From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Tue, 01 May 2012 00:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1075069292.100623.1335854429742.JavaMail.www@wwinf1m20> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Odp:  Galanthus hardiness Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 08:40:29 +0200 (CEST) Yes I have observed the eastern european form of Galanthus nivalis coming into growth and flowering up to a month later then the local stock of native G. nivalis here. There are quite a few clones around that maybe worth your while getting. G. nivalis 'Virescens' is a very old cultivar that is probably of eastern european origin. It is one of the last to flower along side 'Danube Star' which was for some time known as 'Hololeucus'.The colder and later springs you mention are an interesting explanation. Thanks! Mark. 1924 route de la mer, 76119 Sainte Marguerite-sur-mer, France. " Objet : [pbs] Odp:  Galanthus hardiness > In my unstable winter climate G. nivalis have one very important feature - it starts vegetation LATE thus late severe frosts do not hit the leaves over the ground - what is the case in many other snowdrop species (woronowii, elwesii). > > Jacek, Poland, zone 6" _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From sujithart@gmail.com Tue, 01 May 2012 08:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Sujit Hart Subject: Whats blooming now - week of April 30th, 2012 Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 09:57:14 -0500 Ken, Did it take you 15 years for your first *Boophone disticha* to bloom from seed? Does anyone konw if it can do well indooor? Thanks, Sujit Houston, Texas On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Ken wrote: > After returning home from the very enjoyable PBS get-together in the San > Francisco Bay Area (thank you Nhu and all involved!) I was greeted > by emerging > buds from two of my Summer-growing Boophone disticha. I was busy > cross-pollinating this AM, but needed a break since close work with these > blooms > does give me both sore eyes and a headache. The sweet fragrance on a this > still, humid morning under marine clouds, is pleasant ... until you get > close, > at which point it smells to me more like a pesticide. > > Here are a few links to shots on Flickr: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/7129143593/in/photostream/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/6983057046/in/photostream/ > > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From kjblack@pacbell.net Tue, 01 May 2012 09:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <1335886691.25104.YahooMailRC@web181014.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: Whats blooming now - week of April 30th, 2012 Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 08:38:11 -0700 (PDT) Hi Sujit, other than my Boophone disticha X Amaryllis belladonna crosses, the first of which bloomed at 5 years, I have not bloomed Boophone from seed ... yet.  All my early seed-grown B.disticha seedlings succumbed to mealy, and I now proactively treat seedlings with imidacloprid and see no sign of mealy bug.  My own oldest seed-grown plants are a little over 5 years now, and I am hopeful I will see blooms this year.  I did purchase some small seedlings, which I suspect were not more than 3 years old, some of which bloomed a year after I put them in the ground, so perhaps 5 years is possible for the species as well.  My experience is their growth is best (and I assume maturity soonest) if they can be planted in the ground or a very large container where the roots can run.  I moved a 3.5 year old bulb a year after it had been in the ground, and discovered several of its roots had exceeded 30 inches and one was over 3 feet long.  I've seen them well displayed in relatively small pots at plant shows, but not in bloom.  I suspect roots were cut to make them fit and that would likely have a negative effect on subsequent growth and bloom.  I think a greenhouse may be necessary to grow them to bloom size where Winter temps can drop well below freezing ... I am sure there may be others on this list who can add their experiences.  I do not think well grown B.disticha should take 15 years to bloom and suspect the range to be from 5-10 years. Ken San Diego  ________________________________ From: Sujit Hart Ken, Did it take you 15 years for your first *Boophone disticha* to bloom from seed? Does anyone konw if it can do well indooor? Thanks, Sujit Houston, Texas From sujithart@gmail.com Tue, 01 May 2012 09:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Sujit Hart Subject: Whats blooming now - week of April 30th, 2012 Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 10:53:09 -0500 Thank you Ken. On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Ken wrote: > Hi Sujit, > > other than my Boophone disticha X Amaryllis belladonna crosses, the first > of > which bloomed at 5 years, I have not bloomed Boophone from seed ... yet. > All my > early seed-grown B.disticha seedlings succumbed to mealy, and I now > proactively > treat seedlings with imidacloprid and see no sign of mealy bug. My own > oldest > seed-grown plants are a little over 5 years now, and I am hopeful I will > see > blooms this year. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From arnold140@verizon.net Tue, 01 May 2012 11:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <5741518.1085340.1335892730057.JavaMail.root@vms170025> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Boophone disticha Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 12:18:49 -0500 (CDT) I have a number of Boophone Disticha that were started from Silverhill seed almost ten years ago. They spend summers outside exposed to our New Jersey summers and until recently went into the basement for winter. This year they overwintered in the cool greenhouse with miniature Narcissus and SA bulbs. Each one is about two to three inches in diameter and haven't flowered so far. As per Ken's suggestion I may pot then in larger pots. I've seen then potted up in small pots, but never in flower. Arnold New Jersey From totototo@telus.net Tue, 01 May 2012 11:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <4F9FBCD4.18010.30B68E7@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Galanthus hardiness Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 10:37:08 -0700 On 30 Apr 2012, at 23:26, Jacek Zwoli ski wrote: > My experience with general bulb commerce in Europe is the following: galanthus > bulbs survive drying, though injured while leucojum vernum do not survive. > Purchase directly from the nursery that grows the bulbs may shorten the dry > period and thus help the bulbs to survive. I have had reasonable success with flabby fall-purchased commercial Leucojum vernum by soaking as described in my earlier message, potting up in clean, washed sand, and keeping in a cold frame over winter. However, when planted out in growth the next spring, very few survived. My suspicion is that though this treatment brings them to life, the bulbs are still quite weak and prone to rot in the open garden. If they ever turn up again locally, I would keep them in their pot of sand for at least another growing season before planting out. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From steyrhahn@yahoo.com Tue, 01 May 2012 12:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <1335896820.19263.YahooMailNeo@web121705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: "Randy.R" Subject: Whats blooming now - week of April 30th, 2012 Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 11:27:00 -0700 (PDT) My first crinum are up in north Georgia. some bulbispermum. http://randyrick.us/FlowerGarden/crinum/WhitePawnApr2012c.JPG Randy From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Tue, 01 May 2012 13:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <410-2201252119481296@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: Boophone disticha Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 15:48:01 -0400 > > I have a number of Boophone Disticha that were started from Silverhill seed almost ten years ago. > Mine from the same source began blooming in year 11, three bulbs per 10 gallon container. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 8 From elilium71@roadrunner.com Tue, 01 May 2012 13:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <20120501195418.P760W.118829.root@cdptpa-web18-z01> From: Subject: Amorphophallus titanum about to Bloom in Niagara Falls Ontario Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 15:54:18 -0400 Hi all, Anyone in the Niagara Peninsula, Western New york or Southern Ontario you might want to take a look. http://blog.niagaraparks.com/news/worlds-tallest-flower-growing-at-niagara-parks/ It is expected to bloom today or tomorrow. I hope to get up there on Saturday. Has anyone experienced the bloom's fragrance personally? What should I expect? Thanks, Eric Duma NY side of the lake From plicht@berkeley.edu Tue, 01 May 2012 15:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <4FA05DEE.8050205@berkeley.edu> From: Paul Licht Subject: Amorphophallus titanum about to Bloom in Niagara Falls Ontario Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 15:04:30 -0700 Having experienced 8 so far in the Garden here, I can tell you to expect a large rotting rat odor for at least 12 hrs if not a bit more. Paul Paul Licht, Director University of California Botanical Garden 200 Centennial Drive Berkeley, CA 94720 (510)-643-8999 http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu On 5/1/2012 12:54 PM, elilium71@roadrunner.com wrote: > Hi all, > Anyone in the Niagara Peninsula, Western New york or Southern Ontario you might want to take a look. > http://blog.niagaraparks.com/news/worlds-tallest-flower-growing-at-niagara-parks/ > It is expected to bloom today or tomorrow. I hope to get up there on Saturday. > Has anyone experienced the bloom's fragrance personally? What should I expect? > Thanks, > Eric Duma > NY side of the lake > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From ds429@comcast.net Tue, 01 May 2012 16:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <1530631627.2247155.1335912441565.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: Amorphophallus titanum about to Bloom in Niagara Falls Ontario Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 22:47:21 +0000 (UTC) Well, Paul, isn't that something to look forward to?! Oh, I can think of many political occasions where pots of blooming Amorphophallus titanum would set the tone most appropriately! Dell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Licht" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 6:04:30 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Amorphophallus titanum about to Bloom in Niagara Falls Ontario Having experienced 8 so far in the Garden here, I can tell you to expect a large rotting rat odor for at least 12 hrs if not a bit more. Paul Paul Licht, Director University of California Botanical Garden 200 Centennial Drive Berkeley, CA 94720 (510)-643-8999 http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu On 5/1/2012 12:54 PM, elilium71@roadrunner.com wrote: > Hi all, > Anyone in the Niagara Peninsula, Western New york or Southern Ontario you might want to take a look. > http://blog.niagaraparks.com/news/worlds-tallest-flower-growing-at-niagara-parks/ > It is expected to bloom today or tomorrow. I hope to get up there on Saturday. > Has anyone experienced the bloom's fragrance personally? What should I expect? > Thanks, > Eric Duma > NY side of the lake > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From plicht@berkeley.edu Tue, 01 May 2012 16:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <4FA06BC0.7030606@berkeley.edu> From: Paul Licht Subject: Amorphophallus titanum about to Bloom in Niagara Falls Ontario Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 16:03:28 -0700 Most of the political occasions I'm familiar with do not require a titan to create this odor. Paul Paul Licht, Director University of California Botanical Garden 200 Centennial Drive Berkeley, CA 94720 (510)-643-8999 http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu On 5/1/2012 3:47 PM, ds429@comcast.net wrote: > > Well, Paul, isn't that something to look forward to?! Oh, I can think of many political occasions where pots of blooming Amorphophallus titanum would set the tone most appropriately! > > > > Dell > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Paul Licht" > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 6:04:30 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Amorphophallus titanum about to Bloom in Niagara Falls Ontario > > Having experienced 8 so far in the Garden here, I can tell > you to expect a large rotting rat odor for at least 12 hrs > if not a bit more. > Paul > > Paul Licht, Director > University of California Botanical Garden > 200 Centennial Drive > Berkeley, CA 94720 > (510)-643-8999 > http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu > > > > On 5/1/2012 12:54 PM, elilium71@roadrunner.com wrote: >> Hi all, >> Anyone in the Niagara Peninsula, Western New york or Southern Ontario you might want to take a look. >> http://blog.niagaraparks.com/news/worlds-tallest-flower-growing-at-niagara-parks/ >> It is expected to bloom today or tomorrow. I hope to get up there on Saturday. >> Has anyone experienced the bloom's fragrance personally? What should I expect? >> Thanks, >> Eric Duma >> NY side of the lake >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From randysgarden@gmail.com Tue, 01 May 2012 20:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Randall P. Linke" Subject: Boophone disticha Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 19:20:06 -0700 I have an abundance of California 15's, the deep variety of 15 "gallon" nursery container. I was thinking of planting five or six, one to a pot (I have B. disticha and B. haemanthioides that are about two to three years old and rather abused). It sounds like from the description of the root run this would not be too much, but is it overkill if three to a 10 gallon container will come into bloom? Randy Monterey Bay Region, California Mediterranean climate, zone 9 On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 12:48 PM, MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER < markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net> wrote: > > > > I have a number of Boophone Disticha that were started from Silverhill > seed almost ten years ago. > > > > Mine from the same source began blooming in year 11, three bulbs per 10 > gallon container. > > Mark Mazer > Hertford, North Carolina USA > Zone 8 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- * * A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right. - Thomas Paine --- * * From klazina@orcon.net.nz Wed, 02 May 2012 05:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FA118E4.5000300@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Dahlia imperialis Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 23:22:12 +1200 Some time last December Jim McKenney asked about Dahlia imperialis and I emailed Keith Hammett for more info. He has now remembered and got round to answering my query. It is a PDF so I cannot send it to the PBS. Do you want me to send it on to you? Ina Crossley From bulborum@gmail.com Wed, 02 May 2012 09:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Dahlia imperialis Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 17:35:18 +0200 Yes please If you want I can try to make it a text document Roland 2012/5/2 Ina : > Some time last December Jim McKenney asked about Dahlia imperialis and I > emailed Keith Hammett for more info.  He has now remembered and got > round to answering my query.  It is a PDF so I cannot send it to the PBS. > > Do you want me to send it on to you? > > Ina Crossley > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From lmf@beautifulblooms.ab.ca Thu, 03 May 2012 07:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <002501cd2937$38a3c750$a9eb55f0$@ab.ca> From: "Linda Foulis" Subject: galanthus hardiness Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 08:15:41 -0600 Thank you all for the info on galanthus. I think my best bet will be to find someone local who grows it and obtain some fresh bulbs from them. Or give up on trying to grow them. Linda Foulis Zone 3 Chilly rainy Red Deer, but the grass is turning green. From msittner@mcn.org Thu, 03 May 2012 08:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <20120503142603.8D2F2E8BA4@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Thelymitra article Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 07:26:02 -0700 Hi, I was contacted by Peter Bernhardt who gave me permission to add to the wiki an interesting article he wrote for the Friends of Kings Park (Perth, Australia's amazing garden) magazine about the pollination of these orchids, Sun Orchids, Successful and Immoral. I have linked it to the wiki page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Thelymitra for those of you interested in reading it. I'm giving the link to the page instead of the article so you can also see the link to Peter's page to read about what else he has written and the Friends page and once again look at the photos of these gorgeous flowers. It was very kind of him to make this paper available. In Peter's email to me he wrote: >By the way, you do realize this is an anniversary year for the study >of bulbous plants. In 1862 (150 years ago) Charles Darwin published >the first edition of his book, "On the Various Contrivances by Which >Orchids are Fertilised by Insects." All of the british orchids he >studied (about 26 species) are bulbous or rhizomatous perennials. Mary Sue From dkramb@badbear.com Thu, 03 May 2012 08:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Thelymitra article Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 11:03:49 -0400 What a delightful genus (that I've never heard of)! Thanks for this great article. It was fun to read. Dennis in Cincinnati (where the Sarracenia are in full bloom) From thegardenguru@yahoo.com Thu, 03 May 2012 08:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1336057526.99046.YahooMailClassic@web45815.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> From: Joseph Seals Subject: Whats blooming now - week of April 30th, 2012 Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 08:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Ken:  Do you have photos of your Boophane x Amaryllis cross? I'm working with another breeder on Amaryllids (mostly S. African).  Would be happy to share our notes with you. Joe Joseph SealsConsultantArroyo Grande, CaliforniaCell: 805-823-5696 New book: "Central Coast Gardening Essentials"more info at: www.centralcoastkitchenandgarden.com  --- On Tue, 5/1/12, Ken wrote: From: Ken Subject: Re: [pbs] Whats blooming now - week of April 30th, 2012 To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Tuesday, May 1, 2012, 8:38 AM Hi Sujit, other than my Boophone disticha X Amaryllis belladonna crosses, the first of which bloomed at 5 years, I have not bloomed Boophone from seed ... yet.  All my early seed-grown B.disticha seedlings succumbed to mealy, and I now proactively treat seedlings with imidacloprid and see no sign of mealy bug.  My own oldest seed-grown plants are a little over 5 years now, and I am hopeful I will see blooms this year.  I did purchase some small seedlings, which I suspect were not more than 3 years old, some of which bloomed a year after I put them in the ground, so perhaps 5 years is possible for the species as well.  My experience is their growth is best (and I assume maturity soonest) if they can be planted in the ground or a very large container where the roots can run.  I moved a 3.5 year old bulb a year after it had been in the ground, and discovered several of its roots had exceeded 30 inches and one was over 3 feet long.  I've seen them well displayed in relatively small pots at plant shows, but not in bloom.  I suspect roots were cut to make them fit and that would likely have a negative effect on subsequent growth and bloom.  I think a greenhouse may be necessary to grow them to bloom size where Winter temps can drop well below freezing ... I am sure there may be others on this list who can add their experiences.  I do not think well grown B.disticha should take 15 years to bloom and suspect the range to be from 5-10 years. Ken San Diego  ________________________________ From: Sujit Hart Ken, Did it take you 15 years for your first *Boophone disticha* to bloom from seed? Does anyone konw if it can do well indooor? Thanks, Sujit Houston, Texas From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu, 03 May 2012 15:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Whats blooming now - week of April 30th, 2012 Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 13:15:03 -0500 Blooming now and 'Fly By'.... Dear Friends, We were sitting out on the deck for lunch in the just about 80 F weather. The deck is twenty feet from two blooming Dracunculus vulgaris, both at peak 'stick', but we were up wind. Apparently the smell also rises as first 1, then 2 and finally 4 turkey vultures made low 'fly overs'' . I am certain they were attracted to the scent or the activity. Fially they drifted off to the south. We have three other clumps that will be blooming soon and we do admire the large beautiful deep red spathes and darker spadices. Really wonders of nature and we feel fortunate that they are hardy here and bloom reliably (Zone 5/6). About 2 weeks ago we had two blooms on Helicodicerous musciverous an even more outlandish inflorescence and stinkier still. Some very late planted bulbs of Camassia 'Sacajewea' are coming into flower much MUCH after various other cvs. and species. I am a bit disappointed since these are advertised as highly variegated, but the variegation is of the short lived spring type. It is almost faded by the time of flowering. These were just planted late last year (end of season sale from Brent and Becky's) so we hope they'll perform better in a more normal season next spring. It is just the start of Crinum season here. Some 3 year old bubispemum seedlings are just putting up their first spikes. These receive no special winter care. Expect to see a range of red to pink shades. One of the parent plants is also sending up 4 spikes. Most will bloom more in summer than end of spring although the temps suggest otherwise. An array of hardy glads are starting too. I must dig out the excellent key to these mostly Italian species -communis, byzantinum and italicus and correct labels. We also have one labelled 'dubia' I think from a PBS Seed Ex and a couple other species and colors. Odd spring weather with many bulbs and other plants blooming way too early and in odd sequences and combinations. See if things calm down as summer progresses. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From bulborum@gmail.com Thu, 03 May 2012 16:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Whats blooming now - week of April 30th, 2012 Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 00:23:25 +0200 The first year (Late planted) al my acajewea's where green leaved I complained at the company where I bought them but to my surprise the year after they where nice variegated So there is hope for you Jim Roland 2012/5/3 James Waddick : > Blooming now and 'Fly By'.... > >        Some very late planted bulbs of Camassia 'Sacajewea' are > coming into flower much MUCH after various other cvs. and species.  I > am a bit disappointed since these are advertised as highly > variegated, but the variegation is of the short lived spring type. It > is almost faded by the time of flowering. These were just planted > late last year (end of season sale from Brent and Becky's) so we hope > they'll perform better in a more normal season next spring. -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri, 04 May 2012 08:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Whats blooming now - week of April 30th, 2012 Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 22:54:46 -0500 >The first year (Late planted) al my Sacajewea's where green leaved >I complained at the company where I bought them >but to my surprise >the year after they where nice variegated Dear Roland and all, Mine came up lightly variegated, but are very slow to bloom. By the time they actually open I think all the variegation will be gone. Of course the temps are already at 90 F and it is an odd year, their first. See what happens next year. Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From Theladygardens@aol.com Fri, 04 May 2012 00:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <67f27.3e60ff09.3cd4d693@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: PCI's Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 02:52:04 -0400 (EDT) I mailed you pollen from three PCI's. I hope they are good. One is Canyon Snow, white. I don't have the name yet of the yellow or pink but have asked my friend for the names. She says she has them written on a map so if she finds it I will e-mail the names. The pink is beautiful, a true pink, not to light, not to dark. I hope she finds the name, I'd like to purchase that one. We had the Region 14 iris meeting here in Aptos last weekend. It was a wonderful event. We had one guest from Spain, a couple from England and others the others were from 36 different iris societies across the US On Sunday, after a tour of Joe Ghio's growing ranch and his private home garden, I got a private tour of Bill Maryott's greenhouse and growing fields. It was wonderful, makes a person want to come home and pollinate everything in the garden. I'll still try to get more pollen if I can. My PCI's are blooming in beautiful shades of blue, purple, brown, red/black. No white, pink or yellow yet. I lost a lot when we had the outside of the house painted. Good luck with the pollen, Carolyn From Theladygardens@aol.com Fri, 04 May 2012 00:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <67f5a.5fc3d06.3cd4d742@aol.com> From: Theladygardens@aol.com Subject: sorry for hitting the reply button and posting to the entire group Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 02:54:58 -0400 (EDT) From hheaven77@aol.com Fri, 04 May 2012 07:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <8CEF8167E94DA68-19D0-3E4C2@Webmail-m105.sysops.aol.com> From: Celeste Subject: sorry for hitting the reply button and posting to the entire group Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 10:08:20 -0400 (EDT) I thought that was an interesting read (even if it wasn't meant for me!). Celeste Gornick Phoenix, AZ (where it is predicted to be close to 100 degrees this weekend.) -----Original Message----- From: Theladygardens To: pbs Sent: Thu, May 3, 2012 11:55 pm Subject: [pbs] sorry for hitting the reply button and posting to the entire group From ksayce@willapabay.org Fri, 04 May 2012 11:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <2574D9DB-53B9-4AFD-B5F4-B7D05A560E26@willapabay.org> From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: PCI's Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 11:02:50 -0700 I'm interested too. True pinks are difficult to get among PCIs. I would love to know the name of your pink PCI. Glad to know the Region 14 meeting went well. I was driving back from the AIS convention, and in the far north of California and southern Oregon, looking at PCI species in the wild that weekend. Kathleen Kathleen Sayce PNW Coast, WHZ 8, dryish cool summers & mild wet winters From frewintp@gmail.com Fri, 04 May 2012 15:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: terry frewin Subject: gladiolus id Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 07:50:29 +1000 I'd appreciate any help with an ID for this glad, flowering now first week in May, mid autumn, small flower - thanks Terry http://www.flickr.com/photos/bohovalleyplants/6981210902/in/photostream -- terry frewin 661 upper boho road boho 3669 03 5790 8635 0429 908 635 From thegardenguru@yahoo.com Fri, 04 May 2012 20:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <1336186833.58874.YahooMailClassic@web45810.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> From: Joseph Seals Subject: gladiolus id Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 20:00:33 -0700 (PDT) How about G. x lemoinei or a pale form of G. serpenticola? It's nice, regardless. Joe Joseph SealsConsultantArroyo Grande, CaliforniaCell: 805-823-5696 New book: "Central Coast Gardening Essentials"more info at: www.centralcoastkitchenandgarden.com  --- On Fri, 5/4/12, terry frewin wrote: From: terry frewin Subject: [pbs] gladiolus id To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Friday, May 4, 2012, 2:50 PM I'd appreciate any help with an ID for this glad, flowering now first week in May, mid autumn, small flower - thanks Terry http://www.flickr.com/photos/bohovalleyplants/6981210902/in/photostream -- terry frewin 661 upper boho road boho 3669 03 5790 8635 0429 908 635 From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri, 04 May 2012 21:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <4FA49D9F.6080204@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: query some months ago Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 15:25:19 +1200 Some months ago I wanted to know what the bulb was which I am growing. Today I thought I can check back in my email program and see what it is as I had asked Terry and Lindsey Hatch for it and it was from Terry's private collection. It is Haemanthus coccineus alba. https://picasaweb.google.com/102349754034616089606/Garden?authkey=Gv1sRgCJ3fubLO7YSTqAE This is the photo which I took then. It has not yet flowered, but seems happy enough. Am looking forward to seeing it flower, hopefully next season. Ina Crossley Auckland, New Zealand Zone 10a From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri, 04 May 2012 21:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <4FA4A0C5.7040005@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: query some months ago Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 15:38:45 +1200 Or let me say that is what I asked for and presumed I got . On 5/05/2012 3:25 p.m., Ina wrote: > It is Haemanthus coccineus alba. From frewintp@gmail.com Fri, 04 May 2012 23:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: terry frewin Subject: gladiolus id Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 16:08:28 +1000 Thank you Joe - the only image I could find for x lemoinei was a print, and comparing it to G. serpenticola in the wiki, I'd choose serpenticola - the form/colouring etc matches it much more so than the other. The wiki says this comes from serpentine soils - is there any particular type of potting mix or treatment this will need to keep it happy? On Sat, May 5, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Joseph Seals wrote: > How about G. x lemoinei or a pale form of G. serpenticola? > > It's nice, regardless. > > Joe > > Joseph SealsConsultantArroyo Grande, CaliforniaCell: 805-823-5696 > New book: "Central Coast Gardening Essentials"more info at: > www.centralcoastkitchenandgarden.com > > --- On Fri, 5/4/12, terry frewin wrote: > > From: terry frewin > Subject: [pbs] gladiolus id > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Date: Friday, May 4, 2012, 2:50 PM > > I'd appreciate any help with an ID for this glad, flowering now first week > in May, mid autumn, small flower - thanks Terry > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/bohovalleyplants/6981210902/in/photostream > -- > terry frewin > 661 upper boho road > boho 3669 > 03 5790 8635 > 0429 908 635 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- terry frewin 661 upper boho road boho 3669 03 5790 8635 0429 908 635 From arnold140@verizon.net Sat, 05 May 2012 05:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <18861260.1525125.1336216983480.JavaMail.root@vms170025> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: gladiolus id Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 06:23:03 -0500 (CDT) Terry: Goldblatt and Manning in their Gladiolus in Southern Africa state that G. serpenticola "flowers Early February to late March, rarely in January". Soils are high concentrations of toxic minerals , including unusually high magnesium/calcium ratios. They often are associated with high levels of iron and cobalt, and potentially toxic concentrations of chromium and nickel. Arnold On 05/04/12, terry frewin wrote: I'd appreciate any help with an ID for this glad, flowering now first week in May, mid autumn, small flower - thanks Terry http://www.flickr.com/photos/bohovalleyplants/6981210902/in/photostream -- terry frewin 661 upper boho road boho 3669 03 5790 8635 0429 908 635 From jgglatt@gmail.com Sat, 05 May 2012 10:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <4FA55E3B.6000204@gmail.com> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: Holland in Tulip Time Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 13:07:07 -0400 Granted that almost everyone here is focusing on South African bulb, and species at that - I spent 8 days in the Netherlands in late April. Part of a tour, we did all the tourist things with a bulb slant: Aaslmeer flower market, Hortus Bulborum, Keukenhof. And the Floriade, this being a year that ends in "2". Tulips, daffodils, hyacinths, and more. It's taking me longer to create website entries than it did to create the memories. I'm half-way through the trip. If anyone wants to have a look, see here: Holland in Tulip Time Judy in New jersey, where the Dutch weather followed me home with overcast skies and drizzle From s.gage100@hotmail.com Sat, 05 May 2012 14:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Shelley Gage Subject: Holland in Tulip Time Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 07:41:13 +1030 Dear Judy,I plan on visiting Floriade mid-July. How many days should I allow in our schedule? Would one day be a taste or should I allow more. Sadly Keukenof won't be open then because in the past I haven't been able to spend enough days there there is so much to see and I love Keukenof.Shelley > Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 13:07:07 -0400 > From: jgglatt@gmail.com > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [pbs] Holland in Tulip Time > > Granted that almost everyone here is focusing on South African bulb, and > species at that - > > I spent 8 days in the Netherlands in late April. Part of a tour, we did > all the tourist things with a bulb slant: Aaslmeer flower market, Hortus > Bulborum, Keukenhof. And the Floriade, this being a year that ends in > "2". Tulips, daffodils, hyacinths, and more. It's taking me longer to > create website entries than it did to create the memories. I'm half-way > through the trip. If anyone wants to have a look, see here: Holland in > Tulip Time > > > > Judy in New jersey, where the Dutch weather followed me home with > overcast skies and drizzle > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From NSterman@PlantSoup.Com Sat, 05 May 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nan Sterman Subject: Holland in Tulip Time Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 23:29:12 +0200 Hi Judy I am on that trip right now, so I am excited to read about your experiencd! Nan Www.PlantSoup.com On May 5, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Judy Glattstein wrote: > Granted that almost everyone here is focusing on South African bulb, and > species at that - > > I spent 8 days in the Netherlands in late April. Part of a tour, we did > all the tourist things with a bulb slant: Aaslmeer flower market, Hortus > Bulborum, Keukenhof. And the Floriade, this being a year that ends in > "2". Tulips, daffodils, hyacinths, and more. It's taking me longer to > create website entries than it did to create the memories. I'm half-way > through the trip. If anyone wants to have a look, see here: Holland in > Tulip Time > > > > Judy in New jersey, where the Dutch weather followed me home with > overcast skies and drizzle > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sat, 05 May 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FA59E18.7070403@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: Holland in Tulip Time Date: Sun, 06 May 2012 09:39:36 +1200 Shelley I went to the Floriade in 2002 and it was amazing, I went twice and didn't get to see it all. However, as Judy says, she brought the Dutch weather back with her, drizzle and grey skies, and it was COLD! So be prepared with some warmer clothes. Personally I was disappointed in het Keukenhof, as I found it too touristy. The Floriade is a feast for the eyes, from all over the world. I wonder how you have found it for being cold Nan? Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 On 6/05/2012 9:11 a.m., Shelley Gage wrote: > Dear Judy,I plan on visiting Floriade mid-July. How many days should I allow in our schedule? Would one day be a taste or should I allow more. > .Shelley From plantnut@cox.net Sat, 05 May 2012 19:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Joseph Kraatz Subject: Need I.D. Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 19:05:16 -0700 Two bulbs of which I haven't a tag. Just came into bloom this week. Might anyone have a thought as to the genus/species. Joe, Oceanside. http://www.flickr.com/photos/oceanside2012/ From thegardenguru@yahoo.com Sat, 05 May 2012 20:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1336272438.55934.YahooMailClassic@web45816.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> From: Joseph Seals Subject: Need I.D. Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 19:47:18 -0700 (PDT) How about yellow form of Ornithogalum dubium? Joe Joseph SealsConsultantArroyo Grande, CaliforniaCell: 805-823-5696 New book: "Central Coast Gardening Essentials"more info at: www.centralcoastkitchenandgarden.com  --- On Sat, 5/5/12, Joseph Kraatz wrote: From: Joseph Kraatz Subject: [pbs] Need I.D. To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Date: Saturday, May 5, 2012, 7:05 PM Two bulbs of which I haven't a tag.  Just came into bloom this week.  Might anyone have a thought as to the genus/species.  Joe,  Oceanside. http://www.flickr.com/photos/oceanside2012/ From NSterman@PlantSoup.Com Sat, 05 May 2012 23:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <3B743603-FB82-4AAA-893E-A946AD06D7EB@PlantSoup.Com> From: Nan Sterman Subject: Holland in Tulip Time Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 07:50:48 +0200 It is quite chilly, Ina. I just checked the weather for today and the expected high is 55 F while the low is 38 F, almost freezing and its the first week of May! I will report on the Keukenhof after tomorrow as we visit tomorrow. The only good news about the cool weather is that it is prolonging the tulip bloom. funny thing is, I am not wild about tulips, but here, they just look so right! Nan Www.PlantSoup.com On May 5, 2012, at 11:39 PM, Ina wrote: > Shelley I went to the Floriade in 2002 and it was amazing, I went twice > and didn't get to see it all. However, as Judy says, she brought the > Dutch weather back with her, drizzle and grey skies, and it was COLD! > So be prepared with some warmer clothes. > > Personally I was disappointed in het Keukenhof, as I found it too > touristy. The Floriade is a feast for the eyes, from all over the world. > > I wonder how you have found it for being cold Nan? > > Ina Crossley > > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > On 6/05/2012 9:11 a.m., Shelley Gage wrote: >> Dear Judy,I plan on visiting Floriade mid-July. How many days should I allow in our schedule? Would one day be a taste or should I allow more. >> .Shelley > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From awilson@avonia.com Sat, 05 May 2012 23:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <96CEA092D3A845FCBD23327D0156270B@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: Thelymitra article Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 23:02:06 -0700 Thelymitras are indeed lovely objects. I have seen them at several sites in the woodlands east and south of Perth. The blue colorations are incredible. These are terrestrial orchids and are not easy to grow, as your article is careful to point out. Kits are now available with a 'correct' symbiotic balance in the soil with which they are packed. Even so, it is not easy to get them stabiliized. Whether we should introduce orchids to this website is an interesting question. I happen grow a fair number, mostly eastern Australian Dendrobiums. They are far easier to cultivate than the terrestrials of the southwest of Australia and do well along our southern Pacific coastline areas. This has been a superb year for them, in fact. If we were to introduce them or other orchids to this site it would certainly kindle new interests but it might also have a considerable impact on to[pics of discussions in this, our bulb world. Orchids, terrestrials or epiphytes, being so diverse, might overwhelm the primary activities of the site in due course. Having said that I would find it difficult to give a blanket 'no' to them. What do others say? Andrew San Diego From bgjulian@internode.on.net Sun, 06 May 2012 04:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <4FA65D72.3010400@internode.on.net> From: B & G Julian Subject: Gladiolus murielae taxonomy question Date: Sun, 06 May 2012 21:16:02 +1000 Can any member tell me if Gladiolus murielae sets viable seed and if so is the seed winged . I received some seeds purported to be this plant but I am a little dubious as the seed is spherical , about 4.5 mm diameter and seems to be covered in a blackish/purple skin .Gordon Julian , Tasmania From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 06:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Gladiolus murielae taxonomy question Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 13:18:49 +0100 The seeds I get are fat for a Gladiolus and the wing is definately there though not huge compared to some types of Gladiolus. The colour is dark reddish brown, sometimes paler on the papery bit (the wing). I have never rememberd to sow any but I am fairly sure the few good looking seeds which I get would be viable. They are not as big as 4mm in width, perhaps in length as they are oval Peter (UK) On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 12:16 PM, B & G Julian wrote: > Can any member tell me if Gladiolus murielae sets viable seed and if so > is the seed winged . I received some seeds purported to be this plant > but I am a little dubious as the seed is spherical , about 4.5 mm > diameter and seems to be covered in a blackish/purple skin .Gordon > From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 06:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Thelymitra article Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 13:48:06 +0100 for the purposes of this site I would count pseudobulbs as 'bulbs' in the colloquial sense. I have a couple of Australian orchids and wish that I had time and space to try more..and I would be glad to learn more about them against the day when I might try some more. Peter (UK) From s.gage100@hotmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 07:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Shelley Gage Subject: Thelymitra article Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 23:47:57 +1030 Dear Andrew, There are bulbous orchids like Calanthe for example and non-bulbous like many Dendrobiums so I guess they are like any other group of plants which have bulbous and non-bulbous forms so I wouldn't imagine this group discussing all orchids only the bulbous ones. I will be very interested to see what others think.I have yet to visit the Western Australian orchid areas but will one day. There is an excellent article on them and their locations in a recent Australian Native Plant Society magazine.Shelley Gage, SE Queensland, Australia > From: awilson@avonia.com > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 23:02:06 -0700 > Subject: [pbs] Thelymitra article > Orchids, terrestrials or epiphytes, > being so diverse, might overwhelm the primary activities of the site in due > course. Having said that I would find it difficult to give a blanket 'no' to > them. What do others say? > > Andrew > San Diego > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 07:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Need I.D. Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 13:33:45 +0000 The photo gives the misleading impression that the inflorescence is pendulous. From kimcmich@hotmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 08:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: What's blooming now - 5/06/12 Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 07:17:13 -0700 Greetings, I was delighted to discover today that one of the Boophone disticha planted-out in the front yard is sending up a bloom stalk! Planting these out in the yard was something of an experiment since Berkeley can get alot of winter rain. All of them made it through their first winter, at least. Boophone disticha 1Boophone disticha 2 -| From: Kipp McMichael Subject: What's blooming now - 5/06/12 Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 07:19:49 -0700 Greetings, Why did ibiblio strip out the links to images in this email? Can we now neither attach images nor link to them? > From: kimcmich@hotmail.com > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 07:17:13 -0700 > Subject: [pbs] What's blooming now - 5/06/12 > > > Greetings, > > I was delighted to discover today that one of the Boophone disticha planted-out in the front yard is sending up a bloom stalk! Planting these out in the yard was something of an experiment since Berkeley can get alot of winter rain. All of them made it through their first winter, at least. > > Boophone disticha 1Boophone disticha 2 > -| Berkeley, CA flatlands (Zone 9-10) > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ds429@comcast.net Sun, 06 May 2012 08:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <000001cd2b93$b57716c0$20654440$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific bulb Society BX 309 Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 10:22:45 -0400 Dear All,        The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared.   If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 309" in the subject line.         Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/ share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS.      Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org ....          If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds.             I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Roy Herold: BULBS Offsets and near-blooming size. 1. Drimiopsis maculata 2. Drimiopsis kirkii SEEDS 3. Eucomis zambesiaca--outside chance some are crossed with E. vandermervii. 4. Ophiopogon umbraticola--received as O. chingii, new ID by Mark McDonough. Berries have been left uncleaned so you can admire the iridescent blue color. Clean before planting. Clivia seeds are open pollinated, only a few of each, as the bees don't do a very good job. 5. Clivia 'Anna's Yellow' OP, from the magnificent garden of my wife's aunt in Hilton, KZN. The rest are from seedlings grown from Nakamura seed by Matt Mattus and Joe Philip. 6. Clivia 'Shortleaf Yellow x Shortleaf Yellow' OP 7. Clivia 'Monk x Daruma' OP 8. Clivia 'Multipetal x Self' OP--this one tends to throw interesting crested offsets. From Paul Otto: 9. Small corms of Gladiolus flanaganii From Max Withers: 10. Seed of Bomarea sp. (acutifolia?) ex Nhu Nguyen OP, probably selfed From Roland de Boer: Seeds(only one order of each): 11. Brachylaena discolor 12. Dietes butcheriana 13. Eucomis, mixed spp 14. Kniphofia uvaria 15. Monopsis lutea 16. Polyxena ensifolia var ensifolia Seeds (more than one order available) 17. Gentiana flavida 18. Aeonium hierrense 19. Colchicum corsicum ? 20. Galanthus reginae-olgae ssp reginae-olgae ex Sicily 21. Polygonatum alte-lobatum Thank you, Roy, Paul, Max, and Roland !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From kimcmich@hotmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 08:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: What's blooming now - 5/06/12 Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 07:22:48 -0700 Greetings, Trying this again without hyperlinks: I was delighted to discover today that one of the Boophone disticha planted-out in the front yard is sending up a bloom stalk! Planting these out in the yard was something of an experiment since Berkeley can get alot of winter rain. All of them made it through their first winter, at least. http://www.anexaminedlife.net/bulbs/boo.pnghttp://www.anexaminedlife.net/bulbs/boo2.png -| From: Kipp McMichael Subject: What's blooming now - 5/06/12 Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 07:25:44 -0700 Greetings, Okay - this is getting really frustrating. Third time's the charm? I was delighted to discover today that one of the Boophone disticha planted-out in the front yard is sending up a bloom stalk! Planting these out in the yard was something of an experiment since Berkeley can get alot of winter rain. All of them made it through their first winter, at least. http://www.anexaminedlife.net/bulbs/boo.png and http://www.anexaminedlife.net/bulbs/boo2.png -| From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Sun, 06 May 2012 07:52:30 -0700 In response to Andrew's question under the subject heading Thelymitra article I am giving the link again to the wiki page that describes what we have decided to include on the wiki. The wiki administrators took some time to discuss and decide this. We decided to be inclusive rather than exclusive thinking there was benefit in providing information. As always with such a broad group of possibilities, if something gets added to the wiki, it is because the person who added it chose to spend the time doing so. That is why some genera have a lot of information and photos, others not as much, and probably many potential genera are not represented at all. All members of this list can add to the wiki, but it does take a bit of time to learn how to do it. We really appreciate those people who contribute. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/WhatisaBulb From randysgarden@gmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 10:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Randall P. Linke" Subject: What's blooming now - 5/06/12 Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 09:28:25 -0700 It finally took! I just discovered one of the Crinum bulbispermums that I repotted into its own #5 can is sending up its first ever flower spathe as well. Very exciting to finally have them come into bloom! Randy Monterey Bay Area, California Zone 9 From richrd@nas.com Sun, 06 May 2012 12:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <5E913A59-B5AA-478E-9B92-C0F240B74276@nas.com> From: Richard Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 10:10:05 -0700 Better to qualify this definition as a Bulb 'sensu lato' or alternately in the sense of pacific bulb society. I love them all. Especially the range of their habitats, from extremely dry to truly aquatic a growth strategy many very different plants have attained. Purposed from energy storage to avoiding browsers to shallow growth in anoxic muck. I'm in midst this weekend writing an article for our nursery catalog about geophytes, the ones we grow, their role in nature and how they are and might be used in environmental restoration. Question does anyone have any articles, case studies or anecdotes about 'bulbs' in vegetation restoration? I'm using the anatomical definition of a bulb and been having fun lately digging up growing bulbs for photographing. What fascinated me from the beginning of my experiences growing bulbs was how a Camas seed for example seed germinated on the surface and grows into the ground resulting in a long narrow neck that can be traced to the surface in an undisturbed bulb. A growing process that can be followed year to year. If you only dig the bulbs after they are dormant you might miss another structure, the contractile root, that pulls the young bulb deeper into the soil. Handling young true bulbs by planting at mature depth can result in a poor stand, although shallow in our climate puts in freeze zone. Mulch it. Here is one of my favorite PNW native geophytes, Corydalis scouleri, Scouler's fumewort. Insignificant flowers but ahhh the foliage and the 3 foot tall colonies that thrive in heavy shade of moist mixed forests. http://flic.kr/p/bTJnmT http://flic.kr/p/bEPBj1 and our very common native relative, Bleeding Heart, Dicentra formosa. http://flic.kr/p/bRNnvP Rich H Bellingham, Wa. On May 6, 2012, at 7:52 AM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote > In response to Andrew's question under the subject heading Thelymitra > article I am giving the link again to the wiki page that describes > what we have decided to include on the wiki. The wiki administrators > took some time to discuss and decide this. We decided to be inclusive > rather than exclusive thinking there was benefit in providing > information. As always with such a broad group of possibilities, if > something gets added to the wiki, it is because the person who added > it chose to spend the time doing so. That is why some genera have a > lot of information and photos, others not as much, and probably many > potential genera are not represented at all. All members of this list > can add to the wiki, but it does take a bit of time to learn how to > do it. We really appreciate those people who contribute. From kimcmich@hotmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 11:17:02 -0700 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: What's blooming now - 5/06/12 Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 11:15:49 -0700 Greetings, I think my problem was in trying to format the email as html. Ibiblio seems to want to strip out html formatting (only to add it back-in for the hyperlinks). The bullet-list I was using was getting stripped and that also screwed-up the hyperlinks in each bullet. Is there a way to have the list engine handle plain text and html formatted emails without converting the html emails? -| From: clayton3120 clayton3120 Subject: Washington State Bulb fields Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 13:35:55 -0700 Hi, Well, it's not Holland, but Washington State puts on a nice spring show of bulbs. We actually raise more bulbs commercially than Holland. Much of the crop raised here is sent to Holland for processing, and sent back, all packaged as 'Product of Holland'. Washington Bulb company is the largest producer here, and these fields are their production fields. http://www.flickr.com/photos/76314366@N08/7003573284/in/photostream/http://www.flickr.com/photos/76314366@N08/71496984/http://www.flickr.com/photos/76314366@N08/7003575654/in/photostream/http://www.flickr.com/photos/76314366@N08/7003569860/in/photostream/http://www.flickr.com/photos/76314366@N08/7003625616/in/photostream/97/in/photostream/http://www.flickr.com/photos/76314366@N08/7003631008/in/photostream From s.gage100@hotmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 14:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Shelley Gage Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 07:40:04 +1030 Dear Mary-Sue,Thank you for reminding us of the bulb definition. It is a very clear definition and I was interested to see Xanthorrea included. I will have to work out how to include photos when I have a spare hour or two and post some photos of the ones that flower so magnificently in the bush near here and the Calanthe (used to be triplicata but I can't remember the new name) or Christmas orchid which had a great flowering last Christmas in the rainforest near here too.Shelley > From s.gage100@hotmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 15:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Shelley Gage Subject: What's blooming now - 5/06/12 Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 07:55:03 +1030 Dear Kim,Very exciting. I like the way you have it planted beside a large rock. Is this to give it reserves of heat? or to plant as in nature? I will plant mine this way too eventually. I have a Haemantus clump growing beside a large rock and it grows and flowers very well. Look forward to seeing the flower right out.Shelley Australia From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 15:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 21:50:01 +0000 Xantorrhoea is included? Well, finding a bulb of any sort under it would be as difficult as finding one under Aristea, Dietes, Kniphofia or the Agapanthi. While it is perhaps peculiar to let anybody include whatever they want as a bulb of any sort, the main problem is that most information concerning bulb cultivation do not apply to such plants. It is intriguing why there is any need to include clearly non bulbous plants in the wiki when there are already MANY thousands of bulbs, both species and cultivars to deal with. From othonna@gmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 16:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 15:27:05 -0700 Thanks, Alberto for these points. I tend to think of rootstock morphology mainly, but you are right that cultivation methods are a pertinent consideration. If Xanthorrhoea (!), Anigozanthos, Asclepias and Doryanthes are included, are there any meaningful boundaries as to what defines a geophyte on the wiki? It is difficult enough for the experienced plantsman to discern what is geophytic or not, but what must the beginner must think of the inclusion of plants that are shrubs and perennials to most of us? Dylan On 6 May 2012 14:50, Alberto Castillo wrote: > > Xantorrhoea is included? Well, finding a bulb of any sort under it would > be as difficult as finding one under Aristea, Dietes, Kniphofia or the > Agapanthi. While it is perhaps peculiar to let anybody include whatever > they want as a bulb of any sort, the main problem is that most information > concerning bulb cultivation do not apply to such plants. It is intriguing > why there is any need to include clearly non bulbous plants in the wiki > when there are already MANY thousands of bulbs, both species and cultivars > to deal with. > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- "*Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.*" ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 16:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 22:39:11 +0000 That is exactly the point: WE know the placement of such plants is wrong but we are not an hermetic society of initiated people: the reason for the existence of PBS, IBS, etc. is the flow of accurate information from experienced growers to those with none or little on a given subject. For such information to be of use it must be coherent and reflect reality. From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Sun, 06 May 2012 17:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1336349301.70122.YahooMailNeo@web84501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 17:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Does anyone know who coined the word geophyte? And if so, how was the word defined then? Jim McKenney From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 17:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 00:12:50 +0000 As defined here, any plant part of it is in the ground. Correction, if plants with pseudobulbs are included, any plant part of which is in the ground or in the air. From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Sun, 06 May 2012 18:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1336350014.67654.YahooMailNeo@web84501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 17:20:14 -0700 (PDT) Alberto, by "here" do you mean as defined on the PBSwiki?  That's not what I'm asking about. I'm asking about the first usage of the term. Jim McKenney ________________________________ From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Sun, 06 May 2012 18:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <8f2213$2rahrm@outbound.icp-osb-irony-out7.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: Australian Terrestrial Orchids Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 10:49:12 +1000 At 11:17 PM 6/05/2012, you wrote: >Dear Andrew, There are bulbous orchids like >Calanthe for example and non-bulbous like many >Dendrobiums so I guess they are like any other >group of plants which have bulbous and >non-bulbous forms so I wouldn't imagine this >group discussing all orchids only the bulbous >ones. I will be very interested to see what >others think.I have yet to visit the Western >Australian orchid areas but will one day. There >is an excellent article on them and their >locations in a recent Australian Native Plant >Society magazine.Shelley Gage, SE Queensland, Australia Shelley et al, There are a lot more Aussie terrestrial orchids than just those over in Western Australia. They grow throughout NSW, Victoria, Tasmania, South Australia and I am sure you have some relatively local ones in Queensland too. Pterostylis (or what used to be that genus, now split into a few different ones) grow for me here locally, as do a number of species of Diuris (Donkey Orchids), Corybas (or their associated types that are now in different genuses), Beardies, Flying Ducks, Caladenias, Chiloglottis etc. All these that I mention are tuberous (and all are fully deciduous, dying back to some form of tuber completely buried in the ground) , although some are extremely hard to grow in cultivation. I grow probably 20 different Pterostylis, a dozen or more Diuris, Thelymitras, Chiloglottis, Corybas (badly! ), as well as any other non-Aussie terrestrials that I can ever track down. There are even some Aussie natives like Microtis unifolia that really are just a weed here, popping up in pots all over the place. Now if they were a bit more spectacular that would be great, but they most definitely aren't!! LOL I'm just mentioning this to show that there are a lot more Aussie terrestrials than just those in the west. While some of ours over in the East might not be as breathtaking as some of the western stuff, they are mostly easier to grow, and I still get a lot of pleasure out of them. When the Diuris for example are in flower you really cannot miss them. I remember as a child growing up there was a patch of Diuris on our property (if only we still owned that property, knowing what I know now about cultivating them) that was about 2m x 1m and must have had 200+ flower stems. So beautiful. Now if only I could grow the Beardies and the Flying Ducks? Cheers. Paul T. Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 Min winter temp -8 or -9°C. Max summer temp 40°C. Thankfully, maybe once or twice a year only. Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Galanthus, Terrestrial Orchids, Irises, Liliums, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! From eez55@earthlink.net Sun, 06 May 2012 18:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <380-220125171217750@earthlink.net> From: "Eugene Zielinski" Subject: Gladiolus murielae taxonomy question Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 21:02:17 -0400 Hello Julian. Here is what Dr. Peter Goldblatt has to say about Gladiolus murielae (G. callianthus; Acidanthera bicolor) seed in his book, Gladiolus of Tropical Africa: "Seeds ca. 8 x 5 mm, broadly winged." It doesn't sound like your seeds are from G. murielae. Eugene Zielinski Augusta, GA USA > [Original Message] > From: B & G Julian > To: > Date: 5/7/2012 1:46:02 AM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Gladiolus murielae taxonomy question > > Can any member tell me if Gladiolus murielae sets viable seed and if so > is the seed winged . I received some seeds purported to be this plant > but I am a little dubious as the seed is spherical , about 4.5 mm > diameter and seems to be covered in a blackish/purple skin .Gordon > Julian , Tasmania > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From kimcmich@hotmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 19:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: What's blooming now - 5/06/12 Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 18:38:14 -0700 Greetings, The rock planting is more to provide a good background for the distichous V of leaves than anything (the rock retains a bedding mound behind and above the bulb). I imagine the extra heat does keep the bulb warm on cooler nights (and days) though. -| Dear Kim,Very exciting. I like the way you have it planted beside a large rock. Is this to give it reserves of heat? or to plant as in nature? I will plant mine this way too eventually. From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 20:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: What's blooming now - 5/06/12 Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 02:34:37 +0000 Furthermore, roots will remain comfortably cool during the hottest of summer. From awilson@avonia.com Sun, 06 May 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <17B2ADEE445A4726AB2E3FFB777A6193@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 20:41:27 -0700 Jim, I am not sure what your reason was for asking the question about when the term 'geophyte' was first used but I do know the answer that Merriam Webster provides: 'circa 1900'. Andrew From maxwithers@gmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Max Withers Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 20:50:51 -0700 Jim, Apparently we have the Danes to thank for the various systems of -phytes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_life-form OED's first citation is 1896, an article citing F. W. C. Areschoug. It is interesting in light of the present discussion that geophytes originally fell under "cryptophytes", which would cover most of the not really geophytic taxa that seem to be causing such consternation. Perhaps we should change the name to Pacific Cryptophyte Society! I would only say to Alberto and Dylan and their numerous confreres that you are of course correct -- but what is the harm? More information, even if it isn't strictly on topic, is better, isn't it? I just cannot imagine anything bad happening because the wiki convinced some poor ingenue that Xanthorrhoea is a bulb. Admittedly, I have a casual interest in terrestrial orchids, but if they offended me I would simply refrain from visiting the pages about them. Best, Max Withers Oakland CA On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: > Alberto, by "here" do you mean as defined on the PBSwiki? > > That's not what I'm asking about. I'm asking about the first usage of the term. > > Jim McKenney > > > ________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Sun, 06 May 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <8f2213$2rc81f@outbound.icp-osb-irony-out7.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 13:54:41 +1000 From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Sun, 06 May 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <643dca$9k2038@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out6.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 13:56:32 +1000 At 10:08 AM 7/05/2012, you wrote: >Does anyone know who coined the word geophyte? >And if so, how was the word defined then? Jim, A quick search for "origin of the word Geophyte" on google came up with this link (amongst many others).... http://www.memidex.com/geophytes In the origins bit further down, they say that the word is ancient greek, derived from "Geo" (Earth) + "Phyte" (plant).... so loosely, Earthplant. This origin is mentioned in various sites under that search. That a help? Cheers. Paul T. Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 Min winter temp -8 or -9°C. Max summer temp 40°C. Thankfully, maybe once or twice a year only. Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Galanthus, Irises, Liliums, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 03:58:27 +0000 Provided the information is correct, yes of course. What is the harm in providing right information I wonder? Time ago there was a proposal to change or maintain PBS name. Perhaps Pacific Plant Society would have been the solution, that way no information added would be out of topic. From awilson@avonia.com Sun, 06 May 2012 22:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <28F7DF8392084CF08E4E4A35551246FE@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 21:25:19 -0700 Alberto, With respect to which comment(s) was your response made? Thanks Andrew Alberto Castillo (Sun, 06 May 2012 20:58:27 PDT) Provided the information is correct, yes of course. What is the harm in providing right information I wonder? Time ago there was a proposal to change or maintain PBS name. Perhaps Pacific Plant Society would have been the solution, that way no information added would be out of topic. From othonna@gmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 22:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 21:46:06 -0700 Max asks 'What is the harm in loosely defining "geophyte"?' PBS is a group explicitly dedicated to a particular group that can be reasonably defined and kept within generally predictive bounds. Those bounds serve all visitors to the site and are one of the cornerstones of the Society. The problems in definition here are similar to those encountered in succulent plant societies, where debates emerge as to exactly what is a succulent. Over many decades, a convention has obtained among the latter so that various genera and families are regarded as belonging to the province of succulents, with or without scientific definition. As with bulbs, some honorary members are included because they fit a certain cultural approach, even if actual succulence may be dubious. A good example of pushing the definition (of a succulent), which is also a good example of a crossover to bulbs, is the category of caudiciforms. Often these are *geophytes* with orthodox annual shoots above ground-- the only succulent part of the plant is its rootstock. I have seen very few of these on PBS, e.g., Raphionacme, Monadenium, Talinum, Othonna, Tylecodon, Euphorbia, and many others. I don't know why it is the case that there should be a random sampling of a few orchid genera on the wiki and a few aroids (groups with their own dedicated fan clubs) while these decidedly geophytic succulent genera have been omitted, but it would be good to ad some of the latter to balance the necessarily heavy weight of the petaloid monocots. Inclusiveness is a perfectly good thing when properly considered. Can a definition not be too loose? "Bulbs" as used on the wiki is perhaps primarily a horticultural category. Therefore the boundaries of geophytism will be less strict than in other cases. But plants without proportionately "fat" rootstocks and/or deciduous foliage, such as the grass trees and kangaroo paws and Doryanthes, are simply not geophytes or "bulbs" by any stretch of the imagination. Such errors should be corrected. Instead of asking "What is the harm", better to ask "What is the good?" Dylan On 6 May 2012 20:50, Max Withers wrote: > Jim, > > Apparently we have the Danes to thank for the various systems of -phytes: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_life-form > > OED's first citation is 1896, an article citing F. W. C. Areschoug. > > It is interesting in light of the present discussion that geophytes > originally fell under "cryptophytes", which would cover most of the > not really geophytic taxa that seem to be causing such consternation. > Perhaps we should change the name to Pacific Cryptophyte Society! > > I would only say to Alberto and Dylan and their numerous confreres > that you are of course correct -- but what is the harm? More > information, even if it isn't strictly on topic, is better, isn't it? > I just cannot imagine anything bad happening because the wiki > convinced some poor ingenue that Xanthorrhoea is a bulb. Admittedly, I > have a casual interest in terrestrial orchids, but if they offended me > I would simply refrain from visiting the pages about them. > > Best, > Max Withers > Oakland CA > > > From ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Sun, 06 May 2012 22:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <8f2213$2rcro2@outbound.icp-osb-irony-out7.iinet.net.au> From: "Paul T." Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 15:03:50 +1000 > >I don't know why it is the case that there should be a random sampling of a >few orchid genera on the wiki and a few aroids (groups with their own >dedicated fan clubs) while these decidedly geophytic succulent genera have >been omitted, but it would be good to ad some of the latter to balance the >necessarily heavy weight of the petaloid monocots. Inclusiveness is a >perfectly good thing when properly considered. Dylan, Are you really saying that is something has a dedicated fan club then it shouldn't be included on the wiki? That seems to be your reason for excluding orchids and aroids, at least according to the above paragraph? Or am I reading it incorrectly. That definition would take out Liliums, Galanthus, Trilliums (but if we're only bulbs then they can't be included anyway), Fritillarias, Probably the majority of Amaryllidaceae given I think there is an Amaryllid fan group isn't there..... and the list goes on? And to the discussion in general....... Personally, I don't see why there is a problem including non-bulbs (i.e other geophytes), although there have been some postings on this topic that seem to be saying that we should only be pure bulbs. I guess the purists from a bulb point of view would say that nothing that wasn't a true bulb should be included..... but the one thing I've always like about the PBS is that it isn't so strict and authoritative as some other organisations are/have been. I'm really not at all sure where this discussion is intending to go, other than to try to start an argument about the direction of the PBS? At the moment the wiki is a fantastic resource for so many genera, and I personally don't want to lose that resource? Anyway, apologies for adding to the discussion. I just wanted to try to find out where it was supposed to be heading, so I knew whether to keep reading these topics or just delete them when they arrive. Sorry to have added this one as well to everyone's inbox. Thanks. Cheers. Paul T. Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 Min winter temp -8 or -9°C. Max summer temp 40°C. Thankfully, maybe once or twice a year only. Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Galanthus, Terrestrial Orchids, Irises, Liliums, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! From awilson@avonia.com Sun, 06 May 2012 23:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 22:24:03 -0700 Dear Mary Sue and All, I've taken my time in responding to your posting for it is both an interesting and a difficult question to resolve. However, if I simply navigate through the key within http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/WhatisaBulb it is quite clear from the instructions that we should include orchids that possess a pseudobulb. Perhaps some people, accustomed to seeing orchids at Trader Joe's or, in Europe, in supermarkets are not familiar with the appearance of pseudobulbs. Here is what a Dendrobium speciosum (found in Queensland, primarily) looks like after it has finished blooming: http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewrmw/?uploaded=1&magic_cookie=961373a665f1 f6ac0391b3d83a8f9ec5 Those are the pseudobulbs starting to work on putting shoots and energy together for next year, January here in California. Flowering follows, from then until April, in most years. On this basis I would say that the PBS directions for what constutes a 'bulb' are valid and that an orchid such as this belongs within the discussions at this site. The more difficult question is not technical but, as I pointed out I my posting 24 hours ago, how will inclusion of orchids such as this affect the conversations at this website? I am quite ready to accept the terms defined by the PBS board for 'bulb' and I hope others will do so as well. If we move in this direction I think it should be a move that has the acceptance of a firm majority. Otherwise, the move could lead to division within us. Andrew San Diego From othonna@gmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 23:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 22:33:32 -0700 Paul, You misunderstood me. I had suggested that some succulent geophytes could be included, just as some orchids and aroids have already been included. Dylan From othonna@gmail.com Sun, 06 May 2012 23:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 22:37:41 -0700 Paul, You said "At the moment the wiki isa fantastic resource for so many genera, and I personally don't want to lose that resource?" It is indeed a fantastic resource. Why would you feel that gentle criticism of a few doubtful genera might result in losing it? Dylan From michaelcmace@gmail.com Mon, 07 May 2012 00:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <004501cd2c21$3f975e40$bec61ac0$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: How I stopped worrying and learned to love the bulb Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 00:15:56 -0700 This discussion of the definition of "bulb" is interesting. Sort of. The folks who work on the wiki had a long and very involved discussion about the precise definition of "bulb." For what it's worth, here's what I learned from that conversation: --It is impossible to create a precise and perfect definition for "bulb" for our context, because there will always be a number of plants that qualify in some ways but don't qualify in other ways. --Therefore, you have to use a definition that has some vagueness and flexibility to it. That's what we wrote for the wiki. --It's actually very good to be flexible in the wiki's definition, because when you're running a wiki your most important resource is the enthusiasm of the people contributing to it. If someone is excited enough to write up a genus or species, and it's on the borderline of being in-topic, you include it because you want to reward the contributors. That doesn't mean redwood trees get counted as bulbs, but Xanthorrhoea...well, OK. --By the way, Xanthorrhoea has been in the wiki for quite a while, and the world didn't end. --You don't have to worry about being forced to discuss something here just because it's in the wiki. The list and the wiki are two separate things. If people here don't want to discuss something, they won't discuss it. The conversation will adjust itself naturally. I know there's a natural human desire for precision, but running a wiki (or a discussion forum) is a lot more like playing jazz than playing orchestral music. Enjoy the tunes and don't worry about the sheet music. Mike PS: Paul, I am very jealous of your terrestrial orchids. From petersirises@gmail.com Mon, 07 May 2012 01:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: How I stopped worrying and learned to love the bulb Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 08:23:28 +0100 On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 8:15 AM, Michael Mace wrote: > This discussion of the definition of "bulb" is interesting. Sort of. > > I know there's a natural human desire for precision, but running a wiki (or > a discussion forum) is a lot more like playing jazz than playing orchestral > music. Enjoy the tunes and don't worry about the sheet music. > > Mike > > PS: Paul, I am very jealous of your terrestrial orchids. > > I am full of envy too Paul :))))))))))) Peter (UK) From s.gage100@hotmail.com Mon, 07 May 2012 04:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Shelley Gage Subject: Australian Terrestrial Orchids Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 20:49:57 +1030 Dear Paul, You are right. We do have many examples of terrestrial orchids.- I remember a field trip with the Maryborough Orchid Society some years ago and in two areas not far form my home on coastal woodlands we identified and photographed in flower 14 different orchids as well as a couple of unidentified Pterostylis. Some momths later we went back and found the area ablaze with Diuris which were not in flower on our first visit and added Cryptostylus to our list as well. This was nearly 20 years ago and when I retire I plan to explore the area thoroughly. I am not sure if it is State Forest or National Park but since the area floods I can't imagine it will ever be developed thank goodness. I can send you the list if you are interested. Shelley Gage near Gympie, Queensland, Australia > Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:49:12 +1000 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > From: ptyerman@ozemail.com.au > Subject: Re: [pbs] Australian Terrestrial Orchids > > At 11:17 PM 6/05/2012, you wrote: > > >Dear Andrew, There are bulbous orchids like > >Calanthe for example and non-bulbous like many > >Dendrobiums so I guess they are like any other > >group of plants which have bulbous and > >non-bulbous forms so I wouldn't imagine this > >group discussing all orchids only the bulbous > >ones. I will be very interested to see what > >others think.I have yet to visit the Western > >Australian orchid areas but will one day. There > >is an excellent article on them and their > >locations in a recent Australian Native Plant > >Society magazine.Shelley Gage, SE Queensland, Australia > > Shelley et al, > > There are a lot more Aussie terrestrial orchids > than just those over in Western Australia. They > grow throughout NSW, Victoria, Tasmania, South > Australia and I am sure you have some relatively > local ones in Queensland too. Pterostylis (or > what used to be that genus, now split into a few > different ones) grow for me here locally, as do a > number of species of Diuris (Donkey Orchids), > Corybas (or their associated types that are now > in different genuses), Beardies, Flying Ducks, > Caladenias, Chiloglottis etc. All these that I > mention are tuberous (and all are fully > deciduous, dying back to some form of tuber > completely buried in the ground) , although some > are extremely hard to grow in cultivation. I > grow probably 20 different Pterostylis, a dozen > or more Diuris, Thelymitras, Chiloglottis, > Corybas (badly! ), as well as any other > non-Aussie terrestrials that I can ever track > down. There are even some Aussie natives like > Microtis unifolia that really are just a weed > here, popping up in pots all over the place. Now > if they were a bit more spectacular that would be > great, but they most definitely aren't!! LOL > > I'm just mentioning this to show that there are a > lot more Aussie terrestrials than just those in > the west. While some of ours over in the East > might not be as breathtaking as some of the > western stuff, they are mostly easier to grow, > and I still get a lot of pleasure out of > them. When the Diuris for example are in flower > you really cannot miss them. I remember as a > child growing up there was a patch of Diuris on > our property (if only we still owned that > property, knowing what I know now about > cultivating them) that was about 2m x 1m and must > have had 200+ flower stems. So beautiful. Now > if only I could grow the Beardies and the Flying Ducks? > > Cheers. > > Paul T. > Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9 > Min winter temp -8 or -9°C. Max summer temp 40°C. > Thankfully, maybe once or twice a year only. > > Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all > over the world including Aroids, Crocus, > Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Galanthus, > Terrestrial Orchids, Irises, Liliums, Trilliums > (to name but a few) and just about anything else that doesn't move!! > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From bulborum@gmail.com Mon, 07 May 2012 04:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Pacific bulb Society BX 309 Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 13:09:21 +0200 Addition to: 19. Colchicum corsicum ? I collected this seeds in Corsica probably Colchicum corsicum but flowers not seen Roland -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon, 07 May 2012 07:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 13:39:28 +0000 No harm in discussing any interesting plant provided OUT OF TOPIC is added to it. If the PBS definition permits the inclusion of orchids with pseudobulbs then it has to be revised. They are common herbaceous perennials like Achilleas or Tradescantias and most do not even shed their foliage. What do they have to do with bulbs, corms and tubers, horticulturally? There is a good number of orchids that are "bulbs" like Bletilla, Dactylorhiza, Orchis, Ophrys, Serapias and hundreds of Australian Diuris, Corybas, Pterostylis and the like. Here in South America we have many woody plants that naturally grow with part of the trunk buried in the ground. This is a mechanism to cope with fires as the new growth sprouts from this protected buried portion. They qualify as geophytes, i. e. bulbs if we keep on splitting hairs. My question is, are there so few bulbs that we must include plants that only dragged by the hairs could belong in the world's most important bulb society? From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon, 07 May 2012 07:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1336399242.25514.YahooMailNeo@web84509.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 07:00:42 -0700 (PDT) Andrew wrote: "I am not sure what your reason was for asking the question about when theterm 'geophyte' was first used but I do know the answer that Merriam Webster provides: 'circa 1900'." Thanks, Andrew, I have not hit the dictionaries yet.  I was asking to try to establish a sense of what the term meant originally and of  how it has varied over the years (if in fact it has). Also, it would be significant (I think) if the term had originally been coined for use in a particular context.   