ITALICS

iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org info@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org
Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:53:55 PDT
David this is exactly the problem I had on reading your first worthy effort 
which clearly, along with this try, has been mangled during the routing via 
different computers / programmes which is why I took some care to be, 
possible on reflection,overly laboured with mine just sent off ahead of 
yours incoming.

Iain
----- Original Message ----- 
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To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 6:21 PM
Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 18


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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: to italicize or not to italicize... (David Ehrlich)
>   2. Re: to italicize or not to italicize...(final attempt)
>      (David Ehrlich)
>   3. Re: to italicize or not to italicize... (Jim McKenney)
>   4. Re: to italicize or not to italicize... (Jim McKenney)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:21:41 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Ehrlich <idavide@sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize...
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <184743.54404.qm@web81006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Wow!? I look at the E-mail I sent, and all the italices are gone.? So, 
> also is the multiplcation symbol for the hybrid.? I'll try resendin it 
> using undescores for the italicization -- maybe that'll get through.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: David Ehrlich <idavide@sbcglobal.net>
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:58:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize...
>
> My bible on Plant Systematics gives the ICBN recommendations, which are 
> that both the generic and specific epithets should be italicized.? The 
> authority is not italicized.? If you are referring to a variety or 
> subspecies, the ?var.? or ?subsp.? is not italicized, but the following 
> epithet is, e.g.,
> ????????? Lyonia ligustrina (L.) DC. var. filiosiflora (Michx.) Furlow
> ?
> Higher taxa are always capitalized; they are generally italicized by 
> Europeans, but not by Americans.
> ?
> Cultivar names should have a capital initial and either be included in 
> single quotes or preceded by ?cv.?? They are never italicized.
> ?
> Hybrid names are preceded by x, and are italicized.
>
> David Ehrlich
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:34:59 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Ehrlich <idavide@sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize...(final attempt)
> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <139188.91586.qm@web81001.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I'm sure that somewhere along the way, my response has been converted to 
> plain text.? the Italicized wods in my letter were?Lyonia ligustrina and
> filiosiflora.? Also?the x for hybrids is not the letter ex, but a 
> multiplication sign; it?should not have serifs, and it should be centered 
> with the text, not?on the line like an alphabetic letter.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:39:10 -0400
> From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize...
> To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <001001c91751$957ee140$2f01a8c0@Library>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi, Jennifer
>
>
>
> The two responses we've have so far go along way to answering your
> questions; I'll just add a bit more here because the recommendations in 
> the
> earlier responses are those formulated for use in technical or more formal
> publications. I edit the local rock garden chapter?s bulletin, and I 
> wrestle
> with questions of this sort all the time. Our membership includes several
> professional taxonomists who are concerned that anything they publish in 
> our
> bulletin should appear seemly in the event that one of their professional
> colleagues should see it. At the other end of the spectrum, our membership
> includes many gardeners who probably throw away plant labels as soon as 
> they
> get home from the source, and who don?t know the names of most of what 
> they
> grow. I?m known to be a bit of a martinet when it comes to proper labels.
> And I?m perceived as speaking only ?gardener?s Latin?. At a recent meeting 
> I
> used a vernacular name, and several heads turned at once; and one of them
> actually said ?I?ve never heard you use a vernacular name before!?.
>
>
>
> Keep in mind that this is not a matter of right and wrong - it's a matter 
> of
> style. Just as there is no universally accepted authority for the grammar 
> of
> American English, so there is no universally accepted authority for these
> matters.
>
>
>
> And just as the majority of people spend more time and money to be stylish
> in their dress, hair and politics (and how ?bout them Tina Fey glasses!)
> than they do to acquire refined grammatical sensibilities, the majority of
> editors don't want to seem to be a Doofus (take that, spell check!) and 
> bend
> to prevailing practice in these matters.
>
>
>
> Languages change, and our language is changing a lot right now.
>
>
>
> Here's the way I would treat the part of your inquiry which is not 
> directly
> addressed in the responses so far. You wrote
>
>
>
> "He refers to Bearded Iris and Oncocyclus Iris.  Are these considered
