From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Thu Sep 1 11:42:12 2011 Message-Id: From: "jim lykos" Subject: Intergeneric hybrids Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 15:59:40 +1000 Hi John I have experimented with intergeneric crosses between Amarygia/Amaryllis, Crinum sp and Brunsvigia sp. I have found that it is possible to breed Amaricrinum hybrids using 9 Crinum species to date. Some crosses are difficult and in almost all cases the cross is only successful if the Crinum sp. is the pollen parent. - Amarygia (Brunsdonna) that are from F2..F3..F4 generations are the most fertile and some are good seed parents for crosses with Crinums and Brunsvigia's. Crinum x Brunsvigias can set some seed but most of the meager seed produced are small and lack vigour and the seedlings usually die in the first or second seasons. The F1 seedlings from Brunsdonna/Amarygia and Brunsvigia species tend to be infertile and but some can be backcrossed with F2...F4 Amarygia and Amaryllis. I have had on the other hand no success with sibling back crosses of these F1 hybrids. Thus far I have flowered Amarygia x Brunsvigia both ways with B. littoralis, josephinea and marginata - the floral colours are very similar but the floral shapes are dominated by the Brunsvigia species involved. I'm looking forward to trying intergeneric crosses with B. bosmaniae and B. radulosa when they finally flower. Once we have been able to flower genera such as Ammocharis, Hessea, Crossyne and Cybistetes, we should find that most of these will form hybrids with Amarygia/Amaryllis and of course some with Crinum spp. Cheers Jim Blue Mountains Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Floral Architecture" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 2:40 AM Subject: [pbs] Intergeneric hybrids So, I have some of the Brunsdonnas from the PBS distribution years ago. And I have to say, more and more flower each year and amaze me. This year, with inspiration from Ken's photos of his Boopharyllis, I have put pollen from my Boophane onto these plants. And just yesterday for the heck of it, I put pollen from a Crinum moorei on another plant. Do I have any chance of these hybrids taking? Are others making crosses with these 4 genera? Am I just fooling myself that I could get these even bigger and better? I did do crosses with Brunvigia littoralis pollen on them as well. John Ingram in Camarillo, CA, between Santa Barbara and L.A. www.floralarchitecture.com "Your Clivia Connection" New number >>> 805.914.9505 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Thu Sep 1 11:42:16 2011 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Ixiolirion kolpakowskianum Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 10:20:58 +0100 Can anyone tell me anything of the species or form of Ixiolirion kolpakowskianum please? Peter (UK) From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Thu Sep 1 15:12:35 2011 Message-Id: <765E1459425D46348834EA23F1771A55@MarekKomputer> From: Subject: Ixiolirion kolpakowskianum Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 16:02:55 +0200 Hi, There are some Internet pages: on PBS: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/2006-June/014021.html on Flora of China: http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=60630&flora_id=2 (figure) -- " -- : http://flora.huh.harvard.edu/china/PDF/PDF24/ixiolirion.pdf (text) Marek Walnik, Poland -----Oryginalna wiadomość----- From: Peter Taggart Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:20 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Ixiolirion kolpakowskianum Can anyone tell me anything of the species or form of Ixiolirion kolpakowskianum please? Peter (UK) _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Thu Sep 1 15:12:36 2011 Message-Id: <20110901100752.20646@web006.roc2.bluetie.com> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Lycoris in Maryland Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2011 10:07:52 -0400 One of the members of our local rock garden group is a Lycoris enthusiast. He has obtained plants from all of the usual suspects (Chen Yi, Brent & Becky, Tony, Jim Waddick and others) and each year the variety of bloom gets better. He wrote a piece on Lycoris for our current bulletin, and his partner gave me access to their photo archives. I pulled seventeen images to make a little Lycoris gallery for the bulletin. Please take a look here: http://www.pvcnargs.org/lycoris_gallery.htm I supplied the names, and some are based on pure guesswork on my part. If you see something which is egregiously wrong, please let me know! I used an image of Lycoris sprengeri, which I think of as the poor man's Worsleya, as the centerpiece. Did I overdo it with the Lycoris sanguinea images? Maybe, but that color is so unusual in the genus, and this species (which is known to have been grown successfully in Boston, Mass a century ago), has never become common in our gardens. Enjoy, Jim McKenney From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Thu Sep 1 16:12:41 2011 Message-Id: <69F62AE2-B18B-41B9-A42E-4B067F9E7FD2@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Dirk Wallace Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 07:47:04 -0700 sent by Frank M In reference to Dirk Wallace ( R de Boer) I live in Australia and I also on= numerous occasions have attempted to contact Dirk all to no avail I have e= mailed=2C phoned and even sent letters with no response to any of my attem= pts=2C he has an impressive collection of bulbs that he has displayed via = a web site with attachments to buy and when you try it all leads to a dead = end there are numerous persons here in Australia that have also tried but a= gain to no avail. Kind Regards Frank Sydney From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Thu Sep 1 16:57:38 2011 Message-Id: <20031.641ae373.3b910402@aol.com> From: Jtlehmann@aol.com Subject: What is blooming Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 11:51:30 -0400 (EDT) Last week I traveled to north-central Minnesota. On my way northward, I stopped for lunch in Clear Lake, Iowa. Under the town's welcome sign, there was Lycoris squamigera still in bloom, but starting to fade. It was a surprise that it was still in bloom and so far north. It has obviously been in-ground for a few years due to the clump size. --Jerry Lehmann Olathe, KS, USA From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Thu Sep 1 17:27:38 2011 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Lycoris in Maryland & KC Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 11:10:00 -0500 One of the members of our local rock garden group is a Lycoris enthusiast. He has obtained plants from all of the usual suspects (Chen Yi, Brent & Becky, Tony, Jim Waddick and others) and each year the variety of bloom gets better. Please take a look here: http://www.pvcnargs.org/lycoris_gallery.htm Dear Jim Mc, Nice pix. Only one seems 'iffy' that's your L. straminea. Just can't see it close enough to confirm ID. Other wise all good guesses Here's some pix taken this season in my garden - all pix are in vaguely chronological order. https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2275619248540.130648.1190461654&l=de82aedb7d&type=1 You do not need to be a member to look at this public link. All are named. Nos 54 and 55 are a very interesting hybrid that looks like a late blooming sibling to L. squamigera. Very subdued, but quite nice. As I mentioned earlier here's juts a few of the L. caldwellii going strong now at the end. Still Lycoris season in KC. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Thu Sep 1 17:42:38 2011 Message-Id: From: Tony Avent Subject: Lycoris in Maryland & KC Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 12:29:12 -0400 Jim: I've been thinking about your orange hybrid...how about L. sanguinea x L. chinensis instead of L. incarnata. I've can't find anyone who could get L. incarnata to set seed or who found the pollen any good. Whatever it is, it's darn nice. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James Waddick Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 12:10 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Lycoris in Maryland & KC One of the members of our local rock garden group is a Lycoris enthusiast. He has obtained plants from all of the usual suspects (Chen Yi, Brent & Becky, Tony, Jim Waddick and others) and each year the variety of bloom gets better. Please take a look here: http://www.pvcnargs.org/lycoris_gallery.htm Dear Jim Mc, Nice pix. Only one seems 'iffy' that's your L. straminea. Just can't see it close enough to confirm ID. Other wise all good guesses Here's some pix taken this season in my garden - all pix are in vaguely chronological order. https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2275619248540.130648.1190461654&l=de82aedb7d&type=1 You do not need to be a member to look at this public link. All are named. Nos 54 and 55 are a very interesting hybrid that looks like a late blooming sibling to L. squamigera. Very subdued, but quite nice. As I mentioned earlier here's juts a few of the L. caldwellii going strong now at the end. Still Lycoris season in KC. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Thu Sep 1 17:42:39 2011 Message-Id: <91EB2633-71E6-4169-9F6F-8A1E7A566536@willapabay.org> From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: Lycoris in Maryland Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 09:40:41 -0700 All I can say is: I want all of them! This is gorgeous, Jim. Thanks very much for taking the time to put this page together. Kathleen PNW Coast, zone 8, mild wet winters, dry summers On Sep 1, 2011, at 9:01 AM, pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > Lycoris in Maryland From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:38:51 2011 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Dirk Wallace Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 17:02:12 +0000 I have been in contaact with Dirkus this year nd he said he was relaunching his nursery. Later on someone somewhere mentioned a health problem. > From: voltaire@islandnet.com > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 07:47:04 -0700 > Subject: [pbs] re Dirk Wallace > > sent by Frank M > > In reference to Dirk Wallace ( R de Boer) I live in Australia and I > also on= > numerous occasions have attempted to contact Dirk all to no avail I > have e= > mailed=2C phoned and even sent letters with no response to any of my > attem= > pts=2C he has an impressive collection of bulbs that he has displayed > via = > a web site with attachments to buy and when you try it all leads to a > dead = > end there are numerous persons here in Australia that have also tried > but a= > gain to no avail. > Kind Regards > Frank > Sydney > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:38:53 2011 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Ixiolirion kolpakowskianum Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 20:02:06 +0100 Thanks Marek, this was very helpfull Peter (UK) On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 3:02 PM, wrote: > Hi, > There are some Internet pages: > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:38:58 2011 Message-Id: <4E5FEA91.2060908@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2011 08:26:57 +1200 What zoning will these little bulbs grow in? Would my 9b-10 zoning be too warm for them? Do they need to be dry during dormancy? Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand, where it is lovely spring weather at the moment and the Daffodils are looking wonderful. From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:00 2011 Message-Id: <4BEC42FC9D39435997E4276BBE8BD9A1@MarekKomputer> From: Subject: Ixiolirion kolpakowskianum Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 22:33:44 +0200 Hi, I have found a little bit of information on Ixiolirion kolpakowskianum on Internet in Polish, Czech and Russian. Bulbs small, up to 1,5 cm in diameter, resambling those of tulips in shape. Plant grows to 30 - 40 cm. Flowers 2 - 4 on a scape, white or violet. Flowering time Mai to June. Requires protection against frost in winter. The plant comes from Turkmenistan, from 1500 m elevations. Marek Walnik (PL) http://mwalnik.wodip.opole.pl/botanika/amaryllidaceae.html -----Oryginalna wiadomość----- From: Peter Taggart Subject: [pbs] Ixiolirion kolpakowskianum Can anyone tell me anything of the species or form of Ixiolirion kolpakowskianum please? Peter (UK) _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:04 2011 Message-Id: From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 06:49:28 +1000 Hi Ina, I cant vouch for your warmer climate but they certainly dont mind being wet through dormancy in my climate. Cheers, Rob in Tasmania now moved to http://www.bulbsbirdsnmore.com.au/Amaryllid_Obsession/Tecophilia.html From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:01 2011 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Ixiolirion kolpakowskianum Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 21:54:33 +0100 Thank you again Marek! I had not realised that Turkmenistan was so mild in winter. It expains why other bulbs from there suffer from very cold spells in winter here. Peter (UK) On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 9:33 PM, wrote: I have found a little bit of information on Ixiolirion kolpakowskianum > Flowering time Mai to June. Requires protection against frost in winter. > The plant comes from Turkmenistan, from 1500 m elevations. > > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:01 2011 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 21:01:57 +0000 Ina, they come from a zone 8 in the wild, but you can grow them by giving them afternoon shade while in growth and keeping them in pots when dry dormant ( that is, full sun until say 2 p. m. and from then on NO direct sunshine). The first summer is the most critical when the tiny corms can be easily dessicated by heat. From then on they are comparatively not difficult. The corms bury themselves deep. > Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 08:26:57 +1200 > From: klazina1@gmail.com > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [pbs] re Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus > > What zoning will these little bulbs grow in? Would my 9b-10 zoning be > too warm for them? Do they need to be dry during dormancy? > > Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand, where it is lovely spring weather > at the moment and the Daffodils are looking wonderful. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:02 2011 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 14:25:57 -0700 Ina, Tecophilea cyanocrocus is likely to be doubtful in your extremely mild winter conditions. Nevertheless, if I lived in Auckland, I would certainly try. There is another species, T. violiflora that comes from lower altitudes and closer to the coast. It should certainly succeed for you. I am aware of at least one grower in Los Angeles who has done very well with these bulbs. However, the region where they are grown is in the San Gabriel Valley, which gets sharp frosts most winters even though the days are quite warm, probably warmer than yours, at that time of year. These temperature zones were set up for winter cold hardiness, which is not the issue here. I think the daily range in temperature is more relevant and the one that might be more difficult for your conditions to provide, particularly the cooler nights. In spite of all this, the risk is worth it! These bulbs really love lots of water in the cool growing season. In summer they should be drier but you do not need to let them go totally dry. They do very well in Ireland, where summer conditions are certainly not of the mediterranean type! Andrew What zoning will these little bulbs grow in? Would my 9b-10 zoning be too warm for them? Do they need to be dry during dormancy? Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand, where it is lovely spring weather at the moment and the Daffodils are looking wonderful. From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:02 2011 Message-Id: <50835049-CA8D-4E52-902E-F998FE5AD3AA@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 14:30:29 -0700 On Sep 1, 2011, at 1:26 PM, Ina Crossley wrote: > What zoning will these little bulbs grow in? Would my 9b-10 zoning be > too warm for them? Do they need to be dry during dormancy? As Alberto says, T. cyanocrocus come from a high enough altitude in the Chilean Andes that they could probably be considered USDA Zone 8. (Has anyone seen a good USDA Zone map of Chile and/or Argentina?) However, I grow them in my USDA zone 10a southern California climate at 350 m altitude and they literally grow like weeds for me. I treat them very similarly to my South African Western Cape bulbs, keeping them dry and shaded during the summer and letting our winter rains fall on them naturally, which brings them out of dormancy in the autumn and in good growth through the winter. I'm not sure of the correlation, but it seems that in winters when we get too many dry warmer than average days they don't seem to bloom in nearly the profusion they do when we have long cool winters. Bill Dijk, who lives somewhere near you, seems to be able to get them to bloom amazingly prolifically. I grow them in a very well draining mix with lots of "rocky" material in the mix (coarse sand, pumice, crushed lava rock, crushed granite). However, even in years when they don't bloom as much as I'd like, the leaves still grow healthy and I get quite a few offsets. It makes me wonder why they are so expensive. I don't know if others have found this to be the case, but the var. leichtlinii is much more vigorous and blooms more profusely than either of the other two var.'s. It also produces more offsets as well. I've heard it suggested that it is the main species type and the other two are the varieties of it. BTW, Osmani Baullosa of Santiago, Chile just posted photos of his Tecophilaea cyanocrocuses blooming, on Facebook. Other than the rediscovered ones growing in the wild somewhere, these might be the first ones blooming in captivity in their native land in a long time. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a Latitude 34°N, Altitude 1150 ft/350 m From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:03 2011 Message-Id: <4E6001BB.70709@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2011 10:05:47 +1200 Thanks Alberto, that is helpful, I have the perfect spot for them. And also thanks to the other helpful comments too. Ina On 2/09/2011 9:01 a.m., Alberto Castillo wrote: > they come from a zone 8 in the wild, but you can grow them by giving them afternoon shade while in growth and keeping them in pots when dry dormant ( that is, full sun until say 2 p. m. and from then on NO direct sunshine). The first summer is the most critical when the tiny corms can be easily dessicated by heat. From then on they are comparatively not difficult. The corms bury themselves deep. From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:03 2011 Message-Id: <1AD6278B7CCD420E88EC1B46DAE27377@greg32d9eee6c2> From: "Greg Ruckert" Subject: Dirk Wallace Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 07:41:12 +0930 Dirk lives, he is a friend on Facebook. Greg Ruckert Nairne, South Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alberto Castillo" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 2:32 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] re Dirk Wallace > > I have been in contaact with Dirkus this year nd he said he was > relaunching his nursery. Later on someone somewhere mentioned a health > problem. > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:07 2011 Message-Id: <20110902042222.DD944E94BA@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Whats blooming week of Aug 29 2011 Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2011 20:50:13 -0700 Hi, I finally took a trip around the garden to note what was blooming in the ground or pots in coastal Northern California. Still in bloom are Zantedeschia 'Blaze', Eucomis bicolor, Eucomis comosa, a hybrid tuberous Begonia, Milla biflora, Scadoxus membraneceus, Acis autumnalis, the Oxalis sp. from Uli and Ecuador, Cyrtanthus elatus x montanus, and Cyclamen hederifolium. I now have a Cyclamen cilicum pot in bloom and a Cyclamen coum (I know it it is unusual for this time of the year.) Another strange one in bloom is Delphinium nudicaule. Most of my Delphiniums are still dormant. New to last week or this are Acis rosea, Cyrtanthus mackenii, and Cyrtanthus sanguineus. I'm very excited about the latter after seeing it in the wild and after many years of waiting for the smaller bulbs not devastated by the Narcissus bulb fly to get big enough to flower. Blooming for the first time probably because I gave it one more year or it was going to the BX is Schizocarphus nervosa. It isn't nearly as lovely as I remember seeing it in the Eastern Cape, but maybe it will get better over time. My first fall blooming Oxalis opened this week, Oxalis MV 4674 which resembles Oxalis commutata I think. And also appearing is Colchicum × agrippinum and the first flower of a cultivar Amaryllis belladonna. The species have been in bloom up and down the coast where I live for weeks now. I have a lot of non blooming ones in my too shady garden, but there are a couple that get enough sun to bloom. Dietes grandiflora has been in bloom for awhile. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:07 2011 Message-Id: From: Max Withers Subject: Northern California meeting Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 22:37:13 -0700 I too wanted to offer my belated thanks to Nhu and Jacob for organizing the meeting. It was wonderful to "meet" so many of you, however briefly, and I look forward to future meetings when I am not so rushed. Best, Max Withers Oakland CA From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:42 2011 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Whats blooming week of Aug 29 2011 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 15:43:09 -0500 >I finally took a trip around the garden to note >what was blooming in the ground or pots in >coastal Northern California. Dear Mary Sue and all, How interesting that in our distant gardens we share a single blooming bulb: some Cyrtanthus elatus x montanus or similar hybrid. I don't recall where my bulbs came from , they might have originated form you via the BX years ago. I have a large pot with bright scarlet re-orange flowers. It is decorating the deck right now. Otherwise nothing to compare. I did find a single bloom on Cyclamen purpurescens (from Ellen years ago). What a diversity of bulb interests. Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:42 2011 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 15:46:26 -0500 > It makes me wonder why they are so expensive. Dear Lee, I've wondered that to. I understand that when happy they are quite prolific and produce numerous off sets. I think Bill Dijk used to remark about this too. I have tried them all here before, but my climatic extremes have failed. Very lovely in any form. I'm sure Dell would welcome your excess off sets as would PBS members. Best Jim -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:43 2011 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Scoliopus hallii Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 08:56:04 +0200 Just back from Holland with a truckload bulbs Bulb-season starts madness here Thanks all for the addresses I gave them to my client and he was happy with them If there is someone someday with a few seeds I would love to try to grow them myself Roland 2011/8/31 Brian Whyer > There are currently 6 UK suppliers, according to the RHS Plant Finder, > although you should check with the nurseries direct. > http://apps.rhs.org.uk/rhsplantfinder/pfregions.asp?ID=16893 > Not sure where my seedlings are either. > > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:45 2011 Message-Id: From: "Marek Walnik" Subject: What's the amaryllid Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 12:27:47 +0200 On one of Czech pages in my IE bookmarks I’ve found a new entry - some unidentified bulb, the author thinks is a Brunsvigia bosmaniae, but he’s not sure. What do you think about it: http://www.zelenelisty.cz/clanky/werbar---cibuloviny/brunsvigia-bosmaniae---prvni-premie-v-behu-na-dlouhou-trat.html ? (Pictures on the bottom of the page show flowers in full bloom). Marek Walnik (PL) _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:45 2011 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 12:51:37 +0000 Jim, because the whole original population was dug and taken to Holland. From then on there was no chances for alternative pricing. Only one supplier, only one price. But, now they are a lot more widespread thanks to skilled and generous growers. It has been offered through our own BX. Seeds are quite large and germination in fresh seed is excellent. From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:46 2011 Message-Id: From: Matt Mattus Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 11:40:28 -0400 I've been wondering this year why Tecophilaea are more affordable than in past years. Many Dutch bulb distributors and retailers are offering Tecophilaea for prices that I have never seen before ( Brent & Becky's: $6.50 per bulb; Paul Christian: £6 each), still costly unless you purchase in volumes of 50 as I did, then they are less than $5 per bulb. This lead me to believe that they someone is micropropagating them now, does anyone know? Last year, bulbs were $12-18US$, 2 years ago, $25 each, and the year before that. Although still costly, they are trending down lower than ever before. I can't imaging Dutch growers selling them for less due to demand from consumers being so low, anyway. Also, some mass retailers listed them at hardy to zone 3, which I thought was funny. Matt Mattus Worcester, MA. On 9/3/11 8:51 AM, "Alberto Castillo" wrote: > > Jim, because the whole original population was dug and taken to Holland. From > then on there was no chances for alternative pricing. Only one supplier, only > one price. > > But, now they are a lot more widespread thanks to skilled and generous > growers. It has been offered through our own BX. Seeds are quite large and > germination in fresh seed is excellent. > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:46 2011 Message-Id: From: Joshua Young Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 11:54:36 -0400 I've been waiting for these little gems to become available via PBS for quite some time due to high prices, their color is unimaginable when describing! It seems like quite a few grow them and well! I've read past articles about them producing a copious amount of seed, has anyone tried to grow them from seed successfully? Josh From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:49 2011 Message-Id: <4E6252E3.7020008@suddenlink.net> From: Diana Chapman Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 09:16:35 -0700 I really have to weigh in here. I have been growing Tecophilaea for many years, and they usually produce one or two tiny offsets per mature bulb which will take several years to mature. They also do not produce 'copious' seed. In my greenhouses, I have to hand pollinate and get very little seed set. I have tried various growing media and growing conditions in the hope of being able to produce more bulbs, but nothing has made any significant difference.. My seed germinates at about 50%. There is a reason they have been expensive. They reproduce slowly, they are very rare, and, most importantly, there is only a tiny market for these bulbs. If the Dutch are growing them in quantity now, I actually doubt that this will last, since the market just isn't there. I have seen other desirable bulbs come and go from Dutch suppliers, so I would jump on it now and buy some. To produce a bulb for $5 or less you have to sell a lot, or it isn't worth the effort. This might be a very short term offer. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:47 2011 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 17:37:51 +0100 Ten years ago the price for a Tecophillea corm, in the UK, was £7.00. The price has been sreadily dropping and last year I saw it on Alpine Garden Society events Trade stands for £4.00. The plant is becoming more widely grown and the rarity value is dropping whether or not anyone is 'micropropping' it. I doubt it is hardy at Zone 7 but it can withstand the corm freezing (I don't reccomend this) Peter (UK) On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Matt Mattus wrote: > I've been wondering this year why Tecophilaea are more affordable than in > past years. > > This lead me to believe that they someone is micropropagating them now, > does > anyone know ? > > Also, some mass retailers listed them at hardy to zone 3, which I thought > was funny. > > Matt Mattus > Worcester, MA > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:49 2011 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 09:55:15 -0700 At 01:46 PM 9/2/2011, you wrote: > > It makes me wonder why they are so expensive. They're so expensive because (a) they don't produce "numerous" offsets -- I would say two offsets per bulb in a year is the most I've seen here -- but mostly because they are written about in horticultural literature in such a way as to weave a mystique around the species, so growers can charge whatever they want for them. (Cf. Galanthus reginae-olgae.) The flowers are very lovely, especially the selections that are nearly all blue, and anyone who sees them at a show wants them immediately (so immediately that I've been tempted to tie down a pot with a bicycle lock). The best way to increase Tecophilaea cyanocrocus, I believe, is by seed. Seedlings can flower in the third year. Joshua wrote that he had read they produce "a copious amount of seed," but this is misleading: few capsules contain more than 9 seeds. SOmeone wrote that "subsp. leichtlinii" increases faster than the "typical" (mostly blue) form, but I haven't found that to be so. Moreover, from descriptions of the rediscovered wild populations, it seems that the white-centered "leichtlinii" is likely to be just representative of the normal range of color variation, and in fact is said to be the more common in naturally occurring populations. I suspect that gardeners selected out the dark blue forms, which are more striking. My plants, which stem from three bulbs bought around 1990, have gone through many periods of temperatures around 20 F in cold frames and now in a mesh-sided bulb house. I've also grown pots of the species in a frost-free solarium, but they did not flower well there and became etiolated. They seem to flower best and appear most in character when grown "hard." The description of the wild habitat published several years ago in the Chilean botanical journal Gayana reminded me of the habitats of deciduous Lewisia species in the North American West: dirt and scree slopes, very moist in spring from snowmelt and dry in summer. In fact, I enjoy growing Lewisia oppositifolia and L. brachycalyx next to Tecophilaea; they flower at the same time and are beautiful together. Another pretty combination is with the deep yellow Fritillaria pudica. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:50 2011 Message-Id: <1315070348.90412.YahooMailNeo@web29301.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Antigoni Rentzeperis Subject: Σχετ: Whats blooming week of Aug 29 2011 Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 18:19:08 +0100 (BST) Hello all,   Hedychium coronarium is blooming now. The scent reminds very much a Gardenia. http://s1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb341/anti25/?action=view¤t=DSCN8275.jpg   http://s1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb341/anti25/?action=view¤t=DSCN8296.jpg   http://s1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb341/anti25/?action=view¤t=DSCN8333.jpg   Greetings from Gythio, Greece,   Antigoni   Απο: James Waddick Προς: Pacific Bulb Society Στάλθηκε: 11:43 μ.μ. Παρασκευή, 2 Σεπτεμβρίου 2011 Θεμα: Re: [pbs] Whats blooming week of Aug 29 2011 >I finally took a trip around the garden to note >what was blooming in the ground or pots in >coastal Northern California. Dear Mary Sue and all,     How interesting that in our distant gardens we share a single blooming bulb:  some Cyrtanthus elatus x montanus or similar hybrid. I don't recall where my bulbs came from , they might have originated form you via the BX years ago. I have a large pot with bright scarlet re-orange flowers. It is decorating the deck right now.     Otherwise nothing to compare. I did find a single bloom on Cyclamen purpurescens (from Ellen years ago).     What a diversity of bulb interests.         Thanks        Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph.    816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F     Summer 100F + _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 19:39:50 2011 Message-Id: <002201cc6a5e$a56d1000$f0473000$@com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Tecophilaea cyanocrocus Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 10:26:40 -0700 Josh wrote: >> I've read past articles about them producing a copious amount of seed, has anyone tried to grow them from seed successfully? Yes, it is indeed easy. When the flowers are open, take a tiny paintbrush, shove it down into the flower, and twirl it around. This accomplishes pollination. The seeds sprout easily under standard mediterranean climate gardening conditions. Snails and slugs love them, so you need to bait (at least at my house). I had these for years and they reproduced nicely. Unfortunately, they also seem to want to be repotted pretty regularly. I neglected to do that for a few years and lost them. Matt, thanks for the comment about low prices. I thought they still cost over $20. I'm going to order me some today. Mike San Jose, CA (zone 9, min temp 20F / -7C) From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sat Sep 3 21:23:44 2011 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: Whats blooming week of Sept 2 2011 Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 13:17:16 -0700 Greetings, Cool summer is Berkeley continues. First, there's the expected: Haemanthus coccineus blooming on my new bulb bed: http://www.anexaminedlife.net/bulbs/haemcocc.jpg Second a very unexpected bloom: I got this Boophone haemanthoides from South Africa early this year. The Bay Are's mild temps let me give it a short, late "winter" and it is just now going dormant. While I was moving the bulb pot, I noticed this: http://www.anexaminedlife.net/bulbs/boohaem.jpg Anyone have late season Boophone haemahthoides pollen? -| From: steven hart Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 03:46:03 -0700 Hi Alberto, I cant imagine how anyone could justify taking something so beautiful from its native environment, unless it was its last chance of survival. What an earth were those Netherlanders thinking..... I have never seen these little sapphires before & i was wondering if any sustainable population survived in the wild, once the original population was removed ? Steven On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 5:51 AM, Alberto Castillo wrote: But, now they are a lot more widespread thanks to skilled and generous growers. It has been offered through our own BX. Seeds are quite large and germination in fresh seed is excellent. _ From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sun Sep 4 12:46:22 2011 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 13:36:05 +0200 Was it a Dutch who collected the bulbs or where they just sold to a Dutch company Roland 2011/9/4 steven hart > Hi Alberto, I cant imagine how anyone could justify taking something so > beautiful from its native environment, unless it was its last chance of > survival. What an earth were those Netherlanders thinking..... I have never > seen these little sapphires before & i was wondering if any sustainable > population survived in the wild, once the original population was removed ? > Steven > On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 5:51 AM, Alberto Castillo > wrote: But, now they are a lot more > widespread thanks to skilled and > generous growers. It has been offered through our own BX. Seeds are quite > large and germination in fresh seed is excellent. > > > > _ > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sun Sep 4 14:31:26 2011 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 13:29:36 +0000 > Hi Alberto, I cant imagine how anyone could justify taking something so > beautiful from its native environment, unless it was its last chance of > survival. What an earth were those Netherlanders thinking..... I have never > seen these little sapphires before & i was wondering if any sustainable > population survived in the wild, once the original population was removed ? Steve, not even justifiable if it were THE DUTCH'S last chance of survival. The whole population was plundered and it became extinct in the wild. Amazingly another population was found in recent years higher in the mountains but the location is locked under seven keys. I wonder why. For those interested in the subject, in more recent times, countless millions of Cyclamens, Galanthus and Sternbergia were dug in Turkey to be taken to Holland and whence sold to the four corners of Europe until an investigation by Fauna and Flora Preservation Society unveiled this in 1989. The irony is that the survival rate of those wild plants was very low. They were bought from the poor peasants in bulk for cents. From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sun Sep 4 19:15:56 2011 Message-Id: <000001cc6b2d$52b27830$f8176890$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 284 Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 14:06:07 -0400 Dear All,        The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared.   If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 284" in the subject line.         Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/ share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS.     Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org ....          If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact me for instructions before sending seeds.             I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Mark Brown: 1. Seeds of Fritillaria persica ‘Ivory Bells’  “I only grow this one, so there is a high probability that it will come true.” From Pam Slate: 2. Seeds of Habranthus magnoi 3. Seeds of Habranthus brachyandrus 4. Seedling corms of Herbertia lahue ex BX 240, Shawn Pollard From Brian Whyer: 5. Seed of Scilla madeirensis 6. Seed of Albuca juncifolia 7. Seed of Fritillaria persica ex ‘Ivory Bells’ From Monica Swartz: 8. Bulbs of Lachenalia bachmanii 9. Small bulbs of Lachenalia liliflora 10. Small bulbs of Oxalis glabra 11. Seed of Manfreda virginica 12. Seed of Manfreda maculosa ex LBJ Wildflower Center From Terry Laskiewicz: 13. Bulbs of Watsonia humilis, pink dwarf, 12 – 15 inches 14. Bulbs of Fritillaria messanensis 15. Bulbs of Fritillaria erhartii From Jim Shields: 16. Seeds of Haemanthus humilis humilis (all pink flowered) Thank you, Mark, Pam, Brian, Monica, Terry, and Jim !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sun Sep 4 19:15:57 2011 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 11:12:41 -0700 At 03:46 AM 9/4/2011, you wrote: >Hi Alberto, I cant imagine how anyone could justify taking something so >beautiful from its native environment, unless it was its last chance of >survival. What an earth were those Netherlanders thinking..... I have never >seen these little sapphires before & i was wondering if any sustainable >population survived in the wild, once the original population was removed ? First, as I mentioned in an earlier post, at least two native populations have been discovered recently in the wild. The exact locations are not being disclosed by the botanists who found them, for obvious reasons.. Second, although it is true that some Tecophilaea cyanocrocus were taken to Europe, John Watson (as always) had something memorable to say about that, to the effect that the apparent extinction of the species was more likely caused by overgrazing than by "spade-wielding peasants in the pay of villainous Dutchmen." If you have been to the former habitat of this species, you will know that much of the land is now covered mostly by vegetation that is either thorny or poisonous or both, almost everything else having been devoured by the thousands of goats kept there by rural people who maintain them largely for cheese production. (Fortunately for our interests, the showy amaryllids of the area are poisonous.) The introduction of Old World livestock into the Americas is surely the cause of a large proportion of the plant extinctions that have occurred there, not to mention violent and rapid changes in plant communities and subsequent effects on the fauna. Something similar happened in the Old World millennia ago when pastoralism took hold. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sun Sep 4 19:45:58 2011 Message-Id: <1315161661.56480.YahooMailClassic@web80404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: What's blooming now - week of Sept 3, 2011 Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 11:41:01 -0700 (PDT) I was visiting the LA County Arboretum (Arcadia, CA) and the Huntington Botanical Gardens (San Marino, near Pasadena, CA) this weekend and encountered the following bulbs in bloom:   Drimia (Urginea) maritima:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112887453/in/photostream   Amaryllis belladonna and hybrids:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112804681/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112747439/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6113292514/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112830195/in/photostream   Callostemma purpurea:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112718349/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6113262396/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6113261238/in/photostream/   Lycoris aurea (?) :   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112803447/in/photostream/    Haemanthus coccineus:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6113432362/in/photostream/   and not blooming, but in full growth, Ammocharis coranica:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112889565/in/photostream   And many other non-geophytes of horticultural interest !   Ken Blackford San Diego     From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Sun Sep 4 23:16:01 2011 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 22:09:47 +0000 I overlooked it, so probably they were saving the triliions of cyclamens, galanthi and sternbergia from extinction. Same with the 40,000 bulbs of Hippeastrum argentinum taken in the 1940s. Global benefactors. From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:00 2011 Message-Id: <201109042217.p84MHBbu004492@xsmtp1.es.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 15:18:31 -0700 Well said Jane. Harold At 11:12 AM 9/4/2011, you wrote: >At 03:46 AM 9/4/2011, you wrote: > >Hi Alberto, I cant imagine how anyone could justify taking something so > >beautiful from its native environment, unless it was its last chance of > >survival. What an earth were those Netherlanders thinking..... I have never > >seen these little sapphires before & i was wondering if any sustainable > >population survived in the wild, once the original population was removed ? > > >First, as I mentioned in an earlier post, at least two native >populations have been discovered recently in the wild. The exact >locations are not being disclosed by the botanists who found them, >for obvious reasons.. > >Second, although it is true that some Tecophilaea cyanocrocus were >taken to Europe, John Watson (as always) had something memorable to >say about that, to the effect that the apparent extinction of the >species was more likely caused by overgrazing than by "spade-wielding >peasants in the pay of villainous Dutchmen." If you have been to the >former habitat of this species, you will know that much of the land >is now covered mostly by vegetation that is either thorny or >poisonous or both, almost everything else having been devoured by the >thousands of goats kept there by rural people who maintain them >largely for cheese production. (Fortunately for our interests, the >showy amaryllids of the area are poisonous.) > >The introduction of Old World livestock into the Americas is surely >the cause of a large proportion of the plant extinctions that have >occurred there, not to mention violent and rapid changes in plant >communities and subsequent effects on the fauna. Something similar >happened in the Old World millennia ago when pastoralism took hold. > >Jane McGary >Portland, Oregon, USA > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:10:59 2011 Message-Id: <201109042222.p84MMe8c004756@xsmtp1.es.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 15:24:01 -0700 Actually Alberto: The case was probably somewhat exaggerated. At the time they were concerned about Cyc. mirabile and claimed that was on the verge of extinction but it was not. And not trillions of bulbs. However, I agree with you that it is better to produce the bulbs in cultivation rather than rip them out of the wild. Harold At 03:09 PM 9/4/2011, you wrote: >I overlooked it, so probably they were saving the triliions of >cyclamens, galanthi and sternbergia from extinction. Same with the >40,000 bulbs of Hippeastrum argentinum taken in the 1940s. Global benefactors. > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:01 2011 Message-Id: <4E63A2B2.15442.538A@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 16:09:22 -0700 On 3 Sep 2011, at 9:55, Jane McGary wrote: > The description of the wild habitat published several years ago in > the Chilean botanical journal Gayana reminded me of the habitats of > deciduous Lewisia species in the North American West: dirt and scree > slopes, very moist in spring from snowmelt and dry in summer. In > fact, I enjoy growing Lewisia oppositifolia and L. brachycalyx next > to Tecophilaea; they flower at the same time and are beautiful > together. Another pretty combination is with the deep yellow > Fritillaria pudica. Would it be fair, then, to describe tecophilaea as a snowmelt species? I ask because to my small mind, snowmelt species are quite difficult to grow in captivity, but tecophliaea is reasonably easy to grow. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:02 2011 Message-Id: <4E63A2B2.1823.539E@localhost> From: totototo@telus.net Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 16:09:22 -0700 On 4 Sep 2011, at 13:29, Alberto Castillo wrote: > > > Hi Alberto, I cant imagine how anyone could justify taking something so > > beautiful from its native environment, unless it was its last chance of > > survival. What an earth were those Netherlanders thinking..... I have never > > seen these little sapphires before & i was wondering if any sustainable > > population survived in the wild, once the original population was removed ? > > Steve, not even justifiable if it were THE DUTCH'S last chance of survival. > The whole population was plundered and it became extinct in the wild. > Amazingly another population was found in recent years higher in the > mountains but the location is locked under seven keys. I wonder why. For > those interested in the subject, in more recent times, countless millions of > Cyclamens, Galanthus and Sternbergia were dug in Turkey to be taken to > Holland and whence sold to the four corners of Europe until an investigation > by Fauna and Flora Preservation Society unveiled this in 1989. The irony is > that the survival rate of those wild plants was very low. They were bought > from the poor peasants in bulk for cents. Carl Purdy's collectors are notorious for having effectively eradicating various Californian bulb species from many of their sites. I believe it was Wayne Roderick who pointed this out in an article in "Pacific Horticulture", leading to a nasty public dispute with Purdy's family. To compound this splendid example of environmental devastation in pursuit of filthy lucre, many of Purdy's bulbs were distributed as premiums in boxes of breakfast cereal. It takes little imagination to envision what the survival rate was. The Dutch bulb trade has long been noted for its utter lack of ethics, and plundering of wild bulbs is not the only sin. The horticultural literature is sprinkled with complaints about mislabelled bulbs from Holland, a problem that continues to this day. I've noted that where, crocuses are concerned, one can sometimes detect the imposters in the dry state because their tunics are of the wrong kind. But I have noted that the substitutions are evidently deliberate, not due to customers mixing up loose bulbs in garden centres. If you buy a crocus that is blue or purple, you will get a crocus of about the right color, but it may be C. tommasinianus if there was a crop failure or demand has outstripped supply. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:03 2011 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 16:53:55 -0700 Thank you Alberto, Absolutely fascinating, I'm a passionate ecologist at heart, I believe every species on Earth deserves its place in nature. I live in nature my self, by choice & built my house with my own two hands, am as self sufficient as i can possibly be, because i love nature & i walk bare foot in the forest when i am in the places other eyes have never seen so i don't damage anything, my life feels so fulfilled with my toes against mother natures heart... I wish there was someone with enough seed to start a native regeneration program with Chili. I always dreamed of doing work like that one day.....Has PBS ever been involved in any regeneration programs for any species ????? Its would be a wonderful way to apply for funding & it could become great advertising too ! Steven Qld Australia On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 6:29 AM, Alberto Castillo wrote: > Hi Alberto, I cant imagine From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:02 2011 Message-Id: <6EE5D4E8EEB3415CBAC60E8AFDE1C92D@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: What's blooming now - week of Sept 3, 2011 Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 16:53:59 -0700 Ken, I was surprised to see your shot of Urginea maritima in bloom in September at the Huntington. They finished bloom here in early July. Andrew San Diego From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Ken I was visiting the LA County Arboretum (Arcadia, CA) and the Huntington Botanical Gardens (San Marino, near Pasadena, CA) this weekend and encountered the following bulbs in bloom:   Drimia (Urginea) maritima:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112887453/in/photostream   Amaryllis belladonna and hybrids:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112804681/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112747439/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6113292514/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112830195/in/photostream   Callostemma purpurea:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112718349/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6113262396/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6113261238/in/photostream/   Lycoris aurea (?) :   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112803447/in/photostream/    Haemanthus coccineus:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6113432362/in/photostream/   and not blooming, but in full growth, Ammocharis coranica:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112889565/in/photostream   And many other non-geophytes of horticultural interest !   Ken Blackford San Diego From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:04 2011 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 23:55:12 +0000 Harold, you were present, along with Peter Goldblatt, Brian Mathew, Martyn Rix, Alan, Fred Meyer, Adrian, Chuck Hardman and scores of others when Mike Read and Faith Thompson Campbell unmasked the frantic Cyclamen plundering in Turkey. You were the Chairman of International Bulb Society in those glory days. The extent of the looting was such that even here in farway Argentina huge hederifolium tubers (dessicated and hopeless) were available for sale. Granted the leaading case was mirabile but the fact that ALL cyclamens are CITES plants for years indicates all species were threatened. Rodger, it was Stan Farwig, in all they were three letters and they appeared in Pacific Horticulture mag in the Readers Letters section. I would strongly recommend reading them to the generation of younger growers. that are so eager to obtain the rarest amaryllids "without asking much". Stan's arguments were demolishing. I don't remember the arguing was nasty, only that it exposed a founding father....... From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:04 2011 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 00:10:03 +0000 Steve, back in the early 1990s a reintroduction program was started with six people from the U. S. and one from France donating seeds. The plants were raised here and the corms sent to Chile to reintroduce in the wild. As with so many other attempts it was a failure as the young seedlings were unable to survive in the wild. A number of other attempts would have probably been successful once the knack was found but there were too many plants to look after here over there. The generosity of those people was fantastic: note that back there T. cyanocrocus was a real rarity and seed was priced and scarce. From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:04 2011 Message-Id: From: Joshua Young Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 20:13:21 -0400 Alberto, I don't think it's just the younger crowd that are eagerly awaiting the presence of the rarer Amaryllids into their collection considering their beauty. I think this is why it's important for many to share their collections to avoid people for searching at whatever cost and it's quite difficult to find many seasoned growers that are willing to offer offsets to places like PBS of incredibly rare species. It's also sad to see others that do offer seed or offsets of rare species for prices in the several hundreds of dollars making them even more unobtainable for many. Luckily there are some who are willing to donate offsets and seed and I honestly think it does take a large amount of stress from wild populations. Josh On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Alberto Castillo wrote: > > Harold, you were present, along with Peter Goldblatt, Brian Mathew, Martyn > Rix, Alan, Fred Meyer, Adrian, Chuck Hardman and scores of others when Mike > Read and Faith Thompson Campbell unmasked the frantic Cyclamen plundering in > Turkey. You were the Chairman of International Bulb Society in those glory > days. > > The extent of the looting was such that even here in farway Argentina huge > hederifolium tubers (dessicated and hopeless) were available for sale. > Granted the leaading case was mirabile but the fact that ALL cyclamens are > CITES plants for years indicates all species were threatened. > > Rodger, it was Stan Farwig, in all they were three letters and they > appeared in Pacific Horticulture mag in the Readers Letters section. I would > strongly recommend reading them to the generation of younger growers. that > are so eager to obtain the rarest amaryllids "without asking much". Stan's > arguments were demolishing. I don't remember the arguing was nasty, only > that it exposed a founding father....... > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:05 2011 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 17:14:38 -0700 Rodger wrote >Would it be fair, then, to describe tecophilaea as a snowmelt species? > >I ask because to my small mind, snowmelt species are quite difficult >to grow in >captivity, but tecophliaea is reasonably easy to grow. The description of the habitat sounds to me like the moisture it gets is from melting snow, but one must consider the elevation where the plants are growing and other climatic factors as well as the mere fact of melting snow. Some common garden bulbs grow in nature just following the snowmelt, such as Crocus sieberi and many tulips. The difficult ones, I think, are those from higher elevations where they have a very long winter dormancy in stable conditions under snow. Nonetheless, I don't grow Tecophilaea in the open garden, though I've heard it has been done in this area (Portland, Oregon), nor do I keep the other plants I mentioned that flower with in in the open. They are all under cover, though not frost-free. Even Fritillaria pudica is iffy in the open garden here, though very common just over into the rain shadow of the Cascade Mountains. Rodger might be able to grow it better if he's in the rain-shadow part of Vancouver Island? Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:06 2011 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: [PBS] Crinum versus the bulldozers........ Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 17:41:35 -0700 This little story is for the crinum lovers out there....... My first ever crinums were saved from a giant dam site when i was young........The Wivenhoe dam, In South East QLD near my home, covered 28km of the upper, fresh water, dry forest reaches of the Brisbane River... Its three times the size of Sydney Harbour... The sandy loam banks were a treasure trove of native crinums, " White" Crinum Flaccidum mostly & C Venosum very small hidden pockets. My original Flaccidum & one Venosum came from being riped from the ground by bulldozers, I used to ride horses & motorcycles through the area some weekends & always loved their pretty 60cm tall highly fragrant flowers & their unusual snaking growth habit. , I didn't even know what a crinum was back then... But i liked the way they grew & couldn't stand to watch them all trying to grow while they baked in the sun, so i decided to save some before they disappeared forever once the dam was flooded... What a wonderful decision i made that day....I panted as many as i possibly could on higher ground where the flooding wouldn't reach & i stuffed a couple of small bulbs down my motorcycle pants & started my crinum collection on the same day...... All the bulldozed forest, crinums and all were crushed into trucks by excavators & removed forever & nobody made any other effort to replant a single bulb but me.....Many of the ones i tried to replant in the bush struggled through several years of sporadic drought winter conditions but some survived, seeded into small groups & i occasionally i see a flower when i visit the area which is so fulfilling, & those first 2 bulbs i stuffed down my motorbike pants, hoping to find out what they were one day, survived & have regenerated into a small happy population at home & i have even placed some seeds back into the wild too to make up for the two originals that have given me joy year after year.......I'll post some photos on the wicki soon, if anyones interested, I just haven't had time to step myself through it yet.... I only know of two other local places where very small groups grow in the wild, as little as 15 plants in family groups, although their range is fairly large, along the east coast of Qld to North NSW they are rarely seen. Steven QLD Australia On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 6:29 AM, Alberto Castillo wrote: > > > Hi Alberto, I cant imagine how anyone could justify taking something so > > beautiful from its native environment, > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:06 2011 Message-Id: <8CE397CBB60C3D1-E0C-47192@webmail-m020.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: [PBS] Crinum versus the bulldozers........ Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 20:48:59 -0400 (EDT) What a wonderful story - and quite a story those plants have behind them now! Now we just need to get some to the States! :) I'd love to see pictures! Best, Jude From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:06 2011 Message-Id: <000301cc6b66$da6fd4a0$8f4f7de0$@net> From: "Richard" Subject: What's blooming now - week of Sept 3, 2011 Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 17:57:58 -0700 I actually have one in bloom here right now! Richard In Vista -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of AW Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 4:54 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] What's blooming now - week of Sept 3, 2011 Ken, I was surprised to see your shot of Urginea maritima in bloom in September at the Huntington. They finished bloom here in early July. Andrew San Diego From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Ken I was visiting the LA County Arboretum (Arcadia, CA) and the Huntington Botanical Gardens (San Marino, near Pasadena, CA) this weekend and encountered the following bulbs in bloom:   Drimia (Urginea) maritima:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112887453/in/photostream   Amaryllis belladonna and hybrids:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112804681/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112747439/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6113292514/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112830195/in/photostream   Callostemma purpurea:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112718349/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6113262396/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6113261238/in/photostream/   Lycoris aurea (?) :   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112803447/in/photostream/    Haemanthus coccineus:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6113432362/in/photostream/   and not blooming, but in full growth, Ammocharis coranica:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6112889565/in/photostream   And many other non-geophytes of horticultural interest !   Ken Blackford San Diego From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:07 2011 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: [PBS] Crinum versus the bulldozers........ Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 01:04:46 +0000 Which species is Crinum venosum? From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:07 2011 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 18:07:23 -0700 Thanks Alberto That is incredible i am so happy attempts were made. Nature can be surprising, perhaps the small numbers will make a comeback given time i hope. It is a true gift those who donated seeds, they must feel very proud to have been part of such an effort. I admire them... Everyone's comments have been absolutely fascinating ! I'm enjoying this learning experience.......... On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 5:10 PM, Alberto Castillo wrote: > > Steve, back in the early 1990s a reintroduction program was started with > six people from the U. S. and one from France donating seeds. The plants > were raised here and the corms sent to Chile to reintroduce in the wild. As > with so many other attempts it was a failure as the young seedlings were > unable to survive in the wild. A number of other attempts would have > probably been successful once the knack was found but there were too many > plants to look after here over there. The generosity of those people was > fantastic: note that back there T. cyanocrocus was a real rarity and seed > was priced and scarce. > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:07 2011 Message-Id: <201109050109.p8519M5S015081@xsmtp1.es.uci.edu> From: Harold Koopowitz Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 18:10:44 -0700 Alberto: I have not forgotten. I was the one who invited Read and Campbell to the meeting in the first place. However, the fact that some plants are on CITES has very little to do with actual levels of threat. It has more to do with "do-gooders" who actually did not really appreciate what they were doing when plant groups were placed on CITES. If you read my book "Orchids and their Conservation" you will understand where I am coming from. Not all species of cyclamen are threatened. Some are very widespread and weedy - take C. graecum for example. This does not mean that some plants are not truly endangered but the species endangered by trade is a minuscule percentage compared to those endangered by other activities. Harold At 04:55 PM 9/4/2011, you wrote: >Harold, you were present, along with Peter Goldblatt, Brian Mathew, >Martyn Rix, Alan, Fred Meyer, Adrian, Chuck Hardman and scores of >others when Mike Read and Faith Thompson Campbell unmasked the >frantic Cyclamen plundering in Turkey. You were the Chairman of >International Bulb Society in those glory days. > >The extent of the looting was such that even here in farway >Argentina huge hederifolium tubers (dessicated and hopeless) were >available for sale. Granted the leaading case was mirabile but the >fact that ALL cyclamens are CITES plants for years indicates all >species were threatened. > >Rodger, it was Stan Farwig, in all they were three letters and they >appeared in Pacific Horticulture mag in the Readers Letters section. >I would strongly recommend reading them to the generation of younger >growers. that are so eager to obtain the rarest amaryllids "without >asking much". Stan's arguments were demolishing. I don't remember >the arguing was nasty, only that it exposed a founding father....... > > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:07 2011 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: [PBS] Crinum versus the bulldozers........ Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 18:52:29 -0700 Thanks Jude thats really sweet. I dont ever see many seeds, only a few per plant make it to maturity. Its the same in the wild...But i will be happy to share with PBS members when they flower & seed :-) They are super tough, this year i experimented with planting seed directly into the garden with 100% success rate, even after being assaulted by goats & dug up by my naughty visiting scrub turkey who insists on making an easy job tough haha...... i'll get to those photos soon as i can. I know a bit about them, so i'll post some info too. I think i might have a couple of species not on the wiki, i'll have to check again. Steven On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 5:48 PM, The Silent Seed wrote: > > What a wonderful story - and quite a story those plants have behind them > now! Now we just need to get some to the States! :) > I'd love to see pictures! > Best, Jude > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:13 2011 Message-Id: <6B07E1F7-1F9E-42F3-AD07-16FA4A0B0AB2@mac.com> From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Crinum venosum Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 12:28:40 +1000 Hi Alberto, > > Which species is Crinum venosum? > It is an Australian species with non-emergent style and very much reduced filaments. http://www.bulbsbirdsnmore.com.au/Amaryllid_Obsession/ Crinum_venosum.html Cheers, Rob in Tasmania From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:07 2011 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: [PBS] Crinum versus the bulldozers........ Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 19:39:52 -0700 Hi Alberto Crinum Venosum is an Australian Native, smaller in stature than many crinums, with a thin leaf. One local South East Queensland discovery was made about, 100km or so west of me, when it was being investigated as a possible Crinum Flacceedum sighting. What a lovely surprise & i bet i'm the only person who ever found them in wivenhoe dam, they were in incredibly thick scrub areas far from any civilization....& really off the beaten track, completely protected by Mount Glorious on one side & cut off by grazing properties on the other. I prefer to keep locations secret because of intense poaching of seeds & bulbs. But now that i'm older i would speak up if i thought populations would ever be disturbed again by development.... It is very similar to its cousin, with beautiful but simple white fragrant flower, not as strong as flacceedum in fragrance. The petals are more rigid sharp to the tip like a double edge dagger, unlike Flacceedum which has quite a good parabolic curvature to outer edge of the petal & a slight back turned more rounded tip. They both flower from the bace & produce occasional offsets at random if they have a happy season. The flower is quite open star shaped & upright, unlike the yellow Crinum F Luteolum from Western Australia, which is slightly more bell shaped. The pollinating parts of Venosum flower are less prominent. Seeds are large & random & never in profusion. Habitat crosses over for Flac & Veno & they could be easily be mistaken to the untrained eye. They have a shorter lass robust leaf than Flaceedum & are slower growing too. Natural habitat is usually dry creek beds in aluveal sandy loam soils but they will tollerate many soils if they have to. Super drought tolerant, but can easily stand good rain too. Super hardy & live in areas that can receive super hot wet summers & very cold but not so long frosted winters. I dont have frost so mine grow almost all year, only becoming dormant for a very short couple of weeks or so sometimes. I will Wiki list these all soon as i can, hope you enjoyed the info.... Steven On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 6:04 PM, Alberto Castillo wrote: > > Which species is Crinum venosum? > > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:07 2011 Message-Id: <1315192450.66404.YahooMailClassic@web80401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: What's blooming now - week of Sept 3, 2011 Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 20:14:10 -0700 (PDT) Hi Andrew ...   my own, too, also finished blooming in early August, so I was also surprised to see them blooming at the Huntington.  I initially though perhaps because they were growing in shade, but I also saw several blooming bulbs at the LA Arboretum in nearly full sun.  Perhaps the climatic difference between here (cool coastal San Diego) and there? (warm inland valley)    BTW ... back in the beginning of August, I found a new gopher hole and a freshly dead mother gopher immediately next to my bulbs :-).   I suspect it took a bite or nibbled on the roots or bulb, known to be a source of rodenticide.  I do not like gophers ... and have been battling a new infestation this summer.    Ken Blackford San Diego I was surprised to see your shot of Urginea maritima in  bloom in September at the Huntington. They finished bloom here in early July. Andrew San Diego From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:08 2011 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: [PBS] Crinum versus the bulldozers........ Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 21:03:52 -0700 O, i forgot to add the common name of Crinum Flaccidum is very apt........ It is the "Darling Lily" I love it ! How apt ! for to give a girl a lily means "I dare you to love me" But this beautiful specimen is also named after its native environment " The Murry Darling Basin" of Queensland. I don't think Venosum has a common name from memory ? Its flower is quite similar to Crinum Angustifolium, but has pretty pink new buds which become pale as they develop..... If i had to describe them as a potential garden species, I would describe them as " delightfully feminine " Steven On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 6:04 PM, Alberto Castillo wrote: Which species is Crinum venosum? From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:08 2011 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: Australian Crinum Photos Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 21:51:01 -0700 I'm new to this but i think i can haha....... http://www.flickr.com/photos/67167299@N04/6114632531/in/photostream From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:08 2011 Message-Id: <2B18EC7E70F4406EB209A5C05FF43256@DF5XS5C1> From: Subject: Australian Crinum Photos Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 21:57:18 -0700 I, for one, definitely think you can! Shirley Meneice From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:10 2011 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: Australian Crinum Photos Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 22:10:18 -0700 :-)..........Thank u i'm pretty excited about it all, this could open Pandoras Box ! On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 9:57 PM, wrote: > I, for one, definitely think you can! > > Shirley Meneice > > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:10 2011 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: [PBS] Crinum versus the bulldozers........ Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 22:37:16 -0700 On 4-Sep-11, at 7:39 PM, steven hart wrote: > I prefer to keep locations secret because > of intense poaching of seeds & bulbs. I was very impressed when I visited King's Park in Perth, Western Australia. It is a botanic garden, but completely open as a city park. No gatekeeper, no fee to get in. The beds are planted geographically, for the most part, but there was one area that had endangered plants. They were not in cages, not even fenced, and were all labelled. I was astounded, remembering stories of thefts of pansies and primroses from our city parks. I couldn't imagine what would happen if we had endangered species in our parks, with signs drawing attention to their rarity. So I am sad to hear that it might be only Western Australians who can be trusted with rare plants. Diane Whitehead Victoria British Columbia, Canada From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:10 2011 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: [PBS] Crinum versus the bulldozers........ Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 23:23:45 -0700 Hi Diane, its the old story of a few bad eggs spoiling the batch i think. Sometimes people take through sheer ignorance, not so much $$$ or rarity. One of the areas i know of is too close to a road & every time i ever see a flower someone picks it off so its a really small patch. Another spot there is a couple on a footpath & the stupid council keep mowing them every year before they seed, that drives me nuts. But u cant fight bureaucracy any more u can only push at the walls now & then. Its pretty low crime here though in SE Qld same in Brisbane you can go through all our botanical garden areas except a special bonsai area it is a security chamber that would keep Dr Who out haha.........Steven Queensland Australia On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Diane Whitehead wrote: > > Diane Whitehead > Victoria British Columbia, Canada > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:11 2011 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: [PBS] Crinum versus the bulldozers........ Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 08:53:52 +0200 I have seen many of these places not from Crinum but rare European bulb-sites Pity but there are now houses build on other places land is ploughed for farmland small pockets on Majorca from 20-50 m² with protected Paeonia's but this seems to be legal Roland 2011/9/5 steven hart > This little story is for the crinum lovers out there....... > > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:11 2011 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Australian Crinum Photos Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 09:00:20 +0200 Good pics Steven go on this way Roland 2011/9/5 steven hart > :-)..........Thank u i'm pretty excited about it all, this could open > Pandoras Box ! > > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:13 2011 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: [PBS] Crinum versus the bulldozers........ Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 02:05:44 -0700 Sad isn't it Roland, thats what happened with wide spread populations of Proiphys cunninghamii ( Brisbane Lily) here in Australia...They were formally named (Flinders lily) after one of the early Australian Explorers, or was he a Botanist....any way they were growing in good numbers all over the Greater Brisbane area when the sailing ships rolled in they are now generally extinct through out the whole area now covered with the urban sprawl of 1.5 million people. I'm so lucky one because Proiphys is one of the many rare specias native to my property & each plant produces about 1 to 3 vibrant orange covered seeds per year in the wild here, they grow easily & flower quite early in life in a commersial invironment. I have seen cases of bacterial infection in Brisbane nursery grown stock & i believe it was caught directly from eucharis lilies, one of their relitaves i believe...I love them...They are increadibly drought tollerant & i never water the ones in the garden. On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 11:53 PM, bulborum botanicum wrote: > I have seen many of these places not from Crinum but rare European > bulb-sites > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:13 2011 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: Australian Crinum Photos Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 02:09:11 -0700 Wait till i find the great ones hehe....... On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 12:00 AM, bulborum botanicum wrote: > Good pics Steven go on this way Roland > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:11:13 2011 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: Crinum venosum Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 02:21:28 -0700 Hey Rob what a great link, nice work ! Excellent information...It always facenates me to see everyones different growing ideas too... Do you grow any Australian native crinums your self ? Steven Queensland On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 7:28 PM, Robert Hamilton wrote: > Hi Alberto, > > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 12:55:51 2011 Message-Id: <9742C1F355884645A0D2284461A8B908@amaryllis> From: "jim lykos" Subject: [PBS] Crinum versus the bulldozers........ Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 19:37:51 +1000 Hi Steven, I enjoyed your enthusiasm and the story of your involvement in the bulb rescue - and I'm also an Australian Crinum enthusiast from NSW. I hope you will accept an update on the status of the Australian Crinums you mentioned. The Crinum species that you called flaccidum in Queensland has been reinstated as Crinum brisbanicum. Flaccidum is a NSW species initially found in the Liverpool plains and along the Darling river. Another white Crinum is found in the lower reaches of the Murray River in the state of South Australia- that is being named C. murrayanum. The Crinum with one thin leaf and a single flower is C. uniflorum from Cape York and the north coast of the northern Territory. Crinum luteolum is the name that has been reinstated for the yellow Crinum species from the southern part of South Australia. There is was appears to be a yellow subspecies that grows in the SA desert regions extending into southern Northern Territory. I,m also aware that a review of Crinums in QLD is likely to reinstate another 4 species eg C. pestilensis, Douglasii, brevistyllum. There are large tracts of arid QLD - that I have been informed support as yet unidentified Crinum species. Cheers Jim Blue Mountains Aust. ----- Original Message ----- From: "steven hart" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] [PBS] Crinum versus the bulldozers........ > Hi Alberto > > Crinum Venosum is an Australian Native, smaller in stature than many > crinums, with a thin leaf. One local South East Queensland discovery was > made about, 100km or so west of me, when it was being investigated as a > possible Crinum Flacceedum sighting. What a lovely surprise & i bet i'm > the > only person who ever found them in wivenhoe dam, they were in incredibly > thick scrub areas far from any civilization....& really off the beaten > track, completely protected by Mount Glorious on one side & cut off by > grazing properties on the other. I prefer to keep locations secret because > of intense poaching of seeds & bulbs. But now that i'm older i would speak > up if i thought populations would ever be disturbed again by > development.... > It is very similar to its cousin, with beautiful but simple white fragrant > flower, not as strong as flacceedum in fragrance. The petals are more > rigid sharp to the tip like a double edge dagger, unlike Flacceedum which > has quite a good parabolic curvature to outer edge of the petal & a slight > back turned more rounded tip. They both flower from the bace & produce > occasional offsets at random if they have a happy season. The flower is > quite open star shaped & upright, unlike the yellow Crinum F Luteolum from > Western Australia, which is slightly more bell shaped. The pollinating > parts > of Venosum flower are less prominent. Seeds are large & random & never in > profusion. Habitat crosses over for Flac & Veno & they could be easily be > mistaken to the untrained eye. They have a shorter lass robust leaf than > Flaceedum & are slower growing too. > > Natural habitat is usually dry creek beds in aluveal sandy loam soils but > they will tollerate many soils if they have to. Super drought tolerant, > but > can easily stand good rain too. Super hardy & live in areas that can > receive > super hot wet summers & very cold but not so long frosted winters. I dont > have frost so mine grow almost all year, only becoming dormant for a very > short couple of weeks or so sometimes. > > I will Wiki list these all soon as i can, hope you enjoyed the info.... > Steven > On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 6:04 PM, Alberto Castillo > wrote: > >> >> Which species is Crinum venosum? >> >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 13:10:52 2011 Message-Id: <606372144.889822.1315224273922.