pbs Digest, Vol 33, Issue 32 climate zones et al

Adam Fikso irisman@ameritech.net
Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:08:36 PDT
Keep writing what you're writing,Lee.  You do it well, it hasn't been too 
much for me. As a former Californian (Berkeley)  who grows oddball stuff in 
Illinois, you help clarrify and keep my thinking sharp.  Adam in Glenview,IL 
USDA Z 5a



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 6:07 PM
Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 33, Issue 32


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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Eulophias (bonaventure@optonline.net)
>   2. Climate zones (Gary)
>   3. Re: Climate zones (John Grimshaw)
>   4. Re: Climate Zones/'Cooling' at night (Susan Hayek)
>   5. Re: Climate zones (John Bryan)
>   6. Re: Climate zones (Tony Avent)
>   7. Re: Climate Zones (ConroeJoe@aol.com)
>   8. Re: Climate Zones/'Cooling' at night (Lee Poulsen)
>   9. Re: Climate zones (Lee Poulsen)
>  10. Re: Climate zones (Tony Avent)
>  11. Re: Climate zones (Rodger Whitlock)
>  12. Re: Eulophias (Robert Hamilton)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:10:44 -0400
> From: bonaventure@optonline.net
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Eulophias
> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <e054a92b8700.43622354@optonline.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Barbara wrote:
> I'm curious, Bonaventure, about the requirements of this Eulophia. New 
> Jersey is much more humid than New Mexico. Does it require humidity to 
> thrive?
> Thanks,
> - Barbara Weintraub
> Santa Fe, NM
> USDA cold zone 5b/6a
>
> -- 
> I just brought my Eulophia keithii indoors. Now I put them under bright 
> light and stop all watering until new growth resumes in March or April. 
> The long thin (unorchid-like) grasslike leaves will soon wither and fall 
> off leaving attractive dark green flattened conical pseudobulbs 2-3 inches 
> tall, making the whole pot much more compact. When the growth resumes I 
> divide into 2-3 pseudobulb sections and repot into fresh potting soil 
> amended with perlite. Blooming soon follows, the inflorescence somewhat 
> resembling that of a smaller Cymbidium sinense or ensifolium. These are 
> enjoyed indoors. Then the plants are acclimated to full sunlight outdoors 
> in May and fertilized heavily untill fall.
> Easy as pie - first neglect with no water, then throw water and fertilizer 
> on every day. I have extras available and am looking for other species.
> Bonaventure Magrys
> Cliffwood Beach, NJ USA
>
>
> I dunno, but I would suggest acclimating it slowly to the higher light 
> levels in NM when put outside and beginning growth and keeping it amply 
> moist. I would watch for spider mites on the thin foliage. It grows like a 
> weed if you follow the key to indulge it with water and food while in 
> growth to ripen the pseudobulbs,  and follow with sharp sharp deprivation 
> for 5-6 months. I have photos but putting them on the wiki is an exercise 
> in futility and frustration.
> Bonaventure@optonline.net
> Anyone want divisions contact me privately and I can divide them soon when 
> all the leaves are shed and bareroot send them for a small fee covering 
> postage & labor.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 07:59:26 -1000
> From: "Gary" <doji@hawaii.rr.com>
> Subject: [pbs] Climate zones
> To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <001e01c5dbe9$568de590$370ffea9@aeiyf6hlf7azgl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi John,
>
> Another factor that doesn't fit the zones neatly into zip codes is 
> altitude.  In my case I am 2.5 miles/4km straight line horizontally from 
> the official weather station, and 750'/230m higher in altitude.  My 
> rainfall is 50% more than the official measure, and I average almost 10F 
> cooler.  Here in the tropics, altitude has a much greater effect on 
> temperature among other things than on the U.S. mainland.  And we are both 
> in the same zip code.
