In a message dated 4/12/2007 3:42:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, email@example.com writes: And I, also in Victoria, can't grow them despite years of trying. I've been trying to figure out why. The places I notice them are ungardened - under oaks at an old house, or along a recently widened Road edge. It seems that if they manage to survive, then they Survive on their own. Diane ~ Here in the Willamette Valley of Oregon, all of those mentioned grow quite well, often setting seed. Although, unlike Law, I've never noticed any seed set on 'Rolf Fielder.' Most of mine grow under my deciduous azaleas and get watered somewhat as I water the shrubs in the dry heat of summer. Apparently, they can occasionally exhibit have some exasperating quirks, as a large clump of Albert Castillo (originally from Jack Elliott some 15 years ago) did not appear one spring after having been a mass of flowers the previous years. I despaired at having lost something that had considerable value to me because of the source. Then, inexplicably, the patch showed up again a year later as if nothing had happened and just as floriferous as ever. Go figure! I have heard that some of them also like being warm and dry during the summer. I don't know as I've never tried that, having been successful just the way they are. Odd that you'd be having difficulty given that our growing conditions are so similar. As for these being "pure" clonal forms, I'd question 'Wisley Blue', as it seems to have several shades mixed in and it does seed about each year. The 'Alberto Castillo' and 'Charlotte Bishop' both came from the garden of Jack Elliot a number of years ago and I am assuming that they are the real thing. 'Rolf Fiedler' is so distinctive that any variation in its uniform shade of clear blue would be immediately noticeable, I would think. Dave Karnstedt Silverton, Oregon, USA Warm, dry summers; cool -> cold moist winters. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com/.