IXIOLIRION. I don't how much, if at all, the following will be of help or interest but we grow Ixiolirion here and have doen so on the same piece of ground for nine years. There simply is not the labour to go around a ten acres botanic garden to allow or consider moving or lifting bulbs etc on an annual basis. They either get on with it themsleves, or not. it isn't possible to moly coddle anything here. Essentially I suspect the over riding significance attached to their survival and natural expansion, [slowly] is the fact that [a] the grow on a soil which to all intents and purposes is pure sand and gravel, as is the case all over the site, and [b] the precise location has an approxiamte slope of 45 degrees. Therefore good drainage is an absolute given and may well be the most important element in their survival. That said we also get around 75 inches, in old money, of rain which is spread more or else evenly over the whole year, either as snow or the wet stuff. If the soil is porous to say 30-45 cms / 12-18 inches on top of glaciated granite gravel and rock as well as the added benefit of some sort of slope then I see no reason why this species should not grow unless the summer temperatures are aggressively high but by then they are more or less dormant. We are lucky to see much above 20C at any time and the crude equivalent to the USDA's hardiness zone @ c. 58 degrees north here would be roughly 6 'ish. I hope this helps, & I would sugggest the person who thought he might be over watering during summer & autumn is on the button there. On a different topic, could I ask for some advice on a plant I have here grown from seed donated from your neck of the woods, namely Xerophyllum tenax. We now have some 35 plus plants three years old from seed but this is not a species anyone in Scotland, or it seems in England knows anything about in terms of its cultivation requirments. The plants are now roughly around 15 cms / 6 inches tall. The basic pH is 4.5 to perhaps 5.0 max, the soil is as described above, ditto climate. What do I do next please? It seems hardy having already dealt with - 18 C so far including doing so in 9 cm square pots since pricked out as seedlings. Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: <pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org> To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 6:21 PM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 65, Issue 28 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Ixiolirion (Jim McKenney) > 2. Re: Ixiolirion (Yuri Pirogov) > 3. Re: Bulb requirements - was Ixiolirion (Diane Whitehead) > 4. Hippeastrum parodii (Douglas Westfall) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:17:50 -0400 > From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Ixiolirion > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <000601c8d6df$080e11d0$2f01a8c0@Library> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > > It?s always intriguing to me to hear other gardeners explain their > successes > and failures. Most of us have one or two major circumstances which greatly > influence the bulbs we grow. For me, that major circumstance is too much > water during the period when summer dormant bulbs are ripening. When I was > a > young gardener, I thought the major circumstance was winter hardiness. One > other circumstance for me is acid clay soil: it?s obvious that many bulbs > originate in areas with porous, high calcium soils, usually neutral or > alkaline. > > > > As a result, when I try to explain my successes and failures, my > explanations are apt to be in terms of those three main issues: excess > moisture when the bulbs are ripening, winter hardiness and soil. > > > > For me, one of the real eye-openers which came with participation in this > forum is a new sense of the adaptability of most bulbs: many of the bulbs > I > grow can withstand conditions never realized in my garden. > > > > One thing this has taught me is this: take with a generous grain of salt > reports based on experience in climates different than my own. And with > that > in mind, I try to preface any suggestions I might make with a caveat about > ?under my conditions? or something similar. For instance, Mary Sue has > Brodiaea, Triteleia, Dichelostemma and the like probably coming up in her > grass (do you have any grass, Mary Sue?). Yet she has problems with > Ixiolirion. I on the other hand am just able to squeek by with many of the > Californian plants, and for me they seem to respond best to the sort of > conditions I suspect Ixiolirion needs in my climate. It should surprise no > one that what works for me does not work for Mary Sue and visa versa: > after > all, we?re in different worlds in terms of growing conditions. I mentioned > the uncertainty of Allium caeruleum in the garden in my climate, yet for > Jane McGary it?s a reliable garden plant. I have to jump through hoops to > keep it going (hoops in this case being protection from summer rain). > > > > Reflecting on reports from other parts of the country often leads me to > speculation about the requirements of various plants. In particular, there > are circumstances each of us has, circumstances which influence our > successes and failures, yet circumstances we might not even realize. Soil > temperature is one I?m trying to focus on more and more now. Some plants > require high soil temperatures during dormancy: these are the ones which > are > apt to be poor performers in cool summer areas. Others have certain chill > requirements. It?s interesting to me that horticulture and agriculture in > general seem to have recognized the importance of temperature during > winter > dormancy long before the significance of temperature during summer > dormancy > was recognized. > > > > Another neglected factor is day length. Martagon lilies are evidently > adapted to very long days during their period of