I've always assumed (and might very well have been wrong all along) that the term geophyte was originally introduced as a sort of dodge to get around the ambiguities which had come to be associated with the meaning and application of the term bulb. Is there a gardener among us who does not remember when some more worldly gardener issued a reprimand when a crocus corm was called a bulb?  Jim McKenney From dkramb@badbear.com Mon, 07 May 2012 07:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Canna flaccida, surprise hardiness Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:10:21 -0400 So this wasn't the coldest winter for Cincinnati, but I have a surprise to report. Canna flaccida that I grew from BX seed survived its first winter outdoors, in pots, ABOVE ground. I had so many extra seeds that I was willing to sacrifice these to test their hardiness. Imagine my surprise! Another surprise is that my tropical Canna hybrids that grew from self-sown seeds are coming back for their 2nd year in the ground next to the house. They're literally inches away from the house, so obviously getting enough warmth to enable them to over winter. (The parent plants died their first winter, and they were located 2 feet from the house.) Maybe this year they'll be big enough to bloom? Thanks Dr. Jim for donating these Bandana of the Everglades seeds! :-) From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon, 07 May 2012 07:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1336399971.27486.YahooMailNeo@web84508.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 07:12:51 -0700 (PDT) Paul wrote: " they say that  the word is ancient greek, derived from "Geo"  (Earth) + "Phyte" (plant).... " Paul, I mean this fondly, not maliciously: no, Paul, that is not a help. If the Greek word geo means Earth, then wouldn't all plants which grow on the planet Earth be geophytes? I don't think that's where we want to be with this.  Also, I don't think the word geophyte is ancient Greek. It's a modern word cobbled together from Greek roots or stems.  Jim McKenney From bonsaigai37@aol.com Mon, 07 May 2012 07:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <8CEFA72C0A55C36-A84-1338@webmail-m071.sysops.aol.com> From: bonsaigai37@aol.com Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:13:47 -0400 (EDT) Andrew wrote: "I am not sure what your reason was for asking the question about when theterm 'geophyte' was first used but I do know the answer that Merriam Webster provides: 'circa 1900'." As far as I know, Raunkiær wrote a treatise of plant morphology in about 1907 and used the word geophyte as a subclass of cryptophyte. It's early but may not be the first mention. Michael Interlaken, NY Zone 6 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon, 07 May 2012 08:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1336401131.5886.YahooMailNeo@web84502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 07:32:11 -0700 (PDT) I think taking the broad minded approach to the question of the meaning of the word "bulb" in the name of the Pacific Bulb Society makes good sense. People with a background in formal botany might quibble, but the simple truth is that botany does not own the word "bulb", and the majority uses it in the very broad sense.  Does there exist a class of people so refined that they on the one hand are aware of the formal definition of "bulb",  but on the other hand are not aware that in general usage it might have a different meaning? I don't think so. Yet there are plenty of people who are clueless about the formal distinction between a bulb and a corm, and there are plenty of people whose enjoyment of gardening will not be improved a bit when they come to understand the distinctions being made.  In contrast to that, I think it's very important that the content of the wiki be accurate;  that's where it's important to either observe best current practice of formal botany or to call attention to reasonable disagreements among responsible parties.  I'm all for getting the facts (or what pass as facts in this area) out there, but there is such a thing as taking ourselves too seriously, isn't there? Jim McKenney  From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon, 07 May 2012 08:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1336401144.22061.YahooMailNeo@web84514.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 07:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Reply to Pacific Bulb Society ________________________________ From: AW To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 12:25 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] What is a bulb? Alberto, With respect to which comment(s) was your response made? Thanks Andrew Alberto Castillo (Sun, 06 May 2012 20:58:27 PDT) Provided the information is correct, yes of course. What is the harm in providing right information I wonder? Time ago there was a proposal to change or maintain PBS name. Perhaps Pacific Plant Society would have been the solution, that way no information added would be out of topic. From dkramb@badbear.com Mon, 07 May 2012 08:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Sarracenia (and Iris) Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:34:08 -0400 My Sarracenia are absolutely flourishing. I've had them now for just over 2 years, since constructing the bog bed in Feb. 2010. Sarracenia flava var. rugellii was the first to bloom, starting in late April. Sarracenia leucophylla is just now sending up bloom stalks. Oh, and the pitchers are also finally opening too. (I hope they don't catch their pollinators!) I'm curious if anyone who obtained my Sarracenia seeds from the BX last year has had any germination yet? I haven't looked carefully, but I didn't notice any Dionaea or Drosera when I casually inspected the bed over the weekend. It's possible they've died out (or are just being overcrowded). Dennis in Cincinnati PS: To my surprise both Iris fulva and Iris tridentata are THRIVING in the nutrient poor bog bed alongside the Sarracenia. Iris fulva just started blooming. From dkramb@badbear.com Mon, 07 May 2012 08:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:41:27 -0400 My favorite bulb is the compact fluorescent. The energy & cost savings are tremendous over the traditional incandescent. AND they help me grow my BX seedlings to maturity more quickly! Like my Canna flaccida that I referenced earlier. I sowed them in January under CFL and they bloomed their first season. ;-) Dennis in Cincy (who doesn't understand any of this fuss about "bulbs") From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon, 07 May 2012 08:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Sarracenia (and Iris) Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 14:53:52 +0000 Dennis, are these irises true material from the wild? Of Iris fulva one usually obtains garden material that could not represent the true species since this Sections hybridizes so readily. From dkramb@badbear.com Mon, 07 May 2012 08:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Sarracenia (and Iris) Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 11:12:27 -0400 They're the true species. Iris tridentata isn't known to hybridize with other species, in part because it blooms in July when most other species bloom in May & June. And this particular Iris fulva is in the trade in USA as "fulva dwarf". It is very short, but otherwise completely typical of the species. I don't have the provenance of its heritage, though. The only wild (beardless) Iris in my collection that I have provenance for is my Iris brevicaulis because it came from a wild population about 15 miles away from my home. Dennis in Cincinnati On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Alberto Castillo wrote: > > Dennis, are these irises true material from the wild? Of Iris fulva one > usually obtains garden material that could not represent the true species > since this Sections hybridizes so readily. > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon, 07 May 2012 09:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1336404533.66502.YahooMailNeo@web84512.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 08:28:53 -0700 (PDT) There are orchids which to my senses fit the PBS scheme well: Pleione, for instance. These fit the criteria of " bulb" in the broad sense very well. BTW, to me the structures from which Pleione grow are corms.  I've never understood how tree peonies got on the wiki, but that does not in any way diminish my appreciation of those accounts now that they are there (and in some bulb catalogs!). We bulb growers are in a sense a sub-set of the gardening public. When we venture away from bulbs, we bring with us our knowledge of bulb culture. We often solve our gardening problems in terms of what we've learned as bulb growers. So if a successful bulb grower wants to talk about growing tropical evergreen epiphytic orchids, I take a look at what they have to say. There might be something there I can adapt to my practices. For instance, there is a guy successfully growing Lilium in Hawaii; I think he's growing them in orchid pots with lots of lava rock. Will that be the solution to growing them here through a stifling Maryland summer?  In a sense, these squabbles about what is and what is not a bulb are a red herring. If we want the wiki to be a resource for people who think they are growing "bulbs", then it makes good sense to be very accepting about which plants qualify. Whom do you want to listen to, the  person successfully growing Pamianthe or Worsleya on a slab of bark under orchid culture or the frustrated nit-picker who wants to insist that such plants are actually not geophytes (because they are not growing in the ground)  but rather lithophytes or epiphytes or phloeophytes ("bark-o-phytes")? And there is another side to this: many of us look to the wiki to keep informed about changes in nomenclature. There are genera of plants some of whose members are truly bulbous and some of whose members are not. When I look to the wiki, I'm glad to see the non-bulbous sorts included in discussions of nomenclatural changes.  Isn't one of the reasons we have these discussions over and over that gardeners mistakenly tend to imbue these distinctions (i.e.the distinction between a bulb and a corm, or between a geophyte and an epiphyte and so on)  with taxonomic significance? We expect a true geophyte's relatives to be geophytes, but that's not necessarily the case.  Jim McKenney From xerantheum@gmail.com Mon, 07 May 2012 11:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:18:58 -0700 Thanks to all who have added to this conversation. This topic comes up once in a while, and we usually settle to a similar conclusion as already stated by several people. For fuzzy taxa that don't quite fit our wiki definition, we only include them if they don't belong to a group of plants that have many people dedicated to them and where lots of good resources and cultural information are already available. The succulents belong to this group. I think the wiki generally picks up weird taxa that don't quite fit into any one group's interest. Despite this, we still get good hits on these pages. This brings us to Dylan's question: > I don't know why it is the case that there should be a random sampling of a > few orchid genera on the wiki and a few aroids (groups with their own > dedicated fan clubs) while these decidedly geophytic succulent genera have > been omitted, but it would be good to ad some of the latter to balance the > necessarily heavy weight of the petaloid monocots. > The random sampling all has to do with people interested in working on the pages. It's the same with omission, we didn't omit them on purpose, but they appear omitted because no one had create a page for them. If anyone has an interest in their group (say geophytic succulents) the wiki space is open. And finally, why not orchids with pseudobulbs? The "pseudobulb" on the Whatisabulb page refers to fleshy pseudobulbs such as those found in Crinum and Ismene. When we get to epiphytic orchids, there's a whole world out there with many, many societies (almost one in every major city) and many dozens of forums. With so much resources and human power dedicated to them, the PBS wiki does not need to be involved and we have decided to focus its power generally on geophytes. And another reason for exclusion is that the majority of them would never survive the cultural treatments that we use to grow most bulbs. Nhu From jgglatt@gmail.com Mon, 07 May 2012 14:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <4FA82FF9.90508@gmail.com> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: Sonatini Hippeastrum Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 16:26:33 -0400 Does anyone grow these? Where did you source them? Dainty Dwarf Hippeastrum Judy, still plugging away at web site entries. Have arrived at Palais Het Loo on April 24. Three entries should do it. Next, Gardens of Apeltern. Then, finally, the Floriade. From davbouch5@aol.com Mon, 07 May 2012 14:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <8CEFAA7B08913F3-2230-44F7@webmail-m032.sysops.aol.com> From: davbouch5@aol.com Subject: Sarracenia (and Iris) Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 16:32:43 -0400 (EDT) Hi Dennis I got both the Sarracenia and Dionaea seeds from the SX. I planted them and refrigerated for 3 months. Both germinated last month: 2 fly traps and 3 pitcher plants. How about some seed from the species?? Aloha! David Boucher Hawaii -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Kramb To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Mon, May 7, 2012 4:34 am Subject: [pbs] Sarracenia (and Iris) My Sarracenia are absolutely flourishing. I've had them now for just over 2 years, since constructing the bog bed in Feb. 2010. Sarracenia flava var. rugellii was the first to bloom, starting in late April. Sarracenia leucophylla is just now sending up bloom stalks. Oh, and the pitchers are also finally opening too. (I hope they don't catch their pollinators!) I'm curious if anyone who obtained my Sarracenia seeds from the BX last year has had any germination yet? I haven't looked carefully, but I didn't notice any Dionaea or Drosera when I casually inspected the bed over the weekend. It's possible they've died out (or are just being overcrowded). Dennis in Cincinnati PS: To my surprise both Iris fulva and Iris tridentata are THRIVING in the nutrient poor bog bed alongside the Sarracenia. Iris fulva just started blooming. From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon, 07 May 2012 17:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Sarracenia (and Iris) Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 23:58:44 +0000 Many thanks, Dennis From awilson@avonia.com Mon, 07 May 2012 18:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <8A8AB6DB8C8B4FF7B88402A3A662AA93@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 17:44:07 -0700 Dear Nhu Nguyen, I was totally surprised by your most recent posting. It seemed to be in flat contradiction with the key in 'What is a Bulb', inserted to define what was acceptable to PBS as a bulb. I thought that was meant to provide the defining word here. Question 2 of the key says: "2. Is the plant generally recognized to grow from some sort of thickened storage organ (a bulb, tuber, corm, thickened rhizome, thickened root, or fleshy pseudobulb)? In other words, would scientists call it a geophyte? If the answer is yes, we include it. If no, go to question 3". Thus, the presence of a thickened storage organ is a criterion for acceptance, which means that orchids possessing fleshy pseudobulbs are accepted. If you have subsquently decided not to include them you had better correct the key. I wrote a message here yesterday showing an orchid with a massive set of fleshy pseudobulbs. It would certainly be far closer to what we think of as a clump of bulbs than so many other genera considered here. Indeed the pseudo bulbs do look comparable to your example of 'Crinum and Ismene'. Living atop granite outcrops the orchid cited uses its massive pseudobulb system to store water during the long, cool dry season. If the preference of PBS to eliminate such plants, so be it, but you then really do need to reformulate 'what is a bulb'. Andrew San Diego From othonna@gmail.com Mon, 07 May 2012 19:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 18:24:52 -0700 Dear Andrew, My understanding has always been that the term "geophyte" directly implies that the plant in question has some connection to the earth (*soil*) by way of perennating buds that see it through an unfavorable (dry or cold) season. If we say that these buds must be subterranean, which they typically are, in a strict sense then we lose plants that obviously belong with our other friends, such as Worsleya, Bowiea, etc. Whether epiphytes can be geophytes (!) is an interesting area to explore and it would not be so intimidating a subject if the orchids were excluded. In the case of the pseudobulbous orchids the storage organ strategy is not typically dependent on any earthen refugium and so to call them geophytes is in error I think. This contrasts with terrestrial orchids with 'tuberoids' of course, which fit the definition of a geophyte very well. As Nhu mentions, the radical cultural differences between terrestrial bulbs and epiphytic orchids are also significant. If there is agreement in this area then you are right that "pseudobulb" should be deleted from the key. The term pseudobulb is never applied to any plants except certain orchids as far as I know-- if it is applied to Crinum &c this should be explained and documented in the key. Beyond these points I think Nhu is absolutely correct that it is best to avoid including more than a sampling orchids in light of the massive support they receive already from many scientific, hobbyist and commercial groups. For growers who may be still forming their ideas of what a "bulb" is, which task is a priority for the PBS it seems to me, it is instructive to see tuberous terrestrial orchids on the wiki and I think this helps to show that the concept of a "bulb" (geophyte) transcends many plant families. Terrestrial orchids with pseudobulbs like Pleione are problematic in this regard but what else is new? Dylan On 7 May 2012 17:44, AW wrote: > Dear Nhu Nguyen, > > I was totally surprised by your most recent posting. It seemed to be in > flat > contradiction with the key in 'What is a Bulb', inserted to define what was > acceptable to PBS as a bulb. I thought that was meant to provide the > defining word here. Question 2 of the key says: "2. Is the plant generally > recognized to grow from some sort of thickened storage organ (a bulb, > tuber, > corm, thickened rhizome, thickened root, or fleshy pseudobulb)? In other > words, would scientists call it a geophyte? If the answer is yes, we > include > it. If no, go to question 3". > > Thus, the presence of a thickened storage organ is a criterion for > acceptance, which means that orchids possessing fleshy pseudobulbs are > accepted. If you have subsquently decided not to include them you had > better > correct the key. > > I wrote a message here yesterday showing an orchid with a massive set of > fleshy pseudobulbs. It would certainly be far closer to what we think of as > a clump of bulbs than so many other genera considered here. Indeed the > pseudo bulbs do look comparable to your example of 'Crinum and Ismene'. > Living atop granite outcrops the orchid cited uses its massive pseudobulb > system to store water during the long, cool dry season. If the preference > of > PBS to eliminate such plants, so be it, but you then really do need to > reformulate 'what is a bulb'. > > Andrew > San Diego > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- "*Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.*" ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton From xerantheum@gmail.com Mon, 07 May 2012 20:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 19:44:12 -0700 I think the keyword here is "fleshy". I would hardly consider the canes of a Dendrobium fleshy. Nhu On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 5:44 PM, AW wrote: > recognized to grow from some sort of thickened storage organ (a bulb, > tuber, > corm, thickened rhizome, thickened root, or fleshy pseudobulb)? > From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Mon, 07 May 2012 22:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <5FBE4A9A-42A8-4BBD-BD1B-9C55F88E54A1@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 21:33:12 -0700 I personally love the 4 item key that PBS developed that Mary Sue referenced. It accords extremely well with my purely non-technical, but avidly hobbyist idea of what I seek to grow in my "bulb" collection", especially items 2 and 3. I've never grown Pleiones, but I have grown Bletilla and I first grew it from a package of Bletilla "bulbs" that I bought one year at the same time that I bought several packages of other "bulbs" at my local mainstream nursery long ago. They were all sold in the same section of the nursery and the sign labeled the section as "bulbs". I buried them all in pots fill with potting mix and they all started growing leaves and eventually bloomed, and thus was born my initial interest in "bulbs"! (Those other "bulbs" were cannas and Ismene, probably x festalis, but I didn't know that at the time.) As my collection (and my bulb lusts) grew, there were certain genera where I wanted to grow every species of them that I could get my hands on. Even after I discovered that some of the species actually didn't have a "bulb" I could plant in the soil, I still wanted it as a "bulb" because I wanted the "whole collection", so to speak. Then I learned that a lot of what I liked, and grouped in my mind and in my collection as "bulbs", all belonged to a small handful of families. So those entire families have become "bulb" families in my mind and in my collection--these families include the amaryllids and the irids for example, both of which I seem to like almost every genus and species included in them. As this question has popped up again and again over the years, I've at times become concerned that some "bulbs" I really, really, like would have to be "demoted" from being "bulbs" in my mind, kind of like Pluto being kicked out of the planet club. So I have been very grateful to learn that quite a number of them are listed as having that catch-all feature called a rhizome, and thus could continue to be "bulbs" in my collection! I love when the wiki mentions this. It's one of my best mental defenses when someone disses one of my favorite "bulbs" as not being enough of a geophyte to even loosely consider it a "bulb". (For example, kangaroo paws, especially the black one, Macropidia fuliginosa, which along with Anigozanthos are both listed as "growing from a rhizome".) I don't know that I've ever seen a Xanthorrhoea, so I can't say if it would hit me as being in the "bulb" family. But I did get to see a Doryanthes in bloom on one occasion, and even though it was gigantic, the "bulb"-lust part of my brain really wants to get and try growing one one of these days--when I can find enough room to plant one somewhere... Another example that just screams "bulb" at me is Xeronema callistemon; luckily it is also listed as "growing from a rhizome". Yay! So I love the fact that PBS has decided to include bulbs, bulb-like geophytes, honorary "bulbs", and even orchids such as Bletilla, which will always be a "bulb" to me. Oh, and I just looked up Doryanthes which is listed as having both a rhizome _and_ forming evergreen bulbs around the mother plant. Yay again! --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a Latitude 34°N, Altitude 1150 ft/350 m From awilson@avonia.com Mon, 07 May 2012 22:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <8BB3E1AC863F44D3AD7E260BF9C50E00@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 21:44:31 -0700 Then perhaps you did not see the image I posted? Andrew I think the keyword here is "fleshy". I would hardly consider the canes of a Dendrobium fleshy. Nhu On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 5:44 PM, AW wrote: recognized to grow from some sort of thickened storage organ (a bulb, tuber, corm, thickened rhizome, thickened root, or fleshy pseudobulb)? From awilson@avonia.com Tue, 08 May 2012 01:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <33789212519749F78C58BC3F299000E0@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 00:24:02 -0700 Dear Dylan, Your response to my comments contained several statements. I'll try to respond to each of them. Because an epiphyte is not growing in soil as we conventionally think of it, that does not mean that it obtains no nutrients from the epiphytic root structure than it has developed. Where else can its nutrients have come from? Its leaves, unlike those of some tillandsias, do not supply the plant with most of its nutrients. Examine the humus (in nature, I mean, not on your bench) in which the orchids we're talking about are growing. I'll grant you that the mineral content is very low but it has all the nutrients needed to feed the plant. It may not form a very thick layer but it's a soil, just as the decayed vegetation of a forest is a soil. Its root structure creates a matrix in which vegetation falling from above, gets lodged, decays and feeds the roots. The next point your raised was that Nhu had argued that the cultivation methods for terrestrial bulbs and and epiphytic orchids were radically different. While the cultivation methods do indeed differ, they are not radically different (no pun intended). Some of my bulbs are grown in a soil mix used also for the orchids, and do well in it. In any case, since when did the requirement for non-radically different methods of cultivation raise its head in PBS? I should have thought this is the one feature that brings together here so many diverse people! Your last point was a non-technical one - Nhu's consideration to exclude orchids because other groups take care of them. I can accept that as policy if that is the policy adopted by PBS. As a policy it would need to be declared somewhere, perhaps in the 'What is a Bulb' section. Regards, Andrew San Diego From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Tue, 08 May 2012 05:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 12:14:57 +0000 Crinum and Ismene and many others have pseudoNECKS but they have true bulbs. From othonna@gmail.com Tue, 08 May 2012 08:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: What is a bulb? Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 08:07:09 -0700 *Pseudostem* is the term normally used. Scadoxus provides good examples. On 8 May 2012 05:14, Alberto Castillo wrote: > > Crinum and Ismene and many others have pseudoNECKS but they have true > bulbs. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- "*Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.*" ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton From jim.marti.mc@gmail.com Tue, 08 May 2012 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4FA966DC.5030409@gmail.com> From: Jim & Marti McManus Subject: Stargazer black slimy top Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 11:33:00 -0700 Hi. I'm new to your site, and a neophyte lily grower. I've looked for a cause of my problem online with no luck. Hoping you might have an answer. I live in Oregon, near Salem. I bought 3 Stargazer bulbs about five years ago. The first year they bloomed nicely, but every year since, the most vigorous shoot has looked healthy until maybe a week or two before I would expect it to bloom. Then, starting at the tip, it turns black and slimy looking. This black "rot" works its way 6-8 inches down the stalk, then it just slowly deteriorates and never blooms. It almost looks like someone took a blow torch to it. The leaves below look normal and green. No insects or larvae are evident. The less-vigorous shoots usually haven't bloomed, but just look puny. Last year there was one sad looking bloom, maybe a month later than expected. The foliage on those shoots didn't look very healthy, but I don't remember details of that. Our soil is heavy with clay and only moderately well draining. I replaced about 8" of the soil with purchased soil 8-10 years ago, which turned out to be quite sandy. It grows daffodils, hardy fuchsias, coneflowers, and several other species beautifully. So far this year the one stalk looks great. Any thoughts? Thanks, Marti From munrosj27@yahoo.com Tue, 08 May 2012 18:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1336523094.52817.YahooMailNeo@web162402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: stephen munro Subject: Fritillaria affinis in Puget Sound country Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:24:54 -0700 (PDT) The past couple of weekends I have been happy to find Fritillaria affinis unexpectedly at two fairly different locales on and close to Puget Sound in western Washington State.    The first location was at a county park in Olympia.  The park has a nice stretch of beach along the Budd Inlet and this is where I found a large patch of these bulbs.  They were growing in almost complete shade on the east slope of a cliff.  The west side of the cliff faced the beach.  They were growing more or less alone and the only plant associates nearby were Douglas Fir  and Madrone (Pseudotsuga and Arbutus menziesii ).  The park in places is smothered by weeds  but this area was more or less clear of them. Interestingly there is a large country park sign right in front of them. Perhaps this has kept them from being dug or picked since it obscures them?   The second location was at a prairie preserve near Tacoma about fifteen miles from Puget Sound and perhaps 300-500 ft elevation.  The tree associate nearby was the Oregon White Oak or Garry Oak (Quercus garryana).  A few affinis were growing under one of these trees but the vast majority were found growing amongst a native shrub. Two clumps of shrubs predominated with the grasses and these were Oregon grape (Mahonia or is it Berberis? aquifolium) and Snowberry (Symphiocarpus albus).  No bulbs were found among the Snowberry  but they were found among the Oregon grape.  The latter provided enough open space for the affinis to grow (mostly in full sun) and the prickly foliage may afford protection from deer.  This reminds me of a time I found an immense Fritillaria recurva at a county park in Jackson County, Oregon growing through a clump of twisted barb wire.    I neglected to bring my camera on both occasions but I hope this illustrated the different habitats F. affinis was found in.    Best,    Stephen Munro Seattle         ________________________________ From: Alberto Castillo To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 5:14 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] What is a bulb? Crinum and Ismene and many others have pseudoNECKS but they have true bulbs.                         From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue, 08 May 2012 19:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Fritillaria affinis in Puget Sound country Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 18:38:11 -0700 Fritillaria affinis (which older books describe under its former name F. lanceolata) is probably the most widespread of the American Fritillaria species, and not surprisingly, one of the easiest to grow. It ranges from coastal habitats such as Stephen Munro described, to mid elevations in the Cascades and California mountains. California populations sometimes have fairly pale flowers, but mostly these fritillaries are green checkered in purple-brown, or even very dark. I find that it likes pretty good drainage, but not an arid situation, although in summer some populations experience considerable drought -- but remember that their bulbs are deep underground. For some years I've grown F. affinis 'Wayne Roderick', which is one of several triploid forms found along the Central California coast. Ed Rustvold of Berkeley gave me a form from Nicasio Reservoir, which is very stout but has flowers more like the typical ones. 'Wayne Roderick' has massive, deep purple flowers that are really square in outline. I also have a "dwarf" form grown from seed collected by Phyllis Gustafson in the Siskiyou Mountains, which flowers at only about 4 inches (10 cm) tall. I had a form from seed collected by the Robinettes near the southern limit of the species' range in California, which had chartreuse flowers, but I lost it in a very cold winter. The triploids are sterile but produce many "rice grain" offsets, and so they're widely distributed among growers. Seeds collected on Vancouver Island and sent to an exchange as F. camschatcensis proved to be a rather short form (8 inches/20 cm) of F. affinis. Seeds I collected on the lower slope of Mount Hood, near my home, produce stems about 12 inches/30 cm tall. This is one of a group of Pacific Coast fritillaries that includes F. recurva, F. micrantha, F. ojaiensis, F. eastwoodiae, and F. viridea. The natural hybrid of F. affinis and F. recurva is known as F. gentneri. I've grown seedlings from a cross of F. gentneri x F. eastwoodiae. The latter was sometimes thought to be a natural hybrid of recurva x micrantha, but it is found in some areas where neither of those grows. F. ojaienses is from southern California and has oddly shaped pale green flowers; F. viridea, also southern Californian, has tiny starry green flowers and is in bloom now, along with F. recurva. All of these are relatively tall plants which, as Stephen observed, tend to grow in scrub where the deer can't eat them. Recurva, gentneri, and eastwoodiae are popular because of their colorful flowers, which range from crimson to pale orange. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon From frewintp@gmail.com Wed, 09 May 2012 02:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: terry frewin Subject: Australian Terrestrial Orchids Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 18:52:14 +1000 Hello Paul and Shelley - to put my two bobs worth in about our lovely terrestrial orchids, I have a very similar range as you Paul, plus Hyacinth, Gastrodia and the rare and it is thought endemic, Violet Town Spider orchid (*Caladenia *species affinity *rosella *(Violet Town). They may not be as colourful as their cousins in the west but are very delicately beautiful all the same. I've never tried to grow any beyond a couple of Pterostylus species, but I doubt they're easy. I'd be interested in your list Shelley, for any future trips north. Terry On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Paul T. wrote: > Shelley et al, > > There are a lot more Aussie terrestrial orchids > than just those over in Western Australia. They > grow throughout NSW, Victoria, Tasmania, South > Australia and I am sure you have some relatively > local ones in Queensland too. > -- terry frewin 661 upper boho road boho 3669 03 5790 8635 0429 908 635 From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed, 09 May 2012 09:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Camassia 'Sacajewea' Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 10:43:45 -0500 Dear Friends, A week or so ago I posted about the first bloom of these bulbs. They were planted late in the year and were the last of all Camassia in here in Kansas City to bloom. Now they are producing many full flower spikes and I guess I never read the full description and they are WHITE. I think so much emphasis has been put on the variegated foliage (the color has disappeared already) and less mention of flower color. Since we have no other white Camassia this is an added bonus of variety. These came from Brent and Becky as end of season specials. Very nice and a bargain. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed, 09 May 2012 09:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Tulipa sprengeri Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 10:48:21 -0500 Dear Friends, Some of you may moan-not this again, but I have written about this species often and still have little success in growing this bulb. It confounds me. I just got seed from the BX and will try yet again. In looking around the web I saw a suggestion that sprengeri requires 'Acid sand' for best growth. Is this true? My garden is alkaline and clay. Am I doomed to failure? Could I grow these in a separate trough? Does anyone have spare bulbs to trade ? I'll try these newest seeds in a sandy acid mix just to get some seedlings to try in the garden, but I am feeling the whole idea is doomed. DOOMED! Appreciate some expertise about soil, pH requirements or even anyone with success in similar clay soils and Zone 5/6 conditions. Maybe they are just too tender for here. Thanks Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed, 09 May 2012 09:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Bletilla 'Kate' Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 10:51:33 -0500 Dear Friendss, I've grown Bletilla striata for years. Last year I got a couple plants of a new selection called 'Kate'. It was advertised as having more flowers, longer blooming etc. Typical catalog 'hype'. Well I kept the pot in my cool greenhouse for winter and planted it out a month or so ago. It has been in bloom continuously with six to nine spikes of flowers. It continues to put up more flower spikes even now. I am very impressed, but it has yet to go through a Zone 5/6 winter. Does anyone grow this and have any success stories? Many thanks Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From nate.raingreen@gmail.com Wed, 09 May 2012 09:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nate Benesi Subject: Crinum 'Bradley' dormant aspect?? Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 08:53:19 -0700 Hello, Does *Crinum* 'Bradley' show an above ground "neck" or above ground bulbs when its goes dormant? Is the plant a winter grower, e. g., does it begin vegetative growth upon the fall rains, in Mediterranean climates? Thanks, Nate From oldtulips@gmail.com Wed, 09 May 2012 09:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Rimmer de Vries Subject: Muscari ID Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 12:02:40 -0400 Hi is there a simple way to tell the difference between Muscari commosum and Muscari dionysicum, or is it just size and bloom time? pants and seeds received under each name look the same to me except that M. dionysicum has a "cap" to the tips of the leaves. is there anything else to distinguish? Thanks Rimmer de Vries SE Michigan Zone 7 (this year) From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Wed, 09 May 2012 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1336580445.98916.YahooMailNeo@web87403.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Tulipa sprengeri Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 17:20:45 +0100 (BST) >    I just got seed from the BX and will try yet again. In >looking around the web I saw a suggestion that sprengeri requires >'Acid sand' for best growth. > >    Is this true?   Grows well and seeds around here on well drained loam over chalk.   Maybe it's your clay it dies not like.   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8ish From alanidae@gmail.com Wed, 09 May 2012 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alani Davis Subject: Crinum 'Bradley' dormant aspect?? Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 13:15:38 -0400 Hello Nate Bradley will "lose its neck" above ground during the winter if you have cold enough winters and I know it can survive in Zone 6. The neck is replaced by the new leaf growth. Alani Davis On May 9, 2012 10:53 AM, "Nate Benesi" wrote: From michaelcmace@gmail.com Wed, 09 May 2012 11:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <004701cd2e0d$90a41f60$b1ec5e20$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Stargazer black slimy top Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 11:00:04 -0700 Hi, Marti. Welcome to the PBS list! I hope somebody with real lily expertise will have a thought for you. Unfortunately, I am not that person; my climate in California is a bit dry in the summer for lilies, and although I tried them a lot in the past, it was too hard to keep them going over the years, so I moved on to other things. So all I can do is give you general advice, and hope it helps a little. The symptoms you're having sound unusual. The most common diseases you read about in lily websites like this (http://www.lilyflowerstore.com/lily-care/common-issues-and-lily-diseases.ht ml ) are botrytis and basal rot. All the photos I've seen for botrytis show attacks starting at the bottom of the plant (due to spores splashing up from the soil?) or show the whole plant engulfed. And basal rot attacks the bulb. I presume you've dug up the bulb when dormant and it's not damaged, right? Based on your symptoms, I'd assume that the disease is happening at the tip of the plant, but you can't be sure of that. I have seen cases in other bulb species where the plant tips die or wither due to damage at the root level (root damage = not enough water going into plant = parts of plant furthest from roots die or are vulnerable to secondary infection). You'll think the problem is at the tip, but actually it's underground. That could be happening to you -- do the tips wilt first and then turn black, or do they go straight from healthy to black? But even if root damage is the cause, it could be due to either too much or too little water, or to some pathogen in the soil. So who knows where this is coming from. If we don't get a lily expert chiming in with a real diagnosis, I would be very tempted to treat the plant now with one of the systemic fungicides you can get in a general nursery. If this is a fungus, that treatment will hopefully protect both the roots and stems. (Of course, a bottle of fungicide might cost more than the price of that lily. Your call.) Good luck, and I'm sorry I don't have more specific advice. Mike San Jose, CA From totototo@telus.net Wed, 09 May 2012 13:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FAA65BB.3569.91D520C@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Camassia 'Sacajewea' Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 12:40:27 -0700 On 9 May 2012, at 10:43, James Waddick wrote: > A week or so ago I posted about the first bloom of these > bulbs...they are WHITE. I think so much emphasis has been put on the > variegated foliage (the color has disappeared already) and less > mention of flower color. Since we have no other white Camassia this > is an added bonus of variety. What species of camas is 'Sacajewea' supposed to be? We have two camas here on southern Vancouver Island: C. quamash and C. leichtlinii ssp. suksdorfii. Years ago I used to prowl around neglected corners of the city where these grew and found a number of pure white and pale blue specimens of the latter, but never the former. Some of these whites and pale blues were translated into the garden. Once or twice I've seen plants that appeared from a passing car to be pink, but never when I could get a good look at them to be sure just what color they were. Unfortunately camas appear to be weedy in my climate, so I have a thicket of the silly things now. They set copious seed and the seed germinates freely. Since their bulbs go down to China, they're nearly impossible to get rid of. I have learned to turn a blind eye and just enjoy the flowers when they come out. PS: C. leichtlinii is one of those plants that confuse novice bulb lovers as the type of the species in the formal botanical sense (C. leichtlinii leichtlinii) hales from around Roseburg, Oregon, and is pale yellow. The more common deep blue-purple form found further north thus became a subspecies, even though it is more typical in the ordinary sense. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From totototo@telus.net Wed, 09 May 2012 13:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FAA65BB.9076.91D5222@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Tulipa sprengeri Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 12:40:27 -0700 On 9 May 2012, at 10:48, James Waddick wrote: > Some of you may moan-not this again, but I have written about this species > often and still have little success in growing this bulb. It confounds me. > > I just got seed from the BX and will try yet again. In looking around the web > I saw a suggestion that sprengeri requires 'Acid sand' for best growth. Is > this true? I don't think so. As pictures from my garden on the wiki show, T. sprengeri grows very freely for me. In fact it would be fair to call it a weed except for the minor details that it doesn't choke anything else out and I like it very much. My soil is unamended, fairly heavy, poorly drained, and probably on the acid side. It is not, however, that horrible sticky clay that is derived from the blue marine clay that is distressingly common on southern Vancouver Island. Rather, it appears to be clay laid down as sediment as the glaciers melted: heavy but not sticky when wet, and below the surface horizon of a blonde color when dry. Reconstruction of a big storm sewer last fall of a big storm sewer that runs across my property showed this "good" clay deposit is nine or ten feet thick. Underneath it is the sticky blue "bad" clay. > My garden is alkaline and clay. Am I doomed to failure? Could I grow these > in a separate trough? I suspect you are doomed, DOOMED! I tell you! But quite possibly because this tulip cannot tolerate the hot humid summers you get. > Does anyone have spare bulbs to trade ? If we were in the same city, I'd invite you over to dig your own. I have more than enough, including one of those foot-cube plastic milk crates full of bulbs rescued before the storm sewer work began. > I'll try these newest seeds in a sandy acid mix just to get some seedlings > to try in the garden, but I am feeling the whole idea is doomed. DOOMED! Yes, you are probably DOOMED!, DOOMED! I tell you. > Appreciate some expertise about soil, pH requirements or even anyone with > success in similar clay soils and Zone 5/6 conditions. Maybe they are just > too tender for here. I'm zone 7 or thereabouts. It's not uncommon here for the roses to be blooming on Christmas Day, though by no means every year. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Wed, 09 May 2012 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: David Pilling Subject: Stargazer black slimy top Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 21:11:17 +0100 In message <004701cd2e0d$90a41f60$b1ec5e20$@gmail.com>, Michael Mace writes >ml ) are botrytis and basal rot. All the photos I've seen for botrytis >show attacks starting at the bottom of the plant (due to spores splashing up Sometimes, when it is wet for weeks on end, the growing point at the top of the lily is where the rot starts - because that is where the water accumulates. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net From btankers@gmail.com Wed, 09 May 2012 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Boyce Tankersley Subject: Tulipa sprengeri Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 15:25:38 -0500 Hi Jim: They grew well in a raised bed at Chicago Botanic Garden until the Chipmunks discovered them. Well composted soil so I 'think' the pH was closer to neutral than we normally have. beautiful bulb, don't give up! Wish we had some to share. Boyce Tankersley > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From ang.por@alice.it Wed, 09 May 2012 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <137335363c2.ang.por@alice.it> From: "ang.por@alice.it" Subject: Tulipa sprengeri Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 22:38:52 +0200 (CEST) I want also to ask if people in Southern California or similar climates have any luck in growing Tulipa sprengeri. I haven't so far, the late flowering in my climate means it require lot of water and the flowering have been very short lasting with deformed flowers. Jim , I too have alkaline soil here, but rather sandy. Angelo Porcelli Apulia - Southern Italy From msittner@mcn.org Wed, 09 May 2012 16:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <20120509225535.E87C8E8665@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Tulipa sprengeri Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 14:00:53 -0700 I'm not Southern California but I have some seedlings that are dwindling, but aren't gone yet. Partly because of Rodger's praise I've tried this from seed four times, exceeding the Tony Avent 3 times rule. The first three times I lost whatever came up by the second or third year. The fourth time I had better germination so it's taking longer to lose them. Of the 24 seedings that came up 14 months later, I still had 10 last fall. I've kept them dry in soil in shade when dormant in our cooler summers. They get watered when we start getting rain in late fall. But they are slow to come up. This year they came up in April. Like Angelo, by then the rain has slowed down usually and the temperatures are getting warmer so you'd have to start watering. So far I've seen no flowers, deformed or otherwise. Hopefully they are big enough now that I can prechill them and see if that helps. Mary Sue From michaelcmace@gmail.com Wed, 09 May 2012 17:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <010901cd2e42$11acd0f0$350672d0$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Crinum question Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 17:15:55 -0700 Folks, This question came in over the transom to the wiki. Does anyone have an answer to it? Thanks, Mike ===== >Subject:Crinum \'Bradley\' dormant aspect??? Hello, Does the Crinum \'Bradley\' develop a false stem/show bulbs above ground or does it disappear after going dormant with the leaves trimmed off? Thanks, Nate From richrd@nas.com Wed, 09 May 2012 18:17:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3A610AB6-A10D-4021-B627-F554BF1E9684@nas.com> From: Richard Subject: C.l.suksdorfii Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 17:44:28 -0700 Hi Roger Here is Camassia leichtleinii ssp suksdorfii grown at our farm seed source Lummi Rocks, a pure stand, that i have been growing at our farm many years. Colors vary on this island from pure white the a pale blue and a deep blue (purple). We are also growing a Oregon ss Camassia leichtleinii from seed obtained from a nursery in Oregon (Williamette Valley ss). http://flic.kr/p/KM5oQ Here is the 'pale yellow' Camassia leichtleinii ssp leichtleinii image taken 2 weeks ago near Roseburg, Oregon. I've noticed before in the area but this time driving around back roads in the area it does indeed dominate the local plants. http://flic.kr/p/bVptAu Thanks for pointing this out. Rich Haard, Bellingham, Wa. From jim.marti.mc@gmail.com Wed, 09 May 2012 19:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <4FAB2241.30804@gmail.com> From: Jim & Marti McManus Subject: Stargazer black slimy top Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 19:04:49 -0700 Thanks, Mike. You're the second to suggest waterlogged bulbs. Bought some copper fungicide today: will treat the bulbs and plant in a better-drained location. Appreciate your thoughts. Marti On 5/9/2012 11:00 AM, Michael Mace wrote: > Hi, Marti. > > Welcome to the PBS list! > > I hope somebody with real lily expertise will have a thought for you. > Unfortunately, I am not that person; my climate in California is a bit dry > in the summer for lilies, and although I tried them a lot in the past, it > was too hard to keep them going over the years, so I moved on to other > things. > > So all I can do is give you general advice, and hope it helps a little. > > The symptoms you're having sound unusual. The most common diseases you read > about in lily websites like this > (http://www.lilyflowerstore.com/lily-care/common-issues-and-lily-diseases.ht > ml ) are botrytis and basal rot. All the photos I've seen for botrytis > show attacks starting at the bottom of the plant (due to spores splashing up > from the soil?) or show the whole plant engulfed. And basal rot attacks the > bulb. I presume you've dug up the bulb when dormant and it's not damaged, > right? > > Based on your symptoms, I'd assume that the disease is happening at the tip > of the plant, but you can't be sure of that. I have seen cases in other > bulb species where the plant tips die or wither due to damage at the root > level (root damage = not enough water going into plant = parts of plant > furthest from roots die or are vulnerable to secondary infection). You'll > think the problem is at the tip, but actually it's underground. That could > be happening to you -- do the tips wilt first and then turn black, or do > they go straight from healthy to black? But even if root damage is the > cause, it could be due to either too much or too little water, or to some > pathogen in the soil. > > So who knows where this is coming from. If we don't get a lily expert > chiming in with a real diagnosis, I would be very tempted to treat the plant > now with one of the systemic fungicides you can get in a general nursery. > If this is a fungus, that treatment will hopefully protect both the roots > and stems. > > (Of course, a bottle of fungicide might cost more than the price of that > lily. Your call.) > > Good luck, and I'm sorry I don't have more specific advice. > > Mike > San Jose, CA > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From michaelcmace@gmail.com Wed, 09 May 2012 20:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <011c01cd2e53$c42477e0$4c6d67a0$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Crinum question Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 19:22:35 -0700 Whoops! I just realized I had reposted a question that was already being discussed. Sorry about that; I need to pay better attention. Mike From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Wed, 09 May 2012 20:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Stargazer black slimy top Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 02:26:28 +0000 You should check the condition of the roots to discard the presence of nematodes. From nate.raingreen@gmail.com Wed, 09 May 2012 23:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4fab5108.4524b60a.2b66.02d3@mx.google.com> From: "Nate" Subject: Crinum 'Bradley' dormant aspect?? Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 22:24:20 -0700 Thanks Alani, I'm in Los Angeles where most Crinums don't frost. The reason I asked the question is because I design very dry gardens where I would expect the C. Bradley to defoliate in summer (as its parent C. flaccidum would in habitat). I want for there to be an indicator that the plant is there. So it sounds like your saying it does form a "neck". Thank you, Nate From petersirises@gmail.com Thu, 10 May 2012 00:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Tulipa sprengeri Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:07:48 +0100 Tulipa sprengeri sends it's bulbs down very deep, (in Britain). It is late up and the last tulip to flower. Allowed to go to it's natural depth I don't see why it would need to be waterd even in dry summer areas. Perhaps you could try growing it in a cooler position instead.. I gave up growing it in a pot. Do you water the later flowering Calochortus with deep bulbs? I have found them awkward in pots too.... Peter (UK) On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 10:00 PM, Mary Sue Ittner wrote: > They get watered when we > start getting rain in late fall. But they are slow to come up. This > year they came up in April. Like Angelo, by then the rain has slowed > down usually and the temperatures are getting warmer so you'd have to > start watering. > From alanidae@gmail.com Thu, 10 May 2012 06:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alani Davis Subject: Crinum 'Bradley' dormant aspect?? Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 07:40:54 -0400 Nate I am in Tallahassee Florida where even a "dry" summer is wet compared to your conditions generally so Crinum flaccidum hybrids including Bradley don't go full dormant for me in the summer but they do slow down and stop producing new foliage especially when mid summer is intense and drier. During the peak of drought Bradley has lost all the foliage but always the neck remains, so you should have the marker you are looking for. Alani Davis Tallahassee, Fl From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu, 10 May 2012 07:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: leichtleinii - Sacajewea ? Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:03:51 -0500 >Rich Haard wrote: > Here is the 'pale yellow' Camassia leichtleinii ssp >leichtleinii image taken 2 weeks ago near Roseburg, Oregon. >I've noticed before in the area but this time driving around back >roads in the area it does indeed dominate the local plants. >http://flic.kr/p/bVptAu Dear Friends, After the various discussions of Camassia here and another closer look at my late blooming 'Sacajewea', I am convinced it is a pale creamy flowered form with spring variegated foliage. The picture referenced above is 'barely yellow' and 'Sacajewea' is paler still. The question was posted as to what species 'Sacajewea belongs too. I understood it to be C. leichtleinii, but the picture is dead on. I'm convinced. Best Jim W. ps Although Camassia l. does well here and I have now three forms- typical violet, blue and cream - so far I get no seed produced. I can see why this would be if each color form was self-sterile, and perhaps the three are too spread out across my acre garden to reduce the chance of cross pollination. Just curious. Hope someone will donate seed from wild populations to the PBS Seed Ex. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu, 10 May 2012 07:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Crinum bulbispermum display Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:14:02 -0500 Dear PBS ers, I have to brag a bit about my current abundance of Crinum bulbispermum. This is a species I have now grown for well over a decade originally form seed of 'Jumbo', from Marcelle Shepard. I now have some older plants which I find are pupping and creating very large clumps. I had understood the C. bulbispermumm was slow , reluctant or just did not pup. Although this was the case for a number of years, slowly older plants have built up into substantial clumps. One clump currently has 6 stems in full bloom and it is glorious. As flowers open ear white and age to near red, a full palette of shades is present right now with many more to open. I planted a half dozen young seedlings a year or two ago and these are aalmst all producing one of two flowering stalks each on first bloom this year. I can understnad why commercial growers would 'push' C. x powellii for an introductory Crinum in cold climates. It pups like crazy, quite hardy through Zone 5 and reliable bloom. C. bulbispermum has MUCH nicer , more open flowers and with time pups, too. Both can be grown with deep initial planting and minimal to no winter mulching. Last year I dug out one of my older clumps of C. x powelli and continue to reduce the plants of this species in the garden . Although always easy to give away I feel sort of bad knowing it is not as good an example of a hardy Crinum as I should be pushing. If anyone in Zone 5 has wondered about growing a truly hardy Crinum, I cannot emphasize C. bulbispermum too much. Seeds are almost always donated to the Seed Ex. Germination and growth are easy and fast, but seedlings need winter protection the first winter or two; then planted deep in their permanent location they will reward the gardener with years of increased bloom and growth. More to bloom - wonderful. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Thu, 10 May 2012 07:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Tulipa sprengeri Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:19:50 -0500 > >I suspect you are doomed, DOOMED! I tell you! But quite possibly because this >tulip cannot tolerate the hot humid summers you get. > >> Does anyone have spare bulbs to trade ? > >If we were in the same city, I'd invite you over to dig your own. I have more >than enough, including one of those foot-cube plastic milk crates >full of bulbs >rescued before the storm sewer work began. Dear Roger, Thanks for your note of confidence. Although I do feel doomed, I know I CAN grow sprengeri. I did have three blooming bulbs I grew from NARGS seeds years ago and loved them all. I decided they needed a better sunnier spot so moved them and they all failed to return. I'd gladly raid your garden for bulbs, but a bit on inconvenience, you see. I'll try again with the latest Seed Ex seed (from Peter T) and struggle on. I am not DOOMED, must think positively. Thanks Jim -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu, 10 May 2012 10:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Camassia Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 09:33:14 -0700 Rich Haard wrote, >Here is Camassia leichtleinii ssp suksdorfii grown at our farm seed >source Lummi Rocks, a pure stand, that i have been growing at our >farm many years. Colors vary on this island from pure white the a >pale blue and a deep blue (purple). We are also growing a Oregon ss >Camassia leichtleinii from seed obtained from a nursery in Oregon >(Williamette Valley ss). >http://flic.kr/p/KM5oQ > >Here is the 'pale yellow' Camassia leichtleinii ssp leichtleinii >image taken 2 weeks ago near Roseburg, Oregon. >I've noticed before in the area but this time driving around back >roads in the area it does indeed dominate the local plants. The freeway I-5 runs down the middle of the Willamette Valley in Oregon, and this time of year it's interesting to note the continuum of color forms in Camassia leichtlinii (note spelling) in the roadside ditches. As you go south, populations change from deep blue-purple to paler blue to near-white. As far as I know, the only C. leichtlinii form in commerce is the semi-double greenish-white form, called, I think, 'Alboplena'. I'm surprised the deep blue ones aren't widely grown, but in fact I don't grow them myself, never having managed to stop by the right spot in the road when they were in seed, if the Highway Department had not mowed them down before that. I do grow several forms of C. quamash and C. cusickii. Like other correspondents, I find the forms that emerge with variegated foliage don't keep the variegation. The one I have is 'Blue Melody'. Recently a PBS member was here and noticed the very large, mid-blue form of C. quamash, subsp. maxima, which I grew from seed identified as 'Puget Blue'. There is also a small commercial clone 'Orion' with very narrow leaves, and a short one, subsp. breviflora, grown from seed collected near the Oregon-California border. All these plants enjoy sites that are moist to wet in winter and spring, but they can dry out later. They go dormant by mid-July and self-sow readily where suited, such as in the "rain gardens" (bioswales) that are now being promoted in this area to curb runoff. I had to install one of these features in order to get planning permission for my bulb house, and the camasses are very happy in it, as is Fritillaria camtschatcensis. The construction of a "rain garden" is pretty labor-intensive because of the deep excavation and layers of material; I hired a crew with a Bobcat (small excavating machine) to do it. Its downhill side is surrounded by a berm that is suitable for other kinds of plants, and a "bulb lawn" (currently annoying the neighbors until it's ready to mow) is downhill of that, today featuring the later-flowering Scilla species and, of all things, Gladiolus tristis. I just threw baskets of leftover bulbs in under the sod and left them to their own devices. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From hornig@oswego.edu Thu, 10 May 2012 10:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Ellen Hornig Subject: Camassia Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 13:11:20 -0400 Has anyone mentioned the pink form of C. leichtlinii yet? The owner of the former Buggy Crazy nursery developed a strain of beautiful pinks. I first saw these in my friend Hitch Lyman's garden, and ordered some for myself, just in time, before the nursery closed. Today I planted out the few bulbs I was able to find, dig and pot up before our move to Massachusetts. I also have a pot of seedlings coming along - seed production is copious, and the seeds very easy to grow. For anyone who likes camassia, this color form is well worth tracking down. Ellen > -- Ellen Hornig 212 Grafton St Shrewsbury MA 01545 USDA zone 6 (?) From petersirises@gmail.com Thu, 10 May 2012 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Crinum bulbispermum display Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 19:34:10 +0100 On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 2:14 PM, James Waddick wrote: > Dear PBS ers, > Last year I dug out one of my older clumps of C. x powelli > and continue to reduce the plants of this species in the garden . > In the interests of maintaining correct public information; I understand that Crinum x powellii is a HYBRID between two SPECIES, (which I believe are C. bulbispernum and C. moorei) Peter (UK) > > From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Thu, 10 May 2012 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1336674968.89673.YahooMailNeo@web87406.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Camassia Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 19:36:08 +0100 (BST) Avon Bulbs, in the UK, and at Malvern Show this weekend, will no doubt be showing their "Stellar Hybrids" which tend towards dusky pink. http://www.avonbulbs.co.uk/s/camassia-leichtlinii-avon-s-stellar-hybrids/59/Product.aspx   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8ish >________________________________ > > >Has anyone mentioned the pink form of C. leichtlinii yet?  The owner of >the former Buggy Crazy nursery developed a strain of beautiful pinks.  I >first saw these in my friend Hitch Lyman's garden, and ordered some for >myself, just in time, before the nursery closed. Today I planted out the >few bulbs I was able to find, dig and pot up before our move to >Massachusetts.  I also have a pot of seedlings coming along - seed >production is copious, and the seeds very easy to grow.  For anyone who >likes camassia, this color form is well worth tracking down. > >Ellen > From petersirises@gmail.com Thu, 10 May 2012 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Fritillaria affinis in Puget Sound country Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 20:03:12 +0100 interesting observations on the Frit. Stephen, I think it is Mahonia aquifolium, unless you 'lump' Mahonia in with Berberis. It is possible to produce Mules called mahoberberis which I believe are sterile but widely available On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 1:24 AM, stephen munro wrote: > The past couple of weekends I have been happy to find Fritillaria affinis > unexpectedly at two fairly different locales on and close to Puget Sound in > western Washington State. > Two clumps of shrubs predominated with the grasses and these were Oregon > grape (Mahonia or is it Berberis? aquifolium) and Snowberry (Symphiocarpus > albus). No bulbs were found among the Snowberry but they were found among > the Oregon grape. > From pelarg@aol.com Thu, 10 May 2012 15:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <8CEFD0A5BD98BF5-1D68-1CB1D@web-mmc-d06.sysops.aol.com> From: pelarg@aol.com Subject: Camassia Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 17:24:04 -0400 (EDT) Like Ellen, I've grown the pink form from Lisa (Buggy Crazy) for some years, they are reliable and really are a pale pink shade. They are quite beautiful, but tend to open best in the late afternoon and stay thru the next morning, they are not at their best in the early -mid afternoon on sunny days. I collected some seed and sowed it in a plastic windowbox of potting mix left out to stratify (there are other spp in there too) and now have some small seedlings. I have not noticed any self sowing yet in my garden. I think Telos nursery carries it now, but I know of no other source, it is definitely worth growing. I have a striped leaf blue flowered form of a smaller species from Lisa as well, it came in a box of mixed small bulbs she was selling on ebay (under Going Crazy). I love surprises, and for a very nominal price I have gotten some nice daffodils, three or four kinds of colchicums, a broadiea, and the striped leaved camassia from her mix. I also have the double white one but is is not really all that pretty, and the flowers seem to have aborted this year. A blue,green leaved tall one also grows in another garden, I am hopelessly confused on their nomenclature having never seen them in the wild and not seeing obvious differences between them other than size at first glance. One day I will sit down and try to sort them out. Of all of them, I enjoy the pink one the most. Ernie DeMarie Tuckahoe NY Z7 but was technically Z8 this past winter The first flower bud is appearing on one of three hybrid gerbera that made it thru this mild winter with soil filled containers placed on top of their crowns as their only protection. From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Thu, 10 May 2012 22:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <58E86D09-BAB8-421C-BA58-808B242A1657@gmail.com> From: Steven Subject: Crinum 'Bradley' dormant aspect?? Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 14:51:35 +1000 Hi Nate, i agree with Alani, i have lots of C. Bradley & mine do not go dormant I'n my moist summer at all. But I'n my dry winters they do go semi dormant & leave a prominent stem. The bulbs of flaccidum species tend to have underground bulbs, but i tend to like to leave the baseball size bulbs exposed at the surface, because i like the look of it. They seem quite happy. I also find deeper planted bulbs are more likely to go into greater dormancy & are more likely to loose the trunk during dormancy I'n my conditions. Steven : ) Esk Queensland Australia Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 On 10/05/2012, at 9:40 PM, Alani Davis wrote: > Nate > I am in Tallahassee Florida where even a "dry" summer is wet compared to > your conditions generally so Crinum flaccidum hybrids including Bradley > don't go full dormant for me in the summer but they do slow down and stop > producing new foliage especially when mid summer is intense and drier. > During the peak of drought Bradley has lost all the foliage but always the > neck remains, so you should have the marker you are looking for. > > Alani Davis > Tallahassee, Fl > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From nate.raingreen@gmail.com Thu, 10 May 2012 23:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <4facaa42.ae9a3c0a.08e2.ffff8eb7@mx.google.com> From: "Nate" Subject: Crinum question Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 22:57:20 -0700 Thanks for posting my question I realized after I emailed PBS that I should have posted my question to the list so I did!!! Sorry for the confusion Nate From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri, 11 May 2012 08:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Camassia Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 09:26:46 -0500 > Like Ellen, I've grown the pink form from Lisa (Buggy Crazy) for >some years, they are reliable and really are a pale pink shade. >They are quite beautiful, but tend to open best in the late >afternoon and stay thru the next morning, they are not at their best >in the early -mid afternoon on sunny days. Dear Ernie and others. Thanks for the info on this pink flowered Camassia. I am sorry to hear about the problems of Buggy Crazy (just reviewed the site - too late to order). I see Telos does still carry this so I've added it to the list. Thanks to all who commented on the topic. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From dkramb@badbear.com Fri, 11 May 2012 09:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Iris × flavescens Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 11:56:37 -0400 My patch of Iris × flavescens is in massive full bloom right now. There must be 50 flowers. This is the best display I've seen in my garden. Their companion plant, Thermopsis caroliniana, is about to burst into bloom as well. These will give way to other prairie plants later in the season (Echinacea, Silphium, etc.). And the hillside patch of Iris × flavescens growing wild along the highway (I-75) near my office is now getting crowded out by trees. For the last 12 years I watched them bloom like crazy, but the view is finally getting obscured. Oh, and the hummingbirds are definitely back. I love May! :-) Dennis in Cincinnati From totototo@telus.net Fri, 11 May 2012 10:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4FACD8F8.18856.B20CF@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Camassia Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 09:16:40 -0700 On 10 May 2012, at 9:33, Jane McGary wrote: > As far as I know, the only C. leichtlinii form in commerce is the > semi-double greenish-white form, called, I think, 'Alboplena'. That alboplena to me looks much like a double of the type form. I'd call a pale dirty yellow. I have a very dark form here that was given to me by my one-time gardener that appears to be a selection of C. leichtlinii ssp. suksdorfii. But I don't remember its name other than a dim recollection that it was named after a female Royal somewhere, likely one of the Dutch royals. It's a good form. It sets seed (though not copiously) so my stand of it, though isolated from my jungle of locally collected pale forms and their progeny, is probably no longer genetically pure. Any moment I expect ethnic cleansing to break out between the purebreds and the mongrels. Jane's further comments about growing camas in a sump came as welcome news. The storm sewer construction has led to the creation of a large bed that DOES NOT DRAIN, thanks to idiot constuction dudes running a big excavator over wet clay, and I've been at my wits' end trying to think what I can plant that that will tolerate the conditions thus created. I see a "moving of the camas" in my near future. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From ksayce@willapabay.org Fri, 11 May 2012 13:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: amaryllis seedlings Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 13:09:11 -0700 A couple of years ago I received Amaryllis belladonna seeds from PBS's seed exchange in a variety of colors (white, light pink, dark pink). I think they were from Michael Mace. My question is: when are the bulbs large enough to survive outside in zone 8? Two inches wide? Or? Right now I have them in my cold frame, where they are growing on nicely; in fact they don't go dormant at all in there. I have not turned them out of their pots to see how big the young bulbs are, and will do so when and if they go dormant this summer. Kathleen Kathleen Sayce PNW Coast, WHZ 8, dryish cool summers & mild wet winters From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Fri, 11 May 2012 16:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: amaryllis seedlings Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 22:19:28 +0000 If so, do it carefully as amaryllids hate to have their tiny hair roots disturbed, as Peter Taggart explained here days ago. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri, 11 May 2012 18:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Camassia Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 17:28:03 -0700 Rodger wrote >Jane's further comments about growing camas in a sump came as >welcome news. The >storm sewer construction has led to the creation of a large bed that DOES NOT >DRAIN, thanks to idiot constuction dudes running a big excavator >over wet clay, >and I've been at my wits' end trying to think what I can plant that that will >tolerate the conditions thus created. No, this is a misunderstanding. The "rain garden" or bioswale DOES drain. It is constructed by excavating a hole about 4 feet deep and laying in layers of various materials (I believe we used pea gravel, coarse sand, and vegetable compost, but NO MANURE, along with the local clay). It is NOT COMPACTED. I have almost never seen any water standing on the surface. The whole point of it is to soak away excess runoff to prevent it getting into the storm drains -- the county didn't care that there are no storm drains on this road, of course. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From randysgarden@gmail.com Fri, 11 May 2012 19:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Randall P. Linke" Subject: Camassia Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 19:10:23 -0700 > > > No, this is a misunderstanding. The "rain garden" or bioswale DOES > drain. We've always referred to this as a French drain. Very helpful in some of California's hardpan areas for giving the water a chance to "soak in" and avoid having one's yard turn into a mud pit. Randy, California From richrd@nas.com Fri, 11 May 2012 22:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <582A2FEA-BBB8-45F7-AEBF-E0CDB07838E9@nas.com> From: Richard Subject: Camassia Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 21:23:09 -0700 Angela Nelson, an engineer, who worked at our nursery while a student wrote an article for our catalog about rain gardens, their design and species lists for the PNW. While there is zonation in the rain garden itself however with our climate here in western Washington that is wet winters and summer drougth the perennial species in her list are those found in summer dry prairies. Her article, Rain Gardens: A Low Tech Approach to Stormwater Management can be found here http://fourthcornernurseries.com/articles/nelson.html Rich Haard, Bellingham, Wa On May 11, 2012, at 5:28 PM, Jane McGary wrote: From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri, 11 May 2012 22:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Worsleya availability Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 23:44:21 -0500 Dear Friends, Years ago I obtained a lovely seedling of Worsleya from Australian friends. It grew for yearss and I won't relate its sad end, but I am thinking about it again. I may be 'ready'. Are seedlings available anywhere in the US or through any of the members of this group? Recently a picture of a beautifully grown plant in bloom was posted on a face book page and it 'got to me'. Appreciate any thoughts. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From klazina@orcon.net.nz Fri, 11 May 2012 23:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <4FADFB96.1020605@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: amaryllis seedlings Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 17:56:38 +1200 I know nothing about the zoning survival for these. I did grow seedlings of the 3 main shades over the last 2 years. Planted out the seedlings into the garden (zone 10) when they were about 6 months old. These went dormant this summer and are now coming away well. Why I mention that is that as yours have not gone dormant at all, would they need hardening off slowly before introducing them into the garden? Ina Crossley. On 12/05/2012 8:09 a.m., Kathleen Sayce wrote: > My question is: when are the bulbs large enough to survive outside in zone 8? Two inches wide? Or? > > Right now I have them in my cold frame, where they are growing on nicely; in fact they don't go dormant at all in there. -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From s.gage100@hotmail.com Sat, 12 May 2012 06:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: Shelley Gage Subject: Australian Terrestrial Orchids Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 23:23:25 +1030 Dear Terry,Here is the list of orchids at the first location. We visited there in April 1993 so goodness knows what is there now.Genoplesium acuminatumEriochilus cucullatusPterostylus nutansPterostylus ophioglossaAcianthus fornicatusLiparis habenarinaGeodorum densiflorumCaladenia carneaCaladenia caternataThelymitra paucifloraLyperanthus suaveolensGenoplesion archeriGenoplesium pumilumArthrochilus irritablisI can't find the list for the second location which was a few kilometres away but I have an annotation to say there were 9 orchids there. Alan Dokrill who was revising Pterostylus at the time was with us and there were a number of knowledgeable orchid people as well for I would never have been able to identify so many without their expertise.I visited the area to show friends a month later and instead of fairy orchids everywhere it was Diurus. I plan to spend some time in the area when I retire in a couple of years. When I come across the photos from this trip I will try to post them.Shelley > Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 18:52:14 +1000 > From: frewintp@gmail.com > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] Australian Terrestrial Orchids > > Hello Paul and Shelley - to put my two bobs worth in about our lovely > terrestrial orchids, I have a very similar range as you Paul, plus > Hyacinth, Gastrodia and the rare and it is thought endemic, Violet Town > Spider orchid (*Caladenia *species affinity *rosella *(Violet Town). They > may not be as colourful as their cousins in the west but are very > delicately beautiful all the same. I've never tried to grow any beyond a > couple of Pterostylus species, but I doubt they're easy. I'd be interested > in your list Shelley, for any future trips north. Terry > > > > On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Paul T. wrote: > > > Shelley et al, > > > > There are a lot more Aussie terrestrial orchids > > than just those over in Western Australia. They > > grow throughout NSW, Victoria, Tasmania, South > > Australia and I am sure you have some relatively > > local ones in Queensland too. > > > > > > -- > terry frewin > 661 upper boho road > boho 3669 > 03 5790 8635 > 0429 908 635 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From santoury@aol.com Sat, 12 May 2012 07:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <8CEFE5DBF1788AC-20A0-23228@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Worsleya availability Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 09:53:29 -0400 (EDT) I see them on Ebay now and again. Jude From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat, 12 May 2012 10:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Calochortus monophyllus Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 10:00:07 -0700 I hope some of our California native plant experts can answer this question. I have a dozen or so plants identified as Calochortus monophyllus in flower here. My only accession of this species was seed from Robinetts in 1993, but I may have grown seed of those subsequently without recording it. Some of the plants in bloom are typical flowers with brown markings above the nectary and somewhat round petals, but others are entirely yellow with no markings, and the petals are more pointed. I read in the description that the markings can be faint and the petal shape variable, but I see no indication that markings can be entirely absent. The unmarked-flower plants are definitely not C. amabilis (which I also grow), and I'm pretty sure they're not C. pulchellus. I'm basing this on the distribution of the petal hairs. Are there populations of C. monophyllus without dark markings? Or is it possible that some of my plants are hybrids between monophyllus and amabilis? The two were growing in close proximity in my former bulb frames, and there were plenty of bees around. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From steyrhahn@yahoo.com Sat, 12 May 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1336843547.72006.YahooMailNeo@web121706.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: "Randy.R" Subject: Worsleya availability Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 10:25:47 -0700 (PDT) One sold on ebay a couple weeks ago for $300US.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/280865113410   I bought a seedling of crinum luteolum from the same seller who seems to be a well known amaryllis collector and breeder.   There is a yahoo forum dedicated to Worsleya that I followed for a brief period. There does appear to be a source in S. America that has seeds from time to time. You'll see his posts on the yahoo forum. