From totototo@telus.net Thu Mar 1 06:55:01 2007 Message-Id: <20070301115500.F228R74RG1@priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: A question about plants and bulbs through airport security Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 03:54:03 -0800 On 27 Feb 07, at 13:40, Laura & Dave wrote: > ...several of the bags full have not done well (Galanthus elwesii > and Leucojum vernum in particular), waning over the three year span > since arriving. I won't even hazard a guess about the x-rays, but the two plants you mention as not doing well have contrasting fates here in Victoria. Galanthus do very well here. The only common form that is a bit iffy is the little everyday double form of G. nivalis, which seems not to be as robust as the others. I suspect it simply doesn't handle root competition and shade all that well, and needs to be planted in an open situation away from significant trees and shrubs. I've seen it growing happily by drainage ditches in exposed situations that go bone dry in summer. Leucojum vernum, otoh (on the other hand), is a puzzle. I've planted many bulbs of this over the years, perhaps hundreds. Only two or three have survived and prospered; the rest disappeared years ago. Over the years, one of the survivors has formed a a seriously congested clump, which I lifted and divided just yesterday like snowdrops in the green. I am keeping my fingers crossed that L. vernum can handle disturbance during the growing season. Now the interesting thing is that of the twenty or so bulbs in that clump, one -- only one -- had grubs of the lesser bulb fly in it. There were no signs whatsoever of the larger bulb fly, though it is probably more common species of bulb fly here. I strongly suspect that the clumping of that one bulb is due to damage to the basal plate by the bulb fly; the clump had "that look" about it. I also speculate (but with much less confidence) that L. vernum is normally subject to the depredations of the bulb fly, but I have a clone here that is not particularly attractive to them. Don't quote me; this is pure speculation! The usual complaint about L. vernum is that the bulbs in the trade are so badly desiccated that they rot instead of growing. This is a criticism of considerable accuracy, but overlooks that there is a remedy. If the bulbs are first soaked in water until they firm up, then potted up in pure sand and kept there for a season or two, the majority survive. I've always done this and gotten the bulbs into a state of active growth before planting them out. They still have disappeared in large numbers. Frustrating. Comments, anyone? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From dkramb@badbear.com Thu Mar 1 08:14:47 2007 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20070301081400.01b21970@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Maryland update Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 08:14:51 -0500 >What is everyone else seeing? Dirty yucky black and gray snow.... nearly almost gone now though! No flowers yet. *SIGH* Dennis in Cincinnati From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Thu Mar 1 09:28:58 2007 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A06AE85B4@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Maryland update Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 08:28:56 -0600 The differences in growing conditions between Maryland and Chicago are significant. 2" of frozen slush greeted me this morning. A combination of hail, sleet and rain that kept up all night long. This mixture augments 2" - 4" of snow. Pulling the snow back from the Galanthus, they still appear to be in good shape. Narcissus foliage will probably have some dead tissue at the tips. Rain/sleet/hail is supposed to turn to snow this evening. Temperatures below freezing forecast for the weekend along with an inch or so of new snow. Definitely a weekend for bulb and seed catalogs and a fire in the fireplace. Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel: 847-835-6841 fax: 847-835-1635 email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Thu Mar 1 09:55:32 2007 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: Maryland update Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 07:59:58 -0700 >What is everyone else seeing? The powers that be have moved winter to February up here in Okotoks. We've had a brown dry winter and I always worry how plants will make it through the winter without several feet of snow cover. It has snowed just about every day this past month with temps around -10 - -20C. I will not complain about the snow, we desperately need the moisture. Nothing is happening in my cold frames yet, much too cold. Still have hippeastrums blooming in the house along with some dianthus, delphiniums and the odd allium that didn't get in the ground last fall. I'm eagerly anticipating spring this year, my rock garden out front was completed and filled with all sorts of goodies, bulbs and non-bulbs. I can't wait to see how it will look. For now I will have to be content with seed starting. And this I just find funny, Calgary, a Canadian city that does not have a snow removal budget? Linda Foulis Okotoks, AB Canada Zone 3? From llhorwitz@gmail.com Thu Mar 1 10:02:42 2007 Message-Id: <44ec88540703010702o4b60bf2cyb1c2ac01875cc4e4@mail.gmail.com> From: "Lola L Horwitz" Subject: Maryland update Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 10:02:40 -0500 Here in Brooklyn I have the same blooming winter aconites as Jim McKinney reported, snowdrops just a little behind them but both bulbs apparently unhurt by being exposed to the recent deep freezes. My *Viburnum farreri* gave a great show in January, earlier than ever before, and now looks pretty beat up. My north-facing handkerchief of a front yard is at least a zone or more colder than the south facing back. It's heavily piled with shoveled snow that won't melt for a while, even with warmer temperatures. But my Mahonia japonica did fine there in January offering its wonderful fragrance as I opened my garbage can situated next to it. In my little attached 'alpine house' a potted Daphne odora gave pleasure all winter, but the various species narcissus all failed to bloom this year -lots of foliage. Two of the NARGS seed just planted have germinated: *Eryngium humilinum * from Tajickistan and a peony marked simply 'Chameleon'. What a lift! Lola in brownstone Brooklyn about to get another lift by visiting the Bay Area. On 3/1/07, Dennis Kramb wrote: > > > >What is everyone else seeing? > > Dirty yucky black and gray snow.... nearly almost gone now though! > No flowers yet. > *SIGH* > > Dennis in Cincinnati > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From jyourch@nc.rr.com Thu Mar 1 10:34:13 2007 Message-Id: <004001c75c17$1068b810$0200a8c0@Office> From: "Jay Yourch" Subject: Maryland update Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 10:34:12 -0500 Hi Jim and all, Here in central North Carolina the tree peony buds are beyond swelling and are beginning to lengthen. Most of the herbaceous peonies are still sleeping but some of the bright red buds have extended a few inches above the surface. The stars of my garden right now are Narcissus, with 'Ice Follies', 'Jetfire', and 'Tête-à-tête' approaching peak bloom with 'Carlton', 'Saint Keverne', and 'Pinza' following. I put some pictures of Narcissus on the Wiki and also blogged about them. Here are the links if you're interested in reading or taking a peek at the pictures: http://stevesplantsandrants.blogspot.com/2007/02/seasonable-weather-returns.html http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusHybrids#Follies http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusHybrids#Jetfire http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusHybrids#Keverne http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusHybrids#Tete-a-tete Other plants just getting started are Leucojum aestivum, Helleborus × orientalis, Iris reticulata 'Harmony', and Veronica umbrosa 'Georgia Blue'. As Jim says, all of this is just a fraction of what's on the way, so I won't be bored either. Happy gardening, Jay Jim McKenney wrote: Tree peony buds are swelling, but all the herbaceous peonies are still sound asleep. All of this is of course only a fraction of what's on the way, and with relatively mild weather predicted for the week ahead, I won't be bored. What is everyone else seeing? From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Mar 1 10:44:31 2007 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: A question - Leucojum vernum Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 07:44:15 -0800 On 1-Mar-07, at 3:54 AM, totototo@telus.net wrote: On 27 Feb 07, at 13:40, Laura & Dave wrote: > ...several of the bags full have not done well (Galanthus elwesii > and Leucojum vernum in particular), waning over the three year span > since arriving. Leucojum vernum----- Only two or three have survived When I saw where L. vernum was growing in the wild in the Czech Republic, I knew why they never survived for me. It was in the same squelchy conditions where I would expect our native Lysichiton americanus. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Mar 1 11:22:26 2007 Message-Id: <000301c75c1d$cd201fb0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Maryland update Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 11:22:25 -0500 Thanks for the North Carolina update, Jay! As a matter of fact, I was browsing the wiki last week and noticed your new Narcissus images before you announced them. They are very colorful, much more so than the same cultivars as I grow them here. The temperature perhaps explains that - by the time these bloom here we are generally getting days with temps up into the 70s and even briefly 80s F. Years ago I had a sort of daffodil epiphany as I was helping at a big daffodil show. I was assigned to assist an important exhibitor who had flown in from the UK with a suitcase full of daffodils in bloom. I'll never forget the scene when she opened the suitcase: she was surrounded by experienced growers and exhibitors, and to the last one they let out gasps of surprise and amazement - and, no doubt, dismay as they mentally compared their own relatively puny daffs to those in that suitcase. The size and color were amazing: I've never seen locally grown daffodils so big, so vividly colored, so seemingly fat and sassy. At that time, my own daffodil growing experience had made me very skeptical of the photographs in daffodil catalogs: my daffodils never had the vivid colors shown there. Seeing the daffodils in that suitcase made me a believer - although it didn't do a thing to improve my home-grown plants. And isn't Veronica 'Georgia Blue' an amazing color! It's great with anything yellow or red, and luckily very easy - a great companion plant for many bulbs. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Narcissus cantabricus "clusii type" is beginning to open. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Mar 1 12:20:51 2007 Message-Id: <000901c75c25$f66f8ec0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Paeonia × chameleon was RE: Maryland update Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 12:20:50 -0500 Lola mentioned a peony named 'Chameleon'. Although an IPNI search turned up nothing, one site gives this citation: Paeonia × chameleon Troitsky (1930) ex Grossg That name is applied to " Wild hybrid between P. caucasica (P. mascula triternata) and P. wittmanniana" Here's the link I saw: http://pivoine-hellebore.com/pivoines/fichetechpivoine/ftpchameleon.htm Several comments: I'm surprised at the spelling chameleon - that's an Americanism, isn't it? I would have expected chamaeleon. Does anyone know if the authors of this name are Americans? Given the parentage, I am surprised that Lola is experiencing quick germination. Lola, what exactly is happening? I'll bet a root tip is emerging from the seed. If so, this seedling is likely to require a cold period before it will produce foliage. The photos given at the site cited (note the dexterous use of homophones-thank you) above really got me thinking. In one of those fascinatingly serendipitous coincidences, I just got confirmation that this fall I will be receiving a long-desired Saunders hybrid peony named 'Athena'. This hybrid bears some resemblance to this Paeonia × chameleon: both have pinkish white flowers with a strong pinkish-red splash of color at the base of the petals. At first glance, they look a bit like tree peony flowers. That they look a bit alike is no accident: 'Athena’ was reposted to have Paeonia macrophylla (wittmanniana) and P. mlokosewitschii in its ancestry. P. mlokosewitschii, P. macrophylla, P. wittmanniana and P. caucasica are now sometimes considered to be forms of P. daurica, so this old hybrid and this P. × chameleon must share many genetic similarities. In any case Lola, if you can flower them they should be lovely – and incidentally, not interspecific hybrids at all but simply variants of Paeonia daurica to those who accept that grouping. In doing some peony searching lately, I ran across a bit of information which is new to me (but now I forget where I saw it - my apologies to the source). If you had asked me recently about peony germination, I would have said that all germinate hypogeally. Not so: apparently Paeonia tenuifolia and the North American Paeonia have epigeal germination. Life is beautiful – and complex! Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the glowing red petioles of Oxalis ‘Garnet’ are the most colorful thing in the protected cold frame. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jyourch@nc.rr.com Thu Mar 1 13:26:46 2007 Message-Id: <004401c75c2f$2b047840$0200a8c0@Office> From: "Jay Yourch" Subject: Maryland update Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 13:26:45 -0500 Hi Jim, You're welcome for the North Carolina update. It's still cool here, especially at night, which does help the strong pigments stay bright. I cut some 'Ice Follies'' and 'Jetfire' to enjoy in a vase indoors and after a day or so the colors are not as intense, although 'Pinza' looks fresh for days, the intense yellow of the petals holding well while the orange of the cup intensifies. I hope to photograph most of the Narcissus collection this spring and post them to the Wiki, so if you're into Narcissus you can look forward to that, especially if you garden in a colder climate and are wishing you had a little more going on in the garden right now. Regards, Jay Jim McKenney wrote: Thanks for the North Carolina update, Jay! As a matter of fact, I was browsing the wiki last week and noticed your new Narcissus images before you announced them. They are very colorful, much more so than the same cultivars as I grow them here. The temperature perhaps explains that - by the time these bloom here we are generally getting days with temps up into the 70s and even briefly 80s F. From llhorwitz@gmail.com Thu Mar 1 13:40:33 2007 Message-Id: <44ec88540703011040q7055ae05ha58e8663456fdcc2@mail.gmail.com> From: "Lola L Horwitz" Subject: Paeonia × chameleon was RE: Maryland update Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 13:40:29 -0500 Thank you Jim for so much more information than I had on my early to emerge peony seeds. You're right about the spelling, it was listed in the NARGS seedlist as "chamaeleon (x)", no quotes, and came from Georg Adam in Germany who hasn't listed his email. As to whether epigeal or hypogeal, I'm looking at very red furled small leaves on a stem that is 1cm high. Will it be 7 years before I'm lucky enough to have bloom? Lola in Brooklyn where it's very sunny despite predictions for heavy rains soon. On 3/1/07, Jim McKenney wrote: > > Lola mentioned a peony named 'Chameleon'. > > Although an IPNI search turned up nothing, one site gives this citation: > Paeonia × chameleon Troitsky (1930) ex Grossg > > That name is applied to " Wild hybrid between P. caucasica (P. mascula > triternata) and P. wittmanniana" > > Here's the link I saw: > > http://pivoine-hellebore.com/pivoines/fichetechpivoine/ftpchameleon.htm > > Several comments: I'm surprised at the spelling chameleon - that's an > Americanism, isn't it? I would have expected chamaeleon. Does anyone know > if > the authors of this name are Americans? > > Given the parentage, I am surprised that Lola is experiencing quick > germination. Lola, what exactly is happening? I'll bet a root tip is > emerging from the seed. If so, this seedling is likely to require a cold > period before it will produce foliage. > > The photos given at the site cited (note the dexterous use of > homophones-thank you) above really got me thinking. In one of those > fascinatingly serendipitous coincidences, I just got confirmation that > this > fall I will be receiving a long-desired Saunders hybrid peony named > 'Athena'. This hybrid bears some resemblance to this Paeonia × chameleon: > both have pinkish white flowers with a strong pinkish-red splash of color > at > the base of the petals. At first glance, they look a bit like tree peony > flowers. > > That they look a bit alike is no accident: 'Athena' was reposted to have > Paeonia macrophylla (wittmanniana) and P. mlokosewitschii in its > ancestry. > P. mlokosewitschii, P. macrophylla, P. wittmanniana and P. caucasica are > now > sometimes considered to be forms of P. daurica, so this old hybrid and > this > P. × chameleon must share many genetic similarities. > > In any case Lola, if you can flower them they should be lovely – and > incidentally, not interspecific hybrids at all but simply variants of > Paeonia daurica to those who accept that grouping. > > In doing some peony searching lately, I ran across a bit of information > which is new to me (but now I forget where I saw it - my apologies to the > source). If you had asked me recently about peony germination, I would > have > said that all germinate hypogeally. Not so: apparently Paeonia tenuifolia > and the North American Paeonia have epigeal germination. > > Life is beautiful – and complex! > > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the glowing red > petioles of Oxalis 'Garnet' are the most colorful thing in the protected > cold frame. > > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From jamievande@freenet.de Thu Mar 1 13:41:08 2007 Message-Id: <45E71E37.3000200@freenet.de> From: "JamieV." Subject: Paeonia × chameleon was RE: Maryland update Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 19:40:55 +0100 Jim McKenney schrieb: > Lola mentioned a peony named 'Chameleon'. > > Although an IPNI search turned up nothing, one site gives this citation: > Paeonia × chameleon Troitsky (1930) ex Grossg > > Several comments: I'm surprised at the spelling chameleon - that's an > Americanism, isn't it? I would have expected chamaeleon. Does anyone know if > the authors of this name are Americans? > The author was apparently Georgian, Dr. Kemularia-Nathadze and the spelling I have seen is P. x chamaeleon, with the dypthong 'OE'. > Given the parentage, I am surprised that Lola is experiencing quick > germination. Lola, what exactly is happening? I'll bet a root tip is > emerging from the seed. If so, this seedling is likely to require a cold > period before it will produce foliage. I can concur with Lola, they do seem to be the fastest germinators I've experienced, showing leaves the following Spring. > In one of those fascinatingly serendipitous coincidences, I just got confirmation that this > fall I will be receiving a long-desired Saunders hybrid peony named > 'Athena'. This hybrid bears some resemblance to this Paeonia × chameleon: > both have pinkish white flowers with a strong pinkish-red splash of color at > the base of the petals. > Spot on! I grow 'Athena' as well and, other than height and leaf, which by 'Chamaeleon' is much more gold-green and taller, the flowers are similar. 'Athena' is a bit smaller, however. Let's not forget, 'Chamaeleon' is not a clone, it is a generic hybrid, therefore variation will occur. Also, I read its parentage as P. mlokosiewiczi x P caucasica' and the parentage of 'P. Athena' as P. lactiflora x (P. macrophylla x (P.mlokosieviczi x P. officianalis), which sounds improbable, but, who knows. > That they look a bit alike is no accident: 'Athena' was reposted to have > Paeonia macrophylla (wittmanniana) and P. mlokosewitschii in its ancestry. > P. mlokosewitschii, P. macrophylla, P. wittmanniana and P. caucasica are now > sometimes considered to be forms of P. daurica, so this old hybrid and this > P. × chameleon must share many genetic similarities. > I'm not sure I would lump these species together, as they seem to represent speciation and are generally identifyable as seperate. The entire species concept is artificial, so lets just continue in this vein and acknowledge the differences! I didn't realise all were currently placed under P. daurica (which apparently should have been P. taurica, but was falsely transcribed, being named after the Taurus Mountainrange), > Life is beautiful -- and complex! > I hear ya! By the was, I posted shots on the wiki some years ago of both P. 'Athena' and P. xchamaeleon. Jamie V. Cologne From paige@hillkeep.ca Thu Mar 1 14:07:19 2007 Message-Id: From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: Time out at Pacific Rim Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 11:02:02 -0800 Dear plant friends: Pacific Rim Native Plant Nursery has stopped accepting small mail orders until further notice. No, we are not closing. But our family needs more of our time. Something has to give. The nursery must get bigger or get smaller. For now, we have decided to make it smaller. Apologies for cross-posting. More details are at http://www.hillkeep.ca/time%20out.htm I will be offline for about a week now, but will be happy to answer questions when I'm back. Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Mar 1 14:52:21 2007 Message-Id: <001301c75c3b$1f368100$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Paeonia × chameleon was RE: Maryland update Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 14:52:18 -0500 Jamie, I'm so amazed and happy at your response to this post. When I wrote that post, I wondered if I might be wandering once again into such arcane territory that I would be putting people to sleep. I'm really astonished that not only is there someone out there who understands exactly what I'm saying, but also knows the issues well enough to reflect sensibly on them and add even more to this fascinating story. The local paper, the Washington Post, runs a weekly piece called Style Invitational. It works this way: a topic is stated, and people are invited to write in and complete the topic according to certain guidelines. Almost every week there will be instances where there will be multiple identical responses. Great minds think alike... But I never thought I would get a lucid response when I started to throw around some of the most gnarly peony names in the books. What a group this PBS forum is! Now I have some questions and comments on your post, Jamie. It's good to learn that Paeonia x chamaeleon germinates quickly. Here's the question: does it germinate in epigeal or hypogeal fashion? The parentage you gave for 'Athena' is slightly different than the one I am used to seeing. What I have read is this, which is more probable than the one you gave (and rightly doubted!): lactiflora x [officinalis x (mlokosewitschii x macrophylla)]. I'm not aware of any successful crosses between Paeonia officinalis and P. mlokosewitschii. Are there any? I went back to the wiki to see your image of 'Athena' but it's not there on the peony page and I didn't see it in /files either. Perhaps you can post it again? In a sense I'm glad that it was not there: now it is easier to believe that two people have independently traveled down this little known path! I have a gardening friend who shares many of my gardening interests and is if anything more acquisitive than I am. She is convinced that we are brother and sister separated at birth. I'll have to tell her that we evidently have another brother we didn't know about. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where it’s time to dig out more peony catalogs! My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jamievande@freenet.de Thu Mar 1 16:15:07 2007 Message-Id: <45E7425B.4040802@freenet.de> From: "JamieV." Subject: Paeonia × chameleon was RE: Maryland update Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 22:15:07 +0100 Jim McKenney schrieb: > Now I have some questions and comments on your post, Jamie. It's good to > learn that Paeonia x chamaeleon germinates quickly. Here's the question: > does it germinate in epigeal or hypogeal fashion? > Definitely hypogeal, displaying a three-lobed leaf in its first Spring, assuming it was planted directly after ripening. I have saved seed over the Winter (big mistake) and it takes another year to get them to germinate. > The parentage you gave for 'Athena' is slightly different than the one I am > used to seeing. What I have read is this, which is more probable than the > one you gave (and rightly doubted!): lactiflora x [officinalis x > (mlokosewitschii x macrophylla)]. > I prefer your parentage order, as this makes better sense. Mloko x macro is clearly possible, but , even when we consider all of the variations now under P. daurica, only crosses with P. lactiflora seem well known, although P. 'Pageant is an P. officianalis X (P. lactiflora x P. macrophylla), which is then similar to your version of P. 'Athena's parents and P. 'Roselette (Saunders 1943) is listed as P. lactiflora X (P officianals x P. macrophylla). Saunders was apparently always 'pushing the envelope' as he lists complex parentage, but not always the order of the cross. He even crossed P. emodi x P. lactiflora, which I have tried but never got it to take. > I'm not aware of any successful crosses between Paeonia officinalis and P. > mlokosewitschii. Are there any? > Reconsidering the question, it should work, as they are both diploids. > I went back to the wiki to see your image of 'Athena' but it's not there on > the peony page and I didn't see it in /files either. Perhaps you can post it > again? > I tried to re-load it, but my password didn't work. Gotta get a hold of Mary Sue! > In a sense I'm glad that it was not there: now it is easier to believe that > two people have independently traveled down this little known path! > > I am truly fascinated by Paeonia, there is a certain primitive beauty about them, the way they dare to grow before the snow is gone. I often ask myself how these ancient plants developed, as we do have tetraploid populations where one would expect only diploids. I did read a theory, where it was proposed that during the last ice age most of the northern diploids were wiped out and the few surviving tetraploids, which are relatively common near the poles, followed the melting glaciers to replace the missing diploids. This would explain the entire P. mascula complex, which is tetraploid and well distibuted in Russia through to Siberia. I have a cross of P. xChamaeleon x P. kavachensis, which may lend support to the idea that kavachensis is a true species. It should be a tetraploid, if it does belong to the mascula group, now shouldn't it? jamie PS: have you managed seed on P. japonica? > > > > > > From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Mar 1 17:16:28 2007 Message-Id: <001501c75c4f$4107f200$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Seed on Paeonia japonica; was: RE: Paeonia × chameleon was RE: Maryland update Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 17:16:25 -0500 JamieV asked “have you managed seed on P. japonica?” No, I have not, but one of my local gardening friends has. I'm pretty sure that garden also has P. obovata, so those seeds may be the result of hybridization. So far, in addition to self-pollination, I've tried pollen of P. mascula, P. emodi, P. wittmanniana and various P. suffruticosa cultivars without luck. Several of us here in the greater Washington, D.C. area grow this species, and next year we plan to keep in touch as they bloom to swap pollen. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where a seed of Paeonia emodi in the refrigerator is producing a leaf. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Mar 1 17:36:38 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20070301141245.00d6b538@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Bulbous plants of Turkey and Iran Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 14:22:14 -0800 I just received a copy of "Bulbous plants of Turkey and Iran," a photographic guide by Peter Sheasby, published by the Alpine Garden Society (UK). It can be purchased through their publications service at www.alpinegardensociety.net I got mine through a pre-publication offer to members at a cost of 27 pounds, but it probably costs somewhat more now. This is a softbound, 280-page, midsized book consisting mostly of color photographs of the plants, with "bulbous" being interpreted broadly, to include tuberous Ranunculaceae and a lot of orchids. The text (in ugly typography) consists of brief descriptions of each plant and its typical habitat. The photos, from numerous contributors, vary in quality but many are quite good. Variable species tend to have more than one photo for comparison of the variations. The text is not too helpful, though distinctive features are sometimes pointed out. If (like me) you were hoping for a book that would help you identify the smaller Colchicum species, keep hoping. Despite the brevity of textual information, this is a book that every fancier of hardy bulbs will want. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Mar 1 17:55:06 2007 Message-Id: <001601c75c54$a7fd44b0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Paeonia × chameleon was RE: Maryland update Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 17:55:05 -0500 × -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of JamieV. Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 4:15 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Paeonia × chameleon was RE: Maryland update Jim McKenney schrieb: > Now I have some questions and comments on your post, Jamie. It's good to > learn that Paeonia x chamaeleon germinates quickly. Here's the question: > does it germinate in epigeal or hypogeal fashion? > Definitely hypogeal, displaying a three-lobed leaf in its first Spring, assuming it was planted directly after ripening. I have saved seed over the Winter (big mistake) and it takes another year to get them to germinate. > The parentage you gave for 'Athena' is slightly different than the one I am > used to seeing. What I have read is this, which is more probable than the > one you gave (and rightly doubted!): lactiflora x [officinalis x > (mlokosewitschii x macrophylla)]. > I prefer your parentage order, as this makes better sense. Mloko x macro is clearly possible, but , even when we consider all of the variations now under P. daurica, only crosses with P. lactiflora seem well known, although P. 'Pageant is an P. officianalis X (P. lactiflora x P. macrophylla), which is then similar to your version of P. 'Athena's parents and P. 'Roselette (Saunders 1943) is listed as P. lactiflora X (P officianals x P. macrophylla). Saunders was apparently always 'pushing the envelope' as he lists complex parentage, but not always the order of the cross. He even crossed P. emodi x P. lactiflora, which I have tried but never got it to take. > I'm not aware of any successful crosses between Paeonia officinalis and P. > mlokosewitschii. Are there any? > Reconsidering the question, it should work, as they are both diploids. > I went back to the wiki to see your image of 'Athena' but it's not there on > the peony page and I didn't see it in /files either. Perhaps you can post it > again? > I tried to re-load it, but my password didn't work. Gotta get a hold of Mary Sue! > In a sense I'm glad that it was not there: now it is easier to believe that > two people have independently traveled down this little known path! > > I am truly fascinated by Paeonia, there is a certain primitive beauty about them, the way they dare to grow before the snow is gone. I often ask myself how these ancient plants developed, as we do have tetraploid populations where one would expect only diploids. I did read a theory, where it was proposed that during the last ice age most of the northern diploids were wiped out and the few surviving tetraploids, which are relatively common near the poles, followed the melting glaciers to replace the missing diploids. This would explain the entire P. mascula complex, which is tetraploid and well distibuted in Russia through to Siberia. I have a cross of P. xChamaeleon x P. kavachensis, which may lend support to the idea that kavachensis is a true species. It should be a tetraploid, if it does belong to the mascula group, now shouldn't it? jamie PS: have you managed seed on P. japonica? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Mar 1 17:57:26 2007 Message-Id: <001b01c75c54$fab32080$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: More on complex peony crosses Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 17:57:24 -0500 JamieV wrote “although P. 'Pageant is an P. officianalis X (P. lactiflora x P. macrophylla), which is then similar to your version of P. 'Athena's parents and P. 'Roselette (Saunders 1943) is listed as P. lactiflora X (P officianals x P. macrophylla). Saunders was apparently always 'pushing the envelope' as he lists complex parentage, but not always the order of the cross. He even crossed P. emodi x P. lactiflora, which I have tried but never got it to take.” My source gives Roselette as lactiflora ×(tenuifolia × mlokosewitschii); for Pageant, it gives the same parentage you give, but indicates that this is an F2 hybrid. Don’t give up on lactiflora × emodi: Saunders himself seems to have gotten fewer than twenty hybrids from this cross – evidently it’s doable but not easy. Saunders described P. emodi as self-sterile, but my plant sets viable seed on its own pollen. By the way, I assume Saunders used pollen of P. emodi on plants of P. lactiflora, but I’m not sure. P. emodi is one of the earliest peonies to bloom here in Maryland; it blooms weeks before the lactiflora sorts. My source for this information is The Peonies, edited by John Wister, 1962: it has lots of detailed information about Saunders, his methods, his sources, his notebooks and his hybrids. For those of you who have followed this thread, let me add some human interest. Saunders was the product of a distinguished Canadian family of intellectuals. He taught chemistry at Hamilton College in Clinton, N.Y., spoke German and played the violin when he was not hybridizing peonies. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where severe storm warnings are in effect throughout the night. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From msittner@mcn.org Fri Mar 2 09:56:50 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20070302064916.035044c0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: please describe the subject of your message Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 06:56:28 -0800 Hi everyone, Our list continues slowly to grow and we now have almost 400 members with many diverse interests. I'm sure not everyone reads every message so it is very helpful if you include an accurate subject for your message. This also helps when people search the archives. And if you are changing the subject when you reply to a message, please change the subject line in your email message instead of just clicking reply and leaving it like it was. We had a lot of "Maryland updates" this week that were really reports of what was blooming or not in places other than Maryland. Someone scanning the message subjects may not have realized that and missed something they would have wanted to read. Thanks. Mary Sue List Administrator From MLGD@aol.com Fri Mar 2 10:02:51 2007 Message-Id: From: MLGD@aol.com Subject: new member Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:02:46 EST Hello~~~ I'm new to this group, and actually, I've never been on a "list" so I'm not sure how this works. I came across Matt Mattus's blog (I'm not sure what a blog is exactly) and was so impressed because he was growing Lachenalia and Nerines and other South African bulbs. I grow a lot of South African plants and am growing a lot of South African bulbs in a greenhouse this winter. I live in Pennsylvania. I'd love to hear about other's experiences with South African bulbs (and other South African plants as well) in these cold climates as well as in more reasonable areas for growing them (Pacific Northwest, California, Florida, etc.). Hope this is what I'm supposed to do to make contact. Thanks for any instructions you can pass on to me for how to "do lists" and "do blogs." Marilyn


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From msittner@mcn.org Fri Mar 2 10:21:02 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20070302070744.03561458@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Welcome Marilyn and new member information Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 07:20:37 -0800 Dear Marilyn, Thanks for introducing yourself to our group and welcome. You did just fine. You will find a lot of information about South African bulbs if you look through our wiki. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/PhotographsAndInformation is where you will find the list of genera that we have pictures and information about. We just had a lot of good information shared with the group on Lachenalia and I added the links on the wiki page. For a couple of years we had topics of the week where certain subjects were discussed and I listed them and added links to the wiki for them as well. You can find them here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TOW Look for Mark Mazer's introduction for April 2003 and any others that catch your fancy. It's probably a good idea also to remind everyone about how to search our archives. I have this listed on the Pacific Bulb Society web page. The list archives can be viewed by using Google and entering in the search box the following: +[pbs] [search terms] site:lists.ibiblio.org If you wanted to see what people had said about Nerine before on our list you would write this in the search box: +[pbs] [Nerine] site:lists.ibiblio.org And if you have specific questions, please ask. I'm sending this to everyone and not privately as we continue to get new members who do not introduce themselves and might find this information helpful. Mary Sue From totototo@telus.net Fri Mar 2 10:50:21 2007 Message-Id: <20070302155013.62MJHR2X7B@priv-edmwaa05.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: A question - Leucojum vernum Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 07:48:50 -0800 On 1 Mar 07, at 7:44, Diane Whitehead wrote: > When I saw where L. vernum was growing in the wild in the Czech > Republic, I knew why they never survived for me. It was in the same > squelchy conditions where I would expect our native Lysichiton > americanus. Was it a site that is always squelchy, or just seasonally so? Our native skunk cabbage grows in some sites that are pretty dry in the summer. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From msittner@mcn.org Fri Mar 2 11:00:30 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20070302073245.035f1d80@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Gladiolus pictures Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 07:59:03 -0800 Hi, In the middle of doing the thumbnails for the Southern African Gladiolus wiki pages I decided to add some habitat shots from our trip to South Africa in August and September last year and others from Cameron McMaster's CD that shows pictures from the area he lives in, the Overberg, and some from the western Cape as well. This is taking a bit of time since there are so many of them. One of the things that strikes me always is the variation you see in the wild. The Gladiolus species are so gorgeous I think. Blooming for me now are Gladiolus gracilis and all the Gladiolus huttonii hybrids and there are lots of spikes here and there of other species. I've been picking more of them this year so I can enjoy them before the rain ruins them. So as not to overwhelm you I'm going to announce the Gladiolus pages as I finish them instead of all at once. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusOne I added habitat pictures of Gladiolus abbreviatus from Cameron. I still think this is a rather strange looking one that grows in grassy areas. I added more habitat pictures of Gladiolus alatus too. We saw it a lot of times on our trip, but the ones pictured were ones we couldn't forget. For one thing there was a mass of them. And for another, not far from where we saw them a farmer had plowed over a huge mass of them and just left it a ruinous mess. What he had done was illegal we were told and he hadn't done anything to plant the field afterwards. Perhaps it was a way to say later there was nothing special on his property he needed to protect. It was very sad to see. There are new habitat pictures from Cameon of G. brevifolius and G. bullatus. And there is an especially nice picture of G. carinatus Cameron took at Hopefield in the western Cape. Pictures from him of Gladiolus carmineus in habitat illustrate how often this one grows with a view of the ocean. The same was true of G. cunonius growing near Arniston. I live within the sight of the Pacific Ocean in northern California and G. carmineus is naturalizing in my garden, but G. cunonius that is about to bloom I have less success growing. I keep trying it again from seed, but the leaves get damaged in our wet winters. Perhaps the difference is that G. carmineus blooms in fall when it is still usually dry here. Finally there are a couple more habitat pictures of the beautiful G. debilis from Cameron. More pages to come when I finish. I have some more wild pictures of the other species in what I'll call the Gladiolus alatus complex. There is probably a more official name for these, but they are the ones that look similar: Gladiolus alatus, Gladiolus equitans, Gladiolus meliusculus, G. pulcherrimus and G. speciosus. Mary Sue From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Mar 2 11:02:03 2007 Message-Id: <000901c75ce4$1db77650$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: new member Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:02:00 -0500 Welcome to the list, Marilyn. Where in Pennsylvania do you live? I'm in Montgomery County, Maryland, just north of Washington, D.C. Although I've been growing and enjoying bulbs all of my life it seems, I'm a relative newbie with respect to the plants of southern Africa. I grow a small selection of Lachenalia, Nerine, south African Oxalis and others. My particular focus now is to learn which of these plants can be grown using a cold frame (I don't have a greenhouse and just about every plant I bring into the house dies). I'm still feeling my way with these plants. You'll fine that there is an amazing depth of knowledge and experience within this group, both with respect to the plants of southern Africa, bulbs and plants in general - and sources! If you're wondering about something, chances are someone in the group has already wondered about it, too, and has some experiences to share. I think those of us in the east have certain problems we have to work out on our own. I hope you will post your successes and failures freely. And if you have a digital camera, please consider posting images to the wiki. And do look over carefully Mary Sue's instructions for searching the archives: I have not been a member of this list since its inception, and by searching I've run across a lot of older posts in the archives which are really interesting - and which I would otherwise have missed. I hope we will be hearing from you again soon. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where today it not only looks a bit like spring, it sounds and smells like it, too. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From MLGD@aol.com Fri Mar 2 11:40:28 2007 Message-Id: <8C92B0097E7CF1A-19A0-E4A@WEBMAIL-RA12.sysops.aol.com> From: mlgd@aol.com Subject: "Lachenalia pearsonii" NOT question Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 11:40:17 -0500 Hi Jim~~~ I live in Dallastown, PA just outside of York. I belong to the Maryland Hort Society and sometimes I attend meetings of the Mason-Dixon Chapter of the NARGS. I say this because your name sounds very familiar to me and I was wondering if I've met you at one of those meetings. Right now, today (which does look like spring outside and it is tempting me to leave my desk) I'm doing some research on Lachenalia. I'm doing a project with some of my students at York College--we're looking at growing SA geophytes as winter-blooming houseplants. More specifically, we're growing 12 species of Lachenalia (actually 2 are cultivars) and a quite a few other SA geophytes. One curious thing I've come across about lachenalia pearsonii is: "The name L. pearsonii has for many years been incorrectly used for the plant which is readily available in the trade; the latter is in fact a New Zealand raised hybrid with pendulous orange-yellow flowers and maroon tips. The true L. pearsonii is as yet unknown in cultivation." (The Lachenalia Handbook, Graham Duncan) The Lachenalia Handbook by Graham Duncan which is the resource most people reference when referring to Lachenalia, though it is from 1988. He's the authority on Lachenalia and is charge of the bulb collection at Kirstenbosch National Botanical Garden in Cape Town. He's in the process of writing the definitive book on Lachenalia which will include many more species of Lachenalia than were described in his earlier handbook. Graham describes L. pearsonii as having "two linear leaves and the bulb is surrounded with numerous rigid tunics, forming a distinct neck. The inflorescence consists of small, widely campanulate white flowers which have brownish-blue markings at their tips." I'd like to know the origin of this New Zealand grown cultivar as I'm growing this evidently misnamed cultivar. My further dilemma is that Manning, Goldblatt and Snijman don't mention L. pearsonii at all in thier Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs and Duncan doesn't mention it either in later Bulbous Plants of Southern Africa. Any insight? Looks like I better write an email to Graham and get the scoop from him, too. I was very excited to just receive the email with the SA Galdioli link. WOW. This connection is so exciting--I feel like I'm in plant info heaven. Marilyn Daly -----Original Message----- From: jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] new member Welcome to the list, Marilyn. Where in Pennsylvania do you live? I'm in Montgomery County, Maryland, just north of Washington, D.C. Although I've been growing and enjoying bulbs all of my life it seems, I'm a relative newbie with respect to the plants of southern Africa. I grow a small selection of Lachenalia, Nerine, south African Oxalis and others. My particular focus now is to learn which of these plants can be grown using a cold frame (I don't have a greenhouse and just about every plant I bring into the house dies). I'm still feeling my way with these plants. You'll fine that there is an amazing depth of knowledge and experience within this group, both with respect to the plants of southern Africa, bulbs and plants in general - and sources! If you're wondering about something, chances are someone in the group has already wondered about it, too, and has some experiences to share. I think those of us in the east have certain problems we have to work out on our own. I hope you will post your successes and failures freely. And if you have a digital camera, please consider posting images to the wiki. And do look over carefully Mary Sue's instructions for searching the archives: I have not been a member of this list since its inception, and by searching I've run across a lot of older posts in the archives which are really interesting - and which I would otherwise have missed. I hope we will be hearing from you again soon. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where today it not only looks a bit like spring, it sounds and smells like it, too. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From msittner@mcn.org Fri Mar 2 12:15:12 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20070302090904.0333bc38@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: "Lachenalia pearsonii" NOT question Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:14:44 -0800 Dear Marilyn, Most of us consider the Lachenalia 'Pearsonii' you are talking about as a cultivar of L. aloides, which is one of best species in my opinion. I love all of varieties I grow. In the Hobbs and Hatch book on bulbs (New Zealand authors), they write under the descriptions from L. aloides : 'Pearsonii' is a widely grown selection with bright scarlet-orange flowers edged with red. It was raised in New Zealand and has long been considered to be a hybrid but is now thought to be a form of L. aloides. It should not be confused with the species L. pearsonii." Mary Sue From agoston.janos@citromail.hu Fri Mar 2 12:22:00 2007 Message-Id: <004501c75cef$29e919f0$0d4afea9@gzw1jo1xwad0ctx> From: "Agoston Janos" Subject: skunk cabbage Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 18:21:06 +0100 Hi All, Can anybody help me to find Symplocarpus foetidus seeds or seedlings please? Bye, Jani Z5a ----- Original Message ----- From: totototo@telus.net To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] A question - Leucojum vernum On 1 Mar 07, at 7:44, Diane Whitehead wrote: > When I saw where L. vernum was growing in the wild in the Czech > Republic, I knew why they never survived for me. It was in the same > squelchy conditions where I would expect our native Lysichiton > americanus. Was it a site that is always squelchy, or just seasonally so? Our native skunk cabbage grows in some sites that are pretty dry in the summer. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Mar 2 12:35:34 2007 Message-Id: <000b01c75cf1$309c6ca0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: skunk cabbage Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 12:35:35 -0500 There is a good chance I can get some seeds for you, maybe in November. There is a smaller chance that I might be able to get some newly germinated seeds now. But how can I get them to you? Symplocarpus seed does not respond well to dry storage, and when stored moist and cool they turn to pudding. Please respond to me privately if you want to follow up on this. Roger mentioned the west coast skunk cabbage, Lysichiton. Is anyone on the east coast growing this successfully? I have both species in my garden, and they have been there for years, but they are growing very haltingly. And the sprouts often show freeze damage. Neither has bloomed yet (i.e. ever here) . Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryla Pacific Bulb Societynd, USA, USDA zone 7, where tommies are blooming right and left. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Mar 2 12:42:02 2007 Message-Id: <629FC62B-B7A4-47B7-AE22-E5DC3466C363@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: A question - Leucojum vernum Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 09:41:47 -0800 Diane Whitehead wrote: > When I saw where L. vernum was growing in the wild in the Czech > Republic, I knew why they never survived for me. It was in the same > squelchy conditions where I would expect our native Lysichiton > americanus. Rodger Whitlock wrote: Was it a site that is always squelchy, or just seasonally so? Our native skunk cabbage grows in some sites that are pretty dry in the summer. They were in a low area along a stream, with additional moisture being provided by melting snow. It would be drier in summer, but I'm sure it is never dry. There is a photo of them growing in a similar condition in Jim Jermyn's book, Alpine Plants of Europe. The photo is in Timber Press' online excerpt: http://www.timberpress.com/pdfs/excerpts/ 9780881927344e.pdf Diane Whitehead From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Fri Mar 2 12:48:46 2007 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: skunk cabbage Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 12:48:46 -0500 Lysichiton americanum grows quite vigorously at Garden in the Woods in Framingham, MA. I once tried L. camschatsense (sp?) when I worked at Fernwood in Niles, Michigan, but it dwindled away. Russell At 12:35 PM 3/2/2007, Jim McKenney wrote: >Roger mentioned the west coast skunk cabbage, Lysichiton. Is anyone on the >east coast growing this successfully? I have both species in my garden, and >they have been there for years, but they are growing very haltingly. And the >sprouts often show freeze damage. Neither has bloomed yet (i.e. ever here) . Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Fri Mar 2 12:50:57 2007 Message-Id: <001a01c75cf3$556be090$0200a8c0@2CVEVE1> From: "Brian Whyer" Subject: skunk cabbage Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 17:50:57 -0000 > Can anybody help me to find Symplocarpus foetidus seeds or seedlings please? > > When I saw where L. vernum was growing in the wild in the Czech > > Republic, I knew why they never survived for me. It was in the same > > squelchy conditions where I would expect our native Lysichiton > > americanus. As the new member Marilyn will find out, you learn something new quite often on this list. I had not realised, or maybe just forgotten, that Symplocarpus was also called skunk cabbage. I am used to the yellow http://www.theroyallandscape.co.uk/thegarden/The+Savill+Garden+Gallery.htm?w bc_purpose=Basic&WBCMODE=PresentationUnpublished and white forms of Lysichiton, which also grows at Saville garden not far from my home. I always think it looks more like a giant cos lettuce. Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8? Where the magnolias are breaking, many weeks early From garden@tiscali.co.uk Fri Mar 2 12:54:49 2007 Message-Id: From: Graham Rice Subject: skunk cabbage Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 12:54:43 -0500 I have L. camschatsense in zone 5 here in north east PA. One plant set by the streamside disappeared, perhaps washed away. The other, in a drier spot, flowers every year although with no great majesty. I may well move to a damper place this year. Graham Rice http://www.TransatlanticPlantsman.com >Lysichiton americanum grows quite vigorously at Garden in the Woods >in Framingham, MA. I once tried L. camschatsense (sp?) when I worked >at Fernwood in Niles, Michigan, but it dwindled away. > >Russell > >At 12:35 PM 3/2/2007, Jim McKenney wrote: >>Roger mentioned the west coast skunk cabbage, Lysichiton. Is anyone on the >>east coast growing this successfully? I have both species in my garden, and >>they have been there for years, but they are growing very haltingly. And the >>sprouts often show freeze damage. Neither has bloomed yet (i.e. ever here) . > >Russell Stafford >Odyssey Bulbs >PO Box 382 >South Lancaster, MA 01561 >508-335-8106 > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Fri Mar 2 12:55:19 2007 Message-Id: <001b01c75cf3$f14f1a90$0200a8c0@2CVEVE1> From: "Brian Whyer" Subject: skunk cabbage Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 17:55:19 -0000 Try this link instead http://tinyurl.com/3cdhha It is the middle photo in the block of thumbnails. From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Fri Mar 2 13:33:43 2007 Message-Id: <004c01c75cf9$4cc305d0$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: skunk cabbage Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 18:33:38 -0000 Janis Ruksans is selling Symplocarpus this year, with a lovely picture of it on the cover of his catalogue. For some reason it doesn't seem to do well in England - not sure why not - and one very seldom sees it here. The best example I know is at Kew. On the other hand, Lysitchiton americanum is a terrible weed in some watercourses. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 COLESBOURNE PARK SNOWDROP OPEN DAYS 2007 Every Saturday and Sunday in February (3/4, 10/11, 17/18, 24/25) and 3/4 March Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Whyer" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] skunk cabbage >> Can anybody help me to find Symplocarpus foetidus seeds or seedlings > please? > >> > When I saw where L. vernum was growing in the wild in the Czech >> > Republic, I knew why they never survived for me. It was in the same >> > squelchy conditions where I would expect our native Lysichiton >> > americanus. > > As the new member Marilyn will find out, you learn something new quite > often > on this list. > I had not realised, or maybe just forgotten, that Symplocarpus was also > called skunk cabbage. I am used to the yellow > http://www.theroyallandscape.co.uk/thegarden/The+Savill+Garden+Gallery.htm?w > bc_purpose=Basic&WBCMODE=PresentationUnpublished and white forms of > Lysichiton, which also grows at Saville garden not far from my home. I > always think it looks more like a giant cos lettuce. > > Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8? > Where the magnolias are breaking, many weeks early > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 01/03/2007 > > From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Fri Mar 2 13:38:53 2007 Message-Id: <004d01c75cfa$056c9510$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: A question - Leucojum vernum Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 18:38:48 -0000 I think that I have probably seen the same population of Leucojum vernum in the Czech Republic as Diane Whitehead: it's swampy ground along a stream running through an Alder (Alnus) wood and certainly very squelchy at flowering time. Although it probably dries out considerably in summer, the Alder trees indicate that it must remain reasonably damp throughout the year. Here at Colesbourne Leucojum vernum flourishes in shallow dry soil under deciduous and coniferous trees where the soil dries out completely in summer - quite contrary to all normal ideas about the species' requirements. The plants in these conditions seem in fact to do better than those in damp grass by the lake. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 COLESBOURNE PARK SNOWDROP OPEN DAYS 2007 Every Saturday and Sunday in February (3/4, 10/11, 17/18, 24/25) and 3/4 March Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Whitehead" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] A question - Leucojum vernum > Diane Whitehead wrote: > >> When I saw where L. vernum was growing in the wild in the Czech >> Republic, I knew why they never survived for me. It was in the same >> squelchy conditions where I would expect our native Lysichiton >> americanus. > > Rodger Whitlock wrote: > Was it a site that is always squelchy, or just seasonally so? Our > native skunk cabbage grows in some sites that are pretty dry in the > summer. > > They were in a low area along a stream, with additional moisture > being provided by melting snow. It would be drier in summer, but I'm > sure it is never dry. > > There is a photo of them growing in a similar condition in Jim > Jermyn's book, Alpine Plants of Europe. The photo is in Timber > Press' online excerpt: http://www.timberpress.com/pdfs/excerpts/ > 9780881927344e.pdf > > Diane Whitehead > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 01/03/2007 > > From agoston.janos@citromail.hu Fri Mar 2 13:53:55 2007 Message-Id: <003b01c75cfb$ff7c9590$0d4afea9@gzw1jo1xwad0ctx> From: "Agoston Janos" Subject: skunk cabbage Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 19:52:59 +0100 Thank you, but I do not know Janis's e-mail address or anything about him. I just know, that he is selling top rarities of bulbs. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Grimshaw To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] skunk cabbage Janis Ruksans is selling Symplocarpus this year, with a lovely picture of it on the cover of his catalogue. For some reason it doesn't seem to do well in England - not sure why not - and one very seldom sees it here. The best example I know is at Kew. On the other hand, Lysitchiton americanum is a terrible weed in some watercourses. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 COLESBOURNE PARK SNOWDROP OPEN DAYS 2007 Every Saturday and Sunday in February (3/4, 10/11, 17/18, 24/25) and 3/4 March Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Whyer" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] skunk cabbage >> Can anybody help me to find Symplocarpus foetidus seeds or seedlings > please? > >> > When I saw where L. vernum was growing in the wild in the Czech >> > Republic, I knew why they never survived for me. It was in the same >> > squelchy conditions where I would expect our native Lysichiton >> > americanus. > > As the new member Marilyn will find out, you learn something new quite > often > on this list. > I had not realised, or maybe just forgotten, that Symplocarpus was also > called skunk cabbage. I am used to the yellow > http://www.theroyallandscape.co.uk/thegarden/The+Savill+Garden+Gallery.htm?w > bc_purpose=Basic&WBCMODE=PresentationUnpublished and white forms of > Lysichiton, which also grows at Saville garden not far from my home. I > always think it looks more like a giant cos lettuce. > > Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8? > Where the magnolias are breaking, many weeks early > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 01/03/2007 > > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Mar 2 14:05:08 2007 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: A question - Leucojum vernum Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:04:54 -0800 John Grimshaw wrote: Here at Colesbourne Leucojum vernum flourishes in shallow dry soil under deciduous and coniferous trees where the soil dries out completely in summer ========================== John, Do you think these plants have seeded themselves under the trees and only the ones that could thrive in dry conditions remain? Or perhaps they were originally planted there and watered heavily to become established? Or have their bulbs pulled themselves down really deep? (though you say the soil is shallow, so that can't be the answer.) I would like to be able to grow them. In addition to their visual appeal, they are beautifully scented. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Fri Mar 2 14:10:06 2007 Message-Id: <009701c75cfe$61a6d300$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: A question - Leucojum vernum Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 19:10:01 -0000 Diane Whitehead asked: > Do you think these plants have seeded themselves under the trees and > only the ones that could thrive in dry conditions remain? Or perhaps > they were originally planted there and watered heavily to become > established? Or have their bulbs pulled themselves down really > deep? (though you say the soil is shallow, so that can't be the > answer.) The self-selection theory is possible as the original colony has been there for at least 80 years, probably left from a time when the site was properly cultivated, so there has been ample time for a certain degree of adaptation to become fixed. The bulbs are certainly no more than 5 cm (2 in) deep above broken limestone brash. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 COLESBOURNE PARK SNOWDROP OPEN DAYS 2007 Every Saturday and Sunday in February (3/4, 10/11, 17/18, 24/25) and 3/4 March Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Whitehead" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] A question - Leucojum vernum > > John Grimshaw wrote: > > Here at Colesbourne Leucojum vernum flourishes in shallow dry soil under > deciduous and coniferous trees where the soil dries out completely in > summer > ========================== > > John, > > Do you think these plants have seeded themselves under the trees and > only the ones that could thrive in dry conditions remain? Or perhaps > they were originally planted there and watered heavily to become > established? Or have their bulbs pulled themselves down really > deep? (though you say the soil is shallow, so that can't be the > answer.) > > I would like to be able to grow them. In addition to their visual > appeal, they are beautifully scented. > > > Diane Whitehead > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate > mild rainy winters, mild dry summers > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 01/03/2007 > > From dells@voicenet.com Fri Mar 2 15:14:02 2007 Message-Id: <20070302201402.941244C013@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: new member/lachenalia Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 15:13:41 -0500 Dear Marilyn, Welcome to the PBS list! I too live in PA (north of Phila.) and in the past, I grew quite a few Lachenalias indoors under lights. I found that they grew and bloomed most successfully with very bright light and very cool temps. In the attic room where I grew them, the winter temps stayed in the low 40's F for days on end and sometimes went into the high 30's. And that's what they liked the best. Not long ago Mary Sue reposted an introduction to lachs from Don Journet in Australia. You can find it in the archives or perhaps on the wiki, and Don's email address may even be there (I don't remember if he is a member of our list.) He is a very nice guy and grows zillions of lachenalias. Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX SE PA, Zone 6/7 From JFlintoff@aol.com Fri Mar 2 16:15:31 2007 Message-Id: <8C92B270A4251B4-6B8-8270@WEBMAIL-RC20.sysops.aol.com> From: jflintoff@aol.com Subject: A question - Leucojum vernum Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 16:15:29 -0500 England's climate includes more summer rain than we receive here in the Pacific NW. That said, I find they thrive here in Puget Sound without summer watering, though none on them is planted among tree or shrub roots. Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washington,USA Zone 8 ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Fri Mar 2 16:59:17 2007 Message-Id: <763383.70530.qm@web86304.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: BRIAN WHYER Subject: A question - Leucojum vernum Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 21:59:07 +0000 (GMT) I have 2 small groups of Leucojum vernum, maybe 8-10 or so bulbs in each, just 6 feet apart. The oldest group maybe 6-9 inches from a now large polystichium setiferum divisilobum, has increased from 3 or 4 original bulbs but now is part shaded by the fern, and kept relatively dry. It has only 2 flowers this year. The newer clump, starting from a similar number of bulbs, is at the base of a now dead flowering cherry, in good light, but has 9 flowers and is much more vigorous, even though it is competing with cyclamen, eranthis, pulmonaria etc. The natural soil is dry well drained and chalky and they get little artificial watering. I plan to move the original group soon before it fails alltogether. I have never noticed any seed in previous years when they were both flowering. Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 Diane Whitehead wrote: John Grimshaw wrote: Here at Colesbourne Leucojum vernum flourishes in shallow dry soil under deciduous and coniferous trees where the soil dries out completely in summer ========================== John, Do you think these plants have seeded themselves under the trees and only the ones that could thrive in dry conditions remain? Or perhaps they were originally planted there and watered heavily to become established? Or have their bulbs pulled themselves down really deep? (though you say the soil is shallow, so that can't be the answer.) I would like to be able to grow them. In addition to their visual appeal, they are beautifully scented. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From agoston.janos@citromail.hu Fri Mar 2 17:22:47 2007 Message-Id: <003c01c75d19$270800f0$0d4afea9@gzw1jo1xwad0ctx> From: "Agoston Janos" Subject: Leucojum vernum Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 23:21:41 +0100 Hi All, Leucojum is native in Hungary, and it is protected, because of overcollection. Both green and yellow spotted forms are native and ther are double flowered forms too. L. v. var. vernum has got single flowered stems, with green blotches at the end of the petals. var. wagneri is same as vernum, but stems have got 2 flowers. var. carpathicum has got single flowered stems with yellow spots. These are native as far as I know... and the last is the common. var. podpolozje is same as carpathicum with double flowers. This is not native and have not seen here yet... These bubs were sold here, and are still sold from cultivated stock from Hungary. The Dutch is not good. Bulbs cannot dry out, or they rot away. So they must be packed damp as lilies. I have made a special frame for bulbs. 