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: Pacific BX 284 CLOSED Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 12:04:33 +0000 (UTC) Whew! Such enthusiasm. Packages will probably not be sent until after next weekend. Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 13:40:53 2011 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 12:33:12 +0000 It is a great message, coming from a worldwide known authority. That Conference was the most spectacular bulb event ever taking place. Could not be repeted. From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 13:40:53 2011 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Crinum venosum Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 12:37:03 +0000 Thank you Rob, never heard of it before. > Hey Rob what a great link, nice work ! Excellent information...It always > facenates me to see everyones different growing ideas too... > Do you grow any Australian native crinums your self ? > Steven > Queensland > > On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 7:28 PM, Robert Hamilton wrote: > > > Hi Alberto, > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 13:55:54 2011 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: [PBS] Crinum versus the bulldozers........ Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 12:51:37 +0000 Thanks, Diane and Steven. And Jim Lykos posting deserves to be printed as always. Thanks for the wealth of information. When will be see the book on the Amaryllidaceae by Jim I wonder? The habitat comments are priceless and it is even more surprising what Steve says about Proiphys: it was always be asumed to be a species from the Papua New Guinea or Amazonian jungle conditions. We may have been very wrong about its requirements. The rescue work is a fantastic thing to do. You see, in South Africa the small IBSA band has made countless rescues over the years replanting in safer areas quantities of bulbs and corms in the path of a new road or development. S From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 14:55:55 2011 Message-Id: <4E64D397.7020707@gmail.com> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: People Still Dig Protected Bulbs Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2011 09:50:15 -0400 In an e-mail from my sister in Israel: "Pictures of blossoming squill have been featured in local newspapers and though they are a protected plant, my dentist dug up a couple while camping on holiday for a week with his family. He potted them in a deep container and patients like me, gazing out the the glass door to the balcony of his major examination room, can enjoy the thin elegant spire that each one boasts." I was somewhat surprised that my sister didn't say anything negative about this. There have been other occasions when she writes of the iniquities of taking protected plants or their seeds. Granted, back in 1973 when she and her family made aliyah and our parents visited them, a Cyclamen persicum tuber that had fallen out of a roadside back was brought home to me. (I still have it, significantly larger, and reliably flowering early every winter.) Is it O.K. to rescue such plants that fall by the wayside? Should they be replanted into the bank, waiting for the next road crew to disinter them again? Should such no-digging-involved, likely-to-die plants be up for grabs? Construction and livestock are more deadly. That same year, 1973, my husband was working in Holland. The children and I (plus 2 cats and a dachshund) joined him for the summer. We had a long weekend in London. I made an outing to Colonel Mars nursery in Haslemere, and recall an absolute heap of cyclamen tubers laying on a groundsheet next to a path. For sure they were collected material. Trillium grandiflorum an absolute sheet of white visible from the car as we drove along Route 80 in Ohio in early May, in the early 1980s. Not there the next year. Ticky tacky little houses had replaced the forest. An old USDA pamphlet on propagation / growing bulbs had directions for raising trillium from seed with thorough, detailed instructions: sow fresh, leaf appears 2nd year, thin out and space thus and such, space more widely in 4th or 5th year, blooming plants in 7 years. Yup. If you do this, and do it every year - in seven years and every year thereafter you have sturdy, healthy, nursery raised plants. Don't sow any seeds and in seven years you have what you started with. Nothing. From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 15:25:56 2011 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Fascinating Topics Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 09:17:42 -0500 Dear Friends, We are being treated to two related fascinating topics of Endangered Plants and Australian Crinum, but using subject heading like "Crinum versus Bulldozers" will loose this material in the PBS archives. Please change the topic of your message as you discuss new materials. I am afraid some members are automatically deleting topics related to bulldozers. Keep these interesting discussions going and continue on these important issues. Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 16:40:59 2011 Message-Id: From: Erin Grace Subject: Pacific BX 284 Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 11:39:39 -0400 Hi, Dell please send 2,3,13 Thank you, Erin Grace 200 Sawgrass Lane Thomasville, GA 31757 From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 16:55:59 2011 Message-Id: From: Erin Grace Subject: Pacific BX 284 Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 11:40:31 -0400 my apologies, this was supposed to go to Dell only Erin ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Erin Grace Date: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 284 To: Pacific Bulb Society Hi, Dell please send 2,3,13 Thank you, Erin Grace 200 Sawgrass Lane Thomasville, GA 31757 From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 16:55:59 2011 Message-Id: From: Erin Grace Subject: Pacific BX 284 CLOSED Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 11:41:47 -0400 what a day....I didn't see your closing until I already sent a request everyone must be off of work today! Erin On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 8:04 AM, wrote: > > > Whew! Such enthusiasm. > > > > Packages will probably not be sent until after next weekend. > > > > Enjoy, > > Dell > > > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 16:55:59 2011 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: transitive law of hybridization Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 11:54:47 -0400 I assume such a law doesn't really exist. However, I just realized something. There's "lots" of hybrids between Manfreda and Agave. And there's also hybrids between Manfreda and Polianthes. So are there any hybrids between Agave and Polianthes? Google seems to say that Manfreda and Polianthes used to be lumped into Agave. But I am talking about Polianthes and Agave as they exist today. Are there hybrids between the two? (Like P. tuberosa and A. americana, or whatever) From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 17:26:00 2011 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Plant conservation, was Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2011 09:03:36 -0700 Harold Koopowitz wrote, >Alberto: >I have not forgotten. I was the one who invited Read and Campbell to >the meeting in the first place. However, the fact that some plants >are on CITES has very little to do with actual levels of threat. It >has more to do with "do-gooders" who actually did not really >appreciate what they were doing when plant groups were placed on >CITES. I am vividly reminded of the program I organized for a NARGS Winter Study Weekend some years ago, to which I invited Faith Campbell of the Natural Resources Defense Fund to speak. She was first on the morning program, and her talk really woke the audience up -- and not in a good way. She inveighed against any collection of any material in the wild, including seeds, and against the introduction of exotic species via gardens. People who take this fundamentalist approach to plant conservation tend to be urbanites who haven't spent much if any time in remote regions and who don't know how few seeds dispersed in the wild actually progress to the mature, reproductive plant stage. As for the threat of invasive species, it is real, but such plants are far more likely to invade where the way has been prepared for them by human activity, especially soil disturbance and the destruction of balance in naturally evolved plant communities, whether this is by farming, pastoralism, fire suppression (yes!) or killing off animals that prey on herbivores. That said, if I found Tecophilaea cyanocrocus in the wild (highly unlikely!) I wouldn't take away seeds from it, but I would plant some in protective crevices on the site. Joshua wrote, " I don't think it's just the younger crowd that are eagerly awaiting the presence of the rarer Amaryllids into their collection considering their beauty. I think this is why it's important for many to share their collections to avoid people for searching at whatever cost and it's quite difficult to find many seasoned growers that are willing to offer offsets to places like PBS of incredibly rare species." Having been fortunate enough to be able, over many years, to buy seeds of some rare species (though not tropical amaryllids, which I can't grow here), I was glad to be able to share them, first through my surplus sales and now through having given stock bulbs and seeds to Mark Akimoff's Illahe Nursery in Salem, Oregon. Mark just sent out his first catalog and reports a good response (you can contact him at mark_akimoff@msn.com). He is a university-trained horticulturist who moved his focus from alpines to bulbs in order to fit a nursery operation in with his fulltime job in wetlands conservation. I'm sure many older gardeners are grateful to be able to pass on their collections to younger ones. Hoarding a plant collection is never a good idea. I see that Terry Laskiewicz has just sent Watsonia humilis to the BX; I don't know whether she got it from me, but I lost it in a bad freeze 2 years ago, and am glad to see it's still around so I can eventually get it back, as it's a delightful plant and an opportunity to grow a Watsonia in a small space (not a feature of most species in the genus). Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 17:10:59 2011 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: what is this pest? Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 12:07:28 -0400 I didn't get any reply on another gardening forum, so I'll re-post here to PBS.... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- These little guys wiped out many plants in my collection last year. And they're back this year.  The best I can figure is they're some kind of foliar thrips, if there is such a thing.  What do you guys think? Nematanthus brasiliensis http://www.badbear.com/P9030010.JPG http://www.badbear.com/what%20is%20it%201.jpg Niphaea oblonga http://www.badbear.com/P9030013.JPG http://www.badbear.com/what%20is%20it%202.jpg They wiped out a bunch of my baby AVs already, before I realized it was actually pests, and not overwatering making my AVs sick.  Ugh. They seem to love Geseriads, Begonias, Amaryllids, Orchids, but not so much Irids, or Passiflora. Thanks. Dennis in Cincy From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 17:26:00 2011 Message-Id: <46EE67FCDF7D4909B170DF47C3BC553D@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: What's blooming now - week of Sept 3, 2011 Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 09:14:56 -0700 Well, it's interesting, Ken. A friend in Escondido had them in bloom in July as well. Here is why I ask about timing of bloom in different parts of southern California. My suspicion, yet unproven, is that blooming does not start until after leaves have dried up. When that occurs is, I think, dependent, mainly on how much water, if any, it may have received during summer. Summer temperatures in Pasadena, near the Huntington, are hotter than here in the coastal areas of San Diego. The Huntington waters its grounds in summer, which I rarely do, at least where the Urgineas clump. Summer temperatures are similar to those of Pasadena in Escondido, about thirty miles from the coast in San Diego county. However, at the seldom watered site in Escondido, blooming occurred much earlier, similar but slightly later than occurred here. So, I'd be interested to hear if you, Ken, or others with similar climates, could note the blooming time and whether water in summer had been provided. Andrew San Diego From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Ken Hi Andrew ...   my own, too, also finished blooming in early August, so I was also surprised to see them blooming at the Huntington.  I initially though perhaps because they were growing in shade, but I also saw several blooming bulbs at the LA Arboretum in nearly full sun.  Perhaps the climatic difference between here (cool coastal San Diego) and there? (warm inland valley)    BTW ... back in the beginning of August, I found a new gopher hole and a freshly dead mother gopher immediately next to my bulbs :-).   I suspect it took a bite or nibbled on the roots or bulb, known to be a source of rodenticide.  I do not like gophers ... and have been battling a new infestation this summer.    Ken Blackford San Diego I was surprised to see your shot of Urginea maritima in  bloom in September at the Huntington. They finished bloom here in early July. Andrew San Diego From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 17:26:00 2011 Message-Id: From: "J. Agoston" Subject: what is this pest? Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 18:15:25 +0200 this is thrips, you may try tiametoxam or imidacloprid, and re-spray in 7-10 days at least 3 times, you may also spray with lambda-cihalotrin or other pirethroid second time From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 17:41:01 2011 Message-Id: <1315240446.15981.YahooMailClassic@web80405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: Drimia (Urginea) maritima blooming time Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 09:34:06 -0700 (PDT) Hello Andrew,   Hmmm ... you may be on to something with the irrigation issue.  I provide no additional water after the rains stop here (usually by April) ... but the specimens at both the Huntington and the LA Arboretum in Arcadia clearly are located where they receive supplemental Summertime water.   Ken   From: AW Subject: Re: [pbs] What's blooming now - week of Sept 3, 2011 To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Date: Monday, September 5, 2011, 9:14 AM Well, it's interesting, Ken. A friend in Escondido had them in bloom in July as well. Here is why I ask about timing of bloom in different parts of southern California. My suspicion, yet unproven, is that blooming does not start until after leaves have dried up. When that occurs is, I think, dependent, mainly on how much water, if any, it may have received during summer. Summer temperatures in Pasadena, near the Huntington, are hotter than here in the coastal areas of San Diego. The Huntington waters its grounds in summer, which I rarely do, at least where the Urgineas clump. Summer temperatures are similar to those of Pasadena in Escondido, about thirty miles from the coast in San Diego county. However, at the seldom watered site in Escondido, blooming occurred much earlier, similar but slightly later than occurred here. So, I'd be interested to hear if you, Ken, or others with similar climates, could note the blooming time and whether water in summer had been provided. Andrew San Diego Hi Andrew ...   my own, too, also finished blooming in early August, so I was also surprised to see them blooming at the Huntington.  I initially though perhaps because they were growing in shade, but I also saw several blooming bulbs at the LA Arboretum in nearly full sun.  Perhaps the climatic difference between here (cool coastal San Diego) and there? (warm inland valley)    BTW ... back in the beginning of August, I found a new gopher hole and a freshly dead mother gopher immediately next to my bulbs :-).   I suspect it took a bite or nibbled on the roots or bulb, known to be a source of rodenticide.  I do not like gophers ... and have been battling a new infestation this summer.    Ken Blackford San Diego I was surprised to see your shot of Urginea maritima in  bloom in September at the Huntington. They finished bloom here in early July. Andrew San Diego From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 18:25:46 2011 Message-Id: From: "Ton Wijnen" Subject: Australian Crinum Photos Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 19:10:29 +0200 Very nice, Thank you for sharing Ton Wijnen Holland -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] Namens steven hart Verzonden: maandag 5 september 2011 6:51 Aan: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Onderwerp: [pbs] Australian Crinum Photos I'm new to this but i think i can haha....... http://www.flickr.com/photos/67167299@N04/6114632531/in/photostream From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 18:25:46 2011 Message-Id: <3254A811-213B-4DAF-B1F6-2F6FB5ACF34A@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 10:12:25 -0700 I've said this before, but I believe that Josh has a point here. If better efforts are made to get seeds or offsets of the really desirable plants into the hands of those, like almost everyone on this list, who want and will take care of them, I am certain it will take a lot of pressure off the efforts to exploit wild populations into extinction. (Hopefully we won't see much more of the kind of stories where they put a wild-collected bulb in every cereal box!) I think virtually everyone on this list totally supports the conservation of wild populations of bulb species on every continent. I don't think that's the problem. On the other hand, you're not ever going to get people like all of us to stop wanting to obtain and grow all these amazing species. All we want is the opportunity to share in the excess of seeds, and eventually plants, of these species. I've pointed out before to several people on this list, what I think is a great recent example of what could be done with many other species. When the new species Clivia mirabilis was unexpectedly discovered in a region of South Africa that no one expected in the early 2000s, the plant authorities in that country knew that the entire population possibly could have been collected if efforts to protect it weren't quickly implemented. So they placed the area it was found in under protection and there were already laws being passed in that country to protect all of the native flora. But places like Kirstenbosch realized that despite all that, it would be even better if all the people who wanted it could somehow get it. Which would greatly ease the pressure for poaching to occur. So they collected a large number of seeds legally, announced to the world that they were doing so, and that after they had grown the seedlings for a couple of years, anyone could purchase one or more (up to a limit of 4 I think it was), at a completely reasonable price. And they even went to the effort to centralize the distribution to each country in order to comply with phytosanitary certification and importation quarantines and rules. I was able to obtain two of them (which I still have) at a far more reasonable price than I've seen lately for this species from people who have gone on to produce seeds and plants of it since then. Nowadays, you can go on tours that the Clivia Society puts on from time to time to see the plant in several native locales, and as far as I can tell, no one seems to be wanting to try and sneak some plants from those locations because they can get them far more easily from people who grow them in captivity, so to speak. I think Kirstenbosch's plan was brilliant, and it worked. I think a similar thing, on a lesser scale is true of the efforts of a number of Australians along with the Worsleya email list, in making both seeds and plants of Worsleya procera (the "Blue Amaryllis") available to the world at large. Worsleya is still very rare, and hard to keep growing until you can figure out the right growing regimen under your local conditions. But at least it has gotten to the point that you don't need to surreptitiously consider, in the privacy of your own home of course ;-), how you might someday try to make a trip to the Organ Mountains of Brazil to smuggle a bulb or some seeds out in order to ever try growing it for yourself… --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a Latitude 34°N, Altitude 1150 ft/350 m On Sep 4, 2011, at 5:13 PM, Joshua Young wrote: > Alberto, > > I don't think it's just the younger crowd that are eagerly awaiting the > presence of the rarer Amaryllids into their collection considering their > beauty. I think this is why it's important for many to share their > collections to avoid people for searching at whatever cost and it's quite > difficult to find many seasoned growers that are willing to offer offsets to > places like PBS of incredibly rare species. It's also sad to see others > that do offer seed or offsets of rare species for prices in the several > hundreds of dollars making them even more unobtainable for many. > > Luckily there are some who are willing to donate offsets and seed and I > honestly think it does take a large amount of stress from wild populations. > > Josh > > On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Alberto Castillo > wrote: > >> >> Harold, you were present, along with Peter Goldblatt, Brian Mathew, Martyn >> Rix, Alan, Fred Meyer, Adrian, Chuck Hardman and scores of others when Mike >> Read and Faith Thompson Campbell unmasked the frantic Cyclamen plundering in >> Turkey. You were the Chairman of International Bulb Society in those glory >> days. >> >> The extent of the looting was such that even here in farway Argentina huge >> hederifolium tubers (dessicated and hopeless) were available for sale. >> Granted the leaading case was mirabile but the fact that ALL cyclamens are >> CITES plants for years indicates all species were threatened. >> >> Rodger, it was Stan Farwig, in all they were three letters and they >> appeared in Pacific Horticulture mag in the Readers Letters section. I would >> strongly recommend reading them to the generation of younger growers. that >> are so eager to obtain the rarest amaryllids "without asking much". Stan's >> arguments were demolishing. I don't remember the arguing was nasty, only >> that it exposed a founding father....... >> From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 18:40:43 2011 Message-Id: From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Drimia (Urginea) maritima blooming time Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 10:25:42 -0700 Also, it was unusually cool in this are (Pasadena/Arcadia) for an extremely extended period of time this year. I could not believe how long some of my winter-growers kept their leaves. Some of my Amaryllis belladonna were still in full leaf into the middle of July. I think my Urginea maritima also kept their leaves until mid-July. Mine haven't sent up scapes yet. I have a few blossoms *still* on one of my Conanthera campanulata and it hasn't received any moisture since early June. My first Amaryllis scape is just showing (although up in the hills where there are some old clumps of them growing completely wild, those are in full bloom at the moment). So I think the unusual weather we had earlier this year might have something to do with this. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a Latitude 34°N, Altitude 1150 ft/350 m On Sep 5, 2011, at 9:34 AM, Ken wrote: > Hello Andrew, > > Hmmm ... you may be on to something with the irrigation issue. I provide no additional water after the rains stop here (usually by April) ... but the specimens at both the Huntington and the LA Arboretum in Arcadia clearly are located where they receive supplemental Summertime water. > > Ken > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 18:40:43 2011 Message-Id: From: Jon Lindstrom Subject: transitive law of hybridization Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 12:28:47 -0500 There are hybrids between Manfreda and Agave, Manfreda and Polianthes and hybrids between the three: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonsplants/4594882145/in/set-72157618939440805 I suspect that Agave will successfully cross with Polianthes given the right species both flowering at the same time (can be difficult to achieve). Jon Fayetteville, Arkansas > > Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 11:54:47 -0400 > From: Dennis Kramb > Subject: [pbs] transitive law of hybridization > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I assume such a law doesn't really exist. However, I just realized > something. > > There's "lots" of hybrids between Manfreda and Agave. > And there's also hybrids between Manfreda and Polianthes. > > So are there any hybrids between Agave and Polianthes? > > Google seems to say that Manfreda and Polianthes used to be lumped > into Agave. But I am talking about Polianthes and Agave as they exist > today. Are there hybrids between the two? (Like P. tuberosa and A. > americana, or whatever) > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 104, Issue 9 > *********************************** > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 18:40:43 2011 Message-Id: From: Joshua Young Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 13:29:13 -0400 Lee et alia: Thank you for this great response, I do agree that it would be in everyone's interest to donate their extra material of their geophytes as there is always someone looking for something. I do wish to conserve many plants and my search for many rare Hippeastrum and other Amaryllids is done in hopes to create seed to disperse to others that may be looking for the same things. It's important to have many of these plants in cultivation due to over development, grazing and environmental issues which may cause a plant to dwindle to nothing. It's our job to keep these plants alive whether it's reproduction or saving them from areas that may be dangerous to their safety. I also think it's important for many seasoned collectors to apply their knowledge to the newer audience in hopes to educate them on these issues, it's easy to be smug but that only pushes away others from understanding. Josh On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Lee Poulsen wrote: > I've said this before, but I believe that Josh has a point here. If better > efforts are made to get seeds or offsets of the really desirable plants into > the hands of those, like almost everyone on this list, who want and will > take care of them, I am certain it will take a lot of pressure off the > efforts to exploit wild populations into extinction. (Hopefully we won't see > much more of the kind of stories where they put a wild-collected bulb in > every cereal box!) > I think virtually everyone on this list totally supports the conservation > of wild populations of bulb species on every continent. I don't think that's > the problem. > > On the other hand, you're not ever going to get people like all of us to > stop wanting to obtain and grow all these amazing species. All we want is > the opportunity to share in the excess of seeds, and eventually plants, of > these species. > > I've pointed out before to several people on this list, what I think is a > great recent example of what could be done with many other species. When the > new species Clivia mirabilis was unexpectedly discovered in a region of > South Africa that no one expected in the early 2000s, the plant authorities > in that country knew that the entire population possibly could have been > collected if efforts to protect it weren't quickly implemented. So they > placed the area it was found in under protection and there were already laws > being passed in that country to protect all of the native flora. But places > like Kirstenbosch realized that despite all that, it would be even better if > all the people who wanted it could somehow get it. Which would greatly ease > the pressure for poaching to occur. So they collected a large number of > seeds legally, announced to the world that they were doing so, and that > after they had grown the seedlings for a couple of years, anyone could > purchase one or more (up to a limit of 4 I think it was), at a completely > reasonable price. And they even went to the effort to centralize the > distribution to each country in order to comply with phytosanitary > certification and importation quarantines and rules. I was able to obtain > two of them (which I still have) at a far more reasonable price than I've > seen lately for this species from people who have gone on to produce seeds > and plants of it since then. Nowadays, you can go on tours that the Clivia > Society puts on from time to time to see the plant in several native > locales, and as far as I can tell, no one seems to be wanting to try and > sneak some plants from those locations because they can get them far more > easily from people who grow them in captivity, so to speak. I think > Kirstenbosch's plan was brilliant, and it worked. > > I think a similar thing, on a lesser scale is true of the efforts of a > number of Australians along with the Worsleya email list, in making both > seeds and plants of Worsleya procera (the "Blue Amaryllis") available to the > world at large. Worsleya is still very rare, and hard to keep growing until > you can figure out the right growing regimen under your local conditions. > But at least it has gotten to the point that you don't need to > surreptitiously consider, in the privacy of your own home of course ;-), > how you might someday try to make a trip to the Organ Mountains of Brazil to > smuggle a bulb or some seeds out in order to ever try growing it for > yourself… > > --Lee Poulsen > Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a > Latitude 34°N, Altitude 1150 ft/350 m > > > On Sep 4, 2011, at 5:13 PM, Joshua Young wrote: > > > Alberto, > > > > I don't think it's just the younger crowd that are eagerly awaiting the > > presence of the rarer Amaryllids into their collection considering their > > beauty. I think this is why it's important for many to share their > > collections to avoid people for searching at whatever cost and it's quite > > difficult to find many seasoned growers that are willing to offer offsets > to > > places like PBS of incredibly rare species. It's also sad to see others > > that do offer seed or offsets of rare species for prices in the several > > hundreds of dollars making them even more unobtainable for many. > > > > Luckily there are some who are willing to donate offsets and seed and I > > honestly think it does take a large amount of stress from wild > populations. > > > > Josh > > > > On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Alberto Castillo > > wrote: > > > >> > >> Harold, you were present, along with Peter Goldblatt, Brian Mathew, > Martyn > >> Rix, Alan, Fred Meyer, Adrian, Chuck Hardman and scores of others when > Mike > >> Read and Faith Thompson Campbell unmasked the frantic Cyclamen > plundering in > >> Turkey. You were the Chairman of International Bulb Society in those > glory > >> days. > >> > >> The extent of the looting was such that even here in farway Argentina > huge > >> hederifolium tubers (dessicated and hopeless) were available for sale. > >> Granted the leaading case was mirabile but the fact that ALL cyclamens > are > >> CITES plants for years indicates all species were threatened. > >> > >> Rodger, it was Stan Farwig, in all they were three letters and they > >> appeared in Pacific Horticulture mag in the Readers Letters section. I > would > >> strongly recommend reading them to the generation of younger growers. > that > >> are so eager to obtain the rarest amaryllids "without asking much". > Stan's > >> arguments were demolishing. I don't remember the arguing was nasty, only > >> that it exposed a founding father....... > >> > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 19:10:42 2011 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 10:56:42 -0700 I hate to think what would have happened had this species ever made it to one of the CITES appendices. Fortunately it did not and has not, so, ironically, its survival is far more likely than would otherwise have been the case. T > I've pointed out before to several people on this list, what I think is a great recent example of what could be done with many other species. When the new species Clivia mirabilis was unexpectedly discovered in a region of South Africa that no one expected in the early 2000s, the plant authorities in that country knew that the entire population possibly could have been collected if efforts to protect it weren't quickly implemented. So they placed the area it was found in under protection and there were already laws being passed in that country to protect all of the native flora. But places like Kirstenbosch realized that despite all that, it would be even better if all the people who wanted it could somehow get it. Which would greatly ease the pressure for poaching to occur. So they collected a large number of seeds legally, announced to the world that they were doing so, and that after they had grown the seedlings for a couple of years, anyone could purchase one or more (u p to a limit of 4 I think it was), at a completely reasonable price. From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 19:10:43 2011 Message-Id: From: Tony Avent Subject: Drimia (Urginea) maritima blooming time Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 14:05:37 -0400 Ken: Urginea maritima from our Crete expedition are in flower here in NC this week. They were given only minimal irrigation this summer. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Ken Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 12:34 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Drimia (Urginea) maritima blooming time Hello Andrew, Hmmm ... you may be on to something with the irrigation issue. I provide no additional water after the rains stop here (usually by April) ... but the specimens at both the Huntington and the LA Arboretum in Arcadia clearly are located where they receive supplemental Summertime water. Ken From: AW Subject: Re: [pbs] What's blooming now - week of Sept 3, 2011 To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Date: Monday, September 5, 2011, 9:14 AM Well, it's interesting, Ken. A friend in Escondido had them in bloom in July as well. Here is why I ask about timing of bloom in different parts of southern California. My suspicion, yet unproven, is that blooming does not start until after leaves have dried up. When that occurs is, I think, dependent, mainly on how much water, if any, it may have received during summer. Summer temperatures in Pasadena, near the Huntington, are hotter than here in the coastal areas of San Diego. The Huntington waters its grounds in summer, which I rarely do, at least where the Urgineas clump. Summer temperatures are similar to those of Pasadena in Escondido, about thirty miles from the coast in San Diego county. However, at the seldom watered site in Escondido, blooming occurred much earlier, similar but slightly later than occurred here. So, I'd be interested to hear if you, Ken, or others with similar climates, could note the blooming time and whether water in summer had been provided. Andrew San Diego Hi Andrew ... my own, too, also finished blooming in early August, so I was also surprised to see them blooming at the Huntington. I initially though perhaps because they were growing in shade, but I also saw several blooming bulbs at the LA Arboretum in nearly full sun. Perhaps the climatic difference between here (cool coastal San Diego) and there? (warm inland valley) BTW ... back in the beginning of August, I found a new gopher hole and a freshly dead mother gopher immediately next to my bulbs :-). I suspect it took a bite or nibbled on the roots or bulb, known to be a source of rodenticide. I do not like gophers ... and have been battling a new infestation this summer. Ken Blackford San Diego I was surprised to see your shot of Urginea maritima in bloom in September at the Huntington. They finished bloom here in early July. Andrew San Diego From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Mon Sep 5 21:25:46 2011 Message-Id: <4BB27FCF-18B3-4722-858E-BCE324841A87@mac.com> From: Robert Hamilton Subject: Crinum venosum Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 06:18:17 +1000 Hi Steven, > Do you grow any Australian native crinums your self ? Yes I try , but have to say that South African Crinum are more suited to my climate. Cheers, Rob From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 11:58:56 2011 Message-Id: <5E0E361A-5BB3-4C67-B7BB-4D9959ED23BB@evolution-plants.com> From: Tom Mitchell Subject: Veratrum on the Wiki Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 23:43:36 +0100 In an attempt to encourage other PBS members to join me on the lunatic fringe of the Veratrum Worshippers Party, I have posted about 20 new images and an expanded introduction to the relevant Wiki page. It's lonely out here on the fringe. Come and join me (membership free...). http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Veratrum Tom From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 11:58:59 2011 Message-Id: <27481943.1315263025531.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Ellen Hornig Subject: Veratrum on the Wiki Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 18:50:25 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Yes! One of my favorite genera - and I didn't realize we were counting it as "bulbous". I grow V. nigrum, V. virginicum, V. woodii and V. formosanum, and love them all. V. virginicum (I still call it Melanthium, actually) blooms like crazy every year, and aside from having a strange smell is a joy in the damp garden. My V. woodii put on a really good display of flowers this year, which was a real treat. Now that I know it's within the scope of PBS, I'll try to remember to send seed of V. virginicum to the seed ex. It's easy to germinate (cold/warm) and reaches young flowering size within 3-5 years. Mature plants bloom at around 2m for me - planted in a large group, they are stunning. Glad to know I qualify for the lunatic fringe - Ellen - Ellen Hornig 3712 Co. Rt. 57 Oswego NY 13126 Phone: 315-342-5573 From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 11:59:00 2011 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Veratrum on the Wiki Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 18:52:11 -0400 OMG! What the heck are those?! Veratum species native to Ohio? Hurry up and donate seeds to the BX! <3 Dennis in Cincinnati (who has never heard of this genus before!) On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Tom Mitchell wrote: > In an attempt to encourage other PBS members to join me on the lunatic fringe of the Veratrum Worshippers Party, I have posted about 20 new images and an expanded introduction to the relevant Wiki page. It's lonely out here on the fringe. Come and join me (membership free...). > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Veratrum > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 11:59:06 2011 Message-Id: <0DC9E59BE8D143BE8FE3CD8EDD82AEC6@DF5XS5C1> From: Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 20:59:04 -0700 Are many of you in the U.S. aware of the Center for Plant Conservation, headquartered at the Missouri Botanic Garden in St. Louis? Their mission is to conserve and restore the imperiled native plants of our country. It is a consortium of Botanic Gardens and Arboreta across the country, including New York BG, Arnold Arboretum. Fairchild, Univ. of Washington, Desert Botanical Garden, Missouri Botanical Garden, Brooklyn Botanic Garden, Historic Bok Sanctuary, Flagstaff, AZ; Red Butte, Santa Barbara, Morton Arboretum, Arizona-Sonora Desert, Cinncinnati Zoo and BG, Chicago Bot. Garden, New England Wildflower, Denver Bot. Garden, North Carolina BG, Waimea Valley BG. New York BG, Rancho Santa Ana BG, State Botanical Garden of Georgia, Chicago BG, National Tropical BG, Holden Arboretum,, Minnesota, Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center, Cornell Plantation and Honolulu BG. For more information, please contact Kathryn Kennedy@mobot.org. From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 11:59:07 2011 Message-Id: <1169982539.5672.1315289612539.JavaMail.www@wwinf1m13> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Veratrum on the Wiki Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 08:13:32 +0200 (CEST) Thanks for the beautiful photgraphs and the reaaly great text! Do you know Margaret Owen who has the british national collection? I could put you in touch? Mark > Message du 06/09/11 00:43 > De : "Tom Mitchell" > A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] Veratrum on the Wiki > > In an attempt to encourage other PBS members to join me on the lunatic fringe of the Veratrum Worshippers Party, I have posted about 20 new images and an expanded introduction to the relevant Wiki page. It's lonely out here on the fringe. Come and join me (membership free...). http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Veratrum Tom _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 11:59:07 2011 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: [PBS] Crinum versus the bulldozers........ Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 01:12:51 -0700 Hi Jim Thank u so much for the update, I hope everyone sees it......I don't think much of their new names though, brisbanicum, yuk people are sick of seeing briseverything. But wonderful & exciting news that new species will be listed. I just hope they know how to protect them....Hey Jim do u have a link about this so i can learn more about it all ? I'm obsessed with them too & would love to keep in touch for swaping if your interested :-) On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 2:37 AM, jim lykos wrote: > Hi Steven, > > I enjoyed your enthusiasm and the story of your involvement in the bulb > rescue - and I'm also an Australian Crinum enthusiast from NSW. I hope you > will accept an update on the status of the Australian Crinums you > mentioned. > The Crinum species that you called flaccidum in Queensland has been > reinstated as Crinum brisbanicum. From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 11:59:08 2011 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: Crinum Flaceedum Renamed Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 01:22:00 -0700 Just incase anyone mised Jims update Crinum flaceedum that i have been talking about has been renamed brisbanicum.....Goodness its hard to keep up with all the name changes :-( Thanks Jim From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 11:59:08 2011 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: Pacific BX 284 CLOSED Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 01:26:31 -0700 No rush..........:-) On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 5:04 AM, wrote: > > > Whew! Such enthusiasm. > > > > Packages will probably not be sent until after next weekend. > > > > Enjoy, > > Dell > > > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 11:59:08 2011 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: Hi Jim Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 01:43:59 -0700 Hi Jim I know i got that heading change right :-) I'm still a little confused about headings. I know how to change them but not sure when or whats a better heading ? Or did u mean others when they change the topic ? I'm getting used to how things work, i'm fascinated by all the knowledge , help & updates of information, in fact its almost information overload, but how wonderful how u all help each other, most admirable... I have the deleat the information to a few lines so its all ships ahead, but i was confused by headings when Mary Sue tried to explain it too, i'd appreciate another shove in the right direction :-) Steven On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 7:17 AM, James Waddick wrote: > Dear Friends, > We are being treated to two related fascinating topics of > Endangered Plants and Australian Crinum, but using subject heading > like "Crinum versus Bulldozers" will loose this material in the PBS > archives. > > Please change the topic of your message as you discuss new > materials. > > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 13:13:54 2011 Message-Id: From: Tony Avent Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 08:12:07 -0400 Shirley: I'm glad you posted a note about the Center for Plant Conservation (CPC). Although their mission is good, I have found them to be one of the most elitist organizations that I've ever encountered. They seem more interested in patting each other on the back than actually accomplishing anything. In talking with them, they seem to have no interest in commercial nurseries or private collectors, since in their eyes, we are the great "unwashed". We don't understand the "problems" inherent with growing endangered plants...all rare plants must remain exactly where they are today, unless academic bureaucrats decide its okay to relocate them. They dismiss all nurseries and horticulture in general because we are evil commercial ventures only wanting to exploit plants. As I've tried to explain to several members, the nursery industry would be the perfect partner, not only in being able to actually grow the plants, but we could do wonders with ex-situ conservation by spreading the plants around widely to collectors in this changing climate. We would have many more Federally Endangered plants in our catalog if it were not for this bunch of bureaucrats...along with those from the US Fish and Wildlife. Do you know that to legally grow and sell Federal Endangered plants, you must prove that by doing so, you will help the wild populations. Common sense would say that as long as you aren't harming the wild population, this should be adequate. The CPC absolutely do not want endangered plants in private hands since the idea that they might wind up in a new location gives them fits...think Linda Blair from the Exorcist. Evidently, I missed the memo where someone put them in charge of keeping nature in exactly the same place as it is today....quite bizarre. In my logical world, a functional CPC would be passing out propagation material of endangered plants to nurseries and encouraging them to get it propagated and sold. Until we can get folks with more common sense, I don't hold much hope for the group actually accomplishing anything meaningful. How about it Shirley...are you up to the task? Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of meneice@att.net Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 11:59 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Saving Endangered Plants Are many of you in the U.S. aware of the Center for Plant Conservation, headquartered at the Missouri Botanic Garden in St. Louis? Their mission is to conserve and restore the imperiled native plants of our country. It is a consortium of Botanic Gardens and Arboreta across the country, including New York BG, Arnold Arboretum. Fairchild, Univ. of Washington, Desert Botanical Garden, Missouri Botanical Garden, Brooklyn Botanic Garden, Historic Bok Sanctuary, Flagstaff, AZ; Red Butte, Santa Barbara, Morton Arboretum, Arizona-Sonora Desert, Cinncinnati Zoo and BG, Chicago Bot. Garden, New England Wildflower, Denver Bot. Garden, North Carolina BG, Waimea Valley BG. New York BG, Rancho Santa Ana BG, State Botanical Garden of Georgia, Chicago BG, National Tropical BG, Holden Arboretum,, Minnesota, Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center, Cornell Plantation and Honolulu BG. For more information, please contact Kathryn Kennedy@mobot.org. From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 15:28:57 2011 Message-Id: <20110906142736.603F7E8C42@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Veratrum on the Wiki Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2011 07:27:05 -0700 We very much appreciate Tom Mitchell's improvements to the Veratrum wiki page. I agree that his text is excellent and he has added some splendid photographs. I hope this will inspire some of the rest of you who have a passion for a specific genus to take on adding to some of our current wiki pages with your knowledge and photos. Mary Sue From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 15:58:57 2011 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Veratrum on the Wiki Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 16:54:03 +0200 I uploaded A picture from Veratrum viride RBGG Idaho peak syn.V eschscholtzii if you want you can use it for the wiki We took a small part from the giant motherplant but it didn't survive the trip I know where the motherplant is so one day I go to collect seeds see: https://picasaweb.google.com/108516029021129842551/VeratrumVirideRBGGIdahoPeakSynVEschscholtzii?authkey=Gv1sRgCK23047qsYH9cg#5649258144277306386 Roland 2011/9/6 Mary Sue Ittner > We very much appreciate Tom Mitchell's improvements to the Veratrum > wiki page. I agree that his text is excellent and he has added some > splendid photographs. > > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 16:59:00 2011 Message-Id: <7807AC1A87564080833341D49C17E1E6@RobinPC> From: "Robin Carrier" Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 11:46:00 -0400 didn't all plants originally come from nature? ( so we could all kill them three times) robin carrier -------------------------------------------------- From: "Tony Avent" Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:12 AM To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" Subject: Re: [pbs] Saving Endangered Plants > Shirley: > > I'm glad you posted a note about the Center for Plant Conservation (CPC). > Although their mission is good, I have found them to be one of the most > elitist organizations that I've ever encountered. They seem more > interested in patting each other on the back than actually accomplishing > anything. In talking with them, they seem to have no interest in > commercial nurseries or private collectors, since in their eyes, we are > the great "unwashed". We don't understand the "problems" inherent with > growing endangered plants...all rare plants must remain exactly where they > are today, unless academic bureaucrats decide its okay to relocate them. > They dismiss all nurseries and horticulture in general because we are evil > commercial ventures only wanting to exploit plants. > > As I've tried to explain to several members, the nursery industry would be > the perfect partner, not only in being able to actually grow the plants, > but we could do wonders with ex-situ conservation by spreading the plants > around widely to collectors in this changing climate. We would have many > more Federally Endangered plants in our catalog if it were not for this > bunch of bureaucrats...along with those from the US Fish and Wildlife. Do > you know that to legally grow and sell Federal Endangered plants, you must > prove that by doing so, you will help the wild populations. Common sense > would say that as long as you aren't harming the wild population, this > should be adequate. The CPC absolutely do not want endangered plants in > private hands since the idea that they might wind up in a new location > gives them fits...think Linda Blair from the Exorcist. Evidently, I > missed the memo where someone put them in charge of keeping nature in > exactly the same place as it is today....quite > bizarre. In my logical world, a functional CPC would be passing out > propagation material of endangered plants to nurseries and encouraging > them to get it propagated and sold. > > Until we can get folks with more common sense, I don't hold much hope for > the group actually accomplishing anything meaningful. How about it > Shirley...are you up to the task? > > > > Tony Avent > Plant Delights Nursery @ > Juniper Level Botanic Garden > 9241 Sauls Road > Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA > Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F > Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F > USDA Hardiness Zone 7b > email tony@plantdelights.com > website http://www.plantdelights.com > phone 919 772-4794 > fax 919 772-4752 > "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least > three times" - Avent > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of meneice@att.net > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 11:59 PM > To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' > Subject: Re: [pbs] Saving Endangered Plants > > > Are many of you in the U.S. aware of the Center for Plant Conservation, > headquartered at the Missouri Botanic Garden in St. Louis? > > Their mission is to conserve and restore the imperiled native plants of > our country. It is a consortium of Botanic Gardens and Arboreta across > the country, including New York BG, Arnold Arboretum. Fairchild, Univ. of > Washington, Desert Botanical Garden, Missouri Botanical Garden, Brooklyn > Botanic Garden, Historic Bok Sanctuary, Flagstaff, AZ; Red Butte, Santa > Barbara, Morton Arboretum, Arizona-Sonora Desert, Cinncinnati Zoo and BG, > Chicago Bot. Garden, New England Wildflower, Denver Bot. Garden, North > Carolina BG, Waimea Valley BG. New York BG, Rancho Santa Ana BG, State > Botanical Garden of Georgia, Chicago BG, National Tropical BG, Holden > Arboretum,, Minnesota, Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center, Cornell > Plantation and Honolulu BG. > > For more information, please contact Kathryn Kennedy@mobot.org. > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 16:59:00 2011 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 16:48:14 +0100 I have never come accros this organisation but if Galanthus nivalis were not CITES, as I understand it is, along with other species of snowdrop, I could send thousands of garden sourced bulbs to anyone who wanted them, removing the presure on wild populations from unscrupulous collector/ vendors and the same principle applies to other protected plants. Peter (UK) On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Tony Avent wrote: > Shirley: > > I'm glad you posted a note about the Center for Plant Conservation (CPC). > > As I've tried to explain to several members, the nursery industry would be > the perfect partner, not only in being able to actually grow the plants, but > we could do wonders with ex-situ conservation by spreading the plants around > widely to collectors in this changing climate. > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 17:13:59 2011 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 17:58:56 +0200 Fritillaria meleagris Almost extinct in Holland but thanks to a few illegal collections grown by millions now and still exist in the nature in Holland probably thanks to the few illegal collections I tried in 1992 to convince the Cypriot government to do the same with Tulipa cypria but it is impossible to talk with those bureaucrats as far as I know after almost 20 years there is still no stock from this Tulipa and it's still collected by the locals to sell it on the market to tourist FRUSTRATING Roland 2011/9/6 Robin Carrier > > didn't all plants  originally come from nature? ( so we could all kill them > three times) > > robin carrier > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 17:44:00 2011 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20110906120629.037af8c0@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2011 12:28:58 -0400 Hi all, I visited the CPC at Mobot once and talked for quite some time with Ms. Kennedy. Ms. Kennedy was quite polite, perhaps because of my past associations with conservation efforts for bulbs (IUCN bulb committee, v.p. and director of conservation for I.B.S., all at least 10 years ago). I did not approach her as a nurseryman. We had a good chat and she was able to tell me about at least a couple successful re-introductions into the wild. I had been skeptical of it up until that point, because it usually just hasn't worked. So C.P.C. is doing some reasonable things, and has had at least a couple preliminary successes. Some of my best friends work for botanic gardens (Hi, Boyce!) but I have also encountered Obsessive Compulsive behavior, perhaps colored by self-interest, among botanical garden folks. There is a strong tendency to want to monopolize the whole subject. However, when I tried to find refuges in botanical gardens for rare bulb species being salvaged from development sites in Sprain, I got short shrift. We had all the proper papers, and they included my signature promising not to let the bulbs get into commercial channels. I eventually did get them all placed with reasonably secure institutions, but no one would or could guarantee me that they would not have been destroyed or lost in the future. I'm not really confident that any of them are still alive. It's tough world out there, and I am absolutely convinced that anything humanity does not actively preserve will not survive the next century or so. I fear it will be ex situ preservation or no conservation at all. Tony makes a strong argument for propagation and distribution through nurseries. Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 18:13:38 2011 Message-Id: <004201cc6cb4$de3c5230$9ab4f690$@com> From: "Pamela Harlow" Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 09:48:42 -0700 The logic is almost pre-Darwinian--a place for everything, and everything in its place, all orchestrated by the ultimate bureaucrat--God. I organize plant sales twice a year for a Seattle conservation group. Naturally, they want to see lots of northwest natives on the tables, and I honor this. At every sale, someone wants to argue about the definition of "native". Many people insist that our native flora should be confined to those plants present at first European contact. Totally arbitrary! Why not pre-Ice Age? Leaving aside the issue of botanical manipulation by indigenous people, the most recent ice sheet was deep enough here to bury the Space Needle four times over. Every plant here had to migrate back and re-colonize. Who's to say that that process is finished? Nature will never fit neatly into static categories. Pamela Harlow ____________________________________________________________________________ ______________ Original message: Evidently, I missed the memo where someone put them in charge of keeping nature in exactly the same place as it is today....quite bizarre. From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 18:13:38 2011 Message-Id: <9C4624612A96406CAC5492F3EAD23F53@DF5XS5C1> From: Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 09:49:43 -0700 Tony, I'm on my way to a CPC Board meeting this week in St. Louis, so will let you know how elitist my group is or isn't when I return. Peter Raven is also on the Board and I'll be interested in his reaction to your passionate plea. Shirley From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 18:13:38 2011 Message-Id: <011D624033BA481DAA6AC3C7FBBF7D61@MarekKomputer> From: "Marek Walnik" Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 18:52:50 +0200 Hi, I don't know why all this plant conservation is concerned only on “wild” or “botanical" plants. I think that many of old cultivars should be protected; they may bring genes from wild species or varieties not existing today. They may have gene combination not available today. I think so, because there are lots of people collecting cultivars of many of domesticated plants. For example, my sister had been working for several years on old apple cultivars collection, as a kind of gene bank (http://www.staresady.republika.pl/intro_en.htm in English). Are there any such collections of old bulbous plants cultivars? Subject: Re: [pbs] Saving Endangered Plants Marek Walnik (PL) _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 18:28:38 2011 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 18:13:29 +0100 Hello Marek, This is called "Plant Heritage" in England. People have "national collections" of groups of plants, eg the "Bowles Crocus" It covers both species and cultivars. Peter(UK) On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Marek Walnik wrote: > Hi, > I don't know why all this plant conservation is concerned only on “wild” or > “botanical" plants. > I think that many of old cultivars should be protected; .... > Are there any such collections of old bulbous plants cultivars? > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Saving Endangered Plants > > Marek Walnik (PL) > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 18:28:38 2011 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 13:15:53 -0400 I don't understand (I haven't learned) the laws restricting plant trade for rare species. I'm so sad that I can't re-acquire plants of Boltonia decurrens which grew beautifully in my garden 6 to 12 years ago... because of laws "protecting" it. Yet I can get plants of Iliamna remota, which is also protected. Say what? Both of these are native Illinois wildflowers which are quite well suited to my climate in SW Ohio. I enjoy carnivorous plants too. And I see CP lovers going to great lengths to preserve the gene pool of rare Sarracenia by distributing them to other die-hard CP lovers, trading pollen, trading seed, etc. And especially with S. oreophila, which I think is the most endangered of the genus. It seems sensible to me that nursery propagated (and home-garden propagated) material should be allowed to be distributed to other growers. Some of these laws are clearly detrimental to the preservation of the species they're trying to protect. Dennis in Cincinnati From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 18:28:39 2011 Message-Id: <0B5A5F1107EC4B7ABB375765CE265918@DF5XS5C1> From: Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 10:23:11 -0700 Hortus Bulborum in Leyden has a fabulous collection. From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 18:43:39 2011 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 10:41:18 -0700 Sadly, there is similar elitism when it comes to botany in general. I have seen comments recently that suggest only people from botanical intitutions should be allowed to discover and describe new species. A simple analysis of the literature shows that the 'amateurs' have contributed significantly more to understanding the plants in many families than the so-called professionals. This applies to the cultivar world also - try establishing an ICRF as an individual! Access to herbarium sheet images from Aluka used to be free. Now a JSTOR subscription is required, and a lot of the information is in the public domain. The trend in rules and regulations are making it more and more difficult for individuals to contribute. I believe this is brought about by the insecurity of the 'professionals', given a demonstrably poor record of performance dating back to the 1700s. These institutions should instead be working more and more with nurserymen and non-institutional people. There is a huge pool of knowledge and skill, and most importantly, manpower, that is being ignored. T From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 18:58:39 2011 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Whats blooming week of Sept 2 2011 Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 10:52:24 -0700 Kipp, A bulb bed sounds really wonderful. And it's also really strange to see B. haemanthoides bloom with leaves! It's quite confused. Nhu On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Kipp McMichael wrote: > Haemanthus coccineus blooming on my new bulb bed: > http://www.anexaminedlife.net/bulbs/haemcocc.jpg > > Second a very unexpected bloom: I got this Boophone haemanthoides from > South Africa early this year. The Bay Are's mild temps let me give it a > short, late "winter" and it is just now going dormant. While I was moving > the bulb pot, I noticed this: > > http://www.anexaminedlife.net/bulbs/boohaem.jpg > > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 18:58:39 2011 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: People Still Dig Protected Bulbs Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 10:56:57 -0700 On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 6:50 AM, Judy Glattstein wrote: > Trillium grandiflorum an absolute sheet of white visible from the car as > we drove along Route 80 in Ohio in early May, in the early 1980s. Not > there the next year. Ticky tacky little houses had replaced the forest. > Judy, your comment conjured up a fantastic image in my head. I can of course only imagine what that must have been like. Trillium grandiflorum is a beautiful species. What a shame it was that they were all destroyed. Really sad. Nhu From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 19:13:40 2011 Message-Id: <8114456.1315332323372.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Ellen Hornig Subject: People Still Dig Protected Bulbs Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 14:05:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00) We still have those large sheets in various places in upstate NY, and they are indeed stunning to see. Where trilliums grow undisturbed, they grow very well. However, even here, where hunting provides significant parts of some people's diet, the deer are making inroads in the trilliums. Save a trillium - eat venison. :-) Ellen -----Original Message----- >From: Nhu Nguyen >Sent: Sep 6, 2011 1:56 PM >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Subject: Re: [pbs] People Still Dig Protected Bulbs > >On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 6:50 AM, Judy Glattstein wrote: > >> Trillium grandiflorum an absolute sheet of white visible from the car as >> we drove along Route 80 in Ohio in early May, in the early 1980s. Not >> there the next year. Ticky tacky little houses had replaced the forest. >> > >Judy, your comment conjured up a fantastic image in my head. I can of course >only imagine what that must have been like. Trillium grandiflorum is a >beautiful species. What a shame it was that they were all destroyed. Really >sad. > >Nhu >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki Ellen Hornig 3712 Co. Rt. 57 Oswego NY 13126 Phone: 315-342-5573 From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 19:43:41 2011 Message-Id: From: Tony Avent Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 14:30:59 -0400 Tim: I'll share one classic example of the problems with well-intentioned laws like the idiotic Convention on Biodiversity (CBD), which is even another example. A couple of years ago, a friend discovered several new species in southeast Asia that have been subsequently published. Because he had no CBD certificate, the publishing botanical author refused to indicate their origin other than to country in the scientific publication. Because their location was not described, the two small mountains where these plants were endemic to are now gone...mined for gravel. Without this stupidity, perhaps the government of this country could have been persuaded to save the mountains. At least those pesky collectors have living specimens and are sharing them. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Tim Harvey Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 1:41 PM To: Bulb Society Pacific Subject: Re: [pbs] Saving Endangered Plants Sadly, there is similar elitism when it comes to botany in general. I have seen comments recently that suggest only people from botanical intitutions should be allowed to discover and describe new species. A simple analysis of the literature shows that the 'amateurs' have contributed significantly more to understanding the plants in many families than the so-called professionals. This applies to the cultivar world also - try establishing an ICRF as an individual! Access to herbarium sheet images from Aluka used to be free. Now a JSTOR subscription is required, and a lot of the information is in the public domain. The trend in rules and regulations are making it more and more difficult for individuals to contribute. I believe this is brought about by the insecurity of the 'professionals', given a demonstrably poor record of performance dating back to the 1700s. These institutions should instead be working more and more with nurserymen and non-institutional people. There is a huge pool of knowledge and skill, and most importantly, manpower, that is being ignored. T From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 19:43:41 2011 Message-Id: <1315334084.79308.YahooMailRC@web81008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Veratrum viride Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 11:34:44 -0700 (PDT) Isn't Veratrum viride eschscholtzianum common everywhere in the montaine West from Tahoe north?  It shouldn't hurt for you to take some seed;  I doubt that you could propagate it from a cutting. David E. ________________________________ From: bulborum botanicum To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Tue, September 6, 2011 7:54:03 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Veratrum on the Wiki I uploaded A picture from Veratrum viride RBGG Idaho peak syn.V eschscholtzii if you want you can use it for the wiki We took a small part from the giant motherplant but it didn't survive the trip I know where the motherplant is so one day I go to collect seeds see: https://picasaweb.google.com/108516029021129842551/VeratrumVirideRBGGIdahoPeakSynVEschscholtzii?authkey=Gv1sRgCK23047qsYH9cg#5649258144277306386 Roland 2011/9/6 Mary Sue Ittner > We very much appreciate Tom Mitchell's improvements to the Veratrum > wiki page. I agree that his text is excellent and he has added some > splendid photographs. > > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:  bulborum@gmail.com From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 19:43:41 2011 Message-Id: From: Tony Avent Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 14:35:06 -0400 Shirley: You can make a difference, so give 'em heck! Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of meneice@att.net Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 12:50 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Saving Endangered Plants Tony, I'm on my way to a CPC Board meeting this week in St. Louis, so will let you know how elitist my group is or isn't when I return. Peter Raven is also on the Board and I'll be interested in his reaction to your passionate plea. Shirley From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 19:43:41 2011 Message-Id: From: Tony Avent Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 14:41:00 -0400 Jim: I promised only one story, but you just reminded me of another favorite. I spent 2 days in the herbarium of a southwest botanic garden a few years ago looking at fern specimens from the region. The herbarium curators bemoaned the lack of funds to travel and secure new specimens. I mentioned that our nursery would be glad to contribute to their expeditions, provided I could get a few spores in exchange. Their looks were truly incredulous...how could I imagine that an elitist botanic garden would cooperate with a lowly nursery, whose only motive was obviously greed. Needless to say, they never took me up on the offer. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of J.E. Shields Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 12:29 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Saving Endangered Plants Hi all, I visited the CPC at Mobot once and talked for quite some time with Ms. Kennedy. Ms. Kennedy was quite polite, perhaps because of my past associations with conservation efforts for bulbs (IUCN bulb committee, v.p. and director of conservation for I.B.S., all at least 10 years ago). I did not approach her as a nurseryman. We had a good chat and she was able to tell me about at least a couple successful re-introductions into the wild. I had been skeptical of it up until that point, because it usually just hasn't worked. So C.P.C. is doing some reasonable things, and has had at least a couple preliminary successes. Some of my best friends work for botanic gardens (Hi, Boyce!) but I have also encountered Obsessive Compulsive behavior, perhaps colored by self-interest, among botanical garden folks. There is a strong tendency to want to monopolize the whole subject. However, when I tried to find refuges in botanical gardens for rare bulb species being salvaged from development sites in Sprain, I got short shrift. We had all the proper papers, and they included my signature promising not to let the bulbs get into commercial channels. I eventually did get them all placed with reasonably secure institutions, but no one would or could guarantee me that they would not have been destroyed or lost in the future. I'm not really confident that any of them are still alive. It's tough world out there, and I am absolutely convinced that anything humanity does not actively preserve will not survive the next century or so. I fear it will be ex situ preservation or no conservation at all. Tony makes a strong argument for propagation and distribution through nurseries. Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 20:58:43 2011 Message-Id: From: Tom Mitchell Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 20:49:26 +0100 It's interesting (at least to me) how the thread I started on Veratrum overlaps with the extremely important discussion underway on the role of nurseries and gardeners in plant conservation. I could not agree more with Tony A's perspective on this subject and below I add my tuppence worth. I have, in cultivation, V. album and V. nigrum from about 25 locations each across their range in Europe, which I've collected myself. I also have a dozen other Veratrum species, many grown from wild collected seed. What was my motive in assembling this collection? Obviously that Veratrum are beautiful and varied garden plants, as we all seem to agree - a motive that many alleged conservationists seem to regard as suspect at best and downright immoral at worst. Why does my collection matter? Because Veratrum species are packed with alkaloids, most of which have never been investigated pharmacologically. As I noted in the introduction to the Veratrum page on the wiki, Cyclopamine, which is extracted from V. californicum, is showing great promise in the treatment of previously intractable brain, breast and pacreatic cancers. My friend Margaret Owen, who as Mark Brown pointed out has the UK National Collection of Veratrum, has been approached by academics from both the UK and the USA with a view to sampling the plants in her collection for alkaloids related to Cyclopamine. Evidently academics in the pharmaceutical world do not have the same scruples about dealing with us amateurs as their colleagues in botanical gardens. Many of the populations from which I have collected Veratrum plants are threatened by development, which is (I don't need to explain to anyone in this forum) a vastly more significant threat to wild plant populations than collecting. No botanic garden is interested in maintaining a collection of Veratrum. For example, RBGE, in many ways a model botanic garden is to the best of my knowledge the only place in the UK other than my garden where V. woodii is in cultivation. Margaret wrote to RBGE asking for seed from their plants, which were growing on the justly famous rock garden there. She never heard back and, when she went to look at the plants herself, found that they had been overgrown by a neighbouring plant clump and have probably been lost. Who in this tale is doing the most for Veratrum conservation? 1. The botanic gardens and self-appointed guardians of ex situ plant conservation; 2. The halfwits who would rather allow seed of V. fimbriatum in populations where natural recruitment is negligible to be dispersed and lost forever than collected and propagated or; 3. 'Selfishly' motivated amateurs like Margaret and me? Answers on a postcard. Best wishes (and apologies to the many academic botanists and botanical garden employees who would agree that the lunatics are running the asylums), Tom From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 20:58:44 2011 Message-Id: <7E771D94-880E-4E49-B374-12D89CD492B6@evolution-plants.com> From: Tom Mitchell Subject: Veratrum on the Wiki Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 20:50:50 +0100 I've been thrilled by the response both on and off the forum to my Veratrum post. Thanks to everyone who has responded - there are evidently more loonies out there than I'd believed. To answer some specific questions: Mark: Margaret Owen is a dear friend of mine. She and I put on an exhibit of Veratrum at the Hampton Court Flower Show earlier this year. The other exhibitors and the public loved it but the judges didn't - we got a bronze! Ellen: I think we can bend the rules and admit Veratrum under the 'bulb' umbrella! If Trillium counts, then so does Veratrum... As far as Melanthium versus Veratrum goes, I don't get very worked up about these things but, for what it's worth, two excellent, independent recent molecular phylogenetic studies, looking at different sequences both showed that the four former Melanthium species form a clade within Section Fuscoveratrum. Under the ICBN rules it would be permissible to transfer all the Fuscoveratrum species to Melanthium and retain the name Veratrum for Section Veratrum only. Wendy Zomlefer, who has studied the genus more intensively than anyone, proposed incorporating the Melanthium species within Veratrum, which I have to agree is a better solution... Dennis: Consider it done re the BX. I'll send Dell seed of various species. Veratrum plants typically set a huge quantity of seed in cultivation and the more of us that are growing them the safer they will be for the long term. Best wishes, Tom On 6 Sep 2011, at 17:02, pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > We very much appreciate Tom Mitchell's improvements to the Veratrum > wiki page. I agree that his text is excellent and he has added some > splendid photographs. > > I hope this will inspire some of the rest of you who have a passion > for a specific genus to take on adding to some of our current wiki > pages with your knowledge and photos. > > Mary Sue From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Tue Sep 6 22:13:45 2011 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Conservation by Propagation Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 16:00:38 -0500 Dear Friends, Tony, Tom and others have spoken clearly for the role of cultivated propagation and distribution of rare plants, yet it seems all the cards are stacked against both the nurseries and the gardeners. Growing any rare plants in commerce has GOT TO reduce the pressure on wild collection. This is just so obvious and a no brainer to make ones head split at disagreement. Almost the ONLY people who demand wild material from a known location are the very botanical gardens who will prevent their distribution. I hate to bemoan the acts of all botanic gardens as there are certainly good conservators, likewise their are nurseries who knowingly dig and sell illegal plants. Both of these are to more or less extent ruled by federal and international regulations that are often meaningless or misguided. I recommend both 'Orchid Fever' by Eric Hansen and The Orchid Thief' by Susan Orleans to get different sides of a similar story of thievery, black market sales, wealthy immoral plant collectors and crazed protectors. The bottom line is that it is extremely difficult to tell a rare, wild collect plant from a validly, legally grown rare plant of the same species. One need only see 'Nursery Grown" Trilliums selling for a dollar or two. This is economically impossible. Plants are often wild collected en masse, stuck in the ground for a season and given new legal papers. A fraud at best. On another hand the extremely onerous regulations make it almost a game and challenge for well meaning individuals to import a plant or bulb "in disguise". EBay has sure made this even more attractive. Add to this an impossible job of inspecting and regulating mail and packages coming into the US and illegal plants surely arrive multiple times per day into the US. Perhaps other countries are more able to inspect and filter illegal plants. I doubt it. I won't even start on CITES regulations which are nearly insane in their logic or national ownership of plant materials which prevents distribution of any plant pending its confirmed value ( See how the Chinese dealt with yellow camellias for example). I have worked on both sides of the conservation table - for years for an international conservation organization which only begrudgingly interacted with a couple expert individuals, but mostly avoided the entire topic of 'home grown. I can't bring this to a point or even suggest a lesson to be learned other than my topic. If all involved in conservation could support, allow and encourage 'Conservation by Propagation' it seems that both individual gardeners would have access to rare and unusual plants and wild plants would have some chance for recovery and preservation. It seems you can't have one without the other. I have used amazing self control in these remarks and it pains me. I can rant real good!! Best Jim -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 11:58:04 2011 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Amaryllis Forest Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 17:08:57 -0500 Had to share this facebook entry of a Thai woodland carpeted in Hippeastrum roseum. Wow https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=197605036922007&set=o.140817152642669&type=1&theater Best Jim -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 11:57:49 2011 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20110906193227.05514088@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2011 19:34:58 -0400 Even when you get seeds from botanic gardens, you have to keep in mind that, unless the seeds come from hand-pollinated plants grown in a greenhouse, god only knows what species the pollen parents might have been. Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 11:57:50 2011 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20110906193822.05514318@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2011 19:47:29 -0400 It seems worthwhile to expand on the comments by Pamela Harlow that in nature, plants are coming from dynamic environments. Just as for Pamel's home, my home was under 2 miles of ice just 20,000 years ago. There was not a tree where my woods is now when the ice melted just 12,000 years ago. I suspect that the first Trillium returned to the then-nascent woods perhaps only 10,000 years ago. What is in fact a "native" plant? Go back to the previous interglacial period, maybe 120,000 years ago, and I suspect that the native species here were not the same species that we find in my woods today. Environments are dynamic and constantly changing. Almost all species are in constant flux. These "fundamentalist" conservationists are living in a pre-Darwinian fantasy world that never did exist and never can. Don't they have any grasp of modern biology? Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 11:57:51 2011 Message-Id: From: "Carlo A. Balistrieri" Subject: Tecophilaea Cyanocrocus Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 20:04:19 -0400 Harold's right...and THEN there are all those listed solely because they look like the individual species for which protection would be helpful (a corm is a corm is a corm...). On Sep 4, 2011, at 9:10 PM, Harold Koopowitz wrote: > Alberto: > I have not forgotten. I was the one who invited Read and Campbell to > the meeting in the first place. However, the fact that some plants > are on CITES has very little to do with actual levels of threat. It > has more to do with "do-gooders" who actually did not really > appreciate what they were doing when plant groups were placed on > CITES. If you read my book "Orchids and their Conservation" you will > understand where I am coming from. Not all species of cyclamen are > threatened. Some are very widespread and weedy - take C. graecum for > example. > This does not mean that some plants are not truly endangered but the > species endangered by trade is a minuscule percentage compared to > those endangered by other activities. > Harold Carlo A. Balistrieri Head of Horticulture Royal Botanical Gardens 680 Plains Road West Burlington, ON Canada L7T 4H4 (905) 527 1158 ext. 539 (905) 577 0375 (fax) cbalistrieri@rbg.ca P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 11:57:51 2011 Message-Id: <9B9F4955-7109-47F5-BB37-AE7F9BC8B821@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 17:09:18 -0700 On Sep 6, 2011, at 9:28 AM, J.E. Shields wrote: > However, when I tried to find > refuges in botanical gardens for rare bulb species being salvaged from > development sites in Spain, I got short shrift. We had all the proper > papers, and they included my signature promising not to let the bulbs get > into commercial channels. I eventually did get them all placed with > reasonably secure institutions, but no one would or could guarantee me that > they would not have been destroyed or lost in the future. I'm not really > confident that any of them are still alive. This point of Jim's reminded me of a visit I was fortunate to make with Bill Baker who passed away unexpectedly a year ago or so. In his younger years (can't remember exactly: late '70s or the 1980s), he and two others spent 6 months roaming all over Bolivia and nearby countries, collecting seeds and bulbs of many, many different plants. Every week or two, they would clean and package everything they collected and ship a package back to the U.S. to people who would get everything planted for them. Bill told me that they came upon many different Hippeastrum species, for example, including a number that I've seen mentioned, but have never seen offered nor ever seen in the flesh, as well as several that they could not identify. When they finally returned to the States, they divided up everything they collected such that each of the three got at least one of each species they collected, and sometimes more. Bill donated the extras of everything he collected to botanical gardens or university collections; I think UCLA or UC Santa Barbara were the main recipients of his portion. He kept one of almost all the bulb species for example. He thinks the other two people may have done similarly, but the personal collections of both the other two have basically disappeared due to life's circumstances. And he got busy with family and a commercial nursery business and lost interest in all the Hippeastrum species that required more than a slight amount of care. Other than a large number of first generation hybrids (almost all of them with H. papilio--which produced hybrids that needed very little care, but in which the papilio coloration dominated), he only had a couple of species left at the time I visited him. I asked about the places he or the other two had deposited many of the species and he said those had all been lost over the years, usually due to changes along the way in the people who directed or managed the various collections, which included people with little interest in Hippeastrum, for example, during various time periods. So consequently, the species were not well cared for during those times and were eventually lost. Since I happen to like all Hippeastrum, species or hybrids, I expressed dismay. But Bill didn't seem to think it any great loss, especially because of the extra care some of them required to thrive in Southern California's climate. He showed me a shelf full of his meticulously written log books from that collection period, listing every species and location, of which he was obviously proud. But it seems somehow a moot thing since neither he nor his cohorts, nor the gardens/collections where all those plants ended up, still have much of them remaining. It makes me wonder where I should leave my collection many years from now when I get too old to take care of them or pass away myself. I've already told my wife that if I suddenly die, which gardens in this area *not* to give them to, since I don't trust them to either want to take care of them, or to distribute them to the public even should they want them. (Actually I told her to contact PBS first and ask them what she should do with my plants, should anything that unfortunate occur.) I know something different, but with the same eventual result, happened to UC Irvine's fantastic collection of South African Cape bulbs, but Harold Koopowitz never related the full story to me. Anyway, I'm not sure what the best way to keep rare plants going in the ex situ world except maybe through the continual sharing via BXs and other types of trading, and the existence of nurseries and mail order seed places like Tony's or Rachel Saunders's or Diana Chapman's or similar. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a Latitude 34°N, Altitude 1150 ft/350 m From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 11:57:51 2011 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Veratrum on the Wiki Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2011 17:23:27 -0700 Tom wrote, >Ellen: I think we can bend the rules and admit Veratrum under the >'bulb' umbrella! I would definitely say so. I have a lot of Veratrum californicum at my old garden and have dug offsets from time to time for people, or to bring here. I don't know if the very large storage organ is technically a rhizome, or caudex, or what, but it is very bulblike and is the best way of propagating Veratrum quickly during its dormant period in late summer. I grew these plants from direct-down seed gathered just down the road -- it's very common in ditches and other places that are moist in spring. It may never be a popular garden plant, however much people who don't know it admrie it in spring, because it disappears here by the end of July and one loses the "architectural" foliage. By the way, whatever you call the underground part, it gets very large and is a beast to dig! Regarding the medicinal qualities of Veratrum, Alaska Natives used it, I believe only topically, while well aware of its toxicity. It was said that one had to leave a small gift in the hole after digging the root in order to propitiate the plant's spirit. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 11:57:54 2011 Message-Id: <0B64F0D3-B44E-4917-8C48-1EE8FC88ABE7@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Veratrum on the Wiki Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 17:37:46 -0700 On 6-Sep-11, Jane McGary wrote: > It may never be a popular > garden plant, however much people who don't know it admire it in > spring, because it disappears here by the end of July and one loses > the "architectural" foliage. Oh, thank you! I've never done anything in summer in the area of the garden where I'm growing Veratrum, and just noticed that it is missing, which was very disappointing, considering how long it has been growing, and how slowly. I hope I didn't dig it out when I was planting in its area last week. I'll watch for it next spring. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada cool mediterranean climate moderate dry summers, moderate rainy winters 68 cm rain (27 in) From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 11:57:55 2011 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Veratrum on the Wiki Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 00:46:46 +0000 Tom and Jane: Under which conditions do Veratrums germinate? Does the seed must be prechilled in mild climates? Is there a delay or it germinates readily after being shed? The pleated foliage is so spectacular that it is worth the effort to start from seed. From your comments it must be slow to grow. From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 11:57:59 2011 Message-Id: <360E3FC3-F3EC-4D62-B696-7D538C7CBB88@gingerwoodnursery.com> From: Tim Chapman Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 20:52:01 -0500 Lee brings up a few very good points. I've introduced numerous zingiberaceae spp over the years into the US. These have come from other collectors, foreign nurseries, botanic gardens, and from my own collecting trips. Over the years I've lost many of these for various reasons. My early mentors stressed trading material and I'm glad I listened. Many of the ones I have lost are still well established in the trade, some have made it to several other countries etc etc. I've been focusing on seed lately as an easier way to get plants established in several peoples hands in many different regions. In reality I know it's just extending the inevitable but at least they have a better chance. I started when I was 12 or so, and even at that age I was able to write to botanic gardens and taxonomists and found most very willing to send plant material. Over the years botanic gardens have become much less inclined to share for several reasons including the ridiculous notion that the country of origin should receive financial compensation if a plant were released. 99% of these plants aren't and won't be grown for release by nurseries in the country of origin. The restrictive policies ensure no nurseries anywhere will bother with the red tape etc. Over the years the following things have proven true: Saving large expanses of native habitat is the only chance of long term survival. Even then it's not guaranteed. Collectors die and so do their plants. Botanic gardens change staff, change goals, lose funding, and have greenhouse failures. Unusual weather patterns can wipe out species in a particular region in one season. Gardeners' tastes change often and the trade follows. Once commonly cultivated plants can disappear from the scene incredibly fast. Basically no one group is capable of saving anything long term (the life of a collector is not long term). And in reality all the groups together can't do that much more. When survival becomes dependent on human intervention and cultivation, extinction is inevitable. If plants can't be in a suitable climate with their pollinators, all that can be done is prolong their end a little longer. Depressing view but hopefully illustrates how idiotic plant hoarding is by anyone or institution. Tim Chapman From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 11:57:58 2011 Message-Id: From: Richard Kyper Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 18:58:17 -0700 Hi Bulb Enthusiasts, First off, what if the plant won't die after 3 attempts to kill it? It's great to see the adrenalin flowing on the subject of endangered species, plant procurement from academic and conservation sources. This falls right in line with my pleas, begging, promising, and cajoling several Botanic gardens to open the seed bank purse strings, so to speak, to trade, or sell. I'm convinced that many such institutions, in their Ivory Tower, revel in having exclusives, under the guise of being the ONLY responsible and knowledgeable institution or committee who knows how to handle this material. Its frightening to think, but yes, it happens that institutions have suffered losses from plant liberations. Perhaps, this could be , in part, due, to not making things available . I detest stealing. It's not necessary. Nothing is worth it. But, I can understand how it might lead some into temptation. We ARE human. I personally vote for sharing with nurseries, generous collectors, serious groups(PBS perhaps?) What overall good does it do anyone, or the plants to keep them under lock and key for private coddling? Lastly, Veratrum viride. Hardly,,, hardly endangered. I know of FIELDS, wet fields full of them. A pinch of seed is NOT going to send this genus / species into troubled waters of endangerment. Rick>>>>> steps down from the soap box From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 11:58:00 2011 Message-Id: <8A53C70E407545E2AE6777C25C3A4E78@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 19:24:28 -0700 Lee's comments correspond with own findings in all too many cases. Collector enthusiasm followed up with nice presentations and then by inadequate care has led to the loss of much material. Granted that, in many cases, non-collection would result in loss, collection has often resulted in losses as well. We are destroying our planet and keeping tabs on all of our collected species seems to be beyond us, I regret to say. It's difficult to hold on permanently to the remnants of an ecology. Andrew This point of Jim's reminded me of a visit I was fortunate to make with Bill Baker who passed away unexpectedly a year ago or so. In his younger years (can't remember exactly: late '70s or the 1980s), he and two others spent 6 months roaming all over Bolivia and nearby countries, collecting seeds and bulbs of many, many different plants. Every week or two, they would clean and package everything they collected and ship a package back to the U.S. to people who would get everything planted for them. Bill told me that they came upon many different Hippeastrum species, for example, including a number that I've seen mentioned, but have never seen offered nor ever seen in the flesh, as well as several that they could not identify. When they finally returned to the States, they divided up everything they collected such that each of the three got at least one of each species they collected, and sometimes more. Bill donated the extras of everything he collected to botanical gardens or university collections; I think UCLA or UC Santa Barbara were the main recipients of his portion. He kept one of almost all the bulb species for example. He thinks the other two people may have done similarly, but the personal collections of both the other two have basically disappeared due to life's circumstances. And he got busy with family and a commercial nursery business and lost interest in all the Hippeastrum species that required more than a slight amount of care. Other than a large number of first generation hybrids (almost all of them with H. papilio--which produced hybrids that needed very little care, but in which the papilio coloration dominated), he only had a couple of species left at the time I visited him. I asked about the places he or the other two had deposited many of the species and he said those had all been lost over the years, usually due to changes along the way in the people who directed or managed the various collections, which included people with little interest in Hippeastrum, for example, during various time periods. So consequently, the species were not well cared for during those times and were eventually lost. Since I happen to like all Hippeastrum, species or hybrids, I expressed dismay. But Bill didn't seem to think it any great loss, especially because of the extra care some of them required to thrive in Southern California's climate. He showed me a shelf full of his meticulously written log books from that collection period, listing every species and location, of which he was obviously proud. But it seems somehow a moot thing since neither he nor his cohorts, nor the gardens/collections where all those plants ended up, still have much of them remaining. It makes me wonder where I should leave my collection many years from now when I get too old to take care of them or pass away myself. I've already told my wife that if I suddenly die, which gardens in this area *not* to give them to, since I don't trust them to either want to take care of them, or to distribute them to the public even should they want them. (Actually I told her to contact PBS first and ask them what she should do with my plants, should anything that unfortunate occur.) I know something different, but with the same eventual result, happened to UC Irvine's fantastic collection of South African Cape bulbs, but Harold Koopowitz never related the full story to me. Anyway, I'm not sure what the best way to keep rare plants going in the ex situ world except maybe through the continual sharing via BXs and other types of trading, and the existence of nurseries and mail order seed places like Tony's or Rachel Saunders's or Diana Chapman's or similar. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a Latitude 34°N, Altitude 1150 ft/350 m From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 11:58:09 2011 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Amaryllis Forest Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 23:53:05 -0700 Jim, the link does not work but perhaps the owner has removed the page. It sounds lovely though. Nhu On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 3:08 PM, James Waddick wrote: > > Had to share this facebook entry of a Thai woodland carpeted > in Hippeastrum roseum. > Wow > > https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=197605036922007&set=o.140817152642669&type=1&theater > > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 11:58:21 2011 Message-Id: From: "Zonneveld, B.J.M. (Ben)" Subject: Hortus bulborum Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 07:44:30 +0000 Hortus bulborum Is a large collection of cultivars of out of fashion tulips and daffodils and fritillaria and some more. However it is not in Leiden but in Limmen 75 km north of leiden. Ben Zonneveld From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 18:23:03 2011 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: Amaryllis Forest Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 08:02:22 -0700 Jams, Could you resend the images in another format or via another link, please? I, for one, do not use Facebook. Thanks Andrew San Diego ---- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James Waddick Had to share this facebook entry of a Thai woodland carpeted in Hippeastrum roseum. Wow https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=197605036922007&set=o.14081715264266 9&type=1&theater Best Jim -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 18:23:04 2011 Message-Id: From: Joshua Young Subject: Hippeastrum roseum -- What Is It? Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 11:08:01 -0400 Hippeastrum roseum, does anyone know if this is a valid species or a hybrid? I've seen it marked as a synonym for Hippeastrum stylosum as well as Hippeastrum puniceum and called Hippeastrum equestre (syn. puniceum) but what is it truly? Also, does anyone know where this plant is endemic? Does anyone know what the correct spot is for this plant? It seems Thailand sells them like crazy on e-bay as whatever name they decided for the day! I've thought the plant seems to be a form of H. puniceum but I'm not quite sure what the valid idea is.. Josh From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 18:23:06 2011 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Hippeastrum roseum -- What Is It? Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 11:56:05 -0400 My understanding is it's a miniature pink Hippeastrum. But I can't vouch for its authenticity as a species. I acquired 6 bulbs almost 2 years ago, but they haven't bloomed for me yet. I killed some by overwatering last winter. And I think that caused the others not to bloom. Anyway, I haven't checked on them in months. If they're doing well I should have some extras to share with you Josh. Dennis in Cincinnati On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Joshua Young wrote: > Hippeastrum roseum, does anyone know if this is a valid species or a > hybrid?  I've seen it marked as a synonym for Hippeastrum stylosum as well > as Hippeastrum puniceum and called Hippeastrum equestre (syn. puniceum) but > what is it truly?  Also, does anyone know where this plant is endemic? > > Does anyone know what the correct spot is for this plant?  It seems Thailand > sells them like crazy on e-bay as whatever name they decided for the day! > > I've thought the plant seems to be a form of H. puniceum but I'm not quite > sure what the valid idea is.. > > Josh From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 18:23:08 2011 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Amaryllis Forest Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 11:09:10 -0500 >Could you resend the images in another format or via another link, please? >I, for one, do not use Facebook. Thanks Dear Freinds, Sorry this is in a section that is closed to non-members. Most can be viewed, but not this one. Similar to the forest floor of Lycoris pictured on the wiki, but completely Hipp roseum (whatever that is) Sorry. Jim -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 18:23:07 2011 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Variegated Dioscorea Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 11:09:21 -0500 Dear ??? Someone wanted bulbils of the hardy variegated Dioscorea. I said I'd let them know, but who? I'll send some in to the BX, but want to make sure a few get to THE PERSON. And did we ever actually decide what the correct species name for this one? Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 18:23:09 2011 Message-Id: <8CE3B9302462E0C-19F4-6AD02@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Variegated Dioscorea Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 12:33:29 -0400 (EDT) That would be me. Thanks, Jude From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 18:23:17 2011 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Veratrum on the Wiki Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 10:07:25 -0700 Alberto asked, > Under which conditions do Veratrums > germinate? Does the seed must be prechilled in mild climates? Is > there a delay or it germinates readily after being shed? > > The pleated foliage is so spectacular that > it is worth the effort to start from seed. From your comments it > must be slow to grow. When direct sown just as it became ripe in summer, it germinated in early spring. Sown later in fall in pots (Tom sent me some seeds), it germinated also in early spring after exposure to chilling all winter. This suggests that moist chilling is required for germination, but it takes only one winter season, not two. And yes, the plants are very slow to mature. I think it took about 7 years for the native species to grow from sowing to flowering in my former garden. It's better to propagate them from offsets, which at least in V. californicum are numerous. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 18:23:10 2011 Message-Id: <4E67A64C.7050902@gmail.com> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: Botanic Gardens and Seed Exchanges Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 13:13:48 -0400 I remember when the New York Botanical Garden used to have an Index Seminum, ditto the Leyden Botanic Garden. Budget cuts, staffing changes - seem to be a thing of the past. I used to belong to the Cyclamen Society, in large part for their seed exchange. USDA rules made it so onerous for them that I was told members from the USA could no longer participate. Someone offered to collate requests, receive on bulk shipment and resend but that never worked out. As many members are well aware, the best seed exchanges are those run by NARGS (North American Rock Garden Society), AGS (Alpine Garden Society, SRGC (Scottish Rock Garden Club.) Their net is wide flung and includes numerous plants that grow below the tree line. Superb sources for many diverse plants, including geophytic genera. Still, it is a pity that botanic gardens with Index Seminum are a vanishing / vanished option. Judy in New Jersey where the last 3 days have produced over 4 inches of rain, no end in sight as forecasts for the remainder of the week are for more rain - and this is not even a hurricane. We need better distribution, would love to send some of this to Texas where it would be received with delight From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 18:37:58 2011 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Botanic Gardens and Seed Exchanges Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 10:35:56 -0700 Judy, Let's not forget our very own BPS BX exchange. We are close to our 300th offering and it may reach that number by the end of the year! This means that from the 10 years that PBS has been in existence, we have provided an average of 30 offerings per year. As far as I know, all of this distribution came from the amazing and tireless efforts of Dell Sherk and his helpers. I think for a small society, we're doing very well and our BX is as healthy as ever with new and interesting material coming in all the time. Nhu On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 10:13 AM, Judy Glattstein wrote: > > As many members are well aware, the best seed exchanges are those run by > NARGS (North American Rock Garden Society), AGS (Alpine Garden Society, > SRGC (Scottish Rock Garden Club.) Their net is wide flung and includes > numerous plants that grow below the tree line. Superb sources for many > diverse plants, including geophytic genera. > > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 19:08:14 2011 Message-Id: <0F7B4D473DBB4D6AB85B96B05E17AD15@OwnerPC> From: "Joyce Miller" Subject: Botanic Gardens and Seed Exchanges Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 10:50:41 -0700 Nhu and others, Another fine seed exchange is the Alpine Garden Club of British Columbia. While its offering is not as extensive as the other three major exchanges, it is a source of Northwest Natives not always available in the other exchanges. Best wishes, Joyce Miller, Gresham Oregon, USA -----Original Message----- From: Nhu Nguyen Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 10:35 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Botanic Gardens and Seed Exchanges Judy, Let's not forget our very own BPS BX exchange. We are close to our 300th offering and it may reach that number by the end of the year! This means that from the 10 years that PBS has been in existence, we have provided an average of 30 offerings per year. As far as I know, all of this distribution came from the amazing and tireless efforts of Dell Sherk and his helpers. I think for a small society, we're doing very well and our BX is as healthy as ever with new and interesting material coming in all the time. Nhu On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 10:13 AM, Judy Glattstein wrote: > > As many members are well aware, the best seed exchanges are those run by > NARGS (North American Rock Garden Society), AGS (Alpine Garden Society, > SRGC (Scottish Rock Garden Club.) Their net is wide flung and includes > numerous plants that grow below the tree line. Superb sources for many > diverse plants, including geophytic genera. > > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 19:08:15 2011 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Amaryllis Forest Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 12:55:30 -0500 > >Could you resend the images in another format or via another link, please? > >I, for one, do not use Facebook. Thanks OK Found some good links: Try this and say "WOW" http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/bulbs/msg0400365013099.html or same site different link http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/amaryllishippeastrum/msg04002047404.html Enjoy Jim or compare to http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Lycoris -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 19:08:14 2011 Message-Id: From: Glen Lord Subject: Variegated Dioscorea Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 14:00:58 -0400 Jim, What is the species? batattas? Thanks Glen On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 12:09 PM, James Waddick wrote: > Dear ??? > Someone wanted bulbils of the hardy variegated Dioscorea. I > said I'd let them know, but who? > > I'll send some in to the BX, but want to make sure a few get > to THE PERSON. > > And did we ever actually decide what the correct species name > for this one? > > Best Jim W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Glen From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 19:23:00 2011 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: Amaryllis Forest Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 11:13:16 -0700 Incredible! Thanks for posting. Whereabouts in Thailand is this forest? It looks like a non-evergreen forest, lightly canopied. Was it planted recently? Andrew San Diego From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James Waddick > >Could you resend the images in another format or via another link, please? > >I, for one, do not use Facebook. Thanks OK Found some good links: Try this and say "WOW" http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/bulbs/msg0400365013099.html or same site different link http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/amaryllishippeastrum/msg04002047404. html Enjoy Jim or compare to http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Lycoris -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 19:23:00 2011 Message-Id: <8CE3BA2096BEC46-19F4-6C83A@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Amaryllis Forest Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 14:21:03 -0400 (EDT) I'm not going to say WOW, but rather, HOLY COW! Thanks for sharing - never seen anything like this before, even online. From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 19:38:00 2011 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20110907142330.04dc1da8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Amaryllis Forest Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 14:26:47 -0400 "WOW!" seems hardly adequate. I think those are a pink-ish form of H. puniceum. I had such a bulb, lo those many years ago. I lost it in the deep, deep freeze of ca. 1983. Jim Shields At 12:55 PM 9/7/2011 -0500, Jim W. wrote: > > >Could you resend the images in another format or via another link, > please? > > >I, for one, do not use Facebook. Thanks > >OK Found some good links: Try this and say "WOW" ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 20:08:04 2011 Message-Id: <0a2001cc6d8f$d9bd1420$8d373c60$@net> From: "Bracey Tiede" Subject: Botanic Gardens and Seed Exchanges Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 11:56:27 -0700 Another seed exchange is the Mediterranean Garden Society's for members. Contributions made from the five medit climates around the world. Details can be seen at http://www.mediterraneangardensociety.org/seedlist.html Cheers, Bracey San Jose CA -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Joyce Miller Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 10:51 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Cc: Pam Frost Subject: [pbs] Botanic Gardens and Seed Exchanges Nhu and others, Another fine seed exchange is the Alpine Garden Club of British Columbia. While its offering is not as extensive as the other three major exchanges, it is a source of Northwest Natives not always available in the other exchanges. Best wishes, Joyce Miller, Gresham Oregon, USA -----Original Message----- From: Nhu Nguyen Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 10:35 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Botanic Gardens and Seed Exchanges Judy, Let's not forget our very own BPS BX exchange. We are close to our 300th offering and it may reach that number by the end of the year! This means that from the 10 years that PBS has been in existence, we have provided an average of 30 offerings per year. As far as I know, all of this distribution came from the amazing and tireless efforts of Dell Sherk and his helpers. I think for a small society, we're doing very well and our BX is as healthy as ever with new and interesting material coming in all the time. Nhu On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 10:13 AM, Judy Glattstein wrote: > > As many members are well aware, the best seed exchanges are those run by > NARGS (North American Rock Garden Society), AGS (Alpine Garden Society, > SRGC (Scottish Rock Garden Club.) Their net is wide flung and includes > numerous plants that grow below the tree line. Superb sources for many > diverse plants, including geophytic genera. > > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 20:08:05 2011 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Amaryllis Forest Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 13:56:35 -0500 >Whereabouts in Thailand is this forest? It looks like a non-evergreen >forest, lightly canopied. Was it planted recently? Dear Andrew and all, Some place in Northern Thailand around Chiang Mai. That's all I know. The person who posted it originally is Paul Romijn owner of Amaryllis Royal Colors http://www.royalcolors.com He has a large Amaryllis album at: http://s43.photobucket.com/albums/e398/mkaea62/Amaryllis%20Parade/?action=view¤t=AmaryllisForest1.jpg Enjoy the colors. Best Jim -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 20:08:05 2011 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Variegated Dioscorea Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 13:59:44 -0500 >Jim, What is the species? batattas? Thanks Glen > Dear Glen, We had a discussion earlier and I don't think the name was decided. I got it as D. batatas. Some one (Jim McK ) thought it should be D. japonica. Not certain and I can't seem to locate the message. Any thoughts? Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 20:23:01 2011 Message-Id: <8CE3BA88626DF80-19F4-6D2A1@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Variegated Dioscorea Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 15:07:29 -0400 (EDT) I've owned one in the past, and it was labeled batatas, and it seemed to be. Jude From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 20:23:01 2011 Message-Id: <497DBB67-86ED-4310-91DF-1D819398B40D@evolution-plants.com> From: Tom Mitchell Subject: Veratrum germination Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 20:19:16 +0100 Alberto, In my relatively mild, maritime climate (SW England) winter temperatures rarely get below -10 degrees Centigrade and almost never stay there for more than a couple of days at a time. In this climate, Veratrum germination is extremely simple. I sow the seed on the surface of a soil-less compost, cover it with a cm of grit and leave the pot outdoors in a cold frame over winter. The seeds germinate after a single winter of stratification. The only proviso is that seed must be sown very fresh. Storage, even under optimum conditions, for even a few months apparently reduces viability to near zero. I have some anecdotal evidence that seed harvested slightly green, before the capsules naturally dehisce, germinates more readily than fully mature seed. Seed that has been stored for a few weeks will sometimes germinate after a second winter but it is much better to sow the seed straight from the parent plant. In a climate that does not experience frost, I would probably stratify the se eds in a bag of moist vermiculite in a fridge for three months, then plant and put on gentle bottom heat for germination. This might also be the best method for seeds that have crossed the equator. The two Californian endemics, V. insolitum and V. fimbriatum are obviously exceptions. I wouldn't let them near a fridge. Raising Veratrum seedlings beyond the germination stage is slightly trickier but only because they grow ve..rrrr...yyy slowly. I'm not exaggerating when I say that it takes 10 years to get V. album from seed to first flowering (V. maackii and its relatives are much quicker - two or three years). The mistake that I made when I was starting to grow them was to 'overpot', in other words to move them up into larger containers too quickly. These days I leave the seedlings in their original pot for a full growing season, liquid feeding to keep them growing as long as possible. I then pot them individually into 7cm pots and rarely lose a plant. Some species, particularly the former Melanthium species, suffer from an as yet unidentified fungal infection, which can kill the plant, especially if it is young, but I have never had this problem on the Section Veratrum (i.e. V. album and its allies) species. I agree with Jane that clumps of Veratrum can be divided almost with impunity in late summer or in spring just as they begin growth but they will tolerate division at any time of year. In my climate the plants go dormant a bit later than appears from the previous posts to be the case in the western USA and dormancy can also be postponed by liberal feeding. Veratrum are at their best, however, from late spring through to the end of their flowering period. I'll admit to being a little obsessive about this genus but I have a Veratrum in flower every day between late May and the end of August. I hope this helps and encourages yet more enthusiasts to come out of the woodwork. The typical reaction I get to a Veratrum in full flower is 'Wow! That's stunning...What is it?' Tom > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 00:46:46 +0000 > From: Alberto Castillo > Subject: Re: [pbs] Veratrum on the Wiki > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Tom and Jane: > > Under which conditions do Veratrums germinate? Does the seed must be prechilled in mild climates? Is there a delay or it germinates readily after being shed? > > The pleated foliage is so spectacular that it is worth the effort to start from seed. From your comments it must be slow to grow. > From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 20:38:02 2011 Message-Id: From: Tom Mitchell Subject: Seed Exchanges Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 20:30:25 +0100 I think the PBS BX is the best seed exchange in operation, bar none. My vote for second place would go the the Royal Horticultural Society (RHS) Lily Group, which has an incredible offering of accurately named Lilium seed every December but also a respectable list of other seed sent in by members. The group operates the sensible policy of sending the list to donors two weeks before anyone else gets it. Pour encourager les autres... Tom > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 10:35:56 -0700 > From: Nhu Nguyen > Subject: Re: [pbs] Botanic Gardens and Seed Exchanges > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Judy, > > Let's not forget our very own BPS BX exchange. We are close to our 300th > offering and it may reach that number by the end of the year! This means > that from the 10 years that PBS has been in existence, we have provided an > average of 30 offerings per year. As far as I know, all of this distribution > came from the amazing and tireless efforts of Dell Sherk and his helpers. I > think for a small society, we're doing very well and our BX is as healthy as > ever with new and interesting material coming in all the time. > > Nhu From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 20:38:02 2011 Message-Id: <0319CAEE39CE4817BD44E2DCF7A2E985@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: Amaryllis Forest Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 12:35:41 -0700 Dear James, Chiang Mai is at the center of the flower industry in northern Thailand. They have created incredible floral gardens there, not only in bulbs such as these but in major Floriades each year where orchids, bromeliads and many other plants developed for the floral industry are exhibited. I suspect that the trees shown are all planted and the entire area revegetated. Impressive to see, no doubt although its enjoyment depends on your taste. Looking at the annual temperature profile I imagine these displays occur before the wet season (April-October). Andrew San Diego From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James Waddick >Whereabouts in Thailand is this forest? It looks like a non-evergreen >forest, lightly canopied. Was it planted recently? Dear Andrew and all, Some place in Northern Thailand around Chiang Mai. That's all I know. The person who posted it originally is Paul Romijn owner of Amaryllis Royal Colors http://www.royalcolors.com He has a large Amaryllis album at: http://s43.photobucket.com/albums/e398/mkaea62/Amaryllis%20Parade/?action=vi ew¤t=AmaryllisForest1.jpg Enjoy the colors. Best Jim -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org Wed Sep 7 21:38:03 2011 Message-Id: From: Joshua Young Subject: Amaryllis Forest Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 16:28:09 -0400 Jim, I agree that these are a pink form of H. puniceum BUT NOT to be confused with the incredibly pink H. puniceum var. haywardii which is being reinstated as H. soratense later this year. Josh On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 2:26 PM, J.E. Shields wrote: > "WOW!" seems hardly adequate. > > I think those are a pink-ish form of H. puniceum. I had such a bulb, lo > those many years ago. I lost it in the deep, deep freeze of ca. 1983. > > Jim Shields > > At 12:55 PM 9/7/2011 -0500, Jim W. wrote: > > > >Could you resend the images in another format or via another link, > > please? > > > >I, for one, do not use Facebook. Thanks > > > >OK Found some good links: Try this and say "WOW" > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From joshuakyleyoung@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Joshua Young Subject: Hippeastrum roseum -- What Is It? Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 16:34:28 -0400 Dennis, I don't think H. roseum is a valid species, I think that the so called "roseum' was redescribed as Rhodophiala rosea and Hippeastrum 'Roseum' is actually some form of H. puniceum which has an incredibly large distribution from the Carribean Islands to Argentina. I would love it if you could share! Thanks ;) Josh On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Dennis Kramb wrote: > My understanding is it's a miniature pink Hippeastrum. But I can't > vouch for its authenticity as a species. > > I acquired 6 bulbs almost 2 years ago, but they haven't bloomed for me > yet. I killed some by overwatering last winter. And I think that > caused the others not to bloom. Anyway, I haven't checked on them in > months. If they're doing well I should have some extras to share with > you Josh. > > Dennis in Cincinnati > > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Joshua Young > wrote: > > Hippeastrum roseum, does anyone know if this is a valid species or a > > hybrid? I've seen it marked as a synonym for Hippeastrum stylosum as > well > > as Hippeastrum puniceum and called Hippeastrum equestre (syn. puniceum) > but > > what is it truly? Also, does anyone know where this plant is endemic? > > > > Does anyone know what the correct spot is for this plant? It seems > Thailand > > sells them like crazy on e-bay as whatever name they decided for the day! > > > > I've thought the plant seems to be a form of H. puniceum but I'm not > quite > > sure what the valid idea is.. > > > > Josh > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From joshuakyleyoung@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Joshua Young Subject: Amaryllis Forest Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 16:38:03 -0400 Jim, This photobucket account is actually from a friend of mine, her name is Maria and she cultivates many wonderful Hippeastrum and some incredibly beautiful hybrids! Josh On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 2:56 PM, James Waddick wrote: > >Whereabouts in Thailand is this forest? It looks like a non-evergreen > >forest, lightly canopied. Was it planted recently? > > Dear Andrew and all, > Some place in Northern Thailand around Chiang Mai. That's all > I know. The person who posted it originally is Paul Romijn owner of > Amaryllis Royal Colors http://www.royalcolors.com > > He has a large Amaryllis album at: > > http://s43.photobucket.com/albums/e398/mkaea62/Amaryllis%20Parade/?action=view¤t=AmaryllisForest1.jpg > > Enjoy the colors. Best Jim > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <410-22011937205651609@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: Botanic Gardens and Seed Exchanges Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 16:56:51 -0400 > > I remember when the New York Botanical Garden used to have an Index > Seminum, ditto the Leyden Botanic Garden. Budget cuts, staffing changes > - seem to be a thing of the past. > The Botanical Society of South Africa stopped offering seed from Kirstenbosch to US members years ago. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA From ksayce@willapabay.org Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: Veratrum offsets Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 14:08:50 -0700 From Jane's comment: it took about 7 years for the native species to grow from sowing to flowering in my former garden. It's better to propagate them from offsets, which at least in V. californicum are numerous. So Jane, how big should the offsets be? I am envisioning a muddy dig on the Columbia River to extract a few. Kathleen From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Another Seed Exchanges Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 16:18:52 -0500 Dear Friends, I have to put in a plug for the Species iris Group of North America (SIGNA) Seed Ex which has an extensive list of Iris and irids in late fall of each year. AS co-chairman of the exchange I am impressed with the range of offerings. See www.signa.org for info. Likewise the British Iris Society (BIS) has a splendid Seed Ex also covering the same materials. Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Variegated Dioscorea Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 21:26:42 +0000 Jim, it is not the spectacular Dioscorea discolor as this is not hardy. Is an image available? From michaelcmace@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <005601cc6da9$5da86780$18f93680$@com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Botanic Gardens and Seed Exchanges Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 14:59:06 -0700 Mark wrote: >>The Botanical Society of South Africa stopped offering seed from Kirstenbosch to US members years ago. Yes, and some of us are still steamed at them about it. I had been a member for years. The situation was not well handled -- they didn't even notify overseas members that they were stopping the seed offer; it just didn't come any more. Combine that with price increases, and overseas membership in the society went from being a reasonable expense to an incredibly costly way to get a magazine delivered months late. Mike San Jose, CA From voltaire@islandnet.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <109A8F63-4162-451F-B93C-239BF2371210@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Botanic Gardens and Seed Exchanges Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 15:01:27 -0700 On 7-Sep-11, at 1:56 PM, MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER wrote: The Botanical Society of South Africa stopped offering seed from Kirstenbosch to US members years ago. ================================= I'm a bit vague on this - I think giving free seeds for overseas members was stopped, but there is a catalogue of seeds one can buy. I applied for this, but didn't order any because of a caution in it based on the Rio Convention about not being allowed to select or hybridize their seeds. I think there was something about not selling the resulting plants, too. I occasionally select (though my climate usually does this without any effort on my part), hybridize and sell, so I didn't buy any Kirstenbosch seeds. Well, not from their catalogue, anyway. When I visit Kirstenbosch and buy seeds in their shop, there are no restrictions on what I do with the resulting plants. Diane Whitehead Canada From plantnutga@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Erin Grace Subject: Amaryllis Forest Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 19:06:38 -0400 ok my best comment is HOLY MOLY!!! Amazing! On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Joshua Young wrote: > Jim, > > This photobucket account is actually from a friend of mine, her name is > Maria and she cultivates many wonderful Hippeastrum and some incredibly > beautiful hybrids! > > Josh > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 2:56 PM, James Waddick wrote: > > > >Whereabouts in Thailand is this forest? It looks like a non-evergreen > > >forest, lightly canopied. Was it planted recently? > > > > Dear Andrew and all, > > Some place in Northern Thailand around Chiang Mai. That's all > > I know. The person who posted it originally is Paul Romijn owner of > > Amaryllis Royal Colors http://www.royalcolors.com > > > > He has a large Amaryllis album at: > > > > > http://s43.photobucket.com/albums/e398/mkaea62/Amaryllis%20Parade/?action=view¤t=AmaryllisForest1.jpg > > > > Enjoy the colors. Best Jim > > -- > > Dr. James W. Waddick > > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > > USA > > Ph. 816-746-1949 > > Zone 5 Record low -23F > > Summer 100F + > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From eagle.85@verizon.net Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <6418CE14-F326-432A-9208-8970C235FE1B@verizon.net> From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Variegated Veltheimia Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 16:29:43 -0700 This variegated Veltheimia has been in my collection for 10 to 12 years (NO VIRUS!!!) It is rather slow in producing offsets, but it is a "show stopper" when it is blooming! Regards, Doug Westfall From eagle.85@verizon.net Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <5942EEC5-3C23-4730-93D3-86F132797C3A@verizon.net> From: Douglas Westfall Subject: Variegated Veltheimia Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 16:38:30 -0700 I'm not certain that the "image" stayed with the email. Here it is "again" I hope! Doug Westfall From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Veratrum offsets Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 00:06:06 +0000 Kathleen, it sounds like you are describing really chilly environs. Is that so? From santoury@aol.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <8CE3BD2F4BA865D-158C-39C62@webmail-m003.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Variegated Dioscorea Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 20:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Dioscorea discolor is naturally variegated while D. batatas is normally green, with a variegated form out there. From klazina1@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <4E6808A7.1030307@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: Variegated Veltheimia Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 12:13:27 +1200 Can't open the attachments, Doug. Ina On 8/09/2011 11:29 a.m., Douglas Westfall wrote: > This variegated Veltheimia has been in my collection for 10 to 12 > years (NO VIRUS!!!) > > It is rather slow in producing offsets, but it is a "show stopper" > when it is blooming! > > > Regards, Doug Westfall > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Variegated Dioscorea Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 00:15:09 +0000 Thanks, Jude. Are we talking about a Dioscorea or Ipomoea batatas? From gmaculata@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Glen Lord Subject: Variegated Dioscorea Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 20:30:02 -0400 Dioscorea On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Alberto Castillo wrote: > > Thanks, Jude. Are we talking about a Dioscorea or Ipomoea batatas? > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Glen From santoury@aol.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <8CE3BDE8D103EF6-219C-7025A@webmail-d036.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Variegated Dioscorea Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 21:34:14 -0400 (EDT) Hi, Dioscorea batatas, and not Ipomoea batatas (of which there are multiple, nice variegated clones.) From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Veratrum offsets Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 18:39:30 -0700 Kathleen asked, At 02:08 PM 9/7/2011, you wrote: > >From Jane's comment: > >it took about 7 years for >the native species to grow from sowing to flowering in my former >garden. It's better to propagate them from offsets, which at least in >V. californicum are numerous. > >So Jane, how big should the offsets be? I am envisioning a muddy dig >on the Columbia River to extract a few. Usually in my plants the main central "bulb" is about the size of an elongated grapefruit, with offsets of various sizes down to about lemon size. Digging them is not easy as they tend to be deep and very tenacious. Be careful not to break them and don't try to overwinter them in pots, put them right into the ground. Good luck! Jane From hansennursery@coosnet.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Robin Hansen" Subject: Botanic Gardens and Seed Exchanges Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 21:00:23 -0700 Judy, I've been a member of the Cyclamen Society for 25 years, and yes, there was a bit of difficulty for a couple years. However, it's free and easy to get the Small Lots of Seed Permits to send to the Society. Yes, there are a couple little hoops to go through, i.e. a list of all seed shipped by them to you has to be in the packet and the packet has to go to a port of entry for inspection. But that's really all there is to it. You do need to renew the permit every three years, again, no fuss, no muss. It has worked quite reliably. I have heard some complaints about ports of entry on the east coast, but my seed comes through Seattle and they have actually gone so far as to track me down by phone when the packet had more than 50?envelopes of seed, and ask!! me which ones I could do without. To say that I was astonished is putting it mildly, but I thanked the officer profusely for taking the time to call me! E-mail me privately if you want to know the necessary procedures. Robin Hansen robin@hansennursery.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Glattstein To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 10:13 AM Subject: [pbs] Botanic Gardens and Seed Exchanges I remember when the New York Botanical Garden used to have an Index Seminum, ditto the Leyden Botanic Garden. Budget cuts, staffing changes - seem to be a thing of the past. I used to belong to the Cyclamen Society, in large part for their seed exchange. USDA rules made it so onerous for them that I was told members from the USA could no longer participate. Someone offered to collate requests, receive on bulk shipment and resend but that never worked out. As many members are well aware, the best seed exchanges are those run by NARGS (North American Rock Garden Society), AGS (Alpine Garden Society, SRGC (Scottish Rock Garden Club.) Their net is wide flung and includes numerous plants that grow below the tree line. Superb sources for many diverse plants, including geophytic genera. Still, it is a pity that botanic gardens with Index Seminum are a vanishing / vanished option. Judy in New Jersey where the last 3 days have produced over 4 inches of rain, no end in sight as forecasts for the remainder of the week are for more rain - and this is not even a hurricane. We need better distribution, would love to send some of this to Texas where it would be received with delight _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3878 - Release Date: 09/05/11 From marygastil@yahoo.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <1315459075.6965.YahooMailNeo@web161518.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Mary Gastil Subject: UCSB collection thinned Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 22:17:55 -0700 (PDT) On 6 September Lee Poulsen wrote of the Hippeastrum collection at the UCSB greenhouse. I used to visit the UCSB lath house at lunch times in the 1990's.  I saw some Hippeastrum bloom but some never bloomed.  I took many photos (not digital back then).  When they thinned out the collection drastically to make room for the new greenhouse many of us took home pots of bulbs.  The one Hippeastrum I took was unlabeled and has never bloomed for me, just leaves.  But if someone wants it they are welcome to it, providing they promise to keep propagating the Lapeirusia laxa 'cruenta' which grow as weeds in the same pot.  This "weed" stowed away with some pots that came from UCI to UCSB many years ago.  I collect and spread the seed which grows readily here.  The blue 'cruenta' bloom at a different time than the white and orangey L. laxa so I dont think they ever cross.  Every so often an unexpected bloom appears in the back yard.  The "teaching garden" that got dug up and dumped on the free plant pile meant those bulbs were completely unlabeled and since some were in leaf had to be planted immediately without even taking time to photograph the bulbs.  The Physostegia that stowed away with those clumps of dirt is blooming now.  And the white A. belladonna just now sending up stalks were rescued from that same pile. The Velthemia held out for years then got frosted. The Homeria and the tiny Zepher rain lilies died, Im ashamed to admit.  That must have been years ago because the Dierama I took then are 2-ft-wide clumps now, blooming 6 feet tall every year, with generations of their offspring scattered around the yard.   - gastil From btankers@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Boyce Tankersley Subject: Botanic Gardens and Seed Exchanges Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 09:04:39 -0500 Hi All: As several threads have indicated, the role of botanic gardens has changed when it comes to distribution of seeds/excess plants. At Chicago Botanic Garden we chose to discontinue the *Index Seminum* due to concerns some of our scientists studying invasive species had - that seeds of our native plants would become invasive in other parts of the world (and they provided some examples to illustrate their point). The other concern expressed with seeds from *Index Seminum* is that a majority of them were collected from plant s in cultivation. The female parent is known but in many cases the seedlings were hybrids with other species. In my home garden that may not be an issue but in a living museum the idea of passing off a hybrid as an exemplar of the species was very troubling and creates major problems with captive breeding efforts to generate seeds for re-introduction. While we still receive *Index Seminum* from other botanic gardens their numbers have been drastically reduced over the last ten years. In some cases because of budget cuts and staffing shortages but in many cases due to concerns related to the Convention of Biological Diversity (CBD) and invasive plants. Fortunately Chicago Botanic Garden and the Morton Arboretum do have a mechanism for making rare and unusual ornamental plants available through a partnership with commercial nurseries called the Chicagoland Grows(TM) program. A portion of the proceeds are returned to the Garden/Arboretum to help support on-staff plant breeders and plant collection trips. Unfortunately, none of the participating nurseries are really focused on producing geophytes but excess bulbs/plants are frequently offered for sale through the CBG 'A Rare Affair' auction offered every 2 years. If folks on this list are interested, I can send a list of geophytes in 2013 that will be offered for auction in early June of that year - I believe we have, or are trying, to implement ways that people who can't physically attend the auction can bid by email/text. Proceeds usually are dedicated to supporting one or more of the Gardens Science and Education programs. Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 > From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <410-22011948143949937@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: Botanic Gardens and Seed Exchanges Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 10:39:49 -0400 > > While we still receive *Index Seminum* from other botanic gardens their > numbers have been drastically reduced over the last ten years. In some > cases because of budget cuts and staffing shortages but in many cases due to > concerns related to the Convention of Biological Diversity (CBD) and > invasive plants. > Folly of course...the treaty has never (20 years or so) been ratified in the US and the legal enforcement mechanisms are ...what...nonexistant. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina US From kjblack@pacbell.net Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <1315497251.99871.YahooMailClassic@web80402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: whats blooming week of Sept 4th - Haemanthus barkerae and Nerine angulata Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 08:54:11 -0700 (PDT) My first bloom of H.barkerae ... somewhat surprised as I just obtained the bulb last year and it is quite small:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6127513900/in/photostream   Also, Nerine angulata.  A reliable bloomer and seeder for me, but I have problems getting the seedlings to make it to their second year <-(.     http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6127513574/in/photostream   Ken Blackford San Diego  From jshields@indy.net Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20110908125858.0333fe70@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 13:06:24 -0400 I gave a lick-and-a-promise summary of conservation concerns, somewhat reflecting those expressed in this forum recently, in my blog today: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Blogs/Garden/index.html It is obviously slanted to my own particular interests. I did not deal with one notion of conservation of rare and endangered plants (or at least bulbs) that we talked about, namely conservation by propagation and distribution. I think this is an idea that needs to be seriously developed. Dynamic preservation as opposed to static conservation. Active vs. passive. I'm not prepared to deal with this idea adequately on my own, but I think someone, somewhere, needs to promulgate this approach and it needs to be introduced into the serious conservation discussions. Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From btankers@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Boyce Tankersley Subject: Botanic Gardens and Seed Exchanges Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 12:21:28 -0500 Hi Mark: You are correct, the USA has never signed the CBD - but most of the countries that American botanic gardens collect plants in have signed. To facilitate continuing collecting (and in some cases invitations to collect), many (I realize there are exceptions) American botanical gardens have voluntarily 'adopted' the CBD. This approach (hopefully) protects our institutions from foreign governments suing us if/when the CBD is adopted by the USA. As long as we aren't a signatory we are immune from any related lawsuits. In the spirit of CBD, we are very careful to make sure our host country receives compensation in the forms of training for their staff, transfer of technology hardware and software, equivalent collecting opportunities for their staff in the USA, etc. Sort of the 'golden rule' put into practice. Boyce Tankersley On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 9:39 AM, MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER < markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net> > > > Folly of course...the treaty has never (20 years or so) been ratified in > the US and the legal enforcement mechanisms are ...what...nonexistant. > > Mark Mazer > Hertford, North Carolina US > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From tom@evolution-plants.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tom Mitchell Subject: Convention on Biological Diversity Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 23:39:51 +0100 Hi Boyce, Thanks for bravely sticking your neck out and defending the CBD and the demise of your Index Seminum. Preaching to the choir - guilty as charged - can be satisfying but doesn't achieve anything and so it's helpful to hear the argument for the defence. Please don't take the following attempt to rebut some of your arguments personally. It's intended in the spirit of robust but friendly debate. Do you really believe that the exchange of seeds among botanic gardens and private gardeners creates such a risk of inadvertently releasing invasive plant species that these concerns outweigh the benefit to ex situ conservation of sharing rare plant species among many institutions and individuals? If so, why not go the whole hog and destroy your entire living library for fear of accidentally permitting another one to escape. And, for that matter, why stop at Chicago Botanic Garden? Let's bulldoze Missouri, the Arnold Arboretum and Kew while we're at it. That should certainly reduce the risk of plant invasion. And if you are concerned about moving potentially invasive species among countries, why would you encourage your scientists to go collect them in other countries and bring them back? Are these the same scientists who expressed concerns about the Index Seminum? Isn't this a case of double standards? When I visit Kew (surrounded by impressive brick walls) I can't help noti cing that birds and wind are not much troubled by these barriers but I can't say I've noticed any invading plant species on nearby Richmond Common. Perhaps they are held at bay by the (deliberately introduced and lovingly protected) deer. The local waterways are being undermined, however, by the rapidly growing population of Chinese Mitten Crabs (see here http://www.nhm.ac.uk/nature-online/life/other-invertebrates/chinese-mitten-crabs/), introduced in ships' ballast a century ago. Perhaps we should ban shipping too? Surely your scientists could use their time more constructively by helping nurserymen (we're not very well educated and need all the help we can get) understand which plants are most likely to become invasive? Come off it! A tiny minority of plants is potentially invasive and it seems downright silly to argue from the precautionary principle that all seed exchanges should cease without reflection on the adverse consequences. Your point about distributing seed as a true exemplar of the species when it may be of hybrid origin is well made. In the nursery trade this practice is known as fraud and is frowned upon. If anyone is in a position to hand pollinate and distribute authentic seed of rare species it is surely botanic gardens. If botanic gardens don't have the resources (those pesky budget cuts), why not outsource the task to passionate and knowledgeable private individuals who would be glad to render the service for free. Oh wait, I forgot that those individuals might fail to send a cheque to the government of the country where the ancestors of the plants once grew. Which brings me on to the Convention on Biological Diversity (CBD) with which you voluntarily comply. The CBD originated in a proposal by the IUCN to enshrine in international law three laudable objectives. 1. A general obligation for all states to conserve biological diversity; 2. the principle of freedom of access to wild genetic resources; and 3. the principle that the cost of conservation should be shared equitably by all nations. The second objective bit the dust as soon as the negotiations started and the bickering centred mainly around what 'equitably' means. As Mark Mazer pointed out, the USA sensibly declined to sign up to the Convention, perhaps weary of bearing the financial burden of the developed world's collective guilt. Whereas Kew or Munich BG, say, have no option but to comply, you do. The law of unintended consequences almost always scuppers the best intentions of law makers attempting to tinker with any system as complex as international trade. And, to be honest, I don't think the intentions were all that good to start with, driven as they were by commercial not conservation imperatives. Developing countries routinely ignore their 'obligation' to conserve biological diversity when it conflicts with their desire to, umm, develop. And why shouldn't they? It is surely patronising in the extreme to preach abstinence from development from a pulpit located in a country where nature is confined to a few small, carefully managed preserves. Because objective two was replaced in the CBD with its exact opposite (the principle that sovereign states have exclusive rights of access to 'their' wild genetic resources) the Convention has had the effect of making it harder, not easier, for states to comply with objective one. This is because every single transaction involving access to genetic resources in another state that has ratified the treaty has to be separately negotiated in good faith. Understandably and completely predictably most institutions and virtually no private individuals can be bothered. The results are that the CBD is ignored by almost everyone and that botanic gardens such as Chicago's spend an absurd proportion of their shrinking budgets negotiating what 'equitably' means with the governments of countries in which they want to collect plants. even more absurdly, they are forced to sign documents that prevent them allowing the propagation for commercial purposes of the plant material they collect. Bu t wait, I thought the CBD was meant to enhance the conservation of biological diversity, including, explicitly, ex situ conservation? Wouldn't propagation by passionate, knowledgeable.... Oh forget it. Boyce, I sincerely sympathise with the difficulties that arise from the conflict between your position as an official of an establishment organisation and your evident desire to share and thereby conserve plant diversity. But if establishment organisations don't start to push back against fatuous and counterproductive treaties like the CBD, we are most definitely lost. Best wishes, Tom > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 09:04:39 -0500 > From: Boyce Tankersley > Subject: Re: [pbs] Botanic Gardens and Seed Exchanges > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi All: > > As several threads have indicated, the role of botanic gardens has changed > when it comes to distribution of seeds/excess plants. > > At Chicago Botanic Garden we chose to discontinue the *Index Seminum* due to > concerns some of our scientists studying invasive species had - that seeds > of our native plants would become invasive in other parts of the world (and > they provided some examples to illustrate their point). > > The other concern expressed with seeds from *Index Seminum* is that a > majority of them were collected from plant s in cultivation. The female > parent is known but in many cases the seedlings were hybrids with other > species. In my home garden that may not be an issue but in a living museum > the idea of passing off a hybrid as an exemplar of the species was very > troubling and creates major problems with captive breeding efforts to > generate seeds for re-introduction. > > While we still receive *Index Seminum* from other botanic gardens their > numbers have been drastically reduced over the last ten years. In some > cases because of budget cuts and staffing shortages but in many cases due to > concerns related to the Convention of Biological Diversity (CBD) and > invasive plants. > > Fortunately Chicago Botanic Garden and the Morton Arboretum do have a > mechanism for making rare and unusual ornamental plants available through a > partnership with commercial nurseries called the Chicagoland Grows(TM) > program. A portion of the proceeds are returned to the Garden/Arboretum to > help support on-staff plant breeders and plant collection trips. > Unfortunately, none of the participating nurseries are really focused on > producing geophytes but excess bulbs/plants are frequently offered for sale > through the CBG 'A Rare Affair' auction offered every 2 years. If folks on > this list are interested, I can send a list of geophytes in 2013 that will > be offered for auction in early June of that year - I believe we have, or > are trying, to implement ways that people who can't physically attend the > auction can bid by email/text. Proceeds usually are dedicated to supporting > one or more of the Gardens Science and Education programs. > > Boyce Tankersley > Director of Living Plant Documentation > Chicago Botanic Garden > 1000 Lake Cook Road > Glencoe, IL 60022 > > >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 10:39:49 -0400 > From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Botanic Gardens and Seed Exchanges > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Message-ID: <410-22011948143949937@earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > >> >> While we still receive *Index Seminum* from other botanic gardens their >> numbers have been drastically reduced over the last ten years. In some >> cases because of budget cuts and staffing shortages but in many cases due > to >> concerns related to the Convention of Biological Diversity (CBD) and >> invasive plants. >> > > Folly of course...the treaty has never (20 years or so) been ratified in > the US and the legal enforcement mechanisms are ...what...nonexistant. > > Mark Mazer > Hertford, North Carolina US > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 08:54:11 -0700 (PDT) > From: Ken > Subject: [pbs] whats blooming week of Sept 4th - Haemanthus barkerae > and Nerine angulata > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: > <1315497251.99871.YahooMailClassic@web80402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > My first bloom of H.barkerae ... somewhat surprised as I just obtained the bulb last year and it is quite small: > ? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6127513900/in/photostream > ? > Also, Nerine angulata.? A reliable bloomer and seeder for me, but I have problems getting the seedlings to make it to their second year <-(.?? > ? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6127513574/in/photostream > ? > Ken Blackford > San Diego? > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 104, Issue 19 > ************************************ From maxwithers@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Max Withers Subject: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 20:42:23 -0700 I have been following this exchange with great interest on a newly-purchased smartphone during breaks in a lengthy jury service. Thank you all for entertaining me! I will resist ponderous pronouncements about the ephemeral nature of all human endeavor -- individual or institutional -- and just note that even Kew is only a few hundred years old. How many plants from the 1789 Hortus Kewensis are growing there today? Of course our work as individuals is even more transitory than an institution like Kew or Kirstenbosch, and our motives more suspect, or at least opaque. And scattering a plant around some gardens is no substitute for preserving natural breeding populations. Since that last goal is simply unrealistic in many (almost all?) cases, what we might call the distributed model of ex situ plant conservation that has been so eloquently defended here has to be considered the best chance for the survival of endangered and threatened species in any form at all. I suspect that funding/staffing shortfalls as much as an ivory tower mentality are to blame, but perhaps I am too charitable. Off to contemplate my own mortality, Max Withers Oakland CA From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Book Marks Finally available. Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 23:39:29 -0500 Dear Friends, A few weeks ago PBS produced its very first color promotional materials, a set of four color bookmarks illustrating some favorite bulbous subjects. They are a Parrot Tulip, a Tecophilea, a Fritillaria and a Calochortus. All of them are gorgeous and useful to mark books, of course, but very informative too. We have sent out several dozen to bulb related meetings and every new member who joins PBS gets one in the introductory materials. Members of this list have shown an interest in getting these book marks. We'd like to make them widely available to promote the organization, this elist and recruit new members. So if you'd like a single book mark (no choice) send your name and mailing address ( US only) by private email to the PBS Treasurer ArnoldTrachenberg at <arnold140@verizon.net>. He'll send you one book mark FREE of charge. If you'd like a set of 4 different book marks, send Arnold a $2 payment to PayPal along with you full name and mailing address. Order more than one set of four in multiples of 4 at the same price per set i.e 2 sets for a $4 PayPal payment, etc. Foreign requests will be dealt with individually by country. Write Arnold before sending any payment. Arnold's PBS PayPal account is Arnold140@verizon.net If you have any official bulb related organization that you would like to promote PBS at a meeting, contact Arnold for bulk supplies. These are beautiful useful and fun to share. Enjoy Jim W and for Arnold T. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From santoury@aol.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <8CE3CCA1577B976-3010-C5910@webmail-m151.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Book Marks Finally available. Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 01:40:14 -0400 (EDT) I have seen them, and they are gorgeous - well worth it! Grab some! From ceridwen@internode.on.net Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <28D2D765-DA07-4275-9126-3A740F2183BA@internode.on.net> From: Ceridwen Lloyd Subject: Book Marks Finally available. Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 18:09:34 +0930 Where, by the way, the slugs have truncated ALL of my fritillaria except for affinis, Lilium grayi is just peeping forth (I am zone 9 with 650mm annual rainfall so this is a somewhat optimistic planting) and the Nomocharis have refused to show themselves. I can however grow a ghastly acid-yellow oxalis, locally known as "soursobs", in vast quantities. Oh well. Sent from my iPhone On 09/09/2011, at 2:09 PM, James Waddick wrote: > Dear Friends, > > A few weeks ago PBS produced its very first color promotional > materials, a set of four color bookmarks illustrating some favorite > bulbous subjects. They are a Parrot Tulip, a Tecophilea, a > Fritillaria and a Calochortus. All of them are gorgeous and useful to > mark books, of course, but very informative too. > > We have sent out several dozen to bulb related meetings and > every new member who joins PBS gets one in the introductory > materials. Members of this list have shown an interest in getting > these book marks. > > We'd like to make them widely available to promote the > organization, this elist and recruit new members. > > So if you'd like a single book mark (no choice) send your > name and mailing address ( US only) by private email to the PBS > Treasurer ArnoldTrachenberg at > <arnold140@verizon.net>. He'll > send you one book mark FREE of charge. > > If you'd like a set of 4 different book marks, send Arnold a > $2 payment to PayPal along with you full name and mailing address. > > Order more than one set of four in multiples of 4 at the same > price per set i.e 2 sets for a $4 PayPal payment, etc. > > Foreign requests will be dealt with individually by country. > Write Arnold before sending any payment. > > Arnold's PBS PayPal account is Arnold140@verizon.net > > > If you have any official bulb related organization that you > would like to promote PBS at a meeting, contact Arnold for bulk > supplies. > > These are beautiful useful and fun to share. Enjoy > Jim W and for Arnold T. > > > > > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pcamusa@hotmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: Book Marks Finally available. Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 09:50:43 -0400 Hi Jim and Arnold- Would it be feasible to make the bookmarks a continuing item on the PBX? Regards, Phil > Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 23:39:29 -0500 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > From: jwaddick@kc.rr.com > Subject: [pbs] Book Marks Finally available. > > Dear Friends, > > A few weeks ago PBS produced its very first color promotional > materials, a set of four color bookmarks illustrating some favorite > bulbous subjects. They are a Parrot Tulip, a Tecophilea, a > Fritillaria and a Calochortus. All of them are gorgeous and useful to > mark books, of course, but very informative too. > > We have sent out several dozen to bulb related meetings and > every new member who joins PBS gets one in the introductory > materials. Members of this list have shown an interest in getting > these book marks. > > We'd like to make them widely available to promote the > organization, this elist and recruit new members. > > So if you'd like a single book mark (no choice) send your > name and mailing address ( US only) by private email to the PBS > Treasurer ArnoldTrachenberg at > <arnold140@verizon.net>. He'll > send you one book mark FREE of charge. > > If you'd like a set of 4 different book marks, send Arnold a > $2 payment to PayPal along with you full name and mailing address. > > Order more than one set of four in multiples of 4 at the same > price per set i.e 2 sets for a $4 PayPal payment, etc. > > Foreign requests will be dealt with individually by country. > Write Arnold before sending any payment. > > Arnold's PBS PayPal account is Arnold140@verizon.net > > > If you have any official bulb related organization that you > would like to promote PBS at a meeting, contact Arnold for bulk > supplies. > > These are beautiful useful and fun to share. Enjoy > Jim W and for Arnold T. > > > > > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From mwalnik@wodip.opole.pl Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Marek Walnik" Subject: Book Marks Finally available. Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 17:25:23 +0200 And what about all those bulb enthusiast from the other side of the Globe, I mean Central Europe? Marek W. (PL) -----Oryginalna wiadomość----- From: James Waddick Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 6:39 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Book Marks Finally available. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <1315584462.23527.YahooMailClassic@web86303.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Book Marks Finally available. Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 17:07:42 +0100 (BST) The AGS in  the UK has some good bookmarks if you don't mind a few non bulbous flowers too.   http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/sales/books/merchandise/Set+of+Bookmarks+/237/   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England Killed 7 lily beetles today. I thought they were over for this year. --- On Fri, 9/9/11, Marek Walnik wrote: And what about all those bulb enthusiast from the other side of the Globe, I mean Central Europe? Marek W. (PL) From btankers@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Boyce Tankersley Subject: Convention on Biological Diversity Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 14:48:39 -0500 Hi Tom: You make some valid points and I appreciate you sharing your perspective with me. At botanical and horticultural society meetings I have made and responded to many of the concerns you have expressed. With respect to *Index semina*, in CBG's case, we are pursuing a conservative approach recommended by our scientific staff with expertise in these areas (seed biology and invasive species). The challenge that we (and others) have not overcome yet is identifying the complex characteristics that lead to invasions - before they happen (we are pretty good - after the fact). The predictive models are simply not that accurate (and we have only focused on our regional climatic conditions). I shudder to think of trying to develop a model that could evaluate invasiveness with a high degree of accuracy for all climatic conditions. At the same time, staff with responsibility for building and maintaining genetic diversity within our collections continue to collect plants. The plants we bring back are evaluated for a number of years before they make it into the general collections in an effort to avoid bringing invasive plants into the USA. The role of botanic gardens and arboreta as biological arks can not be overstated. *Ex situ* collections are the 'last best hope' when all else fails. CBG's approach to the CBD has been developed over many years based upon experiences overseas and is a reflection of the current state of affairs - if we want to collect in these countries we have to obey their laws. Their laws, in most cases, are based on one or more interpretations of the CBD. So the voluntary aspect (USA hasn't signed) is not really voluntary once we start to work beyond the USA. I believe there are meetings where scientists and governments discuss changes/improvements to the CBD so there is hope that some of the less effective aspects will be modified. Each botanic garden or arboretum, within the confines of national and international law, is free to adopt the approach(s) that best fits what they think is important. Perspectives within the botanic garden community differ widely as you can imagine with 450 institutions in the USA and 2,300 Worldwide. It has been heartening to read the comments related to the importance so many on the Pacific Bulb Society listserve place on conservation of rare and endangered bulbs and the efforts taken at your own expense to do whatever you can. After reading through the posts, I think we all realize none of us really have all of the answers yet, but with so many enthusiastic, dedicated and intelligent people working towards the same goal there is hope. Many thanks, Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 > > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Convention on Biological Diversity Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 14:59:56 -0500 Dear Boyce, I was waiting for someone to respond to Tom's passionate reply. I hope you are not bruised and bleeding after his hearty lashing. I am sure it IS NOT personal, but reflects a strong reaction to the professional botanic garden staffs* in many locations around the world and not just that of the Chicago BG. Dear Tom, Bravo. I think your comments are very heartfelt and worth pursuing. You as a professional nursery owner (mostly) and plant collector are really caught between the 'authorities' who can impose well meaning regulations that only slightly affect their own limitations, but do grievous harm to your commercial pursuit and activities. Odd that both sides want the same sort of 'conservation', but see things so very differently. The CBD is well meaning, but distorted almost from Day 1 and remaining problematical. Whether you conform to it or defy it , the results seem the same: denying some experts the right to grow and distribute plants that would benefit from such propagation and distribution. In situ conservation may be impossible for many organism, but denying their propagation and distribution from captive material only exacerbates the situation. The rarer the plant, the higher the value until the last individual is wildly precious, but has no value if it cannot be propagated and sold. Surely there are some middle grounds. Some might suggest that an organization like PBS or NARGS or AGS or even AHS and RHS campaign to resolve the issue of propagation and distribution, but there seem to be complicities within complicities and well meaning do-gooders preventing all the most desirable results. I don't have a clue to even an approach to an answer, but the current situation seems foolish at best. Tom and Boyce can you suggest the first step to resolve this? A step that shows cooperation between both the regulators and authorities, and the growers and gardeners who might implement some changes? Best Jim W. * as well as national regulatory agencies, greed and the status quo -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From robertpries@embarqmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <1737569948.967702.1315600541420.JavaMail.root@md08.embarq.synacor.com> From: Robert Pries Subject: Convention on Biological Diversity Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 16:35:41 -0400 (EDT) I believe all sides in this conversation wish to preserve diversity, but It seems to me the real problems are habitat loss and a lack of knowledge of the natural world. Even though our individual solutions cause each other a good deal of frustration and extra work our real enemy is ignorance. If I remember correctly The National Gardening Association claims that 60% of Americans have Gardening as a hobby. But they also speak about the average gardener spending on average $70 a year on plants. Personally I would not think of those people as gardeners. I fear that gardening is slowly dying. Appreciating nature is hard for those that are never really exposed to it and that seems to be a larger cohort all the time. Plant Societies have largely been declining. The idea of a liberal education seems to be disappearing. Despite all these negatives I do think the situation is retreivable. But we need to find more and better ways of helping each other and bringing more people to plants. I am constantly searching for ideas along these lines. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Waddick" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, September 9, 2011 3:59:56 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Convention on Biological Diversity Dear Boyce, I was waiting for someone to respond to Tom's passionate reply. I hope you are not bruised and bleeding after his hearty lashing. I am sure it IS NOT personal, but reflects a strong reaction to the professional botanic garden staffs* in many locations around the world and not just that of the Chicago BG. Dear Tom, Bravo. I think your comments are very heartfelt and worth pursuing. You as a professional nursery owner (mostly) and plant collector are really caught between the 'authorities' who can impose well meaning regulations that only slightly affect their own limitations, but do grievous harm to your commercial pursuit and activities. Odd that both sides want the same sort of 'conservation', but see things so very differently. The CBD is well meaning, but distorted almost from Day 1 and remaining problematical. Whether you conform to it or defy it , the results seem the same: denying some experts the right to grow and distribute plants that would benefit from such propagation and distribution. In situ conservation may be impossible for many organism, but denying their propagation and distribution from captive material only exacerbates the situation. The rarer the plant, the higher the value until the last individual is wildly precious, but has no value if it cannot be propagated and sold. Surely there are some middle grounds. Some might suggest that an organization like PBS or NARGS or AGS or even AHS and RHS campaign to resolve the issue of propagation and distribution, but there seem to be complicities within complicities and well meaning do-gooders preventing all the most desirable results. I don't have a clue to even an approach to an answer, but the current situation seems foolish at best. Tom and Boyce can you suggest the first step to resolve this? A step that shows cooperation between both the regulators and authorities, and the growers and gardeners who might implement some changes? Best Jim W. * as well as national regulatory agencies, greed and the status quo -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From voltaire@islandnet.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Convention on Biological Diversity Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 13:54:47 -0700 > Tom and Boyce can you suggest the first step to resolve this? > A step that shows cooperation between both the regulators and > authorities, and the growers and gardeners who might implement some > changes? > > Best Jim W. Two newly discovered rare plants that seem to have been treated ideally to me (though someone with more knowledge might consider otherwise), are from small remote areas - a conifer from Australia, and a clivia from South Africa. In both cases, the plants were protected in their original habitats, but were propagated and disseminated around the world in an amazingly short time. No need for piracy. No need for immense wealth to own one. Maybe this would work only if a plant's range is severely restricted and remote, and the plants themselves easy to propagate. Diane Whitehead From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Convention on Biological Diversity Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2011 16:16:10 -0700 Robert wrote, >If I remember correctly The National Gardening Association claims that 60% of Americans have Gardening as a hobby. But they also speak about the average gardener spending on average $70 a year on >plants. Personally I would not think of those people as gardeners. I fear that gardening is slowly dying. I believe that statistic includes food gardeners, whom we should not dismiss even if they spend their $70 on seeds. Their efforts help to protect the environment by encouraging local consumption. Anybody want some zucchini? Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From michaelcmace@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <000901cc6f71$828825d0$87987170$@com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Growers as allies Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 21:24:16 -0700 The discussion of saving endangered plants has been fascinating, and I'm especially grateful that folks have kept it respectful despite strong feelings. I'm learning a lot. One theme in the discussion is that many growers (both individuals and nursery professionals) want to participate in the mission of preserving biodiversity, and are frustrated because they're treated as part of the problem rather than part of the solution. I feel that way too. I've been running into a similar situation with the pending invasive species regulations in the US. The new restrictions on plant imports that the US is putting into place are based on the assumption that there is a large supply of attractive ornamental plants outside the US that, if imported, could become an invasive threat. There's a lot of focus on protecting the borders against this threat by placing import bans on plants that have been reported invasive elsewhere in the world. However, the first set of species proposed for the ban last month ended up showing a very different situation. *Every one* of the ornamental species proposed for a ban turns out to already be present in the US; the government just wasn't aware of it. And not just present -- in most cases the species have been here for more than a century, distributed through nurseries and seed exchanges, written up in books and magazines. The US government was just looking at the wrong info sources. So there's a lesson here for the record-keepers in the federal government. I've communicated with them about it, and the dialog has been very positive (thanks to Bill Aley for setting that up). But I think there's a deeper lesson that we all need to absorb: Any plant species that's attractive enough that someone introduced it into Australia or the UK or some other part of Europe is also attractive enough that people have brought it into the US, repeatedly and enthusiastically, for many decades. So at least in the US, the issue isn't really about guarding the borders; it's mostly about assessing the invasiveness of things already here, making sure they are grown responsibly, and flagging the genuinely dangerous ones for other forms of regulation. Who is best suited to make those assessments and watch for invasiveness? Can the botanical gardens do it? (Boyce, do you have time to police the gardeners of Illinois?) Can the regulators do it? (Keep in mind, they don't even know what's being grown in the US.) Everybody can help, of course, but I think the people who can do the most to evaluate invasiveness are those who deal with the plants on a daily basis, the growers. So I think the situation in plant species preservation and invasive plant control is similar: in both cases, the most effective programs will embrace growers as allies and participants. I am trying to make this point to some folks the US government, and so far they are surprisingly responsive. If you'd like to participate in that dialog, please contact me privately. Thanks, Mike San Jose, CA From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Growers as allies Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 09:00:47 +0100 In the UK we have a system of "County Recorders" who take resonsability for recording the flora in their areas. This includes garden escapes, invasive species, rare natives and so on. The information is then compiled on a national basis. Obviously the quality of the records depends on the time and the expertise that a recorder can give to the task but overall there is a fairly complete published record. again on the subject of invasive plants, other areas of the world might be more vulnerable to invasive species but Britain is perhaps in an unusual position in having a very high proportion of its plant species introduced, due to being a island, and due to the last Iceage, and due to having a climate suitable for cultivating such a wide range of plants. Rhododendron ponticum is much hated as a forigen invasive, In large areas of the UK it performs as a primary coloniser, but when it gets rust, or breaks as the branches get big, or because of snow, birch and holly get in. It may be 100 years before the birch gets a grip or the holly starts to shade out the Rhododendron, and Oak gets in to start woodland regeneration. unfortunately the conservationists dont think in terms of an evolutionary time scale 30 years ago everyone was hacking down sycamore as a forigen invasive, (I'm not sure but I believe it was here pre Iceage). In any case its sugary sap provides for a wide range of insect life and the food chains suported by them. Now it is fasionable to bash Himalayan balsam, (Impatiens glandulifera). Yes it is invasive, but it is late up and its sites provide cover among the detritus for a lot of native insects and small mammals, frogs, birds and so on as well as a protection for earlier flowering/ growing smaller plants grasses, arable weeds/ annuals, bulbs and so on. Peter (UK) I On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 5:24 AM, Michael Mace wrote: > ...based on the assumption that there is a large supply > of attractive ornamental plants outside the US that, if imported, could > become an invasive threat. > > So there's a lesson here for the record-keepers in the federal government. > I've communicated with them about it, and the dialog has been very positive > (thanks to Bill Aley for setting that up). > > But I think there's a deeper lesson that we all need to absorb: Any plant > species that's attractive enough that someone introduced it into Australia > or the UK or some other part of Europe is also attractive enough that > people > have brought it into the US, repeatedly and enthusiastically, for many > decades. > > So at least in the US, the issue isn't really about guarding the borders; > it's mostly about assessing the invasiveness of things already here, making > sure they are grown responsibly, and flagging the genuinely dangerous > > Mike > San Jose, CA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From richrd@nas.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <9763FB27-1B5C-4B5D-9424-E5106A31111E@nas.com> From: Richard Haard Subject: Growers as allies Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 03:05:09 -0700 Oh - I've been reading the list for a few months and this is chance to jump into this conversation, also introducing myself and interests. Mike and others, I'm a native plant grower since 1985 and have been involved in protecting biodiversity of native species from the start. This issue is indeed broader than concerns stated about the escape of invasive species into the environment. This is indeed a problem because during my time a biannual geranium, purple loosestrife, japanese knotweed, and now a shrub, butterfly bush have moved into our native plant ecosystem and are making serious impacts by displacing less aggressive native species in our northwestern corner of the US. When I was a young landscaper in the northeastern US I 'rescued ' many escaped ornamental trees and shrubs from adjacent woodlots (soon to be cleared for subdivisions) and moved them back into residential landscapes. Friends have told me in EU that some of our PNW ornamental crossover shrub species have naturalized into native habitats as well as introduction of commercial timber species there and in the tropics. And then there is basket wil low, the now world wide Salix fragilis. The 98 yo farmer whose farm our nursery owner took over was child of the first pioneer generation of farmers (and loggers) of our newly settled Whatcom County. He told me the pioneer farmers had wonderful experience for first 10 years or so with 'no weeds'. If you look at roadside vegetation in lower 48 as I do, then go to a place like Alaska or Yukon, Canada then drive few miles out of the settlement (i.e. Anchorage). What will be very clear is the complete lack of exotic weedy species. There they are still in their natural state holiday. In lower 48 even the national forests and parks are contaminated with exotics because of pasturing and misuse of plants for restoration. This problem is very broad but in recent years we all have learned. I collect native plant tree, shrub and perennial seed for propagation in urban lowlands of northwestern states and need to emphasize that reintroduction of ornamental species to natural environment is ongoing problem. Retail consumers of exotic plants, perhaps grown in SE Asia, marketed in Walmart or Home Depot, then prunings and dead or diseased plants are disposed (dumped) into adjacent woodlots and natural watercourse ditches. I see this practice everywhere I go. In Northern California this is prevailing theory of introduction of Sudden Oak Death, a previously unknown Phytopthera carried into the country by a tropical exotic. No surprise standards are becoming very strict. We're a restoration nursery and I would like to say that preserving biodiversity goes way beyond issue of controlling spread of exotic species. There is issue of genetic contamination that perhaps is equal or greater concern. The main crops on our 60 acre farm are direct seeded, field grown, bare root deciduous trees, shrubs, emergents and perennials. We do grow some bulb and corm forming species which is why I enjoy reading this list. On many occasions, I have grown a single species from seed collected in multiple locations, elevations and latitudes. The strains are easy to distinguish from the first day seedlings emerge, to fall color, defoliation date and date to break dormancy. Montana SS, Red Osier Dogwood, C. sericea is disease prone here in our warm moist winters and Alaska SS Scouler Willow defoliates here in August then breaks dormancy during middle winter (must be day length). The species, Scouler Willow, Salix scouleriana is distributed from Alaska to Alberta and Mexico.In western Washington I have collected three distinct forms of Scouler Willow that breed true to seed. These strains are habitat specific. Example: A landscape architect specifies red osier and say mock orange for a DOT easement planting and the contractor goes to the low cost source in Minnesota or Montana. These plants eventually escape as volunteers or interbreed with the native strains weakening the adaptability of the species in our ecosystem. We have made a lot of progress here working with spec writers and agencies to specify provenance as well as using native species in naturalized settings. Now our customers are coming to us demanding seed source information rather than standing on soap box at conferences 20 years ago. Think about context of this and introduction of bulb species and strains into naturalized settings. Where the species keeps its pollen to itself, displacement of native understory by escapees is only issue. I have done some introductions at my forested homesite and is pleasant. Moving a lily, an iris or camas into habitat restoration where same species is present seed sources need to be considered. There is still much more to learn about provenance and species genetics. Recently forest service has provided us with perennial seed for propagation and collection zones are based on elevation and rainfall. Very elongate zones that move past many watersheds. Lastly, we're strictly wholesale and will likely never have a retail sales presence. I'm working now to scale up our hardy, native bulb production from current 50,000 annual to several million. Is no easy task as we are currently at 1920s harvest technology (hand trowels). Our bulbs are available only thru October and some readers may be interested to look and consider minimum quantities. From our website bulbs are on page 20 of the 2012 catalog and seed is on page 16. Richard Haard, Plant Propagator Fourth Corner Nurseries, 5652 Sand Road Bellingham, Washington, 98226 http://fourthcornernurseries.com/index.html From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <1315653539.64865.YahooMailClassic@web86307.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Tigridia orthantha - phantom flowers Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 12:18:59 +0100 (BST) When I acquired this a few years ago it flowered for several weeks during late summer. Single successive flowers. Since I have had no flowers, until this year. (Bulbs not big enough I was told by a nursery) But as each flower has tried to emerge a twisted up bud has very slowly made its way half out, never acftually opening before giving up the struggle. Now a side shoot has grown and the bud is on the end of an inch or so stem, with a flower that looked as it was actually going to make it; but no, over again this morning. That is 5 phantoms and another just showing I see. On the assumption it is not flowering at night this time, what is going on? We are currently having a lot of quite dull weather, rain some days, sun others, temp. today warm at 21C.   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 ish From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Tigridia orthantha - phantom flowers Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 13:02:00 +0100 sometimes reticulatae iris do this, suggestions are lack of water at a critical moment but that seems improbable from my experiance. I should be glad of an answer to this conundrum too. Peter (UK) On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 12:18 PM, Brian Whyer wrote: > But as each flower has tried to emerge a twisted up bud has very slowly > made its way half out, never acftually opening before giving up the > struggle. > > Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 ish > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <1315658276.90940.YahooMailClassic@web86308.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Growers as allies Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 13:37:56 +0100 (BST) Although specifically about Plant Breeders Rights, rather than conservation, members may be interested how these regulations evolved in the UK. The link is to an article that appeared in the RHS Garden journal.   http://www.callygardens.co.uk/pbr_article.html   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone 8 ish From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Plant Breeders Rights Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 13:55:16 +0100 other than the fact that he does not recognise the fact that trialling a plant is an expensive operation , I have to agree that Plant Breeders Rights on natural typical forms of plants are unethical. There are other outlays involved in true breeding or extensive selection. Peter (UK) On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Brian Whyer wrote: > http://www.callygardens.co.uk/pbr_article.html > > Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone 8 ish > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From msittner@mcn.org Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <20110910134715.AB81BE9469@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Rare Gladiolus and Laperouisia Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 06:43:23 -0700 Hi, Rachel Saunders has recently shared with me some photos of some rare South African plants she and Rod saw in the wild on one of their trips. I've added them to the wiki in case you'd like to have a look. Gladiolus comptonii Gladiolus deserticola Lapeirousia barklyi Mary Sue From dkramb@badbear.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Tigridia orthantha - phantom flowers Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 10:35:30 -0400 Ahhh!!! Rigidella ortantha!!! I tried growing that about 8 yrs ago. Oh, I'm so jealous you have it. Sooooo very jealous! I can't answer your question, but I am so glad to hear people on PBS on growing that. The flower color is STUNNING for an irid. Dennis in Cincinnati From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <01b401cc6fc9$cfa68c50$6ef3a4f0$@ab.ca> From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: New allium on Mystery Bulbs page Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 08:56:24 -0600 Hello, I've added an Allium to the Mystery Bulbs page. I've had it for many years but have never been able to accurately ID it. It blooms late summer and well into September as long as we don't get an early frost. It has round black seeds and comes true from seed, maybe because I don't have any other allium blooming that late in the year. Strap like bluish foliage, grows about 1 foot tall. Does anyone else grow Allium trifoliatum and can confirm this? Thanks Linda Foulis Red Deer, AB From totototo@telus.net Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <4E6B308B.6957.1FA8@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Growers as allies Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 09:40:27 -0700 On 9 Sep 2011, at 21:24, Michael Mace wrote: > ...the first set of species proposed for the ban last month ended up > showing a very different situation. *Every one* of the ornamental species > proposed for a ban turns out to already be present in the US; the government > just wasn't aware of it. And not just present -- in most cases the species > have been here for more than a century, distributed through nurseries and > seed exchanges, written up in books and magazines. The US government was > just looking at the wrong info sources. > > So there's a lesson here for the record-keepers in the federal government. > I've communicated with them about it, and the dialog has been very positive > (thanks to Bill Aley for setting that up). This amazes me! The Liberty Hyde Bailey Hortorium at Cornell maintains (or used to) an index of all nursery offerings in the US. And the Hortus volumes they published, most recently Hortus Third in 1976, supposedly listed all the plants in cultivation in the US at that time. Are the people drafting these regulations *that* ignorant of the field??? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada From carlobal@netzero.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <68C641AC-633E-4B07-A0C9-085CFEA711D4@netzero.com> From: "Carlo A. Balistrieri" Subject: New allium on Mystery Bulbs page Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 13:22:25 -0400 Good Saturday Linda, Are you sure it's not Allium tuberosum? On Sep 10, 2011, at 10:56 AM, Linda Foulis wrote: > Hello, > > I've added an Allium to the Mystery Bulbs page. I've had it for > many years > but have never been able to accurately ID it. It blooms late summer > and > well into September as long as we don't get an early frost. It has > round > black seeds and comes true from seed, maybe because I don't have any > other > allium blooming that late in the year. Strap like bluish foliage, > grows > about 1 foot tall. > Does anyone else grow Allium trifoliatum and can confirm this? 2 6 2 . 4 9 0 . 6 1 6 3 New York NJ Philadelphia From antennaria@charter.net Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <59101f13.1c683c.132545cd420.Webtop.48@charter.net> From: Mark McDonough Subject: New allium on Mystery Bulbs page Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 13:22:42 -0400 (EDT) "Linda Foulis" wrote: > I've added an Allium to the Mystery Bulbs page. I've had it for many > years > but have never been able to accurately ID it. It blooms late summer > and > well into September as long as we don't get an early frost. It has > round > black seeds and comes true from seed, maybe because I don't have any > other > allium blooming that late in the year. Strap like bluish foliage, > grows > about 1 foot tall. > Does anyone else grow Allium trifoliatum and can confirm this? > > Thanks > Linda Foulis > Red Deer, AB Linda, your mystery allium is Allium tuberosum. Allium trifoliatum is a late spring blooming species, and it is most definitely not that species. Mark McDonough The Onion Man :-) USDA Zone 5 Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <410-22011961018734828@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: Growers as allies Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:07:34 -0400 > > Are the people drafting these regulations *that* ignorant of the field??? > Credentialed does not equal educated. It's one of the fatal flaws in many regulatory schemes. I blame epistemic closure and hubris. Fine day in the Albemarle..clumps of Colchicum in the major bulb bed today Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina US From msittner@mcn.org Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <20110910181754.81E4AE8BFE@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Tigridia orthantha - phantom flowers Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 11:13:02 -0700 I've been growing this for a number of years after admiring it in the Mendocino Coast Botanical Gardens which made me think I could grow it. But they do water in summer and so I assumed I'd have no chance growing it in the ground like they do. Every year it goes dormant sometime in winter and then reappears sometime in summer, but I've never seen a suggestion of a bloom. I started seed in spring 2005 and when they dwindled another lot in spring 2009. The seeds germinated well, but I obviously am not giving them whatever they need. So you don't have to be too jealous Dennis. I don't think it is a plant most people would grow just for the leaves. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From loujost@yahoo.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <1315679606.45508.YahooMailClassic@web120529.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: lou jost Subject: Tigridia orthantha: phantom flower Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 11:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Brian, Since you mentioned "On the assumption it is not flowering at night this time", this implies that you have not looked at it at all hours. As you know, many irids open in the morning and close by mid day. If you went to work each day on a normal shift, you might never see them open. Just a crazy theory, you probably are aware of this (since you have seen it blooming for you in the past) and have looked at the right time. Lou From dkramb@badbear.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Tigridia orthantha: phantom flower Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 15:32:38 -0400 This is very true about Alophia species, which are in the Tigridia tribe. Alophia flowers are only open for a few hours, then they twist up and drop off. Fortunately for me, most flowers end up pollinated so I do get seeds. On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 2:33 PM, lou jost wrote: > Brian, > Since you mentioned "On the assumption it is not flowering at night this time", this implies that you have not looked at it at all hours. As you know, many irids open in the morning and close by mid day. If you went to work each day on a normal shift, you might never see them open. Just a crazy theory, you probably are aware of this (since you have seen it blooming for you in the past) and have looked at the right time. From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <1315684637.25860.YahooMailClassic@web86301.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Tigridia orthantha - phantom flowers Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 20:57:17 +0100 (BST) Ah the wonders of digital photography and exif. I realised I have some photos of my plant. On 4 June 08 I photographed it at 14.49 in the garden at Crug Farm Nursery on the Welsh coast on a dull day, and my plant at home on 15 August at 9.01. So as we might expect a morning flower lasting longest on a dull day. Another enticing bud showing, it's warm but rain expected so who knows? Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone 8 ish From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <01c101cc7011$16fe6ef0$44fb4cd0$@ab.ca> From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: New allium on Mystery Bulbs page Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 17:26:37 -0600 Thank you Mark and Carlo, I had ruled out Allium tuberosum as mine did not resemble the picture on the wiki. Now I know. Linda Foulis Red Deer, Alberta From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Tigridia orthantha - phantom flowers Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 00:54:49 +0100 it grows in the ground at "Crug Farm" west Wales in the UK. they irrigate heavily in summer and put down a lot of organic top dressing. other plants around include Epimediums, Scheffleras, Paris, Trilliums.... On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 7:13 PM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > I've been growing this for a number of years after admiring it in the > Mendocino Coast Botanical Gardens which made me think I could grow > it. But they do water in summer and so I assumed I'd have no chance > growing it in the ground like they do. Every year it goes dormant > sometime in winter and then reappears sometime in summer, but I've > never seen a suggestion of a bloom. I started seed in spring 2005 and > when they dwindled another lot in spring 2009. The seeds germinated > well, but I obviously am not giving them whatever they need. So you > don't have to be too jealous Dennis. I don't think it is a plant most > people would grow just for the leaves. > > Mary Sue > > Mary Sue Ittner > California's North Coast > Wet mild winters with occasional frost > Dry mild summers > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From ds429@comcast.net Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <000001cc7037$6fca8fc0$4f5faf40$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific BX 285 Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 00:01:07 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 285" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/ share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact me for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Fereydoun Sharifi: SEEDS: (SUPPLIES ARE LIMITED) 1. Cyclamen cilicium album 2. Cyclamen repandum ssp repandum fa album 3. Cyclamen rohlfsianum 4. Cyclamen xhildebrandii 5. Cyclamen xsaundersiae 6. Cyclamen balericum 7. Cyclamen pelaponnesiacum 8. Cyclamen xwhitei 9. Cyclamen xwellensiekii 10. Tulbaghia comminsii 11. Tulbaghia ludwigiana 12. Tulbaghia galpini 13. Tulbaghia cernua 14. Tulbaghia capensis 15. Dipcadi marlothii 16. Bobartia aphylla 17. Cyrthanthus breviflorus 18. Aristea ecklonii From Kathleen Sayce: 19. Bulbils of Lilium lancifolium From Jim Shields: 20. Seed of Haemanthus humilis humilis 21. Bulbs of Lachenalia viridiflora, ex Robinett 22. Bulbs of Lachenalia reflexa 23. Bulbs of Lachenalia bulbifera, ex Silverhill 24. Bulbs of Lachenalia rubida rubra, ex Longwood From Shirley Meneice: 25. Cormels that were on the bloom stalk of a gigantic chasmanthe. In a clump of them, one bloom stalk grew to 7 feet high with whorls of orangey-red flowers in 9 tiers. The top four blooms were arranged in the usual manner of a chasmanthe. The latter had no bulbils. As you will see, the rest of the stem was quite "reproductive". Unfortunately my gardener cut the stalk, so I cannot tell what bulb in the original clump produced such a strange bloom. It will be interesting to see if it continues its amazing performance next year. Thank you. Fereydoun, Kathleen. Jim, and Shirley. Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From tom@evolution-plants.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <62B1F05B-EE57-4CB7-873B-D7E0C994ADC6@evolution-plants.com> From: Tom Mitchell Subject: The CBD guide to shooting yourself in the foot Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 08:21:10 +0100 Hi Boyce, This is great - a constructive debate bringing many well-informed perspectives to bear on a complex, important and emotive subject. > You make some valid points and I appreciate you sharing your perspective > with me. At botanical and horticultural society meetings I have made and > responded to many of the concerns you have expressed. I'm glad you agree that the points I made are valid but I notice you only responded to some of them. Besides which, responding to a concern isn't the same thing as answering it, as one of your former presidents discovered when he was asked 'did you have sexual relations...?' I would be the last person to deny that the predictive models are inadequate. For my PhD I studied the population dynamics of Macaranga in undisturbed rainforest in Brunei and am familiar with the difficulties. In fact, I'd go further than you and say that the models are worse than useless. Like the financial models that bankers used to predict the behaviour of the economy prior to the credit crunch (I was a banker for 14 years too and in the thick of this disaster - it wasn't my fault, honest), they encourage a false sense of security that the rest of us call hubris. The question is not whether your scientists can accurately predict the likely invasiveness of species (they can't - beyond the short term and a few common sense principles) but what to do, given that inability. Your answer is to do nothing on the grounds that it's 'conservative'. Nero would have approved. My answer is to harness the enthusiasm and knowledge of nurserymen and private collectors who could (more th an) plug the real declines in your budget that are coming whether you like it or not. As it happens, we are going to do our thing whether you ask for our help or not. In fact we will continue to promote ex situ conservation even if you ask us not to, unless you give a better reason to stop than 'my scientist is bigger than your scientist'. In short, we'll get on with conserving the plants we love, with or without your permission but surely we could work faster towards our common goal together than in opposition? > The role of botanic gardens and arboreta as biological arks > can not be overstated. *Ex situ* collections are the 'last best hope' when > all else fails. We agree on this point completely. One of the most exciting botanic gardens I've ever visited is Juniper Level at Plant Delights Nursery in North Carolina and one of the finest arboreta in the world is at the nearby J.C. Raulston Arboretum. The latter has recently started issuing an Index Seminum. Hooray! You ducked my question about why it makes sense to be conservative with respect to Index Semina but not to existing collections or new ones. I'm thrilled that you evaluate new collections for several years before you release them for viewing by the great unwashed. Many - but, let's be honest, not all - nurserymen exercise the same caution voluntarily. You don't need a supercomputer and a bunch of scientists to predict that fleshy-fruited bird dispersed climbers from southern China are a bad risk in Tennessee. You don't mention the other role for botanic gardens - that of enthusing, inspiring and kindling the sense of awe that plants can light in persons who otherwise would never encounter nature outside the Discovery Channel. I live on a small, crowded island and have two of the world's great arboreta - Kew and Westonbirt - within a two hour drive but how many people in the vastness of the USA can say the same? Nurseries and private botanic gardens have a huge role to play in giving people a stake in wanting to conserve wild flora. The reason members of this forum are so passionate about plant conservation is that we grow plants and we want to grow more. > CBG's approach to the CBD has been developed over many years based upon > experiences overseas and is a reflection of the current state of affairs - > if we want to collect in these countries we have to obey their laws. Their > laws, in most cases, are based on one or more interpretations of the CBD. > So the voluntary aspect (USA hasn't signed) is not really voluntary once we > start to work beyond the USA. I don't doubt the realpolitik motivations - and it's good to hear you acknowledging that the real reason you adopted the CBD is that you were forced to, not that you agree with it. But that's exactly my point. Conservation needs people like you - in positions of influence - to stand up and say that the CBD is a 'cretinous and counterproductive exercise in bureaucratic mumbo jumbo' as I've put it elsewhere. > I believe there are meetings where scientists > and governments discuss changes/improvements to the CBD so there is hope > that some of the less effective aspects will be modified. You may believe this but unfortunately you'd be mistaken to do so. On the contrary, governments and scientists are working hard to close all the loopholes. The Nagoya Protocol, open for signature since 2 February this year, reaffirms the CBD and seeks to bolster the legal basis for placing as many obstacles as possible in the way of free access to wild genetic resources. As the CBD website informs us: 'The Nagoya Protocol will create greater legal certainty and transparency for both providers and users of genetic resources by: Establishing more predictable conditions for access to genetic resources. Helping to ensure benefit-sharing when genetic resources leave the contracting party providing the genetic resources By helping to ensure benefit-sharing, the Nagoya Protocol creates incentives to conserve and sustainably use genetic resources, and therefore enhances the contribution of biodiversity to development and human well-being.' That's one instance of the ostrich fallacy, two false predicates and four non-sequiturs in one short paragraph, surely some kind of philosophical record. This garbage is now eight signatures away from ratification and entry into international law. God help us. He won't but if you don't ask... The only way the CBD can be overturned is by treating it with the contempt it deserves. You have the blessing of your government to do precisely this, something that my own spineless leaders haven't left me the luxury of. In international law, the CBD cannot be imposed unilaterally by a signatory on a non-signatory. Another government cannot require a US institution to respect the CBD (though it could deny you access to its plants). > After reading through the posts, I think we all realize none of us > really have all of the answers yet, but with so many enthusiastic, dedicated > and intelligent people working towards the same goal there is hope. Amen to that. As so many others have said on this thread, WE ARE NOT THE ENEMY. I'm powerfully reminded of the long-running debate in animal conservation between hunters and (other) conservationists. Hunters argue that no-one has a larger stake in conserving stocks of 'game' animals than they do. Vegetarians argue that it's better to allow the hunting preserves to be sold for development than allow those beastly hunters to shoot bambi (OK, OK, they don't argue that, but it comes to the same thing). In plant conservation, we can have our cake and eat it. I don't know a single person who goes out hunting plants or seeds in order to shoot them them or stick their horns on the wall. Diane Whitehead gives the excellent example of Wollemia nobilis. I have one in my garden, a gift to my young daughter from her Godfather (a conservation biologist). The future of this species is more assured than any other formerly endangered plant I can think of. Let me go out on a limb and predict t hat it won't be invading a forest near you soon. You'd better run that by your experts though. The little word 'soon' is a revealing one. Several people have commented on the irrelevance on evolutionary timescales of our feeble human battles. I just walked with my kids to the end of the country lane we live on. The landscape hereabouts is completely manufactured, over two millennia, by humans but is still beautiful. I collected a big handful of seeds from Ornithogalum pyrenaicum, known locally as Bath Asparagus. This species may be native - it is so often impossible to tell - or it may have been introduced by the Romans a couple of thousand years ago. Either way it's a welcome component of the local flora. Go back another 18,000 years (less than an eye blink in geological time), to the last glacial maximum, and there wasn't a vascular plant within hundreds of miles of where I'm writing this because my lane was under a mile of ice. Go back to the start of the Quaternary, 2.5 million years ago and Britain was covered by forest, interestingly completely different in compo sition to ecologically similar contemporary forests. The palynologist Keith Bennett has spent his career demonstrating with fossil (pollen) evidence that plant species advance and retreat in response to natural climate cycles in an unpredictable fashion and that everything we see now is laughably ephemeral. As he writes: 'I have pointed out that fossil data appears to show major increases and distribution changes for some taxa (such as temperate trees) at the beginning of the current interglacial but that these changes are unlikely to survive. Long-term survival of taxa is likely to depend on persistence throughout in southern localities. The new populations in higher latitudes will become extinct.' By 'new' he means those that have advanced during the current interglacial. Bennett didn't coin the term 'Anthropocene' for the current geological era but he'd probably agree that it's just a phase we're going through. So there! My scientist is bigger than your scientist (at least I'll bet he has a longer beard - see his website http://www.qub.ac.uk/schools/gap/Staff/AcademicStaff/ProfKeithBennett/?ns=xMlsz2lbxt%3D%3D&page=all). Best wishes, Tom > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 14:48:39 -0500 > From: Boyce Tankersley > Subject: Re: [pbs] Convention on Biological Diversity > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Tom: > > You make some valid points and I appreciate you sharing your perspective > with me. At botanical and horticultural society meetings I have made and > responded to many of the concerns you have expressed. > > With respect to *Index semina*, in CBG's case, we are pursuing a > conservative approach recommended by our scientific staff with expertise in > these areas (seed biology and invasive species). The challenge that we (and > others) have not overcome yet is identifying the complex characteristics > that lead to invasions - before they happen (we are pretty good - after the > fact). The predictive models are simply not that accurate (and we have only > focused on our regional climatic conditions). I shudder to think of trying > to develop a model that could evaluate invasiveness with a high degree of > accuracy for all climatic conditions. > > At the same time, staff with responsibility for building and maintaining > genetic diversity within our collections continue to collect plants. The > plants we bring back are evaluated for a number of years before they make it > into the general collections in an effort to avoid bringing invasive plants > into the USA. The role of botanic gardens and arboreta as biological arks > can not be overstated. *Ex situ* collections are the 'last best hope' when > all else fails. > > CBG's approach to the CBD has been developed over many years based upon > experiences overseas and is a reflection of the current state of affairs - > if we want to collect in these countries we have to obey their laws. Their > laws, in most cases, are based on one or more interpretations of the CBD. > So the voluntary aspect (USA hasn't signed) is not really voluntary once we > start to work beyond the USA. I believe there are meetings where scientists > and governments discuss changes/improvements to the CBD so there is hope > that some of the less effective aspects will be modified. > > Each botanic garden or arboretum, within the confines of national and > international law, is free to adopt the approach(s) that best fits what they > think is important. Perspectives within the botanic garden community differ > widely as you can imagine with 450 institutions in the USA and 2,300 > Worldwide. > > It has been heartening to read the comments related to the importance so > many on the Pacific Bulb Society listserve place on conservation of rare and > endangered bulbs and the efforts taken at your own expense to do whatever > you can. After reading through the posts, I think we all realize none of us > really have all of the answers yet, but with so many enthusiastic, dedicated > and intelligent people working towards the same goal there is hope. > > Many thanks, > > Boyce Tankersley > Director of Living Plant Documentation > Chicago Botanic Garden > 1000 Lake Cook Road > Glencoe, IL 60022 From michaelcmace@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <005d01cc705c$b5ac93b0$2105bb10$@com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Growers as allies Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 01:27:56 -0700 Rodger wrote: >> Are the people drafting these regulations *that* ignorant of the field??? Not ignorant at all, IMO, but perhaps a bit too trusting of the completeness of certain databases they had access to. That's easily corrected. And by the way, after researching some of this stuff, I am starting to believe that there are no truly complete databases, only databases that we want to believe are complete. It's amazing the differences you find when you look at several sources, and then supplement that with Google searches. Mike San Jose, CA From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: The CBD guide to shooting yourself in the foot Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 09:32:02 +0100 We have a principal in English law "the spirit of the act". I expect distribution of endangerd plants, by botanic gardens, could be interpreted as a conservation measure in the interests of conservation, and therefore an extension of their remit given to them by the countries donating genetic material. The actions of responsable conservators not 'keeping all their eggs in one basket' Peter (UK) > The role of botanic gardens and arboreta as biological arks > > can not be overstated. *Ex situ* collections are the 'last best hope' > when > > all else fails. > > if we want to collect in these countries we have to obey their laws. > Their > > laws, in most cases, are based on one or more interpretations of the CBD. > > So the voluntary aspect (USA hasn't signed) is not really voluntary once > we > > start to work beyond the USA. > > The Nagoya Protocol, open for signature since 2 February this year, > reaffirms the CBD and seeks to bolster the legal basis for placing as many > obstacles as possible in the way of free access to wild genetic resources. > As the CBD website informs us: > > By helping to ensure benefit-sharing, the Nagoya Protocol creates > incentives to conserve and sustainably use genetic resources, and therefore > enhances the contribution of biodiversity to development and human > well-being.' > > (though it could deny you access to its plants). > > > From pammatto1@bigpond.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Pam & Matt" Subject: Pacific BX 285 Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 18:40:46 +1000 Hi Dell, I would like : 16 17 Thanks Matt. Pam and Matt Gerrish 10 Verey Court Dandenong Vic 3175 Australia pammatto1@bigpond.com -----Original Message----- From: Dell Sherk Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 2:01 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' ; 'Mark Wilcox' ; 'Roger Macfarlane' Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 285 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 285" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/ share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact me for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Fereydoun Sharifi: SEEDS: (SUPPLIES ARE LIMITED) 1. Cyclamen cilicium album 2. Cyclamen repandum ssp repandum fa album 3. Cyclamen rohlfsianum 4. Cyclamen xhildebrandii 5. Cyclamen xsaundersiae 6. Cyclamen balericum 7. Cyclamen pelaponnesiacum 8. Cyclamen xwhitei 9. Cyclamen xwellensiekii 10. Tulbaghia comminsii 11. Tulbaghia ludwigiana 12. Tulbaghia galpini 13. Tulbaghia cernua 14. Tulbaghia capensis 15. Dipcadi marlothii 16. Bobartia aphylla 17. Cyrthanthus breviflorus 18. Aristea ecklonii From Kathleen Sayce: 19. Bulbils of Lilium lancifolium From Jim Shields: 20. Seed of Haemanthus humilis humilis 21. Bulbs of Lachenalia viridiflora, ex Robinett 22. Bulbs of Lachenalia reflexa 23. Bulbs of Lachenalia bulbifera, ex Silverhill 24. Bulbs of Lachenalia rubida rubra, ex Longwood From Shirley Meneice: 25. Cormels that were on the bloom stalk of a gigantic chasmanthe. In a clump of them, one bloom stalk grew to 7 feet high with whorls of orangey-red flowers in 9 tiers. The top four blooms were arranged in the usual manner of a chasmanthe. The latter had no bulbils. As you will see, the rest of the stem was quite "reproductive". Unfortunately my gardener cut the stalk, so I cannot tell what bulb in the original clump produced such a strange bloom. It will be interesting to see if it continues its amazing performance next year. Thank you. Fereydoun, Kathleen. Jim, and Shirley. Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From tom@evolution-plants.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <9058ED60-CF4E-4750-8A45-2786205722F6@evolution-plants.com> From: Tom Mitchell Subject: How to kill a CBD Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 10:03:10 +0100 I'm sure that most readers of the PBS list want to get back to talking about bulbs. The enthusiasm for growing plants - as many and as varied as possible - that shines from every post on this forum is its defining characteristic. My policy proposal would be to harness that enthusiasm to the ends of plant conservation by doing exactly what we are doing...but more of it. Several members of the forum have mentioned the UK's system of 'National Collections'. In principle this is a great idea but the Charity that runs the scheme, Plant Heritage is fatally damaged by its self-imposed slavish adherence to treaties such as the CBD and CITES. One national collection holder recently told me that he had collected seed of his favourite genus on a field trip in South America and had raised and was selling plants from this source. He was threatened with expulsion from the scheme because 'we cannot be seen to be condoning _____ breaking the law.' Why not establish an informal network of US-based 'International Collections'? The huge advantage to basing such an organisation in the USA is that it is the only large, wealthy country that has not signed the CBD. You can thumb your nose at it without fear of prosecution. Don't limit the number of collections per genus. The more, the better. Don't make the mistake of appointing a committee or allowing one to appoint itself. The committee will immediately become part of the establishment and want to insist on complying with the CBD and you'll be back to square one. As for the CBD, my advice is to ignore it. As I said, treat it with the contempt it deserves. We cannot change it from within, so let's destroy it from without. With any new law it is wise to ask the Roman Senator Cassius's question - 'cui bono', who benefits? In the case of the CBD the answer is emphatically not biodiversity, for all the reasons previously discussed. In the case of the CBD, no-one benefits because it is toothless and routinely ignored. The would-be beneficiaries, however, are the bureaucrats, who get to attend conferences in fancy hotels to negotiate these things, their political masters, who can claim to their bone-headed electorates to be 'doing something' and the business interests that pull the puppets' strings. It is instructive to quote from an email I received while I was writing this from a friend who has worked all his life as a conservation biologist. 'You can imagine that, in 1992 [the 'Earth Summit', where the CBD was born], every nation state arrived at the table with strict instructions from their respective despots back at home to fight, tooth and nail, for their self-interests. More, they are not to sign off on anything that will damage their development process, as they see it. Translated, this means that they don't want to sign off to anything that will cost money for any industry in which the Big Men, back at home, have vested interests. They don't want to have an aggressive, fang-bearing lion that'll come and bite them later in the arse.' Another friend, a high-ranking conservationist, who works at the front line of bird conservation, wrote even more revealingly in response to an earlier diatribe of mine against the CBD: ' I especially love your treatise on the CBD - I share your views but can not express them as I work for an NGO and we have to praise it.' 'We have to praise it.' These two guys are passionate conservationists and have taken poorly paid, insecure jobs in an effort to promote biodiversity conservation. Yet they cannot say what they think if they want to keep these jobs. We are on our own, I'm afraid, but collectively we are up to the task. Best wishes, Tom > Some might suggest that an organization like PBS or NARGS or > AGS or even AHS and RHS campaign to resolve the issue of propagation > and distribution, but there seem to be complicities within > complicities and well meaning do-gooders preventing all the most > desirable results. > > I don't have a clue to even an approach to an answer, but the > current situation seems foolish at best. > > Tom and Boyce can you suggest the first step to resolve this? > A step that shows cooperation between both the regulators and > authorities, and the growers and gardeners who might implement some > changes? > > Best Jim W. > > * as well as national regulatory agencies, greed and the status quo > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <11139250.3585.1315741643366.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f36> From: Mark BROWN Subject: How to kill a CBD Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 13:47:23 +0200 (CEST) Magnificent post Tom, thank-you! Mark > Message du 11/09/11 11:03 > De : "Tom Mitchell" > A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] How to kill a CBD > > I'm sure that most readers of the PBS list want to get back to talking about bulbs. The enthusiasm for growing plants - as many and as varied as possible - that shines from every post on this forum is its defining characteristic. My policy proposal would be to harness that enthusiasm to the ends of plant conservation by doing exactly what we are doing...but more of it. Several members of the forum have mentioned the UK's system of 'National Collections'. In principle this is a great idea but the Charity that runs the scheme, Plant Heritage is fatally damaged by its self-imposed slavish adherence to treaties such as the CBD and CITES. One national collection holder recently told me that he had collected seed of his favourite genus on a field trip in South America and had raised and was selling plants from this source. He was threatened with expulsion from the scheme because 'we cannot be seen to be condoning _____ breaking the law.' Why not establish an informal network of US-based 'International Collections'? The huge advantage to basing such an organisation in the USA is that it is the only large, wealthy country that has not signed the CBD. You can thumb your nose at it without fear of prosecution. Don't limit the number of collections per genus. The more, the better. Don't make the mistake of appointing a committee or allowing one to appoint itself. The committee will immediately become part of the establishment and want to insist on complying with the CBD and you'll be back to square one. As for the CBD, my advice is to ignore it. As I said, treat it with the contempt it deserves. We cannot change it from within, so let's destroy it from without. With any new law it is wise to ask the Roman Senator Cassius's question - 'cui bono', who benefits? In the case of the CBD the answer is emphatically not biodiversity, for all the reasons previously discussed. In the case of the CBD, no-one benefits because it is toothless and routinely ignored. The would-be beneficiaries, however, are the bureaucrats, who get to attend conferences in fancy hotels to negotiate these things, their political masters, who can claim to their bone-headed electorates to be 'doing something' and the business interests that pull the puppets' strings. It is instructive to quote from an email I received while I was writing this from a friend who has worked all his life as a conservation biologist. 'You can imagine that, in 1992 [the 'Earth Summit', where the CBD was born], every nation state arrived at the table with strict instructions from their respective despots back at home to fight, tooth and nail, for their self-interests.  More, they are not to sign off on anything that will damage their development process, as they see it. Translated, this means that they don't want to sign off to anything that will cost money for any industry in which the Big Men, back at home, have vested interests.  They don't want to have an aggressive, fang-bearing lion that'll come and bite them later in the arse.' Another friend, a high-ranking conservationist, who works at the front line of bird conservation, wrote even more revealingly in response to an earlier diatribe of mine against the CBD: ' I especially love your treatise on the CBD - I share your views but can not express them as I work for an NGO and we have to praise it.' 'We have to praise it.' These two guys are passionate conservationists and have taken poorly paid, insecure jobs in an effort to promote biodiversity conservation. Yet they cannot say what they think if they want to keep these jobs. We are on our own, I'm afraid, but collectively we are up to the task. Best wishes, Tom > Some might suggest that an organization like PBS or NARGS or > AGS or even AHS and RHS  campaign to resolve the issue of propagation > and distribution, but there seem to be complicities within > complicities and well meaning do-gooders preventing all the most > desirable results. > > I don't have a clue to even an approach to an answer, but the > current situation seems foolish at best. > > Tom and Boyce can you suggest the first step to resolve this? > A step that shows cooperation between both the regulators and > authorities, and the growers and gardeners who might implement some > changes? > > BestJim W. > > * as well as national regulatory agencies, greed and the status quo > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph.    816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From bulborum@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: How to kill a CBD Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 13:56:08 +0200 Can't say better Tom Roland 2011/9/11 Mark BROWN : > Magnificent post Tom, thank-you! > Mark > > > > >> Message du 11/09/11 11:03 >> De : "Tom Mitchell" >> A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> Copie à : >> Objet : [pbs] How to kill a CBD -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From loujost@yahoo.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <1315749092.23606.YahooMailClassic@web120527.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: lou jost Subject: CBD again Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 06:51:32 -0700 (PDT) This is a great discussion. As an immigrant to a "third world" country, I just want to give people some perspective on how these developing countries (or at least the regulatory authorities in these countries) think about the CBD. I am not endorsing their position, just reporting it. Because of the long exploitative colonial history of most of these countries, there is a strong sentiment that foreigners should no longer be allowed to come into these countries, take something of value back to their own country, and make money on it, without giving anything back to the country of origin. That is what the CBD expresses; conservation is not its motivation (on this side of the aisle). What they call "biopiracy" is especially irritating in the case of medicinal plants or animals (eg some frogs), because the people who take these things often make use of local knowledge, and then when they get back home, they patent the medicine, or even trademark the local name, sometimes make millions, and charge a lot for it here in the country where the plant is native. They often do not realize the amount of testing needed, nor the amount of investigation and technology that goes into identifying and extracting the active ingredient. But the perception is one of profiteering off their resources. However, the unworkability of the CBD is not usually mentioned. Most plants occupy more than one country. If a plant discovered in Ecuador turns out to be profitable and later is also found in Colombia, do 50% of the profits that were shared with Ecuador have to be returned and given to Colombia? The real irony of the CBD when applied to whole plants for horticulture is that large segments of the economy of every country in the world depend on non-native plants that were "stolen" from other countries. In the central Andean valley of Ecuador, where most of the people live, there are virtually no native trees left. Forestry is based on eucalyptus taken from Australia and pines taken from California, Europe, and elsewhere. Cattle and sheep and goats, all taken from Eurasia. Corn is an important crop, taken from Mexico. Wheat taken from Eurasia. Rice taken from N America. Bananas, the export that Ecuador is best known for, taken from Asia. Huge profits are made on all these products, orders of magnitude greater than any money made off ornamental plants. Should they be paying the rest of the world a portion of those agricultural and forestry profits!? If not, why should other countries be obliged to do so? That inconsistency is my biggest problem with the CBD. Lou From ds429@comcast.net Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <1926738475.1222870.1315754642180.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: Pacific BX 285 Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:24:02 +0000 (UTC) I have received your order.   Best wishes, Dell   Dell Sherk, PBS BX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam & Matt" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 4:40:46 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 285 Hi Dell,     I would like :     16     17                     Thanks Matt. Pam and Matt Gerrish 10 Verey Court Dandenong Vic 3175 Australia pammatto1@bigpond.com -----Original Message----- From: Dell Sherk Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 2:01 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' ; 'Mark Wilcox' ; 'Roger Macfarlane' Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 285 Dear All,        The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared.   If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 285" in the subject line.         Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/ share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS.     Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org ....          If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact me for instructions before sending seeds.             I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! >From Fereydoun Sharifi: SEEDS: (SUPPLIES ARE LIMITED) 1. Cyclamen cilicium album 2. Cyclamen repandum ssp repandum fa album 3. Cyclamen rohlfsianum 4. Cyclamen xhildebrandii 5. Cyclamen xsaundersiae 6. Cyclamen balericum 7. Cyclamen pelaponnesiacum 8. Cyclamen xwhitei 9. Cyclamen xwellensiekii 10. Tulbaghia comminsii 11. Tulbaghia ludwigiana 12. Tulbaghia galpini 13. Tulbaghia cernua 14. Tulbaghia capensis 15. Dipcadi marlothii 16. Bobartia aphylla 17. Cyrthanthus breviflorus 18. Aristea ecklonii >From Kathleen Sayce: 19. Bulbils of Lilium lancifolium >From Jim Shields: 20. Seed of Haemanthus humilis humilis 21. Bulbs of Lachenalia viridiflora, ex Robinett 22. Bulbs of Lachenalia reflexa 23. Bulbs of Lachenalia bulbifera, ex Silverhill 24. Bulbs of Lachenalia rubida rubra, ex Longwood >From Shirley Meneice: 25. Cormels that were on the bloom stalk of a gigantic chasmanthe.  In a clump of them, one bloom stalk grew to 7 feet high with whorls of orangey-red flowers in 9 tiers.  The top four blooms were arranged in the usual manner of a chasmanthe.  The latter had no bulbils. As you will see, the rest of the stem was quite "reproductive".  Unfortunately my gardener cut the stalk, so I cannot tell what bulb in the original clump produced such a strange bloom.  It will be interesting to see if it continues its amazing performance next year. Thank you. Fereydoun, Kathleen. Jim, and Shirley. Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From arbolito@aol.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <002d01cc709b$7f496520$7ddc2f60$@com> From: "Jim Bauml" Subject: Pacific BX 285 Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 10:57:21 -0500 Dear Dell, Please send: 1. Cyclamen cilicium album 2. Cyclamen repandum ssp repandum f. album 3. Cyclamen rohlfsianum 4. Cyclamen xhildebrandii 5. Cyclamen xsaundersiae 6. Cyclamen balericum 7. Cyclamen pelaponnesiacum 8. Cyclamen xwhitei 9. Cyclamen xwellensiekii 10. Tulbaghia comminsii 11. Tulbaghia ludwigiana 12. Tulbaghia galpini 13. Tulbaghia cernua 14. Tulbaghia capensis 15. Dipcadi marlothii 16. Bobartia aphylla 17. Cyrthanthus breviflorus 19. Lilium lancifolium 20. Haemanthus humilis humilis 21. Lachenalia viridiflora 22. Lachenalia reflexa 23. Lachenalia bulbifera 24. Lachenalia rubida rubra 25. Chasmanthe Thank you, Jim Bauml From xerantheum@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Pacific BX 285 Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 09:29:04 -0700 Hi Dell, I would like 13. Tulbaghia cernua 15. Dipcadi marlothii Thank you! Nhu On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 9:01 PM, Dell Sherk wrote: > Dear All, > > The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. > > If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY > at . Include "BX 285" in the subject line. > > Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not > specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, > too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first > come, > first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, > included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of > seeds or $3 -$5/ share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to > ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS > treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, > or > international postage. > > PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A > SURCHARGE > ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. > > Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not > members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO > MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage > of future offers such as this. Go to our website: > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... > > If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors > will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their > donations.), > please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: > > Dell Sherk > 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. > New Hope, PA, 18938 > USA > > Non US donors should contact me for instructions before sending seeds. > > I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. > IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! > > >From Fereydoun Sharifi: > > SEEDS: > > (SUPPLIES ARE LIMITED) > > 1. Cyclamen cilicium album > 2. Cyclamen repandum ssp repandum fa album > 3. Cyclamen rohlfsianum > 4. Cyclamen xhildebrandii > 5. Cyclamen xsaundersiae > 6. Cyclamen balericum > 7. Cyclamen pelaponnesiacum > 8. Cyclamen xwhitei > 9. Cyclamen xwellensiekii > 10. Tulbaghia comminsii > 11. Tulbaghia ludwigiana > 12. Tulbaghia galpini > 13. Tulbaghia cernua > 14. Tulbaghia capensis > 15. Dipcadi marlothii > 16. Bobartia aphylla > 17. Cyrthanthus breviflorus > 18. Aristea ecklonii > > >From Kathleen Sayce: > > 19. Bulbils of Lilium lancifolium > > >From Jim Shields: > > 20. Seed of Haemanthus humilis humilis > 21. Bulbs of Lachenalia viridiflora, ex Robinett > 22. Bulbs of Lachenalia reflexa > 23. Bulbs of Lachenalia bulbifera, ex Silverhill > 24. Bulbs of Lachenalia rubida rubra, ex Longwood > > >From Shirley Meneice: > > 25. Cormels that were on the bloom stalk of a gigantic chasmanthe. In a > clump of them, one bloom stalk grew to 7 feet high with whorls of > orangey-red flowers in 9 tiers. The top four blooms were arranged in the > usual manner of a chasmanthe. The latter had no bulbils. As you will see, > the rest of the stem was quite "reproductive". Unfortunately my gardener > cut the stalk, so I cannot tell what bulb in the original clump produced > such a strange bloom. It will be interesting to see if it continues its > amazing performance next year. > > Thank you. Fereydoun, Kathleen. Jim, and Shirley. > > Best wishes, > Dell > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From totototo@telus.net Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <4E6C89D0.25838.65420@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: The CBD guide to shooting yourself in the foot Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 10:13:36 -0700 On 11 Sep 2011, at 9:32, Peter Taggart wrote: > The actions of responsable conservators not 'keeping all their eggs in one > basket' That's a well known principle even amongst mere hobby gardeners. E. A. Bowles makes a point in one of his books that it's a wise gardener who shares his special plants freely, so that when *his* specimen dies, others will be in a position to replace it. Example, though not geophytic: There's a lovely pink, 'Salmon Clove', famous for living up to its name with its salmon-colored flowers and their strong scent of cloves. I acquired this plant a good 30 years ago from one of the Old Dears™ in the local horticultural society. Somewhere along the line I lost it, though whether from an overly wet winter, simple neglect, or failure to renew it via cuttings I can't say. Last year a long-time gardening buddy asked me if I'd like a start of it. My eyes went wide and yes yes yes was the answer: I'd clean forgotten about it with the passage of time. He must have had it for over twenty years, keeping it going. My plant is flourishing, has been flowering all summer long, and I've had the gumption to start a bunch of cuttings: pinks gradually go woody and peter out so restarting them from cuttings is essential to keeping them going. Moral: be generous with your plants, especially the rarities that it took a long time to acquire! Sub-moral: but not indiscriminately generous. There are plenty of hobby gardeners with a gimme-gimme attitude who think they are entitled to a start of anything and everything, but who do not have the skill, experience, and conditions necessary for successful growth. *That* type deserves a fishy-eyed gaze when they beg for things they don't really appreciate. Ida Bennett, in her book "The Flower Garden", offers some amusing advice on handling the gimme-gimme type: when they "accidentally" break off a twig and ask if they can have it as a cutting, reply, "Oh, gee, I'm glad you reminded me. I've been meaning to take cuttings of that. Here, let me have it." And then dibble it directly into the ground. So spread your plants around; that way, when your garden is flattened by a meteorite or a rampageous dinosaur, you won't lose your treasures. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada From Tony@plantdelights.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tony Avent Subject: Convention on Biological Diversity Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 13:26:49 -0400 Boyce; Let me ask a few questions if I might based on your comments below "At the same time, staff with responsibility for building and maintaining genetic diversity within our collections continue to collect plants. The plants we bring back are evaluated for a number of years before they make it into the general collections in an effort to avoid bringing invasive plants into the USA. The role of botanic gardens and arboreta as biological arks can not be overstated. *Ex situ* collections are the 'last best hope' when all else fails." Why is ex situ collections the last best hope? From a purely logical point of view, shouldn't this be the first line of hope...not the last. It's easier, faster, and from a statistical analysis, greatly increases the chance of survivability. Nowhere in your note did you ever mention plant distribution...only plant hoarding. Is this because the Chicago Botanic Garden doesn't adhere to the importance of widespread distribution of germplasm? As Dick Lighty so eloquently pointed out in the Plant Exploration Symposium at CBG, things like the overhyped invasive issue serves only to justify a lack of effort on the part of botanic gardens to distribute plants they have collected. Over the last 50 years, it would be interesting to know how many plants CBG has collected in the wild, how many of those are still alive, and how many have been widely distributed. Perhaps I simply don't know of the wide distribution efforts made by most botanical gardens. Please share that information with the group so we can see the error of our views...thanks! Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Boyce Tankersley Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 3:49 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Convention on Biological Diversity At the same time, staff with responsibility for building and maintaining genetic diversity within our collections continue to collect plants. The plants we bring back are evaluated for a number of years before they make it into the general collections in an effort to avoid bringing invasive plants into the USA. The role of botanic gardens and arboreta as biological arks can not be overstated. *Ex situ* collections are the 'last best hope' when all else fails. CBG's approach to the CBD has been developed over many years based upon experiences overseas and is a reflection of the current state of affairs - if we want to collect in these countries we have to obey their laws. Their laws, in most cases, are based on one or more interpretations of the CBD. So the voluntary aspect (USA hasn't signed) is not really voluntary once we start to work beyond the USA. I believe there are meetings where scientists and governments discuss changes/improvements to the CBD so there is hope that some of the less effective aspects will be modified. Each botanic garden or arboretum, within the confines of national and international law, is free to adopt the approach(s) that best fits what they think is important. Perspectives within the botanic garden community differ widely as you can imagine with 450 institutions in the USA and 2,300 Worldwide. It has been heartening to read the comments related to the importance so many on the Pacific Bulb Society listserve place on conservation of rare and endangered bulbs and the efforts taken at your own expense to do whatever you can. After reading through the posts, I think we all realize none of us really have all of the answers yet, but with so many enthusiastic, dedicated and intelligent people working towards the same goal there is hope. Many thanks, Boyce Tankersley Director of Living Plant Documentation Chicago Botanic Garden 1000 Lake Cook Road Glencoe, IL 60022 > > From msittner@mcn.org Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <20110911180134.8350EE941C@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Sharing plants with others Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 11:01:26 -0700 All this talk about conserving plants and especially Rodger's last post about sharing reminds me of the visits we had with Sir Peter Smithers in Switzerland and Harry Hay in England. Both had amazing gardens with high levels of diversity and both believed in sharing with others. Although they never asked for anything in exchange, a lot of people wanted to give back and searched for special material to give them. Peter talked of some wonderful plants people brought him that he never would have had access to. He suggested that we visit a local Arboretum and when we did and talked to someone there we learned that a large part of their collection had begun with cuttings from the Smithers' garden. Years ago we came up with the idea of the BX as a way to share with each other. It probably generates a tiny profit to help with other costs of running the Pacific Bulb Society, but this is not really a money generating project, but just a way that people can share their extras. It probably never would have been as successful as it has been if it were not for the dedication of Dell who has been in charge since 2002 and helped IBS with the same before then. That's a very long time to do such a time consuming job. No doubt some of the offerings go to people who may not live in places where it will be easy to grow what they order, but I'm sure we have a number of people with success. When someone offers something they originally got from the BX and continues the circle of giving it is especially nice. This list also brings people together who share the same interests and I'm sure a lot of private trades or gifts result as well. Thanks to all of you in this group who give (seeds, bulbs, helpful information, volunteer time for the Bulb Garden, the wiki, the Pacific Bulb Society). Mary Sue From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Sharing plants with others Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 20:08:45 +0000 " if it were not for the dedication of Dell who has been in charge > since 2002 and helped IBS with the same before then. That's a very > long time to do such a time consuming job. No doubt some of the > offerings go to people who may not live in places where it will be > easy to grow what they order, but I'm sure we have a number of people > with success. When someone offers something they originally got from > the BX and continues the circle of giving it is especially nice." While this is evidently true and we all thank Dell for his efforts, it would be unfair not mention that on many, I emphasize, many, occasions most or the whole burden of the BX was supported by Mary Sue's generous donations. Some times known items but on others very rare ones were supplied to be shared through the BX from her extensive collection. Keeping the BX on its feet is hard work and at certain times of the year the material available for sharing dwindles away and along comes Mary Sue with an injection of his seeds and bulbs. If we have to thank all the efforts generously shared we can not fail to mention hers over years. From rvanderhoff@sbcglobal.net Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <1315772958.41883.yint-ygo-j2me@web81008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ron Vanderhoff Subject: (no subject) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 13:29:18 -0700 (PDT) It’s a pleasure to deal with this company.. http://sign-serve.co.uk/clickfriend.php?jmaolid=18en2 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From bulborum@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: (no subject) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 23:01:18 +0200 This is a pharmacie spam site My antispam is warning for this site Roland 2011/9/11 Ron Vanderhoff : > It’s a pleasure to deal with this company.. http://sign-serve.co.uk/clickfriend.php?jmaolid=18en2 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: (no subject) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 22:47:08 +0100 Page wouldnt load for me. On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 10:01 PM, bulborum botanicum wrote: > This is a pharmacie spam site > My antispam is warning for this site > > Roland > > 2011/9/11 Ron Vanderhoff : > > It’s a pleasure to deal with this company.. > http://sign-serve.co.uk/clickfriend.php?jmaolid=18en2 > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > -- > R de Boer > La Maugardiere 1 > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email: bulborum@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From robin@no1bird.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <86EEAC30893447AE9476FCF7E8863F0D@RobinPC> From: "Robin Carrier" Subject: CBD Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 18:43:47 -0400 christian book distributors? central business district? -------------------------------------------------- From: "Mark BROWN" Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 7:47 AM To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Subject: Re: [pbs] How to kill a CBD > Magnificent post Tom, thank-you! > Mark > > > > >> Message du 11/09/11 11:03 >> De : "Tom Mitchell" >> A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> Copie à : >> Objet : [pbs] How to kill a CBD >> >> I'm sure that most readers of the PBS list want to get back to talking >> about bulbs. The enthusiasm for growing plants - as many and as varied as >> possible - that shines from every post on this forum is its defining >> characteristic. My policy proposal would be to harness that enthusiasm to >> the ends of plant conservation by doing exactly what we are doing...but >> more of it. > > Several members of the forum have mentioned the UK's system of 'National > Collections'. In principle this is a great idea but the Charity that runs > the scheme, Plant Heritage is fatally damaged by its self-imposed slavish > adherence to treaties such as the CBD and CITES. One national collection > holder recently told me that he had collected seed of his favourite genus > on a field trip in South America and had raised and was selling plants > from this source. He was threatened with expulsion from the scheme because > 'we cannot be seen to be condoning _____ breaking the law.' > > Why not establish an informal network of US-based 'International > Collections'? The huge advantage to basing such an organisation in the USA > is that it is the only large, wealthy country that has not signed the CBD. > You can thumb your nose at it without fear of prosecution. Don't limit the > number of collections per genus. The more, the better. Don't make the > mistake of appointing a committee or allowing one to appoint itself. The > committee will immediately become part of the establishment and want to > insist on complying with the CBD and you'll be back to square one. > > As for the CBD, my advice is to ignore it. As I said, treat it with the > contempt it deserves. We cannot change it from within, so let's destroy it > from without. > > With any new law it is wise to ask the Roman Senator Cassius's question - > 'cui bono', who benefits? In the case of the CBD the answer is > emphatically not biodiversity, for all the reasons previously discussed. > In the case of the CBD, no-one benefits because it is toothless and > routinely ignored. The would-be beneficiaries, however, are the > bureaucrats, who get to attend conferences in fancy hotels to negotiate > these things, their political masters, who can claim to their bone-headed > electorates to be 'doing something' and the business interests that pull > the puppets' strings. It is instructive to quote from an email I received > while I was writing this from a friend who has worked all his life as a > conservation biologist. > > 'You can imagine that, in 1992 [the 'Earth Summit', where the CBD was > born], every nation state arrived at the table with strict instructions > from their respective despots back at home to fight, tooth and nail, for > their self-interests. More, they are not to sign off on anything that > will damage their development process, as they see it. Translated, this > means that they don't want to sign off to anything that will cost money > for any industry in which the Big Men, back at home, have vested > interests. They don't want to have an aggressive, fang-bearing lion > that'll come and bite them later in the arse.' > > Another friend, a high-ranking conservationist, who works at the front > line of bird conservation, wrote even more revealingly in response to an > earlier diatribe of mine against the CBD: > > ' I especially love your treatise on the CBD - I share your views but can > not express them as I work for an NGO and we have to praise it.' > > 'We have to praise it.' These two guys are passionate conservationists and > have taken poorly paid, insecure jobs in an effort to promote biodiversity > conservation. Yet they cannot say what they think if they want to keep > these jobs. We are on our own, I'm afraid, but collectively we are up to > the task. > > Best wishes, > > Tom > > > > > > >> Some might suggest that an organization like PBS or NARGS or >> AGS or even AHS and RHS campaign to resolve the issue of propagation >> and distribution, but there seem to be complicities within >> complicities and well meaning do-gooders preventing all the most >> desirable results. >> >> I don't have a clue to even an approach to an answer, but the >> current situation seems foolish at best. >> >> Tom and Boyce can you suggest the first step to resolve this? >> A step that shows cooperation between both the regulators and >> authorities, and the growers and gardeners who might implement some >> changes? >> >> BestJim W. >> >> * as well as national regulatory agencies, greed and the status quo >> -- >> Dr. James W. Waddick >> 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. >> Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 >> USA >> Ph. 816-746-1949 >> Zone 5 Record low -23F >> Summer 100F + > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From santoury@aol.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:40:16 -0700 Message-Id: <8CE3EF8C0BEFFB5-2708-288B6@webmail-m157.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Back to BULBS Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 20:19:21 -0400 (EDT) I second that - Jim had just reminded us to talk about bulbs, so let's not disappoint him. So, I'll start us off... I just picked up a cute 4 inch pot crammed full of Eucomis "Leia" - seems it's a new variety (At least to New England.) It appears to be a miniature - the leaves are no more than 8 inches long, and it's in full bloom - The flowers are a beautiful dark Lilac. Not having a sense of smell, I don't know how fragrant it is, or not. Any other Eucomis growers here ? ______________________________________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you want to receive my plant newsletters via email? santoury@aol.com The Silent Seed - Rare and Unusual Plants ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Tom Mitchell To: pbs Sent: Sun, Sep 11, 2011 1:03 am Subject: [pbs] How to kill a CBD I'm sure that most readers of the PBS list want to get back to talking about bulbs. The enthusiasm for growing plants - as many and as varied as possible - that shines from every post on this forum is its defining characteristic. My policy proposal would be to harness that enthusiasm to the ends of plant conservation by doing exactly what we are doing...but more of it. Several members of the forum have mentioned the UK's system of 'National Collections'. In principle this is a great idea but the Charity that runs the scheme, Plant Heritage is fatally damaged by its self-imposed slavish adherence to treaties such as the CBD and CITES. One national collection holder recently told me that he had collected seed of his favourite genus on a field trip in South America and had raised and was selling plants from this source. He was threatened with expulsion from the scheme because 'we cannot be seen to be condoning _____ breaking the law.' Why not establish an informal network of US-based 'International Collections'? The huge advantage to basing such an organisation in the USA is that it is the only large, wealthy country that has not signed the CBD. You can thumb your nose at it without fear of prosecution. Don't limit the number of collections per genus. The more, the better. Don't make the mistake of appointing a committee or allowing one to appoint itself. The committee will immediately become part of the establishment and want to insist on complying with the CBD and you'll be back to square one. As for the CBD, my advice is to ignore it. As I said, treat it with the contempt it deserves. We cannot change it from within, so let's destroy it from without. With any new law it is wise to ask the Roman Senator Cassius's question - 'cui bono', who benefits? In the case of the CBD the answer is emphatically not biodiversity, for all the reasons previously discussed. In the case of the CBD, no-one benefits because it is toothless and routinely ignored. The would-be beneficiaries, however, are the bureaucrats, who get to attend conferences in fancy hotels to negotiate these things, their political masters, who can claim to their bone-headed electorates to be 'doing something' and the business interests that pull the puppets' strings. It is instructive to quote from an email I received while I was writing this from a friend who has worked all his life as a conservation biologist. 'You can imagine that, in 1992 [the 'Earth Summit', where the CBD was born], every nation state arrived at the table with strict instructions from their respective despots back at home to fight, tooth and nail, for their self-interests. More, they are not to sign off on anything that will damage their development process, as they see it. Translated, this means that they don't want to sign off to anything that will cost money for any industry in which the Big Men, back at home, have vested interests. They don't want to have an aggressive, fang-bearing lion that'll come and bite them later in the arse.' Another friend, a high-ranking conservationist, who works at the front line of bird conservation, wrote even more revealingly in response to an earlier diatribe of mine against the CBD: ' I especially love your treatise on the CBD - I share your views but can not express them as I work for an NGO and we have to praise it.' 'We have to praise it.' These two guys are passionate conservationists and have taken poorly paid, insecure jobs in an effort to promote biodiversity conservation. Yet they cannot say what they think if they want to keep these jobs. We are on our own, I'm afraid, but collectively we are up to the task. Best wishes, Tom > Some might suggest that an organization like PBS or NARGS or > AGS or even AHS and RHS campaign to resolve the issue of propagation > and distribution, but there seem to be complicities within > complicities and well meaning do-gooders preventing all the most > desirable results. > > I don't have a clue to even an approach to an answer, but the > current situation seems foolish at best. > > Tom and Boyce can you suggest the first step to resolve this? > A step that shows cooperation between both the regulators and > authorities, and the growers and gardeners who might implement some > changes? > > Best Jim W. > > * as well as national regulatory agencies, greed and the status quo > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + From jmsjon664@aol.com Sun, 11 Sep 2011 18:08:44 -0700 Message-Id: <8CE3EFF96207AA6-A28-1A321@Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com> From: "James L. Jones" Subject: Back to BULBS; Eucomis Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 21:08:16 -0400 (EDT) I grow Eucomis montana, from Silverhll and NARGS seed. The NARGS one was labeled pallidiflora; it's rather more colorful than the other, a pretty good pink. They've done okay outside and in a cold (very cold) sunhouse, though fitfully in terms of bloom. I've had them for 4 and 7 years and feel I'm still getting the hang of them. Jim (another Jim) Jones Lexington, MA -----Original Message----- From: The Silent Seed To: pbs Sent: Sun, Sep 11, 2011 4:19 pm Subject: [pbs] Back to BULBS I second that - Jim had just reminded us to talk about bulbs, so let's not disappoint him. So, I'll start us off... I just picked up a cute 4 inch pot crammed full of Eucomis "Leia" - seems it's a new variety (At least to New England.) It appears to be a miniature - the leaves are no more than 8 inches long, and it's in full bloom - The flowers are a beautiful dark Lilac. Not having a sense of smell, I don't know how fragrant it is, or not. Any other Eucomis growers here ? ______________________________________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you want to receive my plant newsletters via email? santoury@aol.com The Silent Seed - Rare and Unusual Plants ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Tom Mitchell To: pbs Sent: Sun, Sep 11, 2011 1:03 am Subject: [pbs] How to kill a CBD I'm sure that most readers of the PBS list want to get back to talking about bulbs. The enthusiasm for growing plants - as many and as varied as possible - that shines from every post on this forum is its defining characteristic. My policy proposal would be to harness that enthusiasm to the ends of plant conservation by doing exactly what we are doing...but more of it. Several members of the forum have mentioned the UK's system of 'National Collections'. In principle this is a great idea but the Charity that runs the scheme, Plant Heritage is fatally damaged by its self-imposed slavish adherence to treaties such as the CBD and CITES. One national collection holder recently told me that he had collected seed of his favourite genus on a field trip in South America and had raised and was selling plants from this source. He was threatened with expulsion from the scheme because 'we cannot be seen to be condoning _____ breaking the law.' Why not establish an informal network of US-based 'International Collections'? The huge advantage to basing such an organisation in the USA is that it is the only large, wealthy country that has not signed the CBD. You can thumb your nose at it without fear of prosecution. Don't limit the number of collections per genus. The more, the better. Don't make the mistake of appointing a committee or allowing one to appoint itself. The committee will immediately become part of the establishment and want to insist on complying with the CBD and you'll be back to square one. As for the CBD, my advice is to ignore it. As I said, treat it with the contempt it deserves. We cannot change it from within, so let's destroy it from without. With any new law it is wise to ask the Roman Senator Cassius's question - 'cui bono', who benefits? In the case of the CBD the answer is emphatically not biodiversity, for all the reasons previously discussed. In the case of the CBD, no-one benefits because it is toothless and routinely ignored. The would-be beneficiaries, however, are the bureaucrats, who get to attend conferences in fancy hotels to negotiate these things, their political masters, who can claim to their bone-headed electorates to be 'doing something' and the business interests that pull the puppets' strings. It is instructive to quote from an email I received while I was writing this from a friend who has worked all his life as a conservation biologist. 'You can imagine that, in 1992 [the 'Earth Summit', where the CBD was born], every nation state arrived at the table with strict instructions from their respective despots back at home to fight, tooth and nail, for their self-interests. More, they are not to sign off on anything that will damage their development process, as they see it. Translated, this means that they don't want to sign off to anything that will cost money for any industry in which the Big Men, back at home, have vested interests. They don't want to have an aggressive, fang-bearing lion that'll come and bite them later in the arse.' Another friend, a high-ranking conservationist, who works at the front line of bird conservation, wrote even more revealingly in response to an earlier diatribe of mine against the CBD: ' I especially love your treatise on the CBD - I share your views but can not express them as I work for an NGO and we have to praise it.' 'We have to praise it.' These two guys are passionate conservationists and have taken poorly paid, insecure jobs in an effort to promote biodiversity conservation. Yet they cannot say what they think if they want to keep these jobs. We are on our own, I'm afraid, but collectively we are up to the task. Best wishes, Tom > Some might suggest that an organization like PBS or NARGS or > AGS or even AHS and RHS campaign to resolve the issue of propagation > and distribution, but there seem to be complicities within > complicities and well meaning do-gooders preventing all the most > desirable results. > > I don't have a clue to even an approach to an answer, but the > current situation seems foolish at best. > > Tom and Boyce can you suggest the first step to resolve this? > A step that shows cooperation between both the regulators and > authorities, and the growers and gardeners who might implement some > changes? > > Best Jim W. > > * as well as national regulatory agencies, greed and the status quo > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + From ds429@comcast.net Tue, 13 Sep 2011 17:40:04 -0700 Message-Id: <260837551.1244623.1315790244601.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: The CBD and a guide to shooting yourself in the foot Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 01:17:24 +0000 (UTC) r??z{u??6 Dear All,   I think that th From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 17:40:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1315818385.8145.YahooMailClassic@web86304.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Back to BULBS Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 10:06:25 +0100 (BST) !#content=1457 > I second that - Jim had just reminded > us to talk about b From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Tue, 13 Sep 2011 17:40:04 -0700 Message-Id: <772128177.114836.1315821266748.JavaMail.www@wwinf1m31> From: Mark BROWN Subject: CBD again Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 11:54:26 +0200 (CEST) r??z{x?nAnother very true and fascinating po From msittner@mcn.org Tue, 13 Sep 2011 17:40:05 -0700 Message-Id: <20110912142702.175B0E8CB2@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Please don't include the previous message in your reply Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 07:26:57 -0700 !#content=983 From your unsuccessful cat herder- Yesterd From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Sharing plants with others Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 11:03:10 -0500 " if it were not for the dedication of Dell who has been in charge since 2002 and helped IBS with the same before then. and While this is evidently true and we all thank Dell for his efforts, it would be unfair not mention that on many, I emphasize, many, occasions most or the whole burden of the BX was supported by Mary Sue's generous donations. Some times known items but on others very rare ones were supplied to be shared through the BX from her extensive collection. Dear Friends, These two recent comments and discussion of rare plant collections seem well suited. The PBS BX continues to be a source of extremely rare bulbous plants that are ONLY available from dedicated collectors. Mary Sue has been extremely generous, but the latest BX with a unique selection of Cyclamen offered by new comer Fereydoun Sharifi highlights the value of the BX and PBS. Numerous other donors have been very generous with seeds and bulbs of plants that are totally unavailable through any other means AND at ridiculously low cost. Many are extremely rare in the wild, prohibitively expensive or very difficult to obtain. I have to remind all members of this FREE on line elist that it is supported totally through the paid membership in PBS. Membership in PBS also allows readers to purchase these bargain rarities posted on the BX. This is a very cooperative relationship. Joining PBS helps to support this discussion, allows purchase of an amazing selection of BX offerings and much more. Volunteers like Dell, Mary Sue and many others make all the wheels turn. The PBS BOD meets regularly to improve all offerings of PBS. Conservation is just one of PBS' core interests. Congrats to all involved. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jshields@indy.net Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20110912132246.033fb020@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: What's blooming now - week of Sept 12, 2011 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 13:33:28 -0400 Hi all, In the garden, the first Colchicum of the season, C. cilicicum, is just now blooming. None of the other Colchicum I have are showing anything above ground so far. On the deck, the tiny pink flowers of Nerine gracilis (or maybe N. hesseoides?) are just starting. There are scapes showing but no color yet on the dwarf form of Nerine angustifolia. N. filifolia is also showing scapes, which are much taller this year than in past years. In the greenhouse, Haemanthus barkerae is in full bloom, with its small pink "paintbrush" blooms. Also showing buds are Haemanthus pubescens pubescens and H. pubescens arenicolus. Haemanthus dasyphyllus is showing a bloom as well. H. coccineus bulbs continue to show new blooms, and the hybrids H. [barkerae x coccineus] and [coccineus x barkerae] are blooming like mad. This is one of my favorite times of the year in the greenhouse. I'll try to get pictures of these somewhere on-line sometime in the next week. Regards, Jim Shields ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From joshuakyleyoung@gmail.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: Joshua Young Subject: What's blooming now - week of Sept 12, 2011 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 13:36:03 -0400 Hi Guys ;) This week I have Hippeastrum ferreyrae sending up scapes as well as another Hippeastrum papilio x brasilianum. I also have a few Australian Hippeastrum hybrids readying to bloom! Josh www.fortheloveofbulbs.blogspot.com From ksayce@willapabay.org Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: <5798CA81-DB6D-4000-B5A3-AA41560621C3@willapabay.org> From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: what's blooming this week Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 10:39:02 -0700 Here in the coastal Pacific Northwest, after the hottest weather of the year (mid 80s, don't get excited, no triple digit temperatures here this year), Leucojum autumnalis has popped up the very first flowers, the patch of Amaryllis belladonna is in full flower, as is Cyclamen hederifolium. A new bulb to me, Zephryanthes grandiflora, with lovely large pink flowers, is also in full bloom. The lilies are near the end, with Lilium lancifolium and L. 'Black Beauty' opening their last flowers, and L. rubrum about to open its first bud. The rest have varying numbers of seed pods starting to ripen. I had time this year to boost pollination and selfed a few of them, so hope for some seed pods later on, if storms don't knock down the stalks. Also a surprise: a red flowered day lily has a nice pod ripening. I'm generally not very interested in this genus, slugs find them too attractive in my climate, so may send any seeds it produces to the seed exchange, if others are interested. Cheers, Kathleen PNW coast, cool dry summers, mild wet winters, salty and windy, gardening in silty sand on Willapa Bay From joshuakyleyoung@gmail.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: Joshua Young Subject: what's blooming this week Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 13:46:47 -0400 Kathleen, Isn't Z. grandiflora just wonderful, I forgot to mention I have some in bloom as well! Josh -- http://www.fortheloveofbulbs.blogspot.com/ From ton1.wijnen@planet.nl Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Ton Wijnen" Subject: What's blooming now - week of Sept 12, 2011 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 20:20:29 +0200 Fantastic!!!! Ton Wijnen -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] Namens Joshua Young Verzonden: maandag 12 september 2011 19:36 Aan: Pacific Bulb Society Onderwerp: Re: [pbs] What's blooming now - week of Sept 12, 2011 Hi Guys ;) This week I have Hippeastrum ferreyrae sending up scapes as well as another Hippeastrum papilio x brasilianum. I also have a few Australian Hippeastrum hybrids readying to bloom! Josh www.fortheloveofbulbs.blogspot.com From mwalnik@wodip.opole.pl Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: <2CCEFED049B6401BBC85C24289BAC99C@MarekKomputer> From: "Marek Walnik" Subject: What's blooming now - week of Sept 12, 2011 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 20:57:12 +0200 As I stated earlier, I am gardening now only on windowsills – at home, at work, and at my mothers. This year’s summer was not favorable for my plants. Now only Zephyranthes candida is in bloom. I did not hope that it would flower at all, as I had to repot it – the crowding bulbs burst their pot. But some bulbs are flowering now – it is their normal time here. By the way – how to name the scent of flowers of Z. candida? Z. grandiflora was flowering all the summer at my mothers. Scadoxus multiflorus ssp. katharinae, that used to flower on August missed its flowering for the second year. Eucharis grandiflora I had to put half a meter farther from a window, and it seems to be for it to far to bloom this year. So I must to satisfy of my cacti – they flower this year one flower after another but all the summer. Marek Walnik, Glucholazy, PL (about 50,32 N, 17,38 E) _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jmsjon664@aol.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: <8CE3FBFA7557DB4-A28-2668F@Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com> From: "James L. Jones" Subject: Allium tuberosum Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 20:03:08 -0400 (EDT) The mention of Allium tuberosum earlier has prodded me to pass on an observation I've been making regarding pollinators. The plight of the honeybee (Apis mellifera) is well known and has been evident here, with numbers way below those of the past. However, suddenly, over the last few days I've been seeing them in some abundance, but only on A. tuberosum. That onion grows mixed with A. 'Constellation" (nice effect) but the honeybees stick to the white one, though 'Constellation' is swarming with bumblebees (Bombus sp), which have been in abundance all season. Does this mean I'll get a bumper crop of seeds on tuberosum? Oh joy. Jim Jones Lexington, MA From loujost@yahoo.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: <1315875093.13398.YahooMailClassic@web120530.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: lou jost Subject: repeating entire threads Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 17:51:33 -0700 (PDT) Thanks Mary Sue!!! It has been really getting crazy lately. From kimcmich@hotmail.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: Annual Veratrum request Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 18:58:21 -0700 Tom, As luck would have it I was camping in Sequoia National Forest in the California southern Sierra this weekend and found a nice stand of V. californicum with mature seed. I collected the open-fruited bloom stalks from several different clumps. I have exact location data. Let me know what I should do about storing and sending these to you. If possible, I'd love to trade for some Crocosmia. I have the usual red-orange form collected from the roadside years ago and would love anything different from that... I addition, I know the location of a population of V. fimbriatum. It's a few hours north from my house along the coast. If you'd like to reimburse me for gas, I could make a special trip there to check for seed. I assume V. fimbriatum matures seed in late summer too? If you'd just as soon wait until I'm next there on my own, I'll be sure to check for seed for you. I'm not a Veratrum fanatic, but I do like to see people doing good work curating plant collections. There are never enough. -| From: tom@evolution-plants.com > Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 21:27:43 +0100 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [pbs] Annual Veratrum request > > Every year at about this time I start to fret about the uncollected Veratrum seeds maturing rapidly around the world. With sincere apologies to those whom I have bored with this request in the past, can I repeat my plea that anyone who has access to wild populations of Veratrum or its sister genus Melanthium get in touch? I'm working hard on assembling a comprehensive collection of Veratrum species but am missing authentic material of the common North American species V. californicum and V. viride. I'd love to obtain V. insolitum and V. fimbriatum from California but I realise these two species are exceedingly rare. Still, if you don't ask... > > I have lots of bulbs - including many Crocosmia cvs, to pick up on Jim W's recent thread - and seeds to swap and would also happily reimburse anyone prepared to make a special seed collecting trip for any of these species. > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From michaelcmace@gmail.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: <009801cc71cd$e5574d40$b005e7c0$@com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: What's blooming week of September 12 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 21:30:38 -0700 The Les Hannibal Amaryllis hybrids here are at about the mid-point in their blooming process now. Some of the bulbs have already finished; others are still in bud. Amaryllis seem to start a bit later for me than they do in most of the Bay Area. I'm not sure why; my neighborhood is a bit warmer and dryer than the rest of the area, and you'd think that would lead to earlier blooms not later ones. Haemanthus amarylloides, my nominee for the world's most boring Amaryllid, bloomed in early August and is long since done. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HaemanthusSpeciesOne#ama rylloides Haemanthus barkerae, the second most-boring Amaryllid, just finished blooming. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/HaemanthusSpeciesOne#bar kerae I've tried to cross both of these with A. belladonna, with no success. It's just as well; I can't imagine the flowers would be interesting. The other things blooming now are three Michael Vassar Oxalis: MV5630A, MV4674, and MV5117. All have small lavender-pink flowers over tiny tufts of foliage, and start blooming in late August to early September, a few weeks after I start watering them. As you can see, the flowers look very similar: You can see 4674 and 5630A here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisNine#M V4674 And 5117 here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/SouthAfricanOxalisTwo#co mmutata Because they bloom at almost the same time and the flowers are similar, it's possible that I might be growing one species that accidently spread to the other pots. But Michael Vassar's collection notes describe them all as small lavender or pink flowers, so they may just be similar plants. They are not at all spectacular, but they're cheerful little things, and very welcome at this time of year. Those are the only things in bloom at the moment, but I'm very happy to say that my Brunsvigia marginata has a little bud just starting to poke up above the soil. This will be its second year to bloom. Mike San Jose, CA From michaelcmace@gmail.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: <00b201cc71dd$4ea2e070$ebe8a150$@com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Collection holders Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:20:59 -0700 Tom wrote: >> Why not establish an informal network of US-based 'International Collections'? I really, really, really like Tom's idea. To build on it a little bit, here's what I picture: --A collection holder would be recognized by us (the PBS) as someone with expertise and enthusiasm about a particular genus, plus a good collection of it. As Tom mentioned, we could have more than one collection holder for a genus, and in fact that would be better because we'd be less at risk of losing rare species to a single disaster. To give a couple of examples, I think Bob Werra would qualify for Moraea, and Jane McG. for Calochortus (and for a lot of other things). --We would identify collection holders on the wiki. --Collection holders would be informal information sources on the genus. If you have a question about how to grow it, they'd be a good resource to ask. --Collection holders would also attempt to spread the genus by sharing seeds and excess corms. --Finally, collection holders would be expected to make plans to preserve their collections after they're no longer around. This could be facilitated through the PBS. For example, if I get hit by a bus, my wife has instructions to call Mary Sue and invite the PBS over to take charge of my bulbs. Most of those are things we'd all do anyway, so what's the incentive to be a collection holder? Status, for one thing. But also, we all ought to also make sure that a collection holder gets first crack at a rare species when seed of it becomes available, on the assumption that they'll have the best chance of propagating it successfully and sharing it with others. What do you think? Mike From bulborum@gmail.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Collection holders Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:45:04 +0200 Fantastic Idea But why just US Roland Why not establish an informal network of US-based 'International > Collections'? > > I really, really, really like Tom's idea. > > What do you think? > > Mike -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From davidfenwicksnr@googlemail.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: <1E836440832E434C8DAFBDBC2E14D669@david8op7y0t1o> From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Collection holders Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:55:05 +0100 Roland, There's already a well established National Collections Scheme in France called the CCVS, they have been going quite some time. http://www.ccvs-france.org/ . Mike, the problem in setting up any collection scheme is with who sets the rules, and what the rules will be, in setting standards and maintaining them; e.g. in the UK we don't have what is called 'Display Collections' yet to my knowledge, a grower may be incredibly experienced in growing a genus, have one of the best collections of any genus, but may not satisfy the criterior set by the scheme. Schemes are also largely run by volunteers, and plant knowledge and interpretation of scheme rules is quite a problem; and this would be especially difficult in larger countries. For the US you'd probably have to look another similarly large country, and say at the Australian model, GPCAA http://gpcaa.typepad.com/settings/ There's also the fact that many people will go for collection status for shear cudos, and collect for collectings sake, or as in a few cases in the UK use collection status just for marketing purposes, for their nursery etc.; this latter point could be a huge problem in an economic climate such as this. The question then is how do you separate the nurseries; from those out for making money from their ''collections'', from those totally dedicated nurserymen who have been growing and researching for years and who are more interested in the plants and have many years experience. The UK is regarded as having one of the best national collection schemes, however it is still far from perfect in my opinion, and getting collection status is probably far too easy ! It's a minefield !!! Sometimes it is just best to record and report those who share an interest who want to share that interest with others and I can see the PBS doing this very well indeed. Although the other point that should run alongside this tread is that there's a lot of experience within and outside the PBS, and experienced people who don't have collections, don't want or cannot have collections. Shouldn't we also be talking about the value of a referee scheme as well ! >>>>>Status, for one thing. But also, we all ought to also make sure that a collection holder gets first crack at a rare species when seed of it becomes available, on the assumption that they'll have the best chance of propagating it successfully and sharing it with others. Very well put !!! This should happen, and as you say should be a priority. However in my experience, very rarely are collection holders offered anything, despite how experienced and how well known they are; and most collection holders dedicate a lot of time to adding acquisitions themselves; which mostly involves some form of exchange in material. To be honest you're probably better off making friends with very generous people, than expect this to happen. LOL. Best Wishes, Dave (Penzance, Cornwall, UK) From bulborum@gmail.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Collection holders Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:07:54 +0200 David The ccvs lives in an Ivory tower I was member and applied for a collection You don't want to hear the rest of the story Roland > Roland, > There's already a well established National Collections Scheme in France > called the CCVS, they have been going quite some time. > http://www.ccvs-france.org/ . -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From Tony@plantdelights.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tony Avent Subject: Collection holders Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 07:01:04 -0400 Folks: I'm not sure how many folks realize, but there is already a National Collections Program in place in the US....comprised, of course, solely of botanic garden. We looked at participating since we have the largest collections of many genera, but found the paperwork and reporting far too complex and onerous...what a shame. http://www.ars-grin.gov/npgs/napcc.html Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Michael Mace Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 2:21 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Collection holders Tom wrote: >> Why not establish an informal network of US-based 'International Collections'? I really, really, really like Tom's idea. To build on it a little bit, here's what I picture: --A collection holder would be recognized by us (the PBS) as someone with expertise and enthusiasm about a particular genus, plus a good collection of it. As Tom mentioned, we could have more than one collection holder for a genus, and in fact that would be better because we'd be less at risk of losing rare species to a single disaster. To give a couple of examples, I think Bob Werra would qualify for Moraea, and Jane McG. for Calochortus (and for a lot of other things). --We would identify collection holders on the wiki. --Collection holders would be informal information sources on the genus. If you have a question about how to grow it, they'd be a good resource to ask. --Collection holders would also attempt to spread the genus by sharing seeds and excess corms. --Finally, collection holders would be expected to make plans to preserve their collections after they're no longer around. This could be facilitated through the PBS. For example, if I get hit by a bus, my wife has instructions to call Mary Sue and invite the PBS over to take charge of my bulbs. Most of those are things we'd all do anyway, so what's the incentive to be a collection holder? Status, for one thing. But also, we all ought to also make sure that a collection holder gets first crack at a rare species when seed of it becomes available, on the assumption that they'll have the best chance of propagating it successfully and sharing it with others. What do you think? Mike From dkramb@badbear.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Collection holders Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 07:55:40 -0400 I really don't understand what's being proposed that's not already in place. Have you looked at a PBS membership directory?? Sounds like you just want to have a "formal" informal network.... On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 2:20 AM, Michael Mace wrote: > Tom wrote: > >>> Why not establish an informal network of US-based 'International > Collections'? > > --A collection holder would be recognized by us (the PBS) as someone with > expertise and enthusiasm about a particular genus, plus a good collection of From robertpries@embarqmail.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: <1760732341.1051207.1315917508578.JavaMail.root@md08.embarq.synacor.com> From: Robert Pries Subject: Collection holders Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:38:28 -0400 (EDT) As Tomy has already pointed out there is a system of National Collections that works very much as the first post proposesd. At present only institutions like botanical gardens are a part. The program is organised through the American Public Gardens Association (APGA). This has been a topic that has interested me for several decades, ever since the book The Vanishing Garden was published. Years back I corresponded with the Secretary of the National Council for Conservation of Plants and Gardens in England, Which runs the program in England. In England Individuals as well as institutions participate. A couple of years ago I approached the APGA once again to see if they would have any interest in includeding individuals and in particular Plant Societies in the program that was redeveloping. I found a receptive audience. Since My greatest involvement is with the Iris Society I took the idea to the Board of Directors of the American Iris Society (AIS). The board approved my propos al to work with the APGA in establishing a working relationship for the purpose of developing Iris Gardens. Tony is correct in saying that there are quite a number of rules and regulations to manage. I created and now chair the committee for AIS on National Collections, Display,& Test Gardens. I hope in the future to create a greater envolvement with the APGA to create collections both in private collections and public gardens for various specialized Iris collections. The working together of plant societies with the APGA is not unprecedented. I believe the Magnolia Society was the first society to have a national collection. I had hopes the Iris Society would be able to take a lead role in bringing individuals into the USA National collection system but sadly I have had so much on my plate I have not really carried out these efforts in a sustained way. But I have not given up. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Kramb" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:55:40 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Collection holders I really don't understand what's being proposed that's not already in place. Have you looked at a PBS membership directory?? Sounds like you just want to have a "formal" informal network.... On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 2:20 AM, Michael Mace wrote: > Tom wrote: > >>> Why not establish an informal network of US-based 'International > Collections'? > > --A collection holder would be recognized by us (the PBS) as someone with > expertise and enthusiasm about a particular genus, plus a good collection of From meneice@att.net Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: <16A34C063CA240CA90A047D02C481B6D@DF5XS5C1> From: Subject: FW: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 07:19:30 -0700 _____ From: Kathryn Kennedy [mailto:Kathryn.Kennedy@mobot.org] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 5:17 AM To: meneice@att.net; jocelyn616@earthlink.net; Emmy Seymour; Ann Coburn; ladeenm@gmail.com; Diana Neely; Patricia Schleuning Subject: RE: [pbs] Saving Endangered Plants I hate that this perception is out there when I think CPC has tried to navigate this delicate subject. It saddens me to think that our devoted conservation horticulturists who are so professional and work so hard to understand and recover these plants (so that we CAN make them more widely available someday) are so misunderstood. I hope we are and will be the bridge between horticultural research, popular horticulture, and conservation! You know we do encourage use of all nonessential core material to facilities for education, etc. AND we have supported and encouraged approval of some FWS applications for commercial development of some species where doing so is not a danger to the wild and the material is abundant enough to make it possible (including cacti, bromeliads, orchids, some salvias (which later became a cultivar problem in Texas) and others--and that " must benefit the recovery of the species" requirement of commercial FWS permits is pretty broad..it includes promoting appreciation of the species! One thing we WANT to do is get everyone to see and enjoy these materials and identify with them in a way that does not harm them and helps the commercial sector and enthusiasts understand how delicate and rigorous restoration work actually is. This education is so important before we could envision an army of effective amateur restorationists helping us in a widespread way. Commercialization does have real risks...including increasing the threat of irresponsible overcollection and damage in the wild of the few existing delicate sites remainng because of creating a wider market of interest in the plants, people deriving material in cultivation so that it no longer has the wild adapted traits desired and could present genetic risk to wild populations, etc., and compassionate enthusiasts with too low an understanding of the habitat specificity and considerations doing informal "jonny appleseed" reintroductions in areas where they can do harm to the target species or others in the area (and damage the reputation of horticulturists, gardeners, and serious botanical gardens everywhere with the state and federal resource agencies). The wariness of state and federal agencies of horticulturists getting involved in conservation has arisen directly from these experiences, not from elitism or over-control. I myself have seen these very harmful practices and effects...every one of them...in my work over the years. So part of that "uptightness" is justifiable. I have met and talked to Tony once or twice and very carefully attempted to bring some balance and understanding to the picture without success. I do not know who else in the network he may be interacting with of course..it sounds like he is very aware of state and federal agency concerns as well. He is particularly adept at managing perception to discount risk of damage in the wild from unscientifically planned outplantings, outbreeding depression and swamping, derived cultivars getting into the wild etc. and understanding the need to prioritize and not yet being able to release materials that are in such small quantities they must be prioritized for research and recovery. The concept that we could engage nurseries to get busy and grow lots of these things for repatriation is just not practical yet. I wish it WERE easy enough to give out kits and provide instruction to good horticulturalists and good gardeners and garden clubs everywhere so there was an army out there, but the fact is that it IS complicated, and we are still feeling our way. WE ARE engaging more clubs through partners for plants and volunteers working WITH our scientists in our work, for the help they give, and to help them understand what is involved in successful projects and see the care and concern. Given the careful research and planning we have to do for each site related to placing these plants in the right place in terms of the plant community and security of restoration sites, the correct source material genetically for the greatest chance of success, the numbers and type of nursery stock for best results (liners? 2 in? gallon?), timing of planting, great care to avoid introducing pathogens to a wild site, how we move around in the site to prevent damage,etc. For most of these species this pilot work is ongoing and we aren't ready yet for more widespread multiplication of reintroduction efforts. It's a delicate thing to engage the passionate who are convinced of their particular point of view.sadly I think that we won't be able to convince many of the necessity for proceeding as we do in the short term. Only longer term education and information and demonstration will get us there.I've been dreaming about a video online where some of these points are made in the narration along with our scientists working away. KK -----Original Message----- From: meneice@att.net [mailto:meneice@att.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:37 PM To: Kathryn Kennedy; jocelyn616@earthlink.net; 'Emmy Seymour'; Ann Coburn; ladeenm@gmail.com; 'Diana Neely'; 'Patricia Schleuning' Subject: FW: [pbs] Saving Endangered Plants -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Tony Avent Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 5:12 AM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Saving Endangered Plants Shirley: I'm glad you posted a note about the Center for Plant Conservation (CPC). Although their mission is good, I have found them to be one of the most elitist organizations that I've ever encountered. They seem more interested in patting each other on the back than actually accomplishing anything. In talking with them, they seem to have no interest in commercial nurseries or private collectors, since in their eyes, we are the great "unwashed". We don't understand the "problems" inherent with growing endangered plants...all rare plants must remain exactly where they are today, unless academic bureaucrats decide its okay to relocate them. They dismiss all nurseries and horticulture in general because we are evil commercial ventures only wanting to exploit plants. As I've tried to explain to several members, the nursery industry would be the perfect partner, not only in being able to actually grow the plants, but we could do wonders with ex-situ conservation by spreading the plants around widely to collectors in this changing climate. We would have many more Federally Endangered plants in our catalog if it were not for this bunch of bureaucrats...along with those from the US Fish and Wildlife. Do you know that to legally grow and sell Federal Endangered plants, you must prove that by doing so, you will help the wild populations. Common sense would say that as long as you aren't harming the wild population, this should be adequate. The CPC absolutely do not want endangered plants in private hands since the idea that they might wind up in a new location gives them fits...think Linda Blair from the Exorcist. Evidently, I missed the memo where someone put them in charge of keeping nature in exactly the same place as it is today....quite bizarre. In my logical world, a functional CPC would be passing out propagation material of endangered plants to nurseries and encouraging them to get it propagated and sold. Until we can get folks with more common sense, I don't hold much hope for the group actually accomplishing anything meaningful. How about it Shirley...are you up to the task? Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of meneice@att.net Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 11:59 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Saving Endangered Plants Are many of you in the U.S. aware of the Center for Plant Conservation, headquartered at the Missouri Botanic Garden in St. Louis? Their mission is to conserve and restore the imperiled native plants of our country. It is a consortium of Botanic Gardens and Arboreta across the country, including New York BG, Arnold Arboretum. Fairchild, Univ. of Washington, Desert Botanical Garden, Missouri Botanical Garden, Brooklyn Botanic Garden, Historic Bok Sanctuary, Flagstaff, AZ; Red Butte, Santa Barbara, Morton Arboretum, Arizona-Sonora Desert, Cinncinnati Zoo and BG, Chicago Bot. Garden, New England Wildflower, Denver Bot. Garden, North Carolina BG, Waimea Valley BG. New York BG, Rancho Santa Ana BG, State Botanical Garden of Georgia, Chicago BG, National Tropical BG, Holden Arboretum,, Minnesota, Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center, Cornell Plantation and Honolulu BG. For more information, please contact Kathryn Kennedy@mobot.org. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From btankers@gmail.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: Boyce Tankersley Subject: What's blooming week of September 12 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:56:21 -0500 After much delay, the Lycoris came into flower in the Chicago area. Lycoris squamigera and sanguinea bloomed at the same time - usually sanquinea is a bit earlier. L. chinensis put on a good show but the star of the season was L. longiflora - a single bulb planted about 5 years ago produced 6 flower spikes and is just now finishing up. Very excited to hear of Colchicum starting to come into flower in other areas. I divided up the Colchicum obtained from Janus Ruksans several years ago and replanted them in drifts across the rock garden in the front yard and as well as in the mixed border. Weather forecast calls for some significant cooling this week - fall is on the way! Boyce Tankersley Chicago - where what the meterologists are referring to as a 'flash drought' has settled in, negating all of the soil moisture received during a very wet summer. From robertpries@embarqmail.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: <1726034454.1058866.1315929394762.JavaMail.root@md08.embarq.synacor.com> From: Robert Pries Subject: FW: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 11:56:34 -0400 (EDT) I am glad to hear the Center for Plant Conservation is at least hearing some of the horticultural discontent. I believe there are tremendous opportunities if Botany and Horticulture can join forces. I have always been a gardener so when I studied to be a pure scientist (Taxonomy and Ecology) it always distressed me the attitude that other “pure” scientists had towards horticulture. I believe there is a deserved lack of respect on all sides. But both disciplines are greatly dependent on each other. Some years back my friends at Jerusalem Botanical garden were seeking support to save an area of habitat for the endemic Mount Gilboa Iris. They tried to rally the botanical and horticultural world, and I tried all I knew to help. I tried going to the Center for Plant Preservation. Despite a memo from then Director Peter Raven requesting their help, they had nothing to offer. But I do not want to single CPC out. I tried an array of contacts at an alphabetic soup of world agencies that are dedicated to preservation. Sadly I discovered that even scientists I knew had no time and nothing to offer to aid the cause. Sadly I discovered that much of the conservation community was a hollow shell when it came to those plants and animals that did not have the glamour of a giant panda or Snow leopard. All these agencies do some good work and I continue to support them. But most have little contact with specialized plant societies where there often lies a great deal of expertise. I have been trying for many years to bring horticulture and botany together but I sometimes think to little avail.--Bob Pries ----- Original Message ----- From: meneice@att.net To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 10:19:30 AM Subject: [pbs] FW: Saving Endangered Plants _____ From: Kathryn Kennedy [mailto:Kathryn.Kennedy@mobot.org] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 5:17 AM To: meneice@att.net; jocelyn616@earthlink.net; Emmy Seymour; Ann Coburn; ladeenm@gmail.com; Diana Neely; Patricia Schleuning Subject: RE: [pbs] Saving Endangered Plants I hate that this perception is out there when I think CPC has tried to navigate this delicate subject. It saddens me to think that our devoted conservation horticulturists who are so professional and work so hard to understand and recover these plants (so that we CAN make them more widely available someday) are so misunderstood. I hope we are and will be the bridge between horticultural research, popular horticulture, and conservation! You know we do encourage use of all nonessential core material to facilities for education, etc. AND we have supported and encouraged approval of some FWS applications for commercial development of some species where doing so is not a danger to the wild and the material is abundant enough to make it possible (including cacti, bromeliads, orchids, some salvias (which later became a cultivar problem in Texas) and others--and that " must benefit the recovery of the species" requirement of commercial FWS permits is pretty broad..it includes promoting appreciation of the species! One thing we WANT to do is get everyone to see and enjoy these materials and identify with them in a way that does not harm them and helps the commercial sector and enthusiasts understand how delicate and rigorous restoration work actually is. This education is so important before we could envision an army of effective amateur restorationists helping us in a widespread way. Commercialization does have real risks...including increasing the threat of irresponsible overcollection and damage in the wild of the few existing delicate sites remainng because of creating a wider market of interest in the plants, people deriving material in cultivation so that it no longer has the wild adapted traits desired and could present genetic risk to wild populations, etc., and compassionate enthusiasts with too low an understanding of the habitat specificity and considerations doing informal "jonny appleseed" reintroductions in areas where they can do harm to the target species or others in the area (and damage the reputation of horticulturists, gardeners, and serious botanical gardens everywhere with the state and federal resource agencies). The wariness of state and federal agencies of horticulturists getting involved in conservation has arisen directly from these experiences, not from elitism or over-control. I myself have seen these very harmful practices and effects...every one of them...in my work over the years. So part of that "uptightness" is justifiable. I have met and talked to Tony once or twice and very carefully attempted to bring some balance and understanding to the picture without success. I do not know who else in the network he may be interacting with of course..it sounds like he is very aware of state and federal agency concerns as well. He is particularly adept at managing perception to discount risk of damage in the wild from unscientifically planned outplantings, outbreeding depression and swamping, derived cultivars getting into the wild etc. and understanding the need to prioritize and not yet being able to release materials that are in such small quantities they must be prioritized for research and recovery. The concept that we could engage nurseries to get busy and grow lots of these things for repatriation is just not practical yet. I wish it WERE easy enough to give out kits and provide instruction to good horticulturalists and good gardeners and garden clubs everywhere so there was an army out there, but the fact is that it IS complicated, and we are still feeling our way. WE ARE engaging more clubs through partners for plants and volunteers working WITH our scientists in our work, for the help they give, and to help them understand what is involved in successful projects and see the care and concern. Given the careful research and planning we have to do for each site related to placing these plants in the right place in terms of the plant community and security of restoration sites, the correct source material genetically for the greatest chance of success, the numbers and type of nursery stock for best results (liners? 2 in? gallon?), timing of planting, great care to avoid introducing pathogens to a wild site, how we move around in the site to prevent damage,etc. For most of these species this pilot work is ongoing and we aren't ready yet for more widespread multiplication of reintroduction efforts. It's a delicate thing to engage the passionate who are convinced of their particular point of view.sadly I think that we won't be able to convince many of the necessity for proceeding as we do in the short term. Only longer term education and information and demonstration will get us there.I've been dreaming about a video online where some of these points are made in the narration along with our scientists working away. KK -----Original Message----- From: meneice@att.net [mailto:meneice@att.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:37 PM To: Kathryn Kennedy; jocelyn616@earthlink.net; 'Emmy Seymour'; Ann Coburn; ladeenm@gmail.com; 'Diana Neely'; 'Patricia Schleuning' Subject: FW: [pbs] Saving Endangered Plants -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Tony Avent Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 5:12 AM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Saving Endangered Plants Shirley: I'm glad you posted a note about the Center for Plant Conservation (CPC). Although their mission is good, I have found them to be one of the most elitist organizations that I've ever encountered. They seem more interested in patting each other on the back than actually accomplishing anything. In talking with them, they seem to have no interest in commercial nurseries or private collectors, since in their eyes, we are the great "unwashed". We don't understand the "problems" inherent with growing endangered plants...all rare plants must remain exactly where they are today, unless academic bureaucrats decide its okay to relocate them. They dismiss all nurseries and horticulture in general because we are evil commercial ventures only wanting to exploit plants. As I've tried to explain to several members, the nursery industry would be the perfect partner, not only in being able to actually grow the plants, but we could do wonders with ex-situ conservation by spreading the plants around widely to collectors in this changing climate. We would have many more Federally Endangered plants in our catalog if it were not for this bunch of bureaucrats...along with those from the US Fish and Wildlife. Do you know that to legally grow and sell Federal Endangered plants, you must prove that by doing so, you will help the wild populations. Common sense would say that as long as you aren't harming the wild population, this should be adequate. The CPC absolutely do not want endangered plants in private hands since the idea that they might wind up in a new location gives them fits...think Linda Blair from the Exorcist. Evidently, I missed the memo where someone put them in charge of keeping nature in exactly the same place as it is today....quite bizarre. In my logical world, a functional CPC would be passing out propagation material of endangered plants to nurseries and encouraging them to get it propagated and sold. Until we can get folks with more common sense, I don't hold much hope for the group actually accomplishing anything meaningful. How about it Shirley...are you up to the task? Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of meneice@att.net Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 11:59 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Saving Endangered Plants Are many of you in the U.S. aware of the Center for Plant Conservation, headquartered at the Missouri Botanic Garden in St. Louis? Their mission is to conserve and restore the imperiled native plants of our country. It is a consortium of Botanic Gardens and Arboreta across the country, including New York BG, Arnold Arboretum. Fairchild, Univ. of Washington, Desert Botanical Garden, Missouri Botanical Garden, Brooklyn Botanic Garden, Historic Bok Sanctuary, Flagstaff, AZ; Red Butte, Santa Barbara, Morton Arboretum, Arizona-Sonora Desert, Cinncinnati Zoo and BG, Chicago Bot. Garden, New England Wildflower, Denver Bot. Garden, North Carolina BG, Waimea Valley BG. New York BG, Rancho Santa Ana BG, State Botanical Garden of Georgia, Chicago BG, National Tropical BG, Holden Arboretum,, Minnesota, Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center, Cornell Plantation and Honolulu BG. For more information, please contact Kathryn Kennedy@mobot.org. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From btankers@gmail.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: Boyce Tankersley Subject: Collection holders Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 11:13:22 -0500 Yes, the American Public Gardens Association maintains the North American Plant Collections Collaborative (NAPCC). At this time it includes only public and botanic gardens in the program. I periodically bring up inclusion other groups and maybe the time is ripe to float that proposal again. Pam Allenstein is the coordinator. They produce a number of workshops that train volunteer reviewers on the procedures used to evaluate prospective additions to the NAPCC. Tony, have you been through one of those workshops? Has anyone else? Jim Waddick, do you think this is something that PBS would be interested in pursuing? If so, I recommend PBS develop an draft plan among the North American members with the time, interest and expertise to participate and then take it to APGA. Currently I don't believe they have a strong representation of geophytes. CBG is working on creating a national collection of Jonquil Narcissus but off hand I can't recall any other geophyte collections within NAPCC. Boyce Tankersley > > From xerantheum@gmail.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: FW: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 09:24:38 -0700 Hi, I have read these posts with interest, but have remained quiet for the most part, mainly observing, but I feel like I should respond to the email forwarded to us by Shirley. I understand and regard the work by conservationists of utmost importance in the preservation of biodiversity on earth. However, I can't help but take on a more negative side of things because of the reality of the matter. Species are being lost at an amazing rate and even with all the specialized conservation efforts out there, it's just not enough. These groups and agencies are bounded by budget, workers, and bureaucratic red tape that it is not possible for them to maximize their effort. There are a few points in which I question as the main concerns stated in the email. Probably because of my ignorance, but I don't know of any documented cases where people would go and collect rare wild plants of something already widespread in cultivation. Perhaps someone with more knowledge can educate me on this point and the ones below. One of the concerns is about selection and loss of genetic diversity in garden grown plants. But don't conservation agencies grow their plants in nurseries? Sure, they may have a lot more genetic material available, but don't all of them go through the same selection process when they are grown in the nursery? When they are re-introduced, don't the plants suffer from the same fate of death by natural selection as any regular garden plant? Let's say that a "Johnny Appleseed" garden grown plant makes it back out into the wild and starts to intermingle with the native population. The fact that a garden grown plant survives in the wild means that it has the genetics to withstand at least some of the selection pressure in the wild. In which case, is it so bad for the genes from this apparent successful plant be transferred to the native population? If the progeny of the garden x wild plant does not contain good genes, they will just be wiped out by the natural selection forces. This argument of course discounts the importance of pollen/seed competition between wild and garden plant and it ignores hybrids. What about diseases? Are there documented cases of diseases being spread by a "Johnny Appleseed" garden plant? If it's a fungal disease, there is a good chance that the spores are already spread from plants grown in gardens to the nearby wild populations. The fact that wild plants survive, means that they have some sort of resistance. With the impetus of biodiversity disappearing, there must be an effort made immediately to reach any help possible. It is no longer feasible for small conservation groups to work on conservation alone. I understand the concerns about reintroductions but these concerns are holding everyone back. So instead of wishing that more people could help, why not give the people who are interested a push in the right direction? Like someone mentioned earlier, the approaches may be different but the goals are the same. Nhu Berkeley, CA From: Kathryn Kennedy [mailto:Kathryn.Kennedy@mobot.org] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 5:17 AM > Subject: RE: [pbs] Saving Endangered Plants > > Commercialization does have real risks...including increasing the threat of > irresponsible overcollection and damage in the wild of the few existing > delicate sites remainng because of creating a wider market of interest in > the plants, people deriving material in cultivation so that it no longer > has > the wild adapted traits desired and could present genetic risk to wild > populations, etc., and compassionate enthusiasts with too low an > understanding of the habitat specificity and considerations doing informal > "jonny appleseed" reintroductions in areas where they can do harm to the > target species or others in the area (and damage the reputation of > horticulturists, gardeners, and serious botanical gardens everywhere with > the state and federal resource agencies). > From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: <976BDF0E-6E12-40AF-969D-6214BB2969D2@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Collection holders Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:28:06 -0700 I actually like all the suggestions that Mike made. I read all the other posts describing problems that have arisen with formal collection holder methods in other countries, but the kind of semi-informal method Mike suggests might be able to avoid a lot of these problems. In some ways, his suggestions resemble what at least a couple of organizations in the fruit tree arena have developed. California Rare Fruit Growers (CRFG) has a created a list of "Fruit Specialists" who know a lot about a particular species of fruit tree. They also usually grow many different cultivars of that particular species. CRFG used to publish the names of the specialists and their species along with an address or email address to which you could direct questions, in their bimonthly journal to members. These days, you just send an email to a central address and it gets re-directed to the appropriate specialist. These specialists don't sell trees or budwood, but I have noticed that several of them often bring budwood or small trees to some of the meetings of members of CRFG. Another organization, North American Fruit Explorers (NAFEX), has what they call "Interest Groups" for each species of fruit of interest to the members of that organization. Each group has a leader, usually an expert grower of that species, and his or her name and address or email address has been published in the quarterly journal of that organization. The original intent was that members of an interest group would keep in touch with each other about how their particular cultivars of that species were growing in their climate and location, trade information, as well as trade trees or budwood. It could be that unless some kind of gateway is put in place, these specialists would be harassed too often or get requests all the time to provide the asker with all kinds of rare bulbs or seeds. So maybe that is the reason both of the above organizations limit access to these specialist by way of membership in their organization. I read the very interesting email from Kathryn Kennedy, and working in a scientific arena, I appreciate all the technical and scientific worries of the professionals working in plant conservation. But as someone else mentioned, there are simply not enough of them. And their worries about the native areas might be fine in an ideal world. But two things: 1) I don't know of any bulb hobbyist who has plans of repopulating native areas themselves with material they are growing. And 2) even if they did, despite all the negatives Kathryn mentioned about what might happen if such activities were undertaken, if the species goes extinct, it's not going to make a bit of difference that home-grown genes tainted a native population that no longer exists. Knowledgeable growers, like many on this list, are not conservation biologists' enemies. And even though the experts have a PhD in this area, it doesn't mean they know how to grow the plant. One example I know about is Worsleya procera. Very few botanical gardens seem able to grow this at all. Of the very few that do, even fewer seem able to ever flower it. Yet on the Worsleya specialty email list, there are quite a number who not only can grow them amazingly well, they can flower them year after year, get them to produce seeds, and even produce enough grown-on plants to be able to sell/distribute them in quantity from time to time to other interested hobbyists around the world. They are quite expert on the care and culture of this plant. Almost none of them have ever been to its native location, nor do any of them have plans to repopulate it. Yet I am almost certain that due to their efforts, a tremendous amount of pressure on the dwindling native population has been removed. And a lot more people are growing Worsleya than ever before. Plus, they have a lot more information on how not to kill them, so therefore many more are becoming successful at growing them. This translates into a lot of Worsleya being successfully grown and propagated around the world, which I think overall is a good thing, not a bad thing. And in the future, someone new getting into Worsleya for the first time has a much better opportunity not only to obtain this rare plant, but to grow it successfully him- or herself than has ever been the case before. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a Latitude 34°N, Altitude 1150 ft/350 m On Sep 12, 2011, at 11:20 PM, Michael Mace wrote: > Tom wrote: > >>> Why not establish an informal network of US-based 'International > Collections'? > > I really, really, really like Tom's idea. > > To build on it a little bit, here's what I picture: > > --A collection holder would be recognized by us (the PBS) as someone with > expertise and enthusiasm about a particular genus, plus a good collection of > it. As Tom mentioned, we could have more than one collection holder for a > genus, and in fact that would be better because we'd be less at risk of > losing rare species to a single disaster. > > To give a couple of examples, I think Bob Werra would qualify for Moraea, > and Jane McG. for Calochortus (and for a lot of other things). > > --We would identify collection holders on the wiki. > > --Collection holders would be informal information sources on the genus. If > you have a question about how to grow it, they'd be a good resource to ask. > > --Collection holders would also attempt to spread the genus by sharing seeds > and excess corms. > > --Finally, collection holders would be expected to make plans to preserve > their collections after they're no longer around. This could be facilitated > through the PBS. For example, if I get hit by a bus, my wife has > instructions to call Mary Sue and invite the PBS over to take charge of my > bulbs. > > Most of those are things we'd all do anyway, so what's the incentive to be a > collection holder? Status, for one thing. But also, we all ought to also > make sure that a collection holder gets first crack at a rare species when > seed of it becomes available, on the assumption that they'll have the best > chance of propagating it successfully and sharing it with others. > From plantnutga@gmail.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: Erin Grace Subject: what's blooming Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 14:20:48 -0400 After months of intense heat and drought and a sparse blooming season for my Zephyranthes and Habranthus, we finally had a semi-decent rain last week. I got some sporadic blooms among the rain lilies (it wasn't much rain!) but a gratifying response (probably more from the weather cooling a bit) from pots of Rhodophiala bifida. These are some tough old bulbs I acquired years ago from an acquaintance in Texas and their resilience never fails to amaze me! Erin Grace Thomasville, Georgia, USA USDA Hardiness 8b, heat zone 9 and pushing higher this year! From xerantheum@gmail.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Collection holders Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 11:28:59 -0700 I have been thinking about this idea myself but I feel that we must work in a network model rather than having a single person dedicated to a single genus. Prestige is for people, not for plants. Also having an informal network means that you don't have to worry about rules and bureaucratic ideology, which once again benefits certain person but not the plants. Like Dennis pointed out, the system is practically in place. We already have a number of people already growing many species of a genus and they do it very well. And we have a network through the PBS list. Why not start by put together a consolidated listing of who grows what (which is reflected in the wiki and the PBS member directory) and have it published on the wiki. Give it an interesting name to the network, and then have people volunteer to add themselves and their contact information. Anyone who wants to be in the group should agree to certain simple criterion, which should all aim to preserve and distribute plants like making and sharing of seeds or vegetative material. Nhu From Tony@plantdelights.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tony Avent Subject: Collection holders Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 15:03:01 -0400 Boyce: We had a staff member take the training a few years ago, but they have since left. Unfortunately, we're all so stretched right now that we don't have spare staff time, but obviously we feel strongly that some type of program be put together. It seems that when bureaucratic institutions get involved, the process gets so bogged down with rules that it chokes off progress. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Boyce Tankersley Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 12:13 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Collection holders Yes, the American Public Gardens Association maintains the North American Plant Collections Collaborative (NAPCC). At this time it includes only public and botanic gardens in the program. I periodically bring up inclusion other groups and maybe the time is ripe to float that proposal again. Pam Allenstein is the coordinator. They produce a number of workshops that train volunteer reviewers on the procedures used to evaluate prospective additions to the NAPCC. Tony, have you been through one of those workshops? Has anyone else? Jim Waddick, do you think this is something that PBS would be interested in pursuing? If so, I recommend PBS develop an draft plan among the North American members with the time, interest and expertise to participate and then take it to APGA. Currently I don't believe they have a strong representation of geophytes. CBG is working on creating a national collection of Jonquil Narcissus but off hand I can't recall any other geophyte collections within NAPCC. Boyce Tankersley > > From joshuakyleyoung@gmail.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: Joshua Young Subject: What's blooming week of September 12 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 15:13:25 -0400 Michael, It's quite sad but I feel the same about Haemanthus, they just don't strike me quite like the others! Josh -- http://www.fortheloveofbulbs.blogspot.com/ From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Collection holders Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 14:34:19 -0500 >Yes, the American Public Gardens Association maintains the North American >Plant Collections Collaborative (NAPCC). > >Jim Waddick, do you think this is something that PBS would be interested in >pursuing? > Dear Boyce, As you know plant conservation - or precisely BULB conservation - is a topic very close to the core of PBS. We've had some very tempered, yet expansive discussions showing widely divergent understanding of the problems. I am sure this is a topic that will go under discussion of the PBS Board of Directors. I suspect we will form a committee and review exactly what we can or should do. I must say that PBS is physically a very small organization and this is a very large subject to pursue. Establishing a central clearing house for specialty/ conservation bulb collections will require quite a bit of work, always a difficult attribute among volunteers. I assure you the topic will come to the board and soon. Meanwhile, I'd like to get a call from members of both this elist and the paid PBS membership asking for volunteers who might have some special organizational skills, computer data management and related abilities. I'd appreciate any related suggestions, but will mostly keep these in a single 'electronic file' until we have some discussion among the board if this is project we should agree to use our limited energies on pursuing. Please drop me a SHORTnote at jwaddick@kc.rr.com indicating your specific interests, related abilities and willingness to assist. We may even call for some increased funding to support the establishment of a major effort. Personally I think it is great if we could all work together, meaning both among the PBS Family and with other agencies such as NAPCC or the CPC to actually conserve bulbs in cultivation. Encouragingly Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: What's blooming week of September 12 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 14:53:48 -0500 Dear Friends, The heat and drought continue here almost unabated. We've had a couple sprinkles - may 1/2 in all week or less. The only large bulb to come through our 'concreted' clay soils continues to be Lycoris, specifically L. caldwellii. We have dozens of blooming stems, some earlier blooms going down, and other stalks still just emerging from the ground. This is going on six weeks of Lycoris bloom from a range of species. The only other bulbous plants in bloom are clumps of wild and weedy Garlic Chive- Alium tuberosum and a few straggling Zephyranthes candida in pots. Hoping that a few more significant rains will bring more bloom and the start of fall blooming bulbs. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From robertpries@embarqmail.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: <1412455460.1067484.1315944116162.JavaMail.root@md08.embarq.synacor.com> From: Robert Pries Subject: Collection holders Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 16:01:56 -0400 (EDT) Tony; As you know I believe the system of National collections is very important and I wish we were as far along as in the United Kingdom. I apologize for not being able to follow through with the Rain Lilies. As you noted We are all stretched thin. I consider the Iris Encyclopedia a valuable precursor to National Collections And it was inspired by the PBS wiki. I have much of the bureaocracy in place now within the Iris Society to be able to see a cooperative venture on the National Collections with APGA. I think it is entirely feasible for PBS to do the same. In England the National collectons are not just held by institutions but by individual specialists also. I believe that one should not loose sight of the fact that National Collections have as a primary goal preservation. It may be an undue burdon on some to have to distribute plants also. The goal is to have the plants extant and be able to provide material when necessary to restart the plant in general cultivation. T he sticking point as I see it is for individuals to make the necessary legal documents to ensure that collections can be transferred if the owner dies. I think it would be great if PBS could start such a project. Although the paperwork is extensive, it is, simply put, a record of what is in a collection, data about those accessions, and locations in the garden of the specimens so they might be able to be found after the demise of the collection holder. All that can amount to lots of paperwork especially if the information is updated yearly but without that, the collection is only functional during the life of the holder. From jmsjon664@aol.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: <8CE406C66C2ECB4-18A4-44A11@Webmail-d103.sysops.aol.com> From: "James L. Jones" Subject: (no subject) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 16:39:43 -0400 (EDT) http://aaronbyard.com/whiskerino/archives/2011/01/arcces.htm From jmsjon664@aol.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: <8CE406C6C8890A4-2268-33B14@webmail-d091.sysops.aol.com> From: "James L. Jones" Subject: (no subject) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 16:39:52 -0400 (EDT) http://sonic.vividores.net/wp-content/uploads/mp3playlist/arcces.htm From bulborum@gmail.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: (no subject) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:59:56 +0200 Watch out for these two emails They are bad ones they bring you to an other site as mentioned Roland 2011/9/13 James L. Jones : > http://aaronbyard.com/whiskerino/archives/2011/01/arcces.htm > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From bulborum@gmail.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: (no subject) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 23:00:18 +0200 Watch out for these two emails They are bad ones they bring you to an other site as mentioned Roland 2011/9/13 James L. Jones : > http://sonic.vividores.net/wp-content/uploads/mp3playlist/arcces.htm > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From petersirises@gmail.com Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:07:51 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: FW: Saving Endangered Plants Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 23:44:55 +0100 A case in to demonstrate ammeter horticultural efforts with rare and difficult plants. Some years ago I bought two seedlings of a rare Iris, from Jim Almond who was one of the two national collection holders of Juno Iris in the UK. (Tony Hall/ Kew has the other collection). Iris hippolyti from the Kyzl Kum dessert may be in no danger in the wild due to its remote and inhospitable location,- I don't know. However I have distributed a couple of hundred seeds of this Iris over the last three years. I have also supplied material to two nurserymen capable of growing this type of Iris. This is a picture of the plant in flower. http://www.flickr.com/photos/66380714@N06/6145485210/in/photostream Janis Ruksan lost his plants a few years ago, in case any of you think these plants are easy. I have heard that someone in Holland was growing it. I understand that Kews plants were paler than mine and came from Janis before he lost his stock. I don't know whether mine are from Janises collection but I gave Kew one clone and will give them another. I think that they only had two clones. If they wish they can produce seeds of each form. In case they actually represent local wild forms, this would be worth while. These are difficult plants to keep going in my climate and I struggle sometimes, but should material this plant ever be needed for research or repatriation to the wild; I as a hobby gardener and collector of Juno iris, have done my best to make it widely available. Thanks to this "good horticulturalist" and not a botanic garden, Iris hippolytii may be in cultivation on three continents by now. Due to the nature of the plant I do not expect it will be a problem in the wild as an escape. perhaps I will be proved wrong. How silly Botanical Institutions are not to be actively seeking this kind of assistance. I hope that it is appropriate I sent this to Kathryn Kennedy too. Peter (UK) On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 3:19 PM, wrote: > > From: Kathryn Kennedy [mailto:Kathryn.Kennedy@mobot.org] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 5:17 AM > To: meneice@att.net; jocelyn616@earthlink.net; Emmy Seymour; Ann Coburn; > ladeenm@gmail.com; Diana Neely; Patricia Schleuning > Subject: RE: [pbs] Saving Endangered Plants > > It saddens me to think that our devoted conservation horticulturists who > are > so professional and work so hard to understand and recover these plants (so > that we CAN make them more widely available someday) are so misunderstood. > I hope we are and will be the bridge between horticultural research, > popular > horticulture, and conservation! > > The concept that we could engage nurseries to get busy and grow lots of > these things for repatriation is just not practical yet. I wish it WERE > easy enough to give out kits and provide instruction to good > horticulturalists and good gardeners and garden clubs everywhere so there > was an army out there, but the fact is that it IS complicated, and we are > still feeling our way. > From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:02:23 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Collection holders Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 19:07:43 -0700 If we could avoid the one-upsmanship and bureaucratic nonsense associated with the National Collections scheme in the UK, I think this is a good idea. Keep it simple, though. I probably don't have enough Calochortus species to quality as a collection holder; I'm short on the high-=altitude ones and don't have a single Mexican species (I would love to grow them but have never seen seed of anything except C. barbatus). I do probably have the most complete collection of Fritillaria species in North America, but again, I am missing the species of the Far East. My collection is also strong, though by no means complete, in the Hyacinthaceae. I have all the Sternbergia except S. colchiciflora, but John Lonsdale I believe has that one. I'd be glad to discuss this initiative more with enthusiasts. Jane McGary At 11:20 PM 9/12/2011, you wrote: >Tom wrote: > > >> Why not establish an informal network of US-based 'International >Collections'? > >I really, really, really like Tom's idea. > >To build on it a little bit, here's what I picture: > >--A collection holder would be recognized by us (the PBS) as someone with >expertise and enthusiasm about a particular genus, plus a good collection of >it. As Tom mentioned, we could have more than one collection holder for a >genus, and in fact that would be better because we'd be less at risk of >losing rare species to a single disaster. > >To give a couple of examples, I think Bob Werra would qualify for Moraea, >and Jane McG. for Calochortus (and for a lot of other things). > >--We would identify collection holders on the wiki. > >--Collection holders would be informal information sources on the genus. If >you have a question about how to grow it, they'd be a good resource to ask. > >--Collection holders would also attempt to spread the genus by sharing seeds >and excess corms. > >--Finally, collection holders would be expected to make plans to preserve >their collections after they're no longer around. This could be facilitated >through the PBS. For example, if I get hit by a bus, my wife has >instructions to call Mary Sue and invite the PBS over to take charge of my >bulbs. > >Most of those are things we'd all do anyway, so what's the incentive to be a >collection holder? Status, for one thing. But also, we all ought to also >make sure that a collection holder gets first crack at a rare species when >seed of it becomes available, on the assumption that they'll have the best >chance of propagating it successfully and sharing it with others. > >What do you think? > >Mike > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Text inserted by Panda GP 2011: > > This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited > mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: > http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_5828&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\NetworkService\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Global%20Protection%202011\AntiSpam >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pcamusa@hotmail.com Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:02:23 -0700 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: Collection holders Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:25:37 -0400 I get the concept of a collection holder but with an organization like PBS why not also define a distributed collection as one that is distributed across several holders? It could have the strengths of a natural transfer of material between distributed holders when disaster strikes and possibly reducing inadvertent hybridization. -Phil > Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 19:07:43 -0700 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > From: janemcgary@earthlink.net > Subject: Re: [pbs] Collection holders > > If we could avoid the one-upsmanship and bureaucratic nonsense > associated with the National Collections scheme in the UK, I think > this is a good idea. Keep it simple, though. > > I probably don't have enough Calochortus species to quality as a > collection holder; I'm short on the high-=altitude ones and don't > have a single Mexican species (I would love to grow them but have > never seen seed of anything except C. barbatus). > > I do probably have the most complete collection of Fritillaria > species in North America, but again, I am missing the species of the > Far East. My collection is also strong, though by no means complete, > in the Hyacinthaceae. I have all the Sternbergia except S. > colchiciflora, but John Lonsdale I believe has that one. > > I'd be glad to discuss this initiative more with enthusiasts. > > Jane McGary > > > At 11:20 PM 9/12/2011, you wrote: > >Tom wrote: > > > > >> Why not establish an informal network of US-based 'International > >Collections'? > > > >I really, really, really like Tom's idea. > > > >To build on it a little bit, here's what I picture: > > > >--A collection holder would be recognized by us (the PBS) as someone with > >expertise and enthusiasm about a particular genus, plus a good collection of > >it. As Tom mentioned, we could have more than one collection holder for a > >genus, and in fact that would be better because we'd be less at risk of > >losing rare species to a single disaster. > > > >To give a couple of examples, I think Bob Werra would qualify for Moraea, > >and Jane McG. for Calochortus (and for a lot of other things). > > > >--We would identify collection holders on the wiki. > > > >--Collection holders would be informal information sources on the genus. If > >you have a question about how to grow it, they'd be a good resource to ask. > > > >--Collection holders would also attempt to spread the genus by sharing seeds > >and excess corms. > > > >--Finally, collection holders would be expected to make plans to preserve > >their collections after they're no longer around. This could be facilitated > >through the PBS. For example, if I get hit by a bus, my wife has > >instructions to call Mary Sue and invite the PBS over to take charge of my > >bulbs. > > > >Most of those are things we'd all do anyway, so what's the incentive to be a > >collection holder? Status, for one thing. But also, we all ought to also > >make sure that a collection holder gets first crack at a rare species when > >seed of it becomes available, on the assumption that they'll have the best > >chance of propagating it successfully and sharing it with others. > > > >What do you think? > > > >Mike > > > >_______________________________________________ > >pbs mailing list > >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Text inserted by Panda GP 2011: > > > > This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited > > mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: > > http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_5828&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\NetworkService\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Global%20Protection%202011\AntiSpam > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From dkramb@badbear.com Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:02:23 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Iris hippolyti Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:53:09 -0400 OMG!!! It's absolutely charming!!! I love that photo, Peter, thanks for sharing! Dennis (self-confessed Iris obsessed freak!) On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 6:44 PM, Peter Taggart wrote: > Thanks to this "good horticulturalist" and not a botanic garden, Iris > hippolytii may be in cultivation on three continents by now. From joshuakyleyoung@gmail.com Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:02:23 -0700 Message-Id: From: Joshua Young Subject: Collection holders Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 23:18:43 -0400 Hi guys, I may not have all the knowledge or expertise as many that have been growing for twenty years but I would be more than happy to donate all extra material of Hippeastrum to the PBS BX for distribution or to others who grow large amounts such as myself. I grow 35-45 species and species variants, maybe more and I've got lots of clonal information on many of the plants which I find very important for succesful cultivation. I think this a great idea to relax the stress on wild plants and I know we can find a successful way to make this happen!! Josh From petersirises@gmail.com Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:02:23 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Collection holders Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 04:38:19 +0100 On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 3:07 AM, Jane McGary wrote: > I do probably have the most complete collection of Fritillaria > species in North America, but again, I am missing the species of the > Far East. > If you went with this Jane, you could hold a 'PBS initiative US collection' of Fritillaria from Central Asia, Africa,Europe and America. Let someone else take on Far Eastern Frits.... Many groups of plants naturally split according to the distribution of the Genera. Peter(UK) From bulborum@gmail.com Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:02:23 -0700 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Iris hippolyti Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 07:49:48 +0200 I agree with Dennis really stunning I thought Tony Hall was retired ?? A little complain, use a better camera next time Very sad but half of your nice juno pictures aren't sharp Roland , Iris >> hippolytii may be in cultivation on three continents by now. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:02:23 -0700 Message-Id: <966109781.78836.1315981794552.JavaMail.www@wwinf1m34> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Allium tuberosum and bees Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 08:29:54 +0200 (CEST) Hello James and all, I am collating, for local bee-keepers, data on garden plants that are of interest for bees. Late blooming ones like this of are of special interest as after the 15th of july honey nectar becomes harder to find I am told. And very early ones too such as Galanthus and Eranthis. I am glad to know that this super plant is a bee plant. You might find regretting having a bumper crop of seeds as in one garden in the south here where I planted it, it has become a weed through seeding! Bulbs and geophytes generally are not thought of as bee plants.A pity as they are great plants for all seasons and easy in small gardens as we all know. Can any one provide any more ideas? This is a great topic. Many thanks, Mark "> Message du 13/09/11 02:03 > De : "James L. Jones" > A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] Allium tuberosum > > The mention of Allium tuberosum earlier has prodded me to pass on an observation I've been making regarding pollinators.  The plight of the honeybee (Apis mellifera) is well known and has been evident here, with numbers way below those of the past.  However, suddenly, over the last few days I've been seeing them in some abundance, but only on A. tuberosum.  That onion grows mixed with A. 'Constellation" (nice effect) but the honeybees stick to the white one, though 'Constellation' is swarming with bumblebees (Bombus sp), which have been in abundance all season. Does this mean I'll get a bumper crop of seeds on tuberosum?  Oh joy." _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:02:23 -0700 Message-Id: <30797276.34654.1315983213646.JavaMail.www@wwinf1k28> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Collection holders CCVS Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 08:53:33 +0200 (CEST) Dear Roland and all, I can only echo these feelings as an ex national collection holder here... Absolutely no help or usefullness of any kind being a member of that scheme. I prefer to use my time and money visting fellow enthusiasts and exchanging and collecting. At least the NCCPG, or plant heritage as it now is I believe, gives tangible help to it's collectors. Mark > Message du 13/09/11 10:08 > De : "bulborum botanicum" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [pbs] Collection holders > > David The ccvs lives in an Ivory tower I was member and applied for a collection You don't want to hear the rest of the story Roland > Roland, > There's already a well established National Collections Scheme in France > called the CCVS, they have been going quite some time. > http://www.ccvs-france.org/ . -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From bulborum@gmail.com Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:02:23 -0700 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Allium tuberosum and bees Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 09:01:59 +0200 Hello Mark All Scilla's , Hyacinthoides non-scripta Almost all Allium's Not the nectaroscordum (for me not an Allium) I have never seen a bee on it same for daffodils and tulips most Amaryllidaceae are not interesting maybe because the sugar level is to low to attract bees almost all Liliaceae and nothing to do with bulbs all Salix are important for bees for there pollen but there are fantastic books to find plants for bees and probably if you google pollen-plants or nectar-plants you get loads of info Roland 2011/9/14 Mark BROWN : > Hello James and all, > I am collating, for local bee-keepers, data on garden plants that are of interest for bees. -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From davidfenwicksnr@googlemail.com Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:02:23 -0700 Message-Id: From: "David Fenwick" Subject: Collection holders Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 08:56:09 +0100 >>>> If you went with this Jane, you could hold a 'PBS initiative US >>>> collection' of Fritillaria from Central Asia, Africa,Europe and America. Hi Peter, There needs to be some care in what can be called a national collection. NCCPG spent a lot of money trademarking the name ''National Collection" in the UK and I expect this has been done elsewhere. Not something I agree with as it creates a monopoly; and there's obviously quite a bit of scope for other more specific garden organisations to setup their own ''national'' schemes, especially where people may not like or want to be members of the national body. Best Wishes, Dave From michaelcmace@gmail.com Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:02:23 -0700 Message-Id: <004401cc72b3$fee9a820$fcbcf860$@com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Collection holders Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 00:57:47 -0700 Lee wrote: >> California Rare Fruit Growers (CRFG) has a created a list of "Fruit Specialists" who know a lot about a particular species of fruit tree. They also usually grow many different cultivars of that particular species. Nice. Very nice. I was a member of CRFG for years, and I think that approach has worked very well for them. The Specialists are associated with particular fruit that they know best, but because the focus is on the people and their skills rather than just the things they grow, their system is more flexible. CRFG chooses only one expert for each type of fruit, but there's no reason we couldn't have multiple experts. Jane, please forgive me for using you as an example, but this way we could list you as a Calochortus specialist (or "expert" or "champion" or "guru" or some other term we like) without you being obligated to grow all of the Mexican species. If you think it's hard to preserve endangered species, imagine what it's like for the fruit growers to preserve rare cultivars which have no wild populations at all. They do it through very active exchanges of breeding material every year, plus the advocacy of those specialists and people like them, plus cooperation between growers and public institutions that grow fruit trees. You don't see a lot of us vs. them in the fruit world -- everyone is pretty much dedicated to doing whatever it takes to preserve the fruit varieties. Some varieties get lost, of course, but you might be surprised by how much survives. Great example, Lee. Mike San Jose, CA From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:02:23 -0700 Message-Id: <16075490.36713.1315987237597.JavaMail.www@wwinf1k28> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Narcissus and bees Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 10:00:37 +0200 (CEST) Dear All, I have noticed how in the woods and fields here just how important the wild populations of Narcissus pseudonarcissus are for early bumblebees. Other narcissus do not seem to interest bees of any kind. Bees love Nectaroscordums here! Mark "Not the nectaroscordum (for me not an Allium) I have never seen a bee on it same for daffodils and tulips most Amaryllidaceae are not interesting maybe because the sugar level is to low to attract bees Roland " From bulborum@gmail.com Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:02:23 -0700 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Narcissus and bees Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 10:37:27 +0200 Are you sure they are bees an not bumble-bees here I just see loads of bumble-bees on them Roland 2011/9/14 Mark BROWN : Bees love Nectaroscordums here! Mark -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:02:23 -0700 Message-Id: <10250225.31641.1315989766106.JavaMail.www@wwinf1g02> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Narcissus and bees Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 10:42:46 +0200 (CEST) They are bumblebees as I said but some honey bees do visit them and certainly are on Galanthus. Mark > Message du 14/09/11 10:37 > De : "bulborum botanicum" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [pbs] Narcissus and bees > > Are you sure they are bees an not bumble-bees here I just see loads of bumble-bees on them Roland 2011/9/14 Mark BROWN : Bees love Nectaroscordums here! Mark -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From bulborum@gmail.com Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:02:23 -0700 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Narcissus and bees Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 11:34:10 +0200 Yes on Galanthus here too when they where called Allium siculum I told people already they where wrong there are just bumblebees on Nectaroscordum all other Alliums are visited by bees and bumblebees I just heard they want to bring it back in Allium I think bees are more clever as some taxonomist Roland >certainly are on Galanthus. >Mark -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From btankers@gmail.com Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:02:23 -0700 Message-Id: From: Boyce Tankersley Subject: Allium tuberosum and bees Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 08:56:00 -0500 Hi Mark: Any of the fall flowering Alliums will be suitable nectar sources for honeybees (thunbergii, etc.). Commercial onion breeders use bee cages to pollinate their seed crops. Boyce Tankersley From michaelcmace@gmail.com Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:02:23 -0700 Message-Id: <002101cc7305$170cfe60$4526fb20$@com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Narcissus and bees Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 10:38:10 -0700 I see a fair number of honeybees visiting the Amaryllis belladonna hybrids here. I presume there must be some nectar they can reach at the base of the flowers. I doubt this does much for the Amaryllis because the anthers are so far out from the base. Surprisingly (to me), I don't see bumblebees on them, even though we have a large population of bumblebees here. Honeybees also make a fair number of visits to Moraea flowers. Those flowers are pretty well shaped for bee pollination. Mike San Jose, CA From idavide@sbcglobal.net Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:02:23 -0700 Message-Id: <1316028833.25136.YahooMailRC@web81001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Late blooms Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 12:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Michael Mace wrote -- The Les Hannibal Amaryllis hybrids here are at about the mid-point in their blooming process now.  Amaryllis seem to start a bit later for me than they do in most of the Bay Area.  I'm not sure why; my neighborhood is a bit warmer and dryer than the rest of the area, and you'd think that would lead to earlier blooms not later ones. My Tigridia pavonia were left in a shady place because I was too lazy to move their large pot.  They finished blooming well over a month ago.  However, I moved a small pot to a full sun position in spring, and kept it well watered all summer.  That pot is just blooming now. In my neighborhood (mid-peninsula, in the hills), A. belladonna is just finishing bloom. David E. From xerantheum@gmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:57:58 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Fritillaria Sources?? Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 14:37:08 -0700 Harold, Diana Chapman has a good collection. Nhu On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 4:32 AM, Harold Koopowitz wrote: > Dear all: > Does any one know of sources of North American fritillarias > especially the Californian species? > From petersirises@gmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:57:58 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Fritillaria Sources?? Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 22:49:43 +0100 You could try Norman Stevens or The Wallaces in the UK, they dont have web sites though, also the Fritillaria Group in the UK. http://www.fritillaria.org.uk/suppliers.htm Peter (UK) On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Harold Koopowitz wrote: > Dear all: > Does any one know of sources of North American fritillarias > especially the Californian species? > From petersirises@gmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:57:58 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Paeonia mascula Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 22:52:21 +0100 It usually flowers in May here On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: > Paeonia mascula is about to bloom here in zone 7 Maryland. > > Jim McKenney > > From petersirises@gmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:57:58 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Collection holders Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 23:14:01 +0100 Hi David, The phrase I used was spurious not definative, and I doubt that anyone has patented "PBS initiative US collection" anyway. I did not use the term "national collection" in any case. Peter On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 8:56 AM, David Fenwick < davidfenwicksnr@googlemail.com> wrote: > >>>> If you went with this Jane, you could hold a 'PBS initiative US > >>>> collection' > of Fritillaria from Central Asia, Africa,Europe and America. > > Hi Peter, > There needs to be some care in what can be called a national collection. > From jshields@indy.net Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:57:58 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20110914181823.056c0ca8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Use of the word "Seedling" Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:27:12 -0400 This particular use of the term "seedling" is common practice among those of us who have worked with vegetatively propagated named cultivars, precisely as Dave and Dennis say. We hybridized daylilies here for about 30 years, and every plant grown from a seed was a "seedling" until someone registered a cultivar name for it. We grew thousands of seedlings over the years, and registered names for only about 40 of them. We discarded or sold off all the rest as blooming "seedlings" in the process. Jim Shields in Westfield, Indiana At 03:04 PM 4/14/2011 -0400, you wrote: >So we all look at it differently? :D To me, it denotes that it's not a >clone of another plant. > >-Dave > >On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 2:53 PM, Dennis Kramb wrote: > > > For me, my experience with "seedlings" comes from hybridizing irises. > > Anything I've grown from seed, is a seedling... even if it is 15 years old > > now and a massive clump of rhizomes in my garden. To other hybridizers (& > > iris enthusiasts in general) the name "seedling" implies that I haven't > > named, registered, or introduced this iris yet. > > > > Dennis in Cincinnati ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From petersirises@gmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:57:58 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Iris hippolyti Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 23:31:18 +0100 Thanks Denis, Roland. I agree Roland, I just havn't found time to sort out digital photography yet. I think Tony is retired (officially), Kit Strange is looking after the collection now. Peter On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 6:49 AM, bulborum botanicum wrote: > I agree with Dennis > really stunning > I thought Tony Hall was retired ?? > > Very sad but half of your nice juno pictures aren't sharp > > > Roland > From petersirises@gmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:57:58 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Scilla paucei pics ? = L. socialis Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 00:02:13 +0100 How does L ovalifolia and L luteola tie in with this L pauciflora and with L socialis? Peter (UK) http://www.aridlands.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=434&osCsid=1k14lc6go02jjc43o56bvfdrm5 > There is certainly much confusion with this plant. I just made a quick > > Google search and found a plant that has beautiful leaves and flowers > that > > look exactly like what we have come to know as L. socialis *except* that > it > > lacks any purple coloring. Take a look at the link below and you can > > perhaps see into the past where Baker studied a plant similar to this > one. So with > > that, I think the synonomy of this particular plant and L. socialis is > > pretty certain. > > > > > > > http://www.cactus-art.biz/schede/LEDEBOURIA/Ledebouria_pauciflora/Ledebouria_pauciflora/Ledobouria_pauciflora.htm > > > > However, most of the plants out there, including Jude's plant do not have > > leaves that look like this at all. They are ovate and have faint minute > > markings. However, all of this does not mean that > > it can't just be another form of L. socialis. > > From msittner@mcn.org Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:57:58 -0700 Message-Id: <20110915003120.0BDF5E9A73@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: List messages from April Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 17:31:18 -0700 Hi, We are puzzled about why all these messages from April are suddenly appearing. We'll be opening a help ticket with ibiblio. Just to let you know we have noticed and will moderate messages until we get it straightened out. Mary Sue for the list Administrators From jmsjon664@aol.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:57:58 -0700 Message-Id: <8CE4157F4635481-A28-42EE3@Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com> From: "James L. Jones" Subject: Allium tuberosum and bees Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 20:45:52 -0400 (EDT) Among non-tuberous species, the most wildly avidly frequented plant I know is Pycnanthemum verticillatum. It is easy to grow, well-behaved, and quietly a attractive. Jim -----Original Message----- From: Mark BROWN To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:30 pm Subject: Re: [pbs] Allium tuberosum and bees Hello James and all, I am collating, for local bee-keepers, data on garden plants that are of interest for bees. Late blooming ones like this of are of special interest as after the 15th of july honey nectar becomes harder to find I am told. And very early ones too such as Galanthus and Eranthis. I am glad to know that this super plant is a bee plant. You might find regretting having a bumper crop of seeds as in one garden in the south here where I planted it, it has become a weed through seeding! Bulbs and geophytes generally are not thought of as bee plants.A pity as they are great plants for all seasons and easy in small gardens as we all know. Can any one provide any more ideas? This is a great topic. Many thanks, Mark "> Message du 13/09/11 02:03 > De : "James L. Jones" > A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] Allium tuberosum > > The mention of Allium tuberosum earlier has prodded me to pass on an observation I've been making regarding pollinators. The plight of the honeybee (Apis mellifera) is well known and has been evident here, with numbers way below those of the past. However, suddenly, over the last few days I've been seeing them in some abundance, but only on A. tuberosum. That onion grows mixed with A. 'Constellation" (nice effect) but the honeybees stick to the white one, though 'Constellation' is swarming with bumblebees (Bombus sp), which have been in abundance all season. Does this mean I'll get a bumper crop of seeds on tuberosum? Oh joy." _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:57:58 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Narcissus and bees Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 17:56:16 -0700 I have often thought the most important bulbs for bees are Crocus, because many of the species flower so early in the year when few or no other nectar-bearing flowers are available for honeybees. I was always amazed, when living out in the Cascade foothills, to see my crocuses humming with honeybees at a time when there were probably no other flowers in bloom for miles. As far as I know, the nearest beekeeper was about a mile away, but there may have been wild hives in the forest. Sometimes almost every crocus blossom would have a bee in it. Crocuses are mostly honey-scented, which must attract bees strongly. This would also apply to Galanthus. I don't recall seeing bees at the Narcissus, but they must have been, because even the earliest ones set seed, and there were some apparent hybrids that popped up between the pots. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From voltaire@islandnet.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:57:58 -0700 Message-Id: <83FD52E4-3402-4A9D-8461-10E6AAB0E211@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Albuca shawii Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:12:08 -0700 Albuca shawii, a graceful plant with bright yellow flowers, began flowering about mid-July in my garden and has just opened its final few flowers, two months later. I've collected a lot of seed from it, and imagine it would naturalize in a suitable place. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada cool mediterranean climate moderate dry summers, moderate rainy winters 68 cm rain (27 in) From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:57:58 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Fritillaria Sources?? Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:22:54 -0700 Harold Koopowitz asked >Does any one know of sources of North American fritillarias >especially the Californian species? I believe Telos Rare Bulbs (Diana Chapman) offers some bulbs. With the cessation of Ron Ratko's Northwest Native Seeds, the best source for seeds has vanished. However, the Alpine Garden Society (UK) has a Fritillaria Group that offers a large seed list each summer (unfortunately, their deadline for donations occurs before my seeds are ripe, most years, so I've been sending them all to the NARGS seed exchange -- with apologies to Dell!). I recently mentioned Mark Akimoff's Illahe Nursery, which is now offering bulbs grown from the stock from which I used to sell surplus bulbs. Both Telos and Illahe have websites, as does the AGS Fritillaria Group: http://www.fritillaria.org.uk Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From contact@bulbargence.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:57:58 -0700 Message-Id: From: "contact" Subject: Collection holders CCVS Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 08:12:28 +0200 Hello, Same experience for us: national collection holder for Moraea 1995-2006 Greetings Lauw de Jager http://wwwbulbargence.com South of France -----Original Message----- I can only echo these feelings as an ex national collection holder here... Absolutely no help or usefullness of any kind being a member of that scheme. I prefer to use my time and money visting fellow enthusiasts and exchanging and collecting. From d.avensis@virgin.net Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:57:58 -0700 Message-Id: <9122A8586CC541048F14D26A97F40C0B@Auricula> From: "David Nicholson" Subject: Albuca shawii Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 15:27:26 +0100 Diane Whitehead wrote >SNIP> Albuca shawii, a graceful plant with bright yellow flowers, began >flowering about mid-July in my garden.......... I grow it in the greenhouse but haven't tried it outside. For the last two years (our worst two winters in years) it has spent it's winter dormancy under the staging protected only by a couple of sheets of fleece. David Nicholson in Devon, UK Zone 9b allegedly! From wusong@evilemail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:57:58 -0700 Message-Id: From: dave s Subject: Scilla paucei pics ? = L. socialis Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 10:30:58 -0400 Just an opinion...but having grown many of the "forms" of *L. socialis*, and adding a few more this summer....I think many of them are hybrids. With all due respect to Arid Lands, their knowledge of *Ledebouria* taxonomy is terrible. Making the argument that *Ledebouria socialis* and *Scilla violacea* are OBVIOUSLY two distinct species....ugh. It only takes a few minutes of research to see that regardless of the identities of the two plants mentioned in the catalogue, *Scilla violacea* is an invalid name. I love their plants, have been a customer for years, but they are WAY off base there. - Dave On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 7:02 PM, Peter Taggart wrote: > How does L ovalifolia and L luteola tie in with this L pauciflora and with > L socialis? > Peter (UK) > > > http://www.aridlands.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=434&osCsid=1k14lc6go02jjc43o56bvfdrm5 > > > There is certainly much confusion with this plant. I just made a quick > > > Google search and found a plant that has beautiful leaves and flowers > > that > > > look exactly like what we have come to know as L. socialis *except* > that > > it > > > lacks any purple coloring. Take a look at the link below and you can > > > perhaps see into the past where Baker studied a plant similar to this > > one. So with > > > that, I think the synonomy of this particular plant and L. socialis is > > > pretty certain. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.cactus-art.biz/schede/LEDEBOURIA/Ledebouria_pauciflora/Ledebouria_pauciflora/Ledobouria_pauciflora.htm > > > > > > However, most of the plants out there, including Jude's plant do not > have > > > leaves that look like this at all. They are ovate and have faint minute > > > markings. However, all of this does not mean that > > > it can't just be another form of L. socialis. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From msittner@mcn.org Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:57:58 -0700 Message-Id: <20110915144342.DAAB6EADCF@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Moderation hold removed Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 07:43:33 -0700 Hi, I have approved the messages that came in yesterday after all the old ones finally went through. A few I deleted (like a notice of the problem) or redirected to the correct source when they came to the list and should have been sent privately. It appears that ibiblio released messages that had been delayed (and some from quite some time) all at once. Other lists experienced the same thing, but not in such volume as our list. Some of you responded to the old messages like the Fritillaria message from April so I approved those messages too. Since I tried to contact you all individually, I've uncovered a lot of other problems to deal with now. So if you have written me privately and asked me to unsubscribe you, I will get to it. The message I sent out last night did not have a virus so please do not worry. We are now left with 18 old messages from 6 people. As I have time I'll contact those six and see if they would like me to approve their messages now or just add them to the archives for the correct month since David Pilling is working on a new location for the archives and can do this. The other choice is to delete them as they are now old news. If more messages come in from the past it is because people chose to have them delivered now. Mary Sue From totototo@telus.net Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:57:58 -0700 Message-Id: <4E71B309.4678.F1F14E4@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Use of the word "Seedling" Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 08:10:49 -0700 On 14 Apr 2011, at 13:40, dave s wrote: > A plant from seed will have a unique individual genotype... Not in all cases. Plants that practice apomixy have seedlings identical to the (single) parent. Most common example: dandelions. Many Rubus species are also apomictic I have no idea if any of the geophytes this mailing list focuses on are apomictic, however. Perhaps the more botanically minded subscribers can enlighten us? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada From joshuakyleyoung@gmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:57:58 -0700 Message-Id: From: Joshua Young Subject: Use of the word "Seedling" Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 11:17:42 -0400 Rodger, Some Amaryllids are apomictic such as Amaryllis belladonna. From wusong@evilemail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:00 -0700 Message-Id: From: dave s Subject: New Drimiopsis Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 11:50:57 -0400 Ok, finally managed to get my hands on a *Drimiopsis* cf. *burkei*, aka *D. purpurea*. Gorgeous plant, but there's very little info out there, at least that I can find online. One surprise was the bulb - I was expecting something like* D. maculata*, but it's shaped like an inverted carrot (planted too deep, or...?). Does anybody have info on this species? Thanks and best regards, Dave From zigur@hotmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:00 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: New Drimiopsis Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 09:53:40 -0700 Do you mean the plant currently offered by ISI?? http://www.huntington.org/BotanicalDiv/ISI2011/isi/2011-25.html It is not 'aka' D. purpurea, which is a different plant. T From robin@no1bird.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:00 -0700 Message-Id: <3F05A63A68164AF4AD7E10E51DBB932A@RobinPC> From: "Robin Carrier" Subject: Albuca shawii Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:05:20 -0400 I think it would be really helpful if we knew the zone of the bulbs referred to. thanks robin carrier -------------------------------------------------- From: "Diane Whitehead" Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 9:12 PM To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Subject: [pbs] Albuca shawii > Albuca shawii, a graceful plant with bright yellow flowers, began > flowering about mid-July in my garden and has just opened its final > few flowers, two months later. I've collected a lot of seed from it, > and imagine it would naturalize in a suitable place. > > > Diane Whitehead > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > cool mediterranean climate > moderate dry summers, moderate rainy winters > 68 cm rain (27 in) > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jshields@indy.net Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:00 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20110915131550.03783998@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Use of the word "Seedling" Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:18:43 -0400 Some rain lilies are also supposed to be apomictic. I think the Grants did a study on parthenogenic "species" in the rain lilies about 20 or 30 years ago. They wrote a book on plant speciation that mentioned it, as far as I can recall.... Jim Shields At 08:10 AM 9/15/2011 -0700, you wrote: >......... >I have no idea if any of the geophytes this mailing list focuses on are >apomictic, however. Perhaps the more botanically minded subscribers can >enlighten us? > >Rodger Whitlock >Victoria, British Columbia, Canada ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From wusong@evilemail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:00 -0700 Message-Id: From: dave s Subject: New Drimiopsis Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:41:02 -0400 That's the one. I wasn't sure if *D. purpurea* was even a valid name. I've only seen it ("*D. purpurea*")on some Japanese plant blogs, and the ones I saw were definitely the same plant as the one I rec'd, and the locality given was the same. Thanks and best regards, Dave On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Tim Harvey wrote: > > Do you mean the plant currently offered by ISI?? > > http://www.huntington.org/BotanicalDiv/ISI2011/isi/2011-25.html > > It is not 'aka' D. purpurea, which is a different plant. > > T > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From voltaire@islandnet.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:00 -0700 Message-Id: <71C5D349-E429-4A76-9B32-AE30B8CB2040@islandnet.com> From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Albuca shawii Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 10:48:24 -0700 On 15-Sep-11 Robin Carrier wrote: > I think it would be really helpful if we knew the zone of the bulbs > referred to. > This is odd. I checked all my South African field guides, and the only one that mentions Albuca shawii is Vanderplank's Wildflowers of the Port Elizabeth Area, Gamtoos to Swartkops Rivers. It describes its flowers as being white and green with yellow tips, with the keels on the outer tepals turning reddish as the flowers age. When I google, all the pictures shown are yellow with green stripes, just like my plants. Annie's Annuals says it is from the Drakensberg Mountains and will grow in USDA zones 7 - 11. Their picture looks just like my clump. http://www.anniesannuals.com/plt_lst/lists/general/lst.gen.asp?prodid=2157 There is a picture of it growing in Scotland, but in a pot. It is treated there just like rhodohypoxis. I am in USDA zone 8, but on the Pacific coast. This is not at all like the zone 8 over in the SE of the U.S. I have well-drained soil, so both the albuca and rhodohypoxis grow well for me in the garden where they need to be watered in summer. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada cool mediterranean climate moderate dry summers, moderate rainy winters 68 cm rain (27 in) From zigur@hotmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:00 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: New Drimiopsis Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 10:48:57 -0700 Yes, D. purpurea is a valid name and a real plant. It is somewhat smaller than ISI 2011-25, and has more hair, particularly on the petioles. T > Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:41:02 -0400 > From: wusong@evilemail.com > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] New Drimiopsis > > That's the one. > > I wasn't sure if *D. purpurea* was even a valid name. I've only seen it ("*D. > purpurea*")on some Japanese plant blogs, and the ones I saw were definitely > the same plant as the one I rec'd, and the locality given was the same. > > Thanks and best regards, > > Dave > > On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Tim Harvey wrote: > > > > > Do you mean the plant currently offered by ISI?? > > > > http://www.huntington.org/BotanicalDiv/ISI2011/isi/2011-25.html > > > > It is not 'aka' D. purpurea, which is a different plant. > > > > T > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From d.avensis@virgin.net Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:00 -0700 Message-Id: <6776FD1F85F040309F4C1E958DF28B9A@Auricula> From: "David Nicholson" Subject: Albuca shawii Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 20:00:14 +0100 Yellow with green stripes for me too Diane David Nicholson in Devon, UK Zone 9b From klazina1@gmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:00 -0700 Message-Id: <4E725488.8090103@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: apomictic, was use of the word seedling Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 07:39:52 +1200 Most definitely some rain lilies are apomictic. As I have found since hybridising them. Do you know if that book mentioned which ones were apomictic, Jim? So far I have found no list of which are or aren't. I have a short list myself, from experience and bits read in different articles, but would love to know more about which are and which aren't. Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand On 16/09/2011 5:18 a.m., J.E. Shields wrote: > Some rain lilies are also supposed to be apomictic. I think the Grants did > a study on parthenogenic "species" in the rain lilies about 20 or 30 years > ago. They wrote a book on plant speciation that mentioned it, as far as I > can recall.... > > Jim Shields > > At 08:10 AM 9/15/2011 -0700, you wrote: >> ......... >> I have no idea if any of the geophytes this mailing list focuses on are >> apomictic, however. Perhaps the more botanically minded subscribers can >> enlighten us? >> >> Rodger Whitlock >> Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From pelarg@aol.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:00 -0700 Message-Id: <8CE4200920B9DFD-1864-85F3@webmail-m033.sysops.aol.com> From: pelarg@aol.com Subject: Albuca shawii Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 16:52:52 -0400 (EDT) My Albuca shawii looks like the one pictured at Annie's Annuals too, and I have had it for several years outside here just north of NYC. The bulbs are quite shallow, so they must freeze during winter. Ernie DeMarie Z6/7 Tuckahoe NY plantblog: http://geraniosgarden.blogspot.com From msittner@mcn.org Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:00 -0700 Message-Id: <20110915231703.799C0EA5FB@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Pacific BX 276 Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 16:16:57 -0700 Hi all, I'm still trying to sort through all the things needing attention after the mass of messages delivered from the past yesterday. A couple of the people I contacted said not to bother with their old messages. We heard from Roy Herold who is currently in South Africa and hopefully will have photos to add to the wiki on his return. It looks like some of his messages were resent and we have them in the archives already. He said we didn't need to send them on. But this one is a description of an item offered in the BX. Hopefully whoever ordered it will see this email. >15. Bulbs of Albuca sp. Plettenberg Bay ex BX 178 ex Roy Herold who >wrote the following: "from seed collected in November, 2006 from a >plant growing in pure sand at the edge of the beach, perhaps 50 >meters from the high waterline. This plant had gone dormant, and >only the scape and seed pods remained, approximately 20-30cm high. >Seedlings grew strongly through last summer and winter, and went >dormant in May, stretching to go deeply into the pot." Regarding #15, mine bloomed this year and corresponded to Albuca acuminata as shown on the wiki: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/AlbucaTwo#acuminata They look like the yellow flowered, white tipped form on the left. And the provenance of the beach at Plett certainly agrees with the description of growing in deep sands. Mary Sue From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Albuca shawii Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 23:35:54 +0000 Foliage is fine, erect and strongly smelling. From mmattus@charter.net Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Matt Mattus Subject: Narcissus and bees Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 20:07:49 -0400 We keep bees ( 3 hives) and I can't recall seeing any on any outdoor narcissus, however, on warm January days, they frequent the winter hoop varieties like N. romieuxii and N. cantabricus in the greenhouse. They enter through the vents in the roof, but then cannot escape once the vents close. We always lose a good number this way. Matt Mattus Worcester, MA USA Zone 5 On 9/14/11 8:56 PM, "Jane McGary" wrote: > > I don't recall seeing bees at the Narcissus, but they must have been, > because even the earliest ones set seed, and there were some apparent > hybrids that popped up between the pots. > From msittner@mcn.org Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:04 -0700 Message-Id: <20110916005314.B5A33EA1CA@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Albuca shawii Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:52:50 -0700 From Mountain Flowers by Elsa Pooley: Albuca shawii 150-400 mm. on cliffs, in rocky grassland, up to 2400 m. E Cape to Limpopo Prov. Leaves covered with **short sticky hairs**. Flowers few, more or less 15 mm, yellow, **nodding**, scented (Sep-Feb.) ** is used to indicate the important distinguishing features From klazina1@gmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:04 -0700 Message-Id: <4E72A47F.4050306@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: apomictic, was use of the word seedling Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 13:21:03 +1200 Most definitely some rain lilies are apomictic. As I have found since hybridising them. Do you know if that book mentioned which ones were apomictic, Jim? So far I have found no list of which are or aren't. I have a short list myself, from experience and bits read in different articles, but would love to know more about which are and which aren't. Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand > Some rain lilies are also supposed to be apomictic. I think the Grants did a study on parthenogenic "species" in the rain lilies about 20 or 30 years ago. They wrote a book on plant speciation that mentioned it, as far as I can recall.... > > Jim Shields From cchowar1027@yahoo.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Cody Howard Subject: New Drimiopsis Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 19:24:14 -0700 Dave, Could you post a picture of this somewhere? D. purpurea is pretty distinct with all of the hairs that cover the leaf. I have a few pictures I've been meaning to upload to the Wiki. Cody Coyotee Pasadena, CA From santoury@aol.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:04 -0700 Message-Id: <8CE422EDF8AE21D-1F90-98DF@Webmail-d124.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: apomictic, was use of the word seedling Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 22:24:19 -0400 (EDT) I am still getting spam messages through the PBS. "ERIC" Hopefully this can and will be remedied. From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1316140592.80309.YahooMailClassic@web160305.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: New Drimiopsis Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 19:36:32 -0700 (PDT)  I would have to see flowers. The only image I find is of a plant grown in Japan with crenulate margins and relatively round leaves. I have two other aff. burkei but neither look quite like the pictured plant. All mine have the usually Drimiopsis/Ledebouria like bulb. Some have tuberescent fundus, but it is not too pronounced on most.  Lebatha's thesis, with pictures, is available online if you look; all 86 MB of it. The connection usually gets lost about halfway through on their end.  Aaron --- On Thu, 9/15/11, dave s wrote: Does anybody have info on this species? Thanks and best regards, Dave From zigur@hotmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: New Drimiopsis Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 19:40:46 -0700 Juvenile plants have almost circular leaves, held horizontally, very close to the soil surface. Only as they mature do they look like the plant pictured. Quite a few Drimiopsis have elongated, tunic-less bulbs. T > The only image I find is of a plant grown in Japan with crenulate margins and relatively round leaves. From voltaire@islandnet.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Albuca shawii Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 22:10:18 -0700 On 15-Sep-11, at 5:52 PM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > From Mountain Flowers by Elsa Pooley: > Albuca shawii > 150-400 mm. on cliffs, in rocky grassland, up to 2400 m. E Cape to > Limpopo Prov. Leaves covered with **short sticky hairs**. Flowers > few, more or less 15 mm, yellow, **nodding**, scented (Sep-Feb.) > > ** is used to indicate the important distinguishing features > It looks as though we have a good selection in cultivation, then, as it does not have "few" flowers, but about a dozen, each on a long pedicel so that the flowers are held gracefully out from the stem. Yes, the short sticky hairs are distinctive, and the leaves smell good. I have seen different descriptions of the scent, some saying like anise. I think it smells more like a conifer, so I went around the yard, pinching the needles on all my conifers, and decided it was most like Alberta spruce - Picea glauca. (I've just looked this up, and back east they consider this spruce smells like a skunk. I can assure you neither my Alberta spruce nor my Albuca smell bad.) Mine flowered in three years from seed. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada cool mediterranean climate moderate dry summers, moderate rainy winters 68 cm rain (27 in) From msittner@mcn.org Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:04 -0700 Message-Id: <20110916051325.0EC93EAD3E@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Blooming this week Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 22:13:02 -0700 Hi, I didn't get a chance to report what is blooming this week. More Cyclamen are in bloom (now C. africanum as well as C. coum, C. hederifolium, C. cilicum.) There are more Cyrtanthus mackenii in bloom and C. loddigisanus. The latter was a first bloom from seed a couple of weeks ago, but the flowers only lasted a few days. This flower looked like it came from a different bulb in the same pot so I'll have to wait to see if there are any others. I have three Nerine sarniensis hybrids I grew from seed in bloom. The first one to bloom this year was from an early BX (2004) and Hamish Sloan. He could only report on the female parent. I requested it because of the name: Maria, described as "dark salmon stripe on salmon pink flower, a wide petalled flower, a reliable flowering bulb." I only ended up with one bulb from that lot of seed, but the flower is really beautiful so I don't mind. I've lots of Nerine buds on my other pots which is very promising. Others in bloom are Strumaria karooica and Romulea macowanni (with the yellow flowers just on the surface of the soil of the pot). Oxalis perdicaria (one of my favorites from South America with bright yellow flowers) is blooming. I also have the ones in bloom that Mike Mace reported in bloom for him and more and more pots with leaves coming up. For the second year I have Rhodophiala bifida blooming. I planted a bunch of these in the ground from a couple of sources, but they are history. No doubt it's just too dry in my garden in summer. But I planted two in a deep pot on my deck with a couple of other things that weren't blooming and have been rewarded with blooms the last two years. I'm not sure what name to use for the next one I'm reporting. I don't think it bloomed last year, but is blooming well this year. I see the Plant list is referring to it as Barnardia japonica, syn. Scilla japonica, Scilla scilloides. I'd love to know what name most people are using for this plant. It seems that some of the Scilla proposed changes have been accepted and some have not. Also blooming is Pelargonium sidoides. Today I saw my first Crocus too. I find fall just as exciting as spring in some ways as plants that were dormant start coming up (and you realize you haven't lost them.) And since it is so wet and so humid during my winters, the fall flowers (and leaves) often look better. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From jshields@indy.net Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:04 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20110916100824.03663c18@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: What's blooming week of September 12 Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 10:23:56 -0400 Hi all, We have more bloom. Colchicum byzantinum has joined Colchicum cilicicum in bloom in the garden and lawn. Cyclamen graecum has started blooming in the greenhouse. In the other greenhouse, Haemanthus dasyphyllus has joined Haemanthus pubescens pubescens and H. pubescens arenicolus in blooming. You can see the latter at: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Blogs/Garden/index.html#sep14.11 H. albiflos is starting to bloom. A few Haemanthus coccineus are in bloom, but most have not started yet. Haemanthus barkerae is still in full bloom, as are all of the [barkerae x coccineus] and reverse cross seedlings. No signs yet of H. crispus or H. lanceifolius. One lone Nerine bowdenii is starting to bloom, far ahead of its conspecific siblings. Nerine gracilis (or is it hesseoids?) is in full bloom. Nerine filifolia is blooming. We're having a first touch of Autumn, but still no frosts. Nevertheless, all the Proiphys have been moved from the lath house into the greenhouses, along with the Eucharis grandiflora. I'm not quite half way along in getting the Hymenocallis moved inside. Both Haemanthus humilis ssp. as well as Haemanthus montanus and all the Cyrtanthus have been moved into the greenhouses. The Scadoxus puniceus are all inside, but S. membranaceus and S. multiflorus katherinae are still out in the lath house. We haven't even begun to move the Crinums yet; their pots tend to be heavy and have to wait till last. Jim S. ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From mwalnik@wodip.opole.pl Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Marek Walnik" Subject: apomictic, was use of the word seedling Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:03:14 +0200 Hi, can anyone tell me how to differ the apomixis of self-pollinating in amaryllids? Marek Walnik (PL) -----Oryginalna wiadomosc----- From: Ina Crossley Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 9:39 PM Most definitely some rain lilies are apomictic. On 16/09/2011 5:18 a.m., J.E. Shields wrote: > Some rain lilies are also supposed to be apomictic. I think the Grants > did > a study on parthenogenic "species" in the rain lilies ... From joshuakyleyoung@gmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Joshua Young Subject: Habranthus from seed Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:43:14 -0400 Hi guys, I was wondering what the average amount of time it takes to bloom Habranthus from seed? I'm sure it depends on the species and cultivation but I can't seem to find much information online! -- http://www.fortheloveofbulbs.blogspot.com/ From mwalnik@wodip.opole.pl Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:06 -0700 Message-Id: <071CAA24D0B1485883885DDB23C64647@MarekKomputer> From: "Marek Walnik" Subject: Habranthus from seed Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 23:07:29 +0200 Hi, in the case of the Habranthus like this: http://mwalnik.wodip.opole.pl/botanika/foto/habranthus.html it took 4 years - grown on a windowsill. Marek W (PL) -----Oryginalna wiadomość----- From: Joshua Young Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 10:43 PM Subject: [pbs] Habranthus from seed I was wondering what the average amount of time it takes to bloom Habranthus from seed? _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From petersirises@gmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Habranthus from seed Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 23:15:39 +0100 martinezii, andersonii, and gracilifolius in my experiance may flower in their second year but more likely in their third. Peter (UK) I was wondering what the average amount of time it takes to bloom > Habranthus from seed? > > From plantnutga@gmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Erin Grace Subject: Habranthus from seed Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 19:06:21 -0400 What about Habranthus robustus or Habranthus × floryi? I have pots growing with young seedlings of each, it would be great to get some information. Erin Grace Thomasville, GA, USA USDA Hardiness zone 8b, AHS Heat zone 9 dry, dry, hot and dry this year! From brutem@mcn.org Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:06 -0700 Message-Id: <20110917013958.B63BDEA55B@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Bob Rutemoeller Subject: Photo for Allium fans Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 17:46:41 -0700 There is a great photo today on the BBC website. Good work Peter Glazebrook. I wonder if he let it flower and what that would have looked like. See: http://news.yahoo.com/photos/record-breaking-onion-1316188333-slideshow/visitors-enjoy-autumn-flowers-harrogate-20110916-061724-671.html Bob Rutemoeller brutem@mcn.org From brutem@mcn.org Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:06 -0700 Message-Id: <20110917005152.E770AEA4F8@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Bob Rutemoeller Subject: Photo for Allium fans Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 17:50:43 -0700 There is a great photo today on the BBC website. Good work Peter Glazebrook. I wonder if he let it flower and what that would have looked like. See: http://news.yahoo.com/photos/record-breaking-onion-1316188333-slideshow/visitors-enjoy-autumn-flowers-harrogate-20110916-061724-671.html Bob Rutemoeller brutem@mcn.org From klazina1@gmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4E741103.9060804@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: yellow flowered bulb Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 15:16:19 +1200 Last year I was trying to find out what this bulb was. I was given the name, however, I didn't put a label with the plant and the computer died at some stage, so have no record of it. I think it is a Sparaxis, but I cannot see it in the Wiki. I seem to remember that usually Sparaxis does not come true from seed. Except one from Italy I think. This one definitely comes true from seed, have been weeding the seedlings out, which were coming up in a garden away from this plant, so wasn't sure what the bulbs were, planted them in a spot where I would remember them and they are the same as the parent plant. So they spread! The flowers have a brown sheath over them before they open. Which I remember is typical of this bulb. They are a nice looking lot of flowers in the garden so I will keep them. So who knows what it is? It is somewhere on the Wiki. http://www.flickr.com/photos/49263888@N06/6154199339/ Ina Crossley From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: yellow flowered bulb Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 03:25:56 +0000 Sparaxis bulbifera. It comes true from seed because it is a species. It can be grown in a watered border and the corms will not rot while dormant (provided of course the soils is well drained). From klazina1@gmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4E741946.7070809@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: yellow flowered bulb Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 15:51:34 +1200 It doesn't get the cormlets which the one on the Wiki talks about, also the brown sheaths are not apparent in the photo, yet I remember the photo I saw of it on the Wiki, showed these sheaths very clearly. On 17/09/2011 3:25 p.m., Alberto Castillo wrote: > Sparaxis bulbifera. It comes true from seed because it is a species. It can be grown in a watered border and the corms will not rot while dormant (provided of course the soils is well drained). > > From awilson@avonia.