>
> Gary in Hilo, HI, where it rains every day, and in the winter it rains all 
> day
> Zone 13/14 if there were such zones, 200"/500cm rain evenly spread 
> throughout the year
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:29:11 +0100
> From: "John Grimshaw" <johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Climate zones
> To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <006401c5dbed$de929e50$d9ab403e@home5fce999940>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> John Bryan asked about soil-warming cables in the open ground, which 
> always
> sounds like wonderful luxury. I have come across it only once, in the 
> garden
> at Waltham Place, a mile or so from where I write in Maidenhead west of
> London. The owners are the Oppenheimers, of De Beers fame, so they can
> afford it: just a shame they only grow hardy plants in those beds! (Canna 
> &
> Tradescantia pallida, both of which in recent years at least can be 
> regarded
> as hardy hereabouts.)
>
>
> John Grimshaw
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:14:26 -0700
> From: Susan Hayek <susanann@sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Climate Zones/'Cooling' at night
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <a06210202bf88258b0e92@[69.106.40.233]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
>>Even
>>tomatoes stop producing new fruits during the peak hottest summer
>>months in Austin--because the nights never cool down enough to let them
>>form. (They've bred a few special heat tolerant varieties that can do
>>it, and cherry tomatoes seem to already have that ability.) In
>>California, even in areas where the days are hotter in summer than in
>>Austin, the nights are still cooler and tomatoes fruit all summer long.
>
> **I'm confused on the tomato thing. My parents lived in the
> California Central Valley for years (from 1952 on), Bakersfied, Taft,
> Fresno and Kerman (south portions of the Central Valley). Days  can
> be well over 100F and nights may cool to 95-97F at 2 am. When I went
> over to help them I did the gardening after midnight.
>
> They always had the best tomatoes, the huge ones (and the best roses).
> So when we talk of nights 'cooling' how do we define 'cool'? Do we
> mean certain amount of degrees less than afternoon temps? Or do we
> mean a set temperature?
>
>
>
> s.
> -- 
> susan hayek, North Coast of CA, USA, zone 9b, Sunset zone 17.
> 15 miles south of Eureka, CA, with a peek of the ocean.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:19:07 -0700
> From: John Bryan <johnbryan@worldnet.att.net>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Climate zones
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <436279AB.A10330FF@worldnet.att.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2
>
> Dear John;
>
> Thanks for your e-mail. With solar panels I think such could be used for
> soil cables and save on electricity. Thus the installation would cost a
> little, but the sunlight is free! I am sure such will come to pass, if
> not already here, and be used to raise vegetables and fruit. Such is
> much used in California for various signs, and one sees them along the
> freeways all the time. There are also certain tax advantages in using
> sun panels as efforts re made to save fuels. Cheers, John E. Bryan
>
> John Grimshaw wrote:
>>
>> John Bryan asked about soil-warming cables in the open ground, which 
>> always
>> sounds like wonderful luxury. I have come across it only once, in the 
>> garden
>> at Waltham Place, a mile or so from where I write in Maidenhead west of
>> London. The owners are the Oppenheimers, of De Beers fame, so they can
>> afford it: just a shame they only grow hardy plants in those beds! (Canna 
>> &
>> Tradescantia pallida, both of which in recent years at least can be 
>> regarded
>> as hardy hereabouts.)
>>
>> John Grimshaw
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> pbs mailing list
>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
>> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:33:08 -0400
> From: Tony Avent <tony@plantdelights.com>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Climate zones
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20051028153308.00bd8280@66.39.59.108>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> John:
>
> Work on the new USDA map began on August 18, 2004. In 2003, a draft
> version was released by the American Horticulture Society which caused
> quite an uproar in the horticultural community. This revision would have
> done away with the "a" and "b" zone designations and would have been based
> on a fifteen year sample (1986-2001) of climatic data. By using a 15-year
> warm period sample, the draft map would have moved Chicago into zone 6 and
> made other such disastrous errors.
