Spanish iris NOT

James Waddick
Sat, 22 Jul 2006 08:38:28 PDT
Dear Mary Sue and with apologies to our Spanish member, I object to 
the Title of the wiki page.

	We get into trouble when you confuse common names like 
English and Spanish Iris with actual country designations.

	The Wiki page might be called  'Iris of Spain' which is VERY 
different from the Horticultural group of cvs known as "Spanish 
Iris". The better title should be "Xiphium Iris" because it includes 
the species and the 3 horticultural groups and species who grow 
beyond the political boundaries of Spain proper. It could be cross 
referenced to include the 3 horticultural groups.

	I tried to point out the oddness of all this in my earlier message.

	As I said "Traditionally Spanish Iris have been selections of 
I. xiphium PERIOD.
	Likewise, English iris are selections of I. latifolia PERIOD

	But, both of these and other related species* have 
contributed to the  complex of Dutch Iris

	Theoretically there can be NO hybrid English or Spanish Iris, 
by definition these would be Dutch Iris (all hybrids)."

	To be specific. Originally Spanish Iris were all only cvs of 
I. xiphium.  Hybrids* of I xiphium with any other species are then 
'automatically Dutch Iris.
	Same for English Iris (I latifolia cvs). Dutch iris are a 
sort of catch-all and are often given the name Iris xhollandica.

	But as soon as you start mixing species that SHOULD be called 
Dutch Iris.

	And all this has no relationship with what you will get when 
you order. As John Grimshaw said, yes the Dutch produce a lot of all 
three groups (so are they all "Dutch" iris because they come from 
Dutch nurseries?) But some specialty nurseries do (I think) produce 
some specialty bulbs with more care, just not easy to get.

	There's a lot of roulette in ordering Spanish and English 
Iris from Big Box dealers ( I won't name names, but you all get these 
colorful Fall bulbs catalogs).

		Makes total no sense to me, just the way it is.		Jim W.

* Hybrids. Jim McK mentioned the use of this word and it bugs me a 
lot. I use the word to mean a cross between two species or 
'inter-species hybrid'. Today you see the word used to indicate a 
cross between 2 genetic  lines. Such as Hybrid Japanese Iris which 
are in the same species I. ensata so my kind of hybrids are just not 
possible.   And many people in many plant groups will take a complex 
advanced multi generational cross (say a modern tall bearded iris) 
and cross it with a species such as I pallida and call it a "hybrid" 
or worse a species cross. Yes, but......

	Using my definition of hybrid as a species cross, there are 
no Spanish or English Iris hybrids, only Dutch iris.
	Cleaar as......
Dr. James W. Waddick
8871 NW Brostrom Rd.
Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711
Ph.    816-746-1949
Zone 5 Record low -23F
	Summer 100F +

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