30 cm deep sandy soil, which may dry out fully in summer altough it is warered 2 weeks. They are planted at least 15 cm deep, but the best is 20-25 cm. I think they root into the clay which is the soil here under the frame, and they get sufficient moisture during summer thanks to the roots so they are alive for 4 years now. altough the ferns were dryed out summer in that frame... So I think you do not need a wet place for them, just ensure the roots are allways attached to the bulb. With a whole year moist soil you may have a big vegetative propagation, just let them establish. They do not like disturbance. I grow L. aestivum too. They set seeds and they are not as demanded as L. vernum. Bulbs also do not like disturbance, and best is when they are evergreen, or green in the most parts of the year. When planted in clay they were green from march till the end of october. In the first 2 years the 8/10 bulbs does not flowered at all, but grown to size 14/16 and 16/+. If overcrowded divisions can be made in July. Ensure, that the roots are in a damp soil during manipulation. They re-root in 2-4 weeks, so watering is necessary. Last year or the year before last I had to replant the whole frame so I put them in pots till replanting, and they survived and flowered next year. Not as much as before, but 4 flowers were on a stem. Hope this helps... Jani Z5a From idavide@sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 2 17:34:22 2007 Message-Id: <285862.75268.qm@web81012.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Airports and Plants Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 14:34:21 -0800 (PST) I can understand wanting to collect plants and get them home, but you may be bypasing state laws which have been put in place for good reason: to prevent the spread of noxious pests and pathogens. You may, probably are, very careful to clean your collected material, but that may not be enough. Years ago, when I lived in Southern California, and had a wonderful cactus collection, I went on a collecting junket to Arizona. I sneaked some thoroughly cleaned plants back home. But, when I inspected them later, I found an insect, still alive, burrowed deep inside one of them. It's worth letting the government agents do ther job -- they have all the proper equipment. And surprisingly, they really are on your side. David Ehrlich . From MLGD@aol.com Fri Mar 2 18:38:41 2007 Message-Id: <8C92B3B07BDE56A-71C-85FC@WEBMAIL-DF06.sysops.aol.com> From: mlgd@aol.com Subject: "Lachenalia pearsonii" NOT question Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 18:38:35 -0500 Hello Mary Sue~~~~ This is exactly what I needed to know. I'm so glad to have discovered this resource. I've had some very good feedback. Thank you. Marilyn -----Original Message----- From: msittner@mcn.org To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] re "Lachenalia pearsonii" NOT question Dear Marilyn, Most of us consider the Lachenalia 'Pearsonii' you are talking about as a cultivar of L. aloides, which is one of best species in my opinion. I love all of varieties I grow. In the Hobbs and Hatch book on bulbs (New Zealand authors), they write under the descriptions from L. aloides : 'Pearsonii' is a widely grown selection with bright scarlet-orange flowers edged with red. It was raised in New Zealand and has long been considered to be a hybrid but is now thought to be a form of L. aloides. It should not be confused with the species L. pearsonii." Mary Sue _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From eagle85@flash.net Fri Mar 2 23:20:49 2007 Message-Id: <75FD78A1-C93E-11DB-84CB-00050277B6E6@flash.net> From: Doug Westfall Subject: Scadoxus puniceus alba Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 20:20:04 -0800 To those who acquired Scadoxus puniceus alba Last year, I have had four of the seedlings bloom this year. Three of them are white, and the fourth is a light apricot in color. Remember that I reminded everyone that seedlings have a great potential for variety in their "gene pool." Good luck, and let me know how yours have turned out. Doug From msittner@mcn.org Sat Mar 3 10:31:52 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20070303072024.0169d718@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: More Gladiolus pictures Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 07:31:34 -0800 Hi, I finished the second Southern African Gladiolus page. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusTwo There is a new species added from Cameron McMaster, Gladiolus floribundus. There are more habitat shots added from Cameron and from the trip my husband and I took to South Africa in 2006. Gladiolus equitans-- in seed in Namaqualand, Gladiolus gracils (new pink one just blooming from seed in one of my pots and a number of habitat shots from Cameron showing many different color forms), Gladiolus hirsutus (photographed by me near the Du Toit Kloop pass in August and by Cameron in Hermanus and Napier), Gladiolus liliaceus ( a very red one from Cameron), Gladiolus miniatus from Cameron near Arniston, and finally another new species added in the Gladiolus alatus group, Gladiolus meliusculus seen near Darling close to Babiana ringens habitat in September (photographed by my husband, Bob Rutemoeller and by me.) Notice how sandy this last habitat is. Mary Sue From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Mar 3 13:18:02 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Peony Misc, Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 11:08:06 -0600 Dear Jim et al; Just back from a few days soaking up some (horti)culture. I thought I'd throw out some 2 cent(es) on recent topics. There are 2 different Chameleons here. 1) P. x chamaeleon Troitsky 1930. his is described briefly in "The Genus Paeonia" by Halda and Waddick. It is natural hybrid between P. daurica x P. mlokoswetschii. P. daurica is the accepted name even though it was based on a misspelling of the name 'taurica'. That's the nomenclatural 'breaks'. Depending on your understanding of peony systematics (or not) there is considerable confusion over the entire 'Mloko group' and if you consider some species as synonymous and highly variable, or strictly defined and restricted, this hybrid is either a valid name or simply part of the single species. One questions is P. mlokosewitschii ALWAYS Yellow flowering? 2) P 'Chameleon' (note spelling) introduced by Klehm 2001. This is an early blooming single rose/lavender/ pink dwarf (15 in). Although no parentage is given it looks like it may involve P. anomala. Please note chamaeleon - lower case 'c' and an internal 'ae' versus the cultivar within single quotes and an upper case 'C". I do not hesitate to suggest to all the excellent site by my friend Dr. Carsten Burkhardt which includes this section http://paeo.de/name/index.html The main site address is http://paeo.de I suggest study of this site for any peony name. Next Epigeal versus hypogeal germination of peonies. I discussed this in some detail in the above mentioned book, but there seems to no real rhyme or reason. Only three "species" of peony seem to produce cotyledons in their normal germination cycle. I use the quoites since the three are P. brownii (if you consider this a sp or subsp from the very close P. californica), P. tenuifolia and P. rockii (again is you consider this an independent species or a subspecies of P. suffrutiocsa). Since the genus is divided into 3 subgenera, it seems appropriate that the three species discussed here each belong to a separate subgenus; adding to the speculation. I leave the speculation to our other list members. Hope this helps a bit. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From honeybunny442@yahoo.com Sat Mar 3 13:36:30 2007 Message-Id: <407961.65562.qm@web56111.mail.re3.yahoo.com> From: Susan B Subject: More Gladiolus pictures Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 10:36:30 -0800 (PST) Great job Mary Sue! --------------------------------- The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sat Mar 3 13:48:47 2007 Message-Id: <000401c75dc4$9512f810$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: More Gladiolus pictures Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 13:48:48 -0500 I agree - great job, Mary Sue. I've been looking through those pictures and thinking about moving to California! I see that some of those species are small - maybe cold frame size? One can always dream. It's especially fascinating to see the variation in some species. And thanks for mentioning fragrance - that's something I always am looking for, and many people neglect it. The habitat photos are great, too. Maybe it's South Africa I want to move to, not California. In one of the photos there was a striking orange flowered composite - is that an Ursinia (or for those of you who pronounce English-style, a Ursinia)? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From dells@voicenet.com Sat Mar 3 14:53:38 2007 Message-Id: <20070303195338.A3B434C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Peony Misc, Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 14:53:05 -0500 Dear Jim, I know it is too cold in Missouri for chameleons to survive the winter. I think that they are generally difficult to keep in captivity. Have you been employing genetic engineering again? You'll go to Hell for that, you know! Dell -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James Waddick Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 12:08 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Peony Misc, Importance: Low Dear Jim et al; Just back from a few days soaking up some (horti)culture. I thought I'd throw out some 2 cent(es) on recent topics. There are 2 different Chameleons here. 1) P. x chamaeleon Troitsky 1930. his is described briefly in "The Genus Paeonia" by Halda and Waddick. It is natural hybrid between P. daurica x P. mlokoswetschii. P. daurica is the accepted name even though it was based on a misspelling of the name 'taurica'. That's the nomenclatural 'breaks'. Depending on your understanding of peony systematics (or not) there is considerable confusion over the entire 'Mloko group' and if you consider some species as synonymous and highly variable, or strictly defined and restricted, this hybrid is either a valid name or simply part of the single species. One questions is P. mlokosewitschii ALWAYS Yellow flowering? 2) P 'Chameleon' (note spelling) introduced by Klehm 2001. This is an early blooming single rose/lavender/ pink dwarf (15 in). Although no parentage is given it looks like it may involve P. anomala. Please note chamaeleon - lower case 'c' and an internal 'ae' versus the cultivar within single quotes and an upper case 'C". I do not hesitate to suggest to all the excellent site by my friend Dr. Carsten Burkhardt which includes this section http://paeo.de/name/index.html The main site address is http://paeo.de I suggest study of this site for any peony name. Next Epigeal versus hypogeal germination of peonies. I discussed this in some detail in the above mentioned book, but there seems to no real rhyme or reason. Only three "species" of peony seem to produce cotyledons in their normal germination cycle. I use the quoites since the three are P. brownii (if you consider this a sp or subsp from the very close P. californica), P. tenuifolia and P. rockii (again is you consider this an independent species or a subspecies of P. suffrutiocsa). Since the genus is divided into 3 subgenera, it seems appropriate that the three species discussed here each belong to a separate subgenus; adding to the speculation. I leave the speculation to our other list members. Hope this helps a bit. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sat Mar 3 15:07:31 2007 Message-Id: <000901c75dcf$94f97ba0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Peony Misc Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 15:07:32 -0500 OK, I can get in on this, too. Jim W. wrote: " There are 2 different Chameleons here." There are two different ones here, too: Anolis and Chamaeleon. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 where I noticed that the plants of Gelasine elongata (which I received under the name G. azurea) in the cold frame are in active growth. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sat Mar 3 16:55:47 2007 Message-Id: <000a01c75dde$b4b25f20$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Lesser celandine season is open Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 16:55:48 -0500 Feral ruderal Ranunculus ficaria has started to bloom here in Montgomery County, Maryland, The plants in my garden, which are a different clone, have not yet started to bloom, although some of them are in seemingly warmer locations. The wild plants are a form with small, comparatively ugly flowers. The large-flowered Ranunculus ficariaeformis is not yet in bloom. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where I'm wondering if Kaempferia rotunda, which spent the winter outside in the cold frame, will bloom this year. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From rherold@yahoo.com Sat Mar 3 19:50:14 2007 Message-Id: <45EA17BD.9080900@yahoo.com> From: Roy Herold Subject: Wiki Rookie Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 19:50:05 -0500 Okay, Mary Sue shamed me into learning how to add some photos to the wiki. The rest of you really should try, as it wasn't at all painful. All photos are of plants growing in the wild in South Africa. First, I added a gladiolus that MSI did NOT have, wonder of wonders. See for Gladiolus papilo, the butterfly gladiolus. I got some very wet feet taking these shots. Next, a new kniphofia for us. See for Kniphofia thodei, growing a couple of km down the road from the above. I added thumbnails for the rest of the page, too. Finally, Sandersonia auriantaca growing in the wild, still in the same region as the others but at a higher altitude. Note that they don't require staking.... Well, Mary Sue, did I pass?? --Roy NW of Boston Global freezing update: managed to chip the ice away from the cold frame today and got it open. From msittner@mcn.org Sat Mar 3 20:41:17 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20070303172111.03560098@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Rookie Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 17:27:33 -0800 Let's have a round of applause for Roy. He did a great job adding to the wiki with some really nice pictures too. I love that Kniphofia. And it's good to have some additional pictures from a different area of South Africa, also known for its wonderful flowers. It's taking such a long time to change the files to add thumbnails that it's such a boost to have people put their own pictures on the wiki. Some of you who watch the changed wiki pages will also notice that Alani Davis has added some really nice pictures and text for plants in the Ginger Family. So thanks to him as well and also to my thumbnail conversion helpers. Mary Sue >Well, Mary Sue, did I pass?? From honeybunny442@yahoo.com Sat Mar 3 20:50:06 2007 Message-Id: <895704.38178.qm@web56101.mail.re3.yahoo.com> From: Susan B Subject: Wiki Rookie Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 17:50:05 -0800 (PST) When I clicked on the links in Roy's email, I just got the Wiki pages with no description or photos. :( susan --------------------------------- Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. From lwallpe@cinci.rr.com Sat Mar 3 23:34:14 2007 Message-Id: <000c01c75e16$d99b8d10$2902a8c0@lindas> From: "Linda Wallpe" Subject: Janis Ruksans Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 23:37:43 -0500 With the same spirit as the great Victorian plant hunters, Janis Ruksans risks life and limb traveling through Central Asia searching for rare and unknown plant matter. He has lectured in the United States, Canada, England and Ireland. For his discovery of new species, introduction of same into cultivation and his successes in plant breeding, he was awarded an honorary doctorate in biology by the Latvian Academy of Sciences in 2004. His information is: Janis Ruksans Bulb Nursery Rozula, Cesis District LV-4150 Latvia E-mail: janis.bulb@hawk.lv Phone: +371 - 941-84-40, 41-00-326 Hope this is the information you wanted. Linda W. ----- Original Message ----- Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 19:52:59 +0100 From: "Agoston Janos" Subject: Re: [pbs] skunk cabbage Thank you, but I do not know Janis's e-mail address or anything about him. I just know, that he is selling top rarities of bulbs. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Grimshaw Subject: Re: [pbs] skunk cabbage Janis Ruksans is selling Symplocarpus this year, with a lovely picture of it on the cover of his catalogue................. From agoston.janos@citromail.hu Sun Mar 4 06:15:16 2007 Message-Id: <001401c75e4e$42179410$0d4afea9@gzw1jo1xwad0ctx> From: "Agoston Janos" Subject: Janis Ruksans Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 12:14:20 +0100 Thanx Linda! ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda Wallpe To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 5:37 AM Subject: [pbs] Janis Ruksans With the same spirit as the great Victorian plant hunters, Janis Ruksans risks life and limb traveling through Central Asia searching for rare and unknown plant matter. He has lectured in the United States, Canada, England and Ireland. For his discovery of new species, introduction of same into cultivation and his successes in plant breeding, he was awarded an honorary doctorate in biology by the Latvian Academy of Sciences in 2004. His information is: Janis Ruksans Bulb Nursery Rozula, Cesis District LV-4150 Latvia E-mail: janis.bulb@hawk.lv Phone: +371 - 941-84-40, 41-00-326 Hope this is the information you wanted. Linda W. ----- Original Message ----- Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 19:52:59 +0100 From: "Agoston Janos" Subject: Re: [pbs] skunk cabbage Thank you, but I do not know Janis's e-mail address or anything about him. I just know, that he is selling top rarities of bulbs. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Grimshaw Subject: Re: [pbs] skunk cabbage Janis Ruksans is selling Symplocarpus this year, with a lovely picture of it on the cover of his catalogue................. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From msittner@mcn.org Sun Mar 4 11:23:26 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20070304073112.03597f20@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: More Gladiolus Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 08:23:07 -0800 Hi, I've finished http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusThree Besides the new Gladiolus papilio that Roy Herbert added yesterday, there is a new picture of Gladiolus orchidiflorus taken in Namaqualand. This is a fragrant very intricate one that makes you appreciate beige nicely marked flowers. Jim Robinett gave me one before he died and it flowered for me once. No doubt it was not happy in my wetter winters. New species from Cameron seen in habitat are Gladiolus permeabilis, Gladiolus rudis, and Gladiolus subcaeruleus and there is another picture added of Gladiolus priorii that I think was taken in his nursery. We had it pictured already, but I really liked his picture with the blue sky and clouds behind the red flowers. Two more new habitat species added we saw in South Africa on our trip. The first is Gladiolus speciosus seen in the western Cape near Darling in September. This is another one of the Gladiolus alatus group, but is strongly marked yellow on the back. And I think in my post yesterday I mixed it up with the other one we saw that day. This is the one I think we saw in the Babiana ringens habitat. I think we saw G. meliusculus earlier in the day. The second one from our pictures is Gladiolus scullyi. This is similar to Gladiolus venustus but G. venustus is found in more southern areas of the winter rainfall area. G. scullyi is also fragrant and there are other differences although in the overlapping areas the forms are sometimes hard to tell apart. I think these I added are all G. scullyi. South African members of our group should speak up if I got them wrong so I can correct them. Since there are 163 different species (and more added all the time) in Southern Africa we are a long way from picturing them all. And I still have one more page to add some new species to. Jim, I think and this is definitely not more than a guess since South Africa has a lot of daisies and I haven't tried to figure out how they are different, that the daisy you asked about in the G. meliuculus picture might have been an Arctotis instead of Ursinia. Once again someone else can confirm. South Africa has the most amazing bulbs. I doubt you'll ever leave Maryland and your wonderful garden, but some day you might want to visit. There could be some of these Glads you could grow in your cold frame. They aren't all tall. Maybe some of the latter blooming ones would work or some from the summer rainfall areas. Mary Sue From rherold@yahoo.com Sun Mar 4 20:18:37 2007 Message-Id: <45EB6FE0.8000104@yahoo.com> From: Roy Herold Subject: More pics, some IDs needed Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 20:18:24 -0500 No more gladiolus, however. Those will come later, after Mary Sue apologizes for calling me Roy HERBERT. ;-) First, I have a sprekelia that looks different from the others. I got it from friends who got it from a collector in Maryland (not Jim McK). http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Sprekelia Next, Albuca nelsonii was added for the sake of completeness, as I don't see all that much to recommend it. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Albuca Next, I added a couple of my all-time favorite bulb pics to the Cyrtanthus page. Obliquus is a stunner... http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Cyrtanthus Finally, the first in a series of unknowns have been added to the Mystery Bulb page. Forgive me if some are not bulbs, or are ID'd on other wiki pages that I didn't take the time to peruse. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Mystery Bulbs We anxiously await the expert opinions. --Roy Global freezing update: 3F predicted for tomorrow night. Still haven't dropped below zero this winter. Yet. From msittner@mcn.org Sun Mar 4 21:33:22 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20070304181904.038ac5f8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: More pics, some IDs needed Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 18:33:04 -0800 I apologize Roy. >No more gladiolus, however. Those will come later, after Mary Sue >apologizes for calling me Roy HERBERT. ;-) Mystery bulbs: My guesses and if I'm right will I get points to make up for a quick typing/thinking error? I shouldn't make that mistake again. something blue: Geissorhiza ?, maybe heterostyla? something white: Ixia paniculata ? something yellow and red: Ixia dubia? something yellow: Wachendorfia paniculata? Anyone else? Mary Sue From maxwithers@gmail.com Mon Mar 5 12:07:06 2007 Message-Id: <45EC4E2E.7020503@gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: Gladiolus carneus Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 09:06:54 -0800 Speaking of Gladiolus, I've noticed that the "ground color" of G. carneus varies from an almost pure white though pale pink to naked lady pink (by which I mean Amaryllis belladonna pink, of course). Does anyone know if the species is just variable, or are there different clones out there? To my taste, there is no geophyte except possibly Iris that commercial plant breeding has ruined more than Gladiolus. I don't mean this in a snobbish way -- sometimes bigger really is better, but in this case not. Best, Max Oakland CA Where a single premature Erythronium californicum enlivened the shady corner near the compost pile this weekend, despite a heavy bombardment of blighted Camellia flowers. From tony@plantdelights.com Mon Mar 5 12:37:12 2007 Message-Id: <45EC5550.80603@plantdelights.com> From: Tony Avent Subject: Gladiolus carneus Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 12:37:20 -0500 Max: You bring up an interesting point about gladiolus. When I was visiting Gladiolus breeders in Holland a couple of years ago, I ask about any that might be winter hardy. The reply was that they select against winter hardiness since the worst thing in their minds was that corms could overwinter contaminating a new variety that was subsequently grown in the same field. I asked if they had ever considered breeding for hardy gladiolus and their answer was both no, and why would people want glads to be winter hardy? Can you imagine thinking about narcissus in the same bizarre terms as they do gladiolus. I'd be thrilled if someone would develop a good garden worthy group of sturdy and winter hardy glads...the species and some of the early hybrid genetics are certainly there for such a project. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent Max Withers wrote: > Speaking of Gladiolus, I've noticed that the "ground color" of G. > carneus varies from an almost pure white though pale pink to naked lady > pink (by which I mean Amaryllis belladonna pink, of course). Does anyone > know if the species is just variable, or are there different clones out > there? > > To my taste, there is no geophyte except possibly Iris that commercial > plant breeding has ruined more than Gladiolus. I don't mean this in a > snobbish way -- sometimes bigger really is better, but in this case not. > > Best, > Max > > From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Mon Mar 5 13:33:28 2007 Message-Id: <30721739.1173119607772.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: Gladiolus carneus Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 13:33:27 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >Speaking of Gladiolus, I've noticed that the "ground color" of G. >carneus varies from an almost pure white though pale pink to naked lady >pink (by which I mean Amaryllis belladonna pink, of course). Does anyone >know if the species is just variable, or are there different clones out >there? The species is highly variable in both color and flowering time. It would make a good candidate for that hardy glad project. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 7-8 From brent.hine@ubc.ca Mon Mar 5 15:14:07 2007 Message-Id: <45EC7A84.704@ubc.ca> From: "Brent A. Hine" Subject: Gladiolus carneus Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 12:16:04 -0800 Tony adds an interesting thought. I'm germinating about 17 species right now. I've been planning to grow them in open sandy ground and see which are hardy enough to overwinter on the B.C. (Canada) coast. Several should be. I see a few of the hybrids coming back locally year after year, as long as they're in well drained sites. I will select from these species and *possibly* breed them toward hardiness, flower/foliage quality/quantity, etc. Brent Hine U. of BC Botanical Garden Vancouver BC Zone 7a (last few years 8 - 9) From toadlily@olywa.net Mon Mar 5 17:43:38 2007 Message-Id: <45EC9D09.3000909@olywa.net> From: Laura & Dave Subject: Airports and Plants: An update Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 14:43:21 -0800 Well, I made it back from the NARGS meeting, with four purchased plants. I had asked the security people about bring plants through when I arrived, before the meeting. As long as the plants weren't dripping wet, there wouldn't be a problem, I was told. And I must not have been the first to ask about the effects of the x-rays, as the woman I asked assured me that the strength and duration were not enough to harm living plant tissue. When I returned, there truly were no problems, and the only question was "What is that cute plant?" (Lachenalia unicolor). The people even spread my jacket over the plants to protect them from the skirting at the entrance and exit from the machine, something I hadn't thought to do. I understand and often echo the sentiments that David Ehrlich wrote, but in this case all the plants were nursery raised. Never the less, I still will keep them isolated for a month or more, just to make sure that they are reasonably bug and disease free. Exactly where one finds a government inspector when driving from state to state (except California), I'm not sure. But I agree that they are on my side. Happy travels Dave Brastow - Tumwater, Washington -USA-, 7A From Miller7398@comcast.net Mon Mar 5 21:04:29 2007 Message-Id: <20070306020429.955274C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Joyce Miller Subject: Glads for hardiness Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 18:04:24 -0800 Dear Brent, Please keep us posted on your breeding program. I brought all my species glads with me when I moved from Sacramento, California to Gresham, Oregon. The move change was USDA 9a to 7. My glads are all in pots in the greenhouse, but the stems are so etiolated I was thinking to give them to BX. If I thought there was a way to grow them here, I would make every attempt. Best wishes, Joyce Miller, Gresham, Oregon. From msittner@mcn.org Mon Mar 5 21:24:50 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20070305180708.034b3a80@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: More Gladiolus Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 18:24:26 -0800 Hi, Here is the last page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusFour I added pictures from Cameron of another former Homoglossum, Gladiolus teretifolius . It looks quite pretty, but the Gladiolus book says most of its habitat is disappearing. It also blooms early in the rainy season meaning in places like mine the rain would probably get it. I also added pictures of a new species from Cameron, G. vaginatus. There are additional habitat pictures of Gladiolus virescens and a habitat picture of G. tristis from taken in 2003. Before I started growing bulbs seriously Gladiolus were some of my favorites. I don't seem to be able to go back however as like Max I really like the species I grow much better than the ones that have been manipulated. Mary Sue From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Mar 6 11:40:03 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Glads for hardiness Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 10:39:53 -0600 Dear all; I find Tony's remarks very enlightening and frustrating. Rather arrogant comments : ' the Dutch' "select against winter hardiness" and " why would people want glads to be winter hardy?" As a gardener who demands hardiness in as many plants as possible, I have grown all the hardiest glads I can find. I have grown all the byzantinus/ itlaicus/ communis group, Xgandavensis /dalenii and a few others (though oddly not G. palustris) and I would WELCOME a greater range of colors and forms.,, and increasaed hardiness, too. Although I disdain the big Dutch hybrids, I have grown a few and they will last a mild winter or two. I sure wouldn't use these to select for increased hardiness. And by hardiness I mean Zone 5 or 6 survival. Joyce and Brent your Zone 7 seems a no brainer for many glads or am I totally off base here? I know there are not many Zone 5 or 6 - ers on this list, but have any of them grown many from seed to test for hardiness? And Tony, you didn't say what your response was to your Dutch bulb growing guides when he made his un-Glad remarks. These remarks just drive me nuts ! Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Tue Mar 6 11:51:56 2007 Message-Id: <259F1005.86CBA87B@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Glads for hardiness Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 16:51:56 -0000 Dear Joyce: I lived in Gresham for 10 years. I had no problem with growing Gladiolus and found they returned each year. I lived on 1st St. and on Day Drive. Cheers, John E. Bryan Joyce Miller wrote: > > Dear Brent, > Please keep us posted on your breeding program. I brought > all my species glads with me when I moved from Sacramento, California > to Gresham, Oregon. The move change was USDA 9a to 7. My glads are > all in pots in the greenhouse, but the stems are so etiolated I was > thinking to give them to BX. If I thought there was a way to grow > them here, I would make every attempt. > Best wishes, Joyce Miller, Gresham, Oregon. > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From hornig@usadatanet.net Tue Mar 6 12:17:39 2007 Message-Id: <20070306121734.20668@web4.nyc1.bluetie.com> From: "Ellen Hornig" Subject: Glads for hardiness Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 12:17:34 -0500 I've had Gladiolus oppositiflorus ssp. salmoneus in the garden for at least 10 years (perched in the rock garden), and have had to dig and divide the clump a few times because of overcrowding. I also have G. saundersii, which is terribly floppy but blooms fine - just needs much leaner conditions. Like Jim Waddick, I have various old "primulinus" types, i.e. old G. dalenii farmhouse hybrids, G. "byzantinus" of southern gardens (is that really the true species?), and my little Turkish collection from Euroseeds whose name I do not yet know, but it's darling and early-blooming. In pots, I have other summer-rainfall species: G. elliottii , G. flanaganii, G. ecklonii (including a lovely unspeckeld rosy pink form from Silverhill - though I really do love the speckled ones at least as much), G. dalenii, G. permeabilis, and something received as G. ochroleucus which bloomed heavily this year and is, I think, the coastal form of G. oppositiflorus. And there are others - but that's what comes to mind from memory. I've been surprised by how well the species glads do here, in the sense that I have no trouble getting them to bloom once they're old enough (and from seed, that can be easily 4-5 years for some species). I assume it's our relatively cool summers (usually only 1-3 days over 90F) and consistently comfortable summer nights. Of course, what I really lust after are the winter-rainfall species, but with all the snow we get, not to mention our northerly latitude, winter greenhouses just don't offer enough light for anything other than cyclamen and Arum italicum. Ellen Ellen Hornig Seneca Hill Perennials 3712 County Route 57 Oswego NY 13126 USA USDA Zone 5 (w/snow cover) Phone: 315-342-5915 Fax: 315-342-5573 Website: www.senecahillperennials.com From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Tue Mar 6 12:28:39 2007 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A06B9C49B@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Glads for hardiness Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 11:28:35 -0600 Hi Jim: I had no problems getting commercial Gladiolus cultivars to return in zone 7 of southern New Mexico. Over time they would dwindle out but I am not sure it was a winter hardiness issue. In northern Illinois I have a single corm of Gladiolus byzantinus (Gladiolus communis ssp. byzantinus) that has come back for a couple of years. We have some wild collected Gladiolus taxa from Republic of Georgia but the corms (from seed) have not gotten large enough to test them outdoors. Then, of course, we have a bumper crop of chipmunks that seen to prefer bulbs of know wild origin - which is another reason they haven't gone out yet. Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel: 847-835-6841 fax: 847-835-1635 email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Mar 6 12:47:15 2007 Message-Id: <000301c76017$7c4269b0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Glads for hardiness Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 12:47:17 -0500 Those of you expressing outrage that some commercial growers keep their fields clean by deliberately growing plants not likely to survive the winter should perhaps review the history of the tulips known as thieves. Those of you who grumble about receiving mixed stocks are perhaps receiving goods from growers who don't have such scruples with respect to keeping their growing fields clean. The hardy gladiolus question has long intrigued me, too. But the focus on hardiness as such seems misplaced to me. What I would like are gladiolus which capture a broad spectrum of the morphological variety seen in the species not well represented in cultivation in plants which will be reliable summer growers in the northern hemisphere. From my perspective, the most important goal is to get them permanently switched over to the northern hemisphere summer - innate hardiness can come later and in the meantime there are simple ways of protecting winter dormant plants. As several people have already pointed out, the large hybrid glads are hardier than they are often given credit for. Many clones will survive zone 7 winters with the merest protection. That they eventually disappear might, as Boyce suggests, be due to rodent predation. But I suspect that there is another cause: the rapidly replicating corms are pushed up to the surface where they are exposed to harsher winter conditions. Awhile back we had a discussion of Gladiolus, and among the species discussed was G. tristis. I think it was Mary Sue who spoke of early flowering and late flowering forms. I was excited to hear her mention a late flowering form: I though this might be the solution to growing this species here in the garden. Unbeknownst to me, I had a plant of Gladiolus tristis in my cold frame at the time. I don't know if this corresponds to Mary Sue's early or late forms. But this plant is not the answer to my quest for a garden worthy Gladiolus tristis: it is a confirmed winter grower. Last year it revealed its identity when it bloomed in mid-April. It's beautiful and I'm happy to have it, but it's obviously not a garden plant. On the other hand, if it had turned out to be a form which began to grow in April rather than the one I have which starts to bloom in April, then I would have been able to establish it as a garden plant here. So I say the focus should be on growing season, not cold hardiness. Obviously we need both eventually, especially for those north of zone 7. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where ugly, brutal winter has returned with howling winds, bone chilling wind chill factors and frigid temperatures. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From tony@plantdelights.com Tue Mar 6 12:51:45 2007 Message-Id: <45EDAA30.8020805@plantdelights.com> From: Tony Avent Subject: Glads for hardiness Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 12:51:44 -0500 Jim: I guess I was partially in a state of shock after the comments, which were actually made both by the person in charge of the glad breeding program and a representative of one of the major auction houses. I left them with the encouragement to please consider adding a hardy glad breeding program. I guess that's to be expected when outside the box thinkers collide with inside the box thinkers. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent James Waddick wrote: > Dear all; > I find Tony's remarks very enlightening and frustrating. > > Rather arrogant comments : > > ' the Dutch' "select against winter hardiness" > > and " why would people want glads to be winter hardy?" > > As a gardener who demands hardiness in as many plants as possible, I > have grown all the hardiest glads I can find. I have grown all the > byzantinus/ itlaicus/ communis group, Xgandavensis /dalenii and a few > others (though oddly not G. palustris) and I would WELCOME a greater > range of colors and forms.,, and increasaed hardiness, too. > > Although I disdain the big Dutch hybrids, I have grown a few > and they will last a mild winter or two. I sure wouldn't use these to > select for increased hardiness. > > And by hardiness I mean Zone 5 or 6 survival. Joyce and Brent > your Zone 7 seems a no brainer for many glads or am I totally off > base here? > > I know there are not many Zone 5 or 6 - ers on this list, but > have any of them grown many from seed to test for hardiness? > > And Tony, you didn't say what your response was to your Dutch > bulb growing guides when he made his un-Glad remarks. > > These remarks just drive me nuts ! Jim W. > > From brent.hine@ubc.ca Tue Mar 6 12:51:07 2007 Message-Id: <45EDAA87.2050907@ubc.ca> From: "Brent A. Hine" Subject: Glads for hardiness Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 09:53:11 -0800 Hi James, As to hardiness of S. African glad species, I would guess that about 25-40% could be hardy long term around Vancouver; that is, at least 5 years. We get so darn much rain from November through March that it makes correct siting crucial. Until recently, we'd grown G. psittacinus for 15 years before it disappeared, as well as G. papilio - still growing strong, of course. I am looking forward to trying many more. This zone 7 with copious moisture is tricky! Brent Vancouver, BC From tony@plantdelights.com Tue Mar 6 13:01:58 2007 Message-Id: <45EDAC94.70502@plantdelights.com> From: Tony Avent Subject: Glads for hardiness Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 13:01:56 -0500 Brent: The common form of Gladiolus papilio is not the most attractive species glad, but must be one of the most hardy. A corm from our clone hitchhiked on a plant that I shared with a friend in Minnesota. The glad has rapidly spread and survived below -20F with no problems and no protection. This certainly should be a good breeding candidate. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent Brent A. Hine wrote: > Hi James, > > As to hardiness of S. African glad species, I would guess that about > 25-40% could be hardy long term around Vancouver; > that is, at least 5 years. We get so darn much rain from November > through March that it makes correct siting crucial. > Until recently, we'd grown G. psittacinus for 15 years before it > disappeared, as well as G. papilio - still > growing strong, of course. I am looking forward to trying many more. > This zone 7 with copious moisture is tricky! > > Brent > Vancouver, BC > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From dells@voicenet.com Tue Mar 6 13:15:15 2007 Message-Id: <20070306181515.634704C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Glads from Georgia Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 13:14:52 -0500 Boyce wrote: "We have some wild collected Gladiolus taxa from Republic of Georgia but the corms (from seed) have not gotten large enough to test them outdoors. Then, of course, we have a bumper crop of chipmunks that seen to prefer bulbs of know wild origin - which is another reason they haven't gone out yet." I am amazed to find out that there are Gladiolus spp native to Rep of Georgia. I don't remember your telling us about them in your presentation in Chicago on Georgian flora, but I miss a lot. I'll have to do some investigation. I am aware that some irids (romulea, e.g.) have species native to South Africa and again to the Mediterranean area. But there are no longer, I think, any romuleas in between. Georgia is a long way from South Africa. Are there any gladiolus species native to areas in between? I think this subject of bio-geography, or whatever it's called, is fascinating. It reveals hints about climate changes and continental drift. Dell, in SE PA where we are having a nasty, cold and windy day, though it is sunny. March sure did come in like a lion this year. Crocus ancyrensis, chrysanthus cvs, and some others, Eranthis hyemalis, and Galanthus elwesii are in bloom but not happy. Où sont les neiges d'antan? From adam14113@ameritech.net Tue Mar 6 13:28:47 2007 Message-Id: <001c01c7601d$20203c10$5ad8fea9@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: hardy glads and other geophytes. Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 12:27:39 -0600 Hello again: To those of you interested in developing hardier geophytes . I'd be interested in sharing seed, bulbs, bits of knowledge, technical info. and theoretical speculation ,etc. This will be my second year to see what has survived my gentle and not-so-gentle ministrations in efforts to develop some truly hardy geophytes, other than those from the genus Lilium. A slow and tedious business and not particularly suited to one of my age (83) but I do absolutely deplore the attitude conveyed in the recent quote from an unknown Dutch bulb grower cited by Tony. The Brits are a bit less self-centered, but are to some extent affected by a similar provinciality--and not just with respect to plant breeding. The combination of naivete or ignorance coupled with a lack of imagination and disinterest in consequences beyond one's own preciously overvalued first thoughts about a topic can lead either to disaster, or lack of any progress. The recipe for stagnation is simple: If one knows the world is flat, why investigate any further? Is my sentiment here shared by enough participants on this list to constitute a recurring thread, and interrest base? I know who some of you might be--but not others. Adam Fikso, in Glenview, IL ---USDA Zone 5a --running about Z 7 this year. Something like Moscow which got too warm this year and last. From dells@voicenet.com Tue Mar 6 13:38:36 2007 Message-Id: <20070306183647.B222A4C026@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: FW: Glads from Georgia Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 13:35:13 -0500 Hmmm. Maybe species names like "byzantinus" and "italicus" should have been a tip off. I still would like to know how they got there and if there are still any species in between, geographically. Dell -----Original Message----- From: Dell Sherk [mailto:dells@voicenet.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 1:15 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: RE: [pbs] Glads from Georgia Boyce wrote: "We have some wild collected Gladiolus taxa from Republic of Georgia but the corms (from seed) have not gotten large enough to test them outdoors. Then, of course, we have a bumper crop of chipmunks that seen to prefer bulbs of know wild origin - which is another reason they haven't gone out yet." I am amazed to find out that there are Gladiolus spp native to Rep of Georgia. I don't remember your telling us about them in your presentation in Chicago on Georgian flora, but I miss a lot. I'll have to do some investigation. I am aware that some irids (romulea, e.g.) have species native to South Africa and again to the Mediterranean area. But there are no longer, I think, any romuleas in between. Georgia is a long way from South Africa. Are there any gladiolus species native to areas in between? I think this subject of bio-geography, or whatever it's called, is fascinating. It reveals hints about climate changes and continental drift. Dell, in SE PA where we are having a nasty, cold and windy day, though it is sunny. March sure did come in like a lion this year. Crocus ancyrensis, chrysanthus cvs, and some others, Eranthis hyemalis, and Galanthus elwesii are in bloom but not happy. Où sont les neiges d'antan? From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Mar 6 14:32:21 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: G. papilio Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 13:32:02 -0600 >adiolus papilio is not the most attractive species >glad, but must be one of the most hardy. A corm from our clone >hitchhiked on a plant that I shared with a friend in Minnesota. The >glad has rapidly spread and survived below -20F with no problems and no >protection. This certainly should be a good breeding candidate. Dear Tony and all - I see this is NOT sold on your web site and it is one species I haven't tried, but obviously ought to do that. I Goggled a number of UK sources, but can anyone suggest a good US source for corms? Anyone else tried it and have comments on the plant or its hardiness? Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Tue Mar 6 14:33:50 2007 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A06B9C5A6@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: FW: Glads from Georgia Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 13:33:49 -0600 Hi Dell: The taxa we received are: Gladiolus kotschyanus Boiss. Four corms from the region/state of Samtskhe-Javakheti grown in the Bakuriani Alpine Botanic Garden. This is in the Lesser Caucasus, 1,800 meters elevation straddling the mountainous ridge that divides the moist western maritime from the dry eastern continental climates. Chipmunks have consumed all of these. Gladiolus tenuis M. Bieb. 428 seeds originally (fewer germinated and we only have 3 corms remaining - tissue culture is under consideration) from the state/region of Mtskheta-Mtianeti collected near Kazbegi. This is in the high mountains of the Greater Caucasus. These are currently in plug trays under the TLC of our plant propagator. Also under TLC of our propagator from Jim Shields donations we have: Gladiolus caucasicus, 318 corms Gladiolus illyricus 3 corms Gladiolus imbricatus 1 corm Gladiolus italicus ssp. bornetii 2 corms Gladiolus oppositiflorus ssp. salmoneus 2 corms Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel: 847-835-6841 fax: 847-835-1635 email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dell Sherk Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 12:35 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: [pbs] FW: Glads from Georgia Hmmm. Maybe species names like "byzantinus" and "italicus" should have been a tip off. I still would like to know how they got there and if there are still any species in between, geographically. Dell -----Original Message----- From: Dell Sherk [mailto:dells@voicenet.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 1:15 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: RE: [pbs] Glads from Georgia Boyce wrote: "We have some wild collected Gladiolus taxa from Republic of Georgia but the corms (from seed) have not gotten large enough to test them outdoors. Then, of course, we have a bumper crop of chipmunks that seen to prefer bulbs of know wild origin - which is another reason they haven't gone out yet." I am amazed to find out that there are Gladiolus spp native to Rep of Georgia. I don't remember your telling us about them in your presentation in Chicago on Georgian flora, but I miss a lot. I'll have to do some investigation. I am aware that some irids (romulea, e.g.) have species native to South Africa and again to the Mediterranean area. But there are no longer, I think, any romuleas in between. Georgia is a long way from South Africa. Are there any gladiolus species native to areas in between? I think this subject of bio-geography, or whatever it's called, is fascinating. It reveals hints about climate changes and continental drift. Dell, in SE PA where we are having a nasty, cold and windy day, though it is sunny. March sure did come in like a lion this year. Crocus ancyrensis, chrysanthus cvs, and some others, Eranthis hyemalis, and Galanthus elwesii are in bloom but not happy. Où sont les neiges d'antan? _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From proudplants@telkomsa.net Tue Mar 6 14:34:05 2007 Message-Id: <000001c76026$648d8b10$e75fef9b@ProudPlants> From: "Hendrik Strydom" Subject: new member Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 21:33:59 +0200 Hi All I'm allso new to this group and from South Africa. I am very impressed with the knowledge of the members of the PBS. I love our SA plants and grow a lot of them. My favoured bulbs are Ledeboria's Eucomus and Nerines and then the Aloes and SA succulents.Living in a very warm part of our land I don't know a cold frame and we use a greenhouse to germinate seed and to root cuttings.At the moment it is very dry and we need rain desperatly. Enjoy your gardening !!!! Hendrik Strydom proudplants@telkomsa.net -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of MLGD@aol.com Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 5:03 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] new member Hello~~~ I'm new to this group, and actually, I've never been on a "list" so I'm not sure how this works. I came across Matt Mattus's blog (I'm not sure what a blog is exactly) and was so impressed because he was growing Lachenalia and Nerines and other South African bulbs. I grow a lot of South African plants and am growing a lot of South African bulbs in a greenhouse this winter. I live in Pennsylvania. I'd love to hear about other's experiences with South African bulbs (and other South African plants as well) in these cold climates as well as in more reasonable areas for growing them (Pacific Northwest, California, Florida, etc.). Hope this is what I'm supposed to do to make contact. Thanks for any instructions you can pass on to me for how to "do lists" and "do blogs." Marilyn


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Tue Mar 6 14:37:48 2007 Message-Id: <007101c76026$ea20f280$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Gladiolus papilio Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 19:37:43 -0000 As Tony Avent says, the commonly grown form of G. papilio is not very attractive but extremely hardy and vigorous. Anyone who wishes to start a breeding programme with it can come and extract a few hundred from the rock garden at my parents' garden. I have read that the species was used in early breeding work to add purple colours to the large-flowered hybrids, and that it also conferred hardines that was bred out (wilfully or otherwise) in later generations. I was astonished by the startling white and red version of the species shown in Roy Herold's picture from the Kamsberg - now that really would be worth growing! In circulation in the UK are plants named 'Purpureo-auratus Group' - this being an invalid synonym for forms with yellow and dull red flowers. They are very distinct and much more attractive than the afore-mentioned thug. Also less vigorous, and the plant I bought a couple of years ago failed to emerge the next spring , I think more likely due to a mouse than through tenderness. (I have a picture that I would upload to the Wiki if only I could get the thing to do it! Please would some kind person let me know what the password is.) Becoming better known in the UK now is a very fine hybrid (said to have been raised in New Zealand) sold as G. papilio 'Ruby', which has velvety quite bright red flowers with darker blotches on the lower segments. It seems to be quite hardy and is an extremely useful garden plant. There is no doubt that the options from using G. papilio as a parent are vast and it would be great to see more use being made of it. In the question of the Dutchman's attitude, we have to remember that the Dutch bulb-growing community are for the most part interested only in farming bulbs - they are not plantsmen, and make no pretence to be so. They want a quick, safe return with familiar, growable items. One shudders to think at the gems that are discarded because their rate of increase is insufficient. I have to confess that much though I prefer the species, I rather like some large-flowered Gladiolus - so long as they have a nice colour. One has to think of them in different terms to the species, but they can be extremely effective in a mixed border. I had one last year called (at least on the packet) 'Mediterranee', with beautiful soft blue-mauve flowers that looked fantastic with Agastache 'Blue Fortune' and went on for months as inflorescences kept emerging. Another star was 'Emerald Spring' with wonderful green flowers, which I defy the most hard-bitten anti-Glad types to dislike. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP ----- From brent.hine@ubc.ca Tue Mar 6 14:38:25 2007 Message-Id: <45EDC3AC.5010707@ubc.ca> From: "Brent A. Hine" Subject: G. papilio Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 11:40:28 -0800 And I would ask if anyone has knowledge of other forms of G. papilio. I talked with a fellow from Seattle last year who raved about a really dark - chocolate-colored? nice markings? - one he'd seen on a trip. Brent Hine Vancouver, BC James Waddick wrote: >> adiolus papilio is not the most attractive species >> glad, but must be one of the most hardy. A corm from our clone >> hitchhiked on a plant that I shared with a friend in Minnesota. The >> glad has rapidly spread and survived below -20F with no problems and no >> protection. This certainly should be a good breeding candidate. > > Dear Tony and all - > I see this is NOT sold on your web site and it is one species > I haven't tried, but obviously ought to do that. > > I Goggled a number of UK sources, but can anyone suggest a > good US source for corms? > > Anyone else tried it and have comments on the plant or its hardiness? > > Thanks Jim W. From jshields@indy.net Tue Mar 6 14:40:40 2007 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20070306142000.00b15070@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: FW: Glads from Georgia Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 14:40:37 -0500 Dell raises a very interesting point. How different are the Eurasian glads from the African glads? Boyce, I presume the Rep. of Georgia glads look more like G. imbricatus rather than like byzantinus or italicus? I seem to vaguely recall having seen somewhere once that some cultivated glads are thought to have originated from a Eurasian species X African species cross. I believe the Eurasian glads have 2n=80, maybe? According to Goldblatt & Manning, both G. oppositiflorus salmoneus and G. saundersii have 2n=30. I have here, perfectly hardy outdoors in the ground (bar mice!), the Eurasian species GG. communis byzantinus, "caucasicus," imbricatus, illyricus, and italicus. The G. "caucasicus" looks like G. imbricatus to me, but are hardier here than Janis Ruksans' G. imbricatus. The G. imbricatus/caucasicus require chilling to germinate their seeds AND the bulbs must be chilled to get them to grow in the spring after their winter dormancy. I have G. oppositiflorus salmoneus that have survived several winters outdoors in the garden here, but that depended on the location and the soil. Not all the batches of G. o. salmoneus made it. In an unimproved clay bed, they lasted only one winter. G. x-gandavensis has lasted quite a few winters in the same bed. G. dalenii perished in a couple spots where it was tried (clay bed, raised rock garden bed). I tried crossing G. saundersii (in pots) X G. oppositiflorus salmoneus (in the ground) but did not seem to get much in the way of seeds. Maybe I should try again. Their blooms overlapped here in August last summer To cross a Eurasian species (bloom in late spring/early summer) with an African species (bloom late summer/early autumn), I'll have to get organized and store pollen. "Getting organized" can present a huge inertial barrier. Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) At 01:35 PM 3/6/2007 -0500, you wrote: >Hmmm. Maybe species names like "byzantinus" and "italicus" should have been >a tip off. > >I still would like to know how they got there and if there are still any >species in between, geographically. > >Dell ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Mar 6 14:53:18 2007 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: hardy glads and other geophytes. Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 11:53:02 -0800 Yes, count me in as being interested, Adam. Hardiness is not just for cold places. It is also for gloomy wet places as Brent mentioned. There are winter-growing bulbs that do just fine in our cold wet winters though: Arums like italicum and nigrum, Narcissus, Cyclamen. Antifreeze in their leaves? Though Arum nigrum looks as vulnerable as lettuce. I have plans to hybridize gladiolus. I am interested in unusual flower shapes and scent. I have some seedlings coming of Gladiolus callianthus x papilio (the reverse cross produced no seeds). I tried uysiae pollen I collected in South Africa this year on papilio but got no seeds. There was a talk about hybridizing gladiolus at the IBSA Symposium last September by John Pilbeam and Anthony Hamilton from the U.K. They are building on the breeding done by Tom Barnard who used tristis, carinatus and virescens. He hadn't used orchidiflorus, and Anthony thought it would help give a good blue. He has scented blues from blue carinatus x green orchidiflorus, and one of them "The Blue Orchid" was launched last year. He handed out a few cormlets but I don't know whether any of us from North America got one. He has wonderful blue and whites from further generations from Barnard's tristis x carinatus. Last fall he introduced Midnight Sun, which starts yellow and turns orange, with a purple edge. He has a red one that remains scented all day. He doesn't like ones he calls "artsy" - like watermeyeri. He has claret coloured flowers from dark blue x papilio. There are quite a few breeders of primulinus hybrids in the U.K.'s Gladiolus Society. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From adavis@ecoresource.com Tue Mar 6 15:03:17 2007 Message-Id: <001201c7602a$7aa38c20$0305a8c0@crinum> From: "Alani Davis" Subject: : Gladiolus ranges Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 15:03:15 -0500 Which African Gladiolus; they are on both ends at least. One of my early memories is vast expanses of Gladiolus byzantinus blooming, in a condition I have since presumed was wild though they could have been naturalized, in Tunisia around Tunis and Carthage. They were quite prevalent in some areas often scattered through the Roman ruins growing from cracks and crannies in the crumbling stone. I understand this is common along the north Africa Mediterranean edge, but is this only African glad north of equator or are there species through the central portion of the continent as well. I can imagine them potentially along the eastern coast possibly because of the extent of grasslands and mountains providing more suitable geography, but I am not that familiar with the species distribution in the genus. Are northern and southern Gladiolus species isolated populations or are there species across at least portions of the tropical central portions of Africa too? From tony@plantdelights.com Tue Mar 6 15:03:21 2007 Message-Id: <45EDC908.8030008@plantdelights.com> From: Tony Avent Subject: G. papilio Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 15:03:20 -0500 Jim: We got our plants of Gladiolus papilio from Niche Gardens, but have since discarded it, both because it was overly vigorous and as we say in the south, butt ugly. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent James Waddick wrote: >> adiolus papilio is not the most attractive species >> glad, but must be one of the most hardy. A corm from our clone >> hitchhiked on a plant that I shared with a friend in Minnesota. The >> glad has rapidly spread and survived below -20F with no problems and no >> protection. This certainly should be a good breeding candidate. >> > > Dear Tony and all - > I see this is NOT sold on your web site and it is one species > I haven't tried, but obviously ought to do that. > > I Goggled a number of UK sources, but can anyone suggest a > good US source for corms? > > Anyone else tried it and have comments on the plant or its hardiness? > > Thanks Jim W. > From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Mar 6 15:05:10 2007 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: FW: Glads from Georgia Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 12:04:52 -0800 Jim Shields wrote: To cross a Eurasian species (bloom in late spring/early summer) with an African species (bloom late summer/early autumn), I'll have to get organized and store pollen. ================================== The only reference I have to such a cross was a brief comment in the Pilbeam and Hamilton talk: G. atroviolaceus x carinatus (?) is very slow to propagate. Diane Whitehead From tony@plantdelights.com Tue Mar 6 15:15:06 2007 Message-Id: <45EDCBC9.4070904@plantdelights.com> From: Tony Avent Subject: Gladiolus papilio Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 15:15:05 -0500 John: You are correct about the farming aspect of many Dutch Growers. At the same growers fields, we were looking through their Oriental Lily Breeding plots and spotted a flowering plant with stunning white bordered leaves. We were told that they find 1 or 2 vareigated lilies each year, but destroy them. We asked about the fate of this lily and we were told that it could be sold at their standard price of 10,000 Euros for each clone selected, and there was no interest in such a clone. I actually thought about it for a moment before moving on. I'm reminded of the Jimmy Carter quote, "I have lusted in my heart..." Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent John Grimshaw wrote: > As Tony Avent says, the commonly grown form of G. papilio is not very > attractive but extremely hardy and vigorous. Anyone who wishes to start a > breeding programme with it can come and extract a few hundred from the rock > garden at my parents' garden. I have read that the species was used in early > breeding work to add purple colours to the large-flowered hybrids, and that > it also conferred hardines that was bred out (wilfully or otherwise) in > later generations. > > I was astonished by the startling white and red version of the species shown > in Roy Herold's picture from the Kamsberg - now that really would be worth > growing! In circulation in the UK are plants named 'Purpureo-auratus > Group' - this being an invalid synonym for forms with yellow and dull red > flowers. They are very distinct and much more attractive than the > afore-mentioned thug. Also less vigorous, and the plant I bought a couple of > years ago failed to emerge the next spring , I think more likely due to a > mouse than through tenderness. (I have a picture that I would upload to the > Wiki if only I could get the thing to do it! Please would some kind person > let me know what the password is.) > > Becoming better known in the UK now is a very fine hybrid (said to have been > raised in New Zealand) sold as G. papilio 'Ruby', which has velvety quite > bright red flowers with darker blotches on the lower segments. It seems to > be quite hardy and is an extremely useful garden plant. > > There is no doubt that the options from using G. papilio as a parent are > vast and it would be great to see more use being made of it. > > In the question of the Dutchman's attitude, we have to remember that the > Dutch bulb-growing community are for the most part interested only in > farming bulbs - they are not plantsmen, and make no pretence to be so. They > want a quick, safe return with familiar, growable items. One shudders to > think at the gems that are discarded because their rate of increase is > insufficient. > > I have to confess that much though I prefer the species, I rather like some > large-flowered Gladiolus - so long as they have a nice colour. One has to > think of them in different terms to the species, but they can be extremely > effective in a mixed border. I had one last year called (at least on the > packet) 'Mediterranee', with beautiful soft blue-mauve flowers that looked > fantastic with Agastache 'Blue Fortune' and went on for months as > inflorescences kept emerging. Another star was 'Emerald Spring' with > wonderful green flowers, which I defy the most hard-bitten anti-Glad types > to dislike. > > John Grimshaw > > Dr John M. Grimshaw > Sycamore Cottage > Colesbourne > Nr Cheltenham > Gloucestershire GL53 9NP > > > > > ----- > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Mar 6 15:26:49 2007 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: G. papilio Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 12:26:31 -0800 Tony Avent wrote: as we say in the south, butt ugly. ===================== Aw, cmon Tony. You're not into subtle? It's colours are surely as good as a lot of Arisaemas, though it does lack the elegant shape. However, I want the bright red and yellow one that I saw on a slide - whose? Was it Cameron McMaster's? Silverhill apparently sometimes has seeds of that one and I'm ready to pounce. Diane Whitehead From bonaventure@optonline.net Tue Mar 6 15:33:12 2007 Message-Id: From: bonaventure@optonline.net Subject: Gladiolus carneus Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 20:33:08 +0000 (GMT) Tony Avent wrote: Max: You bring up an interesting point about gladiolus. When I was visiting Gladiolus breeders in Holland a couple of years ago, I ask about any that might be winter hardy. The reply was that they select against winter hardiness since the worst thing in their minds was that corms could overwinter contaminating a new variety that was subsequently grown in the same field. I asked if they had ever considered breeding for hardy gladiolus and their answer was both no, and why would people want glads to be winter hardy? Can you imagine thinking about narcissus in the same bizarre terms as they do gladiolus. I'd be thrilled if someone would develop a good garden worthy group of sturdy and winter hardy glads...the species and some of the early hybrid genetics are certainly there for such a project. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 One thought comes to mind - perhaps the Dutch suppliers want to keep us in constant purchase of replacement plants every year? My own glads have survived here in zone 7 coastal New Jersey due to I think being planted very deeply in my original sandy/pebbly subsoil, over which over the years I have very thickly mulched and sheet composted, the soil/mulch/compost level being raised up over a foot or so. They're probably down 18 inches to 2 feet. Callas have survived thusly also, and Amorphophallus konjac has become somewhat weedy due to the stoloniferous clone that I have planted. Various asian Arisaemas (some very nice ones from Plant Delights, thank you) do well also, although I haven't had success with Arisaema speciosum and galateum probably due to my planting ov the rhizome (horizontal tuber in the case of these species) shallowly in the rich soil to avoid rot, which happens anyway over the winter. Bonaventure Magrys Cliffwood Beach, NJ bonaventure@optonline.net From totototo@telus.net Tue Mar 6 15:46:47 2007 Message-Id: <20070306204639.8E3ELB8MJ7@priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Glads for hardiness Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 12:46:52 -0800 One hardy gladiolus that no one has mentioned is G x colvillei 'The Bride'. Pure white w. greenish eye. I've had this in my garden for many years and it faithfully returns every year. G. "dalenii" doesn't persist, however -- to my regret, as the soft glowing yellow form is a color I have a real weakness for. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From jshields@indy.net Tue Mar 6 15:51:45 2007 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20070306153613.02721378@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: : Gladiolus ranges Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 15:51:41 -0500 Hi Alani and all, I wonder as Alani does, are there any bridging species of Gladiolus between the subsaharan lands and the Mediterranean coast of North Africa? There are lots of Gladiolus in subsaharan Africa; see Peter Goldblatt's book, "Gladiolus in Tropical Africa" (Timber Press, 1996). The tropical glads are contiguous to the Gladiolus of Southern Africa (Goldblatt and Manning, "Gladiolus of Southern Africa," Fernwood Press, 1998). A few species apparently overlap from tropical into southern. G. dalenii may be very widespread in Eastern Africa, but how far to the north is it found naturally? The North African glads are probably part of the Mediterranean complex, with illyricus and italicus. I might guess that the distribution of byzantinus in North Africa is due to the Romans and other Mediterranean conquerors and traders, but I don't really know. Has anyone done a careful study of the Mediterranean/Eurasian species vis a vis the southern African species? Jim Shields At 03:03 PM 3/6/2007 -0500, Alani Davis wrote: >Which African Gladiolus; they are on both ends at least. One of my early >memories is vast expanses of Gladiolus byzantinus blooming, in a condition I >have since presumed was wild though they could have been naturalized, in >Tunisia around Tunis and Carthage. They were quite prevalent in some areas >often scattered through the Roman ruins growing from cracks and crannies in >the crumbling stone. I understand this is common along the north Africa >Mediterranean edge, but is this only African glad north of equator or are >there species through the central portion of the continent as well. I can >imagine them potentially along the eastern coast possibly because of the >extent of grasslands and mountains providing more suitable geography, but I >am not that familiar with the species distribution in the genus. Are >northern and southern Gladiolus species isolated populations or are there >species across at least portions of the tropical central portions of Africa >too? ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Tue Mar 6 17:27:05 2007 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A06B9C74D@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: FW: Glads from Georgia Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 16:27:06 -0600 Hi Jim: We haven't seen them in flower yet. I've got a trip back to Republic of Georgia this year. I'll see if I can collect some images of the wild populations, etc. Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel: 847-835-6841 fax: 847-835-1635 email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org From leo@possi.org Tue Mar 6 18:56:12 2007 Message-Id: <35798.209.180.132.162.1173225370.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Babiana sinuata Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 16:56:10 -0700 (MST) If I can find the time and figure out how I will upload photos of Babiana sinuata, absent from the Wiki. This is the third year blooming for one of my seedlings and it gets bigger and better every year. (Bigger is a relative term - the flowers are not much larger than an inch/2.5cm but fascinating.) The seed came from Silverhill. I really like the plant. The fragrance is outstanding. It has also taught me that its bulbs need to be potted upright. Most of my other bulb sprouts figure out which way is up, but this one grows out of the pot at the same angle as I placed it. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From leo@possi.org Tue Mar 6 18:56:45 2007 Message-Id: <35805.209.180.132.162.1173225404.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Rainy climates, winter growers Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 16:56:44 -0700 (MST) > It also blooms early in the rainy season > meaning in places like mine the rain would probably get it. I don't exactly have this problem, but what about growing winter growers under an open-sided roof of polycarbonate greenhouse material to keep off excess rain? It does cost something but it would lead to many further plant possibilities. I am planning on doing this to protect some of my plants from our summer rains. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From garden@tiscali.co.uk Tue Mar 6 20:52:26 2007 Message-Id: From: Graham Rice Subject: skunk cabbage Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 20:37:48 -0500 Following up on the earlier exchanges, I just came across this: Symplocarpus nipponicus. http://www.jasaeng.or.kr/cybertour_yasaeng_contents.asp?id=8800 Anyone grow it? How hardy is it? Graham Rice Milford, PA 5F and a fierce wind tonight -- Take a look at Transatlantic Plantsman, my new blog on plants and books about plants at http://www.transatlanticplantsman.com From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Wed Mar 7 01:11:50 2007 Message-Id: <001c01c7607a$972c06b0$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: skunk cabbage Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 05:36:43 -0000 I have seen Symplocarpus renifolius from mainland Asia (Korea, Manchuria) doing well in a Belgian garden, so it would be probable that S. nipponicus would be growable. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Rice" > Following up on the earlier exchanges, I just came across this: > Symplocarpus nipponicus. > http://www.jasaeng.or.kr/cybertour_yasaeng_contents.asp?id=8800 > > Anyone grow it? How hardy is it? > > From jukp@aha.ru Wed Mar 7 03:20:52 2007 Message-Id: <008201c76091$82a2f2f0$f86c0b0a@user> From: "Yuri Pirogov" Subject: FW: Glads from Georgia Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 10:27:47 +0300 Hi All, My garden is near Moscow, Russia in USDA zone 3-4 I grow for years three species of hardy glads: G. segetum http://irisgarden.net/photo/g_segetum.jpg G. imbricatus http://irisgarden.net/photo/g_imbricatus.jpg G. tenius http://irisgarden.net/photo/g_tenius.jpg Last one was collected in Armenia, not far from Georgia. It almost became a weed in my garden with its bulblets forming in abundance every year. Modern Flora of Armenia indicates 9 species of Gladiolus: G.G. dzhavakheticus, szovitsii, italicus, atroviolaceus, caucasicus, hajastanicus, kotschianus, menitzkyi, tenius By the way G. atroviolaceus has 2n=90 Yuri Pirogov in Moscow > > Boyce, I presume the Rep. of Georgia glads look more like G. imbricatus > rather than like byzantinus or italicus? > > I seem to vaguely recall having seen somewhere once that some cultivated > glads are thought to have originated from a Eurasian species X African > species cross. I believe the Eurasian glads have 2n=80, maybe? According > to Goldblatt & Manning, both G. oppositiflorus salmoneus and G. > saundersii > have 2n=30. > > I have here, perfectly hardy outdoors in the ground (bar mice!), the > Eurasian species GG. communis byzantinus, "caucasicus," imbricatus, > illyricus, and italicus. The G. "caucasicus" looks like G. imbricatus to > me, but are hardier here than Janis Ruksans' G. imbricatus. > > The G. imbricatus/caucasicus require chilling to germinate their seeds AND > the bulbs must be chilled to get them to grow in the spring after their > winter dormancy. > From ron_redding@hotmail.com Wed Mar 7 03:56:05 2007 Message-Id: From: "Ronald Redding" Subject: Scadoxus puniceus alba Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 18:56:03 +1000 Doug Thanks for the info all is well here I hope live is treating you well. Kind Regards and Best Wishes Ron Redding Hervey Bay Australia >From: Doug Westfall >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: IBS member ,PBS members > >Subject: [pbs] Scadoxus puniceus alba >Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 20:20:04 -0800 > >To those who acquired Scadoxus puniceus alba Last year, I have had four >of the seedlings bloom this year. Three of them are white, and the >fourth is a light apricot in color. > >Remember that I reminded everyone that seedlings have a great potential >for variety in their "gene pool." > >Good luck, and let me know how yours have turned out. > >Doug > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _________________________________________________________________ Join the millions of Australians using Live Search. Try live.com.au http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=740&referral=million&URL=http://live.com.au From christopherwhitehouse@rhs.org.uk Wed Mar 7 08:08:22 2007 Message-Id: <03C1FD2D3BA79B48A8DB619A68FAD07609F0BB@vsmail.rhs.net> From: "CHRISTOPHERW" Subject: Glads for hardiness Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 13:08:21 -0000 I have one of the orange-yellow flowered clones of G. dalenii that I purchased from the Kirstenbosch plant centre while living in South Africa. It flowered for me regularly around March in the Cape, however, upon returning to England it has so far eluded my best efforts. The first year I planted them out once the risk of frost was past but they had not flowered prior to be lifted again in October - I put this down to their acclimatising to the change in hemisphere. The second year I planted them out as early as I could but by November there were still no signs of flowers, at which point there was a sudden sharp frost of around -10oC, which caught me out badly with many of my plants. The foliage, and I presumed the bulbs, were finished, so I did not bother to dig them up but left them in the ground to see if they would return of their own accord. Sure enough the following spring they did full of vigour. This year the weather was kinder and by the first weeks of November, large flower spikes were beginning to appear. The glow of orange was on the buds, when at the beginning of December we had our first frost, not particularly hard as the foliage appeared unaffected, but it was enough to kill off all the flower spikes. Clearly although the bulbs are hardy enough, the growing season is not long enough (despite having an exceptionally hot summer last year) or more likely, as the plants were certainly big enough by the end of August, the flowering is triggered by the shortness of the day length. It is interesting to see Tony's Gladiolus dalenii 'Halloweenie', which is similar in coloration to my clone and from what he says in his catalogue is also a late flowerer (not sure I agree with the description of tacky - one needs bright and cheerful at that time of year in this country). It would be interesting to know how often the flower spikes are lost before they emerge, possibly the growing season is just long enough for him. One of the remarkable aspects of the Dutch hybrids, most of which have a good amount of G. dalenii in their parentage, is that they can grow and flower so quickly from an April planting, therefore appear to be unaffected by daylength. It is clearly not just hardiness that we need in new hybrids - see Jim's comments about making them suitable for northern hemisphere growing seasons. This year, I will try some in pots to bring into the greenhouse to protect those flowerbuds from the frosts. Christopher Whitehouse Home: Cranleigh,Surrey,England,Zone 8 Dr Christopher Whitehouse Keeper of the Herbarium RHS Garden Wisley WOKING Surrey GU23 6QB Tel: 01483 224234 Fax: 01483 211750 The contents of this email and any files transmitted with it are confidential, proprietary and may be legally privileged. They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender. If you are not the intended recipient you may not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this email. The sender is not responsible for any changes made to any part of this email after transmission. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Society. Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free from any virus or other defects which might affect any computer or IT system into which they are received, no responsibility is accepted by the Society or any of its associated companies for any loss or damage arising in any way from the receipt or use thereof. An interest in gardening is all you need to enjoy being a member of the RHS. For more information please visit http://www.rhs.org.uk From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Mar 7 09:19:27 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: skunk cabbage Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:18:53 -0600 Dear Friends; The three species of Symplocarpus are all fairly infrequent in gardens, but all are 'growable'. They tend to be over looked in favor of the two species in the closely related genus, Lysichiton which have somewhat similar foliage and much showier flowers. Unfortunately they are all known as 'Skunk Cabbage'. They have somewhat similar growing requirements and do best at the edge of a pond or in the midst of spring streams. They can tolerate drier summers when they may go dormant. Only the American S. foetidus is common in cultivation, but both Lysichiton are seen more frequently. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Wed Mar 7 09:27:32 2007 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: skunk cabbage Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 09:27:30 -0500 And no one has mentioned the hybrid between the two Lysichiton species, which is less common but certainly not less desirable! Russell At 09:18 AM 3/7/2007, Jim Waddick wrote: >Dear Friends; > Only the American S. foetidus is common in cultivation, but >both Lysichiton are seen more frequently. Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Mar 7 09:47:38 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Skunk Cabbages Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:47:29 -0600 And no one has mentioned the hybrid between the two Lysichiton species, which is less common but certainly not less desirable! Dear Russell; This hybrid has occurred various times and is usually sold (when available) just as an un-named hybrid, but at least one named form 'Devonshire Cream' is available in England. There's a nice picture of this hybrid in the Lysichiton entry in the new "AHS/RHS Encyclopedia of Perennials". ( I coincidentally authored this entry, ahem!) I think it is hard to beat either of the species. The Asian species has pure white flowers while the American has brilliant yellow flowers. Hybrids tend to water down both, but some prefer the cream/ pale yellow color, too. And some folks NEED all three. best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Wed Mar 7 10:04:51 2007 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Skunk Cabbages Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:04:46 -0500 You can definitely include me in the "needing all three" camp. I believe you mentioned that Lysichiton grows well in the middle of streams, Jim. My admittedly limited observations have led me to wonder whether it favors stagnant water. Any comments? Russell Jim Waddick wrote: And some folks NEED all three. Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 From agoston.janos@citromail.hu Wed Mar 7 10:33:57 2007 Message-Id: <006e01c760cd$e4028100$0d4afea9@gzw1jo1xwad0ctx> From: "Agoston Janos" Subject: Skunk Cabbages Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 16:33:00 +0100 No it dislikes stagnant water. It was discussed in the AROIDS-L. Well as a real collector please add me to the "needing all six" (3 Lisichiton and 3 Symplocarpus) :) There are no overcrowded gardens, where a new plant cannot be fitted. Bye, Jani, Z5a Hungary ----- Original Message ----- From: Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Skunk Cabbages You can definitely include me in the "needing all three" camp. I believe you mentioned that Lysichiton grows well in the middle of streams, Jim. My admittedly limited observations have led me to wonder whether it favors stagnant water. Any comments? Russell Jim Waddick wrote: And some folks NEED all three. Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Wed Mar 7 10:40:58 2007 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Skunk Cabbages Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:40:56 -0500 Then I will try it beside a stream again. Hope springs eternal.... I don't suppose any of the symplocarpus hybridize..... Russell At 10:33 AM 3/7/2007, you wrote: >No it dislikes stagnant water. It was discussed in the AROIDS-L. > >Well as a real collector please add me to the "needing all six" (3 >Lisichiton and 3 Symplocarpus) :) Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 From maxwithers@gmail.com Wed Mar 7 13:18:46 2007 Message-Id: <45EF0203.9030207@gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: Glads for hardiness Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:18:43 -0800 I am one of those self-centered provincials uninterested in hardiness. In (my part of) California we are more likely to have problems with insufficient chill than too much of it, and some people find the fixation on cold-hardiness a little... provincial. However, I am a believer in a kind of hybridizing karma, and I wish everyone the traits they desire. For me these are not only petals of reasonable size that don't flop around like dirty dishrags, but also some kind of limitation on the number of flowers per spike, so that they could bloom at the same time. This discussion inspired me to spend some quality time with the Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs (not that I need much of an excuse), and I see that 8-9 flowers on a spike is not uncommon in the cape species. So it is unfair of me to attribute this flaw to the hybridizers. Though I can still blame them for devoting their energy to exaggerating it it. Best, Max Oakland CA From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Mar 7 14:00:57 2007 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Glads for hardiness Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 11:00:38 -0800 Max Withers wrote: In (my part of) California we are more likely to have problems with insufficient chill than too much of it, ================= Max, you have reminded me of something I read about some bulbs (?) that grow in the SE U.S. I didn't pay much attention because it had no relevance to me, so I can't remember which plant it was. Apparently some plants native to Florida have the ability to withstand excessive cold. Some of the South African bulbs, including gladiolus, that were in bloom at the beginning of September when I was there, have an amazing ability to withstand great swings of temperature. We had snow on a couple of days. In one area, the temperature was minus 8 Celsius at night and plus 20 Celsius the next day. (that's 19 to 68 Fahrenheit). It certainly wasn't dry in the winter. There were large areas under water, and we had to ford many streams running across the roads - I was afraid the car might not like getting its engine wet, but it never stalled. I think these bulbs have great potential for adaptability, though maybe they won't like my boring coastal conditions - the other day we had a high of 7 C and a low of 7 C. Where's the fun in that when you're built to withstand high desert conditions? Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From dells@voicenet.com Wed Mar 7 14:16:43 2007 Message-Id: <20070307191643.3698B4C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Glads for hardiness Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 14:16:06 -0500 OK, Max, and you probably have to weed out the paramongaias and tecophilaeas that are taking over your yard. Quel dommage! ;<{o))) Dell, in snowy, cold SE PA, where I'd give a kidney to be able to grow Amaryllis belladonna! _______________________________________________ From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Wed Mar 7 14:46:15 2007 Message-Id: <259F1F74.388994E9@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Dutch Growers. Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:46:15 -0000 With interest I read various postings seemingly chastising All Dutch bulb growers for not breeding hardiness into Gladiolus. Just who heard this statement and from which bulb grower was not mentioned, at least to my knowledge. Over the years, thanks to the experiments and research made at such places as Wageningen, our knowledge and understanding has benefited. Has such been forgotten as adverse comments are posted? To tar the Netherlands Bulb Industry based on a remark apparently heard, with the same brush, I think is unjustified. Those in business must protect their business, or else they would soon be out of business. Firms such as Dix, Hoog, to mention just two, make available to lovers of bulbs, species, varieties and selections which contribute to many collections. I do not imply all Dutch Growers are saints, and certainly it is easy to find fault, but are American Growers without fault? I think not. I feel castigating the Dutch Bulb industry, as has apparently is/has taken place, ignores the many contributions made, and knowledge distributed. Thanks to them, thousands of gardeners grow bulbs, and if they do, many will seek out species other than the "ordinary". Above all lets be fair and give credit where due. Cheers, John E. Bryan From totototo@telus.net Wed Mar 7 16:44:37 2007 Message-Id: <20070307214436.C41BSHQM7J@priv-edtnaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Skunk Cabbages Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 13:44:39 -0800 On 7 Mar 07, at 10:04, Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs wrote: > I believe you mentioned that Lysichiton grows well in the middle of > streams, Jim. My admittedly limited observations have led me to > wonder whether it favors stagnant water. Any comments? I've seen L. americanum growing in two situations: smallish streams that probably have some flow all summer long, and low areas that flood in winter but dry out in summer. The latter, however, probably have moisture deep down and don't go bone dry like a rocky hillside would. Neither what you would call stagnant. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Mar 7 17:21:24 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Skunk Cabbages and an alternate Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 16:20:56 -0600 > My admittedly limited observations have led me to wonder whether >it favors stagnant water. Any comments? Dear Russell and all; I have to limit myself to seeing plants growing in the wild. I sort of hate to say In the middle of a stream although I sort of already did. I have seen both the American species in the middle of running water in spring, but I have seen the Eastern Symplocarpus in wet boggy spots and in fairly still pond edge sites. I don't think they'd do well in say a garden pond, but I have seen plenty of pix of the Asian Lysichiton next to ponds or rice paddies. Some of these spots may just flood in spring and then run off and dry in summer. I can't say I have had much luck growing any of them here where not are native or where the climate is drastically different. I would like to add a word in favor of the 'quiet' relative Calla palustris. This is smaller and has less showy flowers than Lysichiton, but showier than Symplocarpus and it definitely does well in still water. I've grown it in a wet tub. This isn't seen much in gardens or ponds, but I think it is easier and more tolerant of garden conditions. I have never heard it called a skunk cabbage and the foliage does not have a foul odor, but has attractive shiny and heart shaped leaves and clear white 'calla' flowers. I just Googled a source and was surprised to find that it is available from Wim. Tricker Inc. This is a very old water plant business and glad to see it still exists. http://www.trickeri.com/cgi-bin/51/cp-app.cgi Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From garden@tiscali.co.uk Wed Mar 7 17:54:09 2007 Message-Id: From: Graham Rice Subject: Skunk Cabbages and an alternate Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 17:53:16 -0500 We have wild Symplocarpus foetidus, with a surprising range of color patterns on the spathes, growing in wet soil alongside a small stream here in PA - up to about 25-30ft from the usual watercourse. The area is occasionally flooded for a day or two but plants do not grow in the usual line of the the stream itself, except on tussocks or rooty areas which accumulate humus and raise the plants above the usual water level. The roots of this plant, by the way, are a favorite food for our black bears as they emerge from hibernation in spring. I presume that the smell guides them to the starchy roots. We often find excavations... John mentioned a fine clump at Kew... if he means the one that used to be near a waterfall towards the south end of the rock garden - I remember dividing that clump when I worked there in about 1974! The rock garden is very different now but I hope to be able to get to Kew during my forthcoming English trip so will try to check if that clump is still there. I even have an old slide of it - somewhere... Graham Rice http://www.transatlanticplantsman.com > > My admittedly limited observations have led me to wonder whether >>it favors stagnant water. Any comments? > >Dear Russell and all; > I have to limit myself to seeing plants growing in the wild. >I sort of hate to say In the middle of a stream although I sort of >already did. > I have seen both the American species in the middle of >running water in spring, but I have seen the Eastern Symplocarpus in >wet boggy spots and in fairly still pond edge sites. I don't think >they'd do well in say a garden pond, but I have seen plenty of pix of >the Asian Lysichiton next to ponds or rice paddies. Some of these >spots may just flood in spring and then run off and dry in summer. > > I can't say I have had much luck growing any of them here >where not are native or where the climate is drastically different. > > I would like to add a word in favor of the 'quiet' relative >Calla palustris. This is smaller and has less showy flowers than >Lysichiton, but showier than Symplocarpus and it definitely does >well in still water. I've grown it in a wet tub. This isn't seen much >in gardens or ponds, but I think it is easier and more tolerant of >garden conditions. > > I have never heard it called a skunk cabbage and the foliage >does not have a foul odor, but has attractive shiny and heart shaped >leaves and clear white 'calla' flowers. I just Googled a source and >was surprised to find that it is available from Wim. Tricker Inc. >This is a very old water plant business and glad to see it still >exists. http://www.trickeri.com/cgi-bin/51/cp-app.cgi > > Best Jim W. >-- >Dr. James W. Waddick >8871 NW Brostrom Rd. >Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 >USA >Ph. 816-746-1949 >Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Wed Mar 7 19:18:57 2007 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Calla palustris Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 18:59:16 -0500 A second to Jim's plug for Calla palustris. A colony of it grows not far from my house -- in what once were the gardens of a circa 1900 estate. I've always assumed they were introduced, although it also is native. However it originated, it's a very pleasing sight. Russell Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Wed Mar 7 19:18:59 2007 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Calla palustris Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:14:55 -0500 A second to Jim's plug for Calla palustris. A colony of it grows not far from my house -- in what once were the gardens of a circa 1900 estate. I've always assumed they were introduced, although it also is native. However it originated, it's a very pleasing sight. Russell Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed Mar 7 20:18:41 2007 Message-Id: <000001c7611f$b7b08d70$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Calla palustris Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 20:18:44 -0500 I'll join the chorus for Calla palustris; but since I'm about to sing off key, you'll probably want to kick me out! Yes, it's a beguiling little plant, and I would be very happy to have it established in my garden. However, I've tried it twice over the years, and it has never survived more than two summers. In wet boggy ground it disappeared during the summer; in water it simply dissolved. I think both accessions came from far northern populations, and that might explain the problems I had. I'll be glad to hear from anyone who knows of a source of plants from near the southern limits of their distribution. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 where nasty winter weather is back upon us. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From eagle85@flash.net Wed Mar 7 20:38:38 2007 Message-Id: <9ECEA968-CD15-11DB-A6A2-00050277B6E6@flash.net> From: Doug Westfall Subject: Scadoxus puniceus alba Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 17:37:47 -0800 On Wednesday, March 7, 2007, at 12:56 AM, Ronald Redding wrote: > Thanks for the info all is well here I hope live is treating you well. > > Kind Regards and Best Wishes > Ron Redding Thanks, all is well here. I do not know when the bloom season is for you, but let me know when you have a bloom. Regards, Doug From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Thu Mar 8 00:33:51 2007 Message-Id: <7D383C61-FCE4-40D8-B273-DBD20B960CDD@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Importing seeds - best experience so far Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 21:33:54 -0800 Over the years I've gotten seeds from overseas from various countries. In the "old days" they were addressed to me and came directly to me every time, no problems. After a phyto suddenly became required, only a very very very few sources could or would go through the steps to do it properly. Most places and people, even reputable longtime sources of seeds ignored the new requirements at that time, and I never had any package confiscated. Ever since the new small lots of seeds permits came into effect (no longer requiring a phyto), I've basically had two different kinds of experiences so far. Either the sender pasted the required import permit label on the outside of the envelope or package AND wrote my address on the outside (which the label instructions specifically state should NOT be done), in which case the packages came directly to me and were never stopped or inspected, Or the sender pasted the label on the outside of the package and did NOT write my address on the outside of the package, in which case the packages (in my case) all were delivered directly to the APHIS/PPQ inspection station near the LAX airport. In every case I've gotten a phone call from them telling me the seeds were cleared for release and I could come pick them up between 8 am and 4:30pm Monday through Friday only and not between noon and 1:00 pm either after driving directly across most of Los Angeles and then trying to drive back, during work and hoping not to hit traffic somewhere. Or I could give them a FedEx charge number or I could send them actual postage stamps for the correct domestic postage to get it mailed across town. No cash and no credit cards could be accepted. I usually had a friend who lives nearby go and pick them up and I could pick them up from my friend later in the evening after the traffic had dissipated. I believe that the reason the label specifies that the final destination address NOT be placed on the outside of the package was precisely because of what usually happens which is what I described that happened to me. Which means incoming packages never get intercepted to be inspected. However, today I received a package of seeds from Australia that had the label pasted on the outside AND my address written on the outside as well. This time, however, it went to the inspection station, they inspected it and then taped it up and sent it directly on to me without any phone call and without any additional postage. This is the first time this has happened to me in more than ten years of importing seeds from outside the U.S. The sender had drawn a box around my address, drew some arrows pointing to it, and had written above the top of the rectangle surrounding my address: "Permit Holder & Final Address". I believe that every nation that has joined the International Postal Union (pretty much almost every country in the world ) is required to follow a standard set of rules, one of which is that the postage charged for an international package or letter covers delivery of that item to the final destination written on the outside of the item. I believe this has been a point of disagreement with the USPS and APHIS/PPQ and is why the local inspection office had to ask me for additional postage or a FedEx charge number to deliver packages to me when the sender did NOT write my address on the outside of the package. This would be great if they continue this practice. Furthermore, the sender had included a cover sheet inside the package that stated that the seeds were fleshy and could possibly germinate during delivery despite having been kept dry and dark the entire time. A few of the seeds HAD germinated en route, but nothing was confiscated and the sheet had been opened and read. So that is good too. So if this way of doing it continues, I think all of the concerns of each of the parties will be satisfied. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA, USDA Zone 10a From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Mar 8 10:20:49 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Ungernia - My annual lament Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 08:42:40 -0600 Dear Friends; It seems at least once a year, I make a call for help in regard to Ungernia. I have two bulbs in the garden just coming up - both strong new growth and so far at least one has doubled. Both are in the garden for 5 years or more, but never a bloom I am always open for any source for bulbs or seeds of any species. Do any of you have contacts in any of the Central Asian 'Stan' countries - Uzbekistan, Tadjistan, Afghanistan, etc.? Same for Iran and others. Although I constantly humbug my climate's limitations, I do believe it approximates the Central Asian harshness where these plants originate. So far they are at least thriving, more than existing and much better than dead. I appreciate any wild goose chase leads anyone can suggest to locate a bulb or two of any species in the genus. Thanks for any help. best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From xerics@cox.net Thu Mar 8 11:03:34 2007 Message-Id: <015a01c7619b$49b0d7e0$0ef8b546@richard> From: "Richard" Subject: Importing seeds - best experience so far Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 08:03:18 -0800 This seed import program is still a mess. The instructions say that it is illegal to put the final destination address on the outside of the parcel. My last attempt went the "legal" way. I got a call from the LAX station two weeks ago and responded with my FedX number and a contact phone number. I never got the seeds and I never heard from them again. I give up! Government 1, People 0. I thought of getting Congress involved in these issues but we are a tiny minority with zero clout. Now, if I were Monsanto, or ADM, I could really threaten the environment by spreading GM seed strains with complete impunity. Richard Wagner Vista, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Poulsen" To: "PBS Society" Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 9:33 PM Subject: [pbs] Importing seeds - best experience so far > Over the years I've gotten seeds from overseas from various > countries. In the "old days" they were addressed to me and came > directly to me every time, no problems. After a phyto suddenly became > required, only a very very very few sources could or would go through > the steps to do it properly. Most places and people, even reputable > longtime sources of seeds ignored the new requirements at that time, > and I never had any package confiscated. Ever since the new small > lots of seeds permits came into effect (no longer requiring a phyto), > I've basically had two different kinds of experiences so far. > > Either the sender pasted the required import permit label on the > outside of the envelope or package AND wrote my address on the > outside (which the label instructions specifically state should NOT > be done), in which case the packages came directly to me and were > never stopped or inspected, > Or the sender pasted the label on the outside of the package and did > NOT write my address on the outside of the package, in which case the > packages (in my case) all were delivered directly to the APHIS/PPQ > inspection station near the LAX airport. In every case I've gotten a > phone call from them telling me the seeds were cleared for release > and I could come pick them up between 8 am and 4:30pm Monday through > Friday only and not between noon and 1:00 pm either after driving > directly across most of Los Angeles and then trying to drive back, > during work and hoping not to hit traffic somewhere. Or I could give > them a FedEx charge number or I could send them actual postage stamps > for the correct domestic postage to get it mailed across town. No > cash and no credit cards could be accepted. I usually had a friend > who lives nearby go and pick them up and I could pick them up from my > friend later in the evening after the traffic had dissipated. I > believe that the reason the label specifies that the final > destination address NOT be placed on the outside of the package was > precisely because of what usually happens which is what I described > that happened to me. Which means incoming packages never get > intercepted to be inspected. > > However, today I received a package of seeds from Australia that had > the label pasted on the outside AND my address written on the outside > as well. This time, however, it went to the inspection station, they > inspected it and then taped it up and sent it directly on to me > without any phone call and without any additional postage. This is > the first time this has happened to me in more than ten years of > importing seeds from outside the U.S. The sender had drawn a box > around my address, drew some arrows pointing to it, and had written > above the top of the rectangle surrounding my address: "Permit Holder > & Final Address". I believe that every nation that has joined the > International Postal Union (pretty much almost every country in the > world ) is > required to follow a standard set of rules, one of which is that the > postage charged for an international package or letter covers > delivery of that item to the final destination written on the outside > of the item. I believe this has been a point of disagreement with the > USPS and APHIS/PPQ and is why the local inspection office had to ask > me for additional postage or a FedEx charge number to deliver > packages to me when the sender did NOT write my address on the > outside of the package. This would be great if they continue this > practice. > > Furthermore, the sender had included a cover sheet inside the package > that stated that the seeds were fleshy and could possibly germinate > during delivery despite having been kept dry and dark the entire > time. A few of the seeds HAD germinated en route, but nothing was > confiscated and the sheet had been opened and read. So that is good too. > > So if this way of doing it continues, I think all of the concerns of > each of the parties will be satisfied. > > --Lee Poulsen > Pasadena, California, USA, USDA Zone 10a > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From donhackenberry@acsworld.com Thu Mar 8 11:14:17 2007 Message-Id: <000901c7619c$ff28b9c0$10584845@oemcomputer> From: "Don Hackenberry" Subject: Ungernia, my lifelong quest Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 11:15:30 -0500 Dear Jim, Your climate is much better suited to Ungernia than mine. I'm not going to recite my trials and failures, I'm going to bury them. You've got live plants! That's more than I had for any length of time. My suggestion is come visit me and I'll take you over to see Norman Deno's front yard. Replicate that in KC and it just might provide that extra 1 or 2% of severity and austerity to put them over the top and persuade them to flower. After all, Nemastylis flowers there. Is Ungernia the greatest flower on earth? No, but almost nobody ever heard of it, and that's good reason for yours truly to want it real bad. A delicious moment was back in the late 70s when the (no N then) ARGS Winter Study Weekend was in Newark, at the hotel across the street from the train station. I asked Brian Mathew if he knew of anyone growing Ungernia, and he thought I meant Urginea. I think he looked it up when he got back home again. I'm going to mail you the secret password. Best, Don From msittner@mcn.org Thu Mar 8 12:05:49 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20070308082142.035bf0e8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Gladiolus and more Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 09:04:59 -0800 Hi, Before we get off Gladiolus I want to respond to a couple of messages I haven't had time to respond to before. Sorry to put them all in one message, but I'll never get this written if I split it into four or five. First welcome to the new members from South Africa and Russia and thanks for posting. South Africa has so many great bulbs that we are always happy to have list members with first hand experience. And it was so interesting seeing those very hardy Gladiolus pictures of Yuri's and learning about all those species unknown to most of us from Armenia. The three pictures show a lot of similarity. Are most of the Gladiolus from Armenia pink? Gladiolus tenius sounds like the answer to some of you who are craving hardy bulbs so it is good Boyce has it. For Alani's question about where they are found I quote from Goldblatt and Manning, Gladiolus in Southern Africa: " the geographic range of Gladiolus is Africa, Madagascar, Europe and the Middle East. Approximately ten of the 255 species in the genus occur north of the Sahara in Eurasia as far east as Afghanistan, and another eight occur in Madagascar. There are some 85 species in tropical Africa... In southern Africa... we now recognize 163 species ." This last area is mostly south of the Tropic of Capricorn they write. Continuing: "Species mostly have fairly narrow ranges and few occur in more than one of these main regions." Then they name a few that are both in tropical and southern tropical Africa. Gladiolus dalenii is one of them suggesting that the original source might make a difference in its hardiness. Although they don't talk of species in central Africa, when I was doing the thumbnails for Gladiolus and trying to decide how to split them up there was one on the wiki that was in that area with a photo supplied by John Grimshaw, Gladiolus watsonioides: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MiscellaneousGladiolus#watsonioides Perhaps it's a candidate to be included in the hardiness test group. As for Jim McKenney's comments about the late blooming Gladiolus tristis, it isn't dormant in winter. The leaves come up when the regular G. tristis leaves come up in the fall. It just doesn't bloom until many months later. He should be looking at Gladiolus from summer rainfall areas that are dormant in winter like some of the ones Ellen mentioned. As for rodent predation Don Mahoney told me the squirrels had gotten most of his winter growing South African Gladiolus. He lives in the Bay Area in California. Leo wondered about growing things under cover for those of us with wet winters. I do that. I have an area my husband built for me that has a cover over the benches and is open on the sides. I'm still not sure about how much this helps. The wind blows the rain in and you still have the conditions that lead to disease like the humidity. The leaves don't remain dry. In fact I've noticed that some Veltheimia capensis I planted out looks better than some sheltered. And if there isn't enough light the flowers that bloom lean. My Gladiolus gracilis in my raised beds actually looks better than in my sheltered pots. I just have to pick the blooms if rain is predicted for days. Otherwise they not only will be ruined but will be an entry place for disease. I grew Gladiolus dalenii for years in my northern California garden, an orange and yellow form pictured on the wiki. It bloomed like a charm every year in the fall, but the time varied from October to December. I'm not sure why some years it bloomed earlier than others. Then some people asked for offsets and I dug it up and sent them off and after that it dwindled away to nothing. A friend who got some that thrived in her garden gave me some back, but they bloomed once and disappeared. I count myself lucky that I could grow this summer rainfall species as long as I did with my wet winters and very dry summers. Finally John Grimshaw sent me a picture for the wiki of one of the Gladiolus papilio he grows: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusThree#papilio If neither of those links wrap take out the spaces. Mary Sue From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Mar 8 12:51:46 2007 Message-Id: <001201c761aa$7249c400$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Ungernia, my lifelong quest Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 12:51:47 -0500 Ungernia severtzovii is illustrated in the newer (1989 vs. 1981) editions of the Rix & Phillips Bulbs. When I first saw this photo about fifteen years ago, it reminded me of some of the run-down forms of Lycoris sanguinea I've grown. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Mar 8 13:23:52 2007 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Ungernia, my lifelong quest Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 10:23:39 -0800 Ungernia severtzovii is illustrated in the newer (1989 vs. 1981) editions of the Rix & Phillips Bulbs. ==================== And it says that it grows in a bulb frame but only flowers in a really hot summer. Maybe the cover needs to be kept on the frame. Diane Whitehead From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Thu Mar 8 14:45:33 2007 Message-Id: <6ddbf34bf1d6d5d09b13b329414ba011@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Ungernia - My annual lament Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 11:45:31 -0800 Jim, I'm no expert, but like Don, I have this ridiculous notion of trying to grow it and see it in bloom for myself. In fact, I'd never even heard of it until you began your annual laments. My only reason for hope in trying to grow it in my climate is that the summers here seem to resemble what the world climate site says the summers are like in the 'Stan countries. I know it doesn't get anywhere near cold enough here, but there are some species tulips originally from Central Asia that do just find here. Anyway, I'm a bit puzzled about your request for any source of seeds because you are a co-author with J. J. Halda of the Czech Republic of that Paeonia book. Doesn't he travel to all of those countries all the time? His seed catalog seems to imply that he goes yearly. For the last three years (that's as long as I've known about him--after someone mentioned his catalog in response to your first annual lament), he has listed seeds for a number of different Ungernia species. I've ordered them all three years and have been spectacularly unsuccessful at getting them to germinate even though I've tried several different methods. (Most involving letting them sit exposed outside all winter long. Next I think I might try moist paper towels in the refrigerator. Do you know the proper way to germinate them?) However, in two of the pots from my first year's attempt, a slightly larger single leaf has emerged this winter for the third year. I'm still afraid it's a weed or some stray Zephyranthes seedling of some kind. (These are a problem all over my yard and bulb collection.) But I don't want to disturb them for fear I may kill them if I do. Alan Meerow said they germinated right away for him (in Florida!?) one time when he attempted them. If I remember correctly, he said they grew a really long tap root, and then died. So I've been sowing my attempts in tall seedling pots with a very well draining gravelly and pumicey medium. So have you asked Halda if he might be able to find you some bulbs during his travels there? He obviously is collecting seeds in those countries. Does he grow plants from all the seeds he collects? In this year's catalog for the first time, he offered some actual plants of one of the other difficult species he collects. Or maybe he knows some contacts over there. I think he or someone mentioned that bulbs are being collected to extract some chemical for research that might be useful for medical purposes. If you can track down who those researchers are, maybe they might be willing to give you a bulb or two as well. Since you're the chief Lycoris expert, and they're closely related (closest relative?), it seems they ought to help you out with Ungernia as well, IMHO. Probably less than two cents worth, but... --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a On Mar 8, 2007, at 6:42 AM, James Waddick wrote: > Dear Friends; > It seems at least once a year, I make a call for help in > regard to Ungernia. > > I have two bulbs in the garden just coming up - both strong > new growth and so far at least one has doubled. > Both are in the garden for 5 years or more, but never a bloom > > I am always open for any source for bulbs or seeds of any > species. Do any of you have contacts in any of the Central Asian > 'Stan' countries - Uzbekistan, Tadjistan, Afghanistan, etc.? Same for > Iran and others. > > I appreciate any wild goose chase leads anyone can suggest to > locate a bulb or two of any species in the genus. > > > Thanks for any help. best Jim W. From donhackenberry@acsworld.com Thu Mar 8 15:33:33 2007 Message-Id: <001b01c761c1$349aefa0$14584845@oemcomputer> From: "Don Hackenberry" Subject: Ungernia Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 15:34:41 -0500 Dear Jim, Jim, Diane, and All, Turns out I have the 1981 Rix & Phillips, no Ungernia. Did a Google search, Ungernia photos on the web aren't on the web yet, except for herbarium specimens. Most interesting site is www.naturetrek.co.uk/reports/Report%20kaz%20Alpine%20Flowers%202004.doc . Note that they grew at the top of the rocky slope above the river gorge. That's at the bottom of p 3. "So what is the secret of Norm Deno's front yard?" He has about eight inches of sand over soil. Now, there are some sites where you can do that, and some, such as windswept hilltops, where your sand will be blown away. But you may think of something, such as rocks to hold the sand down. Best, Don From donhackenberry@acsworld.com Thu Mar 8 15:37:20 2007 Message-Id: <002301c761c1$bf066c00$14584845@oemcomputer> From: "Don Hackenberry" Subject: Ungernia- My annual lament Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 15:38:34 -0500 Dear Lee, Moist paper towels is the Deno way of doing it. Do check frequently and transfer to a fresh towel if mould develops. Best, Don From dells@voicenet.com Thu Mar 8 16:01:45 2007 Message-Id: <20070308210145.320114C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Ungernia Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 16:01:23 -0500 Don, The 1989 edition of Rix & Phillips has a photo of Ungernia sv.... Jim Waddick was kind enough to send me a few seeds some years back, and I had no germination with them. Has anyone vacationed in Iran (Persia) lately? Dell -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Don Hackenberry Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 3:35 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Ungernia Dear Jim, Jim, Diane, and All, Turns out I have the 1981 Rix & Phillips, no Ungernia. Did a Google search, Ungernia photos on the web aren't on the web yet, except for herbarium specimens. Most interesting site is www.naturetrek.co.uk/reports/Report%20kaz%20Alpine%20Flowers%202004.doc . Note that they grew at the top of the rocky slope above the river gorge. That's at the bottom of p 3. "So what is the secret of Norm Deno's front yard?" He has about eight inches of sand over soil. Now, there are some sites where you can do that, and some, such as windswept hilltops, where your sand will be blown away. But you may think of something, such as rocks to hold the sand down. Best, Don _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From MLGD@aol.com Thu Mar 8 16:40:11 2007 Message-Id: <8C92FE174A2052B-E14-1E20@WEBMAIL-DF09.sysops.aol.com> From: mlgd@aol.com Subject: new member..South African plants and Eucomis autumnalis Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 16:39:59 -0500 Hello Hendrik from South Africa's Proudplants and others of PBS~ As a very new member to PBS as well, I too am very impressed with the conversations and knowledge of this group. I've enjoyed the glad (and sometimes not so "glad") discussion. My Ledbouria are blooming right now and some of my Aloes are too--of course being from Pennsylvania they are inside. I am addicted to South African succulents (and others, too). My Eucomis are starting to pop their heads up out of their pots a bit too early. They are extremely easy to winter-over here. Each fall we dig up the bulbs, usually after the first light frost has knocked them down, pot them up in a soilless potting mix (such as ProMix) and tuck them away for the winter in the basement or wherever they won't be in the way and then we don't think about them again until Spring. Really, not one thought. Then in May I bring out the pots and put them on my patio/porch in the sun and give them a drink of water. Then they take off from there. As soon as I'm finished with classes later in May and when I can get around to it I transplant them to the garden or to mixed containers and continue to enjoy them for the rest of the summer. What a plant! Some of my Eucomis have even been hardy over the winter--some of those that I didn't get around to digging up in the fall. A few Eucomis autumnalis have come up year-after year for about 5 years. And we don't normally have snow cover Like Ellen Hornig has in Oswego New York. After seeing pictures of Oswego, I suppose saying "snow cover" is an understatement this year. This must sound unblieveable and like a lot of effort just to have Eucomis (and so many other tender things like South African gladiolus or ... shudder....hybrid glads) in our gardens to someone from South Africa. I'm sure to most of us it isn't WORK...it's what we do because we love the challenge (though Eucomis is NOT a challenge at all), the surprise, the "having", and the beauty of it all in our gardens. What's most amazing to me is that you, Hendrik, are roasting in South Africa desperately wishing for rain and I'm here enjoying a hint of sunshine sneaking through the windows while it won't get above freezing here today. Some of you of this PBS discussion group are buried deep in snow and others are already enjoying a taste of spring while all of us are able to have this continuous conversation. The thoughts, the suggestions, the experiences and the passions shared among people around the world in minutes. Really AMAZING! Marilyn Daly Rosewood Farm Dallastown, Pennsylvania Zone 6 (though I heard this year "we've moved into Zone 7 this year"...could this be true?) A sunny and wintry day began this morning at 2F. mlgd@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: proudplants@telkomsa.net To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] new member Hi All I'm allso new to this group and from South Africa. I am very impressed with the knowledge of the members of the PBS. I love our SA plants and grow a lot of them. My favoured bulbs are Ledeboria's Eucomus and Nerines and then the Aloes and SA succulents.Living in a very warm part of our land I don't know a cold frame and we use a greenhouse to germinate seed and to root cuttings.At the moment it is very dry and we need rain desperatly. Enjoy your gardening !!!! Hendrik Strydom proudplants@telkomsa.net -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of MLGD@aol.com Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 5:03 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] new member Hello~~~ I'm new to this group, and actually, I've never been on a "list" so I'm not sure how this works. I came across Matt Mattus's blog (I'm not sure what a blog is exactly) and was so impressed because he was growing Lachenalia and Nerines and other South African bulbs. I grow a lot of South African plants and am growing a lot of South African bulbs in a greenhouse this winter. I live in Pennsylvania. I'd love to hear about other's experiences with South African bulbs (and other South African plants as well) in these cold climates as well as in more reasonable areas for growing them (Pacific Northwest, California, Florida, etc.). Hope this is what I'm supposed to do to make contact. Thanks for any instructions you can pass on to me for how to "do lists" and "do blogs." Marilyn


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Mar 8 16:43:43 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Ungernia in Iran Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 15:43:33 -0600 > Has anyone vacationed in Iran (Persia) lately? > >Dell Dear Dell et al; There is an interesting little book called 'Tulips and Irises of Iran and their Relatives". Originally published by the Botanical Institute of Iran, (__blacked out "Royal"_) Botanical Garden. This gives the characteristics of the two species U. trisphera and U. flava and one picture of the former. U trisphera from Khorassan has terra cotta flowers; U. flava from Kordestan has yellow flowers. The book has a wealth of bulbous plants to drool over. Anyone travel much to/from Iran? best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From dells@voicenet.com Thu Mar 8 17:03:38 2007 Message-Id: <20070308220338.5D2444C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: new member..South African plants and Eucomis autumnalis Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 16:58:43 -0500 Dear Marilyn, I can't remember where Dallastown is. I live in the outskirts of New Hope in Bucks Co. I haven't read your whole message yet - but I am very familiar with the seasonal dance of the potted and non-hardy bulbs. And as the climate changes, who can guess what will survive and what won't? Oh, I grow SA succulents as well: a bunch of us do! Welcome to the group! There's good stuff here! And check out our website to find out about the PBS BX - our seed and bulb exchange. Cheers, Dell Dell Sherk, SE PA Zone 6/7, Director, PBS BX -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of mlgd@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 4:40 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] new member..South African plants and Eucomis autumnalis Hello Hendrik from South Africa's Proudplants and others of PBS~ As a very new member to PBS as well, I too am very impressed with the conversations and knowledge of this group. I've enjoyed the glad (and sometimes not so "glad") discussion. My Ledbouria are blooming right now and some of my Aloes are too--of course being from Pennsylvania they are inside. I am addicted to South African succulents (and others, too). My Eucomis are starting to pop their heads up out of their pots a bit too early. They are extremely easy to winter-over here. Each fall we dig up the bulbs, usually after the first light frost has knocked them down, pot them up in a soilless potting mix (such as ProMix) and tuck them away for the winter in the basement or wherever they won't be in the way and then we don't think about them again until Spring. Really, not one thought. Then in May I bring out the pots and put them on my patio/porch in the sun and give them a drink of water. Then they take off from there. As soon as I'm finished with classes later in May and when I can get around to it I transplant them to the garden or to mixed containers and continue to enjoy them for the rest of the summer. What a plant! Some of my Eucomis have even been hardy over the winter--some of those that I didn't get around to digging up in the fall. A few Eucomis autumnalis have come up year-after year for about 5 years. And we don't normally have snow cover Like Ellen Hornig has in Oswego New York. After seeing pictures of Oswego, I suppose saying "snow cover" is an understatement this year. This must sound unblieveable and like a lot of effort just to have Eucomis (and so many other tender things like South African gladiolus or ... shudder....hybrid glads) in our gardens to someone from South Africa. I'm sure to most of us it isn't WORK...it's what we do because we love the challenge (though Eucomis is NOT a challenge at all), the surprise, the "having", and the beauty of it all in our gardens. What's most amazing to me is that you, Hendrik, are roasting in South Africa desperately wishing for rain and I'm here enjoying a hint of sunshine sneaking through the windows while it won't get above freezing here today. Some of you of this PBS discussion group are buried deep in snow and others are already enjoying a taste of spring while all of us are able to have this continuous conversation. The thoughts, the suggestions, the experiences and the passions shared among people around the world in minutes. Really AMAZING! Marilyn Daly Rosewood Farm Dallastown, Pennsylvania Zone 6 (though I heard this year "we've moved into Zone 7 this year"...could this be true?) A sunny and wintry day began this morning at 2F. mlgd@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: proudplants@telkomsa.net To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] new member Hi All I'm allso new to this group and from South Africa. I am very impressed with the knowledge of the members of the PBS. I love our SA plants and grow a lot of them. My favoured bulbs are Ledeboria's Eucomus and Nerines and then the Aloes and SA succulents.Living in a very warm part of our land I don't know a cold frame and we use a greenhouse to germinate seed and to root cuttings.At the moment it is very dry and we need rain desperatly. Enjoy your gardening !!!! Hendrik Strydom proudplants@telkomsa.net -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of MLGD@aol.com Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 5:03 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] new member Hello~~~ I'm new to this group, and actually, I've never been on a "list" so I'm not sure how this works. I came across Matt Mattus's blog (I'm not sure what a blog is exactly) and was so impressed because he was growing Lachenalia and Nerines and other South African bulbs. I grow a lot of South African plants and am growing a lot of South African bulbs in a greenhouse this winter. I live in Pennsylvania. I'd love to hear about other's experiences with South African bulbs (and other South African plants as well) in these cold climates as well as in more reasonable areas for growing them (Pacific Northwest, California, Florida, etc.). Hope this is what I'm supposed to do to make contact. Thanks for any instructions you can pass on to me for how to "do lists" and "do blogs." Marilyn


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From adavis@ecoresource.com Thu Mar 8 17:14:43 2007 Message-Id: <009901c761cf$2c571ea0$0305a8c0@crinum> From: "Alani Davis" Subject: Calla palustris Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 17:14:42 -0500 Canna palustris is a great plant for those who see its charms. It has grown well for me and bloomed annually for a number of years in an unlikely latitude here in north Florida along with bogbean, Menyanthes trifoliata, both of which were originally from Eagle River, Wisconsin. I grew them in a large pot of mucky sand with soil surface with 2 inches of the water surface in either direction depending on fluctuation of the water garden they were in. I may still have it but it took a hit when after moving it was in a temporary situation in an above ground pool which burst allow the plants to bake in August sun for a week without water before the situation was discovered. Oh the heartaches, but we go on. I think I will restrain from singing but a nice plant all the same! Alani Davis Tallahassee, Florida Zone 8b -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jim McKenney Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 8:19 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Calla palustris I'll join the chorus for Calla palustris; but since I'm about to sing off key, you'll probably want to kick me out! Yes, it's a beguiling little plant, and I would be very happy to have it established in my garden. However, I've tried it twice over the years, and it has never survived more than two summers. In wet boggy ground it disappeared during the summer; in water it simply dissolved. I think both accessions came from far northern populations, and that might explain the problems I had. I'll be glad to hear from anyone who knows of a source of plants from near the southern limits of their distribution. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 where nasty winter weather is back upon us. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From robertwerra@pacific.net Thu Mar 8 17:25:00 2007 Message-Id: <000c01c761d0$4dda1c20$ba296ad0@popbob> From: robertwerra@pacific.net Subject: Importing Seeds and bulbs Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 14:22:48 -0800 To All, I just received a package of seeds and bulbs,(mainly moraeas) from a commercial source in South Africa with no difficulty. He listed my address, the contents and the enclosed Phyto certificate and number on the package. I received it promptly and unopened. Bob Werra From robertwerra@pacific.net Thu Mar 8 17:42:46 2007 Message-Id: <001c01c761d3$17340f70$ba296ad0@popbob> From: robertwerra@pacific.net Subject: Hardy So. African Glad Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 14:42:45 -0800 To All, I grow Gladiolus huttoni, formerly Homoglossum. It escaped and formed a small patch on my hillside 10 years ago. Regular frosty winters haven't phased them. This winter we had an "Arctic Express" and the temp. went to 15 F. for a number of nights. I attempted to protect all other plants, but forgot Gl. huttoni. Now they are displaying their gorgeous scarlet blossoms. Bob Werra in inland no. Calif. From Theladygardens@aol.com Thu Mar 8 19:49:46 2007 Message-Id: From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Iris Judging Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 19:49:36 EST Hello, I hope you are well and that your biggest concern in life is how to get a Ungernia bulb to bloom. Knowing how much a person can want a particular bulb to bloom, I do hope you can accomplish this. I am asking if there is a chance you will be in the San Jose area visiting your daughter and her family during the time period of April 28 and if so would you be interested in judging the Clara B Rees Iris Show? Now I realize this is a long shot. Unfortunately we can't offer you a plane ticket (or at least I don't think we can, I'll check) but we can offer room and board, a token $50 for judging and a free lunch after the judging of the show. You are probably thinking "what a deal". You already know we are a bit excentric! You could also see my new greenhouse Wayne put together on the back of the house with plastic and boards we were going to throw out, but now we will wait until all the seedlings have sprouted. You could check out the 100 fruit trees in 1 gallon pots that Wayne grafted and the new bee hives he has built. Not to mention seeing the garden in bloom. We have lots of fruit trees in bloom and lots of narcissus, crocus and other bulbs. Yes, we have a real shortage of judges this year but would consider it an honor if you just happened to be in the area and could judge our show.. Carolyn Craft


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From Theladygardens@aol.com Thu Mar 8 19:52:50 2007 Message-Id: From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Iris Judging Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 19:52:46 EST Sorry, this was not meant to go to the entire group! I'm embarrassed, again!


