) to give the 'kids' the best chance to grow and give us pleasure. Sometimes it is impossible to meet the cultural conditions due to environmental constraints (like trying to grow Meconopsis in the Desert SW), so we move on to a plant pallet that will be more conducive to where we hang our hat. For ODA to truly work (and it does in numerous endeavors) one must have a sense of place that comes with time. If you are short on time, track down the locals that have had time to observe and quiz them relentlessly to find what you are looking for. We garden for a reason, and vast volumes have been published with 'how to' information. But if you are not getting your fingers dirty, all that knowledge for naught... Merrill Palo Alto, CA zone 9/10, where the learning curve is going straight up... -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Kenneth Hixson Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:11 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: RE: [pbs] fertilizing bulbs Hi, members Fertilizing any plant is a complicated matter--your soil, its pH, what minerals are present, the mineral needs of the particular plant you are growing, moisture levels in the soil, temperature, the stage of growth of the plant, etc. all interacting. > No foliage, no fertilizer. I have applied any good organic >fertilizer just when the new leaves start to nose out of the ground. If what you are doing works, continue. But remember when fertilizing bulbs, you are feeding the bulb, and the effect will be shown in next year's plant, with only minor effects on this year's plant. All the minerals for this year's plant are already in the bulb. There are numerous studies of which minerals are taken up by bulbs, and at what times. It is very easy to be mislead, because the mineral levels in the upper leaves of an easter lily for instance, will be different than the mineral levels in the lower, older leaves on the same stems. And, as the season draws to a close, minerals are translocated out of the leaves down to the bulb. An excess of one mineral may cause another needed mineral to become unavailable, and this can change with the pH. Different species or hybrids, even in the genus Lilium for instance, use minerals at different times, and "one size fits all" does not apply. Species which grow their roots at a different season than their foliage, have nutrient needs at a time you may not expect. When using organic fertilizers, it should be remembered that their nutrient content is released more slowly, as the fertilizer is decomposed by soil microorganisms, so applying the fertilizer needs to be done far enough in advance that the decomposition can be accomplished before the minerals are needed by the plant.....then you need to be sure it won't be taken up by some other plant or otherwise tied up, before the targeted plant can use it. What I'm really saying is, I can tell you what works for me, but it may not work for you, growing the same plant under other conditions, and you may be just polluting the ground to apply a fertilizer when the plant can't use it. Comments from elsewhere need to be regarded as a guide, not a "cookbook" that can be blindly followed. Ken _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Thu Apr 7 18:26:54 2005 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: fertilizing bulbs Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 19:31:26 -0300 Hi All; From experience, I wholeheartedly agree with what Ken has said, although I must confess to only a vague notion as to what a plant is doing with nutrients and when. Like many of us, much of my experience comes through, sometimes painstaking, trial and error, or the kindnesses of others. Having said that: what do experienced Lachenalia growers do with their plants regarding culture? By the way, this one spends spring, summer and fall out doors and is well acquainted with frost. I am certain it could not take a true hard Canadian frost, but it has survived unexpected hoar frosts without major damage, retaining a significant portion of its leaves. It still has two from last year, splitting up the middle as the bulb expands. Although any notes were lost in my rather hurried move last March, for some reason I keep thinking that this bulb was on a South African schedule and one of the reasons that I lost the other bulbs was through my efforts to "switch" them to a North American season - something which it looks like I have achieved (if, indeed, that is what I was attempting to do). Rand >Hi, members > Fertilizing any plant is a complicated matter--your soil, its pH, >what minerals are present, the mineral needs of the particular plant you >are growing, moisture levels in the soil, temperature, the stage of growth >of the plant, etc. all interacting. > >> No foliage, no fertilizer. I have applied any good organic >>fertilizer just when the new leaves start to nose out of the ground. > > If what you are doing works, continue. But remember when >fertilizing bulbs, you are feeding the bulb, and the effect will be shown >in next year's plant, with only minor effects on this year's plant. All >the minerals for this year's plant are already in the bulb. There are >numerous studies of which minerals are taken up by bulbs, and at >what times. It is very easy to be mislead, because the mineral levels >in the upper leaves of an easter lily for instance, will be different than >the mineral levels in the lower, older leaves on the same stems. And, >as the season draws to a close, minerals are translocated out of the >leaves down to the bulb. An excess of one mineral may cause another >needed mineral to become unavailable, and this can change with the pH. > Different species or hybrids, even in the genus Lilium for instance, >use minerals at different times, and "one size fits all" does not apply. >Species which grow their roots at a different season than their foliage, >have nutrient needs at a time you may not expect. > When using organic fertilizers, it should be remembered that >their nutrient content is released more slowly, as the fertilizer is >decomposed by soil microorganisms, so applying the fertilizer needs >to be done far enough in advance that the decomposition can be >accomplished before the minerals are needed by the plant.....then you >need to be sure it won't be taken up by some other plant or otherwise >tied up, before the targeted plant can use it. > What I'm really saying is, I can tell you what works for me, but >it may not work for you, growing the same plant under other conditions, >and you may be just polluting the ground to apply a fertilizer when the >plant can't use it. Comments from elsewhere need to be regarded as >a guide, not a "cookbook" that can be blindly followed. > >Ken >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Thu Apr 7 19:21:00 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050407162112.02ac6280@mail.mcn.org> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Dichelostemma capitatum Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 16:21:43 -0700 Greetings, We have recently had a person from Southern British Columbia inquire about whether or not Dichelostemma Capitatum would do well in their climate (planted in the ground, not in pots). The climate at this site is similar to Seattle, WA. Since this is out of Blue Dicks native range and the rainfall is quite high, I am wondering if anyone living up that way would share their experience with growing this species in their garderns or meadows, and if it will naturalize or not,if you need to amend the soil for better drainage, etc. Thanks for any advice. NANCY GILBERT Grass Valley, California From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Thu Apr 7 21:04:44 2005 Message-Id: <002201c53bd6$f293f4b0$e5d9f7a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Lachenalia mystery plant Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:04:41 -0700 In the Lachenalia vs. Chlorogalum I don't think size was mentioned. A blooming-size Chlorogalum would be about three or four times the size of any Lachenalia I have grown. Chlorogalum angustifolium is small, but the leaves are not wavy and are narrow. Diana From chadschroter@yahoo.com Thu Apr 7 21:06:08 2005 Message-Id: <20050408010607.75767.qmail@web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Chad Schroter Subject: Lachenalia mystery plant Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:06:07 -0700 (PDT) More and more this Lach is sounding like a small Veltheimia bractea... Chad Schroter --- diana chapman wrote: > In the Lachenalia vs. Chlorogalum I don't think size was mentioned. > A > blooming-size Chlorogalum would be about three or four times the size > of any > Lachenalia I have grown. Chlorogalum angustifolium is small, but the > leaves > are not wavy and are narrow. > > Diana > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Personals - Better first dates. More second dates. http://personals.yahoo.com From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Apr 7 22:25:11 2005 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Dichelostemma capitatum Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 19:26:36 -0700 It depends where in southern British Columbia your questioner lives. I live there, in the rainshadow of the Olympic Mountains, where we get 27 inches of rain a year, and there are native cactus growing on various small islands. However, a few hours drive away on the west coast of Vancouver Island, gardeners enjoy frost-free conditions and well over 10 times the rain I get. I am in Blue Dick country right now, and bought a lot of seeds of various California wildflowers at Tilden Botanic Garden. I will know in a few years whether Blue Dicks will grow for me. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada From msittner@mcn.org Thu Apr 7 23:10:24 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050407195745.033d2360@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Lachenalia mystery plant Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:01:41 -0700 Dear Rand, I'm sure we all would love to see the leaves of the plant you are talking about. Most Lachenalias do not like frost and there is only one species I grow that does not go completely dormant in the summer. Lachenalias even grow new roots every year. When you said "It still has two from last year, splitting up the middle as the bulb expands" when last year are you talking about? Can you take a picture of this to add to the wiki? Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Thu Apr 7 23:10:26 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050407200148.033d52e0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Dichelostemma capitatum Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:11:05 -0700 Hi, This plant is widespread in California, spilling into Oregon and Baja California from the coast to the foothills and even to the deserts occurring from 0 to 7545 feet (2300 meters). One would expect it to be very adaptable or at least that there would be a variety from a particular area that would be fine in British Columbia. It doesn't seem to be bothered by rain where I live. We average about 60 inches (152 cm.) and some years a lot more. I was excited when I found one to show Uli when he visited since they were just starting, but he had already seen them in larger numbers in Southern California. Mary Sue From robertwerra@sbcglobal.net Fri Apr 8 00:54:42 2005 Message-Id: <20050408045441.52769.qmail@web81009.mail.yahoo.com> From: Robert Werra Subject: fertilizing bulbs Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 21:54:41 -0700 (PDT) Regarding bulb fertilizing, I have a naive question. Does regular fertilization shorten bulb or corm life? I worry that this artificial forcing may wear out the bulb. I have grown moraeas in pots for 15+ years and have been dilatory in this regard and although my plants aren't show stoppers, they keep performing with regularity. I have several that have bloomed most every year for 15 years and they are the original bulb/corm. What does PBS think? Thanks Bob Werra --- Rand Nicholson wrote: > Hi All; > > >From experience, I wholeheartedly agree with what > Ken has said, although I must confess to only a > vague notion as to what a plant is doing with > nutrients and when. Like many of us, much of my > experience comes through, sometimes painstaking, > trial and error, or the kindnesses of others. Having > said that: what do experienced Lachenalia growers do > with their plants regarding culture? > > By the way, this one spends spring, summer and fall > out doors and is well acquainted with frost. I am > certain it could not take a true hard Canadian > frost, but it has survived unexpected hoar frosts > without major damage, retaining a significant > portion of its leaves. It still has two from last > year, splitting up the middle as the bulb expands. > > Although any notes were lost in my rather hurried > move last March, for some reason I keep thinking > that this bulb was on a South African schedule and > one of the reasons that I lost the other bulbs was > through my efforts to "switch" them to a North > American season - something which it looks like I > have achieved (if, indeed, that is what I was > attempting to do). > > Rand > > > > >Hi, members > > Fertilizing any plant is a complicated > matter--your soil, its pH, > >what minerals are present, the mineral needs of the > particular plant you > >are growing, moisture levels in the soil, > temperature, the stage of growth > >of the plant, etc. all interacting. > > > >> No foliage, no fertilizer. I have applied any > good organic > >>fertilizer just when the new leaves start to nose > out of the ground. > > > > If what you are doing works, continue. But > remember when > >fertilizing bulbs, you are feeding the bulb, and > the effect will be shown > >in next year's plant, with only minor effects on > this year's plant. All > >the minerals for this year's plant are already in > the bulb. There are > >numerous studies of which minerals are taken up by > bulbs, and at > >what times. It is very easy to be mislead, because > the mineral levels > >in the upper leaves of an easter lily for instance, > will be different than > >the mineral levels in the lower, older leaves on > the same stems. And, > >as the season draws to a close, minerals are > translocated out of the > >leaves down to the bulb. An excess of one mineral > may cause another > >needed mineral to become unavailable, and this can > change with the pH. > > Different species or hybrids, even in the > genus Lilium for instance, > >use minerals at different times, and "one size fits > all" does not apply. > >Species which grow their roots at a different > season than their foliage, > >have nutrient needs at a time you may not expect. > > When using organic fertilizers, it should > be remembered that > >their nutrient content is released more slowly, as > the fertilizer is > >decomposed by soil microorganisms, so applying the > fertilizer needs > >to be done far enough in advance that the > decomposition can be > >accomplished before the minerals are needed by the > plant.....then you > >need to be sure it won't be taken up by some other > plant or otherwise > >tied up, before the targeted plant can use it. > > What I'm really saying is, I can tell you > what works for me, but > >it may not work for you, growing the same plant > under other conditions, > >and you may be just polluting the ground to apply a > fertilizer when the > >plant can't use it. Comments from elsewhere need > to be regarded as > >a guide, not a "cookbook" that can be blindly > followed. > > > >Ken > >_______________________________________________ > >pbs mailing list > >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From msittner@mcn.org Fri Apr 8 11:25:54 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050407220150.02108010@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: North American Fritillarias Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 22:05:11 -0700 Hi, I added some of Bob Werra's Fritillaria pictures to the wiki. Perhaps now that he is back he can tell us a little more about them. Some of his pictures are ones in saw in the wild and some are garden plants. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NorthAmericanFritillarias They are: Fritillaria liliacea Fritillaria pluriflora Fritillaria striata Mary Sue From paige@hillkeep.ca Fri Apr 8 01:17:42 2005 Message-Id: <02f501c53bfa$4d02a950$1f8157d1@m6u3j5> From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: Fw: [pbs] Dichelostemma capitatum Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 22:17:11 -0700 Hello, Nancy and all. We are in southern BC and have also been fielding calls about Dichelostemma capitatum. This is one of a number of plants native to parts south of BC -- mainly California -- that have been specified for a huge, expensive, flowering-roof project in Vancouver. Normally there is little call for D. capitatum here, because our climate doesn't suit it. Or anyway, that is my experience. Test plots have been set up for this huge project, however; I wonder if the specs will be revised. Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca > Greetings, > We have recently had a person from Southern British Columbia inquire about > whether or not Dichelostemma Capitatum would do well in their climate > (planted in the ground, not in pots). The climate at this site is similar > to > Seattle, WA. Since this is out of Blue Dicks native range and the rainfall > is quite high, I am wondering if anyone living up that way would share > their > experience with growing this species in their garderns or meadows, and if > it > will naturalize or not,if you need to amend the soil for better drainage, > etc. > Thanks for any advice. > NANCY GILBERT > Grass Valley, California From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Fri Apr 8 01:17:25 2005 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: Lachenalia mystery plant Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 02:21:56 -0300 Dear Mary Sue: The leaves are from the previous seasons growth which started sometime in mid summer. It is rather late here, but tomorrow I am going back to the wikki to have a look at Veltheimia bractea as per Chad's speculation. Charging batteries for the digital camera and I will do my best to get some clear shots of the creature. Software willing and the creek don't rise (I am quite unskilled at this), pics will be forthcoming. Never leave home without your notes. Rand >Dear Rand, > >I'm sure we all would love to see the leaves of the plant you are talking about. Most Lachenalias do not like frost and there is only one species I grow that does not go completely dormant in the summer. Lachenalias even grow new roots every year. When you said "It still has two from last year, splitting up the middle as the bulb expands" when last year are you talking about? > >Can you take a picture of this to add to the wiki? > >Mary Sue > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Fri Apr 8 01:29:56 2005 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: Veltheimia bractea (was: Lachenalia mystery plant) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 02:34:31 -0300 Dear Chad: Late it may be, but I had to check out Veltheimia bractea on the wikki anyway or I could not sleep. I do not know if it is V. bractea, but I think you nailed it as a Veltheimia! The bloom will tell. I'll still work on the pictures. Rand >More and more this Lach is sounding like a small Veltheimia bractea... > >Chad Schroter From parsont@peak.org Fri Apr 8 09:09:59 2005 Message-Id: <42562228.16577.564E1D@localhost> From: "Louise Parsons" Subject: Snowdrops Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 06:18:16 -0700 > I know there is a seller of snowdrops in NY State. It is called Temple Nursery. > I have not purchased from him but I know that he has a catalog. Several years ago, I wrote to someone in the US who, as it turned out, only sold snowdrops "in the green". For this reason, they couldn't ship to Oregon. I have always wondered where the idea that snowdrops could only be transplanted "green" came from. Maybe it is true for certain species, but in reality I have never known any that would not stand being shipped dry, dormant, and free of soil. Maybe there are some species that ~are fussy this way? Anyway, thanks to both of you for the pointer. Cheers, Louise From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Fri Apr 8 10:27:00 2005 Message-Id: <000901c53c47$0507f7c0$8e0ce150@John> From: Subject: Snowdrops Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:54:44 +0100 The necessity of transplanting snowdrops 'In the Green' is nonsense, and shipping them like that is craziness, resulting in a stressed and unhappy plant that does not produce a full, mature bulb. Lifted in summer and kept cool and dry all summer they can be treated like any other bulb and will flower magnificently in the following spring. They must not become desiccated in hot sun, and that is where the myth begins, as wild-collected bulbs exported from Turkey had been dried-out in the sun, resulting in a very low success rate. Snowdrops transplanted in the green, by comparison, survived, and it became a shibboleth of the unthinking that it was a necessity. It would not be right to condemn all transplanting in the green - on Wednesday we had a group of violunteers here to do just that, spreading the snowdrops in the wood here, and we must have done several thousand G. nivalis and 'Flore Pleno'. Most will probably flower next year, but perhaps not quite so well as if they were moved when dormant. But in the wood, which will presently be under nettles etc, this is not really a practicality. A freshly transplanted growing snowdrop needs care, especially with extra watering, as its roots are invariably broken (and do not regrow). Watering will keep it growing for longer and thereby enable it to fatten its bulb better; if dry it will quickly go dormant and the bulb will be undersized, resulting in poor performance for at least a year. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louise Parsons" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Snowdrops > > I know there is a seller of snowdrops in NY State. It is called Temple Nursery. > > I have not purchased from him but I know that he has a catalog. > > > Several years ago, I wrote to someone in the US who, as it turned out, only > sold snowdrops "in the green". For this reason, they couldn't ship to Oregon. I > have always wondered where the idea that snowdrops could only be transplanted > "green" came from. Maybe it is true for certain species, but in reality I have > never known any that would not stand being shipped dry, dormant, and free of > soil. Maybe there are some species that ~are fussy this way? > > Anyway, thanks to both of you for the pointer. > > Cheers, Louise > > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Apr 8 10:44:06 2005 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Snowdrops - in the green NOT Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 09:46:12 -0500 Dear Louise and John; As you both preach, the tradition of 'In-the-green*' is nutsy. I propose that we use a "new" term - "Fresh**". This is oppose to the usual dried*** to crispness of traditional fall bulbs. Many bulbs are severely stressed by drying to this crisp state. Lycoris and Galanthus are just two genera that share this need to be kept fresh during dormancy. If not allowed to dry totally they can be dug when the foliage has ripened, stored for a few months and sent while still in a fresh state without stress or set back. Some definitions: *In the green Bulbs are dug with all foliage green, roots intact, even soil attached. Some bulbs tolerate this for a quick move from one part of the garden to another or for modest division. An emergency only. **Fresh Bulbs are allowed to ripen their foliage, enter dormancy and are then dug and stored in a cool, dark moist state. They may be divided and cleaned of most soil. Roots may/or may not dry out. Such bulbs are shipped for later planting or around the garden. ***Dry Bulbs are dug after foliage has ripened, they a re dried in a warm dry spot for days or weeks. Usually all foliage roots and soil are removed. Outer tunics and skin are crispy and flaky. Very dry to the touch. Bulbs are stored warm and dry until shipping or replanting. I suggest that some bulbs TOLERATE a variety of conditions, but others are severely stressed by improper digging and storage. Surely readers can suggest other bulbs that require 'fresh' treatment. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From Nancy.Gilbert@beale.af.mil Fri Apr 8 11:16:42 2005 Message-Id: <788ADF272F4A4E4891F6BB86894D239A81F611@fsbaey08> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC Subject: Dichelostemma capitatum Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:17:38 +0100 Thanks Diane. There are so many micro-climates in California and the Pacific Northwest that your point is well taken. -Nancy -----Original Message----- From: Diane Whitehead [mailto:voltaire@islandnet.com] Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 7:27 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Dichelostemma capitatum It depends where in southern British Columbia your questioner lives. I live there, in the rainshadow of the Olympic Mountains, where we get 27 inches of rain a year, and there are native cactus growing on various small islands. However, a few hours drive away on the west coast of Vancouver Island, gardeners enjoy frost-free conditions and well over 10 times the rain I get. I am in Blue Dick country right now, and bought a lot of seeds of various California wildflowers at Tilden Botanic Garden. I will know in a few years whether Blue Dicks will grow for me. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Nancy.Gilbert@beale.af.mil Fri Apr 8 11:18:12 2005 Message-Id: <788ADF272F4A4E4891F6BB86894D239A81F612@fsbaey08> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC Subject: Dichelostemma capitatum Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 08:19:57 -0700 Thanks Mary Sue. Hopefully we can get more specifics on just how much annual rainfall this person's site receives. -Nancy -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Mary Sue Ittner Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 8:11 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Dichelostemma capitatum Hi, This plant is widespread in California, spilling into Oregon and Baja California from the coast to the foothills and even to the deserts occurring from 0 to 7545 feet (2300 meters). One would expect it to be very adaptable or at least that there would be a variety from a particular area that would be fine in British Columbia. It doesn't seem to be bothered by rain where I live. We average about 60 inches (152 cm.) and some years a lot more. I was excited when I found one to show Uli when he visited since they were just starting, but he had already seen them in larger numbers in Southern California. Mary Sue _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Nancy.Gilbert@beale.af.mil Fri Apr 8 11:25:09 2005 Message-Id: <788ADF272F4A4E4891F6BB86894D239A81F614@fsbaey08> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC Subject: Dichelostemma capitatum Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 08:26:55 -0700 Thanks Paige. I think this may be the same project, as they want very large numbers and we are contemplating whether or not to pursue growing for them. We tried to suggest that they be more flexible with species selection, but they seemed quite commited to the plant list/spec. We don't want to send lots of our bulbs up there to rot out in your climate, as it would be a waste as far as we are concerned. How much rainfall do you receive? -Nancy -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Pacific Rim Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:17 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Fw: [pbs] Dichelostemma capitatum Hello, Nancy and all. We are in southern BC and have also been fielding calls about Dichelostemma capitatum. This is one of a number of plants native to parts south of BC -- mainly California -- that have been specified for a huge, expensive, flowering-roof project in Vancouver. Normally there is little call for D. capitatum here, because our climate doesn't suit it. Or anyway, that is my experience. Test plots have been set up for this huge project, however; I wonder if the specs will be revised. Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca > Greetings, > We have recently had a person from Southern British Columbia inquire > about whether or not Dichelostemma Capitatum would do well in their > climate (planted in the ground, not in pots). The climate at this site > is similar to Seattle, WA. Since this is out of Blue Dicks native > range and the rainfall is quite high, I am wondering if anyone living > up that way would share their > experience with growing this species in their garderns or meadows, and if > it > will naturalize or not,if you need to amend the soil for better drainage, > etc. > Thanks for any advice. > NANCY GILBERT > Grass Valley, California _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jimmckenney@starpower.net Fri Apr 8 11:38:13 2005 Message-Id: <3u3f9p$j9puj@smtp04.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Snowdrops - in the green NOT Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:35:10 -0400 Jim Waddick wrote: "Surely readers can suggest other bulbs that require 'fresh' treatment." One bulb pops to the top of my list of bulbs to be given the "fresh" treatment: Leucojum vernum. Other candidates: Allium ursinum (some of you may wonder why anyone would care if this one lives), Fritillaria in general and Ornithogalum nutans (another which some may want to know how to get rid of). Leucojum aestivum on the other hand, is no fussier than most daffodils, probably because of its comparatively large bulb size, and (not to deliberately contradict my bulb-size hypothesis) Acis autumnalis takes drying well, too. One common-sense generalization: the smaller the bulb, the more likely it will respond favorably to the "fresh" treatment. And that's doubly true for many untunicated bulbs. I respectfully consider my esteemed colleagues to have come down too hard on the "in the green" business. All of my "better" snowdrops came to me from across the pond "in the green". And they went on to bloom the next year without incident. There was also the added bonus that some carried viable seed pods. Obviously, my suppliers knew what they were doing. I'm not arguing for a return to or the promotion of the "in the green" practice, but it did serve a good purpose: it called everyone's attention to the need to handle certain bulbs in fresh condition. It provided an important alternative. Above, I mentioned the different ways the several species of Leucojum/Acis respond to drying. Nor do all snowdrops respond the same way. In the bad old days, Galanthus elwesii stocks almost always gave a good account of themselves when purchased dry. But Galanthus nivalis and its cultivars and hybrids were another story: they almost always came with problems. (And as an aside: this difference is reflected in their seeds. Those of G. elwesii are hard, round and take drying well. Those of G. nivalis are soft, seemingly semi-embryonic and with a large, slowly-absorbed elaiosome and do not, in my experience, dry well.) Until recently (and still in this country) named cultivars of Galanthus elwesii were all but unknown. But even here in the backwaters of galanthomania the cultivars of G. nivalis are known and sought out. Some of the oldest cultilvars such as 'S. Arnott' and 'Viridapicis' are appearing on the mass distribution catalogs. I don't think we should be doing anything to lessen the pressure on commercial suppliers to provide healthy, growable stocks. "In the green" I think we all agree is an extreme. But don't forget, the word "fresh" has no legal definition, and it will mean whatever the circumstances will demand. Has everyone forgotten what some grocery stores sell as "fresh"? It seems to me that "Know your supplier" is the mantra to keep in mind when buying snowdrops. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where things are really popping, and I wish I knew a supplier who knows how to handle Eranthis hyemalis. Eranthis in the green? Sounds good to me! -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James Waddick Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 10:46 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Snowdrops - in the green NOT Dear Louise and John; As you both preach, the tradition of 'In-the-green*' is nutsy. I propose that we use a "new" term - "Fresh**". This is oppose to the usual dried*** to crispness of traditional fall bulbs. Many bulbs are severely stressed by drying to this crisp state. Lycoris and Galanthus are just two genera that share this need to be kept fresh during dormancy. If not allowed to dry totally they can be dug when the foliage has ripened, stored for a few months and sent while still in a fresh state without stress or set back. Some definitions: *In the green Bulbs are dug with all foliage green, roots intact, even soil attached. Some bulbs tolerate this for a quick move from one part of the garden to another or for modest division. An emergency only. **Fresh Bulbs are allowed to ripen their foliage, enter dormancy and are then dug and stored in a cool, dark moist state. They may be divided and cleaned of most soil. Roots may/or may not dry out. Such bulbs are shipped for later planting or around the garden. ***Dry Bulbs are dug after foliage has ripened, they a re dried in a warm dry spot for days or weeks. Usually all foliage roots and soil are removed. Outer tunics and skin are crispy and flaky. Very dry to the touch. Bulbs are stored warm and dry until shipping or replanting. I suggest that some bulbs TOLERATE a variety of conditions, but others are severely stressed by improper digging and storage. Surely readers can suggest other bulbs that require 'fresh' treatment. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jimmckenney@starpower.net Fri Apr 8 12:00:01 2005 Message-Id: <3u3f9p$ja4cf@smtp04.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: fertilizing bulbs Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:59:59 -0400 Bob Werra asked: Regarding bulb fertilizing, I have a naive question. Does regular fertilization shorten bulb or corm life? Bob, your question made me think two things at once. First of all, here's an equally naïve answer: there are cultivated clones of Tulipa which have had regular fertilization literally for centuries - and it hasn't killed them yet. So I think it's safe to say, as a broad generalization, that fertilization does not necessarily shorten bulb life. But here's another thought: I've been thinking about this question of fertilizing bulbs a bit lately, and this idea popped up: why not see what the experts, the real experts whose livelihood depend on the results, have to say about it. I have not yet tracked down the experts, but for starters I'm considering USDA publications on onion culture and Easter lily culture. Those are both bulbs, and in the case of onions, bulbs in the big business sense. I'll bet there are plenty of studies which have determined precisely when those bulbs need fertilization and just what nutrients they need when. What follows is slightly off topic. Don't blame me for the dieresis on the word naïve (if your email program displays it). That's another Microsoft editorial effort, and it's one I don't like. Don't they know how the word is really pronounced in English: neigh eve' is what I hear, as if the word were spelled naiive. In other words, we're all mispronouncing it anyway. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where I enjoyed the first chervil of the season with this morning's eggs. From eagle85@flash.net Fri Apr 8 12:32:07 2005 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Veltheimia bractea (was: Lachenalia mystery plant) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:33:34 -0700 Rand NicholsonDoug Westfall writserv@nbnet.nb.ca1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Late it may be, but I had to check out Veltheimia bractea on the wikki anyway > or I could not sleep. I do not know if it is V. bractea, but I think you > nailed it as a Veltheimia! The bloom will tell. I'll still work on the > pictures. > > Rand ^^^^^^^^^ May I suggest that the leaves may well be the determining factor in identifying V. bracteata from V. capensis. Doug Westfall From totototo@pacificcoast.net Fri Apr 8 11:26:14 2005 Message-Id: From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: fertilizing bulbs Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 08:35:43 -0800 On 7 Apr 05 at 8:39, Judy Glattstein wrote: > And what about bulbs that do not synchronize flower and leaf production? > The majority of colchicum for example - flowering must draw on stored > food reserves. These reserves then, are not replenished until leaves grow > the following spring. And the clever colchicums also wait until spring to > produce their seeds, when food reserves are re-supplied. On 7 Apr 05 at 7:57, Merrill Jensen wrote: > I've always followed the "Observe, Deduce, Apply" method of fertilization > in these cases. No foliage, no fertilizer. I have applied any good > organic fertilizer just when the new leaves start to nose out of the > ground. This has worked well in the past and I'll do this with my new > South African friend, Amaryllis belladonna... I'm not so sure the "no foliage, no fertilizer" rule is sound. A few years ago, I decided that my entire garden needed fertilization: the soil is a pretty good heavy loam, but in the forty years since the house was built, there's been a constant crop of vegetation taken off it, and I felt that the basic nutrients were very likely depleted. More by accident than design, I ended up broadcasting fertilizer on the entire garden in early September so it could be washed into the soil by the rains that started a few weeks later. [I used 13-16-10 at a rate of about 2 oz per square yard.] Everything was fertilized: lawn and flower beds both, willy nilly. The next spring, to my surprise, many spring bulbs flowered more strongly than in the past, including e.g. Narcissus 'Peeping Tom'. [Peeping Tom is right by my front steps and gets more attention than many others.] I had always understood that in narcissus, the flower primordia are formed the previous summer and hence inferred that fall fertilization would have no effect on flowering the next spring. I suspect the "no foliage no fertilizer" rule is flawed because bulbs can and do push roots out into the soil very early, and these roots *must* be absorbing nutrients. Photosynthesis comes later when the foliage emerges. Fall fertilization isn't necessarily a panacea, but it has had surprisingly good results for me. There's a sense that since most plants are actively growing in the early fall, they absorb nutrients then to boost their performance when warm weather returns in the spring. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From btankers@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org Fri Apr 8 12:41:52 2005 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A71C473@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Dichelostemma capitatum Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:44:36 -0500 Just a quick note with regards to green roof plant selection. Roof top gardens typically experience much more stress than gardens in terra firma. The radiant heat from not only the surrounding building but also from the building below are factors that suggest plant selection from climates that experience greater heat and greater drought than the local populations. Having said that, there will be those extreme cold weather events that suggest plant selection from populations experiencing the same or colder temperatures. We are in the 'blue sky' thinking mode about support for a new roof garden in Chicago. The natural vegetation of the Chicago area are tall-grass prairies. Past experience has taught us that a tall grass prairie is not the ideal community to try to establish and maintain on a roof-top garden. Our 'ideal' plant populations - we think - will be from glades (areas of thin poor soil overlaying limestone or dolomite bedrock). Glades are more prevalent in regions to our southwest (by a couple of hundred miles) yet still in our USDA climate zone 5 definition of minimum winter temperatures. Information about greening of cities (and roof top gardens) is one of the topics of the American Association of Botanic Gardens and Arboreta (aabga.org for more details and registration information) meeting to be held in Chicago this summer. Boyce Tankersley btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 10:27 AM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Cc: 'nancyames@accessbee.com' Subject: RE: [pbs] Dichelostemma capitatum Thanks Paige. I think this may be the same project, as they want very large numbers and we are contemplating whether or not to pursue growing for them. We tried to suggest that they be more flexible with species selection, but they seemed quite commited to the plant list/spec. We don't want to send lots of our bulbs up there to rot out in your climate, as it would be a waste as far as we are concerned. How much rainfall do you receive? -Nancy -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Pacific Rim Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:17 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Fw: [pbs] Dichelostemma capitatum Hello, Nancy and all. We are in southern BC and have also been fielding calls about Dichelostemma capitatum. This is one of a number of plants native to parts south of BC -- mainly California -- that have been specified for a huge, expensive, flowering-roof project in Vancouver. Normally there is little call for D. capitatum here, because our climate doesn't suit it. Or anyway, that is my experience. Test plots have been set up for this huge project, however; I wonder if the specs will be revised. Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca > Greetings, > We have recently had a person from Southern British Columbia inquire > about whether or not Dichelostemma Capitatum would do well in their > climate (planted in the ground, not in pots). The climate at this site > is similar to Seattle, WA. Since this is out of Blue Dicks native > range and the rainfall is quite high, I am wondering if anyone living > up that way would share their > experience with growing this species in their garderns or meadows, and if > it > will naturalize or not,if you need to amend the soil for better drainage, > etc. > Thanks for any advice. > NANCY GILBERT > Grass Valley, California _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From piabinha@yahoo.com Fri Apr 8 12:51:20 2005 Message-Id: <20050408165120.82055.qmail@web51904.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Veltheimia bracteata vs. capensis Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 09:51:19 -0700 (PDT) i still haven't figured out how to tell them apart. i used to think capensis were much mere wavy and undulate, but in the wiki pages, there's a pic of capensis with straight leaves... tsuh yang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ From eob@nu-world.com Fri Apr 8 13:16:10 2005 Message-Id: From: "Ernie O'Byrne" Subject: Snowdrops - in the green NOT Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:15:53 -0700 The various eranthis species and cultivars also do not like excessive drying, as well as, some Corydalis, even solida. I have killed several steppe species by letting them dry too much in the seed pots in a highly drained mix. Ernie O'Byrne Northwest Garden Nursery 86813 Central Road Eugene, ORegon 97402 USA USDA Z. 7B -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of James Waddick Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 7:46 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Snowdrops - in the green NOT Dear Louise and John; I suggest that some bulbs TOLERATE a variety of conditions, but others are severely stressed by improper digging and storage. Surely readers can suggest other bulbs that require 'fresh' treatment. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From khixson@nu-world.com Fri Apr 8 13:29:36 2005 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20050408100521.02824980@mail.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Snowdrops - in the green NOT Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 10:29:19 -0700 Hi, members: I'd like to comment on Jim's classification: >**Fresh Bulbs are allowed to ripen their foliage, enter dormancy and are >then dug and stored in a cool, dark moist state. They may be divided and >cleaned of most soil. Roots may/or may not dry out. Such bulbs are shipped >for later planting or around the garden. Lilies, like fritillarias, lack an outer membrane to retain moisture, which is probably why they didn't become a commercial success until the invention of plastic bags and peatmoss packaging for individual bulbs. (Purchasers of large lots, such as greenhouses, were more successful "in the good old days' when the bulbs were packed in large crates which retained some moisture.) Lilies almost always perform better if the roots do not dry out. They do grow new roots when planted, so perhaps the presence of roots merely assures that they've been properly handled in shipment? It is also a mantra with lily growers that spring planted lilies do not perform as well as the same bulb would have if planted in the fall and allowed to establish a new root system. It is always a race to allow the lilies to mature in the field, get them harvested, graded, packaged, then shipped soon enough to allow fall planting in areas with frozen soils in winter. Retailers/sellers often claim that lilies are fine when properly stored for spring planting, but experience seems to indicate otherwise. Even the madonna lily seems to perform better if shipped with root protection, and it is harvested and should be (but often isn't) shipped so it can be planted in late summer, with plenty of time to establish a new root system before cold soil temperatures stop development. "In the green" shipment certainly makes it much easier for a pest or disease to be spread around from one area to another, not only because the soil is still present, but the individual bulbs are not examined for the possible presence of problems. Ken From paige@hillkeep.ca Fri Apr 8 15:19:44 2005 Message-Id: <006d01c53c6f$ea8eca30$898157d1@m6u3j5> From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: Fw: [pbs] Dichelostemma capitatum Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:56:39 -0700 Nancy, where I am, we get more rain than Vancouver . Vancouver gets perhaps 45 inches a year. But there's more to it than that. Here is a website that presents heat, daylight and rainfall by month. http://www.bcpassport.com/vital/temp.html#rain I am sure this is the same project. Note that the date for bids has not closed; thus I would be wary of contracting to supply anything yet. I will now shut up and leave you to investigate further on your own. With best wishes Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Cc: Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 8:26 AM Subject: RE: [pbs] Dichelostemma capitatum > Thanks Paige. I think this may be the same project, as they want very > large > numbers and we are contemplating whether or not to pursue growing for > them. > We tried to suggest that they be more flexible with species selection, but > they seemed quite commited to the plant list/spec. We don't want to send > lots of our bulbs up there to rot out in your climate, as it would be a > waste as far as we are concerned. How much rainfall do you receive? > -Nancy > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of Pacific Rim > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:17 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Fw: [pbs] Dichelostemma capitatum > > > Hello, Nancy and all. We are in southern BC and have also been fielding > calls about Dichelostemma capitatum. This is one of a number of plants > native to parts south of BC -- mainly California -- that have been > specified > for a huge, expensive, flowering-roof project in Vancouver. Normally > there > is little call for D. capitatum here, because our climate doesn't suit it. > Or anyway, that is my experience. Test plots have been set up for this > huge > project, however; I wonder if the specs will be revised. > > Paige Woodward > paige@hillkeep.ca > www.hillkeep.ca > >> Greetings, >> We have recently had a person from Southern British Columbia inquire >> about whether or not Dichelostemma Capitatum would do well in their >> climate (planted in the ground, not in pots). The climate at this site >> is similar to Seattle, WA. Since this is out of Blue Dicks native >> range and the rainfall is quite high, I am wondering if anyone living >> up that way would share their >> experience with growing this species in their garderns or meadows, and if >> it >> will naturalize or not,if you need to amend the soil for better drainage, >> etc. >> Thanks for any advice. >> NANCY GILBERT >> Grass Valley, California > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From khixson@nu-world.com Fri Apr 8 15:07:53 2005 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20050408114843.04bb6d40@mail.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: fertilizing bulbs Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:07:36 -0700 Hi, Bob I haven't grown Moreas, and don't garden in your climate, so have hesitated to respond. >Does regular fertilization shorten bulb or corm life? Normally, fertilization supplements, not replaces, what your soil can already provide. Bulbs (and other plants) usually grow more lushly, enough so that they are more subject to pests and diseases, and to that extent, fertilizer can lead to shorter bulb life. >I worry that this artificial forcing may wear out the >bulb. I have grown moraeas in pots for 15+ years Do you repot (provide fresh compost) on a regular basis? As far as forcing, fertilizers don't really force anything but lush growth. As a general rule, I use minimal amounts of fertilizers, but for containers, my experience is that a regular but weak (half strength or less) application of fertilizer during that plant's growing season, is necessary for plants of all sorts. Keep in mind that I use containers for many of the seedlings I grow, and they do better with higher levels of fertilizers than older plants. I also garden in a climate with a lot of rain, and nitrogen is easily washed out of the soil. I don't think bulbs "wear out", but they may gradually acquire various pests and diseases that debilitate them. Viruses for instance do kill some bulbs outright, but more often the afflicted plant simply doesn't grow as well as it could, and becomes more susceptible to other pests and diseases, which may eventually kill it. Ken From Nancy.Gilbert@beale.af.mil Fri Apr 8 15:23:38 2005 Message-Id: <788ADF272F4A4E4891F6BB86894D239A81F622@fsbaey08> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC Subject: Dichelostemma capitatum Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:25:20 -0700 Muchas Gracias Paige. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Pacific Rim Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 11:57 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Fw: [pbs] Dichelostemma capitatum Nancy, where I am, we get more rain than Vancouver . Vancouver gets perhaps 45 inches a year. But there's more to it than that. Here is a website that presents heat, daylight and rainfall by month. http://www.bcpassport.com/vital/temp.html#rain I am sure this is the same project. Note that the date for bids has not closed; thus I would be wary of contracting to supply anything yet. I will now shut up and leave you to investigate further on your own. With best wishes Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Cc: Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 8:26 AM Subject: RE: [pbs] Dichelostemma capitatum > Thanks Paige. I think this may be the same project, as they want very > large > numbers and we are contemplating whether or not to pursue growing for > them. > We tried to suggest that they be more flexible with species selection, but > they seemed quite commited to the plant list/spec. We don't want to send > lots of our bulbs up there to rot out in your climate, as it would be a > waste as far as we are concerned. How much rainfall do you receive? > -Nancy > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of Pacific Rim > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:17 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Fw: [pbs] Dichelostemma capitatum > > > Hello, Nancy and all. We are in southern BC and have also been > fielding calls about Dichelostemma capitatum. This is one of a number > of plants native to parts south of BC -- mainly California -- that > have been specified for a huge, expensive, flowering-roof project in > Vancouver. Normally there > is little call for D. capitatum here, because our climate doesn't suit it. > Or anyway, that is my experience. Test plots have been set up for this > huge > project, however; I wonder if the specs will be revised. > > Paige Woodward > paige@hillkeep.ca > www.hillkeep.ca > >> Greetings, >> We have recently had a person from Southern British Columbia inquire >> about whether or not Dichelostemma Capitatum would do well in their >> climate (planted in the ground, not in pots). The climate at this >> site is similar to Seattle, WA. Since this is out of Blue Dicks >> native range and the rainfall is quite high, I am wondering if anyone >> living up that way would share their experience with growing this >> species in their garderns or meadows, and if it >> will naturalize or not,if you need to amend the soil for better drainage, >> etc. >> Thanks for any advice. >> NANCY GILBERT >> Grass Valley, California > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jshields@indy.net Fri Apr 8 16:46:53 2005 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050408151416.01e47cf0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: fertilizing bulbs Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 15:46:50 -0500 Hi all, I suggest we consult the following: A.R. Rees, "The Growth of Bulbs" Academic Press, London & New York, 1972, 311 pp. A. De Hertogh & M. Le Nard, "The Physiology of Flower Bulbs" Elsevier, Amsterdam, London, New York, Tokyo, 1993, 811 pp. This was gleaned from de Hertogh & Le Nard: For Narcissus, phosphate and potassium are applied at planting and then nitrogen later as a top dressing just before plant emergence. Dutch usage seemed to average 50-75 kg/hectare ( 1 kg = ca. 2.2 pounds; 1 hectare (ha) = about 2.5 acres) nitrogen in winter; 75-125 kg/ha nitrogen in spring; 100 kg/ha phosphate (as P2O5), and 220 kg/ha potassium (as K2O), and 40-60 kg/ha magnesium. Tulips are given fall and spring fertilizer applications: Ammonium in fall; a small but measurable uptake of nitrogen occurred in winter. The spring application is nitrate (NO3-) applied at leaf emergence; uptake was rapid. Excessive nitrogen (more than 250 kg/ha) caused a decrease in bulb yield. Potassium and phosphate fertilizers have not be studies so thoroughly Lilium were fed with 75-150 kg/ha nitrogen in mid-May or split between mid-May and mid-June applications. The split applications yielded large bulbs. Use of potassium fertilizer in magnesium-deficient soils will exaggerate the magnesium deficiency. Unless you are doing a large scale study of bulb yields, it probably won't matter what you use or when you use it to feed bulbs. It is in the tricky ones where you need to experiment and to be aware of what you are doing. Field trials do not have much relevance to pot culture, in my own opinion. Regards, Jim Shields in spring-like central Indiana At 11:59 AM 4/8/2005 -0400, you wrote: >........ >But here's another thought: I've been thinking about this question of >fertilizing bulbs a bit lately, and this idea popped up: why not see what >the experts, the real experts whose livelihood depend on the results, have >to say about it. > >I have not yet tracked down the experts, but for starters I'm considering >USDA publications on onion culture and Easter lily culture. Those are both >bulbs, and in the case of onions, bulbs in the big business sense. I'll bet >there are plenty of studies which have determined precisely when those bulbs >need fertilization and just what nutrients they need when. >....... >Jim McKenney ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jimmckenney@starpower.net Fri Apr 8 20:17:33 2005 Message-Id: <3u3gb7$lb9v9@smtp05.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: White-flowered Erythronium americanum? Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 20:17:32 -0400 All the recent posts about white-flowered Erythronium dens-canis have got me thinking about the local white-flowered Erythronium. Can anyone tell me if Erythronium americanum has white-flowered forms? I know of two local populations of E. americanum among which grow plants with white flowers. The white-flowered plants produce flowers which are comparatively wimpy and have distinctly bluish leaves. In the location I've seen most often, the white-flowered plants are almost certainly a clone: they grow in a big patch (of foliage, not flowers!) about a yard or two across. It seems very unlikely to me that these are E. albidum, although everyone I've ever asked uses that name for them. Any thoughts? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 where for some early bloomers heavy rain last night made literally true the term "spring ephemerals". From jimmckenney@starpower.net Fri Apr 8 20:24:04 2005 Message-Id: <3u3gb7$lbbf8@smtp05.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: "Bermudian snowdrop" Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 20:24:03 -0400 Great suggestion, Brian. I took your advice, and the staff at East Lambrook Manor Gardens came up with the suggestion that the "Bermudian snowdrop" is probably Leucojum aestivum. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Leucojum aestivum is blooming here now. From dodona@mac.com Fri Apr 8 22:04:54 2005 Message-Id: <2c416c7c80c9df59ec3f3040a76f013f@mac.com> From: Nancy Wallace Subject: erythroniums Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 22:04:49 -0400 John Lonsdale (Edgewood Gardens) suggested I contact Diana Chapman of Telos Bulbs to see if she could provide a source of these bulbs for me. I have a client who has been trying to locate some. Can anyone help me? Nancy Wallace grassroots girls, llc 3579 W. Lawrenceville Street Duluth, GA 30096 678-475-9444 SKYPE ID: grassrootsgirlsnancy www.grassrootsgirls.com Retail Garden Accessories & Landscape Design From paige@hillkeep.ca Fri Apr 8 23:28:08 2005 Message-Id: <01c601c53cb4$243dd8e0$898157d1@m6u3j5> From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: erythroniums Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 20:18:49 -0700 So, Nancy, what did Diana Chapman say? Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Wallace" To: Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 7:04 PM Subject: [pbs] erythroniums > John Lonsdale (Edgewood Gardens) suggested I contact > Diana Chapman of Telos Bulbs to see if she could provide a > source of these bulbs for me. I have a client who has been trying > to locate some. Can anyone help me? > > Nancy Wallace > grassroots girls, llc > 3579 W. Lawrenceville Street > Duluth, GA 30096 > 678-475-9444 > SKYPE ID: grassrootsgirlsnancy > www.grassrootsgirls.com > Retail Garden Accessories & Landscape Design > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From msittner@mcn.org Sat Apr 9 01:49:13 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050408223715.028b9550@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: erythroniums Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 22:49:54 -0700 Dear Nancy, Jim Shields who is a member of our list keeps a list of bulb sources on his Great Lakes Bulb Society web page which is very helpful: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/BulbSources.html Telos web site is: http://www.telosrarebulbs.com I don't expect Diana has her 2005 catalog up yet. Her shipping season is usually summer into early fall. There are several members of our list who sell Erythroniums listed by Jim. I hope they will contact you privately about their availability. Welcome to our pbs list. Mary Sue From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Sat Apr 9 07:12:02 2005 Message-Id: <002f01c53cf4$f4235450$7f3c9a51@2CVEVE1> From: "Brian Whyer" Subject: "Bermudian snowdrop" Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:12:01 +0100 Jim I find that a strange suggestion. Leucojum aestivum normally has the trivial name Loddon Lily in the UK, named after a tributary of the Thames about 15 miles from my home, alongside which it grows "wild". If she uses the latter name in the book you can rule out the snowdrop name presumably. I will see Avon bulbs at the RHS/AGS show in London on Tuesday and will consult them, if I remember. Thinking about it, I have never seen them in the wild and may go and try a few habitat photos for the wiki. Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 > Great suggestion, Brian. > > I took your advice, and the staff at East Lambrook Manor Gardens came up > with the suggestion that the "Bermudian snowdrop" is probably Leucojum > aestivum. > > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@starpower.net > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Leucojum aestivum is > blooming here now. From msittner@mcn.org Sat Apr 9 11:23:45 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050409072943.028b8c40@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Veltheimia bracteata vs. capensis Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 08:24:23 -0700 Dear Tsuh Yang, In the Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs key: Leaves glossy dark green, seldom all deciduous; bulb tunics fleshy; bracts 10-30 mm long, spring flowering = V. bracteata Leaves glaucous or grayish, deciduous; outer bulb tunics papery; bracts 10-15 mm long; autumn and winter flowering = V. capensis Looking over the wiki I see that a lot of our pictures don't really show the leaves so have added a picture my husband took of my plants in bloom in March 2003. And I've tried to improve the text a bit to explain the differences. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Veltheimia New picture: http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Veltheimia/Veltheimia_bracteata_br.jpg I think when we started this list and decided to create a wiki as a place to add pictures instead of creating a separate image list where attachments were allowed, we never anticipated what a resource it would become. I have had the strange experience of getting emails from people who do not know me who reference a wiki picture as "the authority." In a couple of instances the picture has been one my husband or I took! Knowing people look to it to help them figure out a plant is a good reason to include many different aspects of the plants in our pictures for the wiki (leaves, storage organs, whole plant), in addition to close-ups of the flowers. Habitat pictures are great too as often plants in cultivation can look very different and besides it gives you an idea of where they grow which can help you figure out what they might need to be successful. And text is extremely helpful too. The Veltheimia bracteata I grow is so different from V. capensis that they are easy to tell apart. One has shiny green leaves and the other one dull silver gray leaves. I've not gotten blooms from V. capensis and suspect I'll have much more trouble getting it to thrive for me even though it is from a winter rainfall area and V. bracteata from an area where rainfall occurs in summer or year round. My winters are really wetter than V. capensis likes and since it needs a lot of sun to bloom, sheltering it doesn't work very well either. On the other hand I can leave V. bracteata on a open covered porch where the wind blows a bit of rain on it, but where it is protected from the worst of our storms and hail and I can appreciate the gorgeous shiny leaves which return in fall and the long blooming time. I thank Bill Dijk and Doug Westfall for turning me on to this plant which is one of my favorites! If this is what you have Rand, I predict you are going to be very happy. Mary Sue From eagle85@flash.net Sat Apr 9 12:12:44 2005 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Veltheimia bracteata vs. capensis Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 09:14:11 -0700 piabaDoug Westfall piabinha@yahoo.com1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > i still haven't figured out how to tell them apart. i > used to think capensis were much mere wavy and > undulate, but in the wiki pages, there's a pic of > capensis with straight leaves... > > tsuh yang, Capensis have gray/greem leaves, are more narrow (most of the time), bloom earlier and go "dormant" earlier, and individual flowers tend to be smaller. If the one on the wiki page is mine, it is very unusual and "PERHAPS," a cross. Doug Westfall From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Sat Apr 9 13:31:27 2005 Message-Id: <000501c53d29$f516e900$b5e22bd9@2CVEVE1> From: "Brian Whyer" Subject: Veltheimia bracteata vs. capensis Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:31:26 +0100 > In the Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs key: > > Leaves glossy dark green, seldom all deciduous; bulb tunics fleshy; bracts > 10-30 mm long, spring flowering = V. bracteata > > Leaves glaucous or grayish, deciduous; outer bulb tunics papery; bracts > 10-15 mm long; autumn and winter flowering = V. capensis I have two seed grown forms of what were supposed to be (AGS seed?) Velthemia bracteata, both with very glossy wavy edged leaves, one broad leaves, 2"+ wide, the other 1-1/2" wide, but the flowering time depends very much on winter temperature. They bud up in late autumn, but can be flowered from November indoors, until now in a frost free greenhouse. The flower colour also varies considerably with light/temperature levels, presumably due to the time of year; as a house plant in a south facing window (December/January), they are a poor pale pink, in the greenhouse (February/March/April) they are quite a good deep pink, but the last to open flowers fade again if brought into the house. Mine flowered in 3-4 years from seed, even as quite small bulbs in 3 1/2" pots, and flower every year. They have quite small root systems and can almost fill the top surface of the pot. They are the most accommodating flowering bulbs I have. Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 From JFlintoff@aol.com Sat Apr 9 18:01:06 2005 Message-Id: <8C70B66C17F0668-CA8-D4C8@mblk-r12.sysops.aol.com> From: jflintoff@aol.com Subject: Dichelostemma capitatum Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 18:01:02 -0400 Nancy,Paige et al When I lived in Seattle Dichelostemma capitatum was almost a weed in raised beds and gravel paths, which wasn't a problem since it makes such a great cut flower and the plants don't bother other plants growing close by. Of course, the seed heads could have been cut off, but I am not a tidy person. The seeds of this stock came from plants growing on the trail to Dog Mountain on the Washington side of the Columbia River Gorge. Long ago the plant was native to bluffs in the Seattle/Tacoma area but it was extirpated before my time. I would think that this species would be easy in Vancouver, BC. Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washington,USA Zone 8 From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Sat Apr 9 19:11:08 2005 Message-Id: <20050409231108.7101.qmail@web50108.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Architecture Subject: Chile photos Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:11:08 -0700 (PDT) I don't think this link has been posted before: http://www.ecolyma.cl/galeria/index.php There are some nice photos of various bulbs, including: Alstroemeria Bomeria Phycellia Rhodophiala and a few others John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat Apr 9 19:21:21 2005 Message-Id: <4258636E.9020500@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Chile bulbs Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 19:21:18 -0400 Recently received photos from Osmani in Chile http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Traubia Arnold From piabinha@yahoo.com Sat Apr 9 23:48:05 2005 Message-Id: <20050410034804.25632.qmail@web51909.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Rhodocodon Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 20:48:04 -0700 (PDT) i came across a nursery selling this bulb from madagascar. is there anything special about this? anyone grow it? tsuh yang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From Ger.Stickroth@t-online.de Sun Apr 10 03:24:27 2005 Message-Id: <1DKWnt-1eXJgm0@fwd27.sul.t-online.de> From: "Gerhard Stickroth" Subject: Dicentra uniflora & pauciflora Date: 10 Apr 2005 07:23 GMT Hello, Who can tell me a little about those two plants. Also, who knows a source for seed. Thank you for your help. Gerhard Stickroth From john@crellin.org.uk Sun Apr 10 06:14:30 2005 Message-Id: From: "JohnCrellin" Subject: "Bermudian snowdrop" <> Lodden Lily Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:14:14 +0100 I am intending to photograph L. aestivum subsp. aestivum next week - Dinton Pastures has been recommended to me. On this subject does anyone have information on the distinguishing features of Gravetye Giant ? John Crellin Reply / forward from John Crellin -----Original Message----- From: Brian Whyer [mailto:brian.whyer@btinternet.com] Sent: 09 April 2005 12:12 To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: RE: [pbs] "Bermudian snowdrop" Jim I find that a strange suggestion. Leucojum aestivum normally has the trivial name Loddon Lily in the UK, named after a tributary of the Thames about 15 miles from my home, alongside which it grows "wild". If she uses the latter name in the book you can rule out the snowdrop name presumably. I will see Avon bulbs at the RHS/AGS show in London on Tuesday and will consult them, if I remember. Thinking about it, I have never seen them in the wild and may go and try a few habitat photos for the wiki. Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 > Great suggestion, Brian. > > I took your advice, and the staff at East Lambrook Manor Gardens came up > with the suggestion that the "Bermudian snowdrop" is probably Leucojum > aestivum. > > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@starpower.net > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Leucojum aestivum is > blooming here now. From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Apr 10 08:34:12 2005 Message-Id: <42591D42.5040106@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Rhodocodon Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:34:10 -0400 Tsuh: I found it also listed as Rhadamanthus, native to Madagascar, Southern Africa to Namibia. 20 species. Arnold From rrgcjsg@bmts.com Sun Apr 10 10:24:43 2005 Message-Id: <061e01c53dd9$0b8facd0$b490b7d8@Ronnalee> From: "Lee & Scott Gerow" Subject: Snowdrops - in the green "again" Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:24:40 -0400 Good morning, On Wed. (snow finally melting) I noticed that I had several Galanthus bulbs that had 'heaved' themselves out of the ground (bulbs should have been divided at least 2 yrs. ago) so I planted them in another location. Several were budded up. They did not blink and by Sat. the flowers had partially opened. My only experience with "in the green" to date. I have recentley joined pbs and have started some bulbs from seeds this year.-first time for me, and now I wait. ;-) Thank you to all who provide such a wealth of information, advise,and sharing of such vast knowledge. You have inspired me. And a special thanks to Dell who sent seeds, in good faith, before I actually became a member. Ronnalee in Wiarton, zone 5a/5b (Niagara Escarpment along the Bruce Trail- part of the Canadian Shield ) still snow mounds on the North side of the house and today and yesterday temp. was 18. - first time for me, and now I wait. ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McKenney" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 11:35 AM Subject: RE: [pbs] Snowdrops - in the green NOT > Jim Waddick wrote: "Surely readers can suggest other bulbs that require > 'fresh' treatment." > > One bulb pops to the top of my list of bulbs to be given the "fresh" > treatment: Leucojum vernum. Other candidates: Allium ursinum (some of you From bklehm@comcast.net Sun Apr 10 12:58:15 2005 Message-Id: <2697e79a901ebeb511c64085c2973e41@comcast.net> From: Brook Klehm Subject: "Bermudian snowdrop" <> Lodden Lily Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:58:02 -0700 'Gravetye Giant' bulbs I have purchased from commercial sources have flowers 1.5 times the size of the species. L. aestivum is such a weed here in rural, coastal northern California. Gophers move their bulbs around the garden so that I find flowering size bulbs in new locations of the garden each year. This ruins this color scheme gardener's palette. Makes me crazy! However, since they begin to bloom in November and bloom on through the winter until about March, who's to complain? Brook Klehm, Sebastopol, zone 8/9... too cold for most summer dormant South African bulbs, too winter wet for most Central American bulbs and too cool in summer for tropical bulbs! On Apr 10, 2005, at 3:14 AM, JohnCrellin wrote: > I am intending to photograph L. aestivum subsp. aestivum next week - > Dinton > Pastures has been recommended to me. > > On this subject does anyone have information on the distinguishing > features > of Gravetye Giant ? > > John Crellin > > > Reply / forward from John Crellin > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Whyer [mailto:brian.whyer@btinternet.com] > Sent: 09 April 2005 12:12 > To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' > Subject: RE: [pbs] "Bermudian snowdrop" > > Jim > > I find that a strange suggestion. Leucojum aestivum normally has the > trivial > name Loddon Lily in the UK, named after a tributary of the Thames > about 15 > miles from my home, alongside which it grows "wild". If she uses the > latter > name in the book you can rule out the snowdrop name presumably. I will > see > Avon bulbs at the RHS/AGS show in London on Tuesday and will consult > them, > if I remember. Thinking about it, I have never seen them in the wild > and may > go and try a few habitat photos for the wiki. > > Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 > >> Great suggestion, Brian. >> >> I took your advice, and the staff at East Lambrook Manor Gardens came > up >> with the suggestion that the "Bermudian snowdrop" is probably Leucojum >> aestivum. >> >> >> Jim McKenney >> jimmckenney@starpower.net >> Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Leucojum aestivum > is >> blooming here now. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From john@crellin.org.uk Sun Apr 10 13:08:22 2005 Message-Id: From: "JohnCrellin" Subject: "Bermudian snowdrop" <> Lodden Lily Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:08:06 +0100 Thank you. If this is the only difference I am a little suspicious whether 'Gravetye Giant' is much different from L. aestivum subsp. aestivum which has larger flowers than subsp. pulchellum according to Stace. But I will see what the "wild" ones on the River Lodden are like before I say any more ! Do your 'Gravetye Giant' flower stems have smooth sharp edges or slightly denticulate ones ? (I realize it's a bit late to ask from what you say !) You are lucky your little gardeners re-plant the bulbs. Badgers here (Somerset, UK) just dig them up... John Crellin Reply / forward from John Crellin -----Original Message----- From: Brook Klehm [mailto:bklehm@comcast.net] Sent: 10 April 2005 17:58 To: john@crellin.org.uk; Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] "Bermudian snowdrop" <> Lodden Lily 'Gravetye Giant' bulbs I have purchased from commercial sources have flowers 1.5 times the size of the species. L. aestivum is such a weed here in rural, coastal northern California. Gophers move their bulbs around the garden so that I find flowering size bulbs in new locations of the garden each year. This ruins this color scheme gardener's palette. Makes me crazy! However, since they begin to bloom in November and bloom on through the winter until about March, who's to complain? Brook Klehm, Sebastopol, zone 8/9... too cold for most summer dormant South African bulbs, too winter wet for most Central American bulbs and too cool in summer for tropical bulbs! On Apr 10, 2005, at 3:14 AM, JohnCrellin wrote: > I am intending to photograph L. aestivum subsp. aestivum next week - > Dinton Pastures has been recommended to me. > > On this subject does anyone have information on the distinguishing > features of Gravetye Giant ? > > John Crellin > > > Reply / forward from John Crellin > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Whyer [mailto:brian.whyer@btinternet.com] > Sent: 09 April 2005 12:12 > To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' > Subject: RE: [pbs] "Bermudian snowdrop" > > Jim > > I find that a strange suggestion. Leucojum aestivum normally has the > trivial name Loddon Lily in the UK, named after a tributary of the > Thames about 15 miles from my home, alongside which it grows "wild". > If she uses the latter name in the book you can rule out the snowdrop > name presumably. I will see Avon bulbs at the RHS/AGS show in London > on Tuesday and will consult them, if I remember. Thinking about it, I > have never seen them in the wild and may go and try a few habitat > photos for the wiki. > > Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 > >> Great suggestion, Brian. >> >> I took your advice, and the staff at East Lambrook Manor Gardens came > up >> with the suggestion that the "Bermudian snowdrop" is probably >> Leucojum aestivum. >> >> >> Jim McKenney >> jimmckenney@starpower.net >> Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Leucojum >> aestivum > is >> blooming here now. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From msittner@mcn.org Sun Apr 10 15:33:28 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050410123219.02bf15f0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Gentle Reminder Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:32:51 -0700 Dear All, For the sake of the digest subscribers please do not include the previous message you are responding to when you reply. A couple lines is sufficient. Thanks everyone for your help in this. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator From msittner@mcn.org Mon Apr 11 01:43:47 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050410222542.029be620@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Gladiolus pictures from Bob Werra Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:44:22 -0700 Hi, I split up the Southern African Gladiolus page on the wiki as it was getting very long. I have added some of Bob Werra's pictures to these pages. Many of them we already have and I hope I identified them all correctly as his notes on the CD had question marks by them. Feel free to let us know if they should be named something else. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Southern%20African%20Gladiolus%20A-L New pictures of Gladiolus caeruleus, Gladiolus carinatus, Gladiolus caryophyllaceus, Gladiolus gracilis, Gladiolus hirsutus http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Southern%20African%20Gladiolus%20M-Z New pictures of Gladiolus venustus and a new species, Gladiolus watsonii. The latter is one of those former Homoglossums. Looking at his picture of Gladiolus caryophyllaceus I was reminded that I saw this species in Western Australia where it has escaped. I thought it was very pretty and wanted to grow it. I've found it very difficult to keep it going. I ended up with one plant that often has sickly looking leaves. Bob Werra sent me seed since he grows it and now a couple years later those leaves don't look very good either. I am concluding that it probably doesn't like my wet climate and will never be invasive here. Mary Sue From Zonneveld@rulbim.leidenuniv.nl Mon Apr 11 03:48:30 2005 Message-Id: <425A47DF.17026.18F1AD@localhost> From: "zonneveld" Subject: Fertilization Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:48:15 +0200 All bulb fields in Holland are heavely fertilized each year before the bulbs ( tulips narcissi hyacinths) go in That is why they increase in size an number Ben J.M.Zonneveld Institute of Biology,Leiden University, Clusius lab Wassenaarse weg 64, 2333 AL Leiden, The Netherlands Zonneveld@rulbim.Leidenuniv.NL Fax: +31-71-5274999. min temp -10C (15F) From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Mon Apr 11 09:23:04 2005 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: Mystery Veltheimia/Lachenalia Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:27:41 -0300 Hello All: Mary Sue has kindly added a picture of my mystery Veltheimia/Lachenalia to the wikki Veltheimia page. If anyone would care to take a look and offer an opinion on what it might be, the link provided is: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Veltheimia I thank Mary Sue for taking time out of her busy schedule and doing the work to get this on the wikki. When the creature blooms, I will make the attempt to post pictures myself. Any comments are appreciated. Rand From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon Apr 11 09:45:45 2005 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Mystery Veltheimia/Lachenalia Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:45:44 +0000 "Any comments are appreciated. > >Rand" Hi Rand: What a turmoil you produced with your Eucomis looking Lachenalia!! It could never be capensis in which the foliage is very greyish and not shiny at all. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Consigue aquí las mejores y mas recientes ofertas de trabajo en América Latina y USA: http://latam.msn.com/empleos/ From paige@hillkeep.ca Tue Apr 12 01:08:47 2005 Message-Id: <004101c53f1d$b14ecc60$628157d1@m6u3j5> From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: Fertilization Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:07:41 -0700 Ben Zonneveld, with great respect: other reasons that bulbs in the Netherlands rapidly increase in size and number are the same elsewhere in the world: -- sometimes the growing fields are healthy soil -- sometimes the growing fields are sterilized -- sometimes plants are minutely observed and selected for traits such as rapid production of offsets. Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "zonneveld" To: Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:48 AM Subject: [pbs] Fertilization > All bulb fields in Holland are heavely fertilized each year before the > bulbs ( tulips narcissi hyacinths) go in That is why they increase in > size an number > Ben J.M.Zonneveld > Institute of Biology,Leiden University, Clusius lab > Wassenaarse weg 64, 2333 AL Leiden, The Netherlands > Zonneveld@rulbim.Leidenuniv.NL > Fax: +31-71-5274999. min temp -10C (15F) > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From merrill@gamblegarden.org Tue Apr 12 10:54:53 2005 Message-Id: <20050412145453.475AF3C6AD@cmlapp25.siteprotect.com> From: "Merrill Jensen" Subject: Fertilization Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:54:52 -0700 I don't' mean to throw a spanner in the works, but how is it possible to ever have a healthy soil if a field has been sterilized? Once you wipe out all of the beneficial micro-organisms, it always seems that it's the pathogenic ones that come back first, making it necessary to get on the chemical treadmill to have a saleable crop. As an old organic grower, I've found that if you maintain a healthy soil, the incidence of disease is much less or non-existent. Merrill Palo Alto, CA zone 9/10 -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Pacific Rim Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 10:08 PM To: zonneveld@RULBIM.Leidenuniv.nl; Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Fertilization Ben Zonneveld, with great respect: other reasons that bulbs in the Netherlands rapidly increase in size and number are the same elsewhere in the world: -- sometimes the growing fields are healthy soil -- sometimes the growing fields are sterilized -- sometimes plants are minutely observed and selected for traits such as rapid production of offsets. Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "zonneveld" To: Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:48 AM Subject: [pbs] Fertilization > All bulb fields in Holland are heavely fertilized each year before the > bulbs ( tulips narcissi hyacinths) go in That is why they increase in > size an number > Ben J.M.Zonneveld > Institute of Biology,Leiden University, Clusius lab > Wassenaarse weg 64, 2333 AL Leiden, The Netherlands > Zonneveld@rulbim.Leidenuniv.NL > Fax: +31-71-5274999. min temp -10C (15F) > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Apr 12 11:18:38 2005 Message-Id: <2ee254b2ee22a1.2ee22a12ee254b@rdc-nyc.rr.com> From: arnold@nj.rr.com Subject: Fertilization Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:18:35 -0400 Merrill: It could be that they re-inoculate the field with only beneficals following sterilization. They may also accept that the beneficals are destroyed and use chemicals to boost production. I can only guess that the "Dutch Bulb" culture is not an organic operation. Arnold From Nancy.Gilbert@beale.af.mil Tue Apr 12 11:24:45 2005 Message-Id: <788ADF272F4A4E4891F6BB86894D239A81F62E@fsbaey08> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC Subject: Dichelostemma capitatum Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:26:51 +0100 Thanks Jerry. That is a useful bit of information. I sometimes think D. capitatum should be developed into a viable food crop(gasp!). It certainly was a significant component of the indigenous peoples' diet. -Nancy -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of jflintoff@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 3:01 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Dichelostemma capitatum Nancy,Paige et al When I lived in Seattle Dichelostemma capitatum was almost a weed in raised beds and gravel paths, which wasn't a problem since it makes such a great cut flower and the plants don't bother other plants growing close by. Of course, the seed heads could have been cut off, but I am not a tidy person. The seeds of this stock came from plants growing on the trail to Dog Mountain on the Washington side of the Columbia River Gorge. Long ago the plant was native to bluffs in the Seattle/Tacoma area but it was extirpated before my time. I would think that this species would be easy in Vancouver, BC. Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washington,USA Zone 8 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jshields104@insightbb.com Tue Apr 12 11:32:31 2005 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050412103006.00b00490@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Spring in Central Indiana Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:32:26 -0500 Hi all, There are loads of Narcissi in bloom all over the place. Many Narcissus bulbs received new from Dave Karnstadt last year are in bloom here for the first time. I like them all! Narcissus calcicola is in bloom in the rock garden. One lone surviving N. assoanus is also in flower there. Bellevalia pycnantha is sending up nice blue buds, and Scilla rosenii is in bloom. Iris magnifica -- my one surviving plant from three planted several years ago -- is in bloom. It looks like it is starting to increase a bit, too. Chinodoxa saundersii is in bloom. Lots of Trillium coming up and a few buds showing, but the T. nivale are finished blooming and the rest have not opened yet. The new growth includes TT. recurvatum, sessile, and cunneatum in bud, with T. grandiflorum starting to come up and the barest tips of T. flexipes showing above ground. Claytonia virginica and Dicentra cucullaria are in full flower now. Some yellow Erythronium americanum are starting to open. Corydalis solida is blooming and Primula vulgaris is in flower. Anemone blanda 'White Supreme' is blooming. One Fritillaria thunbergii (?) is in bloom. The lone survivor from a batch of a couple dozen bulbs of various Chinese Frits obtained several years ago. Commercial bulbs of Fritillaria pallidiflora are in bud, as is one seedling plant of F. pallidiflora. Frit. crassifolia kurdica from Jane McGary are up in the rock garden and again in bud. Last year they set lots of seeds, which I scattered around the main clump. Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From DaveKarn@aol.com Tue Apr 12 11:39:52 2005 Message-Id: <154.4ef0e043.2f8d45c5@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: Fertilization Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:39:49 EDT All ~ With all this discussion of fertilizing the Dutch bulb fields, I've seen no mention of climate. The climate is cool year round and downright cold in Winter (Hans Brinker, et al!) and often quite wet and greatly affected by storms off the North Sea. Spring-flowering bulbs grow well in cool, wet climates that do dry out some in the summer. I can yet vividly recall my last trip to Holland when going around to the various growers to look at their fields. I was wearing virtually every stitch of clothing I had packed in a vain attempt to ward off the bone-chilling cold that was being driven through the layers and into the 'ol bod by winds so strong they were blowing the rain and sleet horizontally across the landscape! If it hadn't been for the steaming mugs of coffee and energy-restoring goodies in the warm kitchens of the growers, I really think that I would have stopped functioning somewhere in the middle of one of those fields until thawing out on one of the rare, warm Spring days . . . Too, the soil in the North polders is pure sand with the addition of some humus in the form of old manure and the covering straw of Winter. Any nutrients applied to the soil (in whatever form) are soon leached by the rains. And, it should be pointed out, that any organic fertilizer applied to the soil can only be absorbed by the plant in inorganic form. That is not to say a healthy soil, filled with an abundance of humus and associated organisms, is not something to be striven for; it is. Many experiments have been done with soils of this nature and, of course, have found that plants are far more robust and growing without many of the common ailments they seem to have in less healthy soil. Best, Dave Karnstedt Cascade Daffodils P. O. Box 237 Silverton, OR 97381-0237 email: davekarn@AOL.com From Nancy.Gilbert@beale.af.mil Tue Apr 12 13:40:53 2005 Message-Id: <788ADF272F4A4E4891F6BB86894D239A81F637@fsbaey08> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC Subject: erythroniums Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:43:04 -0700 Nancy, Which species of erythroniums are you looking for? Nancy Gilbert Far West Bulb Farm -----Original Message----- From: Nancy Wallace [mailto:dodona@mac.com] Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 7:05 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] erythroniums John Lonsdale (Edgewood Gardens) suggested I contact Diana Chapman of Telos Bulbs to see if she could provide a source of these bulbs for me. I have a client who has been trying to locate some. Can anyone help me? Nancy Wallace grassroots girls, llc 3579 W. Lawrenceville Street Duluth, GA 30096 678-475-9444 SKYPE ID: grassrootsgirlsnancy www.grassrootsgirls.com Retail Garden Accessories & Landscape Design _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From eagle85@flash.net Tue Apr 12 16:57:23 2005 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Mystery Veltheimia/Lachenalia Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:58:03 -0700 Rand NicholsonDoug Westfall writserv@nbnet.nb.ca1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Any comments are appreciated. > > Rand > _______ I will certainly "stake my word" that this is no other than Veltheimia bracteata. Doug Westfall From piabinha@yahoo.com Tue Apr 12 17:05:46 2005 Message-Id: <20050412210545.83618.qmail@web51902.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Veltheimia bracteata vs. capensis Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:05:44 -0700 (PDT) hi everybody, thanks for all your replies. well, now i'm somewhat disappointed because it seems that what i received as capensis is actually bracteata, which i already had, so all my bulbs are bracteata (viridiflora). which btw, it is also what it seems to be rand's plant. one of my plants look like it's about to bloom again. last year's blooms blasted (due to being kept too cold?), but they don't seem to have any problems forming new bulbs. tsuh yang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From dkramb@badbear.com Tue Apr 12 17:08:06 2005 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20050412170508.01cd4760@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Spring in Central Indiana Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:08:07 -0400 >One Fritillaria thunbergii (?) is in bloom. The lone survivor from a batch >of a couple dozen bulbs of various Chinese Frits obtained several years >ago. Commercial bulbs of Fritillaria pallidiflora are in bud, as is one >seedling plant of F. pallidiflora. Frit. crassifolia kurdica from Jane >McGary are up in the rock garden and again in bud. Last year they set lots >of seeds, which I scattered around the main clump. My F. michailovskyi (sp?) are blooming now. They come back reliably each & every year. I also have a couple F. meleagris (sp?) but those aren't blooming yet. Dennis in Cincy From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Tue Apr 12 20:29:47 2005 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: fertilizing bulbs Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 00:29:46 +0000 Dear all: What an interesting thread. After all, improper fertilization is the second cause of bulb loss, after improper drainage. Truly regret not to have the time to mingle more often. Some comments Yes, the reason for proper cultivation of Dutch bulbs is the North Sea climate. It provides perfect conditions for ....those that can be grown in the North Sea climate. There are not many places where fields of tulips, hyacinths, Fritillaria imperialis, etc., could be seen like there. No amount of fertilizer would produce such crops if the range of temperatures were not adequate for growth. Yes, the Dutch bulb farm fields are former sand dunes added with peat in enormous amounts to provide some nutrient retention. They are leached very rapidly hence the apparently enormous quantities of fertilizer..Actually, this case is studied in plant nutrition as one in which quantities (kindly quoted by Jim) can be very misleading. If applied to normal soils they would burn roots and grow soft, juicy plants that would attract pests like beacons. In the Dutch bulb fields they are just enough. Yes, an "organic"" soil would contain very few pests that would devour each other to reach a peaceful balance. Unfortunately, this can be achieved in a small garden or plot by adding really substantial quantities of organic matter which in the Dutch bulb fields is unthinkable. The problem they have and that force them to sterilize the soil is nematodes that spread viruses while feeding and living on the bulbous plants roots. In the past strong chemicals were used to control the nematode population but now these are forbidden (the chemicals, not the nematodes!). Among them methyl bromide was easygoing but later found to have terrible effects on the ozone layer and banned. Dutch bulb producers are desperate with these problems and have come to find more environmentally friendly procedures (like flooding the bulb fields in summer when the bulbs have been lifted to interrupt the nematode life cycle). They know well how dangerous viruses are to their crops and in fact lots of Narcissus, Scilla, Brodiaea 'Konigin Fabiola', reticulata and Dutch irises, alliums, muscaris and a number of others can not be cleaned of their virus infection in any affordable way. A lot of research is being carried on along this but results are less than mild. The general consensus among them is not to worry so long as viruses do not affect the sales. Yes, the information provided first and that kicked the ball rolling concerning bulbs (winter growing ones, of course) being able to use nutrients in the Fall period between root emision and leaf emergence and that raised so many eyebrows originally came from the Dutch Bub Growers Association research laboratories, not a cookbook recipe as someone mentioned. Admittedly it sounded odd the first time I learn about it since it seems so obvious that "no leaf, no feed" but a number of experiments proved it right. Rodger's experience along with Mr. Zonneveld mention of a Fall fertilizer application point to it. Actually, it makes a lot of sense because many of these cold climate bulbs use the Fall rains to produce roots that remain alive and waiting for the snow melting (in the wild) to produce foliage and flowers all within a rather short time. It is logic that these roots would take any advantage to capture whatever nutrient is available even if "no leaf". As for info on potassium affecting the availability of magnesium, comparatively few bulbs will suffer from magnesium shortage, mainly those growing on dolomite: some bearded irises, Junos, Reticulatas, some tulips, Ungernias, etc. All the others are positively affected by potassium supply, including those from the four corners of the world and those that are poisoned by phosphorous like South Africans and Australians. As for the fact mentioned that bulb plants would not be able to absorb nutrients between the flower production and the beginning of dormancy, only few of them had their leaves gone by flowering time: Leucocorynes, Conantheras, Zephyra, Calochortus, Brodiaea, Pabellonia, etc. The rest have leaves then and are very active manufacturing food to fatten the bulb. On our behalf concerning our frequent errors in fertilizing our bulbs it must be pointed out that bulbs are pretty indifferent and do not apparently react properly to nutrients provided! I suggest you the use of indicator plants. These must no be monocots but rather frugal, not fussy and quite easy to grow dicots. My favorite for this climate is Lamium maculatum, you see, no exotic gem. Apply a weak solution (as weak as you want, even VERY weak) of a foliar formula fertilizer to your bulb plants and then to the indicator plant. You will not believe your eyes as the dicot will respond immediately to the extra nutrition by making new growth, even changing the appearance of the adult leaves. This change will last for a long period even one or two months. This will give you a proper idea of how much is too much. By diminishing the amount of fertilizer in the solution you will notice that effects are obtained even with doses that are very minute. Of course you can do it with any type of fertilizer but a foliar formula will give cleaner resutls as there will be no danger of the soil meddling and blocking some elements. Bob's naive question is not naive, he knows what he means. He is an experienced grower and a friend of the late Stan Farwig who had a fabulous collection in the Bay Area. Stan had made a number of experiments concerning complete formula fertilizers and found that they adversely affected his plants and stopped using them altogether. Yes, yes, improper fertilizing shortens a bulb life. Strangely (or not) there are very few bulbs native the very nutrient rich pampas of Argentina and Uruguay. And countless ones in the miserably poor soils of South Africa. African Violet fertilizers have high potassium formulae. Are they available in your area? All the best Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Visita MSN Latino Noticias: Todo lo que pasa en el mundo y en tu paín, ¡en tu idioma! http://latino.msn.com/noticias/ From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Tue Apr 12 21:04:33 2005 Message-Id: <001b01c53fc4$c12674b0$0be79851@2CVEVE1> From: "Brian Whyer" Subject: fertilizing bulbs Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 02:04:33 +0100 > African Violet fertilizers have high potassium formulae. Are they available > in your area? Those of us that regularly read the SRGS website will know that straight potassium sulphate (Sulphate of Potash) is used by many growers in the UK, and elsewhere. E.g. http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/321/369.html?1109366439 and much more information in the bulb logs on the website. Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Wed Apr 13 03:21:19 2005 Message-Id: <005e01c53ff9$5b886840$deee403e@John> From: Subject: Leucojum aestivum, Loddon Lily Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:19:48 +0100 I was intrigued by John Crellin's question about Leucojum aestivum and the differences between ssp. aestivum and ssp. pulchellum, so spent a few minutes yesterday scrutinising various stocks in my parents' garden. In L. aestivum the scape is somewhat flattened and it has two 'sharp' edges. This edge is what botanists term scarious, i.e. unpigmented and translucent, as can be seen if you hold it to the light. In ssp. aestivum this margin has a scattering minute bumps along it. They can be seen with the naked eye, but a lens would be better, and they can also be felt if you run a finger along the edge. These bumps are said to be always absent in ssp. pulchellum - as they are in my plants, but it is a rather tenuous character. More useful for gardeners is the fact that ssp. pulhellum flowers 2-3 weeks earlier than ssp. aestivum, with smaller flowers: it is nearly finished here. 'Gravetye Giant' is undoubtedly a selection of ssp. aestivum, distributed from William Robinson's garden at Gravetye Manor many years ago. It is certainly bigger than the average L. aestivum seen in gardens. It has great presence by a pond, for example. It's the only named clone in general circulation, but the few of us who are interested in L. aestivum rate the one distributed by Primrose Warburg as 'Nancy Lindsay's Best Form' to be far superior. It is shorter but the flowers have a good rounded outline and present a much more solid appearance than those of 'Gravetye Giant, which has a much narrower bell. Nancy Lindsay's clone came from the south of France. The origin of most cultivated L. aestivum is not clear: it is found across Europe to the Crimea and the eastern side of the Black Sea, and I suspect that some trade material is imported from the wild. It would be nice to know the more about the pattern of variation in the wild. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 Mobile 07 919 840 063 Fax (Estate Office) 01242 870541 Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "JohnCrellin" Subject: RE: [pbs] "Bermudian snowdrop" <> Lodden Lily > Thank you. If this is the only difference I am a little suspicious whether > 'Gravetye Giant' is much different from L. aestivum subsp. aestivum which > has larger flowers than subsp. pulchellum according to Stace. But I will see > what the "wild" ones on the River Lodden are like before I say any more ! > > Do your 'Gravetye Giant' flower stems have smooth sharp edges or slightly > denticulate ones ? (I realize it's a bit late to ask from what you say !) > >> From Zonneveld@rulbim.leidenuniv.nl Wed Apr 13 03:26:36 2005 Message-Id: <425CE5BE.32230.B303A@localhost> From: "zonneveld" Subject: Sunny days Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:26:22 +0200 Hello dave You had bad luck, the weather is not that bad in The Netherlands. We have an average of 30 inch ( 75 cm ) of rain in a year, more or less spread evenly in all seasons. Ben J.M.Zonneveld Institute of Biology,Leiden University, Clusius lab Wassenaarse weg 64, 2333 AL Leiden, The Netherlands Zonneveld@rulbim.Leidenuniv.NL Fax: +31-71-5274999. min temp -10C (15F) From john@crellin.org.uk Wed Apr 13 03:41:45 2005 Message-Id: From: "JohnCrellin" Subject: Leucojum aestivum, Loddon Lily Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:41:36 +0100 That is useful and I endorse your call for more study in the wild. The "bumps" on the stem *are* a tenuous character but botanists seem reluctant to take flowering time as a characteristic. However, in this case I do feel a pattern of ssp. pulchellum flowering earlier than ssp. aestivum is emerging - this all started with me because I realized ssp. pulchellum less than 100 yd from my ssp. aestivum flower three months (!) earlier here in Somerset, UK. I have just returned from the River Lodden (near Reading, Berks UK) and can confirm that the variation in the wild of subsp. aestivum is indeed great - I will be publishing my pictures on my website today. Some plants had flowers with tepals up to 30 mm long. Also greater variation in the form of the flowers. (All those I inspected had the stem bumps.) Someone needs to get a grant to travel Europe next spring ! Reply / forward from John Crellin I was intrigued by John Crellin's question about Leucojum aestivum and the differences between ssp. aestivum and ssp. pulchellum, so spent a few minutes yesterday scrutinising various stocks in my parents' garden. From Nancy.Gilbert@beale.af.mil Wed Apr 13 12:11:11 2005 Message-Id: <788ADF272F4A4E4891F6BB86894D239A81F651@fsbaey08> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC Subject: fertilizing bulbs Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:12:57 +0100 Does potassium sulfate acidify the soil or potting mix? Thanks. Nancy Gilbert -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Brian Whyer Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 6:05 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: RE: [pbs] fertilizing bulbs > African Violet fertilizers have high potassium formulae. Are they available > in your area? Those of us that regularly read the SRGS website will know that straight potassium sulphate (Sulphate of Potash) is used by many growers in the UK, and elsewhere. E.g. http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/321/369.html?1109366439 and much more information in the bulb logs on the website. Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jshields@indy.net Wed Apr 13 12:50:56 2005 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050413114948.00b00a70@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: fertilizing bulbs Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:50:51 -0500 Potassium sulfate should not affect pH. It is itself neutral in reaction -- neither basic nor acidic. Jim Shields At 05:12 PM 4/13/2005 +0100, you wrote: >Does potassium sulfate acidify the soil or potting mix? >Thanks. >Nancy Gilbert > >-----Original Message----- >From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] >On Behalf Of Brian Whyer >Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 6:05 PM >To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' >Subject: RE: [pbs] fertilizing bulbs > > > > African Violet fertilizers have high potassium formulae. Are they >available > > in your area? > >Those of us that regularly read the SRGS website will know that straight >potassium sulphate (Sulphate of Potash) is used by many growers in the UK, >and elsewhere. > >E.g. http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/321/369.html?1109366439 > >and much more information in the bulb logs on the website. > >Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From Nancy.Gilbert@beale.af.mil Wed Apr 13 12:52:46 2005 Message-Id: <788ADF272F4A4E4891F6BB86894D239A81F659@fsbaey08> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC Subject: fertilizing bulbs Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:54:49 -0700 Thanks Jim -----Original Message----- From: J.E. Shields [mailto:jshields@indy.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:51 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: RE: [pbs] fertilizing bulbs Potassium sulfate should not affect pH. It is itself neutral in reaction -- neither basic nor acidic. Jim Shields At 05:12 PM 4/13/2005 +0100, you wrote: >Does potassium sulfate acidify the soil or potting mix? Thanks. >Nancy Gilbert > >-----Original Message----- >From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org >[mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] >On Behalf Of Brian Whyer >Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 6:05 PM >To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' >Subject: RE: [pbs] fertilizing bulbs > > > > African Violet fertilizers have high potassium formulae. Are they >available > > in your area? > >Those of us that regularly read the SRGS website will know that >straight potassium sulphate (Sulphate of Potash) is used by many >growers in the UK, and elsewhere. > >E.g. http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/321/369.html?1109366439 > >and much more information in the bulb logs on the website. > >Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From dells@voicenet.com Thu Apr 14 07:02:00 2005 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 86 Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 07:01:01 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by people from all over the world, to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 86" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER.. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Alberto Castillo: SEED: (W = winter growing; S = summer growing; SE = summer growing evergreen) 1. Zephyranthes macrosiphon S 2. Cooperia morrisclintii S 3. Cypella aquatilis W 4. Zephyranthes longistyla S 5. Gelasine uruguaiensis ssp. orientalis W 6. Zephyranthes macrosiphon S 7. Habranthus martinezii W 8. Lachenalia contaminata W 9. Gelasine elongata (azurea) W 10. Allium vineale W 11. Habranthus coeruleus W 12. Habranthus pedunculosus W 13. Zephyrantes katherinae yellow S 14. Albuca spiralis W Thank you, Alberto!! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Thu Apr 14 08:47:12 2005 Message-Id: <000b01c540f0$1514f1b0$5ae28156@2CVEVE1> From: "Brian Whyer" Subject: Alstroemeria from seed Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:47:13 +0100 I am growing some ex alstroemeria ligtu hybrid from seed, and would like advice on at what stage I should prick out, in view of the high losses from trying to divide the brittle roots of adult hybrid plants. At present I have ~12 seedlings in a 2 1/2" pot varying from just emerging to 2" tall with 3 leaves. They are outside but protected from rain, so are not too soft. Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 Where recent night time frosts have hit tricyrtis growth, and my first Beschornia septentrionalis flower spike. From jshields104@insightbb.com Thu Apr 14 08:51:44 2005 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050414075120.01e52c70@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Where are the Beautiful Gardens? Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 07:51:42 -0500 Hi all, I was recently asked by a local garden writer to suggest some really beautiful private gardens that she could photograph and write about. I was amazed to find that the question nearly stumped me! So if you can think of such, especially in the Indiana-Illinois-Michigan-Ohio area, please let me know. You can do it privately if you prefer, but please give me some contact information. I'll need to e-mail or telephone before I turn the names and addresses over to the garden writer. Thanks! Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Thu Apr 14 12:03:39 2005 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Alstroemeria from seed Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:03:38 +0000 "I am growing some ex alstroemeria ligtu hybrid from seed, and would like >advice on at what stage I should prick out, in view of the high losses >from trying to divide the brittle roots of adult hybrid plants. At >present I have ~12 seedlings in a 2 1/2" pot varying from just emerging >to 2" tall with 3 leaves. They are outside but protected from rain, so >are not too soft." Hi Brian: Better not to prick out. Sow individually in cells and transplant with the whole rootball. Planting in shallow containers Alstroemerias do not develop the fragile "threads" that connect the tuberous roots to the rhizome. Hence, a more solid "bulb". Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Las mejores tiendas, los precios mas bajos, entregas en todo el mundo, YupiMSN Compras: http://latam.msn.com/compras/ From msittner@mcn.org Thu Apr 14 20:02:08 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050414165323.01fe2c80@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Scoliopus Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:02:02 -0700 Hi, Gerhard Stickroth sent me a picture of Scoliopus bigelovii blooming in Germany grown by friend Josef Mayr who has given permission to add it to the wiki. I was quite amazed to see all these flowers together since in the wild it is tucked into corners here and there in the shady forest so I've never seen a photo opportunity where you could capture so many flowers at once. Also since this plant usually grows in the shade, the lack of light and shadows make good pictures a challenge. Josef is growing his plants in full sun in a former pond where he has changed the soil. I always find it fascinating to learn about the different ways people grow plants successfully. I don't know how cold it is where he lives, but he has found a system that works. Read about it and see the picture below. I guess I need to give my plants more nutrients and more light besides the new regimen of additional summer water. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Scoliopus Mary Sue From rmsachs@ucdavis.edu Thu Apr 14 20:17:20 2005 Message-Id: From: "Roy M. Sachs" Subject: Alstroemeria from seed Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:23:56 -0700 >I am growing some ex alstroemeria ligtu hybrid from seed, and would like >advice on at what stage I should prick out, in view of the high losses >from trying to divide the brittle roots of adult hybrid plants. At >present I have ~12 seedlings in a 2 1/2" pot varying from just emerging >to 2" tall with 3 leaves. They are outside but protected from rain, so >are not too soft. > >Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 >Where recent night time frosts have hit tricyrtis growth, and my first >Beschornia septentrionalis flower spike. I've pulled ligtu seedlings at the 2 or 3 leaf stage and I've also let them go until they were dormant and had formed a small rhizome. The latter transplanted well, about the same as the large clumps I always dig when I'm dividing well-established ligtu. Some seedlings when they're divided in the green growing stage are easily broken right below the first leaves...when that has happened I've usually lost the seedling so that was another inducement to wait until the seedlings had gone dormant (I have some now in a tray that are a few weeks away from becoming dormant). Roy Sachs From jshields104@insightbb.com Thu Apr 14 21:57:38 2005 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050414205316.01e4e8c0@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Fritillaria seeding around Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:57:16 -0500 Hi all, Last year, Fritillaria pallidiflora growing in my woodland garden set lots of seed. I scattered it right around the mother plants. Voila! There are lots of thread-like little seedlings starting to come up right there. Not in the shade, but F. crassifolia kurdica in the rock garden (full sun) is in bloom and has a few new seedlings starting to come up around it. F. acmopetala, also in full sun, has set seed for the past few years, and there are lots of seedlings coming up around the bloom-size plants. Trillium cuneatum (one plant anyway) is in bloom. T. grandiflorum flower buds are starting to show a little bit of white color. The other trilliums are up, mainly, but none in bloom yet. Of course, T. nivale, the tiny Snow Trillium, finished blooming a couple weeks ago. One Arisaema triphyllum and my lone A. kishidae are each sending a spear up. None of the other Arisaema plants has so far ventured above ground. Regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From Antennaria@aol.com Thu Apr 14 23:20:11 2005 Message-Id: <12e.5bf79f59.2f908ce7@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Muscari IDs needed Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:20:07 EDT Hi, I have two rogue individual Muscari species blooming. I believe the plants resulted from dumping out old ungerminated seed pots, so I have little idea about what they might be. I'd appreciate any ID suggestions. The first one has several small boat-spaped leaves, and a tight spike of azure blue flowers, about 3-4" tall. http://www.plantbuzz.com/Buzz/Muscari_ID_1.jpg The second has a single enveloping leaf, and very dark purple buds. I think this one might be M. latifolium. http://www.plantbuzz.com/Buzz/Muscari_ID_2.jpg Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From dkramb@badbear.com Thu Apr 14 23:32:05 2005 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20050414233131.01cb3528@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Muscari IDs needed Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:32:05 -0400 >The first one has several small boat-spaped leaves, and a tight spike of >azure blue flowers, about 3-4" tall. >http://www.plantbuzz.com/Buzz/Muscari_ID_1.jpg I have one like this called 'Valerie Finnis'. I don't know if it's a species or hybrid, though. Dennis in Cincy From JFlintoff@aol.com Fri Apr 15 02:31:15 2005 Message-Id: <8c.250f5305.2f90b9af@aol.com> From: JFlintoff@aol.com Subject: Muscari IDs needed Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 02:31:11 EDT Mark You have in the pale blue one Muscari azureum and the dark one with a single leaf is as you surmise M. latifolium. Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washington,USA Zone 8 From boutin@goldrush.com Fri Apr 15 02:36:48 2005 Message-Id: <000b01c54185$b5604c10$1e3d7143@homecomputer> From: "boutin" Subject: Narcissus poeticus verbanensis Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:38:16 -0700 Does anyone grow the dwarf poet narcissus variety called verbanensis or sometimes N. X verbanensis? Native to the grassy slopes above Lago Maggiore, northern Italy. Are bulbs or seed available anywhere? Fred Boutin Tuolumne, CA From Zonneveld@rulbim.leidenuniv.nl Fri Apr 15 08:35:56 2005 Message-Id: <425FD13D.4678.10E6E50@localhost> From: "zonneveld" Subject: potassium sulfate Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:35:41 +0200 Although Jim is right in stating that potassium sulfate is more or neutral that does not exclude a change in pH. It strongly depends on what is used first or fastest. If the potassium is used fastests the soil will acidify , if the sulfate is used fastest the soil will become alkaline. An example: depending on the nitrogen source the pH in a petridish with fungal grow will turn acid neutral or basic. If ammoniumsulfate is ued the agar turns acid , if Sodium nitrate is used the agar turns alkaline , if pepton is ued the agar stays more or less neutral. I would not use a single salt, choose a well balanced mix suitable for what you wants i.e with high nitrogen for growth or low nitrogen for flowers and ripening Ben J.M.Zonneveld Institute of Biology,Leiden University, Clusius lab Wassenaarse weg 64, 2333 AL Leiden, The Netherlands Zonneveld@rulbim.Leidenuniv.NL Fax: +31-71-5274999. min temp -10C (15F) From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Apr 15 09:33:17 2005 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: (Fritillaria) Bulbs seeding around Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:33:39 -0500 Dear Jim and all; This got me thinking about hardy bulbs in colder climates seeding around AT ALL. I'd say fairly few hardy bulbs seed around. None in numbers that might be called weedy. Rarely even pulled out. For me it is fairly limited: Narcissus obvallaris (Tenby Daff) Eranthis hymalis Scilla siberica (but I have seen this a ground cover "weed" in a perfect spot nearby) Lilium formosanum Lilium lancifolium (fertile form, bulbils* too) Iris magnifica Iris lactea Pinellia pedatisecta (not other species) Allium (nothing comes to mind) just recalled a few A. zebdanense Lycoris -just found a few seedlings this spring Fritillaria (none) Tulips (none) might be something else. Anyone else in a cold climate experiencing self sown bulb seedlings? Personally I'd LIKE to have more things seed around. Looking for suggestions of hardy bulbs that are so inclined. Appreciate new candidates. Best Jim W. * A few things spread more easily by bulbils including most Pinellia, Tiger Lily, Ranunculus ficaria and surely something else. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From dkramb@badbear.com Fri Apr 15 09:59:44 2005 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20050415095835.01d9da00@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: (Fritillaria) Bulbs seeding around Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:59:44 -0400 Absolutely NONE here in Ohio for me.... I try to get seed by hand pollinating and that frequently comes up fruitless. Self-seeding is a problem I've never encountered with bulbs! Dennis in Cincy From jshields@indy.net Fri Apr 15 10:32:34 2005 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050415091925.01e423f8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: (Fritillaria) Bulbs seeding around Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:32:29 -0500 Hi Dennis, Jim W., and all, Remember that many plants are self-sterile. You need to be sure you have several non-clonal individuals to get seeds. If all your bulbs of a given species came from one of the Dutch mass-marketers, they are probably all from one clone. One good way to get seed is to grow from seeds; try the NARGS seed exchange, etc. Scrounge or beg fresh seeds from your friends, etc. I have had a few dwarf tulips self-seed in the distant past. You need at least two different clones of the same species for this to happen. And you also need rather a lot of luck! Chionodoxa luciliae and Scilla sibirica self-seed all over the place. A couple of my Corydalis seem to be self-seeding, like C. solida (probably 'Beth Evans' x 'George P. Baker') I helped my Fritillaria along by scattering the seeds and scratching a bit of dirt around or over them. And finally, you can't be a neatness-freak and expect to see any seedlings volunteering. Let seed heads stay on the plants till fully ripe and until after the seeds have scattered. (This comes naturally to me; I'm lazy.) Jim Shields in central Indiana At 09:59 AM 4/15/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Absolutely NONE here in Ohio for me.... I try to get seed by hand >pollinating and that frequently comes up fruitless. Self-seeding is a >problem I've never encountered with bulbs! > >Dennis in Cincy > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From arnold@nj.rr.com Fri Apr 15 10:42:39 2005 Message-Id: <2fe48ac2fe8d70.2fe8d702fe48ac@rdc-nyc.rr.com> From: arnold@nj.rr.com Subject: (Fritillaria) Bulbs seeding around Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:42:36 -0400 Jim (s): I have currently eremurus robustus that has seeded around the parent plant that has died and the usual alliums such as A. tuberosum and A. senescens. Fritillaria aurea has produced some small plants which I would imagine are a result of the typical rice grains that one finds around some frits. Arnold From merrill@gamblegarden.org Fri Apr 15 10:49:19 2005 Message-Id: <20050415144919.1934F3CA37@cmlapp25.siteprotect.com> From: "Merrill Jensen" Subject: Scoliopus Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 07:49:16 -0700 Hi Mary Sue, Thanks for sharing! Scoliopus was one of those plants that I looked for while I lived in Oregon, but was never able to locate one. I had also wanted to work it into the collections at the Oregon Garden, but was 'downsized' before that could happen. How do you think it would fair in a woodland in Palo Alto? I've got a good humus soil that comes fairly close to a coastal situation. Anybody have one in the area? Merrill Palo Alto, CA zone 9/10 where the Watsonia borbonica are blooming and I picked up some Wachendorfia thyrsiflora yesterday to try... -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Mary Sue Ittner Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:02 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Scoliopus Hi, Gerhard Stickroth sent me a picture of Scoliopus bigelovii blooming in Germany grown by friend Josef Mayr who has given permission to add it to the wiki. I was quite amazed to see all these flowers together since in the wild it is tucked into corners here and there in the shady forest so I've never seen a photo opportunity where you could capture so many flowers at once. Also since this plant usually grows in the shade, the lack of light and shadows make good pictures a challenge. Josef is growing his plants in full sun in a former pond where he has changed the soil. I always find it fascinating to learn about the different ways people grow plants successfully. I don't know how cold it is where he lives, but he has found a system that works. Read about it and see the picture below. I guess I need to give my plants more nutrients and more light besides the new regimen of additional summer water. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Scoliopus Mary Sue _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From DaveKarn@aol.com Fri Apr 15 11:09:47 2005 Message-Id: <199.3d32975b.2f913332@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: Narcissus poeticus verbanensis Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:09:38 EDT Probably "no" to all your questions. Something like that would only be grown by specialists in poeticus species. This is a not very popular group, so options would, of course, be extremely limited. From Jamievande@freenet.de Fri Apr 15 11:26:58 2005 Message-Id: <004501c541d0$c52e0e20$6502a8c0@Jamie2> From: "Jamie" Subject: (Fritillaria) Bulbs seeding around Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:35:35 +0200 Jim, Jim, et al, I guess I have more luck than most with self seeding. Alliums, such as A. gigantea, A. christophii and A. aflatunence, as well as what I believe to be A. rosenbachianum, seed relatively freely. Frits, such as F. persica and F. meleagris have produced seed regularly, along with F. imperialis, but I tend to sow them and then transplant, but a few do come up in the garden. The same with Arum maculatum, A. italicum and Arisaema triphyllum. Camassia are all over the pond edge, along with various Iris. Oh, and let's not forget the Nectaroscordum! I wish true lilies were like this! What Jim mentioned about fastidious gardening rings a bell with me! I do not do major clean-ups or overly cultivate the ground. I tend to allow litter to build in the shade garden and regularly mulch areas as compost becomes available. My laziness is rewarded with tons of volunteer seedling, which I allow to mature and then weed out the ratty numbers. I have some interesting Heuchera hybrids, as well as Aquilegias and Geraniums (like most of us). Jamie V. Cologne From khixson@nu-world.com Fri Apr 15 13:43:58 2005 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20050415103318.02722760@mail.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Bulbs seeding around Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:43:39 -0700 Hi, All: Jim mentions >Chionodoxa luciliae and Scilla sibirica self-seed all over the place. Chionodoxa "lucilae" self seeds here also. Scilla siberica doesn't. I remade the Chionoscilla X Allenii cross, and it self seeds also. I'm still trying to figure out what my seedlings of this cross should be called, other than mongrels--they're not X Allenii, and the seedlings aren't either- Scilla bifolia seeds a little, not enough. I wish Scilla tubergenii would set seed--I'd like to have one that blooms after it gets out of the ground, instead of as or before it emerges. Cyclamen hederifolium, coum show up here and there. Galanthus regularly set seed pods, but not sure anything results. Narcissus bulbocodium set pods, again nothing seems to result. And no one mentions muscari-- Ken Z7 West coast USA From DaveKarn@aol.com Fri Apr 15 16:27:36 2005 Message-Id: <105.5f10c371.2f917dab@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: (Fritillaria) Bulbs seeding around Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:27:23 EDT In a message dated 4/15/05 10:01:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jwaddick@kc.rr.com writes: > Anyone else in a cold climate experiencing self sown bulb seedlings? > > Personally I'd LIKE to have more things seed around. Looking > for suggestions of hardy bulbs that are so inclined. Appreciate new > candidates. > Hi Jim ~ Don't know if Oregon (Willamette Valley) is a "cold climate." It's certainly not the "southernmost reaches of Imperial Russian Siberia" (as was Minnesota!), but it gets cold enough such that winter temperatures are often in the low twenties and we usually have at least one good snow storm in a given winter. I have a couple of daffodil candidates for you. N. minor and the various selections from this species: 'Little Gem,' 'Bagatelle,' and 'Wee Bee.' With the exception of 'Wee Bee,' each of these plants always sets a huge pod of open pollinated seed. I have to pull them each year to keep things from getting out of control!! Then there are the hybrids stemming from N. bulbocodium x N.cantabricus. If anything might be referred to as a daffodil weed, my vote would go to these vigorous things! Each stem will OP and, here to, I have to remove each pod or the resulting seedlings would hopeless contaminate the clone. N. fernandesii is another that sets quantities of OP seed. Here, however, I usually keep these as I have been told that some good things have come of this seed. If you're interested in daffodil hybrids, there are a number that will usually set a considerable number of OP pods, particularly the 4n jonquil hybrids. Here, too, these are often some that I will keep and germinate along with the other intentional crosses of the season. Lilies will often set many, large pods of seed that can be harvested, planted and grown on to see what one can get! Then there are many forms of crocus that will set seed. Although, here, since there is only one bloom per stem, total seed production is not that great and one does require some warm days during flowering to get the bees out doing their thing. Then there are many allium, ipheion, tulip and so on . . . In Oregon, seed set has usually been greater than it was back in MN with its much severer climate. Dave Karnstedt Silverton, OR From msittner@mcn.org Sat Apr 16 00:22:18 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050415211302.0304d140@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Scoliopus Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:22:40 -0700 Dear Merrill, If you have a source for Scoliopus I think you could try it. Before you joined out list I posted some information from Ian Young who grows it successfully in Scotland and his technique includes adequate fertilize and regular water. A plant I purchased at a CNPS plant sale and planted in my garden in a shady spot did not survive, but I suspect now the soil dried out too much in summer. That spot didn't get much water in summer and what I did provide the redwood roots no doubt sucked up quickly. In the wild Scoliopus plants are often found in very wet spots and are probably far enough down in the ground that the roots do not dry out very much even during our dry summers. I've been adding seed if I come upon it to other areas of my garden hoping to find a place it will like. Time will tell. Mary Sue At 07:49 AM 4/15/05 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Mary Sue, > >Thanks for sharing! Scoliopus was one of those plants that I looked for >while I lived in Oregon, but was never able to locate one. I had also >wanted to work it into the collections at the Oregon Garden, but was >'downsized' before that could happen. How do you think it would fair in a >woodland in Palo Alto? I've got a good humus soil that comes fairly close >to a coastal situation. Anybody have one in the area? > >Merrill >Palo Alto, CA zone 9/10 where the Watsonia borbonica are blooming and I >picked up some Wachendorfia thyrsiflora yesterday to try... > >-----Original Message----- >From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] >On Behalf Of Mary Sue Ittner >Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:02 PM >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: [pbs] Scoliopus > >Hi, > >Gerhard Stickroth sent me a picture of Scoliopus bigelovii blooming in >Germany grown by friend Josef Mayr who has given permission to add it to >the wiki. I was quite amazed to see all these flowers together since in the >wild it is tucked into corners here and there in the shady forest so I've >never seen a photo opportunity where you could capture so many flowers at >once. Also since this plant usually grows in the shade, the lack of light >and shadows make good pictures a challenge. Josef is growing his plants in >full sun in a former pond where he has changed the soil. I always find it >fascinating to learn about the different ways people grow plants >successfully. I don't know how cold it is where he lives, but he has found >a system that works. Read about it and see the picture below. I guess I >need to give my plants more nutrients and more light besides the new >regimen of additional summer water. > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Scoliopus > >Mary Sue > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Sat Apr 16 00:46:51 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050415214532.028a3bd0@mail.mcn.org> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Old seed Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:47:26 -0700 Hi, I think this post got lost when we were trying to figure out why Nancy's messages were bouncing. I am forwarding it for those who I think would find it interesting. Mary Sue To All, We have had good germination results with Lilium humboldtii seed that has been frozen for eight years. We are going to keep experimenting with old lots of frozen seed we received from the Robinetts and verify germination rates. We have also found all the Calochortus sp. that we received and kept frozen have germinated quite well, including lots from as far back as 1989. NANCY GILBERT Grass Valley, California From dells@voicenet.com Sat Apr 16 08:38:57 2005 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 86 CLOSED Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:37:46 -0400 Orders should go out early next week. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From ken@wildlanders.com Sat Apr 16 18:30:57 2005 Message-Id: <42619211.5010504@wildlanders.com> From: Ken Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 27, Issue 1 Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 15:30:41 -0700 Does anyone know the regulations on collecting seed from WA STATE listed threatened plants? In particular, the plants are NOT listed on the federal listings. They are just state listed as threatened. There is tons of information about the listed plants but nothing gives any clear regulations on what can or cannot be done in regards to collections. Can anyone help. -Ken >Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > >You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Erythrina herbacea - Off topic (James W. Waddick) > 2. Erythrina herbacea - Off topic (James W. Waddick) > 3. Re: What is blooming? (Douglas Westfall) > 4. Narcissus Falconet (ConroeJoe@aol.com) > 5. RE: Crocus 'Golden Bunch' (Rodger Whitlock) > 6. Green-flowered Anemone nemorosa (Rodger Whitlock) > 7. Scilla Maderensis (Hugh Povey) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:34:43 -0600 >From: "James W. Waddick" >Subject: [pbs] Erythrina herbacea - Off topic >To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com, canna@yahoogroups.com, > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >Dear Friends; > I have been asked by a research friend in Japan to locate >someone who might be willing to help collect, dry and ship a few >pounds of Erythrina herbacea to isolate specific chemical components. >This can be a somewhat common 'weed' in parts of S. Florida, Texas >and elsewhere along this line. > If you live where this plant grows, know this plant and might >be willing to help out, please write to me directly (NOT to this >list) at and I'll get you directly in touch for >specifics. > Appreciate any suggestions. > > Thanks for the help. > > From DaveKarn@aol.com Sat Apr 16 23:56:05 2005 Message-Id: <1e5.3a574c87.2f93384f@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: Old seed Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 23:55:59 EDT Hello All ~ I have a friend here in Oregon who planted a considerable amount of lily seed (mostly Division 6a-d hybrids. I would bet that a portion of the resulting seedlings were from seed that stemmed from the original strains of Golden Splendor, Pink Perfection, etc.) several years ago that had been frozen for some 25 years! It germinated readily and provided an intersting range of types when the bulbs bloomed. The seed originated with Gilman Keasey of Salem who had been working with lilies in the 1960s and early 1970s until he switched much of his interest to daffodils. Gilman was an interesting individual who, in addition to his plant breeding interests, was also an Olympic archer in the 1920s. In later life, he hand crafted bows that were much-in-demand by archers of all skills. One of the benefits to the Oregon Daffodil Society from that activity is that we got a lot of walnut odds and ends from which we constructed bases for our show tubes. That finished wood made some pretty classy show properties! Dave Karnstedt Silverton, OR From john@floralarchitecture.com Sun Apr 17 11:49:18 2005 Message-Id: <20050417154918.82042.qmail@web50105.mail.yahoo.com> From: John Ingram Subject: Botanical nomenclature Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 08:49:17 -0700 (PDT) I'm finally revamping my web site and need some help. My web designer is not a plant person. Is there a web site somewhere that I can direct him to that simplifies how plant names are to be written? Such as Clivia x cyrtanthiflora vs. Clivia Cyrtanthiflora? I know I'll have to do a lot of proofing but I'd like to shave some time off for him. Thanks in advance for your help. John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) From jlockwood@kalama.com Sun Apr 17 12:33:49 2005 Message-Id: <000e01c54369$dabddc30$2700a8c0@juliejphr6pd0t> From: "Julie" Subject: Introduction Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 09:23:56 -0700 Hello All, I joined PBS at the suggestion of Louise Parsons - Thank you again Louise. I am mainly interested in hardy bulbs which will do well in my area. I've spent many hours over the past few days reviewing the archives - what a vast wealth of information. I have been on a mission to find seed or bulbs of erythronium hendersonii. We have a small nursery on 8 acres of woodlands with several large colonies of our native erythronium oregonum. I collect seed grow these on for several years and then replant in areas of the property where the population is low. We also had a large quantity of our native trillium ovatum. The numbers have been dwindling since neighbors on both sides have removed all large trees and now the deer come over here for their favorite snack - trillium blossoms. My collection of trilliums is as follows: Trillium catesbaei cuneatum erectum var. album (beige) erectum luteum (yellow) erectum var. erectum (red) flexipes kurabayashi luteum ovatum pusillum recurvatum sessile staminium These seeds/plants are not for sale but I am very interested in trades for other seeds/plants on my want list. Please contact me off list julie@shadylanenursery.com Julie Lockwood Shadylane Nursery Washington State, USA Zone 8 www.shadylanenursery.com From msittner@mcn.org Sun Apr 17 14:15:07 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050415214755.028a0940@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Bulbs in Bloom Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 11:15:32 -0700 Dear All, I am often asked when is my garden at its best and I'm not sure when to answer. Those early blooms are so exciting that at the moment they appear I am quite entranced. Late winter through spring is probably best in a Mediterranean garden. Many of my South African bulbs are done now, but there are those that bloom later just as my California bulbs are starting and those combinations with spring blooms from my shrubs are making me want to spend all day in my garden at the moment just wandering around and taking it all in. It seems appropriate to mention that my Homerias (aka Moraea, Homeria subgroup) are rather amazing at the moment. I know Jim Waddick only was interested in things that reseed in hardy climates, but there is no reason why some of the rest of us can't mention what appears for us when we don't get around to deadheading. I do cut off the seed pods now if I get around to it of the things that reseed in my garden in great quantity like Freesia alba, Sparaxis, Ixia, Babiana, Homeria, Ipheion, Geissorhiza inaequalis, but since they keep popping up in unusual places I must not get them all. My Sparaxis are almost done blooming and the Babianas are coming along well. I have some I grew from seed (mixed Babiana) more than 20 years ago when I lived in Stockton. Probably they are hybrids. They are wonderful plants in my garden (except for the fact that you have to cut off the foliage when it dies back.) I know many of you have said you can't grow them and maybe that is the reason why when I donated a lot of blooming sized corms last year they weren't snapped up by the BX. Some purple ones are planted next to a magenta one next to some silver plants and that is a nice combination. I also like the purple next to my native Camissonia ovata. This is a plant with bright yellow flowers and almost a geophyte. It has a very long tap root that looks kind of like a tuber and is dormant in summer. Each year it comes back bigger with more flowers. Like Scoliopus after blooming the pods lean over and get buried in the soil and the ants distribute the seed. I have quite a lot of the gold Homerias this year and I really like them. The bright orange ones however blend nicely with the reddish new leaves of my Huckleberry (Vaccinium ovatum) plants and I photographed one with a purple Felicia and the combination was quite striking. In one part of my garden where I didn't plant many bulbs, but they have planted themselves, I have masses of color: orange, gold, yellow, bicolored Homerias, several colors of Babiana, white, pink and yellow Ixias, Pacific Iris hybrids, mixed colors, Dichelostemma capitatum, and some Moraea bellendenii and Tritonia deusta that I did plant. There are a number of Moraea vegeta in that area too and some annual Lupine, but they are short and kind of overwhelmed by some of the others. The dwarf Watsonias are opening in my raised beds and will be blooming in the ground soon. I was shocked to see a red flower blooming close to a patch of Amaryllis belladonna leaves and to realize it was probably Gladiolus cunonius. At least I planted Anomalesia cunonia in that spot probably 14 years ago and I haven't seen it since the first or second year after planting it. Did it also like our patch of warm dry weather in March or have I just not noticed it for the Amaryllis leaves? It only has a couple of flowers, unlike some I grow in a pot that have many more. I guess with bulbs you never know for sure if they have died. In my pots I still have Romuleas blooming, Geissorhizas, the two Fritillarias native to here and quite a number of native Alliums blooming or about to bloom. Calochortus uniflorus, C. tolmiei, umbellatus, amoenus, and the first C. venustus are in bloom and Triteleia hyacinthina, ixioides, montana, lilacina and T. laxa are blooming too. Erythronium californicum is just finishing. The Brodiaeas have good spikes, but none have opened yet. This year I have having really good bloom from the three Leucocoryne species I grow. I took them last summer upstairs when they were dormant. My upstairs gets very warm in the summer during the day and they appreciated that. Cyrtanthus brachyscaphus and mackenii are still blooming and so is Moraea tripetala which started blooming in February! Moraea fugax is blooming and what looks like a Moraea, Hexaglottis subgroup that I have no clue where it came from since I have no record of getting any seed of it. And I still have Cyclamen creticum and repandum blooming. These Lachenalias are in bloom: L. orthopetala, bachmanii, contaminata, mathewsii, juncifolia, liflora, elegans, pustulata, unicolor, haarlemensis, and today when I passed I caught a strong smell of coconut coming from Lachenalia violacea. The only Lapeirousia I seem to be able to get to bloom, Lapeirousia corymbosa, has just started to bloom. Luckily it is a really pretty thing. Although as usual a lot of my Ornithogalum dubium are sulking underground there is one pot of orange ones with a lot of blooms just now starting and another yellow with one rather pathetic start. I have a second bloom from Pelargonium barklyi that I started from seed fall 2003. My Veltheimia bracteata is a little past peak as is the last of the tulips, Tulipa batalini. Lets see I think I neglected to mention my Delphiniums blooming in the ground and in pots: D. nudicaule, luteum, hesperium, patens, with others coming. Arthropodium strictum which seems to be the only Australian bulb that I can reliably flower has just started. Two Brunsvigia pots that I have not replanted in a number of years have interlopers. I don't know if I'll ever see the Brunsvigia bloom, but this winter in one pot Cyclamen coum bloomed well and now Triteleia hendersonii and Allium hyalinum are blooming in that same pot. I don't know if these were errant seeds or seed pots I gave up on and reused the soil. I certainly didn't plant them. In the Brunsvigia bosmaniae pots with the leaves dying back now I had an earlier Ixia rapunculoides bloom and not something that is looking very like it is going to be a species Gladiolus, maybe. I've never seen it before in that pot. Alberto made me realize that it was o.k. to be less fussy about bulb companions not being the same as long as the storage organ can help you identify it. Sorry about this being too long. I've been composing over the last couple of days and my enthusiasm is getting out of hand. I added some additional pictures to the Geissorhiza wiki page. Geissorhiza monanthos and Geissorhiza radians are both blooming now and I guess I don't find their blooms too small. I still find them a marvel in complexity and beauty. I've added a few pictures of some of the corms of various species since they really are different. This will probably be a long term project for me and I'm sure I'll get better at it with practice and can improve on the pictures. I started out thinking Geissorhiza geminata blooming the first time this year from seed for me reminded me of a number of Hesperanthas only with smaller flowers, but it is open during the day and I have enjoyed it. New pictures of corms, Geissorhiza geminata, Geissorhiza monanthos (in number), Geissorhiza splendidissima, Geissorhiza mathewsii (the only picture I got before it went to bulb heaven a few years ago), and an unknown species that Rossouw Malherbe was growing in South Africa a number of years ago. If anyone recognizes it (that is if anyone is still reading this), please let me know. http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Geissorhiza This time of the year I forget about how much work it is to pot up all those bulbs and how I really need to have fewer. As much as I delight about the individual blooms in pots, it's my garden that really inspires me. I just wish more of those bulbs I grow in pots could survive in the ground. Mary Sue From jimmckenney@starpower.net Sun Apr 17 15:55:55 2005 Message-Id: <3u3gb7$o3ekb@smtp05.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Bulbs in Bloom Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:54:53 -0400 Mary Sue wrote: "Sorry about this being too long. I've been composing over the last couple of days and my enthusiasm is getting out of hand." What a wonderful post, Mary Sue. And I'm sure it will be more amazing to me after I spend some time on the wiki figuring out what all those plants are. It's unlikely I'll ever grow most of them here in Maryland, but it's really thrilling to realize that there are broad bulb horizons waiting for me to explore if I ever get the chance. I don't think I'm out of line when I say that here on the east coast our bulb traditions are firmly centered on the bulbs which have traditionally made up the commercial bulb trade. It continually amazes me how much more there is to try out there. And the really cool thing about the internet, email, and the wiki in particular is that those rarities in our east coast gardens which in the past could be learned about only by painstaking library searches (and that only possible to those who had access to really good libraries) are now grown, celebrated and publicized by growers in other climates for all of us to enjoy virtually. I love those long lists, they are the multi-course meals which feed my gardening curiosity. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where it's impossible to get anything serious done because every which way I look there is something new and beautiful and interesting to distract me. From msittner@mcn.org Sun Apr 17 23:39:11 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050417201349.02f150f0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: New List Administrator Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:34:17 -0700 Hi all, I am happy to announce that Susan Hayek has agreed to assist Arnold and me in administering the PBS list. Susan has already been helping me quite a lot with the wiki and I'm very pleased she is willing to help with the list as well. She has been adding selected photographs from John Lonsdale's web site to our wiki. John doesn't have time to tell us much about his plants and we really do like to have text to go with the pictures. For those of you who look at the recent changes or edits on the wiki, you can check out the new pictures as Susan adds them. We'd love to have any of you who would care to add text to go with the pictures to do so. You'll need to sign in to do so. Just write your first and last name together as one word. FirstLast She has added Narcissus, Sternbergia, Leucojum, Acis, Galanthus, Nothoscordum, Ipheion, and Erythronium pictures so far and I believe is working on Arisaema at the moment. So if all you see next to a name is photo by John Lonsdale and you know something about that plant, please add it. If you need to reach one of us go to our list information page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php and click on the bottom. An email started from there will go to all three of us. I'd like to announce that my husband and I and two of our friends are heading out to look for wild flowers Tuesday morning. Given how much is blooming in my garden at the moment, it may seem like a strange time to go, but tax season in the US is now over so Bob can join me and we hope there are still flowers blooming at the higher elevations in parts of central and southern California. So if you need help while I'm gone please contact one of the others. Thanks. Mary Sue From fossette@iol.ie Mon Apr 18 09:32:57 2005 Message-Id: <000601c5441b$3650d500$228291c2@oemcomputer> From: Subject: Oxalis hedysaroides rubra Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:33:28 +0100 Good afternoon, Claude. I found your name in connection with the above through Google. I wonder whether you would have for sale a few seeds of the above? I am in Ireland. Very best wishes, Margaret Connolly. From osmani_baullosa@yahoo.com Mon Apr 18 10:48:28 2005 Message-Id: <20050418144828.98804.qmail@web30513.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Osmani Baullosa Subject: Bulbs in Bloom Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 07:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Dear Mary, thanks a lot for your post. It's very inspiring. I'll also search for the species on PBS wiki; most of them are unknown to me. I think it's a very good idea to send pictures of the storage organs of our plants. Geissorhiza corms are amazing. I'll post some pictures taken last week, so you can compare sizes of different flowering-sized bulbs of mine. Cheers, Osmani Mary Sue Ittner wrote: Dear All, I am often asked when is my garden at its best and I'm not sure when to answer. Those early blooms are so exciting that at the moment they appear I am quite entranced. Late winter through spring is probably best in a Mediterranean garden. Many of my South African bulbs are done now, but there are those that bloom later just as my California bulbs are starting and those combinations with spring blooms from my shrubs are making me want to spend all day in my garden at the moment just wandering around and taking it all in. It seems appropriate to mention that my Homerias (aka Moraea, Homeria subgroup) are rather amazing at the moment. I know Jim Waddick only was interested in things that reseed in hardy climates, but there is no reason why some of the rest of us can't mention what appears for us when we don't get around to deadheading. I do cut off the seed pods now if I get around to it of the things that reseed in my garden in great quantity like Freesia alba, Sparaxis, Ixia, Babiana, Homeria, Ipheion, Geissorhiza inaequalis, but since they keep popping up in unusual places I must not get them all. My Sparaxis are almost done blooming and the Babianas are coming along well. I have some I grew from seed (mixed Babiana) more than 20 years ago when I lived in Stockton. Probably they are hybrids. They are wonderful plants in my garden (except for the fact that you have to cut off the foliage when it dies back.) I know many of you have said you can't grow them and maybe that is the reason why when I donated a lot of blooming sized corms last year they weren't snapped up by the BX. Some purple ones are planted next to a magenta one next to some silver plants and that is a nice combination. I also like the purple next to my native Camissonia ovata. This is a plant with bright yellow flowers and almost a geophyte. It has a very long tap root that looks kind of like a tuber and is dormant in summer. Each year it comes back bigger with more flowers. Like Scoliopus after blooming the pods lean over and get buried in the soil and the ants distribute the seed. I have quite a lot of the gold Homerias this year and I really like them. The bright orange ones however blend nicely with the reddish new leaves of my Huckleberry (Vaccinium ovatum) plants and I photographed one with a purple Felicia and the combination was quite striking. In one part of my garden where I didn't plant many bulbs, but they have planted themselves, I have masses of color: orange, gold, yellow, bicolored Homerias, several colors of Babiana, white, pink and yellow Ixias, Pacific Iris hybrids, mixed colors, Dichelostemma capitatum, and some Moraea bellendenii and Tritonia deusta that I did plant. There are a number of Moraea vegeta in that area too and some annual Lupine, but they are short and kind of overwhelmed by some of the others. The dwarf Watsonias are opening in my raised beds and will be blooming in the ground soon. I was shocked to see a red flower blooming close to a patch of Amaryllis belladonna leaves and to realize it was probably Gladiolus cunonius. At least I planted Anomalesia cunonia in that spot probably 14 years ago and I haven't seen it since the first or second year after planting it. Did it also like our patch of warm dry weather in March or have I just not noticed it for the Amaryllis leaves? It only has a couple of flowers, unlike some I grow in a pot that have many more. I guess with bulbs you never know for sure if they have died. In my pots I still have Romuleas blooming, Geissorhizas, the two Fritillarias native to here and quite a number of native Alliums blooming or about to bloom. Calochortus uniflorus, C. tolmiei, umbellatus, amoenus, and the first C. venustus are in bloom and Triteleia hyacinthina, ixioides, montana, lilacina and T. laxa are blooming too. Erythronium californicum is just finishing. The Brodiaeas have good spikes, but none have opened yet. This year I have having really good bloom from the three Leucocoryne species I grow. I took them last summer upstairs when they were dormant. My upstairs gets very warm in the summer during the day and they appreciated that. Cyrtanthus brachyscaphus and mackenii are still blooming and so is Moraea tripetala which started blooming in February! Moraea fugax is blooming and what looks like a Moraea, Hexaglottis subgroup that I have no clue where it came from since I have no record of getting any seed of it. And I still have Cyclamen creticum and repandum blooming. These Lachenalias are in bloom: L. orthopetala, bachmanii, contaminata, mathewsii, juncifolia, liflora, elegans, pustulata, unicolor, haarlemensis, and today when I passed I caught a strong smell of coconut coming from Lachenalia violacea. The only Lapeirousia I seem to be able to get to bloom, Lapeirousia corymbosa, has just started to bloom. Luckily it is a really pretty thing. Although as usual a lot of my Ornithogalum dubium are sulking underground there is one pot of orange ones with a lot of blooms just now starting and another yellow with one rather pathetic start. I have a second bloom from Pelargonium barklyi that I started from seed fall 2003. My Veltheimia bracteata is a little past peak as is the last of the tulips, Tulipa batalini. Lets see I think I neglected to mention my Delphiniums blooming in the ground and in pots: D. nudicaule, luteum, hesperium, patens, with others coming. Arthropodium strictum which seems to be the only Australian bulb that I can reliably flower has just started. Two Brunsvigia pots that I have not replanted in a number of years have interlopers. I don't know if I'll ever see the Brunsvigia bloom, but this winter in one pot Cyclamen coum bloomed well and now Triteleia hendersonii and Allium hyalinum are blooming in that same pot. I don't know if these were errant seeds or seed pots I gave up on and reused the soil. I certainly didn't plant them. In the Brunsvigia bosmaniae pots with the leaves dying back now I had an earlier Ixia rapunculoides bloom and not something that is looking very like it is going to be a species Gladiolus, maybe. I've never seen it before in that pot. Alberto made me realize that it was o.k. to be less fussy about bulb companions not being the same as long as the storage organ can help you identify it. Sorry about this being too long. I've been composing over the last couple of days and my enthusiasm is getting out of hand. I added some additional pictures to the Geissorhiza wiki page. Geissorhiza monanthos and Geissorhiza radians are both blooming now and I guess I don't find their blooms too small. I still find them a marvel in complexity and beauty. I've added a few pictures of some of the corms of various species since they really are different. This will probably be a long term project for me and I'm sure I'll get better at it with practice and can improve on the pictures. I started out thinking Geissorhiza geminata blooming the first time this year from seed for me reminded me of a number of Hesperanthas only with smaller flowers, but it is open during the day and I have enjoyed it. New pictures of corms, Geissorhiza geminata, Geissorhiza monanthos (in number), Geissorhiza splendidissima, Geissorhiza mathewsii (the only picture I got before it went to bulb heaven a few years ago), and an unknown species that Rossouw Malherbe was growing in South Africa a number of years ago. If anyone recognizes it (that is if anyone is still reading this), please let me know. http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Geissorhiza This time of the year I forget about how much work it is to pot up all those bulbs and how I really need to have fewer. As much as I delight about the individual blooms in pots, it's my garden that really inspires me. I just wish more of those bulbs I grow in pots could survive in the ground. Mary Sue _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Mon Apr 18 11:30:03 2005 Message-Id: <4263CFEB.B69FC535@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Botanical nomenclature Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 08:19:07 -0700 Dear John: Simple really, all genera are capitalized, all species lower case. Bi-generic hybrids take the multiplication in front of the genus, interspecific hybrids in front of the species name,. Cultivars, selections and clones, are upper case in single quotes 'John' as an example. Cheers. John E. Bryan John Ingram wrote: > > I'm finally revamping my web site and need some help. My web designer is not a plant person. Is there a web site somewhere that I can direct him to that simplifies how plant names are to be written? Such as Clivia x cyrtanthiflora vs. Clivia Cyrtanthiflora? I know I'll have to do a lot of proofing but I'd like to shave some time off for him. > Thanks in advance for your help. > > John Ingram in L.A., CA. > www.floralarchitecture.com check it out > Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com > 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Nancy.Gilbert@beale.af.mil Mon Apr 18 12:00:54 2005 Message-Id: <788ADF272F4A4E4891F6BB86894D239A81F689@fsbaey08> From: Gilbert Nancy L Contr 9 CES/CEC Subject: Introduction Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:02:56 -0700 Julie, Ron Ratco usually sells seed for E. henersonii. We are growing E. hendersonii, but won't have it for sale for a couple of more years. Telos Rare Bulbs may have it available this fall? Regards, Nancy Gilbert Far West Bulb Farm Grass Valley, CA. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Julie Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 9:24 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Introduction Hello All, I joined PBS at the suggestion of Louise Parsons - Thank you again Louise. I am mainly interested in hardy bulbs which will do well in my area. I've spent many hours over the past few days reviewing the archives - what a vast wealth of information. I have been on a mission to find seed or bulbs of erythronium hendersonii. We have a small nursery on 8 acres of woodlands with several large colonies of our native erythronium oregonum. I collect seed grow these on for several years and then replant in areas of the property where the population is low. We also had a large quantity of our native trillium ovatum. The numbers have been dwindling since neighbors on both sides have removed all large trees and now the deer come over here for their favorite snack - trillium blossoms. My collection of trilliums is as follows: Trillium catesbaei cuneatum erectum var. album (beige) erectum luteum (yellow) erectum var. erectum (red) flexipes kurabayashi luteum ovatum pusillum recurvatum sessile staminium These seeds/plants are not for sale but I am very interested in trades for other seeds/plants on my want list. Please contact me off list julie@shadylanenursery.com Julie Lockwood Shadylane Nursery Washington State, USA Zone 8 www.shadylanenursery.com _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From toadlily@olywa.net Mon Apr 18 13:59:08 2005 Message-Id: <4263F726.2080405@olywa.net> From: Laura & Dave Subject: Erythronium hendersonii Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:06:30 -0700 Julie, Nancy et al. I just thought I'd add my two cents about the seeds mentioned provided by Ron Ratco. I've purchased seed the last two years, and the germination has been so good that the pots look like small, square patches of lawn! The second year plants have come back from dormancy, with their first true leaves quite large and healthy (for second year leaves, of course). I also ran into a grower at the recent Oregon Hardy Plant Society sale, who has some plants of E. hendersonii, and possibly some seed. The plants are now out of bloom, so you won't be able to see the color(s). His name is Douglas M. Chadwick, d.b.a. Oregon Native Plant Nursery (e-mail: oregonnativeplant@yahoo.com). I only know him from conversation at the sale, but he seemed knowledgeable and sincere about the oregon native species he specializes in. The plants he offered appeared to be well grown, with a number of unusual species. Perhaps others have had dealings with this individual/nursery, and can offer more input. Peace and good gardening Dave Brastow From merrill@gamblegarden.org Mon Apr 18 15:25:14 2005 Message-Id: <20050418192509.A4A473C73C@cmlapp25.siteprotect.com> From: "Merrill Jensen" Subject: Scoliopus Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:25:09 -0700 Thanks Mary Sue, I'll see if I can locate some. Maybe Strybing has one kicking around the back greenhouse that they would let go. It will be worth the hunt! Take care, M -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Mary Sue Ittner Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 9:23 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: RE: [pbs] Scoliopus Dear Merrill, If you have a source for Scoliopus I think you could try it. Before you joined out list I posted some information from Ian Young who grows it successfully in Scotland and his technique includes adequate fertilize and regular water. A plant I purchased at a CNPS plant sale and planted in my garden in a shady spot did not survive, but I suspect now the soil dried out too much in summer. That spot didn't get much water in summer and what I did provide the redwood roots no doubt sucked up quickly. In the wild Scoliopus plants are often found in very wet spots and are probably far enough down in the ground that the roots do not dry out very much even during our dry summers. I've been adding seed if I come upon it to other areas of my garden hoping to find a place it will like. Time will tell. Mary Sue At 07:49 AM 4/15/05 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Mary Sue, > >Thanks for sharing! Scoliopus was one of those plants that I looked for >while I lived in Oregon, but was never able to locate one. I had also >wanted to work it into the collections at the Oregon Garden, but was >'downsized' before that could happen. How do you think it would fair in a >woodland in Palo Alto? I've got a good humus soil that comes fairly close >to a coastal situation. Anybody have one in the area? > >Merrill >Palo Alto, CA zone 9/10 where the Watsonia borbonica are blooming and I >picked up some Wachendorfia thyrsiflora yesterday to try... > >-----Original Message----- >From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] >On Behalf Of Mary Sue Ittner >Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:02 PM >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: [pbs] Scoliopus > >Hi, > >Gerhard Stickroth sent me a picture of Scoliopus bigelovii blooming in >Germany grown by friend Josef Mayr who has given permission to add it to >the wiki. I was quite amazed to see all these flowers together since in the >wild it is tucked into corners here and there in the shady forest so I've >never seen a photo opportunity where you could capture so many flowers at >once. Also since this plant usually grows in the shade, the lack of light >and shadows make good pictures a challenge. Josef is growing his plants in >full sun in a former pond where he has changed the soil. I always find it >fascinating to learn about the different ways people grow plants >successfully. I don't know how cold it is where he lives, but he has found >a system that works. Read about it and see the picture below. I guess I >need to give my plants more nutrients and more light besides the new >regimen of additional summer water. > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Scoliopus > >Mary Sue > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From arnold@nj.rr.com Mon Apr 18 20:28:39 2005 Message-Id: <426450B5.2030803@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: from Ernie Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:28:37 -0400 Subject: RE: [pbs] Botanical nomenclature From: "Ernie O'Byrne" Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:12:39 -0700 To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Since this has come up, I will ask the question that has kept me up nights for years (well, maybe that is an exageration). What is reason behind attaching the x meaning a cross to the word following, for example, Helleborus xericsmithii. It seems that that leads to possible confusion, as in the very example offered. Is it a dry loving hellebore (xeric) named after someone named Smith, or a cross? Although I cannot come up with them right now, I have seen other examples of similar possible confusions. Why is a space not left between the two? Actually, most people, even most nurseries do put in the space, but, I believe, incorrectly. Illumination would be greatly appreciated. Ernie O'Byrne Northwest Garden Nursery 86813 Central Road Eugene, ORegon 97402 USA USDA Z. 7B From jimmckenney@starpower.net Mon Apr 18 21:23:16 2005 Message-Id: <3u3f9p$monn0@smtp04.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: from Ernie Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:23:12 -0400 Part of the answer here is that the symbol in question is not the letter x, but rather the multiplication symbol × - as Jane McGary pointed out to us when this topic came up last year. In some fonts these two characters are sufficiently distinct to tell apart; for instance, here's my letter x, and here's my multiplication sign ×, both in Courier New (and sorry to those of you whose email program does not support these symbols). Note that the letter sits on the line whereas the multiplication symbol is suspended (at least in this font). As for the confusion which might arise, none of us is born knowing the meaning of these names: the etymology of all of them has to be learned. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where we don't subscribe to the New York ×. From crinum@libero.it Tue Apr 19 08:58:13 2005 Message-Id: From: "crinum@libero.it" Subject: from Ernie Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 14:58:10 +0200 >From IPNI: Ranunculaceae Helleborus × ericsmithii B.Mathew in G. Rice & E. Strangman, Gardener's Guide to Growing Hellebores: 124 (1993) Hybrid Parentage: (Helleborus sternii × Helleborus niger L.) Alberto Italy ---------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:28:37 -0400 Subject : [pbs] from Ernie > > Subject: > RE: [pbs] Botanical nomenclature > From: > "Ernie O'Byrne" > Date: > Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:12:39 -0700 > > To: > "Pacific Bulb Society" > > > Since this has come up, I will ask the question that has kept me up nights > for years (well, maybe that is an exageration). What is reason behind > attaching the x meaning a cross to the word following, for example, > Helleborus xericsmithii. It seems that that leads to possible confusion, as > in the very example offered. Is it a dry loving hellebore (xeric) named > after someone named Smith, or a cross? Although I cannot come up with them > right now, I have seen other examples of similar possible confusions. Why is > a space not left between the two? Actually, most people, even most nurseries > do put in the space, but, I believe, incorrectly. > > Illumination would be greatly appreciated. > > Ernie O'Byrne > Northwest Garden Nursery > 86813 Central Road > Eugene, ORegon 97402 > USA > USDA Z. 7B > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Alberto Grossi Italy ____________________________________________________________ Navighi a 4 MEGA e i primi 3 mesi sono GRATIS. Scegli Libero Adsl Flat senza limiti su http://www.libero.it From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Apr 19 10:03:07 2005 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Was Ernie - see ICNCP Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:03:59 -0500 Dear Ernie and all; The Internationjal Code for Names of Cultivated Plants (ICNCP) 7th Ed, 2004 covers this in detail. Get a copy and read it. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jimmckenney@starpower.net Tue Apr 19 10:53:03 2005 Message-Id: <3u3f9p$mvbp2@smtp04.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: ICNCP Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:51:00 -0400 Is this available online or it is something which has to be purchased? Jim McKenney -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James Waddick Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:04 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Was Ernie - see ICNCP Dear Ernie and all; The Internationjal Code for Names of Cultivated Plants (ICNCP) 7th Ed, 2004 covers this in detail. Get a copy and read it. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jimmckenney@starpower.net Tue Apr 19 11:04:40 2005 Message-Id: <3u3f9p$mviji@smtp04.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: from Ernie Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:04:38 -0400 We're missing some fun here. Ernie's question has given me some ideas! Suppose, for instance, that instead of Eric Smith, the eponym is Eric Rivers. Then we would get xericrivers (arroyos? wadis?) If the eponym were Eric Scape, then xericscape. If the eponym were Eric Fyte, then xericfyte (I'm stretching a bit there). Eric Zone would give us xericzone. Or going for something a bit more metaphoric, if the eponym were Eric Humor, then xerichumor (Perhaps you think that describes this post?). Lots of other possibilities: Eric Clean, Eric Ice, Eric Rot, Eric Ness (xericness sounds like a good word to me!), Eric Dock and so on. All of this, of course, depends on deliberately confounding the multiplication symbol and the letter x. Surely someone else can come up with some good ones? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net From jimmckenney@starpower.net Tue Apr 19 12:38:09 2005 Message-Id: <3u3gb7$oqi1m@smtp05.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Paeonia season 2005 now underway Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 12:38:06 -0400 Paeonia mascula opened its first flower of the season this morning, thus opening the peony season in my garden this year. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where P. emodi and P. wittmanniana may open later this week. From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Apr 19 13:34:27 2005 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: the almost-x in hybrid names Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:34:24 -0700 > >Ranunculaceae Helleborus × ericsmithii B.Mathew There have been two recent messages about a hybrid sign that most of us represent by the letter x. Presumably this looks similar to an x. The symbol that the two Europeans have used shows as a diamond for me. I copied it to a text editor and changed it to a few dozen fonts, all of which showed a diamond. What font is it that you are using to show an almost-x ? Diane Whitehead, Canada From Jamievande@freenet.de Tue Apr 19 14:13:50 2005 Message-Id: <006001c5450c$c98a1100$6502a8c0@Jamie2> From: "Jamie" Subject: Paeonia season 2005 now underway Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:22:46 +0200 Ha, Ha, my P. mascula opened last week! Beat you! OK, really, the season has started and the foliage is fabulous this year. I don't know if the cold winter helped or what, but the colour and texture is rich on all my plants. I have a small number I purchased as P. mollis, which bears seed, so I'm not sure. The foliage is wonderfully haired and pleated this year. I have a bud on a seedling of P. xchamaeleon x P. kavachensis, which has me excited. The foliage is very lime-gold in comparison to others in the garden. I'm hoping for a shocking pink to give some vulgar contrast! Unfortunately, I may miss the blossom, as I leave for a speaking tour to Canada and the USA on Friday. I'll have to ask friends to come by and take a shot. The game is afoot...Don't you just love Spring? Jamie V. Cologne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McKenney" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 6:38 PM Subject: [pbs] Paeonia season 2005 now underway > Paeonia mascula opened its first flower of the season this morning, thus > opening the peony season in my garden this year. > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@starpower.net > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where P. emodi and P. > wittmanniana may open later this week. > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Apr 19 14:48:02 2005 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Paeonia season 2005 now underway Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 13:48:43 -0500 Dear all; My first bloom was the aptly named 'Early Scout' a fern leaf peony hybrid (P. tenuifolia), since followed by P. mlokosewitschii, 'Roselette' and a couple early Chinese Tree Peonies, P. tenuifolia and a host of others. Also starting up or done Iris stolonifera, I. iberica elegantissima, I. arenaria, I.flavissima, I. tigridia, I. sari and now the arilbreds (hybrids involving Oncocyclus species). Among 'true bulbs (now don't get started), Hyacinthus campanulatus is starting, Camassia (couple species) are in bud or blooming. Lilies of various sorts continue to pop up daily. The established Orienpets are monsters surpassing tree peonies and still going, new Asiapets are coming on strong and most Asiatics are well along. L. formosanum seem to be trailing the pack. "Leucojum aestivalis" is just past peak and a couple early Arisaema (A. serratum, A engleri, A. amurense) are up and blooming-other just poking and more showing no sign. Some of those 'who planted those' ornithogalums are blooming and I may be sorry. Dracunculus is up a couple of feet and few Arum sp are blooming already A. maculatum, A. orientale, A. rupicola and one or two others I need to research to find correct names. So an exciting time. I am try to soak this all up before leaving the garden in less than 24 hours for 2 weeks away (in W. China), but hope to make up for the absence here with good things to see there. Best and expect a quiet 2 weeks or more from me. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From buj.joschko@freenet.de Tue Apr 19 16:03:54 2005 Message-Id: From: "Hans und Babs Joschko" Subject: AW: [pbs] Paeonia season 2005 now underway Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:04:46 +0200 Hello plantfriends , Here is my peony flower report from Southwest Germany . Since few days flowering in my garden : P. russoi ( from Sardinia and Kephallonia ) , P. mairei , P. clusii ( with one pink-flowering plant) P. spec.Nur Dag ( maybe caucasica) P. mascula ( from Caucasus ) , P. mascula ( from Black Sea ), P. tenuifolia . Jim's plants are a little bit earlier - but in few days comes more other plants : P. cambessedesii , P. mascula v. hellenica , P. mascula with white flowers from Sicily and after this the hybrids ( "Early Scout", "Roselette", "Lavender" ) . This is really a wonderful time of the year ! With best wishes for nice spring days Hans From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Apr 19 20:56:58 2005 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: ICNCP Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 17:21:01 -0500 >Is this available online or it is something which has to be purchased? > Jim; Inter Library Loan. Older editions are on line, but really should check current info. Jim -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From kellyo@wetrock.com Tue Apr 19 19:59:06 2005 Message-Id: <426539A7.30103.4122570A@localhost> From: "Kelly O'Neill" Subject: bulbs of erythronium hendersonii Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 17:02:31 -0700 > I have been on a mission to find seed or bulbs of erythronium > hendersonii. They are (have been the last few weeks) available at the Eugene, Oregon Farmer's Market on Saturdays. I have a pot or two full of sprouts still to sell and Lou at the "Buggy Crazy" booth has had deep flats in full bloom for weeks. Lou sells a lot of great natives, however, he does not do email yet as far as I know. I don't really ship plants and I don't know if he does. Kelly O'Neill Wet Rock Gardens Flower Farm U-Pick and more at the farm (open 9 to 6, Sun, Wed and Fri - from March thru Halloween): 2877 N 19th Street Springfield, Oregon 97477 To contact us: * Business Office for mail or by appointment only: gardens@wetrock.com * 1950 Yolanda AVE http://www.wetrock.com * Springfield, Oregon 97477 (541) 746-4444 * From writserv@nbnet.nb.ca Wed Apr 20 10:27:12 2005 Message-Id: From: Rand Nicholson Subject: Veltheimia Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:32:05 -0300 Hello All: I guess we are pretty well agreed that the bulb I am growing is a Velthemia, probably bracteata. Is there a consensus on feeding the bulb when it is starting to bloom? I am mostly hearing that the bloom will draw all its nutrients from the bulb with no feeding required until after the bloom is over. Yes/No? Rand From piabinha@yahoo.com Wed Apr 20 12:07:51 2005 Message-Id: <20050420160750.27968.qmail@web51901.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Amaryllid Society Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 09:07:50 -0700 (PDT) an overseas friend of mine is asking about what happened to an Amaryllid Society based in california, that was formerly known as Plant Life Society. he says that he used to get publications from them but lately all mail has been returned with no forwarding address. any info appreciated. thanks. tsuh yang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Wed Apr 20 12:29:25 2005 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Veltheimia Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:29:24 +0000 >From: Rand Nicholson >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: [pbs] Veltheimia >Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:32:05 -0300 > >Hello All: > >I guess we are pretty well agreed that the bulb I am growing is a >Velthemia, probably bracteata. Is there a consensus on feeding the bulb >when it is starting to bloom? I am mostly hearing that the bloom will draw >all its nutrients from the bulb with no feeding required until after the >bloom is over. > >Yes/No? > >Rand Hi Rand: If you fertilize properly (in minute doses) it will be of benefit to the bulb. Yes the flowering (and particularly seed setting) will extract most of the energy stored the previous year but at this stage (right now, with the spike going up) a lot of the food is in the foliage and will be stored in the bulb as the leaves become yellow later in the season. If the fertilizer doses are excessive at this stage there is risk to burn the roots and make the flower spike abort. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/ From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Wed Apr 20 12:33:35 2005 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Amaryllid Society Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:33:34 +0000 >From: piaba >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: Bulbs , PBulbS >Subject: [pbs] Amaryllid Society >Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 09:07:50 -0700 (PDT) > >an overseas friend of mine is asking about what >happened to an Amaryllid Society based in california, >that was formerly known as Plant Life Society. he >says that he used to get publications from them but >lately all mail has been returned with no forwarding >address. any info appreciated. thanks. > >tsuh yang Dear Tsuh: Your friend must have not be in touch with them for many, many years. They are the famous International Bulb Society now. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.latam.msn.com/ From jglatt@ptd.net Wed Apr 20 12:43:09 2005 Message-Id: <4266869F.40602@ptd.net> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: when X is not x Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:43:11 -0400 On my computer if I enable the number lock key, then hold down the ALT key while typing 0 2 1 5 on the number key pad the symbol × appears. This even works in Arachnophilia, when I'm writing one of my web site diary entries. Judy in New Jersey where Anemone nemorosa, Anemone flaccida, Anemone blanda, and lots of other little bulbs such as Fritillaria meleagris are in bloom, larger bulbs = daffodils, and larger yet, Fritillaria imperialis entrance me - when I look up from digging and delving and heaving and hauling in the garden From dkramb@badbear.com Wed Apr 20 12:53:02 2005 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20050420125057.01d93640@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: when X is not x Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:53:01 -0400 × Oooh, it worked! Cool beans. LOL learn something new every day. :-) Dennis × Cincinnati At 12:43 PM 4/20/2005, you wrote: >On my computer if I enable the number lock key, then hold down the ALT key >while typing 0 2 1 5 on the number key pad the symbol × appears. This even >works in Arachnophilia, when I'm writing one of my web site diary entries. > >Judy in New Jersey where Anemone nemorosa, Anemone flaccida, Anemone >blanda, and lots of other little bulbs such as Fritillaria meleagris are >in bloom, larger bulbs = daffodils, and larger yet, Fritillaria imperialis >entrance me - when I look up from digging and delving and heaving and >hauling in the garden >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 20 13:13:23 2005 Message-Id: <42668B20.61570AE2@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: when X is not x Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 10:02:24 -0700 Dear Judy: Have my copy of your book, which I will review in my monthly Newsletter. Could you please send to me your autograph so I can paste it in the book? Thanks, John E. Bryan, 300 Valley St., suite 206, Sausalito, California 94965. Judy Glattstein wrote: > > On my computer if I enable the number lock key, then hold down the ALT > key while typing 0 2 1 5 on the number key pad the symbol × appears. > This even works in Arachnophilia, when I'm writing one of my web site > diary entries. > > Judy in New Jersey where Anemone nemorosa, Anemone flaccida, Anemone > blanda, and lots of other little bulbs such as Fritillaria meleagris are > in bloom, larger bulbs = daffodils, and larger yet, Fritillaria > imperialis entrance me - when I look up from digging and delving and > heaving and hauling in the garden > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Apr 20 13:24:18 2005 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: when X is not x Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 10:24:15 -0700 >× Oooh, it worked! Cool beans. >LOL learn something new every day. :-) > >Dennis × Cincinnati > Since my query yesterday, I have done some experimenting and have found out a bit more about why Dennis' message quoted above shows me two diamonds. On a Mac, it is a multiplication sign only if I go to the website of my service provider and read your message as webmail. If it downloads onto my computer via any mail program, or if I copy it into any of my word processing programs, it is a diamond. If I forward the above quote from Dennis, which has two diamonds, to a Windows computer on the same network in the same room, the diamonds will show as multiplication signs. I think there are more such problem characters, and html fonts had to be designed so that they could be read correctly by any computer. Obviously, mail and text programs were not designed for universality. I would expect that publishing programs would have to include some work-arounds for these characters, as Macs are used by many publishers. (I will have to ask my son-in-law, who is one, though he has not published any math or botany textbooks, so may not have needed to use a multiplication sign.) The letter X has wider universality than the character multiplication sign/diamond, so I will continue to use X to designate a hybrid - not that I have a choice. Diane Whitehead From lizwat@earthlink.net Wed Apr 20 14:05:08 2005 Message-Id: <42669A0C.30309@earthlink.net> From: Liz Waterman Subject: when X is not x Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:06:04 -0700 There is a chart of characters you can type using that method. One source is: http://www.kelseypub.com/irc/charmap2.html Liz Judy Glattstein wrote: > On my computer if I enable the number lock key, then hold down the ALT > key while typing 0 2 1 5 on the number key pad the symbol × appears. > This even works in Arachnophilia, when I'm writing one of my web site > diary entries. > > From Pat.Colville@JHResearchUSA.com Wed Apr 20 14:30:54 2005 Message-Id: <0ED36EAA5B228C4CB9518A1ADFC33A2405475B@fnpmail.usa.hardie.win> From: "Pat Colville" Subject: Amaryllid Society Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:30:33 -0700 The Plant Life Society changed its name to the International Bulb Society. IBS is still around but they discontinued their Southern California Post Office Box. Try contacting their membership person Dave Lemiller: DrCrinum@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of piaba Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 9:08 AM To: Bulbs; PBulbS Subject: [pbs] Amaryllid Society an overseas friend of mine is asking about what happened to an Amaryllid Society based in california, that was formerly known as Plant Life Society. he says that he used to get publications from them but lately all mail has been returned with no forwarding address. any info appreciated. thanks. tsuh yang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From susanann@sbcglobal.net Wed Apr 20 18:33:41 2005 Message-Id: From: Susan Hayek Subject: fame Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 15:03:50 -0700 >Dear Judy: > >Have my copy of your book, which I will review in my monthly Newsletter. >Could you please send to me your autograph so I can paste it in the >book? Thanks, John E. Bryan, 300 Valley St., suite 206, Sausalito, >California 94965. **And Judy's name just popped up in a magazine I read this week, but now I can't find the magazine. Was it Garden Design? English Garden? Horticulture? Mother Earth News? This shows how much I'm losing it lately. arghhhh.... -- susan, who is..... owned by Jasper & Schubert the Standard Poodles, Gracie the Rhodesian, Pup-Quiz the Basenji and their Basenji brother, Jones.... on the North Coast of CA, USA susanann@sbcglobal.net, copyright 2005 From susanann@sbcglobal.net Wed Apr 20 18:33:40 2005 Message-Id: From: Susan Hayek Subject: when X is not x Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 15:06:31 -0700 >On my computer if I enable the number lock key, >then hold down the ALT key while typing 0 2 1 5 >on the number key pad the symbol × appears. This >even works in Arachnophilia, when I'm writing >one of my web site diary entries. **And on my Mac OSX the × appears when I used opt-shift 'v'. -- susan, who is..... owned by Jasper & Schubert the Standard Poodles, Gracie the Rhodesian, Pup-Quiz the Basenji and their Basenji brother, Jones.... on the North Coast of CA, USA susanann@sbcglobal.net, copyright 2005 From ConroeJoe@aol.com Wed Apr 20 21:31:47 2005 Message-Id: <96.25b79279.2f985c7a@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Hymenocallis liriosme Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 21:31:38 EDT Hi, A friend and I were able to photograph a naturally occurring population of H. liriosme near Ganado, TX. Gandado is certainly near the western limit of this species, and perhaps the southern limit too. We stopped along a country road, and the landowner saw us and came over to say "Hi." He told us locals call the species "God's lily" because it blooms each year near Easter. The plants were growing in a somtimes-wet pasture and along adjacent roadside ditches. They were present in the many hundreds, and perhaps the thousands. Upon continuing with our drive, we saw the plants in various places up to 30-40 miles more southerly. We did not see H. liriosme when sandstone-indicative plants were observed (e.g., Yucca campestris). Possibly, H. liriosme does not occur naturally on sandstone-derived soils and the band of such soils in Texas (from northwest of Austin to Corpus Christi) limits the range of the species. Photo by Mike Burnett. LINK: Photo, H. liriosme near Ganado, TX, pastureland with southern live oak--Quercus virginiana. http://gmail.google.com/gmail?view=att&disp=inline&attid=0.1& th=10360643bd3a72ae The photo was taken on Saturday, April 2, 2005. Cordially, Joe Shaw From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Thu Apr 21 03:48:37 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050421004421.00bd13b8@pop3.meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Congratulations to Judy Glattstein Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 00:46:14 -0700 I just read my copy of your new book. It is a 'good read'. Kind of like chatting with a knowledgeable neighbor about our favorite topics here. For all of you still waiting, I highly recommend it! Marguerite English - Gardening with bulbs and perennials at 3500 feet in the mountains of southern California. From ConroeJoe@aol.com Thu Apr 21 18:28:11 2005 Message-Id: From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: A book review (bit long) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:28:07 EDT Nature 434, 957-958 (21 April 2005) A BOOK REVIEW BY: Margaret E. Smith is in the Department of Plant Breeding and Genetics, Cornell University, Ithaca, New York 14853, USA. THE BOOK REVIEWED - Mendel in the Kitchen: A Scientist's View of Genetically Modified Foods by Nina Fedoroff & Nancy Marie Brown Joseph Henry Press: 2004. 370 pp. ------------------------------ Most people in the industrialized world are blissfully ignorant about plant breeding. Plants provide the food in their supermarkets, flowers to grow in their gardens, and raw materials for industries that produce many items they find useful. Yet people are unaware of plant breeders' efforts over many years to improve the yield and quality of cultivated plants using a growing suite of genetic knowledge and technologies. The advent of genetically engineered crop plants has, if nothing else, made a certain sector of the public - those who object to such innovations - intensely aware of the discipline of plant breeding. In Mendel in the Kitchen, Nina Fedoroff and Nancy Marie Brown set out to address a number of concerns that have been raised about this most recent addition to the plant breeder's tool-box. The book provides an informative and engaging description of the history of agricultural science in general, and of plant breeding in particular. The origin of the ambiguous concept of the 'species' is well explained, for instance, highlighting the difficulty of defining the 'traditional species barrier'. Before genetic engineering was possible, cross-breeding was largely limited to plants that are sexually cross-compatible - a criterion that was used to define the limits of a species. Now genetic engineering allows genes to be moved between organisms, regardless of cross-compatibility, so it has been criticized for breaking the species barrier. The history of other widely accepted plant-breeding tools helps to put genetic engineering in a realistic context. 'Wide crosses' - those between a crop and its wild relatives - are nothing new, nor is the technique of chromosome doubling: the grain triticale, for example, is a product of a wide cross between wheat and rye, followed by doubling the chromosome number to make it fertile. Mutagenesis - using chemical or radiation treatments to cause genetic changes - may sound questionable to some but has been used to produce a few crop varieties that are grown and eaten without concern. Our current agricultural and horticultural plants are far from 'natural' and have been genetically modified by humans for thousands of years using a broad range of tools, some of them more drastic in their effects than others. The facts presented in Fedoroff and Brown's book are, for the most part, accurate. It is the things they choose not to include, and the inclusion of some sweeping generalizations, that give the book its decidedly pro-genetic-engineering slant. The omissions may have been meant to minimize detail and complexity, but their accumulated effect is to give the book a distinct bias that people worried about this technology will readily detect. For example, in a discussion of 'golden rice', which has been genetically engineered to contain beta-carotene in an effort to alleviate vitamin A deficiency, the authors say that concerns about restriction of the gene pool are unfounded. If golden rice proves popular, there is no reason to expect that only one strain will be grown, they argue, as the trait could be bred into any of the thousands of rice varieties grown by farmers at present. This is technically true. However, golden rice is intended to be given to subsistence farmers free of charge, so there is no economic incentive for the private sector to move the beta-carotene genes into thousands of varieties. Public-sector breeding programmes, meanwhile, have neither the personnel nor the financial resources to do so. Initially only a few golden rice varieties will be developed: varieties that have appropriate adaptation, sufficient yields, and acceptable eating quality for the major rice-growing environments. If golden rice is to have the impact on vitamin A deficiency that its proponents claim, it will need to be very widely grown. That will happen only if these few varieties replace a diversity of existing ones, just as the original 'green revolution' rice varieties did a few decades ago. We now have a sense of the value of that earlier loss of diversity, and should aim to avoid repeating that history. The authors' approach to the StarLink incident is also enlightening. StarLink corn carries a particular variant of the Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) toxin that the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) initially approved for use in animal feed but not as food, pending further research to clarify results that suggested that the Bt toxin might have allergenic potential. The authors document this well, along with the subsequent recalls and financial settlements that resulted when StarLink was found in food. But their implication that the EPA, in imposing the restrictions, was somehow responsible for the losses incurred by Aventis, the company marketing the StarLink corn, is absurd. Both Aventis and the EPA can be faulted for pretending that corn grown for animal feed could be kept completely separate from corn grown for human consumption. But Aventis chose to market StarLink as animal feed only, rather than waiting to collect the additional data required by the EPA for approval as a food. The issue is not whether data ultimately showed any human food risk from StarLink (in fact, there appears to be no such risk). It is one of public confidence in the regulatory effectiveness of the EPA and in the company's compliance with the restrictions under which it agreed to operate. Chapter 7 of the book boldly states that we now know that "recombinant DNA technology is among the safest technologies ever developed" - a broad and sweeping claim for a technology that is only a few decades old. In his recent review of Michael Crichton's novel State of Fear Myles Allen noted: "A hallmark of good science must be the way it treats uncertainty." In this, Fedoroff and Brown have not been as forthcoming as they should. As a plant breeder, I fully understand the frustration of scientists who are focused on the good that a tool such as genetic engineering can do. However, the agricultural and plant-breeding history that Fedoroff and Brown describe, with its theories that later proved untrue and its technologies that were harmful in unanticipated ways, suggests that a degree of humility would be appropriate. Just as opponents of genetic engineering are unaware of, or are loath to acknowledge, the aspects of this technology that we do understand, such as the genetic history of our cultivated plants, so proponents are reluctant to admit the ambiguities and unknowns about genetic engineering. As a well-written, engaging account of a controversial subject from a scientist's viewpoint, Mendel in the Kitchen should be on the reading list for everyone interested in genetic engineering, both proponents and opponents. It assembles a large and informative body of information about many of the issues that have raised concerns about genetically engineered crops. However, although the authors state in their introductory chapter, "Which view will seem right to you depends on what you consider conventional, and on how you define the ways of nature," the rest of the book attempts to convince readers that only one view is right. From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Thu Apr 21 18:54:35 2005 Message-Id: <20050421225433.15574.qmail@web50102.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Architecture Subject: Geissorhiza and ebay Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:54:33 -0700 (PDT) Take a look at this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20534&item=4374348831&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW 10 seeds for $31.00. Now, I've had things go a lot more than market value on eBay but I think this is a BIT excessive. Am I wrong? John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) From susanann@sbcglobal.net Thu Apr 21 19:07:03 2005 Message-Id: From: Susan Hayek Subject: Geissorhiza and ebay and tree Dahlias Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:07:46 -0700 >Take a look at this: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20534&item=4374348831&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW > >10 seeds for $31.00. > >Now, I've had things go a lot more than market value on eBay but I >think this is a BIT excessive. Am I wrong? **Well, he's also getting $13.95 for a tree Dahlia cutting (D. imperialis), not even rooted. I toss all the canes I cut down, so maybe next year I'll go on eBay. I could get rich. or make enough to buy more bulbs. -- susan, who is..... owned by Jasper & Schubert the Standard Poodles, Gracie the Rhodesian, Pup-Quiz the Basenji and their Basenji brother, Jones.... on the North Coast of CA, USA susanann@sbcglobal.net, copyright 2005 From theafricangarden@blueyonder.co.uk Thu Apr 21 19:23:50 2005 Message-Id: <000a01c546c9$2dc6eef0$70e62052@CROCOSMIA> From: "David Fenwick Snr." Subject: Geissorhiza and ebay Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 00:19:17 +0100 Hi John, Try looking at sellers other items, a real eye opener. I think it's a case of hey look at the pictures, forget the small print and beware of the word rare. Of course one person would say it's an example of brilliant marketing, and another something quite the opposite. I just hope the seeds germinate and the buyer is happy with the purchase once they flower. I'll let Jim Duggan know, he'd have quite a laugh at this one. Best Wishes, Dave David Fenwick Snr. The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens, Estover, Plymouth, Devon. England. PL6 8TW Tel: 44 (0)1752 301402 NCCPG National Plant Reference Collections of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe, Tulbaghia, Eucomis with Galtonia, Freesia (Anomatheca Group) and Amaryllis Websites The African Garden www.theafricangarden.com Wildflowers of the Devon and Cornwall Peninsula www.aphotoflora.com Crocosmia Heritage www.crocosmiaheritage.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.1 - Release Date: 20/04/2005 From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Thu Apr 21 19:29:45 2005 Message-Id: <002d01c546ca$00a4ddf0$dcdf8156@2CVEVE1> From: "Brian Whyer" Subject: Geissorhiza and ebay Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 00:29:45 +0100 You can buy them from Chiltern Seed for $4.80 and make a good profit, to spend on other bulbs. Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 > Subject: [pbs] Geissorhiza and ebay > > Take a look at this: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20534&item=437434 883 > 1&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW > > 10 seeds for $31.00. > > Now, I've had things go a lot more than market value on eBay but I think this is a > BIT excessive. Am I wrong? > > > > John Ingram in L.A., CA. From sheila1@iinet.net.au Thu Apr 21 20:01:45 2005 Message-Id: <002701c546ce$79b79990$6c703bcb@Burrow> From: "sheilab" Subject: Geissorhiza and ebay Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:01:45 +0800 Well, apart from charging excessively for the Geissorhiza seed, they have used some of my photographs! Sheila Perth Western Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Floral Architecture" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 6:54 AM Subject: [pbs] Geissorhiza and ebay Take a look at this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20534&item=4374348831&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW 10 seeds for $31.00. From fossette@iol.ie Fri Apr 22 04:32:09 2005 Message-Id: <002401c54715$e266cb40$518391c2@oemcomputer> From: Subject: Introducing me Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:14:27 +0100 Hello, everyone. I found you by a lucky chance, Google sending me to your site, while looking up Oxalis hedysaroides rubra, to be more precise. I'm in Ireland and my main plant interest is in houseplants. Many of my favourites are bulbs, Oxalis regnelli, Ledbouria socialis and Haemanthus albiflos. I don't know if Clivia miniata counts here, but since Ceropegia woodii has tubers I suppose it does. All of these are very easy as houseplants and stay green year round. I garden outside too, and like most people grow a lot of daffodils, crocuses, tulips etc.. I'm looking forward to reading all the posts, and thanks all for having me to stay! :-) Maggie From piabinha@yahoo.com Fri Apr 22 10:31:25 2005 Message-Id: <20050422143125.58109.qmail@web51908.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Geissorhiza and ebay Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 07:31:25 -0700 (PDT) ah, the internet... sorry to be so cynical but unfort. people don't have to take an IQ test before getting online. if that was the case, so many businesses would be bankrupt (like ebay). there are people that set up websites with a simple pic of themselves, that simply say please send me a $1, just a lousy dollar, and they are getting rich that way. because bored people surfing the web will send them a dollar... and they all add up. they are not even selling anything or have a sob story to go along. at least this seller has nice pics. tsuh yang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Fri Apr 22 10:51:24 2005 Message-Id: <20050422145123.97964.qmail@web50109.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Architecture Subject: Agapanthus National Collection Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 07:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Can someone tell me who holds that National Collection for Agapanthus?? There are a lot of varieties that I would like to get. John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) From merrill@gamblegarden.org Fri Apr 22 12:02:41 2005 Message-Id: <20050422160240.697D03CC7B@cmlapp25.siteprotect.com> From: "Merrill Jensen" Subject: Agapanthus National Collection Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:02:38 -0700 I'd also like to find that out. I need to locate a source for A. inapertus to bulk up the single plant that I've got... Merrill Jensen Palo Alto, CA Just acquired a Patersonia occidentalis to add to the Iridaceae collection... -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Floral Architecture Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 7:51 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Agapanthus National Collection Can someone tell me who holds that National Collection for Agapanthus?? There are a lot of varieties that I would like to get. John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From crocosmia@blueyonder.co.uk Fri Apr 22 12:25:47 2005 Message-Id: <001501c54757$f1fc5560$70e62052@CROCOSMIA> From: "David Fenwick Snr." Subject: Agapanthus National Collection Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 17:25:44 +0100 Hi John / Merrill, NCCPG Agapanthus Dick & Lorna Fulcher Fourways Eggesford Devon England EX18 7QZ Tel: 44 (0)1769 580 076 E-mail: pcplants@supanet.com Website: http://www.pcplants.co.uk/ Best Wishes, Dave David Fenwick Snr. The African Garden 96 Wasdale Gardens, Estover, Plymouth, Devon. England. PL6 8TW Tel: 44 (0)1752 301402 NCCPG National Plant Reference Collections of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe, Tulbaghia, Eucomis with Galtonia, Freesia (Anomatheca Group) and Amaryllis Websites The African Garden www.theafricangarden.com Wildflowers of the Devon and Cornwall Peninsula www.aphotoflora.com Crocosmia Heritage www.crocosmiaheritage.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.2 - Release Date: 21/04/2005 From dkramb@badbear.com Fri Apr 22 17:06:31 2005 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20050422165804.01b9d358@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Manfreda virginica Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 17:06:31 -0400 I'm on the fringes of its native range, but I've thought it such an oddity that I've wanted to grow it ever since I first learned of this species. I think I obtained seeds through NEWFS, and I planted them in my regular garden bed where only a few germinated. One has survived but it languished amongst the weeds. Last year I prepared a rock garden and transferred it there. I watched it through the winter as it struggled to stay green, losing almost all its leaves. This spring it appears extremely robust with its leaves growing bigger & fatter than I've ever seen, and it has many pups forming around its base with equally robust growth. I think it appreciates its new home amongst the gravel & rocks, free from competition from weeds, growing in nearly full sun. Surely it will reward me with some blooms?? Dennis in Cincinnati From jimmckenney@starpower.net Fri Apr 22 18:06:49 2005 Message-Id: <3u3f9p$odvg6@smtp04.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Manfreda virginica Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 18:06:47 -0400 Dennis, it's one of my favorite plants. I've bought a few into the garden over the years - I'm always on the lookout for forms with attractively spotted foliage. I've seen some very fat, stout, nicely spotted Manfreda in a local garden - it's labeled M. virginica although as a garden ornament it's pretty distinct. Early in the season the leaves have a strongly rippled edge - very cool! If your plants do bloom and you have access to tuberose pollen, do some crosses. Manfreda virginica and Polianthes tuberosa will cross and produce viable seeds (and this suggests that the botanists need to take another look!). Conroe Joe might have something more to say about this interesting genus: he's down in a hotbed of Manfreda culture, where several species and cultivated forms of dubious origin will thrive. If my plant of Manfreda singuliflora blooms again this year, I'll be doing some other crosses, too. This is evidently hardy here, and it may be in Cincinnati, too. Unfortunately, Manfreda singuliflora does not have a scent that I can detect, so some tuberose hybrids here might improve things. Jim McKenney Jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where sadly there are no rattlesnakes for the Manfreda to master (did I say that last year?). From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Fri Apr 22 18:30:18 2005 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Manfreda virginica Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 22:30:17 +0000 >From: Dennis Kramb >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: [pbs] Manfreda virginica >Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 17:06:31 -0400 > >I'm on the fringes of its native range, but I've thought it such an oddity >that I've wanted to grow it ever since I first learned of this species. I >think I obtained seeds through NEWFS, and I planted them in my regular >garden bed where only a few germinated. One has survived but it languished >amongst the weeds. Last year I prepared a rock garden and transferred it >there. I watched it through the winter as it struggled to stay green, >losing almost all its leaves. This spring it appears extremely robust with >its leaves growing bigger & fatter than I've ever seen, and it has many >pups forming around its base with equally robust growth. I think it >appreciates its new home amongst the gravel & rocks, free from competition >from weeds, growing in nearly full sun. Surely it will reward me with some >blooms?? > >Dennis in Cincinnati Hi Dennis: Manfredas are rather undemanding gentle things. Those of viriginica I have grown over the years stood slight frosts (down to - 6C) and long hot warm seasons equally well in well drained soils. They are obviously dormant in winter although evergreen and vigorous new growth starts in spring . Flowers are produced in summer foloowed by plump seed pods. Joe Shaw (Conroe Joe) is a nice bulb friend and knows many of these plants in the wild. I am sure he can provide info on its hardiness. My Texan ones are grown in 5 gallon containers and remain evergreen. My Mexicans (and one from Cuba) have no foliage in winter and are kept dry then. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Consigue aquí las mejores y mas recientes ofertas de trabajo en América Latina y USA: http://latam.msn.com/empleos/ From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Apr 23 11:31:52 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20050423071631.010827b8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Geophytes in Crete Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:30:24 -0700 I recently returned from a 2-week trip in Crete, my first experience with a group plant tour. Other than being stuffed into the back of a crowded van, it was not bad, and I may take another such trip to somewhere I wouldn't like to drive on my own. However, having seen the roads and limited traffic in Crete, at least in the "off season," I think I could manage there in a rental car. Many bulbs and other geophytes were in flower. I'll post photos on the wiki sometime soon, once I get them reduced to size and figure out the new protocol for adding photos. Here are some field notes on what I saw and their habitats. The terrain, though limestone, often reminded me of the Siskiyou Mountains around the Oregon/California border. Many of the plants discussed below grow where snow falls in winter, but the temperature is never very cold -- olives grow up to a considerable elevation, and oranges to 2000 feet or so. I'm not sure whether we cover Aristolochia, but it is tuberous. Aristolochia cretica, a species of moderate size, grows near the sea on rocky slopes, scrambling among the spiny shrubs for which Crete is notorious. I photographed its flowers, which are heavily lined with hairs like those of A. chilensis, and saw the butterfly which depends on it, the Cretan Festoon. Another geophytic, tuberous dicot genus is Umbilicus (Crassulaceae), the navelwort, which grows in shaded rock crevices and has rounded, glossy, succulent leaves. Like many rock gardeners, I grow U. aizoon, a large species, and the little U. rupestris. In Crete I saw two small ones: U. horizontalis growing on Mt. Ida, and U. parviflorus with attractive dark red new growth. Both should be reasonably hardy, and I've found the genus easy from seed. As in California, Oxalis pes-caprae is a weed found in most cultivated areas, probably smothering more interesting things; it's said to be resistant to herbicides, which are used a lot in the olive groves. I did see the double form, which is attractive but probably spreads as badly as the single -- the main method of increase being by bulblets, not seed. One of the most exciting plants was Paeonia clusii, growing at fairly high elevations in sparse conifer woodland, in clay with much limestone rock. It had not yet opened its flowers but even in bud it was beautiful, the foliage emerging dark red and deepest green. I'll certainly try to get seed of this species. Corydalis uniflora is a very small alpine scree plant, favoring vernally wet sites. The foliage is glaucous and the flowers pale lavender. Another high point was seeing masses of Cyclamen creticum in flower. This species has white flowers of rather thin texture but otherwise resembles C. repandum. The foliage is sometimes marked with white, but not as strikingly as in some other species of Cyclamen. It grows in shady places, mostly under hardwoods, and on rocky ledges, at mid elevations. It should do well in northern California and southern Oregon, and I wouldn't hesitate to try it outdoors here if I had enough stock to experiment with. There were many Ranunculus species of the buttercup type, and also R. asiaticus, the bright red ancestor of the tuberous garden Ranunculus. R. ficaria was frequent, and in deep gorges grew R. creticus, essentially a large version of the former. Anemone coronaria, the ancestor of tuberous anemones of gardens, was present in all the color forms offered by the Dutch, but these usually grew in single-color populations that seemed to depend partly on elevation. Even more frequent was the form of A. hortensis some authorities call A. heldreichiana, a small plant with white flowers, blue-gray on the reverse; this grew up quite high. Two amaryllids: Narcissus tazetta in its pretty bicolor form with deep gold cup, growing in very moist sites such as halfway down a streambank or among sedges in a coastal wetland. And Pancratium maritimum, deep in the sands just inland from the beach, in leaf (the flowers emerge after the leaves have withered). Aroids are a conspicuous part of the vegetation. Arisarum vulgare flowered in deeply shaded sites in good soil, often lining t he base of a boulder. The massive Arum concinnatum grew in cultivated land, but I saw no flowers. Also yet to bloom was the more alpine Arum idaeum -- I scrambled down the ravine fed by the waters from the Idaean Cave hoping to find flowers in a warm, sheltered spot, but to no avail. I did photograph flowering Arum creticum in one of the deep gorges we hiked through; the flowers were all white, not the yellow of the popular "F.C.C." form which I have in the bulb frame. Dracunculus vulgaris grew in a wide variety of sites, mostly where there was some good soil and often in old habitation sites; most of the plants had leaves well marked with dashes of white, which was a surprise to me since the forms I grow, from Asian sources, have plainer leaves. I'd like to get this well-marked form. Some of the Dracunculus clumps were over a meter tall. Finally, Zantedeschia aethiopica (Calla) has escaped from gardens in some lowland areas. Iridaceae: Crete has one Crocus, C. sieberi; the populations I saw were blooming in scree just below melting snowfields, and there were leaves in other places where the snow had recently gone. The flowers were white with yellow throats, sometimes with a little purple on the reverse. Gladiolus italicus was robust and colorful, often growing in great masses in cultivated fields, where its many bulblets are distributed by the plow; it's hardy here in Oregon. Gynandriris sisyrinchium, a little "iris" that produces a succession of ephemeral bright lavender flowers, grew as individuals or well-scattered colonies on fairly flat ground at mid elevations. Hermodactylus tuberosus was flowering on rocky uplands among grasses and dwarf shrubs, here mostly a gray color form. There were two Iris species: I. cretensis, a close relative of I. unguicularis and hardy in my garden, favored banks of clay and rock and reminded me of Pacific Coast irises with its dense foliage clumps and brilliant purple and gold flowers; and the tall bearded I. albicans, probably an ancient introduction, lifted its white flowers in old habitation sites. The form of Romulea bulbocodium that grows here is white, flowering right on the ground in vernally wet rocky clay, the kind of site where you'd find Olsynium douglasii or deciduous Lewisia species in the American West, and Calandrinia in the Andes. Liliaceae: Allium ampeloprasum (leek) grows wild here; the showiest onion was A. trifolium; also seen were A. nigrum in bud, A. roseum in flower, and A. rubrovittatum in leaf. I missed A. subhirsutum but it's flowering in my bulb frame. Asphodeline lutea and Asphodelus aestivus are among the commonest plants in Crete owing to the fact that they aren't eaten by the ubiquitous sheep and goats; both are good in temperate gardens. Also everywhere is Drimia (formerly Urginea) maritima, with big glossy green leaves; it will flower later. A thrill was seeing Fritillaria messanensis growing on the rocky summit of a hill near Spili; the flowers were much more variable in their markings than what I've grown from seed, some with prominent green median stripes. Gagea, a little-grown tulip relative, had two yellow-flowered species, G. chrysantha and G. bohemica, and the white G. graeca. Muscari comosum, which is dug for food (tried it, didn't like it), is very common in fields and uplands; M. neglectum, less common; and M. spreitzenhoferi, a dull-flowered little species, grows in beach sands. I saw two Ornithogalums, the familiar tall O. narbonense among dense grasses and shrubs, and miniature O. divergens in rocky flats and crevices. I was confused when I saw colonies of what I took to be Chionodoxa, but the group leader called Scilla nana. Grey-Wilson and Mathew's manual of the bulbs of Europe (1981) refers to these plants as Chionodoxa cretica and C. nana, the latter considered by some authorities "a high altitude form of C. cretica." Whatever the current view may be, these are respectively medium-sized and little plants with upfacing starry, light lavender, white-centered flowers; I saw them mostly emerging from dense thornbushes where the sheep couldn't get at them. Finally, the two or four (depending on your authority) tulips of Crete: endemic T. saxatilis, growing on ledges of rock outcrops; endemic T. cretica, mostly in crevices of a spectacular vertical seaside cliff and in crevices of a black rock that I was told was a form of serpentine, but there were outlying plants growing well in good soil and I suspect the rocky habitat is mostly protection from rodents; T. doerfleri, sometimes regarded as a form of T. orphanidea, in upland meadows; and T. bakeri, which Grey-Wilson and Mathew call a dark color form of T. saxatilis, growing especially in fields in the upland Omalos Plain where sheep and goats had been excluded. Since we've excluded orchids from our forum, I won't get into that, except to mention that Crete is famous for them, there are about 50 species, we saw 44 of them, and the Ophrys especially are very difficult to sort out. There was a Dutch group we encountered a couple of times who were there to look at NOTHING but the orchids. Most of the orchids are threatened by overgrazing and particularly by fertilizer application, which is subsidized by the EU; several former orchid sites we visited had been disked and fertilized and had little on them but coarse pasture grass. Of course, the island has been grazed for millennia, but new roads and pickup trucks have probably brought many more herders to formerly little-used areas. It seems imperative that some private organization should buy choice plant areas and control the grazing schedule on them. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From dkramb@badbear.com Sat Apr 23 13:21:54 2005 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20050423130233.01cedd50@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Geophytes in Crete Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 13:21:54 -0400 I love Crete! Having only visited there once in 1992, I dream of retiring there some day. So I read with great joy about your wildflower explorations. I had an extremely similar experience on Peleponnesus (mainland Greece, peninsula) in 1998 with my friend from Athens. We hiked everywhere photographing plants and wildflowers. His passion was aroids, mine was irids. We found both in plenty! > Iridaceae: Crete has one Crocus, C. sieberi; the populations I > saw were blooming in scree just below melting snowfields, and there were > leaves in other places where the snow had recently gone. The flowers were > white with yellow throats, sometimes with a little purple on the reverse. > Gladiolus italicus was robust and colorful, often growing in great masses > in cultivated fields, where its many bulblets are distributed by the > plow; it's hardy here in Oregon. Gynandriris sisyrinchium, a little > "iris" that produces a succession of ephemeral bright lavender flowers, > grew as individuals or well-scattered colonies on fairly flat ground at > mid elevations. Hermodactylus tuberosus was flowering on rocky uplands > among grasses and dwarf shrubs, here mostly a gray color form. There were > two Iris species: I. cretensis, a close relative of I. unguicularis and > hardy in my garden, favored banks of clay and rock and reminded me of > Pacific Coast irises with its dense foliage clumps and brilliant purple > and gold flowers; and the tall bearded I. albicans, probably an ancient > introduction, lifted its white flowers in old habitation sites. The form > of Romulea bulbocodium that grows here is white, flowering right on the > ground in vernally wet rocky clay, the kind of site where you'd find > Olsynium douglasii or deciduous Lewisia species in the American West, and > Calandrinia in the Andes. I, too, grow Iris cretensis and it is such a little trooper. An iris expert in Virginia told me that he could grow it outdoors in Zone 7. He encouraged me to try it outdoors here in Zone 6 (almost Zone 5) and for 3 years now I have had total success. On two separate occasions they've bloomed outdoors between Christmas and New Years. It's interesting that you compare them to the Pacific Coast irises, because I've compared it to the East Coast (Appalachian) species Iris verna. I'd love to try hybridizing the two, but believe it or not I can't keep I. verna alive! It's native range comes very close to Cincinnati, and yet I have failed on multiple attempts to grow & bloom it. It inevitably fizzles out & dies. The best theory I've been able to come up with for why Iris cretensis can survive & thrive here in Cincinnati is that Crete must have been much colder during the ice ages. Somehow those cold hardy genes have made it through to the modern day. Other plants form Crete wither & die here... like Iris verna, LOL. I was also excited to hear about Gymnandiris sisyrichium. I remember seeing a photo of that for the first time about two years ago and it knocked my socks off! I've not found anyone else growing it in USA, but I'd love to see it in real life some time. Perhaps reason enough for another trip back to Crete! >the sheep couldn't get at them. Finally, the two or four (depending on >your authority) tulips of Crete: endemic T. saxatilis, growing on ledges >of rock outcrops; endemic T. cretica, mostly in crevices of a spectacular >vertical seaside cliff and in crevices of a black rock that I was told was >a form of serpentine, but there were outlying plants growing well in good >soil and I suspect the rocky habitat is mostly protection from rodents; T. >doerfleri, sometimes regarded as a form of T. orphanidea, in upland >meadows; and T. bakeri, which Grey-Wilson and Mathew call a dark color >form of T. saxatilis, growing especially in fields in the upland Omalos >Plain where sheep and goats had been excluded. I grow a tulip whose botanical name had completely slipped my mind over the years. I never recorded it in my notebooks or anything, but after reading your account I know for certain it is T. orphanidea. It just finished blooming this year, and it such a cute little guy. I like it better than most of my modern hybrid cultivars. Thanks so much for your post! I thoroughly enjoyed it. :-) Dennis in Cincinnati From dkramb@badbear.com Sat Apr 23 13:38:15 2005 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20050423132238.01b9d510@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Manfreda virginica Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 13:38:15 -0400 At 06:06 PM 4/22/2005, you wrote: >Dennis, it's one of my favorite plants. I've bought a few into the garden >over the years - I'm always on the lookout for forms with attractively >spotted foliage. I've seen some very fat, stout, nicely spotted Manfreda in >a local garden - it's labeled M. virginica although as a garden ornament >it's pretty distinct. Early in the season the leaves have a strongly rippled >edge - very cool! > >If your plants do bloom and you have access to tuberose pollen, do some >crosses. Manfreda virginica and Polianthes tuberosa will cross and produce >viable seeds (and this suggests that the botanists need to take another >look!). Wow! And to think I was nervous about sending an email to the PBS forum about a plant distinctly NOT of pacific-rim origin. LOL. It seems M. virginica is a bit of a hit amongst other fellow PBSers. I will be sure to share some photos with you as it matures this season. Just going from my memory there not a lot of spots on mine. It was pretty much a regular boring green color. I do not have any potential "mates" for it. I'm just happy to have a specimen that's thriving (now that I found the growing conditions that make it happy). If it sets seed, well, hooray! I'll have something to donate back to PBS. :-) How tall can I expect the bloom stalks to reach? Is it like just a few inches or does it reach several feet? I like the way it forms pups, almost like hens & chicks. >Conroe Joe might have something more to say about this interesting genus: >he's down in a hotbed of Manfreda culture, where several species and >cultivated forms of dubious origin will thrive. > >If my plant of Manfreda singuliflora blooms again this year, I'll be doing >some other crosses, too. This is evidently hardy here, and it may be in >Cincinnati, too. Unfortunately, Manfreda singuliflora does not have a scent >that I can detect, so some tuberose hybrids here might improve things. > >Jim McKenney >Jimmckenney@starpower.net >Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where sadly there are no >rattlesnakes for the Manfreda to master (did I say that last year?). Hmmm... the only rattlesnake master I know is Eryngium yuccifolium. Which sadly, mine died out without self-seeding a few years ago. Boo hoo!!! Dennis in Cincy From dkramb@badbear.com Sat Apr 23 13:40:04 2005 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20050423133836.01cfe930@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Manfreda virginica Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 13:40:04 -0400 >Hi Dennis: > Manfredas are rather undemanding gentle things. Those of > viriginica I have grown over the years stood slight frosts (down to - 6C) > and long hot warm seasons equally well in well drained soils. They are > obviously dormant in winter although evergreen and vigorous new growth > starts in spring . Flowers are produced in summer foloowed by plump seed > pods. Joe Shaw (Conroe Joe) is a nice bulb friend and knows many of > these plants in the wild. I am sure he can provide info on its hardiness. > My Texan ones are grown in 5 gallon containers and remain evergreen. My > Mexicans (and one from Cuba) have no foliage in winter and are kept dry then. >Regards >Alberto Wow. I know nothing about the genus. I am surprised to hear it has species native to such tropical places too. I'm happy with my locally native variety. :-) It's got to be able to withstand the winters here since I have no greenhouse or cold room or anything. All my plants have to be grown outdoors in the garden. Dennis in Cincinnati From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat Apr 23 14:55:18 2005 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Manfreda virginica Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 18:55:17 +0000 "Wow! And to think I was nervous about sending an email to the PBS >forum about a plant distinctly NOT of pacific-rim origin" Hi Dennis: You shouldn't! All the time people is posting messages of plants that has nothing to do with this forum, like Scoliopus, or Hellebori. Perhaps the name should be changed to Pacific Plant Society. As for heights in Manfreda virginica, the form with the most attractive spotting I have came from Bexar County (no other data). But some seedlings from Conroe Joe look extremely robust and will probably produce really large adult plants. Strangely they did not germinate with warm weather but awaited until the spring in YOUR hemisphere (i.e. now) to do it. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.latam.msn.com/ From dells@voicenet.com Sat Apr 23 16:06:10 2005 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 87 Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 16:05:18 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by people from all over the world, to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 87" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: . Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA, 18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER.. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Cathy Craig: Small bulbs of Nerine hybrids. Cathy says, "They are all the types that, with the exception of one, have small bulbs that apparently always stay relatively small. Some had one baby, some had two, and a few had several. So while the selection is great, the quantities of each are somewhat short." "Nerines: I can only care adequately for one flat of potted Nerines so I have kept only the good bloomers and the ones that will tolerate the little care I can give them. While I cannot guarantee they are true-to-name, I am very good at keeping the labels in the pots and at copying original information. These are the babies from the main bulbs. With one exception, the Nerines seem to be naturally small bulbs and they really should bloom in a season or two. Most of you probably know a lot more about Nerines than I do but I will just say if anything needs perfect drainage, these things do. I pot them up in standard potting medium to which I add about 1/3 - 1/2 crushed granite (about 3/16 inch), and add a little standard bulb food like the Peters and Dutch Gardens or Growers(?) that comes in bags and looks like it's time-release. Some are pink, some hot pink, some coral, and some red. All good bloomers, very reliable. Most of the named ones are Ex Paul Chapman. The others are from the Zinkowski collection (several he had originally from Charles Hardman). Just don't overwater them! I keep them outside without sun cover in winter since it's dull here near the ocean and under umbrellas in summer - although I am not sure that's necessary. Once you see spikes in the fall, put them in the sun or they will elongate and topple. They all bloom in fall. I took the clump of N. fothergillii apart and sent most of the bulbs to Dell. I had a clump of 6 bulbs in a pot and it put up 7 spikes last season! Very nice. These are the exceptions as the bulbs will get to size of daffs and the bulbs I sent are all large and I would be surprised if they all didn't bloom this fall. They all bloomed last fall. Nerines seem to grow a lot of roots if they are not overwatered, that is long roots. I have some round plastic pots 3 inches by about 6 or 7 inches deep that I put them in this year. Don't overpot - too much soil to dry fast and they will surely rot. When in doubt, pick up the pot to see if it's heavy and if so, don't water yet. Charles Hardman grows his in all sand, but I cannot seem to get the hang of that. Enjoy!" Nerine bulblets (SUPPLIES OF EACH ARE SMALL): 1. N. sarniensis cv 'Miss Fraunce Clark' 2. N. sarniensis cv 'Miss Wilmot' 3. N. sarniensis cv 'Eddy' 4. N. sarniensis cv 'Belladonna' 5. N. sarniensis cv 'Dame Alice Godman' 6. N. sarniensis cv 'Cheerfulness' 7. N. sarniensis cv 'Inchmery Kate' 8. N. sarniensis cv 'Maria' 9. N. sarniensis cv 'Suzi' 10. N. fothergillii 11. N. xmansellii 12. N. pudica x 91-29 13. N. 83-21-88 (Zinkowski) 14. N. 82-12 (Zinkowski) 15. N. 82-14 (Zinkowski) From Diana Chapman: 16. Bulbils of Ornithogalum caudatum "Pregnant Onion": So-called, because the mother bulb produces bulbils on stolons that develop beneath the tunic sheath of the bulb, bulging out until they break through the outer layer and drop off. This bulb is usually grown as a house plant. Plant the bulbil on the surface of the potting medium exposing about two thirds of the bulb. Keep the bulb evenly moist, although it can dry out somewhat between waterings. The ribbon like leaves can reach more than two feet in length, and it will bloom under ordinary household conditions in addition to producing many "babies" when mature. From Dell Sherk (and the McMasters): 17. Bulblets of Brunsvigia grandiflora grown on from seed donated by Cameron and Rhoda McMasters of the Croft Nursery in RSA and offered on the BX in September 2003. Thank you, Cathy, Diana, and the McMasters!! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Apr 23 22:04:36 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20050423155606.01131d68@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Geophytes in Crete Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 16:00:22 -0700 Dennis Kramb wrote about Iris cretensis and Gynandriris sisyrinchium. I. cretensis is a member of the same section as I. unguicularis and I. lazica, and presumably those are the only other species with which it could be hybridized, if one wanted to do such things. Gynandriris sisyrinchium is easy to grow from seed, which is usually available from the NARGS and AGS exchanges. It also increases well vegetatively in my bulb frame, but I haven't tried it outdoors yet. I saw it at high enough elevations that I think it could be grown along the Pacific Coast, but the Midwest is another matter entirely. (On the other hand, I can't grow Manfreda!) Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From dells@voicenet.com Sun Apr 24 11:25:30 2005 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: BX 87 almost closed Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 11:24:35 -0400 To avoid any further disappointments since the supplies are very small, the nerines on BX 87 are all gone. Brunsvigia grandiflora and Ornithogalum caudatum are still available. Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Sun Apr 24 13:18:05 2005 Message-Id: <20050424171805.37108.qmail@web50102.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Architecture Subject: Manfreda Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:18:05 -0700 (PDT) I have one Manfreda viriginica that I mentioned last time the subject came up. It is still doing well. It has remained evergreen for me, not a stretch really for S. CA. It flowered for me several years ago when I had it placed in full sun. The plant overall looked pretty shabby so I moved it back into the shade with the Clivias. The plant looks much better but I don't think I will be getting flowers again. And, it has never produced any offspring. The flower spike, Dennis, was about 5' tall with green spidery or lacy flowers. I loved them. I was totally entranced. I suppose I need to get this one out in the sun again and plan on watering it more. Oh, my leaf color is solid green. I was given another one, I am not positive of the species, that is doing well. It is in a lot more sun until about 3 or so. I will expect it too bloom later on this year. I'm fairly certain that this came from one of Gary Hammer's nurseries and I think it will have red flowers. I seem to remember seeing it several years ago at Desert to Jungle in bloom and again was totally entranced. I hope to be able to get some more of these as they are quite durable. I guess anything that can grow in TX and harsh parts of Mexico have to be pretty durable. John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Apr 24 13:41:24 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20050424103523.01075600@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Fritillaria hybrids Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:41:16 -0700 I seem to have some hybrids among California Fritillaria species raised from home-grown seed. I would post pictures of them on the wiki if I knew how to sign in, but I have not tried to post anything since it changed, and apparently I need a password which I do not know, or else I don't know exactly how to enter my user name. Anyway, I apologize if anyone has grown plants from my garden seeds of Fritillaria purdyi and/or Fritillaria biflora, and now has seedlings in flower that don't look like what they are supposed to be. It appears that both groups of plants produced at least a few hybrid seeds. The one with F. purdyi as a seed parent is quite large, flowering probably 2 years before the other seedlings in its group, with 10 flowers on a stout stem -- impressive! -- but the flowers have a greenish ground color rather than the creamy white of F. purdyi, though they are marked like that species. The ones with F. biflora as a seed parent are similar, but smaller, with only 2 or 3 flowers per stem on first flowering; they have typical purdyi checkering rather than the "tips and stripes" of biflora. Some apparently pure biflora seedlings are flowering in the same group. I will search around and see if I can find out how to access the wiki during the next few days, to show these interesting plants. Interesting but disappointing to some, no doubt, because biflora is dead common and purdyi is much sought after. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From dells@voicenet.com Sun Apr 24 13:58:51 2005 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 87 CLOSED Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:58:01 -0400 Everything is gone. Can't even stretch it further. Packages should go out tomorrow. Enjoy, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Apr 24 14:09:25 2005 Message-Id: <426BE0D2.6090607@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Fritillaria hybrids Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:09:22 -0400 Jane; Sign in with JaneMcGary and follow the procedure as before. If that doesn't work send them to me and I will post them for you. arnold arnold@nj.rr.com From paph2@earthlink.net Sun Apr 24 14:15:08 2005 Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.2.20050424111410.045ab4c0@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Fritillaria hybrids Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 11:15:02 -0700 Hi Jane: How much has been done with Frit hybrids/ I think it could be a new exciting avenue. Harold At 10:41 AM 4/24/2005, you wrote: >I seem to have some hybrids among California Fritillaria species raised >from home-grown seed. I would post pictures of them on the wiki if I knew >how to sign in, but I have not tried to post anything since it changed, >and apparently I need a password which I do not know, or else I don't know >exactly how to enter my user name. > >Anyway, I apologize if anyone has grown plants from my garden seeds of >Fritillaria purdyi and/or Fritillaria biflora, and now has seedlings in >flower that don't look like what they are supposed to be. It appears that >both groups of plants produced at least a few hybrid seeds. The one with >F. purdyi as a seed parent is quite large, flowering probably 2 years >before the other seedlings in its group, with 10 flowers on a stout stem >-- impressive! -- but the flowers have a greenish ground color rather than >the creamy white of F. purdyi, though they are marked like that species. >The ones with F. biflora as a seed parent are similar, but smaller, with >only 2 or 3 flowers per stem on first flowering; they have typical purdyi >checkering rather than the "tips and stripes" of biflora. Some apparently >pure biflora seedlings are flowering in the same group. > >I will search around and see if I can find out how to access the wiki >during the next few days, to show these interesting plants. Interesting >but disappointing to some, no doubt, because biflora is dead common and >purdyi is much sought after. > >Jane McGary >Northwestern Oregon > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From robertwerra@sbcglobal.net Sun Apr 24 16:04:33 2005 Message-Id: <20050424200432.36275.qmail@web81003.mail.yahoo.com> From: Robert Werra Subject: Calochortus Hybrids Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:04:32 -0700 (PDT) Dear All; Speaking of hybrids, I have a hybrid of Calochortus amabilis and C. tolmei growing on my hillside coming back regularly for years. Also have what appears to be a hybrid of Calochortus monophylus and ?C. umbellatus? They are interesting, but not exciting. I will send images to Mary Sue. Sincerely Bob Werra --- Jane McGary wrote: > I seem to have some hybrids among California > Fritillaria species raised > from home-grown seed. I would post pictures of them > on the wiki if I knew > how to sign in, but I have not tried to post > anything since it changed, and > apparently I need a password which I do not know, or > else I don't know > exactly how to enter my user name. > > Anyway, I apologize if anyone has grown plants from > my garden seeds of > Fritillaria purdyi and/or Fritillaria biflora, and > now has seedlings in > flower that don't look like what they are supposed > to be. It appears that > both groups of plants produced at least a few hybrid > seeds. The one with F. > purdyi as a seed parent is quite large, flowering > probably 2 years before > the other seedlings in its group, with 10 flowers on > a stout stem -- > impressive! -- but the flowers have a greenish > ground color rather than the > creamy white of F. purdyi, though they are marked > like that species. The > ones with F. biflora as a seed parent are similar, > but smaller, with only 2 > or 3 flowers per stem on first flowering; they have > typical purdyi > checkering rather than the "tips and stripes" of > biflora. Some apparently > pure biflora seedlings are flowering in the same > group. > > I will search around and see if I can find out how > to access the wiki > during the next few days, to show these interesting > plants. Interesting but > disappointing to some, no doubt, because biflora is > dead common and purdyi > is much sought after. > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Mon Apr 25 02:08:03 2005 Message-Id: <000001c5495d$22873680$23df403e@John> From: Subject: Fritillaria hybrids Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 21:58:24 +0100 Harold asked: How much has been done with Frit hybrids/ I think it could be a new > exciting avenue. Not a lot and yes it could! John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Apr 24 17:56:11 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20050424144936.010d0720@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Fritillaria hybrids Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:56:06 -0700 At 11:15 AM 4/24/2005 -0700, Harold Koopowitz wrote: >How much has been done with Frit hybrids/ I think it could be a new >exciting avenue. I don't know of any Frit hybrids that are offered commercially. There are a few named natural stable hybrids, such as F. x kittaniae, and some authorities consider F. eastwoodiae a stable natural hybrid between F. micrantha and F. recurva. My possible purdyi x biflora is so large and flowering so young that it may be a useful nursery item, especially if its vigor includes the copious production of offsets -- a characteristic of biflora but not of the rare purdyi. Diana Chapman wrote me recently that some F. liliacea seedling bulbs I sent her include two individuals that seem to have F. agrestis as a parent; both of those species are rare and endangered, and Diana said that wild hybrids had been reported in the past. As interesting as these hybrids are, especially if they are better garden plants than their parents, most people who grow frits are intent on having the true species, so I am rather embarrassed to have sent out possibly mixed seed. However, I hope that anyone who grows exchange seed from garden sources is aware of this possibility and verifies the seedlings before passing on their seeds in turn. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Apr 24 18:14:24 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20050424151306.0107c848@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Fritillaria hybrids Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:14:21 -0700 Thanks, Arnold. It was not as complicated as I feared! I have posted photos of the likely Fritillaria hybrids and their parents on the wiki. See the entries for F. biflora, F. purdyi, and F. biflora x purdyi hybrids at %%%http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Fritillaria/Fritillaria Jane McGary From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Mon Apr 25 15:46:24 2005 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Manfreda virginica Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:17:29 -0700 On Apr 23, 2005, at 10:38 AM, Dennis Kramb wrote: > > Wow! And to think I was nervous about sending an email to the PBS > forum about a plant distinctly NOT of pacific-rim origin. LOL. It > seems M. virginica is a bit of a hit amongst other fellow PBSers. > > Don't ever worry about sending comments or questions about anything plant-related to this forum. I think members of this group grow just about everything that can be grown. And you won't get kicked off or chastised... (...much. Right, Mary Sue?) We just concentrate for the most part on geophytes. In any case, I *am* on the Pacific Rim and I don't think Manfredas are native here, yet I grow quite a few different species from Texas and Mexico, most of them obtained from Yucca Do Nursery in Texas over the years. And I know of a couple more people living here who want to grow them and have come by to see mine. Several of mine have sent up really tall scapes and will bloom in the next couple of weeks. The scapes are from 4 to 6 feet tall right now. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From khixson@nu-world.com Mon Apr 25 15:51:55 2005 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20050425121633.0265ad40@mail.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: Fritillaria hybrids Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:50:37 -0700 >Jane wrote: >As interesting as these hybrids are, especially if they are better garden >plants than their parents, most people who grow frits are intent on having >the true species, so I am rather embarrassed to have sent out possibly >mixed seed. However, I hope that anyone who grows exchange seed from >garden sources is aware of this possibility and verifies the seedlings >before passing on their seeds in turn. Expectation is the key. Someone who expects to get true species will be unhappy if that isn't what they get. However, I'm one of the people who doesn't try to grow many Fritillaria, simply because I can't give them the care they demand. Hybrids of certain species on the other hand would probably be attempted, in hope that they would thrive with the conditions I could give them. I'm not ashamed to admit that I buy seed of "mixed garden hybrids" and select from the seedlings those that suit me/ will grow in my garden. I also admit that at one time I sent seed of Iris chrysophylla to seed exchanges, assuming it was true as it was over a hundred feet from any other pacific coast iris, with shrubbery between. Then one year I thought I needed a few more plants and planted some of my seed. None of them came true, and now I wouldn't share any pacific coast iris unless I had collected it in the wild. That would be done with reluctance, so now no seed is donated, except hybrids. Some people only provide hand pollenated and protected seed, while others send whatever appears on the plant. Either one is acceptable to some but not all buyers. The buyer needs to know which. I know species of Liles, Rhododendrons, Roses, which will give apparently true species even when hand pollenated with foreign pollen. In one experiment, Lilium regale was hand pollenated with foreign pollen for nine generations. The seedlings still appeared to be true L. regale. Thus, if I saw seed offered as L. regale x (something), I would only order that seed if I wanted L. regale. True hybrids can be produced, but I don't know the procedure. The reverse cross, (something) x L regale, on the other hand is often a true hybrid. There are species of rhododendrons I'd be glad to have hybrids from, and would be glad to have open pollenated seed, but the rhody society no longer offers open pollenated seed. Ken From dkramb@badbear.com Mon Apr 25 15:57:25 2005 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20050425154611.01ce58a0@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Manfreda Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:57:26 -0400 At 01:18 PM 4/24/2005, you wrote: >I have one Manfreda viriginica that [...] has never produced any offspring. Do you mean pups? I've assumed that mine has pups. I suppose it could be other seedlings growing tightly against each other. Do Manfredas make pups? I wish I could remember where mine came from. I don't seem to have written it down anywhere (as I usually do with most acquisitions). My best guess was the NEWFS (New England Wild Flower Society) seed exchange. Anyway, a 5 foot bloom stalk sounds fantastic! I've seen pictures of Agaves with enormous bloom stalks over 25 feet tall. So I'm glad to hear Manfreda virginica will also make quite a statement in the garden. In other news, my arilbred iris seedlings are sending up bloom stalks. They grow side by side with my Manfreda in my rock & gravel garden. I can't wait to see them all bloom! One clump is quite dainty with all the plants ranging from 2 inches to 4 inches tall. Most of the other arilbreds are considerably taller. Dennis in Cincinnati where it snowed yesterday and is in the 60's (Fahrenheit) today. From dkramb@badbear.com Mon Apr 25 16:12:34 2005 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20050425155843.01cebcd8@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Iris koreana & Iris odaesanensis Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:12:35 -0400 These are definitely pacific-rim species, and therefore worthy of discussion. :-) About 3 or 4 years ago I got some starts of Iris koreana and Iris odaesanensis from Joe Pye Weed Garden in Massachusetts. I planted them next to each other against the southwestern corner of my house. Iris koreana has NOT been vigorous, but it has increased a little bit in size over the years. It finally bloomed this year, sending up about half a dozen miniature stalks, each producing 2 flowers. Iris odaesanensis HAS been vigorous and now covers an area approximately 4 square feet. It blooms faithfully each year, and is just now starting to bloom again. I'm expecting around 3 dozen stalks this season. I've posted pictures on the SIGNA web database. The flowers of each species are about an inch across. Possibly good candidates for a rock garden, but I grow mine in a semi-shady woodland type spot with a mulchy humousy type soil. http://www.badbear.com/signa/signa.pl?Iris-koreana http://www.badbear.com/signa/signa.pl?Iris-odaesanensis This year with my new camera I hope to get even better pics of Iris odaesensis. Dennis in Cincinnati From Antennaria@aol.com Mon Apr 25 23:22:02 2005 Message-Id: <1f5.889b920.2f9f0dd6@aol.com> From: Antennaria@aol.com Subject: Fritillaria hybrids Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 23:21:58 EDT Jane McGary janemcgary@earthlink.net writes re: Fritillaria hybrids: >Anyway, I apologize if anyone has grown plants >from my garden seeds of Fritillaria purdyi and/or >Fritillaria biflora, and now has seedlings in flower >that don't look like what they are supposed to be. Hi Jane et al, I've been wanting to post a message to this forum, regarding young bulbs that you sell. Basically, I'm delighted by the chance to get young undersized-as-advertised bulbs for a great discount price... the subsequent success rate has been strong and I urge others to take advantage of the opportunity. For example, I did receive Fritillaria biflora "grayana" from you; a dozen small bulblets. Now, in their 3rd year, all sprouting frits look good, and four out of 12 are budded up. In a week or so I should be able to post images, and maybe you can tell me whether the seed hybridized or not! The Fritillaria pudica young bulbs you sold, for a very few $, have resurfaced every year looking bigger and stronger each year. No blooms this year, the 2nd or 3rd year, but there are 36 strong shoots in a small patch, so I have visions of a nice patch of dainty yellow bells one day. I can wait. Please keep offering young bulbs for sale... they do just fine and offer a terrific way to get some of the finest rare bulb species around, but for very reasonable $. Also just starting into flower, again from your bulbs, is Frit. crassifolia kurdica.. a miniature gem. I'm so pleased to have frits that keep coming back and doing well. Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5 ============================================== >> web site under construction - http://www.PlantBuzz.com << alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western american alpines, iris, plants of all types! From msittner@mcn.org Wed Apr 27 01:26:10 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050426221608.02d14d20@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Fritillaria hybrids Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:25:57 -0700 Hi, Those people wanting to see Jane's pictures need to look here instead of the url she listed: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NorthAmericanFritillarias It looks like her hybrids are from the plant called Fritillaria grayana, aka. Fritillaria roderickii, also known as Fritillaria biflora var. biflora in the Jepson Manual although many of us do not think this plant should be lumped with Fritillaria biflora. My Fritillaria biflora blooms much earlier in the year. F. roderickii and F. purdyi do bloom at about the same time. I guess I need to worry about this since we'd really like to reintroduce F. roderickii in the wild where it used to be and I've been growing it from my seed and now have one F. purdyi blooming too and that could be a problem in future. All the ones I have now were grown from seed from bulbs rescued from the wild when the redid the Highway. Mary Sue At 03:14 PM 4/24/05 -0700, you wrote: >Thanks, Arnold. It was not as complicated as I feared! > >I have posted photos of the likely Fritillaria hybrids and their parents >on the wiki. See the entries for F. biflora, F. purdyi, and F. biflora x >purdyi hybrids at >%%%http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Fritillaria/Fritillaria > >Jane McGary > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Steve.Burger@choa.org Wed Apr 27 07:45:09 2005 Message-Id: <0BAB7B6F7D5A53418C3B75FA01DE2BED05FE1D99@CHOAMAIL4.choa.org> From: "Burger, Steve" Subject: Zephyranthes atamasca vs. Z. simpsonii Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 07:44:55 -0400 Hey y'all, I have read that one can ID these two by the relative length of stamen and pistil. I have been trying to ID mine (I threw (sorta) several of both in the garden between fall and late winter. Now some are flowering. Funny though, even on the same plant these flower parts aren't consistant in their relative proportions and one right now has both at the same length. Since Z. simpsonii is supposed to be more floriferous I thought I could ID them that way, but that doesn't seem very scientific. IS there a smoking gun to tell them apart? To make matters worse...they didn't all survive (or just haven't emerged in a noticeable way), so I may be looking at all of the same species... Thanks, Steve From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Wed Apr 27 08:47:58 2005 Message-Id: <000f01c54b27$11256bc0$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Zephyranthes atamasca vs. Z. simpsonii Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 08:46:00 -0400 Simpsonii has pinkish keels, rounder, more stout tepals (the flower will turn pink as it closes), and glaucous leaves. Endemic to just North Florida,probably only few big stands are left in Alachua county. I saw one population being destroyed as I would ride my bike to classes at UF about 9-10 yrs ago. Now what is really tricky is determining Z. atamasco var. treatiae vs. var. atamasco (treatiae occurs more in open flatwoods and has shorter style). Fun to look at in the field and play guessing games. I hope to see some today and tomorrow. I saw a colony nearby of atamascolilies being dug by the DOT towiden a road, which was suddenly closed and could not gain access. Best, Kevin D. Preuss www.Amaryllis-Plus.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Burger, Steve" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:44 AM Subject: [pbs] Zephyranthes atamasca vs. Z. simpsonii Hey y'all, I have read that one can ID these two by the relative length of stamen and pistil. I have been trying to ID mine (I threw (sorta) several of both in the garden between fall and late winter. Now some are flowering. Funny though, even on the same plant these flower parts aren't consistant in their relative proportions and one right now has both at the same length. Since Z. simpsonii is supposed to be more floriferous I thought I could ID them that way, but that doesn't seem very scientific. IS there a smoking gun to tell them apart? To make matters worse...they didn't all survive (or just haven't emerged in a noticeable way), so I may be looking at all of the same species... Thanks, Steve _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jimmckenney@starpower.net Wed Apr 27 09:10:12 2005 Message-Id: <3u3f9p$q1cqg@smtp04.