Terence, I have to agree with you somewhat. I had 2 master gardeners that came to the nursery with a gardening friend. They had an "aire" to them. They were going through pointing out "special" plants. While my nursery, as small as it is, does have unusual things, they were pointing out the most common items and getting them wrong. I had a fig (Brown Turkey) that they said was an aralia. Um, no. I was delighted after the 4th or 5th wrong plant to point out to the gardener what the items actually were. Then they asked about a "treasure" which was a plain silver (think Home Deopt) Echevaria. They had never seen such a plant before and they ended up buying it. I wanted to charge them $30 just to make them think they had something rare but I believe in karma and it would have come back to me. When talking to people who are master gardeners (and this applies only to those that I have met and had said they werre MG's), they really don't know much of anything. Those that I have met became MG for the title and ego boost they get by saying they are MG. I have not met one (that I am aware) that had a reasonable head on their sholders w/o an ego problem. The program, in essence, is a good one. Too bad it has strayed so far from it's initial concept. If and when I have questions, there are many great forums and people with knowledge that anyone can turn to. For those w/o internet, there are still many resources, local gardening clubs for starters. There is no reason for a person to go without proper information. County extension agents, well, it's the government. Do I need to say more? I would love to hear some of Lee's stories though. (Maybe when you com eover for a visit???) John Ingram in L.A., CA. http://www.floralarchitecture.com/ "Your Clivia Connection" john@floralarchitecture.com 310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you)