From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Apr 1 00:13:37 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Chionodoxa etc. Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 23:13:43 -0500 Dear All, It seems like Chionodoxa cultivars can come in pink, white or blue. Blue seems the most typical, but my favorite is C. forbesii 'Pink Giant. It is large (relatively) vigorous and persists. I've tried as many as I can reasonably get my hands on and this definitely performs better than all others. Still missing 'Blue giant"... one of these days. ....and by the way, the blue (typical ) Scilla bifolia continues to impress for its small (even minute) size. It self sews around the garden and can come up thickly enough to put on a show. I've tried both pink and white forms, but the blue does best. And the first daffodils have started: 'Rynveld's Early Sensation', ' Early to Rise', 'Gigantic Star' (in a warm spot), a couple cyclaminus cvs. and more each day. And another thanks to the BX (Roy Herold, I think) for the Corydalis solida 'Eco Special Pink' putting on a nice little show. Quite a flashy hot pink ! I hope everyone is experiencing the start of spring. Best to all. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Tue Apr 1 00:21:40 2008 Message-Id: <002e01c893af$df75ac50$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: black spot on anthers in daffodils Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 05:21:31 +0100 Ben I spent some time yesterday looking for black apiculi, but found them only in an old clone of a Div 1 YY yellow trumpet daffodil. Presumably aff. hispanicus. The only wild taxon I have here with pure yellow flowers is N. perez-chiscanoi and that does not have them. Very curious about your train of enquiry.... John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 ----- Original Message ----- From: "B.J.M. Zonneveld" > Dear Daffodil lovers > Let see what power the internet has. I am looking for the > following:Could you check of you have any trumpet daffodil with a black > spot at the tip of the anthers like they are present in N bujei and > hispanicus? and obvallaris? > From gardenstreet184@yahoo.com Tue Apr 1 01:51:23 2008 Message-Id: <248034.31831.qm@web36403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "C.J. Teevan" Subject: Fritillaria camschatcensis Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Friend of mine asked me to find Fritillaria camschatcensis for her. Would anyone have any idea where to find this stinky plant ('Outhouse Lily', 'Skunk Lily', etc.)? --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. From xerantheum@gmail.com Tue Apr 1 02:05:17 2008 Message-Id: From: "Nhu Nguyen" Subject: New American alliums added Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 23:05:16 -0700 Hi everyone, I have split up to the "American Alliums" pages into five separate pages and added new photos as well as species to each of the pages. Enjoy! http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/AmericanAlliums Nhu Nguyen Berkeley, CA - Allium, Calochortus, and Dichelostemma are starting to bloom. From dejager@bulbargence.com Tue Apr 1 03:33:13 2008 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Sprekelia formissima Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 09:33:10 +0200 Pablo, I saw your request on the PBS list. I grow a lot of Sprekelia. But just lifted the entire stock and selling it off. It flowers very well here, but suplying 6000 flowers need to be planned at least a year ahead. Please contact me for more details. Kind regards -- Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence 30300 FOURQUES France Tél 0(33)466 016 519 emailto: dejager@bulbargence.com Site www.bulbargence.com GPS Mas: 43.7.12.18 4.53.70.1 From jacobknecht@gmail.com Tue Apr 1 07:27:53 2008 Message-Id: <2f42069d0804010427m3c2c485br24405e17b328b395@mail.gmail.com> From: "Jacob Knecht" Subject: Wiki Additions...(My first time)...and many of them! Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 01:27:48 -1000 Aloha bulbophiles! For years now I have been thinking about adding some of my photos to the wiki, and I finally took the plunge. For those who are interested, the additions I've made are as follows: I added pictures of Albuca namaquensis a.k.a. circinata and A. spiralis http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Albuca Ammocharis tinneana (new entry) http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Ammocharis Bessera elegans http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Bessera Brunsvigia herrei (new entry), josephinae, litoralis, marginata, namaquana (new entry), orientalis, pulchra (new entry), radulosa, striata and a new dwarf species from near Pellaburg (new entry). http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Brunsvigia Boophone disticha, and various forms of B. haemanthoides http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Boophone Calostemma seeds... http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Calostemma Crinum campanulatum http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumSpeciesTwo Crinum razafindratsiraea & Crinum sp. nova (a new, undescribed species from Itremo, Madagascar.)(new entry) http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumSpeciesFour Crossyne flava & guttata (new entry) http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Crossyne Daubenya aurea seedlings http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Daubenya Eucomis regia http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Eucomis Eucrosia bicolor (new entry) & mirabilis http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Eucrosia Galtonia candicans (new entry) http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Galtonia Griffinia espiritensis subsp. espiritensis (new entry) http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Griffinia Haemanthus amarylloides subsp. toximontanus (new entry) http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HaemanthusSpeciesOne Haemanthus deformis, humilis ssp. hirsutus, humilis ssp. humilis http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HaemanthusSpeciesTwo Haemanthus namaquensis (new entry), nortieri (new entry), pubescens subsp. arenicolus, sanguineus, unifoliatus, and four possible/probable undescribed species from Namibia (new entries) http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HaemanthusSpeciesThree Hippeastrum calyptratum http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Hippeastrum Merwilla plumbea http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Merwilla I created a new page for Petronymphe decora http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Petronymphe I added notes on Polianthes geminiflora and Polianthes howardii (new entry) http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Polianthes Pseudogaltonia clavata http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Pseudogaltonia Rauhia multiflora http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Rauhia Rhodophiala bifida http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Rhodophiala Sinningia tubiflora http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Sinningia Stenomesson pearcei http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Stenomesson Strumaria gemmata http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Strumaria Urginea maritima http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Urginea Lastly, although some of you may know me, my participation in the PBS discussions hasn't been very frequent over the past, so I assembled a contributor's page for anyone who'd like to learn more about me and my botanical inclinations. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/JacobKnecht Kind regards, Jacob Knecht -- see my botanical photography at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/ From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Apr 1 11:21:02 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Wiki Additions...(My first time)...and many of them! Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 08:20:44 -0700 Jacob, A spectacular debut! I am pleased to see a couple of innovations: photos of seeds and seedlings, and the addition of measurement in cm where you have used a U.S. coin in a photo. Diane Whitehead > From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Apr 1 11:28:30 2008 Message-Id: <5051BAFF-A635-4C8F-B5B8-0691363A1B07@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: New American alliums added Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 08:28:11 -0700 Nhu, Thank you for the new alliums and reorganization. In studying western U.S. alliums, did you find that the ones growing on serpentine are accumulators of any of the minerals? I have long been curious as to whether all alliums are safely edible, though the only one that grows exuberantly enough for me to eat is cernuum. Diane Whitehead Victoria, B.C., Canada From xerantheum@gmail.com Tue Apr 1 14:04:02 2008 Message-Id: From: "Nhu Nguyen" Subject: New American alliums added Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 11:03:56 -0700 Hi Diane, I am not aware of any studies which found that serpentine Allium specifically accumulate minerals from the soil. However, it would not be surprising since many other serpentine plants do accumulate minerals from serpentine, particularly heavy metals (both the essential kind and the nonessential kind like lead). Most of the western U.S. alliums are too small to be eaten, particularly those related to *Allium jepsonii*, which has a limited distribution only in California and restricted to serpentine. They only grow one leaf per year and sampling a whole leaf would be very unhealthy if not detrimental to the plant. The only one here that grows large enough for nibbling is *Allium unifolium*, which is a vigorous grower and is a grassland species. I do know of a person who samples the flowers of serpentine alliums and she says that each species tastes differently. However, given what we don't know about the metal accumulation in serpentine species, and what we do know about other serpentine plants, it's best to avoid tasting them. We do have a weed species introduced from Europe called *Allium triquetrum*, which had peaked my interest for a while now. Perhaps this year I will give it a try! Nhu On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 8:28 AM, Diane Whitehead wrote: > Nhu, > > Thank you for the new alliums and reorganization. > > In studying western U.S. alliums, did you find that the ones growing > on serpentine are accumulators of any of the minerals? I have long > been curious as to whether all alliums are safely edible, though the > only one that grows exuberantly enough for me to eat is cernuum. > > Diane Whitehead > Victoria, B.C., Canada > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From auchgourishgardens@falsyde.sol.co.uk Tue Apr 1 14:55:39 2008 Message-Id: <002a01c89429$f3272ce0$0601a8c0@homepc> From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 63, Issue 1 Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 19:55:26 +0100 Fritillaria camschatcensis (Linn.) Ker-Gawl. There is a good-ish stock of this species growing here at Auchgourish Botanic Garden in northern Scotland which derives from wild provenance seed in ported from the Russian Far East some time ago. I was sorting through the material in pots, rather than those planted out in the Gardens per se, just as recently as on Monday and noticed their beginning to stir but then that's because they are in the large polytunnel [hoophouse] rather than out of doors which population will be several weeks latter. I am not aware they have a smell that's unpleasant during any of the past seven years which they have been here. There is an 'albino' form of this species known as treated as 'aurea' but we do not have this here currently. This taxon is also known as the Black Lily or Black Sarana and is I believe widely distributed on both sides of the Baring Straights growing in Japan, Russia, Canada and possibly ? Alaska USA? too. This Frit is not at all difficult to grow providing gardeners realise it is a Boreal and north temperate plant needing proper winter cold period rest and as long as there is 100% adequate drainage it should be no problem at all. Our plants are growing in a granite derived sand and gravel 'soil' with a pH of 4.5, plus added humus in the form of composted bark and leaf mould, topped up periodically. Apart from natural seed spread it also produces underground bulbs extensions in a rhysomatic fashion, at least here it does. I would class it as easy but we do have the ideal natural conditions as well, including low winter temperatures and day length to be found at around 58 degrees north however it certainly grows further south than that and a wee bit further north too no doubt. I am unable to send bulbs to either Canada or USA but using PLANT FINDER anyone in Europe should have no difficulty in obtaining however many bulbs they needs. The new edition of PF 2008-2009 is literally now just out. Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 6:21 PM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 63, Issue 1 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Chionodoxa luciliae (C.J. Teevan) > 2. Re: Chionodoxa luciliae (Arnold Trachtenberg) > 3. Chionodoxa etc. (James Waddick) > 4. Re: black spot on anthers in daffodils (John Grimshaw) > 5. Re: Fritillaria camschatcensis (C.J. Teevan) > 6. New American alliums added (Nhu Nguyen) > 7. Sprekelia formissima (Lauw de Jager) > 8. Wiki Additions...(My first time)...and many of them! > (Jacob Knecht) > 9. Re: Wiki Additions...(My first time)...and many of them! > (Diane Whitehead) > 10. Re: New American alliums added (Diane Whitehead) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 17:06:46 -0700 (PDT) > From: "C.J. Teevan" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Chionodoxa luciliae > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <649622.82196.qm@web36403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > I was under the impression C. lucilliae was pink, no? > > Arnold Trachtenberg wrote: Finally remembered to get a > photo of the early spring bulb. > > Grows well in ivy under large beech trees which have not yet leafed out. > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Chionodoxa > > Arnold > New Jersey > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > --------------------------------- > Special deal for Yahoo! users & friends - No Cost. Get a month of > Blockbuster Total Access now > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 21:08:56 -0500 > From: Arnold Trachtenberg > Subject: Re: [pbs] Chionodoxa luciliae > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <47F19938.8050003@nj.rr.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > CJ; > > I did some web searching to try to get the correct name and all the > sources stated that it comes in blue and pink. > > See this; > > http://www.pc-nijssen.nl/shop/plaatje.php?code=392 > > Arnold > New Jersey > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 23:13:43 -0500 > From: James Waddick > Subject: [pbs] Chionodoxa etc. > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > Dear All, > It seems like Chionodoxa cultivars can come in pink, white > or blue. Blue seems the most typical, but my favorite is C. forbesii > 'Pink Giant. It is large (relatively) vigorous and persists. > > I've tried as many as I can reasonably get my hands on and > this definitely performs better than all others. > > Still missing 'Blue giant"... one of these days. > > ....and by the way, the blue (typical ) Scilla bifolia > continues to impress for its small (even minute) size. It self sews > around the garden and can come up thickly enough to put on a show. > I've tried both pink and white forms, but the blue does best. > > And the first daffodils have started: 'Rynveld's Early > Sensation', ' Early to Rise', 'Gigantic Star' (in a warm spot), a > couple cyclaminus cvs. and more each day. > > And another thanks to the BX (Roy Herold, I think) for the > Corydalis solida 'Eco Special Pink' putting on a nice little show. > Quite a flashy hot pink ! > > I hope everyone is experiencing the start of spring. > > Best to all. Jim W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 05:21:31 +0100 > From: "John Grimshaw" > Subject: Re: [pbs] black spot on anthers in daffodils > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Message-ID: <002e01c893af$df75ac50$0201a8c0@John> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Ben > > I spent some time yesterday looking for black apiculi, but found them only > in an old clone of a Div 1 YY yellow trumpet daffodil. Presumably aff. > hispanicus. > > The only wild taxon I have here with pure yellow flowers is N. > perez-chiscanoi and that does not have them. > > Very curious about your train of enquiry.... > > John Grimshaw > > > Dr John M. Grimshaw > Sycamore Cottage > Colesbourne > Nr Cheltenham > Gloucestershire GL53 9NP > > Tel. 01242 870567 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "B.J.M. Zonneveld" > > >> Dear Daffodil lovers >> Let see what power the internet has. I am looking for the >> following:Could you check of you have any trumpet daffodil with a black >> spot at the tip of the anthers like they are present in N bujei and >> hispanicus? and obvallaris? >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:51:22 -0700 (PDT) > From: "C.J. Teevan" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Fritillaria camschatcensis > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <248034.31831.qm@web36403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Friend of mine asked me to find Fritillaria camschatcensis for her. Would > anyone have any idea where to find this stinky plant ('Outhouse Lily', > 'Skunk Lily', etc.)? > > > > --------------------------------- > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster > Total Access, No Cost. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 23:05:16 -0700 > From: "Nhu Nguyen" > Subject: [pbs] New American alliums added > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi everyone, > > I have split up to the "American Alliums" pages into five separate pages > and > added new photos as well as species to each of the pages. > > Enjoy! > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/AmericanAlliums > > Nhu Nguyen > Berkeley, CA - Allium, Calochortus, and Dichelostemma are starting to > bloom. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 09:33:10 +0200 > From: Lauw de Jager > Subject: [pbs] Sprekelia formissima > To: , Pacific Bulb Society > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > > Pablo, > I saw your request on the PBS list. I grow a lot of Sprekelia. But just > lifted the entire stock and selling it off. It flowers very well here, > but > suplying 6000 flowers need to be planned at least a year ahead. Please > contact me for more details. > Kind regards > > -- > Lauw de Jager > Bulb'Argence > 30300 FOURQUES France > T?l 0(33)466 016 519 > emailto: dejager@bulbargence.com > Site www.bulbargence.com > GPS Mas: 43.7.12.18 4.53.70.1 > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 01:27:48 -1000 > From: "Jacob Knecht" > Subject: [pbs] Wiki Additions...(My first time)...and many of them! > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: > <2f42069d0804010427m3c2c485br24405e17b328b395@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Aloha bulbophiles! > > For years now I have been thinking about adding some of my photos to > the wiki, and I finally took the plunge. For those who are > interested, the additions I've made are as follows: > > I added pictures of Albuca namaquensis a.k.a. circinata and A. spiralis > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Albuca > > Ammocharis tinneana (new entry) > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Ammocharis > > Bessera elegans > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Bessera > > Brunsvigia herrei (new entry), josephinae, litoralis, marginata, > namaquana (new entry), orientalis, pulchra (new entry), radulosa, > striata and a new dwarf species from near Pellaburg (new entry). > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Brunsvigia > > Boophone disticha, and various forms of B. haemanthoides > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Boophone > > Calostemma seeds... > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Calostemma > > Crinum campanulatum > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumSpeciesTwo > > Crinum razafindratsiraea & Crinum sp. nova (a new, undescribed species > from Itremo, Madagascar.)(new entry) > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumSpeciesFour > > Crossyne flava & guttata (new entry) > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Crossyne > > Daubenya aurea seedlings > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Daubenya > > Eucomis regia > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Eucomis > > Eucrosia bicolor (new entry) & mirabilis > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Eucrosia > > Galtonia candicans (new entry) > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Galtonia > > Griffinia espiritensis subsp. espiritensis (new entry) > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Griffinia > > Haemanthus amarylloides subsp. toximontanus (new entry) > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HaemanthusSpeciesOne > > Haemanthus deformis, humilis ssp. hirsutus, humilis ssp. humilis > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HaemanthusSpeciesTwo > > Haemanthus namaquensis (new entry), nortieri (new entry), pubescens > subsp. arenicolus, sanguineus, unifoliatus, and four possible/probable > undescribed species from Namibia (new entries) > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HaemanthusSpeciesThree > > Hippeastrum calyptratum > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Hippeastrum > > Merwilla plumbea > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Merwilla > > I created a new page for Petronymphe decora > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Petronymphe > > I added notes on Polianthes geminiflora and Polianthes howardii (new > entry) > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Polianthes > > Pseudogaltonia clavata > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Pseudogaltonia > > Rauhia multiflora > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Rauhia > > Rhodophiala bifida > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Rhodophiala > > Sinningia tubiflora > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Sinningia > > Stenomesson pearcei > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Stenomesson > > Strumaria gemmata > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Strumaria > > Urginea maritima > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Urginea > > Lastly, although some of you may know me, my participation in the PBS > discussions hasn't been very frequent over the past, so I assembled a > contributor's page for anyone who'd like to learn more about me and my > botanical inclinations. > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/JacobKnecht > > Kind regards, > > Jacob Knecht > -- > see my botanical photography at: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/ > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 08:20:44 -0700 > From: Diane Whitehead > Subject: Re: [pbs] Wiki Additions...(My first time)...and many of > them! > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Jacob, > > A spectacular debut! > > I am pleased to see a couple of innovations: photos of seeds and > seedlings, and the addition of measurement in cm where you have used a > U.S. coin in a photo. > > Diane Whitehead > >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 08:28:11 -0700 > From: Diane Whitehead > Subject: Re: [pbs] New American alliums added > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <5051BAFF-A635-4C8F-B5B8-0691363A1B07@islandnet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Nhu, > > Thank you for the new alliums and reorganization. > > In studying western U.S. alliums, did you find that the ones growing > on serpentine are accumulators of any of the minerals? I have long > been curious as to whether all alliums are safely edible, though the > only one that grows exuberantly enough for me to eat is cernuum. > > Diane Whitehead > Victoria, B.C., Canada > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 63, Issue 1 > ********************************** From kellso@irvincentral.com Tue Apr 1 16:31:51 2008 Message-Id: <47F29BA9.2070601@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Fritillaria camschatcensis Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:31:37 -0500 C.J.: These won't be shipped until October, but the list is online for orders now: Fritillaria camschatcensis Fritillaria camschatcensis 'Aurea' Fritillaria camschatcensis multiflora Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ C.J. Teevan wrote: > Friend of mine asked me to find Fritillaria camschatcensis for her. Would anyone have any idea where to find this stinky plant ('Outhouse Lily', 'Skunk Lily', etc.)? From johannes-ulrich-urban@T-Online.de Tue Apr 1 16:42:27 2008 Message-Id: <1JgnJC-0dZ7Im0@fwd27.aul.t-online.de> From: "Uli Urban" Subject: old seed Date: 01 Apr 2008 20:36 GMT Dear All! Stimulated by the contributions of you all I tried some 5 year old seed of Albuca aurea which I forgot about in my fridge....... (I keep all my seed in the fridge just slightly above 0°C but not frozen) ...... and germination after a few days! Incredible! Uli From kellso@irvincentral.com Tue Apr 1 17:49:33 2008 Message-Id: <47F2ADCE.2090107@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Fritillaria camschatcensis Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 16:49:02 -0500 I can only ship to the U.S., too. Additionally, mine are dormant imports. Jane's will be fresh, I believe. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ Jane McGary wrote: > C, J, Teevan asked, > At 10:51 PM 3/31/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >> Friend of mine asked me to find Fritillaria camschatcensis for her. Would >> anyone have any idea where to find this stinky plant ('Outhouse Lily', >> 'Skunk Lily', etc.)? >> > > If your friend lives in the United States, she can probably order it from > me when I send out my sale list next August; write to me privately to get > on the mailing list. However, you don't say where you live, and you should > be aware that this plant will not grow well in many parts of North America. > > I don't notice any offensive odor emanating from F. camschatcensis flowers, > though like many species of Fritillaria they are not pleasant to sniff up > close, and the bulbs are not smelly either. The only frits I grow that have > a bad odor that diffuses widely are F. imperialis and F. agrestis. > > Jane McGary > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Apr 1 17:36:23 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080401153815.0170bd98@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Fritillaria camschatcensis Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:41:47 -0700 C, J, Teevan asked, At 10:51 PM 3/31/2008 -0700, you wrote: >Friend of mine asked me to find Fritillaria camschatcensis for her. Would >anyone have any idea where to find this stinky plant ('Outhouse Lily', >'Skunk Lily', etc.)? If your friend lives in the United States, she can probably order it from me when I send out my sale list next August; write to me privately to get on the mailing list. However, you don't say where you live, and you should be aware that this plant will not grow well in many parts of North America. I don't notice any offensive odor emanating from F. camschatcensis flowers, though like many species of Fritillaria they are not pleasant to sniff up close, and the bulbs are not smelly either. The only frits I grow that have a bad odor that diffuses widely are F. imperialis and F. agrestis. Jane McGary From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Apr 1 18:47:41 2008 Message-Id: <003001c8944a$b58210f0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Wiki Additions...(My first time)...and many of them! Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 18:49:55 -0400 Welcome aboard, Jacob. You’re off to a great start! I hope we hear from you often. I’ve been enjoying your Flicker images for about a year, now. Every time I looked at them, it made me wonder what kind of person would be behind them. Thanks for the bio information – your enthusiasm is evident. And wow! You sure seem to be covering a lot of ground. Glad you did not inherit your Danish grandfather's preferences. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where Scilla (Oncostema) peruviana has started to bloom. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Tue Apr 1 19:12:43 2008 Message-Id: <18465862.1207091556847.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: >> Friend of mine asked me to find Fritillaria camschatcensis for her. Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 18:12:36 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >> Friend of mine asked me to find Fritillaria camschatcensis for her. Arrowhead Alpines carries this plant. M From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Apr 1 20:44:22 2008 Message-Id: <003101c8945a$fd4e8c50$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: April 1 Maryland update Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 20:46:28 -0400 What a day! It got warm during the afternoon and the garden really responded fast. I started to make a list of things in bloom and quickly lost track of things. Everywhere I turned there was something new and fetching. Begonia grandis is already a foot out of the ground. Scilla natalensis is about to bloom. Against the house wall there is a clump of Iris kirkwoodii two feet across and full of buds and the earliest blooms. What a sight! A nice fat clump of one of the greenish brown forms of Iris persica is a dome of bloom almost the size of a half cantaloupe. Lilium rubellum is up and heavily budded. Out in the back garden Magnolia campbellii is in full bloom. The forty foot Cornus nuttallii came through the winter unscathed and is loaded with buds. I cut down the Araucaria araucana today – it was growing too fast and had gotten too big for its site. No more will that prickly monster drop its cannon balls on my unsuspecting back or head. A pot of Fritillaria recurva was divided yesterday – fifteen or so will go to the local NARGS chapter, another ten to my local club. They are in bloom, so they’ll go fast. Also divided was little Narcissus alpestris – it got so crowded I thought the pot might crack. Wind last week pulled Rhododendron arboreum nearly out of the ground: the massive head of this plant catches every breeze. I had no idea Tecophilaea multiplied so fast – what a nuisance! And the Myosotidium have to go – the bloom to foliage ratio is ridiculous. Isotria medeoloides has clumped nicely and will bloom this year. I wintered the Welwitschia in the cold protected cold frame and it seems to be producing strobili – amazing! The Worsleya were also wintered in the same frame and have really put on size during the cold months – one of them also seems to be budded. Tropaeolum azureum has to go - what a rampageous weed! The office of the Architect of the Capitol had a big sale of surplus boxwood from the US Capitol grounds today – I was down there at the crack of dawn with the pick up truck. So intent was I on getting my dozen plants that I forgot to note which early nineteenth century president had planted them and when. I suppose I can find out later. They had a couple of cherry trees, too, but they wouldn’t fit in the truck. Security was a hassle, but it was worth it. The heat today caused the Victoria in the goldfish pond to open a flower. Boy do those things smell! Copperheads and rattlesnakes are basking on the rocks of the rock garden, a reminder to me to keep the dog in lest April indeed become the cruelest month. Deer have been scarce lately, probably because of the bear which has been terrorizing trash cans in the neighborhood. I cut the first cucumbers from the garden today – they were still warm from the sun when we ate them. And I think I see silk on the earliest corn. I’ll probably spend all day tomorrow disbudding chrysanthemums. Not bad for the first day of April! Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where I think I just saw an ivory billed woodpecker. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed Apr 2 10:26:15 2008 Message-Id: <000d01c894cd$cebdc950$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: OT, Araucaria talk Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:28:22 -0400 John Grimshaw responded privately to my April Fool’s Day post and wrote: “but the cones of Araucaria araucana fall apart before falling! The cannonballs to avoid are from A. bidwillii.” I guess it’s obvious that I do not live in Araucaria country. I based the comment in my post on an article I read years ago which reported that old Araucaria in English gardens were being cut down. Two reasons were given. One is that the old trees had live foliage only high up above bare trunks and were thus scare-crow ugly. The other reason given was the potential legal liability posed by the falling cones. This article was probably written ten or more years ago, and I really don’t remember much more about it. But I do think the species mentioned was A. imbricata (as A. araucana was widely called then). As I now know, John is of course right about the cones of this species disintegrating before falling. So now I wonder: is A. bidwillii grown in the UK in the open garden? Does it become large enough to fruit? Or perhaps the author of the article was an Aussie still learning his English garden trees (as he remembered bad experiences back home)? Thanks John. I've got some Araucaria araucana seeds in the 'fridge now, and all of this Araucaria talk is prompting me to get them started. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From JFlintoff@aol.com Wed Apr 2 12:44:23 2008 Message-Id: <8CA62F7E6C90599-14B0-6CC0@webmail-ne01.sysops.aol.com> From: jflintoff@aol.com Subject: {pbs] Chionodoxa Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 12:44:06 -0400 Arnold ?? Your chionodoxa is C. sardensis.? C. luciliae has 1-2 or 3?much larger, flatter florets per scape and is usually a softer blue, with or without a white center, or pure white.? It was formerly called C. gigantea.? All taxa are very confused in the trade. J John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washington,USA Zone 8 From kellso@irvincentral.com Wed Apr 2 12:58:51 2008 Message-Id: <47F3BB2B.6040909@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: {pbs] Chionodoxa Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 11:58:19 -0500 John: As long as my Chionodoxa sardensis is really C. sardensis: http://gallery.bulbmeister.com/showphoto.php?photo=1507 I don't think it looks like Arnold's C. luciliae. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ jflintoff@aol.com wrote: > Arnold > > ?? Your chionodoxa is C. sardensis.? C. luciliae has 1-2 or 3?much larger, flatter florets per scape and is usually a softer blue, with or without a white center, or pure white.? It was formerly called C. gigantea.? All taxa are very confused in the trade. > > J John Flintoff > Vashon Island,Washington,USA > Zone 8 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From jshields@indy.net Wed Apr 2 17:30:05 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080402162717.027be9f8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Fritillaria camschatcensis Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 16:30:03 -0500 Hi all, Mr. Janis Ruksans has had F. camschatcensis in past years, and he ships anywhere in the world. See if he has a web site -- I think he does. Jim Shields At 04:49 PM 4/1/2008 -0500, you wrote: >I can only ship to the U.S., too. ..... ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Wed Apr 2 20:25:37 2008 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Fritillaria camschatcensis Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 20:25:30 -0400 We also sell F. camschatcensis, and ship internationally. The bulbs are fresh and otherwise of high quality. Russell Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 www.odysseybulbs.com From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Thu Apr 3 01:55:26 2008 Message-Id: <003701c8954f$4ec77a70$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: OT, Araucaria talk Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 06:55:22 +0100 Jim McKenney wrote: So now I wonder: is A. bidwillii grown in the UK in the open garden? Does it become large enough to fruit? It is easiest to reply by providing the text for my account of Araucaria bidwillii that will appear in my forthcoming book 'New Trees, Introductions to Cultivation 1970-2005' which will be published by the Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew, in about a year's time. (formal description omitted) The Bunya Pine is a magnificent tree in its native Queensland, and is grown quite widely in Australia and elsewhere for its ornamental value (Elliott & Jones 1982). Mature trees are somewhat hazardous on account of the risk of being hit by a falling cone. At present there seems to be little risk of this in our area [North America north of San Francisco and the NC/SC boundary, Europe north of the Mediterranean basin], where A. bidwillii is on the very edge of its tolerance, even in the mildest locations. It has however reached 11 m (33 cm dbh) in the past at Glendurgan, Cornwall (TROBI record from 1965) and the current British and Irish champion is a 6 m specimen at Earlscliffe, Baily, Co. Dublin (TROBI). It is therefore worth the attempt in the mildest coastal areas of Europe and western North America, but great size and longevity are perhaps too much to hope for. TROBI = Tree Register of the British Isles I'd better get on with the book itself! John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Thu Apr 3 03:10:48 2008 Message-Id: <006e01c89559$beadd370$dfd1115a@acer6281efdef1> From: "brown.mark" Subject: OT, Araucaria talk Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 09:10:05 +0200 I am trying other species outside here in nothern France.I have gone through last winter with Araucaria heterophylla.It looks a bit singed though.I have many others that will go out soon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Grimshaw" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 7:55 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] OT, Araucaria talk > Jim McKenney wrote: So now I wonder: is A. bidwillii grown in the > UK in the open garden? Does it become large enough to fruit? > > It is easiest to reply by providing the text for my account of Araucaria > bidwillii that will appear in my forthcoming book 'New Trees, > Introductions > to Cultivation 1970-2005' which will be published by the Royal Botanic > Gardens, Kew, in about a year's time. > > (formal description omitted) > The Bunya Pine is a magnificent tree in its native Queensland, and is > grown > quite widely in Australia and elsewhere for its ornamental value (Elliott > & > Jones 1982). Mature trees are somewhat hazardous on account of the risk of > being hit by a falling cone. At present there seems to be little risk of > this in our area [North America north of San Francisco and the NC/SC > boundary, Europe north of the Mediterranean basin], where A. bidwillii is > on > the very edge of its tolerance, even in the mildest locations. It has > however reached 11 m (33 cm dbh) in the past at Glendurgan, Cornwall > (TROBI > record from 1965) and the current British and Irish champion is a 6 m > specimen at Earlscliffe, Baily, Co. Dublin (TROBI). It is therefore worth > the attempt in the mildest coastal areas of Europe and western North > America, but great size and longevity are perhaps too much to hope for. > > TROBI = Tree Register of the British Isles > > I'd better get on with the book itself! > > John Grimshaw > > > Dr John M. Grimshaw > Sycamore Cottage > Colesbourne > Nr Cheltenham > Gloucestershire GL53 9NP > > Tel. 01242 870567 > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From B.J.M.Zonneveld@biology.leidenuniv.nl Thu Apr 3 04:30:52 2008 Message-Id: <8E19E8A2233ED74D8483ACF3FBB3603B018DD353@iblmail.ibl.leidenuniv.nl> From: "B.J.M. Zonneveld" Subject: Araucaria Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 10:31:30 +0200 Apeaking of Araucarias I am still trying to get hold of a fresh leaf of those Araucaria grwowing on the Caladonian islands b.j.m.zonneveld@biology.leidenuniv.nl Institute of Molecular Plant Sciences Clusius laboratory PBox 9505 2300RA Leiden The Netherlands From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Thu Apr 3 04:42:19 2008 Message-Id: <26772432.1103781207212134459.JavaMail.www@wwinf1a30> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Araucaria Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 10:42:14 +0200 (CEST) Are you in contact with the I.D.S.? they might be of some help?Or someone from a research station there?I know that the french liase heavily with New Caledonia.Could Luc Bulot help? > Message du 03/04/08 10:30 > De : "B.J.M. Zonneveld" > A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] Araucaria > > Apeaking of Araucarias I am still trying to get hold of a fresh leaf of > those Araucaria grwowing on the Caladonian islands > b.j.m.zonneveld@biology.leidenuniv.nl > Institute of Molecular Plant Sciences > Clusius laboratory > PBox 9505 > 2300RA Leiden > The Netherlands > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From sgage4@eq.edu.au Thu Apr 3 05:10:20 2008 Message-Id: From: Shelley Gage Subject: OT, Araucaria talk Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:10:13 +1000 As I live close to the natural habitat of the Bunya pine I can vouch for it being a truly majestic tree and an important plant to the Aboriginal people both as a food plant and culturally. It seems pretty special that it is being grown in such different environments. If these trees do fruit don't park your car under them when the cones are ready to fall. Shelley South East Queensland ----- Original Message ----- From: John Grimshaw Date: Thursday, April 3, 2008 4:21 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] OT, Araucaria talk To: Pacific Bulb Society > Jim McKenney wrote: So now I wonder: is A. bidwillii grown in the > UK in the open garden? Does it become large enough to fruit? > > It is easiest to reply by providing the text for my account of > Araucaria > bidwillii that will appear in my forthcoming book 'New Trees, > Introductions > to Cultivation 1970-2005' which will be published by the Royal > Botanic > Gardens, Kew, in about a year's time. > > (formal description omitted) > The Bunya Pine is a magnificent tree in its native Queensland, > and is grown > quite widely in Australia and elsewhere for its ornamental value > (Elliott & > Jones 1982). Mature trees are somewhat hazardous on account of > the risk of > being hit by a falling cone. At present there seems to be little > risk of > this in our area [North America north of San Francisco and the > NC/SC > boundary, Europe north of the Mediterranean basin], where A. > bidwillii is on > the very edge of its tolerance, even in the mildest locations. > It has > however reached 11 m (33 cm dbh) in the past at Glendurgan, > Cornwall (TROBI > record from 1965) and the current British and Irish champion is > a 6 m > specimen at Earlscliffe, Baily, Co. Dublin (TROBI). It is > therefore worth > the attempt in the mildest coastal areas of Europe and western > North > America, but great size and longevity are perhaps too much to > hope for. > > TROBI = Tree Register of the British Isles > > I'd better get on with the book itself! > > John Grimshaw > > > Dr John M. Grimshaw > Sycamore Cottage > Colesbourne > Nr Cheltenham > Gloucestershire GL53 9NP > > Tel. 01242 870567 > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From LucGBulot@aol.com Thu Apr 3 05:16:52 2008 Message-Id: <8CA638294DF8392-1758-1F@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: : Araucaria Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 05:16:49 -0400 Hi all, Writing from Norway... Yes I think I can help... Let me come back to France and contact a botanist friend who just moved to New Caledonia and see zhat he can do to get some fresh material Take care all, Luc Could Luc Bulot help? -----E-mail d'origine----- De : Mark BROWN A : Pacific Bulb Society Envoyé le : Jeudi, 3 Avril 2008 10:42 Sujet : Re: [pbs] Araucaria re you in contact with the I.D.S.? they might be of some help?Or someone from a esearch station there?I know that the french liase heavily with New aledonia.Could Luc Bulot help? Message du 03/04/08 10:30 De : "B.J.M. Zonneveld" A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Copie à : Objet : [pbs] Araucaria Apeaking of Araucarias I am still trying to get hold of a fresh leaf of those Araucaria grwowing on the Caladonian islands b.j.m.zonneveld@biology.leidenuniv.nl Institute of Molecular Plant Sciences Clusius laboratory PBox 9505 2300RA Leiden The Netherlands _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ______________________________________________ bs mailing list bs@lists.ibiblio.org ttp://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ttp://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ixia@dcsi.net.au Thu Apr 3 05:31:43 2008 Message-Id: <000c01c8956d$873d1400$0200a8c0@ownerd7bcfa40f> From: "Bill Richardson" Subject: Bunya pines Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 20:31:37 +1100 Hi Shelley, the Bunya pines grow well here in Victoria. We have just collected six lovely big cones and will collect the seed from them. The black cockatoos sit high up in the trees and rip apart the cones to get the seed, They have massively powerful beaks. regards, Bill Richardson in Drouin Ixiaking Gippsland Victoria, Australia Autumn 5c to 25c at present www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia ixia@dcsi.net.au ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shelley Gage" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] OT, Araucaria talk > As I live close to the natural habitat of the Bunya pine I can vouch for > it being a truly majestic tree and an important plant to the Aboriginal > people both as a food plant and culturally. It seems pretty special that > it is being grown in such different environments. If these trees do fruit > don't park your car under them when the cones are ready to fall. > Shelley > South East Queensland From dells@voicenet.com Thu Apr 3 15:49:20 2008 Message-Id: <20080403194916.601684C01A@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 168 Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 15:48:50 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 168" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Uli Urban: 1. Small tubers (few) of Amorphophallus johnsonii: Received under this name from Mr Thomerson from the US many years ago, I cannot see any difference to A. konjac except perhaps that the flower is slightly smaller but this may depend on the vigour of the individual tuber. The foliage is not distinguishable from A. konjac. 