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From arnold@nj.rr.com Thu Mar 8 21:13:37 2007 Message-Id: <45F0C2CE.5080304@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Ungernia in Iran Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 21:13:34 -0500 Jim: Lets not forget the author, Per Wendelbo. Arnold From eez55@earthlink.net Thu Mar 8 22:22:10 2007 Message-Id: <380-2200735932810910@earthlink.net> From: "Eugene Zielinski" Subject: Ungernia, my lifelong quest Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 22:28:10 -0500 There's also a picture in the latest (Winter 2007) NARGS Rock Garden Quarterly, taken in habitat in the Chatkal Range. Not too impressive. Gene Eugene Zielinski Augusta, GA USA > > Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 12:51:47 -0500 > From: "Jim McKenney" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Ungernia, my lifelong quest > > Ungernia severtzovii is illustrated in the newer (1989 vs. 1981) editions of > the Rix & Phillips Bulbs. > > When I first saw this photo about fifteen years ago, it reminded me of some > of the run-down forms of Lycoris sanguinea I've grown. > > > > Jim McKenney From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Mar 9 00:08:59 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Ungernia in Iran Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 22:58:12 -0600 >Lets not forget the author, Per Wendelbo. And also the describer of Iris afghanica (1969) and Iris cycloglossa (1958) The former still not widely cultivated and the latter one of the most beautiful Junos around. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Mar 9 00:09:01 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Ungernia, my lifelong quest Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 23:08:51 -0600 >There's also a picture in the latest (Winter 2007) NARGS Rock Garden >Quarterly, taken in habitat in the Chatkal Range. But even pix are few and far between. Alas. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Fri Mar 9 02:46:52 2007 Message-Id: <00af01c7621f$1872bf70$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Tropical African Gladiolus Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 07:46:48 -0000 Mary Sue wrote: >Although they don't talk of species in central Africa, when I was doing the thumbnails for Gladiolus and trying to decide how to split them up there was one on the wiki that was in that area with a photo supplied by John Grimshaw, Gladiolus watsonioides: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MiscellaneousGladiolus#watsonioides >Perhaps it's a candidate to be included in the hardiness test group. There is of course the companion volume by Goldblatt, Gladiolus in Tropical Africa (Timber Press 1996), covering the 82 species recognised by him at that time. Of these a few species overlap with those covered in 'Gladiolus in Southern Africa', but the majority are rather local in their distribution. The principal exception is the ubiqiuitous G. dalenii, found throughout subsaharan Africa (and Madagascar) except in the densest rainforests or driest deserts. It extends northwards to the mountains of Yemen and western Saudi Arabia, and thus makes the nearest approach of an 'African' species to those of Eurasia (which all look rather similar and have pink/magenta/violet flowers). There is a hint in Goldblatt's book that its distribution may have been assisted by humans. On the lower slopes of Kilimanjaro it is a weed of arable fields and in fallow years can flower abundantly, colouring areas orange. Like Chris Whitehouse, my experience with unadulterated G. dalenii has not been very satisfactory, as it flowers too late in the year. Clones such as 'Boone', which may or may not be hybrids, are much more reliable. I have, however, recently been sent new material of G. dalenii that might be more satisfactory. G. watsonioides is the highest altitude Gladiolus (up to 3900 m, 12,800' on Mt. Kenya) and quite capable of withstanding nightly air frosts. The problem with it in cultivation is that it doesn't have a defined seasonal cycle and can be in growth at any time of year (although it usually flowers for me in autumn). I know people in the British Isles who attempt it outside, but I think a very sheltered site is needed for success. I should think that the San Francisco bay area would ideal with its cool summers & mild winters. There are several other red-flowered Tropical African species of which I've seen G. longispathaceus and G. abyssinicus in the Bale Mountains of southern Ethiopia. The latter has curious narrow tubular flowers with a large green bract behind them, one of several species throughout Africa with such an adaptation to bird pollination. The most important commercial species of Tropical African origin is G. murielae (Acidanthera murielae of catalogues) with a scattered but wide distribution from Ethiopia to Malawi. It is not reliably hardy in the UK. In the same section (Acidanthera) is the beautiful, pure white G. candidus, which can be abundant in grassland in the East African highlands. I would love to spend time investigating the pollinators of these two species, as I suspect that G. murielae shares a pollinator with Impatiens tinctoria (both have large white flowers with a purple centre and delicious evening perfume, and a very similar range), and in Tanzania G. candidus grows in the same grasslands as the pure white Delphinium leroyi, which is also beautifully scented. The two are similar in stature and flower size. All of these potential partners in pollination have a long nectariferous spur or perianth tube. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 COLESBOURNE PARK OPEN DAYS 2007 Easter Monday 9 April, Arboretum Weekend 15-16 September Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Mar 9 02:55:55 2007 Message-Id: <895C6ABB-4D30-4EDB-81FC-4497F3E1B3CD@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: John Grimshaw speaking in U.S. Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 23:55:44 -0800 There was a message on Alpine-L today that John Grimshaw is going to speak about snowdrops at Winterthur, in the Eastern U.S. Are you going to be speaking elsewhere, too, John? Diane Whitehead From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Fri Mar 9 03:32:23 2007 Message-Id: <00ca01c76225$74391b00$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: John Grimshaw speaking in U.S. Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 08:32:18 -0000 It's probably easiest just to copy Bobby Ward's post to Alpine -L. It's just a flying visit to give a couple of lectures at Winterthur, so I'm not speaking anywhere else on this occasion. ******* Alpine-L members who are snowdrop enthusiasts may want to be aware that Winterthur Museum & Country Estate (Winterthur, Delaware, USA) is having a snowdrop lecture and winter garden tour on Sunday, March 18, 2007, titled "Bank to Bend--A Snowdrop Lecture & Tour." The speaker is Dr. John Grimshaw, an Alpine-L member, who is garden manager for Colesbourne Park in Gloucestershire, U.K. John is the co-author of "Snowdrops: a Monograph of Cultivated Galanthus" (2001), book now back in print. The program begins at 1:00 p.m. Information about John's lecture and garden tour is available at http://www.winterthur.org/calendar/calendar.asp Bobby Ward -- Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 COLESBOURNE PARK OPEN DAYS 2007 Easter Monday 9 April, Arboretum Weekend 15-16 September Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane Whitehead" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 7:55 AM Subject: [pbs] John Grimshaw speaking in U.S. > There was a message on Alpine-L today that John Grimshaw is going to > speak about snowdrops at Winterthur, in the Eastern U.S. > > Are you going to be speaking elsewhere, too, John? > > > Diane Whitehead > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.7/713 - Release Date: 07/03/2007 > > From tony@plantdelights.com Fri Mar 9 07:35:46 2007 Message-Id: <45F154A5.4060406@plantdelights.com> From: Tony Avent Subject: Tropical African Gladiolus Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 07:35:49 -0500 John: You bring up some interesting questions. Gladiolus dalenii (from wc seed) is completely hardy for us, probably due to our summer heat. G. murielae is marginal here and we will loose it in a cold (below 10 degrees F) winter. Do you have any idea where in the range the material in the trade came from? Low or high elevations? I've often wondered if there couldn't be material found with better winter hardiness. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Mar 9 09:33:15 2007 Message-Id: <000301c76257$e15e7810$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Tropical African Gladiolus Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 09:33:17 -0500 Tony Avent asked: "G. murielae is marginal here and we will loose it in a cold (below 10 degrees F) winter. Do you have any idea where in the range the material in the trade came from? Low or high elevations? I've often wondered if there couldn't be material found with better winter hardiness." I don't know the answers to Tony's questions, but they remind me of something I read recently. Somewhere recently I read that what we now call Galdiolus murielae was introduced by a major bulb company in 1928. That does not sit well with me, although part of the answer may have to do with just what you consider G. murielae to be. Already in the nineteenth century the plant then known as Acidanthera bicolor was in cultivation, and for most of my life the commercial material has been called Acidanthera bicolor murielae. There is another sort of evidence that there have been multiple introductions. Most older books, in discussing these plants, mention that they are very late blooming. Is that because writers were simply repeating the experience reported by growers in comparatively cooler northwestern Europe? Or is it because so many of the early American books were based on experience on New England, where the summers are shorter? I've often wondered if the introduction and eventual popularity of stocks under the name murielae was occasioned by an earlier bloom time. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Fri Mar 9 10:13:32 2007 Message-Id: <005a01c7625d$7e770b80$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Gladiolus murielae Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 15:13:28 -0000 Jim & Tony have raised questions about this attractive plant. Its name is due to a tangle of taxonomy. If the segregate genus Acidanthera was maintained (which it certainly should not be) for these white-flowered Gladiolus, the name would be Acidanthera bicolor (which is what most catalogues still call it), a name given in 1844. But there already is a Gladiolus bicolor, so that is not an option when the species is transferred to the genus Gladiolus. The rules of taxonomy then require that the first name validly published at specific level in that genus be used: this is Gladiolus murielae Kelway. I am presuming that this is Kelway of Kelway's nursery in Somerset, famous for peonies and irises - thus the 'major bulb company' mentioned by Jim. It was described in the 'Gardener's Chronicle' in 1932, as many such plants were, often with less than a modern-standard description etc, but still valid. To answer Tony's question, Goldblatt says that the original collecting locality, where a Mr Erskine found it, is unknown. (Muriel was Mrs Erskine.). In northern Ethiopia it has been found up to 2090 m asl: this is not high enough for serious frost that would penetrate the ground. It may well be that the 'murielae' version of Acidanthera bicolor, to lapse into catalogue-speak, was better suited to garden cultivation than older stocks, hence its rapid rise to enduring popularity. It is certainly not an early-flowering plant in this country, but that does not mean to say that it isn't earlier to flower than other forms that it has now eclipsed. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 COLESBOURNE PARK OPEN DAYS 2007 Easter Monday 9 April, Arboretum Weekend 15-16 September Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McKenney" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Tropical African Gladiolus > Tony Avent asked: "G. murielae is marginal here and we will loose it in a > cold (below 10 > degrees F) winter. Do you have any idea where in the range the material > in the trade came from? Low or high elevations? I've often wondered if > there couldn't be material found with better winter hardiness." > > > > I don't know the answers to Tony's questions, but they remind me of > something I read recently. Somewhere recently I read that what we now call > Galdiolus murielae was introduced by a major bulb company in 1928. > That does not sit well with me, although part of the answer may have to do > with just what you consider G. murielae to be. > Already in the nineteenth century the plant then known as Acidanthera > bicolor was in cultivation, and for most of my life the commercial > material > has been called Acidanthera bicolor murielae. > There is another sort of evidence that there have been multiple > introductions. Most older books, in discussing these plants, mention that > they are very late blooming. Is that because writers were simply repeating > the experience reported by growers in comparatively cooler northwestern > Europe? Or is it because so many of the early American books were based on > experience on New England, where the summers are shorter? > I've often wondered if the introduction and eventual popularity of stocks > under the name murielae was occasioned by an earlier bloom time. > From tony@plantdelights.com Fri Mar 9 10:39:12 2007 Message-Id: <45F17FA0.5080007@plantdelights.com> From: Tony Avent Subject: Tropical African Gladiolus Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 10:39:12 -0500 Jim: All of the Acidanthera/Gladiolus that we've ever grown flowers very late here...early-mid October. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent Jim McKenney wrote: > Tony Avent asked: "G. murielae is marginal here and we will loose it in a > cold (below 10 > degrees F) winter. Do you have any idea where in the range the material > in the trade came from? Low or high elevations? I've often wondered if > there couldn't be material found with better winter hardiness." > > > > I don't know the answers to Tony's questions, but they remind me of > something I read recently. Somewhere recently I read that what we now call > Galdiolus murielae was introduced by a major bulb company in 1928. > > > > That does not sit well with me, although part of the answer may have to do > with just what you consider G. murielae to be. > > > > Already in the nineteenth century the plant then known as Acidanthera > bicolor was in cultivation, and for most of my life the commercial material > has been called Acidanthera bicolor murielae. > > > > There is another sort of evidence that there have been multiple > introductions. Most older books, in discussing these plants, mention that > they are very late blooming. Is that because writers were simply repeating > the experience reported by growers in comparatively cooler northwestern > Europe? Or is it because so many of the early American books were based on > experience on New England, where the summers are shorter? > > > > I've often wondered if the introduction and eventual popularity of stocks > under the name murielae was occasioned by an earlier bloom time. > > > > Jim McKenney > > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 > > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com > > > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org > > > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Mar 9 11:10:07 2007 Message-Id: <001301c76265$6a456460$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Tropical African Gladiolus Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 11:10:10 -0500 Tony Avent wrote: "All of the Acidanthera/Gladiolus that we've ever grown flowers very late here...early-mid October." That's surprising to me, Tony, because plants growing here bloom much earlier than that, and you've got us beaten in the heat department. And plants in containers (big tubs) bloom before plants in the ground. They're usually blooming sometime in August here. They bloom early enough to ripen seed easily. The plants I'm describing are grown from corms which are dug annually and stored at room temperature. By the time I plant them they usually have sprouts an inch or two long. Are you describing plants left in the ground? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where winter is relaxing its grip for a few days. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From donhackenberry@acsworld.com Fri Mar 9 11:47:27 2007 Message-Id: <002f01c7626a$cc09d3c0$07584845@oemcomputer> From: "Don Hackenberry" Subject: John Grimshaw speaking in US Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 11:48:38 -0500 Dear John, "...a couple of lectures at Winterthur,.." I only know of one, is there another one? For me, this all started with a walk around Winterthur with Jim Jermyn and _______ (forgive my brain failure, was he also with Edrom or at Edinburgh?, can you fill in the blank for me?), and I remarked to our host, "You're sitting on a Galanthus goldmine!" Well, they've done a little mining. Best, Don From honeybunny442@yahoo.com Fri Mar 9 12:22:35 2007 Message-Id: <341374.56202.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com> From: Susan B Subject: Acidanthera/G. murielae Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 09:22:35 -0800 (PST) I grew this in zone 5 Wisconsin, planting it probably early June?? My first photo of it was 7/24, it continued to bloom all summer and wafted spicey scent around the yard. We liked it a lot. Unfortunately, when we moved, I didn't get them all dug up... will be going back to dig up some plants this spring but don't expect to find any bulbs remaining with the cold weather and snow they had this winter. Susan --------------------------------- Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. From tony@plantdelights.com Fri Mar 9 12:42:44 2007 Message-Id: <45F19C98.3090602@plantdelights.com> From: Tony Avent Subject: Tropical African Gladiolus Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 12:42:48 -0500 Jim: Yes, these are growing in the ground. This could make a little difference in flowering time. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent Jim McKenney wrote: > Tony Avent wrote: "All of the Acidanthera/Gladiolus that we've ever grown > flowers very late here...early-mid October." > > That's surprising to me, Tony, because plants growing here bloom much > earlier than that, and you've got us beaten in the heat department. > > And plants in containers (big tubs) bloom before plants in the ground. > They're usually blooming sometime in August here. They bloom early enough to > ripen seed easily. > > The plants I'm describing are grown from corms which are dug annually and > stored at room temperature. By the time I plant them they usually have > sprouts an inch or two long. > > Are you describing plants left in the ground? > > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where winter is relaxing its > grip for a few days. > > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Mar 9 13:03:35 2007 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Tropical African Gladiolus Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 10:03:03 -0800 Bailey's Standard Cyclopedia of Horticulture, which was reprinted many times, but seems to have been last changed in 1922, says this about Acidanthera (written by N. Taylor) (I have not copied the descriptions.) bicolor: May be grown in a tub outdoors during summer and flowered within during Oct. Corms should be dried as soon as lifted, to prevent rot. aequinoctialis Baker: Sierra Leone May be a stronger-growing and more tropical form of the above. Requires warmhouse culture candida Rendle: very sweet scented [no cultural information given] The Cyclopedia, first published in 1900, listed only plants currently in the trade in the U.S. and Canada, as "it would manifestly be impossible ... to include all the plants ..in botanic gardens or in the grounds of specialists and amateurs who collect specimens from original sources, or those introduced for... experiment ..or..scientific study". An interesting note from the Preface to the Second Edition: "Many species have been disseminated in an experimental way, as by the Office of Foreign Seed and Plant Introduction of the United States Department of Agriculture ...." Ah, those were the days! Diane Whitehead From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Fri Mar 9 13:24:24 2007 Message-Id: <008a01c76278$27cfb5f0$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: John Grimshaw speaking in US Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 18:24:19 -0000 "...a couple of lectures at Winterthur,.." I only know of one, is there > another one? Yes, one on Saturday for members of the Winterthur Garden & Landscape Society. The public lecture is on Sunday. Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 COLESBOURNE PARK OPEN DAYS 2007 Easter Monday 9 April, Arboretum Weekend 15-16 September Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Mar 9 13:57:18 2007 Message-Id: <001401c7627c$c5176520$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Tropical African Gladiolus Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 13:57:21 -0500 Diane Whitehead and I are certainly thinking alike today. I, too, consulted the Bailey Cyclopedia in the two editions I have here: the original turn-of-the-century (1904) edition and a later 1925 edition. I was trying to find an early citation of the name murielae in an American publication. Among other things, I also checked the 1928 spring catalog of the John Scheepers Co. - there was no mention of Acidanthera in any form. But, and let this be a warning to others looking around, there was a garden cultivar called Muriel listed in that catalog. This is illustrated - it was a purple/blue colored cultivar. The illustrations in these old catalogs suggest that many of these hybrid glads were not far removed - at least on one side of their parentage - from wild Gladiolus. Evidently breeders were using wild Gladiolus to bring in new colors at this time. The "blue" flowered cultivars in particular seem to show this. The following species of Gladiolus were also offered in this catalog: dracocephalus, quartinianus, psittacinus, primulinus and saundersii. Diane also wrote: "An interesting note from the Preface to the Second Edition: [of the Bailey work] "Many species have been disseminated in an experimental way, as by the Office of Foreign Seed and Plant Introduction of the United States Department of Agriculture ...." Ah, those were the days!" Well, let's not forget the whole history. They might have been the good old days for awhile, but don't forget the bulb quarantine which followed those good ol' days. The present problems we are having with the importation of seeds suggests that many parties involved seem to have forgotten that sorry episode in overweening mismanagement by the Federal Government. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Scilla messenaica is blooming in the cold frame today. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From sabepafronta@yahoo.com Fri Mar 9 20:59:27 2007 Message-Id: <263349.19823.qm@web38711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Jacob Knecht Subject: Tropical African Gladiolus Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 17:59:26 -0800 (PST) I am so glad Diane brought up the subject of tropical African Gladiolus. I would really like to grow some of these here in Honolulu. I have Gladiolus in Tropical Africa by Peter Goldblatt and from the colour pictures I can say I am most bewitched by: Gladiolus serapiiflorus Gladiolus dalenii subsp. dalenii Gladiolus velutinus Gladilous magnificus Gladiolus benguellensis Gladiolus melleri Gladiolus abyssinicus Gladiolus decorus If anyone is growing them or knows where to acquire them, I would love to hear their experiences. Aloha, Jacob Knecht Honolulu, Hawai`i http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/ --- Diane Whitehead wrote: > Bailey's Standard Cyclopedia of Horticulture, which > was reprinted > many times, but seems to have been last changed in > 1922, says this > about Acidanthera (written by N. Taylor) (I have > not copied the > descriptions.) > > bicolor: May be grown in a tub outdoors during > summer and flowered > within during Oct. Corms should be dried as soon as > lifted, to > prevent rot. > > aequinoctialis Baker: Sierra Leone May be a > stronger-growing and > more tropical form of the above. Requires warmhouse > culture > > candida Rendle: very sweet scented [no cultural > information given] > > The Cyclopedia, first published in 1900, listed only > plants currently > in the trade in the U.S. and Canada, as "it would > manifestly be > impossible ... to include all the plants ..in > botanic gardens or in > the grounds of specialists and amateurs who collect > specimens from > original sources, or those introduced for... > experiment ..or..scientific study". > > An interesting note from the Preface to the Second > Edition: > "Many species have been disseminated in an > experimental way, as by > the Office of Foreign Seed and Plant Introduction of > the United > States Department of Agriculture ...." > > Ah, those were the days! > > > Diane Whitehead > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > ____________________________________________________________________________________ No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Mar 9 22:48:33 2007 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Tropical African Gladiolus Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 19:48:19 -0800 Jacob, I was just following on from John Grimshaw's description of plants he has seen growing wild in places like Mt. Kenya and Ethiopia. I decided to see if I could find which botanic gardens hold collections of tropical gladiolus. I did a plant search on the BGCI site: (Botanic Gardens Conservation International) http://www.bgci.org/worldwide/home/ They do not reveal where the plants are, in the interests of plant protection, but give you a chance to email a request for information. Of the gladiolus that interest you, some are not listed anywhere, but the following are present in one botanic garden: Gladiolus dalenii subsp. dalenii 1 Gladiolus melleri 1 Gladiolus abyssinicus 1 Diane Whitehead From dkramb@badbear.com Fri Mar 9 22:52:50 2007 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20070309225152.03343a80@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: First Bloom in Ohio Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 22:53:24 -0500 ONE flower of Iris reticulata opened today when the temps nearly reached 70 deg F. Oh yeah baby... IT IS ON!!! lol (I love spring.) Dennis in Cincy From davidxvictor@btinternet.com Sat Mar 10 03:45:23 2007 Message-Id: <20070310084522.E8CA14C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: David Victor Subject: Ungernia Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 08:45:11 +0000 Hi Jim, You having beaten me in the race to Mike Salmon's last Ungernia bulbs, I'm not sure I should tell you, but........... Josef Halda's catalogue has had around six entries for Ungernia for each of the last three years, collected at a variety of place in southern central Asia. This year, they were mainly from the Pamirs. I have taken them each year but, so far, have only managed to germinate one seedling and that died. Normally, my success rate with such material is pretty high, so I'm not sure whether this failure is to do with the quality of the seed by the time its received, or my methods. Best regards, David Victor From agoston.janos@citromail.hu Sat Mar 10 05:17:23 2007 Message-Id: <002601c762fd$272fa3f0$0d4afea9@gzw1jo1xwad0ctx> From: "Agoston Janos" Subject: First Bloom Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:16:21 +0100 First tulips in Hungary... :) And other first bulbs too... fint the pictures here (2007.03.07): Hyacinthus 'Anne Marie': http://www.viraghagymasz.hu/gazlap/Hyacinthus1.jpg Iris histrioides × winogradowii 'Katherine Hodgkin': http://www.viraghagymasz.hu/gazlap/Iris1.jpg A bit more Katherine: http://www.viraghagymasz.hu/gazlap/Iris2.JPG Tulipa Fosteriana 'Concerto': http://www.viraghagymasz.hu/gazlap/Tulipa1.jpg Tulipa kaufmanniana (The Wild Form): http://www.viraghagymasz.hu/gazlap/Tulipa2.jpg Tulipa Kaufmanniana 'Showwinner' (yesterday): http://www.viraghagymasz.hu/gazlap/tul3.JPG That's all for now... ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Kramb To: iris-species@yahoogroups.com ; pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 4:53 AM Subject: [pbs] First Bloom in Ohio ONE flower of Iris reticulata opened today when the temps nearly reached 70 deg F. Oh yeah baby... IT IS ON!!! lol (I love spring.) Dennis in Cincy _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Mar 10 11:08:41 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Ungernia Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 10:08:32 -0600 Dear Lee, David and all - Yes I have tried Josef Halda's seed multiple times without germination. I understand few people have 'decent ' germination on any of the species of Ungernia that he offers. The one person I have heard of who did get 'decent' germination had no survival. Don't know what to make of it as many people find his other seed of excellent quality. Some day, some one, some where ... will have some success and make fresh seed available. I'm trying. Best wishes. Jim W. ps Incidentally I just got a long article on the unusual structure of the Ungernia bulb (in German), but I'll post an English summary here soon. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From msittner@mcn.org Sat Mar 10 12:13:10 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20070303223700.0169eb70@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: What's blooming now Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 09:12:43 -0800 Hi, In coastal Northern California I am lucky to be able to have some bulb in bloom year round although summer is slow since that is the dry season and although I do grow some summer blooming bulbs, I try to limit growing a lot of things that are probably going to be marginal for me because they need more warmth during the day or night or regular water. We had a dry January and a wet February and now as the days are getting longer and warmer there is a lot blooming. So here is a summary with no doubt some things forgotten: California natives: Allium haematochiton and A. hyalinum; Calochortus uniflorus with some other species in bud; Cardamine californicum, Delphinium nudicaule, D. luteum, D. purpusii, D. hybrids, and D. cardinale in bud (I've lost this latter in the ground and put it in a raised bed and it is too big, obviously liking this too much), Erythronium helenae and E. multiscapoideum (best year ever for this one in a very deep pot; I lost the ones I planted in the ground), and Triteleia that the Robinetts called T. ixioides ssp scabra 'Tiger' but others refer to as T. unifolia. South African irids--Several Babianas including B. framesii and one I can never quite figure out; Freesia alba which means walking through my garden there is fragrance everywhere; Geissorhiza inaequalis everywhere along with G. leipoldtii and a first bloom ever- yea- from G. tulbaghensis; Gladiolus gracilis finishing, G. huttonii hybrids, G. tristis, and lots of buds on other species I expect to open any moment; Hesperantha cucullata, H. latifolia (blooming for months), H. paucifolia and H. vaginata; Moraea atropunctata, M. sisyrinchium, and M. tripetala; Romuleas that continue to bloom and bloom, new ones starting as others finish: R amoena, R. atrandra, R. bulbocodium in many forms, R. citrina, R. diversiformis, R. flava, R. grandiscapa, R. hirta, R. kombergensis, R. obscura; Sparaxis bulbifera, S.grandiflora, and hybrids and Tritonia dubia. My Cyclamen continue to bloom, C. cilicum (long time), C. coum, C. pseuibericum, C. repandum, even C. purpurescens. I have been planting more of them in the ground as the ones I have been growing from seed take up more and more room on my benches and have finally been finding some places in the garden where they thrive. One thrill is C. pseuibericum that is growing with my purple leaved Cardamine californicum, both blooming at the moment. There are a number of Lachenalias blooming on the covered open benches: L. aloides forms aurea, 'Pearsonii' , tricolor, and vanzyyliae, L. attentuata, L. carnosa, L. kliprandensis, L. mediana, L. mutabilis, L. reflexa, and L. splendida. There is a yellow one growing in a Calochortus pot (tag saying unknown bulb when I planted it) that looks like L. orchioides, but a really attractive one. The normal Ipheion uniflorum is in bloom in my garden. Some of those I have in pots have been blooming for 3 or 4 months including white and dark colored ones. This has not been a good year for my Oxalis, but I do have blooms from Oxalis purpurea and Oxalis obtusa, several different clones. Some nice additions from Jane McGary are pleasing me: Hyacinthoides italica and Scilla monophyllos. There are some unknown Crocus in the ground blooming and Crocus kosaninii blooming in a pot. I got really interested in Muscari when it was the topic of the week and started growing it from seed. It's long blooming in my climate, sometimes starting early and then taking a break and going again for several months. Blooming now are M. azureum, M. aucheri, M. botyroides, M. pseudomuscari, and M. neglectum. M. pallens on the other hand is just starting into growth. The wild Hyacinthus orientalis is starting to bloom along with some blue cultivars that were in a pot left behind when we bought our house. They aren't supposed to come back, but they do every year in my raised beds, kept dry in summer. After skipping a year or two and not showing up my Nothoscordum are blooming again this year. I kept them in the greenhouse last summer and watered them every now and then so perhaps that helped. Alberto says they should be called N. felipponei, but I see Kew is saying the accepted names are Nothoscordum dialystemon and Nothoscordum bivalve var. bivalve. The latter I received as Nothoscordum sellowianum. Both came from Bill Dijk who shared these with a number of us in 1999. I turned mine around to the Northern hemisphere, but I think they like warmer summers. They bloom for months and months, brightening the winter and on warm days are especially wonderfully fragrant. Also from almost as long ago and blooming now is a Narcissus that Bill sent me he said was N. jonquilla and Nancy Wilson thought was N. fernandesii. I have some of the latter blooming too from seed she donated to Cal Hort and they do look alike. Maybe some of the Narcissus fans in our group can look at my pictures on the wiki of N. jonquilla and offer an opinion. I have a few other Narcissus blooming in my garden, but I think it's mostly too shady. Other Africans in the Hyacinth family besides Lachenalia blooming are Ornithogalum dubium and Veltheimia bracteata. In the Colchicaceae family I have Onixotis stricta in bloom. I was excited to see another species of that I was growing from seed was going to bloom for the first time this year, but it turned out to be a Wurmbea instead, but that was fine since I have wanted to have at least a pot of that. Long blooming Spiloxene serrata is still blooming and odd Spiloxene capensis as well. The pink ones seemed to bloom before the white ones. Fritillaria davisii is blooming and I have some other Frits. in bud. The first Ferraria crispa opened this week and drum roll the Scadoxus puniceus I got in Pasadena many years ago at the IBS meeting that had not bloomed before. The Tecophilaeas are finishing and it was my best year for them. Perhaps they liked the dry January? And the tulips are starting, Tulipa turkestanica, Tulipa fosteriana, and even a Darwin hybrid. In my greenhouse Canarina canariensis is blooming and Tropaeolum brachycercas. The latter had been dormant for a couple of years so was thrilled it showed up this year. Cyrtanthus mackenii blooms off and on, mostly on, all year and is blooming now and Cyrtanthus brachyschaphus is starting. Several pots of Phaedranassa have buds about to open. So why am I inside in front of a computer I ask myself. Happy Spring! Mary Sue From voltaire@islandnet.com Sat Mar 10 12:37:41 2007 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: What's blooming now Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 09:37:27 -0800 Mary Sue Ittner wrote: So why am I inside in front of a computer I ask myself. =================== Mary Sue, I am astounded at how many bulbs you have in bloom. Your list gives me something to aim for, so thank you for doing all that keyboarding. I've just had a time-saving thought for you, though. If you barcode your pots, you can just swipe the barcodes and won't have to do a lot of typing next time. Diane Whitehead From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Mar 10 13:05:50 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20070310100428.02eb3c98@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: What's blooming now Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 10:08:32 -0800 I'm not going to append a list of what's blooming now, because we've had a few days with temperatures rising into the 60s F, and several hundred species are open in the bulb frames. I'll be out giving them their second spring feed today, in between rainstorms. In the garden the smaller daffodils are open, many crocuses, and species peonies and magnolias showing their first color. Helleborus thibetanus flowered well these past few weeks, growing in a raised bed, shaded in the afternoon, along with many species peonies. All the early shrubs are coming into bloom, such as Corylopsis, a wonderful companion for bulbs that tolerate summer shade, since it has a "light" deciduous habit. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From voltaire@islandnet.com Sat Mar 10 16:21:54 2007 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Tropical African Gladiolus Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 13:21:27 -0800 Silverhill sometimes lists seeds from tropical areas. For instance, in 2002 and 2003, they listed G. melleri and a couple of unidentified sp from central Zambia and Zimbabwe. Diane Whitehead From agoston.janos@citromail.hu Sat Mar 10 16:47:53 2007 Message-Id: <002401c7635d$9f8aa380$0d4afea9@gzw1jo1xwad0ctx> From: "Agoston Janos" Subject: snails & slugs Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 22:46:55 +0100 Hi All again! I'm now fighting with snails and slugs. Here if I let bulbs in the clay slugs go down to the bulb as leaves turn yellow and snack on them in the whole summer killing a lots of valuable bulbs for me. There are some desiccant mollusticides here, but as a rain comes slugs are rehydrating and slipping towards to eat someting new. Does anybody have some really good method to get rid of them, please? Bye, Jani Z5a From coffeecamp@optusnet.com.au Sun Mar 11 15:32:41 2007 Message-Id: <004e01c7641c$676913f0$a20ca4cb@geoff2abba5c65> From: "Coffee Camp" Subject: snails & slugs Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 07:32:33 +1100 Hi Jani, A cheap, organic method of combating slugs and snails is to bury tin cans or other suitable containers up to their rim around the plants. Fill the containers with beer. A roof of some kind may be placed over the containers to stop rain or reduce evaporation. The snails/slugs are attracted by the smell of the beer and imbibe, fall in and drown or may be die of alcoholic poisoning. Another organic method is to keep ducks. There's no danger of pets, children, birds or animals being poisoned using these methods nor are poisons leached into the soil/environment. Geoff Barnier Sub-tropical NSW rainforests, Australia - Z10 > I'm now fighting with snails and slugs...Does anybody have some really good method to get rid of them, please? From voltaire@islandnet.com Sun Mar 11 16:08:18 2007 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: snails & slugs Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 14:08:01 -0700 Coffee Camp wrote: Another organic method is to keep ducks. =================================== I've had great amusement and joy from free-ranging ducks. Such exuberant creatures. I didn't take note as to whether they ate slugs, but they sure ate a lot of other stuff: all my peas, raspberries . . . . Diane Whitehead From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Mar 11 15:39:01 2007 Message-Id: <45F476F0.5000106@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: snails & slugs Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:38:56 -0500 I have success with copper foil collars around plants or around the rims of the potted bulbs. Arnold New Jersey From terryf@activ8.net.au Sun Mar 11 16:53:13 2007 Message-Id: <005c01c76427$a6661ac0$0305a8c0@pc118464033c09> From: "Terry Frewin" Subject: snails & slubs Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 08:53:00 +1100 Haven't tried this as yet, but i've had advice that a solution of instant coffee works well, see link here http://www.lensgarden.com.au/hintsNtips.htm Terry From gardenstreet184@yahoo.com Mon Mar 12 01:33:44 2007 Message-Id: <351117.57932.qm@web36409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "C.J. Teevan" Subject: snails & slugs Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:33:43 -0700 (PDT) I can tell you all about Snails and Slugs. Diatomaceous Earth is a pain in the neck but it's very effective. You have to re-apply every time it rains, or if you get the stuff wet. But it works. Coffee Grounds, which are now available from Starbucks for Free at some locations, to my surprise also works. I applied all over my garden last summer -- any time something's free, I tend to go a little nuts, but I had ready they attract earthworms while also amending the soil. Then I found that the slugs would attack any Oriental Lilies right up the stem that were not surrounded with these used Coffee Grounds but if I put down Coffee Grounds the next day, no problem. I have not tried the Instant Coffee Method. But you have to buy that. These Coffee Grounds are F R E E FREE! The copper collar also works but you have to keep it clean. At least it's reusable. Apparently the goo on the slug reacts with the copper and they get an electric shock. But my most favorite solution of all time (which I do not have any control over yet): Fireflies. I have just learned quite by accident that Firefly Larvae LOVE to eat Slugs. I had intended to buy some of these because I don't really know if I'll have that many next summer. Clearly, I don't, or I would not have this problem. It is however important to know what the Firefly Beetles look like and the larvae as well. That way you don't kill the ones you do have. The beer can solution has never worked for me. I personally dislike the taste of beer, but I went out and purchased a six pack of Budweiser for this very purposes. I have several thousand slugs up and down my driveway crawling all over the Hostas there. I am not kidding -- several thousand. I know because I started hand picking them, out of desperation, and I would count them. I was totally determined to win this slugfest. When I spent a week pulling 500 a night off the leaves, and there was no end in sight, I decided I would have to find a better way. Meantime, I learned that Slugs actually do have their place in the garden. I let them have the Hostas in the driveway and they can crawl all over the grass. They are extremely effective at digesting certain kinds of organic matter and a few other things that make them worth having around. I just don't want them crawling all over the flowers. Garter snakes and certain frogs also enjoy eating them. Of course this is much more difficult and I don't know if even they could keep up with my thousands of Slugs population. I have also heard that chickens work. Oh... there is another Slug predator, a Snail called a Decollete (sp?) snail. It devours Slugs with a smile. Unfortunately, they will also eat the rest of the garden, so don't even bother with those, because once they've moved in, you're in real trouble. Finally... something I really know! Agoston Janos wrote: Hi All again! I'm now fighting with snails and slugs. Here if I let bulbs in the clay slugs go down to the bulb as leaves turn yellow and snack on them in the whole summer killing a lots of valuable bulbs for me. There are some desiccant mollusticides here, but as a rain comes slugs are rehydrating and slipping towards to eat someting new. Does anybody have some really good method to get rid of them, please? Bye, Jani Z5a _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. From zigur@hotmail.com Mon Mar 12 01:53:18 2007 Message-Id: From: "Tim Harvey" Subject: snails & slugs Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:53:14 -0800 I have to disagree with your conclusions regarding decollate snails. When I still had 'standard' Californian plantings of Agapanthus and other mesic, leafy plants, the decollates really tore into the regular snail population. As I progressively xeriscaped my garden, the decollates died out. They were never a problem to the garden plants. Tim in SoCal >From: "C.J. Teevan" >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: Re: [pbs] snails & slugs >Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:33:43 -0700 (PDT) > >I can tell you all about Snails and Slugs. > >Diatomaceous Earth is a pain in the neck but it's very effective. You have >to re-apply every time it rains, or if you get the stuff wet. But it >works. > >Coffee Grounds, which are now available from Starbucks for Free at some >locations, to my surprise also works. I applied all over my garden last >summer -- any time something's free, I tend to go a little nuts, but I had >ready they attract earthworms while also amending the soil. Then I found >that the slugs would attack any Oriental Lilies right up the stem that were >not surrounded with these used Coffee Grounds but if I put down Coffee >Grounds the next day, no problem. > >I have not tried the Instant Coffee Method. But you have to buy that. >These Coffee Grounds are F R E E FREE! > >The copper collar also works but you have to keep it clean. At least it's >reusable. Apparently the goo on the slug reacts with the copper and they >get an electric shock. > >But my most favorite solution of all time (which I do not have any control >over yet): Fireflies. > >I have just learned quite by accident that Firefly Larvae LOVE to eat >Slugs. > >I had intended to buy some of these because I don't really know if I'll >have that many next summer. Clearly, I don't, or I would not have this >problem. It is however important to know what the Firefly Beetles look >like and the larvae as well. That way you don't kill the ones you do have. > >The beer can solution has never worked for me. I personally dislike the >taste of beer, but I went out and purchased a six pack of Budweiser for >this very purposes. I have several thousand slugs up and down my driveway >crawling all over the Hostas there. I am not kidding -- several thousand. >I know because I started hand picking them, out of desperation, and I would >count them. I was totally determined to win this slugfest. When I spent a >week pulling 500 a night off the leaves, and there was no end in sight, I >decided I would have to find a better way. > >Meantime, I learned that Slugs actually do have their place in the garden. >I let them have the Hostas in the driveway and they can crawl all over the >grass. They are extremely effective at digesting certain kinds of organic >matter and a few other things that make them worth having around. I just >don't want them crawling all over the flowers. > >Garter snakes and certain frogs also enjoy eating them. Of course this is >much more difficult and I don't know if even they could keep up with my >thousands of Slugs population. I have also heard that chickens work. > >Oh... there is another Slug predator, a Snail called a Decollete (sp?) >snail. It devours Slugs with a smile. Unfortunately, they will also eat >the rest of the garden, so don't even bother with those, because once >they've moved in, you're in real trouble. > >Finally... something I really know! > >Agoston Janos wrote: Hi All again! > >I'm now fighting with snails and slugs. Here if I let bulbs in the clay >slugs go down to the bulb as leaves turn yellow and snack on them in the >whole summer killing a lots of valuable bulbs for me. > >There are some desiccant mollusticides here, but as a rain comes slugs are >rehydrating and slipping towards to eat someting new. > >Does anybody have some really good method to get rid of them, please? > >Bye, >Jani Z5a >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > >--------------------------------- >Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate >in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From toadlily@olywa.net Mon Mar 12 02:26:40 2007 Message-Id: <45F500AD.6000709@olywa.net> From: Laura & Dave Subject: snails & slugs Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 00:26:37 -0700 Here in the wet, relative cool Norhwest of the USA, we have a number of imported slugs, and one native one. The native one (the banana slug) is well behaved and stays in the woods; the others are a scourge. What I've used for the past several years, with great success, is a commercial product that has iron phosphate as the active ingredient. Sluggo is the brand name available in our area; there are a.number of other brands. I start to apply the material in late winter, before the slug eggs have hatched. It does dissolve into the soil, but this takes a week or so, and remains effective until completely gone. I renew the material until warm weather arrives, and all the slugs have hatched, eaten a bit of Sluggo and gone off to that salad bowl in the sky. The summer and fall are mostly slug free, with a problem only with the odd slug that slimes its way in from the woods. During this time, I keep some of the material around the periphery of the beds. In the fall, I again treat the whole beds, in the hopes of offing any slugs present before they can lay eggs. This regime works well, and causes no environmental problems (manufactures' claims and personal observation). I'd keep the material out of the reach of chickens, but wild birds and animals appear to be smarter, and don't ingest it, even when in the same location as spilled bird seed. Hopefully helpful, Dave B, Tumwater, Washington, 7A (currently at the nozzle end of a "pineapple express") From Theladygardens@aol.com Mon Mar 12 02:48:06 2007 Message-Id: From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: snails & slugs & chickens Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 03:47:57 EDT Chickens are not smart enough not to eat sluggo and the sluggo does kill them. It's a really horrible death. Three of my chickens ate Sluggo. 1 died in a day, another a week later and the third didn't die for 3 weeks. I'm not sure how we determine that birds are smarter and won't eat it. My chickens were large healthy chickens. It makes me wonder how much it would take to kill a small bird or a lizard. If you read the fine print on the package it says to use a very small amount spread out thinly. Most people don't read anything on the package except the large print advertising on the front. I tried talking to people pushing Sluggo at a Nursery Trade Show and they didn't want to hear it. They just told me I shouldn't be feeding Sluggo to my chickens. Of course I didn't intentionally do that. I left a sealed bag laying in the garden for about 1/2 hour not realizing the chickens would peck through the bag and eat some. They could have eaten 1/2 to 1 cup between the 3 of them before I went back to get the bag and found them there. Carolyn