>
> Thanks to the support of Dr. Judy St. John of USDA-ARS, the map revision
> was put on hold until input from the stakeholders (government term for
> folks most affected by government decisions) could be gathered. The August
> 18 meeting included representatives from USDA- ARS, the American
> Horticulture Society, the American Association of Botanic Gardens and
> Arboreta, University Researchers, and representatives of the nursery
> industry.
>
> The project will consist of two phases. In Phase I, the map will be
> reconstructed using the most recent 30 years of average annual extreme
> minimum temperatures. The map will also retain the "a and b" designations.
> For the first time, the map will include a better breakdown of 
> coastal/lake
> effects, urban heat islands, wind patterns, and elevation differences. 
> Due
> to advances in interpolation algorithms, the map will pick up on small
> differences that were previously missed.  The map will be made available
> on-line where it can be searched both by city and zip code. The on-line 
> map
> will be clickable for more detailed climatic data to satisfy what the
> research scientists called, "those pointy-head weather nerd types."
>
> Phase II of the project will involve overlay maps for other factors such 
> as
> duration of cold, summer heat factors, and possibly air flow patterns. 
> It's
> not often that I get excited about a government project, but this will be 
> a
> huge improvement for our industry. Thanks both to the USDA-ARS for making
> their resources available and for all of the committee members for their
> time and input into the process.
> Tony Avent
> Plant Delights Nursery @
> Juniper Level Botanic Garden
> 9241 Sauls Road
> Raleigh, NC  27603  USA
> Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F
> Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F
> USDA Hardiness Zone 7b
> email tony@plantdelights.com
> website  http://www.plantdel.com/
> phone 919 772-4794
> fax  919 772-4752
> "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least
> three times" - Avent
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:11:32 EDT
> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Climate Zones
> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <1c1.3431a4c5.3093ee04@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Hey Gang,
>
> I sure enjoyed reading Lee's explanation of the USDA climate zones.
>
> Thanks Lee!
>
>
> Cordially,
>
> Conroe Joe
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:48:40 -0700
> From: Lee Poulsen <wpoulsen@pacbell.net>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Climate Zones/'Cooling' at night
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <a45b45b4a3b46ad4fd04e474421fc032@pacbell.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On Oct 28, 2005, at 12:14 PM, Susan Hayek wrote:
>
>>> Even
>>> tomatoes stop producing new fruits during the peak hottest summer
>>> months in Austin--because the nights never cool down enough to let
>>> them
>>> form. (They've bred a few special heat tolerant varieties that can do
>>> it, and cherry tomatoes seem to already have that ability.) In
>>> California, even in areas where the days are hotter in summer than in
>>> Austin, the nights are still cooler and tomatoes fruit all summer
>>> long.
>>
>> **I'm confused on the tomato thing. My parents lived in the
>> California Central Valley for years (from 1952 on), Bakersfied, Taft,
>> Fresno and Kerman (south portions of the Central Valley). Days  can
>> be well over 100F and nights may cool to 95-97F at 2 am. When I went
>> over to help them I did the gardening after midnight.
>>
>> They always had the best tomatoes, the huge ones (and the best roses).
>> So when we talk of nights 'cooling' how do we define 'cool'? Do we
>> mean certain amount of degrees less than afternoon temps? Or do we
>> mean a set temperature?
>>
>
> First off, I believe the night time low temperature point above which
> tomato fruits start having difficulty forming is around 70 or 71?F. If
> it doesn't regularly drop below that temperature for long periods of
> time, then no fruit form and 30 days later or however long it takes to
> ripen, there won't be any fruit to ripen. Here is a PDF file from
> Alabama that describes this facet of tomato growing and the new 'heat
> set' tomato varieties that have been developed.