above-ground growth. The > gross observation is that they flourish better far north of Maryland. From > that, most observers have concluded that they are cold adapted. But > perhaps > the explanation for their halting growth here in Maryland has to do with > our > comparatively short late-spring, early-summer days (compared, for > instance, > to the day length in Sweden or comparable latitudes in Canada where > martagon > lilies thrive). The day length here begins to shorten after the spring > solstice; but if you go far enough north, days longer than any we ever > experience characterize the summers. > > > > Another thing I?m beginning to wonder about is this: will summer dormant > bulbs which have ripened properly and experienced the proper desiccation > withstand soil moisture in the period between proper ripening and > initiation > of autumnal root growth? Bulbs when dug here are seeming heavy with > moisture. During the first week or two of storage, it?s important for the > storage conditions to allow free evaporation of moisture. Fat juicy summer > dormant bulbs taken from the ground and put directly into zip lock bags > are > apt to turn into a stinking mushy soup before you know it. But once stored > under airy conditions and properly ripened, are they more tolerant of > moist > warm conditions? That?s something I mean to find out. And has anyone > noticed > that the largest bulbs of tulips are the ones most likely to rot? > > > > I?ve wandered far from the Ixiolirion issue, and have not mentioned one of > the cardinal rules I try to observe when puzzling out why things die: make > a > point of determining exactly when the plant in question died. If we plant > a > bulb in the autumn, see it bloom in the spring, and then don?t think about > it until it does not reappear the following year, that leaves a lot of > time > and changing circumstances unaccounted for. > > > > The hypothesis I?m proposing is that Ixiolirion is dying in June: it > would > not surprise me to find that the bulbs are rotting as the plants bloom. I > dug some from my garden (in the garden, not in a raised or protected bed) > a > few weeks ago and found some rotters (and some sound bulbs). Next year > they > are going into a raised bed under cover. And I think Mary Sue is on to > something with her speculation about a need for winter cold. Some bulbs > stored dry and cool during the winter here grew when planted in the > spring > but gave a very poor harvest. > > > > Jim McKenney > > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA > zone > 7 > > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/ > > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > > > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/ > > > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:34:45 +0400 > From: "Yuri Pirogov" <jukp@aha.ru> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Ixiolirion > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <004e01c8d6e1$61b1d850$0401a8c0@LocalHost> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Dutch grown Ixiolirion have bad reputation here too. So I did not expect > too > much when I collected them among other things in Central Asia two years > ago. > Nevertheless, it is still alive after two winters and it gave me good > blooms > this spring. Interesting, two clones have very different bloom time. First > one bloomed in late May, second one bloomed after mid June when first one > has almost ripe seeds. I must say, the past summer was very hot and dry. > I'm not sure it needs good drainage because it is very widespread in the > nature and is really a weed on the plains and fields. > > Yuri Pirogov > near Moscow, Russia > zone 3 or 4 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:59:44 -0700 > From: Diane Whitehead <voltaire@islandnet.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Bulb requirements - was Ixiolirion > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <DF49C614-CEB3-45C9-996E-51B561F0EC09@islandnet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; > delsp=yes > > Jim McKenney's message of June 25 is a wide-ranging discussion of bulb > requirements in different areas. > > I think it may be missed by anyone skipping the Ixiolirion messages, > so I would like to draw attention to it. > I have included just a few snippets, but the whole message is well > worth reading. > > Diane Whitehead > > > On 25-Jun-08, at 9:17 AM, Jim McKenney wrote: > >> It?s always intriguing to me to hear other gardeners explain their >> successes >> and failures. Most of us have one or two major circumstances which >> greatly >> influence the bulbs we grow. >> > .......... >> >> One thing this has taught me is this: take with a generous grain of >> salt >> reports based on experience in climates different than my own. > ........ >> >> ... each of us has circumstances which influence our >> successes and failures, yet circumstances we might not even realize. >> Soil >> temperature is one ......... >> >> Another neglected factor is day length. ....... > >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:01:33 -0700 > From: Douglas Westfall <eagle85@flash.net> > Subject: [pbs] Hippeastrum parodii > To: IBSMEMBERS@yahoogroups.com, Pacific Bulb Society > <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <BF554C79-85B4-4CA4-B857-B1CF10BAF1A1@flash.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Question to Hippeastrum "specialists" (at least any who grow > Hippeastrum parodii). > > At this point in the season, all of my Hippeastrums have finished > blooming (except Hippeastrum parodii). > > Now I know that H. aulicum blooms in late Winter/early Spring, but is > it "normal" for Hippeastrum parodii to be sending up a flower spike > here in late June? I have never had it bloom before. > > Doug > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 65, Issue 28 > ***********************************