From dells@voicenet.com Sun Jan 1 08:26:07 2006 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Update on Pacific BX 112 Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 08:26:23 -0500 All of the Chilean seed from Osmani Baullosa has been claimed. Most of the other items are still available. Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun Jan 1 12:04:50 2006 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Update on Pacific BX 112 Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 17:04:49 +0000 >From: Dell Sherk >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: , ,, >,, >,, >Subject: [pbs] Update on Pacific BX 112 >Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 08:26:23 -0500 > >All of the Chilean seed from Osmani Baullosa has been claimed. Most of the >other items are still available. > >Best wishes, >Dell Dear all: A Happy 2006 for all! Please note that those in BX 112 and many more are available from Osmani. True Chilean seed is so difficult to obtain. Good growing Alberto in the now rather dry pampas _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.latam.msn.com/ From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sun Jan 1 13:23:46 2006 Message-Id: <1fd.fc78063.30e9782f@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: geophyte predators Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 13:23:43 EST Hi Gang, I have the luxury of living adjacent to a forest and a meadow that is rich with animals. For now, the squirrels are kept in check by rat snakes, water moccasins, and a few other snakes. The moles are pretty durable, especially in my sandy soil, I have no idea if they eat bulbs or insects, but so far they have not harmed any plants. Additionally, I grow many bulbs in tubs and so out of reach from the moles. This part of Texas (in fact, much of the Southeast USA) is plagued by feral pigs. They can tear up a lawn and garden overnight as they hunt for tasty roots, mushrooms and (I think) even moles. So far they have not visited my immediate area. If they do there is a thriving business in catch 'em alive pig traps. Cordially, Conroe Joe 80 F today, humid but will be sunny Darlow's Enigma Rose is blooming well on this first day of the year From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sun Jan 1 13:27:16 2006 Message-Id: <268.3606aa4.30e978fd@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: bulbs blooming in winter Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 13:27:09 EST Hi Gang, I visited some friends in Houston yesterday, they have not had a frost this winter, except for a bit of frost that accumulated on car roofs one night. I was happy to see C. agustum in bloom and bud on December 31. It was 80 F. Crinum agustum is a splendid winter bloomer if there is no frost. Here, in Conroe, 50 miles north where I saw C. augustum in bloom, all my Crinum (except C. bulbisperumum) have lost their leaves due to frosts. Cordially, Conroe Joe From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sun Jan 1 13:29:36 2006 Message-Id: <258.4848056.30e9798b@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Free Lycoris Bulbs Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 13:29:31 EST Hi Gang, I have received 5 stamps in the mail and have packed up bulbs to send out. The bulbs are still firm but do need to be planted soon. I'm sure other stamps are in the mail this long holiday weekend and will arrive in the next few days. If you didn't get a stamp in the mail there is still time and I have set aside bulbs for all who wrote. I still have a few left if you want them, Lycoris radiata. Cordially, Conroe Joe From irisman@ameritech.net Sun Jan 1 14:24:38 2006 Message-Id: <000a01c60f08$ae0b77e0$5ad8fea9@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Further-- on predator urine repellents for small mammals. Source Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 13:22:17 -0600 The old-time Shumway's garden catalog I got the other day-- lists coyote, fox, and bobcat urine @ $13.75/ 8 oz. together with 30-day dispensers @ $1.60 ea. I have not checked to see if Cabela or an outdoor outfitter might have different prices and quantities. Shumway has been in business in the midwest since the middle 1800s. If they say something works...it likely does. Their catalog on line is at www.rhshumway.com the urines are listed under the heading of GARDEN SUPPLIES, then under PEST CONTROL , and then under REPELLENTS. They also suggest using ricinus (castor bean plants) interplanted with your favorites to discourage moles, etc. Personally, I'd put a drop or two about every 15-20 square feet in a garden bed to see how it worked. And, I'd try coyote and fox urine before that of other predators, just because our current population of bobcats nationwide is so scarce that most voles, moles, mice and squirrels are not likely to have learned about them. Also, coyotes and foxes have been predators of most small animals for a few thousand years, now, and the information about avoiding them is likely to be hard-wired into their brains. I think that any successes would be worth reporting on. I also note that squirrels and chipmunks here, only dig up my newly-planted crocus bulbs before they've gotten roots--when they still smell like stored starch and don't have their other chemistry established as a result of growing. Regards to all and happy new year. Adam Fikso in Glenview-- Further Zone 5a (Chicago area) From bklehm@comcast.net Sun Jan 1 16:45:43 2006 Message-Id: <0c0ab5a9ca2f715ddaf80cf22e8092cb@comcast.net> From: Brook Klehm Subject: Hello Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 13:45:35 -0800 Alberto, Rafa Díez, How does one germinate Neomarica caerulea seed? I have never tried after some knowledgeable friends failed year after year. They (and I) have succeeded with planting the foliage fans on the flower scapes, but never germinating seed. Thank you, Brook Klehm On Jan 5, 2006, at 10:29 AM, Rafa Díez Domínguez wrote: > Me germinó la Neomaria coerulea de M. Peixoto From putman@pobox.upenn.edu Sun Jan 1 18:04:23 2006 Message-Id: <43B85FEA.9090102@pobox.upenn.edu> From: Stephen Putman Subject: Further-- on predator urine repellents for small mammals. Source Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:04:10 -0500 How do you think they get the coyotes, foxes, and bobcats to urinate into the little bottles? Happy New Year. Steve Putman Adam Fikso wrote: > The old-time Shumway's garden catalog I got the other day-- lists coyote, > fox, and bobcat urine @ $13.75/ 8 oz. together with 30-day dispensers @ > $1.60 ea. I have not checked to see if Cabela or an outdoor outfitter might > have different prices and quantities. Shumway has been in business in the > midwest since the middle 1800s. If they say something works...it likely > does. Their catalog on line is at www.rhshumway.com the urines are > listed under the heading of GARDEN SUPPLIES, then under PEST CONTROL , and > then under REPELLENTS. > > They also suggest using ricinus (castor bean plants) interplanted with your > favorites to discourage moles, etc. > > Personally, I'd put a drop or two about every 15-20 square feet in a garden > bed to see how it worked. And, I'd try coyote and fox urine before that > of other predators, just because our current population of bobcats > nationwide is so scarce that most voles, moles, mice and squirrels are not > likely to have learned about them. > > Also, coyotes and foxes have been predators of most small animals for a few > thousand years, now, and the information about avoiding them is likely to be > hard-wired into their brains. I think that any successes would be worth > reporting on. I also note that squirrels and chipmunks here, only dig up > my newly-planted crocus bulbs before they've gotten roots--when they still > smell like stored starch and don't have their other chemistry established as > a result of growing. > > Regards to all and happy new year. Adam Fikso in Glenview-- Further > Zone 5a (Chicago area) > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From doji@hawaii.rr.com Sun Jan 1 18:47:37 2006 Message-Id: <000801c60f2d$bbe1a4f0$370ffea9@aeiyf6hlf7azgl> From: "Gary" Subject: Further-- on predator urine repellents for small mammals. Source Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 13:47:31 -1000 Happy New Year and good growing. > How do you think they get the coyotes, foxes, and bobcats to urinate > into the little bottles? With very small funnels. Volunteer funnel holders are always in great demand; especially if they still have all of their fingers! Gary in Hilo, HI, looking for snakes to take their picture. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Jan 1 18:53:46 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20060101154709.010d9ff8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Wilford book on tulips Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 15:53:40 -0800 I have just received a review copy of "Tulips: Species and hybrids for the gardener" by Richard Wilford (Timber Press, 2006; ISBN 978-0-88192-763-4; $34.95). I'm only up to the species descriptions, which are the heart of the book (there is only one chapter on garden hybrids), and I'm very glad indeed that Wilford has written this book. It was sorely needed. I'm sure most PBS members will want a copy. (You can get Timber press books at a discount if you are a NARGS member and order them through the Book Service, by the way.) Wilford states clearly that this is NOT a taxonomic treatment of the genus and takes time to explain points on which authorities disagree, and to discuss the general difficulties of classifying wild tulips. However, his species descriptions are based on both a thorough knowledge of the literature and first-hand experience with the plants, both in the wild and at Kew, where he has recently taken up the management of the bulb collection on the retirement of Tony Hall. I had the pleasure of seeing Kew's tulip collection in flower last spring and listening in as Hall, Wilford, and Brian Mathew discussed some of the unusual forms that had cropped up. I'm sure the collection will go from strength to strength under Wilford's care. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Mon Jan 2 11:48:17 2006 Message-Id: <004101c60fbc$52047550$aec679a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Giving thanks Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 08:48:11 -0800 The New Year in the Ferndale valley where I live in northern California was an exciting one. We have been experiencing a series of very severe storms in California, and the Eel River and most of the valley flooded during these storms, with Humboldt County declaring a state of emergency. Susan Hayek has some very dramatic photographs of the flooding, since she lives on the hill looking down on the valley, well out of the way of the floods, but fully exposed to the gale force winds that accompanied the storms. The village of Ferndale was completely cut off from the outside world, and we were without electricity for two days. The flooding on my property was not severe, although the surrounding roads were mostly impassable. We experienced winds up to 86mph, which caused quite a lot of damage to my roof and the few trees I have been planting on the windswept plain. My computer was on (by mistake - I had left it on when I went outside to secure things) when a big gust hit, and I have just spent several hours trying to get it to work, when by some magic it seems to have sorted itself out. The house I live in is all electric, but fortunately I also have the house next door that has a wood stove, so my pets and I moved next door, otherwise we would have had no heat for two days. The horses had been evacuated several days before. So here are the things I am giving thanks for this New Year: My new Agratech greenhouses, which weathered the storm just fine. The city of Ferndale who made me (with much complaining on my part) have them engineered to 100mph winds - they were right! My friend Susan Hayek, who has documented this winter drama photographically, and who came over and rescued my food in the freezer (not much of that, since I am single!) Having a wood stove and firewood. My pets who snuggled and kept me warm. The computer genie that decided I had suffered enough, and fixed my computer. And all those wonderful bulbs, still safe and secure in the greenhouses. This was a close call - I almost lost my business. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs From marie-paule.opdenakker@pandora.be Mon Jan 2 14:22:12 2006 Message-Id: <000e01c60fd1$c9cee9c0$360e5351@kieken> From: "Marie-Paule" Subject: flooded Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 20:21:53 +0100 Hello Diana, In Belgium it was on the tv, the flooding and the fire's.I thougt without delay of the friends of the pbs, perhaps lived there.We cannot complain in Belgium.I hope that 2006 become for You and Yours a successful year.And that we get lots of good news e-mails from You-Your pets and ofcours the bulbs. Wish You All the best, Marie-Paule From roberth6@mac.com Mon Jan 2 18:59:25 2006 Message-Id: From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Neomarica germination Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 10:59:34 +1100 Hi Brook, > How does one germinate Neomarica caerulea seed? I have just had some germinate in my glasshouse which was sown 8 months ago and watered regularly over the whole time. The glasshouse minimum is 6C. Cheers, Rob in Tasmania Zone 9 equivalent. From dkramb@badbear.com Mon Jan 2 19:40:10 2006 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20060102193659.01a92608@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Rigidella (aka: Tigridia) orthantha Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 19:40:14 -0500 I tried this plant a couple years ago from Collectors Nursery, but it died after 2 years without blooming. I would like to try it again, but it's no longer available. (If memory serves, the original owners sold the business a couple years ago.) Do any PBS members grow it? Please contact me off-list if you have any plants/seeds for sale/trade. Dennis in Cincinnati From robertwerra@pacific.net Mon Jan 2 20:18:45 2006 Message-Id: <001501c61003$a2e598e0$9ca00c45@popbob> From: robertwerra@pacific.net Subject: bulbs blooming in winter-Gladiolus Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 17:18:42 -0800 Dear All, After a month, my glistenig snowball-Nerine undulatus alba has finally "melted." It is replaced by my most prior spring gladiolus -the scarlet Gladiolus priorii. Apropos, The garden magazine, "Horticulture" Feb. issue features an article by So. African botanist John Manning on species gladioli including growing tips and bulb sources including our Diana Chapman's Telos Rare Bulbs. If anyone wants the article I will copy and send by reg. mail. I find these more difficult but I'm a haphazard gardener. When one blooms, it is a real treat. Yours in winter rainfall flooded No. Calif. Bob Werra From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Jan 2 20:22:50 2006 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Rigidella (aka: Tigridia) orthantha Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 17:22:48 -0800 It is offered in the NARGS (North American Rock Garden Society) seedlist which is arriving this week in members' mailboxes. Diane Whitehead who put it on her first choice list From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Jan 2 20:42:50 2006 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Rigidella (aka: Tigridia) orthantha Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 17:42:47 -0800 The seeds available from NARGS this year were donated by a member in Tasmania, who also donated them last year. I've checked back a few years in a couple of seed exchanges. Prior to last year, none were offered. None also from other lists I looked at. I didn't dig out my old SIGNA lists, which might offer it. Either it is not grown by many people or doesn't set seed. It is odd that seeds are offered in club exchanges that have been wild-collected in many places that would seem much more difficult to get to than Mexico, including some from Chile and Mt. Kinabalu this year, but I do not recall any from Mexico, and I have participated in seed exchanges for a very long time. -- Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8 cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually) sandy soil From susanann@sbcglobal.net Mon Jan 2 22:32:16 2006 Message-Id: From: Susan Hayek Subject: Giving thanks/flooding Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 19:33:38 -0800 Diana wrote: >The New Year in the Ferndale valley where I live in northern California was >an exciting one. We have been experiencing a series of very severe storms >in California, and the Eel River and most of the valley flooded during these >storms, with Humboldt County declaring a state of emergency. Susan Hayek has some very dramatic photographs of the flooding, since she lives on the I do have dramatic photos. Anyone interested in pictures of our local flooding, I've put up some on my website. Remember, our river is usually a little ribbon winding its way out to sea. We live on the east side of the river, just a property and freeway away, Diana lives on the west side. And...the pictures you are seeing on tv of the NorCal flooding is probably the Bay Area (SF) or Napa in wine country, slightly north. We are 5 hours north of SF. We are located in an area known as the Lost Coast (behind the Redwood Curtain); we don't make the news, usually. Diana's hometown is marked by the yellow arrow. http://www.humboldt1.com/mydog/Flooding103.jpg My grandson, Noah, looking at his hometown, which is also Diana's, from our house across the valley. At this time his town was unaccessible, roads flooded on all sides. My daughter has the children 3 1/2 days week and luckily she picked them up before the surrounding valley flooded. http://www.humboldt1.com/mydog/NoahAlone150.jpg The bridge into Ferndale was built in 1911 and one of two concrete bridges like this in the world. The west side of the bridge as it enters the valley was flooded, so no cars were allowed to use the bridge. http://www.humboldt1.com/mydog/Fernbridge143.jpg http://www.humboldt1.com/mydog/Flooding104ADJ.jpg http://www.humboldt1.com/mydog/Flooding112ADJ.jpg http://www.humboldt1.com/mydog/FloodingJasperRun114.jpg http://www.humboldt1.com/mydog/Looking139FW.jpg It's too bad something so destructive can be so beautiful. You are looking at Diana's town, Ferndale, before we all lost power. A lot of the lights at the middle of the Valley are dairy barns. They stayed on even during our power outage. The cows have to be milked. http://www.humboldt1.com/mydog/HorsesAgainstWater129.jpg Can you find the Ferndale town Christmas tree? http://www.humboldt1.com/mydog/Flooding124.jpg Sun on flood waters makes for good lighting for photos. http://www.humboldt1.com/mydog/JasperQuizHorse89.jpg http://www.humboldt1.com/mydog/JonesSchubertHorse94.100k.jpg s. -- susan, who is..... owned by Jasper & Schubert the Standard Poodles, Gracie the Rhodesian, Pup-Quiz the Basenji and their Basenji brother, Jones.... on the North Coast of CA, USA susanann@sbcglobal.net, copyright 2005 From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Tue Jan 3 01:48:44 2006 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Rigidella (aka: Tigridia) orthantha Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 22:48:41 -0800 On Jan 2, 2006, at 4:40 PM, Dennis Kramb wrote: > I tried this plant a couple years ago from Collectors Nursery, but > it died > after 2 years without blooming. I would like to try it again, but > it's no > longer available. (If memory serves, the original owners sold the > business > a couple years ago.) Do any PBS members grow it? Please contact me > off-list if you have any plants/seeds for sale/trade. > I also purchased this bulb from Collectors Nursery 2 years ago (now closer to 3), and it never sprouted that year nor the year after. I checked at the end of each year, and the bulb was still there and still seemed just fine, so I kept replanting it and leaving the pot to try again. This year it finally sprouted, late, but sent up a couple of leaves. No bloom. It's still in leaf, so it should have been able to grow or store some additional food this year. Maybe this next growing season it will finally bloom? I also received some seeds of it this year, and those have sprouted and are still in leaf. (We haven't had any good frosts yet this winter. Although we're finally getting a decent amount of that rain they've been getting up north; just in time to fall on the Rose Parade in town for the first time in 50+ years.) --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA, USDA Zone 10a From DaveKarn@aol.com Tue Jan 3 08:44:22 2006 Message-Id: <255.42326e8.30ebd9b3@aol.com> From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: REPLY2: Moles and other Geophyte predators Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 08:44:19 EST In a message dated 12/30/2005 3:39:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, eob@peak.org writes: Ernie ~ Well, Dave, I hate to throw cold water on the statement that moles are only carnivorous, but research has proven otherwise, right here in Oregon. An excellent book on the subject of moles is: _Of Moles and Men: The Battle for the Turf_ by Patrick H. Thompson. Looks like obtaining and reading of this book will rank in the first five of my objectives for 2006! Interesting that this "ossified" description/understanding of moles (i.e., exclusively(?) insectivorous) is rather more widespread than realized, e.g., Webster defines Mole as an "insectivorous burrowing mammal." As for throwing cold water (on statements, or otherwise!!), I spend the winters at home in Northern California where we have been getting cold water from the skies in near record amounts -- towns (Healdsburg, Guerneville) along the Russian River (the appellation where some of the world's best pinot noir is produced) are under as much as 45' of flood waters (Guerneville). Much of the Napa Valley is flooded, as well. In this area, we have received nearly two feet of rain this year, twice the normal amount -- and Winter is really just getting started! I would imagine the local moles are using SCUBA to wait it out . . . "The Townsend's Mole eats tulips, tigridias, bulbous irises . . . and these often form substantial portions of its fare. Under field conditions, Moore documented the avidity of moles for tigridias. . . . In a study of commercial tigridia planting near Smith River CA, Moore found that 600 bulbs were consumed during a 10-day period. After two [!!! my comment] Townsend's Moles were trapped in the plots, no further damage to the remaining bulbs occurred. The two trapped animals contained 100 and 94% bulbs in their stomachs." Loosely using the term "bulbs" in this thread, I feel, is misleading. The cited research seems to indicate that corms and some "bulbs" (tulips) do form a minor to major portion of this animal's diet. While I was just as guilty in loosely using the term, my knowledge base is really tunicate bulbs, in particular, Narcissus and Hyacinthus. I would certainly be the first to admit that I know nothing about most of the plant material being discussed in this forum. Growing several hundred thousand daffodils on several acres, I have dug the occasional bulb that showed telltale incisor indentations indicating a gopher had sampled the bulb and, apparently, just as quickly backed off when the animal found it to be unpalatable. That is not to say I haven't lost bulbs because of gophers, I have. When, in their tunneling, they encounter a daffodil bulb, it is either moved out of the way into the spoil mound or transferred somewhere else in the tunnel complex from which it is unable to grow. Moles, on the other hand, are the scourge of a daffodil grower! Not because they consume the bulbs but because their tunneling causes major problems. If tunneling occurs beneath the bulb, the roots are knocked off (a daffodil will grow only one set of roots each annual cycle); if above the bulb, the leaves expand into the tunnel and are unable to photosynthesize. In either case, the life of the bulb is seriously compromised. I have often dug bulbs later than I should have and had to remove the layer of soil over the row of bulbs (when the leaves are gone) to locate them before actually digging them. Thus, the tunneling of moles becomes readily apparent. When the tunneling animal encountered a daffodil bulb, it went around or, occasionally, dug and discarded the (smaller) obstruction into the spoil mound. I have never found damage to a bulb that could be attributed to consumption by a mole. If we were discussing slugs, on the other hand, I'd have some really interesting tales of damage to daffodil bulbs!! The name "narcissus" descends from the Greek word narkissos meaning (broadly) sleep-inducing. Narcissus bulbs contain an oxalate, the crystals of which are needle shaped (raphides). When ingested, these crystals are released and lodge in the mucous membranes lining the mouth and esophagus causing the tissue to swell. Diffenbachia sp. also contain this compound. "Dumb cane" is a colloquial term used for this plant. It has to do with an inability to speak and not, necessarily, to the relative smarts of the person ingesting the plant!! When chewed on by the unsuspecting (most frequently children under five years), swelling of the mucous membranes is so great as to prevent speech (hence, "dumb"). In the worst case, swelling could close off the airway causing death. Oddly, the compound does not seem to be present in all tunicate bulbs, however, even Amaryllidaceae. I also breed and grow Hyacinthus hybrids and have found on several occasions where a gopher had gotten (unnoticed) into the planting and devoured bulbs without suffering any ill effect (consumption of so great a quantity had to occur over a significant amount of time) . Dave Karnstedt Silverton, OR (Mar-Nov) Windsor, CA (Dec-Feb) From piabinha@yahoo.com Tue Jan 3 13:00:36 2006 Message-Id: <20060103180034.73580.qmail@web51907.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: dumbcane (was: Moles and other Geophyte predators) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 10:00:34 -0800 (PST) > The name "narcissus" descends from the Greek word > narkissos meaning (broadly) > sleep-inducing. Narcissus bulbs contain an oxalate, > the crystals of which > are needle shaped (raphides). When ingested, these > crystals are released and > lodge in the mucous membranes lining the mouth and > esophagus causing the tissue > to swell. Diffenbachia sp. also contain this > compound. "Dumb cane" is a > colloquial term used for this plant. It has to do > with an inability to speak and > not, necessarily, to the relative smarts of the > person ingesting the plant!! > When chewed on by the unsuspecting (most frequently > children under five > years), swelling of the mucous membranes is so great > as to prevent speech (hence, > "dumb"). In the worst case, swelling could close > off the airway causing death. dave, i believe the origin of the term dumbcane was not that children or anyone else would unwittingly chew on this plant, but that it was used as a punishment for escaped slaves in the caribbean (to have the cut stems rubbed inside their mouths and thus they would not be able to speak for several days). ========= tsuh yang __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com From Blee811@aol.com Tue Jan 3 13:05:19 2006 Message-Id: From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: Moles Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:05:12 EST The bulb-eating habits of Townsend's moles is interesting to read about. That is not the mole we have in the midwest, however. I wonder if this habit is peculiar to the Townsend's mole. I have one daffodil bed that somehow some mint escaped into. It was a well-cultivated bed and the mint started to run. It is the only bed I have not noticed mole runs in. I wonder if they just haven't discovered it yet, or if mint is a deterrent? Bill Lee Cincinnati From dells@voicenet.com Tue Jan 3 16:03:26 2006 Message-Id: <20060103210326.A2C204C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: OT dumbcane (was: Moles and other Geophyte predators) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 16:03:32 -0500 How is the mythological character, Narcissus, related to sleep-inducement, then? -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of piaba Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 1:01 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] dumbcane (was: Moles and other Geophyte predators) > The name "narcissus" descends from the Greek word > narkissos meaning (broadly) > sleep-inducing. Narcissus bulbs contain an oxalate, > the crystals of which > are needle shaped (raphides). When ingested, these > crystals are released and > lodge in the mucous membranes lining the mouth and > esophagus causing the tissue > to swell. Diffenbachia sp. also contain this > compound. "Dumb cane" is a > colloquial term used for this plant. It has to do > with an inability to speak and > not, necessarily, to the relative smarts of the > person ingesting the plant!! > When chewed on by the unsuspecting (most frequently > children under five > years), swelling of the mucous membranes is so great > as to prevent speech (hence, > "dumb"). In the worst case, swelling could close > off the airway causing death. dave, i believe the origin of the term dumbcane was not that children or anyone else would unwittingly chew on this plant, but that it was used as a punishment for escaped slaves in the caribbean (to have the cut stems rubbed inside their mouths and thus they would not be able to speak for several days). ========= tsuh yang __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL - Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Jan 3 17:02:08 2006 Message-Id: <43BAF45D.9080308@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: OT dumbcane Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:02:05 -0500 Dell: I think the legend goes that Narcissus was so taken by his beauty that when he leaned over a pond he was hypnotized by his image that he fell in and drown. So the root 'narco' can be found in many words like narcolepsy, narcotic etc. Okay Jim your turn. Arnold From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Tue Jan 3 17:12:14 2006 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: dumbcane (was: Moles and other Geophyte predators) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 22:12:13 +0000 >dave, i believe the origin of the term dumbcane was >not that children or anyone else would unwittingly >chew on this plant, but that it was used as a >punishment for escaped slaves in the caribbean (to >have the cut stems rubbed inside their mouths and thus >they would not be able to speak for several days). > >========= >tsuh yang Hi Tsuh: It is actually the "dumbman's cane". The oxalate crystals are present in Spatiphyllum, Arum, Zantedeschia, Anthurium, Philodendron, Dracontium and any aroid you can think of, when raw. That practice was common in Brazil as well. A piece of stem was placed horizontally in the slave's mouth and then forced to bite it. Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.latam.msn.com/ From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 3 17:27:37 2006 Message-Id: <259F186A.A242E745@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: OT dumbcane (was: Moles and other Geophyte predators) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 22:27:37 -0000 Dear Dell: In mythology, a beautiful youth (obvious a member of the PBS) for unrequited love of whom Echo died, was punished by Nemesis, who caused him to pine away for love of his own reflection in a spring and changed him into a narcissus. Species unknown! Thus the association. Cheers, John E. Bryan Dell Sherk wrote: > > How is the mythological character, Narcissus, related to sleep-inducement, > then? > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of piaba > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 1:01 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: [pbs] dumbcane (was: Moles and other Geophyte predators) > > > The name "narcissus" descends from the Greek word > > narkissos meaning (broadly) > > sleep-inducing. Narcissus bulbs contain an oxalate, > > the crystals of which > > are needle shaped (raphides). When ingested, these > > crystals are released and > > lodge in the mucous membranes lining the mouth and > > esophagus causing the tissue > > to swell. Diffenbachia sp. also contain this > > compound. "Dumb cane" is a > > colloquial term used for this plant. It has to do > > with an inability to speak and > > not, necessarily, to the relative smarts of the > > person ingesting the plant!! > > When chewed on by the unsuspecting (most frequently > > children under five > > years), swelling of the mucous membranes is so great > > as to prevent speech (hence, > > "dumb"). In the worst case, swelling could close > > off the airway causing death. > > dave, i believe the origin of the term dumbcane was > not that children or anyone else would unwittingly > chew on this plant, but that it was used as a > punishment for escaped slaves in the caribbean (to > have the cut stems rubbed inside their mouths and thus > they would not be able to speak for several days). > > ========= > tsuh yang > > > __________________________________________ > Yahoo! DSL - Something to write home about. > Just $16.99/mo. or less. > dsl.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ConroeJoe@aol.com Tue Jan 3 20:26:35 2006 Message-Id: From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: green-white Crinum Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 20:26:31 EST Hi Gang, There are some very attractive white-flowered Crinum that I have seen. There are not too many white C. bulbispermum but I have seen an attractive plant called C. bulbispermum 'Album' (or 'Alba'). Marcelle has worked with the Jumbo hybrids for a number of years and produced some really pretty flowers, but one of the most interesting are some she calls green-white Jumbos. Some are prettier than others. One of the best so far has long trumpet-shaped blooms of pure white but with nice green keels. Of course they look like Crinum, and not Easter lilies, but I'm reminded of Easter lilies by the green-white types. I've put up a photo of one that has no name; Marcelle calls it "best green-white" or "green-white No. 1." LINK: Crinum bulbispermum, green-white http://www.crinum.iconx.com/html/crinum-hybrids-marcelle/crinum-bulbispermum-white-green-jumbo.html Cordially, Conroe Joe (Still unseasonably warm here, my January-blooming Nerine sarniensis hybrid is happy but would prefer cooler nights). From osmani_baullosa@yahoo.com Wed Jan 4 11:15:02 2006 Message-Id: <20060104161501.14352.qmail@web30511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Osmani Baullosa Subject: CHILEAN SEEDS - NOT ONLY available from PACIFIC BX Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 08:15:01 -0800 (PST) Hello all, Several people from PBS forum have written to me after the last Pacific BX, asking if there is any source for the seeds I have donated. Well, I grow many of these species. If, after visiting my site: http://botanicalgems.blogspot.com/ you feel interested into receiving my CURRENT LIST OF AVAILABLE SEEDS, please write to me privately and I will send it to you. Thanks and Regards, Osmani Baullosa Dell Sherk wrote: All of the Chilean seed from Osmani Baullosa has been claimed. Most of the other items are still available. Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Wed Jan 4 12:17:08 2006 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: CHILEAN SEEDS - NOT ONLY available from PACIFIC BX Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 17:17:07 +0000 Hi Osmani: Here in the pampas of Argentina and Uruguay we have 1,300 mm of year round rainfall. Alarmingly the weather is hotter than ever now and we are through an unusually long period of drought. As a result, South American irids have flowered poorly and set little seed. Our normal humidity is 75% or over and during this long drought, lasting for many months, it is about 35%. These drastic changes willbe affecting wild plants to an unexpected extent. If in these moist parts of the world we are experiencing such drastic changes I have been wondering how things fare in Chile, that has seasonal rains and dry conditions over most of the country. Can you tell us what you have found this season in the wild while collecting seed for your catalogue? Thanks in advance Alberto in the pampas that are becoming the Kirghiz steppe _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.latam.msn.com/ From arnold@nj.rr.com Wed Jan 4 15:00:32 2006 Message-Id: <43BC285C.4070601@nj.rr.com> From: arnold trachtenberg Subject: rain fall Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 14:56:12 -0500 Alberto: You mention of rain and changing patterns of rain fall has reminded me of a question I have had thought about for a number of years. Does the amount of rain fall upon the earth remain constant each year. So if Argentina is getting less does that mean it is falling someplace else like California. Arnold From osmani_baullosa@yahoo.com Wed Jan 4 15:50:03 2006 Message-Id: <20060104205002.37207.qmail@web30509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Osmani Baullosa Subject: A CHILEAN BULB ON BOOKS / CHILEAN SEEDS - NOT ONLY available from PACIFIC BX and a Chilen Bulbs Book Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:50:02 -0800 (PST) ... If in these moist parts of the world we are experiencing such drastic changes I have been wondering how things fare in Chile, that has seasonal rains and dry conditions over most of the country. Can you tell us what you have found this season in the wild while collecting seed for your catalogue? Thanks in advance Alberto Dear Alberto and all: Perhaps the next Book about Chilean Bulbs that you read, it could be the one I’m preparing some years ago (Title suggestions are welcome). “Oh yes, I’m a great pretender…” You say well, Alberto. This has been a very dry year in Chile as well. Fortunately, I have collected seeds during the previous years, in order to grow the plants at home; and, at home, most of these species become reliable bloomers and seeders. And surprisingly for me, urban insects pollinate them well. So, the seeds, including those I have donated to Pacific BX, are the freshest you can find, well, if… you find them from any other source in this planet. Unfortunately they are just a few seeds. Since I need funds to grow the plants (more than 50 Chilean native species), every season I sell some seeds. Also, I gradually get rid of other plants in my garden, because my natives are really running out of space. It’s a contradictory feeling. I would prefer to sow -or exchanging-, instead of selling them. Every year I try to travel to the natural habitats (sometimes more than 1.000 km. away from where I live) of those plants I have still not photographed, so the pictures can look “natural". As I don't previosly know the exact spots where they grow, I lose time and money. The first years I had to make at least two trips, one to take the pictures and the other to take some seeds with me. Several times it happened that when I returned for seeds, found a new highway, or a condo, or a vineyard that had been widened or raised. Or some cattle dung as the only remaining thing. All of you surely know what I'm talking about. I would not publish a book with pictures that also show pots, either agapanthus and crocosmias growing around the pots. That's OK fot the pictures that you have been enjoying in my Internet site (http://botanicalgems.blogspot.com/), but not for a book. In general, I would say that the plants most affected by the drought this year were the Northernmost Alstroemerias, several Placea species, and some Leucocoryne species… As you know, approx. one third of this country is a desert (that profusely blooms each 5-7 years), another third has a Mediterranean climate and the other third is colder and more humid. In the extreme southern part, you find Antarctica. Regards to all, Osmani --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Jan 4 16:56:04 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20060104135355.01106fa8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: rain fall Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 13:55:48 -0800 Arnold asked, "Does the amount of rain fall upon the earth remain constant each year." No; the amount of water taken into the atmosphere and then returned to the surface as precipitation varies from year to year depending on various factors, notably air and sea temperatures. Jane McGary From arnold@nj.rr.com Wed Jan 4 17:00:27 2006 Message-Id: <43BC4476.3040508@nj.rr.com> From: arnold trachtenberg Subject: rain fall Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:56:06 -0500 Jane: So can this contribute to "greenhouse effect" by increasing the water vapor in the atmosphere. Arnold From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Wed Jan 4 17:44:19 2006 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: rain fall Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 22:44:18 +0000 Hi Arnold: "So if Argentina is getting less does that mean it is falling someplace >else like California." I could not say for sure.Over here during the 90s the 900 mm average annual soared to an uncommon 1,300 mm. This produced fabulous crops and then at the early 2000s there was a gradual reduction and now it is obvious it wil be a period of years of drought. The evident global warming is supposed to extract water from the ocean but it is not falling on South America. And, you have seen the fires in the Sydney regions. And our Australian friends mention very high temperatures. I had assumed that global warming automatically meant increased rainfall but it does not seem to be so. Unless the rain is fallin on the ocean again Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/ From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Thu Jan 5 13:02:31 2006 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: rain fall Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 18:02:29 +0000 Dear all: Why, we wonder, there is less rainfall if the planet is obviously warmer and more water than ever is supposed to be evaporating to the atmosphere? An expert was explaining last night that actually both oceans the Atlantic and the Pacific are colder and as a matter of fact, LESS water is evaporating to the atmosphere. The cause, something very cold down south that is melting away. Do you get the picture? Regards Alberto _________________________________________________________________ MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/ From rafadiezdom@eresmas.net Sun Jan 1 13:26:56 2006 Message-Id: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rafa_D=EDez_Dom=EDnguez?= Subject: Hello Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:29:48 +0100 Hola Alberto, Gracias por tus bonitas palabras... yo estoy muy hornado de haberme ganado tu amistad. Hoy me he llevado una grata sorpresa http://www.pym.es/sargent/gal_art.php?id=18 Me germinó la Neomaria coerulea de M. Peixoto Saludos / Abrazo From ConroeJoe@aol.com Thu Jan 5 23:08:44 2006 Message-Id: <2c8.167beb1.30ef4747@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Which Nerine is it? Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 23:08:39 EST Hi Gang, I was given a clump of Nerines about 3 years ago; there were identified as N. sarniensis. They came in the mail mostly intact and I've been giving them what I think they want, which amounts to dry summers and not too cold winters, and almost no fertilizer. They bloom in Januray, about 2-3 months after they leaf out. The flowers are dainty and pink-lavender, about 1-inch-across or perhaps a bit larger. After thinking about it I've decided they are probably not N. sarniensis. The flowers remind me of the ones in the link, but mine are paler and don't have a stripe. LINK: http://ohric.ucdavis.edu/photos/fullsize/Nerine.jpg I don't grow any other Nerines and I'm wondering what these bulbs are. Maybe they are one of the many hybrids, but I thought N. sarniensis types produced larger flowers. Cordially, Conroe Joe From dszeszko@gmail.com Thu Jan 5 23:56:58 2006 Message-Id: <9912b0b60601052056u6b20bf7btecdb99daddf7f38e@mail.gmail.com> From: Dennis Szeszko Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 36, Issue 5 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 23:56:57 -0500 There is an off-setting effect from increasing the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere. On the one hand, as both Arnold and Alberto noted in their respective messages, increased moisture in the atmosphere *could* augment the amount of solar radiant energy trapped by the atmosphere. This is one possible effect. However, the increased moisture in the atmosphere will result in increased cloud-cover as well. This increase in the cloud cover over dry land and oceans *could* also reflect solar energy back into space and prevent it from reaching the earth's surface. This would have the effect of cooling the earth rather than heating it. Currently, climatologists are not sure what the end result of increasing atmospheric moisture will mean to our climate and whether it will result in a net loss or gain of thermal energy. Perhaps these tendencies fully offset...who knows? But I tend to agree with others that "something" is going on and that it merits thoughtful consideration. Some corrective action would perhaps be warranted, but we know so little about the earth's climate on a macroscopic scale that it would be foolhardy to advocate any course of action without fully knowing what its long-term impact would be. -Dennis If there is "global-warming" trend, then that might explain the 80 degree temperatures in Dallas, Texas in the middle of January. Regardless of the explanation as to "why?", I'm enjoying the weather. So can this contribute to "greenhouse effect" by increasing the water > vapor in the atmosphere. > > Arnold I had assumed that global warming automatically meant increased rainfall but > it does not seem to be so. > > Alberto > > From jshields@indy.net Fri Jan 6 08:25:25 2006 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20060106082308.00b14650@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Which Nerine is it? Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 08:26:17 -0500 Hi Joe, I would guess Nerine undulata. When they are in bloom, get us some good pictures. See mine at: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/amaryllids/nerine.html Best regards, Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) At 11:08 PM 1/5/2006 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Gang, > >I was given a clump of Nerines about 3 years ago; there were identified as N. >sarniensis. They came in the mail mostly intact and I've been giving them >what I think they want, which amounts to dry summers and not too cold >winters, >and almost no fertilizer. > >They bloom in Januray, about 2-3 months after they leaf out. The flowers are >dainty and pink-lavender, about 1-inch-across or perhaps a bit larger. After >thinking about it I've decided they are probably not N. sarniensis. > >The flowers remind me of the ones in the link, but mine are paler and don't >have a stripe. >LINK: http://ohric.ucdavis.edu/photos/fullsize/Nerine.jpg > >I don't grow any other Nerines and I'm wondering what these bulbs are. Maybe >they are one of the many hybrids, but I thought N. sarniensis types produced >larger flowers. > > >Cordially, > >Conroe Joe ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From msittner@mcn.org Fri Jan 6 11:10:30 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060106071915.0358cc38@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Which Nerine is it? Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 08:10:22 -0800 Dear Joe, Nerine species that are winter rainfall generally bloom in the fall, sometimes before their leaves or at about the same time. There are four: N. humilis, N. pudica, N. ridleyi, and N. sarniensis. I grow all but N. ridleyi and this is how they behave for me (if my N. sarniensis hybrids flower). Summer growing species, N. bowdenii, N. huttoniae, N. krigei, N. laticoma and N. marincowitzii are dormant in winter with flowering in midsummer or autumn. The other fifteen species, most which have thread-like leaves and flower in late summer and autumn are summer growing but generally evergreen when grown in temperate climates and in greenhouses. The way yours are behaving is very unusual, that is, blooming in winter, after they have had leaves for some time. That could be because you are treating them like they are a winter rainfall species when they are not and they are adapting accordingly. We have a lot of pictures of Nerines on our wiki. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Nerine There is much variation in the leaves which helps in identification. Most of our wiki pictures are of the flowers however. A helpful booklet on identifying Nerines is Grow Nerines by Graham Duncan. I grow bulbs identified as a cross between N. undulata and N. flexuosa. N. flexuosa is now considered N. humilis. I confess when checking Duncan's book in order to answer your question I see that I have reported this name change incorrectly in the past confusing Nerine alta which is now considered to be N. undulata. Please note those of you I have given seeds of this hybrid. So what I have is a cross between a summer and winter rainfall species. I have some in the ground that tolerate my very wet winters and remain evergreen, blooming in the fall. I have some in containers that often get dried out late spring and remain dormant until late summer and also bloom in the fall. So how I am treating this plant really affects how they grow and there is sometimes a difference in bloom time of several months between the ones that lose their leaves in containers and those in the ground even though they were all from the same parentage. And they are obviously adaptable. You can see those plants on the Nerine hybrids page. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NerineHybrids What you grow may very well be a hybrid as there has been a lot of hybridizing of this genus and even the sarniensis hybrids often have other species in their mix. It would be interesting to see if you changed the way you are treating your plants, if it would change when they grow and bloom. Mary Sue e From ang.por@alice.it Fri Jan 6 18:22:17 2006 Message-Id: <001801c612e3$848c4820$4a4f0157@h7o1x9> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: Which Nerine is it? Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 18:06:21 +0100 I don't know if this helps, but I have Nerine undulata in full glory now and it's the latest of all nerine I grow. I grow N.undulata in two different ways. One group in morning sun with occasional waterings in summer and they are virtually evergreen. Another group is in full sun, without any watering at all, left to the elements. These plants suffered quite a lot in the first years, but now they have adjusted to a winter rainfall schedule, loosing the leaves in summer. These come up again with the first rains and are in blooming now. They can't compare with those in partial shade, they are a bit stressed but are healthy plants anyway, just smaller. Angelo Porcelli south of Italy From doji@hawaii.rr.com Fri Jan 6 16:32:03 2006 Message-Id: <004f01c61308$9c4261a0$370ffea9@aeiyf6hlf7azgl> From: "Gary" Subject: To grow, or not to grow Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 11:31:51 -1000 Hello to all, This is somewhat technical, but of interest to a number of list readers I hope! It is from Stanford University's Science Mailer. Gary in Hilo, HI Adverse growth conditions, such as excess drought and salinity, tend to cause stunted growth in plants. Achard et al. (p. 91) now show that this growth restraint is an actively controlled process, not simply a by-product of disrupted metabolism. The growth restraint is imposed by DELLA proteins, normally localized to the cell nucleus. Arabidopsis has five related DELLA proteins encoded in its genome. The DELLA family of proteins seems to integrate hormonal and environmental signals in order to fine-tune the balance between growth and survival. From ConroeJoe@aol.com Fri Jan 6 19:21:42 2006 Message-Id: <42.7806abf1.30f0638d@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Which Nerine is it Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 19:21:33 EST In a message dated 1/6/2006 11:02:42 AM Central Standard Time, pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org writes: > What you grow may very well be a hybrid as there has been a lot of > hybridizing of this genus and even the sarniensis hybrids often have other > species in their mix. It would be interesting to see if you changed the way > you are treating your plants, if it would change when they grow and bloom. Hi Gang, Thanks for all your notes. The season of growth was something I wondered about. This year was a pretty dry summer. I kept thinking I would take the plant in but I left it out and it just sort of cycled on its own, dying down by later spring. However, the offsets (the smaller bulbs) did stay green all summer. I didn't put it in a lot of sun, but it got very bright light and perhaps 1/3 the amount of water I would give a summer growing bulb. When cool weather came, it has still been a dry year. However, there were some fall rains and the major bulbs leafed out in the combination of shorter days, cooler weather, and a bit of fall rain. So, now I water it every week or 10 days; there are about 5-6 duck-egg-sized bulbs in a 10-inch pot. There was a cold spell about a month ago, and the leaves did their usual cold weather trick. If it doesn't get too cold (23-25 F for a few hours at most), the leaves don't freeze but they collapse and don't really get back their full turgor for a week or two. But, they don't die and they recover OK, without burns, etc. I like the idea that it might be a winter grower hybridized with something else. Thanks again for all the input, I'll try to post a photo. Cordially, Conroe Joe From ConroeJoe@aol.com Fri Jan 6 20:20:47 2006 Message-Id: <8c.35401349.30f0716b@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: C. moorei X C. americanum Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 20:20:43 EST Hi Gang, I like to think of these hybrids as "the rest of the story."  I don't know if they are closely related to 'Dwarf' (Hannibal's Dwarf), but they remind me of that garden charmer.  These hybrids share the same parents (same parent species).  Thus, I imagine that 'Dwarf' could have "siblings or cousins" with different colors and/or vigor, etc.  The plants shown in the link are from a cross that is similar to that which produced 'Dwarf'.  C. americanum seems to be monotypic (I have some from the South Florida that seem essentially identical to some I have collected in East Texas, although they do have smaller stature than forms I have seen in East Texas.  However, C. moorei is a confusing plant, there are pink forms and white forms (i.e., var Schmidtii), and a dark pink form called C. moorei rubra.  Apparently one of the parents of 'Dwarf' was C. moorei rubra, but that is not necessarily the case with the plants in the link below.  It seems likely that there are some garden plants called C. moorei that may really be C. moorei-like hybrids, and perhaps one or more of these was used to produce the flowers seen here.  Nonetheless, the photos on this page show a series of charming and pretty flower types that resemble some aspects of 'Dwarf', including the small size.  The plants do not make aggressive, big flowers, or fragrance powerhouses, but they are attractive and in cool weather, or not-too-hot sun, have exquisite and delicate pink colors.  LINK:  C. moorei X C. americanum http://www.crinum.iconx.com/html/crinum-hybrids-marcelle/crinum-americanum-x-crinum-moorei.html  Cordially, Conroe Joe From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Fri Jan 6 20:39:34 2006 Message-Id: <259F111B.2F156A36@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: birds eating pests. Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 01:39:34 -0000 Dear All: Have any members noticed any birds eating pests? I have seen sparrows eating aphids, and know chickens will eat small slugs, and in England, the thrushes, one of the best song birds, will smash snails against a rock or stone to get at the flesh, do any North American birds do this? Of course worms are eaten and grubs, but are there other birds that help us? Cheers, John E. Bryan From Theladygardens@aol.com Sat Jan 7 02:24:20 2006 Message-Id: <2c6.197a374.30f0c6a0@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: birds eating pests. Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 02:24:16 EST John, I have chickens. If I gather 200 snails in a bucket and dump them all in the chicken pen at once, the chickens eat a few and quit. If I sit down and throw them into the chicken pen one at a time, they run and fight over each one and will eat all 200. The first time I bought fly predators and dumped them into the chicken pen, they promptly ate everyone of them within minutes. Well, I can learn. Now I wait until nightfall, put the predators around the coup in the dark, put them under boards, etc and hopefully I am not just wasting money. Carolyn From hilary@ingascony.com Sat Jan 7 03:22:05 2006 Message-Id: <003301c6136c$31a60f40$0300a8c0@shimmer> From: "Hilary Nightingale" Subject: birds eating pests. Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 09:24:43 -0000 Hi John Many birds eat what we consider to be 'pests'. The tit family time the arrival of their chicks to coincide with gluts of small caterpillars and also eat aphids and other small insects. Starlings poke around in lawns and eat leatherjackets (the larvae of crane flies). My perspective is still of European birds, but different species of the same family often fulfil the same roles on a different continent. There are flycatchers that specialise in catching flying insects by watching from a vantage point and then swooping out to catch what is passing. Wagtails chase and eat small insects too. I have seen a Lesser Spotted Woodpecker drilling to get larvae out of the stems of Scotch Thistle (Onopordon acanthum) and the woodpeckers in general account for a vast number of beetle and other larvae. Starling, seagulls and other birds predate the swarms of flying ants when they appear. There must be many more examples....anyone......? Hilary Nightingale in SW France, where there are definite signs of spring ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bryan" To: Sent: Monday, January 01, 1990 8:13 AM Subject: [pbs] birds eating pests. > Dear All: > > Have any members noticed any birds eating pests? I have seen sparrows > eating aphids, and know chickens will eat small slugs, and in England, > the thrushes, one of the best song birds, will smash snails against a > rock or stone to get at the flesh, do any North American birds do this? > Of course worms are eaten and grubs, but are there other birds that help > us? Cheers, John E. Bryan > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From aquaflorasa@telkomsa.net Sat Jan 7 14:44:25 2006 Message-Id: <00c101c613c2$be8be460$ceb0ef9b@p7d1p2> From: "Aqua Flora" Subject: Global Warming was Rain Fall Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 20:59:56 +0200 Hi group, In the December/January issue of Africa Geographic there appears an article on the effects of Global Warming on Africa. They state that the average temperature in Africa has increased by 1° C since the mid-19th century and optimistic forecasts predict another increase of 2° C by 2100. The last time there was a 3° C shift, the earth was plunged into an ice age. They also explain that heat doesn't necessarily mean less rain, East Africa and the Indian Ocean Islands are likely to see more while North and Central Southern Africa will receive up to 20% less rain. They also predict that Kilimanjaro will be glacier-free by 2020 as will Mount Kenya and the Rwenzoris in Uganda, there has already been an 80% decrease in Kilimanjaro's icecap. Similarly the Rocky Mountains in America are melting away. Because temperature changes with altitude plants and animals are migrating up away from the heat. High-altitude species will be first to go extinct - they have nowhere to go. Contrary to what Alberto's expert said, they have found that an increase in the oceans surface water temperature is making it more difficult for cold, deep water to reach the top. This nutrient-rich water is essential for phytoplankton, the first link in the food chain, to flourish. The same is happening in the Great Lakes where phytoplankton production is already down by 20%. Sea levels will also rise another 20 to 80 centimeters this century due to melting ice but also because warm water takes up more space than cold water. This is bad news for the Seychelles. Warmer oceans will show more frequent 'bleaching' of coral reefs and ultimately alter our weather. And as if this isn't bad enough, the level of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere right now will stay there long enough to keep temperatures rising for over a century, regardless of the Kyoto Protocol. I can only wonder how many species will survive in cultivation and how they will continue to evolve? Regards, Pieter van der Walt South Africa From dkramb@badbear.com Sat Jan 7 14:11:50 2006 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20060107140952.01cb4e50@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Syphilantha Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 14:11:50 -0500 http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Current/Detail/05054.html This is a gorgeous plant, so I just placed an order for one. But I can't turn up any info (not even on Google) for the genus Syphilantha. What is that? I figure if anyone will know it'll be you PBSers. :-) Dennis in Cincy From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sat Jan 7 14:14:21 2006 Message-Id: <1f4.1906248e.30f16d07@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: How Do Plants Know When, and When Not, to Grow Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 14:14:15 EST Part I It has been known for a long time that gibberellic acid (GA) somehow stimulates plant growth. GA was discovered about 80 years ago by a Japanese scientist; today there are many dozens of GA-type molecules known that are collectively called gibberellins (GAs). GA was initially discovered after scientists investigated a plant disease causing fungus called Gibberella; infected rice seedlings grew too much. They stretched tall and thin before they died; investigations showed that the Gibberella fungus was causing the extra growth be releasing a plant hormone that became known as GA. GAs stimulate cell elongation and cell division and these two activities collectively cause stem elongation (growth). A fungus is not the only organism that can make GAs; plants make their own GAs. Typically, dwarf mutants of various plant species have mutations that interfere with GA biology; they don't make their own GAs or they can't detect it, etc. Plants make GAs in a controlled way, thereby controlling their growth. It has long been a mystery how plants known when to make GAs, how they can sense GAs and respond correctly (by growing). This is not an academic question because plant growth affects much of what we notice about plants: 1) when will the shoot tip awaken in spring, 2) why can some plants have extremely short stems and thus make bulbs, 3) how tall will a tree become, 4) when does the grass need mowing again, etc. A few years ago it became clear that some plant proteins, called DELLAs, oppose the effects of GAs. GAs promote growth, whereas DELLAs inhibit growth. GAs can cause a plant to recycle DELLA proteins, effectively removing them and thereby removing a "brake" on plant growth. Thus, while the molecular mechanisms are still murky, the outlines of the story are clear. DELLAs inhibit growth, and GAs cause the loss of DELLA proteins. Presumably, lower levels of DELLAs results in more growth because DELLAs inhibit growth. A plant is, in effect, a finely balance bit of machinery always making GAs or DELLAs as needed in order to achieve correct growth. Imbalance of either component results in increased growth or stunting, depending upon the nature of the imbalance. The exciting discovery reported this week in Science concerns the DELLA proteins. They have a few tricks of their own, and they actually seem to help plants decide when to slow down growth. Cordially, Conroe Joe LINK: Gibberellin (Wikipedia) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibberellin LINK: Abstract (GA inactivates DELLAs) http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/short/299/5614/1896 LINK: Dr. Harberd Laboratory Web Page http://www.jic.bbsrc.ac.uk/staff/nicholas-harberd/ LINK: Relieving DELLA Restraint (subscription needed) http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/299/5614/1853 From jimmckenney@starpower.net Sat Jan 7 16:02:31 2006 Message-Id: <4iore0$5ngsl9@smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Syphilantha Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 16:02:24 -0500 OK Dennis, are you pulling our leg? The proprietor of the nursery in question has a great sense of humor, one much exercised at the expense of the more conservative interpretations of the seventh commandment. Your doctor can no doubt prescribe something to put on it. Stay away from it for a week or two. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Lobelia syphilitica is native but not much relied on. From paul@cumbleton.freeserve.co.uk Sat Jan 7 16:09:08 2006 Message-Id: From: "Paul Cumbleton" Subject: Rhodophiala - after germination Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 21:09:08 -0000 Hi Everyone, I have no experience with Rhodophiala but recently got seed from Osmani Ballosa. These were R. bagnoldii and R. advena. Following the advice on his website I soaked these in water at 15 centigrade for 3 days. Several seeds started to germinate and I then planted them. My question is, what temperature should I now keep these at? They are winter growers and 15 centigrade seems rather warm. Does anyone have experience of growing these on after germination? Thanks in anticipation.. Paul Cumbleton Berkshire, U.K. Zone 8 From dkramb@badbear.com Sat Jan 7 16:10:27 2006 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20060107160439.01cb05e0@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Syphilantha Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 16:10:23 -0500 At 04:02 PM 1/7/2006, you wrote: >OK Dennis, are you pulling our leg? Nope! I'm really that stupid.... or else that pun was a bit obtuse. Anyway, thanks for the clarification. I'll assume the plant is actually a Lobelia. Dennis in Cincy From voltaire@islandnet.com Sat Jan 7 20:02:39 2006 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Syphilantha Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 17:02:31 -0800 It looks somewhat like Lobelia laxiflora. Diane Whitehead www.csdl.tamu.edu/ FLORA/imaxxcam.htm From voltaire@islandnet.com Sat Jan 7 20:11:46 2006 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Syphilantha Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 17:11:44 -0800 The only genus in the Campanulaceae that is spelled at all similarly is Symphyandra, and all its species come from Eurasia. Diane Whitehead From lwallpe@juno.com Sat Jan 7 21:08:32 2006 Message-Id: <20060107.180730.14905.331500@webmail15.lax.untd.com> From: "lwallpe@juno.com" Subject: (no subject) Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 02:07:01 GMT John - A few that come to mind: Carolina Wren eats spiders and insects on and near the ground. My personal favorite because it daily cleans my porch of spiders! Yellow-Billed Cuckoo eats the green tent worm Brown Thrasher forages on the ground for insects Brown Creeper investigates tree bark looking for insects Eastern (formerly Rufous) Towhee scratches in leaf litter like a chicken looking for insects,nuts and seeds Owls and Hawks of course eat rodents. Linda Wallpe Cincinnati, Ohio 6A <> ___________________________________________________________________ Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today! From plantlady@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Sat Jan 7 23:09:29 2006 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: Global Warming was Rain Fall Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 21:10:32 -0700 Hello All, I wonder how much the change in the magnetic poles has to do with our climate changes as well? http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/29dec_magneticfield.htm I don't have exact numbers, however this was one of southern Alberta's wettest years with the worst flooding seen in over 100 years. Now we are facing fire bans and fire risk due to lack of moisture. We still have no snow and as a Canadian girl who grew up on the prairies it is just down right weird! My camassia bulbs are growing! Linda Foulis Okotoks, AB Foothills of the Rockies, praying for snow! From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sun Jan 8 10:46:06 2006 Message-Id: <23f.4e26a0f.30f28db7@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: When to Grow, Part II Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 10:45:59 EST Hi Gang, Part II (When to Grow, or Not to Grow) Gardeners enjoy plant growth; we strive to make it happen. Typically, we want a plant to grow; more growth typically means more flowers, or more fruit, etc. DELLA proteins restrain plant growth, a phenomenon known as the "DELLA restraint." DELLA proteins are a natural part of plants and plants use a series of mechanisms to enhance growth or oppose growth. DELLAs oppose the "growth enhancing" effects of gibberellins. Though they restrain growth, the DELLA proteins are normal and not a negative or "bad" phenomenon. They are a healthy part of plant biology because plants can't grow all the time in all their parts; growth must be regulated and DELLAs are part of that regulation. Plants typically have optimal times to grow, other times when slow growth is warranted, and still other times when growth ceases and perhaps other activities take place (e.g., flowering or downward sap flow, etc.). The exciting news this week concerns another apparent property of DELLA proteins (Science, Jan. 6, 311:91-94). It seems that DELLA proteins can slow down plant growth during periods of environmental stress; in the experiments reported the plants were stressed with salty soils. It has long been clear that "medium" salty growth conditions cause plants to be stunted or to grow more slowly (salt-stressed plants are smaller and are late to flower). But it was not so clear that the slow growth resulted from molecular decisions on the part of the plant, as opposed to the stressor itself. It has always seemed plausible that stunted growth, slower growth, and delayed flowering might well be due to the stress itself (in this case salt-stress). Perhaps, it was thought, salt acts as a toxin and simply deranges normal physiological systems, even killing tissues and cells outright. No doubt this still seems likely at "very high" levels of salt. But, the research reported this week points at another mechanism that causes slow growth: the DELLA proteins. In fact, the report provides evidence that such slow growth in the face of salt-stress is advantageous for plants. Restrained growth seems to allow more plants to survive salt exposure than plants that lack DELLA proteins. In the research reported, 4 of 5 known DELLA proteins in one plant species were removed by genetic engineering. The resultant DELLA-deficient plants grew faster and flowered more quickly in salty soil than did wild-type plants (the DELLA restraint had been removed). The authors concluded that DELLA proteins were, in fact, responsible for the slower growth observed under the conditions of the experiment, and that medium salty conditions, per se, are not responsible for the slower growth. Put another way, plants missing the 4 DELLA proteins grew faster than wild-type plants when exposed to salt. Put yet another way, the plants themselves have a mechanism that slows their growth when exposed to medium salty conditions. Thus, DELLA proteins seem to slow plant growth in salty situations, but there is a very interesting twist. Though they might be faster growers at nontoxic levels of salt, DELLA-deficient plants were more easily killed higher concentrations of salt. Thus, something about growing more slowly (the DELLA restraint), allows plants to survive better when faced with potentially toxic levels of salt. The authors concluded that there is a reason DELLA proteins slow down growth; slow growth may assist in overall plant survival during stressful conditions. The researchers hypothesized that slower growth might allow a plant to redirect resources to overcome problems associated with stress, or perhaps that a smaller plant size is useful in hostile environments. Clearly, the full story is not known, many more discoveries await. But the story this week is that plants have sophisticated mechanisms to slow their growth when they encounter environmental problems, and that such slow growth may be advantageous. Cordially, Conroe Joe LINK: Science Article, Jan. 6, 2006, DELLAs and Stress http://members.aol.com/jshaw1953/dellasstressplants.pdf LINK: A Model of Plant Genes and How They Might Interact http://tinyurl.com/dle7s From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Sun Jan 8 10:55:36 2006 Message-Id: <002101c6146b$f4435f30$6cd2f7a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: PBS meeting Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 07:55:30 -0800 Dear All: In spite of the recent storms, I am trying to firm up the weekend of the February 4/5 for the meeting at my house. If a major storm system moves in for that weekend, it will be cancelled in view of the fact that most people have to travel some distance. I have sent out e-mails to individuals who responded previously. Please notify me privately if you are interested in coming. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs From osmani_baullosa@yahoo.com Sun Jan 8 11:06:03 2006 Message-Id: <20060108160603.44080.qmail@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Osmani Baullosa Subject: Rhodophiala - after germination Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 08:06:03 -0800 (PST) Hello Paul, and all Both species come from coastal zones, and grow at an average winter temperatures of 7-12ºC, on sandy soils, apparently very infertile. However I grow them at home, where winter average temperatures are lower: 2-5ºC. When eventual frosts occur, as I keep them in pots, don't take risks, but bring the pots indoors. I've notticed that R. advena is more resistant to (light: -1ºC) frosts than R. bagnoldii. There is something very important you should remember: not all these seeds germinate at the same time, even being of the same species, even being fresh and collected at the same moment. When you said "several started to germinate and then I planted them", for a moment I was afraid that, when the first seeds sprouted and the others don't, you throwed these others. If you have any other question or doubt, don't hesitate to ask... Regards, Osmani Paul Cumbleton wrote: Hi Everyone, I have no experience with Rhodophiala but recently got seed from Osmani Ballosa. These were R. bagnoldii and R. advena. Following the advice on his website I soaked these in water at 15 centigrade for 3 days. Several seeds started to germinate and I then planted them. My question is, what temperature should I now keep these at? They are winter growers and 15 centigrade seems rather warm. Does anyone have experience of growing these on after germination? Thanks in anticipation.. Paul Cumbleton Berkshire, U.K. Zone 8 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. From dszeszko@gmail.com Sun Jan 8 12:20:32 2006 Message-Id: <9912b0b60601080920k53b23711p111465f37f885a0a@mail.gmail.com> From: Dennis Szeszko Subject: Syphilantha Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 12:20:32 -0500 Hi: The "mystery plant" is Lobelia laxiflora. It is quite a common plant in Mexico and I see it a lot during the course of my fieldwork. The flowers are very beautiful and seem to hover in the air as they dangle from their stalk, but the plant itself is a somewhat large and ungraceful shrub. Of course, it is possible that Tony at Plant Delights might have a more compact, "garden-friendly" cultivar available. The plant grows at high altitudes in filtered light and is accustomed to xeric conditions during winter so it is possible that it could be quite hardy in the southern United States. The flowers are a hummingbird magnet. The thought had crossed my mind of collecting seed to share, but the plant in its undomesticated state (in my opinion) would not make a good candidate for a perennial garden. Some work with line-breeding should result in a more compact plant that is more floriferous...now THAT would be worth purchasing. -Dennis From jimmckenney@starpower.net Sun Jan 8 12:42:39 2006 Message-Id: <4iore0$5nlfbn@smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: a fascinating discovery Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 12:42:35 -0500 I was away from home during late December and early January. To pass the time, I introduced my hosts to Google Earth. Everyone had a great time looking up old residences, current homes and so on. Later on I got bored and tried what John Grimshaw described: I tried to find the homes of some PBS members. I also tried it on my own address. When I tried my own address, it found a house down the street - one obviously not a gardener's house! When I moved the view to center on my house, I noticed that the image presented was several years old. What we were viewing was the free service; is there a for-pay service which has current views? Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where I'm looking forward to a live-view Google Earth! From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Sun Jan 8 13:22:16 2006 Message-Id: <259F12B7.742C0206@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: (no subject) Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 18:22:16 -0000 Thank you Linda, surprising all the information I am gathering. Cheers, John E. Bryan "lwallpe@juno.com" wrote: > > John - > > A few that come to mind: > > Carolina Wren eats spiders and insects on and near the ground. My personal favorite because it daily cleans my porch of spiders! > > Yellow-Billed Cuckoo eats the green tent worm > > Brown Thrasher forages on the ground for insects > > Brown Creeper investigates tree bark looking for insects > > Eastern (formerly Rufous) Towhee scratches in leaf litter like a chicken looking for insects,nuts and seeds > > Owls and Hawks of course eat rodents. > > Linda Wallpe > Cincinnati, Ohio 6A > > < us? Cheers, John E. Bryan>> > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! > Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. > Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today! > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Sun Jan 8 14:10:50 2006 Message-Id: <007301c61487$3a0feae0$6ae10352@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Syphilantha Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 19:10:41 -0000 I asked my friend Eric Knox, Director of the University of Indiana Herbarium and world authority on Lobelia and its relatives, about this mysterious Siphilantha. He replies: The picture looks like a Centropogon, which is one of the segregate genera closely related to Burmeistera and Siphocampylus; all three derived out of Lobelia. I have never heard of Syphilantha (but I will double check), and I assume that it is a bad approximation of Siphocampylus. Half the Lobeliaceae (650 spp.) are in this C[entropogon]B[urmeistera]S[iphocampylus] [JMG brackets] clade, the radiation presumably based on the coevolution with neotropical hummingbirds. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP SNOWDROP OPEN DAYS AT COLESBOURNE PARK 2006 Every weekend in February, Saturday and Sunday only, from 1 pm 4/5, 11/12,18/19, 25/26 Groups tours by arrangement Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Kramb" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 7:11 PM Subject: [pbs] Syphilantha > http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Current/Detail/05054.html > > This is a gorgeous plant, so I just placed an order for one. But I can't > turn up any info (not even on Google) for the genus Syphilantha. What is > that? I figure if anyone will know it'll be you PBSers. :-) > > Dennis in Cincy > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From putman@pobox.upenn.edu Sun Jan 8 14:45:30 2006 Message-Id: <43C16BC6.5020200@pobox.upenn.edu> From: Stephen Putman Subject: John Bryan Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 14:45:10 -0500 John, I always enjoy reading your comments,.....but, will you please fix the date on your computer, your messages always get placed way at the "old" end of my message que of several pages because your computer thinks it is 01 January 1990. While there are some good reasons why I might wish to be in 1990, reality prevails, and I'm stuck here in 2006. Thanks, Steve Putman John Bryan wrote: > Thank you Linda, surprising all the information I am gathering. Cheers, > John E. Bryan > > "lwallpe@juno.com" wrote: > >>John - >> >>A few that come to mind: >> >>Carolina Wren eats spiders and insects on and near the ground. My personal favorite because it daily cleans my porch of spiders! >> >>Yellow-Billed Cuckoo eats the green tent worm >> >>Brown Thrasher forages on the ground for insects >> >>Brown Creeper investigates tree bark looking for insects >> >>Eastern (formerly Rufous) Towhee scratches in leaf litter like a chicken looking for insects,nuts and seeds >> >>Owls and Hawks of course eat rodents. >> >>Linda Wallpe >>Cincinnati, Ohio 6A >> >><>us? Cheers, John E. Bryan>> >> >>___________________________________________________________________ >>Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! >>Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. >>Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today! >> >>_______________________________________________ >>pbs mailing list >>pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Theladygardens@aol.com Sun Jan 8 15:21:03 2006 Message-Id: From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Plants arrived Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 15:20:56 EST Arrived safely. Like your method of packing! Carolyn From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Jan 8 17:51:23 2006 Message-Id: <43C19769.2030607@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: a fascinating discovery Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 17:51:21 -0500 Jim: I don't believe it will work with a Mac. Arnold From jimmckenney@starpower.net Sun Jan 8 18:01:46 2006 Message-Id: <4iore0$5nna8a@smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: a fascinating discovery Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 18:01:43 -0500 Arnold wrote: I don't believe it will work with a Mac. So if I change my name to Jim Kenney, it will work? Jim McKenney From leo@possi.org Sun Jan 8 18:31:27 2006 Message-Id: <50699.12.65.144.175.1136763085.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Rhodophiala - after germination Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 16:31:25 -0700 (MST) > I have no experience with Rhodophiala but recently got seed from Osmani > Ballosa. These were R. bagnoldii and R. advena. Following the advice on > his > website I soaked these in water at 15 centigrade for 3 days. Several seeds > started to germinate and I then planted them. My question is, what > temperature should I now keep these at? They are winter growers and 15 > centigrade seems rather warm. Does anyone have experience of growing these > on after germination? > Thanks in anticipation.. > > Paul Cumbleton > Berkshire, U.K. > Zone 8 Hello Paul, I have winters here in Phoenix, Arizona, USA with outside daytime temperatures 5-20C and nights -8 to 5C. I would think an unheated glasshouse or cold frame in your Zone 8 would duplicate this. I ordered these and other seed from Osmani and followed his directions, leaving the jars with water on my kitchen counter. A few sprouted. I removed these and planted them into sandy soil and put them outside where they would not freeze. They grew. I left the remaining ones floating in the jars. I put the seeds into a small strainer every week and rinsed them off with a stream of water to wash off any fungus that might be trying to get started, and then I returned the seeds to floating on the water in the jars. I think a tea strainer would work fine. After a few weeks nothing had happened, so I put the jars in the refrigerator (not freezer) for a week and then returned them to the counter. A few more sprouted. I repeated this warm-cold cycle 4 times. There are only a few seeds left that did not sprout. The seedlings really do like full sun from the start. The earlier ones I left in the house to get "established" don't look as good as the ones that went outside right away. Thank you, Osmani. I'd order more right now but I'm getting ready for 3 weeks visiting plants in Mexico. Yes, I'll take pictures! But there won't be many bulbs in bloom or even in leaf. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Jan 8 20:11:20 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20060108171007.0113fcc8@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Birds as predators Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 17:11:15 -0800 Caroline wrote, "Eastern (formerly Rufous) Towhee scratches in leaf litter like a chicken looking for insects,nuts and seeds" And also looking for CROCUSES, which they pull up to eat the corms. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From DaveKarn@aol.com Mon Jan 9 09:18:41 2006 Message-Id: From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: Global Warming was Rain Fall Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 09:18:32 EST In a message dated 1/7/2006 8:09:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, plantlady@beautifulblooms.ab.ca writes: I wonder how much the change in the magnetic poles has to do with our climate changes as well? It certainly can affect global weather patterns, as can a whole range of other phenomena! I recently watched a History channel special: The Big Chill: the Little Ice Age. For some 500 years in the Middle Ages, Europe (and much of the Northern Hemisphere) experienced a period of very cold weather. While there is disagreement about what caused this -- a period of unusually high volcanic activity or major changes in the warm water conveyor in the Atlantic Ocean -- there is no disagreement about the effect. The changes this caused in agriculture, living standards, war, migration, (even some speculation about why Stradivarius violins are the way they are -- formed of harder, denser wood grown in a cold climate), etc., was fascinating to hear and see. What is important is that it seemed to have occurred suddenly and very rapidly (although a mere blink in geologic time, of course!). Wine grapes, for example, (introduced by the Romans) were common in England prior to the Little Ice Age and produced the major beverage of the time -- wine. The extreme cold killed them off causing a major change from wine drinking to beer and hard alcoholic beverages, etc., that could be created from more cold tolerant cereal crops. Cereal crops, the mainstay of the population, were ultimately devastated by both the Little Ice Age and almost continuous warfare. One result was that the heretofore scorned potato became a major food crop because it grew underground protected from weather extremes, as well as being somewhat difficult to destroy/burn by marauding armies. The thriving Viking civilization in Greenland disappeared when the climate became too cold for agriculture and grazing animals. Heavy sea ice stopped shipping to and from Greenland and Europe, cutting off resupply of those colonies causing their extinction. One theory is that of the 400K man army Napoleon used to invade Russia, barely 1% survived to return to France having been decimated by an unusually cold period of weather -- much of it either starved or froze to death, or both. Excavations for a building in Vilnius, Lithuania, uncovered a mass grave of some 3000 Napoleonic troops that died there. How many others never got buried or lie in still uncovered mass graves? The most fascinating theory concerned the warm water conveyor that carries warm tropical waters northward (warming the whole region of the North Atlantic) that gradually cools, increasing in density. This colder, denser salty water sinks at the North end of the conveyor, gradually working its way back to the equator only to rise (to replace the warm water moving northward) again to keep the "engine" of this current functioning. The theory is that the warmer period prior to the Little Ice Age caused substantial melting of the polar ice caps. The resulting flood of fresh water, lighter than salt water, mixed with the saline water on the surface of the ocean, so diluting it that it ceased its former increase in density to the point where it no longer sank to create the southward flow of cold water to the equator to be warmed effectively ceasing the conveyor. There is a great deal of argument today about just what is going on with our climate. There can be no question that it is getting warmer (ever since the Industrial Age) and that CO2 and other "greenhouse" gases have increased in the atmosphere. Whether this increase is a recurring phenomenon and has little to do with the burning of fossil fuels is still being debated. For example, during the Carboniferous Era, CO2 was probably in greater abundance in the atmosphere than it is today. But, then, the composition of gases in the atmosphere was considerably different that it is today. I don't think there is any disagreement that the Earth's ice fields and glaciers are melting. Whether enough has done so to affect the North Atlantic conveyor, for example, remains to be seen and whether that will cause the sudden onset of another ice age is yet to be seen. Perhaps, if another volcano explodes and sends hundreds of thousands of tons of gas and ash into the stratosphere to cut the amount of sunlight reaching the Earth's surface (the explosion of Mt. St. Helens pumped only 1% of the materials that the explosion of Pinatubo blew into the stratosphere!) and that in conjunction with the NA conveyor is speculation, of course, but there should be no doubt about the outcome should both occur . . . Dave Karnstedt Silverton, Oregon From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon Jan 9 09:40:35 2006 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Global Warming was Rain Fall Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 14:40:33 +0000 Dave Karn wrote: "There is a great deal of argument today about just what is going on with our >climate. There can be no question that it is getting warmer (ever since >the >Industrial Age) and that CO2 and other "greenhouse" gases have increased in >the >atmosphere. Whether this increase is a recurring phenomenon and has little >to do with the burning of fossil fuels is still being debated." Hi: Of course as Pietr has pointed out, this is not OT as the ultimate question is what will happen with our bulbs in the wild and in our collections? It may be coincidence but last night there was National Geographic Society program showing the effects of the melting down of the North Pole and Greenland ice and the cold water moving south have the potential to stop the Gulf Current from reaching Europe and thus provoking an Ice Age. There is evidence in ancient sources that the classic world was colder (for instance, how could they produce beer in Egypt?, changes of topography, etc.). Of course there were no potatoes in that period. After this hot dry 2005 I am most alarmed at the performance of our irids in cultivation as mentioned in my previous one. No doubt wild plants, subject to more severe stress, must have responded likewise. All the best Alberto _________________________________________________________________ ¿Estás pensando en cambiar de coche? Todas los modelos de serie y extras en MSN Motor. http://motor.msn.es/researchcentre/ From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Mon Jan 9 09:55:42 2006 Message-Id: <257.46e94a7.30f3d36b@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Global Warming was Rain Fall Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 09:55:39 EST In a message dated 1/9/2006 9:18:57 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, DaveKarn@aol.com writes: >One theory is that of the 400K man army Napoleon used to invade Russia, barely 1% survived to return to France having been decimated by an unusually cold period of weather -- much of it either starved or froze to death, or both< "Using dental pulp extracted from the teeth of soldiers who died during Napoleon’s disastrous retreat through Russia in 1812, a new study finds DNA evidence that epidemic typhus and trench fever ran rampant among the French Grand Army. The study, published in the Jan. 1 issue of The Journal of Infectious Diseases, now available online, identifies the specific species of louse-borne pathogens that were a major cause of death among the remains of the retreating army." . Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA From Blee811@aol.com Mon Jan 9 11:46:52 2006 Message-Id: <2bf.308ecd9.30f3ed75@aol.com> From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: Global Warming was Rain Fall Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 11:46:45 EST Michael Crichton's State of Fear is a novel based on global warming (and the intrigue between opposing groups, of course). A major contention is that climate changes are mostly natural and unavoidable, that is, that they have always occurred and will continue to do so, regardless of what man does to the environment. Bill Lee From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon Jan 9 12:18:05 2006 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Global Warming was Rain Fall Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 17:17:59 +0000 >From: Blee811@aol.com >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >Subject: Re: [pbs] Global Warming was Rain Fall >Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 11:46:45 EST > >Michael Crichton's State of Fear is a novel based on global warming (and >the >intrigue between opposing groups, of course). A major contention is that >climate changes are mostly natural and unavoidable, that is, that they have >always occurred and will continue to do so, regardless of what man does to >the >environment. >Bill Lee Hi: I bet he has no problem in having his books published. If in any diffciulty, oil companies would rush to the rescue. As an alternative have you read "The Sheep Look Up" by John Brunner? It foresees many things that are happening now and that by the time it was written seemed ultra science fiction. All the best Alberto _________________________________________________________________ Las mejores tiendas, los precios mas bajos, entregas en todo el mundo, YupiMSN Compras: http://latam.msn.com/compras/ From paul@cumbleton.freeserve.co.uk Mon Jan 9 14:54:01 2006 Message-Id: From: "Paul Cumbleton" Subject: Rhodophiala - after germination Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:53:58 -0000 Dear Osmani and Leo Thanks so much for your helpful advice about my query. And don't worry Osmani - I have not thrown away the ungerminated seeds! Best wishes all Paul Cumbleton Berkshire, U.K. Zone 8 From aquaflorasa@telkomsa.net Mon Jan 9 15:11:14 2006 Message-Id: <005101c61558$d63a2d00$96b0ef9b@p7d1p2> From: "Aqua Flora" Subject: Global Warming Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 22:08:52 +0200 Hi, In response to Linda's question regarding the influence change in the magnetic poles has on our climate, I would like to ad that it is believed by some scientists that the magnetic poles "swop" places every now and then (in geological terms) and apparently we are about 10 000 years overdue. They also found that the earths magnetic field is weakening and letting through more solar radiation which could also be contributing to Global Warming. Dave. Yes, there are those schools of thought who suggest that Global Warming is merely a "recurring phenomenon" (before the onset of yet another Ice Age), but I am not thoroughly convinced. You mentioned that CO2 was probably in greater abundance in the atmosphere during the Carboniferous Era than it is today. Where did it go? Into fossil fuels? That leads me to another question, how did all the organic material needed to produce fossil fuels get down there and where did it come from??? Regards, Pieter van der Walt South Africa From khixson@nu-world.com Mon Jan 9 15:37:45 2006 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20060109105854.030e2c50@mail.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: OT? Global Warming Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 12:35:39 -0800 HI, All This is a fascinating thread, and we can argue about it for a long time. Some of us believe the worst, some of us believe otherwise. The reason for that is very simple. We know some of the facts, but by no means all of them. We know there is water in the glass, and it is either half full, or half empty, but is that the normal state of affairs? Is there perhaps a crack in the glass that we can't see, letting water out? We are beginning to understand some of the checks and balances built into world weather, but not all of them or how they function. For instance, it is often claimed that the world is getting warmer. These claims are based on recent weather, compared with fairly recent historical past weather--after all, we don't have very good weather records beyond a couple hundred years. A couple hundred years ago we were coming out of a mini-ice age, so anything now looks excessively warm. The fact is, we are speculating that we know what past weather was, and will be in the future. Most of the speculations I've seen do not mention that as the carbon dioxide increases and the earth warms, plants also grow faster--with every ten degrees F, plant growth approximately doubles, thus absorbing more carbon dioxide. At some point plant growth will absorb all the new carbon dioxide. As ice melts, it absorbs immense amounts of heat (specific heat), and the fresh water expands the oceans, which reflects more light back into space. About thirty years ago, with the advent of weather satellites in space, it was discovered that there was a hole in the ozone layer, and it was getting bigger. The chicken littles rushed around crying "The sky is falling, the sky is falling", or rather, "The ozone layer is shrinking". There was a lot of speculation about the bad effects of this, but to this day I've never seen any definitive statement whether or not it is an entirely normal thing which expands and contracts, or is purely a result of man's activities. I suspect there is a check, and the ozone layer hole will start to close by some effect we do not yet know or understand. We think we know the earth's magnetic poles are shifting, but why, and what effect will it have on the weather? Will the Northern lights now occur over California? And so on. In addition to Mark's comments about disease in Napoleon's armies, feeding his armies was a tremendous problem, in a time when preserving and transporting food was a huge problem. Napoleon offered a huge reward for anyone who could help preserve food, and Louis Pastuer won the award for the process now called pasteurization, of heat treating food. Canning food as a means of preservation is the result, prior to which food was preserved by drying, pickling or salting. It probably wouldn't have helped Napoleon's armies even if there was enough food available (with all able bodied men in the army instead of raising food) simply because the transport was inadequate to ship enough food the tremendous distance involved. Dave made a comment about the "scorned potato". What needs to be kept in mind is that the potato was not introduced into Europe until the americas were discovered, and food plants were not the first thing looted from the americas. The potatos brought back to Europe were not adapted to European conditions, and several generations of selection needed to done before they adapted to become a meaningful food crop. Building up adequate "seed stocks" of the new crop, and distributing it to appropriate areas also took time. Then, subsistance farmers are notoriously slow to adopt new crops, so getting potatos to become a dependable food source took time. Just when it became a staple of the diet, the disease late blight hit and caused widespread famine in a population that had adapted to the new food source. The potato was scorned because of the famine, when it became obvious that the new food source was not as dependable as had been hoped. Dave also commented that the romans brought grapes to Europe (and specifically England) and wine was the drink of choice. Perhaps for the nobility, but the peasants in England probably never saw it. The grapes were probably those that were adapted to Italy, and lacked cold tolerance. Getting grapes with cold hardiness again required time, and an understanding of the need. The area of central Europe would have been the logical source of cold hardy grapes, but the romans were in a constant state of warfare with the peoples of central europe, if the people there even grew grapes. What does this mean to me as a grower of bulbs? Well, the USDA now lists my area as Zone 8, as winters for the past thirty years haven't gotten much below +15F. However, in my lifetime it has been -12F (December 1972), twice minus 5F, and several times to just above 0F. When I'm in zone denial, I try to grow Hedychium gardnerianum, Dahlias and Cannas. The Hedychium this year has tolerated a couple days of +25F, though it looks badly frostburned right now. I realize I'm gambling, and if I lose plants, I'll know that it isn't the end of the world. My lifetime is the blink of an eye on a geological time scale, and this area probably isn't Zone 8, even though I've been enjoying the fact that it has been warmer than usual. Will it be -5F within the next ten years? I won't bet against it. Ken From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon Jan 9 16:02:09 2006 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Global Warming Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 21:02:07 +0000 Hi: Was it Arnold who posted time ago a fabulous image of the world at night. Where does all the energy to make it sparkle it like a diamond come from? _________________________________________________________________ MSN Amor: busca tu ½ naranja http://latam.msn.com/amor/ From jimmckenney@starpower.net Mon Jan 9 16:18:44 2006 Message-Id: <4iore0$5o0or6@smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Pasteur born after the Napoleonic Wars; was RE: OT? Global Warming Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:18:39 -0500 Ken Hixon wrote " In addition to Mark's comments about disease in Napoleon's armies, feeding his armies was a tremendous problem, in a time when preserving and transporting food was a huge problem. Napoleon offered a huge reward for anyone who could help preserve food, and Louis Pastuer won the award for the process now called pasteurization, of heat treating food. Canning food as a means of preservation is the result..." That sounded a bit off to me - Pasteur was not active during the Napoleonic wars. So I checked the wikipedia entry for canning. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canning From this, I learned that canning was developed by a Frenchman named Nicolas Francois Appert in the early nineteenth century. By 1810 a British worker developed a process for using tin lined cans. Thus, canning was not the result of Pasteur's work in developing the process now known as pasteurization. Napoleon I died in 1821, the year before Pasteur was born. In fact, it was Napoleon III who, in the 1860s, asked Pasteur to investigate problems of wine spoilage - these studies led to the development of Pasteurization. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, wine growing country if you try. From jimmckenney@starpower.net Mon Jan 9 16:20:30 2006 Message-Id: <4iore0$5o0pgr@smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Global Warming Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:20:28 -0500 Alberto asked: "Was it Arnold who posted time ago a fabulous image of the world at night. Where does all the energy to make it sparkle it like a diamond come from?" I thought it came from lovemaking! Jim McKenney From dells@voicenet.com Mon Jan 9 16:26:32 2006 Message-Id: <20060109212632.B90264C012@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pasteur born after the Napoleonic Wars; was RE: OT? Global Warming Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:26:39 -0500 Napoleon III couldn't have come up with the idea of asking Pasteur on his own. Must have been an advisor. N III, the old goat, was busy making love to keep the world sparkling. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jim McKenney Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:19 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: [pbs] Pasteur born after the Napoleonic Wars;was RE: OT? Global Warming Ken Hixon wrote " In addition to Mark's comments about disease in Napoleon's armies, feeding his armies was a tremendous problem, in a time when preserving and transporting food was a huge problem. Napoleon offered a huge reward for anyone who could help preserve food, and Louis Pastuer won the award for the process now called pasteurization, of heat treating food. Canning food as a means of preservation is the result..." That sounded a bit off to me - Pasteur was not active during the Napoleonic wars. So I checked the wikipedia entry for canning. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canning From this, I learned that canning was developed by a Frenchman named Nicolas Francois Appert in the early nineteenth century. By 1810 a British worker developed a process for using tin lined cans. Thus, canning was not the result of Pasteur's work in developing the process now known as pasteurization. Napoleon I died in 1821, the year before Pasteur was born. In fact, it was Napoleon III who, in the 1860s, asked Pasteur to investigate problems of wine spoilage - these studies led to the development of Pasteurization. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, wine growing country if you try. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jimmckenney@starpower.net Mon Jan 9 18:07:03 2006 Message-Id: <4k6l9v$4geoq1@smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: The worst of all garden pests Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:07:00 -0500 Daytime temperatures hovered around 60 degrees F today for hours. One result of the clement conditions was renewed activity by the worst of all garden pests. And what would that be? How about a wriggly finger attached to a bored, impatient gardener! I couldn't help myself. I had to get out and see how everything was doing. This is, of course, an excellent way to break fragile new sprouts, disturb barely established root systems, dislodge labels, and leave little scent markers to tell the squirrels and raccoons where to dig. In my time, I've done all of that. Still, curious minds want to know. Last August I received a treasure-trove of bulbs from Jane McGary, and they all seem to be doing very well. I may be counting my chickens before they hatch - before they freeze in fact - but today things look very promising. Everything Jane has ever sent has arrived in such good condition: thanks seem hardly enough. And this year there is another supplier to whom I owe a big thank you. There are some bulbs which, although long and sometimes widely offered, are very difficult to acquire in good condition. The various forms of Erythronium dens-canis are an example. Last fall a nice selection of the cultivars of this species arrived from Odyssey Bulbs. Each bulb was packed in its own little plastic zip-lock bag with a bit of sphagnum. I checked each bulb today (they are potted individually in clear plastic cut-down soda bottles) and each has a massive root system. I'm a very happy gardener today, and very proud of my wriggly finger. Incidentally, don't jump to the conclusion that all Erythronium need to be packed this way. Jane sends out her western American species dry in well ventilated plastic bags - and the ones she has sent me have gone on to grow beautifully. I'm having trouble typing because my finger is still wriggling. Tomorrow I'll be out there again checking things out. Some fall crocus are still in bloom (CC. medius, pallasii, longiflorus, ochroleucus - hermoneus was still in bloom last week), C. biflorus melantherus is blooming, Colchicum kesselringii is blooming, and bud color is just barely discernable on Crocus korolkowii. The first of the late-winter-blooming witch hazels opened today, and the first flower buds of garden hellebores are above ground. Guess who has spring fever? What a year! Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, UDA, USDA zone 7, where my wriggly finger seems to have a bit of truffle hound in it! From ConroeJoe@aol.com Mon Jan 9 19:48:07 2006 Message-Id: <1fb.18279f71.30f45e43@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Canna Hybrids Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:48:03 EST Hi Gang, I've enjoyed working with Marcelle Sheppard to document some of her plant breeding successes (and failures) over the years.  Truly, I enjoy the chance to pick up a hobby unrelated to my day-job.  Moreover, the added benefit is that, on some days, Marcelle says, "Here, try these seeds."  In addition to Crinum, Marcelle has bred a variety of Canna hybrids over the years.  She worked with Herb Kelly to introduce many of them.  I'll get this posted on a Web site someday, but for now a fairly complete list of her introductions is at the indicated link. LINK:  Marcelle Sheppard's Hybrid Canna Introductions http://members.aol.com/conroejoe/marcellescannas.doc Cordially, Conroe Joe From lizwat@earthlink.net Mon Jan 9 20:01:51 2006 Message-Id: <43C30780.2060901@earthlink.net> From: Liz Waterman Subject: hiip Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 17:01:52 -0800 I've posted some photos to the WIKI. The Hippeastrum papillio that I got in August 2002 Bx3 from Cathy Craig started to open NewYear's eve. New year's day it was fully open and a 2nd bloom was begining to show. Today I noticed a new flower spike. Thank you, Cathy; they really are magnicficent. Those are below the other Hippeastrum papillios. In the view 4 lower left background is a clump of Bomarea flowers. Not sure what species but they are from Telos. A somewhat better picture is near the bottom of the Bomarea page. Liz Waterman ** http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Hippeastrum http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Bomarea * * From susanann@sbcglobal.net Mon Jan 9 20:26:06 2006 Message-Id: From: Susan Hayek Subject: Liz's photos posted Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:27:27 -0800 The URLs for Liz's photos are, Hippeastrum: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Hippeastrum and Bomarea: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Bomarea Photo files are moved around a bit, so individual photo file URLs are not always accessible as originally posted. thanks. s. >I've posted some photos to the WIKI. >The Hippeastrum papillio that I got in August 2002 Bx3 from Cathy Craig >started to open NewYear's eve. New year's day it was fully open and a >2nd bloom was begining to show. Today I noticed a new flower spike. >Thank you, Cathy; they really are magnicficent. Those are below the >other Hippeastrum papillios. >In the view 4 lower left background is a clump of Bomarea flowers. Not >sure what species but they are from Telos. A somewhat better picture is >near the bottom of the Bomarea page. >Liz Waterman > > >** >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Hippeastrum > >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Bomarea >* >* > -- susan hayek, North Coast of CA, USA, zone 9b, Sunset zone 17. 15 miles south of Eureka, CA, overlooking the Eel River, with a peek of the ocean. From lwallpe@juno.com Mon Jan 9 20:41:38 2006 Message-Id: <20060109.174001.20619.346492@webmail26.lax.untd.com> From: "lwallpe@juno.com" Subject: Birds as predators Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:39:09 GMT Jane - Thank you for this information. I've never noticed them pulling crocus out but it could explain some losses! Linda W. ----------------- From: Jane McGary .., "Eastern (formerly Rufous) Towhee scratches in leaf litter like a chicken looking for insects,nuts and seeds" And also looking for CROCUSES, which they pull up to eat the corms. ___________________________________________________________________ Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today! From john@johnlonsdale.net Mon Jan 9 23:07:06 2006 Message-Id: <000001c6159b$3eba51b0$6601a8c0@DIMENSION8100> From: "John T Lonsdale" Subject: Update to The Lonsdale Garden web site Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 23:06:33 -0500 I have just added 830 new images of 245 taxa to my web site (http://www.edgewoodgardens.net). Please use http://tinyurl.com/d2u33 to go directly to the image gallery.  There is something of interest to members of all the lists included in the distribution, hence the cross posting.  Photographs were taken in the garden here during 2005 and early 2006.  Updates were rather tardy last year but after this monster session I vow never to let the numbers build up again – the images I uploaded were processed after culling over 3500 images.  The new images have been incorporated into the correct sections of the ‘Plant Galleries’ and can also be found using the ‘Search’ or ‘What’s New’ functions on each page of the album.  Additionally I’ve updated the ‘Garden Galleries’ section with some general garden views, mainly taken in spring and fall of 2005. When I started the web site in 2002 I chose a resolution of 640 x 480 pixels for the larger pictures accessed through 200 x 150 pixel thumbnails.  This decision was made in consideration of the constraints imposed by monitor sizes and download speeds and was a good compromise at the time.  Nearly 4 years later, average monitor sizes have increased, as have download speeds, and thus I’ve increased the size of the larger images to 800 x 600 pixels.  The file sizes are around 50% larger.  If anyone is interested in color management, I use Adobe RGB (1988) as my working and monitor workspaces. Over the past year a number of folks, particularly Thomas Huber, Mark McDonough and Jim McKenney, have made very helpful comments about nomenclatural issues, my misidentification of certain plants, and typos in filenames etc.  I’ve fixed these and also a bunch of others I came across along the way.  It was very satisfying to make sweeping nomenclatural changes! Please do continue to let me know if you find anything out of order. As requested, I have included below a simple list of the plants featured, to allow them to be searchable in archives.  Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks, J. Adiantum pedatum Arisaema triphyllum Athyrium nipponicum Bloomeria humilis DC Brodiaea coronaria DC Caloscordum neriniflorum Colchicum baytopiorum Colchicum cupanii ssp. pulverulentum PB324 Colchicum macrophyllum Cornus kousa Wolf Eyes Corydalis solida Crocus asumaniae Crocus asumaniae HS2243 Crocus banaticus Crocus banaticus JR Crocus baytopiorum Crocus biflorus ssp. alexandri Drama Greece Crocus biflorus ssp. isauricus S0416 Ermesen Gec Turkey Crocus biflorus ssp. March.jpg Crocus biflorus ssp. melantherus KKK3 Sparta Tripolis Crocus boryi Crocus cambesedessii St. Elmo Crocus cambesedessii P9102 Crocus cancellatus ssp. cancellatus LB402 Crocus cancellatus ssp. damascenus Gaizantep Crocus cancellatus ssp. damascenus L99 Crocus cancellatus ssp. damascenus WK01 Crocus cancellatus ssp. lycius NS Crocus cancellatus ssp. lycius S0421 Crocus cancellatus ssp. mazziaricus KKK25 Crocus cancellatus ssp. mazziaricus NS Crocus cancellatus ssp. mazziaricus Zweevic Crocus cancellatus ssp. pamphylicus FS3.jpg Crocus cancellatus ssp. pamphylicus FS5.jpg Crocus cancellatus ssp. pamphylicus S0401 Crocus cancellatus ssp. pamphylicus S5.jpg Crocus cartwrightianus albus Crocus cartwrightianus MS 5117 Crocus caspius (leitchlinii) Crocus caspius ex. P. Furse Crocus caspius JTL02 Crocus caspius PF5035_6 Crocus caspius Webster Crocus chrysanthus Crocus chrysanthus Sunspot Crocus etruscus Rosalind Crocus gilanicus Crocus gilanicus ex Wendelbo Suirdelpur Iran Crocus goulimyi ssp. goulimyi Crocus goulimyi ssp. goulimyi long tube Crocus goulimyi ssp. goulimyi Mani White Crocus goulimyi ssp. leucanthus AG Crocus goulimyi ssp. leucanthus AN Crocus hadriaticus (boryi CEH582) Crocus hadriaticus SBL438 Mt. Souliou Crocus hadriaticus ssp. parnassicus MH Crocus hermoneus LB308 Crocus heuffelianus National Park Crocus korolkowii Spring Cocktail Crocus kotschyanus ACW2413 Crocus laevigatus HC4774 Crocus laevigatus P9420 Crocus laevigatus SBL348 Crocus laevigatus SL165 Crocus longiflorus Crocus longiflorus ex Malta Crocus longiflorus JMcG Crocus mathewii Crocus medius NS Crocus niveus Crocus nudiflorus Crocus ochroleucus JCA0.349.2jpg Crocus pallasii TW Crocus pallasii (aleppicus) VP Crocus pallasii ssp. dispathaceus JKP98-122 Crocus pallasii ssp. pallasii LB380 Crocus pallasii ssp. pallasii PB414 Mt. Lazarus Samos Crocus pulchellus (biflorus ssp. alexandrii) S0220 Mt. Falakro Crocus pulchellus Michael Hoog Crocus pulchellus PB337 Evvia Greece Crocus pulchellus S0238 Crocus pulchellus var. albus Crocus reticulatus x angustifolius Ego Crocus robertianus NS Crocus sativus Crocus serotinus ssp. salzmannii (carpetanus) JCA0.342.609 Crocus serotinus ssp. salzmannii ABS4411 Crocus serotinus ssp. salzmannii ABS4411 Crocus serotinus ssp. salzmannii El Torcal Crocus serotinus ssp. salzmannii SBL213 Crocus serotinus ssp. salzmannii VH556 AG Crocus serotinus ssp. serotinus SF227 Crocus serotinus ssp. serotinus SF237 Crocus sieberi Cretan Snow Crocus sp. Crocus sp. annulate S0432 Ak Dag Kizilcaboluk Turkey Crocus sp. March.jpg Crocus speciosus Crocus speciosus (chrysanthus) LB488 Crocus speciosus DS Dokuzdolanbac Crocus speciosus ssp. xantholaimos IY Crocus speciosus ssp. xantholaimos MPR7927 Crocus speciosus x pulchellus Crocus vallicola Artvin WK02 Crocus veneris PB1811 Paphos Cyprus Crocus vernus Crocus vernus Drina Marvel Crocus wattiorum HKEP9548 Crocus x paulinae Cyclamen colchicum Cyclamen cyprium Cyclamen elegans silver leaf Cyclamen graecum ssp. anatolicum Rhodes form Cyclamen hederifolium Cyclamen intaminatum Cyclamen mirabile Cyclamen mirabile Tilebarn Jan Cyclamen persicum Cyclamen pseudibericum Cyclamen purpurascens Cypripedium parviflorum ssp. pubescens Daphne x eschmannii Delphinium tricorne Dicentra cuccularia Dicentra King of Hearts Dicentra peregrina alba Dichelostemma multiflorum MSI Disporum maculatum Disporum sp. China Disporum sp. China (cantoniense) Dodecatheon amethystinum Dodecatheon meadia Dysosma veitchii Echinocereus reichenbachii Epimedium brachyrrhizum Karen Epimedium lishihchenii Epimedium sp. Eranthis ex Gothenburg BG Eranthis hyemalis Eranthis Noll Ayers Eranthis stellata Eranthis unknown double Eranthis x tubergenii Erythronium garden hybrid Erythronium hendersonii Erythronium Pagoda Erythronium revolutum Erythronium rostratum Erythronium sp. Fothergilla gardenii Blue Mist Fothergilla major Fritillaria camschatcensis Fritillaria elwesii Fritillaria meleagroides Fritillaria thunbergii Galanthus nivalis Galax aphylla Watnong Geranium maculatum album Helleborus x hybridus Hepatica acutiloba Hepatica americana marbled leaves Hepatica asiatica v. japonica f. magna Hepatica nobilis Hepatica sp. marbled leaves Heuchera sp. SC Hyacinthoides non-scripta Hydrangea quercifolia fall color Ipheion recurvifolium Ipheion Rolf Fiedler Iris albicans Iris anguifuga Iris cycloglossa Iris ensata Iris henryi Iris hoogiana alba Iris innominata Iris koreana Iris Lady Beatrix Stanley Iris reticulata Iris schachtii OFS Iris setosa Iris suaveolens var. rubromarginata Iris thompsonii Iris verna Isopyrum biternatum Leucojum valentinum Leucojum vernum Lewisia rediviva Lewisia rediviva var. minor Lilium formosanum var. pricei Lilium sp. China Lycopodium sp. Magnolia Golden Endeavor Maianthemum racemosum Mertensia virginica variegated clones Muscari macrocarpum Narcissus cyclamineus Narcissus fernandesii Narcissus humilis ssp. humilis SL450 Narcissus serotinus Paeonia delavayi Paeonia mlokosewitchii Paeonia rockii Paeonia Sonoma Sun Phlox divaricata Phlox divaricata alba Phlox pilosa Phlox sp. Phlox sp. Arkansas Phlox stolonifera Primula sieboldii Pulsatilla in seed Pulsatilla rubra Pulsatilla sp. Pulsatilla vulgaris Rhododendron atlanticum Rhododendron atlanticum Snowbird Rhododendron austrinum Rhododendron bakeri Rhododendron calendulaceum Rhododendron vaseyi Rosa sp. DH Sanguinaria canadensis Scilla lingulata SF288 Scilla lingulata var. ciliolata Silene virginiana Sternbergia colchiciflora Sternbergia greuteriana JMcG Sternbergia lutea Sternbergia sicula Sternbergia sicula Crete RRW Sternbergia sicula ssp. angustifolia JMcG Sternbergia sicula var. graeca JMcG Thalictrum orientale Tiarella sp. SC Triteleia bridgesii Triteleia hyacinthina Triteleia hyacinthina DC Triteleia hyacinthina MSI Triteleia ixioides Tiger Triteleia laxa (Nimia) NNS Tritonia securigera JH Tulipa hissarica Tulipa vvedenskyi x T. berkariense Morning Star Uvularia grandiflora Uvularia sp. Viola pedata John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From leo@possi.org Mon Jan 9 23:52:09 2006 Message-Id: <55535.12.65.120.28.1136868727.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: How cold was Amsterdam? Egypt? What means "decimate?" Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:52:07 -0700 (MST) Hello Albert, > There is evidence in ancient sources that the classic > world was colder Not just ancient. How many of you have seen reproductions (or originals if you're lucky) of Dutch masters' paintings from the 1600s of people ice skating on the (then-new) canals of Amsterdam? Perhaps somebody on this list from the Low Countries can tell us when these canals last froze. > how could they produce beer in Egypt?, You probably mean in Pharaonic times - Well, Egypt is a very large country north to south. From what I read, Cairo now seems to have a climate very much like Phoenix, where I live. It is easily cool enough here to brew beer during the winter. Inside a building with thick mud walls, the beer-brewing season here probably would extend from October to April or longer. My brother went to university in Tucson (110 miles / 185km southeast of Phoenix, and 1000 feet / 300m higher in elevation) and he put his brewing carboy outside in the winter. That beer was really good - but, then, what beer isn't? > Of course there were no potatoes in that period. What I think Alberto is referring to... Europe has not many native sources of starch for food. The native grains (for example, spelt and barley) have low yields per hectare and are difficult to harvest and process. Maize / corn from the New World doesn't or didn't grow well in cold Europe, and wasn't there until after Columbus. The Andean region has many interesting tuberous plants, grown for food by the native peoples. The potato came from the Quechua-speaking empire centrered in what is now Peru. It is a high-altitude Andean native, accustomed to short cold summers. It grows easily, is easy to harvest, and easy to process into a form that stores for a long time. The potato is very productive in calories per acre compared to what was in Europe at the time. I have read that some sociologists think the expansion of the population in Europe in the 1500s-1600s was due to the introduction of the potato. Many more people could be fed from the same land compared to what was possible with spelt. When a potato disease destroyed the crop in Ireland, there was mass starvation, as well as a mass migration of Irish to the United States in the mid-1800s. > After this hot dry 2005 I am most alarmed at the performance of our > irids > in cultivation as mentioned in my previous one. No doubt wild plants, > subject to more severe stress, must have responded likewise. Our deserts here in the Southwest of the USA have had very irregular rainfall for at least many thousands of years. This is known from studying rings in old logs and trees. Last winter we had almost the largest rainfall on record. Wildflowers bloomed that are almost never seen, and it was the best display in living memory. This winter - we have had no rain of significance since late summer, August. And no signs of rain on the way. Wildflowers this winter and spring are doubtful. We don't have any irids here, but we have Dichelostemma pulchellum. It only blooms in the spring after a winter of very good rains, which means about once every 10-15 years. I wish you could have seen it last March! Another person wrote > One theory is that of the 400,000 man > army Napoleon used to invade Russia, barely 1% survived > to return to France having been decimated by an unusually > cold period of weather "Decimated" has become one of the most misused words in English. It is from Latin and means "one in ten killed." A poorly-performing company in the Roman army might have been decimated by commanders as punishment. 1% survived means 99 in 100 died. This is a lot worse than 1 in 10. The louse-spread diseases spread much more easily when weather is very cold and people huddle together to keep warm. So, the cold weather did contribute. The cold weather and snow made normal movement impossible. Everything took ten or twenty times longer than expected. Military campaigns depend on the supply line. Old Man Winter cut the supply line of the French army and pinned it down. The Russians, accustomed to cold and snow, harried the French endlessly. The lice just finished the job. Old Man Winter saved Moscow and Leningrad from Hitler, as well. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From hilary@ingascony.com Tue Jan 10 04:43:49 2006 Message-Id: <000d01c615d3$23ac1240$0300a8c0@shimmer> From: "Hilary Nightingale" Subject: Pasteur born after the Napoleonic Wars; was RE: OT? Global Warming Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:46:40 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dell Sherk" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:26 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Pasteur born after the Napoleonic Wars;was RE: OT? Global Warming > Napoleon III couldn't have come up with the idea of asking Pasteur on his > own. Must have been an advisor. N III, the old goat, was busy making love to > keep the world sparkling. I've read that Napoleon III, apart from loving his fellow women, also showed his love for his fellow man in the sense that he was a philanthropist and actually very socially aware. He instigated the planting of pines across the vast and very poor area known as les Landes in SW France, founding a rich and successful forestry industry which halted the exodus from the area and still thrives today. He also, apparently, was instrumental in the layout of Paris as we know it today. I've been hunting for the link to the article that I read a while ago (in French), but unfortunately have been unable to find it as yet. There is also a society who maintain that N III was much maligned and feel that he was much undervalued and misunderstood as he had ideas of democracy etc far ahead of his time.... Hilary Nightingale in SUNNY Gascony, SW France (this is the first sun we have seen for days - or should that be weeks......?) From IntarsiaCo@aol.com Tue Jan 10 05:57:41 2006 Message-Id: <105.6fbf49d9.30f4ed1e@aol.com> From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com Subject: Lice, Weather, Napoleon, Minard's chart, Tufte Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 05:57:34 EST In a message dated 1/9/2006 11:52:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, leo@possi.org writes: The louse-spread diseases spread much more easily when weather is very cold and people huddle together to keep warm. So, the cold weather did contribute. Napoleon had lost almost 65% of his half million member invasion force by September 7 (Battle of Borodino), prior to the cold weather setting in. Anyone who has been in the armed forces knows that soldiers are continually in close proximity to other soldiers, cold weather was not a significant factor in the spread of louse vectored diseases during the 1812 campaign. See Minard's famous statistical graphic chart in Tufte's first book or on the web at: http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/posters Mark Mazer Intarsia Ltd. Gaylordsville, Connecticut 06755-0142 USA From amburrell@ag.tamu.edu Tue Jan 10 09:47:14 2006 Message-Id: <43C3747502000004000A5B8B@ag.tamu.edu> From: "Millie Burrell" Subject: Address for BX request please Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:46:45 -0600 Either I am totally lost (highly probable) or I can't find the address to send seeds and bulbs for a bulb exchange--even though Dell has sent it to me before. But I do have some goodies to send if I can get an address.... Cheers and happy new year to you all. Millie From msittner@mcn.org Tue Jan 10 10:34:42 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060110072318.035e9cf0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Off Topic Messages Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:34:23 -0800 Hi everyone, I realize that it is very difficult to herd cats and that there are a lot of people on this list who like that we have been permissive about what is allowed in our discussions so if I tried to bring the messages back to bulbs there would be an outcry from some of you as there was when someone questioned an off topic message not too long ago. At the very least please put Off Topic in the beginning of your message so those people who are not interested can quickly delete the message and please do not include the previous message in your response so that digest subscribers do not have to plod through multiple repeated messages to find messages they want to read. Mary Sue PBS List Administrator and unsuccessful cat herder From c-mueller@tamu.edu Tue Jan 10 11:11:37 2006 Message-Id: <43C3872202000008000DA3CD@ag.tamu.edu> From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: Off Topic Messages Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:06:26 -0600 Mary Sue recently wrote, "I realize that it is very difficult to herd cats and that there are a lot of people on this list who like that we have been permissive about what is allowed in our discussions so if I tried to bring the messages back to bulbs there would be an outcry from some of you as there was when someone questioned an off topic message not too long ago.".... I usually enjoy the occasional digressions....as long as the conversant is not droning on and on....or is grinding their ax....it can be considered as peripheral interesting conversation from like-minded people on the list. Perhaps we all can use a little brushing up on the term 'decimation' or which Napoleon did what. Can't hurt. Cynthia Mueller From dells@voicenet.com Tue Jan 10 11:51:08 2006 Message-Id: <200601101651.k0AGp4n1015705@voicenet.com> From: Subject: Address for BX request please Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 11:51:04 -0500 (EST) Dell Sherk PO Box 429 New Hope, PA 18938 On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:46:45 -0600, "Millie Burrell" wrote : > Either I am totally lost (highly probable) or I can't find the address > to send seeds and bulbs for a bulb exchange--even though Dell has sent > it to me before. But I do have some goodies to send if I can get an > address.... > > Cheers and happy new year to you all. Millie > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > From bklehm@comcast.net Tue Jan 10 13:32:10 2006 Message-Id: <9bbd7aaec9709161b4ab03d6baf353ba@comcast.net> From: Brook Klehm Subject: Lobelia laxiflora, was Syphilantha Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:32:06 -0800 Hello, I keep telling myself that I'll keep up to date in reading the postings... Lobelia laxiflora is in the trade in California and I've seen it listed in the Pacific Northwest as well. However, the selection in the trade is L. laxiflora angustifolia. The flowers are the same as those pictured, but the foliage is lanceolate. And the internodes are short. In my garden, it grew to 30" (70cm?) tall and bloomed late spring to mid summer. It is rhizomatous and will spread far in time. I've seen it growing through a hedge and becoming an ineradicable element in the garden (read: weed). I've been told that it blooms non-stop in barely irrigated sand in San Diego. The stems are frost sensitive in wet, Northern California winters, though the roots seem hardy. I've seen the form listed in the Plant Delights catalog while traveling in southern Mexico, but never the selection that is in the trade. I have trouble imagining the lanky form in a garden, but it might settle into a casual, "wild" garden attractively. Brook From dkramb@badbear.com Tue Jan 10 20:32:19 2006 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20060110203128.01b31ec0@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Lobelia laxiflora, was Syphilantha Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 20:32:30 -0500 At 01:32 PM 1/10/2006, you wrote: >trade. I have trouble imagining the lanky form in a garden, but it >might settle into a casual, "wild" garden attractively. You just perfectly described my garden..... casual "wild". So it's a good thing I have a fondness for native wildflowers. I don't expect the Lobelia laxiflora to be hardy here, but I want to give it a try. Dennis in Cincinnati From ConroeJoe@aol.com Wed Jan 11 18:49:41 2006 Message-Id: <19f.43b64aa6.30f6f391@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Mailing Bulbs Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 18:49:37 EST Hi Gang, Two points: 1. I think the last 2 Lycoris deliveries will go out tomorrow. So, if you don't have a delivery by Monday or so, let me know and I'll make it right. 2. From all the notes I've received, I've determined that a Priority Mail stamp means delivery within 2-6 days. One week I dropped off packages at the mailroom on Monday, and folks received their bulbs Friday or Saturday. The mail room takes the items to the local Post Office every day around 4:30 p.m. So, the Post Office would have items before the late pickup. When I send a first class letter to a nearby town, it is typically delivered the next day (even Dallas, about 200 miles away). But, it takes from Monday night till Friday or Saturday for many Priority Mail deliveries. Maybe things have been slowed down for US postal deliveries since 9-11. Or maybe it has always taken about 4-6 days to deliver a Priority Mail package across country. Cordially, Conroe Joe From ConroeJoe@aol.com Wed Jan 11 20:35:32 2006 Message-Id: <80.3662d029.30f70c5d@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Rain Lilies Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:35:25 EST Hi Gang, In addition to Crinum, I am fond of rain lilies. Many or most of these plants seem tolerant of too much year-round rain, hot and humid summers, and some mild to medium frosts in winter. They seem ideal for the Gulf Coast of Texas. I am looking to arrange seed trades this coming year. Each year I have zillions of seeds of Cooperia pedunculata and Z. chlorosolen to trade (take your pick on synonyms). Additionally, I have innumerable seeds of what I think it H. robustus (pick your synonyms). The C. pedunculata and Z. chlorosolen seeds are from wild-collected, roadside plants in Central or Eastern Texas. Anyway, if you are interested in trading seeds please write to me as the season advances, or if you are in the Southern Hemisphere, perhaps your plants are already in seed. I may have small amounts of other types of rainlily seeds to trade. I'm especially interested to obtain seed from Central or South American rainlily plants or garden hybrids of known background (or just pretty). I think C. pedunculata produces a prettier flower, but Z chlorosolen is such a carefree fall bloomer that I think it is a better garden plant. LINK: C. pedunculata http://www.sbs.utexas.edu/mbierner/bio406d/images/pics/ama/cooperia_pedunculata.htm LINK: Z. chlorosolen (note the long floral tube, 4-5 inches) http://efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=41526&flora_id=1 Cordially, Conroe Joe P.S. One reason I grow rainlilies is that they are so happy to live in 1-, 3- or 5-gallon pots. I can even tuck them in around the base of large specimen agaves and palms in pots. Rainlilies don't seem to require special soils and some seem to bloom better if in spare soils. They tolerate too much sun, not enough sun, irregular watering, regular watering, and even hot sun baking the sides of containers. I don't know if they are hardy in zone 8 or colder, but they seem happy to accept frosts in the greater Houston area. From dells@voicenet.com Thu Jan 12 06:38:59 2006 Message-Id: <20060112113859.6AE8D4C00E@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Rain Lilies Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 06:39:06 -0500 Dear Joe, Don't hesitate to donate some of those zillions of seeds to the BX! Best wishes, Dell -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of ConroeJoe@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:35 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Rain Lilies Hi Gang, In addition to Crinum, I am fond of rain lilies. Many or most of these plants seem tolerant of too much year-round rain, hot and humid summers, and some mild to medium frosts in winter. They seem ideal for the Gulf Coast of Texas. I am looking to arrange seed trades this coming year. Each year I have zillions of seeds of Cooperia pedunculata and Z. chlorosolen to trade (take your pick on synonyms). Additionally, I have innumerable seeds of what I think it H. robustus (pick your synonyms). The C. pedunculata and Z. chlorosolen seeds are from wild-collected, roadside plants in Central or Eastern Texas. Anyway, if you are interested in trading seeds please write to me as the season advances, or if you are in the Southern Hemisphere, perhaps your plants are already in seed. I may have small amounts of other types of rainlily seeds to trade. I'm especially interested to obtain seed from Central or South American rainlily plants or garden hybrids of known background (or just pretty). I think C. pedunculata produces a prettier flower, but Z chlorosolen is such a carefree fall bloomer that I think it is a better garden plant. LINK: C. pedunculata http://www.sbs.utexas.edu/mbierner/bio406d/images/pics/ama/cooperia_peduncul ata.htm LINK: Z. chlorosolen (note the long floral tube, 4-5 inches) http://efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=41526&flora_id=1 Cordially, Conroe Joe P.S. One reason I grow rainlilies is that they are so happy to live in 1-, 3- or 5-gallon pots. I can even tuck them in around the base of large specimen agaves and palms in pots. Rainlilies don't seem to require special soils and some seem to bloom better if in spare soils. They tolerate too much sun, not enough sun, irregular watering, regular watering, and even hot sun baking the sides of containers. I don't know if they are hardy in zone 8 or colder, but they seem happy to accept frosts in the greater Houston area. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From dells@voicenet.com Thu Jan 12 06:42:21 2006 Message-Id: <20060112114221.856D44C00E@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Mailing Bulbs Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 06:42:27 -0500 Joe, I think that when they first started Priority Mail, they "guaranteed" three day delivery, but now the say "usually arrives in three days." Who knows? Dell -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of ConroeJoe@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 6:50 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Mailing Bulbs Hi Gang, Two points: 1. I think the last 2 Lycoris deliveries will go out tomorrow. So, if you don't have a delivery by Monday or so, let me know and I'll make it right. 2. From all the notes I've received, I've determined that a Priority Mail stamp means delivery within 2-6 days. One week I dropped off packages at the mailroom on Monday, and folks received their bulbs Friday or Saturday. The mail room takes the items to the local Post Office every day around 4:30 p.m. So, the Post Office would have items before the late pickup. When I send a first class letter to a nearby town, it is typically delivered the next day (even Dallas, about 200 miles away). But, it takes from Monday night till Friday or Saturday for many Priority Mail deliveries. Maybe things have been slowed down for US postal deliveries since 9-11. Or maybe it has always taken about 4-6 days to deliver a Priority Mail package across country. Cordially, Conroe Joe _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Thu Jan 12 11:18:40 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060112075520.033dd6b0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Using Wiki pictures Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 08:18:29 -0800 Hi, We got a request today to use some of our wiki pictures. I am getting more and more requests from people to use my photos from the wiki. If anyone contacts me about using any of the photos of anyone else, I will contact that person privately and he or she can decide whether or not to let that person use them. Occasionally someone offers to pay a small amount or will give credit. It is nice that people are asking. We recently also got a request to use our pictures in wikipedia. I wrote back that they were not in the public domain. The request for these pictures was to be used for the Plant Of The Week for the SANBI website (www.sanbi.org) January features 3 bulbs out of the four plants profiled: Agapanthus campanulatus, Watsonia canaliculata, and Clivia nobilis. I thought some of you might be interested in this. Here is the link: http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantoftheweek/plantweekmaxframwits.htm Mary Sue From leo@possi.org Thu Jan 12 13:03:27 2006 Message-Id: <55738.12.65.127.208.1137089005.