ITALICS

Kelly Irvin kellso@irvincentral.com
Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:05:07 PDT
hmm. I guess not.

Mr. Kelly M. Irvin
10850 Hodge Ln
Gravette, AR 72736
USA																
479-787-9958
USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b

http://www.irvincentral.com/



Kelly Irvin wrote:
> This is a test...
>
> /Lycoris/ /radiata/
>
> /Lycoris radiata/
>
> /So, does this mean we can now post an entire message in italics so as 
> to make it feel more like handwriting, and, therefore, more personal?/
>
> Mr. Kelly M. Irvin
> 10850 Hodge Ln
> Gravette, AR 72736
> USA																
> 479-787-9958
> USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b
>
> http://www.irvincentral.com/
>
>
>
> iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org wrote:
>   
>> David this is exactly the problem I had on reading your first worthy effort 
>> which clearly, along with this try, has been mangled during the routing via 
>> different computers / programmes which is why I took some care to be, 
>> possible on reflection,overly laboured with mine just sent off ahead of 
>> yours incoming.
>>
>> Iain
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: <pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org>
>> To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 6:21 PM
>> Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 18
>>
>>
>>   
>>     
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>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>   1. Re: to italicize or not to italicize... (David Ehrlich)
>>>   2. Re: to italicize or not to italicize...(final attempt)
>>>      (David Ehrlich)
>>>   3. Re: to italicize or not to italicize... (Jim McKenney)
>>>   4. Re: to italicize or not to italicize... (Jim McKenney)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:21:41 -0700 (PDT)
>>> From: David Ehrlich <idavide@sbcglobal.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize...
>>> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
>>> Message-ID: <184743.54404.qm@web81006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>>>
>>> Wow!? I look at the E-mail I sent, and all the italices are gone.? So, 
>>> also is the multiplcation symbol for the hybrid.? I'll try resendin it 
>>> using undescores for the italicization -- maybe that'll get through.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: David Ehrlich <idavide@sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:58:51 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize...
>>>
>>> My bible on Plant Systematics gives the ICBN recommendations, which are 
>>> that both the generic and specific epithets should be italicized.? The 
>>> authority is not italicized.? If you are referring to a variety or 
>>> subspecies, the ?var.? or ?subsp.? is not italicized, but the following 
>>> epithet is, e.g.,
>>> ????????? Lyonia ligustrina (L.) DC. var. filiosiflora (Michx.) Furlow
>>> ?
>>> Higher taxa are always capitalized; they are generally italicized by 
>>> Europeans, but not by Americans.
>>> ?
>>> Cultivar names should have a capital initial and either be included in 
>>> single quotes or preceded by ?cv.?? They are never italicized.
>>> ?
>>> Hybrid names are preceded by x, and are italicized.
>>>
>>> David Ehrlich
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> pbs mailing list
>>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:34:59 -0700 (PDT)
>>> From: David Ehrlich <idavide@sbcglobal.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize...(final attempt)
>>> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
>>> Message-ID: <139188.91586.qm@web81001.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>
>>> I'm sure that somewhere along the way, my response has been converted to 
>>> plain text.? the Italicized wods in my letter were?Lyonia ligustrina and
>>> filiosiflora.? Also?the x for hybrids is not the letter ex, but a 
>>> multiplication sign; it?should not have serifs, and it should be centered 
>>> with the text, not?on the line like an alphabetic letter.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:39:10 -0400
>>> From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize...
>>> To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
>>> Message-ID: <001001c91751$957ee140$2f01a8c0@Library>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> Hi, Jennifer
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The two responses we've have so far go along way to answering your
>>> questions; I'll just add a bit more here because the recommendations in 
>>> the
>>> earlier responses are those formulated for use in technical or more formal
>>> publications. I edit the local rock garden chapter?s bulletin, and I 
>>> wrestle
>>> with questions of this sort all the time. Our membership includes several
>>> professional taxonomists who are concerned that anything they publish in 
>>> our
>>> bulletin should appear seemly in the event that one of their professional
>>> colleagues should see it. At the other end of the spectrum, our membership
>>> includes many gardeners who probably throw away plant labels as soon as 
>>> they
>>> get home from the source, and who don?t know the names of most of what 
>>> they
>>> grow. I?m known to be a bit of a martinet when it comes to proper labels.
>>> And I?m perceived as speaking only ?gardener?s Latin?. At a recent meeting 
>>> I
>>> used a vernacular name, and several heads turned at once; and one of them
>>> actually said ?I?ve never heard you use a vernacular name before!?.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Keep in mind that this is not a matter of right and wrong - it's a matter 
>>> of
>>> style. Just as there is no universally accepted authority for the grammar 
>>> of
>>> American English, so there is no universally accepted authority for these
>>> matters.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And just as the majority of people spend more time and money to be stylish
>>> in their dress, hair and politics (and how ?bout them Tina Fey glasses!)
>>> than they do to acquire refined grammatical sensibilities, the majority of
>>> editors don't want to seem to be a Doofus (take that, spell check!) and 
>>> bend
