Jane, Roger, I will just go ahead and pot them up then, and keep them outside. Thanks for the reassurance that both species take longer to germinate than a few months. I usually start with Deno as guide to seed germination conditions, but clearly these need more than the usual 90 days. And speaking of deer--I already know that deer love the leaves in this group; young deer wiped out a patch of Juno iris several years ago. Kathleen