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Mon Mar 12 12:49:29 2007 Message-Id: <259F157E.B6C633EE@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: snails & slugs Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 16:49:29 -0000 Dear Jani: I understand your problem with snails and slugs. Way back when, we used to spread ashes from wood fires, and also when we had them, ashes from coal fires, around the plants being attacked. The ashes were not something the pests liked to slide over, so protection was given to the plants. The ashes were absorbed, over time, into the soil and this presented no problem. We also used grapefruit halves, still with some vestiges of the pulp inside and these were placed upside down on the soil. Small slugs would be found inside munching on the pu;p and were then disposed of. It worked, especially for the smaller slugs. You might try such things, after all, the cost was neglible! Cheers, John E. Bryan Agoston Janos wrote: > > Hi All again! > > I'm now fighting with snails and slugs. Here if I let bulbs in the clay slugs go down to the bulb as leaves turn yellow and snack on them in the whole summer killing a lots of valuable bulbs for me. > > There are some desiccant mollusticides here, but as a rain comes slugs are rehydrating and slipping towards to eat someting new. > > Does anybody have some really good method to get rid of them, please? > > Bye, > Jani Z5a > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From chadschroter@yahoo.com Mon Mar 12 13:36:15 2007 Message-Id: <762811.31712.qm@web56511.mail.re3.yahoo.com> From: Chad Schroter Subject: snails & slugs Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Another 'active' solution for slugs is to spray them with a mixture of water and ammonia. (1 part ammonia to 6 parts water) As long as the mixture is not too strong it should not burn your foliage. Avoid using ammonia made for cleaning which also contains soap and perfume. The ammonia strips the protective mucous layer from the slugs. Chad Schroter John Bryan wrote: Dear Jani: I understand your problem with snails and slugs. Way back when, we used to spread ashes from wood fires, and also when we had them, ashes from coal fires, around the plants being attacked. The ashes were not something the pests liked to slide over, so protection was given to the plants. The ashes were absorbed, over time, into the soil and this presented no problem. We also used grapefruit halves, still with some vestiges of the pulp inside and these were placed upside down on the soil. Small slugs would be found inside munching on the pu;p and were then disposed of. It worked, especially for the smaller slugs. You might try such things, after all, the cost was neglible! Cheers, John E. Bryan Agoston Janos wrote: > > Hi All again! > > I'm now fighting with snails and slugs. Here if I let bulbs in the clay slugs go down to the bulb as leaves turn yellow and snack on them in the whole summer killing a lots of valuable bulbs for me. > > There are some desiccant mollusticides here, but as a rain comes slugs are rehydrating and slipping towards to eat someting new. > > Does anybody have some really good method to get rid of them, please? > > Bye, > Jani Z5a > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --------------------------------- Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. From rdjenkins@bellsouth.net Mon Mar 12 14:06:03 2007 Message-Id: <003f01c764d1$14d45270$6101a8c0@JenkinsMachine> From: "rdjenkins" Subject: Hippeastrum miniatum Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:05:54 -0400 It is for me! Where can I get one? LOL. Robert. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Westfall" To: "PBS members" Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 2:57 PM Subject: [pbs] Hippeastrum miniatum > To all Hippeastrum collectors, > > Is Hippeastrum miniatum a desirable "item" for collectors? > > Doug Westfall > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Mar 12 14:17:39 2007 Message-Id: <000301c764d2$b65e6da0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Spring in Maryland Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:17:33 -0400 Spring is “officially” here in zone 7 Montgomery County, Maryland. Well, it’s here according to my criterion: the spring peepers (tiny frogs about the size of an almond) were in full chorus on March 9. Daytime temperatures had gone up well above 60º F. and there had been a long, slow rain – perfect conditions for a peeper chorus. Flocks of dozens of robins can be seen on local fields. And in the cold frame Fritillaria liliacea is blooming. The recent cold snap did a lot more damage in the open garden than I at first realized. Close examination of some newly opened reticulate irises shows lots of mechanical damage. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Paeonia tenuifolia has just poked up a bit. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From eagle85@flash.net Mon Mar 12 13:58:26 2007 Message-Id: <759FBB86-D0CB-11DB-B08B-00050277B6E6@flash.net> From: Doug Westfall Subject: Hippeastrum miniatum Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:57:00 -0800 To all Hippeastrum collectors, Is Hippeastrum miniatum a desirable "item" for collectors? Doug Westfall From dells@voicenet.com Mon Mar 12 15:38:41 2007 Message-Id: <20070312193840.ED1414C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Marvin Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 15:38:14 -0400 Sorry to post a general message of a private nature, but I am trying to contact PBS member Marvin Ellenbecker of Santa Ana, CA. The email address I have doesn't work. Marvin, if you are there, please respond! If anyone has a current email for him, kindly let me know. Best regards, Dell From Pat.Colville@JHResearchUSA.com Mon Mar 12 15:50:16 2007 Message-Id: <30909A06CD1CB64EA29DF0A811DF70C0649A2F@mvhmail3.USA.hardie.win> From: "Pat Colville" Subject: Marvin Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 12:52:39 -0700 The last address he gave us was mellenb@pacbell.net. This is probably the one you tried. He also has a phone listed at 714-667-3905 Patty Colville JHResearch USA, LLC 10901 Elm Avenue Fontana, CA 92337 (909) 349-2933 Fax (909) 427-0634 "THIS DOCUMENT IS INTENDED FOR THE USE OF THE PARTY TO WHOM IT IS ADDRESSED AND MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this document in error, please return it to the originator or notify the originator and ensure its destruction. Any dissemination or copying of this document and its attachments by anyone other than the addressees is strictly prohibited." -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dell Sherk Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 12:38 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: [pbs] Marvin Sorry to post a general message of a private nature, but I am trying to contact PBS member Marvin Ellenbecker of Santa Ana, CA. The email address I have doesn't work. Marvin, if you are there, please respond! If anyone has a current email for him, kindly let me know. Best regards, Dell _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From dells@voicenet.com Mon Mar 12 16:41:30 2007 Message-Id: <20070312204129.E3DFB4C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Marvin Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 16:41:04 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Pat Colville Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 3:53 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Marvin The last address he gave us was mellenb@pacbell.net. This is probably the one you tried. He also has a phone listed at 714-667-3905 Patty Colville JHResearch USA, LLC 10901 Elm Avenue Fontana, CA 92337 (909) 349-2933 Fax (909) 427-0634 "THIS DOCUMENT IS INTENDED FOR THE USE OF THE PARTY TO WHOM IT IS ADDRESSED AND MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this document in error, please return it to the originator or notify the originator and ensure its destruction. Any dissemination or copying of this document and its attachments by anyone other than the addressees is strictly prohibited." -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dell Sherk Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 12:38 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: [pbs] Marvin Sorry to post a general message of a private nature, but I am trying to contact PBS member Marvin Ellenbecker of Santa Ana, CA. The email address I have doesn't work. Marvin, if you are there, please respond! If anyone has a current email for him, kindly let me know. Best regards, Dell _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Mon Mar 12 16:08:06 2007 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: Hippeastrum miniatum Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:12:36 -0700 Me too. Linda Foulis From mellenbe@pacbell.net Mon Mar 12 20:29:25 2007 Message-Id: <539169.82174.qm@web82005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: mellenbe@pacbell.net Subject: Marvin Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 17:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Hi Dell, Got your message and in fact wanted to contact you regarding some bulbs I have. My email is still mellenbe@pacbell.net Thanks, Marvin test ----- Original Message ---- From: Dell Sherk To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 11:38:14 AM Subject: [pbs] Marvin Sorry to post a general message of a private nature, but I am trying to contact PBS member Marvin Ellenbecker of Santa Ana, CA. The email address I have doesn't work. Marvin, if you are there, please respond! If anyone has a current email for him, kindly let me know. Best regards, Dell _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From ron_redding@hotmail.com Mon Mar 12 20:58:17 2007 Message-Id: From: "Ronald Redding" Subject: Hippeastrum miniatum Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:58:13 +1000 Is Hippeastrum miniatum a desirable "item" for collectors? Doug You have asked a question that I have asked myself at the beginning of the year when I took a long hard look at what I would like to add to my collection. In this country there are many hybrids and I myself have an extensive collection of these and one or two worthy plants I have hybridised myself. There are also many hydrids that contain what appears a lot of miniatum in its breeding here and are often sold as common garden hybrids. I am after many different species as this is one area I am sadly very lacking in my collection. I do not have a species miniatum however it did not make my wish list. If one was available at a time I was about I would grab it however I am not actively seeking any. So in short, I believe it has its place in a collection however it probably would not be the most prized for mine. I hope this answers your question and I hope that I haven't upset anyone that holds a h. miniatum plant above all others as everyone has their own favourites. Kind Regards and Best Wishes Ron Redding Hervey Bay Australia _________________________________________________________________ Advertisement: yellow.com.au - Find what you need when you need it http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fadsfac%2Enet%2Flink%2Easp%3Fcc%3DPAS062%2E9345%2E0%26clk%3D1%26creativeID%3D57763&_t=761839555&_r=hotmail_email_taglines_1March07&_m=EXT From alanidae@gmail.com Tue Mar 13 00:09:01 2007 Message-Id: From: "Alani Davis" Subject: snails & slug Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 00:08:43 -0400 Gastropodicides There has been quite an array of responses to this thread, and I bet the solutions all work based on my understanding of chemistry and biology, but I wanted to bring up again one of the original responses = beer. There are several points about the beer method that are worth noting. These may vary with slug and snail species, but with the slugs of European origin that I was dealing with (sorry- don't know the species) this technique was exceptional. I used 4" plastic plant saucers with a .25-.5" (.5-1 cm) of beer (even lite or American beers work!) and with that small amount of beer that is a lot of saucers per can/bottle. What is so great about it, is that is attracts the slugs to it rather than needing to be broadcast, and though refreshing the beer and removing the dozen to thirty pickled slugs was a task and I did worry about drunk slug-eating birds..., I don't think there are any other negative environmental effects which is quite the bonus. Gardens are not natural environments in most cases, so unless the bulbs you like are from similar habits to those you live around, chances are native species are less likely to be affected unless they can adapted to your garden conditions. A selection of species though out the world are so adapted and many of these become "invasive exotic" pests of gardens, but this is an aside. Alani Davis Tallahassee, Florida From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Tue Mar 13 09:22:33 2007 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A06D0EDC8@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: snails & slug Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 08:22:32 -0500 Just a quick note. The term 'invasive' applies only to taxa that 'jump the fence' from cultivated gardens to natural habitats. They can range from non-native taxa to native taxa that are aggressively colonizing natural ecosystems for which they are not classified as native. Taxa that reseed, etc. about the garden are still considered to be simply weeds (unless you like them spreading about). Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel: 847-835-6841 fax: 847-835-1635 email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Alani Davis Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 11:09 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] snails & slug Gastropodicides There has been quite an array of responses to this thread, and I bet the solutions all work based on my understanding of chemistry and biology, but I wanted to bring up again one of the original responses = beer. There are several points about the beer method that are worth noting. These may vary with slug and snail species, but with the slugs of European origin that I was dealing with (sorry- don't know the species) this technique was exceptional. I used 4" plastic plant saucers with a .25-.5" (.5-1 cm) of beer (even lite or American beers work!) and with that small amount of beer that is a lot of saucers per can/bottle. What is so great about it, is that is attracts the slugs to it rather than needing to be broadcast, and though refreshing the beer and removing the dozen to thirty pickled slugs was a task and I did worry about drunk slug-eating birds..., I don't think there are any other negative environmental effects which is quite the bonus. Gardens are not natural environments in most cases, so unless the bulbs you like are from similar habits to those you live around, chances are native species are less likely to be affected unless they can adapted to your garden conditions. A selection of species though out the world are so adapted and many of these become "invasive exotic" pests of gardens, but this is an aside. Alani Davis Tallahassee, Florida _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Mar 13 09:48:33 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Leucojum vernum revisited Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 08:05:30 -0600 Dear friends; In early Jan we had a discussion here on Leucojum. I mentioned that the mild weather had already produced the hint of color within the emerging leaves of this species. Right after the temperatures 'went south' and then they were literally embedded in ice for 6 weeks. Now the melt has returned and today's forecast is for 78 F ! Within a period of hours these deeply enfolded buds have popped up and open and are emerging on flowering stems even as the open flowers. They were 'suspended' and ready for 2 months and now on a high speed catch up. Amazingly resilient. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From bonaventure@optonline.net Tue Mar 13 10:10:20 2007 Message-Id: From: bonaventure@optonline.net Subject: snails & slugs Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 14:10:05 +0000 (GMT) Hi Arnold, where do you get your copper foil or tape, what exit? [ ;-) ] Bonaventure in 'Jersey ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:38:56 -0500 From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Re: [pbs] snails & slugs To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <45F476F0.5000106@nj.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed I have success with copper foil collars around plants or around the rims of the potted bulbs. Arnold New Jersey From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Mar 13 10:18:16 2007 Message-Id: From: arnold@nj.rr.com Subject: snails & slugs Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:18:15 -0400 I did an Internet search and found a place that carried it. I can look on the box if I till have it when I get home. I found out later that most roofer supply shops would also carry it. It comes in different gauges from foil thin to sheet metal thick. I picked up the thicker for its durability and ability to stand up when I crafted a round collar around my Colchicums which the slug went for preferentially. From msittner@mcn.org Tue Mar 13 10:23:00 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20070313071942.03559d60@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki down Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 07:22:38 -0700 Hi, Ibiblio upgraded to the most recent php code this morning which is the code that runs our wiki and it appears that it is no longer working. At least I only get error messages when I have tried to access anything. So we will be trying to work with ibiblio to resolve this. I don't know how long it will take. Mary Sue From jglatt@hughes.net Tue Mar 13 10:35:23 2007 Message-Id: <45F6B6A5.205@hughes.net> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: Build a Better Slug Trap Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:35:17 -0400 I've found that slugs don't necessarily need micro-brew, import, American, or even lie beer. They are attracted to water with a spoonful of sugar and a pinch of yeast. Fermentation does it every time. Another technique if you want to safely use Sluggo or similar products. Birds and pets cannot get to the poison bait. Take an empty 2-liter plastic soda bottle. Cut it apart where the neck and shoulder flare out into a cylinder Invert the top and insert into cylinder, creating a funnel-like effect Staple together Pour a couple of tablespoons of slug pellets into container and lay it on its side in a slug-visited area Slugs will be attracted to the scent of the pellets and slimily climb their way in Not being Nature's intellectual giants, the slugs cannot figure out how to reverse direction and climb out When the container has done it's job, pick it up and toss into the trash. No fuss, no muss, no slime on your hands Judy in New Jersey, where winter is on the wane From B.J.M.Zonneveld@biology.leidenuniv.nl Tue Mar 13 10:36:13 2007 Message-Id: <8E19E8A2233ED74D8483ACF3FBB3603BBE05C0@iblmail.ibl.leidenuniv.nl> From: "B.J.M. Zonneveld" Subject: Leucojum aestivum Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:36:08 +0100 Here in the Netherlands with temps aproaching 17 C Leucojum aestivum is already in flower. It is supposed to be summer flowering, but it is never so late. From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Mar 13 10:34:09 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Iris anguifuga Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 09:33:57 -0600 Dear Friends - I'd like to draw you attention to a plant I have introduced into cultivation that bulb growers might find interesting. Iris City Gardens has introduced Iris anguifuga, a new species never available commercially before. read more about it here. http://www.iriscitygardens.com/newintroductions.html This species has been grown by Chinese herbalist for centuries, but never brought into cultivation until I collected a few plants in 1989 in Hangzhou, China. I was delighted to find it fully hardy in my Zone 5 garden where it's strange annual growth cycle seems to accommodate to my climate. My original plant has been vegetatively propagated and introduced under the fitting name of 'Snake Bane'. Because of its odd growth cycle it seems that it also completely thwarts the pesky iris borers. When borer eggs hatch after winter dormancy, the plants' foliage goes into its spring dormancy, thus denying young borer caterpillars a food source. Maybe it should be called 'Borer Bane' ! It has many characteristics that are unique in the genus. For bulb enthusiasts it has some strange under ground habits. At its peak of growth and bloom the plant has a dense semi-woody rhizome. A bit odd looking, but as the foliage goes dormant and over summer the rhizome shrinks back to the smaller terminal portion and just before new growth begins in fall, this underground part closely resembles a bulb-like form. This species suggest one way that illustrates the gradual pathway between the distinctly bulbous and distinctly rhizomatous iris species. The flower too shows some odd characteristics of both Siberian and Spuria irises, but is the only Iris species to have a single bract beneath the flower. While not a major garden 'show off', it is an iris with a distinct story all its own. Just FYI Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From donhackenberry@acsworld.com Tue Mar 13 11:46:40 2007 Message-Id: <001301c76586$f328aa20$2c584845@oemcomputer> From: "Don Hackenberry" Subject: Iris anguifuga Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:47:46 -0500 Dear Jim, I want to become a Chinese herbalist! I intend to get Iris anguifuga, but I don't want to keep snakes away, I like having them in the garden. Too bad the mice don't; I only wish they got hungry oftener. Now, how to say it kindly and gently: "This species has been grown by Chinese herbalist for centuries, but never brought into cultivation until..." That's what an English boy would say! I've said it myself. I've said I introduced Rosa achburensis to cultivation, when what I meant was I introduced it to cultivation outside Central Asia. I said it more accurately in letters and catalogues, but more loosely in conversation. E-mail is more like conversation. Best, Don From eagle85@flash.net Tue Mar 13 10:58:33 2007 Message-Id: <6DA3819A-D17B-11DB-9672-00050277B6E6@flash.net> From: Doug Westfall Subject: Hippeastrum miniatum Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 07:56:38 -0800 On Monday, March 12, 2007, at 04:58 PM, Ronald Redding wrote: > I hope that I haven't upset anyone that holds > a h. miniatum plant above all others as everyone has their own > favourites. > > > Kind Regards and Best Wishes > Ron Redding No problem to me. I was repotting and had several offsets. I thought that I'd see what the interest might be. I'll contact you later. Doug From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Mar 13 13:06:26 2007 Message-Id: <9A026B0E-0C00-4E0F-8B1E-964572E03E74@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: snails & slugs Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:06:10 -0700 How about copper coins? Empty your penny jar. Or perhaps they are an alloy and won't work the same as pure copper. Diane Whitehead From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Tue Mar 13 15:42:00 2007 Message-Id: <26961720.1173814905173.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: snails & slugs - copper foil source Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 14:41:44 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >where do you get your copper foil or tape, what exit? [ ;-) ] Copper foil in narrow widths is available from McMaster-Carr Industrial Supply at: http://www.mcmaster.com/ From idavide@sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 13 15:41:50 2007 Message-Id: <39576.47164.qm@web81012.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: snails & slugs Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 12:41:49 -0700 (PDT) where do you get your copper foil or tape, what exit? [ ;-) ] Bonaventure in 'Jersey I found copper tape selling at Orchard Supply. I should imagine Home Depot or any good gardening store would carry it. Well, in any place where snails are a problem. Here in California, snails are a problem. (Slugs, despite being disgusting are better behaved: they stay in the ivy.) From honeybunny442@yahoo.com Tue Mar 13 16:58:24 2007 Message-Id: <676673.25938.qm@web56105.mail.re3.yahoo.com> From: Susan B Subject: snails & slugs Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:58:23 -0700 (PDT) I never had much trouble with slugs in Wisconsin, probably because I grew full-sun plants. We recently relocated to TN, and while picking up sticks and wood today I came across an enormous slug- easily the size of my thumb! Now I knows what you folks be talkin' about!! Susan --------------------------------- Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. From agoston.janos@citromail.hu Tue Mar 13 20:39:34 2007 Message-Id: <111801c765d1$17d2f520$0d4afea9@gzw1jo1xwad0ctx> From: "Agoston Janos" Subject: snails & slugs Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 01:22:00 +0100 Hi, I was not available for a cuple of days so I reread... What is the scientific name of the Firefly? ----- Original Message ----- From: C.J. Teevan To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] snails & slugs I can tell you all about Snails and Slugs. Diatomaceous Earth is a pain in the neck but it's very effective. You have to re-apply every time it rains, or if you get the stuff wet. But it works. Coffee Grounds, which are now available from Starbucks for Free at some locations, to my surprise also works. I applied all over my garden last summer -- any time something's free, I tend to go a little nuts, but I had ready they attract earthworms while also amending the soil. Then I found that the slugs would attack any Oriental Lilies right up the stem that were not surrounded with these used Coffee Grounds but if I put down Coffee Grounds the next day, no problem. I have not tried the Instant Coffee Method. But you have to buy that. These Coffee Grounds are F R E E FREE! The copper collar also works but you have to keep it clean. At least it's reusable. Apparently the goo on the slug reacts with the copper and they get an electric shock. But my most favorite solution of all time (which I do not have any control over yet): Fireflies. I have just learned quite by accident that Firefly Larvae LOVE to eat Slugs. I had intended to buy some of these because I don't really know if I'll have that many next summer. Clearly, I don't, or I would not have this problem. It is however important to know what the Firefly Beetles look like and the larvae as well. That way you don't kill the ones you do have. The beer can solution has never worked for me. I personally dislike the taste of beer, but I went out and purchased a six pack of Budweiser for this very purposes. I have several thousand slugs up and down my driveway crawling all over the Hostas there. I am not kidding -- several thousand. I know because I started hand picking them, out of desperation, and I would count them. I was totally determined to win this slugfest. When I spent a week pulling 500 a night off the leaves, and there was no end in sight, I decided I would have to find a better way. Meantime, I learned that Slugs actually do have their place in the garden. I let them have the Hostas in the driveway and they can crawl all over the grass. They are extremely effective at digesting certain kinds of organic matter and a few other things that make them worth having around. I just don't want them crawling all over the flowers. Garter snakes and certain frogs also enjoy eating them. Of course this is much more difficult and I don't know if even they could keep up with my thousands of Slugs population. I have also heard that chickens work. Oh... there is another Slug predator, a Snail called a Decollete (sp?) snail. It devours Slugs with a smile. Unfortunately, they will also eat the rest of the garden, so don't even bother with those, because once they've moved in, you're in real trouble. Finally... something I really know! Agoston Janos wrote: Hi All again! I'm now fighting with snails and slugs. Here if I let bulbs in the clay slugs go down to the bulb as leaves turn yellow and snack on them in the whole summer killing a lots of valuable bulbs for me. There are some desiccant mollusticides here, but as a rain comes slugs are rehydrating and slipping towards to eat someting new. Does anybody have some really good method to get rid of them, please? Bye, Jani Z5a _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From agoston.janos@citromail.hu Tue Mar 13 20:53:36 2007 Message-Id: <114101c765d3$0ffecc50$0d4afea9@gzw1jo1xwad0ctx> From: "Agoston Janos" Subject: snails & slugs & chickens Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 01:52:38 +0100 Chickens must be smart, at least as slugs, because they allways eat the most treasured bulbs! Yes, I tried wood ash, Iris reticulata 'Purple Gem' is just as tasty as they find their way to them. Our snails are "miner" ones. They spend most of their tme in the soil, making routs in the clay, and they eat many things. Hey, not bad! I like citrus, so I try this method! Thank you John. For ammonia: We have a lots of NH4-NO3 fertilizer. I made a big hole in the garden for ferns and I get the ferms out of it and started to fitt it up with soil, but than I saw some slugs. I poured about 5 liter of this fertilizer right onto them, and than I covered it with soil and press it well (slugs were about 60 cm (2 feet) deep). 3 days later slugs came out of that place... But the slimey layer came down from them. But they remake it in 5 minutes... Now I only have to make an experiment which works here the best! I hope I'll run out of them sooner than the experiment ends... :) Anyway, thank you all for the posts! Bye, J ----- Original Message ----- From: Theladygardens@aol.com To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] snails & slugs & chickens Chickens are not smart enough not to eat sluggo and the sluggo does kill them. It's a really horrible death. Three of my chickens ate Sluggo. 1 died in a day, another a week later and the third didn't die for 3 weeks. I'm not sure how we determine that birds are smarter and won't eat it. My chickens were large healthy chickens. It makes me wonder how much it would take to kill a small bird or a lizard. If you read the fine print on the package it says to use a very small amount spread out thinly. Most people don't read anything on the package except the large print advertising on the front. I tried talking to people pushing Sluggo at a Nursery Trade Show and they didn't want to hear it. They just told me I shouldn't be feeding Sluggo to my chickens. Of course I didn't intentionally do that. I left a sealed bag laying in the garden for about 1/2 hour not realizing the chickens would peck through the bag and eat some. They could have eaten 1/2 to 1 cup between the 3 of them before I went back to get the bag and found them there. Carolyn


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From alanidae@gmail.com Tue Mar 13 21:12:09 2007 Message-Id: From: "Alani Davis" Subject: snails & slugs Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:12:06 -0400 Fireflies are members of the Lampyridae many in the genus *Photuris *which are neither bugs nor flies in the technical sense of these terms but beetles making them members of the most species rich families on this planet, the **Coleoptera - the beetles .... and not a one with a guitar... I never knew the extent of their benefits and since the adults do not feed, we should take their juveniles so much more seriously! Each flash could be the light of a dying slug! Alani Davis Tallahassee, Florida From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Mar 13 22:15:46 2007 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: snails & slugs Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 19:15:29 -0700 There is a slug that eats slugs. The Great Gray I think. Introduced (like all but one of our slugs) into the Pacific NW. Diane Whitehead From alanidae@gmail.com Tue Mar 13 22:54:40 2007 Message-Id: From: "Alani Davis" Subject: snails & slugs Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 22:54:39 -0400 Rules to survive by.... a predator (or parasite) shall not out survive the host.... No matter the context...we must survive to persist... On 3/13/07, Diane Whitehead wrote: > > There is a slug that eats slugs. The Great Gray I think. Introduced > (like all but one of our slugs) into the Pacific NW. > > > Diane Whitehead > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From carlobal@netzero.net Tue Mar 13 23:21:13 2007 Message-Id: <20070313.192003.15735.1333933@webmail30.lax.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.net" Subject: snails & slugs Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 03:19:40 GMT >Rules to survive by.... a predator (or parasite) shall not out survive >the host....No matter the context...we must survive to persist... In my lectures on alpine plants I always talk about the amazing adaptations they've made to survive in a harsh climate....I use the line: "Adapt or die." It always gets a laugh, but applies to every living thing, including our bulbs. Why else would they develop underground storage units, disappear for part of the year, pull themselves down with contractile roots? (Shall we go on....?) Carlo Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com From alanidae@gmail.com Tue Mar 13 23:37:21 2007 Message-Id: From: "Alani Davis" Subject: snails & slugs Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 23:37:18 -0400 Thanks for the reply It is subtle, but that is the level of MY "humor"/reality. So, glad to hear that you are of that thought as well, no matter the truth... On a level, appreciated or not, it is a TRUTH, whether we like it or not... I think we should analysize our "bad" habitats with the same "cold" blade to "find" the "truth", but I am but one view point among many on a social level in the end... Alpine habits are a great example of my thinking because of the extremes of stratification. I wish we all could so easily see the subtle renditions as easily Thanks for the response Carlo Alani On 3/13/07, carlobal@netzero.net wrote: > > >Rules to survive by.... a predator (or parasite) shall not out survive > >the host....No matter the context...we must survive to persist... > > In my lectures on alpine plants I always talk about the amazing > adaptations they've made to survive in a harsh climate....I use the line: > > "Adapt or die." > > It always gets a laugh, but applies to every living thing, including > our bulbs. Why else would they develop underground storage units, > disappear for part of the year, pull themselves down with contractile > roots? (Shall we go on....?) > > Carlo > > > Carlo A. Balistrieri > The Gardens at Turtle Point > Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 > Zone 6 (845.351.2049) > Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From gardenstreet184@yahoo.com Wed Mar 14 02:22:01 2007 Message-Id: <281856.65023.qm@web36405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "C.J. Teevan" Subject: snails & slugs Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 23:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Where would you buy ammonia that is not used for cleaning? Can I just use one of the newer unscented badsmelling ammonia brands? This would work to a point but I worry it would also injure nocturnal slug predators, like beetles and those aforementioned killer firefly larvae ("gloworms"?). And lifting the leaf of every Hosta in the driveway to reach the slugs... Chad Schroter wrote: Another 'active' solution for slugs is to spray them with a mixture of water and ammonia. (1 part ammonia to 6 parts water) As long as the mixture is not too strong it should not burn your foliage. Avoid using ammonia made for cleaning which also contains soap and perfume. The ammonia strips the protective mucous layer from the slugs. Chad Schroter John Bryan wrote: Dear Jani: I understand your problem with snails and slugs. Way back when, we used to spread ashes from wood fires, and also when we had them, ashes from coal fires, around the plants being attacked. The ashes were not something the pests liked to slide over, so protection was given to the plants. The ashes were absorbed, over time, into the soil and this presented no problem. We also used grapefruit halves, still with some vestiges of the pulp inside and these were placed upside down on the soil. Small slugs would be found inside munching on the pu;p and were then disposed of. It worked, especially for the smaller slugs. You might try such things, after all, the cost was neglible! Cheers, John E. Bryan Agoston Janos wrote: > > Hi All again! > > I'm now fighting with snails and slugs. Here if I let bulbs in the clay slugs go down to the bulb as leaves turn yellow and snack on them in the whole summer killing a lots of valuable bulbs for me. > > There are some desiccant mollusticides here, but as a rain comes slugs are rehydrating and slipping towards to eat someting new. > > Does anybody have some really good method to get rid of them, please? > > Bye, > Jani Z5a > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --------------------------------- Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --------------------------------- TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. From gardenstreet184@yahoo.com Wed Mar 14 02:32:59 2007 Message-Id: <842588.48055.qm@web36409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "C.J. Teevan" Subject: snails & slugs Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 23:32:58 -0700 (PDT) That's great to know. I'll have to find out where I read this and check back w/ you. Tim Harvey wrote: I have to disagree with your conclusions regarding decollate snails. When I still had 'standard' Californian plantings of Agapanthus and other mesic, leafy plants, the decollates really tore into the regular snail population. As I progressively xeriscaped my garden, the decollates died out. They were never a problem to the garden plants. Tim in SoCal >From: "C.J. Teevan" >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: Re: [pbs] snails & slugs >Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:33:43 -0700 (PDT) > >I can tell you all about Snails and Slugs. > >Diatomaceous Earth is a pain in the neck but it's very effective. You have >to re-apply every time it rains, or if you get the stuff wet. But it >works. > >Coffee Grounds, which are now available from Starbucks for Free at some >locations, to my surprise also works. I applied all over my garden last >summer -- any time something's free, I tend to go a little nuts, but I had >ready they attract earthworms while also amending the soil. Then I found >that the slugs would attack any Oriental Lilies right up the stem that were >not surrounded with these used Coffee Grounds but if I put down Coffee >Grounds the next day, no problem. > >I have not tried the Instant Coffee Method. But you have to buy that. >These Coffee Grounds are F R E E FREE! > >The copper collar also works but you have to keep it clean. At least it's >reusable. Apparently the goo on the slug reacts with the copper and they >get an electric shock. > >But my most favorite solution of all time (which I do not have any control >over yet): Fireflies. > >I have just learned quite by accident that Firefly Larvae LOVE to eat >Slugs. > >I had intended to buy some of these because I don't really know if I'll >have that many next summer. Clearly, I don't, or I would not have this >problem. It is however important to know what the Firefly Beetles look >like and the larvae as well. That way you don't kill the ones you do have. > >The beer can solution has never worked for me. I personally dislike the >taste of beer, but I went out and purchased a six pack of Budweiser for >this very purposes. I have several thousand slugs up and down my driveway >crawling all over the Hostas there. I am not kidding -- several thousand. >I know because I started hand picking them, out of desperation, and I would >count them. I was totally determined to win this slugfest. When I spent a >week pulling 500 a night off the leaves, and there was no end in sight, I >decided I would have to find a better way. > >Meantime, I learned that Slugs actually do have their place in the garden. >I let them have the Hostas in the driveway and they can crawl all over the >grass. They are extremely effective at digesting certain kinds of organic >matter and a few other things that make them worth having around. I just >don't want them crawling all over the flowers. > >Garter snakes and certain frogs also enjoy eating them. Of course this is >much more difficult and I don't know if even they could keep up with my >thousands of Slugs population. I have also heard that chickens work. > >Oh... there is another Slug predator, a Snail called a Decollete (sp?) >snail. It devours Slugs with a smile. Unfortunately, they will also eat >the rest of the garden, so don't even bother with those, because once >they've moved in, you're in real trouble. > >Finally... something I really know! > >Agoston Janos wrote: Hi All again! > >I'm now fighting with snails and slugs. Here if I let bulbs in the clay >slugs go down to the bulb as leaves turn yellow and snack on them in the >whole summer killing a lots of valuable bulbs for me. > >There are some desiccant mollusticides here, but as a rain comes slugs are >rehydrating and slipping towards to eat someting new. > >Does anybody have some really good method to get rid of them, please? > >Bye, >Jani Z5a >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > >--------------------------------- >Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate >in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --------------------------------- Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. From coffeecamp@optusnet.com.au Wed Mar 14 03:04:20 2007 Message-Id: <001401c76606$f92aff10$080da4cb@geoff2abba5c65> From: "Coffee Camp" Subject: snails & slugs: natural pest management Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 17:48:14 +1100 I looked in my copy of Australian Organic Gardening Resource Guide (www.greenharvest.com.au) to see what they say about natural pest management for snails & slugs: "there is worldwide research to show that copper, an essential soil micronutrient, is an excellent repellent for slugs & snails.... Trials in the USA have shown copper banding out performed all other methods for protection from slugs & snails. Copper is a repellent as it causes a reaction similar to an electric shock when the pest makes contact with it." They sell by mail order Slug Stoppa Tape, 3m long x 2.7cm wide with an adhesive back. Or a spray called Slug It which creates a copper barrier lasting months without washing off in 750ml spray packs. I wonder, however, since copper is a repellent and not a gastropodicide, where do all the slugs & snails go? Next door? Or just create more of the same problems in another part of the garden... I'd also enhance biological control by encouraging natural enemies eg lizards, birds, frogs, toads if possible. I have many of these predators including snakes and only have a few native snails which do not cause any problems. Anything I bring onto the property which could harbour a pest, I inspect & treat & sometimes quarantine. There is an organically certified, environmentally friendly, effective snail & bait killer called Multiguard Slug & Snail Pellets by Multicrop. The active ingredient is iron EDTA complex which is so benign that it is used in foodstuffs. It breaks down to a soil nutrient that won't harm earthworms & does not contain toxic methiocarb or metaldehyde. Beer slug & snail traps are available in many hardware stores & nurseries. It's advantages are it's safe, effective & reusable - something we should all do more about. It's also useful for earwigs if baited with soy sauce & a thin layer of vegetable oil. Geoff in sub-tropical NSW, AU. From jglatt@hughes.net Wed Mar 14 09:00:27 2007 Message-Id: <45F7F1E8.7000700@hughes.net> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: Somewhat Homeopathic Slug Control Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:00:24 -0400 I had this friend . . . Collect slugs. Smoosh up in a blender. Thin the sludge with water and a little unscented ammonia. Sprinkle around. Her claim was that the remaining slugs are repelled by the shredded remains. She also swore she bought the extra blender at a yard sale. For that matter, I've heard that if you eat a nice venison dinner, wait a few hours and then go urinate around the garden the rest of the deer think a deer-eating predator is in the neighborhood. Do Not confuse these two techniques! Judy in New Jersey From arnold@nj.rr.com Wed Mar 14 09:28:59 2007 Message-Id: From: arnold@nj.rr.com Subject: Somewhat Homeopathic Slug Control Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:28:58 -0400 Well Judy: How about a nice helping of escargot with garlic and then follow the venison routine! Arnold From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Mar 14 10:36:41 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Ungernia Summary Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 08:18:28 -0600 Dear Friends - As promised here's the English Summary from: Zum Bauplan von Ungernia der einzigen endemischen Amaryllidaceen -Gattung Zentralasiens. ( The Structure of Ungernia, the only endemic Amaryllid genus of Central Asia.) by Dietrich and Ute Mueller-Doblies, Bot. Jahrb. Syst. 99(2/3) : 240-263 p 262-263 Summary Ungernia tadschicorum and U. trisphaera show a characteristic sequence of leaves which is unique among the 32 hitherto studied genera of Amaryllidoideae: the first leaf of the main innovation bud is reduced to two minute adaxial scales, the second one is half sheathing foliage leaf, and the following ones may be wholly amplexicaul, but the 3rd to 5th leaf may also have an open base, the last but one is an open foliage leaf and the uppermost is a half embracing scale leaf. When in July/August Ungernja tadschicorum js flowering without leaves, the uppermost leaves of the blooming generation and the lower ones of the following shoot generation are waiting for development in next spring. The flowering scape is thus preceding its own foliage leaves (precursive =praecurrent) and that for one vegetation period, which means proleptic behaviour. Among. Amaryllids this type of periodicity is ondy known to us from Sternbergia macrantha. There is only one scape flowering per year (annual innovation) and the Induction probably takes place in late summer. The morphologic results support the recent separation of the tribe Lycorideae Taub from the Amaryllideae, as these differ in three of the four main characters of bulb morphology, So now you know. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From JFlintoff@aol.com Wed Mar 14 10:27:38 2007 Message-Id: <8C9345C00BE1007-1E80-3052@MBLK-M25.sysops.aol.com> From: jflintoff@aol.com Subject: Somewhat Homeopathic Slug Control Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 10:27:17 -0400 Judy Even minute amounts of ammonia will kill slugs. I would expect they might be repelled by the scent. Here human urine has no effect on deer; a 7 foot high fence solved that problem for me. Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washington,USA Zone 8 ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From tglavich@sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 14 10:30:22 2007 Message-Id: <207650.44077.qm@web82901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Thomas Glavich Subject: snails & slugs Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 07:30:20 -0700 (PDT) I have found that going out around 9 at night with a plastic bag and flashlight is a great way to find and remove both slugs and snails, particularly if it is damp and a little foggy. You can pick them up. They are not poisonous, they won't bite back. Slugs are just a little bit slimy, and then only on the bottom. Just pick them up (bare fingers work just great!), put them in the plastic bag, and when you are done, tie a not and throw it in the trash. If you do this regularly for a week or two, no poisons, no no chemicals, no grapefruit, hardly any slugs or snails. The slime washes off easily with any soap. The second night is easier than the first. It is a real organic solution. Tom ----- Original Message ---- From: C.J. Teevan To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 11:32:58 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] snails & slugs That's great to know. I'll have to find out where I read this and check back w/ you. Tim Harvey wrote: I have to disagree with your conclusions regarding decollate snails. When I still had 'standard' Californian plantings of Agapanthus and other mesic, leafy plants, the decollates really tore into the regular snail population. As I progressively xeriscaped my garden, the decollates died out. They were never a problem to the garden plants. Tim in SoCal >From: "C.J. Teevan" >Reply-To: Pacific Bulb Society >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: Re: [pbs] snails & slugs >Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:33:43 -0700 (PDT) > >I can tell you all about Snails and Slugs. > >Diatomaceous Earth is a pain in the neck but it's very effective. You have >to re-apply every time it rains, or if you get the stuff wet. But it >works. > >Coffee Grounds, which are now available from Starbucks for Free at some >locations, to my surprise also works. I applied all over my garden last >summer -- any time something's free, I tend to go a little nuts, but I had >ready they attract earthworms while also amending the soil. Then I found >that the slugs would attack any Oriental Lilies right up the stem that were >not surrounded with these used Coffee Grounds but if I put down Coffee >Grounds the next day, no problem. > >I have not tried the Instant Coffee Method. But you have to buy that. >These Coffee Grounds are F R E E FREE! > >The copper collar also works but you have to keep it clean. At least it's >reusable. Apparently the goo on the slug reacts with the copper and they >get an electric shock. > >But my most favorite solution of all time (which I do not have any control >over yet): Fireflies. > >I have just learned quite by accident that Firefly Larvae LOVE to eat >Slugs. > >I had intended to buy some of these because I don't really know if I'll >have that many next summer. Clearly, I don't, or I would not have this >problem. It is however important to know what the Firefly Beetles look >like and the larvae as well. That way you don't kill the ones you do have. > >The beer can solution has never worked for me. I personally dislike the >taste of beer, but I went out and purchased a six pack of Budweiser for >this very purposes. I have several thousand slugs up and down my driveway >crawling all over the Hostas there. I am not kidding -- several thousand. >I know because I started hand picking them, out of desperation, and I would >count them. I was totally determined to win this slugfest. When I spent a >week pulling 500 a night off the leaves, and there was no end in sight, I >decided I would have to find a better way. > >Meantime, I learned that Slugs actually do have their place in the garden. >I let them have the Hostas in the driveway and they can crawl all over the >grass. They are extremely effective at digesting certain kinds of organic >matter and a few other things that make them worth having around. I just >don't want them crawling all over the flowers. > >Garter snakes and certain frogs also enjoy eating them. Of course this is >much more difficult and I don't know if even they could keep up with my >thousands of Slugs population. I have also heard that chickens work. > >Oh... there is another Slug predator, a Snail called a Decollete (sp?) >snail. It devours Slugs with a smile. Unfortunately, they will also eat >the rest of the garden, so don't even bother with those, because once >they've moved in, you're in real trouble. > >Finally... something I really know! > >Agoston Janos wrote: Hi All again! > >I'm now fighting with snails and slugs. Here if I let bulbs in the clay >slugs go down to the bulb as leaves turn yellow and snack on them in the >whole summer killing a lots of valuable bulbs for me. > >There are some desiccant mollusticides here, but as a rain comes slugs are >rehydrating and slipping towards to eat someting new. > >Does anybody have some really good method to get rid of them, please? > >Bye, >Jani Z5a >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > >--------------------------------- >Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate >in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --------------------------------- Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From Theladygardens@aol.com Wed Mar 14 12:21:47 2007 Message-Id: From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Somewhat Homeopathic Slug Control Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 12:21:37 EDT You are so funny! Carolyn in Los Gatos


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From totototo@telus.net Wed Mar 14 13:21:13 2007 Message-Id: <20070314172028.E6XQWNBNF1@priv-edmwaa05.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: snails & slugs Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 10:19:46 -0700 On 14 Mar 07, at 7:30, Thomas Glavich wrote: > I have found that going out around 9 at night with a plastic bag and > flashlight is a great way to find and remove both slugs and snails, > particularly if it is damp and a little foggy. You can pick them up. > They are not poisonous, they won't bite back. Slugs are just a little > bit slimy, and then only on the bottom. Just pick them up (bare > fingers work just great!), put them in the plastic bag, and when you > are done, tie a not and throw it in the trash. If you do this > regularly for a week or two, no poisons, no no chemicals, no > grapefruit, hardly any slugs or snails. The slime washes off easily > with any soap. The second night is easier than the first. It is a > real organic solution. Handpicking is actually a very good way of controlling macro-pests. Nighttime is usually the best time because so many are active then that are in hiding during daylight. Not only slugs and snails, but climbing cutworms (which can be very destructive to foliage) and various weevils are suitable targets. My method is to take a plastic yogurt container, abt 750 ml capacity, half-fill it with water, add a few drops of dishwashing liquid, and drop the pests into it as I collect them. The detergent lowers the surface tension so the pests drown. When your collection container is getting full, just step into the house, flush the contents down the toilet, and refill the container with fresh water. I've read or been told, somewhere, sometime, that when you start handpicking pests nightly, you become a major predator of them and given time, their numbers will decline. However, the figure "in five years" was quoted for slugs, so you must be very patient and persistent. Climbing cutworms I find to be present in fairly limited numbers, and the infestations are quite localized, so they are much easier to bring under control. A week of careful nightly picking will eliminate most of them. They cause a characteristic damage to foliage, so it's easy to spot the areas needing attention during a daytime stroll around your garden. I keep an eye on my erythroniums, to which cutworms seem be esp. partial. Weevils (admittedly not a serious pest of bulbs) seem to be present in such vast numbers that all I get out of their destruction is a sense of malicious satisfaction. I don't bother with the soapy water technique, preferring to crush them with my fingers; they give a quite noticeable pop or snap when crushed. Color me vindictive. Finally, slug slime control on fingers: buy a box of disposable vinyl gloves and wear then while slug-picking. Result, clean tootsies afterwards. Vinyl, not rubber latex, because vinyl won't trigger development of a sensitivity to latex. A final but important technique for organic control of pests is to not keep your garden too tidy. I mulch heavily with leaves in the fall, and this seems to encourage all sorts of predators, from birds down. In consequence, though I live in a low, damp, soggy location, I have very little damage from slugs and snails. Somewhat overgrown thickets of shrubs also encourage birds. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@telus.net Wed Mar 14 13:21:52 2007 Message-Id: <20070314172113.B6KKULEK4A@priv-edmwaa05.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: snails & slugs Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 10:19:46 -0700 On 13 Mar 07, at 13:58, Susan B wrote: > I never had much trouble with slugs in Wisconsin, probably because I > grew full-sun plants. We recently relocated to TN, and while picking > up sticks and wood today I came across an enormous slug- easily the > size of my thumb! > > Now I knows what you folks be talkin' about!! That enormous slug you found may be quite innocuous. It's not until you've found some treasure mowed down to the ground by a voracious mollusk that you fully experience slug-woe or mollusc-angst. Some plants are far more easily damaged by s&s than others. Some are more attractive to the pests; others don't have much to them and even just a little mollouscoidal snacking causes inordinate harm — tecophilaea with its sparse foliage being an example. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From donhackenberry@acsworld.com Wed Mar 14 13:27:35 2007 Message-Id: <001f01c7665e$3ad14260$c8574845@oemcomputer> From: "Don Hackenberry" Subject: hurray! Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 12:28:48 -0500 Dear All, Eranthis pinnatifida is now in flower! It is so beautiful. Especially when you look closely at the fringes and the blue in the center. Is anyone successfully growing Eranthis stellata? So far I am a failure. Crocus abantensis-- the most beautiful blue of any Crocus I know of-- and alatavicus are in flower, too. C alatavicus is mostly white with fascinating feathering on the outside. And at long last, after just about everybody already has it in flower, so is Leucojum vernum v carpaticum. I so wish Ungernia were growable. Best, Don From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed Mar 14 14:16:55 2007 Message-Id: <000f01c76664$f7010370$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Maryland update Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:17:01 -0400 Last night, deer got into the garden and had their way with many plants. They took a big chomp out of the side of the huge Eremurus sprout which is the size of my fist and several inches out of the ground. They did not get the central portion of the sprout, so the inflorescence, if there is one, is probably safe. Since Eremurus are said not to be grazed in the wild, our local deer have some learning to do. Some clumping Dianthus were pulled out the ground completely and deposited on the neighbor's driveway. Emerging tulip foliage was cropped here and there. They came within a few feet of the protected coldframe. They ate some plants in another, unprotected cold frame out in the garden. Shibateranthis/Eranthis pinnatifida is not quite in bloom here yet. The flowers it had much earlier in the year disappeared; new ones seem to be coming up in their place. Eranthis hyemalis are nearing the end for this year and E. cilicica has not yet appeared. In the protected cold frame Dichelostemma capitatum has budded stems well on the way up. Narcissus of the romieuxii persuasion are blooming, as are Oxalis 'Garnet', Ornithogalum balansae and several Fritllaria including F. liliacea. A very beautiful seedling crocus has appeared in the lawn here. It's got the typical tommy colors and shape, but is much larger than tommies. And the contrast between the silvery outside and the very rich amethyst inside is very beautiful. Garden crocuses are also beginning to bloom. I like all of these very much. Leucojum vernum carpathicum opened here yesterday. That seems late to me. This growns in an unprotected site out in the garden. I went out and photographed Symplocarpus yesterday. Most of the spathes were a bit past their prime. I searched carefully for seeds, but found only two, both germinated. These plants grow in a flood plain and so the seeds probably get washed away quickly. Back in the garden, the Lysichiton are poking up, testing the waters - or in this case, air - I guess. Air temperatures today topped 80º F; the sun is uncomfortably hot on the skin today. Magnolia stellata has started to bloom again. Thundershowers are predicted for this afternoon with overnight lows in the 50s F. And snow showers are predicted for the weekend. So we're still on the roller coaster. Worst case scenario: it will fry the snowdrops today and freeze the magnolias this weekend. I’m seeing bees in numbers in the garden now for the first time in years. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the blue flowered Roman hyacinth is sweetly in bloom. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From leo@possi.org Wed Mar 14 15:47:54 2007 Message-Id: <45823.209.180.132.162.1173901668.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Somewhat Homeopathic Slug Control Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 12:47:48 -0700 (MST) > Here human urine has no effect on deer; a 7 foot high fence solved > that problem for me. Do you mean peeing over a 7 foot high fence repels deer? Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Mar 14 17:41:38 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20070314143519.00d77808@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Adaptable Juno irises Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:41:18 -0700 'Sindpers' is a Juno (Scorpiris) hybrid introduced in Holland in the 1890s. One of its parents is probably I. aucheri, but I. persica has now been discounted as the other. It's a stout, low plant notable for its profuse production of light blue flowers. I had grown it in my bulb frame for a dozen years or so, but two years ago I planted three divisions out in the rock garden atop a deep sand and gravel berm. To my surprise, they did well and are flowering beautifully just now, despite a rather rough winter with temperature fluctuations and a lot of rain and snow. I encourage anyone who has a stock of this plant and a summer-dry climate to try it outside. It seems to be doing as well here as some other adaptable Junos, such as I. magnifica and I. vicaria. I haven't managed to keep I. bucharica in the rock garden, but I think it's because the deer like to eat it so much rather than because it's hard to grow. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed Mar 14 18:14:26 2007 Message-Id: <002f01c76686$2598f320$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Adaptable Juno irises Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 18:14:32 -0400 Jane McGary described her success with Iris 'Sindpers'. This handsome cultivar is blooming here in the greater Washington, D.C. area now, too. Only today I got an email from one of my gardening friends who mentioned that the first flowers opened today for her (and as I recall, she got it from Jane). I no longer grow 'Sindpers', but about twenty-five years ago I bought one from an English dealer. It was the first "expensive" bulb I ever purchased, costing all of $10. Out in the garden, Crocus fleischeri is blooming now. The plant in the protected cold frame bloomed long ago. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Crocus imperati 'de Jager' has sent up a second flush of bloom. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From pandi_bear@bigpond.com Wed Mar 14 19:19:40 2007 Message-Id: <00a101c7668f$34925430$0100000a@Tiggy> From: "Carolyn Fra" Subject: snails & slugs Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:19:24 +1100 That's exactly what I do; I have to go outside with my two lil dogs anyway. Carolyn -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Glavich Sent: Thursday, 15 March 2007 1:30 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] snails & slugs I have found that going out around 9 at night with a plastic bag and flashlight is a great way to find and remove both slugs and snails, particularly if it is damp and a little foggy. You can pick them up. They are not poisonous, they won't bite back. Slugs are just a little bit slimy, and then only on the bottom. Just pick them up (bare fingers work just great!), put them in the plastic bag, and when you are done, tie a not and throw it in the trash. If you do this regularly for a week or two, no poisons, no no chemicals, no grapefruit, hardly any slugs or snails. The slime washes off easily with any soap. The second night is easier than the first. It is a real organic solution. Tom From gardenstreet184@yahoo.com Wed Mar 14 19:30:10 2007 Message-Id: <361677.93970.qm@web36404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "C.J. Teevan" Subject: Tulip mystery Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:30:08 -0700 (PDT) Since it is almost Tulip season here on Long Island, I wonder if you have any theories about a problem I have with them every year. I grow Tulips up and down my driveway. The first few years, bloomed beautifully. Then one year came along and I noticed one afternoon that all of the Tulips (perhaps 100) had been de-flowered at the tip of the stalks. The flowers were lieing next to the plant they had been from, on the ground. I thought this was the work of a jealous neighbor or a very crazy woman who lived nearby, with scissors, in the dark of night. So I planted as usual the next fall and the same thing happened the next year. By then the crazy woman had moved. Scratch her from the list of suspects. There seemed to be no sign of anything else. We have a racoon population -- would they do something like this? Do Slugs have the ability to cut a tulips bloom at the end of the stem? What about squirrels? Or is this actually the work of a psychopathic florapath or tulipophobe? I did not plant any Tulips after a while The ones on the other side of the house were largely undisturbed, although last year I seem to remember that there were some Tulips back there disfigured using the same modus operandi... Does this happen only to me? --------------------------------- TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Mar 14 19:34:26 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Some Misc. bulbs Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 18:27:04 -0600 Der All; Yesteday I noticed a couple buds on the Juno ,I. 