2. Small tubers (few) of Amorphophallus konjac from an English friend 20 years ago 3. Small tubers (few) of A. konjac from China from Fausto Ceni. The China form has not yet flowered with me, the foliage is identical to the regular konjac. The "ordinary" konjac is one of my favourite plants flowering almost every year with a giant flower (well..... not as gigantic as A. titanum, of course) that unfolds in a most dramatic way. It has the colour and after one or two days also the smell or rotting meat...... I am always impressed again how nature can imitate this smell. The single big umbrella-like compound leaf with a thick and straight mottled stalk is even more impressive. Easy to grow it needs a ot of fertilizer, water and sun to build up a bigger tuber every year. It produces quite a ot of offsets every year. 4. Small tubers of Arisaema candidissimum, trade form Very good grower with me, multiplies fast and steadily. The plants have been pot grown so far (for fear of rodents) It emerges very late, sometimes at the end of May or even the first days in June, a very good companion to early bulbs because it arrives when they disappear. Quite hardy. The flowers appear when the leaves are still very small in bud and are fragrant. If more than one clone is grown there will be seed, red berries. Big trifoliate leaves need a lot of space in partial shade to full sun. 5. Small tubers of Arisaema fargessii Bought at a plant fair as a single big (expensive) tuber some 4 years ago it has multiplied very well. The flowers are typical brownish reddish Arisaema flowers quickly hidden by the leaves. Not tested for hardiness but in Janis Ruksanis' book is considered hardy when planted deeply. Foliage big and lush, very similar to A.candidissimum. 6. Small tubers of Dioscorea discolor Tuberous vine with very beautiful foliage: dark green with red reverse, the upper side is marked with silver and red zones. Best in full sun, needs a lot of water and fertilizer when growing, marked totally dry winter dormancy. Emerges relatively late in spring and lasts into winter but not hardy. Forms a lot of white potato like tubers in its pot, apparently poisonous, have not tested that..... From deciduous woodland in Bolivia, makes an excellent resilient houseplant or greenhouse plant adult tubers producing at least 5-6m long annual shoots. 7. Seed of Hippeastrum aulicum var robustum Very fresh seed posted the same day as it was harvested. Epiphytic in nature this is one of the most robust and undemanding Hippeastrums. Two flowered scapes in mid winter with exotic red flowers with beige markings and a greenish throat. Original plant was a gift from the Hannover Botanical Garden in northern Germany. Best not to remove its offsets as this will eventually produce a big tub full of flowers. Dislikes root disturbance, waterlogging. Sometimes considered evergreen, my plants make a short summer dormancy. From Allen Repashy: 8. Seed of Crinum variabile ex Kamieskroon, Namaqualand Thank you, Uli and Allen !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From dells@voicenet.com Thu Apr 3 17:05:37 2008 Message-Id: <20080403210536.6E90C4C01B@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Hippeastrum aulicum Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 17:05:07 -0400 Dear Uli, You say that you grow H. aulicum as an epiphyte. What medium do you use? I grow H. calyptratum, another epiphyte, I believe, in pure fir bark, and feed it "weakly weekly" the same as my phalaenopsis orchids. Regards, Dell From pollards@adelphia.net Thu Apr 3 18:41:02 2008 Message-Id: <21103361.1207262446055.JavaMail.root@web28> From: Shawn Pollard Subject: Pacific BX 168 Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 15:40:46 -0700 Dear Dell, Please send the following. > 6. Small tubers of Dioscorea discolor > 7. Seed of Hippeastrum aulicum var robustum > 8. Seed of Crinum variabile ex Kamieskroon, Namaqualand Thanks! Shawn Pollard 2920 South First Avenue #4D Yuma, AZ 85364-8146 From pollards@adelphia.net Thu Apr 3 19:08:59 2008 Message-Id: <6487696.1207264122804.JavaMail.root@web28> From: Shawn Pollard Subject: Oops! Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 16:08:42 -0700 Sorry everyone for the BX posting. Shawn Pollard Yuma, AZ From dells@voicenet.com Fri Apr 4 07:24:43 2008 Message-Id: <20080404112428.A4A994C02A@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 168 closed Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 07:24:02 -0400 Dear All, Your enthusiasm has been frightening!! ; From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 21:09:49 -0700 There have been so many additions to the wiki in the past week that it's been very hard to keep up with them. I really appreciated Nhu Nguyen and Jacob Knecht's announcing all their wonderful additions to the group. Just listing the new additions really takes a lot of time. Jay Yourch has continued to add more pictures of Narcissus blooming in his garden. Add 'Avalon' and 'Vie en Rose' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionTwo Add 'Gay Kybo' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionFour Add 'O'Bodkin', group photo of 'Double Smiles' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionSeven Add 'Kokopelli' and 'Chit Chat' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MiniatureNarcissus Add 'Actaea' and 'Angel Eyes' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionNine Add 'Papillon Blanc' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionEleven Add 'Aspasia' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionEight Update 'Goose Green' and 'Mint Julep' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionThree Lee Poulsen has offered to make wiki pages for the genera in the Themidaceae family that we didn't have on the wiki following the new one, http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Petronymphe that Jacob made. Lee thinks if we make a wiki page, the pictures will come. Sometimes that happens, but not always. Those promised pictures of Keukenhof (hint) never were added. New wiki pages Lee has made so far are: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Androstephium http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Triteleiopsis Mary Gerritsen has been adding more habitat pictures of California bulbs she has seen this spring including Erythronium tuolumnense. This is one that I've been growing for years but never have gotten to bloom. I also added habitat pictures of E. californicum taken in past years. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Erythronium Mary has also added habitat pictures of Fritillaria agrestis, F. purdyi, and F. recurva. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NorthAmericanFritillarias For the last several years I've been adding pictures of the bulbs that grow where I live. That wiki page was getting much two long so I have split it into a number of pages and added some new species and pictures. So if you are interested the first page that lists them all and shows some scenery is: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MendocinoSonomaCoast Besides the natives I've included some of the ones that have naturalized or gotten out of control. Finally I added habitat pictures of Arthropodium strictum seen in Australia last October in the Grampians. We were having lunch near a waterfall and I discovered them growing in the rocks. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Arthropodium Mary Sue From jshields104@comcast.net Sat Apr 5 10:32:16 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080405090937.027d4ae0@mail.comcast.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: It's Beginning to Look a Little Like Spring Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 09:32:26 -0500 Hi all, The very first Narcissus bloomed this past week -- Rijnveld's Early Sensation is up and open. Some of the supposedly much earlier varieties are not in sight yet. Maybe when they do show up I'll remember what their names were. A little clump of N. asturiensis is also now in bloom. It is getting buried by grass from the lawn and overshadowed by a red cedar tree. I need to move it as soon as it goes dormant! Trillium nivale is in bloom, and has been for at least two weeks. One lone Trillium sessile is up and has a bud. A few scattered Eranthis cilicica volunteers are starting to fade as are the Galanthus nivalis and elwesii. The sun is even going to shine today! Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From piabinha@yahoo.com Sat Apr 5 11:51:36 2008 Message-Id: <721868.45283.qm@web51911.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: OT, Araucaria talk Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 08:51:35 -0700 (PDT) growing in southern brazil, i enjoyed very much the boiled pine nuts of the native araucarias, that you could buy off street vendors. they were big and yummy, boiled simply with salt. i miss them. i wonder if anyone grows them outside brazil? are other species nuts edible? new caledonia is an amazing botanical paradise, isn't it? there's an aquatic conifer there that grows in swamps and lakes (a Podophyllum relative, i think?). ========= tsuh yang ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com From crinum@libero.it Sun Apr 6 02:51:41 2008 Message-Id: <000801c897b2$8bd39010$6e01a8c0@6b6625a8caff485> From: "Alberto Grossi" Subject: Amaryllidaceae in Kubitzki Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 08:50:47 +0200 Hi All, there is anyone that can provide the pages from the book "Families and Genera of vascular Plants", 1998, edited by Kubitzki, relating to Amaryllidaceae, pages 83-110? Many many thanks. My best regards Alberto Italy From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sun Apr 6 03:56:35 2008 Message-Id: <5101168.1027701207468593561.JavaMail.www@wwinf1611> From: Mark BROWN Subject: OT, Araucaria talk Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 09:56:33 +0200 (CEST) Do you have any more details of this species?I know of the conifer ,Parasitaxis which grows on Podophyllum species... > Message du 05/04/08 17:51 > De : "piaba" > A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] OT, Araucaria talk > > growing in southern brazil, i enjoyed very much the > boiled pine nuts of the native araucarias, that you > could buy off street vendors. they were big and > yummy, boiled simply with salt. i miss them. i > wonder if anyone grows them outside brazil? are other > species nuts edible? > > new caledonia is an amazing botanical paradise, isn't > it? there's an aquatic conifer there that grows in > swamps and lakes (a Podophyllum relative, i think?). > > > ========= > tsuh yang > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From v_pascal@club-internet.fr Sun Apr 6 12:16:45 2008 Message-Id: <47F8F6FC.70708@club-internet.fr> From: Pascal Vigneron Subject: Amaryllidaceae in Kubitzki Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 18:14:52 +0200 Hi, Alberto, Look at Books.Google: http://books.google.com/books?q=amaryllis+inauthor%3AKubitzki (Change "amaryllis" by the genus you search.) Greetings, Pascal Alberto Grossi a écrit : > Hi All, > there is anyone that can provide the pages from the book > "Families and Genera of vascular Plants", 1998, edited by Kubitzki, > relating to Amaryllidaceae, pages 83-110? From crinum@libero.it Sun Apr 6 12:27:04 2008 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Grossi" Subject: Amaryllidaceae in Kubitzki Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 18:27:02 +0200 Pascal, I had already searched, but it misses pages from 90 to 95. Thank you. Alberto ---------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : "Pacific Bulb Society" pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Sun, 06 Apr 2008 18:14:52 +0200 Subject : Re: [pbs] Amaryllidaceae in Kubitzki > Hi, Alberto, > > Look at Books.Google: > http://books.google.com/books?q=amaryllis+inauthor%3AKubitzki > (Change "amaryllis" by the genus you search.) > Greetings, Pascal > > > Alberto Grossi a écrit : > > Hi All, > > there is anyone that can provide the pages from the book > > "Families and Genera of vascular Plants", 1998, edited by Kubitzki, > > relating to Amaryllidaceae, pages 83-110? > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > Alberto Grossi Italy From andyhoughton@madasafish.com Sun Apr 6 15:56:09 2008 Message-Id: <000501c89820$40af8800$c20e9800$@com> From: "andy houghton" Subject: Introducing myself Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 20:56:06 +0100 Hello Everyone. My name is Andy Houghton from Evesham in the UK. I have been growing plants for as long as I can remember. My interest only took off about 7 years ago when I changed jobs, and gained a job at a rare plant nursery near here. I then became interested in growing bulbs. Unfortunately the job lasted 3 years, and Im back growing millions of bedding plants for a living, but my interest in growing bulbs has become a passion bordering on an obsession. Luckily I have an understanding family, who forgive my obsession. My main interest is in all amaryllids, so much so that I have recently become the National Collection holder of Hippeastrum Hybrids here in the UK. I have also just taken over Dave Fenwick's Amaryllis belladonna collection. I am also growing plenty of other bulbs from different genera ie Arisaema, Brunsvigia, Boophone, Haemanthus,Rhodophiala and Bearded Iris. Ive also recently started to plan a dahlia garden on the allotment we have. I don't think my wife will be too impressed when she sees how many Dahlias I'm planning on planting! My main reason for joining this list is for information. I am trying to find info about Les Hannibal and his breeding work with Amaryllis. Ive got a good range of hybrids that formed a large proportion of Dave's collection. I'm just trying to find more info about these hybrids, where they ended up etc. If anyone has any information they would like to share, I would be most grateful. The second request is for information about Fred Meyer. There are a lot of Hippeastrum hybrids that he bred, but I don't think there is a comprehensive list of which hybrids he bred, what they looked like, where they ended up and where they are now. I would like to maybe have part of the collection devoted to Fred Meyer hybrids, so any information out there would also be gratefully received. I hope you are all well Many thanks for reading this Regards Andy Houghton In a cold wet Evesham, threatening to snow again tonight ! From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Apr 6 16:05:40 2008 Message-Id: <47F92CF6.6050209@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Introducing myself Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 16:05:10 -0400 Andy: Welcome to the PBS. I think a good place to start would be to get some of the old Herbertia's. It was the journal of the International Bulb Society. You may find some in used book shops. Arnold New Jersey From prallen2@peoplepc.com Sun Apr 6 16:46:16 2008 Message-Id: <15277955.1207514767536.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: patty allen Subject: Introducing myself Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 16:46:06 -0400 (EDT) ANDY, WELCOME! BETTER YET, GET IN TOUCH WITH PRESIDENT HERBERT KELLY, JR., OF THE INTERNATIONAL BULB SOCIETY, I'M SURE HE CAN HELP YOU. BOTH PBS AND THE IBS ARE TREASURE TROVES OF INFORMATION ABOUT THE THINGS YOU ARE INTERESTED IN. PATTY ALLEN -----Original Message----- >From: Arnold Trachtenberg >Sent: Apr 6, 2008 4:05 PM >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: Re: [pbs] Introducing myself > >Andy: > >Welcome to the PBS. > >I think a good place to start would be to get some of the old >Herbertia's. It was the journal of the International Bulb Society. You >may find some in used book shops. > >Arnold >New Jersey >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Apr 6 22:51:18 2008 Message-Id: <47F98C04.5000906@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Amaryllidaceae in Kubitzki Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 22:50:44 -0400 Alberto: I sent page 96 through 110. I'll take care of the rest tomorrow. Arnold Saw Palermo defeat Yuve this afternoon. Palermo looked like they had just won the World Cup. From Neil.Crawford@volvo.com Mon Apr 7 06:34:37 2008 Message-Id: From: "Crawford Neil" Subject: More mystery bulbs Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 12:34:13 +0200 Please go and have a look on our flickr site http://www.flickr.com/photos/22594688@N08/ and help with ids if possible, we're really struggling with some of them. Succulents are very difficult, I know it's the wrong forum, but feel free to put a comment on any of our mysteries succulents on flickr. We also have a couple of bulbs that we're not sure of, we saw these on the Swartberg pass, and the Montagu pass in the Western cape , This one we feel fairly confident of, but we'd love a confirmation. Tritoniopsis ramosa var.unguiculata http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2393/2375260620_7ba70b13ff.jpg And this one, we're not even sure it's a Watsonia, but it's the only one in our field guides that's close: Watsonia galpinii? http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2110/2392891636_e58616abfd.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2041/2392059093_c9e3bf31e7.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3072/2375261014_edd14994bf.jpg The leaves were about 40cm and narrow, the plant was also about 40cm and it was flowering in February. Best regards, and thanks for any possible help. /Neil From othonna@gmail.com Mon Apr 7 12:38:24 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260804070938k79ac5843wd143e0a96bf65fc9@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: More mystery bulbs Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 09:38:16 -0700 Neil, Your rounded shrub succulent on the first page of photos (2 pix) is Crassula arborescens. The "Euphorbia" (3 pix) is one of the cholla-type Opuntia species, a cactus that has somehow invaded South Africa. It is menacing enough here, where it belongs, but how dreadful it has found its way over there. They can be difficult to identify to species level. Dylan Hannon On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 3:34 AM, Crawford Neil wrote: > > Please go and have a look on our flickr site > http://www.flickr.com/photos/22594688@N08/ > and help with ids if possible, we're really struggling with > some of them. Succulents are very difficult, I know it's the > wrong forum, but feel free to put a comment on any of our mysteries > succulents > on flickr. We also have a couple of bulbs that we're not sure of, > we saw these on the Swartberg pass, and the Montagu pass in the > Western cape , > > This one we feel fairly confident of, but we'd love a confirmation. > Tritoniopsis ramosa var.unguiculata > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2393/2375260620_7ba70b13ff.jpg > > And this one, we're not even sure it's a Watsonia, but it's the only > one in our field guides that's close: > > Watsonia galpinii? > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2110/2392891636_e58616abfd.jpg > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2041/2392059093_c9e3bf31e7.jpg > > http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3072/2375261014_edd14994bf.jpg > > The leaves were about 40cm and narrow, the plant was also about 40cm > and it was flowering in February. > Best regards, and thanks for any possible help. > /Neil > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From djordan68@comcast.net Mon Apr 7 19:54:27 2008 Message-Id: From: "Deborah Jordan" Subject: Herbertia issues Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 18:50:49 -0500 Hi all-- I've had no problems getting what I need from past Herbertia's from two of the major universities in Texas. Just email the librarian and they will pdf you what you request. They usually reply quickly to your request email, but then it might take them a couple of weeks to send you the pdf articles requested--I'm sure its because they are very busy. Once they know you it gets faster. Debbie Those universities would be Texas A&M College Station and UT Texas in Austin--both have wonderful and helpful librarians. From msittner@mcn.org Mon Apr 7 20:05:20 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080407163254.0468c820@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Chionodoxa help Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:52:37 -0700 Hi, I've looked up in my copy of The Smaller Bulbs by Brian Mathew and here are the descriptions I find: C. luciliae (C. gigantea) "usually only one or two large upright flowers about 3-4 cm. in diameter, in a soft lavender-blue with a small white centre....There is a white form in cultivation. " He goes on to say that 'C. luciliae of gardens' that is offered in catalogs and the commonest species in cultivation will have to take the name C. siehei or C. forbesii. He describes the former as the vigorous version of the plant that has been wrongly grown as C. luciliae. Apparently at the time he wrote the book someone else thought C. forbesii was the same species, but at that point he wasn't convinced. The book was written in 1987 so But C. siehei is described as having 12 flowers in a one-sided raceme, each about 2 to 2.5 cm in diameter and a strong blue with a large white eye. (more purple if compared to C. sardensis). C. is described as having the richest blue with four and twelve slightly pendent flowers abut 2 to 2.5 cm. in diameter with almost no white eye in the centre, apart from the filaments. So probably Arnold's picture he added to the wiki is not correct, but I need some of you who are more expert than I am to help me figure out what to change it to. I thought it looked like Kelly's picture of C. sardensis which was what Jerry suggested it might be even though he didn't. Anybody grow these and have pictures of some of the species to add to the wiki? Confusing all of this is that Speta thought this genus should be moved to Scilla even though he moved most of Scilla into new genera. So Kew has these species: Scilla luciliae , Scilla sardensis , Scilla forbesii . It lists Scilla siehei as a synonym of Scilla forbesii. I'd love some guidance about how we should handle this on the wiki and what to rename Arnold's picture. Is there any consensus from any of you who know more about these genera than I do? Thanks in advance for your help on this. Mary Sue From arnold@nj.rr.com Mon Apr 7 20:59:26 2008 Message-Id: <47FAC33D.8050805@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Chionodoxa help Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:58:37 -0400 Mary Sue: Thanks for trying to clarify this quagmire. I also saw references to the mixed up naming in the genus. I would be willing to send a bulb or two to someone who thinks they can ID the bulb. Arnold From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Apr 7 21:00:22 2008 Message-Id: <001501c89914$39c003e0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Chionodoxa help Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 21:02:31 -0400 Mary Sue, I would say that Arnold’s image might be Chionodoxa sardensis (Scilla sardensis) as I know it. As I grow it, this species has smaller flowers and lacks the white at the base of the tepals. The color varies with the age of the flower and the temperature. Flowers which have developed in cold conditions are a very rich dark blue as in Scilla sibirica and Tecophilaea. But the color quickly fades to the color shown in Arnold’s image. Arnold, where do the flowers in your image fall in the overall size range of glories of the snow? Rightly or wrongly, I rely on the smaller flower size, more intense color and lack of a white eye to distinguish this species from the others. Plants received years ago under the name Ch. gigantea were distinct: the flowers were very few per stem and bigger than those of any other sorts I know. They also had the poorest color of the group – lots of white and less intense blue. Also, when in bloom one of the flowers would generally open skyward. In my garden these various plants were originally planted in separated clumps, but over the years I suspect that there has been a lot of hybridization. There are also hundreds if not thousands of plants growing in the lawns here; they don’t make much of a show however because they are generally well scattered. These plants in the lawn came under the name Ch, luciliae years ago, just as the name Ch. forbesii was beginning to appear in the popular literature and some catalogs. One way which I am using to try to get a sense of what’s what is to “retro-fit” the names. Here ‘s what I mean. If it’s true that the cultivar ‘Pink Giant’ is a form of Ch. forbesii (or Scilla forbesii), then I’m assuming that the ones in the garden which most closely resemble it are the same species. ‘Pink Giant’ by the way is an odd color as I have it here. When the flowers first began to open, they reminded me very much of Lycoris sprengeri: a sort of purplish pink with bright blue patches. Now that the flowers have been open for a few days, they remind me of certain garden hyacinths (‘Amethyst’ and ‘Pink Pearl’ come to mind). It’s an interesting color, but it’s not what I think of as pink. The pink form of Scilla bifolia is also blooming now. In bud and in cool weather, this is definitely a soft pink. But it quickly matures to white with only the vaguest hint of pink. It’s a pretty little plant. And now I remember something I’ve mentioned in the past but it fits into this discussion. The first time I received bulbs under the name Chionodoxa sardensis over forty years ago, they turned out to be Scilla bifolia when they bloomed. I held that against them for a few years, but I eventually came to realize that they are a fine little bulb in their own right. They not only naturalize here but they cross with the glories of the snow. The color of Scilla bifolia is a good dark blue, but it lacks the intensity and sparkle of Scilla sardensis. Also in the wings and ready to come on stage: one received as Chionodoxa ‘Blue Giant’. I have no idea what this is yet. By the way, I really like the image Roger posted of little blue things. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From arnold@nj.rr.com Mon Apr 7 21:20:22 2008 Message-Id: <47FAC834.2070001@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Chionodoxa help Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:19:48 -0400 Jim: I would say that the plant pictured on the Wiki Wiki is on the larger side of the little blue Chiondoxa's I have . There are some others which are much smaller and have a deeper blue. I think they look like blue neon lights at dusk. By the way the smaller and darker blues have much more downward facing flowers. I can get an image tomorrow if the light is good. Arnold From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Apr 7 21:19:46 2008 Message-Id: <001601c89916$f474ba80$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Chionodoxa help Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 21:22:03 -0400 I just re-read the way I described the color of Chionodoxa/Scilla sardensis. In comparing it to Scilla sibirica, I meant to say that they are similar in intensity of color, not in hue of color. Scilla sardensis as I know it has never shown a hint of the turquoise color of Scilla sibirica. It always begins a very dark, saturated, intense blue - but in our climate it quickly fades to a softer color. Jim McKenney From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Apr 7 21:27:21 2008 Message-Id: <001701c89917$e8a871f0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Chionodoxa help Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 21:28:53 -0400 Good. I'll try to do the same. Most of the Chionodoxa here have been in bloom for a while, but the weather this week has been dull and cold so they are holding up well. The ones which you describe as much smaller and deeper blue are the ones which sound like Ch. sardensis to me - unless they are Scilla bifolia. Your "much smaller" made me wonder about that. Ch. sardensis as I have it here is smaller, but not "much" smaller than the others. When I look at them it's like the difference between a penny and a nickel. Scilla bifolia is smaller yet. Let's see what tomorrow turns up. Jim Mc Kenney From c-mueller@tamu.edu Mon Apr 7 21:31:21 2008 Message-Id: <47FA84BE.E5F2.008A.0@ag.tamu.edu> From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: Herbertia issues Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:31:11 -0500 Dear All, This sounds like a good way to get past Herbertia articles, but I do know - from viewing the stacks - at Texas A&M that the issues are all from the past - not from the present. Don't recollect when the issues stopped here. The UT Department of Botany was sucked up into the Biology Department a few years ago. At one time they had their own library, and librarian. I remember browsing in the stacks near the librarian's counter once years ago when a graduate student asked about the availability of a certain book. The Librarian said it could no longer be found, and he reluctantly went away. Then she turned to the Assistant Librarian and said, "Heh! heh! I've got it right here...but I certainly wouldn't loan it to him....! So now that librarians send pdf's or somesuch the chances of getting material should be greater than ever. -Cynthia Mueller >>> "Deborah Jordan" 4/7/2008 6:50 PM >>> Hi all-- I've had no problems getting what I need from past Herbertia's from two of the major universities in Texas. Just email the librarian and they will pdf you what you request. They usually reply quickly to your request email, but then it might take them a couple of weeks to send you the pdf articles requested--I'm sure its because they are very busy. Once they know you it gets faster. Debbie Those universities would be Texas A&M College Station and UT Texas in Austin--both have wonderful and helpful librarians. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Apr 8 01:20:49 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Chionodoxa help Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 22:06:07 -0700 Someone in Holland has a very large collection of bulbs, and a different person has been photographing them as they come into bloom and posting them on the Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum. You may like to compare these pictures with our wiki ones. There are photos of these chionodoxas and scillas so far: March 10 http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1331.90 Scilla mischtschenkoana CSW. '99 1 Scilla mischtschenkoana Zwanenburg J.R. '01 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- March 22 http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1331.120 Chionodoxa forbesii Pink Giant PCN. '06 Chionodoxa forbesii (luciliae) Zwanenburg PCN. '93 March 24 Scilla ingridae Chionoscilla allenii J.H. '01 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- March 27 http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1331.135 Chionodoxa luciliae CSW. '01 Chionodoxa sardensis PCN. '05 Scilla melaina Cam. B. '01 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- March 29 http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1331.150 Scilla bifolia Alba 2 Scilla siberica Taurica Mon. '98 To enlarge the thumbnail pictures, click on the thumbnail just once and wait a bit. Diane Whitehead From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Apr 8 11:57:56 2008 Message-Id: <000c01c89991$9a1193d0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Chionodoxa help Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 11:59:59 -0400 No Scilla/Chionodoxa photos today. And contrary to what I said in a previous post, they are not holding up well. Instead, they are looking water-stained, bloated and bleached. I overheard a tv weather report last night which said our temperatures this week are running 20 degrees below normal. No sun, wet and cold: can this be Maryland in April? A small planting of tulips of the pulchella group is full of plants in advanced bud (some were open before the curtain was pulled over the sun). I took a look at them today and they are full of botrytis: the petals are splotched with necrotic spots. And something is eating the arilate irises: slugs? I don't see slime trails, so I'm not sure. Is there some other early riser which eats irises? A startling event yesterday afternoon gave me a real thrill. I stepped out of the house and absentmindedly focused on the edge of the pool. A four foot high tower of a bird suddenly ballooned into a blur of silver, gray and blue and flapped away revealing a huge wingspan. It was of course a great blue heron, a relatively common bird in this area. Usually they are so shy that one does not get close to them before they fly. To see such a huge bird in a tiny back yard garden really puts their size into perspective. Its wingspan was so wide that there was hardly room for it to flap without hitting something. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From djordan68@comcast.net Tue Apr 8 13:48:57 2008 Message-Id: <0662FA9AD361449CAAC4B79B256D7BE0@debbiePC> From: "Deborah Jordan" Subject: Herbertia issues Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 12:45:26 -0500 I went through the main library at A & M and they have all the back issues beyond 2003 (there are none newer--IBS is 4 years behind in publishing them). I can easily have any article sent in pdf format--just takes them 2-3 weeks. Once a student had an issue checked out (they have 2 issues combined into one hardbound cover on most of these) and it took until the student returned the issue. I haven't found it hard to get any scientific type paper I've needed for research--you just have to be nice, patient, and persistant. There is also a university out of Washington state (the name eludes me at the moment) that was also very easy to get pdf copies through email from also. They were really helpful for some obscure stuff on JSTAR. Sending the librarian a thank you card afterward helps too, for the future. Debbie Houston, Texas From totototo@telus.net Tue Apr 8 14:39:16 2008 Message-Id: <20080408183907.78RHJ3PAM8@priv-edmwaa05.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Chionodoxa help Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 11:36:19 -0700 I doubt chionodoxic confusion will be sorted out any time soon for a couple of reasons. First, botanical research on this group is probably not a very high priority, and (at a guess) it's long overdue for a careful reinvestigation not only of specimens in herbaria, but also of what's actually growing out there in the wild. Second, it appears that chionodoxa is a promiscuous genus that will hybridize at the drop of a hat, even going out-caste by crossing w. scillas. Since we are *gardeners* dealing with *garden* plants, it's probably a safe bet that a lot of our plants are hybrids of indeterminate parentage. For the record, I've gone through my library and noted briefly what various publications say about Chionodoxa, as follows: 1949, Manual of Cultivated Plants, Bailey, rev. ed. C. luciliae Boissier includes cvv Tmolusii & Gigantea C. sardensis 1971, Collins Guide to Bulbs, 2nd ed. C. cretica C. gigantea C. lochiae C. luciliae C. nana C. sardensis C. siehei C. tmoli8 1973, "Bulbs", by Roy Genders C. cretica C. gigantea C. luciliae C. nana C. sardensis one other species not named 1973, Dwarf Bulbs, Mathew C. cretica C. nana included under C. cretica, whtever that means C. gigantea C. lochiae C. luciliae C. sardensis C. siehei C. tmoli included in C. luciliae 1976, Hortus Third C. gigantea = cultivar of C. luciliae C. luciliae Boissier C. sardensis C. tmoli = cultivar of C. luciliae no distinction betw. C. lucilise hort. and C. luciliae Boissier 1981, Bulbs, Bulbous Plant of Europe and their Allies, Grey-Wilson, & Mathew C. cretica C. nana C. albescens (remaining species are Turkish in origin) 1981, The Bulb Book, Rix & Phillips C. cretica C. lochiae C. albescens This is the original publication of the combination C. albescens, btw. The plant was formerly considered a Scilla. C. luciliae Boissier C. gigantea = C. luciliae Boissier C. siehei C. sardensis C. nana auct. = C. albescens 1986, The European Garden Flora, vol. I C. albescens C. cretica = C. nana C. sardensis C. forbesii C. luciliae hort = C. forbesii C. tmolusii = C. forbesii C. siehei = C. forbesii C. luciliae Boissier C. lochiae C. nana C. albescens 1987, The Smaller Bulbs, Mathew C. albescens C. gigantea = C. luciliae Boissier C. lochiae C. luciliae Boissier C. luciliae hort. = C. siehei or C. forbesii C. nana C. cretica = C. nana C. sardensis C. siehei C. tmolusii = C. siehei C. forbesii 1998, Plant Finder, 1998-1999 Edition C. cretica = C. nana C. forbesii - includes Siehei group C. gigantea = C. luciliae Gigantea group C. luciliae Boissier - valid species, includes Gigantea group C. luciliae hort. = C. forbesii C. mariesii - invalid name C. nana - good species C. sardensis - good species C. siehei = C. forbesii Siehei group C. tmolusi = C. forbesii 'Tmoli' I'm not altogether sure if this summary is very useful, but hopefully it will give us all some idea of the way in which chionodoxa classification has evolved over the last 60 years. To me, it looks like the nomenclature is stabilizing in terms of species boundaries, but Mary Sue's comments about some Chionodoxa being moved to Scilla suggests tha the situation is still very much in a state of flux. What, btw, has happened to C. albescens? A plant under is now sold in garden centers in the fall which closely resembles the picture in The Bulb Book, but the name is curiously missing from the 1998-1999 Plant Finder. I've had a clump of it for many years, unidentified though the Bulb Book was bedside reading. I believe this clump is traceable to the nursery run by Ed Lohbrunner until 1984 or thereabouts, so this stock probably goes back a long way. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Apr 8 15:29:43 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Chionodoxa help Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 14:30:00 -0500 On March 31 I wrote: "It seems like Chionodoxa cultivars can come in pink, white or blue." Trying to identify Chinodoxa species by color seems total fantasy. Species are defined by the 'naughty parts',other flower structures, sizes and other relationships. Color seems about the most futile criterion of all. Dancing on the head of a pin..... Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Apr 8 18:30:51 2008 Message-Id: <47FBF1FD.5080502@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Chionodoxa help Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 18:30:21 -0400 To continue the thread. Well I had a good hard look at the drifts of Chiondoxa today and I think that Jim hit the nail on the head. I think they are all the same and just in different stages of maturity. The newly opened flowers are a deep blue and as they age they fade considerable to a pale blue. I will post an additional image to the Wiki Wiki which I think may be a different bulb. Arnold From jshaw@opuntiads.com Tue Apr 8 18:46:05 2008 Message-Id: <404C41CEEBCA45D88CC166BD76E707E8@JoePC> From: "Joe" Subject: a bit off topic, Crinums and Marcelle Sheppard Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 17:46:02 -0500 Hi Gang, After a fair respite Marcelle Sheppard is back to selling Crinums. Some of you may recall that she was badly injured nearly 3 years ago when part of a tree fell on her. However, she survived Hurricane Rita and a few other calamaties and has been growing crinums the whole time. Her sales page can be found at: http://www.marcellescrinums.com/html/availableplants.html Her Crinum information page is at: http://www.marcellescrinums.com/ Cordially, Joe Conroe TX (where bulbs are "a bloomin") From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Apr 8 19:21:26 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080408172021.0171f868@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Chionodoxa help Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 17:26:55 -0700 Discussion of a dark-colored Chionodoxa larger than C. sardensis made me think of two larger, darker-flowered plants I have here, one that is quite tall and is probably C. siehei, and another I grew from seed under the name C. tmolii. I thought I remembered a discussion of the genus in Brian Mathew's late lamented "Bulb Newsletter," but I find the note (in issue no. 7) to be quite short and not committed to identifying C. tmoli (not tmolii, for reasons Brian explains) with better-understood taxa. The note also mentions that at the time (1994) a National Collection of Chionodoxa was held by Alan Dickinson. Does anyone know if he still has this collection? Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From msittner@mcn.org Tue Apr 8 21:10:51 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080408174107.015e7048@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Tritoniopsis Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 18:09:18 -0700 Neil Crawford's question about the identity of one of his wife's photos from their South African trip stimulated me to add a number of Cameron McMaster's Tritoniopsis pictures to the wiki. I'd procrastinated since I don't know anyone who grows this genus and because I read somewhere that they don't bloom very often except after fire. But what struck me as I added the pictures was the different times of the year Cameron saw them and the number of different species in the general area where he lives. And a lot of them are summer bloomers even though from a mostly winter rainfall area. Does anyone grow any of these? I don't know if any of these pictures will help you with your ID. Neil. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tritoniopsis Mary Sue From dells@voicenet.com Wed Apr 9 07:10:05 2008 Message-Id: <20080409111001.9D1124C011@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 169 Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 07:09:35 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 169" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Pieter van der Walt: 1. Seed of Crinum buphanoides, “from my collection, though the plants originally come from near Lady Smith. I had brought the plants indoors and hand-pollinated them in order to get good seed set, so they should be pure as well. Interestingly plants of C. buphanoides appear to be completely self-sterile and I also had no luck cross-pollinating them with any other species.”   2. Seed of Iris laevigata, dark purple 3. Seed of Zantedeschia rehmanii, “they are from my collection and are a pale pink colour. I grow them in water (the container sits in the water but is never submerged), but take them out as soon as they enter dormancy to keep them dry and prevent them from rotting. I noticed that some of the seeds which fell into the containers have already germinated, so it's best to sow them fresh.” 4. Seed of Tulbaghia acutiloba “from a wild population on our farm near Brits near Pretoria” 5. Seed of Tulbaghia simmleri From Mary Sue Ittner: 6. Small bulbs of Ledebouria cooperi, a small summer grower from South Africa Thank you, Pieter and Mary Sue !