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:06 -0700 Message-Id: <5A3F265FCE8B4250B5B3B36DAAECB4B0@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: Photo for Allium fans Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 20:53:30 -0700 Wonderful shots, Bob! Archetype English gardener. We need to hold our own competition for non-edible bulbs. Andrew -From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Bob Rutemoeller There is a great photo today on the BBC website. Good work Peter Glazebrook. I wonder if he let it flower and what that would have looked like. See: http://news.yahoo.com/photos/record-breaking-onion-1316188333-slideshow/visi tors-enjoy-autumn-flowers-harrogate-20110916-061724-671.html Bob Rutemoeller brutem@mcn.org From petersirises@gmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Habranthus from seed Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 08:05:34 +0100 Robustus is quick and easy too, I dont know x floryi Peter (UK) On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 12:06 AM, Erin Grace wrote: > What about Habranthus robustus or Habranthus × floryi? > From plicht@berkeley.edu Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4E74AE85.2070505@berkeley.edu> From: Paul Licht Subject: Brunsvigia josephinae Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 07:28:21 -0700 We had two large Josephne lilies (wild collected material) in our S. Africa collection since 1973. We typically get one bloom each summer. The massive bulbs have made several offsets which are now very large and for the first time, we have two pairs of blooms. I just posted a image (from yesterday) of the largest pair on our facebook (http://www.facebook.com/UCBotanicalGarden). Although I've produced many seedlings over the past 5yrs, I'm not sure I'll be around to see them bloom. One of our now retired staff just told me that he started a seed 17yrs ago and it finally bloomed this year. On another topic, for those in our area, we are making arrangements for the local PBSers to meet in the Garden next April. Paul -- Paul Licht, Director Univ. California Botanical Garden 200 Centennial Drive Berkeley, CA 94720 (510)-643-8999 http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:06 -0700 Message-Id: <20110917104015.25663@web001.roc2.bluetie.com> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Photo for Allium fans Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 10:40:15 -0400 I'll bet that's the old onion variety 'Alisa Craig'. 'Alisa Craig' is to onions as 'Dill's Atlantic Giant' is to pumpkins. Jim McKenney From msittner@mcn.org Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:06 -0700 Message-Id: <20110917150744.1F513EAFF8@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: yellow flowered bulb Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 07:48:42 -0700 Hi Ina, There is a yellow flowered Sparaxis hybrid in the trade. Someone once gave it to me. It was a good bloomer and looked a lot like yours. There is a photo of a yellow one by Paul Tyerman on the wiki Sparaxis hybrids page. When my Sparaxis showed signs of virus, I had a number of the ones in my garden tested and they told me the yellow one was virused which surprised me since it looked just fine. It made me realize that some people may sell virused plants unknowingly. This one didn't show signs of virus (or at least not the ones I was looking for) and grew well. Mary Sue From klazina1@gmail.com Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4E74F195.4060103@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: yellow flowered bulb Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 07:14:29 +1200 Thanks Mary Sue It does look like that one, although mine doesn't have the yellow centre, which may just be the photo. Did yours grow true to seed? Ina On 18/09/2011 2:48 a.m., Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > Hi Ina, > > There is a yellow flowered Sparaxis hybrid in the trade. Someone once > gave it to me. It was a good bloomer and looked a lot like yours. > There is a photo of a yellow one by Paul Tyerman on the wiki Sparaxis > hybrids page. When my Sparaxis showed signs of virus, I had a number > of the ones in my garden tested and they told me the yellow one was > virused which surprised me since it looked just fine. It made me > realize that some people may sell virused plants unknowingly. This > one didn't show signs of virus (or at least not the ones I was > looking for) and grew well. > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From ds429@comcast.net Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:06 -0700 Message-Id: <965542312.1568336.1316287939150.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: Pacific BX 285 Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 19:32:19 +0000 (UTC) Dear Matt, I am sorry to say that there was only one portion of each of the items that you ordered, and there were none left by the time I came to filling your order. Best wishes, Dell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam & Matt" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 4:40:46 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 285 Hi Dell,     I would like :     16     17                     Thanks Matt. Pam and Matt Gerrish 10 Verey Court Dandenong Vic 3175 Australia pammatto1@bigpond.com -----Original Message----- From: Dell Sherk Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 2:01 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' ; 'Mark Wilcox' ; 'Roger Macfarlane' Subject: [pbs] Pacific BX 285 Dear All,        The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared.   If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 285" in the subject line.         Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/ share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS.     Some of you are members of the online PBS discussion forum but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org ....          If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact me for instructions before sending seeds.             I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! >From Fereydoun Sharifi: SEEDS: (SUPPLIES ARE LIMITED) 1. Cyclamen cilicium album 2. Cyclamen repandum ssp repandum fa album 3. Cyclamen rohlfsianum 4. Cyclamen xhildebrandii 5. Cyclamen xsaundersiae 6. Cyclamen balericum 7. Cyclamen pelaponnesiacum 8. Cyclamen xwhitei 9. Cyclamen xwellensiekii 10. Tulbaghia comminsii 11. Tulbaghia ludwigiana 12. Tulbaghia galpini 13. Tulbaghia cernua 14. Tulbaghia capensis 15. Dipcadi marlothii 16. Bobartia aphylla 17. Cyrthanthus breviflorus 18. Aristea ecklonii >From Kathleen Sayce: 19. Bulbils of Lilium lancifolium >From Jim Shields: 20. Seed of Haemanthus humilis humilis 21. Bulbs of Lachenalia viridiflora, ex Robinett 22. Bulbs of Lachenalia reflexa 23. Bulbs of Lachenalia bulbifera, ex Silverhill 24. Bulbs of Lachenalia rubida rubra, ex Longwood >From Shirley Meneice: 25. Cormels that were on the bloom stalk of a gigantic chasmanthe.  In a clump of them, one bloom stalk grew to 7 feet high with whorls of orangey-red flowers in 9 tiers.  The top four blooms were arranged in the usual manner of a chasmanthe.  The latter had no bulbils. As you will see, the rest of the stem was quite "reproductive".  Unfortunately my gardener cut the stalk, so I cannot tell what bulb in the original clump produced such a strange bloom.  It will be interesting to see if it continues its amazing performance next year. Thank you. Fereydoun, Kathleen. Jim, and Shirley. Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ds429@comcast.net Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:58:06 -0700 Message-Id: <926371392.1568408.1316288111583.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: Pacific BX 285 Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 19:35:11 +0000 (UTC) And I am also sorry for replying to the list and for copying previous messages. So I am sitting here wearing a dunce cap. Dell From tom@evolution-plants.com Sun, 18 Sep 2011 09:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: <16880DEC-BA14-4475-B323-B7446DBE3A6D@evolution-plants.com> From: Tom Mitchell Subject: Response to Kathryn Kennedy Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 09:49:41 +0100 I realise that the conversation has moved on. Perhaps it is unnecessary to flog a dead horse but I think that Kathryn Kennedy's patronising email demands a response. Ms Kennedy says 'It's a delicate thing to engage the passionate who are convinced of their particular point of view. Sadly I think that we won't be able to convince many of the necessity for proceeding as we do in the short term.' Loosely translated: 'my passionate convictions are right; yours are wrong; and you lot are too ignorant to see it my way.' Time I think to take the gloves off, or at least to loosen the strings. Please just vote with your browser button and click onto the next post if this thread has outlived its welcome. In the blue corner we have PBS members and participants in the online discussion it promotes, quietly collecting, propagating, distributing and recruiting new enthusiasts for fascinating, sometimes rare, occasionally endangered plants. In the red corner we have the self-appointed guardians of the gates to restoration ecological Eden urging the blues to back off and wait until the science is in. > It saddens me to think that our devoted conservation horticulturists who are > so professional and work so hard to understand and recover these plants (so > that we CAN make them more widely available someday) are so misunderstood. I'm sorry you're sad, Kathryn, really I am, and I'm thrilled that you want to engage with grass roots conservationists. Can I humbly suggest, however, that if you aspire to: > be the bridge between horticultural research, popular > horticulture, and conservation! you really need to drop the patronising tone. Telling well-educated, extremely well-informed amateurs that they just don't understand how complicated all this is and please would they leave the science to the experts is not a rhetorical device destined to achieve your ends. Trust me on this. I'm a scientist. > One thing we WANT > to do is get everyone to see and enjoy these materials and identify with > them in a way that does not harm them and helps the commercial sector and > enthusiasts understand how delicate and rigorous restoration work actually > is. This education is so important before we could envision an army of > effective amateur restorationists helping us in a widespread way. For goodness' sake, we KNOW it's complicated and delicate. 'Amateur' does not equal stupid, ignorant or irresponsible. Nor does 'professional' always equal clever, informed and wise (Kudzu as soil stabiliser wasn't such a great idea, was it). Academic doesn't imply disinterested and commercial doesn't necessarily mean venal. Who exactly appointed yours as the organisation that gets to decide when 'everyone' gets to enjoy these 'materials'? What makes you think you are uniquely well placed to educate the rest of us? For a restoration ecologist to urge caution on anyone, chutzpah on a monumental scale is required. You can't even say what it is that you are attempting to reinstate - plant communities that existed before the industrial revolution; before Homo sapiens reached North America; before the Last Glacial Maximum? You brush under the carpet palynological evidence (published in journals by real scientists) that such communities bear the same relation to reality as the swin ging sixties or the golden age before rock n' roll ruined everything. You have only the faintest notion of how the structure of these communities will respond to changing climate and yet you rule out the idea of even asking the genuine experts in this field. Nurserymen are in an unrivalled position to understand how different plants perform in a wide range of habitats within and outside their current, transient native ranges because they sell plants to customers who garden in diverse conditions. Nurserymen - at least the minority who are doing their jobs for commercial reasons - want happy customers. Does it not behove you to consider what you might learn from the 'army of amateurs' as well as what you think you can teach us? > Commercialization does have real risks...including increasing the threat of > irresponsible overcollection and damage in the wild of the few existing > delicate sites remainng because of creating a wider market of interest in > the plants, people deriving material in cultivation so that it no longer has > the wild adapted traits desired and could present genetic risk to wild > populations, etc., and compassionate enthusiasts with too low an > understanding of the habitat specificity and considerations doing informal > "jonny appleseed" reintroductions in areas where they can do harm to the > target species or others in the area (and damage the reputation of > horticulturists, gardeners, and serious botanical gardens everywhere with > the state and federal resource agencies). Agreed! Creating demand without increasing supply is bound to cause tension. The USA learned the hard way during the Prohibition experiment that removing officially-sactioned supply has disastrous unintended consequences. Some of us are working very hard to create cultivated populations of threatened or potentially threatened plant genera such as Cyclamen, Galanthus and Trilium. These efforts would be far more valuable from a biodiversity conservation perspective if the plants were raised from wild-collected seed of known provenance. This would result in genetically varied cultivated populations available in future for reintroduction. Unfortunately, these efforts are hampered by treaties such as the CBD and CITES, laws made by 'compassionate enthusiasts with too low an understanding of' the counterproductive consequences? For example, most of the snowdrops in cultivation are selections made from a genetically narrow cross-section of two or three species introduced to the UK over the last few centuries. Efforts to collect and distribute seed of the highly variable G. nivalis are discouraged (though perfectly legal - Galanthus is listed in CITES appendix II) on the false basis that the species is rare in the wild and that seed collecting harms wild populations. On the contrary, G. nivalis is a common plant in the parts of its range not yet destroyed by development, tourism or agriculture but populations are small and recruitment by seed is low. As Darwin - an amateur by the way - realised 150 years ago, most seeds perish. It is easy to maintain in cultivation and collectors are motivated to preserve diversity - the very raison d'etre of collecting. > The wariness of state and federal > agencies of horticulturists getting involved in conservation has arisen > directly from these experiences, not from elitism or over-control. I myself > have seen these very harmful practices and effects...every one of them...in > my work over the years. So part of that "uptightness" is justifiable. If it weren't so alarming, your faith in state and federal agencies would be charmingly naive. Ever been to Illinois or the Amazon? That's what you get when you leave conservation in the hands of state and federal agencies. Driving around Illinois with a friend a few years ago was a surreal experience. The roads tunnelled through endless fields of corn two metres tall. The native vegetation was confined to a few swampy road intersections, a handful of sand prairies, the embankments of abandoned railroads and the sides of river gorges too steep to farm. Is the government waging a campaign to eradicate maize? Is it hell! Is it doing its level best to prevent herbicide drifting onto the few remaining patches of native flora. Nope. The government loves the farm lobby - it's rich and it's loud. The wariness of conservationists about getting state and federal agencies involved in conservation arises directly from these experiences. I myself have seen these very harmful practices an d effects, every one of them, in my work over the years. > The concept that we could engage nurseries to get busy and grow lots of > these things for repatriation is just not practical yet. I wish it WERE > easy enough to give out kits and provide instruction to good > horticulturalists and good gardeners and garden clubs everywhere With respect, if anyone ought to be handing out kits and instructions on how to grow difficult plants well, it is surely good horticulturists and good gardeners. If anyone should be requesting those kits, it is you. As others have illustrated with the examples of Worsleya and Juno Iris, the most expert growers in the world are amateurs. Your scientists would certainly 'better understand what is involved in successful projects' if they tapped into the expertise already out there. > Given the careful research and planning we have to do for each site related > to placing these plants in the right place in terms of the plant community > and security of restoration sites, the correct source material genetically > for the greatest chance of success, the numbers and type of nursery stock > for best results (liners? 2 in? gallon?), timing of planting, great care to > avoid introducing pathogens to a wild site, how we move around in the site > to prevent damage,etc. For most of these species this pilot work is ongoing > and we aren't ready yet for more widespread multiplication of reintroduction > efforts. Your efforts remind me of Winnie-the-Pooh, who set out on an expedition to find the East Pole. Your destination, like his, doesn't exist. As others have pointed out, there are several scientifically incoherent points in the paragraph above, including your unqualified use of the term 'plant community', your concerns about genetic correctness and your fears about inadvertently introducing pathogens. These issues are certainly not negligible but we amateurs are not as poorly informed about them as you seem to believe. I dare say some of us are better informed than you appear to be. > It's a delicate thing to engage the passionate who are convinced of their > particular point of view.sadly I think that we won't be able to convince > many of the necessity for proceeding as we do in the short term. Only > longer term education and information and demonstration will get us > there.I've been dreaming about a video online where some of these points are > made in the narration along with our scientists working away. The first two sentences of your final paragraph are inarguably true. So what are you going to do about it? We'd like to have you on board. Conservationists face an uphill struggle in a world run by state and federal agencies, bureaucrats and (in their dreams) academics with delusions of grandeur. We need all the help we can get. So long as you remain determined to dictate terms of engagement to those best placed to help, however, you will remain part of the problem not part of the solution. Regards, Tom From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Sun, 18 Sep 2011 09:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: Photo for Allium fans Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 14:59:32 +0100 Hi, In message <20110917104015.25663@web001.roc2.bluetie.com>, Jim McKenney writes >I'll bet that's the old onion variety 'Alisa Craig'. 'Alisa Craig' is >to onions as 'Dill's Atlantic Giant' is to pumpkins. Ailsa Craig is a mere footnote here: http://www.mammothonion.co.uk/shop/2/index.htm -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton-Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK From Jtlehmann@aol.com Sun, 18 Sep 2011 12:00:07 -0700 Message-Id: <9d79.10d5622b.3ba77943@aol.com> From: Jtlehmann@aol.com Subject: Tom Mitchell's Response to Kathryn Kennedy Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 12:41:39 -0400 (EDT) <> Tom: Thank you for very eloquently saying what (I think) most of us would like to say but don't know how. I am happy to have you on the front line of this discussion. For reintroduction to happen, the plant has to have had existed there in the first place. However, due to land being consumed for whatever reason, plants often cannot be reintroduced. So they are placed in environments where they were not "native" at this time. As Kathryn said: <<> the plants, people deriving material in cultivation so that it no longer has > the wild adapted traits desired and could present genetic risk to wild > populations, etc., and compassionate enthusiasts with too low an > understanding of the habitat specificity and considerations doing informal > "jonny appleseed" reintroductions in areas where they can do harm to the > target species or others in the area (and damage the reputation of > horticulturists, gardeners, and serious botanical gardens everywhere with > the state and federal resource agencies). >> I would think the extra genetic "risk" would be wonderful for populations as it would increase diversity. I think Nhu made a better comment on or argument for this. Plus, if one were to introduce plants from cultivation to the wild, in locations where the plants were not growing, that seems to be just what Kathryn is saying she doesn't want. Were not the introduced plants absent from that location for a reason? What about soil type of the introduced plants, micro-organisms, the existing soil...it goes on and on. So when my fishing cabin was built in north-central Minnesota, was I wrong to relocate, from the building site to elsewhere on the property, the native orchids and other plants I deemed worthy? Even though they were not plants from cultivation, in my opinion as an "amateur," Kathryn implies "no." Cheers! --Jerry Lehmann Olathe, KS, USA From ds429@comcast.net Sun, 18 Sep 2011 12:00:07 -0700 Message-Id: <000001cc7627$4eaa7da0$ebff78e0$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 286 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 13:20:42 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 286" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/ share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact me for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Nhu Nguyen: SEEDS: OP = open pollinated 1. Allium dichlamydeum - one of the latest blooming onions, thick petals, beautiful plant. OP 2. Allium hyalinum - pink form. OP 3. Allium hyalinum - white form. OP 4. Allium unifolium - tall, up to 1 foot (30cm) probably the easiest of the CA onions to grow. OP 5. Salvia patens - a tuberous species that goes dormant in winter. Sow in spring. 6. Tulbaghia acutiloba - this was a cross from two forms, one from Devon, one from unknown locality. 7. Gladiolus huttoniae x gracilis - these two plants were blooming right next to each other so I'm pretty sure these are hybrid seeds. OP 8. Zephyranthes katheriniae - yellow with orange throat form (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/5862359982/). Selfed with no other amaryllids blooming at the time. 9. Triteleia ixioides spp. scabra - from Telos Rare Bulbs, these have a nice and large open inflorescence. OP 10. Triteleia hyacinthina - from Telos Rare Bulbs. OP 11. Triteleia laxa - Tilden Form, dark purple (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/3833012934/). OP 12. Triteleia laxa - light colored form (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/2417421471/). OP 13. Freesia viridis OP most likely pure material 14. Lachenalia carnosa OP 15. Polyxena ensifolia OP 16. Chasmanthe bicolor OP most likely pure material 17. Rhodophiala advena OP most likely pure material 18. Herbertia lahue - OP with no other irids blooming at the same time. 19. Habranthus tubispathus OP most likely pure material 20. Babiana sp. mixed purple/blue - These were growing together so they are probably hybrid seeds (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/4517421736/ and http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/3500772759/) 21. Asphodeline liburnica OP most likely pure material 22. Ornithogalum viridiflorum (Galtonia viridiflora) OP most likely pure material BULBS/BUBLETS/BULBILS: Note: NNBH# are my personal accession numbers. 23. Oxalis pocockiae - pink form NNBH1271.1 24. Spiloxene capensis - NNBH200 - pink form From Lipp McMichael: 25. Seed of Veratrum californicum, ex Bearskin Meadow, Sequoia National Forest, California Thank you, Nhu and Kipp !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From kimcmich@hotmail.com Sun, 18 Sep 2011 12:00:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 286 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 11:25:00 -0700 Greetings, Just to add a little more geospecificity to the location for the Veratrum seeds I sent to the PBX, here's a google satellite plot of the location: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=212058491816488654076.0004acd897736248db7bd&msa=0 Other seeds from my trip to the Sequoias may be coming up in a future PBX. -| From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: Veratrum on Pacific Bulb Society BX 286 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 19:22:43 +0000 (UTC) The Veratrum californicum seed that is offered on BX 286 has become moldy and will not be suitable for distribution. Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kjblack@pacbell.net Sun, 18 Sep 2011 15:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1316374856.44147.YahooMailClassic@web80402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: Brunsvigia josephinae Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 12:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Thanks for posting this, Paul!   You MIGHT NOT have to wait 17 years on those seedlings!   While I have several 16 year old bulbs yet to bloom ... a few of its same-aged siblings are blooming for the first time this year, and other seedlings bloomed at 13 years.  One bloomed after 10 years and has bloomed every year since.  My seeds came from Wayne Roderick's bulb in 1995, and as I recall, he indicated he had ordered it from a supplier in England some 6 or 7 years earlier.  My understanding is he also provided a bulb or seed to the Ruth Bancroft Garden ... so also a sibling to mine ... which has bloomed several years now also.    Ken Blackford San Diego From: Paul Licht Subject: [pbs] Brunsvigia josephinae Date: Saturday, September 17, 2011, 7:28 AM We had two large Josephne lilies (wild collected material) in our S. Africa collection since 1973. We typically get one bloom each summer. The massive bulbs have made several offsets which are now very large and for the first time, we have two pairs of blooms. I just posted a image ... (http://www.facebook.com/UCBotanicalGarden).    Although I've produced many seedlings over the past 5yrs, I'm not sure I'll be around to see them bloom. One of our now retired staff just told me that he started a seed 17yrs ago and it finally bloomed this year. From xerantheum@gmail.com Sun, 18 Sep 2011 18:00:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 286 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 15:32:50 -0700 Hi everyone, Alberto Castillo pointed out to me that the item I sent in as Zephyranthes katheriniae (from BX179) is really an opened form of Habranthus tubispathus. Please take note. It took 3 years to bloom from seeds. Nhu 8. Zephyranthes katheriniae - yellow with orange throat form > (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/5862359982/). Selfed with no > other > amaryllids blooming at the time. > From threesisters@woosh.co.nz Mon, 19 Sep 2011 09:00:12 -0700 Message-Id: <350F13553D3C4E2D800DA7E2CF898DE3@DarlenePC> From: Subject: what is flowering today Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 16:56:52 +1200 Moraea gigandra flowering in the glasshouse today. I do hope this photo gets through as it is my first attempt. Cheers, Darlene Cook From ds429@comcast.net Mon, 19 Sep 2011 06:00:14 -0700 Message-Id: <165176497.1616130.1316429869019.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: PBS BX 286 CLOSED Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 10:57:49 +0000 (UTC) Packages should go out at the end of the week. Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From ds429@comcast.net Mon, 19 Sep 2011 06:00:14 -0700 Message-Id: <1136912334.1617158.1316431918726.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: BX replies Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 11:31:58 +0000 (UTC) Dear All, I have received MANY orders from BX 286, but my server is misbehaving and I don't have time to reply right now. My sense is that the supplies will not come close to filling all of your requests for some items. More info later. Dell From msittner@mcn.org Mon, 19 Sep 2011 09:00:12 -0700 Message-Id: <20110919142130.A69D0E8E48@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Attachments, embedded photos Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 07:20:15 -0700 Hi, Just a reminder that our list strips all attachments from messages. All of you are welcome to add photos to the wiki and if you want to learn how to do that, you need to email me privately. Or you can upload photos to your own web site or use Picassa or Flickr, both free and used by member of this group and give the link to the group so those people who would like to see the photos can click on the link to do so. Mary Sue From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon, 19 Sep 2011 12:00:14 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Growing Lilies in Tropical Climates? Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 12:39:49 -0500 Dear Friends, The following message came to me via the PBS web page. I am passing it along for your comments and suggestion. From: brandon > hi hello . my NAME is brandon i was watching on your website >different lilies. i live in the tropics [trinidad a twin island of >trinidad and tobago]. i love lilies with all my heart but as we know >lilies are from cold coutries i hope one day i can grow a lilum in >the tropics. after prolong research i found that a lilium was found >oth the tropics >actually congo lilium formosanum.thus far i have collected Lilium >lancifolium \'Florepleno\' and some asiatic. > i would like some advice please on growing lilium outdoors in the tropics >motto; nothing is impossible. Please reply direct to Brandon and copy to this list. Thanks Jim -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon, 19 Sep 2011 12:00:14 -0700 Message-Id: From: Diane Whitehead Subject: Growing Lilies in Tropical Climates? Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 11:02:48 -0700 When I was travelling by bus in the Philippines, I saw wild lilies growing on a steep bank beside the road. Diane Whitehead Canada From meneice@att.net Mon, 19 Sep 2011 12:00:14 -0700 Message-Id: From: Subject: Blooming today Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 11:18:14 -0700 Currently blooming in my garden are Oxalis melano stricta (yellow) Oxalis virginea (BX249, #27) Oxalis sprialis aurea Oxalis compressa (BX247, #1) Oxalis hirta, from PBS in 2009 Shirley Meneice, not "elitist" Coastal Central California USDA Zone 9, but most years (4 out of 5) Zone 10 From awilson@avonia.com Mon, 19 Sep 2011 15:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <6E77C4E5AA83485B88427A3920394979@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: Blooming today Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 12:24:18 -0700 That's great. So early! Are you watering these Oxalis? Andrew San Diego -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of meneice@att.net Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 11:18 AM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: [pbs] Blooming today Currently blooming in my garden are Oxalis melano stricta (yellow) Oxalis virginea (BX249, #27) Oxalis sprialis aurea Oxalis compressa (BX247, #1) Oxalis hirta, from PBS in 2009 Shirley Meneice, not "elitist" Coastal Central California USDA Zone 9, but most years (4 out of 5) Zone 10 From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon, 19 Sep 2011 15:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Growing Lilies in Tropical Climates? Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 19:26:59 +0000 This has been discussed before. Ll. formosanum (and philippinense) and L. longiflorum come from subtropical regions. I have seen L. formosanum naturalized (and growing freely from seed) in subtropical countries. The tropics can be different of course but position in morning sun (and afternoon shade of course) could be worth a try. The Oriental hybrids are also reported to be very tolerant of heat. From joshuakyleyoung@gmail.com Mon, 19 Sep 2011 15:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Joshua Young Subject: Growing Lilies in Tropical Climates? Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 15:43:29 -0400 While they are certainly not lillies, Hippeastrum brasilianum, solandriflorum, parodii, argentinum and a few others resemble lillies and some of the other species are just as beautiful and they can of course be grown in torpical regions! Josh -- http://www.fortheloveofbulbs.blogspot.com/ From tim@gingerwoodnursery.com Mon, 19 Sep 2011 15:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tim Chapman Subject: Growing Lilies in Tropical Climates? Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 15:14:18 -0500 On Sep 19, 2011, at 2:26 PM, Alberto Castillo wrote: > > The tropics can be different of course but position in morning sun (and afternoon shade of course) could be worth a try. The Oriental hybrids are also reported to be very tolerant of heat. Not sure if you were referring to these in particular, but the Orienpet types have done well here in south Louisiana They have been truly perennial while many other types just don't survive. These would be worth experimenting with in the tropics. The main drawback is that almost all of them are sterile (without embryo rescue) and one can't select better performing seedlings etc. I think even the initial species crosses had to be done with embryo rescue, but these aren't my specialty by any means. Another one that has done extremely well is 'Triumphator' which is an Oriental x longiflorum type. These go dormant in mid summer here, so it would be interesting to see how they adapt to year round hot weather. Tim Chapman From ds429@comcast.net Mon, 19 Sep 2011 15:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <262544662.1654842.1316464811352.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: Replying to BX 286 offer Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 20:40:11 +0000 (UTC) Dear All, If I have not yet replied to your order, it means that there is only the slimmest chance that your order can be filled. There have been more orders this time than for any other BX. If I find that there is anything left, I will send it to you. Sorry, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From ds429@comcast.net Mon, 19 Sep 2011 15:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1380494283.1655078.1316465063295.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: Having your mail set to "Digest" Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 20:44:23 +0000 (UTC) Dear All, If you have your listserv settings set to "Digest" you only receive information from the PBS elist once a day, I believe. That will sometimes leave you out of the running for the BX when the competition is highest. You should consider turning off digest. Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From joshuakyleyoung@gmail.com Mon, 19 Sep 2011 15:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Joshua Young Subject: Hippeastrum petiolatum Seed Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 16:46:18 -0400 Hi Guys, I have some seed of Hippeastrum petiolatum from a selfing but I don't have enough to distribute via the seed exchange, if someone is interested in some let me know and I can send ya some! Josh -- http://www.fortheloveofbulbs.blogspot.com/ From davbouch5@aol.com Mon, 19 Sep 2011 15:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <8CE452513FC41D2-2428-3EF64@webmail-m046.sysops.aol.com> From: davbouch5@aol.com Subject: Growing Lilies in Tropical Climates? Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 16:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Hello Brandon I live in Hawaii, and have been experimenting with lilies for about 5 years. Lilium formosanum, philippinense, wallichianum are all trumpets and grow with no problems. Orienpets (Oriental x trumpet) also seem very happy here. I have not found that they are especially sterile, and have many seedlings of tetraploid Orienpets. It seems that the main requirement in tropical areas is to grow the lilies from seed. An imported bulb that is accustomed to a cold season will not return the next year without refrigeration, but often the same variety grown from seed will return with no problem. Some require special treatment--for me, L. longiflorum needs a dry rest in August-September, or else it will keep growing from the top of the stem (Make a bulb in the air and keep growing) and never flower. Lilium Triumphator, a longiflorum hybrid, is an exception to most lilies and even imported bulbs grow and return with no problem, although I dry them out somewhat after blooming, too. The North American lily Society (NALS) has a good seed exchange every year around January (or later), and membership is worth it for the seed exchange alone. Just Google on NALS. Aloha! David Boucher Hawaii -----Original Message----- From: Tim Chapman To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Mon, Sep 19, 2011 10:14 am Subject: Re: [pbs] Growing Lilies in Tropical Climates? On Sep 19, 2011, at 2:26 PM, Alberto Castillo wrote: > > The tropics can be different of course but position in morning sun (and afternoon shade of course) could be worth a try. The Oriental hybrids are also reported to be very tolerant of heat. Not sure if you were referring to these in particular, but the Orienpet types have done well here in south Louisiana They have been truly perennial while many other types just don't survive. These would be worth experimenting with in the tropics. The main drawback is that almost all of them are sterile (without embryo rescue) and one can't select better performing seedlings etc. I think even the initial species crosses had to be done with embryo rescue, but these aren't my specialty by any means. Another one that has done extremely well is 'Triumphator' which is an Oriental x longiflorum type. These go dormant in mid summer here, so it would be interesting to see how they adapt to year round hot weather. Tim Chapman From aaron_floden@yahoo.com Mon, 19 Sep 2011 21:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1316485195.42073.YahooMailClassic@web160316.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden Subject: Growing Lilies in Tropical Climates? Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 19:19:55 -0700 (PDT) Lilium brownei and sulphureum are likely candidates also. Both are reported from north to north-central Vietnam. Aaron --- On Tue, 9/20/11, Alberto Castillo wrote: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Re: [pbs] Growing Lilies in Tropical Climates? To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2011, 3:26 AM This has been discussed before. Ll. formosanum (and philippinense) and L. longiflorum come from subtropical regions. I have seen L. formosanum naturalized (and growing freely from seed) in subtropical countries. From xerantheum@gmail.com Tue, 20 Sep 2011 00:00:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Growing Lilies in Tropical Climates? Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 21:45:54 -0700 Perhaps they are worth a try, but north-central Vietnam can get quite cold with snow in winter. Nhu On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 7:19 PM, aaron floden wrote: > Lilium brownei and sulphureum are likely candidates also. Both are reported > from north to north-central Vietnam. > > Aaron > > From rherold@yahoo.com Tue, 20 Sep 2011 03:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: <4E785145.2030201@yahoo.com> From: Roy Herold Subject: Scadoxus Seed Viability Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 10:39:33 +0200 I just collected some Scadoxus seeds, probably puniceus, this morning in South Africa. They were in the coastal woods near Durban, and look to have finished blooming about a month ago. These are huge vigorous plants, with flowers over 150mm in diameter The pods are bright green and about 8-10mm in diameter. Is there any hope these seeds are mature enough to be viable? If so, they will go to Dell once I get back home. We also saw some beautiful Scadoxus in full bloom in burned areas in the Natal Midlands yesterday at 1200m. Probably more puniceus. There were blooming Boophone disticha and Cyrtanthus tuckii in the same area. Sorry to be so clueless about the scadoxus--all new to me. --Roy La Lucia, South Africa this morning, Cape Town this afternoon, and NW of Boston on Thursday. From rrherold@gmail.com Tue, 20 Sep 2011 03:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: <4E78524B.3000501@gmail.com> From: Roy Herold Subject: Scadoxus Seed Viability Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 10:43:55 +0200 I just collected some Scadoxus seeds, probably puniceus, this morning in South Africa. They were in the coastal woods near Durban, and look to have finished blooming about a month ago. These are huge, vigorous plants, with flowers over 150mm in diameter The pods are bright green and about 8-10mm in diameter. Is there any hope these seeds are mature enough to be viable? If so, they will go to Dell once I get back home. We also saw some beautiful Scadoxus in full bloom in burned areas in the Natal Midlands yesterday at 1200m. Probably more puniceus. There were blooming Boophone disticha and Cyrtanthus tuckii in the same area. Sorry to be so clueless about the scadoxus--all new to me... --Roy La Lucia, South Africa this morning, Cape Town this afternoon, and NW of Boston on Thursday. From bulborum@gmail.com Tue, 20 Sep 2011 06:00:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Having your mail set to "Digest" Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:31:42 +0200 Hello Dell Where can I find listserv settings set to Digest In my computer Roland -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From santoury@aol.com Tue, 20 Sep 2011 06:00:10 -0700 Message-Id: <8CE45AB2948C7A7-1358-4B08E@webmail-d030.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Scadoxus Seed Viability Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 08:51:34 -0400 (EDT) NW of Boston? I'm in Newburyport. I think ripe pods would be red, but if they are large, they may be good yet. Best, Jude From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Tue, 20 Sep 2011 09:00:19 -0700 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: Having your mail set to "Digest" Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:12:50 +0100 Hi, In message , bulborum botanicum writes >Where can I find listserv settings set to Digest In my computer Roland - you are not getting the Digest form of the list (I've looked), so there's nothing to worry about. Anyone who is on the Digest and wants to change to individual emails can go to: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php click on the Change tab and then 'edit options' Dell's point was that if you get digests of this list, you don't see BX offerings as fast as those who receive the list as individual emails. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton-Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK From msittner@mcn.org Tue, 20 Sep 2011 09:00:19 -0700 Message-Id: <20110920132242.A34EDE96C5@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Having your mail set to "Digest" Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 06:22:36 -0700 Hi, You can make changes from getting individual messages from this pbs list to having messages bundled or the opposite. You can also change your pbs list settings so you won't get email while you are gone or busy and then change it back when you want to get messages again. And you can change the email address you use to get messages or unsubscribe from the list. David Pilling has made it easy to change your settings to this list by creating this link: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Click on change. If you have problems doing this, contact me privately. Mary Sue From bulborum@gmail.com Tue, 20 Sep 2011 09:00:19 -0700 Message-Id: From: bulborum botanicum Subject: Having your mail set to "Digest" Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:55:07 +0200 2011/9/20 David Pilling : > Hi, > > In message >>Where can I find listserv settings set to Digest In my computer Thanks all Roland -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Tue, 20 Sep 2011 09:00:19 -0700 Message-Id: <20110920103003.18080@web002.roc2.bluetie.com> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Growing Lilies in Tropical Climates? Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 10:30:03 -0400 No one has yet mentioned Lilium neilgherrense, the lily with the most southern natural distribution.The Kew List gives the name as L. wallichianum var. neilgherrense. I've never seen this lily, but ten years ago or so I was only about a day's drive from the Nilgiri Hills and was sooooo tempted to try to find it. I would like to see this one before i die! Two other to consider are Lilium alexandrae and L. nobilissimum. Jimj McKenney From TalkingPoints@PlantSoup.Com Tue, 20 Sep 2011 09:00:19 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nan Sterman Subject: Scadoxus Seed Viability Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 08:27:42 -0700 Those "pods" are really fruits that turn bright red and soften at the point seeds are ripe. I doubt your will ripen, but who knows! Give it a try. Worst thing is that they don't work... Or that you go back in a few weeks in search of ripe seed. Love to see photos of those plants. The sound enormous! On Sep 20, 2011, at 1:43 AM, Roy Herold wrote: > I just collected some Scadoxus seeds, probably puniceus, this morning in > South Africa. They were in the coastal woods near Durban, and look to > have finished blooming about a month ago. These are huge, vigorous > plants, with flowers over 150mm in diameter > > The pods are bright green and about 8-10mm in diameter. Is there any > hope these seeds are mature enough to be viable? If so, they will go to > Dell once I get back home. > > We also saw some beautiful Scadoxus in full bloom in burned areas in the > Natal Midlands yesterday at 1200m. Probably more puniceus. There were > blooming Boophone disticha and Cyrtanthus tuckii in the same area. > > Sorry to be so clueless about the scadoxus--all new to me... > > --Roy > La Lucia, South Africa this morning, Cape Town this afternoon, and NW of > Boston on Thursday. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From ardiebaer@att.net Tue, 20 Sep 2011 09:00:19 -0700 Message-Id: <1316533209.65567.YahooMailRC@web180917.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: lisa baer Subject: Hippeastrum petiolatum Seed Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 08:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Josh, I am interested in purchasing some of this seed. Please advise. Thanks. Ardie Baer, Houston, TX, Zone 9a ________________________________ From: Joshua Young To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Mon, September 19, 2011 3:46:18 PM Subject: [pbs] Hippeastrum petiolatum Seed Hi Guys, I have some seed of Hippeastrum petiolatum from a selfing but I don't have enough to distribute via the seed exchange, if someone is interested in some let me know and I can send ya some! Josh -- http://www.fortheloveofbulbs.blogspot.com/ From xerantheum@gmail.com Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Scadoxus Seed Viability Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 09:09:29 -0700 Hi Roy, If you cut the inflorescence off at the base of the peduncle, the seeds will continue to ripen. Keep as much of the whole inflorescence intact as you can and hopefully they will be fine. Viability is short after ripening but a month or two should be no problem. Nhu On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 1:43 AM, Roy Herold wrote: > The pods are bright green and about 8-10mm in diameter. Is there any > hope these seeds are mature enough to be viable? > From meneice@att.net Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:00:12 -0700 Message-Id: <55C8B9D73CA645DC9E5F0F567E4924FF@DF5XS5C1> From: Subject: Blooming today Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:36:08 -0700 Not watering the Oxalis, but we have had some very heavy fog lately and some unseasonal drizzle, so maybe that's what triggered them. Shirley Meneice Coastal Central California Zone 9 -10 From joshuakyleyoung@gmail.com Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:00:12 -0700 Message-Id: From: Joshua Young Subject: FW: Hippeastrum petiolatum Seed Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:46:51 -0400 > > Hi guys, > All the petiolatum seeds are spoken for, I wish I had enough to send to everyone, I'm sorry I couldn't send to more people! I will make sure to self as many flowers next bloom cycle! Josh -- http://www.fortheloveofbulbs.blogspot.com/ From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:00:12 -0700 Message-Id: <23978318.21705.1316548368402.JavaMail.www@wwinf1g30> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Yellow Autumn flowering Allium Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 21:52:48 +0200 (CEST) Hello, I have a query that perhaps the Allium experts here can help on? Last autumn I was in the Peloponese and collected in full flower a soft yellow/green flowered Allium. It was a bit like A.ericetorum. It, like A. callimischon, produces flower stalks with buds much earlier on in the year that stay closed until late september early october. Could any one help in identifying it please? Kind regards, Mark From antigre10@yahoo.gr Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:00:13 -0700 Message-Id: <1316549360.57416.YahooMailNeo@web29301.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Antigoni Rentzeperis Subject: What's blooming this week -20 September Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 21:09:20 +0100 (BST)  Haemanthus coccineus   [IMG]http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb341/anti25/DSCN8543.jpg[/IMG]   [IMG]http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb341/anti25/DSCN8555.jpg[/IMG] _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jshields@indy.net Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:00:13 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20110920162624.02a9bd30@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: What's blooming this week -20 September Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:28:40 -0400 Antigoni, very nice Haemanthus coccineus! Excellent color. The link works better edited thus: http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb341/anti25/DSCN8555.jpg Jim Shields At 09:09 PM 9/20/2011 +0100, you wrote: > Haemanthus > coccineus > [IMG]http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb341/anti25/DSCN8543.jpg[/IMG] > [IMG]http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb341/anti25/DSCN8555.jpg[/IMG] > [IMG]http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb341/anti25/DSCN8555.jpg[/IMG] > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From rahulgrant@yahoo.com Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:00:13 -0700 Message-Id: <1316551146.23586.YahooMailNeo@web120108.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Rahul Grant Subject: Growing Lilies in Tropical Climates? Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 13:39:06 -0700 (PDT) Hi all. Im new to this group. Just joined. Thanks to everyone and James Waddick  for your responses. I will take the advice/ information given. I recently got 3 bulbs of lilium lancifolium flore pleno. So ill see how well this grow. Ive read that a form of lilium formosanum /lilium zairii has been found naturallized in the Congo, Africa. Is this form of lilium formosanum/zairii in cultivation or for sale? Its leaves and stems look very tough in the pictures like it can withstand alot of heat. Id like to try this one. And for the lily browni you guys mentioned, it also from what I read can tolerate heat. And a question for David Boucher. What are your maximum temps and how do those lilies you've mentioned, that do well for you, respond to your maximum temps? Usually most things that grows in USDA zone 10 and 11 ( amd some plants from zone 9) does well here in my country. However, Im not sure about lilies cause Ive read they like cool and even though some are from sub/tropical climates they seem to be from high mountains which would be cooler.   Thanks everyone for your help Brandon, Trinidad, West Indies. Tropical maritime climate average max temp 34C From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:00:13 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Growing Lilies in Tropical Climates? Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:55:55 -0700 Perhaps Brandon, who wants to grow lilies in Trinidad, should know that Lilium formosanum can become a pest in tropical climates. I think it's even banned in some countries where it's well suited. Edward McRae's book "Lilies" (Timber Press) has a long chapter on Lilium species that offers plenty of information about these plants' native habitats and preferences. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed, 21 Sep 2011 00:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Growing Lilies in Tropical Climates? Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 23:54:35 -0500 >Hi all. Im new to this group. Just joined. Thanks to everyone and >James Waddick for your responses. >Thanks everyone for your help >Brandon, >Trinidad, West Indies. >Tropical maritime climate >average max temp 34C Dear Brandon, Welcome and glad you joined our group and got the messages direct. Whew didn't have to copy all these. Hope you can find something to help you out. Hope you can add your experience with bulbous plants in Trinidad. I think you are our first member from T & T. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From klazina1@gmail.com Wed, 21 Sep 2011 00:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: <4E7970CC.90605@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: members in various countries Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 17:06:20 +1200 I wonder how many PBS members there are in New Zealand. Also how many there are in Australia. Ina From antigre10@yahoo.gr Wed, 21 Sep 2011 00:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: <1316582670.40174.YahooMailNeo@web29316.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Antigoni Rentzeperis Subject: Σχετ: What's blooming this week -20 September Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 06:24:30 +0100 (BST) Thank you very much, Jim . Απο: J.E. Shields Προς: Pacific Bulb Society Στάλθηκε: 11:28 μ.μ. Τρίτη, 20 Σεπτεμβρίου 2011 Θεμα: Re: [pbs] What's blooming this week -20 September Antigoni,  very nice Haemanthus coccineus!  Excellent color. The link works better edited thus: http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb341/anti25/DSCN8555.jpg Jim Shields At 09:09 PM 9/20/2011 +0100, you wrote: >  Haemanthus > coccineus > [IMG]http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb341/anti25/DSCN8543.jpg[/IMG] >  [IMG]http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb341/anti25/DSCN8555.jpg[/IMG] > [IMG]http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb341/anti25/DSCN8555.jpg[/IMG] > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ************************************************* Jim Shields            USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92              WWW:    http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From contact@bulbargence.com Wed, 21 Sep 2011 00:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: "contact" Subject: Bulb Conference in South Africa Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 07:40:49 +0200 Hello,` As I was not able to attend it would be nice to have some feedback from those present. Look forward to hearing about the evernt Kind regards Lauw de Jager South of France http://www.bulbargence.com -----Original Message----- The IBSA is having a bulb and corm conference in August/September 2011 in South Africa From sgage4@eq.edu.au Wed, 21 Sep 2011 06:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <7580d97a2074.4e79a3c8@eq.edu.au> From: Shelley GAGE Subject: members in various countries Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 08:43:52 -0300 I wonder too especially for Australia. I will add photos of hippeastrum blooming in nature in Brasil when I get home from here, on the weekend. Shelley Gage Goomboorian, Queensland. On 21/09/11, Ina Crossley wrote: > > I wonder how many PBS members there are in New Zealand.  Also how many > there are in Australia. > > Ina > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From msittner@mcn.org Wed, 21 Sep 2011 09:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <20110921143546.F3572E8A75@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: members in various countries Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 07:35:22 -0700 Hi, There are more than 550 email addresses subscribed to this free pbs list. Membership in the paid Pacific Bulb Society is not required to subscribe to the pbs list or to post to the pbs list or to participate in the pbs wiki. Since the pbs list is private in the sense that email addresses are hidden from other subscribers, the only way we know where people live is when they post and include this information. The majority of the subscribers do not post so it is impossible to answer a question about where people on the pbs list live. On the other hand the Pacific Bulb Society sends out a membership directory every other year that lists contact information and interests and other information people choose to share with other paid members of the group. It is one of the benefits of joining and paying the modest annual membership fee ($20 for people in the US) and ($25 for others) along with the BX and the quarterly publication, The Bulb Garden. From my experience it has been wonderful meeting with people from around the world who are interested in growing bulbs. I consider some of these people I have met to be my best friends and before the Internet I never would have found them. Subscribers who live in New Zealand may want to contact Ina Crossley. Ina Crossley Those in Australia may want to contact Shelley Gage. (I'm spelling out the @, but you'll need to send messages in the normal email fashion.) There is an Australian_Bulb list on Yahoo and an AB_images list on Yahoo. Both have subscribers from Australia and other countries. Some people from Australia who are interested in bulbs are on those lists and not ours, but there are some common members of both. Mary Sue pbs list administrator From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed, 21 Sep 2011 12:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: members in various countries Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 11:04:00 -0500 >I wonder how many PBS members there are in New Zealand. Also how many >there are in Australia. Dear Ina and Shelley, Jane McGary, the PBS Membership Director can tell you specifics. My out of date info says there's a single member from New Zealand and 12 from Australia, but do not quote me. And I think Jane McGary is off to Chile and may not be available for a bit. If you were a member of PBS, in the last Issue of 'The Bulb Garden' I pointed out that 15 % of the PBS membership is outside the US and represents at least 13 countries and all continents (except Antarctica). About 60% of the members of the paid org are from the US Pacific Coast and 25% from the rest of the US. The Paid members also receive a biennial directory with names, addresses and email to encourage contact between members. The paid PBS membership is the only support for this list. Membership has numerous benefits. This free discussion list has different composition from the paid membership. Specific questions can be directed to Mary Sue Ittner as our director and web master. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Wed, 21 Sep 2011 12:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: <069C36E4-6B8D-40F0-A960-02817CACEC52@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: members in various countries Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 09:35:05 -0700 On Sep 21, 2011, at 4:43 AM, Shelley GAGE wrote: > I wonder too especially for Australia. I will add photos of hippeastrum blooming in nature in Brasil when I get home from here, on the weekend. > Shelley Gage Goomboorian, Queensland. I hope Shelley not only posts photos, but has some time to maybe give us a short summary of her, no doubt, wonderful botanical trip in Brazil. I would love to hear about it. When Jane McGary returns I hope she might have some time to do likewise with photos and narrative about her botanical trip in Chile. Please?! --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a Latitude 34°N, Altitude 1150 ft/350 m From dkramb@badbear.com Wed, 21 Sep 2011 12:00:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: sunchokes, yacón, and oca Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 12:46:32 -0400 Mine are potted up. Im anxious to harvest them! On Sep 21, 2011 11:18 AM, "Jim McKenney" wrote: > Dennis, I hope you have plenty of room because sunchokes are extremely vigorous and weedy. Some of them grow up to 8 or 10 feet tall, and they roam underground as annoyingly as some bamboos. > > Jim McKenney > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From agoston.janos123@gmail.com Wed, 21 Sep 2011 12:00:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: "J. Agoston" Subject: might be of interest Sinningia speciosa (Gloxinia) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 19:18:04 +0200 Dear All, I have bought a white flowered Gloxinia a few weeks ago, unfortunately it had root rot, and eventually the plant died. I just wanted to throw it away, when I checked if the soil is dried out, and I found a tuber about an inch across. That is the second time this plant surprises me. About 10 years ago I got a Gloxinia and we accidenatlly broke off the stem from the roots. I put the flowering shoot in potting soil and left it in our garage. The plant also wilted and just after the first frost I saw it grow a tuber in the soil, but the frost killed it. So wow again! This plant really wants to live :) Bye, Janos Z5a, Hungary -- Protect the environment! Please think twice before printing this e-mail. || Védjük környezetünket, csak szükség esetén nyomtassa ki ezt a levelet! From jindegales@yahoo.co.uk Wed, 21 Sep 2011 12:00:10 -0700 Message-Id: <1316628164.68674.YahooMailNeo@web28214.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> From: Michael Benedito Subject: might be of interest Sinningia speciosa (Gloxinia) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 19:02:44 +0100 (BST) I wonder if that one is Sinningia eumorpha, the true species that was hybridized with S. speciosa and others to give rise to the many hybrids we see nowadays... I find that some Sinningia species do produce tubers from stolon-like protuberances arrising from the main one. One of the most "prolific" ones is Sinningia tubiflora. But i guess that thye modern hybrids lost this feature and wont produce additional tubers. ________________________________ From: J. Agoston To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Wednesday, 21 September 2011, 18:18 Subject: [pbs] might be of interest Sinningia speciosa (Gloxinia) Dear All, I have bought a white flowered Gloxinia a few weeks ago, unfortunately it had root rot, and eventually the plant died. I just wanted to throw it away, when I checked if the soil is dried out, and I found a tuber about an inch across. That is the second time this plant surprises me. About 10 years ago I got a Gloxinia and we accidenatlly broke off the stem from the roots. I put the flowering shoot in potting soil and left it in our garage. The plant also wilted and just after the first frost I saw it grow a tuber in the soil, but the frost killed it. So wow again! This plant really wants to live :) Bye, Janos Z5a, Hungary -- Protect the environment! Please think twice before printing this e-mail. || Védjük környezetünket, csak szükség esetén nyomtassa ki ezt a levelet! From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Wed, 21 Sep 2011 15:00:07 -0700 Message-Id: <410-220119321192510203@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: ����: What's blooming this week -20 September Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 15:25:10 -0400 In bloom this week are Zephyranthes longistyla, veracunda, ex Batik and ex Karakatau...Habranthus brachyandrus, tubispathus in two flavors, Cypella herbertii ssp brevicristata, Amarcrinum Fred Howard and Crinum bulbicodium. (white jumbo seedling), various unlabeled Colchicum and Cyclamen. Mark Mazer Hertford Niorth Carolina USA USDA 8a From klazina1@gmail.com Wed, 21 Sep 2011 15:00:07 -0700 Message-Id: <4E7A4387.7050206@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: members in various countries Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 08:05:27 +1200 Thank you, Shelley, Don, Jim and MarySue. I remembered after Albert emailed me privately, that of course I have the membership list. So perhaps my question should have been differently put. I am green with envy when hearing about bulb conferences in the US. I will never be able to attend one of those. However, it would be great if we could have one for Australia/ New Zealand, which could include the people on the emailing list as well as members. I know I have had responses over the years when I was on the emailing list but not a member yet, from 2 people in NZ. It doesn't sound like there are enough people to have a conference on this side of the world. A pity. If anyone is on the emailing list and would be interested, please contact me at klazina1 at gmail.com. I don't think I can include the symbol for at, so please use the proper symbol if answering me privately Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand On 22/09/2011 3:01 a.m., Don Journet wrote: > Dear Ina, > You did not say what your reason for wanting to know > members of the pbs in Australia. I am not a member but a contributor > to the list and live in Australia. I am a member of quite a number of > organisations and it would be a strain to join more but I was invited > to participate as I have a collection of Lachenalia. I hope this helps > you gain a picture of the distribution of enthusiasts. > > Kind Regards > Don Journet > > On 21/09/2011 3:06 PM, Ina Crossley wrote: >> I wonder how many PBS members there are in New Zealand. Also how many >> there are in Australia. >> >> Ina >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > > -- > Don Journet > 34 Mc Crae Street, > Maddingley > Victoria 3340 > Australia > +61 3 5367 1432 From dkramb@badbear.com Wed, 21 Sep 2011 15:00:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: might be of interest Sinningia speciosa (Gloxinia) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 16:09:44 -0400 I started growing Sinningia species (and hybrids) about 15 months ago. My experience is very similar to Janos'. I have lost plants to pests and/or neglect... but they resprout from the tubers. I'm growing Sinningia speciosa, S. tubiflora, S. sellovii, S. eumorpha, S. cardinalis, S. sceptrum, and a few others... In fact I should have S. cardinalis seed for the PBS BX soon. Some of my plants I acquired from the PBS BX. Others I obtained through Gesneriad Society events. (I'm growing lots of other gesneriads too... mostly South American species.) I really love the hairy fuzzy Sinningias but I'm not growing many of those yet. Dennis in Cincinnati From jindegales@yahoo.co.uk Wed, 21 Sep 2011 15:00:07 -0700 Message-Id: <1316641351.10039.YahooMailNeo@web28215.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> From: Michael Benedito Subject: might be of interest Sinningia speciosa (Gloxinia) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 22:42:31 +0100 (BST) Im also a Gesneriadaholic. But my main focus are Kohleria, Smithiantha, Gloxinia (the true genus), Seemannia and things alike. I also grow Rhytidophyllum, Gesneria, Vanhouttea, Hypocyrta, Unifoliate Streptocarpus, Nemathanthus and a few Columnea (Dalbergaria). One of the genera im looking for are Paradrymonia, do you grow these Dennis? Regards Michael ________________________________ From: Dennis Kramb To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Wednesday, 21 September 2011, 21:09 Subject: Re: [pbs] might be of interest Sinningia speciosa (Gloxinia) I started growing Sinningia species (and hybrids) about 15 months ago. My experience is very similar to Janos'.  I have lost plants to pests and/or neglect... but they resprout from the tubers. I'm growing Sinningia speciosa, S. tubiflora, S. sellovii, S. eumorpha, S. cardinalis, S. sceptrum, and a few others... In fact I should have S. cardinalis seed for the PBS BX soon. Some of my plants I acquired from the PBS BX.  Others I obtained through Gesneriad Society events.  (I'm growing lots of other gesneriads too... mostly South American species.) I really love the hairy fuzzy Sinningias but I'm not growing many of those yet. Dennis in Cincinnati From dkramb@badbear.com Wed, 21 Sep 2011 18:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: might be of interest Sinningia speciosa (Gloxinia) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 18:24:21 -0400 I'm growing geophytic gesneriads such as Sinningia, Smithiantha, Chrysothemis, Diastema, Gloxinella, Niphaea, and Kohleria. And fibrous rooted gesneriads such as Primulina (formerly Chirita), Streptocarpus, Episcia, Aeschynanthus, Drymonia, Columnea, Nematanthus, and Saintpaulia. ALMOST my entire collection is New World genera. I've grown disappointed with many as they are too finicky about watering and/or lighting and/or overly susceptible to pests/fungus. My standout favorites are Primulina (all of them, but especially P. tamiana), Sinningia cardinalis, Niphaea oblonga, Gloxinella lindeniana, and Diastema vexans. I also have to admit that Aescynanthus, which I didn't even want, has been a splendid house plant...and is in bloom again now. I tried lots of other genera from seed but without successful germination. I'm not familiar with many of the genera you listed, beleive it or not, even though I recognize they're New World. Dennis in Cincinnati (really upset to have missed the gesneriad shows & sales in Nashville, TN and Mansfield, OH earlier this month) On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Michael Benedito wrote: > Im also a Gesneriadaholic. But my main focus are Kohleria, Smithiantha, Gloxinia (the true genus), Seemannia and things alike. I also grow Rhytidophyllum, Gesneria, Vanhouttea, Hypocyrta, Unifoliate Streptocarpus, Nemathanthus and a few Columnea (Dalbergaria). > > One of the genera im looking for are Paradrymonia, do you grow these Dennis? > > Regards > Michael > > > > ________________________________ > From: Dennis Kramb > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: Wednesday, 21 September 2011, 21:09 > Subject: Re: [pbs] might be of interest Sinningia speciosa (Gloxinia) > > I started growing Sinningia species (and hybrids) about 15 months ago. > My experience is very similar to Janos'.  I have lost plants to pests > and/or neglect... but they resprout from the tubers. > > I'm growing Sinningia speciosa, S. tubiflora, S. sellovii, S. > eumorpha, S. cardinalis, S. sceptrum, and a few others... In fact I > should have S. cardinalis seed for the PBS BX soon. > > Some of my plants I acquired from the PBS BX.  Others I obtained > through Gesneriad Society events.  (I'm growing lots of other > gesneriads too... mostly South American species.) > > I really love the hairy fuzzy Sinningias but I'm not growing many of those yet. > > Dennis in Cincinnati > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From rahulgrant@yahoo.com Wed, 21 Sep 2011 18:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1316644990.11938.YahooMailNeo@web120108.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Rahul Grant Subject: (no subject) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 15:43:10 -0700 (PDT) Hi everyone To;Jane Mc Gary thanks for the information, almost finish reading the book. but really cant see why a beautiful plant can be call a pest lol. Most of the lilies found in tropical areas are over 1000metres, my tallest peak is 958 metres and i live at about 50 metres .So i am trying the lilies under a tree in my garden where it gets morning sun because at midday it can get really hot like 35c hopes it a success wish me luck!   To; James thanks for everything, i love bulbous plant i have a few amaryllis and other plants as well can wait to try new bulb plants   thanks Brandon R Grant From rahulgrant@yahoo.com Wed, 21 Sep 2011 18:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1316645215.60191.YahooMailNeo@web120107.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Rahul Grant Subject: Growing lilies in tropical climates? Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 15:46:55 -0700 (PDT) ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Rahul Grant To: list Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 6:43 PM Subject: Hi everyone To;Jane Mc Gary thanks for the information, almost finish reading the book. but really cant see why a beautiful plant can be call a pest lol. Most of the lilies found in tropical areas are over 1000metres, my tallest peak is 958 metres and i live at about 50 metres .So i am trying the lilies under a tree in my garden where it gets morning sun because at midday it can get really hot like 35c hopes it a success wish me luck! To; James thanks for everything, i love bulbous plant i have a few amaryllis and other plants as well can wait to try new bulb plants thanks Brandon R Grant From jane@sonic.net Wed, 21 Sep 2011 18:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <4E7A69B8.3010302@sonic.net> From: Jane Merryman Subject: IBSA Symposium Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 15:48:24 -0700 Would anyone who attended the 50th Anniversary Symposium of the IBSA in August like to tell us about it in an article in our quarterly newsletter, The Bulb Garden? The deadline is November for the Winter issue. If you are interested, please contact me at jane@sonic.net. Jane Merryman editor, The Bulb Garden -- Read my blog at www.janemerryman.com From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu, 22 Sep 2011 09:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: members in various countries Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:20:40 -0500 >I am green with envy when hearing about bulb conferences in the US. I >will never be able to attend one of those. However, it would be great >if we could have one for Australia/ New Zealand, which could include the >people on the emailing list as well as members. Dear Ina, Conference - shmonference It's just about spring there. Why not just try to arrange coffee and cookies in some one's garden. If 6 or 8 people can show up, bring some bulbs, bring some friends (potential members?) and just talk and share about your bulb favorites. > >It doesn't sound like there are enough people to have a conference >on this side of the world. A pity. Good luck. I bet we can arrange for a few extra copies of the latest 'The Bulb Garden" , a small pack of book marks and encouragement. Even a simple bulb and plant exchange can spark some interesting conversations. Enjoy. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From msittner@mcn.org Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:00:10 -0700 Message-Id: <20110922024827.A6CAFE9578@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: What's blooming this week -20 September Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 19:48:24 -0700 Hi, Newly blooming this week are these Oxalis: Oxalis pardalis MV 7632, Oxalis hirta (mauve form), Oxalis polyphylla v. heptaphylla MV 43811B, Oxalis bowiei, and Oxalis zeekoevleyensis. Unlike Shirley I start watering in August. I found from experience if I waited until it starts to rain to water Oxalis, they fall blooming ones are late to appear and don't bloom. I tend to plant them as I see them starting into growth. Also blooming are Gladiolus carmineus, Zephyranthes candida, Bessera elegans, Nerine angustifolia, Tulbaghia cominsii x violacea, Hesperoxiphion peruvianum, Nerine humilis, and some other new Nerine hybrids. One that has been blooming and I never added to the wiki, but I think it would probably qualify since it is deciduous and looks tuberous is Talinum paniculatum. I note that it is described as an annual or a subshrub some places, but I started seed many years ago and one I put in a container continues to reappear every year grown outside in my climate and not sheltered from the winter rainfall. When looking up about it on the Internet I found comments that the leaves are edible and a good spinach substitute. Perhaps I should save seed for the BX for all those people who like to grow bulbs with edible parts. Another bizarre blooming at the moment is Delphinium luteum. Normally this time of year it is still dormant. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From awilson@avonia.com Thu, 22 Sep 2011 00:00:12 -0700 Message-Id: <8E9ADF63BEEA4646B14DD01E1DBFE16F@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: What's blooming this week -20 September Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 22:47:27 -0700 Dear Mary Sue, This is very interesting information. I can understand your reasons for starting in August and had not realised it was necessary for you to do this. Here, I do not start to water until about right now (mid- to late-Sptember). The earliest species, such as O. massonia, come to bloom very quickly, especially so if we get hot weather. Blooming in many species peaks from mid-October through mid-December, then tapers off until February when it picks up again for the late blooming species. If I were to start the season sooner, high temperature bursts that usually occur at this time of year would shorten the blooming season and make watering difficult. It would be interesting to hear how other growers stage their winter-growing Oxalis season. Andrew San Diego -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Mary Sue Ittner Hi, Newly blooming this week are these Oxalis: Oxalis pardalis MV 7632, Oxalis hirta (mauve form), Oxalis polyphylla v. heptaphylla MV 43811B, Oxalis bowiei, and Oxalis zeekoevleyensis. Unlike Shirley I start watering in August. I found from experience if I waited until it starts to rain to water Oxalis, they fall blooming ones are late to appear and don't bloom. I tend to plant them as I see them starting into growth. Also blooming are Gladiolus carmineus, Zephyranthes candida, Bessera elegans, Nerine angustifolia, Tulbaghia cominsii x violacea, Hesperoxiphion peruvianum, Nerine humilis, and some other new Nerine hybrids. One that has been blooming and I never added to the wiki, but I think it would probably qualify since it is deciduous and looks tuberous is Talinum paniculatum. I note that it is described as an annual or a subshrub some places, but I started seed many years ago and one I put in a container continues to reappear every year grown outside in my climate and not sheltered from the winter rainfall. When looking up about it on the Internet I found comments that the leaves are edible and a good spinach substitute. Perhaps I should save seed for the BX for all those people who like to grow bulbs with edible parts. Another bizarre blooming at the moment is Delphinium luteum. Normally this time of year it is still dormant. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers From info@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org Thu, 22 Sep 2011 09:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <20110922132705.2BFFBE9471@lists.ibiblio.org> From: "iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org" (by way of Mary Sue Ittner ) Subject: Lilium neilgherense Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 06:20:58 -0700 Ref Jim's posting on this and two other taxa of subtropical Lilium I have all three taxa in the botanical Lilium conservation collection here Jim. While noting that this taxon Lilium neilgherense is in some instances treated as a synonym for Lilium wallichianum it appears sufficiently different to, in my view, warrant full species status however it undoubtedly does have a very distant in geological terms [and time] relationship however they are I would suggest true species, if we ever get a precise definition for that from amongst the lumpers and splitters. Whether or not they are able to be hybridised I cannot say because this year apart from having asynchronistic flowering I was unable to undertake artificial pollination and in any event ambient air temps were so low this Spring insect activity has led to very poor to almost non existent natural pollination. Generally I would regard myself as a 'lumper'. In the main L. neilgherense is an obvious white taxon but plants tending to forma rosea have been reported in nature but I have not seem them. Due to agricultural pressure pushing tea plantations ever further uphill in the area of the main distribution this lily is under threat, another source of pressure is the fondness of wild pigs - Sus scrufa who positively adore the bulbs and will grub out a whole colony overnight unless growing in boulder areas. Seed is the usual route for propagation however I found that my stock appear to be clonal and sent to me as waxy white bulbils produced by their wandering underground stems much as for example with L. lankongense. In respect to the two Japanese taxa LL. alexandrae and nobilissimum these are very much distinct in a number of characters but no doubt their evolutionary relationships are not dissimilar to that of the above Indian taxa. These latter two have another distant relative, even more subtropical in L. philippinense from further south. There is a general dearth of seed here in northern Europe from amongst most of the geophytes owing to cold Spring weather but perhaps it might be possible to help next year if the gods are kind, we are all getting rather fed up with the struggle caused by the return to colder climates, until recently it has been possible here to get away with quite a lot including Lilium nepalense going native despite lack of snow cover during a - 22 C ground frost episode last January but up they came again this year until the deer nobbeled them. Venison pie was little consolation. Iain From jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Thu, 22 Sep 2011 09:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <20110922103429.31619@web005.roc2.bluetie.com> From: "Jim McKenney" Subject: Talinum paniculatum; was Re: What's blooming this week -20 September Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:34:29 -0400 Mary Sue mentioned Talinum paniculatum. This odd plant, a relative of Phemeranthus (many of which are still known as Talinum) and Lewisia and a member of the Portulacaceae has been grown here on the East Coast for a long time as a self-sowing annual. But as Mary Sue points out, it really is a soft shrubby perennial. It was commercialized as Jewels of Opar, a confusing name because it seems to point to a name used in one of the old Edgar Rice Burroughs Tarzan stories, yet is confusingly similar to the Biblical place name Ophir, a city famous for its jewels. It’s native to Mexico and the Caribbean. If you want to keep it from year to year, simply dig it up, shake off the soil, and put the succulent roots into a plastic bag (after they are dry – if they are not dry when you put them it the plant will continue to grow). My experience suggests that they are tough as nails. I described it above as an odd-looking plant. Imagine a fleshy Impatiens with wire thin flower stalks set with tiny bright magenta flowers which are soon followed by tiny shiny ruby red seed capsules. There are never many flowers open at one time, and the seed capsules are as ornamental as the flowers, yet if given space and not tangled among other plants, this plant does have a real presence in the garden: there is something about it which allows it to produce a much bigger impact than the resources at hand might suggest. But watch out: here it self sows, in some areas it’s weedy and invasive. Jim McKenney _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From mwalnik@wodip.opole.pl Thu, 22 Sep 2011 09:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Marek Walnik" Subject: members in various countries Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 17:03:39 +0200 "I am green with envy" too, watching PBS Meeting 2011 page on the Wiki! Marek W. (PL - are there any members/friends of PBS or even PBS mailing list here???) -----Oryginalna wiadomość----- From: James Waddick Subject: Re: [pbs] re members in various countries >I am green with envy when hearing about bulb conferences in the US. ... Dear Ina, Conference - shmonference .... Jim W. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu, 22 Sep 2011 12:00:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Talinum paniculatum; was Re: What's blooming this week -20 September Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 11:13:24 -0500 >Mary Sue mentioned Talinum paniculatum. Dear Freiends, I too was a little surprised at this inclusion. I consider it a weed here especially in pots kept above freezing. Mary Sue's comments sent me to the web where I found it is indeed a tuberous rooted perennial ( I thought it an annual) and edible (even found a couple recipes). I started with a plant of the variegated form, but all seedlings came up with gold foliage ala 'Kingswood Gold'. I never get typical green seedlings. But I treat it as an annual and thus lost my original variegated which was very attractive. I think the common name 'Jewels' of Opar' was just made up to 'cash in' on a tie to Tarzan and the name stuck long after the book has disappeared. I usually let a few grow - seeds produced and then they are allowed to succumb to our cold. So thanks Mary Sue (Again) for pointing out an unexpected geophyte and new addition to the wiki some day. Best Jim -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu, 22 Sep 2011 12:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: What's blooming this week -20 September Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 11:17:30 -0500 Dear Friends, A few unexpected surprises. Rhodophiala popped up in a pot, very red. Considering the climate this year, we have a nice clump of Lycoris radiata in bloom here. Most fall foliage species do badly, but this winter we had rare snow cover - even with -12 F temps. The summer was a near record warm. The combination of snow cover protection and summer heat surely coincides with the best bloom ever or this species. Even a couple 'abandoned' bulbs sent up stalks. A few Zephyranthes candida continue to bloom and Lycoris caldwelli is just about finished. Best Jim -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From michaelcmace@gmail.com Thu, 22 Sep 2011 12:00:10 -0700 Message-Id: <005701cc7949$171fdf40$455f9dc0$@com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: What's blooming week of 9-20, and Oxalis watering Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:00:09 -0700 Just opened in my garden this week is a nice pink form of Rhodophiala bifida, courtesy of Steve Vinisky years ago. Thanks, Steve! The bud on Brunsvigia marginata is starting to turn pink. I'm probably about a week from the opening of the first flowers. The Oxalis I mentioned last time are still in bloom. The early-blooming ones tend to stay in bloom all fall. They have been joined by: --MV 4871, which Michael Vassar identified as possibly Oxalis depressa. It has fairly large white flowers. --O. stenorrhyncha, which looks like a miniature palm tree with salmon orange flowers on it. Andrew wrote: >> It would be interesting to hear how other growers stage their winter-growing Oxalis season. I start watering my Oxalis at the beginning of August here in San Jose. My daytime temperatures are into the low 90s F right now (around 33C), and the Oxalis pots get sun until about noon. I know it sounds crazy to water winter-growing bulbs at the height of summer's heat, but the Oxalis told me to do it. Years ago I had some of them stored dry in envelopes, waiting for repotting, and they almost all started growing in early August, while still in the envelopes. If they don't get watered, the little thready roots dry out, and I think it damages the bulbs. The other plant I start watering in early August is Moraea polystachya. The plants are over a foot tall (.3m) already, dark green and vigorous. They look like corn plants. This species has a reputation as an unreliable bloomer, but it is very reliable for me. Mike San Jose, CA (zone9, min temp 20F / -7C) From joshuakyleyoung@gmail.com Thu, 22 Sep 2011 12:00:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: Joshua Young Subject: What's Blooming? Hippeastrum papilio x brasilianum Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 13:35:55 -0400 Hi guys, Here is another Hippeastrum papilio x brasilianum blooming, this one is fragrant and quite beautiful! http://www.flickr.com/photos/65602530@N05/6172334987/ Here is another Hippeastrum hybrid blooming, it's 'Pencilled Peppi' from Maguires Hippeastrum Farm in Australia. http://www.flickr.com/photos/65602530@N05/6172864086/ Josh! -- http://www.fortheloveofbulbs.blogspot.com/ From awilson@avonia.com Thu, 22 Sep 2011 12:00:10 -0700 Message-Id: <1C5D5586B45B41F2B40E8CA9122EB1B3@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: What's blooming week of 9-20, and Oxalis watering Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 11:30:35 -0700 Mike, So you start watering in August also. There is no doubt that some of the Oxalis species of South Africa do get some rain in February (same as August north of equator) but not very much. Those from namaqualand may not receive rain until May(=November). The threadlike roots get ready for activity underground but I don't think many of the northern species begin aboveground until it really does rain. I have little difficulty with repotting once these threadlike roots showing but that may depend on the condition of the potting mix. However, if starting water in August works for you, that's really all that matters. It would shorten the blooming season for me to start earlier. Andrew San Diego Subject: [pbs] What's blooming week of 9-20, and Oxalis watering Just opened in my garden this week is a nice pink form of Rhodophiala bifida, courtesy of Steve Vinisky years ago. Thanks, Steve! The bud on Brunsvigia marginata is starting to turn pink. I'm probably about a week from the opening of the first flowers. The Oxalis I mentioned last time are still in bloom. The early-blooming ones tend to stay in bloom all fall. They have been joined by: --MV 4871, which Michael Vassar identified as possibly Oxalis depressa. It has fairly large white flowers. --O. stenorrhyncha, which looks like a miniature palm tree with salmon orange flowers on it. Andrew wrote: >> It would be interesting to hear how other growers stage their winter-growing Oxalis season. I start watering my Oxalis at the beginning of August here in San Jose. My daytime temperatures are into the low 90s F right now (around 33C), and the Oxalis pots get sun until about noon. I know it sounds crazy to water winter-growing bulbs at the height of summer's heat, but the Oxalis told me to do it. Years ago I had some of them stored dry in envelopes, waiting for repotting, and they almost all started growing in early August, while still in the envelopes. If they don't get watered, the little thready roots dry out, and I think it damages the bulbs. The other plant I start watering in early August is Moraea polystachya. The plants are over a foot tall (.3m) already, dark green and vigorous. They look like corn plants. This species has a reputation as an unreliable bloomer, but it is very reliable for me. Mike San Jose, CA (zone9, min temp 20F / -7C) From klazina1@gmail.com Thu, 22 Sep 2011 15:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: <4E7B93FE.2010004@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: members in various countries Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 08:01:02 +1200 Now that is an idea Jim! I think I might put something in a couple of plant magazines here, see what interest there is. And let you know. Good time of the year to do so, with summer coming on. Thanks Ina :-) > Good luck. I bet we can arrange for a few extra copies of the > latest 'The Bulb Garden" , a small pack of book marks and > encouragement. > > Even a simple bulb and plant exchange can spark some > interesting conversations. > > Enjoy. Jim W. From ds429@comcast.net Thu, 22 Sep 2011 15:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: <769157304.1841282.1316727114931.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: What's blooming 9/22/11 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 21:31:54 +0000 (UTC) After two 2 - 3 foot floods in my largest hardy bulb garden, I am thrilled to report that the colc hicums are almost as good as usual, and that one lone Sternbergia lutea is putting up a bloom. Dell, in SE Pennsylvania, USA, zone 6/7 From jshields@indy.net Thu, 22 Sep 2011 18:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20110922174917.02b8bdd8@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: What's blooming this week -20 September Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 18:03:25 -0400 Outdoors, many Colchicum are in bloom: cilicicum came first, then byzantinum and now 'The Giant' and bornmuelleri. One lone Crinum bulbispermum has sent up a last-of-the-season rebloom scape. It's quite nice to see at this time of the year. A Scilla whose name I've forgotten has naturalized itself all over one area, and is now showing a mass of pinkish blooms. In the greenhouses, many Haemanthus are still blooming, including coccineus, crispus, and lanceifolius, as well as good old albiflos. Cyclamen graecum, one of the few species of cyclamen that seems to survive my harsh greenhouse conditions in summer, is blooming. Zephyranthes longifolia and Z. minima are blooming as well, They do amazingly well if one waters them occasionally. In the orchard, the Carpathian (hardy English) walnuts are just about finished and the Chinese Chestnuts are just getting started. The question is, did we get the spraying timed right this summer, or are we going to have piles of wormy chestnuts? Even the !@~#$%+?^&*! squirrels won't eat the wormy nuts. Jim S. ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From antennaria@charter.net Thu, 22 Sep 2011 21:00:07 -0700 Message-Id: <3a63077e.2b4e3.13293ccf8eb.Webtop.48@charter.net> From: Mark McDonough Subject: Yellow Autumn flowering Allium Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 21:01:16 -0400 (EDT) Mark BROWN wrote: > Hello, > I have a query that perhaps the Allium experts here can help on? > Last autumn I was in the Peloponese and collected in full flower a > soft yellow/green flowered Allium. > It was a bit like A.ericetorum. > It, like A. callimischon, produces flower stalks with buds much > earlier on in the year that stay closed until late september early > october. > Could any one help in identifying it please? > Kind regards, > Mark Hi Mark, your Allium sounds interesting, do you have a photo of it? In the past 20 years there's been dozens of new species named in Greece (including some in Crete and Aegean Islands). I found one paper that reported there are 85 species in Greece. Many of these species seem closely allied to the Allium cupani and A. callimischon group, that produce the early deciduous leaves leaving bare stems and inconspicuous buds that pop into bloom in late summer to fall, as you described for A. callimischon; I think the taxonomists in the region might be splitting hairs of slicing their onions too thinly ;-) You can google "allium species greece" (without quotes) and get lots of links to separately published species, some are available as free PDFs with good descriptions and line drawings or a photo or two, most are unfortunately for purchase, so it's hard to know more about many of these species other than a name. There's a surprising number of fall bloomers from the region, some are endemic while others range into neighboring areas like Turkey and Cyprus. Of those Grecian Allium species that I think are late blooming include: apolloniensis, aegilicum, ritsii, callimischon, chamaespathum, tardans, dilitatum, eivissanum, pentadactyli, chalkii, rhodiacum, platakisii, cupani ssp. hirtovaginatum, brussalisii (2008), archeotrichon, etc. I can't tell you which of these might have yellow flowers. Another new one, Allium apergii (described 2009), has yellow to greenish yellow flowers, blooms July-August. There are other new to new-ish names, I don't know much about them, nor about when they flower, such as A. dirphianum, phitosianum, rausii, samothracicum (2000, blooms June-July), brulloi, runemarkii, lagarophylum, and more. So, I can't really narrow down your search for an ID very much, other than offering this context. On the Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum, there have been photos of late-summer or autumn blooming alliums from the Aegean region, here are some links: Links to photos of two fall bloomers, A. tardans & A. chamaespathum (click on thumbnails to enlarge) http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5766.msg169888#msg169888 Allium autumnale from Cyprus (click on thumbnail to enlarge) http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3028.msg110846#msg110846 Allium tardiflorum (Israel, thought to be related to A. tardans) (click on thumbnail to enlarge) http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2017.msg56007#msg56007 Unknown (yellowish) autumn flowering Allium from S Turkey? http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2881.msg67736#msg67736 Mark McDonough The Onion Man :-) USDA Zone 5 Massachusetts, USA (near the New Hampshire border) From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Fri, 23 Sep 2011 00:00:07 -0700 Message-Id: <1798165165.121326.1316759205022.JavaMail.www@wwinf1m16> From: Mark BROWN Subject:  Yellow Autumn flowering Allium Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 08:26:44 +0200 (CEST) Dear Mark, Many thanks for the most helpful and erudte information. It was in mid October last year that I was in the Peloponese. I did find two other species, lots of Allium callimischon and something much like Allium chamaespathum as well. The one I would like to identify if possible was pale yellow not green nor white. I don't have a photo of it sorry, as it is not performing for me this year.It has just leaves. I will take photos if it flowers next year. Kind regards, Mark M.W. Brown 1924 route de la mer 76119 Sainte Marguerite-sur-mer France "There's a surprising number of fall bloomers from the region, some are > endemic while others range into neighboring areas like Turkey and > Cyprus. Of those Grecian Allium species that I think are late blooming > include: apolloniensis, aegilicum, ritsii, callimischon, chamaespathum, > tardans, dilitatum, eivissanum, pentadactyli, chalkii, rhodiacum, > platakisii, cupani ssp. hirtovaginatum, brussalisii (2008), > archeotrichon, etc. I can't tell you which of these might have yellow > flowers.> Mark McDonough" From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Fri, 23 Sep 2011 06:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <019801cc79eb$b33aea80$19b0bf80$@ab.ca> From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: Talinum paniculatum; was Re: What's blooming this week -20 September Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 06:24:11 -0600 Who knew? I picked up a Talinum this spring at one of our garden centers, I had never seen it before. Good to know it can stay alive over the winter indoors, I will attempt it. Linda Foulis Red Deer, AB Still no frost, and we're experiencing warmer than usual for this time of year. Plants that I rarely see bloom are in full bloom at the moment, I love it!! From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Fri, 23 Sep 2011 12:00:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Talinum paniculatum; was Re: What's blooming this week -20 September Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 16:01:17 +0000 Linda, there are Talinums in Mexico, South America and South Africa that are naturally dormant in winter. From maxwithers@gmail.com Fri, 23 Sep 2011 12:00:07 -0700 Message-Id: <4E7CC024.4020300@gmail.com> From: Max Withers Subject: What's blooming week of 9-20 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:21:40 -0700 A single Crocus cartwrightianus and one Colchicum have popped up this week. This morning I spotted the first leaf on a Boophane haemanthoides I planted this summer -- the other amaryllids, both new and established, are still dormant. I was very pleasantly surprised to get one Nerine sarniensis bloom a few weeks ago from a batch that I moved last summer, after they failed to bloom for several years. My new Tropaeolum tricolor seem to be doing well after they emerged unexpectedly early from dormancy and I started watering them about a month ago. I'm about to pot up a number of (mostly) California natives that have been sitting in the garage all summer. It will be interesting to see if any have initiated root growth yet. Best, Max Withers Oakland CA Conditions similar to Michael's but a few degrees cooler and perhaps more fog drip. From wusong@evilemail.com Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: dave s Subject: New Drimiopsis Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:02:29 -0400 Thanks to everybody who responded - I'll get some pics up as soon as possible. Best regards, Dave On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 10:40 PM, Tim Harvey wrote: > > Juvenile plants have almost circular leaves, held horizontally, very close > to the soil surface. Only as they mature do they look like the plant > pictured. > > Quite a few Drimiopsis have elongated, tunic-less bulbs. > > T > > > The only image I find is of a plant grown in Japan with crenulate > margins and relatively round leaves. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From johannes-ulrich-urban@t-online.de Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: <1R7BEJ-1JDCXm0@fwd20.t-online.de> From: "Johannes-Ulrich Urban" Subject: Nerine 'Zeal Giant' Date: 23 Sep 2011 19:09 GMT Dear All, After some years of patience my small pot of Nerine 'Zeal Giant' now has two scapes of magnificent flowers. I think it is a hybrid between N. bowdenii and N. sarniensis and the flowers have that fascinating crystalline glitter in them, from the sarniensis parent, the colour is an intense purplish pink. My Nerine bowdenii next door looks very small and pale right now...... I followed the comments on this list on virus activation following fertilization, this happened to that plant last year to a worrying extent and I considered to throw the pot away to prevent infection to other plants. Of course I gave it a lot of balanced liquid feed thecause I thought this bulb might be greedy and of course I was impatient to see flowers. I kept it, could not throw it away, no fertilizer whatsoever this year, and here she is..... The leaves still look a bit mottled but much greener than last year. My first sight of this beauty was a very big pot in full bloom with at least 10 scapes in the Chelsea Physic Garden in London, and I could not rest until I found a source (Broadleigh Gardens, but they do not sell it every year) I self pollinated the flowers today, does anybody know if these hybrids come true from seed? Nerine can be apomictic (setting seed without pollination which is genetically identical to the seed parent) but I do not know if this also applies to complex hybrids. greetings from Germany, very nice sunny mild late summer weather Uli From petersirises@gmail.com Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: might be of interest Sinningia speciosa (Gloxinia) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 20:18:55 +0100 Not exactly bulbous but I too have about 8 species of Pterocosmia - Is the Genus currently recognised? P Kirkii has more or less faded out but was very lovely for some years. Peter (UK) On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Dennis Kramb wrote: > And fibrous rooted gesneriads such as Primulina (formerly Chirita), > Streptocarpus, Episcia, Aeschynanthus, Drymonia, Columnea, > Nematanthus, and Saintpaulia > From dkramb@badbear.com Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: might be of interest Sinningia speciosa (Gloxinia) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:30:21 -0400 Petrocosmea is still a recognized genus, with many new plants coming from Vietnam and South China and that general region in recent years. I'm growing several species, but they have not bloomed for me yet. :-/ My P. rossettifolia is quite large now. When I do see them in bloom at the shows, they are so impressive! Dennis in Cincinnati On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Peter Taggart wrote: > Not exactly bulbous but I too have about 8 species of Pterocosmia - Is the > Genus currently recognised? P Kirkii has more or less faded out but was very > lovely for some years. From joshuakyleyoung@gmail.com Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: Joshua Young Subject: Nerine 'Zeal Giant' Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 16:04:36 -0400 Uli, I'd love to see photos!! I'm not sure if the seed would be true honestly but apomixis does add some confusion in the mix and it would be very interesting to hear the ideas of others! Josh -- http://www.fortheloveofbulbs.blogspot.com/ From ds429@comcast.net Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: <000001cc7a34$63b47280$2b1d5780$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 287 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 17:04:30 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 287" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/ share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact me for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Arnold Trachtenberg: 1. Tubers of Helicodiceros muscivorus  "Dead Horse Arum" 2. Bulbs of a Lachenalia aloides var quadricolor From Monica Swartz: (BULBS) 3. Albuca sp. N. Calitzdorp ex bx 209 4. Albuca aff. namaquensis 5. Albuca clanwilliamgloriae ex bx 210 6. Albuca maxima ex bx 219 7. Albuca sp. Uniondale ex bx 209 From Mary Sue Ittner: (BULBS/CORMS) All winter growing: 8. Allium amethystinum 9. Babiana sp. - 20+ years old descendents from mixed Babiana seed. I've never tried to key it out as I suspect it's a hybrid. Reliable bloomer planted in the ground and in containers in Northern California. There could be some corms that look different as this pot was once mixed, but when I replanted I can't tell which is which and lately most of them seem to be the same color. Last time I sent these to the BX, they ended up in the sale later in the year. Hopefully someone will want them this time as now is the time to plant them in the Northern hemisphere. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Babiana/Babiana_sp_2011_msi. jpg 10. Babiana secunda cormlets 11. Brodiaea pallida cormlets 12. Brunsvigia orientalis 13. Calochortus uniflorus 14. Dichelostemma volubile cormlets 15. Freesia fucata cormlets 16. Freesia sparmannii cormlets 17. Ipheion uniflorum, syn. Tristagma uniflorum - (white) I'm not sure what we are calling this one these days 18. Narcissus bulbocodium var. tenufolius 19. Narcissus cantabricus 20. Oxalis obtusa Peach From Mark Mazer: (BULBS/CORMS): 21. Ferraria crispa, mixed forms, OP 22. Sparaxis tricolor 23. Lachenalia contaminata 24. Sparaxis grandiflora ssp. grandiflora 25. Lachenalia mathewsii 26. Ixia rapunculoides, ex Kirstenbosch 27. Gladiolus carmineus, few small 28. Lapeirousia oreogena, few 29. Lachenalia juncifolia Thank you, Arnold, Monica, Mary Sue, and Mark !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: <1316814189.75256.YahooMailClassic@web86307.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Nerine 'Zeal Giant' Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 22:43:09 +0100 (BST) " I self pollinated the flowers today, does anybody know if these hybrids come true from seed? Nerine can be apomictic (setting seed without pollination which is genetically identical to the seed parent) but I do not know if this also applies to complex hybrids. " I have never had seed on my Nerine Zeal Giant. N. bowdenii just 3 metres away forms copius seed without any help on my part. I remember seeing many Zeal Giant at RHS Rosemoor a few years back. Do they have any seed, anyone? Mine came from Avon bulbs I think.   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 From petersirises@gmail.com Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: petrocosmea Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 22:59:10 +0100 I have rossetifolia, easy from leaf cuttings. It is in bud now. P minor, aff idioides and sericea are flowering just now http://www.flickr.com/photos/66380714@N06/6175860153/in/photostream Peter (UK) On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Dennis Kramb wrote: > Petrocosmea is still a recognized genus, with many new plants coming > from Vietnam and South China and that general region in recent years. > I'm growing several species, but they have not bloomed for me yet. > :-/ My P. rossettifolia is quite large now. > From petersirises@gmail.com Fri, 23 Sep 2011 18:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Viral variagation Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 23:16:33 +0100 This plant of Agapanthus inapertus is in a garden where I work. It looked a little virused last year. I think it is very virused now. I would welcome any other opinions... http://www.flickr.com/photos/66380714@N06/6175864057/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/66380714@N06/6176394212/in/photostream/ Peter (UK) From santoury@aol.com Fri, 23 Sep 2011 21:00:11 -0700 Message-Id: <8CE4876994908AF-2310-C84D2@webmail-d155.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: petrocosmea Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 22:12:52 -0400 (EDT) I love these - never knew about them before - have to find one! From ds429@comcast.net Sat, 24 Sep 2011 06:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <1816295904.1916073.1316864825907.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: Pacific BX 287 CLOSED Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:47:05 +0000 (UTC) Packages should go out within the week. Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From jshields@indy.net Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:00:07 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20110924095510.02b13b48@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: What's blooming this week -20 September Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 10:02:03 -0400 I've posted some pictures of the Haemanthus that are in bloom this week: Haemanthus coccineus, H. crispus, and H. lanceifolius, all at http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Blogs/Garden/index.html currently (permanent URL: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Blogs/Garden/201109.html#e3 ) Also blooming are one Nerine bowdenii wellsii, Nerine platypetala, and still hanging on N. filifolia. Nerine cf. angulata "Den's Dwarf" are starting to bloom as well. The sole Cyclamen survivors in my greenhouse, Cyclamen graecum, are blooming now. Jim S. ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From dkramb@badbear.com Sun, 25 Sep 2011 18:00:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Spiranthes cernua Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 18:18:10 -0400 Spiranthes cernua is in bud and showing color. It's my first time to grow this since I lost it about 5 yrs ago. I'm really excited to see my old friend again. By the way, remember all that chat about conservation, endangered species, and the threat of losing biological diversity? Well, I am annoyed beyond words that the ONLY selection of Spiranthes cernua available in the market hails from the area of Bear, Delaware. It's not even an endangered species, but nobody offers any other selection than Chadds Ford. Just sayin...... Also, I'd love to get some Spiranthes chinensis if anyone in N. America knows of a source? Dennis in Cincinnati From dkramb@badbear.com Sun, 25 Sep 2011 21:00:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Ipomoea pandurata Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 22:54:39 -0400 A researcher who is not affiliated with PBS read some of my posts in the archives about Ipomoea pandurata. He contacted me to ask about my success growing them from seed. Anyway, to make a long story short, I went back to one of the wild populations near my house to harvest some seeds for him. When I harvested seed there before, it was always much later in the year than September (like mid-winter). And much of the seed was parasitized (?) by a beetle (Nicrophorus?) egg that hatched when brought into prolonged warmth. That prevented me from donating seeds to the BX. I didn't want to spread beetles everywhere. Flash forward to today... as I'm picking the seeds out of the pods, I'm finding lots of them in tact, without evidence of beetle holes. (In fact, I haven't found any evidence of beetle holes whatsoever.) So I'm wondering.... - is it too early in the season for the beetles to have laid eggs yet? - am I lucky and this is an "off" year for the beetles? - should I send some seed in to the BX ? Even if eggs are present, it's so warm that I am confident they can go through the BX without "hatching". They go through winter dormant and hatch in the spring. So it hasn't been cold enough yet. So.... I'd like feedback from the PBSers on this peculiar situation. Dennis in Cincinnati From dkramb@badbear.com Sun, 25 Sep 2011 21:00:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Ipomoea pandurata Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 23:01:58 -0400 Bah. I forgot to explain something else, that's very important: How I successfully germinated Ipomoea pandurata! When I picked seeds in mid-winter the first time, I didn't know about the beetles. None of the seeds I planted germinated. When I picked seeds in mid-winter the next time, I knew about the beetles, and kept the seeds frozen in my freezer. Around March, I think, I unfroze some of them... filed a portion of the hard seed coat off... and then soaked them in warm water over night. The seeds swelled up, and I planted them in pots. They germinated readily! And so... I think the trick with this technique was that the beetles never had enough time to hatch and damage the seed embryo. No, I didn't successfully raise the plants to maturity but I think that was due to starting them indoors too soon... having inadequate lighting... and so on. In future, I'll direct sow them outside in April or May. If other PBSers followed a similar technique, it would likewise prevent the eggs from hatching. So..... anyway. Just more info to digest & consider. I'm eager to hear feedback. From dkramb@badbear.com Sun, 25 Sep 2011 21:00:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Ipomoea pandurata Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 23:05:30 -0400 Ummm.... for photographic reference, please see my awesome pics on the wiki from years ago. :-) http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Ipomoea So... yah, I'm not finding holes like that. I'll keep shucking seeds though. Maybe I'll find something. From maxwithers@gmail.com Sun, 25 Sep 2011 21:00:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: Max Withers Subject: Root growth initiation Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 20:35:57 -0700 Saturday I finally went through 32 4" pots of bulbs that I had (mostly) started from seed in 2007 or 2008. The pots stay in the garage all summer to keep from baking too much. The garage has one window, so it is not completely dark. I was interested to learn which had initiated root growth, and which had run out of room at the bottom of their pots. Of the South African species (Romulea monadelpha, sabulosa, unifolia; Babiana ringens, villosa; Freesia laxa, refracta; Geissorhiza radians, splendidissima; Lachenalia orchidoides) none had initiated growth, and only the Freesias had pulled themselves to the bottom of their pots. The Lachenalia looked like they might just be starting shoots, but not roots. (L. aloides v. quadricolor in another pot that stayed out all summer is already shooting up, but that is my earliest blooming Lachenalia). California: Allium amplectens and Triteleia hyacinthina had started root growth, and the Triteleia was down at the bottom of its pot. 7 Calochortus spp. were all at the bottom of their pots, and none had initiated growth -- except Calochortus dunnii, which had started growing, and was only about halfway down. (Most of my Calochortus tags were lost, so I'm not sure what I have left, except dunnii, catalinae, kennedyi, and umbellatus). Neither Fritillaria eastwoodiae nor recurva had started growth yet. The surviving bulbs were towards the middle of their pots. I was rewarded today for my very belated labor by our first rain showers of the season -- only 3 months after last year's final precipitation. Max Withers Oakland CA From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon, 26 Sep 2011 06:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Root growth initiation Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 12:17:13 +0000 Max, of the many genera and species of SA in culrivation here, Lachenalias, Tritonias and Oxalises produce new roots spontaneously without being watered already in Februry (say August in your Hemisphere). All other winter growers remain dormant until later. From kjblack@pacbell.net Mon, 26 Sep 2011 09:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: <1317050650.2068.YahooMailClassic@web80406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: what's blooming now - week of Sept 25, 2011 Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 08:24:10 -0700 (PDT) One of my own 6-year old Amarygia crosses (Amaryllis belladonna X Brunsvigia josephinae) is producing its first bloom.   The scape seemed excruciatingly slow to develop and open.   The individual florets are narrow, like its pollen parent, Brunsvigia josephinae, but larger and longer, approx 3".  The pedicels, unfortunately, are shorter, like its seed parent.   I was hoping for the long pedicels, large individual florets and a huge umbel like B. josephinae ... but am happy with 1.5 out of 3!  There are a total of 17 florets ... and I am hopeful this will increase in future years.   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6185123531/in/photostream   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6185646862/in/photostream   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6185621010/in/photostream   Ken Blackford San Diego From klazina1@gmail.com Mon, 26 Sep 2011 18:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <4E8103AE.8000807@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: Habranthus seed from the BX Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 11:58:54 +1300 Was informed by MAF that evidently the seed I ordered was not allowed, but was given several options. First of all I decided it was no good getting all hot under the collar about it. So I contacted EPA which is the department responsible for deciding what is and what is not allowed. And joy of joys, after several helpful emails, the woman found one of them was already in New Zealand so will be added to the Biosecurity Index. She found that in one of the gardening books, so went to some trouble to find it for me. I now have ordered 6 books of New Zealand bulbs from the library and will then order more to see what there is in them as far as Habranthus and Zephyranthes are concerned. It made my day. Ina Auckland New Zealand From dkramb@badbear.com Mon, 26 Sep 2011 21:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Ipomoea pandurata Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 21:43:56 -0400 Just to clarify... on that Ipomoea wiki page, the only pics from me are I. pandurata. I don't know nothing about those other Ipomoeas. Sorry! :-) From Billthebulbbaron@aol.com Mon, 26 Sep 2011 21:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <4dd85.4be8dfba.3bb28a14@aol.com> From: Billthebulbbaron@aol.com Subject: Nerine sarniensis question regarding wild habitat... Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 22:08:21 -0400 (EDT) Some have deep green glossy leaves, others are glaucous--I would guess these come from different habitats? Can anyone who has seen them in the wild please elaborate? Best wishes, Bill the Bulb Baron (William R.P. Welch) click here for: Availability List full website: www.BilltheBulbBaron.com From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Tue, 27 Sep 2011 03:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: Habranthus seed from the BX Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 02:53:39 -0700 Well thats worth a pat on the back. Nice work Ina !!! It fascinates me how little knowledge most quarantine officers have about plants in general. I recently had a bulb stopped from England. The officer asked me is it a bulb or a seed but it was half the size of a football, so it seemed pretty obvious to me. Its incredible that the nice lady helped you so much. I think I'll get some more bulb books too :-) Steven SE Queensland Australia On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Ina Crossley wrote: > Was informed by MAF that evidently the seed I ordered was not allowed, > From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Tue, 27 Sep 2011 09:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <3aHYwxCCDdgOFw1g@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: Habranthus seed from the BX Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 14:33:54 +0100 In message , steven hart writes >recently had a bulb stopped from England. The officer asked me is it a bulb >or a seed but it was half the size of a football, so it seemed pretty >obvious to me. coconuts (are seeds - http://www.thaifoodandtravel.com/features/coconutis.html) -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton-Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK From johannes-ulrich-urban@t-online.de Tue, 27 Sep 2011 18:00:10 -0700 Message-Id: <1R8gnU-1fQrZQ0@fwd06.t-online.de> From: "Johannes-Ulrich Urban" Subject: desert merremia Date: 27 Sep 2011 23:09 GMT Dear All, A few years ago, I remember a contribution mentioning a Merremia species (yellow tuberous morning glory but I do not remember the name) native to the south western US rambling over the gates of one of those botanical gardens in the South West and, and that is the point, scattering its seeds all over on the pavement. Does that ring a bell with someone? Would someone be willing to help me in getting a starting portion of seed of that Merremia? Please contact me privately for details of payment etc. Or could this go through the BX? Looking forward to hear from you, greetings from a mild lat summer in Germany Uli From desertdenial@hotmail.com Tue, 27 Sep 2011 18:00:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: "desertdenial@hotmail.com" Subject: desert merremia Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:20:42 -0700 Mine is a blooming right now and if it sets seed before it freezes I'd be happy to send you some Marie Tolleson, Az Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless -----Original message----- From: Johannes-Ulrich Urban To: Pacifib Bulb Society messages Sent: Tue, Sep 27, 2011 23:09:00 GMT+00:00 Subject: [pbs] desert merremia Dear All, A few years ago, I remember a contribution mentioning a Merremia species (yellow tuberous morning glory but I do not remember the name) native to the south western US rambling over the gates of one of those botanical gardens in the South West and, and that is the point, scattering its seeds all over on the pavement. Does that ring a bell with someone? Would someone be willing to help me in getting a starting portion of seed of that Merremia? Please contact me privately for details of payment etc. Or could this go through the BX? Looking forward to hear from you, greetings from a mild lat summer in Germany Uli From pslate22@yahoo.com Tue, 27 Sep 2011 18:00:10 -0700 Message-Id: <1317166391.83774.YahooMailNeo@web111903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> From: Pamela Slate Subject: Merremia sp. Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Dear Uli, That would be Merremia aurea, native to southern Baja, California.  Commonly known here as Yuca (not a misspelling!) Vine, it freezes back in winter and regrows in spring, blooming throughout the summer.    Good luck growing it!   Best, Pamela Pamela Slate P.O. Box 5316 Carefree AZ 85377 From antigre10@yahoo.gr Wed, 28 Sep 2011 00:00:10 -0700 Message-Id: <1317193141.68921.YahooMailNeo@web29311.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: Antigoni Rentzeperis Subject: What's blooming this week 28 September Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 07:59:01 +0100 (BST) Hello all,   Griffinia liboniana, for the first time blooming for me.   http://s1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb341/anti25/?action=view¤t=DSCN8687.jpg   http://s1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb341/anti25/?action=view¤t=DSCN8719.jpg   http://s1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb341/anti25/?action=view¤t=DSCN8720.jpg   Tricyrtis Small Wonder, is blooming here since the begining of August.   http://s1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb341/anti25/?action=view¤t=DSCN8750.jpg   http://s1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb341/anti25/?action=view¤t=DSCN8751.jpg   Greetings from Greece. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Wed, 28 Sep 2011 09:00:13 -0700 Message-Id: <410-220119328151253343@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: First Oxalis in the Albemarle... Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 11:12:53 -0400 this fall is labeled Oxalis zeekoevleyensis. O.lividia will bloom tomorrow. This flat was watered a month ago when the hurricane took the greenhouse film. Of the flats watered two weeks ago, O.gracilis and O.hirta 'Goethenburg' should be first. MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER Hertford, North Carolina USA markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net From ds429@comcast.net Wed, 28 Sep 2011 15:00:10 -0700 Message-Id: <000001cc7e11$7e8bb290$7ba317b0$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 288 Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 15:04:44 -0400 Dear All, The following bulbs have been donated to the Pacific Bulb Society BX by Jim Waddick. They are available to members of the Pacific Bulb Society. Because they are of good size, extra postage will be necessary and we cannot send them out of the USA. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 288" in the subject line. State clearly which variety of bulb you would like, what size, and how many you wish to receive. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and priority-mail postage. Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact me for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Jim Waddick: Crinum x powellii is among the hardiest of all Crinum. Although considered a tropical bulb and suited to the south, these have grown with minimal or no protection in the Kansas City metro area for upwards of 20 years. The rose-pink flowers are narrow petaled and do not open widely. To balance this, there is an enormous amount of very tropical foliage with leaves forming a crown upwards of 6 to 7 feet in diameter and numerous flower stalks with time. Read Alani Davis' critique at http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybridsPinkThree#p owelliiRoseum 1. Medium bulbs (3 inch diameter): $7.50 per share + postage 2. Large bulbs (~5 inch diameter): $10.00 per share + postage Crinum x powellii 'Album' is a totally different story. An excellent bulb producing pure white elegant flowers in profusion. As hardy as typical, but surely the best pure white flowered Crinum for northern gardens. Recommended http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumHybridsWhiteTwo#po welliiAlbum 3. Small bulbs (1 - 2 inch diameter): $7.50 per share + postage 4. Medium bulbs (3 inch diameter): $9.00 per share + postage 5. Large bulbs (~5 inch diameter): $12.00 per share + postage Thank you, Jim !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From piabinha@yahoo.com Wed, 28 Sep 2011 21:00:12 -0700 Message-Id: <32F0DB50-04BE-4440-A4D4-DCB06878A985@yahoo.com> From: Pia Subject: OT: Impatiens Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 23:29:26 -0400 i was wondering if anyone could identify a plant i saw at the brooklyn botanic garden recently. it's a pale red flowered Impatiens, with rather thick stems, and the leaves are very distinctive: they are narrow and serrated at the edges, and have a dusting of silver on them. the seedpods are hairy, which made me think they might be himalayan in origin? > > thanks. > > ======== > tsuh yang From kjblack@pacbell.net Thu, 29 Sep 2011 03:00:13 -0700 Message-Id: <1317288596.26523.YahooMailClassic@web80407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: whats blooming week of 9/25/2011 ... Amarygia progress Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 02:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Just thought I would post progress on this Amarygia as its bloom progresses:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6192982409/in/photostream   Also ... I noticed yesterday the first of the Sternbergia lutea popped up!  This pic is from 2008, but they look pretty much the same this year:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/2891625046/   Ken Blackford San Diego   From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu, 29 Sep 2011 06:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Tulips on Troost Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 07:48:59 -0500 Dear Friends, I've known about this local bulb program for a couple of years. I never met the one-man organizer who started this project, but I just found out he joined the PBS Family recently. You can read back ground about this unique bulb project here: http://www.pitch.com/plog/archives/2011/09/28/tulips-on-troost-needs-tulips Troost Ave is a long North-South street in the heart of a racially diverse part of the urban core of Kansas City. This effort has brought all kinds of people and funds together to get involved and beautify the city through tulips, daffodils and other long lived hardy bulbs. It sure sounds like a worthy cause and one worth duplicating in cities around the world. If you care to donate take a look at this video http://www.southtown.org/stc/tulips-troost-video Since this is fall bulb planting season, I thought I'd share a local Kansas City effort. Think Tulips. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From piabinha@yahoo.com Thu, 29 Sep 2011 15:00:12 -0700 Message-Id: <1317326615.32683.YahooMailClassic@web39306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: piaba Subject: OT: Impatiens Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 13:03:35 -0700 (PDT) i think a photo might be of use; http://www.flickr.com/photos/58391037@N04/6196128164/ thank you. ========= tsuh yang --- On Wed, 9/28/11, Pia wrote: > i was wondering if anyone could > identify a plant i saw at the brooklyn botanic garden > recently.  it's a pale red flowered Impatiens, with > rather thick stems, and the leaves are very distinctive: > they are narrow and serrated at the edges, and have a > dusting of silver on them.  the seedpods are hairy, > which made me think they might be himalayan in origin? From xerantheum@gmail.com Thu, 29 Sep 2011 15:00:12 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: OT: Impatiens Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 13:08:03 -0700 Hi, That looks like the commonly grown species, Impatiens balsamina. It's an annual and reseeds readily. There are a large number of color forms and hybrids. It can even tolerate the crazy summer heat in the South - in full sun! Nhu On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:03 PM, piaba wrote: > i think a photo might be of use; > http://www.flickr.com/photos/58391037@N04/6196128164/ > ========= > tsuh yang > From ds429@comcast.net Thu, 29 Sep 2011 15:00:12 -0700 Message-Id: <000001cc7ee4$7618ecd0$624ac670$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 289 Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 16:14:57 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 289" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/ share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer to defray our costs for packing and first-class, priority-mail, or international postage. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact me for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Pamela Harlow: SEED: 1. Brodiaea coronaria ex NNS (Ron Ratko) 02-68: seed from about 40 individuals, all grown from Ron’s wild-collected seed with no chance of pollination from other plants – 2010 seed 02-68 Brodiaea coronaria  Modoc Plateau, Modoc Co., 4750’The flowers in this population are slightly smaller with darker blue-purple lobes, paler tubes and distinct pale cream bases.  The flowers are held on erect pedicels creating a narrow candelabra.  Common throughout the undulating flats of rocky clay derived from basalt.  Large colonies are prevalent around the numerous vernal, both natural and manmade, ponds that dot the landscape.  Sierra juniper and sagebrush flats.  The hardiest member of the genus, hardy to Zone 5. 2. Cyclamen cilicium 3. Cyclamen cilicium, fragrant (leaf mostly green) 4. Cyclamen confusum (?) – grown from Cyclamen Society seed labeled “Cyclamen confusum ex Polyrrhinia” – I can’t find any information on this name or how to classify this seed – looks more or less like pink hederifolium 5. Cyclamen coum, dark pink, various leaf color types 6. Cyclamen coum, silver leaf, mixed bloom colors 7. Cyclamen coum, silver leaf, pink flowers 8. Cyclamen coum, fancy leaf, pink flowers (some of the offspring will have plain green leaves, some silver, some with strong pattern) 9. Cyclamen cyprium ‘E.S.’, 2010 seed 10. Cyclamen hederifolium, white – I would call it albiflorum except some have trace of pink inside the flower mouth 11. Cyclamen hederifolium, silver leaf, white bloom as above 12. Cyclamen hederifolium, silver leaf, pink bloom 13. Cyclamen hederifolium , various arrowhead leaf shapes, pink bloom 14. Cyclamen hederifolium, various arrowhead leaf shapes, white bloom as above 15. Cyclamen hederifolium, various leaves, fragrant, pink bloom 16. Cyclamen mirabile 17. Cyclamen pseudibericum 18. Cyclamen purpurascens, 2010 seed 19. Cyclamen purpurascens, 2009 seed 20. Dichelostemma capitatum, ex NNS 03-208 note: these didn’t bloom until this year so the 2010 Brodiaea could not be contaminated by them 21. Fritillaria affinis 22. Fritillaria camschatensis ex Archibald 4.390.110 note: parent plants exhibit quite varied bloom color 23. Libertia caerulescens – probably from the Archibalds 24. Trillium rivale ex NNS 04-460 25. Trillium rivale ex NNS 04-461 From Arnold Trachtenberg: 26. Seed of Tulipa ferganica http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TulipaSpeciesTwo#ferganica From Jay Yourch: 27. Seed of Aesculus parviflora Aesculus parviflora is not a bulb, it's a large shrub native to the southeastern United States with attractive flowers and foliage, and often striking yellow autumn color.  It's much more cold hardy (USDA Zone 5, possibly 4) than its native range would suggest.  It grows from large seeds, which must be sown immediately otherwise they dry out and aren't viable.  I've successfully grown the plant from seed in two ways, placing fresh seeds under the leaf litter along the edge of a woodland where I want them to grow, and pressing them into moist potting soil in gallon containers and keeping those containers in my garage until spring.  Keeping them in the cool, but frost free, garage helps in two ways, it keeps the squirrels from finding the ungerminated seeds and eating them, and if some of the seeds germinate early the young plants don't freeze.  They're not houseplants, germinating and growing them at room temperature over the winter is not recommended.  Well cared for plants often flower when just a few years old. Jay's blog entry: http://stevesplantsandrants.blogspot.com/2007/06/bottlebrush-buckeye.html University of Connecticut Plant Database:  http://www.hort.uconn.edu/plants/a/aespar/aespar1.html From Antigoni Rentzeperi: 28 Seed of Habranthus tubispathus From Jim Waddick: 29. Seed of Canna flaccida from northern Carolina population 30. Small tubers of Dioscorea batatas, variegated From Mary Gastil-Buhl: (SEED) 31. Dierama sp., white, open pollinated with pink nearby, full sun, tolerates light frost 32. Veltheimia bracteata, cannot take frost 33. Cypella sp, probably coelestis, ex TerraSol nursery From Angelo Porcelli: (SEED) 34. Pancratium canariensis 35. Narcissus tazetta ssp bertolonii 36. Romulea ligustica 37. Iris sintensii ssp collina 38. Habranthus correntinus 39. Habranthus martinezii 40. Romulea bulbocodium 41. Asphodelus liburnica 42. Gladiolus communis From Kipp McMichael: 43. Seed of Lilium sp? I did not see the open flower. From dried petals on some plants the color was yellow/orange. This could mean L. pardalinum, or L. kelleyanum. The common name for this lily is "Leopard Lily." Thank you, Pamela, Arnold, Jay, Antigoni, Jim, Mary, Angelo, and Kipp !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From joshuakyleyoung@gmail.com Thu, 29 Sep 2011 15:00:12 -0700 Message-Id: From: Joshua Young Subject: Habranthus correntinus - Alberto, Enlighten Us Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 16:52:26 -0400 Alberto Porcelli & Alberto Castillo, Can you two enlighten us on Habranthus correntinus, there isn't much information available on this species other than it's new. Josh -- http://www.fortheloveofbulbs.blogspot.com/ From leo@possi.org Thu, 29 Sep 2011 18:00:07 -0700 Message-Id: <883a9162437f599c0c38c3f5fcb26e2e.squirrel@www.possi.org> From: "Leo A. Martin" Subject: desert merremia Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 17:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Uli schreibt > A few years ago, I remember a contribution mentioning a Merremia species > (yellow tuberous morning glory but I do not remember the name) native to > the south western US rambling over the gates of one of those botanical > gardens in the South West and, and that is the point, scattering its seeds > all over on the pavement. Does that ring a bell with someone? Would > someone be willing to help me in getting a starting portion of seed of > that Merremia? Please contact me privately for details of payment etc. Or > could this go through the BX? Good memory; that was my post about Merremia aurea, native to Baja California and northwestern continental Mexico, and the gate outside Webster Auditorium at the Desert Botanical Garden, Phoenix. I started some plants this summer but they are too small to bloom yet. I plan to send seed to the BX regularly once they do. Those of you in the southwest growing this should save seeds and send them to Dell. This is a really rewarding plant that grows well in a container. By coincidence I just looked for it on the Wiki and it's not there. I can write something about it for the Wiki but don't have any photos. The seeds are about the size of a small garbanzo (chickpea) so will need some protection during shipping. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From xerics@cox.net Thu, 29 Sep 2011 18:00:07 -0700 Message-Id: <007d01cc7f0a$63eb7e80$2bc27b80$@net> From: "Richard" Subject: desert merremia Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 17:46:28 -0700 I found some of these seeds a couple of years ago and I have only two plants left after starting some 10 or so. They are very slow for me, In gallon containers, and the growing tip seems to die over the winter, condemning the plant to zombiehood. How do you grow them? Richard Vista, CA A -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Leo A. Martin Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 5:36 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] desert merremia Uli schreibt > A few years ago, I remember a contribution mentioning a Merremia species > (yellow tuberous morning glory but I do not remember the name) native to > the south western US rambling over the gates of one of those botanical > gardens in the South West and, and that is the point, scattering its seeds > all over on the pavement. Does that ring a bell with someone? Would > someone be willing to help me in getting a starting portion of seed of > that Merremia? Please contact me privately for details of payment etc. Or > could this go through the BX? Good memory; that was my post about Merremia aurea, native to Baja California and northwestern continental Mexico, and the gate outside Webster Auditorium at the Desert Botanical Garden, Phoenix. I started some plants this summer but they are too small to bloom yet. I plan to send seed to the BX regularly once they do. Those of you in the southwest growing this should save seeds and send them to Dell. This is a really rewarding plant that grows well in a container. By coincidence I just looked for it on the Wiki and it's not there. I can write something about it for the Wiki but don't have any photos. The seeds are about the size of a small garbanzo (chickpea) so will need some protection during shipping. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA From richrd@nas.com Thu, 29 Sep 2011 18:00:07 -0700 Message-Id: <884D4C0B-4EBC-4193-B084-41F00D02482E@nas.com> From: Richard Haard Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 289 Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 17:55:27 -0700 > Dell I am interested to receive the following Richard Haard 3276 y road Bellingham wa., 98226 > >> From Pamela Harlow: > SEED: > > 1. Brodiaea coronaria ex NNS (Ron Ratko) 02-68: seed from about 40 > individuals, all grown from Ron’s wild-collected seed with no chance of > pollination from other plants – 2010 seed 02-68 Brodiaea coronaria Modoc > Plateau, Modoc Co., 4750’The flowers in this population are slightly smaller > with darker blue-purple lobes, paler tubes and distinct pale cream bases. > The flowers are held on erect pedicels creating a narrow candelabra. Common > throughout the undulating flats of rocky clay derived from basalt. Large > colonies are prevalent around the numerous vernal, both natural and manmade, > ponds that dot the landscape. Sierra juniper and sagebrush flats. The > hardiest member of the genus, hardy to Zone 5. > > 20. Dichelostemma capitatum, ex NNS 03-208 note: these didn’t bloom until > this year so the 2010 Brodiaea could not be contaminated by them > 21. Fritillaria affinis > 22. Fritillaria camschatensis ex Archibald 4.390.110 note: parent plants > exhibit quite varied bloom color > > 24. Trillium rivale ex NNS 04-460 > 25. Trillium rivale ex NNS 04-461 > >> From Arnold Trachtenberg: > >> > > 27. Seed of Aesculus parviflora Aesculus parviflora is not a bulb, it's > a large shrub native to the southeastern United States with attractive > flowers and foliage, and often striking yellow autumn color. It's much more > cold hardy (USDA Zone 5, possibly 4) than its native range would suggest. > It grows from large seeds, which must be sown immediately otherwise they > dry out and aren't viable. I've successfully grown the plant from seed in > two ways, placing fresh seeds under the leaf litter along the edge of a > woodland where I want them to grow, and pressing them into moist potting > soil in gallon containers and keeping those containers in my garage until > spring. Keeping them in the cool, but frost free, garage helps in two ways, > it keeps the squirrels from finding the ungerminated seeds and eating them, > and if some of the seeds germinate early the young plants don't freeze. > They're not houseplants, germinating and growing them at room temperature > over the winter is not recommended. Well cared for plants often flower when > just a few years old. > > >> > > 43. Seed of Lilium sp? I did not see the open flower. From dried petals > on some plants the color was yellow/orange. This could mean L. pardalinum, > or L. kelleyanum. The common name for this lily is "Leopard Lily." > From michaelcmace@gmail.com Fri, 30 Sep 2011 00:00:12 -0700 Message-Id: <010101cc7f2c$37c83ce0$a758b6a0$@com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Amarygia progress Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 21:48:36 -0700 Ken, I'm having a lot of fun watching your Amarygias develop. Thanks for sharing the photos. I was interested by the photo you posted of one of the siblings to that flower, which looks a lot like a typical Amaryllis hybrid: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6194041160/in/photostream/ Do you remember if this came from one of the tiny seeds that you sometimes get from Amarygia crosses, or a larger seed? I'm wondering if the seed size/color corresponds to the type of flower you get. I got flowers this fall from some hybrids of B. josephinae and a Les Hannibal Amaryllis. They looked a lot like the typical Hannibal Amaryllis, so I thought the seedlings must have been apomictic or an accidental cross from some Amaryllis pollen that blew in. But seeing your sibling photo, I'm starting to wonder if I did get a real cross that just doesn't express a lot of josephinae characteristics. In particular, there's one plant that has flowers with strangely twisted tepals. You can see it here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/83542459@N00/6197166904/in/photostream Or maybe it's just a Hannibal hybrid with twisted tepals. I'd appreciate comments from more knowledgeable growers than me. Mike San Jose, CA From michaelcmace@gmail.com Fri, 30 Sep 2011 00:00:12 -0700 Message-Id: <010501cc7f2d$ac2036f0$0460a4d0$@com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: What's blooming week of Sep. 26 Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 21:59:01 -0700 Colchicum agrippinum is just past its peak. I've had it in a pot for many years, and as long as I divide it every couple of years, it blooms very reliably in fall. Its flowers are purple-pink from a distance, but up close they're covered in a distinctive faint checkmark pattern. It's very interesting. But the star of the moment is Brunsvigia marginata. Picture a basketball painted in the most eye-popping shade of scarlet you've ever seen. When the first European plant explorers saw this thing in South Africa, they must have been amazed. I would love to see it in the wild sometime. This flower is self-sterile, so if anyone else has one in bloom and wants to share pollen, let me know. And by the way, I promised pollen to a couple of people. I harvested that today. Mike San Jose, CA From Talkingpoints@PlantSoup.Com Sun, 02 Oct 2011 21:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <366BC603-A047-4432-831E-1C6AB08673E8@PlantSoup.Com> From: Nan Sterman Subject: Travel with me to Floriade, 2012 Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 00:09:59 -0700 Hi All You are invited to meet me in Amsterdam on May 4, 2012 for the garden tour of a lifetime. We'll visit the horticultural hotspots of Holland and Belgium, including two full days at the Floriade 2012 World Horiticultural Expo. What's Floriade? Glad you asked! Floriade is the International World's Fair for the horticultural world. It is the biggest international flower and garden show. A multitude of countries participate, each bringing their horticultural Best of Show. And, Floriade is held only once every ten years. Meg McComb is a photographer who traveled to Floraide in 2002, can't wait to go again. She reserved her spot on this tour right away. Meg wrote to me about her last trip: I believe the whole country (Holland) is a breathing garden quilt. It really does not matter where we go, public or private----it will be glorious. I came home in '02 with 35, 36 exposure rolls of film, (remember digital was still in it's brief youth). This time I'm going with two cameras an three lenses and at least 4-8 gig cards. I bet I spend the bus ride back to the hotel deleting like a mad woman anyway! Meg won't be disappointed, and neither will you. I've carefully customized the itinerary for garden lovers, garden writers, garden designers, horticulturists, florists -- people like all of us. The tour kicks off on the afternoon we arrive with a walking tour of urban gardens in Amsterdam. Over the course of our ten days, we'll also visit other private gardens, public gardens, the world's largest flower auction, a nursery, a bulb farm and much much more. And I've made sure that we get plenty of time in each location. None of that "Our bus will be boarding in 20 minutes" stuff on this trip! Here's a link to the itinerary Here's a link to the reservation form Please return the reservation form by October 10th to be sure you have a spot on the bus (next to Meg if you'd like).... If the links fail, everything is posted on my home page, www.PlantSoup.com Questions? Lemme know! Nan PS If you know other people who would be interested in joining us, please forward this email to them. ***************************************** Nan Sterman, Plant Soup, Inc TM Garden Journalist • Speaker Gardening Coach • Garden Designer • Horticulture Consultant Phone 760 634-2902 Mail PO Box 231034, Encinitas, CA 92023 Web www.PlantSoup.com Blog http://plantsoup.com/blog/ Video http://www.plantsoup.com/tv-radio.php Author California Gardener's Guide vol II and Waterwise Plants for the Southwest Articles in print San Diego Union Tribune, Los Angeles Times, Sunset Magazine, Organic Gardening, and more…. Board Member, Garden Writers Association, Region VI Founding member, Great Garden Speakers Founding Board Member, Association of Professional Landscape Designers (APLD), San Diego District Founding Chair Encinitas Garden Festival & Tour From ds429@comcast.net Fri, 30 Sep 2011 06:00:11 -0700 Message-Id: <1660895498.3524.1317383337517.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 289 Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 11:48:57 +0000 (UTC) I have received your order.   Best wishes, Dell   Dell Sherk, PBS BX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Haard" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 8:55:27 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society BX 289 > Dell I am interested to receive the following Richard Haard 3276 y road Bellingham wa., 98226 > >> From Pamela Harlow: > SEED: > > 1. Brodiaea coronaria ex NNS (Ron Ratko) 02-68:  seed from about 40 > individuals, all grown from Ron’s wild-collected seed with no chance of > pollination from other plants – 2010 seed 02-68 Brodiaea coronaria  Modoc > Plateau, Modoc Co., 4750’The flowers in this population are slightly smaller > with darker blue-purple lobes, paler tubes and distinct pale cream bases. > The flowers are held on erect pedicels creating a narrow candelabra.  Common > throughout the undulating flats of rocky clay derived from basalt.  Large > colonies are prevalent around the numerous vernal, both natural and manmade, > ponds that dot the landscape.  Sierra juniper and sagebrush flats.  The > hardiest member of the genus, hardy to Zone 5. > > 20. Dichelostemma capitatum, ex NNS 03-208 note:  these didn’t bloom until > this year so the 2010 Brodiaea could not be contaminated by them > 21. Fritillaria affinis > 22. Fritillaria camschatensis ex Archibald 4.390.110 note:  parent plants > exhibit quite varied bloom color > > 24. Trillium rivale ex NNS 04-460 > 25. Trillium rivale ex NNS 04-461 > >> From Arnold Trachtenberg: > >> > > 27. Seed of Aesculus parviflora      Aesculus parviflora is not a bulb, it's > a large shrub native to the southeastern United States with attractive > flowers and foliage, and often striking yellow autumn color.  It's much more > cold hardy (USDA Zone 5, possibly 4) than its native range would suggest. >  It grows from large seeds, which must be sown immediately otherwise they > dry out and aren't viable.  I've successfully grown the plant from seed in > two ways, placing fresh seeds under the leaf litter along the edge of a > woodland where I want them to grow, and pressing them into moist potting > soil in gallon containers and keeping those containers in my garage until > spring.  Keeping them in the cool, but frost free, garage helps in two ways, > it keeps the squirrels from finding the ungerminated seeds and eating them, > and if some of the seeds germinate early the young plants don't freeze. >  They're not houseplants, germinating and growing them at room temperature > over the winter is not recommended.  Well cared for plants often flower when > just a few years old. > > >> > > 43. Seed of Lilium sp?    I did not see the open flower. From dried petals > on some plants the color was yellow/orange. This could mean L. pardalinum, > or L. kelleyanum. The common name for this lily is "Leopard Lily." > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From Billthebulbbaron@aol.com Fri, 30 Sep 2011 09:00:15 -0700 Message-Id: <2ffa0.6e1fc8d2.3bb72c9f@aol.com> From: Billthebulbbaron@aol.com Subject: Amarygia progress Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 10:30:55 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 9/29/11 9:48:45 PM, michaelcmace@gmail.com writes: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/83542459@N00/6197166904/in/photostream > Mike, How good is the pollen (in appearance) on this plant, versus the other amaryllis you have? Do you recall if the foliage was different in any way such as a bit glaucous? Best wishes, Bill the Bulb Baron (William R.P. Welch) From michaelcmace@gmail.com Fri, 30 Sep 2011 12:00:07 -0700 Message-Id: <007001cc7f9b$83481720$89d84560$@com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Amarygia progress Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 11:05:16 -0700 Bill asked: >>How good is the pollen (in appearance) on this plant, versus the other amaryllis you have? Do you recall if the foliage was different in any way such as a bit glaucous? The pollen looks normal. I found an old photo of these bulbs in leaf, and labeled the one that produced the twisted tepals. The two bulbs that look the most glaucous in the photo are of course the ones that haven't bloomed yet. http://www.flickr.com/photos/83542459@N00/6198082793/in/photostream If I had to guess, I'd say my twisted flower is just a Hannibal cross that happens to have twisted tepals. Mike San Jose, CA From kjblack@pacbell.net Fri, 30 Sep 2011 18:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: <1317422987.66370.YahooMailClassic@web80404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: Amarygia progress Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 15:49:47 -0700 (PDT) Hey Mike!   To answer your first question ... YES ... all TINY seeds ... all of what I believe to be hybrids from my own 2005 cross between X A.belladonnas (seed parents ... themselves likely F2 hybrids, given to me by the late Wayne Roderick in the 90s) and B.josephinae (pollen parent - the product of seed from Wayne's B.josephinae plant in 1995.)    That is not to say only tiny seed was produced ... there were also larger/normal sized seed in the same pods.  Based on previous accounts by Jim Lycos, 2003, posted via PBS at: http://web.archive.org/web/20050521205157/http://bulbsociety.org/GALLERY_OF_THE_WORLDS_BULBS/GRAPHICS/Amarygia/Lykos/JL.html  that the tiny seeds were likely indications of a successful cross ...  I disposed* of the larger seeds and grew-on only the tiny seeds.  Many of these seem to struggle.  I selected ... perhaps babied is a better term ... only those seedlings which displayed bluish-green foliage, ie, midway between the green foliage of A.belladonna and the blue-grey-green foliage of B.josephinae.   There were seedlings with bright green foliage but I weeded them out for the most part.    I've had 3 blooms this year from the remaining group (now 6 years old) ... 2 of which appear to have the ordinary X Amarygia flowers and the most recent bloom which definitely displays some B.josephinae heritage.     *With respect to the larger seeds, when I say 'disposed'  ... I actually clandestinely spread them one early Sunday morning, commando-style, along a local un-manicured roadway in hopes there would eventually be scattered blooms of X A.belladonna rising one late summer along the roadway.  I did this 3 years in a row and noticed successful germination and growth ... but my efforts were spoiled 2 years ago when the city sprayed to control weeds! <:-(    The round-up pretty much killed everything growing at the time, including the little winter-growing bulbs.   I've also had two different seed-grown X A.belladonnas that display twisted tepals ... the result of crossing F2 hybrids given to me by Wayne. http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/4932870064/  This year, I have back crossed each of them to see what I get.   I suspect that some Brunsvigia genes are carried forward with each cross.  I guess we need somebody to sequence the DNA on these things!    Ken Blackford San Diego        --- On Thu, 9/29/11, Michael Mace wrote: I was interested by the photo you posted of one of the siblings to that flower, which looks a lot like a typical Amaryllis hybrid: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6194041160/in/photostream/ Do you remember if this came from one of the tiny seeds that you sometimes get from Amarygia crosses, or a larger seed?  I'm wondering if the seed size/color corresponds to the type of flower you get. I got flowers this fall from some hybrids of B. josephinae and a Les Hannibal Amaryllis.  They looked a lot like the typical Hannibal Amaryllis, so I thought the seedlings must have been apomictic or an accidental cross from some Amaryllis pollen that blew in.  But seeing your sibling photo, I'm starting to wonder if I did get a real cross that just doesn't express a lot of josephinae characteristics.  In particular, there's one plant that has flowers with strangely twisted tepals.  You can see it here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/83542459@N00/6197166904/in/photostream Or maybe it's just a Hannibal hybrid with twisted tepals.  I'd appreciate comments from more knowledgeable growers than me. Mike San Jose, CA From cynthiasbulbs@hotmail.com Fri, 30 Sep 2011 18:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: Cynthia Mueller Subject: Hippeastrum recessive color? Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 19:41:43 -0500 Dear Hippeastrum breeders: Could anyone tell me which flower colors would be recessive to yellow genes? Thanks, Cynthia W. Mueller, College Station, TX From mmrainforest@yahoo.com Fri, 30 Sep 2011 18:00:09 -0700 Message-Id: <1317430267.70049.YahooMailNeo@web125711.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Michael Miyashiro Subject: Hippeastrum recessive color? Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:51:07 -0700 (PDT) a true white species ________________________________ From: Cynthia Mueller To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Hippeastrum recessive color? Dear Hippeastrum breeders: Could anyone tell me which flower colors would be recessive to yellow genes? Thanks, Cynthia W. Mueller, College Station, TX                         From awilson@avonia.com Fri, 30 Sep 2011 21:00:11 -0700 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: What's blooming Week of 26 September Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 18:15:12 -0700 Here is the first oxalis here this season . I think it's O. commutata but so say if you think not. http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewrmw/6199508534/lightbox Andrew From cynthiasbulbs@hotmail.com Fri, 30 Sep 2011 21:00:11 -0700 Message-Id: From: Cynthia Mueller Subject: Hippeastrum recessive color? Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 20:39:20 -0500 Michael, is there anything commercially available besides H. brazilianum - possibly the hybrid 'Amputo' for use as a recessive to yellow? -Cynthia W. Mueller > Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:51:07 -0700 > From: mmrainforest@yahoo.com > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] Hippeastrum recessive color? > > a true white species > > > ________________________________ > From: Cynthia Mueller > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 2:41 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Hippeastrum recessive color? > > > > > Dear Hippeastrum breeders: Could anyone tell me which flower colors would be recessive to yellow genes? Thanks, Cynthia W. Mueller, College Station, TX > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From joshuakyleyoung@gmail.com Fri, 30 Sep 2011 21:00:11 -0700 Message-Id: From: Joshua Young Subject: Hippeastrum recessive color? Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 21:55:09 -0400 Cynthia, I would start with species and go from there, it's a way you know exactly what's in the gene pool. Hippeastrum parodii, Hippeastrum evansiae both have yellow tones. H. viridiflorum is quite yellow but sadly it isn't available, it's probably the most truly yellow species I've seen being similar to a lemon. My guess is if this plant every becomes more available than we will have those truly yellow hybrids we're looking for! Josh -- http://www.fortheloveofbulbs.blogspot.com/