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Worsleya_procera/   Randy.R From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Sat, 12 May 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <410-220125612173918625@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: Worsleya availability Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 13:39:18 -0400 Jim, Try Bruce at Tropicalworld in Delray Beach Florida Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA PS. I killed the first Ae-Ae pup From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sat, 12 May 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Calochortus monophyllus Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 17:57:31 +0000 And C. raichei? From frewintp@gmail.com Sat, 12 May 2012 14:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: terry frewin Subject: Australian Terrestrial Orchids Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 06:20:06 +1000 Thanks Shelley for the list - I'm fortunate too in that we have a highly regarded botanist not long moved into the area plus I have a friend who is a member of an Aust. orchid group so between the two we have a wonderful resource for id-ing any mystery indigenous plants, bulbs, lilies, orchids etc. Photos would be lovely when found! Terry On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 10:53 PM, Shelley Gage wrote: > > Dear Terry,Here is the list of orchids at the first location. We visited > there in April 1993 so goodness knows what is there now.Genoplesium > acuminatumEriochilus cucullatusPterostylus nutansPterostylus > ophioglossaAcianthus fornicatusLiparis habenarinaGeodorum > densiflorumCaladenia carneaCaladenia caternataThelymitra > paucifloraLyperanthus suaveolensGenoplesion archeriGenoplesium > pumilumArthrochilus irritablisI can't find the list for the second location > which was a few kilometres away but I have an annotation to say there were > 9 orchids there. Alan Dokrill who was revising Pterostylus at the time was > with us and there were a number of knowledgeable orchid people as well for > I would never have been able to identify so many without their expertise.I > visited the area to show friends a month later and instead of fairy orchids > everywhere it was Diurus. I plan to spend some time in the area when I > retire in a couple of years. When I come across the photos from this trip I > will try to > post them.Shelley > > Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 18:52:14 +1000 > > From: frewintp@gmail.com > > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Australian Terrestrial Orchids > > > > Hello Paul and Shelley - to put my two bobs worth in about our lovely > > terrestrial orchids, I have a very similar range as you Paul, plus > > Hyacinth, Gastrodia and the rare and it is thought endemic, Violet Town > > Spider orchid (*Caladenia *species affinity *rosella *(Violet Town). > They > > may not be as colourful as their cousins in the west but are very > > delicately beautiful all the same. I've never tried to grow any beyond a > > couple of Pterostylus species, but I doubt they're easy. I'd be > interested > > in your list Shelley, for any future trips north. Terry > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Paul T. > wrote: > > > > > Shelley et al, > > > > > > There are a lot more Aussie terrestrial orchids > > > than just those over in Western Australia. They > > > grow throughout NSW, Victoria, Tasmania, South > > > Australia and I am sure you have some relatively > > > local ones in Queensland too. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > terry frewin > > 661 upper boho road > > boho 3669 > > 03 5790 8635 > > 0429 908 635 > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- terry frewin 661 upper boho road boho 3669 03 5790 8635 0429 908 635 From msittner@mcn.org Sat, 12 May 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <20120512220312.1D171E8B06@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Calochortus monophyllus Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 15:03:14 -0700 Jane, I grew plants purchased from the Robinetts of this species that were unmarked. Sadly that is past tense. There is a photo on the wiki of one of those flowers. So if the form the Robinetts were selling was a pure yellow one perhaps the seed was too. The latest edition of the Jepson Manual, describes the color as "deep yellow, often red-brown-spotted above base" which would seem to allow unmarked ones. Here's the link for this species on the Jepson Herbarium if you wish to check the rest of the description: http://ucjeps.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/get_IJM.pl?tid=16744 Mary Sue From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Sun, 13 May 2012 06:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4B09B50A-B02D-46E9-A994-7A8633D3A0B0@gmail.com> From: Steven Subject: amaryllis seedlings Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 22:19:10 +1000 Hello Kathleen, Alberto & Ina, I have just planted up a variety of PBS & self grown Belladonna, Amaragia, Brunsvegia etc too. Obviously our climates are vastly different, but I'm happy to share my personal experiences with these treasures. Certainly the gents, have a good point about careful handling of young roots. However my climate allows me astounding success regardless of root damage or not. Intact i have experimented by removing foliage & all roots on 6 to 8 month seedlings which recovered extremely quickly. ( Not something i recommend ha ha ) I usually pot into 6 " pots, until they are large enough to withstand native animals scratching around. I'n early Autumn for the start of their growing season I'n as little as 4 - 12 months. But i am very experienced with fragile seedlings. At this age they have never gone dormant, & grow like wild fire, but usually go dormant their first season once placed out I'n the elements. Steven : ) Esk Queensland Australia Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 On 12/05/2012, at 6:09 AM, Kathleen Sayce wrote: > A couple of years ago I received Amaryllis belladonna seeds from PBS's seed exchange in a variety of colors (white, light pink, dark pink). I think they were from Michael Mace. > > My question is: when are the bulbs large enough to survive outside in zone 8? Two inches wide? Or? > > Right now I have them in my cold frame, where they are growing on nicely; in fact they don't go dormant at all in there. I have not turned them out of their pots to see how big the young bulbs are, and will do so when and if they go dormant this summer. > > Kathleen > > Kathleen Sayce > PNW Coast, WHZ 8, dryish cool summers & mild wet winters > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 13 May 2012 07:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: amaryllis seedlings Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 13:40:51 +0000 That in your experience or climate they survive a treatment that for all others will mean years of drawback or loss only proves that in your climate something abnormal for this type of plant happens. For someone starting the painful road to succesful amaryllid flowering it is as you say, not to be recommended. From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun, 13 May 2012 08:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Worsleya Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 09:37:05 -0500 Dear Dirk, Greetings and hope you are well. Spring is here and I once again feel the urge to try Worsleya again. My past attempts were pretty good - i thought - just beat up by our weather. I now have a god greenhouse for winter care. Seems that seed are far more available in AU than US. Any chance you can suggest a source that isn't outrageously over priced? Keep well. Best Jim -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sun, 13 May 2012 08:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Worsleya - apology Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 09:38:12 -0500 Sorry darned reply button -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From munrosj27@yahoo.com Sun, 13 May 2012 11:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1336931229.36545.YahooMailNeo@web162405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: stephen munro Subject: Camassia Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 10:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Rodger,   Perhaps you could create a bog garden?  It would take a while but you could start from seed (I don't know if these are on the market as bulbs) some of the lilies from SW Oregon and NW California that like their a bit wet like Vollmer's Lily ( L. pardalinum ssp. vollmeri). Kalmia microphylla would be an excellent bog plant to shelter and give a helping hand to growing bulbs.  Then maybe plant some skunk cabbage, fool's huckleberry, and salmon and thimble berry to taste?   Or finanlly just be done with it, dig the area out and put in a pond with a pump and make a water feature!   Best,   Stephen Munro Seattle ________________________________ From: Rodger Whitlock To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Camassia On 10 May 2012, at 9:33, Jane McGary wrote: > As far as I know, the only C. leichtlinii form in commerce is the > semi-double greenish-white form, called, I think, 'Alboplena'. That alboplena to me looks much like a double of the type form. I'd call a pale dirty yellow. I have a very dark form here that was given to me by my one-time gardener that appears to be a selection of C. leichtlinii ssp. suksdorfii. But I don't remember its name other than a dim recollection that it was named after a female Royal somewhere, likely one of the Dutch royals. It's a good form. It sets seed (though not copiously) so my stand of it, though isolated from my jungle of locally collected pale forms and their progeny, is probably no longer genetically pure. Any moment I expect ethnic cleansing to break out between the purebreds and the mongrels. Jane's further comments about growing camas in a sump came as welcome news. The storm sewer construction has led to the creation of a large bed that DOES NOT DRAIN, thanks to idiot constuction dudes running a big excavator over wet clay, and I've been at my wits' end trying to think what I can plant that that will tolerate the conditions thus created. I see a "moving of the camas" in my near future. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From michaelcmace@gmail.com Sun, 13 May 2012 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <001501cd3148$fed264e0$fc772ea0$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: amaryllis seedlings Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 13:43:03 -0700 This Amaryllis discussion reminds me of the old saying that the only thing you can ever truly say about gardening technique is "here's what works for me." In that spirit, a couple of thoughts. First, Kathleen, congratulations on the success of your seedlings so far! I am especially impressed that you have been able to keep them in growth. The big issue with Amaryllis is how loooooong they take to mature to blooming size, so the year-round growth will help you a lot. In fact, my first recommendation is that you keep them growing for as long as you can this year. When you do plant them out, make sure you give them a lot of room. The bulbs will grow to the size of softballs (pomelos for those of you outside the US) before they bloom, and they'll make offsets. If they are too crowded they won't bloom as freely, or at all. Second, I am not sure that any of us have answered your actual question: >> My question is: when are the bulbs large enough to survive outside in zone 8? Two inches wide? Or? Unfortunately, since I am in Zone 9, I can't really answer that. The danger to the plants, as I'm sure you know, is heavy frost (below 20F). If you have a relatively sheltered spot for them, they should be big enough to plant out now. But the trick is finding a place that's both sheltered and has a *lot* of light in winter, because the bulbs need that in order to bloom. I am not as worried about providing summer drought for them, because you do get a little bit of droughtiness in summer. But I'd give them very good drainage. They can't soak in summer, that's for sure. Third, I wanted to weigh in on the issue that everyone has been talking about, when to disturb the plants. I've found that many Amaryllids, and especially the Belladonna hybrids, are incredibly tough. As in, you could set off a bomb under one of them, it flies through the air for a couple of miles, lands upside down and smoking, and it'll probably sprout the next season. However, I've had several instances where I had an Amaryllid that survived almost total neglect for years, and then suddenly died after I tried to give it a bit of tender loving care. The most common situation seems to be when I repot them during dormancy. Every time I've done that, I have lost a significant minority of the bulbs. Either they never sprout, or they come up feebly and then die. The theory among some growers is that the plants are vulnerable if they get root damage when fully dormant. I don't know if they get a disease or if it just hurts their vigor, but that seems to be the case sometimes. In my experience, the best time to transplant or repot Amaryllis (and maybe most Amaryllids) is when they're just starting to grow in the Autumn. For the belladonna hybrids I do it right after they finish blooming, just as the leaves start to grow. At that time they seem to tolerate disturbance very well, and I rarely have any losses. So, if you ask me, I'd go ahead and plant out those seedlings, and make sure they are in a very sunny spot that nevertheless has some frost protection -- but don't do it until this autumn. Hope that helps, Mike San Jose, CA (zone 9, min tem 20F) From richrd@nas.com Sun, 13 May 2012 17:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <15DBD32E-E181-4CDA-8B14-3D1609959413@nas.com> From: Richard Subject: Lilium pardalinum Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 16:55:54 -0700 This might be interesting. Two collections of Lilium pardalinum. The first one we've been growing is a Butte County Calif. ss for years . Recently a colleague collected some seed of L. p. ssp volmerii, a modest collection we are using for bulb increase and will not be selling for a while. Seed of the two collections were late fall planted in adjacent seedbeds in the field and both emerged in second spring. The volmeri seedlings are more robust and a deeper green color. It will be interesting how these plants develop side by side in coming seasons ssp volmerii http://flic.kr/p/bXxHE3 Butte County collection http://flic.kr/p/bXxQe5 From du_tinoco@yahoo.com.br Sun, 13 May 2012 18:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1336956499.16515.YahooMailNeo@web164503.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> From: du tinoco Subject: Seeds of Zephyranthes Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 17:48:19 -0700 (PDT) Hello, I wonder if anyone has seeds of Zephyranthes katherinae and Zephyranthes lagesiana, I live in Manaus, Brazil. Hugo tinoco From xerantheum@gmail.com Sun, 13 May 2012 20:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Calochortus monophyllus Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 19:22:32 -0700 Hi Jane, Photos on CalPhotos show that there are some wild forms without the brown markings. Interestingly, there are several photos of natural populations of C. albus x monophyllus and the hybrid progeny looks like a custard yellow albus. I think Bob Werra mentioned something like this happening in his backyard. Nhu On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Jane McGary wrote: > Are there populations of C. monophyllus without dark markings? > From xerantheum@gmail.com Sun, 13 May 2012 20:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Calochortus monophyllus Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 19:24:31 -0700 Sorry, forgot the link: http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?query_src=photos_index&where-lifeform=any&rel-taxon=contains&where-taxon=calochortus+monophyllus On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Nhu Nguyen wrote: > Hi Jane, > > Photos on CalPhotos > From msittner@mcn.org Mon, 14 May 2012 08:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <20120514143832.9882EE8AD2@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Chile's flowering desert Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 07:38:19 -0700 Last October Eugene Zielinski created wiki pages so he could share with us his trip to see the flowering desert in Chile. He knew that since he would be showing photos of plants not fitting our guidelines for the wiki that some of the pictures would not be permanently on the wiki. We will leave the photos of bulbs and some of the scenery pictures. I expect the other photos to be gone by the end of the month so am suggesting that between now and then would be a good time to see them again. Here's the first page and you can get to the other pages from it by clicking on the links. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/ChilesFloweringDesert2011 We appreciate all the time that Eugene spent adding his photos to the wiki of this unusual flowering year. Mary Sue From robertwerra@pacific.net Mon, 14 May 2012 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Robert Werra" Subject: Calochortus monophylus Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 11:51:43 -0700 Regarding Calochortus monophylus bright yellow with and without brown basal mark, I have seen them both in the field at Table Mountain near Chico. They are both blooming in a pot here in Ukiah for a number of years with no Cal. albus nearby. Regarding a cross between Cal. monophylus and C. albus in nature, it has been recognized for many years. Stan Farwig, the Calochortus guru, told me about it. The cross looks like Nhu's picture, pale lemon, half open and fuzzy. Interestingly, the natural cross between Cal. amabilis and C. tolmei looks just about the same. I have had four of them blooming for a number of years and they are blooming now on the hillside by my home. How come? 25 years ago I fenced out the deer from a one acre area around my house on a wooded hillside. Amazingly, Calochortus amabilis and short little whie C. tolmei and Frit. amabilis came out of hiding. They are now in large colonies while outside the fence there is nary a one that doesn't get browsed off. In the areas where C. amabilis and C. tolmei abut and overlap is where the crosses occur. They are midway in heght between the two and look droopy. They set seed poorly. I planted 3 seeds one year,but they didn't sprout. I will send Mary Sue recent pictures. Bob Werra From ksayce@willapabay.org Mon, 14 May 2012 14:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <2FF0894C-F248-412D-87E0-DE72CCFAB3BE@willapabay.org> From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: Amaryllis seedlings Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 13:22:23 -0700 Mike Mace wrote: > This Amaryllis discussion reminds me of the old saying that the only thing > you can ever truly say about gardening technique is "here's what works for > me." > > I am not sure that any of us have answered your actual question: >>> My question is: when are the bulbs large enough to survive outside in > zone 8? Two inches wide? Or? > > I've found that many Amaryllids, and > especially the Belladonna hybrids, are incredibly tough. As in, you could > set off a bomb under one of them, it flies through the air for a couple of > miles, lands upside down and smoking, and it'll probably sprout the next > season. > > So, if you ask me, I'd go ahead and plant out those seedlings, and make sure > they are in a very sunny spot that nevertheless has some frost protection -- > but don't do it until this autumn. > MIke, Thanks for your comments. Yes, no one else answered my question, but as usual, I learned other interesting things about this species. I will replant them in larger pots, and put them back in the cold frame this fall, and see if I can keep them growing strongly for another year or two. This is very helpful, especially as the place they will go is sunny, but occupied by bulbs that I need to dig out and remove. Now I have a great reason to keep them out of that bed for another year or two while I clean up their final home! Procrastination is a wonderful thing. I enjoyed your comment about setting a bomb off under them. I transplanted my original plants a few years ago in midsummer when they were dormant, and did not give them much care when digging up. They went into their new location, bloomed that year, and then just kept going. At least in my garden, they seem somewhat bombproof. Cheers, Kathleen Kathleen Sayce PNW Coast, WHZ 8, dryish cool summers & mild wet winters From bulborum@gmail.com Mon, 14 May 2012 16:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Nothoscordum felippenei Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 00:35:28 +0200 I can't find any information about Nothoscordum felippenei No 25 in BX 308 who can help is this a syn. ?? Roland -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From idavide@sbcglobal.net Mon, 14 May 2012 17:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1337038819.97396.YahooMailRC@web184410.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: David Ehrlich Subject: Nothoscordum felippenei Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 16:40:19 -0700 (PDT) Nothoscordum felipponei = Tristagma sellowianum ________________________________ From: Bulborum Botanicum To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Mon, May 14, 2012 3:35:56 PM Subject: [pbs] Nothoscordum felippenei I can't find any information about Nothoscordum felippenei  No 25 in BX 308 who can help is this a syn. ?? Roland -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From eez55@earthlink.net Mon, 14 May 2012 18:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <380-22012521502056500@earthlink.net> From: "Eugene Zielinski" Subject: Nothoscordum felippenei Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 20:20:56 -0400 It looks like it is a misspelling of Nothoscordum felipponei. N. felipponei is on the PBS wiki. Eugene Zielinski Augusta, GA USA > [Original Message] > From: Bulborum Botanicum > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Date: 5/14/2012 6:35:55 PM > Subject: [pbs] Nothoscordum felippenei > > I can't find any information about Nothoscordum felippenei No 25 in BX 308 > who can help > is this a syn. ?? > > Roland > > -- > R de Boer > La Maugardiere 1 > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email:   bulborum@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From group@shoalcreeksucculents.com Mon, 14 May 2012 18:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <001501cd3232$cc9edf90$65dc9eb0$@shoalcreeksucculents.com> From: "Shoal Creek Succulents" Subject: Nothoscordum felippenei Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 19:36:27 -0500 'The Plant List' is a great resource. :) http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=Nothoscordum Regards, Lisa Elgin, IL zone 5a or b > > I can't find any information about Nothoscordum felippenei No 25 in BX 308 > who can help > is this a syn. ?? > > Roland > > -- > R de Boer > La Maugardiere 1 > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email: bulborum@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From bulborum@gmail.com Tue, 15 May 2012 00:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Nothoscordum felippenei Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 08:33:13 +0200 Thanks Eugene and David and for the link Lisa very helpful Roland > http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=Nothoscordum > > Regards, Lisa -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email:   bulborum@gmail.com From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Tue, 15 May 2012 15:17:13 -0700 Message-Id: <410-220125215221423843@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: Calochortus invenustus Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 18:14:23 -0400 ...in bloom on the coastal plain of NE North Carolina today....NNS 05-4116. Unfortunately it is peeking through a Caryopteris with tacky yellow foliage. Early C. species have been beaten ugly by recent rain storms. Zephyranthes primulina and Herbertia lahue finally putting on a good show and self-sowing in the front lawn swale after almost 5 years. MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 8a From richrd@nas.com Tue, 15 May 2012 16:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <08D61A91-9BC0-4A9F-BE9A-9902B27E7F38@nas.com> From: Richard Subject: Calochortus monophylus Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 16:10:32 -0700 Hello Bob At the meeting we discussed possibility of seed exchange. It would be nice to try some additional Calochortus species. I'm growing C. tolmei and obtained a nice seed crop last year. I'll be happy to trade for some bulbs from our field... I'm planning to be in Chico area mid June for a visit to my brother in Magalia and collecting whatever. Best Wishes Rich Haard Bellingham, On May 14, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Robert Werra wrote: > Regarding Calochortus monophylus bright yellow with and without brown basal mark, I have seen them both in the field at Table Mountain near Chico. They are both blooming in a pot here in Ukiah for a number of years with no Cal. albus nearby. Regarding a cross between Cal. monophylus and C. albus in nature, it has been recognized for many years. Stan Farwig, the Calochortus guru, told me about it. The cross looks like Nhu's picture, pale lemon, half open and fuzzy. Interestingly, the natural cross between Cal. amabilis and C. tolmei looks just about the same. I have had four of them blooming for a number of years and they are blooming now on the hillside by my home. How come? 25 years ago I fenced out the deer from a one acre area around my house on a wooded hillside. Amazingly, Calochortus amabilis and short little whie C. tolmei and Frit. amabilis came out of hiding. They are now in large colonies while outside the fence there is nary a one that doesn't get browsed off. I n > the areas where C. amabilis and C. tolmei abut and overlap is where the crosses occur. They are midway in heght between the two and look droopy. They set seed poorly. I planted 3 seeds one year,but they didn't sprout. I will send Mary Sue recent pictures. Bob Werra > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From richrd@nas.com Tue, 15 May 2012 17:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Richard Subject: Calochortus monophylus Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 16:21:07 -0700 oo darm intended to be off list\\ sorry From msittner@mcn.org Wed, 16 May 2012 07:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <20120516135236.943CDE8B2D@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Tulipa kolbintsevii Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 06:52:03 -0700 BJM Zonneveld has sent us his paper on this new species from Eastern Kazakhstan. Attachments are not supported on this list and messages sent to our list and unknown others are also held since that is the way spam is often sent. His paper is available however for all of you who are interested viewed either as a pdf file or html by going to this link. Thanks Ben for making this available for everyone to read. http://www.springerlink.com/content/t4543054472k3228 From xerantheum@gmail.com Wed, 16 May 2012 10:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Calochortus invenustus Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 09:35:36 -0700 Hi Mark, Congrats on all the Calochortus blooming. Which species are you growing? Will you share your secrets on how you do it in NC? Nhu On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 3:14 PM, MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER < markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net> wrote: > ...in bloom on the coastal plain of NE North Carolina today....NNS > 05-4116. > From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Wed, 16 May 2012 14:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <410-22012531621459140@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: Calochortus invenustus Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 17:04:59 -0400 > > Congrats on all the Calochortus blooming. Which species are you growing? > Will you share your secrets on how you do it in NC? > Nhu, These are the remnants of a collection from Ratko seed that grew in pots in the Connecticut greenhouse. They deeply resented pot culture here in North Carolina.. After two seasons the survivors were put into a minor bulb bed....sand over sandy clayey loam in a mound over native soil. They come (some will skip a season above ground ) and mostly go. C. striatus was in bloom last weekend but was beaten up by the rainstorms by the time I noticed. . In CT seed would germinate like cress. Here, hardly a sprout. Brodiaea californica and coronaria are also blooming now in my little corner of California. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA Zone 8a From ds429@comcast.net Thu, 17 May 2012 07:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <000001cd3437$96849790$c38dc6b0$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 310 Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 10:16:00 -0400 Dear All,        The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared.   If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 310" in the subject line.         Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/ share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS.      Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org ....          If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds.             I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Jim Jones: 1. Seed of Hippeastrum striatum 2. Seed of Narcissus 'Nylon' From Marvin Ellenbecker: 3. Seed of Hippeastrum papilio From Jonathan Lubar: 4. Seed of Gladiolus dalenii 5. Seed of Freesia laxa, blue 6. Bulbs of Oxalis hirta From Dell Sherk: 7. Propagules of Neomarica gracilis From Fred Biasella: 8. Bulbs of Agapanthus, light blue, dwarf form 9. Small bulbs of Hymenocallis (Ismene), fragrant white flowers, "Peruvian daffodil" 10. Bulbs of Eucomis comosa, white/green flowers, coconut fragrance 11. Small bulbs of Cyrtanthus mackenii, yellow Thank you, Jim, Marvin, Jonathan, and Fred !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From jim.marti.mc@gmail.com Thu, 17 May 2012 08:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Marti McManus Subject: removing name from list Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 07:46:56 -0700 I posted a lily question a couple of weeks ago, and received helpful suggestions from your members, for which I am grateful. But I am a casual gardener, and would rather not receive the many email communications that now come my way. How do I go about removing my email from your subscriber lists? Thank you. Marti McManus From rbartontx@yahoo.com Thu, 17 May 2012 09:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1337269788.13627.YahooMailNeo@web125601.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Rodney Barton Subject: Ferraria Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 08:49:48 -0700 (PDT) Hi all! I'm new to PBS and the list. I'd like some suggestions on how to get Ferraria to bloom in pots. I've had F. crispa and uncinata for many years. They grow and multiply like crazy but never bloom. I use a soil-less mix usually two parts "landscaper's mix" and one part sand. Thanks! Rod - North Central Texas, Zone 7b From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Thu, 17 May 2012 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <410-22012541716276421@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: Ferraria Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 12:27:06 -0400 I'd like some suggestions on how to get Ferraria to bloom in pots Deep containers. Divide often. Mark Mazer Hertford , North Carolina USA Zone 8 From richrd@nas.com Thu, 17 May 2012 20:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: From: Richard Subject: Veratrum propagation question Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 20:08:02 -0700 Bulbsters I've finally broken dormancy and gotten good germination in Veratrum californicum. This year, I made 2 plantings one in greenhouse flats and another in the field. Last week, all the seedlings in the greenhouse trays started to go down and appeared at first glance damped off. However on closer exam have formed what looks like a bulb that when dissected has an apparent bud inside. http://flic.kr/p/bZVKnm ?First true leaf? Specimens in the field still look good but since is cooler conditions may duplicate gh specimens soon. http://flic.kr/p/bZVJHE Is this a normal development sequence in Veratrum? Can I expect these 'buds' to sprout again this year? They seem to be behaving like Dodecatheon where cotyledons die back the first year to a fleshy underground structure. This year on Dodecatheon seedlings we have tried a treatment with gibberelic acid in attempt to dleay dieback and cause a second flush of growth, as is reported in literature. Might be worth a try with some of the standing seedlings? Rich Haard Bellingham, Wa., From ksayce@willapabay.org Fri, 18 May 2012 09:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: Veratrum propagation question Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 09:15:14 -0700 > Bulbsters > > I've finally broken dormancy and gotten good germination in Veratrum californicum. This year, I made 2 plantings one in greenhouse flats and another in the field. Last week, all the seedlings in the greenhouse trays started to go down and appeared at first glance damped off. However on closer exam have formed what looks like a bulb that when dissected has an apparent bud inside. > > http://flic.kr/p/bZVKnm > > ?First true leaf? > Specimens in the field still look good but since is cooler conditions may duplicate gh specimens soon. > > http://flic.kr/p/bZVJHE > > Is this a normal development sequence in Veratrum? Can I expect these 'buds' to sprout again this year? They seem to be behaving like Dodecatheon where cotyledons die back the first year to a fleshy underground structure. This year on Dodecatheon seedlings we have tried a treatment with gibberelic acid in attempt to dleay dieback and cause a second flush of growth, as is reported in literature. Might be worth a try with some of the standing seedlings? > > Rich Haard > Bellingham, Wa., > Richard, This is exciting news. Did you plant the seeds fresh in the greenhouse, give them a cold dormancy period first, or some other treatment? I located a population of vercal this year that is close to a main road rather than miles up a river or off road, so will have fresh seed next fall to plant. Kathleen Kathleen Sayce PNW Coast, WHZ 8, dryish cool summers & mild wet winters From tom@evolution-plants.com Fri, 18 May 2012 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <5615AA52-B758-48DE-804D-A10A0299F924@evolution-plants.com> From: Tom Mitchell Subject: Veratrum germination Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 17:16:47 +0100 Rich, The photos of Veratrum seedlings you took are typical of first year seedlings. In the greenhouse here the cotyledon continues to grow typically until about late August, when it goes quickly dormant, leaving the beginnings of a small rhizome. I'm surprised your seedlings have gone dormant so early. The first true leaf will appear next spring. I have never tried inducing a second flush of growth with GA abd would be curious to hear how you get on if you try this. Veratrum is so slow from seed that any method of speeding up development in the first couple of years would be useful. Slugs are a real menace at the seedling stage. Tom > > Bulbsters > > I've finally broken dormancy and gotten good germination in Veratrum californicum. This year, I made 2 plantings one in greenhouse flats and another in the field. Last week, all the seedlings in the greenhouse trays started to go down and appeared at first glance damped off. However on closer exam have formed what looks like a bulb that when dissected has an apparent bud inside. > > http://flic.kr/p/bZVKnm > > ?First true leaf? > Specimens in the field still look good but since is cooler conditions may duplicate gh specimens soon. > > http://flic.kr/p/bZVJHE > > Is this a normal development sequence in Veratrum? Can I expect these 'buds' to sprout again this year? They seem to be behaving like Dodecatheon where cotyledons die back the first year to a fleshy underground structure. This year on Dodecatheon seedlings we have tried a treatment with gibberelic acid in attempt to dleay dieback and cause a second flush of growth, as is reported in literature. Might be worth a try with some of the standing seedlings? > > Rich Haard > Bellingham, Wa., > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 112, Issue 24 > ************************************ From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri, 18 May 2012 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Veratrum propagation question Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 09:42:12 -0700 Regarding propagation of Veratrum californicum, I established this species in my former garden by planting freshly gathered seed directly in a shady, moist site. I think it took about 5 years to reach flowering size. The plants are now quite large. I brought one bulb to the new garden but may bring more, as thanks to the rotten real estate market here, the old garden is still available for me to plunder. I wouldn't have transplanted Veratrum seedlings while they were still green. I find most bulb seedlings can grow quite crowded their first and second years as long as they are in a fertile medium. One exception is Calochortus, which is susceptible to damping off if crowded. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From dhkerrmail@yahoo.com Fri, 18 May 2012 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1337359817.16582.YahooMailClassic@web160705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Daniel Kerr Subject: daylily seedling survival Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 09:50:17 -0700 (PDT) ************Anyone with experience hardening-off daylily hybrid seedlings?I've been getting some bleaching-out of seedlings; so am putting a 'glass' curtain over the seedlings during the late afternoon sun.  These are seedlings that I've moved out of baking trays in to 4" pots.Ones that look weak I bring inside and put near a window; but not on the sill.Also how long to wait to put them in bigger pots; I'm starting them in baked-goods trays.I give them some seaweed and mineral elixir after re-potting.Any tips appreciated!Thanks DanNW WA, 7busa From jshields@indy.net Fri, 18 May 2012 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20120518125346.036bde20@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: daylily seedling survival Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 12:56:50 -0400 I've grown a few daylilies from seed over the past years. They are pretty tough once they are old enough. Don't worry too much if the seedlings are 4 to 6 months old; new leaves will grow out to replace any that the sun burns off. At this time of year, I'd get them into the ground outdoors as soon as possible so they can start developing a good root run. I'd be happy to answer any other questions. Jim Shields At 09:50 AM 5/18/2012 -0700, you wrote: >************Anyone with experience hardening-off daylily hybrid >seedlings?I've been getting some bleaching-out of seedlings; so am putting >a 'glass' curtain over the seedlings during the late afternoon sun. These >are seedlings that I've moved out of baking trays in to 4" pots.Ones that >look weak I bring inside and put near a window; but not on the sill.Also >how long to wait to put them in bigger pots; I'm starting them in >baked-goods trays.I give them some seaweed and mineral elixir after >re-potting.Any tips appreciated!Thanks >DanNW WA, 7busa >_______________________________________________ ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From robertwerra@pacific.net Fri, 18 May 2012 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <453AD629A2A743D99F24AA8AC24CF477@Game1> From: "Robert Werra" Subject: Ferraria Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 13:36:08 -0700 So do I. I have struggled with Ferraria for over 15 years. No not struggled, but given up. Ferraria crispa? I planted in a long pot 15 yrs ago. It bloomed once but never again. However it proceeded to produced a pot full of bulb discs. I put some in a smaller pot and nothing. I put some in a raised bed and it bloomed once and never again. I give up. Bob in No. Calif. From jwickham@sbcglobal.net Fri, 18 May 2012 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1337374238.21489.YahooMailClassic@web81501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: John Wickham Subject: Ferraria Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 13:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Good to hear its not just me. I've got a couple of Ferraria that haven't even produced foliage...but the bulbs appear to remain viable. Is this a temperature thing? I'm in southern California. John --- On Fri, 5/18/12, Robert Werra wrote: From: Robert Werra Subject: [pbs] Ferraria To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Cc: "robert Werra" Date: Friday, May 18, 2012, 1:36 PM So do I. I have struggled with Ferraria for over 15 years. No not struggled, but given up. Ferraria crispa? I planted in a long pot 15 yrs ago. It bloomed once but never again. However it proceeded to produced  a pot full of bulb discs. I put some in a smaller pot and nothing. I put some in a raised bed and it bloomed once and never again. I give up.   Bob in No. Calif. From plicht@berkeley.edu Fri, 18 May 2012 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FB6B982.8030404@berkeley.edu> From: Paul Licht Subject: Ferraria Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 14:05:06 -0700 I don't know what to tell you. Here in Berkeley, they are trully weedy; they've taken over my front yard, and they spread in the botanical garden. The grow in full sun in well drained soil with little water and complete summer dryness. Paul Paul Licht, Director University of California Botanical Garden 200 Centennial Drive Berkeley, CA 94720 (510)-643-8999 http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu On 5/18/2012 1:50 PM, John Wickham wrote: > Good to hear its not just me. I've got a couple of Ferraria that haven't even produced foliage...but the bulbs appear to remain viable. Is this a temperature thing? I'm in southern California. > > From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Fri, 18 May 2012 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Ferraria Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 21:06:19 +0000 Southern California temperatures and a lot of coarse sand/pumice in the (deep) mix should do it. The largest plants have several perennial corms in a rosary. Splitting them will produce smaller (immature) plants. If they are producing lots of offsets something is wrong, as flowering is being postponed forever. Large containers or planting in the ground will give the corms the ample root run they evidently like. From pslate22@yahoo.com Fri, 18 May 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1337376168.74808.YahooMailNeo@web111918.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> From: Pamela Slate Subject: Ferraria Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 14:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Here is my extreme climate, they are in raised concrete planters (25 inches deep) in a plant mix of sandy loam, compost and pumice.  They do exceedingly well and flower and set seed prolifically.  They've never done well here in pots.  As deVos pointed out in his early monograph, they tolerate some summer moisture and I have found that to be true.  I don't dig them up annually, turn off irrigation to that bed all summer (except to hand water a few succulents) and expose them to late summer monsoon rains.  F. variabile was the last to complete its flowering cycle, even with 100-degree plus temperatures.  