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From cumbleton@yahoo.co.uk Wed Apr 9 12:05:05 2008 Message-Id: <001501c89a5b$7c50ca30$0200a8c0@MeshComputer> From: "Paul Cumbleton" Subject: Chionodoxa help Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 17:05:09 +0100 Here at Wisley the RHS did a trial of "little blue bulbs" which ran from 2000 to 2003 and included about 80 species and cultivars from 8 genera, including Chionodoxa. One of the aims of the trial was to clarify the confused taxonomy of this group of bulbs. The results of the trial were published in a colour bulletin written by Brian Mathew and Melanie Dashwood. The bulletin can either be purchased for a modest fee or viewed for free on the RHS website at: http://www.rhs.org.uk/learning/publications/pubs_bulletins.htm (Scroll down to find the relevant bulletin, entitled "Hyacinthaceae - little blue bulbs") Hopefully this will help with the identifications. I think the original picture Arnold posted a question about is probably C. sardensis Paul Cumbleton RHS Wisley, UK Zone 8 From armadillo@mundo-r.com Wed Apr 9 15:49:52 2008 Message-Id: <000801c89a7b$44b003a0$0e2f33d4@r> From: "r" Subject: tigridias Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 21:52:39 +0200 hi friends, im fernando from spain, new in this list, i enjoy al class of plant, now im looking for tigridias species diferent than pavonia, in the discussion list i see that someone have some tigriodias species, so i would like tomexchange seeds or small bulbs, need help and will apreciate your coments. best regards fernando palacio From johannes-ulrich-urban@T-Online.de Wed Apr 9 18:24:18 2008 Message-Id: <1Jjii1-01boki0@fwd25.aul.t-online.de> From: "Uli Urban" Subject: Hippeastrum aulicum Date: 09 Apr 2008 21:23 GMT Dear All, Sorry to be so late in answering to questions! I grow Hippeatrum aulicum in an open compost made of shredded wood composted with grass clippings and horse manure. This wonderful compost is mixed with perlite and commercial potting compost.It works wonders on epiphytic cacti and also on the two epiphytic Hippeastrum species, H.calyptratum the other. I saw them in nature growin on moss covered tree trunks where the large fleshy root system formed extensive thick structured along the trunk. This compost is too fine for orchids, except terrestial ones and unfortunately tends to decompose further. Greetings from cold and frosty Germany, Uli From johannes-ulrich-urban@T-Online.de Wed Apr 9 18:24:13 2008 Message-Id: <1Jjii2-01boks0@fwd25.aul.t-online.de> From: "Uli Urban" Subject: Arisaema and rodents Date: 09 Apr 2008 22:23 GMT Dear All! Does anyone of you know if Arisaema tubers are prone to be eaaten by rodents if planted in the open garden? For fear of this I have always kept mine in pots but find this troublesome on the long run. So far I have never lost any Aroids because auf rodents in my mouse- and vole-ridden garden but it is absolutely impossible to grow Tulips, Lilies and Crocus in the open ground. With many thanks, Uli From xerantheum@gmail.com Wed Apr 9 22:16:26 2008 Message-Id: From: "Nhu Nguyen" Subject: new additions Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 19:16:25 -0700 Hi everyone, I have added a few new species and photos additions to older entries to the Wiki. Enjoy! Muscari comosum: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Muscari Asphodelus aestivus: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Asphodelus Tulbaghia dregeana: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tulbaghia#dregeana Lachenalia pallida: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/LachenaliaSpeciesThree#pallida Nhu From studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it Thu Apr 10 02:22:43 2008 Message-Id: From: giorgio pozzi Subject: Hippeastrum aulicum Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:22:40 +0200 Il giorno 09/apr/08, alle ore 23:23, Uli Urban ha scritto: > I grow Hippeatrum aulicum > in an open compost made of shredded wood composted with grass > clippings > and horse manure. This wonderful compost is mixed with perlite and > commercial potting compost. May you please explain better giving us the rates of each component in your mixture ? thanks Giorgio Pozzi Travedona (VA) Italy zone 7/8 studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it From PJOSPUX@aol.com Thu Apr 10 02:36:21 2008 Message-Id: From: PJOSPUX@aol.com Subject: Arisaema and rodents Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 02:35:39 EDT Dear Uli, I grow a number of different species of Arisaema in three different beds in my garden without any problem. I know definitely that mice eat the flowers of my hellebores and squirrels eat the crocus bulbs though I have yet to identify what the rabbits, foxes and badgers eat. Pheasants and pigeons eat the leaves of crocuses. Paul, In Kent UK where the brief snow has gone, but the several frosts have burnt magnolia and camelia blooms From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Apr 10 21:09:40 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Arisaema and rodents Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:09:23 -0700 I have seen a deer nip off an Arisaema flower that was potted and placed beside a window. Ones in the garden have not been eaten, though, and I suspect that the deer was just reacting to my staging of the one in flower. Seedling arisaemas have not been eaten - these are usually in the greenhouse, and I make efforts to keep it rat-free. Any hellebores that I pot and keep in a hoophouse get eaten by rats - flowers, and young leaves. Ones in the garden don't seem to be touched. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Apr 10 20:17:11 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080410182039.016fd8c8@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Arisaema and rodents Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:21:57 -0700 Paul wrote, I know definitely that mice eat the flowers of >my hellebores and squirrels eat the crocus bulbs though I have yet to >identify what the rabbits, foxes and badgers eat. Pheasants and pigeons >eat the >leaves of crocuses. Here, rabbits eat the leaves of crocuses in preference to anything else growing around them. The main predators of crocus corms are voles and field mice. Nothing eats hellebore flowers here. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From Neil.Crawford@volvo.com Fri Apr 11 04:09:50 2008 Message-Id: From: "Crawford Neil" Subject: Tritoniopsis (and Watsonia) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:08:17 +0200 Thank you very much Mary Sue, but I'm afraid it just raised our level of confusion! Cameron' s Tritoniopsis ramosa isn't particuarly like ours. On the other hand ours http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2393/2375260620_7ba70b13ff.jpg is very like the one in Audrey Moriartys Outeniqua,tsitsikamma&eastern little karoo field guide#2. She's called that one Tritoniopsis ramosa var. unguiculata, does that mean that her painting shows a T.ramosa variant that looks somewhat like T.unguiculata. Or has there been a change of name since her book was published? And heres more confusion, this orange one, seems to us very like the pink Watsonia we asked about before, so for want of a better name, we're calling this one Watsonia galpinii too! http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2357/2403429993_6b9feae385.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2200/2403430233_20e237120e_b.jpg Any ideas? Best regards Neil > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 18:09:18 -0700 > From: Mary Sue Ittner > Subject: [pbs] Tritoniopsis > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20080408174107.015e7048@mail.mcn.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Neil Crawford's question about the identity of one of his > wife's photos > from their South African trip stimulated me to add a number > of Cameron > McMaster's Tritoniopsis pictures to the wiki. I'd > procrastinated since I > don't know anyone who grows this genus and because I read > somewhere that > they don't bloom very often except after fire. But what > struck me as I > added the pictures was the different times of the year > Cameron saw them and > the number of different species in the general area where he > lives. And a > lot of them are summer bloomers even though from a mostly > winter rainfall > area. Does anyone grow any of these? I don't know if any of > these pictures > will help you with your ID. Neil. > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Tritoniopsis > > Mary Sue > From johannes-ulrich-urban@T-Online.de Fri Apr 11 08:19:52 2008 Message-Id: <1JkI8m-0nEIs60@fwd31.aul.t-online.de> From: "Uli Urban" Subject: Epiphytic compost Date: 11 Apr 2008 12:13 GMT Dear All, My compost for epipytic cacti and epiphytic Hippeastrum is made of roughly equal parts of the given composted wood, perlite and/or seramis and commercial peat based potting compost of good quality. It has to "feel and look good" when I mix it. It is not a standardized mix because the composted wood differs according to the grade of branches shredded and the variety of wood but it is very good. I should add that I grow my epiphytic Hippeastrums in clay pots whereas I grow all other bulbs in plastic containers. With plastic in Hippeastrums I find often too much moisture that cannot escape through the walls of plasctic pots but will do so with clay. Uli From dszeszko@gmail.com Fri Apr 11 12:31:04 2008 Message-Id: <9912b0b60804110930o4786b4b1id3ecce628ca1048d@mail.gmail.com> From: "Dennis Szeszko" Subject: H. aulicum potting mix Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:30:56 -0500 Uli: It is interesting that you mention using horse manure as part of a potting mix. However, I think that you need to mention that it needs to be composted and cannot be added "fresh" because it may release too many nutrients too quickly and burn plants. I find horse manure a WONDERFUL addition to all sorts of potting mixes....especially terrestrial orchid mixes. Although it seems counterintuitive, composted horse manure is relatively inert and it does not engender growth of fungus or bacteria that would be deleterious to the geophyte. (At least not in my experience). Also, it functions as a slow-release fertilizer to the plant. I got the idea to use horse manure a few years back when I read about an orchid grower who used only 100% composted horse manure as a medium to grow Disa. For those of you who don't know, Disa is a genus of African orchids that are very difficult (almost impossible) to grow ex-situ because they are very sensitive to pH, dissolved salts and impurities in water. I figured that if fussy Disa orchids can be grown beautifully in horse manure then perhaps it would be interesting to experiment with using horse manure with other terrestrial orchids. I use a mixture of 25% composted horse manure, 25% mulched oak leaves and 50% sand to grow my terrestrial orchids and it gives terrific results with Bletia, Funkiella, Dichromanthus, Schiedeella, and Sarcoglottis. Uli, you mention that the potting medium you use is "too fine for orchids", but the potting mix you describe (without perlite or the amendment of commercial growing mix) would work for some epiphytic orchids in the Catasetinae tribe. (e.g. Catasetum, Mormodes, and Clowesia). This potting mixture placed in an open basket would be excellent for potting a vigorously growing Catasetum. I use pure horse manure to grow my Catasetums and it does the trick. > > Dear All, > > > Sorry to be so late in answering to questions! I grow Hippeatrum aulicum > in an open compost made of shredded wood composted with grass clippings > and horse manure. This wonderful compost is mixed with perlite and > commercial potting compost.It works wonders on epiphytic cacti and also > on the two epiphytic Hippeastrum species, H.calyptratum the other. I saw > them in nature growin on moss covered tree trunks where the large fleshy > root system formed extensive thick structured along the trunk. This > compost is too fine for orchids, except terrestial ones and > unfortunately tends to decompose further. > > Greetings from cold and frosty Germany, Uli > > > From haweha@hotmail.com Fri Apr 11 14:34:24 2008 Message-Id: From: Hans-Werner Hammen Subject: H. aulicum potting mix Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:34:10 +0000 I grow Hippeastrum v.robustum and H.papilio and, hybrid seedlings of these (in both directions, bloomable bulbs) indoors in plastic containers and I experienced maximum performance without the usage of sophisticated recipes of substrate. I use coco fiber substrate reconstituted from coco bloxx for example "Kokohum" (Company: Neudorff) but other brands are much cheaper - particularly those from the Grow'n Head Shop or from the Third World Tradecenters. Seramis (porous, volume related water uptake = 25 vol%) or other, nonporous, expanded clay bullets (grainsize 2-4 mm) are a good idea to be used as drainage layer. On the other hand, using clay POTS with the idea in mind that the porous walls remove excess water is not the stone of wisdom when HARD tap water is used. I apply water exclusively from the bottom, every 2nd day. In very variable amounts according to the weather and the water demand, respectively. Lukewarm water with mineral fertilizer (liquid 6-3-6, 1 to 1.5 mL per L), always. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/?action=view¤t=Haulicum0370.jpg http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/?action=view¤t=4164.jpg http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/?action=view¤t=4007.jpg http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/?action=view¤t=1240.jpg (cluster of H.aulicum v.robustum in coco fiber substrate) http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/?action=view¤t=041_25.jpg http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/?action=view¤t=4241.jpg (primary hybrid H.aulicum v.robustum x H.papilio) http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/?action=view¤t=0685_s.jpg (H.papilio x "Donau" cluster produced of seedling 4 y old, yes in coco fiber substrate.) http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/?action=view¤t=1299.jpg (1/2 y seedlings in coco fiber + super thick drainage layer of Seramis) _________________________________________________________________ Die aktuelle Frühjahrsmode - Preise vergleichen bei MSN Shopping http://shopping.msn.de/category/damenbekleidung/bcatid66/forsale?text=category:damenbekleidung&edt=1&ptnrid=230 From johannes-ulrich-urban@T-Online.de Fri Apr 11 19:25:33 2008 Message-Id: <1JkScQ-0gPNeS0@fwd31.aul.t-online.de> From: "Uli Urban" Subject: compost Date: 11 Apr 2008 23:18 GMT Dear Dennis and Dear All, Very interesting what you write about horse manure and orchids. I feel slightly off topic.... but still. I have never dared to use pure horse manure on any plant and for sure never fresh. The mentioned wood/grass cutting and horse manure compost is composted for at least one year before I use it. (German winter slows down rotting) When starting with fresh material the whole heap becomes steaming hot. The ripe compost is always full of fungi mycelia but they seem to be of the beneficial sort.... I always try to have a stock of this wonderful material but by keeping it it decomposes further and becomes almost peat like but never as wet or dense as peat. I had a sad failure using this compost with a large Oncidium (not rare, it was one of the commercial yellow hybrids but several years old)so I became careful. I "developed" this mix for epiphytic cacti like Epiphyllums and Selenicereus and Schlumbergera and they bave never performed better since. My two seedlings of Pamianthe peruviana are also grown in this mix and I add a good portion of it to my Amorphophallus and Lilium pots. Also Gesneriads like it...... I use rain water exclusively for watering. So far I have never ever had the problem of soil born disease or fungal infection using compost of high organic content. Having read your lines I will become more daring in using horse manure components in other plants and orchids, too. Hope you do not mind the slightly off-topic way of this contribution................. Uli From kellso@irvincentral.com Fri Apr 11 19:32:29 2008 Message-Id: <47FFF4F5.3080609@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: compost Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:32:05 -0500 Doesn't seem off-topic to me. What's wrong with a bulb gardener gettin' down 'n' dirty? After a long day in the bulb nursery, I'm usually pooped. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ Uli Urban wrote: > Dear Dennis and Dear All, > > > Very interesting what you write about horse manure and orchids. I feel > slightly off topic.... but still. I have never dared to use pure horse > manure on any plant and for sure never fresh. The mentioned wood/grass > cutting and horse manure compost is composted for at least one year > before I use it. (German winter slows down rotting) When starting with > fresh material the whole heap becomes steaming hot. The ripe compost is > always full of fungi mycelia but they seem to be of the beneficial > sort.... I always try to have a stock of this wonderful material but by > keeping it it decomposes further and becomes almost peat like but never > as wet or dense as peat. I had a sad failure using this compost with a > large Oncidium (not rare, it was one of the commercial yellow hybrids > but several years old)so I became careful. I "developed" this mix for > epiphytic cacti like Epiphyllums and Selenicereus and Schlumbergera and > they bave never performed better since. My two seedlings of Pamianthe > peruviana are also grown in this mix and I add a good portion of it to > my Amorphophallus and Lilium pots. Also Gesneriads like it...... I use > rain water exclusively for watering. So far I have never ever had the > problem of soil born disease or fungal infection using compost of high > organic content. > Having read your lines I will become more daring in using horse manure > components in other plants and orchids, too. > > Hope you do not mind the slightly off-topic way of this > contribution................. Uli > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From alanidae@gmail.com Sat Apr 12 09:46:31 2008 Message-Id: From: "Alani Davis" Subject: OT, Araucaria talk Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 09:46:30 -0400 Hey all and Tsuh I am growing *Araucaria angustifolia* from southern Brasil, though they are far too young to produce cones so far. They do quite well here and seem to be the best adapted species for the panhandle of Florida and the deeper southeastern United States. A friend has a specimen that just pasted the 10 meter/30 ft and is developing the attractive mature bark. So far it seems to thrive in our summer heat and humidity and is not damaged but freezes to just below 20F/-7C. *Araucaria bidwillii* can be grown here but suffers tip burn from freezes and heavy frosts if not protected say by tree canopy. *Araucaria araucana* does not not thrive during the summers, and *Araucaria heterophylla* is too tender here. Alani Davis Zone 8b From auchgourishbotgard@falsyde.sol.co.uk Sat Apr 12 17:31:58 2008 Message-Id: <016701c89ce4$a668ed30$0501a8c0@homepc> From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" Subject: ref Bulbous Genus 'BRODIAEA' in Alliaceae Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 22:32:03 +0100 I have an unusual request but relevant I suppose to this forum, hopefully ! Would anyone know after which Brodie, gentleman or lady, the bulbous Genus Brodiaea was named please? Wearing my non botanical and horticultural hat I am the hereditary keeper of the genealogy and history for those people of Scots ancestry named Brodie, or the several linked spelling derivatives, and due to the kindness of a Scots American gentleman whose family have lived in the USA for several generations but visiting Auchgourish Botanic Garden here last summer he kindly sent me seed of a range of Californian bulbous plants all of which have this past week decided to risk sticking their heads up in their respective seed pots despite Saturday [today] being the first day it hasn't snowed over night for nearly a month. Any tips on the care for Brodiae bulbs as seedlings and flowering stage would be of great help please. Do they "do" acid soils or need higher pH's than that. Moisture requirements, anything please such as temperature tolerances = USDA Zones which we roughly understand on this side of the pond. It would be profoundly ironic for a Brodie to bump off plants bearing our name. The two species which have germinated are B.B. coronaria & elegans. If I can keep them going I will try some others another year. I understand that some B. species have been re-assigned to another Genus, does anyone know which? We have around 60 to 80 cms of accummulated snow which has slid down the sides of our polytunnel [hoophouse] in which the above seedlings, et al have germinated, they are safe from snow cover and effects of severe frost as too are the Frits and Lilium, etc but how much cold can they take and for how long ? Nobody I know of in Scotland has attempted species of this genus. Regards, Iain Iain Brodie of Falsyde Auchgourish Botanic Garden Inverness-shire. Scotland. From studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it Sat Apr 12 18:00:03 2008 Message-Id: From: studio pozzi taubert Subject: ref Bulbous Genus 'BRODIAEA' in Alliaceae Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 23:59:51 +0200 The genus Brodiaea (clusterlilies) belongs to the order Asparagales. Brodiaea occurs in the West Coast of the United States, especially northern California. The genus was named in honour of Scottish botanist James Brodie (1744-1824).[1] Il giorno 12/apr/08, alle ore 23:32, Iain Brodie of Falsyde ha scritto: > I have an unusual request but relevant I suppose to this forum, > hopefully ! > > Would anyone know after which Brodie, gentleman or lady, the > bulbous Genus Brodiaea was named please? > > > Regards, Iain > > Iain Brodie of Falsyde > Auchgourish Botanic Garden > Inverness-shire. Scotland. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki giorgio pozzi Tavedona (Varese) Italy zone 7/8 studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Sat Apr 12 18:04:27 2008 Message-Id: <33048032.1208037862972.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: ref Bulbous Genus 'BRODIAEA' in Alliaceae Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:04:22 -0500 (GMT-05:00) have an unusual request but relevant I suppose to this forum, hopefully ! > >Would anyone know after which Brodie, gentleman or lady, the bulbous Genus Brodiaea was named please? > James Brodie of Brodie (1744-1824), a Scottish politician and botanist. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA From jshields@indy.net Sat Apr 12 18:17:24 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080412180507.00b12fa8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: ref Bulbous Genus 'BRODIAEA' in Alliaceae Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 18:17:21 -0400 Hi Iain and all, I grow a couple species of Brodiaea outdoors in a raised bed rock garden here in USDA zone 5, central Indiana. The weather is better here at the moment than yours is, but I'll still defer going outdoors to hunt for the appropriate markers until the wind and rain go away, if you don't mind. I think they are B. californica and B. coronaria, but I need to check. They seem to have been hardy year round outdoors, at least so far. They grow in summer and disappear below ground in winter. I've been growing B. pallida inside my cool greenhouse, since it wants to grow in winter. If I put some of the pallida outdoors, they might very well decide they wanted to grow in summer. Best regards, Jim ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sat Apr 12 18:42:52 2008 Message-Id: <002401c89cee$378e47c0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: ref Bulbous Genus 'BRODIAEA' in Alliaceae Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 18:40:31 -0400 Blue Dicks, which we now call Dichelostemma capitatum but which in the past has been called Brodiaea capitata and B. pulchella, is in bloom now in my protected cold frame (which might as well be the open ground this year - it has not been closed in months). This is a favorite. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 where it's happening now: tulips, hyacinths, squills, Erythronium, Fritillaria, blood root, wild sweet William (Phlox divaricata), toothwort, Virginia bluebells, trilliums, daffodils, Allium zebdanense and way too much lesser celandine : as usual, everything's popping at once! My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From msittner@mcn.org Sat Apr 12 21:33:24 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080412180929.03958fc8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: ref Bulbous Genus 'BRODIAEA' in Alliaceae Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 18:31:44 -0700 Dear Iain, In 2003 and 2004 I organized a topic of the week where each week or less often in the second year we talked about a subject of interest. Usually someone introduced the topic and some of these introductions were very thorough and enlightening. I linked them all to the wiki so they could be easily found at a later date. We talked about three genera in what we call the Brodiaea alliance: Brodiaea, Dichelostemma, Triteleia. Some are still considering these to belong to the Themidaceae family. Since many of these plants are native to California and I am interested in my native plants I did the introductions. Some of the species are mountain plants and would be under snow in winter. Others are foothill plants where it wouldn't be as cold, but certainly freezing during their growing period. Others are coastal where temperatures are more moderate. You'd probably do better with the ones from higher elevations. Most of them come up in late fall after it starts raining after the dry summer (although the mountain ones I grow are later to appear), grow during winter and spring and bloom spring into summer before they go dormant. The mountain ones would have thunderstorms in summer, but the Mediterranean areas of California almost never get rain after it stops in spring until sometime in the fall. Coastal areas get some moisture from fog, but the soil is quite dry where the corms would be. The general advice is to keep them dry in summer as heat and water during dormancy is thought to cause problems. Some are probably more tolerant of summer water. There is a lot of information on the wiki, but here are my Topic of the Week Contributions: Triteleia: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2003-January/000108.html Dichelostemma: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2003-May/003016.html Brodiaea: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2003-June/subject.html I wrote about the last one every day and others joined in too, so I just listed the archives. Look for the posts under Brodiaea. There would be additional posts on Triteleia in the January 2003 archives and on Dichelostemma in the May 2003 archives. Blooming in my garden at the moment are Triteleia crocea, Triteleia hyacinthina, a form of Triteleia ixioides, and Triteleia laxa. Dichelostemma capitatum is appearing throughout the garden. I think I saw one Brodiaea open today, but most of them bloom much later. But we've had weeks of dry weather and warm temperatures and I'm afraid the blooming period may get shortened but my garden has been a riot of amazing bright colored bulbs for quite awhile now as my South African bulbs have been putting on quite a show. I hope this helps. Mary Sue From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Sun Apr 13 01:59:33 2008 Message-Id: <4801A12E.1020007@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: _Plant_ by Janet Marinelli - DK Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 22:59:10 -0700 I just bought a book called _Plant_ edited by Janet Marinelli from the bargain book table at a local Borders Bookstore for $9.99. It is a DK Book (Dorling Kindersley) so it is full of photos on every page, ISBN 0-7566-0589-X, U.S. edition published in 2005. It is in the same large format kind of style as _Flora_, _Botanica_, or the AHS A-Z Encyclopedia of Garden Plants, but is only about half the thickness of these others and with a far smaller total number of plants illustrated, about 2,000 vs. 10,000-20,000 in some of those others. However, because of this, the photos tend to be much larger. Also, instead of being alphabetical for all the plants, it is divided into plant groups (trees/shrubs, conifers, herbaceous plants, climbers, bulbous plants, grasses/bamboos, alpines, ferns, cacti/succulents, palms/cycads, orchids/bromeliads, carnivorous plants, invasive plants) and listed alphabetically within each division. Unusually, sometimes a listing is of a single species, and sometimes it is of a genus, often but not always with several individual species called out separately under the genus name. Also, unlike the books mentioned above, each species or genus always has information on how to cultivate it. So why am I writing about it? I almost ignored it since it was in the bargain books table and looked just like one of those other, larger, general plant books only not as comprehensive. I decided to flip through it rapidly anyway and noted that it had a section on bulbous plants. So I flipped to that section and the first page I opened to had a larger than lifesize full color photo of Griffinia liboniana with a half page article on Griffinia! So I slowly flipped through the bulbous section and found articles on: Babiana stricta, Brodiaea californica, Brunsvigia litoralis, Caliphruria subedentata, Calochortus, Clinanthus variegatus, Colchicun corsicum, Cyrtanthus, Daubenya aurea, Eucrosia mirabilis, Ismene amancaes, Leucocoryne purpurea, Moraea, Pamianthe peruviana, Petronymphe decora, Paramongaia weberbaeri, Rhodophiala , Phycella, Tecophilaea cyanocrocus, Worsleya rayneri, and Zephyranthes simpsonii, along with two-page articles on Crocus, Tulipa, Lilium and other more common genera but with photos only of more unusual species in these and other genera. (For example, for Hippeastrum there are only photos of H. reticulatum, H. papilio, and H. calyptratum; no hybrids.) So I had to rapidly flip (I was with friends and only happened to glance at this book at first) to another section and saw Bomarea, Canarina canariensis, Clianthus puniceus, Lapageria rosea, and Strongylodon macrobotrys. So I bought it. It turns out that the book is about rare or endangered plant species of every type and every article begins with a notation on the Red List status of that species or genus and how many species are listed. Not all are on the endangered list, but it seems the authors picked all the most interesting or unusual species in that category. So even though it *only* has 2,000 species listed, they are almost all ones that are just amazing or unusual or *desirable* from around the world. And it definitely has an emphasis on the idea that one way to save these plants is for gardeners to grow them. However, none of this is apparent from the front or back cover. (Front: "The ultimate visual reference to plants and flowers of the world." Back: "A spectacular A--Z survey of the world's plants from a gardener's perspective") In fact, I'd have to say the covers are completely misleading (and since I have _Flora_ and _Botanica_) I very nearly ignored it after looking at the cover text. It also has great stories about some of the rarest plants including ones no longer living in the wild and ones where all known plants in the world are clones of a single species and in some cases a single gender, and seems up-to-date on a couple of species I checked on (Deppea splendens and Cosmos atrosanguineus), so I assume it's got good information on all the other species it lists that I know nothing about. And the photos are typically wonderful DK style photos (if you like the DK style, which I happen to really like). One of the best surprise finds I've made in quite a while and the price can't be beat. (Original price $50.00 in the USA, $70.00 in Canada--my how things have changed in 3 short years...!) I don't imagine anyone knows how good it is. So they're probably available all over this country. Don't know about other countries. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Sun Apr 13 03:22:04 2008 Message-Id: <001f01c89d37$102c25f0$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: _Plant_ by Janet Marinelli - DK Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 08:21:58 +0100 I endorse Lee's view on 'Plant' - a good and interesting book, produced in association with Kew. It is not free from errors, though, so must be used cautiously. One that particularly jars is the use of Crocus sativa for Saffron Crocus (C. sativus is correct). I notice also an image of a drift of a white-flowered Erythronium captioned 'Erythronium grandiflorum Also known as the yellow avalanche lily...' Not much coordination between caption writing and image selection there! John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Sun Apr 13 09:30:49 2008 Message-Id: <29043780.1208093444929.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: ref Bulbous Genus 'BRODIAEA' in Alliaceae Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 08:30:44 -0500 (GMT-05:00) > >Blue Dicks, which we now call Dichelostemma capitatum but which in the past >has been called Brodiaea capitata and B. pulchella, is in bloom now in my >protected cold frame (which might as well be the open ground this year - it >has not been closed in months). This is a favorite. > Hi Jim: D. capitatum has been hardy here out in the garden. In the GH, it bloomed for well over three months (and set some seed), starting in mid November. I put a few in a pot to bring to the sale table at the local NARGS meeting in Raleigh this coming weekend. Tom Stuart, a friend from up north, is speaking about rockery ferns, so I'm making the trek. Brodiaea stellaris is now in bloom, a favorite. In my experience, Brodiaea require no special treatment. Well drained mix (Bio-comp with extra perlite or Pro-mix with extra perlite or sand), dry from late spring till mid September in the frost free GH with a piece of twiggy "pea brush" stuck in the pot for support. Best, Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 7b-8 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Apr 13 12:23:25 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080413102050.01717950@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: ref Bulbous Genus 'BRODIAEA' in Alliaceae Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 10:28:59 -0700 Dichelostemma capitatum is of garden interest as the earliest of the Brodiaea alliance to flower (in the open, anyway), and also for its notably strong violet color, which is enhanced by the deep purple stems. Its preferred habitat is meadow, very moist in spring and dry in summer; the soil is generally rocky clay. It multiplies rapidly by both offsets and seed. Another good, hardy garden plant in this group is Triteleia hyacinthina, a tall plant with white to pale blue florets in a dense spherical umbel. It is regarded as invasive (by seed) in some Pacific Northwest gardens, but has presented no problem in mine. I grow all the members of the four genera making up the Brodiaea alliance (the one not mentioned yet is Bloomeria, with two species in California), but the best ones for the garden are the big, showy ones that can support themselves unaided (unlike the widely grown Triteleia laxa). Brodiaea elegans has large flowers of brilliant violet. Triteleia peduncularis, well situated (i.e., planted quite deep in well-drained soil), can produce an umbel more than 12 in/30 cm across, as remarkable in its way as the most unusual Allium species. Triteleia ixioides is available commercially as the many-flowered pale yellow clone 'Starlight', but I prefer the Robinetts' darker yellow selection 'High Sierra', which comes true from seed. I try to send seeds of many Themidaceae to the NARGS exchange each year, though they're tedious to clean. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun Apr 13 16:54:13 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: _Plant_ by Janet Marinelli - DK Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 14:34:42 -0500 Dear Friends, I have an alternate view of this book. I reviewed a number of Animal Encyclopedias for a national science organization last year and was asked to suggest and compare similar comprehensive plant encyclopedias. As part of the first group I wholeheartedly endorsed 'Animal' produced by DK. It gave a comprehensive intelligent introduction to the animal world from simplest to complex organism; well organized and explained. I could only find 'Plant' as a comparable volume, but seeing that it was also a DK product my hopes were high. Here's my abbreviated review from last August: "This book is subtitled 'The ultimate visual reference to plants and flowers of the world'. If only. The book is beautifully constructed with ample color photographs, maps, charts and drawings. The actual focus of the book is on rare, endangered and invasive plants. You will find little or no information about basic common plants. The book has an excellent if biased introduction taking up nearly a quarter of the book on the world of plants and global habitats. Considering it is a 'product' of the Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew, I would have hoped for a more even representation of the view of the entire plant world and a less harsh tone regarding dangers of plant extinction, invasive plants and related fear topics. About two thirds of the book is an actual plant encyclopedia,but again the emphasis is on the rare, and not evenly representational. These chapters are oddly arranged from plant types (trees, bulbs, etc.) to taxonomic groups (grasses, ferns, orchids, etc) or environment (alpine plants) that just adds to the confusion. The index is essential to find info on any specific plant and do not expect an even representation. One should not judge a person or a book by its companions, but this book is clearly a companion to the DK publication "Animal' which fills its goals quite admirably. Considering the size and depth of the present book, it never reaches and barely aspires to comparison. As a pretty coffee table book it is fine, but I feel it fails to fit its audience. Pretty and annoying sum up the effort, leaving the need for a good reference on the plant world topic." On the other hand if the reader is seeking a highly visual and slightly shallow review of rare and endangered plants, there is lots of interest. And I'd even recommend it for $10. Some very rare plants are represented. Do not expect basic information about the plant world, basic botany or systematics. Still for $10 ....why not. Buyer Beware ? Buyer Enjoy ! Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From auchgourishbotgard@falsyde.sol.co.uk Sun Apr 13 17:36:43 2008 Message-Id: <00f401c89dae$7ac54c80$0501a8c0@homepc> From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" Subject: BRODIAEA Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 22:36:48 +0100 Thank you so much to so many of you. One wee inquiry and bang ! shed loads of useful information. I had not for example appreciated the connection botanically between the three genera and I seem to have been incredibly fortunate by default as amongst all the seed so kindly sent to me there were included species of Dichelostema & Tritelea all now trying to outdo each other jumping out of the pots at the same timescale too, which itself is interesting. Perhaps I sowed the seed too thickly. This seed 'breakout' from the same gentleman includes a staggering eight species of Pacific coast Erythronium, plus Triteleia bridgesii & Trileleia laxa, plus Dichelostema ida-maia & Dichelostema pluriforma ssp.? var. congestum. One final request for info, how long is it advisable before pricking out the seedlings into individual 'pots'. The standard size used here is what we call a 9 cm pot, i.e. square and 9 cms = very roughly 4 inches, tall, wide and deep.My inclination would be to prick them out say in August to allow time for a root system to develop ahead of winter to avoid frost heave, or is that too late / too soon? Lewisia nevadensis var. rosea was one other amongst the species seed donated and I am going to make a wild reckless abandoned stab at guessing the colour of those plants. I know the name Lewesia as these plants do have a "following" here in Europe but I believe they can be a bit of a challenge so I will need to make some effort there too. I hope I got all the above spellings correct but will check them on IPNI when it comes to doing the labels later. The info about James Brodie of Brodie, a former Clan High Chief, I must confess I did not have the faintest hint about in this connection although very familiar with who he was, but not as a botanist of any sort and must assume either a friend of some other tribe / name, or one of ours named it in his / our honour, therefore if the latter it would be on the basis of our honour as a clan. Interesting stuff indeed, either way all the more reason not to fail to grow them, the flower colours I would ask not to be told about, preferring to get a surprise in due course, however any clues as to time from germination 'till first flowering year would be appreciated please. I am hoping to send out the Allium wallichianum seeds requested privately from an earlier posting, this week probably, but weather issues here demanded other priorities first; however NO SNOW today, who says miracles don't happen. Best wishes, Iain Iain Brodie of Falsyde Auchgourish Botanic Garden From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Apr 13 21:41:20 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080413194501.017082b0@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: BRODIAEA Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:47:01 -0700 Iain asked, One final request for info, how long is it advisable before pricking out the seedlings into individual 'pots'. The standard size >used here is what we call a 9 cm pot, i.e. square and 9 cms = very roughly >4 inches, tall, wide and deep.My inclination would >be to prick them out say in August to allow time for a root system to >develop ahead of winter to avoid frost heave, or is that >too late / too soon? For most western American bulbs, it is best to leave them in the seed pots for two years and then to move the young bulbs into larger pots while they are dormant in July or August. Fertilize the seedlings at half strength and do not dry young seedlings out severely while they are dormant. Do not let the pots freeze. Jane McGary From msittner@mcn.org Sun Apr 13 23:12:03 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080413192153.034e0578@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: ref Bulbous Genus 'BRODIAEA' in Alliaceae Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 20:11:37 -0700 Many of the species we are talking about grow in such diverse places that they do not all behave the same. Nor do they all look the same. There is incredible variation in size and color of the different forms. So it is hard to come up with a hard and fast rule about each species. My experience isn't the same as Jane. The earliest ones for me to bloom are Triteleias. They bloom months before Dichelostemma capitatum. Triteleia ixioides, the one that the Robinett's called 'Tiger' starts blooming for me in January or February. Another one I got from the Robinetts, a tiny Triteleia hyacinthina that doesn't look at all like some of the other Triteleia hyacinthinas I grow they called 'Dwarf Blue' starts blooming some years in February. Triteleia clementina also is early to bloom, January or February. That doesn't mean there isn't a Dichelostemma capitatum that would bloom before these. I just don't have a form that blooms before April and I have a couple of different kinds. Triteleia laxa is also very variable, from tall to short, from dark purple to a very pale blue with pink tones. The local one that grows where I live is a nice rich dark purple and very short. It needs no support at all. Once I discovered this variation I started ordering seeds of the same thing from Ron Ratko and have found in cultivation the variation continues with seed grown plants from different locations. I wonder if some of those who got some of the old Robinett seed that Dell distributed have grown any of it to flowering and are discovering some exciting plants. Mary Sue From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Mon Apr 14 02:44:25 2008 Message-Id: <4802FD35.8000500@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: ref Bulbous Genus 'BRODIAEA' in Alliaceae Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:44:05 -0700 FYI, here are the groupings/relationships in Themidaceae that were found using several different DNA sequences. It turns out that they are not even closely related to Alliaceae, but rather are a sister family to Hyacinthaceae. I tried to show the groupings and levels using '|' and '-' and indentation. I hope it makes sense. (It looks best when viewed with a fixed width font.) I got this from "A Phylogenetic Evaluation of a Biosystematic Framework: _Brodiaea_ and Related Petaloid Monocots (Themidaceae)" by J. Chris Pires and Kenneth J. Sytsma in American Journal of Botany 89(8): 1342-1359, 2002. They found four major clades or high-level groupings: The Brodiaea-Dichelostemma-Triteleiopsis clade The Milla complex clade (sometimes called the Mexican Themidaceae) The Triteleia-Bloomeria-Muilla clevelandii clade The Androstephium-Muilla clade The first two clades are related to each other more than they are to the second two clades, and the second two clades are more related to each other than they are to the first two clades. Below you can see that there are two Brodiaeas and one Dichelostemma that are not as closely related to the other Brodiaeas and Dichelostemmas as all those are to each other. Also the Triteleias aren't very closely related to the Brodiaeas or Dichelostemmas. All the Milla complex are more closely related to them than the Triteleias are. It turns out that the Triteleias are most closely related to the Bloomerias and Muilla clevelandii, and that those three are more closely related to the remaining Muillas and Androstephiums than to either the Milla/Mexican complex or the Brodiaeas or Dichelostemmas. Very interesting. Of course this may get more refined far into the future as more and more DNA material is sequenced and compared. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a THEMIDACEAE ============================ |---------------------- ||------------------ |||-------------- ||||--------- |||||Brodiaea appendiculata ||||| B. stellaris ||||| B. minor ||||| B. terrestris ssp terrestris |||||B. jolonensis ||||| B. elegans ssp elegans ||||| B. cornaria ssp rosea ||||| |||||Dichelostemma volubile ||||| D. ida-maia ||||| D. multiflorum ||||| D. congestum ||||--------- |||| ||||Brodiaea orcutti ||||B. filifolia |||-------------- ||| |||Dichelostemma capitatum ssp capitatum ||------------------ | |Triteleiopsis palmerii |---------------------- |---------------------- |Dandya thadhowardii | Jaimehintonia gypsophila | Milla magnifica | Petronymphe decora |Milla biflora | Bessera tuitensis | B. elegans |---------------------- ============================ ============================ |---------------------- ||--------- ||Muilla clevelandii || Bloomeria humilis || B. crocea var crocea || Triteleia bridgesii || T. laxa || T. peduncularis || T. lemmoniae || T. montana || T. ixioides ssp scabra || T. hyacinthina || T. grandiflora var grandiflora || T. crocea ssp crocea || T. hendersonii var leachiae || T. hendersonii var hendersonii ||--------- | | ||--------- ||Androstephium coeruleum ||A. breviflorum ||Muilla maritima || M. transmontana || M. coronata ||--------- |---------------------- ============================ From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Mon Apr 14 12:43:24 2008 Message-Id: <4803898E.8020004@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Androstephium Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:42:54 -0700 Speaking of Themidaceae, does anyone know where one can find seeds or bulbs of either Androstephium coeruleum or A. breviflorum offered? I hunted around for a while, but while I found quite a number of different state wildflower organization and other native flora websites that listed them and/or had photos of one or the other, I never found any place that offered them. A couple of sources didn't think they were worth cultivating, but the photos looked nice to me. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a From totototo@telus.net Mon Apr 14 12:57:53 2008 Message-Id: <20080414165712.24X7U20VGW@priv-edtnaa03.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Is Chionodoxa albescens true to name? Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:59:09 -0700 In preparing the summary of Chionodoxa nomenclature that I posted on April 8, I noticed that descriptions of Chionodoxa albescens didn't tally with the plant I have under that name. The plants I have came from two different sources, but are visually identical. The flowers are solitary, pure white, and open out quite widely as do other chionodoxa species. One group was purchased as bagged bulbs from a local garden center (presumably from a Dutch source) in fall 2006. The other group came to me about 20 years ago from a gardener who was selling off her plants, and likely was originally bought from Ed Lohbrunner's Lakeside Gardens nursery, now defunct. The descriptions of Chionodoxa albescens differ from these plants in regard to shape of flower and flower color, as follows: 1. Shape of flower ================== European Garden Flora, Vol. I, p. 215: (nothing said) The Bulb Book (Rix and Phillips), p. 43: (depicts flower not opened widely) The Smaller Bulbs (Mathew), p. 25: "not opening out widely in my experience but remaining shuttlecock-shaped" Bulbs; the Bulbous Plants of Europe and their Allies (Grey-Wilson & Mathew), p. 101: "funnel shaped with the tepals not widely spreading" 2. Color ======== European Garden Flora, Vol. I, p. 215: "pale pinkish or lavender" The Bulb Book (Rix and Phillips), p. 43: "white, pinkish, or pale blue" The Smaller Bulbs (Mathew), p. 25: "pale lavender flowers with a large white centre" Bulbs; the Bulbous Plants of Europe and their Allies (Grey-Wilson & Mathew), p. 101: "whitish flowers" I conclude that I have something other than C. albescens, possibly C. cretica which has widely opening flowers. Comments? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From leo@possi.org Mon Apr 14 17:25:59 2008 Message-Id: <12192.209.180.132.162.1208208353.squirrel@possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: ref Bulbous Genus 'BRODIAEA' in Alliaceae Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:25:53 -0700 (MST) Dichelostemma pulchellum (capitatum) is native here in the low deserts of Arizona. It doesn't bloom every year; in fact, it only blooms after plentiful winter rains. The spring 2005 bloom was the first in about 10 years. It bloomed again this year but not so plenifully as in 2005. There is a great amount of flower color variation in habitat, from white (rare) to deep purple (rare.) I think Mary Sue said on the coast they are found in meadows. Here in Arizona they aren't found in the flat areas. They can be found in the desert on rocky, thinly-soiled slopes. We get 60% of our rain in the summer; maybe plants on the flats wouldn't tolerate the summer rain. However, it is quite weedy in gardens here, and blooms each year. I haven't put it in my garden yet because people tell me about it coming up like grass absolutely everywhere. Maybe I should just accept it. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Mon Apr 14 17:55:06 2008 Message-Id: <275785.88511.qm@web34302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: Androstephium Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:55:04 -0700 (PDT) Hello, I cannot offer bulbs or seed of A.coeruleum because I never found them in my fieldwork in Kansas. I looked and looked over two springs, but the old localities are well grazed land where only grasses are left to live. I would love to get hold of either species also. A.coeruleum is reportedly sweetly fragrant. All the best, Aaron Floden Knoxville, TN --- Lee Poulsen wrote: > Speaking of Themidaceae, does anyone know where one > can find seeds or > bulbs of either Androstephium coeruleum or A. > breviflorum offered? > I never found > any place that offered them. A couple of sources > didn't think they were > worth cultivating, but the photos looked nice to me. > > --Lee Poulsen > Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From pollards@adelphia.net Mon Apr 14 19:38:16 2008 Message-Id: <2968261.1208216261851.JavaMail.root@web33> From: Shawn Pollard Subject: Androstephium Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:37:41 -0700 Lee, There's a company called something like Tejas Native Bulbs that offers Androstephium, or did several years ago, along with other neat, hard-to-find bulbs. I ordered from them once and was pleased by the quality of the plants. However, I haven't ordered anything since because their shipping charges have skyrocketed and it is EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE now to order from out of state (Texas). Shawn Pollard Yuma, TX ---- Lee Poulsen wrote: > Speaking of Themidaceae, does anyone know where one can find seeds or > bulbs of either Androstephium coeruleum or A. breviflorum offered? > From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Tue Apr 15 17:44:40 2008 Message-Id: <002301c89f40$a779cd80$89326f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: Boophane disticha Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:35:40 -0700 Returning from a trip I found my two ten year old Boophane disticha bulbs sending up flower buds. The bulbs are about grapefruit size, and I grow them each individually in very large pots to accommodate their huge roots. What joy!! I had heard up to 18 years from seed to bloom. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs From arnold@nj.rr.com Tue Apr 15 18:20:42 2008 Message-Id: <48052A16.90009@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Boophane disticha Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:20:06 -0400 Diana: I'm sure that was a nice welcome home surprise. It also gives me hope that one day mine will surprise me with a flower as well. Arnold From othonna@gmail.com Tue Apr 15 21:55:52 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260804151855m7d0f72b2ke6001cdc9d0cdd85@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Boophane disticha Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:55:51 -0700 I have seen flowering plants with considerably smaller bulbs, also seed-grown and maybe a little less than 10 years old. They are in the ground in sun in well-drained soil. On the other hand I have a seedling of the form from Port Elizabeth (+/- evergreen) and it has hardly put on weight in 10 years (in a small pot). I hope you get some seeds! Dylan Hannon On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 2:35 PM, Diana Chapman wrote: > Returning from a trip I found my two ten year old Boophane disticha bulbs > sending up flower buds. The bulbs are about grapefruit size, and I grow > them each individually in very large pots to accommodate their huge roots. > > What joy!! I had heard up to 18 years from seed to bloom. > > Diana > Telos Rare Bulbs > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From kjblack@pacbell.net Tue Apr 15 22:55:32 2008 Message-Id: <992856.74727.qm@web81107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: Boophane disticha Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:55:14 -0700 (PDT) Your posts made me run out to check my 5 summer-growing Boophane disticha. One is just beginning to send up a flower scape, as it has the previous two years, however, later in May. It is barely out of the bulb tip now. The others, about the same size, have yet to bloom but seem to be producing an earlier, more vigorous flush of leaves. All are about the size of a large orange or small grapefruit. I was hoping I'd get at least one more bloom this year to allow me to cross pollinate. I do, however, plan to use frozen pollen from last summer's bloom of a Winter-growing B.disticha. I performed the reverse cross (summer-growing B.disticha pollen on August bloom of winter-growing B.disticha) last year. This produced 120+ seeds, almost all germinated early last fall, and each quickly produced two leaves. These remained through the winter with no apparent additional growth until now, when I noticed several producing a 3rd leaf. I plan to continue watering to encourage growth through spring and summer, if possible. here's a link to some shots posted on Flickr. Hope this works: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2269270994/in/set-72157601294500593/ Ken San Diego Hannon wrote: I have seen flowering plants with considerably smaller bulbs, also seed-grown and maybe a little less than 10 years old. They are in the ground in sun in well-drained soil. On the other hand I have a seedling of the form from Port Elizabeth (+/- evergreen) and it has hardly put on weight in 10 years (in a small pot). I hope you get some seeds! Dylan Hannon On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 2:35 PM, Diana Chapman wrote: > Returning from a trip I found my two ten year old Boophane disticha bulbs > sending up flower buds. The bulbs are about grapefruit size, and I grow > them each individually in very large pots to accommodate their huge roots. > > What joy!! I had heard up to 18 years from seed to bloom. > > Diana > Telos Rare Bulbs > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From piabinha@yahoo.com Wed Apr 16 12:03:22 2008 Message-Id: <880245.69034.qm@web51908.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: OT: Araucaria talk (Mark BROWN) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:03:17 -0700 (PDT) --- pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 09:56:33 +0200 (CEST) > From: Mark BROWN > Subject: Re: [pbs] OT, Araucaria talk > > Do you have any more details of this species?I know > of the conifer ,Parasitaxis which grows on > Podophyllum species... hi mark, my memory could be a bit faulty. i just remembered seeing a pic of this tree growing in a lake in NC from a book by sherwin carlquist, many years ago. i'll have to dig up that book again. is there a website that lists all the flora of new caledonia? it might be listed there. i find NC an amazing botanical paradise, i'd love to visit one day. as many of you know, Gesneriaceae are one of my interests, and NC is one of the only places where Gesn. trees exist. very bizarre. ========= tsuh yang ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From piabinha@yahoo.com Wed Apr 16 12:06:35 2008 Message-Id: <976304.49718.qm@web51911.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: Amaryllidaceae in Kubitzki (Alberto Grossi) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:06:30 -0700 (PDT) > Hi All, > there is anyone that can provide the pages from the > book "Families and Genera of vascular Plants", 1998, > edited by Kubitzki, relating to Amaryllidaceae, > pages 83-110? Many many thanks. alberto, have you also tried abebooks? ========= tsuh yang ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From msittner@mcn.org Thu Apr 17 10:38:01 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080417064649.035c1588@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions - Dandya, Jaimehintonia, Fritillaria, Erythronium, Gladiolus, Narcissus, Iris, Prasophyllum Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 07:33:40 -0700 Hi, I've gotten a little behind on this and encourage people who add to the wiki to announce their own additions to the group, but here's a list of additions to the wiki since I last announced them April 4. I'm going to let Nhu announce his additions since he has been kind enough to do this in the past. Lee Poulsen added additional wiki pages for genera in the Themidaceae family. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Dandya http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Jaimehintonia Mary Gerritsen has added pictures of Fritillaria falcata, another picture of Calochortus amoenus, and added Iris munzii (photographed in habitat) http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NorthAmericanFritillarias http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesOne#amoenus http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/PacificCoastIrises#munzii Diane Whitehead added pictures of Erythronium citrinum and E. montanum and a picture of Galanthus elwesii seeds http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Erythronium http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Galanthus Close-up picture of Gladiolus bullatus from Alan Horstmann http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusOne#bullatus Another picture of Gladiolus watsonius from Alan Horstmann http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusNine#watsonius Additional pictures of Gladiolus tristis and G. trichonemifolius from Alan Horstmann http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthernAfricanGladiolusEight Jay Yourch has continued to add more pictures of Narcissus blooming in his garden. Add 'Fragrant Rose' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionTwo#Fragrant Add 'Lemon Drops' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionFive#Lemon Add 'Silver Smiles' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionSeven#Silver Add 'Segovia' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MiniatureNarcissus#Segovia Add group picture of 'Aspasia' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionEight#Aspasia Add 'Verona' http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NarcissusDivisionThree#Verona And finally I added pictures of more tuberous Australian orchids we saw on our visit last September. These are called leek orchids because of the leek like leaves and the flowers are very small. I hope I have them identified correctly. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Prasophyllum From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Apr 17 17:58:46 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Some spring thoughts Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:58:51 -0500 Dear friends, I guess spring must be here. No frost for a week and none in the next week's forecast. We had over 70 F for a day and a spring 'feeling' rain today. The garden is looking spring even if the season is late - maybe 10 days behind, but some things are blooming 'out of sequence' and not typical at all. The earliest daffodils are gone and mid season to late have begun. I enjoy old favorites as well as new arrivals. I have 'Day Dream' and 'Precious' from the late Dave Karnstedt. I am not a fan of split cup daffodils although I have a few around. Dave's "Precious is different. I suppose it is clearly split cup, but each of the splits is rounded and petal-like in a peach color swirled with while against a white corona. Very nice. 'Sparkling Star' is a look alike, but smaller for 'Ceylon' with the bright orange cup against a bright yellow corona. Striking and fun on opposites sides of a large flower bed. Also from Dave the diminutive 'Xit' is fun to re- find. Very tiny and a perfect pale daffodil. There are a few favorites like 'Professor Einstein' and my all time favorite 'Raspberry Rose' from the late Sid Dubose. This is a very classy medium size flower with a richly colored rose cup on a pure white corona. A special plant each spring. Among Iris, the reticulatas are done, but junos have started. My usually early I. aucheri did not bloom at all, but it was severely damaged in last year's late freezes. A new clone with darker blue flowers has just finished. I willmottiana has just started and followed closely by I. greaberiana (White Fall). Others are still in bud. A clump of I magnifica near the house is in advance of this species elsewhere. It is a mixed clump with forms from typical pale lilac to Alba with others having various lilac marks mostly on the style arms, but clearly visible from above. This group of 8 or 9 blooming size bulbs has a hosts of self sown seedlings around , none quite ready to bloom this year. Finger crossed that I'll get some bloom on I cycloglossa, one of the most beautiful Junos, but difficult for me here. Various arillate and aril-bred iris are just starting on buds visible at the base of the stem. These range from pure species to onco-bred, onco regelia and other combinations. I have some new (to me) old Hoog hybrids 'Dardanus' and 'Antiope' to anticipate. And a pure I korolkowii. Among Fritillaria, 3 large clumps of over 20 stems each of I persica are once again blooming very poorly. I am guessing they are too crowded and need dividing as they bloomed vigorously when just a few bulbs. We certainly have good conditions here where summer baking in a no-brainer. Last fall I planted two of the new F. persica 'Ivory Bells' hoping the pictures I'd seen were not too photoshopped. Well the flowers are green, no denying. Not close to cream or ivory, but perhaps they'll fade as they age. I was pleased that each large bulb produced two full size flowering stems. A round of smaller European species are up and forming buds. I'd have to check labels, but I know there's F. acmopetala and 2 others in a similar size range. My single remaining Ungernia sp is up and looks recovered from the freeze last spring. Fingers are crossed that this can get enough growing in to finally bloom this fall. The stars of the garden right now, mostly due to their abundance are the various anemones - A. blanda in a variety of blue shades from near white to violet and a few with a touch of pink, "White Splendor ' with large white flowers and a few named forms. A. nemorosa and ranunculoides. The latter in single , double and a pale (hybrid? ) form, the former in many shades and forms, but hard to top the old 'Robinsoniana'. Lilies are coming up too and remain a questions mark for me. Last spring some were up a foot or more and were frozen to mush. Since no growth returned all season, I could only wonder (hope) that they would return. Now will they also bloom ? Lots of odds and ends- Trillium pusillum ozarkanum - with tiny white flowers aging to pink, other species with fat buds T. recurvatum the most numerous, but T. luteum the next to open. Corydalis solida and 'Eco Special Pink' (from the BX) just finishing. Six or seven Arum species refreshing old winter foliage or rising anew. Sheets of Polygonatum o. 'Variegatum' poking their pink 'snouts' up. Tulips- species only, but none in bloom except T. turkestanica: most other pushing buds out of the foliage. Not bulbous, but Hellebores are stealing some vistas. We have around 250 full size plants in bloom in a full range of colors, size and species. A real treat at a time when daffodil yellow seems to predominate otherwise. We are in betwen on Leucojum. The L. aestivum carpaticum are done and going to seed. The L. vernum just sending up buds. Lots of seedlings that need thinning or sharing. We have both typical and 'Gravetye Giant' with no obvious difference between them. So today's rain will bring more 'May flowers'. Optimistically yours. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From xerantheum@gmail.com Fri Apr 18 03:45:06 2008 Message-Id: From: "Nhu Nguyen" Subject: newest Wiki additions Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 00:45:05 -0700 Hi everyone, I have just added a few new species and more photos of existing species to the Wiki. My recent trip to Mt. Diablo, CA was a success and I have added photos of a field of *Triteleia laxa* and the endemic *Calochortus pulchellus*. Apart from the usual photos of flowers and habitat, this time I added pictures of seeds/seedlings/roots/bulbs along with cultivation information based on my experience. It is my hope that the addition of these non-traditional photos will make the profile of each species more comprehensive. *New species additions:* *Crinum variabile*: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumSpeciesFour#variabile *Gethyllis grandiflora*: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Gethyllis *Ledebouria paufiflora*: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Ledebouria *New flower photo additions:* *Allium bolanderi*: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/AmericanAlliums#bolanderi * Muilla maritima*: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Muilla *Triteleia laxa*: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TriteleiaSpeciesThree#laxa * Calochortus pulchellus*: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesFive#pulchellus *Romulea clusiana*: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/EuropeanAndMediterraneanRomuleas#clusiana *Scilla hyacinthoides*: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Scilla *Delphinium nudicaule*: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/DelphiniumSpeciesOne#nudicaule *Freesia viridis*: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Freesia *Ledebouria socialis*: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Ledebouria *New cultivation photo additions:* *Albuca spiralis*: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/DelphiniumSpeciesOne#spiralis *Bomarea sp*.: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Bomarea *Brunsvigia radulosa*: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Brunsvigia#radulosa *Ferraria crispa*: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Ferraria *Haemanthus carneus*: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HaemanthusSpeciesOne#carneus Enjoy! Nhu From roth@ukzn.ac.za Fri Apr 18 09:18:18 2008 Message-Id: <4808BB2C.3298.0024.0@ukzn.ac.za> From: "Rogan Roth" Subject: Massonia - unknown species Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:17:44 +0200 Massonia specialists, Would you be so kind as to have a look at the Mystery Bulb page and see if you can identify the species illustrated there: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MysteryBulbs . Your efforts will be much appreciated. Regards Rogan Roth. Please find our Email Disclaimer here: http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer/ From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Apr 18 14:55:41 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Triteleia laxa companion? Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:55:24 -0700 One picture on the wiki of Triteleia laxa taken in Vina, California (Tehama County) in April 2006 where butterflies were pollinating the flowers has an orange and red flower that I have never seen before. What is it? http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TriteleiaSpeciesThree#laxa Diane Whitehead From Theladygardens@aol.com Fri Apr 18 15:24:17 2008 Message-Id: From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: Triteleia laxa companion? Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:24:11 EDT I hope they answer to the list as I want to know also, it's beautiful Carolyn **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) From othonna@gmail.com Fri Apr 18 15:37:43 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260804181237n2ea2e064u77aea16606f58310@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Massonia - unknown species Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 12:37:38 -0700 Rogan, I think this would have to be M. jasminiflora by its appearance and geography. Dylan Hannon On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 6:17 AM, Rogan Roth wrote: > Massonia specialists, > > Would you be so kind as to have a look at the Mystery Bulb page and see if > you can identify the species illustrated there: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MysteryBulbs . Your > efforts will be much appreciated. > > Regards > Rogan Roth. > > Please find our Email Disclaimer here: http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer/ > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Fri Apr 18 15:52:49 2008 Message-Id: <000901c8a18d$8e7b3900$89326f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: Triteleia laxa companion? Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 12:51:12 -0700 It looks like Amsinckia menziesii. The flowers aren't quite as big as they appear in the photograph, but are still very attractive. The stem curls over at the top, with the individual flowers arranged on one side, giving it the name of Fiddleneck. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs > One picture on the wiki of Triteleia laxa taken in Vina, California > (Tehama County) in April 2006 where butterflies were pollinating the > flowers has an orange and red flower that I have never seen before. > What is it? > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TriteleiaSpeciesThree#laxa > > > Diane Whitehead > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From othonna@gmail.com Fri Apr 18 16:54:46 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260804181354j3ca19275s6468b11d2c99dfb5@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Triteleia laxa companion? Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:54:45 -0700 Diane, It is a species of Amsinckia or fiddleneck, a smallish genus of annuals in the borage family that is well represented in the native California flora. Dylan Hannon On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Diane Whitehead wrote: > One picture on the wiki of Triteleia laxa taken in Vina, California > (Tehama County) in April 2006 where butterflies were pollinating the > flowers has an orange and red flower that I have never seen before. > What is it? > > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TriteleiaSpeciesThree#laxa > > > Diane Whitehead > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Apr 18 17:50:51 2008 Message-Id: <0EBCFF0E-B51B-4473-B245-401BF7A2D5C3@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Triteleia laxa companion? Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:50:26 -0700 How surprising! I have seen Amsinckias, but I did not recognize that flower as one, I guess because the 'curl' to the stem doesn't show. I've now searched calphotos, which has pictures of A.menziesii intermedia which shows red marks like the one in the Triteleia photo. I checked the map showing all the California counties it has been collected from http://ucjeps.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/get_smasch_county.pl?taxon_id=77017 and it is amazingly widespread. Every country except Plumas and Alpine have contributed pressed specimens to herbaria, and that may not mean that it doesn't grow in them as well. I found a second one also with red marks: eastwoodiae, but at a quick glance, it is found in only about half of California's counties. Diane >> From leo@possi.org Fri Apr 18 20:44:28 2008 Message-Id: <2045.75.172.176.187.1208565866.squirrel@possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Boophane disticha Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:44:26 -0700 (MST) Diana Chapman wrote > Returning from a trip I found my two ten year old Boophane disticha bulbs > sending up flower buds. The bulbs are about grapefruit size, and I grow > them each individually in very large pots to accommodate their huge roots. Congratulations! How large is a very large pot? Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From africanbulbs@haznet.co.za Sat Apr 19 14:09:47 2008 Message-Id: <002f01c8a248$90180f20$043cd0c4@mcmasterdae8d5> From: "Rhoda and Cameron McMaster" Subject: Mystery Massonia Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 20:09:48 +0200 In commenting on the Mystery Massonia offered by Rogan Roth for comment I would suggest that it is a species that has yet to be described. I have observed it for some years in gravel beds on rock slabs in the high Drakensberg and this year was lucky to see it in full flower in January on the ridge above Tiffindell Ski Resort at an altitude of 3000m. The fact that it flowers in mid-summer (the only Massonia to do so) places it apart from Massonia jasminiflora which flowers in mid winter in all its known habitats and populations, all of which are at lower altitudes in the Eastern Cape. In Elsa Pooleys field guide " Mountain Flowers" this plant is listed as Massonia echinata on page 56, but echinata occurs in much more arid areas primarily in the winter rainfall zone, so I dont think this identity is correct either. I will be interested to hear further opinions. Cameron McMaster African Bulbs PO Box 26, Napier 7270 Tel/Fax: 028 423 3651 Mobile: 082 774 2075 Email: africanbulbs@haznet.co.za Website: www.africanbulbs.com From othonna@gmail.com Sat Apr 19 16:19:34 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260804191318o65d7fb9csed3792fd8b6ae61f@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Mystery Massonia Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 13:18:51 -0700 Then would this be the same entity that grows at high elevation in Lesotho? I'm glad you pointed out the flowering season difference, Cameron. How about morphological differences? Personally I think Massonia needs more work, in sprite of recent attempts to bring order to this fascinating genus. This is especially true regarding plants that end up getting labeled M. echinata. I believe the Mueller-Doblies have made progress in sorting out some of the species, notably M. hirsuta of the Eastern Cape area and M. echinata. According to their analysis, M. echinata is restricted to the Nieuwoudtville area and I have several batches from Silverhill from there that seem to match very well their interpretation of it. M. hirsuta is distinctive in having a longer season in leaf, plain green smooth or hirsute leaves and white flowers with a strong scent like laundry freshener perfume (aside from technical characters). This photo http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Massonia/Massonia_flower.jpg depicts a plant that I have grown as "M. cf. echinata" from Rust-en-Vrede Nursery but as can be readily seen from the photo it is very different from the other PBS photos of M. echinata. Does it have a proper name? I don't have mature bulbs currently to key it out in M-D but would like to hear any opinions about it. Dylan Hannon On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 11:09 AM, Rhoda and Cameron McMaster < africanbulbs@haznet.co.za> wrote: > In commenting on the Mystery Massonia offered by Rogan Roth for comment > I would suggest that it is a species that has yet to be described. I have > observed it for some years in gravel beds on rock slabs in the high > Drakensberg and this year was lucky to see it in full flower in January on > the ridge above Tiffindell Ski Resort at an altitude of 3000m. The fact > that it flowers in mid-summer (the only Massonia to do so) places it apart > from Massonia jasminiflora which flowers in mid winter in all its known > habitats and populations, all of which are at lower altitudes in the > Eastern Cape. In Elsa Pooleys field guide " Mountain Flowers" this plant is > listed as Massonia echinata on page 56, but echinata occurs in much more > arid areas primarily in the winter rainfall zone, so I dont think this > identity is correct either. I will be interested to hear further opinions. > > Cameron McMaster > African Bulbs > PO Box 26, Napier 7270 > Tel/Fax: 028 423 3651 > Mobile: 082 774 2075 > Email: africanbulbs@haznet.co.za > Website: www.africanbulbs.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From auchgourishbotgard@falsyde.sol.co.uk Sat Apr 19 17:04:51 2008 Message-Id: <014a01c8a261$07895fb0$0501a8c0@homepc> From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" Subject: LILY POLLINATION Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 22:04:59 +0100 Could anyone tell me if they are aware of any non insect pollinators amongst Liliaceous genera and species? For example do any of the New World Humming birds have any observations of their feeding behavour been recorded as visiting e.g. Lilium species? Sorry to be the thinker of off the wall questions, however the means by which, and by whom, Lilies are pollenated is something I am investigating for my book on Lilies and their Allies, especially in relation to different flower types. Obviously the prime pollinators of Lilies must be insects in the main. In the Old World there are no Hummingbirds, nor any other avian analogues but while readily admitting I haven't a clue about the feeding activities of hummingbirds it occured to me that perhaps there might possibly be one or more specialist Hummingbird species which did in part feed from Lilies. Any input would be enormously appreciated please. Iain From msittner@mcn.org Sat Apr 19 17:21:14 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080419135414.03263c60@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Massonia Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 14:08:31 -0700 The Massonia Dylan asked about is one that I grew from seed from Bill Dijk that was labeled Massonia pustulata. My attempt to key it out from my keys made me think it was more likely to be M. echinata since it has such short filaments. The various descriptions for M. echinata give a lot of leeway in variation: smooth, hairy or pustulate-hairy, sometimes spotted leaves for example. Filaments in the Cape Encyclopedia description for M. echinata are 4 to 10 mm long and for M. pustulata (10) 15-24 mm. long and that is how you are to tell them apart in the key. I could be wrong, but tried to hedge my bets in my wiki description and would be happy to rename it if others feel it is indicated. It's not all that easy to measure filaments in flowers like these and impossible to tell how long they are from a photograph. M. hirsuta is a species I know nothing about. Perhaps Dylan can add pictures or information about it to the wiki? Since my plants were grown from seed there is always the possibility that they are hybrids. Mary Sue From DavBouch5@aol.com Sat Apr 19 17:47:07 2008 Message-Id: From: DavBouch5@aol.com Subject: LILY POLLINATION Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 17:46:55 EDT Iain I have no direct experience (no hummingbirds in Hawaii, either), but Lilium grayi is frequently mentioned as being attractive to hummingbirds. David Hawaii ************** Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) From othonna@gmail.com Sat Apr 19 19:40:11 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260804191640s69d53da8t3bc5188c81b7662f@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Massonia Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 16:40:09 -0700 M. pustulata as depicted in the PBS photos would seem to agree well with everything I have ever seen going under this name. Besides appearance and "technical features", the fragrance is highly distinct (and very pleasant). The problem is that M. echinata has been the "kitchen sink" of the genus and tends to pull in any plant that is troublesome to identify. Mueller-Doblies (1997) is cited in the Manning, Goldblatt and Snijman Cape Bulb book and is useful but I don't know how to help people access it. That is one of the unfortunate facts of much of the botanical literature-- it is inaccessible to the amateur sleuth. M. hirsuta is a species I have in my catalogue (othonna gmail.com) and it's flowers are similar to those in the PBS photos of M. jasminiflora, but the leaves are broad and flat. Since it grows in areas of mostly winter rain but also summer rain it is in leaf longer and I think is a more tolerant subject, though massonias are generally easy to grow of course. Material I grow that seems to agree with M-D's "revived" concept of M. hirsuta hails from Kirkwood, Fish River Valley and as far east as Port Elizabeth. Yes, I plan to contribute some photos and text at some point. I will have to re-photograph in digital or scan since many are slides. No habitat shots of Massonia but most have localities, which can be so important in identification as you know. Dylan On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 2:08 PM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > The Massonia Dylan asked about is one that I grew from seed from Bill Dijk > that was labeled Massonia pustulata. My attempt to key it out from my keys > made me think it was more likely to be M. echinata since it has such short > filaments. The various descriptions for M. echinata give a lot of leeway > in > variation: smooth, hairy or pustulate-hairy, sometimes spotted leaves for > example. Filaments in the Cape Encyclopedia description for M. echinata > are > 4 to 10 mm long and for M. pustulata (10) 15-24 mm. long and that is how > you are to tell them apart in the key. I could be wrong, but tried to > hedge > my bets in my wiki description and would be happy to rename it if others > feel it is indicated. It's not all that easy to measure filaments in > flowers like these and impossible to tell how long they are from a > photograph. M. hirsuta is a species I know nothing about. Perhaps Dylan > can > add pictures or information about it to the wiki? Since my plants were > grown from seed there is always the possibility that they are hybrids. > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Sat Apr 19 20:47:59 2008 Message-Id: <21753156.1208652478556.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: LILY POLLINATION Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 19:47:58 -0500 (GMT-05:00) > For example do any of the New World Humming birds have any observations of their feeding behavour been recorded as visiting e.g. Lilium species? > Verne Grant lists two. See: http://libraryportals.com/PCDL/research/262 M From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Sun Apr 20 03:43:34 2008 Message-Id: <003101c8a2ba$3beb6b00$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Mystery Massonia Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 08:43:28 +0100 Cameron McMaster reports that he has found the mystery smooth-leaved, purplish-flowered, summer-flowering Massonia on the ridge above Tiffindell Ski Resort. In that case there must be two high altitude massonias up there as there is an extensive population of an echinate-leaved, white-flowered one growing in gravel pockets on the way up to the summit of Ben MacDhui. It was not in flower when I first saw it in January 2002, though fat inflorescences were developing between the leaves, and it was over in March 2002. Specimens flowered white in cultivation, however. Unfortunately I have no means of scanning my slides to post an image. Have you seen this species up there, Cameron? John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Sun Apr 20 13:21:30 2008 Message-Id: <000701c8a30a$bee3a6d0$62326f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: LILY POLLINATION Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 10:19:51 -0700 Dear Iain: Hummingbirds are not that particular about what they feed on, as long as there is nectar present. In my region, hummingbirds are abundant, as are various lilies: L. kellogii, L. maritimum, L. occidentale, L. rubescens; L. pardalinum, L. bolanderi, L. columbianum, L. vollmeri and L. washingtonianum (not many of these). I have seen hummingbird activity on L. kelloggii and L. columbianum, but I'd be amazed if they didn't feed on all of them. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" To: Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 2:04 PM Subject: [pbs] LILY POLLINATION > Could anyone tell me if they are aware of any non insect pollinators > amongst Liliaceous genera and species? For example do any of the New World > Humming birds have any observations of their feeding behavour been > recorded as visiting e.g. Lilium species? > > Sorry to be the thinker of off the wall questions, however the means by > which, and by whom, Lilies are pollenated is something I am investigating > for my book on Lilies and their Allies, especially in relation to > different flower types. Obviously the prime pollinators of Lilies must be > insects in the main. In the Old World there are no Hummingbirds, nor any > other avian analogues but while readily admitting I haven't a clue about > the feeding activities of hummingbirds it occured to me that perhaps there > might possibly be one or more specialist Hummingbird species which did in > part feed from Lilies. Any input would be enormously appreciated please. > > Iain > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Sun Apr 20 13:22:19 2008 Message-Id: <000d01c8a30a$dd368f80$62326f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: Boophane disticha Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 10:20:43 -0700 Hi Leo: The pots are 16" in diameter, and 13" deep, one bulb to a pot. Diana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leo A. Martin" To: Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Boophane disticha > Diana Chapman wrote > >> Returning from a trip I found my two ten year old Boophane disticha bulbs >> sending up flower buds. The bulbs are about grapefruit size, and I grow >> them each individually in very large pots to accommodate their huge >> roots. > > Congratulations! How large is a very large pot? > > Leo Martin > Phoenix Arizona USA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From africanbulbs@haznet.co.za Sun Apr 20 14:29:03 2008 Message-Id: <003e01c8a314$6cbd0720$813fd0c4@mcmasterdae8d5> From: "Rhoda and Cameron McMaster" Subject: Mystery Massonia Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 20:24:43 +0200 In response to the last batch of corespondence on the Mystery Massonia John Grimshaw and I have seen the same plant at the same time of the year above Tiffendell near Ben MacDui. I was just fortunate to see it in flower, and have forwarded pictures for posting. Massonia hirsutus is no longer recognised as a species. It is not listed in the latest checklist of Plants of Southern Africa (2003) edited by G Germishuizen and Meyer. Only six Massonia species are listed in this checklist: M. depressa, M echinata, M. jasminiflora, M. pustulata, M pygmaea (two sub-species) and M. sessiliflora I believe all these are winter growing species. Cameron McMaster African Bulbs PO Box 26, Napier 7270 Tel/Fax: 028 423 3651 Mobile: 082 774 2075 Email: africanbulbs@haznet.co.za Website: www.africanbulbs.com From othonna@gmail.com Sun Apr 20 15:38:14 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260804201238ndcf6f9x953f7b8c62ed3d28@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Mystery Massonia Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 12:38:01 -0700 Unless her views have changed in recent years, Alison van der Merwe, the most recent (SA) researcher to have a close look at Massonia, regards M. hirsuta as a distinct species (she includes M. sessiliflora as a synonym of it as I recall). Some relevant comments by her can be found here: http://www.safricanbulbs.org.za/articles/pdf/Bulletin2002.PDF If one accepts Mueller-Doblies' narrow morphological concept of M. echinata and as being localized around Vanrhynsdorp it becomes impossible, to my mind, to reconcile it as conspecific with material from further east, i.e., M. hirsuta. I have not had the opportunity to see these plants in the wild but upon growing several dozen wild origin accessions in this genus, and being desirous of proper names for them, it became apparent that the circumscription of M. echinata was the real bugaboo in the genus. There is a very nice thread of photos from the Wisley Alpine Log (8 Nov 2007) (just search under "Massonia/hirsuta") and it depicts most of the massonias known in cultivation. The photo of M. hirsuta is of juvenile plants, not characteristic of mature plants of this species as I know it, but there is a very good illustration of M. echinata that accords well with plants I have grown from Vanrhynsdorp. Dylan Hannon On 4/20/08, Rhoda and Cameron McMaster wrote: > > In response to the last batch of corespondence on the Mystery Massonia > > John Grimshaw and I have seen the same plant at the same time of the year > above Tiffendell near Ben MacDui. I was just fortunate to see it in flower, > and have forwarded pictures for posting. > > Massonia hirsutus is no longer recognised as a species. It is not listed > in the latest checklist of Plants of Southern Africa (2003) edited by G > Germishuizen and Meyer. Only six Massonia species are listed in this > checklist: > > M. depressa, M echinata, M. jasminiflora, M. pustulata, M pygmaea (two > sub-species) and M. sessiliflora > > I believe all these are winter growing species. > > Cameron McMaster > African Bulbs > PO Box 26, Napier 7270 > Tel/Fax: 028 423 3651 > Mobile: 082 774 2075 > Email: africanbulbs@haznet.co.za > Website: www.africanbulbs.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From msittner@mcn.org Sun Apr 20 16:18:28 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080420131508.03572d58@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Mystery Massonia Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:17:59 -0700 I've added the pictures Cameron sent me to the wiki of the white flowered plants that he and John Grimshaw have been discussing: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Massonia Cameron labeled them Massonia echinata. So does that mean that you don't think this is a new species even though it is summer blooming? Is here any consensus about the pink one from Rogan. Shall we call it sp. nova and move it do the Massonia wiki page? Mary Sue From telosrarebulbs@suddenlink.net Sun Apr 20 20:20:31 2008 Message-Id: <000001c8a345$481c8a40$62326f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Telos Rare Bulbs" Subject: Telos has a blog Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:18:04 -0700 Dear All: Telos now has a blog, sharing the joys and sorrows of a running a small nursery, plus other trivia. Just started today, there's not a lot yet, but stayed tuned! Go to: www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com Diana Telos Rare Bulbs www.telosrarebulbs.com From maxwithers@gmail.com Mon Apr 21 14:05:29 2008 Message-Id: <480CD761.4070907@gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: LILY POLLINATION Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:05:21 -0700 Although I've never seen it, the morphology of L. bolanderi strongly suggests a hummingbird pollinator. As Diana says, there is no accounting for hummingbird taste. My resident Anna's hummingbird (Calypte anna) appears to be annoyed that he has to fly around a blooming Leucospermum to get to the lemon tree. Best, Max Oakland CA > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 22:04:59 +0100 > From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" > Subject: [pbs] LILY POLLINATION > To: > Message-ID: <014a01c8a261$07895fb0$0501a8c0@homepc> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Could anyone tell me if they are aware of any non insect pollinators amongst Liliaceous genera and species? For example do any of the New World Humming birds have any observations of their feeding behavour been recorded as visiting e.g. Lilium species? > From paige@hillkeep.ca Mon Apr 21 17:48:19 2008 Message-Id: <028c01c8a3f9$671a7330$4101a8c0@m6u3j5> From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: Edgar Kline -- info, please Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:48:10 -0700 Can anyone tell me about the late Edgar Kline of Lake Grove, Oregon, USA? He was a respected grower of bulbs. I have seen both Asian lilies and Erythroniums of W North America mentioned. When was he going strong? Did he specialize? Did his nursery have a name? What became of his nursery -- and his stock? Do any of you have any of his stock? A correspondent has mentioned an Erythronium received from Edgar Kline in 1970. An online reference makes him a co-founder of Siskiyou Rare Plant Nursery, but surely that is Boyd Kline. Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Apr 21 18:21:12 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Edgar Kline -- info, please Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:20:56 -0700 He had lots of cyclamen - I especially loved the wonderful leaves of his C. graecum. I bought double bloodroot from him as well as erythroniums. When he sold, Russ Graham bought his plants and moved them to Salem. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Apr 21 19:09:07 2008 Message-Id: <60E6C999-80A3-4119-82ED-CBAEBB201231@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Edgar Kline -- info, please Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:08:50 -0700 I believe I bought from Edgar Kline when he was gradually retiring during the 1980s, as there was a younger person at the nursery that I think was going to take over. I'm not sure of the year, but it was after CITES was operating, because I remember Mr. Kline filled a form out for the cyclamen I bought, and apologized that he had to charge me for doing it, though he wouldn't get the money. I don't know when he began selling plants. There are letters to him and other nurseries in the archives at the University of Oregon from two landscape architects who worked from 1929 to 1970. Unfortunately the pdf report does not date the letter to Edgar L. Kline Nursery, so someone would need to look in Box 6, Folder 7. https://scholarsbank.uoregon.edu/dspace/bitstream/1794/290/2/Lord+&+Schryver+Architectural+RecordsREV.pdf Division of Special Collections and University Archives University of Oregon Libraries Title: Lord & Schryver Architectural Records, 1929-1970 The firm of Lord-Schryver, Landscape Architects, was established in Salem, Oregon in 1929. Working out of their home on Mission Street, Elizabeth Lord and Edith (Nina) Schryver designed gardens located throughout Oregon as well as in Washington. Their partnership lasted forty years, until they retired. Diane Whitehead > From hansennursery@coosnet.com Mon Apr 21 23:05:08 2008 Message-Id: <005601c8a425$a58cea40$d1f064d0@homed4aec9b2d8> From: "Robin Hansen" Subject: Edgar Kline -- info, please Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:04:53 -0700 Edgar Kline was still running the nursery when I was going to hort school. He sold the nursery to my good friend, Phil Parker. Phil ran it for a few years, but his family grew by four children and he now works for O'Loughlin Trade Shows in Portland putting on their Spring and Fall Plant Shows at the Portland Expo Center. Phil still has some stock from the nursery which was sold to developers shortly after Edgar's death. He was able to rescue quite a bit. Mr. Kline had a catalog for many years, (I think I have a copy of one), and no, he was not related to Boyd. He had a lot of bulbs and cyclamen and sold cyclamen seed, which is where I purchased my first seed that became the foundation plantings at my nursery. I have a copy of his obituary from the Oregonian; I know that he was well-known and received mention in various periodicals from time to time. If you're interested in more information, let me know privately (or publicly, if others are interested) and I will do my best. Robin Hansen Hansen Nursery robin@hansennursery.com From hansennursery@coosnet.com Mon Apr 21 23:24:32 2008 Message-Id: <006c01c8a428$5daac960$d1f064d0@homed4aec9b2d8> From: "Robin Hansen" Subject: Edgar Kline -- info, please Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:24:21 -0700 "I believe I bought from Edgar Kline when he was gradually retiring during the 1980s, as there was a younger person at the nursery that I think was going to take over" The younger person was Phil Parker. Mr. Kline died soon after. I'll see if I can find the obituary as it's interesting for plant fiends. Has anyone seen Deepwood, the estate in Salem Lord and Schryver designed? It's part of a large park and well worth a visit, and perhaps the best known example of their work. It has been restored by an active group of Friends. Robin Hansen Hansen Nursery From dells@voicenet.com Tue Apr 22 09:56:58 2008 Message-Id: <20080422135651.952CE4C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 170 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:56:37 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 170" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Alberto Castillo: 1. Fresh seed of Rhodophiala granatiflora From Judy Glattstein: 2. Blooming size bulbs of Habranthus robustus From PBS: SEED: 3. Brunsvigia radulosa 4. Strumaria tenella 5. Eucomis autumnalis 6. Gladiolus floribundus 7. Gladiolus dalenii 8. Galtonia viridiflora 9. Kniphofiua northiae Thank you, Alberto and Judy !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Apr 22 11:08:48 2008 Message-Id: <42978FFB-239A-4E89-AC2C-6BBF7CA1A86C@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Pacific BX Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:08:27 -0700 Donors are listed and thanked, but there is often a listing of seeds "From PBS". Are these from anonymous donors? Diane From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Tue Apr 22 13:16:00 2008 Message-Id: <001001c8a49c$4c8afe10$0c2b6f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: Pamianthe Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:14:17 -0700 I have a limited quanitity of Pamianthe peruvaina seed available. Please contact me for details. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs www.telosrarebulbs.com From mark@marksgardenplants.com Tue Apr 22 13:22:51 2008 Message-Id: <005601c8a49d$6d72cd00$4001a8c0@galanthophile> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Anenome apennina Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:22:21 +0100 viamarksgardenplantsHi Can anyone help with the query below? Mark N Ireland ----- Original Message ----- From: Kristina M. Hemingway To: mark@marksgardenplants.com Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:25 PM Subject: viamarksgardenplants Good day, I was looking for a resource for Anemone apennina when I stumbled upon your site. If you have any reliable resources for this lovely plant, I would appreciate the referral. Thank you and kind regards, Kristina Hemingway I live in western Maryland -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 12385 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len From dells@voicenet.com Tue Apr 22 14:51:03 2008 Message-Id: <20080422185103.300D14C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 170 correction Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:50:49 -0400 Hi All, The item that I listed as Rhodophiala granatiflora is in fact R. bifids. Here is Alberto's description. The real R. granatiflora will be offered on a later BX.. "I have sent you a parcel with lots of Rhodophiala bifida hybrids, it is a swarm with many shades of pink, reds to the dark red of oxblood lily. I imagine they will arrive already germinated but I do not have the time to dry them off. I prefer you have them as soon as possible. Interesting that among them are all those flaming colors that people love in Chilean Rhodophialas but with the ease of cultivation that is typical of bifida. " Best wishes, Dell From totototo@telus.net Tue Apr 22 19:33:03 2008 Message-Id: <20080422233302.09WA8CNB13@priv-edtnaa05.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: LILY POLLINATION Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:34:48 -0700 On 21 Apr 08, at 11:05, Max Withers wrote: > Although I've never seen it, the morphology of L. bolanderi strongly > suggests a hummingbird pollinator. As Diana says, there is no > accounting for hummingbird taste. My resident Anna's hummingbird > (Calypte anna) appears to be annoyed that he has to fly around a > blooming Leucospermum to get to the lemon tree. *My* resident Anna's hummingbird is nicknamed "the flying hamburger" because he's so rotund. Lots of flowers in the garden, but he prefers above all else Pulmonaria, though flowering currants (Ribes sanguineum) are viewed with approval as well. He is a happy bird: loves to sit in the top of a tree and sing his scratchy, scraping, creaking song. ObGeophytes: Two flowers this year on my not-very-big specimens of Trillium rivale 'Vern Ahier'. A word about this trillium: it is pure T. rivale; the distinguishing characteristic being that the tepals overlap and are curved inward slightly so they form a nearly hemispherical bowl quite unlike the run of the mill T. rivale. The coloring of the flower is nothing unusual for T. rivale, white with red speckles. The species varies a great deal in flower coloration, from pure white to pink, from unspotted to so heavily spotted as to have a purple throat as in cultivar 'Purple Heart'. but most specimens have slightly recurving tepals that do not overlap. I have seen similar bowl-like flowers amongst T. rivale seedlings from another grower, but cannot say if those seedlings had the Vern Ahier form in their ancestry, or not. Also of interest this year, a white-flowered form of Erythronium revolutum, found after years of searching along the banks of Sutton Creek, which drains into Lake Cowichan from the south. It is a frail plant and in all the years I've had it, has not multiplied at all. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Apr 22 18:20:26 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080423032008.01715278@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Edgar Kline -- info, please Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 03:24:49 -0700 Paige asked, >Can anyone tell me about the late Edgar Kline of Lake Grove, Oregon, USA? He >was a respected grower of bulbs. I have seen both Asian lilies and >Erythroniums of W North America mentioned. When was he going strong? Did he >specialize? Did his nursery have a name? What became of his nursery -- and >his stock? Do any of you have any of his stock? > >A correspondent has mentioned an Erythronium received from Edgar Kline in >1970. An online reference makes him a co-founder of Siskiyou Rare Plant >Nursery, but surely that is Boyd Kline. Yes, it's Boyd who co-founded Siskiyou RPN. Edgar Kline's nursery was in southwest Portland (or Lake Oswego -- I went there once but am not sure which jurisdiction it was in). It was called Kline Nursery. After he died, the nursery land was developed for housing, but several local growers and gardeners went there ahead of the bulldozers and rescued many plants, mostly erythroniums and cyclamen. I remember a particularly magnificent population of Cyclamen repandum there. I think some of the material was eventually propagated at Bovees' Nursery, and Jan Palmer of Bovees' may know more about it. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA >Paige Woodward >paige@hillkeep.ca >www.hillkeep.ca > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From dewaardton@yahoo.com Wed Apr 23 12:39:39 2008 Message-Id: <843861.50523.qm@web56609.mail.re3.yahoo.com> From: Ton de Waard Subject: Anenome apennina Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:39:30 -0700 (PDT) Hi Mark, here in Holland P C Nijssen is selling them: Kind regards, Ton --- Mark Smyth wrote: > viamarksgardenplantsHi > > Can anyone help with the query below? > > Mark > N Ireland > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kristina M. Hemingway > To: mark@marksgardenplants.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:25 PM > Subject: viamarksgardenplants > > > Good day, > > I was looking for a resource for Anemone apennina > when I stumbled upon your site. If you have any > reliable resources for this lovely plant, I would > appreciate the referral. > > Thank you and kind regards, > > Kristina Hemingway > > I live in western Maryland > > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for > private users. > It has removed 12385 spam emails to date. > Paying users do not have this message in their > emails. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: > http://www.spamfighter.com/len > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Wed Apr 23 14:47:55 2008 Message-Id: <480F8445.8050003@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: "The Bulb Garden" - This issue is all about Cyclamen! Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:47:33 -0700 Our PBS newsletter, 'The Bulb Garden', is almost in the mail! The PBS board has decided to send this Spring issue to all folks who dropped memberships during 2006 and 2007, as well as to all current members. This is only happening for the current issue. Mailing to international members is scheduled for today; to U.S. members for Friday. If you don't receive your newsletter by late next week, email me privately. Please send topic suggestions and let me know which articles you like, don't like, want to see more of... Starting in July, we will mail the newsletter only to current members. If you wish to receive future issues, please check the web site for membership details or email Pat Colville, our membership chairperson: Pat.Colville@JHResearchUSA.com Publication has not been as regular as we wanted, because there have been no volunteers with time to edit and distribute quarterly issues. Recently I returned as editor and Arnold Tractenberg volunteered to handle distribution. My thanks to Cathy Craig who did a great job during my absence. I don't know how she published any issues while running a demanding business and handling presidential duties. Cathy still consults on the editorial staff. I am happy to be back 'on my old job' and my goal is to publish quarterly, as we did when PBS first started. Meeting that goal depends on receiving articles written by folks who know about growing bulbs in gardens. If you would write an article (see possible topics below) or volunteer, *please get in touch with me*. At some time in the future, I will be writing to many of you to request articles. Please consider saying 'yes' because members will enjoy reading about *your* garden or collection. Any related topic is of interest to all of us. Articles of any length are welcome. A few digital photos will add appeal. Are there benefits to you for writing? You bet! First, there is the enjoyment of writing about a topic you love. Secondly, an article provides free advertising for those of you who sell your plants. Our readers love to order specialty geophytes. Finally, the board is experimenting with the payment of a small stipend for some articles. Marguerite Topics of interest (suggested 200-800 words for most topics): Specific genus: culture, distribution, examples that you grow A visit to a special garden (public or private) A planted group/design of bulbs and their companion plants Use of special tools, frames, greenhouse setups Anecdotes about special gardeners (famous or not) Gardening ideas for your locale Geophytes in your rock garden, raised beds, troughs, etc. Anecdote about a special plant Anecdote about a bird/insect/animal visitor to your garden A spectacular container experiment From totototo@telus.net Wed Apr 23 16:29:29 2008 Message-Id: <20080423202927.6493TSGVCS@priv-edtnaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Trillium rivale "Verne Ahier" Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:31:09 -0700 I made a spelling mistake in my message Re: Lily Pollination. The correct spelling of the Trillium rivale cultivar is Verne Ahier, Verne with a final "e", not Vern with no final "e". A very minor point, but like Sedum spathulifolium 'Cape Blanco', named after the Oregon cape and not the Moroccan city, this cultivar's name is often misspelled, so I felt it was worth setting the record straight. I do not know if this cultivar name has ever been validly published according to the code governing names of cultivated plants, though it has been used for a considerable time. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Apr 23 16:50:08 2008 Message-Id: <3528D6F0-B950-4384-80EE-E530C07FE65A@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Trillium rivale "Verne Ahier" Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:49:41 -0700 and we can add what the Alpine Garden Society calls Dodecatheon pulchellum 'Sooke's Variety', named for Sooke, the place where it was found, and not for a person. Diane > From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Apr 23 16:57:23 2008 Message-Id: <0F84364A-E49F-4FD4-872D-9926C55D183D@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Freesia laxa markings Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:57:03 -0700 I have a plant in an unlabelled pot blooming, and think it may be from seed of Freesia laxa ssp azurea that Sheila Burrow of Perth sent me in 2004. It is pale mauve, with dark marks on the four bottom petals, and two plain petals. All the pictures I have looked at show marks on only three petals. Does this make a difference in identity? I will post a picture in mystery bulbs on the wiki. Diane Whitehead From auchgourishbotgard@falsyde.sol.co.uk Wed Apr 23 17:04:58 2008 Message-Id: <045801c8a58e$13e31f50$0501a8c0@homepc> From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" Subject: LILY POLLINATION Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:05:00 +0100 Many thanks to everyone who has helped and contributed some amazing data and interesting valuable records on this topic. Hugely appreciated and has set my guddled wee Scots brain off chasing a few more ' Hares ' as a result. Writing a Monograph on Lilies and their Allies is proving rewarding for what I am learning but anything but simple and will be hopefully all the better for it on publication, whenever that fine day comes. Iain From msittner@mcn.org Wed Apr 23 19:56:02 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080423164015.030b6668@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Cameron McMaster's visit to California Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:52:04 -0700 Hi, I am pleased to report that Cameron McMaster is paying a visit to us in June of this year. He often goes to Canada to visit a daughter and I've been hoping he'd consider a rather large detour to California and at last he has agreed. He will be arriving in San Francisco Friday June 20th and we'll pick him up and bring him to Gualala. He is scheduled to give a talk for our local Native Plant Society Sunday June 22nd. We'll be driving him to Berkeley on Wednesday June 25 for a visit to the UC Botanical Garden. He is leaving the following morning for Salt Lake City. I'm not sure what he'll be talking about yet since there are so many talks he is prepared to give, but CNPS meetings are open to anyone who is interested. Gualala is probably not very convenient to anyone unless you live here, but on the other hand it is very beautiful place to visit. If any of you are interested in coming to meet Cameron please write me privately and maybe we can work out a day and a place we can all meet. I know he would like to meet many of you. When Bill Dijk visited a number of people came to meet him and we had a really nice time visiting. If coming to Gualala doesn't work for you, we might be able to figure out a way to meet in Berkeley at the Garden the day before he leaves, but I will need to coordinate that with Paul Licht, the director, who is going to be hosting Cameron Wednesday night. Mary Sue From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Apr 24 00:03:59 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Ornithogalum help. Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:55:24 -0500 Dear Friends, A few years ago I was given some bulbs by an elderly friend-now around 95 yo. I thought they might be Roman Hyacinths or similar, but after 2 years of settling they have begun to bloom and are clearly some Ornithogalum. I am too familiar with O. umbellatum to consider this as an ID and I grow O. ponticum which will bloom later. Although this is a late season, what other Ornithogalum would be blooming now - early to mid April. I think the spikes of white flowers (with pale green back-of-petals) will reach over 1 foot, but they are just starting to bloom now. Individual flowers may approach 1 1/2 to 2 in in diameter. I checked the wiki pix for comparison, but nothing seemed real close. And they are hardy in Zone 5. A pleasant surprise, but what is it? Many thanks. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From voltaire@islandnet.com Wed Apr 23 20:36:50 2008 Message-Id: <5177A667-C61F-4E00-9A47-0984171B18A0@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Cameron McMaster's visit to California Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:36:30 -0700 > Cameron McMaster is paying a visit to us in > June of this year. He often goes to Canada So the possibilities are Gualala, Berkeley, or where in Canada? Diane - a short detour north of California. > > From faeden4444@sbcglobal.net Wed Apr 23 21:49:12 2008 Message-Id: <933332.93658.qm@web83606.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> From: Marilyn Pekasky Subject: Cameron McMaster's visit to California Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:49:07 -0700 (PDT) Hi, Mary Sue! Have you made arrangements for him to meet Paul Licht, the director of the Garden? I know Paul would love to meet Mr. McMaster and introduce him to some of our key staff. I'd also like to come up and meet him. My volunteer days are Tuesday and Thursday, but I have no problem making an extra trip. Marilyn ----- Original Message ---- From: Mary Sue Ittner To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 4:52:04 PM Subject: [pbs] Cameron McMaster's visit to California Hi, I am pleased to report that Cameron McMaster is paying a visit to us in June of this year. He often goes to Canada to visit a daughter and I've been hoping he'd consider a rather large detour to California and at last he has agreed. He will be arriving in San Francisco Friday June 20th and we'll pick him up and bring him to Gualala. He is scheduled to give a talk for our local Native Plant Society Sunday June 22nd. We'll be driving him to Berkeley on Wednesday June 25 for a visit to the UC Botanical Garden. He is leaving the following morning for Salt Lake City. I'm not sure what he'll be talking about yet since there are so many talks he is prepared to give, but CNPS meetings are open to anyone who is interested. Gualala is probably not very convenient to anyone unless you live here, but on the other hand it is very beautiful place to visit. If any of you are interested in coming to meet Cameron please write me privately and maybe we can work out a day and a place we can all meet. I know he would like to meet many of you. When Bill Dijk visited a number of people came to meet him and we had a really nice time visiting. If coming to Gualala doesn't work for you, we might be able to figure out a way to meet in Berkeley at the Garden the day before he leaves, but I will need to coordinate that with Paul Licht, the director, who is going to be hosting Cameron Wednesday night. Mary Sue _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From eez55@earthlink.net Wed Apr 23 22:23:31 2008 Message-Id: <380-22008442422318531@earthlink.net> From: "Eugene Zielinski" Subject: "The Bulb Garden" - This issue is all about Cyclamen! Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:23:18 -0400 Could "A visit to a special garden" be about a natural garden -- not planted by human hands? Gene Eugene Zielinski Augusta, GA > [Original Message] > From: Marguerite English > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Date: 4/23/2008 2:48:14 PM > Subject: [pbs] "The Bulb Garden" - This issue is all about Cyclamen! > > > Topics of interest (suggested 200-800 words for most topics): > > A visit to a special garden (public or private) > From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Apr 24 00:48:03 2008 Message-Id: <6E311F18-152E-411F-8599-B3E87DC2D87C@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Ornithogalum help. Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 21:47:46 -0700 O nutans has pale green backs, and the flower seems pale gray. There is no picture of it in the wiki. Diane Whitehead From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Thu Apr 24 01:24:16 2008 Message-Id: <4810197B.2070905@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: "The Bulb Garden" - This issue is all about Cyclamen! Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:24:11 -0700 Absolutely! What did you have in mind? Eugene Zielinski wrote: > Could "A visit to a special garden" be about a natural garden -- not > planted by human hands? > > Gene > Eugene Zielinski > Augusta, GA > > From kellso@irvincentral.com Thu Apr 24 07:03:23 2008 Message-Id: <481068DE.801@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Ornithogalum help. Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 06:02:54 -0500 Jim: My O. nutans is just now finishing. It's in a pot which was overwintered on top of the ground but covered with mulch, sort of a high altitude "plunge". I'd say all my blooms were about an inch, not two. Height's about right. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ James Waddick wrote: > Dear Friends, > A few years ago I was given some bulbs by an elderly > friend-now around 95 yo. I thought they might be Roman Hyacinths or > similar, but after 2 years of settling they have begun to bloom and > are clearly some Ornithogalum. I am too familiar with O. umbellatum > to consider this as an ID and I grow O. ponticum which will bloom > later. > Although this is a late season, what other Ornithogalum would > be blooming now - early to mid April. I think the spikes of white > flowers (with pale green back-of-petals) will reach over 1 foot, but > they are just starting to bloom now. Individual flowers may approach > 1 1/2 to 2 in in diameter. > I checked the wiki pix for comparison, but nothing seemed real close. > > And they are hardy in Zone 5. > > A pleasant surprise, but what is it? > > Many thanks. Jim W. > From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Apr 24 08:42:24 2008 Message-Id: <001201c8a608$f5921580$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Ornithogalum nutans Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:44:37 -0400 I’ve added a picture of Ornithogalum nutans to the wiki; please take a look at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Ornithogalum This species pops up here and there here in the greater Washington, D.C. area. I’ve seen it naturalized in woodland and in city lots. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where there are peonies, camellias, very late daffodils, tulips in variety, the last of the frits, Muscari, Bellevalia, Ornithogalum, Allium, Dichelostemma, Arum, Viola pedata, Phlox divaricata, Ph. subulata, Davidia involucrata, lilacs, azaleas, irises, redbuds, wisteria, dogwoods - the list could go on and on. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu Apr 24 11:40:00 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Ornithogalum now O. nutans Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:47:08 -0500 Dear Jim, Kelly and Diane, Thanks. This must be it. I think I had a fear of "O' from pulling lots of O. umbellatum, the weedy "Star of Bethlehem", and have restricted the genus to a couple O. ponticum I got with high praises from Janis Ruksans years ago. This new addition was unexpected and pleasing. I think I'll keep it on a 'short 'leash' though to prove it self for non-weediness. See if produces huge seed pods from every flower - OR NOT ! Thanks for the help and correct ID. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From kellso@irvincentral.com Thu Apr 24 11:02:01 2008 Message-Id: <4810A0BE.3090502@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Ornithogalum nutans Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:01:19 -0500 Jim M.: Your image reflects what I have. My images will be up at gallery.bulbmeister.com, surely within the next century. ;) Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ Jim McKenney wrote: > I’ve added a picture of Ornithogalum nutans to the wiki; please take a look > at: > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Ornithogalum > > This species pops up here and there here in the greater Washington, D.C. > area. I’ve seen it naturalized in woodland and in city lots. > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone > 7, where there are peonies, camellias, very late daffodils, tulips in > variety, the last of the frits, Muscari, Bellevalia, Ornithogalum, Allium, > Dichelostemma, Arum, Viola pedata, Phlox divaricata, Ph. subulata, Davidia > involucrata, lilacs, azaleas, irises, redbuds, wisteria, dogwoods - the list > could go on and on. > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From djordan68@comcast.net Thu Apr 24 11:18:06 2008 Message-Id: <9DA23F93B2FA43FDB33A8F692DCD39C0@debbiePC> From: "Deborah Jordan" Subject: Freesia laxa markings Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:14:10 -0500 Diane-- Interesting observation about your Freesia laxa ssp azurea bloom. It made me go look at my photo's on this species. Just going through a few of my pictures, I also found the odd bloom in the group with markings on four of the petals. I like to grow this species because it blooms in January here, when little else is blooming. Now I'll have to go look at some of the reds and also 'Joan Evans' and see if this occurs with them too. Right now I have lots of seeds and bulbs of Freesia laxa ssp azurea. Debbie Houston, Texas From shayek.kent@gmail.com Fri Apr 25 20:09:50 2008 Message-Id: From: shayek.kent@gmail.com Subject: flower? Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:09:42 -0700 Can you tell what this is? http://www.flickr.com/photos/resinacacia/2438152231/ s. -- susan hayek; doggies jasper, quiz, schubert, gracie, & jones on the coast of NorCal -- shayek.kent@gmail.com, 2008 my flicker fotos: http://flickr.com/photos/57336354@N00/ From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Fri Apr 25 20:20:33 2008 Message-Id: <6rfke8$94n1ed@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out2.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: flower? Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 10:20:12 +1000 At 10:09 AM 26/04/2008, you wrote: >Can you tell what this is? > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/resinacacia/2438152231/ Susan, By the looks of it is an "artistic" photo. I think the flowers are Ornithogalum arabicum or something closely related by the look of it, arranged hanging downwards for effect etc against a tree "trunk". I don't think it is a climber, but I am more than happy to be proved wrong as it would be rather impressive. Cheers. Paul T. Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Galanthus, Irises, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Fri Apr 25 22:34:50 2008 Message-Id: <001a01c8a746$6fd66510$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: flower? Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:37:12 -0400 I was thinking Ornithogalum saundersii. Jim McKenney From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Apr 26 12:52:59 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Spring Bulb Misc Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:53:14 -0500 Dear Friends, As the spring bulb season seems to be peeking, a few observations and Qs. Muscari/Bellevalia - Although not my favorite genus, I grow a few. Bulbs purchased as M. paradoxa are in full bloom now. Very unique coloring and large size. I think this is now considered a Bellevalia. Fritillaria 'Ivory Bells'. I bought 2 bulbs last fall from a Dutch source. First introduced (I think) by Janis Ruksans a few years ago at $100 @, they have reached a reasonable price. I was leery about the 'ivory' quality of the flower color and now have my worst suspicions confirmed. Each bulb produced 2 husky flowering stems with dozens of large green bell shaped flowers. SA the flower fade they turn, not ivory, but paler green. Not my color, but interesting. Not very aware of Frit genetics, I casually dabbled pollen of F. pallidiflora on F' Ivorry Bells'. Any chance these might be compatible? F. pallidiflora does very well here in a fee shady spots and the pale flowers rather ghostly in the amongst the deep greens around it. Meanwhile two European species are showing off - if brown and green flowers can ever be called showy. F. acmopetala is growing at the base of an open shrub. The tall skinny stems are supported by the branches and it reaches well over 2 feet in height. Numerous juvenile offsets have broad oval foliage VERY unlike the adult linear foliage on flowering stems. Arum- various species are emerging now and I am curious why these are not more widely grown A. nigrum and A italicum 'Chameleon' are very different and my favorites. And a small plant of Helicodiceros muscivorous has popped up for 3rd or 4th year denying its reputation for tenderness. I doubt it will ever bloom in the ground, but that isn't so bad considering the stench that ensues. I have a few Dracunculus around and they'll provide plenty of aroma when they bloom. Aril-bred and oncocyclus iris are putting up flowering stems now as Junos in the same beds are fading away. Again I don't know why these desert iris species and numerous hybrids are not more widely grown. They do take some special care, but the distinctive and unique colors and patterns especially in earliest spring are dazzling. Another spring beauty is the various colors and forms of Anemone nemorosa and the closely related A. ranunculoides. Hard to beat the old A.n. 'Robinsoniana', but the hybrid of the two species is pale creamy yellow is also very nice. Some of the doubles are a bit weird, but none are overpowering so they stay put. One new cv (the name escapes me) has almost too large flowers; out of proportion. Otherwise this is a great spring ephemeral. I am sure I'll have more to relate as the season continues. best Jim W. ps A local garden center has pots of Rhodohypoxis bauri in various colors (none named). I bought one at $7 with maybe 50 bulbs just emerging with single bright pink flowers. What a show and a bargain. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Sat Apr 26 14:04:43 2008 Message-Id: <48136EB4.9030803@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Spring Bulb Misc Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:04:36 -0700 What are their special care needs? Thanks, Marguerite James Waddick wrote: > Aril-bred and oncocyclus iris are putting up flowering stems > now as Junos in the same beds are fading away. Again I don't know > why these desert iris species and numerous hybrids are not more > widely grown. They do take some special care, but the distinctive and > unique colors and patterns especially in earliest spring are dazzling. > > > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Apr 26 14:57:06 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Spring Bulb Misc Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 13:57:35 -0500 >What are their special care needs? > Thanks, Marguerite > >James Waddick wrote: > Aril-bred and oncocyclus iris ... do take some special care. Dear Marguerite, Glad you asked. First they are mix of species and hybrids. Some breeders have produced plants that have some of the flower colors and patterns of the wild species, but are bred with regular (tall bearded or German ) iris. Trouble is they are as easy as the garden types, but do not nearly express the beauty of the original. Just a bit or preparation is needed. They DEMAND good drainage and full sun. They prefer totally dry/baking summers, but can tolerate some wetness. I grow all mine outdoors year round in a raised wall bed. We get summer storms. In very wet climates some growers cover the beds with glass or plastic panels to increase baking and some even dig the iris and store dry in a shady garage or shed. More details at the web site of the Aril Society Int. (http://www.arilsociety.org/arilsociety.pl?index). Although mine grow in garden clay, they are on top of rocks and rubble that increases the overall drainage. The more pure species (either subgenus Oncocyclus or Regelia) the more they restricted they are in their needs, but many 50/50 hybrids and 3/4 aril hybrids do very well here. The best show the following aril characters: 1 The aril 'Spot' - a large deep black or dark signal in the middle of the fall 2 The aril shape with elongate upright standards and curled pendant falls 3 Exotic veins and streak in all parts of the flowers 4 Unusual colors and combinations 5 Extremely rich colors 6 Some have large hairy beards. The aril society also has a gallery. Click on any thumbnail for larger views. Once seen to their advantage, many are taken on first view. I think you can see More pix at John Lonsdale's garden (http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/) I think. Enjoy. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From Arbolito@aol.com Sat Apr 26 22:07:52 2008 Message-Id: <8CA76229493D75C-998-6A9C@webmail-nf06.sim.aol.com> From: arbolito@aol.com Subject: Pacific BX 170 Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 22:07:30 -0400 Dear Dell, Please send me the following BULBS 2.?Habranthus robustus SEED: 3. Brunsvigia radulosa 4. Strumaria tenella 6. Gladiolus floribundus 7. Gladiolus dalenii 8. Galtonia viridiflora Thanks, Jim Bauml -----Original Message----- From: Dell Sherk To: 'Adam Fikso' ; 'c' ; DavBouch5@aol.com; Douglas Westfall ; General PBS forum ; 'Macfarlane' ; 'Mark' ; 'Mark Wilcox' ; Pat Colville ; The Masterson Family Sent: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 6:56 am Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 170 Dear All, Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Sun Apr 27 01:20:46 2008 Message-Id: <48140D0D.80302@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Spring Bulb Misc Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 22:20:13 -0700 And is there a similar website and/or organization out there about Junos? --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a James Waddick wrote: >> What are their special care needs? >> Thanks, Marguerite >> >> James Waddick wrote: >> Aril-bred and oncocyclus iris ... do take some special care. >> > > Dear Marguerite, > Glad you asked. > > First they are mix of species and hybrids. Some breeders have > produced plants that have some of the flower colors and patterns of > the wild species, but are bred with regular (tall bearded or German ) > iris. Trouble is they are as easy as the garden types, but do not > nearly express the beauty of the original. Just a bit or preparation > is needed. > > They DEMAND good drainage and full sun. They prefer totally > dry/baking summers, but can tolerate some wetness. > I grow all mine outdoors year round in a raised wall bed. We > get summer storms. In very wet climates some growers cover the beds > with glass or plastic panels to increase baking and some even dig the > iris and store dry in a shady garage or shed. More details at the web > site of the Aril Society Int. > (http://www.arilsociety.org/arilsociety.pl?index). > Although mine grow in garden clay, they are on top of rocks > and rubble that increases the overall drainage. > > The more pure species (either subgenus Oncocyclus or Regelia) > the more they restricted they are in their needs, but many 50/50 > hybrids and 3/4 aril hybrids do very well here. The best show the > following aril characters: > > 1 The aril 'Spot' - a large deep black or dark signal > in the middle of the fall > 2 The aril shape with elongate upright standards and > curled pendant falls > 3 Exotic veins and streak in all parts of the flowers > 4 Unusual colors and combinations > 5 Extremely rich colors > 6 Some have large hairy beards. > > The aril society also has a gallery. Click on any thumbnail > for larger views. Once seen to their advantage, many are taken on > first view. I think you can see More pix at John Lonsdale's > garden (http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/) I think. > > Enjoy. Jim W. > From msittner@mcn.org Sun Apr 27 10:22:05 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080427065920.034c8068@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Aril irises Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:19:22 -0700 Susan Hayek and I spent a lot of time creating the wiki Iris pages in 2006. With his permission we added many pictures from John Lonsdale's site. We have a wiki page for Aril Irises so it's another resource for pictures. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/ArilIrises I'll add to my very long wiki "to do list" including comments from Jim's Waddick's recent message. The main Iris page is our third most popular wiki page after our Home Page and the Photographs and Information page. Mary Sue From telosrarebulbs@suddenlink.net Sun Apr 27 12:28:24 2008 Message-Id: <000501c8a883$779477e0$0c2b6f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Telos Rare Bulbs" Subject: Pucara Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 09:26:37 -0700 I posted a picture on my blog of a Pucara that I have down as being a new species, undescribed as yet. Can anyone tell me anything about Pucara? Blog is: www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com. From LucGBulot@aol.com Sun Apr 27 12:34:09 2008 Message-Id: <8CA769B9EB3A456-103C-3095@WEBMAIL-DC03.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Juno Irises Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:33:55 -0400 Dear Lee, Have a look at the following pages : www.britishirissociety.org.uk/juno.html www.junos.ca and of course : www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/JunoIrises Enjoy, Luc From dkramb@badbear.com Sun Apr 27 13:19:42 2008 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20080427131938.03c0eca0@badbear.com> From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Pucara Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 13:19:52 -0400 At 12:26 PM 4/27/2008, you wrote: >I posted a picture on my blog of a Pucara that I have down as being a new >species, undescribed as yet. Can anyone tell me anything about Pucara? >Blog is: www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com. Wow! That's just cuuute!!! :o) Dennis in Cincinnati From dells@voicenet.com Sun Apr 27 13:34:53 2008 Message-Id: <20080427173453.1684B4C015@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pucara Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 13:34:30 -0400 Hi Diana, I have Pucara leucantha (seed from Alan Meerow?). I think that Alan has proposed moving Pucara into Stenomesson. It has bloomed once or twice, but I got no seed. I grow it in a pot in summer outside with regular watering and with a winter dormancy, completely dry and cool. Dell -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Telos Rare Bulbs Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 12:27 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Pucara I posted a picture on my blog of a Pucara that I have down as being a new species, undescribed as yet. Can anyone tell me anything about Pucara? Blog is: www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun Apr 27 14:31:37 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Juno Irises Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 13:31:50 -0500 >www.britishirissociety.org.uk/juno.html > >www.junos.ca > >and of course : www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/JunoIrises > Dear Lee, All good suggestions from Luc. Thanks Junos are poorly represented in gardens. Unlike all the rest of the genus, bulbous iris are not part of either the British Iris Society or the American Iris Society. Although the latter is the official registrar of iris, bulbous iris are handled by the Royal Dutch Bulb Growers and as such with less commercial bulbs, generally ignored. A few years ago I edited a publication called 'Gardening with Iris Species, as part of an International Symposium at the Missouri Botanical Gardens. We arranged for Alan McMurtrie* to write a good summary of Junos which you can read on line by going to http://www.Junos.ca/HTML%20Pages/articles.html then scroll down about 3/4 of the page to Junos: An Overview. The article page also has links to a variety of hybrids and species in pix. Junos make up about 1/4 of all iris species, but few people grow even half dozen forms. Mine are mostly finishing up. I can recommend Jane McGary as a source for the easy and beautiful 'Sindpers' hybrid and I magnifica grows readily in most garden soils. Same for I bucharica and others. You should be able to grow at least some of them very easily in Mediterranean climates. Best Jim W. Alan, a Canadian grower and hybridizer, is best known for his advances in Reticulata Iris hybrids, but his web site cover lots of 'edgy' irises. Start with http://www.ReticulataIris.com/index.html and enjoy. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From othonna@gmail.com Sun Apr 27 14:37:20 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260804271137x748862d9v32a4fa7a74e6f733@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Pucara Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 11:37:10 -0700 Your photo depicts Stenomesson chloranthum. It was described a few years ago by Alan Meerow and Henk van der Werff (as a Stenomesson) and was only placed in Pucara provisionally. Pucara differs from Stenomesson by its pollen in tetrads as I recall. It is formally "lumped" into Stenomesson now as this is not enough of a difference to maintain it as a separate genus. No doubt molecular investigations support this view also. So P. leucantha is now S. leucanthum. Too bad for us collectors such an evocative name had to go away. Dylan Hannon Dylan Hannon Rare Bulbs On 4/27/08, Telos Rare Bulbs wrote: > > I posted a picture on my blog of a Pucara that I have down as being a new > species, undescribed as yet. Can anyone tell me anything about Pucara? > Blog is: www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com. > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Sun Apr 27 15:37:59 2008 Message-Id: <000d01c8a89d$f592ce70$0c2b6f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: Pucara Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:36:15 -0700 Hi Dylan: So what is Pucara leucantha? Stenomesson leucanthum? Diana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hannon" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Pucara > Your photo depicts Stenomesson chloranthum. It was described a few years > ago > by Alan Meerow and Henk van der Werff (as a Stenomesson) and was only > placed > in Pucara provisionally. Pucara differs from Stenomesson by its pollen in > tetrads as I recall. It is formally "lumped" into Stenomesson now as this > is > not enough of a difference to maintain it as a separate genus. No doubt > molecular investigations support this view also. So P. leucantha is now S. > leucanthum. Too bad for us collectors such an evocative name had to go > away. > > Dylan Hannon > Dylan Hannon Rare Bulbs > > > On 4/27/08, Telos Rare Bulbs wrote: >> >> I posted a picture on my blog of a Pucara that I have down as being a new >> species, undescribed as yet. Can anyone tell me anything about Pucara? >> Blog is: www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Sun Apr 27 16:00:36 2008 Message-Id: <6008475.1209326431769.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: Spring Bulb Misc Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:00:31 -0500 (GMT-05:00) > > Aril-bred and oncocyclus iris are putting up flowering stems >now as Junos in the same beds are fading away. Again I don't know >why these desert iris species and numerous hybrids are not more >widely grown. They do take some special care, but the distinctive and >unique colors and patterns especially in earliest spring are dazzling. > Jim: Aril-bred 'Desert Fury' with I. sari at it's feet just finished blooming. It doesn't get any better. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 7b-8 From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun Apr 27 21:27:25 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Spring Bulb Misc Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:07:51 -0500 >They do take some special care, but the distinctive and > >unique colors and patterns especially in earliest spring are dazzling. >> >Jim: >Aril-bred 'Desert Fury' with I. sari at it's feet just finished >blooming. It doesn't get any better. > >Mark Mazer Dear Mark, So how do you grow them in the relatively wet of North Carolina? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From pameladaz@msn.com Sun Apr 27 17:47:09 2008 Message-Id: From: "Pamela Slate" Subject: Spring Bulb Misc Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:46:28 -0700 Mark, Do you have a photo of that iris combination you mentioned? Thanks. Pamela Pamela Slate P.O. Box 5134 Carefree AZ 85377 -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Mark Mazer Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 1:01 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Spring Bulb Misc > > Aril-bred and oncocyclus iris are putting up flowering stems >now as Junos in the same beds are fading away. Again I don't know >why these desert iris species and numerous hybrids are not more >widely grown. They do take some special care, but the distinctive and >unique colors and patterns especially in earliest spring are dazzling. > Jim: Aril-bred 'Desert Fury' with I. sari at it's feet just finished blooming. It doesn't get any better. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 7b-8 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1400 - Release Date: 4/27/2008 9:39 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1400 - Release Date: 4/27/2008 9:39 AM From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sun Apr 27 18:23:24 2008 Message-Id: <000b01c8a8b5$9f3b26e0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Spring Bulb Misc Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:25:37 -0400 Iris stolonifera began to bloom yesterday when the day time high was over 80 degrees F. Some tall forms of Iris hoogiana should bloom on the next sunny days. We have had many days over 80 degrees F already, and as a result lots of plants have rushed into bloom. Many tree peonies are already in full bloom - in fact, the earliest ones have already dropped all of their petals; others have not yet started. The tulips we traditionally think of as May-flowering tulips are already in bloom and passing. Double late tulips do not last long in the heat. In the bulb frames, the general foliage color is passing to sickly greens and yellows: some have died down for the year already. For instance, the frits of the Rhinopetalum group are quitting for the year. A cold front came through with rain overnight, and today it is about 30 degrees colder and wet. The second half of April here is dryer and often much warmer than you would think is typical for April. May on the other hand tends to be wetter and cooler - an effect made more pronounced with the leafing out of deciduous trees. The comparatively wetter conditions in May are one of the several complications in growing bulbs here: it would be much better if the bulbs matured into dry conditions. As May progresses, it gets hotter, too: hot, damp soil are not good bulb maturing conditions. Here's my take on juno irises under my conditions: some are tricky, but there are plenty of easy ones. Junos received under the names magnifica, vicaria, rosenbachiana, aucheri, zenaidae, bucharica, orchioides are all easy as long is they have dry summer conditions. Winters here are generally cold enough to obviate the foliage disease problems reported in other areas. I suspect that the bad reputation they have is largely due to the influence of the literature: junos can be difficult under British conditions for instance, and generations of American gardeners have turned to Britain for guidance. There are plants which I have trouble with here, plants I have not yet figured out how to grow, but the juno irises common and inexpensive in commerce are not among them. I've never tried Iris planifolia (I suspect that I would have no trouble with it in my protected cold frame). Nor have I had success with the members of what I'll broadly call the persica group. But for anyone in a similar climate who wants to add a new dimension to their iris patch, there are plenty of easy junos to try. Fritillaria biflora forms shot up into bloom last week. The scapes suddenly elongated and the flower buds suddenly started to grow and open. F. recurva is also in bloom: I should be very happy about this, but this plant somehow does not seem to be taking to life in Maryland well. Arum cyrenaicum is in bloom also now. I received this under this name and also as A. korolkowii. These both have the protection of cold frames (one protected, one out in the open); I have no idea how well the winter growing foliage would fare in the open. I momentarily bristled when I read Jane McGary's report that Arum italicum is thought of as a trash plant in her area. But of course location is everything in gardening, and here in zone 7 Maryland somebody else's trash is a cherished element of the winter garden. In most local gardens it's the only link to the genus Arum, because many other winter growing species are not reliably hardy in the open garden over time. In the mountains of Chile, Tecophilaea is evidently little better than trash to the local livestock industry. As I mature as a gardener, I'm still trying hard to learn to genuinely appreciate what I already have and to cut back on the seemingly insatiable acquisition and preoccupation with plants really better suited to other climates. [One or two of you will soon be receiving orders which will suggest that my resolve in these matters is less than firm; please be professional about this and keep it to yourself.] But like so many of you, I have to kill it myself to be convinced. The view from our front door is of three Magnolia stellata in their early maturity; these are underplanted with broad masses of Helleborus foetidus. This is my favorite hellebore, and it's another plant widely regarded as a trash plant. I have no idea what people make of my garden: beside the abundant trash there are things such as Asphodelus acaulis, Hacquetia epipactis, oncos, cyps and the "Jane McGary east" collection of obscure bulbs. It really is a garden where one man's trash is another man's treasure: and depending on where your home garden is, you might have a hard time deciding which is which. And while the Tecophilaea here are not likely to be grazed by cattle, they might be nibbled by deer if I'm not careful. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where some Babiana, Freesia and African Ornithogalum are finally about to bloom after being in growth all winter. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From othonna@gmail.com Sun Apr 27 20:55:07 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260804271754t5e3e2adao239ed290cd4435fb@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Pucara Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:54:54 -0700 Yes, S. leucanthum On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Diana Chapman wrote: > Hi Dylan: > > So what is Pucara leucantha? Stenomesson leucanthum? > > Diana > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hannon" > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 11:37 AM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Pucara > > > > Your photo depicts Stenomesson chloranthum. It was described a few years > > ago > > by Alan Meerow and Henk van der Werff (as a Stenomesson) and was only > > placed > > in Pucara provisionally. Pucara differs from Stenomesson by its pollen > in > > tetrads as I recall. It is formally "lumped" into Stenomesson now as > this > > is > > not enough of a difference to maintain it as a separate genus. No doubt > > molecular investigations support this view also. So P. leucantha is now > S. > > leucanthum. Too bad for us collectors such an evocative name had to go > > away. > > > > Dylan Hannon > > Dylan Hannon Rare Bulbs > > > > > > On 4/27/08, Telos Rare Bulbs wrote: > >> > >> I posted a picture on my blog of a Pucara that I have down as being a > new > >> species, undescribed as yet. Can anyone tell me anything about Pucara? > >> Blog is: www.thebulbmaven.typepad.com. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> pbs mailing list > >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From voltaire@islandnet.com Sun Apr 27 21:18:20 2008 Message-Id: <8160F714-3D7B-4A11-A310-6DE23303C790@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Spring Bulb Misc Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:18:02 -0700 Jim McKenney wrote: > I'm still trying hard to learn to genuinely > appreciate what I already have and to cut back on the seemingly > insatiable > acquisition and preoccupation with plants really better suited to > other > climates. I read that a California experimental station, back when the government funded them, grew 10,000 seedlings of a shrub from somewhere in the Southern Hemisphere, and the ones that survived and thrived are now some of the commonest landscaping plants in California. I can't remember the genus - maybe something like Grevillea. So Jim, cutting back is not the answer. Wild expansion is the way to go. How many acres do you have? Diane Whitehead From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sun Apr 27 21:34:19 2008 Message-Id: <004501c8a8d0$50b2d3e0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Spring Bulb Misc Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:36:42 -0400 Diane Whitehead asked " How many acres do you have?" The lot is approximately .25 acre. The house, sidewalks, a patio, a shed take a big chunk of that. Shade from massive oaks makes much of what is left unsuitable for sun loving plants. Wild expansion? Maybe in my dreams. I'm running a garden here, not an agricultural experiment station. Of course, I behave (i.e. buy) as if I'm running an agricultural experiment station. Jim McKenney From djordan68@comcast.net Sun Apr 27 23:10:51 2008 Message-Id: <9BD496F92B5F486CB4E177EAC513604F@debbiePC> From: "Deborah Jordan" Subject: Tigridia species Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 22:06:58 -0500 I have a couple of questions about some Tigridia's from seed. I read the info and prior TOW posting from the WIKI--and read Howard--but still am curious here. Any with opinions? ;) First, Tigridia chiapensis. I have some very robust 4 month old seedlings; would it be unreasonable to expect bloom in one year from these since it's a small species? The cynic in me wants to hold back from excitement here. Second, T vanhoutti--I know these are tall, 3rd year bloom on this one? Also high altitude Central America usually translates to dry winter for me and semi-shady in the humid inferno of a Houston July-Sept. Am I correct here? I can usually make Mexican, Central, and South American bulb species work out pretty well for me--I sort of use the same guidelines I use in growing Central American mountainous species of Scutellaria's which I have been growing for many years. Am I on the right path? Debbie Houston, TX From othonna@gmail.com Mon Apr 28 00:17:13 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260804272117w5d10e93epd8cbff75d62b9d94@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: Spring Bulb Misc Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:17:07 -0700 Diane, So is that the plantsman's version of "publish or perish"? I agree with your sentiment here. Refinement or deepening of one's interests can also increase enjoyment of the daunting variety of plants out there, especially learning botanical aspects that help make more sense of it all. If you grow a particular species, what sort of geographic or other variation exists within that species? Is there a story behind the collector? What is the habitat like for the species, and for the particular material you have? These things make even very frugal collecting compelling and fun. Dylan On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 6:18 PM, Diane Whitehead wrote: > Jim McKenney wrote: > > > I'm still trying hard to learn to genuinely > > appreciate what I already have and to cut back on the seemingly > > insatiable > > acquisition and preoccupation with plants really better suited to > > other > > climates. > > I read that a California experimental station, back when the > government funded them, grew 10,000 seedlings of a shrub from > somewhere in the Southern Hemisphere, and the ones that survived and > thrived are now some of the commonest landscaping plants in > California. I can't remember the genus - maybe something like > Grevillea. > > So Jim, cutting back is not the answer. Wild expansion is the way to > go. How many acres do you have? > > Diane Whitehead > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Apr 28 00:38:33 2008 Message-Id: <8A4D2B7C-EE33-46BD-9526-02CE280CA0CA@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Spring Bulb Misc Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:38:13 -0700 Dylan wrote: > If you grow a particular species, what sort of geographic or other > variation exists within > that species? Yes. I used to grow one of each. I needed to fit in as many different plants as possible, so one was enough. Then I started going to talks given by travellers and collectors. The plants that they showed sometimes didn't look much like mine at all. So I changed my habits slightly. If something does well for me, and I like it, I will get seed of it from anyone, anywhere, in hopes of some variants. It was just after this that I realized that concentrating on bulbs would let me squeeze in lots of different plants, and many more than one of each. Raise a cheer for skinny plants! Diane Whitehead From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Apr 27 17:24:31 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080427213508.0170bed8@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Spring Bulb Misc Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:42:32 -0700 Jim Waddick wrote, Arum- various species are emerging now and I am curious why >these are not more widely grown I think many gardeners avoid them because A. italicum is viewed (at least here in the Pacific Northwest) as a trash plant. I like it, though, and grow several cultivars -- but I have a very big garden with fast-draining soil, which keeps it under control by drying it out more than it appreciates in summer. One weedy species can condemn an entire genus in the minds of unadventurous gardeners. Ornithogalum and Muscari are good examples (though the latter has more than one weedy member). Some gardeners here feel this way about Anemone nemorosa, which Jim praised, but I can't see why: it's so little it can't possibly outcompete anything it might grow near. Jim went on, > Aril-bred and oncocyclus iris are putting up flowering stems >now as Junos in the same beds are fading away. Again I don't know >why these desert iris species and numerous hybrids are not more >widely grown. I think (a) they are hard to get and expensive, and (b) as Jim noted they require special care, which here would include overhead protection in winter and constant spraying to quell the leaf pathogens to which they are very susceptible in mild, wet weather. I grow a few, but only in the bulb frame. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From jegrace@rose.net Mon Apr 28 02:15:18 2008 Message-Id: <1209363282_138254@mail.rose.net> From: "jegrace" Subject: Spring Bulb Misc Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 02:13:25 -0400 Diane, I like the way you think! Maybe I can use that excuse with my everloving husband. Erin Grace, Thomasville, GA From LucGBulot@aol.com Mon Apr 28 04:42:11 2008 Message-Id: <8CA77227851CAA9-16B4-4111@WEBMAIL-MB09.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Juno and Aril Irises Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 04:39:13 -0400 Junos make up about 1/4 of all iris species, but few people grow even half dozen forms. Mine are mostly finishing up. I can recommend Jane McGary as a source for the easy and beautiful 'Sindpers' hybrid and I magnifica grows readily in most garden soils. Same for I bucharica and others. You should be able to grow at least some of them very easily in Mediterranean climates. Hi Lee, Hi Jim, In my meditteranean climate, am growing only a limited number of Juno species but several clones of each : Iris bucharica (4 clones), I. aucheri (2 clones) and I. danfordiae (2 clones)... I have plans to introduce more species in a new raised bed I am bulding new fall... I have had no problems of any kind with those three species. I grow them in a highly drained soil and keep them almost dry all over summer (June to August). They are less sensitive to summer moisture than the Oncocyclus but neverthe less don't like much water in summer. One thing?that was?forgoten to mention about Oncocyclus is that they are very sensitive to viruses... and any type including the ones carried out naturally by the bearbed Irises (and harmless to them)...?Once infected?the Oncocyclus might pass?the viruses to the?Junos... So be very carefull with what species you mix and how you mix them in your Irises beds... I am working out the litterature about the Oncocyclus and will decide in the future which ones I shall try... I already have received a I. bismarkiana from a friend - raised from seeds - it never bloomed for me yet and therefore I could not check the ID... It is clearly an Oncocyclus but not sure of the species... Hope it helps, Luc From LucGBulot@aol.com Mon Apr 28 06:49:57 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7734B8C79658-16B4-43CB@WEBMAIL-MB09.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Anton Hofreiter publications on Alstoemeriaceae Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:49:52 -0400 Hi all, Just wanted to tell the list that I received a whole serie of pdf reprints about Alstoemeriaceae from Peru and Bolivia by Anton Hofreiter and collaborators... This include revision of Bomarea and its subgenus Sphaerine and Wichuraea. Anyone interested by copies can contact me directly at lucgbulot@aol.com Luc From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Mon Apr 28 09:56:47 2008 Message-Id: <2322561.1209391006585.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: Spring Bulb Misc Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:56:46 -0500 (GMT-05:00) > >>They do take some special care, but the distinctive and >> >unique colors and patterns especially in earliest spring are dazzling. >>> >>Jim: >>Aril-bred 'Desert Fury' with I. sari at it's feet just finished >>blooming. It doesn't get any better. > >Dear Mark, > So how do you grow them in the relatively wet of North Carolina? > Jim: They are planted on the surface in a raised (8 inches) sand bed over our native sandy, silty, clayey soil with a rather porous landscape fabric under the sand. I do have the ability to cover them in the summer, but so far it has not been necessary as the summers have been dry. 'Desert Fury' flourished in the open Connecticut garden for years with no special treatment. Best, Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 7b-8 From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Apr 28 10:10:02 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Spring Bulb Misc - responses Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:10:28 -0500 Jane McG wrote- paraphrased: ARUM I think many gardeners avoid them because A. italicum is viewed ... as a trash plant. >One weedy species can condemn an entire genus in the minds of unadventurous >gardeners. Ornithogalum and Muscari are good examples (though the latter >has more than one weedy member). Some gardeners here feel this way about >Anemone nemorosa, > Aril-bred and oncocyclus iris ....Junos >I think (a) they are hard to get and expensive, and (b) as Jim noted they >require special care, which here would include overhead protection in >winter and constant spraying to quell the leaf pathogens to which they are >very susceptible in mild, wet weather. Dear Jane: location, location, location ( to borrow from the real estate market) Here most gardeners are still marvelling at any Arum even A italicum. Almost no one grows any other, yet some do quite well here; even those I got from you. No one that I know or can imagine would consider any Arum a 'trash' plant. I totally agree with you that one species can "ruin" ones view of the whole genus and Muscari and Ornithogalum (as I mentioned earlier) are excellent examples, but NO Anemone fits that description here. Few people even know let alone grow A. nemorosa. Even the most vigorous cvs stay well contained in small ephemeral patches that seem like they could never encroach on another, the plant equivalent of the proverbial "flea"*. I have to physically dig and divide a clump to re- establish a new planting. Can't imagine it running rampant ever. Although some Arils and Junos ARE expensive, Some good ones are not at all: As Jim McK suggests, the Regelias I stolonifera and I hoogiana are cheap and available widely and among the easiest.( As an aside, membership in the Aril Society allows you to purchase Aril iris from their annual sale with MANY excellent species and cvs as low as $3 each. Some amazing plants) Among Junos I bucharica, magnifica, and graeberiana also qualify as cheap and easy. Back to location- here they grow in the open garden, do NOT require overhead protection and I have never seen virus or other leaf pathogens (disregarding late freeze damage). Here. I know they are much more difficult to grow in the Pacific NW, and they are more than challenging there. As Jim McK also said, and I fully agree, many American gardeners are over influenced by the pronouncements of the British garden publication world and would sooner believe Gertrude Jeykll than the personal experience of a grower down the block. The US is far from uniform for growing conditions and many of my most challenging plants are weedy on either coast. As I continue to garden I learn to appreciate more fully the unique Mid-Continent climate here that allows me to grow some plants that are a challenge on either coast. I guess the lesson is 'Grow locally' And I must respond positively to Diane's comment about plant variations and need to grow lots of stuff. Having studied a variety of plants in the wild from Asia to South America and much of the US, it is very obvious to me that many plants in gardens represent a very small piece of the total variation in the wild. To some extreme extant I have seen people argue that plant "X" should be considered a separate species because it is so distinct from plant "Y", yet in the wild both "X" and "Y" freely mingle interbreed and represent just 2 points on a wider range of variation. We often have a very limited gene pool for cultivated plants and we tend to focus on just one selected form as typical of a variable population. Yet another good reason to grow more. Get rid of every inch of lawn and grow every possible wild collected seed you can lay your hands on. Sorry to babble so, but I encourage everyone to try a plant even though "everyone' says you can't grow THAT HERE. Location is only one part of the success or failure. There is also dogged, stubborn enthusiasm. Best to all especially Jane, Jim McK, Luc and Diane for their 2 cents worth. Jim W. *As in "He wouldn't hurt a flea" -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From Clayton3120@cablespeed.com Mon Apr 28 12:23:35 2008 Message-Id: <001a01c8a94b$e745c5d0$0a428f18@youro0kwkw9jwc> From: "Clayton3120" Subject: Spring Bulb Misc - responses Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:21:14 -0700 LOL, Like you said, location, location, location. Arums in my garden(Seattle) have become a weed, even the selected forms people pay big $$$$ for. They apparently like our wet climate with dry summers. As for Aril and Onco Iris, they look like a wet dishrag going thru winter, and barely survive. It just gets too wet here. My greenhouse and tunnels are overflowing with other goodies to be coddling these spring flash-in- the pan beauties, so will admire the photos you all send in. Happy Spring. Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Waddick" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Spring Bulb Misc - responses > Jane McG wrote- paraphrased: > ARUM I think many gardeners avoid them because A. italicum is > viewed ... as a trash plant. > >>One weedy species can condemn an entire genus in the minds of >>unadventurous >>gardeners. Ornithogalum and Muscari are good examples (though the latter >>has more than one weedy member). Some gardeners here feel this way about >>Anemone nemorosa, > > >> Aril-bred and oncocyclus iris ....Junos > >>I think (a) they are hard to get and expensive, and (b) as Jim noted they >>require special care, which here would include overhead protection in >>winter and constant spraying to quell the leaf pathogens to which they are >>very susceptible in mild, wet weather. > > > Dear Jane: location, location, location ( to borrow from the > real estate market) > > Here most gardeners are still marvelling at any Arum even A > italicum. Almost no one grows any other, yet some do quite well > here; even those I got from you. No one that I know or can imagine > would consider any Arum a 'trash' plant. > > I totally agree with you that one species can "ruin" ones > view of the whole genus and Muscari and Ornithogalum (as I mentioned > earlier) are excellent examples, but NO Anemone fits that description > here. Few people even know let alone grow A. nemorosa. Even the most > vigorous cvs stay well contained in small ephemeral patches that seem > like they could never encroach on another, the plant equivalent of > the proverbial "flea"*. I have to physically dig and divide a clump > to re- establish a new planting. Can't imagine it running rampant > ever. > > Although some Arils and Junos ARE expensive, Some good ones > are not at all: As Jim McK suggests, the Regelias I stolonifera and > I hoogiana are cheap and available widely and among the easiest.( As > an aside, membership in the Aril Society allows you to purchase Aril > iris from their annual sale with MANY excellent species and cvs as > low as $3 each. Some amazing plants) Among Junos I bucharica, > magnifica, and graeberiana also qualify as cheap and easy. > Back to location- here they grow in the open garden, do NOT > require overhead protection and I have never seen virus or other leaf > pathogens (disregarding late freeze damage). Here. > I know they are much more difficult to grow in the Pacific > NW, and they are more than challenging there. > > As Jim McK also said, and I fully agree, many American > gardeners are over influenced by the pronouncements of the British > garden publication world and would sooner believe Gertrude Jeykll > than the personal experience of a grower down the block. > The US is far from uniform for growing conditions and many of > my most challenging plants are weedy on either coast. As I continue > to garden I learn to appreciate more fully the unique Mid-Continent > climate here that allows me to grow some plants that are a challenge > on either coast. I guess the lesson is 'Grow locally' > > And I must respond positively to Diane's comment about plant > variations and need to grow lots of stuff. Having studied a variety > of plants in the wild from Asia to South America and much of the US, > it is very obvious to me that many plants in gardens represent a very > small piece of the total variation in the wild. To some extreme > extant I have seen people argue that plant "X" should be considered a > separate species because it is so distinct from plant "Y", yet in the > wild both "X" and "Y" freely mingle interbreed and represent just 2 > points on a wider range of variation. We often have a very limited > gene pool for cultivated plants and we tend to focus on just one > selected form as typical of a variable population. Yet another good > reason to grow more. Get rid of every inch of lawn and grow every > possible wild collected seed you can lay your hands on. > > Sorry to babble so, but I encourage everyone to try a plant > even though "everyone' says you can't grow THAT HERE. > > Location is only one part of the success or failure. There is > also dogged, stubborn enthusiasm. > > Best to all especially Jane, Jim McK, Luc and Diane for their > 2 cents worth. Jim W. > > > *As in "He wouldn't hurt a flea" > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ellis@onlinenw.com Mon Apr 28 15:20:54 2008 Message-Id: From: Nancy Ellis Subject: Spring Bulb Misc & hello Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:20:20 -0700 Hello all- I'm new to this list and have not yet explored the archives thoroughly so if I'm asking for info already posted, please forgive my impatience to learn... I do not grow many Iris other than Siberians and Reticulatas and I. unguicularis (spelling ?) - oh, and some Tall Bearded that came w/ our property- and thus I've no experience w/ Aril and Onco Iris but have thought perhaps I'd one day try them. Now that I've read Rick's post (below) I've decided not to risk the 'wet dishrag' - sigh- is there a sort that would do well w/out special care in my climate? Which is wet winter/ dry summer, Zone 8, sun/shade. And to introduce myself a bit: East Coast transplant here for 17 years with a main passion for Narcissus species and hybrids and a love for bulbs in general. No professional horticultural or botanical training although my love of plants did take me into part-time work in a specialty nursery where the emphasis is on perennials/shrubs/ vines. 99% of our plants are propagated by ourselves and after 5 years I've absorbed quite a bit of hands-on experience of the nursery business. The bulbs we sell are not unusual. One owner grows special things for his own enjoyment and of course I egg him on...mainly by sowing all the seeds from all the bulbs. My own garden has suffered sadly in the past year from neglect caused by a long bout of tendinitis. I find container growing easier but will not give up on planting Narcissus in the ground. I began making hybrid Narcissus crosses about 5 yrs ago. I love all the species and have planted J&J seeds several times. I wonder why it is that species bulbs are not made more available to the gardening public- perhaps one of you has the answer! (I do not mean wild collected; I mean garden/nursery grown) End of my short bio-- Nancy Ellis ---summer watering is just not on my chore list but if the plant demands it, I'll consider it.... Willamette Valley Dayton, Oregon On 28 Apr 08, at 9:21 AM, Clayton3120 wrote: LOL, Like you said, location, location, location. Arums in my garden(Seattle) have become a weed, even the selected forms people pay big $$$$ for. They apparently like our wet climate with dry summers. As for Aril and Onco Iris, they look like a wet dishrag going thru winter, and barely survive. It just gets too wet here. My greenhouse and tunnels are overflowing with other goodies to be coddling these spring flash-in- the pan beauties, so will admire the photos you all send in. Happy Spring. Rick - From adam14113@ameritech.net Mon Apr 28 15:49:07 2008 Message-Id: <000701c8a968$a7efe970$c4ed8f47@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: growing the oncocyclus and arilbred irises. Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:47:11 -0500 Hello all. Re Jim Waddick's idea that more people should be growing the arilbred irises. I agree, but I'd be more cautionary than he, having grown them off and on for about 50 years. Much depends on where one lives, and the adjustments one is willing to make. In the U.S. Most can be grown relatively easily in a raised bed or a hillside in gritty to gravelly soil, which has a fairly large particle size. I would not advise anyone outside of southern Calfornia to grow the species, with a few oncocyclus species exceptions, and the regelias which are more tolerant of water and tougher with respect to cold and below freezing temperatures. To grow the oncocyclus species for more than a year, (bringing them through a couple of winters) requires that they be covered and shielded from rain during their necessary summer dormancy. Further, although virus can be a problem particularly with the species, and some of the older arilbreds, the greater problem in the U.S. east of Nebraka is iris borer which can have killed plant while you think it's still alive. Imidacloprid is the best defense against this with two early sprayings or granules in the ground in early April or March. An aspirin drench of 2 325 mg. tabs /gal.is a workable defense against virus infections, keeping them under control quite effectively so one wiill not even see any evidence of virus. I am impressed-- Luc, with the idea that you may have I. bismarckiana growing from seed. What was thte provenance of the seed? It was declared extinct at the original site at Crak des Chevaliers in Syria a few years ago, but I have some reason to believe that that report was premature. I bloomed a few plants from there back in about 1960 and have never forgotten the experience but could not keep them alive. The humidity alone in Illinois is high enough to guarantee their dying. I would regard seed from most other souces as not being I. bismarckiana, even if appearing to satisfy the botanical key. It is easily confused with I. hermona. Incidentally this is one species I would say not even be tried, allng with auraniti, sofarana and gatesii unless one is prepared to grow the rhizomes in pure coarse sand, gravel, or decomposed granite (with the dust sifted or washed out), and covered and baked in the summer in neutral to alkaline pH. Fortunately they are nearly unobtainable. Representative forms of arilbreds can be seen by going to the Aril Society International site ,and then clicking on the checklist marker in the left margin , then going to the illustrated in color checklist which will and colorful checklist. From rpries@sbcglobal.net Mon Apr 28 15:56:00 2008 Message-Id: <738796.83699.qm@web81906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Robt R Pries Subject: Spring Bulb Misc & hello Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:55:58 -0700 (PDT) Nancy; Seeds of bulbs are often available through a number of plant societies. The Pacific Bulb Society which is the sponsor of this chat group offers seeds through their seed & bulb exchange. Posts labeled BX will appear from time to time. Members of the North American Rock Garden Society recieve a seed exchange with usually around six thousand selections many of which are bulbs. The Species Iris group of North America offers seed of Iris and other Iris family relatives. It is amazing what is available within the world of plant societies but these things don't get advertized in the garden magazines. Welcome to the group there are many great plantspeople here. --- Nancy Ellis wrote: > Hello all- > I'm new to this list and have not yet explored the > archives > thoroughly so if I'm asking for info already posted, > please forgive > my impatience to learn... > I do not grow many Iris other than Siberians and > Reticulatas and I. > unguicularis (spelling ?) - oh, and some Tall > Bearded that came w/ > our property- and thus I've no experience w/ Aril > and Onco Iris but > have thought perhaps I'd one day try them. > Now that I've read Rick's post (below) I've decided > not to risk the > 'wet dishrag' - sigh- > is there a sort that would do well w/out special > care in my > climate? Which is wet winter/ dry summer, Zone 8, > sun/shade. > And to introduce myself a bit: East Coast > transplant here for 17 > years with a main passion for Narcissus species and > hybrids and a > love for bulbs in general. No professional > horticultural or botanical > training although my love of plants did take me into > part-time work > in a specialty nursery where the emphasis is on > perennials/shrubs/ > vines. 99% of our plants are propagated by ourselves > and after 5 > years I've absorbed quite a bit of hands-on > experience of the nursery > business. The bulbs we sell are not unusual. One > owner grows special > things for his own enjoyment and of course I egg him > on...mainly by > sowing all the seeds from all the bulbs. My own > garden has suffered > sadly in the past year from neglect caused by a long > bout of > tendinitis. I find container growing easier but will > not give up on > planting Narcissus in the ground. I began making > hybrid Narcissus > crosses about 5 yrs ago. I love all the species and > have planted J&J > seeds several times. I wonder why it is that species > bulbs are not > made more available to the gardening public- perhaps > one of you has > the answer! (I do not mean wild collected; I mean > garden/nursery grown) > End of my short bio-- > > Nancy Ellis > ---summer watering is just not on my chore list but > if the plant > demands it, I'll consider it.... > Willamette Valley > Dayton, Oregon > > > > > On 28 Apr 08, at 9:21 AM, Clayton3120 wrote: > > LOL, > Like you said, location, location, location. > Arums in my garden(Seattle) have become a weed, > even the selected > forms > people pay big $$$$ for. They apparently like our > wet climate with dry > summers. > As for Aril and Onco Iris, they look like a wet > dishrag going thru > winter, > and barely survive. It just gets too wet here. > My greenhouse and tunnels are overflowing with > other goodies to be > coddling these spring flash-in- the pan beauties, > so will admire the > photos > you all send in. > Happy Spring. > Rick > - > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From msittner@mcn.org Mon Apr 28 18:17:19 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080428142540.03585898@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Bulbs for your own climate Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:05:50 -0700 Hi, One of the interesting things about this list has been learning about bulbs I can and cannot grow. I agree that sometimes it is worth trying something you don't think would be possible and finding you can grow it. I've also found that some things that I'd think would be a cinch haven't been. Some of the bulbs that come from climates unlike mine that grow and bloom in summer I've had short term success growing, but over time they have faded away. It seems far more rewarding to concentrate on the things that are not so difficult and like Diane suggested grow different forms of them. During the two plus years we had the topic of the week, we had discussions of regional favorites. I couldn't get people from some of the different regions to introduce and help so we didn't cover all the possible areas. But for those people who are interested below are some links to the archives to check out. Look at responses to the introduction as well as other people chimed in with what worked for them. For some strange reason it looks like a lot of the messages in the archives are listed twice. Before my listing of the regional favorites below I thought I'd ask this earlier in my message in case everyone doesn't read to the end: When we were doing the topic of the week we had some interesting contributions when we profiled people's favorite bulbs by color. Any interest in starting a topic where everyone who wants to participate lists where they live and ten bulbs (down to the species level at least) that are planted in the ground that come back year after year with little to no care? I think it would be a fascinating topic and it would also be interesting to keep a running tally to see if there were bulbs that made it on a number of lists. I'm sure a lot of people would have more than ten, but then you could pick the ten you liked the most. January 2003 - Bulbs for Pacific Northwest Gardens-- Ernie O'Byrne Introduction http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2003-January/000170.html March 2003 - Bulbs for Mediterranean Gardens I started this out with this post: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2003-March/013260.html but you can find the others listed under Bulbs for .. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2003-March/subject.html Not all areas considered Mediterranean are the same with a great variation in temperatures summer and winter and amounts of rainfall and even to some degree when it rains. April 2003 Growing tender bulbs in cold climates Introduction from Mark Mazer http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2003-April/002469.html Bulbs for Continental Climates, Upper Midwest Introduction from Boyce Tankersley http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2003-April/002647.html June 2003 Bulbs for Texas Introduction from Cynthia Mueller http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2003-June/003167.html We stopped at that point which was disappointing since I'm sure there were a lot of other areas that could have been profiled and weren't. Nancy might find reading the posts on bulbs for the Pacific Northwest interesting. From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Apr 28 19:26:30 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: carefree garden bulbs Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:26:09 -0700 Yes, I would be interested in this topic. When I make my list, I will try hard not to just put down everything that is blooming right now. I think I should spread my list over the whole year, or should that be a different topic? Diane Whitehead From msittner@mcn.org Mon Apr 28 19:52:01 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080428164603.0354d728@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: carefree garden bulbs Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:43 -0700 We can structure this any way we like, but I suggest that we just list the bulbs that are carefree in the ground (not pampered in containers or frames or covered part of the year) and that it be bulbs that bloom reliably in your garden any time of the year. I made my long list of more than 40 that I easily thought of and have no doubt forgotten others. It doesn't include all those that are happier in containers so if we choose to do this I will have to whittle my list down to ten. I think this could be really fun as some people will have things on their list that are impossible to grow in other areas. Mary Sue From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Apr 28 21:26:31 2008 Message-Id: <56AD6F64-FD70-4134-864D-21BDD1B595E7@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: carefree garden bulbs Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:26:13 -0700 Winter: November to March Snowdrops Galanthus elwesii I have one form that begins flowering in the fall and carries on through Christmas, but most flower in January and February. They are very variable if one takes the time to look carefully. Spring: March and April Little Blue Flowers (the flower equivalent of Little Brown Birds) - they started out with various names of Scilla, like S. sibirica and S. biflora and Chionodoxa luciliae, seeded, hybridized, and cover almost the entire half acre. I think it is safe to call them XChionoscilla allenii, but I'm sure you can't buy that - you probably have to produce your own. Erythronium dens-canis - my many named forms imported from Europe all seem to be the same pinky-mauve, but they flower a lot earlier than our natives, have nicely marked leaves, and creep to form patches. Anemone nemorosa - I have an unnamed form that produces very long rhizomes and therefore gallops across the garden. Most of my named forms produce much shorter rhizomes and therefore increase modestly. There are enough forms to interest a collector. Erythronium oregonum and a hybrid between oregonum and the pink revolutum. Beautiful upturned white or pink lily flowers, and dark- blotched leaves. These do not increase vegetatively, so it is a long wait for seedlings to flower. Trillium ovatum, native to my property. I need to protect its flowers from deer so that it can set seed. [I am not including Big Blue Flowers: Bluebells, Endymion hispanicus, which is winning my war against it] Summer: May to September Polygonatum x hybridum yes, it spreads, but it is so graceful with its tall curved form. It is delightful to see customers carrying pots of it in flower at local Mother's Day plant sales - all across a gymnasium, you can see the bobbing flowers, high above heads. Convallaria majalis - another spreader, but oh! the scent. Lily of the Valley is open for Mother's Day every year. I have two forms with striped leaves, and they don't spread nearly as much as the plain- leaved one. Summer to frost, which usually comes in November: Dahlias -A number of years ago I bought seeds of a scented one (Hy Scent) and a black-leaved one, and they produce masses of single flowers till frost, and occasionally seed themselves. Schizostylis coccinea, South African, like a miniature gladiolus in shades of pink, salmon, and red, plus a weak-growing white. Fall: September and October Gladiolus papilio - a rhizomatous South African. The flowers are drab shades, but there is a yellow one with a red blotch that I have on my want list. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From msittner@mcn.org Mon Apr 28 22:45:54 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080428184159.034ce3f8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: carefree garden bulbs Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:36:06 -0700 Hi, I love Diane's format and her descriptions so here are mine modified slightly. Also I found it excruciatingly painful eliminating a number of things that bring me pleasure without any attention every year. I'm remember people's best movie lists and how they mention some almost made the list so I have that too. September to December Gladiolus carmineus -- This delightful Gladious starts popping up without leaves even before it starts to rain reminding me that the whole new flower season is coming. I've let it seed itself about so am always pleased to find some new ones in bloom Iris unguicularis -- This one blooms for me a very long time between rains. It sometimes looks a bit bedraggled, but there is nothing like taking a walk around your garden in winter and spying it in bloom March to May Although I have a lot of wonderful things growing in pots and blooming in January and February those things in the ground really start to take off in March Freesia alba -- This is definitely weedy in my garden, but it is so delightfully fragrant that it makes the list since it makes walking through the garden delightful Moraea aristata -- This species is almost extinct in the wild, but is naturalizing all over my garden and for the last several years I have quite a display for a week or two. I don't see seed pods so am not sure how it expands to new spots, but it also produces a lot of cormlets so each display gets better every year Sparaxis hybrids -- I once tried to dig these all out, but I've given up. They are delightful colors and combinations. Delphinium nudicaule -- I've planted this out, but some of those spots are gone now, but since it reseeds, it has found new areas it is happy including in the middle of gravel pathways Babiana ssp -- Long ago I had seed of mixed species and planted it without ever trying to figure out what they were. Could be hybrids. Definitely too happy in my garden, but when they are in bloom, I have to confess they are very colorful and charming Moraea (Homeria subgroup) -- Very weedy in my coastal garden, but they bloom for months in wonderful combinations of orange, yellow, and gold, mixing nicely with many of my shrubs and other plants Iris douglasiana -- Native to this area and never planted in my garden. Mine are a nice rich purple June, sometimes earlier or later Three more native to where I live Lilium maritimum -- a rare and protected plant that I am encouraging, such a nice red exterior Zigadenus fremontii -- long blooming and very pretty I think Chlorogalum pomeridianum -- nice wavy interesting leaves and lovely white starry flowers opening in late afternoon in time for a walk before dinner Dierama pendulum I think. Planted by previous owner in my garden. Has reseeded to new areas of the garden finding sun as some of the other areas get too shady and is very dramatic in bloom and seed Almost making the cut: Amaryllis belladonna,Crocus imperati, Dichelostemma capitatum,Gladiolus carneus, Ixia dubia, Leucojum aestivum, Lilium pardalinum, Orthrosanthus chimboracensis, Nerine pudica, Triteleia ixioides, Tritonia deusta Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Apr 29 13:27:04 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: carefree garden bulbs - not here Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:29:14 -0500 Dear Diane and Mary Sue, I loved reading your lists, but have a major disjunction relating this to my garden. I can grow 7 of the 16 items Diane mentioned, although not as lustily as she described. Mary sue mentioned 11 by name and another almost ran 11. Of these 22 I can grow only one (the Leucojum) outdoors and carefree. I guess I'll give it some thought and come up with a list later. Different strokes. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From LucGBulot@aol.com Tue Apr 29 05:36:28 2008 Message-Id: <8CA77F39C0F0BD4-49C-144@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Iris bismarkiana Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:36:17 -0400 I am impressed-- Luc, with the idea that you may have I. bismarckiana growing from seed. What was thte provenance of the seed? It was declared extinct at the original site at Crak des Chevaliers in Syria a few years ago, but I have some reason to believe that that report was premature. I bloomed a few plants from there back in about 1960 and have never forgotten the experience but could not keep them alive. The humidity alone in Illinois is high enough to guarantee their dying. I would regard seed from most other souces as not being I. bismarckiana, even if appearing to satisfy the botanical key. It is easily confused with I. hermona. Dear Adam, As I said in?my previous post I can't guarantee that I have a true I. bismarkiana. I got the plants from a friend who was runing a nursery a few years ago and stopped business for a while. When I got them they were two years seedlings... I kept one for myself and planted it in full ground - while a gave the other plant to a friend who has one of the French national collection of botanical Irises. I have no idea of the origin of the seeds but I know that the guy I got the plants from was in contact with the Jerusalem Botanical garden. This might be the source of the seeds. He is now back in business after long travels over the world collecting seeds and I shall see him in a few weeks. I will ask if he kept a record of the source of his seeds. Regarding I. bismarkiana identification, I would be curious to have your opinion about the plants illustrated on the following web page : http://www.bulbsociety.org/GALLERY_OF_THE_WORLDS_BULBS/GRAPHICS/Iris/Iris_bismarckiana/I_bismarckiana.html The photo was posted by Dr Ori Fragman-Sapir of the Jerusalem Botanical garden. There is more pictures on the Botanical website at the following URL http://www.botanic.co.il/A/catalog.asp?qcat=IRIBIS http://www.botanic.co.il/english/guide/gardenPlantsAll.asp?qcatnr=I&qord=Latin_name&lng=E If I understand well the plants illustrated are at least in cultivation and living population still occur in the Mount Hermon area close to the Israeli/Lebanon border... Thanks also for your imput... Luc From LucGBulot@aol.com Tue Apr 29 05:41:26 2008 Message-Id: <8CA77F451A9C6C8-49C-153@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: : carefree garden bulbs Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:41:22 -0400 Dear Mary Sue, Is the list to be restricted to bulbous plants sensu stricto, or does other geophytes counts as well (non bulbous Iridaceae for example) ? Luc From LucGBulot@aol.com Tue Apr 29 07:40:12 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7804E70B2793-49C-514@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:40:05 -0400 Hi all, I have been searching the web for more information on the Oncocyclus of Israël and Lebanon. Here is a summary of what I found. The Iris section Oncocyclus comprise 10 species in Israel and Jordan (see list below), all endemic with limited and distinct populations. In 1998, the Royal Iris project sponsored by the DFG and common to Mainz University in Germany, The Hebrew University in Israel and Bethlehem University in the Palestinian Authority aimed to reinforce the connections between three nations, in addition to the conservation targets. The project had four goals: recording and conservation of all populations in Israel, monitoring population dynamics, systematic reviewing and pollination ecology research. The main objective was to discover the relationship between the Royal Irises’ special characters: solitary giant flower, no nectar reward, dark colour, and male bees lodging. The Royal Irises are known as the first priority for conservation in Israel. As a result the following species were studied. For each species, the flowering period is listed, followed by the distribution and in parenthesis the best place to see wild populations.     Iris lortetii - Beginning of April - Upper Galilee - Shomron Mts. (Tel Hatzor). Iris bismarckiana - March - Upper & Lower Galilee (Dishon gorge, Givat Hamore). Iris hermona - mid March - Central Golan Heights (Mapalim crossroad). Iris atrofusca - mid March to April - South Golan, Gilead Mts. Mts., Shomron & Judea deserts, Arad to Beer Sheva (Tel Arad, Haon escarpment). Iris haynei - March - Gilboa (Gilboa - Mt. Barkan). Barkan). Iris atropurpurea - mid January to February - Coastal plain (Nes Ziona, Netanya Iris reserve). Iris bostrensis - Second half of March - North Jordan (Ramtha to Mafraq). Iris nigricans - April - Moab Mts., Jordan (East to Kerak). Iris petrana - April-March - Edom (Jordan); North Negev, Yerucham to Dimona (Dana Nature reserve, Yerucham Iris reserve). Iris mariae - Beginning of March - Sand dunes of the Western Negev (Agur dunes, Kibutz Magen).Agur dunes, Kibutz Magen). Although many taxonomists dealt with this section in the last 120 years, no quantitative research was held. Many transition forms between species or populations are known from the field. The project's purpose was to examine the speciation trends in the Royal Irises, and connect eco-geographic conditions with morphologic and genetic variance. The research conducted in 1998 revealed that the morphological traits changed along the eco-geographical North-South gradient: flower size, stem height and leaf characters change along the aridity gradient. The results suggesting that the Royal Irises should merge into four morpho-species: Iris lortetii, Iris Bismarckiana (include I. hermona), Iris haynei (include I. atrofusca, I. atropurpurea and I. petrana) and Iris mariae. Details are to be found in : Arafeh R.M.H., Sapir Y., Shmida A., Iraki N., Fragman O., Comes H.P. 2002. Patterns of genetic and phenotypic variation in Iris haynei and I. atrofusca (Iris sect. Oncocyclus the Royal Irises) along an environmental gradient in Israel and the West Bank. Molecular Ecology 11: 39–53. Sapir, Y., A. Shmida, O. Fragman and H. P. Comes. 2002. Morphological variation of the Oncocyclus Irises in the southern Levant. Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society. 139: 369-382. If anybody is interested I have a pdf copy of that paper... Hope this will help the Iris maniacs... Luc Arafeh R.M.H., Sapir Y., Shmida A., Iraki N., Fragman O., Comes H.P. 2002. Patterns of genetic and phenotypic variation in Iris haynei and I. atrofusca (Iris sect. Oncocyclus the Royal Irises) along an environmental gradient in Israel and the West Bank. Molecular Ecology 11: 39–53. Sapir, Y., A. Shmida, O. Fragman and H. P. Comes. 2002. Morphological variation of the Oncocyclus Irises in the southern Levant. Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society. 139: 369-382. If anybody is interested I have a pdf copy of that paper... Hope this will help the Iris maniacs... Luc Iris atropurpurea - mid January to February - Coastal plain (Nes Ziona, Netanya Iris reserve). Iris bostrensis - Second half of March - North Jordan (Ramtha to Mafraq). Iris nigricans - April - Moab Mts., Jordan (East to Kerak). Iris petrana - April-March - Edom (Jordan); North Negev, Yerucham to Dimona (Dana Nature reserve, Yerucham Iris reserve). Iris mariae - Beginning of March - Sand dunes of the Western Negev (Agur dunes, Kibutz Magen).Agur dunes, Kibutz Magen). Although many taxonomists dealt with this section in the last 120 years, no quantitative research was held. Many transition forms between species or populations are known from the field. The project's purpose was to examine the speciation trends in the Royal Irises, and connect eco-geographic conditions with morphologic and genetic variance. The research conducted in 1998 revealed that the morphological traits changed along the eco-geographical North-South gradient: flower size, stem height and leaf characters change along the aridity gradient. The results suggesting that the Royal Irises should merge into four morpho-species: Iris lortetii, Iris Bismarckiana (include I. hermona), Iris haynei (include I. atrofusca, I. atropurpurea and I. petrana) and Iris mariae. Details are to be found in : Arafeh R.M.H., Sapir Y., Shmida A., Iraki N., Fragman O., Comes H.P. 2002. Patterns of genetic and phenotypic variation in Iris haynei and I. atrofusca (Iris sect. Oncocyclus the Royal Irises) along an environmental gradient in Israel and the West Bank. Molecular Ecology 11: 39–53. Sapir, Y., A. Shmida, O. Fragman and H. P. Comes. 2002. Morphological variation of the Oncocyclus Irises in the southern Levant. Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society. 139: 369-382. If anybody is interested I have a pdf copy of that paper... Hope this will help the Iris maniacs... Luc Arafeh R.M.H., Sapir Y., Shmida A., Iraki N., Fragman O., Comes H.P. 2002. Patterns of genetic and phenotypic variation in Iris haynei and I. atrofusca (Iris sect. Oncocyclus the Royal Irises) along an environmental gradient in Israel and the West Bank. Molecular Ecology 11: 39–53. Sapir, Y., A. Shmida, O. Fragman and H. P. Comes. 2002. Morphological variation of the Oncocyclus Irises in the southern Levant. Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society. 139: 369-382. If anybody is interested I have a pdf copy of that paper... Hope this will help the Iris maniacs... Luc (Tel Arad, Haon escarpment). Iris haynei - March - Gilboa (Gilboa - Mt. Barkan). Barkan). Iris atropurpurea - mid January to February - Coastal plain (Nes Ziona, Netanya Iris reserve). Iris bostrensis - Second half of March - North Jordan (Ramtha to Mafraq). Iris nigricans - April - Moab Mts., Jordan (East to Kerak). Iris petrana - April-March - Edom (Jordan); North Negev, Yerucham to Dimona (Dana Nature reserve, Yerucham Iris reserve). Iris mariae - Beginning of March - Sand dunes of the Western Negev (Agur dunes, Kibutz Magen).Agur dunes, Kibutz Magen). Although many taxonomists dealt with this section in the last 120 years, no quantitative research was held. Many transition forms between species or populations are known from the field. The project's purpose was to examine the speciation trends in the Royal Irises, and connect eco-geographic conditions with morphologic and genetic variance. The research conducted in 1998 revealed that the morphological traits changed along the eco-geographical North-South gradient: flower size, stem height and leaf characters change along the aridity gradient. The results suggesting that the Royal Irises should merge into four morpho-species: Iris lortetii, Iris Bismarckiana (include I. hermona), Iris haynei (include I. atrofusca, I. atropurpurea and I. petrana) and Iris mariae. Details are to be found in : Arafeh R.M.H., Sapir Y., Shmida A., Iraki N., Fragman O., Comes H.P. 2002. Patterns of genetic and phenotypic variation in Iris haynei and I. atrofusca (Iris sect. Oncocyclus the Royal Irises) along an environmental gradient in Israel and the West Bank. Molecular Ecology 11: 39–53. Sapir, Y., A. Shmida, O. Fragman and H. P. Comes. 2002. Morphological variation of the Oncocyclus Irises in the southern Levant. Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society. 139: 369-382. If anybody is interested I have a pdf copy of that paper... Hope this will help the Iris maniacs... Luc Arafeh R.M.H., Sapir Y., Shmida A., Iraki N., Fragman O., Comes H.P. 2002. Patterns of genetic and phenotypic variation in Iris haynei and I. atrofusca (Iris sect. Oncocyclus the Royal Irises) along an environmental gradient in Israel and the West Bank. Molecular Ecology 11: 39–53. Sapir, Y., A. Shmida, O. Fragman and H. P. Comes. 2002. Morphological variation of the Oncocyclus Irises in the southern Levant. Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society. 139: 369-382. If anybody is interested I have a pdf copy of that paper... Hope this will help the Iris maniacs... Luc Iris atropurpurea - mid January to February - Coastal plain (Nes Ziona, Netanya Iris reserve). Iris bostrensis - Second half of March - North Jordan (Ramtha to Mafraq). Iris nigricans - April - Moab Mts., Jordan (East to Kerak). Iris petrana - April-March - Edom (Jordan); North Negev, Yerucham to Dimona (Dana Nature reserve, Yerucham Iris reserve). Iris mariae - Beginning of March - Sand dunes of the Western Negev (Agur dunes, Kibutz Magen).Agur dunes, Kibutz Magen). Although many taxonomists dealt with this section in the last 120 years, no quantitative research was held. Many transition forms between species or populations are known from the field. The project's purpose was to examine the speciation trends in the Royal Irises, and connect eco-geographic conditions with morphologic and genetic variance. The research conducted in 1998 revealed that the morphological traits changed along the eco-geographical North-South gradient: flower size, stem height and leaf characters change along the aridity gradient. The results suggesting that the Royal Irises should merge into four morpho-species: Iris lortetii, Iris Bismarckiana (include I. hermona), Iris haynei (include I. atrofusca, I. atropurpurea and I. petrana) and Iris mariae. Details are to be found in : Arafeh R.M.H., Sapir Y., Shmida A., Iraki N., Fragman O., Comes H.P. 2002. Patterns of genetic and phenotypic variation in Iris haynei and I. atrofusca (Iris sect. Oncocyclus the Royal Irises) along an environmental gradient in Israel and the West Bank. Molecular Ecology 11: 39–53. Sapir, Y., A. Shmida, O. Fragman and H. P. Comes. 2002. Morphological variation of the Oncocyclus Irises in the southern Levant. Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society. 139: 369-382. If anybody is interested I have a pdf copy of that paper... Hope this will help the Iris maniacs... Luc Arafeh R.M.H., Sapir Y., Shmida A., Iraki N., Fragman O., Comes H.P. 2002. Patterns of genetic and phenotypic variation in Iris haynei and I. atrofusca (Iris sect. Oncocyclus the Royal Irises) along an environmental gradient in Israel and the West Bank. Molecular Ecology 11: 39–53. Sapir, Y., A. Shmida, O. Fragman and H. P. Comes. 2002. Morphological variation of the Oncocyclus Irises in the southern Levant. Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society. 139: 369-382. If anybody is interested I have a pdf copy of that paper... Hope this will help the Iris maniacs... Luc From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Tue Apr 29 07:48:53 2008 Message-Id: <6eq1ke$6bmoof@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out4.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:48:33 +1000 Luc, I am not sure whether it is just me or not, but your last message (which I think would be of interest to me) came through as one huge paragraph, making it nearly impossible to read. I don't know if it is a formatting problem or not, but I do seem to from time to time have this happen with your postings (which is a shame as they're often so informative). Am I the only one that has this problem? Thanks. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. At 09:40 PM 29/04/2008, you wrote: >Hi all, I have been searching the web for more >information on the Oncocyclus of Israël and >Lebanon. Here is a summary of what I found. The >Iris section Oncocyclus comprise 10 species in >Israel and Jordan (see list below), all endemic >with limited and distinct populations. In 1998, >the Royal Iris project sponsored by the DFG and >common to Mainz University in Germany, The >Hebrew University in Israel and Bethlehem >University in the Palestinian Authority aimed to >reinforce the connections between three nations, >in addition to the conservation targets. The >project had four goals: recording and >conservation of all populations in Israel, >monitoring population dynamics, systematic >reviewing and pollination ecology research. The >main objective was to discover the relationship >between the Royal Irises’ special characters: >solitary giant flower, no nectar reward, dark >colour, and male bees lodging. The Royal Irises >are known as the first priority for conservation >in Israel. As a result the following species >were studied. For each species, the flowering >period is listed, followed by the distribution >and in parenthesis the best place to see wild >populations.    Iris lortetii - Beginning of >April - Upper Galilee - Shomron Mts. (Tel >Hatzor). Iris bismarckiana - March - Upper & >Lower Galilee (Dishon gorge, Givat Hamore). Iris >hermona - mid March - Central Golan Heights >(Mapalim crossroad). Iris atrofusca - mid March >to April - South Golan, Gilead Mts. Mts., >Shomron & Judea deserts, Arad to Beer Sheva (Tel >Arad, Haon escarpment). Iris haynei - March - >Gilboa (Gilboa - Mt. Barkan). Barkan). Iris >atropurpurea - mid January to February - Coastal >plain (Nes Ziona, Netanya Iris reserve). Iris >bostrensis - Second half of March - North Jordan >(Ramtha to Mafraq). Iris nigricans - April - >Moab Mts., Jordan (East to Kerak). Iris petrana >- April-March - Edom (Jordan); North Negev, >Yerucham to Dimona (Dana Nature reserve, >Yerucham Iris reserve). Iris mariae - Beginning >of March - Sand dunes of the Western Negev (Agur >dunes, Kibutz Magen).Agur dunes, Kibutz Magen). >Although many taxonomists dealt with this >section in the last 120 years, no quantitative research was ............. etc. From LucGBulot@aol.com Tue Apr 29 07:56:02 2008 Message-Id: <8CA78071FC10C79-49C-5FD@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: : More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:55:59 -0400 Dear Paul, I am surprised since it arrived to me with the tabulations I put in the original text... May be you don't receive e-mails in HTML format ? If it comes the same way to others I will repost it under a different format... Thanks for telling, Luc From kellso@irvincentral.com Tue Apr 29 07:58:20 2008 Message-Id: <48170D51.3040205@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:58:09 -0500 came through fine here Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ Paul T. wrote: > Luc, > > I am not sure whether it is just me or not, but > your last message (which I think would be of > interest to me) came through as one huge > paragraph From ixia@dcsi.net.au Tue Apr 29 08:06:29 2008 Message-Id: <00cd01c8a9f1$6ea6b250$0200a8c0@ownerd7bcfa40f> From: "Bill Richardson" Subject: More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:06:12 +1000 Paul, came through fine here. Must be your formatting. regards, Bill Richardson Ixiaking Gippsland Victoria, Australia Autumn 6c to 32c at present www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia ixia@dcsi.net.au ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul T." To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 9:48 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan Luc, I am not sure whether it is just me or not, but your last message (which I think would be of interest to me) came through as one huge paragraph, making it nearly impossible to read. I don't know if it is a formatting problem or not, but I do seem to from time to time have this happen with your postings (which is a shame as they're often so informative). Am I the only one that has this problem? Thanks. Cheers. Paul Tyerman Canberra, Australia. At 09:40 PM 29/04/2008, you wrote: >Hi all, I have been searching the web for more >information on the Oncocyclus of Israël and >Lebanon. Here is a summary of what I found. The >Iris section Oncocyclus comprise 10 species in >Israel and Jordan (see list below), all endemic >with limited and distinct populations. In 1998, >the Royal Iris project sponsored by the DFG and >common to Mainz University in Germany, The >Hebrew University in Israel and Bethlehem >University in the Palestinian Authority aimed to >reinforce the connections between three nations, >in addition to the conservation targets. The >project had four goals: recording and >conservation of all populations in Israel, >monitoring population dynamics, systematic >reviewing and pollination ecology research. The >main objective was to discover the relationship >between the Royal Irisesâ?T special characters: >solitary giant flower, no nectar reward, dark >colour, and male bees lodging. The Royal Irises >are known as the first priority for conservation >in Israel. As a result the following species >were studied. For each species, the flowering >period is listed, followed by the distribution >and in parenthesis the best place to see wild >populations.    Iris lortetii - Beginning of >April - Upper Galilee - Shomron Mts. (Tel >Hatzor). Iris bismarckiana - March - Upper & >Lower Galilee (Dishon gorge, Givat Hamore). Iris >hermona - mid March - Central Golan Heights >(Mapalim crossroad). Iris atrofusca - mid March >to April - South Golan, Gilead Mts. Mts., >Shomron & Judea deserts, Arad to Beer Sheva (Tel >Arad, Haon escarpment). Iris haynei - March - >Gilboa (Gilboa - Mt. Barkan). Barkan). Iris >atropurpurea - mid January to February - Coastal >plain (Nes Ziona, Netanya Iris reserve). Iris >bostrensis - Second half of March - North Jordan >(Ramtha to Mafraq). Iris nigricans - April - >Moab Mts., Jordan (East to Kerak). Iris petrana >- April-March - Edom (Jordan); North Negev, >Yerucham to Dimona (Dana Nature reserve, >Yerucham Iris reserve). Iris mariae - Beginning >of March - Sand dunes of the Western Negev (Agur >dunes, Kibutz Magen).Agur dunes, Kibutz Magen). >Although many taxonomists dealt with this >section in the last 120 years, no quantitative research was ............. etc. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From dejager@bulbargence.com Tue Apr 29 09:17:54 2008 Message-Id: From: Lauw de Jager Subject: Report on Sprekelias Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:17:26 +0200 Dear All, About amonth a go Mary Sue transmitted an appeal for 6000 Sprekelia flowers. I followed it up with Spaniards from Santiago de Compostela. After looking through Europe (and Isreal) 3000 bulbs have now been planted here. Awaiting the flowers impatiently for the end of May, which will be used to welcome the pilgrims on the famous trail which leads to Santiago. To explain the relation here is a little extract of some thoughts Karl King in March 2002: " Among the many subjects I don't know much about, Medieval heraldry is one. If someone out there can help me solve a little mystery, I will be most appreciative. Simon de Tovar provided the first (that I know of) European description of a Sprekelia in a letter to his friend Clusius. He compared the tepals of the flower to the blades of the sword emblems of the St. Jacob knights". I just hope thre will be ful flowering on the 30th of May when the Pilgrims gather in Toulouse. Many thanks to Mary Sue for ging thi lead Kind greetings -- Lauw de Jager Bulb'Argence South of France (zone 9 (olive trees) emailto: dejager@bulbargence.com Site www.bulbargence.com From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Tue Apr 29 09:44:36 2008 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A0BA4A8B0@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Bulbs for your own climate Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:45:34 -0500 Hi Mary Sue: I like your idea of profiling 10 bulbs that reliably come back when planted in the ground. Regardless of level of expertise it is something we could all participate in and I think could provide some very interesting results. Many thanks for all of your efforts! Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel: 847-835-6841 fax: 847-835-1635 email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org From msittner@mcn.org Tue Apr 29 10:19:47 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080429063915.035e0d28@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: : carefree garden bulbs Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:50:43 -0700 The term "bulbs" in this definition is inclusive. Lists can include geophytes, as well as plants with corms, rhizomes, tubers, tuberous roots, not just bulbs. We've discussed on this list a lot what exactly can be included as our subject and we've never come up with an exact definition. There always seem to be exceptions. Some plants we talk about aren't really geophytes since they are evergreen. We have chosen to allow flexibility about this. Mary Sue From rpries@sbcglobal.net Tue Apr 29 09:51:11 2008 Message-Id: <543968.66084.qm@web81905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Robt R Pries Subject: More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:51:06 -0700 (PDT) Luc; If you are looking for more information on Aril Iris Species go to the Aril Society International (ASI) website and you will see lots of pictures. My friend Yuval Sapir and Ori Fragman did much of the work that you are citing on Royal Irises. Yuval I believe is currently working in the USA on pollination by bees. He has been doing several post Docs and I forget now whether he is in California or Indiana. The ASI produces a beautiful yearbook the size of Herbertia but with more pictures. I have lots of information on Arils but I am under the gun to get everything packed for my big move. I can only do short messages until maybe July. Best Wishes, Bob --- lucgbulot@aol.com wrote: > > Hi all, > > I have been searching the web for more information > on the Oncocyclus of Israël and Lebanon. Here is a > summary of what I found. > > The Iris section Oncocyclus comprise 10 species in > Israel and Jordan (see list below), all endemic with > limited and distinct populations. > > In 1998, the Royal Iris project sponsored by the DFG > and common to Mainz University in Germany, The > Hebrew University in Israel and Bethlehem University > in the Palestinian Authority aimed to reinforce the > connections between three nations, in addition to > the conservation targets. The project had four > goals: recording and conservation of all populations > in Israel, monitoring population dynamics, > systematic reviewing and pollination ecology > research. > > The main objective was to discover the relationship > between the Royal Irises’ special characters: > solitary giant flower, no nectar reward, dark > colour, and male bees lodging. The Royal Irises are > known as the first priority for conservation in > Israel. As a result the following species were > studied. For each species, the flowering period is > listed, followed by the distribution and > in parenthesis the best place to see wild > populations. >     > Iris lortetii - Beginning of April - Upper Galilee - > Shomron Mts. (Tel Hatzor). > > > > Iris bismarckiana - March - Upper & Lower Galilee > (Dishon gorge, Givat Hamore). > > > > Iris hermona - mid March - Central Golan Heights > (Mapalim crossroad). > > > > Iris atrofusca - mid March to April - South Golan, > Gilead Mts. Mts., Shomron & Judea deserts, Arad to > Beer Sheva > (Tel Arad, Haon escarpment). > > > > Iris haynei - March - Gilboa (Gilboa - Mt. Barkan). > Barkan). > > > Iris atropurpurea - mid January to February - > Coastal plain (Nes Ziona, Netanya Iris reserve). > > > > Iris bostrensis - Second half of March - North > Jordan (Ramtha to Mafraq). > > > > Iris nigricans - April - Moab Mts., Jordan (East to > Kerak). > > > > Iris petrana - April-March - Edom (Jordan); North > Negev, Yerucham to Dimona (Dana Nature reserve, > Yerucham Iris reserve). > > > > Iris mariae - Beginning of March - Sand dunes of the > Western Negev (Agur dunes, Kibutz Magen).Agur dunes, > Kibutz Magen). > > > Although many taxonomists dealt with this section in > the last 120 years, no quantitative research was > held. Many transition forms between species or > populations are known from the field. The project's > purpose was to examine the speciation trends in the > Royal Irises, and connect eco-geographic conditions > with morphologic and genetic variance. The research > conducted in 1998 revealed that the morphological > traits changed along the eco-geographical > North-South gradient: flower size, stem height and > leaf characters change along the aridity gradient. > The results suggesting that the Royal Irises should > merge into four morpho-species: Iris lortetii, Iris > Bismarckiana (include I. hermona), Iris haynei > (include I. atrofusca, I. atropurpurea and I. > petrana) and Iris mariae. > > Details are to be found in : > > > Arafeh R.M.H., Sapir Y., Shmida A., Iraki N., > Fragman O., Comes H.P. 2002. Patterns of genetic and > phenotypic variation in Iris haynei and I. atrofusca > (Iris sect. Oncocyclus the Royal Irises) along an > environmental gradient in Israel and the West Bank. > Molecular Ecology 11: 39–53. > > > Sapir, Y., A. Shmida, O. Fragman and H. P. Comes. > 2002. Morphological variation of the Oncocyclus > Irises in the southern Levant. Botanical Journal of > the Linnean Society. 139: 369-382. > > If anybody is interested I have a pdf copy of that > paper... > > Hope this will help the Iris maniacs... > > Luc > > > Arafeh R.M.H., Sapir Y., Shmida A., Iraki N., > Fragman O., Comes H.P. 2002. Patterns of genetic and > phenotypic variation in Iris haynei and I. atrofusca > (Iris sect. Oncocyclus the Royal Irises) along an > environmental gradient in Israel and the West Bank. > Molecular Ecology 11: 39–53. > > > Sapir, Y., A. Shmida, O. Fragman and H. P. Comes. > 2002. Morphological variation of the Oncocyclus > Irises in the southern Levant. Botanical Journal of > the Linnean Society. 139: 369-382. > > If anybody is interested I have a pdf copy of that > paper... > > Hope this will help the Iris maniacs... > > Luc > > > > > > Iris atropurpurea - mid January to February - > Coastal plain (Nes Ziona, Netanya Iris reserve). > > > > Iris bostrensis - Second half of March - North > Jordan (Ramtha to Mafraq). > > > > Iris nigricans - April - Moab Mts., Jordan (East to > Kerak). > > > > Iris petrana - April-March - Edom (Jordan); North > Negev, Yerucham to Dimona (Dana Nature reserve, > Yerucham Iris reserve). > > > > Iris mariae - Beginning of March - Sand dunes of the > Western Negev (Agur dunes, Kibutz Magen).Agur dunes, > Kibutz Magen). > > > Although many taxonomists dealt with this section in > the last 120 years, no quantitative research was > held. Many transition forms between species or > populations are known from the field. The project's > purpose was to examine the speciation trends in the > Royal Irises, and connect eco-geographic conditions > with morphologic and genetic variance. The research > conducted in 1998 revealed that the morphological > traits changed along the eco-geographical > North-South gradient: flower size, stem height and > leaf characters change along the aridity gradient. > The results suggesting that the Royal Irises should > merge into four morpho-species: Iris lortetii, Iris > Bismarckiana (include I. hermona), Iris haynei > (include I. atrofusca, I. atropurpurea and I. > petrana) and Iris mariae. > > Details are to be found in : > > > Arafeh R.M.H., Sapir Y., Shmida A., Iraki N., > Fragman O., Comes H.P. 2002. Patterns of genetic and > phenotypic variation in Iris haynei and I. atrofusca > (Iris sect. Oncocyclus the Royal Irises) along an > environmental gradient in Israel and the West Bank. > Molecular === message truncated === From msittner@mcn.org Tue Apr 29 10:26:52 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080429065911.035ebdb8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: PBS list formatting Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:22:31 -0700 Hi, Like Paul I received Luc's message in one big paragraph which I agree stops you from wanting to read it. There are a couple of people's posts that arrive that way for me. I'm not sure what to do about it. When Susan and I were working together on the list and the wiki we discovered that what she received for a list message on her Mac was very different from what I received on my PC. All the messages are supposed to be sent in text. Html is stripped which is why some messages come in blank so I don't know why they should look different on different computers. I receive messages that come into my email program as html (formatted with different fonts, colors, embedded images) just fine. Jim McKenney's sometimes have big spaces between the paragraphs, but not always. That is easier to cope with than a jumble of words. I've often wondered also why in the archives to read some messages you have to scroll and to read others you don't. I expect all email programs are a little different and what is sent out therefore is different as well as what is received. Luc's message in the archives is not compressed and in fact it has multiple spaces and you have to scroll to read it. At least that's how it looks on my computer. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2008-April/030575.html Paul, if it is a message you really want to see and it comes in to your computer in a strange way, you may be able to read it in the archives (which are referenced in every message so you can easily find them.) In my email program I can edit messages I have received so it is possible to go to the archives, copy the message and paste it into the message to substitute for that one long paragraph so it can be more easily read. And once again PLEASE DO NOT INCLUDE THE ENTIRE PREVIOUS MESSAGE in your responses. I don't suppose shouting will make any difference, but for digest subscribers including the previous messages makes it really difficult to find the new messages. Mary Sue PBS list administrator From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Apr 29 10:40:17 2008 Message-Id: <000301c8aa07$3b2877e0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:42:19 -0400 Luc, do those papers give any thoughts about the origin of Iris susiana? I’ve read that it has never been found truly wild; and I think the cultivated material is evidently clonal (with at least two clones). Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where if the sun comes out Iris hoogiana should open. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From rpries@sbcglobal.net Tue Apr 29 10:46:29 2008 Message-Id: <490380.46807.qm@web81901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Robt R Pries Subject: PBS list formatting Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:46:23 -0700 (PDT) I am on several lists; Recently one of them had a discussion about deleting previous messages before replying to them so as to aid digest subscribers. It turned out that only a few people subscribed to digest versions and the discussion revealed that the original reasons for having digests were really not that beneficial anymore with advances in the technology. Of course those used to digests did not always see it that way. On the other hand non digest users often found that posts that were replys to messages often made no sense unless the original message was attached. On that list it was decided to keep the original message in the reply althought that does not mean one needs to continue a whole stream of messages. It appears that what is curtesy to one group is an afront to another. I don't think there is any answer to this. From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Apr 29 10:48:25 2008 Message-Id: <85E6437C-2F70-4769-850C-2855C681D04F@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: PBS list formatting Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:47:52 -0700 I have found an easy way to read emails that are difficult for me to read. Usually they are html messages with tiny font. I click on "Reply". My email program includes the message in a reply, and shows it in a font that I can read comfortably. I don't actually send the reply, just use it to read the message. This might work also for run- on messages. Diane From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Apr 29 10:49:05 2008 Message-Id: <000701c8aa08$7d7f8ab0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: PBS list formatting Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:51:17 -0400 Mary Sue wrote: “Jim McKenney's sometimes have big spaces between the paragraphs, but not always.” That’s funny because I’ve often wondered what you are doing to my postings! They don’t look that way on this end. My email system defaults to HTML; as a result, I generally compose in HTML and usually (but not always) remember to convert to plain text before sending. This message, for instance, was composed in HTML and then converted. There are single spaces between paragraphs and the signature block. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From msittner@mcn.org Tue Apr 29 11:09:43 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080429080028.031c3138@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Including the entire message, was pbs list formatting Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:09:22 -0700 Hi, Our list has 260 regular subscribers and 194 digest subscribers so we have more than just a few digest subscribers. I've heard from many of our digest subscribers that they don't want to receive a lot of messages and that is why they choose the digest to bundle their messages instead of getting one at a time. Technological advances wouldn't change this reason for getting a digest. When the entire previous message is included, besides making it difficult to read, more digests are triggered. It is permissible to leave a line or two from the previous message you are responding to if you think it is necessary. Mary Sue From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Tue Apr 29 11:13:08 2008 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A0BA4AA37@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: carefree garden bulbs Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:14:06 -0500 I've modified Diane's season descriptions slightly to reflect our continental climate in Chicago, Illinois. Climate change has flipped on us so far this year, providing a very cold and snowy winter and a very late (and snowy) spring. Yesterday we experienced snow flurries for about 1.5 hours and temperatures last night dropped to 31 degrees F. Fortunately most of the spring geophytes are hardy folks and the flowers survive down to the mid-20 degrees F. Early and midseason bulbs came into flower simultaneously this spring - providing for breathtaking displays. Winter: November to March We read with envy of the geophytes blooming in other parts of the world. Still in all, the reports help keep the faith that spring really is on the way. Spring: March, April and May Galanthus elwesii - one of the earliest reliable bulbs in our area. During a really mild fall we had a few that flowered in October/November but that was a very unusual year. Merendera trigyna - this accession originated from a Georgian collection in 2000 and has proven to be reliable near the edge of a raised bed in the Chicago area - definitely winter hardy. Delightful small pink-lite purple flowers. Scilla sibirica - nothing beats this blue color in spring! It reseeds in cultivated areas but is not invasive of natural habitats. Crocus tommasinianus - the only Crocus to survive long term in this climate; it slowly increases by division and reseeding. A week of just above freezing winds unfortunately zapped the display this spring. Eremurus - the foxtail lilies have proven reliable over the last 7 years - and we have experienced some significant environmental conditions during this time frame. Slow to reseed, the original plants are slowly increasing in number of spikes. Narcissus - Division 1, 2 and 3 are all reliable over the long term. Summer: June to August Iris sibirica 'Caesars Brother' Deep blue (purple) color and more reliable in the long term than some of the other cultivars sporting other colors. Bearded iris - miniature, intermediate and tall bearded iris all survive here long term. Iris borers are a serious pest but avoiding monocultures of bearded iris seems to provide long term success. Lycoris squamigera - the other species are very nice but none of them have the history of long term survival of this taxon. Clumps slowly expand over time and the displays just keep getting better. Fall: September and October The species and cultivars of Colchicum provide the most reliable bloom in the Chicago region in Fall. Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel: 847-835-6841 fax: 847-835-1635 email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org From jshields@indy.net Tue Apr 29 11:33:23 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080429112831.027c6610@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:33:27 -0400 A note on human nature. So often we are told to look at a particular web site. If the URL is not right there in the message, there is not one instance out of 1000 where I will take the time to go to Google to find it. On the other had, if you give the link right there in your message, 9 times out of 10 I will in fact look at it. It seems like such a little thing, but in retrospect I see that it makes a huge difference. Jim Shields in central Indiana At 06:51 AM 4/29/2008 -0700, you wrote: >If you are looking for more information on Aril Iris >Species go to the Aril Society International (ASI) >website and you will see lots of pictures. >..... ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From LucGBulot@aol.com Tue Apr 29 11:35:55 2008 Message-Id: <8CA7825CEE9B6E8-49C-16C3@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Iris susiana Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:35:38 -0400 Dear Jim, No there is not a single word about Iris susiana in those papers. From what I know Iris susiana has been for long in cultivation in Turkey. According to Mathew it bears a great resemblace to iris sofarana and Iris basaltica and may be a form of one of these. They seem to be some more information in the following paper : Avishai?M. &?Zohary D. 1980. Genetic affinities among the Oncocyclus irises. Botanical Gazette, Vol. 141, No. 1, pp. 107-115 but I have not purchased that paper yet. I will carry on searching for more info and let you know. Luc From LucGBulot@aol.com Tue Apr 29 12:13:23 2008 Message-Id: <8CA782AAC9B83BA-49C-19BD@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: Aril Society International and miscellaneous Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:10:28 -0400 Thanks for the imput Bob... I have also been in contact with Yuval Sapir and Ori Fragman and learned a lot from them. As far as know Yuval is not at Indiana University anymore and his homepage there does not work anymore... For those interested the Aril Society Website is : www.arilsociety.org (I plan to join this year)... Looking more closely to references on Iris bismarkiana, I found the following one: Sapir, Y., A. Shmida and H. P. Comes. 2001. Iris bismarckiana in Israel and Jordan - new findings and taxonomic remarks. Israel Journal of Plant Sciences 49(3):229-235 If anybody has access to this paper I will be most happy to get a copy... pdf or paper... Luc From xerantheum@gmail.com Tue Apr 29 12:20:31 2008 Message-Id: From: "Nhu Nguyen" Subject: PBS list formatting Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:13:43 -0700 On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:22 AM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Hi, > > ...When Susan and I > were working together on the list and the wiki we discovered that what she > received for a list message on her Mac was very different from what I > received on my PC... Mary Sue, Just a tidbit on that issue. Once again we are dealing with the nasty issue of Mac/PC conversion. I have noticed the same problem when dealing with text. Turns out that the two operating systems use different line formatting. When you hit enter once in a Mac, it makes a new line, but PCs read it as two enters. I am not sure if the newer versions of Macs have solved this problem. It gets frustrating when they can't even standardize something as simple as plain text. Nhu From kellso@irvincentral.com Tue Apr 29 12:34:14 2008 Message-Id: <48174DF9.9090902@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: PBS list formatting Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:34:01 -0500 Nhu: In the case of Luc's post, the formatting came through fine on my Mac. I would stab a guess at variation by how the various HTML email editors create paragraph breaks, which can be with