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Mailing Bulbs Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:03:25 -0700 (MST) ConroeJoe noted > 2. ...I've determined that a Priority Mail > stamp means delivery within 2-6 days. The Wall Street Journal did a test about two years ago. They mailed letters and packages from several post offices all over the country to several destinations using irst-class and Priority Mail. The first-class letters and packages arrived well before the Priority Mail in almost every case. First-class typically took 3 days all the way across the country and 1 day if close to the originating post office. So, if your package meets 1st class criteria, always send it 1st class rather than Priority Mail. I can't recall the exact criteria but they include being under a certain weight. You can find out at the USPS Web site. Leo From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Thu Jan 12 15:50:54 2006 Message-Id: <3c874500d4904979c6f7f26280c3de2b@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Using Wiki pictures Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 12:50:53 -0800 I think another possibility is to tell the requestor to contact the owner of the photos directly. I was contacted directly about some of my photos that they found on the PBS wiki, and whether I was willing to give them permission to use them. When I asked, they explained to me what they wanted to use them for. I thought it was a very reasonable request. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a On Jan 12, 2006, at 8:18 AM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > We got a request today to use some of our wiki pictures. I am getting > more > and more requests from people to use my photos from the wiki. If anyone > contacts me about using any of the photos of anyone else, I will > contact > that person privately and he or she can decide whether or not to let > that > person use them. Occasionally someone offers to pay a small amount or > will > give credit. It is nice that people are asking. We recently also got > a > request to use our pictures in wikipedia. I wrote back that they were > not > in the public domain. From jimmckenney@starpower.net Thu Jan 12 16:58:28 2006 Message-Id: <4k6l9v$4hsdaa@smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Who's waiting for spring? Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 16:58:24 -0500 The unseasonably warm weather continues: Crocus 'Uschak Orange' came into bloom today, and the first Galanthus elwesii appeared on the lawn. Hamamelis 'Pallida' is also blooming. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where I think I also see the buds of red maples swelling. From lizwat@earthlink.net Thu Jan 12 18:05:32 2006 Message-Id: <43C6E0C3.5070904@earthlink.net> From: Liz Waterman Subject: underground pest control Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 15:05:39 -0800 From dells@voicenet.com Thu Jan 12 19:13:45 2006 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 113 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:12:42 -0500 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by people from all over the world, to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 113" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (cash, check, or Paypal ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: .... Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com . If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 429, New Hope, PA, 18938, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER.. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! Note: most of the supplies for this offering are very limited. From Joyce Miller: CORMS/BULBS: 1. Nerine filifolia 2. Moraea marlotthii 3. Moraea lurida 4. Moraea sp.? lavender-violet with white spots 5. Romulea tetragona 6. Romulea crocea 7. Romulea linaresii From the PBS: SEED: 8. Babiana patula 9. Geissorhiza inflexa 10. Geissorhiza ovata 11. Gladiolus liliaceus 12. Gladiolus longicollis 13. Gladiolus abbreviatus 14. Moraea ramosissima 15. Moraea elegans From Marie-Paule Opdenakker: 16. Rhizomes of Hermodactylus tuberosa 17. Bulbs of Narcissus triandrus 'Thalia' 18. Bulbs of Tulipa 'Bleu Aimable,' single, late-flowering Thank you, Joyce and Marie-Paule !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From ConroeJoe@aol.com Thu Jan 12 19:27:11 2006 Message-Id: <154.5f679ed8.30f84dd3@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Donate Seeds Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:26:59 EST In a message dated 1/12/2006 11:03:22 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dell writes "Don't hesitate to donate some of those zillions of seeds to the BX!" Hi Dell and Gang, OK, my pleasure. I'll take you up on your offer to find homes for things as I get various seeds this year. This year I hope to collect bulbs or seeds of Herbertia lahue; I think some regard the plants as supspecies cerula. In past years I have found colonies being dug up by bull dozers. I haven't visited the growing areas for a while but it would be fun to find new homes for soon-to-be-doomed Herbertia lahue. Conroe Joe From dkramb@badbear.com Thu Jan 12 19:54:55 2006 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20060112195148.01ccddf8@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Donate Seeds Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:55:12 -0500 >This year I hope to collect bulbs or seeds of Herbertia lahue; I think some >regard the plants as supspecies cerula. In past years I have found colonies >being dug up by bull dozers. I haven't visited the growing areas for a >while >but it would be fun to find new homes for soon-to-be-doomed Herbertia lahue. I know a Dallas area resident & iris fanatic that could give them a happy home! He provides me with Alophias & Sisyrinchiums & such, and I'm sure he grows Herbertia too. (He actually has a North American Native Iris website.) If you do get some, I would like to put him in touch with you. Dennis in Cincinnati From msittner@mcn.org Thu Jan 12 20:33:39 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060112173245.033a1328@mail.mcn.org> From: Liz Waterman (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: underground pest control Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:33:31 -0800 *Hi,* *I thought I'd pass along this information to some people with gopher problems. I came across this in a CRFG (California Rare Fruit Growers) newsletter and it sounds like a method that might be useful for some people with gopher, or similiar problems. Liz ** * *UNDERGROUND EXTERMINATOR* ­ Manning Products, P.O. Box 995, Duluth,Georgia 30096 http://www.undergroundexterm.com/gopher_extermination.html This is a gopher, mole, vole burrow fumigation device. It is a rubber coupling device that connects the tail pipe of your vehicle to a garden hose. You turn on you vehicle and pump carbon monoxide (car exhaust) via the garden hose into a pest’s burrow. A CRFG member from Watsonville reported using it with success. *It can be ordered online and delivered to a local store; Ace or other) http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1276044&cp&kw=7094147 * From dells@voicenet.com Fri Jan 13 06:36:23 2006 Message-Id: <20060113113623.7792C4C013@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 113 CLOSED Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:36:30 -0500 Small supplies go quickly! Packages should go out after the weekend. Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Fri Jan 13 10:30:05 2006 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A0182C472@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: OT - Request for your thoughts Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:30:57 -0600 Dear All: Apologies for an off-topic thread. The Chicago Botanic Garden teamed up with the American Public Gardens Association and the University of Kansas Biodiversity Research Center and Natural History Museum to create the ability for members of scientific and garden enthusiasts to search (on the WWW) the plant record databases of the 16 institutions within the US with the best documented collections - North American Plant Collections Consortium (see below). The grant name is PlantCollections - A Community Solution. The project is funded through the Institute of Museum and Library Services National Leadership program in the Building Digital Resources category. The grant will take 3 years to complete and is limited (at this time) to institutions within the US (by the funding source). We are using a distributed query approach developed at KU called Distributed Generic Information Retrieval (DiGIR) that will permit each institution to maintain control of the information they serve up to the internet portal. We are in the early stages of the grant and are currently conducting audience surveys to determine which fields of data different audiences would be interested in. Conceptually we could offer data related to the climate of each botanic garden, the environmental characteristics of the sites where we collect plants and education/public information about taxa in general (not linked to an accession record). I anticipate our audiences will want to access images as well as create maps. We currently have too many proposed fields to offer and need to narrow them down. To do that, and not eliminate the wrong fields we have contacted representatives of 8 audiences (see below). The members of the PBS listserve will be audience number 9. Actually collectively you all fit into one or more categories of the original 8 audiences. As plant enthusiasts and members of the PBS listserve you all are familiar with what is available, and what you wish were available on the Internet. I would appreciate your sharing your thoughts with me PRIVATELY - . I will be collating audience surveys next week. The participating institutions are: Arnold Arboretum of Harvard University Chicago Botanic Garden Highstead Arboretum The Huntington Botanic Garden Landis Arborteum Ganna Walska Lotusland Missouri Botanical Garden The Morton Arboretum Mt. Cuba Center, Inc. Norfolk Botanic Garden North Carolina Arboretum San Francisco Botanical Garden Santa Barbara Botanic Garden Scott Arboretum of Smith College U.S. National Arboretum University of Washington Botanic Garden (used to be Washington Park Arboretum) The eight audiences to be served by the portal are: Curatorial - botanic garden staff Taxonomic/taxonomists Conservation scientists Weed Science Ecology/ecologists Horticulture/horticulturists Education/educators/students Visitors/plant enthusiasts Many thanks, Boyce Tankersley Project Director PlantCollections - A Community Solution Manager of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel 847-835-6841 fax 847-835-1635 email btankers@chicagobotanic.org From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Jan 13 15:43:17 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20060113104337.010e40a0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Iris cristata Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:43:53 -0800 The cover subject for the spring 2006 issue of the Rock Garden Quarterly will be Iris cristata. I searched the archives for an appropriate article to reprint and found nothing except a 1982 piece by Roy Davidson, which is mostly devoted to comparing the species with other crested irises. Would someone like to write up a current view of Iris cristata, with mention of the cultivars now available? Davidson mentions 'White Pearl', 'McDonald', 'Millard', 'Whisper', 'Crested Ivory', 'Skylands', 'Crested Fairy', 'Gold Crest', and "Abbeys Violet' as having been grown. I remember seeing the last named. Are any of the others still in gardens? Are there new ones now in commerce? Perhaps one of you can write about these, or direct me to someone who can? Thanks much, Jane McGary Editor, NARGS From pbender@premier1.net Fri Jan 13 14:44:43 2006 Message-Id: From: Patricia Bender Subject: New E-mail address Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 11:49:07 -0800 I have a new E-mail address: ppbender@comcast.net Pat Bender From dkramb@badbear.com Fri Jan 13 22:14:53 2006 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20060113220547.01d6eec0@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Iris cristata Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:15:16 -0500 I wrote an article for SIGNA last year about an "iris hunting" trip where I found a fabulous population of Iris cristata blooming amongst Aquilegia canadensis and Cypripedium sp. in southern Ohio. It was just a one-page article, but I included lots of great photos. My favorite was a flower that had falls that actually drooped rather than flare outwards. It reminded me of a dwarf Iris tectorum. Anyway, being in SIGNA I know quite a few folks growing (and selling) modern cultivars of Iris cristata. I'll see if I can stir up any support for your RGQ issue. If you want to use any of my photos, I'll be happy to share them. Dennis in Cincinnati From jlongane@hotmail.com Fri Jan 13 23:57:33 2006 Message-Id: From: "John Longanecker" Subject: Using Wiki pictures Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:57:31 -0800 Hello All: I was asked permission to use my Wiki photos in a wikipedia, I gave written consent to place them in the public domain and requested to see the results. In the wikipedia I am given credit for the photos and my release to the public domain is also presented. When I began putting photos on the Wiki pages, I did so with the idea that they are essentially in the public domain whether I officially release them or not. Wet and mild; repotting lily seedlings as weather permits. John Longanecker, zone 7 banana belt From darrensage100@hotmail.com Sun Jan 15 10:02:39 2006 Message-Id: From: "Darren Sage" Subject: Best bulb fertilizer Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 15:02:37 +0000 I have just picked up on this old mail. Ideally, what fertiliser ratio of NPK do people prefer? I have a lot of hippeastrum hybrids, Lilium longifolium and hybrid Gladiolus. Many thanks Darren >From: Mary Sue Ittner >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: [pbs] Tomato Fertilizer >Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 11:52:41 -0800 > >Dear All, > >A number of years ago Diana Chapman recommended tomato fertilizer as an >excellent source of fertilizer for bulbs. I believe she mentioned a ratio >of 5-10-10. Others have continued to repeat this advice. I began to look >for tomato fertilizer and never found any in the ratio she recommended. I >found huge variations in the ingredients of what was referred to as tomato >fertilizer. They were not all low in nitrogen. If Diana and I both live in >California and there is this huge difference just in our state, think how >that could be magnified around the world. I'm not sure what would be the >best common denominator when explaining what to look for. Is the ratio of >Nitrogen-Phosphorus-Potassium everywhere? > >Mary Sue > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Sun Jan 15 10:55:04 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060115074232.035b41e0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Best bulb fertilizer Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 07:54:53 -0800 Dear Darren, I'm not trying to discourage people from answering your question, but do think that when a post from the past is quoted it is helped to check the archives for the discussion that followed it: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2005-November/subject.html Tomato fertilizer is the subject to look for. I found this to be a fascinating thread, especially the confirmation that tomato fertilizers vary widely and that we cannot share cross country the ratios since NPK ratios are not internationally compatible. Specifically the post from Lee Poulsen that included Jim Lykos' post is instructive. (O.K. I concede that in this situation including the whole post saved time, but I still would rather people not do it for the sake of digest subscribers.) http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2005-November/023419.html Discussions about fertilizers are always interesting because there seems to be such a wide range of differences in what people do and what works and doesn't work so advice on what formula to use is difficult. So much depends on the plant, the climate, and the medium that plant is growing in. Mary Sue From irisman@ameritech.net Sun Jan 15 13:12:30 2006 Message-Id: <004001c619ff$12c9d590$5ad8fea9@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 36, Issue 16: Fertilizers and geophytes Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 12:11:14 -0600 Don't believe the words on the packages about what is FOR what, as in "this is FOR getting scum off of tile"; this (detergent) is FOR washing dishes, this hair shampoo is FOR your very, oh-so special hair that no other shampoo with conditioners will treat so well, etc., along with "coral calcium" all natural, not that awful synthetic chemical stuff. About 98.99% nonsense, and marketing hype. It's my experience that most plants will take what they need and do much better treated with less rather than more fertilizer. There are exceptions which are often keyed to time of year and availability of water corresponding to the plant's ability to take it up based on IT'S needs not yours. Many of the difficulties that gardeners have today is in overfeeding, overwatering, and prepaering a nice "bed' for the plant to sleep in where it promptly does just that.. goes to sleep forever. What's needed is to do one's homework and try to learn about the growing conditions of the original provenance of the plant-- assuming that one is not dealing with a Dutch garden hybrid that has been bred to live and grow under extremely artificial conditions. On another plant group's list right now, it has become apparent that Arisaema candidissimum dies readily in most people's gardens because it's overfed, overwatered, and over sheltered from the sun. If it was a kid, we'd say it was "spoiled", ie., overindulged...so it doesn't "learn" to grow roots, and furthermore, can't learn, because it's denied the opportunity. It's parents are in too much of a hurry to see the flowers, to have the kid get into a "good" school. Intellectual garbage in both places. Arisaema candidissimum does best in relatively poor sandy or clayey soil with a fair amount of bound up calcium in the form of rocks or plaster, with anywhere from 4-6 hours of direct or dappled sunlight each day. Watered from time to time at a level that is so scant that it doesn't quite kill an astilbe, where the ground can get hard as a rock. It seems to do better with coarse sand mixed into the clayey loam, and with other plants around it to perhaps take up extra moisture, or if it's on a slope. The main mistake I think, made about assessing growth requirements for arisaemas in the past has been that if the collector sees plants growing in a woodland, the assumption is made that they are shade-loving, so, this is reported andas a consquence then, they are shaded in our gardens and watered too much. But think! How long has the plant been there?. Was it as shaded when it germinated? Were the trees around it as tall, and as close together? If the plant is 25-30 years old and a really nice big one....it was probably NOT as shaded when it first grew there. If you want a nice big one--maybe you should give it some sun--and leave it alone. Don't fuss with it, disturbing its roots all the time. Water it in--make sure it gets established, but then just watch it and minister to it, don't choke it. One point of view: Adam in Glenview, IL erstwhile Zone 5a ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:00 AM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 36, Issue 16 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post: <mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive: <http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Best bulb fertilizer (Darren Sage) > 2. Re: Best bulb fertilizer (Mary Sue Ittner) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 15:02:37 +0000 > From: "Darren Sage" > Subject: [pbs] Best bulb fertilizer > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > I have just picked up on this old mail. > > Ideally, what fertiliser ratio of NPK do people prefer? I have a lot of > hippeastrum hybrids, Lilium longifolium and hybrid Gladiolus. > > Many thanks > > Darren > > > > >>From: Mary Sue Ittner >>Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >>To: Pacific Bulb Society >>Subject: [pbs] Tomato Fertilizer >>Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 11:52:41 -0800 >> >>Dear All, >> >>A number of years ago Diana Chapman recommended tomato fertilizer as an >>excellent source of fertilizer for bulbs. I believe she mentioned a ratio >>of 5-10-10. Others have continued to repeat this advice. I began to look >>for tomato fertilizer and never found any in the ratio she recommended. I >>found huge variations in the ingredients of what was referred to as tomato >>fertilizer. They were not all low in nitrogen. If Diana and I both live in >>California and there is this huge difference just in our state, think how >>that could be magnified around the world. I'm not sure what would be the >>best common denominator when explaining what to look for. Is the ratio of >>Nitrogen-Phosphorus-Potassium everywhere? >> >>Mary Sue >> >>_______________________________________________ >>pbs mailing list >>pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 07:54:53 -0800 > From: Mary Sue Ittner > Subject: Re: [pbs] Best bulb fertilizer > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20060115074232.035b41e0@mail.mcn.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Dear Darren, > > I'm not trying to discourage people from answering your question, but do > think that when a post from the past is quoted it is helped to check the > archives for the discussion that followed it: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2005-November/subject.html > > Tomato fertilizer is the subject to look for. > > I found this to be a fascinating thread, especially the confirmation that > tomato fertilizers vary widely and that we cannot share cross country the > ratios since NPK ratios are not internationally compatible. > > Specifically the post from Lee Poulsen that included Jim Lykos' post is > instructive. (O.K. I concede that in this situation including the whole > post saved time, but I still would rather people not do it for the sake of > digest subscribers.) > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2005-November/023419.html > > Discussions about fertilizers are always interesting because there seems > to > be such a wide range of differences in what people do and what works and > doesn't work so advice on what formula to use is difficult. So much > depends > on the plant, the climate, and the medium that plant is growing in. > > Mary Sue > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 36, Issue 16 > *********************************** > From theotherjen88@msn.com Sun Jan 15 14:22:48 2006 Message-Id: From: "JENNIFER HILDEBRAND" Subject: Membership Renewal Reminder Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:22:47 -0500 To our valued members, Thanks so much for your support of PBS! Some of you have been with us since the beginning, and others are only just now getting to enjoy the many benefits that PBS has to offer. As the new year begins, we wanted to issue one last reminder that it is now time to renew your membership. Most of you already have, and we appreciate your continued support. For those of you whose feet are dragging, I wanted to post a quick warning: this week Patty Colville, our membership chair, will be sending Dell Sherk, our BX director, an updated membership list. Anyone whose name does not appear on this list will be unable to participate in BX offerings until their membership is brought current. We don’t want there to be any delay in getting you the freshest seeds and bulbs, so if you haven’t had a chance to update your membership, please do so as soon as possible. Remember, if you pay by PayPal, your membership will be renewed virtually instantaneously! Happy new year! Jennifer PBS Secretary From irisman@ameritech.net Sun Jan 15 15:51:20 2006 Message-Id: <004001c61a15$3bd1abf0$5ad8fea9@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 36, Issue 15 Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:49:52 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 11:00 AM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 36, Issue 15 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post: <mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive: <http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. New E-mail address (Patricia Bender) > 2. Iris cristata (Jane McGary) > 3. Re: Iris cristata (Dennis Kramb) > 4. Re: Using Wiki pictures (John Longanecker) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 11:49:07 -0800 > From: Patricia Bender > Subject: [pbs] New E-mail address > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Cc: Pat Bender > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > I have a new E-mail address: > > ppbender@comcast.net > > Pat Bender > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:43:53 -0800 > From: Jane McGary > Subject: [pbs] Iris cristata > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20060113104337.010e40a0@mail.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > The cover subject for the spring 2006 issue of the Rock Garden Quarterly > will be Iris cristata. I searched the archives for an appropriate article > to reprint and found nothing except a 1982 piece by Roy Davidson, which is > mostly devoted to comparing the species with other crested irises. > > Would someone like to write up a current view of Iris cristata, with > mention of the cultivars now available? Davidson mentions 'White Pearl', > 'McDonald', 'Millard', 'Whisper', 'Crested Ivory', 'Skylands', 'Crested > Fairy', 'Gold Crest', and "Abbeys Violet' as having been grown. I remember > seeing the last named. Are any of the others still in gardens? Are there > new ones now in commerce? > > Perhaps one of you can write about these, or direct me to someone who can? > > Thanks much, > Jane McGary > Editor, NARGS > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:15:16 -0500 > From: Dennis Kramb > Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris cristata > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.0.20060113220547.01d6eec0@pop.bizland.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > I wrote an article for SIGNA last year about an "iris hunting" trip where > I > found a fabulous population of Iris cristata blooming amongst Aquilegia > canadensis and Cypripedium sp. in southern Ohio. It was just a one-page > article, but I included lots of great photos. My favorite was a flower > that had falls that actually drooped rather than flare outwards. It > reminded me of a dwarf Iris tectorum. > > Anyway, being in SIGNA I know quite a few folks growing (and selling) > modern cultivars of Iris cristata. I'll see if I can stir up any support > for your RGQ issue. If you want to use any of my photos, I'll be happy to > share them. > > Dennis in Cincinnati > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:57:31 -0800 > From: "John Longanecker" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Using Wiki pictures > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Hello All: > > I was asked permission to use my Wiki photos in a wikipedia, I gave > written > consent to place them in the public domain and requested to see the > results. > In the wikipedia I am given credit for the photos and my release to the > public domain is also presented. When I began putting photos on the Wiki > pages, I did so with the idea that they are essentially in the public > domain > whether I officially release them or not. > > Wet and mild; repotting lily seedlings as weather permits. > John Longanecker, > zone 7 banana belt > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 36, Issue 15 > *********************************** > From pekasky@earthlink.net Sun Jan 15 21:13:36 2006 Message-Id: <380-22006111621336147@earthlink.net> From: "Marilyn Pekasky" Subject: Membership Renewal Reminder Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:13:36 -0800 Please verify that I have already paid my dues. Thank you. > [Original Message] > From: JENNIFER HILDEBRAND > To: > Date: 1/15/2006 11:22:47 AM > Subject: [pbs] Membership Renewal Reminder > > To our valued members, > > Thanks so much for your support of PBS! Some of you have been with us since > the beginning, and others are only just now getting to enjoy the many > benefits that PBS has to offer. > > As the new year begins, we wanted to issue one last reminder that it is now > time to renew your membership. Most of you already have, and we appreciate > your continued support. > > For those of you whose feet are dragging, I wanted to post a quick warning: > this week Patty Colville, our membership chair, will be sending Dell Sherk, > our BX director, an updated membership list. Anyone whose name does not > appear on this list will be unable to participate in BX offerings until > their membership is brought current. We don’t want there to be any delay in > getting you the freshest seeds and bulbs, so if you haven’t had a chance to > update your membership, please do so as soon as possible. Remember, if you > pay by PayPal, your membership will be renewed virtually instantaneously! > > Happy new year! > Jennifer > PBS Secretary > > From extropian@optusnet.com.au Mon Jan 16 16:42:29 2006 Message-Id: <000401c61ae5$ed46a220$0301a8c0@intelpc> From: "Warren" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 36, Issue 16: Fertilizers and geophytes Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:50:58 +1100 Hello all, I've just recently joined the PBS and entered a controversy about the best kind of fertiliser for bulbs. Well, just like humans and other animals, plants enjoy a varied diet. But this could be allied to seasonal requirements. When a bulb is preparing to leave dormancy it has built up as much nutrient as it could extract from the potting/garden medium and its leaves before it went into dormancy at the end of the previous season. To assist in optimum growth and to impart improved disease resistance a diet rich in calcium will benefit all bulbs. Probably the best chemical to help here is Calcium nitrate [CaNO3, reagent grade is pure enough] One level tbsp dissolved in 10lt of water at the beginning when the bulb is calling upon all its resources to start the new season will add greater vigour and disease resistance. This should be in addition to your regular feeding regime. Once a month or even 2 months is sufficient. With a full complement of leaves the bulb will start to arouse the scape and flower tissue it formed as an embryo the previous season. This is when a feed with a higher phosporous content is called for so use a fertiliser that has a higher P ratio than you used at the beginning. Keep the potassium level about constant throughout the season As the leaves die off the bulb draws back to itself the useful chemicals stored in the leaves, so healthy strong leaves are necessary during the entire season so that the bulb is well nourished and the embryo of next season's flowers are formed and stored in a healthy bulb resistant to attack by pathogens during dormancy. I would stress that ammonium-based [NH4] fertilisers are to be avoided as they encourage fungal growth in potting media and many of these are pathogens that will sicken or kill plants by rotting roots and other tissue. Warren Glover Sydney ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Fikso" To: Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 5:11 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] pbs Digest, Vol 36, Issue 16: Fertilizers and geophytes > Don't believe the words on the packages about what is FOR what, as in "this > is FOR getting scum off of tile"; this (detergent) is FOR washing dishes, > this hair shampoo is FOR your very, oh-so special hair that no other shampoo > with conditioners will treat so well, etc., along with "coral calcium" all > natural, not that awful synthetic chemical stuff. About 98.99% nonsense, > and marketing hype. > > It's my experience that most plants will take what they need and do much > better treated with less rather than more fertilizer. There are exceptions > which are often keyed to time of year and availability of water > corresponding to the plant's ability to take it up based on IT'S needs not > yours. Many of the difficulties that gardeners have today is in overfeeding, > overwatering, and prepaering a nice "bed' for the plant to sleep in where it > promptly does just that.. goes to sleep forever. What's needed is to do > one's homework and try to learn about the growing conditions of the original > provenance of the plant-- assuming that one is not dealing with a Dutch > garden hybrid that has been bred to live and grow under extremely artificial > conditions. > > On another plant group's list right now, it has become apparent that > Arisaema candidissimum dies readily in most people's gardens because it's > overfed, overwatered, and over sheltered from the sun. If it was a kid, we'd > say it was "spoiled", ie., overindulged...so it doesn't "learn" to grow > roots, and furthermore, can't learn, because it's denied the opportunity. > It's parents are in too much of a hurry to see the flowers, to have the kid > get into a "good" school. Intellectual garbage in both places. > > Arisaema candidissimum does best in relatively poor sandy or clayey soil > with a fair amount of bound up calcium in the form of rocks or plaster, with > anywhere from 4-6 hours of direct or dappled sunlight each day. Watered > from time to time at a level that is so scant that it doesn't quite kill an > astilbe, where the ground can get hard as a rock. It seems to do better with > coarse sand mixed into the clayey loam, and with other plants around it to > perhaps take up extra moisture, or if it's on a slope. > > The main mistake I think, made about assessing growth requirements for > arisaemas in the past has been that if the collector sees plants growing in > a woodland, the assumption is made that they are shade-loving, so, this is > reported andas a consquence then, they are shaded in our gardens and watered > too much. But think! How long has the plant been there?. Was it as shaded > when it germinated? Were the trees around it as tall, and as close > together? If the plant is 25-30 years old and a really nice big one....it > was probably NOT as shaded when it first grew there. If you want a nice > big one--maybe you should give it some sun--and leave it alone. Don't fuss > with it, disturbing its roots all the time. Water it in--make sure it gets > established, but then just watch it and minister to it, don't choke it. > > One point of view: Adam in Glenview, IL erstwhile Zone 5a > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:00 AM > Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 36, Issue 16 > > > > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > > > > List-Post: <mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > > List-Archive: <http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist> > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Best bulb fertilizer (Darren Sage) > > 2. Re: Best bulb fertilizer (Mary Sue Ittner) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 15:02:37 +0000 > > From: "Darren Sage" > > Subject: [pbs] Best bulb fertilizer > > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > > > I have just picked up on this old mail. > > > > Ideally, what fertiliser ratio of NPK do people prefer? I have a lot of > > hippeastrum hybrids, Lilium longifolium and hybrid Gladiolus. > > > > Many thanks > > > > Darren > > > > > > > > > >>From: Mary Sue Ittner > >>Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society > >>To: Pacific Bulb Society > >>Subject: [pbs] Tomato Fertilizer > >>Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 11:52:41 -0800 > >> > >>Dear All, > >> > >>A number of years ago Diana Chapman recommended tomato fertilizer as an > >>excellent source of fertilizer for bulbs. I believe she mentioned a ratio > >>of 5-10-10. Others have continued to repeat this advice. I began to look > >>for tomato fertilizer and never found any in the ratio she recommended. I > >>found huge variations in the ingredients of what was referred to as tomato > >>fertilizer. They were not all low in nitrogen. If Diana and I both live in > >>California and there is this huge difference just in our state, think how > >>that could be magnified around the world. I'm not sure what would be the > >>best common denominator when explaining what to look for. Is the ratio of > >>Nitrogen-Phosphorus-Potassium everywhere? > >> > >>Mary Sue > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>pbs mailing list > >>pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >>http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 07:54:53 -0800 > > From: Mary Sue Ittner > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Best bulb fertilizer > > To: Pacific Bulb Society > > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20060115074232.035b41e0@mail.mcn.org> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > > > Dear Darren, > > > > I'm not trying to discourage people from answering your question, but do > > think that when a post from the past is quoted it is helped to check the > > archives for the discussion that followed it: > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2005-November/subject.html > > > > Tomato fertilizer is the subject to look for. > > > > I found this to be a fascinating thread, especially the confirmation that > > tomato fertilizers vary widely and that we cannot share cross country the > > ratios since NPK ratios are not internationally compatible. > > > > Specifically the post from Lee Poulsen that included Jim Lykos' post is > > instructive. (O.K. I concede that in this situation including the whole > > post saved time, but I still would rather people not do it for the sake of > > digest subscribers.) > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2005-November/023419.html > > > > Discussions about fertilizers are always interesting because there seems > > to > > be such a wide range of differences in what people do and what works and > > doesn't work so advice on what formula to use is difficult. So much > > depends > > on the plant, the climate, and the medium that plant is growing in. > > > > Mary Sue > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 36, Issue 16 > > *********************************** > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From extropian@optusnet.com.au Mon Jan 16 16:42:28 2006 Message-Id: <000501c61ae5$ee393f80$0301a8c0@intelpc> From: "Warren" Subject: Membership Renewal Reminder Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:54:33 +1100 How much is it a year? I just became a member of this group a few days ago and no one mentioned any membership fee Warren Glover Sydney ----- Original Message ----- From: "JENNIFER HILDEBRAND" To: Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 6:22 AM Subject: [pbs] Membership Renewal Reminder > To our valued members, > > Thanks so much for your support of PBS! Some of you have been with us since > the beginning, and others are only just now getting to enjoy the many > benefits that PBS has to offer. > > As the new year begins, we wanted to issue one last reminder that it is now > time to renew your membership. Most of you already have, and we appreciate > your continued support. > > For those of you whose feet are dragging, I wanted to post a quick warning: > this week Patty Colville, our membership chair, will be sending Dell Sherk, > our BX director, an updated membership list. Anyone whose name does not > appear on this list will be unable to participate in BX offerings until > their membership is brought current. We don't want there to be any delay in > getting you the freshest seeds and bulbs, so if you haven't had a chance to > update your membership, please do so as soon as possible. Remember, if you > pay by PayPal, your membership will be renewed virtually instantaneously! > > Happy new year! > Jennifer > PBS Secretary > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From dszeszko@gmail.com Sun Jan 15 23:20:32 2006 Message-Id: <9912b0b60601152020j62a21f8cp27967a5c9df3c2d2@mail.gmail.com> From: Dennis Szeszko Subject: Cypripedium Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:20:31 -0600 Dennis: Do you have pictures of the Cypripedium species? Was it a pink, white or yellow flower? If you could post pics to the wiki that would be great. I plan on adding pictures of Mexican Cypripedium species this summer when they come into flower. -Dennis From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Re: [pbs] Iris cristata > > > I wrote an article for SIGNA last year about an "iris hunting" trip where > I > found a fabulous population of Iris cristata blooming amongst Aquilegia > canadensis and Cypripedium sp. in southern Ohio. It was just a one-page > article, but I included lots of great photos. My favorite was a flower > that had falls that actually drooped rather than flare outwards. It > reminded me of a dwarf Iris tectorum. > > > > From darrensage100@hotmail.com Mon Jan 16 10:17:52 2006 Message-Id: From: "Darren Sage" Subject: Best bulb fertilizer Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:17:49 +0000 Sorry, I didn't mean to cause trouble. I don't know how to use the archives. But I will try to find out. Any tips? Darren >From: Mary Sue Ittner >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: Re: [pbs] Best bulb fertilizer >Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 07:54:53 -0800 > >Dear Darren, > >I'm not trying to discourage people from answering your question, but do >think that when a post from the past is quoted it is helped to check the >archives for the discussion that followed it: >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2005-November/subject.html > >Tomato fertilizer is the subject to look for. > >I found this to be a fascinating thread, especially the confirmation that >tomato fertilizers vary widely and that we cannot share cross country the >ratios since NPK ratios are not internationally compatible. > >Specifically the post from Lee Poulsen that included Jim Lykos' post is >instructive. (O.K. I concede that in this situation including the whole >post saved time, but I still would rather people not do it for the sake of >digest subscribers.) >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2005-November/023419.html > >Discussions about fertilizers are always interesting because there seems to >be such a wide range of differences in what people do and what works and >doesn't work so advice on what formula to use is difficult. So much depends >on the plant, the climate, and the medium that plant is growing in. > >Mary Sue > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Mon Jan 16 10:45:03 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060116072326.035d5520@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Best bulb fertilizer--Archive Search Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:44:44 -0800 Dear Darren, We welcome all bulb questions. People join our list all the time and won't know what has been discussed before. And besides I think the answers sometimes change as we gather more experience. So please don't stop asking questions and anyone who has a suggestion for the best fertilizer for Hippeastrum hybrids, Gladiolus hybrids, and Lilium longifolium please respond. On the other hand sometimes people won't take the time to answer if something has been discussed thoroughly before so checking with the archives can be very helpful. It used to be much easier to search our archives since there was a global search on our archive page. But with an updated program that is no longer possible. This formula on Google = http://www.google.com/webhp works quite well however. I have placed the formula on www.pacificbulbsociety.org in case you forget it. But then you have to remember where to find it I guess. It is: +[pbs] [search terms] site:lists.ibiblio.org So in this case I put this in the google search box: +[pbs] [fertilizer] site:lists.ibiblio.org and came up with 261 hits. Changing fertilizer to fertilize generates a few more. They won't all be what you are looking for, but there will be some wonderful posts from the past found that way. I remember Gordon Summerfield had suggested what worked for him with South African bulbs so if I wanted to find that I'd do: +[pbs] [fertilizer Summerfield] site:lists.ibiblio.org Learning how to search on Google is very helpful as otherwise you get too many hits. Even though it is off topic some of you may want to share your tips on searching. Mary Sue From john@floralarchitecture.com Mon Jan 16 11:25:46 2006 Message-Id: <20060116162545.27022.qmail@web36211.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Floral Architecture Subject: Pre-season sale up to 30% off Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:25:45 -0800 (PST) I'm offering clivias and other bulbs on sale. Email me for a current list or check out the web site, www.floralarchitecture.com/beta . Some of the items are out of stock but most are still available. I'm offering 20% off until the end of Jan. All prepaid orders receive an additional 5%. All the items on the website are on sale. Discount will be given after purchase. Some society's members will receive an additional 5% discount. That's 30% off regular prices. Prices are subject to availability. John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com "Your Clivia Connection" john@floralarchitecture.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) From Ger.Stickroth@t-online.de Mon Jan 16 13:51:35 2006 Message-Id: <000601c61acd$ddc7e240$38f6fea9@name7f29498d29> From: "GStickroth" Subject: Viability of Erythronium Seed Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 19:51:24 +0100 Hello, does anyone know how long erythronium seed retains its viability (E. revolutum, hendersonii) Thank you. Gerhard Stickroth, Bavaria, Z 6 Clear skies, -8C From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Jan 16 14:49:24 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20060116114614.01135508@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Viability of Erythronium Seed Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:49:21 -0800 Gerhard asked, >does anyone know how long erythronium seed retains its viability (E. >revolutum, hendersonii) Seeds of most western American species of Erythronium retain their viability well in dry storage for at least two years and possibly more, although germination may be slow. This is not ture of eastern American and Eurasian species, which have a brief period of viability. No doubt the difference stems from the different climatic patterns in these regions. The western American species ripen their seeds during a dry part of the year and the seeds may not receive any moisture for 5 months or more after dropping. Erythronium species elsewhere in the world would probably experience rain soon after the seeds ripen. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From rarebulbs@earthlink.net Mon Jan 16 15:49:01 2006 Message-Id: <000c01c61ade$446cca00$b2aa79a5@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: Viability of Erythronium Seed Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 12:48:54 -0800 > does anyone know how long erythronium seed retains its viability (E. revolutum, hendersonii)< I haven't found it worthwhile to sow Erythronium seed that is older than two years. You can get some germination from older seed, but it is much reduced and somewhat erratic. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs www.telosrarebulbs.com From ixia@dcsi.net.au Mon Jan 16 17:08:40 2006 Message-Id: <008201c61ae9$66053fc0$0201a8c0@Ixia> From: "Bill Richardson" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 36, Issue 16: Fertilizers and geophytes Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:08:31 +1100 Hi Warren, nice to see another Aussie on board. regards, Bill Richardson, Summer 10c-30c. West Gippsland, Victoria, Australia ixia@dcsi.net.au Ixia Website: www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Warren" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] pbs Digest, Vol 36, Issue 16: Fertilizers and geophytes > Hello all, > I've just recently joined the PBS and entered a controversy > about the best kind of fertiliser for bulbs. > From extropian@optusnet.com.au Mon Jan 16 17:57:53 2006 Message-Id: <007201c61af0$76fe7a60$0301a8c0@intelpc> From: "Warren" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 36, Issue 16: Fertilizers and geophytes Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:59:09 +1100 Thanks Bill for the welcome. Warren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Richardson" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] pbs Digest, Vol 36, Issue 16: Fertilizers and geophytes > Hi Warren, > nice to see another Aussie on board. > regards, > Bill Richardson, > Summer 10c-30c. > West Gippsland, > Victoria, > Australia > ixia@dcsi.net.au > Ixia Website: www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Warren" > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 2:50 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] pbs Digest, Vol 36, Issue 16: Fertilizers and geophytes > > > > Hello all, > > I've just recently joined the PBS and entered a controversy > > about the best kind of fertiliser for bulbs. > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From samclan@redshift.com Tue Jan 17 01:06:39 2006 Message-Id: <20060117060638.F29094C00E@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Shirley" Subject: Dear Pacific, Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 05:57:45 -0000 I use a good spam filter, and you probably do the same. I have whitelisted you and that means that I will receive all the emails you send to me. I would appreciate it if you would whitelist my email address: samclan@redshift.com in your spam program. Should your emails bounce back, do FAX me and let me know, so I can make loud noises to my provider, Spamfighter. Best regards Shirley From steve.burger@choa.org Tue Jan 17 11:16:33 2006 Message-Id: <0BAB7B6F7D5A53418C3B75FA01DE2BED0DE94DE5@CHOAMAIL4.choa.org> From: "Burger, Steve" Subject: OT? Global Warming Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:14:37 -0500 I am not a climatologist (My degree is in Plant Pathology, and I work with Information Systems ...long story:>) but I've taken a great interest in weather and climate due to my gardening habit, especially since I grow palms outdoors unprotected in a historically 7b climate. Although it is well recognized that weather is cyclical and we can't predict what our climate would look like right now without human influence, a consensus is building among climatologists that we are affecting climate and possibly quite rapidly. I've read a lot of material from climatologists that rode the fence on global warming just five or ten years ago, who are now fully in the camp of global climate change. Funny, the 1C climate change for Africa is an interesting point. Climate change like this is more magnified in the polar regions than near the equator. 1C in Africa could be 3C near the poles. From Siberian permafrost melts to Greenland's Ice sheets and European and North American glaciers disappearing, record Atlantic Hurricane seasons and many other notable phenomena, we are likely seeing (although not certainly) effects from our changes right now. Loss of Polar Ice is very scary, due to its reflectivity, (reflecting almost all solar radiation into space during the polar winter) loss of which will begin heating of that region earlier in the spring (and later into fall) as the sun returns. With China and India and their huge populations emerging economically, CO2 emissions from agriculture and industry could spike wildly. We certainly can't afford to wait for irrefutable evidence of global warming's validity, or what share in global warming CO2 emissions play. Nature can adjust to climate change and species ebb and flow across the globe as climate changes and continents drift to new latitudes. However, rapid change may not be so easy for humans and human agricultural technologies to adjust to. People need to live near their food production unless transportation is inexpensive and that the region in question has the ability to offset those transportation costs with some other production. What will happen if the Sahara doubles in size (it's growth is tied to global warming and overgrazing. That region was grasslands during the last ice age)? Africa with it's political, health (HIV and others) and economic woes could become a complete mess if even conservative global warming estimates come to fruition. The short end of it is that we don't know for certain about climate cycles vs. global warming due to human activity, but the folks who do this thing for a living are concerned. Our ability to change (emit less CO2) is slow and we might not "know" that we're having a major impact on climate before it is too late. But taking this seriously now and reacting to it, would only have short term negative impacts, and even if done in error (say we're not impacting climate) would help make industrialized nations less dependant on unstable nations for fuel. Fossil fuels will run out one day, so what's the harm in doing with less of them now, rather than later? Steve -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Kenneth Hixson Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 03:36 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] OT? Global Warming HI, All This is a fascinating thread, and we can argue about it for a long time. Some of us believe the worst, some of us believe otherwise. The reason for that is very simple. We know some of the facts, but by no means all of them. We know there is water in the glass, and it is either half full, or half empty, but is that the normal state of affairs? Is there perhaps a crack in the glass that we can't see, letting water out? We are beginning to understand some of the checks and balances built into world weather, but not all of them or how they function. For instance, it is often claimed that the world is getting warmer. These claims are based on recent weather, compared with fairly recent historical past weather--after all, we don't have very good weather records beyond a couple hundred years. A couple hundred years ago we were coming out of a mini-ice age, so anything now looks excessively warm. The fact is, we are speculating that we know what past weather was, and will be in the future. Most of the speculations I've seen do not mention that as the carbon dioxide increases and the earth warms, plants also grow faster--with every ten degrees F, plant growth approximately doubles, thus absorbing more carbon dioxide. At some point plant growth will absorb all the new carbon dioxide. As ice melts, it absorbs immense amounts of heat (specific heat), and the fresh water expands the oceans, which reflects more light back into space. About thirty years ago, with the advent of weather satellites in space, it was discovered that there was a hole in the ozone layer, and it was getting bigger. The chicken littles rushed around crying "The sky is falling, the sky is falling", or rather, "The ozone layer is shrinking". There was a lot of speculation about the bad effects of this, but to this day I've never seen any definitive statement whether or not it is an entirely normal thing which expands and contracts, or is purely a result of man's activities. I suspect there is a check, and the ozone layer hole will start to close by some effect we do not yet know or understand. We think we know the earth's magnetic poles are shifting, but why, and what effect will it have on the weather? Will the Northern lights now occur over California? And so on. In addition to Mark's comments about disease in Napoleon's armies, feeding his armies was a tremendous problem, in a time when preserving and transporting food was a huge problem. Napoleon offered a huge reward for anyone who could help preserve food, and Louis Pastuer won the award for the process now called pasteurization, of heat treating food. Canning food as a means of preservation is the result, prior to which food was preserved by drying, pickling or salting. It probably wouldn't have helped Napoleon's armies even if there was enough food available (with all able bodied men in the army instead of raising food) simply because the transport was inadequate to ship enough food the tremendous distance involved. Dave made a comment about the "scorned potato". What needs to be kept in mind is that the potato was not introduced into Europe until the americas were discovered, and food plants were not the first thing looted from the americas. The potatos brought back to Europe were not adapted to European conditions, and several generations of selection needed to done before they adapted to become a meaningful food crop. Building up adequate "seed stocks" of the new crop, and distributing it to appropriate areas also took time. Then, subsistance farmers are notoriously slow to adopt new crops, so getting potatos to become a dependable food source took time. Just when it became a staple of the diet, the disease late blight hit and caused widespread famine in a population that had adapted to the new food source. The potato was scorned because of the famine, when it became obvious that the new food source was not as dependable as had been hoped. Dave also commented that the romans brought grapes to Europe (and specifically England) and wine was the drink of choice. Perhaps for the nobility, but the peasants in England probably never saw it. The grapes were probably those that were adapted to Italy, and lacked cold tolerance. Getting grapes with cold hardiness again required time, and an understanding of the need. The area of central Europe would have been the logical source of cold hardy grapes, but the romans were in a constant state of warfare with the peoples of central europe, if the people there even grew grapes. What does this mean to me as a grower of bulbs? Well, the USDA now lists my area as Zone 8, as winters for the past thirty years haven't gotten much below +15F. However, in my lifetime it has been -12F (December 1972), twice minus 5F, and several times to just above 0F. When I'm in zone denial, I try to grow Hedychium gardnerianum, Dahlias and Cannas. The Hedychium this year has tolerated a couple days of +25F, though it looks badly frostburned right now. I realize I'm gambling, and if I lose plants, I'll know that it isn't the end of the world. My lifetime is the blink of an eye on a geological time scale, and this area probably isn't Zone 8, even though I've been enjoying the fact that it has been warmer than usual. Will it be -5F within the next ten years? I won't bet against it. Ken _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From chadschroter@yahoo.com Tue Jan 17 12:38:08 2006 Message-Id: <20060117173807.46204.qmail@web30407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Chad Schroter Subject: Pre-season sale up to 30% off Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:38:07 -0800 (PST) John, yes I would like to see a current list of what is available, I looked at your website - but there are so many things... In particular I would like to try some of the Clivia x cyrtanthifolia species and hybrids if any are available. Thanks, Chad Schroter - chadschroter@yahoo.com Floral Architecture wrote: I'm offering clivias and other bulbs on sale. Email me for a current list or check out the web site, www.floralarchitecture.com/beta . Some of the items are out of stock but most are still available. I'm offering 20% off until the end of Jan. All prepaid orders receive an additional 5%. All the items on the website are on sale. Discount will be given after purchase. Some society's members will receive an additional 5% discount. That's 30% off regular prices. Prices are subject to availability. John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com "Your Clivia Connection" john@floralarchitecture.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we’ll bind it! From irisman@ameritech.net Tue Jan 17 14:08:54 2006 Message-Id: <000901c61b99$02a0d9c0$5ad8fea9@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: global warming records and climate Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:05:40 -0600 Steve? re global warming It's true that we have written records only going back a few hundred years . but the records go back about 200,000 years in the form of polar ice cores, from which it has been possible to measure levels of CO2, methane, oxygen, etc. This is the basis for the information about global warming, and man's contribution to it. If one uses incomplete data to arrive at conclusions, conclusions will be inaccurate. And if the incomplete data is the result of political bias, and a preference for mythology rather than science, then the results can be disastrous, as we have seen.. Nature can be disastrous either way, whether one puts one's faith in good data or not, but science and a really free press allows for better and more reasonable preparation for adequate warning systems --mythology or data suppression is poor preparation. The tsunami could not have been preveneted with any data we now have. But an adequate warning system, even phones, could have prevented the loss of at least 150,000 lives in Indonesia and environs. The Gulf Coast is a different set of convoluted problems. But phone systems and adequate communication were a problem there too, along with a generalized unwillingness to acknowledge masses of data sets, not just on climate instability. The information is there on the web. From totototo@telus.net Tue Jan 17 14:29:11 2006 Message-Id: <20060117192910.ETLW16166.priv-edmwes26.telusplanet.net@ray> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Viability of Erythronium Seed Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:28:34 -0800 On 16 Jan 06 at 19:51, GStickroth wrote: > does anyone know how long erythronium seed retains its viability (E. revolutum, > hendersonii). I believe seed of the Pacific Slope erythroniums is viable for a long time, as long as it's stored under reasonable conditions. However, these species generally only germinate after experiencing *significant* winter chilling. A sowing in November or December may be too late, delaying germination until the second spring following. If you have dry seed on hand, don't sow it now; wait until mid-summer. Then put the pots or flats where the winter weather can chill them. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From steve.burger@choa.org Wed Jan 18 11:19:13 2006 Message-Id: <0BAB7B6F7D5A53418C3B75FA01DE2BED0DE94DEF@CHOAMAIL4.choa.org> From: "Burger, Steve" Subject: Blooming in Atlanta Georgia USA today Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 11:18:50 -0500 I'm very happy to say that Rynveld's Early daffs are in full swing here in my Georgia garden. I've had a couple up for a week now. This is my second season with them and they make me so happy to see this off season color. I have some woodies blooming too, Lonicera fragrans and Jasminum nudiflorum. Crocus korolkowii is doing its thing too, although it hasn't proven to be a great performer here. Many other bulbs are poking up their heads getting ready for the show that usually starts here in about a month. Any hint of spring this time of year really brightens the winter blues. Steve Dallas, Ga USA 7b From bklehm@comcast.net Wed Jan 18 18:42:55 2006 Message-Id: <33b2faff98367079759740b100071e2e@comcast.net> From: Brook Klehm Subject: OT: Horticulturalist/Horticulturist Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 15:42:44 -0800 Hello All, I am on the horns of a dilemma. This inquiring mind is dying to know: do you use or prefer the term, "horticulturalist" or "horticulturist"? Or do you just call yourself a plants person and be done with it? After searching on the internet, both terms are in use and have been for over a hundred years. There was a publication called "The Horticulturalist" with copies that go back to 1859. A wonderful quote was, "The World Horticulturalist is not to be trifled with!" However, my spellcheck, Webster's Collegiate and American Heritage dictionaries don't include the word. They offer "horticulturist". It appears that the first term is more in use in England, while the second is in use in the US. I had never heard the term horticulturist prior to today. When considering the word, however, it makes more sense than horticulturalist. After all, I'm engaged in the field of horticulture rather than the field of horticultural. Yes? No? Opinions? I came across this question while preparing my resume and now I won't sleep till I know more! Brook Klehm From cathycraigea@hotmail.com Wed Jan 18 19:30:03 2006 Message-Id: From: "Cathy Craig" Subject: Newsletter Update Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:30:01 -0800 Hi all, The last newsletter for 2005 has gone into the mail and you will be receiving yours shortly. Your newsletter carries a label that tells you when your PBS membership expires. For those of you who have not renewed as yet, I have enclosed a Renewal Form, Pay Pal instructions, and a return envelope, for your convenience. Please notice that you may renew for one, two, or three years. Thanks! Cathy Craig EA Taxation & Asset Management CathyCraigEA@hotmail.com (949) 369-8588 Ofc (949) 939-7801 Cell From jimmckenney@starpower.net Wed Jan 18 21:13:57 2006 Message-Id: <4k6l9v$4k7m91@smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: OT: Horticulturalist/Horticulturist Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 21:13:57 -0500 Brook, I never heard the term horticulturalist until an announcer on a local radio station used it a few years ago. Since then I'm hearing it more often. As you have, I've often wondered what the word says. To me it sounds like a word to describe dandies who took an interest in "things horticultural". I'm winging this, so don't take me too seriously, but it's easy to imagine that in nineteenth century England, where class and occupation distinctions were taken very seriously, the word horticulturist suggested a mere gardener. And heaven forbid that a gentleman should give the impression that he actually made the sort of effort which might result in perspiration. Thus, or so I imagine, horticulturalist: a dabbler in other words. But I may have it completely wrong. As an example of this preoccupation with image, consider this. Only last night I was reading Gertrude Jekyll (Home and Garden, chapter XI The Workshop), and in a passage where she describes the workshop on the family property, she mentions her father's interest in the place and the enjoyment he took of the activities there. Just as I was forming mental images of her father with his sleeves rolled up and the déclassé yet egalitarian drops forming on his brow, she hastily adds that his enjoyment came from the management of the staff who actually worked there. "His ability did not so much consist in working at a bench himself, as in planning and directing the handiwork of others." What a hoot! Evidently they cast in lead in that workshop, so perhaps he called himself a "metallurgicalist". I don't mean to put this one on our friends on the other side of the pond; we have our own in abundance, although nowadays we call them yuppies (does that date me?). Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Crocus korolkowii in several forms has joined the party. From osmani_baullosa@yahoo.com Thu Jan 19 13:23:34 2006 Message-Id: <20060119182334.93515.qmail@web30501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Osmani Baullosa Subject: SOUTH AMERICAN SEED LIST NOW ONLINE Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:23:34 -0800 (PST) Dear Dave, and all, Some forum members have asked to me the same question. My site has been down for several hours, which I took to upload a more COMPLETE INFORMATION about the species, including germination and growing tips, hardiness, habitat, etc... Only the available species (seeds) are there now: http://botanicalgems.blogspot.com/ The renovated site also includes the prices, which are dramatically lower now in most of the cases. And all the details if you are interested in obtaining any of these species. In this case, please write to me privately to obaullosa@yahoo.com. Some species previously listed on my site are temporarily out. If they become available, I will post the pictures again, along with the related information. Regards, OB Laura & Dave wrote: Hi Osmani I tried to access your website at: http://botanicalgems.blogspot.com/ and got a message that the URL was not found at that server. Have you changed sites, or is it just broken. Dave --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we’ll bind it! From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Jan 19 16:57:27 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20060119135554.010ea370@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: OT: Horticulturalist/Horticulturist Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:57:21 -0800 Brook asked, I am on the horns of a dilemma. This inquiring mind is dying to know: >do you use or prefer the term, "horticulturalist" or "horticulturist"? As an editor and lexicographer, I would prefer "horticulturist." It's always best to form a neologism from the simplest base word. Jane McGary From hilary@ingascony.com Thu Jan 19 17:10:52 2006 Message-Id: <00ea01c61d4d$f344d6a0$0300a8c0@shimmer> From: "Hilary Nightingale" Subject: OT: Horticulturalist/Horticulturist Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 23:13:25 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane McGary" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] OT: Horticulturalist/Horticulturist > Brook asked, > I am on the horns of a dilemma. This inquiring mind is dying to > know: > >do you use or prefer the term, "horticulturalist" or "horticulturist"? > > As an editor and lexicographer, I would prefer "horticulturist." It's > always best to form a neologism from the simplest base word. > > Jane McGary The Collins English Dictionary agrees with you Jane Hilary Nightingale _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From darrensage100@hotmail.com Thu Jan 19 20:17:18 2006 Message-Id: From: "Darren Sage" Subject: Hippeastrum seeds Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 01:17:15 +0000 Dear Hans I am not sure if I thanked you for the reply you gave below before. Many thanks for the information. Darren >From: "Angela and Dean Offer" >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: "Pacific Bulb Society" >Subject: Re: [pbs] Hippeastrum seeds >Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 11:17:23 +0800 > >When sowing hippeastrum seeds they have to be very fresh seeds. >Cheers >Angela >Sunny Albany Western Australia >----- Original Message ----- >From: Hans-Werner Hammen >To: >Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 3:22 AM >Subject: Re: [pbs] Hippeastrum seeds > > > > Hello Darren: > > > > the total depth of these 50 cm x 18 cm boxes is 15 cm and the height of >the > > seed beds is then 12 to 14 cm. > > > > However; > > > > The dimensions are not critical and do not decide on fortune as regards >to > > raising seedling of hippeastrums or other amaryllogene plants with these > > papery foiled seeds. > > > > A lower drainage layer of some cm of seramis, perlite, expanded clay >bullets > > (regardless whether these are totally porous (Seramis) or not, or >charcoal > > grains is sufficient, let's say 5 cm. But 10 cm is good, too. > > > > Care should be taken (it should be controlled) that the drainage bullets >do > > not clog the drainage holes on the ground of the sowing box. I drill > > numerous additional drainage holes of 0.5 cm diameter to ensuire good >air > > supply from belw. That is soo important - particularly when I rinse so > > thoroughly with approx. 1 total seed bed volume of water(!) > > > > The drainage layer is then covered carefully - without mixing - with the > > substrate, that is coco peat, the height not being critical, too; >something > > like 9 cm. > > > > If you change the proportion of substrate to drainage layer towards the > > latter, then my previously recommended very thorough waterings might be >less > > critical for seedlings of those amaryllids (or any other seedlings) >which > > are supposed to be very sensible and likely to rot. On the other hand >you > > will have to water more often. > > > > If you sow seeds from a vigorous hippeastrum cultivar you will better >use >a > > full height of 10 cm of coco. But if you sow thse far smaller seeds of a > > more tiny cultivar for example from crossing H.cybister "Chico" with >another > > smaller growing hybrid like "Pink Floyd" then you reduce the coco layer >to > > 7 cm considering the far lower water uptake of these more delicate > > seedlings. > > And if you sow Cyrtanthus Mackenii (I did this summer) - then only 5 cm >coco > > is sufficient. > > The loss of sed bed hjeight is compensated by a thicker drainage layer. > > > > The question when the seedlings are to be transplanted can not be >answered > > schematically either: This is in your decision and depends on the > > observation - "WHEN do the seedlings obviously become too crowded". If >you > > have had a good germination rate and furthermore experience a rapid >growth > > of vigourous seedlings you will have to transplant earlier. The minimum >time > > I keep these seedlings together is 5 months. The maximum timespan I let >the > > seedlings together was 10 months in single cases, but I do not recommend > > that. The meanwhile rich network of stronger roots from the individual > > plants is not easily separatable any more and serious damage to the >basal > > plates is very probable to happen when using force. > > > > Hans-Werner > > > > >From: "Darren Sage" > > >Subject: Re: [pbs] Hippeastrum seeds > > >Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 22:56:11 +0000 > > > > > >How deep are those trays illusstrated? How long do the seedlings stay >in > > >them? > > > > > > >From: "Hans-Werner Hammen" > > > >Subject: Re: [pbs] Hippeastrum seeds > > > >Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 17:22:18 +0000 > > > > > > > >I sow into freshly recontituted coco peat substrate, and I put every > > > >single seed, one beside another with blunt tweezers into slits formed > > >with a ruler. > > > >This is the most accurate and yes, rather rapid method. > > > > >http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/seedl12weeks_detailed.jpg > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Ger.Stickroth@t-online.de Thu Jan 19 22:21:05 2006 Message-Id: <1EzmpY-1d0Alc0@fwd32.sul.t-online.de> From: "Gerhard Stickroth" Subject: Lilium Pardalinum Seed Date: 20 Jan 2006 03:20 GMT Hello, I will be receiving some L. pardalinum seed the end of the month. I assume seed has been dry stored since collection. How do you recommend I handle the seed this time of the year? Thank you! Gerhard Stickroth, Bavaria, Z6 From Ger.Stickroth@t-online.de Thu Jan 19 22:27:52 2006 Message-Id: <1EzmwE-21D1hg0@fwd26.sul.t-online.de> From: "Gerhard Stickroth" Subject: Viability of Erythronium Seed Date: 20 Jan 2006 03:27 GMT Thank you for your information and recommendations. Gerhard Stickroth, Bavaria, Z6 From jimmckenney@starpower.net Thu Jan 19 22:29:24 2006 Message-Id: <4iore0$5rps3o@smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Lilium Pardalinum Seed Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 22:29:22 -0500 Gerhard, sow the seed immediately in a moist medium and store it at about 5 degrees C; expect small bulbs to emerge from the seeds during the following three months. During that period, keep the temperature at about 5 degrees C. Higher temperatures will inhibit germination. After about three months, bring the germinated seeds into warmth and foliar growth will commence. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where I noticed today that many Calochortus have foliage above ground. From jlongane@hotmail.com Thu Jan 19 23:43:58 2006 Message-Id: From: "John Longanecker" Subject: Lilium Pardalinum Seed Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:43:56 -0800 Gerhard: L pardalinum seeds respond well to about 3 months cold treatment but more will not harm them as long as you monitor dampness of the medium. They are ready to plant in "warm" (I set out in pots in the garden any time after they sprout) conditions when a white root is visible. The seed coat will still be attached and there may be a cotyledon emerging opposite the root. I spread the seed on the growing medium and cover with about 3/4 inch medium. Once they emerge from the medium as small plants, you should protect from hard frosts and preditors such as slugs and birds. In the California sub-alpine/mediterranean climate where they grow wild, the sprouting medium is usually saturated peaty soil which provides a temperate condition during spring weather variations. In the garden, damp, well-drained mulchy soil will enable pardalinum to grow and bloom and hopefully multiply. They like tight cool growing quarters and even slab rock beneath them, provided the drainage isn't impaired. John Longanecker, zone 7 banana belt Sierra Nevada foothills, CA From haweha@hotmail.com Fri Jan 20 22:57:29 2006 Message-Id: From: "Hans-Werner Hammen" Subject: Hippeastrum seeds Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 03:57:28 +0000 Greetings from Duesseldorf, Germany http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/008_25.jpg Hello Darren: Thank you for your feedback. I hope you can take profit from my explanations and raise great hippeastrums respecting my simple recommendations. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/1299.jpg I think that the most critical point (if it IS ever critical) is the watering frequency. The best results are obtained if you let the substrate dry out to the particular stage when the leaves of (some of) the seedlings just BEGIN to lose their surface glossiness. The frequency of watering based on this observation gives STILL better results than slavishly watering every 4th day! And there is one other observation I have really no rational explanation for: I found out that this watering from above gives better results when I perform that in the evening, and I put the boxes back into the light bench not before the next morning. It seems that the wetted plants do NOT like exposition to brightness. In this case they tend to loose their particular surface sheen for a certain time. I like to show you some amaryllid seedlings of one other genus: from seeds I received, labeled as "Cyrtanthus mackenii hybr." http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/023_25.jpg These are now 7 months old. It can be clearly seen that one of these is in an uncommon manner surpassing the others. I am optimistic that this one will bloom in fall 2006. I am looking forward to all the blooming 2- and 3-y Hippeastrums (and other amaryllids) cultivated by the elucidated newsletter readers *g* Gardener's amaryllis are indeed to reach bloomable state in this short time - provided that this cultivation technique is consequently followed and the plants are replanted in coco peat as well afterwards, with further administering of adequate light from above - and lukewarm water from below, containing diluted mineral fertilizer every time. Best wishes Hans-Werner >From: "Darren Sage" >Subject: Re: [pbs] Hippeastrum seeds >Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 01:17:15 +0000 From dells@voicenet.com Sat Jan 21 08:23:18 2006 Message-Id: From: Dell Sherk Subject: Pacific BX 114 Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 08:23:21 -0500 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by people from all over the world, to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 114" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (cash, check, or Paypal ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: .... Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com . If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 429, New Hope, PA, 18938, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations. PLEASE NOTE: I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER.. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! Note: most of the supplies for this offering are very limited. From Joyce Miller: Bulbs: 1. Ledebouria sp? 2. Ledebouria ovalifolia 3. Liatris scariosa From Doug Westfall: 4. Seed of Haemanthus albiflos, wide-leafed cv 5. Seed of Scadoxus membranaceus From Rob Hamilton: 6. Seed of Cyrtanthus breviflorus, sow now 7. Seed of Tecophilaea cyanocrocus 'leichtlinii', sow now 8. Seed of Moraea spathulata, so early spring Thank you, Joyce, Doug and Rob !! Best wishes, Dell --Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX From totototo@telus.net Sat Jan 21 11:41:29 2006 Message-Id: <20060121164128.EHKI4956.priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net@ray> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Lilium Pardalinum Seed Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 08:40:48 -0800 On 20 Jan 06 at 3:20, Gerhard Stickroth wrote: > I will be receiving some L. pardalinum seed the end of the month. I assume seed has > been dry stored since collection. How do you recommend I handle the seed this time of > the year? Thank you! Put the seeds in water with a drop or two of dishwashing liquid added as a surfactant. Soak until they plump up. Change the water if it becomes discolored or cloudy; when you change the water, rinse the seeds in a sieve under a hard spray of cold water. Sow on edge in your usual seed mix, cover with fine gravel or whatever topping you use, and put outside in a coldframe. A single watering with a good fungicide, if you can still get them in Germany, may improve germination. Lily seeds are generally not difficult to germinate. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From msittner@mcn.org Sat Jan 21 13:02:01 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060121093123.033d79c0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: When to sow seed from the BX/Delphinium seed Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 10:01:00 -0800 Hi, Alberto tried to get us routinely to mark whether the seed we give to the BX is of plants growing in winter, summer, or evergreen to help know when to sow or plant. This is especially helpful when seeds are donated from different hemispheres. Sometimes this information is provided, sometimes not. I'm assuming Joyce's offerings in the latest BX of Ledebouria and Liatris are all summer growing and dormant now in the northern hemisphere and if planted now would need some protection from rain and cold. Doug's seed of Haemanthus and Scadoxus should be refrigerated and planted soon if you are unable to plant right away since these South African amaryllid seeds have a short storage period. If they have sprouted when you get them, it is best to plant immediately. A number of years ago we had a discussion about when we in the Northern hemisphere should plant Tecophilaea seed harvested in the Southern Hemisphere with some people suggested it needed to be planted right away as Rob is suggesting, but the majority recommending planting in the fall. I've started seed from Bill Dijk in New Zealand more than once and always saved the seed to plant in the fall and had good germination. In my climate they generally start showing green December to January and I even have a couple trying to bloom now in spite of the wet weather although others are still coming up. Granted the seed I got from Bill was not obtained as soon as this seed from Rob and all of us are eager to get a quicker start on something that takes a number of years before it blooms. I just suggest there might be some flexibility about when you start that seed and it may depend on what kind of conditions you can provide after the seed germinates. A lot of us have found that when some seed is started much later that it would be in nature, that it may not grow long enough and well enough to form a large enough bulb to survive dormancy. In that case holding it to the proper time if the seed can be saved without losing viability may result in greater success. I had recent surprise when Delphinium seed I purchased from Ron Ratko a couple years ago (03 seed) germinated in huge numbers this year. I had sown half of it last year and had really poor germination so decided there was little to lose in starting again the seed I hadn't sown that had been stored (mostly under refrigeration, but not entirely.) This year I left it out to be rained on when last year I was more protective of it. So maybe it needed massive rain which nature provided to break the dormancy. On the other hand I've always read Delphinium seed had a short viability and at least for these two species, this wasn't true. Now what am I going to do with all these Delphiniums, when each could end up in a gallon pot by the end of the year? Mary Sue From ixia@dcsi.net.au Sat Jan 21 17:02:07 2006 Message-Id: <006801c61ed6$53b6c780$0201a8c0@Ixia> From: "Bill Richardson" Subject: Lilium Pardalinum Seed Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 09:02:04 +1100 Hi Rodger, you stated: --Sow on edge in your usual seed mix--. I've all my seed flat with good germination. Is there an advantage in sowing on the edge? many thanks. regards, Bill Richardson, Ixia King Summer 16c-42c. at present West Gippsland, Victoria, Australia ixia@dcsi.net.au Ixia Website: www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rodger Whitlock" To: Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 3:40 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Lilium Pardalinum Seed > On 20 Jan 06 at 3:20, Gerhard Stickroth wrote: > > > I will be receiving some L. pardalinum seed the end of the month. I assume seed has > > been dry stored since collection. How do you recommend I handle the seed this time of > > the year? Thank you! > > Put the seeds in water with a drop or two of dishwashing liquid added as a > surfactant. Soak until they plump up. Change the water if it becomes discolored or > cloudy; when you change the water, rinse the seeds in a sieve under a hard spray of > cold water. > > Sow on edge in your usual seed mix, cover with fine gravel or whatever topping you use, > and put outside in a coldframe. A single watering with a good fungicide, if you can > still get them in Germany, may improve germination. > > Lily seeds are generally not difficult to germinate. > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate > > on beautiful Vancouver Island > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From ConroeJoe@aol.com Sat Jan 21 23:13:36 2006 Message-Id: <62.642407ca.3104606b@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Aquatic Crinum Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 23:13:31 EST Hi Gang, J. Schulze described Crinum thaianum in the early- or mid-1970s (Plant Life, The Amer. Plant Life Soc. [H. Traub &H. Moldenke, eds.] 27:33-42).  He described it as a completely aquatic, Crinum species from Thailand.  Since that time it has been used as a water plant by aquarium enthusiasts.  He also mentioned three other fully aquatic Crinum species from Africa (2 species) and the Americas (1 species).  Crinum natans seems to be another aquatic Crinum, but I have not sorted out the differences and names yet.  Question:  Do these relatives of garden Crinum survive a few days out of water, or must they be submerged essentially all the time? Question: Does anyone grow these for flower? Cordially, Conroe Joe LINK:  C. thaianum info and photos http://tinyurl.com/aux8r LINK:  C. natans photos http://planta.aquariana.cz/Crinum_natans.htm LINK:  C. natans, C. calamistratum, C. purperascens photos http://www.lucidcentral.org/keys/appw/html/crinum_images.html From crinum@libero.it Sun Jan 22 02:53:15 2006 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Grossi" Subject: Aquatic Crinum Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 08:53:14 +0100 Hi Joe and all, I grow thaianum and calimistratum (a var. of natans). They are completely submerged all time. In summer I put them into a little pond at full sun, in winter (I live in zone 8) I put them in an aquarium with temperature at 18-20°C. I have not seen the flower till now, but I hope to. There is little in literature about these items and less in horticulture. I am experimenting! Ciao Alberto Italy ---------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Sat, 21 Jan 2006 23:13:31 EST Subject : [pbs] Aquatic Crinum > Hi Gang, > > J. Schulze described Crinum thaianum in the early- or mid-1970s (Plant Life, > The Amer. Plant Life Soc. [H. Traub &H. Moldenke, eds.] 27:33-42).  He > described it as a completely aquatic, Crinum species from Thailand.  Since that time > it has been used as a water plant by aquarium enthusiasts.  > > He also mentioned three other fully aquatic Crinum species from Africa (2 > species) and the Americas (1 species).  Crinum natans seems to be another aquatic > Crinum, but I have not sorted out the differences and names yet.  > > Question:  Do these relatives of garden Crinum survive a few days out of > water, or must they be submerged essentially all the time? > > Question: Does anyone grow these for flower? > > > Cordially, > > Conroe Joe > > > LINK:  C. thaianum info and photos > http://tinyurl.com/aux8r > > LINK:  C. natans photos > http://planta.aquariana.cz/Crinum_natans.htm > > LINK:  C. natans, C. calamistratum, C. purperascens photos > http://www.lucidcentral.org/keys/appw/html/crinum_images.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Alberto Grossi Italy From extropian@optusnet.com.au Sun Jan 22 16:14:33 2006 Message-Id: <000201c61f99$0de979a0$0301a8c0@intelpc> From: "Warren" Subject: OT? Global Warming Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 00:25:51 +1100 Steve, The problem interestes me mightily and I will ask you what I have asked other climatologists in recent years. Is there a stage that can be predicted when the "greenhouse" cycle will be irreversible, when there is too much greenhouse gases that Earth's atmosphere is permanently changed and the effect is beyond repair? Warren Glover ----- Original Message ----- From: "Burger, Steve" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 3:14 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] OT? Global Warming > I am not a climatologist (My degree is in Plant Pathology, and I work with Information Systems ...long story:>) but I've taken a great interest in weather and climate due to my gardening habit, especially since I grow palms outdoors unprotected in a historically 7b climate. > > Although it is well recognized that weather is cyclical and we can't predict what our climate would look like right now without human influence, a consensus is building among climatologists that we are affecting climate and possibly quite rapidly. > > I've read a lot of material from climatologists that rode the fence on global warming just five or ten years ago, who are now fully in the camp of global climate change. > > Funny, the 1C climate change for Africa is an interesting point. Climate change like this is more magnified in the polar regions than near the equator. 