From jshaw@opuntiads.com Tue Jan 1 10:38:14 2008 Message-Id: <4839EFD6821D4D7E8FF9F65156924A86@JoePC> From: "Joe" Subject: Off Topic, Mahuenia Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 09:38:09 -0600 Hi Gang, Maihuenia is a genus of South American cacti sometimes grown in rock gardens. I meant to follow through on a trade offer with someone on this list. If that someone reads this note and remembers the proposed trade, please contact me off list. I just can't remember the details and my computer had a stroke this past summer. Cordially, Joe Conroe TX Sunny and cool today, temperatures may drop to 26 F tonight. From msittner@mcn.org Tue Jan 1 10:44:44 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080101072246.030b9330@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Thanks Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 07:44:15 -0800 Hi, I want to thank all of you who posted your encouragement about announcing wiki additions either on the list or privately. It appears that enough people are interested in hearing about the new additions to continue to do it. I will follow Dylan's suggestion and include at least the genus being referenced in the subject so people who are not interested won't have to read the whole post. As this new year begins I want to thank those people who helped me last year with the wiki and the list. Arnold Trachtenberg continues to assist with the list and almost every day removes an ever increasing amount of spam that is posted by non-members of our list. He has also helped people add pictures to the wiki. Diane Whitehead also helps with the list, problem solving and helping non members who post to our list looking for information or to wanting to reach someone on the list. Jay Yourch made a major contribution to the wiki last year when it was upgraded. He spent hours and hours sorting out all the problems and making it operational. Before that he had figured out a way to add thumbnails to our wiki pages which I think everyone agrees has improved the quality of the wiki enormously. He continues to think about ways to improve it and to help me whenever there is a problem. Linda Foulis has assisted when we have needed to make a lot of changes. She helped a lot with the thumbnail conversion, has split up pages, added tables, added links, etc. Thanks to everyone who has added to the quality of our list by asking and answering questions. I continue to appreciate what a helpful group of people are subscribed to this list. And thanks to all of you who have contributed pictures and text to the wiki, found mistakes and told me about them or corrected them on your own. I especially am grateful for all of those people who have taken the time to learn how to use the wiki and who have independently added your pictures and information. Happy New Year everyone. Mary Sue PBS list and wiki administrator From leedee@consolidated.net Tue Jan 1 13:28:01 2008 Message-Id: <000601c84ca4$040b3510$bc0122d1@CPQ18932270220> From: "Lee &/or Dee Garner" Subject: New Member Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 12:27:48 -0600 Hello everyone! I recently became a new member of PBS and wanted to introduce myself. I'm Lee Garner of Willis, Texas, USA ( 75 miles north of Houston -zone 8A)....I have been a gardener for many years but have developed a love & facination of geophytes within the past few years and yearning to learn more. Thanks to the wonderful work of so many...creating the WIKI,...(which I have been referencing the past year)...I've been learning so much....delightful! I currently grow Hippeastrums,Crinums, Zephyranthes, Habranthus, Alliums, Rhodophiala, Lycoris, Hymenocallis, Hemerocallis, Hebertia, Ismene and a few other things! Thank you for accepting another student within the group! I must ask for assistance....since I don't fully understand how the Seed & Bulb Exchange works. I've perused the lists of so many....but I'm unaware of the normal protocol for the "exchange" of seeds or bulbs from the various members....or how I contact others about doing so. Again,...thanks to all for such a wonderful resource! Lee From c-mueller@tamu.edu Tue Jan 1 14:11:44 2008 Message-Id: <477A3BF5.E5F2.008A.0@ag.tamu.edu> From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: New Member Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 13:10:47 -0600 Welcome, Lee, to the Pacific Bulb Society! There's plenty of learn here. I'm not too far away from you in College Station, Tx so we've probably killed the same plants over a period of time....but there are lots to choose from that will grow for us. More later, Cynthia Mueller >>> "Lee &/or Dee Garner" 1/1/2008 12:27 PM >>> Hello everyone! I recently became a new member of PBS and wanted to introduce myself. I'm Lee Garner of Willis, Texas, USA ( 75 miles north of Houston -zone 8A)....I have been a gardener for many years but have developed a love & facination of geophytes within the past few years and yearning to learn more. Thanks to the wonderful work of so many...creating the WIKI,...(which I have been referencing the past year)...I've been learning so much....delightful! I currently grow Hippeastrums,Crinums, Zephyranthes, Habranthus, Alliums, Rhodophiala, Lycoris, Hymenocallis, Hemerocallis, Hebertia, Ismene and a few other things! Thank you for accepting another student within the group! I must ask for assistance....since I don't fully understand how the Seed & Bulb Exchange works. I've perused the lists of so many....but I'm unaware of the normal protocol for the "exchange" of seeds or bulbs from the various members....or how I contact others about doing so. Again,...thanks to all for such a wonderful resource! Lee _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Jan 1 20:17:24 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080101113911.0168e260@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Bulbs and cacti Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 11:47:53 -0800 Joe Shaw reminded me (I am the neglectful plant-promiser) about the Maihuenia in my rock garden. You wouldn't think a little bulb scape could come up through the dense, low mat formed by this cactus, but every year a Bloomeria crocea flowers there, having arrived, I think, when I incorporated old potting soil in the rock garden bed, as I often do. In nature, many bulbous plants take advantage of cacti and spiny shrubs for protection from grazing animals -- especially useful since so many bulbs grow where humans have introduced goats and sheep. In California, some survive only by cohabiting with poison oak. A seriously spiny plant of even moderate size can be a little refuge for the last survivors of a population of palatable bulbous species. In the garden, this can offer protection from deer and rabbits. In addition, once a dog has stepped on a mat of Maihuenia, it'll never go that way again! However, the tolerance of gardeners for spiny plants varies; I resisted all cacti for a long time because my mother collected them and grew them in a raised bed around our patio, where they were sure to stab playing children. And yes, there are cacti that can stand 45 inches of rain a winter, and freezing, if given extreme drainage. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From leedee@consolidated.net Tue Jan 1 15:04:10 2008 Message-Id: <20080101140409.ITC28292@mailstore02.consolidated.net> From: "Garner, Lee" Subject: New Member Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 14:04:09 -0600 (CST) Thank you, Cynthia! I'm sure we've probably killed some of the same plants...at some time or another! (grin) I appreciate your warm welcome and look forward to future correspondence! My Best Regards, Lee From djordan68@comcast.net Tue Jan 1 15:15:46 2008 Message-Id: From: "Deborah Jordan" Subject: Welcome and Thanks Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 14:14:31 -0600 Happy New Year! I haven't posted over here before; but I am a member who just wants to say that I greatly appreciate the Wiki and all the hard work that went into creating/updating/organizing it. I very much appreciate the notices of when new species have been added. Since I tend to grow a lot of unusual species (at least for this area, anyway) I find it invaluable. I'm a bit more active in IBS. I just have one question. If I have pictures that you might want, who do I contact? Welcome Lee! I live out in the "unincorporated" area west of Houston and grow a lot of Zephyranthes, Habranthus, Rhodophiala, Crinum, Cypella, Lycoris, Hymenocallus, Ipheions, Herbertias, Alliums, Freesia species and Freesia laxa's, a lot of different Narcissus, Oxalis, Gladiolus species, Sternbergia, Polianthes, Tigridias, Albucas, Sprekelia, a few species Hipeastrums, lots of Louisiana Iris hybrids and some Calla's. Rather unusually for this area of the country, I also grow some Triteleias, Calostemma, Ammocharis, Nemastylus and Schoencaulon (both native to TX, but not this part), Northoscordium, Leucocoryne, Trichopetalum, Pasithea, Aristea, Cyanella, Lachenalia, Veltheima, Hesperanthas, Pancratim, Scadoxus, Ledebouria, a few Scillas, Nerines, and Sisyrinchium. I'm also "spelling challenged" when in a hurry, so please excuse any errors. Debbie From hamish.sloan@virgin.net Tue Jan 1 16:16:48 2008 Message-Id: <01C84CBB.396B7C80.hamish.sloan@virgin.net> From: Hamish Sloan Subject: Life at the IBS? Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 21:13:23 -0000 Try Dave Lehmiller Membership Director 18173 Hwy 326 North Sour Lake TX 77659 E-mail IBSME@aol.com Cheers for the New Year Hamish -----Original Message----- From: John T Lonsdale [SMTP:john@johnlonsdale.net] Sent: 29 December 2007 23:35 To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: [pbs] Life at the IBS? Does anyone have a better idea as to how I might get these back issues of Herbertia please? ÿÿ From btankers@chicagobotanic.org Wed Jan 2 08:52:18 2008 Message-Id: <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A09BD31A1@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> From: "Boyce Tankersley" Subject: Wiki additions -- Massonia, Haemanthus, Dietes, Chamaescilla Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 07:52:18 -0600 Hi Mary Sue: Please keep up the good work, even if feedback is not overwhelming. Recent grants have diverted my time/focus away from geophytes but your email posts regarding wiki additions provide an excuse to visit the wiki and enjoy the latest additions. I am the only staff member at CBG on the Pacific Bulb Society listserve (I think) and forward the appropriate messages to staff in the horticulture, education, plant collections and research departments. In that regard, the Pacific Bulb Society and wiki are very valuable resources. Many thanks and best wishes for the New Year! Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 tel: 847-835-6841 fax: 847-835-1635 email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Jan 2 10:00:06 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: One is the loneliest... Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 08:50:35 -0600 Dear PBSers, Ipheion uniflorum as the name suggests should have a single flower per fan of foliage. I think so. Does anyone have an alternate experience? Does it ever have 2 or more per ? And Ipheion 'Rolf Fiedler' , long suggested as a 'different ' species from typical uniflorum...How many flowers does it have per stem? Does any Ipheion have multiple flowers per stem? And what about the 'new' 'Jessie' said to be an improved 'Rolf Fiedler'. how many flowers per stem ? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From rpries@sbcglobal.net Wed Jan 2 09:58:45 2008 Message-Id: <684082.85178.qm@web81905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Robt R Pries Subject: Zephyranthes in the Wikipedia Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 06:58:33 -0800 (PST) If one looks up Zephyranthes in the Wikipedia one will find a nice article. But the Wikipedia does not name the authors. I would like to contact some of these authors to gather further information about some of the cultivars mentioned. I would love to hear from those contributors or anyone who believes they could be helpful with information about Zephyranthes cultivars. Thanks Bob Pries. From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Jan 2 10:00:08 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Life at the IBS? Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 08:59:56 -0600 Dear John, I have been reluctant to touch this topic especially here. I think IBS is a touchy topic to many. I have had a few private discussions with various people about 'what's the matter/" in general with IBS and the situation seems long, involved and tender. It involves personalities (and their egos), personal conflicts and the general change in how things are done (WWW, rise of PBS, etc.) The most recent president of IBS resigned suddenly and Alan Meerow has again taken on the duties.This on top of a very full schedule. The web site seems barely coherent and the publications are wavering (or so I think). I reluctantly gave up on the group and did not renew after years of membership. My reasons were because of over the top decisions by influential officers. On the other hand - and a very important other hand - the IBS has a history and tradition of the highest quality of offerings and interest to the bulb world. I'd hate to see it fail totally, but it seems to repulse the real help it needs. And again personally I'd love to see a united bulb world combining the best of PBS, IBS and other bulb groups both physical and on-line. I think right now IBS just doesn't 'work' very well. So I am curious if you ever got some one willing to sell you some back issues. Good luck. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From butterflyamaryllis@yahoo.com Wed Jan 2 12:26:16 2008 Message-Id: <633369.44304.qm@web33910.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: hello Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 09:26:14 -0800 (PST) Happy New Year Cynthia! James Frelichowski --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. From butterflyamaryllis@yahoo.com Wed Jan 2 12:29:01 2008 Message-Id: <831801.35493.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: New Member Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 09:29:00 -0800 (PST) Howdy! I'm from Bryan (next to College Station), but actually relocated from Bakersfield, CA area and grew up near Chicago and went to school at the University of Illinois Champaign-Urbana Campus. I'm a strict Hippeastrum'o'phile. I work with cotton with the USDA. James Frelichowski Lee &/or Dee Garner wrote: Hello everyone! I recently became a new member of PBS and wanted to introduce myself. I'm Lee Garner of Willis, Texas, USA ( 75 miles north of Houston -zone 8A)....I have been a gardener for many years but have developed a love & facination of geophytes within the past few years and yearning to learn more. Thanks to the wonderful work of so many...creating the WIKI,...(which I have been referencing the past year)...I've been learning so much....delightful! I currently grow Hippeastrums,Crinums, Zephyranthes, Habranthus, Alliums, Rhodophiala, Lycoris, Hymenocallis, Hemerocallis, Hebertia, Ismene and a few other things! Thank you for accepting another student within the group! I must ask for assistance....since I don't fully understand how the Seed & Bulb Exchange works. I've perused the lists of so many....but I'm unaware of the normal protocol for the "exchange" of seeds or bulbs from the various members....or how I contact others about doing so. Again,...thanks to all for such a wonderful resource! Lee _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. From c-mueller@tamu.edu Wed Jan 2 12:32:16 2008 Message-Id: <477B762C.E5F2.008A.0@ag.tamu.edu> From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: hello Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 11:31:56 -0600 Thanks, James. Are you still in College Station? While I was worrying about my potted hippeastrums, etc. outside I was wondering if you have all your bulbs indoors with heat, now? Did your bulbs recover from the move, and have they been flowering? More later, Cynthia Mueller - and Have a Great 2008! >>> James Frelichowski 1/2/2008 11:26 AM >>> Happy New Year Cynthia! James Frelichowski --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From msittner@mcn.org Wed Jan 2 12:41:18 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080102092613.015c7ce8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions--Calydorea, Habranthus Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:39:46 -0800 Hi, There are two new recently described species from Argentina. Germán Roitman has kindly supplied pictures and information about them for the wiki. The first is Calydorea minima, bogs in northern Argentina and Paraguay: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Calydorea#minima and the second is Habranthus sanavirone, sandy soil in central Argentina: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Habranthus#sanavirone If I get permission from Germán, I'll add the pdf files that describe these new species to the wiki and link them to these species. In the meantime if there is someone who is really interested in either of these articles, please email me privately. Mary Sue From john@johnlonsdale.net Wed Jan 2 20:20:12 2008 Message-Id: <005101c84da6$c31d3400$6801a8c0@XPS400> From: "John T Lonsdale" Subject: Life at the IBS? Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 20:20:00 -0500 Hi Jim, Other than contributing an article about Trilliums to 'Bulbs' a couple of years ago my interaction with, and knowledge of, the IBS has been minimal. Of course I have heard all the various rumblings but didn't have any first-hand encounters until now. Clearly the IBS has major issues. A number of PBS members have emailed me with suggestions regarding the back issues, and have been very helpful, for which I'm grateful. Regarding the IBS itself, Herb Kelly, a member of the BOD, has been the only one to contact me. He responded to me very quickly, has been as helpful as possible and done his best to get my request sorted out. He's also asked for information to help him get to the bottom of the problems I encountered with the web site and out-dated publications order form. All the best, J. John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 801 327 1266 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From rvanderhoff@sbcglobal.net Thu Jan 3 00:29:20 2008 Message-Id: <948022.52646.qm@web81003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ron Vanderhoff Subject: One is the loneliest... Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 21:29:19 -0800 (PST) James, I've grown the species Ipheion uniflorum and the selections 'Rolf Fielder', 'Froyle Mill', Charlotte Bishop', 'Alberto Castillo', 'Alba' and 'Jesse'. Even the species I. dailystemon, I. hirtellum and I. sellowianum (=Nothoscordum sellowianum). I have never noticed more than one flower per pedicel on any of these, although now that you asked, I'm going to pay closer attention this year. Ron Vanderhoff Mild, Mediterranean Southern California, where rain (much needed) is due over the next couple of days. James Waddick wrote: Dear PBSers, Ipheion uniflorum as the name suggests should have a single flower per fan of foliage. I think so. Does anyone have an alternate experience? Does it ever have 2 or more per ? And Ipheion 'Rolf Fiedler' , long suggested as a 'different ' species from typical uniflorum...How many flowers does it have per stem? Does any Ipheion have multiple flowers per stem? And what about the 'new' 'Jessie' said to be an improved 'Rolf Fiedler'. how many flowers per stem ? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From Roth@ukzn.ac.za Thu Jan 3 01:14:48 2008 Message-Id: <477C9962.2298.0024.0@ukzn.ac.za> From: "Rogan Roth" Subject: Moraea hiemalis seed Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 08:14:27 +0200 To Dell (...and anyone else who may be interested), My e-mails to you keep bouncing back (...even if I use the 'reply' function), so I don't know what could be wrong. Anyway, I collected a quantity of Moraea hiemalis seed recently in the Drakensberg mountains, enough to send to the bulb and seed X and to anyone else who may be interested in growing this plant (...and yes, I can send you collection data if you should require it). You can see it at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MoraeaSpeciesFive#hiemalis Please contact me PRIVATELY with your postal address if you would like some of this seed. Best regards Rogan. Please find our Email Disclaimer here: http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer/ From ggroiti@mail.agro.uba.ar Thu Jan 3 06:41:05 2008 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.1.20080103092137.01c87288@mail.agro.uba.ar> From: German Roitman Subject: Wiki Additions--Calydorea, Habranthus Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 09:40:48 -0300 Hello Thanks Mary Sue for comunicate this additions, here are the links for the articles: http://www.agro.uba.ar/users/roitman/habranthus_sanavirone_novon.pdf http://www.agro.uba.ar/users/roitman/calydorea_minimaSAB.pdf During 2006 we have also published an article about the presence of Habranthus cardenasianus in Argentina, i have add two pictures and a brief text in the habranthus page. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/habranthus_cardenasianus_GR2.jpg http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/habranthus_cardenasianus_GR1.jpg The article is also available here: http://www.agro.uba.ar/users/roitman/Habranthus_cardenasianusSAB.pdf During the next months there will be some news about Iridaceae and Amaryllidaceae from South America. Best wishes Germán At 14:39 02/01/2008, you wrote: >Hi, > >There are two new recently described species from Argentina. Germán Roitman >has kindly supplied pictures and information about them for the wiki. >The first is Calydorea minima, bogs in northern Argentina and Paraguay: >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Calydorea#minima > >and the second is Habranthus sanavirone, sandy soil in central Argentina: >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Habranthus#sanavirone > >If I get permission from Germán, I'll add the pdf files that describe these >new species to the wiki and link them to these species. In the meantime if >there is someone who is really interested in either of these articles, >please email me privately. > >Mary Sue > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: >269.17.13/1206 - Release Date: 01/01/2008 12:09 _________________________ Ing. Agr. MSc. Germán Roitman Director Carrera de Jardinería FAUBA _________________________ From fierycloud2002@yahoo.com.tw Thu Jan 3 08:25:03 2008 Message-Id: <77B28D0D91E14EB6BA25D08F6CB16A04@2F1> From: "Fierycloud" Subject: Asking for a hint of world map of chilling hours Please? Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:25:03 +0800 Happy New Year: I'm looking for the whole-world version of the chilling hours map. http://www.raintreenursery.com/indexpics/chill-unit-map3.gif Could someone give me a hint please? I would like to try the bulbous species which might have less chilling hours than the others. And sorry that I just can't find a original map from the university. Only from the commercial web. Kind Regards It's our coldest time in a year. 12 C around 53.6 F Fierycloud, Taiwan (USDA Z11+ , AHS Z12+) From dells@voicenet.com Thu Jan 3 09:22:16 2008 Message-Id: <20080103142216.554774C010@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 163 Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:21:59 -0500 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 163" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Jerry Flintoff: SEED: 1. Fritillaria raddeana 2. Lilium ex. 'Early Bird' (martagon-hansonii hybrid) 3. Calochortus amoenus, white form 4. Gladiolus longicollis From Ton de Waard: 5. Small corms of Crocosmia, orange flowers, 2 ft tall. Original corms were w/c on Madeira 12 yrs ago. Hardy to Zone 7. May be 'Lady Wilson' SEED: 6. Dahlia, mixed dark-leafed hybrids 7. Dahlia 'Pooh' 8. Cyclamen creticum 9. Tigridia pavonia, red 10. Mirabilis jalapa, red or pink Thank you, Jerry and Ton !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From jshields@indy.net Thu Jan 3 09:38:03 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080103092340.02750790@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Wiki Additions--Calydorea, Habranthus Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 09:34:02 -0500 Hi all, I want to thank Germán for posting links to the PDF files of his articles. I would be most grateful if all authors would provide us with such convenient access to their original papers. Best regards, Jim Shields in very cold, snowy central Indiana (USA) At 09:40 AM 1/3/2008 -0300, you wrote: >Hello > >........ >here are the links for the articles: > >http://www.agro.uba.ar/users/roitman/habranthus_sanavirone_novon.pdf > >http://www.agro.uba.ar/users/roitman/calydorea_minimaSAB.pdf > >......... > >http://www.agro.uba.ar/users/roitman/Habranthus_cardenasianusSAB.pdf > > >During the next months there will be some news >about Iridaceae and Amaryllidaceae from South America. > >Best wishes > >Germán ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From msittner@mcn.org Thu Jan 3 12:10:48 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080103085103.034a8c68@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions--Calydorea, Habranthus Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 09:01:17 -0800 Hi, I've added links for the Calydorea and Habranthus articles to the wiki so they will be easily accessible to all. Thanks so much to Germán for making them available. I invite you to look at the Habranthus wiki page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Habranthus when you look at the new pictures of Habranthus cardenasianus as the links that Germán so kindly gave you are not going to work. Mary Sue From meg570@comcast.net Thu Jan 3 13:27:00 2008 Message-Id: <010320081741.19148.477D1E5A00061FEC00004ACC2200750744CFC9CA090A03@comcast.net> From: meg570@comcast.net Subject: Wiki Additions-Calochortus Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:41:46 +0000 I have added a number of new Calochortus photos to the PBS website, including many of the Mexican species. Many thanks to Mary Sue Ittner for guiding me through the logistics of posting these, as well as for making some additional Calochortus pages. I will add more Calochortus photos over the next few weeks The additions are here http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesOne http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesTwo http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesThree http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesFour http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesFive http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesSix http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesSeven http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesEight Mary Gerritsen From cameron@haznet.co.za Thu Jan 3 14:47:13 2008 Message-Id: <009301c84e39$da7a7520$213dd0c4@mcmasterdae8d5> From: "Cameron McMaster" Subject: One is the loneliest... Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 20:48:48 +0200 Jim wrote: Ipheion uniflorum as the name suggests should have a single flower per fan of foliage. I think so. Does anyone have an alternate experience? Does it ever have 2 or more per ? Two 'lonely' species I can think of off-hand are Disa uniflora and Baeometra uniflora - both are most likely to have more than one flower! Rhoda Napier, SA, with Cyrtanthus carneus, Thereianthus bracteolus, Aristea oligocephala and Tritoniopsis unguicularis flowering in the wild, and Watsonia schlechteri about to flower. From msittner@mcn.org Thu Jan 3 15:27:00 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080103110856.02cd2478@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions-Calochortus Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 11:29:38 -0800 In case some of you have not made the connection, Mary Gerritsen is one of the authors of the Calochortus book published this year by Timber Press. It includes descriptions, color photos, habitat and cultivation information about every major group and species. Mary has spent considerable time adding a lot of really valuable information about this genus to the wiki and resizing and renaming her pictures so they could be added to the wiki. Most of her pictures were taken in habitat as she has traveled to find the different species. New species added are Calochortus balsensis, Calochoruts cernus, Calochortus davidsonianus, Calochortus exilis, Calochortus fuscus, Calochortus greenei, Calochortus hartwegii, Calochortus leichtlinnii, Calochortus mendozae, Calochortus nigrescens, Calochortus ownbeyi, Calochortus persistens, Calochortus pringlei, Calochortus purpureus, Calochortus spatulatus, and Calochortus subalpinus. In addition she has added habitat shots of some of the species already on the wiki. And there is more to come. For Calochortus enthusiasts everywhere it is wonderful to have this information be so readily available. Thank you Mary. Mary Sue From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Jan 3 15:25:57 2008 Message-Id: <003001c84e3f$1a7d13d0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Nerine sarniensis and Guernsey Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:30:26 -0500 A local friend and I have been emailing back and forth this morning on the subject of Nerine culture. This was prompted by her mention of another friend who grows Nerine. One outcome of this was my being given a link to Nerine on the PlantzAfrica site, in particular to an article written by Graham Duncan. In that article, Duncan casts doubt on the story that Nerine sarniensis was introduced to Guernsey as flotsam (or was it as jetsam?) in the mid-seventeenth century. Here's the link to the article. http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantnop/nerinesarnien.htm Does anyone know what the evidence is for this doubt? The reason I'm asking is that I know that the story of the shipwreck and the Nerine has been told since at least the last decades of the seventeenth century. In other words, the story dates at least from the period about thirty years after the actual shipwreck event, from a time when it seems reasonable to assume there were still those who remembered the events in question. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the temperature has not gotten above the freezing point yet today. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Jan 3 15:33:01 2008 Message-Id: <003501c84e40$24b9d0d0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Wiki Additions-Calochortus Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:37:56 -0500 Thanks, Mary Gerritsen, for posting those images. I'm a newbie with Calochortus, but the few I've grown have me hooked. Some of them look a lot like frits at first glance, and something about the small dark red ones, especially Calochortus pringlei, remind me of the "chocolate cosmos". Hmmm...I wonder if I can make room for an expanded Calochortus collection beside the Fritillaria collection? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Crocus pallasii and C. ochroleucus are in bloom in a cold frame. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Thu Jan 3 16:40:40 2008 Message-Id: <034201c84e4b$e036a350$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Asking for a hint of world map of chilling hours Please? Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:01:55 -0000 Fierycloud: Please could you tell us the units measured by the thermoclines on the map of chilling hours - so many hours at how many degrees? It was impossible to tell from the image. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 COLESBOURNE PARK SNOWDROP OPEN DAYS 2008 January 26/27 and every Saturday & Sunday in February Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fierycloud" To: Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:25 PM Subject: [pbs] Asking for a hint of world map of chilling hours Please? Happy New Year: I'm looking for the whole-world version of the chilling hours map. http://www.raintreenursery.com/indexpics/chill-unit-map3.gif From ron_redding@hotmail.com Thu Jan 3 16:59:24 2008 Message-Id: From: Ronald Redding Subject: Moraea hiemalis seed Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 07:22:51 +1000 Rogan I don't want any seeds, I don't think my climate would be very helpful in preserving these plants, however I just wanted to say I have been touched by your generosity and the effort you have gone to in order to share these seeds.Kind Regards and Best WishesRon ReddingHervey BayAustralia > Anyway, I collected a quantity of Moraea hiemalis seed recently in the Drakensberg mountains, enough to send to the bulb and seed X and to anyone else who may be interested in growing this plant (...and yes, I can send you collection data if you should require it). You can see it at: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MoraeaSpeciesFive#hiemalis > > Please contact me PRIVATELY with your postal address if you would like some of this seed.> > Best regards> Rogan.> > Please find our Email Disclaimer here: http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer/> _______________________________________________> pbs mailing list> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _________________________________________________________________ What are you waiting for? Join Lavalife FREE http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D30288&_t=764581033&_r=email_taglines_Join_free_OCT07&_m=EXT From eagle85@flash.net Thu Jan 3 17:22:43 2008 Message-Id: <061F8B08-540C-4F60-8303-124C26449BAC@flash.net> From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Wiki Additions-Calochortus Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 13:46:53 -0800 Mary Sue and Mary Gerritsen, The pages are fantastic!!! While I have grown some Calochortus (one pic. in the group) I had NO IDEA that there are so many in the family. The pictures are almost enough to make me give up my Haemanthus and Scadoxus. Doug Westfall From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Thu Jan 3 17:34:32 2008 Message-Id: <24875731.1199397438027.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: Asking for a hint of world map of chilling hours Please? Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:57:17 -0500 (GMT-05:00) A chill hour is 1 hour at 45F or below. > >Please could you tell us the units measured by the thermoclines on the map >of chilling hours - so many hours at how many degrees? It was impossible to >tell from the image. > >John Grimshaw > > >Dr John M. Grimshaw >Sycamore Cottage >Colesbourne >Nr Cheltenham >Gloucestershire GL53 9NP > >Tel. 01242 870567 > >COLESBOURNE PARK SNOWDROP OPEN DAYS 2008 >January 26/27 and every Saturday & Sunday in February >Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm >website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Fierycloud" >To: >Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:25 PM >Subject: [pbs] Asking for a hint of world map of chilling hours Please? > > >Happy New Year: > >I'm looking for the whole-world version of the chilling hours map. > http://www.raintreenursery.com/indexpics/chill-unit-map3.gif > > From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Jan 3 17:58:09 2008 Message-Id: <34908648-32C0-48CB-A1F3-01E2D2CC733A@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: tetra snowdrops? Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:14:48 -0800 I've been scrutinizing my two snowdrop books in preparation for the season. In Snowdrops, by John Grimshaw and Aaron Davis, it was written that Dr. Ben Zonneveld of Leiden University was measuring the amount of DNA in snowdrop species and some cultivars, using Flow Cytometry. In 2003, Zonneveld, Grimshaw and Davis, published an article about this in Plant Systematics and Evolution. Tetraploids were found in Galanthus transcaucasicus and hexaploids in G. elwesii and G. lagodechianus. I grow a lot of elwesii. Does this mean that some of them are likely to be hexaploid? Would I look for the biggest ones? I have read that some of the best-known snowdrops, like Magnet, are triploid, which means they are sterile. Is there a list somewhere of tetraploid snowdrop cultivars? Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From rherold@yahoo.com Thu Jan 3 19:00:22 2008 Message-Id: <783434.2872.qm@web62403.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: Roy Herold Subject: Asking for a hint of world map of chilling hours Please? Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 15:23:43 -0800 (PST) Although some models don't count the hours below freezing... I can see where bulbs might need to go by soil temperature, as opposed to air temperature. I found chill-unit maps of Iowa, Florida, South Africa, and New Zealand, but nothing worldwide. Keep on Googling. --Roy NW of Boston High of 9F here today. That could be lots of chill units, or none at all. ----- Original Message ---- From: Mark Mazer To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2008 4:57:17 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Asking for a hint of world map of chilling hours Please? A chill hour is 1 hour at 45F or below. > >Please could you tell us the units measured by the thermoclines on the map >of chilling hours - so many hours at how many degrees? It was impossible to >tell from the image. > >John Grimshaw From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Thu Jan 3 19:21:23 2008 Message-Id: <477D7450.5000105@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Wiki Additions-Calochortus Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:48:32 -0800 Thank you Mary, and also thanks for all your hard work Mary Sue. The Wiki is wonderful, and a few years ago when we all started the PBS venture, we had no idea where it would go. Your work has created a wonderful site for research and just for browsing. Marguerite: growing bulbs in the Sou. California mountains at 3700 feet, where Calochortus is a spring wildflower! Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > In case some of you have not made the connection, Mary Gerritsen is one of > the authors of the Calochortus book published this year by Timber > From eagle85@flash.net Thu Jan 3 20:07:22 2008 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: information and pictures of Hippeastrum request Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:54:37 -0800 German Roitman, I do have 2 pictures of my Hipp tucumanum Sahuc 12 (syn. argentinum syn. candidum) one pic is on the pbs wiki and I will try to find the other picture and send it to you. Another source of information is Dennis Tsang who has Hipp. argentinum (syn. Hippeastrum candidum, Hippeastrum tucumanum e Hippeastrum immaculatum) blooming currently. Doug Westfall From ggroiti@mail.agro.uba.ar Thu Jan 3 19:40:15 2008 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.1.20080103212059.01d89338@mail.agro.uba.ar> From: German Roitman Subject: information and pictures of Hippeastrum request Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 22:02:42 -0300 Hi all: I have recently collected an Hippeastrum from the province of Corrientes (Argentina) from the same place where the holoptype "first collected voucher" of Amaryllis euryphylla Ravenna (Hippeastrum) has been collected. It will bloom in very few days, it seems it will be a long white trumpet, greenish outside. Within the subgenus Macropodastrum, in Argentina has been cited H. argentinum and H. parodii, but they live in completely different habitats. There are two other species from Brazil that could match the description, one is Hippeastrum brasilianum and the other one is Hippeastrum solandriflorum, if anyone has pictures (appart for the IBS pics) and information, such as flowering, production of bulblets of this species, please let me know. New pictures of this plant will be available soon. Best wishes Germán From ianandlizz@btinternet.com Fri Jan 4 08:10:13 2008 Message-Id: <65C83C764E7543D6A3FF83159FAE637D@ianandlizzPC> From: "ianandlizz" Subject: pbs One is the loneliest number Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 11:44:25 -0000 Hello. Sorry I am late on this one. Ipheion uniflorum and it's colour forms are known to occasionally produce stems with 2 flowers. I have pressed herbarium specimens from Ipheion uniflorum 'Charlotte Bishop', Ipheion uniflorum and Ipheion uniflorum 'Wisley Blue' exhibiting this quality. Ian Hunt. Chesterfield, UK. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:22 PM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 60, Issue 3 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Wiki Additions--Calydorea, Habranthus (German Roitman) > 2. Asking for a hint of world map of chilling hours Please? > (Fierycloud) > 3. Pacific BX 163 (Dell Sherk) > 4. Re: Wiki Additions--Calydorea, Habranthus (J.E. Shields) > 5. Re: Wiki Additions--Calydorea, Habranthus (Mary Sue Ittner) > 6. Wiki Additions-Calochortus (meg570@comcast.net) > 7. Re: One is the loneliest... (Cameron McMaster) > 8. Nerine sarniensis and Guernsey (Jim McKenney) > 9. Re: Wiki Additions-Calochortus (Mary Sue Ittner) > 10. Re: Wiki Additions-Calochortus (Jim McKenney) > 11. Re: Asking for a hint of world map of chilling hours Please? > (John Grimshaw) > 12. Re: Moraea hiemalis seed (Ronald Redding) > 13. Re: Wiki Additions-Calochortus (Douglas Westfall) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 09:40:48 -0300 > From: German Roitman > Subject: Re: [pbs] Wiki Additions--Calydorea, Habranthus > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20080103092137.01c87288@mail.agro.uba.ar> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed > > Hello > > Thanks Mary Sue for comunicate this additions, > here are the links for the articles: > > http://www.agro.uba.ar/users/roitman/habranthus_sanavirone_novon.pdf > > http://www.agro.uba.ar/users/roitman/calydorea_minimaSAB.pdf > > > During 2006 we have also published an article > about the presence of Habranthus cardenasianus in > Argentina, i have add two pictures and a brief text in the habranthus > page. > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/habranthus_cardenasianus_GR2.jpg > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/habranthus_cardenasianus_GR1.jpg > > The article is also available here: > > http://www.agro.uba.ar/users/roitman/Habranthus_cardenasianusSAB.pdf > > > During the next months there will be some news > about Iridaceae and Amaryllidaceae from South America. > > Best wishes > > Germ?n > > > At 14:39 02/01/2008, you wrote: >>Hi, >> >>There are two new recently described species from Argentina. Germ?n >>Roitman >>has kindly supplied pictures and information about them for the wiki. >>The first is Calydorea minima, bogs in northern Argentina and Paraguay: >>http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Calydorea#minima >> >>and the second is Habranthus sanavirone, sandy soil in central Argentina: >>http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Habranthus#sanavirone >> >>If I get permission from Germ?n, I'll add the pdf files that describe >>these >>new species to the wiki and link them to these species. In the meantime if >>there is someone who is really interested in either of these articles, >>please email me privately. >> >>Mary Sue >> >>_______________________________________________ >>pbs mailing list >>pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: >>269.17.13/1206 - Release Date: 01/01/2008 12:09 > > _________________________ > Ing. Agr. MSc. Germ?n Roitman > Director Carrera de Jardiner?a > FAUBA > _________________________ > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:25:03 +0800 > From: "Fierycloud" > Subject: [pbs] Asking for a hint of world map of chilling hours > Please? > To: > Message-ID: <77B28D0D91E14EB6BA25D08F6CB16A04@2F1> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="big5" > > Happy New Year: > > I'm looking for the whole-world version of the chilling hours map. > http://www.raintreenursery.com/indexpics/chill-unit-map3.gif > > Could someone give me a hint please? > I would like to try the bulbous species which might have less chilling > hours than the others. > > And sorry that I just can't find a original map from the university. Only > from the commercial web. > > Kind Regards > > It's our coldest time in a year. 12 C around 53.6 F > Fierycloud, Taiwan (USDA Z11+ , AHS Z12+) > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:21:59 -0500 > From: "Dell Sherk" > Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 163 > To: "'Adam Fikso'" , "'c'" > , "'Macfarlane'" , > "'Mark'" , "'Mark Wilcox'" , > "Pat Colville" , "PBS list" > , "The Masterson Family" > Message-ID: <20080103142216.554774C010@lists.ibiblio.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear All, > > > > The items listed below have been donated by our members to be > shared. > > > > If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me > PRIVATELY > at . Include "BX 163" in the subject line. > > > > Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not > specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, > too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first > come, > first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, > included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/item) > (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) > you > should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and > first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. > > > > PLEASE NOTE: NEW POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE > ON > EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. > > > > Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not > members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO > MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take > advantage > of future offers such as this. Go to our website: > > .... > > > > If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the > PBS,(Donors > will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their > donations.), > please send CLEAN, clearly labeled material to: > > > > Dell Sherk > > 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. > > New Hope, PA, 18938 > > USA > > > > I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. > IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! > > > >From Jerry Flintoff: > > > > SEED: > > > > 1. Fritillaria raddeana > > 2. Lilium ex. 'Early Bird' (martagon-hansonii hybrid) > > 3. Calochortus amoenus, white form > > 4. Gladiolus longicollis > > > >From Ton de Waard: > > > > 5. Small corms of Crocosmia, orange flowers, 2 ft tall. Original corms > were > w/c on Madeira 12 yrs ago. Hardy to Zone 7. May be 'Lady Wilson' > > > > SEED: > > > > 6. Dahlia, mixed dark-leafed hybrids > > 7. Dahlia 'Pooh' > > 8. Cyclamen creticum > > 9. Tigridia pavonia, red > > 10. Mirabilis jalapa, red or pink > > > > Thank you, Jerry and Ton !! > > > > Best wishes, > > Dell > > > > Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 09:34:02 -0500 > From: "J.E. Shields" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Wiki Additions--Calydorea, Habranthus > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20080103092340.02750790@pop.indy.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed > > Hi all, > > I want to thank Germ?n for posting links to the PDF files of his > articles. I would be most grateful if all authors would provide us with > such convenient access to their original papers. > > Best regards, > Jim Shields > in very cold, snowy central Indiana (USA) > > > At 09:40 AM 1/3/2008 -0300, you wrote: >>Hello >> >>........ >>here are the links for the articles: >> >>http://www.agro.uba.ar/users/roitman/habranthus_sanavirone_novon.pdf >> >>http://www.agro.uba.ar/users/roitman/calydorea_minimaSAB.pdf >> >>......... >> >>http://www.agro.uba.ar/users/roitman/Habranthus_cardenasianusSAB.pdf >> >> >>During the next months there will be some news >>about Iridaceae and Amaryllidaceae from South America. >> >>Best wishes >> >>Germ?n > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 09:01:17 -0800 > From: Mary Sue Ittner > Subject: Re: [pbs] Wiki Additions--Calydorea, Habranthus > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20080103085103.034a8c68@mail.mcn.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed > > Hi, > > I've added links for the Calydorea and Habranthus articles to the wiki so > they will be easily accessible to all. Thanks so much to Germ?n for making > them available. I invite you to look at the Habranthus wiki page: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Habranthus > when you look at the new pictures of Habranthus cardenasianus as the links > that Germ?n so kindly gave you are not going to work. > > Mary Sue > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:41:46 +0000 > From: meg570@comcast.net > Subject: [pbs] Wiki Additions-Calochortus > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: > <010320081741.19148.477D1E5A00061FEC00004ACC2200750744CFC9CA090A03@comcast.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain > > I have added a number of new Calochortus photos to the PBS website, > including many of the Mexican species. Many thanks to Mary Sue Ittner for > guiding me through the logistics of posting these, as well as for making > some additional Calochortus pages. I will add more Calochortus photos over > the next few weeks > The additions are here > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesOne > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesTwo > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesThree > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesFour > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesFive > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesSix > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesSeven > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CalochortusSpeciesEight > > > Mary Gerritsen > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 20:48:48 +0200 > From: "Cameron McMaster" > Subject: Re: [pbs] One is the loneliest... > To: > Message-ID: <009301c84e39$da7a7520$213dd0c4@mcmasterdae8d5> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Jim wrote: Ipheion uniflorum as the name suggests should have a single > flower per fan of foliage. I think so. Does anyone have an alternate > experience? Does it ever have 2 or more per ? > > Two 'lonely' species I can think of off-hand are Disa uniflora and > Baeometra uniflora - both are most likely to have more than one flower! > > Rhoda > > Napier, SA, with Cyrtanthus carneus, Thereianthus bracteolus, Aristea > oligocephala and Tritoniopsis unguicularis flowering in the wild, and > Watsonia schlechteri about to flower. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:30:26 -0500 > From: "Jim McKenney" > Subject: [pbs] Nerine sarniensis and Guernsey > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" > Message-ID: <003001c84e3f$1a7d13d0$2f01a8c0@Library> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > A local friend and I have been emailing back and forth this morning on the > subject of Nerine culture. This was prompted by her mention of another > friend who grows Nerine. > > > > One outcome of this was my being given a link to Nerine on the > PlantzAfrica > site, in particular to an article written by Graham Duncan. In that > article, > Duncan casts doubt on the story that Nerine sarniensis was introduced to > Guernsey as flotsam (or was it as jetsam?) in the mid-seventeenth century. > Here's the link to the article. > > > > http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantnop/nerinesarnien.htm > > > > Does anyone know what the evidence is for this doubt? > > > > The reason I'm asking is that I know that the story of the shipwreck and > the > Nerine has been told since at least the last decades of the seventeenth > century. In other words, the story dates at least from the period about > thirty years after the actual shipwreck event, from a time when it seems > reasonable to assume there were still those who remembered the events in > question. > > > > > > Jim McKenney > > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the temperature has > not > gotten above the freezing point yet today. > > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com > > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > > > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org > > > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 11:29:38 -0800 > From: Mary Sue Ittner > Subject: Re: [pbs] Wiki Additions-Calochortus > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20080103110856.02cd2478@mail.mcn.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > In case some of you have not made the connection, Mary Gerritsen is one of > the authors of the Calochortus book published this year by Timber > Press. It includes descriptions, color photos, habitat and cultivation > information about every major group and species. Mary has spent > considerable time adding a lot of really valuable information about this > genus to the wiki and resizing and renaming her pictures so they could be > added to the wiki. Most of her pictures were taken in habitat as she has > traveled to find the different species. New species added are Calochortus > balsensis, Calochoruts cernus, Calochortus davidsonianus, Calochortus > exilis, Calochortus fuscus, Calochortus greenei, Calochortus > hartwegii, Calochortus leichtlinnii, Calochortus mendozae, Calochortus > nigrescens, Calochortus ownbeyi, Calochortus persistens, Calochortus > pringlei, Calochortus purpureus, Calochortus spatulatus, and Calochortus > subalpinus. In addition she has added habitat shots of some of the species > already on the wiki. And there is more to come. For Calochortus > enthusiasts > everywhere it is wonderful to have this information be so readily > available. Thank you Mary. > > Mary Sue > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:37:56 -0500 > From: "Jim McKenney" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Wiki Additions-Calochortus > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" > Message-ID: <003501c84e40$24b9d0d0$2f01a8c0@Library> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Thanks, Mary Gerritsen, for posting those images. I'm a newbie with > Calochortus, but the few I've grown have me hooked. > > Some of them look a lot like frits at first glance, and something about > the > small dark red ones, especially Calochortus pringlei, remind me of the > "chocolate cosmos". > > Hmmm...I wonder if I can make room for an expanded Calochortus collection > beside the Fritillaria collection? > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Crocus pallasii and > C. > ochroleucus are in bloom in a cold frame. > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:01:55 -0000 > From: "John Grimshaw" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Asking for a hint of world map of chilling hours > Please? > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Message-ID: <034201c84e4b$e036a350$0201a8c0@John> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="big5"; > reply-type=original > > Fierycloud: > > Please could you tell us the units measured by the thermoclines on the map > of chilling hours - so many hours at how many degrees? It was impossible > to > tell from the image. > > John Grimshaw > > > Dr John M. Grimshaw > Sycamore Cottage > Colesbourne > Nr Cheltenham > Gloucestershire GL53 9NP > > Tel. 01242 870567 > > COLESBOURNE PARK SNOWDROP OPEN DAYS 2008 > January 26/27 and every Saturday & Sunday in February > Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm > website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fierycloud" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:25 PM > Subject: [pbs] Asking for a hint of world map of chilling hours Please? > > > Happy New Year: > > I'm looking for the whole-world version of the chilling hours map. > http://www.raintreenursery.com/indexpics/chill-unit-map3.gif > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 07:22:51 +1000 > From: Ronald Redding > Subject: Re: [pbs] Moraea hiemalis seed > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Rogan > > I don't want any seeds, I don't think my climate would be very helpful in > preserving these plants, however I just wanted to say I have been touched > by your generosity and the effort you have gone to in order to share these > seeds.Kind Regards and Best WishesRon ReddingHervey BayAustralia >> Anyway, I collected a quantity of Moraea hiemalis seed recently in the >> Drakensberg mountains, enough to send to the bulb and seed X and to >> anyone else who may be interested in growing this plant (...and yes, I >> can send you collection data if you should require it). You can see it >> at: >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MoraeaSpeciesFive#hiemalis > >> > Please contact me PRIVATELY with your postal address if you would like >> some of this seed.> > Best regards> Rogan.> > Please find our Email >> Disclaimer here: http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer/> >> _______________________________________________> pbs mailing list> >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php> >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _________________________________________________________________ > What are you waiting for? Join Lavalife FREE > http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D30288&_t=764581033&_r=email_taglines_Join_free_OCT07&_m=EXT > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 13:46:53 -0800 > From: Douglas Westfall > Subject: Re: [pbs] Wiki Additions-Calochortus > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: <061F8B08-540C-4F60-8303-124C26449BAC@flash.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Mary Sue and Mary Gerritsen, > > The pages are fantastic!!! While I have grown some Calochortus (one > pic. in the group) I had NO IDEA that there are so many in the family. > The pictures are almost enough to make me give up my Haemanthus and > Scadoxus. > > Doug Westfall > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 60, Issue 3 > ********************************** > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1208 - Release Date: > 03/01/2008 15:52 > > From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Fri Jan 4 10:30:14 2008 Message-Id: <12726668.2560451199454248710.JavaMail.www@wwinf1a36> From: Mark BROWN Subject: tetra snowdrops? Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 14:44:08 +0100 (CET) Dear Diane Whitehead, i only know of the tretraploid form of rizehensis which multiplies like a weed and has fused twin headed flowers or frequently two or more flowers to a scape and many other infirmities.All other forms of this species can be excruciatingly slow.My original clone from Potterton & Martin in the early eighties has made a small clump after all these years.One form that I collected in turkey recently flowers in November every year for the last two years.Quite a surprise.it was growing very low down near the black sea compared to all other populations.It seems to grow well but slowly,better than my original P. & M. form. 25 different galanthus in full flower on the 30th of jan.Since then it is spiralling out of count. Kind regards, Mark W. Brown > Message du 03/01/08 23:58 > De : "Diane Whitehead" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] tetra snowdrops? > > I've been scrutinizing my two snowdrop books in preparation for the > season. > > In Snowdrops, by John Grimshaw and Aaron Davis, it was written that > Dr. Ben Zonneveld of Leiden University was measuring the amount of DNA > in snowdrop species and some cultivars, using Flow Cytometry. > > In 2003, Zonneveld, Grimshaw and Davis, published an article about > this in Plant Systematics and Evolution. > > Tetraploids were found in Galanthus transcaucasicus and hexaploids in > G. elwesii and G. lagodechianus. > > I grow a lot of elwesii. Does this mean that some of them are likely > to be hexaploid? Would I look for the biggest ones? > > I have read that some of the best-known snowdrops, like Magnet, are > triploid, which means they are sterile. > > Is there a list somewhere of tetraploid snowdrop cultivars? > > Diane Whitehead > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate > mild rainy winters, mild dry summers > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From jshields@indy.net Fri Jan 4 12:22:38 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080104092632.00b078d0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Moraea hiemalis seed Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:50:53 -0500 Hi all, I looked up Moraea hiemalis in Peter Goldblatt's "The Moraeas of Southern Africa" and found it limited in range to central KwaZulu-Natal, at elevations from 1000 to 2000 meters. It should be a summer growing plant, given its native habitat. It produces a single leaf. It apparently flowers in mid-winter, at the end of its growing season, often with no leaf left or only a part of the leaf remaining green. I would suggest growing it in a greenhouse in winter and moving its pot outdoors for the summer, in full sun, at least in climates like mine where the temperatures go well below freezing in winter. In my experience, certain of the Moraea resent being transplanted, although not as much as the Dierama resent it. So it might be well to sow seeds in the pots where you expect to grow them for the first several years. I'd be interested in hearing what experiences others have had growing Moraea hiemalis in the garden or greenhouse. Best wishes, Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA), where the sun has come out and the snow should melt off today ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Jan 5 14:36:07 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: 1 is the loneliest number - part 3? Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 13:14:58 -0600 Dear friends, Thanks for the on and off line replies. Clearly Ipheion uniflorum can occasionally produce a scape with more than 1 flower. Multiple writers report 2 flowers on various cvs. Having a pot of bulbs blooming in the dining room allows me to notice things I'd pass right by in the garden. Last fall (07) I was sent some bulbs of Ipheion 'Jessie' a relatively new cv. said to have the most intense blue flowers and a sport of I. 'Rolf Fiedler'. The start of bloom started this thread. I mentioned in my first note that there was one flower per stem and one scape per fan. Clearly neither is true. One of my bulbs - oddly with the smallest growth has a stem with 3 flowers ( 2 open, the third starting) and multiple bulbs with a single foliage fan are putting up their second stalks each. So there goes two of my 'claims', but the multi - flowered stem intrigues me. Can I mark this bulb and will it continue to be multi - flowered in following bloom seasons? I can't really make a claim for the color. Although the flowers are very rich blue, It has been years since 'Rolf Fiedler' has bloomed here (not terribly hardy) so my recall could VERY WELL be off. Even so it does not seen quite as intense as 'RF'. And the foliage looks more like a typical uniflorum and less like the slightly off foliage of 'RF' also. I assume that outdoors where the buds will develop in cooler temps, the color will be even deeper and richer blue. If the color holds true and the plant proves as hardy as typical uniflorum, it will be a welcome addition to the garden. I did plant a few bulbs out too, but these have not yet emerged from todays melting ice; a later report. Many thanks for your comments. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Sun Jan 6 01:01:47 2008 Message-Id: <47806EBF.7020601@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: off-topic botanical question: Curious about shrubs as a gardening term Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 22:01:35 -0800 I have been doing some studying about garden terms and have a botanical question. I was looking at Phygelius information and it was identified as a shrub. I had previously called it a perennial. So what differentiates a shrub from other perennials? I noticed some authors by-pass this problem by calling certain plants "sub-shrubs." And how does something like Yucca or Hesperaloe fit in? Are they shrubs also, even though they are succulent? Thanks for considering this... Marguerite, still growing mostly Iridaceae and Zephyranthes, and developing a new cottage-like garden for my local arid, dry and windy planting conditions at 3700 feet in southern California mountains. From jamievande@freenet.de Sun Jan 6 06:24:26 2008 Message-Id: <4780BA68.5060507@freenet.de> From: "JamieV." Subject: off-topic botanical question: Curious about shrubs as a gardening term Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:24:24 +0100 Margeurite, as far as I know, shrub is not a scientific term, rather a gardening term that has worked its way into general use. For myself, a shrub must have a permanent set of woody stems and branches that continue into growth each season. Some shrubs are very large, such as some Magnolia, while others are quite small, as we find in Rhododenron. In my garden Phygelius is a small shrub reaching about 2 meters. Yucca is not woody, therefore I wouldn't call any of its relatives shrubs. Some people may argue this, but the stems of woody plants and succulents are structurally quite different. The term sub-shrub is bantered about without real definition, imo. I have imagined it as a small shrub-like perennial, such as Thymus or Salvia have, that is too ephemeral to truly overwinter/rest. We may place Penstemon in this category, as well. They do form shrubs, but they do not last. If not for their rootstock, they would not survive. What I see as true shrubs, if the entire top was removed (not simply cut back hard), the root stock would probably not recover. For me this is a practical division, but I doubt sound enough for scientific definition. Using this definition, I would consider Fuchsia a shrub, but perhaps not in all species and all climates. Hope this helps. It is really just another educated opinion. Jamie V. Cologne Germany Zone 8 Marguerite English schrieb: > I have been doing some studying about garden terms and have a botanical > question. I was looking at Phygelius information and it was identified > as a shrub. I had previously called it a perennial. So what > differentiates a shrub from other perennials? I noticed some authors > by-pass this problem by calling certain plants "sub-shrubs." And how > does something like Yucca or Hesperaloe fit in? Are they shrubs also, > even though they are succulent? > > Thanks for considering this... Marguerite, still growing > mostly Iridaceae and Zephyranthes, and developing a new cottage-like > garden for my local arid, dry and windy planting conditions at 3700 feet > in southern California mountains. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Sun Jan 6 13:19:15 2008 Message-Id: <47811BA2.2040602@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: off-topic botanical question: Curious about shrubs as a gardening term Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 10:19:14 -0800 Thanks, Jamie. JamieV. wrote: > > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun Jan 6 19:56:34 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Species Iris Group Seed Exchange Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 18:56:09 -0600 Dear Friends, The Species Iris Group of North America (SIGNA) recently mailed its annual seed list to members in its fall newsletter. The new seed list and information is posted as a pdf file at http://64.37.80.180/signa/SeedExchange-Pg1.pdf and http://64.37.80.180/signa/SeedExchange-Pg2.pdf Seed may be ordered from the list with payment by PayPal. If you are not a member of SIGNA you can join and order seeds at the same time. SIGNA information is at http://64.37.80.180/signa/intro.htm SIGNA is a cooperative society of the American Iris Society. I hope you'll find much of interest. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Jan 7 00:56:46 2008 Message-Id: <0F707332-3A5B-4EEB-80F1-40D977662CCE@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: autumn blooming narcissus hybrids Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 21:56:25 -0800 There is a picture in the wiki of a group of fall-blooming narcissus grown by Harold Koopowitz and taken to a pbs meeting in 2003. The flowers vary a lot. There is no written information about them, though. Does anyone know more? Diane Whitehead From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Mon Jan 7 02:30:48 2008 Message-Id: <00b201c850ff$37e2eb80$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: off-topic botanical question: Curious about shrubs as a gardening term Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 07:30:45 -0000 "JamieV." wrote: > as far as I know, shrub is not a scientific term, rather a gardening > term that has worked its way into general use. For myself, a shrub must > have a permanent set of woody stems and branches that continue into > growth each season. Shrub is a perfectly good botanical term (with Latin equivalent, frutex) for a woody plant that branches from the base, as opposed to a tree, which is technically a 'single-stemmed' woody plant - both of course having the "permanent set of woody stems and branches that continue into growth each season". There is of course a continuum between shrubs and trees in terms of growth form and the distinction is very artificial. The fact is that we do not possess a precise vocabulary for distinguishing plants into growth-form categories and inevitably some taxa are shoehorned into slots they do not deserve - Yucca as a shrub being one. They are semi-succulent rosette plants with a pseudo-woody base or trunk. 'Subshrub' is a horrible term, as Jamie points out, as it's a catch-all name that covers anything that isn't really woody but has perennating stems - but there is no real alternative in general hortico-botanical terminology. Phygelius is an excellent example of how plants do not conform to our terms. In most of the UK it acts as a shrubby plant, with overwintering softly woody stems emerging from the base, although it is often cut back hard in spring to stimulate new growth and keep it in bounds. In favoured places these stems can persist and can be trained against a wall to form a thick stem. In harsher climates, and this includes its native South Africa, Phygelius capensis can be cut to the ground by frost and re-emerge each year as annual shoots, just like any other perennial. John Grimshaw > > > Marguerite English schrieb: >> I have been doing some studying about garden terms and have a botanical >> question. I was looking at Phygelius information and it was identified >> as a shrub. I had previously called it a perennial. From jamievande@freenet.de Mon Jan 7 02:43:06 2008 Message-Id: <4781D7F7.3070007@freenet.de> From: "JamieV." Subject: off-topic botanical question: Curious about shrubs as a gardening term Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 08:42:47 +0100 John, thanks! It's a good day, when you learn something new. And I'm reading this in the early morning, so today should be great. Ciao, Jamie V. Cologne Germany John Grimshaw schrieb: > Shrub is a perfectly good botanical term (with Latin equivalent, frutex) for > a woody plant that branches from the base, as opposed to a tree, which is > technically a 'single-stemmed' woody plant - both of course having the > "permanent set of woody stems and branches that continue into growth each > season". There is of course a continuum between shrubs and trees in terms of > growth form and the distinction is very artificial. > > > John Grimshaw > > From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Jan 7 08:03:09 2008 Message-Id: <000301c8512d$e4531f10$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: off-topic botanical question: Curious about shrubs as agardening term Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:04:50 -0500 John Grimshaw wrote: " There is of course a continuum between shrubs and trees in terms of growth form and the distinction is very artificial." Another example of just how artificial this distinction is became apparent to me from some recent reading. It seems that the cottonwood trees which cloak so many western North American mountainsides are, technically, not really trees. Or at least not all of them. Why? Because these cottonwood trees are said to spread by underground growths to form connected colonies. In effect, the tree we see is actually part of what is really a shrub, the diagnostic connecting parts being underground and not immediately apparent. This also reminded me of the structure of the flowering stems of Erythronium multiscapoideum: what appear to be multiple flowering stems are actually one stem which typically branches below ground to give the impression that there are several stems. John also mentioned the botanical term frutex. Derived from this is frutescens (becoming shrubby), which is sometimes used to translate subshrub. And this reminds me: I still have plants of Bulbine frutescens (the "subshrubby" Bulbine)if anyone would like a piece. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where we are experiencing unseasonably mild weather - temperatures might reach 70 degrees F in this area this week. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From Ger.Stickroth@t-online.de Mon Jan 7 10:10:31 2008 Message-Id: <1JBtaf-295OYy0@fwd27.aul.t-online.de> From: Ger.Stickroth@t-online.de (Gerhard Stickroth) Subject: off-topic botanical question: Curious about shrubs as agardening term Date: 07 Jan 2008 15:08 GMT Hey Roger Whitlock, where are you? Cottonwood trees aren't bulbs either. Remember your nasty comment you wrote when I asked about hepaticas on 4 Dec 2006. Gerhard Stickroth "Jim McKenney" schrieb: > John Grimshaw wrote: " There is of course a continuum between shrubs and > trees in terms of > growth form and the distinction is very artificial." > > Another example of just how artificial this distinction is became apparent > to me from some recent reading. It seems that the cottonwood trees which > cloak so many western North American mountainsides are, technically, not > really trees. Or at least not all of them. > > Why? Because these cottonwood trees are said to spread by underground > growths to form connected colonies. In effect, the tree we see is actually > part of what is really a shrub, the diagnostic connecting parts being > underground and not immediately apparent. > > This also reminded me of the structure of the flowering stems of Erythronium > multiscapoideum: what appear to be multiple flowering stems are actually one > stem which typically branches below ground to give the impression that there > are several stems. > > John also mentioned the botanical term frutex. Derived from this is > frutescens (becoming shrubby), which is sometimes used to translate > subshrub. And this reminds me: I still have plants of Bulbine frutescens > (the "subshrubby" Bulbine)if anyone would like a piece. > > > Jim McKenney > mailto:jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where we are experiencing > unseasonably mild weather - temperatures might reach 70 degrees F in this > area this week. > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From paph2@earthlink.net Mon Jan 7 11:16:06 2008 Message-Id: From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: autumn blooming narcissus hybrids Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 08:15:53 -0800 Diane: I have written about some of my autumn hybridizing program. It is in the RHS' Daffodils, Snowdrops and Tulips Yearbook 2005-6. I also show my new hybrids on the American daffodil society's e-list. Probably at least 20 new postings this year. I also have a range of winter flowering hybrids. Harold At 09:56 PM 1/6/2008, you wrote: >There is a picture in the wiki of a group of fall-blooming narcissus >grown by Harold Koopowitz and taken to a pbs meeting in 2003. The >flowers vary a lot. There is no written information about them, though. > >Does anyone know more? > >Diane Whitehead > > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon Jan 7 13:54:27 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: off-topic botanical question: Curious about shrubs as a gardening term Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:41:25 -0600 > So what >differentiates a shrub from other perennials? I noticed some authors >by-pass this problem by calling certain plants "sub-shrubs." Dear Friends, Although others have commented I think the basic question remains untouched. Marguerite, you are mixing multiple categories. 1. Shrub is not an alternate to perennial. Botanically speaking...... As John Grimshaw explained a 'shrub' is woody plant including trees and some vines. A perennial is a plant that lives for 2 or more seasons and usually blooms annually. 2. There is also a horticultural vocabulary being mixed up here. A horticultural shrub can be anything that makes a small compact 'bush of foliage and flowers. These can be woody such as a lilac or rose or herbaceous such as a peony. Horticulturally a perennial is herbaceous and deciduous (mostly) and can be bulbs, a true herbaceous plant even some woody ( or nearly so) plants. So Phygelius is often a woody plant that is grown as a perennial 'in some climates'. It can get shrubby looking. Yucca is a woody plant that looks shrubby. An important distinction is that tropical plants may flaunt these rules and temperate relatives of tropical plants can 'behave' like something else. And some plants don't fit very well into boxes. Succulents are especially tricky. Cacti are perennials, but 'tree cacti' are not generally considered 'woody' plants. Same for tree Dracena, Euphorbia etc. Yucca, Aloe, Hawarthia can reach good size, but size alone does not make a plant woody or shrubby - tree dahlia, Arundo donax, herbaceous Hibiscus can reach 15 ft in one season's growth, and annual vines can reach 40 feet in a good summer. None are woody or true trees or shrubs. Darn pigeon holes. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From butterflyamaryllis@yahoo.com Mon Jan 7 16:51:13 2008 Message-Id: <931774.64938.qm@web33908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: off-topic botanical question: Curious about shrubs as a gardening term Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 13:51:12 -0800 (PST) Shrub = any plant that gathers leaves, walmart bags or fast food cups and keeps them for your yard cleaning leisure. James Waddick wrote: > So what >differentiates a shrub from other perennials? I noticed some authors >by-pass this problem by calling certain plants "sub-shrubs." Dear Friends, Although others have commented I think the basic question remains untouched. Marguerite, you are mixing multiple categories. 1. Shrub is not an alternate to perennial. Botanically speaking...... As John Grimshaw explained a 'shrub' is woody plant including trees and some vines. A perennial is a plant that lives for 2 or more seasons and usually blooms annually. 2. There is also a horticultural vocabulary being mixed up here. A horticultural shrub can be anything that makes a small compact 'bush of foliage and flowers. These can be woody such as a lilac or rose or herbaceous such as a peony. Horticulturally a perennial is herbaceous and deciduous (mostly) and can be bulbs, a true herbaceous plant even some woody ( or nearly so) plants. So Phygelius is often a woody plant that is grown as a perennial 'in some climates'. It can get shrubby looking. Yucca is a woody plant that looks shrubby. An important distinction is that tropical plants may flaunt these rules and temperate relatives of tropical plants can 'behave' like something else. And some plants don't fit very well into boxes. Succulents are especially tricky. Cacti are perennials, but 'tree cacti' are not generally considered 'woody' plants. Same for tree Dracena, Euphorbia etc. Yucca, Aloe, Hawarthia can reach good size, but size alone does not make a plant woody or shrubby - tree dahlia, Arundo donax, herbaceous Hibiscus can reach 15 ft in one season's growth, and annual vines can reach 40 feet in a good summer. None are woody or true trees or shrubs. Darn pigeon holes. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Jan 7 17:02:18 2008 Message-Id: <000701c85179$36e48de0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: off-topic botanical question: Curious about shrubs as agardening term Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 17:04:01 -0500 James Frelichowski wrote: " Shrub = any plant that gathers leaves, walmart bags or fast food cups and keeps them for your yard cleaning leisure." If that's the case, then sub-shrubs must be the highly specialized ones which gather only hoagie wrappers. Note for those of you who don't know about one of Philadelphia's contribution to great American cuisine: a hoagie is what is more widely known as a submarine. Jim McKenney From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Mon Jan 7 17:56:46 2008 Message-Id: <4782AE2D.1000708@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: off-topic botanical question: Curious about shrubs as agardening term Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:56:45 -0800 Thank you all for your ideas. They give me a lot to mull over, as I continue to attempt a general gardening classification to keep pages of photos small for a web page. I love this group! Firstly, you know a lot and give good information, but secondly some of your answers are pretty funny! :-) Marguerite, Still trying to grow mostly Iridaceae and Zephyranthes at 3700 ft. in the cold, very wet mountains of Southern California. From msittner@mcn.org Mon Jan 7 19:05:32 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080107150056.0350ae80@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions: Calochortus, Xanthorrhoea Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:05:10 -0800 Hi, Mary Gerritsen has added these new Calochortus species since the last announcement: Calochortus apiculatus, coeruleus, kennedyi, nudus, nuttallii, tiburonensis You can access them here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Calochortus At least in Mozilla Firefox, you can just go back and get the next one from the table. This saves me having to do a link for each of these. The ongoing off topic discussion about shrubs, subshrubs, trees, and perennials seems an appropriate time to announce another new wiki addition. This is one of those genera that some people will be unhappy that I have included in the wiki. We decided long ago to err on the side of inclusiveness and as Lee P. has said have included plants that are relatives and may not technically be appropriate for the wiki. This genus is so interesting that I wanted to share it with those members of our group who do not know about it. Xanthorrhoea is an Australian genus that used to be in Liliaceae, but is now considered to be in its own family, Xanthorrhoeaceae . This family optionally includes the families Asphodelaceae and Hemerocallidaceae by APG II, families that have genera we often consider as belonging to our topic. Some Xanthorrhoea produce annual tubers during the growth cycle. So what are Xanthorrhoaeas? Shrubs, trees, perennials? Kew describes most of the species as nanophanerophytes, but a few as hemicryptophytes. nanophanerophyte stems: woody and persisting for several years buds: above soil level but normally below 3 m e.g.: shrubs hemicryptophyte stems: herbaceous, often dying back after the growing season, with shoots at soil level surviving buds: just on or below soil level e.g.: Aster, Viola odorata In Australia these are known as Grass Trees since the leaves are grass like. Some of the species rarely bloom except after fires which stimulates them into a reproduction cycle. There is a very long spike with small flowers opening first on the north side of the scape. Don Journet showed us pictures of them in bloom in mass when we visited him and I was envious of his opportunity to witness this. But then we were fortunate to see many in bloom in the Grampians where there had been fires in the summer. There is a lot of activity with pollinators buzzing around the flowers and apparently also birds looking for the pollinators according to one of my books, but we didn't witness this. Although they are most remarkable when they are in bloom, I think they are attractive too with light shining through the leaves as in my last example of an unknown species. The other species I identified mostly by what could grow in the areas we were in and by the process of elimination as they couldn't have been some of the other possible species. I understand you have to look at the leaves in cross section to be sure. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Xanthorrhoea It is interesting that our local fire sensitive bloomer, Xerophyllum tenax, also has a common name that includes grass (Bear Grass), used to be in the Liliaceae family and starts with X. When it doesn't bloom here, which is most of the time, when you see it you never expect what the flowers would look like if it did bloom. You might think it was a Carex. I only have slides of it so adding it to the wiki will have to await help from someone else or seeing it in bloom in the future. Mary Sue From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Mon Jan 7 19:16:05 2008 Message-Id: <004701c8518b$a64bab20$1591115a@acer6281efdef1> From: "brown.mark" Subject: autumn blooming narcissus hybrids Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 01:16:00 +0100 Could we have some links to these images?Are any bulbs available and good garden plants? Kind regards, M.W.Brown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harold Koopowitz" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] autumn blooming narcissus hybrids > Diane: > I have written about some of my autumn hybridizing program. It is in > the RHS' Daffodils, Snowdrops and Tulips Yearbook 2005-6. > I also show my new hybrids on the American daffodil society's e-list. > Probably at least 20 new postings this year. I also have a range of > winter flowering hybrids. > Harold > > At 09:56 PM 1/6/2008, you wrote: >>There is a picture in the wiki of a group of fall-blooming narcissus >>grown by Harold Koopowitz and taken to a pbs meeting in 2003. The >>flowers vary a lot. There is no written information about them, though. >> >>Does anyone know more? >> >>Diane Whitehead >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>pbs mailing list >>pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From paph2@earthlink.net Mon Jan 7 21:31:51 2008 Message-Id: From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: autumn blooming narcissus hybrids Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 18:31:42 -0800 These are excellent garden plants if you garden in a Mediterranean climate, otherwise you would need a cold frame or greenhouse. Links are not going to help you, you would have to join the daffodil group. Some of the species are available in the trade, but so far none of my hybrids. Harold At 04:16 PM 1/7/2008, you wrote: >Could we have some links to these images?Are any bulbs available and good >garden plants? >Kind regards, >M.W.Brown >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Harold Koopowitz" >To: "Pacific Bulb Society" >Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 5:15 PM >Subject: Re: [pbs] autumn blooming narcissus hybrids > > > > Diane: > > I have written about some of my autumn hybridizing program. It is in > > the RHS' Daffodils, Snowdrops and Tulips Yearbook 2005-6. > > I also show my new hybrids on the American daffodil society's e-list. > > Probably at least 20 new postings this year. I also have a range of > > winter flowering hybrids. > > Harold > > > > At 09:56 PM 1/6/2008, you wrote: > >>There is a picture in the wiki of a group of fall-blooming narcissus > >>grown by Harold Koopowitz and taken to a pbs meeting in 2003. The > >>flowers vary a lot. There is no written information about them, though. > >> > >>Does anyone know more? > >> > >>Diane Whitehead > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>pbs mailing list > >>pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >>http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >>http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Jan 7 22:09:19 2008 Message-Id: <000001c851a4$1a8661c0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Silly season, continued Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 22:11:02 -0500 I'm beginning to wonder if I need an eye exam. This evening I had some time to kill, so I ducked into the local Borders book store and wandered over to the gardening section. There I found a bewildering array of books, about most of which I knew nothing. My eyes glazed over as I scanned the shelves. I kept looking for something to peek into for awhile to help pass the time. And then I saw them, three compact little volumes with mauve pink covers. I thought the title said "bulbs", and so I pulled one out to take a look. As soon as I got it out from the shelf I realized I had made a bit of a mistake. The title didn't say "bulbs", it said "buds" , specifically marijuana buds. I sort of furtively looked around to see if anyone was watching, and quickly shoved the book back into its lair. Then I noticed that it had lots of companions: a good foot of shelf space seemed to be devoted to this topic. Years ago I had a coworker who had heard about my interest in gardening through the grapevine. Every once in a while he would come over to talk gardening. He was interested in only one thing: growing plants under high intensity lights. I think I know what he was trying to grow. Maybe I should go back to Borders and buy that book for him. Come to think of it, maybe I should check that book to see if he wrote it. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where our January heat wave continues and Iris unguicularis has responded by sending up two more flowers. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Jan 7 22:16:56 2008 Message-Id: <000101c851a5$2b708ff0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Xerophyllum; was RE: Wiki Additions: Calochortus, Xanthorrhoea Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 22:18:40 -0500 Mary Sue, let's try to keep the Xerophyllum idea going. I have images of the eastern species, Xerophyllum asphodeloides. I'm not sure where they are right now - they are not in my slide collection and they are not among the images taken with my current digital camera. They must be in the no-mans land of images taken with my first digital camera. And that no-mans land is in a computer I have not turned on for several years. I'll try to get over to the nearest Xerophyllum site I know (about an hour and a half west of where I live) this summer to get images. These are totally cool plants. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 where Crocus pallasii was wide open in the heat today. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Jan 7 22:35:05 2008 Message-Id: <000201c851a7$b4486210$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Wiki Additions: Calochortus, Xanthorrhoea Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 22:36:49 -0500 I have a question about the Calochortus longebarbatus images now on the wiki. Do both of Mary Gerritsen's images show the subspecies longebarbatus? Or is one subspecies longebarbatus and the other subspecies peckii? Wonderful genus, wonderful images! Thanks to all involved. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon Jan 7 22:41:45 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Xerophyllum; Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 19:41:29 -0800 I had no idea that Xerophyllum needs fire. I am sure I used to see them blooming every time I visited Mt. Rainier - we camped there often when I was a child. Diane Whitehead From msittner@mcn.org Mon Jan 7 23:06:25 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080107200104.0379ad28@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Xerophyllum; Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 20:05:16 -0800 Dear Diane, I believe its like the Australia genus I was describing. They can bloom without fire and some populations/species may bloom in a more regular fashion than others. Perhaps the ones in Mt. Ranier bloom every year. Fire is a good trigger for bloom and most of the populations where I live never bloom without it. Mary Sue From meg570@comcast.net Tue Jan 8 00:43:45 2008 Message-Id: <56E8095A-6956-4B77-836C-D6A63CCA3E5F@comcast.net> From: Mary Gerritsen Subject: Wiki Calochortus Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 21:43:31 -0800 The photo of Calochortus longebarbatus var. peckii took a little longer to prepare since it was scanned in from one of Ron Parsons 35 mm slides. It is posted now on the Calochortus wiki page; you should be able to see the differences now and I have added a little descriptive text as well. From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Tue Jan 8 02:13:09 2008 Message-Id: <3b9284cd0801072313r1b53dc29k12dabe9196650028@mail.gmail.com> From: "Jan Agoston" Subject: Xerophyllum; was RE: Wiki Additions: Calochortus, Xanthorrhoea Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 08:13:08 +0100 Dear All, As far as I know Xerophyllum tenax is the so called "beargrass" in floriculture, am I right? And is it really a sensu lato bulbous (including rhizome, tuberous root system, tuber, corm, pseudobulbs, stolon, ... etc...)? Thanx in advance! Jani From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Tue Jan 8 03:40:07 2008 Message-Id: <001401c851d2$0fcd3d70$0e18085a@acer6281efdef1> From: "brown.mark" Subject: autumn blooming narcissus hybrids Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 09:40:02 +0100 Thank you Harold. I have tried N.serotinus without much luck;but have a tazetta or two that are quite happy in warm spots flowering around the new year or Xmas. Kind regards , Mark W. Brown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harold Koopowitz" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 3:31 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] autumn blooming narcissus hybrids > These are excellent garden plants if you garden in a Mediterranean > climate, otherwise you would need a cold frame or greenhouse. Links > are not going to help you, you would have to join the daffodil group. > Some of the species are available in the trade, but so far none of my > hybrids. > Harold > > At 04:16 PM 1/7/2008, you wrote: >>Could we have some links to these images?Are any bulbs available and good >>garden plants? >>Kind regards, >>M.W.Brown >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Harold Koopowitz" >>To: "Pacific Bulb Society" >>Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 5:15 PM >>Subject: Re: [pbs] autumn blooming narcissus hybrids >> >> >> > Diane: >> > I have written about some of my autumn hybridizing program. It is in >> > the RHS' Daffodils, Snowdrops and Tulips Yearbook 2005-6. >> > I also show my new hybrids on the American daffodil society's e-list. >> > Probably at least 20 new postings this year. I also have a range of >> > winter flowering hybrids. >> > Harold >> > >> > At 09:56 PM 1/6/2008, you wrote: >> >>There is a picture in the wiki of a group of fall-blooming narcissus >> >>grown by Harold Koopowitz and taken to a pbs meeting in 2003. The >> >>flowers vary a lot. There is no written information about them, >> >>though. >> >> >> >>Does anyone know more? >> >> >> >>Diane Whitehead >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>pbs mailing list >> >>pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >>http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >>http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ >> > pbs mailing list >> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > >> > >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>pbs mailing list >>pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From butterflyamaryllis@yahoo.com Tue Jan 8 08:11:12 2008 Message-Id: <399310.64422.