> scientific names or common names?  I did not italicize hybrid tulips,
> hyacinths, and crocus - should I have?  Meanwhile, I did italicize Lilium,
> Muscari, and Tigridia.  Right or wrong?"
>
>
>
> I would not capitalize or italicize either word in "Bearded Iris" or
> "Oncocyclus Iris". To my mind they are pseudoscientific common names.
> However, if those terms were in reference to another publication cited in
> the paper at hand where they were capitalized, then follow the format used
> in the other publication.
>
>
>
> The words "tulips" and "hyacinths" are not Latin: they are the plural 
> forms
> of words now commonly accepted as English. The word crocus poses a 
> different
> challenge: there is a perfectly good English word "crocus" which looks 
> just
> like the genus name of the plant in question, Crocus (italicized). Current
> practice in many circles is to regard all genus names as potential English
> names, with the difference that in their English avatar they do not have a
> capitalized initial letter. But watch out here: I would say that our job 
> as
> editors is to understand what the writer means and to convey that meaning.
> Does the writer mean "the genus Crocus" or does the writer mean "crocus" 
> in
> the vernacular sense? Any editorial changes to the writer's usage should
> reflect the writer's intentions, not blind adherence to some preconceived
> "rule".
>
>
>
> If you're doing the writing yourself and are uncomfortable with the
> inclusion of what seems to be the same word used to convey two separate
> meanings, you can emphasize the difference by using the plural of the
> English form: crocuses won't be confused with Crocus (italicized and with 
> a
> capital initial letter).
>
>
>
> If you agree with that and understand it, then that should answer your
> question about "Lilium, Muscari, and Tigridia". In other words, depending 
> on
> what meaning is to be conveyed, those words can be printed in lower case
> letters without italics (and made plural just to avoid any ambiguity) or 
> can
> be printed in italics with a capitalized initial letter (when they are
> shorthand for the full expression "the genus Xus").
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jim McKenney
>
> jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com
>
> Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA 
> zone
> 7
>
> My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/
>
> BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS
>
> Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/
>
>
>
> Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:03:59 -0400
> From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com>
> Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize...
> To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <001801c91755$0e67ea40$2f01a8c0@Library>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Well, David, welcome to email world. I have long regretted the lack of
> italics capability on this forum - it makes discussions such as this one a
> lot more complicated.
>
>
>
> But I'm glad you had this experience:  I wanted to start a discussion of 
> the
> role of italics in print media.
>
>
>
> I've always assumed that the practice of italicizing scientific names is a
> hold over from the old more general practice of italicizing text in a
> foreign language. When I was a kid, it was not unusual to see foreign 
> words
> italicized. The practice has all but died out in my local newspaper, The
> Washington Post. I've complained about this to them, and I've complained
> about the practice of using words and phrases from who-knows-what language
> without explanation of the meaning or the pronunciation.
>
>
>
> The relevance, if any, of all of this to the present thread has to do with
> the treatment of taxa above the rank of genus and species. I've seen a 
> call
> for the italicization of all such taxa. For most of us, that would mean 
> that
> in addition to italicizing the genus and species, we would italicize the
> family name, too (and also italicize the names of orders and so on in the
> unlikely event that we would use them).
>
>
>
> What interests me about this is that the print media in general seem to be
> taking one direction while garden writing seems to be taking another. In
> some samples of my own writing I italicized all taxa: the result was a 
> very
> busy page, like one with too many exclamation points. I can understand why
> newspapers are shying away from the extensive use of italics (and isn't it
> ironic that this is happening when italics are so easily done in word
> processors). But I wish they would give some thought to providing
> definitions and pronunciation guides to these words. Then again, I wish 
> more
> gardening publications would do the same (and not with those phony "as if
> they were English words" pronunciations - I don't need their help in
> pronouncing my own language).
>
>
>
>
>
> Jim McKenney
>
> jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com
>
> Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA 
> zone
> 7
>
> My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/
>
> BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS
>
> Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/
>
>
>
> Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
> End of pbs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 18
> *********************************** 


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