> <http://aces.edu/department/com_veg/…>
>
> Here are the monthly average maximum and minimum temperatures for the
> warmest months of the year for Bakersfield and Fresno, and for the
> triangle of Dallas, San Antonio, and Houston (as well as Austin) in
> Texas, which covers a much larger area than the south Central Valley of
> California. Remember than each number is the average of approx. 30 low
> or high temperatures (for each day in a given month) times 30 years
> worth of data. I.e., each value is the average of about 900 individual
> high or low temperatures measured during that month of the year. So of
> course sometimes the low will be higher than this and sometimes the low
> will be lower than this value. So it gives you an idea of about what
> you can expect the low temperature will be on any given day of a given
> month in that locality.
>
> Looking at the California lows (especially in July and August) and
> comparing them with the Texas lows (for June, July, and August), even
> though I'm sure there are days in the summer in Bakersfield or Fresno
> where the low temperature didn't drop as low as the average, enough did
> that the average, even in Bakersfield, even in July, is still below the
> 70-71?F critical point. Another thing to keep in mind is that the
> summertime temperatures in Texas are remarkably consistent day after
> day year after year. They virtually never get any kind of cool front
> all summer long. Morning after morning for weeks on end, the
> temperature always drops to 72, 73, 74 or 75?F and no lower--not from
> some time in June until sometime in September does it get any lower.
>
> May   Jun   Jul   Aug   Sep   Oct
>
> Bakersfield, California
> 84.6  92.3  98.4  96.4  90.0  80.6
> 57.2  63.9  69.4  68.4  63.5  54.7
>
> Fresno, California
> 84.2  92.7  98.6  96.6  90.0  79.7
> 53.6  60.3  64.9  63.7  58.6  50.5
>
> ===============================================
>
> May   Jun   Jul   Aug   Sep   Oct
>
> Austin, Texas
> 84.6  91.0  95.0  95.4  90.5  82.0
> 66.4  71.4  73.8  73.8  69.8  59.9
>
> Dallas, Texas
> 82.8  91.8  96.4  96.1  87.8  78.4
> 62.6  70.0  73.9  73.6  66.7  55.8
>
> Houston, Texas
> 84.7  89.8  92.3  92.3  88.0  81.3
> 66.9  72.5  74.5  74.5  71.1  61.2
>
> San Antonio, Texas
> 85.3  91.8  95.0  95.2  89.2  81.7
> 65.7  72.5  74.8  74.5  69.1  58.6
>
>
> --Lee Poulsen
> Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 10a
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:48:45 -0700
> From: Lee Poulsen <wpoulsen@pacbell.net>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Climate zones
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <941d96d1aa64a0c972e0eed3ffe3c0e8@pacbell.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Wow, Tony. This is fantastic to hear about. I had my own little private
> "uproar" when I saw that initial AHS draft version.
>
> Thanks for representing all of us "silent majority" stakeholders that
> never get invited to any of these government meetings that affect us.
> (I'm thinking of the "importing small lots of seeds" rule-making
> meetings...)
>
> I can't wait till it comes out or online. Any idea of when the Phase I
> map will appear?
>
> It would be really nice if the EU, Australia, New Zealand, South
> Africa, Chile, Argentina, and China, for starters would submit their
> temperature data to this project as well. I've seen a zone map of China
> and of Australia that some people put together and a low resolution map
> of Europe that someone made. But it would be nice to have full-blown
> versions of these areas as well as of North America. And it would be
> very informative to see true Zone maps of southern South America, South
> Africa, and New Zealand as well.
>
> --Lee Poulsen
> Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 10a
>
> On Oct 28, 2005, at 12:33 PM, Tony Avent wrote:
>
>> John:
>>
>> Work on the new USDA map began on August 18, 2004. In 2003, a draft
>> version was released by the American Horticulture Society which caused
>> quite an uproar in the horticultural community. This revision would
>> have
>> done away with the "a" and "b" zone designations and would have been
>> based
>> on a fifteen year sample (1986-2001) of climatic data. By using a
>> 15-year
>> warm period sample, the draft map would have moved Chicago into zone 6
>> and
>> made other such disastrous errors.