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: James Frelichowski Subject: Silly season, continued Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 05:11:10 -0800 (PST) I once had a roommate who would have loved to get that book. Another thing that is funny about looking for 'bulbs' is doing a google or ebay search and finding out that 'light bulbs' are a much bigger hit. Jim McKenney wrote: I'm beginning to wonder if I need an eye exam. This evening I had some time to kill, so I ducked into the local Borders book store and wandered over to the gardening section. There I found a bewildering array of books, about most of which I knew nothing. My eyes glazed over as I scanned the shelves. I kept looking for something to peek into for awhile to help pass the time. And then I saw them, three compact little volumes with mauve pink covers. I thought the title said "bulbs", and so I pulled one out to take a look. As soon as I got it out from the shelf I realized I had made a bit of a mistake. The title didn't say "bulbs", it said "buds" , specifically marijuana buds. I sort of furtively looked around to see if anyone was watching, and quickly shoved the book back into its lair. Then I noticed that it had lots of companions: a good foot of shelf space seemed to be devoted to this topic. Years ago I had a coworker who had heard about my interest in gardening through the grapevine. Every once in a while he would come over to talk gardening. He was interested in only one thing: growing plants under high intensity lights. I think I know what he was trying to grow. Maybe I should go back to Borders and buy that book for him. Come to think of it, maybe I should check that book to see if he wrote it. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where our January heat wave continues and Iris unguicularis has responded by sending up two more flowers. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Jan 8 08:45:29 2008 Message-Id: <000301c851fc$ea3ddb70$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Wiki Calochortus Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 08:46:46 -0500 Mary Gerritsen wrote: " The photo of Calochortus longebarbatus var. peckii took a little longer to prepare since it was scanned in from one of Ron Parsons 35 mm slides. It is posted now on the Calochortus wiki page; you should be able to see the differences now and I have added a little descriptive text as well." Thanks, Mary, it was worth the wait. Does this form spread by rhizomes or by forming bulbils in the leaf axils? It sounds like a good candidate for cultivation if it's at all tractable. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From jyourch@nc.rr.com Tue Jan 8 12:26:18 2008 Message-Id: <1722300.745001199813177770.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web12-z01> From: Jay Yourch Subject: First new flowers of 2008 Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 12:26:17 -0500 Hi all, My patch of Narcissus 'Rijnveld's Early Sensation' had 5 flowers open as of yesterday evening and with the continued warmth forecast for this week I expect that many more will be open by the weekend. Narcissus 'February Gold' and Galanthus elwesii are usually the next in sequence, but I haven't inspected their progress recently. There were flowers blooming in the garden on New Year's Day, on woody plants such as Camellia sasanqua, Prunus mume, and Rosmarinus officinalis, and on some bulbs such as Narcissus cantabricus and "Paperwhite" Narcissus, but they were leftovers from December and weren't new. 'Rijnveld's Early Sensation' is not a spectacular Narcissus, but it's very early and the flowers cope nicely with cold temperatures, so it's nice to have a patch somewhere in the garden to have something to enjoy when just about everything else is still dormant. Here's a link to my pictures of 'Rijnveld's Early Sensation from last year: Regards, Jay in central North Carolina From marie-paule.opdenakker@pandora.be Tue Jan 8 13:08:27 2008 Message-Id: <001401c85221$753ed6b0$5fbc8410$@opdenakker@pandora.be> From: "Marie-Paule" Subject: Xerophyllum tenax Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:08:23 +0100 Hello All, I have tried this plant a few times, but after a while they become yellow leaves and passed on to the plant haven!! Do they need much water? Or what soil do they need? Can anyone help? Regards, Marie-Paule Belgium From totototo@telus.net Tue Jan 8 13:46:24 2008 Message-Id: <20080108184623.F3RBD5HC42@priv-edtnaa05.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: off-topic botanical question: Curious about shrubs as a gardening term Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 10:47:45 -0800 On 7 Jan 08, at 7:30, John Grimshaw wrote: > The fact is that we do not possess a precise vocabulary for > distinguishing plants into growth-form categories and inevitably some > taxa are shoehorned into slots they do not deserve The problem is that Mother Nature doesn't much care for discrete categories with sharp dividing lines. She loves continua with lots of gray areas, thereby driving the logically minded to a state of utter despair. There are some fairly sharply defined groups of plants, of course: oaks and cyclamen being 2 examples. But not everything is so straightforward. These inevitable gray areas and ambiguities are something for newcomers to the Exciting World of Botanical Nomenclature to keep in mind, by the way. They even appertain to categories of categories such as "family" and "genus". -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@telus.net Tue Jan 8 13:46:24 2008 Message-Id: <20080108184623.22S089W389@priv-edtnaa05.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: off-topic botanical question: Curious about shrubs as a gardening term Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 10:47:45 -0800 One difficulty in sorting out what's a perennial and what's not is that the word is often used in a loose sense for the more precise "herbaceous perennial." The Hardy Plant Society in England had to deal with this issue years ago when they formed: what should they call themselves? "Perennial" wouldn't work as it was both too broad and too narrow -- some folks grow annuals and biennials and monocarps. "Herbaceous" was too narrow. The final choice of "hardy plant" is actually a very good one, including as it does trees, shrubs, bulbs, annuals, etc in addition to the classical plants of the "herbaceous border." Of course there are still gray areas to keep the pot boiling. Our local rock gardening club's show rules stipulate "hardy out of doors over an *average* winter", but that turns out to include pleiones. No body wants a show sans pleiones, so a blind eye is turned toward those who put them in the refrigerator for the winter and those who cover them with a thick blanket of dry oak leaves. The stipulation also covers plants that our occasional arctic cold spells spell death to. ["spells spell" -- I hope that makes sense.] -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From meg570@comcast.net Tue Jan 8 14:00:16 2008 Message-Id: <010820081900.1572.4783C83E0001F53F000006242206998499CFC9CA090A03@comcast.net> From: meg570@comcast.net Subject: Wiki Calochortus Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:00:14 +0000 Calochortus longebarbatus var. peckii produces bulbils in the leaf axils. Mary Gerritsen From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Jan 8 14:55:45 2008 Message-Id: <21200555.1199822145243.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: janemcgary@earthlink.net Subject: Xerophyllum tenax Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 11:55:44 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Marie-Paule asked,>I have tried this plant a few times, but after a while they become yellow >leaves and passed on to the plant haven!! > >Do they need much water? Or what soil do they need? Can anyone help? > Xerophyllum tenax (beargrass) typically grows in coniferous forests on slopes or, at least, in very well drained soils, full of rocks and gravel. It can grow in shade but usually flowers better in sun, when forest fires or logging removes nearby trees. Wild plants do not flower every year. It grows within the elevation zone where there is snow all winter, so it's pretty dry except in fall before the snow comes, and in spring when the snow melts it is quite moist, though fast draining. It does not get much water in summer because it does not rain much then, and there are trees nearby. This plant is difficult to grow and is not seen in gardens at low elevations, even very near where it grows in nature. I can drive 20 minutes and be where it grows, but I don't think I could grow it in my garden, which is just below the usual snow line. It is also known to be very difficult to transplant. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From dells@voicenet.com Tue Jan 8 15:23:31 2008 Message-Id: <20080108202331.A09754C016@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Xerophyllum tenax Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 15:23:14 -0500 I have a nice photo of a stand of bear grass that I took on Mt Hood a couple of summers ago. When I figure out how to post it to the wiki I will. It is easy to see that it grows in volcanic rock and pumice. The site was not much lower down than Timberline Lodge which I think is at 6000 ft. There is also a fine photo on the cover of Bulbs of North America which Jane McGary edited. Dell -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of janemcgary@earthlink.net Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 2:56 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Xerophyllum tenax Marie-Paule asked,>I have tried this plant a few times, but after a while they become yellow >leaves and passed on to the plant haven!! > >Do they need much water? Or what soil do they need? Can anyone help? > Xerophyllum tenax (beargrass) typically grows in coniferous forests on slopes or, at least, in very well drained soils, full of rocks and gravel. It can grow in shade but usually flowers better in sun, when forest fires or logging removes nearby trees. Wild plants do not flower every year. It grows within the elevation zone where there is snow all winter, so it's pretty dry except in fall before the snow comes, and in spring when the snow melts it is quite moist, though fast draining. It does not get much water in summer because it does not rain much then, and there are trees nearby. This plant is difficult to grow and is not seen in gardens at low elevations, even very near where it grows in nature. I can drive 20 minutes and be where it grows, but I don't think I could grow it in my garden, which is just below the usual snow line. It is also known to be very difficult to transplant. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From msittner@mcn.org Tue Jan 8 16:07:03 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080108125949.0373f158@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Xerophyllum tenax Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 13:06:46 -0800 This plant grows at lower elevations where snow is rare as well. But as I said before it does not bloom very often. I recall that when an area near Fort Bragg, California (north coast) burned, it flowered well. This was a habitat with pygmy soil (wet with poor drainage and hardpan below, extremely -underlined- acidic soil.) I haven't examined the soil where I've seen it locally but I'd guess well-drained, dry in summer, well watered during the rainy season (some time in fall until some time in spring). So obviously different population have very different conditions and habitats. Mary Sue From brent.hine@ubc.ca Tue Jan 8 18:03:59 2008 Message-Id: <47840204.6030003@ubc.ca> From: brent hine Subject: Xerophyllum tenax Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:06:44 -0800 The Xerophyllum tenax which is in the garden I manage was introduced to our cultivation in 1974. It persists, but not surprisingly doesn't flower every year. (I think it was now 3 summers since I recall seeing two flower stalks) The soil surrounding the plants is gravelly and lean, and its aspect is on a west-facing 30 degree slope. Our summers are dry-ish during July and August. At that time, some overhead irrigation also reaches the plants, but the soil becomes rather dried out. Sometimes also in summer the plants look rather yellow, which is likely due to a lack of nourishment. Last week I cleaned up around them and found that as usual at this time of year, mice or other rodents have predated the stems. As well as one of their food sources, I've found balls of the leaves used as winter homes. I found them very snug and dry inside! Brent Hine Vancouver, BC UBC Botanical Garden zone 7a From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed Jan 9 09:04:03 2008 Message-Id: <000901c852c8$b83c5e40$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Unusual weather phenomenon Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 09:05:39 -0500 The unseasonably mild weather we’re experiencing is unusual enough, but yesterday there was an added twist. When I took the dog out for her morning walk, the sidewalks were soaking wet. Yet there had been no rain. Lawns were not similarly wet. Evidently the sidewalks went into the night relatively cold; during the night, a warm, moisture laden air mass moved in. The water on the sidewalks was condensate, not rain. Today it’s cooler; at 5:30 A.M. the temperature was a bit over 60º F. The highlight of the dog walk this morning: I saw a fly. Flies are not a typical element in our January fauna! I can’t match Jay’s precocious daffodils, but Galanthus elwesii opened its first flowers yesterday as did wintersweet, Chimonanthus praecox. Two other sometimes early bloomers, Eranthis hyemalis and Helleborus niger rarely respond to these mild spells at the beginning of winter, and they have not this year. The Italian arums are wonderful now. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From ggroiti@mail.agro.uba.ar Wed Jan 9 18:08:19 2008 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.1.20080109210048.01c93eb8@mail.agro.uba.ar> From: German Roitman Subject: Wiki Additions: Hippeastrum euryphylla Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 21:08:19 -0300 Hello all: As promised here are the pictures and information of Hippeastrum euryphylla, i have checked the description and it seems different from the other species of the group. As many species in this family it has a very restricted distribution. Hope you like it. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Hippeastrum Best wishes Germán From adam14113@ameritech.net Wed Jan 9 20:47:54 2008 Message-Id: <002201c8532a$a791ef30$5ad8fea9@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 60, Issue 7 ---Xerophyllkum tenax Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 19:46:43 -0600 Can anybody confirm that this plant needs a basaltic soil, sharp drainage, and maybe even a slop?. Will it grow on non-basaltic soils other than serpentine? Adam in Glenview. Z 5a From meg570@comcast.net Thu Jan 10 01:03:01 2008 Message-Id: From: Mary Gerritsen Subject: Wiki Xerophyllum Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 22:02:50 -0800 I have posted some of Ron Parsons' photos of Xerophyllum asphodeloides and Xerophyllum tenax on the pbs wiki. They can be found here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Xerophyllum Mary Gerritsen From marie-paule.opdenakker@pandora.be Thu Jan 10 12:12:14 2008 Message-Id: <000001c853ab$f0c05a30$d2410e90$@opdenakker@pandora.be> From: "Marie-Paule" Subject: Xerophyllum tenax Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:12:12 +0100 Hello, Thank You very much for the information, so if I do get the Xerophyllum tenax again then I put them in a soil with rocks-bark and perlite, and in a container, because in Belgium we have more often then we wish a wet summer. Regards, Marie-Paule Belgium From ken@wildlanders.com Thu Jan 10 15:01:29 2008 Message-Id: <4786798E.9010809@wildlanders.com> From: Ken Subject: Xerophyllum tenax - native stand at 2500 feet elevation Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:01:18 -0800 >This plant grows at lower elevations where snow is rare as well. I have a stand here at 2,500 feet on the east slope of the Cascades along the I-90 corridor an hour from Seattle. It is the lowest stand I have found and from which I collect seed. The only other stands I know of are about 3200 feet near Snoqualmie Pass. The lower stand blooms pretty much every year but does not always produce good seed. The last few years have seen poor seed set. It is curious to find these plants some distance from the Cascade crest in the drier forests (east slope) and in dry open flats amoung pine and fir forest where the weather is much like Denver, Colorado rather than Seattle. I believe there is even some lodgepole pine in those adjacent forests which one would not typically associate with beargrass. It does grow primarily at high elevation, slopes and poor soils, but you find these 'outliars' that tend to be befuddling. Ken Boettger Ellensburg, WA Alpine WildSeed Zone: 1-2 USDA zones warmer than it was 15 years ago and as confirmed by NOAA data at our airport (20 degree warmer winters and 20 degree warmer summers than we traditionally had from the early 1900s through the 1980s). If we go 2 more zones in the next 15 years, we're toast! I do not think people understand how serious this is. From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Jan 10 18:13:13 2008 Message-Id: <8B87B955-8E19-4526-BFCD-602DFC546D3E@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Zetterlund - Feb/March in British Columbia Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:12:53 -0800 Henrik Zetterlund will speak on Corydalis Tuesday February 26 in Victoria, B.C., Canada. Visitors are welcome. http://www.virags.ca/ He will give two lectures "Iran, Searching for Dionysia, New Bulbs and the Meaning of Life" and "Eastern Turkey, New and Familiar Bulbous Plants" in Vancouver, B.C. at the Western Winter Study Weekend, February 29 to March 2. He will also teach a workshop on bulbs. http://www.agc-bc.ca/wwsw/index.asp Diane Whitehead From totototo@telus.net Thu Jan 10 19:03:17 2008 Message-Id: <20080111000315.AE9TRM94PJ@priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Xerophyllum tenax Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:04:17 -0800 Years ago, I saw Xerophyllum tenax growing very close to sea level on US 101 on the north side of the Olympic Peninsula. This surprised me as the plant reputedly grows only at fairly high altitude. If anyone is burning with desire to know the exact location, I'll see if I can find my note of the exact location. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From telosrarebulbs@suddenlink.net Fri Jan 11 12:32:20 2008 Message-Id: <002001c85476$c4d18a40$e31d6f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Telos Rare Bulbs" Subject: Photos Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:24:05 -0800 Dear Uli: I am in the middle of producing a DVD on South American bulbs. This grew out of a talk I gave on the same subject in San Francisco recently, when many people asked if the talk would be videotaped (it wasn't). The talk, of course, covered mostly the species I grow here in my nursery, and I have no experience in the field. I would like to expand the video to include species I don't grow, otherwise the photographs I have are limited to those I have succeeded in growing and flowering. Of course, I can't cover everything in a video that will run about one and a half to two hours, and I am concentrating on the Amaryllidaceae, Bomarea, Tropaeolum and Leucocoryne. The video will be in two parts, the first photographs of various genera, the second on cultivation and propagation. Would you be willing to share photographs you have (and information)? I would give you on-screen credit. I am also offering a modest fee for use of any photographs. The species I would be interested in would be Tropaeolum, Hippeastrum, Phaedranassa, Urceolina and Stenomesson. Best regards, Diana Telos Rare Bulbs From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Fri Jan 11 12:41:20 2008 Message-Id: <000f01c85478$066e9be0$e31d6f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: Photos Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:33:05 -0800 Sorry for the mistake. Diana Telos From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Jan 11 13:49:08 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Photos Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:48:52 -0800 Dear Diana, Don't apologize. I'm sure we're all delighted to know about your project. Diane From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Fri Jan 11 15:17:44 2008 Message-Id: <11732078.3190061200082663095.JavaMail.www@wwinf2204> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Photos Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:17:43 +0100 (CET) I for one can hardly wait! Thanks for letting us know. > Message du 11/01/08 19:49 > De : "Diane Whitehead" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [pbs] Photos > > Dear Diana, > > Don't apologize. I'm sure we're all delighted to know about your > project. > > > Diane > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Jan 11 19:07:44 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080111155133.016fa830@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Tropaeolum notes Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:56:42 -0800 Some time back forum member Bill Dijk wrote an interesting note about the cultivation of small tuberous Tropaeolum species. I saved his contribution and would like to ask him if we can use a version of it in the Rock Garden Quarterly, but unfortunately his address didn't get saved with the text. Would Bill please write to me directly about this? Incidentally, Tropaeolum tricolor in my bulb frame has worked its way out of the covering lights and has extended its stem onto the superstructure of the frame, despite occasional frost and far too much rain. So far the exposed part shows no damage. I wonder if anyone has successfully propagated these plants by cutting the tuber (which looks like a little potato). I've just been growing them from seed, which they set in small quantities. The seeds have elaiosomes (fleshy bits on the tip) that apparently attract ants, because volunteer seedlings appear some distance from the parent plants in the frames. The tubers must have contractile roots when in growth, because they can be found at considerable depth. I like them very much, despite their propensity to try to strangle any other plant within reach. The best defense is to give them a support when planting the dormant tubers and make sure they stay on it. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Fri Jan 11 19:18:45 2008 Message-Id: <69naj8$6b1m14@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out3.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: Tropaeolum notes Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:18:11 +1100 > >Incidentally, Tropaeolum tricolor in my bulb frame has worked its way out >of the covering lights and has extended its stem onto the superstructure of >the frame, despite occasional frost and far too much rain. So far the >exposed part shows no damage. Jane, T. tricolor isn't bothered by -8 or -9'C in the slightest. I grow it outside here, both in 8 inch black plastic pots and in the ground. No problemo at all here at least, but obviously I can't vouch for any colder. At those temps there isn't any damage to either leaves or flowers regardless of the frost or how early the sun gets to it (my pots are in an area where they get the morning sun, so if the temps were bothering it they would get maximum damage. Winter rains don't seem to bother it at all either. Cheers. Paul T. Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Galanthus, Irises, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! From ashley.cooper@networld.co.za Fri Jan 11 20:07:16 2008 Message-Id: <009801c854b7$6cc0eb70$1266cb47@mykecbcb148b69> From: "Myke Ashley-Cooper" Subject: me Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:06:37 -0500 Hi all I have emigrated to Tallahasse in Florida (USA, of course) from the Western Cape of South Africa and now need to know how to garden in a wet summer instead of a wet winter! Yes, we had ½" of rain today! What a pleasure it was to receive some amazing bulbs from Dell through the PBS. Many thanks my friends! Regards Myke PS Please send me emails via m.ashley.cooper@comcast.net telling me what to grow here. From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Sat Jan 12 12:21:37 2008 Message-Id: <000701c8553e$6f0f8300$e31d6f4b@DJ9SK221> From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: Tropaeolum notes Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:13:21 -0800 Hello Jane: I am growing about ten different species of Tropaeolum, and I have often thought I would try dividing the tuber. The tubers don't have a lot of growing points, unlike potatoes, usually having two or three, the smaller tubers only one. The trouble with Tropaeolum tubers is that they seem very prone to rot if damaged at all. I have difficulty storing the tubers for sale without some collapsing overnight into a mushy mess, while others stay firm. I imagine if the tubers were divided they would have to be cured and the cut surface treated with a fungicide, and I hope next season to try this (if I remember!!). I have read somewhere that you can take cuttings from the shoots, but they are so fragile I wonder if this would work. I don't have a mist system at the moment, but when I get one set up I will try. A few years ago I had lots of tree prunings and used my pear tree prunings for support for the growing vines. They looked really lovely and very natural growing up the branches and twigs. I don't have a source for twiggy branches any more, so now I use chicken wire cylinders which work very well but are not as attractive. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane McGary" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 3:56 PM Subject: [pbs] Tropaeolum notes > Some time back forum member Bill Dijk wrote an interesting note about the > cultivation of small tuberous Tropaeolum species. I saved his contribution > and would like to ask him if we can use a version of it in the Rock Garden > Quarterly, but unfortunately his address didn't get saved with the text. > Would Bill please write to me directly about this? > > Incidentally, Tropaeolum tricolor in my bulb frame has worked its way out > of the covering lights and has extended its stem onto the superstructure > of > the frame, despite occasional frost and far too much rain. So far the > exposed part shows no damage. > > I wonder if anyone has successfully propagated these plants by cutting the > tuber (which looks like a little potato). I've just been growing them from > seed, which they set in small quantities. The seeds have elaiosomes > (fleshy > bits on the tip) that apparently attract ants, because volunteer seedlings > appear some distance from the parent plants in the frames. The tubers must > have contractile roots when in growth, because they can be found at > considerable depth. I like them very much, despite their propensity to try > to strangle any other plant within reach. The best defense is to give them > a support when planting the dormant tubers and make sure they stay on it. > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon, USA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jshields104@insightbb.com Sat Jan 12 12:56:58 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080112125450.02829478@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Brian Duncan Daffodils Inquiry Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:56:50 -0500 The SOURCES page got an inquiry about Brian Duncan daffodils. I have not found any address for his daffodils. Is he still in business? Does anyone know if he has a catalog for mail order? Best regards, Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Jan 12 14:15:09 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080112111517.0175f0c0@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Tropaeolum notes Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:19:59 -0800 Paul in Canberra wrote, Tropaeolum tricolor isn't bothered by -8 or -9'C in the slightest. I grow it >outside here, both in 8 inch black plastic pots and in the >ground. No problemo at all here at least, but obviously I can't >vouch for any colder. An interesting thing about this species is its wide distribution in the wild. You can see it right on the coastal strip where there probably is never anything approaching frost, and up into the Andean foothills flowering within the winter snow zone, in really nasty chilly weather. I suspect seeds from the populations in colder areas would produce hardier plants than seeds from the coast. I don't know where the material in general cultivation came from originally, though. Like Diana I prefer twiggy branches to chicken wire supports for the small trops. When we get a severe cold snap and I have to lay microfoam sheets over my bulbs, I carefully lift the trop supports and lay them flat, then reset them when I remove the foam. You can manipulate the threadlike stems quite a bit without harming them. T. brachyceras seems to be the most cold-hardy species I have here. I've recently seen it on Dutch wholesale lists, so perhaps Russell Stafford (Odyssey Bulbs) will be bringing in tubers? Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Sat Jan 12 15:21:45 2008 Message-Id: <29046098.1200169303020.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: Brian Duncan Daffodils Inquiry Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:21:42 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >The SOURCES page got an inquiry about Brian Duncan daffodils. I have not >found any address for his daffodils. Is he still in business? Does anyone >know if he has a catalog for mail order? > Jim: I found this info in an article from The Telegraph newspaper in the UK: "Shortly afterwards, initially with a local partner, Brian acquired Rathowen Daffodils, later re-named Brian Duncan Daffodils and, with the support of his wife, Betty, he ran a small mail-order business, growing daffodils in two rented acres behind their house on the outskirts of Omagh. Retired from business these days, his new daffodils (as many as 17 in 2005) are now introduced to the world by Nial Watson of Ringhaddy Daffodils, Killinchy. Best, Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA From ksa2006@verizon.net Sat Jan 12 15:50:38 2008 Message-Id: <023601c8555c$c5b031f0$511095d0$@net> From: "Kathy Andersen" Subject: Brian Duncan Daffodils Inquiry Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:50:31 -0500 Brian Duncan retired from business several years. Many of his cultivars may be purchased from Nial Watson at: Ringhaddy Daffodils Ringhaddy Road Killinchy, T23 6TU Co. Down Northern Ireland, Tel: 0044 2897 541007 Fax: 0044 2897 542276 e-mail: ringdaff@nireland.com I can strongly recommend Ringhaddy as an excellent source of top quality bulbs. Send for $3 for a catalog redeemable against order. Kathy Andersen ksa2006@verizon.net Phoenixville, Pennsylvania -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of J.E. Shields Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 12:57 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Brian Duncan Daffodils Inquiry The SOURCES page got an inquiry about Brian Duncan daffodils. I have not found any address for his daffodils. Is he still in business? Does anyone know if he has a catalog for mail order? Best regards, Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From totototo@telus.net Sat Jan 12 15:55:07 2008 Message-Id: <20080112205505.1097KMRL5W@priv-edtnaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Tropaeolum notes Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:55:53 -0800 On 11 Jan 08, at 15:56, Jane McGary wrote: > I wonder if anyone has successfully propagated these plants by cutting > the tuber (which looks like a little potato). Many, many years ago at a one of the study weekends, Paul Christian held forth on the propagation of bulbs. (Memory says it was a Hardy Plant Study Weekend at Edmonds, Washington sometime in the mid or late 1980s, but don't quote me.) One of the most interesting sub-topics was vegetative propagation of cyclamen; perhaps the same method would work for tuberous tropaeolums. The technique called for cutting out the growing point from the cyclamen tuber (something like removing an eye from a potato you are going to eat for dinner), washing the wound with alcohol to remove the slime exuded by the tuber, packing the wound with sulfur, and replanting the tuber. He added that the growing point itself could be de-slimed with alcohol and sulfur and itself replanted, though there was no guarantee it would survive. After removal of the growing point, dormant buds on the surface of the tuber would then sprout, allowing the tuber to then be divided once these were well established. I do not know what success rate, if any, was claimed for this technique, but one can only suppose that it was good enough to warrant risking the loss of an uncommon form. An analogous propagation trick for crocus forms that do not multiply vegetatively was to pluck the growing point out of a corm when it had started to elongate. As with the cyclamen trick, this caused dormant buds on the surface of the corm to grow, each one forming a new corm in due course. As for sulfur, I remember Paul Christian's comment that it was a very good fungicide and stayed where you put it. To this day I dust cut surfaces with it when dividing certain plants, e.g. Eranthis tubers. I don't recall what time of year was recommended for these treatments but suppose for crocuses it would have been in late summer when they begin to stir back into life after summer dormancy. Diane Whitehead was very likely at the same presentation and may be able to comment. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From studio.pozzitaubert@tiscali.it Sat Jan 12 16:24:23 2008 Message-Id: <320BF147-F4DF-453D-89BE-46DA0B6318DE@tiscali.it> From: studio pozzi taubert Subject: Tropaeolum notes..... and tubers cutting Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 22:24:20 +0100 Jane McGary wrote: > I wonder if anyone has successfully propagated these plants by cutting the tuber (which looks like a little potato). Rodger Whitlock wrote: ........... (something like removing an eye from a potato you are going to eat for dinner), washing the wound with alcohol to remove the slime exuded by the tuber, packing the wound with sulfur, and replanting the tuber. I may confirm it works well with many species of Arisaema tubers. Cutting a tuber in many parts ( remember to sterilize the knife before each cutting ), leaving at least two buds (eyes) on each portion, saving the centre with another bud attached. I never washed with alcohol but always covered the wounds with sulphure powder and stored the cuttings for some days in dry conditions to let them dry well on wounded surfaces. Then I planted the cuttings and got a growing rate about 80% with Candidissimum ( and other species of section franchetiana ), lower rates (about 50%) with Nepenthoides. I was pushed to try by a friend who propagates them by cuttings in U.K. and forced to do so when I found some tubers with small wounds or rotting points when lifted from ground, it usually happened in Autumn this the reason why I didn't immediately replant the cuttings. By the way Zantedeschia tubers don't need cutting with a blade but it is enough to brake by hands the tubers ( coloured and hybrids ) or rizhomes ( aethiopica ) and let them dry in cold dry place with rich flow and change of air to avoid mushes. This works better here in late February 15 days before replanting in full ground. Giorgio Northern Italy, zone 7/7,5 ( going to zone 8 ) From perdy@mts.net Sat Jan 12 16:42:54 2008 Message-Id: <3B6A161FA9074D0A8F822250F23A0BE2@DAndersonPC> From: "D Anderson" Subject: Tropaeolum notes Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:42:56 -0600 I started Tropaeolum pentaphylum last in February. Here is what it looked like in end of September. I did cut it back later and it's already growing alot of new shoots. It didn't bloom last year, so I'm hoping it does this year. http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2660186870057289329EKXyOM Thanks for all the information that everyone does provide here on the group. :) Donna in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane McGary" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Tropaeolum notes > Paul in Canberra wrote, > Tropaeolum tricolor isn't bothered by -8 or -9'C in the slightest. I grow > it >>outside here, both in 8 inch black plastic pots and in the >>ground. No problemo at all here at least, but obviously I can't >>vouch for any colder. > > An interesting thing about this species is its wide distribution in the > wild. You can see it right on the coastal strip where there probably is > never anything approaching frost, and up into the Andean foothills > flowering within the winter snow zone, in really nasty chilly weather. I > suspect seeds from the populations in colder areas would produce hardier > plants than seeds from the coast. I don't know where the material in > general cultivation came from originally, though. > > Like Diana I prefer twiggy branches to chicken wire supports for the small > trops. When we get a severe cold snap and I have to lay microfoam sheets > over my bulbs, I carefully lift the trop supports and lay them flat, then > reset them when I remove the foam. You can manipulate the threadlike stems > quite a bit without harming them. T. brachyceras seems to be the most > cold-hardy species I have here. I've recently seen it on Dutch wholesale > lists, so perhaps Russell Stafford (Odyssey Bulbs) will be bringing in > tubers? > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon, USA > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From msittner@mcn.org Sat Jan 12 17:47:21 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080112144652.03630db0@mail.mcn.org> From: "Dennis O'Meara" (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Xerophyllum tenax (bear grass) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:47:00 -0800 Hi, I live on the south sound prairie, southwest of Olympia, WA. We are near the Mima Mounds Natural area. In fact there are numerous mounds on our 5 acre property and in the neighborhood. I have collected bear grass seed from the 51 acre reserve parcel in our neighborhood, and I hope to get some plants started to plant on our property. I don't know if this is the same sub alpine variety, but it is a variety that grows at close to sea level on the western Washington prairie. I have found that we have plant and birds species that I have only seen here in our sub climate. We tend to be a bit colder in the winter and hotter & drier in summer than areas closer to Puget Sound. -- From 320083817243-0001@t-online.de Sat Jan 12 20:41:36 2008 Message-Id: <1JDrqs-1X2JzF0@fwd31.aul.t-online.de> From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban) Subject: Propagation of Tropaeolum Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 02:41:30 +0100 Dear All, Dividing Tropaeolum tubers? I would never dare to do so. What I did in the past is cuttings. The difficult bit with cuttings is that Tropaeolum shoots have two stages of growth, the first stage is the growth stage where they only produce leaves and shoots and the second stage is the flowering stage where they produce buds and flowers. I read in an article, I think it was the British Alpine Garden Society, that only cuttings of the growth-stage-shoots will root. I tried and it worked. The sheer thin-ness of the shoots did not prove a problem, but of course they should have some leaves. Both tip cuttings and internodal cuttings worket but not 100%. The remaining shoot will branch and grow on after removal of its tip but I agree it feels a little heartbreaking to cut off a lot of shoot of perhaps a single plant. I also rescued bits of shoots this way that "survived" slug damage to the main shoot. A cool to cold but frost free greenhouse is the place to root them, I put the pot into a plastic bag until new growth appears. A big problem with Tropaeolums is that the tubers do not shoot some years, sometimes not even several years in one go. Especially the small tubers formed by cuttings or seedlings may die in this process, larger tubers can last for years firm and healthy. I could not find out why this happens but found it happens less if the dormant tuber is slightly watered during dormancy. The worst species to do that with me is T. brachyceras. What is the experience and opinion of other growers? Bye for today. Uli From lwallpe@cinci.rr.com Sun Jan 13 00:11:30 2008 Message-Id: <003d01c855a3$09ebaed0$2902a8c0@lindas> From: "Linda Wallpe" Subject: Brian Duncan Daffodils Inquiry Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 00:13:30 -0500 Jim - Brian is still hybridizing but his daffodils are being sold by: Ringhaddy Daffodils Nial & Hilary Watson, Proprietors 60 Ringhaddy Road - Killinchy County Down BT23 6TU Northern Ireland Telephone: 028.9754.1007 Fax No. 028.9754.2276 e-mail: ringdaff@nireland.com The Watson are a very nice young couple and have been producing a very nice catalogue for about 5 years now. Hope this answers your questions. Linda Wallpe Cincinnati, Ohio 6a ------------------------------------ From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: [pbs] Brian Duncan Daffodils Inquiry The SOURCES page got an inquiry about Brian Duncan daffodils. I have not found any address for his daffodils. Is he still in business? Does anyone know if he has a catalog for mail order? From jshields@indy.net Sun Jan 13 07:49:46 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080113074427.00b08f90@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Brian Duncan Daffodils Inquiry Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 07:49:42 -0500 Thanks to Mark, Kathy, and Linda for giving me the story on Brian Duncan and his daffodils. I've updated the SOURCES web page ( http://www.shieldsgardens.com/GLOVBulbs/SOURCES.html#duncan ) accordingly. Best wishes, Jim Shields At 12:13 AM 1/13/2008 -0500, you wrote: >Jim - >Brian is still hybridizing but his daffodils are being sold by: > >Ringhaddy Daffodils >Nial & Hilary Watson, Proprietors >60 Ringhaddy Road - Killinchy >County Down BT23 6TU >Northern Ireland >Telephone: 028.9754.1007 >Fax No. 028.9754.2276 >e-mail: ringdaff@nireland.com > >The Watson are a very nice young couple and have been producing a very nice >catalogue for about 5 years now. > >Hope this answers your questions. > >Linda Wallpe >Cincinnati, Ohio 6a > >------------------------------------ >From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: [pbs] >Brian Duncan Daffodils Inquiry > >The SOURCES page got an inquiry about Brian Duncan daffodils. I have not >found any address for his daffodils. Is he still in business? Does anyone >know if he has a catalog for mail order? ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From contact@bulbargence.com Sun Jan 13 14:41:10 2008 Message-Id: From: "contact" Subject: Propagation of Tropaeolum Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:41:03 +0100 Dear All, For the three species grow (T. tricolor, pentyaphylum , brachyceras) I haze no need for tubercuttngs. Reproduction by seeds succedes excedingly well. Last Septmber sowing is now 10cm high, but 2006 sowng is now 150cm (60") high and will surely flower next month. Their vigor surprised me so, that I have to increase the wire netting to the height og 300cm (10ft) as it is for the adult tubers. T tricolor will soon become available in large quantities and I will sjurely put them out next season in the garden without any protection. An italian customer specialising in growing climbing plants for the wholesale market, intends to put up a line of Tropeolum tricolor which will find their way into the garden centers in Europe. Greetings from the Soth of France Lauw de Jager www.bulbargence.com From contact@bulbargence.com Sun Jan 13 16:06:46 2008 Message-Id: From: "contact" Subject: Apios americana Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:06:41 +0100 Dear All, A client who bought recently Apios americana from me, told me that these tubers were eaten by the indians and the first american settlers. It contains 3x as much protein as potatoes. There is little information available on this plant.(there is nothing in the wiki!) English common names are said to be: groundnut - wild bean - potatobean - groundbean. Does any one know that this speciesis still used as a vegetable Kind greetings Lauw de Jager www.bulbargence.com From JFlintoff@aol.com Sun Jan 13 17:52:10 2008 Message-Id: <8CA244E0CB38D65-804-1408@WEBMAIL-DC11.sysops.aol.com> From: jflintoff@aol.com Subject: Propagating Tropaeolum species Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 17:52:03 -0500 ?? I've divided tubers of Tropaeolum polyphyllum and T. speciosum and have had them successfully?grow.? Sometimes old tubers will just fall apart when dug up. ? Jerry John Flintoff Vashon Island,Washington,USA Zone 8 ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com From meg570@comcast.net Sun Jan 13 20:37:14 2008 Message-Id: From: Mary Gerritsen Subject: Ron Parsons speaking at the California Horticultural Society Meeting Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 17:37:00 -0800 Ron Parsons will be speaking at the California Horticultural Society meeting on February 17, 2008. The meeting is at the Hall of Flowers, Golden Gate Park, San Francisco, CA. The subject of Ron's talk is "Wildflowers and Plants of Central Mexico" and it will include photographs of the various Mexican Calochortus species, as welll as various other bulbs, wildflowers, cacti and other interesting plants. Some of Ron's photos are featured on his website: http:// www.flowershots.net/INDEX.html On the third Monday of every month (except December) at 7:15 p.m., members meet in the County Fair Building at The San Francisco Botanical Garden at Strybing Arboretum for exciting monthly slide/ lecture programs by expert guest speakers, followed by the Plant Forum, a presentation of plants brought in by members for discussion. A drawing of some of the best and newest plants donated by sponsoring nurseries rounds out the evening. Gardeners, professional nurserymen, amateurs and academics all meet to share plant information and experiences. In the past 66 years, over 6,000 different species of plants have been shown and discussed. You can meet the speakers for a walk through Strybing Arboretum and Botanical Gardens at 4:00 in front of the Strybing bookstore. If you're not a member, there is a Guest Fee of $5. Ron and his co-author, Mary Gerritsen, will both be there to sign copies of their new book "Calochortus, Mariposa Lilies and Their Relatives". From paige@hillkeep.ca Sun Jan 13 21:26:58 2008 Message-Id: <011001c85654$e87d0c50$64b41f45@m6u3j5> From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: Fw: Ron Parsons speaking at the California Horticultural SocietyMeeting Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:26:43 -0800 I heard Ron Parsons speak last spring. His photographs combine taxonomy with portraiture and his presentation combines intelligence, enthusiasm and charm. If you can attend this talk, you won't be sorry. Full disclosure: my review of his and Mary Gerritsen's Timber Press book, Calochortus, will be published in the bulletin of the Alpine Garden Club of BC, host of this year's western study weekend of the North American Rock Garden Society. But I requested the review copy. It was not sent to me in hopes of a puff. Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Gerritsen" To: Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 5:37 PM Subject: [pbs] Ron Parsons speaking at the California Horticultural SocietyMeeting > Ron Parsons will be speaking at the California Horticultural Society > meeting on February 17, 2008. The meeting is at the Hall of Flowers, > Golden Gate Park, San Francisco, CA. The subject of Ron's talk is > "Wildflowers and Plants of Central Mexico" and it will include > photographs of the various Mexican Calochortus species, as welll as > various other bulbs, wildflowers, cacti and other interesting plants. > Some of Ron's photos are featured on his website: http:// > www.flowershots.net/INDEX.html > > On the third Monday of every month (except December) at 7:15 p.m., > members meet in the County Fair Building at The San Francisco > Botanical Garden at Strybing Arboretum for exciting monthly slide/ > lecture programs by expert guest speakers, followed by the Plant > Forum, a presentation of plants brought in by members for discussion. > A drawing of some of the best and newest plants donated by sponsoring > nurseries rounds out the evening. Gardeners, professional nurserymen, > amateurs and academics all meet to share plant information and > experiences. In the past 66 years, over 6,000 different species of > plants have been shown and discussed. > > You can meet the speakers for a walk through Strybing Arboretum and > Botanical Gardens at 4:00 in front of the Strybing bookstore. If > you're not a member, there is a Guest Fee of $5. > > Ron and his co-author, Mary Gerritsen, will both be there to sign > copies of their new book "Calochortus, Mariposa Lilies and Their > Relatives". > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From arnold@nj.rr.com Sun Jan 13 22:55:55 2008 Message-Id: <478ADD61.6050401@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Apios americana Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:56:17 -0500 Lauw: Have a look. Arnold http://www.bio.umass.edu/biology/conn.river/groundnt.html From msittner@mcn.org Sun Jan 13 23:50:36 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080113204633.03817028@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Propagation of Tropaeolum Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:50:12 -0800 Hi, I have the same problem as Uli. Mine often don't come up. Sometimes when I've looked later they are gone but other times the tubers look just fine. If they don't come up, do you still keep watering them every now and then. The worst one for me too is T. brachyceras. T. tricolor is the easiest one from me. I grow it outside, usually in a pot submerged in the ground. Last year I just left it there all summer and it came back just fine and seems to tolerate our very wet winters. Still, I think when they first shoot out they are all very fragile. Mary Sue From totototo@telus.net Sun Jan 13 23:51:07 2008 Message-Id: <20080114045103.9C24GTSP1V@priv-edtnaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Propagating Tropaeolum species Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:51:42 -0800 On 13 Jan 08, at 17:52, jflintoff@aol.com wrote: > ?? I've divided tubers of Tropaeolum polyphyllum and T. speciosum and > have had them successfully?grow.? Sometimes old tubers will just fall > apart when dug up. A number of the smaller tuberous Tropaeolum species have single tubers, unlike Tt. polyphyllum & speciosum. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From contact@bulbargence.com Mon Jan 14 02:05:54 2008 Message-Id: From: "contact" Subject: Fwd: re Apios americana Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:05:49 +0100 -----Original Message----- From: "contact" To: fagus@mars.superlink.net RETURNED Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:57:07 +0100 Subject: re Apios americana Arnold, Thanks just the information I am looking for Greetings Lauw From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Mon Jan 14 16:55:03 2008 Message-Id: <478BDA29.50809@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Chilean bulb genera Famatina and Solaria Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:54:49 -0800 I recently saw a webpage that had photos of the following two bulb species from Chile: Famatina maulensis Solaria brevicoalita The Famatina looked like Phycella or maybe Rhodophiala to me. I didn't recognize the Solaria species. Are these new genera, or synonyms for other genera? (This website had many other Chilean plant species in its database with many photos. It had Phycella and Rhodophiala species as well.) They also had a Leucocoryne alliacea that I hadn't seen before. The open flower looked like a Leucocoryne, but the flower head appearance was quite different from other Leuc.'s I've seen. Does anyone know about these? --Lee Poulsen Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10 From garrideb@well.com Mon Jan 14 17:42:12 2008 Message-Id: <478BE536.7070807@well.com> From: "James R. Fisher" Subject: Chilean bulb genera Famatina and Solaria Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:41:58 -0500 Lee Poulsen wrote: > I recently saw a webpage > > that had photos of the following two bulb species from Chile: > Famatina maulensis > Solaria brevicoalita > > The Famatina looked like Phycella or maybe Rhodophiala to me. I didn't > recognize the Solaria species. Are these new genera, or synonyms for > other genera? (This website had many other Chilean plant species in its > database with many photos. It had Phycella and Rhodophiala species as well.) Did you notice that the authority for both the Famatina and Solaria is the famous/notorious Ravenna ? -jrf -- Jim Fisher Vienna, Virginia USA 38.9 N 77.2 W USDA Zone 7 Max. 100 F [38 C], Min. 10 F [-12 C] From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Jan 14 18:36:17 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080114153916.01701208@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Chilean bulb genera Famatina and Solaria Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:41:21 -0800 Famatina was separated by the "famous/notorious" Ravenna from Rhodophiala, but its four species are discussed under the name Famatina in the AGS Encyclopaedia of Alpines, presumably by John Watson, who wrote most of the Andean plant entries in that reference book. I don't know what that "Solaria" may be, but Tanya Harvey recently sent me a photo of the same plant shown on the Florachilena website, which she took on a recent visit. Jane McGary From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Mon Jan 14 19:18:50 2008 Message-Id: <26119121.1200356329736.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: Chilean bulb genera Famatina and Solaria Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:18:49 -0500 (GMT-05:00) > >I don't know what that "Solaria" may be, but Tanya Harvey recently sent me >a photo of the same plant shown on the Florachilena website, which she took >on a recent visit. I found a description and key for Solaria at this link, a Google translation from the original Spanish: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.chlorischile.cl/ravsolargill/ravgilliesiaceae.htm&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=4&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DSolaria%2Bravenna%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN So, where can I get some seed? Best, Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USa Zone 7b-8 I think From msittner@mcn.org Mon Jan 14 22:57:47 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080114193622.035f36d0@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Chilean bulb genera Famatina and Solaria Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:57:25 -0800 If you look at the Kew checklist you find that Solaria which is considered to be in the Alliaceae family (Kew uses the APG II -- Angiosperm Phylogeny Group system) was named in 1857 when one species was named. Most of the other species were named or renamed by Ravenna. (One of the renamed ones was a Gethyum and the other called Ancrumia). The Solaria species Lee referenced was named in 2005. On the other hand the checklist is not accepting Famatina which was created by Ravenna in 1972. The Kew accepted names are: Rhodophiala andina and Phycella herbertiana for the various Ravenna named species . The plant Lee referenced is the latter so Lee had sharp eyes to see it looked like a Phycella. There is another species Ravenna named in 2003, Famatina cisandina, that Kew lists as unplaced. That's the first time I've seen that as a category. As someone pointed out to me, Kew checklist is just another resource and not all resources agree, but at least it is a resource that is on the web which I really appreciate. Mary Sue From c-mueller@tamu.edu Tue Jan 15 10:13:37 2008 Message-Id: <478C797D.E5F2.008A.0@ag.tamu.edu> From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: Iris colchesterensis Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:13:08 -0600 Dear All, Hoping an iris grower could help me: I've received some seeds of Iris colchesterensis from Plant World Seeds. Their planting instructions seem rather general: "Sow at anytime and cover thinly with compost or grit in gentle heat or a warm bright sot outside. Grow on seedlings in 3 inch pots. Plant out in a well prepared bed." Does this species require a chilling period and extra moisture? I seem to recall that it is very dependent on moist conditions, much like Louisiana iris. Please give your advice - Cynthia W. Mueller, College Station TX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From msittner@mcn.org Tue Jan 15 10:20:04 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080114210149.03155780@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions--Hippeastrum, Macropidia, Anigozanthos Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 07:19:00 -0800 Hi, Germán Roitman has added some more Argentinean species to the Hippeastrum wiki page, H. angustifolium, H. aglaiae, and H. iguazuanum and one from Brazil, Hippeastrum santacatarina : http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Hippeastrum A number of years ago Lee Poulsen created some wiki pages for the two genera commonly known as Kangaroo Paws, plants from Western Australia that grow from rhizomes and have wonderfully strange often hairy flowers. I've added some pictures we took on our trip to Australia. I have some more I'll be adding soon. Macropidia fulginosa is the black Kangaroo Paw, the only species in that genus. We saw it at King's Park and Botanical Garden, Perth. The native spring wildflower display in this park was absolutely amazing. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Macropidia In King's Park we also saw Anigozanthos manglesii which is the floral emblem of Western Australia. It is not very disease resistant and apparently short lived in cultivation so I wonder if they are adding new ones all the time. The other pictures are habitat pictures of Anigozanthos flavidus and Anigozanthos humilis. I'll let you know when I get around to adding some of the other pictures of plants we saw in the wild and in gardens. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Anigozanthos Mary Sue From rpries@sbcglobal.net Tue Jan 15 11:07:27 2008 Message-Id: <724659.16773.qm@web81907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Robt R Pries Subject: Iris colchesterensis Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 08:07:26 -0800 (PST) Usually plants in this group of Iris require a month of moist chilling to stratfy them for germination. --- Cynthia Mueller wrote: > > Dear All, > > Hoping an iris grower could help me: I've received > some seeds of Iris colchesterensis from Plant World > Seeds. Their planting instructions seem rather > general: > > "Sow at anytime and cover thinly with compost or > grit in gentle heat or a warm bright sot outside. > Grow on seedlings in 3 inch pots. Plant out in a > well prepared bed." > > Does this species require a chilling period and > extra moisture? I seem to recall that it is very > dependent on moist conditions, much like Louisiana > iris. Please give your advice - > Cynthia W. Mueller, College Station TX > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue Jan 15 14:14:02 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Iris colchesterensis Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 12:29:37 -0600 >Dear All, > >Hoping an iris grower could help me: I've received some seeds of >Iris colchesterensis from Plant World Seeds. Their planting >instructions seem rather general: Dear Cynthia and all. There is no species with this name, but the variety I. laevigata 'Colchesterensis' is well known and grown. This is one of the most aquatic of all irises. It should be hardy to Zone 4 at least, but not sure how it will do in a milder climate of Texas. I'd soak the seed for a few days until all have sunk, Change water daily. Plant in good garden soil, kept moist and place outdoors in a cool spot. As the seeds germinate continue to keep evenly moist. I. laevigata does best submerged in water from just over the 'ankles' to 'knee deep'. It's a beauty, too. best Jim W. > >"Sow at anytime and cover thinly with compost or grit in gentle heat >or a warm bright sot outside. Grow on seedlings in 3 inch pots. >Plant out in a well prepared bed." > >Does this species require a chilling period and extra moisture? I >seem to recall that it is very dependent on moist conditions, much >like Louisiana iris. Please give your advice - >Cynthia W. Mueller, College Station TX > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From c-mueller@tamu.edu Tue Jan 15 17:21:50 2008 Message-Id: <478CDDDE.E5F2.008A.0@ag.tamu.edu> From: "Cynthia Mueller" Subject: Iris colchesterensis Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:21:22 -0600 Thank you - I did not even know it was laevigata. Now to see how much heat it can stand....Cynthia Mueller >>> James Waddick 1/15/2008 12:29 PM >>> >Dear All, > >Hoping an iris grower could help me: I've received some seeds of >Iris colchesterensis from Plant World Seeds. Their planting >instructions seem rather general: Dear Cynthia and all. There is no species with this name, but the variety I. laevigata 'Colchesterensis' is well known and grown. This is one of the most aquatic of all irises. It should be hardy to Zone 4 at least, but not sure how it will do in a milder climate of Texas. I'd soak the seed for a few days until all have sunk, Change water daily. Plant in good garden soil, kept moist and place outdoors in a cool spot. As the seeds germinate continue to keep evenly moist. I. laevigata does best submerged in water from just over the 'ankles' to 'knee deep'. It's a beauty, too.bestJim W. > >"Sow at anytime and cover thinly with compost or grit in gentle heat >or a warm bright sot outside. Grow on seedlings in 3 inch pots. >Plant out in a well prepared bed." > >Does this species require a chilling period and extra moisture? I >seem to recall that it is very dependent on moist conditions, much >like Louisiana iris. Please give your advice - >Cynthia W. Mueller, College Station TX > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed Jan 16 09:42:45 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Oncocyclus Iris Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:19:13 -0600 Dear Friends, Yesterday I received a surprise in the mail, the Spring 2007 Bulletin of the British Iris Society, Species Group. Admittedly a bit 'late', it is worth the wait. Their new Editor has compiled a series of new and historic articles on Oncocyclus Irises. These are desert and near desert species from the middle east that are nearly bulbous in habit and extremely beautiful in bloom. This bulletin covers almost 90 pages plus 30 color plates. I haven't had time to sit down and read it, but it sure scans great. This is a notoriously tricky group from the taxonomic, systematic and horticultural points of view, but it looks like a wide range of authors have contributed including Brian Mathew, Georgi Rodionenko, Michael Hoog, Kenneth Bastow and more. There's no indication if extra copies are available, but the Editor's email is loe@loebooks.co.uk. If you are a fan of these plants, you might ask. It looks like a winner. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From platystele@yahoo.com Wed Jan 16 10:21:40 2008 Message-Id: <952454.95731.qm@web52412.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Jon Subject: Apios americana Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:21:35 -0800 (PST) Euell Gibbon's book, Stalking the Wild Asparagus also has information about consumption of the plant. He was less than impressed with the taste. Jon T. Lindstrom Fayetteville, Arkansas, U.S.A. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From msittner@mcn.org Thu Jan 17 23:23:59 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080117192455.03039e18@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Australian orchid corrections Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:16:26 -0800 Dear All, Hi, I asked Malcolm Thomas who is very knowledgeable about Australian orchids and who was once a member of our list to review the names and pictures of some orchids I've been adding to the wiki that we saw in Australia to make sure that I had correctly identified them. The first ones I did were fine, but not the more recent additions. Even though I have a field guide written by David and Barbara Jones in 2000 (A Field Guide to the Native Orchids of Southern Australia), it appears that Mr. Jones along with a colleague, Mark A. Clements have suggested multiple name changes for many of the orchid genera since then. They propose splitting some of the genera into many new groups. In a very short period of time they have gone from name to name to name. Not everyone agrees about these changes although some of the Australian botanists in some states are adopting them. The final outcome is uncertain. In addition a couple of my identifications were wrong. Fortunately, Mr. Clements and Mr. Jones have put a name index online: http://www.anbg.gov.au/cpbr/cd-keys/orchidkey/html/AustralianOrchidNameIndex.pdf This document is 275 pages long which illustrates both how many orchids there are in Australia and also how many different names these orchids have been known under. Malcolm commented to me that he hoped his email would help, but it might cause more headaches than happiness. I debated what to do about changes Kew and others are not accepting, but which are based on sound study by Australian orchid experts and have been adopted by others. Although I know we aren't entirely consistent about how we have done this on the wiki, for now I am listing them both places with synonyms and an explanation. Perhaps in a few years if these changes are more widely accepted the wiki can be changed. In each instance there was only one species per new genus page so it didn't take up too much space to have them in two places. So for those of you who might be interested the large Bird orchid I saw should have been identified as Chiloglottis valida and is now known as Simpliglottis valida. Chiloglottis is being reserved for fall blooming species and two new genera were created for the spring and summer blooming species. The Greenhood orchids that I identified created a much bigger headache. Pterostylis under the new system has been divided into Pterostylis, Bunochilus, Crangonorchis, Diplodium, Eremorchis, Hymenochilus, Linguella, Oligochaetochilus, Petrorchis, Pharochilum, Plumatichilos, Ranorchis, Speculantha, Stamnorchis, Taurantha, Urochilus. I added pictures of four species to the wiki and each one is considered to be in a different genus. If you are interested you can look at the original page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Pterostylis One of the ones I added had the species name changed from my field guide and another one Malcolm corrected as he believed it was a different species of bearded Greenhood, now considered to be Plumatichilos tasmanicum I've not started yet on the Caladenia pictures, but I've been warned that genus has multiple changes. Besides the original Caladenia and Cyanicula (blue) which was separated out earlier we now have these additional genera as synonyms not listed in my 2000 field guide: Arachnorchis D.L.Jones & M.A.Clem. Caladeniastrum (Szlach.) Szlach. Calonema (Lindl.) D.L.Jones & M.A.Clem. Calonema (Lindl.) Szlach. Calonemorchis Szlach. Drakonorchis (Hopper & A.P.Br.) D.L.Jones & M.A.Clem. Ericksonella Hopper & A.P.Br. Glycorchis D.L.Jones & M.A.Clem. Jonesiopsis Szlach. Jonesyella Szlach. Petalochilus R.S.Rogers Pheladenia D.L.Jones & M.A.Clem. Phlebochilus (Benth.) Szlach. Stegostyla D.L.Jones & M.A.Clem. Now if I had Jim McKenney's or Jane McGary's excellent knowledge of languages perhaps what they have chosen to call them would help me sort them out. Arachnorchis is easy, these are what they commonly called spider orchids. And Drakonorchis includes the ones called Dragon orchids. Mary Sue From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Jan 17 23:45:01 2008 Message-Id: <2480F998-DBA0-41FB-BA20-C2B69047F3BE@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Australian orchid corrections Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:44:43 -0800 I see some botanist named Jones has managed to get his name attached to TWO new genera. I bit piggy, I think. Diane From msittner@mcn.org Fri Jan 18 00:43:14 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080117211038.034931d8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Australian orchid corrections Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:42:51 -0800 Yes Diane, but Jones isn't listed as the one naming those genera starting with Jones. Szlachetko is a Finnish botanist and it seems that in spite of naming two genera starting with Jones that he and Jones are not in agreement about all the orchid changes. Also you will be interested to know that there is this one: Davejonesia named by M.A. Clem for some species once considered Dendrobium I don't see any named starting with Clem however. David Jones gave the key note speech at a several day Symposium on Australian plants I attended many years ago at the Arboretum at the University of California at Santa Cruz. They have an amazing selection of Australian plants growing at the Arboretum and the Symposium was wonderful. At this late date I can't remember what I learned but it obviously made a big impression on me as I have a number of Australian plants in my garden as a result. Jones gave talks on Australian rain forests, cycads and a third on Australian orchids. He and Rodger Elliot have been writing the Encyclopedia of Australian Plants suitable for cultivation. They started in 1980 and the last volume I've seen was Volume 8 through So. Can you imagine all the corrections in names they will need to make when they have finished the alphabet? They will probably need two volumes just for the changes. Here's what I found about David Jones: "David Jones is renowned in Australia and overseas for his botanical and horticultural work on Australian plants. His studies of the specialist fields of ferns, orchids, palms and cycads have vastly improved our understanding of these unique plant groups. He has published many scientific papers on this group of plants. David has travelled extensively throughout Australia in his search for knowledge and he continues to photograph many rare and unusual species from remote areas. He is presently a research scientist at the Centre for Plant Biodiversity Research at CSIRO. " Mary Sue From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Sat Jan 19 15:23:48 2008 Message-Id: <47925C50.2060306@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Calochortus book is a good read! Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:23:44 -0800 I bought "Calochortus" by Gerritsen and Parsons. It is packed with botanical and historical information about Calochortus, and has wonderful detailed pictures of them. I checked the details of some of those I do know, and they seem right on target. The authors have done a wonderful job! Do read it if you love Calochortus or all of the Liliaceae. Marguerite English: Gardening with Penstemons, Salvias, Xeric plants, Dianthus, Narcissus, Roses, and Irises at 3500 feet in zone 7B, mountains of Southern California. I collect and grow tender plants and bulbs, especially Epiphyllum, Babiana, Lachenalia, Morea and Zephyranthes in a closed patio room. From jshaw@opuntiads.com Sat Jan 19 17:03:31 2008 Message-Id: From: "Joe" Subject: Babiana triple whammy Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:03:25 -0600 Dear Pacific Bulb Society, I enjoy it when bulbs and geophytes are described in magazine or newspaper articles. Natural History magazine (Feb. 2008, p. 64) contains a story by Bruce Anderson and Cemeron Ewart-Smith on the relationship between the" rat-tail" of Babiana ringens and pollinating birds. B. ringens is unusual because the inflorescence is low to the ground but typically has an extra vertical "stem " that rises above the flowers. The vertical structure called the rat-tail stalk. The PBS Wiki displays this beautifully: LINK: B. ringens rat-tail rising from bloom cluster http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Babiana/Babiana_ringens_perch.jpg. The rat-tail has long been observed to provide a perch for certain birds; they hold on with their feet and can lean down and withdraw nectar from multiple flowers. Interestingly, the rat-tail is part of a flower too (guessing an elongated pedicel); it holds a single bud high, but the high flying bud seldom opens and seems to be an evolutionary relic. Dr. Anderson wanted to know if the rat-tail was important for plant reproduction; after all, it is part of the flowering structure. A few years ago Dr. Anderson conducted experiments wherein he removed the rat-tail and then measured reproductive success in the various plants. "Perchless plants" (those without the rat-tail) produce far fewer seeds than do typical plants. Dr. Anderson thinks that without the perch birds must feed from the ground (the flowers are low) and that such feeding does not facilitate pollen transfer from plant to plant. Additionally, Dr. Anderson points out that plants with perches have many more bird visitors than plants without perches; hence, pollination is facilitated because more birds visit more flowers. Moreover, by providing a mechanism to facilitate outcrossing (movement of pollen from plant to plant), the rat-tail provides a clever mechanism to prevent inbreeding. Thus, lack of the rat-tail causes a triple whammy! Babiana is a clever plant indeed. LINK: More photos of B. ringens (rat-tails showing) http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/potd/2005/04/babiana_ringens.php LINK: Original article from Nature http://arachnid.botany.utoronto.ca/newbotany/4admin/admin/publications/Pubfiles/Nature-2005.pdf Cordially, Joe Conroe TX From honeybunny442@yahoo.com Mon Jan 21 09:27:04 2008 Message-Id: <52412.16458.qm@web56101.mail.re3.yahoo.com> From: Susan B Subject: Wiki Additions--Hippeastrum, Macropidia, Anigozanthos Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 06:27:03 -0800 (PST) Thanks Mary Sue, (a bit belated). One of my favorites, I wish they were easier to grow! the Kangaroo Paw varieties, I mean. Susan --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. From honeybunny442@yahoo.com Mon Jan 21 09:27:35 2008 Message-Id: <316156.62463.qm@web56111.mail.re3.yahoo.com> From: Susan B Subject: Wiki Additions--Hippeastrum, Macropidia, Anigozanthos Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 06:27:35 -0800 (PST) geeps, forgot to say the photos were pretty good, I thought! --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. From msittner@mcn.org Mon Jan 21 11:42:28 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080121081947.03580d40@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions-Babiana, Hesperantha, Ixia Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 08:38:51 -0800 Hi, When Joe wrote about Babiana ringens and I looked at Sheila Burrow's pictures on the wiki I realized I had never added the habitat pictures we had taken when we were in South Africa in 2006. We saw at least four Babiana species in the Western Cape on a trip to Darling and it looks like I didn't add any of them. I added two of them over the weekend, B. ringens and Babiana rubrocyanea. I've tried to grow Babiana ringens more than once without luck. We were thrilled to see it, but alas without any birds on the perch. As you can see from the pictures it is growing in sand. B. rubrocyanea I've had more success growing. The flowers of the latter are so similar to some of the Geissorhiza species that grow in the same area that you know they must share the same pollinators. You can access the new pictures from the link below. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Babiana#ringens Hesperantha humilis has been blooming lately. It blooms for me in January with the flowers opening on the days that the temperatures are warm enough. I'm very fond of it, especially since it is one of the early bloomers. I added some more pictures of it to the wiki, including one taken of the back, a picture of the corms, and a habitat picture from Cameron McMaster taken in one of the colder areas of winter rainfall parts of South Africa, Sutherland. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Hesperantha I also added some of Cameron McMaster's habitat pictures of Ixia trifolia growing in the Komsberg. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Ixia Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From brent.hine@ubc.ca Mon Jan 21 13:38:44 2008 Message-Id: <4794E779.80806@ubc.ca> From: brent hine Subject: Wiki Additions-Babiana, Hesperantha, Ixia Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:42:01 -0800 I wanted to share with everyone a once-cherished Babiana ringens that grew wonderfully well for me in the alpine garden where I work. You can see images of the plant here: http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/potd/2005/04/babiana_ringens.php It was introduced to our cultivation in 1979, and for its last 10 years or so was outside, unprotected, where it withstood -12C/10F on at least a couple of winters. Then, in 2004, I moved it to our bulb frame. It continued on, blooming the following Spring. The next winter, squirrel(s) moved in, and it was no more. At least there's a picture! Brent Hine E.H. Lohbrunner Alpine Garden UBC Botanical Garden Vancouver, Canada Zone 7a, -17C/0F From msittner@mcn.org Tue Jan 22 11:03:59 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080122073543.034b6d08@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Babianas and cold tolerance Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:56:54 -0800 Dear Brent, Joe, and all, Thanks Joe for alerting us to the article in Nature and Brent for sharing the information about your experience with Babiana ringens. If I recall, when Babiana was the topic of the week in April the general consensus was that it was not hardy and attempts to grow it in colder climates had not been successful. Babiana ringens is a coastal species so you would expect that it would be less hardy than some of the species growing at higher elevations that would experience colder temperatures on a regular basis. Your story for me illustrates a couple of points. One is that where you plant is important as is the planting medium. Plants in the ground are much more likely to sustain cold temperatures than those in pots. Babianas tend to relocate deep in the ground where the corms would have some protection from the elements. And because many of the species produce multiple cormlets around the main corm, even if a plant was wiped out because of the cold, some of the cormlets could remain and in later years plants you thought you had lost could reappear. When we had an unusually cold December (I think it was 2000) many of my South African bulbs in a raised bed turned to mush. Some put out new leaves the very same year. Others I thought I had lost returned in subsequent years. The propensity to produce cormlets also protects species from predation. One assumes that the Baboons for which this species is named would miss some of the smaller cormlets. On African Hill at the UC Botanical Garden, Berkeley, California, I understand the gophers in the past redistributed and relocated some of the Babiana cormlets. That and all those new cormlets create quite a display in spring as illustrated by Liz Waterman's photo on the wiki. http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Babiana/Babianas2_UCBot.jpg Mary Sue From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Jan 22 11:20:45 2008 Message-Id: <000701c85d12$f7690ab0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Babianas and cold tolerance Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:22:20 -0500 I've been keeping a keen eye on this Babiana discussion and also taking a renewed interest in the many images on the wiki. Last summer Jane McGary sent me two species of Babiana, B. disticha and B. secunda. They are now in one of the cold frames and so far seem to be taking the winter well. Armed as I am now with a new small seed lots import permit, I'm also going over the Silverhill site very carefully. The small, fragrant Gladiolus in particular seem irresistible. Some of the small south African irids look superficially a lot like Juno irises. If the cold frame project continues to be as successful as it has been so far, some new, broader horizons will be beckoning strongly. And Mary Sue, expect to be hearing from me when I run into trouble - I'll be relying on your "been there, done that" experience. Ten years ago so much readily available information - and readily available plant material - would have been unthinkable for most of us. I sometimes feel I'm living in a golden age of gardening. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where a "winter mix" is forecast by the weather prophets. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue Jan 22 12:21:27 2008 Message-Id: <6A14B7B9-42F3-4D33-8DB8-8F89D917E002@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Babianas and cold tolerance Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:21:07 -0800 Are cormlets less juicy than a mature corm, so less likely to freeze? Diane Whitehead From leo@possi.org Tue Jan 22 16:37:24 2008 Message-Id: <44877.209.180.132.162.1201037842.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: Eremerus discussion last fall Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:37:22 -0700 (MST) Hello All, I missed the Eremerus discussion last fall as I was quite busy. I'm catching up on old messages. I hadn't realized they are fall-winter-spring growers. How tolerant are they of summer heat? I might try some from seed here in Phoenix. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From tony@plantdelights.com Tue Jan 22 18:03:48 2008 Message-Id: <4796765B.8010807@plantdelights.com> From: Tony Avent Subject: Babianas and cold tolerance Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:03:55 -0500 Mary Sue, etal: We've also tried to see how many babianas that we could kill. In spring 2004, we planted the species below. Only B. mucronata and B. vanzylae are still alive, but none have flowered. We've had mild winter since then, only dipping to 12 degrees F, and we offer no winter protection. Other suggestions of species to try are most appreciated. Babiana mucronata No Babiana odorata Yes Babiana patersoniae No Babiana ringens No Babiana sambucina No Babiana stricta var. regia No Babiana vanzylae Yes Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Dear Brent, Joe, and all, > > Thanks Joe for alerting us to the article in Nature and Brent for sharing > the information about your experience with Babiana ringens. If I recall, > when Babiana was the topic of the week in April the general consensus was > that it was not hardy and attempts to grow it in colder climates had not > been successful. Babiana ringens is a coastal species so you would expect > that it would be less hardy than some of the species growing at higher > elevations that would experience colder temperatures on a regular basis. > Your story for me illustrates a couple of points. One is that where you > plant is important as is the planting medium. Plants in the ground are much > more likely to sustain cold temperatures than those in pots. Babianas tend > to relocate deep in the ground where the corms would have some protection > from the elements. And because many of the species produce multiple > cormlets around the main corm, even if a plant was wiped out because of the > cold, some of the cormlets could remain and in later years plants you > thought you had lost could reappear. When we had an unusually cold December > (I think it was 2000) many of my South African bulbs in a raised bed turned > to mush. Some put out new leaves the very same year. Others I thought I had > lost returned in subsequent years. The propensity to produce cormlets also > protects species from predation. One assumes that the Baboons for which > this species is named would miss some of the smaller cormlets. On African > Hill at the UC Botanical Garden, Berkeley, California, I understand the > gophers in the past redistributed and relocated some of the Babiana > cormlets. That and all those new cormlets create quite a display in spring > as illustrated by Liz Waterman's photo on the wiki. > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Babiana/Babianas2_UCBot.jpg > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue Jan 22 18:45:03 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080122154410.016e4d60@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Babianas and cold tolerance Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:45:57 -0800 Some years ago I was given a few different, unidentified Babianas. The one that seems most cold-tolerant I have tentatively identified as B. disticha. The beautiful B. rubrocyanea has proven difficult even in the bulb frame and is now in my frost-free room. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA, 19 degrees F last night, coldest of the year so far but above what I would consider a typical low From totototo@telus.net Tue Jan 22 19:49:14 2008 Message-Id: <20080123004912.4BFCHKLRFM@priv-edtnaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Babianas and cold tolerance Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:48:44 -0800 On 22 Jan 08, at 11:22, Jim McKenney wrote: > I sometimes feel I'm living in a golden age of gardening. Just hold still for a few moments and I'll take care of that feeling. [Experienced readers all know to go "uh-oh, rant ahead."] Perhaps we are in a golden age of gardening, perhaps we're not. True, the range of plant material is wider than ever, but there's a great deal more to a garden than the plants in it. No, I'm not referring to concrete work, statues, and fountains. What I mean is that the plants *alone* do not make the garden. Jim McK. and I might fortuitously grow exactly the same assemblage of plants (Veriolitsis glomulama, anyone?), but our gardens will be different. This would be true even if we lived next door to each other. It's fun to attempt growing "difficult" plants, but sometimes I think we plant nuts, of whatever stripe, get so caught up in the plants that we forget to look at the garden. Myself, I've been downsizing my coldframe operation for a couple of years. I got tired of dozens, if not hundreds, of dinky little pots holding seeds & seedlings, and have been trying my best to get things out into the open garden. Some are successes, some are failures, but with every pot planted out, there's one less pot to disfigure the garden scene. After all, didn't the ancient Persians, who invented ornamental gardens, call them "paradises"? Seems to me that a big issue (for some of us) is: how can obscure and/or difficult plants add to the garden picture???? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From jshields104@insightbb.com Tue Jan 22 21:49:34 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080122214641.027ee9f0@mail.insightbb.com> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Speciation Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:49:39 -0500 I'm going to post this to several lists. I apologize for the duplication to those who, like me, belong to more than one of them. In the early 1980s, I read a fascinating little book by Vern Grant, called "Plant Speciation." It laid out, in what I thought was a fairly straight forward way, where new plant species might come from. Among the cases in point were the rain lilies. Grant used them as examples of new species arising from polyploidy and from parthenogenic mechanisms. Now there is another book on speciation, which I just received my copy of: "Speciation" by Coyne & Orr, published in 2004, so really quite current. You can find it in Bookfinder, Barnes & Noble on-line, and probably other places. The cost seems to be about $60 (US), new or used, for the soft cover edition. It's called a textbook, but there are no "exercises" at the ends of the chapters. As I work my way through it, I'm going to bounce my impressions of the material off my fellow list members. Maybe that way I'll absorb more of it. More importantly, I'll be very interested in the comments of others who have an interest in speciation. The conclusions seem to be, at first glance, that Ernst Mayr's definition of the "Biological Species Concept" is holding up well, with some emendations as we learn more detail about the subject. The Biological Species Concept was that a species is a population or populations of interbreeding individuals. It is also concluded that recent evidence points to natural and sexual selection being the dominant forces in speciation, and that genetic drift plays only a minor role. The authors conclude that allopatry, while important in most cases, is not always necessary for speciation. It is even concluded that "species" is a real entity, as opposed to being just an arbitrary rationalization created solely by the human mind for purposes of organizing information. I've sometimes not been so sure about that myself. I'll be interested to see how the book deals with the dynamic aspects of species and populations. That is the part that fascinates me -- can we ever step twice into the same river of species? If you are interested in the current state of the process of speciation, I think this is going to be the book that you must read. "Speciation" by Jerry A. Coyne and H. Allen Orr, pub. by Sinauer Associates, Sunderland. Mass., 2004. IBSN 0-87893-089-2. Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue Jan 22 21:54:07 2008 Message-Id: <000f01c85d6b$7735d680$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Real gardens; was RE: Babianas and cold tolerance Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:55:50 -0500 Roger Whitlock wrote: "there's a great deal more to a garden than the plants in it... the plants *alone* do not make the garden... It's fun to attempt growing "difficult" plants, but sometimes I think we plant nuts, of whatever stripe, get so caught up in the plants that we forget to look at the garden" Roger, it might come as a surprise to you to discover just how much I agree with what you seem to be saying. If my recent posts to the PBS list seem to go on and on about my protected cold frame and its progressively more obscure contents, that's only because that's where the excitement is for me right now. Ten years ago I never thought I would be growing most of the plants in that cold frame. If nothing else, that cold frame provides me with the opportunity to get those plants out of my system. And if there is anyone reading this who is not tempted by the likes of Tecophilaea, Calochortus, Fritillaria, the south African and other Californian and Chilean floral elements - well, all I can say is "what are you doing here?" You might never guess it from my postings to the PBS list, but growing "rare" or "difficult" plants is only a minor aspect of my gardening activities. But two circumstances give it disproportionate importance: for one, during the winter the outdoor garden provides no other source of flowery interest in our climate. And for another, it's a chance to grow plants which in the recent past I assumed were outside my reach. But here's how to put it into perspective: the lot on which I garden is of approximately a quarter of an acre in area. The protected cold frame I've been describing has an area of exactly two square yards. That two square yards is the hot spot in the garden from October until sometime in late winter or early spring when clement conditions return. The rest of the garden is given over to my other horticultural interests. And since garden design is my paramount interest, my garden is a real garden. You can't imagine how many times I've been taken to see the garden of some "great gardener" and found myself wandering around some backyard plant factory. If they're a dahlia specialist, there are neat rows of dahlias. If they're a (fill in the blank) specialist, there neat rows or paddocks of whatever their specialty is. I've seen whole lots given over to this sort of thing. To my mind, these are not gardens: they are exercises in urban agriculture. And that describes the well organized ones. They seem to be inspired by ever dimmer recollections of farming practice. Has the family really come up in the world because they now plant "gladiolas" instead of cabbages? The disorganized ones are simply an exercise in hoarding. In my view, it isn't the type of plant grown which separates the sheep from the goats. It's how the plants are grown. All those "gardens" managed with an emphasis on productivity and the demands of the show bench - those are not gardens in my book. In our time, the word garden has come to mean anything one wants it to mean. As real gardens have largely disappeared, the word now usually refers to flower beds or borders - in the same way real landscape has come to be supplanted by what is ludicrously called "landscaping". To each his own; I just want to be sure you understand that it's not for me. Anyone who knows the etymology of the word garden will share my sense of perplexity to see the word applied to a bed of annuals (or if you prefer, orchids). Some of us would insist that there must be some sense of enclosure. Some will retort that the enclosure may be metaphorical. I'm not trying to convert anyone else to my point of view; I know I'm in the minority. But as in so many areas of life, just because we use the same words does not mean that we are saying the same thing. To my point of view, most American gardens are turned inside-out. The house becomes the centerpiece in an elaborate and expensive attempt at outdoor decorating, the resident's primary investment surrounded by his cattle or gold jewelry or whatever it is which says status. I know I'm not the only one who has seen an expensive automobile parked on the front lawn - while space on the street goes begging. And I would not be surprised to hear that someone out there is replacing the plant labels (the ones which identify the plant) with large print price tags. Real gardens can be achieved with a minimum of plant material. Plant people are apt to poke fun at those professional landscape architects who design gardens using the same repertoire of ten or twenty plants. But those landscape architects are on to something. An abundance of plant material only makes it that much less likely that a real garden will ever emerge. I'll end on one final thought: Roger, if you could see my garden in full, you would immediately recognize its Persian influence. Now that's what I call a rant! Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where a Hippeastrum in full leaf in my cold frame shows no sign of cold damage. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From aley_wd@mac.com Wed Jan 23 03:45:41 2008 Message-Id: <39411A35-2C6D-41ED-BB95-6CB0034BB0F3@mac.com> From: William Aley Subject: On the golden age of gardening Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 03:45:32 -0500 After visit to Cornwall and seeing both the lost gardens of Heligan and the Eden Project I was convinced that there has been a golden age of Horticulture that started in the 1900s. To realize that a Head Gardener at the Heligan Estate in 1890 would be expected to know what types of manurer, through decomposition would provide sufficient heat to warm the pineapple house to bring African Pineapples to fruit. Too much nitrogen and one would have a fire, not enough and the plants would freeze. There was so much international plant material in transport when compared to what had been available in the mid 1800's. There have been problems from all of the plant material moving about unchecked... I think now with the overwhelming amount of plant material available and electricity and jet transport providing the energy to recreate environments that many of us take this for granted. It is too easy to replace a plant that has died effortlessly. I rather like the idea of Jim's "less in artificial environments" and more of zone tolerant plants in the garden. Don't get me wrong I am a plant geek I just have a hard time with plants not surviving well in the garden. for those that don't know Heligan: http://www.heligan.com/flash_intro.html From contact@bulbargence.com Wed Jan 23 13:35:07 2008 Message-Id: From: "contact" Subject: Eremerus discussion last fall Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:35:01 +0100 Leo, They adore summer heat, on conditions that it is dry. They do so well in sandy soil, becaude they do not tolrate excessive humidity. I think Ermurus himalaicus is best suitedfor warmer climats Greetings Lauw de Jager South of France www.bulbargence.om I hadn't realized they are fall-winter-spring growers. How tolerant are they of summer heat? I might try some from seed here in Phoenix. From talkingpoints@plantsoup.com Wed Jan 23 14:26:34 2008 Message-Id: From: N Sterman Subject: cyclamen in So Cal Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:26:22 -0800 Does anyone have success with species cyclamen in Southern California? Or the florist cyclamen in the ground? Please email me off line Thanks ***************************************** Nan Sterman Plant Soup, Inc. TM TalkingPoints@PlantSoup.Com PO Box 231034 Encinitas, CA 92023 Order your personalized copy of the all new California Gardener's Guide vol II at www.PlantSoup.Com Watch A Growing Passion now on YouTube! Search for all five segments, starting at http://youtube.com/watch? v=4bpTdXY3cG8 From eagle85@flash.net Wed Jan 23 20:54:21 2008 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: cyclamen in So Cal Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:54:21 -0800 N. Sterman, Contact Chas. Hardman. He does not use the computer, but his mailing address is in the PBS directory and he does have a telephone. Doug From tony@plantdelights.com Thu Jan 24 08:32:09 2008 Message-Id: <4798934E.7080700@plantdelights.com> From: Tony Avent Subject: cyclamen in So Cal Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:31:58 -0500 Nan: I'm curious if anyone has tried Cyclamen persicum f. puniceum outdoors? I got my plant from Judith and Dick Tyler, who got it from Tilebarn Nursery in the UK. Judith shared a plant that had been hardy in her unheated greenhouses for several years. I planted it outdoors in early fall, and it has been fine through several nights at 15F with no protection. They have another selection of C. persicum from Israel that they claim is even hardier. I have tried several collections of regular C. persicum before and none showed any winter hardiness. Thoughts? Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent N Sterman wrote: > Does anyone have success with species cyclamen in Southern > California? Or the florist cyclamen in the ground? Please email me > off line > > Thanks > > > ***************************************** > Nan Sterman Plant Soup, Inc. TM > TalkingPoints@PlantSoup.Com > PO Box 231034 > Encinitas, CA 92023 > > Order your personalized copy of the all new California Gardener's > Guide vol II at www.PlantSoup.Com > > Watch A Growing Passion now on YouTube! > Search for all five segments, starting at http://youtube.com/watch? > v=4bpTdXY3cG8 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From rpries@sbcglobal.net Thu Jan 24 11:22:03 2008 Message-Id: <59963.76402.qm@web81909.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Robt R Pries Subject: Real gardens; Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:09:32 -0800 (PST) These posts struck a cord with me. Jim mentioned how gardens today are tied to the house. Some years back i had my garden on display and a friend encouraged a photographer from Better Homes and Gardens to come photograph. My garden was laid out in a series of garden rooms that were laid into the natural landscape so their inspiration was by the contours of the land and a sense of place. The season was spring and my extensive collection of standard dwarf iris, dogwoods, and a plethora of wildflowers were all in bloom. The photographers were delighted. Later I found out that the pictures would never be used because they could not tie the house to the garden. Since I grow lots of Iris I know that most collectors grow these in rows like corn. This is the easieat way to care for a large collection and I have have part of the yard with corn rows. But I have never considered that a garden. I separate these by speaking of my collection and my garden. It is fun having both. I certainly consider the garden to be the higher art form whereas the collection is more of a science. I am anticipating a move this spring to North Carolina where I am building a house on 14 acres. The house will eventually have garden views tied to the house but there with also be garden rooms completely disjunct from the house. Much will remain semi-wild. I say semi because I do not believe there is really wilderness anywhere today since everywhere feels man's touch and therefore everywhere is now a garden of sorts for which man has some responsibility. Bob Pries currently in the cold Ozark Mountains of Missouri or should I say misery. --- Jim McKenney wrote: > Roger Whitlock wrote: "there's a great deal more to > a garden than the plants > in it... the plants *alone* do not make the > garden... It's fun to attempt > growing "difficult" plants, but sometimes I think we > plant nuts, of whatever > stripe, get so caught up in the plants that we > forget to look at the garden" > > Roger, it might come as a surprise to you to > discover just how much I agree > with what you seem to be saying. > > If my recent posts to the PBS list seem to go on and > on about my protected > cold frame and its progressively more obscure > contents, that's only because > that's where the excitement is for me right now. Ten > years ago I never > thought I would be growing most of the plants in > that cold frame. If nothing > else, that cold frame provides me with the > opportunity to get those plants > out of my system. > > And if there is anyone reading this who is not > tempted by the likes of > Tecophilaea, Calochortus, Fritillaria, the south > African and other > Californian and Chilean floral elements - well, all > I can say is "what are > you doing here?" > > You might never guess it from my postings to the PBS > list, but growing > "rare" or "difficult" plants is only a minor aspect > of my gardening > activities. But two circumstances give it > disproportionate importance: for > one, during the winter the outdoor garden provides > no other source of > flowery interest in our climate. And for another, > it's a chance to grow > plants which in the recent past I assumed were > outside my reach. But here's > how to put it into perspective: the lot on which I > garden is of > approximately a quarter of an acre in area. The > protected cold frame I've > been describing has an area of exactly two square > yards. That two square > yards is the hot spot in the garden from October > until sometime in late > winter or early spring when clement conditions > return. > > The rest of the garden is given over to my other > horticultural interests. > And since garden design is my paramount interest, my > garden is a real > garden. You can't imagine how many times I've been > taken to see the garden > of some "great gardener" and found myself wandering > around some backyard > plant factory. If they're a dahlia specialist, there > are neat rows of > dahlias. If they're a (fill in the blank) > specialist, there neat rows or > paddocks of whatever their specialty is. I've seen > whole lots given over to > this sort of thing. To my mind, these are not > gardens: they are exercises in > urban agriculture. And that describes the well > organized ones. They seem to > be inspired by ever dimmer recollections of farming > practice. Has the family > really come up in the world because they now plant > "gladiolas" instead of > cabbages? The disorganized ones are simply an > exercise in hoarding. > In my view, it isn't the type of plant grown which > separates the sheep from > the goats. It's how the plants are grown. All those > "gardens" managed with > an emphasis on productivity and the demands of the > show bench - those are > not gardens in my book. > > In our time, the word garden has come to mean > anything one wants it to mean. > As real gardens have largely disappeared, the word > now usually refers to > flower beds or borders - in the same way real > landscape has come to be > supplanted by what is ludicrously called > "landscaping". To each his own; I > just want to be sure you understand that it's not > for me. > > Anyone who knows the etymology of the word garden > will share my sense of > perplexity to see the word applied to a bed of > annuals (or if you prefer, > orchids). Some of us would insist that there must be > some sense of > enclosure. Some will retort that the enclosure may > be metaphorical. I'm not > trying to convert anyone else to my point of view; I > know I'm in the > minority. But as in so many areas of life, just > because we use the same > words does not mean that we are saying the same > thing. > > To my point of view, most American gardens are > turned inside-out. The house > becomes the centerpiece in an elaborate and > expensive attempt at outdoor > decorating, the resident's primary investment > surrounded by his cattle or > gold jewelry or whatever it is which says status. I > know I'm not the only > one who has seen an expensive automobile parked on > the front lawn - while > space on the street goes begging. And I would not be > surprised to hear that > someone out there is replacing the plant labels (the > ones which identify the > plant) with large print price tags. > > Real gardens can be achieved with a minimum of plant > material. Plant people > are apt to poke fun at those professional landscape > architects who design > gardens using the same repertoire of ten or twenty > plants. But those > landscape architects are on to something. An > abundance of plant material > only makes it that much less likely that a real > garden will ever emerge. > > I'll end on one final thought: Roger, if you could > see my garden in full, > you would immediately recognize its Persian > influence. > > Now that's what I call a rant! > > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where > a Hippeastrum in full > leaf in my cold frame shows no sign of cold damage. > My Virtual Maryland Garden > http://www.jimmckenney.com > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society > http://www.potomaclilysociety.org > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From msittner@mcn.org Thu Jan 24 11:34:32 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080124080955.00b86a30@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions--Arachnorchis Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:22:02 -0800 Hi, I decided to put pictures of the Caladenia orchids from Australia on the genus pages of the new genera proposed by Jones and Clement for this genus with links on the Caladenia page to save having to make a number of Caladenia pages later if I put them both places. So the first additional genus I've made a page for is Arachnorchis (spider orchids). I've added some Western Australia species identified for us at an orchid show in Albany and some species that we saw in Victoria in the wild that Malcolm has confirmed the identification for me. I've got a lot more pictures to add from Western Australia, but there are so many species and my books don't include them all so identification is very challenging so they may all end up sp. when I finally get around to them. It is quite thrilling when you discover these orchids in the wild and we all took multiple pictures whenever that happened. Sometimes we found more than one, but often you would only see one or perhaps a couple of plants and so we were always grateful to the person who discovered one. I think I got a bit carried away with adding SOME of these pictures to the wiki, but they really do look different from different angles and they are quite intricate in design. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Arachnorchis There are a lot more Caladenia pictures coming as I have time. Mary Sue From adam14113@ameritech.net Thu Jan 24 15:03:27 2008 Message-Id: <001201c85ec4$2c66ba70$5ad8fea9@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: Coyne and Orr book on speciation Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:03:21 -0600 Hello all. The book is available at www.abebooks.com for les than $60.00, probably also at www.alibris.com. I use these for out-of-print and hard-to-find stuff From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Thu Jan 24 15:19:27 2008 Message-Id: <4798F2CE.8020101@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Real gardens; Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:19:26 -0800 This is definitely an interesting topic. It fits in well with the PBS original mission of 'using bulbs in the garden.' Sometimes our topics are about collections or their scientific basis, and occasionally about our gardens. I enjoy both kinds of topics. I do agree with Robert that our collections and our gardens are different beasts. I am on a mission this year to get my garden back into shape after several years of neglect. It is a challenging task, but an enjoyable one. I have ordered some old roses (which I mix into my cottage garden area or my shrub border) and many new bulbs. In fall I always add new daffodils to the hillside where I live. On a previous property, I once crawled under the chaparral and planted some near a seasonal spring. That did make sense at the time, as both I and my daughters had a secret sitting place where they could be viewed when in bloom. (I no longer crawl under chaparral, but sometimes miss the days I could!) I've always wondered what future owners thought when they found them. I would like to hear more about which bulbs can be moved outside in my 'colder than normal California' zone. As I repot my rainlilies this year, I am putting a few out into my raised bed, starting with Habranthus. Those that have gone out in previous years have done well and always show surprise blooms when in Aug-Sept. when everything else is becoming dry and sere. Most bulbs (and many other plants) get planted into gopher baskets, as that is a big problem on uncleared land, which surrounds my living area. Other bulbs have been chancy. Lycoris radiata has divided into smaller plants, did not bloom last year or the squirrels ate the blooms before I saw them. They are now in cages to protect from both gophers and squirrels. The need to put wire around plants makes them less attractive, although if I have to put wire above the soil, I use the green coated stuff. That helps, at least from a distance. Ipheon is a lovely little bulb that gets spread around the garden areas. Either I do it when I plant annuals nearby, or the gophers carry them away and spit them out somewhere else. They are a sweet little surprise when they bloom in an unexpected place. Irises are also favorites. I have planted many bearded Irises over the years and love their scent and colors. The squirrels have really abused them the past three seasons, but I see (or rather hear) signs that coyotes are back and doing their job with those nasty garden-eaters! I was really surprised to find one eating an Iris bud after the fire three years ago; there was no food for them in their normal dining areas. They had never messed with the Irises before that. One question I have always had is whether to plant them with the rhizome showing above the soil line or not. I have read both pieces of advice in reputable sources. I have tried both ways and can't really determine a difference. I love the miniature Iris reticulata and all of its cultivars. I see one is available at Brent and Becky's Bulbs called 'Marguerite.' It is definitely on my next order list. And Calochortus is another favorite. I don't try to plant it in the garden much, although I am starting a dry-sandy bed for Penstemons and may get a few in there. C. concolor and C. splendens grow as natives all along my access road. Spring can be lovely here when the wildflowers bloom. We actually have had 7 inches of rain so far this season. After a many-year drought, this may be a sign of a good wildflower year. I am definitely hoping so! Marguerite Marguerite English: Gardening with Penstemons, Salvias, Xeric plants, Dianthus, Narcissus, Roses, and Irises at 3500 feet in zone 7B, mountains of Southern California. I collect and grow tender plants and bulbs, especially Epiphyllum, Babiana, Lachenalia, Morea and Zephyranthes in a covered patio room. From rpries@sbcglobal.net Thu Jan 24 15:28:40 2008 Message-Id: <860645.29747.qm@web81913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Robt R Pries Subject: Real gardens; Planting Iris rhizomes Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:28:38 -0800 (PST) Marguerite; I have heard various arguments for how to plant Iris rhizomes in different climates. I have an almost fool proof answer. Look at the plants you have that have been in place for a year or two. The Iris will push itself deeper or crawl further out of the ground according to its own sense of conditions. Your established plants can tell you exactly where a new plant should go. Most rhizomatous Irises have the top of the rhizome exposed to some degree. I like to consult with my plants before I make decisions. Bob Pries, on a cold ozark High Ridge, just soth of St Louis. --- Marguerite English wrote: > This is definitely an interesting topic. It > fits in well with the > PBS original mission of 'using bulbs in the garden.' > Sometimes our > topics are about collections or their scientific > basis, and occasionally > about our gardens. I enjoy both kinds of topics. > > I do agree with Robert that our collections and > our gardens are > different beasts. I am on a mission this year to > get my garden back > into shape after several years of neglect. It is a > challenging task, > but an enjoyable one. I have ordered some old roses > (which I mix into > my cottage garden area or my shrub border) and many > new bulbs. In fall > I always add new daffodils to the hillside where I > live. On a previous > property, I once crawled under the chaparral and > planted some near a > seasonal spring. That did make sense at the time, > as both I and my > daughters had a secret sitting place where they > could be viewed when in > bloom. (I no longer crawl under chaparral, but > sometimes miss the days > I could!) I've always wondered what future owners > thought when they > found them. > > I would like to hear more about which bulbs can > be moved outside in > my 'colder than normal California' zone. As I repot > my rainlilies this > year, I am putting a few out into my raised bed, > starting with > Habranthus. Those that have gone out in previous > years have done well > and always show surprise blooms when in Aug-Sept. > when everything else > is becoming dry and sere. > Most bulbs (and many other plants) get planted > into gopher baskets, > as that is a big problem on uncleared land, which > surrounds my living > area. Other bulbs have been chancy. Lycoris > radiata has divided into > smaller plants, did not bloom last year or the > squirrels ate the blooms > before I saw them. They are now in cages to protect > from both gophers > and squirrels. The need to put wire around plants > makes them less > attractive, although if I have to put wire above the > soil, I use the > green coated stuff. That helps, at least from a > distance. > Ipheon is a lovely little bulb that gets spread > around the garden > areas. Either I do it when I plant annuals nearby, > or the gophers carry > them away and spit them out somewhere else. They > are a sweet little > surprise when they bloom in an unexpected place. > Irises are also favorites. I have planted many > bearded Irises over > the years and love their scent and colors. The > squirrels have really > abused them the past three seasons, but I see (or > rather hear) signs > that coyotes are back and doing their job with those > nasty > garden-eaters! I was really surprised to find one > eating an Iris bud > after the fire three years ago; there was no food > for them in their > normal dining areas. They had never messed with the > Irises before that. > One question I have always had is whether to plant > them with the > rhizome showing above the soil line or not. I have > read both pieces of > advice in reputable sources. I have tried both > ways and can't really > determine a difference. I love the miniature Iris > reticulata and all > of its cultivars. I see one is available at Brent > and Becky's Bulbs > called 'Marguerite.' It is definitely on my next > order list. > > And Calochortus is another favorite. I don't try to > plant it in the > garden much, although I am starting a dry-sandy bed > for Penstemons and > may get a few in there. C. concolor and C. > splendens grow as natives > all along my access road. Spring can be lovely here > when the > wildflowers bloom. We actually have had 7 inches > of rain so far this > season. After a many-year drought, this may be a > sign of a good > wildflower year. I am definitely hoping so! > Marguerite > > > Marguerite English: Gardening with Penstemons, > Salvias, Xeric plants, > Dianthus, Narcissus, Roses, and Irises at 3500 feet > in zone 7B, > mountains of Southern California. I collect and > grow tender plants and > bulbs, especially Epiphyllum, Babiana, Lachenalia, > Morea and > Zephyranthes in a covered patio room. > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Thu Jan 24 16:03:15 2008 Message-Id: <4798FC7B.4020601@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Real gardens; Planting Iris rhizomes Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 13:00:43 -0800 Thanks, Bob. That is a good way to tell. Most of mine have crawled just under the soil surface, maybe leaving just the very top of the rhizome exposed. The majority of the rhizome substance digs itself in well. I suspect that is because my late-summer to fall season is quite hot and sunshine is strong. I am in a strong wind season right now; and the soil in raised beds is always at risk of blowing. When I add mulch to the roses in spring, I'll probably also give a bit to the irises that have had their soil blown away. Robt R Pries wrote: > ... Look at the plants you have > that have been in place for a year or two. The Iris > will push itself deeper or crawl further out of the > ground according to its own sense of conditions. Your > established plants can tell you exactly where a new > plant should go. Most rhizomatous Irises have the top > of the rhizome exposed to some degree. I like to > consult with my plants before I make decisions. > Bob Pries, on a cold ozark High Ridge, just soth of St > Louis. > > From auchgourishbotgard@falsyde.sol.co.uk Thu Jan 24 17:25:15 2008 Message-Id: <00af01c85ed8$02554a30$0401a8c0@homepc> From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" Subject: Real Gardens Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 22:25:22 -0000 Can I say that Jim McKinney's tour de force was not so much a rant, as he said at the end, but he makes a lot of sense. In order to raise capital for the establishment of Auchgourish Botanic Garden and our nursery here I undertook several large landscape design and some became builds as well. I tried always to point out to clients that "more is less". Such activities are probably what put me in hospital over my back as a consequence. Sixty year olds can't do as thirty year olds do, but we think it though. The most egregious examples one comes across in Scotland are alpine gardens where people fill it with every damned thing they can lay there hands on without allowing for the fact that even alpines can grow and spread, with the result it is just a mishmash of meaningless, and boring, mess with no theme or focus far less any contribution to amenity for others or the gardener, let alone having any conservation worth. We have a saying in Gaelic, it looks a right "bourach" and the word bourach sets well into and is adopted by the Scots language as well increasingly by English speaking folk come to use it when they emigrate to retirement homes here. Intuitively "bourach" sums it up; pronounced as - boo rucch . I hope to hear and see Americans referring to horticultural disasters as 'Bourachs' soon too. Let gardening America become bilingual with Gaelic, heaven knows so many of you are Scots Americans there in the USA anyway and with a name like McKinney we know where you come from Jim! Regards, Iain Iain Brodie of Falsyde with a full on Highland blizzard ragging outside, wind speeds up to 80 mph forecast. Happy days! From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Jan 25 13:22:14 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080124154418.016fc8d8@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Real gardens; Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:00:28 -0800 When I write about or speak on my bulb collection, much of which is housed in cold frames, I always say, "Of course, this is not gardening. It's an adjunct to gardening." By this I mean the caged collection is a place to nurture rare plants in safety until I have enough increase to try in the garden, and also to distribute to other people around the country, most of whom will take a chance and plant these bulbs in the open garden. Unless one's obsession is Dionysia or Porophyllum saxifrages, it's likely that a collection will eventually spill over into the landscape garden. But I do think it's a mistake not to have a systematic way of maintaining possibly difficult plants until that happens, if you have room. I certainly would not put some of my crocus species into the garden where mice, voles, moles, and chipmunks might likely eat them up, however well the plants might grow there until eaten. On the other hand, I recently moved most of my Corydalis species and selections into the garden because the bulb frame, dry in summer, does not suit the woodland types, and as far as I know they have no predators here. Regarding Marguerite's wondering about bulbs she could plant in her upland southern California garden, many of the species she mentions have a growth cycle not suited to her climate (Habranthus, Ipheion). If I lived there I would look more at Mediterranean and Turkish species, and species from western South America rather than Argentina (northern CHile is southern California in a mirror). Gophers are likely to be a problem for her (I've rarely seen them here, and the dogs quickly catch them), but there are a lot of pretty genera that have unpalatable bulbs, such as Narcissus and Scilla. We've just had our winter cold snap, only down to 19 F/minus 6 C here with severe wind, but with the frames shut the wind doesn't get to the plants much, and I've seen crocuses open during the coldest day (when it's very cold here, it's clear). However, the Cyclamen in the garden are looking quite miserable, even those in the lee of shrubs. I think they will recover; definitely the hellebores will, though they're presently flat on the ground. Jane McGary Northwestern oregon, USA From gardenstreet184@yahoo.com Thu Jan 24 21:35:02 2008 Message-Id: <715653.404.qm@web36414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "C.J. Teevan" Subject: Real gardens; Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 18:34:57 -0800 (PST) Would someone kindly define for me: chaparral? Marguerite English wrote: This is definitely an interesting topic. It fits in well with the PBS original mission of 'using bulbs in the garden.' Sometimes our topics are about collections or their scientific basis, and occasionally about our gardens. I enjoy both kinds of topics. I do agree with Robert that our collections and our gardens are different beasts. I am on a mission this year to get my garden back into shape after several years of neglect. It is a challenging task, but an enjoyable one. I have ordered some old roses (which I mix into my cottage garden area or my shrub border) and many new bulbs. In fall I always add new daffodils to the hillside where I live. On a previous property, I once crawled under the chaparral and planted some near a seasonal spring. That did make sense at the time, as both I and my daughters had a secret sitting place where they could be viewed when in bloom. (I no longer crawl under chaparral, but sometimes miss the days I could!) I've always wondered what future owners thought when they found them. I would like to hear more about which bulbs can be moved outside in my 'colder than normal California' zone. As I repot my rainlilies this year, I am putting a few out into my raised bed, starting with Habranthus. Those that have gone out in previous years have done well and always show surprise blooms when in Aug-Sept. when everything else is becoming dry and sere. Most bulbs (and many other plants) get planted into gopher baskets, as that is a big problem on uncleared land, which surrounds my living area. Other bulbs have been chancy. Lycoris radiata has divided into smaller plants, did not bloom last year or the squirrels ate the blooms before I saw them. They are now in cages to protect from both gophers and squirrels. The need to put wire around plants makes them less attractive, although if I have to put wire above the soil, I use the green coated stuff. That helps, at least from a distance. Ipheon is a lovely little bulb that gets spread around the garden areas. Either I do it when I plant annuals nearby, or the gophers carry them away and spit them out somewhere else. They are a sweet little surprise when they bloom in an unexpected place. Irises are also favorites. I have planted many bearded Irises over the years and love their scent and colors. The squirrels have really abused them the past three seasons, but I see (or rather hear) signs that coyotes are back and doing their job with those nasty garden-eaters! I was really surprised to find one eating an Iris bud after the fire three years ago; there was no food for them in their normal dining areas. They had never messed with the Irises before that. One question I have always had is whether to plant them with the rhizome showing above the soil line or not. I have read both pieces of advice in reputable sources. I have tried both ways and can't really determine a difference. I love the miniature Iris reticulata and all of its cultivars. I see one is available at Brent and Becky's Bulbs called 'Marguerite.' It is definitely on my next order list. And Calochortus is another favorite. I don't try to plant it in the garden much, although I am starting a dry-sandy bed for Penstemons and may get a few in there. C. concolor and C. splendens grow as natives all along my access road. Spring can be lovely here when the wildflowers bloom. We actually have had 7 inches of rain so far this season. After a many-year drought, this may be a sign of a good wildflower year. I am definitely hoping so! Marguerite Marguerite English: Gardening with Penstemons, Salvias, Xeric plants, Dianthus, Narcissus, Roses, and Irises at 3500 feet in zone 7B, mountains of Southern California. I collect and grow tender plants and bulbs, especially Epiphyllum, Babiana, Lachenalia, Morea and Zephyranthes in a covered patio room. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. From jlongane@hotmail.com Fri Jan 25 01:10:36 2008 Message-Id: From: John Longanecker Subject: cyclamen in So Cal Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 22:10:23 -0800 My father, a retired nurseryman, had a bed of self- perpetuating common pink ornamental cyclamen growing in full sun on the east side of his house in Pismo Beach, which I realize is a lot cooler than Encinitas, even though coastal. They quickly declined after his death, probably eaten by the hoards of snails and slugs on the coast or other insects such as the equally common earwigs in Pismo Beach. Here in Placerville, I grow the fall blooming species cyclamen which thrives in the summer drought and is not bothered by the occasional winter hard freeze, in spite of being leafed out in its growing phase. John Longanecker Placerville, Ca Zone 7 banana belt; 2240' > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Fri Jan 25 01:16:48 2008 Message-Id: <47997ED3.1020402@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Real gardens; Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 22:16:51 -0800 Chaparral is the native brush which covers much of the undeveloped space in the mountains and coastal areas of California and other western states. Here, it consists of an oak hybrid which forms a shrub (scrub oak), Ceanothus, Manzanitas, Adenostoma and other shrubby growth. The term is also applied to other areas of the world, because my big 'Garden Plants Encyclopedia' uses it to describe the native habitat of many plants. I presume the specific plant mix would vary from place to place. C.J. Teevan wrote: > Would someone kindly define for me: chaparral? > > From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Jan 25 13:54:54 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080125104030.01732cc8@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: cyclamen in So Cal Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:43:59 -0800 If I lived in southern California I would try all kinds of Cyclamen, particularly the noble forms of C. graecum from the Peloponnese with their wonderful variety of leaf forms. Best success is had with fresh seed, which I believe is best obtained by joining the Cyclament Society (I don't belong to it but have some generous friends). As for C. persicum, a volunteer seedling came up in my bulb frame a few years ago and has survived temperatures down to 20F/minus 6 C there, protected from moisture on the leaves during freezes; it flowers well and has produced more volunteer seedlings. Because Cyclamen seed is attractive to ants, the young plants come up all over between the pots and I get them (or most of them) when I lift the pots in midsummer; then I have tubers to try in the garden, where most of them probably just froze to death. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Jan 25 13:53:36 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080125104521.017489e8@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Real gardens; Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:47:07 -0800 To the question from a European member, >Would someone kindly define for me: chaparral? Marguerite described it, but it may be useful to add that "garrigue" is a name for a similar plant community. Jane McGary From jglatt@hughes.net Fri Jan 25 14:25:22 2008 Message-Id: <479A35FC.4000805@hughes.net> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: Chaparral and Its Ilk Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:18:20 -0500 It's /chaparral/ in California, /maquis/ or /macchia/ in Mediterranean Italy where /Pistacis lentiscus/, Chios mastic, and other drought-tolerant shrubs are found and /Narcissus tazetta/ is native. The /fynbos/ of South Africa's Cape region is home to many, many of the bulbs we are so passionate about. Judy in sunny but chilly New Jersey, where snow still lingers in shady places From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Fri Jan 25 15:35:01 2008 Message-Id: <479A47EB.8090206@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Real gardens; Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:34:51 -0800 Jane McGary wrote: > Regarding Marguerite's wondering about bulbs she could plant in her upland > southern California garden, many of the species she mentions have a growth > cycle not suited to her climate (Habranthus, Ipheion). If I lived there I > would look more at Mediterranean and Turkish species, and species from > western South America rather than Argentina (northern CHile is southern > California in a mirror). As it turns out (and I'm very intrigued and wonder what the evolutionary history of some of these Argentine bulbs is), Ipheion actually does very well here in southern California and will even naturalize if you're not careful. It's dormant during the summer and in growth during the winter. I know from Alberto's information that it is hot and rainy during the summer in Argentina/Uruguay when Ipheion is dormant. But I've learned by accident that even if there is little to no water during the summer here, even in pots, Ipheions do quite well and act as if they were mediterranean climate bulbs. The same is true for some of the other eastern South American bulbs such as Nothoscordum (including the almost impossible to eradicate weed N. gracile or inodorum) and Rhodophiala bifida. There are a few winter growing Habranthus that are also dormant during the summer and they also do well here. It seems that if they are dormant during the summer despite not getting any water, they still survive and in some cases thrive regardless. (Hence my wondering about their evolutionary history; I wonder if they derive from summer-dry climates and have evolved to withstand hot wet soils during the summer while dormant.) Of course, this ability allows them to also be grown in locations that receive summertime irrigation here. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri Jan 25 16:49:47 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080125134624.016fcfd8@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Irrigation in cold weather Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:53:27 -0800 I'd like advice on irrigation of winter-growing bulbs during periods of cold weather. Here we've just had five or six days of sub-freezing temperatures. Beginning today, the temperatures are moderating and are expected to be a few degrees above freezing for at least one week. As I recently mentioned, I grow most of my bulbs in unheated frames, where the temperature rises a little during sunny days even when the ambient temperature is sub-freezing. (The frame light structures are vented at the bottom.) Today many of the pots (which are plunged to near the rims in sand) seemed to me to be less moist than they should be at this stage of the plants' growth, although there is a little moisture in the lower part of the soil, where the roots are. Should I water the plants now, even though they may be exposed to sub-freezing air temperatures at night? Or should I wait a few days until it begins to rain again -- meaning that it will not freeze at night, and the plants won't have bright sun on their foliage? Are they safer in circum-freezing temperatures when a little on the dry side, or when fully hydrated? Apologies to those who get this from both PBS and Alpine-L. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Fri Jan 25 17:46:38 2008 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: commercial announcement Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:46:33 -0500 The fall 2008 Odyssey Bulbs catalog is now on line at www.odysseybulbs.com. Russell Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri Jan 25 19:20:19 2008 Message-Id: <7F1659C4-A02F-42BC-8813-647E4FE5EA58@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Irrigation in cold weather Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:20:02 -0800 I've just checked a hoophouse where I have some potted cyclamen and hellebore seedlings. The pots that were moist are now frozen solid and the cyclamen leaves are drooping. The pots with loose, drier compost are ok. I can poke my finger into the compost. I guess if this cold weather continues, I would have to think about watering the almost-dry ones, but they look fine, so I won't. It is great having sunshine and brilliant stars, but I'm hoping the night time temperature gets above freezing soon. That means clouds, of course. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Fri Jan 25 20:16:55 2008 Message-Id: <479A8999.6010006@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Irrigation in cold weather Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:15:05 -0800 Jane McGary wrote: > Should I water the plants now, even though they may be exposed to > sub-freezing air temperatures at night? Or should I wait a few days until > it begins to rain again -- meaning that it will not freeze at night, and > the plants won't have bright sun on their foliage? Are they safer in > circum-freezing temperatures when a little on the dry side, or when fully > hydrated? > > Don't know about bulbs or small plants, but with cold-hardy subtropical fruit trees (citrus, avocado, etc.) and palms grown in the Zone of Denial (USDA Zones 8b/9a), it has been shown during a number of the superfreezes in previous decades, that the trees that survived the best (or just plain survived) had not been watered and were on the dry side just before the freezes hit. What I read about those incidents was the hypothesis that the partially dessicated cells had a higher concentration of salts in the water that remained in them, which has a lower freezing point and thereby kept the cells from being frozen and bursting and killing them. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Fri Jan 25 20:18:45 2008 Message-Id: <17900052.1201310279310.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: Irrigation in cold weather Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:17:59 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >Should I water the plants now, even though they may be exposed to >sub-freezing air temperatures at night? Or should I wait a few days until >it begins to rain again -- meaning that it will not freeze at night, and >the plants won't have bright sun on their foliage? Are they safer in >circum-freezing temperatures when a little on the dry side, or when fully >hydrated? Hi Jane; I would tend towards dryer rather than fully hydrated. Guttation at the leaf tips, depemnding on water quality, often leads to tip burn from excess salt concentration or provides an appropriate environment for bacterial or fungal growth. During colder weather I irrigate early in the AM on sunny days and try to ensure excellent air circulation with supplementary fans. This is from my experiences in a cold greenhouse, both here in North Carolina (zone 7b-8), and also in northwest Connecticut (zone 5a) where temps can approach freezing or less in the cold spots. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina, USA Zone 7b-8, I think Tecophilea, Lachenalia, Babiana, Lapeirousia, Ipheion, Crocus, Oxalis, Narcissus, Androcymbium, and I'm sure others in bloom in the greenhouse. First forsythia blooms in the garden. Randy hawks screeching, cardinals brightening, blue jays on the move. Crocus, muscari, sparaxis, cyclamen germinating. Nine weeks till spring. From dells@voicenet.com Sat Jan 26 11:57:00 2008 Message-Id: <20080126165659.E05504C017@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: BX wish list Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:56:48 -0500 Dear All, I would like to invite and encourage you to share with us your wish list of seeds, bulbs, etc. that you would like to see offered on the BX. This will be a guide to me in securing some of these things to offer, and it will help donors know what they can send. After all, as they say, "One man's junk is another man's treasure." Just because you have excess of a plant that you consider almost a weed, and you throw them into the compost heap, does not mean that someone in our group might not be dying to grow that very same plant. Let us hear from you! Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX From dells@voicenet.com Sat Jan 26 12:11:18 2008 Message-Id: <20080126171114.26E1B4C01E@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: BX seed purchase Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 12:10:47 -0500 Hi Everybody, Awhile back the BOD gave me the go ahead to purchase seeds to be distributed on the BX. I am asking that you once again give me that license. I would like to spend up to $100 on seeds all of which money I hope to recoup from the BX. Thanks, Dell From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Sat Jan 26 12:27:50 2008 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: BX wish list Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:27:18 -0700 Hello, This is an excellent idea Dell. When we moved here almost 3 years ago I gave away all of my spring bulbs, all of my lilies (all hybrids) and a large chunk of my allium bulbs, keeping only my favorites. I was concentrating on moving the perennials only, thinking that it would be easy enough to replace the rest. Well, things did not work out like I had planned! I had been hoping that I could replace some from seed hopefully from the BX, but most of the bulbs I want are very common and I can understand why one would not save the seed, everyone has them after all. I would love to see more seed from muscari, tulipa, scilla and any other of the spring bulbs. Hardy to zone 3 or 4 that is. Due to the move I lost all of my garlic bulbils, what I had once called 'winter garlic'. I've yet to replace it, I can't find anyone else who grows it, but I sure do miss it. Common alliums are very welcome in my garden being deer proof. Would any one else be interested in common allium seed and or bulbils? I won't be replacing the lily's, I would rather try for species lilies only in this garden. I already have lilium pumilum but would like to add some others. There's my wish list, oh yes, I would like a greenhouse too. ;-} Linda in Okotoks, CA Nothing blooming here! From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat Jan 26 12:36:32 2008 Message-Id: <479B6F8B.5060700@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: BX seed purchase Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 12:36:11 -0500 Dell: Did you want that message to go to the BOD only. Arnold From voltaire@islandnet.com Sat Jan 26 12:37:50 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: BX wish list Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 09:37:33 -0800 There's no need to grow common bulbs from seed, Linda. Those of us in Canada can send you bulbs. I will write you privately to say what I can send you. Diane Whitehead Victoria B.C., Canada > From jegrace@rose.net Sat Jan 26 13:10:49 2008 Message-Id: <1201371044_79462@mail.rose.net> From: "jegrace" Subject: BX seed purchase Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 13:10:21 -0500 If the BOD wants general opinions from members, I think it would be a fantastic idea! I have a long way to go before I can give back in the form of seeds/bulbs/corms of the more unusual plants Erin Grace, Thomasville, GA USA From adam14113@ameritech.net Sat Jan 26 13:18:32 2008 Message-Id: <003401c86047$dabc30d0$5ad8fea9@FAMILY> From: "Adam Fikso" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 60, Issue 14 Response to Dell, for other's discards. Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 12:18:29 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 11:37 AM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 60, Issue 14 Hello Dell. Yes, I know that this is the Pacific Bulb Society. But the Pacific Ocean is rarely peaceful, and there are members in non-pacific zones because this outfit is INFORMATIVE, and some of us from the Midwest moved out there to the coast. I did it the other way around... I grew up out there (Berkeley) and would like to grow some childhood remembrances. SO, I'm in the market for stuff that's weedy out there, hard-to-kill, and on the edge of freeze-hardy, because I want to grow them here in Illinois. So far, I've got a couple of "callas" (one from Jim Shields) that wintered over next to the house, a couple of gladioli, and am playing with a few others: Lycoris sanguinea (survived 2 nights of 0° away from the house and bloomed last year. ) My Campsis hybrid "Mme. Galen" is now up to about 20 feet on the old telepone pole and bloomed well last year with about 400 flowers. The humming irds haven 't come yet, but maybe this year. When you folks say "hardy", I have to translate for my zone, and think, "Nah!"--but I'd love to try tougher clones of Rhodophiala bifida, Hymenocallis from Texas, And growing a few from seed from weedy and hard-to-kill types might better the odds and be just the thing for me. I'm sure that there are a few other like-minded of us, here in the Midwest and I'm guessing Jim Shields, and Jim Waddick for openers. From dells@voicenet.com Sat Jan 26 14:32:01 2008 Message-Id: <20080126193009.447874C056@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: BX seed purchase Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 14:29:32 -0500 Yes, but so far the responses are most positive! Included are some offers to send stuff! -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Arnold Trachtenberg Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 12:36 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] BX seed purchase Dell: Did you want that message to go to the BOD only. Arnold _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From dells@voicenet.com Sat Jan 26 14:35:23 2008 Message-Id: <20080126193507.428064C031@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: BX seed purchase Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 14:34:57 -0500 Well, I meant to seek BOD approval to spend some money, but since I sent it to the whole list, the responses have been great and enthusiastic. Keep them coming! Best wishes, Dell -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dell Sherk Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 12:11 PM To: 'Adam Fikso'; 'c'; DavBouch5@aol.com; 'Macfarlane'; 'Mark'; 'Mark Wilcox'; Pat Colville; PBS list; The Masterson Family Subject: [pbs] BX seed purchase Hi Everybody, Awhile back the BOD gave me the go ahead to purchase seeds to be distributed on the BX. I am asking that you once again give me that license. I would like to spend up to $100 on seeds all of which money I hope to recoup from the BX. Thanks, Dell _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From marie-paule.opdenakker@pandora.be Sat Jan 26 14:48:40 2008 Message-Id: <000f01c86054$6bacb860$43062920$@opdenakker@pandora.be> From: "Marie-Paule" Subject: wish list Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 20:48:27 +0100 Hello Mr.Dell, The wish list can that be also rare bulbs or seeds? Because my wish list is seeds or bulbs from hieronymiella's and Hymenocallis (ismene) amancaes, Sorry if this is too much for the wish list. But the idea is GREAT. Regards Marie-Paule From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat Jan 26 15:05:48 2008 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: "Real" ," Gardens'" and the BX Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 14:05:38 -0600 Dear Friends , Recent post have pushed me over the edge to make some comments on the relatedness of these topics. There is a line between a garden, a collection, commerce and agriculture, but all are inter-related. If we can accept that the person who goes to a big "Wal Mart' and buys a potted cyclamen in bloom is at least a nascent gardener, then a "real" gardener can grow a row of a specialty collection and still be a gardener? If that gardener has dozens of rows and sells the production, isn't that agriculture, not horticulture? Is a cold frame or a rock garden alone a 'garden'? And I think it is (or should be) the aim of every 'real' gardener to share and propagate. We all know people who buy lots of plants, but never seem to have any extras to share Shouldn't we all have those plants that seem to HAVE TO be divided every year or two and given away, replanted or composted. I donate to the BX with some regularity and get a few things from the BX, but I'd bet there's as many or more who get lots of things from the BX and never 'produce' extras FOR the BX. Anyone who gardens should GROW things: they get bigger, multiply and produce seed of offsets. We're all farmers. And what is a "real' Garden? Most of all of our environments are drastically unlike nature. Trees have been rampantly cut down and reforested, landscaped reshaped by urban or rural machinery. Unless you live 'way out', every inch of ground has been trod upon, moved and been influenced by changes in the flora. If your back yard is untended and overgrown, isn't it still as 'real' a garden? Weed clogged empty lots, fields of grain and manicured 'gardens' are all shades of the similar manipulation. To be sure we have standards and understanding of what makes a real garden and a real gardener. If you never have extra divisions, seeds, or cuttings are you a 'real' gardener? I am just throwing out these thoughts to encourage donors. I don't mean to guilt anyone into donating to the BX. It is meant to spread extras around without guilt. Any rebuttals? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From marie-paule.opdenakker@pandora.be Sat Jan 26 15:30:29 2008 Message-Id: <000001c8605a$3f862c20$be928460$@opdenakker@pandora.be> From: "Marie-Paule" Subject: "Real" ," Gardens'" and the BX Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:30:10 +0100 Hello, Sorry if it is not possible to send more seeds (I don't have seeds) or bulbs (maybe) a few, to the BX, maybe if I donate some money for the BX once a year? Would that be better? So if people do not send often seeds or bulbs but ask? Don't be afraid to ask from me personal an input. I have no problem with that. Regards, Marie-Paule Belgium Onderwerp: [pbs] "Real" ," Gardens'" and and buys a potted cyclamen in bloom is at least a nascent gardener, then a "real" gardener can grow a row of a specialty collection and still be a gardener? Summer 100F + _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki __________ NOD32 2824 (20080126) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From jshields@indy.net Sat Jan 26 15:36:42 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080126153310.036238c0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: "Real" ," Gardens'" and the BX Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 15:36:45 -0500 Hi all, Marie-Paule is at a real disadvantage in shipping bulbs to the USA. They need a phytosanitary certificate ("phyto") to be sure they will get into this country. Seeds are not so bad if the recipient has the USDA "Small Lots of Seeds" import permit. In this case, no phyto is needed. Dell, you do have the SLS permit, don't you? I have one that has worked fine for me. Best wishes, Jim Shields At 09:30 PM 1/26/2008 +0100, you wrote: >Hello, >Sorry if it is not possible to send more seeds (I don't have seeds) or bulbs >(maybe) a few, to the BX, maybe if I donate some money for the BX once a >year? Would that be better? So if people do not send often seeds or bulbs >but ask? Don't be afraid to ask from me personal an input. I have no problem >with that. >Regards, >Marie-Paule >Belgium ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat Jan 26 16:05:13 2008 Message-Id: <479BA09C.1020704@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: "Real" ," Gardens'" and the BX Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 16:05:32 -0500 Marie-Paule: I think that Dell was asking exactly what kind of seeds/bulbs would excite the membership and if you would be willing to donate funds so he can go out and get them that would be great. Arnold From paige@hillkeep.ca Sat Jan 26 16:31:14 2008 Message-Id: <00f801c86061$f05cffe0$6bb41f45@m6u3j5> From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: "Real" ," Gardens'" and the BX Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 13:25:11 -0800 As long as the pie is in the sky, what about sponsoring seed collection in the wild? Or simply buying shares in collecting expeditions? Just a thought as snow falls thick and fast on my garden. Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca From auchgourishbotgard@falsyde.sol.co.uk Sat Jan 26 16:46:58 2008 Message-Id: <00cc01c86064$f8789fb0$0401a8c0@homepc> From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" Subject: CYCLAMEN Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:46:55 -0000 In response to the post on species cyclamen a point of interest, not one which concerns us here rather the reverse its a source of big unexpected surprises. Once the flowers of all species go over and the seed pod develops, that's the wee round ball on the end of the 'spring' it will mature and eventually split. At this point watch an unfamiliar dispersal strategy take hold because the ants of most species in Old World North Temperate or Boreal forest climate types, probably all climate types, they gather or harvest the seeds but seem either to loose interest or forget where they leave them, I am not sure which, but you will find next and subsequent years new cyclamen plants popping up all over the place sometimes not quite where you would want them too but no harm is done just as Jane has explained. We have managed to keep most species going here despite the cautionary sucking of teeth from the "experts" but one we cannot keep through our winters - very roughly analogous to your USDA Zone 6 I suppose is C persicum, pity! I am not sure if it just down to minimum temperatures per se, it could be their duration and the fact that at 58 degrees north our winters drag on too long for a species native to 35 to 45 degrees North, similar-ish to Portland and Vancouver. The winters there certainly can be cold but do not last for so long and because of the short growing season, relatively, perhaps they are unable to produce enough reserves. It is hard to say what Jane's best course might be on watering but for what little it might be worth the potted plants of all genera's within the monocots, or otherwise, are left 'light' on moisture here at ABG in northern Scotland. During late autumn watering is slowly wound down and by mid November the irrigation lines are bled to ensure the sprinklers or pipes don't 'pop' when frozen, by law all water pipes must be laid 1.2 metres = 4ft mimimum below ground. Young bulbs of lilies, frits and irises are pricked out in the autumn into 9 cms square posts and our losses are negligible, those which don't make it through probably were not going to anyway. It comes back to the sun shining directly on the plant tissue being my experience. If they are dormant they have no need for irrigation anyway, in nature they would not get too much and such as there is would drain off, it is more of a serious problem for the plants to be sitting in puddles, anyway the soil in the posts absorbs moisture from the atmospheric humidity which is invariably sufficient during this period, good luck anyway......... your infants will be there when you need them in the spring! Regards, Iain From jshields@indy.net Sat Jan 26 16:51:29 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080126162718.02812a00@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Wish Lists and the BX Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 16:51:27 -0500 I can play this game too! There is a source for seeds of several Brazilian species of Hippeastrum. I would like to get seeds of the Argentinean and the Bolivian species of Hippeastrum as well -- but not hybrid seeds! Are seeds of Chilean bulbs available anymore? I got some nice Rhodophiala species a few years ago. By the way, those Rhodophiala seeds remain viable at room temperature for years on end! There are other genera beside Rhodophiala in Chile that are also attractive and enticing. I want to see seeds of more uncommon species of Haemanthus and Scadoxus available. For example, HH. tristus, amarylloides, namaquensis, and canaliculatus; SS. pole-evansiae, cinnabarinus, cyrtanthiflorus, and nutans Summer growing Gladiolus species, from the Drakensberg and Eastern Cape Province, for instance. Cyclamen seeds from the species. If I can nurse my C. graecum back to enough health to flower, I can try to donate seeds of C. graecum someday. Hardy species of Fritillaria, seeds of the real species of the names that Chen Yi lists in her bulb sales. And I like Paige's suggestion about seed expeditions. I might be willing to chip in a little bit to support one of those. Thinking of going to China again, Paige? Maybe you ought to. Things that I am not eager to grow from seeds include Galanthus, Crocus, Tulipa, and Narcissus. I'm too old to wait for those kinds of seeds to get around to flowering. However, I'd definitely be interested in BULBS of Galanthus, Crocus, Tulipa, and Narcissus; I'd also like some healthy bulbs of Fritillaria, come to think of it. Dell didn't say our wishes had to be easy to fulfill, did he? Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Sat Jan 26 16:54:28 2008 Message-Id: From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: Cyclamen babies Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 14:54:04 -0700 Hello, How long should cyclamen babies stay in their original pot? Mine are about 1 year old now and about the size of a pea, should they be left to grow larger or separated into their own pots? Does this vary between species as well? For instance is it better to leave a pot of c. africanum in the original pot over say c. repandum? Linda Foulis A chinook has rolled in, plus temperatures and melting snow. From msittner@mcn.org Sat Jan 26 17:50:44 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080126134641.03140d90@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: BX seed purchase Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 14:09:24 -0800 Hi, I think spending Pacific Bulb Society money for member benefits is a very good idea and I'd think that since the BX generates revenue that the amount being requested could be increased considerably if that is what the members wants. I don't think anyone should have to donate any money to this cause, but it's kind of Marie to offer. Since membership in this list and participation in the wiki is free and does not require membership in the Pacific Bulb Society, the major benefit to joining the Pacific Bulb Society is the BX since in the past two years there have been few other benefits for most of the members. If having a little extra money gives Dell more flexibility to improve the BX I can't imagine that Board members (I'm not one of them) could possibly be against this plan. Mary Sue From meg570@comcast.net Sat Jan 26 17:18:29 2008 Message-Id: <0469535A-9F7F-4B80-A690-108DEAE152DC@comcast.net> From: Mary Gerritsen Subject: PBS wiki-updates to Calochorutus Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 14:14:36 -0800 I have added photos of most of the remaining Calochortus species and varieties and subspecies to the PBS wiki. All of the photos were taken in situ, and hopefully will give everyone a view of how these incredible flowers look in the wild. Mary Gerritsen (in rainy San Mateo, California) From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat Jan 26 17:30:47 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080126143321.01702b18@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Cyclamen babies Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 14:35:45 -0800 Linda Asked, How long should cyclamen babies stay in their original pot? It would depend on the size of the original pot, of course, but if the soil is suitable, they can stay in a 4-inch pot for 2 or 3 years, or you can move them whenever they are dormant. Try to be sure to position the little tubers in the same orientation as they grew, since different species put out their roots from different parts of the tuber. The young tubers are not fragile when dormant. In the garden, they can grow on in quite a crowded group but don't begin flowering well until lifted and given more space. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From marie-paule.opdenakker@pandora.be Sat Jan 26 18:04:10 2008 Message-Id: <000801c8606f$bd29aac0$377d0040$@opdenakker@pandora.be> From: "Marie-Paule" Subject: (geen onderwerp) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 00:04:00 +0100 Hello, Sorry if I have misunderstood the e-mail, or step on someone toes, I did mean that, I hope that You find the garden back after the snow is gone? From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat Jan 26 18:36:42 2008 Message-Id: <479BC41E.4090201@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: Cyclamen babies Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:37:02 -0500 Linda: I usually leave them in the pot until they basically bust out of it. Arnold From arnold@nj.rr.com Sat Jan 26 18:40:16 2008 Message-Id: <479BC4F3.8010809@nj.rr.com> From: Arnold Trachtenberg Subject: BX seed purchase Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:40:35 -0500 As a Board member I can wholeheartedly agree with Mary Sue's comments. We should support Dell's acquisition of desirable seed and as Paige suggested look to go a step further. Arnold From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Sat Jan 26 18:58:50 2008 Message-Id: <479BC933.2020207@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Wish Lists and the BX Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 15:58:43 -0800 Mary Sue will probably kill me for this, but I'm going to intersperse my comments among Jim's (and delete the ones I'm not commenting on). J.E. Shields wrote: > There is a source for seeds of several Brazilian species of Hippeastrum. I > would like to get seeds of the Argentinean and the Bolivian species of > Hippeastrum as well -- but not hybrid seeds! > I totally agree. And extend it up from Bolivia into Peru as well. And there are a bunch of other geophytes from that area that I'd love to get my hands on as well. Bolivia & Peru are probably my #1 choice of where I'd like to see a seed expedition go. I'd even shell out a little bit for that one if it happened. > Are seeds of Chilean bulbs available anymore? I got some nice Rhodophiala > species a few years ago. By the way, those Rhodophiala seeds remain viable > at room temperature for years on end! There are other genera beside > Rhodophiala in Chile that are also attractive and enticing. > Sorry Jim, I should have sent you the ones I know that are currently offering Chilean seeds to update your Sources 'page. Osmani is still actively offering a lot of Chilean native geophyte and other seeds. A woman named Ursula is also offering Chilean seeds, some of which complements Osmani's. That website I was commenting on some days ago apparently also offers seeds for a number of the species on their site, although they're a bit pricey. And Flores & Watson are now offering some of their seeds via the Archibalds' list, which makes them quite a bit pricey in dollar terms. (But the Archibalds aren't going to keep up their website so you need to request their paper list. Which BTW they offered 3 species of Hieronymiella that the Watsons collected in N. Argentina.) > I want to see seeds of more uncommon species of Haemanthus and Scadoxus > available. For example, HH. tristus, amarylloides, namaquensis, and > canaliculatus; SS. pole-evansiae, cinnabarinus, cyrtanthiflorus, and nutans > These would be very nice as well. Know anyone going to Uganda anytime soon? I heard rumors that Silverhill Seeds might be able to offer seeds of S. cyrtanthiflorus in a few years. I need to think some more about what is on my wish list. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a From sabepafronta@yahoo.com Sat Jan 26 19:00:46 2008 Message-Id: <910939.19531.qm@web38709.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Jacob Knecht Subject: Wish Lists and the BX Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 16:00:33 -0800 (PST) Greetings friends, This is interesting. I maintain two bulb collections, one in Santa Barabara, CA and the other in Honolulu, Hawai`i where I live. I would be interested in seed of South African and South American Amaryllidaceae, both those from a Western Cape, eastwards and upwards to subtropical and tropical bulb species. As for African genera, I am very keen on Gethyllis, Haemanthus, Brunsvigia etc. I echo Jim's desires for Scadoxus species such as pole-evansiae, cinnabarinus, and cyrtanthiflorus. And as for the American Amaryllidaceae I'm pretty much interested in all of them! With a special wish for Griffinia and Eucharis seed. Finally, I am interested in Calochortus and other Theimidaceae bulbs that occur in Mexico and down through Central America. I am doubtful, however, owing to the rarity of the plants that I've mentioned, would really even be available for purchase to enrich our BX. But I thought I'd just share my input. Aloha, Jacob Knecht --- "J.E. Shields" wrote: > I can play this game too! > > There is a source for seeds of several Brazilian > species of Hippeastrum. I > would like to get seeds of the Argentinean and the > Bolivian species of > Hippeastrum as well -- but not hybrid seeds! > > Are seeds of Chilean bulbs available anymore? I got > some nice Rhodophiala > species a few years ago. By the way, those > Rhodophiala seeds remain viable > at room temperature for years on end! There are > other genera beside > Rhodophiala in Chile that are also attractive and > enticing. > > I want to see seeds of more uncommon species of > Haemanthus and Scadoxus > available. For example, HH. tristus, amarylloides, > namaquensis, and > canaliculatus; SS. pole-evansiae, cinnabarinus, > cyrtanthiflorus, and nutans > > Summer growing Gladiolus species, from the > Drakensberg and Eastern Cape > Province, for instance. > > Cyclamen seeds from the species. If I can nurse my > C. graecum back to > enough health to flower, I can try to donate seeds > of C. graecum someday. > > Hardy species of Fritillaria, seeds of the real > species of the names that > Chen Yi lists in her bulb sales. > > And I like Paige's suggestion about seed > expeditions. I might be willing > to chip in a little bit to support one of those. > Thinking of going to > China again, Paige? Maybe you ought to. > > Things that I am not eager to grow from seeds > include Galanthus, Crocus, > Tulipa, and Narcissus. I'm too old to wait for > those kinds of seeds to get > around to flowering. However, I'd definitely be > interested in BULBS of > Galanthus, Crocus, Tulipa, and Narcissus; I'd also > like some healthy bulbs > of Fritillaria, come to think of it. > > Dell didn't say our wishes had to be easy to > fulfill, did he? > > Jim Shields > in central Indiana (USA) > > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 > Shields Gardens, Ltd. > P.O. Box 92 WWW: > http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free > 1-866-449-3344 in USA > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > see my botanical photography at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/ ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From eagle85@flash.net Sat Jan 26 19:49:50 2008 Message-Id: From: Douglas Westfall Subject: BX Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 16:49:58 -0800 Dell, I am cleaning 60 - 75 + seeds of Scadoxus membranaceus. Do you think there is a "demand" fo that many? I will send instructions for planting and growing them. I also may have some Haemanthus seeds if they did not all get planted. Regards, Doug From msittner@mcn.org Sat Jan 26 20:09:52 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080126153741.034f6040@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Wiki Additions- Calochortus from Mary Gerritsen Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:01:01 -0800 Hi, Mary's additions have made our Calochortus wiki pages outstanding and I want to thank her for all of the time she spent on this project. Some of you who thought you may not be able to grow Calochortus could be amazed at all the different places they grow (climates, habitats, elevations, etc.) In the last couple of days Mary has added pictures of all these new species: ambiguus, bruneaunis, concolor, dunnii, elegans, fimbriatus, flexuosus, gunnisoni, obispoensis, palmeri, panamintensis, striatus And she has added pictures of four subspecies of Calochortus clavatus, of two subspecies of C. weedii and new pictures of C. albus and C. westonii. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Calochortus There are additions on all but two of the eight Calochortus species pages (Calochortus species four -Lu-N and Calochortus species seven -T to U). So there is a lot to look at. As she and Ron continue to search for this genus in the wild, there may be additions in the future. After not getting almost any rain last year, Southern California seems to be getting a lot all at once. I guess it is a little early to know what the result of that will be, but it's got to make for a better flower season there than the last one. Mary Sue From paige@hillkeep.ca Sat Jan 26 21:51:27 2008 Message-Id: <004c01c8608f$80d56e40$72b41f45@m6u3j5> From: "Pacific Rim" Subject: Wiki Additions- Calochortus from Mary Gerritsen Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:51:15 -0800 Mary Gerritsen has made a contribution to our reference library FAR beyond what one might expect as a canny promo for the excellent book on Calochortus that she and Ron Parsons have produced. Based on having met her I attribute this unusual behavior to first, generosity and second, the desire to share that real scientists cannot stifle. Quite a few of us lead double lives in pure bulbophilia and commerce. Mary has transcended this. It's as though I dumped into the public domain both all the photos from my nursery's website -- which is meant for sharing, and clicked into far more often than sales occur, but does have a sales component -- and all the best photos from my private cache. Wow. Mary, I have no idea what you are living on, but I recognize your gesture and hope that it will be repaid. Expect that it will be repaid. How is not yet clear, but I hope that you will keep us informed. Knowledge will call out to knowledge, you may be sure. Paige Paige Woodward paige@hillkeep.ca www.hillkeep.ca From ron_redding@hotmail.com Sat Jan 26 21:58:46 2008 Message-Id: From: Ronald Redding Subject: Wish Lists and the BX Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:58:32 +1000 Hi Jim and Lee I would like to second your wish lists I also can not seem to get and eucrosia in Australia and I would like to add some white worsleya in that batch.Kind Regards and Best WishesRon ReddingHervey BayAustralia _________________________________________________________________ It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT From totototo@telus.net Sat Jan 26 22:07:21 2008 Message-Id: <20080127030716.4C57W8E39E@priv-edmwaa04.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Horrors in the garden, was Re: Real gardens; Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 19:05:34 -0800 On 25 Jan 08, at 12:34, Lee Poulsen wrote: > ...the almost impossible to eradicate weed N. gracile or inodorum... Since I've been fighting this for a very long time now, perhaps a report from the battle front will be of interest. This horror arrived as seed labelled "Leucojum trichophyllum." I know who contributed and won't name any names, but it was someone who you would have expected to know better. I've often wondered how many other gardens were similarly infested. It was pretty clear after a year or two that whatever I had wasn't Leucojum trichophyllum; the leaves were definitely not hairlike. When this monster first flowered I thought, oh, that's not so bad. Little did I know. After flowering, it set copious seed which fell into circumjacent pots in the coldframe. Enlightenment arrived in the form of a diatribe by a local friend who was lamenting that he'd been digging his up and putting it in the compost, not realizing all this did was spread it around. Uh oh. Once I realized what I had, I began to watch for the flowers. They're quite distinctive and, frankly, not *that* attractive. When a bulb flowered, I'd carefully lift it and then pour a kettle of boiling water into the hole in order to cook any stray bulblets. Nothscordum inodorum not only sets copious seed, but also an infinity of bulblets underground (much like a frit rice grains) -- and these bulblets are the size, shape, and color of apple seeds, so they are very difficult to find and remove. I'm not exactly sure when this monster arrived here, but it was around 1990, perhaps a little earlier. At present I believe my garden is free of it, but I continue to keep a close watch both for the flowers and for the rather distinctive keeled leaves. Allium roseum is now the pest du jour. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From totototo@telus.net Sat Jan 26 22:07:21 2008 Message-Id: <20080127030716.1FF4Q6A7ED@priv-edmwaa04.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: cyclamen in So Cal Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 19:05:34 -0800 On 25 Jan 08, at 10:43, Jane McGary wrote: > [Cyclamen from seed:] Best success is had with fresh seed... Don't you believe it. Dry cyclamen seed is just fine. The trick is to give it a good, long soak in water with a drop of dish detergent before sowing. By long I mean at least a week. If the water clouds, rinse the seed and transfer them to fresh water. The seed pots need outdoor conditions so they experience natural annual and diurnal variations in temperature. Most, perhaps all, cyclamen species germinate when mature plants start to leaf out, thus hederifolium in the fall, coum in the winter, repandum in the spring, and so on. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From dells@voicenet.com Sun Jan 27 10:33:03 2008 Message-Id: <20080127153257.477544C017@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: BX Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 10:32:48 -0500 I am sure I can distribute that many. Please do send them. Best, Dell -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Westfall Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:50 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] BX Dell, I am cleaning 60 - 75 + seeds of Scadoxus membranaceus. Do you think there is a "demand" fo that many? I will send instructions for planting and growing them. I also may have some Haemanthus seeds if they did not all get planted. Regards, Doug _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sun Jan 27 11:40:09 2008 Message-Id: <011e01c86103$2937ad50$b85c085a@acer6281efdef1> From: "brown.mark" Subject: Wish Lists and the BX Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:39:17 +0100 Name whatever galanthus you wan't I can send it to you probably but phyto certificates will probably stimmy any effort in spite of them being garden hybrids etc. Kind regards, Mark W. Brown ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.E. Shields" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: [pbs] Wish Lists and the BX >I can play this game too! > > There is a source for seeds of several Brazilian species of Hippeastrum. > I > would like to get seeds of the Argentinean and the Bolivian species of > Hippeastrum as well -- but not hybrid seeds! > > Are seeds of Chilean bulbs available anymore? I got some nice Rhodophiala > species a few years ago. By the way, those Rhodophiala seeds remain > viable > at room temperature for years on end! There are other genera beside > Rhodophiala in Chile that are also attractive and enticing. > > I want to see seeds of more uncommon species of Haemanthus and Scadoxus > available. For example, HH. tristus, amarylloides, namaquensis, and > canaliculatus; SS. pole-evansiae, cinnabarinus, cyrtanthiflorus, and > nutans > > Summer growing Gladiolus species, from the Drakensberg and Eastern Cape > Province, for instance. > > Cyclamen seeds from the species. If I can nurse my C. graecum back to > enough health to flower, I can try to donate seeds of C. graecum someday. > > Hardy species of Fritillaria, seeds of the real species of the names that > Chen Yi lists in her bulb sales. > > And I like Paige's suggestion about seed expeditions. I might be willing > to chip in a little bit to support one of those. Thinking of going to > China again, Paige? Maybe you ought to. > > Things that I am not eager to grow from seeds include Galanthus, Crocus, > Tulipa, and Narcissus. I'm too old to wait for those kinds of seeds to > get > around to flowering. However, I'd definitely be interested in BULBS of > Galanthus, Crocus, Tulipa, and Narcissus; I'd also like some healthy > bulbs > of Fritillaria, come to think of it. > > Dell didn't say our wishes had to be easy to fulfill, did he? > > Jim Shields > in central Indiana (USA) > > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From aley_wd@mac.com Sun Jan 27 12:32:39 2008 Message-Id: From: William Aley Subject: Heads up for US based importers of seed. Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:22:54 -0500 Just a heads us, USDA APHIS implemented a new policy last year that many may find useful. The program is for shipping internationally into the USA small lots of seed. Small lots - less than 50 seed of any labeled species. The permit is good for three years and allows the importer to by pass the phytosanitary certificate requirement. The permit may not be useful to everyone, but if your looking to have someone ship you small packets of seed, usually the cost of a phytosanitary certificate makes that more involved than dropping packets in the post, and if DHS finds propagative plant material without a phytosanitary certificate they destroy and inform the sender after the fact. Not too helpful if you can only get a tiny amount of seed a year. Check it out and see if this program may work for you. When you apply for the permit, the permit writer can usually turn the permit application around between 5 to 10 days depending on the backlog of other permit requests (fist in first out policy). http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/plant_imports/smalllots_seed.shtml also http://theseedsite.co.uk/aphis.html Happy collecting, Bill, Silver Spring, MD From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sun Jan 27 13:06:03 2008 Message-Id: <000601c8610d$902ac3d0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Heads up for US based importers of seed. Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:53:44 -0500 Bill Aley wrote: "Just a heads us, USDA APHIS implemented a new policy last year that many may find useful. The program is for shipping internationally into the USA small lots of seed. Small lots - less than 50 seed of any labeled species." Actually, it's even better than that. The limit is 50 seeds per packet or 10 g. per packet. That way, you don't have to count your poppy seeds or fern spores. Also, there is a limit on the number of packets which can be imported in one shipment: 50. All 50 packets can be the same taxon, but they have to be packeted as either 50 seeds per packet or 10 g. per packet. There are 16 conditions which determine what you can and can not do under this permit, and seed prohibited under other restrictions are also prohibited under this permit. So be sure to read the fine print before you order. Alpine-L has had many postings on this topic, and some of the details of the process are still being worked out. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 where Galanthus elwesii is blooming in the open garden and some tazettas are about to bloom in the cold frame. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From xerics@cox.net Sun Jan 27 13:27:40 2008 Message-Id: <000001c86112$3e78aa20$96f9b546@richard> From: "Richard" Subject: Heads up for US based importers of seed. Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 10:27:16 -0800 Just to give another view on this. In Southern California it doesn't work so well. Anything that goes through the APHIS station at LAX will certainly be held up. They told me that I needed to pay for forwarding to my house. They accept a FED EX account but stamps that I had sent prior to that just disappeared. I don't trust the process anymore since it depends too much on individual discretion. I don't even attempt it anymore. Richard in Vista CA Actually, it's even better than that. The limit is 50 seeds per packet or 10 g. per packet. That way, you don't have to count your poppy seeds or fern spores. Also, there is a limit on the number of packets which can be imported in one shipment: 50. All 50 packets can be the same taxon, but they have to be packeted as either 50 seeds per packet or 10 g. per packet. There are 16 conditions which determine what you can and can not do under this permit, and seed prohibited under other restrictions are also prohibited under this permit. So be sure to read the fine print before you order. Alpine-L has had many postings on this topic, and some of the details of the process are still being worked out. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 where Galanthus elwesii is blooming in the open garden and some tazettas are about to bloom in the cold frame. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Sun Jan 27 13:29:33 2008 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Galanthus phyto requirements Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 13:29:31 -0500 Mark touches on perhaps the main reason Galanthus cultivars are so much scarcer in the U.S than in the U.K. (for example) -- the prohibitive cost of obtaining the necessary CITES certificate. This means that importing them in small numbers makes little economic sense, but it's hard to find a market for larger numbers of them. We are always on the lookout for sources of uncommon Galanthus and other geophytic rarities -- and yes, this is a hint to those of you who have them growing on your premises! Russell Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 From mark@marksgardenplants.com Sun Jan 27 13:42:37 2008 Message-Id: <001301c86114$5edb9c30$4001a8c0@galanthophile> From: "Mark Smyth" Subject: Galanthus phyto requirements Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:42:29 -0000 Have you tried Hitch Lyman? $3 gets his list Hitch Lyman 'The Temple Nursery' PO BOX 591 Trumansburg NY 14886 USA Mark N Ireland -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 11859 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Sun Jan 27 13:48:24 2008 Message-Id: <006f01c86115$298f6510$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Galanthus phyto requirements Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:48:08 -0000 Russell Stafford wrote: >the prohibitive cost of obtaining the necessary CITES certificate. This is really not true. The cost of a CITES Certificate from the UK for exporting a consignement consisting of single genus of CITES-listed plant is £7 (c. $14 USD)(see http://www.ukcites.gov.uk/license/GN11_Fees_CITESapplications%20(Aug%2007).pdf). This is not expensive! That will cover any number of snowdrop bulbs. In addition of course a phytosanitary certificate is required and for this there is an inspection fee of about £40-50, depending on the time taken for inspection. This is not too bad if divided over a consignment of snowdrops priced at £7-25 per bulb and shared between friends. We ship a substantial order each year to a group in Canada by this route each year - as dormant bulbs of course. There are simply insufficient stocks anywhere of most, if any, Galanthus cultivars, to make wholesaling them to suppliers such as Russell viable. The retail market can absorb all we can grow. Our first Snowdrop Open Weekend has just finished, with hundreds of visitors enjoying perfect snowdrops in beautiful sunny weather. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 COLESBOURNE PARK SNOWDROP OPEN DAYS 2008 January 26/27 and every Saturday & Sunday in February Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 6:29 PM Subject: [pbs] Galanthus phyto requirements > much scarcer in the U.S than in the U.K. (for example) -- This > means that importing them in small numbers makes little economic > sense, but it's hard to find a market for larger numbers of them. We > are always on the lookout for sources of uncommon Galanthus and other > geophytic rarities -- and yes, this is a hint to those of you who > have them growing on your premises! > > Russell > > Russell Stafford > Odyssey Bulbs > PO Box 382 > South Lancaster, MA 01561 > 508-335-8106 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.12/1245 - Release Date: > 26/01/2008 15:45 > > From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Sun Jan 27 13:48:40 2008 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Galanthus phyto requirements Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 13:48:38 -0500 Hitch has a wonderful selection of snowdrops -- and well deserves a couple plugs, which he is now getting! Russell At 01:42 PM 1/27/2008, you wrote: >Have you tried Hitch Lyman? $3 gets his list > >Hitch Lyman >'The Temple Nursery' >PO BOX 591 >Trumansburg >NY 14886 >USA Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Sun Jan 27 13:56:59 2008 Message-Id: <007b01c86116$63b46280$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Cyclamen babies Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:56:55 -0000 Linda Foulis wrote: How long should cyclamen babies stay in their original pot? My answer is, in ideal conditions, about 2 weeks, just long enough to expand the first leaf. Then they should be pricked-out into small pots or plugs and again whenever their roots fill each container. That way they will flower within the year. But you do need some warmth and good growing conditions to achieve this, particularly to avoid waterlogging of young seedlings. If you really don't want to transplant young seedlings at least pot the whole lot on each year into a larger container to give them space to develop. I've never understood the point of leaving them in a pot of old compost for years. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 COLESBOURNE PARK SNOWDROP OPEN DAYS 2008 January 26/27 and every Saturday & Sunday in February Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk From kelly@irvincentral.com Sun Jan 27 13:57:36 2008 Message-Id: <479CD406.5090706@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: Galanthus phyto requirements Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:57:10 -0600 Hello, John. Thanks for the information. My experience receiving Galanthus from The Netherlands is different. I get charged about 70 euros (US$100) per species OR variety. I would be interested in your list... Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b mailto:kelly@irvincentral.com http://www.irvincentral.com/ John Grimshaw wrote: > Russell Stafford wrote: > > >> the prohibitive cost of obtaining the necessary CITES certificate. >> > > This is really not true. The cost of a CITES Certificate from the UK for > exporting a consignement consisting of single genus of CITES-listed plant > is £7 (c. $14 USD)(see > http://www.ukcites.gov.uk/license/GN11_Fees_CITESapplications%20(Aug%2007).pdf). > This is not expensive! That will cover any number of snowdrop bulbs. > > In addition of course a phytosanitary certificate is required and for this > there is an inspection fee of about £40-50, depending on the time taken for > inspection. > > This is not too bad if divided over a consignment of snowdrops priced at > £7-25 per bulb and shared between friends. We ship a substantial order each > year to a group in Canada by this route each year - as dormant bulbs of > course. > > There are simply insufficient stocks anywhere of most, if any, Galanthus > cultivars, to make wholesaling them to suppliers such as Russell viable. The > retail market can absorb all we can grow. > > Our first Snowdrop Open Weekend has just finished, with hundreds of visitors > enjoying perfect snowdrops in beautiful sunny weather. > > John Grimshaw > > > Dr John M. Grimshaw > Sycamore Cottage > Colesbourne > Nr Cheltenham > Gloucestershire GL53 9NP > > Tel. 01242 870567 > > COLESBOURNE PARK SNOWDROP OPEN DAYS 2008 > January 26/27 and every Saturday & Sunday in February > Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm > website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 6:29 PM > Subject: [pbs] Galanthus phyto requirements > > > >> much scarcer in the U.S than in the U.K. (for example) -- This >> means that importing them in small numbers makes little economic >> sense, but it's hard to find a market for larger numbers of them. We >> are always on the lookout for sources of uncommon Galanthus and other >> geophytic rarities -- and yes, this is a hint to those of you who >> have them growing on your premises! >> >> Russell >> >> Russell Stafford >> Odyssey Bulbs >> PO Box 382 >> South Lancaster, MA 01561 >> 508-335-8106 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.12/1245 - Release Date: >> 26/01/2008 15:45 >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From auchgourishbotgard@falsyde.sol.co.uk Sun Jan 27 16:10:24 2008 Message-Id: <013501c86129$08576dc0$0401a8c0@homepc> From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" Subject: Species Lilium Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:10:23 -0000 I wonder if through the group I could learn who, if anyone, has or has had and grown the following species of Lilium; Lilium poilanei; Lilium sherriffiae; Lilium pitkinense and L.pitkinense var. or forma fiski should it really exist; Lilium superbum var. mary-henryae; Lilium catesbei; Lilium georgei; Lilium grayi; Lilium iridollae. These are the awkward squad species, i.e. the taxa which have eluded me for the collection here in northern Scotland. I am hoping to learn anything at all about their requirements and people's experiences / difficulties in their cultivation particularly in the absence of mine. In due course, failing adding examples of these species I am also anxious to find sources of pin sharp digital photographs for my book on Lilies and their Allies. There is a good chance I will hopefully be able to make some progress on the Old World species but I can't think of a better place to ask about the New World lilies than from this forum. The whole collection, over time, has been developed preferentially via the seed route accessions with priority from wild origin or known wild origin parents but, just occasionally, it has been necessary to work from bulbs. One other aspect I am trying to secure are photographs of natural habitats for the different lily types, not for everyone that is restricted to photos for each species. I have been offered some incredible material from the central Asian countries, Russian and Chinese, however, much as I would love to visit the USA and Canada, costs aside, within the timescales for the book this can't be an option. Anyone with any suggestions really would be appreciated were they to get in touch and is welcome to email me direct please at auchgourishbotgard@falsyde.sol.co.uk if preferred. Regards, Iain Iain Brodie of Falsyde Auchgourish Botanic Garden & Arboretum Boat of Garten. PH24 3BP. Inverness-shire. Scotland. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Jan 27 16:40:19 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080127132858.016aa0d8@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Horrors in the garden, was Re: Real gardens; Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 13:32:47 -0800 Roger wrote, >This horror (Nothoscordum inodorum) arrived as seed labelled "Leucojum >trichophyllum." I know >who contributed and won't name any names, but it was someone who you >would have expected to know better. I've often wondered how many >other gardens were similarly infested. I ended up with it in exactly the same way, from seed sent to a seed exchange (don't remember which one) as Leucojum. I've managed to quell it in the bulb frames but it got into a border, where all I can do, short of digging up and discarding the soil a foot deep or more, is make sure it doesn't flower. I do have the real L. trichophyllum, by the way, but rarely get enough seed from it to send to an exchange. However, I get plenty of bulb offsets to share. Jane McGary From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun Jan 27 16:40:20 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080127133634.0168de18@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Galanthus phyto requirements Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 13:45:26 -0800 Regarding obtaining Galanthus, the address of Hitch Lyman's Temple Nursery has been provided. He does have a good list, but the prices are very high and he ships plants only "in the green," i.e., in growth, a practice that I believe arose because Galanthus bulbs, when stored dry, often deteriorate. It is, however, quite feasible to ship the bulbs dormant in late summer, as long as you keep them slightly moist (I use very slightly moist vermiculite in plastic bags -- I think plastic didn't exist when the "in the green" rule was made). I think the requirement for a CITES certificate is usually applied by Dutch shippers not to each variety, but to each genus involved in a shipment, so one certificate should cover all Galanthus ordered. At least, that was my experience, and I paid $50 per genus. It might be useful for those interested in Galanthus to collate a list of the species and varieties they're growing in their country, such as the US or Canada, and set up an exchange that didn't involve national borders and CITES. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From j.grimshaw@virgin.net Sun Jan 27 17:33:45 2008 Message-Id: <00ce01c86134$a89d8bb0$0201a8c0@John> From: "John Grimshaw" Subject: Galanthus phyto requirements Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 22:33:35 -0000 Jane McGary wrote > Galanthus bulbs, when stored dry, often deteriorate. > It is, however, quite feasible to ship the bulbs dormant in late summer, > as > long as you keep them slightly moist (I use very slightly moist > vermiculite > in plastic bags -- I think plastic didn't exist when the "in the green" > rule was made). Galanthus bulbs 'deteriorate' only if kept in conditions of high temperatures so they 'cook'. They will keep perfectly well in a cool shed, either as loose bulbs or packed in dry sand etc, but they must be kept dry. Any moisture after about August (as nights cool) will immediately result in root formation - and I mean immediately. Washing bulbs for export last summer, and subsequent storage in a plastic bag for 2 days, led to root appearance that fortunately didn't quite jeopardise the shipping of 'dormant' bulbs, but was not far off. I would certainly not recommend moist vermiculite for shipping unless the presence of roots was not a problem at the other end. Snowdrop bulbs stored dry all last summer and planted out in the garden in November are now coming into flower, only a few days after the established clumps, to my mind totally debunking the myth of the necessity of planting 'in the green', which to my mind is a most deleterious practice that thinking gardeners should not condone. John Grimshaw . Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 COLESBOURNE PARK SNOWDROP OPEN DAYS 2008 January 26/27 and every Saturday & Sunday in February Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Sun Jan 27 18:08:43 2008 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Galanthus phyto requirements Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:08:42 -0500 I find that almost invariably where I err in the storage of bulbs is in keeping them too moist. Woodland corydalis, for example -- which usually arrive from overseas packed in a moistened medium -- actually do better for me packed in a dry medium in plastic bags, which keeps them plump but discourages rooting. The same with most frits and erythroniums. On the other hand, as long as green tissue is not an issue, most bare-root geophytes will keep quite well even if moist and in root. I have separated masses of erythroniums that have formed veritable rootballs within their plastic packing, all the while fearing that I was doing near-lethal harm. But they just shrugged it off. Russell At 05:33 PM 1/27/2008, you wrote: >Galanthus bulbs 'deteriorate' only if kept in conditions of high >temperatures so they 'cook'. They will keep perfectly well in a cool shed, >either as loose bulbs or packed in dry sand etc, but they must be kept dry. >Any moisture after about August (as nights cool) will immediately result in >root formation - and I mean immediately. Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sun Jan 27 18:15:44 2008 Message-Id: <7687621.571371201475732139.JavaMail.www@wwinf2630> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Galanthus in the green Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 00:15:32 +0100 (CET) I would accept snowdrops any time of the year they always grow away as long as they are not cooked as John Grimshaw says in transit or squashed or kept dry for too long.Results from dry bulbs are never on a parr though with freshly dug plants.All growers of Eranthis know this too.As long as they are fed with a general purpose organic fertiliser directly onto the roots and then watered in they just romp away.Water during growth and rich balanced feeding are the key to succes along with frequent division of the clumps.I failed miserably with galanthus reginae-olgae for years because I listened and obeyed that old saw that this species neede a hotter drier position than other species.I always ended up loosing it until it got put in ordinary soil as the others.Now I have great clumps! Only G.cilicicus and G.fosteri perhaps with G.peshmenii ,but even the latter seems not choosy,do well in drier sites in the garden.G.elwesii 'The Bride' is said to need dryish and hot conditions.I will try it in wetter soil from now on as stock is slowly building up. Mark W. Brown P.S. The Hyacinthus orientalis form that I spoke about earlier is in full bloom now and I have some good photos of it if anyone is interested?Any suggestions to it's identity would be very welcome.Could it be ssp.chionophyllus?But it is white and very delicate.Stock originated at the Correvon swiss nursery near Geneva. > Message du 27/01/08 23:33 > De : "John Grimshaw" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [pbs] Galanthus phyto requirements > > Jane McGary wrote > Galanthus bulbs, when stored dry, often deteriorate. > > It is, however, quite feasible to ship the bulbs dormant in late summer, > > as > > long as you keep them slightly moist (I use very slightly moist > > vermiculite > > in plastic bags -- I think plastic didn't exist when the "in the green" > > rule was made). > > Galanthus bulbs 'deteriorate' only if kept in conditions of high > temperatures so they 'cook'. They will keep perfectly well in a cool shed, > either as loose bulbs or packed in dry sand etc, but they must be kept dry. > Any moisture after about August (as nights cool) will immediately result in > root formation - and I mean immediately. Washing bulbs for export last > summer, and subsequent storage in a plastic bag for 2 days, led to root > appearance that fortunately didn't quite jeopardise the shipping of > 'dormant' bulbs, but was not far off. I would certainly not recommend moist > vermiculite for shipping unless the presence of roots was not a problem at > the other end. > > Snowdrop bulbs stored dry all last summer and planted out in the garden in > November are now coming into flower, only a few days after the established > clumps, to my mind totally debunking the myth of the necessity of planting > 'in the green', which to my mind is a most deleterious practice that > thinking gardeners should not condone. > > John Grimshaw > > . > Dr John M. Grimshaw > Sycamore Cottage > Colesbourne > Nr Cheltenham > Gloucestershire GL53 9NP > > Tel. 01242 870567 > > COLESBOURNE PARK SNOWDROP OPEN DAYS 2008 > January 26/27 and every Saturday & Sunday in February > Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm > website: www.colesbournegardens.org.uk > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sun Jan 27 18:19:57 2008 Message-Id: <001101c8613b$5e4cdf00$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Galanthus phyto requirements Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:21:37 -0500 I reading John Grimshaw's comments on storage of dormant Galanthus bulbs, I notice something which might have been insignificant to him yet might have some importance to us (i.e. those of us here in eastern North America). John argues that snowdrop bulbs should be fine in dry storage if they are kept cool and dry. During the bad old days when collected bulbs regularly appeared in the local garden centers, Galanthus plantings always gave irregular first year results. Some bulbs simply didn't grow at all; some grew but only haltingly and without blooming; and some never missed a beat, grew and bloomed. Generally speaking, the ones which grew and bloomed were forms of Galanthus elwesii and related forms. And again generally speaking the ones which grew haltingly and didn't bloom well often turned out to be Galanthus nivalis or related forms. Furthermore, the commonly marketed double-flowered form of Galanthus nivalis behaved no better than the typical form - and if it bloomed the first year the flowers were generally small and not full. Two years ago, with the permission of the site manager, I dug a thick clump of a double-flowered Galanthus nivalis (growing in the mud by the way) naturalized at a local estate. These plants had the best, fullest double flowers I had ever seen in this plant. After the foliage died down, the bulbs were stored in the clod of soil in which they were dug; they were placed in a cold frame in the rain shadow of the house. They were dry all summer, but they were also hot. The bulbs were planted in the garden in the fall, but the first year results were disappointing: for one thing, the clump didn't seem to be very thick. And for another, few of the plants bloomed. Also, and this is the part which really disappointed me, the few flowers formed were malformed and not at all what I expected. Last year they were a bit better. Local retail shops sometimes sell what I believe is Galanthus woronowii: this one too performs badly from dry bulbs. Open to question is the cause of all of this. I've always assumed that it was because the bulbs were kept too dry. But John's comments make me wonder if in addition to being dry the bulbs were kept too warm. It's hard to avoid that in our climate. Last summer, an unusually hot and dry one for us, seems to have cooked one or two of my Fritillaria: when I checked in mid-summer, all I could find were mummies: dry shriveled things with no sign of rot. The same happened with Galanthus reginae-olgae and one of the Erythronium, too. I'm still finessing this business of summer moisture for dormant bulbs. Under my conditions, dryer seems better than moister for many otherwise difficult bulbs. Common sense should have told me that no Galanthus or Erythronium needs the Kalahari treatment: live and learn. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the protected cold frame has been wide open all day. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sun Jan 27 18:46:39 2008 Message-Id: <000a01c8613e$d24b0e60$da48085a@acer6281efdef1> From: "brown.mark" Subject: Galanthus requirements Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 00:46:21 +0100 Dear Jim, If only you could get Galanthus cilicicus and G.fosteri in some good forms you may have better results.These species don't mind drought or heat quite so much as any others,in act they are quite tender especially G.cilicicus which I have to protect from the worst of the cold.G.peshmenii may be a good bet too..G.woronowii grows in wet places in the wild ,in damp meadows and light wet woodlands.So I wouldn't bother with this species.Some G.gracilis forms perhaps too?But even these grow in wet places in Turkey,albeit seasonally wet.I have no experience of the wild conditions of G.elwesii so cannot advise there.All snowdrops are heavy feeders anyway so dust is never an option ever really. So frustrating that I can't send you some bulbs as you could even grow some things better than me! Kind regards, Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McKenney" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 12:21 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Galanthus phyto requirements >I reading John Grimshaw's comments on storage of dormant Galanthus bulbs, I > notice something which might have been insignificant to him yet might have > some importance to us (i.e. those of us here in eastern North America). > > John argues that snowdrop bulbs should be fine in dry storage if they are > kept cool and dry. > > During the bad old days when collected bulbs regularly appeared in the > local > garden centers, Galanthus plantings always gave irregular first year > results. Some bulbs simply didn't grow at all; some grew but only > haltingly > and without blooming; and some never missed a beat, grew and bloomed. > > Generally speaking, the ones which grew and bloomed were forms of > Galanthus > elwesii and related forms. > > And again generally speaking the ones which grew haltingly and didn't > bloom > well often turned out to be Galanthus nivalis or related forms. > > Furthermore, the commonly marketed double-flowered form of Galanthus > nivalis > behaved no better than the typical form - and if it bloomed the first year > the flowers were generally small and not full. > > Two years ago, with the permission of the site manager, I dug a thick > clump > of a double-flowered Galanthus nivalis (growing in the mud by the way) > naturalized at a local estate. These plants had the best, fullest double > flowers I had ever seen in this plant. After the foliage died down, the > bulbs were stored in the clod of soil in which they were dug; they were > placed in a cold frame in the rain shadow of the house. They were dry all > summer, but they were also hot. The bulbs were planted in the garden in > the > fall, but the first year results were disappointing: for one thing, the > clump didn't seem to be very thick. And for another, few of the plants > bloomed. Also, and this is the part which really disappointed me, the few > flowers formed were malformed and not at all what I expected. Last year > they > were a bit better. > > Local retail shops sometimes sell what I believe is Galanthus woronowii: > this one too performs badly from dry bulbs. > > Open to question is the cause of all of this. I've always assumed that it > was because the bulbs were kept too dry. But John's comments make me > wonder > if in addition to being dry the bulbs were kept too warm. It's hard to > avoid > that in our climate. > > Last summer, an unusually hot and dry one for us, seems to have cooked one > or two of my Fritillaria: when I checked in mid-summer, all I could find > were mummies: dry shriveled things with no sign of rot. The same happened > with Galanthus reginae-olgae and one of the Erythronium, too. > > I'm still finessing this business of summer moisture for dormant bulbs. > Under my conditions, dryer seems better than moister for many otherwise > difficult bulbs. Common sense should have told me that no Galanthus or > Erythronium needs the Kalahari treatment: live and learn. > > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the protected cold > frame has been wide open all day. > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sun Jan 27 19:19:33 2008 Message-Id: <001201c86143$b1f53780$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Galanthus requirements Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:21:13 -0500 Thanks for the comments, Mark. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that snowdrops had not done well for me and were lacking in my garden. I'll keep your suggestions in mind; I'm sure there will be space if I ever get the chance to try the ones you mention. Actually, I grow a nice assortment of snowdrops, many obtained years ago from Mr. Mars of Haselmere or later from Avon Bulbs back in the days when plants were sent in the green. In my experience, such plants always arrived in excellent condition. I've got early snowdrops, late snowdrops, singles, doubles, some with narrow foliage, some with broad foliage, some are big, some are small, the green markings on the inner tepals of some are so distinct that I've got pet names for them, and there are some with greenish markings on the outer tepals and one golden snowdrop which appeared in the garden here. Few of these have made it to my web site - I'm not sure why. I like them all very much, and in that affection I see a potential problem: I refuse to start another collection. I've learned to be satisfied with what I've got - or at any rate satisfied most of the time. The snowdrops I grow do well here and are carefree once you get them going. The only problems I've ever encountered with snowdrops were with newly acquired material. Best regards and I hope your garden is soon a blizzard of snowdrop bloom. Jim McKenney From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Mon Jan 28 02:33:55 2008 Message-Id: <6a9ms5$8ao58v@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out1.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: Galanthus requirements Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:19:11 +1100 At 10:46 AM 28/01/2008, you wrote: >Dear Jim, >If only you could get Galanthus cilicicus and G.fosteri in some good forms >you may have better results.These species don't mind drought or heat quite >so much as any others,in act they are quite tender especially G.cilicicus Mark et al, Add Galanthus gracilis to that list. I find that they much prefer here to be in a sunnier drier place than the other Galanthus (and reginae-olgae seem to be quite happy there as well in most cases). The Galanthus gracilis was for a few years in 5 inch squat pots out on my back landing (which means full sun for half the day or more in summer) and they thrived, multiplied and flowered freely. One year I realised that I shouldn't be doing this (I'd relaised this before, jsut not thought about it during summer) so I repotted them into a bigger pot (around 30 bulbs by that stage) and put them in more shade and kept them damper. They grew and flowered and when repotted the next season there was not a single bulb left in there. Thankfully I had dropped a couple into the ground in a warmer drier summer area (not talking full sun here, but definitely hotter and drier than traditional Galanthus conditions) and I have established a large clump there. I eventually lifted a couple back into a pot and put it back in the original conditions I had them in on the back landing...... those couple within a couple of years multiplied to around 15, probably half of them flowering sized I would hazard. It just goes to show if something works well for you don't change it, whatever the books or advice from people might say!! (The loss of the Primula auricula collection after such advice cured me of that, let me tell you!!) All the best from a fellow hopelessly addicted Galanthus collector. Cheers. Paul T. Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Galanthus, Irises, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Mon Jan 28 03:07:34 2008 Message-Id: <29525322.728021201507170869.JavaMail.www@wwinf1b18> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Galanthus  requirements Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 08:59:30 +0100 (CET) Hi Paul, i was very interested to hear of australian snowdrops!I hear precious little about them.Interesting comments about G.gracilis.Yes it is always said to be a species for hotter conditions.But oddly last spring I found it growing alongside ,perhaps seasonal, streams in Turkey.True in other places it shot up from heaps of stones so would never get a baking really.And also grew in the base of various 2m tall or so spiny shrubs on the shady side,mostly to avoid grazing animals I suppose.It was never in direct sun there. Kind regards, Mark > Message du 28/01/08 08:34 > De : "Paul T." > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [pbs] Galanthus requirements > > At 10:46 AM 28/01/2008, you wrote: > >Dear Jim, > >If only you could get Galanthus cilicicus and G.fosteri in some good forms > >you may have better results.These species don't mind drought or heat quite > >so much as any others,in act they are quite tender especially G.cilicicus > > Mark et al, > > Add Galanthus gracilis to that list. I find that they much prefer > here to be in a sunnier drier place than the other Galanthus (and > reginae-olgae seem to be quite happy there as well in most > cases). The Galanthus gracilis was for a few years in 5 inch squat > pots out on my back landing (which means full sun for half the day or > more in summer) and they thrived, multiplied and flowered > freely. One year I realised that I shouldn't be doing this (I'd > relaised this before, jsut not thought about it during summer) so I > repotted them into a bigger pot (around 30 bulbs by that stage) and > put them in more shade and kept them damper. They grew and flowered > and when repotted the next season there was not a single bulb left in > there. Thankfully I had dropped a couple into the ground in a warmer > drier summer area (not talking full sun here, but definitely hotter > and drier than traditional Galanthus conditions) and I have > established a large clump there. I eventually lifted a couple back > into a pot and put it back in the original conditions I had them in > on the back landing...... those couple within a couple of years > multiplied to around 15, probably half of them flowering sized I > would hazard. It just goes to show if something works well for you > don't change it, whatever the books or advice from people might say!! > (The loss of the Primula auricula collection after such advice cured > me of that, let me tell you!!) > > All the best from a fellow hopelessly addicted Galanthus collector. > > Cheers. > > Paul T. > Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 > > Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world > including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, > Galanthus, Irises, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about > anything else that doesn't move!! > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Mon Jan 28 03:09:52 2008 Message-Id: <000701c86184$0d3fee10$a433085a@acer6281efdef1> From: "brown.mark" Subject: Galanthus requirements Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:01:56 +0100 Jim ,any chance of a list of your "collection"? Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McKenney" To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Galanthus requirements > Thanks for the comments, Mark. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that > snowdrops had not done well for me and were lacking in my garden. > > I'll keep your suggestions in mind; I'm sure there will be space if I ever > get the chance to try the ones you mention. > > Actually, I grow a nice assortment of snowdrops, many obtained years ago > from Mr. Mars of Haselmere or later from Avon Bulbs back in the days when > plants were sent in the green. In my experience, such plants always > arrived > in excellent condition. I've got early snowdrops, late snowdrops, singles, > doubles, some with narrow foliage, some with broad foliage, some are big, > some are small, the green markings on the inner tepals of some are so > distinct that I've got pet names for them, and there are some with > greenish > markings on the outer tepals and one golden snowdrop which appeared in the > garden here. > > Few of these have made it to my web site - I'm not sure why. > > I like them all very much, and in that affection I see a potential > problem: > I refuse to start another collection. I've learned to be satisfied with > what > I've got - or at any rate satisfied most of the time. > > The snowdrops I grow do well here and are carefree once you get them > going. > The only problems I've ever encountered with snowdrops were with newly > acquired material. > > Best regards and I hope your garden is soon a blizzard of snowdrop bloom. > > Jim McKenney > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Mon Jan 28 09:33:42 2008 Message-Id: <000901c861b9$f49293f0$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Galanthus requirements Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:27:46 -0500 Mark asked Jim ,any chance of a list of your "collection"? Well, here it is, more or less. It's not much of a collection, Mark, and there is nothing in my collection which would be of interest to a confirmed galanthomane. I've been out of the loop for a long time. Here's a list of about two dozen forms which either have cultivar names or home made "pet" names. The names in single quotes ' are standard cultivars; the names in double quotes " are cultivars selected in the garden and are simply my pet names not meant to be taken seriously by others. Botanical names are in italics. 'Cornelia': this grew here for years before finally blooming; it has now bloomed three years in a row, but the flowers are often malformed, sometimes perfect 'Lady Beatrix Stanley': this double has been very reliable 'Sam Arnott': two clumps which seem identical except that one has occasionally thrown double scapes in the style attributed to 'Straffan'. Pictures have not helped me with this one. 'Benthall Beauty' 'Atkinsii' (the deformed one) "golden Atkinsii" a sometimes yellow form which appeared here several years ago fosteri byzantinus "tuning fork" an elwesii selection made here with green markings in the shape of that implement; this might be worthy of wider distribution. It has very broad tepals which are short and thus rounded; there is a hint of the seersucker effect seen in 'Augustus'. I've had trouble building up stock of this one because a family member makes a bee line to it when it is in bloom and pulls the flowers with its leaves. It stands out that well! "Thanksgiving" an elwesii selection made here which ofen blooms in late November (our Thanksgiving holiday) "Christmas" an elwesii selection made here which often blooms at Christmas 'Augustus': a favorite for the seersucker effect seen on the outer tepals and also the broad foliage 'Scharlockii': my stock is either mixed with 'Viridapicis' or mutates back and forth to a form like it. Years ago this stock collapsed and went into a steep decline. Very slowly it recovered, but when the recovered plants began to bloom again the flowers seemed to be intermediate between the two cultivars mentioned. Sometimes the divided spathe characteristic of Scharlockii appears, sometimes the spathe is simply deformed, and sometimes is is more or less normal. "as Magnet": this might be true to name but I'm not sure "caucasicus" = elwesii of the monostictus sort, several clones not much alike but some have the biggest flowers and foliage of any Galanthus I've grown. One in particular I call "Bassett hound" because of the huge drooping tepals and another I call "helicopter" because in warmth the tepals stand out horizontally like the blades of a helicopter. When mature, the foliage of these plants suggests that of young Allium stipitatum: it's that big! woronowii plicatus received as "Warham" but I'm uncertain nivalis small with narrow foliage nivalis broader foliage, taller, perhaps a named cultivar which has lost its ID nivalis with double flowers indet: bright green foliage (i.e. not glaucous) indet: narrow foliage, short, does not bloom: this is another stock which collapsed years ago and has very slowly built up strength, but not enough to bloom. indet: shapely blooms, foliage late to emerge, another cultivar which has lost its name, perhaps a plicatus cultivar to judge from the foliage. After growing here for years, the following disappeared the year before last: 'Allenii': 'Robin Hood' I've used several of the snowdrop sites (including yours, Mark) now on the web to help sort out my collection. But even with that help, I have sorts which I have not pinned down yet. Also, years ago several hundred Galanthus elwesii were planted in the lawn. When these plants bloomed it was apparent that they were wild collected and extremely variable in terms of their green markings and bloom dates. The three listed as ":Thanksgiving" "Christmas" and "tuning fork" are from this lot, but numerous other forms could easily be separated. There are some with elongated ovaries which are very distinct. Others are confusingly like the elwesii cultivars I see on web sites. I just put up a temporary web page to show you some of these. Please take a look at: http://www.jimmckenney.com/some_snowdrop_selections_from_my.htm Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where witch hazels, wintersweet, Galanthus elwesii and Helleborus foetidus are all blooming. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon Jan 28 13:27:51 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080128101807.017430c0@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Galanthus requirements Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:29:07 -0800 Thanks to John Grimshaw for clarifying the best way to store bare Galanthus bulbs. I'll cease moistening the vermiculite as long as the bulbs have no roots when lifted. I do keep all my sale bulbs cool until shipping. Sometimes, however, particularly I think because nights are quite cool in midsummer at this elevation, certain plants (mostly amaryllids) have begun root growth by late July when I lift them, and in that case I think a faint bit of moisture is needed -- or is it? It's not unusual, e.g., for Acis autumnalis (Leucojum a.) to flower here in early August. I've been storing most of the bare bulbs in paper bags in a dim, cool room (my dining room -- no indoor dinner parties in August!), but have used thin plastic bags (not Ziploc, but the very thin kind sold as sandwich bags) for some, such as Galanthus and some of the Fritillaria species. A friend who is a very good propagator told me the thin plastic film doesn't trap quite as much moisture as thicker poly film -- is that so? The vermiculite is partly to cushion the bulbs against bruising and partly I think it will absorb any excess moisture from them. This is all intuitive, however, so it may be wrong. I have Galanthus fosteri, obtained from England many years ago, and as Mark says, it tolerates a warm, rather dry position quite well, but it also grows well in shade. (Almost all soils in my garden are fast-draining.) G. peshmenii I would say is a shade plant, but when I saw it in Turkey, it was always in extremely well-drained positions, even in the leafmold that had collected on top of a big boulder. Like another correspondent, I find that G. reginae-olgae does best with some summer water. I saw it in Greece growing in a very dim shady site in oak leafmold, among large rocks. There are a few snowdrops blooming in the garden now, somewhere under the foot of snow that fell yesterday. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA From rdjenkins@bellsouth.net Tue Jan 29 00:21:29 2008 Message-Id: <000e01c86236$c7af2740$6101a8c0@JenkinsMachine> From: "rdjenkins" Subject: NPK ratios? Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 00:21:15 -0500 I have been wondering about the various ratios of the three main nutritional elements in prepared fertilizers and have a few questions that I hope someone can help me answer or point me to where I may find them. This past summer, I switched to a brand-name product to feed my Hippeastrums. The ratio I chose was 24-8-16. I had excellent results. I have two H. papilios in bloom just now: one has three scapes and the other has two. I have had both bulbs for just over two years and they are the common Dutch run. Both have a scape with three (yes!) blooms in the peduncle. Obviously, the lower proportion of P has had no negative effect and the higher N content only helped grow the great foliage and size up the bulbs. Contrary to some warnings I received, the foliage wasn't unnaturally lush, tender or weak, but was as healthy and as strong as I have ever seen it. And contrary to what is often promoted for other non-bulbous plants (higher P percentage) and might seem to be called for in Hippis in what seems to be a logical and sensible way, my plants had everything they needed to flower better than ever with the higher N and lower P ratio. I know that applying N alone can "push" green growth to the expense of floral production in many annuals. One question I have about blooming annuals is how much "pushing" occurs as a result of a higher proportion of P on the blossoming of annuals? This is more for general interest, since I am really more concerned with Hippis. For instance: If I am feeding a plant 5-15-5, is there something in the 1-3-1 *ratio* that "pushes" flowering more than 15-15-15, since the plant is getting the same amount of P in both cases? Would it be a matter of the plant making use of the more abundant element in the 5-15-5 feed, whereas with the 15-15-15, the plant's energy is divided between green and flower, so it might have less abundant flowers? Back to bulbs: As I understand it, the various ratios for blooming plants comes out of chemical analysis of the entire plant to find out where the N-P-K ends up (as well as observations of differences in color, strength, and quality of different plant parts.So, blooms showed higher P content and for better blooms more P was prescribed. How much is "too much"? That is, from this past season's results, 24-8-16 at a constant dilute feed was obviously good enough to supply what my bulbs needed to grow and produce buds, could it still make use of more of any element? When is a plant's mouth full and unused elements just stay in the soil unused and possibly building up to toxic levels? Another question: Do the different proportions make a chemical difference in the bulb itself or is it all one form that ends up in different concentrations depending on target? I hope you can understand, perhaps between the lines, what I am wondering about. Since all the different ratios of NPK cost the same by-the-box for me, it isn't a matter of paying for something my plant can't use, but if I was preparing my own, cost might or might not be a factor in adding essentially unused levels of nutrients. Robert. From h.joschko@freenet.de Tue Jan 29 09:13:25 2008 Message-Id: From: "Hans Joschko" Subject: Haemanthus leaves Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:13:34 +0100 Hi all, here is a remember from last year : [IMG]http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa49/creta96/Haem.Xclarkei.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa49/creta96/Haem.coccineus.jpg[/IMG ] today looks the leaves : [IMG]http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa49/creta96/HXclarkei2008-01-29.jpg [/IMG] H. coccineus [IMG]http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa49/creta96/Hcoccineus2008-01-29.jp g[/IMG] H.X clarkei Kind regards Hans From h.joschko@freenet.de Tue Jan 29 10:07:31 2008 Message-Id: From: "Hans Joschko" Subject: Acis 2008 Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:07:27 +0100 Hi all, Hi all , today is flowering : Acis tingitana http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa49/creta96/Atingitana2008-0129.jpg From h.joschko@freenet.de Tue Jan 29 10:18:08 2008 Message-Id: From: "Hans Joschko" Subject: Haemanthus leaves new Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:18:21 +0100 Hi all, Sorry my other mail has wrong links : here is a remember from last year : http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa49/creta96/Haem.Xclarkei.jpg http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa49/creta96/Haem.coccineus.jpg today looks the leaves : http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa49/creta96/HXclarkei2008-01-29.jpg http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa49/creta96/Hcoccineus2008-01-29.jpg Kind regards Hans From crinum@libero.it Tue Jan 29 10:22:49 2008 Message-Id: From: "Alberto Grossi" Subject: Acis 2008 Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:22:36 +0100 Hans, great blooming! Bravo Alberto ---------- Initial Header ----------- From : pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org To : "Pacific Bulb Society" pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc : Date : Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:07:27 +0100 Subject : [pbs] Acis 2008 > Hi all, > > Hi all , > > today is flowering : > > Acis tingitana > http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa49/creta96/Atingitana2008-0129.jpg > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > Alberto Grossi Italy From othonna@gmail.com Tue Jan 29 22:55:08 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260801291954t1a90f590g647a6fe242492f1f@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: NPK ratios? Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 19:54:36 -0800 Good questions, Robert. I will share a few things I have learned over the years and hopefully you can apply some of them to your situation. A few years ago a friend told me that his agriculture advisor told him that unless you are growing turf or bedding plants the ratio should be about 1:2:2 or 1:2:3. Otherwise you are wasting the N or possibly risking toxicity-- in your case it could be that there would have been plenty of N for your Hipps if you used half the ratio amount of your formulation, increasing the dilution rate as necessary. Since I learned this and also observed the results my friend got using such a formula with his orchids, succulents, etc., I have switched to a rather strange-sounding 5-11-26 hydroponic formula made by Grow More. A bag of about 40 lbs costs about 25.00. Since using it on a very wide range of plants, including aroids, orchids, amaryllids, succulents, ferns, etc., I am very happy with the results. Plants bloom better than before and growth is strong and never lush. I don't grow commercially so am not concerned with "pushing growth". Yes, there is something to the ratio situation that is important here but I don't know how it works exactly. The three major components work together chemically to some extent (versus independently), along with the minors, and the interrelationships between them and with the soil (pH, cation exchange capacity, etc.) are complex. If you are blessed with good water quality you have already cleared some major hurdles. As far as rates I apply N at between 150 and 200 ppm or a little higher; I think it could go quite a bit higher, at least occasionally, without any harm. I fertilize with nearly every watering and so keep the concentrations low generally-- but note that at 200 ppm N for this formula the K is over 1000 ppm! Once in a while I apply calcium nitrate separately to supply calcium, especially to epiphytes. A word about nitrogen. Many years ago Fred Meyer told me that amaryllids like Hippeastrum and many others (but not so much hardier fare like Crinum or Narcissus) resent N in the form it typically appears in fertilizers: as ammonia or urea nitrogen. I made the switch to orchid fertilizers such as Dyna-Grow years ago just to get N comprised of mostly nitrate nitrogen, with a small percentage of ammonia nitrogen. I bloomed some difficult bulbs when I did this, plants that had not flowered for 10+ years previously (Hippeastrum parodii, Paramongaia, etc.). Nitrate nitrogen is worth the moderate extra cost in my view and it is not difficult to find brands that use it. You should not have to worry about any salt build-up unless you are not watering thoroughly or your fertilizer is too concentrated and applied too often. I try to double water plants every time I water and have very little problems with excess salts. Dylan On Jan 28, 2008 9:21 PM, rdjenkins wrote: > I have been wondering about the various ratios of the three main > nutritional elements in prepared fertilizers and have a few questions that I > hope someone can help me answer or point me to where I may find them. > > This past summer, I switched to a brand-name product to feed my > Hippeastrums. The ratio I chose was 24-8-16. I had excellent results. > > I have two H. papilios in bloom just now: one has three scapes and the > other has two. I have had both bulbs for just over two years and they are > the common Dutch run. Both have a scape with three (yes!) blooms in the > peduncle. > > Obviously, the lower proportion of P has had no negative effect and the > higher N content only helped grow the great foliage and size up the bulbs. > Contrary to some warnings I received, the foliage wasn't unnaturally lush, > tender or weak, but was as healthy and as strong as I have ever seen it. And > contrary to what is often promoted for other non-bulbous plants (higher P > percentage) and might seem to be called for in Hippis in what seems to be a > logical and sensible way, my plants had everything they needed to flower > better than ever with the higher N and lower P ratio. > > I know that applying N alone can "push" green growth to the expense of > floral production in many annuals. One question I have about blooming > annuals is how much "pushing" occurs as a result of a higher proportion of P > on the blossoming of annuals? This is more for general interest, since I am > really more concerned with Hippis. > > For instance: If I am feeding a plant 5-15-5, is there something in the > 1-3-1 *ratio* that "pushes" flowering more than 15-15-15, since the plant is > getting the same amount of P in both cases? Would it be a matter of the > plant making use of the more abundant element in the 5-15-5 feed, whereas > with the 15-15-15, the plant's energy is divided between green and flower, > so it might have less abundant flowers? > > Back to bulbs: As I understand it, the various ratios for blooming plants > comes out of chemical analysis of the entire plant to find out where the > N-P-K ends up (as well as observations of differences in color, strength, > and quality of different plant parts.So, blooms showed higher P content > and for better blooms more P was prescribed. > > How much is "too much"? That is, from this past season's results, 24-8-16 > at a constant dilute feed was obviously good enough to supply what my bulbs > needed to grow and produce buds, could it still make use of more of any > element? When is a plant's mouth full and unused elements just stay in the > soil unused and possibly building up to toxic levels? > > Another question: Do the different proportions make a chemical difference > in the bulb itself or is it all one form that ends up in different > concentrations depending on target? > > I hope you can understand, perhaps between the lines, what I am wondering > about. Since all the different ratios of NPK cost the same by-the-box for > me, it isn't a matter of paying for something my plant can't use, but if I > was preparing my own, cost might or might not be a factor in adding > essentially unused levels of nutrients. > > Robert. > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jglatt@hughes.net Wed Jan 30 06:55:42 2008 Message-Id: <47A065B6.1020000@hughes.net> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: Fertilizer Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 06:55:34 -0500 There's a soluble fertilizer (one of those blue crystal-dissolve-in-water kind) with a 10-30-20 ratio. Used to be sold as Peter's Blossom Booster, now available as Jack's Classic. It has long been my favorite for potted bulbs and indeed, for most potted plants. With outdoor plants is not merely healthy growth that I'm concerned about. Here in deer country Bambi and his relatives love lush, well-fertilized plants. They'll walk right past the wild-growing, untended Hemerocallis fulva in order to chow down on cultivated, fertilized cultivars in the garden. Accordingly, I prefer to grow plants somewhat on the lean side - gourmet rather than glutton. I fertilize when planting / transplanting, use a granular 5-10-10 incorporated with the soil and Jack's Classic as an aid to overcome transplant shock for plants that are in active growth at that time. I've also used it as a root soak for dormant bulbs with permanent roots prior to planting - lilies in spring, for example, but not in fall, and also for hippeastrum. Anyone else have thoughts about timing of fertilization? Judy in New Jersey where the days are obviously lengthening and my mantra is "Every day is another day closer to Spring." From jglatt@hughes.net Wed Jan 30 07:01:14 2008 Message-Id: <47A06702.9080702@hughes.net> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: Coldframes Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 07:01:06 -0500 Coldframes have been mentioned on several occasions. Later in the Spring I'll be teaching a one day class about cold frames, and would be interested in members experiences - when you started, how it's built, what you grow. I want students to know that there are numerous people out there who use these handy adjuncts to gardening in a diversity of ways for growing many different plants. Since this is possibly somewhat off-topic, anyone who wants to share information is welcome to e-mail me directly. Thanks in advance. Judy in New Jersey where last night's precipitation fell as rain (and not that there is any connection) but my sister in Jerusalem reports a snow-covered landscape when she awoke this morning. From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Wed Jan 30 08:33:32 2008 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: NPK ratios? Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:33:19 +0000 WHEN I GROW OLDER, I WANT TO BE LIKE YOU!!!! > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 19:54:36 -0800> From: othonna@gmail.com> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: Re: [pbs] NPK ratios?> > Good questions, Robert. I will share a few things I have learned over the> years and hopefully you can apply some of them to your situation.> A few years ago a friend told me that his agriculture advisor told him that> unless you are growing turf or bedding plants the ratio should be about> 1:2:2 or 1:2:3. Otherwise you are wasting the N or possibly risking> toxicity-- in your case it could be that there would have been plenty of N> for your Hipps if you used half the ratio amount of your formulation,> increasing the dilution rate as necessary. Since I learned this and also> observed the results my friend got using such a formula with his orchids,> succulents, etc., I have switched to a rather strange-sounding 5-11-26> hydroponic formula made by Grow More. A bag of about 40 lbs costs about> 25.00. Since using it on a very wide range of plants, including aroids,> orchids, amaryllids, succulents, ferns, etc., I am very happy with the> results. Plants bloom better than before and growth is strong and never> lush. I don't grow commercially so am not concerned with "pushing growth".> > Yes, there is something to the ratio situation that is important here but I> don't know how it works exactly. The three major components work together> chemically to some extent (versus independently), along with the minors, and> the interrelationships between them and with the soil (pH, cation exchange> capacity, etc.) are complex. If you are blessed with good water quality you> have already cleared some major hurdles.> > As far as rates I apply N at between 150 and 200 ppm or a little higher; I> think it could go quite a bit higher, at least occasionally, without any> harm. I fertilize with nearly every watering and so keep the concentrations> low generally-- but note that at 200 ppm N for this formula the K is over> 1000 ppm! Once in a while I apply calcium nitrate separately to supply> calcium, especially to epiphytes.> > A word about nitrogen. Many years ago Fred Meyer told me that amaryllids> like Hippeastrum and many others (but not so much hardier fare like Crinum> or Narcissus) resent N in the form it typically appears in fertilizers: as> ammonia or urea nitrogen. I made the switch to orchid fertilizers such as> Dyna-Grow years ago just to get N comprised of mostly nitrate nitrogen, with> a small percentage of ammonia nitrogen. I bloomed some difficult bulbs when> I did this, plants that had not flowered for 10+ years previously> (Hippeastrum parodii, Paramongaia, etc.). Nitrate nitrogen is worth the> moderate extra cost in my view and it is not difficult to find brands that> use it.