1C in Africa could be 3C near the poles. > > >From Siberian permafrost melts to Greenland's Ice sheets and European and North American glaciers disappearing, record Atlantic Hurricane seasons and many other notable phenomena, we are likely seeing (although not certainly) effects from our changes right now. Loss of Polar Ice is very scary, due to its reflectivity, (reflecting almost all solar radiation into space during the polar winter) loss of which will begin heating of that region earlier in the spring (and later into fall) as the sun returns. > > With China and India and their huge populations emerging economically, CO2 emissions from agriculture and industry could spike wildly. We certainly can't afford to wait for irrefutable evidence of global warming's validity, or what share in global warming CO2 emissions play. > > Nature can adjust to climate change and species ebb and flow across the globe as climate changes and continents drift to new latitudes. However, rapid change may not be so easy for humans and human agricultural technologies to adjust to. People need to live near their food production unless transportation is inexpensive and that the region in question has the ability to offset those transportation costs with some other production. > > What will happen if the Sahara doubles in size (it's growth is tied to global warming and overgrazing. That region was grasslands during the last ice age)? Africa with it's political, health (HIV and others) and economic woes could become a complete mess if even conservative global warming estimates come to fruition. > > The short end of it is that we don't know for certain about climate cycles vs. global warming due to human activity, but the folks who do this thing for a living are concerned. Our ability to change (emit less CO2) is slow and we might not "know" that we're having a major impact on climate before it is too late. But taking this seriously now and reacting to it, would only have short term negative impacts, and even if done in error (say we're not impacting climate) would help make industrialized nations less dependant on unstable nations for fuel. Fossil fuels will run out one day, so what's the harm in doing with less of them now, rather than later? > > > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Kenneth Hixson > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 03:36 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: [pbs] OT? Global Warming > > > HI, All > This is a fascinating thread, and we can argue about it for a > long time. Some of us believe the worst, some of us believe otherwise. > The reason for that is very simple. We know some of the facts, but > by no means all of them. We know there is water in the glass, and it > is either half full, or half empty, but is that the normal state of affairs? > Is there perhaps a crack in the glass that we can't see, letting water out? > We are beginning to understand some of the checks and balances > built into world weather, but not all of them or how they function. > For instance, it is often claimed that the world is getting warmer. > These claims are based on recent weather, compared with fairly > recent historical past weather--after all, we don't have very > good weather records beyond a couple hundred years. A couple > hundred years ago we were coming out of a mini-ice age, so anything > now looks excessively warm. The fact is, we are speculating that we > know what past weather was, and will be in the future. Most of the > speculations I've seen do not mention that as the carbon dioxide > increases and the earth warms, plants also grow faster--with every > ten degrees F, plant growth approximately doubles, thus absorbing more > carbon dioxide. At some point plant growth will absorb all the new > carbon dioxide. As ice melts, it absorbs immense amounts of heat > (specific heat), and the fresh water expands the oceans, which > reflects more light back into space. > About thirty years ago, with the advent of weather satellites > in space, it was discovered that there was a hole in the ozone layer, > and it was getting bigger. The chicken littles rushed around crying > "The sky is falling, the sky is falling", or rather, "The ozone layer is > shrinking". There was a lot of speculation about the bad effects of this, > but to this day I've never seen any definitive statement whether or not > it is an entirely normal thing which expands and contracts, or is purely > a result of man's activities. I suspect there is a check, and the ozone > layer hole will start to close by some effect we do not yet know or > understand. > We think we know the earth's magnetic poles are shifting, > but why, and what effect will it have on the weather? Will the Northern > lights now occur over California? And so on. > > In addition to Mark's comments about disease in Napoleon's > armies, feeding his armies was a tremendous problem, in a time > when preserving and transporting food was a huge problem. Napoleon > offered a huge reward for anyone who could help preserve food, > and Louis Pastuer won the award for the process now called pasteurization, > of heat treating food. Canning food as a means of preservation > is the result, prior to which food was preserved by drying, pickling or > salting. It probably wouldn't have helped Napoleon's armies even if there > was enough food available (with all able bodied men in the army instead > of raising food) simply because the transport was inadequate to > ship enough food the tremendous distance involved. > > Dave made a comment about the "scorned potato". What needs > to be kept in mind is that the potato was not introduced into Europe > until the americas were discovered, and food plants were not the first > thing looted from the americas. The potatos brought back to Europe > were not adapted to European conditions, and several generations of > selection needed to done before they adapted to become a meaningful > food crop. Building up adequate "seed stocks" of the new crop, and > distributing it to appropriate areas also took time. Then, subsistance > farmers are notoriously slow to adopt new crops, so getting potatos > to become a dependable food source took time. Just when it became > a staple of the diet, the disease late blight hit and caused widespread > famine in a population that had adapted to the new food source. The > potato was scorned because of the famine, when it became obvious > that the new food source was not as dependable as had been hoped. > > Dave also commented that the romans brought grapes to Europe > (and specifically England) and wine was the drink of choice. Perhaps > for the nobility, but the peasants in England probably never saw it. The > grapes were probably those that were adapted to Italy, and lacked cold > tolerance. Getting grapes with cold hardiness again required time, and > an understanding of the need. The area of central Europe would have > been the logical source of cold hardy grapes, but the romans were in a > constant state of warfare with the peoples of central europe, if the people > there even grew grapes. > > What does this mean to me as a grower of bulbs? Well, > the USDA now lists my area as Zone 8, as winters for the past thirty > years haven't gotten much below +15F. However, in my lifetime > it has been -12F (December 1972), twice minus 5F, and several times > to just above 0F. When I'm in zone denial, I try to grow Hedychium > gardnerianum, Dahlias and Cannas. The Hedychium this year has > tolerated a couple days of +25F, though it looks badly frostburned > right now. I realize I'm gambling, and if I lose plants, I'll know that > it isn't the end of the world. My lifetime is the blink of an eye on a > geological time scale, and this area probably isn't Zone 8, even though > I've been enjoying the fact that it has been warmer than usual. Will > it be -5F within the next ten years? I won't bet against it. > > Ken > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From dells@voicenet.com Sun Jan 22 08:31:51 2006 Message-Id: <20060122133150.F08044C00E@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 114 CLOSED Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 08:32:00 -0500 Everything is claimed. With luck I'll get packages out early in the week. Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From dells@voicenet.com Sun Jan 22 08:39:10 2006 Message-Id: <20060122133909.E08ED4C00E@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Growing Haemanthus/scadoxus from seed Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 08:39:18 -0500 For those of you who will be sowing Doug Westfall’s H/S seed from BX 114 or for those who are just interested in the process, Doug has written the following advice on the subject: The mix that I use for MOST Scadoxus seeds is as follows: Start with most any sandy, well draining mix. I include perlite, sand, peat, and a little redwood Add an equal amount of ³fine² mulch - I use the commercial Super soil. Mix well. Place in 4 to 6 inch deep pot/container. Place about 1/4 inch seed starting soil (Scotts or Miracle Grow or ?) Moisten. Place & space seed and press them into the soil. Do not let the ³planter²/mix dry out, but do not keep ³soggy.² Unlike other Scadoxus seeds, S. membranaceus seedlings can take two years to send up leaves. The roots will be growing (and can be gently ³checked² by impatient growers). The ³points of the young seedlings MAY be visible at the soil surface. At a full two the two and a half years, the seedlings may be transferred to pots using the same soil moisture. place a layer of mulch over the top of the soil (Most Scadoxus LOVE mulch). It has taken me several years to learn just how much Scadoxus do love mulch and how much. The rain forest growers ³like² the most. Now I have some Scadoxus blooming in 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 years (sometimes a little longer). If more information or discussion is wanted, my Email is available. From totototo@telus.net Sun Jan 22 13:34:26 2006 Message-Id: <20060122183425.HTQC8576.priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net@ray> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Lilium Pardalinum Seed Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 10:33:43 -0800 On 22 Jan 06 at 9:02, Bill Richardson wrote: > you stated: --Sow on edge in your usual seed mix--. > > I've all my seed flat with good germination. Is there an advantage in sowing on the > edge? The bulb cultivation literature contains scattered recommendations that this is a good idea with Liliaceae: tulips, lilies, fritillaries and others with flat seeds. I've done it, but cannot say what difference it made, if any. However, when sowing rare or scanty seeds, I follow such recommendations as long as they are not unreasonable. It won't hurt and it may help. Sowing on edge means handling each seed individually, a nuisance. However, if you simply broadcast these flat seeds onto a sowing medium, they tend to overlap a great deal, esp. if sown at all thickly. In the back of my mind is an article published in the RHS journal twenty five years or so ago about experiments at Kew on the germination of altstroemeria seeds. They devised a rather elaborate protocol involving temperature, moisture, and chipping the seeds at a precise location. This protocol brought the germination rate up to pretty respectable levels in comparison with the normal sow-and-forget method. My thinking is that refinements such as edge sowing may very well make a difference in borderline cases and are worth trying. Sorry, but I cannot give references to the sources of the edge-sowing recommendation; unlike the alstroemeria method, I didn't take notes! -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun Jan 22 13:39:17 2006 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Castillo" Subject: Pacific BX 114 Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:39:16 +0000 > >From Joyce Miller: > >Bulbs: > >1. Ledebouria sp? (SE) >2. Ledebouria ovalifolia (SE) >3. Liatris scariosa (S) > > >From Doug Westfall: > >4. Seed of Haemanthus albiflos, wide-leafed cv (WE) >5. Seed of Scadoxus membranaceus (S) > > >From Rob Hamilton: > >6. Seed of Cyrtanthus breviflorus, sow now (S) >7. Seed of Tecophilaea cyanocrocus 'leichtlinii', sow now (W) >8. Seed of Moraea spathulata, so early spring (S) _________________________________________________________________ Consigue aquí las mejores y mas recientes ofertas de trabajo en América Latina y USA: http://latam.msn.com/empleos/ From ixia@dcsi.net.au Sun Jan 22 18:32:13 2006 Message-Id: <005901c61fac$14c3a580$0201a8c0@Ixia> From: "Bill Richardson" Subject: sowing seed on edge Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:32:10 +1100 Hi Rodger, thanks for the reply. I have previously tried Hippeastrum and Agapanthus seed on their edge but found it made no difference for me, so I was interested to know if you had found an advantage with Lilium. It's worth following recommendations though, especially with rare seed and I usuallly try different methods to compare results. "Sowing on edge means handling each seed individually, a nuisance. However, if you simply broadcast these flat seeds onto a sowing medium, they tend to overlap a great deal, esp. if sown at all thickly." Yes, that's one of the problems with planting too many seed to a container. Nice to here from you. regards, Bill Richardson, Ixia King Summer 16c-42c. at present West Gippsland, Victoria, Australia ixia@dcsi.net.au Ixia Website: www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia From eagle85@flash.net Sun Jan 22 19:59:34 2006 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Growing Haemanthus/scadoxus from seed Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 16:53:38 -0800 Sorry for the "typos". I was in too much of a hurry and did not "proof" the thing! I'm certain that all get the meaning. Doug From jimmckenney@starpower.net Sun Jan 22 20:18:01 2006 Message-Id: <4k6l9v$4ljmam@smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Lilium Pardalinum Seed Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:17:58 -0500 David Griffiths, who was responsible for raising the 100,000 or so lily seedlings from which a dozen or so clones were selected to be the named Bellingham hybrid lilies of the early part of the twentieth century (and for those of you who don't know them, the Bellingham hybrids almost certainly have Lilium pardalinum in their background) certainly didn't take the time to place each seed on its edge. Griffiths' general recommendation was to scatter the seed in drills one inch deep in August and to expect germination (i.e. leaves above ground) the following spring. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where some Lilium pardalinum seed started last spring are still in the refrigerator, leaves and all. From plantlady@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Mon Jan 23 01:11:43 2006 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: Delphinium seed Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 23:12:54 -0700 Hello, Your findings with Delphinium seed don't really surprise me Mary Sue. I'm starting to find that their viability is much longer as well and only needs the right conditions to trigger germination. Delph zalil did not germinate for me until spending a winter outdoors (zone 3). We had heavy snowfall that year too. I also found recently, using Alberto's method of germination, that the area surrounding the delph seed became stained with whatever was being washed off of the seed. Might this indicate that their is an inhibitor on the seed coat? That particular seed was from 2003 as well and I got 100% germination in 27 days, providing cooler temps. However this was seed from my garden and I've always better germination rates with my seed. Linda Foulis Okotoks, AB Canada Are we going to have winter this year? My camassia are still coming up! From kellyo@wetrock.com Mon Jan 23 04:42:29 2006 Message-Id: <43D43596.14851.6B343AA@kellyo.wetrock.com> From: "Kelly O'Neill" Subject: Lilium Pardalinum Seed Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 01:47:02 -0800 > Griffiths' general recommendation was to scatter the seed in drills one > inch deep in August and to expect germination (i.e. leaves above ground) > the following spring. I seem to recall Lilium needing light for germ., and so, shallow sowing is my usual plan. An inch deep would keep moisture consistent - very helpful. I am tempted to try deeper. I may have missed the original message suggesting edge sowing. For thin flat seeds that put out a root in the cold season and then wait until spring to send up a leaf (like these lilies, I think), I would expect the old seed shell would be gone or mush by the time the leaf pushed up. I wonder what the reason edge sowing might be helpful. If there was overlapping, that might lead to rot. Maybe the procedure just helps avoid overlap? If it was explained earlier, no need to repeat. KellyO Kelly O'Neill Wet Rock Gardens Flower Farm U-Pick and more at the farm (open by appointment November thru February): 2877 N 19th Street Springfield, Oregon 97477 To contact us: * Business Office for mail or by appointment only: gardens@wetrock.com * 1950 Yolanda AVE http://www.wetrock.com * Springfield, Oregon 97477 From dells@voicenet.com Mon Jan 23 07:11:19 2006 Message-Id: <20060123121119.6E36C4C012@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 114 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 07:11:29 -0500 Dear Alberto, I am confused. Dell -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Alberto Castillo Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 1:39 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 114 > >From Joyce Miller: > >Bulbs: > >1. Ledebouria sp? (SE) >2. Ledebouria ovalifolia (SE) >3. Liatris scariosa (S) > > >From Doug Westfall: > >4. Seed of Haemanthus albiflos, wide-leafed cv (WE) >5. Seed of Scadoxus membranaceus (S) > > >From Rob Hamilton: > >6. Seed of Cyrtanthus breviflorus, sow now (S) >7. Seed of Tecophilaea cyanocrocus 'leichtlinii', sow now (W) >8. Seed of Moraea spathulata, so early spring (S) _________________________________________________________________ Consigue aquí las mejores y mas recientes ofertas de trabajo en América Latina y USA: http://latam.msn.com/empleos/ _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From crinum@libero.it Mon Jan 23 08:39:55 2006 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Grossi" Subject: Pacific BX 114 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:39:52 +0100 Dear Dell, What do you mean? Alberto ---------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : "Pacific Bulb Society" pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Mon, 23 Jan 2006 07:11:29 -0500 Subject : Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 114 > Dear Alberto, > > I am confused. > > Dell > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of Alberto Castillo > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 1:39 PM > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 114 > > > > >From Joyce Miller: > > > >Bulbs: > > > >1. Ledebouria sp? (SE) > >2. Ledebouria ovalifolia (SE) > >3. Liatris scariosa (S) > > > > >From Doug Westfall: > > > >4. Seed of Haemanthus albiflos, wide-leafed cv (WE) > >5. Seed of Scadoxus membranaceus (S) > > > > >From Rob Hamilton: > > > >6. Seed of Cyrtanthus breviflorus, sow now (S) > >7. Seed of Tecophilaea cyanocrocus 'leichtlinii', sow now (W) > >8. Seed of Moraea spathulata, so early spring (S) > > _________________________________________________________________ > Consigue aquí las mejores y mas recientes ofertas de trabajo en América > Latina y USA: http://latam.msn.com/empleos/ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > Alberto Grossi Italy From jimmckenney@starpower.net Mon Jan 23 10:23:08 2006 Message-Id: <4iore0$5sso92@smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Lilium Pardalinum Seed Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:23:02 -0500 Kelly, the western North American lilies do not need light to germinate. Late in March of 2005 I started about a dozen lots of seed of western American lilies. The seed was from the 2005 seed exchange of the North American Lily Society. The seed was placed in a moist mix of crushed granite and pine bark in a zip lock bag. The bags were placed in the refrigerator. Most began to grow during the summer, and by autumn some had started to put up foliage. They got no light during this period except the brief bit when the refrigerator door was opened. The seeds themselves are still intact in many cases, still attached to the seedling now a year later. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 where we had the peculiar pleasure of hearing rain overnight in January. From dkramb@badbear.com Mon Jan 23 13:23:04 2006 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20060123132033.01ce2340@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Lilium Pardalinum Seed Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:23:09 -0500 All this talk of Lilium has me wondering about a species I tried years ago... Lilium grayii, I think it's called. Does anyone have this in their (woodland) garden? I could never get the seeds to germinate (obtained through NEWFS). Dennis in Cincinnati From jimmckenney@starpower.net Mon Jan 23 14:48:52 2006 Message-Id: <000401c62056$0952dea0$ce022c42@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Lilium Pardalinum Seed Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:48:50 -0500 Check the wiki, Dennis. There you will see some photos of Lilium grayi growing in my garden. Seed of Lilium grayi and seed of Lilium pardalinum germinate under very different conditions. They both germinate hypogeally, but Lilium grayi seed requires roughly three months of moist WARM conditions to form a tiny bulb. Then, after about three months of cold conditions, it produces the first leaves. Note that the name is properly grayi, not grayii. Lilium grayi may well be a relict species: it seems to grow much more vigorously far to the north of its current natural range. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Lilium grayi has grown well for years. From theotherjen88@msn.com Mon Jan 23 15:26:53 2006 Message-Id: From: "JENNIFER HILDEBRAND" Subject: A friendly BX payment reminder Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:26:51 -0500 Good afternoon, I hope that everyone is having a pleasant new year! Your PBS board members just had our latest board meeting, and we want you all to know how much we appreciate your support. This was also an opportunity for us to see that our new treasurer, Arnold Trachtenburg, is on the ball! He's got a list of a few members who are just slightly behind with their BX payments. The holidays are always a hectic time, but if you all could take a minute to dig through that huge stack of papers awaiting your attention (you all know you have one!) to see if you have any outstanding BX slips buried in there, we'd appreciate it. If you're pretty sure that you owe money but can't track down the slip, send Arnold an email at arnold@nj.rr.com. Immediately after this message is posted he might be a bit flooded, so please be patient if there is a slight delay to his response. And remember - we're happy to accept your payment via PayPal, which I find to be very easy and which allows you to pay using a credit card. PayPal payments can be sent to theotherjen88@msn.com. Best, Jennifer PBS Secretary From jimmckenney@starpower.net Mon Jan 23 22:05:19 2006 Message-Id: <001401c62093$01a5c400$aa012c42@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: What goes around comes around... Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 22:05:17 -0500 I've mentioned David Griffiths in these posts a number of times. I often wonder how many people know about him and his work. The short version is that in the early twentieth century, the US Department of Agriculture, in an effort to establish new commercial crops, began a series of endeavors to establish the cultivation of flower bulbs here in the United States. David Griffiths was the Department's point man for these activities. Although there were sporadic efforts to work out programs in several parts of the country, the centerpiece of the effort was the Bellingham Research Station in Washington State. To put things into a broader historical perspective, Griffiths died in 1935. Here's what prompts me to bring this up. I was talking to a hybridizer friend recently, and they mentioned that they had received absolutely no royalties for some bulbs which are now widely grown and marketed. In this particular case, the hybridizer and marketer are good friends, and the hybridizer had in effect told the marketer that royalties were not expected. When Griffiths was managing the development of commercial bulb culture here in the US, the source of the cultivars used was the Netherlands. Dutch bulbs were imported into the US and used as the foundation stocks for the crops to be developed in this country. The subject of royalties to the Dutch developers of these stocks was never mentioned, and doubtless no royalties were ever paid. One of the issues much discussed in the media these days is the problem of pirated, black market music and video CDs which originate in Asia. It seems to me that what those Asian black marketers are doing is no different than what was done to establish commercial bulb cultivation in this country. I wonder if the Dutch press in the early part of the twentieth century had articles condemning our theft of their bulbs? How do the rest of you feel about this? How would you feel if you found out that someone was selling a plant you raised without your permission? And do you think my comparison of the black market video industry and what was done to establish commercial bulb culture in the US fair? Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where we didn't see the sun today. From khixson@nu-world.com Tue Jan 24 03:19:00 2006 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20060123235948.02cfa420@mail.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: What goes around comes around... Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 00:18:48 -0800 >Jim was trying to compare the USDA field station actions to the pirating of music CD's. To me it seems like comparing apples, oranges, and --- potatoes--all are round in at least one dimension, edible, but differ in other ways. >When Griffiths was managing the development of commercial bulb culture here >in the US, the source of the cultivars used was the Netherlands. Dutch bulbs >were imported into the US and used as the foundation stocks for the crops to >be developed in this country. The subject of royalties to the Dutch >developers of these stocks was never mentioned, and doubtless no royalties >were ever paid. > And do >you think my comparison of the black market video industry and what was >done to establish commercial bulb culture in the US fair? My understanding was that Griffiths raised the Bellingham Hybrids from seed, the seed was purchased from Purdy, who in turn purchased some of the seed from Kessler of Los Angeles. Neither of these men were likely to have purchased the plants from the dutch, as they dealt primarily (but not completely) with (western USA) native plants. In any case, after raising them from seed, the original seller normally has no claim on the seedlings. I don't know specifics of the stocks of tulips, narcissus, etc that Griffiths tried to produce, but my assumption is that he was trying to develop varieties better adapted to american growing conditions, and raised much of his stock from seed. If this is so, the same standard applies. The piraters of black market CDs do not add value, only attempt to undercut the authorized distributers. To the best of my knowledge, Griffiths was adding value by selecting varieties he hoped would be more adapted to american conditions and market demands. At least in the case of the Bellingham Hybrids, he did so by raising the lilies from seed purchased from american sources. Ken From buj.joschko@freenet.de Tue Jan 24 05:06:41 2006 Message-Id: From: "Hans und Babs Joschko" Subject: seeds of Hypoxis Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:07:19 +0100 Hi all , I have in this time some ( really few ) seeds of a unknown Hypoxis . This motherplants are collected from a friend of mine in Argentina / Prov. Catamarca , Sierra Ancasti in last year. The plants had flowered here after some weeks ( small ,yellow) and now the seeds are ripe . If anybody is interested for some of this seeds please contact me privat. ( buj.joschko@freenet.de ) Many greetings Hans From jshields@indy.net Tue Jan 24 09:02:18 2006 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20060124084808.02a65978@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: What goes around comes around... Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:02:14 -0500 Moral obligations are one thing. Legal obligations are a different matter. The legal aspects of "pirating" are simple: if a plant clone, variety, seed strain, etc., is not protected by a plant patent, once sold to anyone it is in the public domain. An individual breeder might contract with a particular grower or seller to collect royalties on a new variety, but unless the plant is protected by a plant patent, anyone else could buy (legally) a bulb from the seller and propagate from it freely without being bound by the other grower's contract with the breeder. The Dutch have what they call "Breeders Rights" which -- unless actually plant patents -- are probably a matter of Dutch business agreements. I'd be curious about their legal status. John Grimshaw worked in The Netherlands in the plant trade for a couple years; John, what can you tell us about Dutch "Breeders Rights?" Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer; I did work in the pharmaceutical industry for 28 years however, and there I dealt extensively with patent attorneys regarding patents and other aspects of intellectual property. I'm inventor or co-inventor on about a dozen or so patents. Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jimmckenney@starpower.net Tue Jan 24 09:50:37 2006 Message-Id: <001801c620f5$89052550$aa002c42@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: What goes around comes around... Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:50:35 -0500 In response to Ken Hixon's comments: I'm sorry I did not make it clear that I was not talking about material raised from seed. Because I mentioned Griffiths recently in the context of his lilies-from-seed activities, it's easy to see how someone might have made the connection. No, I was talking about his use of clonal Dutch cultivars as foundation stocks. Ken also wrote " but my assumption is that he was trying to develop varieties better adapted to american growing conditions, and raised much of his stock from seed." Griffiths both raised from seed and propagated vegetatively. The cultivars he used were the then standard Dutch cultivars/clones. I'm not aware of any effort by him to raise new cultivars from seed of tulips or even daffodils. Griffiths was focused on what the market wanted, and what the market wanted was Dutch bulbs. Ken probably has not seen the material I have at hand - two nicely bound, thick volumes of Griffiths' publications for the USDA. These document in sometimes surprising detail the activities of the work at Bellingham and elsewhere. One title in particular I want to mention: Bulbs from Seed. This is a 32 page pamphlet describing Griffiths' experiences in raising bulbs from seed. It's a good introduction to the process for anyone starting out with this activity. I've started to scan this pamphlet, and when I finish I'll post it on my web site for everyone to see. The scanning will go slowly because the pamphlet is tightly bound in its volume. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where temperatures up into the 50s are predicted for today. From jimmckenney@starpower.net Tue Jan 24 10:10:01 2006 Message-Id: <001901c620f8$3f81d790$aa002c42@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: What goes around comes around... Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:10:00 -0500 In response to Jim Shields comments: Jim, I'm not a lawyer either - I guess it's very apparent. When I wrote that post, I was thinking of the rights to cultivars as if they were copyright rights. My understanding of copyright for print materials is that - please excuse the clumsy phrasing - the process of creating a work eligible for copyright and the existence of the copyright are coeval. In other words, copyright for a work does not exist as a result of registering the work for copyright, it's always there, so-to-speak. The formal registration process simply makes it easier for the lawyers to do their stuff. You mentioned patents: I suppose the underlying philosophy for that process if very different. With regard to plant patents, I've often wondered what, at a very practical level, is being patented. From a functional point of view, it often seems that it's the name of the cultivar which is being patented. If someone wants to sell the same plant under a different name, what's to stop them? Does the technology exist to conclusively say that any two plant entities are identical? For all we hear about DNA testing in the media, does such technology exist for humans? I don't think so. I'm reminded of the fuss raised by studies which purportedly linked Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings. Those in favor of the Jefferson-Hemings liaison insisted that the DNA tests proved that it happened. Those opposed still say that the only thing the DNA tests show is that a Jefferson male (in other words, not necessarily Thomas) was involved. Can we do any better with plants? Jim McKenney From jshields@indy.net Tue Jan 24 10:54:07 2006 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20060124102844.01d98f00@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: What goes around comes around... Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:54:03 -0500 Hi Jim McK. and all, Copyrights, Trade Marks, and Patents are three quite distinct forms of intellectual property. Written materials are implicitly copyrighted as soon as recorded. Alphabets are explicitly exempt from copyright. One or two words are not likely to be recognized as copyrighted out of context, but I've not looked into that in detail. Trade marks must be formally registered with the US Patent Office to have any legal status. Trade marks allowed to be used without the accompanying (R) mark may lapse into the public domain, e.g., I think that existing trade mark registrations on "coke" and "xerox" have been challenged in the past. Patents on plants are still -- in my mind! -- a bit vague. However, they definitely have to be formally applied for and can be rejected by the Patent Office. A plant is not protected in any way unless the formal, legal patenting process is followed. Once a plant has been released into commerce, it cannot be patented retroactively. Plant patents can protect a clone or protect a seed line. The restrictions on use will vary, depending what is protected in the patent. A patented variety (strain or clone) must have a patent name, and it must be unique and not have been previously used, e.g., as a trade mark or as a cultivar name. So a given plant could have three names: its designation in the patent, a trade mark, and a registered cultivar name. The first two NAMES are legally protected; the registered cultivar name is not legally protected, but is only protected under the gentlemen's agreement of the ICNCP. One can use DNA to tell which herd of elephants poached ivory came from. One can identify paternity of humans from DNA. One could probably identify particular clones of tulips or daffodils from DNA, if anyone wanted to spend the money on it. The DNA technology is there to differentiate between individuals from the same species, population, etc., but the will and financial resources to exploit it may not be. Clear as mud? Jim Shields At 10:10 AM 1/24/2006 -0500, you wrote: >In response to Jim Shields comments: >...... >When I wrote that post, I was thinking of the rights to cultivars as if they >were copyright rights. My understanding of copyright for print materials is >that - please excuse the clumsy phrasing - the process of creating a work >eligible for copyright and the existence of the copyright are coeval. >...... ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From khixson@nu-world.com Tue Jan 24 14:10:22 2006 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20060124102330.030f9eb0@mail.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: [PBS] OT? What goes around comes around... Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:10:00 -0800 Hi, All. Hope this isn't getting off topic, but it does relate to any plant grown, and the developers of new plants >.Copyrights, Trade Marks, and Patents are three quite distinct forms of >intellectual property. And, unfortunately, do not "protect" a plant that has a patent, etc. They only provide a legal basis for a lawsuit, at the holder's expense. If the holder of a copyright, trademark, or patent chooses to go to the expense of a lawsuit, and provide legal verification that the plant in question is in fact the one covered by the legal status granted, the violator looses the lawsuit, and the holder can collect damages. The damages must bear some relationship to the actual damage suffered, which is in itself a difficult thing to establish. If a small nursery propagates and distributes twenty roses which are patented, how much will the court grant in damages? Depending on the court, it could be nothing, or a few hundred dollars. The biggest damage is for the legal fees involved in prosecuting the case in the first case. If the small nursery involved doesn't use the trade marked, copyrighted or patented name, and simply claims the plant is a seedling of the variety in question, even DNA evidence may not provide a legal basis for damages. One related example is a fruit tree catalog I recently received. They have trade marked American names for fruit varieties originally named in Russia, Turkey, etc, with the original names given in the description of the variety--at least for some of the varieties. Another example was given by my nursery management professor. A Portland, Oregon nursery trademarked the name of a holly variety-- Possibly Rederly (TM). (I've forgotten, it's been years) For years other growers assumed it was a patented variety and wouldn't grow it. Then someone realized it was trademarked, and could be propagated and sold, but the name Rederly (TM) couldn't be used, so they simply renamed it, and sold their plants under their name, so there were several names for the same variety of holly, each nursery using their own name. All perfectly legal under the law. Another question is, what were the laws of the two countries at the time all this was happening? It has been frequently been noted that the Dutch show no hesitation about taking American lily varieties, renaming them, and distributing them without paying royalties. They also use names already in commerce, such as L.. Red Knight. There have been at least three Red Knight lilies, so which one are you getting if you choose to buy one? If you buy Red Night, what will you get? Are they deliberately trying to trade on the name of an established and well liked variety, or are they simply so lazy that they don't bother to check with the well known registration authority (for lilies, the British Royal Horticultural Society). Finally, even if the varieties involved were protected in some way, is there any reason to believe that the Dutch growers involved felt it was worth pursuing legal action? If there was legal protection, and the Dutch chose not to bother, the law ceases to be applicable. All this happened long ago, so to pursue it now, by people who have little legal stake in the outcome, seems rather futile. If it wasn't done at the time, why now? Ken From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Tue Jan 24 14:25:48 2006 Message-Id: <014501c6211b$f8ce6fb0$254e0e52@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: What goes around comes around... Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:25:43 -0000 I am a bit pushed for time, so will just say that European Plant Breeders' Rights are very similar to the US Plant Patents, supposedly protecting a PBR plant from illegal propagation (i.e. without licence from the originator). They are valid throughout the European Union. more information can be found at: http://www.defra.gov.uk/planth/pvs/pbrguide.htm John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 SNOWDROP OPEN DAYS AT COLESBOURNE PARK 2006 Every weekend in February, Saturday and Sunday only, from 1 pm 4/5, 11/12,18/19, 25/26 Groups tours by arrangement Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk > From coffeecamp@optusnet.com.au Tue Jan 24 15:43:46 2006 Message-Id: <000c01c62126$dba16860$0f75a4cb@geoff2abba5c65> From: "Geoffrey Barnier" Subject: OT - Global Warming Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 07:42:32 +1100 I heard a talk by an environmental scientist from the Commonwealth Scientific & Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO) recently who explained succinctly what we're up against in environmental warming: The atmosphere is getting warmer. Therefore, it can hold more water vapour. Consequently there'll be longer intervals between rain. And when it does rain, it'll be a deluge. We'll have greater extremes in weather. Many species of plants & animals will become extinct as they will be unable to adapt to a warmer climate of even a couple of degrees. There will be an increase in environmental weeds and pest animals/insects as mice, mosquitoes, rats, ants, cockroaches etc adapt very quickly. In short chaps, the future generations can look forward to a depleted world with lots of rubbishy plants & animals with diseases like malaria occurring in places like Italy. The Netherlands has said that if sea levels continue to rise as they have been doing over the last 25 years, then the whole of their country will be under water within 20 years as they do not have the technology to keep the sea back. New Zealand is giving refuge already to some Pacific Islanders whose low lying islands are being submerged. When a European environmentalist was asked what he would do if the sea level continued to rise at the present rate, he replied 'move to the Alps'. Cheers, Geoff in Sub-tropical North Eastern NSW, Australia in flood last week, 33C & sunny today & with more than 50% environmental weed on his 2 hectare property & trouble with ants. From gardenersview@earthlink.net Tue Jan 24 18:00:44 2006 Message-Id: From: "Terry Hernstrom" Subject: OT - Global Warming Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:00:42 -0800 This talk is all hypothetical rubbish, and frankly its getting a little tiresome. In my youth, the 1960's, Erlich and his ilk were predicting a new ice age and we were all going to freeze to death. Global models are changing on a daily basis. There is no consensus no matter how loud extremists holler. What if, just what if the sun is getting hotter and ready to explode??? Not much we can do about that is there? In the meantime I'm going appreciate the warm winters and get to grow those exotic crinims, eucharis, etc. A Pimm Cup to all, Terence Hernstrom -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Geoffrey Barnier Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 12:43 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] OT - Global Warming I heard a talk by an environmental scientist from the Commonwealth Scientific & Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO) recently who explained succinctly what we're up against in environmental warming: The atmosphere is getting warmer. Therefore, it can hold more water vapour. Consequently there'll be longer intervals between rain. And when it does rain, it'll be a deluge. We'll have greater extremes in weather. Many species of plants & animals will become extinct as they will be unable to adapt to a warmer climate of even a couple of degrees. There will be an increase in environmental weeds and pest animals/insects as mice, mosquitoes, rats, ants, cockroaches etc adapt very quickly. In short chaps, the future generations can look forward to a depleted world with lots of rubbishy plants & animals with diseases like malaria occurring in places like Italy. The Netherlands has said that if sea levels continue to rise as they have been doing over the last 25 years, then the whole of their country will be under water within 20 years as they do not have the technology to keep the sea back. New Zealand is giving refuge already to some Pacific Islanders whose low lying islands are being submerged. When a European environmentalist was asked what he would do if the sea level continued to rise at the present rate, he replied 'move to the Alps'. Cheers, Geoff in Sub-tropical North Eastern NSW, Australia in flood last week, 33C & sunny today & with more than 50% environmental weed on his 2 hectare property & trouble with ants. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ixia@dcsi.net.au Tue Jan 24 18:23:07 2006 Message-Id: <011a01c6213d$1e4ef310$0201a8c0@Ixia> From: "Bill Richardson" Subject: OT - Global Warming Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:22:55 +1100 Hi Terence, hey, I'm with you. Even if we could find out who or what caused the problems, it's probably too late to undo them. I'm sitting in the sun today at 33c. It's going to be 42c tomorrow. Who caused all this heat? I'll have to cover some of my plants. Lovely. I haven't had a Pimms for years!! regards, Bill Richardson, Ixia King Summer 16c-42c. at present West Gippsland, Victoria, Australia ixia@dcsi.net.au Ixia Website: www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Hernstrom" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 10:00 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] OT - Global Warming > This talk is all hypothetical rubbish, and frankly its getting a little > tiresome. In my youth, the 1960's, Erlich and his ilk were predicting a new > ice age and we were all going to freeze to death. Global models are changing > on a daily basis. There is no consensus no matter how loud extremists > holler. What if, just what if the sun is getting hotter and ready to > explode??? Not much we can do about that is there? In the meantime I'm going > appreciate the warm winters and get to grow those exotic crinims, eucharis, > etc. > > A Pimm Cup to all, > > Terence Hernstrom From msittner@mcn.org Tue Jan 24 19:49:42 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060124161958.035ae1e8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Romulea/Zephyranthes wiki pictures and blooming Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 16:36:58 -0800 Hi, To get us back on topic, in between rainstorms there is a lot blooming in my garden. Some of these things are earlier than usual. Romulea hallii is finished, but I now have blooms on Romulea diversiformis, R. flava, R. monticola, R. tetragona, one of my R. kombergensis (I have two different clones), R. bulbocodium, and R. tortulosa. Some of the other species have buds as well. I also have R. minutiflora blooming too. I had figured out what that was probably going to be from its corm when dormant and was disappointed since it was grown from NARGS seed exchange seed and was supposed to be something a lot more exciting. But it seems to be a small violet flower, not a great big bright yellow one with wonderful markings. Blooming yesterday for the first time from Silverhill seeds after four different seed tries from various sources that turned our to be wrong (one I couldn't get to germinate, so only two were clearly wrong) is the real Romulea tortulosa tortulosa. Hopefully I can get pictures of both on the wiki soon so you will all understand my disappointment with the one batch of seed. I assumed since it germinated and grew well it was probably something else and then when I looked at the dormant corms I was sure of it. In the meantime I have added some habitat pictures from Cameron McMaster of Romuleas he has seen in the Roggeveld. Once again I raise the question to our South African members. When is there going to be a field guide for this area? It must be amazing when everything is in bloom. Where is Ouberg Road? What an experience i to see these in the wild. Look for Romulea atrandra, R. diversiformis, R. kombergensis, R. subfistulosa, and R. unifolia. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanRomuleas And blooming earlier than it ever has (mid January) is Zephyranthes atamasco. I know we already have it well pictured on the wiki, but I couldn't resist adding one more picture since it is such a pretty thing. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Zephyranthes Mark Wilcox recently added a gorgeous picture of Hippeastrum × 'Calimero' as well. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HippeastrumHybrids Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Tue Jan 24 22:50:36 2006 Message-Id: <20060125035036.98508.qmail@web34313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: OT - Global Warming/malaria/DDT Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:50:36 -0800 (PST) Hello, I have not written in before, and will provide and intro when I get time to download some Polygonatum photos to the wiki. (P.species, un-ID'd on the wiki is zanlanscianense.) > with diseases like malaria occurring in > places like Italy. Italy had huge problems with malaria in Roman times and also during WW2. Italy was only recently(2002?) declared malaria free. People used to be dusted with DDT to to keep themselves free of the mosquitoes and other vectors of the disease. There are also a few books about Italy's history with malaria. Contrary to Carsons claims in the Silent Spring, DDT was found to be relatively harmless. Theobromine, Caffeine, and Nicotine are all more or equally harmful in comparable sized doses(ld50). Climates change, weather changes. Russia is currently experiencing record cold as is other parts of Europe. Some other places are experiencing abnormal warmth. Humans have only really kept records for about 150 years in a minimum of places in comparison to the whole of the world. Extremes in weather seem common in researching weather data for many areas. Here in Manhattan, KS at the turn of the century the rainfall patterns would be minimal one month and flodding the next. Also in the 30's, 80's and this year too. What I don't understand is how we(humans) can cause so many problems when all matter is already there and cannot be created or destroyed, only rearranged. I argue this with my chemistry professors, but get no answers. I understand that fossil fuels releases the carbons and all but lots fo that gets used in another manner in other reactions. It does not all form CO2. The vanishing water could be taken up by the 6.5 Billion people on earth. With each of us containing 70-some % water I would think that a substantial amount taken from the Earth's surface. My father worked on the halon program for the U.S. Airforce and did studies on the CFC's also. In studies, in a controlled environment, the CFC's did break down O3(ozone) but in nature the chlorine can react with other elements. Al Gore tried to blame blindness and glaucoma in various animal species (and humans?) in southern Chile and Argentina on the ozone hole, but it turned out that it was a very bad case of pink eye infecting the animals. According to one chemistry professor here, and I have not checked to much into this, the ozone only gets worse in the summer of the southern hemisphere, he says that it is mostly 'normal'(whatever that may be, I would not judge our 30-40 years of records against the unknown estimated 5 billion years of earths history) the rest of the year. Scientists have only really been able to view the ozone levels since about the 60's or 70's, right? A solution to the rising waters, if there were no objections, Kansas could become a new inland sea!! I would'nt mind Sorry that this provides my first response to the list. Plants are better, especially bulbs, hardy ones, not the ever-growing collection of tropical bulbs taking up house space. All the best, Aaron Floden Manhattan, KS (KSU) z5/6, garden in eastern Kansas Z5/6 --- Geoffrey Barnier wrote: > The atmosphere is getting warmer. Therefore, it can > hold more water vapour. Consequently there'll be > longer intervals between rain. And when it does > rain, it'll be a deluge. We'll have greater > extremes in weather. with diseases like malaria occurring in > places like Italy. > > Cheers, > > Geoff in Sub-tropical North Eastern NSW, Australia > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jimmckenney@starpower.net Wed Jan 25 17:31:22 2006 Message-Id: <000701c621ff$1283ea50$e9032c42@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Best bulb fertilizer--Archive Search Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:31:22 -0500 Dear Mary Sue and others, I've been trying to use Mary Sue's search formula, +[pbs] [search terms] site:lists.ibiblio.org on Google today without much success. Even when I used the example given, i.e. searching on the word fertilizer, I got only 46 hits instead of the 261 Mary Sue reported. I also searched on words which I'm sure I've seen in pbs postings, but without finding any. Does anyone have any idea what I am doing wrong? I've played around with the spacing, I've copied and pasted directly from Mary Sue's email, I've monkeyed around with the search terms: so far, very little success. Jim McKenney From pcamusa@hotmail.com Wed Jan 25 20:58:21 2006 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: Best bulb fertilizer--Archive Search Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:58:19 -0500 Hmmmm. What browser are you using? Not that it should matter, but I sometimes see differences for certain sites. +[pbs] [hippeastrum] site:lists.ibiblio.org got me 823 hits using both Firefox and IE from a PC. 255 hits using 'fertilizer'. Interesting that the spaces are unnecessary: +[pbs][hippeastrum]site:lists.ibiblio.org seems to work just as well. Smart Google. I hope a more savvy member can help. Regards, -Phil >From: "Jim McKenney" >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" >Subject: Re: [pbs] Best bulb fertilizer--Archive Search >Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:31:22 -0500 > >Dear Mary Sue and others, > >I've been trying to use Mary Sue's search formula, +[pbs] [search terms] >site:lists.ibiblio.org on Google today without much success. Even when I >used the example given, i.e. searching on the word fertilizer, I got only >46 >hits instead of the 261 Mary Sue reported. > >I also searched on words which I'm sure I've seen in pbs postings, but >without finding any. > >Does anyone have any idea what I am doing wrong? I've played around with >the >spacing, I've copied and pasted directly from Mary Sue's email, I've >monkeyed around with the search terms: so far, very little success. > > >Jim McKenney > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jimmckenney@starpower.net Wed Jan 25 21:23:21 2006 Message-Id: <000901c6221f$7acfb100$fc002c42@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Best bulb fertilizer--Archive Search Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:23:21 -0500 Thanks, Phil. I'm using IE. Using your search for Hippeastrum, I got 823 hits. Using fertilizer, I got 243. Using some other terms, I got variable results. Evidently there is a bit of a learning curve involved in selecting the search terms. For instance, I deliberately looked for something obscure in an old post of mine and found "multi-course meal" in an April 2005 post. A search on "multi-course meal" did not find that post. But a search on "meal" did. Thanks again for our response; I'll keep playing with it. Jim McKenney From msittner@mcn.org Wed Jan 25 23:31:32 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060125202038.0363b948@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Calochortus invenustus in Nevada? Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:31:19 -0800 Hi, This list gets a fair amount of spam and sob stories/contest ruses and viruses which we administrators delete. We also get a lot of requests for help with information about something that has been discussed on our list and found from Google. If we know the answer we respond or if we can think of someone who might know then forward the question to that person. Otherwise we suggest the non member join our list and asks the question. Most of the time we never hear from those people again, but a few of our members have joined that way. I'm making an exception this time because I am a Calochortus fan. I guess that is administrator privilege. There are two people currently working on a book on Calochortus that I am aware of and I'm a good candidate for buying both of them. One of them sent this non-member question to our list. If anyone knows the answer please contact Brad Carter. His email address is bradcarter at aol.com. His message is below. Mary Sue Hi, I have heard that C. invenustus grows in the Bodie Hills in Nevada. Can anyone confirm seeing it there? Brad Carter From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Thu Jan 26 01:30:57 2006 Message-Id: <20060126063056.12516.qmail@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: introduction Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:30:56 -0800 (PST) Hello, Sorry for the last post but I was not trying to be argumentative or political. I am not a Republican or a Democrat and we'll leave it at that. I am Aaron Floden, I currently live in Manhattan, Kansas. An waful place that I want to move away from. I am attending Kansas State University for....still undecided, but focusing currently on Biochemistry and a minor in Horticulture. Other intersts besides plants include, food(all kinds- I worked for a short while in Italy, literally at the foot of the Alps), chocolate(Pralus, Michel Cluizel, Valrhona!) music(all kinds), cars, books, and my original college plan was the Kansas City Art Institute, but I decided against it. I still draw, paint, photograph, sculpt, and more in spare time(where is it curently though?) Polygonatum photos will come eventually. My garden is in eastern Kansas (Z5/6) just south of Kansas City, one half hour(depending on how fast you drive) south of Jim Waddick, in a completely different climate, soil, and all the rest. I grow everything I can. But since this is bulbs I will mention mostly those. I grow most things in the ground when possible and have wintered an amazing array of 'non-hardy' plants. I grow many Amaryllidaceae, Araceae, Iridaceae, Colchicaceae, Convallariaceae, Hyacinthaceae, Ranunculaceae, etc. Specifically though,Allium, Agapanthus, Tulbaghia, Amaryllis, Clivia, Cyrtanthus, Galanthus, Haemanthus, Hippeastrum, Scadoxus, Nerine, Narcissus, Lycoris, Hymenocallis, Arisaema, Arum, Amorphphallus, Iris species, Crocus, Gladiolus, Crocosmia, Colchicum, Convallaria, Polygonatum, Smilacina(Maianthemum), Disporum(& Prosartes), Reineckia, Rohdea, Hosta species, Hemerocallis species, Hyacinthus, Bellevalia, Brimurea, Hyacinthella, Scilla, Ledebouria, Clematis species(specifically section viorna), Hepatica(only acutiloba which I have selected color forms from the wild for the past 5 years, the others are either too weak or just will not grow) Paeonia, Trillium, Zingiber, Hedychium, Cyclamen, etc. This is only a skimming of the the sypmtoms of my disease! There are currently about five thousand differnt taxa(acquisitions of some of the same species) growing in the garden and in the many pots that must be hauled in and out each year, a real pain. Most of the shade plants are grown under limbed up black walnut and Maclura pomifera, under these are many shrubs and small trees. Collections of note are the wild Hamamelis vernalis and virginiana, Styrax, Acer, Magnolia species(all young), Aesculus, Cercis, and Viburnum.(Sounds grand when you read back through it but it really is not all that impressive. I much prefer viewing other peoples gardens than my own.) Current interests( this month) are Hippeastrum and Ledebouria, and as spring comes closer the focus will be Hepatica and Trillium, followed by Polygonatum, and whatever else looks good. I have an interest in variegated plants as long as they are not ugly, nice marginal variegation is good or regular splashing, not contorted, twisted, virusy-looking, but to each there own. I have many papers on Ledebouria but I cannot ID those I have with the papers. I have about a dozen sp. sitting in pots and cannot ID them without a good paper or photos. I know I have coriacea, socialis (different forms?), undulata, cooperi, maculata(Drimiopsis), and the others with spotted leaves. I love the Muscari, Hyacinthus, Bellevalia, and Hyacinthella. I have about two dozen different ones that may bloom this spring, but definitely next. On 'non-hardy' plants I have wintered Zingiber mioga since 2000. It has taken temps down to around -15 at times and never lost any of the plants. Commercial forms have died but this clone has survived, and sported a variegate. Another plant that surprised me was Narcissus watieri. It bloomed last year for the first time. Adorable little Narcissus. I planted the bulbs directly into the garden in part shade in a mostly unamended heavy clay and left them. I am sure there are many more, but I have class in a few hours and need some sleep. All the best, Aaron Floden Mahattan, KS US Z5 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Theladygardens@aol.com Thu Jan 26 01:43:16 2006 Message-Id: <99.6eb9dae1.3109c97c@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: introduction Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 01:43:08 EST Welcome, You definitely sound addicted enough to the love of plants to belong to this group! Enjoy, there are so many knowledgeable people on this group, willing to share their knowledge with the rest of us. Carolyn, in CA From pcamusa@hotmail.com Thu Jan 26 07:41:41 2006 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: Best bulb fertilizer--Archive Search Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:41:40 -0500 It looks like Google has brought back the command line. Their cheatsheet for boolean operators, etc. is at: http://www.google.com/help/cheatsheet.html I'm already finding things more easily. -Phil >From: "Jim McKenney" >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" >Subject: Re: [pbs] Best bulb fertilizer--Archive Search >Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:23:21 -0500 > >Thanks, Phil. > >I'm using IE. > >Using your search for Hippeastrum, I got 823 hits. > >Using fertilizer, I got 243. > >Using some other terms, I got variable results. > >Evidently there is a bit of a learning curve involved in selecting the >search terms. For instance, I deliberately looked for something obscure in >an old post of mine and found "multi-course meal" in an April 2005 post. A >search on "multi-course meal" did not find that post. But a search on >"meal" >did. > >Thanks again for our response; I'll keep playing with it. > >Jim McKenney >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jimmckenney@starpower.net Thu Jan 26 11:00:15 2006 Message-Id: <001701c62291$98bbbac0$d3002c42@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: introduction Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 11:00:14 -0500 Welcome to the group, Adam. You must be my long-lost brother! We'll be a great team for this list: I've tried to slip in some foodie stuff and book stuff and could use some help in that department. But you'll have to get someone else to help you with cars. I'm big on the viorna Clematis, too - we can take that up off-list. Tell us more about your plant collection and how you grow it. For instance, you mention being a student: do you have your own place or will you have to face a move when you graduate? It sounds as if most of your plants are in pots - right? I hope to hear a lot from you in the future and again, welcome! Jim McKenney From john@johnlonsdale.net Thu Jan 26 11:14:15 2006 Message-Id: From: "John Lonsdale" Subject: introduction Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 11:14:21 -0500 Hi Jim, He must be a very long-lost brother - his name is Aaron (he's a great friend of mine)! Best, J. From jimmckenney@starpower.net Thu Jan 26 11:23:51 2006 Message-Id: <001801c62294$e4fa4930$d3002c42@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: introduction Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 11:23:50 -0500 Thanks, John, and sorry, Aaron. After wearing contact lenses continually for about forty years, I switched to glasses temporarily a few weeks ago. It's a different world. And of course, there are some things spell-check can't help you with. Jim McKenney From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Jan 26 11:47:20 2006 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Introduction Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 10:44:33 -0600 > I am Aaron Floden, I currently live in Manhattan, Kansas. > My garden is in eastern Kansas (Z5/6) just south of >Kansas City, one half hour(depending on how fast you >drive) south of Jim Waddick, in a completely different >climate, soil, and all the rest. Dear All; Seems silly to welcome Aaron to the list since I welcome him to my door more often. And surprised he wasn't already a regular (but may have been lurking?). His garden is at the southern end of Kansas City (mine in the north end of town) and he can make it here in half an hour, but it take me closer to an hour to drive (at the speed limit !) to visit him. He commutes from Manhattan KS (KS St Univ) to home at light speed and goes planting hunting at the drop of a hat (or less) with a fantastic eye for finding variegated and unusual natives. Then I can sometimes talk him out of later. I had the pleasure to introduce him to Tony Avent a week or so ago over lunch and then sat back for their 'drone' on Trillium collecting spots. Not too painful (wink). So he grows a lot of bulbous plants- many from seed - and will surely add to the list as his class time (or avoidance of class work) and fiance Heather, permits. Welcome Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From ixia@dcsi.net.au Thu Jan 26 18:36:57 2006 Message-Id: <019501c622d1$65faead0$0201a8c0@Ixia> From: "Bill Richardson" Subject: Zephyranthes blooming Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:36:48 +1100 Hi Mary Sue, Zepheranthes are also flowering here in Gippsland and I have three out at present. Z. labufferosa (is this correct?) , Z. fosterii which is a beautiful rosy color, Z. minima, a very small flower. I'm hoping to see more this year, as some I have, haven't flowered as yet for me. Other species flowering are Habranthus which have ermerged in a thunderstorm. Also, the beautiful Cypella coelestus, which goes under a couple of other names (Phallocallus is one), which is in a pot near my pathway and is flowering it's head off every day, more blooms coming out. Very spectacular. regards, Bill Richardson, Ixia King Summer 16c-42c. at present West Gippsland, Victoria, Australia ixia@dcsi.net.au Ixia Web site: www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia --------- And blooming earlier than it ever has (mid January) is Zephyranthes atamasco. I know we already have it well pictured on the wiki, but I couldn't resist adding one more picture since it is such a pretty thing. Mary Sue From dkramb@badbear.com Thu Jan 26 19:06:44 2006 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20060126190349.01aa44a8@pop.bizland.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Lilium Pardalinum Seed Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:07:00 -0500 At 02:48 PM 1/23/2006, you wrote: >Check the wiki, Dennis. > >There you will see some photos of Lilium grayi growing in my garden. Wow! Is there anything you DON'T grow? :-) >Seed of Lilium grayi and seed of Lilium pardalinum germinate under very >different conditions. They both germinate hypogeally, but Lilium grayi seed >requires roughly three months of moist WARM conditions to form a tiny bulb. >Then, after about three months of cold conditions, it produces the first >leaves. This was my problem. I kept them moist during winter months but dry during summer months (thinking I was doing them a favor). Did you grow yours from seed? How long till they reached maturity? >Note that the name is properly grayi, not grayii. > >Lilium grayi may well be a relict species: it seems to grow much more >vigorously far to the north of its current natural range. That is a new term for me. But it makes sense if they got pushed southward with the glaciations. Dennis in Cincinnati From mmattus@charter.net Thu Jan 26 19:20:00 2006 Message-Id: From: Matt Mattus Subject: introduction Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:19:40 -0500 Wow Aaron We too must be brothers. I jumped from college to college, to major to major, mostly encouraged to be a Botany or Floriculture major, then Environmental Science, then the arts (which I finally graduated with a MFA), but my point is, finding ones passion is hard enough, then finding ones path through life is another....I think that it is a terrific gift, to know what excites you and also to find a career in that field. I remember back when I was younger (yikes, I am talking like I'm So old!) I too had a horticultural passion that jumped from one species to another, and you know what? It still does!. So I guess that your affliction will only get worse (or better). That's what is so great about being interested in something. Whether it be cooking, art or plants (or all three)...life is indeed good, and rich. So many people are more simple in their interests..TV.....movies....walks on the beach, (just read a personal ad!). Gosh, if I wrote a personal ad, it would scare people!. DO you grow any Lachenalia species? They are a current fav of mine, and are many other South African Bulbs. I live in Worcester, Massachusetts, which I guess is similar to Manhattan Kansas in a cultural way, and perhaps temperature wise! Great to see that you joined out group. Well, of to the NARGS Winter Study Weekend in NYC tomorrow morning. Matt Mattus Worcester, MA Zone 5 Cold, 9 inches of new snow and 15 deg. F this evening, (finally) From jimmckenney@starpower.net Thu Jan 26 19:53:21 2006 Message-Id: <000001c622dc$10d9da60$0a022c42@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Lilium grayi; was: RE: Lilium Pardalinum Seed Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:53:18 -0500 Combining the responses from Dennis in Cincinnati and Jim McKenney: "Lilium grayi may well be a relict species... it makes sense if they got pushed southward with the glaciations." In fact, when Lilium grayi was first discovered (and named for Asa Gray by the herpetologist Sereno Watson) some thought it was only a form of Lilium canadense. Lilium canadense in northern coastal North America and Lilium grayi are very distinct. But inland, Lilium canadense changes a bit: there is a widespread form called Lilium canadense var. editorum which looks like what you would expect to get if you crossed typical Lilium canadense and L. grayi. In fact, about fifty years ago that cross was done and sure enough the progeny looked like L. canadense var. editorum. That makes me think that Lilium canadense is "capturing" Lilium grayi: Lilium grayi exists only at the fringe of the range of L. canadense. Also, the plant illustrated in many early twentieth century publications as Lilium grayi is something else, probably a hybrid between L. canadense and L. grayi or an extreme form of L. canadense var. editorum. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where winter returns tonight. From cj5sfo@yahoo.com Thu Jan 26 22:15:19 2006 Message-Id: <20060127031518.31938.qmail@web50012.mail.yahoo.com> From: Gregg Subject: A friendly BX payment reminder Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:15:18 -0800 (PST) Hi Jennifer. I'm just catching up with non-work related emails after being out of town for a while. I have no idea what my membership status is. Can you tell me if I am current? Thanks very much. Gregg DeChirico San Francisco, CA JENNIFER HILDEBRAND wrote: Good afternoon, I hope that everyone is having a pleasant new year! Your PBS board members just had our latest board meeting, and we want you all to know how much we appreciate your support. This was also an opportunity for us to see that our new treasurer, Arnold Trachtenburg, is on the ball! He's got a list of a few members who are just slightly behind with their BX payments. The holidays are always a hectic time, but if you all could take a minute to dig through that huge stack of papers awaiting your attention (you all know you have one!) to see if you have any outstanding BX slips buried in there, we'd appreciate it. If you're pretty sure that you owe money but can't track down the slip, send Arnold an email at arnold@nj.rr.com. Immediately after this message is posted he might be a bit flooded, so please be patient if there is a slight delay to his response. And remember - we're happy to accept your payment via PayPal, which I find to be very easy and which allows you to pay using a credit card. PayPal payments can be sent to theotherjen88@msn.com. Best, Jennifer PBS Secretary _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Gregg DeChirico San Francisco, California --------------------------------- Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. From cj5sfo@yahoo.com Thu Jan 26 22:17:47 2006 Message-Id: <20060127031747.30003.qmail@web50010.mail.yahoo.com> From: Gregg Subject: A friendly BX payment reminder Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:17:47 -0800 (PST) humble apologies folks... too quick on the send button without checking first. sorry. gregg Gregg DeChirico San Francisco, California --------------------------------- Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. From cj5sfo@yahoo.com Thu Jan 26 22:18:13 2006 Message-Id: <20060127031812.9933.qmail@web50009.mail.yahoo.com> From: Gregg Subject: A friendly BX payment reminder Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:18:12 -0800 (PST) humble apologies folks... too quick on the send button without checking first. sorry. gregg Gregg DeChirico San Francisco, California --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? With a free 1 GB, there's more in store with Yahoo! Mail. From rarebulbs@cox.net Thu Jan 26 23:23:37 2006 Message-Id: <000701c622f9$6c9d5850$060db146@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: New e-mail address Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:23:28 -0800 Dear All: Please note my new e-mail address: rarebulbs@cox.net Diana Chapman Telos Rare Bulbs www.telosrarebulbs.com From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Fri Jan 27 00:05:31 2006 Message-Id: <20060127050530.47072.qmail@web34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: Introduction Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:05:30 -0800 (PST) Hello, No offense taken to this mis-naming. Thanks for the welcomes. I have lurked, after joining, for about two months and even before that I have read through many of the archives before I joined. I grow many things in pots, but I try to plant things out as soon as I think they can handle it. The only thing that stay in pots are those many, ever increasing, tropicals. All the plants are grown on my parents property, almost a full 2 acres. I plan on moving to the Asheville, North Carolina area, but that will have to wait and see. I hope the climate does not force me to leave certain things behind when the time comes. I manage the gardening on Saturday's when I make the 2 hour drive from here to there and then back on Saturday evening to start/finish homework. I forgot to mention that I grow many species Lilium and have done well with quite a few, but formosanum still gives me trouble. I have a bunch of formosanum coming along in pots but none, not even var pricei, will grow outside. All the other species stay outside in the garden. Lachenalias are great, especially the pustulate and mottled ones. I have about a dozen species that are in there 2nd year. Also Massonias. I have several collections of Zephyranthes atamasco that have wintered here in Z5 also. And many collections fo Hymenocallis occidentalis. All the best, Waiting for spring, Aaron Floden --- James Waddick wrote: > Dear All; > Seems silly to welcome Aaron to the list since I > welcome him > to my door more often. And surprised he wasn't > already a regular (but > may have been lurking?). His garden is at the > southern end of Kansas > City (mine in the north end of town) and he can make > it here in half > an hour, but it take me closer to an hour to drive > (at the speed > limit !) to visit him. > He commutes from Manhattan KS (KS St Univ) to home > at light > speed and goes planting hunting at the drop of a hat > (or less) with a > fantastic eye for finding variegated and unusual > natives. Then I can > sometimes talk him out of later. > I had the pleasure to introduce him to Tony Avent a > week or > so ago over lunch and then sat back for their > 'drone' on Trillium > collecting spots. Not too painful (wink). > So he grows a lot of bulbous plants- many from seed > - and > will surely add to the list as his class time (or > avoidance of class > work) and fiance Heather, permits. > Welcome Jim W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Ger.Stickroth@t-online.de Fri Jan 27 04:05:03 2006 Message-Id: <1F2PXG-14EJKi0@fwd27.sul.t-online.de> From: "Gerhard Stickroth" Subject: Pardalinum Seed Date: 27 Jan 2006 09:04 GMT Helllo, thank you for all the valuable advise on L. pardalinum seed. Gerhard Stickroth, Bavaria, Z6 From jimmckenney@starpower.net Fri Jan 27 14:40:48 2006 Message-Id: <000b01c62379$920628d0$64022c42@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: What's popping today Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 14:40:46 -0500 Crocus gargaricus and Crocus fleischeri both opened today. The former is a intense chrome yellow and the latter dull grayish white on the exterior with striking glowing red styles: both very nice for a late January day. Although it's so-far been a mild winter, some plants are biding their time. Jasminum nudiflorum is well budded, but the first flowers have yet to open. Wintersweet and witch hazels are in full bloom, and Helleborus foetidus is developing rapidly. The only snowdrop to bloom so-far is Galanthus elwesii, and I have not seen buds or blooms on Iris unguicularis. Lots of sprouts of various bulbs are up at ground level. So maybe there is an irony in these mild winters: will some plants bloom later rather than earlier because they are not getting their chill requirement on schedule? Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 where seedling Paeonia californica - a hellebore-like peony - has foliage up in one of the cold frames. From marie-paule.opdenakker@pandora.be Fri Jan 27 15:13:10 2006 Message-Id: <001001c6237e$05aa34d0$ed5da551@kieken> From: "Marie-Paule" Subject: What is flowering this month Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:12:39 +0100 Hello, Wel in Belgium is not much in bloom, the only plant that is blooming outside, = sarcoccoca hookeriana,the fragrance is delicious, I had him previous year indoors, but the fragrance was to predominate.The temperture is at night -7 and by day 0 degr.C or less.It is splendid if you can read that there in some countries plants and bulbs thrive. Kind Regards, Marie-Paule Belgium 21h. -5 degr.C. From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Jan 27 17:43:55 2006 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Repetition Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:46:33 -0600 Dear All; Feel free to delete this repetition. I wrote a bit for the Alpien L group about Rohdea. It is only vaguely rhizomateous, so it's inclusion here is a bit iffy. Thought some of you might find a glimmer of info. So I am sharing unless your hate it, then just dump it. Dear All; It is 'that' time of year. The days are slowly, agonizingly getting longer, but not nearly fast enough. The temps are unseasonably warm and as we wander the garden there are shades of brown and tan everywhere. There are some exceptions - the hillside of deep dark green Hellebores, but that's another story. And the infinitely small 'pips of Galanthus, Narcissus, Adonis... One plant stands out from all others; Rohdea japonica. There seems to be too little written in praise of this plant. It is easy as anything we grow. From seed or divisions, single plants form bold clumps that stay evergreen down through -0 F and now the bright red berries are an added bonus in an otherwise dull garden. We have only had it defoliate during our record cold season of -23 F (-30C), but the plants survived and bounced back with new foliage. This year the Rohea were untouched by our winter low of -5F and the foliage is green, rich and lush. I have been collecting the bright red berries and planting seed. Most fruits have 1, 2, or 3 seed, but an exceptional fruit has up to 5 seeds. They are large, pearly and firm. Planting just buried in pots or scratched into the ground, seedlings are produced quickly in spring and do not need fussing even here. This is a collector's plant from Japan where it is known as 'Omoto' and available in dozens or hundreds of named cvs. It is a plant of subtle to outrageous variation. The common, cheap and basic variety has flat foliage up to a foot or so in length and a couple inches wide in large loose fans, but from there anything goes. Variation is from a minimal white or yellow edge to longitudinal striped foliage and even spotted forms all called 'clouds'. Naturally there a white tipped or 'Akebono' form too. The leaves may be crinkled long-wise into ridges (called dragons) which may make up the entire leaf - pure corduroy. And of course you can find almost any combination of clouds and dragons, in sizes from dwarf to large. And don't forget the narrow linear leaves versus wide rounded leaves and the exaggerated bent, twisted and convoluted leaves (called Lion's head) combined with clouds and dragons to an almost infinite variety. As these variation become more pronounced the plants are higher in price, slower to propagate and harder to locate. A few US catalogs regularly offer a few special forms at $100 or more and in Japan there is almost no limit to the price for the most extreme specimens of Lion's Head with clouds and dragons. The Japanese classic gardener would carefully cultivate these treasures in a certain form of pot made just to show them off. All are equally hardy or those I have tried, about a dozen forms. I'd get more, but they are getting beyond my wallet's worth. But even a small variety of different forms, sizes and variation can have an impact in the winter and spring landscape. Their small flowers are not worth pursuing. I've probably planted 100 seeds of half a dozen forms and fingers are crossed for some clouded and bedragoned, lion-headed progeny. Wish me luck. Incidentally, Rohdea is 'probably' a monotypic genus in the Lily Familiy, but it is close to and may just 'drift' into the much larger genus Tupistra found widely across temperate Asia. I have tried and killed a few species, but the hardiest has been T. chinensis - the true species, not what is sold as 'Eco China Ruffles' with soft tender foliage. More of these are coming into gardens too. If you check the literature, you will read it is somewhat tender and used to routinely be listed as Zone 9 or 10, but as more people try this in northern gardens, it is found to be quite hardy and an absolute necessity in the winter garden. So any one have a Lion Head Rohdea that needs thinning? If you haven't tried Rohdea, get some for a prominent, but lightly shaded spot in the winter garden. It is most satisfying this time of year. Best wishes from spring feverish Jim W. and Thanks to my computer literate partner, here's some pictures of Rohdeas taken yesterday, Jan 26, 06. This is an assortment of pictures of various cvs to show their leaf condition in my Kansas City, Missouri Zone 5 mid-winter landscape. I think the foliage generally looks great, especially when you compare it to that of some Hellebores, Epimedium and others shown. There are a few brown tipped leaves, but every brown tipped leaf is among the oldest. I think they can keep foliage from one to the next, so some of these oldest leaves are more than 1 year old and thus subject to my summer AND winter climate extremes. This winter's low has been -5F. Hope to get your comments about the foliage http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimwaddick/ -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Fri Jan 27 20:05:20 2006 Message-Id: <09f23ea70684cdaf03d859168b01b6cf@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Aquatic (&/or edible) geophytes Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 17:05:19 -0800 Conroe Joe's post got me remembering back when I had a fairly large freshwater aquarium and I tried to plant it with a lush landscape of underwater plants, that there were some I liked that were bulbs (or corm or something) which I planted and they grew some nicely leaved plants. I think a few times I even got lucky and they sent a small scape to the top of the aquarium where they opened a small flower just above the surface of the water. I think they were called Aponogeton of some species or another. Joe's post made me wonder if we should try to add photos of the various underwater geophytes to the wiki, or discuss them on the list, since I think they are On Topic. I know it has already been agreed that water lilies and lotuses are full-fledged geophytes. I also wondered how many geophytes are solely or mainly underwater plants and what the genera and species are. A little while later, as I was looking through the vegetable seed catalogs trying to decide what to grow this year, I realized that there were a number of food geophytes (like potatoes and Jerusalem artichokes, as well as some of the Andean tubers and rhizomes) that would also be On Topic. Again I wondered if photos of these ought not be added to the wiki as well. As far as discussion, I know that some have been mentioned from time to time like sweet potatoes and bananas. It seems that some bananas which form corms are grown purely for ornamentation, for their flowers and/or their foliage. So they would definitely seem fair game for the wiki. Does anyone have full listing of all edible/food geophyte genera and species as well as the aquatic ones? And let's not leave out those that belong in both these camps like water chestnuts... ;-) Just trying to get a little affirmative action for the not-as-often-thought-of geophytes, --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a From rarebulbs@cox.net Fri Jan 27 20:29:21 2006 Message-Id: <001801c623aa$3dc76cd0$060db146@DJ9SK221> From: "diana chapman" Subject: New e-mail address Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 17:29:11 -0800 Dear All: Please note my new e-mail address: rarebulbs@cox.net (old one was rarebulbs@earthlink.net) Many thanks. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs www.telosrarebulbs.com From putman@pobox.upenn.edu Fri Jan 27 20:54:36 2006 Message-Id: <43DACECB.40509@pobox.upenn.edu> From: Stephen Putman Subject: Crinum mauritianum Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:54:19 -0500 I still have one plant of this available for sale or trade. If interested contact me privately. From plantlady@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Fri Jan 27 23:50:29 2006 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: fungus gnats, Murphy's Oil, coco peat Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:51:43 -0700 Hello All, Back in November I had received some wonderful info on battling my gnat issues, from this group. Still battling by the way, but I am winning! I've learnt some interesting stuff in the process. Arnold Trachtenberg suggested the Murphy's Oil Soap, why didn't I try that first? Works incredibly, in fact that is what finally gave me the edge in the battle. However do not use it on Abutilon, it promptly died, oops. It also had an interesting effect on some of my plants, especially the clivia. I did the drench about a month ago and now they all have an incredibly bright sheen to them, almost a high polish. I only drenched the soil, not the plant. My hibiscus and dietes are also showing the glow, they all look wonderfully healthy. The price is also right, $2.97 for a 450ml bottle. I wonder if adding the Murphy's to one's watering procedure every so often would be such a bad thing, bugs or not, the plants sure seem to have benefited from it. I've also started to use the coco peat mixed with vermiculite and perlite to start seeds. The gnats do not like it? And with the layer of granite on top my gnat issues are just about licked. Linda Foulis Okotoks, AB Canada No Snow! It will probably snow in July! From kellyo@wetrock.com Sat Jan 28 06:37:51 2006 Message-Id: <43DAE81F.5140.3F54C5B@kellyo.wetrock.com> From: "Kelly O'Neill" Subject: fungus gnats, BT seems to work great Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 03:42:23 -0800 For me, A liquid (possibly with a name like Thurigen) containing something with a name something like Bacillis Thurigenisis var. israeliensis :-) worked well. It takes some time, however, I think it builds a colony of little critters that do the job very well if you keep them happy enough. I just added it to their waterings a few times (and watered it in lightly). My problem was in heated greenhouse conditions. KellyO Kelly O'Neill Wet Rock Gardens Flower Farm U-Pick and more at the farm (open by appointment November thru February): 2877 N 19th Street Springfield, Oregon 97477 To contact us: * Business Office for mail or by appointment only: gardens@wetrock.com * 1950 Yolanda AVE http://www.wetrock.com * Springfield, Oregon 97477 (541) 746-4444 * From pacegardens@comcast.net Sat Jan 28 08:19:47 2006 Message-Id: <001301c6240d$8142c7d0$6401a8c0@PACE> From: "Glen Pace" Subject: Rohdeas Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:19:44 -0500 > I wrote a bit for the Alpine L group about Rohdea. Jim, Thank you for writing about the Rohdeas and putting the info on the PBS site. A friend had forwarded the information to me from the Alpine_L, but I had not received the photos. I am sure that there must be people selling this plant in the U.S. other than PDN and Asiatica. If anybody in the group knows where one can buy the cultivars please write to the list for everybody or you can Email me privately. For those who have not tried this zone 6-7 reputed plant, it does grow in my Michigan zone 5 climate and I am thrilled to have it. The seeds have not come up when planted outside, but I have had great success with starting them indoors in plastic bags on damp paper towel. Thanks in advance for any information the group can give on purchasing these wonderful plants. Glen Pace Pace Gardens MI USDA zone 5 pacegardens@comcast.net From john@floralarchitecture.com Sat Jan 28 12:37:25 2006 Message-Id: <20060128173724.15411.qmail@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Floral Architecture Subject: Rohdeas Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:37:24 -0800 (PST) Jim and Glen et al, Here are some links that I found some time ago. While they are all in Japanese, the photos stand for themselves. http://www.omotonoa.com/meihinten/jisseki.html http://www.omotonoa.com/meihinten/jisseki.html I have the pleaseure of growing a few of them. I have one wonderful variegated plant that was smuggled years ago by an employer from Japan. It was in her father's bonsai collection. It is a VERY slow growing plant. I got it about 6 or 7 years ago as a single division at about 5" tall. It is now 7" tall with one offset just starting to form. And I though Clivia were slow. But, I have others that have a white stripe on the edge of the plant that grow rather well. I got it was a 1 gallon pot that I divided up into 6 plants (mostly 1 gallon size) last year. Those pots are now ready for dividing. Most of these plants don't have the same strong white stripe on the leaf but most have a faint one. I've looked at several Japanese owned nurseries here in LA and had very little luck. They were just the same variety that I have plenty of with the faint stripe. I wish that I could get the finely variegated variety to grow faster. One offset in 6 years doesn't make for a showy plant. If it weren't for the beautiful pattern on the leaves, this plant would have been tossed years ago. I have the plain green variety planted in Canton, OH at my uncle's house. This will be it's second winter. The first fall that I planted it, I divided it into several smaller clumps. The fall planting did not seem to have any ill effects. I don't remember it setting any seeds. John Ingram in L.A., CA. www.floralarchitecture.com "Your Clivia Connection" john@floralarchitecture.