>>> to prevailing practice in these matters.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Languages change, and our language is changing a lot right now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here's the way I would treat the part of your inquiry which is not 
>>> directly
>>> addressed in the responses so far. You wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "He refers to Bearded Iris and Oncocyclus Iris.  Are these considered
>>> scientific names or common names?  I did not italicize hybrid tulips,
>>> hyacinths, and crocus - should I have?  Meanwhile, I did italicize Lilium,
>>> Muscari, and Tigridia.  Right or wrong?"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would not capitalize or italicize either word in "Bearded Iris" or
>>> "Oncocyclus Iris". To my mind they are pseudoscientific common names.
>>> However, if those terms were in reference to another publication cited in
>>> the paper at hand where they were capitalized, then follow the format used
>>> in the other publication.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The words "tulips" and "hyacinths" are not Latin: they are the plural 
>>> forms
>>> of words now commonly accepted as English. The word crocus poses a 
>>> different
>>> challenge: there is a perfectly good English word "crocus" which looks 
>>> just
>>> like the genus name of the plant in question, Crocus (italicized). Current
>>> practice in many circles is to regard all genus names as potential English
>>> names, with the difference that in their English avatar they do not have a
>>> capitalized initial letter. But watch out here: I would say that our job 
>>> as
>>> editors is to understand what the writer means and to convey that meaning.
>>> Does the writer mean "the genus Crocus" or does the writer mean "crocus" 
>>> in
>>> the vernacular sense? Any editorial changes to the writer's usage should
>>> reflect the writer's intentions, not blind adherence to some preconceived
>>> "rule".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you're doing the writing yourself and are uncomfortable with the
>>> inclusion of what seems to be the same word used to convey two separate
>>> meanings, you can emphasize the difference by using the plural of the
>>> English form: crocuses won't be confused with Crocus (italicized and with 
>>> a
>>> capital initial letter).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you agree with that and understand it, then that should answer your
>>> question about "Lilium, Muscari, and Tigridia". In other words, depending 
>>> on
>>> what meaning is to be conveyed, those words can be printed in lower case
>>> letters without italics (and made plural just to avoid any ambiguity) or 
>>> can
>>> be printed in italics with a capitalized initial letter (when they are
>>> shorthand for the full expression "the genus Xus").
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim McKenney
>>>
>>> jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com
>>>
>>> Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA 
>>> zone
>>> 7
>>>
>>> My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/
>>>
>>> BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS
>>>
>>> Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:03:59 -0400
>>> From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize...
>>> To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
>>> Message-ID: <001801c91755$0e67ea40$2f01a8c0@Library>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> Well, David, welcome to email world. I have long regretted the lack of
>>> italics capability on this forum - it makes discussions such as this one a
>>> lot more complicated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But I'm glad you had this experience:  I wanted to start a discussion of 
>>> the
>>> role of italics in print media.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've always assumed that the practice of italicizing scientific names is a
>>> hold over from the old more general practice of italicizing text in a
>>> foreign language. When I was a kid, it was not unusual to see foreign 
>>> words
>>> italicized. The practice has all but died out in my local newspaper, The
>>> Washington Post. I've complained about this to them, and I've complained
>>> about the practice of using words and phrases from who-knows-what language
>>> without explanation of the meaning or the pronunciation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The relevance, if any, of all of this to the present thread has to do with
>>> the treatment of taxa above the rank of genus and species. I've seen a 
>>> call
>>> for the italicization of all such taxa. For most of us, that would mean 
>>> that
>>> in addition to italicizing the genus and species, we would italicize the
>>> family name, too (and also italicize the names of orders and so on in the
>>> unlikely event that we would use them).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What interests me about this is that the print media in general seem to be
>>> taking one direction while garden writing seems to be taking another. In
>>> some samples of my own writing I italicized all taxa: the result was a 
>>> very
>>> busy page, like one with too many exclamation points. I can understand why
>>> newspapers are shying away from the extensive use of italics (and isn't it
>>> ironic that this is happening when italics are so easily done in word
>>> processors). But I wish they would give some thought to providing
>>> definitions and pronunciation guides to these words. Then again, I wish 
>>> more
>>> gardening publications would do the same (and not with those phony "as if
>>> they were English words" pronunciations - I don't need their help in
>>> pronouncing my own language).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim McKenney
>>>
>>> jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com
>>>
>>> Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA 
>>> zone
>>> 7
>>>
>>> My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/
>>>
>>> BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS
>>>
>>> Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> End of pbs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 18
>>> *********************************** 
>>>     
>>>       
>>   
>>     
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