The former F. nortieri, now simply the northern form of F. crispa is the most floriferous....as well as one of the loveliest.   Wish I could share my good fortune with those of you having difficulty.   Good luck, Pamela     Pamela Slate P.O. Box 5316 Carefree AZ 85377 From ds429@comcast.net Fri, 18 May 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <000001cd353c$6a599ca0$3f0cd5e0$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: BX 310 CLOSED Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 17:23:05 -0400 Packages should go out after the weekend. Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From petersirises@gmail.com Fri, 18 May 2012 15:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Ferraria Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 22:33:29 +0100 Standard procedure for such CORMS would be to plant deeply to discourage splitting, to feed well and to encourage a long growing season to produce large corms and strong flowering shoots... Growing freely in ground with a dry surface and a free root run might simulate this cultivation hypothesis. I grew some Ferraria from seeds about 12 years ago. My climate is too cold for them in winter and I only managed to keep them alive by keeping them too dry to grow well, until the recent cold winter when I lost them all, so I can not claim to be good with the genus though I have a little winter heat in one green-house now and a corm received from a BX is in bud now. With both Ferraria and Moraea the corms have missed a growing season for me some years, I think it might be a matter of being too dry in Autumn ?. Peter (UK) On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 9:50 PM, John Wickham wrote: > Good to hear its not just me. I've got a couple of Ferraria that haven't > even produced foliage...but the bulbs appear to remain viable. Is this a > temperature thing? I'm in southern California. > > > So do I. I have struggled with Ferraria for over 15 years. No not > struggled, but given up. Ferraria crispa? I planted in a long pot 15 yrs > ago. It bloomed once but never again. However it proceeded to produced a > pot full of bulb discs. I put some in a smaller pot and nothing. I put some > in a raised bed and it bloomed once and never again. I give up. Bob in > No. Calif. > From avbeek1@hotmail.com Fri, 18 May 2012 16:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: a vbeek Subject: bomerea and stratify Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 22:53:00 +0000 I received bomarea seeds from BX 309. Some say the best way is to seed it at 20 - 25 degrees Celsius. Others say it is beneficially to stratify for 3 to 7 weeks at 5 degree Celsius in a refrigerator. What approach is the best? Aad van Beek The Netherlands From stantyson@msn.com Fri, 18 May 2012 16:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: stan tyson Subject: Vertatrum propagation. Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 18:07:20 -0500 Richard,I have had good results with Vertratum woodii and Melanthium virginicum. I have many of these plants. The first year they look like grass and the foliage only lasts a couple of months...which is close to normal for Melanthium. I would leave them dormant for a couple of months then try refrigerating them for 3 months ( similar protocal for Dodecatheon which I also grow many of). In my native species the growth starts early in the season when it is cool and the soli is cool. That my be your tricky part in multiplying the growth cycles in a year. I know of Veratrum californicum only through books. What is its growth cycle in hte wild? BTW I would not let the flats dry out hard...just maybe not keep too wet. Good luck! I am glad someone is trying with this species it is a fantastic plant! Email me with any other questions. Stan TysonCentral Illinois zone 5stantyson@msn.com > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 20:08:02 -0700 > From: Richard > Subject: [pbs] Veratrum propagation question > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Bulbsters > > I've finally broken dormancy and gotten good germination in Veratrum californicum. This year, I made 2 plantings one in greenhouse flats and another in the field. Last week, all the seedlings in the greenhouse trays started to go down and appeared at first glance damped off. However on closer exam have formed what looks like a bulb that when dissected has an apparent bud inside. > > http://flic.kr/p/bZVKnm > > ?First true leaf? > Specimens in the field still look good but since is cooler conditions may duplicate gh specimens soon. > > http://flic.kr/p/bZVJHE > > Is this a normal development sequence in Veratrum? Can I expect these 'buds' to sprout again this year? They seem to be behaving like Dodecatheon where cotyledons die back the first year to a fleshy underground structure. This year on Dodecatheon seedlings we have tried a treatment with gibberelic acid in attempt to dleay dieback and cause a second flush of growth, as is reported in literature. Might be worth a try with some of the standing seedlings? > > Rich Haard > Bellingham, Wa., > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 112, Issue 24 > ************************************ From plicht@berkeley.edu Fri, 18 May 2012 16:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4FB6D778.7020105@berkeley.edu> From: Paul Licht Subject: bomerea and stratify Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 16:12:56 -0700 Aad I did a whole series of tests with and without stratification; this treatment made almost no difference. The best and easiest results were soaking in water for 24hrs and then at 'room' temp (20-25C). The only failure were in seeds keep in a warmer place. They took 4-5 months for good sprouting and all conditions were erratic and spread out. I save space by keeping them in plastic bags (baggies) on wet paper until some sprouting starts. Paul Licht, Director University of California Botanical Garden 200 Centennial Drive Berkeley, CA 94720 (510)-643-8999 http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu On 5/18/2012 3:53 PM, a vbeek wrote: > > > > > > > I received bomarea seeds from BX 309. > > Some say the best way is to seed it at 20 - 25 degrees Celsius. Others say it is beneficially to stratify for 3 to 7 weeks at 5 degree Celsius in a refrigerator. What approach is the best? > > Aad van Beek > The Netherlands > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From sueh@csufresno.edu Fri, 18 May 2012 17:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1503521293.710668.1337382928103.JavaMail.root@zimbra3.its.csufresno.edu> From: Sue Haffner Subject: Ferraria Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 16:15:28 -0700 (PDT) Here in the hot, dry Fresno area, Ferraria do well in the ground in areas that get no summer irrigation at all. I gave some to a friend who waters all her plants diligently--and she killed them. Sue Haffner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Licht" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 2:05:06 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Ferraria I don't know what to tell you. Here in Berkeley, they are trully weedy; they've taken over my front yard, and they spread in the botanical garden. The grow in full sun in well drained soil with little water and complete summer dryness. Paul Paul Licht, Director University of California Botanical Garden 200 Centennial Drive Berkeley, CA 94720 (510)-643-8999 http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu On 5/18/2012 1:50 PM, John Wickham wrote: > Good to hear its not just me. I've got a couple of Ferraria that haven't even produced foliage...but the bulbs appear to remain viable. Is this a temperature thing? I'm in southern California. > > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From loujost@yahoo.com Fri, 18 May 2012 17:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1337384266.23867.YahooMailClassic@web120506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: lou jost Subject: Bomarea and stratify Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 16:37:46 -0700 (PDT) The need to stratify Bomarea seeds will  vary with the species. I have grown some of our native Ecuadorian species from seed, and they sprouted immediately without stratification. Since they do not experience big seasonal temperature changes here, I can't imagine it would be helpful to stratify them. Perhaps more southern South American species might need it, though. Lou From michaelcmace@gmail.com Fri, 18 May 2012 18:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <003601cd3558$1c28c300$547a4900$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Ferraria Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 17:41:19 -0700 Very interesting discussion. For what it's worth, here's my data: I grow a moderate number of Ferraria species. A few bloom pretty reliably (F. densepunctulata and cream and olive forms of F. crispa), while others make leaves but not flowers. I am growing them in 8-inch (20 cm) plastic pots with the same 50-50 sand and peat mix that I use for most other bulbs. It's amended with a lot of inorganic fertilizer when I repot every couple of years. Alberto told me to try growing them deep in the pots, so I did that with some of them last time I repotted and it may have helped (need to do more experiments to be sure). I try not to separate the strings of corms, after reading some comments saying that doing so makes them less likely to bloom. They get watered weekly from October to May, with no summer water at all. I tried them in the ground several times, but they disappeared promptly. Hope that helps. Mike San Jose, CA (zone 9, min temp 20F / -7c) From randysgarden@gmail.com Fri, 18 May 2012 19:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Randall P. Linke" Subject: bomerea and stratify Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 19:03:55 -0700 On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:12 PM, Paul Licht wrote: > Aad > I did a whole series of tests with and without > stratification; this treatment made almost no difference. > I planted fresh B. hirtella and B. distycha seed in a high peat mixture early this winter. I had some light frosts but didn't think anything had grown. I discovered this week that at least a few of the B. hirtella seeds had formed an underground 'tuber' without a single leaf appearing. Randy Linke Monterey Bay Region, zone 9 From maxwithers@gmail.com Fri, 18 May 2012 20:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Max Withers Subject: bomerea and stratify Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 19:49:13 -0700 I received my plants as seedlings from Nhu, so I can't speak to germination requirements, but further details of this Bomarea are that it gets at least 15 feet (~5m) tall and has survived a few very brief spells (like, an hour or two) of 28 degrees F (-1 C) in the ground without appreciable damage. Here's a picture of the inflorescence: http://www.flickr.com/photos/badthings/5868531802/ Best, Max Withers Oakland CA From richrd@nas.com Fri, 18 May 2012 21:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <01F45A05-626C-4A0A-B39C-EA185C4F0907@nas.com> From: Richard Subject: Veratrum propagation question Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 21:12:02 -0700 On May 18, 2012, at 9:15 AM, Kathleen Sayce wrote: > This is exciting news. > Did you plant the seeds fresh in the greenhouse, give them a cold dormancy period first, or some other treatment? > I located a population of vercal this year that is close to a main road rather tha Yes, although I did have it going previously but mistook dormant bulbs for a failed planting. Suddenly it made sense and we weeded clover out of a 2009 planting and found these: http://flic.kr/p/c1pHVQ with the 3yo plants showing the early dying down too: http://flic.kr/p/c1pJsC Late summer, I am going to move them to another location and provide better maintenance. We did however get a high percent germination and emergence this year which is new for us. Last fall after some discussion with Tom Mitchell I decided to try some warm stratification before cold. More important we held the seed in cold stratification until they were actively germinating. The imbibed seeds tend to look ready but wait for radicals to appear. We used 2 collections both from the same location but one stored dry for 1 year at 40 F. The stored seed was ready to plant 2 weeks longer in stratification. Not sure if the 3 weeks warm strat was needed but it did not hurt. The fresh collection germinated at 131 days. On other species stored in deep freezer for years we found warm stratification helped to break deep dormancy. These are the young bulbs after their early dieback http://flic.kr/p/bZVKqm From richrd@nas.com Fri, 18 May 2012 22:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <30C4D74E-EE5B-434B-92DE-4DFA7E778FA7@nas.com> From: Richard Subject: Vertatrum propagation. Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 21:52:28 -0700 On May 18, 2012, at 4:07 PM, stan tyson wrote: Richard, I have had good results with Vertratum woodii and Melanthium virginicum. > The first year they look like grass and the foliage only lasts a couple of months...which is close to normal for Melanthium. I would leave them dormant for a couple of months then try refrigerating them for 3 months ( similar protocal for Dodecatheon which I also grow many of). In my native species the growth starts early in the season when it is cool and the soli is cool. That my be your tricky part in multiplying the growth cycles in a year. I know of Veratrum californicum only through books. What is its growth cycle in hte wild? BTW I would not let the flats dry out hard...just maybe not keep too wet. Thanks for information Stan. My colleague has experience multiplying growth cycles in another species. We are planning to try this technique with several of our flats. I have only observed mature plants growing in snow melt fed wetland meadows (eastern Washington and Oregon). Rich Haard Bellingham, Wa., From petersirises@gmail.com Sat, 19 May 2012 02:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Ferraria Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 09:40:28 +0100 I have more experience of Mediterranean and continental winter growing bulbs, than with South Africans which (I find) don't always conform to the same rules. With these northern hemisphere plants it almost always leads to problems, either bacterial or fungal, if they are kept wet when temperatures get high enough that in nature they would be dry and dormant. --Heat will increase the growth rate of the problems much more than the growth rate of the plant. For both corms and bulbs which may suffer from heat while still in growth, or which produce too many small corms or bulbs, I usually plant them very deep in the pot and insulate them by filling the top third of the pot with pure gravel. The pots are plunged. If I found myself in a dessert, either hot and dry or frozen, I would probably seek shelter under rocks too... I used to keep crocuses in the frame out-side my green house on the south (hot and sunny) side, where the pots got dried out much earlier in the Summer. I get much better results with most of them, both in respect of growth and of fewer diseases, by keeping them in the cooler north facing frame. Occasionally I will take a pot of crocus into the greenhouse to protect the flowers. The corms always dwindle there unless I make a lot of effort to keep the plant in growth for a prolonged season. Then they mostly, (not all species), seem to relish the hot dry conditions on the bench for two or three months, - even such cool growers as Crocus civijicii. If any one tries to replicate this, please remember that my climate rarely has the heat which would be normal in parts of California! Peter (UK) From jshields@indy.net Sat, 19 May 2012 07:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20120519091838.00839558@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: What's in Bloom Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 09:33:57 -0400 In the garden, this is Iris Time in Indiana. Tall bearded iris, Siberian iris, and various species iris are all blooming. In a very protected spot outside the south end of one greenhouse, Hymenocallis liriosme is blooming. Of the half-dozen or so different accessions of liriosme that I tried outdoors in the ground in various spots, only this one accession (#1261) has survived. The two separate clones of #1261 are each increasing nicely into clumps. In less protected spots, not even #1261 has survived. Indiana is not good country for Hymenocallis liriosme. Thad Howard sent me two bulbs of #1261 (my number, not Thad's) in 2001. These two clumps have been in the ground through at least three winters. In the potted plants, mainly now moved outdoors from the greenhouses, there is scattered bloom. Sprekelia howardii has one rebloom just finishing now, and my pot of Sprekelia formosissima 'High Priest' has three blooms at once. Cyrtanthus montanus has one bulb in bloom and one other sending up a scape. Haemanthus montanus is blooming. Still in the greenhouse, Hippeastrum striatum from Brazil continues to put up some flowers, and one pot of Caliphruria korsakoffii is blooming. Pictures of these flowers should eventually make their way into my blog. Jim Shields in sunny Westfield, Indiana ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From kjblack@pacbell.net Sat, 19 May 2012 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1337453094.29704.YahooMailRC@web181004.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Ken Subject: Whats blooming now ... need ID, possible Drimia species Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 11:44:54 -0700 (PDT) I purchased a bulb with interesting hairy, light green foliage a little over a year ago.  It went dormant last Summer and produced a new flush of foliage again last fall, which now seems to be declining while the plant is in full-bloom.  It was labelled 'Drimia species' ... but I see nothing like it on the PBS WIKI.  Can any of you experts out there help me out? Bloom spikes: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/7228462414/in/photostream Bloom close-up: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/7228464110/in/photostream Foliage: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/7228465432/in/photostream Ken Blackford San Diego, CA  USDA zone 10 From othonna@gmail.com Sat, 19 May 2012 13:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Whats blooming now ... need ID, possible Drimia species Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 12:58:09 -0700 Ken, I believe this is an Ornithogalum (the "Drimia" designation is erroneous) that originally came from UC Irvine Arboretum without data or locality. It is a very dependable little clustering plant for shade and unusual among hyacinths for its softly pubescent leaves. The flowers will open more fully and are star-like. Maybe the Mueller-Doblies can provide a name? Dylan On 19 May 2012 11:44, Ken wrote: > > > I purchased a bulb with interesting hairy, light green foliage a little > over a > year ago. It went dormant last Summer and produced a new flush of foliage > again > last fall, which now seems to be declining while the plant is in > full-bloom. It > was labelled 'Drimia species' ... but I see nothing like it on the PBS > WIKI. > Can any of you experts out there help me out? > > Bloom spikes: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/7228462414/in/photostream > > Bloom close-up: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/7228464110/in/photostream > > Foliage: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/7228465432/in/photostream > > Ken Blackford > San Diego, CA USDA zone 10 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- "*Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.*" ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton From group@shoalcreeksucculents.com Sat, 19 May 2012 19:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <00b701cd362b$0d5cc690$281653b0$@shoalcreeksucculents.com> From: "Shoal Creek Succulents" Subject: Ferraria Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 20:51:08 -0500 Thanks to all for the info. I see where I have gone wrong. How deep to plant corm in 8" pot? I am going to move to sunny location in greenhouse. Regards, Lisa Zone 5 something -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Michael Mace Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 7:41 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] Ferraria Very interesting discussion. For what it's worth, here's my data: I grow a moderate number of Ferraria species. A few bloom pretty reliably (F. densepunctulata and cream and olive forms of F. crispa), while others make leaves but not flowers. I am growing them in 8-inch (20 cm) plastic pots with the same 50-50 sand and peat mix that I use for most other bulbs. It's amended with a lot of inorganic fertilizer when I repot every couple of years. Alberto told me to try growing them deep in the pots, so I did that with some of them last time I repotted and it may have helped (need to do more experiments to be sure). I try not to separate the strings of corms, after reading some comments saying that doing so makes them less likely to bloom. They get watered weekly from October to May, with no summer water at all. I tried them in the ground several times, but they disappeared promptly. Hope that helps. Mike San Jose, CA (zone 9, min temp 20F / -7c) From group@shoalcreeksucculents.com Sat, 19 May 2012 19:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <00b901cd362b$50f54f80$f2dfee80$@shoalcreeksucculents.com> From: "Shoal Creek Succulents" Subject: SPAM-MED: Re: Ferraria Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 20:53:01 -0500 Oops. Didn't see this one. Ok, deep in the pot. Got it. -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Peter Taggart Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 3:40 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: SPAM-MED: Re: [pbs] Ferraria I have more experience of Mediterranean and continental winter growing bulbs, than with South Africans which (I find) don't always conform to the same rules. With these northern hemisphere plants it almost always leads to problems, either bacterial or fungal, if they are kept wet when temperatures get high enough that in nature they would be dry and dormant. --Heat will increase the growth rate of the problems much more than the growth rate of the plant. For both corms and bulbs which may suffer from heat while still in growth, or which produce too many small corms or bulbs, I usually plant them very deep in the pot and insulate them by filling the top third of the pot with pure gravel. The pots are plunged. If I found myself in a dessert, either hot and dry or frozen, I would probably seek shelter under rocks too... I used to keep crocuses in the frame out-side my green house on the south (hot and sunny) side, where the pots got dried out much earlier in the Summer. I get much better results with most of them, both in respect of growth and of fewer diseases, by keeping them in the cooler north facing frame. Occasionally I will take a pot of crocus into the greenhouse to protect the flowers. The corms always dwindle there unless I make a lot of effort to keep the plant in growth for a prolonged season. Then they mostly, (not all species), seem to relish the hot dry conditions on the bench for two or three months, - even such cool growers as Crocus civijicii. If any one tries to replicate this, please remember that my climate rarely has the heat which would be normal in parts of California! Peter (UK) From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 20 May 2012 02:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Ferraria Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 09:50:47 +0100 The short answer, in my opinion , would be at the bottom. The longer answer is that I would pad the bottom of the pot with half an inch of compost, and if there is a danger of a perched water table I would plant rather higher. Apologies to those who already know this or who find the science boring but others may find this information helpful: A PERCHED WATER TABLE, in this case, is an area at the bottom of the pot which remains saturated with water (and therefore has no air in the potting medium). It happens when there is no route out of the pot for surplus water, (such as a capillary action through the drainage holes (or the sides of porous pots (clay or else pots with slots in the sides), or perhaps evaporation in hotter climates?) A drainage hole with an air gap preventing the water in the compost leaching out of the compost to the bench, plunge medium, or ground will stop the surplus water from draining at the bottom of the pot. The effect is easily demonstrated by lifting a sponge out of water, it does not drain completely when suspended unless you touch the bottom of the sponge. There are times when all this is not a problem such as when a plant is growing very fast and uses the water, or very limited watering, or shallow planting.... but in general for deep planting of bulbs in pots the compost should be in contact with a porous medium such as a capillary mat, earth, or bedded in sand and 'CROCKING' SHOULD BE KEPT TO A MINIMUM! Peter (UK) On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 2:51 AM, Shoal Creek Succulents < group@shoalcreeksucculents.com> wrote: > Thanks to all for the info. I see where I have gone wrong. > > How deep to plant corm in 8" pot? > From group@shoalcreeksucculents.com Sun, 20 May 2012 04:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <004901cd3679$2b315b10$81941130$@shoalcreeksucculents.com> From: "Shoal Creek Succulents" Subject: Ferraria Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 06:10:19 -0500 Thanks Peter. This was helpful. What is 'crocking'? I don't understand that term. Regards, Lisa -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Peter Taggart Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 3:51 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Ferraria The short answer, in my opinion , would be at the bottom. The longer answer is that I would pad the bottom of the pot with half an inch of compost, and if there is a danger of a perched water table I would plant rather higher. Apologies to those who already know this or who find the science boring but others may find this information helpful: A PERCHED WATER TABLE, in this case, is an area at the bottom of the pot which remains saturated with water (and therefore has no air in the potting medium). It happens when there is no route out of the pot for surplus water, (such as a capillary action through the drainage holes (or the sides of porous pots (clay or else pots with slots in the sides), or perhaps evaporation in hotter climates?) A drainage hole with an air gap preventing the water in the compost leaching out of the compost to the bench, plunge medium, or ground will stop the surplus water from draining at the bottom of the pot. The effect is easily demonstrated by lifting a sponge out of water, it does not drain completely when suspended unless you touch the bottom of the sponge. There are times when all this is not a problem such as when a plant is growing very fast and uses the water, or very limited watering, or shallow planting.... but in general for deep planting of bulbs in pots the compost should be in contact with a porous medium such as a capillary mat, earth, or bedded in sand and 'CROCKING' SHOULD BE KEPT TO A MINIMUM! Peter (UK) On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 2:51 AM, Shoal Creek Succulents < group@shoalcreeksucculents.com> wrote: > Thanks to all for the info. I see where I have gone wrong. > > How deep to plant corm in 8" pot? > From petersirises@gmail.com Sun, 20 May 2012 05:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Ferraria Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 12:29:39 +0100 'Crocking' is when stones, gravel or pieces of broken pots are placed over the the drainage holes in the bottom of pots to prevent the compost falling out. I try to fit crocks neatly for stoloniferous plants to prevent them escaping from the pot. (However I use a lot of porous clay pots which are not nesescarily suitable for all conditions). Contrary to popular opinion crocking may interupt drainage if there is no route through the crocks for water. - see my last post. An alternative to crocks, which may also stop worms and some other creatures entering the pots, is to use a piece of fine mesh such as sold for wind protection by garden centres. Peter (UK) On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Shoal Creek Succulents < group@shoalcreeksucculents.com> wrote: > Thanks Peter. This was helpful. What is 'crocking'? I don't understand > that term. > > From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 20 May 2012 06:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: SPAM-MED: Re: Ferraria Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 12:51:14 +0000 Yes, but the mix mostly of coarse sand. Most of the Ferrarias grow in sand/sandy soil. From dkramb@badbear.com Sun, 20 May 2012 21:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: a tale of bulb abuse Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 23:54:17 -0400 Once upon a time I got a Eucharis bulb through the BX. It was my 3rd acquisition of Eucharis. I was so happy to have it because my other 2 plants are growing great! But I neglected to unpack it promptly and quite a long time elapsed. When I finally opened the package, I found my bulb turning soft & moldy. I was so annoyed! I gave it a bleach bath and let it dry out. I potted it up and neglected it again! LOL. For months I didn't water it often enough and it never sprouted any green. I thought for sure it was dead. So I unpotted it and found one small white root. Well... that seemed to be a good sign, so I thought some humidity might do the trick. I re-potted it and enclosed it in a large clear bag... and accidentally neglected it again. When I inspected it about a month ago it was a white fuzzy moldy mess again. Damn! Obviously it was dead. I ignored it again. And then today I noticed a healthy green leaf sprouting, and no signs of mold! OBVIOUSLY this isn't how a fresh Eucharis bulb should be treated. But I am amazed at how resilient this has been. Apparently the bulb itself wasn't moldy, just the outer layer. And I guess the humidity finally did the trick. I'm quite pleased about this encouraging sign of life. Dennis in Cincinnati (who still hasn't seen a Eucharis bloom) From randysgarden@gmail.com Sun, 20 May 2012 21:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Randall P. Linke" Subject: a tale of bulb abuse Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 21:04:56 -0700 On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 8:54 PM, Dennis Kramb wrote: > Once upon a time I got a Eucharis bulb through the BX. I am frequently (too frequently) amazed at how tenacious some plants are and so determined to survive despite our worst efforts. Randy Linke Monterey Bay Region, zone 9 From Milkuhn@t-online.de Mon, 21 May 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1SWW4S-2HJlKq0@fwd02.t-online.de> From: "Gottfried Milkuhn" Subject: Whats blooming now ... need ID, possible Drimia species (Ken) Date: 21 May 2012 17:06 GMT Hi Ken, this plant I have also - it is a form of Ornithogalum hispidum (Little Karoo). I have two provenances... Both are identic. Perhaps can help this. Gottfried Germany From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon, 21 May 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: a tale of bulb abuse Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 17:32:13 +0000 Yes, provided the mould present in the bags wasn`t of the killing type. From othonna@gmail.com Mon, 21 May 2012 14:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Whats blooming now ... need ID, possible Drimia species (Ken) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 13:25:25 -0700 Gottfried, I think this is something very different. The scapes are almost black, wiry and tortuous (vs. green and straight) and the bulbs shallow and clustering. The leaves are all basal (not dissimilar to Drimia haworthioides) compared to O. hispidum from e.g. Citrusdal, which has a habit more like a terrestrial orchid overall. Also, in my experience O. hispidum flowers with leaves whereas this "O. sp." flowers after the leaves are completely dead, about 6 weeks after O. hispidum. I have not made a comparison of the flowers. Dylan On 21 May 2012 10:06, Gottfried Milkuhn wrote: > Hi Ken, > > this plant I have also - it is a form of Ornithogalum hispidum (Little > Karoo). I have two provenances... Both are identic. > Perhaps can help this. > > Gottfried > Germany > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- "*Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.*" ~ Gilbert K. Chesterton From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Mon, 21 May 2012 15:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4FBAB788.8020208@suddenlink.net> From: Diana Chapman Subject: Mass blooming Calochortus Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 14:45:44 -0700 I was in the Sierra foothills about a month ago for my usual trip to see the wildflowers. Last year I was very dismayed to see that virtually all vegetation in one area had been cleared in on both sides of the road to a depth of about 20 feet. This went on for some miles, and was probably for fire control. In a completely different area, similar clearing of manzanita had taken place. This spring there was a mass blooming of Calochortus tolmiei in one place and C. monophyllus in another. In both areas (which I know very well) I have never seen blooming like this, and in some places I have never seen them blooming at all. This was not a good year for bulb flowers due to the two month dry spell we had, so these two areas really stood out. It has been postulated that mass blooming of bulbs after fire could be due to smoke penetrating the ground, or to nutrients from the ash, but there were neither, just the removal of dense shrubby vegetation, so maybe it isn't anything mysterious at all, just the removal of competition, thereby making available to the existing bulbs more moisture and nutrients in the soil. I went back this weekend for seed, and another thing struck me was that the percentage of plants that set seed in colonies like this is very small. The flowering was amazing, but seed was fairly sparse, not even 10% of the individuals producing seed. the C. monophyllus (it is not spotted) literally covers square miles in this area, and the C. tolmiei is almost as abundant. Diana From kimcmich@hotmail.com Mon, 21 May 2012 16:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: Mass blooming Calochortus Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 15:18:51 -0700 Greetings, I would posit that the mass growth & bloom was a result of the reduced competition for sunlight and moisture but I would further posit that seed-setting is comparatively more limited by trace elements than by sunlight/moisture. It would be interesting to test this by comparing the seed-set (rather than merely the vegetative growth or flowers) of two populations that experience manual vs. fire-induced clearing (assuming there is some truth to the idea that fire returns nutrients to the soil!). -| Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 14:45:44 -0700 > From: rarebulbs@suddenlink.net > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [pbs] Mass blooming Calochortus > > I was in the Sierra foothills about a month ago for my usual trip to see > the wildflowers. Last year I was very dismayed to see that virtually > all vegetation in one area had been cleared in on both sides of the road > to a depth of about 20 feet. This went on for some miles, and was > probably for fire control. In a completely different area, similar > clearing of manzanita had taken place. This spring there was a mass > blooming of Calochortus tolmiei in one place and C. monophyllus in > another. In both areas (which I know very well) I have never seen > blooming like this, and in some places I have never seen them blooming > at all. This was not a good year for bulb flowers due to the two month > dry spell we had, so these two areas really stood out. It has been > postulated that mass blooming of bulbs after fire could be due to smoke > penetrating the ground, or to nutrients from the ash, but there were > neither, just the removal of dense shrubby vegetation, so maybe it isn't > anything mysterious at all, just the removal of competition, thereby > making available to the existing bulbs more moisture and nutrients in > the soil. I went back this weekend for seed, and another thing struck > me was that the percentage of plants that set seed in colonies like this > is very small. The flowering was amazing, but seed was fairly sparse, > not even 10% of the individuals producing seed. the C. monophyllus (it > is not spotted) literally covers square miles in this area, and the C. > tolmiei is almost as abundant. > > Diana > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Mon, 21 May 2012 16:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4FBAC9F7.2050902@suddenlink.net> From: Diana Chapman Subject: Mass blooming Calochortus Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 16:04:23 -0700 Well, I'm sure the ash does return nutrients, but probably not fast enough to make a difference the following year. With many bulbs I grow, they bloom but don't set seed that readily. My Paramongaia bulbs have been blooming for three years, and this is the first year I got a pod, so I think with Amaryllids they need to reach a certain size before they can maintain a seed pod. I think you are right about moisture because in wet years in the foothills you see populations of bulbs blooming that you didn't even know existed in that area. I never knew C. superbus grew just up the road until we had a very wet spring. Diana > Greetings, > > I would posit that the mass growth& bloom was a result of the reduced competition for sunlight and moisture but I would further posit that seed-setting is comparatively more limited by trace elements than by sunlight/moisture. It would be interesting to test this by comparing the seed-set (rather than merely the vegetative growth or flowers) of two populations that experience manual vs. fire-induced clearing (assuming there is some truth to the idea that fire returns nutrients to the soil!). > > -| >> Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 14:45:44 -0700 >> From: rarebulbs@suddenlink.net >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> Subject: [pbs] Mass blooming Calochortus >> >> I was in the Sierra foothills about a month ago for my usual trip to see >> the wildflowers. Last year I was very dismayed to see that virtually >> all vegetation in one area had been cleared in on both sides of the road >> to a depth of about 20 feet. This went on for some miles, and was >> probably for fire control. In a completely different area, similar >> clearing of manzanita had taken place. This spring there was a mass >> blooming of Calochortus tolmiei in one place and C. monophyllus in >> another. In both areas (which I know very well) I have never seen >> blooming like this, and in some places I have never seen them blooming >> at all. This was not a good year for bulb flowers due to the two month >> dry spell we had, so these two areas really stood out. It has been >> postulated that mass blooming of bulbs after fire could be due to smoke >> penetrating the ground, or to nutrients from the ash, but there were >> neither, just the removal of dense shrubby vegetation, so maybe it isn't >> anything mysterious at all, just the removal of competition, thereby >> making available to the existing bulbs more moisture and nutrients in >> the soil. I went back this weekend for seed, and another thing struck >> me was that the percentage of plants that set seed in colonies like this >> is very small. The flowering was amazing, but seed was fairly sparse, >> not even 10% of the individuals producing seed. the C. monophyllus (it >> is not spotted) literally covers square miles in this area, and the C. >> tolmiei is almost as abundant. >> >> Diana >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From petersirises@gmail.com Tue, 22 May 2012 00:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Mass blooming Calochortus Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 08:08:01 +0100 What about the heat from extra sun on the ground (and fire) helping to set the flowering buds in the 'dormant' bulbs in cleared spaces? Peter (UK) >> Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 14:45:44 -0700 > >> From: rarebulbs@suddenlink.net > >> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> Subject: [pbs] Mass blooming Calochortus > > Last year I was very dismayed to see that virtually > >> all vegetation in one area had been cleared in on both sides of the road > >> to a depth of about 20 feet. > > This spring there was a mass > >> blooming of Calochortus tolmiei in one place and C. monophyllus in > >> another. ....so maybe it isn't > >> anything mysterious at all, just the removal of competition, > From d.mueller-doblies@gmx.de Tue, 22 May 2012 02:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4FBB52F7.8080700@gmx.de> From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Dietrich_M=FCller-Doblies?