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) From ang.por@alice.it Sat Jan 28 13:23:10 2006 Message-Id: <001601c62438$51f02920$a54d0757@h7o1x9> From: "Angelo Porcelli" Subject: What's popping today Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 19:26:12 +0100 Sternbergia fisheriana and Romulea bulbocodium just opening these very cold days, together with Chasmanthe bicolor. Sternbergia candida is just following. Nerine undulata still in flower since a month ago, with Narcissus tazetta italicus and 'Double Romans' Angelo Porcelli south of Italy... where an unbelievely night at 26F has seriously damaged Clivias, Crinum asiaticum, moorei, Haemanthus albiflos From bonaventure@optonline.net Sat Jan 28 13:37:05 2006 Message-Id: From: bonaventure@optonline.net Subject: fungus gnats- shiitake solution Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:37:04 -0500 I tried using the water from soaking dried shiitake mushrooms about 20 minutes. The mushrooms were a delicious ingredient in a dish and the water retained a faint garlicky-earthy odor. Instead of wasting it by pouring it down the drain, I used it to water some houseplants in soil. Not sure if this was a matter of perception, but a few pots with fungus gnats seemed to be cured for a while. Perhaps they may not have strict insect repelling properties, but they may have compounds that reduce the growth of competing fungi species. Shiitake mushroom derived compounds have been suggested to have anti-cancer properties on animal cells in culture. Bonaventure Magrys Cliffwood Beach, NJ USA zone 7 From msittner@mcn.org Sat Jan 28 17:23:41 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060128134221.038875d0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Aquatic (&/or edible) geophytes Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:23:32 -0800 Dear Lee, We saw Aponogeton in South Africa. It is interesting to read that you got it to grow in a freshwater aquarium. I was fascinated by it. It is apparently both edible and aquatic. If you have pictures of it and want to add them, I'd have no objection. As you know, this wiki administrator is more inclusive than exclusive. If someone can make a case for our including a plant in the wiki because it is a bulb, corm, rhizome, tuber, has tuberous roots when it is growing, etc., we'd allow it. We have a number of things on the wiki that some people probably wish weren't there because they are a bit of a stretch, but it seems to me as long as this is included in the text, it really doesn't hurt and could be providing information to people who might be interested. There are genera that were once considered to be in the Liliaceae family and may have since been moved to something else that come to mind. Plants like Maianthemum and Disporum. Some of them die back to their rootstocks and are dormant part of the year. But do their rootstocks qualify? Maybe not, but it someone wanted to add them, I wouldn't object. I think some people might think they'd be better classified as perennials, but would it hurt to have them on the wiki? I don't think so. We already have a few plants pictured on the wiki that are sometimes aquatic when in growth. I often look at my Marantha (Prayer Plant) and wonder if it could be included. I've read somewhere it was tuberous, but I've never unpotted it to look. I've had this plant for a very long time in one of my bathrooms and usually I cut it all the way back in winter and then it shoots out again which it is doing now and then it flowers in spring. I'm not even sure what species it is since it was gift. What ends on up the wiki is probably most a function of what appeals to the people who add to it. Mary Sue From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Sat Jan 28 18:14:54 2006 Message-Id: <1F2zHR-0Hp9Ye0@fwd34.sul.t-online.de> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: aquatic bulbs Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 00:14:53 +0100 Dear All, Dear Lee, There is one aquatic bulb I have read about but never seen it nor heard anything in the list: Oxalis aquatica. As far as I know it is a bulbous Oxalis, the leaves and flowers floatin on the water surface like a miniature water lily. Has anybody ever grown this or does anyboy know of a source for this plant? It should be a most interesting plant for a small water garden. I agree with Lee that bulbous aquatics are a most fascinating group of plants as they have driven the adaptaion to the very extreme from submerged in water during the growing season to dormant bulbs in dry(-ish) soil during dormancy. greetings from bone hard frozen Germany, Uli From Blee811@aol.com Sat Jan 28 18:30:11 2006 Message-Id: <29e.4713650.310d587f@aol.com> From: Blee811@aol.com Subject: fungus gnats- shiitake solution Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 18:30:07 EST In a message dated 1/28/2006 3:39:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bonaventure@optonline.net writes: Shiitake mushroom derived compounds have been suggested to have anti-cancer properties on animal cells in culture. ===>And that's why I would have poured that soaking water into the soup broth, sauce, or whatever. Just strain it through cheesecloth if the sediment really bothers you, but I don't usually worry about such things. Bill Lee From kellyo@wetrock.com Sun Jan 29 10:38:35 2006 Message-Id: <43DC720E.9262.2E2A87F@kellyo.wetrock.com> From: "Kelly O'Neill" Subject: fungus gnats, BT {correction] Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 07:43:10 -0800 Oops, I should have looked at the stuff before posting. THURICIDE is Bacillus thuringiensis KURSTAKI. I also note, I actually used a Safer brand product called Caterpillar Killer (with the same BtK in it). The kind of fungus gnats I had, spend part of their life as a worm in the soil eating things like plant roots. Alberto reminded me that changing your soil (such as removing peat moss) or other container culture practices so you do not have wet stagnant conditions in your media may be a better approach (for various reasons) than treating a symptom. I think the other BT I mentioned is for controlling something with a name equal or similar to Mosquito :-). KellyO On 28 Jan 2006 at 3:42, Kelly O'Neill wrote: > For me, > A liquid (possibly with a name like Thurigen) containing > something with a name something like Bacillis Thurigenisis var. > israeliensis :-) worked well. It takes some time, however, I think > it builds a colony of little critters that do the job very well if you > keep them happy enough. I just added it to their waterings a > few times (and watered it in lightly). My problem was in heated > greenhouse conditions. KellyO > > > Kelly O'Neill Wet Rock Gardens Flower Farm > U-Pick and more at the farm (open by appointment > November thru February): > 2877 N 19th Street > Springfield, Oregon 97477 > To contact us: * Business Office for mail or by appointment > only: > gardens@wetrock.com * 1950 Yolanda AVE > http://www.wetrock.com * Springfield, Oregon 97477 > (541) 746-4444 * From plantlady@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Sun Jan 29 11:26:53 2006 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: fungus gnats, BT {correction] Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 09:28:07 -0700 Hello Kelly and all, The BTK is indeed for caterpillars and can still be found in Canada. I used to be able to buy a product called Vecto-bac which contained the BTI, and it worked like a charm. We used it once a month in our watering and never or rarely had issues with gnats. Unfortunately, some government official using their infinite wisdom decided that a person had to be a licensed pesticide user in order to buy and use the Vecto-bac? And yet there is malathion on the nursery shelves?? We can buy Aqua-bac which has the BTI in it, however it is granular and meant to be sprinkled on top of standing water where the mosquito larvae will consume it and die. I was told to soak the Aqua-bac for an hour or so and then put it in my blender and water from there. Needless to say that did not happen, and shaking the granules onto the soil of the plant and watering in did not seem to work either. Indeed, prevention is the key in controlling gnats. I'm still not sure how effective the bug zapper is, the gnats sit on the ceiling beside it?? They're easy to kill there. Also diatomaceous (sp?) earth does work, but it is slow. I did a test bag and it took 3 1/2 weeks to kill off the gnats and the larvae. That may also be more effective as preventative measures rather than fighting the battle. Now can anyone smuggle some vecto-bac across the border for me? Just kidding. Linda Foulis Okotoks, AB Canada From jimmckenney@starpower.net Sun Jan 29 11:29:13 2006 Message-Id: <000601c624f1$2192b9a0$f8012c42@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Oxalis aquatica; was: RE: aquatic bulbs Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 11:29:08 -0500 Dear Uli and others: An IPNI search on Oxalis aquatica comes up blank. Are you sure your "Oxalis aquatica" is an Oxalis? Is there any chance that it is a member of the pteridophyte genus Marsilea? These aquatic ferns are sometimes called water clover. Jim McKenney From GardenPT@aol.com Sun Jan 29 14:17:32 2006 Message-Id: <8C7F31FC77BD8AD-1120-81C3@MBLK-M12.sysops.aol.com> From: gardenpt@aol.com Subject: fungus gnats, BT {correction] -- more Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 14:17:28 -0500 As it turns out, Btk (Bacillus thuringiensis kurstaki) is effective against caterpillars which are insects in the order Lepidoptera (moths and butterflies). But when it comes to fungus gnats, the appropriate Bt is Bti (Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis) which is effective against insects in the order Diptera (flies, gnats, midges, mosquitoes, and more). Jean in very soggy Portland, OR -----Original Message----- From: Kelly O'Neill To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 07:43:10 -0800 Subject: Re: [pbs] fungus gnats, BT {correction] Oops, I should have looked at the stuff before posting. THURICIDE is Bacillus thuringiensis KURSTAKI. I also note, I actually used a Safer brand product called Caterpillar Killer (with the same BtK in it). The kind of fungus gnats I had, spend part of their life as a worm in the soil eating things like plant roots. ... From msittner@mcn.org Sun Jan 29 17:01:38 2006 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060129135332.033db158@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Oxalis aquatica; maybe not, but consider these Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 14:01:33 -0800 Dear Uli, I can't find a listing for Oxalis aquatica in my Oxalis checklist either. When doing some searching I came up with these possible candidates for aquatica species that might fit as a topic of discussion for this group. Alpinia aquatica Commelina aquatica Cyanella aquatica Hypoxis aquatica Ipomoea aquatica Nymphoides aquatica Romulea aquatica Spiloxene aquatica Does anyone grow any of these or have you seen any of these in the wild? Mary Sue >An IPNI search on Oxalis aquatica comes up blank. From paph2@earthlink.net Sun Jan 29 17:26:49 2006 Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.2.20060129141732.051485e0@pop.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Oxalis aquatica; maybe not, but consider these Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 14:26:33 -0800 I have seen, Nymphoides species, Romulea aquatica, Spiloxene aquatica in the wild. Also I have seen Gladiolus tristis doing well in standing water in the wild. Narcissus jonquilla can be found in streams and N. alcarensis is in bogs. Most of these are in seasonally wet areas. Crinums, Hymenocallis and a few cyrtanthus are also from boggy places. One might think about Rhodohypoxis bauerii that grows year round in high altitude seepage areas. There are many terrestrial orchids in Africa from seasonal swamps. Harold /29/2006, you wrote: >Dear Uli, > >I can't find a listing for Oxalis aquatica in my Oxalis checklist either. >When doing some searching I came up with these possible candidates for >aquatica species that might fit as a topic of discussion for this group. > >Alpinia aquatica >Commelina aquatica >Cyanella aquatica >Hypoxis aquatica >Ipomoea aquatica >Nymphoides aquatica >Romulea aquatica >Spiloxene aquatica > >Does anyone grow any of these or have you seen any of these in the wild? > >Mary Sue > > >An IPNI search on Oxalis aquatica comes up blank. > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ajbroome@xtra.co.nz Sun Jan 29 18:38:51 2006 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.2.20060130123148.03899900@pop3.xtra.co.nz> From: Andrew Broome Subject: Oxalis aquatica; was: RE: aquatic bulbs Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:38:55 +1300 Jim said... > Are you sure your "Oxalis aquatica" is an Oxalis? There are reported to be a couple of aquatic or semi-aquatic Oxalis from South Africa. Salter refers to: Ox. dregei - a marsh plant Ox. disticha (from shallow clayey seasonal pools) Ox. simplex - a marsh plant (this is supposedly in cultivation - AJB) "... carpeting the surface of the water..." Ox. natans - a water plant (in stagnant pools) Ox. uliginosa - marsh plant (not floating) Andrew. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.23/243 - Release Date: 27/01/2006 From arnold@nj.rr.com Mon Jan 30 07:14:05 2006 Message-Id: <43DE01EB.3080306@nj.rr.com> From: arnold trachtenberg Subject: fungus gnats, Murphy's Oil, coco peat Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:09:15 -0500 Linda: I'm glad the Murphy's soap worked for you. I guess I (we) should always follow the caveat and test a substance on a small part of a plant before we use it. The Murphy's soap is a simple carbon chain with some oh group attached here and there. It works by dissolving the cuticle ( skin) of the beast and they desiccate and die. There are some potassium ions in the soap which may be responsible for the damage. I guess one of the chemist like Jim S. can comment more lucidly on the effect of a soap substance on living tissue. It also has a scent of citronella which may be a good way to chase mosquitos. Arnold From jimmckenney@starpower.net Mon Jan 30 11:38:16 2006 Message-Id: <000301c625bb$91664ab0$42012c42@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Oxalis aquatica; maybe not, but consider these Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:38:13 -0500 Mary Sue asked about, among others, Ipomoea aquatica and Nymphoides aquaticum (note that in the older literature the genus was sometimes treated as neuter, thus Nymphoides aquaticum - something to keep in mind if you're doing a Google search). Ipomoea aquatica is a widely grown vegetable, now marketed here in the US primarily in Asian markets. It's sometimes called "water spinach". Nymphoides aquatica is a common pond plant in the eastern US and maybe elsewhere. It's the "banana plant" of the aquarium trade. These are gentian family plants with flowers a bit like those of Menyanthes. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where it may reach 65 degrees F today. From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Mon Jan 30 12:18:24 2006 Message-Id: <006201c625c1$2ae42b30$98f11b52@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Ipomoea aquatica Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:18:19 -0000 I've had the leaves of Ipomoea italica in the Philippines, where it is cooked rather like spinach. It grows in ponds with long floating stems on the surface, though I expect that it would form a bushy plant if out of water or the pond dried up. In East Africa the leaves of sweet potato, I. batatas, are eaten in the same way. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP SNOWDROP OPEN DAYS AT COLESBOURNE PARK 2006 Every weekend in February, Saturday and Sunday only, from 1 pm 4/5, 11/12,18/19, 25/26 Groups tours by arrangement Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McKenney" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Oxalis aquatica; maybe not, but consider these > Mary Sue asked about, among others, > > Ipomoea aquatica and Nymphoides aquaticum (note that in the older literature > the genus was sometimes treated as neuter, thus Nymphoides aquaticum - > something to keep in mind if you're doing a Google search). > > > Ipomoea aquatica is a widely grown vegetable, now marketed here in the US > primarily in Asian markets. It's sometimes called "water spinach". > > Nymphoides aquatica is a common pond plant in the eastern US and maybe > elsewhere. It's the "banana plant" of the aquarium trade. These are gentian > family plants with flowers a bit like those of Menyanthes. > > Jim McKenney > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where it may reach 65 degrees > F today. > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From piabinha@yahoo.com Mon Jan 30 15:56:14 2006 Message-Id: <20060130205614.86986.qmail@web51908.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Ipomoea aquatica and others Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:56:13 -0800 (PST) as others have noted, Ipomoea aquatica is a vegetable known as water spinach in asian cuisines, it's distinctive due to its hollow stems. it's quite good sauteed in a chili/brown sauce, or simply with garlic. also known as kangkung or kangkong, which i'm not sure if it's cantonese or hokkien. i believe it has small white morning-glory flowers. i don't know if it has a tuber or thick stems. years ago, i posted an inquiry in the aquatic-plant list (a list for those that grow plants in aquaria) about whether people grew these in open-ended aquaria. it's a large plant so i can't imagine the casual fishkeeper growing this, i'd think you'd need large open tanks with high light, just like with water lilies (Nymphaeas). well, to my surprise i got no responses except from the government. someone from the USDA wrote me to tell me that such plant is an invasive pest and that owning it would put me at risk of fines and other penalties! it was obviously a form letter, but i thought it was too funny, if somewhat scary, that they were monitoring the list for verboten words... so if any gov't agency is monitoring this list, please note: i do not have any of this plant at my house, nor Cannabis, nor sichuan peppercorns, nor kudzu, nor have i ever been a member of the nazi or communist parties... ========= tsuh yang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jimmckenney@starpower.net Mon Jan 30 15:58:10 2006 Message-Id: <000001c625df$df39ce00$48022c42@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: New arrivals today Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:58:05 -0500 The little plants known as Bulbocodium vernum and Merendera trigyna are beginning to bloom today. The former is also known as Colchicum vernum, and the latter is also known as Bulbocodium trigynum. From a distance, they look like frail crocus. Also in bloom - still in bloom - is Colchicum kesselringii. This has been blooming for over a month. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where each day in this unseasonably/unreasonably warm winter is bringing out more blooms: I hope they didn't forget their jackets! From jimmckenney@starpower.net Mon Jan 30 16:03:21 2006 Message-Id: <000101c625e0$97ac95d0$48022c42@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Eleutherococcus; was: RE: Ipomoea aquatica and others Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:03:15 -0500 Tsuh yang wrote: "so if any gov't agency is monitoring this list, please note: i do not have any of this plant at my house, nor Cannabis, nor sichuan peppercorns, nor kudzu, nor have i ever been a member of the nazi or communist parties... " I'm pretty sure I saw Sichuan peppercorns (Eleutherococcus) plants or seed advertised in the herb and spice section of a mass distribution nursery catalog recently. If they put anyone in jail for it, they'll have plenty of company. Jim McKenney From piabinha@yahoo.com Mon Jan 30 16:07:36 2006 Message-Id: <20060130210735.62508.qmail@web51901.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: what is a bulb/geophyte Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:07:35 -0800 (PST) hi mary sue, i don't want to open up another pandora's box, but... i can see in the wiki a few genera that ,while terribly interesting to me, would not fit within the criteria of bulbs/geophytes. for example the "woody" Iridaceae or Vellozia. Aponogeton on the other hand are sold as tubers/rhizomes in the aquaria trade. ========= tsuh yang > We saw Aponogeton in South Africa. It is interesting > to read that you got > it to grow in a freshwater aquarium. I was > fascinated by it. It is > apparently both edible and aquatic. If you have > pictures of it and want to > add them, I'd have no objection. > As you know, this wiki administrator is more > inclusive than exclusive. If > someone can make a case for our including a plant in > the wiki because it is > a bulb, corm, rhizome, tuber, has tuberous roots > when it is growing, etc., > we'd allow it. > We already have a few plants pictured on the wiki > that are sometimes > aquatic when in growth. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From aquaflorasa@telkomsa.net Mon Jan 30 16:28:28 2006 Message-Id: <015e01c625e4$16825810$93b1ef9b@p7d1p2> From: "Aqua Flora" Subject: Aquatic Bulbs Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 23:08:02 +0200 Dear Mary Sue et al, On a recent visit to Namaqualand I saw a Spiloxene sp. with yellow flowers growing on vertical rocks with water seeping over them, on the opposite side of the road Amaryllis beladonna were growing in similar "marshy" conditions with water seeping slowly through the soil. There were also carnivorous Utricularia as well as Drosera growing along side them. There are quite a few species of tuberous Drosera, al of whom grow in wet soil, but require a dry dormancy. On a previous visit I saw Romulea sp. growing in very wet soil, but I wouldn't call those aquatic, I also saw Onixotis stricta growing on the edge of a natural dam. During my last visit we also found Aponogeton distachyos growing in quite rapid streams along side submerged Potamogeton sp. in icy cold water. Juncus lomatophyllus were growing on the banks. There are quite a few different Aponogetons, A.junceus and A.ranunculiflorus immediately comes to mind. A.junceus produces leaves similar to Juncus lomatophyllus when grown in marshy conditions, but floating leaves when submerged, I have only grown this one submerged, but I am not sure if I have identified it correctly. A.ranunculiflorus has submerged leaves only with tiny floating flowers. Then there is the question of edible aquatic bulbs. Aponogeton distachyos is most certainly edible and makes a delicious stew in conjunction with mutton, potatoes, beans and sour apples or certain Oxalis leaves. We call it "Waterblommetjie Bredie" in Afrikaans. In the nursery I have Crinum bulbispernum, C.campanulatum and C.asiaticum growing in the ponds along side Louisiana Irises, C.paludosum also grows in seasonal pans. Harold mentioned that a few Cyrtanthus also grow in "boggy" places, I grow C.breviflorus in a shallow pond where the water level varies from almost dry up to 5 cm over the pots. I also have Nymphoides thunbergiana and N.indica in the nursery. Harold also mentioned terrestrial orchids. I have Eulophia angolensis growing in the Iris-ponds and once saw them growing in a roadside ditch near Durban. A truly magnificent site! There are several other Eulophia's, Disa's and Satyrium's that also grow in marshy conditions, Satyrium hallackii is particularly beautiful. Unfortunately many of our indigenous "aquatic" bulbs grow in seasonal marshes, making them difficult to adapt to garden ponds due to their dry dormancy. Others like, North American, Sarracenia for instance, require distilled or rainwater in order to survive, whilst others need highly oxygenated water to thrive. Re: Oxalis aquatica, Marsilea is a aquatic fern that superficially resembles a four-leaved clover. Kind regards, Pieter van der Walt South Africa From piabinha@yahoo.com Mon Jan 30 16:12:41 2006 Message-Id: <20060130211240.10389.qmail@web51913.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Eleutherococcus Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:12:40 -0800 (PST) hi jim, as i understand, the importation of sichuan peppercorns into the US was enacted due to fears of the citrus industry. as you know, these peppercorns are not in the pepper family (neither Capsicum -- Solanaceae -- nor black pepper -- Piperaceae) but a true citrus. if i recall correctly, some kind of compromise was reached so their importation is now allowed with certain provisos. --- Jim McKenney wrote: > I'm pretty sure I saw Sichuan peppercorns > (Eleutherococcus) plants or seed > advertised in the herb and spice section of a mass > distribution nursery > catalog recently. > If they put anyone in jail for it, they'll have > plenty of company. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Jan 30 17:21:16 2006 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: NOT Eleutherococcus and further OT Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:24:03 -0600 The importation of Sichuan pepper was prohibited a few years ago when USDA in their wisdom decided it could harbor Citrus Canker. Brigades of agents scoured Asian markets across the US and destroyed every packet of spice in sight. They are now allowed entry if they have been heat treated (I believe at 140F for a certain period of time). So national spice dealers (such as Penzey's) are again offering them by mail order, they are slower to return to smaller Oriental and Indian Markets. During the entire US prohibition they were still allowed to be sold in Canada, but admittedly they have a lesser citrus industry. Of course so does Missouri (my home state), but that's another story. This meant that one in need of one of the most basic Chinese spices could only obtain it by illegally bringing it over the border, do without or eat in Sichuan Incidentally Sichuan Pepper is actually Zanthoxylum simulans or piperitum in the Family Rubiaceae with various species used in Japan and elsewhere. See http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/phpps/pe/page62.htm The North American Prickly Ash (Zanthoxylum americanum) is a common understory tree, but 17 other North American species include endangered inhabitants from Hawaii to the Caribbean. Not a bulbous plant. best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From piabinha@yahoo.com Mon Jan 30 17:45:38 2006 Message-Id: <20060130224537.4306.qmail@web51903.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: OT: of shiitakes and peppercorns Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:45:37 -0800 (PST) bonaventure, my mother would have skinned you alive for such offense... as bill said, the liquid from soaking dried up shiitakes is a wonderful addition for soups and stews... what a waste!!!! when i was a kid, i was trying to help my mother and an aunt in the kitchen and i made a huge mistake. i opened a can of canned abalone, and i did the same with the liquid, i poured it down the drain. i'm surprised i lived to tell the tale... dr. waddick, thanks for the correction on the sichuan peppercorns. i read about them in a culinary news article, and of course i should have done some research but i didn't, i just took them at their word that it is a citrus. i enjoy having sichuan peppercorns in my food, but not too much. they leave a lingering, interesting taste in your tongue if you put too much of it. jim mckinney, since i know you'd like this, you should try SPC on sauteed conch, with chili pepper sauce... ========= tsuh yang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Mon Jan 30 18:18:28 2006 Message-Id: <1F3iHv-0b9FeC0@fwd33.sul.t-online.de> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: Oxalis aquatica/natans Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 00:18:23 +0100 Dear All, Thank you all for the echo on my short contribution! I made a mistake: it is not Oxalis aquatica but Oxalis natans that I meant, I just wrote the name from memory and your reaction made me look up the source I got this name from. It is Martyn Rix' book 'Growing Bulbs' and I quote a passage on Page 3: "Some water plants that grow in seasonal pools have evolved tuberous rhizomes with which to survive the dry season; examples are many tropical waterlilies (Nymphaea) and several Aponogeton species. An interesting group of plants are most highly evolved in South Africa; they are semi-aquatic members of primarily terrestsrial genera which live in vleis, such as Romulea aquatica, Dipidax triquetra, and Oxalis natans, a beautiful but rare and endangered species in which the leaves and flowers float on the surface of the water" Sounds great, doesn't it? So I think confusion with Marsilea which is related to ferns is excluded and Marsilea is available in the trade. Any source of this most desirable plant known? greetings rom Germany, Uli From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Mon Jan 30 18:30:22 2006 Message-Id: <1F3iTU-0xXMX20@fwd35.sul.t-online.de> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: Oxalis natans Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 00:30:20 +0100 Dear All, I tried a search on Metacrawler and got a lot of references but had no time to look at them tonight. A photo search was not sucessful, unfortunately. Is this plant possibly extinct? bye for today, Uli From ConroeJoe@aol.com Mon Jan 30 19:09:35 2006 Message-Id: <2ec.4362f2.311004b6@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Crinum 'Bayou Traveler' Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:09:26 EST Hi Gang, 'Bayou Traveler' is a cross between C. oliganthum (West Indies Mini) and C. flaccidum (yellow form); it was created by Marcelle Sheppard. C. oliganthum is a diminutive semiaquatic Crinum, it will grow in pots, or flowerbeds, or damp soils. C. flaccidum is the interesting and not often found (in the USA) Crinum from Australia that has yellow flowers. Marcelle employed the yellow C. flaccidum in crosses with C. bulbispermum 'Alba' that eventually resulted in her Champagne crinums. But, when she crossed C. flaccidum with 'West Indies Mini', she produced 'Bayou Traveler'. 'Bayou Traveler' looks a lot like C. oliganthum but is bigger and a faster grower. 'Bayou Traveler' seems to be grown by quite a number of Crinum growers. I find it on the PBS Wiki page and on the IBS Crinum photo page. A friend here in the Houston area purchased the plant from Yucca Do Nursery, but it was labeled 'West Indies Mini'; so, this hybrid has even had time to get out there and be misidentified. Up till now it had no cultivar name; it was just C. flaccidum x C. oliganthum 'West Indies Mini'. Recently, Marcelle Sheppard decided to use "Bayou" as a prefix for her various hybrids that had semiaquatic parents such as C. americanum, or C. americanum robustum, etc. So, there are more hybrids in the Bayou series that Marcelle will get around to distributing. Jay Yourch reports that 'Bayou Traveler' is hardy in his USDA Climate Zone 7 garden in Raleigh, NC. Additionally, Jay reports that 'Bayou Traveler' has accepted pollen from other Crinum and has provided viable pollen in some crosses. Marcelle Sheppard is growing out seeds of 'Bayou Traveler'. Who knows, perhaps there is a yellow-flowered, semiaquatic Crinum hiding in her garden; another year or two will provide the answer. LINK: 'Bayou Traveler' http://crinum.iconx.com/html/crinum-hybrids-marcelle/crinum-bayou-traveler.html LINK: C. oliganthum http://crinum.iconx.com/html/crinum-species/crinum-oliganthum.html LINK: C. flaccidum (with links to Australian Bulb Association) http://crinum.iconx.com/html/crinum-species/crinum-flaccidum.html Cordially, Conroe Joe From ConroeJoe@aol.com Mon Jan 30 19:27:02 2006 Message-Id: <1ee.4addb458.311008d3@aol.com> From: ConroeJoe@aol.com Subject: Crinum Jumbo x Rose City Schoolhouse Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:26:59 EST Hi Gang, This cross produced some beautiful flowers. I'm not exactly sure which Jumbo was the pod parent, but the progeny were similar. All are striped and have very strong colors--the color of red wine but with more purple. The plants are different in appearance from C. scabrum or C. bulbispermum; they have glaucous dark green leave, but the glaucous effect is minimized and the dark green is the prominent look. Marcelle is still evaluating these plants and has not selected any for distribution. Perhaps backcrosses will yield even more beautiful shapes or colors. LINK: Jumbo x Rose City Schoolhouse http://crinum.iconx.com/html/crinum-hybrids-marcelle/crinum-bulbispermum-jumbo-x-rose-city-schoolhouse.html LINK: C. bulbispermum Jumbos http://crinum.iconx.com/html/crinum-hybrids-marcelle/crinum-jumbos.html LINK: C. scabrum Rose City Schoolhouse http://crinum.iconx.com/html/crinum-hybrids-marcelle/crinum-rose-city-clones-and-hybrids.html Cordially, Conroe Joe From jimmckenney@starpower.net Mon Jan 30 19:31:15 2006 Message-Id: <000001c625fd$a5054f20$fe002c42@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: NOT Eleutherococcus and further OT Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:31:13 -0500 Jim W is right about Sichuan pepper being Zanthoxylum and not Eleutherococcus. Zanthoxylum is rutaceous (not rubiaceous as Jim W reported) - citrus are also rutaceous; Eleutherococcus is araliaceous. The latter is sometimes called Siberian (or pick the east Asian locality of your choice) ginsing. I've got an old, pre-prohibition packet of Sichuan pepper in the spice rack- I never was sure what do with it. Jim McKenney From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Tue Jan 31 02:03:04 2006 Message-Id: <002201c62634$60821310$2c2d0d52@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Oxalis natans Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 07:03:01 -0000 I looked up this species last night in Goldblatt & Manning's amazing 'Cape Plants' which gives a brief description of all known plants from the Cape floral region of South Africa. The author of the Oxalis account, B. Bayer, says of O. natans: Aquatic geophyte with slender flexuouse, branching stems. Leaves tufted and terminal, trifoliate. Flowers shallowly campanulate, white with yellow tube. Sept.-Nov. seasonal pools, 50-200 m, Piketberg to Cape Peninsula and Worcester. I would love to see it! The description puts me in mind of Crassula natans, which I saw in the Nieuwoudtville area in Sept 2004, a pretty thing with floating rosettes and a tuft of white flowers, all held on long flexuous stems rising from the pool bed. Presumably both Oxalis and Crassula have a storage organ in the pool bed and I should think they can adjust their habit of growth dependent on the depth of water. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP SNOWDROP OPEN DAYS AT COLESBOURNE PARK 2006 Every weekend in February, Saturday and Sunday only, from 1 pm 4/5, 11/12,18/19, 25/26 Groups tours by arrangement Website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johannes-Ulrich Urban" <320083817243-0001@t-online.de> To: Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 11:30 PM Subject: [pbs] Oxalis natans > Dear All, > > I tried a search on Metacrawler and got a lot of references but had no time to > look at them tonight. A photo search was not sucessful, unfortunately. Is this > plant possibly extinct? > > > bye for today, Uli > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From 2frews@mcmedia.com.au Tue Jan 31 02:10:00 2006 Message-Id: <000f01c62635$f2aec520$1dabdccb@k2f8l8> From: "Terry Frewin" <2frews@mcmedia.com.au> Subject: Oxalis aquatica; maybe not, but consider these Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:14:15 +1100 If we are looking for something with a roundish leaf it won't be Ipomea aquatica (Kang Kong) - it has a long narrow leaf, I grow it, handy hot weather green after the lettuce have all bolted. I also grow a very pretty Nymphoides - it came to me as 'montana', floating round leaf, lovely yellow fringed poppy flower. Terry Frewin Strathbogie Ranges, NE Victoria, Australia hot and dry, mid 30's (C) today, 40 last week, yuk From 2frews@mcmedia.com.au Tue Jan 31 04:13:00 2006 Message-Id: <005b01c62647$2207ae20$1dabdccb@k2f8l8> From: "Terry Frewin" <2frews@mcmedia.com.au> Subject: lilium ID Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:17:16 +1100 Can someone help me sort out names for some liliums I have grown from seed - given to me as L. phillipinense & the Formosan lily. One type flowered here in NE Vic in late December - early January, very tall 5-6', pure white - perhaps this would be L. longiflorum, or formosanum (are they the same or very closely related?) and the other is starting to flower now early Feb, and has a v. long narrow tube, reflexing at the very end of the flower, they are either pure white or white with a pink reverse. Would love some help to sort these out. Have had a look at photos of 'longiflorum' on the wiki and it looks the same as the first one, but not sure if flowering times fit? also the late flowering one i have could be 'formosanum var priceii' - maybe? mine is around 2 - 3' in pots, thanks Terry From jglatt@ptd.net Tue Jan 31 06:23:35 2006 Message-Id: <43DF48B5.9040505@ptd.net> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: Lachenalia in the Supermarket Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 06:23:33 -0500 My local Shoprite here in New Jersey, along with primroses and dwarf daffodils, is selling pots of three different African Beauty® lachenalia - clear yellow Romaud, terra-cotta tipped yellow Fransie, and green-tipped rose-red Rosabeth. Nice full pots with 5 bulbs at $12.99 per pot. Fransie was in excellent condition, Romaud looked stretched, and all the pots of Rosabeth had two or more damaged flower spikes. I may go back and see what can be negotiated . . . On Sunday I was at Wave Hill, that fabulous public garden in Riverdale, the Bronx. There were several pots of South African bulbs on display in the conservatory - Romaud (a nice full pan, daintier in size than the rather bloated supermarket offerings), Moraea polystachya, and Chasmanthe floribunda var. duckittii. Judy in soggy New Jersey when a very mild January has provided 5 inches of rain rather than 4 feet of snow. From alhouston77009@hotmail.com Tue Jan 31 10:41:16 2006 Message-Id: From: "al houston" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 36, Issue 32 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:41:14 +0000 Does Ipomea aquatica happen to grow in the Solomon Islands by any chance? I used to keep a large colony of Corucia zebrata and have read that Ipomea was their preferred food. No mention was made in the herp literature as to which species actually grew there however. Al Howell in Houston Texas > 1. Ipomoea aquatica (John Grimshaw) > 2. Re: Ipomoea aquatica and others (piaba) --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:18:19 -0000 >From: "John Grimshaw" >Subject: [pbs] Ipomoea aquatica >To: "Pacific Bulb Society" >Message-ID: <006201c625c1$2ae42b30$98f11b52@John> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >I've had the leaves of Ipomoea italica in the Philippines, where it is >cooked rather like spinach. It grows in ponds with long floating stems on >the surface, though I expect that it would form a bushy plant if out of >water or the pond dried up. In East Africa the leaves of sweet potato, I. >batatas, are eaten in the same way. > > >John Grimshaw > > >Dr John M. Grimshaw >Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens > >Sycamore Cottage >Colesbourne >Nr Cheltenham >Gloucestershire GL53 9NP > > > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From totototo@telus.net Tue Jan 31 11:13:55 2006 Message-Id: <20060131161354.EODQ23033.priv-edtnes57.telusplanet.net@ray> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Pleione Potting Mixes Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 08:13:58 -0800 About ready to repot my pleiones after their winter sojurn in the refrigerator. Any suggestions? I'm contemplating a 3-way mix of volcanic pumice, peatmoss, and potting soil. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From jimmckenney@starpower.net Tue Jan 31 12:12:37 2006 Message-Id: <005201c62689$8487b8a0$4e022c42@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Pleione Potting Mixes Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:12:28 -0500 Although I no longer grow Pleione, when I did they did very well in a mixture of Virginia fines (ground pine bark in pieces about the size of a Pleione pseudobulb or smaller) and peat. They were grown outside in shallow pans which stood in another shallow pan of water. They got sun for several hours in the morning and were in bright shade (i.e. open to the sky) for the rest of the day. They were fed using a dilute acid-forming fertilizer. In the autumn, before frosts, the pseudobulbs were lifted and put into ziplock bags and then put into the refrigerator for the winter. The "before frosts" part was important here because if frosted, the pseudobulbs, which grew on the surface of the medium exposed to the air, developed small necrotic spots. Plants grown in the ground (even in carefully prepared mixes) did not do well, nor did plants grown by any method I tried in heavy shade. So, why am I no longer growing them? Because they need vital attention at the busiest time of year. They are ready to begin new growth too early in the year to put them outside, so they have to be handled as houseplants for a month or so. It's during this time that they flower. Then the new foliage starts; if it's allowed to grow too much, it has to be very carefully acclimated to outdoor conditions (sun). There is so much else happening at that time of year that the Pleione often didn't get what they needed when they needed it. They are easy to grow (some of them at least). Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Pleione limprichtii survived a couple of winters here outside before it disappeared. From paul@cumbleton.freeserve.co.uk Tue Jan 31 12:35:50 2006 Message-Id: <33497857.1138728949096.JavaMail.www@wwinf3103> From: Paul Cumbleton Subject: Pleione potting mixes Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:35:49 +0100 (CET) Hi Rodger, Though I grow many things, I specialise in growing Pleiones and am in the middle of my own repotting - an operation that takes me at least 3 weeks full time!! I use two mixes for Pleiones. For the adult bulbs I use a simple mix of 60% bark and 40% sphagnum moss. The bark is a grade here in the UK simply called potting bark, but is equivalent to what other orchid growers would call medium grade orchid bark. The moss can be live (if you can get it) but I use the dried and baled version. For seedlings and for trickier species I use a mix of 3 parts sphagnum, 2 parts fine grade (=seedling grade) orchid bark and 1 part coarse Perlite. This latter mix can be used for the adults too - the only reason I use the other mix is that it is a little cheaper and this makes a difference when you have hundreds of pots of Pleiones to repot! Many other mixes are suitable but you have to be more careful with the watering if soil is included. For much more information and lots of photos too see my Pleione Website at www.pleione.info I'm always happy to answer Pleione questions. Paul Cumbleton Berkshire, UK Zone 8 From bonaventure@optonline.net Tue Jan 31 14:01:32 2006 Message-Id: From: bonaventure@optonline.net Subject: Oxalis aquatica; maybe not, but consider these Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:00:50 -0500 Harold, Why didn't you cite South African orchid species of the genus Disa also growing with tuberous roots submerged ithe streamsides. They are very spectacular and worthy of growing in areas with moderate summer climates. Non-tuberous rooted South American slipper orchid Phragmipedium (excluding the subgroup compromising the species besseae, schlimii, richterii, and the newly discovered spectacular Phragmipedium kovachii) also may grow with roots, and seasonally entire plants, submerged in running water. The Florida Water Spider Habenaria repens grows floating on standing water with thick vining roots directly under the surface. Near here in the New Jersey Pine Barrens the corms of Calopogon and Arethusa are now dormant in wet sphagnum moss just above the water in the bogs in which they stand. These are all easy to cultivate in appropriate media by just standing the pot in a saucer of low mineral content water and keeping moist by refilling the resevoir as needed. Bonaventure Magrys Cliffwood Beach, NJ USA zone 7 Original mssg............... ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 14:26:33 -0800 From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Re: [pbs] Oxalis aquatica; maybe not, but consider these To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20060129141732.051485e0@pop.uci.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I have seen, Nymphoides species, Romulea aquatica, Spiloxene aquatica in the wild. Also I have seen Gladiolus tristis doing well in standing water in the wild. Narcissus jonquilla can be found in streams and N. alcarensis is in bogs. Most of these are in seasonally wet areas. Crinums, Hymenocallis and a few cyrtanthus are also from boggy places. One might think about Rhodohypoxis bauerii that grows year round in high altitude seepage areas. There are many terrestrial orchids in Africa from seasonal swamps. Harold From bonaventure@optonline.net Tue Jan 31 14:24:58 2006 Message-Id: From: bonaventure@optonline.net Subject: OT: of shiitakes and peppercorns Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:24:29 -0500 Trying it again today. No soup to be made, so the crumbled and remoistened mushrooms are delicious to me made with scrambled eggs and the precious liquid smells nice (except to infesting insect populations) going into container plants. Today I choose some orchids. So there! ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:45:37 -0800 (PST) From: piaba Subject: [pbs] OT: of shiitakes and peppercorns To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <20060130224537.4306.qmail@web51903.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 bonaventure, my mother would have skinned you alive for such offense... as bill said, the liquid from soaking dried up shiitakes is a wonderful addition for soups and stews... what a waste!!!! From khixson@nu-world.com Tue Jan 31 16:46:53 2006 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20060131132839.02715720@mail.nu-world.com> From: Kenneth Hixson Subject: lilium ID L formosanum etc Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 13:45:20 -0800 Terry, I don't know the difference between L formosanum and L. phillipinense, and I'm not sure anyone else does either. The characters of L. phillippinense are supposed to be a very long, narrow trumpet, pure white, with a three lobed bluish stigma. Well, some plants do have some bluish tinge between the lobes of the stigma, but some don't. Flower size is not a veery specific trait, as it varies in any population. L. formosanum is very variable. There is the high alpine form, L. f. pricei, which may be less than a foot tall and flower in July (Northern Hemisphere). Then there is the "tall, late strain" which may get ten feet tall and flower in late September/October. There are all variations in between. Many flowers are white with a dark reverse, but that varies also. A description of L. f. pricei flowers would not fit the description of the flowers of the "tall, late strain", and so on. Where does L. longiflorum, the easter lily fit? It could well be a relic population of either of the above, growing on an isolated island in the south Japan seas. Remember that the L. longiflorum commonly seen has been highly selected for the florist industry, who want a short, pure white, early flowering pot plant. Wilson believed that L. phillippinense was a form of L. formosanum. Then add in L. brownii, forms of L. nepalense, and perhaps a couple other species. What you end up with is a highly variable population of lilies, with continuous intergrades, and no place to specify which is which. We may eventually get enough wild material to define what is what, but don't bet on it. Ken From jimmckenney@starpower.net Tue Jan 31 16:54:40 2006 Message-Id: <001801c626b0$efc12530$67032c42@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: lilium ID L formosanum etc Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:54:38 -0500 Ken Hixon wrote: " Wilson believed that L. phillippinense was a form of L. formosanum." Ken, wasn't it the other way around? What we now know as Lilium formosanum was long known as L. philippinense (note the one l ) formosanum. I suspect that is why so much of the "Lilium philippinense" material now seen turns out to be L. formosanum. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Lilium formosanum is at home - for awhile. From Bonsaigai37@aol.com Tue Jan 31 16:57:56 2006 Message-Id: <22f.59d9d91.31113760@aol.com> From: Bonsaigai37@aol.com Subject: pollen availablity Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:57:52 EST Hello All, Tis the season for flowers in the Hippeastrum/Clivia world. Does any one have any of the following for trade or purchase? Pollen for: Hippeastrum reginae H. barbatum H. cybister H. neopardinum (non-Doran collection) Clivia miniatum with colors of light peach, bi-color, and/or picotee. I have or will have all the Hippeastrum species above and a few others (100 or so cultivars) and yellow Clivia (nice Nakamura yellow with high flower count and broad petals). Thank you kindly, Michael Loos From BBCNURSERY@aol.com Tue Jan 31 22:30:07 2006 Message-Id: <1f8.1a7a89f7.3111853c@aol.com> From: BBCNURSERY@aol.com Subject: Pleione Potting Mixes Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 22:30:04 EST I've always had good luck with equal parts of perlite, pumice, bark dust and coarse peat moss. Since I can't get the latter any more I'm using a coarser perlite, and fine orchid bark. I hope this works as well. I have observed and had reports from several folks even at higher elevations in this area that Pleione bulbocodioides 'Yunnan' does especially well in the garden, even without any overhead protection. Greig Warner Burnt Bridge Creek Nursery Vancouver, WA (Zone 8, Willamette Valley, Just across the River from Portland, OR) PS If anyone has a reliable source for course peat moss please share with all. I think it is one of the most important sources of "leaf mold", etc in a potting mixes. From piabinha@yahoo.com Tue Jan 31 23:07:05 2006 Message-Id: <20060201040704.20477.qmail@web51915.mail.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: OT: of shiitakes and peppercorns Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:07:04 -0800 (PST) i'd think there are easier/better ways to getting rid of fungus gnats. like keeping the soil a bit drier? did you say today you are eating some orchids???? what's that turkish ice cream called? something-sap? i must say, of all the lists i've been participating, this is the most culinary one. i can say sichuan peppercorn or konnyaku or eringi, and people actually know what that is... tsuh yang --- bonaventure@optonline.net wrote: > Trying it again today. No soup to be made, so the > crumbled and remoistened mushrooms are delicious to > me made with scrambled eggs and the precious liquid > smells nice (except to infesting insect populations) > going into container plants. Today I choose some > orchids. So there! > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com