or

, then how that gets messed with by the server and/or our own personal machines. I would think the best advice, until we know otherwise, would be for people to choose in their preferences to format e-mail with HTML and plain text, if they generally like to format in HTML. This way, the server should (I think) choose the plain text version which is hidden in the message. --Kelly P.S. Just a speculation. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ Nhu Nguyen wrote: > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:22 AM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > > >> Hi, >> >> ...When Susan and I >> were working together on the list and the wiki we discovered that what she >> received for a list message on her Mac was very different from what I >> received on my PC... From rpries@sbcglobal.net Tue Apr 29 13:16:39 2008 Message-Id: <484685.85529.qm@web81907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Robt R Pries Subject: More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:16:32 -0700 (PDT) Sorry for not including the Aril Society wesite; it is http://www.arilsociety.org/arilsociety.pl?index I no doubt miss a few e-mails and send others quickly since i am going crazy packing. From LucGBulot@aol.com Tue Apr 29 14:01:56 2008 Message-Id: <8CA783A351C62E4-49C-236C@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: : carefree garden bulbs Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:01:40 -0400 Hi, Took me quite a while about the final choice... but here it goes... December to February: Iris unguicularis - the first of my Iris to bloom... In mild winter like this year it seems that the blooming period is endless. March to early April: Tulipa linifolia, Tulipa vvedenskyi, Fritillaria ulva-vulpis, Iris taochia and Iris bucharica. late April to early May: Iris pumilla, Tulipa bakeri 'Lilac Wonder', Tulipa batalini and Tulipa chrysantha end May to June: Lilium candidum. July to August: Lilium henryi and?Lilium regale. September: Cyclamen cilicium, Cyclamen heredifolium and Colchicum cilicium. October to November: Nerine undulata. I could add many more but wanted to restrict to the "improved" one... Luc?in Orgon - South East France - Zone 8a/b - "cold" mediterranean climate From maxwithers@gmail.com Tue Apr 29 14:07:05 2008 Message-Id: <481763BE.7060907@gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: Archives, Iris bismarkiana, formatting Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:06:54 -0700 1. I've just spent over an hour in the March 2003 archives, learning about virus, Lachenalia in the ground in California, and summer watering of dormant bulbs, among other things. What a fantastic resource. 2. Luc, the abstract of the Iris bismarkiana article you mentioned is here: http://www.sciencefromisrael.com/openurl.asp?genre=article&id=doi:10.1560/FD4U-YWEK-XECA-N6GH Full text is available for $12, if no one has a subscription. If you don't feel like paying, the relevant point is revealed by the abstract: "Populations of I. hermona and I. bismarckiana in Jordan and Israel do not differ statistically from each other in morphological traits, and should not be treated as two independent species." 3. Problems with email formatting are caused by different character encodings, which are now an email client issue, not an operating system issue. Probably the mailserver can only handle 7-bit encodings, and someone is sending 8-bit. Although a nuisance, it could be much worse, as evidenced by by the recent tragic death of two people in Turkey because of encoding limitations in text messages: http://gizmodo.com/382026/a-cellphones-missing-dot-kills-two-people-puts-three-more-in-jail Best, Max Withers Oakland From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Tue Apr 29 14:44:31 2008 Message-Id: <28827865.2037221209494669358.JavaMail.www@wwinf1c04> From: Mark BROWN Subject: More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:44:29 +0200 (CEST) I got it repeated four times! > Message du 29/04/08 13:48 > De : "Paul T." > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [pbs] More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan > > Luc, > > I am not sure whether it is just me or not, but > your last message (which I think would be of > interest to me) came through as one huge > paragraph, making it nearly impossible to > read. I don't know if it is a formatting problem > or not, but I do seem to from time to time have > this happen with your postings (which is a shame > as they're often so informative). Am I the only one that has this problem? > > Thanks. > > Cheers. > > Paul Tyerman > Canberra, Australia. > > At 09:40 PM 29/04/2008, you wrote: > >Hi all, I have been searching the web for more > >information on the Oncocyclus of Israël and > >Lebanon. Here is a summary of what I found. The > >Iris section Oncocyclus comprise 10 species in > >Israel and Jordan (see list below), all endemic > >with limited and distinct populations. In 1998, > >the Royal Iris project sponsored by the DFG and > >common to Mainz University in Germany, The > >Hebrew University in Israel and Bethlehem > >University in the Palestinian Authority aimed to > >reinforce the connections between three nations, > >in addition to the conservation targets. The > >project had four goals: recording and > >conservation of all populations in Israel, > >monitoring population dynamics, systematic > >reviewing and pollination ecology research. The > >main objective was to discover the relationship > >between the Royal Irises’ special characters: > >solitary giant flower, no nectar reward, dark > >colour, and male bees lodging. The Royal Irises > >are known as the first priority for conservation > >in Israel. As a result the following species > >were studied. For each species, the flowering > >period is listed, followed by the distribution > >and in parenthesis the best place to see wild > >populations.    Iris lortetii - Beginning of > >April - Upper Galilee - Shomron Mts. (Tel > >Hatzor). Iris bismarckiana - March - Upper & > >Lower Galilee (Dishon gorge, Givat Hamore). Iris > >hermona - mid March - Central Golan Heights > >(Mapalim crossroad). Iris atrofusca - mid March > >to April - South Golan, Gilead Mts. Mts., > >Shomron & Judea deserts, Arad to Beer Sheva (Tel > >Arad, Haon escarpment). Iris haynei - March - > >Gilboa (Gilboa - Mt. Barkan). Barkan). Iris > >atropurpurea - mid January to February - Coastal > >plain (Nes Ziona, Netanya Iris reserve). Iris > >bostrensis - Second half of March - North Jordan > >(Ramtha to Mafraq). Iris nigricans - April - > >Moab Mts., Jordan (East to Kerak). Iris petrana > >- April-March - Edom (Jordan); North Negev, > >Yerucham to Dimona (Dana Nature reserve, > >Yerucham Iris reserve). Iris mariae - Beginning > >of March - Sand dunes of the Western Negev (Agur > >dunes, Kibutz Magen).Agur dunes, Kibutz Magen). > >Although many taxonomists dealt with this > >section in the last 120 years, no quantitative research was > ............. etc. > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Tue Apr 29 14:55:36 2008 Message-Id: <13009288.2041411209495331295.JavaMail.www@wwinf1c04> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Including the entire message, was pbs list formatting Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:55:31 +0200 (CEST) Dear Mary Sue, I will edit previous messages then if you think iy really makes things easier. Many thanks, Mark > Message du 29/04/08 17:09 > De : "Mary Sue Ittner" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] Including the entire message, was pbs list formatting > > "It is permissible to leave a > line or two from the previous message you are responding to if you think it > is necessary." > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From auchgourishgardens@falsyde.sol.co.uk Tue Apr 29 17:40:24 2008 Message-Id: <025e01c8aa41$97c9f390$0501a8c0@homepc> From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 63, Issue 33 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:40:07 +0100 LIST FORMATTING. When I read what you folk say about formatting issues and the associated technical "stuff" I am awareof two important things as follows : - [a] just how 'thick' technologically I am, a subject of great despair to one of my daughters and here uber highly paid husband who writes code in double didgit number languages and earns telephone numebrs as a consequence; and [b] just how glad I am to be able to grow plants we share common interest with which means this retarded Highlander can continue to move in exalted circles by association and LIFE DOESN'T SEEM SO BAD. The latter [b] never the less proves a refuge from the technological world. I too get weird versions of the messages posted comming in on my PC and I even get messages posted in reply to earlier postings which have never arrived here. Now THAT is clever! but I am none the wiser, and it has to be said, if ignorance be truly bliss then I must be a happy man. In awe of the clever technological wizzards on PBS. Iain PS. Spring has arisen, we have had three days on the trot without frost, praise the Lord and pass the whisky..... please note the correct spelling of 'whisky', hic! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 6:16 PM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 63, Issue 33 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Re : carefree garden bulbs (Mary Sue Ittner) > 2. PBS list formatting (Mary Sue Ittner) > 3. Re: More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan (Jim McKenney) > 4. Re: PBS list formatting (Robt R Pries) > 5. Re: PBS list formatting (Diane Whitehead) > 6. Re: PBS list formatting (Jim McKenney) > 7. Including the entire message, was pbs list formatting > (Mary Sue Ittner) > 8. Re: carefree garden bulbs (Boyce Tankersley) > 9. Re: More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan (J.E. Shields) > 10. Iris susiana (lucgbulot@aol.com) > 11. Aril Society International and miscellaneous (lucgbulot@aol.com) > 12. Re: PBS list formatting (Nhu Nguyen) > 13. Re: PBS list formatting (Kelly Irvin) > 14. Re: More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan (Robt R Pries) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:50:43 -0700 > From: Mary Sue Ittner > Subject: Re: [pbs] Re : carefree garden bulbs > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20080429063915.035e0d28@mail.mcn.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > The term "bulbs" in this definition is inclusive. Lists can include > geophytes, as well as plants with corms, rhizomes, tubers, tuberous roots, > not just bulbs. We've discussed on this list a lot what exactly can be > included as our subject and we've never come up with an exact definition. > There always seem to be exceptions. Some plants we talk about aren't > really > geophytes since they are evergreen. We have chosen to allow flexibility > about this. > > Mary Sue > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:22:31 -0700 > From: Mary Sue Ittner > Subject: [pbs] PBS list formatting > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20080429065911.035ebdb8@mail.mcn.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Hi, > > Like Paul I received Luc's message in one big paragraph which I agree > stops > you from wanting to read it. There are a couple of people's posts that > arrive that way for me. I'm not sure what to do about it. When Susan and I > were working together on the list and the wiki we discovered that what she > received for a list message on her Mac was very different from what I > received on my PC. All the messages are supposed to be sent in text. Html > is stripped which is why some messages come in blank so I don't know why > they should look different on different computers. I receive messages that > come into my email program as html (formatted with different fonts, > colors, > embedded images) just fine. Jim McKenney's sometimes have big spaces > between the paragraphs, but not always. That is easier to cope with than a > jumble of words. I've often wondered also why in the archives to read some > messages you have to scroll and to read others you don't. I expect all > email programs are a little different and what is sent out therefore is > different as well as what is received. > > Luc's message in the archives is not compressed and in fact it has > multiple > spaces and you have to scroll to read it. At least that's how it looks on > my computer. > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2008-April/030575.html > > Paul, if it is a message you really want to see and it comes in to your > computer in a strange way, you may be able to read it in the archives > (which are referenced in every message so you can easily find them.) > > In my email program I can edit messages I have received so it is possible > to go to the archives, copy the message and paste it into the message to > substitute for that one long paragraph so it can be more easily read. > > And once again PLEASE DO NOT INCLUDE THE ENTIRE PREVIOUS MESSAGE in your > responses. I don't suppose shouting will make any difference, but for > digest subscribers including the previous messages makes it really > difficult to find the new messages. > > Mary Sue > PBS list administrator > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:42:19 -0400 > From: "Jim McKenney" > Subject: Re: [pbs] More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" > Message-ID: <000301c8aa07$3b2877e0$2f01a8c0@Library> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Luc, do those papers give any thoughts about the origin of Iris susiana? > > I?ve read that it has never been found truly wild; and I think the > cultivated material is evidently clonal (with at least two clones). > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA > zone > 7, where if the sun comes out Iris hoogiana should open. > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:46:23 -0700 (PDT) > From: Robt R Pries > Subject: Re: [pbs] PBS list formatting > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <490380.46807.qm@web81901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > I am on several lists; Recently one of them had a > discussion about deleting previous messages before > replying to them so as to aid digest subscribers. It > turned out that only a few people subscribed to digest > versions and the discussion revealed that the original > reasons for having digests were really not that > beneficial anymore with advances in the technology. Of > course those used to digests did not always see it > that way. On the other hand non digest users often > found that posts that were replys to messages often > made no sense unless the original message was > attached. On that list it was decided to keep the > original message in the reply althought that does not > mean one needs to continue a whole stream of messages. > It appears that what is curtesy to one group is an > afront to another. I don't think there is any answer > to this. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:47:52 -0700 > From: Diane Whitehead > Subject: Re: [pbs] PBS list formatting > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <85E6437C-2F70-4769-850C-2855C681D04F@islandnet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > I have found an easy way to read emails that are difficult for me to > read. Usually they are html messages with tiny font. I click on > "Reply". My email program includes the message in a reply, and shows > it in a font that I can read comfortably. I don't actually send the > reply, just use it to read the message. This might work also for run- > on messages. > > Diane > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:51:17 -0400 > From: "Jim McKenney" > Subject: Re: [pbs] PBS list formatting > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" > Message-ID: <000701c8aa08$7d7f8ab0$2f01a8c0@Library> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Mary Sue wrote: ?Jim McKenney's sometimes have big spaces > between the paragraphs, but not always.? > > That?s funny because I?ve often wondered what you are doing to my > postings! > They don?t look that way on this end. > > My email system defaults to HTML; as a result, I generally compose in HTML > and usually (but not always) remember to convert to plain text before > sending. > This message, for instance, was composed in HTML and then converted. There > are single spaces between paragraphs and the signature block. > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA > zone > 7 > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:09:22 -0700 > From: Mary Sue Ittner > Subject: [pbs] Including the entire message, was pbs list formatting > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20080429080028.031c3138@mail.mcn.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Hi, > > Our list has 260 regular subscribers and 194 digest subscribers so we have > more than just a few digest subscribers. I've heard from many of our > digest > subscribers that they don't want to receive a lot of messages and that is > why they choose the digest to bundle their messages instead of getting one > at a time. Technological advances wouldn't change this reason for getting > a > digest. When the entire previous message is included, besides making it > difficult to read, more digests are triggered. It is permissible to leave > a > line or two from the previous message you are responding to if you think > it > is necessary. > > Mary Sue > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:14:06 -0500 > From: "Boyce Tankersley" > Subject: Re: [pbs] carefree garden bulbs > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Message-ID: > <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A0BA4AA37@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I've modified Diane's season descriptions slightly to reflect our > continental climate in Chicago, Illinois. > > Climate change has flipped on us so far this year, providing a very cold > and snowy winter and a very late (and snowy) spring. Yesterday we > experienced snow flurries for about 1.5 hours and temperatures last > night dropped to 31 degrees F. > > Fortunately most of the spring geophytes are hardy folks and the flowers > survive down to the mid-20 degrees F. Early and midseason bulbs came > into flower simultaneously this spring - providing for breathtaking > displays. > > Winter: November to March > > We read with envy of the geophytes blooming in other parts of the world. > Still in all, the reports help keep the faith that spring really is on > the way. > > Spring: March, April and May > > Galanthus elwesii - one of the earliest reliable bulbs in our area. > During a really mild fall we had a few that flowered in October/November > but that was a very unusual year. > > Merendera trigyna - this accession originated from a Georgian collection > in 2000 and has proven to be reliable near the edge of a raised bed in > the Chicago area - definitely winter hardy. Delightful small pink-lite > purple flowers. > > Scilla sibirica - nothing beats this blue color in spring! It reseeds in > cultivated areas but is not invasive of natural habitats. > > Crocus tommasinianus - the only Crocus to survive long term in this > climate; it slowly increases by division and reseeding. A week of just > above freezing winds unfortunately zapped the display this spring. > > Eremurus - the foxtail lilies have proven reliable over the last 7 years > - and we have experienced some significant environmental conditions > during this time frame. Slow to reseed, the original plants are slowly > increasing in number of spikes. > > Narcissus - Division 1, 2 and 3 are all reliable over the long term. > > Summer: June to August > > Iris sibirica 'Caesars Brother' Deep blue (purple) color and more > reliable in the long term than some of the other cultivars sporting > other colors. > > Bearded iris - miniature, intermediate and tall bearded iris all survive > here long term. Iris borers are a serious pest but avoiding monocultures > of bearded iris seems to provide long term success. > > Lycoris squamigera - the other species are very nice but none of them > have the history of long term survival of this taxon. Clumps slowly > expand over time and the displays just keep getting better. > > Fall: September and October > > The species and cultivars of Colchicum provide the most reliable bloom > in the Chicago region in Fall. > > Boyce Tankersley > Director of Living Plant Documentation > Chicago Botanic Garden > 1000 Lake Cook Road > Glencoe, IL 60022 > tel: 847-835-6841 > fax: 847-835-1635 > email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:33:27 -0400 > From: "J.E. Shields" > Subject: Re: [pbs] More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20080429112831.027c6610@pop.indy.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > A note on human nature. So often we are told to look at a particular web > site. If the URL is not right there in the message, there is not one > instance out of 1000 where I will take the time to go to Google to find > it. > > On the other had, if you give the link right there in your message, 9 > times > out of 10 I will in fact look at it. It seems like such a little thing, > but in retrospect I see that it makes a huge difference. > > Jim Shields > in central Indiana > > At 06:51 AM 4/29/2008 -0700, you wrote: > > >>If you are looking for more information on Aril Iris >>Species go to the Aril Society International (ASI) >>website and you will see lots of pictures. >>..... > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:35:38 -0400 > From: lucgbulot@aol.com > Subject: [pbs] Iris susiana > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <8CA7825CEE9B6E8-49C-16C3@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > > > Dear Jim, > > No there is not a single word about Iris susiana in those papers. From > what I know Iris susiana has been for long in cultivation in Turkey. > According to Mathew it bears a great resemblace to iris sofarana and Iris > basaltica and may be a form of one of these. > > They seem to be some more information in the following paper : Avishai?M. > &?Zohary D. 1980. Genetic affinities among the Oncocyclus irises. > Botanical Gazette, Vol. 141, No. 1, pp. 107-115 but I have not purchased > that paper yet. > > I will carry on searching for more info and let you know. > > Luc > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:10:28 -0400 > From: lucgbulot@aol.com > Subject: [pbs] Aril Society International and miscellaneous > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <8CA782AAC9B83BA-49C-19BD@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Thanks for the imput Bob... > > I have also been in contact with Yuval Sapir and Ori Fragman and learned a > lot from them. As far as know Yuval is not at Indiana University anymore > and his homepage there does not work anymore... > > For those interested the Aril Society Website is : www.arilsociety.org (I > plan to join this year)... > > Looking more closely to references on Iris bismarkiana, I found the > following one: > > Sapir, Y., A. Shmida and H. P. Comes. 2001. Iris bismarckiana in Israel > and Jordan - new findings and taxonomic remarks. Israel Journal of Plant > Sciences 49(3):229-235 > > If anybody has access to this paper I will be most happy to get a copy... > pdf or paper... > > Luc > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:13:43 -0700 > From: "Nhu Nguyen" > Subject: Re: [pbs] PBS list formatting > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:22 AM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> ...When Susan and I >> were working together on the list and the wiki we discovered that what >> she >> received for a list message on her Mac was very different from what I >> received on my PC... > > > Mary Sue, > > Just a tidbit on that issue. Once again we are dealing with the nasty > issue > of Mac/PC conversion. I have noticed the same problem when dealing with > text. Turns out that the two operating systems use different line > formatting. When you hit enter once in a Mac, it makes a new line, but PCs > read it as two enters. I am not sure if the newer versions of Macs have > solved this problem. It gets frustrating when they can't even standardize > something as simple as plain text. > > Nhu > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:34:01 -0500 > From: Kelly Irvin > Subject: Re: [pbs] PBS list formatting > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <48174DF9.9090902@irvincentral.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Nhu: > > In the case of Luc's post, the formatting came through fine on my Mac. I > would stab a guess at variation by how the various HTML email editors > create paragraph breaks, which can be with

or

, then how > that gets messed with by the server and/or our own personal machines. I > would think the best advice, until we know otherwise, would be for > people to choose in their preferences to format e-mail with HTML and > plain text, if they generally like to format in HTML. This way, the > server should (I think) choose the plain text version which is hidden in > the message. --Kelly > > P.S. Just a speculation. > > Mr. Kelly M. Irvin > 10850 Hodge Ln > Gravette, AR 72736 > USA > 479-787-9958 > USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b > > http://www.irvincentral.com/ > > > Nhu Nguyen wrote: >> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:22 AM, Mary Sue Ittner >> wrote: >> >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> ...When Susan and I >>> were working together on the list and the wiki we discovered that what >>> she >>> received for a list message on her Mac was very different from what I >>> received on my PC... > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:16:32 -0700 (PDT) > From: Robt R Pries > Subject: Re: [pbs] More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <484685.85529.qm@web81907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Sorry for not including the Aril Society wesite; it > is http://www.arilsociety.org/arilsociety.pl?index I > no doubt miss a few e-mails and send others quickly > since i am going crazy packing. > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 63, Issue 33 > *********************************** From leo@possi.org Tue Apr 29 20:50:58 2008 Message-Id: <29968.209.180.132.162.1209516636.squirrel@possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Boophane disticha Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:50:36 -0700 (MST) Diana Chapman first wrote Returning from a trip I found my two ten year old Boophane disticha bulbs sending up flower buds. The bulbs are about grapefruit size, and I grow them each individually in very large pots to accommodate their huge roots. And then Leo Martin asked > Congratulations! How large is a very large pot? To which Diana Chapman replied >> The pots are 16" in diameter, and 13" deep, one bulb to a pot. Thank you! I have some B. disticha and B. haemanthoides seedlings. I suspect they don't like being transplanted that often, so before next growing season I'll put them into bigger pots. Anybody on the list have comments on how much to pot up Boophone? Cactus don't like going into pots much bigger than about 10cm / 5 inches larger in diameter. How about amaryllids? Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From leo@possi.org Tue Apr 29 21:13:29 2008 Message-Id: <30046.209.180.132.162.1209518001.squirrel@possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Including the entire message, was pbs list formatting Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:13:21 -0700 (MST) Mary Sue Ittner wrote > Our list has 260 regular subscribers and 194 digest subscribers > so we have more than just a few digest subscribers. I've heard > from many of our digest subscribers that they don't want to > receive a lot of messages and that is why they choose the > digest to bundle their messages instead of getting one > at a time. Technological advances wouldn't change this reason > for getting a digest. Thanks for all the work maintaining the list. I used to maintain a small web site for out local cactus club. I know how much work this is. Yes, I really prefer the digest. In fact... is there any way the method could be revised so only one digest is sent per day? Today, for example, I have received 4 PBS digest messages. I'll read them all but it would be a lot nicer to get just one. It's not as bad as the aroid society, which often sends out digests with only one message... six or eight times per day. Leo From leo@possi.org Tue Apr 29 21:24:03 2008 Message-Id: <30077.209.180.132.162.1209518634.squirrel@possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: carefree garden bulbs Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:23:54 -0700 (MST) Here in Phoenix, Arizona, we average 8 inches / 20cm rainfall per year, but this is extremely variable. 40% of the rain falls between November and March, and 60% between late July and September. Summer temperatures are routinely far over 100 F / 38C and overnight winter lows are routinely down to freezing, rarely to the high teens F / -8C. Winter daytime temperatures are always well over freezing. I don't have a lot of bulbs in the ground, and I don't have much experience with them in the ground, but these are bulletproof here: Several dozen Amaryllis beladonna make lovely foliage every year. I saw one inflorescence once and I don't know what I did differently that year. I got seed which is growing slowly. Dichelostemma pulchellum is of course native here, and it can be almost weedy in gardens. An unnamed Freesia hybrid has been blooming each late winter for over 15 years even though it is in a bed that gets summer watering. Hippeastrum hybrids aren't in the ground here at Castillo San Miguel, but they form large beds in many parts of Phoenix on the east sides of houses. Lycoris radiata grows and flowers well most of the time. Sometimes it skips a year flowering. The other Lycoris don't live past the first summer. Paperwhite narcissus bloom and multiply reliably each year for over 20 years, the only Narcissus I've been able to keep very long. Rhodophiala bifida (sterile) is completely bulletproof even with ample summer watering. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From zigur@hotmail.com Wed Apr 30 00:35:33 2008 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: Boophane disticha Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:35:24 -0700 I plant my 1 year seedlings directly in the ground or in 2' deep beds. I have potted previously bedded out plants and they simply hate it. T> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:50:36 -0700> From: leo@possi.org> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: Re: [pbs] Boophane disticha> > Diana Chapman first wrote> Returning from a trip I found my two ten year old Boophane> disticha bulbs sending up flower buds. The bulbs are about> grapefruit size, and I grow them each individually in very> large pots to accommodate their huge roots.> > And then Leo Martin asked> > Congratulations! How large is a very large pot?> > To which Diana Chapman replied> >> The pots are 16" in diameter, and 13" deep, one bulb to a pot.> > Thank you! I have some B. disticha and B. haemanthoides seedlings. I> suspect they don't like being transplanted that often, so before next> growing season I'll put them into bigger pots. Anybody on the list have> comments on how much to pot up Boophone? Cactus don't like going into pots> much bigger than about 10cm / 5 inches larger in diameter. How about> amaryllids?> > Leo Martin> Phoenix Arizona USA> > _______________________________________________> pbs mailing list> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From msittner@mcn.org Wed Apr 30 01:39:20 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080429221452.034ecf70@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Including the entire message, was pbs list formatting Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:25:36 -0700 Dear Leo, How many times the digest is sent out each day depends on how many messages are sent each day and how long they are. A new one is triggered when a size threshold is reached. The size was set long ago when someone on this list who had limited storage space requested that it not get too big because then the messages were truncated and the last ones were left out. When most people include the previous message in their messages as a great number of people did today, extra digests are sent out since the size that is triggered is reached rather rapidly. And when someone responds to the digest by including the whole digest as someone did today, another digest is triggered immediately. Most days there is only one digest. I can increase the size before a digest is triggered, but I need to hear from some of the digest subscribers first to make sure this will work for everyone. Please send me feedback privately, not via the list. The best way to limit the number of digests is for people to stop including all of the previous message in their replies. But I know no way to get people to do that. Mary Sue From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Wed Apr 30 01:54:48 2008 Message-Id: <24837375.4811209534882947.JavaMail.www@wwinf1a21> From: Mark BROWN Subject: LIST FORMATTING. Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:54:42 +0200 (CEST) Hear hear! I get little respite from the garden and bad back or really bad weather is the ony time I get to reply to my e-mails. So Please,please forgive us who just simply rely on our computors to be sufficient to cope with the arcanes of internet etc. I too am in admiration of those that can understand information technology but I can't! I keep to the plants. Thank you all the patient souls who manage this wonderful resource, Mark > Message du 29/04/08 23:40 > De : "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" > A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [pbs] pbs Digest, Vol 63, Issue 33 > > LIST FORMATTING. > > " if > ignorance > be truly bliss then I must be a happy man. > > In awe of the clever technological wizzards on PBS." > > Iain _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From LucGBulot@aol.com Wed Apr 30 05:34:00 2008 Message-Id: <8CA78BC6C927896-A58-13DF@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com> From: lucgbulot@aol.com Subject: : Archives, Iris bismarkiana, formatting Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 05:33:47 -0400 Dear Max... Many thanks for your imput about the sciencefromisrael website... I will have a look tomorrow (public holiday here) and most likely pay to access it (and then distribute it to whoever is interested)... Best regards, Luc From Neil.Crawford@volvo.com Wed Apr 30 06:48:49 2008 Message-Id: From: "Crawford Neil" Subject: FW: carefree garden bulbs Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:48:46 +0200 We are North of Diane in Sweden, same sort of Northern climate I imagine though, so starting from her post, here's our report. Winter: Our season starts in February so we can more or less forget winter Spring: March,April,May Snowdrops , crocus, Scylla, Winter aconite (Eranthis hyemalis), Hepatica nobilis (blue anemone) Allium ursinum (wild garlic) At this moment the garden is full of Daffodils, next up is tulips and narcissus. Erythronium dens-canis, the purple ones do well, but the yellow ones keep getting eaten (by deer?). Anemone nemorosa - This is where we excel, the whole South of Sweden is covered as I speak! Any slightly wooded place with a little sun will have them en masse, our garden is no exception, we have a blue variety that does well too. We have a lovely double white somewhere, but I seem to have lost it. Trillium, we have one that is doing very poorly, I think they just don't like it here. Bluebells, we have Scylla non-scripta only, and they are spreading nicely Ornithagalum, various kinds. And now some from South Africa that I'm trying to grow, I don't expect to succeed. Summer: June to August Hemerocallis, the easy Daylillys grow nicely, yellow and orange, but we've had little success with the fancy ones, I imagine it's just us, they have a magnificent collection in Gothenburgs botanical garden. Polygonatum multiflorum, not the hybrid, and I agree with Diane, such a nice plant. This year we had enough to start moving them out into the wilder garden. We also have Polygonatum verticillatum Cypripedium calceous and C.regina, Lady slipper Orchids are doing well this year we will probably have a dozen flowers. We also have a Dactylorhiza maculata hybrid that grows nicely. We had some other orchids but they seem to have gone. Platanthera chlorantha, Greater Butterfly Orchid grows wild, and we've been pleased to find that it's moved into our garden. Convallaria majalis - seem to like growing under our Oak which I just chain sawed, so we will have to see what that does to the Lily of the valley. Around our pond we have Iris siberica and I. pseudacorus Yellow Iris (which spreads violently) Summer to frost, which usually comes in September-October: Dahlias - we have lots, in no particular order I'm sure we have piles of other things I forgot, but we have so much, it's a large untidy garden where plants come and go. Neil Crawford Kungälv, Bohuslän on the West coast of Sweden maritime zone for sure, but I don't know the number. Cold rainy winters with some snow, mild rainy summers. From leo@possi.org Wed Apr 30 16:12:16 2008 Message-Id: <4765.75.172.176.187.1209586331.squirrel@possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Boophone disticha Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:12:11 -0700 (MST) In response to my question about how large a pot to use for seedling Boophone, Tim Harvey wrote > I plant my 1 year seedlings directly in the ground > or in 2' deep beds. I have potted previously bedded > out plants and they simply hate it. I don't know whether 1- or 2-year-old seedlings would survive a summer here in the ground. I think I'll repot next fall into very large pots. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From jshields@indy.net Wed Apr 30 17:47:56 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080430174623.03a50ea8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Boophone disticha Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:48:08 -0400 Leo and all, I've had best luck repotting my summer-dormant South African bulbs in late summer, shortly before they would start to come out of dormancy again. Of course, I can't seem to grow Brunsvigia successfully here no matter what I do! Jim Shields in spring-like central Indiana (USA) At 01:12 PM 4/30/2008 -0700, you wrote: >In response to my question about how large a pot to use for seedling >Boophone, Tim Harvey wrote > > > I plant my 1 year seedlings directly in the ground > > or in 2' deep beds. I have potted previously bedded > > out plants and they simply hate it. > >I don't know whether 1- or 2-year-old seedlings would survive a summer >here in the ground. I think I'll repot next fall into very large pots. > >Leo Martin >Phoenix Arizona USA ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From cj5sfo@yahoo.com Wed Apr 30 19:11:39 2008 Message-Id: <95916.11629.qm@web52006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Gregg DeChirico Subject: carefree garden bulbs Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:11:34 -0700 (PDT) Leo, Amaryllis belladonna has naturalized in San Francisco and up and down the central California coast. A few years back I "collected" several bulbs from a nearby hillside from among the many clumps growing there. These were planted among a variety of other plants in a raised bed in my yard with the idea they would collectively produce year-round bloom. Year after year the Amaryllis produced lush leaves, but no flowers. After a hard freeze in January of 2007 the raised bed was abandoned with a future plan for revamping. Not a drop of water fell near it. Following our long dry summer, suddenly there were two spikes and five, large pink flowers floating on 2 ft stems above the otherwise barren bed. So this long postulation to your enigmatic Amaryllis situation may be to withold and or protect it from excessive summer rains... but then doing so may possibly kill everything growing around it.... Gregg "Leo A. Martin" wrote: Several dozen Amaryllis beladonna make lovely foliage every year. I saw one inflorescence once and I don't know what I did differently that year. I got seed which is growing slowly. Gregg DeChirico Santa Barbara, California http://www.flickr.com/photos/u4banut/ --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. From shayek.kent@gmail.com Wed Apr 30 19:23:25 2008 Message-Id: From: Susan Hayek Subject: carefree garden bulbs Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:23:14 -0700 *I agree with Gregg. I am in NorCal on the coast, a couple of hours south of the Oregon border. Lots of A.belladonna here, too. No summer water. Mine bloom every year. They are planted with heaths and heathers, and old fashioned good smelling purple bearded iris. susan At 4:11 PM -0700 4/30/08, Gregg DeChirico wrote: >Leo, > > Amaryllis belladonna has naturalized in San Francisco and up and >down the central California coast >, large pink flowers floating on 2 ft stems above the otherwise >barren bed. So this long postulation to your enigmatic Amaryllis >situation may be to withold and or protect it from excessive summer >rains... but then doing so may possibly kill everything growing >around it.... From pasogal@ameritech.net Wed Apr 30 20:03:24 2008 Message-Id: <001a01c8ab1e$c375e070$4a61a150$@net> From: "Annalee" Subject: I. bismarckiana Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:03:18 -0500 Hello Luc. The picture you posted is the Israeli form of I. Bismarckiana. And the Israelis are the only ones who have done any "official" work on distinguishing the various forms of the oncocycli. By and large I find it easy to accept most of their findings, including the division into baiscally 4 "tribes" of the species, an idea, that I think was first proposed either in the BISY and/or in correspondence to me and Clay Osborne by Ken Bastow (hobbyist, ) of the British Iris Society. Back in the 60s. His ideas were based on phenotype, and an analysis of livie plants in geographical locations and gardens together with what was available in the literature. I do not know if he actually saw the materials in the old Post Herbarium in Palestine. As you note the plants still exist along the Israel Lebanon border. The taxonomy of the oncocyli has been the usual mess, with the Russians being "splitters" and the Brits being "lumpers" over the last 120 years or so, and nobody getting out into the field or reexamining the old herbarium specimens collected by Dinsmore or Mouterde because of border disputes and other warring matters. At this point, to my knowledge ( the Israelis have done the only respectable work on systematizing this group. For me the type specimens (live) of I. bismarckiana are those from the Crak des Chevaliers provenance and are distinct enough to be, if not the holotype for the species, a variant distinct anough to merit a forma or ssp. Designation.; Now as to the challenge of "put up or shut up " (which is in order) mI have to refer to a slide.