'Sindpers' and today both are fully open in the unseasonably warm (and very welcome ) weather. Although I. aucheri is always the first Juno to produce foliage, it is never the first to flower. 'Sindpers' is a hybrid between I. "sindjarensis" x I "persica" (now. I., aucheri x I bucharica ?). I got my bulb from Jane McGary and recommend it as an easy Juno. Gorgeous blue color, too. Fritillaria persica is one of the easier Frits in my open garden. Of 4 bulbs planted around 4 or 5 years ago. One is a distinctive green color on emergence and has grown slowly to only 2 heads. The other three all have grey-green color on emergence ( all 3 from Hoog and Dix) . 1 of these now has 27 heads and is a small 'bush' in stature, Another has about 14 heads, the next has barely emerged to count heads and the fourth seems to have disappeared. Of course not all these multiple heads bloom and they may easily be prone to blind heads if there's a cold spell. Tulipa turkestanica has gone from nothing to foliage to buds and I wouldn't be surprised to see a flower before the day is over. These little beauties seem to run at double time. Later in the day- open and beaming. A bright magenta surprise reminds me that Cyclamen "caucasica" (possibly) has suddenly come to life again. Lots of smaller bulbs going berserk, but I admit a findness for all the tommies* especially those that self sow around. The season has begun and bulbs are eager to show their stuff. Hellebores are the garden stars now -maybe 600 of them! OK, a bit obsessive. Best Jim W. * Crocus tommasinianus -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From msittner@mcn.org Wed Mar 14 21:29:44 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20070314180908.03610008@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Administrative changes Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 18:29:09 -0700 Hi, Susan Hayek who has helped me a great deal with the list and the wiki for a number of years is no longer able to continue because of family needs and medical problems. She was a joy to work with, always willing, good at communicating, and very fast at accomplishing what she offered to do. She was eager to learn and to help and I will miss all her support. Diane Whitehead has agreed to assist Arnold and me as a list administrator. We are happy to have her help. Jay Yourch continues to provide a lot of good technical support for the wiki which is much needed. We now have an updated version of our wiki installed, but there is still a lot of fixing that he will need to do before it works and all the pages load and the approved users can edit and add pictures again. During our conversion to thumbnails Linda Foulis has been a big help as well. We are nearly done with that. Hopefully by some time tomorrow we will have the wiki operational again. All of these people are volunteers making a big contribution to this group. Mary Sue From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Mar 14 20:31:09 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Adaptable Juno irises Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 19:29:28 -0600 Dear Jane, Your coincidental remarks about 'Sindpers' allows me to extoll the virtues of 'easy' Junos here. I grow all mine outdoors year round in mostly raised beds. Although 'Sindpers' is a fairly recent addition, it supposed reverse 'Warlsind', has been here longer. It is somewhat less vigorous, and striking in flower. My most vigorous Junos must be I magnifica in various forms from "Alba' to "Agalik' and various seedlings. It multiplies fast and has in good years reached almost 30 inches in height. Some planted in a slightly protected spot have self sown and seedlings bloom regularly. Equally or more vigorous is I. willmottiae (willmottiana) or other horticultural names. A shorter plant with pure white flowers, I have had to dig and divide on a regular basis when it expands in on other plants. Although I bucharica was my first Juno, I cannot keep it in the garden, although there may still be a small clump 'out back'. I graeberiana in its various forms does OK, survives and blooms, but is not a fast multiplier. I have a few others, but these are definitely the most adaptable. Top of my wish list is I rosenbachiana. I just got a note from Panayoti Kelaidis that Denver BG has planted a small lawn of this species after they had such good luck with a larger 'lawn' of I bucharica. So it goes in Denver! I think Junos remain under appreciated and grown. I wish more were totally hardy here and I suspect the less vigorous ones are simply closer to the 'edge' of hardiness. Anyone else suggest some really hardy Junos.? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From JFlintoff@aol.com Wed Mar 14 21:53:32 2007 Message-Id: <8C934BBDB6F2A33-320-78CE@WEBMAIL-MC01.sysops.aol.com> From: jflintoff@aol.com Subject: Some Misc. bulbs Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:53:26 -0400 Jim Isn't Iris 'Sindpers' a cross of Iris aucheri (sindjarensis) with Iris galatica? The latter, a part of the Iris persica complex and once considered conspecific with that species, is responsible for the incredibly exquisite turquoise coloration of 'Sindpers' . Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washington,USA Zone 8 ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From donhackenberry@acsworld.com Wed Mar 14 23:14:34 2007 Message-Id: <000f01c766b0$3cad0e00$3c574845@oemcomputer> From: "Don Hackenberry" Subject: some misc bulbs Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 22:15:50 -0500 Don's birthday Dear Jim, Jerry, and All, Can't compare ease of growing among Juno species because I grow only one myself-- Iris magnifica. Went to Uzbekistan in 1980 and dug it up myself, near the road out of Samarkand to the Young Pioneer Camp. (Wish I had had a long career of doing just that in the rest of the world. Wish the plants I got from Chen Yi were ones I had gone there and fetched home myself. Would surely have Paeonia sterniana by now if I had.) Grow it in a dry sand bed and in dirt adjacent to it, but somehow accidentally moved a plant to the base of a Cryptomeria japonica, whose roots are shallow and soaker uppers. Kind of shady, but it likes it there! Jim, thank you very much for pointing out that Ungernia shows its kinship with Lycoris by forming flowers the year before and foliage two years before. You have an edge over us with Lycoris, and it just might put you over the top with Ungernia. I think the number of successful growers of Ungernia on this continent is no greater than the number in this group. It will be a significant achievement. Felt such a strong urge today to poke and prod and yes dig to see how my Lycoris "pink aurea" were doing. Didn't. They have no growth over winter. On the other hand, my L "anwheiense" (not) has foliage that stays remarkably green throughout winter, no need to dig to check on it. It's been quite a few years; it has yet to flower. Not that it isn't going to one of these years. Best, Don From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Mar 15 00:25:56 2007 Message-Id: <6FE949ED-4CAC-46FF-B014-8AD3E6E7A2E4@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Tulip mystery Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:21:19 -0700 Deer are what eat tulips at my house, but they do eat - no tricks about just nipping them off. Rats nip off hellebore flowers and cyclamen leaves and flowers in my greenhouse. They don't seem to do anything with them, as they remain lying beside the plant. A friend says her rats were storing her bitten-off hellebore flowers in one spot so she thought they were using them for nesting material. It seems that it is only potted plants in protected places that are attacked - the ones we were planning to put in a display or sell. The same plants in the garden aren't touched. Tulips are rather tall for rats, though I'm sure they could stand up on their hind legs to do it. Diane Whitehead From putman@pobox.upenn.edu Thu Mar 15 00:44:35 2007 Message-Id: <45F8CF1F.1010707@pobox.upenn.edu> From: Stephen Putman Subject: Tulip mystery Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 00:44:15 -0400 I'd bet on rabbits. They keep hoping they'll get one (a tulip) that tastes good. I've seen them do this to Siberian Iris and new growth on rose bushes, etc. When they get me sufficiently annoyed, they have an accident with small bits of rapidly moving lead. The rabbits do taste good. See Julia Child's "Lapin au sopiquet". Steve Putman There's been a rabbit in the garden the past few nights, and I'm getting on towards annoyed. From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Mar 15 00:19:27 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: 'Sindpers' Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 23:19:14 -0600 > Isn't Iris 'Sindpers' a cross of Iris aucheri (sindjarensis) with >Iris galatica? The latter, a part of the Iris persica complex and >once considered conspecific with that species, is responsible for >the incredibly exquisite turquoise coloration of 'Sindpers' . Dear Jerry; I think the parentage has been tossed around a bit. And I may have been making up 'bucharica'. Now that I think about it, it doesn't seem likely. But the blue cold certainly come from aucheri alone. Jane suggested I persica is not a parent. I haven't grown galatica. Does it seem likely? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jshaw@opuntiads.com Thu Mar 15 08:24:30 2007 Message-Id: <002301c766fc$f03b5340$6501a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: Snails Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 07:24:52 -0500 Not only slugs and snails, but climbing cutworms (which can be very destructive to foliage) and various weevils are suitable targets. +++++++++++++++ Hi Gang, I've enjoyed all the comments about snails and slugs; this is a clever group of folks. I do a lot of manual removal of pests; the idea of dropping them in a container of detergent/soap/beer/vinegar water is excellent. One reason that I manually remove pests is that I enjoy wildlife in my yard, especially birds. Too many pesticides and the birds are adversely affected. I confess I use imidacloprid on some plants, and myclobutanil as well. I just can't see adding mollusc poison to the garden to control snails. I don't seem to have exotic snails in my yard, but the native ones are pretty good eaters when they get going. The birds, or perhaps night visiting opossums, eat a lot of snails (something is eathing them). When I find snail eggs I make sure to destroy them. I wish there was a local bird that controlled scale and mealy bugs on potted plants. My Opuntia collection is a magnet for scale and mealies. Cordially, Joe Conroe TX--The redbuds have just finished blooming (or nearly so), and the Cherokee rose is just getting into full swing. The first Crinum have opened their flowers. Rosa gigantea is putting out a lot of vigorous growth, perhaps this is the year it will climb up a tree and give the Wisteria some company. Hippeastrum hybrids are putting out leaves quickly now; they tried in February but got hit by a frost. The wild Hymenocallis liriosme are in full bloom nearby, and Allium drummondii seems ready to put up flowers. From maxwithers@gmail.com Thu Mar 15 14:36:04 2007 Message-Id: <45F9920F.8010501@gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: snails & slugs Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 11:35:59 -0700 Yesterday I noticed some leaf nibbles on a Tulipa linifolia and assumed it was snails, which I keep in check with desultory hand-picking and the occasional Sluggo. I refrained from applying the latter after reading about Carolyn's chickens and observing how ravenous the resident sparrows an towhees are at the moment. This morning one of the leaves was completely severed a few inches from the base and there was mechanical damage to the outer tepals of a nascent bud. I'd think the latter implicates snails again, but the former seems more mammalian. Cats (and possibly rats or raccoons) are potential culprits. Neighboring Ixia, Dichelostemma and Calochortus were untouched. Anyone have any ideas? I've not seen any cutworms around. Best, Max Oakland CA > Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 10:19:46 -0700 > From: totototo@telus.net > Subject: Re: [pbs] snails & slugs > > Not only slugs and snails, but climbing cutworms (which can be very > destructive to foliage) and various weevils are suitable targets. > > From jyourch@nc.rr.com Thu Mar 15 17:06:33 2007 Message-Id: <000201c76745$cf7b7f10$0200a8c0@Office> From: "Jay Yourch" Subject: Wiki up again Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 17:06:31 -0400 Hi all, The good news us that I've been working with support at ibiblio and the PBS Wiki is up again. The bad news is that it's not fully operational, you can browse, but can't login to edit pages or upload photos. It's also a little homely because it's not inserting spaces in pages named in WikiWord format, and can't find various image files and style sheets that improve the appearance. Over the next few weeks, I'll be be adding back more functionality and addressing the cosmetic issues, announcing any significant changes here. Thanks, Jay Mary Sue Ittner wrote: Ibiblio upgraded to the most recent php code this morning which is the code that runs our wiki and it appears that it is no longer working. At least I only get error messages when I have tried to access anything. So we will be trying to work with ibiblio to resolve this. I don't know how long it will take. From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Thu Mar 15 17:09:08 2007 Message-Id: <21663425.1173992948188.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Adaptable Juno irises Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 17:09:07 -0400 (GMT-04:00) We have offered I. rosenbachiana for several years at what is a ridiculously low price compared to European sources, and have sold virtually none, except for the ones DBG ordered. This is true of all the Junos -- they're wonderful plants and far more growable than alleged, but no one is going to make a living selling them! And yes, they're true I. rosenbachiana, from a source upstream from J. Ruksans. Russell Russell Stafford Odyssey Bublbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 www.odysseybulbs.com -----Original Message----- >From: James Waddick >Sent: Mar 14, 2007 9:29 PM >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: Re: [pbs] Adaptable Juno irises > >> I have a few others, but these are definitely the most >adaptable. Top of my wish list is I rosenbachiana. I just got a note >from Panayoti Kelaidis that Denver BG has planted a small lawn of >this species after they had such good luck with a larger 'lawn' of I >bucharica. So it goes in Denver! > Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 russell@odysseybulbs.com From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Thu Mar 15 18:16:15 2007 Message-Id: <4545962.1173996975708.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Tulip mystery Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 18:16:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Tulip decapitation was practiced by some deer of my former acquaintance. No tough leaves for them -- just the plumpest, most succulent buds. Russell -----Original Message----- >From: Diane Whitehead >Sent: Mar 15, 2007 12:21 AM >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: Re: [pbs] Tulip mystery > >Deer are what eat tulips at my house, but they do eat - no tricks >about just nipping them off. Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 russell@odysseybulbs.com From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Mar 15 18:45:07 2007 Message-Id: <000001c76753$993d0cd0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Adaptable Juno irises Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 18:45:13 -0400 Russell Stafford wrote: "We have offered I. rosenbachiana for several years at what is a ridiculously low price compared to European sources, and have sold virtually none, except for the ones DBG ordered. This is true of all the Junos -- they're wonderful plants and far more growable than alleged, but no one is going to make a living selling them! And yes, they're true I. rosenbachiana, from a source upstream from J. Ruksans." If you would like to see what Russell sends out, check this link to the wiki which shows the plant he sent me in autumn 2005: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/JunoIrises Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 where I think I heard a toad calling earlier this evening. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Mar 15 19:30:59 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20070315162701.02e67dd0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Tulip mystery Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:28:10 -0700 I think it's usually rabbits that bite off flower stems in the way C.J. Teevan described. It is very annoying! Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA At 04:30 PM 3/14/2007 -0700, you wrote: >Since it is almost Tulip season here on Long Island, I wonder if you have >any theories about a problem I have with them every year. > > I grow Tulips up and down my driveway. The first few years, bloomed > beautifully. Then one year came along and I noticed one afternoon that > all of the Tulips (perhaps 100) had been de-flowered at the tip of the > stalks. The flowers were lieing next to the plant they had been from, on > the ground. From dkramb@badbear.com Thu Mar 15 19:03:57 2007 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20070315190016.0350e078@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Adaptable Juno irises Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 19:04:01 -0500 Okay, this is slightly off-topic, but I wanted to mention that I added a commercial section to the Iris Species Database that I operate for SIGNA. Your nursery is listed, but you might like me to re-word it somehow?? Take a look and let me know. I won't list hybrids individually, but would be willing to add some mention that you carry an assortment of hybrids. http://www.badbear.com/signa/signa.pl?Commercial This goes for any other PBSers that have nurseries that sell irises. Check out the database, and let me know if you want it updated. Dennis in Cincinnati (where winter might be coming back) At 04:09 PM 3/15/2007, you wrote: >We have offered I. rosenbachiana for several years at what is a >ridiculously low price compared to European sources, and have sold >virtually none, except for the ones DBG ordered. This is true of >all the Junos -- they're wonderful plants and far more growable than >alleged, but no one is going to make a living selling them! > >And yes, they're true I. rosenbachiana, from a source upstream from >J. Ruksans. > >Russell > >Russell Stafford >Odyssey Bublbs >PO Box 382 >South Lancaster, MA 01561 >www.odysseybulbs.com > >-----Original Message----- > >From: James Waddick > >Sent: Mar 14, 2007 9:29 PM > >To: Pacific Bulb Society > >Subject: Re: [pbs] Adaptable Juno irises > > > >> I have a few others, but these are definitely the most > >adaptable. Top of my wish list is I rosenbachiana. I just got a note > >from Panayoti Kelaidis that Denver BG has planted a small lawn of > >this species after they had such good luck with a larger 'lawn' of I > >bucharica. So it goes in Denver! > > > > >Russell Stafford >Odyssey Bulbs >PO Box 382 >South Lancaster, MA 01561 >russell@odysseybulbs.com > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From donhackenberry@acsworld.com Thu Mar 15 20:31:17 2007 Message-Id: <004d01c76762$97422960$bb574845@oemcomputer> From: "Don Hackenberry" Subject: adaptable Juno Irises Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 19:32:32 -0500 Dear Russell and All, You moved Tajikistan to Scotland-- Dunshanbe. Great catalogue! Really great catalogue. I'm going to order without fail. No one is going to make a living selling any of the good stuff, but some people don't let that stop them. What you will make is a name for yourself, and you will be loved. Happily retired, Don From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Mar 15 23:01:47 2007 Message-Id: <327A4012-0B1C-468A-8D30-D6D622AEA672@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: snails & slugs Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 20:01:32 -0700 I've only noticed cats eating grassy-looking leaves. Diane Whitehead From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Mar 16 00:50:39 2007 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Snails Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 21:50:06 -0700 Joe Shaw wrote: I wish there was a local bird that controlled scale and mealy bugs on potted plants. My Opuntia collection is a magnet for scale and mealies. ======================= Yes, a scale eater would be an excellent idea. Slugs and snails have rasping mouthparts which surely could scrape off scales. All we need to do is train them. Diane Whitehead From Theladygardens@aol.com Fri Mar 16 01:24:01 2007 Message-Id: From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: snails & slugs & birds Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 01:23:54 EDT Last year and again this winter we had something attacking our re blooming iris and chewing big chunks out of the petals, my husband mentioned snails but after checking i thought it was earwigs but that didn't seem right either. The mystery was solved when we actually saw a Spotted Towhee sitting on top of a huge bloom happily eating away. The Spotted Towhee is so pretty we just accept that we loose the iris blossoms to it during the winter months. A few years back, we thought we had been visited by wild hogs, the garden was so disrupted. a few mornings later we were up as the sun came up and saw hundreds of robins in our garden and plants flying through the air in every direction. We would not have believed Robins could do so much damage if we had not seen it happen. Carolyn ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From carlobal@netzero.com Fri Mar 16 06:32:52 2007 Message-Id: <20070316.023158.15735.1348950@webmail30.lax.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.com" Subject: Snails Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:31:07 GMT ...a good strong spray of water will blast off scale and mealy bug--about the least toxic solution imaginable. A few drops of a plain dish washing soap is often used as a wetter. Carlo Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com From rdjenkins@bellsouth.net Fri Mar 16 10:40:19 2007 Message-Id: <002701c767d9$02fd3020$6101a8c0@JenkinsMachine> From: "rdjenkins" Subject: [PBS] Snail, slugs, turtles. Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:40:08 -0400 I don't think anyone has mentioned the common box tortoise as a natural slug deterrant, so I will. http://www.chelonia.org/articles/Terrapenecare.htm http://www.wtgrain.org/turtle/w2needs.htm Robert. From maxwithers@gmail.com Fri Mar 16 14:17:11 2007 Message-Id: <45FADF22.30905@gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: Snails Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 11:17:06 -0700 Went out with the flashlight last night and found a snail munching (apparently) contentedly on Bilbergia nutans. So they will eat anything! Max (The Bilbergia of course had no damage. Maybe it was licking the trichomes?) > Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 21:50:06 -0700 > From: Diane Whitehead > Subject: Re: [pbs] Snails > > Yes, a scale eater would be an excellent idea. Slugs and snails have > rasping mouthparts which surely could scrape off scales. > All we need to do is train them. > > Diane Whitehead From idavide@sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 16 18:13:51 2007 Message-Id: <68867.87732.qm@web81006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Snails Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Carlo, I think you are mising the point. While getting rid of scale and mealy bug may be the object, real satisfaction comes from killing them. Let me give you an example: when I go out on my third floor balcony in the early morning and see snails on any of my plants, I pick them off and hurl them will all my might to the pavement below. When they hit, the flesh and the shell go in opposite directions. That is real satisfaction. ----- Original Message ---- From: "carlobal@netzero.com" carlobal@netzero.com ...a good strong spray of water will blast off scale and mealy bug--about the least toxic solution imaginable. A few drops of a plain dish washing soap is often used as a wetter. From totototo@telus.net Fri Mar 16 18:15:37 2007 Message-Id: <20070316221536.9CXR7LGDQG@priv-edtnaa05.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: snails & slugs Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:14:59 -0700 On 15 Mar 07, at 11:35, Max Withers wrote: > I've not seen any cutworms around. Cutworms are nocturnal. To see them, you have to go out after dark with a flashlight, tread cautiously, and pay close attention. They tend to be very sensitive to vibrations and thuds, and drop to the ground in a flash if they think there's a predator nearby. The climbing cutworms we get here are dismally gray things, some kind of moth larva, and their color sometimes makes them hard to see. I've learned to recognize some of the different styles of damage caused by different pests. Climbing cutworm damage to foliage looks like someone has torn away fairly large pieces of the leaves. In contrast, weevil damage is a notching of leaf margins, and cutter bees cut out neat circular pieces about half an inch (12 mm) in diameter. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From carlobal@netzero.net Fri Mar 16 19:17:27 2007 Message-Id: <20070316.151700.15735.1353790@webmail30.lax.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.net" Subject: Snails Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 23:16:08 GMT Point taken (about killing them personally--with some visceral element of satisfaction). BUT, these days speed counts. It's much faster to power-wash the entire plant than it is to pick by hand..... You can have that fun and I'll toast you with a glass of red from my end. Carlo Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com From Miller7398@comcast.net Fri Mar 16 21:33:24 2007 Message-Id: <20070317013324.9A7764C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Joyce Miller Subject: Old lily seed Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 18:33:05 -0700 Hi Plant Friends, This afternoon I checked 15 pots of old Lilium sp. seed that had been sown October 2006. They were plunged on the south side of my greenhouse and covered with fir branches as protection against hungry birds. I am not certain of their source, but I think the most likely source was from the Sonora County Chapter (California) of North American Rock Garden Society . The chapter had a box of undistributed NARGS seeds. I knew at that time I was moving to "God's Country" i.e. Gresham, Oregon. Gresham is just to the east of Portland, Oregon, in the Willamette Valley. As such it is pretty good Lilium territory. I sampled heavily of Lilium species. I noted the seed packets were identified by location so concluded they had been wild collected. Notice the dates on the germinated pots. Pretty amazing. Liliumhumboltii9-14-89 Liliumhumboltii9-18-89 Liliumhumboltii9-8-95 Liliumhumboltii9-28-91 Liliumhumboltii9-28-91 Liliumparvum8-27-93 Liliumparvum1990 Liliumparvum9-8-90 Liliumrubescense1990 Liliumrubescense8-19-90 Liliumwashingtonianum9-15-90 Liliumwashingtonianum minor?9-27-90 Joyce E. Miller Gresham, Oregon USAUSDA 7 From gardenstreet184@yahoo.com Sat Mar 17 04:25:39 2007 Message-Id: <364067.41125.qm@web36413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "C.J. Teevan" Subject: Snails Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 01:25:35 -0700 (PDT) I had a scale-infested Ficus for years, just kept removing the twigs they were on but it took a lot of time. Then I bought a house and moved the Ficus outside. Bought ladybugs. Sprinkled them at the base of the ficus. Scale vanished. Hard to believe but I did it myself. Have not had a scale problem since --- that was 10 years ago, Long Island, NY, USA Diane Whitehead wrote: Joe Shaw wrote: I wish there was a local bird that controlled scale and mealy bugs on potted plants. My Opuntia collection is a magnet for scale and mealies. ======================= Yes, a scale eater would be an excellent idea. Slugs and snails have rasping mouthparts which surely could scrape off scales. All we need to do is train them. Diane Whitehead _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --------------------------------- It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. From gardenstreet184@yahoo.com Sat Mar 17 04:26:43 2007 Message-Id: <880212.88565.qm@web36406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "C.J. Teevan" Subject: [PBS] Snail, slugs, turtles. Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 01:26:42 -0700 (PDT) Capital idea. Do racoons like the box turtles? rdjenkins wrote: I don't think anyone has mentioned the common box tortoise as a natural slug deterrant, so I will. http://www.chelonia.org/articles/Terrapenecare.htm http://www.wtgrain.org/turtle/w2needs.htm Robert. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --------------------------------- TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. From bonaventure@optonline.net Sat Mar 17 14:57:43 2007 Message-Id: From: bonaventure@optonline.net Subject: Snails Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 18:57:41 +0000 (GMT) Yes David, I hope that by googling my name and reading my correspondences with various e-lists, the human resources departments of prospective employers can see that I am not the only one who gets some satisfaction out of dispensing with horticultural pests. Of course I may be rather paranoid of my tongue-in-cheek writings, but according to an article on a job search board, it happens. Carlo, try putting some hydrogen peroxide solution in that water, and watch them foam up. Am I perverse to say that you can actually hear them sizzle? It doesn't hurt the plants and may actually work to stimulate their immune responses. ; - ) Bonaventure Original message: Message: 2 Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:13:50 -0700 (PDT) From: David Ehrlich Subject: Re: [pbs] Snails To: Pacific Bulb Society Message-ID: <68867.87732.qm@web81006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Carlo, I think you are mising the point. While getting rid of scale and mealy bug may be the object, real satisfaction comes from killing them. Let me give you an example: when I go out on my third floor balcony in the early morning and see snails on any of my plants, I pick them off and hurl them will all my might to the pavement below. When they hit, the flesh and the shell go in opposite directions. That is real satisfaction. ----- Original Message ---- From: "carlobal@netzero.com" carlobal@netzero.com ...a good strong spray of water will blast off scale and mealy bug--about the least toxic solution imaginable. A few drops of a plain dish washing soap is often used as a wetter. From jglatt@hughes.net Sat Mar 17 15:28:39 2007 Message-Id: <45FC416A.9070902@hughes.net> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: Tortoises and Raccoons Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 15:28:42 -0400 Back in 1973 we brought two tortoises home from a summer in Holland, along with the two children, dachshund, and two cats we'd started out with, as well as 7.5 kilos of flower bulbs, 20 small rhododendrons, and a box of assorted plants. Details of our arrival at Kennedy Airport are another story. The tortoises spent winters in the bathroom, summers in a cage outdoors. They did indeed enjoy slugs, and would come hustling (well, about as well as a tortoise can scurry) to be hand-fed, getting gooey and foamy around their beak-like mouths. One summer the raccoons carried Kleine away and ate her. Grote was banged up, with a colorful scute over her bony carapace knocked off. I took her to our children's orthodontist, who did a neat patch with monomer / polymer plastic. I was sworn never to reveal his name, lest every ill tortoise in Fairfield County, Connecticut show up on his doorstep. Judy in New Jersey where winter has returned with better than 3 inches of accumulated snow and sleet unplowably adhered to our driveway From ken@wildlanders.com Sat Mar 17 18:18:05 2007 Message-Id: <004b01c768ea$3782bf60$5e3cb944@kboettger> From: "wildlander" Subject: Old Lily Seeds Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 15:04:00 -0800 Joyce, This info is of very high value to me. I work in the native plant industry and collecting and storage of seed is critical. And knowing the seed longevity is of primary concern. If I read you right, these seeds were over 10 years old in most cases. In some cases nearly 20 years old. Is that right? From an ecological point of view, this says much about soil seed reserves too. Thanks for sharing. Ken Alpine WildSeed ISPcowboy.com Ellensburg, WA > Hi Plant Friends, > > This afternoon I checked 15 pots of old Lilium sp. seed > that had been sown October 2006. They were plunged on the south side > of my greenhouse and covered with fir branches as protection against > hungry birds. I am not certain of their source, but I think the > most likely source was from the Sonora County Chapter (California) of > North American Rock Garden Society . The chapter had a box of > undistributed NARGS seeds. I knew at that time I was moving to "God's > Country" i.e. Gresham, Oregon. Gresham is just to the east of > Portland, Oregon, in the Willamette Valley. As such it is pretty > good Lilium territory. I sampled heavily of Lilium species. I > noted the seed packets were identified by location so concluded they > had been wild collected. Notice the dates on the germinated > pots. Pretty amazing. > Liliumhumboltii9-14-89 > Liliumhumboltii9-18-89 > Liliumhumboltii9-8-95 > Liliumhumboltii9-28-91 > Liliumhumboltii9-28-91 > Liliumparvum8-27-93 > Liliumparvum1990 > Liliumparvum9-8-90 > Liliumrubescense1990 > Liliumrubescense8-19-90 > Liliumwashingtonianum9-15-90 > Liliumwashingtonianum minor?9-27-90 > > Joyce E. Miller Gresham, Oregon USAUSDA 7 > From gardenstreet184@yahoo.com Sat Mar 17 19:12:13 2007 Message-Id: <185937.93850.qm@web36411.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "C.J. Teevan" Subject: Tortoises and Raccoons Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 16:12:12 -0700 (PDT) So now my question is: How do you repel Raccoons? My dogs would do a fine job but they are indoors sleeping most of the night. How to secure the slug-eating turtles...??? Judy Glattstein wrote: Back in 1973 we brought two tortoises home from a summer in Holland, along with the two children, dachshund, and two cats we'd started out with, as well as 7.5 kilos of flower bulbs, 20 small rhododendrons, and a box of assorted plants. Details of our arrival at Kennedy Airport are another story. The tortoises spent winters in the bathroom, summers in a cage outdoors. They did indeed enjoy slugs, and would come hustling (well, about as well as a tortoise can scurry) to be hand-fed, getting gooey and foamy around their beak-like mouths. One summer the raccoons carried Kleine away and ate her. Grote was banged up, with a colorful scute over her bony carapace knocked off. I took her to our children's orthodontist, who did a neat patch with monomer / polymer plastic. I was sworn never to reveal his name, lest every ill tortoise in Fairfield County, Connecticut show up on his doorstep. Judy in New Jersey where winter has returned with better than 3 inches of accumulated snow and sleet unplowably adhered to our driveway _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --------------------------------- Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. From honeybunny442@yahoo.com Sat Mar 17 19:56:34 2007 Message-Id: <194703.48895.qm@web56111.mail.re3.yahoo.com> From: Susan B Subject: Tortoises and Raccoons Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 16:56:34 -0700 (PDT) What a story (and I'd love to hear the customs one, too) Do you still have Grote? Susan Bryant --------------------------------- Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. From Miller7398@comcast.net Sat Mar 17 21:47:33 2007 Message-Id: <20070318014732.00C2A4C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Joyce Miller Subject: Old Lily Seeds Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 18:47:29 -0700 Dear Ken and All, Indeed, viability of old seed is quite a fascinating subject in itself. A number of years ago the Sacramento, California Chapter of the The California Native Plant Society, gave a multi-speaker program on restoring a wetland area near Davis, California, a research project studying the effects of different plantings on flood erosion control on the American River and converting a small park east of Sacramento to a Native Plant habitat. The latter speaker related his experience with wild flower viability. In one part of the park, a small area was graded preparatory to planting. Over the winter, prior to the spring seeding, many many wild flower seeds germinated that apparently had been dormant under the prior discarded soil. Here is another example of the viability of some seed. Several years ago my sister in Bend, Oregon, accepted a friend's offer to rototill her vegetable garden where she had been growing for several years. Subsequently, she found her garden thick with the Common Purslane (Portulaca oleracea). She tried everything she knew to do to eliminate the weed from hand pulling, hoeing (a more efficient way to make cuttings of the little demon) to glysophate. She said she would no sooner clear the area than another set of weeds emerged. When I recently completed Master Gardener training, I was able to verify her theory that her neighbor's generous deed had been responsible. One Common purslane plant is capable of producing 53,400 seeds that have a potential viability of 30 years. Kind regards, Joyce Miller Gresham, Oregon Zone 7 From dkramb@badbear.com Sat Mar 17 20:59:07 2007 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20070317205853.03375648@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Tortoises and Raccoons Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 20:59:17 -0500 At 06:56 PM 3/17/2007, you wrote: >What a story (and I'd love to hear the customs one, too) >Do you still have Grote? > >Susan Bryant I AGREE!! WITH BOTH COMMENTS. That was a great story, Judy. :-) Dennis in Cincinnati (where it's cold, but no snow/sleet). From Miller7398@comcast.net Sat Mar 17 22:50:45 2007 Message-Id: <20070318025045.53FF74C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Jan Jeddeloh (by way of Joyce Miller ) Subject: Cute Nursery Sign Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 19:50:41 -0700 On my visit to Cistus Nursery today I noticed the men's restroom was labeled "Anther" and the women's restroom was labeled "Stigma". I guess you could call it horticultural humor. From jglatt@hughes.net Sun Mar 18 18:20:34 2007 Message-Id: <45FDBB37.1030803@hughes.net> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: OT: Tortoises and Returning Home from Holland Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 18:20:39 -0400 Dear Susan and Dennis, Grote died a long time ago. She was an old tortoise when we got her, the ridges on her scutes worn almost flat. Kidney failure, nothing much that could be done even though I had her looked at by the vet for the Bronx Zoo. I started writing up the story of our arrival at Kennedy Airport with dog, cats, tortoises, bulbs and other plants. I decided it is really off-topic to put on this forum. If you are curious, go here March 2007 and it is on my web site. Judy in New Jersey where a wintry landscape glistens in the sunlight. From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Mar 19 11:27:23 2007 Message-Id: <000d01c76a3b$1d01cb20$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Tortoises and Raccoons Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:27:30 -0400 I hate to be a kill joy here, but someone needs to mention several inconvenient things about turtles and tortoises in captivity: 1) The Mediterranean tortoises (there are several species, generally much confused) are not a good choice for someone looking for a garden tortoise in most of North America or Europe. Sentimental efforts to imitate Gilbert White's account of Timothy (which was in fact a girl tortoise, not a boy tortoise) have condemned who knows how many hundreds of thousands of these creatures to a sad existence and early death in captivity in unsuitable climates. Some countries control the importation of these animals, usually with the same efficiency they have in controlling the importation of drugs. There are interesting parallels between the centuries-old trade in tortoises and the centuries-old trade in collected bulbs (and drugs). 2) Box turtles themselves, although native to much of North American in one form or another, are not all that easy to keep in captivity. If kept as house pets, they don't do well in the long run. They do better if penned outside. If allowed to roam, roam they will, eventually out onto a road where they meet their doom. They are surprisingly agile, and most people greatly underestimate their ability to climb fences and other barriers. Should you be lucky enough to get one to thrive, it faces other dangers: captive box turtles are typically too fat to withdraw into their shells. These turtles, when attacked by raccoons or other predators, are likely to have their legs gnawed off. 3) If you feel yourself weakening and are about to acquire a box turtle or a Mediterranean tortoise, please first take the time to contact someone who has some expertise in keeping these creatures. Because they take a long time to die, people are under the illusion that they are easily kept in captivity. They are not. They have peculiar dietary, dormancy and biorhythm requirements which are at odds with our human life styles. Wild collected animals typically have a significant parasite fauna which is likely to cause complications sooner or later. When I was a kid, box turtles were so common that on a weekend hike it was not unusual to encounter one after another. Now, it's unusual to find even one. Most of them have been crushed or smashed by cars or collected for the pet trade. Here in Maryland, it's legal to keep one box turtle (or so I've been told. I guess the authorities don't want them breeding in captivity). The domestic trade in box turtles is now a thing of the past in many states. But they are still collected for export to Europe where there is a long tradition of keeping box turtles; and as with all of our turtles, unknown numbers are annually exported to the soup bowls of Asia. If you want to help our turtles, support those organizations which set aside large tracts of land for wildlife conservation. And agitate for stricter enforcement of laws meant to curb the illegal international trade of wildlife. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where every couple of years or so a box turtle will wander into the garden. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From piabinha@yahoo.com Mon Mar 19 12:17:58 2007 Message-Id: <20070319161757.86586.qmail@web51910.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: scale Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:17:57 -0700 (PDT) that must be quite some equipment you have, carlo, as in my experience scale insects are basically glued to the plant and very hard to knock off unless you use your fingers and pick them individually one by one. --- "carlobal@netzero.com" wrote: > ...a good strong spray of water will blast off scale > and mealy > bug--about the least toxic solution imaginable. A > few drops of a plain > dish washing soap is often used as a wetter. ========= tsuh yang ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 From jglatt@hughes.net Mon Mar 19 12:37:10 2007 Message-Id: <45FEBC2C.9090308@hughes.net> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: Turtles and Tortoises in Captivity Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 12:37:00 -0400 Jim raises some good points. However: my two tortoises had a large portion of our L-shaped bathroom for their winter quarters. There was a box with large cut-outs on all sides, with a heat lamp in the roof, so they could easily warm up or cool off. One point to remember is that reptiles and amphibians are poikilothermic - a $25 word meaning body temperature is regulated by surrounding temperature, not internal metabolism. If they eat food and temperatures are too low the food will rot inside their body rather than be digested. They were fed soaked dog biscuits, fruit and vegetables, with a "dressing" of calcium powder and a drop or two of cod liver oil. They had a shallow bathing pool (Pyrex pie pan) with the water changed daily. Summers outdoors had pool and shaded areas - they can also overheat. Here in New Jersey I once found a baby box turtle in my garden, smaller than the size of my palm. I usually do at least one rescue each summer, hustling an indignant box tortoise from the middle of the road to the verge. They're very territorial, and that's about as far as I like to shift one. I'm comfortable that these tortoises were well cared for. Greek tortoises do not close their plastron as box tortoises are able to do. That Kleine was killed and eaten by a predator had nothing to do with overweight. Want to hear about the pet skunk I had for 5 years? Judy in New Jersey where any sensible tortoise, turtle, or snake is still sound asleep. Given the icy snow all over the garden I'm tempted to take a nap myself . . . From dejager@bulbargence.com Mon Mar 19 12:39:25 2007 Message-Id: From: Bulbargence Subject: scale Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:39:20 +0100 Dear all, A few years ago I have lost a mimosa tree because of a continuous attack of "Metcalfa' and during the winter 'mealy bug" No chemical treament solved the problem. The new Mimosa tree again was attacked and suffered badly. Twee weeks ago I "cleaned" the tree with a Karcher high pressure pump. A total succes. I cannot think of any more ecological solution. Greetings Lauw de Jager BULB'ARGENCE Mas d'Argence 30300 FOURQUES, France Zone tel 33(0)466 016 519 ou 33(0)877733 970 fax 0466 011 245 Code Skype telephone: dejagerlauw http://www.bulbargence.com mailto: dejager@bulbargence.com Coord. Geogr.(GPS): 43°42' 43" N 4° 32' 12" E > that must be quite some equipment you have, carlo, as > in my experience scale insects are basically glued to > the plant and very hard to knock off unless you use > your fingers and pick them individually one by one. > > --- "carlobal@netzero.com" > wrote: > >> ...a good strong spray of water will blast off scale >> and mealy >> bug--about the least toxic solution imaginable. From carlobal@netzero.net Mon Mar 19 12:52:32 2007 Message-Id: <20070319.085044.15735.1364926@webmail30.lax.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.net" Subject: scale Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:50:22 GMT Just a garden hose and a "heavy" volume Fogg-It nozzle (4 gallons a minute). Works like a charm (but you'll likely get wet too). Carlo Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com From Theladygardens@aol.com Mon Mar 19 12:58:28 2007 Message-Id: From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: scale Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 12:58:23 EDT We have scale also and it is extremely hard to get off. Hand picking each one does work and is messy and very time consuming. A blast of water may work before they make the shells that are attached to the plant. There are several kinds of scale and maybe Carlos has a different scale than we have. We have more than one kind. I think many people on this list don't realize what a problem snails and slugs can be either. I can pick up over 100 in a 30 minute time frame and keep doing this all day long in bright sunlight and there are still more. So when people talk about just hand picking those, they obviously live in areas that do not have so many. We work on controlling them every year, all year long. Carolyn in Los Gatos where we are constantly dealing with snails and slugs. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Mar 19 13:04:31 2007 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: scale Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:04:30 -0700 There is one point in its life that scale is soft, mobile and vulnerable. Then it settles down and grows the shell that needs scraping off. This is the kind of scale we have, but there may be others in the East that don't grow a shell. Diane Whitehead West Coast of Canada From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Mar 19 13:50:26 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Turtles and old pears Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 12:35:21 -0500 Dear friends; Although we are the edge of their range we do get Eastern Box Turles into the garden each year attracted to the 'rain' of ripe Bosc pears in late summer. We try to give them their lea way and they are slim enough to hide inside when the cats get too inquisitive - no harm done. Like Judy, I'll move to the 'other side of the road', but never tempted to bring them into the garden and divert their steadfast journeys or there territoriality. Do my part. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From bonaventure@optonline.net Mon Mar 19 16:05:02 2007 Message-Id: From: bonaventure@optonline.net Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 50, Issue 29 Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 20:04:45 +0000 (GMT) I echo Jim's observations for here in NJ. I have only found them on the road and in a backyard and felt i had to rescue these 2. Regardless, one has escaped from my backyard, I hope he made it over the "black rivers of death" to the nearby woods. The other has no apparent sense of direction and is happy to be in the garden from April to October (better contained this time), and then withdrawn into her shell from late October to April in a very chilly nearly unheated storage room, where she does not reextend her head and limbs to move from the corner, not even for a sip of water, until April again. One warning for the garden, they will plow and bulldoze their way into soft soil, moving aside and partially uprooting plants until they are nearly covered. Bonaventure ----- Original Message ----- From: pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org Date: Monday, March 19, 2007 11:02 am Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 50, Issue 29 To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post: > List-Archive: > > Today's Topics: > > 1. OT: Tortoises and Returning Home from Holland (Judy Glattstein) > 2. Re: Tortoises and Raccoons (Jim McKenney) > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 18:20:39 -0400 > From: Judy Glattstein > Subject: [pbs] OT: Tortoises and Returning Home from Holland > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <45FDBB37.1030803@hughes.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Dear Susan and Dennis, > > Grote died a long time ago. She was an old tortoise when we got > her, the > ridges on her scutes worn almost flat. Kidney failure, nothing > much that > could be done even though I had her looked at by the vet for the > Bronx Zoo. > > I started writing up the story of our arrival at Kennedy Airport > with > dog, cats, tortoises, bulbs and other plants. I decided it is > really > off-topic to put on this forum. If you are curious, go here > March 2007 > and it is on my > web site. > > > Judy in New Jersey where a wintry landscape glistens in the sunlight. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:27:30 -0400 > From: "Jim McKenney" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Tortoises and Raccoons > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" > Message-ID: <000d01c76a3b$1d01cb20$2f01a8c0@Library> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I hate to be a kill joy here, but someone needs to mention several > inconvenient things about turtles and tortoises in captivity: > > 1) The Mediterranean tortoises (there are several species, > generally much > confused) are not a good choice for someone looking for a garden > tortoise in > most of North America or Europe. Sentimental efforts to imitate > GilbertWhite's account of Timothy (which was in fact a girl > tortoise, not a boy > tortoise) have condemned who knows how many hundreds of > thousands of these > creatures to a sad existence and early death in captivity in > unsuitableclimates. Some countries control the importation of > these animals, usually > with the same efficiency they have in controlling the > importation of drugs. > There are interesting parallels between the centuries-old trade > in tortoises > and the centuries-old trade in collected bulbs (and drugs). > > 2) Box turtles themselves, although native to much of North > American in one > form or another, are not all that easy to keep in captivity. If > kept as > house pets, they don't do well in the long run. They do better > if penned > outside. If allowed to roam, roam they will, eventually out onto > a road > where they meet their doom. They are surprisingly agile, and > most people > greatly underestimate their ability to climb fences and other > barriers.Should you be lucky enough to get one to thrive, it > faces other dangers: > captive box turtles are typically too fat to withdraw into their > shells.These turtles, when attacked by raccoons or other > predators, are likely to > have their legs gnawed off. > > 3) If you feel yourself weakening and are about to acquire a box > turtle or a > Mediterranean tortoise, please first take the time to contact > someone who > has some expertise in keeping these creatures. Because they take > a long time > to die, people are under the illusion that they are easily kept in > captivity. They are not. They have peculiar dietary, dormancy > and biorhythm > requirements which are at odds with our human life styles. Wild > collectedanimals typically have a significant parasite fauna > which is likely to cause > complications sooner or later. > > When I was a kid, box turtles were so common that on a weekend > hike it was > not unusual to encounter one after another. Now, it's unusual to > find even > one. Most of them have been crushed or smashed by cars or > collected for the > pet trade. Here in Maryland, it's legal to keep one box turtle > (or so I've > been told. I guess the authorities don't want them breeding in > captivity).The domestic trade in box turtles is now a thing of > the past in many states. > But they are still collected for export to Europe where there is > a long > tradition of keeping box turtles; and as with all of our > turtles, unknown > numbers are annually exported to the soup bowls of Asia. > > If you want to help our turtles, support those organizations > which set aside > large tracts of land for wildlife conservation. And agitate for > stricterenforcement of laws meant to curb the illegal > international trade of > wildlife. > > > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where every > couple of years > or so a box turtle will wander into the garden. > > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 50, Issue 29 > *********************************** > From dkramb@badbear.com Mon Mar 19 18:45:27 2007 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20070319184311.01b2b138@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Turtles and Tortoises in Captivity Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:45:40 -0500 >Judy in New Jersey where any sensible tortoise, turtle, or snake is >still sound asleep. Given the icy snow all over the garden I'm tempted >to take a nap myself . . . My comment is totally OT, but I went hiking yesterday (in the sunny, blustery, 40-something degree weather) and found two adult garden snakes sunning themselves amongst the leaf litter nearby 2 different streams. I told them they might regret coming out of hibernation so soon. LOL. I had forgotten all about it until reading Judy's comments above. :-) Dennis in Cincinnati From mmattus@charter.net Mon Mar 19 20:06:44 2007 Message-Id: From: MATT MATTUS Subject: Turtles and Tortoises in Captivity Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 20:12:06 -0400 I know this is off topic, but this is sort-of on topic. I've been keeping quiet, but we 'rescued' a large South African tortoise a few years ago Joe brought him home, and he spends his summers in the rock garden, with stone and a concrete wall, where he can eat grass, hide in shade behind large rocks, and grow even bigger. Winters, he spends in the art studio, a large room heated by a wood stove, but he also has a infrared light to keep his environment warm. I have been surprised at what a character he is. When I week the rock garden, he (Fred) walks around and surveys the surroundings. He can't reach the plants, because he is in a pit shaped area, much like a zoo habitat. Our Irish Terriers keep the Raccoons away, and but they are always curious about him. Last summer he spent lost in the Berkshires, when a fellow NARGS members son took him to live with him. After escaping, he was pierced through his shell, and had a ring attached, and was tethered to a tree with a chain. Although, officially he I snow very 'cool'. He is back with us once again. Snakes? Dare I admit that even though I am a guy, have loads of tattoos and a shaved head.....and a major gardener and a rock gardener...that I am hopelessly horrified at even a photo of a garter snake, and I take great lengths to avoid them by any means possible! I know, I can't help it. You have no idea how much money it took to design a 30 foot glass greenhouse that is sunken, with a snake-proof foundation! I did it, but I am crazy! I am even now, while writing this, slightly freaking out seeing the word snake appear on the screen. Ugh!! Matt Mattus Worcester, MA USA ZONE 5b Where it is snowing again this evening, but the Hamamelis is in bloom in 12 inches of snow. On 3/19/07 12:37 PM, "Judy Glattstein" wrote: > Jim raises some good points. However: my two tortoises had a large > portion of our L-shaped bathroom for their winter quarters. There was a > box with large cut-outs on all sides, with a heat lamp in the roof, so > they could easily warm up or cool off. > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From puppincuff@cox.net Mon Mar 19 20:24:47 2007 Message-Id: <002d01c76a86$27872a40$6401a8c0@Office> From: "chuck schwartz" Subject: scale Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:24:41 -0700 If you take vegetable oil or liquid soap (NOT DETERGENT) mixed with water and spray the plant with scale, you smother the scale and kill it. This is much quicker than hand picking and also completely organic chuck Schwartz ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] scale > We have scale also and it is extremely hard to get off. Hand picking > each > one does work and is messy and very time consuming. A blast of water may > work > before they make the shells that are attached to the plant. There are > several kinds of scale and maybe Carlos has a different scale than we > have. We > have more than one kind. I think many people on this list don't realize > what a > problem snails and slugs can be either. I can pick up over 100 in a 30 > minute time frame and keep doing this all day long in bright sunlight and > there > are still more. So when people talk about just hand picking those, they > obviously live in areas that do not have so many. We work on controlling > them > every year, all year long. > Carolyn in Los Gatos where we are constantly dealing with snails and > slugs. > > > > ************************************** AOL now offers free email to > everyone. > Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From tiede@pacbell.net Mon Mar 19 20:48:41 2007 Message-Id: <046401c76a89$8071bd70$026fa8c0@EDEN> From: "Bracey Tiede" Subject: scale Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:48:38 -0700 In California at least there are both soft scale and armored scale. The soft scale can be controlled with a soapy spray pretty much anytime but the armored scape can only be controlled when they are in crawler stage which arrives here in San Jose in early spring. Then an oil spray smothers the crawlers. The University of California has a Pest Note on the topic with host plant lists and lots of great pictures to see if your scale are like any of these. http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7408.html Small birds like Bushtits are very good at getting rid of soft scale. Cheers, Bracey San Jose CA where just about everything is in beautiful bloom right now and where we don't have turtles and where thick tree-trimmings mulch and drip irrigation keep the snail/slug populations low. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of chuck schwartz Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 5:25 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] scale If you take vegetable oil or liquid soap (NOT DETERGENT) mixed with water and spray the plant with scale, you smother the scale and kill it. This is much quicker than hand picking and also completely organic chuck Schwartz From honeybunny442@yahoo.com Mon Mar 19 21:08:26 2007 Message-Id: <573522.17571.qm@web56111.mail.re3.yahoo.com> From: Susan B Subject: Turtles and Tortoises in Captivity-OT Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:08:25 -0700 (PDT) OK, I have to weigh in on the tortoise thing too. I've owned 2 red footed forest tortoises since 1993. A year later, they may have saved my life- I accidentally left a gas burner on (but not alight) and went to bed. I had the bedroom door closed but woke up before dawn to a coughing noise (ACK ACK ACK). I blearily wondered if the tortoises were getting a cold... and finally got up to check on them. When I opened the door, I was practically overcome by the gas smell, and quickly turned off the stove and opened the windows. Fred and Ethel trudge around the yard, hiding under the rhubarb leaves if it gets too hot for them. They eat sunflower seedlings and morning glory seedlings in the garden but that is about all, although I'm sure they would love slugs. They go crazy for protein of any sort, but it is bad for them. I never let them outside if I'm not around. Matt, African spur thighs LOVE dandilions, if you didn't know. Susan --------------------------------- Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. From bonaventure@optonline.net Tue Mar 20 12:18:28 2007 Message-Id: From: bonaventure@optonline.net Subject: scale Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:18:27 +0000 (GMT) Try a soft toothbrush, preferably one you are about to discard (inless you have a roommate, sibling, ect. you dislike!), dipped in a small cup of 3% peroxide (straight solution). You do not need to apply pressure, just gentle passing over, no hard scrubbing. Bonaventure Tsuh Yang wrote:that must be quite some equipment you have, carlo, as in my experience scale insects are basically glued to the plant and very hard to knock off unless you use your fingers and pick them individually one by one. --- "carlobal@netzero.com" wrote: > ...a good strong spray of water will blast off scale > and mealy > bug--about the least toxic solution imaginable. A > few drops of a plain > dish washing soap is often used as a wetter. From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Mar 20 16:00:40 2007 Message-Id: <000001c76b2a$71f8d5c0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Tulip season 2007 opens Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:00:43 -0400 The tulip season opened today here in Montgomery County, Maryland, The first tulip to open, as usual, is Tulipa kaufmanniana. Technically, it's still winter! Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the first Erythronium and Corydalis are also blooming in the cold frame. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Tue Mar 20 16:05:26 2007 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A06DB112F@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Spring arrives in Chicago Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:05:26 -0500 Blooming this week are Galanthus elwesii, Eranthus hyemalis, Iris reticulata 'Harmony' and Colchicum szovitsii 'Tivi'. Some Crocus are starting to show the tips of their petals. Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel: 847-835-6841 fax: 847-835-1635 email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Mar 20 18:14:45 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Temperate Spring Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:34:59 -0500 Dear Friends; As Jim and Boyce and others have already stated spring has appeared in temperate regions of the US. Unlike the mild and gradual slide into 'spring' seen on the west coast, here spring pops into being. One week we are encased in ice, then a week of melt and then a rainbow begins to develop from nothing. Each day seems to bring attention to another 'star' of the garden. The last couple of days it has been Chinodoxa 'Pink Giant'. Surprising how much color and attitude from these tiny bulbs. Even more extreme is the minute Scilla bifolia. Just one would be a very minor 'minor bulb', but they self sew around and form little dots of bright blue. I bought a number of bulbs of the typical (blue flowered) form along with 'alba' and 'pink' a few years ago, but only the typical has persisted and flourished. As the name suggests it has 2 thin short leaves ,but s small stalk of starry bright blue flowers forces your attention. The Juno Sindpers is at its peak with at least 1/2 dozen open flowers and now other Junos are forming buds. I anticipate the full force of typical blue Anemone blanda, then 'White Splendor' to follow and later A nemorosa forms. JimMc mentions early tulips. Mine is always T. turkestanica. This goes from a few narrow leaves with no hint of a bud to shining white stars open wide in a day. We often fail to notice any sign of buds one day to find a display on the next ray of sunshine! Here the Crocus are going fast, even the big Dutch cultivars that persist in the grass. 'Pickwick', and those big self colored white, deep purple and gold plus a scattering of 'Lady Killer' and 'Ruby Giant' . The Muscari are just sending up foliage for next week's show and more will follow. Every day something else pops- sometimes all at once and sometimes just a hint before the big explosion like the half dozen open Daphne genkwa flowers that will soon cover the 4 ft bush. A few golden Forsythias, but a prelude to a golden glow by the weekend. And so it goes here. Today a much needed "spring rain' (a few hours before the equinox) and more showers to stir more bulbs and buds. With luck we'll have a few weeks of mild days, no freezes and a wave of one bloom after another. Mostly we'll go to 'too hot' too soon. We have learned to savor each mild spring day and each 'act' of the long running spring review of bulbs and perennials. Hooray. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From dells@voicenet.com Tue Mar 20 17:14:02 2007 Message-Id: <20070320211402.671AD4C013@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 141 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:13:41 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 139" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class postage. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.) please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Alberto Grossi: 1. Bulbils of Dioscorea bulbifera 2. Bulbils of Anredera cordifolia From Lynn Makela: 3. Tubers of Sinningia bulbosa 4. Tubers of Sinningia tubiflora 5. Rhizomes of Gloxinia sylvatica 'Bolivian Sunset' 6. Tubers of Sinningia aghensis 7. Rhizomes of Eucodonia hybrids 8. Rhizomes of Achimenes hyb 'Yellow Beauty' 9. Rhizomes of Achimenes hyb 'Purple King' (Hardy to Z 8) 10. Small offsets of Hippeastrum petiolatum Thank you, Alberto and Lynn !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From dells@voicenet.com Tue Mar 20 17:14:07 2007 Message-Id: <20070320211402.BCF534C013@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: scale Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:13:41 -0400 I have found that Neem oil and a little detergent in water sprayed as a thorough wetting gets rid of scale - the kind with a shell - very effectively for a few months on my Laurus nobilis "tree." The dead scales just stay there, but eventually drop off. Dell From jshields104@insightbb.com Tue Mar 20 17:49:26 2007 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20070320164808.027168e8@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Janis Ruksans Web Site? Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:49:23 -0500 Does Janis Ruksans have a web site? I thought I had seen reference to one, but searching on the web doesn't turn it up. Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Mar 20 20:49:00 2007 Message-Id: <46008F02.50203@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Spring arrives in Chicago Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:48:50 -0500 Boyce: I saw a bit of a flower on Colchicum szovitsii 'Vardaovit', but then the snow and ice storm came which turned into concrete so I can only wonder.... Arnold From DaveKarn@aol.com Wed Mar 21 01:27:07 2007 Message-Id: From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: Janis Ruksans Web Site? Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 01:27:01 EDT Jim ~ No, just an email address. Sales remain via paper catalog. Dave Karnstedt ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From gardenstreet184@yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 02:47:59 2007 Message-Id: <840481.65513.qm@web36405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "C.J. Teevan" Subject: Stem-less Spring Bulbs Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:47:58 -0700 (PDT) Would anyone be able to explain why suddenly a crop of spring Tulips would appear without stems, or with short stems? I have a friend in the UK, where the spring bulbs are now beginning to bloom. In the southern regions, the winter was unusually wet and warm this year; temperatures didn't drop below 40 degrees all season long. In prior years, this person had no trouble, but it was colder and dryer. I can see blasting and I can see totally blind results, but I don't understand why they would bloom but have no stems. These were a fresh crop planted last autumn, just like every year. --------------------------------- It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. From J.Joschko@gmx.de Wed Mar 21 08:59:20 2007 Message-Id: From: "J. Joschko" Subject: Janis Ruksans Web Site? Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:59:28 +0100 Hi all , I have the last list of Janis Ruksans - as a Word document . If anybody is interestet please contact me private . Greetings Hans From telosrarebulbs@suddenlink.net Wed Mar 21 10:05:15 2007 Message-Id: <000d01c76bc1$8c89f4e0$763c6f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Telos Rare Bulbs" Subject: Web site/New address Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 06:02:22 -0800 Dear Friends: The web site for 2007 has been updated, and is now current. It can be viewed at: www.telosrarebulbs.com. There will be minor additions throughout the year, so if you are looking for a bulb, but don't see it there, please contact me. I will not be putting out a printed catalogue this year. Also, please note that Telos Rare Bulbs has a new address: Telos Rare Bulbs, P.O. Box 1067, Ferndale, CA 95536. Many thanks. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Wed Mar 21 12:33:05 2007 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A06DB13FD@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Spring arrives in Chicago Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 11:33:08 -0500 I wouldn't give up hope. They are tough. Tivi produces a succession of flowers so if the earliest get nipped the later ones come through OK. Heavy rains last night and today, coupled with the snow melt have created a memorable 'season of mud'. Some daff foliage got nipped but most other things look like they survived our warmer than average January followed by cold February (-18F is the lowest temp we recorded). Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel: 847-835-6841 fax: 847-835-1635 email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Arnold Trachtenberg Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:49 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Spring arrives in Chicago Boyce: I saw a bit of a flower on Colchicum szovitsii 'Vardaovit', but then the snow and ice storm came which turned into concrete so I can only wonder.... Arnold _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Wed Mar 21 12:34:55 2007 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A06DB1404@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Stem-less Spring Bulbs Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 11:34:57 -0500 When I gardened in southern New Mexico the tulips often bloomed at soil level. Never figured out if it was a lack of sufficient chilling or the very high sunlight levels that kept the stems from elongating. Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel: 847-835-6841 fax: 847-835-1635 email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of C.J. Teevan Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 1:48 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Stem-less Spring Bulbs Would anyone be able to explain why suddenly a crop of spring Tulips would appear without stems, or with short stems? I have a friend in the UK, where the spring bulbs are now beginning to bloom. In the southern regions, the winter was unusually wet and warm this year; temperatures didn't drop below 40 degrees all season long. In prior years, this person had no trouble, but it was colder and dryer. I can see blasting and I can see totally blind results, but I don't understand why they would bloom but have no stems. These were a fresh crop planted last autumn, just like every year. --------------------------------- It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From honeybunny442@yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 14:07:49 2007 Message-Id: <237561.23554.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com> From: Susan B Subject: Stem-less Spring Bulbs Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 11:07:45 -0700 (PDT) I've seen this in Zantedeschia during the summer, too. Susan --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. From maxwithers@gmail.com Wed Mar 21 15:12:52 2007 Message-Id: <460183B2.8030907@gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: Spring, and Freesia hybrids Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 12:12:50 -0700 My garden is young, so there are not yet many geophytes blooming at this time of year. One Erythronium californicum "white beauty", planted last fall, came up very early, the first flower opened before the scape was an inch long. It's done already, and the others are just starting to send up their scapes. A notable exception is a nice little drift of hybrid Freesia we inherited when we moved in, mostly white, but with a single plant with striking dark lavender stripes on a pale ground. Yellow blotch at the base. I've had no luck identifying the cultivar, but if anyone wants to take a stab at it, here's a picture: http://www.flickr.com/photos/badthings/429514526/ Best, Max Oakland CA From johnbryan@worldnet.att.net Wed Mar 21 15:47:24 2007 Message-Id: <259F4B4F.EAC5B9F4@worldnet.att.net> From: John Bryan Subject: Stem-less Spring Bulbs Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 19:47:24 -0000 Dear C.J.Teevan; Short stems can be caused by inadequate cool/cold storage, by fruit or vegetables being in the fridge, i.e. ethylene gas, by being raised in different micro climates, as sometimes happens with Japanese bulbs. Pay your money and take your choice! Cheers, John E. Bryan "C.J. Teevan" wrote: > > Would anyone be able to explain why suddenly a crop of spring Tulips would appear without stems, or with short stems? > > I have a friend in the UK, where the spring bulbs are now beginning to bloom. In the southern regions, the winter was unusually wet and warm this year; temperatures didn't drop below 40 degrees all season long. In prior years, this person had no trouble, but it was colder and dryer. I can see blasting and I can see totally blind results, but I don't understand why they would bloom but have no stems. These were a fresh crop planted last autumn, just like every year. > > > --------------------------------- > It's here! Your new message! > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From gardenersview@adelphia.net Wed Mar 21 16:05:25 2007 Message-Id: <000201c76bf4$4207d3f0$6501a8c0@SEKKEI> From: "Terry Hernstrom" Subject: Stem-less Spring Bulbs Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:05:21 -0700 My experience growing Tulips here in Southern California is limited but pre-chilling is important. Most hybrids have to have at least six weeks of chill in a refrigerator to bloom properly. Many are treated as annuals. Second year bloom on bulbs left in the ground has always been disappointing. Many large bulb suppliers will ask if you need pre-chilled bulbs when placing orders. My first season here I planted a bed of un-chilled bulbs and they all had short or weak stems. Terry Hernstrom Director Gardens & Grounds Kimberly Crest House and Gardens Redlands CA.......where scores and scores of all types of bulbs have been or are in bloom!!! From dkramb@badbear.com Wed Mar 21 18:51:05 2007 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.1.20070321175027.00f70fd8@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Spring arrives in Chicago Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 17:51:06 -0500 There's no such thing as spring when temps get into the high 70's in March in Ohio!!! I still only have Iris reticulata in bloom..... Dennis in Cincy From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Mar 21 21:34:52 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20070321183032.02b12d50@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Irrigation Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 18:36:20 -0700 Today I was watering the bulbs in the frames for an hour or so. Those of us who live in climates where dry-summer bulbs need overhead protection against excessive rain often concentrate on keeping water off them, but it's just as important to keep water on them when they need it. Most of these plants depend on spring runoff during their peak season of growth, even those that flower in fall and put on foliage in spring. If your bulbs have a dry spring, artificial or natural, think about where they live naturally and how much water they get then. When I read about the rediscovery of Tecophilaea cyanocrocus, for example, I realized that it is a snowmelt plant like many Lewisia species, or Oxalis adenophylla (which grows best in hollows where snow lies late). I always remember the advice of Fritz Kummert about growing Juno irises: he said they can hardly get too much water during their spring growth period. Some growers fertilize their bulbs with every watering, but I just fertilize them three times in spring (once in fall) and use plain water at other times. Those that can stand as much rain and intermittent frost as they get here in northern Oregon are grown uncovered. And frost can come after a long period without it: last night, for instance. This morning Magnolia 'Caerhays Belle' was transformed from a tower of pink silk into a tower of dirty dishrags From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Mar 22 10:25:31 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Irrigation Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:25:11 -0500 >Today I was watering the bulbs in the frames for an hour or so. Those of us >who live in climates where dry-summer bulbs need overhead protection >against excessive rain often concentrate on keeping water off them, but >it's just as important to keep water on them when they need it. >..... I always remember the advice >of Fritz Kummert about growing Juno irises: he said they can hardly get too >much water during their spring growth period. Dear Jane; Thanks for this timely reminder. I have seen some quite dry-land iris standing in water seasonally and this emphasizes the natural cycles in areas where they originate. The great Russian Iris expert. G. I. Rodionenko showed me some pictures of spuria iris on a flat plain and flooded by standing water. Makes me have happy thought about the deluge outside (only 1/2 an inch this am). Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Mar 22 10:42:46 2007 Message-Id: <000001c76c90$615ffec0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: OT Magnolia 'Caerhays Belle' was RE: Irrigation Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 10:42:55 -0400 I was sorry to read that this year's display on Jane's Magnolia 'Caerhays Belle' was spoiled by frost. I have this cultivar here in my Maryland garden. It's been here for perhaps ten years and has not yet bloomed. It's growing vigorously and is perhaps fifteen feet high. Jane, how big and/or old was your plant when it started to bloom? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where temperatures into the 70s F are predicted for today. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Mar 22 11:04:08 2007 Message-Id: <000101c76c93$5e4522d0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Narcissus 'February Gold' Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:04:18 -0400 Jay Yourch, in a posting dated 02/16/07, mentioned in passing that Narcissus ‘Ice Follies’ was starting to bloom in his North Carolina garden. This was a bit of a revelation to me, because Jay and I are both nominally in zone 7. Furthermore, I believe that it has occasionally gotten much colder in that area than it has ever during my lifetime here in the greater Washington, D.C. area. I think I’ve read that the temperature in the Raleigh/Durham area have been known to drop to -5ºF or lower on occasion. Narcissus ‘Ice Follies’ has finally come into bloom here in my neighborhood, a full month later than the plants mentioned by Jay. Obviously there is a lot more to winter than low temperatures. A friend who gardens in nearby zone 6 - on a site which slopes into the south east - regularly reports earlier bloom for some plants than I observe in my own garden. Jim Waddick recently mentioned several items which were blooming in his zone 5 Missouri garden: some of those same items are just starting to open for me here. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where my 40+ year old Iris reticulata is blooming today. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Mar 22 11:15:02 2007 Message-Id: <000701c76c94$e36ed680$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: John Grimshaw at Winterthur Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:15:11 -0400 Today's Washington Post contains an article by staff writer Adrian Higgins about John Grimshaw's recent visit to Winterthur to celebrate the snowdrop season. Take a look at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/21/AR2007032100 497.html Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the snowdrop season is rapidly coming to an end. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Mar 22 11:30:47 2007 Message-Id: <000c01c76c97$16934440$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: broken links Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:30:56 -0400 I noticed that the link I gave for the article about John Grimshaw and snowdrops was broken in the version of the message I received. That's because I (deliberately) sent the message as an HTML message, hoping that when it was converted on the other end the link would not break. (I first composed it as plain text on this end, but that did not allow an unbroken link.) I know of two ways of dealing with broken links. One is to copy and paste the url into your browser's search line, fixing the break as you paste. For those of us who use Microsoft Outlook, there is a simpler way: open the message, click on reply, in the reply version of the message click on options, and then change from plain text to HTML. That will automatically repair the break, at which point you simply click on the url and go. What do others do? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where a little bouquet of squills, glories of the snow, snowdrops, crocus, irises, trout lilies, hellebores, witch hazels, winter jasmine, winter aconites and sweet violets is possible today. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Mar 22 12:01:59 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Off hand and Off topic - IBS Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 10:40:47 -0500 Dear friends; Yesterday I received my Bulletin of the International Bulbs Society "BULBS" date Jan-June 2005! The envelope was printed "EXPIERS (sic) END OF PUBLICATION YEAR 2004" I haven't really thought much about IBS since I turned down the opportunity to join their email group a few years ago and stopped sending them my membership renewal. There was a messy and unkind upheaval then that helped generate the PBS and lead to two parallel email groups. The new Bulletin just looks odd and I do not want to point fingers or name names. The article on Rain Lily Breeding is excellent. And there's a lot of interesting stuff I won't specify. The photos in one article are out of focus and almost no pictures have captions underneath them- an odd inconvenience of layout. It just seems like there are some things that are quite wrong with the publication and make me wonder about the organization. I went to their web site which I hadn't done in a year or more and found it odd and put-off-ish too. Yes, some interesting stuff, but odd too. I HAVE NOT looked as critically at the PBS web site for comparison so this is one-sided at best. I have a questions especially for those who are still active in IBS and their email list. - What happened to this organization? I used to think it was excellent and top notch. Now it seems in a sorry second hand state. Is it just me? Just curious if there are others who got the new BULBS or who know what's going on. If you prefer a private response email me at . I retain anonymity. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From msittner@mcn.org Thu Mar 22 11:48:09 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20070322084151.03582ae8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: broken links Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 08:47:02 -0700 Dear All, My Eudora allows me to edit messages I receive and then I can remove broken spaces to repair links and save the message and then click on the link. Roy Herold recently sent me a suggestion in response to a post I wrote about links not wrapping saying it always works for him to surround the link with brackets. Shall we see if it works? Mary Sue From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Mar 22 11:58:36 2007 Message-Id: <000d01c76c9a$fa15bb00$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: broken links Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:58:42 -0400 It worked! And the message itself was received as a plain text message. Thanks, Mary Sue! Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Mar 22 12:28:58 2007 Message-Id: <000f01c76c9c$6c040810$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: broken links Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:09:06 -0400 Let's revise that to "it works sometimes". I copied the link from Mary Sue's posting and pasted it, intact, into a plain text message composed in Microsoft Outlook. I then mailed it to myself to another email address I have which works through Verizon Yahoo. As received in Verizon Yahoo the link was broken. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From john@johnlonsdale.net Thu Mar 22 12:12:35 2007 Message-Id: <00e201c76c9c$ad048100$6901a8c0@XPS400> From: "John T Lonsdale" Subject: broken links Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:10:56 -0400 Alternatively, use TinyURL and you'll never have links long enough to break. http://tinyurl.com/ It is incredibly easy to use. Thanks, J. John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Thu Mar 22 12:42:14 2007 Message-Id: <007401c76ca1$0810ed50$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: John Grimshaw at Winterthur Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 16:42:07 -0000 To continue the saga where Adrian Higgins left off, the Winterthur snowdrops became rapidly submerged in the snow, and stayed that way for the rest of the weekend. In consequence the groups I was supposed to show round in conjunction with my lectures on Saturday & Sunday had a rather minimal viewing of snowdrops... The March Bank at Winterthur is indeed an amazing example of genuinely naturalised bulbs - snowdrops, Leucojum vernum, Narcissus, Crocus, scilloid things etc, but also some extraordinary patches of Adonis amurensis. Well worth seeing in normal conditions! John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP COLESBOURNE PARK OPEN DAYS 2007 Easter Monday 9 April, Arboretum Weekend 15-16 September Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Mar 22 12:49:09 2007 Message-Id: <09719877-824B-42D7-A6FA-DB38902166E8@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: broken links Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:48:59 -0700 I had no trouble with your original link. It appeared on two lines, but I just clicked on it and it worked. I use Mail, the native Apple program. Diane Whitehead From totototo@telus.net Thu Mar 22 13:00:18 2007 Message-Id: <20070322165956.9C34XDBNXD@priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Narcissus 'February Gold' Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:56:33 -0700 On 22 Mar 07, at 11:04, Jim McKenney wrote: > Obviously there is a lot more to winter than low temperatures. A > friend who gardens in nearby zone 6 - on a site which slopes into the > south east - regularly reports earlier bloom for some plants than I > observe in my own garden. Here in Victoria, it's well known (among gardeners) that flowering seasons can differ by as much as two weeks over quite small distances. Some of you may be familiar with the old saw "If you don't like the weather, just wait five minutes." Around here, there's an extra clause: "or walk over a block or two." Victoria is a fairly hilly town, and being on a peninsula, the saltchuck is rarely far away. As a result there is enormous variation in microclimate. You can see this in real time at http://victoriaweather.ca/twod.php?zone=victoria This is based on a network of automated weather stations at local schools and similar places. If you look at these weather maps frequently you will often see quite sharp variations in what's happening. The school closest to me, Campusview Elementary, often differs significantly from the site just NE of it at the Ian Stewart Complex, even though the distance is probably no more than 1000'. Campusview school is in a shallow depression at the north foot of Mt. Tolmie, a 400' eminence, with many trees adjacent, while the Ian Stewart Complex is on a slight rise and is just far enough further north and away from trees to be substantially warmer a great deal of the time. Unfortunately, the Victoria weather network doesn't have closely enough spaced stations to capture the full detail of the variation in microclimate, but it does show some of the variation. And as I drive around the city at this time of year, it's quite striking how certain indicator plants flower much earlier in some locations than in others. Flowering quinces are a good indicator at this time of year; later on California poppies, widely naturalized, will do the job. I've often thought it would be an interesting research project to plot the onset of spring via the flowering of such plants. So it may be that it's not so much there being "more to winter than low temperatures" as it is there being more to the onset of spring. That Jim McKenney's friend has a SE facing garden leads to the surmise that the friend's garden gets more winter insolation and thus experiences soil warming earlier. Bulbs in fl ower as I write: Trillium ovatum x rivale; Anemone appenina & various cultivars of A. blanda; A. caucasicum gone over. Narcissus eystettensis, N. Dove Wings', N. 'Louis Armstrong', N. 'Rip van Winkle'; Cyclamen pseudibericum, C. repandum; C. coum mostly going over. Muscari 'Blueboy' and a host of self-sown seedlings of same just coming into flower. Tecophliaea cyanocrocus leichtlinii still putting on a good show in its pot. Some erythroniums just starting, some in full throat, others completely over. Eranthis completely gone over; Convallaria showing only tight growth buds. N. 'Rijnveld's Early Sensation' long gone. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From dells@voicenet.com Thu Mar 22 16:08:30 2007 Message-Id: <20070322200829.EA71F4C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 141 CLOSED Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 16:08:18 -0400 Dear All, Everything has been claimed. Some things ran quite short. Packages should go out after the weekend. Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Mar 22 19:58:56 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20070322165307.02de3660@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: OT Magnolia 'Caerhays Belle' was RE: Irrigation Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 16:55:00 -0700 Jim asked, >I was sorry to read that this year's display on Jane's Magnolia 'Caerhays >Belle' was spoiled by frost. > >I have this cultivar here in my Maryland garden. It's been here for perhaps >ten years and has not yet bloomed. It's growing vigorously and is perhaps >fifteen feet high. > >Jane, how big and/or old was your plant when it started to bloom? It was about 8 feet tall and had been in the ground about 3 years. It's now about 15 feet tall. It's really a stupid tree to plant where late frosts occur, because the buds and flowers are completely devoid of the "antifreeze" that many deciduous magnolias seem to have. It is in nearly full sun. Jane From putman@pobox.upenn.edu Fri Mar 23 00:28:41 2007 Message-Id: <46035767.3010401@pobox.upenn.edu> From: Stephen Putman Subject: Stem-less Spring Bulbs Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 00:28:23 -0400 I had a fairly large garden of Eastern US woodland wildflowers for about 20 years up until summer 1996. Every so often we would have a spring when many of the plants bloomed just at ground level. I believe (no scientific recording of data here) that the issue was one of the combinations of air temperature and soil temperature. Soil temperature varied rather regularly from year to year, but there could be a spring when a sudden warm (even hot) spell of air temperature could blast flowers which were just emerging from the soil. If the air remained a normal cooler temperature, the stems would elongate prior to the flowers developing and opening. If it suddenly got warmer than normal the flowers would open at whatever stem length they had gotten to before the warm weather. Further, depending upon when in the bloom cycle the warm "snap" occurred, it might have more or less noticeable effect on the flowerings. I have been rather curious about a related matter, that being the issue of stem length at blossom time for Hippeastrum. Some years a particular plant will flower with a nice long stem, and then the following year have just a short and rather unattractive blossom presentation. Somebody must have done some systematic work on stem elongation in Hippeastrum for all the flower trade that goes on. Who knows where this information might be found? Boyce Tankersley wrote: > When I gardened in southern New Mexico the tulips often bloomed at soil > level. Never figured out if it was a lack of sufficient chilling or the > very high sunlight levels that kept the stems from elongating. > From gardenersview@adelphia.net Fri Mar 23 09:29:01 2007 Message-Id: <000001c76d4f$351b6420$6501a8c0@SEKKEI> From: "Terry Hernstrom" Subject: Stem-less Spring Bulbs Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 06:28:54 -0700 Sometimes Clivias in my garden behave the same way. The stems don't elongate and the blooms open deep inside the foliage. The next flowering season the flowering is normal. This may happen to only one plant and all the other plants in close proximity can bloom normal. Strange?? Terry Hernstrom Redlands CA -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Stephen Putman Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 9:28 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Stem-less Spring Bulbs I have been rather curious about a related matter, that being the issue of stem length at blossom time for Hippeastrum. Some years a particular plant will flower with a nice long stem, and then the following year have just a short and rather unattractive blossom presentation. Somebody must have done some systematic work on stem elongation in Hippeastrum for all the flower trade that goes on. Who knows where this information might be found? Boyce Tankersley wrote: > When I gardened in southern New Mexico the tulips often bloomed at soil > level. Never figured out if it was a lack of sufficient chilling or the > very high sunlight levels that kept the stems from elongating. > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri Mar 23 09:52:34 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Peruvian Daffodil Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 08:52:28 -0500 Dear Friends; Last night a friend gave me a bag of dormant bulbs of "Peruvian Daffodil'. I haven't grown these in ages. I recall these are a hybrid usually called Hymenocallis x festalis or so the pbs wiki shows http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Hymenocallis/Hymenocallisxfestalis.jpg I don't recall - sun or shade? Assume moist to damp in spring at least. Anyone have some comments on growing this popular bulb. Plant out after all frosts. And what about "the Yellow One" 'Sulphur Queen'? Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Mar 23 11:01:41 2007 Message-Id: <000301c76d5c$2da7f7f0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Peruvian Daffodil Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 11:01:45 -0400 Jim Waddick asked about Peruvian daffodils. If you can grow tomatoes, you can grow these. They should do very well in Missouri. They are carefree, prolific and floriferous in the right climate (hot summers, humidity is fine, occasional water, reasonable fertility; they are not fussy about soil and apparently are pest free). You do have to dig them in the autumn, and if your back is like mine, you won't appreciate what comes up out of the ground. Traditionally, the name Peruvian daffodil was used for Hymenocallis narcissiflora, a plant known in much of the older popular literature as Ismene calathina. Much of the material which I have seen over the years appears to be clonal in nature and is readily identified because it often produces five parted (instead of six parted) flowers. Jim Waddick mentioned the hybrid ‘festalis’. This is said to have arisen as the result of crossing Hymenocallis narcissiflora and the plant once known as Elisene longipetala. In its original incarnation, it was thus a “bigeneric hybrid”. But Elisene longipetala is now generally called Hymenocallis longipetala. It is available in the trade and resembles the hybrid ‘festalis’ although it has a much smaller corona. ‘Festalis’ itself is widely available in two versions: ‘festalis’ and ‘festalis Zwanenbrug’ – the latter is a bit bigger as I know it. The yellow one, Hymenocallis ×sporfforthiae ‘Sulfur Queen’ is the result of crossing Hymenocallis narcissiflora and H. amancaës. It’s as easily grown as the others. The yellow color is very pale (think Nelumbo lutea or natural butter). It’s very beautiful and, as are the rest, very fragrant. Some of you may be wondering why I wrote the name amancaës with two little dots over the letter e. In Latin, the letter combination ae is a diphthong and is assigned a sound different than the sound of either a or e standing alone. However, in the word amancaës the letter combination ae is not intended to be a diphthong: it is intended to be the sound of the letter a followed by the sound of the letter e. To indicate this, the two little dots (technically, a dieresis, and not to be confused with the umlaut used in German words or with the similar dots used in other languages ) are placed over the e. One consequence: the word amancaës is a four syllable word, not a three syllable word. In the English speaking world the use of the dieresis is obsolescent, some might say obsolete. We generally drop a syllable from these words and thus mispronounce the words where it should be used. Common examples: Aloë (three syllables) , Kalenchoë (four syllables) , Danaë (three syllables). Because American English itself does not have formally recognized diphthongs, the use of the dieresis in American English words is generally regarded as an affectation. When was the last time you saw the word coöperation? Every once in a while a writer will get a bee up his pants about the suffix –oides in botanical names. This suffix is of Greek origin, and in Greek there is a letter combination made up of the letters omicron (short o) and iota (written as i) treated as a diphthong and pronounced as oi in oink. There is a double trap here for the unwary. First of all, when written in Roman characters representing Latin words, the oi in the suffix –oides is not the Greek diphthong just mentioned (even though the suffix is derived from Greek). It is simply the Roman character o followed by the Roman character i. The other part of the trap is this: the letter combination oi is not a diphthong in Latin (or in general in the languages derived from it). Thus, it represents not the oinking sound but simply the sound of the letter o followed by the sound of the letter i. That is also why speakers of so many languages other than English don’t have to be told to include that extra syllable. In English, this oi letter combination gets the oinking sound. In Latinized botanical names, the suffix –oides should not have the oinking sound. One nationally distributed and otherwise well edited popular gardening magazine went through a phase where the suffix –oides in botanical names was printed as –oïdes. This is poor form because it is redundant. Oi is not a diphthong in Latin. There is no need to separate something which is not joined. And I haven’t even had any coffee this morning. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where it's already warm enough for open windows and for the house to be filled with the scent of boxwood. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Mar 23 12:17:27 2007 Message-Id: <000001c76d66$c5f4b930$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Peruvian Daffodil: typos Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:17:35 -0400 Maybe I should have had that cup of coffee! There are at least three typos in my Peruvian daffodil post: Please read Zwanenburg for Zwanenbrug. And please read ×spofforthiae for ×sporfforthiae. And the cultivar name is evidently 'Sulphur Queen', not 'Sulfur Queen'. I hope there are not any more! Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From idavide@sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 23 16:03:53 2007 Message-Id: <817962.80971.qm@web81010.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Stem-less Spring Bulbs Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 13:03:48 -0700 (PDT) ----- Original Message ---- From: Terry Hernstrom gardenersview@adelphia.net Sometimes Clivias in my garden behave the same way. The stems don't elongate and the blooms open deep inside the foliage. The next flowering season the flowering is normal. This may happen to only one plant and all the other plants in close proximity can bloom normal. Strange?? Strange, yes; unusual, no. My Clivias behaved the exact same way. For a while I thought it was insufficient water, but that wasn't the case. Crowding in the pot; bad genes? Who knows. But I hate when there is a stubby inflorescence is all squashed deep between the leaves. Fortunately, the plant will also produce other scapes of proper length, with flowers held above the leaves, at the same time. From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Mar 23 16:04:02 2007 Message-Id: <000401c76d86$6cc518d0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: A new crocus in an old style Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:04:07 -0400 I had a nice surprise in the crocus department today. A distinctive and beautiful self-sown seedling has appeared among the tommies which grow under some Magnolia stellata. This seedling has the silver and amethyst tommy colors, but it's much bigger. The open flower has a wide chalice shape which is very elegant. It's not quite as big as the Dutch crocuses. I suspect that it resulted from a cross between the abundant tommies which surround it and some plants of the very handsome old hybrid 'Vanguard' which grow nearby, although another possibility would be the abundant white-flowered Dutch crocuses which grow here. After writing the above, I went back to Bowles and some other sources to see what might have been available in the past in this style. Several old cultivars which I have never seen such as Margot, Haarlem Gem, and Maximilian might have been similar to my plant. I also read the comments of Bowles with respect to the superabundance of cultivars in the vernus group, and the tendency of raisers to see swans among their own seedlings and mere geese in the seedlings of others. Then I decided that perhaps I had been guilty of a swan sighting. Here's a link where you can see and decide for yourself: http://www.jimmckenney.com/self_sown_crocus_seedling.htm Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where while waiting for some files to upload, I picked up the Plants Delight catalog and learned a new word: Tony, is my crocus a honker? My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Fri Mar 23 16:12:02 2007 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A06E78116@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: A new crocus in an old style Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:12:05 -0500 Very nice. Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel: 847-835-6841 fax: 847-835-1635 email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org From jamievande@freenet.de Fri Mar 23 16:21:42 2007 Message-Id: <460436D5.9060807@freenet.de> From: "JamieV." Subject: A new crocus in an old style Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 21:21:41 +0100 Jim, very smart looking! I like it a lot. Jamie V. Cologne > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > From dkramb@badbear.com Fri Mar 23 22:17:14 2007 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20070323214947.03386b50@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Iris anguifuga Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 21:50:24 -0500 At 10:33 AM 3/13/2007, you wrote: >Dear Friends - > I'd like to draw you attention to a plant I have introduced >into cultivation that bulb growers might find interesting. > > Iris City Gardens has introduced Iris anguifuga, a new >species never available commercially before. read more about it here. > http://www.iriscitygardens.com/newintroductions.html I'll let you know how it does for me in Cincinnati! This first winter was a harsh one (of sorts). I hope it pulled through okay. Dennis in Cincinnati From dkramb@badbear.com Fri Mar 23 21:51:19 2007 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20070323215035.0354db10@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Iris anguifuga Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 21:51:26 -0500 At 10:47 AM 3/13/2007, you wrote: >Dear Jim, > > I want to become a Chinese herbalist! I intend to get Iris anguifuga, >but I don't want to keep snakes away, I like having them in the garden. Too >bad the mice don't; I only wish they got hungry oftener. > > Now, how to say it kindly and gently: "This species has been grown by >Chinese herbalist for centuries, but never brought into cultivation >until..." That's what an English boy would say! Hahaha... I never thought of it in those terms, but you're absolutely right. And I'm glad you said it so kindly and gently. :-) Dennis in Cincy From dkramb@badbear.com Fri Mar 23 22:07:57 2007 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20070323220546.035412c8@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: OT: cool bamboo beans Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 22:08:04 -0500 This is totally OT, but it was utterly fascinating to me to learn that there are native bamboo varieties in North America... let alone the Appalachian Mountains. Where's the American Panda Bear then?!?! Ya gotta love 'dem bears. :-) http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070322/ap_on_sc/new_bamboo This article talks about the "discovery" of a new bamboo species. Dennis in Cincy (where wild pandas haven't been spotted in years) From totototo@telus.net Sat Mar 24 22:34:36 2007 Message-Id: <20070325023435.CDMRPV1U30@priv-edmwaa05.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: A new crocus in an old style Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 19:29:16 -0700 On 23 Mar 07, at 16:04, Jim McKenney wrote: > Several old cultivars which I have never seen such as Margot, Haarlem > Gem, and Maximilian might have been similar to my plant. Haarlem Gem is very similar in coloring to Vanguard, but considerably smaller; more the size of a chrysanthus cultivar than one of the big blowsy vernus ones. I've had it for years, and believe what I have is The Real Thing. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sun Mar 25 09:33:36 2007 Message-Id: <000001c76ee2$382128f0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: A new crocus in an old style Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 09:33:47 -0400 Roger Whitlock wrote: "Haarlem Gem is very similar in coloring to Vanguard, but considerably smaller; more the size of a chrysanthus cultivar than one of the big blowsy vernus ones. I've had it for years, and believe what I have is The Real Thing." Roger, it would be great if you could post a picture of this cultivar. I was hoping someone might pick up on another aspect of my new crocus post. Last summer I received a crocus from Jane McGary under the name 'Yalta'. Later on, I discovered a package of this same 'Yalta' for sale in a local shop. Jane's plant bloomed two weeks ago here and is similar to the crocus whose image I posted. At first I wondered if a squirrel had moved one of the newly acquired crocus 'Yalta'. But I counted corms and all are accounted for. So my self-sown crocus is apparently just that. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the air is moist and sweet with the fragrance of Magnolia stellata and the aromas of soil and new vegetation , the birds and peepers are singing, flowers are blooming: everything is in place for a perfect spring day. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Sun Mar 25 11:05:25 2007 Message-Id: <002701c76eef$0196d610$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: A new crocus in an old style Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 16:05:18 +0100 Despite intentions, I have not had time to reply to Jim McKenney's post about his mystery crocus and he has beaten me to it with the comment about 'Yalta', which it certainly seems to resemble closely. 'Yalta' (also from a package bought last year) is flowering here now, long after the tommies have gone. I was not previously familiar with it. The character I find most distinct is the purple smudge at the base of the outer surface of the outer segments, which are otherwise a 'wrong side of the fabric' grey with a yellowish cast. The tube is also rich purple. These characters are precisely obscured in Jim's photos, but I can see a purple patch on the inner segment. Maybe you can tell us how extensive the mark is on your discovery, Jim. I have long been very fond of 'Haarlem Gem' which is slightly smaller, more angular and paler than 'Yalta'. I believe a photograph of it illustrates my NARGS article from 1997, 'Some spring Crocuses'. Rock Garden Quarterly 55: 93-96, but my copy is elsewhere. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 COLESBOURNE PARK OPEN DAYS 2007 Easter Monday 9 April, Arboretum Weekend 15-16 September Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- From jshaw@opuntiads.com Sun Mar 25 13:45:52 2007 Message-Id: <000c01c76f05$80864030$6501a8c0@Petunia> From: "Joe Shaw" Subject: Hymenocallis and the freeway Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 12:46:13 -0500 Hi Gang, Some years ago (not sure when), the Texas Department of Transportation built a bridge over the Trinity River, near the Gulf of Mexico. This Interstate 10 bridge is much traveled and is being widened. When the original bridge was built the DOT created a wonderful habitat for Hymenocallis liriosme as they prepared land for the bridge and foundations. The soil is deep and rich from the adjacent river, and the location is frequently wet or partially submerged in winter. There are many acres of H. liriosme that bloom each April and May; adjacent areas are rich with Crinum americanum. The H. liriosme plants near the bridge are the largest I've ever observed and have the largest flowers too. Perhaps it is just because the soil is so rich and deep, or perhaps the local race is truly large. However, when I grow the river plants in my garden they are typically twice the height of locally obtained plants (Conroe, TX). The river flowers spread to 8 inches (sometimes a bit more), whereas the Conroe flowers are typically 5-6 inches from spidery tip to spidery tip. Anyway, the DOT created a wonderful habitat, but they are now they are widening the freeway. I passed by recently and great chunks of land have been churned up as a new bridge is being put into place, parallel to the old bridge. I never really calculated the area involved, but I suppose there were about 10 acres of H. liriosme plants in bloom in May 2005 and May 2006. I'm sure that many Hymenocallis will survive, but the large expanse of flowers will be a thing of the past. Perhaps half the area will be lost to the new bridge, perhaps more. I guess it is possible that the current construction will inadvertently create a new expanse of H. liriosme habitat. LINK: Image, H. liriosme below I-10 bridge, Trinity River, TX http://members.aol.com/conroejoe/hymenocallisfreeway1.jpg LINK: Close-up Image, H. liriosme, large-flowered type below bridge http://members.aol.com/conroejoe/hymenocallisfreeway4.jpg Cordially, Joe Conroe TX From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sun Mar 25 15:33:24 2007 Message-Id: <000101c76f14$7b32e2f0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: A new crocus in an old style Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 15:33:34 -0400 John Grimshaw wrote: " Maybe you can tell us how extensive the mark is on your discovery, Jim." I've added two more images of this crocus; please take a look at: http://www.jimmckenney.com/self_sown_crocus_seedling.htm I hope these help with the comparison to the cultivar 'Yalta'. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where all I can say is "what a day!" My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Sun Mar 25 17:01:19 2007 Message-Id: <013e01c76f20$b8395470$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: A new crocus in an old style Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 22:01:06 +0100 Similar, but not the same; 'Yalta' has a much larger, darker mark at the base. Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 COLESBOURNE PARK OPEN DAYS 2007 Easter Monday 9 April, Arboretum Weekend 15-16 September Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk > http://www.jimmckenney.com/self_sown_crocus_seedling.htm > > I hope these help with the comparison to the cultivar 'Yalta'. > > Jim McKenney > From linbetz@gmail.com Sun Mar 25 20:45:39 2007 Message-Id: From: "Lin Betz" Subject: A new crocus in an old style Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 10:45:38 +1000 What a gorgeous little flower Jim Lin in SE Australia From gardenstreet184@yahoo.com Mon Mar 26 03:28:46 2007 Message-Id: <168038.82939.qm@web36403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "C.J. Teevan" Subject: Narcissus 'February Gold' Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 00:28:42 -0700 (PDT) On my suburban Long Island street, Narcissus and crocus in my north-side lawn blooms a full 10 days later than those in the neglected, brown-thumb lawns across the street (they are growing these in Zoysia grass, Zone 7, still haycolored tan while the Crocuses sprout). I was racing to have the FIRST spring sprouts in the neighborhood; I'm never close, and there's NOTHING I can do about it. I need something called 'January Gold'. Please let me know if you find it. Jim McKenney wrote: Jay Yourch, in a posting dated 02/16/07, mentioned in passing that Narcissus ‘Ice Follies’ was starting to bloom in his North Carolina garden. This was a bit of a revelation to me, because Jay and I are both nominally in zone 7. Furthermore, I believe that it has occasionally gotten much colder in that area than it has ever during my lifetime here in the greater Washington, D.C. area. I think I’ve read that the temperature in the Raleigh/Durham area have been known to drop to -5ºF or lower on occasion. Narcissus ‘Ice Follies’ has finally come into bloom here in my neighborhood, a full month later than the plants mentioned by Jay. Obviously there is a lot more to winter than low temperatures. A friend who gardens in nearby zone 6 - on a site which slopes into the south east - regularly reports earlier bloom for some plants than I observe in my own garden. Jim Waddick recently mentioned several items which were blooming in his zone 5 Missouri garden: some of those same items are just starting to open for me here. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where my 40+ year old Iris reticulata is blooming today. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php --------------------------------- Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. From sabepafronta@yahoo.com Mon Mar 26 05:45:24 2007 Message-Id: <630540.22478.qm@web38701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Jacob Knecht Subject: Hymenocallis and the freeway Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 02:45:23 -0700 (PDT) Joe, Thank you so much for sharing such a marvellous view! aloha, Jacob Knecht Honolulu, Hawai`i --- Joe Shaw wrote: > Hi Gang, > > > > Some years ago (not sure when), the Texas Department > of Transportation built > a bridge over the Trinity River, near the Gulf of > Mexico. This Interstate > 10 bridge is much traveled and is being widened. > > > > When the original bridge was built the DOT created a > wonderful habitat for > Hymenocallis liriosme as they prepared land for the > bridge and foundations. > The soil is deep and rich from the adjacent river, > and the location is > frequently wet or partially submerged in winter. > There are many acres of H. > liriosme that bloom each April and May; adjacent > areas are rich with Crinum > americanum. The H. liriosme plants near the bridge > are the largest I've > ever observed and have the largest flowers too. > Perhaps it is just because > the soil is so rich and deep, or perhaps the local > race is truly large. > However, when I grow the river plants in my garden > they are typically twice > the height of locally obtained plants (Conroe, TX). > The river flowers > spread to 8 inches (sometimes a bit more), whereas > the Conroe flowers are > typically 5-6 inches from spidery tip to spidery > tip. > > > > Anyway, the DOT created a wonderful habitat, but > they are now they are > widening the freeway. I passed by recently and > great chunks of land have > been churned up as a new bridge is being put into > place, parallel to the old > bridge. > > > > I never really calculated the area involved, but I > suppose there were about > 10 acres of H. liriosme plants in bloom in May 2005 > and May 2006. I'm sure > that many Hymenocallis will survive, but the large > expanse of flowers will > be a thing of the past. Perhaps half the area will > be lost to the new > bridge, perhaps more. I guess it is possible that > the current construction > will inadvertently create a new expanse of H. > liriosme habitat. > > > > LINK: Image, H. liriosme below I-10 bridge, Trinity > River, TX > > http://members.aol.com/conroejoe/hymenocallisfreeway1.jpg > > > > LINK: Close-up Image, H. liriosme, large-flowered > type below bridge > > http://members.aol.com/conroejoe/hymenocallisfreeway4.jpg > > > > > > Cordially, > > > > Joe > > Conroe TX > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > ____________________________________________________________________________________ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ From Neil.Crawford@volvo.com Mon Mar 26 07:41:25 2007 Message-Id: <16B261F82E2E594895EBA3157EA779AC051ED449@segotn645.vcn.ds.volvo.net> From: "Crawford Neil" Subject: New member and questions about Eastern Cape Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:41:23 +0200 -----Original Message----- From: Crawford Neil Sent: den 26 mars 2007 13:30 To: 'pbs@lists.ibiblio.org' Subject: New member and questions about Eastern Cape Hi all, First I'd like to introduce myself, I'm a Swedish plant lover, married to Ragnhild who loves botany. We have a big garden full of plants, unfortunately we don't have time to look after it properly, plenty of bulbs and geophytes, although I'm afraid nothing very special. We have Leucojum vernum beginning to flower now, later on we have some nice cypripediums, but I don't think they count here, hepatica is another doubtful sort that we have. Other bulbs we have are Hemerocallis, various Irises, and the usual Narcissus,crocus and colchium. Our pacific bulbs are mostly limited to the ones we see on holiday trips, which is really why I'm writing. We had a wonderful holiday on the Western Cape last September, we visited Darling, the West coast NP,then the Bokkeveld plateau, Glenlyon, Papkuilsfontein and Matjesfontein, after that we did Kirstenbosch, Red Hill and the Cape of Good Hope NP. Next stop was the Overberg at Napier, where we visited DeHoop, and Stephen Smuts a local botanist showed us lots of plants. Finally we drove back to Cape Town via Hottentots-Holland where we saw more plants, which Mary-Sue, Cameron and Rhoda have helped us to identify (that was when I found the pbs-list) To top all this we went to Kruger and saw the big five. We really want to do it again, but this time we'd like to go during Febrary, because that's a dismal time in Sweden, and I've heard (from Camerons site) that the summer rainfall flora is good on the Eastern Cape. So we've been planning a trip from Cape Town, through the Overberg again, so we can stay with Stephen, then Wilderness NP or Knysna, stay some time at St. Francis bay (near Port Elizabeth) and then perhaps do a trip up to the Somerset East, Hogsback, Cathcart sort of area. Wainek flower preserve and Barrydale, are places I've read about. We did think of going with Cameron, but I think it's too advanced for us, we want to relax, and even common plants in South Africa, are marvellous to us, so we don't need to hunt for rare plants. We've been reading Tony Avents trip report with Cameron, which has been very helpful, we'd like to do a sort of "light" version of it. What I'd like help with, is what we mustn't miss on a trip from the Cape to Port Elizabeth? We haven't booked anything yet, so if anyone knows a good plant site along the way, or on the Cape, I'd love to hear, I hope this is a suitable subject for the list, as I know many of you do trips to SA to see geophytes. Best regards Neil Crawford From jglatt@hughes.net Mon Mar 26 13:04:19 2007 Message-Id: <4607FA3D.1020107@hughes.net> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: Early Daffodil Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:52:13 -0400 I don't know of any "January Gold" but for sure 'Rijnveld's Early Sensation' is the first daffodil to flower in my garden. Typically it will open its big yellow trumpets in mid-February here in New Jersey, whereas 'February Gold' waits until March. 'Rijnveld's Early Sensation' was in bloom in December 2006, frozen down, and there are a few pathetic yellow buds now struggling at the top of mushy brown stems. But this was an adverse winter for both plants and people. There's also 'Cedric Morris' but he is A) miniature and B) expensive. Judy in New Jersey where lots of Galanthus, masses of Leucojum vernum, smoky purple drifts of Crocus tommasinianus, swatches of golden Eranthis hiemalis and a few white ghosts of E. pinnatifida have convinced me that Spring is indeed returning. From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Mon Mar 26 12:55:06 2007 Message-Id: <20070326165502.86032.qmail@web34309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: OT: cool bamboo beans-Hamamelis Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:55:01 -0700 (PDT) Hello, What is even more fascinating is the new Hamamelis species published in the current issue of Sida (the Arundinaria was published last year in Sida). Having seen it in the wild I can say it is quite different from the 'cane' in Missouri and Arkansas, and the rest of the midwest. It seems the new Hamamelis may be the long lost macrophylla, but is given the name ovalis. Sorry to be off-topic. Aaron Floden --- Dennis Kramb wrote: > This is totally OT, but it was utterly fascinating > to me to learn > that there are native bamboo varieties in North > America... let alone > the Appalachian Mountains. Where's the American > Panda Bear > then?!?! Ya gotta love 'dem bears. :-) > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Mon Mar 26 14:00:41 2007 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: a varmint near-first.... Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:59:23 -0400 Since we finally seem to be past the single digit Fahrenheit nights, a few days ago I removed the pine needle mulch from my flats. At the same time, I also removed the protective covers (inverted propagation flats) from some of the winter colchicums so they could have some breathing space. Today when I checked the "nursery", what should I find but colchicum shoots and corms strewn about, the remains of a squirrel browsing frenzy. I wonder if it managed to get anything down. If so, it's either very sick, very dead, or very gout-free. Russell, where snow remains on the ground and no squirrel remains have so far been found. Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Mar 26 14:06:14 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Early Daffodills and now Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:05:59 -0500 Dear Friends, I can repeat most of Judy's comments. 'Cedric Morris' is very early, very cute. It has bloomed as early as Dec/Jan here, but eventually needs a bell jar or other protection from very cold weather. 'Rynveld's Early Sensation' is also reliably early, but can get zapped by hard frosts. This year only 1/2 or so are blooming well, lots of damage. I think there's a number of other good 'early' daffodils. I have one called "Early to Rise' that's a full size cup and 'Quail' is sometimes early (not this year - barely started to show color). Surely we have some daffodil-istas who can name a few reliable early cvs. (Dave K?). Like so many plant groups, it is a good idea to select early and late blooming cultivars to spread out the season. There's always a few at both extremes that can give you 5 or 6 weeks of flowers instead of one or two. Two worth mentioning that are giving a good show right now are 'Ceylon' a Div 2 with lemony petals contrasting nicely a cheery orange cup. 'Gigantic Star' (Div 1?) (With this name it ought to be) said to be one of the largest cvs to 22 inches and 4 inch flowers. Not quite that here, but still impressively large, vigorous and floriferous. Solid yellow flowers in mass. But I always look forward to last year's 'new' cvs I haven't grown or bloomed yet. and those oddities like 'Xit', 'Chit Chat' etc. So many daffodils, so much fun. best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Mar 26 14:27:56 2007 Message-Id: <000301c76fd4$80897370$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: a varmint near-first.... Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:28:03 -0400 Russell Staford wrote: Today when I checked the "nursery", what should I find but colchicum shoots and corms strewn about, the remains of a squirrel browsing frenzy. " Ah, love those primeurs, especially the ones forced to remove the bitterness... Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Paeonia 'Coral Charm' is a foot out of the ground. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From DaveKarn@aol.com Mon Mar 26 20:35:55 2007 Message-Id: From: DaveKarn@aol.com Subject: Early Daffodils and more than you might ever want to know about them! Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 20:35:40 EDT TO: Jim Waddick and others with an interest in daffodils (and that's everyone, right??) ~ => Surely we have some daffodil-istas who can name a few reliable early cvs. (Dave K?). Well, now, that all depends on how you define early! In milder Mediterranean areas (e.g., California), there are a whole range of multi-flowered types (tazettas) that will bloom as early as late September when soaked once to start them into growth from dormancy, the best known being Paperwhites, Soleil d'Or, Grand Primo, Erlicheer, (through to Spring with things like Golden Dawn, Geranium and Avalanche). One can get at least two months of bloom from these. Then there are newer Fall bloomers, even solidly green-flowered Fall-bloomers, if that is where your fancy takes you . . . During the Winter months (and this has to be in climates where the ground is not frozen for six months of the year or not subject to frequent deep freezing and thawing that will destroy the flowers) one can have week after week of flowers of the so called "hoop petticoat" types, both species and hybrids. Early on, the flowers are mostly a pristine white (N. cantabricus) In late Winter and into early Spring they tend toward yellow, from lemon to molten-gold (N. bulbocodium). If one has access to a cold greenhouse (you have no idea how lucky you are!!!) or a cold frame, pots of these bulbs will be in flower for a month. They're not good indoor plants as they produce a mass of leaves and the bloom stems will readily etiolate in a warm room greatly shortening bloom life. ==> Like so many plant groups, it is a good idea to select early and late blooming cultivars to spread out the season. There's always a few at both extremes that can give you 5 or 6 weeks of flowers instead of one or two. Sound advice. For much of the country, one can have daffodils in bloom for two months with careful selection. In the garden, the earliest large flowered hybrids are in Division 6 (Rapture, Charity May, Jenny, Jetfire, Beryl, Trena, Foundling, Winter Waltz, etc.). The later blooming clones usually have N. jonquilla blood in their makeup. They are usually multi-flowered and fragrant -- a luscious floral blend -- Stratosphere, Flycatcher, Kokopelli, Quail (in particular), Indian Maid, Canary, Hillstar, Dickcissel, Pipit, Eland, etc.). Many of the little trumpet daffodils are very early (Small Talk, Little Beauty, Bird Music, etc.). Many of the miniature jonquil types (Chit Chat, Sabrosa, Xit, Yellow Xit, Pequenita, Sun Disc, etc.) close out the season, along with the forms and hybrids of N. poeticus (Angel Eyes, Cantabile, Poet's Way, Vers Libre, etc.). A long time favorite end of season bouquet for me -- an ethereally fragrant nosegay, really -- is a bunch of Chit Chat and deep blue muscari. ==> Two worth mentioning that are giving a good show right now are 'Ceylon' a Div 2 with lemony petals contrasting nicely a cheery orange cup. While an older clone, it is also very valuable as a daffodil for landscape display because the cup color is sunfast, i.e., it won't burn out in the bright Spring sunshine. There are precious few that possess this most desirable characteristic ==> But I always look forward to last year's 'new' cvs I haven't grown or bloomed yet. And those oddities like 'Xit', 'Chit Chat' etc. So many daffodils, so much fun. As with so many a plant genus, it is always the anticipation of something new to the garden that so increases the anticipation of Spring. With some 10-12,000 probable daffodil clones available someplace in the daffodil world, it would take a lifetime to collect them all . . . {:^) Too, daffodils are pretty scarce in gardens in August and September but this is when the "hopelessly bitten" (as daffodil breeder Murray Evans used to refer to them) can hop a plane for the long flight Down-Under for a satisfying, two month long daffodil fix in their Spring. Thus, with a little effort and the right climate daffodils can become a year 'round flower -- not many geophytes can lay claim to that! Dave Karnstedt Cascade Daffodils P. O. Box 237 Silverton, OR 97381-0237 email: _davekarn@aol.com_ (mailto:davekarn@aol.com) ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Mar 27 14:28:52 2007 Message-Id: <001901c7709d$cbafa210$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Maryland update: numbers 2 and 3 in the tulip sweepstakes Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 14:29:01 -0400 As reported earlier, Tulipa kaufmanniana was the first tulip to bloom here this year. Numbers two and three opened today: Tulipa polychroma and Tulipa ‘Stresa’ (both particular favorites here, the former for its scent and the latter for its vibrant color pattern). I don’t grow Tulipa biflora now, but it’s generally cited as very early also. ‘Stresa’ has the advantage of a very protected spot; near it grows one of the old duc van Tol tulips, and that has a bud showing color, but it is not yet open. Tulipa turkestanica, which grows right next to T. kaufmanniana and T. polychroma, is in advanced but but not yet showing color. Here’s something curious: Eranthis cilicica is just starting to bloom. The hybrid E. × tubergenii ‘Guinea Gold’ is in full bloom. Typical E. hyemalis was over a week or more ago. Today in Montgomery County, Maryland is one of those beguilingly sweet spring days which hints of summer: there are hundreds, probably thousands of richly perfumed flowers of Magnolia stellata scenting the air, and a row of decades-old boxwood is pouring out their bittersweet scent in perfect counterpoint to the sensuous odor of the magnolias. Cardinals, song sparrows, mourning doves, chickadees, titmice, the occasional woodpecker or hawk sing, coo, chortle and cry. It’s warm, too: temperatures are predicted to be well into the 80s F today. It’s the sort of day when it’s hard to stay awake, when it’s tempting to pull out some old recordings of Arie Antiche, sit out in the garden under the pergola and float for awhile on the pervasive sense of languor. There is another deeply moving scent in the air, too: it’s a woodsy scent which I’ve been told is the scent of reactivated actinomycetes in the soil. Of all the scents of the year, this is the one which stirs me the most. That early bulbs show foliage damage is no surprise, but this year many show damaged inflorescences also. The tips of some of the Muscari spikes are brown and dry. Some of the tulip buds show what seems to be cold damage. Some early reticulate iris flowers went bad very quickly: it wasn’t cold damage to the flower itself, it was worse than that. The late freeze killed the new growth right where it emerged from the bulb. The damaged parts pull out of the ground easily. This is one of the dangers of raised beds in our climate. Sweet violets are blooming freely, but in this heat they don’t last long. The native shrub Lindera benzoin is blooming today. I’ll go out later today looking for bloodroot. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the garden toads have yet to start to sing. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Tue Mar 27 19:54:32 2007 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Hippeastrum miniatum Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 23:54:31 +0000 Dear Doug: I was waiting for your message in which you were going to teach me how to obtain seeds from a single clone. Have you distributed all of your miniatum offsets? I do not have this species currently and am interested in it. If you see an image of puniceum, which other species does it remind you? A neighbor has a species that is very robust and that is puniceus by all means; it behaves like a species, produces good seed and a few offsets but I do not want to try bulbs for fear of virus infection. I had a small lawn of its seed but during my year bedridden (2004) this was among those species that were lost. Impossible to trace its origin. Best wishes Alberto> I'll contact you later.> > Doug> > _______________________________________________> pbs mailing list> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _________________________________________________________________ Descubre Live.com - tu propia página de inicio, personalizada para ver rápidamente todo lo que te interesa en un mismo sitio. http://www.live.com/getstarted From rdjenkins@bellsouth.net Tue Mar 27 20:22:13 2007 Message-Id: <003401c770cf$210f71f0$6101a8c0@JenkinsMachine> From: "rdjenkins" Subject: Stem-less Spring Bulbs Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 20:22:03 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Putman" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 12:28 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Stem-less Spring Bulbs > I have been rather curious about a related matter, that being the issue > of stem length at blossom time for Hippeastrum. Some years a particular > plant will flower with a nice long stem, and then the following year > have just a short and rather unattractive blossom presentation. > Somebody must have done some systematic work on stem elongation in > Hippeastrum for all the flower trade that goes on. Who knows where this > information might be found? Can't tell you where to find more on this, but lately I have been reviewing the info on "DIF" in the Ball Red Book as I try to figure out why my 'Minerva' bloomed last September with no stem at all and looked to be going the same way this month. (DIF refers to the difference in temperatures between night and day. Positive DIF is when the day temp is higher than the night and negative DIf is the opposite. Positive DIF lengthens stem and negative DIF halts or slows that lengthening.) The flowers last September were pefectly formed and gorgeous, but only the pedicels and buds poked out of the bulb neck. And I think Minereva may be sensitive to negative DIF. I had my potted Hippis outdoors while the days were still a bit cool (say 55-65F) so they could get some sun and I took them in at night, since the nights would have been too cold for them. This inadverdently gave me negative DIF. I noticed that scape lengthening seemed slower than usual, but once days jumped into the mid 70s and 80s (ah, spring!) with the nights in the 50s and 60s and I left my plants outside, the scapes seemed to get back to business. Minerva grew almost 1/4" over one night. And that brings up another anecdotal reflection. A friend and I were discussing how we had both noticed how much growth our plants' scapes made overnight as opposed to over a day's time. So, if it is true that Hippeastrums do continue to grow as much or more at night as they do during the day, the night temperature may be crucial to proper scape growth. Much of my collection is made up of modern large-flowered hybrids and they seem to prefer days 75F and above with nights maybe 5-10 degrees cooler. I don't think the sunny days weren't especially helpful due to the too-cool temps. The negative DIF was also working against them.The color on some of them (and some Crinums as well) looked a bit chlorotic, a little too chartreuse for comfort. Negative DIF again. Now, if I could find the website where I saw daily temps archived for my area from last year, I might check to see if there were some sudden cool day-warm nights thrown in there that may have hit Minerva at a vulnerable moment. The effects of neg and pos DIF take effect immediately so the plants responds one way or the other right then, no lag or drag. But aren't other plants known to never get over a chill at the wrong time? Plenty. Just speculating, you know........ Robert. From msittner@mcn.org Tue Mar 27 22:37:17 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20070327193511.02b619e0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Sandersonia Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 19:36:39 -0700 Hi, This message came in as a bounce from a new subscriber. It was written in html instead of text and that may be why it didn't go to the group. Message below: We have found that Terraclor is effective as a preplant dip for Sandersonia. Kind regards Raj Rughunanan cell:+64-27-4810365 Office:+64-9-2947881 245 Bremner Rd Drury, Auckland New Zealand www.greenharvestexports.co.nz From raj@greenharvestexports.co.nz Tue Mar 27 22:39:32 2007 Message-Id: From: "Raj Rughunanan" Subject: Sandersonia diseases Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 14:39:22 +1200 We have found that Terraclor is effective as a preplant dip for Sandersonia. Kind regards Raj Rughunanan cell:+64-27-4810365 Office:+64-9-2947881 245 Bremner Rd Drury, Auckland New Zealand www.greenharvestexports.co.nz From jyourch@nc.rr.com Tue Mar 27 23:14:23 2007 Message-Id: <001e01c770e7$33f59fc0$0200a8c0@Office> From: "Jay Yourch" Subject: Early Daffodills and now Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 23:14:30 -0400 Hi Jim, I just recently added 'Quail' (Div 7) and 'Gigantic Star' (Div 2) to the wiki, and updated 'Ceylon' (Div 2) with new pictures. I had a new one, at least new to me, bloom for me this week named 'Golden Echo' (Div 7) that I think is awesome. Here are the links: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusHybrids#Quail http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusHybrids#Gigantic http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusHybrids#Ceylon http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusHybrids#Echo Regards, Jay Jim Waddick wrote: I think there's a number of other good 'early' daffodils. I have one called "Early to Rise' that's a full size cup and 'Quail' is sometimes early (not this year - barely started to show color). Surely we have some daffodil-istas who can name a few reliable early cvs. (Dave K?). Like so many plant groups, it is a good idea to select early and late blooming cultivars to spread out the season. There's always a few at both extremes that can give you 5 or 6 weeks of flowers instead of one or two. Two worth mentioning that are giving a good show right now are 'Ceylon' a Div 2 with lemony petals contrasting nicely a cheery orange cup. 'Gigantic Star' (Div 1?) (With this name it ought to be) said to be one of the largest cvs to 22 inches and 4 inch flowers. Not quite that here, but still impressively large, vigorous and floriferous. Solid yellow flowers in mass. From eagle85@flash.net Tue Mar 27 23:26:06 2007 Message-Id: <360CC322-DCE4-11DB-AF95-00050277B6E6@flash.net> From: Doug Westfall Subject: Hippeastrum miniatum Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 20:24:25 -0800 > Alberto, The system is rather easy. Take the pollen from a "related" flower (in this case, another Hippeastrum), place it in a micro-wave for 20 seconds (this kills the reproductive properties of the "donor" pollen), mix it with the pollen of the flower that you wish to produce seeds. Apply the mixed pollen to the desired flower and it will cause the flower to receive its own pollen. Now this seems a little fantastic, but it was recommended to me, I tried it on Sprekelia howardii and it worked. I had tried for several years to pollinate Sprekelia howardii without success. Since I am not a Botanist of a geneticist, that is all that I can tell you - it worked. It is certainly worth a try! Give it a go and let me know if it works for you. I will be trying it again this year. Best of luck, Doug From agoston.janos@citromail.hu Wed Mar 28 04:39:14 2007 Message-Id: <015901c77114$6c4a1ef0$0d4afea9@gzw1jo1xwad0ctx> From: "Agoston Janos" Subject: Early Daffodills and now Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 10:38:12 +0200 We bought some hundred Quail. Now they are over, but from 15 5 was infected with a kind of virus disease. All Muscari (armeniacum 'Fantasy Creation', armeniacum 'Blue Spike', aucheri 'Blue Magic', aucheri 'Mount Hood', armeniacum 'Valerie Finnes') are considered infected, cause there are stripes on the foliage. All of my Allium rosenbachianum are also infected... Nice pictures! ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay Yourch To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 5:14 AM Subject: [pbs] Early Daffodills and now Hi Jim, I just recently added 'Quail' (Div 7) and 'Gigantic Star' (Div 2) to the wiki, and updated 'Ceylon' (Div 2) with new pictures. I had a new one, at least new to me, bloom for me this week named 'Golden Echo' (Div 7) that I think is awesome. Here are the links: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusHybrids#Quail http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusHybrids#Gigantic http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusHybrids#Ceylon http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusHybrids#Echo Regards, Jay Jim Waddick wrote: I think there's a number of other good 'early' daffodils. I have one called "Early to Rise' that's a full size cup and 'Quail' is sometimes early (not this year - barely started to show color). Surely we have some daffodil-istas who can name a few reliable early cvs. (Dave K?). Like so many plant groups, it is a good idea to select early and late blooming cultivars to spread out the season. There's always a few at both extremes that can give you 5 or 6 weeks of flowers instead of one or two. Two worth mentioning that are giving a good show right now are 'Ceylon' a Div 2 with lemony petals contrasting nicely a cheery orange cup. 'Gigantic Star' (Div 1?) (With this name it ought to be) said to be one of the largest cvs to 22 inches and 4 inch flowers. Not quite that here, but still impressively large, vigorous and floriferous. Solid yellow flowers in mass. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php From sabepafronta@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 05:41:56 2007 Message-Id: <876243.24614.qm@web38708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Jacob Knecht Subject: Doug's Self-pollination strategy Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 02:41:55 -0700 (PDT) Doug, That's a remarkable technique! Have you raised seedlings that bloom true from this method? This is very exciting for me because I own only single clones my rare Haemanthus and they are very reluctant to set any seed when self pollinated. Aloha, Jacob Knecht Honolulu, Hawai`i --- Doug Westfall wrote: > > Alberto, > > The system is rather easy. > > Take the pollen from a "related" flower (in this > case, another > Hippeastrum), place it in a micro-wave for 20 > seconds (this kills the > reproductive properties of the "donor" pollen), mix > it with the pollen > of the flower that you wish to produce seeds. Apply > the mixed pollen > to the desired flower and it will cause the flower > to receive its own > pollen. > > Now this seems a little fantastic, but it was > recommended to me, I > tried it on Sprekelia howardii and it worked. I had > tried for several > years to pollinate Sprekelia howardii without > success. Since I am not a > Botanist of a geneticist, that is all that I can > tell you - it worked. > > It is certainly worth a try! Give it a go and let me > know if it works > for you. I will be trying it again this year. > > Best of luck, > > Doug > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Mar 28 13:07:14 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Early Daffodils and more than you might ever want to know about them! Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 08:17:28 -0500 Dear Dave and all, Thanks. Contrary to more than you might ever.... this just makes me want more. Although I can't grow the earliest paperwhites, I can grow 'Minnow' (with foliage damage from too early sprouts and 'Gernanium' does very well. The "Hoop Petticoats' are a near total loss outdoors, but with minimum protection of a cold frame or cool greenhouse they are very nice. I like the Div 6 suggestions and my fall bulb shopping list will be a bit longer. Thanks for all the info and temptations. Another favorite right now is the late Sid Dubose' "Raspberry Rose' - a wonderful combination of peachy pink and white. "Hopelessly bitten" ? Maybe, but not quite ready to fly 'down under' for a second spring. And I am glad to put in a word for Dave's own daffodil sales (Cascade Daffodils). Ask to get his list when it is available. best Jim W. and Jay thanks for the new pix. I really like 'Goden Echo', a good contrast. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From sabepafronta@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 12:20:29 2007 Message-Id: <277572.71344.qm@web38703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Jacob Knecht Subject: Doug's Self-pollination strategy Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:20:29 -0700 (PDT) Doug, That's very exciting news! Do keep us posted on the progress of your seedlings, this method sounds like quite a breakthrough. Jacob --- Doug Westfall wrote: > > On Wednesday, March 28, 2007, at 01:41 AM, Jacob > Knecht wrote: > > > That's a remarkable technique! Have you raised > > seedlings that bloom true from this method? > > Jacob, > > The method was recommended to me by a Botanist and I > tried it last > year. As I mentioned, the Sprekelia did set seeds > and they germinated. > The year old seedlings a have string diameter leaves > which are in > character for the S. howardii. > > Doug > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > ____________________________________________________________________________________ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 From eagle85@flash.net Wed Mar 28 11:41:16 2007 Message-Id: From: Doug Westfall Subject: Doug's Self-pollination strategy Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 08:39:37 -0800 On Wednesday, March 28, 2007, at 01:41 AM, Jacob Knecht wrote: > That's a remarkable technique! Have you raised > seedlings that bloom true from this method? Jacob, The method was recommended to me by a Botanist and I tried it last year. As I mentioned, the Sprekelia did set seeds and they germinated. The year old seedlings a have string diameter leaves which are in character for the S. howardii. Doug From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Mar 28 12:51:26 2007 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20070328095132.026d85e0@mail.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Early Daffodills and now Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:54:13 -0700 Several people mentioned 'Quail' as an early daffodil. A couple of years ago I bought a large number of these (Dutch-grown) for the garden, then read that the stock was likely infected with a virus. Sure enough, when they came up, they were streaked and distorted, so I dug them up and disposed of them. This year I also noticed some faint, pale streaking on foliage of Narcissus alpestris (also known as N. moschatus), a species that has always been difficult here (and elsewhere). I wonder if it's particularly susceptible to Narcissus viruses. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From maxwithers@gmail.com Wed Mar 28 13:45:01 2007 Message-Id: <460AA98E.1030900@gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: Stem-less Spring Bulbs Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 10:44:46 -0700 I planted 3 Erythronium californicum "White beauty" bulbs last September. The first plant sent up a flower that was already open when the scape emerged, around February 20. The scape continued to grow until it reached a normal height, by which time the flower had rotated down into its normal position (and anthesis had ended). The second plant flowered normally approximately 1 month later -- except it only had 4 tepals. The third has yet to appear. I can't imagine that any of this was inspired by a lack of chill, as we had an abnormally cold winter (though potentially less total chill accumulation than at Telos, where the bulbs originated). Most likely they are being fussy about transplanting and/or my garden conditions. So chill or the lack thereof is not the only thing that can cause plants to behave this way. Best, Max Oakland PS: I don't know about other states, but UC Davis keeps track of California chill accumulations here: http://fruitsandnuts.ucdavis.edu/chillcalc/index1.htm PPS: for the curious, my freakish Erythroniums are pictured here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/badthings/tags/erythroniumcalifornicum/ > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 20:22:03 -0400 > From: "rdjenkins" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Stem-less Spring Bulbs > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > > Can't tell you where to find more on this, but lately I have been reviewing the info on "DIF" in the Ball Red Book as I try to figure out why my 'Minerva' bloomed last September with no stem at all and looked to be going the same way this month. > > (DIF refers to the difference in temperatures between night and day. Positive DIF is when the day temp is higher than the night and negative DIf is the opposite. Positive DIF lengthens stem and negative DIF halts or slows that lengthening.) From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 13:48:37 2007 Message-Id: <793924.76681.qm@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: Early Daffodills -moschatus Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 10:48:32 -0700 (PDT) Hello, My experience with alpestris/moschatus is the same. They came up the first year, bloomed and the foilage started showing streaking. The next year a few leaves came up all distorted and discolored, and nothing the next. So is the cultivated stock difficult because the virus, or is the species difficult? Most Narcissus species that I have grown seem fairly easy. Aaron Floden Stilwell, Kansas --- Jane McGary wrote: > This year I also noticed some faint, pale streaking > on foliage of Narcissus > alpestris (also known as N. moschatus), a species > that has always been > difficult here (and elsewhere). I wonder if it's > particularly susceptible > to Narcissus viruses. > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon, USA > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Mar 29 15:08:04 2007 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Adaptable Juno irises -Raise you with a Pair Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 13:46:45 -0500 >'Sindpers' is a Juno (Scorpiris) hybrid introduced in Holland in the 1890s. Dear friends, Since our recent talk preceded actual Juno bloom, I failed to mention a pair of easy and intriguing Junos: 'Warlsind" a hybrid between I. warleyensis x I sindjarensis which may actually be some other hybrid such as warleyensis x aucheri or x bucharica. Intriguing colors of white with contrasting pattern of yellow and brown on a medium height Juno. 'Blue Warlsind' As above, but on a pale blue ground. Both are in bloom now and both are easy and vigorous here; "adaptable' in Jane's original message. More to add to you bulb list. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From rosesrus@sbcglobal.net Thu Mar 29 20:38:59 2007 Message-Id: <276758.93807.qm@web82201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Norman Rose Subject: Sinningia Aghensis Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:38:58 -0700 (PDT) Hi all, I will be receiving a tuber of Sinningia Aghensis in the next day or so from the last BX offering. After searching the web & viewing all the PBS archives I still have a couple questions. Should the soil be made up mostly of pumice & pea gravel and a little compost? Can it take full sun here in Z9 Northern California? I will have this in a pot can it survive outside in the winter or should it be kept inside and kept dry? thank you Norman Rose Z9 San Jose California From gardenstreet184@yahoo.com Fri Mar 30 00:12:10 2007 Message-Id: <907992.93566.qm@web36415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "C.J. Teevan" Subject: Thin Stemmed Tulips Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 21:12:09 -0700 (PDT) My sister grows Tulips, down in North Carolina, and this year she says the stems are not strong enough to hold them up. My guess is that she replaces them every 3 years or so. I hate to admit not knowing the answer to her but I am not sure why this would happen unless there was some mineral deficiency, or a frost that destroyed the stem, or ??? Any theories and is this deja vu for anyone else? I have never, never had this problem. --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. From othonna@gmail.com Fri Mar 30 02:34:35 2007 Message-Id: <8e8da5260703292334u1336297ap6b77ee0f78fd70b9@mail.gmail.com> From: "Dylan Hannon" Subject: Sinningia Aghensis Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 23:34:35 -0700 Norman, A simple peat + perlite mix with a little sand (10-15%) works well with sinningias in general. Most like bright light but not direct sun and ample water and fertilizer while in growth. Let dry somewhat between waterings. I'm not sure about this particular species but it probably will go dormant in winter, when it needs a dry cool rest. In other words protect from cold+rain by keeping indoors or on a sheltered patio. Pot it up in a container just large enough to fit the tuber snugly, with the top of the tuber exposed. If needed (too frequent watering required) it can be moved to a bigger pot while in growth. Good luck, Dylan On 3/29/07, Norman Rose wrote: > Hi all, > I will be receiving a tuber of Sinningia Aghensis in > the next day or so from the last BX offering. After > searching the web & viewing all the PBS archives I > still have a couple questions. Should the soil be made > up mostly of pumice & pea gravel and a little compost? > Can it take full sun here in Z9 Northern California? I > will have this in a pot can it survive outside in the > winter or should it be kept inside and kept dry? > thank you > Norman Rose > Z9 San Jose California > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From dells@voicenet.com Fri Mar 30 07:03:02 2007 Message-Id: <20070330110302.301314C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: FW: Green & yellow shipping labels to the US Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 07:02:49 -0400 _____ From: Joyce Fingerut [mailto:alpinegarden@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:25 AM To: 'larry'; meribush@aol.com; 'John van der Linde'; dcthree@juno.com; Joyce Fingerut; dmahr@plantpath.wisc.edu; 'Doreen & Dave Richards'; Marc.Colombel@wanadoo.fr; Berit K. Ostby / Eivind Damsleth; John Saxton; Ian Plenderleith; Morgan Smith; sueh@zimmer.csufresno.edu; Jody Haynes; Denvrbob@aol.com; 'Alan Hill'; Holubec; 'The Seed Savers' Network'; Scott Cook; Malcolm McGregor; 'clematiscorner'; 'Ghan Chee'; J.E. Shields; 'Ray Stephenson'; plants_man@bigpond.com; 'Leo Smit'; 'The Chandlers'; 'Chris Vlok'; 'Edward Buyarski'; Ron Lance; fbrawnerwv@aol.com; Dell Sherk; 'Allison Laurie'; Chris Moore; 'P & A Downs'; sydneycarnivorous@iinet.net.au; gardens@molalla.net; 'Barry Wright'; 'plorenz'; 'Tony Palmer'; Eric Gouda; schultz; caroleq@bigpond.com; Ian Bainbridge; gregg@millergarden.org Subject: Green & yellow shipping labels to the US Hello everyone - We in the US found an interesting glitch in those green & yellow shipping labels that we supply to overseas organizations (and private seedsmen) for shipping seeds to their US members. All international addresses should have the country name as the last line, but APHIS did not print "United States" (or even "U.S.A.") on the labels. In general, this was not a problem. But the inspection station at JFK airport - which receives all the seeds from Europe - is in Jamaica, New York (printed "Jamaica, NY"). So, you can imagine the problem! NARGS found that over two dozen of its donors' shipments spent a month in Jamaica last Fall, before being forwarded to the US. That detour held up the collating and printing of the seed list. And I don't know how many US members of overseas organizations have seen a delay this Spring in receiving their requested seeds. Although this issue had been pointed out to (and acknowledged by) APHIS a year ago, nothing was done. However, conversations with APHIS staff last week have produced results. New labels have been printed and will be used in the future. But, in the meantime, those organizations and seedsmen who receive the old labels for shipping should print "U.S.A." on the shipping envelope beneath the green&yellow label (nothing should be written on the label). I know that this is an extra step in the already tedious process of distributing/shipping seeds, but US seed-lovers will be grateful for the timely receipt of their seeds. It would be appreciated if you could also pass this information to private seedsmen and other shippers that you know, who would not be on this list. Thank you all very much. With best regards - Joyce Joyce Fingerut Government Liaison, North American Rock Garden Society http://www.nargs.org From arnold@nj.rr.com Fri Mar 30 07:26:52 2007 Message-Id: <460D01CE.1080106@nj.rr.com> From: arnold trachtenberg Subject: FW: Green & yellow shipping labels to the US Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 07:25:50 -0500 Angela: You can't start with geography and names of places you'll never get to the end. We have an Albany New York, Albany, Georgia and who knows what other Albany's are out there. Guantanemo is in Cuba where Mr. Hicks is currently residing. Arnold Leonia , New Jersey (I think there is a Leonia, Finland) From piabinha@yahoo.com Fri Mar 30 13:02:00 2007 Message-Id: <494410.8430.qm@web51904.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Sinningia aghensis Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 10:02:00 -0700 (PDT) hi norman, this particular species will take full sun in its native habitat (Espirito Santo state, in southeastern brazil). i sent seed to the PBS, and the tuber you are getting might be a descendant of my plant. Sinningias for the most part are not true terrestrial plants, but grow in forest litter on rocks (lithophytes) or sometimes on trees (epiphytes). the soil mix as described by dylan is a good recipe. do not treat it as a cactus, it needs a richer substrate. both my plants go dormant every year around winter time. one of my tubers bloomed just this past month; the 2nd one just started putting out new growth last week. i have them in a south window in my apt. but even that is not enough light for them. they really like to be baked in full sun. watering of course should be kept up during this growing period. although i'll say, if your tuber is a small one, it might need some protection from full sun. it'll probably be hardy in CA, but it should be protected from frost of course. hope this helps. tsuh yang --- Dylan Hannon wrote: > Norman, > A simple peat + perlite mix with a little sand > (10-15%) works well > with sinningias in general. Most like bright light > but not direct sun > and ample water and fertilizer while in growth. Let > dry somewhat > between waterings. I'm not sure about this > particular species but it > probably will go dormant in winter, when it needs a > dry cool rest. In > other words protect from cold+rain by keeping > indoors or on a > sheltered patio. > Pot it up in a container just large enough to fit > the tuber snugly, > with the top of the tuber exposed. If needed (too > frequent watering > required) it can be moved to a bigger pot while in > growth. > > Good luck, > > Dylan > > On 3/29/07, Norman Rose > wrote: > > Hi all, > > I will be receiving a tuber of Sinningia Aghensis > in > > the next day or so from the last BX offering. > After > > searching the web & viewing all the PBS archives I > > still have a couple questions. Should the soil be > made > > up mostly of pumice & pea gravel and a little > compost? > > Can it take full sun here in Z9 Northern > California? I > > will have this in a pot can it survive outside in > the > > winter or should it be kept inside and kept dry? > > thank you > > Norman Rose > > Z9 San Jose California ____________________________________________________________________________________ No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail From fbiasella@watertownsavings.com Fri Mar 30 13:06:12 2007 Message-Id: <005801c772ed$9effd350$55a7f10a@wsbmain.net> From: "Fred Biasella" Subject: sinningia sylvatica Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 13:05:29 -0400 Hello All, I don't want to kill this gesneriad like I did the last one, so I'm asking the group what their growing requirements. The last time I grew them, they did wonderfully and even flowered but I let the soil dry out thinking they should be treated like achimenes. Boy was I wrong!!! When I looked in the pot for the rhizomes, I found dry little stubs with absolutely no hope of resuscitation. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Warm Regards, Fred Biasella From piabinha@yahoo.com Fri Mar 30 14:10:44 2007 Message-Id: <432700.45037.qm@web51911.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Gloxinia (Seemannia) sylvatica Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 11:10:44 -0700 (PDT) hi fred, please note it's Gloxinia sylvatica, not a Sinningia. actually based on recent DNA work, they have proposed transferring it to the ressurrected Seemannia genus, so it should be Seemannia sylvatica in the future. it's a very tropical plant, and i have not had any luck growing indoors. but i have seen it growing outside as a roadside weed while traveling in brazil. it seems to like humid, somewhat shady conditions. but others who grow it outside can better comment on it. good luck. tsuh yang --- Fred Biasella wrote: > I don't want to kill this gesneriad like I did the > last one, so I'm asking > the group what their growing requirements. The last > time I grew them, they > did wonderfully and even flowered but I let the soil > dry out thinking they > should be treated like achimenes. Boy was I wrong!!! > When I looked in the > pot for the rhizomes, I found dry little stubs with > absolutely no hope of > resuscitation. Any help will be greatly appreciated. > Warm Regards, > Fred Biasella ____________________________________________________________________________________ Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html From sussli@netscape.com Fri Mar 30 17:59:58 2007 Message-Id: <20070330145954.9CDAD742@resin10.mta.everyone.net> From: Subject: Sinningia Aghensis Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 14:59:54 -0700 Hi Norman, From my experience no sinningia tuber does well in a cactus type mix, made up mainly of pumice and pea gravel. I use a 1-1-1 type mix made up of: 1 part of a good quality planting mix (Supersoil, Miracle-Gro, etc.) 1 part Perlite 1 part Peat Moss then I add 2-3 heaping tablespoons of crushed egg shells per quart (or litre) of this mix. A national authority on sinningias lives just a few miles up the road from you in Palo Alto. His name is Alan LaVerne and he is a big believer in using Supersoil only for all his sinningias. He does admit to a few failures with this mix though. He has a fun website to peruse, called Sinningias and friends. Try it at http://home.earthlink.net/~sinnvenner/sinns.htm He grows and does describe & discuss Sinningia aghensis. Gene/San Francisco (San Mateo for you) --- rosesrus@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Norman Rose To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Sinningia Aghensis Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:38:58 -0700 (PDT) Hi all, I will be receiving a tuber of Sinningia Aghensis in the next day or so from the last BX offering. After searching the web & viewing all the PBS archives I still have a couple questions. Should the soil be made up mostly of pumice & pea gravel and a little compost? Can it take full sun here in Z9 Northern California? I will have this in a pot can it survive outside in the winter or should it be kept inside and kept dry? thank you Norman Rose Z9 San Jose California _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php _____________________________________________________________ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. From idavide@sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 30 19:46:21 2007 Message-Id: <782221.67257.qm@web81006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: FW: Green & yellow shipping labels to the US Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:46:20 -0700 (PDT) the inspection station at JFK airport - which receives all the seeds from Europe - is in Jamaica, New York (printed "Jamaica, NY"). So, you can imagine the problem! FYI -- Jamaica, is not a city in New York; rather it is just a section in the borough of Queens in the city of New York, so the airport is really in New York, NY. But, just as the people in Brooklyn use Brooklyn, NY not New York, NY, as their mailing address, so the folks in Jamaica, Queens, New York City, New York, may use Jamaica or Queens in their mailing address. However, the airport is actually in a section known as Idlewild, rather than Jamaica; in fact, before the Kennedy assassination, the airport was known as Idlewild with call letters IDW, not JFK. From dkramb@badbear.com Fri Mar 30 19:08:59 2007 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.1.20070330190758.01b22360@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Iris bucharica Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 19:09:07 -0500 Iris bucharica is blooming now along with daffodils and fritillarias. Also my first Viola sororia bloomed today. :-) I'm actually trying this one as a houseplant now too. I have so many in my lawn I figured it'd be fun to try it indoors for a change. Dennis in Cincy (where it's summer already??) From eagle85@flash.net Fri Mar 30 22:31:00 2007 Message-Id: <00A38538-DF38-11DB-A10A-00050277B6E6@flash.net> From: Doug Westfall Subject: Veltheimia bracteata yellow flame w/variegated leaves Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 19:29:15 -0800 A beautiful Veltheimia w/yellow flowers and variegated leaves has been added to the wiki. http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Veltheimia/ Veltheimia_bracteata_leaf_vars_DW.jpg Doug Westfall From ron_redding@hotmail.com Sat Mar 31 03:26:14 2007 Message-Id: From: "Ronald Redding" Subject: Veltheimia bracteata yellow flame w/variegated leaves Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 17:26:08 +1000 Doug Thanks very much for sharing that with us, anytime you want to share the plant with me I would be happy to accept. Kind Regards and Best Wishes Ron Redding Hervey Bay Australia _________________________________________________________________ Advertisement: Your Future Starts Here. Dream it? Then be it! Find it at www.seek.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Ftracking%3Dsk%3Ahet%3Ask%3Anine%3A0%3Ahot%3Atext&_t=754951090&_r=seek&_m=EXT From angelasgarden2@bigpond.com Fri Mar 30 06:30:06 2007 Message-Id: <00cc01c773ae$7264c960$6dbab07c@acer6fa91de09f> From: "Angela" Subject: Thin Stemmed Tulips Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 00:05:45 +0800 Hello All I know is the longer the chilling period (ie was it a very cold winter?) the longer the stem cheers Angela Oz ----- Original Message ----- From: "C.J. Teevan" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Thin Stemmed Tulips > My sister grows Tulips, down in North Carolina, and this year she says the > stems are not strong enough to hold them up. My guess is that she > replaces them every 3 years or so. I hate to admit not knowing the answer > to her but I am not sure why this would happen unless there was some > mineral deficiency, or a frost that destroyed the stem, or ??? Any > theories and is this deja vu for anyone else? I have never, never had > this problem. > > > --------------------------------- > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From angelasgarden2@bigpond.com Fri Mar 30 07:11:04 2007 Message-Id: <00fd01c773b4$2c1723d0$6dbab07c@acer6fa91de09f> From: "Angela" Subject: FW: Green & yellow shipping labels to the US Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 00:46:44 +0800 Am I dumb? But I assumed Jamaiica , meant Jamaiica, ie Guantanemo bay or whatever? Sorry, I don't mean to get political or anything, but being an Aussie, I thought Jamaica, you know. I didn't know there is one of these in New York. Don't worry, we have a Denmark that is 30 minutes away from Albany, Western Australia Angela ----- Original Message ----- From eagle85@flash.net Sat Mar 31 12:12:35 2007 Message-Id: From: Doug Westfall Subject: Veltheimia bracteata yellow flame w/variegated leaves Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 09:10:51 -0800 On Friday, March 30, 2007, at 11:26 PM, Ronald Redding wrote: > Thanks very much for sharing that with us, anytime you want to share > the > plant with me I would be happy to accept. > > Kind Regards and Best Wishes > Ron Redding ************* Thanks, Ron I did offer some seeds last year. This year, I will sow all of the seeds. I do have a few seedlings (as the seeds come true to the "parent" bulb) and a few offsets. You will know when I decide to trade them off. Doug From alanidae@gmail.com Sat Mar 31 21:44:23 2007 Message-Id: From: "Alani Davis" Subject: New photographs Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 21:44:22 -0400 Everyone - I added a number of photos (and some new genera) to the WIKI today. Check the following if you are interested:[Calopogon], [Cleistes], [Erythronium], [Gloriosa], [Lilium], [Listera], [Medeola], [Platanthera], [Tibularia], [Trillium]. Alani Davis Tallahassee, Florida where 20 Crinums are in flower and the hummingbirds are all over the Aloes and Salvia greggii. From plantdoctor333@aol.com Sat Mar 31 22:39:44 2007 Message-Id: <8C9421E1F41E44A-1544-507A@WEBMAIL-MA15.sysops.aol.com> From: plantdoctor333@aol.com Subject: New photographs Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 22:39:36 -0400 HI-alani--i am new to pbs posts--do you ever trade or sell your crinums and other beauties!!--thanks,floyd -----Original Message----- From: alanidae@gmail.com To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 9:44 PM Subject: [pbs] New photographs Everyone - I added a number of photos (and some new genera) to the WIKI today. Check the following if you are interested:[Calopogon], [Cleistes], [Erythronium], [Gloriosa], [Lilium], [Listera], [Medeola], [Platanthera], [Tibularia], [Trillium]. Alani Davis Tallahassee, Florida where 20 Crinums are in flower and the hummingbirds are all over the Aloes and Salvia greggii. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.