= Subject: Whats blooming now ... need ID, possible Drimia species Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 10:48:55 +0200 Dear Dylan, certainly you are right, it is an interesting Ornithogalum sp. of the O. graminifolium group. As it is a plant without locality it is, however, without interest for us. Cheers Dietrich Am 19.05.2012 21:58, schrieb Hannon: > Ken, > > I believe this is an Ornithogalum (the "Drimia" designation is erroneous) > that originally came from UC Irvine Arboretum without data or locality. It > is a very dependable little clustering plant for shade and unusual among > hyacinths for its softly pubescent leaves. The flowers will open more fully > and are star-like. > > Maybe the Mueller-Doblies can provide a name? > > Dylan > > On 19 May 2012 11:44, Ken wrote: > >> >> I purchased a bulb with interesting hairy, light green foliage a little >> over a >> year ago. It went dormant last Summer and produced a new flush of foliage >> again >> last fall, which now seems to be declining while the plant is in >> full-bloom. It >> was labelled 'Drimia species' ... but I see nothing like it on the PBS >> WIKI. >> Can any of you experts out there help me out? >> >> Bloom spikes: >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/7228462414/in/photostream >> >> Bloom close-up: >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/7228464110/in/photostream >> >> Foliage: >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/7228465432/in/photostream >> >> Ken Blackford >> San Diego, CA USDA zone 10 >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > > From totototo@telus.net Tue, 22 May 2012 11:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FBB6804.26994.94F3@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Mass blooming Calochortus Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 10:18:44 -0700 On 21 May 2012, at 14:45, Diana Chapman wrote: > ...it has been postulated that mass blooming of bulbs after fire could be > due to smoke penetrating the ground, or to nutrients from the ash, but there > were neither, just the removal of dense shrubby vegetation, so maybe it > isn't anything mysterious at all, just the removal of competition... Some twenty years ago, a long neglected area behind Government House here in Victoria BC, the official resident of the Lieutenant Governor, was cleared of invasive species by a band of volunteers, as part of restoring the gardens there. The invasive species included the usual culprits: Scotch broom, ivy, Daphne laureola, etc. The next spring, Erythronium oregonum and camas flowered profusely all down the rocky slope in spite of not having been seen there in living memory. Exactly the same phenomenon Diana has observed. Restoration of Government House gardens: http://www.ltgov.bc.ca/gardens/history.htm View of "The Woodlands" (Government House in background) from south east: http://maps.google.com/?ll=48.416328,- 123.332605&spn=0.01051,0.033088&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=48.416329,- 123.340818&panoid=DGy1fgpSVRO0DKPF1b41Bg&cbp=13,336.28,,0,0.14 -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From jacobknecht@gmail.com Tue, 22 May 2012 23:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jacob Knecht Subject: Crinum minimum in bloom tonight! Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 22:51:08 -0700 Hi, My partner Nhu Nguyen and I wanted to share this happy event with other bulb aficionados: This rare desert gem opened it's flower a few hours ago and is currently emitting a powerful, fresh, pleasant scent, not unlike that of Brugmansia suaveolens. The flower will close by tomorrow morning. There is a slight chance it may try to re-open the following night, but in my experience this species' 2nd showing is not as spectacular with a weaker form and fragrance. This is the third consecutive blooming from this bulb in three years. What a treat! Crinum minimum is the smallest Crinum species in South Africa and is at least one of the smallest in the world. I actually think that it is indeed the smallest, but if there is one smaller I hope someone will point it out to me. Leaves 6-10cm long and 1-2mm wide with entire margins emerge from this petite bulb. This species has singular adaptations, entirely unique among SA Crinum. It inhabits hot and dry places that have prolonged droughts where the only rain arrives via erratic thunderstorms which can occur from Oct to April (Northwest Province). The leaves behave in the manner of Ammocharis coranica, dying back if it is too dry but returning in the same season when more water is available. Also this species will remain completely dormant and never grow leaves unless rainfall is sufficient, skipping consecutive years.¹ ¹Craib C. 1997. Crinum minimum: One of South Africa's Most Unusual Bulbous Plants. Herbertia 52: 101-108. Check out these pictures, taken moments ago: http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/7253894220/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/7253885638/ To keep up with my botanical blogging, bookmark my flickr :) I also just started a tumblr for those who are into that. Aloha, Jacob Berkeley, California From plantnutga@gmail.com Wed, 23 May 2012 04:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Erin Grace Subject: Crinum minimum in bloom tonight! Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 06:43:39 -0400 It's beautiful, Jacob! Thank you for sharing! From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed, 23 May 2012 07:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Crinum minimum in bloom tonight! Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 08:09:03 -0500 >Crinum minimum is the smallest Crinum species in South Africa and is at >least one of the smallest in the world. Dear Jacob, Thanks for this account and pix. This is the essence of what I like to see in PBS posts. You didn't mention the excellent account on the wiki and pix of the whole plant to get some better size perspective. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumSpeciesThree#minimum Definitely a collector's bulb. Congrats on blooming this rarity. Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From dkramb@badbear.com Wed, 23 May 2012 07:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Crinum minimum in bloom tonight! Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 09:29:02 -0400 What a beautiful Crinum! I never heard of that species before. Thank you for sharing it!!! Dennis in Cincinnati From alanidae@gmail.com Wed, 23 May 2012 08:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alani Davis Subject: [IBSMEMBERS] Crinum minimum in bloom tonight! Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 10:18:14 -0400 Very nice! Alani On May 23, 2012 12:51 AM, "Jacob Knecht" wrote: > > > Hi, > > My partner Nhu Nguyen and I wanted to share this happy event with other > bulb aficionados: > > This rare desert gem opened it's flower a few hours ago and is currently > emitting a powerful, fresh, pleasant scent, not unlike that of Brugmansia > suaveolens. The flower will close by tomorrow morning. There is a slight > chance it may try to re-open the following night, but in my experience this > species' 2nd showing is not as spectacular with a weaker form and > fragrance. This is the third consecutive blooming from this bulb in three > years. What a treat! > > Crinum minimum is the smallest Crinum species in South Africa and is at > least one of the smallest in the world. I actually think that it is indeed > the smallest, but if there is one smaller I hope someone will point it out > to me. Leaves 6-10cm long and 1-2mm wide with entire margins emerge from > this petite bulb. This species has singular adaptations, entirely unique > among SA Crinum. It inhabits hot and dry places that have prolonged > droughts where the only rain arrives via erratic thunderstorms which can > occur from Oct to April (Northwest Province). The leaves behave in the > manner of Ammocharis coranica, dying back if it is too dry but returning > in the same season when more water is available. Also this species will > remain completely dormant and never grow leaves unless rainfall is > sufficient, skipping consecutive years.¹ > > ¹Craib C. 1997. Crinum minimum: One of South Africa's Most Unusual Bulbous > Plants. Herbertia 52: 101-108. > > Check out these pictures, taken moments ago: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/7253894220/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/morabeza79/7253885638/ > > To keep up with my botanical blogging, bookmark my flickr :) I also just > started a tumblr for those who are into > that. > > Aloha, > > Jacob > Berkeley, California > > > __._,_.___ > > > Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional > Change settings via the Web(Yahoo! ID required) > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest| Switch > to Fully Featured > Visit Your Group > | Yahoo! > Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe > > > __,_._,___ From marygastil@yahoo.com Wed, 23 May 2012 08:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1337785832.64773.YahooMailNeo@web161506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Gastil Subject: Dierama with 10 petals Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 08:10:32 -0700 (PDT) Has anyone seen Dierama bloom with 10 petals instead of the usual 6?  http://www.flickr.com/photos/gastils_garden/7255948420/in/photostream/ Only one flower on one stalk has 10 petals.  Not "double", just more flared out. Until I uploaded the photos I did not notice that one other flower has more than 6.  I do not know the species and these are from 2nd generation seed from seed originally from volunteer plants outside the UCSB greenhouse.  There is some variation in these pink Dierama, some with darker pink stripes, some less widely flaring.  But this is the first variation in petal count I have observed.  These pink ones are only half the height of my white ones and bloom a month later. - Gastil From randysgarden@gmail.com Wed, 23 May 2012 09:17:09 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Randall P. Linke" Subject: Dierama with 10 petals Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 08:18:57 -0700 On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 8:10 AM, Gastil wrote: > Has anyone seen Dierama bloom with 10 petals instead of the usual 6? > I have grown over a dozen different dieramas for over ten years, but I have never noticed any with more than six petals. They are known to readily hybridize. Randy Monterey Bay area From sevanetz@telus.net Wed, 23 May 2012 11:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <9328220CF6D44B178B58A9FA4FB80E16@MiniSue> From: Subject: Let me introduce myself Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 09:43:48 -0700 I joined PBS a few months back and have been combing through your wonderful site quite addictively. Time to introduce myself. I have noticed that there is a very high level of knowledge in this company, but on the understanding that there are no stupid questions....... here goes. I garden in the very rainy Vancouver area and belong to FOGs, Friends of the Garden, a volunteer organization associated with the University of British Columbia Botanical Garden. A new area of interest and outreach (and addiction!) iin our group is the growing of bulbs, for the beginner and the not so beginner. We have had some trouble in finding dependable bulb suppliers for the choicer bulbs, that could deliver to us in a timely way, and that would ship to Canada. The curator of the Alpine section of the UBCBG would also be appreciative of any suggestions for reliable sources. Thank you for your help. Cheers, Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 9:01 AM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 112, Issue 29 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Today's Topics: > > 1. Whats blooming now ... need ID, possible Drimia species (Ken) > (Gottfried Milkuhn) > 2. Re: a tale of bulb abuse (Alberto Castillo) > 3. Re: Whats blooming now ... need ID, possible Drimia species > (Ken) (Hannon) > 4. Mass blooming Calochortus (Diana Chapman) > 5. Re: Mass blooming Calochortus (Kipp McMichael) > 6. Re: Mass blooming Calochortus (Diana Chapman) > 7. Re: Mass blooming Calochortus (Peter Taggart) > 8. Re: Whats blooming now ... need ID, possible Drimia species > (Dietrich M?ller-Doblies) > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > From jacobknecht@gmail.com Wed, 23 May 2012 10:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jacob Knecht Subject: Crinum minimum in bloom tonight! Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 10:10:31 -0700 Thank you for your response Jim. I have added new pictures and text to the wiki entry for this species: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrinumSpeciesThree#minimum Jacob From xerantheum@gmail.com Wed, 23 May 2012 11:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Let me introduce myself Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 10:42:51 -0700 Hi Sue, Welcome to the PBS! Mike Mace created a great and very useful wiki page for sources of bulbs. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Sources Otherwise, keep an eye out for our BX. Summer is approaching and there will be lots of bulbs available soon. Best, Nhu On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 9:43 AM, wrote: > We have > had some trouble in finding dependable bulb suppliers for the choicer > bulbs, > that could deliver to us in a timely way, and that would ship to Canada. > From jshields@indy.net Wed, 23 May 2012 12:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20120523141155.05587570@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Crinum minimum in bloom tonight! Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 14:18:51 -0400 Very nice, Jacob. Dave Lehmiller claims that all the C. minimum in cultivation are actually Crinum walteri. Not that this makes a material difference in the rarity or value in growing this little gem, which ever name is appropriate. I, too, have one of these bulbs, which I think came from Charles Craib's t.c. work. I tend to go along with Dave on crinum name assignments. I have not so far been able to get mine to set seed itself by any other pollen, nor has its pollen worked for me so far. Has anyone gotten seed from C. "minimum" (or walteri), either direction? I grow mine in a 1-gal. pot in my standard gritty bulb mix. I think I see the tip of a bloom bud showing in the neck of my bulb right now. Jim Shields in warm, sunny, and dry Westfield, Indiana At 09:29 AM 5/23/2012 -0400, you wrote: >What a beautiful Crinum! I never heard of that species before. Thank >you for sharing it!!! > >Dennis in Cincinnati ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From richrd@nas.com Thu, 24 May 2012 08:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <0F2650EE-FE9D-451E-8522-268814A7AE8A@nas.com> From: Richard Subject: Let me introduce myself Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 07:35:53 -0700 Hi Sue Our new perennial and bulb catalog will be out in late June. We're certified nursery, grow pnw native bulbs, Iris, etc and can ship to Canada with a phyto certificate. As we are wholesale there are minimum quantities for orders. Send your mailing address and I will forward our catalog when it is ready. Rich Haard Fourth Corner Nurseries Bellingham, Wa., On May 23, 2012, at 9:43 AM, wrote: > dependable bulb suppliers for the choicer bulbs, > that could deliver to us in a timely way, and that would ship to Canada From sujithart@gmail.com Thu, 24 May 2012 20:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Sujithart@gmail.com" Subject: Let me introduce myself Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 22:31:11 -0400 10526 Wind Walker Trail Houston, Texas 77095 Thanks, Sue Sent from my iPad On May 24, 2012, at 10:35 AM, Richard wrote: > Hi Sue > > Our new perennial and bulb catalog will be out in late June. We're certified nursery, grow pnw native bulbs, Iris, etc and can ship to Canada with a phyto certificate. As we are wholesale there are minimum quantities for orders. Send your mailing address and I will forward our catalog when it is ready. > > Rich Haard > Fourth Corner Nurseries > Bellingham, Wa., > > > On May 23, 2012, at 9:43 AM, wrote: > >> dependable bulb suppliers for the choicer bulbs, >> that could deliver to us in a timely way, and that would ship to Canada > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From savita@pfpros.com Thu, 24 May 2012 22:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <8A53A473A9A64511B94C3CF327E10F6E@SunnysEMachine> From: "Savita" Subject: Let me introduce myself Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 21:49:37 -0700 I would like to receive your catalog. I am a small bulb grower in Santa Rosa & am constantly looking for other that the usual bulbs. thank you. savita wilder Daffodils, Dahlias & Lilies Oh My! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 7:35 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Let me introduce myself > Hi Sue > > Our new perennial and bulb catalog will be out in late June. We're > certified nursery, grow pnw native bulbs, Iris, etc and can ship to Canada > with a phyto certificate. As we are wholesale there are minimum > quantities for orders. Send your mailing address and I will forward our > catalog when it is ready. > > Rich Haard > Fourth Corner Nurseries > Bellingham, Wa., > > > On May 23, 2012, at 9:43 AM, wrote: > >> dependable bulb suppliers for the choicer bulbs, >> that could deliver to us in a timely way, and that would ship to Canada > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat, 26 May 2012 14:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Fritillaria persica Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 11:17:46 -0500 Dear Friends, but maybe especially Jane McG, I have grown two forms of F. persica for a number of years and even donated bulbs of one to the BX. One form has produced a number of off sets and made nice clumps. The second has only made a single offset in at decade or more, but has better, richer colored flowers, and grows taller. I suspect it is close to if not the cv 'Adiyaman' although it came with no cv name. This spring both bloomed, but only 'Adiyaman' made seed pods. Two stalks made about 10 or 12 fat seed pods and ample fertile looking seeds. I'll donate some to the Seed Ex eventually. So Jane, any suggestions about starting these seeds? growing on etc? Does this sound like the difference between typical Dutch stocks and the real 'Adiyaman'? Many thanks Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat, 26 May 2012 18:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Fritillaria persica Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 17:27:24 -0700 I don't know if 'Adiyaman' is a cultivar propagated by tissue culture or cutting, or a seed strain. Certainly F. persica does not offset much. Anyway, about 25 years ago I bought some bulbs under that name that at least looked like the photos (large dark purple flowers on tall stems). I mistakenly planted them in the garden, where they eventually froze to death, but I got seed from them and grew about 5 offspring that all look like the parents. I think it's probably a seed strain. A few years later I bought some more bulbs under this name, but they have small brownish flowers. I planted them in the garden in a hotter spot, and as far as I know they're still there, producing their ugly flowers every year. About 7 or 8 years ago I grew a lot of seedlings from a collection made in Iran by the Archibalds. All of them have flowered, and they are white, or whitish, and not as tall as the dark purple ones. I also have one called the 'Petra form', from the Fritillaria Group (AGS) seed exchange; it has not flowered yet. I saw the species when visiting Petra, but that was in fall and it was not in growth, though I could identify the withered plant growing on a high ledge (where the tourists presumably could not pick it). Jim wanted to know about growing the plants from seed. Just plant them in fall along with other Mediterranean species and keep them cool but not frozen. They should germinate the first year. The seedlings are fairly large and can be moved on after their first season in the seed pot. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sun, 27 May 2012 02:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FC1EF27.10202@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: potting mixes Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 21:08:55 +1200 A few months ago in March, I decided to try out 2 brand name potting mixes. Half of a lot of seedlings were planted in mix A, the rest in mix B. Soon it was obvious the ones in mix B were growing faster, developing a second leaf when the first lot was not doing so. Mix B seedlings were sturdier too. Today I planted them out in the garden. And was amazed at how big the tiny bulbs had grown in mix B, compared with the ones in mix A. And tonight we have a nice lot of rain to give them a good start. I wonder why I never thought of doing that before.... -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From gardenstreet184@yahoo.com Sun, 27 May 2012 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1338144545.49709.YahooMailNeo@web162405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: "C.J. Teevan" Subject: potting mixes Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 11:49:05 -0700 (PDT) Can I learn the names of these A and B mixes?  Any theory why the results varied? ________________________________ From: Ina To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 2:08 AM Subject: [pbs] re potting mixes A few months ago in March, I decided to try out 2 brand name potting mixes.  Half of a lot of seedlings were planted in mix A, the rest in mix B. Soon it was obvious the ones in mix B were growing faster, developing a second leaf when the first lot was not doing so.  Mix B seedlings were sturdier too. Today I planted them out in the garden.  And was amazed at how big the tiny bulbs had grown in mix B, compared with the ones in mix A. And tonight we have a nice lot of rain to give them a good start. I wonder why I never thought of doing that before.... -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand  Zone 10 From santoury@aol.com Sun, 27 May 2012 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF0A50C5D0A659-3900-63A1F@webmail-d151.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: potting mixes Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 14:50:51 -0400 (EDT) Yes, I'd like to know which A and B mixes are - sounds like we all could use some "B"! From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sun, 27 May 2012 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4FC27B5B.2090100@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: potting mixes for bulb seeds Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 07:07:07 +1200 I didn't mention the potting mix names as there would not be the same brands over in California. Nor did I mention which seedlings, as I would possibly have had Alberto breathing fire because of not leaving the seedlings longer in pots. ;-) I germinated the Zephyranthes jonesii seeds on water, then put theseedlings in 2 pots. There can be other variables too of course. One would be that since I started this experiment, I also was told that the fertilisers used in soil-less mixes, starts working from the moment it is put in, so a 6 months fertiliser, if the bag sits in the store for 4 months, has only 2 months fertiliser left. I used Tui's all purpose potting mix which is supposed to be suitable for both inside and outside use. I looked up the properties for Tui's: Potting mixes are made by blending naturally occurring materials including bark, pumice, sand, plant mulch including chicken compost with a mixture of minerals. The material contains a variety of living micro-organisms including bacteria, fungi and protozoa. And Daltons premium potting mix This Premium Potting Mix is a blend of Daltons unique Bark Fibre, CAN Bark Fines, Coco Fibre and Pumice. Containing Osmocote® controlled release fertilisers, Daltons 'Grower's Choice' wetting agent and Osmoform® starter fertiliser, this commercially proven potting mix is perfect for all indoor plants and can also be used in outdoor pots. Trichodry® is added for chemical free disease suppression and improved plant health and vigour. It is Tui's which turned out the better one. It is also the brand which produces iron based snail and slug killer, which is most effective and harmless to birds, pets and children. Ina Crossley On 28/05/2012 2:12 a.m., Gastil wrote: > Hi Ina, > > So... Im in suspense. Which potting mix grew healthier seedling > bulbs? Perhaps the same brands as available in NZ will not be > available in California so may I ask the characteristics of the better > mix? > > I have referred to this page: http://tomclothier.hort.net/page12.html > in the past to look up the properties of seed mix components. In my > limited experiments (very limited), I sowed some in soil-less mix in > pots and some in the ground and the ones in the ground far out grew > the potted ones. But of course there were so many more variables than > just the mix, and my lots were tiny. > > I know you grow a lot of Zephranthes and Habranthus. Were those the > seeds in your experiment? > > Im writing personally as I do not wish to put you on the spot. Any > details are welcome, either by list or privately. > > Thank you, > Gastil -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From jwickham@sbcglobal.net Sun, 27 May 2012 13:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1338149684.13940.YahooMailClassic@web81502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: John Wickham Subject: potting mixes Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 13:14:44 -0700 (PDT) I'm always fascinated to learn about different potting mixes. This year I tested a different approach and seemed to have relatively good results. I sowed a wide variety of seeds in 4" pots. The bottom 3/4 of the pot was filled with a fast draining potting soil with organic material, which I then topped with a soil-less mix of 3 parts perlite and 1 part coir. I then topped the seeds with horticultural sand. I had great germination within certain genera and the seedlings seemed to grow out well. I didn't dig them out, though, to check size. I have always left seed-grown bulbs in their flats or pots for two or three years, but I've been concerned that seeds that germinated the first year wouldn't have nutrients that might be helpful in growing out. In fact, they remain fairly small when kept in a soil-less mix for an extended period of time. Fertilizing is probably necessary...but I'm really bad at remembering to get to that.  I'm hoping this approach grows good-sized bulbs more quickly. --- On Sun, 5/27/12, C.J. Teevan wrote: From: C.J. Teevan Subject: Re: [pbs] re potting mixes To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Sunday, May 27, 2012, 11:49 AM Can I learn the names of these A and B mixes?  Any theory why the results varied? ________________________________ From: Ina To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 2:08 AM Subject: [pbs] re potting mixes A few months ago in March, I decided to try out 2 brand name potting mixes.  Half of a lot of seedlings were planted in mix A, the rest in mix B. Soon it was obvious the ones in mix B were growing faster, developing a second leaf when the first lot was not doing so.  Mix B seedlings were sturdier too. Today I planted them out in the garden.  And was amazed at how big the tiny bulbs had grown in mix B, compared with the ones in mix A. And tonight we have a nice lot of rain to give them a good start. I wonder why I never thought of doing that before.... -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand  Zone 10 From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Sun, 27 May 2012 15:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: potting mixes for bulb seeds Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 21:45:28 +0000 Not to my benefit, I do not sell anything. " Nor did I mention which seedlings, as I > would possibly have had Alberto breathing fire because of not leaving > the seedlings longer in pots." From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun, 27 May 2012 17:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: potting mixes Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 16:45:32 -0700 I always made my own potting mixes from scratch when I lived in the country and had a source of good forest humus, which I added to sharp sand and ground pumice. Now I don't have a forest handy (though I still, unhappily, own the forest, etc.). However, nearby is the "Indoor Garden Depot" which caters, I imagine, to indoor growers of something other than Rex begonias. They carry more than a dozem different kinds of potting soil, and I looked at all the ingredient lists until I found one that had none of the ingredients I dislike (Perlite and bark, in particular). I bought some bags of it and mixed it 2:1 with ground pumice, and it makes a good soil for both seeds and older plants. If you don't mind getting on some kind of DEA (Drug Enforcement Agency) watch list, you should check out these kinds of stores. They have lots of supplies and gadgets that any gardener would need, and an orientation toward organic growing. My neighborhood one has recently branched out into selling native plants, too. Sorry about the pumice; I know our mentioning it makes those in non-volcanic regions unhappy. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Sun, 27 May 2012 17:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <043486BA-2FDA-4625-B963-AEC19E4028BA@gmail.com> From: Steven Subject: potting mixes for bulb seeds Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 10:01:07 +1000 Hi Everyone Playing nice I'n the Sand Pit I hope Ina I know it was just a joke, I'm sure : ) Well I often use a commercial base too. Searls premium, for the more inquisitive ones. I find it excellent, although i don't like water crystals I'n mixes. Then i vary the mix with sand, or perlite, peat etc as i require. The results are excellent, however, because i live I'n a remote area & delivery cost is so extreme, i did an experiment last year with recycled super fine composted green waist mulch comprised of softwood & hardwood, leaf, stem, wood chip etc at the rate three parts chip to one course sand, no fertilizer added, & at the huge risk of disease etc although it was extremely well composted. I used the raw untreated product & the result was astounding, compared to a standard seed raising mix giving me a control average of 60 percent strike & a control growth rate to compare too, my new recycled mix achieved virtually 100 percent strike rate & trippled my controll growth rate over 12 months, with various hippeastrum hybreds, heamanthus & brunsvegia species, geshorizors & crinums. Steven : ) Esk Queensland Australia Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 On 28/05/2012, at 5:07 AM, Ina wrote: > I didn't mention the potting mix names as there would not be the same brands over in California. Nor did I mention which seedlings, as I > would possibly have had Alberto breathing fire because of not leaving > the seedlings longer in pots. ;-) > > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From thorne.fred@gmail.com Sun, 27 May 2012 19:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: "Fred Thorne" Subject: potting mixes Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 18:17:00 -0700 Hi Jane, Could you please define ground pumice? -----Original Message----- From: Jane McGary Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 4:45 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] re potting mixes I always made my own potting mixes from scratch when I lived in the country and had a source of good forest humus, which I added to sharp sand and ground pumice. Now I don't have a forest handy (though I still, unhappily, own the forest, etc.). However, nearby is the "Indoor Garden Depot" which caters, I imagine, to indoor growers of something other than Rex begonias. They carry more than a dozem different kinds of potting soil, and I looked at all the ingredient lists until I found one that had none of the ingredients I dislike (Perlite and bark, in particular). I bought some bags of it and mixed it 2:1 with ground pumice, and it makes a good soil for both seeds and older plants. If you don't mind getting on some kind of DEA (Drug Enforcement Agency) watch list, you should check out these kinds of stores. They have lots of supplies and gadgets that any gardener would need, and an orientation toward organic growing. My neighborhood one has recently branched out into selling native plants, too. Sorry about the pumice; I know our mentioning it makes those in non-volcanic regions unhappy. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From TalkingPoints@PlantSoup.Com Sun, 27 May 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <12629399-D8EB-473F-9D5A-B045DD01AF2D@PlantSoup.Com> From: Nan Sterman Subject: potting mixes Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 20:36:39 -0700 Ina, can you tell us what the contents are for mix A and mix B? that should go a long way towards helping us understand how/why the results are different. Nan in California On May 27, 2012, at 11:49 AM, C.J. Teevan wrote: > Can I learn the names of these A and B mixes? Any theory why the results varied? > > > > ________________________________ > From: Ina > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 2:08 AM > Subject: [pbs] re potting mixes > > A few months ago in March, I decided to try out 2 brand name potting > mixes. Half of a lot of seedlings were planted in mix A, the rest in > mix B. > > Soon it was obvious the ones in mix B were growing faster, developing a > second leaf when the first lot was not doing so. Mix B seedlings were > sturdier too. > > Today I planted them out in the garden. And was amazed at how big the > tiny bulbs had grown in mix B, compared with the ones in mix A. > > And tonight we have a nice lot of rain to give them a good start. > > I wonder why I never thought of doing that before.... > > -- > Ina Crossley > Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From klazina@orcon.net.nz Sun, 27 May 2012 22:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FC2FFCF.2060609@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: potting mixes Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 16:32:15 +1200 I sent an email this morning Nan, with as much information as I could find. Did you see that one? For the rest I would not know the particular quantities used. Incidentally the Tui mix which has done so well, is quite a bit cheaper than the Dalton's one. Ina Crossley On 28/05/2012 3:36 p.m., Nan Sterman wrote: > Ina, can you tell us what the contents are for mix A and mix B? that should go a long way towards helping us understand how/why the results are different. > > Nan in California -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Mon, 28 May 2012 02:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <175A257C-9773-41EA-8C6F-FBDF6DF03502@gmail.com> From: Steven Subject: Geshorizor seedling success : ) Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 18:52:46 +1000 Hi everyone... I know this will interest you Ina as we have some seasonal similarities & you like them... I planted some Geshorizor Inflexa red seeds last spring. I didn't realize at the time they were a winter grower, but i was successful. They grew only a couple of months & shriveled I'n summer. I thought they would not have made bulbs big enough to survive, but this Autumn they have sprouted & grown really fast. I have planted more seed this Autumn & they sprouted I'n the same week but last years have already out grown them by 5cm or more, so i am really happy with the result & now look forward to flowers I'n a few years... Steven : ) Esk Queensland Australia Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 From bgjulian@internode.on.net Mon, 28 May 2012 04:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FC357CA.2030209@internode.on.net> From: B & G Julian Subject: potting mixes Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 20:47:38 +1000 I usually mix my own potting mix as required in batches of 50 litres using a concrete mixer to blend the ingredients of composted hammermill pine bark,coarse washed quartz sand,perlite,dolomite and an 8/9 month slow release fertilizer. This mix is a basic one for both herbaceous perennials,bulbs/corms as well as seeds and I usually have good results for all of these plants. Last August I was potting up Helleborus x hybridus seedlings and had a lapse of concentration which was not noticed until some weeks later when the potted seedlings started to grow,some 1200 tube pots were done at the same time and one of the mixer loads slow release fertilizer was accidentally omitted.The resultant seedlings without fertilizer are now barely half the size of the fertilised potted plants.I will hopefully not do this again.Some years ago I was buying premixed potting mix in 1 cubic metre batches and results were so poor I started to mix my own,much more effective and economical.This is in Tasmania where Winter frosts are -3 C to -4 C degrees and Summers can reach low to mid 30C,hottest was a couple of years ago when disastrous bush fires hit many parts of mainland Australia.Gordon Julian From bgjulian@internode.on.net Mon, 28 May 2012 04:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FC358EE.9060206@internode.on.net> From: B & G Julian Subject: Lachenalia-African beauty series Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 20:52:30 +1000 I grow a varying range of bulbous/cormous plants and would like to know if the African beauty series of Lachenalia set seed,I realise that these are not going to be the same as the parents but if seed is available I would very much like to hear of a source for some of these seeds.Gordon Julian From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon, 28 May 2012 09:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: potting mixes Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 09:11:13 -0700 Fred asked >Could you please define ground pumice? This is the product that is used, where available, in potting soils. It is gray to white pumice (light, airy volcanic rock) that is crushed, or ground, to a size of about 7 mm and smaller. It is sharp and angular, and holds a little moisture. Its pH is very slightly acidic. The kind I buy is not washed; that is, it includes fines down to dust, which I think is good for adding mineral nutrients to the soil. However, you can also buy a washed product that has particles a little larger, and this is often used to mix with composted bark to make a cheap potting mix used for, e.g., trees and shrubs; its advantage is that it can be irrigated almost constantly without much care because it drains so fast, so big nurseries often use it. Unlike Perlite, pumice doesn't rise to the top of the soil, and it is aesthetically superior. We also have scoria, which (here, anyway) is a dark red lava rock that is denser and mostly used for mulch (which is pretty ugly IMHO). One of our top rock gardeners, Loren Russell, is devoted to using scoria dust and small pieces in his alpine mixes and feels it is more nutritive than the white pumice. However, you can't buy small scoria -- Loren has to go and scoop it up from the bottom of the piles where it is stockpiled. An excellent local nursery that grows many alpines, Wild Ginger Farm (co-proprietor Emma Elliott is a PBS member), uses a lot of another product, quarter-ten crushed rock, which is a sharp product containing particles from one-quarter down to one-tenth inch, with the fines washed out. It is an excellent mulch and alpine (and presumably bulb) ingredient, and I recently bought a few yards of it to use as mulch on my rock garden and in the bulb house. Emma and her partner, Truls Jensen, also have innovated using deep propagation flats (very sturdy PVC flats with mesh bottoms, about 5 inches deep, made by the Anderson company) as troughs. These are suitable for small-growing plants that need some protection and extra drainage in our wet climate. They would be suitable for bulbs that don't grow very deep, such as the smaller Fritillaria and some of the small South African species. Because of the huge nursery industry in our area, we can buy almost any ingredient in bulk (and mixed to order if we have a nursery), but I usually buy the white pumice in bags that hold about 4 cubic feet. Not too unwieldy in summer, when the material is dry, but if I buy them in winter, as I did recently, they weigh about 90 pounds and heaving them around is a challenge for someone my size and age. The Timber Press-NARGS book "Rock Garden Design and COnstruction" includes a long, very informative chapter on soils and soil ingredients, by Louise Parsons, which discusses soil chemistry, aeration, and other important topics. Excellent drainage is the Golden Rule of rock gardening, but it's also important for many kinds of bulbs. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From bob.hoel@comcast.net Mon, 28 May 2012 10:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <8B9CDD8C-3A4E-4D06-B4DA-E0A0DDABAB03@comcast.net> From: Robert Hoel Subject: Hippeastrum Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 11:24:39 -0500 Has anyone experimented with the hybridized Hippeastrum, a.k.a., commonly called Amaryllis, of partially (or completely) trimming back the foliage to force more leaf growth and thereby forcing more flower formation? If so, I would be interested in hearing your results? Bob Hoel Elmhurst, IL USA 630-279-8510 From petersirises@gmail.com Mon, 28 May 2012 10:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Hippeastrum Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 17:30:32 +0100 I believe that they may be forced to flower twice a year by giving them a six month growing cycle, - five month growing season and one month rest. I have never tried it, but I don't believe cutting of the leaves would help and it would put extra pressure on the plants resources. Peter (UK) On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Robert Hoel wrote: > Has anyone experimented with the hybridized Hippeastrum, a.k.a., commonly > called Amaryllis, of partially (or completely) trimming back the foliage to > force more leaf growth and thereby forcing more flower formation? > From ds429@comcast.net Mon, 28 May 2012 11:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <000001cd3cfa$138a3e50$3a9ebaf0$@net> From: "Dell Sherk" Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 311 Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 13:48:21 -0400 Dear All, The items listed below have been donated by our members to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 311" in the subject line. Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I don't already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 -$5/ share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer. PLEASE NOTE: CURRENT POSTAL-RATE SCHEMES NECESSITATE OUR PLACING A SURCHARGE ON EACH ORDER FROM PBS BX OFFERINGS. Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org .... If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 6832 Phillips Mill Rd. New Hope, PA, 18938 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Arnold Trachtenberg: SEEDS: 1. Narcissus cantabricus ‘Silver Palate’ (OP) 2. Narcissus “cordubensis?” (OP) 3. Narcussus cantabricus “clusii?” (OP) 4. Narcissus romieuxii “mesathanticus?” (OP) 5. Narcussus romieuxii ‘Julia Jane’ (OP) 6. Narcussus assoanus “minutas?” (OP) 7. Narcussus bulbicodium (OP) 8. Gladiolus maculatus 9. Massonia echinata ex BX 247 10. Cyclamen coum ‘Yayladgi’ (may only be shipped to US members because of CITES regulations) http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CyclamenSpeciesOne#coum  This is a city in  Turkey near the Syrian border. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaylada%C4%9F%C4%B1 From Robin Bell: 11. Small bulbs of Cyrtanthus montanus x C. elatus 12. Small bulbs of Lachenalia, pink ex BX 183 (#21) possible hybrid? From Rimmer de Vries: 13. Seed of Narcissus minor hybs, parents include 'Weebee','Mite', 'Small Talk', etc. 14. Seed of Polyxena ex Silverhill 11152- from BX 240 previously from NARGS 07/08 donated by Mike Slater 15. Seed of Scilla sp? ex collected in Jebl Nusairi, Syria by R&R Wallis- previously donated to RHS LG by Alan Edwards of UK- I treat as tender in an unheated cold frame and they do well so maybe they are not so tender. http://sz0111.wc.mail.comcast.net/service/home/~/IMG_0221-%20scilla%20sp.jpg ?auth=co&loc=en_US&id=434720&part=2 From Jim Waddick: 16. Bulbs of Cyrtanthus hybrids. They seem close to http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CyrtanthusHybrids, but I have lost the label - or maybe these vigorous bulbs 'ate' the label. They are easy to grow, prolific and bloom easily. Color is bright orange red, Bulbs range from 'big blooming size' to mini starts. Mine grow in a sand based mix with irregular fertilizing and do well. Thank you, Arnold, Robin, Rimmer, and Jim !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From msittner@mcn.org Mon, 28 May 2012 11:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <20120528181642.A95F6E8A43@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Item 16 in BX 311 Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 11:09:42 -0700 Could this be Cyrtanthus brachyscyphus? I donated bulbs to the BX a number of years ago and Jim wrote that they did really well for him and he later offered seed of the same to the BX. Mary Sue From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Mon, 28 May 2012 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Item 16 in BX 311 Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 13:34:16 -0500 >Could this be Cyrtanthus brachyscyphus? I donated bulbs to the BX a >number of years ago and Jim wrote that they did really well for him >and he later offered seed of the same to the BX. > >Mary Sue Dear MS and all, No, the brachscaphus are still plugging away. My current donation is a much larger plant and totally different flower form. Check out the wiki pix esp the montanus and sanguineus hybrids. Best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F + From michaelcmace@gmail.com Mon, 28 May 2012 12:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <001801cd3d01$b27f6f10$177e4d30$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Geissorhiza seedling success Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 11:42:55 -0700 Steven wrote: > look forward to flowers I'n a few years Congratulations on your success! You may not have to wait a few years. To my surprise I had two Geissorhiza species bloom this year in the same year the seeds were planted (monanthos and aspera). I don't know if they all can do that, but it was a nice surprise. By the way, the G. monanthos seeds came from BX 291 via Richard Smith (thanks, Richard!), who in turn got them from BX 35 via Mary Sue Ittner (thanks, Mary Sue!). Conservation through cultivation in action. Mike From arnold140@verizon.net Mon, 28 May 2012 13:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <23867245.1653815.1338231563199.JavaMail.root@vznit170126> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 311 Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 13:59:23 -0500 (CDT) Here's a correction on some of the spelling. I'm not surprised Dell had trouble with my scribble. Arnold 1. Narcissus cantabricus ?Silver Palace (OP) 2. Narcissus ?cordubensis?? (OP) 3. Narcissus cantabricus ?clusii?? (OP) 4. Narcissus romieuxii ?mesatlanticus? (OP) 5. Narcissus romieuxii ?Julia Jane? (OP) 6. Narcissus assoanus ?minutus?? (OP) 7. Narcissus bulbocodium (OP) From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon, 28 May 2012 13:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Hippeastrum Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 19:28:39 +0000 You mean trimming the green foliage? It would be like severing a cow's leg to obtain more milk. All the food that will be stored in the bulb when it goes dormant is in the green leaves. During the process previous to dormancy all this food is passed on to the bulb. From john@johnlonsdale.net Mon, 28 May 2012 14:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <01fb01cd3d0c$6f27beb0$4d773c10$@net> From: "John T Lonsdale" Subject: Hippeastrum Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 15:59:46 -0400 Hi Alberto, You wrote "All the food that will be stored in the bulb when it goes dormant is in the green leaves. During the process previous to dormancy all this food is passed on to the bulb." By what mechanism does this happen? Thanks and best, John John T Lonsdale PhD 407 Edgewood Drive, Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA Home: 610 594 9232 Cell: 484 678 9856 Fax: 315 571 9232 Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.edgewoodgardens.net USDA Zone 6b From tim@gingerwoodnursery.com Mon, 28 May 2012 14:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Tim Chapman Subject: Hippeastrum Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 15:46:55 -0500 I believe the original post refers to a process developed by a member of the IBS (sorry forget the name). In order to get a 2nd blooming leaves are cut off then the bulb is unpotted and allowed to dry (forced dormancy). This process can also be used to time bulbs to bloom in off season times for special occasions etc. It supposedly works but obviously will set the bulb back for the following few seasons. Not something to try on rare spp but I guess is fine for the people that buy commercial Hipps as disposable season flowers. I haven't been a member in the IBS for some time but that guy used to post a lot and ran some sort of Amaryllis club in Florida, I sure others could provide more details. Tim Chapman From sevanetz@telus.net Mon, 28 May 2012 15:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <0A6C8A0A1D914B8689F8B6B4CB7378C7@MiniSue> From: Subject: Let me introduce myself Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 14:03:24 -0700 Many thanks. cheers, sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nhu Nguyen" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Let me introduce myself > Hi Sue, > > Welcome to the PBS! > > Mike Mace created a great and very useful wiki page for sources of bulbs. > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Sources > > Otherwise, keep an eye out for our BX. Summer is approaching and there > will > be lots of bulbs available soon. > > Best, > Nhu > > On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 9:43 AM, wrote: > >> We have >> had some trouble in finding dependable bulb suppliers for the choicer >> bulbs, >> that could deliver to us in a timely way, and that would ship to Canada. >> > > From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Mon, 28 May 2012 15:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: Steven Subject: Hippeastrum Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 07:19:46 +1000 Stressing of this type is successful with many ornamental trees & shrubs, but is not so successful with many bulbs. I have plenty of experience with my hippeastrum hybrids being eaten by goats I'n peak seasons & I'n my experience it usually leads to a reduction of or lack of flowers, when this happens. the energy necessary to produce new foliage is is waisted energy that could have been used by the plant for flower production. If you repeated this leaf cutting exercise too many times the bulb will eventually weaken & reduce I'n size & become more susceptible to disease & will be far less likely to flower. There are chemicals that increase flowering & perhaps someone might have experimented with bulbs. I have used chemicals such as bonsai with fantastic success I'n flowering shrubs during the 80s. I'n ornamentals it reduces plant growth but increases the amount of growing tips & greatly increases budding. But the bonsai effect might be too overwhelming for bulbs. Steven : ) Esk Queensland Australia Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 On 29/05/2012, at 2:24 AM, Robert Hoel wrote: > Has anyone experimented with the hybridized Hippeastrum, a.k.a., commonly called Amaryllis, of partially (or completely) trimming back the foliage to force more leaf growth and thereby forcing more flower formation? If so, I would be interested in hearing your results? > > Bob Hoel > Elmhurst, IL USA > 630-279-8510 > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Mon, 28 May 2012 15:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <57FFA518-FD6B-4CC6-A52D-161CD4763EFF@gmail.com> From: Steven Subject: Geissorhiza seedling success Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 07:31:20 +1000 Thanks Mike, its so good to see a BX trail with your Geshorizors. I can't wait until i have G. Inflexa seeds to share, it is the most incredible red, & now I'm excited about trying some others of the species. I saw a beautiful solid blue recently & a cute yellow with curly leaves so I'm looking forward to finding some seeds. Steven : ) Esk Queensland Australia Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 > Steven wrote: > look forward to flowers I'n a few years > > Congratulations on your success! > By the way, the G. monanthos seeds came from BX 291 via Richard Smith > (thanks, Richard!), who in turn got them from BX 35 via Mary Sue Ittner > (thanks, Mary Sue!). > > Conservation through cultivation in action. > > Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon, 28 May 2012 15:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Hippeastrum Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 21:33:40 +0000 Bonzi From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Mon, 28 May 2012 15:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: <9A4D210D-3690-4F29-9918-48C1B1D850C8@gmail.com> From: Steven Subject: Hippeastrum Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 07:51:12 +1000 Bonzi Thanks Alberto, one of the problems with modern spell check, mine remembers the wrong words too & then automatically uses them sometimes & i don't always notice. But I'm sure people will understand what i mean. Have you heard of these chemicals or ever experimented with bulbs your self ? Steven : ) Esk Queensland Australia Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 On 29/05/2012, at 7:33 AM, Alberto Castillo wrote: Bonzi > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon, 28 May 2012 15:17:10 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Hippeastrum Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 22:06:19 +0000 It is widely used for temporarily dwarfing plants for mass pot production. Mums and Christmas Euphorbias are the two best known. It shortens the internodes that in a bulb or corm are within the "bulb" and thus the effect on them is hardly noticeably. People most probably understand that you speak of bonsai techniques in a bulb. From opbungalow@gmail.com Mon, 28 May 2012 21:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: David Maxwell Subject: Rhodophiala splendens: Finally, sweet success! Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 20:50:35 -0700 This afternoon I noticed that one of my Rhodophiala spendens...planted from Chileflora seeds from back in July of '08...had sent up a scape and there was another on the way! Ah, sweet success! And just 2 months shy of the 4 year mark! Patience isn't exactly my strongest virtue...so what was I thinking!? Somehow I doubt they'll give the same satisfaction that Joyce's Habanthus robutus did (in just half the time)...but still, I'm giving myself gold stars 'n' oak leafs for perseverance...and for not killing the damn things over the course of their many repottings & migrations around the yard. Naturalizing a bulb endemic of Chile to a Northern California (Central Valley) climate ain't easy. I tried putting them on the same watering/domancy cycle as my beloved Amaryllis belladonnas, and while their foliage is going dormant...like the belladonnas...they're sending up scapes & going into bloom at the same time as my Habranthus tubispathus, which is fine by me. Even though Alberto said not to, at the end of the summer they're ALL (R. splendens, R.advena, R.bagnoldii, R.phycelloides, R.bakerii & R.montana) goin' in the ground...well, into a bedded mound actually...where they can fend for themselves. I feel that I've had my success...so once they're bedded...it's survival of the fittest...and I'm done with Rhodophiala! ~david (Sacramento, CA) From s.gage100@hotmail.com Tue, 29 May 2012 01:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Shelley Gage Subject: Hippeastrum Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 18:18:43 +1030 Putting the plants in the coldroom until flowering is required allowed us to sell hippeastrum plants in flower out of season.Shelley Gage Queensland. > From: tim@gingerwoodnursery.com > Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 15:46:55 -0500 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] Hippeastrum > > I believe the original post refers to a process developed by a member of the IBS (sorry forget the name). In order to get a 2nd blooming leaves are cut off then the bulb is unpotted and allowed to dry (forced dormancy). This process can also be used to time bulbs to bloom in off season times for special occasions etc. It supposedly works but obviously will set the bulb back for the following few seasons. Not something to try on rare spp but I guess is fine for the people that buy commercial Hipps as disposable season flowers. > > I haven't been a member in the IBS for some time but that guy used to post a lot and ran some sort of Amaryllis club in Florida, I sure others could provide more details. > > Tim Chapman > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From bulborum@gmail.com Tue, 29 May 2012 01:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Hippeastrum Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 09:51:27 +0200 What is the temperature in your coldroom Roland 2012/5/29 Shelley Gage > > Putting the plants in the coldroom until flowering is required allowed us > to sell hippeastrum plants in flower out of season.Shelley Gage Queensland. > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From s.gage100@hotmail.com Tue, 29 May 2012 01:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Shelley Gage Subject: Hippeastrum Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 18:27:33 +1030 It was about 15 years ago but I seem to remember it being somewhere between 5 and 10. The coldroom has a temperature range from -5 to 20 as it is mainly for small crops and is quite large. One day when I go through all the boxes of paperwork I will probably find the details. I imagine the same process would be used for many flowering potted plants. It just halts growing until you want it to resume. We could hold them over for up to 6 months.Shelley Gage Queensland > From: bulborum@gmail.com > Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 09:51:27 +0200 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] Hippeastrum > > What is the temperature in your coldroom > > Roland > > 2012/5/29 Shelley Gage > > > > > Putting the plants in the coldroom until flowering is required allowed us > > to sell hippeastrum plants in flower out of season.Shelley Gage Queensland. > > > > -- > R de Boer > La Maugardiere 1 > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email: bulborum@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From bulborum@gmail.com Tue, 29 May 2012 01:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Hippeastrum Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 09:59:59 +0200 Thanks I will try it Roland 2012/5/29 Shelley Gage > > It was about 15 years ago but I seem to remember it being somewhere > between 5 and 10. The coldroom has a temperature range from -5 to 20 as it > is mainly for small crops and is quite large. One day when I go through all > the boxes of paperwork I will probably find the details. I imagine the same > process would be used for many flowering potted plants. It just halts > growing until you want it to resume. We could hold them over for up to 6 > months.Shelley Gage Queensland > -- R de Boer La Maugardiere 1 F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com From avbeek1@hotmail.com Tue, 29 May 2012 02:17:08 -0700 Message-Id: From: a vbeek Subject: Rhodophiala splendens: Finally, sweet success! Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 08:44:37 +0000 Bought also rhodophiala seeds a month ago from chileflora. Hopefully I don't have to wait for 4 years to see some flowers Already 3 of them R. ananuca, R. phycelloides and R. montana are sprouting. They will always be potted. Don't think they will survive in the ground in the winter. If the frost won't kill them the wet winters in Holland will do it. At least I never succeeded to overwinter a Amaryllis belladonna outdoors, not even when planted 20cm deep. > > And just 2 months shy of the 4 year mark! > > ~david (Sacramento, CA) Aad van Beek From jshields@indy.net Tue, 29 May 2012 07:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20120529082906.00809558@pop.indy.net> From: "J.E. Shields" Subject: Hippeastrum Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 08:33:54 -0400 Hi Roland, Shelley, et al., As I recall, Hadeco in South Africa holds their Hippeastrum hybrid bulbs in a cold room (at 55°F perhaps?) for a period of time before packing and shipping to market -- or perhaps before replanting. I remember being in a cold room full of wood trays of Hippeastrum bulbs on one visit there several years ago. Jim Shields in central Indiana USA ************************************************* Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W From haweha@hotmail.com Tue, 29 May 2012 10:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Hans-Werner Hammen Subject: Hippeastrum Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 16:14:33 +0000 13°Celsius and 55°Fahrenheit respectively, is the optimum temperature for the elongation of the preformed scapes w/in the bulbs. The best results being achieved, if you wait until the scapes poke out. The MINIMUM storage periode depends on the cultivar.Consider that storage makes only sense on bulbs, that are in good condition, round, nice, and firm like a stone. The assumption, you could force a bulb, wait some weeks, then cut the leaves off (or not, it does not matter in THIS case), then store it dry (and cold or not cold respectively) and expect new florets is wishdreams. Even IF it be successful on the first occasion, I have to ask: "And THEN?" Does anybody intend to lethally exhaust a bulb? Btw it is not dryness which "triggers" it is the lower Temperature. WERE I the Emperor of China, and I could afford it, then I would raise the crop in climatized Greenhouses.9 weeks 13°C almost dry but not dry: WITH leaves17 weeks 25°C 9 weeks 13°C almost dry but not dry, WITH leaves 17 weeks 25°C only cutting the oldest leaves. I would have scapes on fully leaved Hippeastrums Twice per Year. ENJOY! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/7398.jpg"Seestern" H.cybister "Chico" x "Pink Floyd" http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/7318.jpg"PapDon1" H.papilio x "Donau" http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/7164.jpg"PapDonAmb2" H.papilio x ("Donau" x "Ambiance") http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/6060.jpg"PapDon2" H.Papilio x "Donau"> Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 08:33:54 -0400 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > From: jshields@indy.net > Subject: Re: [pbs] Hippeastrum > > Hi Roland, Shelley, et al., > > As I recall, Hadeco in South Africa holds their Hippeastrum hybrid bulbs in > a cold room (at 55°F perhaps?) for a period of time before packing and > shipping to market -- or perhaps before replanting. I remember being in a > cold room full of wood trays of Hippeastrum bulbs on one visit there > several years ago. > > Jim Shields > in central Indiana > USA > > > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Lat. 40° 02.8' N, Long. 086° 06.6' W > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Tue, 29 May 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: Hippeastrum Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 17:42:06 +0000 Jim, if you do not provide a low temperature to provoke a dormancy in Hippeastrum bulbs in a very hot climate like the Transvaal they would never go domant and bud elongation will never take place. This is trying to mimmick a natural winter dormancy to stop the bulb and induce to prepare next spring's flowering. On the other hand, providing cool conditions at abnormal periods of the year to obtain flowers at odd times is just another way of forcing them and the bulbs will be pretty disoriented and battered after that. Granted for sellers will ncrease sales but for the buyer it will be a boomerang. From santoury@aol.com Tue, 29 May 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF0BD9D2C4685A-B2C-33F4@webmail-d177.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Hippeastrum Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 13:44:26 -0400 (EDT) Speaking of these, I just got a box of H. Acramannii - I looked it up, and wanted to confirm that it is different from Ackermanii. Thanks in advance Jude From opbungalow@gmail.com Wed, 30 May 2012 08:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: David Maxwell Subject: Rhodophiala: A Nederland Challege! Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 07:51:42 -0700 Aad...I was being a little overly dramatic when I said that naturalizing Rhodophiala in Northern California wasn't easy...'cuz Sacramento is actually Amarylid country; the seasonal temperatures & rainfall make it pretty ideal for all of 'em. Belladonnas grow here...literally...like weeds. In August/September you see them blooming in vacant lots...along the side of roads...people don't seem to pay them much mind. But in the Netherlands...I think you're in for a challenge! With my first plantings (R.splendens, R.advena, R.phycelloides) I planted the seeds in small pots in groups of 3 or 4...like I do with my Hippeastrum...thinking I would repot them in larger pots when the time came. But I learned that this just increased the probability of root damage & loss...so when I bought the R.montana, R.bakerii, etc. seeds, I planted them all (25 or so) in a larger (12" diam.), deep pot...and that's where they've stayed. I experimented with sun exposure by moving all the Rhodophiala pots around my yard and found that while all the others could take full...baking...sun, the R.montana did best in full morning sun...dappled mid-afternoon sun...and full late-afternoon shade and cooler temperatures. And it bloomed in only 2 years! With the others...prepare yourself for a wait...'cuz they all have a relatively short growth cycles...so it takes YEARS for the bulb to grow large enough to bloom. I did a R.bifida (North American variety) bulb swap with a PBS Member in North-Central Texas...and kept them in pots the first couple years...and they struggled. They didn't die, but they also didn't really grow or bloom. Then...in disgust...I planted them directly in the ground in my 'Amarylid Mound'...and they almost immediately bloomed & grew & off-set. They were happy...at last! How can anything as brainless as a bulb know whether it's in a pot...or not? But they do! So that's what I'm basing my decision to plant all the other species of Rhodophiala directly in the ground. It's a potentially sacrificial test...and time will tell which ones will pass. I'll keep y'posted. But perseverere with your own endeavers! I think a lot of it depends on your attitude towards gambling...since unless you have the consultation & advice of someone in your climate zone who has already had success...so much seems to be trial & error...and luck. So it's a good thing seeds are relatively cheap! Who was it in here that said that they considered a plant "hardy" 'til they killed it 3 times? That's the spirit! ~d. When I Bought also rhodophiala seeds a month ago from chileflora. Hopefully I don't have to wait for 4 years to see some flowers Already 3 of them R. ananuca, R. phycelloides and R. montana are sprouting. They will always be potted. Don't think they will survive in the ground in the winter. If the frost won't kill them the wet winters in Holland will do it. At least I never succeeded to overwinter a Amaryllis belladonna outdoors, not even when planted 20cm deep. > > And just 2 months shy of the 4 year mark! > > ~david (Sacramento, CA) Aad van Beek From janemcgary@earthlink.net Wed, 30 May 2012 11:17:07 -0700 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Rhodophiala: A Nederland Challege! Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 10:23:46 -0700 David Maxwell wrote, >How can anything as brainless as a bulb know whether it's in a pot...or not? > >But they do! > >So that's what I'm basing my decision to plant all the other species >of Rhodophiala directly in the ground. FIrst, off topic, can I encourage David and other correspondents to avoid nonstandard spellings and abbreviations in their posts? We happily have many members who read English as a second (or third) language and who won't understand "cuz" for "because," for example. Regarding Rhodophiala bifida, its annual cycle, because of its geographic origin, is very different from that of the western South American species. It enjoys summer moisture, which is why it's a popular hgarden plant in the Southeast of the United States. Finally, in regard to pots vs. open ground for bulbs, I find that most of the larger ones are far better without root restriction. Formerly I had to keep everything in pots, plunged in frames, but now I've moved everything to free growth in raised beds in the new bulb house. I had gradually changed from clay pots to PVC mesh aquatic pots for the larger bulbs, and they did better when then could at least extend their annual roots into the surrounding sand. Now, however, almost every single genus and species that grows taller than 6 inches/15 cm has improved almost beyond imagining. Calochortus are flowering at much greater height and increasing wonderfully. Desert irises are threatening to outgrow their space in two years. I posted earlier on the astonishing response of Notholirion thomsonianum. The taller Ornithogalum species will have to go into the open garden -- there is no room for their leaves. Even some plants that had grown for many years without flowering (e.g., Calochortus striatus) have now flowered two years running. I've dug down to Rhodophiala bulbs in CHile and Argentina to see how they grow, and they are VERY deep in the soil. Mostly they grow in deep sands, such as stabilized dunes or sand deposited by seasonal flooding; I saw R. montana in a soil that was basically cinder. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From richrd@nas.com Wed, 30 May 2012 20:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <777E292D-1AC6-46BD-B7B1-CD1907A17810@nas.com> From: Richard Subject: just for fun Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 19:21:53 -0700 I've been saving closeups of dissected flowers to demonstrate key features for id and future reference. Dichelostemma congesta Triteleia laxa A beautiful checker lily in natural understory habitat of eastern Washington ponderosa pine forest. http://flic.kr/p/c8u8oh A Camassia quamash strain I ran across near Satus Pass, Eastern Washington with striking yellow stamens. Ours in western Washington has pale blue stamens http://flic.kr/p/c8zfx5 Taken with Canon Powershot SX30 IS, just now appreciating it's manual, closeup photography Rich H Bellingham From klazina@orcon.net.nz Thu, 31 May 2012 04:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4FC74916.6050707@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: which potting mixture Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 22:33:58 +1200 Thank you all those who mentioned what they used themselves. I was also asked why one was better than the other. As the Tui potting mix has chicken fertiliser in it, and Dalton's has osmocote, my guess is that the chicken fertiliser gives a big boost but not for long, while Dalton's would be slow release fertiliser, so it all depends on what one wants it for. With my seedlings of Zephyranthes and Habranthus and a few others, it is important to me they grow quickly. So Tui is best for me, but Dalton's would suit better for a permanent container grown bulb. For me store bought soil is preferable. Although I do add sand sometimes. -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Thu, 31 May 2012 06:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: just for fun Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 12:22:56 +0000 Exceptionally useful and graphic. Probably worth a whole section of the wiki for this type of taxonomic visual explanation. From richrd@nas.com Thu, 31 May 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <7BEB4D06-18FC-444C-9749-20E37002C585@nas.com> From: Richard Subject: just for fun Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 10:25:56 -0700 corrected checker lily link On May 30, 2012, at 7:21 PM, Richard wrote: > A beautiful checker lily in natural understory habitat of eastern Washington ponderosa pine forest. > > http://flic.kr/p/c8z3Jd From petersirises@gmail.com Thu, 31 May 2012 11:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: which potting mixture Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 19:08:38 +0100 On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Ina wrote: I was also > asked why one was better than the other. As the Tui potting mix has > chicken fertiliser in it, and Dalton's has osmocote, > Various people in the UK have observed that bulbs grown in compost fed by (Osmocote) slow release granules may go dormant prematurely, and very suddenly. The bulbs being quite healthy for the following winter growing season. It seems that the Osmocote pellets release the fertiliser (?nitrogen ) according to temperature. In the British climate we sometimes have cold weather when winter growing bulbs grow steadily, and intermittent hot spells. The theory is that a hot sunny day in mid spring may cause a flash release of fertiliser from the slow release granules, which 'burns' the roots of the bulbs, -sending them dormant. Peter (UK) From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Thu, 31 May 2012 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <13884265.1338489401145.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Mark Mazer Subject: which potting mixture Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 14:36:40 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > >Various people in the UK have observed that bulbs grown in compost fed by >(Osmocote) Nutricote products work well in container culture. They don't "flash" release. They have superior resin coatings and coating additives. Mark Mazer Hertford, North Carolina USA USDA 8a From petersirises@gmail.com Thu, 31 May 2012 12:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: which potting mixture Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 20:10:03 +0100 I have not heard of Nutricote, it suggests here that it is not available in the UK Peter (UK) On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Mark Mazer wrote: > Nutricote products work well in container culture. They don't "flash" > release. They have superior resin coatings and coating additives. > From markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net Thu, 31 May 2012 13:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <410-22012543119184937@earthlink.net> From: "MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER" Subject: which potting mixture Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 15:18:04 -0400 > > I have not heard of Nutricote, it suggests here that it is not available in > the UK > Peter (UK) > That could be true. Sounds like a business opportunity to me. Mar From meenglis@meenglis.cts.com Thu, 31 May 2012 14:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4FC7D4DA.9060404@meenglis.cts.com> From: Marguerite English Subject: Roy Sachs - a longtime member of PBS passed away this week. Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 13:30:18 -0700 "He touched a lot of people and the man you knew was the man everyone knew. He presented one face and was extremely genuine. There are not many people who had/have as much honesty, integrity, and overall intellect as he did/does ("have/does" are used because that is my spiritual opinion). We all are missing him because there was a daily banter via email and phone with weekly gatherings with him (two to three times was a good week but one was the minimum) with his 5 kids and grandkids (14). This is his obituary which explains a lot of who and what he was about. It was written by his oldest, Kerry Sachs." Roy has been my friend and mentor these past few years. It was a pleasure to know him. Marguerite English From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Thu, 31 May 2012 15:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1338500048.24809.YahooMailNeo@web87406.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: which potting mixture Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 22:34:08 +0100 (BST) Apparently was a Fisons product line but now from http://www.omex.co.uk/horticulture/ProductItem.aspx?id=388 As long as you want a tonne at a time. Maybe we should get together.   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8'ish >________________________________ >From: MARK MAZER AND FREDRIKA MAZER >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Sent: Thursday, 31 May 2012, 20:18 >Subject: Re: [pbs] re which potting mixture > >> >> I have not heard of Nutricote, it suggests here that it is not available >in >> the UK >> Peter (UK) >> > >That could be true.  Sounds like a business opportunity to me. > >Mar > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > From klazina@orcon.net.nz Thu, 31 May 2012 15:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4FC7E54A.9000304@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: which potting mixture Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2012 09:40:26 +1200 Thank you Peter. I didn't know that. As I have settled on Tui, it won't affect my bulbs, but it is good to be able to pass that info on. Ina On 1/06/2012 6:08 a.m., Peter Taggart wrote: > The theory is that a hot sunny day in mid spring may cause a flash > release of fertiliser from the slow release granules, which 'burns' the > roots of the bulbs, -sending them dormant. > Peter (UK) -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Thu, 31 May 2012 16:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: which potting mixture Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 22:26:17 +0000 Here Osmocote used according to instructions a number of years ago made disasters, with thousands of potted shrubs and perennials killed. Exactly as Peter described, but being our spring temperatures higher the sudden fertilizer release of the amounts recommended IN THE BAGS it was a total massacre. The quality of the fertilizer is excellent but quantities suggested, totally inadequate for a warm climate. From klazina@orcon.net.nz Thu, 31 May 2012 16:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4FC7F1F7.50106@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: which potting mixture Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2012 10:34:31 +1200 Thank you Alberto. This is so useful to know. Living in a warmer climate as I do. Ina On 1/06/2012 10:26 a.m., Alberto Castillo wrote: > Here Osmocote used according to instructions a number of years ago made disasters, with thousands of potted shrubs and perennials killed. Exactly as Peter described, but being our spring temperatures higher the sudden fertilizer release of the amounts recommended IN THE BAGS it was a total massacre. The quality of the fertilizer is excellent but quantities suggested, totally inadequate for a warm climate. > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10 From ds429@comcast.net Thu, 31 May 2012 16:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <1241638378.350014.1338503908391.JavaMail.root@sz0111a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> From: ds429@comcast.net Subject: Roy Sachs - a longtime member of PBS passed away this week. Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 22:38:28 +0000 (UTC) This is sad news. Roy had been a member of PBS from it's very beginning and frequently donated alstroemeria seed to the BX. I never had the opportunity of meeting him, but in correspondence, he was wise, articulate, and kind. Dell         ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marguerite English" To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:30:18 PM Subject: [pbs] Roy Sachs - a longtime member of PBS passed away this week. "He touched a lot of people and the man you knew was the man everyone knew. He presented one face and was extremely genuine.  There are not many people who had/have as much honesty, integrity, and overall intellect as he did/does ("have/does" are used because that is my spiritual opinion). We all are missing him because there was a daily banter via email and phone with weekly gatherings with him (two to three times was a good week but one was the minimum) with his 5 kids and grandkids (14). This is his obituary which explains a lot of who and what he was about.  It was written by his oldest, Kerry Sachs." Roy has been my friend and mentor these past few years. It was a pleasure to know him. Marguerite English _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Thu, 31 May 2012 18:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: From: Alberto Castillo Subject: which potting mixture Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 01:04:28 +0000 Yes, Ina, when it was first imported here years ago it was the Magical cure-it-all and several major mass producers added it to the potting mixes of azaleas, hydrangeas and others. But, it was not an experiment: they trusted the manufacturer and used the recommended doses in vast numbers of potted plants . With the first warm spell, apparently all of the fertilizer in the granules was released. Losses were 40,000 azaleas, 30,000 hydrangeas and on and on and on. Safer for us that live in climates where it can get very hot is to crush a few granules and mix the content with the upper layers of the mix/soil. From msittner@mcn.org Thu, 31 May 2012 20:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <20120601023417.2A60DE8B48@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Roy Sachs - a longtime member of PBS passed away this week. Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 19:34:17 -0700 I too feel very sad to learn that Roy has died. He joined us at some of our Northern California meetings and we always enjoyed his company. When I was still a member of IBS, I worked with Roy editing a number of his articles for BULBS and that was a very pleasant experience. He was always curious about the hows and whys of how things grow. I talked him into introducing a topic of the week for us on dormancy of seed and bulbs and it seems a fitting tribute to Roy to give the link for these introductions to all of you who were not participating in our list at that time and as something to reread for those of us who knew him. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/2004-January/h9faepqjul49u7e6ef7angu9e2.html http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/2004-January/098lnbthc53hnfug6nhvdmrp16.html And I found an obituary online. http://www.davisenterprise.com/obits/roy-sachs/ He loved Alstroemeria and found ways to grow it well. On one of our visits he gave me some Tulipa 'Angelique' that was surplus from a wedding of his daughter where he had given some away. It still blooms every year (prechilled for 4-6 weeks in Northern California) and I'm happy to have it as I am reminded of him. Mary Sue From msittner@mcn.org Thu, 31 May 2012 20:17:05 -0700 Message-Id: <20120601023755.7C5F0E8B49@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Alstroemeria question Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 19:37:52 -0700 I got a question about growing Alstroemeria to the PBS website a couple of days ago. I sent it on to Roy Sachs hoping he could help answer it not knowing he had died. So here it is. >The alstroemeria is one of my favorite cut flowers and wish to grow >them in a new perennial bed. When is the best time to plant the >bulbs? Which varieties would be best for Southern Illinois growing >seasons? Which varieties would be growth in full sun? Thank you Would it be possible to grow Alstroemeria in Southern Illinois? Mary Sue From michaelcmace@gmail.com Thu, 31 May 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <010b01cd3fa5$2a3fcb30$7ebf6190$@gmail.com> From: "Michael Mace" Subject: Roy Sachs Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 20:18:06 -0700 Fourteen grandchildren. Good for you, Roy! I was interested to read that he was a longtime professor of landscape horticulture. Roy could have used his credentials to intimidate amateurs like me, but I don't think he ever even mentioned them. Roy helped out generously when we were lobbying the US government not to ban imports of Alstroemeria aurea. He was very skeptical that the government would listen, but he went ahead and submitted information documenting his experience growing and selling the species for years. His information was critical in showing the government that the species was already well established in the country, and not as much of a problem as they thought. Thanks, Roy! From santoury@aol.com Thu, 31 May 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <8CF0DBD064FE3BA-AA8-6BD6@webmail-d172.sysops.aol.com> From: The Silent Seed Subject: Alstroemeria question Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 23:23:19 -0400 (EDT) While I did not know Roy Sachs, that is very sad news, indeed. My heart goes out to his family. In regards to the question; yes, they (at least some) are hardy to S. Illinois. I'm in a colder zone, and some grow here. Hope this helps! Jude From klazina@orcon.net.nz Thu, 31 May 2012 21:17:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4FC83C41.9050307@orcon.net.nz> From: Ina Subject: which potting mixture Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2012 15:51:29 +1200 What a dreadful disaster! Ina On 1/06/2012 1:04 p.m., Alberto Castillo wrote: > Yes, Ina, when it was first imported here years ago it was the Magical cure-it-all and several major mass producers added it to the potting mixes of azaleas, hydrangeas and others. But, it was not an experiment: they trusted the manufacturer and used the recommended doses in vast numbers of potted plants . With the first warm spell, apparently all of the fertilizer in the granules was released. Losses were 40,000 azaleas, 30,000 hydrangeas and on and on and on. Safer for us that live in climates where it can get very hot is to crush a few granules and mix the content with the upper layers of the mix/soil. > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Ina Crossley Auckland New Zealand Zone 10