> > You should not have to worry about any salt build-up unless you are not> watering thoroughly or your fertilizer is too concentrated and applied too> often. I try to double water plants every time I water and have very little> problems with excess salts.> > Dylan> > On Jan 28, 2008 9:21 PM, rdjenkins wrote:> > > I have been wondering about the various ratios of the three main> > nutritional elements in prepared fertilizers and have a few questions that I> > hope someone can help me answer or point me to where I may find them.> >> > This past summer, I switched to a brand-name product to feed my> > Hippeastrums. The ratio I chose was 24-8-16. I had excellent results.> >> > I have two H. papilios in bloom just now: one has three scapes and the> > other has two. I have had both bulbs for just over two years and they are> > the common Dutch run. Both have a scape with three (yes!) blooms in the> > peduncle.> >> > Obviously, the lower proportion of P has had no negative effect and the> > higher N content only helped grow the great foliage and size up the bulbs.> > Contrary to some warnings I received, the foliage wasn't unnaturally lush,> > tender or weak, but was as healthy and as strong as I have ever seen it. And> > contrary to what is often promoted for other non-bulbous plants (higher P> > percentage) and might seem to be called for in Hippis in what seems to be a> > logical and sensible way, my plants had everything they needed to flower> > better than ever with the higher N and lower P ratio.> >> > I know that applying N alone can "push" green growth to the expense of> > floral production in many annuals. One question I have about blooming> > annuals is how much "pushing" occurs as a result of a higher proportion of P> > on the blossoming of annuals? This is more for general interest, since I am> > really more concerned with Hippis.> >> > For instance: If I am feeding a plant 5-15-5, is there something in the> > 1-3-1 *ratio* that "pushes" flowering more than 15-15-15, since the plant is> > getting the same amount of P in both cases? Would it be a matter of the> > plant making use of the more abundant element in the 5-15-5 feed, whereas> > with the 15-15-15, the plant's energy is divided between green and flower,> > so it might have less abundant flowers?> >> > Back to bulbs: As I understand it, the various ratios for blooming plants> > comes out of chemical analysis of the entire plant to find out where the> > N-P-K ends up (as well as observations of differences in color, strength,> > and quality of different plant parts.So, blooms showed higher P content> > and for better blooms more P was prescribed.> >> > How much is "too much"? That is, from this past season's results, 24-8-16> > at a constant dilute feed was obviously good enough to supply what my bulbs> > needed to grow and produce buds, could it still make use of more of any> > element? When is a plant's mouth full and unused elements just stay in the> > soil unused and possibly building up to toxic levels?> >> > Another question: Do the different proportions make a chemical difference> > in the bulb itself or is it all one form that ends up in different> > concentrations depending on target?> >> > I hope you can understand, perhaps between the lines, what I am wondering> > about. Since all the different ratios of NPK cost the same by-the-box for> > me, it isn't a matter of paying for something my plant can't use, but if I> > was preparing my own, cost might or might not be a factor in adding> > essentially unused levels of nutrients.> >> > Robert.> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________> > pbs mailing list> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php> > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki> >> _______________________________________________> pbs mailing list> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From oregonnativeplant@yahoo.com Wed Jan 30 09:45:40 2008 Message-Id: <517146.9729.qm@web52302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Subject: BX wish list Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 06:45:35 -0800 (PST) Dell, My wish list includes North American Erythronium taxa, specifically midwestern and southern species: Erythronium mesochoreum Erythonium propullans Erythronium rostratum Thank you, Douglas Chadwick Dell Sherk wrote: Dear All, I would like to invite and encourage you to share with us your wish list of seeds, bulbs, etc. that you would like to see offered on the BX. This will be a guide to me in securing some of these things to offer, and it will help donors know what they can send. After all, as they say, "One man's junk is another man's treasure." Just because you have excess of a plant that you consider almost a weed, and you throw them into the compost heap, does not mean that someone in our group might not be dying to grow that very same plant. Let us hear from you! Dell Dell Sherk, Director, PBS BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. From piabinha@yahoo.com Wed Jan 30 12:03:17 2008 Message-Id: <107811.66530.qm@web51911.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: BX wish list Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 09:03:17 -0800 (PST) my wish list includes: more space, more time, and more resources -- before any more plants... ========= tsuh yang ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From carlobal@netzero.net Wed Jan 30 12:08:24 2008 Message-Id: <20080130.120641.25418.1@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> From: "carlobal@netzero.net" Subject: BX wish list Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:06:41 GMT Tsuh, you are being TOO good and appropriate (more space, more time, etc. before more plants). What fun is that? Carlo A. Balistrieri The Gardens at Turtle Point Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 Zone 6 (845.351.2049) Visit: www.botanicalgardening.com _____________________________________________________________ Click to begin your health care training online. Request info today. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4vEFSr0FBOBx3meltLz45Q5GHa9oNdED613OLPckunODn1yt/ From honeybunny442@yahoo.com Wed Jan 30 12:11:40 2008 Message-Id: <56920.76204.qm@web56109.mail.re3.yahoo.com> From: Susan B Subject: BX wish list Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 09:11:39 -0800 (PST) My wish list is Zantedeschia aethiopica varieties. They have them in the UK but won't share! Like: Aethiopica Highwood Aethiopica Icetelli Aethiopica Innocence Aethiopica Kikki Aethiopica Kiwi Blush Aethiopica Lady Franck Aethiopica Lisa Aethiopica Little Gem etc etc Susan B. --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Wed Jan 30 12:37:19 2008 Message-Id: <000601c86367$029b1b80$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Asphodelus acauils Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:39:04 -0500 Although things in general are pretty quiet in my protected cold frame, little Asphodelus acaulis has started to bloom. What a charmer this one is! I don't know how hardy this one is, so it's in the cold frame for now. My friend Alice, from whom I got my plant (ultimately it was from Jane McGary) grows it in the open garden - but she gardens in a somewhat more protected area than I. Does anyone in zone 6 or lower have experience with this plant in the open garden? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where the first Narcissus are showing color in the cold frame. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From fbiasella@watertownsavings.com Wed Jan 30 12:46:38 2008 Message-Id: <006001c86367$e674ba50$55a7f10a@wsbmain.net> From: "Fred Biasella" Subject: BX wish list Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:45:27 -0500 I would very much like more Pleione Orchids (species & hybrids) available in the U.S. but at an affordable price. The U.K. has plenty and I think they should share them wit us (grin). They are obtainable in North America (Canada) but the prices are almost un-touchable, especially to us regular gardening shmoos that are looking for different stuff. Fred Biasella Cambridge (Boston) MA From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed Jan 30 13:55:04 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080130105528.0173df40@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Asphodelus acauils Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:00:11 -0800 Jim mentioned his Asphodelus acaulis, apparently an offset of a plant I sent to someone else in his area. I don't think I had enough seed of this plant to donate to an exchange until 2007. This is a very pretty winter-flowering plant from Morocco, producing peach-pink flowers on very short stems and with a lax basal rosette of leaves. It makes slowly increasing crowns, and the one that blooms seems to die afterward. I grow it in a frame that is dry in summer, in a large mesh basket. It is not a bulb but rather a growing point with a number of storage roots, similar to a small Eremurus. There are a number of species of Asphodelus around the Mediterranean, where they are often the dominant flowering herbs in the landscape because they are not eaten by goats. I also grow A. albus in a border and have young plants of a couple of other species. The large species have lush foliage that withers by midsummer, and they are easily divided when dormant. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA still snowed in From norwesgard@earthlink.net Wed Jan 30 14:14:11 2008 Message-Id: <780963C2-5BF2-4671-875E-01BCFB1A5AE7@earthlink.net> From: Mary Gutierrez Subject: question about primulinus glads Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:07:35 -0800 Hi all - Is "primulinus" a specific epithet for a Gladiolus, or is it a common name attached to some forms of Gladiolus hybrids? When I google the term, some websites come up showing Gladiolus primulinus as a species but for some reason I'm not confident about that. I don't see it in any of the reference books I trust, or on the PBS wiki. thanks! Mary Gutierrez Seattle From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Wed Jan 30 14:12:55 2008 Message-Id: <47A0CC38.1010701@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Coldframes Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:12:56 -0800 I don't think this is off-topic, since the PBS is all about 'Gardening with Bulbs'. That should be able to cover many aspects of growing bulbs in additon to information about the specialty bulbs most of us grow. Marguerite Judy Glattstein wrote: > Coldframes have been ... Since this is possibly somewhat > off-topic, anyone who wants to share information is welcome to e-mail me > directly. > From msittner@mcn.org Wed Jan 30 15:11:16 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080130120142.03490ac8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: question about primulinus glads Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:08:44 -0800 Hi Mary, Both Kew and Gladiolus in Tropical Africa by Goldblatt list Gladiolus primulinus as a synonym for Gladiolus dalenii subsp. dalenii. (Type: Tanzania, Dodoma, Usagara Mountains) Gladiolus primulinus Baker, Gard. Chron., III, 8: 122 (1890). Mary Sue From roysachs@yahoo.com Wed Jan 30 16:11:26 2008 Message-Id: <546209.29214.qm@web53705.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Roy Sachs Subject: BX wish list Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:11:20 -0800 (PST) Ditto on all Zantedeschia species not just the aethiopica ----- Original Message ---- From: Susan B To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 9:11:39 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] BX wish list My wish list is Zantedeschia aethiopica varieties. They have them in the UK but won't share! Like: Aethiopica Highwood Aethiopica Icetelli Aethiopica Innocence Aethiopica Kikki Aethiopica Kiwi Blush Aethiopica Lady Franck Aethiopica Lisa Aethiopica Little Gem etc etc Susan B. --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Wed Jan 30 16:20:40 2008 Message-Id: <000501c86384$c152a170$20ad4c42@DJ9SK221> From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: NPK ratios? Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:12:00 -0800 It is also my understanding that nitrate nitrogen, in the form of potassium nitrate or calcium nitrate, is better absorbed at lower temperatures, so this is important for those bulbs that grow during the winter. The formulation I use has both ammonium nitrite and potassium nitrate, but the main ingredient is potassium nitrate. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs ----- > A word about nitrogen. Many years ago Fred Meyer told me that amaryllids > like Hippeastrum and many others (but not so much hardier fare like Crinum > or Narcissus) resent N in the form it typically appears in fertilizers: as > ammonia or urea nitrogen. I made the switch to orchid fertilizers such as > Dyna-Grow years ago just to get N comprised of mostly nitrate nitrogen, > with > a small percentage of ammonia nitrogen. I bloomed some difficult bulbs > when > I did this, plants that had not flowered for 10+ years previously > (Hippeastrum parodii, Paramongaia, etc.). Nitrate nitrogen is worth the > moderate extra cost in my view and it is not difficult to find brands that > use it. From jshields@indy.net Wed Jan 30 17:53:29 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080130164608.0280d038@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: NPK ratios? Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:53:12 -0500 Diana and all, I agree with Diana --- my understanding from 30 years ago is that ammonium nitrogen is absorbed under all conditions relatively poorly by plant roots, compared to nitrate. On the other hand, ammonium is the preferred form of nitrogen for all fungi and many bacteria. Len Doran drove this point home to those of us whom he undertook to coach: Ammonium feeds the pathogens trying to kill your bulb, nitrate feeds the plant! In Narcissus poeticus (Vickery et al, 1946, cited in Rees) they found that the plant tissue analyzed as follows: Bulbs grown on nitrate as source of nitrogen, 15.9 g N per 50 bulbs Bulbs grown on ammonium as source of nitrogen, 14.0 g per 50 bulbs. My bibles, (post Doran), have been "The Growth of Bulbs" by A. R. Rees, pub. by Academic Press, New York & London, 1972 and "The Physiology of Flower Bubls" by A. de Hertogh and M. Le Nard, pub. by Elsevier, Amsterdam & New York, 1993 The point made by Doran was the same as that made by Rees: Bulbs need nutrients in the approximate ratio the nutrients occur in the healthy bulb tissue. Plants are also limited by any nutrient that is present in significantly less than needed levels. Unfortunately, only Gladiolus, Lilium, and Tulipa have been studied in detail. As a general thing, the ratio of N, P, and K in plant tissue is about 4 N to 0.3 P to 2 K. The precise ratios can vary not only from genus to genus but from cultivar to cultivar. The question of the effects of nutrient ratios on efficiency of absorption is not resolved so far as I can recall -- or my knowledge may be decades out of date. I am not aware the N, P, and K affect each others absorption rates. Mg (magnesium), Ca (calcium) and K (potassium) are similar in ionic charge (Mg and Ca) and in size (Ca and K) and are said to be able to interfere with each other's absorption. This alone might indicate that applying calcium at a different time than magnesium would increase the effectiveness of the applied nutrients. Loading the fertilizer up with phosphate is relatively harmless in soilless growth medium. In soil, excess phosphate can tie up iron, calcium, and probably a couple of the trace elements, depending on the ambient soil pH. Phosphate is of course essential for plant growth, but in significantly smaller amounts that N and K. I've never understood where people are coming from when they recommend high phosphate fertilizers; this just does not make physiological sense to me. Jim Shields in cold central Indiana (USA) At 01:12 PM 1/30/2008 -0800, you wrote: >It is also my understanding that nitrate nitrogen, in the form of potassium >nitrate or calcium nitrate, is better absorbed at lower temperatures, so >this is important for those bulbs that grow during the winter. The >formulation I use has both ammonium nitrite and potassium nitrate, but the >main ingredient is potassium nitrate. > >Diana >Telos Rare Bulbs ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From totototo@telus.net Wed Jan 30 18:28:15 2008 Message-Id: <20080130232711.1FE3RNTN3S@priv-edtnaa06.telusplanet.net> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Coldframes Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:29:46 -0800 On 30 Jan 08, at 7:01, Judy Glattstein wrote: > Coldframes have been mentioned on several occasions. Later in the > Spring I'll be teaching a one day class about cold frames, and would > be interested in members experiences - when you started, how it's > built, what you grow. I want students to know that there are numerous > people out there who use these handy adjuncts to gardening in a > diversity of ways for growing many different plants. Since this is > possibly somewhat off-topic, anyone who wants to share information is > welcome to e-mail me directly. I prefer to respond openly so if someone thinks I'm nuts, they can say so. Some observations drawn from my own experience: 1. Glass is better than any plastic for the cover because it is more transparent to start with, does not darken or go opaque, and doesn't go brittle with age. 2. Don't make the frames too deep, otherwise your bulbs are at the bottom of a box and will reach for the light. The ideal is a coldframe that has transparent walls as well as the cover. 3. Make sure the cover can be opened slightly for ventilation. 4. Only shut cover down completely during really cold weather. 5. The ideal is a frame over a sand bed so pots can be plunged. 6. Make all your frames the same size so covers are interchangeable. (This may conflict if point 1 drives you to use old windows for covers.) 7. A common construction technique has planks stacked on edge to make the surround. The planks must be tied together vertically. Put the vertical elements *outside*, not *inside*. 8. Square pots pack more tightly than round pots. 9. Make sure the cover has a slope to throw off rain. 10. Make sure the cover is strong enough so it won't collapse under a heavy snow load. 11. Make screen covers for use during spring, summer, and fall to keep flying pests out. This advice particularly applies if you are growing amaryllidaceous bulbs and your area is infested with narcissus flies. 12. Pay attention to sun and shade when you site. Middle eastern bulbs want lots of summer sun, but woodlanders want summer shade. 13. If you use wood, be sure to paint with a good wood preservative. You will need to repeat the application every few years. 14. Wood coldframes have the advantage over masonry ones that you can pick them up and move them if you want to. 15. Here in the Pacific Northwest, the primary purpose of coldframes is to keep the rain off during the winter. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island From jglatt@hughes.net Wed Jan 30 23:13:47 2008 Message-Id: <47A14AF0.3080406@hughes.net> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: Tulips on Journey North Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:13:36 -0500 This is a great site for bird migration and the phenomenology of Spring. Including tulips springing into growth. http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tulip/index.html Judy in New Jersey where sunshine and strong winds today did shake the darling buds still sealed up tight against winter's cold From othonna@gmail.com Wed Jan 30 23:57:34 2008 Message-Id: <8e8da5260801302057n675fc033w71041359f4ddba89@mail.gmail.com> From: Hannon Subject: NPK ratios? Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:57:31 -0800 I agree with Jim about phosphorus often seeming excessive in many formulations. I can't think of many soils in nature that would be especially high in P and arid climate soils especially are often very low in it. Perhaps something like 5-3-15 or 5-5-10 would be suitable for many bulbs. But it is often difficult to locate sources for unorthodox ratios once one moves away from 20-20-20 and the like. Dylan On Jan 30, 2008 2:53 PM, J.E. Shields wrote: > Diana and all, > > I agree with Diana --- my understanding from 30 years ago is that ammonium > nitrogen is absorbed under all conditions relatively poorly by plant > roots, > compared to nitrate. On the other hand, ammonium is the preferred form of > nitrogen for all fungi and many bacteria. Len Doran drove this point home > to those of us whom he undertook to coach: Ammonium feeds the pathogens > trying to kill your bulb, nitrate feeds the plant! > > In Narcissus poeticus (Vickery et al, 1946, cited in Rees) they found that > the plant tissue analyzed as follows: > > Bulbs grown on nitrate as source of nitrogen, 15.9 g N per 50 bulbs > Bulbs grown on ammonium as source of nitrogen, 14.0 g per 50 bulbs. > > My bibles, (post Doran), have been > > "The Growth of Bulbs" by A. R. Rees, pub. by Academic Press, New York & > London, 1972 > and > "The Physiology of Flower Bubls" by A. de Hertogh and M. Le Nard, pub. by > Elsevier, Amsterdam & New York, 1993 > > The point made by Doran was the same as that made by Rees: Bulbs need > nutrients in the approximate ratio the nutrients occur in the healthy bulb > tissue. Plants are also limited by any nutrient that is present in > significantly less than needed levels. Unfortunately, only Gladiolus, > Lilium, and Tulipa have been studied in detail. As a general thing, the > ratio of N, P, and K in plant tissue is about 4 N to 0.3 P to 2 K. The > precise ratios can vary not only from genus to genus but from cultivar to > cultivar. > > The question of the effects of nutrient ratios on efficiency of absorption > is not resolved so far as I can recall -- or my knowledge may be decades > out of date. I am not aware the N, P, and K affect each others absorption > rates. > > Mg (magnesium), Ca (calcium) and K (potassium) are similar in ionic charge > (Mg and Ca) and in size (Ca and K) and are said to be able to interfere > with each other's absorption. This alone might indicate that applying > calcium at a different time than magnesium would increase the > effectiveness > of the applied nutrients. > > Loading the fertilizer up with phosphate is relatively harmless in > soilless > growth medium. In soil, excess phosphate can tie up iron, calcium, and > probably a couple of the trace elements, depending on the ambient soil > pH. Phosphate is of course essential for plant growth, but in > significantly smaller amounts that N and K. I've never understood where > people are coming from when they recommend high phosphate fertilizers; > this > just does not make physiological sense to me. > > Jim Shields > in cold central Indiana (USA) > > > At 01:12 PM 1/30/2008 -0800, you wrote: > >It is also my understanding that nitrate nitrogen, in the form of > potassium > >nitrate or calcium nitrate, is better absorbed at lower temperatures, so > >this is important for those bulbs that grow during the winter. The > >formulation I use has both ammonium nitrite and potassium nitrate, but > the > >main ingredient is potassium nitrate. > > > >Diana > >Telos Rare Bulbs > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From contact@bulbargence.com Thu Jan 31 02:48:09 2008 Message-Id: From: "contact" Subject: packing bulbs for shipping Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 08:46:57 +0100 Dear all, I find this a most interesting topic as I am faced with the problem every day. Under our packing tables we have the choice of nets, paperbags, plastic bags, and filling (or protection) material; saw dust, woodchippings, peat, potting soil, sphagnum, polystyrene. I try to be systematic, in general we have the following rules: Dry dormant bulbs: paper bags or nets, no filling material) Freshly lifted bulbs with fleshy roots (amaryllidacea), cyclamen, alstroemeria, agapanthus: thin plastic bag in paperbag filled with slightly humid peat or sphagnum Delicate tubers etc (Glorisosa, Bletilla, Dahlia) paperbag with dry woodchippings The use of plastic bags must be controlled carefully; as a period too long or bulbs too humid may lead to rotting. An excellent example of packing were the Crinums sent to us by Tony Avent. The bulbs with fresh roots were wrapped in sphagnum and damp newspaper. Roots remained intact and are still there three months after planting. (In many cases the fleshy roots disappear during the months after planting) The choice depends invariably on the genus, time of lifting prior to shipping, length of shipping period. Many times it is intuition which guides. Kind greetings Lauw de Jager, France www.bulbargence.com I find that almost invariably where I err in the storage of bulbs is in keeping them too moist. Woodland corydalis, for example -- which usually arrive from overseas packed in a moistened medium -- actually do better for me packed in a dry medium in plastic bags, which keeps them plump but discourages rooting. The same with most frits and erythroniums. On the other hand, as long as green tissue is not an issue, most bare-root geophytes will keep quite well even if moist and in root. I have separated masses of erythroniums that have formed veritable rootballs within their plastic packing, all the while fearing that I was doing near-lethal harm. But they just shrugged it off From tom@evolution-plants.com Thu Jan 31 05:26:09 2008 Message-Id: <00AA62F3-51A5-48FB-84F5-AF511AC92BF4@evolution-plants.com> From: Tom Mitchell Subject: Tips on Brodiaea cultivation Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:22:37 +0000 I've been trying for the first time this year to grow from seed several Brodiaea species, alongside a number of other bulbs from the Western USA. I'm happy to report that quite a lot of seed has germinated but I'm uncertain what to do next. Others have told me that I shouldn't attempt to prick out bulbs grown from seed until their second season, at least. I'm also not sure how to treat the seedlings when they go dormant in terms of water provision. Does anyone on this forum have opinions or advice that they'd be prepared to share with this total novice? You can email me directly at tom@evolution-plants.com or reply on this forum if you think others might be interested. From jamievande@freenet.de Thu Jan 31 05:42:51 2008 Message-Id: <47A1A622.3060601@freenet.de> From: "JamieV." Subject: NPK ratios? Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:42:42 +0100 Jim, Hannon, most phosphorus is supplied in nature as animal wastes (guano is high in PO4) and will typically not be readable as a major component of most soils. It simply is removed very quickly and does not easily combine with other soil elements. Nitrogen can combine with calcium rather well and remain stored. Not that I think that it is overly important in the ratio, just that its very nature is quite different than nitrogen or potassium. As to its importance, it is further down the line of nutrients, but is very neccessary for all plant developement. Jim mentioned that ammonias are not taken up directly by plants, which is quite true. Ammonia (NH4, that is nitrogen with 4 hydrogen atoms attached) is first converted to NO2 via bacteria. This is the first step of nitrification. Plants are still incapable of using this compound. It is further brocken down to NO3 via other bacteria and then is available to plants as their main energy source. The total equation runs something like this: 2NH4 + 2OH + 3O2 > 2H+ + 2NO2- from which the H (hydrogen) evaporates/recombines leaving 2NO2- + O2 > 2NO3 , with nitrate as the end product. The process is understood, but the actual bacteria are still not 100% confirmed. It may be various types in various environments, as this is a fundimental process found in all organic systems. As to ratios in general, I believe one must consider what they wish to achieve and how they plan on doing that. A plant in a container is not really a very natural thing. The potting mixes, other than providing nutrients and a specific type of substrate for the plant, also provide a specific type of environment for other life forms. A classic case is with potted orchids. When they are planted in pine bark they require 3 times the nitrogen as when they are planted in a non reactive medium. The bacteria found in pine bark take up nitrogen to degrade the bark at an enourmous rate! The catch is, when the bark is finally digested by the bacteria, the nitrogen is once again available, often burning the roots of the plant! A reason why repotting is an important issue in general. It is not just a case of providing new material for the plant, rather a complete exchange to remove dangerous wastes, as well. As bulbs are largely resting plants, with only a handful being quasi evergreen, they are storage oriented. This would indicate a larger requirement of PO4, which, assumedly in nature, is provided by animal droppings diluted and transported via the seasonal rains. Although I am not certain, it is possible that these same rains dissolve potassium (K+) from the soil. I take it this reaction will largely hang from the soil type. Something that lit a little light in my head was Jim's mention that bacteria are a general enemy of bulbs. Of course, this is generalized, as there are beneficial bacteria involved, it's just dependant on the view point! Could feeding ammonia based fertilizers exacerbate the bacterial problems? Clearly, the plants cannot profit directly from ammonias, rather require a converted form (nitrates) to process. This would tend to say that, especially for potted plants in a closed environment, that urea is a poor nutrient! It is ammonia and must first be assimilated by bacteria before the plants can profit from it. In the open garden this may not be a problem, but in a pot, it could simply feed the bacterias and damage the plant. Just a few thoughts, by the way, I always choose a lower nitrogen fertilizer, such as a 14-9-15 (+2Mg +Tr) time release (8 month), but that is only low in relation to the potassium! I use this with all my potted plants. -- Jamie V. _______________________ Köln (Cologne) Germany Zone 8 jamievande@freenet.de From jamievande@freenet.de Thu Jan 31 06:06:38 2008 Message-Id: <47A1ABB9.2090607@freenet.de> From: "JamieV." Subject: NPK ratios? Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:06:33 +0100 Jim, this is an important point you mentioned with Ca, Mg and K competing for free ions to combine. They do, but, as you wrote, the reaction is largely governed by pH. Applying these elements at different times would be the wisest solution, otherwise they may not be effective. The same can be said of phosphates, but they will precipitate with Ca+ at higher pH, say around 7.2 or higher. I do not know at which pH it combines with other elements. Again, with phosphor compounds, they have a wide range of 'users' in bio-systems. All plants require them, which may mean that in a pot there are more takers to consider than the main plant. Algaes are huge absorbers of PO4. Perhaps we have a situation similar to nitrogen in orchid bark? Just some more thoughts, > Mg (magnesium), Ca (calcium) and K (potassium) are similar in ionic charge > (Mg and Ca) and in size (Ca and K) and are said to be able to interfere > with each other's absorption. This alone might indicate that applying > calcium at a different time than magnesium would increase the effectiveness > of the applied nutrients. > > Loading the fertilizer up with phosphate is relatively harmless in soilless > growth medium. In soil, excess phosphate can tie up iron, calcium, and > probably a couple of the trace elements, depending on the ambient soil > pH. Phosphate is of course essential for plant growth, but in > significantly smaller amounts that N and K. I've never understood where > people are coming from when they recommend high phosphate fertilizers; this > just does not make physiological sense to me. > > Jim Shields > in cold central Indiana (USA) > > > -- Jamie V. _______________________ Köln (Cologne) Germany Zone 8 jamievande@freenet.de From jshields@indy.net Thu Jan 31 09:09:58 2008 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080131082726.027eaeb0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: NPK ratios? Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:09:04 -0500 Hi Jamie and all, We can rely on Jamie to bring up some thought-provoking ideas! The point at which Ca, K, and Mg compete, regardless of soil pH, is in the absorption receptors on the surface of the root hairs. These receptors are large proteins that extend through the cell membrane and have a pore in the center that leads from outside the cell to inside the cell. Here is where these three ions (ion = atom with electric charge) can interfere with each other, again because of similarities in size or electric charge. They have to pass through that pore to get from outside the plant to inside the plant. A point that is often made in regard to hydroponic culture -- and growing in soilless medium with continuous liquid feeding is much like hydroponics -- plants only absorb the nutrients they need and can use. The rest they ignore. That is why I said excess phosphate (PO4 with negative charge) is relatively harmless. Natural soils can contain a variety of constituents that interact chemically with plant nutrients. Clays can adsorb ions on their surfaces and can absorb ions internally. Add calcium to clay and the fine structure of the clay changes, leading to a gross change in the texture of the clay -- from gooey when loaded with K (potassium) to grainy and crumbly when loaded with Ca (calcium). Phosphate can, if I recall this correctly, adsorb onto the surface of clays. These adsorbed phosphate ions can then bind Fe (iron) and Ca (calcium) ionically (that is, as salts). Calcium and iron phosphates are quite insoluble at certain pH values. This in fact is the mechanism by which phosphate can deplete the available iron in a soil. An element must be soluble, as an ion in solution, for a plant to be able to take it up. Soils also contain lignins and lignic acids that can bind cations (positive ions like Ca, Mg, and K). These lignins are ion exchange agents, the cationic bindings are readily reversible, and lignic acid bound K (potassium) is a dynamic reservoir for K in soils. Excess rain can indeed leach the nutrients like Ca, K , and NO3 out of the topsoil and carry them away in the groundwater. In soilless media, as in true hydroponics, there is little in the way of commensal flora to assist the plants by processing nutrients from unavailable forms (e.g., ammonium, NH4 ions) to forms that the plants can physically absorb (i.e., nitrate, NO3 ions). We use soilless media because it also provides little support for pathogenic flora. My potting medium for bulbs is generally a mixture of Promix BX biofungicide (i.e., with commensal bacteria that eat fungi) + sand + granite chick starter grit in a ratio of about 2 : 1 : 1 by volume. This is my "gritty mix." I fertilize continuously from February through September (in the greenhouse) with Jack's Professional Peat Lite, a 20-10-20 with 2/3 N as nitrate (I'd prefer 100% as nitrate!) and most micronutrients, including some Fe. I inject it into the irrigation water to a final concentration of 100 ppm nitrogen (100 milligrams of N per liter). I'd also drop the P (as phosphate) to 5% if I had my 'druthers. Jack's Pro does contain a little iron, but not enough. I have to interrupt feeding once or twice a year and inject chelated iron for one cycle, to keep the plants from becoming a bit chlorotic. We grow arid land bulbs in greenhouses in the American Midwest. We are fighting climate, seasons, and latitude. It's about as unnatural a situation as you can get and want exotic bulbs to survive. Jim Shields in central Indiana (USA) where we are waiting for another winter storm to make up its mind At 12:06 PM 1/31/2008 +0100, you wrote: >Jim, > >this is an important point you mentioned with Ca, Mg and K competing for >free ions to combine. They do, but, as you wrote, the reaction is >largely governed by pH. Applying these elements at different times >would be the wisest solution, otherwise they may not be effective. > >The same can be said of phosphates, but they will precipitate with Ca+ >at higher pH, say around 7.2 or higher. I do not know at which pH it >combines with other elements. > >Again, with phosphor compounds, they have a wide range of 'users' in >bio-systems. All plants require them, which may mean that in a pot >there are more takers to consider than the main plant. Algaes are huge >absorbers of PO4. Perhaps we have a situation similar to nitrogen in >orchid bark? > >Just some more thoughts, > >-- >Jamie V. ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA From kelly@irvincentral.com Thu Jan 31 09:48:46 2008 Message-Id: <47A1DFC2.90909@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: packing bulbs for shipping Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 08:48:34 -0600 Hello, Lauw. I usually mimic my suppliers for dormant bulbs. In all cases, I use paper bags, because in most cases there's at least sawdust. Certain items come having been put in slightly moistened milled peat or sawdust, and they are in a plastic bag inside of a paper bag. This does sometimes cause problems related to mold. I've been learning with much of these, it helps to refrigerate them if they will not be shipped off immediately. All my nursery items either remain in their potting medium, even up to a short gallon with my Clivia, or are placed in plastic bags with moistened coarse sphagnum. If in foliage the foliage is usually trimmed for transport, and of course remains outside of the bag. Although this gives the customer something a bit messy to deal with, I believe it has worked out very well in reducing shock. Why let Lycoris roots dry out and easily loose a season recovering, anyway? I also pack my product so that it cannot move around in transport. I just can't see the benefit of flower bulbs bouncing around every time the package is dropped. This does mean zero air circulation, but I always use 2-3 day priority mail and have had no serious problems in that regard. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b mailto:kelly@irvincentral.com http://www.irvincentral.com/ contact wrote: > Dear all, > I find this a most interesting topic as I am faced with the problem every day. From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Thu Jan 31 16:59:29 2008 Message-Id: <000701c86454$73c3c760$0200a8c0@2CVEVE1> From: "Brian Whyer" Subject: Corms from seed Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:58:45 -0000 The recent email on Brodiaea and earlier on cyclamen from seed, prompts me to mention an article in the current RHS Garden magazine, titled "From seed to seed in 20 weeks". Surprisingly, for me, this is an article on growing Gladiolus, in effect as annuals. Gladiolus dalenii is mentioned but carneus also suggested. I was aware of Freesias being grown this way but not Gladiolus. With John Grimshaw reminding us that cyclamen (hederifolium?) can be pushed to flower in 1 year, and then gladiolus in less than 20 weeks, I wonder what else. Is brodiaea a candidate. The article suggests other possible corms, but is it only corms and not bulbs? The gladiolus they sow liberally in 10 litre pots, half filled with peat/bark/grit and the seed sown on the top half of seed compost in March. Then germinating, hardening off, feeding, planting out and flowering, 16 weeks later. Collecting your next years seed in August. The Gladiolus viridiflorus that I sowed from AGS seed at the end of December is already over 2" tall; maybe I should start feeding gently, and drop the small pot into a much larger pot. Anyone know a recipe for surplus Gladiolus corms? Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 PS There is also a well illustrated article by John on the smaller daffodils in the same magazine. From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Jan 31 17:53:49 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Corms from seed Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:53:28 -0800 I've had Cyclamen coum in flower 8 months from sowing, without fussing or fertilizing. A friend sows Alstroemeria hybrids in January and has them flowering in gallon pots that summer. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers From nsterman@plantsoup.com Thu Jan 31 19:28:29 2008 Message-Id: <4EB2DA18-ED07-4F35-8E4F-6D5BAC5ED901@PlantSoup.Com> From: N Sterman Subject: cyclamen in So Cal Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:28:17 -0800 Lovely image, John... Do you recall where you purchased your cyclamen? Nan On Jan 24, 2008, at 10:10 PM, John Longanecker wrote: > > My father, a retired nurseryman, had a bed of self- perpetuating > common pink ornamental cyclamen growing in full sun on the east > side of his house in Pismo Beach, which I realize is a lot cooler > than Encinitas, even though coastal. They quickly declined after > his death, probably eaten by the hoards of snails and slugs on the > coast or other insects such as the equally common earwigs in Pismo > Beach. Here in Placerville, I grow the fall blooming species > cyclamen which thrives in the summer drought and is not bothered by > the occasional winter hard freeze, in spite of being leafed out in > its growing phase. > John Longanecker > Placerville, Ca > Zone 7 banana belt; 2240' > >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _________________________________________________________________ > Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®- > get your "fix". > http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Thu Jan 31 19:56:54 2008 Message-Id: <000c01c8646b$f38fb960$20ad4c42@DJ9SK221> From: "Diana Chapman" Subject: Corms from seed Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:46:58 -0800 I have been growing virtually all the Brodiaea species from seed for about fifteen years, and I have never had any bloom in less than a year. In fact, most seem to take about three years from seed, in spite of regular fertilization. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs . > With John Grimshaw reminding us that cyclamen (hederifolium?) can be > pushed > to flower in 1 year, and then gladiolus in less than 20 weeks, I wonder > what > else. Is brodiaea a candidate. The article suggests other possible corms, > but is it only corms and not bulbs? From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu Jan 31 19:55:03 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20080131165458.01700250@pop.earthlink.net> From: Jane McGary Subject: Tips on Brodiaea cultivation Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:59:05 -0800 Tom asked about how soon to move seedling Brodiaea bulbs out of the seed pots and how long to keep them watered. On watering, I water them until the leaves start to wither, then I put them in the shade, covering the flat of seed pots to prevent excessive drying. In late summer I tip them out and transplant the bulbs, which can be recognized at this stage if you haven't used a soil mix that has confusing-looking particles, into larger containers, which I plunge in sand in a bulb frame. Most Brodiaeas are pretty large plants and benefit from occasional applications of soluble fertilizer, diluted to about half the strength recommended for annuals. Another tip about the Themidaceae in general is that they get larger and flower more abundantly if the bulbs are planted quite deeply. Jane McGary Northwestern Oregon, USA Still snowy, but melting fast under pelting rain and sleet. From rherold@yahoo.com Thu Jan 31 20:34:35 2008 Message-Id: <47A27728.2040408@yahoo.com> From: Roy Herold Subject: Corms from seed Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:34:32 -0500 I had Ipheion uniflorum 'Album' flower from seed in less than a year--something like ten months. This made me very, very glad that I don't live in a climate where Ipheion thrive outdoors. I can't say I've had any other bulb that was so precocious, although like John G I have seen C. hederifolium (and/or coum) do its trick in a rather short time if it's happy. I've never gone through the replanting routine, however, before a year in the pot. --Roy NW of Boston Still hasn't dropped below zero F this winter. Zone 7 here we come. From msittner@mcn.org Thu Jan 31 21:03:40 2008 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20080131174153.02ed0ad8@mail.mcn.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Quick bloom from seed Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:03:15 -0800 Hi, We had a discussion early in this list about plants that could be grown from flower to seed in a year or less. I think that Diane Whitehead was keeping track. It seemed that having a long growing season helped and a lot of light. One of our Western Australian members (no longer on this list) had great success and we assumed that her greater light might have been a factor although perhaps it was skill as well. The Gladiolus example was started in March when the daylight hours would be longer. Was the intent just to bloom them once and then toss them or was there any information about how they did in later years? Gladiolus carneus is a winter growing species. Like Diana I'd be surprised in Brodiaea could be flowered in a year, but then if Gladiolus can be who knows. The Gladiolus I have started this year from seed are such tiny things that I can't imagine potting them up yet. But I've noticed that some species bloom much more quickly from seed than others. And we are having a rather dark winter this year. What is it now, 19 or 20 days in a row that it has rained? Since I have adopted John G.'s advice on growing Lilium my plants are growing lots faster however and I've been really pleased with his suggestion. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2004-June/018365.html I've had quick blooms from some species of Cyclamen, but not all. I got a Tigridia to bloom from seed in a year's time, but never was able to replicate it and in fact rarely can get it to bloom again for me so think it was just a freak lucky accident. Mary Sue From voltaire@islandnet.com Thu Jan 31 21:15:55 2008 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Quick bloom from seed Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:15:36 -0800 I had an Alstroemeria from that arid strip of Chile which roared into growth and flower as soon as it tasted water. Died fast, too. Diane Whitehead From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu Jan 31 21:20:33 2008 Message-Id: <000001c86479$43645b50$2f01a8c0@Library> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Quick bloom from seed Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:22:14 -0500 The literature reports that Lilium longiflorum can be raised from seed to bloom in eight months - and those are old reports. Modern growers might have speeded it up even more. As mentioned, L. formosanum is also quick from seed, some blooming within a year. In old reports, Lilium pumilum and Tigridia were said to give about 25% bloom the first season under best conditions. Garden glads are also known to give a percentage of bloom the first season from seed. Iris dichotoma sometimes blooms the first year from seed. These examples are just off the top of my head - doubtless there are many more. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org From odysseybulbs@earthlink.net Thu Jan 31 21:37:43 2008 Message-Id: From: "Russell Stafford, Odyssey Bulbs" Subject: Quick bloom from seed Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:37:40 -0500 Freesia laxa is one that comes immediately to mind. Russell Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106