>>
>> Thanks to the support of Dr. Judy St. John of USDA-ARS, the map
>> revision
>> was put on hold until input from the stakeholders (government term for
>> folks most affected by government decisions) could be gathered. The
>> August
>> 18 meeting included representatives from USDA- ARS, the American
>> Horticulture Society, the American Association of Botanic Gardens and
>> Arboreta, University Researchers, and representatives of the nursery
>> industry.
>>
>> The project will consist of two phases. In Phase I, the map will be
>> reconstructed using the most recent 30 years of average annual extreme
>> minimum temperatures. The map will also retain the "a and b"
>> designations.
>> For the first time, the map will include a better breakdown of
>> coastal/lake
>> effects, urban heat islands, wind patterns, and elevation differences.
>>  Due
>> to advances in interpolation algorithms, the map will pick up on small
>> differences that were previously missed.  The map will be made
>> available
>> on-line where it can be searched both by city and zip code. The
>> on-line map
>> will be clickable for more detailed climatic data to satisfy what the
>> research scientists called, "those pointy-head weather nerd types."
>>
>> Phase II of the project will involve overlay maps for other factors
>> such as
>> duration of cold, summer heat factors, and possibly air flow patterns.
>> It's
>> not often that I get excited about a government project, but this will
>> be a
>> huge improvement for our industry. Thanks both to the USDA-ARS for
>> making
>> their resources available and for all of the committee members for
>> their
>> time and input into the process.
>> Tony Avent
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:54:24 -0400
> From: Tony Avent <tony@plantdelights.com>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Climate zones
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20051028185424.015286a0@66.39.59.108>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Lee and Roy:
>
> Dr. Mark Widrlechner, who compiled the China hardiness map, is the
> chairman of the committee.  For years, I have kept files of everyones 
> posts
> about an ideal hardiness map.  These ideas have all been presented to the
> committee.  There is a lot of discussion about web customization
> possibilities.  It is hoped that the first map will be finished by years
> end, but projects such as this move slowly.  The next phase with all of 
> the
> overlays will be a much more long term project, but one that everyone
> agrees is quite important.  The USDA-ARS staff hase been wonderful in
> allowing their resouces to go to this project.  Perhaps once the map is
> complete, the UN might find this a useful project to complete worldwide
> maps.  I'll let everyone know when the maps are completed.
>
>
> At 02:48 PM 10/28/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>>Wow, Tony. This is fantastic to hear about. I had my own little private
>>"uproar" when I saw that initial AHS draft version.
>>
>>Thanks for representing all of us "silent majority" stakeholders that
>>never get invited to any of these government meetings that affect us.
>>(I'm thinking of the "importing small lots of seeds" rule-making
>>meetings...)
>
> Tony Avent
> Plant Delights Nursery @
> Juniper Level Botanic Garden
> 9241 Sauls Road
> Raleigh, NC  27603  USA
> Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F
> Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F
> USDA Hardiness Zone 7b
> email tony@plantdelights.com
> website  http://www.plantdel.com/
> phone 919 772-4794
> fax  919 772-4752
> "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least
> three times" - Avent
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:54:14 -0700
> From: "Rodger Whitlock" <totototo@telus.net>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Climate zones
> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID:
> <20051028225550.EHHV20262.priv-edmwes25.telusplanet.net@ray>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On 28 Oct 05 at 8:45, John Bryan wrote:
>
>> ...Roger Whitlock's remarks were also to the point, and I
>> liked his remarks about being precise and assuming nothing,
>> just how far are you Roger from the coast?
>
> Go down my driveway to the street, turn right, and within a
> mile you're at the saltchuck. A ten-minute bicycle ride -- but
> only going there, there's a steep downhill that you'd have to
> walk back up!