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Zephyranthes atamasca vs. Z. simpsonii Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:09:10 -0400 Steve, I don't know the answer to your question about the distinctions between Zephyranthes atamasco and Z. simpsonii. But you post prompted me to tell an atamasco lily story. Last weekend I had the chance to visit a famous garden in northern North Carolina. About a half hour north of our destination, as we sailed down the two lane road at 55 mph, I let out a whoop: I thought I had seen atamasco lilies blooming by the roadside. Because we had a scheduled appointment with our host, my companions were reluctant to stop. As we got farther and farther away from the site, I began to doubt what I had seen. The flowers seemed a bit big for Zephyranthes atamasco, at least as I had known it. Our host, who grows an amazing array of plants very well, surprised my by not having Z. atamasco - although several other Zephyranthes were present in the garden. On the return trip I keep my eyes peeled for the roadside plants. Luckily we found them. As we approached the site, I had a growing sense that I was about to be disappointed: maybe what I saw were plastic Easter lilies someone had put out on the lawn. But no, they were atamasco lilies, really big, shapely, beautiful atamasco lilies. The fragrance was wonderful. It was a windy day, and some of the plants had assumed a posture which made it easy to see why so many people call this the Easter lily. I've posted a photo of these plants (the ones which were doing the Easter lily imitation) to the wiki: http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Zephyranthes/Zephyranthes_atamas co_jmck_01.jpg.JPG Those of you who know this genus well may be able to answer a question for me. My impression is that Z. atamasco has the largest flowers of the genus. Is that true? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where my atamasco lilies have yet to bloom this year. From arnold@nj.rr.com Wed Apr 27 09:37:24 2005 Message-Id: <1b19771ae06c.1ae06c1b1977@rdc-nyc.rr.com> From: arnold@nj.rr.com Subject: cardiocrinum Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:37:22 -0400 As a follow up to an image I posted last year on the wiki wiki, I can report that it looks like the cardiocrinum I have grown is going to flower this year. The new growth is in the form of a stalk that is pushing straight up and at this point is about twelve inches tall. There are heart shaped leaves attached, clutching close to the stem. I think Jim M. may have mentioned that when the bulb pushes up from the soil it is a sure sign that flowering is on the way. As I uncovered the bulb from its winter mulch the bulb had pushed up three to four inches. It was planted as a two year old from Heronswood Nursery before the nursery was sold. Sadly I can't post an image. My digital camera was the victim of a loan to a friend and didn't make it back in operating condition. Any recommendations on a good replacement will be greatly appreciated. Please post privately to Arnold@nj.rr.com Arnold From jimmckenney@starpower.net Wed Apr 27 11:03:46 2005 Message-Id: <3u3gb7$rpfmg@smtp05.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Zephyranthes atamasca vs. Z. simpsonii Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:03:42 -0400 The correct link to the new Zephyranthes atamasco picture is http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Zephyranthes/Zephyranthes_atamas co_jmck_01.jpg Sorry for any confusion. Jim McKenney From Steve.Burger@choa.org Wed Apr 27 11:19:14 2005 Message-Id: <0BAB7B6F7D5A53418C3B75FA01DE2BED0A08619E@CHOAMAIL4.choa.org> From: "Burger, Steve" Subject: Zephyranthes atamasca vs. Z. simpsonii Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:18:57 -0400 Thanks to all, I think mine are simpsonii. Lots of red in the flowers and they aren't quite so open and relaxed. Also the foliage (shipping funky) is a little glaucus, although not very! 'Tis great to see a rain lily this early. Steve -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jim McKenney Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:04 AM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: RE: [pbs] Zephyranthes atamasca vs. Z. simpsonii The correct link to the new Zephyranthes atamasco picture is http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Zephyranthes/Zephyranthes_at amas co_jmck_01.jpg Sorry for any confusion. Jim McKenney _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Wed Apr 27 11:34:45 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050427082805.0279eb50@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Folders Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 08:35:13 -0700 Hi, For a majority of the genera on our wiki we have created folders or subdirectories where all the pictures of that genera are kept. We had to do this since the file section was getting so huge it took forever to load and manage. When you upload a file it goes directly to the file section. It does not get moved to a subdirectory until one of us who has permission to do that moves it. So if you announce a file as being in the subdirectory before it gets there anyone clicking on that url will get an error message. We have tried to get around this by asking people to announce the wiki page, not the url, but even this won't work if you have listed it as being in a subdirectory before it is there. It is actually a help if you add the subdirectory on the page when you edit it as long as one of us can move it quickly. But please don't announce this to the group until one of us has a change to move the file so that it will display properly. I can do it as can Jay Yourch, Susan Hayek, Mark McDonough, and Dave Brastow. Thanks. Mary Sue From jglatt@ptd.net Wed Apr 27 12:24:33 2005 Message-Id: <3C3554AB.3030200@ptd.net> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: inside color Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:24:33 -0000 A friend just called to ask what is the color inside a crocosmia corm. I don't know, and while my reference books happily list details of shape, size, appearance of tunic, tunic color etc none mention the interior. Now, it is true that most of us do our best to avoid inadvertently slicing and dicing our bulbs. But if you did mangle a crocosmia (I think it was the good old common 'Lucifer' that Jayne had in hand) she and I would appreciate knowing what color the inside of a healthy corm is supposed to be. TIA Judy in New Jersey where last night's 8/10th of an inch of rain has significantly greened up the landscape - verdant for sure. From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Wed Apr 27 14:19:34 2005 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: inside color Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 18:19:32 +0000 >From: Judy Glattstein >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >Subject: [pbs] inside color >Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 02:07:23 -0500 > >A friend just called to ask what is the color inside a crocosmia corm. I >don't know, and while my reference books happily list details of shape, >size, appearance of tunic, tunic color etc none mention the interior. >Now, it is true that most of us do our best to avoid inadvertently >slicing and dicing our bulbs. But if you did mangle a crocosmia (I think >it was the good old common 'Lucifer' that Jayne had in hand) she and I >would appreciate knowing what color the inside of a healthy corm is >supposed to be. TIA > >Judy in New Jersey where last night's 8/10th of an inch of rain has >significantly greened up the landscape - verdant for sure. Hi Judy: The color is a good cream that turns white when the wound is dried. Taxonomy through beheading..........? Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Las mejores tiendas, los precios mas bajos, entregas en todo el mundo, YupiMSN Compras: http://latam.msn.com/compras/ From johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk Wed Apr 27 17:04:45 2005 Message-Id: <009d01c54b6c$bb044ea0$c38e403e@John> From: Subject: inside color Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 20:45:50 +0100 In Crocosmia x crocosmiflora, common 'montbretia' of English gardens, creamy-white. Old corms back down the chain go brown as they decay but still feel solid. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Glattstein" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 8:07 AM Subject: [pbs] inside color > A friend just called to ask what is the color inside a crocosmia corm. I From jimmckenney@starpower.net Wed Apr 27 15:53:46 2005 Message-Id: <3u3gb7$ru2nc@smtp05.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Wiki Folders Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 15:53:44 -0400 Mary Sue wrote: "But please don't announce this to the group until one of us has a chance to move the file so that it will display properly." When the move has been made, will someone notify the poster and give them the OK to announce? Jim McKenney From jimmckenney@starpower.net Wed Apr 27 19:33:58 2005 Message-Id: <3u3f9p$qa2ac@smtp04.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: cardiocrinum Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 19:33:56 -0400 Arnold wrote: "I think Jim M. may have mentioned that when the bulb pushes up from the soil it is a sure sign that flowering is on the way. As I uncovered the bulb from its winter mulch the bulb had pushed up three to four inches." Actually, Arnold, what I was calling attention to is a characteristic of the growth habit of Cardiocrinum cordatum. Young, non-blooming plants produce leaves all of which seem to come directly from the bulb (seemingly acauline in botany-speak). Blooming plants, on the other hand, start out with leaves at ground level; later, the annual stem below the false whorl of leaves elongates. It was this elongation of the annual stem below the false whorl which signals bloom in this species. As a result of the elongation of the annual stem below the false whorl, the foliage is lifted eight to ten inches above the ground: at this stage the plants suggest a Hosta on a stick. Several weeks after attaining this stage, the annual stem again elongates, this time above the false whorl. This secondary elongation above the false whorl initiates the development of the inflorescence. I don't grow mature Cardiocrinum giganteum (although my young plant has come back strongly this year), so I have no idea if it goes through the same two tiered growth stage before blooming. I don't recall having seen this two tiered growth pattern described in the literature for C. giganteum, and photographs of flowering plants do not show whorled foliage - so it's unlikely that this two tiered growth pattern occurs in C. giganteum. Arnold, maybe you will be able to answer this question later this year. Congratulations on flowering this amazing plant. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Cardiocrinum cordatum, which produced two flowering stems last year, has returned as two smaller, non-flowering rosettes this year. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of arnold@nj.rr.com Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:37 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] cardiocrinum As a follow up to an image I posted last year on the wiki wiki, I can report that it looks like the cardiocrinum I have grown is going to flower this year. The new growth is in the form of a stalk that is pushing straight up and at this point is about twelve inches tall. There are heart shaped leaves attached, clutching close to the stem. I think Jim M. may have mentioned that when the bulb pushes up from the soil it is a sure sign that flowering is on the way. As I uncovered the bulb from its winter mulch the bulb had pushed up three to four inches. It was planted as a two year old from Heronswood Nursery before the nursery was sold. Sadly I can't post an image. My digital camera was the victim of a loan to a friend and didn't make it back in operating condition. Any recommendations on a good replacement will be greatly appreciated. Please post privately to Arnold@nj.rr.com Arnold _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Wed Apr 27 20:39:49 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050427163508.0533b170@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Folders Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:39:42 -0700 >When the move has been made, will someone notify the poster and give them >the OK to announce? I can't speak for anyone else, but if someone writes me and tells me they have uploaded a file and asks me to move it to a folder, I'd be happy to notify that person when it is done. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Wed Apr 27 20:39:51 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050427163434.01ffa970@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: PBS list topics Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:04:40 -0700 Hi all, Since a recent thread indicated there might be confusion about what can be discussed on this list I'll repeat what is says on our list information page: "Although bulbs (defined more broadly to include all geophytes) are the focus, we recognize that people who grow them probably grow other things too and will be talking about them from time to time." There is no requirement of limiting our discussion to geophytes that only grow on the Pacific Rim. Most people on this list are really good about keeping the discussion to our topic or related subjects that they think others would be interested in. Occasional off-topic remarks don't last long and can be deleted easily as long as the subject line is clear. Perhaps because of our experiences on another list Arnold and I decided to be relatively permissive as long as the conversation is polite and friendly and plant related. We don't even do anything to people who repeatedly include the whole message in their reply except occasionally ask them privately not to do so. Geophytic orchids have been discussed in the past. Many people are really interested in them and I encourage you to add pictures to the wiki of them. Jane is certainly welcome to tell us about any she saw on her trip to Crete if she wants to. Some of us who have been sharing on this list for awhile see it as a community of sorts and are interested in experiences that others have that we all might learn from. For example I imagine there are people who would be very interested in whatever information Arnold receives about a replacement for his digital camera. Photographing flowers with digital cameras was one of our first topics of the week many years ago and so much has changed since then. As long as the subject line is clear, it allows readers to decide what they want to read and he or she can delete the rest. Mary Sue From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Apr 27 20:56:01 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20050427175337.010e6170@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Delphinium luteum Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:55:59 -0700 The geophytic yellow delphinium, D. luteum, is in full bloom in the bulb frame now. This California species is endangered, with only two wild sites. I bought seed of it many years ago, I believe from the Robinetts, and it has perpetuated itself in the frames. Two years ago I sent out dormant roots of this plant to some people who bought bulbs from my list, to see how it would do when so handled. I'd like to know if anyone had good results from this, because I'll be lifting the plants this summer again and would like to distribute more roots if they proved viable in the trial run. How did they do? Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon From arnold@nj.rr.com Wed Apr 27 20:56:56 2005 Message-Id: <427034D6.8090609@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: cardiocrinum Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 20:56:54 -0400 Jim: The stem elongates day by day. Also around the base there are three of four 'pups' that have also pushed up through the soil. Now if I had my camera I would be able to document the entire process. Think I could borrow someone's? Arnold From john@johnlonsdale.net Wed Apr 27 21:18:22 2005 Message-Id: <20050428011822.A3EE14C006@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: Delphinium luteum Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:17:08 -0400 Jane, I had a couple from you and they came up the first spring but have yet to show this year. I don't think it is any fault of yours or the dormant roots. None of the Alstromeria have reappeared either but I also put that down to my conditions (or me). I appreciate the chance to experiment and still have a few more places to try these things! Thanks, J. John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From susanann@sbcglobal.net Wed Apr 27 22:16:11 2005 Message-Id: From: Susan Hayek Subject: Private: RE: [pbs] Wiki Folders Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 19:17:00 -0700 Are you home? >>When the move has been made, will someone notify the poster and give them >>the OK to announce? > >I can't speak for anyone else, but if someone writes me and tells me >they have uploaded a file and asks me to move it to a folder, I'd be >happy to notify that person when it is done. -- susan, who is..... owned by Jasper & Schubert the Standard Poodles, Gracie the Rhodesian, Pup-Quiz the Basenji and their Basenji brother, Jones.... on the North Coast of CA, USA susanann@sbcglobal.net, copyright 2005 From susanann@sbcglobal.net Wed Apr 27 22:46:32 2005 Message-Id: From: Susan Hayek Subject: Wiki Folders/oops Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 19:46:58 -0700 **Sorry, this, of course, was meant to go private. duh... >Are you home? > > >>>When the move has been made, will someone notify the poster and give them >>>the OK to announce? >> >>I can't speak for anyone else, but if someone writes me and tells >>me they have uploaded a file and asks me to move it to a folder, >>I'd be happy to notify that person when it is done. -- susan, who is..... owned by Jasper & Schubert the Standard Poodles, Gracie the Rhodesian, Pup-Quiz the Basenji and their Basenji brother, Jones.... on the North Coast of CA, USA susanann@sbcglobal.net, copyright 2005 From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Thu Apr 28 19:35:51 2005 Message-Id: <20050428233551.81403.qmail@web50102.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Architecture Subject: Jane/Bulb frame Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:35:51 -0700 (PDT) Jane, You've mentioned several times about your bulb frame. Can you give a little more description? To me a "frame" is a small structure and I couldn't imagine a Delphinium blooming in it. I think of a cold frame type structure made from 2 x 12 or 1 x 12 with old window panes on top that are raised durung warm weather. I think this would work for a lot of your smaller bulbs, narcissus, romuleas, crocus, non hardy misc. things and such but not the taller things you have tlaked about. Do tell. Inquiring minds want to know. John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Thu Apr 28 19:43:32 2005 Message-Id: <20050428234332.99480.qmail@web50106.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Architecture Subject: Manfreda virginica Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Well, I guess I was wrong about the state of my M. virginica. I was going to move ti to ful sun and realised there was already a flower spike forming. So, I am a happy camper. I'll try and take some photos this weekend of those that I have (3) and post them on the wiki if they are not already there. I did get the M. Mocha Mocha from Plant Delights last year. It survived, unintentionaly wrapped in a box completely dry in my uncle's garage in OH for 2 months. It has completely come back with little leaf loss and looks great right now. I love the mottled sepia tone of the leaves. It will work in gardens really well with other sepia, toffee, bronze colored foliage plants, i.e. Carex, Phormiums, etc. I look forward to seeing what the flowers look like. I will fertilizing my virginica to increase my stock. Mine was purchased on eBay from a woman on the East coast. I no longer have her name (without extensive digging in paperwork) but there were not any listed on eBay last week when I looked. Maybe we need to start selling more of them. Hey, Joe, how many do you have? John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Apr 28 19:48:32 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20050428164602.01125080@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Jane/Bulb frame Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:48:27 -0700 John Ingram wrote, >Jane, > >You've mentioned several times about your bulb frame. Can you give a >little more description? To me a "frame" is a small structure and I >couldn't imagine a Delphinium blooming in it. > >I think of a cold frame type structure made from 2 x 12 or 1 x 12 with old >window panes on top that are raised durung warm weather. I think this >would work for a lot of your smaller bulbs, narcissus, romuleas, crocus, >non hardy misc. things and such but not the taller things you have tlaked >about. My bulb frames are rather large, about 5 feet high at the ridgepole of the newer ones and about 3 feet high in the older ones, and are described and pictured in the recent Timber Press book "Rock Garden Design and Construction. However, Delphinium luteum (native to your adopted state of California, John) is only about 20 inches tall in flower. There are many small Delphinium species -- they're not just the familiar massive border perennials. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From jimmckenney@starpower.net Thu Apr 28 19:53:15 2005 Message-Id: <3u3gb7$sjd9g@smtp05.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Jane/Bulb frame Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 19:53:13 -0400 John, get a copy of Rock Garden Design and Construction by the North American Rock Garden Society (and, incidentally, edited by Jane). Her frames are nicely illustrated there - and they're to die for! One photo suggests that Jane has more area devoted to frames than I do to my entire garden. Jim McKenney -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Floral Architecture Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:36 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Jane/Bulb frame Jane, You've mentioned several times about your bulb frame. Can you give a little more description? To me a "frame" is a small structure and I couldn't imagine a Delphinium blooming in it. I think of a cold frame type structure made from 2 x 12 or 1 x 12 with old window panes on top that are raised durung warm weather. I think this would work for a lot of your smaller bulbs, narcissus, romuleas, crocus, non hardy misc. things and such but not the taller things you have tlaked about. Do tell. Inquiring minds want to know. John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From eagle85@flash.net Thu Apr 28 22:10:23 2005 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Manfreda virginica Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 19:11:06 -0700 John, If you are still interested, I have some of those Pelargoniums that you WERE interested in. Doug From samarak@gizmoworks.com Fri Apr 29 00:25:17 2005 Message-Id: From: Steve Marak Subject: Manfreda virginica Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 23:25:16 -0500 (CDT) Manfreda virginica is native here (NW Arkansas) and one of my favorites. The spotting on the leaves of the local plants isn't everything you could want, since it seldom extends more than about halfway up the leaves, but it's very cute, easy to grow when sited right, and the flowers are very fragrant. Does look a bit odd with a 5-6 foot (1.5-1.8 meter) inflorescence on this tiny 6-8 inch (15-20 cm.) rosette of leaves. Locally, the biggest happiest populations are on south facing road cuts with a few inches of soil over rock. Moist in the spring, bakes in the summer. Other plants commonly in the same habitat (though not really geophytes) are Callirhoe digitata, Penstemon digitalis, Asclepias verticillata. (One of the best of these roadcuts is unfortunately scheduled for widening soon.) It's easy to grow from seed and happily produces a lot of seed, which can be full size in 2 years if you're lucky, 3 if not. Steve On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Floral Architecture wrote: > Well, I guess I was wrong about the state of my M. virginica. I was going to > move ti to ful sun and realised there was already a flower spike forming. So, > I am a happy camper. I'll try and take some photos this weekend of those that > I have (3) and post them on the wiki if they are not already there. I did > get the M. Mocha Mocha from Plant Delights last year. It survived, > unintentionaly wrapped in a box completely dry in my uncle's garage in OH for > 2 months. It has completely come back with little leaf loss and looks great > right now. I love the mottled sepia tone of the leaves. It will work in > gardens really well with other sepia, toffee, bronze colored foliage plants, > i.e. Carex, Phormiums, etc. I look forward to seeing what the flowers look > like. > > I will fertilizing my virginica to increase my stock. > Mine was purchased on eBay from a woman on the East coast. I no longer have > her name (without extensive digging in paperwork) but there were not any > listed on eBay last week when I looked. Maybe we need to start selling more > of them. Hey, Joe, how many do you have? -- Steve Marak -- samarak@gizmoworks.com From msittner@mcn.org Fri Apr 29 01:18:22 2005 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20050428215110.028e8da0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Delphinium luteum Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 22:17:46 -0700 Hi, I too am curious if any of the Delphiniums I gave the BX made it. I planted a number of my native Delphiniums in my garden a few years ago and some of them are returning every year and increasing and others have disappeared. They are surviving with very little water during their summer dormancy. Delphinium luteum is doing very well as is D. hesperium, D. nudicaule and D. parryi. D. nudicaule is now appearing in spots where it reseeded as well (pathways, etc.). Several times I've tried D. variegatum in the ground and it has only lasted a year each time. D. cardinale got eaten and the second time that happened did not resprout. The ones that are doing the best are the ones that grow in my county naturally or in coastal counties in California. I continue to try new species that are not mountain species that would spend their winter under snow when I get a chance with seed and when I have enough blooming size some of them go in the ground to trial. I really love them. My experience has been they transplant better if you grow them in a container for a couple of years until the rootstock is bigger before you put them out. I've two more new species about to bloom in the ground now and they make nice rock garden plants as they aren't very tall, but time will tell whether they return next year. Last week my husband and two of our friends spent seven plus days driving around mostly the central part of California looking for flowers. We knew we were too late for the desert and other places like Carrizo Plain. We had planned to go there, but a telephone call before we left revealed we were too late. Someone sent me the url below with this text: "the East side of Carrizo plains in the Tremblor range, orange & yellow daisies and blue phacelia". I recommend you click on it even if the plants aren't geophytes as the picture is rather amazing. http://www.desertusa.com/wildflo/images05/Tremblor3.05L.jpg In spite of missing the desert shows and Carrizo we found a lot of spectacular combinations of flowers and many geophytes and were very satisfied with all we saw. Every single day we found Dichelostemma capitatum (it is indeed widespread) and every day we found some kind of Delphinium in bloom. Figuring out which turned out to be fruitless in many cases and photographing them in focus wasn't easy either. The Jepson Manual which we had along has an impossible Delphinium key. The other geophytes that we had questions about were all the Alliums we saw. Since they often require you to look at the seed coat (if intact) with a microscope we were rather limited since we weren't digging bulbs. I hope to be able to write a bit about some of the things we saw and add some habitat pictures of some of the geophytes to the wiki: many Alliums, one Brodiaea species, five Triteleia species, one Fritillaria, multiple Delphiniums, several Dichelostemmas, and a number of Calochortus to name a few. Mary Sue From floralartistry2000@yahoo.com Fri Apr 29 02:51:28 2005 Message-Id: <20050429065126.9359.qmail@web50104.mail.yahoo.com> From: Floral Architecture Subject: Gladiolus angustus Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 23:51:26 -0700 (PDT) I have 2 seedling bulbs that are 2 years old that are flowering. They are the only 2 in the pot and they have 3 and 4 blooms per spike. I am pretty happy with that. I will be taking photos in the next day or so and can post them to the wiki when I get a chance. Is it too soon to self pollenate? Should I wait until next year? They may not flower next year (I'm really tough on my plants). John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com check it out Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) From eagle85@flash.net Fri Apr 29 12:38:22 2005 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Hippeastrum evansiae Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:39:04 -0700 I have added a pic of Hipp. evansiae to the wiki. The flowers seem to get more beautiful with each year the bulb matures. This year, the flowere are almost "spider" like. Doug Westfall http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Hippeastrum_evansiae_DW.jpg From tony@plantdelights.com Fri Apr 29 18:17:58 2005 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20050429181800.015fabe0@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: Hippeastrum evansiae Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 18:18:00 -0400 Doug: Has anyone planted Hipp. evansii outdoors in a cold temperate climate and if so, what temperatures has it endured? We just planted one this spring and have our fingers crossed. At 09:39 AM 4/29/2005 -0700, you wrote: >I have added a pic of Hipp. evansiae to the wiki. The flowers seem to get >more beautiful with each year the bulb matures. This year, the flowere are >almost "spider" like. > >Doug Westfall > > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Hippeastrum_evansiae_DW.jpg > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From eagle85@flash.net Fri Apr 29 22:27:05 2005 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Hippeastrum evansiae Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:27:46 -0700 Tony AventDoug Westfall tony@plantdelights.com1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Doug: > > Has anyone planted Hipp. evansii outdoors in a cold temperate climate and > if so, what temperatures has it endured? We just planted one this spring > and have our fingers crossed. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This was a seedling from S. Am. I cannot comment "authoritatively" as our weather is not too cold. When it first arrived here, it stayed out in the coldest that we had here and has never been under "protective" cover." Having just spent a week in Tenn. and No. Carolina last week, I can say that it would survive during the Spring and Summer. My "wild guess" is that it may need protection in the Winter. Is your's under a tree or a Rodadendron sp ? It is worth a try. My experience is that during the brightest/hottest part of the day, the flower tends to "bow its head." Later, when the sun is past, it "looks up" again. Let me know your results. Doug From jimlykos@optusnet.com.au Sat Apr 30 03:44:14 2005 Message-Id: <008601c54d58$72663990$cb78ecdc@AMARYLLIS> From: "Jim Lykos" Subject: Hippeastrum evansiae Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:44:31 +1000 Tony, I think they will perish if planted in open garden beds. Last year lost the only two bulbs I had of Hippeastrum evansiae which were housed in a roofed shade house during winter in zone 10. The winter wasnt particularly cold (zone 10 - warm temperate conditions) with a minimum in winter of 2 degrees centigrade. I have also grown seedlings of evansii primary hybrids to flowering stage in garden beds - but noticed that they also remain susceptible to colder winter spells (-3 degrees), and most have perished since flowering. Cheers Jim Lykos Lower Blue Mountains Sydney Australia From tony@plantdelights.com Sat Apr 30 07:21:11 2005 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20050430072114.015f2ff0@66.39.59.108> From: Tony Avent Subject: Hippeastrum evansiae Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 07:21:14 -0400 Doug: My plants came from the Louisiana Hort Research Farm, from a wild collection several decades ago. It is hardy there in Zone 8b/9A, but am not sure how much further north it will survive. It was growing in light shade there. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent From hyline@tampabay.rr.com Sat Apr 30 10:34:11 2005 Message-Id: <001901c54d91$1c61df20$6500a8c0@tampabay.rr.com> From: "Kevin D. Preuss" Subject: Hippeastrum evansiae Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 10:30:08 -0400 I have grown it in Gainesville, FL (Zone 8A) in the partial shade of live oak (which probably kept frost crystals from settling on the foliage. It had temps as low as 26 F. It has to be dry to get those temps or they will rot, if winters in green house may even stay evergreen even though dry. Doug's image is different from the 3 forms I have seen...there is much more red on the tepals. Mine havbe only shown atinge of pink after a few days old. One form gets a magenta almost purplish near the center. Is the spidery one H. anazoldoii? I wonder many taxa out there that are part of H.evansiae? Kevin D. Preuss www.Amaryllis-Plus.com From eagle85@flash.net Sat Apr 30 11:31:22 2005 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Hippeastrum evansiae Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 08:32:04 -0700 Jim LykosDoug Westfall jimlykos@optusnet.com.au1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > Tony, > > I think they will perish if planted in open garden beds. > Last year lost the only two bulbs I had of Hippeastrum evansiae which were > housed in a roofed shade house during winter in zone 10. The winter wasnt > particularly cold (zone 10 - warm temperate conditions) with a minimum in > winter of 2 degrees centigrade. > > I have also grown seedlings of evansii primary hybrids to flowering stage in > garden beds - but noticed that they also remain susceptible to colder winter > spells (-3 degrees), and most have perished since flowering. > > Cheers > > Jim Lykos This may be the case. Another possibility is too much water while dormant. Doug From eagle85@flash.net Sat Apr 30 11:40:30 2005 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Hippeastrum evansiae Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 08:41:14 -0700 Kevin D. PreussDoug Westfall hyline@tampabay.rr.com1111 Claiborne Dr. Long Beach, CA > It has to be dry to get those temps or they will rot, if winters in green > house may even stay evergreen even though dry. > Doug's image is different from the 3 forms I have seen...there is much more > red on the tepals. Mine havbe only shown atinge of pink after a few days > old. One form gets a magenta almost purplish near the center. Is the > spidery one H. anazoldoii? I wonder many taxa out there that are part of > H.evansiae? > Kevin D. Preuss > www.Amaryllis-Plus.com > Kevin, That is a good question. Dennis Tsang mentions a form that is "spidery." We need more ijnput on that question. Mine showed more of the pink in the first 3 - 5 days. The picture as posted is what they look like today. Did you see the pictures of my Hipp. intiflorum? It is an orange-red. Doug From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat Apr 30 14:47:29 2005 Message-Id: <4273D2BE.8030805@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: choraea Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 14:47:26 -0400 A chilean bulb taken by Osmani Baullosa http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Chloraea Arnold From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat Apr 30 18:22:31 2005 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Hippeastrum evansiae Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 22:22:31 +0000 Dear all: A most interesting thread as many regions in which Hippeastrums were growing wild in South America are totally dedicated to agriculture and the stock in cultivation is ultra precious now. Evansiae is one of the three species that has a yellow color of some sort (along with parodii and aglaiae). Doug's image is of evansiae proper but the red hint is typical of an ageing flower so is this an indication of some crossing with other species some time in the past? Jim Lykos info coincides exactly with the species' conditions in the wild. A long dry winter (say of zone 10) and then a hot rainy late spring/summer/autumn season of growth in zone 10/11. Some info can be misleading to say the least. I am sure there is people that can grow such bulbs in Minnesota or Saskatchewan but only under the same conditions it has in its Bolivian habitat. Interesting information in past issues of Plant Life suggests that this species is very touchy as to excess watering at any time of its growth period and in fact it comes from hot dry forests rather than rainy jungles. It is better to give it Cyrtanthus culture. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.latam.msn.com/