>
> That's yet another factor to take into account: altitude. The
> Sooke hills west of Victoria get snow regularly in winter down
> to, say, the 1000' level (iow on their crests); at the same
> time, here in Victoria proper it's only raining. I think we
> escape regular snowfalls by the skin of our teeth.
>
> Yet another (micro)climatic factor: topography. Those very same
> hills get up to around 2000' altitude or so and catch the
> winter precipitation; we are in a rain shadow, one reason we're
> so dry.
>
> And yet another: katabatics. How well does your property shed
> cold air? I keep telling one hort buddy here who lives on a
> west-facing hillside that he really ought to cut come drainage
> passages in the privet hedge at the bottom of his garden to let
> the cold air out. No, he doesn't, and he gets pooling of cold
> air and localized freezing in consequence. My former swamp is a
> low spot and the low parts of it are significantly frostier
> than the ever-so-slightly higher parts even though we're
> talking about less than half an acre, less than 300' distances.
>
> And then there are the imponderables. In 1988 I moved about two
> miles from a banana belt to a slightly higher, colder, wetter
> situation. I can't even begin to guess just what causes this
> difference, but I know when I drive home, the street is often
> dry until I'm about a quarter- or half-mile from home and then
> it's suddenly wet, the line of demarcation being amazingly
> sharp.
>
> And while I'm at it, let's not forget drainage. My backyard has
> standing water after heavy winter rains, but twenty feet away,
> right by the house, the perimeter drains keep the soil
> dry allowing Teucrium fruticans, Convolvulus cneorum, Punica
> granatum flore-pleno, Iris unguicularis, and Cytisus
> battandieri to all thrive. Iris cretensis thrives (more or
> less) raised just a foot above the squelch.
>
> For those of us on the left coast, the Sunset climatic zones
> are far preferable to USDA hardiness zones, taking into account
> as they do a great many more factors than just winter low
> temperatures.
>
>
>> ...Jim Shields remark regarding the temperature being lower
>> in the country, than in the town was quite thought provoking.
>> It made me wonder if being close to a major thoroughfare also
>> had an influence.
>
> The heat island effect, very well known.
>
>
>> I do think the climate is warming, but surely this has been
>> going on for many years. Way back when the Thames river (
>> Roger I refer to the Thames in London, England, comprising
>> parts of the counties of Kent, Middlesex, Essex and Surrey and
>> a few others) used to freeze over and people walked across the
>> Thames, this in the 17th ad 18th centuries. The ice was
>> several feet thick.
>
> Hee-hee. You will be relieved to hear that there is also a
> Thames in Ontario, though it's a much smaller stream, so your
> specificity is not entirely out of place.
>
> And I wouldn't be surprised if there are Thameses in NZ, Oz,
> and SA.
>
> [Eeeek: he abbreviated! Sinner!]
>
>
> In summary: What this business of climate adds up to is a very
> complex multi-factorial effect. That's why Sunset's system,
> which is based on the observed performance of benchmark
> plants, is so superior, even if it means our hypothetical
> friend Joe Sixpack has to struggle to read a map and actually
> pay some attention to his surroundings. Benchmarking doesn't
> just mean hardiness, btw. It includes such factors as "What
> bears fruit in this location? Apples? Lemons? Oranges?
> Citrons?" (That last being the most tender citrus).
>
> Back to blubs: a local hardware store surprised me with
> packages of Iris 'Katherine Hodgkin', Ipheion 'Rolf Fiedler',
> and a white Ipheion. Amazing.
>
> -- 
> Rodger Whitlock
> Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
> Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate
>
> on beautiful Vancouver Island
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 10:08:49 +1100
> From: Robert Hamilton <roberth6@mac.com>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] Eulophias
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <75093ac958f9d79fc820fb5b87b2c755@mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Hi  Bonaventure  and  Jim,
>
> What  medium do you use  for  growing Eulophia  ?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rob in Tasmania
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
> End of pbs Digest, Vol 33, Issue 32
> ***********************************
> 



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